# When do you know when to start charging...



## AlfaMan (Jul 15, 2009)

At what point to you know when you are good enough to start charging for other peoples cars???

And how do you know how much to charge??? and at what point to you change from just being anal on your own car to valeter to detailer or is it not important what you call yourself?

Cheers
AM


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

Charge what you think you're worth and to cover products.... SIMPLES


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2010)

-Mat- said:


> Charge what you think you're worth and to cover products.... SIMPLES


Your not a pro are you? Infact it is not that 'SIMPLES' as you call it


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## tonz (Sep 21, 2008)

aba said:


> Your not a pro are you? Infact it is not that 'SIMPLES' as you call it


So enlighten the chap then , instead of stating the obvious !


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

I think if you have to ask you already have the answer:thumb:


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2010)

tonz said:


> So enlighten the chap then , instead of stating the obvious !


I can't be bothered


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## Razzzle (Jul 3, 2010)

aba said:


> I can't be bothered


Thats the easy way out to be fair 

Daz.

edit:

from reading mats posts while ive been on the site, he seems to have quite a few details under his belt, and they look pretty smart once completed


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2010)

Razzzle said:


> Thats the easy way out to be fair
> 
> Daz.


Correct


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## nicp2007 (Apr 25, 2007)

see how much your out goins are, ie products fuel electric insurance etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

yes there is that many etc's to take into account, 

then put that against how many hours you want to work a week, then figure out how much money you want in your pocket per hour or day etc, 

noooooooot simples

if you want to do it properly :thumb:


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

aba said:


> Your not a pro are you? Infact it is not that 'SIMPLES' as you call it


No I'm not a "pro" (not sure what the definition is), but I do do a bit of part time detailing.

No-one is going to tell you how much to charge....

And yes, it is simple, work out the cost of products used (inc petrol costs etc), and the rest is what you believe you are worth. Also, look at what competitors are charging to gauge an idea.


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

if your going to start charging , then go about it in the correct way and get yourself set up properly with insurance , or it could go pear shaped before you know it as winter is upon us you only need someone to slip / trip on your hose pipe break a leg and your up sh1t creek without a paddle


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

weather or not you charge, I think you'd be in a creek without a paddle if that happened! 

Let's say you clear your driveway of snow, and the postman slips, he can sue, if you leave the snow there, he can't as it's deemed as an "act of god". :thumb:

So whether or not you charge, be careful about having hoses, pipes, cables etc trialing around :thumb:


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## David (Apr 6, 2006)

mat, ignore that guy on the first page, seems like he just wants to stir up nonsense!

if you need to ask professionals what to charge - don't charge at all

£50 an hour should cover you for pads and polish and beer tokens


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## SteveOC (May 26, 2007)

-Mat- said:


> Let's say you clear your driveway of snow, and the postman slips, he can sue, if you leave the snow there, he can't as it's deemed as an "act of god". :thumb:


Not a good example as it isn't true.

Under the Occupiers Liability Act 1957 you have a common duty of care to visitors:

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/legRes...geNumber=72&NavFrom=2&activeTextDocId=1159585

Here is a simplified explanation from another site............

_It is a popular misconception that an occupier cannot be held liable for failing to clear snow and ice, but can become liable if an attempt at clearance has been made and someone is then injured. The occupier of property owes a duty to visitors under the Occupiers Liability Act 1957 which creates a duty which can be defined as "to take such care as in all the circumstances is reasonable to see that the visitor will be reasonably safe in using the premises for the purposes for which he was invited or permitted to be there". The test is whether an occupier has taken such care to ensure that visitors are reasonably safe. Failure to clear snow and ice can result in liability but the duty is only to take reasonable care to ensure that visitors are reasonably safe._

Steve O.


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

all this confusion thanks to the "where there's a blame there's a claim" culture we live in....

If it's snowy, water will freeze, frozen water = ice, ice = slippy, which means, take care!


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## dean j (Mar 30, 2007)

£50 an hour? Damn! You got to be bloody good to charge that money, and that seems a rate or thereabouts what the pros charge with a premises to pay for.

If i were him, i'd look into how long it takes to do a complete correction job and maybe time a protection detail, and work out what he thinks its worth (considering what others charge) and go from there.

It aint rocket science though mate. Work out what you need to earn a month to live might give you a rough idea on what you need to charge


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

I was thinking the same... seem to have read on here that some pros charge about £35 per hour. Paul Dalton is around the £75/hour mark.

If you're doing it for mates, then £50 would be enough for a days work, and but more goodies


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## R1KK1 BFG (Jun 17, 2009)

DW syndrome...:wave::detailer:


It works out approx £25 ph when doing correctional work

£10-£15 per hour when doing valeting work.


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## David (Apr 6, 2006)

i just said £50 as a number, in no way does it reflect what he actually charges

I charge more than £50 an hour for my work at the weekend (not detailing)


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

What no-one knows tho, is, is the OP wanting to know what to charge to make a living from, or what to charge for doing mates cars etc?


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2010)

-Mat- said:


> No I'm not a "pro" (not sure what the definition is), but I do do a bit of part time detailing.
> 
> No-one is going to tell you how much to charge....
> 
> And yes, it is simple, work out the cost of products used (inc petrol costs etc), and the rest is what you believe you are worth. Also, look at what competitors are charging to gauge an idea.


Your first post wasn't as detailed as this...still a few things you seem to be over looking


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## dean j (Mar 30, 2007)

David said:


> i just said £50 as a number, in no way does it reflect what he actually charges
> 
> I charge more than £50 an hour for my work at the weekend (not detailing)


Oh my god! David's an Escort!! :doublesho


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

aba said:


> Your first post wasn't as detailed as this...still a few things you seem to be over looking


Well, as I've said, we need to esablish if the OP is looking at making a living, or just a bit of "cash in hand" at the weekends from mates etc


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

I think charging £10 - £15 an hour for general valeting is a tuch chump change personally Rikki.
Anything less than £25 an hour on average is lost money once you absorb the cost of insurance, running costs both on vehicle and materials.

I think as alreasy stated, the OP needs to establish if its a beers money scheme or a detailing seems simple get rich quick scheme.
Far too many feel its easy to jump in and do the job, get stuck in in the winter months on a real hammered old pig, im sure the towel would be thrown in quite quickly.
Plenty have tried, lots have failed.

Back on topic, look at the percentage of material your using and travel, time spent working etc and see a pheosable rate or as some do, charge for a few products youve been after and maybe a maccy d's.


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## mundo (Sep 7, 2010)

i personally think you should charge on the quality of products used....i mean paint can only be corrected to a certain point yeah, so if your spending money on the best that money can buy to do this then your obviously gonna charge more than i do cos i use 3M polish and pads and Zaino prods for the bling stages 

it all depends on the "true" time it takes to get the job done, some people charge for 3-4 days work when really it only takes them no more than two.....some people just drag stuff out to get more cash, some just get on with it and therefore the charge would be less...

i just crack on and get the job done.......but thats just me

mundo :thumb:

p.s dont be :devil: me im not pointing fingers!!


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Ok so the original question was "when" do you know to charge. You start charging when you are doing a car a week, usually weekends cause you are working in the week, people you dont know are ringing you cause others have forwarded your number, and you dont really have anymore time to do anything else. THEN you need to prioratise the jobs you do into paying customers. If you cant work out what to charge by using a little initiative then you are in trouble:wall:


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## mundo (Sep 7, 2010)

yeah what he said ^^^^^^^^^^^


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## kordun (Sep 4, 2010)

Beau Technique said:


> I think charging £10 - £15 an hour for general valeting is a tuch chump change personally Rikki.
> Anything less than £25 an hour on average is lost money once you absorb the cost of insurance, running costs both on vehicle and materials.
> 
> I think as alreasy stated, the OP needs to establish if its a beers money scheme or a detailing seems simple get rich quick scheme.
> ...


I'm trying to find website (car valeting) in Basingstoke area. They charge for mini valet 45m-1h £5.00 or £7.00 for 4x4
Middle valet 15 and full valet £30 4-6hours. I could not believe that. Cheaper than any hand car wash. He'll be better off working in pub for £5.83 minimum vage
Ill post their link if i find it


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

In all honesty, what quality would you get for that price?

The same price as a jar of nescafe, almost the same as a pack of 20 richmond ****, maxpower magazine and a cadburys chocalte bar.

Think I would prefer to drive a dirty car and have a choice from the above rather than take it to someone to make a complete hash of tbh.

These types of services have there place for the uneducated of car care of course but still, if you ( not directly of course ) was looking to have your car mini valeted, say a wash vac, glass, tyres dressed etc would you in all honesty think your getting a good job?

Think the jurys out on that one tbh but back to you and knowing when you can charge.
Only you can decide this.
Do you feel confident enough to take someones pride and joy into your own hands with the potential risk of making a mess of it?


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

The way I see it is that I'm confident enough to correct a car to a stage where it has no holograms and the experts on here would say it was a 'very good finish'. I'm also fairly confident that many of the pro's on here could do it in less than half the time to a better finish and remove less of the clearcoat. 

So if they charge £30 an hour I'm more expensive if I charge more than £15 an hour. Take into consideration valuable clearcoat microns and I couldn't get away with charging more than £10 an hour for correction. At that price... it's not worth the effort.

I'm happy doing my car, the wife's car, my brother, mum, dad, in-laws... 

The other thing that puts me off is... whats the point in taking their car to 99% correction if they're not going to maintain it (I certainly can't be bothered). To do anything other than 50% correction is just a waste of time and paint system. I'd rather just use a filler heavy glaze and stick some colli or megs #16 on it then wash it agian in 6 months. 

The mother-in-law is getting quite interested so I'll probably do her car over a weekend and she'll get someone I recommend locally to do a 2BM wash once a month. Unless they're willing to pay for someone to maintain the finish it's a total waste of time, effort and clearcoat to do any decent level of correction.

My nieghbour had their car done by a local guy for £20 and to be honest I was pretty impressed. I'd much rather he was getting the work than I was at £20 a car. I'm not sure Joe Public would notice any difference between what I could do in a weekend and what a valeter can do in an hour. They certainly wouldn't think it was worth the difference in what I'd charge for 20 hours work and what this guy charges for an hour.

If it was someone with a half decent motor that cared about the finish and maintaining the finish... they wouldn't be interested in me doing their car.


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## R1KK1 BFG (Jun 17, 2009)

Pro's can do it in half the time ....


But its taken them years to be able to do it in "half the time"... Paint Correction/Detailing in general is only something that will get quicker and better over time as your experiance and knowledge of products has taken them years to gain...

Take Kelly @ KDS for example he didnt get where he did overnight !


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## AlfaMan (Jul 15, 2009)

Thanks for all your replies, it sounds like a mine field. Sorry if I caused anyone to get annoyed, but it's been useful. From what I can make out it varies on the following.

1. How good your end product is and what level of service is provided.
2. How long it takes.
3. Costs of chemicals/petrol/equipment and overheads
4. Customer demand.

Well I think I've got enough to be thinking about. Thanks for all your help.

AM


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

I've done valeting/detailing for a living and it's not easy at all. In the end i got to the point where i wasn't enjoying it, so i sold the business. I enjoy detailing my own cars and helping friends with theirs, but they look after their cars, so it's easy stuff. Some customers want a valet, they don't really care about their cars, just drop it off and pick it up when it's done, not my thing at all. Think very carefully before you commit to this type of job.


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## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

Setting a Price- Setting a price should be fairly simple, materials used plus, a percentage % of (b) items 1 -6, plus Labour costs, plus profit margin

*Costs *
Any cost that is incurred by carrying out business

a) *Materials used*
car care products + expendables (i.e. micro fibre towels, latex gloves, etc) + depreciation on tools (machine polisher, pads, vacuum, power washer, etc)

b) *Overhead Costs*
1.	Tools
2.	Water
3.	Electricity
4.	Rent or Lease 
5.	Insurance, business licence, etc
6.	Marketing

c) *Labour*
Estimated time x expected hourly rate

d) *Profit Margin*
Percentage profit that you expect to make


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