# The Hot Water debate



## King Eric (Feb 27, 2006)

Now. I would love to have a hot water pressure washer, I've even toyed with the idea of having a hot tap installed from the house to the garage. But its too far really...

I notice Clark uses hot PW water for the clean process, so maybe he can comment on the benefits etc?

I get totally fed up dragging buckets of hot water to the car and want hot water for my wash procedure...

But is hot water really needed? Does it actually benefit the washing procedure?

One idea I have had is to install a tea-urn, fill it when I need to and just switch it on prior to washing the car...then drawing the water from there. And if needs be decanting into a large barrel and drawing straight into the Karcher in that way

But is it worth the hassle?

Any thoughts?


----------



## 306chris (Jan 27, 2007)

I've used really hot water for washing (almost to hot to get your hand in the bucket) and it seemed make the cleaning easier and make the wash solution feel more lubricated. I would have to do it a few more times in different weather conditions to make any conclusions. 

I would like to hear clarks input on this. 

It is a pain in the jacksie to get a HW supply outside though. I end up boiling kettles and taking water from the hot tap (I do use 30l buckets though).

Can't say about using a HW PW.


----------



## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

I started using hot water as it was winter and my little hands would get cold lol

But it does seem to clean that little bit better, although the only downside is it can dry a bit quicker on the paint due to it evaporating.


----------



## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

a few years back zmol said on their site that you should use water thats "outside temperature" so it didnt "shock" (their words not mine) he paint and harm the finish!


----------



## King Eric (Feb 27, 2006)

panama said:


> a few years back zmol said on their site that you should use water thats "outside temperature" so it didnt "shock" (their words not mine) he paint and harm the finish!


BOO!!!!!

<Hiding from behind a ***** wash bucket>

Sorry could not resist. I sort of see why that might be the case-maybe thats so as to not change the temp of the paintwork and then do something to the dirt particles?


----------



## 306chris (Jan 27, 2007)

panama said:


> a few years back zmol said on their site that you should use water thats "outside temperature" so it didnt "shock" (their words not mine) he paint and harm the finish!


didnt know you could wash with ice :lol: roll on summer


----------



## Ollie_247 (Mar 18, 2007)

ive always clean my car with a hot bucket of water, wonder what it would be like with a hot water PW


----------



## morebeanz (Jun 13, 2006)

Maybe I'm over-simplifying, but we wash everything in hot water - why are cars any different?


----------



## cdti_sri (Jul 17, 2006)

From my experience of using the hot PW at the dealers it does seem to rinse that bit more dirt BUT without having done a side by side comparison it is not really a fair test. The only thing I will say is that for wheels and arches and on the odd occasion engine bays it does seem to shift the heavy greasy dirt better.


----------



## Andyuk911 (Sep 10, 2006)

I have a hot pw ... I don't really use it on my RS4 ... Also it kills foam ... so the water needs to be cool/cold ...

On another car 94 clio, does not seem to have done it much harm ...


----------



## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

I've owned both hot and cold and to be honest there is not much difference between the two, and personally I'm of the opinion that the most important variable in the wash equation is the pre-wash chemical.


----------



## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

One thing to consider... does using hot water have any detrimental effect on wax protection?


----------



## King Eric (Feb 27, 2006)

dominic84 said:


> I've owned both hot and cold and to be honest there is not much difference between the two, and personally I'm of the opinion that the most important variable in the wash equation is the pre-wash chemical.


Yes this is very true. My pre-wash involves at least three forms of chem followed by wash...be it APC, snow foam etc....



Engine_Swap said:


> One thing to consider... does using hot water have any detrimental effect on wax protection?


Good question...maybe one for Dave KG's guides! :buffer:


----------



## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Engine_Swap said:


> One thing to consider... does using hot water have any *detrimental* effect on wax protection?


oooooh. small words i can understand please mate.:thumb: :lol:


----------



## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

I have always thought you should use luke warm to warm water only as it can effect the wax or worst case the paint.

Saying that most cars bonnets get really hot and seem fine.

Cheers

PaulN


----------



## Guest (Mar 18, 2008)

I have recently begun to use hot water through my pressure washer. IMHO, it does improve the pre-wash process by helping to remove more of the road film (greasy residue) before needing to resort to a mechanical wash.

Even at low pressures and using chemical injection with AB SSF (I've a Karcher HD 5/11) I can clean a mildly dirty car without needing a washmitt/grout sponge. This really is to the point that drying with QD and an Aquatouch results in absolutely no dirt on the drying towel.

I liken using hot water through a pressure washer to when runnning the kitchen tap to rinse off a dirty utensil. Hot water removes whatever is on the utensil so much more quickly than cold water (if at all).


----------



## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

panama said:


> oooooh. small words i can understand please mate.:thumb: :lol:


Sorry... business speak... :lol: :lol:

In English:

Does hot water break down the wax protection...


----------



## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Engine_Swap said:


> Sorry... business speak... :lol: :lol:
> 
> In English:
> 
> Does hot water break down the wax protection...


I would say more so on Nuba finishes that synthetic ones.


----------



## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

Alex L said:


> I would say more so on Nuba finishes that synthetic ones.


Thats what I think also... especially when using temps in excessive of 40degC ... hence why I dont use hot water


----------



## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Engine_Swap said:


> Thats what I think also... especially when using temps in excessive of 40degC ... hence why I dont use hot water


As hot as I can handle it here, got keep my little pinkies warm.

Otherwise they go a nice yellowy/grey colour and very numb.


----------



## bilt-hamber kid (Dec 4, 2007)

The cleaning ability of vehicle (or any other) surfactant blend depends a great deal on what's known as the cloud point. These surfactants are carried in water, but as the temperature of the cleaning solution increases their solubility decreases - the liquid will actually look turbid, or cloudy, when this temp is reached and as a result the cleaning ability of the shampoo, TFR, pre soak, snow foam or whatever is vastly increased. The oil and dirt loving molecules are literally jumping to anchor on to the dirt you want to shift.

For maximum cleaning you need to run the applied solution at near its cloud point and ALSO rinse with water at the same temperature. Second best scenario is apply the cleaner cold and rinse with water at cloud point, or even hotter as it'll chill hitting a cold panel. Least effective of all is cold applied cold rinsed. The cloud point of our Bilt-Hamber Surfex HD is 40-500C

Hope this is of interest.


----------



## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

do you think hot water can really harm a cured wax finish? Any darker coloured car is going to get hotter sitting in the sun than the water you put on it, so as I've never seen any evidence to suggest the sun melts the waxes off my cars, I'd be surprised if a cured wax finish would be any more damaged by hot water.

I would like to know what temp water the PW's generate though - I guess about 60 degs or so???

That is a VERY helpful post AL :thumb: I dont have practical access to hot water for foaming but certainly will use a hot Surfex HD pre-wash in future if you suggest it makes a significant difference to cleaning


----------



## bilt-hamber kid (Dec 4, 2007)

That's 40 - 50 C not 500!


----------



## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

This time of year (winter) I fill the wash buckets up with hot water from the tap before I leave the house and secure them in the van also some empty 1litre bottles for the foam lance and citrus pre-spray.

Personally I think warm water penetrates the soiling better than cold and as Alex has already put keeps your hands warm.

In the summer the heat keeps the water at a decent temp in the tank and because of drying issues would rather use colder water.


----------



## bilt-hamber kid (Dec 4, 2007)

Bigpikle said:


> That is a VERY helpful post AL :thumb: I dont have practical access to hot water for foaming but certainly will use a hot Surfex HD pre-wash in future if you suggest it makes a significant difference to cleaning


My pleasure Pikle. I just might stock up on bucket thermometers now. 

But you can see how such a small margin (+/- a few degrees) can make such a big difference. Factors like these are one of the reasons why 2 people's perspectives of a product can be so different. Person A may have had the temp right on the money, and person B may have been 30% out.

Glad to have been of help. You know the drill by now - any questions, please don't hesitate to call. No sell, just advice if thats what you need.

al


----------



## JonnyG (Apr 16, 2006)

I use warm to hot water through my Karcher throughout Winter. 

The water comes out of the tap "hottish" but is only warm by the time it sprays out of the Vario lance.

I also use an AB Foam Lance and have no problem getting a good foam with warm water, even though the water pressure from my hot tap is not as high as the cold. 

I have absolutely no doubt that it helps in dirt removal, especially in winter with salt & grime on your paint. Afterall, can you imagine washing dirty pots and pans with cold water and fairy liquid compared to hot water ? (not that I use Fairy liquid on my car if you're wandering  ) 

Keeps your hands nice and warm too. :thumb:


----------



## dinodog (Aug 10, 2007)

Using hot water will help remove dirt and traffic film but remember not to hot! i would'nt like to guess at a temp so i wont, i have seen lacquer and paint blown off cars that some has used too hot and possible to close.


----------



## wannabe painter (Mar 6, 2007)

A friend of mine owns a company that makes caravan cleaning products, he is the scientist of the business and he said that using "heated" water alters the PH value, there for increases the cleaning solution power. 

This would apply to TFR, Shampoo everything. 

So the idea of would you clean your filthy pots in a sink of cold water is a perfect example.


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

A sinkful of dirty dishes washed with cold water is a poor analogy. There's a fairly big difference between grease and grime, not to mention not wanting to leave foodstuff on the dishes.


----------



## dw0510 (Oct 22, 2006)

They do work well, mines for sale atm as I have bought a very powerful cold one. Reason being having a hot one in the van was a bit messy and too heavy to take out.


----------



## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

PJS said:


> A sinkful of dirty dishes washed with cold water is a poor analogy. There's a fairly big difference between grease and grime, not to mention not wanting to leave foodstuff on the dishes.


Not to mention the fact that the dishes are coated with a kiln fired glaze, rather than paint and wax!

In my own experience of using hot water pressure washers at work on tractors, trucks and vans, The ones that regularly get blasted with hot water under pressure, certainly lose the shine and lustre from the paint very quickly. I try not to use hot water unless there is a lot of grease and oil about, and I am convinced the paintwork stays bright and shiny much longer. (these are vehicles which are never polished or waxed however)

That is just my opinion though. What is undeniable though, is that hot water under pressure WILL strip paint off metal and plastic with the greatest of ease. If you use hot water under pressure, you need to stand well back:thumb:

Whilst waxes may stand extremely high temperatures in the sunshine, I have difficulty accepting this as being comparable with hot water swilling over the surface.


----------



## Guest (Mar 19, 2008)

Mugwump said:


> What is undeniable though, is that hot water under pressure WILL strip paint off metal and plastic with the greatest of ease. If you use hot water under pressure, you need to stand well back:thumb:


What sort of pressures are you talking about here? I've used water that is just about bearable to touch through a Karcher HD 5/11 on a high pressure setting (120bar) and close to the paintwork without issue. I'd imagine the pressure washers you've used have a much higher output.


----------



## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

Phisp said:


> What sort of pressures are you talking about here? I've used water that is just about bearable to touch through a Karcher HD 5/11 on a high pressure setting (120bar) and close to the paintwork without issue. I'd imagine the pressure washers you've used have a much higher output.


No, about the same as yours ( the 5/11 is one of Karchers commercial spec washers).

I wasn't referring to my own problems. I was just voicing an opinion based on my own observation of paintwork that regularly sees hot water. When I was younger and used to wash my Fathers car, I used to use hot water in the wash bucket in the Winter. I noticed a similar dulling of the paint over time.

Having used both hot and cold on various paints, i do assure you that hot water does remove paint incredibly easily. Repaired paintwork can be particularly easy to damage.


----------



## bilt-hamber kid (Dec 4, 2007)

Hot water coupled with caustic TFR will slowly attack the resin binder in paint systems leaving it dull eventually - so - IMPORTANT - pick a non caustic product. The number of hydrogen ion in the cleaning solution will have naff all to do with how hot the water is - so the pH will remain constant - ALL that will happen as I've said above it that any caustic effect will be increased.


----------



## GlynRS2 (Jan 21, 2006)

KE - I have been toying with the idea of a hot pressure washer - the reason being I would like to more effectively like to remove as much of the dirt and grime before touching the paint at all with a mit, so as to reduce the risk of marring.
I have been looking at the Lavor Rio:
link


----------



## bilt-hamber kid (Dec 4, 2007)

bilt-hamber kid said:


> ALL that will happen as I've said above it that any caustic effect will be increased.


Just to clarify what I mean with the correct temp (in the case of caustic-free Surfex HD 40 it's 40-50 C ) you'll hit cloud point where the surfactants' dirt loving "tails" are longing to get attached to oil / dirt - good, it's what you want for max cleaning. But a side effect in some cleaners ( lots of TFR's) that have sodium hydroxide added to assist in soil removal (it's a common addition to paint strippers) is that when you get them hot, sure they'll reach cloud point PLUS the caustic will be more aggressive too - bad- the pH won't shift but it WILL be more likely to attack stuff you want to leave alone - the paint binder. Treat the caustic ones with care!


----------



## German Taxi (Nov 6, 2007)

Years ago, I read in a motorcycle magazine that you should NOT wash (your bike, especially) with hot water in the winter because the heat in the water invigorates the corrosive properties of road salt.

Mr Bilt-Hamber, would this be in line with your comments about increasing caustic affect?


----------



## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

dunno about everyone else, but i'm well confused now, im afraid of going near a bucket of water now, lol


----------



## Tacklebury (Feb 27, 2008)

Anyone got any ideas how hot the water is that comes out of a normal tap? I have a hot outlet that i'm thinking of routing outside so i can have hot water on tap. Will it be over 40c (Karcher max)


----------



## David (Apr 6, 2006)

This may be way off but hey:
is there anyway that really hot water can affect the wax on the car, ie: remove it?

I know you het hot water PW's - but how hot do they get?


----------



## JonnyG (Apr 16, 2006)

Tacklebury said:


> Anyone got any ideas how hot the water is that comes out of a normal tap? I have a hot outlet that i'm thinking of routing outside so i can have hot water on tap. Will it be over 40c (Karcher max)


Well I use a cheapish, normal Karcher which is fed by a long hose from a hot water tap. Because of the long hose - 10m, the (hand hot) water that comes out of the end of the hose is only warm (25-30 degrees) when it reaches the Karcher.

My Karcher has lasted two Winters and is still going strong, so if you do the same you should be alright


----------



## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Havent read any of the previous posts so apologies if i'm repeating anything that's already been said 

In my eyes hot water makes a considerable difference during the wash stage, especially if you combine it with a foam lance - 50/60 degree shaving foam is awesome! Just look at my Cayman S write up to see the difference on the car straight after a pre foam with hot water....

Obviously if it's too hot then you will begin to strip wax etc. I find that 30/40 degrees is fine on Vintage and the likes and a couple of our maintenence plan cars that are well protected can quite often be ready to dry straight after a foam and rinse. If the car is away to get a full detail then i normally up the temp to around 50/60 as this seems to offer even greater cleaning ability and obviously you dont have to worry if you're stripping the protection if any on the car 

(the lance is good for keeping your hands warm too! )


----------



## bilt-hamber kid (Dec 4, 2007)

German Taxi said:


> Years ago, I read in a motorcycle magazine that you should NOT wash (your bike, especially) with hot water in the winter because the heat in the water invigorates the corrosive properties of road salt.
> 
> Mr Bilt-Hamber, would this be in line with your comments about increasing caustic affect?


Heat will speed up any reaction - that's why caustic effect is increased in caustic containing TFR. Bare metal corrosion (stone chips!) is increased with heat in the presence of an electrolyte - salt water. But trouble is sodium chloride (salt) has a massive affinity for steel, the bond it makes means that it's virtually impossible to remove even under extreme water pressure blasting. So it'll be around long after winter and once wet and warm in the summer will begin the corrosion process again. This is exactly the reason why we developed autobalm - protect your car by making it shiny -was our first ad headline.


----------



## German Taxi (Nov 6, 2007)

Thanks for that!


----------



## Guest (Mar 25, 2008)

I "decided" to wash with cold water again at the weekend. I found that not only did the pre-wash seem far less effective but that the pre-spray residue did not rinse off so efficiently - I definately felt it was taking far longer to fully rinse the cars off. It was also  cold!

Sidenote: Be wary of Hozelock tap connectors. I recently have been using a Hozelock lock connector that screws down over a conventional sink tap to allow me to feed hot water to my p/w. Last weekend, this connector slipped a little spraying hot water all over our utility room. The Wife has now allowed me to decided that hot water washing is banned until I fit a proper outside feed.


----------



## Ducky (Mar 19, 2007)

So is it worth having a warmer water supply (20/30C?), I'm looking to have an outside tap fitted closer to my garage, and could fit a thermo valve in the process to get warm/hot water outside.... I guess I could always turn it down in the summer and just keep it lukewarm?


----------



## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Phisp said:


> Sidenote: Be wary of Hozelock tap connectors. I recently have been using a Hozelock lock connector that screws down over a conventional sink tap to allow me to feed hot water to my p/w. Last weekend, this connector slipped a little spraying hot water all over our utility room. The Wife has now allowed me to decided that hot water washing is banned until I fit a proper outside feed.


Thanks for the heads up :thumb: I'd planned to do likewise for washing the 205 only but "that bloody car gets more love and attention than I do" type grief would only have got worse and spraying hot water all over the kitchen would have meant me sleeping in the car :lol:

Still trying to figure out how to get a hot water supply to my garage though but the cost would be huge I suspect as the garage is about 50' from the house.


----------



## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

Of course hot water makes a difference, it’s just basic physics. Heat up molecules and they start jumping about the place, separating themselves from one another and what they’re attached to. That’s why we wash our clothes in warm/hot water. Haven’t got time to read all the posts so don’t know if that’s been mentioned already.


----------



## extreme-detail (Nov 7, 2005)

just think about it guys do u wash ur dishes with hot or cold water ?
HOT of course lol

if you use hot water through the foam lance the foam works much better and is alot thicker than using cold water


----------



## karburn (Feb 1, 2008)

After pricing the P/W that the gents at Polished Bliss use, I opted for a low-tech approach with my electric P/W unit. I use a Y-hose to connect to the hot/cold water faucets in the laundry room, which fortunately is located in our garage at home. It's a bit of a chore running back and forth to mix the water to the right temp, but it's worth it on colder days. 









Again, this is to mix WARM water, not hot. Now that I've purchased a foam gun, I rarely use the P/W now. This may not be a solution for the professionals, obviously, but for just my personal vehicles, it works very well.


----------



## MRSCISCODS9 (Mar 25, 2008)

I always prefer to wash with hw pw on all my cars. For the initial spray down it gets the dirt of so much quicker and it helps to remove any gooey bits under the sills. Use only a warm temp if poss, about 40 degrees. after the cars been washed i then rinse off in cold water.
This is of course based on a pw that is run on electric mains for cold water and has a deisel burner to heat the water to whatever temp you choose. I've washed hundreds of cars and never had a problem. The elements have more affect on the paintwork than water temp. Providing its not set to 4000 degrees kelvin that is.

All the best


----------



## silver bmw z3 (Apr 30, 2007)

I looked at Karcher hw pw last night - am I correct in thinking you don't get one for less than about 1500 quid ?! Quickly switched my opinion towards cold water !


----------



## MickCTR (Mar 4, 2006)

silver bmw z3 said:


> I looked at Karcher hw pw last night - am I correct in thinking you don't get one for less than about 1500 quid ?! Quickly switched my opinion towards cold water !


I've seen one for £500 i'm sure. I did read in the Z booklet though that clean cool water is the way to go. Not even any shampoo as even the mildest detergents can start to weather the paint! Think it was aimed more at single stage paints though!


----------



## Multipla Mick (Feb 5, 2006)

silver bmw z3 said:


> I looked at Karcher hw pw last night - am I correct in thinking you don't get one for less than about 1500 quid ?! Quickly switched my opinion towards cold water !


Lavor do hot pressure washers including domestic ones, but the cheapest is £565...still a chunk of money.

http://www.jet-wash-direct.co.uk/pressurewashers/dpwhw.html


----------



## silver bmw z3 (Apr 30, 2007)

At least that's a bit more like it. Blimey it's only a kettle attached to a normal pressure washer


----------



## 1000lakes (May 12, 2007)

How about using these for water heating?

http://aavaas.com/2007/12/27/immersion-rod-water-heater-cheap-and-quick-alternative/

For PW I made lowtech solution for use at this time of year. (still plenty of snow here)
Pressure washer+big water canister modified to have hozelock type connector at the lowest part on the side.

All tied to one of these with bungee cords and put for flat use obviously:
http://www.greenfingers.com/superstore/product.asp?dept_id=200348&pf_id=LS2763D

Still needs some more modification but it does the job and can be filled with warm water. Only real problem was getting the air out of PW but after that it works. I'd imagine something like this would also be use for people wanting to PW their cars without access to hose.


----------



## jimjon (Mar 30, 2007)

can't you get a big water tank in your garage with an immersion heater and use a pressure washer that takes water from the tank instead of tap?


----------



## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

wow - cant even imagine trying to run my PW with my hot water supply. Too tight ar$ed for that kind of cost :lol:

Hot mix of Surfex as a pre-spray is my budget method - bet it works just as well as a hot foam, or perhaps even better, although it doesnt stay hot for long obviously


----------



## King Eric (Feb 27, 2006)

Ive had it priced up to have my mate round who is a plumber to run a HW supply from the house to the garage, through a trench in the garden (pmsl) and frankly its cheaper and easier to get the car into the bath upstairs

A re-think I reckon....


----------



## 1000lakes (May 12, 2007)

Bigpikle said:


> wow - cant even imagine trying to run my PW with my hot water supply. Too tight ar$ed for that kind of cost :lol:


Well it is not much water that goes through PW/minute..


----------



## Onibas (Nov 27, 2007)

I think no one has mentioned, but I find hot water really useful for interiors, upholostry for example. In certain cases, more efficient than chemicals used with cold water.


----------



## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Hot water 'cause it means I can use less shampoo for the same cleaning :lol:


----------



## Timmo (Mar 21, 2006)

Onibas said:


> I think no one has mentioned, but I find hot water really useful for interiors, upholostry for example. In certain cases, more efficient than chemicals used with cold water.


i always use hot water for interiors! far more effective!

we used to have the pressure washer set to 70 degs for washing at the garage (cold feed but deisel powered machine!!) very easy for non contact washing! hot/warm water makes it so much easier, i never wash a car in cold water, never have and as long as i am cleaning cars i never will!


----------



## Matt G (May 16, 2007)

An ex of mines Dad owned a company that sold industrial pressure washers. Used to go up to this Unit and use them on my old car and the hot water really did make a difference! Didn't really need to hand wash it afterwards


----------



## cvs04 (Jan 2, 2007)

The majority of products work better when used with hot water I've found, it makes the wash stage far easier and keeps your hands warm on those bitter days. I don't know how anyone professional valeter/detailer can survive without one; you wouldn't wash your dishes with cold water would you?


----------



## silver bmw z3 (Apr 30, 2007)

What do you use cvs04? Thinking of changing my PW but not sure i'm ready to stump up for a hot water one!


----------



## Buzzsaw (Nov 4, 2007)

I've just ordered another hozelock tap kit from Homebase this time to run from the hot water feed in the kitchen - seemed a lot cheaper than forking out for a used hot water PW.

I have a question though! Can you use hot water with an RO system, OK may seem a little dumb but just wanted to check.....


----------



## PDK (Apr 14, 2008)

Bigpikle said:


> wow - cant even imagine trying to run my PW with my hot water supply. Too tight ar$ed for that kind of cost :lol:
> 
> you and me both....lol:thumb:


----------



## King Eric (Feb 27, 2006)

I now have a tea urn (dont laugh) in the garage. Should be enough hot water for wheel wash and good pre-clean and foamage


----------



## PDK (Apr 14, 2008)

Can you show us pic of your tea urn - dont forget to polish it...lol

Sorry - Had to


----------



## Captain Morgan (May 7, 2007)

Yeah go on get your urn out for the lads......


----------



## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Eric n Urn:thumb:


----------



## PDK (Apr 14, 2008)

Captain Morgan said:


> Yeah go on get your urn out for the lads......


LMAO....


----------



## cvs04 (Jan 2, 2007)

*Hot Water Pressure Washer*



silver bmw z3 said:


> What do you use cvs04? Thinking of changing my PW but not sure i'm ready to stump up for a hot water one!


I'm currently using a Wesley Nova Typoon 120A, it's not bad although I did have the top end one called a Hurricaine which had fancy chrome casing but was a bit big and heavy to fit in the van so got this one instead. I think it cost about £1500 the big lump was £2500 though. You can go daft and pay about £4000 for something like a Gerni or a Kranzle machine which are great and very durable but 4 bags is a little extreme. It does make me wonder though when I see reviews from guys that have spent fortunes on fancy PTG's and Sun Guns etc and when you look into a reflection shot you see some Mickey Mouse Karcher in the background that cost £70 from BnQ, that's not to say these guys don't do a good job but it just doesn't make sense to me when people buy all the gadgets and spend £6000 on a tub of wax when they haven't got the basics. Call me soft but how does anyone use cold water in December without getting pneumonia or frostbite, I've done it in the past over the years and really didn't like it. It's probably fair to say they both do the job but that's a bit like telling a Bentley driver he could have got a Fiesta for £8000!!!:thumb:


----------



## energysolutions (Mar 9, 2008)

cvs04 said:


> I'm currently using a Wesley Nova Typoon 120A, it's not bad although I did have the top end one called a Hurricaine which had fancy chrome casing but was a bit big and heavy to fit in the van so got this one instead. I think it cost about £1500 the big lump was £2500 though. You can go daft and pay about £4000 for something like a *Gerni* or a Kranzle machine which are great and very durable but 4 bags is a little extreme. It does make me wonder though when I see reviews from guys that have spent fortunes on fancy PTG's and Sun Guns etc and when you look into a reflection shot you see some Mickey Mouse Karcher in the background that cost £70 from BnQ, that's not to say these guys don't do a good job but it just doesn't make sense to me when people buy all the gadgets and spend £6000 on a tub of wax when they haven't got the basics. Call me soft but how does anyone use cold water in December without getting pneumonia or frostbite, I've done it in the past over the years and really didn't like it. It's probably fair to say they both do the job but that's a bit like telling a Bentley driver he could have got a Fiesta for £8000!!!:thumb:


New Gernis are no longer available as of 1st January 2007 - clicky

I currently have a Kranzle 630 Therm which is as good as it gets without getting into 3 phase or an engine and agree that they great - well engineered, powerful and durable - but £4K, I paid around 25% of that...........


----------



## cvs04 (Jan 2, 2007)

Oh maybe I'm wrong but when I weighed them up I seem to remember they where pretty dear. I've used a small cold water Kranzle (even that was nearly a grand) and it did feel well put together so I'm sure the top end ones are quite good.


----------



## dsolds (Feb 13, 2008)

Nixon do a diesel fired hot/cold machine (single or 3 phase) for just over a grand. It even has a detergent feed with 25 litre drum inside if you want. All in a galvanised chassis which is on wheels so it can live outside if it has to.
I have one and it's excellent.

No good if you're a mobile valeter etc. 2 man job to lift it.

http://www.transtoretanks.co.uk/nixon-steamcleaner.htm


----------



## energysolutions (Mar 9, 2008)

cvs04 said:


> Oh maybe I'm wrong but when I weighed them up I seem to remember they where pretty dear.


You are correct in your assumptions, My post was not meant to appear "clever" (I`m sorry if it did) just that with careful shopping a bargain can be had, if you know what to look for.............

I get to see them inside out as I occasionally carry out (electrical) repairs to machines for one of my customers who owns a large cleaning equipment company, and like you say, both Gerni and Kranzle are good.


----------



## Eurogloss (Jan 22, 2008)

Bigpikle said:


> do you think hot water can really harm a cured wax finish? Any darker coloured car is going to get hotter sitting in the sun than the water you put on it, so as I've never seen any evidence to suggest the sun melts the waxes off my cars, I'd be surprised if a cured wax finish would be any more damaged by hot water.
> 
> I would like to know what temp water the PW's generate though - I guess about 60 degs or so???
> 
> That is a VERY helpful post AL :thumb: I dont have practical access to hot water for foaming but certainly will use a hot Surfex HD pre-wash in future if you suggest it makes a significant difference to cleaning


Apparently the sun can melt the wax ! And it starts at 180 F.
Getting back to the subject i have used hot water pw and it does make a difference !

Especially when it's freezing cold ! It will shift the dirt much quicker only down side it evaporates fairly quick off the paint surface which might cause micromarring whilst drying . :detailer:


----------

