# Paintwork / Bodyshop question - back for 2nd time!



## horico (Jul 17, 2010)

So. The car went back into the body shop yesterdayto have the paintwork that was completed before Xmas rectified. In preparation I washed the car with fairy liquid in order to strip anything on it so as to let me see the true condition of the paint underneath. Even though I requested that the bodyshop didn't wash the car before I picked it up, they still did and left either wax or something like AG SRP on. I know the painted panels had something on due to the beading behaviour which was uniform over the car.

Anyway, when picking the car up originally, I found several fish eyes in the paint and some irregular shading on the front wing. Also, there was a cloudy streak on the door as well as everything being generally dull overall. After speaking with Nick at CD who has seen the car a couple of times and applied the ceramic , it could be that the painters didn't bother wet sanding the door prior to lacquering it to blend everything in. This has then meant that the lacquer has reacted with the ceramic sealant and clouded (possibly).

I took a bottle of water with me and will also do so when I pick the car up in order to check if they have tried to hide anything under a wax etc or similar. When I was pointing out the issues, the guy went away and came back with a rag with something on it and proceeded to try and cover up the blemishes. I asked what the hell he was doing and what it was and he told me it was AG SRP to which I immediately pointed out that all he's just done is cover up the topic of conversation and hide any issues. Bloody idiot!!

Original damage:


















Here are some pics of the issues post original repair, you'll need to look carefully.

Near side shot for comparison, good reflection in poor light.









You should have been able to see the bottle in this shot.









Difficult to spot on camera but look just to the left of the two doors, under the window.









There's the bugger!









Dodgy shading behind the indicator.









And again.









Look closely....









Closer....









Can you see it yet?









If you look at the reflections you'll notice that they are far more worse than the near side shown above. how it passed QC checks I don't know!! A lesson to anyone picking a car up after insurance work - make sure you inspect it thoroughly! I did and booked it in to be rectified there and then.

Here's the question:

I have just called the garage to see what their intentions are and they have said that they are going to re-paint the wing and door and then blend in to the rear quarter thus my car having even more paintwork.

They have said that they weill ensure that it is also shined up as per the original finish (which frankly I don't believe). Are there any other options to rectify it rather than them having to go into the rear quarter? Now, all of the offside of my car will have had paint and I'm not expecting a great finish (although I will expect it to be to a high standard, my luck isn't that good).

Cheers

Matt


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

The only reason there saying, that the quarter panel needs blending. Is because they have already done a blend on the door, and if they blend it again. You could end up with the door looking off colour to the quarter. So yes they are right in what there saying. 
The cloudy patch your seeing in the door could be from where they have blended the base colour in (354 Titan silver) can do this, if not done correctly it will look patchy and floaty in colour.


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

yup as andy said ... if there using solvent even harder !


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

A bodyshop trying (really trying) to be smart and do some Smart ... And it ain't worked!


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## horico (Jul 17, 2010)

Went to pick the car up today and left without it (again!). One issue was completely missed (or reproduced) and the lack of reflection/orange peel had not been improved. I spoke to who was probably the gaffer this morning and he has promised to repaint (again) and 'flat and polish'. This was an interesting discussion as he said that he is not allowed to wet sand so all flatting is done dry as otherwise, the insurance company and manufacturers would be unhappy. They will then DA the car to bring it up again.

He talked of wet sanding as if it was a really naughty thing to do and that 'all these detailers' who aren't bound by manufacturers and insurance companies do what they like.

In the end, I left the car with them for the issues to be rectified and hopefully I can get it back!

Has anyone any experience of the above rules at a bodyshop?


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## CD Cornwall (Aug 12, 2010)

Wet sanding is the traditional method and is by far the best, albeit rather messy. One reason for dry sanding is the ability to use dust extraction which makes the process cleaner. We all do wet sanding at one time or other, so his answer is mystifying.

Cheers
David


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## horico (Jul 17, 2010)

Yes, it was his assertion that bodyshops don't wet sand and haven't done so for years and that this was a rule he had to follow as he would fail inspections and the like, as well as manufacturers stating the finishes should not be wet sanded from the factory! 

I couldn't disagree with him as I have no experience in the trade and my only view was from a detailing side of things. I'd be interested to know what other bodyshops that do insurance work say. 

Matt


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

I work for a bmw approved bodyshop as a car sprayer. 
All the polishing we do is done dry, using a da, firstly done with P1500, then P2000, once that's all done last stage is done wet by da with P3000 trizact discs. The polishing stage will be done with 3M polishing system. But we still a few occasions where we will wet flat paint, we've never been told we can't. Alot of the actual finish on the paint will be down to the actual painter, and if there bmw approved they should be using bmw white label, and bmw pro-clear laquer, because with the approval you use bmw's own make of paint, which actually glasurit labeled up as bmw paint.


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## horico (Jul 17, 2010)

Already, what you've said has contradicted him - I didn't think he was giving me a load of guff but he didn't have much knowledge of anything other than painting etc so no knowledge on detailing methods etc. I think it will just be a case of making sure the car is the same colour down the drivers side (which it isn't at the mo) and having it sorted by someone else. It will be going back to the same detailer that has seen it before to apply the ceramic so I'll speak to him about the best course of action.


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## no1chunk (Nov 18, 2012)

Hiya just make sure wen u get ur car back the rear quarter and front wing match wiv the bonnet and boot and we still wet sand in my bodyshop as the finish is always better we gave the dry discs a try but never liked them so we stayed wet sanding hope it goes well for u fella.


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

horico said:


> Already, what you've said has contradicted him - I didn't think he was giving me a load of guff but he didn't have much knowledge of anything other than painting etc so no knowledge on detailing methods etc. I think it will just be a case of making sure the car is the same colour down the drivers side (which it isn't at the mo) and having it sorted by someone else. It will be going back to the same detailer that has seen it before to apply the ceramic so I'll speak to him about the best course of action.


 Don't mean this to sound wrong or harsh, but doesn't sound like be knows much about paint either. I don't see how they can get 354 Titan silver that wrong, there either using the wrong shade, our system has around five variants. But that said if they do use the bmw paint system the variants will have MPV 1, MPV2 and so on MPV means most prefered variant, which indicates which shade is most popular, but with Titan silver which we paint alot at work we use shade 9B which never gives us problems what so ever, amd matchs perfectly perhaps tey have t used that one. As for you saying it lacks depth of gloss/reflection. Ask him what type of spraygun he is using it will prob be devilbiss or sata, if he says devilbiss these apply laquer with a more fine finish. If he says sata the laquer will be a more heavier finish. I use a sata jet RP for laquer which if used correctly will give you the same finish as the original paint. As already said double check the match on the boot and bonnet to the wing/quarter as these could look darker if there just Planning on apply clear laquer again. To get the correct finish and reflection your after. 
But good luck with it mate hope they get it right for you, any problems just ask I'll help you if I can.


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## horico (Jul 17, 2010)

Andyb0127 said:


> Don't mean this to sound wrong or harsh, but doesn't sound like be knows much about paint either. I don't see how they can get 354 Titan silver that wrong, there either using the wrong shade, our system has around five variants. But that said if they do use the bmw paint system the variants will have MPV 1, MPV2 and so on MPV means most prefered variant, which indicates which shade is most popular, but with Titan silver which we paint alot at work we use shade 9B which never gives us problems what so ever, amd matchs perfectly perhaps tey have t used that one. As for you saying it lacks depth of gloss/reflection. Ask him what type of spraygun he is using it will prob be devilbiss or sata, if he says devilbiss these apply laquer with a more fine finish. If he says sata the laquer will be a more heavier finish. I use a sata jet RP for laquer which if used correctly will give you the same finish as the original paint. As already said double check the match on the boot and bonnet to the wing/quarter as these could look darker if there just Planning on apply clear laquer again. To get the correct finish and reflection your after.
> But good luck with it mate hope they get it right for you, any problems just ask I'll help you if I can.


Cheers mate, that's some good info. BMW recently (well their notts bodyshop) painted my nearside rear quarter and the colour was spot on and the finish / reflection was quite good - especially compared with the current work.

I just wish I was more knowledgeable so I could discuss things with them better. At least I have eyes that work so I'll rely on these when I go and see it again. It will be indoors next time and then it will be moved outside for a comparison...


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