# *UPDATED Incredible Detail - G|Techniq C1 Swirl Resistance Test : DB9 Very Soft Paint



## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

****UPDATED - THURSDAY 21ST APRIL 2011 - SEE PAGE 6 AS RAN OUT OF SPACE IN THIS POST***

*www.incredibledetail.co.uk : Scotland's only Gtechniq accredited detailers - meaning we're able to offer Gtechniq C1 applications with 5 year warranty (3 years on used cars).*.

I previous spent around 40 hours detailing and paint correcting this car. The write up of this can be found on my blog here and on detailing world here










When I was detailing it I realised that the paint was very soft. In fact the softest I'd ever came across. It marked very easily and made tasks such as buffing off polish and wax difficult to do without marring the paint.

I've no idea why some manufacturers make their paintwork so soft. Although all the other soft paints I've came across (including my own car) can be kept in great condition if they're washed with the care. This one however would be quite hard to keep perfect.

Some paintwork is the complete opposite and is very easy to keep swirl free - although obviously if you don't take care then you can easily inflict swirls and scratches in to the hardest of clear coats.

To give you an idea of how soft the paint is - it marked when dusting it off with this:










The mark it left was very light and would be very difficult to see under the sun gun or in direct sunlight - but it was there. The reason I noticed the mark is because the garage door was open and the sun was directly on the quarter panel which instantly showed up the marks as I wiped it gently across the panel to remove dust.

As usual, I explained to the owner after detailing it the best way to look after his car. I also mentioned that the paint was the softest I'd came across so I would expect it to show some light wash marring even if he was very careful.

I returned to see the car after it was put away for the winter. I never took any pictures of the wash marring (or swirl marks) that were inflicted as I never intended on doing a write up on this.

As expected, the car had quite a bit of wash marring. I could see it was very light but due to the colour of the car it was quite obvious under the sun gun and would be in direct sunlight. The owner and I found it quite disappointing that the car that was perfect when I left had these light marks on it despite the utmost care being taken when washing.

To try and solve this problem it was decided that we would try Gtechniq C1 as it claims to have "swirl resistance". I'm in no doubt of the durability of this product as I've heard from reliable sources of it lasting 2+ years on a car. However I had no real proof of it's "swirl resistance" and had never seen any detail of a proper test being carried out.

It does say on the Gtechniq website that there has been test but there is no actual comparison - C1 info on Gtehniq website can be read here










So because I didn't have any proof I never mentioned swirl resistance or make claims about it if a customer wants C1 on their car. With all products I use I am honest with customers regarding what to expect from them, so having never tested this I couldn't honestly say if it worked.

This customer understood this fine and was happy to try it as obviously there was nothing to lose. So I ordered some C1 from Rob @ Gtechniq and lightly polishing the car to remove the fine swirl marks - they came out very easily as expected with the lightest of polishes.

After the car was perfect I wiped it down IPA and started applying the C1 half a panel at a time.



















Because C1 sets rock hard quite quickly the applicator need to be changed after every panel or two. It turns the applicator hard and this can scratch the paint. I've heard reports of people having difficulty applying this on soft paint without marring it so obviously that was a concern here. Luckily I didn't have any problems with this.

One possible problem with marring paint when applying it is using the wrong side of the applicator. Doing this will mark the softest of paints if they are otherwise perfect.

One side is soft :










And the other is textured :










Applied










Then wipe over gently with new microfibers to remove any excess - not buffed off. The microfibers also go rock hard so the same procedure with the applicators is followed.










Whilst doing this I constantly checked the paintwork with the 3M sun gun to ensure it was perfect and no marring was being put in - because of the soft paint and also because of reports of this happening.

I also applied Gtechniq C4 Permanent Trim Restorer to all trims.










So now the car was as perfect as could be.










Except from one door was waxed, instead of applying C1.

Driver's door - with C1










Passenger door - without C1










Both perfect and free from any defects.

I then decided to do a quick test on the scratch resistance. After the test I would coat the passenger's door with C1 I wouldn't leave a customer's car like this.

Please bare in mind that this car is already spotlessly clean so there is no dirt to get dragged along the surface when washing it - although this wouldn't happened anyway due to a thorough pre-wash (snow foam etc)

Brand new wash mitt










Car snow foamed and rinsed - not really needed but done anyway.



















The uncoated door (passenger side) was washed first. This is the first time the perfectly clean mitt had touched a car. The mitt wash was loaded up with soap and water and then gently wiped across the door. No pressure was used.

I then rinsed the mitt out and done exactly the same on the drivers door. The rest of the car was not wash because, as mentioned it was already clean and hadn't move from the garage so didn't need it. Also I didn't want to risk marring the reset of the car after I'd just corrected it all. If the driver's door marked here I would correct it and re apply C1 to that too.

After washing the car was taken inside and was blown dry with a leaf blower. I didn't need to touch the car at all as all the water just flew off it - because the panels were so well protected.

The results.

Drivers Door (coated with C1) under 3M sun gun










Under metal halide lighting



















As you can see - Perfect. No marks at all.

Passenger door (not coated with C1) under 3M sun gun










Look at the bottom right of the door - very light marring. Almost impossible to see but it's there.

Under metal halide lighting




























As you can see. Very light wash marring. In fact very difficult to pick up on the sun gun and even on the camera on with the metal halide light. It wouldn't be that obvious in direct sunlight, but it is there and this is after gently rubbing a brand new wash mitt across the surface.

Now by doing this test (and posting it) I'm sticking my neck on the line as it might look like I'm saving I can't wash a car without inflicting even the finest of marks in it. However in my opinion it would be impossible on this car as the paint is so soft. It's almost impossible to manage and it tested me greatly whilst working on it (buffing off polish, wax etc).

I wouldn't think that all black DB9 are this soft. I've came across (seemingly) identical cars from other manufacturers made in the same year, with the same colour and the paint hardness has varied. I don't understand the science of this to be perfectly honest but I can only assume it's to do with the mixture of hardener, how it's painted and cured etc - which you would think would be identical on two cars from the same place.

I can easily and often do wash loads of cars, even with soft paints without inflicting any forms of swirl marks and wash marring. In fact anyone can if they do it properly and take care.

This DB9 is obviously an extreme example here but it goes to prove that C1 does help toward preventing swirl marks - which was the point of the test.

In fact if your wash routine is not perfect and you don't want to spend the time washing your car perfectly and not inflicting any marks then C1 will help prevent swirls.

I'm not giving the above conclusion from this simple and short test and I didn't leave one door uncoated for an on going comparison. So...

I coated half of my own car with C1.

Full write up of the paintwork correction detail of this car can be seen here.










My car is perfect for this test because the paint is fairly soft and it's a solid red colour so if I inflict swirl marks they will show up fairly easily. Additionally, both quarter panels were painted at exactly the same time so the paint on them is the same - i.e the same hardness.

I can wash my without inflicting any marks but that wouldn't really make for a good test. Also not everyone will want to spend the time washing the car safely.

So I washed the car without too much care. I didn't use a dirty sponge or anything "crazy" like that but I didn't take the normal care with the pre rinse and washing the mitt out after every panel etc. I done enough to ensure I'd be able to inflict some marks and properly test the C1.

Now showing cars and swirl marks etc under artificial lighting is all well and good but we don't look at cars like that in every day life. Luckily I managed get some picture of both sides in direct sunlight which shows the difference.

Obviously the car was not washed right before the pictures as the sun is rarely out here and I was hurrying to get pictures.

Un coated side :



















As you can see there is light swirls and marring from washing. Not as obvious in the first picture but still visible if you know what your looking for. It was quite hard to capture it on the camera and to be honest most people wouldn't spot these at all - obviously I have an extremely critical eye for "swirl spotting".

Coated side :



















Not 100% perfect. If you look really closely you will see a few marks. It is however no where near as bad as the other side. As you can see a few marks this should prove the car is in direct sunlight.

In fact I doubt the majority of people that view these pictures will be able to see the marks and they wouldn't be able to spot them in person.

So the car was washed and taken inside to be inspect with the sun gun.

Uncoated side:










Light swirl marks obvious.

Coated side:










Now I'll be totally honest and as you can see in the direct sun pictures, there are a few minor marks on this side. It's not perfect but they were impossible for me to pick up on the camera.

As mentioned I didn't take too much care when washing the car so some marks were to be expected as this was needed to make the test worth while. I'm fairly confident had I taken more care the side coated with C1 would be perfect and the other side would have very light marks which would be hard to pick up.

So I can now honestly say that C1 does offer resistance against swirl marks. These examples have been on cars with very soft paint and soft paint so I'm not sure how much difference they would offer on cars with hard paint. Obviously this depends on how hard the coating is.

I must add the swirl resistance isn't one of the main selling points of C1 and it also has outstanding durability so even if it doesn't make much difference to cars with hard paint then it's still an option if you want what is possibly the best protection out there on your car.

I'm not totally sure but I do think that the marks inflicted on my car are likely to be in the C1 coating itself, rather than the clear coat of the car. If this is the case it means to remove these marks in the future I would only need to polish off the C1 and re apply it - rather than polishing the clear coat - thus preserving the life of the paint. There are loads more tests I plan to carry out so this may be checked at some point.

I'm still happy with waxes and will be using them as normal on the majority of my details. This however is just another option for my customers - mainly ones with very soft paint or those that want something that is very durable and easy to maintain.

If you want the best look I'd recommend a wax and then have the car re waxed every few months (depending on usage etc). Obviously this is subjective and is just my personal opinion. I do beleive that wax will stick to C1 so you can have the best of both worlds and I'd image if you keep topping up the wax then the C1 won't diminish and should last even longer - which would mainly be of benefit for people having this applied on their car for swirl resistance.

Thanks for reading and I hope you found this as intersting as I did.

Just to add that I corrected the passengers door on the DB9 an applied C1 to it just in case you thought I forgot!

*_________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

****UPDATE - SUNDAY 13TH MARCH 2011****

The DB9 is booked in to Aston Martin on Monday so it was decided that it would be best if the cars was immaculate to prevent (or minimise the risk of) the wing covers that the mechanics will most likely put on marking the paintwork.

Putting them on a dirty surface would just cause the dirt to rub about on the paintwork. The car is being picked up via enclosed trailer so no need to worry about it getting dirty on route.

So I went along today to simply wash the car and test the Swirl Resistance of the C1 a bit more thoroughly. To recap from above, a brand new wash mitt marked the paintwork when wiped over (very gently I might add)the door on this car. This was the door not wearing C1.

I didn't expect C1 to be 100% scratch/swirl resistant and I did expect some very light marring due to washing - although no where near as bad as it would have been without C1 on it.

Anyways, on with the wash.

Car on arrival:




























As you can see. It wasn't too dirty but needed a wash to look it's best and for the reasons mentioned above.

Wash process was as follows:

Brand new mitt again










Car rinsed
Snow foamed
Rinsed
Snow foamed
Wash with 2 bucket method
Rinsed
Taken inside and blown dry

Spotless mitt after washing










As usual, I made sure I had rinsed every single inch of the car before I started to ensure the surface was as clean as possible. When washing I used no real pressure and let the mitt glide gently over each panel.

So after taking the car inside and drying it I set up the lighting and tried to replicate the pictures in the first part of this review as closely as possible.

N/S Door




























I was amazed. There was no wash marring on the door at all. I did expect the lightest bit that would be almost impossible to see but there wasn't any. It was 99% perfect.

The reason I say 99% perfect is because there was a light mark from where the door had been shut - obvioulsy this is when the door was dirty.










This was quite useful as it really highlights how the rest of the paintwork around it is perfect and that no tricks of the light are being used. For those that can't see it, the mark is diagonally down to the right of the lock (around 5 o'clock)

O/S Door



















No marks around the door here as the owner is very careful with how he opens and closes it.



















Bonnet - Perfect










Boot - Perfect










So there you have it. This car has the probably the softest/most easily marked paintwork possible and was, as you can see from the first part of this review, impossible to wash inflicting the finest wash marring marks.

It's now wearing Gtechniq C1 and that problem has been solved. It can now be washed without marking it at all.

I'm pretty delighted with the outcome of this test and never honestly expect it to be this good.


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## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

Have to say that I have noticed these properties for a while now, although haven't come across paint quite as soft as that! Very good metal coating for polished exhausts too 

Very good and honest write-up. :thumb:


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## slrestoration (Nov 11, 2009)

One hell of an interesting write up mate, even more so due to its honesty. 
Thanks for taking the time out:thumb:


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## rodders (Jul 8, 2008)

Thanks for the write-up, great topic. Will have to try C1 myself now.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2011)

Fascinating write-up. Thanks for posting :thumb:


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## Buck (Jan 16, 2008)

Thanks for posting this - very interesting to read and start to understand more about c1 etc.


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## paranoid73 (Aug 5, 2009)

Very informative write up, I would love to have c1 applied to my Civic Type _R_ as the black splitter section are so soft ans imposable to maintain. They were fully corrected & sealed then foamed and rinsed and one pass with a new mitt and marked instantly.


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## B&B Autostyle (Apr 4, 2010)

Proper informative write up. Bookmarked to study again later. Thanks!


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

A very well wrote and informative read there, thanks for giving your thoughts on it, and this is the first time i've saw such an in-depth write up and pictured proof of the claims. Have always been impressed by the sound of C1 now i'm 100% more impressed.


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## CJR (Nov 4, 2010)

Very interesting post to read, can't believe the softness of that DB9 paint, i would be constantly worried about it! Great to see that the C1 really helps though.


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

Looks very good Rob, and definately what you needed for the DB9, hopefully now the maintenence will be a lot easier for you in the future


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## orienteer (Aug 17, 2009)

Great test, thanks for your time and effort.

It would be an investment:

http://www.theultimatefinish.co.uk/gtechniq/c1-crystal-lacquer.aspx

How many cars does one 25ml bottle do?

If it works well it would definitely be good for black cars that can be a pain in th'hoop!! :thumb:

Ian


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## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

orienteer said:


> How many cars does one 25ml bottle do?
> 
> Ian


One (or two small cars at a push). :thumb:


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## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

Very informative read, and now has me contemplating C1 myself...with wax on top, because I like waxing 

Seriously though, thanks for posting this :thumb:


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## nicp2007 (Apr 25, 2007)

very nice write up mate, some very good info :thumb:


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## Roy (Jan 17, 2007)

Thanks for posting this Robert, some really soft paint there!!


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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

Wow that paint was soft..along the lines of the Kuro Black on Nissan's GTR by the looks of things.

Great informative read even for a fellow C1 user:thumb:

Will be interesting to hear your thoughts & findings as/when you go back to do a top-up or enhancement


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## ads2k (Jul 12, 2006)

A great write up and very informative with your own findings :thumb:

Thanks for taking the time to do all the tests and then compiling it all for all to see on DW.


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## paranoid73 (Aug 5, 2009)

orienteer said:


> Great test, thanks for your time and effort.
> 
> It would be an investment:
> 
> ...


I think there is a post somewhere about this, I'm sure this is a mistake, as they are not allowed to sell this to the public.


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

A most informative write-up - many thanks.


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## Black Magic Detail (Aug 17, 2010)

a very good read ,thanks


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## gtechrob (Sep 11, 2006)

nice post Robert - never easy to get a good shot of this kind of thing but those really do illustrate the swirl resistance of c1 :thumb:


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## horned yo (Feb 10, 2009)

Excellent write up


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## Eurogloss (Jan 22, 2008)

Nice write up and info Rob :thumb:
Thanks for taking the time to explain the C1's swirl and scratch resistance !

Best Regards 

Mario


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Thats certainly incredible soft paint, great work and test write up...:thumb:


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## 3976 (Nov 20, 2006)

Thanks for posting, great to hear a good honest report on a product's claim.


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## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

Chris_VRS said:


> Wow that paint was soft..along the lines of the Kuro Black on Nissan's GTR by the looks of things.
> 
> Great informative read even for a fellow C1 user:thumb:
> 
> Will be interesting to hear your thoughts & findings as/when you go back to do a top-up or enhancement


Cheers Chris. The idea was to also help C1 users.

I've got loads more tests I'll be doing with it so will share info as and when but not sure when I'll get a chance - including testing nanolex to see if it offers any form of scratch resistance - although it's not marketed as having any.

To be honest I was expecting more comments on how soft the paint was and maybe feedback from other people about how they deal with it. Obviously I don't claim to know everything but I don't think there is any way possible I could have done anything different to the DB9 or been more careful to prevent marring when just touching it with the mitt (no pressure was applied).

As mentioned the marks were very light. I forgot to say that they polished out using Carlack NSC which is a pre-wax cleaner so I didn't even need to use a fnishing polish to remove the fine marks.

The main reason for this test was so that I could see if this product really worked and offer customers the best service possible. If I spend ages paintwork correcting a customers car then I want them to be able to keep it as good as possible for as long as possible. Very soft paints have always annoyed me and it's seem C1 has in a way solved this.

Thanks everyone for all the postive feedback and comments. It took me ages to type this all up so it's good to hear it's appreciated. I could have kept this to myself and used it as a selling point for C1 (which is current working well) but I thought I'd share it as hopefully it's helpful to people and this is what Detailing World is all about.


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## GrEyHoUnD (Oct 9, 2010)

Brilliant write up, i never even considered the gtechniq range until reading that. 

I have two questions though...

Firstly, why are the bottles so small?!

Secondly, i love to wax my car so is it alright to wax over the top of the C1? It'll be while yet before i invest (if i do) because i have other products in my collection to use first but you gotta ask the question havent you


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## thejagtech (Jun 17, 2010)

Incredible detail, it is refreshing for a fellow pro to be so helpfull and giving to others, like you say this is what detailing is about! That said i find it very hard to have the time to take pictures during a detail let alone test and evaluate products and procedures so i understand why other pro's dont! Well done a great write up!


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

GrEyHoUnD said:


> Brilliant write up, i never even considered the gtechniq range until reading that.
> 
> I have two questions though...
> 
> ...


the reason the bottles are so small is your really need very little. i have a TON of plastic on my Qashqai being a mini 4x4 crossover type thing, plastic all round the bottoms of bumpers and arches, and quite a bit.
bought 25ml of C4 and used HALF!! i was shocked it needed so little. the stuff just spreads and spreads mate. so large bottles would last a lifetime if you werent a pro using it on multiple cars.:thumb:

you could wax over c1... but it would dull the properties of c1.. so useless to do so, would mean the beading, sheeting and dirt protection would be less.


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## paranoid73 (Aug 5, 2009)

It would also cost about £1480 for a litre


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## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

thejagtech said:


> Incredible detail, it is refreshing for a fellow pro to be so helpfull and giving to others, like you say this is what detailing is about! That said i find it very hard to have the time to take pictures during a detail let alone test and evaluate products and procedures so i understand why other pro's dont! Well done a great write up!


Thanks. I've spent quite a bit of extra time on this car (and my own) doing various test etc. This was for everyones benifit really - including this customer and other customers as it will allow their cars to stay in better condition for longer.

Pics etc don't add too much time unless of course your taking one of every single step. Sometimes it can be a bit difficult to get the camera to capture the defects but if it's taking too long I just won't do it or only do a couple.

The harder ones to capture are very light wash marring like the bits on this aston. It is so light and the halide lights are so harsh I really think even pro detailers may have struggled to see them in the sunlight. It was quite difficult to get the camera to pick these up and added a good bit of time but was worth it.

It easy to take picture of defect on most paints if you've got the camera in your hand and you move it about a bit but I always try and use a tripod and manually focus on before and after shots so there are in exactly the same postion with the same focus etc and truelly show what's been done with the paintwork correction. I could easily have taken a picture of that door making it look perfect if I move the angle of the camera (also because it was difficult to pic up) but obviously the point of the post was for me to be totally honest and admit that I had caused wash marring because the paint is like butter and that C1 helps with this.

I don't really need to take pictures on tripod to show real before and afters to prove anything but in my opinion pictures in exactly the same position make the write ups look nicer and are better for showing before and afters.

It doesn't make a difference to me or my customers (I always ask before taking pics etc) if I spend a bit of time taking picture because it never means less time on the car. It might mean the job takes a bit longer but I'll never leave until the job is done properly anyway so it's not like I'm messing about taking pictures and wasting time that could be spend on the car - as some people seem to insinuate.

I'm pretty sure most pro's that take loads of pictures will have the same attitude / approach :thumb:


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## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

GrEyHoUnD said:


> Brilliant write up, i never even considered the gtechniq range until reading that.
> 
> I have two questions though...
> 
> ...


The bottle size doesn't really matter as long as it's enough to do the car.

Why buy loads more than you need if the product is very expensive. I wouldn't buy the 500ml one because the savings aren't good enough for bulk purchasing and it doesn't make business sense to have that cash tied up in a product. Also I'd be gutted if I spilt it!


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## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

CraigQQ said:


> you could wax over c1... but it would dull the properties of c1.. so useless to do so, would mean the beading, sheeting and dirt protection would be less.


Yes I agree it goes a very long way hence the small bottles.

Going with your assumption that waxing over C1 will dull the apperance then I'm guessing you think waxing any car will dull the appearance?

Wax isn't clear and gives different results on different colours etc. There are not really any "properties" of C1 for it to dull as C1 is totally clear and will look rubbish on a car that has loads of swirls and scratches. You make the surface perfect - or as close as you want and then put C1 - after an IPA wipedown to make sure the surface is 100% clean.

In my opinion waxing on top of C1 will add to the finish. It will affect beading sheeting etc but may make the coating last even longer if it's not exposed.

It does depend on why the C1 is on there though. If it's mainly for swirl resistance then waxing on top it would make more sense - as this would protect the coating further.

All in my opinion of course. Each to their own and obvioulsy everyone can and will do what they want. :thumb:


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## Dionysus (May 18, 2010)

Incredible Detail said:


> In my opinion waxing on top of C1 will add to the finish. It will affect beading sheeting etc but may make the coating last even longer if it's not exposed.


+1 to waxing on top of C1. The other thing to consider is that a glaze/wax will provide some filling properties to a C1'd car that may help fill minor wash marring.

We also own a car with 'butter-soft' metallic black paintwork (a stereotype-breaking VW) that has been professionally corrected and C1'd.

On the one wing and one door that I have tested DJ LPL and BOS above the C1 I have to say that I noticed little difference in the beading/sheeting compared to the 'bare' C1'd panels.

Once the weather has improved I intend to go over the whole car, with the exception of the nooks and crannies where wax residue could be left behind , with LPL & two coats of BOS. To restore the 'self-cleaning' attributes of the sealant, I intend to seal the wax, once cured, with C2 QD.

This may seem a little OTT, but, as suggested by the OP, the objective to waxing is to protect the C1 coating as well as provide some filling ability that using C2 QD to maintain the C1 alone would not.


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## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

First post updated with pictures after the first wash of the DB9.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

Incredible Detail said:


> Going with your assumption that waxing over C1 will dull the apperance then I'm guessing you think waxing any car will dull the appearance?


i think you misread that mate.. i said dull the *properties*.. meaning dirt repellence, sheeting and beading which is what c1 is best for.. and this was backed up by KDS and rob and pete that waxing ontop isnt necessary and you would be covering up the c1 so it wouldnt have the properties i just stated..


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

Dionysus said:


> +1 to waxing on top of C1. The other thing to consider is that a glaze/wax will provide some filling properties to a C1'd car that may help fill minor wash marring.
> 
> We also own a car with 'butter-soft' metallic black paintwork (a stereotype-breaking VW) that has been professionally corrected and C1'd.
> 
> ...


won't lime prime shorten the life of c1? its got abrasives in it... so its almost like polishing c1 surely?


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## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

CraigQQ said:


> i think you misread that mate.. i said dull the *properties*.. meaning dirt repellence, sheeting and beading which is what c1 is best for.. and this was backed up by KDS and rob and pete that waxing ontop isnt necessary and you would be covering up the c1 so it wouldnt have the properties i just stated..


Yes I did misread that. My mistake.

You say C1 is best for dirt repellence, sheeting and beading but the point of my test is that it's best for "swirl resistance". It wasn't applied to this car because of it's good beading and sheeting.

You don't have to say "KDS and rob and pete that waxing ontop isnt necessary" as if trying to prove me wrong. Please don't try and pick holes in my review which I typed up to try and help people with soft paintwork.

I'm fully aware it isn't necessary and I never stated that it was, nor did I suggest people wax on top of it.

I'm just stating the fact that it is an option if people want to do it. :thumb:


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## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

CraigQQ said:


> won't lime prime shorten the life of c1? its got abrasives in it... so its almost like polishing c1 surely?


I did think that but he is talking about lime prime light and I haven't looked in to the properties of this. Anything abrasive will just remove the C1.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

as i said earlier, it was excellent work on this db9 detail. 

and the post you quoted was actually meant at you mate, it was an answer to someone who asked if waxing ontop of c1 would make it better, hindsight i should have quoted him, so it didnt look like i was aiming it at you.. 

and my above post was not made to make you look foolish or anything of that sort, 

this post helped me decide i wanted c1 on my car for swirl resistance, so thanks for that.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

Incredible Detail said:


> I did think that but he is talking about lime prime light and I haven't looked in to the properties of this. Anything abrasive will just remove the C1.


my mistake, i thought LPL still had a small amount of abrasives in it.. i stand corrected.


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## slrestoration (Nov 11, 2009)

Thanks for the update :thumb: Certainly backs up the investment of C1 for its swirl resistance


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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

Thanks for taking the time to post up the update...very interesting.

p.s for all those posting about waxing over the top I think are missing the point of C1 entirely:thumb:


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## Chris11LE (Feb 22, 2011)

I know I may be resurrecting a "dead thread", but I just wanted to make a few comments.

1. EXCELLENT job.

2. You are illustrating EXACTLY what Im seeing with my 2011 Malbec Black G37. I can correct a panel as best I can get it (Im no pro, so what you call 99% I call 110%  ). I can check it in the sun and its fine. BUT, once I try to get off any leftover product (P1 mostly) OR I "rub it the wrong way", BAM....instant marring.

Interesting thing is that I think we were using the same microfibers (from Gtechniq?). I also noticed that the edge of the towels were marring the paint, very similar to the marks you saw......its kind of like a hologram mark but it follows the trail of where you wipe/buff, and only evident in really direct sunlight.

Last night I think I may have made some progress....I hit a small section with a very very soft 4" finish pad and some Meguiars Ultimate Compound (yes, maybe too harsh, Im going to try SwirlX or M205 today instead). That left some haze, but I gambled that the haze was actually leftover product and not a result of the compound, since I was using such a soft pad I didnt think it had very much bite. Buffed in some Klasse AIO onto the section, then wiped it down. Sure enough, no marring, paint looks and feels clean...not a smooth sealant clean, but a squeaky clean.

Do you have any other tips on how to finish the car? I plan on doing C1 (especially after reading your adventure), but I almost want to do one panel at a time.....polish, clean, C1. Only thing I worry about is that Ill mar the already done panel while working on the adjacent panel.

Thanks in advance, and thanks for the story. Im not happy to see it, but its nice to know someone else out there is seeing a similar issue.


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

only just seen the update  good stuff


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## jordan6n (Aug 4, 2010)

i can vouch how good C1 is

rob came out to do the roof on my polo, it constantly sits in the workshop covered in dust and people come in and walk up thinking its a glass roof and rub it rubbing the thick dust into it, think rob will agree it looked but under the lights and came to the point i hated the roof, he spent a good few hours on the roof alone then coated it with C1 the day before i left for ultimate dubs, 600miles later and several people rubbing the roof i checked it under the lights and it was still the way he left it 2 days before

its superb stuff


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## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

Chris11LE - I tried a selection different microfibres in this test but never included this in the review as I though it was big enough and didn't want it to get boring.










I don't have time to respond to your questions just now but I will be able to offer advice on the best way to apply and how not to mark the paint.

Got loads of exciting write ups with some really nice cars to do as well so when I get a chance to sit down and do one of these I'll type out some info on how best to deal with getting c1 on super soft paint with leaving the paintwork perfect.

Slight update on the car. Went in to Aston and they touched it in a few places with greasy dirty hand and also possible after the test drive so you can guess what happend there. Overall it's fine though just a couple of minor marks that are very difficult to spot - but there is no need for me to correct these and I'll leave it as is until it's yearly or 2 years enhancement detail - depending on how well it keep. I'm now the only one that touches the car though.

I have spoke to 2 main sales guys at the Aston dealership and they understand how easily the paint marks (even before I told them) but obviously the mechanic didn't take enough care when working on the car. The were told buy Aston though that it's the paint regulations at fault - but I let them know that that is rubbish and I've worked on plenty of new cars that don't mark if you look at the paintwork wrong.

Yeah there is a few that are fairly soft but that's in the minority - and none as soft (maybe marks easily rather than soft is the right word here) as this. My car marks easily because it's solid red (solid colours show up marks a lot more) and the finish on the panels that have been resprayed are way too soft.


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## Dionysus (May 18, 2010)

CraigQQ said:


> my mistake, i thought LPL still had a small amount of abrasives in it.. i stand corrected.


Dodo Juice specifically state (on the bottle label and on their website) that Lime Prime Lite does not contain abrasives. I have also checked with DJ what their thoughts are regarding the cleaners in LPL and their potential effect on C1:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=199688

Although DJ (or Gtechniq) may not have tested C1 with LPL, I would, in the absence of any tests, like to think that DJ know their product well enough to provide an informed opinion.

On the two panels that I have tested LPL & BOS over C1, there is little visible difference in performance/aesthetics, although admittedly it has only been about 6 weeks, so unlikey to be long enough to form any conclusive views.


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## Dionysus (May 18, 2010)

Incredible Detail said:


> So there you have it. This car has the probably the softest/most easily marked paintwork possible and was, as you can see from the first part of this review, impossible to wash inflicting the finest wash marring marks.
> 
> It's now wearing Gtechniq C1 and that problem has been solved. It can now be washed without marking it at all.


Interesting conclusion you have come to; I would find it helpful (in the context of this thread) if you could answer some questions around how the car is used (is it a daily driver, 'garage queen', only used on dry days, etc), and how it is maintained, i.e. what wash routine does the owner follow (frequency, products and methods used, etc) or is it professionally maintained? - Sorry to OP regarding maintainance, just read your post above stating you are now the only one that touches the car. Just to confirm, after you C1'd the car, it was not washed until you did so prior to it going to Aston?

Has C2 been used to maintain the C1?

May I also inquire as to what snow foam product you used to pre-wash the C1'd paintwork?


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## Dionysus (May 18, 2010)

Chris_VRS said:


> p.s for all those posting about waxing over the top I think are missing the point of C1 entirely:thumb:


I beg to differ; IMO there are two reasons for waxing a C1'd car: -

1. Adding protection. Gtechiniq have clearly stated in the past that C1 should be maintained with mild shampoo and C2 (they even used to supply a bottle of C2 QD with every car they C1'd). C2 not only extends the life of C1, but also restores beading once this has naturally degraded. Wax will also provide these maintenance benefits, although I will concede, as wax is not optically clear, it will vary the aesthetics in comparision to maintaining C1 with C2.

2. Providing filling properties; C1 does not claim to make a car swirl-proof, just increase it's swirl resistance in comparision to other products. I believe this effect will be increased on hard, normal and soft paintworks (in that order), however, on 'super-soft' paintworks (which seem to becoming more common) it may still be possible to pick up some minor wash marring on a C1'd car (this is an informed opinion). Waxes will provide limited filling in such cases. Having said that Gtechniq now state on their website that "C2 can also be layered to hide minor surface imperfections (eg marring on soft lacquers).", although I'm yet to test that...

Please note that I am not attempting to either discredit the conclusions of the OP with regards to the swirl resistance C1 offers or indeed the qualities of C1 itself; other posts from Pros have also proven the swirl resistance of C1, albeit on soft paintwork as opposed to 'super-soft':

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=201934

My comments are limited to the context of maintaining 'super-soft' paintwork. It is an interesting topic which is likely to increasing affect owners and Pros alike...


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## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

Chris11LE said:


> I know I may be resurrecting a "dead thread", but I just wanted to make a few comments.
> 
> 1. EXCELLENT job.
> 
> ...


Sorry for the delay in responding to this.

As every paint reacts differently I just experiment with what is best with that paint type.

Some polishes buff off easier than others on some paint typed so I try them all and go with what is best. P1 is good because you then don't need to IPA the paintwork - this in itself can cause the microfibre to drag and mark the paint.

This was the hardest car I've had to do and it gave me a very sore head and took an age to buff off every section and tripple check it - sun gun in one had and MF in the other. The first time when I just waxed it I had exactly the same problem - if not worse - and it was very gutting to see how bad the car was only after a couple of careful washes. Hence this experiment.

I'm now confident with the techniques I've learned and with C1 that I and customers can keep any car swirl free now.


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## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

Pointelss discussion re waxing over C1. Each to their own. It's just an option.

If you look after the car properly with C1 then you shouldn't need to use something to fill in the any marks it may have picked up. Infact your more likely to mark the paint rubbing in and buffing off the filling agent. Nothing will fill enough to make it worth while.


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## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

Dionysus said:


> Interesting conclusion you have come to; I would find it helpful (in the context of this thread) if you could answer some questions around how the car is used (is it a daily driver, 'garage queen', only used on dry days, etc), and how it is maintained, i.e. what wash routine does the owner follow (frequency, products and methods used, etc) or is it professionally maintained? - Sorry to OP regarding maintainance, just read your post above stating you are now the only one that touches the car. Just to confirm, after you C1'd the car, it was not washed until you did so prior to it going to Aston?
> 
> Has C2 been used to maintain the C1?
> 
> May I also inquire as to what snow foam product you used to pre-wash the C1'd paintwork?


I'm the only person that touches the car. I'm not sure how often the car is used as present. I'm due to re visit this customer in the next couple of weeks and will snap some more pictures to update this thread if I get a chance.

I'm confident that the owner could wash it and not mark it if he follows the same procedue as me. However, at presents, he doesn't need to.

The C1 is only just on so nothing has been used to maintain it. Applying C2 and wiping overr the car with a microfibre will increase the chances of marking the paintwork so I don't intend on doing this. C1 makes it more managable and able to keep swirl free but it still marks easily if care is not taken.

The car was snowfoamed with Megiuar's Hyper Wash.


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## MAUI (Feb 1, 2008)

Chris11LE said:


> Buffed in some Klasse AIO onto the section, then wiped it down. Sure enough, no marring, paint looks and feels clean...not a smooth sealant clean, but a squeaky clean.
> 
> Wouldn't Klasse AIO leave something behind? Meaning would you apply C1 over Klasse?


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## Dionysus (May 18, 2010)

Incredible Detail said:


> The car was snowfoamed with Megiuar's Hyper Wash.


Thanks for taking the time to reply; very much appreciated.

I was considering purchasing some Hyper Wash as an LSP friendly snow foam based on endorsement from Polished Bliss, but was debating whether or not a hot water pressure washer would be a better purchase (albeit much more costly). Another question if I may; do you use mains temperature water or heated water through PW?

Based on your review/comments for maintaining C1'd super-soft paintwork, I'll give the Hyper Wash a go.

Looking forwards to any updates you do in the future and keep up the good work on a very informative thread. :thumb:


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

top work mate... looks stunning!


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## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

***UPDATE - THURSDAY 21ST APRIL 2011***

OK I thought I'd update this again just to let you guys see how it's going. As you can see the car wasn't too dirty and I'm not sure if it every will get that way to be honest - as I suspect people would be interest in seing how I wash it and keep it swirl free if it's cacked in mud. I'll maybe ask the owner if he can drive it through a field or something as obviously if I keep doing updates with a car that's not really dirty then it will get a bit pointless / boring.

On arrivial: My car is in the reflections here as the van was getting MOT'd / service and a few bits sorted for the new owner.























































Here's a few before picture in direct sunlight





































Firsty I done the interior, then wheels so that I could wash the car and put it in the garage to dry - to prevent the risk of dust blowing on to it and getting trapped between the microfibre and the car when i was sorting out the drips after blow drying.

This whole was was done in baking hot direct sunlight which meant a few changes to the wash procedure to prevent the water from drying on the car and creating water spots.

Firstly the car was snowfoamed with Meguiars hyper wash. Then rinsed every inch. Then snow foamed again and rinsed again. I didn't have to do this twice and hadn't before but just done it to be extra sure there was no particles left on the paintwork that could have got trapped between the wash mitt and the car.

The car was then snowfoamed like this :










The snow foam has less chance of drying out like just water on the car so that was quite helpful here. I then washed the roof, windows, bonnet, boot, tops of doors, wings and quarter panels (obvioulsy with the 2 bucket method and rinsing between panels). This took most of the foam off the car so I then snow foamed again to prevent drying out and wash the lower half of the car.

I didn't take any pictures of the wash process as you have all seen it before and I was rushing in the sunlight.

Wash buckets and mitt after wash:



















The car was then blown dry and taken inside where I patted dry a couple of beads of water on the paintwork and a few drips and inspected the car for wash marring and the like. Sun gun pictures:























































Still totally perfect. Now I shall just clear up that not all Aston Martins have paintwork that marks this easily. I've done quite a few black DB9s (and have some booked in) and none have been as bad as this. This is the worst I've every came across and I'd be as already mentioned, and shown in this post, I think it would be totally impossible to wash it without marking it considering a brand new clean soft wash mitt marked it by just touching the surface. The C1 coating does prevent the paintwork from marking on this car but I still need to ensure I was it perfectly as it will still mark fairly easily.

Hopefully the details of how I washed the car may also help people that are stuggling to keep swirls at bay - even on paints that aren't that soft.

Total time to wash and dry bodwork (inclduing windows, shuts etc but not wheels and arches) was around 45 minutes. 12 of which was rinsing the car first - probably 8 minutes for the first foam as the second one was quicker as it was just an extra precaution. I could probably have done it quicker but wasn't trying to rush / set any records.

So there isn't much point in me updating this after ever wash it C1 has obvioulsy worked and done it's job. I'll probably update it again at some point in the future.


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## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

Dionysus said:


> Thanks for taking the time to reply; very much appreciated.
> 
> I was considering purchasing some Hyper Wash as an LSP friendly snow foam based on endorsement from Polished Bliss, but was debating whether or not a hot water pressure washer would be a better purchase (albeit much more costly). Another question if I may; do you use mains temperature water or heated water through PW?
> 
> ...


I use cold water. I also use Hyper Wash to foam the car because it's also a shampoo and has great lubrication meaning I can use the foam on the car to help wash it.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2011)

top stuff bud


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Apologies for the bump. Me and Craig had already decided on C1 for my car, this just reinforced my choice even more. 

Fantastic honest write up. Actually one of the best i've read on DW. 

Thanks for posting.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

evening kev.. yes

will need to get together soon and get the car ready for winter :thumb:


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## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

gally said:


> Apologies for the bump. Me and Craig had already decided on C1 for my car, this just reinforced my choice even more.
> 
> Fantastic honest write up. Actually one of the best i've read on DW.
> 
> Thanks for posting.





CraigQQ said:


> evening kev.. yes
> 
> will need to get together soon and get the car ready for winter :thumb:


Where's my invite?! I'm a champion lower door buffer! :buffer:

:lol:


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

You're more than welcome to come along!

You can both show me the way of C1!


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## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

gally said:


> You're more than welcome to come along!
> 
> You can both show me the way of C1!


We could invite Spoony but then he'll just talk about CQuartz blah blah blah...

:lol:


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

And feeding us samples! Some boy!

Looking forward to getting it on the car now. 

It was corrected not long ago so it only needs a quick polish then we can crack on.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

amiller said:


> Where's my invite?! I'm a champion lower door buffer! :buffer:
> 
> :lol:


Thats because you can do the lower doors standing up :lol:

the FRP is quite low.. even you might be able to reach the roof andy 



gally said:


> You're more than welcome to come along!
> 
> You can both show me the way of C1!


shhhh dont say that :lol:



amiller said:


> We could invite Spoony but then he'll just talk about CQuartz blah blah blah...
> 
> :lol:


lol ive got 40ml of cquartz! 
and cant beat free samples


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Lols! Didn't you say the Frp had a stance like a 4x4!!!


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

lol thats the wide a55..

its squat.. just has the sport 4wd look :lol:

better stop :spam:ing incredible details thread..
sorry mate.


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## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

gally said:


> Apologies for the bump. Me and Craig had already decided on C1 for my car, this just reinforced my choice even more.
> 
> Fantastic honest write up. Actually one of the best i've read on DW.
> 
> Thanks for posting.


Good to hear it's helped you make your decision and that people are still appreciating it.

I had a copy of this on my website and it was getting loads of hits from all over the word. A lot of them were from foreign forums so I coudn't understand what they were saying!

I'll try and update this thread over the winter months when I've got more time to spare and can also give my car a bit of tlc.


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## GlasgowDave (May 23, 2009)

You're holding out on us, man. Where is the update? =)

Dave


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## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

I'll dig out some pictures I took before the car was sold.


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