# Possible right off questions



## alipman (May 10, 2007)

How do all,

I will be brief:

My missus car was hit by someone in her wok car park.
They own up.
Assessor notes a new front wing, and new bumper and they have been told of a vibration in the steering.
So currently £800+ vat plus the steering thing.

Car is an S plate Mondeo.
Value is not a lot.

Questions!

What valuation guide do they use to assess how much my car is worth?
If I see other cars that are on autotrader, for example for about £1300, at what point do insurance company's consider righting the thing off against repairing it? I know it may depend on each insurance company.

I am rather miffed that I might have to get a newer car when I didn't want to, anyway that's my problem. FFS!


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## gordonpuk (Mar 14, 2010)

I had a T reg Vectra CD, had it from new, full main dealer service history,
immaculate, everything working, was rear-ended last year and the car a write-off all I managed to get from them was £950, like you I had no plans to replace the car but ended up £5k out of pocket to replace, and all the inconvenience, paperwork,phone calls.
G


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## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

gordonpuk said:


> I had no plans to replace the car but ended up £5k out of pocket to replace


But you didn't have to replace it with a £5k car?
My Escort got written off after I got hit and the person who hit me did a runner from the scene. I got £1400 after my £100 excess was removed despite my protestations that I couldn't get another Escort in the same condition for £1400 at the time. I even suggested to the assessor that he kept the bloody money and went and replaced the car for me if he was so adamant that was what it was worth.

I ended up putting the £1400 into £10k of Mondeo and very pleased that I did too.


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## alipman (May 10, 2007)

"ended up £5k out of pocket"

On this point, yes I too wont replace my S plate Mondeo with another S plate Mondeo, so I will be looking at around £4K as the missus only uses it to go from work and back = 5 miles per day.

I am looking at a Mk3 Mondeo as they will have better safety than my MK2 Mondeo.


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## gordonpuk (Mar 14, 2010)

No I didn't have to spend £5K on car but then I don't see the point your making!
My Vectra was good spec so I wasn't going to replace it with a wreck,
£950 would be very unlikely to replace like with like.
G


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## alipman (May 10, 2007)

gordonpuk said:


> No I didn't have to spend £5K on car but then I don't see the point your making!
> My Vectra was good spec so I wasn't going to replace it with a wreck,
> £950 would be very unlikely to replace like with like.
> G


I was trying to make the point that I wont replace my car with another of the same age/plate, I wouldnt get something as good with only 70K on the clock in the same condition. So I need to look newer.


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## gordonpuk (Mar 14, 2010)

alipman said:


> I was trying to make the point that I wont replace my car with another of the same age/plate, I wouldnt get something as good with only 70K on the clock in the same condition. So I need to look newer.


Sorry that post wasn't in reply to yours, but Johnny guitar.
The point your making is the same as mine, which is why we'll both be out of pocket.
Personally I'd prefer to have my old Vectra over the Mazda 6 I replaced it with.

G.


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## alipman (May 10, 2007)

Ah ok.

I see.

Its a pain cos we have to find money for a car that I didn't want to have to buy.
in all fairness a newer car will be safer than my old one but its all about the money....


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## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

gordonpuk said:


> No I didn't have to spend £5K on car but then I don't see the point your making!
> My Vectra was good spec so I wasn't going to replace it with a wreck,
> £950 would be very unlikely to replace like with like.
> G


I agree that if you had bought an identical car and the choice of cars you had meant you had to spend twice as much as the settlement from the insurance company, then you would have been out of pocket. If you choose to up your budget to £5k, surely that's your decision - ok you didn't want to buy a new car, but you didn't have to spend the money.

Same as me when my car was declared a write off and I chose to spend a lot more on a newer, better car - didn't have to but I decided I wanted to.


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## Mike_182 (Mar 22, 2007)

Insurance isn't about betterment. In fact, that's illegal. You might see your car as a peach, but if Wayne Rooney strolled past on the way to his Range/RS4/Whatever he'd see it as a £900 bag of spanners. You can't then moan that because you've only got £900 for your £900 bag of spanners, that you've 'got to go out and buy a Rolls Royce because [yours] was a mint £900 bag of spanners'.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

As above, the purpose of insurance is to, after an incident, put you back in the same financial position as you were before the incident (less any excess).

It's the cars value as a financial asset, ie it's market value, not what it is worth to the owner. My Accord is almost priceless to me, never let me down, it's in excellent condition, always been looked after and is probably one of the best in the country. I wouldn't swap it for a car for worth £2k, but i know that if it ever got totalled, i'd be lucky to see £600/£800 as you can pick them up now for as cheap as £300. 

If i were to sell it privately, i'd also be lucky to get £800, as this is it's market value, even at top book. But I'd never find a replacement anywhere near as good for £800. That's not the Insurer's fault though.


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## alipman (May 10, 2007)

Thanks for all the replies.
Still waiting for the insurance company to give an answer on this one but in the meantime:

If the car is deemed a write off, how long can I expect to have to get another car?

Can anyone explain how the process goes?
I am guessing that the insurance company contacts us to say the car is a write off then offer an amount. Then would a salvage company come round pretty sharpish to take the car away?
Or do I get a little bit of time to sort something out? The car is currently drivable. Some has dented the front wing and bumper.


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## Coops (Apr 26, 2008)

Never been in this situation but would think you are made an offer then given time to decide. Probably a week or so until salvage co collect.

Also do you get the option to purchase the vehicle and repair yourself? Heard of cases like this before.

At least it's still driveable mate.


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## SimonBash (Jun 7, 2010)

alipman said:


> Thanks for all the replies.
> Still waiting for the insurance company to give an answer on this one but in the meantime:
> 
> If the car is deemed a write off, how long can I expect to have to get another car?
> ...


If your insurer is dealing with this they will probably want to inspect the vehicle at the garage where you have obtained the estimate, if the repairs exceed their opinion of its market value they will write it off.

Once you agree a figure (assuming it is written off) a cheque will be issued, as long as by this point your insurers have received service history, v5 etc. As your insurers will not provide a courtesy car there is no time limit to replace it.

However, if you want to claim for loss of use, the other parties insurers will only pay what they feel is reasonable.


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## SimonBash (Jun 7, 2010)

With a car of this value your insurers will probably let you keep the 'salvage' for nothing or a minimul cost as they will only get a % of its pre-accident value from their salvage agents.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Best wait and find out if it is definitely a write off, and if so, what category. Retaining the salvage may not be an option.

If the vehicle is a cat A or B, you will most likely need to cease driving it immediately. If it is a cat c or d, you still may not be able to drive until it has been repaired and, possibly MOT'd. You will need to speak to your Insurers and find out their stance on it, a lot will depend on whether they deem the car "roadworthy", as it is a condition of motor policies that the insured car is kept in a roadworthy condition.

To be fair, at the moment there are too many variables and possible outcomes to really give you an in depth answer, post back when you have a bit more info and then we can explain the next step in the process.


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## alipman (May 10, 2007)

Thanks all, The last thing I need is to be changing cars but I shall post up with more details.

Below are the photos showing good side V bad. Hope they are not too big.

Its the left front wing that was biffed!


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Approx 4 years ago they were going to write my Accord off due to similar damage when i got hit on a roundabout. I ended persuading the Insurers to give me a cash in lieu of repairs based on the write off value, without actually writing the car off. Not very often they do it, but it helps being in the game i guess. I then paid for the repairs myself by a garage i know without having a written off vehicle. It was the wrong decision to write it off for a damaged wing when the rest of the car is immaculate and, after i had sent a load of pictures of the car looking it's best to the claims underwriter, he was in full agreement with me.

The main reason they were going to write it off was due to the cost of the "potential" damage to the parts, such as the hub. As my repairers told me, the hub is cast iron, so it is either knackered (ie cracked) or not, as you cant bend cast iron. Turned out in the end it only needed the upper wishbone to sort out the damage to the suspension. You may find that your steering vibration is a simple fix to a damaged part of the suspension arms or similar.


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## alipman (May 10, 2007)

That is certainly a lot more damage than mine!
Was there anything wrong with the tracking? Mine seems to be wobbling at 70 mph. at about 40 mph its fine.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

It wasn't really drivable, although i had to chase down the chap who hit me as he tried to do a runner! Wobbled like hell and couldn't steer. The wheel took some impact although it didn't bend the wheel at all, it just bent the upper arm (wishbone) so the wheel was completely unaligned. When it was fixed, i got all the geometry set up again, but i tend to do that every so often anyway due the car being lowered.

If your wheel took some of the impact, it may just have misaligned the tracking or bent one of the suspension arms. May have even lost a wheel weight! 4 wheel laser alignment is circa £70 and they should be able to pick up any problems for you, but i wouldn't spend that yet until you know what is happening with the car.


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## alipman (May 10, 2007)

Thanks,
Yes, I will wait and see. Some "Albany" shower seem to be messing things up, part of Admiral?

Anyway, If I get the chance to buy the car and fix it myself I might do that.

Just out of curiosity, If this is classed as a Cat D right off, will it be more ££ to insure?


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Some Insurers won't insure a previously written off vehicle at all. Some will want a full SVA check, some will be happy with proof of repairs and a fresh MOT.

The other problem you have is that they may only offer TPO cover, on the basis you have already received a payment for the value of the car, or only insure you on the salvage value. Some insurers are happy to increase this if you show proof of repair, but remember if the car was ever written off again, your offer will still be much lower as it is a previously written off car.


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## DiscoDriver (Oct 27, 2009)

Hi Lloyd

How do insurers view kit cars that have been built potentially using an insurance write-off as the donor?


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

I don't think there are any real issues with that as kit car Insurers understand that kit cars are generally built from bits & pieces any way, running gear from this car, chassis from that car, interior from another car etc. 

It's been donkey's years since i've done a kit car quote so i must admit i'm a bit rusty, but it may be prudent to mention it, although i can't possibly see how it will affect anything as the proposed risk is completely different to that of the original written off car.


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## Karmann (Apr 5, 2010)

If they offer you a low amount for the car and it wont be enough to replace the current car (age ,condition,ect ) dispute the payment and send them an email or letter including and for sale in Auto trader or internet. I have known a couple of people do this and they have recieved a substantial increase in their payout


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## alipman (May 10, 2007)

Thanks all,
well it has been classed as a Cat C write off.
Great...

Not happy.
waiting for insurance company to give me the low down on what happens next.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

You will get a "total loss" offer, which you may or may accept depending on what it is obviously.

You can also ask the Insurers if you can retain the salvage, in which case they will reduce the offer by the salvage value and you can then get the car repaired at your own expense. Be aware though, not all Insurers will allow you to retain the salvage, even if a cat c or d.

Early stages yet though still, keep us updated and we'll try to help with any queries you may have.


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

YHPM.

Hopefully I can help you get the best settlement.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Share the love then, it may help others!


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

It's kinda long winded to be fair. 

The main thing with most newer cars is, the final valuation according to the finacial ombudsman is Glass' guide valuation, this means they have to use the valuation and give you enough money to purchase the same car from a GARAGE similar spec and mileage. This means things like autotrader PH ect... are nonsense, it doesn't stand up in court. Glass' guide determines what value you recieve on your car.

They will then remove your excess and any major pre accident damage on the car, large dents heavy kerbing on wheels, rust. In most cases the engineers don't bother too much but they can if they want take moeny off the value of the car.

Hope that's a little helpful.


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## alipman (May 10, 2007)

What about if the car is rare, not that a Mondeo 1998 is. just for other peoples benefit. Is this rarity reflected in the Glasses valuation?


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Depends what you mean by rare?

I have a Racing Puma with only 300 left in the world or are we talking Kit cars where there is only 1 of them.

In the latters case a figure would probably be agreed when the policy is taken out. As most Classic car owners take out because Glass' guide would value them very low.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

If a rarer model has a higher market value, then it _should_ reflect in the valuation.

Autotrader etc are, as you say, pretty much useless to a certain degree as they only advertise an asking price, not the actual sale price, but they can help a case if an offer is way off. Usually though for every 10 cars on Autotrader above the offer value, you can easilly often find 10 cars below the offer value so, it can backfire.

I find the actual "sold" price of a car does help in negotiating an offer, such as ebay and pistonheads. It is easier to demonstrate an actual value this way, rather than someone's asking price.

Then on the other hand, some adverts are just way off the mark - http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...postcode/eh320tp/page/1/radius/1500?logcode=p


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## Mike_182 (Mar 22, 2007)

Shiny said:


> Then on the other hand, some adverts are just way off the mark - http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...postcode/eh320tp/page/1/radius/1500?logcode=p


Have you asked them if they genuinely mean £13k?! Surely that's £1300 worth at most?!


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

If the car is writen off and they give you less than you can replace the car you can reject the offer, if you send proof (ie adds of identical cars millage year spec etc) and they are all off the mark from what they gave you then some times (not always) they will raise the offer. 

Iv done it before and it worked, done it again and they was not having none of it, but you can do this, book price is only a guide, reality is they do have to give you what it costs to replace the car lie for like.


* i really should have read the whole thread before posting *


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## alipman (May 10, 2007)

So the big update.

The car has been written off and we are still waiting for a settlement offer.

Now my missus has asked for a quote for a different car cos we are getting shot.
And even though it wasnt the missus fault, it will cost around another £100 because of this other persons fault.

I would say things like, "this aint right is it?" but I guess it is?

She is now a bigger risk of being involved in an accident all because some woman drove into her empty at her work car park, according to her insurance company.

Time for some ringing I think.
I will start with the neck of this other woman first!


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Is that a quote for a change of vehicle on your existing policy? The accident shouldn't make any difference to the underwriting until renewal time. The only difference should be a change in rating, such as a newer car or higher group rating.


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## alipman (May 10, 2007)

We are (were) looking for a Volvo S60 Group 14, her current car is a 12, so yes I expect it to be higher anyway.
She was told by Admiral that the accident DOES make a difference and will do for the next 3 years cos they ask "have you been involved... in the last 3 years?"

She got them to run the quote through without any accident i last 3 years, Bingo Bango £105 less.

She got a quote for a full year. We havent been down the road just yet of what it will be to the end of her policy cos thats renewed in October I think.


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