# Paint types - hard, soft etc...



## simonjj (Sep 25, 2010)

Is the any kind of online resource giving information of paint types by vehicle/manufacturer - hard, soft, clear coat, thickness etc...?
Thanks
Simon


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## Dipesh (Oct 12, 2007)

It's a bad thing to presume a car has hard or soft paint. 

You should take it on a case by case basis and monitor removal rates with a PTG, that way you will know if the paint is hard or soft.


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## Serious (Mar 19, 2008)

You can get large variances in the hardness of paint from one single manufacturer depending on the car... Completely regardless of the paintwork you are facing, you should always start with a light abrasive and work up to ascertain what combo will work best on the particular car.
Audi: Medium to Hard
BMW: Hard
Mercedes: Hard
Seat: Medium
Honda (new): Soft to Very Soft TO VERY VERY SOFT : )
Mazda (new): Soft
Jaguar: Medium
Vauxhall: Soft to Soft Medium
Ferrari (hand): Medium to Medium Hard
Porsche: Medium
VW: Medium to Medium Hard
Volvo: Medium Hard
Toyota: Soft
Lotus: Medium Hard
Renault: Soft to Hard 
Peugeot: Medium
Citroen: Medium Soft to Medium
Alfa: Soft to Very Soft
Fiat: Soft to Very Soft
Ford: Medium

There can be huge variations even on the same model. So take this is a very rough guide only.


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## Iceman08 (Oct 18, 2009)

There is a chart on the polished bliss website which will be a guide for you. http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/pdfs/painthardness.pdf


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## simonjj (Sep 25, 2010)

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.


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## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

*Hard / Soft Clear Coats*

Compiling a chart that lists the consistency of automotive paint can only at best be a rough guide, as this would necessitate listing by; manufacturer, OEM assembly plant, model year, colour, new or aged, paint specification, and etc. To ascertain paint hardness requires extensive experience working on a wide range of vehicles to have a point of reference.

The best way to detail paint, wither it is hard or soft ; is by using the least aggressive pad / polish combination followed, if necessary by an incrementally more aggressive approach until you find what works.

*Test Area*

Select a 'typical' 18 x 18 - inch area - (one that represents the type of defects that you want to remove) and starting with the least abrasive polish and / pad combination and then proceed until the defects are removed. This is the polish / pad combination you'll need to use. Selecting the correct pad / polish combination for the vehicles paint / defects can take just as long as the paint correction process

•	Each vehicle assembly plant uses different clear coat paint from one of three major paint suppliers; PPG, DuPont, and BASF products and each of these companies have a range of several differing paints 
•	Most vehicle manufacturers will issue a painting specification that denotes amongst other things; a paint to hardener ratio, dependent upon quality control this spec may or may not be strictly adhered to
•	Some vehicle manufacturers have more than one plant assembling the same model of a vehicle; each plant will often use a different supplier for the clear coat paints. 
•	Each assembly plant may elect to use one of several OEM paints from PPG, DuPont or BASF clear coat product lines.

There are other factors that will have an effect; the composition of the clear coat used (single, duel component, or powder) this generally reflects the trade off the OEM is prepared to accept between scratch resistance and gloss level considered acceptable, oven drying time and its temperature, the relevant age (i.e. how long ago was the paint applied) spot panel repairs (refinish) that are carried out either at the assembly plant or the rail head or port of entry. Soft paint could also be caused if it was polished before the paint had time to fully cure

This is also true of imports assembled in the US; usually one paint supplier is approved for all plants; however each plant may modify the application/bake process in order to meet production demand. This may also affect which has the harder or softer clear.

•	Hard paint - paint requires a more aggressive abrasive polish and takes more time to correct
•	Soft paint- responds to abrasives more readily and makes polishing easier, but it's easier to induce surface marring. 
•	Water-based paint is generally more porous and softer
•	Solvent-based clear coat paint is usually harder than a water-based paint and not as porous
•	As always generalizing carries a degree of risk as a panel(s) may have been re-painted
•	Before commencing polishing do a test panel on the car, once you have achieved the desired results with your selected polish / pad combination proceed

Paint is graded by its hardness or density by a Durometer; one of several measures of the hardness of a material. Like many other hardness tests, it measures the depth of an indentation in the material created by a given force. Clear coats can be made with harder or softer densities and that will also determine its scratch resistance.


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

Serious said:


> You can get large variances in the hardness of paint from one single manufacturer depending on the car... Completely regardless of the paintwork you are facing, you should always start with a light abrasive and work up to ascertain what combo will work best on the particular car.
> Audi: Medium to Hard
> BMW: Hard
> Mercedes: Hard
> ...


I kinda disagree with the above list, and also the one on PB's site.... I would put seat in with the same group as VW and Audi. Maybe even skoda (only done 1 skoda).... All of the Ibizas I've done have been rather hard and required agressive pads/polish (typically speaking, Menz Compound Pad and Mens 3.02). Saying that though, they are only "guides", and you wont truly know until your try. You could have 2 same cars and be different. Hell, 2 panels on the same car could be different lol


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## SystemClenz (Oct 31, 2008)

Raising an old thread here...... But has anyone got a more accurate "guide"?? 

Cheers


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## Foxx (Jul 5, 2011)

MattWSM said:


> Raising an old thread here...... But has anyone got a more accurate "guide"??
> 
> Cheers


You'll be lucky to find an accurate one as manufacturers change the paint processes more often that you think, and cure times and clear coat applications can vary between cars (and can actually vary on a single car). Plus, sometimes you can find older models have totally different paint makeups, so an accurate list would be endless.

Don't forget, of course, that if the previous owner of a car has trashed it and taken it to the local Cut&Shut for a respray, then there is no way to know what type of surface you are dealing with (and the chances that you know the true history of a second hand vehicle are slim to none).

So, the rough general guide above is OK, more or less, but as Serious suggested, unless you know for sure what paint is on a car, there is no harm is starting on a medium cut and working the cut up to stronger if you need to. Better to be slow and sure than turn someone's car into a DeLorean :lol:

That's with the exception of Japanese cars, of course, which as we all know are painted with highlighter pens, and the paint is made of air, flower petals, sunny days, baby's smiles and unicorn sneezes. In this case, start with MINIMAL cut and a slow speed and work your way up (in many cases, a finishing polish like #205 or S40 on a DA at slow speed will be all you need)


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

I think there can only be generalizations. For example, my honda accord _should_ have soft paint, but infact it is harder than my previous 1991 BMW 316i which was quite soft, but to confuse it again, my friends 1997 BMW 328i (same model, E36) is extremely hard. Manufacturers are always changing their paints and don't forget different factories will use different paint (e.g honda may be soft from a Japanese factory, but harder from the UK) :thumb:


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