# Maximising cut with Menz FG500 on a DA.



## johandc (May 8, 2011)

Hello DW.

I have been trying to do some defect removal (acid etching and RDS) on my VW Golf IV bonnet using DAS 6 Pro, Menzerna Fast Gloss FG500 and the Lake Country Hydrotech Blue Compounding pad. This should seemingly be a very agressive combo, but i am still struggling to achieve enough correction.

I have primed the pad using a spritz of ONR diluted with water in the QD ratio. Then i have used no more than 3 peas of product. Spread with a setting of 2 on the DAS6 Pro and worked on speed 4-5 for 2-3 minutes till the product goes clear. I have then used 1:1 IPA wipedown to check for defects. It does a very good job of removing swirls, but i still see RDS and the etching. Even after 3-4 passes of the above combo.

I have also tried lightly spritzing the area with water/QD in order to prolong the working time of the product, (see the "slow cut method" in dave KG's guide). I don't know about the effectiveness of this when using a compound with diminishing abrasives, but it does not seem to be adding a whole lot more cut to the situation.

I have tried ramping up the pressure on the machine for different passes, and have found that it works better when given a firm pressure. But i do not want to press any harder at the current point. I can see that the pad is compressed quite a bit and hear the engine being loaded. The backing plate spins more that 3 times per second with my current pressure.

So, given that i do not want to buy a rotary at the current time, what are my options to improve the cut with the above products?

Best regards,
Johan.


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## AcN (Nov 3, 2010)

You still have the Kevin Brown method, but it kinda requires non-disminishing compounds/polishes :

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=136884

Also it will depend how deep the scratch is.. can you feel it with your nail ? At some point the best bet would be wetsanding those bad scratches.


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## DAN: (Apr 18, 2010)

Paint correction is normally done with a decent rotary polisher, Dual actions are for polishing and buffing.

you may correct some soft paints with a DA but you are merely tickeling it on a vw


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## DE 1981 (Aug 17, 2007)

^^ sorry mate thats just not true, if you follow anything of the detailing from top guy in the us most are using da's for heavy correction work.

The surbuf/mf is being hailed as game changing technology, something I've been using myself for a wee while.


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

Wow that was a long read... One point on which Kevin Brown really put a lot of weight is the priming. I noticed that after polishing i can still see the three points where i originally added the product on the pad. This may indicate that I'm not using the entire pad area effectively. So after reading this, I will try priming the pad by applying the product to the pad and spreading it by hand, to the level where it fills the entire pad. Before the first polishing.

If this does not work out, i think i will buy and try the M105 with non diminishing abrasives, and after that move to surbuf or the new megs MF pads. Even though i haven't heard so much about the later. Also, i can't find them on CYC or PB? So where can if find these pads?


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## AcN (Nov 3, 2010)

Long but interesting read 

I'm not sure about the Meg MF polishing system but i don't think it reached the european continent yet, but you can find it on autogeek.net : http://www.autogeek.net/meguiars-da-microfiber-system.html
But there are many retailers here so you might have a chance to find it ^^


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

Just ordered some M105 together with 3 pads (Menz 3,5" compounding pad, a LC CCS 4" cutting compounding pad, and a LC Hydroteck 4" compounding pad.)

I hope that this, together with a proper pad priming, would be able to remove my defects.

Otherwise i see no option than to order a rotary... :lol: 
Or even try those abralon sanding discs :doublesho


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

DAN: said:


> Paint correction is normally done with a decent rotary polisher, Dual actions are for polishing and buffing.
> 
> you may correct some soft paints with a DA but you are merely tickeling it on a vw


I corrected my Merc with a DA, it wasn't bad to start with but it did the job nicely.


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## Kevin Brown (May 10, 2008)

Hi.

My post only relates to the discussion pertaining to defect removal via random orbital, not about the liquids you mentioned. Sorry for that, and hope it's okay.

Defect removal via _random orbital_ and _forced rotation orbital_ machines... it's the real deal all right.

The *Surbuf Microfinger Pads* are fantastic for not only defect removal, but surface leveling, too.

The *Meguiar's DA Microfiber Discs* handle the defects incredibly well, and come very close to leveling to the same degree as the Suruf's. The kicker is... you can finish out LSP-ready with the Meguiar's discs.

To mechanically optimize the DA Discs, the pad must be supported to the outer edge. Since Meguiar's does not currently offer a backing plate exactly the same diameter, I cut down a Meguiar's W68DA plate to the same size. It cuts very easy- a pair of scissors will work.

A stiffer plate delivers maximum cut, but they're a bit harder to cut down.

At the risk of sounding like a troll/shill, I'll chat about Meguiar's compounds because it is what I use, sell, and have the most experience with.

The DA Microfiber Discs and the D300 Microfiber Correction Compound are truly impressive. We were product testing this past week, and were able to remove 1500 grit marks no problem with a G110v2.

In fact, our "newbie" girl friend removed 1000 grade marks created by a Foam Finishing Disc (taken from this thread):

Don't Mess With Old Timers



Kevin Brown said:


> I don't know buda, you tell me...
> 
> My good friend Meredith is certainly no professional paint polishing expert:
> 
> ...


If you have M105, M205, or M86 handy, they're compatible, too! Plus- you guys are SOOOO lucky because M101 is available to you. It's a compound designed specifically for use with foam pads and a rotary... but WOW does it work with the microfiber discs! Wow, simply wow.

If you aren't into wanting to use the DA for heavy correction, that's understandable.

But one thing is for sure... if you give it an honest shot, and try to curb thoughts of the random orbital as being merely a "wood sander" or "wax spreader"... I promise a BIG smile and true reflections in your future! :buffer:

This thread is all about using the DA to its full potential:

Pad Priming and Supplemental Wetting Agents

It's a long read, but you can certainly read it in sections.


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

Kevin, thank you for convincing me that the correction is indeed possible with the DA. The DAS-6 Pro is practically equivalent to the G220 v2, so the machine should certainly be capable enough.

As i wrote i have now purchased some non diminishing abrasives the M105 and M205, and i hope that together with the right prepping technique will be able to get better results. As you say, your post is not about the polishing liquid, but about using the correct pad. However, i guess that a lot will be different if using diminishing abrasives such as in the menzerna FG500?

Furthermore it seems that Megs in Europe is hesitating to import the DA microfibre system. They say that they are not seeing same results as in the US and therefore would like to conduct more tests before deciding on mass importing. For this reason it is also hard to come by the products. In the UK it's a bit easier since the detailing community is larger, but since i live in Denmark, I rely on british webshops to supply pads and polish. So i hope it will arrive soon at places like CleanYourCar.co.uk and/or PolishedBliss.co.uk.


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

Ended up wet-sanding the problem areas of the bonnet. Which meant almost the entire bonnet must be sanded. Here i am tackling the problems with a 2000 grit wet-sanding, also correcting some hundreds of stone chips at the same time.










After Menz FG500, PF2500 and some Wax.


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## AcN (Nov 3, 2010)

Good to know you wetsanded the bonnet 

How is the final result ? (looks good from the pic, but since it lacks a bit of direct light, i'm asking )


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

I honestly don't know yet, I don't have a sun gun and since all day have been raining. I'm awaiting a good day to see the outcome.

I did manage to remove the bird poop etching completely, but some of the bigger stone chips are still visible. I finished with menz PF2500, but am expecting to give it some FF3000 and poorboys black hole once that arrives on Wednesday.

I find it really easy to refine 2000 grit sanding marks with FG500 on a spot pad. Also tried with PF2500 on a big pad, but found that it required two passes. 

My biggest concern is how to apply the clear laquer to the stone chips...


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

I just completed a 4 hrs, 4 stage polish of my roof today. Using Lake country HT blue compounding pad, i was again struggling to get a decent cut with the Menz S500. So i tried the recently bought M105. First one set of passes of 3-5 min with quite hard preassure, then a spritz of QD (ONR), and continued on for 2-3 min with lighther preassure. This gave me a better cut i believe, and when finished the pad looks clean. I decided to go for this combo and do the entire roof. Mostly i had to go two or three times with the M105 to remove all swirls, so it took some time and some hard preassure on the pad. (I'm sorry no pictures of the results, it's a cold and cloudy day, and didn't bring my camera) - Just to complete the story, i finished off with Menz FF3000 and the crimson finishing pad, then a layer of Black Hole and sealed off with optimum opti-seal. 

With the Menz S500 it seems to dry out after only one pass (ca. 30 seconds), and when i finish after 3-5 minutes, most of it still seems dried out in the pad. I am standing outside in the shade on a mild day with about 14 degrees celcius. So it's not the temperature. And no, i'm not overapplying product either (only 3 pea sized drops), and frome time to time a spritz of QD, when i felt for it. But in case of the menz S500, this didn't seem to improve the situation.

Any tips on how i can get the menzerna S500 working correctly with a DA?


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

Sun came out, so I went down to take some pictures.

An unpolished area of the car:









So after 2-3x M105, and some Menz S500, followed by FF3000, PB Black Hole and opti-seal:









The roof and the sun still shows quite a few larger scratches 









I don't know if it would be worth taking the sandpaper to all those larger scratches too. I think i counted around 10-20 larger stonechips in the roof, and one of them with rust in it! So quite some repairs needs to be done in order for it to be perfect.


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## Kevin Brown (May 10, 2008)

Cut down backing plates. This works very well for foam pads, too.



Kevin Brown said:


> ...To mechanically optimize the DA Discs, the pad must be supported to the outer edge.
> Since Meguiar's does not currently offer a backing plate exactly the same diameter, I cut down a Meguiar's W68DA plate to the same size.
> It cuts very easy- a pair of scissors will work...


I used a carpet razor knife to cut these plates, then sanded the edges using 80 grit and then 150 grit sandpaper. 
The studs were chucked in a handheld electric drill, and I pushed the knife into the foam as the plate was spinning. 
Then, I sanded in the same manner. Make sure to wear eye protection!

*This is the Meguiar's W68DA, backside shot:*









*This is the Meguiar's W68DA, face shot:
*









Notice that the Velcro® does not cover the entire plate. 
It was designed for the 2.0 Soft Buff pads. 
I cut the pad down to within a couple millimeters of the Velcro®.

*The cut down version is set atop the uncut version:
*









*This is how it looks once the backing plate is mounted to the disc:
*









*This is the recommended W67DA set atop the cut down W68DA:
*











Kevin Brown said:


> ...A stiffer plate delivers maximum cut, but they're a bit harder to cut down.


I used a Mirka 106GG because I had some in stock, and they have proven to be bulletproof for me:

*Mirka 106GG:
*









*The cut down version set atop the uncut version:
*









*This is how it looks once the backing plate is mounted to the disc:
*









Obviously, if you use the stiff plate, you'll need to be careful on curved surfaces. The W68DA is soft, so even it it happened to contact a surface accidentally, damage potential would be comparatively low.

But!- for leveling, severe defect removal, for defect or sanding mark removal next to body trim, etc., and final polishing, the discs have delivered much better results for me when they are supported to the outer edge. My best guess would be somewhere in the 30% improved range for cutting potential, and an immeasurable amount for finish polishing.

This post is being added to the Kevin Brown Method Thread as well as the Pad Priming and Supplemental Wetting Agents thread, both located in the DW Detailing Guide section.

Good luck!


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## Kevin Brown (May 10, 2008)

johandc said:


> ... However, i guess that a lot will be different if using diminishing abrasives such as in the menzerna FG500?...


I get asked about diminishing abrasives, and pad priming a lot.

I don't think that there's going to be much of a problem if you use a diminishing abrasive. It would be wise to use a longer polishing cycle, drop the speed a bit, and keep the pad fluffy by brushing it with a nylon brush, _during_ one application cycle. This way, and particles that have not fully diminished will have a better chance at being broken apart.

Buff longer so there is ample time for the particles to tumble between the pad and paint surface.

Drop the speed so that the fibers don't mash down as quickly, or at least not all in the same backwards direction of backing plate rotation.

Brush the pad to redistribute the abrasives, and expose potentially hidden away particles.

Then, after you've eliminated defects, clean the mf disc via compressed air, or by running the face of the disc into a microfiber towel.

Finally, use a slow speed setting and repolish the area, slow arm movement, slow backing plate rotation, normal pressure.



johandc said:


> ...Furthermore it seems that Megs in Europe is hesitating to import the DA microfibre system. They say that they are not seeing same results as in the US and therefore would like to conduct more tests before deciding on mass importing...


In my opinion... that is *ridiculous*. The fact is... these discs are selling like crazy here in the U.S., and it's simply a matter of distribution, supply and demand. To say that they can't get the same results.. c'mon, the land of DW, and all you persnickety detailers?! This system was worldwide tested.


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

Hi KB,

Thanks again for your very detailed replies. I see that we are now starting to go off in different sub-discussions, which of course is no problem in at all. I'll just be answering your three different replies with three new questions below 



> I don't think that there's going to be much of a problem if you use a diminishing abrasive. It would be wise to use a longer polishing cycle, drop the speed a bit, and keep the pad fluffy by brushing it with a nylon brush, during one application cycle. This way, and particles that have not fully diminished will have a better chance at being broken apart.
> 
> Buff longer so there is ample time for the particles to tumble between the pad and paint surface.


Okay, so it seems you are referring to the use of an diminishing abrasive polish with the microfibre pads, whereas is was only referring to how i could maximise the output of the new menzerna FG500 with my LC HT Blue Cutting pad and DA polisher.

I guess i have a quite specific case here, and as you can see from the later replies in this thread, i have come to solve my problems by using sanding at first, and later trying M105. However, i have still not the answer for what i'm doing wrong with the Fast Gloss 500. It seems the product dries out quite quickly and also dusts a bit, even if i don't use very much product and the pad is unprimed. (i think i read that your pad priming recommendation only goes for non-diminishing abrasives such as megs SMAT.) The next time i will try to prolong the working time by being less agressive. You would not recommend using extra lubricant on a menz polish would you?

And to this last point i do have another question for you, not about the Menz but about the M105 you made me get. With M105, a properly primed foam pad and a DA, would you start out on a new section by spreading the polish around on a slow speed, or would you start out instantly at full speed at one point and then move the polish along with you? The reason why i'm asking is that i've seen some suggestion that spreading the polish first would make it flash / dry out much quicker... But i guess you would just recommend adding a spritz of lubricant then?

Oh, and BTW, i don't have Megs LT, so i use ONR in a QD dilution, i think it would give the same result.



> Cut down backing plates. This works very well for foam pads, too.


Okay, but i use Lake Country HT pads, where the velcro part only goes to about 5-7 mm from the edge. As you may see on this rather small image:










My current 5" backing plate already covers just the white area of the velcro pretty much exactly. Increasing to a larger backing pad would not help, since it would extrude outwards, but not be touching the pad on the outer edge.



> In my opinion... that is ridiculous. The fact is... these discs are selling like crazy here in the U.S., and it's simply a matter of distribution, supply and demand. To say that they can't get the same results.. c'mon, the land of DW, and all you persnickety detailers?! This system was worldwide tested.


Nevertheless, my search for either the megs DA microfibre pads, or the surbuf pads, in a EU based webstore has failed so far...

Could anyone point me out to a place where these fantastic pads could be bought in the EU?


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## Kevin Brown (May 10, 2008)

johandc said:


> ... It seems you are referring to the use of a diminishing abrasive polish with the microfiber pads, whereas I was referring to how I could maximise the output of the new menzerna FG500 with my LC HT Blue cutting pad and a DA polisher...
> 
> ... However, I have still not the answer for what I'm doing wrong with the Fast Gloss 500. It seems the product dries out quite quickly and also dusts a bit, even if i don't use very much product, and the pad is unprimed. (I think I read that your pad priming recommendation only goes for non-diminishing abrasives such as megs SMAT.)...
> 
> ...You would not recommend using extra lubricant on a menz polish, would you?...


Again, I have no experience with the FG500. 
I am sure there are better guys to answer your questions... the fellows that are claiming FG500 has more cut and less dusting versus M105, and less fillers. They've likely got tremendous depth of knowledge with this product, especially compared to me. I don't typically have cutting or dusting issues with M105, but I digress.

I can only speak from the perspective of, "You are polishing automotive paint using a DA that is outfitted with a foam, non-reticulated cutting pad, and you're using a polish that features diminishing abrasives". Let's analyze using the mechanical aspects of your problem.

For diminishing abrasives to work well, the clumps of abrasives must be pulverized via motion. So... they have to be pushed across the surface, or dragged across the surface via attachment to the pad, or they need to be tumbled, which happens as the pad rides atop the abrasive grains, and rotates them.

If the abrasive grains are packed tightly into the pore structure of a pad, they're not going to bust apart due to lack of motion. However, if there's enough motion present, such as the type that a random orbital provides, then there's a pretty good chance that a many of the abrasive grains will fall out of the pores, roll around, bust apart, and then either dust away, attach to the foam, or re-enter the pores of the pad.

If you've got loads of dusting coming from a product that has been specifically designed to be a low dusting product (especially considering the product you are using was made by a company such as Menzerna, world-class), with it seems to me there's a good possibility that the liquid portion of the compound is soaking into the pad, or evaporating away.

Or, the abrasives aren't attaching all that well to the foam, so they basically fall by the wayside. You can inspect the pad to determine whether or not the particles are plentifully present, or the pad looks remarkably clean.

If the particles are immediately falling by the wayside, then your buffing cycle will be obviously short lived. If it were me, and all seemed to be going well (but I had the issues you're having), I would lightly prime the pad using the FG500, and spritz the paint with a light mist of water just as the product seems to have run its cycle (the point at which the abrasives have either attached to the pad, or have started to dust away). The water will create a bit of surface tension, and help pull the particles from the pores as the pad is scuttled across the paint.

I still recommend that you give the pad a light brushing between applications, in hopes of loosening particles that have not had the opportunity to diminish, (or had no exposure to the paint).

It seems reasonable to most guys that excessive dusting comes from using way too much product, but it's been my experience that not using enough leads to dusting issues more often than not, especially due to the reasons already listed.



johandc said:


> ... With M105, a properly primed foam pad and a DA, would you start out on a new section by spreading the polish around on a slow speed, or would you start out instantly at full speed at one point and then move the polish along with you?...


Start instantly at full speed. No reason to spread the polish, no real benefit. In fact laying the polish out there initially means that the edge of the pad will end up acting as a squeegee of sorts, and gather a majority of the abrasives along its edge. This can lead to scouring, or clumping of the abrasive.



johandc said:


> ...Okay, but i use Lake Country HT pads, where the velcro part only goes to about 5-7 mm from the edge...
> 
> ...My current 5" backing plate already covers just the white area of the velcro pretty much exactly. Increasing to a larger backing pad would not help, since it would extrude outwards, but not be touching the pad on the outer edge.


Those pads will work just fine if the backing plate extends to the edge of the Velcro®, as you claim.



johandc said:


> ...Nevertheless, my search for either the megs DA microfibre pads, or the surbuf pads, in a EU based webstore has failed so far... Could anyone point me out to a place where these fantastic pads could be bought in the EU?


You may have to find them elsewhere for now... at least the Meguiar's Microfiber Discs.... they're tremendously popular right now, so we're buying up all they can make in the U.S. Just a hunch, a suspicion. :buffer:

I'd be surprised if you can't find the Surbuf's, though... contact Elmo directly at Surbuf. He's the owner and inventor of the Surbuf pads, and a super nice guy. Help me Elmo!

Kevin


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## Kevin Brown (May 10, 2008)

johandc said:


> ... With the Menz S500 it seems to dry out after only one pass (ca. 30 seconds), and when i finish after 3-5 minutes, most of it still seems dried out in the pad. I am standing outside in the shade on a mild day with about 14 degrees celcius. So it's not the temperature. And no, i'm not overapplying product either (only 3 pea sized drops), and from time to time a spritz of QD, when i felt for it. But in case of the menz S500, this didn't seem to improve the situation.
> 
> Any tips on how i can get the menzerna S500 working correctly with a DA?


Dang, just caught this.

So, the particles are stuck to the pad, and they're not budging... and if they're not getting into the pores of the pad in any quantity, then adding even more compound just makes dust. And... spritzing isn't helping...

Perhaps the abraded paint residue is causing the abrasives to remain stationary on the pad after some "moving around" time?

I would increase the amount of compound, drop my buffer speed so that the pad is still rotating, but not necessarily rapidly, and keep the dang surface wet.

Is the product recommended for use with a DA?
Not a big deal, but it seems to be more appropriate for rotary application. Just trying to see the whole picture here.


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

Menzerna FG500 shouldn't need any QD applied: it should work nicely with no additional liquid. It may be that the extra liquid is affecting the polish slightly? 

You also need to make sure you're spurring the pad to remove polish residue after each panel: the Meguiar's Triple Duty Brush is ideal for this. 

The Cyan pad and FG500 should be correcting a Golf quite nicely: I used RD3.02 and the Cyan pad on my old Golf and it worked really well. 

How large an area are you working?


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## Kevin Brown (May 10, 2008)

John @ PB said:


> Menzerna FG500 shouldn't need any QD applied: it should work nicely with no additional liquid. It may be that the extra liquid is affecting the polish slightly?
> 
> You also need to make sure you're spurring the pad to remove polish residue after each panel: the Meguiar's Triple Duty Brush is ideal for this.
> 
> ...


*See johandc?! There you go!*

I just looked at the Polished Bliss site, and WOW that is one bee-U-tiful place.
Spent quite some time building a site, and it is elementary by comparison. Seriously sharp look to yours.

Wish I knew "who's who" in the UK. Then I could happily say, "Talk to so and so about your issue..."
Now I can say, "Talk to John @ PB!"

Who else should be on my "Short list"? :speechles Let's see... DaveKG, John @ PB, ... that's two.

Back to bed.... a sore and somewhat sleepless night... laptop... zzzzzzz.


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

Kevin Brown said:


> *See johandc?! There you go!*
> 
> I just looked at the Polished Bliss site, and WOW that is one bee-U-tiful place.
> Spent quite some time building a site, and it is elementary by comparison. Seriously sharp look to yours.
> ...


Thanks Kevin; always good to have nice feedback, appreciate it.


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

Kevin Brown said:


> I can only speak from the perspective of, "You are polishing automotive paint using a DA that is outfitted with a foam, non-reticulated cutting pad, and you're using a polish that features diminishing abrasives". Let's analyze using the mechanical aspects of your problem.
> 
> For diminishing abrasives to work well, the clumps of abrasives must be pulverized via motion. So... they have to be pushed across the surface, or dragged across the surface via attachment to the pad, or they need to be tumbled, which happens as the pad rides atop the abrasive grains, and rotates them.
> 
> ...


Good observations, i can only agree with you. I used an unprimed pad, because that's what generally recommended in various guides i found. Then i went on the paint and started by spreading out the product and started a couple of passes. Quickly the low amount of polish i had applied flashed and the residue became clear. When stopping and looking at the pad, the three original points where i have applied the product looked to be clogged up with product, and not have spread around the pad. This would be the time where i decided to apply some QD to rejuvinate the liquid in the polish and free out the abrasives. This did nothing to help free out the abrasives from the pad, which seemed to be quite stuck.

I think what i did wrong was:
1) I did not prime my pad
2) I spread the product to begin with, and thereby allowed it to dry faster
3) I used a high speed and high preassure (the pad was down to 1 RPM)

The next time i will:
1) Prime the pad using FG500
2) Start buffing immediately, without spreading the product around
3) Be buffing at a DA speed of 6 but with a lighter preassure, so the RPM get in the range of more than 2 but where the engine is still bogged down a bit.

After each polish i am spurring the pad as also recommended by John and i'm not working an area larger than 50x50 cm.

The next time i will take some pictures during the process.


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

John @ PB said:


> Menzerna FG500 shouldn't need any QD applied: it should work nicely with no additional liquid. It may be that the extra liquid is affecting the polish slightly?


Thank you. The next time i will try to prime the pad first, and work at a lower amount of preassure to try and prevent the polish from drying out. I will keep off the QD bottle at first, take some pictures, spur the pad and make a few attempts.

Perhaps the FG500 just isn't as suited for the DA as the #105. I will soon find out some more.


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

Brand new 4" Lacke Country HT Blue Compounding pad


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

Pad is now primed









Applying working product










Work area after 1 pass at speed 4, medium pressure










Pad after 1 pass









Pad after 3 passes


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

After more polishing









And more...










This is the finished result after polishing the section for about 5 minutes.









Before:










After:


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

So the pad was primed, but still, the product ended up stuck in the middle.
Cleaning yields a somewhat clean pad:









But now it seemed that all the primed product has also been taken out of the pad.


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

*Second attempt, witout priming*

I'll just let the pictures do the talking


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

After a pad clean









So in the second attempt it still clogged up! :S
(sorry for the dirtyness this second time, i didn't clay the area, just wiped it clean of dust)

The product is actually cutting qute good now that i'm working it at a higher speed and lower pressure. But it still clogged up.

Any idea what i might be doing wrong here?


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## Kevin Brown (May 10, 2008)

So, are you seeing better results with priming, or without?

Also, I would:

Shorten the working time from 5 minutes, and clean that pad before it clumps again. 

Maybe work the area for a minute, then brush the pad, then run the face of the pad across a microfiber towel.

Then final polish at a lower speed, slow arm movement, one or two passes only.

See what happens... I am interested.


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## johandc (May 8, 2011)

I don't know yet if i liked it best with the priming or not. I'm only relying on my mobile phone LED flash and the sun to reveal defects. I do have a LED Lenzer P7 200 Lumen flashlight being delivered next week. So i'll be able to make a much better comparison later.

I think the most interesting of my observations was that having primed the pad did almost nothing to prevent the clogging, and after having cleaned the pad, the dried out maretial fell out of the pad, so it was almost clean anyways. So i think that priming only works if the pad itself does not dry out.

The second observation i did was that the combo inflicted much more micro-marring, as compared to when using Megs #105, but then it also really removed some defects. I will have to wait until my light arrives in order to tell if i'm satisfied with the correction, but this time i only did one set of passes with the Menz FG500, previously i had to do 3 passes to get the same cut. So the increase in machine speed and preassure, as well as using a spot pad, increased the cut significantly.

The only thing i have to figure out, is why it keeps drying up. It's supposed to be almost dust free, but i can't say that i have seen this yet. So now i have some options to try till next time:

I will go for priming the pad at first, and i'll try to keep the pad semi-moist by:
1) Working at a lower speed, max 4!
2) Shortening the polish time
3) Cleaning before it dries, and reapplying new product while it's still a bit moist.

Preventing the polish from drying out can only improve the cut even more!


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## geoler (May 3, 2011)

Hi johandc,
Coincidentally I've ordered the same pads & polishes from PB as you so I'm rather interested in this thread.

Do you have access to another bottle of FG500? Is it possible that your bottle may have been adversely affected in some way (excessive heat/cold, dried out a bit etc)?

Cheers,
Geo


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