# detailing full time



## mouthyman (May 1, 2006)

Im seriously contemplating detailing full time, I currently detail in my spare time and have a few regulars, I also have extra work waiting and wouldnt think it would be to hard for me to gain steady work to at least begin with while i build up.

I have alot of products so my only main expenditure would be the van, and then overheads of fuel and insurance.

the problem im having is with trying to make the business plan, im having trouble researching a couple of areas and getting enough data to help me plan. can anyone give me any advice on this please?

im not sure what I would do about tax and how much is taken

I would need insurance, what cover would i need to be mobile? I know i need public liability and cover to customers vehicles worked on, anyone know how much roughly this would cost?
also do I need commercial insurance for the van, because I have had a quote from directline but it didnt have the option for business use

and finally what sort of costs are involved with stock and how often do you resupply

I know theres a lot of questions, but id appreciate any help


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## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

Tax depends on what you are earning really. If it is your only income and you are a sole trader it is just the same as every other self assessment.

Re: Insurance, PM Shiny on here. He runs Coversure which is a trader on here. have a look here for more info..

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=134

Every man and his dog is starting up as a pro these days, so be careful!


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## markcoznottz (Nov 13, 2005)

Every man and his dog is starting up as a pro these days, so be careful![/QUOTE]

Aint that the truth. Im not sure that established businesses on here take kindly to being asked how to set up and divulge all thier hard won experience. Its getting kind of silly now with near enough 1 a day asking start up advice. If you wandered into Quik Fit and asked them how to start a garage up they'd tell you to **** off pretty sharpish!.


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## SBerlyn (Nov 9, 2008)

markcoznottz said:


> Every man and his dog is starting up as a pro these days, so be careful!


Aint that the truth. Im not sure that established businesses on here take kindly to being asked how to set up and divulge all thier hard won experience. Its getting kind of silly now with near enough 1 a day asking start up advice. If you wandered into Quik Fit and asked them how to start a garage up they'd tell you to **** off pretty sharpish!.[/QUOTE]

Don't let it get to you! In my field I see a good 10 startups a week with 10 miles of me... Give it 6 months and there will be at best 1 still standing...

Let people find out for themselves how hard it is to run a successful business 

S


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## CliveP (Feb 1, 2009)

Gents,

Whilst it's true a lot of businesses wouldn't tell you their strategy etc, this is also a hobbyist's site and the OP is only asking which he is entitled to do, whether any professionals reply is up to them!

The sponsors I presume do well out of us as customers, otherwise they wouldn't be here....

Let's face for each one that asks there's loads that will never start up.

Mouthyman it is no doubt a very competitive environment out there, that said so is every business. Good luck if you decide to proceed.

Regards,
Clive.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

mouthyman said:


> Im seriously contemplating detailing full time, I currently detail in my spare time and have a few regulars, I also have extra work waiting and wouldnt think it would be to hard for me to gain steady work to at least begin with while i build up.
> 
> I have alot of products so my only main expenditure would be the van, and then overheads of fuel and insurance.
> 
> ...


Yer sure why not, il just send you the whole ins and outs of our whole business, why not  :tumbleweed:

Sorry but if you cant even sort your own business plan out or look in to costs and expenses your self id say you will struggle to run a proper legit business, there is a lot more to detailing (or any business for that matter) than just doing the work.

I could be wrong but its just my opinion.


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## [email protected] (Dec 21, 2005)

He is only asking for some advice mate, the best way forward,? like anybody in his situation no matter what business you are starting. In some ways thats what this forum is all about isn't it? Just my opinion.

Im sure we all asked somebody for advice somewhere along the line


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

bit harsh comments there lads.nothing wrong with someone to try and better them self.pm me mouthyman i will sort you some phone numbers out if you want what will tell you most things you need regarding setting up a buissness.


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## [email protected] (Dec 21, 2005)

Pm sent mouthyman:thumb:


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

autobrite-direct said:


> He is only asking for some advice mate, the best way forward,? like anybody in his situation no matter what business you are starting. In some ways thats what this forum is all about isn't it? Just my opinion.
> 
> Im sure we all asked somebody for advice somewhere along the line


Would you tell someone all your suppliers then (like where i can buy your cherry wheel cleaner in bulk and have them slap my label on it?), how to set up an online detailing store and what costs etc are involved.

Oh then help them make a business plan.

Nothing wrong with bettering YOUR SELF but why try to depend on others to do it for you.


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## DE 1981 (Aug 17, 2007)

TBH mate i would not suggest you go into this without at least having done it part-time for a good while that way you will have built up a client base and reputation and will be easier to scale up to going full-time its almost impossible imo to start off straight away and expect it to work.

This is a difficult time in the industry as a whole linked to the current economic climate obviously, every Tomas,Richard and Harry seem to be setting up car washes/valeting/detailing businesses and i would urge you to really think hard about whether you can make it a successful business as James rightly points out theres more to it than just the detailing.

Gav


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## Steven_Norfield (Jan 5, 2007)

james b said:


> there is a lot more to detailing (or any business for that matter) than just doing the work.


And that there is why most startups fail. Self employed people need to be accountant-sales-marketing-managerial-secretary-cleaner-IT support all rolled into one, and then you have to throw 80 hours a week at it for the first year or two - at least.

I've been SE for three years now, and its only now that I'm at beginning to be comfortable and see the real benefits of the work - it's been manic up ntil now, and make sure you have an understanding partner.

If you're prone to slacking even a little bit, dont bother - you'll flunk.


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## gaz205 (Jan 1, 2010)

Steven_Norfield said:


> And that there is why most startups fail. Self employed people need to be accountant-sales-marketing-managerial-secretary-cleaner-IT support all rolled into one, and then you have to throw 80 hours a week at it for the first year or two - at least.
> 
> I've been SE for three years now, and its only now that I'm at beginning to be comfortable and see the real benefits of the work - it's been manic up ntil now, and make sure you have an understanding partner.
> 
> If you're prone to slacking even a little bit, dont bother - you'll flunk.


I'll agree with that. If you still want to do it, try contacting your local Princes Trust office for help with doing a business plan.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Thats my point exactly, IMO doing the work is the easy part with what i do, if i had a constant stream of cars to detail day in day out my life would be easy, but i dont and its really not that simple, you will work like mad some times and still make worse doe than working for someone else, hey iv worked before and then lost money, but thats what it takes sometimes.

I dont think people realise it until they have tried it.


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## Steven_Norfield (Jan 5, 2007)

gaz205 said:


> I'll agree with that. If you still want to do it, try contacting your local Princes Trust office for help with doing a business plan.


Also check out your local Business Link, and Barclays have seom excellent free seminars. Look about on their business website, their software package is top drawer.



james b said:


> I dont think people realise it until they have tried it.


There's a huge misconception about being your own boss. Every single time you have a day off you don't think "time to relax" you think "ah crap I'm losing money" :lol: People think we just work when we feel like it, not so, we work when we're told by our customers!


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## CliveP (Feb 1, 2009)

james b said:


> I dont think people realise it until they have tried it.


James,
I completely agree with you my friend!

Regards,
Clive.


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## mouthyman (May 1, 2006)

I didnt mean to get anyones back up with my questions.

obviously i dont expect anyone to walk me through it all, but as im not in direct competition i thought that someone may be able to give me a rough idea of running costs to help me work out a business plan. (research)

I detail part time at the moment and have done for some time, but trying to work out how much product I will use detailing daily is hard to judge and work out. and added extras like insurance cover etc.

the main reason I posted was because this is such a big decision and slightly daunting, so i thought maybe any pro's or members may be able to offer some words of wisdom, im sure you all went through the same experience and i just wondered how you all got through it.

I am a slightly confused about some of the comments posted about not realising what a business is and being your own boss etc.
I am fully aware of the level of commitment and work needed to be put in, and never mentioned it to be easy money or working whenever i like, and I also never asked for a list of your suppliers 


sorry if this has annoyed anyone, this was not much intention.


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## -ROM- (Feb 23, 2007)

Mate, i'll give you some basic advice. 

Firstly if you've got a full time job, i would seriously think twice before going it alone in the current financial climate.

If you choose to do it then don't worry about running the business, you'll start off as a sole trader, you can even use your own personal bank account. 

If you can do the work to the required standard and get the customer base you need to turn a profit and keep the wolf from the door, then the admin side will be a walk in the park! The way some of the pro detailers on here talk, they would have you think they're running multinational company; when in reality the majority are running what is a very small concern in what is little more than a cottage industry.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

A business plan is your yearly plan and you need to decide what you want to earn and what your goals are. The problem with a business plan for detailing is it is hard to control your sales/prospects as you are not directly selling, ie knocking on doors or cold calling where you can build a prospect list. Most is advertising or word or mouth, so is so hard to say I will do x amounts of jobs that month. Even I don't know more than say 3 months out that I have enough bookings. I have never done a business plan because of this.

This is my 3rd year now and has been hard, lost several customers due to them going bust, but picked up quite a few as well. Offering more than just detailing now and it has turned around.

Banks like business plans but backed up with a solid marketing/sales plan.


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

Make sure the plan is watertight because if you go into a bank cap in hand without REALLY doing your homework they will laugh at you.


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## mouthyman (May 1, 2006)

thanks:thumb:

Mirror Finish I know where you are coming from and your point about a business plan being difficult to create for detailing this is exactly why i created this thread.
I have been a member on DW for some time and know the members on here to be very friendly and supportive and thought that anyone may be able to give me some words from experience as to how they created their business plans, or researched costs.

I want a good solid business plan, so who better to research and seek advice from then other detailers who have gone through the same process.
thanks for your advice.

and im sorry again if this has annoyed others


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## David.S (Dec 27, 2009)

why should it annoy others
they cant stop you 
you are not asking for there secrets j
ust a bit of advice
i thought that was one of the points about forums


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## mouthyman (May 1, 2006)

David.S said:


> why should it annoy others
> they cant stop you
> you are not asking for there secrets j
> ust a bit of advice
> i thought that was one of the points about forums


so did I, and thats how I thought I had asked the questions, but it seems that some members may have misunderstood me and got annoyed


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

+1 for business link mate, they are very good and very supportive.


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## David (Apr 6, 2006)

mouthyman said:


> so did I, and thats how I thought I had asked the questions, but it seems that some members may have misunderstood me and got annoyed


i think its more to do with the fact you've come on asking basic business stuff that YOU should do seen as it will directly affect YOU.

If one of the pro's on here gave away any information i recon it could transpire to another 5 people thinking "hey, that looks easy money, i could do that"

there are a lot of threads on here just now (one guy on here claims hes a pro valeter and asked to best to clean a plastic dash for example)

stuff like this is giving the industry a bad name as people see it as a quick buck


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## mouthyman (May 1, 2006)

David said:


> i think its more to do with the fact you've come on asking basic business stuff that YOU should do seen as it will directly affect YOU.
> 
> If one of the pro's on here gave away any information i recon it could transpire to another 5 people thinking "hey, that looks easy money, i could do that"
> 
> ...


I know its not easy money, and im not out to make a quick buck , Im definetly not wanting the pros to give away anything that can be used to give the industry a bad name, Im just after advice on how best to find out about the industry in a full time capacity.

I am doing the work myself, but am having trouble researching every area and acheiving worthwhile data, so i thought i would ask the detailing community


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## westerman (Oct 12, 2008)

Good luck to anyone starting up their own business. Go see your bank, they usually supply you with a new business pack with lots of advice. There are government schemes like Business Enterprise which may entitle you to some benefit whilst you are starting up (or there used to be) ask the questions and read up as much as you can as regards business plans and cash-flow forecast. Just don't expect your competitors to welcome you with open arms or worse, tell you their secrets and contacts. It's not going to happen! It's up to you to provide a better service so that you can attract the business. Been there and done it..it's not easy but very satisfying. As I say. Good Luck!!:buffer::thumb:


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

have a look locally see if there is a business centre who can help you put one together , the reason i say local is just that , if there is something you need then they are close , rather than deal with someone on the end of the phone.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

mouthyman said:


> thanks:thumb:
> 
> Mirror Finish I know where you are coming from and your point about a business plan being difficult to create for detailing this is exactly why i created this thread.
> I have been a member on DW for some time and know the members on here to be very friendly and supportive and thought that anyone may be able to give me some words from experience as to how they created their business plans, or researched costs.
> ...


Not annoyed me, Business Link is really helpfull and were my first port of call as I did not need a bank loan.


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

phone around regarding insurance you will be suprised with the difference of some.i have my van commercial use with one company.and my public liabilty&goods intransit with some other company.over 100 pound difference.so pays my road tax for six mounth.little things like that will save you wasteing money.look at what you have product wise see what can be used to start you off.


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## Steven_Norfield (Jan 5, 2007)

Biggest thing I can suggest is "Don't have any credit".

Far better to work for another year, buy all your kit and then do it. Statistically, something like 60% of new business fold in the first year, and being realistic it could well be you. If you don't owe anyone anything, then at least you're not having anyone knocking on your door which is when it gets real crappy.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

^^Too true, iv had credit for things for a business (vans, equipment and so on) and it was such a drain, especially when you dont get much work through the door (say a quiet month) i had to work dam hard to get out of it and id never do it again, its true you learn the hard way (my Dad told me again and again it was a bad idea but i never listened) but if you can learn from others and avoid it you would stand a much better chance.


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## David (Apr 6, 2006)

james b said:


> ^^Too true, iv had credit for things for a business (vans, equipment and so on) and it was such a drain, especially when you dont get much work through the door (say a quiet month) i had to work dam hard to get out of it and id never do it again, its true you learn the hard way (my Dad told me again and again it was a bad idea but i never listened) but if you can learn from others and avoid it you would stand a much better chance.


definately, still owe money on one of my vans plus a few other things, i've just paid off close to £8,000 of credit aswell.

Like you say its a drain constantly looking at what you've made, dividing it up into what needs paid/when/when it needs paid and then realising you are probably in minus figures, unless you nip it in the bud after you've cleared it, you will forever be paying back credit


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Held off this thread for as long as I could, it is hard to offer business advice, obviously some folk have made it work, but it depends on client base.
Even without assuming overheads just going on pure income April 2009 to reach £489 (UK average weekly wage) You will be wanting 5*£100 jobs per week.
That will be hard in itself from just word and mouth many of these jobs will be next to one off or if you're lucky twice a year, so you would have to look at smaller jobs and many more of them, then of course like it or not there is a lot of competition out there so the straight wash market will more than likely have to be pitched at the local forecourt prices.
I say fair play to those that are succesful in the game and good luck to those starting out in it :thumb:


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Its hard to put a figure on the amount of separate jobs you will need to make your money until you establish what end of the market your business is going to aim at, 5 x 100 pound jobs will not = 480 in your pocket as a wage, probubly 2/3 or a half of that infact.

Your likely to need 800-1200 pounds worth of turn over to make that as an in your pocket wage, another thing people who have not worked for them selfs dont seem to understand is that not everything you take in, is not money for you as earnings.

There are alot of factors that soon suck up a big % of income:

Tax
Insurance
Consumables
Vehicles
Advertising

Those are the main ones, but there are 20-30 other small ones that still add up to take a big % out of your turn over.


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## nicp2007 (Apr 25, 2007)

it is hard hard hard work working for your self in this business,

and as james says not everything you take is yours  i have lost count the amount of times i have had to turn down a night out with my mates and there reply has been "your minted you charge £000's to clean a car" yep but i have to pay close to £1000 pcm to have the business open,

i had a sit down with my accountet recently and it turns out that if i work a 50 hour week every week of the year, it will cost me around £7 per hour just to run the business, so if you are charging £15 an hour some people will think that is far to much to clean a car but in reality you are earning no more than you would if you worked at the local mcDonalds :thumb:

then there are the hours, 9 till 6 at the workshop working away and then maybe a bight to eat then 7 till 12 on the web sorting out advertising etc etc 

the compertition is fierce to, not only is there a new "pro" popping up on here every day but there is the ones that pop up locally to you too, half of the time these guys don't have a clue but they have the funds to set up, for example some if the "pros" on here recently have asked quistions like "how do i polish such a car etc" or "i've only been detailing 2 months" i think this is giving the real pro's a bad name 


i'm sure there is a lot more bad news i could give you too but i don't want to put you off too much, 

if you are good at the job and are very hard working and am prepared to be skint for the first couple of years, then go for it,

also i presume you are looking at a business plan to take to the bank to get a loan,

Y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

think about it, do you realy need a credit or could you just set up on your own anyways

if you set up without the help from the bank then it don't matter to much if you fold in 6 months time,

i set up 2-3 years ago and have never used credit for the business so it has no debt, sure there are a couple of things i still want but i just have to work a little harder to by them,


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## Steven_Norfield (Jan 5, 2007)

nicp2007 said:


> i'm sure there is a lot more bad news i could give you too but i don't want to put you off too much,
> 
> if you are good at the job and are very hard working and am prepared to be skint for the first couple of years, then go for it,


That's very true. Sure, I got a nice SLK now, but I also did 18 months driving a 1.4 C2 for 25000 miles a year, and trust me, the C2 aint no motorway muncher! But it was cheap, and it meant I didn't owe money.

Self employment is bloody hard, you'll only take a day off sick if something is literally hanging off by a tendon, the worry, the stress, the financial issues. But once done, it's fantastic. I wouldn't swap my long houred, hard grafting job to be anyones employee again.

Again, I stress - HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING PARTNER: That, more than anything, will be a massive factor when you're hacking 80 hour weeks.


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## nicp2007 (Apr 25, 2007)

Steven_Norfield said:


> Again, I stress - HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING PARTNER: That, more than anything, will be a massive factor when you're hacking 80 hour weeks.


good point i forgot this bit :thumb:

my mrs nearly killed me when i told her we were not goin on holiday this year, 
well apart from the nurbergring :lol:


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## Steven_Norfield (Jan 5, 2007)

nicp2007 said:


> good point i forgot this bit :thumb:
> 
> my mrs nearly killed me when i told her we were not goin on holiday this year,
> well apart from the nurbergring :lol:


We don't have holidays anymore, we have lots of long weekend breaks.


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## mouthyman (May 1, 2006)

thanks for the info guys,

Im not planning on taking out a loan or any finance, but want to create a business plan to try and see if this would be a viable full time occupation.
I think the best thing for me to do would be to try and get a van (with savings) and continue to run part time expanding the business and allowing me to create a better researched solid business plan.
hopefully if this works out and I can see a potential then i can go full time.

thanks for the advice guys:thumb:


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Agree with all the advice above and more or less everything rings true for when I went full time at this several years ago.


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## David (Apr 6, 2006)

just remember trade insurance doesnt usually start getting cheap until you're about 25


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## David.S (Dec 27, 2009)

nicp2007 speaks scence


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## David.S (Dec 27, 2009)

if your self employed remember

if you go on holls for a week
1. pay for holls
2. no pay
3. still have to pay for loans etc


paye 
1. pay for holls
2. get paid to go on holls


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