# are u a paint sprayer ( professional)?



## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

hi folks, im after some advice from a professional sprayer regarding 3 stage pearlescent paint. can any of u help?


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

What do you need to know? I can ask my man Mick.


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

deegan1979 said:


> hi folks, im after some advice from a professional sprayer regarding 3 stage pearlescent paint. can any of u help?


I'm a professional car sprayer. What is it you want to know about three stage perl.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

MidlandsCarCare said:


> What do you need to know? I can ask my man Mick.





Andyb0127 said:


> I'm a professional car sprayer. What is it you want to know about three stage perl.


thanks guys. basically someone has kindly reversed into my car over night. its one of the orange ford focus st's ( electric orange ). i need a new rear bumper, ford will supply a primed one for £250, however to supply paint and fit ford want £1199. theyve told me the paint alone will be £350 as its a waterbased 3 stage pearl. i approached a long running small accident repair guy where i live who would paint it for £300 but it would be in solvent based paint, he informed me the colour match may not be great as it can differ from waterbased.
a few people on the st forum have warned me away from ford, ive also been told of some good colour matches done in solvent based, by people experienced with pearl effect paints. the local chap did say hed test the colour on some test panels , but im dubious if this kind of paint does require more of a specialist sprayer.
if u could shed any light on this it would help with my decision making.
thanks


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## Jdm boy (May 13, 2011)

I not a professional sprayer but I do know abot or two about bodywork etc and 1190£ just to spray a bumper is beyend a joke, as far as I'm aware 3stage pearl is pretty finky at the best of time so I'd imagine if you gave it to an experienced sprayer there would be a good chance he would get it right. And sure if he gets I wrong the first time and gets it right the second time won't you still save a couple hundred pound. 

I suppose then again if you get it done by ford at least it will be pretty damn good with a good match and youl proper recipts from ford but it just seems an awful waste of money!!!!

Ooo btw id it going threw insurance or out of your own
pocket?


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

own pocket unfortunatly. thanks for your thoughts. been researching the colour amd get mixed views as to if it is a true pearl or a cheaper special effect paint


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

3 stage pearlescent paint can be very hard to match same as candy paint


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

kempe said:


> 3 stage pearlescent paint can be very hard to match same as candy paint


ford have said virtually every one of these in this colour need to have the paint scanned as tgey are all slightly different. obviously i want it to look right but nearly 1200 quid is a lot to stump up. having said that if the other guys doesnt get it close ill be kicking myself


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

and also £350 for the paint? thats a load of rubbish :lol: Ive seen it for about £100 for what you nedd


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Nearly £1200 to paint and fit a bumper, seems a bit steep.
With these three stage perls, you apply a white ground coat first, then apply the electric orange, then apply clear laquer. But a spray out car will need to be done, but you will prob need to do a couple with different ammounts/coats orange applied. To get the best colour match.

I've smart repairs done with these three stage perls, some have been really good, others have been terrible it's down to the experience of the guy doing it.

Honestly £300 for that paint is probably about right, were on glasurit at work and recently did smart car in the same style orange two doors, two rear wheel arches, paint came to just over £400, ones you can buy online or eBay probably wouldnt even match. So price of that paint is probably around right.


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## MK1Campaign (Mar 27, 2007)

If they are worried about the colour then they should arrange for their paint supplier to put a spectrometer onto the existing paint. This will formulate a very close match.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Andyb0127 said:


> Nearly £1200 to paint and fit a bumper, seems a bit steep.
> With these three stage perls, you apply a white ground coat first, then apply the electric orange, then apply clear laquer. But a spray out car will need to be done, but you will prob need to do a couple with different ammounts/coats orange applied. To get the best colour match.
> 
> I've smart repairs done with these three stage perls, some have been really good, others have been terrible it's down to the experience of the guy doing it.
> ...


i was afraid ud say that. looks like im gunna have to bite the bullet and give it to fords. 
a friend asked his brother also who works at another bodyshop, he said he wouldnt touch this colour as it can be more hassle than its worth. thanks for your advice


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

MK1Campaign said:


> If they are worried about the colour then they should arrange for their paint supplier to put a spectrometer onto the existing paint. This will formulate a very close match.


thanks. ill ask about this on monday


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## cossierick (Jan 19, 2011)

Where are you ??? someone else local may no a local shop that can help.

As your proberly aware it is a swine of a colour. It does vary on aplication aswell with different paint manufacture, dupont / ici / octoral / etc

What weve found with 3 stage's is make sure the ground colour is covered then its usually just one full pearl and a drop, at the end of the day ford arnt going to put 2+ coats of pearl on every car when one will give a similar effect.!!

Rick

Ps it can be done, and wont cost over a grand. Shop arround and be willing to travell


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

how about sourcing a second hand bumper allready painted ?


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

MK1Campaign said:


> If they are worried about the colour then they should arrange for their paint supplier to put a spectrometer onto the existing paint. This will formulate a very close match.


It's not quite as simple as that with a three stage. 
The orange can be the right colour but it's a bit of a low hider meaning you've got to lay a lot of even coats down and then you've got to put the pearl coat on, which as it's being sprayed is almost clear .... one coat too few or one coat too many will throw the colour off and it's all guess work. You can't really see the pearls until it's been lacquered and by then it's too late.

All that said in my wb paint system it's a two stage and I've done quite a few corners which have come out well. Whether I'd want to take on a whole bumper is a different matter.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

cossierick said:


> Where are you ??? someone else local may no a local shop that can help.
> 
> As your proberly aware it is a swine of a colour. It does vary on aplication aswell with different paint manufacture, dupont / ici / octoral / etc
> 
> ...


im in the south east. very close to bromley, croydon, westerham and biggin hill. anyone near me? this is proving more difficult to decide now.
i think the main issue is that the car has water based paint. and the local guy uses solvent paints. is that an issue with the colour ams pearl?


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

craigeh123 said:


> how about sourcing a second hand bumper allready painted ?


scoured the internet. can only find ones that are not in perfect condition. thanks tho


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## Jdm boy (May 13, 2011)

I'm not sure where about this is but you should look up "fully loaded cars" there work is immense but you will have to pay well for it!!! I think they are around London somewhere

http://www.fullyloadedcars.com/


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

deegan1979 said:


> scoured the internet. can only find ones that are not in perfect condition. thanks tho


I had a feeling you wouldve tried that route allready , I know 3 stage is a ***** - I wanted to do mine in pearl yellow and my painter mate said you know if you scuff it we won't match it again


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

Try this eBay number - 221008388232 orange st breaking , even if the paints not bang on the bumper may be cheaper . like I say my mates a painter but I don't think the colour match would be great , that said I think there was variations between body and bumpers from factory !


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

craigeh123 said:


> Try this eBay number - 221008388232 orange st breaking , even if the paints not bang on the bumper may be cheaper . like I say my mates a painter but I don't think the colour match would be great , that said I think there was variations between body and bumpers from factory !


your'e a good man for taking the time to find this. unfortnatly spoke to this guy a few days ago and he said it will need repairing so wasnt for me


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Have you tried phoning ford parts yourself. As alot of ford bumpers come already painted, maybe worth a try see what they say. That way you would only have to get some one to fit it.


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

Yeah ford don't really seem to know themselves if they are painted or not. 

Had a couple turn up painted already, when they said they would be in primer. And then ordered one just before Xmas last year, expecting it to be painted and it was in primer lol

I'd find a 2nd hand one too, may take a while but will pro save a lot of hasstle


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Andyb0127 said:


> Have you tried phoning ford parts yourself. As alot of ford bumpers come already painted, maybe worth a try see what they say. That way you would only have to get some one to fit it.


thanks. done it already. this colour isnt available pre painted. they will supply a primed one for £250. or they will supply and paint one for me for £799.
to supply paint and fit its just short of £1200.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

ianFRST said:


> Yeah ford don't really seem to know themselves if they are painted or not.
> 
> Had a couple turn up painted already, when they said they would be in primer. And then ordered one just before Xmas last year, expecting it to be painted and it was in primer lol
> 
> I'd find a 2nd hand one too, may take a while but will pro save a lot of hasstle


indeed u could be right. i can live with it for a while but id like to get it sorted soonish


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

MK1Campaign said:


> If they are worried about the colour then they should arrange for their paint supplier to put a spectrometer onto the existing paint. This will formulate a very close match.


They will already have one of them bud, bodyshop don't tend to use colour variant chip now they scan everything and do spray out cards to match the colour which is costing bodyshops thousands of pounds in wasted materials and come backs.


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## cossierick (Jan 19, 2011)

deegan1979 said:


> thanks. done it already. this colour isnt available pre painted. they will supply a primed one for £250. or they will supply and paint one for me for £799.
> to supply paint and fit its just short of £1200.


So they want £400 to fit it ?????

Rick


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

cossierick said:


> So they want £400 to fit it ?????
> 
> Rick


Well 'apparently' the 2side brackets that secure the sides of the bumper to the car always break when removing a bumper (bull) methinks.
So again 'apparently' I'll need both ne brackets, 2 bolts and 10 rivets 
So they must be expensive. Think ford are shafting me here. Going to call a different ford tmrw and see


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## cossierick (Jan 19, 2011)

deegan1979 said:


> Well 'apparently' the 2side brackets that secure the sides of the bumper to the car always break when removing a bumper (bull) methinks.
> So again 'apparently' I'll need both ne brackets, 2 bolts and 10 rivets
> So they must be expensive. Think ford are shafting me here. Going to call a different ford tmrw and see


The side brackets are a pain to be honest, they dont break there held to the bumper with the rivets, so when you drill the rivets out to remove them from the old bumper to the new somtimes the heat from drilling the rivets out will melt the plastic and make the hole bigget so the new rivets dont fit !!

Weve done loads and im sure there only £20ish, but like you say two of them then the rivets etc etc it all ads up.

Please shop about mate, i hate to see somone getting ripped off but as your obviously aware you will have to pay a decent amount to get the job done properly.

Rick


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

deegan1979 said:


> Well 'apparently' the 2side brackets that secure the sides of the bumper to the car always break when removing a bumper (bull) methinks.
> So again 'apparently' I'll need both ne brackets, 2 bolts and 10 rivets
> So they must be expensive. Think ford are shafting me here. Going to call a different ford tmrw and see


they are telling you the truth I'm afraid, why would they lie they have no reason to lie, they do an estimate and then transfer that to their computer that then tells them how long it will take, the parts required the paint amount and they then call the parts department for the parts prices. They are a ford bodyshop so they will be the best guys to get the best job, they have trained technicians who are experts when it comes to your car.

The clue in needing new brackets is that there will be a requirement for rivets, rivets and plastic = broken brackets when you try to remove them.

Is your price with vat?


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

moosh said:


> they are telling you the truth I'm afraid, why would they lie they have no reason to lie, they do an estimate and then transfer that to their computer that then tells them how long it will take, the parts required the paint amount and they then call the parts department for the parts prices. They are a ford bodyshop so they will be the best guys to get the best job, they have trained technicians who are experts when it comes to your car.
> 
> The clue in needing new brackets is that there will be a requirement for rivets, rivets and plastic = broken brackets when you try to remove them.
> 
> Is your price with vat?


yes it is inc vat. and i see ur point with their price. i guess that like u say as its a ford, their sprayers would be most experienced.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

cossierick said:


> The side brackets are a pain to be honest, they dont break there held to the bumper with the rivets, so when you drill the rivets out to remove them from the old bumper to the new somtimes the heat from drilling the rivets out will melt the plastic and make the hole bigget so the new rivets dont fit !!
> 
> Weve done loads and im sure there only £20ish, but like you say two of them then the rivets etc etc it all ads up.
> 
> ...


thanks, i will shop about but as i want the best possible match i think im gunna have to save some extra pennies and send it to ford


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## cossierick (Jan 19, 2011)

moosh said:


> they are telling you the truth I'm afraid, why would they lie they have no reason to lie, they do an estimate and then transfer that to their computer that then tells them how long it will take, the parts required the paint amount and they then call the parts department for the parts prices. They are a ford bodyshop so they will be the best guys to get the best job, they have trained technicians who are experts when it comes to your car.
> 
> The clue in needing new brackets is that there will be a requirement for rivets, rivets and plastic = broken brackets when you try to remove them.
> 
> Is your price with vat?


Please dont think that as its a main dealer bodyshop the quality will be brilliant, they employ the same people as anyone else, theres no special training. Some of the big shops turn out worse work than the smaller companys.

rick


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

cossierick said:


> Please dont think that as its a main dealer bodyshop the quality will be brilliant, they employ the same people as anyone else, theres no special training. Some of the big shops turn out worse work than the smaller companys.
> 
> rick


I agree with you to an extent as I worked along such rough creatures which was the reason I left the trade. With going to a main dealer bodyshop your paintwork and anti corrosion warrenty will be covered and protected and you have the fall back if anything goes wrong you can contact the manufacturer direct and they will make the main dealer react. Most shops now have all staff trained and have been forced by insurance companies etc to ensure everyone has training.

I worked for a fiat & alfa main dealer then moved on to Toyota then on to merc where I was a master tech (panel beater & painter) I got fed up that there was no where higher I could go so I left and went on to college to do engineering.


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

Any pics of the damage ?


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## cbr6fs (Aug 15, 2011)

cossierick said:


> Please dont think that as its a main dealer bodyshop the quality will be brilliant, they employ the same people as anyone else, theres no special training. Some of the big shops turn out worse work than the smaller companys.
> 
> rick


+1

Also worth considering that very few main dealers will have a bodyshop, the vast vast majority will simply farm out the work, pay the bodyshop then add at least 20% to your bill.

Had a guy go to a mates shop for a quote, my mate quoted him what he felt was a fair price.
Few days later he gets a call from a main dealer asking for a quote for some work.
My mate says he needs to see the car, the dealer said they couldn't spare anyone to bring it round and to just give them a rough "worst case scenario quote".

So obviously covering his **** he quotes a figure that will see the entire section of car replaced, repaired and painted.

Few hours later he gets a call back from the dealer saying ok and when can he do it.

They deliver the car a few days later and bugger me if it wasn't the car from the quote.
My mate had quoted over 3x his face to face quote and STILL the owner paid over the odds to get his car repaired by the exact same guy :doublesho


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

cbr6fs said:


> +1
> 
> Also worth considering that very few main dealers will have a bodyshop, the vast vast majority will simply farm out the work, pay the bodyshop then add at least 20% to your bill.
> 
> ...


i too thought they may ship it out so a friend recommended lifestyle ford in tonbridge wells. they are the only southern ford with their own accident repair on site so it is a main dealer repairer. cheers for the warning tho


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

craigeh123 said:


> Any pics of the damage ?


ill post some soon.
generally the bumper is ok. although the bumper hasnt moved, as its plastic the impact had pushed part of it onto the reinforcement bar that sits behind. so ive now got a foot long impression of the bar visible through the bumper. not sticking out just the shape is visible. its pretty flimsy plastic so i dont want it heated up played about with and filled. hence why im going for a new bumper


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

You dont have to have anything bodged to do the job correct 


take the bumper off work with some heat and get it back to the closest shape ...small skim and its ready for blending 


blending paint within the bumper and the repair ...all in may not cost you much more than the price you will pay for a new bumper ...

you would be surprised on how good and g/teed job it can come out 


have a serious think about it


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## MK1Campaign (Mar 27, 2007)

deegan1979 said:


> ill post some soon.
> generally the bumper is ok. although the bumper hasnt moved, as its plastic the impact had pushed part of it onto the reinforcement bar that sits behind. so ive now got a foot long impression of the bar visible through the bumper. not sticking out just the shape is visible. its pretty flimsy plastic so i dont want it heated up played about with and filled. hence why im going for a new bumper


From your description the bumper doesnt need replacing. The skin needs pulling away from the bar then sanding flat. It may not even need filling. If the new base colour can be kept away from the bumper ends you'll have no colour problems either.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

mr paint said:


> You dont have to have anything bodged to do the job correct
> 
> take the bumper off work with some heat and get it back to the closest shape ...small skim and its ready for blending
> 
> ...


Would this be like a smart repair? Never been too keen on those repair on your doorstep types, to me painting outside is not right for a really good finish, but then again I'm clueless there might be some great ones out there


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

MK1Campaign said:


> From your description the bumper doesnt need replacing. The skin needs pulling away from the bar then sanding flat. It may not even need filling. If the new base colour can be kept away from the bumper ends you'll have no colour problems either.


The guy at the local bodyshop said he 'might' be able to repair it with heat and there's an area where it impacted that has cracked like a spiderweb not sure if it's just the paint or the plastic also. I said I wanted it how it was and he suggested I get a new bumper. I'll do my best to post a picture tmrw.
Do u mean it wouldn't need a full bumper respray then?


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## MK1Campaign (Mar 27, 2007)

deegan1979 said:


> The guy at the local bodyshop said he 'might' be able to repair it with heat and there's an area where it impacted that has cracked like a spiderweb not sure if it's just the paint or the plastic also. I said I wanted it how it was and he suggested I get a new bumper. I'll do my best to post a picture tmrw.
> Do u mean it wouldn't need a full bumper respray then?


The whole bumper would be lacquered but you'd only need to colour the repair area. If the base color can be kept away from the bumper ends you'll stand a much better chance of a good match.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

MK1Campaign said:


> The whole bumper would be lacquered but you'd only need to colour the repair area. If the base color can be kept away from the bumper ends you'll stand a much better chance of a good match.


Thanks, I'll speak to him about this. I was just worried as the bumper is so thin and flimsy I didn't want fillers. That's why I was Gunna get a new one, but it's looking so costly. If it could be repaired to a very high standard then it could be a go'er


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

Hey mate ,

yes smart repair but some places have a smart repair center thay can do it as a propper job but at a fraction of bodyshop prices 


tommy


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

I dunno what your excess is but at 1200 quid I'd be ringing my insurer and claiming . 
I had an accident that was my fault made a claim and was claimed against plus the others went for whiplash - my insurance went up by about 250 for the first year after . An avenue worth looking at if your excess isn't to bad and your no claims is protected


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Mick said he'd paint this bumper for £3-350 and get the colour matched perfectly.

The paint does NOT cost £300!! It's a fraction of that.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

MidlandsCarCare said:


> Mick said he'd paint this bumper for £3-350 and get the colour matched perfectly.
> 
> The paint does NOT cost £300!! It's a fraction of that.


thanks for taking the time to find that out, where is your friend mick based?
u might get a call to detail a couple of focus st's soon. 2 members on my car forum asked about a good place to get a winter detail up your way so i touted u to them, hope u get the work


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

mr paint said:


> Hey mate ,
> 
> yes smart repair but some places have a smart repair center thay can do it as a propper job but at a fraction of bodyshop prices
> 
> tommy


thanks, i found a place like this near to me, had a search about and have only found good remarks, so may try to get up there this weekend to speak to them


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

craigeh123 said:


> I dunno what your excess is but at 1200 quid I'd be ringing my insurer and claiming .
> I had an accident that was my fault made a claim and was claimed against plus the others went for whiplash - my insurance went up by about 250 for the first year after . An avenue worth looking at if your excess isn't to bad and your no claims is protected


its the wifes car and shes only 25 so claiming would be a last resort, am going to explore a few other options before giving ford all that money. thanks tho


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## toddy23 (Jun 16, 2012)

i do jobs on the side at home and did this colour the other week,i got my paint from a place called car world which is part of vw and the good thing was it was solvent based and the even better thing it was just a 2 stage (just the base and clear and the even better thing was it was a better match than the original,,,,the paint was mixed up for me and was holts but halfords also do holts solvent paint,the paint cost me £16 for 1/3 which i thinned down at 2-1 any one who has done this in waterbased paint will tell you its a pain in the **** with how long it takes to to cover but the solvent covered easy in 2 coats but i put 4 on to be safe and like i said it was a better match than the original


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

depends on what water based your using tbh 

on my system its a 3 stage 

white primer/ground 
orange colour 
xirralic mix (pearl)
then clear 

should be done over larger area to achive invisable blend ...usually lose it on the corner then clear to the edge 


tommy


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

toddy23 said:


> i do jobs on the side at home and did this colour the other week,i got my paint from a place called car world which is part of vw and the good thing was it was solvent based and the even better thing it was just a 2 stage (just the base and clear and the even better thing was it was a better match than the original,,,,the paint was mixed up for me and was holts but halfords also do holts solvent paint,the paint cost me £16 for 1/3 which i thinned down at 2-1 any one who has done this in waterbased paint will tell you its a pain in the **** with how long it takes to to cover but the solvent covered easy in 2 coats but i put 4 on to be safe and like i said it was a better match than the original


where are u based mate? im in the south east


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

Yeah at 25 on an st I'd be avoiding making any claims to ! I hope you get this sorted 
Out of interest what smart repairer was recomended to you ( I work in Sevenoaks so sort of near you )


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

mr paint said:


> depends on what water based your using tbh
> 
> on my system its a 3 stage
> 
> ...


And on my w/b system it's a normal (though low hiding) 2 stage.
Different systems = different solutions. 
Personally I'm not at ease putting the pearl coat on in a 3 stage .... you can't see it going on and one coat too few or too many makes all the difference.

(This white primer/ground malarkey .... is this really correct? Personally I'd rather use a V light grey on a mid toned low hider)


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## toddy23 (Jun 16, 2012)

im in north west cumbria,when i do it in water 3 stage i put orange primer downs 1st not white like i said our scemes are poor coverage thats why i use the orange primer,the 2 stage solvent is a winner its about time water was made 2 stage,we have 2 scemes at work and usely on 3 stage paints sometimes i can go to one of the scemes and one will be 3 stage and the other is sometimes 2 but not in the electric orange


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

interesting to see it can be done as a 2 stage ! does that make it way cheaper ?


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

deegan1979 said:


> thanks for taking the time to find that out, where is your friend mick based?
> u might get a call to detail a couple of focus st's soon. 2 members on my car forum asked about a good place to get a winter detail up your way so i touted u to them, hope u get the work


He's based near me in Bilston.

Thank you for the referrals btw, massively appreciated 

Russ.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

craigeh123 said:


> Yeah at 25 on an st I'd be avoiding making any claims to ! I hope you get this sorted
> Out of interest what smart repairer was recomended to you ( I work in Sevenoaks so sort of near you )


hi mate, yes trying to avoid a claim as also the st is very heavily modified, only 1 specialist insurer would cover her. autosmart is the name of the firm, didnt manage to get there yesterday unfortunatly. spoke over the phone and they want to see the car in their unit so thats next weekends job. just about to go wake the guy up at 8 am as i want my first payment today. so u are in sevenoaks, are u a painter?


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

squiggs said:


> And on my w/b system it's a normal (though low hiding) 2 stage.
> Different systems = different solutions.
> Personally I'm not at ease putting the pearl coat on in a 3 stage .... you can't see it going on and one coat too few or too many makes all the difference.
> 
> (This white primer/ground malarkey .... is this really correct? Personally I'd rather use a V light grey on a mid toned low hider)


u are not too far from me either, have u done this colour before? could pop over for u to quote me one day


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

toddy23 said:


> im in north west cumbria,when i do it in water 3 stage i put orange primer downs 1st not white like i said our scemes are poor coverage thats why i use the orange primer,the 2 stage solvent is a winner its about time water was made 2 stage,we have 2 scemes at work and usely on 3 stage paints sometimes i can go to one of the scemes and one will be 3 stage and the other is sometimes 2 but not in the electric orange


shame u are so far from me, sounds like u know ur stuff mate


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

MidlandsCarCare said:


> He's based near me in Bilston.
> 
> Thank you for the referrals btw, massively appreciated
> 
> Russ.


no worries russ, again shame u are so far from me, from the threads of your work i keep seeing, i would offer myself up to be your personal tea maker, sweeper and general b##ch just to get to watch and learn from u, as im still finding this detailing and machine polishing quite hard to get right


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

no mate im a mechanic , i know painters but not that id be happy to let do a 3 stage pealr unless they were painting the whole car lol


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

also whats been done to the st ? i love them they are bonkers ! i worked at fords when the mk1 rs and then those came out , didnt get to work on many sadly


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## toddy23 (Jun 16, 2012)

listen it doesnt matter if its 2 or 3 stage with the 3 stage the most important thing is to make sure the primer is covered with the 1st layer basecoat(orange)then couple of coats of pearl then the clear,so all you are really doing is one extra colour but like i say this MUST cover the primer the scemes i use at work are usely the red shade but like ive already said the solvent 2 stage is the best match i have used
this is at home
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/toddydal/001.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/toddydal/007.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/toddydal/IMG_0045.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/toddydal/IMG_0051.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/toddydal/IMG_0052.jpg
not the best pics tho but these are the 3 stage from last year i didnt take any pics from the recent 2 stage i did few weeks ago


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

craigeh123 said:


> also whats been done to the st ? i love them they are bonkers ! i worked at fords when the mk1 rs and then those came out , didnt get to work on many sadly


lol ok here goes just some mods, full dreamscience exhaust system from turbo back including a 100 cell race cat. uprated intercooler and radiator, dreamscience cold air induction system, uprated forge recirc valve and forge actuator, uprated inlet plenum, plugs and leads, ipd digital boost solenoid, dreamscience modX remap, rs injectors and rs clutch and flywheel, rs oil cooler. thats as far as we are going as these engines have a habit of going bang around the 350 bhp mark. plus its the wifes daily driver, happy with it for now tho, put the frighteners up new rs drivers


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

toddy23 said:


> listen it doesnt matter if its 2 or 3 stage with the 3 stage the most important thing is to make sure the primer is covered with the 1st layer basecoat(orange)then couple of coats of pearl then the clear,so all you are really doing is one extra colour but like i say this MUST cover the primer the scemes i use at work are usely the red shade but like ive already said the solvent 2 stage is the best match i have used
> this is at home
> http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/toddydal/001.jpg
> http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/toddydal/007.jpg
> ...


Really good work there mate !


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

deegan1979 said:


> lol ok here goes just some mods, full dreamscience exhaust system from turbo back including a 100 cell race cat. uprated intercooler and radiator, dreamscience cold air induction system, uprated forge recirc valve and forge actuator, uprated inlet plenum, plugs and leads, ipd digital boost solenoid, dreamscience modX remap, rs injectors and rs clutch and flywheel, rs oil cooler. thats as far as we are going as these engines have a habit of going bang around the 350 bhp mark. plus its the wifes daily driver, happy with it for now tho, put the frighteners up new rs drivers


Sounds bloody awesome ! Bet there's not a lot for the money that would keep up


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

craigeh123 said:


> Sounds bloody awesome ! Bet there's not a lot for the money that would keep up


to be honest its still just a focus. 0-30 is poor as it weighs a lot and is torque limited in 1st and 2nd. my friend has a new rs and off the mark he gets me but soon as i get to 30 im off, hes very gutted about that but he spent all he had buying it so im safe for now


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

Lol what do the mk2 rs's make then ? Clearly not the 350 yours is running


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

ive never had mine rolling roaded but going on others results with similar mods id hope to have at least 320- 340. the rs's are supposed to be 300 as std but loads have been tested at 280 - 285 in fast ford . gutting if ur spending all that money


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

Yeah I'd be a bit pissed off if it was 25 bhp down ! I had a blade I had dynoed at 118 bhp with manufaturer claiming 125 and that was 12 years old !


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

craigeh123 said:


> Yeah I'd be a bit pissed off if it was 25 bhp down ! I had a blade I had dynoed at 118 bhp with manufaturer claiming 125 and that was 12 years old !


I likes a blade, I've got a 59 plate castrol ltd edition (johnny Rae) replica. 
I see ur down sittingbourne, do u know if the old speedway track at Iwade is still goin? it's where I first learnt to ride


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

My bad, 61 plate, the duke I got rid of was the 59 plate, damn fosters!


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

I had a 95 urban tiger I loved it to bits but sold it 3.5 years when my boy came along got a race supermoto to convert for road but it just sat so that got sold to when I needed some cash , I planned to get another after missing it so much but my Mrs coerced me into another baby 18 months ago so it will be a while away now ! I've been road riding since 16 I had my blade at 24 used to get looked at like I'd nicked it when I took my lid off ! 

Yeah I work in Sevenoaks live in sittingbourne , I've lived in sittingbourne 6 years but still 
Haven't been to the speedway ! I'm only 30 now so loads of time for toys again ! Sooner hopefully rather than later !


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Nice to meet another biker, haven't used mine lately as likewise I now have a 10 month old girlie. The duke I mentioned was a supermoto, it was the 1198 evo xp, but it was stupidly too powerfully as a supermoto, couldn't get on with it and fell in love with this.
But this could be going if I don't get much use out of it. I love my bikes but since having my daughter my attitudes changing a bit.


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

That's exactly what happened to me he came along and bam it was in biketrader , my wife told me I'd regret it sure enough I did . The motard that replaced it was a husky built for racing and I like a project , I forgot my then 6 month old son now took up my prjects time then it just sat there . I had a brief go on it it was far far to mad for the road it had everything done to it , hm race lump flatslide carb etc etc lethal !


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## Crystal.Bunn (Sep 22, 2012)

My dad has a MK2 Focus RS, Totally standard, had it from new in 2010, only covered about 2000 miles since then, its not as quick as my partners old 300zx TT which was rolling roaded at 384.9 bhp, but at the same time, its not much difference between them. The Z would pull a couple of inches over every 200m approx distance.

So I would say the FRS is definately pushing at least 300bhp, it is considerably lighter weight, and probably has less torque due to the displacement (But im not sure for definate)


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

what colours he gOt crstal bunn ? They look mental


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

Had a chat with another painter I know today who also admitted that orange is a bugger to do , he said lechler apparently have a good match


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Crystal.Bunn said:


> My dad has a MK2 Focus RS, Totally standard, had it from new in 2010, only covered about 2000 miles since then, its not as quick as my partners old 300zx TT which was rolling roaded at 384.9 bhp, but at the same time, its not much difference between them. The Z would pull a couple of inches over every 200m approx distance.
> 
> So I would say the FRS is definately pushing at least 300bhp, it is considerably lighter weight, and probably has less torque due to the displacement (But im not sure for definate)


i do like em to look at but itd have to be green for me.
fast ford did a rolling road day / writeup with the rs and st owners club and quite a few (not all) of the std rs's fell quite short of the 300bhp mark. not saying atall that ur dads doesnt hit 300 tho, seems to be hit and miss


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

craigeh123 said:


> Had a chat with another painter I know today who also admitted that orange is a bugger to do , he said lechler apparently have a good match


cool thanks for that. did he say if thats water or solvent based?


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## e30sport32 (Jun 23, 2010)

Hi mate if it helps we have a nexa auto color water based scheme at work there are a couple of formulas on there for this color which are not 3 stage just a normal single stage mix, I've used it a few times not a bad match, ive always blended adjacent panels though not sure I'd go edge to edge, as said before the bumpers on these are never perfect match from new, 

If you have a body shop close with nexa or a paint factor that stocks it they could mix you some maybe a few quid though,

Hope this helps.


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

Water based I think , he said with the 3 stage as you add more pearl it goes darker one bit to little or to much and its out !


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## toddy23 (Jun 16, 2012)

ive never had a problem with this colour,but what you can do is get 3 test cards and base them all up in the orange,then coat one card with one coat of pearl,the other with 2 coats and the last one with 3,then clear coat the test cards and see which matches the best,its like i keep saying the first base layer is very important coz if the primer isnt covered then its gona be 100% off colour as the pearl layer is very transparent and isnt for covering


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

e30sport32 said:


> Hi mate if it helps we have a nexa auto color water based scheme at work there are a couple of formulas on there for this color which are not 3 stage just a normal single stage mix, I've used it a few times not a bad match, ive always blended adjacent panels though not sure I'd go edge to edge, as said before the bumpers on these are never perfect match from new,
> 
> If you have a body shop close with nexa or a paint factor that stocks it they could mix you some maybe a few quid though,
> 
> Hope this helps.


thanks mate thats very helpful, ill be asking my local painter about it


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## e30sport32 (Jun 23, 2010)

No problem mate hope you get it sorted those 3 stage pearls are a pain in the butt, I re sprayed an orange st a couple of years ago the car had been keyed every panel even the bumpers now that was a long job I can tell ya, before we had the nexa installed so had to 3 stage it in sikkens,

amazing how one paint company can formulate a color in 3 stage and another can make it single stage


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## toddy23 (Jun 16, 2012)

this is a job at home this morning its kawasaki wildfire orange pearl 3 stage in water
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/toddydal/IMG_0121_zpsf092ebd2.jpg
this is primer
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/toddydal/IMG_0123_zpsa8ec1ef8.jpg
this is 1st layer orange basecoat
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/toddydal/IMG_0125_zps4228969a.jpg
this is 2nd layer basecoat(pearl)
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/toddydal/IMG_0127_zpsffd3e0ae.jpg
both paints
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/toddydal/IMG_0129_zps7d94a4f0.jpg
clearcoat
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/toddydal/IMG_0133_zps827a9fd7.jpg
clearcoat
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/toddydal/IMG_0134_zpsc84ecccf.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/toddydal/IMG_0136_zps4559ceab.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/toddydal/IMG_0137_zpsec0484f0.jpg
like i said this is at home no spraybooths and no polishing


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