# A friend of mine needs advice.



## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Hoping people on here who own an M3 or M4 can help. A friend of mine has purchased a newish M3 only 11 months old and he has had the car for only two weeks. It isn't a daily so only uses it at weekends. Now everything on it is stock including the exhaust. He has received a complaint that's a typed out letter stating that his car is too loud when he starts it up in the mornings, usually he starts it up at around 7:30 for when he goes out to car meets or just for a morning blast. In case you don't know with the particular engine which is the S55 unit it has a cold start feature so for a minute or so the engine revs at around 1100 revs before settling down to under a 1000 revs. He says he doesn't rev the engine, doesn't wheel spin or drive in an anti social way. He simply starts his car, waits a minute or two then drives off. He is concerned that the neighbor may get in touch with the local council to investigate. He wants to stay on the right side of the law. The car is still under warranty with BMW, he is thinking of taken the car to BMW to see what they can do but everything about the car is made to the manufacturers specifications with no mods done to the exhaust what advice can you guys give so I can pass on to him? Should he be worried?


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

If it's standard, then no. Let the neighbours waste the council's time.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

I would say "too loud" and "too loud for my liking" are not the same thing, and only one of them would suffer any legal come back. If everything is stock and it DOES turn out to too loud legally then I'm sure BMW would be required to call back all models. 

If I was in his shoes I would go and have a very calm conversation with the said neighbour, explain that there are zero issues when it comes to sound constraints, it isn't modified and is road worthy. And simply explain that he will be respectful if they will be respectful.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

RandomlySet said:


> If it's standard, then no. Let the neighbours waste the council's time.


Thanks Mat, but are you sure of this?


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## nbray67 (Mar 22, 2012)

Ooooooh, that cold start burble was music to my hears when we had the 240, thankfully for us, our estate is all detached housing with the driveway/garage to the rear of our property so it was never a problem, saying that, it's only on cold start for approx 2mins as you say so again, no real noise problem at all.

Can he not just have a polite word with his neighbour/complainant and explain it's how the car should be, standard and legal and is only on cold start for 2mins?


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## Ralphy87 (Nov 27, 2018)

My friend has a 2 year old M3 an he cutt out the rear silencers in the exhausts to give it a raspier note its all been welded back up and you would never know unless you where looking for it,it is defo a bit louder than the standard exhaust get him to check his as there could be evidence of this.This is a mod some M3 owners do to save the expense of paying through the roof for the likes of a Milltek or akrapovic hope that could help


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

:devil:v


stangalang said:


> I would say "too loud" and "too loud for my liking" are not the same thing, and only one of them would suffer any legal come back. If everything is stock and it DOES turn out to too loud legally then I'm sure BMW would be required to call back all models.
> 
> If I was in his shoes I would go and have a very calm conversation with the said neighbour, explain that there are zero issues when it comes to sound constraints, it isn't modified and is road worthy. And simply explain that he will be respectful if they will be respectful.


The problem is the letter is anonymous so he doesn't know who sent it. Like I said his M3 is a stock set up and even I can't see what the neighbor can do about it. He isn't acting in an anti social way, just simply starting his car before driving off in a safe and dignified manner.


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## nbray67 (Mar 22, 2012)

Soul boy 68 said:


> Thanks Mat, but are you sure of this?


Any noise abatement issues have got to be above a certain db for a certain amount of time coupled with disturbing the peace of more than one individual surely?


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

nbray67 said:


> Ooooooh, that cold start burble was music to my hears when we had the 240, thankfully for us, our estate is all detached housing with the driveway/garage to the rear of our property so it was never a problem, saying that, it's only on cold start for approx 2mins as you say so again, no real noise problem at all.
> 
> Can he not just have a polite word with his neighbour/complainant and explain it's how the car should be, standard and legal and is only on cold start for 2mins?


He doesn't know who the complaint is from.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

nbray67 said:


> Any noise abatement issues have got to be above a certain db for a certain amount of time coupled with disturbing the peace of more than one individual surely?


I have been looking online for loud exhaust noises but can't find anything, Ill ask my friend if he has done some research and this forum is a good starting so I can pick some brains


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

Soul boy 68 said:


> Thanks Mat, but are you sure of this?


Not 100%, but let's be honest, if it was legal to be sold here in the UK, then it's legal to own. I'd argue the neighbour is being unreasonable. Remember, all cars sold have to past strict tests to meet our motoring laws/standards


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

You're friend could do something like this.






Although some may say it's a bit childish and immature :lol: And dare I say, a little bit "chavvy" too.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Soul boy 68 said:


> :devil:v
> 
> The problem is the letter is anonymous so he doesn't know who sent it. Like I said his M3 is a stock set up and even I can't see what the neighbor can do about it. He isn't acting in an anti social way, just simply starting his car before driving off in a safe and dignified manner.


Was it posted by hand, or through RM? 
I honestly cant believe he is even giving it a second thought. Its ok to care what your neighbours think about you, and to not want to "offend" people when avoidable, but some people are so easily triggered that I think a reminder, like this one, that the world doesn't revolve around them, is a good thing.

Put it this way, if you are so triggered by the car that you will write a letter, but so soft and embarrassed that you wont go around in person to speak, then you are the same person that would skip the letter and go straight to the authorities. They didn't do that because they know its not illegal. Just my view from the outside


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## Sharpy296 (Jan 18, 2017)

Tell him to get a custom straight through exhaust.... then they'll have something to complain about. 

It annoys me when people post things anonymously, if you have an issue with something make them aware in person, most folk would then chat about it and it could be explained its stock and see if there is anything specific that can be done to resolve the issue for everyone. 

If the car is stock then use a DB meter app to get an idea of the noise, there are a number of stock motorbikes that are well over 100DB, my wifes last GSXR 750 was 102db as stock.

I dont think there are any (not super cars) that are over that, as long as he drives it as you say then i doubt he will have an issue. could just be jealousy? If he can find out who made the complaint then he could have a chat.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Hi SB. 

The way I see it is your friend can really do nothing at the moment, because he doesn't know who sent the letter. As and when the council arrives to test the dB levels of the exhaust, that'll dictate his next steps. If they say the car is fine, he does nothing, and keeps on enjoying his car. 

If they say it's too loud, then he takes the council's letter and his car to BMW to have it sorted under warranty. 

Personally, I think it's just someone being quite petty. From a noise abatement perspective, night hours are from 11pm to 7am. Although unreasonable noise can be dealt with by the council if it occurs at any time. I don't think someone starting their car and driving off in a reasonable manner could ever be classed as unreasonable. If the car is being driven in an unreasonable manner, that's a police issue. 

Cooks 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## camerashy (Feb 9, 2014)

Surely BMW, his local MOT garage or someone at the local car meets has a noise meter where this can be checked 
I would even be tempted to speak to Environmental Heath first and ask if they would do it
As an ex Environmental Health Officer Id jump at the chance lol


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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

There's some right sad *******s about. I wish my biggest worry in life was a noisey exhaust. If it's stock then he has nothing to worry about. If he's not driving it in an anti social manner then the police can't give you a s59 seizure notice.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

If it's standard and he's not doing anything anti social tell him to ignore it. Council would put noise measuring device in the complainants house but if he's doing what you say he'll have nothing to worry about.
But I'd get him to give it a good rev one morning just to wind the neighbours up😂

Peoples perception of noise is different, our neighbour has a diesel campervan. When he goes to work early it drives wife mad but I sleep through it or if awake don't notice it! He never revs it etc just idles it in winter while he scrapes windows. 

It'll be a female neighbour, they hear noise differently😂


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## mar00 (Jun 24, 2018)

nbray67 said:


> Any noise abatement issues have got to be above a certain db for a certain amount of time coupled with disturbing the peace of more than one individual surely?


i would agree probably would come under anti social behavior, but would need to be sustained behaviour,

if its a factory spec car it would meet noise levels for UK, but as already mentioned on cold start the exhaust valve opens and is louder mine is a lot deeper sound, but as its can also be used during normal driving on a public road it should still meet noise levels for UK, unless there is some loophole as its switchable,

not sure if MOT stations are measuring db level yet but i believe it's going to be introduced,


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Ralphy87 said:


> My friend has a 2 year old M3 an he cutt out the rear silencers in the exhausts to give it a raspier note its all been welded back up and you would never know unless you where looking for it,it is defo a bit louder than the standard exhaust get him to check his as there could be evidence of this.This is a mod some M3 owners do to save the expense of paying through the roof for the likes of a Milltek or akrapovic hope that could help


Yes that's exactly what I was thinking, Paul the welders conversion if bought second hand.

SB if he pops over to M3 Cutters they may know if cutters car if any mods done, the flaps may have been left open and cable disconnected?
easy way is as soon as start engage gear and drive away slowly, cold start shuts down, same as on mine.

As Mat said above if standard then it passed all legislation at time so should not be an issue, just a neighbour with too much time on his hands if it was not noise it would be something else I bet.

If bought used BMW often are sloppy and miss mods when they sell , a few recent ones on cutters have found out their new cars had mods that BMW would usually not warranty

Get him over to cutters there is a great bunch in the F8x part but you need a thick skin at times


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## SBM (Jul 4, 2013)

Sounds (excuse the pun!) like the "neighbour" is jealous really - especially as the complaint is anonymous. I would say check with the garage first - you never know there may be some sort of mechanical cause which could be fixed. But if all is correct and decibels etc are within limits then nothing to worry about.


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## Steveom2 (Jul 29, 2018)

You can code out the cold start on BMW’s :thumb: its function is to warm up the cats for emissions  I have a m performance on my m2 and start mine up at 4.30 am and I dread to think my what my neighbors think


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## brooklandsracer (Mar 3, 2017)

If it was I in his shoes than first thing I would do is take the letter down to the BMW garage and show the manager the letter and explain my concerns.
The manager should be able to put your mind at ease or if he not sure then pass the letter up to someone above him.
Sure they will re assure him all is ok, especially with no modifications to the motor.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

Do you actually have to wait for the 1 to 2 minutes before driving?

Could the guy just pull off using low revs to keep things as quiet as possible?


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

This has been said a few times but if this was me...I'd ignore it. 

To me, the fact they've not included who they are suggests they don't like confrontation, it also suggests this is more of a nuisance to them than an actual problem and would seem like they think they're that important, one little letter would scare your friend into doing something (what would they suggest, that he sells it? anybody can tell if a car looks like a sporty one or not, even the most non car people on the planet).

The only issue I see, is this could escalate, not with enviro health as I think if they did come out, it'd all be fine. If the neighbours are winding themselves up about the noise, one day they will make themselves known in some form or other.

For the time being, I'd ignore it.

My E39 has the rear silencer removed, same goes for an E36 a couple of doors down, I do feel a bit conscientious late at night but it's quieter than a neighbours VW who's diesel engine sounds like it's coming through the windows :lol:

Life's too short, if he's being respectable like you say, just wait and see what happens next. Maybe get a CCTV camera to look over the car as if it's some elderly neighbour or something, I'm sure they'd prob look at it maybe to take the reg or something or stand outside maybe close chatting about it, see if you can do some spy work.


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## streaky (Dec 2, 2006)

Andy from Sandy said:


> Do you actually have to wait for the 1 to 2 minutes before driving?
> 
> Could the guy just pull off using low revs to keep things as quiet as possible?


That's what I would do unless I was having to scrape ice from the windows


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## percymon (Jun 27, 2007)

Check is there are any mods as previously stated, use the cutters board for help / ideas

Start car and drive off as soon as possible - might be a petty neighbour but if he can minimise the 'intrusion' then it might be enough to prevent further aggravation


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

If your friend is 100% sure that the car is absolutely standard then I'd simply post a very politely worded note through all the neighbours letterboxes stating that an anonymous note has been sent to you complaining about the car. 

Note should then state that the car is completely standard and therefore meets all noise regulations required to be passed in order for the vehicle to be legally sold in the UK. 

Conclude the note inviting the "anonymous" complainant to come and speak face to face to resolve / discuss

Puts the ball firmly back in the miserable gits court


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I had the same thing with an old neighbour about my cars and bikes..

They never had the guts to talk to me, but put a complaint into the council.

Man came round, I started up the quiet car and bikes and he left.

job done.. 

Thankfully the RS6 was in the garage being fixed (again) and they didn't know what bikes were "too loud" :lol:

I found out what person complained and had a little chat with them face to face and they never bothered me again.

:thumb:


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Starbuck88 said:


> This has been said a few times but if this was me...I'd ignore it.


That would be me as well.

Ok so if your mate is firing it up, revving it, wheel spinning and being a t*t then then he should stop. If it's idling a few minutes before he pulls away and it's a completely stock car, then tough sh!t.

There are noisy motorbikes on adjacent roads to me, there's even an M3 that drives locally that pops and bangs but does it make me cry? No, who cares. My CLS isn't exactly quiet but again the neighbours wouldn't care.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> I had the same thing with an old neighbour about my cars and bikes..
> 
> They never had the guts to talk to me, but put a complaint into the council.
> 
> ...


At least I bet they came in handy for the foundations for that new Patio Cuey?:lol:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Derekh929 said:


> At least I bet they came in handy for the foundations for that new Patio Cuey?:lol:


:tumbleweed:


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## weedougall78 (Nov 4, 2017)

Some people really need to get out more.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Derekh929 said:


> Yes that's exactly what I was thinking, Paul the welders conversion if bought second hand.
> 
> SB if he pops over to M3 Cutters they may know if cutters car if any mods done, the flaps may have been left open and cable disconnected?
> easy way is as soon as start engage gear and drive away slowly, cold start shuts down, same as on mine.
> ...


There are no mods done to the car what so ever Derek, the car is an ex demonstrator and the branch manager had it for a while, it's only done 6,000 miles.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Steve0rs6 said:


> You can code out the cold start on BMW's :thumb: its function is to warm up the cats for emissions  I have a m performance on my m2 and start mine up at 4.30 am and I dread to think my what my neighbors think


Thank you Steve, that's a good idea, but can this be done on the S55 engine? And will it cause problems with the cold start?


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

brooklandsracer said:


> If it was I in his shoes than first thing I would do is take the letter down to the BMW garage and show the manager the letter and explain my concerns.
> The manager should be able to put your mind at ease or if he not sure then pass the letter up to someone above him.
> Sure they will re assure him all is ok, especially with no modifications to the motor.





Andy from Sandy said:


> Do you actually have to wait for the 1 to 2 minutes before driving?
> 
> Could the guy just pull off using low revs to keep things as quiet as possible?


From what I have been told, the revs stay a little higher and would make little difference, the revs would probably go even higher, that's why he waits for a minute or two for the revs to settle down before driving.


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## Tricky Red (Mar 3, 2007)

Our neighbour posted some rubbish through our letterbox that blew out of a skip on our land on a particularly windy day. I had been at pains to secure it earlier but they took this as their little bit of pleasure. Didn't have the guts to knock on and complain. Also wrote a note on the door to say that our workman had been 'loud' that day and told us to sort it out. Sad entities. They need to get out more. 

I'm sure the car is fine.


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## Derek Mc (Jun 27, 2006)

Soul boy 68 said:


> Thanks Mat, but are you sure of this?


I am with this 100% if indeed the car is factory stock and he would nail his c*** to the block proving it then let the neighbours go swivel. There are millions of far more important issues to worry about than some BMW exhaust and it will be seen as wasting council time.

BMW spend a fortune to ensure their car is legally compliant as well, but,,,he could pre-empt this by contacting the council to tell them what has happened to him as this could also be construed as harassment


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Derek Mc said:


> I am with this 100% if indeed the car is factory stock and he would nail his c*** to the block proving it then let the neighbours go swivel. There are millions of far more important issues to worry about than some BMW exhaust and it will be seen as wasting council time.
> 
> BMW spend a fortune to ensure their car is legally compliant as well, but,,,he could pre-empt this by contacting the council to tell them what has happened to him as this could also be construed as harassment


That's the way they have performance exhausts with buttons on them saying track only mode


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Derek Mc said:


> I am with this 100% if indeed the car is factory stock and he would nail his c*** to the block proving it then let the neighbours go swivel. There are millions of far more important issues to worry about than some BMW exhaust and it will be seen as wasting council time.
> 
> BMW spend a fortune to ensure their car is legally compliant as well, but,,,he could pre-empt this by contacting the council to tell them what has happened to him as this could also be construed as harassment


That is a good idea Derek, It does sound like harassment. Might be worth me telling him to get in touch with the council.


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## rojer386 (Mar 15, 2008)

If like my M140i on the cold start cycle you gently depress the accelerator, the revs and noise drop. However, the cold start is there for a reason IMO and should be allowed to do its intended job.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Soul boy 68 said:


> That is a good idea Derek, It does sound like harassment. Might be worth me telling him to get in touch with the council.


SB - I'm afraid this isn't harassment in the eyes of the law. Harassment is behaviour that makes you feel uncomfortable or threatened when related specifically to those protected characteristics as detailed in the Equality Act, I.e. gender, religious
belief, sexual orientation etc.

I genuinely think there's nothing your friend can do unless the neighbour makes themselves known to him, so he can have a friendly chat, or the neighbour makes a complaint to the council, and they come out to measure the noise levels.

Tell him to forget about it in the meantime.

Cooks

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Sawel (Aug 5, 2016)

You friend has done absolutely nothing wrong. Unfortunately, some neighbours are idiots.

My F-Type R cold start is comical. It is never turned on before 8. It is my 'good weather' car and I have a work van. When I do take it out then the earliest I turn it on is 10am because I'm not an early morning person. I also moved house recently and there is good space between my house and the neighbours and the location is fairly rural so I'm lucky in that sense.


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## John_H (Jan 5, 2007)

I’m on my 4th m3 all of which have been standard. I routinely get people telling me to slow down or it’s too noisy when I’m pootling around town at normal speeds, my wife even had someone complain to her about me. She told them to report it if there was a problem which of course they didn’t do.

Unfortunately it’s part and parcel of having something different these days. Everyone has an opinion and they think it matters!

Tell your mate to ignore it or alternatively one morning rev the stones off it so they know what noisy really sounds like. The next morning will sound idyllic by comparison!


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## Boothy (Aug 19, 2010)

I wouldn't waste your time doing anything at all. Screw the letter up and file it under B, providing its standard. Don't go storing things up and just ignore it. When the letter becomes abusive or threatening THEN you take action. Until then its just petty ****** from a neighbour who clearly can't speak to people. If there are other options to take that would reduce the noise that's simple the fair enough, try to keep your neighbours sweet. Other than than I wouldnt worry about it in the slightest. 

Sent from my LG-H930 using Tapatalk


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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

I would ignor it, they haven't got a leg to stand on.

I would however be slightly concerned that someone so petty might also be the sort to walk past and put a nice key scrape down the side one day.

Does he keep it garaged or have cctv pointing at the drive?


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Cookies said:


> SB - I'm afraid this isn't harassment in the eyes of the law. Harassment is behaviour that makes you feel uncomfortable or threatened when related specifically to those protected characteristics as detailed in the Equality Act, I.e. gender, religious
> belief, sexual orientation etc.
> 
> I genuinely think there's nothing your friend can do unless the neighbour makes themselves known to him, so he can have a friendly chat, or the neighbour makes a complaint to the council, and they come out to measure the noise levels.
> ...


When I asked about the letter, my mate said it was posted anonymously so he sees it as harassment. He has reported it to the police who have advised that he keeps the letter, should he get three letters then the police will view it as harassment and will look to try and investigate. The letter has a date of postage via second class.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Harry_p said:


> I would ignor it, they haven't got a leg to stand on.
> 
> I would however be slightly concerned that someone so petty might also be the sort to walk past and put a nice key scrape down the side one day.
> 
> Does he keep it garaged or have cctv pointing at the drive?


It's kept on the drive and it has CCTV present.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Things have taken a twist, my friend thinks it's the neighbor across the road because in one occasion a few weeks ago the neighbor made a passing comment about how loud the exhaust not e is. And these neighbors are the old bill. Of course he can't prove it's them but he is convinced it is them.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Boothy said:


> I wouldn't waste your time doing anything at all. Screw the letter up and file it under B, providing its standard. Don't go storing things up and just ignore it. When the letter becomes abusive or threatening THEN you take action. Until then its just petty ****** from a neighbour who clearly can't speak to people. If there are other options to take that would reduce the noise that's simple the fair enough, try to keep your neighbours sweet. Other than than I wouldnt worry about it in the slightest.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H930 using Tapatalk


There's no other option to reduce a cold start, it's there to do a job and there's nothing eleagal about it, we are talking about a couple of minutes over the course of a Saturday and Sunday morning. It's life an drew people need to go about there business without feeling that they are doing something wrong.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

His neighbours are lucky its not a C63 or F Type R, both are considerably louder. My Mini makes a racket when cold and if its reversed up to the garage the sound gets boxed in and seems even louder. He is welcome to move next to me, i have no objections to loud exhausts. Some people have nothing better to do.


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## Sawel (Aug 5, 2016)

SteveTDCi said:


> His neighbours are lucky its not a C63 or F Type R, both are considerably louder. My Mini makes a racket when cold and if its reversed up to the garage the sound gets boxed in and seems even louder. He is welcome to move next to me, i have no objections to loud exhausts. Some people have nothing better to do.


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## Jasonjo (Jan 2, 2019)

If he's really bothered he can use a tune to remove the cold start like this: 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Jasonjo said:


> If he's really bothered he can use a tune to remove the cold start like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Jason, this video will come very useful


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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

I wouldn't want to touch the ecu or coding on anything that new and still under warranty just in case it ever needed any work.


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## no1chunk (Nov 18, 2012)

All cars built new are built to specific requirements which are things like emissions and db etc to make it legal if no modifications have been carried out on the exhaust system there is nothing the neighbour can do as the car is completly legal. Theres prob nothing the dealer can to quieten the noise down so the neighbour would just have suck it up and accept it. Prob jealous he cant afford one.


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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

Cold start can be mapped out not that the fella should do it, ignore the letter and carry on.


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## SBM (Jul 4, 2013)

Soul boy 68 said:


> Things have taken a twist, my friend thinks it's the neighbor across the road because in one occasion a few weeks ago the neighbor made a passing comment about how loud the exhaust not e is. And these neighbors are the old bill. Of course he can't prove it's them but he is convinced it is them.


In this case then again as I said before, get the car checked at BMW to ensure all is well and compliant. then the neighbour has nothing to go on.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

SBM said:


> In this case then again as I said before, get the car checked at BMW to ensure all is well and compliant. then the neighbour has nothing to go on.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS

I wouldn't be tuning out a cold start. I get he doesn't want to **** of neighbours etc but that video is a bit of a different story, if he's starting in a garage built into his house that is literally directly below the bedrooms, I can understand when there's a kid involved etc

Get the car checked, then just leave it. Let him get reported as there is absolutely nothing then they can do. Nothing.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

I am not totally believing posters who say the neighbour can do nothing as the car is stock.

If someone complains that a car is outside the house on a high tick over for what appears to be an unreasonable amount of time they may be asked to start the car and drive off immediately it is safe to do so like the windows are clear.

It would certainly of been more constructive though for the neighbour to of gone and had a chat with your friend first.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Andy from Sandy said:


> I am not totally believing posters who say the neighbour can do nothing as the car is stock.
> 
> If someone complains that a car is outside the house on a high tick over for what appears to be an unreasonable amount of time they may be asked to start the car and drive off immediately it is safe to do so like the windows are clear.


Just playing devils advocate here...

He's letting the car do what it needs to warm up, he's following manufacturers guidelines and does it only a couple of times per week. He's not doing at unsociable hours either. EDIT: Would seem manufacturer recommends driving off.

What can the neighbour do? If it's reported to the council they can monitor it etc but as has been said already they won't/can't do anything.

Which leaves what? Neighbour getting violent either against him or the vehicle?

EDIT "


Andy from Sandy said:


> It would certainly of been more constructive though for the neighbour to of gone and had a chat with your friend first.


"

Amen to this. ^^^


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

Taken from the 2016 M3 owners manual

Drive away immediately
Do not wait for the engine to warm-up while
the vehicle remains stationary. Start driving
right away, but at moderate engine speeds.
This is the quickest way of warming the cold
engine up to operating temperature.

This is what the council can cite. Also that is what the manufacturer would have to say should be done.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Andy from Sandy said:


> Taken from the 2016 M3 owners manual
> 
> Drive away immediately
> Do not wait for the engine to warm-up while
> ...


You beat me to it...


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Andy from Sandy said:


> Taken from the 2016 M3 owners manual
> 
> Drive away immediately
> Do not wait for the engine to warm-up while
> ...


How about on a cold winters morning then, Would anyone drive off without demisting the windows and scrapping ice off the side windows. Wouldn't that be dangerous.? All because he doesn't want to disturb the neighbours. I think there needs to be common sense.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

Of course you clear the windows and I would do that after starting the engine. And I would hope all neighbours would be understanding off this.

Yes I would modify the owners manual to start driving right away when it is safe to do so.

Trying to be helpful by showing your friend can't say he has to let the car warm up first before driving.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Andy from Sandy said:


> Of course you clear the windows and I would do that after starting the engine. And I would hope all neighbours would be understanding off this.
> 
> Yes I would modify the owners manual to start driving right away when it is safe to do so.
> 
> Trying to be helpful by showing your friend can't say he has to let the car warm up first before driving.


Maybe It's something my friend will have to do, drive off straight away, But with the revs higher during the warm up phase, wouldn't it make the matter worse as when pulling away with the revs at 1100 RPM, the revs will at least double that being his foot would be on the accelerator thus making the exhaust noise sound worse. Just a thought.


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## gatecrasher3 (Jul 21, 2006)

I can't believe he is giving it a second thought.

If he uses it as and when described then he should continue to do so.

There is no onus on him to do anything at this stage and I suspect the brave neighbours that posted an anonymous letter instead of knocking on his door know this as well.

I'm all for getting on with the neighbours but it has to work both ways.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

I still personally think, he's not doing anything wrong, regardless of the owners manual. It's a little bit of noise for a couple of minutes out of a 24 hour day.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

gatecrasher3 said:


> I can't believe he is giving it a second thought.
> 
> If he uses it as and when described then he should continue to do so.
> 
> ...


At this point the owner is under the impression he has to sit and wait for the engine revs to drop. The manual shows otherwise. That is the only point I make.

I have been driving diesel engines now for 18 years. I can pull away at tick over if necessary. I don't know the M3 or how it drives at low rpms.

I would also wait for the neighbour to come and have a chat before making any particular change to my driving habits.

Please take note in all of my postings I do not say what I think your friend should actually do.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Andy from Sandy said:


> At this point the owner is under the impression he has to sit and wait for the engine revs to drop. The manual shows otherwise. That is the only point I make.
> 
> I have been driving diesel engines now for 18 years. I can pull away at tick over if necessary. I don't know the M3 or how it drives at low rpms.
> 
> I would also wait for the neighbour to come and have a chat before making any particular change to my driving habits.


This is why the conversation has muddied slightly.

Does he need to leave car to warm up at idle, No. Petrol wash could cause premature wear. We don't live in the 1970s anymore.

One article of many:

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a19086/warming-up-your-car-in-the-cold-just-harms-engine/

However, is he actually doing anybody any harm really for a few minutes on a weekend, mid morning. No.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Starbuck88 said:


> This is why the conversation has muddied slightly.
> 
> Does he need to leave car to warm up at idle, No. Petrol wash could cause premature wear. We don't live in the 1970s anymore.
> 
> ...


That's a really interesting article Starbuck, I'll pass the link over to my mate.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Andy from Sandy said:


> At this point the owner is under the impression he has to sit and wait for the engine revs to drop. The manual shows otherwise. That is the only point I make.
> 
> I have been driving diesel engines now for 18 years.


I wouldn't want you living next to me :lol:


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## griffin1907 (Mar 4, 2006)

I used to own a highly nodded Subaru Impreza import. That had the obligatory burble. One day I came home from work to my neighbour raging like hell about my car being too loud & how he was going to get me done.

The following day I rang environmental health myself. I explained the situation and was told if I didn't deliberately rev the engine etc I had nothing at all to worry about.

I never heard anything at all about noise.
I'd not worry at all.


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## beatty599 (Sep 18, 2016)

As long as he's not revving it like a youth in a car park, they can't do anything. Keep the CCTV and even up it to more cameras just to protect the car.


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

I'd ignore it. There will be no evidence of wrong-doing and therefore no case to answer. Letter author sounds like a right miserable sod, in my view they can go and chew on a bag of d**ks.


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

Just because the manual states to drive off straight away doesn't mean you abide by it.
I leave my diesel tractor (saab) running for around 5 minutes if its frosted over at 5:15 am, and even if it's not. Heated seats as re bliss when it's cold

Do you check you lights everytime you drive your vehicle, absolutely not
Theres plenty we are meant to do in regards to owning and maintaining vehicles but dont on a regular basis.

I'd personally be ignoring this and I'd probably make a little more noise to get they guy to be a man and come and speak to me face to face so I can explain it's how the car is made, it's not modified etc.


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## Ashley6 (Oct 7, 2012)

I have an M4, you don't sit an idle. You start it and go, cold start lasts for around 30 seconds of driving and limits the rpm range, its louder due to open wastegates (i believe) to warm the cats to operating temp and i believe (again, not 100%) that this is more effective when the car is driving.

I never sit and idle mine. The things makes a right rattly racket, they sound horrendous when cold.

Another option....decat and map out the cold start, then remove the secondary cats aswell and play with 550bhp


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## gatecrasher3 (Jul 21, 2006)

Ashley6 said:


> its louder due to open wastegates (i believe) to warm the cats to operating temp and i believe (again, not 100%) that this is more effective when the car is driving.


You're right it is down to the wastegates and it lasts for barely any time at all. It's the same on my M135.

Luckily though none of my neighbours have been round to enforce the BMW driving manual instructions on how to operate my vehicle!


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