# Swissvax



## ShinyBoy (Nov 12, 2012)

Hello

I've been looking at trying out another wax. I drifted away from them for a while and went to sealants, well one as it impressed me so much, FK1000P.

I would like to know your guys thoughts on some of the Swissvax blends. I have been thinking onyx or mirage. Just want to here some opinions on wether there worth their money or is there something I'm missing ?

Thanks guys

Josh


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## Terryd367 (Mar 14, 2012)

I decided to bite the bullet and get swissvax shield a couple of months back after reading about its durability and how well it repels dirt.
I decided to try it on my girlfriends white golf and see how it held up to the abuse that she puts the car through. The car usually covers about 500 miles a week and always looks dirty within a couple of days of washing it. 
I put 2 coats on the golf, it was very easy to apply and i found that i could put a layer on the whole car before buffing it of with ease. 
The wax gave the paintwork a rich wet look and good beading, although the finish on my zs from dodo juice seemed wetter in apperence.
I've been most impressed with shields ability to keep the car clean, the dirt will not stick to the paint work and in the rain it sheets like crazy. 

Not impressed with the swissvax aplicator or polish colths, they seem exactly the same as ones 1/10th the price.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Hmmm... out of the Swissvax waxes I have tried, I would say they smell absolutely brilliant and are easy to apply and remove (though can gas terribly if you over apply, so be aware of that). 

However, their arch rivals Zymol have waxes that for me are in a different league to the Swissvax that I used - Concours and Glasur beading tighter and lasting longer consistently that the Best of Show and Mystery that I have from Swissvax.

Onyx was a wax I had, very nice wax to use, but durability for me was not great at all, water behaviour dropping off pretty quickly compared to similarly priced competition - you'd be better off with Nattys wax than Onyx if I am honest (in my humble opinion of course!).

Saphir - again lovely to apply and durability was better if not what one may call earth shattering, water behaviour was decent and being very oil heavy, it added perhaps a subtle wettness to the finish but you could get a better effect by using an oil heavy glaze such as Red Moose or #7.

Best of Show - my favourite of the Swissvax waxes, durability decent, water behaviour nice and the oily nature perhaps giving a subtle wettness over good machine prep, and on finishes where the prep was not spot on, BoS was very good at adding a darkening effect from its oils. 

Mystery - biggest disappointment in hindsight... on application it had tighter beading than BoS and durability seemed better but it was more difficult to apply (but not exactly difficult), and didn't by any stretch of the imagination justify its price tag. One of the most disappointing waxes I've ever bought if I am honest because it was the most expensive, but did absolutely nothing to justify it and this sort of put me off Swissvax along with their price hikes of not too long ago.

In summary, of the ones (older school) I tried, they are decent waxes but shop around as there are others that in my eyes better warrant your money. Personal opinion, of course.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Crystal Rock is a great up sell.


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## Norman (Sep 5, 2006)

I tried Blue Velvet and supernatural on the 911, before trying Zuffenhausen on it and I have to say that it does outperform them both significantly in terms of durability and water repellancy.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Seems you're either a Swissvax guy or a Zymol guy. Just so happens I'm a Swissvax guy! 

Onyx is a nice oily wax, very rich, dark, deep and wet looking. Not blingy reflective or glassy. 

The Mirage is extremely similar in looks, but i feel its got more of a glow. Durability is better, but I think the Onyx gives a bit wetter look. 

Both of these along with Concorso are my favorites. All smell like passionfruit, and you just want to eat it straight out of the pot!  

These are best described as show waxes, and certainly up there with the best. These certainly make you feel special when using them, something you'll only understand when you try!  

What did you want to achieve by using a wax exactly?


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## stonejedi (Feb 2, 2008)

I got some onyx about five years ago a nice wax to use agree with above brings a wetness to the paint but I would not buy it again since the price hike which I feel can not be justified.where are they going for there ingredients?outer space.


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## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

Get Swissvax Shield instead of the two entry level waxes. Durability is far better than e.g. Best of Show, looks not far from it. And it's just about as easy to work with. 

I would buy Shield again, no hesitation. 


Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## TopSport+ (Jul 22, 2012)

Ebbe J said:


> Get Swissvax Shield instead of the two entry level waxes. Durability is far better than e.g. Best of Show, looks not far from it. And it's just about as easy to work with.
> 
> I would buy Shield again, no hesitation.
> 
> ...


+1 the same and I will buy another one:thumb:


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## Brigham1806 (Apr 1, 2011)

-Raven- said:


> Seems you're either a Swissvax guy or a Zymol guy. Just so happens I'm a Swissvax guy!
> 
> Onyx is a nice oily wax, very rich, dark, deep and wet looking. Not blingy reflective or glassy.
> 
> ...


I was really after adding more gloss to the paint, giving it something special. I always get comments on how it looks.. But it's just not 100% for me...

Like I said I have the dodo juice diamond white n to be honest this is a fantastic wax.


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## Brigham1806 (Apr 1, 2011)

Brigham1806 said:


> I was really after adding more gloss to the paint, giving it something special. I always get comments on how it looks.. But it's just not 100% for me...
> 
> Like I said I have the dodo juice diamond white n to be honest this is a fantastic wax.


Sorry post hijack... Not my post apologies.. I'm in the same boat.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

I have BOS and Onyx, and have tried Zymol too and if i was forced to choose between the 2 it would be SwissVax (ignoring my recent loss of love for the SV range).

Zymol was old skool and no where near as satisfying to use as SV.

As for durability....this always makes me chuckle when I hear people on here banging on about it. We are all car cleaning freaks so what the hell does it matter none of us are going to be waiting 3 months before we apply another coat of wax.

That aside I did do back to back tests with Onyx and BOS on my daily driver which got weekly washes with a hot industrial grade pressure washer....Onyx lasted a good 3-4 months and BOS 6-7 Paint as fully cleansed and prepared with SV Cleaner fluid then a coat applied left for 20 mins removed 30 mins passes then a 2nd coat applied and again left for 20 mins before buffing.

Looks wise Onyx deffo gives a wetter shine the Mrs who isnt into all this cleaning and detailing lark even commented that the car looked all wet and shiny like a wet boiled sweet were her exact words. BOS gives a lovely shine not quite as wet but a deep gloss, any of you that saw my 205 at WaxStock well that was wearing multiple layers of BOS.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Brigham1806 said:


> I was really after adding more gloss to the paint, giving it something special. I always get comments on how it looks.. But it's just not 100% for me...
> 
> Like I said I have the dodo juice diamond white n to be honest this is a fantastic wax.


Yep, you're heading down the right path!


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## ShinyBoy (Nov 12, 2012)

Brigham1806 said:


> I was really after adding more gloss to the paint, giving it something special. I always get comments on how it looks.. But it's just not 100% for me...
> 
> Like I said I have the dodo juice diamond white n to be honest this is a fantastic wax.


Hey no problem. I pretty much after the same thing tbh. Plus the fact that I love caressing the curves of my girl !


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## ShinyBoy (Nov 12, 2012)

Thanks for all the helps lads. So would you say Zymols wax technology is a little old now. Hence why people like the SV stuff?


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## stonejedi (Feb 2, 2008)

All I can is SV waxs are good but zymol glasur was and is still my fav wax for sheeting water behaviour and looks.if you have not tried it give it a go.SV waxs lost it for me when there pricing structure changed.same product but more expensive,go figure.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

nick_mcuk said:


> As for durability....this always makes me chuckle when I hear people on here banging on about it. We are all car cleaning freaks so what the hell does it matter none of us are going to be waiting 3 months before we apply another coat of wax..


Some of us car cleaning freaks who still like to keep a clean car have no choice in the matter due to work commitments but to leave a wax for three months or more... non-ideal, but I certainly don't have the time I used to have to tinker around with my cars waxing them, but I still want the paint protected. To that end, durability is very important to me.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Brigham1806 said:


> I was really after adding more gloss to the paint, giving it something special. I always get comments on how it looks.. But it's just not 100% for me...
> 
> Like I said I have the dodo juice diamond white n to be honest this is a fantastic wax.


At what level is your prep? Refined to the n-th degree with the best finishing polishes (85RE, Megs 205 etc etc) .. as this is where the true enhancement in clarity, gloss and looks will come from. If you're chasing the n'th degree, I'd far sooner focus on paint refining with finishing polishes than on waxes claiming to be the deepest and wettest yet


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## rtjc (Apr 19, 2009)

Got to love Daves honest, no BS reviews & advice :thumb:


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## Miha (May 4, 2012)

On my blog, you can find a test of Mirage:

www.gerpp.com


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

Dave KG said:


> At what level is your prep? Refined to the n-th degree with the best finishing polishes (85RE, Megs 205 etc etc) .. as this is where the true enhancement in clarity, gloss and looks will come from. If you're chasing the n'th degree, I'd far sooner focus on paint refining with finishing polishes than on waxes claiming to be the deepest and wettest yet


If you want clarity, that's certainly true. But there's more to looks than just clarity.

I personally don't really like it, when paint is polished to perfection, reflecting like a true mirror.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Ewald said:


> If you want clarity, that's certainly true. But there's more to looks than just clarity.
> 
> I personally don't really like it, when paint is polished to perfection, reflecting like a true mirror.


In which case, turn your attention to glazes 

I still await conclusive proof of waxes and other LSPs delivering the big changes in looks they and many others seem to claim  However, many do like subtle nuances and believe they can see them, so perhaps it is just a case of each to their own. :thumb:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Dave KG said:


> In which case, turn your attention to glazes
> 
> I still await conclusive proof of waxes and other LSPs delivering the big changes in looks they and many others seem to claim  However, many do like subtle nuances and believe they can see them, so perhaps it is just a case of each to their own. :thumb:


So are you saying all LSPs look the same?


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

Indeed, to each their own.

But I don't think anyone ever claimed "big" changes in looks, through different LSP's.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

-Raven- said:


> So are you saying all LSPs look the same?


I am saying I don't see the tenable differences from them that many seem to claim (or are perhaps seeing as a placebo).

Can you show, over a full vehicle in the same lighting conditions, differences in LSPs that we could see beyond doubt (with excpetion perhaps of the dying effect of colour charging - I mean these warm tones, glossyness addition (define?!), blingy shine...)


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

Well Dave, only you yourself can investigate whether such differences exist. It's not something to be proven, it's something that you see (or not).

A suggestion:
Blackfire has two lines of products that they claim produce different looks: the Wet Diamond, and the Midnight Sun line. What if you try each on either side of your car, of course with a uniform preparation.

From Blackfire's new product line, you could, for instance, use the Blackfire Midnight Sun Instant Detailer and the Blackfire Wet Diamond Polymer Spray. Both spray products, not too expensive.

Of course, no other detailer spray over these, no gloss shampoo, as these will alter the looks.

And see for yourself. The manufacturer claims there's a difference in looks, and I'm pretty sure I'd see which side of the car is done with which product line (at least on my own car).


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

Dave KG said:


> I am saying I don't see the tenable differences from them that many seem to claim (or are perhaps seeing as a placebo).
> 
> Can you show, over a full vehicle in the same lighting conditions, differences in LSPs that we could see beyond doubt (with excpetion perhaps of the dying effect of colour charging - I mean these warm tones, glossyness addition (define?!), blingy shine...)


Of course theres a different looking waxes..
by saying what you say you just canceled a BIG part of detailing.
i cant understand how can you say that..


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## ShinyBoy (Nov 12, 2012)

Thanks guys. As ever a fantastic response! I think Zymol will be the brand I go for tbh guys. I'll let you know how I go on !


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## retroruss (Apr 24, 2010)

Dave KG said:


> I am saying I don't see the tenable differences from them that many seem to claim (or are perhaps seeing as a placebo).
> 
> Can you show, over a full vehicle in the same lighting conditions, differences in LSPs that we could see beyond doubt (with excpetion perhaps of the dying effect of colour charging - I mean these warm tones, glossyness addition (define?!), blingy shine...)


not a full vehicle but here we have 2 different lsps side by side can you see any difference?


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Dave KG said:


> Some of us car cleaning freaks who still like to keep a clean car have no choice in the matter due to work commitments but to leave a wax for three months or more... non-ideal, but I certainly don't have the time I used to have to tinker around with my cars waxing them, but I still want the paint protected. To that end, durability is very important to me.


LOL clearly not trying hard enough there Dave...I am out of the UK approx 6 months of the year travelling with work and still manage to do a weekly or bi-weeky wash of the car 

No excuses LOL


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

ronwash said:


> Of course theres a different looking waxes..
> by saying what you say you just canceled a BIG part of detailing.
> i cant understand how can you say that..


Big for some, perhaps... but LSPs are not a big part of detailing for me, just a tiny part I use to protect all my efforts from the prep stage.

In fairness, in my early days of detailing I was convinced I was seeing big differences between waxes I was using, fueled along by the claims and talk of all the differences, so some of this was perhaps placebo... the more I focussed on machine finishing, the less different I ever saw a wax make until I was in my eyes seeing no difference on my finishes from different waxes being used. Perhaps the closer we take our machine finishing to perfection, the less the effects of any wax on looks. I can happily see this as the case - use a wax on a finish you've just wetsanded (but not polished) and the oils in it will darken the effect and restore a little gloss. Repeat on a machine perfected finish, and the difference is much much less obvious, to what in my perhaps very simplistic view, non existent.

But to suggest that simply thinking LSPs make little to no difference in looks cancels out a big part of detailing makes no sense to me - we all pursue different interests in this world of detailing, waxes are not one of mine, machine finishing a paint to perfection is my BIG part of detailing and this is something which nobody can deny makes a big difference in looks.

As always, a case of each to their own... I base my opinions on my own experiences in detailing, and they are not going to be the same as everyone else's... in fairness, I wish there were bigger differences between waxes as it would make LSPs that bit more fun, but I just don't really see it on my finishes I'm afraid.

However, perhaps following my junior science project where my kids are making car waxes (thought it would be something different for them  ), we will see differences, or their eyes will - who knows? Part of the fun, aint it


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

What colour is your car Dave? Silver I bet!


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

-Raven- said:


> What colour is your car Dave? Silver I bet!


The Volvo is metallic black, the Subaru metallic silver... I have worked on many colours in my time, though


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Dave KG said:


> I am saying I don't see the tenable differences from them that many seem to claim (or are perhaps seeing as a placebo).
> 
> Can you show, over a full vehicle in the same lighting conditions, differences in LSPs that we could see beyond doubt (with excpetion perhaps of the dying effect of colour charging - I mean these warm tones, glossyness addition (define?!), blingy shine...)


hard to photograph, but yes with out a doubt waxes, sealants, coatings all look different.

So you saying pinnacle Souveran looks the same as Collinite 476? Someone's finally lost their marbles!


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

-Raven- said:


> hard to photograph, but yes with out a doubt waxes, sealants, coatings all look different.
> 
> So you saying pinnacle Souveran looks the same as Collinite 476? Someone's finally lost their marbles!


I wouldn't suggest I was losing my marbles  but then I am not one to slate people with such remarks. I state what I seem based on my experiences of products, nothing more, nothing less... If you see the big differences, that's good for you


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Dave KG said:


> I wouldn't suggest I was losing my marbles  but then I am not one to slate people with such remarks. I state what I seem based on my experiences of products, nothing more, nothing less... If you see the big differences, that's good for you


You're serious aren't you? So you think C.quartz looks the same as any wax?


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

-Raven- said:


> You're serious aren't you? So you think C.quartz looks the same as any wax?


If I had used Cquartz, I would comment but as I haven't, I wont as I have no experience of it to call on.

Now, as stated above, in my detailing where I focussed on machine finishing on paint above all else and achieved what was for me the pinnacle in this way, I saw very little if any effects from applying waxes. Believe me, I tried to see the difference, I wanted to see them - but I do not see differences I can call tenable. Many others claim to see them, so perhaps they do exist, but as I don't see anything in my eyes that warrants comment, the differences for me are not tenable.

That you see a difference does not mean that everyone sees a difference. That I don't see the differences does not mean that there are none to see. It means we see things differently as as such focus our interests to different areas of detailing. If you see big differences, by all means spend loads on different waxes and enjoy the differences you see (but do try to refrain for suggesting other have lost their marbles for not seeing these "differences)... I have spent loads on waxes in the past, and I've come to the conclusion I don't need lots of different waxes and sealants for lots of different looks so when I have exhausted my wax supply (in about 50 years time) I will have just the one I like to use in my collection.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Dave KG said:


> If I had used Cquartz, I would comment but as I haven't, I wont as I have no experience of it to call on.
> 
> Now, as stated above, in my detailing where I focussed on machine finishing on paint above all else and achieved what was for me the pinnacle in this way, I saw very little if any effects from applying waxes. Believe me, I tried to see the difference, I wanted to see them - but I do not see differences I can call tenable. Many others claim to see them, so perhaps they do exist, but as I don't see anything in my eyes that warrants comment, the differences for me are not tenable.
> 
> That you see a difference does not mean that everyone sees a difference. That I don't see the differences does not mean that there are none to see. It means we see things differently as as such focus our interests to different areas of detailing. If you see big differences, by all means spend loads on different waxes and enjoy the differences you see (but do try to refrain for suggesting other have lost their marbles for not seeing these "differences)... I have spent loads on waxes in the past, and I've come to the conclusion I don't need lots of different waxes and sealants for lots of different looks so when I have exhausted my wax supply (in about 50 years time) I will have just the one I like to use in my collection.


fair enough. I'd love to be happy to have one big bottle of sealant in my collection. But until they make a sealant that looks like Pinnacle Souveran or Vics Red, I'll just have to wait! 

I'm certainly not saying the more you spend, the better it is.... My favorite wax costs £20 for 3oz! (it's not Swissvax!) :thumb:

And yes, I also have quite a large finishing polish collection!


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Dave KG said:


> I am saying I don't see the tenable differences from them that many seem to claim (or are perhaps seeing as a placebo).
> 
> Can you show, over a full vehicle in the same lighting conditions, differences in LSPs that we could see beyond doubt (with excpetion perhaps of the dying effect of colour charging - I mean these warm tones, glossyness addition (define?!), blingy shine...)


From the Amigo or Red Moose thread today
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=3876020#post3876020



Dave KG said:


> I have used both, and really like both - so either choice will serve you very well.
> 
> Me personally, I would go for Red Moose as I find it a little oilier and can add a little more wettness to a finish.


so you can tell the difference between an oil and polymer glaze, but oil and polymer LSP's look the same?


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

-Raven- said:


> From the Amigo or Red Moose thread today
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=3876020#post3876020
> 
> so you can tell the difference between an oil and polymer glaze, but oil and polymer LSP's look the same?


You've obviously got doubts otherwise you wouldn't be bothered about other peoples opinions


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

-Raven- said:


> so you can tell the difference between an oil and polymer glaze, but oil and polymer LSP's look the same?


The sensible conclusion from this, that takes very little thought to come to, is my use of glazes in the prep stage when I use them negates the effect a following LSP can have... in fact (as you are enjoying looking through my posts, which is flattering  ), if you look deeper you'll find that I comment on the use of glazes in preference to LSPs to get that little enhancement to looks as I find they have the effect that waxes did not have for me.

You'll also notice that in comments referring to where the prep is not spot on, glazes and waxes are known to have greater effect - the oils for one in the product being able to mask inperfections in the paint (temporarily) to enhance the look.

Now we could go round and round in circles for the next few weeks which appears to be what you would like to do, but I feel I have suitably made my points. I don't see differences in my eyes between waxes following my prep work on paint, so I am not about to jump up and down and claim that I do based on what others claim. I'm glad you can see a difference, it will justify for you having many different LSPs  And this will make LSPs much more exciting for others than it does for me... I will, however, spend the little detailing time I have these days on polishing techniques and products.

Happy detailing, I'm off to play in the snow :wave:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Dj.X-Ray said:


> You've obviously got doubts otherwise you wouldn't be bothered about other peoples opinions


Nope, im still in shock actually. :thumb:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Thats ok Dave. 

If an Oily wax looks the same as a polymer sealant to you, but an oily glaze looks different to a polymer glaze to you, I still don't and will never agree. But we will just have to agree to disagree. :thumb:


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

Dave KG said:


> You'll also notice that in comments referring to where the prep is not spot on, glazes and waxes are known to have greater effect - the oils for one in the product being able to mask inperfections in the paint (temporarily) to enhance the look.


As said before, you're obviously for looks only interested in clarity, and the perfectly smooth surface produced by machine polishing or glazes. That's fine with me. To each their own. I'm more interested in the character of the shine, which is something else.

As a technical question, I wonder how oils could smooth a surface. My experience with my own home made waxes, is that oils mix thoroughly with carnauba, beeswax, and such, and thus _do not_ smooth surfaces, as glazes do.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

I went sealant mad earlier this year, at one point all my car had on was Ceramishield, topped at a later date with AF's powerseal, don't get me wrong the car looked great, but as soon as i applied wax over the top the finish was totally transformed again. I like sealants but waxes are/will be staying a firm favorite for me for the forseeable future
With regards to different waxes leaving different finishes, the differences are often very minimal but as raven said on a dark coloured car you couldn't fail to notice a difference between say 476's and Soveran, the products really are like chalk and cheese with regards to what they leave looks wise


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## buff not enuf (Sep 29, 2008)

Listen to dave he s ur man


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

buff not enuf said:


> Listen to dave he s ur man


:tumbleweed::tumbleweed::tumbleweed:


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