# Disappointing wolf hard body



## Gilfishman (May 28, 2013)

It's been almost 3 months I gave my brand new land rover 2 coats of this,prep with seal & shine first,,,I bought the whole shibang,.....spray top up detailed and nano shampoo,......so only these product have been used,...but the protection on vertical panels has gone( doors) and poor beading on bonnet..and every time it rained there's staining running from each side of door handles and below the badges on bonnet and boot,...I will use up the shampoo and detailed that I have left,..but never again.....and go back to smart sealant which is far superior...and less ££££.


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## mrbloke (Oct 13, 2010)

Try a bit of APC in the shampoo


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

try a search fe threads on issues and possible solutions i didnt get on with it sold it the ned the extra you need to do simply wasnt worth the hassle for the results.


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## pronet (Jan 17, 2012)

Gilfishman said:


> It's been almost 3 months I gave my brand new land rover 2 coats of this,prep with seal & shine first,,,I bought the whole shibang,.....spray top up detailed and nano shampoo,......so only these product have been used,...but the protection on vertical panels has gone( doors) and poor beading on bonnet..and every time it rained there's staining running from each side of door handles and below the badges on bonnet and boot,...I will use up the shampoo and detailed that I have left,..but never again.....and go back to smart sealant which is far superior...and less ££££.


I have the same experience.
I have applied 2 coats, after 14 days I cleaned the whole car with APC and applied the 3rd coat, and now after 3 weeks protection from side vertical panels has gone


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Yes it's a very poor product.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I was not impressed with it,didn't last at all.


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

beading isn't always equal to protection. does the water still sheet from the panels?
did you clay before using shine and seal?


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## Gilfishman (May 28, 2013)

I did clay,,but tbh not that much as nothing was coming of the paint,and this was on the 2 nd of being driven out of the show room,...I shine and sealed with a da and med pad on low speed,then applyed 2 coats,one and the other 2 days later.its funny the guy whom bought my other land rover phoned my yesterday ,..this being 3 months ago,......and asked me what was on the paint work as himself and land rover dealer where he had it serviced wanted to know!....as it was so easy to wash,water run off was great and it looks so good,..so I'm going back to that stuff:thumb:


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## Gilfishman (May 28, 2013)

Gilfishman said:


> I did clay,,but tbh not that much as nothing was coming of the paint,and this was on the 2 nd of being driven out of the show room,...I shine and sealed with a da and med pad on low speed,then applyed 2 coats,one and the other 2 days later.its funny the guy whom bought my other land rover phoned my yesterday ,..this being 3 months ago,......and asked me what was on the paint work as himself and land rover dealer where he had it serviced wanted to know!....as it was so easy to wash,water run off was great and it looks so good,..so I'm going back to that stuff:thumb:


The water only sheets of flat panels,,,roof,bonnets ect...the spray detail kinda improves water run off but after a few days it's gone,...


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

It's a great product, it just needs applying correctly. I had over almost a year of it looking exactly as it did on day one. 

It does need to be warm when you apply it and not get wet for a while after.

Think Gtechniq EXO v1 in terms of application.


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

seems weird it sheeta on horizontal panels but not on vertical panels.
what was on your other land rover?


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## Gilfishman (May 28, 2013)

Smart sealant ,,by smartwax,,,,and smartwax,.....I use to use theses together,.just bought a bottles of it.


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## Gilfishman (May 28, 2013)

SteveyG said:


> It's a great product, it just needs applying correctly. I had over almost a year of it looking exactly as it did on day one.
> 
> It does need to be warm when you apply it and not get wet for a while after.
> 
> Think Gtechniq EXO v1 in terms of application.


I did apply correctly....even ask wolf man questions on the topic,it was applyed in 17 deg.it was kept dry for 24 hrs.......buy the way wolf chemicals haven't been on dw for a while.


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

pop him a pm or a email. he'll get back to you as soon as possible. he has great service


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## MAUI (Feb 1, 2008)

SteveyG said:


> It's a great product, it just needs applying correctly. I had over almost a year of it looking exactly as it did on day one.
> 
> It does need to be warm when you apply it and not get wet for a while after.
> 
> Think Gtechniq EXO v1 in terms of application.


:thumb: 11 months and still going strong.


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## adjones (Apr 24, 2013)

Gilfishman said:


> I did apply correctly....even ask wolf man questions on the topic,it was applyed in 17 deg.it was kept dry for 24 hrs.......buy the way wolf chemicals haven't been on dw for a while.


They dropped sponsoring til next year and new season. Guess money must be tight.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

We're getting a year plus with Hard Body here in Australia. What temps are you applying this in?


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## ianrobbo1 (Feb 13, 2007)

I've had no problems whatsoever with S & S with HB over it, :doublesho I like to stick some 2c-v3 over the top, but that is just overkill, as my paint seems pretty good, to the tune of I actually took it off, and put more on, just so I was sure I had coated everything!!


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

vertical panels for me it wasnt to bad but horizontal panels roof and bonnet it was non existant. the scratch resistance again is something to be taken lightly imho if at all a selling point. after speaking with wolfs mine could have been that the shampoo wasnt cleaning the surface enough hence someones mention of apc. this i find strange though the product shouldnt have needed it doing. as above temps etc must be spot on which for such product again is a real negative


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## C0NAN (Jan 24, 2013)

I've also had disappointing results with Shine and Seal and then Hard Body on top. Lasted around 2 months on soft Nissan paint.


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

adjones said:


> They dropped sponsoring til next year and new season. Guess money must be tight.


They are producing some new products. why pay sponsership if you haven't got much to say. better that they can come back and reveal some new products. He's still active on the forum though.



alan hanson said:


> vertical panels for me it wasnt to bad but horizontal panels roof and bonnet it was non existant. the scratch resistance again is something to be taken lightly imho if at all a selling point. after speaking with wolfs mine could have been that the shampoo wasnt cleaning the surface enough hence someones mention of apc. this i find strange though the product shouldnt have needed it doing. as above temps etc must be spot on which for such product again is a real negative


I think temps mist be spot on for several coatings... I'v seen some guys who had to raise the temp to apply a coating.



C0NAN said:


> I've also had disappointing results with Shine and Seal and then Hard Body on top. Lasted around 2 months on soft Nissan paint.


I've read before that even Wolf has mentioned that durability is less on soft paint because of trouble bonding to it, but 2 months seems very short...


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## Mk3Brick (May 24, 2012)

After reading this thread have i made the wrong choice in buying Hard Body for my JUKE? if you guys reckon it ain't all that then ill return it un-opened rather than give it a go and sell it at a loss to people that dont think its any good. cheers


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

Think as said unless you have the perfect conditions to apply it in then yeh i would consider something else


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

Mk3Brick said:


> After reading this thread have i made the wrong choice in buying Hard Body for my JUKE? if you guys reckon it ain't all that then ill return it un-opened rather than give it a go and sell it at a loss to people that dont think its any good. cheers


put it up in the sales section. or just go for it.
don't think the weather condition are good to apply any coating without a heated garage


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## DJBAILEY (May 7, 2011)

I've done a few cars with HB and they are all doing great 1 to 1.5 years in. They were 2 Acuras and 3 BMW's. However, I had the same experience as the OP with my own car. It is a Volvo with black paint. It is soft paint, so that is what I attributed it too. The car was clayed, polished with IPA wipe down after each panel, panel wipe after all done polishing, then used the S&S before applying HB 2x with a full day inbetween. So I don't believe it was poor prep. In fact, I probably was more anal about prepping my car than the others. The product has been hit or miss but I don't think they really understand why sometimes it doesn't work. 

I've been afraid to use it on a customer car since my bad experience.


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## Mk3Brick (May 24, 2012)

Blackmondie said:


> put it up in the sales section. or just go for it.
> don't think the weather condition are good to apply any coating without a heated garage


i hadn't considered conditions when i ordered a coating,you live and you learn. i hate using wax so was looking for something different, but i need to re-consider i guess. thanks chap.


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

some sealants arent as fussy as hb seems to be dont let this put you off we will have some mild days which if you fo it during the middle of they so minimal dew you stand a better chance


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## Mk3Brick (May 24, 2012)

i have PB EX-P which was awesome on my Mk3, i just wanted to try a nano sealent instead of Carnuaba cream type sealent on my JUKE. seems like a bit too much of high maintanence product genre for me. thanks.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Mk3Brick said:


> i hadn't considered conditions when i ordered a coating,you live and you learn. i hate using wax so was looking for something different, but i need to re-consider i guess. thanks chap.


Wolf's Body Wrap is not fussy at all if you still want to use a Wolf's Chemicals product. Otherwise you may as well jump on the Sonax BSD bandwagon as it really is excellent and easy to apply.


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

just hold on to the coating untill temps get better. EX-P is a good sealant to use in the meantime.

Problem with coatings is that the nano particles really have to bond with the paint, so the pores must be very clean.
I also think that bonding to a soft paint is more difficult as the upper layer tries to dry to a hard layer, but on a softer bodem... this might give problems I THINK.

OP, did you see any hazing when the product was drying?


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

Gilfishman said:


> It's been almost 3 months I gave my brand new land rover 2 coats of this,prep with seal & shine first,,,I bought the whole shibang,.....spray top up detailed and nano shampoo,......so only these product have been used,...but the protection on vertical panels has gone( doors) and poor beading on bonnet..and every time it rained there's staining running from each side of door handles and below the badges on bonnet and boot,...I will use up the shampoo and detailed that I have left,..but never again.....and go back to smart sealant which is far superior...and less ££££.


Hi! Apologies for the late reply, I've just seen this! So in our experience we have noticed that on horizontal panels, sometimes HB does seem that it isn't present after some time, but on the vertical panels it does well. We can't pinpoint the problem 100%, but we do have a hypothesis: Due to HB's very thin, liquid state, the sealant tends to be absorbed by the paint more on the horizontal parts, simply due to gravity. Basically it sinks in further than on the vertical sides and the nano bridge that it forms, starts at a lower point on the paint than on the vertical sides. This is just a theory, but we do have a solution . Simply apply more product to the horizontal parts of the car. Also if the weather is humid, either hot or colder climates, curing of the sealant will be affected. If you applied it 3 months ago, I'm pretty sure that the weather in the UK around that time of year can be pretty damp. Also, if you're using the QD, which you shouldn't need to after only 3 months, be aware that it is a water-based QD and it will take time to cure, so don't expect immediate beading after application :thumb:

Also, we have noticed this phenomenon with just about every other nano coating on the market that we've tested. I did a test on my Opel Astra with 3 other nano coatings and the results were the same. But as I said earlier, just apply a bit more of the sealant to these parts and you should be OK!

As for the black stains from the door handles, I'm afraid there's not a wax/sealant/coating on the market that will prevent that. It's strange that your car is staining after only a short period of time. Perhaps try a nano coating for the plastics and this will greatly reduce the staining. I assume that your car is white?? Land Rovers naturally have harder paint, but if it's white the paint should be very hard, so bonding should not be a problem if the conditions are right !


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

I got some stunning looks from hardbody and more then a year fantastic durability.
Washing with nano bathe and feeding it with the nano spray is a must to my opinion.
fantastic product.


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## Gilfishman (May 28, 2013)

Wolf's Chemicals said:


> Hi! Apologies for the late reply, I've just seen this! So in our experience we have noticed that on horizontal panels, sometimes HB does seem that it isn't present after some time, but on the vertical panels it does well. We can't pinpoint the problem 100%, but we do have a hypothesis: Due to HB's very thin, liquid state, the sealant tends to be absorbed by the paint more on the horizontal parts, simply due to gravity. Basically it sinks in further than on the vertical sides and the nano bridge that it forms, starts at a lower point on the paint than on the vertical sides. This is just a theory, but we do have a solution . Simply apply more product to the horizontal parts of the car. Also if the weather is humid, either hot or colder climates, curing of the sealant will be affected. If you applied it 3 months ago, I'm pretty sure that the weather in the UK around that time of year can be pretty damp. Also, if you're using the QD, which you shouldn't need to after only 3 months, be aware that it is a water-based QD and it will take time to cure, so don't expect immediate beading after application :thumb:
> 
> Also, we have noticed this phenomenon with just about every other nano coating on the market that we've tested. I did a test on my Opel Astra with 3 other nano coatings and the results were the same. But as I said earlier, just apply a bit more of the sealant to these parts and you should be OK!
> 
> As for the black stains from the door handles, I'm afraid there's not a wax/sealant/coating on the market that will prevent that. It's strange that your car is staining after only a short period of time. Perhaps try a nano coating for the plastics and this will greatly reduce the staining. I assume that your car is white?? Land Rovers naturally have harder paint, but if it's white the paint should be very hard, so bonding should not be a problem if the conditions are right !


.....thanks for a reply,.....I will redcoat the doors,.....I never mentioned black staining.....there's no real black plastic as it colour coded,door sills,handles,ect and I gave the 2 coats of hb as we'll .


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## Gilfishman (May 28, 2013)

The staining is only visible after rain,...not when I wash it,it's visible once the paint is dry( naturally) after rain,..I remove it just with a quick wipe with a microfiber ,but no real dirt or anything can be seen on the microfiber .


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## Gilfishman (May 28, 2013)

ronwash said:


> I got some stunning looks from hardbody and more then a year fantastic durability.
> Washing with nano bathe and feeding it with the nano spray is a must to my opinion.
> fantastic product.


how often do u use the nano spray?


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

Gilfishman said:


> how often do u use the nano spray?


once a month should be enough. what shampoo do you use?


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## orbital (Dec 28, 2010)

SteveyG said:


> Wolf's Body Wrap is not fussy at all if you still want to use a Wolf's Chemicals product. Otherwise you may as well jump on the Sonax BSD bandwagon as it really is excellent and easy to apply.


i did just that ^^^ :thumb:


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

Gilfishman said:


> The staining is only visible after rain,...not when I wash it,it's visible once the paint is dry( naturally) after rain,..I remove it just with a quick wipe with a microfiber ,but no real dirt or anything can be seen on the microfiber .


This is basically the carbon matter in the door handles and muck that accumulates on cars around the badges... it stains unfortunately, but HB will make it much easier to remove


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

Gilfishman said:


> how often do u use the nano spray?


Nano spray every couple of weeks.
washing with nano bathe every 3-4 weeks.


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## Gilfishman (May 28, 2013)

I only ever use the nano shampoo( wolf )...


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## Gilfishman (May 28, 2013)

ronwash said:


> Nano spray every couple of weeks.
> washing with nano bathe every 3-4 weeks.


You say 3/4 weeks u use the nano shampoo,.........do you use another brand in those 3/4 weeks as I wash my car every 6/ 7 days as it gets mucky traveling through country lanes.


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

Gilfishman said:


> I only ever use the nano shampoo( wolf )...


The nano spray renewing hardbody like the shampoo just dont.


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

yeh if your going to use it the nano spray has to be used i thought.


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

If you ise nanobath every week, you won't have a problem, but you can use the nano QD once a month to be safe.
make sure you shake the nano bath bottle before using.


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## adjones (Apr 24, 2013)

Wolf's Chemicals said:


> Hi! Apologies for the late reply, I've just seen this! So in our experience we have noticed that on horizontal panels, sometimes HB does seem that it isn't present after some time, but on the vertical panels it does well. We can't pinpoint the problem 100%, but we do have a hypothesis: Due to HB's very thin, liquid state, the sealant tends to be absorbed by the paint more on the horizontal parts, simply due to gravity. Basically it sinks in further than on the vertical sides and the nano bridge that it forms, starts at a lower point on the paint than on the vertical sides. This is just a theory, but we do have a solution . Simply apply more product to the horizontal parts of the car. Also if the weather is humid, either hot or colder climates, curing of the sealant will be affected. If you applied it 3 months ago, I'm pretty sure that the weather in the UK around that time of year can be pretty damp. Also, if you're using the QD, which you shouldn't need to after only 3 months, be aware that it is a water-based QD and it will take time to cure, so don't expect immediate beading after application :thumb:
> 
> Also, we have noticed this phenomenon with just about every other nano coating on the market that we've tested. I did a test on my Opel Astra with 3 other nano coatings and the results were the same. But as I said earlier, just apply a bit more of the sealant to these parts and you should be OK!
> 
> As for the black stains from the door handles, I'm afraid there's not a wax/sealant/coating on the market that will prevent that. It's strange that your car is staining after only a short period of time. Perhaps try a nano coating for the plastics and this will greatly reduce the staining. I assume that your car is white?? Land Rovers naturally have harder paint, but if it's white the paint should be very hard, so bonding should not be a problem if the conditions are right !


You are kidding... Right?!


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

adjones said:


> You are kidding... Right?!


??? please explain?


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## podgas (Apr 4, 2010)

Used Hard Body on my Wheels 4 Coats.
Protects like a Dream Still Beading after 6 months like the rest of the Car.
So Easy to Clean !


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

Blackmondie said:


> ??? please explain?


Originally Posted by Wolf's Chemicals View Post 
Hi! Apologies for the late reply, I've just seen this! So in our experience we have noticed that on horizontal panels, sometimes HB does seem that it isn't present after some time, but on the vertical panels it does well. We can't pinpoint the problem 100%, but we do have a hypothesis: Due to HB's very thin, liquid state, the sealant tends to be absorbed by the paint more on the horizontal parts, simply due to gravity. Basically it sinks in further than on the vertical sides and the nano bridge that it forms, starts at a lower point on the paint than on the vertical sides. This is just a theory, but we do have a solution . Simply apply more product to the horizontal parts of the car. Also if the weather is humid, either hot or colder climates, curing of the sealant will be affected. If you applied it 3 months ago, I'm pretty sure that the weather in the UK around that time of year can be pretty damp. Also, if you're using the QD, which you shouldn't need to after only 3 months, be aware that it is a water-based QD and it will take time to cure, so don't expect immediate beading after application

Also, we have noticed this phenomenon with just about every other nano coating on the market that we've tested. I did a test on my Opel Astra with 3 other nano coatings and the results were the same. But as I said earlier, just apply a bit more of the sealant to these parts and you should be OK!

As for the black stains from the door handles, I'm afraid there's not a wax/sealant/coating on the market that will prevent that. It's strange that your car is staining after only a short period of time. Perhaps try a nano coating for the plastics and this will greatly reduce the staining. I assume that your car is white?? Land Rovers naturally have harder paint, but if it's white the paint should be very hard, so bonding should not be a problem if the conditions are right !

I reckon what Adjones is trying to get at is that there are a lot of if's, what's and maybe's to applying this product, see red text, making it unnecessarily fussy. 
Looking at it myself, it looks like you may have to apply it in a sterile room away from anything and everything and then treat it with kid gloves, as long as the weather is of the right temperature of course


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

spursfan said:


> Originally Posted by Wolf's Chemicals View Post
> Hi! Apologies for the late reply, I've just seen this! So in our experience we have noticed that on horizontal panels, sometimes HB does seem that it isn't present after some time, but on the vertical panels it does well. We can't pinpoint the problem 100%, but we do have a hypothesis: Due to HB's very thin, liquid state, the sealant tends to be absorbed by the paint more on the horizontal parts, simply due to gravity. Basically it sinks in further than on the vertical sides and the nano bridge that it forms, starts at a lower point on the paint than on the vertical sides. This is just a theory, but we do have a solution . Simply apply more product to the horizontal parts of the car. Also if the weather is humid, either hot or colder climates, curing of the sealant will be affected. If you applied it 3 months ago, I'm pretty sure that the weather in the UK around that time of year can be pretty damp. Also, if you're using the QD, which you shouldn't need to after only 3 months, be aware that it is a water-based QD and it will take time to cure, so don't expect immediate beading after application
> 
> Also, we have noticed this phenomenon with just about every other nano coating on the market that we've tested. I did a test on my Opel Astra with 3 other nano coatings and the results were the same. But as I said earlier, just apply a bit more of the sealant to these parts and you should be OK!
> ...


I think this is a fact with a lot of coatings and producta in general. some work for one and not for another. the complexer it chemically gets, the more the conditions have to be right. and then there are all the enviromental and other variabels... no manifacturer can test everything ( that goes for any brand / any product).
At least Wolf's dare to say it out loud that they don't know and gives you a theory, so they have been thinking about it. as for other companies, they don't respond / gibe an answers that doesn't make sense/ or even have you banned ( not on DW, but ask Evotuning)...


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## ianrobbo1 (Feb 13, 2007)

I Use Wolfs stuff, and I've put S&S as well as HB on half a dozen different cars, and all are doing really well,:thumb: I even tried to take it all off my own car as I had nothing to clean!! :doublesho I stuck it back on only a week or so again, in "not" ideal conditions, and as yet have to see any deterioration of performance, yes I know it's early, but even so I don't expect to have any!! I for one like Wolfs stuff though I've not tried it all, and I'm not happy how the tire black when used on plastic trim leech's off onto the paintwork, but that is probably down to user error IE put too much on!! :wall: 

I've tried a few different products, and rather than ***** about them, I just go to my "reliable" stuff and use the products I'm not happy with on less sensitive areas or cars, so at least they arnt wasted, but I don't buy them again


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

adjones said:


> You are kidding... Right?!


Perhaps you would like to give your expert opinion about my products? After reading through your previous posts, it seems that you have quite a bit to say about my products, as well as others' like Auto Finesse, and what they can and can't do so I would love to hear your explanation.

After you've given your explanation, I would kindly ask you to refrain from commenting on my posts and about my products. Yes you are most certainly entitled to your opinion, as is everyone on this forum, but it seems that instead of helping people out on the forum you have nothing other than derogatory remarks about everyone's products, aside from Orchard Autocare's which you have praised in numerous posts.

My guess, and I could be wrong, is that you either have a personal problem with me or that you have interests in another manufacturer's success or perhaps both. Either case, your join date of 24-04-2013 was immediately followed (the next day to be exact) by negative comments about my products, so this just shows me that you're here for nothing more than to argue. You are quite well-spoken and you seem like an intelligent guy, so perhaps you would like to use your knowledge of detailing to help people rather than carry on the way you have been? :thumb:

Oh and by the way, no money is not "tight", as you mentioned in your post about why we are not advertising on DW this quarter. We have our reasons and no that is not one of them.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Ive not yet used hard body so cant comment on that product but have use other wolf product and have been pleased with them all


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## pawlik (May 16, 2011)

Have aplied on 5 cars, durability was no longer than 2 months.


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

pawlik said:


> Have aplied on 5 cars, durability was no longer than 2 months.


What kind of cars? How did you apply it? It's just weird for me to hear these stories, as I've seen more than 2 years on my truck with Body Wrap...


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## MAUI (Feb 1, 2008)

I applied it a year ago on a car that sits outside 24/7 in the hot Hawaiian Sun along with a salt mist and it still beads nicely. My test is to see if I can get 2 years out of Hard Body.


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## pawlik (May 16, 2011)

Wolf's Chemicals said:


> What kind of cars? How did you apply it? It's just weird for me to hear these stories, as I've seen more than 2 years on my truck with Body Wrap...


Newer use BW but HB was aplied on Vectra, Astra G, MB E class (resprayed), Volvo V70 (resprayed) and Honda Civic, all cars was after full correction (3 step), each panel was 2-3 times IPA (99%) wipe down, only for honda I use 30% IPA mix. HB applied with CarPro suede MF. After 3-4h second coat.


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

pawlik said:


> Newer use BW but HB was aplied on Vectra, Astra G, MB E class (resprayed), Volvo V70 (resprayed) and Honda Civic, all cars was after full correction (3 step), each panel was 2-3 times IPA (99%) wipe down, only for honda I use 30% IPA mix. HB applied with CarPro suede MF. After 3-4h second coat.


Well that's just really ironic that these cars are what you've applied HB to, as these are almost exactly the same cars that people have experienced early loss of beading with . I have also experienced this on my Astra on the flat surfaces, but I have found that applying a bit more sealant helps immensely! Being that Hondas have very soft and porous paint, the same applies to them (applying more sealant). With the resprays, I can't give you any good news though. I've yet to see a respray here in Hungary that will hold even a wax for long, let alone a nano sealant and that goes for any nano sealant. Unfortunately resprays don't usually come close to the original paint quality


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## wayne_w (Jan 25, 2007)

This is my Soul during it's AutoExpress photo shoot. It had Hard Body applied about 14 months ago, which I think is just starting to drop off now..I'm more than happy with the duration it has shown, when the spring arrives next year, I'll be topping up using Hard Body once again :thumb:


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

pawlik said:


> Newer use BW but HB was aplied on Vectra, Astra G, MB E class (resprayed), Volvo V70 (resprayed) and Honda Civic, all cars was after full correction (3 step), each panel was 2-3 times IPA (99%) wipe down, only for honda I use 30% IPA mix. HB applied with CarPro suede MF. After 3-4h second coat.


what year are they? because maybe you should check if they aren't single stage paint, as coatings tend to not bond to single stage paint.
could be the same problem if the resprays aren't any good.

I have heard that IPA 99% is to strong for car paint and makes it a bit "softer", which could explain why the coating doesn't bond well.
Have you tried Eraser or Panel Wipe?


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Although I no longer have s&s and hb anymore.
The bonnet of my van that I applied both to well over 6 months ago maybe longer is still looking amd beading/sheeting remarkably well. Even tho 1 coat of hb is all that was applied and it was my first time using both.


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## pawlik (May 16, 2011)

Wolf's Chemicals said:


> Well that's just really ironic that these cars are what you've applied HB to, as these are almost exactly the same cars that people have experienced early loss of beading with . I have also experienced this on my Astra on the flat surfaces, but I have found that applying a bit more sealant helps immensely! Being that Hondas have very soft and porous paint, the same applies to them (applying more sealant). With the resprays, I can't give you any good news though. I've yet to see a respray here in Hungary that will hold even a wax for long, let alone a nano sealant and that goes for any nano sealant. Unfortunately resprays don't usually come close to the original paint quality


Unfortunately here in Lithuania almost all cars are resprayed, 90% of cars witch are 5 year and older are resprayed and mainly very poorly... But one thing is unbeatable in HB.... GLOSS!!! :thumb:


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## pawlik (May 16, 2011)

Blackmondie said:


> what year are they? because maybe you should check if they aren't single stage paint, as coatings tend to not bond to single stage paint.
> could be the same problem if the resprays aren't any good.
> 
> I have heard that IPA 99% is to strong for car paint and makes it a bit "softer", which could explain why the coating doesn't bond well.
> Have you tried Eraser or Panel Wipe?


Astra G 2000
Vectra 1999
Civic 2009
Other don't know.
No they are not single stage. Don't think that 4-6 sec reaction of IPA can change physical parameters of clearcoat. Even solvent 646 start damage paint after few min. (I work before in bodyshop).
Yep I tried Eraser, nice stuff with great smell but use it for paint inspection after or during polishing only. For Nano coatings use IPA or Spies Hecker 7010.


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

the astra and vectta will probably be singlr stage. I have a 1999 Astra and it's singke stage. mate of mine has a 2004 and even that one is still single stage. so could explain.

as for the reaction on IPA, it goes very quickly that the paint swells a bit and is a little softer


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## ianrobbo1 (Feb 13, 2007)

Slightly off topic for a second!! why are so many cars re sprayed in Lithuania ?? are they all nicked from the EEU and exported??  

Sorry for the jacking, back on topic,

I've put S&S with HB over a couple of repaired wings on cars, and I cant honestly say I've noticed any difference of finish of the S&S & HB between the original paint and the resprayed paint?? could it be the actual paint used to respray in different country's/areas that makes the difference ??

something doesn't look right about the last paragraph so I hope it makes sense!!


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

ianrobbo1 said:


> Slightly off topic for a second!! why are so many cars re sprayed in Lithuania ?? are they all nicked from the EEU and exported??
> 
> Sorry for the jacking, back on topic,
> 
> ...


Just like here in Hungary, the resprays are just crap. Water-based paints that oxidize very quickly and don't even hold a carnauba wax for long


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## pawlik (May 16, 2011)

ianrobbo1 said:


> Slightly off topic for a second!! why are so many cars re sprayed in Lithuania ?? are they all nicked from the EEU and exported??
> 
> Car resellers buy damaged cars ( mainly from Italy, France and Germany), repairs (cheapest way of course) and sells like almost new:thumb:


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## pawlik (May 16, 2011)

Blackmondie said:


> the astra and vectta will probably be singlr stage. I have a 1999 Astra and it's singke stage. mate of mine has a 2004 and even that one is still single stage. so could explain.
> 
> as for the reaction on IPA, it goes very quickly that the paint swells a bit and is a little softer


Believe me mate, with 7 years of detailing experience, I know the difference between single and not single stage paint. Single stage paint system is more cheaper and faster and most frequently are this color:
red, blue, white and green. My Astra is silver, Vectra was Black.
Sorry for my bad English


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

Wolf's Chemicals;4353697 said:


> Just like here in Hungary, the resprays are just crap. Water-based paints that oxidize very quickly and don't even hold a carnauba wax for long


Jesse hi
Can you tell why so many cars are resparyed?


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

ronwash said:


> Jesse hi
> Can you tell why so many cars are resparyed?


Because most of the used cars here in Hungary were brought in from another country, usually Germany or the UK, and they were purchased as wrecked vehicles. They buy them for pennies on the dollar, bring them here to a chop shop for cheap repairs and sell them for huge profits


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

I still use wolf stuff when a customer does not want the other product I carry, never had a problem but I do tend to apply it thick anyway.
I think people don't apply these products properly, but one known factor is once on they have to flash off and not get damp.
Also a lot of people put it on then buff off straight away, hence most have just wiped the product straight off.


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## ianrobbo1 (Feb 13, 2007)

Mirror Finish Details said:


> Also a lot of people put it on then buff off straight away, hence most have just wiped the product straight off.


What I tend to do, is slap the ol S&S all over the car first, then as soon as the car is completely covered, start to buff off in the same order of panels I laid the product on, I either wait an hour or three and stick another coat on from thee opposite way round, ensuring I cover all the car twice!! :doublesho I do exactly the same with HB, and I make sure it's done in the dry, it's worked fine for me doing things that way, I make sure I DON'T put it on too thick.
After a wash using Wolfs Nano Shampoo, I'll spritz a bit of the Wolfs QD though I'm not convinced it makes that much difference because the S&S with HB over works so well!! :thumb:


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

As you may all know Im a big fan of wolf Products  

But Hard body is a complete disappointment, I cannot get it to last more than a few months, no matter how I apply it.

Whatever the difference is between HB and Bodywrap has made HB just way to fussy IMHO.


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

ITHAQVA said:


> As you may all know Im a big fan of wolf Products
> 
> But Hard body is a complete disappointment, I cannot get it to last more than a few months, no matter how I apply it.
> 
> Whatever the difference is between HB and Bodywrap has made HB just way to fussy IMHO.


??? Really??? How much are you using during the application? We've noticed that if it's humid outside, etc. the solvents in it tend to dry faster and this affects it. What's the weather like in Cornwall this time of year??


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

Im getting more confused by the replies what conditions does it like? Because all that have been mentioned it doesnt like seem to be many which given this country seems tough going


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

alan hanson said:


> Im getting more confused by the replies what conditions does it like? Because all that have been mentioned it doesnt like seem to be many which given this country seems tough going


It should be applied in dry conditions above 10 degrees. It seems like the people having problems with it are mostly from the UK though.


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## C0NAN (Jan 24, 2013)

Wolf's Chemicals said:


> It should be applied in dry conditions above 10 degrees. It seems like the people having problems with it are mostly from the UK though.


I'm in the Philippines and Hard Body doesn't make it past two months here.


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

C0NAN said:


> I'm in the Philippines and Hard Body doesn't make it past two months here.


In my experience not many LSP's do over there  So hot and humid! Try to apply more of the sealant and see if that helps! In other words a little more than "thin coats"!


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