# Wheel cleaners: Viro-Sol vs. P21S



## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

How come pro detailers are buying into expensive P21S non-acid wheel cleaner, when there appears to be a much cheaper non-acid alternative in Viro-Sol? _Approximate_ price difference (5L purchase): P21S £11 per 1L vs. Viro-Sol £1.40 per 1L.

After Wonder Wheels wrecked a set of my alloys a few years back, I checked out the non-acid alternatives: P21S Gel, Sonax R2000 Gel and Muc-Off. Now Muc-Off, like Viro-Sol, is much cheaper, but the container gives the warning: _"Not suitable on unlacquered wheels or where lacquer is damaged". _I still tried it to see how well it cleaned, but didn't intend using it long term for the fear of any unlacquered areas, such as light kerbing. I mention this because I'm fishing for reasons why Viro-Sol isn't preferred over P21S. I've also read somewhere, IIRC, that alkaline cleaners are potentially corrosive - is Muc-Off an alkaline, and maybe Viro-Sol also?

Viro-Sol info: http://www.cloverchemicals.com/uk/products/hard_virosol_uk.htm


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## Chopper (Jun 23, 2006)

At looking at the Data sheet for Vir-sol it contains SODIUM ALKYLAMINE CARBOXYLATEA. ALKYLAMINE is a compound consisting of an alkyl


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## Finerdetails (Apr 30, 2006)

Car Key Boi said:


> How come pro detailers are buying into expensive P21S non-acid wheel cleaner, when there appears to be a much cheaper non-acid alternative in Viro-Sol? _Approximate_ price difference (5L purchase): P21S £11 per 1L vs. Viro-Sol £1.40 per 1L.


would you take the risk on someone elses £120 k car and also the risk of looking like a complete **** for the sake of £11? My reputation as a Professional Detailer is worth far more to me than £11!

The job of the Pro Detailer is one of quality, I have two bottles of P21s, thanks for letting me know how much they cost me, couldnt have told you.

I never order on price, I order on quality and performance.

Best of luck with the Viro-sol have had ecperience of it, may as well use diluted fairy Liquid IMHO.


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

Chopper said:


> At looking at the Data sheet for Vir-sol it contains SODIUM ALKYLAMINE CARBOXYLATEA. ALKYLAMINE is a compound consisting of an alkyl


Wikipedia's definition of alkyl loses me. Is it an alkaline, and is alkaline definitely a potential problem?


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

Finerdetails said:


> would you take the risk on someone elses £120 k car and also the risk of looking like a complete **** for the sake of £11? My reputation as a Professional Detailer is worth far more to me than £11!
> 
> The job of the Pro Detailer is one of quality, I have two bottles of P21s, thanks for letting me know how much they cost me, couldnt have told you.
> 
> I never order on price, I order on quality and performance.


So you use P21S because you're unaware of the properties of V-S. Fair enough, but doesn't really answer the main question


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## Tone (Oct 25, 2005)

I seem to remember that virosol was being sold under another name and people on other boards were raving about its cleaning abilities. There might be a thread on here about it actually..

Edit: Also autobrite do their own version of virosol called orange zest. Might be worth asking them about it if no one here can help


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## Chopper (Jun 23, 2006)

On page 2 of the data sheet i found this at the bottom:


> State: Liquid
> Colour: Orange
> Odour: Pleasant
> Evaporation rate: Moderate
> ...


Dont know what the 1% means but 11.4 is very alkali ph level


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

Chopper said:


> On page 2 of the data sheet i found this at the bottom:
> 
> Dont know what the 1% means but 11.4 is very alkali ph level


Okay.

It didn't take long to discover Muc-Off is: _"Biodegradable-Non Caustic-*Alkaline Based*-Solvent Free"_. So is it the alkaline in Muc-Off which prompts their warning: _"Not suitable on unlacquered wheels or where lacquer is damaged"_?


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Theres a couple of people on here who use Viro-sol (dont quote me but I'm sure DetailFinish uses it on wheels) maybe ask him if he's had any problems?

As he's only done high end motors.

**edit** found one :thumb:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=10032


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Car Key Boi said:


> How come pro detailers are buying into expensive P21S non-acid wheel cleaner, when there appears to be a much cheaper non-acid alternative in Viro-Sol? _Approximate_ price difference (5L purchase): P21S £11 per 1L vs. Viro-Sol £1.40 per 1L.


I've got just over £15k in Snap-On gear in my garage, though I guess that I could undo most nuts using my Grandads old pipe wrench.

I'd rather use something that I know will do the job that I intend it to, whatever that job may be.


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## pete330 (Apr 18, 2006)

I use it

in fact i clean my hands with the stuff also


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

L200 Steve said:


> I've got just over £15k in Snap-On gear in my garage


That's a full six screwdriver set and a 20 piece 1/2 inch socket set then!


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## talisman (Nov 20, 2006)

have used viro-sol for a couple of years now with zero problems on my current r32 and previous porsche boxster, would add i never put it on warm wheels or leave for to long and always wash it thoroughly, i use it so much on the family cars i buy it in bulk as i know the local stockist, and great value for money, i even tried a product from them this week called actiffoam there version of snow foam, so far very impressed mixed it with ****tail of shampoos, so for really basic cleaning chemicals i can,t see the point of the branded goodies most of which i have tried so have a bench mark to judge against.


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## Chopper (Jun 23, 2006)

Ph table
If you scroll down to the colouful chart on the right-hand side it shows that house hold ammonia is ph level of 11.5:doublesho


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## Trix (Jul 1, 2006)

I've used this gear for over 2 years too.. My TT's wheels have been kerbed so there is some laquer as well as paint damage. 

In the 2 years I've been using it and thats up to 3 washes a week (spray on pressure wash off) I have seen no deterration in the wheels..

Hope this helps mate..


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## squeal (Mar 3, 2006)

seen orange zest mentioned on here as a pre spray on the bodywork-tried a weak solution myself as a tfr pre sprray and didnt appear to strip wax-and as it is 'citrus' based would the be a similar product to cg citrus wash?


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## Refined Reflections (May 12, 2006)

I have used Viso-Sol and Autobrite Directs orange zest cleaner, I personally couldn't find a difference in work ability, performance, smell, colour etc. I use loads of the stuff now, different mixes for different jobs (9:1 for wheels/engines, 49:1 for bodywork, weaker for interior mats etc) never once have I had a single problem with these products.

I think a lot of the time its really down to personal findings, trust and product use knowledge, I'm more than happy to stick with what I know and what works, I respect others views, maybe one day i'll try something different but while I still have over 20lts of undiluted Orange Zest I'll keep with this.


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## ResB (Feb 16, 2007)

I've been using Viro-sol for quite some time. No problems at all. In fact I can only praise the stuff.


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## MrJoshua (Nov 13, 2005)

I used to use Virosol (in fact I found that it was what MC-2 was before rebranding and made it public) however I now use Ph Neutral Delimonine as I had a BAD experience with Virosol on unlacquered wheels (instant corrosion/dulling of the wheels).

Ph Neutral has to be better than Ph 14! (sorry for digging up this thread btw)


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2007)

Surely diluting any acidic/alkaline product with water is going to start pushing the Ph value towards neutral though? The neat product(Virosol) may well have a high Ph value but even diluted 4:1 with water, you are going to see it drop considerably. IIRC, P21S is RTU, so it's not suprising that it's Ph value is much less than neat Virosol.


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## Phil H (May 14, 2006)

P21S is the best in my eyes, safe and i know when using it its ok.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Phil H said:


> P21S is the best in my eyes, safe and i know when using it its ok.


Totally agree, although it's the worst on my nose:lol:


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## kordun (Sep 4, 2010)

Started using P21s/R222 about 2 months ago and can’t believe how good is this product. Used many different wheel cleaners in the past but this is so far The best. A bit pricy but worth all money. I got it of flbay 5L around £70


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Chopper said:


> On page 2 of the data sheet i found this at the bottom:
> 
> Dont know what the 1% means but 11.4 is very alkali ph level


It means it's PH 13.4 neat and at a 1:100 ratio it will be ph11.4 :thumb:


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2010)

What a thread revival, 3 years old :doublesho


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