# Using Mobile while in driver seat.



## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Ok I've just seen a clip, not googled the law on it but I'm baffled at this . If the ignition is on engine running and using a mobile phone on the public road are we braking the law?






Starts at 7:30


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## Meirion658 (Feb 11, 2012)

Exotica said:


> Ok I've just seen a clip, not googled the law on it but I'm baffled at this . If the ignition is on engine running and using a mobile phone on the public road are we braking the law?


Yes basically.

If you are holding the device in your hand and using it to communicate then you are breaking the law. If they dont do you for the using the device they can do you for driving with out due care etc, however that must be done at the point of issuing the fixed penalty/summons. They cant do you first for using device then have a second bite of cherry for due care.

If you deny using the device as a communication device I.e making calls or text, at the time of stop they can request data that can prove or disprove your account.


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## andy__d (Jun 27, 2018)

so If the car is Parked (legally) with the hand brake on and in neutral you can Still get done? even tho the car is Clearly (and safely ) parked in a legal manner?


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

From the RAC site:

Can I use my phone while driving if I'm not moving?

Contrary to what many drivers seem to think, the law still applies when your vehicle is stopped at lights or in heavy traffic. If your engine is running, your phone should be nowhere near your hands. This is still the case if the engine stops automatically to save fuel (called 'start-stop technology').

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/mobile-phone-laws/


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## grunty-motor (Aug 11, 2016)

And i have heard that if you are over the drink limit and in the car with the keys (car not running) you can get done as well.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

grunty-motor said:


> And i have heard that if you are over the drink limit and in the car with the keys (car not running) you can get done as well.


The offence you can be charged with is "drunk in charge of a motor vehicle"


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Simple solution, just switch off your phone before entering your car and put the phone in the cars glove box or the cars boot.


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

andy__d said:


> so If the car is Parked (legally) with the hand brake on and in neutral you can Still get done? even tho the car is Clearly (and safely ) parked in a legal manner?


Pretty much yes. Sitting waiting at a closed level crossing use the phone, breaking the law. It's a bit mad really.

Apologies this was posted using Tapatalk


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

Soul boy 68 said:


> Simple solution, just switch off your phone before entering your car and put the phone in the cars glove box or the cars boot.


Bit hard when most people use the phone as a sat nav mate

I've never done this or been affected by this law, i just think it's a bit barmy in certain situations that's all.

Apologies this was posted using Tapatalk


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

vsideboy said:


> Bit hard when most people use the phone as a sat nav mate
> 
> I've never done this or been affected by this law, i just think it's a bit barmy in certain situations that's all.
> 
> Apologies this was posted using Tapatalk


Have you got an Android phone? Why not setup Android Auto?

You can activate many functions on your phone, including Google Maps and Waze by voice activation.

I'm sure Apple will have the same thing.


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## Blackroc (Dec 10, 2012)

vsideboy said:


> Bit hard when most people use the phone as a sat nav mate
> 
> I've never done this or been affected by this law, i just think it's a bit barmy in certain situations that's all.
> 
> Apologies this was posted using Tapatalk


You can also get into trouble for using your sat nav too!

The law isn't their to be an ass to people, it's due to the huge amount of accidents / deaths brought about by texting / using the phone whilst driving..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

Kerr said:


> Have you got an Android phone


Yes thanks

Apologies this was posted using Tapatalk


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## fabionvieira (Oct 30, 2018)

Don't know if anyone seen or know about this. But apparently you can still get a ticket and points by using the incar technology... or car connect if any police officer thinks that you are being careless.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....enalty-points-ban-car-technology-careless/amp

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

vsideboy said:


> Bit hard when most people use the phone as a sat nav mate
> 
> I've never done this or been affected by this law, i just think it's a bit barmy in certain situations that's all.
> 
> Apologies this was posted using Tapatalk


Instead of using a phone as a sat nav and risk the temptation to use your phone for texting and calling or answering an in coming call, just buy a Tom Tom or Garmin sat nav and stick it on the cars windscreen. Will be much cheaper than a fine and points on your licence or worse.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

In this day and age there is absolutely no excuse for actually handling your phone whilst behind the wheel

I still see many drivers on their phones even though the cars they are driving will have Bluetooth fitted as standard 

Should be a really quick and easy punishment for anyone caught - phone hit with a sledgehammer - costly to replace and inconvenient - you probably would not use your phone again whilst behind the wheel


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

andy665 said:


> Should be a really quick and easy punishment for anyone caught - phone hit with a sledgehammer - costly to replace and inconvenient - you probably would not use your phone again whilst behind the wheel


I think more people would worry about that rather than silly points and fines (to them)..

The problem is, people will NOT give up their zombie devices...and tbh... there never seems to be anything to stop them anyway.

When I filter to work, I could easily "catch" over a dozen drivers, every day, there and back... all it takes is undercover police and a helmet camera.

But you know... lack of funds funds, feet on street, brexit, climate change, royals moving... etc etc etc... it'll never happen.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

In answer to the OP's question, you can legally use a handheld phone if safely parked, but

"you MUST switch off the engine, headlights and fog lights".

https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law


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## mar00 (Jun 24, 2018)

we are in a time where people are ignorant and can't take responsibility for anything, I've dragged two out of cars in the last month on phones one went through a pedestrian crossing on a red light, should be an instant 12 month ban,


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

The funny thing is, a mobile phone conviciton now carries the same weight as driving without insurance, 6 points and a hefty fine. It also has detrimental effect on insurance premiums for 5 years.

I've started walking to work and in stop start traffic, can clearly see every third of fourth car the driver has their head in their lap with a distinctive glow on their face from a phone screen. 

Ask these same people if they would drive daily without any insurance and they'd be mortified that someone would even ask.

The trouble is, as with most things, whether it be the endless redlight jumpers, parking on pedestrian crossings, speeding down residential streets, even dog owners not clearing up dog poop, there is no consequence for their actions, so nothing will really change.

As Cueball said, lack of funds, feet on the street etc..


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Ok in the clip two officers say you can use your mobile as long as you’re not moving . Clearly stating if you’re not moving on the road you can hold it up to your ear even when waiting at traffic lights .


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## cole_scirocco (Mar 5, 2012)

Exotica said:


> Ok in the clip two officers say you can use your mobile as long as you're not moving . Clearly stating if you're not moving on the road you can hold it up to your ear even when waiting at traffic lights .


Surely that is against the law because you are still in control of a motor vehicle even though it is standing?

Only thing I think is that you can use your phone if the car is secured via the handbrake and also you are correctly parked.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

What clip Exotica?

In the clip that is on the page that fabionvieira posted it looks pretty clear that out on the road you cannot use your phone except if it is truly hands free so you don't need to touch it to operate it.

The only exception is to make a 999 and it is not safe to stop.



> I've started walking to work and in stop start traffic, can clearly see every third of fourth car the driver has their head in their lap with a distinctive glow on their face from a phone screen.


Frighten them by taking their picture.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Cole_E91 said:


> Surely that is against the law because you are still in control of a motor vehicle even though it is standing?
> 
> Only thing I think is that you can use your phone if the car is secured via the handbrake and also you are correctly parked.


I will try to avoid posting the clip as the two officers clearly need educating .

A member of the public who looking at previous videos clearly has beef with his local constabulary but that's another story. He observes the driver in the car on the road with hazards on and on a mobile . Anyway he pulls them up on it and that's when the officers explain as long as not in propulsion it's fine to use.


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## donnyboy (Oct 27, 2005)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50250730


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

Exotica said:


> Ok in the clip two officers say you can use your mobile as long as you're not moving . Clearly stating if you're not moving on the road you can hold it up to your ear even when waiting at traffic lights .


Having sat in court while someone was convicted of exactly this I have to doubt the accuracy regarding what may have been said by the Police !


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## dholdi (Oct 1, 2008)

Soul boy 68 said:


> Instead of using a phone as a sat nav and risk the temptation to use your phone for texting and calling or answering an in coming call, just buy a Tom Tom or Garmin sat nav and stick it on the cars windscreen. Will be much cheaper than a fine and points on your licence or worse.


I pretty sure operating a satnav whilst moving falls into the same category.


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Using your phone to pay at a drive thru - Is it illegal?

Strictly speaking, yes it is

https://www.express.co.uk/life-styl...-thru-mobile-phone-driving-law-fine-Apple-Pay

Best advice I've read regarding this topic is -

"Put simply, touching a mobile phone whilst the vehicle's engine is running, could, on a strict interpretation of the law, amount to a criminal offence."

"To avoid falling foul of the law, drivers should switch off their vehicle's engine and apply the handbrake prior to using their mobile phone at any time."


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

uruk hai said:


> Having sat in court while someone was convicted of exactly this I have to doubt the accuracy regarding what may have been said by the Police !


Scroll to 7:30 mins for the footage.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Clip is here

Scroll to 7:30 for footage


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Andy from Sandy said:


> What clip Exotica?
> 
> In the clip that is on the page that fabionvieira posted it looks pretty clear that out on the road you cannot use your phone except if it is truly hands free so you don't need to touch it to operate it.
> 
> ...


Posted the link


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Exotica said:


> Scroll to 7:30 mins for the footage.


I can't even bring myself to listen to that intolerable git.

How can people manage to dedicate 20 mins listening to him gibbering on like that and wheezing away?


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

Soul boy 68 said:


> Simple solution, just switch off your phone before entering your car and put the phone in the cars glove box or the cars boot.


You are spot on mate and it irritates the crap out of me to see people in premium brand cars that will 100% have hands free and they are still driving holding their phones to their ears!!! I'd love to be an under cover motorway cop!!


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

Exotica said:


> Ok in the clip two officers say you can use your mobile as long as you're not moving . Clearly stating if you're not moving on the road you can hold it up to your ear even when waiting at traffic lights .





Exotica said:


> Clip is here
> 
> Scroll to 7:30 for footage


Ok, in the original post you wrote "even when waiting at traffic lights" and that's what I watched someone get convicted of !

Not arguing either way !


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

uruk hai said:


> Ok, in the original post you wrote "even when waiting at traffic lights" and that's what I watched someone get convicted of !
> 
> Not arguing either way !


Convicted?


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

Exotica said:


> Convicted?


Ok, found guilty


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

uruk hai said:


> Ok, found guilty


Not even sure what you're talking about.


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

Exotica said:


> Not even sure what you're talking about.


Ok. :thumb:


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## Demented (Nov 3, 2014)

vsideboy said:


> Bit hard when most people use the phone as a sat nav mate
> 
> I've never done this or been affected by this law, i just think it's a bit barmy in certain situations that's all.







The Penalty for using a Mobile Phone whilst driving and mentioned within the footage has since been amended.

The current penalty; introduced as of March 2017 is a £200 fine and 6 penalty points.

It's my belief and often implied; it is an offence for a Driver whilst in the driving seat to handle a Hand Held Mobile Phone whilst the vehicles engine is running; regardless of whether the vehicle is stopped at Traffic Lights, a Level Crossing, Queuing in Stationery Traffic and even when Parked.

The only exception; when calling 999 in the event of a genuine emergency.

However; according to articles found online, a loophole has challenged the legal interpretation of the current legislation and some Drivers have successfully argued that filming and taking photos whilst driving does not match the wording of the legislation.

Although, I believe in the coming months, the legislation will be amended to prevent such a loophole being used as a defence.


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

This is the current law;

https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

To put it in perspective, you could be pulled for ANY activity which makes you less than 100% "in charge" of a vehicle on a public road, with a running engine.

Eating, drinking, phoning ,... anything uneccesary which takes your hands / mind off driving.

Hands free gives you an argument that you are in charge enough, but it can be taken into account if your driving is deemed to have fallen short of safe and legal. 

Also, btw, if you are sat in with a learner driver, ALL laws apply to you as if YOU were driving the car, because you are the "supervising driver" ... which is something a few driving instructors seem ignorant about when they are on the phone during lessons.

So, pull over, switch off, and put the parking brake on to be certain.

Then you are "Parked" not "Driving".


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## MagpieRH (May 27, 2014)

Demented said:


> The Penalty for using a Mobile Phone whilst driving and mentioned within the footage has since been amended.
> 
> The current penalty; introduced as of March 2017 is a £200 fine and 6 penalty points.
> 
> ...


This. It's illegal to use the phone when in control of the vehicle. There should be no ifs or buts here, but somebody's found a loophole or two and is using it to get guilty people off a charge they deserve and brought on themselves.

If you're not sure, don't answer the phone.

You can be considered to be in control of the car if the keys are in the ignition, even if it's not running. Possibly unlikely to be done if you've pulled over in a safe place and switched off, but technically you could be.

If the call's that important, stop and make/take it. If it's not, concentrate on driving.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

So the officers statements are completely false?


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Exotica said:


> So the officers statements are completely false?


I take to you're into the the channel you linked? You seem more interested in trying to prove the police are wrong than read what people have posted for you.

Don't be like the guy you linked.


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## ffrs1444 (Jun 7, 2008)

Think its a no brainier if your parked in a parking bay and handbrake is on ok but if you pull over in a Cycle lane to use the phone a tad retarded. See people on the roads far to often on there phone when there all over the road.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Please let’s not get carried away with this, I sense a little bit of needling going on.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Kerr said:


> I take to you're into the the channel you linked? You seem more interested in trying to prove the police are wrong than read what people have posted for you.
> 
> Don't be like the guy you linked.


Well it's pretty confusing and no the bloke is a arrogant gorilla.


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## andy__d (Jun 27, 2018)

vsideboy said:


> Pretty much yes. Sitting waiting at a closed level crossing use the phone, breaking the law. It's a bit mad really.
> 
> Apologies this was posted using Tapatalk


that isnt parked correctly or legally though thats "sat in non moving traffic" , you Still need to pay attention to the road & traffic.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

As I understand it the offence is 

"driving while using a held-hand mobile telephone or a hand-held device for an interactive communication function"

There is no specific legal definition of "driving". This has been determined by case law, and case law has determined that a vehicle may be being driven even when stationary.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Car fire on outskirts of Wrexham yesterday which made Facebook.
One girl put a photo up of a policeman standing next to the burnt car, clearly see photo taken from drivers seat. This is on a roundabout as well! 

Her friend made a comment about her using her phone whilst driving, in front of a copper. 

Her reply was "Haha he wasn’t doing much to be fair so I took a sly one 😅: 

Hoping someone from police sees it and has a word.


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## MagpieRH (May 27, 2014)

Exotica said:


> Well it's pretty confusing and no the bloke is a arrogant gorilla.


Although there are various loopholes and vagaries in the law the way it's written, the intended meaning is clear - don't use your phone while at the wheel of a vehicle. IMO, if you're not sure whether you should be using your phone at any given time, you probably shouldn't be (that's a generalised 'you' and not specifically aimed at you, Exotica).

I haven't seen the video, but either the copper in question has misunderstood the law (unlikely, you'd hope), or been caught out and hoped his/her excuse was good enough to get whoever was filming to overlook it (probably more likely I'd guess, but equally worrying).


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

The laws bull imo, like many of them nowadays.
Your sat in traffic, quick change of the music no harm done. To get done for it in a stationary vehicle is just to bring in some extra cash. I'm doing it now, hurting no one.
Same as speeding on an open road with good visibility etc, won't hurt no one.

Laws the law I get it but I'm not out stabbing people or mugging grannys


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

possul said:


> The laws bull imo, like many of them nowadays.
> Your sat in traffic, quick change of the music no harm done. To get done for it in a stationary vehicle is just to bring in some extra cash. I'm doing it now, hurting no one.
> Same as speeding on an open road with good visibility etc, won't hurt no one.
> 
> Laws the law I get it but I'm not out stabbing people or mugging grannys


The thing is people aren't just changing music. Allow them to just change music and they'll just check their text messages when they are at it.

It's easy to set a playlist to last a journey.

If you have an Android phone setup Android Auto. You can control your music apps with voice control.

It'll also read your text messages out and you can dictate back as well.


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## MagpieRH (May 27, 2014)

possul said:


> The laws bull imo, like many of them nowadays.
> Your sat in traffic, quick change of the music no harm done. To get done for it in a stationary vehicle is just to bring in some extra cash. I'm doing it now, hurting no one.
> Same as speeding on an open road with good visibility etc, won't hurt no one.
> 
> Laws the law I get it but I'm not out stabbing people or mugging grannys


But why do you need to?
This argument that "it's just to bring in some cash" I find very strange - it's often used when people complain about speed cameras and red light cameras. It's not like they're making up the law on the spot - you know the law, you choose to break it, you pay the consequences.

The problem with changing the radio at lights for example, is you might miss the lights changing. Not a problem in itself, but most people would then pull away without checking properly when they do realise (or get a honk from the car behind) - that's when it becomes dangerous.

Any lapse in concentration can be nasty, even if it seems harmless.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

possul said:


> The laws bull imo, like many of them nowadays.
> Your sat in traffic, quick change of the music no harm done. To get done for it in a stationary vehicle is just to bring in some extra cash. I'm doing it now, hurting no one.
> Same as speeding on an open road with good visibility etc, won't hurt no one.
> 
> Laws the law I get it but I'm not out stabbing people or mugging grannys


I'll stick you on the back of my bike and you can see first hard the danger that idiots say in traffic do while 'just doing' something with their zombie device.

It's never a quick anything, and means they are not paying attention to what is going on around them.

Green lights, traffic moving, motorbikes legally filtering - its all a shock to them and they are oblivious to it all.

I do feel like turning super grass and start sending in my footage to police, I'm getting fed up of morons that think a LOL on social media is worth more than a life.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

i agree that the law is there in black and white, and tbh, the copper in that video should be prosecuted, end of, he would, without a doubt, give you a ticket without question, regardless of your excuse (if he caught you doing EXACTLY what he was doing).

then, we wouldn't be having this very discussion would we?

why didn't his colleague take the call???? or answer it for him and put it on speaker????


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I don't like even talking on the phone hands free when driving, it's a definite distraction and it should be discouraged. Actually texting, doing emails or whatsapp or holding the damned thing is dangerous in the extreme- the roads are plenty dangerous enough without people driving around glued to their damned phones.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Thread now closed.


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