# horizon on Fasting...



## avit88 (Mar 19, 2012)

Horizon were examining the benefits of prolonged fasting ie 4 days.

They stated that fasting can lower your igf-1 levels which make u produce new cells instead of repairing original ones u already have. High levels of igf-1 make u more likely to get cancer and diabetes. 

They stated that eating a high protein diet causes ur body to keep making new cells instead of repairing new ones.

So my question is- how do us ppl who have been advised to eat lots of protein in order to build muscle get on?!?!?!

Opinions!


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## LittleMissTracy (May 17, 2012)

I forgot that was on tonight, I watched the Ladies Footie !
I'll catch up on that on demand, I eat more protien and the carbs I have are mostly veg. Given the odd cake


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## Will_G (Jan 23, 2012)

I watched the programme tonight (Horizon: Eat, Fast and Live longer) and found it quite interesting at times. I don't think I could do the 3.5 day fast but the plan he followed at the end of the show seemed manageable where he undertook 2 low calorie (5-600/day) days per week. It was a massive amount of weight loss though for 6 weeks (20lb from memory) and I don't think it's sustainable. Ultimately yes he's lowered his various levels but he's also got to a healthier weight. It'd be interesting to check the results of someone who is already fit and compare the results at the end.

The thing that mainly interested me was the cell repair and brain cell creation during the fasting. If one thing worries me in life it's not keeling over of a heart attack but suffering mentally in older age


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

I watched parts of it while doing other things.

I found it really interesting, it's basically what I've unintentionally been doing for the last 3 months. I've been or a diet that some would consider pretty restrictive, not eating if I'm not hungry and not too concerned it I have some days I eat(drink!) more, the ExOH was trying to convince me I needed to eat more.....but don't see the need if you're not hungry.

I calorie counted for the 1st two months just to understand how I was getting on and there were a few days with around 500 calories.

My results? 1st 10lb lost so far with another +- 1 stone to go. i've found it pretty easy going to be honest and quite glad with the 'validation' from Horizon, the loss rate has slowed a little recently but still going in the right direction. I'm sure it's partially as I now weigh >10% less and not so aggressive when it comes to food choices.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I have been intermittent fasting for years...

it's good for you, healthy and what your body is designed to do...

:thumb:


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## Buck (Jan 16, 2008)

Not watched Horizon yet - hope to watch it on iPlayer tonight

I've done this before and you can see pretty quick results for just a little will power (as long as you don't see fasting as an excuse for excess afterwards!)

Key is to keep hydrated and know how to read your own bodies needs and the difference between this and your mental cravings for food which are not real needs.


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## LittleMissTracy (May 17, 2012)

I watched this last night on demand, and BF says he's going to give the 5/2 thing a go. So I'll do it too to support him. But I know that if I have brekkie and nothing else but fluid, I'll be ready to kill someone by tea time. So its porridge in morning and then a salad (and I so hate salads) for tea to make it 500 cals. Starts Monday and Tuesday then I get weighed every Wednesday so see what the results are next week


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

LittleMissTracy said:


> So its porridge in morning and then a salad


How about having bacon and eggs instead? That will stop the hypoglycemia after 4 hours that will make you hungry to the point of not being able to think of anything else.


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

If you watch at the 50 minute mark he has bacon and eggs and strawberries, typically low carb, low GI dense nutrition. 

All of the cut scenes show donuts, sugary drinks, fast food (all typically high carb, high GI stuff) I don't know if I am reading too much into that though.


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

Article HERE


> ...There are no firm rules because so far there have been few proper human trials. I found that I could get through my fast days best if I had a light breakfast (scrambled eggs, thin slice of ham, lots of black tea, adding up to about 300 calories), lots of water and herbal tea during the day, then a light dinner (grilled fish with lots of vegetables) at night...


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## archiebald (Sep 7, 2009)

Steve Jobs famously fasted for years, ultimately the extremes of his fasting and dietary whims aided the onset of cancer. Needless to say fasting is not for me.


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## LittleMissTracy (May 17, 2012)

Its a working day and I usually do my porridge the night before, and don't want to be cooking first thing. Porridge is a slow release carb and sometimes don't have my dinner till 2 onwards and can cope ok. However I was thinking tuna salad in the evening but now I'm thinking bacon salad instead as I sometimes have bacon, egg, mushrooms and tomatoes for my dinner which does me well till my tea. 
There is no way I could go all day without grub, I've gone hypoglycimic once before going on a hyke, never again if I can help it.


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## Will_G (Jan 23, 2012)

empsburna, so do you believe that the weight loss and the gains in health are down to ketosis as per what happens on the low carb diets? Its just interesting that they mentioned diets high in protein earlier in the programme when describing about the body being 'go-go'

EDIT:


archiebald said:


> Steve Jobs famously fasted for years, *ultimately the extremes of his fasting and dietary whims aided the onset of cancer*. Needless to say fasting is not for me.


What complete tosh! The programme showed the link with the fasting and reduced levels of IGF-1 which contributes to the increased growth of existing cancer cells


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

Will_G said:


> empsburna, so do you believe that the weight loss and the gains in health are down to ketosis as per what happens on the low carb diets? Its just interesting that they mentioned diets high in protein earlier in the programme when describing about the body being 'go-go'
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> What complete tosh! The programme showed the link with the fasting and reduced levels of IGF-1 which contributes to the increased growth of existing cancer cells


I believe the benefits are coming from lowering and keeping blood glucose levels stable and a side effect is weight loss. (I think that is what they were hinting at looking at what they were eating).

None of those problems manifest themselves when insulin is not present: I think that is what it fixes.


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

archiebald said:


> Steve Jobs famously fasted for years, ultimately the extremes of his fasting and dietary whims aided the onset of cancer. Needless to say fasting is not for me.


Really? New to me. Have you got a source as I can't find anything.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

archiebald said:


> Steve Jobs famously fasted for years, ultimately the extremes of his fasting and dietary whims aided the onset of cancer. Needless to say fasting is not for me.





Will_G said:


> What complete tosh! The programme showed the link with the fasting and reduced levels of IGF-1 which contributes to the increased growth of existing cancer cells





empsburna said:


> Really? New to me. Have you got a source as I can't find anything.


He refused "mainstream" treatment for years, opting instead for less well know help, including fasting, vegan diets, acupuncture, herbal remedies and even a psychic...

:thumb:


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## LittleMissTracy (May 17, 2012)

No one has a crystal ball, I could get hit by a bus tomorrow attitude but plan that I'll live till I'm going to get to my 70's.
I've had weight issues since I left school so I don't mind shaking things up a bit to keep it interesting.


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

LittleMissTracy said:


> Its a working day and I usually do my porridge the night before, and don't want to be cooking first thing. Porridge is a slow release carb and sometimes don't have my dinner till 2 onwards and can cope ok. However I was thinking tuna salad in the evening but now I'm thinking bacon salad instead as I sometimes have bacon, egg, mushrooms and tomatoes for my dinner which does me well till my tea.
> There is no way I could go all day without grub, I've gone hypoglycimic once before going on a hyke, never again if I can help it.


What goals do you have?


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## jonnyMercUK (Apr 19, 2012)

Seriously though, I don't get this at all. I'm in the opinion of 'because someone has said it, and made a program on it, we should all do it, I don't think so.


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## Ric (Feb 4, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> He refused "mainstream" treatment for years, opting instead for less well know help, including fasting, vegan diets, acupuncture, herbal remedies and even a psychic...
> 
> :thumb:


Indeed, it wasn't his fasting what caused his death it was his unwillingness to accept treatments and insisted herbal treatments would suffice.

It's all in his autobiography.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

jonnyMercUK said:


> Seriously though, I don't get this at all. I'm in the opinion of 'because someone has said it, and made a program on it, we should all do it, I don't think so.


don't know about the others, but as I stated, I've been doing it for years...

and the body was designed for feast and famine....

and plus... what is the point of TV shows, threads and posts if people don't think about it, and try things out... a bit like detailing... eh... 



:thumb:


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## LittleMissTracy (May 17, 2012)

jonnyMercUK said:


> Seriously though, I don't get this at all. I'm in the opinion of 'because someone has said it, and made a program on it, we should all do it, I don't think so.


Like this site :lol:
Get this product it's awesome.:lol:

I love food, but I get fat easy.
I also get bored with repartition so like to try different things. I think my body is ok with that. I follow weight watchers and have been really successful but I can find it boring so I like to hear of different ways to help my weight loss keep going. So far I have done the blend you meals into a soup for a week 3 times successfully, gone vegan for lent, eat not processed food for a week a few times, and everytime I always go back to my weight watchers plan so I don't put any weight I lose back on. 
If you can eat what you want without any ill effects, great. But if your like me, I can't. I know girls that eat twice as much as me and don't gain an ounce and do less activity. It is what it is.


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## jonnyMercUK (Apr 19, 2012)

The Cueball said:


> and plus... what is the point of TV shows, threads and posts if people don't think about it, and try things out


For once Cuey, I agree with you (only because you nicked what I said from the other thread!  )

It has been put out there for people to think about, having 8 meals a day, I wouldn't like to think about eating less than 600cals!


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## jonnyMercUK (Apr 19, 2012)

LittleMissTracy said:


> Like this site :lol:
> Get this product it's awesome.:lol:
> 
> I love food, but I get fat easy.
> ...


I am similar to be honest, I love food and put weight on quite easily. It's only been these past few months though where I have a controlled diet and training plan and put a great amount of effort in to lose weight.

If it takes this amount of effort then like you said it is what it is, I know I feel much better in the way I look now than I did before.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

jonnymercuk said:


> for once cuey, i agree with you (only because you nicked what i said from the other thread!  )




:thumb:


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

LittleMissTracy said:


> ...I follow weight watchers and have been really successful...


Is that the new points system?


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## horico (Jul 17, 2010)

IF must work as its in this months muscle and fitness! I was meant to cancel my subscription as its full of crap and I haven't read one for months but jumped on it when I was 'less informed'. I had to chuckle hen they completely debunked what they have been spouting for years, such as regular meals and even setting an alarm at 4 am to glug on a shake, casein of course!!

Hopefully, the plethora of other gym / nutrition related dogma will go a similar way.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

archiebald said:


> Steve Jobs famously fasted for years, ultimately the extremes of his fasting and dietary whims aided the onset of cancer. Needless to say fasting is not for me.


I know someone who ate an apple a day and died of cancer........whatever you do please don't eat an apple a day.......it causes cancer! :wall:


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## LittleMissTracy (May 17, 2012)

empsburna said:


> Is that the new points system?


Yep  pro points, but I started on the original points system. Done filling and healthy this week for a change, so see later if it is as good as the pro points


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

LittleMissTracy said:


> Like this site :lol:
> Get this product it's awesome.:lol:
> 
> I love food, but I get fat easy.
> ...





jonnyMercUK said:


> I am similar to be honest, I love food and put weight on quite easily. It's only been these past few months though where I have a controlled diet and training plan and put a great amount of effort in to lose weight.
> 
> If it takes this amount of effort then like you said it is what it is, I know I feel much better in the way I look now than I did before.


I've got to say, I don't think anyone gets "fat" quicker or easier than others...

The issue I have with any diet is that they are all restrictive... by their very nature you have to give up something to be on them... and as humans all know, as soon as someone says "you can't" it becomes harder and harder to let go... 

Now, I'll be the first to admit I have a 'strange' view on things, and as I said before jonny, I wasn't having a go at you, I do actually enjoy talking about this kind of thing... but here goes (and this may just work for me):

There are 3 important things for me.

1) control my blood sugar level
2) use my muscles, often and with large compound exercises
3) Moderation - food, drink, exercise… everything

now there are other rules, like as little processed food as possible, no cakes, sweets etc... and generally move more (walk more, take stairs etc), but the 3 above seem to be the most important things for me.

Now with that being said… I still enjoy a beer and some "[email protected] food" every now and again… why not… you have to live! :lol:

In my honest opinion…. And bearing in mind that we (globally) have been hammered for decades about "low fat" and "diets" etc… people are still getting fatter and unhealthier… something is very wrong with the so called "expert" advice being handed out - maybe spend some time looking at who and where this advice comes from, and who pays to have it out there.... 

When I talk to people, and try and help them… normally they don't have a clue about what they are actually eating, or how much… nor do they know about the hidden sugars contained in "low fat" foods… and lastly they (sometimes grossly) over estimate the amount of exercise they do.

The amount of people I know that go food shopping when hungry for example is shocking… then they fill up their trolly with crap, quick release BS foods… and yet wonder why that 1 bag of salad doesn't mean they lose 6 stone a week….



Maybe the most important thing though, is to keep trying and to keep trying to find whatever works best for you… and believe me, this means that it shouldn't feel like hard work… it should be natural…

That is all (IMO) of course...

:thumb:


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## jonnyMercUK (Apr 19, 2012)

I think it was mentioned in a previous thread but a diet shouldn't be a diet, it should be more of a lifestyle change. I enjoy eating healthy, it doesn't mean I'm on a diet.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

The Cueball said:


> The amount of people I know that go food shopping when hungry for example is shocking… then they fill up their trolly with crap, quick release BS foods… and yet wonder why that 1 bag of salad doesn't mean they lose 6 stone a week….


Nightmare scenario......get home, nothing to eat...go shopping hungry!

I was at a Soup and Salad restaurant in Houston, a BIG American I was with took me there as he was on a 'diet'........he put little more than a couple salad leaves and cherry tomatoes on his ashet plate and literally ladled on mayo, thousand island, this, that & the next sauce on...only broken up with layers of cheese to make the biggest 'salad' i've seen in my life......to go with the cauldron plate of soup with 1lb of cheese, croutons and cream on top.....then proceeded to say he could not understand why he was not losing weight :lol:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

jonnyMercUK said:


> I think it was mentioned in a previous thread but a diet shouldn't be a diet, it should be more of a lifestyle change. I enjoy eating healthy, it doesn't mean I'm on a diet.


agree 100%...

You should enjoy eating and being healthy! :lol:

:thumb:


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

LittleMissTracy said:


> Yep  pro points, but I started on the original points system. Done filling and healthy this week for a change, so see later if it is as good as the pro points


What is on the list? I've never examined that.

I think they are coming round to the idea that a calorie is not a calorie.

Would you be willing to try a limited carbohydrate plan for a week?


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

jonnyMercUK said:


> I think it was mentioned in a previous thread but a diet shouldn't be a diet, it should be more of a lifestyle change. I enjoy eating healthy, it doesn't mean I'm on a diet.


Totally.

But what is healthy? Who do you believe? Is what you are being told correct?


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## jonnyMercUK (Apr 19, 2012)

empsburna said:


> Totally.
> 
> But what is healthy? Who do you believe? Is what you are being told correct?


I don't believe anyone, I do what is best for me. I have one 'cheat' meal a week whether it be pizza, maccy ds - just whatever I fancy. The rest of the week I eat my veg, salad, chicken, eggs, fruit and drink a good amount of water each day.


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## LittleMissTracy (May 17, 2012)

empsburna said:


> What is on the list? I've never examined that.
> 
> I think they are coming round to the idea that a calorie is not a calorie.
> 
> Would you be willing to try a limited carbohydrate plan for a week?


WW calculate the points using protien, carbs, fat and fibre. No cal counting, as for a list, there isn't one, everything has a points value and you are allocated a daily points allowance with an additional weekly 49

To be fair, I'm on limited carbs, I have prorridge, veg and fruit in my diet. I don't have bread, pasta, only have a little rice as I usually end up choking on the stuff and don't eat potatoes as a rule.
In saying that on a Wednesday evening I will have a treat of some sort after being weighed, tonight I'm making Raspberry and White Choc muffins, I'll take whats left into work tomorrow.


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## jonnyMercUK (Apr 19, 2012)

Actually I can't say I don't believe anyone, because that isn't true. My training partner is a nutritionist, he has supplied me with various different options, i've stuck to the one that is best for me.

Also, along similar lines, I have read articles regarding GI tables and other things, tried them, some work, some don't.


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## jonnyMercUK (Apr 19, 2012)

LittleMissTracy said:


> WW calculate the points using protien, carbs, fat and fibre. No cal counting, as for a list, there isn't one, everything has a points value and you are allocated a daily points allowance with an additional weekly 49
> 
> To be fair, I'm on limited carbs, I have prorridge, veg and fruit in my diet. I don't have bread, pasta, only have a little rice as I usually end up choking on the stuff and don't eat potatoes as a rule.
> In saying that on a Wednesday evening I will have a treat of some sort after being weighed, tonight I'm making Raspberry and White Choc muffins, I'll take whats left into work tomorrow.


FOR ME these things are ok, obviously not having huge amounts every day:

Sweet potato, wholemeal bread, brown rice.

Pasta and white bread are a no no for me.


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## LittleMissTracy (May 17, 2012)

The Cueball said:


> I've got to say, I don't think anyone gets "fat" quicker or easier than others...
> 
> :thumb:


Parden the pun, but one size doesn't fit all. I stopped drinking alcohol over 2 years ago as its detramental to my body and weight.
And also I as I've mentioned, I know girls who eat more than me and don't exercise and don't gain. A girl I work with has pizza (her fav) 3 times a week, plus an Itallian meal out plu 2 to 3 bottles of plonk! Perfect 10 she is.


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

jonnyMercUK said:


> Actually I can't say I don't believe anyone, because that isn't true. My training partner is a nutritionist, he has supplied me with various different options, i've stuck to the one that is best for me.
> 
> Also, along similar lines, I have read articles regarding GI tables and other things, tried them, some work, some don't.


Does he work for the NHS?

You are right though, finding something that works for you is key.


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

LittleMissTracy said:


> Parden the pun, but one size doesn't fit all. I stopped drinking alcohol over 2 years ago as its detramental to my body and weight.
> And also I as I've mentioned, I know girls who eat more than me and don't exercise and don't gain. A girl I work with has pizza (her fav) 3 times a week, plus an Itallian meal out plu 2 to 3 bottles of plonk! Perfect 10 she is.


My theory on that is that some people can handle carbohydrate better than others. (for now!) As soon as they start to become insulin resistant in later life it will get harder for them (middle age spread).


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## LittleMissTracy (May 17, 2012)

empsburna said:


> My theory on that is that some people can handle carbohydrate better than others. (for now!) As soon as they start to become insulin resistant in later life it will get harder for them (middle age spread).


Insulin resistant, what does that mean?


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

LittleMissTracy said:


> Insulin resistant, what does that mean?


it means that your body doesn't produce insulin properly, which effects your blood sugar levels...

I normally don't link Wiki, but this one is quite a good detail:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_resistance

:thumb:


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## LittleMissTracy (May 17, 2012)

The Cueball said:


> it means that your body doesn't produce insulin properly, which effects your blood sugar levels...
> 
> I normally don't link Wiki, but this one is quite a good detail:
> 
> ...


Thats a lot of reading


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## archiebald (Sep 7, 2009)

My source was the only book he authorised on himself entitled Steve Jobs. His diet was so famously devoid of protein that some experts cited the rigours of fasting and his dietary ideas may have stressed the body. 

Also another star who tried fasting after diagnosis of cancer was Barry Sheene. He shunned medical views to fast after meeting a guru. Needless to say I will maintain my stance on fasting as both of those arent on anyone's Christmas card list anymore


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

Didn't see it, but it's no use to me anyway...


....I'm on medication which relies on the congestion of food to allow it to be absorbed over the designated time period :thumb:


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2012)

archiebald said:


> My source was the only book he authorised on himself entitled Steve Jobs. His diet was so famously devoid of protein that some experts cited the rigours of fasting and his dietary ideas may have stressed the body.


Wow, interesting. I'm surprised he lasted so long if this is true. Thus, I suspect the book is not quite as factual as it pretends to be - or, at best, is glossing over the fine detail.



archiebald said:


> Also another star who tried fasting *after* diagnosis of cancer was Barry Sheene. He shunned medical views to fast after meeting a guru. Needless to say I will maintain my stance on fasting as both of those arent on anyone's Christmas card list anymore


I've highlighted the important word. I'm sure Steve Jobs moved to fasting post diagnosis too.

I've done quite a bit of reading on fasting, as I use Intermittent Fasting myself. I've not encountered any evidence stating that fasting will promote the onset of cancer.

Of course, your view is your view and I have no issues with that :thumb:


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