# P21S Wheel Gel VS Bilberry wheel cleaner



## nudda (Oct 28, 2008)

Seen some EXCELLENT results with the P21S wheel gel ( http://www.detailingbliss.com/forum/f47/takumi587s-thxgiving-details-2-m3s-528i-6716.html ) but this seems to be more of an AMERICAN product.
The alternative here seems to be bilberry wheel cleaner but I have read this cannot be used weekly.

I know the P21S is non-acidic etc so I assume this will not damage the wheel and can be used weekly.

Can someone advise if I should use P21S or bilberry ?

Thanks


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Bilberry can be diluted a lot, and IIRC P21s cant, so Bilberry is MUCH better value :thumb:

heard nothing but good stuff about the P21s though....


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## nudda (Oct 28, 2008)

thanks.
i am not too bothered price wise ... i dont think it will be a massive amount ... well not enough to justify my wheels getting damaged.

So P21S does not need diluting ... even better I say 

Anyone recommend a better one ?


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## vindaloo (Jan 5, 2006)

nudda said:


> The alternative here seems to be bilberry wheel cleaner but I have read this cannot be used weekly.
> 
> Thanks


Is this right, I use it weekly with no ill effects diluted 1:5, doesn't even remove my sealant?


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## nudda (Oct 28, 2008)

vindaloo said:


> Is this right, I use it weekly with no ill effects diluted 1:5, doesn't even remove my sealant?


Well I read it damaged two different wheels ... not conclusive but worrying none the less.


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## dmc (Aug 17, 2008)

i have been using the p21s on my own cars and cant fault the stuff, although really expensive to use, so ive just ordered the Bilberry to use every other week, p21s wont last you long if you use it inside and out on your rims,


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Bigpikle said:


> Bilberry can be diluted a lot, and IIRC P21s cant, so Bilberry is MUCH better value :thumb:
> 
> heard nothing but good stuff about the P21s though....


Just had 5 litres of P21s Gel delivered, so you can try it if you would like to


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Epoch said:


> Just had 5 litres of P21s Gel delivered, so you can try it if you would like to


you used it on the Veyron wheels didnt you?


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Bigpikle said:


> you used it on the Veyron wheels didnt you?


Nope Dodo BTBM

Carbon brake discs, very little and friendly dust 

We will be on the next one though


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Epoch said:


> Nope Dodo BTBM
> 
> Carbon brake discs, very little and friendly dust
> 
> We will be on the next one though


I remember now - I was in a butt clenching washing routine on the bodywork at the time :lol:


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## nudda (Oct 28, 2008)

guys, where are you getting your *p21s wheel gel* from ? It seems to be available in the US widely but not here.

thanks


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## jasonbarnes (Sep 10, 2008)

here you go mate http://www.performancemotorcare.com/acatalog/P21S_PowerGel___500ml__1145.html hope that helps :thumb:


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## Silva1 (Sep 16, 2007)

I have used it
Its brilliant stuff, althoughwith the reviews I have seen I thought I was in for a big one so dont be too suprised when its not up to the hype
TBH its not worth its money if you plan you to use it on your own car
It does cost quite a bit at £60 but its certainly worth trying :thumb:


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## nudda (Oct 28, 2008)

Jason: That's great - thanks. unfortunately out of stock though !

Silva1 : Thanks for the honest opinion. I guess I will give the 500ml a try and see how it goes. I was really impressed by the use of it on the m3 (the link in my first post) so really want to try it on my bmw msport wheels.

Thanks all


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## Silva1 (Sep 16, 2007)

Happy to help

Heres where I got mine
http://www.theultimatefinish.co.uk/Store/Category/ProductList.aspx?CategoryId=22&ManufacturerId=50


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## nudda (Oct 28, 2008)

Silva1 said:


> Happy to help
> 
> Heres where I got mine
> http://www.theultimatefinish.co.uk/Store/Category/ProductList.aspx?CategoryId=22&ManufacturerId=50


Thanks again

is R222 the same as P21s ?


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## Silva1 (Sep 16, 2007)

Sure is :thumb:

Am sure someone will come along to explain the different names


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## nudda (Oct 28, 2008)

Silva1: Thanks a lot


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## Silva1 (Sep 16, 2007)

Well then ....
Give me a sec and i will try to find a link

Word of warning the red one will destroy one of your 5 senses :lol:


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## nudda (Oct 28, 2008)

Found this P21s power gel --> http://www.johnswax.co.uk/acatalog/Accessories.html

Different bottle so wondering if its any good ?


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## nudda (Oct 28, 2008)

Silva1 said:


> Well then ....
> Give me a sec and i will try to find a link
> 
> Word of warning the red one will destroy one of your 5 senses :lol:


Lol I have heard it smells of eggs. All good fun though 
Thanks for helping me at this time of night!


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## Silva1 (Sep 16, 2007)

Here you go
http://www.performancemotorcare.com/acatalog/P21S.html


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## Silva1 (Sep 16, 2007)

nudda said:


> Found this P21s power gel --> http://www.johnswax.co.uk/acatalog/Accessories.html
> 
> Different bottle so wondering if its any good ?


Mines is cheaper :wave:


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

R222 is the UK saleable name for P21s

The P21s red gel, which stinks of eggs (Sulphur) is the strongest vaiant (German Spec)

The P21s Green one is nolonger allowed for sale in the UK but is the same as the R222.

I got mine from Mark at Raceglaze who was selling off the last of his P21s stock (got some other forgotten gems cheaper too )


There is a non gel cleaner which is weaker but not as good


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## nudda (Oct 28, 2008)

Silva1: Thanks but its outta stock here 

Epoch: Thanks for clarifying the colours, names and strengths. Going to get myself some nice red gel once its in stock


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## OCDMike (Sep 18, 2008)

I use bilberry diluted 1:5, and you can actually see it spread the dirt as you spray it on.

2 of my neighbours keep asking to borrow mine as its so good! :thumb:

I use it 2 - 3 times a week, and think its fine to do so, its a truely amazing product


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## Beancounter (Aug 31, 2006)

For really heavilly soiled wheels, I've found nothing better (and safer) than the P21s Red power gel, I got mine from performance motorcare as posted above.
For cleaner wheels and regular maintenance I use diluted bilberry. I haven't had to resort to anything outside of these two.....and have a 'nearly' full redundant gallon of megs WB as a result.


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## nudda (Oct 28, 2008)

cool, thanks guys.


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