# Formula One



## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Once a devotee but in recent times my interest has diminished, BBC losing full rights, race cars being dumbed down being just a couple of the reasons. 

Wouldn't normally bother but tuned into today's quali, interesting and dramatic to say the least and witnessed a bit of history in the making...Max Verstappen, I hope this isn't a flash in the pan and we have the makings of a new star.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

By all accounts he is the next big thing, however I'll get supporting the other side of the garage with young mr sainz.

It's still boring though, I think I'll record it and then watch it on fast forward. The moto gp however is much more fun. That's on tomorrow too.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

This season looks to be one of the most disjointed ever. 

Low grid numbers and zero parity. 

Button and Alonso fighting out for last on the grid is a hard watch. That car must be dreadful. 

We can only hope teams get to grips with their cars fast.


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## Clancy (Jul 21, 2013)

F1 has been absolute crap the last few years, watch the odd race now but it's just been ruined. Used to be so good, loved watching it


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

Nigel Mansel and Ayrton Senna in the final laps of the Monaco Grand Prix 1992 (?) 

They don't make em like that anymore, try telling that to the kids of today etc, etc, etc.


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## trv8 (Dec 30, 2007)

I prefer to watch NASCAR than F1.


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## Nick-ST (Mar 4, 2013)

Currently watching the Malaysian GP on BBC. Good watch but it is dull in the sense you know Mercedes will finish 1st and 2nd. Its just a case of who out of the two will win it. Behind them two though, fantastic racing. Ban the two Mercs and it would make for extremely interesting racing!

Sky ruined F1 IMO!


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Nick-ST said:


> Currently watching the Malaysian GP on BBC. Good watch but it is dull in the sense you know Mercedes will finish 1st and 2nd. Its just a case of who out of the two will win it. Behind them two though, fantastic racing. Ban the two Mercs and it would make for extremely interesting racing!
> 
> Sky ruined F1 IMO!


You must be watching a different race to me!


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## Dannbodge (Sep 26, 2010)

I'm really impressed by Honda this week. Compared to the last race they have made so much progress. 
That Ferrari though. Not only the best looking it looks pretty handy


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

Vettel. Blue flag blue flag blue flag. Been in front for five mins and thinks hes top man again. Still yet to see him race


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## Steve_6R (Jun 9, 2014)

These rules have ruined it for me. Listening to the commentators explain how Mercedes have been caught out by tyre rules was a lot to take in.


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## nbray67 (Mar 22, 2012)

Health and Safety, as with everything in life in current times, as ruined Motorsport.

Couple that with money, new rulings and who shouts the loudest and that's why it's never going to be like it was when we watched it knowing we'd see just pure out and out racing, pure skill and 'spuds bigger than melons' drivers who pushed and overstepped the boundaries gave it their all in every race using every ounce of the track, the car and their talent.


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## Nick-ST (Mar 4, 2013)

Well I take back what I said! After Australia and the early stages of this race it really did look like a repeat of last season. Pleased to see another Constructor able to keep pace at last!


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Anyone actually watched Malaysia?? Brilliant race across the field and a slightly surprising result. Merc balls'd up their strategy early on but credit to Vettel. Second race in so still a long way to go and my money's still on back to back for Hamilton.

He showed a lot of class too - clearly properly grumpy after the last stop but a good response on the podium.

The sport's been like this for at least 20 years so I guess anyone moaning must be aged at least 40 to have a coherent memory of racing pre Imola 94 as that's the point at which the biggest changes happened. IMO of course.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Yes I watched it, on fast forward though it makes it go much quicker. I think this could be the last year that I bother with it.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

As Andy has said its not the same as it once was, however there has nearly always been a dominant force, a dominat driver over the course of a few seasons, no different to any other sport.

It is actually better now in terms of overtaking, there's a lot more of it. We have the fascinating sight of the once all powerful McLaren struggling near the rear of the grid, some great young talent coming through, Max Verstappen was a sensation over the weekend for someone so young, the tv coverage is better than ever and still improving, shame it's not free for all but that's the sports business. I'm actually becoming enthusiastic again.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

2016 or 2017 they are going to change the cars back to 2m wide, bigger rear tyres and over 1000bhp engines. I think it became too much the cars than the divers before. If they go 1000 bhp it will be down to who has the biggest balls like it did in the 80 turbo era


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> 2016 or 2017 they are going to change the cars back to 2m wide, bigger rear tyres and over 1000bhp engines. I think it became too much the cars than the divers before. If they go 1000 bhp it will be down to who has the biggest balls like it did in the 80 turbo era


Really..wow! Get our Nige out of retirement.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

They need to give them all the same front and rear wings and then let them loose.
Anyone who watched yesterday's moto gp will see what proper racing is.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

SteveTDCi said:


> They need to give them all the same front and rear wings and then let them loose.
> Anyone who watched yesterday's moto gp will see what proper racing is.


Would be a nice idea. I've always been an f1 fan. Its more the technology in the cars that iam more interested in. They are amazing machines. Moto gp is awesome though


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

AndyC said:


> The sport's been like this for at least 20 years so I guess anyone moaning must be aged at least 40 to have a coherent memory of racing pre Imola 94 as that's the point at which the biggest changes happened. IMO of course.


 I am old enough to remember the 6 wheel Tyrell, the Brabham fan car, the Lotus underskirt car, slow Ferrari v12's and the original Turbo era.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

GleemSpray said:


> I am old enough to remember the 6 wheel Tyrell, the Brabham fan car, the Lotus underskirt car, slow Ferrari v12's and the original Turbo era.


Bit older than me 

Mind you, I'd challenge anyone to name a WDC since, say, the mid 70's who has won in an inferior car. Hunt's title was won in Lauda's absence (harsh, very harsh but...) and I can't think of a genuinely poor car since which has taken a driver to the title.

Difference is that the sport's evolved and not necessarily always for the better over the last 20 years or so and long runs of form have become the norm with a single team and 2 drivers fighting it out, not half a dozen down to the wire - that's a shame.

I'm not sure that Mercedes will have another 3-4 years of utter dominance however; I still see them taking WDC/WCC this year but Ferrari have developed massively over the winter - their quali and race pace before Malaysia has been surprising and I hope they keep Mercedes honest for the rest of the year.

Alonso must be kicking himself. Hard.


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

The Formula is too tightly defined and there is too much money at stake. 

The pivotal moment for me, was when Schumachers team hired an army of lawyers to contest an infringement penalty. Don't remember the exact race, but it was the season when they had to have a wooden plank under the car to record ground clearance rule breaches. 

Anyone remember Hunt and Walker doing the commentaries? Priceless.


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

Mansel did very well in an inferior Ferrari, particularly in wet races. 

He has one huge set of balls.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

And Schumachers Benetton was absolutely not the best car on the grid

The rot set in with Formula 1 with Jean Marie Balestre - he brought politics in to the sport andthis has been compounded by Bernie Ecclestone taking it in to the big time money wise. 

Whilst he has secured the stability of the sport its gone too far and the technical regulations are strangling innovation

Its wrong that the most heavily funded teams get the greatest share of the TV rights - it widens the gap, either teams should all get an equal share or the smaller teams get more of the pot to enable a more level playing field

Loosen the technical regulations - impose maximum key dimensions, maximum weights, maximum power, maximum tyre sizes and allow free reign within those limits - we'd really start to see some divergence then


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

GleemSpray said:


> Mansel did very well in an inferior Ferrari, particularly in wet races.
> 
> He has one huge set of balls.


biggest of the lot had our Nige.:thumb:


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## alan h M (Aug 1, 2013)

i think they should give them a basic size and weight limit and cap the money. then do what you want . 
all the cars are too similar , so who ever has the money gets slightly ahead. 
if every one could develop their own ideas they could really gain on the competition but it would be hard for the opposition to tweak their design to copy some one else's. 

also there isn't enough strategy in f1. all it is, is flat out and mind the tires. 
we need fuel stops to allow differing strategies.


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## alan h M (Aug 1, 2013)

scrap the drs systems. nobody wants to see overtaking on the straights like that. 
we all want it in the corners and fighting for the place


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## alan h M (Aug 1, 2013)

I think that if yiu crash out or break down etc that you should be able to get in second car and finish the race. 
it would give experience to the younger guys and allow the teams to get more data on the setup 
maybe they could run new wings etc


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## alan h M (Aug 1, 2013)

points for qualifying, fastest lap, most overtakes, fuel economy, fastest pit stops, driver of the day


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Excellent points - love a proper F1 discussion.

I'll admit sticking a foot out a bit as Berger I believe was quoted as saying that the Benetton was a bit of a dog and as big Schumacher fan I didn't want to appear biased 

Ditto the 94 Williams - dearly wish we'd seem Senna making it work!


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

AndyC said:


> Excellent points - love a proper F1 discussion.
> 
> I'll admit sticking a foot out a bit as Berger I believe was quoted as saying that the Benetton was a bit of a dog and as big Schumacher fan I didn't want to appear biased
> 
> Ditto the 94 Williams - dearly wish we'd seem Senna making it work!


I remember Schumacher raising eyebrows during his first Monaco weekend as he spent the whole time shunning the socialising and was either working out in the gym or cycling round the circuit endlessly.

Some people scoffed at the time...


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

go a bit further back when some f1 drivers would drive anything on four wheels, use to see Jimmy Clark hurtling his Lotus Cortina around the Crystal Palace track.

Peter Windsor was a pal of mine when we raced slot cars back in the sixties, he went onto be a good writer, some of you may enjoy this:

http://peterwindsor.com/2013/08/05/a-galaxie-win-for-clark/


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

True that. Sadly it's now "not done" and I'd love to see F1 drivers in other series.

Peter Windsor's one of my favourite Motorsport writers. Never patronises and really, really knows his subject.


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## Tonie (May 26, 2014)

AndyC said:


> True that. Sadly it's now "not done" and I'd love to see F1 drivers in other series.


Well, all things considered in this thread, why not watch the FIA WEC? Also not as heroic as it has been (I'd loved to be around when Pedro Rodriguez and Jo Siffert were still racing), but it ticks most of boxes as commented before.

From technology driven with over 1000BHP (the LMP1 HY class), cost capped but extremely good racing (LMP2), lots of close racing and overtaking in corners (GTE classes), strategy is very important, F1 drivers, 'non F1' drivers who are arguably more talented, much 'nicer' drivers in general, points for qualification, etc etc.

Don't miss this opportunity and watch the action on Silverstone this weekend if you like.


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## John74 (Mar 12, 2007)

The WEC championship could be very good this year , in testing they have been a lot faster ( LMP1 ) than last year and it is thought likely to be setting the fastest ever laps at Lemans.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

SteveTDCi said:


> They need to give them all the same front and rear wings and then let them loose.
> Anyone who watched yesterday's moto gp will see what proper racing is.


There are numerous races that pitch drivers against each other in very similar or identical cars.....I definitely don't want this in F1.

Wings are not a one size fits all, they evolve constantly and can of course be adjusted. If you dictate a specific wing is may hugely benefit one car and detract from another due to how they use/direct/manage air around the car. As they currently do, set the rules and let the teams be creative....it's not hidden technology, teams can see/photo/copy/test other teams pretty quickly if they desire.



andy665 said:


> Its wrong that the most heavily funded teams get the greatest share of the TV rights - it widens the gap, either teams should all get an equal share or the smaller teams get more of the pot to enable a more level playing field
> 
> Loosen the technical regulations - impose maximum key dimensions, maximum weights, maximum power, maximum tyre sizes and allow free reign within those limits - we'd really start to see some divergence then


It's not the most heavily funded teams...it's the most successful teams, and that seems fair. You invest, win, all the cameras are on you, people tune in to watch YOU then you get more of the money, same in most (all?) sports.



alan h M said:


> i think they should give them a basic size and weight limit and cap the money. then do what you want .
> all the cars are too similar , so who ever has the money gets slightly ahead.
> if every one could develop their own ideas they could really gain on the competition but it would be hard for the opposition to tweak their design to copy some one else's.
> 
> ...


On one side people are saying if not right that one company can run away with the championship, and you're saying teh cars are all too similar.

If you did this I think you'd find the teams spread further apart, all this super technology wound be tucked below bodywork and no one would know how start competing. And how do you ring fence money? Companies would get creative with spending. Say Ferrari road cars spend £50M on R&D developing a KERS type system that could be adapted for F1 then gift the technology to the F1 group for €1,000....companies like Red Bull would be back of the grid as they could not be so creative with funding.



alan h M said:


> scrap the drs systems. nobody wants to see overtaking on the straights like that.
> we all want it in the corners and fighting for the place


Nnnooooooo.....F1 was decried for years for being a procession and having no overtaking.

They tried all sorts of solutions, limiting wing sized to reduce the dirty air behind cars, grooved tyres....more grooved tyres....a number of pit stop changes or limitations.

None of these made any differences, the problem was all of these changes affected all cars in the cars equally.

I think they have finally found a good solution, with KERS, DRS and forcing different tyre compounds creates differences in cars, and helping with overtakes (on straights and corners) and another aspect to strategy, F1 definitely needs to keep these aspects IMHO.



alan h M said:


> points for qualifying, fastest lap, most overtakes, fuel economy, fastest pit stops, driver of the day


We don't want to have an excel spread sheet to work out the guy who retired on lap 10 actually 'won' as he made 30mpg, had a good pit stop and qualified in 1st place. It would totally turn off the audience, and any casual watcher.

However the concept of points for something other than finishing position is interesting. Bernie (the decrepit little troll) was speaking about qualifying having the same number of points as the race, but whoever finished 1st starts the race from 12th. It would certainly make for an interesting race....would it ruin F1.....maybe...

BUT it's a much better idea than double points for the last race rubbish they tried last year.

-------

I certainly don't have all the answers....But F1 is currently struggling BIG time. This year is already a short grid, Sauber and Force India perhaps not financially secure. Lots of cars running in Australia with hardly any sponsors, Malaysia was not a great deal better!

For F1 to survive maybe it needs some bold moves....and big changes. Bernie has never shied away from change.....or controversy, hopefully he can make the changes......then retire.


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