# High insurance for 17 yr olds



## chillly

Hi guys can you tell us why insurance for 17 yr olds is so high? even when they buy every day cars with so little bhp that when you turn the air con on they nearly stop. My son is coming up to 17 and of corse he will want dad to buy him a car. Some of the quotes the guys are posting on here are shocking.

Any one reason for this or is it that they are easy targets? thanks guys chillly


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## Ben_ZS

One word-Unexperienced

Nothing we can do about it but shop around. Although I am 20 and been driving just over 2 years, and the driving I've seen from more 'experienced' drivers it shocking.

The area you live in also has an affect. Just do for him what I done, buy an oldish, low insurance group car and take the premium on the chin, and tell him to be careful. :thumb:


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## fiestaharry

best way, buy a ****ty scooter, get insurance, all legit. dont even tell him you have bought it, let him have it for a year untill he is 17 and insurance will be cheap


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## -tom-

this was in the daily mirror today about insurance hikes


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## Shiny

Nothing to do with easy targets Chillly, actuaries have to predict loss ratios based on statistics and facts. They can't just charge more for a certain feature (ie age) without reason.

Statistically young drivers, especially boys, are a substantially higher risk than say, a 40 year old.

The inexperience is a major factor, coupled with the fact that most teenagers think they are invincible, means often horrendously expensive claims.

The problem is, even with a low powered car, the potential for third party damage is higher and the cost usually a lot more.

When car insurance was my main forté many years ago, i used to use a claim i was involved with as an example. I insured the car and household buildings of a chap who had to make a claim for damage to his car and bungalow. A 17 year, not long having passed his test, clipped the kerb in his 1000cc Mini doing an estimated 60mph in a 30 zone. He took off, went over a hedge, bounced off the roof of our client's car and went through the side of the bungalow into the living room. Luckily our client was asleep in the bedroom at the time, although he woke with a shock!

There was no injury in the case, other than driver having few cuts and bruises, but the claim still ran into thousands. The point i used to make was, even with 50bhp (or whatever it was) Mini, in the hands of a 17 year old could still cause a horrendous amount of damage. OK in fairness it could happen with a 40 year old, but the likelihood is that a 40 year old, perhaps with kids, won't be tearing recklessly around a residential area at 60mph.

There are also a lot of accidents with young drivers that involve injury, both to third parties and also to passengers. These claims can run into £kks, or even £kkks if serious life changing injury occurs. Again whilst there are injury claims involving 40 years behind the wheel, the frequency is considerably less.

I hope this isn't taken as sexist as it is factual, but young females have a cheaper insurance again mainly as a result of the moral and physical risk. Morally they are less like likely to drive like nutter and, whilst claim frequency is possibly as high as the boys, the claims costs are generally substantially less, being things like clips in car parks and low speed impacts.

Hopefully this sheds a little light.


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## Shiny

fiestaharry said:


> best way, buy a ****ty scooter, get insurance, all legit. dont even tell him you have bought it, let him have it for a year untill he is 17 and insurance will be cheap


Unless things have changed, this won't make much difference as rating still works on hwo long a Full UK car licence has been held.

There still may be one or two insurers around who will allow 1 years motorcycle NCB against a new policy, but i wouldn't know for sure with all these Direct companies.


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## trebor127

I was paying £2500 on a 1.2 corsa!!  Still not much better though now at 20 + 3NCB and still paying £1800 on a c2 VTS


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## chillly

Shiny said:


> Nothing to do with easy targets Chillly, actuaries have to predict loss ratios based on statistics and facts. They can't just charge more for a certain feature (ie age) without reason.
> 
> Statistically young drivers, especially boys, are a substantially higher risk than say, a 40 year old.
> 
> The inexperience is a major factor, coupled with the fact that most teenagers think they are invincible, means often horrendously expensive claims.
> 
> The problem is, even with a low powered car, the potential for third party damage is higher and the cost usually a lot more.
> 
> When car insurance was my main forté many years ago, i used to use a claim i was involved with as an example. I insured the car and household buildings of a chap who had to make a claim for damage to his car and bungalow. A 17 year, not long having passed his test, clipped the kerb in his 1000cc Mini doing an estimated 60mph in a 30 zone. He took off, went over a hedge, bounced off the roof of our client's car and went through the side of the bungalow into the living room. Luckily our client was asleep in the bedroom at the time, although he woke with a shock!
> 
> There was no injury in the case, other than driver having few cuts and bruises, but the claim still ran into thousands. The point i used to make was, even with 50bhp (or whatever it was) Mini, in the hands of a 17 year old could still cause a horrendous amount of damage. OK in fairness it could happen with a 40 year old, but the likelihood is that a 40 year old, perhaps with kids, won't be tearing recklessly around a residential area at 60mph.
> 
> There are also a lot of accidents with young drivers that involve injury, both to third parties and also to passengers. These claims can run into £kks, or even £kkks if serious life changing injury occurs. Again whilst there are injury claims involving 40 years behind the wheel, the frequency is considerably less.
> 
> I hope this isn't taken as sexist as it is factual, but young females have a cheaper insurance again mainly as a result of the moral and physical risk. Morally they are less like likely to drive like nutter and, whilst claim frequency is possibly as high as the boys, the claims costs are generally substantially less, being things like clips in car parks and low speed impacts.
> 
> Hopefully this sheds a little light.


Thanks Lloyd for taking the time to Reply and answer. What advice can you give him as to what car and what would be the cheapest way or options to him. Thanks Chillly


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## Nanoman

It's not what he drives but what/who he might hit. Personal injury claims from third parties and hitting a more expensive motor are the big problems. Repairs also cost a lot more these days than they used to.

Goto confused.com and try changing the vehicle a few times you might find that a £2000 car costs £5000 to insure but a £4000 car costs £1000 to insure so is therefor cheaper.

When I sold cars I had a cust who traded in a scrapper of a metro for a brand new Aygo for his daughter - he got a refund of several hundred quid even though the new car was worth thousands more. The reason was the the Aygo was safer to passengers and other road users.

I would also refer you to this thread http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=151418

Passplus and IAM (once he's a bit mroe experienced) are all worth a punt.

Years ago the average repair was a fraction of what it is now and no-one claimed for personal injury. Now repairs are stupid money and everyone claims for everything so even a basic claim costs a fortune.


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## Shiny

Pick a car group 1 to 4 (on the old 20 group scale).

If he is planning on insuring it after his test, there are quite a few insurers that offer enhanced discounts for taking Pass Plus, it nearly always is more than enough to pay for the course.

Older cars are generally cheaper to insure and he can save premium by option for TPF&T as opposed to Comprehensive.

Finally, sell a kidney....

It's expensive, but i still think car insurance for young drivers isn't far off relative to what i was paying 23 years ago at 17. My TPFT car insurance was around 10% of my terrible insurance broking salary. Kids these day earn more in a month than i did in a year! lol!

(EDIT - Grant beat me to most of this  )


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## little john

Just to add to this, it doesn't get better either, when I got my car at first the quotes were £1800 upwards, I wasn't 17 it was 4 years ago and I was 26 I bought a vectra due to the huge boot. I still pay over £800 a year even with my NCD I did manage to find a company who would give me 3 years NCD for driveing company cars and vans for the previous 9 years. OK so its a fair drop but its still a huge premium to be paying out each year and it is going up now not going down.


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## Nanoman

WOW!

I'm £400 for a 2009 Audi A3 sportback sport auto 2.0tdi doing 30000 miles a year with protected no claims. I'm 26 and been driving for 9 years next month. No claims but 3 points for mobile phone use*. I live in a decent postcode area although it's pretty close to Glasgow. 6 years NCB.

Several ways I've found to reduce cost:

Add the Mrs/mother/neighbour/friend - totally legal and often works.
Try adding 1000 miles business use 
Try reducing the excess or moving it up
Try different occupations - 'sales person' and 'retail staff' might give different quotes even though they're the same thing.

Try all different combinations of the above.
I got the cheapest insurance by adding business use, the mrs and reducing the excess to £0 voluntary.


*I was in stationary traffic and answered it to say I'll call back - I can't stand people who use their mobile while driving!!!


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## chillly

Thanks again Guys :thumb:


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## Shiny

Lol, i'm out of touch!  I'd have never of thought that business use would make it cheaper!

It goes against all the principles i learnt, business use = additional mileage = additional exposure. There is far less risk if you car is parked up between 9 to 5 each day.


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## KennyC

chillly said:


> Any one reason for this or is it that they are easy targets? thanks guys chillly


Yep, my sister paid £900 for her first insurance and I was quoted £1700 or something like that on her car (1.1 saxo) even though I had one years ncb (she is 13 months older than me). Insurance groups mean very little for young drivers, it was cheaper for me to insure a 2.0 Sierra that a 1.2 Corsa, how the **** does that work? :wall:


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## Nanoman

Shiny said:


> Lol, i'm out of touch! I'd have never of thought that business use would make it cheaper!
> 
> It goes against all the principles i learnt, business use = additional mileage = additional exposure. There is far less risk if you car is parked up between 9 to 5 each day.


It worked for the Mrs and my brother too. We ended up with bell direct but he went with someone different.

It's like adding a woman - everyone knows they're **** drivers but it makes it cheaper.


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## tom-coupe

few things iv found that various friends have used for insurance. 
1 is some insurances have pay and go insurance eg doesn't use it before 6 in morning and stops at 11 at night. how ever for that one off trip to the airport at 2 in the morning for you sir you can ring them up and tell them. i think the car gets a tracker fitted therefore if it gets nicked too they can find it. 

2. another friend off mine had a pug 306 1.9TD which sounds alot but goes well good MPG easy parts if something needs replacing and group 4 insurance i think. 

3. as said above get a yourself on as a name driver bring it down abit. 

4. try going direct to insurance companies. my first year was with prudential and my 4th year now is with direct line. 

5. good luck


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## pdv40

Back when I was 17, me and a friend had identical brand new Fiestas and she lived within the same postcode as me. She clipped a kerb in hers, rolled it over, took out a parked car, lamp post and someone's front wall, and all three of her passengers claimed for personal injury. When renewal came around, her quote was still cheaper than mine despite me having 1 year's NCB :wall:


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## Nanoman

pdv40 said:


> Back when I was 17, me and a friend had identical brand new Fiestas and she lived within the same postcode as me. She clipped a kerb in hers, rolled it over, took out a parked car, lamp post and someone's front wall, and all three of her passengers claimed for personal injury. When renewal came around, her quote was still cheaper than mine despite me having 1 year's NCB :wall:


Yeah but you've got testicles...


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## pdv40

swings and roundabouts I guess, I'd rather pay a bit more for insurance than bleed for a week each month


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## The Cueball

I saw an article about the difference in women drivers and why they get lower quotes...

Although they do have more accidents, the total cost of the claim is a lot lower than when men crash...

So they are classed as lower risks...

:thumb:


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## Nanoman

The Cueball said:


> I saw an article about the difference in women drivers and why they get lower quotes...
> 
> Although they do have more accidents, the total cost of the claim is a lot lower than when men crash...
> 
> So they are classed as lower risks...
> 
> :thumb:


Yeah, generally speaking the stats say they have more silly little bumps but us blokes tend to do it with style and ruin everything in our way!

*touches wood*


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## jamest

pdv40 said:


> swings and roundabouts I guess, I'd rather pay a bit more for insurance than bleed for a week each month


"I don't trust anything that bleeds for a week and doesn't die." SP classic.

A lot of 17 year olds shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car, I paid over £3k for my first year, second year went down to £1200.

Add a parent with no claims and it should bring it down more than pass plus, but you can't have the 2 together as with a second driver the pass plus is forgotten about. That is not to say the pass plus is useless though, could be very good in the long term, but only if you drive like you are taught. It is all very well learning it but not putting what you learnt in to action and driving like an idiot.

When I phoned up for my latest insurance on the ST, when I said I hadn't made any claims the guy on the phone was genuinely shocked, he said "You are 22 and you haven't crashed.....well done."

That summed up young drivers for me.


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## pdv40

We're a rare breed James, I'm 22 and claim free so far too :thumb:


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## chunkytfg

pdv40 said:


> We're a rare breed James, I'm 22 and claim free so far too :thumb:


Jeez by 22 I had 3 points for speeding in a postman pat van(red with side sliding door! and had 2 own fault accidents:lol:

I am proof as to why insurance is so high for young boys!


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## The Cueball

chunkytfg said:


> Jeez by 22 I had 3 points for speeding in a postman pat van(red with side sliding door! and had 2 own fault accidents:lol:
> 
> I am proof as to why insurance is so high for young boys!


So we can all blame you ya' bugger!!! :lol:

By 22 I had crashed 3 cars - my 309 (3 times), my dads Subaru and his 5 series...I never hit anyone though, just roundabouts and fence posts


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## jamest

Can I claim my money back from you guys then? :lol:


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## Modmedia

pdv40 said:


> swings and roundabouts i guess, i'd rather pay a bit more for insurance than bleed for a week each month


pmsl!


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## chunkytfg

The Cueball said:


> So we can all blame you ya' bugger!!! :lol:
> 
> By 22 I had crashed 3 cars - my 309 (3 times), my dads Subaru and his 5 series...I never hit anyone though, just roundabouts and fence posts


I also had 2 accident i didnt claim for!! I put my first car on it's roof after 2 months of passing my test!


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## Jon Allen

Insurance confuses me

My first car was a metro 1.1 (really slow lol), then after 1 month of driving i changed it for a MG ZR van 2.0 Tdi (its the same as the car ZR but with no back seats or windows), it is quite quick (for me anyway!!) 
The insurance for the metro fully comp was £2450 with my mum on lol. but the ZR is on £1550 fully comp 

So a top tip is buy a van lol:wave:


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## Maggi200

Mine's never been overly excessive compared to some. At the moment mine stands at £450 a year fully comp for a brand new car that's a lot quicker than my first car. What killed me was when an uninsured driver drove into me 4 days after passing my test!


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## Cheesy231

im 18 now and mine hasnt been overly high, i have nearly 2 years no claims. i drive a mk3 golf 1.4, when i was 17 and just passed it wass 896 quid fully comp with a voluntary excess of 150, this is with both parents on the policy, for my second year driving its around the 600 mark, thats without a hire car and legal protection though, as my dad gets legal cover free through work.

my advice? always shop around and go direct, dont pay for anything you dont need, and if you can pay yearly as that saved me a couple hundred quid.


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## k10lbe

All depends on car, area living in and also age, girls normally get a cheaper premium that lads for some reason !

End of the day a young lad on there own is going to think hes a racing driver i know because ive been there and done it lol !

Best way to go is insure the car on his own with a parent on the policy as a named driver and build the no claims bonus up !!!

Im now 21 and own a Mini GP which is group 18 with 4 years ncb for a decent price , so well worth paying the extra to start with


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## hallett

pdv40 said:


> swings and roundabouts I guess, I'd rather pay a bit more for insurance than bleed for a week each month


im in tears :lol:

im not looking forward to the bill when im 17 in 2 months though 

Daniel


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## stedman

Im 20, got 3 years no claims. Never had a bump or claim etc etc.
I saw some stats saying 20% of under 21 year old men would have a claim on their insurance! :O

On the other hand, the other 80% wouldn't...

Im currently playing £1000 on a V70R. 250bhp, 350nm and 0-60 in 6.7 secs (12 years ago  )

NCB is king!


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## p3asa

Just insured my 17 year old daughter on her first car. 
£720 fully comp on an 06 Clio Campus Sport. I think it is a group 4.
I thought it was dear at the time but after reading some of these quotes I think I have won a watch


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## MattDuffy88

I have had a few quotes for an alfa 147 2.0 t/spark (I'm 21), the cheapest i've found is £660 fully comp with 300 excess, the most expensive being over £13,000 (yes thirteen grand). Some insurers just don't want to know so it's always worth shopping around!


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## Elliott19864

Do a Pass Plus course. It halfed my insurance.

£1100 on a 1.1 Saxo, wasn't bad!


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## Maggi200

CupraElliott said:


> Do a Pass Plus course. It halfed my insurance.
> 
> £1100 on a 1.1 Saxo, wasn't bad!


It paid itself twice over on mine, but still wasn't half price insurance  didn't really learn anything on it either!


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## Mick

i did pass plus too when i passed i was with what was then norwich union and they were offering a 46% discount to PP drivers!!!! got the insurance on my 1.5TD corsa from 2400 to 1200 FC :thumb:


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## Mick

also, i would say dont be fooled by getting added to your mum or dads policy i had a mate who did that for the first 3 years, and after such time due to my NCB i was down to about 600 a year, but he was only 20 and had no NCB due to being on parents policy (before direct line and such starting giving NCB to named drivers!) so he ended up with a wee corsa paying 1500 quid whreas if he had bit the bullet at first he would be down to 5 or 6 houndred.


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## jamest

Put one of your parents on as a second driver, will put your premium down.


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## Mick

jamest said:


> Put one of your parents on as a second driver, will put your premium down.


Agreed i do this now (as my mum occasionally uses my motor) and i found it dropped my premium putting her on my policy too


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## Jordan

that your corsa in your avatar mate?

the cost went up as it's been modded?


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## Mick

aye mate thats my corsa in avatar, dont own it any more but aye when a started modding it the insirance hikes were a joke, one of the reasons i got rid, in fact. In the end up after several mods my insurer were unable to quote me on it and i had to go to a specialist company. They were offering reasonable quoptes at that time and even offered to insure my car at an agreed valuation.

My insurance were ok with changing the stereo and even the wheels were ok when i declared them but after the kit they didnt want to know.


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## dsolds

Ah, the joys of getting older. My first car was over 300 quid TPF&T and that was a Ford Anglia 105e :lol: (that's a 1967 42BHP powerhouse to you young 'uns)

But now....
2006 Land Rover Discovery 3. 4.4 V8. £241 Fully Comp.
2010 Jaguar XF 3.0D. £260 Fully comp.
My trusty old 1985 Land Rover Defender 110 V8. £91 fully comp.

Am I being robbed or what ?? :lol::lol::lol:


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## Delboy_Trotter

To right, the joys of getting older, £1148 on std 998cc mini aged 17, same car modified (100% power) with 3 points 5 + ncb (protected) cost 250. Conversly my daily a 18tdi Focus, 3 points, 3 years ncb (second car/policy) with mum added cost 370, i love being 25!


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## ahdinko

Try minor changes in the job title. A "computer engineer" pays about 8% more than a "computer technician" with my insurance.


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## Titanium Htail

My son now 19 is learning to drive, his girlfriend paid about £1800 on her Corsa for the first year, having moved address this year it is down to £800. His mate has a policy for just daylight use and that has reduced the cost overall, with a device in the car to record usage. If you see his R reg 1.L VWPolo, stand back and keep calm.

CT it is then. 

John.


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## alan_mcc

I pay £207 a month on a 1996 1.1 Punto. I'm 18.

I consider myself to be a pretty safe driver, I drive economically (for my benefit, not the environment's..) yet I'm still generalised with those I see wheelspinning their brand new corsas around the circuit.

It's **** but oh well


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## mr-ponting

When I was 17 I had a fiesta mk4 1.25 and the insurance was around £1200

I had an 07 Corsa D 1.7cdti at 18 and that was around £750

I have a 2011 Corsa VXR now at 21 and it's £674 a year with my mods declared

Insurance does start to come down as you get older, my advice would be to go with admiral/bell group. They seem to offer better prices than others, when you use comparison sites like go compare.


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## Schodoodles

Admiral/Elephant/Bell might be worth a look.
They do a 10 month policy that gives a 1 yr NCB and do seem to prefer younger drivers strangely. So only slightly cheaper for 10 months not 12 but the NCB goes up faster. Depends on the premium of course but it's worth a look.
I'm 26 and been with them for last 3 years due to being the cheapest even when using a comparison site.

Is PassPlus worth it? I've had one since 17 and its never helped me get any discount. I remember proudly announcing it over the phone to the insurance comp at the time and the girl said they didn't accept it.


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## Phat Pat

I recently looked at changing my Lexus IS to a Mercedes 320 CLS CDI; I currently pay about £270 fully comp. for the Lexus which includes the usual NCD etc.

My local insurance company which I have to admit has beaten all of the major player’s quotes in the past wanted £1000 per year to insure the Mercedes. The hike in premium was a little hard to believe when you consider that I have not had an accident (only ever had one) in 22 years, live in a rural location away from any major town and have the following driving skills/accreditations: -

Institute of Advanced Motorist award
R.o.S.P.A – Gold Award
DIAmond Advanced Driving award
Defensive Driver Training
Anti-Terrorist (for want another description) Driving Course
Police Class 2 Driving award
Chauffeur Driving Skills
Security Driving Skills (along with forward and reverse 180* manoeuvres)
High Speed Driving Skills (including evasive manoeuvres; similar to AT course) 
Oh, and I looked at one point to take the Cardington test but never did.

One of the reasons I mention all of the above is that when I spoke the insurance company, none of the above made the quote any cheaper. Hard to believe but there you are. I have spent thousands of £’s on becoming a “better” driver and I don’t get any benefits with regards to insurance.

Makes you think…!

I sympathise with the OP, it’s not an easy position to be in in these economically challenged times. I have heard good things re. ingenie telematics device; my friends son has one and he reckons it’s pretty cool. I hope this helps?


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## s.bailey

I'm 33 at the moment, and when I started driving at 17 years and 5 days old, I paid £667 for a D Reg Renault 5 1.4 (not turbo) as my first car to go round reversing into posts etc.

I was reading the news stories about how young'uns can't get insurance anymore due to high costs and thought to myself, 'what a load of rubbish'

So I went on to elephant who I have my insurance with now and got a quote, same details as mine for my Megane, just changed my age so I was just 17 and for a £1000 values Fiesta 1.25.............

Well once I picked myself up off the floor I re-read the Third Party only quote of £7400!!!!!

This is a company that charge me £500 for a brand new Megane Monaco GP coupe worth £21k!!!!

Now when I was 17 I drove like a nob, because I'm a boy and therefore I looked really cool and am just as good as an F1 driver... and most kids today are no different, but £7400 for a car valued at £1000, that is just theft!

Not even sure what the answer is as they've shut the door on being a named driver with your Dad as the main driver to build up a no claims.....

a lot of the blame does lay with people driving uninsured, but them these costs are just going to cause a vicious circle with that!!


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## will3232

When i first passed my test at 17 it cost me £3000 pounds to insure the car for the first year :doublesho . Now im 18/ nearly 19 and it costs me £1600 to insure my fiesta st but that is the same as it would have cost me for my 1.25


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## alan_mcc

You're 18 and drive an ST?!


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## Bero

s.bailey - If it's such blatant theft start your own insurance company, specialise in underage drivers and make millions undercutting everyone else!

The value of the car is 99.99% irrelevant! The risk is in crashing with 4 mates in the car and seriously injuring or killing them....or crashing into a £250k rollsroyce......or lost more likely paying lost earnings when you hit a taxi/lawyer/consultant surgeon. Having a bump at 10mph and getting two whiplash claims against you will exceed the car value >5 times over!

When your insurance take your money you are running about and can quite create a >£1 million claim which the insurance company need to pay for....that's works out as a lot of £7k policies!

will3232 - how come an ST is the same as a 1.25?!


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## will3232

Yep, i have been saving for a while. Its my pride and joy and im driving like an old man to keep my ncb building and points down . Slowest ST driver in england


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## will3232

Bero said:


> s.bailey - If it's such blatant theft start your own insurance company, specialise in underage drivers and make millions undercutting everyone else!
> 
> The value of the car is 99.99% irrelevant! The risk is in crashing with 4 mates in the car and seriously injuring or killing them....or crashing into a £250k rollsroyce......or lost more likely paying lost earnings when you hit a taxi/lawyer/consultant surgeon. Having a bump at 10mph and getting two whiplash claims against you will exceed the car value >5 times over!
> 
> When your insurance take your money you are running about and can quite create a >£1 million claim which the insurance company need to pay for....that's works out as a lot of £7k policies!
> 
> will3232 - how come an ST is the same as a 1.25?!


Haha, i have no idea :S just the way it is. Same insurance company same details etc.


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## Gruffs

In this day and age of computerised records and individual histories, why are individuals not compared against the statistics and given an individual premium based on their own driving? Rather than grouping them in with everyone else?

Answer: It would make less money.


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## will3232

Gruffs said:


> In this day and age of computerised records and individual histories, why are individuals not compared against the statistics and given an individual premium based on their own driving? Rather than grouping them in with everyone else?
> 
> Answer: It would make less money.


+1 eveyrbody is tarred with the same brush unfortunately, i dont see anything changing anytime soon though


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## Bero

Gruffs said:


> In this day and age of computerised records and individual histories, why are individuals not compared against the statistics and given an individual premium based on their own driving? Rather than grouping them in with everyone else?
> 
> Answer: It would make less money.


Insurance is ALL about grouping risks.....a group on one is nowhere near large enough to ride out the ups and downs. Say you drive for two years without having an accident, so you only pay £200 per year...then you have an accident that costs £200,000....so you now pay £14,800 per year for 20 years before going back to £200 per year?! Well that wont work!

If you really want to be in a group of one you can..........you need to personally lodge around £500k that can be accessed to fund any claims against you.


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## The Cueball

Bero said:


> The value of the car is 99.99% irrelevant! The risk is in crashing with 4 mates in the car and seriously injuring or killing them....or crashing into a £250k rollsroyce......or lost more likely paying lost earnings when you hit a taxi/lawyer/consultant surgeon. Having a bump at 10mph and getting two whiplash claims against you will exceed the car value >5 times over!
> 
> When your insurance take your money you are running about and can quite create a >£1 million claim which the insurance company need to pay for....that's works out as a lot of £7k policies!


Saved me typing something similar, thanks... :wall::wall:



:thumb:


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## s.bailey

Bero said:


> s.bailey - If it's such blatant theft start your own insurance company, specialise in underage drivers and make millions undercutting everyone else!
> 
> The value of the car is 99.99% irrelevant! The risk is in crashing with 4 mates in the car and seriously injuring or killing them....or crashing into a £250k rollsroyce......or lost more likely paying lost earnings when you hit a taxi/lawyer/consultant surgeon. Having a bump at 10mph and getting two whiplash claims against you will exceed the car value >5 times over!
> 
> Jesus, didn't realise my opinion would enrage someone so much.
> 
> So if the value of the car is 99.99% irrelevant then I should be able to insure a 70k Range Rover with the same performance as my Megane for the same £500 then yeah?
> 
> We can all go out there at any age and cause havoc on the roads, young people are prejudiced against due to lack of experience and a stigmata that they will all drive like lunatics...my first crash at 17 was when I was rear ended by a 37 year old guy in a Renault 19 16v who thought he could fit through a tiny gap..........bet his insurance was less than mine.
> 
> Anyway just my opinion :thumb:


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## Bero

s.bailey said:


> Jesus, didn't realise my opinion would enrage someone so much.
> 
> So if the value of the car is 99.99% irrelevant then I should be able to insure a 70k Range Rover with the same performance as my Megane for the same £500 then yeah?
> 
> We can all go out there at any age and cause havoc on the roads, young people are prejudiced against due to lack of experience and a stigmata that they will all drive like lunatics...my first crash at 17 was when I was rear ended by a 37 year old guy in a Renault 19 16v who thought he could fit through a tiny gap..........bet his insurance was less than mine.
> 
> Anyway just my opinion :thumb:


I'm not enraged, honest :thumb: :lol: It's just people's 'insurance is evil' and rapes and pillages at every opportunity attitude provokes a response from time to time.

Where in the thread were we speaking about £50k+ cars? The thread is on insurance for 17year olds, there's not many 17 yr olds pimping in brand new RRs?

Although for you perhaps I should have qualified the statement - For a young driver the value of a first car car is 99.99% irrelevant assuming we're talking typical 1st cars, whether it's a £200 bangernomics or £5k+ car; the value of the car is a very small percentage of a potential claim.


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## s.bailey

Bero said:


> I'm not enraged, honest :thumb: :lol: It's just people's 'insurance is evil' and rapes and pillages at every opportunity attitude provokes a response from time to time.
> 
> Where in the thread were we speaking about £50k+ cars? The thread is on insurance for 17year olds, there's not many 17 yr olds pimping in brand new RRs?
> 
> Although for you perhaps I should have qualified the statement - For a young driver the value of a first car car is 99.99% irrelevant assuming we're talking typical 1st cars, whether it's a £200 bangernomics or £5k+ car; the value of the car is a very small percentage of a potential claim.


:thumb: I was just talking from experience, and my point still stands to a degree, I pay £500 fully comp £50 excess on a brand new 21k megane. this is based on no NCB as I have been living in London and not had a car, I have held a licence for 16 years, but on that basis I am seen as a new driver with no NCB. I got quoted £7400 on a £1000 Fiesta 1.25 if I changed my age to 17 at the same address, I obviously had no NCB and that was with a £500 excess. Surely both scenarios would be looked at that I have little to no driving history based on zero NCB or at the best that I have been claiming every year for the last 16 years??

I don't hate my insurance company ,I thought £500 was a steal for my motor, I just don't see how making insurance unobtainable for so many helps when one of the biggest factors in rising costs of insurance ore people being hit by uninsured drivers.

Just another point, made further up the thread, I had 7 day cover insurance from Direct Line when I bought the car, I just had to let them quote me to get it, so did for a free week, when they called I told them I'd gone with Elephant but if they could beat £500 then I'd go with them, the lowest they could get was £1600.....surely if these things are worked out on highly mathematical algorithms etc, how can two companies be so far apart?

Anyway :devil: I'm gonna burn up some young'uns :thumb:


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## Bero

s.bailey said:


> :thumb: I was just talking from experience, and my point still stands to a degree, I pay £500 fully comp £50 excess on a brand new 21k megane. this is based on no NCB as I have been living in London and not had a car, I have held a licence for 16 years, but on that basis I am seen as a new driver with no NCB. I got quoted £7400 on a £1000 Fiesta 1.25 if I changed my age to 17 at the same address, I obviously had no NCB and that was with a £500 excess. Surely both scenarios would be looked at that I have little to no driving history based on zero NCB or at the best that I have been claiming every year for the last 16 years??
> 
> I don't hate my insurance company ,I thought £500 was a steal for my motor, I just don't see how making insurance unobtainable for so many helps when one of the biggest factors in rising costs of insurance ore people being hit by uninsured drivers.
> 
> Just another point, made further up the thread, I had 7 day cover insurance from Direct Line when I bought the car, I just had to let them quote me to get it, so did for a free week, when they called I told them I'd gone with Elephant but if they could beat £500 then I'd go with them, the lowest they could get was £1600.....surely if these things are worked out on highly mathematical algorithms etc, how can two companies be so far apart?
> 
> Anyway :devil: I'm gonna burn up some young'uns :thumb:


No it doesn't, you're NOT 17. Never will be.... It's like having to be 25 (maybe 21) to hire a car. They don't require x years experience, just a minimum age as that's what they (maybe govt.) consider the biggest risk.

Everything you enter adds or subtracts a company specific co-efficient, What's their target market (gender, age, location, import, UK car, modified, job type etc etc et)? Are they trying to make a name for themselves and aggressively grow? Are they struggling to make money from the insurance market and trying to exit it? Are they trying to preserve cash and not increase their claims 'float'. Is one companies attitude to give cheap 1st year quotes and not be nearly so competitive in following years with the hope you just stay with them? Is it a core business they need to protect or something they can drop if margins are not so good? Do we give 7 days free insurance in the hope they just go with us?

As for making it unobtainable....WHY OH WHY does Def Jam make one to one concerts with Rihanna so unobtainable? Or why does Aston Martin make the One-77 so unobtainable? It's a luxury, not a right, if you can't afford it.... c'est la vie, there is many other things that are unobtainable.

In reality it is affordable for most, buy a Criterion 2CV and insure it for very little.


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## alan hanson

still believe youngsters should have graded car powers etc against there ages i know you can still speed in a 1.2 but on other forums i am on all you see is a new thread asking who are peeps insured with.... only to find its a 17-18yr old lad saying his 1.6 isnt fast enough and wants a vxr....


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## Titanium Htail

This is more fun than where I normally post, and this Daddy is buying no Vxr for my boys, although I may sound and drive like Parker from Thunderbirds, that was not always the case and at 19 my GT6 supported the nations insurance industry. 

Now mature, that exuberance of youth should be a phase and seems to be lingering in the speed some take the bend in front of our house, no age limit. We have negotiated down to 1.0 Polo we shall see if the red mist ever arrives, wish me well.

John. 

ps 40 today, just send me the green thing.


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## SurGie

You could go with an insurer that has cameras in your car and you can only drive at certain times, that will lower your premium significantly till you get a bit older and have a few no claims points.


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## Stewerty

Insurance for young drivers is crazy. When I was 17 I had a grp1 corsa 1.0 worth £800 and paid nearly 2k for insurance! But it does all come down to experience and I will admit I had several near misses when I first passed my test but was always lucky enough that I never actually hit anything. I also will admit that I did sometimes drive like I was invincible and took risks that I would never dream of taking now after 4 years of driving. The plus side is that at the end of the month I should have 5 years NCB and will pay £650 for a 2.0 Audi A4 so I can't really complain considering I am still classed as a "young driver".


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## kasman

Just driving home along a country lane, when I noticed a car that was beginning to pull straight out into the road from his drive. No creeping forward or taking it easy, but simply straight out. This would have been ok, except the fact there was a citroen coming from his right (big blind side for him due to a high hedge) and me from his left. 
He only stopped because I lent on the horn and could see what was coming. The citroen stopped within inches to spare.
Having had a girl in the car with him, he thought this was hilariously funny, of course irrespective of what could have been. 
And how old was he....i`ll guess about 18. 
Youngings like this give the other young goodens a bad name, hence the high insurance.

No doubt, if asked the traffic police could give a few reasons why the high insurance as well.
Im all for giving them a CC restriction. Might save a few more innocent lives if nothing else.

On the other side of the coin, Im also a believer of punishing the older`Im the worlds best driver` syndrome!!:thumb:


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## Titanium Htail

The speed I was driving I ran out of luck X2.

Although some poeple ran into me before going very fast at all. I even parked the car and someone smashed into it. 

Can I come out now. John.


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## Jayme_

Its more about the damage they can cause to other people, although everybody is saying females insurance is cheaper than lads, nobody has taken into account what happened on the 21st of December, when all insurance companies had to make it so that they could not charge less due to the persons sex.

Admittely i can see the point in higher premiums for less experienced drivers, but yet again, young drivers can be as dangerous as old drivers. 

This is constantly a point i have to debate about with my friends as im 19 and pay a whopping 2.5k with business insurance, on a p reg peugeot 106. Old people can still be as dangerous driving ridiculously slowly in high speed areas regardless what the car is. 

At the end of the day it will all come down to opinion, if younger drivers continue to drive like fools then they will of course cause themselves a stereotype, insurance is all a big hype to gets people money from them!


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## derbigofast

im 20 2 years ago i was run over and taken off my motorbike the insurance blamed me and my insurance for a 1 litre polo in nearly 2 grand and im in noth of scotland


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## evildiesel

From 17- 25 I was on my mums insurance and never paid over £700 for my insurance. 

Cars included Saxon vtr and bmw e46 convertible even though I know its a bit iffy and frowned upon. Its the only way I could get insured without paying thousands. 

Soon as I reached 25 I went on my own insurance 2008 bmw 118d m sport I paid £680 fully comp with admiral thanks to there named driver no claims. Second year with 1 years no claims and I paid £520. 

My plan was always to get my own policy at 25 due to prices dropping at that age.


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## Sian

evildiesel said:


> From 17- 25 I was on my mums insurance and never paid over £700 for my insurance.
> 
> Cars included Saxon vtr and bmw e46 convertible even though I know its a bit iffy and frowned upon. Its the only way I could get insured without paying thousands.
> 
> Soon as I reached 25 I went on my own insurance 2008 bmw 118d m sport I paid £680 fully comp with admiral thanks to there named driver no claims. Second year with 1 years no claims and I paid £520.
> 
> My plan was always to get my own policy at 25 due to prices dropping at that age.


Thing is they arent doing the "cheaper insurance when you get to 25" any more as its been accused of being sexist


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## Dannbodge

I paid £2.2k on my first corsa which was fully comp and only 3 years old but still.
Pass plus knocked it down to £1700 though.

Honestly I still think 17 is too young to drive. I certainly had some experiences that I have learnt from


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## eatcustard

I paid £250 at 17 for my Yugo...








...Many years ago


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## JakeWhite

I feel lucky after hearing/reading about what some people get quoted now! My first car was a 1.0 corsa c which I insured for £1500 fully comp, seems expensive but when I came to sell it, the lads who were 17 were getting quoted in the 3K region!! I then went onto a 1.6 sport model which was £600 a year (not bad for someone of 18) then I moved onto a 316i BMW which costs me £900 a year which is really good for a 19 year old it seems. But I do sometimes think it's just pot luck as some days I would get quoted 4-5k then 1k then £900. One company even said "If you select the Fully Comprehensive option, we could make your premium as low as £48999.99" urm.....yeah ok!!


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## Sian

Some times is better not to go for the 3 door hatch backs with a 1.2 engine as these are the types of cars that have had the most quotes look at cars that arent obvious for 17 yr old to be driving I can insure my mini for £840 but I can insure James BMW 330 for £700


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## JakeWhite

Sian said:


> Some times is better not to go for the 3 door hatch backs with a 1.2 engine as these are the types of cars that have had the most quotes look at cars that arent obvious for 17 yr old to be driving I can insure my mini for £840 but I can insure James BMW 330 for £700


This is true now, it used to be small engines and small insurance group=cheaper insurance but now that all the small cars are classed as boy racer, it's not the case. My 316 cost me £900 a year but a 328 which has got more than double the power cost around £700


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## Shiny

You can check a cars group rating here http://www.thatcham.org/abigrouprating/

This is what insurers base their group ratings on, although they can adjust the group based on their own claims/loss experience.


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## .Chris

Another tip for anyone else is to say your car is kept on the street, for some weird reason that makes the premium go cheaper  lowered mines by £95 this year lol


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## Mattgeezer

I paid 3.4k at 18... the next year it dropped to 1.1 though! and this year it dropped to 950


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## a.roden

Aviva charged me, £1400 for my 2002 polo e 1.2 when i was 18 with one years no claims. And I enquired about a 2008 1.8 honda civic type s gt in orange, and they said it would be an extra £20 a year :| talk about miscalculations!


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## clarkey1269

Mattgeezer said:


> I paid 3.4k at 18... the next year it dropped to 1.1 though! and this year it dropped to 950


even if i had money burning away in my pocket i would never pay 3.4k for car insurance even at 18.

out of interest what sort of twin turbo'ed/ supercharged car were you insured on for that price :doublesho


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## jamest

clarkey1269 said:


> even if i had money burning away in my pocket i would never pay 3.4k for car insurance even at 18.
> 
> out of interest what sort of twin turbo'ed/ supercharged car were you insured on for that price :doublesho


My first years insurance when I was 17 was a 1.6 Astra sport that was 3.5k. And likewise my second year insurance went down to 1.2k then I changed cars to a brand new Mondeo 1.8TDCi and that was exactly the same (changed midway through the year). Then my third year went down to 800.


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## TigerUK

its not reaally a "sincere" quote, they just dont want to insure 17 year olds so they throw silly prices out to dissuade you, they cant refuse not to insure you unless they have a valid reason like insurance fraud, but because its a legal requirement for drivers to have insyrance the insurance companies have to give you a quote. but some 17 year old are desperate to drive and fork out the cash to get it.


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## Bero

TigerUK said:


> its not reaally a "sincere" quote, they just dont want to insure 17 year olds so they throw silly prices out to dissuade you, *they cant refuse not to insure you unless they have a valid reason like insurance fraud*, but because its a legal requirement for drivers to have insyrance the insurance companies have to give you a quote. but some 17 year old are desperate to drive and fork out the cash to get it.


Not true in the slightest - they can refuse to quote anyone for anyreason they choose, or no reason at all.

However, It is a big risk taking on a young driver, and you can understand insurance being a number of times more expensive than older drivers. I do feel for young drivers though, its a heck of a painful hit to take for the 1st year!


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