# Can't seem to shift...



## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

The layer of visceral fat covering my abs... I've about got my diet down to a tee. Exercising 6 days a week and plenty of cardio... just can't seem to get rid of this and get abs sorted.

Any ideas?


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Diet diet diet.


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## jim55 (Nov 12, 2008)

^^^^ 
this :thumb:
so important re bodyfat


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Abs are made in the kitchen not the gym.


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## minimadgriff (Jul 8, 2007)

bigmc said:


> Abs are made in the kitchen not the gym.


Recipe?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

minimadgriff said:


> Recipe?


Get <10% body fat, everyone has a good set of abs, gym or not you just need the low bf ratio.


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

To be fair the diet is on track. Maybe just needs more time!


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

Most people keep adding more and more cardio but I think this is wrong. Cardio breaks down your body which isnt good and it only burns calories while your actually doing the exercise whereas weights increase your metabolism for up to 48 hours.

If you really like cadio I would do hardout HIT cardio for 16-20 mins.

Do you know in the era of Arnold noone ever did Cardio, its a modern fad.


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

You also need to think about genetics. Sometimes you're just not the type to get or see the abs. Very hard to get.


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## RedUntilDead (Feb 10, 2009)

Grommit said:


> You also need to think about genetics. Sometimes you're just not the type to get or see the abs. Very hard to get.


I am finding age to be a problem too. Pushing close to 40 now and my body is telling me it can't do what I want it to or what it used to be able to do. Hats off to the slightly older crew, its definitely easier when you are younger though.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

As your BF gets lower... you might need to make some tweaks to diet/training etc to push through a few plateaus. 

Make a tweak. Do it religiously for a month, should sort you out. From a now slightly fatter, ex 6-8% BF gym goer.


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## Christianmp (Apr 22, 2011)

Have you tried Intermittent Fasting, leangains-style? www.leangains.com

I've started it 2 weeks ago and I'm finding it to be a great way of "dieting".


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## luke997 (Jul 26, 2011)

Bod42 said:


> Cardio breaks down your body


Where did you hear that revelation and how exactly it happens? 



Bod42 said:


> Cardio (...) it only burns calories while your actually doing the exercise


Wrong again... It all depends what type/how long/how intense workout you do...

You can do high intensity tempo/tempo interval session which will burn you more calories during and after than any weights - but the thing is, during/after both glicogen to fat ratio will be rather high.

With cardio (long run or cycle) you can do lower intensity workout which will burn much less glicogen and more fat - which is exactly what you want.

Both weights and cardio have it's uses, and both should be part of healthy lifestyle. Cardio is certainly good in burning off the fat, not to mention other benefits.

I have a good example - though extreme - me.
Using Firstbeat Athlete I know that on my long run (2,5h) I can burn 2500-3000 calories (depending on how long/pace) with 50-70% being fat (depending on pace - faster, less fat, more glicogen). 
So that's up to ~2000-2100 calories - so roughly 300g of bodyfat used in one go in ideal condition (obviously a lot depends what's your existing bodyfat and glicogen stores). 
There is no easy way to burn that amount of fat (or anywhere near actually) with weights workout - including post workout increased metabolism. (In theory you could but this would take hours and this would actually break down your body so to speak).

P.S. I shall add I would not be able to sustaing above while injury free without doing core/weights training, so again both types of workouts are important in balanced and healthy lifestyle.


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

luke997 said:


> Where did you hear that revelation and how exactly it happens?
> 
> *There were some test done with portable MRI scans on long distance/endurance runners, they lost muscle mass in their legs, up until then everyone thought they would lose it on their upper body, apparently it was a bit of a revelation :thumb:*
> 
> ...


 :thumb::thumb:

As above :thumb:

All things being equal, the most muscular people I've ever seen (& I'm talking low levels of body fat & high levels of Vascularity not size) are those who use weights/or the equivalent machines as a huge part of their training/fitness regime. This doesn't include the group of people who already have a natural low body fat content.

I think it is incredibly hard to lose body fat below certain levels because the body naturally tries to hang onto it & we all react very differently to diet & training.
Loads of things work, loads of things don't, the minefield continues :thumb:

Disclosure: I havent a sodding clue what im talking about, i just say what i see :thumb:


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

Spoony said:


> The layer of visceral fat covering my abs... I've about got my diet down to a tee. Exercising 6 days a week and plenty of cardio... just can't seem to get rid of this and get abs sorted.
> 
> Any ideas?


I was reading some article on bodybuiding.com about how you change your approach to fat loss as you get to lower percentages :thumb:

Have a look spoons :thumb:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson175.htm

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kelly3.htm


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

RedUntilDead said:


> I am finding age to be a problem too. Pushing close to 40 now and my body is telling me it can't do what I want it to or what it used to be able to do. Hats off to the slightly older crew, its definitely easier when you are younger though.


Disagree, my progress/success in powerlifting has not been hindered by my age (43) in fact I'm doing as much as guys half my age & seem to be getting amazing results, in fact i think my age is helping, us older guys have the experience/character & we know we have to try harder. Dig in! :thumb::thumb:

I Will be deadlifting & squatting 200kg for 5 reps one day, bench press is at 115kg currently (not rushing this lift, I'll get what I get) 

The older you become the more relevant the clichés become; Nonsense & rhetoric I know but it works for me :thumb: 

Why do we fall over, so we can learn to pick ourselves up :thumb:

Succeed, because you're an old git 

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger! :devil:

The more you hate the weights, the more you'll grow to love them :argie:

Life, enjoy the ride :thumb:


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Diet and exercise helps a lot,I ahve been youring flat these past 3 weeks over 200 hours of hard and physical work which seems to be helping me get rid of my belly:thumb:


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## luke997 (Jul 26, 2011)

ITHAQVA said:


> There were some test done with portable MRI scans on long distance/endurance runners, they lost muscle mass in their legs, up until then everyone thought they would lose it on their upper body, apparently it was a bit of a revelation


Of course you'll loose muscle if you don't supply your body enough energy and don't have enough body fat. 
Exactly same thing will happen if you do the same with weight training.

No difference here between both, error is in approach, not in type of workout.



ITHAQVA said:


> So are you saying high intensity weights (Im talking about routines with Mixed single joint & multi joint HIT routines) won't burn loads of calories compared to cardio Hang on Better


If you read fully what I said:



luke997 said:


> (...)
> There is no easy way to burn that amount of fat (or anywhere near actually) with weights workout - including post workout increased metabolism. *(In theory you could but this would take hours and this would actually break down your body so to speak).*





ITHAQVA said:


> :thumb::thumb:
> 
> As above :thumb:
> 
> ...


I can see you like weights training and have natural bias toward it - that's ok, but do not misinterpret what I said - have a look at the post I replied to and my reply.
I just put into balance cardio and weights. Both are important and for majority both should be done.

I run ~100km per week but only in 4 days, other 3 I do core/weights, without running I wouldn't have 4-5% body fat and without core/weights I wouldn't be injury free and have good strength/posture and vascularity all round, so I understand importance of both.

I do not run competitively (anymore  ) and I don't body build, just want to be healthy, fit & strong.

That being said, you can have all above with doing specific weights only or with specific cardio only.
It is only my personal opinion that balance is better and for majority cardio will work better for fat loss & endurance while weights for muscle gains/strength - I just like being able to run fast/long while being physically strong and look reasonable at the same time.


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Thanks folks, I just need to be more strict and train harder essentially, I'll get back on it.

Ordered some body fat calipers to see how I fare at the moment. Going back to cutting out drink and carbs as much, looking forward to training hard again.


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

luke997 said:


> Where did you hear that revelation and how exactly it happens?
> 
> Wrong again... It all depends what type/how long/how intense workout you do...
> 
> ...


Long distant running puts your body in a catabolic state. This has been proven by science and is comman knowledge. The big difference between weights and long distance running/biking is that the long distance puts your body in a catoblic state whereas weightlifting puts your body into a catabolic state short term but promotes an anabolic state.

I class interval/HIT/Sprinting as a different type of cardio thats why I suggested this to the OP.

There are a number of scientific studies that show over the course of a 48 hour period following weightlifting, HIT and long distant for the same period of time that weight lifting burns the most calories overall as it increases your metabolism the most.

There are also studies that long distant running ages you whereas weightlifting has the opposite effect.


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## traplin (Feb 22, 2012)

OP you sound somewhat protective of your diet regime. This could be your stumbling block. 
In principle if your current training / diet isn't working then you've got to accept that either or BOTH need tweaking :thumb:
You could easily be eating healthily but still taking in too many calories and hence not seeing any improvement.
Training 6 days a week is ALOT...makes me wonder how effective your training is. If I've had a really hard 2 days back to back I'll struggle on my 3rd day to give 100%. Also when last have you given you trainign regime a good shake up to change things up completely?

Not meaning to sound negative or as if I'm lecturing...just pointing out some areas that you could consider if you're wanting to change things up a bit :thumb:

Speaking of which I've not been as regimental as I should be.  Your post has come as a kick up the backs1de to me OP


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## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it. Most of the comments seem to be diet and exercise related.

But, there are two things that will kill fat loss faster than a cornish pasty.

Sleep and stress.

Without getting into the science, if you aren't getting good sleep and you're overly stressed, it won't really matter what you eat or do to exercise, your body will store fat.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

I lost 2 stone in weight in 2 months due to stress.


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## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

bigmc said:


> I lost 2 stone in weight in 2 months due to stress.


lol... I knew someone would say something like that.

If you're stressed and it causes you to stop eating, you'll lose weight. However, muscle will deteriorate, and the chances are you probably still won't have a six pack. Even if you didn't, you'd probably still look terrible, rather than fit and healthy.

Whatever the case, if you're still eating as normal but are stressed, your body naturally goes into a survival mode, which isn't good for fat loss.


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Sounds interesting, sleep I had t factored but I get at leaf 7.5hours a night.

In terms of what I do here's it as it stands:

Monday: 1hr of five a side, weights
Tuesday: 1hour kettle bells, p90x AB ripper x
Wednesday: 3.5mile jog
Thursday: p90x shoulders and arms and AB ripper x
Friday: 1hour kettle bells
Saturday: rest
Sunday: 3.5mile jog

It's not need consistent the last 2 weeks due to being busy.


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Oh and not protective of the diet but I know it's pretty good in terms of what works for me, I am looking in to it this week to change some things. Due to work and meetings etc it can be hard to eat at the same times every day which is what I try


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## luke997 (Jul 26, 2011)

Bod42 said:


> Long distant running puts your body in a catabolic state. This has been proven by science and is comman knowledge. The big difference between weights and long distance running/biking is that the long distance puts your body in a catoblic state whereas weightlifting puts your body into a catabolic state short term but promotes an anabolic state.
> 
> I class interval/HIT/Sprinting as a different type of cardio thats why I suggested this to the OP.
> 
> ...


:lol: Science, common knowledge and studies? :lol:

You also forgot to mention, long distance running/biking makes your nose hair grow longer, shrink your balls, cause osteoporosis and eventually turns you into a rabbit, of course all proven in studies.

On a serious note I'll say it once again, mixing and balancing cardio with weights/core is the best you can do and provides most benefit for an average Joe.


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## luke997 (Jul 26, 2011)

Spoony said:


> Sounds interesting, sleep I had t factored but I get at leaf 7.5hours a night.
> 
> In terms of what I do here's it as it stands:
> 
> ...


That looks very reasonable and balanced, sticking to it and healthy diet will get you results.
Of course there is thousands other ways but you should stick to the one you enjoy...

P.S. Sorry for double posting, just want to split lol from non-lol


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## Matt. (Aug 26, 2007)

I would take a look at this - http://www.foodforfitness.co.uk/services/4551769017

Your own nutrition plan.

I'm thinking about it when I come back off my holidays. As most of the pros say, 80% food 20% fitness!

I have seen a few blogs that people have written using this guys personal plans. He tailors it to suit your goals/lifestyle.


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## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

Spoony said:


> Sounds interesting, sleep I had t factored but I get at leaf 7.5hours a night.
> 
> In terms of what I do here's it as it stands:
> 
> ...


You don't need to answer this, as you're not accountable to me, but just make sure it's 'good' sleep. Complete darkness, and not falling asleep on a couch with a laptop, or the like. Some would even suggest to put your mobile in flight mode, as it can prevent getting the best possible rest. Perhaps that's a little ott, though. Not sure.

Your exercise is good, but if you want to burn even more fat, exchange your 3.5mile jogs for High Intensity Interval sprints.

Try this out:

Sprint flat out for 20 seconds. Take 10 seconds rest. Aim to do it 4 times. But, you MUST MUST MUST be flat out sprinting for your life. Once you get to the stage where after 4 sprints you feel you can go on, move it up to 6. And once you get to 6, move up to 8.

Once you're doing it eight times, it's only a four minute workout. But it's an absolute monster of a workout. And if you think it sounds easy, get out and try it. If you still think it's easy, you're not sprinting fast enough.

Once you master this, you may want to experiment with other high intensity protocols, but believe me, if you're doing this twice a week, you'll be burning more fat and building more muscle than your steady-state 3.5 mile jogs. :thumb:


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Sounds interesting, I'll give the sprints a try down the park this week. I'll find a flat bit of grass and go for it.

Sleep is mostly good I think, I need new blackout curtains right enough.


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## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

Spoony said:


> Sounds interesting, I'll give the sprints a try down the park this week. I'll find a flat bit of grass and go for it.
> 
> Sleep is mostly good I think, I need new blackout curtains right enough.


I could do with getting back at it myself. You'll find if you stick at it 2-3 times a week, you'll make noticeable progress.

By about the fifth time doing it, you'll notice that you're able to push yourself harder for longer. It's quite encouraging when you notice the difference so quickly.

I use a GymBoss to keep the time. It means I don't have to watch a stop watch, I just run to the beep. It's like a digital drill sargent; you don't stop until it beeps, and when it beeps again it's peddle to the metal!


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

I think what Tomah suggested is perfect to increase fat lose and it only takes 4 mins. This is basically a Tabata style workout which was originally design for speed skaters and when they were pushing it 100% they could never complete 8 reps as it was to hard.

Extremely effective workout for 4 mins work.



luke997 said:


> :lol: Science, common knowledge and studies? :lol:
> 
> You also forgot to mention, long distance running/biking makes your nose hair grow longer, shrink your balls, cause osteoporosis and eventually turns you into a rabbit, of course all proven in studies.
> 
> On a serious note I'll say it once again, mixing and balancing cardio with weights/core is the best you can do and provides most benefit for an average Joe.


:lol::lol: Good reply :lol:

Average joes dont have time to run 100km per week. 90% of people I trained have 1 hour 3 times a week tops and so the best bang for buck exercise to change your body composition and improve your health is weight lifting. Millions of people would be in far better shape and more healthy if they got off the treadmill and trained the body how it was designed to be used.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-attacks-joint-strain--time-stop-jogging.html

'The more you run, the more your body prepares itself for your next run - you will actually start to hold on to more fat'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-dangerous-long-term-harm-say-scientists.html

Ya I know the "News" is the worst place to get info from but just saw these while reading.


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## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

Bod42 said:


> I think what Tomah suggested is perfect to increase fat lose and it only takes 4 mins. This is basically a Tabata style workout which was originally design for speed skaters and when they were pushing it 100% they could never complete 8 reps as it was to hard.
> 
> Extremely effective workout for 4 mins work.


That's it.

I don't like calling it 'Tabata', because it requires calculating effort, etc, before you really know that you're doing what Tabata recommended. But, 'Tabata style' would be right enough.

It's a killer.

My first experience doing a Tabata style workout was with body weight squats (no barbell). I hadn't trained in a while, and dove into a full 4 minute squat session.

Not only could I not walk for about four days, my immune system took a hit (similar to what happens marathon runners) and I ended up with a flu after it.

Tabata style workouts = :devil:

Awesome though. Nothing like it for burning fat and boosting aerobic fitness!


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

tomah said:


> That's it.
> 
> I don't like calling it 'Tabata', because it requires calculating effort, etc, before you really know that you're doing what Tabata recommended. But, 'Tabata style' would be right enough.
> 
> ...


Great thing about it as well is, like you said with squats, it can be done with nearly any exercise. I have done this with Burpees first thing in the morning a few times a week before and thats a killer as well.

My go to fat burner is nick named the Circuit of death and is:
Barbell Squats: 10 reps
Rest 60 secs
Pull Ups: 10 reps
Rest 60 secs
Deadlifts: 10 reps
Rest 60 secs
Dips: 10 reps
Rest 120secs

Repeat 2-3 more times.


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## luke997 (Jul 26, 2011)

Bod42 said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-attacks-joint-strain--time-stop-jogging.html
> 
> 'The more you run, the more your body prepares itself for your next run - you will actually start to hold on to more fat'
> 
> ...


Please stop, seriously... quoting such articles makes your advices not very credible to say the least.
How you can train people with such source of "knowledge" and is it suppose to back your arguments?

DailyMail article with so-called expert who is a personal trainer:

*Greg Brookes, a London-based personal trainer with a clientele that ranges from celebrities and City high-fliers to housewives, has come up with a list of seven deadly sins as far as running is concerned*

There is so many things wrong with what he says, starting with the first:

*His first assertion is that running actually decreases the size of your heart.*

If anything, extreme endurance training can increase the size of your heart, not decrease, which is the reason why resting heart rate in endurance athletes is much lower than regular people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletic_heart_syndrome

But again, bottom line is the guy is wrong and above is on the extreme side.

When I talked about long running, I said explicitly, it is just my extreme example - to show where you can burn most fat.
Reasonable amount of cardio for an average person will only bring benefits.

Sprints, intervals or moderate cardio mixed with weight which OP intends to do is the right way to go.



Bod42 said:


> Average joes dont have time to run 100km per week. 90% of people I trained have 1 hour 3 times a week tops and so the best bang for buck exercise to change your body composition and improve your health is weight lifting. Millions of people would be in far better shape and more healthy if they got off the treadmill and trained the body how it was designed to be used.


Well if you want to go all out on burning calories - there you go:
High intensity cardio like running/cycling/skiing etc. will burn you most calories per amount of time, with post workout increase in metabolism too - not weights.
There is no doubt about it, phoney dailymail articles etc. 
This is the fact as these will always fire up most muscles in your body.

Get yourself HR watch, and decent software like FirstBeat Athlete and monitor your HR & energy expenditure during workout, and 24/48h post, you'll see which burns most.

Once again - do not give bad advice but trying to convince people only weights are good, cardio is bad and inefficient. 
This is just silly. Balance, balance and once again balance is the way to go.
Not just weight, not just cardio, but both.

I'm out of the discussion as I see no further point in it if you can't see the obvious...


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## DamoS3 (Feb 24, 2012)

Diet is the key. Low low low did i mention low? Carbs high protein. Change your weight training to HIT training (high intensity training) in otherwords lower weight high reps. Forget cardio its pointless at this stage. Soon as you come off the treadmill your body stops burning calories. With HIT/ weight training your growing muscle, breaking it down so it needs nutriants to repair & grow. Get some creatine, and hmb. Take them as adviced. If you can hit each body part twice a week with sunday off. Monday chest, back. Tues arms (bi's tri's shoulders traps) weds. Weds legs, calves. Abs every day. For abs switch it up, lying leg raises. Hanging leg raises, sit ups, crunches etc. if you chose to use free weights, depending what excercises you chose, you'll engage a lot of your core. Also try twists, 150 twist after each weight session, (75) per side. Back to diet, what do you class as bang on?! No carbs whatso ever after 3pm your body doesnt need them. Casein protein before bed, whey protein before and after workout, take multivits. Build muscle - burn fat 24/7. Oh i forgot stay away from too much bread, cut out sugars. Hope this helps,

Damo

---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?ohx3md


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

luke997 said:


> Please stop, seriously... quoting such articles makes your advices not very credible to say the least.
> How you can train people with such source of "knowledge" and is it suppose to back your arguments?
> 
> DailyMail article with so-called expert who is a personal trainer:
> ...


must say, got to laugh when someone makes an argument on the internet claiming peoples link are rubbish, then link to Wikipedia to back themselves up!!!

Not really the bastion of knowledge and integrity to be honest......

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

:wall:


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## luke997 (Jul 26, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> must say, got to laugh when someone makes an argument on the internet claiming peoples link are rubbish, then link to Wikipedia to back themselves up!!!
> 
> Not really the bastion of knowledge and integrity to be honest......
> 
> ...


This Wikipedia link is for illustration only and for that purpose is good enough. 
I've read tons of whitepapers on the subject and have been consulted by qualified medical specialists in well respected hospitals as I have my heart enlarged due to that very reason - endurance training (non genetic).

This particular Wikipedia link in my post is well written and easy to "swallow", hence I've linked it, but if insist on something else, here's an example.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1767992/

On another note, don't even compare wikipedia with the dailymail news article, it is just ridiculous.

On majority of the subjects, especially "big" ones, wikipedia articles are accurate enough and scrutinized (if not written!) by field experts, otherwise you can see that the article is being disputed.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

:lol::lol::lol:

:thumb:


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

luke997 said:


> Well if you want to go all out on burning calories - there you go:
> High intensity cardio like running/cycling/skiing etc. will burn you most calories per amount of time, with post workout increase in metabolism too - not weights.
> There is no doubt about it, phoney dailymail articles etc.
> This is the fact as these will always fire up most muscles in your body. *Your saying long distance running fires up more muscle than a heavy deadlift or squat workout, not a chance*
> ...


I did say "Ya I know the "News" is the worst place to get info from but just saw these while reading" and more put them up as I thought it was funny 2 articles were in the news about what we were discussing. I would never take anything scientific in the news as a good source but I couldnt be bothered to reference scientific studies.

I agree that if you run for 3 hours a day you will burn calories, the same as if you dont eat for a week you will loose weight but that doesnt mean its the best way to get in shape.

As i said before I am talking about average joes who mostly have a family, job, etc to content with and want the best results with the time they have and this is not achieved by running.

Also the OP has asked about the last layer of fat covering his abs and I take this to mean he wants the traditional front cover 6 pack. This is achieved with 2 things, muscle size and low body fat. Running only deals with one aspect of this equation whereas weightlifting deals wuth them both.

And the OP did state that he is doing loads of cardio and not getting the desired result and this is in line with my personal findings as well. I have trained people who have been running/biking in the gym upto 6 days per week for months if not years and they still look the same, start them on a weights program and things start to change.

Forget all the research, scientific studies etc and look at real life. Look at runners of all different distances, with each increase in distance from 100m upto maranthons, the average muscle mass drops with each increase in distance while maintaining similar body fat %. This is real life and shows that long distant running/biking wastes muscle.

If the OP wants the 6 pack look, why would he pick an exercise that has been proven to waste muscle?


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## DamoS3 (Feb 24, 2012)

Just read some of the above comment ^^ didnt read it all. What you must take into account:

Cardio - burns calories faster period. When you stop then burning calories stops. The key to burn FAT during cardio is keeping withing you metabolic Heart Rate Target. Majority of people can achieve this via a slight jog or power walking. You can test to see if your within this state by using "talk test" whereby you can hold a conversation while conducting cardio, without gasping for breath, but your heart rate is elevated, thus increasing your bodies thermo state so your sweating and conduct relatively short time periods eg 20-40mins per session. This is better to loose excess & stubborn fat. It works, i've done it before. I lost 3stone just doing this alone and not having carbs after 3pm carbs such as pasta etc, i did have salad & greens such as asparagos & baby spinich.

Weights: high intesnsity training and fst7 training i have found the best methods to build muscle and lose fat combined with an appropriate diet & supplimentation. In essence what your doing here is high reps low weight, then one power set where you have a high weight & low rep range eg bench press xkg, 6-8 reps. By weight training your body burns calories 24/7 to repair, build and protect the muscles. Therefore burning calories 24/7. Sometimes around the lower abs develop from moderate cardio, combined with a weight training programme & diet. Furthermore, excess skin around the torso and lower abdomen is often mistaken for fat, so by doing 150twists a day for a month - 2months works your obliques along with tightening your skin...

Diet: high protein low carb diet.

Weigh yourself in lbs. try to consume 1g - 2g of protein per lb of bodyweight. Add this up and split it onto seperate meals for throught the day. Your body can only digest i think around 25g of protein per meal. Then takes around 1.5 hours minimum to digest it. Therefore to burn more calories keep your bodies theromgenic state up you should consume small frequent meals, no earlier than 1.5 hours after each other and no later than 3hours appart. So this fits into your protein meal split...

Carbs: your body needs them end of. Moreso when your training. How much depends on your goal & intensity. For this instance cut your carbs to 0.5g per lb of bodyweight, place into the same broken down meals as your protein. Starchy carbs before 3pm (complex carbs) then simple carbs after such as salads. Try to avoid suger as suger spikes your insulin levels therefore give your body false energy for a short period of time.

Tips: keep your body guessing! Change your exercises regularly (4-6weeks) as your body gets used to them. Try to use free weights & full range of motion to use all of your muscle fibers. Negative reps are the most important part of the reps these Build mucsle!!!! And therefore burn more calories!!!! Pre-workout meal 1.5 hours Min before, post. - asap! Casien protein before bed (slow release) whey protein throughout the day and as soon as you wake up (fast release protein)

Suppliments: dont fall for marketing bull. Essentials: omega 3,6,9 fish oils, multivits, creatine, bcaa's. Others add and takeaway once you test and find out what works for YOU. Recommendations: cla, natural test boosters (beware of being grumpy), fat burner such as grenade. Dont take T5's been there done that waste of money bad for your health. They eat your muscles bad downer. Also hmb, its like a little energy source for your muscles like creatine.

Drink plenty of water!!!! 3+ litres a day

I hope this helps and makes sense. Im not talking out of my ****, this is just one method that works & i have used & studying personal training.

---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?rjpmix


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

tomah said:


> Your exercise is good, but if you want to burn even more fat, exchange your 3.5mile jogs for High Intensity Interval sprints.
> 
> Try this out:
> 
> ...


I really claim to know nothing about fitness but there is no way in a million years 80secs of flat out sprinting is 'better' for you than a 3.5mile run!

The fitness industry is full to brimming with fad diets, exercise regimes, superfoods, wonder ab machines you use for 5mins a day etc etc all pouring money into peoples pockets. HIIT is just the latest fad and will fall by the wayside as some silly idea they had in the 10s!

And this is a confirmed fact as it says so on the internet - right here! here! :lol:

p.s. I hope my link is not the internet equivalent of dividing by zero and going to destroy it :lol::lol:


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## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

Bero said:


> I really claim to know nothing about fitness but there is no way in a million years 80secs of flat out sprinting is 'better' for you than a 3.5mile run!
> 
> The fitness industry is full to brimming with fad diets, exercise regimes, superfoods, wonder ab machines you use for 5mins a day etc etc all pouring money into peoples pockets. HIIT is just the latest fad and will fall by the wayside as some silly idea they had in the 10s!
> 
> ...


:lol:

First of all, you're aiming to get to 8 rounds. That's 160 seconds.

Secondly, who do you think burns more calories sitting still, a 100 metre sprinter, or a marathon runner? (hint: muscle is your best friend for burning calories)

Long distance, steady-state running breaks the body down, and you only burn calories while you're running. Sprints build muscle, and continue to cause calorie burn long after you're finished.

The only way your body makes gains and really burns calories is when it's put outside its comfort zone. Jogging doesn't do this very well.

Muscle is your friend when trying to lose weight, which is why squats and dead lifts are two of the best exercises for losing weight. Not ab machines or bicep curls, or step machines, or whatever.

Some aspects of HIIT may be faddy, but the science backs it up if it's done right (and it depends upon putting in max (or near max) effort).

Bench presses, dead lifts, squats, pull ups, along with some sprints is all you need to get into the best shape of your life. There are other ways, but doing these with the right diet and you'll get in better shape than most programs out there.

Lastly, if you want to question the sprints vs. jogging, try it yourself. It sounds easy, but here's something you might want to observe. Check out this video and ask yourself, why is Bolt sweating and panting? I mean, he just ran of less than 10 seconds, and he's an athlete, why would he sweat?

:thumb:


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## jamieblackford (Jan 17, 2012)

Grommit said:


> You also need to think about genetics. Sometimes you're just not the type to get or see the abs. Very hard to get.


I disagree with that. Anybody can work abs and rip themself, I know it's boring but the as people have said before me. You'll see nothing if they later of fat is too thick covering them. Get your body fat below 10% them you should see results  keep at it


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

tomah said:


> :lol:
> 
> First of all, you're aiming to get to 8 rounds. That's 160 seconds.
> 
> ...


Very well written and I agree with everything you have said. This is what I have been trying to say but I'm not the best at putting it into worlds.

HIT has been around since the 1970s and was popularized by Arthur Jones and it hasnr died yet. You will find long distant exercise is slowing dieing out as we our proving there are more efficient ways to get in shape. This shows by the increase in Crossfit/Bootcamp type gyms popping up.



DamoS3 said:


> Just read some of the above comment ^^ didnt read it all. What you must take into account:
> 
> Cardio - burns calories faster period. *When you stop then burning calories stops*.
> 
> ...


I agree with mostly everything you said but the Bolded parts are the most important. If I had to train someone 3 times per week and this is all they could do and they wanted to get in shape as fast as possible I would pick weightlifting as that way the client will be burning calories at a faster rate 24/7 for the next 48 hours. If we just did cardio they would only burn calories while they were with me and training.

As Tomah has said muscle is your friend for burning calories. This is why running alone never works to transform your body, yes you lose weight consisting of both muscle and fat but when people go back to their normal life style, which a large % do, they now have less muscle which means they burn less calories. This is the reason you hear so many people say they did well loosing weight but they put it all back on plus more.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I am lucky in a way that my job is very physical I seem to be building a lot of muscle now and my strength seems to be improving too for example I can lift a 6 inch concrete block right above my head with one hand in one move:thumb:


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## Matt. (Aug 26, 2007)

You da man Rossy Boy!


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## alipman (May 10, 2007)

Can we get the Op back on to comment about these posts?

The one thing which is sticking in my mind is that we have given him a lot of information and I really hope than in this thread we havent confused him about what is possible?

I am coming from a running background, albeit 2 1/2 years, as a means to lose weight. I used to go to the gym about 10 years ago, not to get big but it was what I tried to stay fit. Did some cardio and some weights. Nice.

After losing 40 lbs when I started running, I have recently been trying to show my abs. A bit like Spoony perhaps.

So in my quest I have basically started to eat more protein, less fat. So far it is working. I am now seeing a 4 pack instead of a 2 pack.

A couple of my own observations.
I never got washboard abs just by weights and cardio alone.
I never got washboard abs just by running alone.

The way I am making progress is by still running, and changing my diet. So that to me is where I was going wrong ALL along!


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## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

alipman said:


> Can we get the Op back on to comment about these posts?
> 
> The one thing which is sticking in my mind is that we have given him a lot of information and I really hope than in this thread we havent confused him about what is possible?
> 
> ...


Apologies to OP if my posts have been unhelpful and confusing.

As for abs... it's nearly all in the diet. You absolutely must get it right, and more protein and less sweet and starchy carbs (potatoes, rice, pasta, bread, sweets, etc) will definitely help :thumb:


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

tomah said:


> Apologies to OP if my posts have been unhelpful and confusing.
> 
> *As for abs... it's nearly all in the diet.* You absolutely must get it right, and more protein and less sweet and starchy carbs (potatoes, rice, pasta, bread, sweets, etc) will definitely help :thumb:


And as we all know its the hardest part  

Foood is great


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## alipman (May 10, 2007)

tomah said:


> Apologies to OP if my posts have been unhelpful and confusing.
> 
> As for abs... it's nearly all in the diet. You absolutely must get it right, and more protein and less sweet and starchy carbs (potatoes, rice, pasta, bread, sweets, etc) will definitely help :thumb:


We all have passed on information here coming from different exercise backgrounds so what works for him may not be what works for me.

Its good we have this knowledge to pass on.


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

alipman said:


> We all have passed on information here coming from different exercise backgrounds so what works for him may not be what works for me.
> 
> Its good we have this knowledge to pass on.


This is where the confusion lies, our bodies react in different ways, with powerlifting some get bigger some don't.

I think it's best to work on realistic short term goals to reach your ultimate goal, don't rush, hone your training & diet as you take the journey :thumb:

I'm sure i will remember this thread when i get to my fat loss stage, hopefully by Christmas my lifting goals will be achieved, I'll move on to maintaining them & start a more serious approach to fat loss & remember how much I love food 

I'm interested in getting fat callipers, any recommendations guys?


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## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

ITHAQVA said:


> I'm interested in getting fat callipers, any recommendations guys?


My wife recommends these (she's a dietitian).

But, they're not as accurate as an underwater body fat test, but as long as you measure in the right places, and then be consistent in where you measure, you should be able to see changes, even if they aren't perfectly accurate.


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

tomah said:


> My wife recommends these (she's a dietitian).
> 
> But, they're not as accurate as an underwater body fat test, but as long as you measure in the right places, and then be consistent in where you measure, you should be able to see changes, even if they aren't perfectly accurate.


Thanks Tom :thumb::thumb:

Purchased!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I have the body fat scales... the ones that send a wee current through your body to measure the fat...

had them for years and I'm pretty sure they don't work.... :lol:

no matter what I do, the figure is always the same...

I just go by how my clothes fit and how I feel these days... had my time worrying about is it 4% or 6% this week....  :wall:

:thumb:


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## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

The Cueball said:


> had my time worrying about is it 4% or 6% this week...


lol... listen to Tyler Durden!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

tomah said:


> lol... listen to Tyler Durden!


:lol:

It was a long time ago, in my fighting pre bike crash days...

Now I am more like, where's the donut...

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

:wall:

Still got it upstairs though.... maybe just can't move as fast... 

:thumb:


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> I have the body fat scales... the ones that send a wee current through your body to measure the fat...
> 
> had them for years and I'm pretty sure they don't work.... :lol:
> 
> ...


I think i'm around 25% at the moment, not sure what percentage i need to get to, but as long as my abs just show i will consider that a healthy visible level in terms of body fat.

I'll use cardio/Tae kwon do/Maui Thai drills/ dynamic stretches & 20 min's HIT on the old air walker to increase my fitness on non-powerlifting days.

I'm going to give myself 12 months to achieve this, realistic guys?


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> :lol:
> 
> It was a long time ago, in my fighting pre bike crash days...
> 
> ...


Are you saying your cuddley Cuey


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

ITHAQVA said:


> I think i'm around 25% at the moment, not sure what percentage i need to get to, but as long as my abs just show i will consider that a healthy visible level in terms of body fat.
> 
> I'll use cardio/Tae kwon do/Maui Thai drills/ dynamic stretches & 20 min's HIT on the old air walker to increase my fitness on non-powerlifting days.
> 
> I'm going to give myself 12 months to achieve this, realistic guys?


I believe the fat percentage is 10% and under for "show" abs... (for "most" people...a general rule if you like)

Under 5% and it's actually a bit dangerous...

Body builders on stage etc during comps are about 3%

I think your goals are OK in the timeframe.... the faster the fat comes off, the quicker is goes back on sometimes! :lol:

:thumb:



ITHAQVA said:


> Are you saying your cuddley Cuey


Yeah, built for cuddles and comfort these days......



:wall:


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

tomah said:


> lol... listen to Tyler Durden!


:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

I know we have our respective sport threads but would it be a good idea to have another just based on bodyfat loss? 

It seems its a common goal for many of us


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> I believe the fat percentage is 10% and under for "show" abs... (for "most" people...a general rule if you like)
> 
> Under 5% and it's actually a bit dangerous...
> 
> ...


Cheers Cuey, 10% is a nice rounded figure :thumb:

Cuddles, nothing like a good grope :devil: :thumb:


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

tomah said:


> :lol:
> 
> First of all, you're aiming to get to 8 rounds. That's 160 seconds.
> 
> ...


It's surly a simple fact of physics and conservation of energy - 160secs is the equivalent of sprinting about 1km, maybe a little more. Jogging 5.6km (3.5 miles) uses more energy.......maybe it comes from fat, maybe it comes from muscle - it's exceedingly difficult thing to prove ether way, even with lab conditions and Olympic athletes. People have hypothesis, others can show some data to support their views, others will start a gym franchise using HIT, the next will write a book on the 'New Calorie Burning Sensation Regime' etc etc......but independent irrefutable proof? I call snake oil!

Frontal Lobotomy, electroshock therapy, the world being flat and the sun orbiting the earth were ALL supported by science at one point, it does not mean they're right :thumb:

Even recently, 5 portions of fruit and veg a day is pretty much accepted 'science' and used in a host of countries to promote better living and healthier life styles.............where does 5 come from, why not 4 or 6? does eating 4 or 6 make things worse? anyway what is 1? What/who started this noble campaign to make the world healthier? Oh....yeah it was essentially a marketing campaign started by a couple huge fruit and veg companies in the USA with the backing of the US Govt to increase their sales and profit!

I don't see the relevance of bolt sweating - he's just covered a set distance in one of the shortest times ever recorded. Is there any sport where you are pushing the physical limits of what the body can do where the sportsman doesn't break sweat or breath heavily, regardless if it's a 5 second dead lift or an iron man competition?


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Bero said:


> Even recently, 5 portions of fruit and veg a day is pretty much accepted 'science' and used in a host of countries to promote better living and healthier life styles.............where does 5 come from, why not 4 or 6? does eating 4 or 6 make things worse? anyway what is 1? What/who started this noble campaign to make the world healthier? Oh....yeah it was essentially a marketing campaign started by a couple huge fruit and veg companies in the USA with the backing of the US Govt to increase their sales and profit!


Yip... it's all b0ll0x... and do you know what... c'mere and I'll tell you a little secret.... shhh....

We all still die anyway....  

Live the way you want to live, and don't worry about all these facts, figures etc etc... I don't really see the need to live until I'm too old to enjoy myself anyway... a good life isn't measured in your age.... 

:thumb:


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## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

Bero said:


> It's surly a simple fact of physics and conservation of energy - 160secs is the equivalent of sprinting about 1km, maybe a little more. Jogging 5.6km (3.5 miles) uses more energy.......maybe it comes from fat, maybe it comes from muscle - it's exceedingly difficult thing to prove ether way, even with lab conditions and Olympic athletes. People have hypothesis, others can show some data to support their views, others will start a gym franchise using HIT, the next will write a book on the 'New Calorie Burning Sensation Regime' etc etc......but independent irrefutable proof? I call snake oil!
> 
> Frontal Lobotomy, electroshock therapy, the world being flat and the sun orbiting the earth were ALL supported by science at one point, it does not mean they're right :thumb:
> 
> ...


Okay, forget the 'science', Bero. Let's try to look at a few logical reasons which anyone with a basic knowledge should be able to follow...

One of the benefits is in forcing the individual to put in max effort, instead of thinking, 'right, I'm gonna run 3 miles, so I need to find a pace that allows me to keep going that long'.

This makes it far better at increasing your VO2 max, which in layman terms means you increase your oxygen capacity at a faster rate so that your body can perform better for longer.

Another benefit of HIIT is that, at least with a short protocol (like the 4 minute one I suggested), when you finish you don't get the strong urge to feed. If you run for 40 minutes or more, your urge to refuel is going to be much higher. Thus, you consume more energy hindering your fat loss progress.

Lastly, it is better at maintaining and promoting muscle growth. Longer running breaks down the muscle, which is not what you want for fat loss.

Whatever you think about it, HIIT isn't a magic pill. It's hard work, and just because it is gaining more publicity, doesn't make it something to ignore. Eating 'clean' is also a growing fad (eating only natural foods, no processed foods), does that mean it's something to avoid?

At the end of the day, moving is better than sitting no matter what you do. It's a bit stupid discussing a 3.5 mile run vs doing HIIT. Both are better than nothing. I was just trying to help the OP. I hate running. I could never bring myself to tramp the roads for 45 minutes several times a week. 4 minutes of sprints work for me! :thumb:


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Got my body fat calipers in today and they seem to reckon I'm sitting at 12-13% body fat but I'm not sure I've done that right.


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## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

Spoony said:


> Got my body fat calipers in today and they seem to reckon I'm sitting at 12-13% body fat but I'm not sure I've done that right.


Use the Jackson and Pollock 7 point method.

You should be able to get a chart online to show you the precise locations. I'm not sure what my wife recommends, but this might help along with this.

As I've said before, it isn't a flawless way of measuring, but if you're consistent you can measure progress.

:thumb:


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## eddie bullit (Nov 23, 2007)

I think you just need to eat healthy, train consistently and throw away the calipers. You're reading way too much into things tbh. If youre at 12% bodyfat (which I doubt) and you cant see your abs then keep working. 
The most important thing is consistency with your diet and training. No point going like a mad man for two weeks and then missing a week. You've got to divise a plan/diet that you can adhere to long term or you'll get fed up and give up..Good luck.
Edd


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

I brought, used, done a lot of reserch on fat calipers and spoken to people who use them daily with clients and they are hard to get consistant readings. There are better and more accurate ways like water weighting but they are expensive.

Also its a little irrelevant as you could quite possibly be 12% BF and not see your abs very well as it all depends where your body likes to store fat and where it likes to get rid of it last.


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

Spoony said:


> Got my body fat calipers in today and they seem to reckon I'm sitting at 12-13% body fat but I'm not sure I've done that right.


As long as you are fit & healthy though spoons, having abs isnt really that important IMHO.

Do you train your abs?

My calipers are on the way  :thumb:


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

ITHAQVA said:


> As long as you are fit & healthy though spoons, having abs isnt really that important IMHO.
> 
> Do you train your abs?
> 
> My calipers are on the way  :thumb:


You've got a fair point there, it's just something I've never had lol.

I would say I'm now in the best shape I've ever been in my life, and it's funny because I always felt I never had time or it would be too hard - when actually it's not that hard.

I haven't trained abs for the last 2 weeks really but once I'm back on it I'll be doing abs every 2nd day.

Going to drop a little of the cardio soon and do a little more weights.


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

eddie bullit said:


> I think you just need to eat healthy, train consistently and throw away the calipers. You're reading way too much into things tbh. If youre at 12% bodyfat *(which I doubt)* and you cant see your abs then keep working.
> The most important thing is consistency with your diet and training. No point going like a mad man for two weeks and then missing a week. You've got to divise a plan/diet that you can adhere to long term or you'll get fed up and give up..Good luck.
> Edd


Why do you doubt it? lol. For those who've met me they might say they've seen more meat on a butchers apron. Years of boozing every weekend left me with the visceral fat around the stomach region - not to mention the haribo lol


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

Spoony said:


> You've got a fair point there, it's just something I've never had lol.
> 
> I would say I'm now in the best shape I've ever been in my life, and it's funny because I always felt I never had time or it would be too hard - when actually it's not that hard.
> 
> ...


Some Basic powerlifting would be good for you spoony, either 5 rep or 10 rep routines :thumb:


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

ITHAQVA said:


> Some Basic powerlifting would be good for you spoony, either 5 rep or 10 rep routines :thumb:


I might try this soon, there's a gym down my way which is pretty good for weightlifting. Once I'm happy with where I am the hard work begins to add muscle bulk


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## dubnut71 (Jul 25, 2006)

Itahqva's got your back here Spoony, compound exercises like deadliest, squats, bench are all solid backbone exercises, the abs will just be under the b/f. 

I am currently sitting at 13% and falling (measured on the omron scales at work), am in the best shape I have ever been body fat wise and am currently on month 4 of Intermittent fasting (IF) The method I use is Fast-5, no not the film with vin diesel, the regime is fast for 19hrs per day and eat within a 5hr window. I currently use 5pm to 10pm as it suits me, I train 1pm - 2pm in the gym at work, 5 days a week, 4 days weights 1 day cardio.
Since reading up on the 5x5 strong lifts program I have started to squat, dead and bench properly for the first time in my training career, I really cannot stress how much these compound exercises have improved my overall fitness, body fat percentage and wellbeing.
If you are in on Thursday night there is a prog on the BBC "th people who made us fat" watch it and get some info on the level of processed foods, simple carbs and HFCS (hugh fructose corn syrup) thats in our diets. 
Eat clean train dirty, its the only way!!!


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## avit88 (Mar 19, 2012)

have u tried tabata training its great for loosing weight  google it

basically u warm up and then train for 4 mins at very very high intensity in sets of 20secs then 10secs rest

so goes like this 20secs exercise 10secs rest 20secs exercise 10secs rest (1min) x 4

please be careful with this if u have a heart problem or history of heart problems etc


sorry this has already been posted. ps i use cross trainer to do it


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

Your be shocked at the awesome abs the compound exercises give you.

Check this Olympic Weightlifter out. I can tell you there are no crunches in his routine and his abs are pretty good. No ****.


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

avit88 said:


> have u tried tabata training its great for loosing weight  google it
> 
> basically u warm up and then train for 4 mins at very very high intensity in sets of 20secs then 10secs rest
> 
> ...


Starting some Tabata on the air walker tonight, I'll let you know how i got on, once i pick myself up off the floor :devil: 

I'm doing the Tabata after I've done dynamic stretches (approx 10 mins) & Muay Thai (Approx 30 mins) or do you have to do it on its own?


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## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

If it's helpful, there are some exercises you see most doing that you don't really need to do, like crunches and bicep curls.

These things are a waste of time if you're doing the exercises you should be doing like deadlifts, squats, benchpress, and pullups.


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Sounds good. I do squatting and dead lift already but little pull ups, I need a pull up bar solution.

I've done tabata style before, the key is to really burst a gut and go for it each round.


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

Spoony said:


> Sounds good. I do squatting and dead lift already but little pull ups, I need a pull up bar solution.
> 
> I've done tabata style before, the key is to really burst a gut and go for it each round.


Alternatively you can do: Barbell rows & the bench press, both are excellent upper body exercises :thumb:

After my main heavy work sets I do these for extra volume,

Bench Press: 77.5Kg 5 sets 10 reps

Barbell Row: 56Kg 5 sets 10 reps

Once you reach 10 reps for each set add another 2.5Kg to the weight used for the exercise, job done!

Or you can go for a higher rep range, to suite your training requirements :thumb:


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## eddie bullit (Nov 23, 2007)

Spoony said:


> Why do you doubt it? lol. For those who've met me they might say they've seen more meat on a butchers apron. Years of boozing every weekend left me with the visceral fat around the stomach region - not to mention the haribo lol


I doubt it because 12% is low. If you cant see you stomach muscles at that. Just because your thin doesn't mean you've got low body fat either..just means you body composition is different. ie muscles to fat ratio.
Calipers are unreliable.


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Your probably right sir. I'll need to get my proper measurements.

Bit off the wagon this week and eating has included some treats which I shouldn't have... can of rockstar and a snickers for breakfast one morning lol:
- five a side Monday
- 1hr kettle bells Tuesday
- 3.44mile jog wednesday (time: 25:56)
- nothin Thursday
- 0.5 hour cardio, 0.5 hour abs, 1hr kettle bells Friday

Kettle bells on Tuesday went as follows for those interested (I may have forgot some specific exercises) - done with 12kg bell
- 5-8 min aerobic workout and dynamic stretching
- dead lift 
- upright row
- halo
- alternate clean and press 
- bicep curls
- high windmill
- alternate snatch
- power clean
- turkish get ups 4x2min rounds (I used 20kg)
- swing
- lunges with kettle overhead
- swing
- lunges with kettle overhead
- overhead extensions
- basic crunch
- lying leg raise
- pullover in to crunch
- Ab cycle 
- more work on abs I forget
- cool down and stretch.

Tonight's kettle bells is different in that I'll be pushing to use heavier weights and do more technical moves and retain form.


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