# Breaking the speed limit



## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

I really don't understand so many people's insistence on breaking the speed limit. I don't mean by a few MPH as it's easy to creep over the limit but I mean those people that will overtake you if you're doing 30mph in a 30 zone or people that get done for speeding well over the speed limit. 

I recently signed up with the IAM with the plan to complete my advanced driving so I make a very contious effort to stick to the limit but the reaction to me sticking to the limit is unbelievable. Now bear in mind I'm not on the brakes all the time, I use the correct gear and stick to the limit. 

So recently this is what I've experienced - 

Female Pug 207 on my back bumper all through a 30mph zone. I then get to a large hill, still in a 30 zone and a well known spot for Police speed checks. I apply my brakes to stay at 30mph and get a load of headlight flashing from the dim bint behind me. 

Male BMW driver comes up behind me, I'm guessing at around 50-55mph in a 30mph and again just sits on my rear bumper. 

And to cap it off the Facebook status I've just read, 'Just got done for speeding... They clearly got no more looters to catch.' 

What boiled my p!ss was the ignorant comments that followed, this person stated she was doing 50mph in a 30 and gets the comments 'Poor you'. 

You f*cking what???? Poor you? I'd feel more sorry for the accident they cause for driving way to fast or the person they run over who miss judges their speed and steps out by accident. 

What is it with people's insistence on driving too fast? I'm not saying everyone has to drive slowly but it never fails to surprise me that people totally disregard the speed limit a majority of the time.


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

While training as a driving instructor I did hours and hours practice driving "Correctly" and had idiots driving up my chuff on almost every journey. Plus if you read through this forum there are a fair few people who've had similar experiences and are sick to death of other peoples aggressive driving which is what it is. If you really want to you could drive way above the speed limit and never bother anyone. But that's not what they're about, it's about intimidating other road users. 

I recommend anything that will help, other than to say you're not on your own in thinking these people are idiots.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Drive at 70 on a motorway and EVERYONE overtakes you!

Good on you with the IAM stuff. I've been a member for 13 years now!


I have two tactics for tailgaters:

1) I left foot brake just enough to switch the brake lights on (needs EXTREME caution first time) but maintain the same speed.
2) I slow right down until they back off.

Luckily the Defender is like a truck - if anyone hits it, they total their car. 
The BM is pretty nippy - my last resort is to briefly floor it.


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## [email protected] (Apr 28, 2011)

There is no need for it speed limited are there to save lifes plan and simple!


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

Hate them too mate!! I'm all for abit of spirited driving, but at the right time in the right place.

What gets me is when I'm on a 40mph dual carraige way, and it's normally a dumb woman in a family car that sits on your rear bumper with a frown on because I'm doing the speed limit. There's another lane there for overtaking!!

Or when you in a 30mph zone with busy but flowing traffic, and some knob sits on my rear bumper, even if I was pressurised to go faster I can't anway now back off!

What I do love though is when I've got somebody on my bumper and I'm doing the speed limit, when we get to an island, roundabout or bend, I don't brake or slowdown (obviously if it's okay to ) and they are miles behind afterwards.


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## Abarth225bhp (Aug 12, 2011)

Ben_ZS said:


> Hate them too mate!! I'm all for abit of spirited driving, but at the right time in the right place.QUOTE]
> 
> Was it not you that was pulled by police last night for doing 60mph in a 30 zone?


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## [email protected] (Apr 28, 2011)

My mrs slows down if people get up her as*


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

Abarth225bhp said:


> Ben_ZS said:
> 
> 
> > Hate them too mate!! I'm all for abit of spirited driving, but at the right time in the right place.QUOTE]
> ...


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

335dAND110XS said:


> 1) I left foot brake just enough to switch the brake lights on (needs EXTREME caution first time) but maintain the same speed.


lol - yeah best not practiced on the open road your left foot is used to working the clutch........even your 'light' touch could be an emergency stop!

If they are real close a tap of the rear fog light has the same effect....and possibly safer...


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## jay_bmw (Jan 28, 2010)

Bero said:


> lol - yeah best not practiced on the open road your left foot is used to working the clutch........even your 'light' touch could be an emergency stop!
> 
> If they are real close a tap of the rear fog light has the same effect....and possibly safer...


Well if they go in the back of you it'd be their fault any way for not leaving a safe stopping distance


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Bero said:


> lol - yeah best not practiced on the open road your left foot is used to working the clutch........even your 'light' touch could be an emergency stop!
> 
> If they are real close a tap of the rear fog light has the same effect....and possibly safer...


The BM has no clutch 
I practised a fair bit before doing this in manual cars - just like left foot braking. Practise first on a clear/private road, get the hang of it, use it.


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

335dAND110XS said:


> 1) I left foot brake just enough to switch the brake lights on (needs EXTREME caution first time) but maintain the same speed.
> 2) I slow right down until they back off.


It's what I do, and it's also what one of my IAM instructors said. Not enough to actually slow the car, but just to show the brake lights.

However, as you say, you've got to be extremely (sp) careful. I did it twice recently, once on the A1 and the passenger, as they went past, literally was hanging out the window about to chuck a bottle of water at me. HaHa me thought, who's getting stressed. Someone after, chap in a 4x4 went ape at me and then blocked a 2 lane carriageway when he got in front.

Dropping the speed and increasing the gap in front is a good one too, although it does take a while for numpty behind to finally get the message and back off.


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## MrBoJangles (Feb 18, 2011)

I hit a 30 limit and engage cruise control. I will not go even 1mph over. I will speed on motorways to be honest, maybe 80-85, but the A6 makes it feel very safe to do so and I am advance trained (by Police instructor) so always read ahead. I have even spoken to a copper who said if he saw my car doing 85 on a clear stretch he wouldn't book me. 30,40,50 limits though are simply not safe to ignore IMO. I shudder at the thought of hitting a child in a residential area and speed being the contributing factor. 30mph in the Audi feels very very very slow so plenty time to react and stop.


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## jay_bmw (Jan 28, 2010)

Thats exactly my attitude, 

No kids running about on the m-way, 

glad i'm not alone


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

MrBoJangles said:


> I hit a 30 limit and engage cruise control. I will not go even 1mph over. I will speed on motorways to be honest, maybe 80-85, but the A6 makes it feel very safe to do so and I am advance trained (by Police instructor) so always read ahead. I have even spoken to a copper who said if he saw my car doing 85 on a clear stretch he wouldn't book me. 30,40,50 limits though are simply not safe to ignore IMO. I shudder at the thought of hitting a child in a residential area and speed being the contributing factor. 30mph in the Audi feels very very very slow so plenty time to react and stop.


You engage cruise control in a 30? Yeah... great.


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## MrBoJangles (Feb 18, 2011)

RisingPower said:


> You engage cruise control in a 30? Yeah... great.


Yes, because with the Audi being multitronic it's virtually impossible to stick to 30 yourself because it feels like you could open the door and run past your own car. Unless you are glued to the speedo you tend to creep up and up. Putting the cruise on prevents that and makes sure I focus on the road ahead and not my speedo. No idea why you seem to have a problem with that? Do you speed in a 30 and don't like it when people don't?


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

MrBoJangles said:


> Yes, because with the Audi being multitronic it's virtually impossible to stick to 30 yourself because it feels like you could open the door and run past your own car. Unless you are glued to the speedo you tend to creep up and up. Putting the cruise on prevents that and makes sure I focus on the road ahead and not my speedo. No idea why you seem to have a problem with that? Do you speed in a 30 and don't like it when people don't?


It's virtually impossible?

I don't try to meet the speed limit in a 30, I drive to the road conditions and situation. If it isn't safe to do 30, I won't be doing 30.


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## MrBoJangles (Feb 18, 2011)

RisingPower said:


> It's virtually impossible?
> 
> I don't try to meet the speed limit in a 30, I drive to the road conditions and situation. If it isn't safe to do 30, I won't be doing 30.


Oh, is your point that I shouldn't be SUSTAINNG 30? Well obviously I will slow down where needed. The cruise is a cap, that's all. You can still slow down when you're using cruise you know.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

MrBoJangles said:


> Oh, is your point that I shouldn't be SUSTAINNG 30? Well obviously I will slow down where needed. The cruise is a cap, that's all. You can still slow down when you're using cruise you know.


My point is, you don't need cruise control in a 30 and most of the time you should be able to tell how fast you're going.

I won't keep to the dot on 30 constantly.

Your definition of where needed may differ from mine.


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## MrBoJangles (Feb 18, 2011)

Trust me, in my car, you can't. We'll agree to differ on this one fella. I'm off to the shops!


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

MrBoJangles said:


> I hit a 30 limit and engage cruise control. I will not go even 1mph over. I will speed on motorways to be honest, maybe 80-85, but the A6 makes it feel very safe to do so and I am advance trained (by Police instructor) so always read ahead. I have even spoken to a copper who said if he saw my car doing 85 on a clear stretch he wouldn't book me. 30,40,50 limits though are simply not safe to ignore IMO. I shudder at the thought of hitting a child in a residential area and speed being the contributing factor. 30mph in the Audi feels very very very slow so plenty time to react and stop.


So...you can speed where you deem it appropriate and to your self imposed limits? How does that work?

There's a section 50mph dual carriageway by my house - should I stick steadfast to 50mph? It was 70mph a couple weeks ago.....so it was clear you could have deemed it safe to do at least 70, maybe 80-85mph but now it should be no more than 50.0mph?


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

I go as fast as I deem safe/depending what mood I'm in


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

MrBoJangles said:


> Trust me, in my car, you can't. We'll agree to differ on this one fella. I'm off to the shops!


Reality check - your Audi is an almost ten year old 2.5TDI kicking out about 160bhp and weighing in at almost 1600kgs. It has a similar power to weight ratio as a 2.0 petrol Mondeo. It's hardly a rocketship - so what's your "can't keep to 30 in my car" nonsense about?

Engaging cruise in a 30 zone is definitely NOT IAM driving. A 30 zone is full of hazards and you need to be in complete control. Cruise control is for open roads with little or no traffic not urban roads.

And your speeding "reasoning" is also flawed. I am also IAM and Cop trained (Portishead, 2002) and disagree with your "logic" completely.


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## Bel (Mar 1, 2011)

MrBoJangles said:


> Yes, because with the Audi being multitronic it's virtually impossible to stick to 30 yourself because it feels like you could open the door and run past your own car. Unless you are glued to the speedo you tend to creep up and up. Putting the cruise on prevents that and makes sure I focus on the road ahead and not my speedo.


Although I buy into the idea that speed creeps up easily and it's a massive distraction to have to keep looking at the speedo if you're unable to judge the speed of your car without doing that, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with cruise either. 30 is the limit, after all, not the target.

Now, my wife's previous car - a Mercedes - had a speed limiter where you set the maximum speed you want to drive at, and unless you push down to the kick-down detent it won't go above that.

It will go below that though, without faffing around with the controls. That's a really nice feature, and one I genuinely miss on other cars.

Bloody handy for those average speed checks in roadworks - nail it at 55 and forget about it, even in surging traffic.

Personally, I'm very respectful of urban speed limits and other than on the open road with no real reference points, I'm a pretty good judge of speed without having to continually look at my speedo.

I've owned / driven some very, very fast cars and there's not a production car in the world that "can't" do 30 (or 20...) - I drive the car, not the other way around.

And, yes, I hate the "45mph everywhere" brigade too.


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## NeilG40 (Jan 1, 2009)

I know it's only a simulator and not real life but since doing some Nascar oval races on iRacing where you're doing nearly 200mph a foot or so from the car in front and there's a car behind doing the same, if anybody tries to intimidate me by tailgating they're just wasting their time.


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## muddy911 (Mar 29, 2009)

you seem to attract bad drivers, wonder why they pick on you!


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

to many muppets on the road that ignore road rules generally nevermind speed limits i admit to using cruise in 40 + areas it is amusing to go past people, but still be within the speed limit my recent laugh was someone overtook me in a 60 mph dual carriageway there is a speed camera now most know where it is they gun it past me and try and slam on, to late the camera goes :lol: 

i have looked into doing the IAM and my usual response to tailgaters in 30mph is to slow down to ensure they know that i know they are being muppets. 

i saw someone doing around 40 + near my house today (a 30mph) its just purely stupid. 

I never will never understand EXCESSIVE speeding, tailgating etc.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

A key thing about IAM driving is to expect other road users to do something daft at ALL times and learn from mistakes rather than blame everyone else. Sure someone might do something you deem to be stupid but maybe they didn't see you or something? Just criticise yourself and learn from it or road rage will result.

It's not ALWAYS some else's fault!

(IAM driver for 14 years, cop trained at Avon and Somerset Police HQ, 2001)


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## andy-d (Sep 30, 2009)

wow didnt think it was possible to find That many t'ssers on one forum.gobsmaked at the % of utter co'ks who "well im IAM im the best"

get a grip / get real before you ruin even more the IAM's rep for those of us Without the "self importnt asshole" chip you lot have.


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

muddy911 said:


> you seem to attract bad drivers, wonder why they pick on you!


I assume that's in response to my original post.

To be honest I doubt I'm the only person on this forum that has experienced some kind of idiot on the road and dangerous driving as well.

I'm merely sharing my experience and if you notice, many people on here have seen the same kind of thing and had similar reactions from other motorist. I'm merely posting up on here as there are a lot of like minded car enthusiasts.

As for being picked on, I was simply commenting on how many drivers seem to think sticking to the speed limit is optional for them. I stick to the speed limits and have had drivers get ar$ey about it, by the looks of it I'm not the only one.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

andy-d said:


> wow didnt think it was possible to find That many t'ssers on one forum.gobsmaked at the % of utter co'ks who "well im IAM im the best"
> 
> get a grip / get real before you ruin even more the IAM's rep for those of us Without the "self importnt asshole" chip you lot have.


Calm down. IAM does attract a lot of self important goons (usually middle aged, usually with a big IAM badge on their Rover 800/Volvo V70) but it's generally a positive thing. IAM stuff is about realising you are not always right and being self aware NOT about thinking you drive better than anyone else.

Anyone that claims to be a driving god is usually a bit cr4p and aggressive. Like most things in life.


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## jay_bmw (Jan 28, 2010)

andy-d said:


> wow didnt think it was possible to find That many t'ssers on one forum.gobsmaked at the % of utter co'ks who "well im IAM im the best"
> 
> get a grip / get real before you ruin even more the IAM's rep for those of us Without the "self importnt asshole" chip you lot have.


Calm down dear,

Set your cruise control to 70 on the motorway, you'll find its not this forum its 90% of the population who do it too.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

Alex_225 said:


> I assume that's in response to my original post.
> 
> To be honest I doubt I'm the only person on this forum that has experienced some kind of idiot on the road and dangerous driving as well.
> 
> ...


Alex i have many experiences of tools on the road if i put everyone or everyone did on here the new posts page would not be about detailing i think 

i had some 5 series BM driver follow me home 2 weeks ago after i tooted at him informing him of my presence coming upto a roundabout just as he was cutting my lane. wound the window down to say why did you toot? well you cut my lane up with your backend. his passenger then started swearing at me the driver did not say another word showing some guilt 
anyhow i got called a F&^%$*$£ p8ick and he stormed off clearly wanting to be the big man with his mate in the car.

tonight dad passing car on his side following a van virtually passed it when some chav in a corsa charges at us from the opp. way  he did not want to reverse so dad begins reversing going back just checking and so slows and stops a tad by this point the chav is going for it, get really angry jumps out and starts going come the f&^% on dad goes back further he then jumps back in charges forward but leaves a large gap behind dad jumps straight through as he start throwing abuse. out of the window weirdo.

we live and learn.


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

andy-d said:


> wow didnt think it was possible to find That many t'ssers on one forum.gobsmaked at the % of utter co'ks who "well im IAM im the best"
> 
> get a grip / get real before you ruin even more the IAM's rep for those of us Without the "self importnt asshole" chip you lot have.


It's a shame you see the IAM like that as although I'm sure there are some members who think that they are God's gift to driving by being a member. It doesn't seem like they all are.

Also, I haven't seen any comments on here that are especially arrogant or seem to have a particular chip on their shoulder.

Bearing in mind that the IAM is actually a charity intended to help road safety and is supported by volunteers, it's a shame you only see it in a negative light.


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## Kai Herb (Aug 8, 2007)

I always blow a big sloppy kiss to anybody giving me flak in the car , its very hard to be agressive to somebody blowing you kisses 

They usually drive away sharpish


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

One day that might shoot you in the foot when someone follows you home for a bit of lovin' hahahaha


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

Alex_225 said:


> One day that might shoot you in the foot when someone follows you home for a bit of lovin' hahahaha


probably RP :thumb: :devil:


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## Kai Herb (Aug 8, 2007)

Alex_225 said:


> One day that might shoot you in the foot when someone follows you home for a bit of lovin' hahahaha


LOL , win win then :lol:


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Bel said:


> Now, my wife's previous car - a Mercedes - had a speed limiter where you set the maximum speed you want to drive at, and unless you push down to the kick-down detent it won't go above that.


What model is it and is that an optional extra? That sounds like a great feature


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

SteveyG said:


> What model is it and is that an optional extra? That sounds like a great feature


It's on a lot of Mercedes with CC.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2011)

Alex_225 said:


> I recently signed up with the IAM with the plan to complete my advanced driving so I make a very contious effort to stick to the limit but the reaction to me sticking to the limit is unbelievable. Now bear in mind I'm not on the brakes all the time, I use the correct gear and stick to the limit.


Good stuff :thumb: It is something I wish I'd done when much younger. It is a great intro to better driving. Probably the cheapest way to get your foot on the first rung of a very long ladder.
Be prepared for your driving to get worse before it gets better. Ironically, you'll feel like a learner again - and sometimes think you are driving like one too .
When you have completed the course, you'll have a much better understanding of speed limits.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Ninja59 said:


> probably RP :thumb: :devil:


Wouldn't follow an ovlov driver home, by the time they'd get there i'd be dust and they'd only be starting to drink their g&t


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Alex_225 said:


> One day that might shoot you in the foot when someone follows you home for a bit of lovin' hahahaha


Something about a lupo for me :argie::lol:


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

RisingPower said:


> Something about a lupo for me :argie::lol:


Here we go, that time of night again......


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Ben_ZS said:


> Here we go, that time of night again......


Oy oy, I told you to get your boot down so you could get here for some lovin! :argie::lol:


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

:lol: Oh do I? All the girls used to sing this to me at school.....






What kind of driver are you RP?

P.S LMAO at your location.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Ben_ZS said:


> :lol: Oh do I? All the girls used to sing this to me at school.....
> 
> Baby D - I Need Your Loving - YouTube
> 
> ...


I'm a calm, laid back driver who doesn't know what the gas pedal does 

In fact, this is the music I often listen to 






Well, I thought if ninja was stalking me, where wouldn't he look?  (Looks like he's lost interest in me now though )


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

Liar, I've seen the videos of you tearing up the country lanes.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Ben_ZS said:


> Liar, I've seen the videos of you tearing up the country lanes.


Sounds faster than it is :lol: (well, not anymore now the berk hfcs have been taken off)

Incidentally, those other videos, no mentioning here please


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

RisingPower said:


> Sounds faster than it is :lol: (well, not anymore now the berk hfcs have been taken off)
> 
> Incidentally, those other videos, no mentioning here please


.......ooohhh the videos you _*tried*_ to send me of you and Gok Wan? :lol:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Ben_ZS said:


> .......ooohhh the videos you _*tried*_ to send me of you and Gok Wan? :lol:


You saying I have no standards whatsoever? 

Hell no, michael scofield


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

:lol: That's enough now, down boy! :lol:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Ben_ZS said:


> :lol: That's enough now, down boy! :lol:


But those pills you gave me won't let me :lol:


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

RisingPower said:


> But those pills you gave me won't let me :lol:


'Where's my tranquiliser gun?'


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## MrBoJangles (Feb 18, 2011)

Bero said:


> So...you can speed where you deem it appropriate and to your self imposed limits? How does that work?
> 
> There's a section 50mph dual carriageway by my house - should I stick steadfast to 50mph? It was 70mph a couple weeks ago.....so it was clear you could have deemed it safe to do at least 70, maybe 80-85mph but now it should be no more than 50.0mph?


Cos I'm a big fat dirty hypocrite  I also put non recycling stuff in the recycling bin sometimes.


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## MrBoJangles (Feb 18, 2011)

335dAND110XS said:


> Reality check - your Audi is an almost ten year old 2.5TDI kicking out about 160bhp and weighing in at almost 1600kgs. It has a similar power to weight ratio as a 2.0 petrol Mondeo. It's hardly a rocketship - so what's your "can't keep to 30 in my car" nonsense about?
> 
> Engaging cruise in a 30 zone is definitely NOT IAM driving. A 30 zone is full of hazards and you need to be in complete control. Cruise control is for open roads with little or no traffic not urban roads.
> 
> And your speeding "reasoning" is also flawed. I am also IAM and Cop trained (Portishead, 2002) and disagree with your "logic" completely.


Second reality check - I am currently wearing odd socks. I don't think anyone cares though. As should nobody care how I drive, whether I use cruise as a cap or not.

I'm leaving this thread now. It's turned into a keyboard warrior slanging match. Where's Bailes when you need him? Lol.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

My 2p worth...

I'll use cruise in a 30 quite frequently and depending on my observations/road conditions will slow it down or disengage as required.

I'm also a fan of the speed limiter on Mercs - why don't all cars have this?

I generally don't speed at all however I do occasionally when out for a blast on my motorbike. I'm an IAM member and have had riding assessments/training with Strathclyde Police.

A few people here criticising where I don't see it's justified. Opinions will differ but if we're observing well and driving to the conditions I don't see what the stress is all about.

I will say that the IAM does it's fair share of 'holier than thou' crew. The only member of the 'Key Personnel' that I have had the pleasure of meeting is an **** - I couldn't believe he was a member of the IAM when I met him nevermind a vice president of the entire organisation. In his words 'motorcycles should be banned completely' and anyone who rides one is 'utterly stupid'. He runs a caravan storage facility just up the road from me. Complete ***.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

grantwils said:


> I'm also a fan of the speed limiter on Mercs - why don't all cars have this?


my car has a speed limiter.. but to be honest going downhill it will naturally creep over the set limit by a few mph..

wont let you accelerate past it though..


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## Bel (Mar 1, 2011)

SteveyG said:


> What model is it and is that an optional extra? That sounds like a great feature


The first time I saw it was when she picked up a new A class in... erm... 1999 I think, so it's been around for a while.

She's had it on a couple of coupés since then too, and a driver I use has it on his S-class so I reckon it must be available across the whole range.

It gets packaged with cruise control.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

MrBoJangles said:


> Second reality check - I am currently wearing odd socks. I don't think anyone cares though. As should nobody care how I drive, whether I use cruise as a cap or not.
> 
> I'm leaving this thread now. It's turned into a keyboard warrior slanging match. Where's Bailes when you need him? Lol.


Well if you're going to try and make an old derv 160 bhp Audi sound like a Bentley Continental Supersport then you should expect some stick.

As for keyboard warriors, do you want my IAM membership number and join date? How about my Intensive Police driving course pass date and location? And maybe photos of our car that, while hardly a super car, is still almost twice as powerful as yours yet is still easy to hold at under 10 or even 20, let alone 30. No warrior tactics here - or from anyone else I can see contributing to this thread.

If anything, you come across as one seeing as you claim to have taken and passed the IAM test yet have an attitude completely at odds with it's most fundamental principles.


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

My 3p

My car holds 30mph very nicely thank you.

5.5 litre V8 400+bhp / 434lb torque.

At the same time she will get to 60+ shy of 5 seconds & hit 160mph+

Anyone who says their car is hard to drive at 30 is talking out of there poophole.

It's not about how good a driver you are ( saying to all ) or how good your car is. What about the person in front or behind you ? < Always assume they don't know what they are doing.

Limits are there for a reason. Be safe people, not a statistic.

:thumb:


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

All cars come fitted with free speed limiter, you'll normally find it just between the ears..:doublesho

If you can't keep your car at 30mph when required, then you shouldn't really be behind a wheel should you? Just a thought..


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

DampDog said:


> All cars come fitted with free speed limiter, you'll normally find it just between the ears..:doublesho
> 
> *If you can't keep your car at 30mph when required, then you shouldn't really be behind a wheel should you?* Just a thought..


And you (as in Mr super car Audi 2.5TDI driver) most definitely are NOT an IAM driver too! :thumb:


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

When I bought my R11 Turbo I was amazed at how suddenly magnetic the
rear end of a car can become. The number of times I got put into quite
compromising and very unsafe situations by idiots trying to "beat the turbo" 
got to the point where I took the rear-facing badge off. Instant stress relief...

I can remember back in the day when the Mk2 Cortina GTs came out. My dad
was a rep and he took the all the GT insignia off within a fortnight of getting
the car. When I replaced the R11T with the R5GTT, the badges came off just
as soon as I could. This was in the days when VWs couldn't keep a badge
with all the "medallion collectors" about, so that was easier said than done.

The Laguna Coupe, thankfully, is totally devoid of all the go-faster bits and, 
despite its Aston looks from behind, I don't get too many tailgaters. A light 
touch on the footbrake presents an instant and distinctive light-pattern, so 
infrequent use makes it all the more potent when they are lit. CC or SL are 
standard fitments and useful in 50mph average speed checks. 

Regards,
Steve


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

335dAND110XS said:


> And you (as in Mr super car Audi 2.5TDI driver) most definitely are NOT an IAM driver too! :thumb:


You've lost me there, what have I missed? I've got a ickle Polo 1.2...


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Damp - sorry, I put that very badly! I meant Mr BoJangles (or whatever he's called) not you!!!


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

335dAND110XS said:


> Damp - sorry, I put that very badly! I meant Mr BoJangles (or whatever he's called) not you!!!


ROFL... Just gone back and caught up on this thread in it's entirety, it's all gone a bit mad hasn't it... Must be something in the water..


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

RisingPower said:


> Well, I thought if ninja was stalking me, where wouldn't he look?  (Looks like he's lost interest in me now though )


yeah your to mean towards me looting my G & T during the riots. pah you cheap skate.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

DampDog said:


> ROFL... Just gone back and caught up on this thread in it's entirety, it's all gone a bit mad hasn't it... Must be something in the water..


i think its from sniffing to many products with solvents.


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

Ninja59 said:


> i think its from sniffing to many products with solvents.


Lol.. Wouldn't that give you a shiny nose too?


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

I dont understand poeple who think anyone who speeds is dangerous. Speed doesnt cause crashing, poor driving does. I been on an advanced Police Motorbike Course and they even push you to speed up to around 120 and when we all stopped for lunch you talk to the police about it and they even said speed isnt dangerous when used in the right situations and by the right people. The problem arises when people drive outside their skill limit.

Speed cameras are not there to save lives they are there to make money plain and simple. Near where i used to live they changed the Dual Carriageway from a 70 to 50 and most days there would be 2 speed cameras there, one van and one static, but there are no houses or driveway and the road going the other way is separated by a grass vergre 15m wide so where is the danger. People get annoyed in UK as some of the 30s are rediculous. I agree around schools and populated areas but some of the limits dont have a house in sight or even a path.

All the skid marks leading up to the speed camera is what is danagerous. I seen people doing the speed limit and catch the camera out of the corner of their eye and slam on the brakes. Thats more dangerous than every body doing 80 or 90.

And I can totally agree with has been said about keeping a car at 30. It has nothing to do with the power of a car, it has to do with the comfort. If you go in some little chavs car doing 70 feels like a death trap and feels like your going hell for leather but in a nice merc or range rover or soemthing the sensation of speed is reduced and your speed does creep up.

Rant over lol


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Ninja59 said:


> yeah your to mean towards me looting my G & T during the riots. pah you cheap skate.


I was looting your pimms actually  I also see you've lost interest in me :lol:


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

Bod42 said:


> All the skid marks leading up to the speed camera is what is dangerous. I seen people doing the speed limit and catch the camera out of the corner of their eye and slam on the brakes. That's more dangerous than every body doing 80 or 90.


I'd imagine they're the same sort of skid marks you see when they've hit a kid on a bike or crossing the road and say they never saw them, "they came out of nowhere officer" If you can't see a big fecking yellow box, and all the signs proceeding it you're observations are basically rubbish. The same arrogant basically sh1t drivers, who think that the speed limit doesn't apply to them because they're better drivers than everyone else, and speed doesn't kill.

Fact, hit a pedestrian at 40mph and there's an 80% they'll die.
Fact, hit a pedestrian at 30mph and there's an 80% they'll live.

The truth of the matter is that a minority of drivers think that they are way better drivers than they actually are. That their skill levels and observations are somehow better, their car control skills are way above that of mere mortals, that they can judge road and traffic conditions to a higher degree than everyone else. Fact of the matter is their ego is bigger than their intellect.

If you want to drive quickly and find your limits book a track day and enjoy without endangering anyone else.


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

Frequently use cruise control in 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s. If the road allows it. 

I know that the speed is constant and i can forget about the speedo and observe fully.

I usually get a middle aged female swearing at me. Quite often i get overtaken on the way out of a village on my way home. I just let them go. Chill out and worry about my journey. 

I am not IAM FWIW. Just an ordinary bloke in an ordinary car.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

Gruffs said:


> Frequently use cruise control in 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s. If the road allows it.
> 
> I know that the speed is constant and i can forget about the speedo and observe fully.
> 
> ...


+1 on that lot


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

RisingPower said:


> I was looting your pimms actually  I also see you've lost interest in me :lol:


yes


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

I'm going to stand up for MrBoJangles - in an Audi Multitronic (a CVH box) on a big engine it's very difficult to maintain a constant speed without watching the speedo. The engine revs aren't related to speed in that box and the easiest way to judge speed increase is noise. Try driving an electric car at a constant speed, or try driving with your music up louder than the engine and doing it - you realise just how much you rely on it!

However, a cursory glance down at the dash every 10 seconds isn't going to kill you - but it may not be often enough to save your licence.

Just a thought, in his defence.

And I use cruise control in a 30, but what people seem to forget is as soon as you do anything with the controls (clutch, brake, gears) it drops off. I really don't see what the issue is as I'm perched over clutch and brake pedal so if anything in a better position to react than having to take my foot off the accelerator and apply the brake? Not all of us use it so we don't have to think, just so we don't have to watch the speedo (valid point on gradient-based speed pickup, although I just use the gears to restrict that as mine seems quite capable of dealing with it that way).


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

The thing is controlling the cars speed is a BASIC skill that everyone should have. When you take you're test you're not allowed to use cruise control, it's a necessary skill that you're marked on.

If you are comfortable with it and want to use it, that's fine.

We've sort of come away from the OP that was addressing aggressive driving from other road users when you're sticking to the limit, which is another issue.

No one drives at exactly "30" all of the time, most drivers wander around it 28-34ish. The law takes that into account, no one get booked for speeding at 32mph. IIRC it's about 10% + 2mph, so anything above 35. No holding 30mph exactly isn't the issue, the issue is that some people think that the law doesn't apply to them because they know better.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

I appreciate that, but you need some form of sensory input to be able to control that car's speed. With a multitronic box, you don't get the engine revs rise or fall to any amount at 30, as it's not a 'fixed' ratio. The speed at which things pass you won't become a decent factor as to how fast you perceive your speed to be until you've probably crossed the threshold for a telling off. When you're looking at a car pulling out of a sideroad, if you focus on the front it can be as much as a half metre move before you notice, yet if you look at the wheels it's much more obvious. It's about having a point of reference to that speed, and for the majority of the population it's the sound of the engine.

And you can (and people have been) booked at as little as 33 real mph. There are no 'hard and fast' guidelines, and cars speedometers are optimistic for this purpose. Hence why the majority of people 'get away' with 35mph, but not always.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Well if it's so hard to maintain a safe speed in, then it shouldn't be on the road.

I'm not condemning a bit of speed on big clear roads - I don't know many that truly stick to 70 on a motorway - but I do think speeding in a 30 is very daft. And if you can't stick to that limit, change your "Super powerful super hi tech" Audi (that's 9 years old and has the same power/weight ratio as a run of the mill rep-mobile) for something else.

My soot chucking BM is virtually silent at 30 but I have a thing called a speedo that I find handy to use.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

I'm not condoning speeding, and he's already said how he maintains his speed. And, in fairness I'm sure he, too, could look at his speedometer every five seconds to make sure he doesn't get a ticket - however this is IMO worse than actually doing 35mph in the first place! The fact of the matter is it takes time to adjust to new stimuli, and it's something I think the world is going to have to get used to with electric cars because I drive my car by engine revs, and know what speed it's doing by the noise it's making and knowing what gear I'm in. The multitronic doesn't have 'gears' so much as 'defined parameters' for people who want to use flappy paddles, so you remove that input from someone and it's going to throw them! I think that's the crux of the matter, not that he drives some kind of supercar that can do 2000000000 miles per hour, or that he drives a silent car.

And I don't think you're really one to preach about super powerful super high tech, let's be fair your engine's hardly the pinnacle of engineering. I have no idea when this turned into the size of a man's ***** (sorry, turbocharger), but it's wholly unnecessary and irrelevant to this discussion - in all fairness I'd take the 9-year-old A6's interior over the 1990's styling cues of a 3-series dashboard, but again that's utterly irrelevant to this discussion - don't you think


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Mike - *you* chose to get a little snidey, not me.

I simply pointed out that BoJ was rather over doing his car's capabilities (under the lame disguise of "not being able to stick to 30) seeing as it would get out-dragged by your average warm hatch.

But FYI the 335d engine is still unbeaten for size/power/torque and emissions, has two turbos, not one and is actually one of the most advanced diesels out there - six years after it was released (in it's current form). 286bhp/428lbs-ft for 179g/km is still hard to beat. So if you want to be snidey, get your facts right. It leaves a 2.5TDI engine from an old Audi in the dark ages.

But hey, you seem to think the only thing that really matters is your opinion of a car's dashboard design - perhaps you aren't that well placed to comment on safety, engine sophistication and engineering quality?


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

335dAND110XS said:


> Mike - *you* chose to get a little snidey, not me.


I'm half tempted to stick two fingers to this forum, I am absolutely disgusted at the complete double standards that are evident in the way members deal with each other. For your reference, you posted:

_Reality check - your Audi is an almost ten year old 2.5TDI kicking out about 160bhp and weighing in at almost 1600kgs. It has a similar power to weight ratio as a 2.0 petrol Mondeo. It's hardly a rocketship - so what's your "can't keep to 30 in my car" nonsense about?

Well if you're going to try and make an old derv 160 bhp Audi sound like a Bentley Continental Supersport then you should expect some stick.

Mr super car Audi 2.5TDI driver

"Super powerful super hi tech" Audi (that's 9 years old and has the same power/weight ratio as a run of the mill rep-mobile)_

Nobody other than yourself started the snidey bandwagon, and you only have yourself to blame. And for the record, I had an 18 year old Audi that would tear a 335d a new anus. Age isn't everything, hey?



335dAND110XS said:


> I simply pointed out that BoJ was rather over doing his car's capabilities (under the lame disguise of "not being able to stick to 30) seeing as it would get out-dragged by your average warm hatch.


I've yet to actually see this, all he said was that at 30 the car feels like you could get out and walk past it. I know what he means, having driven one, the gearbox is the most bizarre thing in the world as the revs just drop off when it gets to 30. You can then get to 40 and the revs barely even twitch! I don't see any post where he proclaimed it was a Bentley beater, or for that matter any better than any other car? You seem to have the typical BMW over Audi disease, trying to justify your purchase by attacking anyone else's car. Now don't mistake me for an Audi fanboy - they were responsible for the most miserable motoring experience I've ever had, but I don't think it's fair to slate someone's pride and joy because they simply stated how their car feels to them to drive.



335dAND110XS said:


> But FYI the 335d engine is still unbeaten for size/power/torque and emissions, has two turbos, not one and is actually one of the most advanced diesels out there - six years after it was released (in it's current form). 286bhp/428lbs-ft for 179g/km is still hard to beat. So if you want to be snidey, get your facts right. It leaves a 2.5TDI engine from an old Audi in the dark ages.
> 
> But hey, you seem to think the only thing that really matters is your opinion of a car's dashboard design - perhaps you aren't that well placed to comment on safety, engine sophistication and engineering quality?


The 335d isn't the first twin turbocharged car in the world, neither was it the first sequential twin turbo, neither is it the most powerful engine in the world. Neither is it the most entertaining to drive, nor does it run on petrol so nobody could ever justify buying one 'for fun'. Because let's face it, you bought it because petrol for a 335i (in fact, petrol for anything as quick as a 335d) costs too much. As did everyone else who bought theirs. It doesn't suddenly elevate you to the position of 'Lord Supreme of Motorcars, Master of All with Combustion Engines and the Final Word on Vehicles'. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for the 335d and indeed a lot of BMW's cars because they are good fun to drive and many of them are good mile munchers.

But **** me, lose the better than thou attitude, hey? :thumb: I can appreciate that you're proud of your BMW, and that you spent a lot of money on it and that it's a very nice motor, but just because my Volvo's only £10k's worth, and only has one turbo, and only has a 2.4 litre 5-pot, and is 4 years old, doesn't mean I can't be very pleased with it and proud of it. Given how much financial hell I've been through to get to this point in my life, I don't think I'm doing too badly, but that's besides the point - suffice to say it's a lot of money to me and I've every right to be proud of it, as does MrBoJangles of his Audi, as does my mate who will be very proud of his £750 Fiesta when he buys it because it'll be 'his' car.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

The 335d is more expensive than a 335i.
The 335i blows up HPFPs on an almost annual basis.
The 335d beat a 335i (MANUAL) around Bruntingthorpe in a big mag test. I have the copy on file.

But that's just me correcting a few assumptions and errors. This is about BoJ making out his car is come snarling rocket that can hardly be kept to legal speed limits because it is so fast - I can't be bothered to quote his exact line but it was very clear that the aim was to shout about his snarling soot chucker and it's immense power.

While doing that he also proclaimed to be an IAM driver - as a member for 13 years (I was also invited to be a trustee), I can pretty confidently state that he is NOT an IAM driver having read his lame justifications laced with misguided ego self-boosting.

As for yourself and your four pot Ford Foc...I mean Volvo C30 - nice looking car but it's a FWD, four pot soot chucker based on a Focus. And you're having a pop at a 335d...

As for the 18 year old Audi - an RS2 maybe? Sure it's powerful and quick off the line but it has no brakes, understeers horribly and gets a comically slow lap time here - beaten by pretty much every hot hatch on the road AND a Vauxhall Zafira!!!

http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/audi_rs2.html

A 335d lapped a mere two seconds slower than an E90 M3, 0.1 faster than a 335i and battered a current shape Impreza STI at Bruntingthorpe. Sorry, what did you say about age?


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

OvlovMike said:


> I'm not condoning speeding, and he's already said how he maintains his speed. And, in fairness I'm sure he, too, could look at his speedometer every five seconds to make sure he doesn't get a ticket - however this is IMO worse than actually doing 35mph in the first place!


C'mon lets be serious about it, if you think it's necessary to check your speed every 5 seconds you either shouldn't be driving anyway because you're not up to it. Or you're driving so erratically that you need some serious re-training.

The big "powerful car argument is just lame". The new variable gearbox technology does mean that using the "engine sound" may not be a straight forwards as a manual, but hey that's why cars have speedometers!

Threads gone mad, it's gone from condemning aggressive driving to justifying speeding.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

335dAND110XS said:


> As for yourself and your four pot Ford Foc...I mean Volvo C30 - nice looking car but it's a FWD, four pot soot chucker based on a Focus. And you're having a pop at a 335d...


Firstly, not mine, secondly, read my point about everybody having every right to be proud of their vehicle.

Thirdly, I've got a list as long as your arm of cars I've owned that I, as would many others, choose hand over fist over a repmobile. You're really onto a loser there, so I suggest you take on the chin that a 335d is never going to be the cream of Detailing World, but should never have to be. I joined this forum on the grounds that it's a collection of people who utterly love their cars, and the idea is not to have the most exotic car on the planet, but to have something that you're incredibly proud of and wouldn't swap for the world, because it's YOURS.

I really think you're just standing out as a Grade A pillock at the moment, because let's face it a £40k oilburner isn't the nicest motor on here - so it's not even like you're in the position to act like it, if it were even welcome!

Whether he's IAM or not, your response was unjustified and unfair. By all means pick issue with his approach to driving if there is fault you can find, I don't particularly care - but that's his pride and joy and he didn't once try to advertise it as anything more than that. He said his speed was deceptive, and having done 180mph in a heavily modified S4, I can agree - speed is entirely down to perception. It's why I don't like driving home after a long trackday - your perception is all to ****, and I like to have an hour to wind down.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

DampDog said:


> C'mon lets be serious about it, if you think it's necessary to check your speed every 5 seconds you either shouldn't be driving anyway because you're not up to it. Or you're driving so erratically that you need some serious re-training.
> 
> The big "powerful car argument is just lame". The new variable gearbox technology does mean that using the "engine sound" may not be a straight forwards as a manual, but hey that's why cars have speedometers!
> 
> Threads gone mad, it's gone from condemning aggressive driving to justifying speeding.


If you've got no reference to your present speed, you're going to need to check your speedometer more regularly. That's a given. You take one point of reference away, you're going to have to find another.

He didn't try the whole big powerful car argument, he just said that his car (let's face it, an A6 is fairly well insulated for sound as well) feels particularly deceptive and with the gearbox on it you don't have that reference. I don't think it's an unfair statement!

I'll say again, I must have some form of translator between here and you, I'm not trying to justify speeding - it's ultimately the pink squidgy thing's responsibility to control their speed, and how they do that is their choice surely?!

:wall:


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

Com on peeps there any need for this "mines better than yours is" guff..

From "Road rage" to "thread rage..."

Play nice.. or I'll take your polish off you..



> If you've got no reference to your present speed, you're going to need to check your speedometer more regularly. That's a given. You take one point of reference away, you're going to have to find another.


Yes but every 5 seconds? Never..



> He didn't try the whole big powerful car argument, he just said that his car (let's face it, an A6 is fairly well insulated for sound as well) feels particularly deceptive and with the gearbox on it you don't have that reference. I don't think it's an unfair statement!


Yes again, that's why I said he has a speedometer. It's not a mystical thing that if you take a glance at it you instantly career off the road. You look at lots of things while driving that aren't "the road" mirrors, pedestrians, kids on the pavement, blind-spots.

The margin between controlling the speed of a big powerful executive limo and a beat up old banger is so insignificant it's just not part of the argument.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

335dAND110XS said:


> As for the 18 year old Audi - an RS2 maybe? Sure it's powerful and quick off the line but it has no brakes, understeers horribly and gets a comically slow lap time here - beaten by pretty much every hot hatch on the road AND a Vauxhall Zafira!!!
> 
> http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/audi_rs2.html
> 
> A 335d lapped a mere two seconds slower than an E90 M3, 0.1 faster than a 335i and battered a current shape Impreza STI at Bruntingthorpe. Sorry, what did you say about age?


An S2 with 6-piston Brembo calipers on the front, 4-piston Brembo calipers on the rear, larger turbo, over 400bhp and coilovers. Destroyed an E46 M3 on a trackday. Was a while ago, they didn't have the E90 at the time. It's irrelevant, but again you're dismissing other people's cars hand over fist because 'you're the best person in the world'?! You can add an Exige S, Clio V6, Biturbo S4 and a 911 Turbo to the list of cars in my past. You've no idea how I got to where I am now, or what's happened along the way. Frankly, I find your attitude derogatory, insulting and entirely unnecessary. A nasty separation and a period of unemployment, and I'm just grateful for my two Volvos and the roof over my head, and don't need some jumped up shoe with a repmobile demeaning the sum of my life's work. Bluntly.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

DampDog said:


> Com on peeps there any need for this "mines better than yours is" guff..
> 
> From "Road rage" to "thread rage..."
> 
> Play nice.. or I'll take your polish off you..


I've no idea what prompted Mr. 335d to decide that he wanted to completely destroy someone's pride and joy in public? It infuriates me no end. Just because I don't have a ***** extension on my drive, doesn't mean I didn't work f*cking hard for it or that it doesn't mean the world to me.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Okay Mike, seeing as you are such a fan of quoting...



MrBoJangles said:


> Trust me, in my car, you can't. We'll agree to differ on this one fella. I'm off to the shops!


Now, can it be made any clearer?

You're "don't boast about your car" comments are completely hypocritical - always followed by bleating about what cars you've owned/driven. You have no idea what I've driven or owned, I took at guess at your Audi and you clearly have access to a C30 - at least I'm not just guessing and then firing random shots in a lame attempts at patronisation.

Hey I've tested a car for a National newspaper, was insured on a new 355, etc - that's only scratching the surface but hey, I'm sure you've done several better eh?

But I do agree, this forum is about passion for what cars we own be they a Perodua or a Porsche, a Fiat or a Ferrari.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

335dAND110XS said:


> Okay Mike, seeing as you are such a fan of quoting...
> 
> Now, can it be made any clearer?
> 
> ...


He's got a bloody valid point! The Multitronic box removes the permanent link between engine revs (and hence noise) to speed. I judge my speed by the tone of my engine, and if you took that away from me I'd be lost until I worked out how to tell this now. Having driven an electric car, I can entirely understand the issue he has - and I'm not talking about one of those Noddy things because they make more noise than anything when you're driving them.

I've not tested cars for a national newspaper, and I've not owned a 355 (although I've driven similarly exotic metal, it's really irrelevant) however I didn't leap in with size 10s because someone said that they don't get the perception of speed in their car and start telling them that their pride and joy was a 10-year-old piece of ****?! Tell me where, in this entire thread, I'm supposed to draw the conclusion from your posts that you're out for anything other than demonstrating how utterly fantastic you are because you drive a 335d?! My point isn't that you cannot boast about your car - obviously rubbing people's noses in it will wind them up but my point is you shouldn't sit there pulling someone's pride and joy apart verbally. Prime example, having gotten bored of MrBoJangles' Audi, you decided you wanted to set about my partner's C30 - I won't tell her, she'd probably be extremely upset because when I turned up with it she cried exclaiming that it was 'the nicest thing she'd ever had'. Who are you to take that away from someone?!


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

OvlovMike said:


> He's got a bloody valid point! The Multitronic box removes the permanent link between engine revs (and hence noise) to speed. I judge my speed by the tone of my engine, and if you took that away from me I'd be lost until I worked out how to tell this now.


Sounds like a bad way of judging speed.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

SteveyG said:


> Sounds like a bad way of judging speed.


Why? I know what noise my car makes at 30, 40, 50, 60 and 70. Not least of which, I get my car to that speed, validate it with the speedo, and then can detect changes in engine speed associated with an increase or decrease in pitch? It means I rarely have to check my speed and can travel the entire length of the M1 roadworks without having to check my speedo, knowing that I'll get to the other end without a speeding ticket?


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Mike - you need to calm down.

Not only do we agree on something at last, we also share the same shoe size ;-)

I actually think the 2.5TDI Audi is a decent motor - it was fairly ground breaking at the time; the main weakness of blowing clutches up (a fleet manager I knew had to return 70 of them when they started self destructing - they bought a fleet of Volvos to replace them) is removed with the multitronic box.

I did not destroy the car - it's fairly pokey, well made and hi tech for it's year. I simply stated that it isn't actually very quick as the OP clearly implied. So what? My 110 Defender is probably one of the slowest cars to 60 on sale today - but it's brilliant for our needs. see, calling a car slow(ish) isn't actually slagging it off is it?

A Ford Puma 1.7 isn't at all quick but it's one of the best FWD handlers ever made, etc, etc etc.

Just chill out, agree we both enjoy cars and calm down - I find the people you often disagree with most are commonly those sharing the same(ish) passions.

As for judging speed - surely the rate at which things pass is a good start? I can safely say that myself and many others here could judge the speed of a completely silent car being driven anywhere with regular reference points.


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2011)

SteveyG said:


> Sounds like a bad way of judging speed.


It's a great way of judging speed.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

335dAND110XS said:


> Mike - you need to calm down.
> 
> Not only do we agree on something at last, we also share the same shoe size ;-)
> 
> ...


I still don't buy that the OP tried to inference that it was quick, but we'll have to split opinion on that one.

As for passing objects, it depends on the frequency of the reference points and how often you're passing such things. Walking pedestrians aren't a good start because if you pass granny with her shopping cart at the same speed some way down the road from passing myself on a mission to the shops, your speed will have dropped considerably yet you'd still pass me in the same time frame. Plus, you're looking at a percentage variation in something that isn't a side-by-side comparison - something that humans are notoriously bad at. Just look at the number of people who can't do seconds even with 'elephant' or whatever they use to judge a second in their mind! :thumb:

And calming down sir. I just really, really get annoyed when people start attacking things that people pay for. I give PS3 owners stick, but only tongue-in-cheek, because ultimately they paid good money for that and they like it - many people it's their pride and joy! My friend has (in his words) a 'pokey little house on a bad estate', but it's his pride and joy.

I was always brought up to show people's posessions respect, whether I agree with their choice or not, and I think it's an important value that's missing all too often in society. 

P.S. I'm a 12


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Can you people not drive with music on then?



335dAND110XS said:


> As for judging speed - surely the rate at which things pass is a good start? I can safely say that myself and many others here could judge the speed of a completely silent car being driven anywhere with regular reference points.


Exactly :thumb:


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

SteveyG said:


> Can you people not drive with music on then?


I don't drive in a 30 with loud music for that reason and because it's distracting. On the motorway the cruise control goes on, so engine note isn't an issue.

I don't see how this is such a bad idea?! Surely as long as it's legal, I don't see 'how' it's achieved as ever being an issue?


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

I luv ta crruze wiv me phat choons down dem urban streets.

For that reason I find the visual judgement of speed is of the utmost importance.


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

OvlovMike said:


> I don't drive in a 30 with loud music for that reason and because it's distracting.


In my days as instructor I would actively teach that when in town, radio off or very low and window slightly down. You can often hear things coming way before you are able to see them, either ahead or in your mirrors. The beeps from a set of pedestrian crossings for eg. Even guys on mopeds sneaking up winding in and out of traffic or the emergency services. Plus a cars much easier to drive if you can hear the engine note.


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

DampDog said:


> In my days as instructor I would actively teach that when in town, radio off or very low and window slightly down. You can often hear things coming way before you are able to see them, either ahead or in your mirrors. The beeps from a set of pedestrian crossings for eg. *Even guys on mopeds sneaking up winding in and out of traffic* or the emergency services. Plus a cars much easier to drive if you can hear the engine note.


^ crikey, you don't need the music down where I live to hear them - they all drive around like a swarm of flies with their exhaust baffles removed :wall:

Sorry, just went OT....carry on gang :thumb:


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Kriminal said:


> ^ crikey, you don't need the music down where I live to hear them - they all drive around like a swarm of flies with their exhaust baffles removed :wall:
> 
> Sorry, just went OT....carry on gang :thumb:


I find the best way to fix that is to open your door. Just a half a centimetre or so!

Drive me mental. I've had to give up motorcycling (due to aforementioned fiscal maladies) but I don't miss the resentment by most of the population generated by that sort of individual.


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

335dAND110XS said:


> I luv ta crruze wiv me phat choons down dem urban streets.


 :wall::wall::wall:

http://fridaypage.com/images/fridaypage/061005_blaupunkt.wmv

http://fridaypage.com/images/fridaypage/093005_audiobridge.wmv


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

OvlovMike said:


> I find the best way to fix that is to open your door. Just a half a centimetre or so!


SNAP!

Then just as the moped tries to filter down between you and the car next to you....you flick the door open and WHAP! :tumbleweed: maybe thats just me.


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## DagenhamGeoff (Mar 20, 2011)

Just a quick quwstion, holding your speed at 30...........how about in an auto, downhill, foot of the gas, the speed still creeps up so do you constantly touch-brake to adjust the speed?.........would this have to be done several times, dependant on the decline of the hill? if so would this not endanger a driver behind me by being constantly dazzled by brake lights...........as for the guys that how being "my ones bigger than yours" etc...does it matter, it`s still a killing machine no mater how good you drive (or think you drive)


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

DampDog said:


> I'd imagine they're the same sort of skid marks you see when they've hit a kid on a bike or crossing the road and say they never saw them, "they came out of nowhere officer" If you can't see a big fecking yellow box, and all the signs proceeding it you're observations are basically rubbish. The same arrogant basically sh1t drivers, who think that the speed limit doesn't apply to them because they're better drivers than everyone else, and speed doesn't kill.
> 
> Fact, hit a pedestrian at 40mph and there's an 80% they'll die.
> Fact, hit a pedestrian at 30mph and there's an 80% they'll live.
> ...


When did I ever say I wanted to find my limit, speeding slightly when the conditions are right is not finding your limit.

If speed was the biggest killer like the police make out then why do the police speed when chasing someone or trying to get to a scene quickly. Their resoning is because they are skilled drivers which shows speed doesnt kill bad drivers do.

Your saying a similar thing to me, Im saying driver error causes a high percentage of crashes because people over estimate their driving skill level. We differ on the speed issue. The police will report every crash is down to speed as they want to make money but if someone takes a corner at 40 and crashes when numerous other people take the corner at the same speed that has nothing to do with speed that is poor driver skill.

I'm not saying you should speed in a 30 especially near schools and things, I'm saying drive to the road conditions and if I'm on a Dual Carriage way with no buildings, houses, people, animals in site and there are fields both sides so you can see clearly for miles why on earth should I sit at 50 when it is perfectly safe to be doing 70.


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

DagenhamGeoff said:


> Just a quick quwstion, holding your speed at 30...........how about in an auto, downhill, foot of the gas, the speed still creeps up so do you constantly touch-brake to adjust the speed?.........would this have to be done several times, dependant on the decline of the hill? if so would this not endanger a driver behind me by being constantly dazzled by brake lights...........as for the guys that how being "my ones bigger than yours" etc...does it matter, it`s still a killing machine no mater how good you drive (or think you drive)


Very good point that Geoff and something I actually find that my car does, sorry to discuss size but it's relevant on your point, at weighing just under 2 tons I do find that on a downhill section the speed does indeed pick up more i.e when foot is off the gas etc, well certainly more than many other cars I have driven, so yes I do have to be more on the brakes.

However and sure depends on the decline of the hill, most people brake to maintain a slower speed in general.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

DagenhamGeoff said:


> Just a quick quwstion, holding your speed at 30...........how about in an auto, downhill, foot of the gas, the speed still creeps up so do you constantly touch-brake to adjust the speed?.........would this have to be done several times, dependant on the decline of the hill? if so would this not endanger a driver behind me by being constantly dazzled by brake lights...........as for the guys that how being "my ones bigger than yours" etc...does it matter, it`s still a killing machine no mater how good you drive (or think you drive)


From a purely objective view point it's illegal to have lights that dazzle other road users. Can you not push the auto stick forward so it holds a specific gear? I guess thats one of the reasons you have that option.


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

Bod42 said:


> When did I ever say I wanted to find my limit, speeding slightly when the conditions are right is not finding your limit.


Wasn't particularly aimed at yourself, I was just suggesting if you want to drive quickly at speeds way above the legal limit and push yourself and car then there are better and safer places to do it than on the public roads. Plus a chance to drive a pretty useful car if you choose to.



> If speed was the biggest killer like the police make out then why do the police speed when chasing someone or trying to get to a scene quickly. Their reasoning is because they are skilled drivers which shows speed doesn't kill bad drivers do.


Never said speed is the "biggest killer" simply said that speed kills, I didn't qualify it with anything else. In many accidents it contributes to the drivers other various errors. As for your reasoning if your trained speed doesn't kill in just wrong. Why do you think they invest money in training traffic officers. It's not to allow they to drive quickly, it's to minimise the risks of driving at speed because they know it's inherently more dangerous. Also traffic cars carry two officers, so they have "two pairs of eyes" and work as a team when necessary.



> Your saying a similar thing to me, Im saying driver error causes a high percentage of crashes because people over estimate their driving skill level.


EXACTLY...:doublesho People think they're better driver than they are, so it justifies them speeding "When they think it's safe" When they get it wrong people die.. What you're say is I know how good a driver I am, I'll decide what's safe... that way lies madness..



> We differ on the speed issue. The police will report every crash is down to speed as they want to make money but if someone takes a corner at 40 and crashes when numerous other people take the corner at the same speed that has nothing to do with speed that is poor driver skill.


The police don't make any money out of accidents, they just pick up the pieces



> I'm not saying you should speed in a 30 especially near schools and things, I'm saying drive to the road conditions and if I'm on a Dual Carriage way with no buildings, houses, people, animals in site and there are fields both sides so you can see clearly for miles why on earth should I sit at 50 when it is perfectly safe to be doing 70.


What you're saying is that you condone speeding (breaking the law) when you see fit. ie the rules don't allpy to me, I know better than everyone else.
Generally speed limits are put in place to keep people safe from harm. If you're driving down a Dual Carriage way with no buildings, houses, people, animals in site and there are fields both sides so you can see clearly for miles and the limit is 50, why do you feel the need to do 70 anyway?


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

The_Bouncer said:


> Very good point that Geoff and something I actually find that my car does, sorry to discuss size but it's relevant on your point, at weighing just under 2 tons I do find that on a downhill section the speed does indeed pick up more i.e when foot is off the gas etc, well certainly more than many other cars I have driven, so yes I do have to be more on the brakes.
> 
> However and sure depends on the decline of the hill, most people brake to maintain a slower speed in general.


Try extreme off roading or driving down steep icey slopes - that REALLY tests your low speed skills. Even idling can be too fast as times! This is of course in our (two tonne) Landy, not the BM- it's so cack on anything hinting at off road or snow that we just leave it at home when these conditions threaten.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

There are a few roads on the way to my Mrs' work that I struggle to hold 40 on without using brakes, as you have to hold the engine in 2nd for it to hold the car back and it just feels a touch unsympathetic.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Revving like mad always sound a bit aggro even when it's completely necessary.

Anyone here do sustained down changes (manual)? A very good way of changing down a cog extremely smoothly but it can be noisy. Learned it in rozzer training.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

I tend to use sustained changes, but I rarely change gear anyway as I live on the motorway and then join a traffic jam into busy cities for most of my motoring life... Oh, the joys! I'd have had a slushbox if it didn't cost me anything up to 10mpg. Don't like these dual-clutch things, too expensive to fix and nobody seems to know how to.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Often need them in the Landy because the box is rather ahem, agricultural. You really have to grab it by the scruff of the neck (or chassis...)to get it moving properly. Sustained changes help smooth it a wee bit.

Also not sold on all these semi auto boxes - yes they are great for razzing off the lights but I reckon they are a complete PITA in very low speed manoeuvres like three point turns. I prefer proper auto or proper manual - a bit luddite but I don't care!

Loads of rural roads around here so fun in a Landy or a vaguely nippy motor.

Drove to North Wales two weeks ago - the Llanberis pass was true driving heaven!


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

I think dual-clutch boxes make sense for 'small' engines - 2litre Diesels, 1.4 Twincharged things and 2litre petrol turbos and the likes but as soon as you cross 2litre and have 5+ cylinders a proper auto just feels 'nicer'.

However, they're less fuel efficient than these fiddly things so I suspect we're both stuck with the tripe they're pushing out, and thousands of pounds of repair bills.


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

Well blow me.

I ran to the shops this morning to get some fresh popcorn and it's turned into a love-in.

You bunch of girls.

Here Ovlov, did you know a 1 series bimmer will thrash a C30.

335d, Ovlov says your bimmer's rubbish.

:spam::lol::lol:


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

Gruffs said:


> Well blow me.
> 
> I ran to the shops this morning to get some fresh popcorn and it's turned into a love-in.
> 
> ...


Rofl...:lol::lol::lol::lol:
I'm off to find a tree to hug..
(so long as it's a proper british tree, not one of the crap imports:devil


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

Smells like soggy Labrador in here too...........................

:devil::devil::devil:


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Plenty of trees and a damp labrador here too - where shall I start?


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

Dog Heaven..


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