# Best digital SLR?



## Brazo

Ok, I own a 'proper' SLR and appreciate digital versions are simply the same shape and use ttl metering without a mirror!

A few years ago I owned a minolta dimage 7I which was I suppose a semi SLR for want of a better word, no interchangeable lens's but superb sharp shots, the AF did hunt somewhat though. Its now broke 

After seeing Gizmo's nikon last weekend it has rekindled my 'need' for one. WHat is the best I can buy for £400-500? If you can get them that cheap? I think you can now after talking to Gizmo555. 

I only need 4-5 meg and prefer a decent lens over image size. Only need a 50 mm fixed to start or maybe a 28-80mm if poss:thumb: 

TIA


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## BenP

I've just bought an EOS350D off a chap on another forum. He'd only used it to take maybe 3-400 shots and was now upgrading to a 30D. I got it, including the 18-55mm lens for £300. Considering it's absolutely mint I think I've done pretty well.

It's my first digital SLR, but having used film Canon SLRs for years it carries the ease of use and quality of shots with it. Unless you need seriously advanced features, IMO you really can't go wrong with it.

Ben


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## Gizmo555

Mark

Take a look over at www.warehouseexpress.co.uk for Nikon D50 kits - you can get D50 + 18-55mm for £399 plus there are a load of other options.

Canon 350D is slightly more expensive.

I think Jessops will match these prices.

I'd advise handling the Canon & the Nikon as I think you'll find ergonomics will decide it. Both are extremely capable cameras.

+ If you buy the Nikon I have a 75-300mm lens for sale


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## Ant GTI-6

Is it an Slr you truly need/want, if not Canon do the powershot PRO1 a cracking camera coming down in price all the time. I bought mine a year ago and love it to bits.

28-200m L series lens(fixed)
8mp:doublesho 
most of the slr functions, you can add macro lenses & filters.
hot shoe for external flash.
iso 50-400

have a gander at www.dpreview.com :thumb:

You cant deny my pics arn't bad eh:thumb:

Regards
Ant


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## Gizmo555

I'll just throw in the 'shutter lag' argument. Don't know about the pro 1 but other fixed lens digital cameras I've had including Canon S1 iS had considerable shutter lag in comparison to the DSLR.

As most of my photography is motorsport it was really a show stopper.

pro1 could be ok so could well be a viable candidate


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## Ant GTI-6

Ok you have me there 'shutter lag':wall: , my only gripe with it other than that it is superb!!!


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## robz

i like the 350D personally, but im biased seeing as its what ive used for the last 6 months... brilliant piece of kit


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## Gizmo555

Nikon :thumb: 

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4936

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7002


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## IGADIZ

Nice pictures Gizmo.
just to make your decision a bit more dificult, here is an F1 pic I took last year with my Canon eos 20D lol








PS I am the mate Johnnyopolis is talking about in your pictures thread. . He was there with me when I took this picture; I was able to get behind the fence to John's dismay lol.
I used to have the 20D now I've moved on to the 5D and the 1dmkIIn The lens used was the 100-400Lis









This one I took this year at the silverstone test last April, same lens canon eos 5D


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## Spammy

Nikon D50


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## Gizmo555

IGADIZ said:


> Nice pictures Gizmo.
> just to make your decision a bit more dificult, here is an F1 pic I took last year with my Canon eos 20D lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS I am the mate Johnnyopolis is talking about in your pictures thread. . He was there with me when I took this picture; I was able to get behind the fence to John's dismay lol.
> I used to have the 20D now I've moved on to the 5D and the 1dmkIIn The lens used was the 100-400Lis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This one I took this year at the silverstone test last April, same lens canon eos 5D


Stuning :thumb: :doublesho

Time to sell the Nikon & buy Canon


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## Brazo

Thanks guys for your help its sound slike the D50 is a good, vfm camera. Just need to follow that link gizmo when the wife isn't looking


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## Gizmo555

*Nikon D50 Reviews -*

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond50/

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/nikon_d50.html

*Canon EOS 350D Reviews -*

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos350d/

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/rebelxt.html

:thumb:


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## Razor

The only problem with Nikon's is that they suffer from serious noise problems above ISO 400. Now I'm not saying that you are ever going to shoot above 400 ISO but if you ever do... Its not a pretty sight.


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## Brazo

^^a worthy point all the same :thumb:


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## Detail My Ride

i would reccomend a Canon 20d which my dad has, this means hopefully i'll get his eos 350d  

Gaz


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## Spammy

The Nikon D50 is renowned for its low noise, I admit that the D200 and others are worse but I have both the D50 and the D200 and the D50 outperforms the D200 in terms of noise!


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## Johnnyopolis

I may be selling my 350D - bought last Decemeber (seen the receipt somewhere!) Its the body and the 18-55mm lense. 

Not too sure how much yet... but probably £350 

Johnny


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## Gizmo555

Someone just posted on Scoobynet that Comet (online) are doing Cano 350D with 18-55mm & 55-200mm for £578 - instore is £699

Assuming they're both Canon lenses that sounds like a good price.

Be careful they may be Sigma lenses though.

http://www.comet.co.uk/comet/html/cache/615_257001.html


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## Gizmo555

Johnnyopolis said:


> I may be selling my 350D - bought last Decemeber (seen the receipt somewhere!) Its the body and the 18-55mm lense.
> 
> Not too sure how much yet... but probably £350
> 
> Johnny


Then again that sounds even better :thumb:


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## Richard

In the same predicament myself. If you are flying soon dixons tax free are doing some good deals. Thinkiing about the canon as well:its £595. Went out of Newcastle last week and sure that they are both nikon lenses......just need to make my mind up.....

http://www.dixonstaxfree.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseaction=imaging.home&section=imaging&group=13


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## andrew_rs225

Gizmo555 said:


> Someone just posted on Scoobynet that Comet (online) are doing Cano 350D with 18-55mm & 55-200mm for £578 - instore is £699
> 
> Assuming they're both Canon lenses that sounds like a good price.
> 
> Be careful they may be Sigma lenses though.
> 
> http://www.comet.co.uk/comet/html/cache/615_257001.html


Cannot find a 55-200 in the Canon range. Only manufacturer that seems to do that lens is Tamron.
So probaly the standard Canon body and Canon 18-55 kit with a third party lens. Tamron aren't bad though I don't think.

Andrew

P.S. Just as an extra but at least the Jessops in Birmingham will pricematch Warehouse Express.. Saved me over £100 on a recent lens purchase and 12mths interest free!


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## almaz

Personally i'd go for a Konica Minolta, the Dynax 5D is my beast of choice and produces some fantastic results! and it's compatible with nearly all the Minolta AF lenses. It is clear all the way through the ISO range and with very little if no graining at the top end of the scale. The body of the camera also has an "Anti-Shake" feature built in and works really well, meaning all lenses that you use with the camera benefit from the AS, this is extremely useful in low light situations.


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## Brazo

Cheers Al!!


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## DrT

nikon D50.

a dSLR is the same as a normal SLR with mirror etc etc but they use a sensor to capture the image rather than film.



Brazo said:


> Ok, I own a 'proper' SLR and appreciate digital versions are simply the same shape and use ttl metering without a mirror!
> 
> A few years ago I owned a minolta dimage 7I which was I suppose a semi SLR for want of a better word, no interchangeable lens's but superb sharp shots, the AF did hunt somewhat though. Its now broke
> 
> After seeing Gizmo's nikon last weekend it has rekindled my 'need' for one. WHat is the best I can buy for £400-500? If you can get them that cheap? I think you can now after talking to Gizmo555.
> 
> I only need 4-5 meg and prefer a decent lens over image size. Only need a 50 mm fixed to start or maybe a 28-80mm if poss:thumb:
> 
> TIA


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## almaz

I had a quick play with a Nikon D50 earlier and it's a LOT quieter than my Konika.


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## Mini_Nigel

DrT said:


> nikon D50.
> a dSLR is the same as a normal SLR with mirror etc etc but they use a sensor to capture the image rather than film.


I've got a 300D (model before 350D) and I'm very pleased with it.

However, apart from the lag issue, I'm not sure that an SLR is the way to go. The SLR system was designed so that the viewfinder saw the same image as the film. But with a digital camera, you can get the same effect with the LCD. What is the point of all that mechanical stuff?

Unless you want to change lenses etc, I'd go for a non-SLR with a wide aperture and a large CCD, like the PowerShot S3 IS

Nige


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## DrT

LCD is fake, not a true representation of what you see. the mirror means you see what the camera sees. also dSLR have better imahe quality, lower noise, faster focus, better DOF control compared to point and clicks


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## Mini_Nigel

^ OK, let' take those one at a time

[1] LCD is exactly the image you will get (unlike a mirror which is typically 2% underscanned), but this doesn't matter because you are going to crop it anyway.

[2] DSLRs have better quality if they have bigger CCDs, and better lenses, which are more expensive. A good quality compact will be just as good.

[3] DSLRs have better noise figures because they have more expensive lenses. However, the larger CCDs actually cause more noise, not less (same light intensity, spread over larger focal plane).

[4] DSLRs have faster focus because they are more expensive. However, they cannot focus as close, or have the same zoom range. The mirror means the back focus is about 5x the back focus on a compact.

[5] DSLRs have better manual controls because they are aimed at a different market.

There is nothing inherent in a SLR that makes it better as a digital camera, it is just the need for boys to have complicated toys.

Nige


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## King Eric

I'm going to get an SLR I think so this thread is really handy!


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## Mini_Nigel

Welcome back.

I'm sure your avatar is probably someone famous, but if not, _man_ have you aged on honeymoon 

Nige


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## King Eric

LOL 

It's Tony Soprano

Now where is my gnocchi?


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## DrT

[1] LCD is exactly the image you will get (unlike a mirror which is typically 2% underscanned), but this doesn't matter because you are going to crop it anyway.

*its not because it is a computer generated image*

[2] DSLRs have better quality if they have bigger CCDs, and better lenses, which are more expensive. A good quality compact will be just as good.

*better quality because of the better sensors + and image processers, bigger does not mean better. some P&C's have leica lenses.*

[3] DSLRs have better noise figures because they have more expensive lenses. However, the larger CCDs actually cause more noise, not less (same light intensity, spread over larger focal plane).

*dSLRs have lower noise because they have larger pixels so can gather more light thus not needing as much aplification*

[4] DSLRs have faster focus because they are more expensive. However, they cannot focus as close, or have the same zoom range. The mirror means the back focus is about 5x the back focus on a compact. 
*
they have faster focus due to the lens and the software. a nikon d50 will focus quicker than a P&C at the same price. dslrc can have 1:1 magnification when using a macro lens or extention tubes getting close is not specifically a good thing as you can disturb your target*.

[5] DSLRs have better manual controls because they are aimed at a different market.

*the canon A620 has AV, TV and full manual control it costs £150 and is aimed at someone with little money.*

There is nothing inherent in a SLR that makes it better as a digital camera, it is just the need for boys to have complicated toys.

*the lower noise, the higher image quality, the faster focus, the more FPS, granted its not small and in some situations a compact can be used more clandestine*

Ross


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## almaz

Mini_Nigel said:


> There is nothing inherent in a SLR that makes it better as a digital camera, it is just the need for boys to have complicated toys.


Hmm........tough choice


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## Mini_Nigel

^^ I think we will have to agree to disagree.

Oh, and ...










Still a tough choice?

Brazo, have a look here.


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## King Eric

Ok Ok 

Confused Nige!!! 

What one do I want?


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## MickCTR

Sorry to hijack (better than creating a duplicate thread?!?!?). I have been looking at getting a new camera, i am interested and intrigued by good photography and its something I'd like to get into. I was using a mates camera at the BTCC this weekend which has really given me a yearning for something better than my little kodak easyshare . I don't want the full blown SLR experience yet (mainly because i am trying to save towards a house deposit lol) but i was thinking of something along the lines of this http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/96451/rb/20751914905 in the price bracket £200-£300. What do you guys think???? I really liked the mates camera and when i can remember what it was i will post that too. Any info anyone can offer is appreciated!

Edit: Actually i have just stumbled across this http://www.cameras.co.uk/camera-reviews/canon-powershot-s3-is.cfm i have read 2 or 3 write ups that all rate it very highly!!!


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## MickCTR

Here is the one i used at the weekend. Which would i be better off with, the Lumix or the Canon?

http://www.digital-cameras.com/digital_cameras/prosumer/panasonic_lumix_dmc_fz7_black.html


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## leeshez

I have a fuji fine pics s5600 but not 100% sure how to use it.


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## Gizmo555

Worth checking reviews at www.dpreview.com or at Steves digicams.

If you're using it for motorsport make sure you're happy with the shutter lag.


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## MickCTR

Right, i am pretty happy with this (from my limited knowledge of camera's) so if any of you have any opinions, please voice them before the weekend lol!

http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/257122/art/panasonic/lumix-dmc-fz7-black-memor.html

Think its a pretty good deal tbh from what i have seen!


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## m500dpp

> A few years ago I owned a minolta dimage 7I which was I suppose a semi SLR for want of a better word, no interchangeable lens's but superb sharp shots, the AF did hunt somewhat though. Its now broke


Ah the "damage" I had one where the ccd packed up, so i sent a stinking email to minolta only to be pointed to their web site. It turned out this is a common fault which they will repair FOC - so i got mine done (mind you, used it as an excuse to get a fuji9500 ) 7i working again but gets little use as it eats batteries!!!!


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## Gizmo555

DSLR prices reduced at www.warehouseexpress.co.uk :thumb:


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## Grizzle

Fujli S3 pro amazing SLR camera.


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## robz

ive said it once and ill say it again

Canon 350D, you cant go wrong!


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## Mini_Nigel

^ If you really need * an SLR, then I agree. But if you want a camera with similar performance, and don't need an SLR, then why buy one?

Nige

* I'm using "need" in the real sense, as in: "I need oxygen to live", not "I need a Lamborghini".


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## MickCTR

What would you suggest then Nige? I don't want an SLR, just a good camera with plenty of features. As said i like the Lumix DMC-FZ7, what do you think?


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## Mini_Nigel

Like I said earlier, I'd go for a non-SLR with a wide aperture and a large CCD, like the PowerShot S3 IS, this is a recent revamp of a very popular model.

I may be biased because I happen to like Canon gear for anything to do with images: printers, scanners, & cameras. They just seem to get it right, not just the quality, but ease of use. An example: I've had Nikon & Pentax digital cameras. If you are using the menu system and see a potential shot, you have to exit via the menu buttons. On a Canon, you press the shutter, and it says "stuff the menu - get ready to take a photo". Try that on a Niktax and it beeps at you!

Nige


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## MickCTR

Interesting stuff. Cheers mate. I had contemplated the S3 IS and then i found the Lumix DMC-FZ7 and everyone apart from you rates the Lumix lol. As do most reviews i have read. What to do.

I had all but decided on the FZ7 when my mate told me that his was the FZ20, now i can't find the 20 for sale anywhere so i have been looking at the 30, which looks like a great bit of kit! Here are the 7, 20 and 30 side by side http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/com...,panasonic_dmcfz20,panasonic_dmcfz30&show=all


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## Razor

Sorry but if you seriously want to get into photography then I think an SLR is what you need - one basic feature of SLRs' is partial and spot metering that is invaluable for complex lighting shots. 

Sounds more like to me a typical case of because you don't have an SLR then you have to justify what you have by slagging SLR cameras?  

I use a FF SLR that is absolutely invaluable for A3 printing, tied in with a few long range wide aperture lens for long range landscape photography/wildlife (at a safe distance  ), macro lens for close up photography and wide angle for landscapes/close up architecture then you have an unbeatable combination. Digi compacts are only good for holiday snaps and portraits, with maybe the odd low definition lanscape if the lighting is fairly simple - please don't try and say its the equivalent to SLR if not better because it isn't - not even close.

Mark


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## Mini_Nigel

Razor said:


> Sorry but if you seriously want to get into photography then I think an SLR is what you need - one basic feature of SLRs' is partial and spot metering that is invaluable for complex lighting shots.
> 
> Sounds more like to me a typical case of because you don't have an SLR then you have to justify what you have by slagging SLR cameras?


I've got spot metering on my Canon compact, and I've got a Canon 300D dSLR as well. For 90% of my shots, I use the auto settings, and I've been "into photography" for about 35 years: I bought my first Pentax SLR in 1976.

All I'm saying is that the advantages of a dSLR over a digital compact are nowhere near the advantages of a 35mm SLR over a 35mm compact. In many cases a compact is better, that's why I've got both. I tend to use the dSLR on local shoots, or when I need a fish-eye or an extreme macro lens. Bottom line: I never take my dSLR on holiday.

If you are taking up photography as a hobby, then fine, get a dSLR. But if you just want a good quality digital camera you will be wasting your money.

Nige


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## Razor

Mini_Nigel said:


> Bottom line: I never take my dSLR on holiday.
> 
> If you are taking up photography as a hobby, then fine, get a dSLR. But if you just want a good quality digital camera you will be wasting your money.
> 
> Nige


Since the 9/11 tragedy, its a very _very _bad idea to take your (d)SLR on holiday as the officers in most cases will take your bag apart unscrewing lens caps the lot getting their grubby fingerprints everywhere. I know this as I know a few people who have taken over SLR's and were absolutely horrified when their camera bags were opened, and thoroughly searched - something to expect when you take over any electronic equipment I think.

Ok, sorry must have misread - you are basically saying the same as me then. 

Mark


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## DrT

I take my camera every where. the police in this country have no authority to take your camera off you, look at the pictures or delete them. they have no authority to stop you taking pics in public so long as you are not causing breach of the peace or harrisment.


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## Razor

DrT said:


> I take my camera every where. the police in this country have no authority to take your camera off you, look at the pictures or delete them. they have no authority to stop you taking pics in public so long as you are not causing breach of the peace or harrisment.


I'm talking about custom officers where they have _every right_ to search your camera, lens, kit etc extremely thoroughly. It only takes one heavy handed customs officers in the 'back of beyond' to completely ruin your holiday if you know what I mean.


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## Mini_Nigel

DrT said:


> I take my camera every where. the police in this country have no authority to take your camera off you, look at the pictures or delete them. they have no authority to stop you taking pics in public so long as you are not causing breach of the peace or harrisment.


Wrong, I'm afraid, in so many ways :lol:

Nige


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## DrT

Razor said:


> I'm talking about custom officers where they have _every right_ to search your camera, lens, kit etc extremely thoroughly. It only takes one heavy handed customs officers in the 'back of beyond' to completely ruin your holiday if you know what I mean.


I take my camera as hand luggede so I'm there if they want to see it. don't like it going through xray machines although they are safe.

and thats only customs not everywhere else


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