# How you gonna answer this guy



## Astro (Dec 4, 2005)

Found this on the Audi Forum
http://www.tt-forum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=182037


----------



## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

You don't. Let him have his opinions and move on.


----------



## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

Posted: Yesterday, 20:46 
A list of useless products designed to con those into car detailing!

(i) Snowfoam: Such a load of nonsense. The idea is that you spray foamed up shampoo on a dirty car, let it settle, and then rinse it off. Sounds great, but guess what, you still have to wash the car afterwards as normal because the snowfoam only takes the heaviest dirt off. Why go through the pointless snowfoam step when you can just wash the car and get all of the dirt off in one go? 

(ii) Shampoo: More rubbish. If you use a non-PH-neutral one it strips off all of your polish and wax, if you do use a PH-neutral one what does it do that's better than just washing the car with plain water? Nothing. The dirt will easily fall off a waxed/polished car, so using shampoo is pointless. 

(iii) Quick-Detailing-Spray: If you wax the car with a decent wax at least once a month, there is no need for the little 'wax top ups' provided by these sprays. If you don't properly wax the car regularly, then buy a decent wax and forget about 'quick detailing sprays' that will only put a light coat of wax on the car that will soon wear off anyway...

(iv) Show-Shine: When in the name of God are you going to use this? The idea is that you spray a bit of this Mr. Sheen type stuff on your car to restore that 'showroom/just washed shine' a few days after washing. So, a few days after your car was washed and cleaned to a sparkling finish, you spray the Mr. Sheen onto all of the dust that has accumulated since and start rubbing it in creating swirl marks. Great. 

(v) Spray-On Alloy Wheel Polish: "Spray the polish onto the wheel but don't get any on the brake disks"...oops...! So, you have to actually take the wheel off to use this polish-in-a-can nonense to avoid covering the brakes with it. Sure if you were going to go to all of that bother you'd clean and seal the wheels properly using a better product while they were off.

(vi) 'Pre-wax cleanser': Give me strength. After claying this is simply not required. And on the subject of claying, I have to laugh at all of these pictures of used clay implying that all of the dirt on the clay is as a result of removed impurities/road grime. Most of the 'dirt' on the clay is simply the wax/polish previously applied to the car, not any form of contaminant on the surface of the paint at all, so clay isn't as magic as people think it is. Claying is worthwhile, but its effect is usually greatly exaggerated.

(vi) The famous 'two-bucket' method of washing. Take your two little buckets and throw them as far away as you can. Now take the hose and wash the car using the continuous flow of clean water it supplies. Much easier? Yes. Much better? Yes. Simple. The 'two-bucket' method - honest to god, such nonsense!

Well i must say hes got some Nuts posting this and i bet his pm box is well full already. Will look forward to reading the next 5000 posts on this good and bad.:lol:


----------



## Guest (Sep 1, 2010)

(i) Snowfoam: Such a load of nonsense. The idea is that you spray foamed up shampoo on a dirty car, let it settle, and then rinse it off. Sounds great, but guess what, you still have to wash the car afterwards as normal because the snowfoam only takes the heaviest dirt off. Why go through the pointless snowfoam step when you can just wash the car and get all of the dirt off in one go?

Reducing the risk of inflicting scratches/swirls etc

I could answer all his questions but i can't be bothered,hes clearly a ****!!


----------



## Needs a clean (May 24, 2008)

He has a point with the 2BM though.


----------



## Guest (Sep 1, 2010)

Needs a clean said:


> He has a point with the 2BM though.


Have you seen his signature :lol: 18inch turbines,such a chav :lol:


----------



## Needs a clean (May 24, 2008)

T4RFY said:


> Have you seen his signature :lol: 18inch turbines,such a chav :lol:


Gotta love a set of 18" Turbines though!!! :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Guest (Sep 1, 2010)

Needs a clean said:


> Gotta love a set of 18" Turbines though!!! :lol::lol::lol:


Blinging down sarfffffffffend with his johnson's baby oil 1 bucket and sponge in the boot :lol:

Does he not realise foam softens the dirt to remove it safer,if you rub a mitt over solid dirt chances are you have to rub hard and a fair chance of scratching,with foam it reduces this risk,it's not rocket science.


----------



## Needs a clean (May 24, 2008)

Some people think they know, when they dont have a clue!


----------



## alexandjen (Feb 24, 2008)

Needs a clean said:


> He has a point with the 2BM though.


He has a point yes........ but what if you don't have access to a hose and constant running water, for some a bucket is the only way to get the water to the car so the 2BM is a must for them.
I myself do have access to constant running water but use the 2BM so I can shampoo the car and not just use plain water for the wash stage:thumb:


----------



## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

Posted: Yesterday, 22:14 
The thing about all chemicals is that they all do something. 

Snow Foam

The concept of using a matrix to keep the chemical in contact with the surface is well proven so if you want to keep a chemical in contact with a vertical surface a gel is the best thing. But you can't see a gel, so most chemicals foam so you can see where you've applied it.

The whole 'weight of the foam' dragging physical dirt downwards is an additional benefit. The foam is there to keep tyhe chemical clinging. If the foam doesn't sit (dwell) on the vertical surface for at least 10 minutes it's no good. You should be able to draw a horizontal line across the foam and it should take several minutes for the gap to disappear.

Most people use cold water. To make proper foam you need at least 50°C water.

Snow Foam is only really any good for long-contact wax stripping in my opinion.

pH Neutral Detergents

pH is a shocking way to decide which detergent you want to use. Alkaline chemicals (high pH) are a cheap way of getting a detergent effect with fats. That's why they are brilliant at stripping off waxes, but they won't touch synthetic sealants because the sealant isn't a fat. Acid chemicals are great for descaling. To remove highly proteinaceous debris you want a chlorinated chemical. pH neutral detergents work just fine, because they're not actually pH neutral, they're just a little bit less alkaline than most. Your statement about dirt falling off waxed cars is only partially correct because all the wax does is cause the debris on the surface to form up into little balls when they get into contact with water. It helps, but the real benefit is you can strip off teh layer of wax and all the dirt is gone. 

Quick Detailing Sprays

These definitely do work. They are optical depth enhancers and if you have a smooth surface to apply them onto they will make it look smoother and deeper.

Show Shine

Again - this is a specialist product that will give fabulous depth under the right conditions. Just because it doesn't work on your car, doesn't mean that it won't help get you into the top 5 at a Concours d'Elegance competition.

Spray on Alloy Wheel Polish

I'm not sure what you mean by this but you repeatedly seem to confuse polish (an abrasive designed to give a smooth finish) with a wax or sealant which is a protective coating. As I take my wheels off the car every 6-8 weeks to clean them inside and out I don't see the problem with using a spray sealant on them while they are off and clean. I wouldn't use a wax to protect them as most waxes have issues with brake dust but a good sealant like CG109 will help keep them clean for longer.

Pre-wax cleanser

This is gentle degreaser with fillers in it to help smooth out the surface after polishing. It has a place in the detailers arsenal of chemicals.

Two-bucket Method? 

This is an interesting one as I actually use 3 buckets and 3 mitts and wash the car from the bottom up a la Rolls Royce Chauffeur School. You can wash a car like that with 5l of water carried in a can in the boot. On the TT I do the wheels and lower waistline with the first mitt and 2l of water. Then I do the sides, front and back with the second mitt and bucket with 1l of water and finally the roof, tailgate and bonnet have a further wash mitt and 1l of water. The last 1l of water is poured on from a watering can. A hosepipe is incredibly wasteful. And, if you're in a hard water area, a great way to get streaky paint. 

I love my car, and I wouldn't want it to be non-shiny, so I look after it. If I spend a few pounds on stuff that works, then that's my prerogative. 


Thought this was a great reply and view:thumb:


----------



## Guest (Sep 1, 2010)

Needs a clean said:


> Some people think they know, when they dont have a clue!


Hit the nail on the head there fella! There's no telling people like him,he's best left to his own devices.


----------



## beany_bot (Oct 6, 2008)

couldn't resist lol, never go back on there anyway lol


----------



## Needs a clean (May 24, 2008)

alexandjen said:


> He has a point yes........ but what if you don't have access to a hose and constant running water, for some a bucket is the only way to get the water to the car so the 2BM is a must for them.
> I myself do have access to constant running water but use the 2BM so I can shampoo the car and not just use plain water for the wash stage:thumb:


I meant that i personally think that the 2BM is a waste of time regardless if you have a hose or not. :thumb:


----------



## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

that guy cracks me up :lol:


----------



## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

T4RFY said:


> Hit the nail on the head there fella! There's no telling people like him,he's best left to his own devices.


Heh heh, I think the guy has some very valid points , even if they be a little extreme to the consensous' on here 
One only has to try suggestions , saying that if one enjoys the hobby then nowt wrong with that :thumb:


----------



## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

BTW: may see this being closed or deleted for fear of "forum wars". Don't want too many people from here going on and slating him


----------



## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

contaminents on your paint is just polish and wax so dont worry about it :lol:


----------



## Needs a clean (May 24, 2008)

-Mat- said:


> BTW: may see this being closed or deleted for fear of "forum wars". Don't want too many people from here going on and slating him


The thought had never crossed my mind!


----------



## Guest (Sep 1, 2010)

Don't think it matters how many people from here go on and slate him,you've admitted it so that's probably enough to close the thread :lol:


----------



## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

Trouble with closing this thread is i think we miss alot of good points and views. Good and bad:thumb: Rather than slate him lets have views why he is right or wrong. Opinions help all to reach the perfect finish which we are all after:thumb:


----------



## Spuj (Apr 19, 2010)

chillly said:


> Trouble with closing this thread is i think we miss alot of good points and views. Good and bad:thumb: Rather than slate him lets have views why he is right or wrong. Opinions help all to reach the perfect finish which we are all after:thumb:


Whoops


----------



## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

-Mat- said:


> BTW: may see this being closed or deleted for fear of "forum wars". Don't want too many people from here going on and slating him


Doesn't have to be. If people want to go on there (or anywhere for that matter) when these kind of posts are spotted to challenge the points raised, then by all means do so, there's absolutely no issue there at all.

What I would have an issue with is if it's done on the back of this site in a condescending or even insulting way, and in the course of challenging anything raised about detailing that's 'questionable', DW is quoted and the general message is that we're somehow superior and everyone else is stupid, because THAT reflects badly on us and gives the wrong impression of what we're about.

For example, something like; _"You must be complete idiot if that's what you think about X or Y. You want to get yourself onto Detailing World mate and see how it's done properly by people who know what they're talking about rather than spouting [email protected]"_ *isn't* how I want DW to be portrayed to other sites, and I've made this quite clear a number of times in the past


----------



## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Needs a clean said:


> I meant that i personally think that the 2BM is a waste of time regardless if you have a hose or not. :thumb:


+1 ...and waste of effort, ...and waste of water!
All I'm gonna say is "bless ONR"

- am I the enlightened one? 

Regards,
Steve


----------



## 888-Dave (Jul 30, 2010)

Eddy said:


> You don't. Let him have his opinions and move on.


+1 He's entitled to his opinion like everyone else. He'd have a field day on here though wouldn't he.  with so many people on here looking for the ultimate shine and will stop at nothing to get it. Where as he just isn't too fussed. ah well move on... NEXT!


----------



## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I'm actually with the poster on the TT forum...

I am getting to the point that I would really like not bothering about my cars anymore...

To be honest, I haven't washed or detailed anything for well over 3 months now, and I'm actually finding I have a better life for it......

Not trying to knock what I used to do....but there are far better things out there for me at the moment than spending all weekend washing a car...

Actually, now that I think about it, I can see me selling ALL my detailing stuff pretty soon.... :doublesho

:thumb:


----------



## Strothow (Oct 29, 2009)

Fair enough if your not bothered...but he is saying that they are all pointless, and they don't do anything...two different things...


----------



## Needs a clean (May 24, 2008)

The Cueball said:


> I'm actually with the poster on the TT forum...
> 
> I am getting to the point that I would really like not bothering about my cars anymore...
> 
> ...


Much the same as me. Not detailed anything for ages. A quick wash and maybe even a polish, thats about it!


----------



## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

I've lost interest on my car TBH, but still enjoy the challenge of making my mates cars look better


----------



## SNAKEBITE (Feb 22, 2010)

Why waste minutes of your life poking it up?

Just remember not to buy his car............


----------



## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

looks like someone on the TT forums has answered his points


----------



## Reds (Jan 14, 2009)

-Mat- said:


> looks like someone on the TT forums has answered his points


Nice big cup Mat  :thumb:


----------



## fozzy (Oct 22, 2009)

People like him walk past me and comment every time i'm doing a car outside my house, I never feel the need to retaliate with them, so I wouldn't with him. It's my bag, my interest and in my own time. 

Oh and my cars are always shiny as they benefit from it all


----------



## Evil Monkey (Mar 15, 2010)

Well it's his opinion and he's entitled to it.
Bet his paintwork looks like crap though.


----------



## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Ignorance is bliss and he seems blissfully ignorant as far as I can see! 

Oh well, I'm sure his car looks 'great' when the sun hits it!


----------



## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

he drives a girls car, so has girls opinions on detailing? :lol: mwahahaha


----------



## Spuj (Apr 19, 2010)

J1ODY A said:


> best thing on that thread...


:wave:


----------



## eddiel34 (Mar 22, 2008)

The Cueball said:


> I'm actually with the poster on the TT forum...
> 
> I am getting to the point that I would really like not bothering about my cars anymore...
> 
> ...


Don't be like that. 

I come and go with my levels of interest and right now I am quite keen on the car looking as good as poss. within an ever decreasing budget. Time wise 2hrs on a Sunday and I find it relaxing. Still noticeably different from the mainstream.

Chasing perfection does take the enjoyment out of it as you only see the imperfections. 6hrs later and your still not happy.:devil:

I've actually got a second car coming and it will be getting a mandatory protection and quick clean when needed.

Audi guy got the reaction he was looking for. None of the counter points made to him registered as he was only looking for the reaction and will be sitting loving all the outrage and fuss.


----------



## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

eddiel34 said:


> Don't be like that.
> 
> I come and go with my levels of interest and right now I am quite keen on the car looking as good as poss. within an ever decreasing budget. Time wise 2hrs on a Sunday and I find it relaxing. Still noticeably different from the mainstream.
> 
> ...


Between the lines, some of respondants here are actually agreeing with the points made by the 'offender' from elsewhere, after all nobody likes to feel like they are a 'sucker'.
Just slagging off the guy when he is not actually here to defend or explain his post does seem a little cowardice, not saying anybody is a coward here, but it should be easy to dispell his findings in the post, however in practice, sadly many may find what he writes to be near true 
Just because some do not spend absolutely hrs washing their vehicles, does not mean they do not look fab or that the 'detailer' has not completed their task properly, after all with experience certain tasks should become quicker to complete, along with certain tools.
One can see why some lose perhaps enthusiasm, not because they have lost faith, but perhaps because their are too many 'miracle' products 
PS I'm not the guy on the TT forum


----------



## eddiel34 (Mar 22, 2008)

Avanti said:


> Between the lines, some of respondants here are actually agreeing with the points made by the 'offender' from elsewhere, after all nobody likes to feel like they are a 'sucker'.
> Just slagging off the guy when he is not actually here to defend or explain his post does seem a little cowardice, not saying anybody is a coward here, but it should be easy to dispell his findings in the post, however in practice, sadly many may find what he writes to be near true
> Just because some do not spend absolutely hrs washing their vehicles, does not mean they do not look fab or that the 'detailer' has not completed their task properly, after all with experience certain tasks should become quicker to complete, along with certain tools.
> One can see why some lose perhaps enthusiasm, not because they have lost faith, but perhaps because their are too many 'miracle' products
> PS I'm not the guy on the TT forum


I'll try to word this properly but I am in no way agreeing with the offender who I think was trying to annoy rather than truly believing what he posted. It is very easy to be dismissive of a lot of things as worthless.

Like I said from my own experience my levels of interest vary. My car is a dailly driver and when I really got into it I would get upset with every mark that appeared and had to deal with it immediately. My car had to be perfect and I bought lots of stuff maybe I didn't need, but it is one of my hobbies and I do love the results.

Now, I have my routine down, like you said, and I can get similar results quicker. The car still stands out in a crowded car park. I just don't fuss so much and find I am happier being content.

Look out for my next post when I am mad keen again defending a shed load of money I just spent on new products.:thumb:


----------



## Doc (Feb 2, 2008)

Evil Monkey said:


> Well it's his opinion and he's entitled to it.
> Bet his paintwork looks like crap though.


Over the years I have owned a lot of cars using questionable techniques on cleaning and polishing but none of them looked crap.
Just because someone uses a different technique or does not do X,Y or Z does not mean they cannot get a decent level of cleanliness and shine.

I cant see what the fuss is about, it is his opinion and a couple I agree with


----------



## evotuning (Oct 16, 2009)

> a couple I agree with


With which of his statements do you agree ?


----------



## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

I have to say I'm pretty dissapointed with some people who decided to sign up over there just for the sake of having a digg/proving a poin/ being sarcastic.

Who the hell are we to turn up on some others guys turf and tell them they are wrong?

We are the crazy ones who spent hundreds and thousands on a hobby of cleaning cars, we are the minority, and we're not here to police the rest of the car world and tell them how we do things.

How would we feel if people came onto DW and posted a picture with a stupid comment on it, and had diggs and told us were all a bunch of sad twats? (however true it might be) its not nice and it doesn't solve or prove anything.


----------



## P.A.D (Jun 26, 2008)

Eddy said:


> I have to say I'm pretty dissapointed with some people who decided to sign up over there just for the sake of having a digg/proving a poin/ being sarcastic.
> 
> Who the hell are we to turn up on some others guys turf and tell them they are wrong?
> 
> ...


Agree with you there Fella

Russ


----------



## Spuj (Apr 19, 2010)

evotuning said:


> With which of his statements do you agree ?


Personally i would agree with the spray on wheel polish statement, but the rest of his points do make me laugh. My opinion of course.


----------



## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

I agree with his point just because Dave the master Detailer says you need two buckets and a grit guard you must buy them. but hey its my hobby so if I want to pointlessly foam my car then i will.
What I think is a point he missed is people being blinded by brands.Just because its brand X and is only available online at £45 its better than brand Y at £3.50 from Asda.I wont mention the APC wars of recent times,although I will say Daisy still rules.


----------



## evotuning (Oct 16, 2009)

> i would agree with the spray on wheel polish statement


Regarding this point,I'm not actually sure what does he mean by " spray on wheel polish" ? Does he mean wheel cleaners or some wheel dedicated abrasive polish ? However I never heard of such, especially in form of spray.


----------



## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

evotuning said:


> Regarding this point,I'm not actually sure what does he mean by " spray on wheel polish" ? Does he mean wheel cleaners or some wheel dedicated abrasive polish ? However I never heard of such, especially in form of spray.


You have to remember polish/wax is the same thing to some folk, suppose he meant the wheel sealant type products.
Looking at posts on the forum, whether wheel cleaner spray on rinse off, or wheel sealants, some have had their expectations raised beyond reason


----------



## Spuj (Apr 19, 2010)

Avanti said:


> You have to remember polish/wax is the same thing to some folk, suppose he meant the wheel sealant type products.
> Looking at posts on the forum, whether wheel cleaner spray on rinse off, or wheel sealants, some have had their expectations raised beyond reason


I would have to agree, especially with wheel cleaners. I have used a couple recently ( very well known/used products) that have actually disappointed me in not achieving their claims. Also the same could be said with a wheel sealant. Personal experience though.


----------



## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

evotuning said:


> Regarding this point,I'm not actually sure what does he mean by " spray on wheel polish" ? Does he mean wheel cleaners or some wheel dedicated abrasive polish ? However I never heard of such, especially in form of spray.


Autoglym Wheel Seal is an aerosol spray on product


----------



## Cloned_boris (May 27, 2009)

Leave him to it, someone like him is not worth replying to.


----------



## drmole (Apr 16, 2010)

sounds like an attention seeker if he would actually try the products b4 slagging them off he might realise they sell in high numbers for a reason!!!!! 
think he should keep his opinions and his chav wheels to himself as the saying goes dont knock it till u try it! Fecking A-HOLE


----------



## Red_Cloverleaf (Jul 26, 2009)

chillly said:


> Posted: Yesterday, 20:46
> A list of useless products designed to con those into car detailing!
> 
> (i) Snowfoam: Such a load of nonsense. The idea is that you spray foamed up shampoo on a dirty car, let it settle, and then rinse it off. Sounds great, but guess what, you still have to wash the car afterwards as normal because the snowfoam only takes the heaviest dirt off. Why go through the pointless snowfoam step when you can just wash the car and get all of the dirt off in one go?
> ...


I don't think it's that unreasonable, to be honest - especially about the spray on wheel polish. A Form is a Forum after all and the guy is entitled to his opinion.


----------

