# Fixed Penalty Notice



## Method Man (Aug 28, 2009)

I was stopped yesterday by a team of gallant crimebusting police for not having a valid tax disc on display.

I couldn't find the damned thing in the car and the heroes weren't interested in doing any kind of check to see if my car was actually taxed.

I was intimidated by four of these kranks and given a fixed penalty notice and a £60 fine and was told it would be voided if my car was in fact taxed.

About an hour later I found the tax disc in my service handbook - I've no idea how or why it was there.

One of the stations I was told to produce my docs to wasn't open at weekends at the other one has actually been closed down.

I did a tour of two other stations and found one which was open only to be told that I had no option other than to pay the fine or go to court.

I was told that the stop was part of a crack down on burglaries - it was 2.35 on a Saturday afternoon and the notice has not been completed properly (officer's details missing).

Is there anything I can do to get out of this - I'm furious with these fools.

I was treated by them like a common criminal and even cautioned ffs.


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## Method Man (Aug 28, 2009)

bmwman said:


> Did you say "notice to owner" direct them to the dvla!


What's that mean chap? It's my car.


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## bmwman (Jun 11, 2008)

Method Man said:


> What's that mean chap? It's my car.


Didn't read your post properly, just deleted the post I put up.... I'd say contact the police on Monday explain the situation see what happens. The admins that sit within the police stations are better off not there. They either can't be bothered or just ask you to fill in a form.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

hmmm - it is a difficult one tbh if i have one word of advice then speak to a motoring solicitor....as technically speaking what they said is right to actually be legal you have to have it displayed as such. whether they will let you off is another point...

even though you have been cautioned you do not have a criminal record...losing in court could possibly give you one..i would seek proper advice, yes i am studying law myself but do not know enough about the RTA to help apart from that it should be displayed to be legal discretion these days is hard to come by sadly.

all forces seem on a drive atm wit hthe amount of hours being reduced so they are trying to earn enough and meet more targets.

oh and ofc the first few hours are usually reasonable with a solicitor so it is worth it whatever you decide to do.


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## Method Man (Aug 28, 2009)

Ninja59 said:


> hmmm - it is a difficult one tbh if i have one word of advice then speak to a motoring solicitor....as technically speaking what they said is right to actually be legal you have to have it displayed as such. whether they will let you off is another point...
> 
> even though you have been cautioned you do not have a criminal record...losing in court could possibly give you one..i would seek proper advice, yes i am studying law myself but do not know enough about the RTA to help apart from that it should be displayed to be legal discretion these days is hard to come by sadly.
> 
> all forces seem on a drive atm wit hthe amount of hours being reduced so they are trying to earn enough and meet more targets.


Ok cheers - will do.

What little respect I had for them anyway has now totally gone.

Brainless thugs in a uniform: they disgust me.


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## J1ODY A (Nov 28, 2008)

How do you forget to put a tax disk in this late on in the month?


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## Weazel (May 29, 2010)

Method Man said:


> Ok cheers - will do.
> 
> What little respect I had for them anyway has now totally gone.
> 
> Brainless thugs in a uniform: they disgust me.


They are nothing more than statute revenue inforcers in fancy dress!:thumb:


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

J1ODY A said:


> How do you forget to put a tax disk in this late on in the month?


Everyone makes errors of fact judgement etc., we are only human - whether we get away with it or get caught is down to luck some get off some do not...some have little to no impact in our lives others do.

personally judging someone for they have done "wrong" i did not think was part of this forum tbh  :thumb:


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## JenJen (Jun 30, 2010)

At least you didn't pull out in front of a coppers car then get pulled over, warned and then worry if you have a criminal record because your studying law


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

Look at all the trouble you would have saved yourself if you'd have put in the screen


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

count yourself lucky you don't have a number plate that is a tiny bit smaller than normal 

Hope you get it sorted out OP...

:thumb:


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## sirkuk (Mar 5, 2012)

It doesn't matter if your car is taxed or not. Failure to display your tax disc is an offense. Other half got done for it when she lost hers. She got a £60 fine for failure to display.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


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## J1ODY A (Nov 28, 2008)

Ninja59 said:


> Everyone makes errors of fact judgement etc., we are only human - whether we get away with it or get caught is down to luck some get off some do not...some have little to no impact in our lives others do.
> 
> personally judging someone for they have done "wrong" i did not think was part of this forum tbh  :thumb:


I was not being judgemental I was asking... but then again I have to do on time as part of my OCD :lol:


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Far too many cars on our roads with no tax, no insurance, not MOT, the bigger the crackdown the better. it does seem odd that you would have your disc tucked away somewhere other than on the screen, hopefully a smack on the hand is all you will get:thumb:


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## Method Man (Aug 28, 2009)

I can only think that I'd taken it out to clean the screen or it had blown out while I'd been doing some work earlier in the year on the central locking.

The one that was in was a Nov 2011 one and I can only assume I'd grabbed that thinking it was the current one.

I can't afford to drive it (it's done 337 miles since 29.07.2011) so I'd have noticed it sooner I'm sure if I'd of used it more regularly.

The way they dealt with it all was unnecessary. I'm stressed out now and was treated like some kind of career motoring criminal.

All they've done is alienate themselves from an ordinary middle-class bloke in his 40s.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Method Man said:


> I can only think that I'd taken it out to clean the screen or it had blown out while I'd been doing some work earlier in the year on the central locking.
> 
> The one that was in was a Nov 2011 one and I can only assume I'd grabbed that thinking it was the current one.
> 
> ...


No need to get stressed, the worst that will happen is a fine. As I said before there are far too many dodgers on the roads and I'm very happy to see them dealt with as harshly as possible, having been recently involved in a horrible accident with an uninsured 44 tonne Artic from Portugal, an accident the police had no interest in you can understand my views on this, if an innocent slip up like yours gets the treatment, then I'm sorry to say that's just tough.


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## Matt197 (Dec 27, 2006)

A simple warning is all that was needed; this is why people don't like the police when they pull stuff like this. A quick check of the system would have told them it has tax.

Had the same thing a few years ago, drove past a traffic car parked up watching traffic when he pulled out and followed me for a mile up the road then pulled me over. Asked why I was displaying an out of date tax disk and that's when I remembered it was at home because I purchased my tax a week before the old one expired. Was told to make sure the correct tax disk was displayed else I might be fined.

We are not robots at the end of the day, mistakes are made and a warning was all that is needed.


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

Always best that they fine the drivers who make honest mistake after having spent their hard earned money on their VED, rather than looking for people who genuinely havent tax 

I forgot to swap the old tax disc out for the new one once, took me about 3 weeks to notice it :doublesho

At the end of the day, as others have said, there is an offence for failing to display so you may still find yourself with a fine unfortunately.


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## trv8 (Dec 30, 2007)

Matt197 said:


> Asked why I was displaying an out of date tax disk and that's when I remembered it was at home because I purchased my tax a week before the old one expired. Was told to make sure the correct tax disk was displayed else I might be fined.


Tax discs have an 'expires on../../..' date ........... not a 'starts on../../..' date.

You can display your new tax disc before the old one expires :thumb:.
No need to wait untill the old disk has expired, to display your new disk.


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## Method Man (Aug 28, 2009)

Matt197 said:


> A simple warning is all that was needed; this is why people don't like the police when they pull stuff like this. *A quick check of the system would have told them it has tax.*
> 
> Had the same thing a few years ago, drove past a traffic car parked up watching traffic when he pulled out and followed me for a mile up the road then pulled me over. Asked why I was displaying an out of date tax disk and that's when I remembered it was at home because I purchased my tax a week before the old one expired. Was told to make sure the correct tax disk was displayed else I might be fined.
> 
> We are not robots at the end of the day, mistakes are made and a warning was all that is needed.


I asked them about this when they pulled me in and they said they had no way of checking it!

They also said that for all they knew I was a burglar driving around in an untaxed vehicle. What a purile thing to say to someone. I'm dressed in a pullover shirt and trousers and brogues and driving a minty clean car, minding my own business and on my way to visit my 91 year old Normandy veteran Grandpa who's on his last legs in hospital.

Christ knows what their idea is of a burglar.

Glorified traffic wardens is all that they are in reality. Every time I've really needed them e.g. when facing assault or mindless yobs attacking my Indian neighbours they've turned up hours later and have been no use at all.

Yet I have four of them surrounding me when failing to display a valid tax disc.


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## Chicane (Mar 31, 2011)

Course they can! They can contact the dvla if they don't have an on board anpr


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

i had a moped stolen years ago and i didn't have the tax disc on it as they kept being pinched. the pc i reported it to tried to tell me that i had incited the crime by having committed one myself....

it took a lot of self control not to swear during my response.

i think they are right on non-display even though it stinks.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

JenJen said:


> At least you didn't pull out in front of a coppers car then get pulled over, warned and then worry if you have a criminal record because your studying law


Who was that? They can't have been paying much attention to ANY of their studies if they think getting pulled over gives them a criminal record! :lol:



Matt197 said:


> A simple warning is all that was needed; this is why people don't like the police when they pull stuff like this. A quick check of the system would have told them it has tax.


Like it or not, no check is needed;_ if_ the offense is 'failure to display' the purchasing (or not) of a tax disk is irrelevant.

I'm not saying it's right....but it's the law.


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## crazysnakeman (Oct 12, 2011)

They can and do check that a car has tax everyday with the ANPR that are fitted to alot of the police cars.

I tend to think the tax disc is so out of date now. There are so many ANPR camera's around the country that I would guess most people will get caught out.

I tends to think that VED should be built in to the cost of fuel, that way the highest users would pay the most and it would do away with a useless bit of paper and at least part of a useless government dept.

The only flaw with this of course is that with the amount we pay in tax on fuel it's been paid for several times over already!


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## G900GTI (May 20, 2007)

Method Man said:


> the notice has not been completed properly (officer's details missing).
> 
> Is there anything I can do to get out of this - I'm furious with these fools.
> 
> I was treated by them like a common criminal and even cautioned ffs.


If not filled in properly, that's your get out clause :thumb:


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## Lee.GTi180 (Apr 28, 2010)

Method Man said:


> Is there anything I can do to get out of this - I'm furious with these fools.
> 
> I was treated by them like a common criminal and even cautioned ffs.


Why are you looking to get out of it? Rightly or wrongly, failure to display is an offence!

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_10021514

See the second to last sentence of the second paragraph of the section titled 'Displaying Your Tax Disc'.

Take it on the chin and move on :thumb:


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## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

The facts of this matter are pretty plain: you committed an offence by failing to display your tax disc, and have been duly fined.

However, you now to seem to think you should have been let off because your an upstanding citizen etc. Which may well be the case, I'm not here to say otherwise.

But, from the coppers perspective, how many millions of different excuses do you think they hear every day? I bet pretty much everyone they arrest/fine has got a good reason why they don't deserve it or didn't do it.

So you need to accept your fine and pay up, or take the case to court and let a judge decide the outcome.


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## Johnboy82 (Nov 12, 2010)

Check your insurance. You don't need to have legal cover for your insurer to provide a solicitor. They generally should provide you with one if you are going to be prosecuted for ANY offence under RTA. But check your policy document.


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## horico (Jul 17, 2010)

dominic84 said:


> The facts of this matter are pretty plain: you committed an offence by failing to display your tax disc, and have been duly fined.
> 
> However, you now to seem to think you should have been let off because your an upstanding citizen etc. Which may well be the case, I'm not here to say otherwise.
> 
> ...


^^this.

And the way you were 'treated' is possibly personal perspective. You were cautioned as that is what has to be done and doesn't mean that you are a criminal rather just that anything you say after the caution is admissable as evidence in court.

Maybe the coppers were arses, maybe you just thought they were (upset about the prospect of a fine) - whatever the case, it's bad luck you didn't have it displayed and got done.

Edit: I believe the PNC does not have tax information, the dvla hold this and it's not as readily available to the cops like MOT, insurance and owner info hence checks not being as easy.

Hope you chill out eventually...:thumb:


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## TubbyTwo (Apr 14, 2011)

Cant really see what the problem is? As already said, taxed or not you commited an offence by failing to display the disc and were fined. So in that respect you have the 2 choices, pay the fine and take it on the chin as lesson learned or pursue it to court where you could end up landing the same fine but also court costs as well.

If your local force is doing an operation to crack down on this sort of thing it will be in the form of a ticket unless the PNC cameras were out, so they can cover as many cars as possible.

Usually where I live its a joint effort with the police and DVLA and sometimes VOSA.


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## crazysnakeman (Oct 12, 2011)

horico said:


> Edit: I believe the PNC does not have tax information, the dvla hold this and it's not as readily available to the cops like MOT, insurance and owner info hence checks not being as easy.


I'm not sure that is strictly true, I assume they don't have up to the minute data, but they certainly have access to recent history data. How many "police camera" shows are there where we see them pulling car's because of it showing no tax or no insurance? a lot.

I also think the attitude of *some* police could be improved, did it really take 4 officers to stop and check the op?

Let me make it clear that the police have a very difficult job, one I don't think I could do. I do however have a few friends that are serving officers, and my brother was an armed response officer for several years.

Much as in any walk of life, the attitude of a few can taint the many, but some do seem to like the power trip it gives them.

Around 10 years ago I was driving home late late one night, around xmas time and I got pulled over. Nothing wrong with the car or my driving, just a routine stop. I had been at the puib with friends and had one pint of beer (and several pints of cola), I blew in the machine and it showed that I was fine. At this point the 2 offices chatted to themselves and questioned if I should be taken to the station for a test as I had admited to having a drink? the lead officer then in a very condesending way said "let's call it your lucky night", there was no need for that at all, and it left me with a bad experience with the police. If it hadn't been for my brother and friends that could have been my opinion of all officers.


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## horico (Jul 17, 2010)

crazysnakeman said:


> I'm not sure that is strictly true, I assume they don't have up to the minute data, but they certainly have access to recent history data. How many "police camera" shows are there where we see them pulling car's because of it showing no tax or no insurance? a lot.


Maybe I was unclear - the bit they don't tend to have to hand is the tax info - all the rest is readily available...


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## crazysnakeman (Oct 12, 2011)

that make sense, I wouldn't expect the DVLA to be able to produce the data real time, there system is one of the worst known to man...


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

trv8 said:


> Tax discs have an 'expires on../../..' date ........... not a 'starts on../../..' date.
> 
> You can display your new tax disc before the old one expires :thumb:.
> No need to wait untill the old disk has expired, to display your new disk.


Indeed, and I thought this was a great post....but appears to be at odds with the advice from the Government!



http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_10021514 said:


> If you buy a new tax disc before your current tax disc expires, you should not display the new one until the old one has expired. The new tax disc is only valid from the first day of the month you have taxed from.


I see they say 'should' rather than 'must'......still odd though!

What are you supposed to do if you're driving down the motorway at midnight?


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## Matt197 (Dec 27, 2006)

trv8 said:


> Tax discs have an 'expires on../../..' date ........... not a 'starts on../../..' date.
> 
> You can display your new tax disc before the old one expires :thumb:.
> No need to wait untill the old disk has expired, to display your new disk.


Not so sure on that one, in theory you are correct but the government say otherwise so you might be braking another law. Always something to catch us out.



Bero said:


> Like it or not, no check is needed;_ if_ the offense is 'failure to display' the purchasing (or not) of a tax disk is irrelevant.
> 
> I'm not saying it's right....but it's the law.


I think we all know its the law, but that's besides the point I was making.

Each situation is different and most police use what's known as common sense but there are always the few that are an exception to that rule and follow the book by the letter regardless.

Is there really a need to be so hard on genuine road users who pay insurance and tax but simply forgot to put a piece of paper in their car? Can understand taking this stance with people who do not pay for either. imo and I'm sure most of you will disagree and argue with me but the officer was being a jobsworth.


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## trv8 (Dec 30, 2007)

Bero said:


> What are you supposed to do if you're driving down the motorway at midnight?


Ha !
A double tax disc holder  :lol: :lol:.


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Method Man said:


> Ok cheers - will do.
> 
> What little respect I had for them anyway has now totally gone.
> 
> *Brainless thugs in a uniform*: they disgust me.


What a pile of crap

I was a brainless thug in a uniform for 10 years then was i?

My wife is a brainless thug in a uniform is she?

No she's a hardworking woman doing a difficult job with a house, me and 3 kids to come home to. She puts away the brainless thugs who rape children and babies. She deals with battered women who are beaten by brainless thugs.



Weazel said:


> They are nothing more than statute revenue inforcers in fancy dress!:thumb:


Erm, no theyre not.

Some are shall we say not blessed with common sense so why not tar them all with the same brush.

:wall:


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## horico (Jul 17, 2010)

Concours Car Care said:


> What a pile of crap
> 
> I was a brainless thug in a uniform for 10 years then was i?
> 
> ...


I wanted to say similar but was dodging the usual argument that now ensues about plod. I hope this thread doesn't go the same way.


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

If it goes that way then it'll just be closed.

Everyone has good and bad experiences but name calling is what i expect from a 15 year old yobbo not grown men and DW won't accept it. Its not the place for public slagging so it can be taken elsewhere 

:thumb:


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## TubbyTwo (Apr 14, 2011)

Concours Car Care said:


> What a pile of crap
> 
> I was a brainless thug in a uniform for 10 years then was i?
> 
> ...


So let me get this right....

The OP is having a little girly whinge and whine because he commited an offence and was stopped by the police for said offence.

So at that point, said OP was breaking the law, and at that point the police were doing their job.

From the attitude of the OPs previous posts Im guessing he gave the PCs some grief and failed the "roadside attitude test" so instead of a warning they hit him with a ticket.

So because of this, he feels the need to insult the police because of his own brain lapse.

Obviously its much easier than admitting a mistake.

I wonder who the OP would phone 1st if someone burgled his house, or stole his car?

Surely it wouldnt be the "brainless thugs in uniform"? afterall they all have better things to do like catch people speeding, or hand out tickets to numptys that forget to display their tax.

If the OP had to deal with the sheer amount of sh*t the police do day and night, and get hammered to hell over pensions, overtime and now pay freezes perhaps his perception might change.

Or perhaps not, afterall police are all Jobsworths arent they, until they are actually needed, then its a different story.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Matt197 said:


> Each situation is different and most police use what's known as common sense but there are always the few that are an exception to that rule and follow the book by the letter regardless.


What can you argue?! The offense is not failure to purchase, or failure to have it in the vehicle, or failure to inform the officer you do actually, really, honestly have a disk but not sure where you put it! There can be NO argument; if you've failed to display your tax disk and you're stopped for failure to display.....you're guilty. The cop maybe did have some attitude...but EVERY single person he has EVER stopped for failure to display a tax disk or no insurance has given him EXACTLY the same excuses.....occasional (in this case) it may be true, in 95%+ it's BS.

As I said i don't agree with the law....and I'd not be happy with the situation.......but calling the DVLA does not change the facts around displaying.



trv8 said:


> Ha !
> A double tax disc holder  :lol: :lol:.


Nope - you're not allow to display the new one until the current one has expired - you'd need and automatic unveiler that functions at midnight.....anyone have the Dragons Den hotline?! :lol:


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

TubbyTwo said:


> and get hammered to hell over pensions,


I was with you until there! It's part of the job benefit and i can except that....but the pensions are LEAPS AND BOUNDS ahead of the public sector.

Getting hammered on pension is trying to retire in the last 5 years and seeing your fund being decimated. Hammered is not being ASKED to contribute more to your inflation proof, cast iron, final salary, huge value per year worked, massive lump sum, received from 50years old....and saying no thank you. :devil:


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## d6dph (Mar 6, 2007)

My best mate (more like a brother) is a police officer, I spent the first three months screaming "Scum!" at him when he left for work........ Totally in jest and he knew it!

95% of the police are average joes like you and I, Why do they get classed as stupid or brainless because of the career they chose to do.

I have no issues if I get pulled over, Generally I have kinda deserved a word. If I have committed an offence, I'll always take whatever comes my way because of it.


Do you hate the postie too as he brings you bills


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## Stumper (Apr 5, 2009)

d6dph said:


> Do you hate the postie too as he brings you bills


:lol::lol::lol:


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## trv8 (Dec 30, 2007)

Bero said:


> Nope - you're not allow to display the new one until the current one has expired - you'd need and automatic unveiler that functions at midnight.....anyone have the Dragons Den hotline?! :lol:


Aaaah, but your current tax disc IS being displayed, so therefore your car is legal, and the new disc is waiting to come into effect when the old one expires . 
Sorry for being pedantic, but I'm bored :thumb:.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Personally why should you display a disc - their T.V adverts suggest they can see an untaxed vehicle even if it's locked away from prying eyes.

Surely if they are that advanced they can tell if a car is taxed or not, surely there are no cars being driven without tax now. Especially since they have their new 'Super Duper Electronic System', they could save a fortune too by not printing them! because they already know which ones aren't taxed.

Crap system, rubbish rules - simple


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

robertdon777 said:


> Personally why should you display a disc - their T.V adverts suggest they can see an untaxed vehicle even if it's locked away from prying eyes.
> 
> Surely if they are that advanced they can tell if a car is taxed or not, surely there are no cars being driven without tax now. Especially since they have their new 'Super Duper Electronic System', they could save a fortune too by not printing them! because they already know which ones aren't taxed.
> 
> *Crap system, rubbish rules - simple*


Maybe, maybe not but the rules are there for all and sundry to see and obey whether you like them or not.
The OP got rightly pulled and warned about not displaying his disc and has subsequently spat his dummy out.


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## horico (Jul 17, 2010)

Bero said:


> I was with you until there! It's part of the job benefit and i can except that....but the pensions are LEAPS AND BOUNDS ahead of the public sector.
> 
> Getting hammered on pension is trying to retire in the last 5 years and seeing your fund being decimated. Hammered is not being ASKED to contribute more to your inflation proof, cast iron, final salary, huge value per year worked, massive lump sum, received from 50years old....and saying no thank you. :devil:


As far as I was aware, they are not being asked. It's happening. Similar to pay freezes, cuts in numbers and a certain mr winsor going to town. People are wrong to shout down the police and their pay, the government is taking a liberty with the safety of the public and using the general doom and gloom to curry public favour and apathy towards the situation.

Drs and nurses, teachers and firemen can strike, why can't the rozzers?

Edit: Actually, I don't care for a discussion as mentioned earlier...

OP: suck it up and pay the damn fine! (said with tongue in cheek).

Off to find more joyous posts to read...


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## Meirion658 (Feb 11, 2012)

If the officer in question had checked PNC at the time of the stop or ANPR then it would have told him there and then if you had a valid tax disc. However this does not cover the fact that you were not displaying the disc, which is the offence that he has booked you for. The officer is right in what he has done. There are so many cars out there with no insurance, tax, MOT and with most if, one element is missing then it can lead to a number of other offences. 
What you must remember is that the Police do a lot of good as well, Family support, deal with Road fatal accidents, London riots etc and so many other things that it would open your eyes to the things that they deal with. Unfortunately the traffic officer is always in a no win situation where he must ensure road safety and punish those who fail to comply. Just bear it in mind that one day you or your family members might need the support and assistance of the Police. There is no such thing as an innocent motorist take it on the chin and move on.


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## Weazel (May 29, 2010)

Concours Car Care said:


> What a pile of crap
> 
> I was a brainless thug in a uniform for 10 years then was i?
> 
> ...


How are they not? I am making a true statement of fact. They enforce legislation otherwise known as Statutes, They enforce them, and what do they all gain? Um, Revenue, hence the fine, and the uniform is fancy dress, does he wear it all the time when he goes home? I don't think so? I am making a simple statement that they are enforcing a Strict liability offence which sole purpose is to gain revenue!!


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Concours Car Care said:


> What a pile of crap
> 
> I was a brainless thug in a uniform for 10 years then was i?
> 
> ...


I resisted the temptation to respond to this rubbish, my soap box is creaking under the weight from my recent activity on here but having also a partner who has just left the MET after twenty years service including the last few years working in a child protection unit all I can say is we know the way it really is and the ignorant don't.

If every vehicle in this country that wasn't displaying tax or out of date tax was dealt with mob handed...good, several thousand uninsured would be outed, take their cars and crush them, safer roads and our policies might just reduce for the first time, plenty on here like to moan and whine about the cost of insurance.


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## dew1911 (Jun 9, 2009)

Bero said:


> I see they say 'should' rather than 'must'......still odd though!
> 
> What are you supposed to do if you're driving down the motorway at midnight?


I asked a copper about this one night at work as I was curious, the boss had given me a new disk for the van but was about 8 days off being needed. He said you could display the new one 14 days before it actually came in. As said above, tax discs only display an end date.

At the end of the day (the sun sets), I put the newest one in with the old one right behind it just incase. Never had any issues.


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

I dont think its the fact of the 60quid fine that really annoys the OP as he was in the wrong but if he's anything like me its the fact that the police have time to be giving out fines like this when people are getting killed, raped, etc.

The police are money earners now, they are told to give out alot of tickets for extra revenue. I didnt used to think this but certain things happening through life just change your view. I have 2 close mates who are police officers and we are always talking about how wrong it is these days.

I mean one night I get a call from my Mum that my dads being attached as he tried to do the right thing and split up a fight between a girlfriend and boyfriend and she has rung the police but they have no one to send and they put the phone down on her 4 times. My brother and I turn up and restrain the guy. Really very annoyed I get the Scoob out and go into town which is less than a mile away, I spot no less than 4 cop cars doing nothing, as soon as I speed past them, their on me like a Hawk and follow me to my parents house. Its situations like this that make you loose all trust in the police and theres alot more situations like that.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Think we have some Sun tag line writers here, "people being murdered and raped whilst police are handing out fines:wall:

Have your Scoob whacked by an uninsured untaxed driver you'll soon be moaning.


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## SurGie (Aug 6, 2010)

The fact is that you can display the old one for five days after it has ended, just as long as the new one has been paid for on the system. So in effect it does not matter if you keep the old one in and fit the new one in a day after, instead of midnight lol.


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## President Swirl (Oct 23, 2011)

Unfinished or incorrectly filled out paperwork= breach of contract on their end ? any lawyer worth their salt would lap up this kind of oversight. Failure to display a disc is an ''offence'' but the mistake was made on their end. You should be fine ( no pun intended )


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

S63 said:


> Think we have some Sun tag line writers here, "people being murdered and raped whilst police are handing out fines:wall: Have your Scoob whacked by an uninsured untaxed driver you'll soon be moaning.


Well its the truth, my family gets attached and they have no one to send but their quite happily sit less than a mile away giving out speeding tickets to the local boy racers. But god forbid I help my family, Im straight in court.

Had my Scoob keyed by someone, sat in the police waiting room for over an hour and when the officer came out he said "oh I was hoping you would had gone if I waited this long" so no I wouldnt moan, as I know from experience its pointless. I would call my insurance, not the police and get it sorted.


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## mrbubba (Mar 20, 2008)

G900GTI said:


> If not filled in properly, that's your get out clause :thumb:


Makes no difference, if it goes to court the ticket will go in the unused material and the issueing officer would be called to give evidence.

The offence as pointed out is failure to display. Tax can't always be checked at the roadside, same as insurance.

Most burglars I deal with drive around in new BMW's, Audi's and not scruffy cars

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Bod42 said:


> I dont think its the fact of the 60quid fine that really annoys the OP as he was in the wrong but if he's anything like me its the fact that the police have time to be giving out fines like this when people are getting killed, raped, etc.
> 
> The police are money earners now, they are told to give out alot of tickets for extra revenue. t.


Having a partner who served over twenty years in the MET I have witnessed and admired her dedication and have shared with her the frustrations of seeing so much good work gone to pot because of our court systems, nothing to do with the police. It was very depressing at times when certain sections of the public maintained a view such as yours, misguided, ill informed, a lot of it influenced by the red top papers but they carry on even when abused, spat at, threatened and unlike a few on here are big enough and disciplined enough to turn the other cheek.

This thread is about a chap who had no tax in his windscreen, allow me to give you a few facts. A car not displaying tax in the majority of cases is a car without insurance and a fair percentage of the drivers do not have a license. Many of these are drug dealers, burglars, benefit cheats, illegal immigrants.

Between 25 to 33% of cars on the UK roads are uninsured. Every premium holder pays a minimum of £30 to help fund the MIB who in turn compensate victims of uninsured drivers ( I'm one of them).

Police do not have the resources to run every car through the NPC to see if it is insured, hopefully the day will come when every vehicle will have to display not only tax but insurance too. So when a copper comes across a windscreen with no tax on display he or she is hoping to find something a little more than just racking up a £60 fine.

Over twenty thousand people are injured every year by uninsured drivers, three people a week are killed, none of these drivers get convicted of murder.

Many murders happen behind closed doors, many murders are drug related. Rape happens in the main behind closed doors, when in the open rarely in a busy well policed city centre but in a remote rural location. Cannot even hazzard a guess how many more police we would need to cover every square inch of our country. An officer nicking someone for having no tax is highly visible, the teams that are dedicated to catching murder suspects and rapists work quietly and relentlessly out of the public eye.

You say you have two close mates that are cops, you are either telling porkies or they are only giving you half the truth.

Next time you see someone being nicked for not having any tax in the screen, that someone might have something more than the lack of tax to worry about.


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

S63 said:


> Having a partner who served over twenty years in the MET I have witnessed and admired her dedication and have shared with her the frustrations of seeing so much good work gone to pot because of our court systems, nothing to do with the police. It was very depressing at times when certain sections of the public maintained a view such as yours, misguided, ill informed, a lot of it influenced by the red top papers but they carry on even when abused, spat at, threatened and unlike a few on here are big enough and disciplined enough to turn the other cheek.
> 
> This thread is about a chap who had no tax in his windscreen, allow me to give you a few facts. A car not displaying tax in the majority of cases is a car without insurance and a fair percentage of the drivers do not have a license. Many of these are drug dealers, burglars, benefit cheats, illegal immigrants.
> 
> ...


My view is far from misguided, ill informed, or influenced by the red top papers, it is from person experience and how my family has been treated following the council deciding to put a Young Person's reibiltation hostel bang smask next to our house and telling us "it will improve your lives. We had to endure being attacked, our barn & house broken into nearly a hundred times, cars smashed up, tyres slashed, etc. I had to watch my family deal with all that stress and the only person who ever ended up in court was my brother so yes I am bitter.

Your right the police dont have the resources to do everything asked of them, exaclty why I get annoyed when I see a police officer who has enough time to sit at the side of the road pulling people over for speeding to make money but cant attend to someone who is being attacked and could possibly be killed.

If the OP didnt have tax fair enough but the OP does have tax and he made an honest mistake and they can check that but they rather make the money. There are thousands if not millions of people out there committing crimes far worse and not having to pay a penny so yes I would be extremely annoyed if I got the same fine.


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

I understand both ides of the argument that S63 & Bod42 express. 

Yes i bet it's totally frustrating for many policemen/women who at many times have an incredibly difficult & dangerous job often with no thanks or gratitude.

However, the police are also revenue collectors in one sense, even though the police don't get the money as i understand. They give penalties on behalf of the government (statutes), who then give it to the bankers who loan the country money - the loan money is securitised by the implementing of statutes.
Unfortunately, the government have to think of new statues used to fine people all the time to pay this money back. If they merely did it through income tax or VAT for eg, it becomes more transparent to the people who will fight the government.

(The above is the quick & simple understanding of how it works from what i've read from numerous researchers)

The police don't make the statutes, they merely have to enforce them so really it's the government that should be getting the flack, the police are merely doing their job.

It's the same how the Person is collateral/security for loans to the country by the private international bankers via the birth certificate.

Sure if a car has no tax has no insurance, then they should be punished, But a fine for not displaying a valid tax disc imo is ott, when the owner (or the police) can easily prove otherwise.
I don't see it much different than the council fining people for putting the bins out on the wrong day!


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## trv8 (Dec 30, 2007)

Bod42 said:


> Had my Scoob keyed by someone, sat in the police waiting room for over an hour and when the officer came out he said "oh I was hoping you would had gone if I waited this long" so no I wouldnt moan, as I know from experience its pointless. I would call my insurance, not the police and get it sorted.


Urm.......... 
Not being funny, but wouldn't you would need a 'crime reference number' from the police, for the insurance company to proceed with your claim.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

you could say the same thing about not wearing a seatbelt The police would pull you over and fine you and you could say/argue what a waste of time as all i have to do is reach over my left or right shoulder and pull a belt into a slot and job done the fact is the seatbelt is there to save you as is the coppers job to check out anyone without tax disc shown etc. 

Everyone has a job to do and if i was in power id get all the troops out of this war and spend the same money that would have been wasted in the next 10 years and spend it on the police, councils, hospitals, schools etc.

I think these days the police and everything that goes with it are the most important thing the public need to work with. And i think they should be the most highly paid even more so the police officers on the front line.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

kh904 said:


> I understand both ides of the argument that S63 & Bod42 express.
> 
> Yes i bet it's totally frustrating for many policemen/women who at many times have an incredibly difficult & dangerous job often with no thanks or gratitude.
> 
> ...


I do not think it is end of the day it is a failure to display a valid tax disc NOT having an up to date disc, whether or not you want to have a problem with whether they could of checked the PNC-DVLA dbs for the tax disc then that is not the problem...


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## LeadFarmer (Feb 23, 2011)

I thought that whilst it was an offence not to display a valid tax disc, the police never prosecute as long as you have one? 

Also, not displaying a tax disc used to be dealt with by a CLE26 ticket, which just informed the DVLA of the matter. As long as you have bought a tax disc then that was that. Im unsure why the op got a £60 ticket (though I havent read all this thread).

Have things changed?


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

LeadFarmer said:


> I thought that whilst it was an offence not to display a valid tax disc, the police never prosecute as long as you have one?
> 
> Also, not displaying a tax disc used to be dealt with by a CLE26 ticket, which just informed the DVLA of the matter. As long as you have bought a tax disc then that was that. Im unsure why the op got a £60 ticket (though I havent read all this thread).
> 
> Have things changed?


still the same, but FPN notices have increased from £30 to £60 - incorrect number plates, seatbelts etc are all £60...yes the DVLA would of been informed of the matter...or you would think so.



> Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 c. 22
> Part III OFFENCES
> Other offences relating to licences
> 
> ...


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## greenwagon (Dec 31, 2008)

At the end of the day the op was not displaying his tax disc his responsibility he got caught committing the offence he pays the fine 

The police man was only doing his job to the correct procedure 

The police do a good job in a difficult envoronment 
And as some one correctly pointed out he failed the atitude test at the time of the offence


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## SurGie (Aug 6, 2010)

Really, well we should be supporting those that paid car tax, not fining them. By giving a fine for not displaying is ridiculous imo. He paid it and did not display, WTF, his car would be on the system, so in essence there isn't really a need to display these days apart from the public need to see it and report them if out of date.

We had to display it years ago because we did not have the current system of ANPR etc. We dont really need to be fining a few that did not display, just a warning is more than enough, 3 strikes and then fine imo, revenue robbing bar-stewards. Over the top this is, plain and simple.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

SurGie said:


> Really, well we should be supporting those that paid car tax, not fining them. By giving a fine for not displaying is ridiculous imo. He paid it and did not display, WTF, his car would be on the system, so in essence there isn't really a need to display these days apart from the public need to see it and report them if out of date.
> 
> We had to display it years ago because we did not have the current system of ANPR etc. We dont really need to be fining a few that did not display, just a warning is more than enough, 3 strikes and then fine imo, revenue robbing bar-stewards. Over the top this is, plain and simple.


End of the day we do not know how exactly the OP dealt with the officers at the time sometimes that can have a lot of impact on how they deal with you.

Yes, it is discretion that decides whether the uniformed officer decides to go ahead and fine or give a warning or do nothing at all.

Whether it is on a system as i have said above is totally irrelevant. The current law is that it needs to be displayed. If the law changes then so be it...i agree with you to an extent but atm it is not within the legislation so failure to display is still an offence.


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## LeadFarmer (Feb 23, 2011)

SurGie said:


> By giving a fine for not displaying is ridiculous imo


But then the only way the police could establish if a car is taxed would be to check via their radio* every *time. And then folk would moan that the police are spending too much time checking if cars are taxed :wall:.

If a tax disc is displayed them they know at a glance. It only takes seconds to slip your new tax disc into its holder.


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## SurGie (Aug 6, 2010)

ANPR is everywhere or is about to be, its about the raking in of fines this country has a habit of, i doubt it will ever change once its part of the culture acceptance.

Going out in the car is a bit like the krypton factor these days, a car near me has been clamped for no tax even though it's on private land.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

SurGie said:


> ANPR is everywhere or is about to be, its about the raking in of fines this country has a habit of, i doubt it will ever change once its part of the culture acceptance.
> 
> Going out in the car is a bit like the krypton factor these days, a car near me has been clamped for no tax even though it's on private land.


yes and when the tax disc was originally envisaged ANPR was not in existence :wall: atm i think there are much BIGGER economic issues than worrying whether you get fined for failure to display a tax disc.:wall:


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## trv8 (Dec 30, 2007)

SurGie said:


> Going out in the car is a bit like the krypton factor these days, a car near me has been clamped for no tax even though it's on private land.


Maybe the owner should've SORNED it then .


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## SurGie (Aug 6, 2010)

Its the principle of it all, the gov made the mistakes and yet we are all paying for it through fines of the extreme.

Maybe he did but the DVLA and their incompetence say they didn't receive it ?


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## mad_pete (Apr 3, 2012)

You should watch Chris Rock's how not to get your ass kicked by the police. In this context consider it how not to get your ass fined by the police. Step one: Obey the law. And that means all the law regardless of if there happens to be a rapist or murderer on the run at time.

I was in a multi story car park and was used to pay on return car parks. This was pay and display and on autopilot I put my ticket in my pocket not my windscreen. Got back £40 fine for not displaying ticket to which I thought yep I've made a mistake there and paid my fine. 

I don't think failure to display is exactly a cash cow for the government and I don't want to pay extra tax funding non finanical forms of punishment.

If you want ANPR to replace tax disc's (although that doesn't stop number plate cloning, the tax disc is harder to fake) write to your MP.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

mad_pete said:


> You should watch Chris Rock's how not to get your ass kicked by the police. In this context consider it how not to get your ass fined by the police. Step one: Obey the law. And that means all the law regardless of if there happens to be a rapist or murderer on the run at time.
> 
> I was in a multi story car park and was used to pay on return car parks. This was pay and display and on autopilot I put my ticket in my pocket not my windscreen. Got back £40 fine for not displaying ticket to which I thought yep I've made a mistake there and paid my fine.
> 
> ...


nothing like it tbh your dealing with completely different areas of law...p & d car parks are interesting situations for agreeing to T & C's and when they are displayed.


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## mad_pete (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm sure the law areas are different. It's the getting a fine for making a mistake in not displaying something in the windscreen elements that I'm suggesting are the common parts.


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