# Hybrid LSP Test - Part 1



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Is it a wax? Is it a sealant? No ... It's both!

In the world of LSPs, the lines are blurred as to what camps various products fall in to these days - some waxes are simply waxes, with natural ingredients, while others are conbinations of waxes and sealants, and of course some LSPs are simply sealants. This test looks at the products in the middle, and takes two products which are now widely accepted to be "hyrbids" - that is, a combination of wax and sealant.

*We need you! Look through this thread, and rate in your opinion the product that most appeals to you purely on the performance that you see here! Please be aware that this test does not consider user appeal at this stage, something which is very relevant, so the results of this test should not be read as gospel - just a bit of fun, really *

For the purposes of this test, they will simply be called "Product 1" and "Product 2", and it is up to you, the forum members, to make your decisions on this thread and as this test develops. The names of the products will be revealed at the end. The test will be split into two sections and updated in a series of parts. The first section is the test in this thread, where a red VW Golf door was prepped identically: wet-sanded, machine polished, refined by rotary with Menzerna Super Finish S4000, and wiped down. Product 1 was applied to the front section of the door, Product 2 to the rear with an unprotected line inbetween. Protection only went up to the swage line, and the blue tape highlights which section is for which product. Only one layer of each was applied, allowed to haze and then buffed and left to "set up".

As much as we would like to have a fancy gloss meter that tells you how shiny the paint is by way of loads of different numbers, we don't, so instead we used our own Glossmeter, the Allie Mk1, which rates the gloss on a scale of "oooooh" and "aaahhh" and "shiiiiiny"  (and I am a dead man walking if she reads this! :lol::lol










In all seriousness though, Allie volunteered to assess the panels as a newbie to detailing, as a fresh eye to see if she could spot any differences in the finishes and give her opinions. I won't be giving my opinions until the end 

So first of all, let's look at the products indoors under strip lights. Finish from a couple of different angles:

*Product 1*



















*Product 2*



















It is up to you - can you see a difference? If so, which one do you prefer? I'm not interested in my opinions here, I'm interested in your thoughts!

Right, enough of the natural light... time to go outdoors. The gloss meter takes in the finishes....










Again, the products from different angles:

*Product 1*





































*Product 2*





































Thoughts and opinions? I understand this is pictures from a camera, a Panasonic thingymaboab with buttons on it. So it is harder than seeing a panel in the flesh... this door currently lives with Gordon at his unit in Cambuslang, so I'm sure if you wanted to see the panel up close and personal, if you PM Gordon he might be able to arrange a time he's working at the unit for you to have a look 

The gloss meter's opinions - very hard to tell a difference between the two, perhaps Product 2 gives slightly sharper reflections (they look more defined) than Product 1. That is one person's thoughts so far, and as mentioned above, I'll share my thoughts at the end of the whole test 

On to water behaviour. First test was the beading test, using a fine mist spray of water and looking at the beads formed:

*Product 1*




























*Product 2*




























Next, videos - using the fine mist spray we increased the water volume on the panel, swept the water off and looked to see how beads formed and the run off (panel horizontal)...

*Product 1*



*Product 2*



Sheeting test, using the aerated option from the Hozelock connector - a single video here, which starts with Product 2, moving on to Product 1 (use Blue tape to show the products)...



And finally, for the last videos, the panel vertical and various sprays and streams of water applied to it - again, use them to see which product you prefer the water behaviour for (Blue tape shows which area is which product)...









To round off this part of the test, in no particular order, a few photographs showing the comparison of water remaining on the panel and the way this water was beading following the applications of various sprays and streams... Comparing product 2 and 1, as labelled on the blue tape:









































































*Please vote! Simply, which product do you prefer the look of so far - byt that I mean, which product appeals to you the most based on these results, how the panel looks, how the water behaves on each panel. Just vote for either Product 1, or Product 2. Have your say, I'm not interested in my opinions here, I want to know what you think!*

This test will be continued as the panel will be snowfoamed and rinsed and washed using DJ Born to be Mild regularly, and where possible exposed to the elements... However, in addition to this, the same two products will be applied to my Volvo S60: one on one side, and one on the other to form the second section of this test, on an every day car that receives every day abuse and washing with Meguiars Shampoo Plus.

_This test is not intended to be a ********** test to show one product being better or worse than another - it is simply comparing our experiences with videos to show you and allow you to have your say. It rates only on paper performance on this one paint type (and the Volvo's) and does not take into account user appeal, ease of application (discussed at the end), or cost. In other words, we're doing this for fun _


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## Edstrung (Apr 6, 2009)

I'm sure you kept the angles and distances as similar as possible for the shots, so here's my take 

(2) Has smaller beading and better sheeting ability
(1) Gives fat beading, but doesn't sheet quite as well

As a quick (fun) assumption, I'm going to assume that (1) will have greater durability, while (2) gives a better finish immediately after applying and might be easier to apply.

No idea if thats even close to correct, but it's my 2c 

Oh, and I prefer (1) on the whole.


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## kendo89 (May 3, 2011)

I think product 1 offers a better depth of colour but there isn't a great deal in it.

Id have product 1


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

Product 1  out of the 2


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## Rs200Lew (Jul 18, 2010)

Id go for product 2. Sheets better and leaves less water on the panel afterwards. Beads from product 2 look slightly smaller, purely because product 1 was shot closer than the pics in product 2 from what i can see.


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

I'd say Product 2 is Colli! But I know we're not getting into that yet.

Due to the fact that I think it'll be more durable alone, I'd go for Product 2.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

I think I prefer #2.


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## terraknorr (Feb 14, 2011)

Product 2:thumb:


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## m2v (Nov 18, 2009)

I think I prefer #2.


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

The gloss of product #1 looks a bit warmer to me, than that of #2, and I prefer warm gloss. Quality of beading and sheeting are for me much less important.


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## mbrad_26 (Apr 19, 2011)

Product 1


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## ads2k (Jul 12, 2006)

Prefer the beading and sheeting of 2 :thumb:

Can't tell the difference from the pictures between the 2 however


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## GlynRS2 (Jan 21, 2006)

I prefer product 1 for the depth and richness of the finish.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

product 2 for me.


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

prefer 2 for the behavior with water, theres a bigger difference between the two in that sense than looks, and with the weather at the mo its certainly more appealing. looking at it again im now convinced i was seeing more than i was. these defo not the same product and a trick?


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

So many variables light exposure etc, neither im afraid much of a muchness to my eye as i seam to see more and more even with products side by side on the car.
Sorry.
For that reason i cant vote.


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## Red_Cloverleaf (Jul 26, 2009)

james_death said:


> So many variables light exposure etc, neither im afraid much of a muchness to my eye as i seam to see more and more even with products side by side on the car.
> Sorry.
> For that reason i cant vote.


First handbag to Mr Death! Who will return the blow with their Fendi? 

I'm just surprised it took so long in coming! :lol:

Keep up the good work! ::thumb::thumb:

NB - level pegging at 13 all at this stage.


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## Mr THX (May 15, 2009)

Product 1 for me liked the beading more and TBH didn't see enough difference in the sheeting!!


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## Russ and his BM (Jan 1, 2008)

Product 2 seems to bead and sheet slightly better, and provide a slightly sharper shine.


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## HalfordsShopper (Jul 8, 2008)

Can we have a 'don't know' option? 

I honestly can't see any difference at all.


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

Can't tell the difference but I prefer product 2 for sheeting and beading .


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

HalfordsShopper said:


> Can we have a 'don't know' option?
> 
> I honestly can't see any difference at all.


I hoped there was the a cant decide...:lol:

Still look forward to finding out whats been used mind...:wave:


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

james_death said:


> I hoped there was the a cant decide...:lol:
> 
> Still look forward to finding out whats been used mind...:wave:


+1 Its to close to call imo


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

Product 1 for me has a skightly clearer reflection in the last photo's.
Also on the door video where an open ended hose was used, i feel that 1 was slightly faster run off.
Both are very similar and i spent ages looking at the videos before i could make my mind up.
So i would choose product one as my LSP.

Kev


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## ross-1888 (Feb 22, 2009)

after having a look at the panel just about an hour ago i recon that the number 2 looks slightly sharper reflection than number 1 imo. 

as for anything else. beading and sheeting doenst make any difference to me. fast sheeting is nice but i dont go looking for a product that does it.


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Watch this, it turns out both same product but one by hand and one by machine...:lol:


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

james_death said:


> Watch this, it turns out both same product but one by hand and one by machine...:lol:


Yeah lol, it might be, i voted for number two..


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## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

not much in it going by pics and vids , i keep swapping between them , keep going back and having another look and my heads a shed :lol:

number 1 looks glossier ,,,,,or is my head now just telling me to make a choice , number 2 looks deeper 

oh bugger , hold that thought as i`m off to look again :lol:


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Judging by looks alone #2 looks warmer and darker to me so I'd opt for that one.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

could be light angels as well, they play a vital trick as well.


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## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

decided to opt for number 1 . 
reason behind my choice was made after the last tests spraying water across both sections , it might be just me but seen as you said the lsp is only applied upto the swage line i couldn`t see any difference in how the water behaved in section 2 from the swage line to the tape , very little different in other pics although number two does look a bit glossier in some pics but again hard to see from the pics as the differnece is minimal 

look forward to your review and also whats used ect


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## h13ulk (Oct 31, 2008)

I actually seen this panel in the flesh on friday and gordon asked me for my opinion. so i sat back in a chair from about 6ft away and moved my line of sight between the two sections back on forward reflecting off different things in the room and my opinion was that number 2 seemed to have a much sharper image with less orange peel affect than number 1 even though they were both wetsanded identically and polished which i couldnt get my head around lol. so my vote is product/section 2


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## Serious (Mar 19, 2008)

Same product.


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## h13ulk (Oct 31, 2008)

Serious said:


> Same product.


what makes you think that ???


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Definitely not the same product, that much I can assure you


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Dave KG said:


> Definitely not the same product, that much I can assure you


Yeah you say that now...:lol:

No way to tell by pics or vids simply not possible the cameras and video lenses cannot work as well as the human eye not by a mile they dont have the dynamic range you have to see it yourself in the flesh.

A camera and video constantly adjusts focus unless on manual and then it can still adjust f-stop and iso etc.

Each person views differently and has there personal want from a product.

The ones that have seen in the flesh give me most credence..:wave:

Below same day same spot within 3 seconds of each other difference from slight turn of a polariser.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

can i take a guess at work product 2 is..

i think its Chemical Guys Blacklight 

i voted for product 2.

my guess above was caused mainly by the sheeting, in my tests the sheeting of blacklight was very similar to that.. slightly slower than product one.. but left little to no water on the surface.

sheeting of product one looks like what i got with colly 476 (but this is a hybrid test so wont be that lol.. ) maybe SN hybrid?


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Building the tension for the reveal...:lol:


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## catalin1984 (Feb 24, 2009)

I have to say that product no2 is my favourite.....i also think is collinite....


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## Dingo2002 (Apr 4, 2007)

Honestly, if you hadn't told people that this was 2 different products do you think they would have even noticed there was a difference. Given the seemingly balanced selections between 1 and 2 I'd say that they would have happily assumed it was the same one. If it truly is 2 products it'd be interesting to see price and manufacturer claim differences. 

Personally? i really couldn't see any differences. Beads looked roughly the same to me, both sheeted water fine, and both acted the same under a misting spray. Your "gloss meter" here may have been the best source of critique since she was able to assess how the reflections were perceived. If one doesn't sit as flat or as clear on the panel she'd have been able to notice that better than us with the camera shots. 

Therefore my answer is both (or neither depending on if you a glass half full person or not ):thumb:


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Please bear in mind the aspects of this test - we have done this for fun  It will be very difficult for cameras to pick up any subtle hues, though likewise it is also difficult for the eye to pick them up as well, a lot of it will come down to personal interpretation which on the forum, our best option for is photographs. Once I get time this week, my car will be split down the middle with Product 1 going on one side, and Product 2 going on the other for a test to run alongside this one - again for fun.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

Dingo2002 said:


> Personally? i really couldn't see any differences. Beads looked roughly the same to me, both sheeted water fine,


for me, the sheeting difference was all i could see.. and product 2 left less water behind.. (by a noticeable margin)


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## Hoppo32 (Nov 18, 2008)

Not voted as my old eyes cant tell any difference in looks.
Are you sure theres any LSP on them at all and the beading isnt just being produced by the oils left over from polishing? (it's ok i look for conspiracy theories in everything lol)


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

First off thanks for doing the test Dave. It's been missed!

I'd like to say number 1 is SN Hybrid. 

Just a guess looking at the beading. 

Only due to sheeting i'll vote 2.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

gally said:


> First off thanks for doing the test Dave. It's been missed!
> 
> I'd like to say number 1 is SN Hybrid.
> 
> ...


well ive guessed 1=SN hybrid 2=Blacklight.


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## PootleFlump (Jan 1, 2006)

All looks the same to me


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Really appreciate what Dave is doing and as said even close up it can be hard to see any difference...

All we can do is post what we see and what we find and we can only show what we have even if it does not convey fully as been there.

I too have done the half and half over a whole car could get some right two face type results...:lol:

I recon one is Mr Sheen the other Pledge...:lol:


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## Hoppo32 (Nov 18, 2008)

james_death said:


> I recon one is Mr Sheen the other Pledge...:lol:


Laugh as you may but some people actually do this and the results can be stunning. AG Instant Show Shine is supposedly very similar in make up to these type of products


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## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

1 is sn hy
2 is megs 16

I like both!


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

so when do you tell us what is what dave?

is megs 16 a hybrid?


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## Deanvtec (Mar 3, 2008)

Product 2 for me, it stood out slightly in the photos as having slightly better clarity and sharper look, maybe it was the way the pics were taken and maybe the light had changed ever soo slightly? 
It also sheeted water a bit better than product 1, Beaded for me doesn't matter anymore as with our weather raining one minute then hot and sunny the next tends to make a mess of the finish of any car protected with a product that beads immensly and leaves dirty water marks. I prefer a product that sheets as much water as possible leaving less water on the surface.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

We want to keep the products a secret just now until after we have completed the tests, just so that any reviews people are making based on what they see without knowing what the actual brand is. Also, this is why I don't wish to share my thoughts so far, as I don't want to influence anyone's thoughts - this test is all about what members can see. I do appreciate that it is not the ideal test in many ways, and it doesn't take all factors of LSPs into account, hence why it is a bit of fun more than anything else. This test could be combined with loads of others, to form a bigger picture - so, I would view it as just a little piece of a bigger picture.


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## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

the suspense is killing me already


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Also, if you are voting - many thanks  If you are not voting because you cannot see a difference, again, many thanks for commenting to this effect as this is also a very valuable piece of feedback - I'll add the third option to the next poll after the snowfoaming of the panel, and for the test running on my car.

Just to say also - even if 1000 people vote for Product 1, and one person votes for Product 2, that doesn't make that single person wrong. We all have different preferences, whether you agree with the majority or not, this does not make you right or wrong.


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Oh Man we are in the Class room....:lol:


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

Product 1 from me, looks a little better in some of the pictures. Although I couldn't say why I prefer it, I just do. A very fair test and well put across so thanks for the time involved in doing it Dave.

If I went through the pics without knowing which went to which product I wouldn't be able to tell you though, haven't looked at the sheeting videos though.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Hoppo32 said:


> Not voted as my old eyes cant tell any difference in looks.
> Are you sure theres any LSP on them at all and the beading isnt just being produced by the oils left over from polishing? (it's ok i look for conspiracy theories in everything lol)


Yup, any polishing oils were taken off with bodyshop panel wipe at the end of the day's testing before the waxes were applied - although, some LSPs themselves contain oils which can certainly contribute to beading and sheeting, likewise some contains silicones, sealants etc etc, all of which can contribute to what you see for water behaviour


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## Stepo (May 2, 2011)

Product two for me based on the supplied pics mainly because of the water behaviour. Very slight differences to my eyes between the two in looks. 
My 2c


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## vxlfan (Oct 6, 2009)

I saw the panel on Saturday at Gordon's, and "in the flesh" there's a better clarity and sharpness in the finish with no. 2 when judged by the reflection of what can be seen in the panel. It's not a significant difference, but is definitely noticeable:thumb:


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## nothelle (Apr 28, 2010)

Couldn't see any difference, one is as better as the other...


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

I can tell that neither are black light...

Product 1 for me


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## Mr Face (Jan 22, 2009)

I must be blind & stupid, this is like being in a sweet shop. To me they both look good, where can we get a Glossmeter ?


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## Jordan (Dec 22, 2008)

had a look at the panel today.

both are indeed much of a muchness, however i went for number 1, and the only reason that i went for it is because there was lights from the ceiling reflecting onto it, POSSIBLY making the finish slightly clearer simply due to a higher exposure to light.

i can also confirm that only Gordon and Dave know the 2 products used, as Gordon is keeping incredibly tight lipped on what they are :thumb:


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## AllieCB (Jun 19, 2011)

Watching it live and in person I liked product 2 more. A tad shinier and repelled water better in my humble newbie opinion. :thumb:

And Dave KG has lived to see another day despite his slightly condescending remarks about his Glossmeter...


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

Cant see any differance sorry guys


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## supercharged (Feb 1, 2008)

product 2, tighter beading action...


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## ClioToby (Oct 22, 2009)

I think 2

Knowing you though, itll be Colly 476. 

For the record, anything looks good on flat red, and I dont like 476s.


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## rapidTS (Feb 24, 2010)

product 2 for beading


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