# Sexual Discrimination...



## Shiny

Just a bit of industry news for those who are interested...

As a result of recent changes to the Sex Discrimination Act the pricing of motor insurance products must ensure that men and women are treated equally in relation to the access and supply of goods and services. So this means that where insurer’s prices differ by gender, those differences must be justified and based on actuarial data that is available to the general public.

So you can’t get cheaper insurance just “because you are woman” or end up paying more just “because you are a man”. Insurers now have to prove by statistics that gender is a justifiable rating factor.

The access to supply of goods or services is an interesting one too, I wonder how firms like Sheila’s Wheels will fair in being able to justify products only for women when they have no actuarial data relating to men to compare it to. And will the doors now open to women/couples only sex shops.....


----------



## treaclesponge

So what can we do to check this? Do two quotes on the web one male and one female and see if its different? Can you just ring up and moan at them if it is and ask for cheaper of the two?

Sorry for all the questions!!


----------



## silver bmw z3

Thanks, I didn't realise this was coming out. I can't understand how this relates to insurance, surely the reason discounts have traditionally been given to women is EXACTLY because actuarial data (I presume) supports that they have fewer or less costly accidents? In terms of Sheila's wheels I'm sure they'll find the data that supports their case. Statistics being statistics and Actuaries being employed by insurance companies I'm sure people will be able to get data and interpret it to suit the business being written.


----------



## Shiny

Insurers can still charge different rates for different genders, but they have to be able to justify by actuarial ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actuary ) evidence their reasons for doing so.

What i find interesting is that for once this is actually something in favour of male discrimination, although that probably wasn't the intention of the revised act! lol!

More here http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/consu...gender_insurance/consult_gender_insurance.cfm


----------



## Shiny

silver bmw z3 said:


> Thanks, I didn't realise this was coming out. I can't understand how this relates to insurance, surely the reason discounts have traditionally been given to women is EXACTLY because actuarial data (I presume) supports that they have fewer or less costly accidents?


This is true, but now the data has publicly available so it can be justified. Who knows what really goes on the in ivory tower of the actuary!


----------



## silver bmw z3

Shiny said:


> This is true, but now the data has publicly available so it can be justified. Who knows what really goes on the in ivory tower of the actuary!


I don't know but I know how much we pay them for doing it


----------



## Kriminal

Yaaay....at long last !

I tell the girls in work - the only reason blokes' insurance is higher is due to men making more claims....this doesn't mean that blokes have more accidents however...it just means that every time the girl has an accident she gives the keys to the bloke and tells 'em to take it down the garage and get it fixed, as they've usually driven into something that's stationary, such as a lamp-post/concrete pillar......the bloke usually haves somebody else involved, which makes him HAVE to go through the Insurance.

That's my logic anyway 

Now, where's Bruce's Rims (Sheila's alter-ego) ??


----------



## Shug

Women have more accidents than men.
Men just tend to cause a whole lot more damage when they do crash!


----------



## silver bmw z3

If there's a couple, don't men do most of the driving? Therefore statistically they are more likely to have an accident?


----------



## Kriminal

silver bmw z3 said:


> If there's a couple, don't men do most of the driving? Therefore statistically they are more likely to have an accident?


....and the majority of bus drivers, taxi drivers, etc. must be blokes too ? :thumb:


----------



## monzablue16v

I've always said that women only insurance is discrimination. Like Shug says, Blokes are known for doing it properly.


----------



## Shiny

Kriminal said:


> Now, where's Bruce's Rims??


Be careful where you ask that question!


----------



## silver bmw z3

Kriminal said:


> ....and the majority of bus drivers, taxi drivers, etc. must be blokes too ? :thumb:


Exactly.


----------



## Shiny

Although that in theory should only affect the rating of bus fleets, taxi policies etc...


----------



## Brazo

I think women have far more accidents than men but far less reportable accidents than men!

I know when I have an accident I rarely scrape the car or reverse into another I do it properly and roll the fecker


----------



## Shiny

That's exactly it, frequency is a probability rating, but the amount/cost of a claim affects profitability.

In my unbiased professional opinion.. women tend to have small shunts and car park dings, where as men plough into things and end up with big repair bills, third party hire costs and personal injury claims. It's the PI claims that bump the premiums.


----------



## silver bmw z3

Shiny said:


> Although that in theory should only affect the rating of bus fleets, taxi policies etc...


Doesn't that depend what they hit? If they hit a member of the public car won't that also register as an accident and I'd say at any one time there'd be more blokes driving around than women but may be wrong.


----------



## Shiny

silver bmw z3 said:


> Doesn't that depend what they hit? If they hit a member of the public car won't that also register as an accident and I'd say at any one time there'd be more blokes driving around than women but may be wrong.


Not really as there will not be any payments under the car policy, but instead payments/reserves on the taxi policy which would affect the profitability of the insurer's taxi portfolio.


----------



## silver bmw z3

Do they measure it by payments or accidents though? I was under the impression that an accident would be recorded by (and legally have to be reported to) the insurer of the car irrespective of whether the taxi insurers paid in full?


----------



## mike137

mega!! would love to see some of these statistics.


----------



## Shiny

I'm sure accident frequency is measured, but rating is down to profitibility ie premium income against claims paid.

If an insurer took £1m in premium and their client's had 1,000 claims and they were all non fault with a full recovery, then they will be running at a 0% loss ratio and very profitable. They could review their account and reduce premiums in view of good experience across the portfolio.

However, if an Insurer took £1m in premiums and paid out £2m as a result of just 10 fault claims, their loss ratio would be 200%. They would need to double their premium income just to break even (or probably just drop that portfolio completely and concentrate on something else more profitable as is more often the case).


----------



## PugIain

I wonder how long it will take to get into action,ive just done 2 motor quotes on a 2001 MK4 Golf Diesel,same age,address no claims,everything,the womens quote was 860ish and the bloke was 970.
Hows that work.


----------



## Shiny

Iain, this won't necessarily alter the fact that women will be able to insure a car cheaper than a man, but it means that an insurer will have to be able to publicly justify why the premiums are cheaper, or they could be discriminating by gender.


----------



## silver bmw z3

Shiny said:


> I'm sure accident frequency is measured, but rating is down to profitibility ie premium income against claims paid.
> 
> If an insurer took £1m in premium and their client's had 1,000 claims and they were all non fault with a full recovery, then they will be running at a 0% loss ratio and very profitable. They could review their account and reduce premiums in view of good experience across the portfolio.
> 
> However, if an Insurer took £1m in premiums and paid out £2m as a result of just 10 fault claims, their loss ratio would be 200%. They would need to double their premium income just to break even (or probably just drop that portfolio completely and concentrate on something else more profitable as is more often the case).


You are preaching to the converted, I'm a director of an insurance company


----------



## PugIain

Shiny said:


> Iain, this won't necessarily alter the fact that women will be able to insure a car cheaper than a man, but it means that an insurer will have to be able to publicly justify why the premiums are cheaper, or they could be discriminating by gender.


Right,Ive got you.Thanks.


----------



## Jules

Are individual insurers going to have to produce their own data, or can they rely on data available within the industry? Just trying to figure out how a 'ladies only' insurer would get data on a proprotional sample of male drivers?


----------



## Shiny

From what i gather the Insurers will have to justify premium differentials from their own actuarial data. I guess they will either publish data on their own sites or pass it to the ABI.

I've just looked a Sheila's Wheels and they are actually a brand of esure, part of HBOS, so they should be able to justify premium differences. But this still doesn't fit in with the fact that men & women must be treated equally in access of goods. Unless someone fancies wasting half an hour to see if they can get a quote from Sheila's Wheels. It's got "Mr" as a title option on the first page, but i couldn't be arsed to go any further when i spend all day getting quotes!


----------



## cheezemonkhai

IIRC you can get a quote but they charge you a metric sh*t load.

I wonder if this will now stop the women only gyms.

Especially since male only golf courses and bars are not legal any more even if the men don't like having women watching them drink. That excuse is no different to the women not liking men in the gym.


----------



## Destroyers

Intresting information - thanks for posting


----------

