# Help getting better finish with cellulose



## juicy (May 2, 2015)

Hi lads, just signed up here, had no idea there was forum about spraying.

I'm new to spraying and im having trouble getting a decent finish with cellulose paint.

It finishes like 'orange peel' I think the term is unless I do very very thin coats which takes a bloody long time.

Now I understand wet paper with 2000-3000 then polish but is this the only way?

Is it worth me considering swapping to water based paint to save time? 

Thank you lads


----------



## 3gdean (Jun 18, 2011)

orange peel-
check:
the pressure your spraying at
viscosity of paint (add thinners)
distance of gun to panel, speed of action


----------



## phillipnoke (Apr 1, 2011)

Also it has to be over 65 f to spray cellulose


----------



## 3gdean (Jun 18, 2011)

phillipnoke said:


> Also it *has* to be over 65 f to spray cellulose


not strictly true, but defantly optimal conditions
as long as is not frozen,,,add thinners


----------



## juicy (May 2, 2015)

I'm using 50/50 cellulose to thinners,
so I should add more?


----------



## 3gdean (Jun 18, 2011)

phillipnoke said:


> Also it has to be over 65 f to spray cellulose





juicy said:


> I'm using 50/50 cellulose to thinners,
> so I should add more?


It depends on the temperature of your environment, how flat you want it to lay.

you can use it 50:100,,, for a top coat, this will lay flatter (no peel) however will provide little colour coverage.


----------



## supernova-dw (Apr 26, 2014)

Unless your using cellulose paint for a specific reason such as a concourse restoration where the car must be re-finished in the same type of paint that it was made in then I would in all honesty just say don't bother using cellulose paint....

It's old fashioned and times have moved on, it's unreliable, not particularly durable and difficult to use unless your experienced with it. Use either solvent basecoat and 2K Lacquer or 2K Direct gloss paint, much better products, easier to use and better results all round.

What are you painting and what colour?


----------



## juicy (May 2, 2015)

3gdean said:


> It depends on the temperature of your environment, how flat you want it to lay.
> 
> you can use it 50:100,,, for a top coat, this will lay flatter (no peel) however will provide little colour coverage.


North wales so temperatures can vary hour by hour lol
50 paint and 100 thinners are you saying?


----------



## juicy (May 2, 2015)

supernova-dw said:


> Unless your using cellulose paint for a specific reason such as a concourse restoration where the car must be re-finished in the same type of paint that it was made in then I would in all honesty just say don't bother using cellulose paint....
> 
> It's old fashioned and times have moved on, it's unreliable, not particularly durable and difficult to use unless your experienced with it. Use either solvent basecoat and 2K Lacquer or 2K Direct gloss paint, much better products, easier to use and better results all round.
> 
> What are you painting and what colour?


First time I've ever painted, went into autobody shop asking for primer base and lacquer after doing all my reaearch and they advised I use cellulose?

I have a scrap car out back so ripping bits of one at time Purley for practice and I got white paint as I've no actual colour needed it's just practice


----------



## 3gdean (Jun 18, 2011)

base(colour) and lacquer way easier matey.

less issues/to think about.


----------



## juicy (May 2, 2015)

3gdean said:


> base(colour) and lacquer way easier matey.
> 
> less issues/to think about.


Ye I'm getting the picture now lol are there any down sides to using base and lacquer to cellulose?

I know I can get data sheet but what do you use ratio wise for base and lacquer for thinners,base/clear coat and hardner?

Thanks


----------



## juicy (May 2, 2015)

Also is my primer ok or will that be cellulose too so i will need 2K primer and 2K base gloss (so I won't need lacquer?)


----------



## 3gdean (Jun 18, 2011)

juicy said:


> Also is my primer ok or will that be cellulose too so i will need 2K primer and 2K base gloss (so I won't need lacquer?)


if you add only thinners, it is cellulose. 2k primer is better, less issues.

if you add hardener to colour it is 2k direct gloss so wont need a lacquer

if you apply basecoat (water/solvent) you need a 2k clearcoat (need basecoat for metallics/pearls)


----------



## juicy (May 2, 2015)

3gdean said:


> if you add only thinners, it is cellulose. 2k primer is better, less issues.
> 
> if you add hardener to colour it is 2k direct gloss so wont need a lacquer
> 
> if you apply basecoat (water/solvent) you need a 2k clearcoat (need basecoat for metallics/pearls)


Woh sorry still very new to this, I want to do as easy as possible for now with maximum results as I'm just starting out so if possible can you phrase all that so I can make sense of it please of just tell me what I'm best getting.
my zinc primer is 1000 thinner to 250 primer


----------



## supernova-dw (Apr 26, 2014)

juicy said:


> First time I've ever painted, went into autobody shop asking for primer base and lacquer after doing all my reaearch and they advised I use cellulose?
> 
> I have a scrap car out back so ripping bits of one at time Purley for practice and I got white paint as I've no actual colour needed it's just practice


That Is terrible advice then! Go for 2K primer and solvent basecoat and 2K lacquer or solid 2K colour.

Just make sure you have good ventilation and a good mask and you'll be fine, cellulose is a waste of time.


----------



## 3gdean (Jun 18, 2011)

Fresh Start

What car and colour are you painting, what do you need to repair/paint?


----------



## juicy (May 2, 2015)

3gdean said:


> Fresh Start
> 
> What car and colour are you painting, what do you need to repair/paint?


It doesn't matter really,

I have an old corsa b our back that silver and scrap, for practice I'm pulling bits off it and repairing them and spraying them. Just for practice, even if in good shape al still rip off and spray for practice.

So colur at moment doesn't matter I just got willie cellulose so I could see easy where it's thin as primer is grey.


----------



## 3gdean (Jun 18, 2011)

It sort of does. Start with the end in mind.

Its all well and good saying get 2k solids (in my eyes this is the easiest to paint), However you limit your self with colours you can spray i.e. metallics, pearls.


Just get Solvent base coat and a 2k clear lacquer.


----------



## supernova-dw (Apr 26, 2014)

Ok starting from the beginning:

1) get rid of all that cellulose stuff you have

2) go on eBay and search for 2K primer. 2K means it's two parts, I.e. the primer itself and the hardner which you add in at a ratio specified on the can, the job of this is to actually harden the paint, it doesn't dry purely from evaporation but a chemical reaction

3) decide on what colour you are wanting to practice to usr, if a solid colour such as red, yellow or green etc then you can buy some 2K direct gloss, this paint is two part again, the colour itself and a hardner which makes the paint dry, if using this paint the gloss (shine) will come directly from the paint itself and it will provide an instant shine. If you want to use any metallic colour such as silver etc you will need to buy basecoat, this is the colour itself which is then mixed with thinners (to make it thin enough to spray) and applied . once dry it will be a Matt finish (non shiney) so a lacquer needs to be applied over the top. For this you need a 2K lacquer which again is two part .

I hope this helps!

Any questions please ask


----------



## juicy (May 2, 2015)

3gdean said:


> It sort of does. Start with the end in mind.
> 
> Its all well and good saying get 2k solids (in my eyes this is the easiest to paint), However you limit your self with colours you can spray i.e. metallics, pearls.
> 
> Just get Solvent base coat and a 2k clear lacquer.


Well the end in mind is a smooth piece of panel that has decent finish so I can repair scratches, dint and other little problems.

So I will need 2K primer, solvent base (2k?), and 2K lacquer

Can I use cellulose primer with 2k base and clear coat on top so don't waste it?


----------



## juicy (May 2, 2015)

supernova-dw said:


> Ok starting from the beginning:
> 
> 1) get rid of all that cellulose stuff you have
> 
> ...


Yes that makes perfect sense, I will have a look into it now and if I've got any questions I will get back to you. Thanks


----------



## juicy (May 2, 2015)

Is black a gloss colour in 2K? Or will I need lacquer?


----------



## juicy (May 2, 2015)

This look ok anybody?

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/331039447759


----------



## 3gdean (Jun 18, 2011)

dont forget the hardener


----------



## juicy (May 2, 2015)

Yes £8 for 500mg he recons. is £16 good.price for 1lt of 2k gloss? If its cheaper than cellulose too!


----------



## juicy (May 2, 2015)

Also could I use up my cellulose primer underneath 2k gloss base?


----------



## juicy (May 2, 2015)

Ordered these 


2k fast hardner 1L - £16.48

2k universal thinners 5L high quality - £14.89

Kapci 2k primer kit 1.25L (grey) - £14.15

1L jet black 2k direct gloss - £16

This all I need to practice with the gloss black?


----------

