# Reflectology - Golf 4motion



## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

*Last Friday saw me travel over to Leeds for an "Enhancement" on a Golf 4 Motion as I had only seen images of the car via PM and a thread posted on here from another Detailer, a price was agreed over the dog and bone, but when I got there:doublesho....Oh well, you win some you lose some, it was being readied for a little venture into Holland for the MIVW show so I wasnt going to let the chap down....

I was though extremely surprised that what had been done previously (less than a year ago) had gone un-noticed for such a long time....now as in previous threads I do say that everyone has a mistake or mishap under their belt so maybe some of this can be forgiven, the other detail took 30 hrs and concentration can lapse spending such an amount of time on a job but you can make your own mind up....I spent a little over 10 hrs to achieve the results I have....

When I arrived the Golf looked like this....*































































































































*Now the customer assured me that his maintenance plan was pretty poor and the swirls etc were most likely a mix between himself and the local corner car wash guru's, he has also admitted that he did have the Porter Cable out and has basically taken the blame for inflicting the buffer trail....again its make your mind up time on this but the following pics cannot be excused....wet sanding marks to the lower rear quarter panel, and quite severely missed during previous detail....to which I think the owner was shocked as i pointed these out to him....*




























*And onto the rest of the work in hand....*



















*I must say the kids on this estate need some discipline, this is someones car not a goal post....*





































*Some may see this as quite a controversial write up but its like Catchphrase....ddwwingggg Say what ya see....thats how i see it and frankly I shoot from the hip, I started this at 7am Friday morning completed it at around 6pm that evening, take away the photograph time and as I say a little over 10hrs and 2 stages of machining with a further burnish on top....no corners cut and defects that were not originally noticed by the owner....I am specifying time purely and simply because of products....there is a thread relating to Scholl and that short setting is not getting the best from the polish, i strongly disagree, each set took around 60-90 seconds, in total around 5hrs polishing with S17+ on a Scholl Blue Pad and then again on an Orange, then a black foam came out and the burnishing began, now some might say that S17+ is a little course for this process, well maybe if you try it you will see how well it actually performs....

Anywhoo after the usual wash routine with Permanon Yacht Cleanser and a clay with SN clay and Megs last touch for lube as it was a speedy type of job I opted for Permanon Supershine as the LSP....I hope you like the results....*














































































































































































































































































































































*Thanks for looking and hope this write up doesnt offend anyone....*


----------



## ROMEYR32 (Mar 27, 2011)

Cracking mate, I miss my black MK4. It never looked this `black `though!


----------



## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

Great job there matey.


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Nice looking reflections, though no after shots under lighting makes it hard to really judge the finish achieved (you do have befores under lighting though) so cannot really comment on the machine finish. 

A word of caution if I may about halogen light sources - good though they are as work lights, I would not recommend their use for finish assessment or demonstrating the finish as the broad area of relatively bright light can mask fine marring and holograms... this is made worse outside in bright ambient conditions where *all* light sources will struggle more owing to the lower difference in contrast between ambient light and the light source used.

No doubting a shiny car in the afters, and missing wet sanding marks in a 30 hour details is unforgiveable... though personally, I reckon it is rushing it to finish that leads to concentration lapses as opposed to taking ones time and focussing on the ultimate finish :thumb: I know you disagree about short setting and long setting Scholl, and we all have our own working styles and techniques and demonstrate results using light sources (on the whole) - Like IP on a Kompressor pad, S17+ will finish hologram free too when short setted but is it really at the maximum levels of gloss and clarity than can be delivered, or is more to come from longer sets that many detailers achieve. Food for thought  Car does look shiny.


----------



## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

Dave KG said:


> Nice looking reflections, *though no after shots under lighting makes it hard to really judge the finish achieved (you do have befores under lighting though) so cannot really comment on the machine finish.
> 
> A word of caution if I may about halogen light sources - good though they are as work lights, I would not recommend their use for finish assessment or demonstrating the finish as the broad area of relatively bright light can mask fine marring and holograms... this is made worse outside in bright ambient conditions where *all* light sources will struggle more owing to the lower difference in contrast between ambient light and the light source used.*
> 
> No doubting a shiny car in the afters, and missing wet sanding marks in a 30 hour details is unforgiveable... though personally, I reckon it is rushing it to finish that leads to concentration lapses as opposed to taking ones time and focussing on the ultimate finish :thumb: I know you disagree about short setting and long setting Scholl, and we all have our own working styles and techniques and demonstrate results using light sources (on the whole) - Like IP on a Kompressor pad, S17+ will finish hologram free too when short setted but is it really at the maximum levels of gloss and clarity than can be delivered, or is more to come from longer sets that many detailers achieve. Food for thought  Car does look shiny.


A little self-contradiction the 2 comments made in bold....you either want people to use lighting or not, which is it to be....if though you are referring to direct sunlight I cant really tell the clouds to do one nor can I ask the big old ball of fire in the sky not to hide behind them....as for other light sources I had packed them all away as I just wanted to get home mate, it was an early start that day....so I am very sorry i have inconvenienced you....

Alas once again you deem it necessary to try and belittle my way of working by suggesting that I have rushed this job to get it completed and that it is this that ends in mistakes being made and lapses in concentration, so in essence what you have said is that if I spend longer on the job mistakes wont occur....Mmmm....

Have a think about that mate, and the next time you deliberately try and undermine my working style and the experience I have working with the polishes used do it in a PM....you are only making yourself sound ridiculous with the clever remarks....but as I am not the only one on the receiving end of your smart mouth you are open to say what you like, the thing is I openly admit hen i am wrong and hold my hands up, it seems that you need to be right all the time....

Thanks for the shiny comments by the way.....


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Russ, you said yourself you were posting a controversial thread which is fair enough, many like to do that, but when it is questioned don't then go and throw your toys out of the pram with childish posts trying to pick faults in wordings.

I can't help but wonder here Russ, why no direct light shots of the results after, in such a hurry? It takes little time to do, and generally best done before waxing after thorough paint wipedown to assess the true finish. If you are going to profess about the machine finish in a thread, then I think it is only fair and reasonable to expect decent pictures of it under lighting to be able to assess it rather than just some shiny afters... many other detailers do it, on many of their writeups and it goes a long way to showing the true results that are achieved rather than just having to guess. Yes, the afters show a nice shiny car, but this tells me very little about the actual quality of the machine finish. 

There is no contradiction Russ, unless you are purposefully looking for one of course... The word of warning about direct light sources in daylight is not contradicting a statement that suggests one should be using them. It is suggesting that if one can get indoors then it allows the light sources to perform much better for paint assessment, which is one reason a lot of detailers do not work outside. However, something is better than nothing and as this thread stands, I see no direct lighting afters. 

Again Russ, you see fit to reply to a friendly discussion and highlighting of points with a post of unprofessional personal attacks which really do you no favours at all... Rather than discussing, you just seem to wish to attack me personally, fair enough if that is your way I suppose, but I prefer to discuss things in a professional manner myself. I shant entertain with replying to the attacks directly 

If you do post up about working styles and question other threads openly however, then I do think that discussion is perfectly fair in the thread where the methods used were initially discussed - otherwise, nobody on the forum can be party to what would be a very useful discussion.


----------



## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

the "controversial" part of the thread was not that of working techniques and styles, merely because it may upset someone on here....you have openly had a go about my working style, I have made no personal attacks other than in retaliation as to what I have been on the brunt end of, from yourself....now i am only too happy to discuss openly things that are relative but I dont see where attacking someones style fits the bill, oh and yes I was in a hurry, it was a Friday night and I was in Leeds, working again somewhere totally different on Saturday, I had also been working the previous 7 days but I guess we cant all have the school holidays off, so I guess yep, i was in a hurry....

I fear that your response that you Shant reply to these attacksdirectly mean you would rather like everyone to see what you have written, now as this is my thread in the studio I would like you not to post any further in it or I will ask for the posts to be removed....


----------



## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

strange thread mate, really strange!!

why are you finding the need to slate other detailers to big yourself up? as you said, that was detailed a year ago?!

and i think you are being quite aggressive towards dave, which is unfair too! you seem to have quite a big chip on your shoulder!! just my opinion


----------



## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

ianFRST said:


> strange thread mate, really strange!!
> 
> why are you finding the need to slate other detailers to big yourself up? as you said, that was detailed a year ago?!
> 
> and i think you are being quite aggressive towards dave, which is unfair too! you seem to have quite a big chip on your shoulder!! just my opinion


Why do i need to big myself up, others on here say about other detailers work, its just that recently i have put many others work right but its a public forum is it not and when those posters come along and start shouting name and shame I wont, but it just goes to show you how the work of others affects the business we are in....


----------



## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

I have to say that I dont see the point in putting 'before' shots with direct lighting and 'after' shots showing reflections in indirect light. Doesn't do your work justice in my opinion. You've worked really hard to correct the paintwork, so show it off! :thumb:


----------



## badman1972 (Jun 24, 2010)

Regardless of the 'controversy' a lovely looking end result with some fantastic reflection photography as we are becoming accustomed to from your work, nice one mate :thumb:


----------



## Giosabcsl (May 15, 2011)

amiller said:


> I have to say that I dont see the point in putting 'before' shots with direct lighting and 'after' shots showing reflections in indirect light. Doesn't do your work justice in my opinion. You've worked really hard to correct the paintwork, so show it off! :thumb:


As he did say he was rushed for time.I do believe he had put his equipment away. Im sure if he had the chance to take the pics he would have. But otherwise great work.


----------



## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

Hi Russ 

Thought i would speak up as i am one of those that well will help anyone out when ever asked and the finished pictures in your work on many threads you post always look good but to show a true finish the only thing your posts lack is maybe some good 50/50 shots or some direct light (sungun or cheap version) shots i really think you writes up would be spot on then. 

I hope you take this as a helpful post and not a dig at you bud 

Regards 

Lee


----------



## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

Thanks for the kind comments from all that have made them....regarding after shots with no lighting I have explained, as I am sure you all know from my other threads I do try to get these while I am working...

Found these 2....









This is after a 90 second hit with S17+ on a Blue Scholl pad...









werent the best image wise which is why i didnt put them up....


----------



## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

BespokeCarCare said:


> Hi Russ
> 
> Thought i would speak up as i am one of those that well will help anyone out when ever asked and the finished pictures in your work on many threads you post always look good but to show a true finish the only thing your posts lack is maybe some good 50/50 shots or some direct light (sungun or cheap version) shots i really think you writes up would be spot on then.
> 
> ...


This is what i call constructive criticism mate, the sort that is well recepted:thumb:

I do though get 50-50 shots from jobs but dont always post them up as I used to....will start again....


----------



## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

Reflectology said:


> This is what i call constructive criticism mate, the sort that is well recepted:thumb:
> 
> I do though get 50-50 shots from jobs but dont always post them up as I used to....will start again....


No worries even if it's only one or two shots to show the public that you are getting good correction I personally respect detailers more even when they are doing enhancements to show true pictures where some marks are left in the paint but a good enhancement has been achieved then them angling the camera slightly to show perfect paint when people in the know will know this is not true.

I have to hold my hand up I only recently started posting work up myself as my picture taking was awful but now making more effort when time allows to start taking lots of pictures but I do know where you are coming from regarding time sometimes a lot to fit in one day and last thing you have time to do is pictures.


----------



## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

Why do you use Permanon Yacht Cleanser russ?Is it good stuff.Would it be ok for caravans with that been sensitive paint


----------



## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

chrisc said:


> Why do you use Permanon Yacht Cleanser russ?Is it good stuff.Would it be ok for caravans with that been sensitive paint


its just a really good shampoo and about the same price as others, i also like the fact that its my maintenance shampoo for Permanon details but the be all and end all is its cleaning ability for shifting bugs etc....


----------



## DetailMe (Jan 13, 2011)

Come on you two!


----------



## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Glad the owner has eventually had his car sorted Russ. Never easy when you have to follow in others foot steps, especially after wet sanding and paint thickness.

The owners name is not John But any chance????

Gordon.


----------



## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

nice looking reflections,

quite interested in permanon products recently but haven't been able to find a supplier..
wouldn't mind a pm if you have a supplier mate..
just looking to test there supershine coating.


----------



## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

DetailMe said:


> Come on you two!


sorted, a few nice and friendly PM's have cleared the airwaves:thumb:



caledonia said:


> Glad the owner has eventually had his car sorted Russ. Never easy when you have to follow in others foot steps, especially after wet sanding and paint thickness.
> 
> The owners name is not John But any chance????
> 
> Gordon.


Without sounding a little abrupt but no matter who my customers are I wont divulge any info about names etc....


CraigQQ said:


> nice looking reflections,
> 
> quite interested in permanon products recently but haven't been able to find a supplier..
> wouldn't mind a pm if you have a supplier mate..
> just looking to test there supershine coating.


Yes mate I will fir e a PM over but they are signing up as traders on here....


----------



## tonyy (Jul 26, 2008)

Fantastic job...


----------



## DetailMe (Jan 13, 2011)

Reflectology said:


> sorted, a few nice and friendly PM's have cleared the airwaves:thumb:
> 
> Without sounding a little abrupt but no matter who my customers are I wont divulge any info about names etc....
> 
> Yes mate I will fir e a PM over but they are signing up as traders on here....


Good mate! Nice job btw, like caledonia said always a more cations job in these circumstances! How do you find permanonto be, I see it's popping up in this country now

Chris


----------



## planktom (Jun 15, 2011)

Reflectology said:


> .....and when those posters come along and start shouting name and shame I wont....


just by writing there is already a thread about this car *you even did !*...and thats just behavier from companies i´m used not to work with:wall:
...or do you think the users are too stupid to use the search ? :lol:


----------



## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

planktom said:


> just by writing there is already a thread about this car *you even did !*...and thats just behavier from companies i´m used not to work with:wall:
> ...or do you think the users are too stupid to use the search ? :lol:


oh hello....by the sounds of it you are some sort of expert on this sort of thing....do i think people are stupid?no....did i mention any names?no.....did i point people in the direction of the previous thread?no....am i in control of other peoples actions?no....now if you dont mind, do one as I have had a lengthy conversation with the chap involved today and does he hold me responsible for any of the repercussions?no....

:spam::spam::spam::spam:


----------



## ashman (Jan 13, 2010)

Wow i totally understand why both parties might be annoyed but come on. There is no need for this. Chill out people!


----------



## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

planktom said:


> just by writing there is already a thread about this car *you even did !*...and thats just behavier from companies i´m used not to work with:wall:
> ...or do you think the users are too stupid to use the search ? :lol:


I must be.Have not a clue:tumbleweed:
That could be down to the john smiths though


----------



## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Reflectology, you have a done a great job, love the paint fleck in the pictures, certainly sharpened the paint up, owner must be real pleased, i would be.

Thanks for posting have a great week.


----------



## BRUNBERG (Oct 21, 2010)

Finish looks good to me


----------



## Demetrios72 (Jun 27, 2011)

Great work there guys 
Keep them coming in :thumb:


----------



## Starck (May 6, 2011)

Nice results achieved :thumb:

Any afters of the door shuts? I am curious if you managed to remove the grease (Poorboys APC 1:1 did not shift any grease on my shuts...)


----------



## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

Starck said:


> Nice results achieved :thumb:
> 
> Any afters of the door shuts? I am curious if you managed to remove the grease (Poorboys APC 1:1 did not shift any grease on my shuts...)


didnt get any afters of the door shuts as it was getting on and i wanted to get myself back to Sheff....It did come off but took some doing and i would say only 95%, still has the white stain that it leaves behind....nothing I use normally touches it but I have an anti bacteriacidal cleaner which kills and cleans in a mean fashion so that helped out immensely but mainly scrub a dub dub.....


----------

