# Time efficient/cost effective products



## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

I feel this topic may raise a few eyebrows but here goes......

As a member new to detailing, I've found my biggest problem is time, or lack of, no doubt through lack of knowledge and/or experience. Now, I appreciate detailers are encouraged to take their time but my 'customers' are unlikely to be able to hand their car over for 2 or 3 days at a time.

I've been working on cars used daily, those belonging to family and friends and because they're daily drivers they need their wheels.

To try and free up a little time, and possibly money by purchasing one instead of two products for example, are there any products you can recommend that have a dual purpose or work particularly well. These are the sorts of examples I've been researching:-

1. CarPro Trix - a dual action fallout remover AND tar remover

2. Bilt Hamber Korrosol - fallout remover for use on bodywork AND wheels

3. Scholl S20 Black - use a one step detailing polish instead of two

4. Use a polish that won't affect vinyl and rubber to save time taping off

Don't get me wrong, I'm taking this seriously and don't want to be seen as a cowboy in the detailing world but sometimes I can't help thinking it's very time heavy. I just want to work a little smarter to be able to turn a vehicle round before the dust, sun, rain, snow, dark..............I think this is the difference between a hobby and trying to make money.


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## Luke M (Jul 1, 2013)

With respect. 
I read your post like this.
I'm new to this and have limited experience.
Is there a way I can cut corners and costs on customers cars?

Here's my answer. Get experience first. Only then will you know where you could be more efficient and most importantly what corners you shouldn't cut.
Try different products yourself. Find what works for you and what doesn't. And most of all do all of this before accepting money for working on other people's cars. Resprays aren't cheap.
Ask as many questions as you can and read as many posts as possible and certainly be prepared to accept advice and do not be stubborn and stuck in any old ways.
Finally when you do get to having customers you need to discuss services and costs accordingly. Inform them that polishing and refining takes time to do right. Don't try to compete with the speed and efficiency of the five pounds hand car washes since that's not what we do. Sell your service as one that takes time. As you know and should tell your custom "good things come to those that wait".


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## A&J (Mar 4, 2015)

I may be saying this too often lately but the Optimum range is all about efficiency.

ONR can be used as a shampoo, clay lube, qd, interior cleaner...
You can wash clay and wax all in 1 step using onr, clay towel & opti-seal or ocw.
Hyper polish is a good 1 step polish where you dont have to tape trim etc...

Youtube theragcompany and look at some videos with yvan lacroix and learn some time saving tricks.


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

Luke M said:


> With respect.
> I read your post like this.
> I'm new to this and have limited experience.
> Is there a way I can cut corners and costs on customers cars?
> ...


Many thanks for your reply, much appreciated. I'm conscious the machine polishing takes some time and shouldn't be rushed but equally the clear coat prep is just, if not more, important.

You're completely correct that I need to gain experience and this will take time. Whilst I gave the impression of cutting corners I'm a firm believer in providing a professional and customer focussed service.

This, however, needs to be balanced against the needs and expectations of the customer.... Perhaps a play on words....efficiency vs cutting corners. For example I recently used a 75p bottle of Wilko window cleaner to compare with my usual Autoglym fast glass cleaner...needless to say the Wilko stuff performed just as well as the AG. So in this example, a financial saving rather than a time saving.


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

A&J said:


> I may be saying this too often lately but the Optimum range is all about efficiency.
> 
> ONR can be used as a shampoo, clay lube, qd, interior cleaner...
> You can wash clay and wax all in 1 step using onr, clay towel & opti-seal or ocw.
> ...


Many thanks for your reply. This is exactly what I was looking for and I'd already come across this product and its many suggested uses in your other posts. I'll definitely look into this one!


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## gingar-genome (May 7, 2016)

Im lucky enough to change my car every 3 years. I use a detailer to new car prep/seal and have a detail each spring. As a customer I expect it to take 2 full days if it was less I'd want to know where the corners were being cut.
I enjoy hobby detailing most weekends snow foam, 2bm, and qd or wax, even clayed a few times but still cant compare with what a pro does. Its a skill that takes time and effort to perfect like all good trades.

Sent from my SGP311 using Tapatalk


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

I here is the equation

Finish= time
---------- 
Effort 
Yes you can cut corners. Yes you can save money by using stronger cheaper chemicals..
why not go the whole hog and learn to speak eastern European as well.
You are only EVER as good as the last motor you did. Screw one up by missing something and then what???? Choice is yours do it properly or do it European styles...where are you going to earn better money.
With experience you get to know chemicals. The biggest problem people encounter is dilution ratios and dwell time. But that's too much hassle so spray it on best and then moan because it's either damaged the area or not worked.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Basically you're trying to turn to 'detailing' for a quick buck with no idea what's involved when all you're really doing is cleaning a car and badly at that 

You'll then proceed to post pictures and #detailed #detailing etc when all you've done is a polish wash


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

I get the tissues. This is gonna end in tears


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

AllenF said:


> I get the tissues. This is gonna end in tears


Truth hurts love


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

There's a difference between cutting corners, and doing things efficiently. Unfortunately it's not something anyone can tell you, is something you have to learn with experience. After being "into" detailing for a bit over a year, and a lot of chat on here, I'm starting to feel like I get the basics. If you're doing a few cars a week you may learn quicker but two things about detailing you need to know, it takes time to learn, and time to do, no matter your level of experience.


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

AllenF said:


> I get the tissues. This is gonna end in tears


No it won't end in tears, I'm here to listen and learn from those who clearly have more knowledge and experience than I. I hear what everyone's saying so I'll reevaluate my position. Yes, you can't beat experience in any field so I need to go back to crawling before walking. If anyone is willing to share their practical expertise then please do, I'd relish the opportunity to learn from those with the expertise I'm seeking to gain. Sincere apologies for upsetting the DW apple cart.....


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## rob267 (Nov 27, 2015)

Chubbz said:


> No it won't end in tears, I'm here to listen and learn from those who clearly have more knowledge and experience than I. I hear what everyone's saying so I'll reevaluate my position. Yes, you can't beat experience in any field so I need to go back to crawling before walking. If anyone is willing to share their practical expertise then please do, I'd relish the opportunity to learn from those with the expertise I'm seeking to gain. Sincere apologies for upsetting the DW apple cart.....


I am also a newbie as i dont know loads about the finer side of detailing but also willing to learn from more experienced people.

Cant offer much advice but i think you should be looking at doing a good job regardless of time scale. The more practice you get the quicker you will become.

As for upsetting the dw apple cart. 
I would ignore certain posts as they dont seem truly interested in helping out with suggestions so dont listen.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

rob267 said:


> I am also a newbie as i dont know loads about the finer side of detailing but also willing to learn from more experienced people.
> 
> Cant offer much advice but i think you should be looking at doing a good job regardless of time scale. The more practice you get the quicker you will become.
> 
> ...


You're absolute right in what you say, you can't beat experience and it's imperative to do the best job you can! Thanks for your support!


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

rob267 said:


> I am also a newbie as i dont know loads about the finer side of detailing but also willing to learn from more experienced people.
> 
> Cant offer much advice but i think you should be looking at doing a good job regardless of time scale. The more practice you get the quicker you will become.
> 
> ...


Last paragraph well said, in my time here on DW u get to suss out who is here to help and who just likes to rile things a bit.
Long standing members definitely don't like new members doing paid work with no experience and it gets their backs up, which I entirely understand
So many members get the bug for it and try to run before they can walk.
Word you're posts sensitively to gain great knowledge from a super bunch of guys and girls, and Ull not have any problems with those that bite easily 
Just my 2 pence


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

deegan1979 said:


> Last paragraph well said, in my time here on DW u get to suss out who is here to help and who just likes to rile things a bit.
> Long standing members definitely don't like new members doing paid work with no experience and it gets their backs up, which I entirely understand
> So many members get the bug for it and try to run before they can walk.
> Word you're posts sensitively to gain great knowledge from a super bunch of guys and girls, and Ull not have any problems with those that bite easily
> Just my 2 pence


Thanks for your post. I found this on other forums.....that's life I guess. I hope to be able to gain the knowledge I need from the largest detailing source in the world!


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## Bulkhead (Oct 17, 2007)

I think that forums like DW are obviously full of people who take detailing very seriously and only the full array of wash, decon, polish and protect stages will do, no matter what the car or situation. I've often spent a whole weekend on one of my cars and am happy to do so. However, just as in any business, it's what the customer wants and can afford that needs to be catered for. Not everyone dines, or indeed appreciates the food, at a fine-dining restaurant and so it is with detailing. Some times, the customer just wants a burger, wants it quick and doesn't want to pay the earth for it. Many people want a burger detail - fast, 80% of the results compared to a multi-day detail but for a fraction of the price. Let's not get too snobby about it, let's give some sound advice and share some information as to products and techniques that can be used and employed. A good AIO applied with a DA would give pretty good results without the need for multiple pad and polish combinations. I find it bad enough having to wash three large and three small pads when I do my car. I saved loads of time using Prima's HydroMax spray sealant compared to the usual wax on, wax off. Sometimes people just want a good sausage sizzle rather than sous vide steak. The OP just needs advice on a good sausage, onions and bun!


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

I think I understand where you're coming from and it's very much 'horses for courses' in terms of your expected clientele, I think? I don't think you're asking how you can undercut long established detailer X, Y or Z to steal business from them by 'cutting corners', you simply want to achieve 'a' level of work that the kind of customer you'll be pitching at will be more than satisfied with? With respect I'll make an assumption that you're not going to be charging _that_ much at this level, so as in any service based industry, time is important, otherwise, before you realise it and have done some sums you end up basically working for nothing.

To echo a lot of comments above, sadly it is only experience which will provide you with the skills and 'tricks of the trade, so to speak to allow you to shave say, 25% off the time it's taking you at present. I've been at this for over 20 years and am still learning little ways to do things better or quicker.

That said, some products _will_ help facilitate you maximising both your time and your budget. A couple that spring immediately to mind would be Car Pro PERL, as the one bottle can be diluted down to various strengths to cater for tyres, exterior and interior trim and engine bay dressing, and it's damn good at all of them.

A good budget wax, for example, would be any of the 3 Poorboys 'Nattys' range because they are, by and large, fool and climate proof (not that I'm suggesting you're a fool of course, or you attempt applying them in the rain lol!). What I mean is; they perform in hot and cold conditions, or if you apply too much, or leave too long - it doesn't really matter as you'll still get great results.

The only polish I've used that didn't stain trim, and it is an AIO, was the AD cherry glaze (I did a review of it back in the day  here ), and although you'd not match a dedicated machine polish in terms of ultimate correction, you should get reasonable results by machine application - again, I suspect, more than adequate for the level of your expected customers?

The Optimum No Rinse was a good shout as well earlier, for the reasons stated.


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

Bulkhead said:


> I think that forums like DW are obviously full of people who take detailing very seriously and only the full array of wash, decon, polish and protect stages will do, no matter what the car or situation. I've often spent a whole weekend on one of my cars and am happy to do so. However, just as in any business, it's what the customer wants and can afford that needs to be catered for. Not everyone dines, or indeed appreciates the food, at a fine-dining restaurant and so it is with detailing. Some times, the customer just wants a burger, wants it quick and doesn't want to pay the earth for it. Many people want a burger detail - fast, 80% of the results compared to a multi-day detail but for a fraction of the price. Let's not get too snobby about it, let's give some sound advice and share some information as to products and techniques that can be used and employed. A good AIO applied with a DA would give pretty good results without the need for multiple pad and polish combinations. I find it bad enough having to wash three large and three small pads when I do my car. I saved loads of time using Prima's HydroMax spray sealant compared to the usual wax on, wax off. Sometimes people just want a good sausage sizzle rather than sous vide steak. The OP just needs advice on a good sausage, onions and bun!


Hi, you make some great and valid points there. Thanks for taking time out to reply. Yes, experience is key, there's no getting round this, as with any career/job/occupation/hobby, if you want to get better at something.

Whilst experience is invaluable, I would find it hard to believe why anyone wouldn't want to experiment more in order to increase their experience, allow for process improvement and/or develop new skills to achieve the same or better results.

Every industry is dynamic and changes with time and I very much doubt, in my limited experience, detailing is any different. You only have to look at Darren from Auto Fetish Detail on YouTube to see he has vast experience but he also pushes the boundaries in how he works or overcomes challenges.

If a detailer has found their feet with technique, products, results and doesn't want to explore new avenues then that's their choice. Likewise if another detailer is thinking outside the box and/or innovatively then that's great too, isn't it? If someone does the same thing over and over then they can't expected different results. If that same person does the same thing over and over again expecting different results then that's insanity.

I'm gaining experience of using a DA and products on daily drivers at the moment, surely a good starting point. I'm lucky to find 'customers' who can let me have their vehicle for the day given their lifestyles. When I say customers, these are family and friends, so they get their cars done and if they wish to make a financial contribution, to cover product costs for example, then that's great - it's all about getting the experience.

So yes, time is precious and I can't fit everything into day - I have to manage my time, their expectations and be realistic. Because of time constraints I always inform them they have to be realistic in their expectations and ask what they would prefer me to concentrate on.

I have to provide a service, the best I can, in order to satisfy their needs and demands in order to 'grow'. If I fail to meet their expectations then I'm doomed. It's unrealistic to think I can do a full decon and prep followed by a two stage paint correction, then wax/seal in a day. Thus using an AIO as mentioned above is a good solution. I've just been looking at Autosmart Topaz and have been given a sample by a kind chap on another forum.

Once I gather momentum (with experience and reputation) then I can look at moving on with a different type of client, doing full paint correction, having the vehicles for two days and charging more to boot. I'd love to work on exotic sports cars but that doesn't mean I'm necessarily going to cut my nose of to spite my face by turning down clients with less disposable income when I could easily tailor the result to their needs.

As far as I'm aware, there's no 'apprentice' scheme available and I certainly don't know of any businesses that actively pursue novices and provide training. The best option to obtain initial experience is to invest money in a recommended company who offers detail training but how much experience do you get in two days? There is no recognised qualification or accreditation either so the best way to sell yourself is letting the results speak for themselves.

So, seen as I'm skint, the best way forward is to learn via the ad hoc, Chinese whisper and trial and error route, which takes more time and money. I think this is the difference between those interested in detailing for a hobby or for the shear love of it compared to someone who's trying to make money ultimately.

Yes, I'm starting with the sausage, onions and the bun......!


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

VIPER said:


> I think I understand where you're coming from and it's very much 'horses for courses' in terms of your expected clientele, I think? I don't think you're asking how you can undercut long established detailer X, Y or Z to steal business from them by 'cutting corners', you simply want to achieve 'a' level of work that the kind of customer you'll be pitching at will be more than satisfied with? With respect I'll make an assumption that you're not going to be charging _that_ much at this level, so as in any service based industry, time is important, otherwise, before you realise it and have done some sums you end up basically working for nothing.
> 
> To echo a lot of comments above, sadly it is only experience which will provide you with the skills and 'tricks of the trade, so to speak to allow you to shave say, 25% off the time it's taking you at present. I've been at this for over 20 years and am still learning little ways to do things better or quicker.
> 
> ...


Many thanks for your valid and valued reply. You're spot on in your assumptions with reference to clientele, meeting expectations and charging accordingly. There are physically easier ways to make money but I have a passion for this and am determined to make it work for me.

As you say, we all continue to learn in any trade, if you don't your business will perish. Times move forward and those in the service industry need to keep on top of their game as the public/customers can be very demanding at times. So, I'm not just trying to gain experience of detailing per se but knowledge and experience in terms of running a business and all that goes with it.

Many thanks for the suggestions re wax and AIO. I'll definitely look into these.


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## realist (May 11, 2011)

Hi Chubbz, I was going to suggest Topaz, goes over trim and glass,(not the screen) quick and easy to use in sun or cloud. Hook up with your local rep for the basic chemicals, look at Tango, many uses at different dilutions, I use a lot of their stuff and the only problem I've had is with Ultramousse, ruined the gloss black window trim on my Bmw:thumb:


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

realist said:


> ruined the gloss black window trim on my Bmw:thumb:


The dreaded 'Shadowline' sport trim eh! I don't know what BMW make this out of but it's a total PITA isn't it? Thankfully mine's good, but it's so prone to marks, spotting and it swirls so easy. I've even considered wrapping the 'B' pillar with satin black for an easy life.


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

realist said:


> Hi Chubbz, I was going to suggest Topaz, goes over trim and glass,(not the screen) quick and easy to use in sun or cloud. Hook up with your local rep for the basic chemicals, look at Tango, many uses at different dilutions, I use a lot of their stuff and the only problem I've had is with Ultramousse, ruined the gloss black window trim on my Bmw:thumb:


Thanks for your reply and suggestions, will look into Tango too, spot on!


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Well worth looking at Finish Kare products as well - you get lots for the price, they all perform well, and they're easy and straightforward to use. Serious Performance (site sponsor on here) have a sale on them at the moment.


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

steelghost said:


> Well worth looking at Finish Kare products as well - you get lots for the price, they all perform well, and they're easy and straightforward to use. Serious Performance (site sponsor on here) have a sale on them at the moment.


Good call, will investigate, thanks for your reply.


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## 204driver (Aug 27, 2008)

My bit of a advice is more your working style . IMHO you need to work in a methodical, practiced system and then as you repeat this you will more come more efficient but still 100% through .


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

204driver said:


> My bit of a advice is more your working style . IMHO you need to work in a methodical, practiced system and then as you repeat this you will more come more efficient but still 100% through .


Thanks for your reply. Totally agree, I certainly found this very early on....set up, things to do whilst products dwelling, any products already diluted, clear away as you go along......this type of thing?


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

You'll find that multi-use products are generally poor at those multi tasks they can supposedly do. Poor products that will only waste your time and money. You need to work out a system that works for you, and find the products that work the absolute best for each stage. That certainly includes tools too. 

You'll see that the majority of us that are more serious about detailing have multiple polishers. One size doesn't fit all. The general beginners short throw DAS6 DA doesn't cut it compared to a larger throw Rupes for instance. The larger throw DA's are far more efficient. They save a ton of time. 

Try SMAT polishes too. You don't have to continue to work them to break down the abrasives properly, just do what you need to do and move on. SMAT polishes leave a great finish too, even from the heavy cutting compounds. If you really want to continue using a DA, this type of polish is a huge time saver. 

The biggest time saver you'll ever get is only doing what the customer pays you to do. This can be the hardest of all for us perfectionists. 

Where do you think you need improvement exactly? Maybe we can help you with that.


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## boost monster (Jul 19, 2013)

Like most thing the last 5% requires 95% of the time.


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

-Raven- said:


> You'll find that multi-use products are generally poor at those multi tasks they can supposedly do. Poor products that will only waste your time and money. You need to work out a system that works for you, and find the products that work the absolute best for each stage. That certainly includes tools too.
> 
> You'll see that the majority of us that are more serious about detailing have multiple polishers. One size doesn't fit all. The general beginners short throw DAS6 DA doesn't cut it compared to a larger throw Rupes for instance. The larger throw DA's are far more efficient. They save a ton of time.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your detailed reply. Research and advice from several forums allowed me to obtain really good efficient products first time for the pre wash and decon phase, so I'm happy with this process.

Likewise, for the same reason, I've found some great products for the end phase such as window cleaning, rubber and plastic card and tyre dressing.

It's the paint correction phase I'm lacking in experience. I've used Gtecniq P1 and SRP followed by EGP by hand, no problem at all. I've tried M205 and M105 as well as S20 Black via DAS6 Pro+ with good results but results I'd want to improve on.

So in answer to your question, I need to work on technique, pad choice (currently using CG Hexlogic Quantum pads) and understanding how products work etc. I'd love to look at other machines but finances don't permit at the mo but given your thoughts it's one to look at for future. Gaining the practical experience and understanding of machine polishing is the steeper learning curve.

All the best.


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

steelghost said:


> Well worth looking at Finish Kare products as well - you get lots for the price, they all perform well, and they're easy and straightforward to use. Serious Performance (site sponsor on here) have a sale on them at the moment.


That's a good shout. The only product I've used on glass for years and years now is their #425 QD, which I dilute down 50:50 with filtered water. Not only is it a superb streak-free glass cleaner, regular use forms an amazing water repellent coating that imho comes pretty damn close to rivalling the dedicated nano-type glass sealants in this respect. Ove 50 mph in the rain I rarely need my wipers on.

The 1000p sealant is widely respected as I'm sure you know, and certainly worth having in the arsenal if you get someone who wants super long-lasting paintwork protection if say, they live in a an environmentally harsh climate and you you don't want to be getting into the whole ceramic coating game (which I'll take a guess wouldn't really fit in with your predicted regime?).


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

VIPER said:


> That's a good shout. The only product I've used on glass for years and years now is their #425 QD, which I dilute down 50:50 with filtered water. Not only is it a superb streak-free glass cleaner, regular use forms an amazing water repellent coating that imho comes pretty damn close to rivalling the dedicated nano-type glass sealants in this respect. Ove 50 mph in the rain I rarely need my wipers on.
> 
> The 1000p sealant is widely respected as I'm sure you know, and certainly worth having in the arsenal if you get someone who wants super long-lasting paintwork protection if say, they live in a an environmentally harsh climate and you you don't want to be getting into the whole ceramic coating game (which I'll take a guess wouldn't really fit in with your predicted regime?).


Nearly bought some of the 1000p when I was looking at LSPs. I'm liking your input on their QD, something considered as more than one use for a product, just what I'm after, spot on, thanks! Certainly consider this as my current rain X is great on all but the windscreen....in fact it's great on the screen until I put the wipers on and they drag and jump!


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

When I first read the op I thought it was referring to what products really work in saving you time whilst still providing a great result.

The one thing I've come to learn is that you have to really shell out for decent products as these can do a lot of the work for you and do save you time when compared to a cheaper alternative.

Sometimes you can't escape the fact that cheaper products will not get the job done either at all or to a good enough standard. This all comes down to trying things out and looking at what others have found out when doing the same.

I clean family members' cars fairly regularly, however I don't charge for this as I don't want to put a price on my work. I have been approached by neighbours etc. and I refuse often by quite simply saying that 'it wouldn't be worth me doing it' as I expect that most people would expect to pay £50 for the whole thing, and think that they were being ripped off at that!


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Chubbz said:


> Nearly bought some of the 1000p when I was looking at LSPs. I'm liking your input on their QD, something considered as more than one use for a product, just what I'm after, spot on, thanks! Certainly consider this as my current rain X is great on all but the windscreen....in fact it's great on the screen until I put the wipers on and they drag and jump!


I did use to get my bottle of FK #425 and decant half into another bottle, top up that with water as I said (I have to use filtered water as our tap water's terrible) which then made me up a litre of class cleaner/treatment, leaving the remaining product at full strength for use as a QD for paintwork duties................this was until I discovered Britemax #6 Spray & Shine which is, by far and away THE best paintwork QD I've found thus far. So now my FK #425 is purely for the glass. duties.


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

c87reed said:


> When I first read the op I thought it was referring to what products really work in saving you time whilst still providing a great result.
> 
> The one thing I've come to learn is that you have to really shell out for decent products as these can do a lot of the work for you and do save you time when compared to a cheaper alternative.
> 
> ...


It's a fine line sometimes between price and result, the very cheapest will often not be the best, with that I was looking at quality products that either save time or have one than one use. I used Autosmart Topaz this aft for the first time and can say this is a super product, very easy to use/remove and it can be used on rubbers and plastics for example.

In terms of getting financial reward for this type of work, like most new businesses, you often make a loss before a profit so, again, the reason for the post helps with damage limitation!


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

VIPER said:


> I did use to get my bottle of FK #425 and decant half into another bottle, top up that with water as I said (I have to use filtered water as our tap water's terrible) which then made me up a litre of class cleaner/treatment, leaving the remaining product at full strength for use as a QD for paintwork duties................this was until I discovered Britemax #6 Spray & Shine which is, by far and away THE best paintwork QD I've found thus far. So now my FK #425 is purely for the glass. duties.


Can you be a little more specific in terms of why you like the QD so much please?


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## Mikesphotaes (Jul 24, 2016)

Chubbz said:


> "..................................
> 
> This, however, needs to be balanced against the needs and expectations of the customer.... Perhaps a play on words....efficiency vs cutting corners. For example I recently used a 75p bottle of Wilko window cleaner to compare with my usual Autoglym fast glass cleaner...needless to say the Wilko stuff performed just as well as the AG. So in this example, a financial saving rather than a time saving.


Aye well being new to all this, I rushed down to Wilko and spent my remaining 75p from the pension.

Worked fine a couple of days ago on a cloudy day but total rubbish in the sun today!

Will rely on that old motto that you get what you pay for, I think the fairy liquid will continue to do fine for my windscreen


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

Mikesphotaes said:


> Aye well being new to all this, I rushed down to Wilko and spent my remaining 75p from the pension.
> 
> Worked fine a couple of days ago on a cloudy day but total rubbish in the sun today!
> 
> Will rely on that old motto that you get what you pay for, I think the fairy liquid will continue to do fine for my windscreen


Don't throw it just yet! As you know, working most products in the sun make them dry unusually quick. I found the Wilko stuff dries quickly anyway, so like other products it's about working round the perceived problems.

I soak one MF cloth with the cleaner in one hand then have a dry MF cloth in the other...... Work smaller areas and quickly, literally wipe on and off. You'll find it works a treat, give it a go.

Regards


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

Anyone thought of or are using glass bottles with their chemical resistant trigger sprays?

Long term storage of the original fluid or a diluted content would be good and smaller bottles, say 200mL, would be easier to store and carry around. Re-use with other fluids could be easier as they'll wash out without any leaching into the material.

Prices seem to be on a par with the plastic but at the end of life at least they can be recycled more readily.

http://www.ampulla.co.uk/Clear-Glas...Bottle-&-28mm-Black-Trigger-Spray/p-186-1179/


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

They'll break. They just will. And when you let half a litre of spirit based tar and glue remover fall undiluted and unemulsified into the water table, it will do far more harm than any other (highly debateable) benefits you might accrue.

In other words, no, I haven't


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Chubbz said:


> Can you be a little more specific in terms of why you like the QD so much please?


Since you ask, of course . Unlike some other 'wax-enhanced' QDs it doesn't streak, even if you inadvertantly have it dry on the paintwork during buff off. It leaves the paint super-slick - as slick-feeling as anything else I've used. It beads like a LSP - I'll qualify that a little, too, if I can. I apply this post-wash every time, so I _think_ I've built up a few layers of it, almost like you do with a wax or sealant. Now we all know every subsquent application of anything will, to varying degrees, remove a little of what it's going on - that's just the mechanics of abrasion and chemistry - even when it's the same product topping itself, so I can't be sure this is what's happening (maybe Britemax could expand on this more technically?). All I can report is what I find, and that is I _believe_ the 'real wax content' (as it states on the label, so I presume it's a carnauba wax?), can be incrementally built up with repeated use, and why I see amazing beading and water sheeting on rinse off.

To my eye, and naturally beginning a statement like that it's always entirely subjective, it does give something of the rich gloss that carnauba based waxes generally do.

A final thing to say is: I had Zymol's 'Field Glaze' at the same time as I rediscovered this (which is a great product, don't get me wrong), but ended up selling it because it didn't do anything better than the Britemax.


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

steelghost said:


> They'll break. They just will. And when you let half a litre of spirit based tar and glue remover fall undiluted and unemulsified into the water table, it will do far more harm than any other (highly debateable) benefits you might accrue.
> 
> In other words, no, I haven't


Yep, its an obvious one - been looking at aluminium bottles instead - think these will stand the test of time and have the same, if not more benefits than glass and plastic.


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

VIPER said:


> Since you ask, of course . Unlike some other 'wax-enhanced' QDs it doesn't streak, even if you inadvertantly have it dry on the paintwork during buff off. It leaves the paint super-slick - as slick-feeling as anything else I've used. It beads like a LSP - I'll qualify that a little, too, if I can. I apply this post-wash every time, so I _think_ I've built up a few layers of it, almost like you do with a wax or sealant. Now we all know every subsquent application of anything will, to varying degrees, remove a little of what it's going on - that's just the mechanics of abrasion and chemistry - even when it's the same product topping itself, so I can't be sure this is what's happening (maybe Britemax could expand on this more technically?). All I can report is what I find, and that is I _believe_ the 'real wax content' (as it states on the label, so I presume it's a carnauba wax?), can be incrementally built up with repeated use, and why I see amazing beading and water sheeting on rinse off.
> 
> To my eye, and naturally beginning a statement like that it's always entirely subjective, it does give something of the rich gloss that carnauba based waxes generally do.
> 
> A final thing to say is: I had Zymol's 'Field Glaze' at the same time as I rediscovered this (which is a great product, don't get me wrong), but ended up selling it because it didn't do anything better than the Britemax.


I'm liking the sound of this QD for those reasons stated - will look more closely at this one, thanks!


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## Chubbz (Jul 20, 2016)

VIPER said:


> I did use to get my bottle of FK #425 and decant half into another bottle, top up that with water as I said (I have to use filtered water as our tap water's terrible) which then made me up a litre of class cleaner/treatment, leaving the remaining product at full strength for use as a QD for paintwork duties................this was until I discovered Britemax #6 Spray & Shine which is, by far and away THE best paintwork QD I've found thus far. So now my FK #425 is purely for the glass. duties.


This got me thinking......have you tried the Britemax in a 50:50 dilution for use a glass sealant, as you did with the FK 425? If so, what were the results?

As an experiment yesterday, I took my 75p bottle of Wilko glass cleaner and decanted approximately 100ml into a fresh plastic trigger spray bottle, then added three 'squirts' (scientific I know!) of Sonax BSD before applying to all windows, bar the windscreen of course.

The BSD seemed to prevent the Wilko cleaner from drying too quickly - a quick wipe and buff resulted in a lovely clean and crisp finish. I also want to try this during wet weather when on the move to see if this mix (or a different dilution) may act as well as something like Rain X and those type of products.


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