# tried Black Hole today - thought it was waste of time



## F17BAD (Dec 12, 2010)

As per a previous post i made, i have today tried black Hole onn a friends car which had some very minor swirl marks, so i thought this was an ideal car to try this product on..

Results were no different to before, im thinking this product is a bit crap, i applied with Megs aplicator pad ? is this wrong ?


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## Beemer 330 (Oct 8, 2010)

I dont think you can actually remove swirls and scratches without a machine polish, all you can do is fill them and the best for that is SRP.

I may get corrected which is coool but that is my understanding.


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## nath69uk (Dec 29, 2008)

via DA it is meant to be very good.


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## Maggi200 (Aug 21, 2009)

It has to be worked properly to achieve anything like the 50/50's you've probably seen. By machine this stuff comes alive, i never noticed any filling by hand. For that I would say get SRP or for correction by hand p1


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## F17BAD (Dec 12, 2010)

the only machine i use, is a Dodo juice spin doctor, can it be used with this bad boy ? or are we talikg DA only ?


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## Jacktdi (Oct 21, 2010)

Use it with a DA and it will soon change your mind.


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## F17BAD (Dec 12, 2010)

i only have rotary im affraid


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

Ive had good results from BH via DA. Not as good as some pictures ive seen on here but still very good results. By hand your virtually wasting your time :thumb:


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## F17BAD (Dec 12, 2010)

Dont own a DA so i guess BH is a no show for me LOL


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

F17BAD said:


> Dont own a DA so i guess BH is a no show for me LOL


BH is a nice product, but I didn't find it the miracle product that is often reported here, and favour AG UDS out of the two :thumb:


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

F17BAD said:


> Dont own a DA so i guess BH is a no show for me LOL


Not sure if you can use it via a rotary or not to be honest, you might be able to?

The first time I used it by hand I thought it was useless as well it was only a few inspirational photos on here that got me using it again :thumb:


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## JJ_ (Oct 26, 2005)

I have the same results, tried it with PC and rotary. Doesn't do anything Zymol HD etc doesnt do, bit dissapointed with it as a product. I hope to be proven wrong still though!!


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

JJ_ said:


> I have the same results, tried it with PC and rotary. Doesn't do anything Zymol HD etc doesnt do, bit dissapointed with it as a product. I hope to be proven wrong still though!!


There are a few decent pics knocking around of BH 50:50 I mean that are impressive but ive not been able to anything like that. Its still a good product by DA infact i did my car with it the other day and got good results :thumb:


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## Maggi200 (Aug 21, 2009)

I've not tried it but I would imagine on a finishing/glazing pad at anything under 900rpm should be fine. I'll try it on my test panel when I get a chance


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## andy60m (Oct 21, 2009)

I have had really rather good results from it by rotary. Trick is to work it for a while whith very little product otherwise the pas gets clogged. Light swirling only returned when wax started to drop off 4 months later. So gets a big thumbs up from me.


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## JJ_ (Oct 26, 2005)

gr33n said:


> There are a few decent pics knocking around of BH 50:50 I mean that are impressive but ive not been able to anything like that. Its still a good product by DA infact i did my car with it the other day and got good results :thumb:


I saw a few of them but I just can't get the results. I am moving to a heated garage soon so maybe that'll help. I am keen to get it working for me as I have a non metallic black car so fillers are my friends.


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## 888-Dave (Jul 30, 2010)

I too haven't exactly been blown away by using it, even with a DA

As a quick fix for mildly swirly paint it's ok but there will never be a substitute for actual enhancement/correction work with actual polishes.

Personally I think you actually get better results from proper finishing techniques, takes longer yes, but it's worth it :thumb:


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

It made a nice base for my LSP though :thumb: Glass like finish


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

I've only ever used blackhole by hand and if worked for a while it works very well. If you're just wiping on and off, or not working it long enough it's just not going to work.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

There is a lot of hype over this product here (just like AG SRP), but I've found if you actually polish your paint, it does very little. It still has it's place, and it is a good product for a good price!


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## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

i`ve used BH quite a few times . not for filling though but more for enhancment and also is great for wax to bond to it .


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

MMMMHHHHH To buy or not to buy then?


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Personally I don't think anything can fill swirl marks or scratches. They need machining out.


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

kempe said:


> MMMMHHHHH To buy or not to buy then?


In my opinion, your not going to get that 90-100% corrected look from it. Ive never been able to replicate the results ive seen on here but that might be me using it wrong.

Having said that, yes I still use it, and yes Id buy it again/recommend it. Using BH on my car last weekend took about half the time that properly polishing it did, so long as its sealed/waxed I cant see it washing off. I just need to keep my sealant topped up :lol:


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## RCZ (Aug 13, 2010)

My dad's car was in a bad state and I offered to help him sort it. Don't have access to a machine. We started with T-Cut Metallic which didn't seem to do much.

Halfords recommended AG Paint Renovator so we used that. After that we used SRP and AG HD Wax (which I already had).

The turn-around was fantastic. My dad and his wife didn't even realsie there were gold flecks in the paintwork till after we finished.

And honest...I'm not sponsored by Autoglym 

I'm sure it wasn't as good a job as a proper machine jobby, and I know SRP was doing some 'filling' which may wear off...but when I saw the car at Christmas, it was still looking good and beading water.


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## grant_evans (Mar 2, 2008)

Mirror Finish said:


> Personally I don't think anything can fill swirl marks or scratches. They need machining out.


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## F17BAD (Dec 12, 2010)

SRP is oldskool, but good 

I remember the days a coat of SRP was all that was done hahahaha


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## Hunter (Oct 23, 2010)

F17BAD said:


> SRP is oldskool, but good
> 
> I remember the days a coat of SRP was all that was done hahahaha


:thumb: Same here SRP was my one step complete detail on my car back in the early days 

As for Black Hole I found it extremely hard to work via Rotary after i had applied Sonus SFX-2 by a Rotary Polisher. It seemed to 'smear' when i tried to work it into the paint. I was probably doing it all wrong but I applied it with a glaze hexi pad at low rpm. After the smearing effect i stripped it off and applied by hand taking ages. I was impressed with the results. I have pictures on a thread of applying Poorboy's Blackhole followed by Natty's Blue Paste wax: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=190087

I am now in the middle of a quick detail after the bad weather. So far I have washed, de-tarred, clayed and just finished drying the car.

I plan to use srp followed by backhole then AG Sealant and finally topped off with AG HD Wax or else Poorboy's natty's Blue Paste Wax all by hand. However think i might stick to the AG HD Wax as not sure if natty's Wax will be compatible. Sorry to hijack the thread but does this seem ok?


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## amzchhabra (May 6, 2010)

Mirror Finish said:


> Personally I don't think anything can fill swirl marks or scratches. They need machining out.


I think you may be wrong...





































Megs G220 with a Sonus SFX-2 Pad on a BMW 330d Cab. Black Hole was the only product used, and the swirls are gone! Masked, but definitely gone!


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## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

^^ they look gone to me! 

Dare to do an ipa wipedown after to show 'filling'?


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## amzchhabra (May 6, 2010)

I have done an ipa wipedown in the past, it does remove the filling properties of black hole. 

I plan on giving my tank a once over this weekend so will give it a go on there. Results may not be as good thou, it's carneol red which is like metallic burgundy.


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## Eric the Red (Sep 14, 2010)

Here is before and after using BH


















Applied by hand and topped with C2


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## Deeper Detail (Oct 31, 2010)

Have a play with the spin doc on slowest speed with a finishing pad and BH :thumb:


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## westerman (Oct 12, 2008)

I love BH but would'nt use it unless the base was good. If it's used to correct paint the results may well be disappointing but apply BH to a car after clay and polish and it's bling!:thumb:


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

888-Dave said:


> I too haven't exactly been blown away by using it, even with a DA
> 
> As a quick fix for mildly swirly paint it's ok but there will never be a substitute for actual enhancement/correction work with actual polishes.
> 
> Personally I think you actually get better results from proper finishing techniques, takes longer yes, but it's worth it :thumb:


You do, of course, but for some people with older cars and thinner/softer paint, endless correction isn't a realistic long term option, or else risk ending up with the car in the bodyshop. There is a time and a place for masking minor swirling for some people and correction isn't the be all and end all. I'm not saying that's the point you were making, I'm just stating that not everyone has newer cars with sufficient microns in their clearcoated finishes to accommodate this approach. Those with single stage paint that might be 15, 20, 25 years old simply can't afford to keep taking a thickness off ad infinitum and products like BH are valuable in these cases.



millns84 said:


> I've only ever used blackhole by hand and if worked for a while it works very well. If you're just wiping on and off, or not working it long enough it's just not going to work.


Basically what I was going to say :thumb:



Mirror Finish said:


> Personally I don't think anything can fill swirl marks or scratches. They need machining out.


As per my reply to the first quote.


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

Eric the Red said:


> Here is before and after using BH
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To me, this is two shots at different angels in different lights, I can't see the amount of correction ("correction") achieved, do you have any other shots?



Viper said:


> You do, of course, but for some people with older cars and thinner/softer paint, endless correction isn't a realistic long term option, or else risk ending up with the car in the bodyshop. There is a time and a place for masking minor swirling for some people and correction isn't the be all and end all. I'm not saying that's the point you were making, I'm just stating that not everyone has newer cars with sufficient microns in their clearcoated finishes to accommodate this approach. Those with single stage paint that might be 15, 20, 25 years old simply can't afford to keep taking a thickness off ad infinitum and products like BH are valuable in these cases.


Spot on.

I bought some blackhole yesterday and plan on attcking my dads A4 on Monday, I have a SIM180 and the full range of 3M pads, which should I use with blackhole, I'm guessing blue??


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## F17BAD (Dec 12, 2010)

yeah viper has a valid point, my car is touching 20 years old now, original paint, single stage no clearcoat.. Iv got it looking mint with the spin doctor, but dont wanna have to keep hitting it with that every time a mark apears, id rahter cap nit off to as little as possible.


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

F17BAD said:


> yeah viper has a valid point, my car is touching 20 years old now, original paint, single stage no clearcoat.. Iv got it looking mint with the spin doctor, but dont wanna have to keep hitting it with that every time a mark apears, id rahter cap nit off to as little as possible.


Pretty much identical to me then - mine will be 22 years old in a few months with single stage black paint (all original, so won't the thickest by now). Mine's been corrected a couple of years ago, but it's that damn easy to accidentally put a mark in it, I've kinda stopped fretting about it now and would rather preserve the original finish than risk having to get some parts repainted. There are only literally a handful of my car left now, and even fewer in black with factory paint (might even be the _only_ one?), and I'm proud of that fact. The OCD in me would love to keep machining out every little RDS and light swirl, but it's just not worth it - I'd rather hide them if they're only very minor and just break the machine out if it's absolutely necessary :thumb:


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Mirror Finish said:


> Personally I don't think anything can fill swirl marks or scratches. They need machining out.


Wasn't it you that posted these shots?


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

That ^^ is fantastic!! What an improvement :thumb:


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

this has turned interesting


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Done by DA.

I'll find the thread but it looks like it's Mirror Finish's customer.


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Massive apologies to Mirror Finish, it was P&P....

Look at the bonnet shots aswell! Crazy!

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=179093&highlight=nissan+blackhole


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

> this was applyed buy rotary using a finishing pad working at around 1500rpm then slowed to around 1200 until fully worked
> 
> i very rarly use a DA so i am not to sure on speeds but i think you will need to up the speed a little, when i was correction some side skirts recently i was working around speed 5,
> 
> it also depends on what car you are working on, the black hole had such a good effect on this car because of the really soft paint


Not sure why I thought it was a DA, just shows it can be worked easily by Rotary although don't be fooled the shots are really good due to the soft paint on the car.

Other cars might not benefit as much.

If there were any pictures that could sell Blackhole it's them!


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## F17BAD (Dec 12, 2010)

Viper said:


> Pretty much identical to me then - mine will be 22 years old in a few months with single stage black paint (all original, so won't the thickest by now). Mine's been corrected a couple of years ago, but it's that damn easy to accidentally put a mark in it, I've kinda stopped fretting about it now and would rather preserve the original finish than risk having to get some parts repainted. There are only literally a handful of my car left now, and even fewer in black with factory paint (might even be the _only_ one?), and I'm proud of that fact. The OCD in me would love to keep machining out every little RDS and light swirl, but it's just not worth it - I'd rather hide them if they're only very minor and just break the machine out if it's absolutely necessary :thumb:


Mate, i am seriously totally in your frame of mind and know exactly what you mean..

My bonnet is for some reason the worst part for marking on mine, even a Dodo juice fantastic fur can mark it if not carefull i know the paint well and treat it with absolute care. would really love BH to work. Im thinking of getting a DA just to use it for BH ?? ?


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## F17BAD (Dec 12, 2010)

gally said:


> Not sure why I thought it was a DA, just shows it can be worked easily by Rotary although don't be fooled the shots are really good due to the soft paint on the car.
> 
> Other cars might not benefit as much.
> 
> If there were any pictures that could sell Blackhole it's them!


you used rotary ? Wow, how many passes etc ? if you dont mind me asking ?


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

> this was applyed buy rotary using a finishing pad working at around 1500rpm then slowed to around 1200 until fully worked
> 
> i very rarly use a DA so i am not to sure on speeds but i think you will need to up the speed a little, when i was correction some side skirts recently i was working around speed 5,
> 
> it also depends on what car you are working on, the black hole had such a good effect on this car because of the really soft paint


If your paint is as easy marred as you say try this combo. 

Really hope it works for you, low speed imo is the key on a rotary when using glazes. But as said above on soft paintwork you can speed it up a little to good effect, just make sure your working it into the paint with a few passes.


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## F17BAD (Dec 12, 2010)

Many thanks, i shall try this mate


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Please let us know how you get on, i'm a lot of the Forum used or have used BH so it's always nice to hear how people get on with it.


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## F17BAD (Dec 12, 2010)

i will do mate,once again many thanks for the tip


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

Blackhole is ideal if you don't want to be correcting often. Dark cars do pick up swirls and marks, however carfull you are. Using BH before waxing does help hide a lot of the small swirls.I really rated it when i used it on my dark blue car, it looked finished even before the wax went on.


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