# Newbie - Straight to rotary, am I mad?



## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Having had enough of breaking down #80 by hand today in the blazing sun ( drunk 8 pints of water and my shirt was soaked in sweat, done half the car!), I'm seriously considering getting a Silverline rotary with a Sonus blue pad before I die from dehydration. 
I can't justify the money a PC would set me back, and I just know I'll eventually start doing the off-roaders some point down the line, which will take rotary corrective power to restore the paint. Totting up I can get hold of a Silverline + backing plate + pad for a touch over £50 with VAT and postage, which is just about as much as I would stretch to for shiny paintwork.
It'll be matched up with DC1, DC2, 2 coats NXT, followed by #7 Glaze and then Vic's Concours (Don't like megs waxes), so it's going to be worth the finish, looks great by hand, so....)
Now I practically use angle grinders to cut my toast in a morning, so I'm not unfamiliar with the type of tool, but is this a very silly idea, I've been reading up a fair bit and watching the megs. videos, and I reckon I'll be OK, but I'm guessing so did every other newbie as he's wondering what the silver patch in the middle of the paint is?

And recommendations for alternative pads/plates (was thinking about Sonus SFX1/2 Pad?) to soften the learning curve or should I stop right now and spend it on beer?


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Straight to rotary can be a big jump, but many have done it - those who have been machine polishing before the 7424 was even a glint in Porter Cable's eye for example. 

If you choose to do this what I would do is get yourself a scrap panel for practising on. Removing defects is easy, its finishing down LSP ready that takes time and practice, so work on your finishing technique, remmemberring the slower speeds tend to be ideal for this and ensuring the polish is thoroughly worked... #80 has a very long work time, so bear this in mind. If there is a skilled rotary user near you, cross their palm with some beer tokens and get them to show you the basics and some safety precautions just to get you started. 

Its not the impossible taks that many have said it is, just so long as you exercise common sense and care, and practice control of the machine on panels and hone your finishing technique.


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## Paulm31 (Jul 27, 2006)

good luck with it all. i went in straight at the deep end with my aote rotary, and slowly but surely im getting a really good lsp finish now. Ive got a spare roof panel that i practise on to get pressures right etc. And somehow ive even managed to get a very near lsp finsih with using only the halfords rubbing compound on a cutting pad! then all of a sudden my eyes opened even more when using megs #80 on a finishing pad.


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## gerry connelly (Nov 16, 2006)

I too went staight to a silverline rotary.......only downside as far as I'm concerned is the weight of the machine......as long as you're sensible with the rotary speeds (no higher than 1500rpm) you'll be ok


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2007)

I would also invest in plenty of QD and masking tape. 

QD is for priming the pads, helping the polishes to keep going when they start to dry out with the heat generated (unless I've got this bit completely wrong) and is also great for learning to balance the rotary.

Masking tape for protecting trim and plastic body panels.

From my short experience with an orange Silverline rotary, the first step is to learn to balance the polisher. The pad needs to be kept as flat as possible to the paint surface or you will find it controlling you not thge other way around. Using a finishing pad and QD as lubrication instead of polish is an excellent way to practice this without abrading paint away. I was passed this tip from another member on here and found it to be excellent advice.

Once you have learnt to balance the rotary - you should be able to keep it still on the paint surface holding it only with the trigger hand and then be able to move it around using that hand also - try tipping the polisher up, down, left and right very slightly to see how it moves. Understanding how it moves on it's own will help you know what form of correcting action you need to take if (and when) you no longer have the pad flat to the surface.

Then start practicing with polishes, like #80, on a finishing pad. The rotary transforms a finishing pad into something that is very useful for defect correction when combined with a polish.

Last night I used #83 on a polishing pad at 1500rpm and the paint surface was noticably warm - at a guess around 30°C.


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Thanks for the advice, I'll probably not be going as far as the masking tape route, I shall go grab a few scrap panels from the local yard to practise on.

I know all about #80's long work time, my back muscles have kinks to prove it.

Should I step down to the SFX1 pad then - given I'm only removing light swirling and I don't need a lot of cutting power?


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

I believe it can be done with care and lots of common sense.

I would recommend the Megs pad range as some of the easiest to start with as they are quite sympathetic to starting out.

Menz polishes are are quiet oily so can also help a safe start.

There is no substitute for experience so if you can spend sometime with some who has experience with one it will help.


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Yellow Meg's pad then?
Will be sticking with my #80 as don't want to spend any more money really, I have a lube for the pad which I made up in order to work the #80 by hand, rather than QD.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2007)

PhillipM said:


> Yellow Meg's pad then?
> Will be sticking with my #80 as don't want to spend any more money really, I have a lube for the pad which I made up in order to work the #80 by hand, rather than QD.


If you are only going to buy one pad, get the beige (tan) finishing pad. The yellow pad is the polishing pad and on a rotary a definate step up in aggressiveness - forget what you may have read about a finishing pad with the PC, on a rotary it is a totally different beast.


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Will do, think I'll take the plunge then, cheers all.



And now I can blame you lot when it goes horribly wrong


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

#80 will need no additioal lube to use it, its allready a very oily polish and has a long work time from its own lube content.


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Just using it to dampen the pad on the rotary first, don't worry


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## Roman (Jun 14, 2007)

Glad you started this thread Phil, I am in the same position myself.


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## Pete. (May 12, 2007)

i jumped straight in and bought a makita rotary and i have to agree, getting the polish finished down properly is certainly the hardest part but with time im getting there. definitely practice first though!


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Got to be easier than breaking it down by hand without getting more swirls!


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

I've gone for it, bought one off roman and splashed out on a few megs pads, here's to the smell of burning paint!


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## Paulm31 (Jul 27, 2006)

you'll soon notice the smell if you do!


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Well I usually manage burning flesh so it'll make a change.


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## Offyourmarks (Jan 4, 2006)

phillip, you will need a PTG. More especially with a rotary.

kind regards

Matt


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Nah, bugger that. If it goes through I'll airbrush it back in.


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## DrWho (Apr 3, 2007)

I'm also considering to buy me a Makita 9227CB instead of (keep...) waiting for an UDM...Being a newbie to rotary's as well I know this can be a steep learning curve, but getting myself some scrap panels should help out alot.

And this is the basket of products I had in mind:

Meg's: #83, 82, 80, 7
Meg's pads: Finishing, polishing, cutting
Meg's rotary backing plate 5"

Is there something I'm forgetting? I want to get this right from the first time, the whole order would cost me about £293 so far. All advice would be welcome


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## richie.guy (Apr 10, 2006)

IMO it's very rare you use a cutting pad on the rotary.

I'd get extra polishing pads over cutting pads :thumb:


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## DrWho (Apr 3, 2007)

richie.guy said:


> IMO it's very rare you use a cutting pad on the rotary.
> 
> I'd get extra polishing pads over cutting pads :thumb:


So only use polishing and finishing pads? And that is sufficient on rotary use?

#83,82 and 80 on the polishing (each with their own pad) and the #7 on finishing pad?


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## richie.guy (Apr 10, 2006)

DrWho said:


> So only use polishing and finishing pads? And that is sufficient on rotary use?
> 
> #83,82 and 80 on the polishing (each with their own pad) and the #7 on finishing pad?


You may need a cutting pad, but it's not likely for most situations.

I never use finishing pads either but that's personal preference. I apply glazes like #7 by hand or by PC, never bothered applying with the rotary so i can't really comment on that one.


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

I just bought two finishing pads and #80, 'cause all the cars I work on have soft paint anyway.


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Well, a lull in the rain had me running out like a kid with a sledge at the first sign of snow.

Used the wool pad (didn't want to kill the megs pads) with #80 and my own QD mix.
The task? 1 side of a 1-pack red Triumph GT6 bonnet, complete with full on clamshell-shape.

After being sat in the elements for 20 years and never washed, it had various bits of moss, a weird chicken-skin effect, and 400 claw marks and dents from cats and various tools being stored on it.

Perfect.

Picked up the bead perfectly first time around, had a little wobble going over the clamshell but within a minute I was away, 1 handed over a clamshell.


Did three goes of:

2 passes @ 600rpm to spread product
1 pass at 800rpm
1 pass at 1000rpm
3 passes at 1400rpm
2 passes at 1000rpm
4 passes at 800rpm

Took around 10 minutes.

Only have a camera phone at the minute, but I could do my makeup in it if I was that way inclined. Still a lot of marks in it that aren't removable though. 
Very suprised I got no swirls with the wool pad, but that may be the dimples of the paint hiding them even under direct sunlight.


Great fun!


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Well, what do you practise on when it's raining outside?

It needs to be painted, it needs to be sturdy, and preferably have lots of clearcoat to play with.

For preference it should have been slept on by the cat and cleaned with a brillo pad.

The microwave it is then. But only after her indoors has gone shopping.

Phone camera so the picture is dreadful, but you can just see difference on it:










Used #80 and a finishing pad, although it seems to dry out fast for me, even supporting the machines weight?
Couldn't get some marks out, could do with trying some #83 I think.


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

For those that are really tempted to go for the Rotary as a first machine - bare in mind that the Ultimate Detailing Machine wont be much longer in being released. I've had a good play with one and apart from a couple of design flaws i was pretty impressed with it - its definitely a good bit more powerful than the PC and the level of correction it can achieve is very very good..

Maybe something to think about, as using a rotary is fine and easy on big flat areas, its when you get to curvey wings and back 1/4's etc that some people begin to get a bit flustered and frustrated


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

I was OK with the clamshell bonnet with it first time out with no real problems (bar the wool pad catching some rust).
I think perhaps going straight to rotary may be easier than PC>rotary as you don't pick up any bad habits from PC'ing.


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Still with multiple hits of #80 plus 2 of my own polish mixes beforehand:










Time to practise on my own car now.


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2007)

What's the dark stripe down the centre of the polished section?


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Purple paint.

The cats jump up there, and the car used to be purple, so they'd worn the red away, leaving purple bits.

I might see if I can get it all purple! :lol:


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

1 thing though - #80 seems to dry out way too fast unless I mix some #7 in with it to give it more oils - is that because I'm using a finishing pad rather than a polishing pad?

It was a warm sunny day, but the pain was only warm to the touch.


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

This had me in stitches when I came through the door this afternoon - don't know why, just tickled me:










:lol:


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## Mr.Mexi (Feb 23, 2007)

hmmm, what car is that?


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Holy thread revival batman! :lol:

Truimph GT6, MkIII


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