# Coating Questions



## scousefly (Jul 30, 2008)

I put CarPro UK 3.0 and then topped it with CarPro Gliss about 6-8 weeks later Some time last year(April)

Now I have bought some CarPro essence plus as I’ve read it helps maintain and repair the coatings. I plan on doing a full decontamination with prewash, CarPro iron x, CarPro Tarx, snowfoam with Bilt Hamner then using CarPro shampoo. Once all this is complete can I / do I clay bar the car before using the CarPro essence plus???????

What worries me is that clay barring will damage the coatings, will that be the case??

The alternative is to doing the decontamination wash process but then straight onto the CarPro essence polish but worried about the surface not being totally smooth and incurring swirls as a result. The essence plus is applied with no pressure on a white finishing pad by CarPro obvs :lol:

Thanks in advance


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## RossC (Feb 16, 2019)

Don't clay your coating bud, it'll do more damage than good, just do a thorough chemical decontamination.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

As above - do not clay your coating. Some will say that you can clay your car without marring, but not all of us are living in the real world sadly.

In theory your coating should repel these contaminants better than bare or less protected paint and the chemical decon should do enough to free up the surface for Essence Plus which is by the way is up there for 'worst named product'.


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## scousefly (Jul 30, 2008)

*Cheers*

Guys really appreciate the help saves me a job at least :thumb::thumb::thumb:


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## pina07 (Dec 13, 2009)

Hi, I’ve just done something similar......cars paint was in excellent condition so I did the decon twice Just to make sure I got all the contaminants off and skipped the clay polished then re coated up.
Hope this helps
Paul


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Just do a thorough chemical decon. I've used Essence Plus to rejuvenate a coating and it is very good at bringing back the gloss and repairing the microswirling in the coating. However, it doesn't have great water behaviour so leave it cure for at least 3 hours and recoat it or add another topper.


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## scousefly (Jul 30, 2008)

roscopervis said:


> Just do a thorough chemical decon. I've used Essence Plus to rejuvenate a coating and it is very good at bringing back the gloss and repairing the microswirling in the coating. However, it doesn't have great water behaviour so leave it cure for at least 3 hours and recoat it or add another topper.


When u say another topper do u mean add a coating again like say Gliss or do apply reload spray. I intend to do the reload anyway I always do this after a wash anyway


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Whichever you prefer. You could recoat it with CQuartz UK 3.0 if you wanted, or use Gliss or Reload. Once Essence Plus is cured, you can assume that the surface can accommodate a ceramic coating, so can also accommodate pretty much any other product too. If I was doing it, I would pick something that would last around a year at least.


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## The Guz (Jan 27, 2019)

Decon and use Elixir. Skip Essence Plus. You won’t like the performance compared to the coating. It also doesn’t last that long. 

You could try the 22ple non-abrasive clay bar with EcH20 at as a clay lube. It seems to not marr the finish.


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## scousefly (Jul 30, 2008)

*Any Ideas*

Where to get the 22ple clay from only seems to be state side so far??


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## Steampunk (Aug 11, 2011)

I'm tired of claying being demonized because it's click-bait to do so. This was once one of the core skills of our industry. One you had to master before you could reasonably move to more advanced tasks.

You can most certainly clay a car without causing marring. I've tested high-quality clay bars on ultra-soft paints with the suggested lube, and using good practice they did not induce marring. However, you can also damage paint with one if you ignore their feedback and use them like a Muppet, or if you persist in using an inferior quality/technology product.

In full disclosure, I have encountered certain paints and plastics that cannot be clayed with high quality products using even proper technique, without causing marring... Those materials also cannot even be touched with most microfibers without damage. They're extremes. I've also encountered evidence of actual _burnishing_, which increases the gloss of the paint, from the kaolin slurry released by good quality natural clay bars on hardier paints. That's another extreme.

If you ignore the feedback of the clay bar, and grind it into the paint with too much pressure, and too little lubrication, without re-kneading or replacing it frequently enough to avoid grinding the dirt you pick up off the paint back into it, or you try to tackle giant chunks of tar or similar, or you use a clay-alternative material which is unsuited for the purpose (Do you really think a sheet of rubber, a piece of refined kaolin clay, and a polymer clay with AlOx abrasives all act the same way?), you _can_ mess up paint with a clay bar.

If you use some sense, don't clay your paint like a rage monster, and use a good quality fine clay bar with the right lube, you won't mess up your paint... If you fail, you will, but if you have any sympathy for the material under your fingers, you won't... You'll _feel and hear_ if you're marring the surface. Then you have the option of changing how you're doing what you're doing the second you make that error, and carry on in a better way. You learn, and then you never make those same mistakes of not kneading enough, and applying too much pressure again. Within a few times of claying a car, you shouldn't keep making the same mistakes.

Motor skills are part of the craft. I really had to work on mine to achieve good results. I had to test various clay bars before I found ones which performed as I like. I tested lots of clay substitutes, and found they marred a lot more than actual clay... Then, I learned, and didn't keep messing stuff up.

Can you clay your paint prior to trying to topping it up after a time? Yes. Totally... Are you guaranteed to get it right if you've never done it before? No. That's part of life. If you mess it up, you see marring, you learn how to fix it, and then next time you have a much higher chance of not messing up again. When you make mistakes, you gain new skills by learning how to fix them. You also learn how to do stuff better, because you don't want to have to fix them again. Wash mitts are basic tools. Clay is a basic tool. Both can cause marring, but you can totally learn this stuff. It's detailing 101.

Regarding whether or not you should clay prior to applying Essence or Essence Plus? Well, that depends on a lot of factors... First off, with the full chemical decon, you're giving yourself the safest situation to clay possible. Most of what will cause marring will already be gone. As long as you use a good quality clay, like Bilt-Hamber, with sufficient quantities of the right lube (Water), you use very light pressure, you listen and feel for the tactile sensation of abrasion, and re-knead, or even replace the clay bar whenever this starts to happen, and you re-knead anyway whenever you start to see the clay get the slightest bit dirty after a small section of work, you'll be okay...

Mechanical decon is important. It removes things that chemical decon doesn't touch. I'd feel more worried about applying an LSP without mechanical decon, rather than skipping that step. If you test mechanical decon, and you find there's next to nothing on the clay bar because of the driving conditions of the vehicle, it is a bit of a wasted step... However, most vehicles these days will still pull up gunk on the clay after chemical decon, and that gunk will wreak havoc with the bonding of the LSP. Is claying a risk? Yes. Is it a risk that skill can avoid? Yes. If you mess up, can you learn to fix it? Yes. Will all those skills combined help you be a better detailer?_ Definitely yes! _

Do get a good clay bar... I'd suggest Bilt-Hamber Auto-Clay with water as lube (Use the medium or regular if your temperature is medium-hot, or the soft if your temperature is cool.), or Dodo-Juice Supernatural Clay with Born To Be Slippy or ONR as lube. Could you have a 'learning moment' if you aren't careful? Yes. Will you become a better detailer than those who immediately dismiss all forms of mechanical decon, if you do have a learning moment? Yes!

Do you want to be a detailer? If so, learn to clay... If you fail, try and try again. Failure is part of the process. When you don't fail anymore, you know you've learned something. You've become better.

- Steampunk


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## RossC (Feb 16, 2019)

Steampunk said:


> I'm tired of claying being demonized because it's click-bait to do so. This was once one of the core skills of our industry. One you had to master before you could reasonably move to more advanced tasks.
> 
> You can most certainly clay a car without causing marring. I've tested high-quality clay bars on ultra-soft paints with the suggested lube, and using good practice they did not induce marring. However, you can also damage paint with one if you ignore their feedback and use them like a Muppet, or if you persist in using an inferior quality/technology product.
> 
> ...


Not everyone has the time to become a master and hone their skills to the point they can safely use clay on delicate surfaces.

The risks of claying incorrectly on a ceramic coated car outweigh the pro's as its not just a simple polish stage to remove any marring it's a potential time intensive removal and reapplication of expensive coatings.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Steampunk said:


> I'm tired of claying being demonized because it's click-bait to do so. This was once one of the core skills of our industry. One you had to master before you could reasonably move to more advanced tasks.
> 
> You can most certainly clay a car without causing marring. I've tested high-quality clay bars on ultra-soft paints with the suggested lube, and using good practice they did not induce marring. However, you can also damage paint with one if you ignore their feedback and use them like a Muppet, or if you persist in using an inferior quality/technology product.
> 
> ...


Jon at Forensic Detailing recently done a video on this very subject with the opposite conclusion in that clay marrs & you must polish afterwards. Using quality soft clay, possibly bilt hamber soft he clayed the wing of his BMW after chemical decon, using ONR or shampoo as a lube. Now he experienced & showed the marring on the wing of his hard BMW paint from the claying process which was clearly distinguishable as the cause. As far as I can see he has taken every precaution possible to prevent the marring based on your own post.

- Paint was spotless & indoors.
- Chemical decon done.
- Fresh quality clay & lube.
- Good technique.

Can you explain how he experienced marring when he has followed the steps you suggest should prevent it? My own opinion is also that you cannot clay without inflicting marring, it's impossible.

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## Supa Koopa (Aug 3, 2015)

Brian1612 said:


> Jon at Forensic Detailing recently done a video on this very subject with the opposite conclusion in that clay marrs & you must polish afterwards. Using quality soft clay, possibly bilt hamber soft he clayed the wing of his BMW after chemical decon, using ONR or shampoo as a lube. Now he experienced & showed the marring on the wing of his hard BMW paint from the claying process which was clearly distinguishable as the cause. As far as I can see he has taken every precaution possible to prevent the marring based on your own post.
> 
> - Paint was spotless & indoors.
> - Chemical decon done.
> ...


I'm not surprised with the way he was doing it. It was more akin to sanding wood then claying a car. JMHO.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Supa Koopa said:


> I'm not surprised with the way he was doing it. It was more akin to sanding wood then claying a car. JMHO.


How else do you clay a car? Genuine question.

Minimal pressure & back/forward motion, not much else you can change is there?

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## Supa Koopa (Aug 3, 2015)

Brian1612 said:


> How else do you clay a car? Genuine question.
> 
> Minimal pressure & back/forward motion, not much else you can change is there?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


I agree that is the way to do it, but there is a great deal of scope in the interpretation of both minimal pressure and back and forth motion.

Personally I wouldn't post a video of how to do something unless I was completely sure I was doing it correctly but that is just me.

So, personally I wouldn't use a small ball of clay that provides very little feedback to the user and wouldn't be rubbing it back and forth like I'm trying rub out a pencil drawing, as to me that would seem like a very focused area of pressure. But then again I wouldn't want to preach the best way to do something as I'm only a weekend warrior with limited experiences. I watch many videos and read lots, some I respect highly and others I take with a pinch of salt. I find every day a learning day. I've not experienced Jon's issues with Bilt Hammer soft clay, but maybe I'm not being aggressive enough to remove all the contaminates so he may have cleaner paint than I.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

While I can't dispute what SP has said being extremely knowledgeable, there probably is 'an art' to getting a completely marr free finish with perfect technique on an uncontaminated vehicle, my argument is that this would surely be such soft clay, with such light pressure that I'd not be convinced over the effectiveness of removing any contaminants. It's impossible to categorically say how the clay and varying nature and extent of contamination will impact your paint (which again can respond differently).

That's why it's better to guard against claying and a sweeping statement of 'claying doesn't marr your paint' which many people make elsewhere on this forum aren't to be trusted IMO.

For what it's worth Jon was more heavy handed than I would be. I've never been able to avoid some marring but again I'm far from a pro.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

atbalfour said:


> While I can't dispute what SP has said being extremely knowledgeable, there probably is 'an art' to getting a completely marr free finish with perfect technique on an uncontaminated vehicle, my argument is that this would surely be such soft clay, with such light pressure that I'd not be convinced over the effectiveness of removing any contaminants. It's impossible to categorically say how the clay and varying nature and extent of contamination will impact your paint (which again can respond differently).
> 
> That's why it's better to guard against claying and a sweeping statement of 'claying doesn't marr your paint' which many people make elsewhere on this forum aren't to be trusted IMO.
> 
> For what it's worth Jon was more heavy handed than I would be. I've never been able to avoid some marring but again I'm far from a pro.


Nor have I with all sorts of clay mitts/clays etc. Makes me wonder if I'm doing something wrong but personally it seems impossible. If the clay bar is picking contamination up as you pass it over the paint, it's also going to marr at the same time. I don't see how it can be avoided.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## SadlyDistracted (Jan 18, 2013)

roscopervis said:


> Whichever you prefer. You could recoat it with CQuartz UK 3.0 if you wanted, or use Gliss or Reload. Once Essence Plus is cured, you can assume that the surface can accommodate a ceramic coating, so can also accommodate pretty much any other product too. If I was doing it, I would pick something that would last around a year at least.


Hmm, I thought Essence a mild polish and coating / coating prep for the likes of CP CQ UK / Gtech CSL etc. However, Essence Plus is _non_ abrasive and a form of coating/coating repair itself and NOT suitable as a coating prep (i.e. _not_ prep for CQ UK / Gtech CSL etc). I've used both and can recommend Essence as a pre-coating prep, also like the CP Gloss pads.


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## scousefly (Jul 30, 2008)

*My sentiments*



SadlyDistracted said:


> Hmm, I thought Essence a mild polish and coating / coating prep for the likes of CP CQ UK / Gtech CSL etc. However, Essence Plus is _non_ abrasive and a form of coating/coating repair itself and NOT suitable as a coating prep (i.e. _not_ prep for CQ UK / Gtech CSL etc). I've used both and can recommend Essence as a pre-coating prep, also like the CP Gloss pads.


Exactly. This is what it is advertised as so my intention was to chemical decom then polish the car with the essence plus. Using reload shampoo and reload SIo2 spray is just part of my normal wash routine anyway but must admit didn't expect some of the responses on here about it


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## Itstony (Jan 19, 2018)

Must contribute a comment *Brian1612* Only because a long while ago I did comment to Jon on FDC that I didn't like the way he used a C/bar. This was a genuine comment based on years of use and my own experience/mistakes. success etc. as we all do. made the mistakes and learn't how to reduce the risk.
I just cannot see why it's so common to go so fast. Akin to the people that sand headlights as another example. 
Must have posted the same comment so many times. The bare fingers for those unaware have unbelievable feedback for sensitivity. Using three fingers and the bar slowly and keeping the same repetitive motion is the key for feedback whats going on. Treat it with more affection than a chore or step to get done.

Anyone that did engineering training years ago will know what a "Micron comparison test" is. If might be worth checking, must be on the web to illustrate how amazing finger sensitivity is.

Not a statement this is perfect, only the best routine I came up with to really cut down on marring.

Just sharing again. Slow down. :thumb:


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Itstony said:


> Must contribute a comment *Brian1612* Only because a long while ago I did comment to Jon on FDC that I didn't like the way he used a C/bar. This was a genuine comment based on years of use and my own experience/mistakes. success etc. as we all do. made the mistakes and learn't how to reduce the risk.
> 
> I just cannot see why it's so common to go so fast. Akin to the people that sand headlights as another example.
> 
> ...


I'd like more info on the technique tbh as it's something I'd like to reduce when claying (marring) if possible. Couldn't by any chance do a little video showing how you clay tony?

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## Supa Koopa (Aug 3, 2015)

Itstony said:


> Must contribute a comment *Brian1612* Only because a long while ago I did comment to Jon on FDC that I didn't like the way he used a C/bar. This was a genuine comment based on years of use and my own experience/mistakes. success etc. as we all do. made the mistakes and learn't how to reduce the risk.
> I just cannot see why it's so common to go so fast. Akin to the people that sand headlights as another example.
> Must have posted the same comment so many times. The bare fingers for those unaware have unbelievable feedback for sensitivity. Using three fingers and the bar slowly and keeping the same repetitive motion is the key for feedback whats going on. Treat it with more affection than a chore or step to get done.
> 
> ...


Basically what I was trying to say, but you did it much more eloquently. 

Sometimes I think people follow YouTube videos blindly, this is how Joe Bloggs does it so it must be correct. I have never hacked away at my paint with a solid lump of clay, and if I did then I deserve the ensuing damage. As usual JMHO.


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## Infante (Apr 24, 2015)

In my ceramic protection vehicle maintenance services, every 6 months I thoroughly wash and decontaminate with Autofinesse Clay bar and labocosmetica purifying shampoo as lube since many of them have lost much of shetting and beading. After this, in addition to eliminating a large part of whater spots and contamination, the return of the properties is incredible and I never had a problem with creating marring or swirls. I think there is a lot of fear in this topic and uncertainty.

Enviado desde mi ANE-LX1 mediante Tapatalk


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## Steampunk (Aug 11, 2011)

Before I begin, my apologies to the OP for partially sidetracking the thread.

To give a more direct response, I think you need to examine your situation. It's been over a year since the car has seen a new LSP, or any decon. I'm guessing the reason why you're wanting to do something more intensive now, is because it's starting to feel to you that the performance from CQ UK and Gliss is falling off. This is not surprising. It's time for a fresh LSP, if you want that fresh LSP look, and not just to try and nurse the underlying CQ UK layer on for a little longer...

Contamination is one of those things getting in the way of the finish looking fresh. Doing a full chemical decon to start with is a great idea. After you do, examine the finish... See how badly the LSP is impacted after it's had solvents, iron removers (Localized acids), and alkalis thrown at it, and a really solid shampoo to help break up any traffic film. Sometimes the coating 'perks back up'... Sometimes, the coating throws in the towel, and shows you how tired it is.

If the surface is looking really tired after this treatment, I would advise claying if you're comfortable with this. I can attest that mechanical decon removes types of contamination that can be left behind even after chemical decon. I've even seen clay remove dirt that mild abrasive paintwork cleaners haven't touched, and create a smoother surface! Chemical decon just makes that process even safer. If you're not comfortable doing so, you can skip the clay step, but I can attest that LSP bonding and polishing effectiveness can be diminished if you do.

Essence Plus is a sort of non-abrasive glaze/LSP in its own right. If you apply this over the remnants of CQ UK, this will largely be what's functioning as your LSP, as well as Reload if you choose to top it this way. It won't actually 'restore' the real characteristics of CQ UK + Gliss. Essence Plus topped with Reload is a new LSP paradigm. It's certainly easier, and faster than re-doing your previous combo, but I'm guessing that if you're feeling the need to do something now, there's a darn good reason for it.

If you have the time, doing a full chemical/mechanical decon, buzzing over the surface with Essence, and applying CQ UK + Gliss over again is probably the best solution to getting exactly where you were a year ago. Anything else is just a sort of glorified top-up with lesser products. That process has its use, but you need to decide what you _really want _right now. A top-up that's a little better than just doing Reload alone, or to get the same level of protection back that you had when CQ UK and Gliss were in their prime?



Blackbeard said:


> Not everyone has the time to become a master and hone their skills to the point they can safely use clay on delicate surfaces.
> 
> The risks of claying incorrectly on a ceramic coated car outweigh the pro's as its not just a simple polish stage to remove any marring it's a potential time intensive removal and reapplication of expensive coatings.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


Fair enough, but I don't ever assume someone who asks a question has a limit on being able to learn about something they're interested in, when I write a reply. I give them the benefit of the doubt, because you never know what a person is capable of... Claying, or 'mechanical decon' to give it its proper title, is a core skill in prepping a car for polishing and LSP application. Ideally, you work your way up through those core skills, because at every stage you're seeing benefits that the subsequent - often more advanced - skills cannot replace.

There's a diminishing set of returns on each stage of the process. Washing gives a bigger 'wow' factor than either chemical, or mechanical decon; both of which tackle their own sorts of stubborn contamination. Polishing gives a smaller 'Wow' factor than just getting the vehicle properly decon'd. Polishing fixes a lot more than the LSP. The LSP contributes more to the appearance than the QD...

As for the risks of claying outweighing the benefit... I guess we're talking about how deep the defects are from an attempt at claying, and how much the LSP on the vehicle is still worth? I've seen nano LSP's last a fraction of the time they otherwise could, when mechanical decon is skipped. Applying Reload or Hydro2 weekly, when it could be applied ever 2-3+ months, gets expensive. As for the depth of the defects you could incur? That depends... I have seen polymer clay towels/mitts scratch the surface deeper than P3000 sanding paper. I don't suggest these technologies, as I find them inherently flawed. I favor a natural kaolin product... Claying doesn't strip good nano coatings, and at one point was even suggested as a way to restore them when they became clogged with contamination. The level of marring that could be incurred by claying depends on various factors. If done well, it's zero. If done poorly, those defects could be removed with the mildest finishing pad/polish, or need to be removed with a compound on wool. It depends upon the degree of lack of judgement when using clay.

More on this subject later...

- Steampunk


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## Steampunk (Aug 11, 2011)

Brian1612 said:


> Jon at Forensic Detailing recently done a video on this very subject with the opposite conclusion in that clay marrs & you must polish afterwards. Using quality soft clay, possibly bilt hamber soft he clayed the wing of his BMW after chemical decon, using ONR or shampoo as a lube. Now he experienced & showed the marring on the wing of his hard BMW paint from the claying process which was clearly distinguishable as the cause. As far as I can see he has taken every precaution possible to prevent the marring based on your own post.
> 
> - Paint was spotless & indoors.
> - Chemical decon done.
> ...





Brian1612 said:


> Nor have I with all sorts of clay mitts/clays etc. Makes me wonder if I'm doing something wrong but personally it seems impossible. If the clay bar is picking contamination up as you pass it over the paint, it's also going to marr at the same time. I don't see how it can be avoided.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


As has been observed by others in this thread and not just me, Jon @ Forensic Detailing in that detailing video, clays in what one could indelicately call a 'Ham Fisted' fashion. His results aren't all that surprising. Claying, just like washing, polishing, LSP application, or buffing polish/LSP residues needs to be done with a certain level of tactile sensitivity. Something most people never have to learn in their daily life, until they really want to learn a craft... Having a small bit of good quality clay bar, folded into the right shape, under your fingertips lets you feel and hear everything that's going on instantly, and when you turn it over to look at the light coloured surface, you can see what's coming up off the paint. This feedback is critical. _You have to listen to it_. You have to 'read the road' before you clay, just like you have to 'read the road' when driving, and adapt to it. If you can see or feel something under the clay bar, you stop, you look at the clay, you look at the paint, and you then refold and replace the clay as many times as needed to avoid marring the patch of contamination you've encountered... You _have_ to be sensitive. If you lack the ability to judge pressure, or have compromised tactile sensitivity in your fingertips for some medical reason, this is a process that will be quite challenging to learn, as you'll lack the feedback it takes to help you learn it quickly. However, even if that level of tactile sensitivity and delicacy with pressure doesn't come naturally to you, it's something you can practice... I've had to practice it. I certainly wasn't born that way. I developed that skill by _doing things_ - like claying, or polishing, or sharpening razors and woodworking tools and kitchen knives, photography, etc - that forced me to learn a finer sense of touch.

You're perfectly right in visualizing that claying removes particles that can act abrasively. Keep imagining that while you're claying, because that's a very important part of the process... However, up to a point, good quality clay bars, when used with the right lubricant, can isolate and protect the paint from that which they remove. Take a look at your clay bar after claying, and run your fingers over the working surface. A bit of dirt you see is embedded deep into the surface, and you can't actually feel its sharpness. Also, as long as you don't apply too much pressure, the hydraulic film of the liquid on the surface helps to buffer the clay from the paint. As long as you're very conscious of, and constantly checking those abrasive particulates, and re-folding before damage can happen, you're pretty safe from marring. Good quality clay, like Bilt-Hamber, can be ground into paint with surprisingly extreme pressure providing the surface is wet enough, without marring even quite soft paint. You just have to be conscious of the level of contaminants.

Pressure has also been mentioned... This is another very important factor. Claying isn't about pressure, but time. You can remove bonded contaminants very quickly with clay, by applying a lot of pressure on your stroke. This also massively increases your chance of overwhelming the clay's ability to isolate what's coming off the paint, and cause marring. Clay with many passes, rather than much pressure. Time will remove safely, what pressure and impatience only rewards with damage. Gradually remove stubborn contaminants. If you're pressed for time, and the paint's already marred, power down and get the job done faster... But if you want to avoid this, take your time, and be gentle/observant.

Lastly, regarding the use of ONR or shampoo or similar clay lubes with B-H Clay... This isn't the right lube for this clay. You need plain water. With plain water, Bilt-Hamber clay generates its own lube (A sort of slurry from the clay breaking down.), and any surfactants or polymers in the mix just really gets in the way of it acting as it's supposed to.

Claying was definitely a learning stage for me, and if I'm careless, or use a poor quality product, I can still leave marring... Just like if I use a poor quality microfiber or too much pressure to buff off my LSP, or I don't listen to the feedback of my pad while I'm polishing, and don't keep it clean enough. Claying is an early introduction to the concepts you really need to rely on later on, and helps to teach delicacy. If you are indelicate, it'll spank you, and you need to keep working until it teaches you that skill.

Jon's a guy I have some respect for, as I think his heart is in the right place in regards to being passionate about detailing, but I think he was too hasty when it came to clay... This is a skill. Some skills come naturally to you, and other skills take time, and the skills that take time you sometimes have to trust the results of other people before you believe you can achieve them yourself. You have to work through the block you have, and persevere. Sometimes, very hard. Those skills you have to work hardest for, are the ones you can be proudest of at the end of the day...

There are instances that, after having worked through everything you can, you can trust yourself over others with experience. You can then have the right to say 'this doesn't work in this situation', when you have practiced and studied enough to find the reason(s) it doesn't, and prove to yourself unequivocally why. You have the right to that opinion, then. However, that opinion has to stem from humility, in having first humbled oneself to accepting failure and believing in the end goal enough to overcome it. Claying is something many people have achieved safely. If you haven't, it's worth figuring out why, and whether or not the solution that works on your paint was worth it to you.

I hope this helps...

- Steampunk


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

SadlyDistracted said:


> Hmm, I thought Essence a mild polish and coating / coating prep for the likes of CP CQ UK / Gtech CSL etc. However, Essence Plus is _non_ abrasive and a form of coating/coating repair itself and NOT suitable as a coating prep (i.e. _not_ prep for CQ UK / Gtech CSL etc). I've used both and can recommend Essence as a pre-coating prep, also like the CP Gloss pads.


You are correct, my apologies. Essence is the primer for a coating, Essence Plus the repairer. It still cures and accepts toppers though.


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## scousefly (Jul 30, 2008)

*Guys*

Thank u all for the responses

Steampunk very informative as usual 

I think I am going to use a very soft clay bar and some new products to do a chemical and physical decontamination. nice and easy to stop any marring and as directed probably a Gliss coat on top after a buzz over with the essence pro


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## scousefly (Jul 30, 2008)

*Update*

So I did a full decom and wash and the car appeared fine (I hadn't washed for about 2.5 months) when it come to applying reload on the bonnet as an interim the water marks from old rain, probably with all sorts baked on meant that reload just didn't rejuvenate. So I polished with essence plus and it came up like new. Don't know why but the bonnet appears to be the worst on the whole car but all the other panels were ok.

I haven't clay barred yet still not sure I need to and I have a new bottle of Gliss that I will do again before the winter sets in


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