# blamed for scratches to a customer's car



## nene (Jul 23, 2015)

Ok I was booked in for a mini valet and polish. I started customers checked it, i finished got paid went to my next job. When I got home I had a message from the customer from the mini valet and polish saying I'd scratched the car she said they is a large scratches/scrap as if it's been scrapped by a wall or some sort. In a nutshell she is blaming me. I know for a fact that was not me as my polisher is obtical and won't make noway near damage the car as. She wants my insurance details. Should I give them it to her but I'm thinking why should I if every customer blames me for scratches then no point going on. I've valeted thousands of cars and never come across this so that means I must be doing something good. But I guess there's always one. Any advice please


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## cossiecol (Jun 29, 2014)

I'm not a professional however I would have thought that she would need to prove beyond a doubt that you inflicted the damage, otherwise it's her word against yours.

It sounds to me like the user inflicted the damage and is looking for an easy way out. So I would be tempted to not hand over the insurance details if you're sure you didn't damage the customers car.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

I'd be asking for her proof that i damaged the car. If she can't provide proof then she hasn't a leg to stand on imho


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## Crafoo (Oct 27, 2013)

Sounds to me like she's had a scrape and is trying to use you as a means of paying for the repair.


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## nene (Jul 23, 2015)

Cheers lads. They is no proof but she said she's going to hand my company details to her insurance. So guess I'll wait and see. Is there anyway I can protect myself against this sort of thing as thinking about it it's easy to blame a valeter for scratches I guess.


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## Method Man (Aug 28, 2009)

Unless she has independent evidence to support her side of events then it simply boils down to her word against yours and she has no real basis to pursue a claim.

A couple of minutes either taking photos or a quick vid before and after each job from now on might give you a bit more comfort and/or defence if it, or something similar, happens again.


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

intresting thread 

you cant just lay down and take it if some dishonest person decides to blame some damage on you

maybe get some sheets printed out and mark down all the damage you can find and have it signed before you start work


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## nene (Jul 23, 2015)

Great advice lads. Guess I need to take a minute to do that before I start a valet. Today's claiming world eh gone mad thanks usa. Cheers lads I'll keep you posted of out come


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## Steve_6R (Jun 9, 2014)

Definitely get some kind of pre work assessment sheet done. Similar to the kind you get when you hire a car, just to cover yourself


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## adjones (Apr 24, 2013)

Id call your insurance company and let them know that someone is attempting to make a fraudulent claim against you. At least then they are not surprised by it coming.


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## iPlod999 (Jun 23, 2012)

Do you not take pictures of your jobs?


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## svended (Oct 7, 2011)

In future (where possible), have a walk round with the customer before you start, asking if there is any areas the customer would like you to focus on while assessing any existing damage and pointing it out to the customer after, have a further walk around. 

Following a stray bird bomb a couple of years ago I walk the owner round the car pointing out any areas I was unable to fully resolve (I'm not in business but do friends cars for free but one took umbrage (it was the last time I did her car) because a bird had left a bird bomb just inside the edge of the tailgate while the boot was open and I missed it). 

It may take a couple of minutes but it's best to cover yourself than be taken advantage of.


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## nene (Jul 23, 2015)

Yes a bit like your van insurance so to keep them upto date. I'm defo going to do a report before each valet I know it's a pain when you just want to crank on as quick as poss but worth it in the end


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## Method Man (Aug 28, 2009)

adjones said:


> Id call your insurance company and let them know that someone is attempting to make a fraudulent claim against you. At least then they are not surprised by it coming.


This is undoubtedly a good point but, personally, I'd think very carefully about doing that at this juncture otherwise you'll have to declare it at renewal and then watch your premiums increase.

If your insurer is anything like my g/f's then they might well end up paying the claim as it's cheaper for them to do it that way.

If you do have liability insurance then read the policy terms and conditions about the time period it allows you to report a claim and make sure you stay within those prescribed parameters.

If the other party does, in fact, report it to their insurers then is the time to have a think about reporting it to yours.

At the moment it seems to me as though it'll probably end up as a storm in a tea cup.

An unwelcome distraction nevertheless as you try and make an honest crumb at the end of every day.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

In the position you are in now, what you should do is invite the woman down so you can see the damage. This will help establish what the damage actually is and if you were likely to notice it prior to releasing the car. You should know then if it was there or not. 

As stupid as it may sound, it could be something simple. Not so long in the past here, some other woman started a thread that someone had put multiple scratches on her car in a car park. Turned out it was just polish that was difficult to remove. 

Rather than panicking and getting ahead of yourself, rule out the simple things. 

You'll need to be certain it couldn't have been you. It's a bad situation if you can't be 100% that it never happened in your care. 

I've been on the receiving end of people saying they never caused harm to my car, when I know 100% they did. Usually after a bit of disputing they give up. 

You know what many people are like these days. She'll take to Facebook and Twitter and slate your company badly. Even if it turns out there is damage and you aren't guilty, you might find this hurts a lot more than it should. 

First things first though, ask her down to view the damage and take it from there. 

Don't get drawn into an argument over ifs, coulds and buts.


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## Yellow Dave (Apr 5, 2011)

You havent said if there was any damage before the job started? And did you notmlet the owner see the car when finished to get paid?

have you seen or got photos of the claimed damage


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Invite her round so you can see the damage. Also think about where the car was parked when she arrived, and the different angles she would have seen before driving off, if it's a big scratch down the drivers door it would be rather hard her to say it was there when she left!



cossiecol said:


> I'm not a professional however I would have thought that she would need to *prove beyond a doubt that you inflicted the damage*, otherwise it's her word against yours.
> 
> It sounds to me like the user inflicted the damage and is looking for an easy way out. So I would be tempted to not hand over the insurance details if you're sure you didn't damage the customers car.


Not true, it would be a civil case so she would only have to prove 'on the balance of probability' that OP caused the damage.


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## SamFishlock (Jan 21, 2014)

Gheezer said:


> You need to have a Check-In-Check-Sheet that highlights any damage and a Customer Satisfaction Handover Note like you do for insurance . (PM me and I will send you a template to use)


Absolutely this. There needs to be a proper walk around with the owner before and after work is carried out, noting any damage and being signed for. There then needs to be a satisfaction receipt at the end.


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## supraGZaerotop (Jun 23, 2008)

if you did not cause the damage dont worry about it, like others have said its her word against yours. only thing, could she damage your rep. but then why should you pay for her damage. some people have some cheek.


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

We faced this issue many years ago in the car audio industry, in the end the only way was to make a simple inspection sheet which highlights any damage, be warned our boys soon took this as a boring box ticking exercise and just flew through it and missed some damage to alloys a local trade customer then tried claiming for curbed alloys, lucky enough our cctv had the vehicle on camera from the time they dropped it off to collection time and it didn’t move an inch, so if you go down that road take is serious. 

We even had to increase our labor prices to cover the 15-20 mins each inspection took.


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## nene (Jul 23, 2015)

The damage was there before I even started assuming she knew about it as it was massive. Great advice on the record damage sheet I'll be doing this from now. She's trying it on and to tell you the truth let her as I know for a fact I did not damage her car. She inspected it after and never said anything until that night. Sounds like a set up but she picked wrong firm to do this on.


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

Did you even drive/move her car??


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## Walesy. (Oct 1, 2009)

I would use this and adapt something to suit your own needs for future use and ask them to sign it, but be thorough. 
I would say she hasn't got a leg to stand on....tell your insurance company now that you have had some contact and that the possibility of someone making a fraudulent claim in likely due to the recent communication you have had. Any future communication is best done by text, email or recorded post so you have a record of it. I did this when someone claimed I sold them a van with a 'faulty timing belt'..I asked for all communication to be recorded via email or text or recorded post etc. They soon backed down when I went down that route. 
She needs to prove that the damaged wasnt there before you touched the car.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

First question, as earlier, did you drive or move the car?

If not, inspect the damage and take photographs. These may be of use when repudiating a claim as it could substantiate that the damage is impact damage from driving (or being hit by another vehicle when parked) and not from polishing. 

Who are you insured with? Do you have cover for damage to items worked upon? If so, what is your excess?


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Also be careful with pre-check sheets, dirty cars can hide damage and scratches, especially car park dinks which only become obvious on a nice shiny car. You could end signing yourself up for pre existing damage. Be sure you you cover these things with dirty cars.


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## sandyt87 (Jun 21, 2011)

Shiny said:


> Also be careful with pre-check sheets, dirty cars can hide damage and scratches, especially car park dinks which only become obvious on a nice shiny car. You could end signing yourself up for pre existing damage. Be sure you you cover these things with dirty cars.


So if that is the case would you remove the dirt to get a good look before the handover sheet is done?

Seems to be the only way to be 100% sure or are there other ways?

Regards

Alex


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

When I've done full cars before, I've always asked that it arrives cleanish. 

I assume it's going to need polishing top to bottom either way, so what's another poor polish wash going to do. 

But I don't do valeting for a living, you couldn't expect every customer to clean their car before they have it cleaned.


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## Kickasskev (Sep 18, 2012)

You should of gone straight back down to see, you can nearly ALWAYS tell if damage is fresh


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## Hufty (Apr 27, 2015)

Yellow Dave said:


> You havent said if there was any damage before the job started? And did you notmlet the owner see the car when finished to get paid?
> 
> have you seen or got photos of the claimed damage


Sounds like you are the brunt of saving someone's no claim bonus just be a scam ! Is she regular customer or total random?


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## Cy-Zuki (Feb 9, 2015)

Interesting - do please keep us updated---oh and good luck!


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## mikethefish (Feb 4, 2011)

As soon as you see any damage take a photo and text the owner informing them !!!!! All photos will be timed so will show what stage damage was noted especially important if vehicle still outside where customer left vehicle and before it's moved internally prior to polishing !!!!!


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## Leebo310 (Sep 30, 2013)

nene said:


> Ok I was booked in for a mini valet and polish


What exactly does your mini valet and polish include mate? Did you machine polish anything? If so, what did you do to the large scrape?



nene said:


> I know for a fact that was not me as my polisher is obtical and won't make noway near damage the car as.


If the damage is/was that bad then surely you'd have discussed this with her before any sort of polishing was done? Or if it was hidden by dirt then would you not have discussed this with after you cleaned it when you handed the car back and took payment? 
Something as bad as you're suggesting surely would be a talking point (either before or after) saying that you won't be able to remove the damage etc?



nene said:


> She wants my insurance details.


Are you insured?

If you genuinely haven't caused the damage then why not offer to go to her and inspect the car again rather than as others have suggested making her come to you? That will only anger her even more surely?? 
I'd be trying to do everything possible to diffuse the situation and maintain the company reputation.


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## SXTony (Jul 2, 2012)

supraGZaerotop said:


> if you did not cause the damage dont worry about it, like others have said its her word against yours. *only thing, could she damage your rep*. but then why should you pay for her damage. some people have some cheek.


Isn't that one of the most important things to a small business?


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## Kevlar (Nov 12, 2006)

I agree with the guys here do a pre inspection on the vehicle, surely 5 minutes doing this will save you money and problems later down the line. If it was me I would take photos to so easy to do it nowadays everyone has a phone in their pocket.


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## nene (Jul 23, 2015)

Update no response from owner


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Their conscience obviously got the better of them.


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

Must be a bad feeling, even with nothing to hide. 

I do a walk around customers cars and use a tick sheet. However, particulary dirty cars can be hard to spot some scratches and dents.

Should have gone straight to look at the damage. Unless you have a unit then make the extra effort to go to them. I think you'd know in the bottom of your belly if you might have caused the scratch. 

As Kev said, you can normally tell fresh damage, look for dust, paint transfer, scores. Etc. old scratches are often not very white too, even if they've been polished.

Good luck.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Guitarjon said:


> I do a walk around customers cars and use a tick sheet. However, particulary dirty cars can be hard to spot some scratches and dents.


As someone else mentioned you have to be careful doing this. Rather than reducing risk you may be INCREASING risk.

If/when you miss something at inspection time, and damage is later seen (by you further into the process or by the customer on collection) the customer kindly asks to see the sheet YOU signed off and the damage is not noted you could be on the hook for fixing it.

A slightly related point, a friend and I hired a Sagaris for a long weekend, when we returned it we were told the inspection would be done after they transported the car back to HQ. We kindly said this was not agreeable and it would have to be done before we left, anything could happen in that time after we left.


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