# R222 100% Carnauba Wax



## chrisATR (Dec 9, 2007)

I have Just ordered some of this. I have been using the original P21s Wax for the last 3-4 months without complaints. Thought i would give this new stuff a try. Has anybody else tried the new stuff yet, if so your thoughts?


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

it wont be 100% carnauba thats for sure.

i think theres been a topic about this before, put it this way, Zym0l royale wax is something like 65% (i think) white carnauba, and that cost 7k :lol:


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

By 100%, they likely mean that of the wax content in the product, 100% of it is carnauba... these percentages, from all manufacturers are all best taken with z pinch of salt...

Not least because it seems in part irrelevant to the performance of the product, on that note I've not used the wax you mention but would be very interested to hear the results you get from it.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

lots of talk about it on Autopia as well, but not seen any results published yet - maybe ot a great winter wax?


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## chrisATR (Dec 9, 2007)

*100%*

Yeh i have read that they are qouting 100% becuase it now only includes the Carnauba wax where the P21s has Carnauba Wax amongst other waxes. Hopefully it will out perform the P21s, as i am pretty impressed with it. I would have thought that because they are now using only Carnauba, then there will be more of it by volume. Sounds logical. Hopefully.....

The applicator pad that it comes with looks pretty good. I will post up some pics when I have used it.


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## Kron (Aug 29, 2007)

From the sounds of it the durability is still a huge problem...

http://www.detailingbliss.com/forum/f38/new-version-p21s-291.html


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## Macko (May 6, 2007)

100% carnauba wax would be hard as concrete, literally.

I'm wary of any manufacturer that uses the 100% claim, if the product is any good why resort to deceptive marketing speak.


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## chrisATR (Dec 9, 2007)

Macko said:


> 100% carnauba wax would be hard as concrete, literally.
> 
> I'm wary of any manufacturer that uses the 100% claim, if the product is any good why resort to deceptive marketing speak.


I sort of agree. I like to keep my car in good condition, and use the best products that suite me personally. I use my car daily but it also gets garaged at night. I have found the P21s wax very good for me. I wash my car once a week, and clay then reapply the wax once a month, usually giving it two coats. The wax is still beading water when i come to reapply it after 3-4 weeks, and the finish on my Type-R is mint. (Its Vesuvius Red, and the wax really brings the pearl effect out). For me, this is fine, and i would be reluctant to buy a more expensive wax when this works for me.

For P21s to remarket the wax as 100% Carnauba is kind of silly as I would assume the target market for the new wax is going to be the same people who bought the original wax. I think they would have been better marketing the volume of Carnauba rather trying to be clever. Anyway, hopefully it will last a little long if nothing else.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2007)

why talk crap and not just try it


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## Silva1 (Sep 16, 2007)

Skinny said:


> why talk crap and not just try it


because all of us here know that it wont be 100% and if it was heres the reasons ^^


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## chrisATR (Dec 9, 2007)

Skinny said:


> why talk crap and not just try it


Because it hasn't been delivered yet, hence the reason I asked if anyone had tried it!! Thanks for the abrupt comment though. I thought most people join these forums to seek advice and talk to other enthusiasts, I guess your the exception...:evil:


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## V8burble (Jul 3, 2007)

Skinny said:


> why talk crap and not just try it


constructive debate will never die


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## welsh-andy (May 9, 2007)

tbh i used p21s for over 2yrs and still think it has one of the best shines around, just a shame they cant sort out the durability probs. i will probs switch to dodo juice have heard shine is up with ps21, but lasts like 10 times longer


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## chrisATR (Dec 9, 2007)

*Customer Services Response*

I emailed them asking about the % of Carnauba content etc and the comparisons to other competitors. Here's their response:

"Thanks for your mail and your order of our R222 Products. In general, it is not our policy to divulge detailed formula information to the public. We can give you some guidance that may be helpful, however. First, in the chemical field, ingredient percentages are calculated by weight not by volume. When you see someone using volumetric percentages, it is to inflate something, in this case carnauba content. They buy lightweight carnauba flakes, which take up a lot of space and weigh little and then quote a high %, which by weight would not be nearly so impressive. 
The second issue is percentage of what? We clearly state on our package that our 100% carnauba content relates to the content of the raw wax phase. The others who make % of carnauba claims just throw out the % and let you wonder whether they mean % of the total product (they hope you will so interpret) or the % of the raw wax phase. Our research shows these waxes to, in fact, be blends, that is to say they contain non-carnauba wax types. We have chosen not to take part in the kind of chicanery engaged by some of these companies. By the same token, we, like most companies, do not divulge detailed formula information that would help our competitors make copies.

Finally We can also say this: Our 100% Carnauba Wax is a very raw wax intensive product.
We did not put a token amount of carnauba into the product to keep costs down, we assure you.

Kind regards,
BIS Smartparts
Customer Service"

Like said previously, hopefully the new wax will last a little longer if nothing else.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

welsh-andy said:


> tbh i used p21s for over 2yrs and still think it has one of the best shines around, just a shame they cant sort out the durability probs. i will probs switch to dodo juice have heard shine is up with ps21, but lasts like 10 times longer[/QUOTE
> I agree when I put afew coats of it on the car and ive had people looking alot at it:detailer:


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## Mike_001 (Apr 7, 2007)

chrisATR said:


> We have chosen not to take part in the kind of chicanery engaged by some of these companies.


*LOL* 
But that's exactly what they do with that "100%" thing.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Their response seems very fair. 

Now... the proof is in the pudding... 

I'm keen to know the results of this product.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Mike_001 said:


> *LOL*
> But that's exactly what they do with that "100%" thing.


Disagree - they've explained their (and the proper) use of the 100% aspect, and have enlightened us as to how some others use the same phrase to mean something less honest in the truthful sense.
Can't say fairer than that, can you?


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## chrisATR (Dec 9, 2007)

PJS said:


> Disagree - they've explained their (and the proper) use of the 100% aspect, and have enlightened us as to how some others use the same phrase to mean something less honest in the truthful sense.
> Can't say fairer than that, can you?


:thumb: I agree,

I would consider myself to be relatively new to all this compared to most people on here, and there response seems well explained to me and makes sense. Thats not to say that other more expensive products are overpriced, just that for £30, they seem to have a good value product. So, if the weathers fine over the weekend, i will do some before and after shots, and i will be comparing it to the P21s wax as i have yet to try the likes of 'dodo' and 'swissvax' etc.


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

This was taken from an R222 reseller's website:

"...R222 'Concours Look' Carnauba Wax is a rich blend of pure Brazilian No.1 yellow carnauba and beeswax..."

Now my question is, how can it be 100% wax content is carnauba, if beeswax is also used in the manufacturing process? It quite literally doesn't add up.

It has always been a legitimate but fairly misleading claim to say '100% carnauba wax content' if 100% of the wax content is carnauba... but if it contains beeswax as well, I am not sure how you can justify this '100%' claim at all. What next? 100% of the carnauba wax in our product is real carnauba?

The reply by R222 is slightly odd. They quite rightly talk about how manufacturers inflate figures by volume and how some waxes have a small amount of carnauba in just so they can claim to be 'carnauba waxes'. Then they talk of the 'raw wax phase' (or content) and don't really come clean as to whether it is or isn't 100% carnauba. If beeswax is involved, it should be an element of this raw wax phase (it would be perverse not to class beeswax as a wax!). Maybe the description on the reseller's website was wrong. Or maybe another email is needed asking whether R222 contains beeswax and if it does, how can the product claim 100% wax content as being carnauba - if that is indeed the claim.


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## Mike_001 (Apr 7, 2007)

OMG..... at least someone sharing my point of view.


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## chrisATR (Dec 9, 2007)

Dodo Factory said:


> This was taken from an R222 reseller's website:
> 
> "...R222 'Concours Look' Carnauba Wax is a rich blend of pure Brazilian No.1 yellow carnauba and beeswax..."
> 
> Now my question is, how can it be 100% wax content is carnauba, if beeswax is also used in the manufacturing process? It quite literally doesn't add up.


I think your looking at a different wax. The 'concours look' wax isn't marketed as 100% Carnauba wax whereas the new R222 '100% Carnauba wax' is marketed as 100% as it no longer contains the bees wax element.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Dodo Factory said:


> The reply by R222 is slightly odd.......
> Then they talk of the 'raw wax phase' (or content) and don't really come clean as to whether it is or isn't 100% carnauba. If beeswax is involved, it should be an element of this raw wax phase (it would be perverse not to class beeswax as a wax!).





R222 said:


> We clearly state on our package that our *100% carnauba content* relates to the content of the raw wax phase. The others who make % of carnauba claims just throw out the % and let you wonder whether they mean % of the total product (they hope you will so interpret) or the % of the raw wax phase.
> *Our research shows these waxes to*, in fact, be blends, that is to say they *contain non-carnauba wax types*. We have chosen not to take part in the kind of chicanery engaged by some of these companies.
> 
> Finally We can also say this: Our *100% Carnauba Wax is a very raw wax intensive product*.


My bolding/highlighting.
Not wishing to put words in R222's mouth, but I fail to see where the question mark arises from.
The last remark (bolded) could be interpreted ambiguously, but I think that's more a case of reading between lines that aren't there.
Of course, something as straight forward as "The only wax used is pure carnauba (not flakes), and nothing else" would clearly define their position - but in a roundabout way, this is effectively what they are saying - only using more words!


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

chrisATR said:


> I think your looking at a different wax. The 'concours look' wax isn't marketed as 100% Carnauba wax whereas the new R222 '100% Carnauba wax' is marketed as 100% as it no longer contains the bees wax element.


You're right - I was getting confused with the new packaging. My mistake.

They do make their point in a roundabout way, but I suppose it could have been put less ambiguously like PJS says.

The other sad thing about the 100% claim is that it means so little in terms of overall performance or even overall carnauba content. A product with 5g of carnauba per 100g and no other wax would be '100% carnauba' whereas a product with 10g of carnauba and 20g of beeswax per 100g would be '50% carnauba'. I think this is what they mean by saying their product is 'a very raw wax intensive product' ie it contains a lot of wax - but they aren't saying how much. It's very ambiguous. And ditching beeswax entirely may have disbenefits in terms of ease of application, beading etc. so it is always more important to focus on the overall formula rather than one element.


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

PJS said:


> "The only wax used is pure carnauba (not flakes), and nothing else" would clearly define their position


Re the flakes, this is how carnauba comes (generally). They simply mean that volumetric measurements are daft compared to ones by weight - like a cubic metre of feathers would be large by volume but not by weight. Carnauba flakes *are* pure carnauba.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Ta Dom for the clarification - thought carny came in block form for you to smelt yourselves - or well, the factory to.


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

You could get a block of carnauba but it takes longer to melt or measure out. Flakes are the most common, followed by powder.


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## hiltonig (May 3, 2007)

WELL so what, give it try and lets see the results !!!, stuff the figures its the results, now if were vintage people would be saying wow what beading action, buy it maate, if it looks good and it lasts and it represents value for money then lets see how it fairs.


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Well said. How a wax performs, or performs at the price, is all that matters.


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## chrisATR (Dec 9, 2007)

*The Results*

Well, here's the results. It arrived this morning, washed the car clayed and waxed. I must admit, I am very impressed. The difference between this wax and the the p21s is definatley noticeable. Its a little harder to get on the applicator pad, but just as easy to buff and remove. Not sure what it will be like on other colours, but i am sure people will agree it looks awesome on reds. Photo's could be better and the weathers a bit poor.


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## p1tse (Feb 4, 2007)

chrisATR, would you recommend it over the normal p21s/r222?


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

chrisATR said:


> Well, here's the results. It arrived this morning, washed the car clayed and waxed. I must admit, I am very impressed. The difference between this wax and the the p21s is definatley noticeable. Its a little harder to get on the applicator pad, but just as easy to buff and remove. Not sure what it will be like on other colours, but i am sure people will agree it looks awesome on reds. Photo's could be better and the weathers a bit poor.


You are correct, the pics don't serve justice, I have some of this and it is a great wax, It was standing up very well after 6 weeks with high PH wash solution, and only come off when I decided to apply some artemis wax seal which is still going strong :thumb:


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## blucpe (Jun 21, 2007)

i read all the posts and it was informative and lengthy and the results are great whether the wax is 100000% or 3% it looks great. hope the durabilty is as good, keep us posted.


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## p1tse (Feb 4, 2007)

should i just keep to my liked and trusted p21s (i have no issues with it) and it's cheaper


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## christian900se (Nov 10, 2009)

I have been using P21s 100% for about a year and a half and love it. It definately trades off some wetness and depth for increased reflectivity and leaves the paint very bright. The best word to describe it is "crisp."

It actually had decent durability of about 5-6 weeks depending on conditions, and applies and removes easily. Great product in my opinion, and is really overlooked I feel.


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

I know p21s waxes very well , the old p21s wax bring wetter , glossier shine but the durability is lack , its better to apply 3 coats .
The new p21s 100% wax bring warmer deeper shine and last longer .


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## cargainz (Jul 25, 2016)

This is an old post I know but does anyone have any independent lab tests of the different brands and their % nuba content? 

Its laughable how people get butthurt because their fav brand's claims has been questioned. :lol:


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## cossiecol (Jun 29, 2014)

After 6 years this thread has run its course.


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