# PH Detailer post



## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

A tricky one for DW, don't you think! On one hand, there's another side to the story, but on the other, there's the reputation of every london guy on here unless they come outright and deny it one by one.


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

Am too busy having a spin in a 911 to care tbh


edit: sorry that wasn't very helpful!


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## Finerdetails (Apr 30, 2006)

its another witch hunt, like all previous ones.....

I could said I feel sorry for the one to blame, but not sure if I do.

This is why, I always ensures the customer knows exactly any movements I have to make with all cars, and never have stuff like that in my care.

bad situation, only going to turn out one way this one.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Assuming the chap who posted on PH isn't simply skint and looking for someone else to pay for the repairs he's inflicted on his own car? 

Sorry, not trying to be overly cynical but I know several of the "S/E Detailers" on here well enough to be highly suspicious of this whole thing. I genuinely don't believe that any of them would do something this daft - professional suicide to put it mildly!


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

oooh any one got a link ?


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## Paul-T (Nov 2, 2006)

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassin...mt=Horror Story with Detailer - WARNING&mid=0

You've got more faith than me Andy.


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

I tend to look at everything with a skeptical eye, and sadly there are people like that. Claiming something and then taking steps to out it online is a big jump though, and it seems more likely that they would keep it quiet if they were trying it on. Nowt as queer as folk though!


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

well that makes things a [email protected] for people like me who only do in house now. 

i recon this could go two ways, maybe another attempt to wreck old PD name by that guy who came on here ? or maybe its a legit thing who knows, all i know is its nothing to do with me


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

anyone remember that last one on here.... the "a detailer was horrible to me thread"?

does make you wonder sometimes....


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

james b said:


> well that makes things a [email protected] for people like me who only do in house now.


thats the problem isn't it? the person that *allegedly* fugged his car up isn't named, but everyone down there is now under suspicion.

apart from Rob :lol:

edit.... and Paul


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## drive 'n' shine (Apr 22, 2006)

Wonderdetail said:


> A tricky one for DW, don't you think! On one hand, there's another side to the story, but on the other, there's the reputation of every london guy on here unless they come outright and deny it one by one.


No just those with units in the south east which kind of narrows it down!

Its not me btw, I can't reach the pedals :lol:


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

After having 2 blue Porka's on the trot it made me slightly paranoid.:lol:

Felt the need to say something when he said about only having your car detailed at the owners premises.


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## Paul-T (Nov 2, 2006)

A ten year old boy was seen today thrashing a blue Porka in the Godstone area.....

Don't worry Bry, we know you'd have only taken it to the pub and back.


In all seriousiness, I kinda hope this does turn out to be a wind up. Otherwise, someone is a proper ****.


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

i might just pm him the names of everyone on here as he'll confirm who it isn't, but wont say who it is until court proceedings are undertaken 

what's the odds on it never seeing the light of day again?


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Shine On said:


> http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassin...mt=Horror Story with Detailer - WARNING&mid=0
> 
> You've got more faith than me Andy.


Not really mate - if it does turn out to be legit then I'll be suggesting in my subtlest manner possible that any responsible party gets their ar5e slung out of DW for keeps.

BTW got your message mate - I'm in tonight & tomorrow if that's any use? Could hook up Thursday evening Chievely M4/A34 if that's any better? :wave:


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## drive 'n' shine (Apr 22, 2006)

> Probably the same 'detailer' that sat on my driveway using his mobile for 4 hours then said it was a 2 day job to detail my car.


That made me laugh :lol:


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Actually - thinking of this from the other side of the fence. 

Technically, there was a taking of conveyance, as the owner had not given permission for the detailer to drive the car, but, the CPS will very likely take the view that unauthorised use is not classed as 'taking.' I know this as just a former law student, so a qualified solictor/barrister would certainly know it. Added to that, in all my time dealing with people in the legal profession, I never heard anyone ever refer to themselves as a lawyer. The reason for this is that in legal terms, a lawyer is simply a person with knowledge of the law, so they always addressed themselves as a solicitor or barrister. This could be different now though, as it was nearly ten years ago when I studied. 

Also, is anyone sensing deja vu? Didn't we have someone on here saying PD had damaged their car, whilst it was in his care, and it turned out it was someone trying to smear him cos he owed them money?


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## Paul-T (Nov 2, 2006)

Blimey Kavanagh QC, do you remember all the jobs from your past lives?

If someone hasn't given permission for you to drive a car, and you do, it has been Taken Without Consent (TWOC). It isn't Theft - for which you'd need to prove intent to permanantly deprive the owner of the property, but that isn't what has happened here.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Fair points WD. 

Then again, from an insurance perspective, the road risks section of a motor trade policy covers "any vehicle owned by the policyholder or in their care, custody or control in connection with their business". No mention is normally made of owner's permission as it would usually be assumed that the vehicle is in your custody with the owner's consent - driving (or not) would be deemed to form part of any contract which is a legal issue as opposed to insurance.


If the detailer were collecting & returning the car then fine, but if not and you had an accident 20 miles from your unit you'd struggle to prove that this constituted business use. Additionally, if the owner had expressly stated that the car was not to be driven (other than into/out of unit) then the police might consider your insurance to be invalid, putting you into even deeper poo.

Hopefully your comments ref the PD/windup thing will be proved correct, the person making these claims will disappear and life will go on :thumb:


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

I done some digging and that guy is propper, i quoted that very same job but lost out to some one else, (Email Match) oh dear oh dear what a ****.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Fair enough James - finding myself not wanting to know "who" it was TBH.

And we know it WASN'T;

1. Gleammachine - he hates Porsches with a passion now after the last few days
2. Bry - he can't reach the pedals and has enough old BM's floating around to keep him busy
3. Shine On - there was no mention made of paparazzi shadowing the car shouting "oi, aren't you that bloke off the telly??!!"

:lol:


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

AndyC said:


> Fair enough James - finding myself not wanting to know "who" it was TBH.
> 
> And we know it WASN'T;
> 
> ...


:lol: any used Porsches now carry a detailing premium.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

I dont know who actualy got the job i just know that i got an estimation form through from that email addy but never got the job on price, to be fair i have not detailed a porka for the last 4 months or so now and have better things to do than rag about in clients cars, all i want to do is clean em and get paid


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## drive 'n' shine (Apr 22, 2006)

I suspect we all have an idea who it is..............


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

suspense is killing me ,


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

PMV gavin hasnt moved down south has he?


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

:lol:


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Shine On said:


> Blimey Kavanagh QC, do you remember all the jobs from your past lives?
> 
> If someone hasn't given permission for you to drive a car, and you do, it has been Taken Without Consent (TWOC). It isn't Theft - for which you'd need to prove intent to permanantly deprive the owner of the property, but that isn't what has happened here.


I had a brain hemorrhage when I was 14 and was bed ridden for 6 months or so. During that time, I missed all my coursework for my exams so when I did recover, going back to school would have been pointless, so I started working for my dad, then moved on to work for friends of the family, then went to college and studied English and Law. I haven't had that many jobs, just a few, in completely different sectors, and I started early. I hope that explains it for you Paul, as you keep bringing this up as if what I state is fantasy? I can assure you, it's not.

The reference I found from one of my texbooks was the case of McKnight and Davies [1974] where the CPS ruled unauthorised use was not 'taking' and therefore a case where the keys were given to the accused, and the car was subsequently used without authorisation, could not be classified as TWOC, or driving away. I've looked for a case where a conviction was ruled in these circumstances, but I can't find one.


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## Paul-T (Nov 2, 2006)

In sprirt if not in name by the sounds of it.....(aimed at the PMV comment). 

WD, sorry to hear of what sounds like a truely horrible experience. It was a light hearted comment aimed at your apparent knowledge of so many things you'd normally be expected to be 103. No offence was intended.


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## Rich @ PB (Oct 26, 2005)

Sadly not the first time I've heard of a London-based detailer with a unit taking a customers car elsewhere without permission and then mistreating it... so I'm sitting on the fence as to whether the guy is genuine or not. However, as I said in the off topic thread, I really hope if it is true that it's not someone on here who I've happily been referring work on to...

This sort of thing does make you stop and think though. We drive plenty of high end stuff to and fro our unit, and have not experienced any problems to date, due to our own ethics on customer care/respect and the decency of all of our customers to date (had one question a kerbing mark, but pictures we took showed it must have happened after he collected the car - tip: take a lot of pictures of every car, before and after!). However, what happens if one day someone crashes into us while we are driving a Lambo or a Porsche, and then passers by start taking pictures (and then posting them on the forums)? Or if we do a collection, fail to notice every little chip and then get a chancer trying it on saying the chips occured whilst in our care?

These sorts of issues would be potentially hugely damaging, but mitigating such risks is not easy. In our area, a lot of the guys with big money are too busy to drop off and collect, so we only get the work if we drive the cars. I have looked into a Race Shuttle, but factoring in the towing vehicle, we'd be £20k plus into it from the off, and even then there is the risk of an accident when loading and unloading. As for official inspections at the time of picking up a car - what if you miss something that wasn't signed off by the owner? Opening up a can of worms springs to mind...

This is something I'm going to be giving a lot more thought to in the coming months, as we've got our first £150k plus car coming on to contract, and we are going to have to drive it occasionally (expect a call soon Andy!)... who says this detailing lark is hassle free eh?!


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## Paul-T (Nov 2, 2006)

For exactly those reasons Rich, while I've had the proper insurance to drive customers cars for a little while, I avoid doing so wherever possible.


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## drive 'n' shine (Apr 22, 2006)

Shine On said:


> I avoid doing so wherever possible.


Same here, whilst we might all be covered to drive customers cars, I would rather not, yes they might be covered but I would still hate to make the "Hello Mr Smith, there's a slight problem with the car................." call having to explain how their P&J is now in need of a bit more than detailer


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## Rich @ PB (Oct 26, 2005)

Shine On said:


> For exactly those reasons Rich, while I've had the proper insurance to drive customers cars for a little while, I avoid doing so wherever possible.


I know, we do too, but as I said, we are finding that the best customers in terms of contract size and profitability require the 'service' aspect in addition to the detailing work too. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't springs to mind...


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

I'm insured too like Paul but tend to go out of my way to avoid driving exotics, well and any customers cars unless it cant be avoided.
Just had a yellow Carrera dropped off so feeling as nervous as Rob (GM) myself now, despite having nothing to feel nervous about!


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

pitfalls i suppose of the high end stuff, as sometimes the guys with the money are complete sr5eholes and just looking for confrontation, or to knock someones business as its just a game for them .
hope it is all bull5hit


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

Envy Valeting said:


> I'm insured too like Paul but tend to go out of my way to avoid driving exotics, well and any customers cars unless it cant be avoided.
> Just had a yellow Carrera dropped off so feeling as nervous as Rob (GM) myself now, despite having nothing to feel nervous about!


pussy


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

ECLIPSE AUTO VALET said:


> pussy


kin hell. just nearly choked on my chicken fajita.:lol:


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Shine On said:


> In sprirt if not in name by the sounds of it.....(aimed at the PMV comment).
> 
> WD, sorry to hear of what sounds like a truely horrible experience. It was a light hearted comment aimed at your apparent knowledge of so many things you'd normally be expected to be 103. No offence was intended.


To be honest mate - I didn't think it was light hearted... I did read it as a dig, But I humbly stand corrected. :thumb:

I am a geek, it's true! They reckoned I had/have Savant syndrome as a kid because despite being completely thick with some things (I'm numerically dyslexic) I soak stuff in like a sponge.


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

I'm a bit like that.... I'm in demand for pub quizzes! I Bore the sh*t out of everyone at work with inane facts too


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

panama said:


> kin hell. just nearly choked on my chicken fajita.:lol:


dry welsh sense of humour , tim knows that lol


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

Wonderdetail said:


> To be honest mate - I didn't think it was light hearted... I did read it as a dig, But I humbly stand corrected. :thumb:
> 
> I am a geek, it's true! They reckoned I had/have Savant syndrome as a kid because despite being completely thick with some things (I'm numerically dyslexic) I soak stuff in like a sponge.


hope its a Z one , we dont like sponges in here


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

I particularly hate driving automatics! I employed Chris VRs from here on one job (He details for Ferrari in Swindon) and is used to driving exotica. He popped this Jag into reverse and did a very fast 'wheelman' style reverse and punted the Jag into a parking spot I have to say with great 'aplomb' although I had to look away!


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

ECLIPSE AUTO VALET said:


> pussy


Oi Taffy p) I just fearlessly backed it onto the drive (with permission!)


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

give you a go in my supra mark , easy to drive


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## The Detail Doctor (Feb 22, 2008)

I have to admit, I always worried about moving customers cars. First time I had to move a Ferarri was:doublesho


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

I'm pushing the cars in and out of the garage now!


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## Perfection Detailing (Nov 3, 2007)

Has anyone checked the tread on PH lately the last 5 or 6 pages are just full of idiots arguing with each other, I’ve got an M3, I’ve got a GT3, I’ve got a F430 blah blah blah. 

Jesus it really is like a who’s got the biggest todger competition over....


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## Paul-T (Nov 2, 2006)

That's PH for you. The forum is like a pack of dogs, they forum a big gang around a target, but as soon as the ones at the back can't see it they just fight amongst themselves. 

Worst thing is, all the boasting about wealth is vulgar and classless. 'Most' people with properly deep pockets don't feel the need to tell everyone about it.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Four letter word rhyming with hunt sprang to mind when reading most of the original PH thread late last night. I'm sincerely glad DW has no-one like that as a member; mind you, they'd last less than 5 minutes here anyway as I doubt many would welcome idiots like that here!

As Paul rightly says, those who are genuinely wealthy rarely need to boast about it on an open forum.


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Those that go on about all the money they have usually tend to be the most skint out the lot of us from my experiences :lol:


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

There probubly all little gimps who go Mac D cruising in there chaved up corsas. 

If there that wealthy they would have better things to do than forum surfing all day, I know i would if i had loads of doe.


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## drive 'n' shine (Apr 22, 2006)

Clark said:


> Those that go on about all the money they have usually tend to be the most skint out the lot of us from my experiences :lol:


Sorry for the delayed reply, when just taking delivery of my new Bell Ranger, trouble is it clashes with the Veyron.....

That forum needs to be renamed penisheads!


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## The Detail Doctor (Feb 22, 2008)

drive 'n' shine said:


> That forum needs to be renamed penisheads!


Or WillyWavers


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Any ways, come to think about it there are only 3 or 4 detailers down S/E with a unit that use PH.............. the drama continues LOL


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

Is the plot unfolding now?


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## The Detail Doctor (Feb 22, 2008)

Nah, something smell funny, and it's not my sarnies


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

The Detail Doctor said:


> Nah, something smell funny, and it's not my sarnies


Might be my feet...


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Just read through some of the ph posts, some serious keyboard warriors and complete bell ends, unbelievable some of the comments.:doublesho


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

when all these guys seem to be leaders of industry, lawyers, bankers etc it's no wonder the country is so f**ked up!


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

And alot of willy waving by the sounds of it too :lol: Lot of  members on that site.



The Detail Doctor said:


> Nah, something smell funny, and it's not my sarnies


Nar it is legit the owner is probubly over hyping it a bit but hes genuine, i had an email from the very same person the emails match with one i recived about a detail but i lost out on price to another supporter of this very forum 

Its wrong to take a clients car for a rag no doubt but i doubt it has done any damage to the car just to the trust and relationship between business and client, the guys probubly just pi$$ed some one took his car for a blast.


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Had the same e-mail as James, definately genuine, also lost out on price and couldn't do as soon as he wanted it, was kind enough to let me know though.


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## Offyourmarks (Jan 4, 2006)

not a very bright thing to do really - I really can understand the owners reaction.

It makes me shudder to think of what could have happened if things went wrong - I mean those cars arent exactly tame, driven two and they scared me excrementless. Imagine taking a customers car out and stuffing it into a wall....

I'm doing a car belonging to a very high ranking police officer tomorrow and friday - he is dropping it at my house and i have to drive it to work - i'm cacking myself already


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Offyourmarks said:


> not a very bright thing to do really - I really can understand the owners reaction.
> 
> It makes me shudder to think of what could have happened if things went wrong - I mean those cars arent exactly tame, driven two and they scared me excrementless. Imagine taking a customers car out and stuffing it into a wall....
> 
> I'm doing a car belonging to a very high ranking police officer tomorrow and friday - he is dropping it at my house and i have to drive it to work - i'm cacking myself already


Can't he arrange you a police escort Matt? also make sure you get some pics up on the gatso's.:lol: (last comment in jest)


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## Offyourmarks (Jan 4, 2006)

Gleammachine said:


> Can't he arrange you a police escort Matt? also make sure you get some pics up on the gatso's.:lol: (last comment in jest)


i'll ask him :thumb:

Must remember to tape up the flashing lights when working the roof


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Offyourmarks said:


> not a very bright thing to do really - I really can understand the owners reaction.
> 
> It makes me shudder to think of what could have happened if things went wrong - I mean those cars arent exactly tame, driven two and they scared me excrementless. Imagine taking a customers car out and stuffing it into a wall....
> 
> I'm doing a car belonging to a very high ranking police officer tomorrow and friday - he is dropping it at my house and i have to drive it to work - i'm cacking myself already


Yer totally id go off if some one working on my astra van drove it about let alone my proka (if i had one ) i just dont see the point in driving a clients car to be honest,

On the clients side, thats what you get when you go for cheapest rather than quality


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

nah, wasn't me James.....


funnily enough, I've never done a car and though "cool, love to take that for a spin". Mind you, did a 1.4 corsa life the other day that was a bit tasty :lol:


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## Phil H (May 14, 2006)

I would never drive a clients car, no matter what car it is. I just maneuver it between wash / polish stages


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## evojkp (Jun 28, 2007)

I've also got insurance to collect and drop off and usually cack myself thinking of the consequences if it all goes wrong. Collected an Aston vantage to work on at home as the owners family stays near and he wanted to colect from me. I was like Ms Daisy along the M8, same with an S5. I get them to sign an Invoice of work stating collection and delivery between our two addresses and note the milage on the form as well. Copy to me and copy to the customer.

I dont like driving customers cars and with some I offer to run them home and collect them when it's done.

Same with having it overnight. Totally paranoid that some scrote seen me tuck it in my garage and he'll be round at 3am to collect it. 

At the end of the day it's all about respect. The customer will show you heaps of it, if you do a proper job and treat his car with the respect a paying customer expects.

Pistonheads is a joke. I remember when it was THE site for cars...how times change.


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

I'm happy enough driving customers cars but its the fear of some idiot crashing into me that worries me. Whether it's your fault or not - guaranteed there'd be pics all over the net within 10 mins if someone crashed into you whilst you were driving someones exotica!


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## The Autowerks (Mar 31, 2006)

has the company been exposed yet? it's too long to read it all and even this thread is being dragged out.

all this talk about whether to drive a customers car or not is being blown out of proportion isn't it? when driving a customers car, or anyone else's car for that matter, it's logical to drive it with respect, but don't be afraid of driving it. whilst you're in the drivers seat constantly telling yourself 'don't crash, don't crash, don't crash' the likelihood is that you'll be focusing so much on the word 'crash' that you're more likely to stuff it.

when working on prestige cars it's never a case that they are going to turn up on the doorstep, say i want to spend alot of money on my car and leave it with you to crack on. it's always a case of emails/telephone conversations and at least one viewing in the flesh to establish what needs to be done - during that whole process we build a rapport with the customer, an element of trust if you like - it's that element of trust that gives customers the confidence to leave their vehicle with us.

my rambling has nothing to do with the topic of this thread but i still wanted to voice my opinion. we are in this business because we love cars, and personally i love the fact that i'm able to drive nice cars into and out of the workshop, even if it is 20 metres here and 20 metres there - it's one of the perks.


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## Perfection Detailing (Nov 3, 2007)

The Autowerks said:


> has the company been exposed yet? it's too long to read it all and even this thread is being dragged out.
> 
> all this talk about whether to drive a customers car or not is being blown out of proportion isn't it? when driving a customers car, or anyone else's car for that matter, it's logical to drive it with respect, but don't be afraid of driving it. whilst you're in the drivers seat constantly telling yourself 'don't crash, don't crash, don't crash' the likelihood is that you'll be focusing so much on the word 'crash' that you're more likely to stuff it.
> 
> ...


I totally here what your saying Harry but the facts are that who ever it was that detailed this guys car took it out for a drive without his permission and there was NO reason for the vehicle to leave there premises at all. A part from moving it from outside the unit to the inside to complete the work. For me taking someone's car out without permission is certain suicide, I have had customers actually urging me to have a drive of some of the vehicles ive worked on over the years but even then I've driven them like miss daisy with the owner sitting along side me.

I have to say that I would be pretty annoyed if this had of a happened to me no doubt the owner is blowing it out of proportion to a certain degree but even so it was a very stupid thing to do in the first place.


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## The Autowerks (Mar 31, 2006)

Perfection Detailing said:


> I totally here what your saying Harry but the facts are that who ever it was that detailed this guys car took it out for a drive without his permission and there was NO reason for the vehicle to leave there premises at all. A part from moving it from outside the unit to the inside to complete the work. For me taking someone's car out without permission is certain suicide, I have had customers actually urging me to have a drive of some of the vehicles ive worked on over the years but even then I've driven them like miss daisy with the owner sitting along side me.
> 
> I have to say that I would be pretty annoyed if this had of a happened to me no doubt the owner is blowing it out of proportion to a certain degree but even so it was a very stupid thing to do in the first place.


i think you've misread what i wrote - i wasn't defending the way the customer's car was treated (i did say that the post had nothing to do with the original thread topic), i was responding to the posts where people have expressed fear when having to drive a customers vehicle.

but relating the point i made to the current thread, i said that the car should always be treated with respect, taking it out for it a rip without the owners consent is not a sign of respect, for the car or the owner.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

The Autowerks said:


> has the company been exposed yet? it's too long to read it all and even this thread is being dragged out.
> 
> all this talk about whether to drive a customers car or not is being blown out of proportion isn't it? when driving a customers car, or anyone else's car for that matter, it's logical to drive it with respect, but don't be afraid of driving it. whilst you're in the drivers seat constantly telling yourself 'don't crash, don't crash, don't crash' the likelihood is that you'll be focusing so much on the word 'crash' that you're more likely to stuff it.
> 
> ...


What you think it builds respect with a client to take there motor for a 20 mile spin when they leave it with you to detail ?

All this talk of emails back and forth if im honest happens more with the 20-30K car owners the guys with the really nice stuff usualy dont have time and have made there mind up before they call you, iv had guys come to me for an inspection and leave there car with me there and then for a week if not more. i still would not take the car off the farm im on, it will go out for the wash, back and forth a few times to get rust off discs then in the unit, if i drove a car about i would expect the client to hit the roof and not pay me.


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## Perfection Detailing (Nov 3, 2007)

The Autowerks said:


> i think you've misread what i wrote - i wasn't defending the way the customer's car was treated (i did say that the post had nothing to do with the original thread topic), i was responding to the posts where people have expressed fear when having to drive a customers vehicle.
> 
> but relating the point i made to the current thread, i said that the car should always be treated with respect, taking it out for it a rip without the owners consent is not a sign of respect, for the car or the owner.


Fair enough I wasnt having a dig chap but what you said never came across that way...


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## The Autowerks (Mar 31, 2006)

james b said:


> What you think it builds respect with a client to take there motor for a 20 mile spin when they leave it with you to detail ?


no....and that was exactly my point!

where in my post did i condone how the guy treated the car or client?

in case you missed it:



The Autowerks said:


> my rambling has nothing to do with the topic of this thread...


i'll say it again...i was referring to the point people made about being worried about driving customer's vehicles for collection/dropoffs.


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## Offyourmarks (Jan 4, 2006)

The Autowerks said:


> has the company been exposed yet? it's too long to read it all and even this thread is being dragged out.
> 
> all this talk about whether to drive a customers car or not is being blown out of proportion isn't it? when driving a customers car, or anyone else's car for that matter, it's logical to drive it with respect, but don't be afraid of driving it. whilst you're in the drivers seat constantly telling yourself 'don't crash, don't crash, don't crash' the likelihood is that you'll be focusing so much on the word 'crash' that you're more likely to stuff it.
> 
> ...


so, imagine you are driving, nice and relaxed - being obsevant etc, then all of a sudden some idiot ploughs in the side of the customers car.

I appreciate the point(s) you make and the benefits of being confident and relaxed when driving a customers car - however you cannot account for others. By taking a customers car on the road, with or without permission you dramatically increase the chances of damage - and that makes me nervous. I have spent a lot of time building up a good reputation and if i can avoid risk factors that may damage that then i will  no matter how good the customer relationship you have, no matter how much they trust you, no matter if they are cool with you taking it for a blast - if you return with damaged car you will lose money, custom, reputation and trust. I always have and always will feel uncomfortable driving any car that does not belong to myself. :thumb:


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## The Autowerks (Mar 31, 2006)

Offyourmarks said:


> so, imagine you are driving, nice and relaxed - being obsevant etc, then all of a sudden some idiot ploughs in the side of the customers car.
> 
> I appreciate the point(s) you make and the benefits of being confident and relaxed when driving a customers car - however you cannot account for others. By taking a customers car on the road, with or without permission you dramatically increase the chances of damage - and that makes me nervous. I have spent a lot of time building up a good reputation and if i can avoid risk factors that may damage that then i will  no matter how good the customer relationship you have, no matter how much they trust you, no matter if they are cool with you taking it for a blast - if you return with damaged car you will lose money, custom, reputation and trust. I always have and always will feel uncomfortable driving any car that does not belong to myself. :thumb:


couldn't agree more...you can't control other people's driving - but do customers not understand this?

if they are willing for you to come and collect their vehicle then surely they are aware of the risks involved when driving a vehicle on public roads. 

don't get me wrong...i'd hate to have to call a customer to inform them that someone crashed into their car whilst it was on its way to the unit.


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

people tend to be really cool about stuff until it happens......


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

On a lighthearted note, I had to drive this beauty today, only out of the rather small garage I hasten to add.



















Not familiar with modern Astons, started it up no problem, located the auto buttons on the centre part of the dash, went to move the handbrake and it's all floppy with no resistance.
Sat there for a further 10 mins trying to find some secret button to get the brakes of, thinking maybe it just needs to be warm before it will release, nope.

Finally manage to find the handbook, talk about over complicate, hold foot on brake, lift h/brake lever until you feel resistance at the top, depress button and handbrake releases, blooming hell if it wasn't for the manual then I'd still be there now.:lol:

Even more fun getting it out with an inch or 2 even side of the rear wings, mirrors had to be folded up to clear, then getting it over the floor lip with wet tyres, had no issues before with his 996 turbo and I thout that was wide at the back.:lol:
No way this baby was going anywhere but out in a straight line.


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## Rich @ PB (Oct 26, 2005)

Lol, been there and had to hunt for the manual too! :lol:


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

WX51 TXR said:


> Lol, been there and had to hunt for the manual too! :lol:


Was starting to think the h/brake lever was just for show and there was a release button somewhere like on Jag's.:lol:


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

nearly as bad as moving a Prius for the first time :lol:


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

To add to Rob's light note, I got to drive this today, and it took me ten minutes to find the immobiliser key slot! Thankfully I know how to open the doors from the inside. The owners wife even came out and said 'you would have won £20 on top gear for knowing that!' Love starting these things up. The mirrors vibrate like mad and you feel like the thing is ready to explode.


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

I've just had a trouser accident.......

Looks lovely Paul


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

In The Detail said:


> I've just had a trouser accident.......
> 
> Looks lovely Iain


That would be Paul, Dave.:lol:


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

Thats what I said.












Doh!




It's all these freaking names with freaking "detail" in the name. it gets confusing. get some origionality ffs.





















Doh!


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

That's alright Chris, don't worry about it.


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

thanks. I feel much better now Susan.


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

I think things have just taken a turn for the worst for this detailer.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=109671


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Thread deleted as it'll only rake over old ground.


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

Doh, missed the excitement!


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

What's happened?


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## The Detail Doctor (Feb 22, 2008)

Bugger, missed out too, anybody care to PM me what happened, to keep it from the public forum?


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Not much mate - owner's now said he's going to the national press and the thread looked like being resurrected which inevitably means endless speculation and rubbish being spouted in OT (now there's a surprise )


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Why would the national press care? Unless it's PD.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Can't comment on that Paul but this will only end up at 30 pages of drivel from rmorgan & co and it's a Friday and the sun's just started shining so all good :wave:

My own view on the whole mess is that it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. The detailer shouldn't have driven the car 25 metres, let alone miles unless delivering/collecting etc, the owner doesn't sound 100% either although the PH posts descended into the usual mindless willy waving (only half the story seems to have come out leaving me wondering whether he's simply a skint 996 owner who didn't want to pay).

See - endless speculation?? :lol:


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Lol - speculation has it's place, but it can get out of hand! 

Funnily enough, (oh my word, I am doing it now!) there's some pics of a Porka recently uploaded to a detailers photobucket account that I know of, who is in the south. Sure it's not him though!


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Whether the owner is over exaggerating certain facts or not, if the detailer in question took that car for a spin he should be hammered for it, even more so if they're a member on here.

In my opinion of course!


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

AndyC said:


> Can't comment on that Paul but this will only end up at 30 pages of drivel from rmorgan & co and it's a Friday and the sun's just started shining so all good :wave:
> 
> My own view on the whole mess is that it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. The detailer shouldn't have driven the car 25 metres, let alone miles unless delivering/collecting etc, the owner doesn't sound 100% either although the PH posts descended into the usual mindless willy waving (only half the story seems to have come out leaving me wondering whether he's simply a skint 996 owner who didn't want to pay).
> 
> See - endless speculation?? :lol:


In the detailers defence from the emails i got from the owner when looking to have the car done he came across as a [email protected], pleading poverty "saying after buying the car im a bit skint maybe il use you if i win the lotery" nob end, and asking for a "credit crunch special" i dont actually feel to sorry for someone who can buy a 996 in times like these so i wernt about to do him many favors.

Still dont mean its ok to cruise about in a clients car, im surprised the detailer in question aint topped up in here and just set it all straight yet, it looks worse and worse the longer they leave it  its done now, best thing you can do is hold your hands up and say "i [email protected] up" IMO


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## The Detail Doctor (Feb 22, 2008)

mmm, sounds like a case of "you say you are skint, the badge on your bonnet says otherwise"


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## Paul-T (Nov 2, 2006)

Badge, budget, pocket etc are irrelevant. Taking the **** and using motors left in your care, for whatever BS reason is entriely and exclusively relevant.


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## hotwaxxx (Jul 12, 2007)

The bloke is not going to take this to national press??? What he receives from them should cover the cost of expenses (if he gets his story covered - which I doubt).

I do agree - the detailer has done wrong but the guy who owns the Porka also sounds like a regular Pistonheader (read : idiot) to me. He seems to be almost attention-seeking now and is losing credibility.


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

Guys I am not really sure what benefits this thread has other than a witch hunt which isn't of much benefit!

Its painfully obvious who the detailer is imo but until it starts to affectt DW can we let said detailer deal with said customer and keep it their business.


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## The Detail Doctor (Feb 22, 2008)

Brazo said:


> Its painfully obvious who the detailer is imo


Not to me it's not!!!!


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

lol. or me. we must be slow on the uptake Mark.


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## drive 'n' shine (Apr 22, 2006)

Brazo said:


> Guys I am not really sure what benefits this thread has other than a witch hunt which isn't of much benefit!
> 
> Its painfully obvious who the detailer is imo but until it starts to affectt DW can we let said detailer deal with said customer and keep it their business.


Probably not going to make me popular, but I am speaking purely from a business perspective not a personal one

Whilst some of us may be or may not be aware of who it is, while the said detailer remains un-named those of us in the same area i.e. in the SE and in units, are being put under scrutiny by existing and potential clients, which is having an effect on my business!


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## The Detail Doctor (Feb 22, 2008)

drive 'n' shine said:


> ........those of us in the same area i.e. in the SE and in units, are being put under scrutiny by existing and potential clients, which is having an effect on my business!


Really not good to hear that, hopefully the whole issue will be sorted sooner rather than later.


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

panama said:


> lol. or me. we must be slow on the uptake Mark.


Phew, I thought it was just me!


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

drive 'n' shine said:


> Probably not going to make me popular, but I am speaking purely from a business perspective not a personal one
> 
> Whilst some of us may be or may not be aware of who it is, while the said detailer remains un-named those of us in the same area i.e. in the SE and in units, are being put under scrutiny by existing and potential clients, which is having an effect on my business!


totally agree - but it's got to be said if it hadn't have been posted on the main site, it probably wouldn't have got much further than the porsche part of pistonheads - it didn't make it onto their main site as far as I'm aware. or any other non-porka sites?

maybe it should have gone in here first.....


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Chaps im not sure he can talk / write with regards to legal reasons.

Any Threads on the main forum will be taken down for now - as it has nothing directly to do with DW, Im not totally happy with the situation but it does come across as half a dozen of one and six of the other ....

Its between said detailer and said customer ....


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

panama said:


> lol. or me. we must be slow on the uptake Mark.


Some says he uses his ear wax for clay.

Some say he cries Z7.....

We just know him as


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## The Detail Doctor (Feb 22, 2008)

In The Detail said:


> Some says he uses his ear wax for clay.
> 
> Some say he cries Z7.....
> 
> We just know him as


The Twig???


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## hotwaxxx (Jul 12, 2007)

The Detail Doctor said:


> The Twig???


:lol::lol::lol:


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

Bry I truly sympathise but for legal reasons I would very much recommend that the issue remains private between the customer and the detailer.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Shine On said:


> Badge, budget, pocket etc are irrelevant. Taking the **** and using motors left in your care, for whatever BS reason is entriely and exclusively relevant.


Totaly agree if its a metro or a zonda its not your property and it should be respected full stop.



drive 'n' shine said:


> Probably not going to make me popular, but I am speaking purely from a business perspective not a personal one
> 
> Whilst some of us may be or may not be aware of who it is, while the said detailer remains un-named those of us in the same area i.e. in the SE and in units, are being put under scrutiny by existing and potential clients, which is having an effect on my business!





WHIZZER said:


> Chaps im not sure he can talk / write with regards to legal reasons.
> 
> Any Threads on the main forum will be taken down for now - as it has nothing directly to do with DW, Im not totally happy with the situation but it does come across as half a dozen of one and six of the other ....
> 
> Its between said detailer and said customer ....


Exactly as Bry says, the guy tops up saying dopnt leave your car with any detailer in SE with a unit, well that narrows it down to 3 of us and puts me and bry in the firing line same as said detailer, do you think thats fair? none of you mods set it straight it wernt us so we have to do it for our selfs (when we have done nothing wrong) but you will help cover it up for the person who actualy [email protected] up and took the pi$$ with a clients motor 

I have been asked by 2 clients now if it was us, and whilst i can prove it wernt i should not even be in the picture full stop.

This is what im talking about when every jumps on a good thing, a name get ruined and an industry suffers, "detailing" is ment to be the ultimate luxury treatment for a vehicle but this sort of behaviour if becomes a regular thing will harm the industry, (same as what happened to valeting back in the day)


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

To be fair though James, its not as if it's a part timer/newbie that's just got into it, is it? 

I do feel for the rest of you though, it's all people need at the moment.....


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

^^ thats exactly what makes it even worse, cowboys wreck decent names fast, im gona start calling my self another posh word like visual enhancement specialist. LOL


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

and charge twice as much as detailers..... all they do is detail a car, not visually enhance it.


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

james b said:


> none of you mods set it straight it wernt us so we have to do it for our selfs (when we have done nothing wrong) but you will help cover it up for the person who actualy [email protected] up and took the pi$$ with a clients motor


With respect James 'none of us mods' got involved full stop bar to lock the thread. Its not our place to say who it was or wasn't! This isn't DW's fight!

As for helping to cover it up we will do no such thing!

Its simply a thread that started on PH that we do not want spilling over on DW. None of us know the facts and its unlikely we ever will! yes we know who did it but given both parties are currently dealing with it through solictors its in the best interest that us mods or tbh anyone doesn't get involved!


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

.....


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Brazo said:


> With respect James 'none of us mods' got involved full stop bar to lock the thread. Its not our place to say who it was or wasn't! This isn't DW's fight!
> 
> As for helping to cover it up we will do no such thing!
> 
> Its simply a thread that started on PH that we do not want spilling over on DW. None of us know the facts and its unlikely we ever will! yes we know who did it but given both parties are currently dealing with it through solictors its in the best interest that us mods or tbh anyone doesn't get involved!


Ok i understand, i also understand its a dificult position to be in for the mods, but you have to see mine and brys point, we have already been tared with the same brush cos of this 

Maybe i was a bit out of line saying you guys where helping cover it up, so il apologise for that



AndyC said:


> People,
> 
> I've made my own position clear to my fellow moderators and the owners of DW. I said early on in this thread that if this individual was a member of DW then I would call for a ban and I will stand by that comment. If this means that I end up no longer being a part of this place then so be it.
> 
> ...


That takes balls and i respect you for standing by your decision Andy


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

I do take your point James and its unfortunate that the good people of the south are being tarred with the same brush. I have no doubt it will come out in the wash (so to speak!) soon enough.


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## *MAGIC* (Feb 22, 2007)

For legal reasons i have just popped this down.
I will repost this soon as it needes to be cleared first sorry.
If anyone wants the details call me for now.

Robbie


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Fair post Robbie, but if you had have come out with that post early on you would not have had the speculation, as i said the guy came across as a [email protected] in his emails to me but if we have only one side of the story to go by and the other party not offering there side then what are we to believe ? 

To be fair you should not drive a clients car full stop unless they want you to collect/deliver all you do is increase the risk factor on a job and IMO as you have found out its not worth the risk. personally id rather just have the doe off a job than a set of finished pics.

But im afraid you wont get an apologie out of me as i stand by what i said, taking a clients car for a spin is out of order, regardless of if you did or not.


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## *MAGIC* (Feb 22, 2007)

Just to add that i was advised not to comment on anything said either in this forum or others.
If it was upto me i would of done sooner but i didnt for a reason.

Robbie


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## Exclusive Car Care (Jan 14, 2007)

Robbie to even drive the car *no more than 2.5 miles *for photo purposes without owners consent is wrong mate.

I sure hope you get this sorted and are able to turn this around:thumb:


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## Paul-T (Nov 2, 2006)

I'm sorry Robbie, but I still think that you think your actions were perfectly ok, and that you haven't done wrong. 

When all this is flying about and suddenly a lot of people are in the frame (in the public eye) and it starts to affect their business by association, are you really surprised about the reaction? 

Does this mean you've been doing the same with other customers cars too, if you couldn't get hold of them, and you've had a lucky escape so far? That's a rhetorical question, I don't want to know, it's none of my business. 

Based on what you've put above, not getting hold of the bloke was an automatic 'no' to driving it. That's the long and short version in one go. 

While the owner of the car sounds a bit mental, you left yourself wide open to grief. I hope the pictures were worth it because it sounds like he will continue to make waves.


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## *MAGIC* (Feb 22, 2007)

Paul

Im not saying if it was right or not im simply saying how the guy is trying to shaft me for a freebie i have driven customers cars to locations before and yes i have had there permission to do so.
But im more wound up with the which hunt, people who know me - you being one should know that the story written by the owner sounded fishy from the start.
You could of rang me or text me if it concerned you so much and i would of happily told you the low down, but instead you join the which hunt on a one sided story.


Robbie


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## *MAGIC* (Feb 22, 2007)

And for the record the mods had no idea about who it was and i had no help from them in locking threads.

Robbie


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## *MAGIC* (Feb 22, 2007)

AndyC said:


> People,
> 
> I've made my own position clear to my fellow moderators and the owners of DW. I said early on in this thread that if this individual was a member of DW then I would call for a ban and I will stand by that comment. If this means that I end up no longer being a part of this place then so be it.
> 
> ...


Andy.

This suprises me it really does ( to make this assuption on a one sided story ) and all i will say is thank the good lord above you dont run our country.

Robbie

Stepping up to the plate...

If you truly believe i deserve to be banned from DW after reading my statement then i will happily hang up the DW coat and quietly walk out the door mate.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Robbie you have to see it this way too, where as the owners story maybe a little over hyped your story could well be the opposit and the truth be some where in the middle.personaly i dont believe either story to be 100% accurate.


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## *MAGIC* (Feb 22, 2007)

James all i can say is that its up to you to believe what or who you want mate i just wanted people to know there are two sides to every story.

Edit: The thing is mate you sound like your the jury on this and i can understand that you are a s/e detailer (if in fact you still are as it wasnt long ago you said your not doing it anymore as your now a dj ) and i do appologise if this has in any way effected you but i am not going to be dragged through mud for someone that simply wants work done for nothing!!!
Have you never done anything wrong in all the years you have been running.
Your trying to give it 10 nil on a situation you said yourself you dont know the truth. i could turn around and tell storys that ive heard about you but wont as i dont know the full truth.

Robbie


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

Valet Magic said:


> And for the record the mods had no idea about who it was and i had no help from them in locking threads.
> 
> Robbie


I'm glad you have come out so to speak to prevent the speculation and yes your right you had no assistance so far in locking threads.

That said we did know it was you so to speak, the thread in the mods forum had it down as you within hours of the PH story breaking.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Robbie I never once said Auto Finesse had stoped detailing I clearly stated I have less time personaly to detail cars due to being signed to a record lable for production, I have been a Aspirering DJ since I was 15 and I have done 2 years studdying sound engineering it's not a new thing it's just now I get a proper wage off it, auto finesse is still a 9-5 Monday to Friday business with 2 full time employees and it's still a big % of my income, "just for the record"

You cant winge about the guy wanting to get the work done for nothing, you could clearly see he was a chancer from the very first email, so if you left your self open to it more fool you.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Ok il just add some thing to this, you thinking it dont affect others when clearly it dose, thread goes up on PH and check out what he said, lucky for me i have a few clients on PH who can vouch for me (and the master Dodo LOL), it still casts a shadow over all the detailers with units in this area, not directly blaming you robbie you client IMO is a class T**T IMO he should have ought right slammed you or not posted, i had to perswade this bloke today on the phone it was not me who was the (in his words) "the joy ride detailer"

http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=136&t=665998&mid=91598&nmt=Detailers in Herts


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