# Workout help please, arms, chest, shoulders



## Clean-my-sxi (Feb 5, 2008)

Basically ive been working out for a long time now but dont feel as though i really benefit from it. As in muscle size.

I work out 3 times a week, mon, wed, fri

My workout starts with weights to warm up - this is where im really not sure what im doing wrong or right, theres far to much info online to know what is crap or not. at the mo i do this but i have chopped and change over time as i found some exercises not really pushing me.

3 circuits of the following - using 2x15 kg dumbells - think thats 34 pound each

15 bicep curls - alternating arms so 15 each arm one after another

15 chin ups - arms spread wide for a fuller workout ???

15 press ups - arms spread wide for a fuller workout ???

15 bicep curls - left and right at the same time

15 bench press - unfortunatley i have to use the dumbells as i have no bar

Really looking for advice with these, maybe theres better exercises to do, should i being doing more, heavier, less i donty know, im in shape but i feel as though i dont really gain anything

Then i do about 30-40 mins fat burning

Finally i do some ab exercises which ve also asked about on another thread


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

as mentioned in other thread of yours, is all about diet.

Plenty of calories, protein AMINO acids & fats etc to get the maximum feed to the muscle etc.

Others will no doubt add to this!


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

You are doing too much isolation exercises (working one body part) and not enough compound exercises (multi joint exercises)

Base your workouts on the following big compound exercises.

Bench Press (Chest)
Bent Over Rows (Back)
Military Press (Shoulders)
Squats (Legs)
Deadlifts (Back, Legs)
Dips (Tricep, Chest)
Bicep Curls - biceps should be pre-exhausted from all the exercises above.

Always start with Squats/ Deadlifts first as they stimulate the greatest use of Growth Hormone in your body.

Do this full body routine, three times a week and try to use barbells & dumb bells where possible, avoid the Smith machine infact avoid any machines where possible. Aim to do three sets of each exercise above with 12 reps with good form. Have a minute or two recovery from each set, taking plenty of sips of water.

Keep a log, diary or knock up a spreadsheet and note what weight you are using each time. With each workout day you should be aiming to squeeze out one more rep than previously (see your log). Once you can do 3 x 15 reps, progress to the next weight till you struggle to complete 3 x10-12 reps.

This full body workout should keep you going for at least 12 weeks or 3 months, then finish off each session with three sets of your favourite ab exercises - lol

It is also vitally important to warm up before attempting to do any exercise (do the weight at 60% -70% effort x 8 reps) before you start your 3 x 12 reps - and make sure you cool down and stretch at the end of the session.

Hope that helps, and click that thanks button!


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

If you can still perform 30 mins cardio after your weight workout - then you need to assess your workout performance and push harder next time.

If you must do cardio - do it on a rest day or weekends.

Hope that helps.

Arnie.


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## Clean-my-sxi (Feb 5, 2008)

only doing cardio for fat burning tbh


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

Anaerobic exercise burns off more fat than aerobic exercise - FACT!

Keep your Cardio and Weights workouts on separate days.

If you must do your Cardio on the same date, keep it HIIT

Press your thanks button matey.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2012)

I believe weighted chins are better than bicep curls as they are a compound movement.


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

BareFacedGeek said:


> I believe weighted chins are better than bicep curls as they are a compound movement.


Now thats what I'm talking about - brill suggestion.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2012)

Tips said:


> If you can still perform 30 mins cardio after your weight workout - then you need to assess your workout performance and push harder next time.
> 
> If you must do cardio - do it on a rest day or weekends.
> 
> ...


Absolutely! You should be royally ****ed after a good compound weight session


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## theshrew (May 21, 2008)

Tips said:


> You are doing too much isolation exercises (working one body part) and not enough compound exercises (multi joint exercises)
> 
> Base your workouts on the following big compound exercises.
> 
> ...


My gym hasnt got any free weights. WHat do you recomend a good workout for use with machines ?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

If you're completing your sets with them weights easily you need big weight increases, ideally you should struggle to do your last rep.


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

theshrew said:


> My gym hasnt got any free weights. WHat do you recomend a good workout for use with machines ?


Sorry to be blunt theshrew, but change your gym if you don't have any freeweights - are you sure there are no dumb-bells knocking about?

If your gym doesn't have the following kit, get out.

Squat Rack
Pull up bars
Olympic Barbell
Multiple sets of Dumb-bells

Also avoid these apparatus at any cost.

Smith Machine
Pec Decks
Abs Roller - lol

Hope that helps.


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

bigmc said:


> If you're completing your sets with them weights easily you need big weight increases, ideally you should struggle to do your last rep.


That's very good advice there.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

a) compound exercises are where it's at... I have a circuit of death that I do, very quick, easy compounds... in and out of the gym before the prancey/work the guns guys get their headbands wet...

b) yes, I agree - change gyms if no free weights... that is not a real gym IMO...

c) you could always just use your body weight to work with 

:thumb:


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## Clean-my-sxi (Feb 5, 2008)

The Cueball said:


> a) compound exercises are where it's at... I have a circuit of death that I do, very quick, easy compounds... in and out of the gym before the prancey/work the guns guys get their headbands wet...
> 
> b) yes, I agree - change gyms if no free weights... that is not a real gym IMO...
> 
> ...


whats ur routine buddy


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

Clean-my-sxi said:


> whats ur routine buddy


Any chance of a thanks before you keep asking for more advice!


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> a) compound exercises are where it's at... I have a circuit of death that I do, very quick, easy compounds... in and out of the gym before the prancey/work the guns guys get their headbands wet...
> 
> b) yes, I agree - change gyms if no free weights... that is not a real gym IMO...
> 
> ...


I love the smell of circuits in the morning! :thumb:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

quick warm up... few stretches

squats

deadlifts

bench chest press

pull ups/triceps dip

Turkish get up

then pick up some dumb bells, pant, throw them down, high five someone and drink my protein/recovery/latest BS shake... right there and then in the gym... 'cause I'm mental....




last bit is just a joke..btw  no Captain Awesome here...  

:thumb:


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> quick warm up... few stretches
> 
> squats
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, I see plenty of Captain Awesome's and the 'I stare at my mobile phone after every set' types in the gym. :wall:


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## Clean-my-sxi (Feb 5, 2008)

thanks all for the info, keep any advice coming.

Cueball, i think im gonna struggle to do deadlifts anf squats as i only have dumbells and no access to a bar, are these as effective with dumbells, surely they are gonna be too light for those


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

Clean-my-sxi said:


> thanks all for the info, keep any advice coming.
> 
> Cueball, i think im gonna struggle to do deadlifts anf squats as i only have dumbells and no access to a bar, are these as effective with dumbells, surely they are gonna be too light for those


I could give you good alternative exercises once you send a thanks my way (hint)


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Clean-my-sxi said:


> thanks all for the info, keep any advice coming.
> 
> Cueball, i think im gonna struggle to do deadlifts anf squats as i only have dumbells and no access to a bar, are these as effective with dumbells, surely they are gonna be too light for those


try using 1 leg only and come back and tell me it's easy  

:thumb:

and for the love of god, thank tips, before he goes mental!!! :lol:


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## Clean-my-sxi (Feb 5, 2008)

i was making him wait


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> try using 1 leg only and come back and tell me it's easy
> 
> :thumb:
> 
> and for the love of god, thank tips, before he goes mental!!! :lol:


Ha ha - I was getting desperate to get to 300 thanks - I was one thanks away from target, I'm a happy bunny now ... and breathe.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Clean-my-sxi said:


> i was making him wait


oooh, that is just mean... you ask for help, get it, then a thank is just being polite.... poor Tips.... making him wait indeed.... 

:lol:


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

I'm ok now - but woe betide anyone who doesn't thank me in future posts when I teter onto 399 thanks.


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

Clean-my-sxi said:


> thanks all for the info, keep any advice coming.


You need barbells mate, a nice 100KG set will do for starters:thumb:, try the 5X5 routine when you have them, use progressive overload technique, The 5X5 is mainly for strength but you'll get big with it too :thumb:

8 Week progress:

Exercise------Starting Weight------finishing weight------weight Increase

Squat-------- 92KG/202.4LB------ 137.5KG/302.5LB-----45.5KG/100.1LB

Deadlift------100KG/220LB-------- 140KG/308LB---------40KG/88LB

Bench Press-- 77KG/169.4LB------95KG/209LB-----------18KG/39.6LB

Overhead Press--40KG/88LB------60KG/132LB------------20KG/44LB

Bent Over Row --67KG/147.4LB---92.5KG/203.5LB-------25.5KG/56.1LB

Check us out on here: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=238868 :thumb:

I've tried various forms of weight training & I have to say Powerlifting is the most challenging & rewarding.

Give yourself to the DaRKside & hate those weights!!!!! :devil::devil:  :thumb:


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

^^^ Is that the 5x5 Starting Strength workout from Mark Rippetoe?

The gains look fantastic!


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## mwbpsx (Jun 23, 2006)

ok its been a loooooong time since ive been near a gym, but, for basic upper body I did (after warm up) the most reps I could do with the heaviest weight I could repeat a minimum of 20 times. Rest for 5 and remove 5Kg from each end. Repeat the exercise. Remove 5Kg, Repeat.........eventually you end up with an empty bar you cant shift (looks hilarious to new arrivals lol) worked for me is all I can say. That was 45 degree incline bench press btw

Mark


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

Tips said:


> ^^^ Is that the 5x5 Starting Strength workout from Mark Rippetoe?
> 
> The gains look fantastic!


No mate, basic 5X5 stronglifts, ive already beaten the above gains over the last few weeks :thumb:

Now on:

Bench press: 100KG/220LB

Squat:142.5KG/313.5LB

Deadlift: 140KG/308LB The same, weight is easy to lift but my grip is letting me down.

Long way to go yet, but im not giving in :thumb:


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## theshrew (May 21, 2008)

Tips said:


> Sorry to be blunt theshrew, but change your gym if you don't have any freeweights - are you sure there are no dumb-bells knocking about?
> 
> If your gym doesn't have the following kit, get out.
> 
> ...


I do have some dumb bells at home.

The membership is for any of the council gyms in the local area. I no one has free weights but thats the one the furthest away from me lol.

The reason i joined is because 1 is 5 min from work so i go for a swim at lunch, another is 2 min from home.

Out of interest whats wrong with machines ?


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

Tips said:


> Sorry to be blunt theshrew, but change your gym if you don't have any freeweights - are you sure there are no dumb-bells knocking about?
> 
> If your gym doesn't have the following kit, get out.
> 
> ...


Now i dont normally use a smiths machine but saying to avoid is bonkers. Its a great bit of kit for alot of different exercises.

Also Pec Decks have their place in most routines.


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

theshrew said:


> Out of interest whats wrong with machines ?


Machines actually make you weak in areas I.E your stabilizer muscles that come into play with any free weight lift. They also make you think you can lift more weight than you really can.

Do your research on the net regarding this & you'll see a plethora of information regarding the pros & cons of machines v free weights :thumb:

If you're serous about your training, you need to look into either purchasing a barbell set or finding a gym that has one.
There is no easy quick way to getting bigger :thumb:

Machines are ok for your finishing sets, but your core workout should incorporate compound free weight exercises.

*Some good core Barbell lifts: Squat, deadlift, Bench Press, overhead press, bent over row.
Bodyweight lifts: Pull-ups, Chin-ups & Dips.*


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

Clean-my-sxi said:


> Basically ive been working out for a long time now but dont feel as though i really benefit from it. As in muscle size.
> 
> I work out 3 times a week, mon, wed, fri
> 
> ...


Theres some good advice here. but first off your weights are too light for some of the exercises, although it could be ok for others plus dont do circuits do sets back to back with little rest maybe 30 seconds.

Your body is getting too long between the same exercise doing a circuit and with the weight too low its even worse.

Hit the 3 sets of chin ups and press ups first too. They will fatigue your muscles faster before hitting the weights. And help to warm up.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

ITHAQVA said:


> No mate, basic 5X5 stronglifts, ive already beaten the above gains over the last few weeks :thumb:
> 
> Now on:
> 
> ...


good for you.. keep going and you will be lifting men's weights soon...

:thumb:



:lol:


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> good for you.. keep going and you will be lifting men's weights soon...
> 
> :thumb:
> 
> ...


:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

PaulN said:


> Theres some good advice here. but first off your weights are too light for some of the exercises, although it could be ok for others plus dont do circuits do sets back to back with little rest maybe 30 seconds.
> 
> Your body is getting too long between the same exercise doing a circuit and with the weight too low its even worse.
> 
> Hit the 3 sets of chin ups and press ups first too. They will fatigue your muscles faster before hitting the weights. And help to warm up.


You'll be lucky to get any thanks for your advice, I had to drag it out of *Clean-my-sxi* - over 1200 posts made and only 1 thank you in 4 years, obviously doesn't find this forum in any way useful or has no manners/forum etiquette.


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

PaulN said:


> Now i dont normally use a smiths machine but saying to avoid is bonkers. Its a great bit of kit for alot of different exercises.
> 
> Also Pec Decks have their place in most routines.


The Pec Deck is a joke of a machine - it's so bad for you I don't know where to start, try google.

The smith machine, however has its place in every gym (great piece of safety equipment lol) but it is generally agreed that better gains will be made with free weights. I've only ever used it for calf raises, but It can be useful for rehabilitation and isolation exercises.

It always makes me laugh when I see the free weights & bench press empty at the gym and all the Captain Awesome's gathered around the smiths machine loading weights and congratulating each other while taking sips of protein shakes.


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

theshrew said:


> I do have some dumb bells at home.
> 
> The membership is for any of the council gyms in the local area. I no one has free weights but thats the one the furthest away from me lol.
> 
> ...


Which council gyms are you with? I live in the Cheshire area like you (Stockport lol) and I use a council gym (Life Leisure centre) but it has a free weights section and more importantly a squat rack and pull up bars.

Your time in the gym is precious, so use it well and use the best equipment you can.


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

Tips said:


> The Pec Deck is a joke of a machine - it's so bad for you I don't know where to start, try google.
> 
> The smith machine, however has its place in every gym (great piece of safety equipment lol) but it is generally agreed that better gains will be made with free weights. I've only ever used it for calf raises, but It can be useful for rehabilitation and isolation exercises.
> 
> It always makes me laugh when I see the free weights & bench press empty at the gym and all the Captain Awesome's gathered around the smiths machine loading weights and congratulating each other while taking sips of protein shakes.


Ive owned a gym for 12 years and been a personnel trainer before that so seen all the Good, Bad and Ugly a gym has to offer.

I dont like using smith machine myself like machines it takes out the technique, but we have a spot on Fly Machine (not exactly Peck Deck) which hasnt got limited movement making it very much like dumbell flys.

Bear in mind Freeweights isnt for everyone, Some people want a lighter style of training saying that our fly machine is aout 70% as good as freeweight dumbell flys which i thinks good for a machine.

Cheers

PaulN


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

PaulN said:


> Bear in mind Freeweights isnt for everyone, Some people want a lighter style of training saying that our fly machine is aout 70% as good as freeweight dumbell flys which i thinks good for a machine.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> PaulN


Agreed :thumb:

Work out what YOU want to achieve out of your workouts.

If its just fitness I see no problem with machines.

If it's bodybuilding/weightlifting/power lifting, then the core Barbell exercises are crucial in your strength/technique development :thumb:

At the end of the day if you're training well done, most can't be assed.

Structure your training according to your goals, keep a daily training log, try to improve upon reps/weight/time taken ect.. Warm up, keep good form & enjoy! :thumb:


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## theshrew (May 21, 2008)

Tips said:


> Which council gyms are you with? I live in the Cheshire area like you (Stockport lol) and I use a council gym (Life Leisure centre) but it has a free weights section and more importantly a squat rack and pull up bars.
> 
> Your time in the gym is precious, so use it well and use the best equipment you can.


Mine is Brio Leasure im in the Mid Cheshire area.

I no one has free weights but but sure exactly what ive never actually been in it. Might look into buying a bar and do a bit at home then.


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

theshrew said:


> Mine is Brio Leasure im in the Mid Cheshire area.
> 
> I no one has free weights but but sure exactly what ive never actually been in it. Might look into buying a bar and do a bit at home then.


Aha - that explains it - you are in real Cheshire & I'm in pretend Cheshire lol.

Scope out the gym with the free weights and give it a try, you might not like it and stick to machines in the end or cancel your membership and join elsewhere with better equipment.

But deffo get yourself a bar, bench and weights if you have the space - you won't look back.

Hope that helps.


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## Killahertz (Mar 8, 2007)

FAO Tips: 

Are you sure about anaerobic exercise and fat burning? Not least that fat burning is essentially an aerobic process that only occurs post glyco-lactic? 

And what about cardio post resistance - the above, when delved a little deeper contradicts that?

It's akin to BCAA: nothing better scientifically, but seen as out of date compared to ad-driven alternatives.

I will add (and admit) that I barely know enough to pose the above questions. I'll equally add that I absolutely agree with your sentiments towards free-weights verus machines.


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

FAO Killahertz:

Muscle burns more calories at rest than fat does, so the more 'new' muscle you build the more you boost your metabolism which helps you to lose weight. 'New' muscle tissue has been observed to burn 35 calories per pound per day, compared to 2-3 calories per pound per day for fat or 5-7 calories for skeletal muscle. 

Anaerobic exercise burns calories long after you have completed your exercise, that's why after you have finished a weights session you can find yourself sweating much later. Aerobic exercise burns calories while you are exercising, so when you step off the treadmill - thats it.

As well as post calorific burn, weight training offers other benefits than just increased calorie burn. If you are reducing calories to lose weight, it will help reduce the amount of muscle you lose in the process. It helps you improve your appearance, decreases joint pain, strengthen your bones and can improve your sports performance. 

To maximise fat burn if that is your goal - start your session with anaerobic exercise (weight training) and finish off with a short burst of high intensity aerobic exercise to deplete any remaining glucogen stores.

I hope I've not confused anyone any more, at the end of the day do what works for you - but if it doesn't work - recognise and change it up.

Hope that helps.


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## theshrew (May 21, 2008)

Tips said:


> Aha - that explains it - you are in real Cheshire & I'm in pretend Cheshire lol.
> 
> Scope out the gym with the free weights and give it a try, you might not like it and stick to machines in the end or cancel your membership and join elsewhere with better equipment.
> 
> ...


Well i hope its ok because it just makes life a lot easier and i can train more with the membership i have. One thing i didnt realise is going to the gym isnt just going to the gym lol

If i got myself some free weights how much weight do you think id need to buy ? would be a good starting point ? As ive never done any free weight stuff before ive not got a clue how much id lift. Ive seen a 50kg set in Argos cheap but ive got a funny feeling id need more than that.

Are weights a std size so they fit all bars ?


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

Tips said:


> I hope I've not confused anyone any more, at the end of the day do what works for you - but if it doesn't work - recognise and change it up.


I added a new exercise to one of my sessions last night, dumbell flys on an Incline bench.

Start off first set flat, increase angle of bench each time for 4 sets then decrease the angle each set for 4 sets till your back flat.

Im might jiggle it around and do 3 then 3 and increase the weight as 8 sets eats the time.

Its just a change from flat bench flys.

Cheers

PaulN


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## Clean-my-sxi (Feb 5, 2008)

Tips said:


> You'll be lucky to get any thanks for your advice, I had to drag it out of *Clean-my-sxi* - over 1200 posts made and only 1 thank you in 4 years, obviously doesn't find this forum in any way useful or has no manners/forum etiquette.


cheeky sod, tbh i forget the thanks button is there i usually just post thanks as i have dont in this thread.

Im rethinking my free weight routine now and i will change up from circuits if that is more beneficial

So do 3 x 15 reps then change to the next exercise
maybe do 5 different exercises
and do this 3 times a week

After ive done my weights i always do some aerobic exercises for around 30 mins to get the heart rate up.

Maybe rubbsih but my bro has the UFC trainer on his xbox and though i have no intention of doing this, i wathced some of the exercises the trainers give, and tbh they actually have some good stuff on there which i may use in my aerobic session to work more core elements


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## Killahertz (Mar 8, 2007)

Tips said:


> FAO Killahertz:
> 
> I hope I've not confused anyone any more, at the end of the day do what works for you - but if it doesn't work - recognise and change it up.
> 
> Hope that helps.


Sure does 

That said, I do use a rowing machine pre weights. Mainly as part of my warm-up, but in the knowledge that it isn't pure cardio, having a resistance element. I'll finish on it too, post weights: the feeling post arm work is great


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## L4CKL (Nov 27, 2010)

i usally do some rowing for 20mins (approx 5000m) then 10mins (5k) on a bike. then move onto free weights.

should i really be doing this the other way round?

not trying to massively bulk up, more lose a little bit of fab, tone up and become a bit healthier.


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## Clean-my-sxi (Feb 5, 2008)

L4CKL said:


> i usally do some rowing for 20mins (approx 5000m) then 10mins (5k) on a bike. then move onto free weights.
> 
> should i really be doing this the other way round?
> 
> not trying to massively bulk up, more lose a little bit of fab, tone up and become a bit healthier.


i dont know alot mate but i would say yes as your body needs to warm up and doesnt burn any fat for the first 20mins, i usually do free weights then move onto leg exercises and then onto some fat burning after


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I don't do weights and cardio in the same session.. I have never seen the point...

If you are there to lift iron, then get on with it, don't waste any energy before or after on cardio...

then on cardio days, or rest days, just do your cardio and forget about weights... your muscles will be fixing the tears that you made the previous day...

:thumb:


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## L4CKL (Nov 27, 2010)

@ cueball....i'm a shift worker, and its not easy to get a routine when working nights, then earlies onto late shifts.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

L4CKL said:


> @ cueball....i'm a shift worker, and its not easy to get a routine when working nights, then earlies onto late shifts.


I understand.. but just pick what you want to do, on the day you are there...

Walk in and say, today I feel like weights...

Don't beat yourself up, or get too upset up routines etc etc...

Nothing worse than being "forced" into something...



Like today, for me... I "should" be doing weights, but TBH, I can't be ar$ed, so I'm going for a swim instead... no biggy, no loss and I am doing exactly what I want..I'll pick up the weights another time....

:thumb:


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## L4CKL (Nov 27, 2010)

cheers cuey, back at the gym tommorrow...that will be my weight day.


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