# from valeting to detailing.....



## RVS (Oct 25, 2012)

At what point do you class yourself as a Detailer?


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

When you buy a wheel brush that isn't a rough one lol. I mean one of those round paint brush ones that helps you get in nooks and crannies lol. 

When you polish and wax could be one and not buy some sort of all in one triple wax and claim you wax it every week lol. 

A real detailer cleans the arches, patrol caps, badges and grills with apc etc.


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## LukeWS (Sep 9, 2012)

Subscribed to this  also interested in where people think they differ


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## gargreen7 (Apr 12, 2009)

When you take pride in your finished product.


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

Also, when you start commenting n cars with swirls and saying to your other half how much you want to correct them. When the other half can spot swirls on other cars because of your constant moans.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

gargreen7 said:


> When you take pride in your finished product.


Sorry cannot agree with that, many a valeter takes pride in his work, please tell me you aren't an elitist that looks down on valeters.


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

I always saw the difference as being able to correct paint to a high standard.


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## Hasan1 (Jul 1, 2011)

In my eye valeting is cleaning a car to make it look clean and detailing a car is just that all in the detail making sure the car is clean an tidy in every way. Ie making sure clean round light badges all the areas that you could not do with a MIT only then after all that being able to correct paint work


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## LukeWS (Sep 9, 2012)

I think the paint correction ad bringing a old worn out looking car back to life is a skill in detailing,

also don't quote me on this as I'm not experienced in either trade but valeting could be like a safe wash etc where as a detail is a safe decontamination wash with a finished product that protects the car for some time after?


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

RVS said:


> At what point do you class yourself as a Detailer?


1-When you spend days on it
2-you charge alot more


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

RVS said:


> could that not then class as an hungout/overpriced valet. Normally done by people who like to take the **** and rip folks off lol


yeah but word of mouth will kill them off:thumb:


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

A valeter uses a brush to wash your car with a bucket of water which he has used on 10 other cars and a leather to dry the wheels and body, finished with a cheap liquid wax and a spit shine on the wheels 

A detailer uses a cloud and water from the pool of eternal youth then dried using the breath of angels, Then the car is waxed using the ear wax from a unicorns ears


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## LukeWS (Sep 9, 2012)

kempe said:


> A detailer uses a cloud and water from the pool of eternal youth then dried using the breath of angels, Then the car is waxed using the ear wax from a unicorns ears


haha if i ever set up as a detailer that would be my description of work done!


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## LukeWS (Sep 9, 2012)

RVS said:


> Be careful then Luke,you may have a few visits off the RSPCA!


Lmao more then likely, ill just tell them the unicorns like having their ears cleared of wax


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

LukeWS said:


> haha if i ever set up as a detailer that would be my description of work done!


I have dibs on it first lol


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## VenomUK (Oct 13, 2011)

When you focus on the exterior and neglect the interior lol


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## WhenIwake (Nov 10, 2012)

VenomUK said:


> When you focus on the exterior and neglect the interior lol


prepare for onslaught....


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## VenomUK (Oct 13, 2011)

WhenIwake said:


> prepare for onslaught....


Its ok, my car do what I like :wave: Inside of the car dose my head in! I do all the hard work outside and then down to the local hand car wash and pay them a few quid to do the inside


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## Farquhar (May 15, 2007)

...for me it's the ability to correct paintwork.

I do everything mentioned so far, 2BM, door/boot shuts with APC, arches, alloy insides, around badges, interior, stripes on the mats, engine bays, de-grease tyres, decent tyre dressing, glass inside and out etc etc BUT only consider myself a 'valeter' as I only apply polish and wax by hand.

:detailer:

Only if I ever have the balls (or the money) to get a machine and lights to spot swirls and do 50/50's etc would I then consider myself having taken the final step towards being a 'detailer'

:buffer:


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## scratcher (Jul 20, 2010)

When you decide if you're English or American :lol:

But I'm with with Russ, when you can polish to perfection with a safe and controlled technique. And pay attention to every little detail.


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## ConorF (Oct 3, 2012)

Either way, you clean cars, 
A detailer can be a valeter but a valeter can't be a detailer!


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Those that have or are a valeter will understand the transition. Those that never came from said background can never truly 100% understand as there understanding is from forums imo.

Either of the said variants detailer v valeter both should take pride in there work but ive seen poor works from either also. The only differing thing from valeting to detailing is the decontamination and paint correction along with product understanding and full on know how of the said job that they do. Someone switched on enough seldom rarely would come on open forum for instance and ask for help when they are trading as a professional service provider charging X amount of ££'S when they have clearly pointed out they know not everything of the said trade they do.

In either profession, passion, dedication, commitment and good attitude go a long way not to mention a good plentiful number of years experience.

There will always be a divide but saying a valeter washes a car with brushes and a detailer wraps the car up in cotton wool doesnt best describe the difference, mearly describes a visual impact from local car washes rather than ture professional service providers.


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

IMO the name says it all. Detailers are the natural progression for vatelors who then start looking at the smaller details and getting them sorted be that small bits of dirt in the obscure places to sorting marks in the paintworkl.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Mayabe im a little long in the tooth but way I deal with things is stepping back, assessing and taking on the issue at the time through understanding the issue inside out rather than jumping straight in asking anyone. Forums are for advises yes, not necessarily giving away ever hint, tip and trick to others that are trading yet arent savvy enough for that trade just yet. Start small and work upwards rather than start big and fall flat on your ringer:thumb:


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

WhenIwake said:


> prepare for onslaught....


Glad I'm not the only one that can't be **** with the interior lol daft really as that's the bit your in !


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## svended (Oct 7, 2011)

I think we can all agree it's in the level of detail, hence the name. 
As pointed out, going from doing your own car to detailing is a little different from starting as a 'sponge monkey', to valeter to detailer as a progression. 
I admit when I see what some valeters do for the amount they charge a get the hump being called a valeter (granted not as much now as I used to) but then again I'm only a hobby-detailer so I'm neither really. 
If people are prepared to pay 'x' amount for a service and that person is happy and goes back, well fair play to them. The customer is happy at the end of the day which is the main thing.


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

Beau Technique said:


> Those that have or are a valeter will understand the transition. Those that never came from said background can never truly 100% understand as there understanding is from forums imo.
> 
> Either of the said variants detailer v valeter both should take pride in there work but ive seen poor works from either also. The only differing thing from valeting to detailing is the decontamination and paint correction along with product understanding and full on know how of the said job that they do. Someone switched on enough seldom rarely would come on open forum for instance and ask for help when they are trading as a professional service provider charging X amount of ££'S when they have clearly pointed out they know not everything of the said trade they do.
> 
> ...


I was joking about the whole thing it wasnt meant to be taken as gospel


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

No drama. :thumb:

Just seems that views on folks that clean cars for a living are either giving it large with the gritty sponge and hydra blades or flip side are on bended knee with a magnifying glass and cotton bud. Does make me chuckle :lol:


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## EVL (Dec 31, 2010)

My company offers a valeting service. However, depending on what the customer requests, we also offer full paint correction.
Even our normal valets have all door shuts, badges etc cleaned.
Should I say we're detailers now? 

To me, it's just a label. 
I think... :detailer:


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## VenomUK (Oct 13, 2011)

craigeh123 said:


> Glad I'm not the only one that can't be **** with the interior lol daft really as that's the bit your in !


I think that's why though. We learn to live with that and its only you who see the inside where as everyone else sees the outside.


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## Dazzawest (Mar 4, 2012)

Rob_Quads said:


> IMO the name says it all. Detailers are the natural progression for vatelors who then start looking at the smaller details and getting them sorted be that small bits of dirt in the obscure places to sorting marks in the paintworkl.


this would be my interpretation, detailers concerntrate on finer details and little things that maybe others wouldnt consider a issue, i.e swirls and dirty wheel arches


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## craigblues (Jul 24, 2011)

Brilliant thread.


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## cypukas (Aug 24, 2012)

When you stop grinding a dirt into the paint and scratch it, when you start taking care about a job you do...


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Imo a valeter bull****s the car using cheap products to make the car look the best they can in as little amount of time and effort as possible. A detailer does the job properly so that it stays looking good looked after


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## Artstu (Jun 24, 2011)

Some very anti valeter comments coming here.

Hmm how about a detailer pays way over the odds for a product that has a food or drink related name


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## dave-g (Nov 14, 2009)

i have respect for both trades, and both have different outlooks o things, but imo opinion a valeter tends to need to do things quickly in order to fulfil tasks whereas a detailer has more precise tasks.

after spending time with a local valeter its shocking how he treated cars, machine polishing no measuring of paint, hard cut hard pad straight in. scary, but thats what he was prepared to do.

Each to there own on this.


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## srod (Dec 31, 2010)

msb said:


> Imo a valeter bull****s the car using cheap products to make the car look the best they can in as little amount of time and effort as possible. A detailer does the job properly so that it stays looking good looked after


Bugger - hit the thanks button by mistake again!

I neither use cheap products or rush a job and I take as much pride in my work as any self proclaimed detailer. Whether what I do is valeting or detailing means nothing to me, or my customers for that matter, the majority of whom I would guess would not even recognise the term 'detailing'.

I advertise as a valeter and spend as much time as is required on any one car/job. This would typically be up to 5 hours, but has stretched across 2 days on occasion. Products I use : Autoglym, Autosmart, Nielsen, Menzerna, Chemical Guys, Prima, Valet-Pro, Car-Pro,... We all have our favourites, but these are certainly not the cheapest. 

Sure many customers are after a very quick turnaround and don't care a great deal about the longevity of any protection applied to their car etc, but in these cases I do always make it very clear that this will mean that I cannot be as thorough as I would otherwise like to be. If they are happy with this then I will proceed. Other customers are much more discerning, however, and are happy to allow as much time as needed for me to really turn their vehicle around.

So, valeting, detailing... what's the big deal? Either way you will find those who work to very high standards, and those who do not, but I don't think anyone can seriously claim that all of the poor practitioners belong to either one category or the other.


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## furby-123 (Dec 3, 2011)

i think the difference is paint correction, im a valeter and i clean shuts, gaps crevices etc as part of a valet, maybe im an obsessed valeter


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Wow knew this would be fun, but for those that has had the privilege to see Cortina Jim's mk1 at close will be I no dought what can be archived with basic products and dedication, as for when you become a Detailer, every one will be different and as they say practice and experience and product knowledge will be key and being able to tackle any paint surface with safety and consideration. As other know there are plenty of people that assume they are pro Detailers and some just good photographers, that's the way it is, they say the camera never lie's well we may all dream, have to say some fantastic guy's on here with great knowledge though


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## Farquhar (May 15, 2007)

msb said:


> Imo a valeter bull****s the car using cheap products to make the car look the best they can in as little amount of time and effort as possible. A detailer does the job properly so that it stays looking good looked after


I couldn't disagree more.

You clearly have no idea...


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

msb said:


> Imo a valeter bull****s the car using cheap products to make the car look the best they can in as little amount of time and effort as possible. A detailer does the job properly so that it stays looking good looked after


So the cheaper the product the worse the job?
Sorry fella but that is quite an uneducated ethos on valeting or detailing imo. Ive used products that have cost £20 for 500ml and had 5ltr trade products far surpass them at the same cost so value of material doesnt come in the equation ( not all the time anyway ) Sure we could all have the most top of the A game products and LSP's equating to £1000 + but does that make the job any better..... No way pedro. A huge majority of teh job is by the driver behind the wheel. Anyone can by expensive products, not everyone can understand and use them to there best advantage and maximum potential.



Derekh929 said:


> Wow knew this would be fun, but for those that has had the privilege to see Cortina Jim's mk1 at close will be I no dought what can be archived with basic products and dedication, as for when you become a Detailer, every one will be different and as they say practice and experience and product knowledge will be key and being able to tackle any paint surface with safety and consideration. As other know there are plenty of people that assume they are pro Detailers and some just good photographers, that's the way it is, they say the camera never lie's well we may all dream, have to say some fantastic guy's on here with great knowledge though


Certainly are some great guys in the trade period but also some great photographers. Camera cant hide things in direct sunlight but certainly can with the correct angles of lighting. That said, the better of photographer can catch that all important perfect shot given the right angle. Couldnt agree more with regards to carrying oyt works and treating any car with a dignified and considerate approach rather than the fastest for timely full effect. Doing the job right comes with doing it over how ever long it takes though I think many can vouch for having budgets and timelines to consider at times of course.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

I may be wrong, may not be but my opinion isn't going to change most valeters are working on as quick a turnaround as possible and generally its a quick tarting up, detailing simply isn't, if its just a clean car you want valeting is fine,same could be said for using the local polish car wash yeah its clean but hardly in the same league as detailed, if i've caused offence that wasn't my intention but quite honestly valeting and detailing are a world apart, something most on here have been saying for certainly as long as i've been on here, didn't realise one could be slated so much for basically stating what been put across to them since their interest in detailing started:wall:


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Contrary to what is typed or said, its still a placebo effect most feel and see through forum and car club world when they have no understanding of the trade as they have never been in it to understand said trade. What I am trying to convey is the truth rather than assumption from seeing what is typed by others or taking the work that Stavros does at the local ten bob car wash as what is valeting which clearly it isn't.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

I agree they are all different things and all have their place, many people still are happy to wash their car with a sponge and some washing up liquid, and yes technically its a clean car, but the more interested you become in having your car looking the best it can thats obviously not good enough, its really horses for courses. Many people don't share a passion for their cars they are just a means from getting from a to b, for the genuine car lover thats not so, we all vary and all want different things.
Oh and you are right there are good and bad in all be it car washers,valeters or detailers, thats where word of mouth and an exellent reputation comes in


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

So if I'm valeting a car using some halfauds own brand products, but using their brushes to clean badges, shuts, grilles etc etc, then I'm using a silverline rotary polisher as part of my valet to polish and refine the paintwork to a near perfect finish, then using a tornador throughout the interior after removing the seats, removing lights and bumpers for access with my Costco toolkit, does this make me a detailer? No, it makes me a valeter cleaning in detail and depth with tools that work for me, because next week ive got the office block down the road to do some basic washes on and try and fit in 15 cars in 4 hours. The end result is, that the first vehicle will be cleaned to such a further extend than the ones at the office block. One costs hundreds, one costs sub ten pounds, they're both valeting.


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## shaunmods (Dec 2, 2010)

For me one of the main differences I see is product choice. For valeting in my opinion it is really important not to get drawn into the expensive 'cool' brand products. I feel that for valeting it is far better to find decent products that have been tried and tested that you know work well for you so that you can then buy in bulk to help save both time and money. 

However, saying that yes there are some products which do cross over between valeting and detailing but generally for detailing this is where individually selected products which are less likely to be bulk bought come into play. People paying extra for detailing services want to see their cars pampered , knowing that the big named products will be being used which is what they want to see. 

Obviously there's a lot more differences that just this but just a few thoughts


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

When you stop washing cars with a brush and truck wash?

Then tour ready to begin becoming a detailer :thumb:


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Azonto said:


> So if I'm valeting a car using some halfauds own brand products, but using their brushes to clean badges, shuts, grilles etc etc, then I'm using a silverline rotary polisher as part of my valet to polish and refine the paintwork to a near perfect finish, then using a tornador throughout the interior after removing the seats, removing lights and bumpers for access with my Costco toolkit, does this make me a detailer? No, it makes me a valeter cleaning in detail and depth with tools that work for me, because next week ive got the office block down the road to do some basic washes on and try and fit in 15 cars in 4 hours. The end result is, that the first vehicle will be cleaned to such a further extend than the ones at the office block. One costs hundreds, one costs sub ten pounds, they're both valeting.


I think most would regard the latter part of your statement as valeting, yes you may only class the other as valeting but most, NOT all valeters woud not go to the extremes of removing seats,lights and bumpers etc in their daily role, fine if the customer asks for more but i doubt most asking for a valet would even dream of you going to those lengths when cleaning their car
Someone i know as a valeter, as well as a detailer one of which is on here, not going to name, was under the impression most punters were happy with a clean car, as long as they saw that, dressed tyres and it smelled nice inside that was all they were bothered about


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

I agree that in most cases, the majority of the general public would be happy to use a valeter for exactly this service, to clean their car, dress the tyres and make it smell nice however,

If Mr Bloggs came along with his M3 and wanted a valet to the extent that the seats were removed and the valeter from the first instance was competent enough to carry out the work, he would still be a valeter no?


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

If your selling yourself as a valeter, you would obviously still class yourself as a valeter, but surely the more in depth the work gets it got to be verging more into what most would class as detailing! In this day and age in what must be a difficult market, obviously the more services you can offer the customer the better:thumb:


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

So are you saying the difference between a valeter and a detailer is marketing?


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

To a degree surely it must be. Both clean cars but to different levels depending on the customers requirements


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

There we go then, we have a valeter, that when required can clean a car in detail and a detailer, that when required can offer a service wash. Both result in what the customer has asked for.

Chances are the valeter will get more service washes and less removing of seats and the detailer will get the opposite because of the audience they have marketed themselves to. 

To conclude, I don't think there is a point where a valeter becomes a detailer (OP) unless they change the audience in which they wish to market to.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Detailers do service/maintenence washes, plenty offer that service, as said before, in todays current market flexability has to be key to a sucessful business


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

I totally agree with the flexibility thing and spreading services, I was just referring to the original question posted of when a valeter becomes a detailer.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Fair enough, i'd say when they can offer all the services that the professional detailers offer and carry them out to a high standard i suppose, but if you have a good sucesssful business valeting why would you ignore that surely you expand and offer the extra detailing services for the potential customers willing to pay for it, as well i think when it comes to most professions in the motor trade doing a good job,good recommendations and a exellent reputation go a long way


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## srod (Dec 31, 2010)

Turned into quite an interesting topic for sure. 

In my case it is certainly true that I do find myself paying more and more attention to the finer details when valeting a car. A lot of my work is at a trader who caters exclusively for 'higher' end cars and with these I will get through 2 vehicles a day with no pressure to cut corners in the quest of a higher turnaround. Over the last few months this has led me to cleaning parts of cars I would not normally consider; quite literally poking into every nook and cranny with a multitude of brushes and other implements. Heck when would I ever have considered claying wheels previous to this or taking the time to wet-and-dry panels etc?

This of course spills over into my private work and, like Azonto, have removed seats on occasion; but all in the name of valeting (as opposed to detailing).

I guess we could say that my general valeting 'routines' have seen quite some 'feature-creep' without me actually realising. Still consider myself a valeter mind because, as has been said previously, that is how I have always marketed myself. Hell, when all is said and done, I love working on interiors; removing stains and the like, because customers are often over the moon when they have seen I have removed stains and the like which they could not shift.

Would not consider myself the 'complete article' by any means mind since, for example, my machine polishing skills are pretty amateurish right now and so I am very careful when offering such services.

Experience and marketing... seems to sum it up nicely for me.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Cool we got there eventually, sorry if first post was a bit harsh
As said i'm not knocking what anyones doing, some people want a clean car, some want a bit more:thumb: good luck to anyone who can make it in such a competative field:wave:


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

msb said:


> Cool we got there eventually, sorry if first post was a bit harsh
> As said i'm not knocking what anyones doing, some people want a clean car, some want a bit more:thumb: good luck to anyone who can make it in such a competative field:wave:


Nothing wrong with a bit of healthy debate and personal opinion


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## paulbraniff77 (Jul 17, 2012)

Guitarjon said:


> When you buy a wheel brush that isn't a rough one lol. I mean one of those round paint brush ones that helps you get in nooks and crannies lol.
> 
> When you polish and wax could be one and not buy some sort of all in one triple wax and claim you wax it every week lol.
> 
> A real detailer cleans the arches, patrol caps, badges and grills with apc etc.


i am valeter and i do all of the above not a fair comment i think a valeter is a man thats job dictates that a certain volume of work has to be completed in a day to high standard aswell! we unfortunatly dont have the luxury of spending two days on one vehicle so of course there would be a diference in the overal finish but 9 out of 10 custumers would not know the difference or perhaps even care i think its down to the client what they want but at the end of the day when you are getting £17.50 per used car there is only so much you can do because my bank would not be long taking my house of me if i spent as long per car as i would like this is the car trade i see a valet as a process and the next process would be a full detail and i mainly use poorboys autoglym and dodo products on cars i prep when it comes to my own cars i have more time to spend (rant over)  me off when people talk  about other peoples work yes there may be some plying there trade as a valeter and they dont give a  but not all valeters are the same rant def over now:lol:


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## paulbraniff77 (Jul 17, 2012)

Hasan1 said:


> In my eye valeting is cleaning a car to make it look clean and detailing a car is just that all in the detail making sure the car is clean an tidy in every way. Ie making sure clean round light badges all the areas that you could not do with a MIT only then after all that being able to correct paint work


nah plenty of valeters can do above and im one of them


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## paulbraniff77 (Jul 17, 2012)

reading this thread it seems like a battle of the classes in a way etc working class v upper class maybe the difference is snobery alot of comments on this forum are anti valeting quite tradgic really


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## steve1975 (Oct 14, 2012)

how many 'detailers' on here progressed from 'valeting' themselves?


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

I did and not afraid to say it:thumb:
Still am a valeter in my eyes just an extremely thorough one that understands a lot more with regards to material, tools and how best to gain best from a vehicle with that said understanding.


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## Daveskater (Jan 13, 2012)

In my eyes a valeter cleans cars, a detailer restores it to as close to as-new condition as possible. Obviously that would usually involve machine polishing and leaving no stone unturned.

Granted, there are some valeters that will give the car a 'mop' with a rotary and some compound and usually cover it in buffer trails. A detailer would ensure that the finish was as perfect as possible.

Professionally I consider myself a valeter, but also a hobbyist detailer as I'm building up product knowledge and have done some machine polishing on the family cars.


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

It doesn't matter what you class yourself as. It's the quality and depth of your work that determines it.


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## Kelly @ KDS (Aug 4, 2008)

At KDS

we carry out valets and details , of course we also do soo much more but not fir this topic.

So valet packages from my website

http://www.kdskeltec.co.uk/price-menu/valeting-packages

the detailing protection packages from my website

http://www.kdskeltec.co.uk/price-menu/protection-detail-packages

and the detailing "correction" packages from my website

http://www.kdskeltec.co.uk/price-menu/paint-correction-packages

so we do valets , we do protection packages (which are part valeting part detailing) and we do just detailing.

Same people and same products used for all the KDS packages.

so whats the difference and does it matter???

i can see the only difference is TIME and time is money simple as that.

our valets have interior clean and so do our detailing packages,

just to place a different angle on things.

you can call yourself what you want , in the end its not going to keep in in business with loads of work , your workmanship will.

We repair restore and paint more cars now than detail "only" but dont have a sign or company name that says we do just that.

I think the only difference is the customer that you will attracted either being a valeter or detailer can be and will be completely different types of people after completely different levels and standards.

Valeting is far easier to make easier money than detailing , but you need far more valeting work to turn over the same per week as detailing,

But detailing is far hard to find the customers willing to pay where are there is a far larger market and people willing to pay for valeting.

Mixing the 2 together has been the biggest challange

Kelly


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## Kiashuma (May 4, 2011)

I would say a detailer is someone who has the knowledge to correct paint with rotary or day, using the correct prep, clay, tardis, ironx etc.

As i cannot correct paint yet i am not up to this level.


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## Frew (Aug 15, 2012)

Auto Detailer (US)
Car Valeter (UK)

As far as i am concerened they are one and the same thing. They will spend as little time or as much time as required to get the desired results within the customers budget. If they are good and develop their knowledge they may get better clients and cars and develop into a higher end business. Geographical location will have an effect on this also i would expect. If they are on that route then marketing will play a large role in the development of the type of work they carry out. Changing a name from ........ Valeting to ...... Detailing gives an instant upgrade in the care and attension the clients cars will get by the nature of the word Detail. The same goes for calling themself a Valeter or Detailer. Customer perception and the placebo effect are at work in this industry as much as any other.

Personally I would choose to use someone on the work they produce and not what they call themselves or the products they use. 

I come from a completely different industry but the same rules apply in a way to my industry and many industries all over the world. 

:thumb:


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## ConorF (Oct 3, 2012)

Kelly @ KDS said:


> At KDS
> 
> we carry out valets and details , of course we also do soo much more but not fir this topic.
> 
> ...


Just read all your packages, i understand the time and effort put in but I couldnt justify paying £4000 for a wet sand, before a repaint! Just my honest opinion.


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## ConorF (Oct 3, 2012)

msb said:


> Imo a valeter bull****s the car using cheap products to make the car look the best they can in as little amount of time and effort as possible. A detailer does the job properly so that it stays looking good looked after


You say a valeter bull****s their way, people still pay them and return for their service. I clean cars, i dont calss my service as a valet or detail. I only do it for family and friends, not a business. If a friend cares about their car, ill use the 2BM, machine polish etc etc, if they dont, sponge and a bucket with some shampoo, hand polish and quick vacuum.

And theres plenty of people out there who call themselves detailers, when their not. Its like the new 'in' thing.


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## polt (Oct 18, 2011)

ConorF said:


> Just read all your packages, i understand the time and effort put in but I couldnt justify paying £4000 for a wet sand, before a repaint! Just my honest opinion.


yeah I agree, but only because I don't own a rare or high value car. The main thing Kelly does have is a package to suit all ends of the market from basic motors right through to supercars, that package would suit a high value car obviously. Also Kelly and his team have a reputation which is second to none in the uk and you know when you pick your motor up it's going to be better than when it left factory.

The only reason he has got to the stage of doing the elite cars is due to hard graft and learning, To me there is no difference it's about using knowledge and learning of how best to deal with a range of problems and situations and being able to use the tools available to rectify. Detailer is just another fancy word for a valeting.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Spot on post by Kelly.

The more competent can achieve standards with lesser known or less costly materials so again, can detailing be determined purely on using costly products?

Or is it determined on standards of workmanship and lengthy time durations used to achieve said standards?

Maybe a bit of both but will go with the latter more so imo.


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

ConorF said:


> Just read all your packages, i understand the time and effort put in but I couldnt justify paying £4000 for a wet sand, before a repaint! Just my honest opinion.


yes but at 200 hours thats lots of wages:thumb:
And looking at some of cars he does i would imagine its peanuts to some of his clients.That and he can do many things alot of the others cant.
And it's not one of these bull**** marketing pitches he does like paul dolton does at 20 grand details yeah right


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## polt (Oct 18, 2011)

chrisc said:


> yes but at 200 hours thats lots of wages:thumb:
> And looking at some of cars he does i would imagine its peanuts to some of his clients.That and he can do many things alot of the others cant.
> And it's not one of these bull**** marketing pitches he does like paul dolton does at 20 grand details yeah right


true works out at £20 an hour:doublesho, and TBH that's a hell of a lot less than I thought Kelly and his team would charge!


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## Adrian Convery (May 27, 2010)

Machine polishing is when it goes to detailing IMO


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

I think I'm with Russ from Midlands car care here.

I think Valeters will do all the pre wash stages and maybe some lsp etc But nothing to say they can't do it to the standard that detailers do.

Detailing gets down to the detail of the paintwork, imperfections and RDS and holograms etc etc and correcting them.


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

I think Kelly's point on time is key too. I often spend more time on a car to achieve a little more than what had essentially been paid for as I know x amount if time will give x% improvement in defect removal or finish. I'm probably guilty of doing too much in an enhancement but I enjoy machining so don't mind too much but probably need to break my services down into three grades of correction rather than two. 

I'd imagine most valeters would like more time to do more and I'm sure most are capable of doing so too, but if a customer is paying £30 rather than £300 there will naturally be a difference in outcome. The problem is the brush wielding cowboys who are giving the trade a poor image. There are some awesome valeters near me who are amazing at what they do. Any snobbery towards the trade is massively unfair. We do £20 maintenance washes too at our premises. It's not all about £400+ correction jobs.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

MidlandsCarCare said:


> I think Kelly's point on time is key too. I often spend more time on a car to achieve a little more than what had essentially been paid for as I know x amount if time will give x% improvement in defect removal or finish. I'm probably guilty of doing too much in an enhancement but I enjoy machining so don't mind too much but probably need to break my services down into three grades of correction rather than two.
> 
> I'd imagine most valeters would like more time to do more and I'm sure most are capable of doing so too, but if a customer is paying £30 rather than £300 there will naturally be a difference in outcome. The problem is the brush wielding cowboys who are giving the trade a poor image. There are some awesome valeters near me who are amazing at what they do. Any snobbery towards the trade is massively unfair. We do £20 maintenance washes too at our premises. It's not all about £400+ correction jobs.


Credit due. There is some sense written here. A lot of issue within this trade is time being predetermined by cost limitations on the clients part. Not all have a budget for financial statistics with 3 figures ergo where valeting fits the criteria.


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## Kelly @ KDS (Aug 4, 2008)

ConorF said:


> Just read all your packages, i understand the time and effort put in but I couldnt justify paying £4000 for a wet sand, before a repaint! Just my honest opinion.


I think you got the packages and KDS customers a bit confused.

Someone with a new M3 or M5 thats just paid 55k upwards and really cant put up with the horrid orange peel on his new purchase.

has tried many avenues to sort the problem out within the brand and got no where.

He has 2 options

1) Repaint the car and then STILL have to get the car wet sanded afterwards, this would then de-value the car as asking the questions when resale time to why has it been painted? and would make the warranty void.

2) Or wet sand the original paint finish NOT effecting the paint warranty or the resale , in fact possible that it raises the price or speeds up the sale of said car.

option 1 done at a BMW dealership would be near 20k to remove all trims windows etc to keep the warranty , BUT would still need a detailer to finish car properly.

option 2 costs 4k

I think its a really simple choice and great value , the term "great value" as i have been told be many happy wet sanded new car owners.

There would not be the price menu on my site and the time i took to write it IF there was not a custom for it and bookings.

some of these customers can spend thousands in one night just having a meal and then a west end show.

I got a customer that thinks nothing of spending a couple of thousand on a bottle of plonk as he thinks its great value.

In fact the same customer dropped off another second hand car purchase and only came in for an oil change as its got great history and low mileage and yet another car to his growing collection.

The car is now in for full strip down and repaint , interior leather colour , dent removal , light surface rust removal , brake refurb , wheel refurb and detail, all this from the fact we offer the services and understands what is "great value".

kelly


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## Kelly @ KDS (Aug 4, 2008)

i have viewed a collection of cars a couple of years ago 

they included 

enzo
veyron
f40
250
360 x 2 
ferrari race cars 

the list is long 

2 cars to be viewed where repainted recently very badly and i was asked to quote to sort them both with wet sanding and detailing methods. 

it was the enzo and 250 each car was repainted at a cost of around 50k each neither where crashed damaged. 

Enzo had been key scratched while going gumball rally and the 250 had a light resto tidy up repaint. 

the owner has a part time valeter that earns very well doing repeat sat visits rolling the car around in a loop for valeting. 

when i priced to wet sanded both cars to sort out dry patches , orange peel , runs and sags , it was too expensive as i was tarred with the same profession as a valeter he uses at the weekend. 

Guess what i was too expensive, but a tenth of the cost of the poor repaint , and that tenth could transform the poor repaint to look like a 50k repaint .

Perceived value in the customers eyes is what ,matters

kelly


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## paulbraniff77 (Jul 17, 2012)

MidlandsCarCare said:


> I think Kelly's point on time is key too. I often spend more time on a car to achieve a little more than what had essentially been paid for as I know x amount if time will give x% improvement in defect removal or finish. I'm probably guilty of doing too much in an enhancement but I enjoy machining so don't mind too much but probably need to break my services down into three grades of correction rather than two.
> 
> I'd imagine most valeters would like more time to do more and I'm sure most are capable of doing so too, but if a customer is paying £30 rather than £300 there will naturally be a difference in outcome. The problem is the brush wielding cowboys who are giving the trade a poor image. There are some awesome valeters near me who are amazing at what they do. Any snobbery towards the trade is massively unfair. We do £20 maintenance washes too at our premises. It's not all about £400+ correction jobs.


i agree this is prob best answer to the question 
time allowed for the job and what the customer wants and its unfair to class every valeter the same due to some bad apples:thumb:


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz is the thread finished?


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## bagpuss (Dec 3, 2012)

So to keep this going when does an amateur detailer become a professional? (A) When they have been detailing for a number of years. (b) When they can be trusted to work on expensive cars £30,000 +. (c) When they have completed a training course. ect ect.?


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

The term professional simply suggests someone who charges money for a service. I guess it's down to the individual to decide when they are ready. I'd been machine polishing for 4-5 years before I felt comfortable charging people, some people seem to get there within a few weeks!

Experience will count for a lot but I find I'm constantly learning and re-assessing what I do and why I do something in a particular way. I doubt you'll find many people who will suggest they know everything or have all of the answers.


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## Tank. (Dec 26, 2011)

god, is this still going?


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