# Need a new boiler please help



## shane_ctr (Dec 17, 2006)

I have a 5 bedroom detached house that was built in 2010. The property has a Logic Heat 24 (Heat only) Boiler. We have a Large Megaflo hot water cylinder upstairs. We noticed that the pressure gauge was at 0 bar I filled it back up to 1 bar and noticed in a couple of days it was at 0 again. I rung a local plumber and he took a look and thought it was the expansion vessel so he changed the expansion vessel and put a new PRV on at the same time. He topped it up again to 1 bar and we had hoped the problem was fixed. we kept an eye on it and a few days later it was back on 0 bar again. We called the plumber back he took the cover off the boiler and we saw some rusty water marks on what I am told is the heat exchanger. He said he couldn't go any further as he is not GAS SAFE registered. I spoke to another company who came out and said he believed it was a cracked heat exchanger and for the cost of replacing the part we would be better to replace the boiler. So we got three quotes from local companies list below.

*Quote 1 *

To drain down, disconnect & remove the existing gas fired boiler. 
Supply & install a Worcester Bosch Greenster 24RI heat only boiler in the same location as existing. Boiler will include a Worcester system filter on the return feed. 
Re use and connect onto the existing heating mechanical and electrical controls. 
Fill up the central heating, flush and test. 
Upon completion commission and register the boiler with the manufacturers and gas safe.

*£2,526.00 INC VAT*

*Quote 2*

* Strip out and dispose of the existing gas fired boiler and horizontal flue and remove them from site
* Supply and fit a Worcester bosch 30RI Heat only boiler back in the same position.
* We will supply and fit a new horizontal flue back up through the same position the old flue was installed.
* We will Alter the Flow and return pipework to suite the new boiler and connect into the existing system
* We will install a Worcester approved magnetic filter on the return pipe to the boiler to prevent and contaminates entering the boiler, this is also a requirement for the boilers warranty.
* We will reconnect onto the condense waste pipe from the boiler into the drain were the washing machine discharges to.
* We will reconnect onto the existing electrical controls.
* Upon completion we will heat flush the complete system to remove any contaminates and refill the system adding x100 inhibitor.
* We will commission the boiler and fill out all the warranty paperwork and issue a gas safety certificate. We will register the boiler with Worcester and issue a 7year parts and labour warranty.

*£2,138.40 inc VAT*

*Quote 3 *

Remove existing Gas fired boiler. Make good as required.
Supply and install Viessmann 100W Vitodens 26kw compact condensing boiler with horizontal flue kit. (Boiler including 5-year warranty.)
Connect onto existing flow and return pipework within utility room.
Install magnaclean central heating filter above boiler to help protect new install.
Connect onto existing gas pipework to feed boiler.
Connect onto existing condense pipework and install washing machine standpipe in utility sink cupboard.
New boiler to be connected onto existing boiler wiring and controls, pump over run to be wired.
Power flush central heating system adding chemical cleaner. Add corrosion inhibitor to prolong the life of the boiler.

*£2497.66 INC VAT*

We are planning to add a 3m x2m extension off the kitchen in the next few years which will require 1 more radiator or underfloor heating which we told each company to make sure the boiler could cope. You will see we have been quoted different boilers with different powers. I am edging towards Quote 2 not only because its the cheapest its because the boiler has the longest warranty and has the most power.

Please can you help and advise or recommend as my head is hurting with all the information?

My brother in law has been a plumber for the same company since he left school 20 years ago. He now installs water softness for the same company so he is no longer GAS Safe registered. He has told me I could supply the boiler he will fit it and then his company will charge me £150 to come out make the final connection, commission, set up the boiler and supply me with a GAS safe certificate. Is this legal? is he allowed to install it not being GAS safe registered providing it is signed off by a GAS Safe engineer?

Please help.

Thank you in advance


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

I think this answers your question - particularly the bit in bold near the bottom of the first page:

https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/media/1449/who-can-legally-work-on-a-gas-appliance-factsheet.pdf

I'd tend to go for the bigger boiler because - and I may well be totally wrong here for gas boilers - I prefer the idea of something big running just above "tickover" to something small working it's guts out.

Hope that helps.

Andy.


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## shane_ctr (Dec 17, 2006)

AndyN01 said:


> I think this answers your question - particularly the bit in bold near the bottom of the first page:
> 
> https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/media/1449/who-can-legally-work-on-a-gas-appliance-factsheet.pdf
> 
> ...


Thank you Andy, I am thinking the same go for the bigger boiler as it will not be being pushed as hard.

I have just lifted this from the HSE.GOV website

Can I use a plumber to install the appliance and then have the gas work fitted by a Gas Safe registered engineer?
A non-registered person may carry out 'wet work', ie install water pipes and radiators for a heating system, but any work on the gas boiler itself and the final connection of the water pipework to the boiler, must be done by a Gas Safe registered engineer link to external website.


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

Shane,

I was in exactly the same situation Dec 2017 as you are. 5 bed house with a heat only boiler & a megaflow unvented cylinder.

We in the end upgraded to a Valliant Boiler, we also installed 2 x new zone valves as these have a tendency to fail, a new grundfos pump & as standard with ALL new boiler replacements, a magnaclean. Total came to around £3300 off the top of my head.

Regards the boiler size. I've been told bigger is not always better - boiler work more efficiently at higher rates, so if the boiler is only working at half capacity, this will not always work out as more cost effective.

Hope this helps


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## GSD (Feb 6, 2011)

If he isn’t gas registered he broke the law taking the cover off didn’t he ?


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## shane_ctr (Dec 17, 2006)

GSD said:


> If he isn't gas registered he broke the law taking the cover off didn't he ?


I am unsure on this as reading the HSE.GOV site it seems I can get a plumber who is not GAS SAFE registered in to fit the boiler and to carry out the wet work but he can not make the final gas connection as this will need to be done by a GAS SAFE engineer.


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## GSD (Feb 6, 2011)

I’m just going on that twonk Mat Allbright on Watchdog when he’s spying on the dodgy trader through the hidden cameras he always says as soon as he takes that cover off he’s breaking the law.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

You do not want to install a boiler that is too large for your property. We had this issue in our previous house (A rental). The builders had bought a job lot of boilers and they were waaaaaaay over capacity for the house in question (a modest 4 bed). As a result, the bloody thing would cut in and out constantly all day and all night. I can't see that something doing that is conductive to long term reliability. 

A professional installer will know how big a boiler to install. Maybe go slightly over (maybe you will convert the garage or install a conservatory etc) but don't massively so.


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## nbray67 (Mar 22, 2012)

GSD said:


> If he isn't gas registered he broke the law taking the cover off didn't he ?


Inspection covers can be removed but anything to do with removing covers from the combustion chamber has to be done by a competent person, eg: Gas Safe.


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## dholdi (Oct 1, 2008)

nbray67 said:


> Inspection covers can be removed but anything to do with removing covers from the combustion chamber has to be done by a competent person, eg: Gas Safe.


That's kind of correct but also not.
On some boilers the outer cover seals the combustion chamber and on others there is another cover under that does.
Is a plumber competent to assess and determine which type it falls under ?
I would suggest not and it should be left to a competent person as the law states.


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## G.P (Dec 13, 2011)

I can see why your confused, 3 quotes all with different specs.

For me I'm not a fan of 24kW boilers as I feel they can struggle when demand is high however, is/was your old 24kWh satisfactory for the property and your needs.

I'd decide which plumber gave me the most confidence and get him back and quiz him, once the rating is decided then maybe get the others to re-quote to the same rating. Could also get a 4th quote just to find out what raring is suggested, and hopefully it matches one of the others rating.

To get the price down further you could also consider different boiler manufactures.

Good luck..


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