# Expensive Stuff!!!



## tony2 (Jan 31, 2010)

Ok a bit of a useless post this, but im just curious,

There's a guy in the personal sales section selling some Zymol Atlantique for £240 now im not questioning HIS price, Far from it iv got no idea about this stuff so dont know the value of that particular item, This isnt the first time iv seen such expensive waxes (Or whatever they are) i saw some stuff for over £1000!!!!!

Now i am well aware that with every product there is a top of the line range that can seem astronomically expensive until you look into it and see where the extra money goes, Which brings me to my inevitable question 'whats this stuff for and 'whats the difference?'

Please no comments of 'its all the same' or 'its just a fancy name' im just interested in people that have used these product and will educate me about some i know nothing.


Many thanks 



Ant


Ps - Iv posted here because i didnt want to hijack that thread as many people have all ready posted about the cost which i think is wrong.


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## Strothow (Oct 29, 2009)

http://www.vertar.com/zymol/zymol-royale-glaze/


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## Robbie.M (Feb 10, 2010)

I've just looked at some wax that was £8146,now thats expensive!!!!
thats the stuff.....made for the bugatti royale... wonder what it smells like?


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## tony2 (Jan 31, 2010)

Robbie.M said:


> I've just looked at some wax that was £8146,now thats expensive!!!!
> thats the stuff.....made for the bugatti royale... wonder what it smells like?


Wow - See i dont know S##t :tumbleweed:

So is that specially made for that car then?

If its for a 250k Plus car then i can understand its all relative

Is it worth it??


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## Aero (Feb 13, 2007)

This sort of thing comes up so often. Is a Ferrari worth £100K+?

Oh and by the way Zymol Solaris was £40K, 25 made and all sold.


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## tony2 (Jan 31, 2010)

Aero said:


> This sort of thing comes up so often. *Is a Ferrari worth £100K*+?
> 
> Oh and by the way *Zymol Solaris was £40K*, 25 made and all sold.


OMG:doublesho

And i understand the worth of a ferrari!

This i dont understand hence the post


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## Robbie.M (Feb 10, 2010)

40 grand!!!... OMG


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## ajmanby (Jan 12, 2010)

free refills for life, think i would scoop the lot out, flog it and get another free refill, once a week should make your money back in no time lol


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## tony2 (Jan 31, 2010)

ajmanby said:


> free refills for life, think i would scoop the lot out, flog it and get another free refill, once a week should make your money back in no time lol


Group Buy Anyone? lol


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## Taffyopel (Feb 1, 2010)

:lol: Love the first reply. 'I applied this to my 1993 Golf'! :lol:

He drives a 17 old VW and spent £8,000 on wax! :wall:

Paul.


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## tony2 (Jan 31, 2010)

Taffyopel said:


> :lol: Love the first reply. 'I applied this to my 1993 Golf'! :lol:
> 
> He drives a 17 old VW and spent £8,000 on wax! :wall:
> 
> Paul.


I Cant see a reply where someone says that?? Is something wrong?


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

tony2 said:


> I Cant see a reply where someone says that?? Is something wrong?


within the reviews :thumb:


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## Strothow (Oct 29, 2009)

Taffyopel said:


> :lol: Love the first reply. 'I applied this to my 1993 Golf'! :lol:
> 
> He drives a 17 old VW and spent £8,000 on wax! :wall:
> 
> Paul.


I had a chuckle at this too :lol:


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## Matt197 (Dec 27, 2006)

8k :doublesho /drops to the floor

And I think spending £50 on a wax is alot :lol:


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## chunkytfg (Feb 1, 2009)

Matt197 said:


> 8k :doublesho /drops to the floor
> 
> And I think spending £50 on a wax is alot :lol:


Give it time and £50 will the the minimum you spend on wax!:thumb::lol:


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

it's all about "abundance"

if Ferrari pumped out Enzos at the rate Ford pumps out Fiestas, they'd be cheap as chips too! Similar applies for wax. (and anything else in the world). Let's take Gold and Water. We have an abundance of water, so costs a matter of pence, Gold on the other hand isn't as abundant!

Make something rare, and you can charge what you like!


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

ajmanby said:


> free refills for life, think i would scoop the lot out, flog it and get another free refill, once a week should make your money back in no time lol


Don't you pay something daft like £400 for a "free refil" which apparently covers the shipping and insurance costs?


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

-Mat- said:


> it's all about "abundance"
> 
> if Ferrari pumped out Enzos at the rate Ford pumps out Fiestas, they'd be cheap as chips too! Similar applies for wax. (and anything else in the world). Let's take Gold and Water. We have an abundance of water, so costs a matter of pence, Gold on the other hand isn't as abundant!
> 
> Make something rare, and you can charge what you like!


Not too sure about that - they *could* make as much of that wax as they wanted. I think it's far more to do with sales/marketing than it is to do with abundance, in this case.


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

nah..... 

I believe it's due to abundance/availibilty


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## tossi (Sep 22, 2009)

-Mat- said:


> it's all about "abundance"
> 
> if Ferrari pumped out Enzos at the rate Ford pumps out Fiestas, they'd be cheap as chips too! Similar applies for wax. (and anything else in the world). Let's take Gold and Water. We have an abundance of water, so costs a matter of pence, Gold on the other hand isn't as abundant!
> 
> Make something rare, and you can charge what you like!


I don't agree, something is just more expensive to make then other, that is just life, if Ferrari made the same amounts of Enzos as Ford makes Fiestas the price would still be high, might be lower than it is now, but there is i significant difference in the materials that are used.

But you are right to a point, something's are made expensive to make them exclusive, but in most cases with luxury products it is because some exotic material has been chosen, whether it is a watch, a car, a bike.....etc. The company I work makes stereo systems between 13000£ up to +150000£ in the case of the system for 150000£ the materials choices and everything else is made to be the best and most exotic hence the price and people expect that from at luxury product, they expect something that all there friends don't have. We could make it cheaper it the wood panels was painted in China, instead of by Steinway and Sons and by not using 24K gold etc. http://www.steinwaylyngdorf.com/Model_D-45.aspx But then it is not so exclusive anymore.

But if wax can uphold a price of 8000£, for that I'm not sure, most of it is most likely due to some smart marketing


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

but whp's to decided what is exotic/valuable.... it's been drilled into us that Gold is VERY valuable.... Who decided that one day? Why did they not decided that Coal, Limestone or Sand was valuable? It's all human....

What one person might class as "luxury" another might class as "cheap". Look at Man City's Player Steven Ireland (think that's his name)


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

-Mat- said:


> nah.....
> 
> I believe it's due to abundance/availibilty


You don't think they could make as much of that "special" wax as they wanted?


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

well, in theory, both Zymol and Rubbish boys use Carnauba wax from Brazil. Assume the price for this is the same (or similar) regardless of who you are....... 

Also, there is only a certain volume of wax you can use to make it spreadable as in it's 100% natural form, it's like concrete. So what different ingrediants are Zymol using compared to Dodo Juice etc to justify a £8k tag


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## TomW (Jun 29, 2009)

-Mat- said:


> but whp's to decided what is exotic/valuable.... it's been drilled into us that Gold is VERY valuable.... Who decided that one day? Why did they not decided that Coal, Limestone or Sand was valuable? It's all human....
> 
> What one person might class as "luxury" another might class as "cheap". Look at Man City's Player Steven Ireland (think that's his name)


In the case of gold though, (and other such things: diamonds etc) the price is about scarcity/demand (oooh look, it's nice a shiny) and to a degree cost of extraction.

As to the OP's original question: are such waxes (or any expensive 'things') actually "worth" it?

Clearly to people who have the money, they are worth it. You have to remember there are people out there with ALOT of money. Even people to whom £FORTY THOUSAND for a wax is nothing.

To us mere mortals, the diference in the finish on the car or how long it lasts, wouldn't be 'worth' it because we can't afford 40k for a wax.

But if people can afford it - they can spend it how they see fit and they will think it's 'worth' it. I.e. it's worth it to them.


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## tossi (Sep 22, 2009)

-Mat- said:


> but whp's to decided what is exotic/valuable.... it's been drilled into us that Gold is VERY valuable.... Who decided that one day? Why did they not decided that Coal, Limestone or Sand was valuable? It's all human....
> 
> What one person might class as "luxury" another might class as "cheap". Look at Man City's Player Steven Ireland (think that's his name)


If everyone to go out to there back yard and pick up some gold then it wouldnt be exotic/valuable anymore.

But i dont see who that affect a wax that every one with 8000£ can buy that is made exotic by the price


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

anyway, keeping on topic.... is it worth it? hard to say... Personally I'd say no

Would I buy it I won the lottery? YES! (just to say I have it )


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

-Mat- said:


> well, in theory, both Zymol and Rubbish boys use Carnauba wax from Brazil. Assume the price for this is the same (or similar) regardless of who you are.......
> 
> Also, there is only a certain volume of wax you can use to make it spreadable as in it's 100% natural form, it's like concrete. So what different ingrediants are Zymol using compared to Dodo Juice etc to justify a £8k tag


I would imagine the ingredients/forumlations for most Carnauba based waxes only differ by the odd percentage. However, brand perception is clearly something else. Two bottles of white wine with their labels removed, one worth £10 one worth £10000 - how many people would guess correctly from a blind test


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2010)

I was speaking to someone the other day over my shock of s wax at £8000. However in the long term the cost isn't as much as it seems. Remember it £8000 for a wax that will be refilledfor free for the rest of you life.

Say you buy a pot at the age of 30 for £8000. Then say you drive for the next 35 years. Well you will never have to by a pot of wax ever again.

8000/35 = £225 a year. Still expensive for a hobbyist but if I had a business it's something I might think about. After all it would be the most prestigious wax out there and some top end customers would want the kudos.

I'm sticking will opti-seal and collinite 476s though!
Regards


Ben


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## Strothow (Oct 29, 2009)

> Say you buy a pot at the age of 30 for £8000. Then say you drive for the next 35 years. Well you will never have to by a pot of wax ever again.


£8k, could get you over 320 tins of colly, thats quite alot of wax!!??


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

Fujitsum said:


> £8k, could get you over 320 tins of colly, thats quite alot of wax!!??


Exactly! I've had my colly for at least 5yrs now and I've still got over half a pot left.


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2010)

willj said:


> Exactly! I've had my colly for at least 5yrs now and I've still got over half a pot left.


I fully agree with you. I'm sticking with 476s. I'm just saying there are people out there who want top pay top wack for stufff. The £8000 wax seems off the scale untill you consider it over a long period of time when the lifetime refills brings it back into a more normalish price range for a top end wax


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Lets face it, like anything that is 'designer' some waxes will be set at a price for the kudos of it rather than because it's contents are ten times better than a wax a tenth of the price. 

I'm not saying these mega pricey waxes aren't brilliant, I'm sure they are amazing products but you can't tell me that, that wax at £8k has cost £8k to make? 

If I'm wrong then please let me know but I'd find that hard to believe. Like with a lot of things, you buy a pair of jeans from Next or you buy a pair of Gucci jeans. Yeah the Gucci ones may be a bit better made but the price is such because of the label too. 

I'd imagine that the following factors have influence on the price - 

1. Quality - It'll be sh!t hot stuff no doubt
2. Label - It'll be expensive because of who it's made by
3. Exclusivity - People will pay a lot partly to be able to say they used an £8k wax and because it was £8k it MUST be better than anything cheaper
4. Low Production - Obvious developing anything and only selling small numbers means the cost af producing it is higher.

That's just my interpretation on it, I just know from a friend of mine who supplies some detailing gear, some of which is highly regarded on here have (and used by me too) some big marks ups from cost price to RRP too.


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## K1CERB (Dec 10, 2009)

I had a similar (Smaller) debate with myself recently :speechles. I have had a pot of Zymol Ital for about 5 years, which cost in the region of £80-90. I apply this about 3 times a year, I love the smell and the result - in effect, it made me 'Happy'. 
I recently used the last of the pot, and had to think long & hard - do I replace it with a similar priced product, or a similar grade of product which is now in the region of £160? In the end I went for the £160 product mainly because it makes me happy & I can afford it. 
As was said above, if I could afford one of those nice £150k Stereos and had a Bugatti and £8k equated to a nice night out - Sure it is worth the money.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

ajmanby said:


> free refills for life, think i would scoop the lot out, flog it and get another free refill, once a week should make your money back in no time lol


I think Zymol would find out what you were up to VERY quickly:lol:


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

I was chatting to the guys at work on this and did a bit of maths. 

I worked out that buying the £65 pot of Supernatural to use on my Megane, price wise is the equivalent of paying £16k for a pot of wax if you own a £1m Veyron!! lol 

So actually on a scale of things, I'm spending too much haha.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

plus, as we all know, wax does nothing to enhance the looks of the car...

It's all in the prep and polish of the paint!


:thumb:


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> plus, as we all know, wax does nothing to enhance the looks of the car...
> 
> It's all in the prep and polish of the paint!
> 
> :thumb:


agreed


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## Rickyboy (Oct 14, 2008)

I wonder how open to suggestions Zymol would be if someone was to approach them about a wax test for Solaris versus the likes of Collinite, Vics Conc, Megs 16 etc etc.

Anybody on here ever had the pleasure of working with it?


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

do they not appear in the wax test that one of the pros did on a big tour bus/camper van thing


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## Rickyboy (Oct 14, 2008)

-Mat- said:


> do they not appear in the wax test that one of the pros did on a big tour bus/camper van thing


I'm sure Vinate and Royale do but as for Solaris I don't think so.


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## Aero (Feb 13, 2007)

-Mat- said:


> do they not appear in the wax test that one of the pros did on a big tour bus/camper van thing


Do you mean this thread?

I don't ever recall seeing Solaris being reviewed on here.


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## tony2 (Jan 31, 2010)

Wow this thread got big!!

I still havnt heard a proper argument for the extra cost only reason as to why its sold before and still selling, As i said earlier its all relative if you compare a 1million pound car with 40k wax to a 10grand car with 12pound wax it makes sense however compared to an enzo (as said before) there are more expensive materials and engineering that goes into that car (there is no carbon fibre on a fiesta) however there doesnt seem to be much difference in materials ( i might be wrong) 

Also one question if a very rich and lucky and lucky man has a million pound classic bugatti and waxes it with his 8k wax will he ever need to do it again? Most of these cars will never leave the garage so why has he bothered? But once again its relative! If hes got 1million in his garage then i suppose wasting 8k on wax isn't a problem eh,

Anyway great answers guys i feel more educated now



Anthony


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

the only real reason behind buying a wax so expensive is its exclusivity - if only a certain amount have been produced, and also the pleasure someone will get from using it - the smell, the silk bag or wooden box it might come in etc. we all know it'll made (very) little or no difference to the looks as its in the prep


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## tony2 (Jan 31, 2010)

-Kev- said:


> the only real reason behind buying a wax so expensive is its exclusivity - if only a certain amount have been produced, and also the pleasure someone will get from using it - the smell, the silk bag or wooden box it might come in etc. we all know it'll made (very) little or no difference to the looks as its in the prep


So suppose the answer to my question 'is it worth it' Is NO, At least not to me anyway, I can buy a wooden box and a silk bag and that blokes Zymol Atlantique all in for 300quid and have the same feeling :thumb:

Lol but seriously i take your point its more than just engineering and content its the feeling and prestige that comes from such a high quality and rare product..

Ant


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

Aero said:


> This sort of thing comes up so often. Is a Ferrari worth £100K+?
> 
> Oh and by the way Zymol Solaris was £40K, 25 made and all sold.


you sure about that? i heard they hadnt sold any as of yet?


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## Aero (Feb 13, 2007)

ianFRST said:


> you sure about that? i heard they hadnt sold any as of yet?


Zymol US and UK websites say "sorry all units sold".


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Its worth it to the people who buy it even more so to a business


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

indeed.... I can only see the value you of it helping a business.... they have the "exclusivity" of saying they use Zymol Royale etc etc, thus making them sound more attractive to potential customers


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## tony2 (Jan 31, 2010)

james b said:


> Its worth it to the people who buy it even more so to a business


Can totally see the worth here ^

Dont think il pick up many new buildings with this on our advertising so il steer clear for now:thumb:


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

If you were using is for business purposes, you wouldnt use any other wax due to the free refill's...get your monies worth


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

Prism Detailing said:


> If you were using is for business purposes, you wouldnt use any other wax due to the free refill's...get your monies worth


"free" I consider every expense to be paid, you not having to give anything in return.

Unfortunately you have to pay around 400 quid IIRC in terms of insurance/postage etc


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

yup, as I mentioned in an earlier post.... not exactly a "free" refill


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## tony2 (Jan 31, 2010)

-Mat- said:


> yup, as I mentioned in an earlier post.... not exactly a "free" refill


Sounds to me like you give them 8k and then they generously give you a £7600 discount on your next order...Now the obvious question 'if they can give you a pot for £400 your being had over at 8k! no?

and to the post earlier that said if you break it down over thirty five years its only costing £250+ a year and thats not bad compared to other expensive waxes (£240+ a pot) but thats only taking into account the less expensive pot lasts only one year, which i presume it wouldn't

Ant


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

well their wording is that the £400 is covering post and insurance... How much the insurance actually costs them we'll never know... but relatively speaking, £400 would be nothing if you can afford to splash £8k on a wax


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## tony2 (Jan 31, 2010)

-Mat- said:


> well their wording is that the £400 is covering post and insurance... How much the insurance actually costs them we'll never know... but relatively speaking, *£400 would be nothing if you can afford to splash £8k on a wax*


Oh to live like that....................


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## Robbie.M (Feb 10, 2010)

its a different world for some....but if money were no object you'd have to get some and give it a try...well I would..


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## Mini 360 (Jul 17, 2009)

:lol: Loving all the BS reviews on the Vertar site regarding Zymol Royale Glaze haha!


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## chunkytfg (Feb 1, 2009)

Dont forget the free refills are for personal use only. Zymol IIRC have either a different price list if you want to use it as part of a business or dont offer the free refills.

EIther way using the Zymol brand and advertising the fact when you are not approved by them is a big no no


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

-Mat- said:


> well their wording is that the £400 is covering post and insurance...


Does that mean that if deliver the empty pot by hand yourself, they'll re-fill and you can collect it and the re-fill will be genuinely free??


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## Robbie.M (Feb 10, 2010)

haha good point Alex, bet it would never happen like that though..they'll get money out of you one way or another..


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Yeah I'm intrigued now, would love to turn up at their factory, case in hand and say 'Here for my FREE refill, I thought I'd deliver by hand to save on insurance and postage!'. 

Don't know if they could refuse really, if that's what they claim anyway.


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

Alex_225 said:


> Does that mean that if deliver the empty pot by hand yourself, they'll re-fill and you can collect it and the re-fill will be genuinely free??


yup. 100%

but it takes a couple of weeks, so you'd have to go back and collect it, rather than wait :lol: you can even drop it off, and have it posted back to the UK if you want

im gona send mine back soon, £120 to get to the US, and not sure on the cost back yet :doublesho :lol:


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## Robbie.M (Feb 10, 2010)

so you have some Ian...what does it smell like?..dont know why but I'm intruiged by it?..lol


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## Misha (Feb 13, 2010)

maybe couse it costs arm and a leg. i think most of the cost is for reason its free refils for life, they do have to factor it in.



Robbie.M said:


> I've just looked at some wax that was £8146,now thats expensive!!!!
> thats the stuff.....made for the bugatti royale... wonder what it smells like?


smells like regular wax. destiny smells like cherries. good enought to EAT. royal doesnt smell like anything just wax i guess. ill compare it to other waxes when i get home


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## Robbie.M (Feb 10, 2010)

cheers mischa..I thought it might be different for some reason..


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## Misha (Feb 13, 2010)

yeah, i dont know about blue one, i both mine are white(beige or whatever that color it), maybe that blue one that you see on pics could smell different
i thought if you pay that kind of money they at least make it smell good. at least it doesnt smell like migliore fruta, that thing smells awfull, they went over the board with sents


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## Robbie.M (Feb 10, 2010)

haha its not exactly cheap stuff, but if it smells just like wax, then it should only be wax in it..no extras needed I suppose..not smelt the fruta yet, not sure I want to now..haha


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## Misha (Feb 13, 2010)

^^yeah dont lol. it supposed to smell like oranges, well they put too much of that smell in that, had to trade that stuff to other person (it was traded to me), gona see how long its gona take other person to put it up for trade.


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## Robbie.M (Feb 10, 2010)

sounds like it will be doing the rounds..and not getting used much...


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## Misha (Feb 13, 2010)

yeah lol.


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## CPU (Sep 11, 2007)

I see it as similar to cars. If a mini will get you comfortably from A to B, then why pay silly money for a Ferrari to do the same job.

Because some people can afford it. Simplezzz.

Cheaper waxes may do the same thing but some people just want the best / Kudos and can afford to pay it.

Not a lot of point in discussing what Zymol costs, if you can't afford it don't buy it. 

I can't by the way. :lol:

Dodo and FK1000 for me. Well worth the money. :thumb:


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## Misha (Feb 13, 2010)

^^have you tried collonite 915? very durable and looks pretty good. most under $100 are good enough. 

95% of the look comes from prep (polishing and stuff). i fyou didnt prep it good, well no wax gona help you


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## Robbie.M (Feb 10, 2010)

I've just got some 915 mischa, looking forward to getting a day when i can use it.... and I agree without good prep no car is gonna look any good...cheers


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> plus, as we all know, wax does nothing to enhance the looks of the car...
> 
> It's all in the prep and polish of the paint!
> 
> :thumb:


I did intend staying out of this discussion tbh. but I've got to respond to that bit: I would say it's more accurate to say wax does very little to enhance the looks of a car...the vast majority is in the prep and polish.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being pedandtic for the sake of it (I think you'd know this anyway ), and I've long been an advocate of not placing too much emphasis on the wax's (or any LSP's) contribution to the final look. But some products do add a little something to the overall look. Granted sometimes it's barely noticable, and arguably highly subjective, but for the sake of the members reading this who are totally new to detailing, to say that it adds nothing at all isn't strictly correct. 

(btw. I did note the '' but even so, I thought a little clarification on this for the sake of the newbies was required.)


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## Misha (Feb 13, 2010)

well royale smells like poor boys wheel sealant, just no where nearly as strong. (thats the sent it reminded me off when i first smelled it)
was sitting smelling waxes lol. gotta go to work now. most smell like chemicals(915 and 476) lusso smells pretty good, petes 53 almost same as lusso oro, cg 50/50 like chemicals. DODO waxes, mmm id eat them, need to try how all of them are on my car and probably order regular pot probably of blue velvet, want to get ROBE


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

I got this from an IPA wipe, Zymol Cleaner Wax and then Britemax #6p wax.


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

I would like to know what Top Gear did with the pot of wax that Clarkson tried to eat


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

The bit with the bucket and the PW was hilarious :lol:


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

alan_mcc said:


> The bit with the bucket and the PW was hilarious :lol:


:lol: nearly took his fingers off :doublesho


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

does WAX really taste like POLISH?

I remember him telling James May polish does nothing.... Now we know why he thinks that. Jezza, like many others, get confused/mixed-up about polish and wax. Or usually they think they're the same thing lol


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## Misha (Feb 13, 2010)

they should have done destiny. at least it smells like cheries


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