# What steps can we take now?



## stevie_b (Dec 14, 2005)

I’ve been reading this section of the site with great interest as it was something I hadn’t really given much thought until now…

I’d pretty much put myself in the middle of the road when it comes to detailing. I use the two bucket method, have a wash mitt or two and even have a PC not that I’ve used it very much! I like to keep our two cars clean but I’ll be first to admit I am not the greatest and currently they are pretty swirly (hopefully not too many inflicted by me but the previous owners/garages!). Although this will be fixed in the future. I guess I’m saying I like our cars to be clean but as they are both daily drivers I don’t have the time or inclination to spend a lot of time getting them 100%...

It’s pretty clear that at the moment, to me at least, that there aren’t completely eco-friendly alternatives to each part of the cleaning routine. And what is out there at the moment raises more questions than it answers (waterless washes for example…). Add in the factor that people as a whole are change-adverse and I think making a major step change, to the tried and tested methods used for however long, can be too much as a start point. Indeed making too big a step usually leads to failure whereas making small changes over time works more effectively and returns better results in the long term. I would also say that apart from the steam cleaning threads (which have been great) I haven’t seen any really good, practical and realistic suggestions to change our current processes.

So I guess what I am trying to say/ask is rather than making these big steps into the currently unknown what can we start doing now to reduce our water usage/runoff/electric usage etc? This is with the average person washing their car at home (i.e. me!) Do we know how much water we are using to wash our car? Is it the motoring equivalent of boiling the whole kettle of water just to make one cup of tea? Is it better to use a hosepipe with a shut off or a pressure washer on the car? I know the pressure washer goes through more litres of water per minute but is this negated by the fact that you use it less? How many litres of water do we use in our wash and rinse buckets? Do we need to have so much? I’ve seen the results of using the two bucket method but can you get same or similar results from one bucket with a grit guard in? 

As mentioned above I’ve seen the results from the steam cleaner threads and was so impressed I have bought one myself. So far I’ve used it only inside the car and around the flat but it works well. I am going to try it on my wheels as both our cars have multi-spoke alloys which are an absolute pig to clean! I’ll give it a go on the arches as well, maybe even the glass. But where else can it be used? Tar spot removal? Sills? Paintwork even or is that a step to far?

One bit I am still unsure on is the regulations listed for professionals. Do they also apply to us amateurs? If so, from what I’ve read, should we be capturing the run-off in one of the catch mat things and disposing of it down our sinks/toilets or elsewhere? If we should how much do the mats cost? Is there another way we can cheaply and effectively capture the run-off?

It’s a lot of questions I know, it may just be my ramblings but thought it may be worth bringing it all up?


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

stevie_b said:


> I've been reading this section of the site with great interest as it was something I hadn't really given much thought until now…
> 
> I'd pretty much put myself in the middle of the road when it comes to detailing. I use the two bucket method, have a wash mitt or two and even have a PC not that I've used it very much! I like to keep our two cars clean but I'll be first to admit I am not the greatest and currently they are pretty swirly (hopefully not too many inflicted by me but the previous owners/garages!). Although this will be fixed in the future. I guess I'm saying I like our cars to be clean but as they are both daily drivers I don't have the time or inclination to spend a lot of time getting them 100%...
> 
> ...


First of all Stevie. You have some amount of question. :lol:

But here we go.
Washing my car. Dependant of the condition and volume of dirt. Dictates to my what wash I carry out. I have been getting braver on the Spray product I have been using. But I personally feel I am getting to this products limits, as in leaving a Mar free finish. Yes I could apply more product this would help in the safe removal of crap. But like everything else takes time one to learn the process and the product. So you can get the most from it. I might try and push this a bit further as no doubt there will be question in the future. But we will see, after all its my car and I have to live with the consequences.

On the ONR detail where I used the steamer to clean my wheels arches. Windows, carpets, then washed the car I used 21 Litres of water. Well less really. But not much.

I have in the past also used ONR with one bucket, very successfully. In turn saving more water. I do not follow the You tube videos. With the ONR wash. By having water all over the place. I try and squeeze my sponge out so that it has some water, within. Before applying to the car. So 1 BM is 12 Litres. If 2 BM the I add an other 6 to 8 Litres.

With the steamer I completed the detail with filling the steamer 3 times. But has water left from my last fill.

If you are considering saving water then these options are viable and should save the use of a PW.
On the law Scotland had a total zero tolerance ban on water and chemicals entering the water table or storm drains. But either Pro or Amateur. Simple.
England and Wales Have a law that just affects Professional vehicle cleaners. In that they need to either use catchment mats or be in house where there water is again stored in a tank for collection or connected to a main sewer. By permission of the water board.

Back to steaming as this is where I have been concentrating and I must say glad people have taken the challenge themselves and purchased units. I have used this on a number of areas as mentioned before. But the closes I have got to my paint work with it was simply cleaning panel gaps and spaced under light and so forth. I so far have not used this on my paint directly.

If there Is anything you are not clear on Just ask and I will help if I can.
Gordon.


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Great helpful post there, Gordon :thumb:

Can I just take this opportunity to thank you, Damon and the other guys who have contributed recently, for putting a lot of time and effort into this section of the site - it's greatly appreciated, guys


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Good question...

My first step was to use ONR when the car wasnt too filthy. ONR is a simply a shampoo that doesnt need any rinsing off afterwards, so means you save a step and some water etc when finishing off. Nothing to stop you pre-rinsing as needed, and I have done when the car has serious debris on it. One HUGE advantage of no rinsing is that you can wash and dry the car panel by panel in the sun, and avoid water spotting. I washed, clayed then rewashed my dark red Audi today in FULL sun and hot panels and didnt get any water spotting, as well as the obvious lower water use. ONR also leaves a finish like a QD with a lovely gloss and slickness. I have actually found that there are VERY few situations when I actually need to pre-rinse my car when using ONR either, and I am typically reducing my water usage to a max of 10-12L per wash, instead of the 150+L typical of a PW, foam and rinse process. Thats before you even consider the waste run-off 

The other easy step is simply to use rain water for all washing. I have a couple of tanks with 2000L of rain water in them, and I use that for all washing - FREE and also much softer than my tap water, so gives better results especially in the summer :thumb:

Finally, and this requires a tad more effort, is to ditch the worst chemicals that are lethal in the environment and/or harmful to YOU eg Tardis and other nasty solvent based products and wheel cleaners. The new regs that apply to all chemical products mean that they need to have clear labelling on all bottles if they contain any ingredients that are harmful. My suggestion would be to avoid anything with the various harmful labels on them  I rarely use a wheel cleaner any more unless the car is very poorly kept and I cant use steam. Products like BH Surfex are superb water based degreasers and can replace most of the nasty chemicals widely used in the valeting process. It will even do a reasonable job on tar if you give it some time and a little elbow grease, and clay will usually remove whatever is left. I have yet to have to go back to any solvent based cleaning products since committing to move to a eco-friendly detailing approach.

Of course its never black and white, as products like ONR are sourced from the US, so have a carbon footprint of their own. Truth is MOST of what we use is imported anyway, so the impact is very small IMHO. I am also convinced that the manufacturing process of something like Tardis, combined with the harmful nature of the product for me AND the environment, still makes it far worse than the impact of importing a bulk load of ONR...

Hope that gives you some ideas. I have started in this area and am far from having all the answers. I sincerely hope that this section of the forum can help us investigate more options and ideas and allow those of us that want to work in this way to move forward step by step. :thumb:


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Pit Viper said:


> Great helpful post there, Gordon :thumb:
> 
> Can I just take this opportunity to thank you, Damon and the other guys who have contributed recently, for putting a lot of time and effort into this section of the site - it's greatly appreciated, guys


Thank PV that means a lot. From someone of your standing. :thumb:


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

caledonia said:


> Thank PV that means a lot. From someone of your standing. :thumb:


It's well deserved, Gordon :thumb: Yourself and Damon in particular deserve all the credit for your efforts in this particular area of detailing. I know there are other worthy contributers in this section but you two are the driving force behind it :thumb:


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Pit Viper said:


> Great helpful post there, Gordon :thumb:
> 
> Can I just take this opportunity to thank you, Damon and the other guys who have contributed recently, for putting a lot of time and effort into this section of the site - it's greatly appreciated, guys


with all the cr4p that keeps coming up here, its very appreciated to get some positive feedback 

cheers matey - now get that lovely car ready for May so the MG can kick your butt at James' meet


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

I would not like to judge that one.
Both fantastic examples and a credit to both of you.

I hear the winner gets a waterless wash. 

So that was my negative moment.


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## stevie_b (Dec 14, 2005)

Thanks guys for the replies! Apologies for all the questions in one job lot!! Once I started I couldn't stop.

I'd seen ONR being mentioned before but never really looked at it before. The idea of using very little water, being able to go one panel at a time and not having water spots very much appeals! From an eco point of view and a laziness one  So a bottle of that is on order!

There's nowhere to safely put a water butt to catch rain water unfortunately otherwise I would do that. But with the ONR I hope I shouldn't need to do too many washes with anything else.

Will see how I get on, along with the steamer and report back 

Thanks again.


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