# Snow Foam ... How to!



## bassologist

HI Guys

I see a lot of people asking how to get the right ratio when it comes to snow foam, for this experiment i will be using Bilt Hamber Auto Foam, my personal choice, as it simply fantastic & customer care is second to none !!

Following this guide will help you get the right % at the car, it will take about 45 mins to do in total, but once done you'll be happy in knowing u have to right measurement

Bilt Hamber rec 4% at the car

Things you will need

25 Litre plastic drum

1 litre measuring jug

Permanent marker

Using the measuring jug, fill the 25 litre container 1 litre at a time, then mark each litre incriment with the perm marker, until you have this










It takes about 10 mins to do.

Once that is done, set up your power washer and fit the HD snow foam lance, fill the lance bottle with 1 litre of water and fire the lance into the container as shown below until the snow foam lance bottle is empty .. DO NOT use snow foam as shown in the picture, i forgot to take this pic and done it AFTER i had worked out my correct percentage

My lance was set to min










I recorded 17 litres in total 1 litre from the lance and 16 from the mains supply through the pressure washer.

Heres the maths behind it, ive made it very easy as i know percentages can be a real pain to work out

you want to know how many millilitres of Auto foam to add in the lance bottle, so you need to break down the total litres into millilitres/ml

1 Litre = 1000 ml

Times the total litres you get from firing the lance into in the 25 litre container by 1000

mine was 17 x 1000 = 17000ml

you now need 4% of this , so 17000 divide by 100 X 4 = 680

total amount needed 680ml + 320ml water in snow lance bottle

EDIT: the 1 litre mix is an example, you may find with 1 litre of mixed solution you will have enough to do 3-4 cars, this all depends on how quick your lance discharges and how quickly you cover the car, i used 500ml of solution and used it to cover the car, the intercooler, under the arches and to loosen very heavy brake dust on my alloys

so for 1/2 a litre fill in the bottle with half of the above 340ml +160ml water

break down of how to calculate

Litres of water in container after firing lance till bottle empty X 1000 divide by 100 X percentage of manufactures spec

Have fun and if you follow this guide you will end up like i did afterwards.... see below 










and to show how well this stuff cleans, even the wheels came up great










Happy Snow Foaming

John

PS maybe one of the mods would like to make this sticky for new members


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## Ormy

Good job :thumb:


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## rorton

great post, thanks, but does this seem like a lot of product?

using a 1 litre bottle on the lance, your putting 700ml of product in, close to 2/3 of the bottle filled with product. 

Consider the container is 5 liters, this only gives you 7 washes out of a 5 liter container, which @ £15 seems excessive to me?


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## 94Luke

rorton said:


> Consider the container is 5 liters, this only gives you 7 washes out of a 5 liter container, which @ £15 seems excessive to me?


yeah, i thought this too. I understand the maths behind, but i thought the norm was about 1-300ml in the lance + rest with warm water


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## bassologist

its a guide to work out the mixture guys, some lances may differ, hence measuring, although my calculations said 680ml foam and 320 water .. i enough left to do a 2nd car, which is why i added the 1/2 amount .. so 14 washes for me, but if it gets the grit and other paintwork damaging bits off my car before i wash, then its worth every penny as i wont have to have the paint corrected very often


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## cheezemonkhai

To be fair I put 1" in the bottom of the HD and then topped it off with water and did a medium sized car with 1/3rd of the bottle and it was a nice thick foam too


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## Avanti

I'm not sure the maths is right, you need to know the flow rate of the machine and what the lance dispenses detergent at.
Set up the machine and fill the foam bottle with water . Run the washer for a minute with the water and after a minute , measure how much water is left in the lance bottle. You should be able to cover a vehicle in a minute or less , so depending on the flow rate of the machine 100-300ml product should be sufficient for each car wash.


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## bassologist

Avanti, the maths are correct bud, i run them past Pete @ Bilt Hamber prior to posting, its the cleaning power people should be interested in, not how much foam it produces, 4% is bilt hambers specs, which i followed to a T the flow rate is in the post too bud ... i recorded 17 litres .. 1 litre from the lance and 16 from the mains ... 16;1 ratio for me, id like to see what others get as id bet the figures will all be different, mainly due to varying mains pressures, different model pressure washers etc

i know i dont have 4000 odd posts, but i do take this seriously and research things in depth


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## Avanti

I was not challenging your test, 
just to my maths at 4% mix

4%* flow rate of the machine should give the quantity to use, saying that I do not have a fully blown foam lance but 300ml of any product (most of the time much less) is all that is necessary to clean a car. I still have the sample of BH auto wash and 5ml in the bottle will get rid of a weeks worth of traffic dirt on my car. :thumb:


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## arcdef

i will do this with the karcher lancer Saturday afternoon and see how different it is, good guide btw


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## cheezemonkhai

It doesn't foam up at all in the karcher lance.

If you want foam in that you will need at least 2/3rds of a bottle of BH if not neat BH to get it to foam.


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## bassologist

Avanti

Sorry mate . i miss understood what you said in your first post, im sure most people would be able to use 300ml of the mixed solution if not less, to foam the car, i used a fair bit, 1 probably because its a new gadget and wanted to get a good clean and 2 because i foamed everything inc wheel arches (saves me time as the car has been lowered 2" so it means jacking the car up to get my arm in) :wall:


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## bassologist

arcdef said:


> i will do this with the karcher lancer Saturday afternoon and see how different it is, good guide btw


Arcdef,

i havnt tried this test on the karcher lance, be interesting to see your results, ive heard snow foam doesnt work too well on the karcher lance, it could be something as silly as the bottle not releasing enough foam into the mix process.. maybe they can be modded?

the test should tell us this by the final mix ratio


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## cheezemonkhai

I personally think it doesn't put enough air into the mix to be fair,


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## Sav

Just ordered this stuff the other day but I’m using my Gil with it. 


Do you think I should add a squirt of Megs Hyper as I have been doing with the snow foam I’ve been using or just the BH Stuff in a small amount?


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## PJS

Actually, there is a slight discrepancy in the maths above - you're diluting the solution before you work the 4% out.
As you've measured the lance to operate on a 16:1 ratio, then for every 1L of solution, there's 16L of water.
So, what you should be doing is using 16000x0.04 to give 640ml of neat product in the lance.
That's the correct dosage to work with, and the warm water you're adding to aid the foam to work at it's most effective, would really need to come in the form of water drawn/fed to the power washer, not the lance.

Try 320mls next time, and no additional water to see the difference.


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## PJS

Sav said:


> Just ordered this stuff the other day but I'm using my Gil with it.
> 
> Do you think I should add a squirt of Megs Hyper as I have been doing with the snow foam I've been using or just the BH Stuff in a small amount?


Oops! I've very bad news for you - it'll be a waste of effort and money.
I tested the foam with a Foamer and manually pressurised sprayer with adjustable output, and the latter was ****-poor, and the Foamer took too much product to meet the 4% PIR, and didn't sit on the vertical panels for anywhere close to the required dwell time - so the product was ineffective.

Whilst BH can do a low pressure version, they've already done a few tests of their own, and found the resultant product doesn't come up to their exacting standards, so it's been dropped.
A pity, as there's a lot of potential users who'll have to make do with what they've been currently using, or switch to a PW and lance if they want to make use of this product.

In your case, and like myself for the moment, the only fallback is to use a regular sprayer with Surfex HD (AF is loosely based on SHD) at 3-5% solution (which is dead easy to do compared with working out your lance's mix ratio) and pre-treating the car before hitting it with the foamer solution of whatever shampoo you use, or a bucket solution.

If you've not yet received it, call Pete/Jane at the office, or wherever you've ordered from, and ask them to cancel it. Get the SHD instead, and a £2.50 sprayer from the garden isle in Tesco - add hot water and job done!

Works a treat on bug splats too, as you can read on another thread in Wash & Clay.


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## PJS

cheezemonkhai said:


> I personally think it doesn't put enough air into the mix to be fair,


What doesn't, the Karcher lance?


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## Sav

PJS said:


> Oops! I've very bad news for you - it'll be a waste of effort and money.


Aaaaaaaaaa crap just sent Cancel E-mail but will phone as well when i get up. looks a great product as well.

thanks for the heads up mate.:thumb:


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## cheezemonkhai

PJS said:


> What doesn't, the Karcher lance?


Yeah.

I had about 1" of solution in a 1L HD bottle and it foamed very well and cleaned very well too.

Honestly if you have a karcher lance, put 5-10ml of Autowash in the yellow bottle and foam the car and leave it to sit while you fill up the bucket with AW.

That bottle is fine for creating a prewash, but not for a touch free clean due to the lack of dwell time.

It probably foams up more than the gilmor too as I could get thick foam from it with normal shampoos.


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## bassologist

Sorry PJS i totaly disagree with you there, Pete's recommendation for Auto Foam is 4% by volume, volume being the total amount discharged from the lance nozzle ie: 17 litres from my test (this may vary with other people due to mains pressure / Lance setting / model pressure washer used etc, from the test i now know that for every 16 litres i will use 1 litre from the lance bottle or 16:1, therefore if i passed 4 litres ( 1/4 of original ) from the mains through the lance i would use 250ml of mixed solution from the lance bottle, giving me a total 4250ml discharched through the lance nozzle x 0.04 which gives 170ml of neat auto foam + 80ml of water to give you the 250ml x4 and you get the original calculation i started with, i run these figures past Pete prior to posting my original post and he agrees with me on this
680ml may sound a lot of neat auto foam, but it all comes down to how quick you apply an even coat over the car/size of the car, some people may find they only use 250ml of the mixed solution, or like me 500ml, but then i like to use it for cleaning my arches & wheels as the car is lowered 2" and its a pain keep jacking the car up just to clean them, plus i have massive oversized grooved and drilled front disks which create tons on dust so i like to give the alloys a good foam which makes cleaning them an absolute pleasure and well worth the extra foam 



PJS said:


> Actually, there is a slight discrepancy in the maths above - you're diluting the solution before you work the 4% out.
> As you've measured the lance to operate on a 16:1 ratio, then for every 1L of solution, there's 16L of water.
> So, what you should be doing is using 16000x0.04 to give 640ml of neat product in the lance.
> That's the correct dosage to work with, and the warm water you're adding to aid the foam to work at it's most effective, would really need to come in the form of water drawn/fed to the power washer, not the lance.
> 
> Try 320mls next time, and no additional water to see the difference.


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## PJS

Yes, you're right, now that I've stopped having brain farts!
I can see where the water in the lance container comes in.
In reference to the 320 mls, (340 + 120) that was to suggest an amount to use to make the product more economical, since it was suggested 1L of solution is typically often enough to do 2 cars.
But if you're not that concerned about the economics of it, then it's immaterial.


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## bassologist

i only used the litre full once bud, just to see how much i used. now i know i will be mixing the required ammount each time, but i tend to do the mrs car at the same time


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## PJS

Ah, thought you were somehow using the full 1L on just your own inc. the arches, etc.


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## dominic84

Excellent guide :thumb:


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## Avanti

PJS said:


> Ah, thought you were somehow using the full 1L on just your own inc. the arches, etc.


What you need to do guys is time how long it takes to cover the areas you want to clean using the power washer and foam lance, as the solution is coming out is in a spray form you may find you are using much less than you 1st thought.
16 washes from a 5 litre product is a minimum I would expect.


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## dominic84

Although this guide has shown that you need to use more product than people have previously assumed in reality even though you will be using more product you will be achieving a much better result.

I personally think 16 washes that actually remove dirt are better than 70 washes that don't actually do anything (as per the does snow foam work threads).


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## Avanti

dominic84 said:


> Although this guide has shown that you need to use more product than people have previously assumed in reality even though you will be using more product you will be achieving a much better result.
> 
> I personally think 16 washes that actually remove dirt are better than 70 washes that don't actually do anything (as per the does snow foam work threads).


I agree, I don't have snow foam , I do have snow wax which I know works along with many other products, saying that the swarfega vehicle wash (until BH) was the most thirsty product to use. But I am surprised if you have to use so much BH autofoam as the wash is very effective in the powerwasher, going on the original post 8 washes for £15 does not seem quite right


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## bassologist

Avanti 

i use about 500ml (340ml auto foam 160ml water) of the mixed solution to do the car, intercooler, wheel arches and a good heavy foam on the alloys, which will give me about 14 washes from a 5l drum , i think 20/25 washes is possible, depends on how quick you cover the car and to what extremes you use it , at the 4% i found it shifted bird droppings, heavy brake dust etc , which makes cleaning so much easier and less risk of damaging the car, well worth it IMO and im sure if rinsed with filtered water after it could de used as a quick no touch wash, which is great if you have busy weekends like i do


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## Avanti

bassologist said:


> Avanti
> 
> i use about 500ml (340ml auto foam 160ml water) of the mixed solution to do the car, intercooler, wheel arches and a good heavy foam on the alloys, which will give me about 14 washes from a 5l drum , i think 20/25 washes is possible, depends on how quick you cover the car and to what extremes you use it , at the 4% i found it shifted bird droppings, heavy brake dust etc , which makes cleaning so much easier and less risk of damaging the car, well worth it IMO and im sure if rinsed with filtered water after it could de used as a quick no touch wash, which is great if you have busy weekends like i do


I get the impression you think I am dismissing the product , I am not! Even though I have not tried it 20-25 washes seems more realistic.
I know BH make some great products .
Trouble with many 5 litre products is they come with little or no real instructions, 
eg set detergent feed to 1 or minimum, or see power washer instructions (which say see detergent instructions) .
Just look how many posts have been on this forum with how much product should I use? 
It wouldn't harm the mfrs to place the info on the label, AG PM3 and SVW , clover come with 'useful' information and also for the karcher products on thir international website.


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## bassologist

not at all bud, sorry if it came across that way, was just reasuring yourself and others that more than 8 washes are capable



Avanti said:


> I get the impression you think I am dismissing the product , I am not! Even though I have not tried it 20-25 washes seems more realistic.
> I know BH make some great products .
> Trouble with many 5 litre products is they come with little or no real instructions,
> eg set detergent feed to 1 or minimum, or see power washer instructions (which say see detergent instructions) .
> Just look how many posts have been on this forum with how much product should I use?
> It wouldn't harm the mfrs to place the info on the label, AG PM3 and SVW , clover come with 'useful' information and also for the karcher products on thir international website.


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## Sav

Sav said:


> Just ordered this stuff the other day but I'm using my Gil with it.
> 
> Do you think I should add a squirt of Megs Hyper as I have been doing with the snow foam I've been using or just the BH Stuff in a small amount?


Just cancelled my order but credit due it was no problem, as its no use in the Foamaster II. Have to find a new foam now and this stuff looked the dogd as well.

Oh well thanks for the info on it being wrong for me! .


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## PJS

Give Autobrite Direct's SSF a run out - without adding anything bar water.
I found it pretty darn good as a pre-wash and as a shampoo in its own right, which it is anyway.


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## 1996a6v6

Good interesting post


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## Sav

Autobrite Direct's SSF looks great but they want £7.63 postage for the 5lt, so think I'll have another look. Elite can post Ultimate Snow Foam - 5 Litres for £3.79 postage


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## bassologist

Update: had a little test this weekend to find out how many washes i could get from the 1 litre pre mixed solution (680ml Auto Foam 320ml water ) , now ive mastered the art of the snow lance .. i managed 3 washes with about 100ml left over .. which is roughly 200ml of neat solution for every wash .. 22/25 washes obtainable from 5 litres of Bilt Hamber auto foam .. which is pretty damn reasonable for the cleaning power and cost


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## Neil_S

Useful little guide, I've stickied it :thumb:


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## vectragsi3.2

thanks for this handy to know thanks


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## Guest

It would be interesting to know what the cleaning effect of BH AF is at 2% or 1%. I'm very impressed that it removed a significant amount of brake dust at 4%. I have been using Autobrites SSF at the recommended dilution of 80:1 (1.25%) and that hardly touches brake dust.

I currently use BH Surfex HD at 20:1 (5%) through a pressurised sprayer for my pre-wash. I find it very effective but still does not touch brake dust at this dilution.


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## PJS

Try it for yourself and see - but 4-5% is the recommended PIR Bilt Hamber suggest for regular LSP's, up to 8% if using Autobalm.

If you were able to pressurise the SHD more, you'd find it foams very well, and at that strength would make mince meat of the brake dust, after power rinsing only.
Up the strength to 10% and see if that makes a difference - but it still might need agitating with a wheel brush.


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## Tigrances

Nice Post!, wondred what the correct mix was....

If i snow foamed in the street like most of you seem to do i'd be shot. :lol: but im very tempted in trying it out. certainly cleans up the cars nicely and makes life a lot easier. dont want my neighbours getting any bright idea's though.


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## JonnyG

Thanks for the guide ... that's a good method of finding the dilution rate of your own lance :thumb:

My 25 litre container is still half full of Turlte Wax, so may be a while before I can do it 

It would be useful if people could post what sort of dilution rate they are getting with their lance and jetwash. I suspect mine is nothing like 16:1

Eg Autobrite Foam Lance + Karcher 2.99 = 16:1 (or whatever)


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## Luke667

Goddam you guys are usin alot of product!

200ml in your foam lance??

I use Hyper wash or Elite Snow Foam and I never put more than an inch in the foam lance, top it up with warm water, and even on the thickest foam setting, still have enough to cover my X-Trail complete with arches and wheels!


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## trykkertor

Same as you Luke 667.
I've tried both with the procedure at the start of this thread.
That gave me 400ml foam, topped with 600ml water.
Then tried to just fill up 1 inch in the lance, and rest with water.
I can't notice any difference in the foam, and both dillutions work great, so why waste product.
So an inch in the bottle seems to be ok.


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## trykkertor

I think the procedure on the first page of this thread is a bit to much work compared to what I did.
I mean, come on. Having a 25Litre bottle.
Marking up EVERY litre.
What's the point?

I have an ordinary bucket with lines on it for each litre pre printed in it.
My procedure took me under 10 minutes total.

1. Get the pressurewasher with the lance ready.
2. Fill up the lance, and dial in as explainded (fully clockwise)
3. Fire the lance in to the bucket.
4. When lance empty, read of lines in bucket. Mine was then at 12 litre line.
5. Do the math, and finished.

If you don't have a bucket with lines, still no problem.
Fire the lance in to the bucket. When lancebottle is empty, put a funnel in an empty sodabottle. (Like a 2 litre Coca Cola).
Messure up how many litres went in to the bucket, and you do the math.

Having a 25 litre jug is not necessary.
Having to draw up 25 litre lines is not necesarry.
Just fire away, and messure up afterwards.
And just fire away in a bucket. No need for a big bottle sideways.

Thas just my 2 cents on the topic.


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## Gary-360

Sod that; 1" in a litre bottle for me too, I can do 2 washes with that amount at 150bar and A R Chem lance.


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## MaDMaXX

I got about 12.5 litres to just over 900mm in the bottle to empty.

Valetpro's site states "Foam lance directions: Use 25ml to 50ml per car, dilute to suit foam system."

Which is kinda useless, we could do with a %mix at the car as BH are giving. But anyway, if we use the BH mix of 4%, mine calculates as 500ml foam to 500ml water in the bottle. That's really concentrated! :shock:

I think on the setting i have it, i could do two cars, but the ratio is still going to be 1:1 which is stupid.

In this case, it says from 25ml to 50ml per car, i nearly used a whole litre on one car with the mix on max. That would mean i was using way too much on the car, by twice as much at the strongest recommended mix.

On this basis, 500ml would be way to much anyway, you could use 500ml of product, mixed 50/50 as per the test i just indicated and you'd be using 500ml per car instead of Valetpro's 25ml-50ml so what's going on?


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## PJS

What's going on, is that you need to ask each supplier what the PIR is of the product they supply.

Alternatively, let the car get absolutely manking, then make a small amount of solution - enough to do each side, at the two differing concentrations, and see which one after 6-8 mins has more discolouration when it falls to the ground.

Also, if the setting of the foam results in too thick a foam (at higher concentration), then you'll need to redo the maths at a different position so you have the same consistency at both strengths.
That could result in 250-300ml being the required amount - presuming 4-5% is an industry standard rather than what one manufacturer has designed theirs for.
To be honest though, if you mention PIR to the various suppliers of foam, they'd probably look at you as if you'd horns on your head - so don't be too surprised to find they've not got a clue as to what you're actually asking.
And even who makes the foam for them, if not just buying any old thing, and relabelling it, doesn't know either what the PIR should be for it, unless they've tested scientifically with the light box, like BH did when devising theirs.


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## MaDMaXX

Well i'd hope that Valetpro would know as it's their business:/


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## PJS

They don't make the product - it's bought it either to their spec or what spec they've tested from the manufacturer which works how they prefer.
You can but ask, and see what the reply is, but just don't be too expectant.


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## _daveR

Just had my first play with some Valet Pro SF and my CYC lance and had a try with a few different dilutions.

First attempt, 100ml of SF with 900ml of hot water. Didn't get a very thick foam and it was too "runny". Also, with the lance set fully to '+' it got through the contents of the bottle in no time at all. 
I stopped with half left and added another 150ml of SF and topped with hot water, so this was approx 200ml of foam & 800ml water. Results were a much better foam and playing with the dial on the lance found the best setting was around 1/2 to 2/3 toward '+'.

I note that anymore than 2/3-3/4 open and it empties the bottle VERY quickly, is this normal? 

I guess the art is to balance your concerntration and dial setting to get the best result? Next time I will try 250ml with 750 water and try to use a lower setting on the dial.


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## PJS

Yes, more + = lower ratio of water:solution.
Depending on how quickly you move around the car and distance stood from it, you're right, finding the right combination of lance setting with solution strength is what will be required.
Most tend just to whack it up to fully +, and dash round.
So long as the correct PIR is achieved, full coverage of the vehicle, and consistency of the foam, you should be getting the best result.


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## MaDMaXX

I found that it used a fair bit too, but after i'd messed around on one vehicle, i set it to what i thought would be good and tested it on my main car which was dry.

100ml or so of valletpro and then topped up with 800-900ml of warm water. Set dial to either max or just backed off a bit from max (see picture) and went round the car, was enough to get it all done including double dossing the wheel's/arches by the time i'd emptied the bottle. Means i don't have to mix less or have spare left over, foamed up perfectly.


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## Ross

300ml for a liter seems abit much to me I use around 60ml


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## MaDMaXX

Yeah, i'm using 100ml making up the litre, but i'm going to try the recommended 40-50ml in the litre as i know it uses that much on the car in one go now.


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## _daveR

RosswithaOCD said:


> 300ml for a liter seems abit much to me I use around 60ml


What sort of foam do you end up with though? How long does it cling for?


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## AL_B

Hi guys,

Great thread, and thanks to the original poster for going to the effort of working this out. But I'm still scratching my head. :wall:

My BH Auto Foam arrived today and I've been trying to work out the mix ratio I'm going to need. I haven't measured the timings of my PW + Foam Lance (AB/CYC Standard Lance 500ml Red Dial) yet, but thought I'd do a template spreadsheet first.

I'm a bit confused by some people using the product neat and some using it pre-diluted in the mix bottle.

My PW (K2.97MB) has a flow rate of 340ltr/hr or in other words 5.7ltr/min. Assuming that is constant for calculations (for my PW only, yours will be different).

Now, my foam lance has a simple dial. Lets say I set that dial to minimum. Surely at that minimum setting the lance will mix in the product from the mix bottle at a *constant* rate. Like wise, turn the dial to max, it will mix in at a *constant* maximum rate.

As shown earlier in the thread, at a given setting, you can measure how much liquid in total (water and 'pretend' foam) has been output. From that you can work out the ratio of water : product, at that setting. That ratio will be pretty much constant at that setting, do you agree?

So for example at minium, it might mix in at 2%, at max it might mix in at 8%, and in the middle it might do 4%.

I'm probably wrong here, but surely all I have to do is find out the *exact 4% position* on the lance dial, put XYZ ml of foam in the mix bottle and 'bobs-yer-uncle' 4% at the car(?). XYZ ml is irrelevant, as the mix rate is constant, it only affects how long the mix lasts. Or am I missing something here? :wall:

Cheers

AL


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## AL_B

Think I understand why you guys are diluting.

If set to minimum, the output rate of the pw+lance could be 6% say, that is too strong, so pre-dilute to ensure 4%. Correct?

AL


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## PJS

The point of the maths, is such that the total solution (the diluted mix in the bottle AND the water provided by the pw) is 4-5% (up to 8% for AB users) as it leaves the nozzle/when it hits the panel.
So, if your lance setting was a mix:water ratio of 1:10, then for every 10L of water, 1L of mix is fed into the stream of water.
Therefore, your mix solution would be 40-50% strength, which is further diluted as it's sucked up, to 4-5% total strength.
This is the right strength for AF to preserve your LSP. If you go higher, you run the likelihood of stripping/affecting the LSP such that you'll need to reapply it again.


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## steviewevie

This is a brilliant post, thanks !

Just did the test myself with a CYC lance and a B&Q Mac4 PW. I had to set the foam lance to max, because I tried it on min or slightly higher and it was taking an absolute age, such was the small volume of foam lance liquid that it was using (would have needed way more neat foam than would fit in a 1L foam lance bottle !).

As it was, on max setting, I used approx 14.5L of water, i.e. 1L from foam lance and 13.5L from the mains.

Now I'm just waiting for my BH Auto-foam to arrive, and when it does I know what ratio to use in the bottle, brilliant ! Then I just need to experiment a bit to find out how much I actually use on my car, so I don't end up wasting it.


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## PJS

500ml in the bottle should be enough solution to do a car fully, inc wheels and arches, but leave them til last.


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## trykkertor

PJS said:


> So, if your lance setting was a mix:water ratio of 1:10, then for every 10L of water, 1L of mix is fed into the stream of water.
> Therefore, your mix solution would be 40-50% strength, ........


WHAT!?!?!

How can 1L together with 10L represent 40-50% ????

1L of foam with 10L of water gives approx 9%.


----------



## PJS

Try re-reading the post again.
The lance setting may be 1:10 ratio (1/10th effectively)
Lance solution needs to be 10 times the strength required at the output - hence should be 40-50% strength.
Hardly rocket science if you bother to read and absorb the information presented, properly.
But as you didn't, I see how you've got yourself in a bit of a cafuffle.


----------



## AL_B

Is this what you mean PJS...

*PW+Lance Output* 
water(ltr): 10	
mix bottle(ltr): 1

Ratio: 10:1 
Ratio as a percentage: 9.090909091% = 1/(10+1)*100

Total Output (ml): 11000ml

*Required Ratio at Car* 
4 %

*How much Product in mix bottle* 
mix bottle size: 1000

4% of Total Output: 440

This means	440	ml of product and 560	ml of water in the mix bottle.

As a %:	44%

Does that look about right?

AL


----------



## PJS

Looks about right without doing the maths.
As above, when you measure your output at the lance setting chosen, this will provide the mix ratio, which will let you know how much the solution should be of foam and water top-up.
Since most people tend to get away with 500ml for a complete coverage, you simply divide the numbers by 2, or use 500ml in the lance bottle to begin with.
Either way, you end up with the correct dosage for the product being used - whatever the manufacturer/supplier has stipulated it as.
In BH's case, that's 4-5%, which I'm presuming is pre-defined, but could be theirs alone, and others have different PIRs for whatever reason.
So don't get hung up on the 4-5% unless using Autofoam.


----------



## MaDMaXX

Yeah, if i use about 900-1000ml per car on a certain setting on my lance and i use 100ml in the mix.
I use PH neutral so that is technically 4x the amount they recommend.


----------



## AL_B

Thanks to everyone for their help on this.

At the weekend I timed my PW+Lance at a variety of settings, and punched the data into my spreadsheet. I eventually found that on the standard AB/CYC Lance (with the red dial), at 1/8 of a turn down from maximum, it produced the same ratio as the Original Post (17000:1). Meaning in my 500ml bottle I put in 340ml BH Auto Foam, and 160 ml water. This was enough to foam my car twice! And there was still some left over, about 50ml.

I was happy with the foam produced, much thicker and stuck to the panel longer than what I'd previously been using, Meg Shampoo Plus.

I have to say though, I was disappointed with the cleaning ability of BH AutoFoam. Certainly on my car at least. It had not been washed for 1 month and had a good layer of traffic film and dirt on it. Two foams later and to be quite honest, it looked no cleaner. (I have before and after pics, will post at some stage). 

On my wifes car the results were better, as it was cleaner to start with. Probably just 1-2 weeks of grime. Not sure if I'd be happy with using MF drying towels on it though, as a quick touch test on a wet panel did reveal some dirt on my finger. But I could have probably got away with blow-drying the car with the leaf blower.

So I guess my conculsion is, if you manage to foam the car once a week and not let the grime build up, these types of foaming products probably work quite well. If you leave it too long, then there's probably nothing strong enough to remove the dirt without contact. (unless you guys know of anything)

I will certainly continue to use the BH AF, as it foamed much better and stuck to the car longer.

Cheers

AL


----------



## MaDMaXX

I get much the same results, it certainly isn't a touchless wash, i'm going for the fact my car hasn't been waxed in forever (i know  ) so i think once that's been done it should perform much better.


----------



## trykkertor

Me too.
Foaming looks like the the bits.
But no cleaning action here either.
And I'm foaming double up each second week.


----------



## AL_B

MaDMaXX said:


> I get much the same results, it certainly isn't a touchless wash, i'm going for the fact my car hasn't been waxed in forever (i know  ) so i think once that's been done it should perform much better.


I wouldn't bet on it mate. Mine had just been clayed, paint corrected and a coat of Zyml Royale on it only 1 month ago, and the dirt/traffic film did not budge.

I was really hoping this would be the dogs danglies of pre-washing for winter, removing almost everything before the contact wash. Oh well. 

AL


----------



## MaDMaXX

So what's the deal, why are we doing this?


----------



## fethead

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is BH says 4%, the mathes work out like this - 

1000ml bottle.

4% of 100ml = 4ml,
times by 10(10, 100mls in 1000ml)
You therefore get 10 times 4ml= 40mls of foam product and the rest water.

Richard:thumb:


----------



## superbully

AL_B said:


> I wouldn't bet on it mate. Mine had just been clayed, paint corrected and a coat of Zyml Royale on it only 1 month ago, and the dirt/traffic film did not budge.
> 
> I was really hoping this would be the dogs danglies of pre-washing for winter, removing almost everything before the contact wash. Oh well.
> 
> AL


so which foam are we talking about here? the BiltH stuff or the PH one?
I'm going to start equipping myself for snow foam, maybe go later to get a karcher from my local store but will have to order the spray lance/bottles off here as well as the foam.

So.... which one should i go for? I'm also trying to shift winter road grime and don't mind foaming twice, just want to have foam that actually does something! Which one should i buy?


----------



## Ross

The Blit hamber Autofoam


----------



## superbully

RosswithaOCD said:


> The Blit hamber Autofoam


What ?? the one they were talking about not shifting dirt?

or that's the one you recommend I buy?


----------



## Ross

I dose shift dirt


----------



## Avanti

fethead said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but is BH says 4%, the mathes work out like this -
> 
> 1000ml bottle.
> 
> 4% of 100ml = 4ml,
> times by 10(10, 100mls in 1000ml)
> You therefore get 10 times 4ml= 40mls of foam product and the rest water.
> 
> Richard:thumb:


4% at the nozzle, so this is how you work it, work out how long it takes to cover the car using your washer (but if you assume 60secs) then 6000*4% =240ml in the bottle of product topped with water. should see you about right.


----------



## AL_B

RosswithaOCD said:


> I dose shift dirt


Not much in my experience mate.

It all depends on how clean the car already is. But in my experience, on a properly dirty car, BH Auto Foam did not shift the dirt to the extent I was expecting.

I'm going to stick with it, as it should, hopefully, lift/loosen some of the dirt. Maybe I was expecting too much from it. 

Edit:

Having read:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=82590&page=5

I must be doing something wrong. So many folk say it shifts the dirt. I will give BH a call, sounds like they have very good customer service.

Cheers

AL


----------



## wrx man

I used Valetpro PH neutral for the first time yesterday and although fun and very entertaining to see the neighbours faces it didn't really shift any dirt at all...


----------



## MaDMaXX

I don't find it shifts dirt, but i do find that it works as a prewash and makes it very easy to shift the baked on dirt.


----------



## Jochen

I recently bought a foam lance and I find it great fun. But I didn't bought it only to have fun, it needs to be functional! I used it a few times now with regulat shampoo (my favo Turtle Wax shampoo) and it foams pretty well. There is some cleaning ability but not wow. I was thinking of upgrading to Ph snow foam but as I read these reviews ... 

Does a snow foam has better cleaning abilities then a regular shampoo? Otherwise I just stick with shampoo for my own car and a mix of TFR+APC+shampoo for details...


----------



## Guest

How long do you all spend rinsing with a p/w afterwards? I take about 10mins just flushing the pre-wash and loosened dirt away. I spend more time on the lower areas of the bodywork than the upper.

Using the above method, I have reached a point where all solid debris is rinsed away and only a greasy film is left on the car, which is removed via a TBM wash. I will say this is with using BH's Surfex HD as a pre-spray but my understanding is that their Auto Foam works even better.


----------



## Jochen

Phisp said:


> How long do you all spend rinsing with a p/w afterwards? I take about 10mins just flushing the pre-wash and loosened dirt away. I spend more time on the lower areas of the bodywork than the upper.
> 
> Using the above method, I have reached a point where all solid debris is rinsed away and only a greasy film is left on the car, which is removed via a TBM wash. I will say this is with using BH's Surfex HD as a pre-spray but my understanding is that their Auto Foam works even better.


I have the same experience. It removes the solid debris but not the film.
When you would soake the car in just water, wouldn't that have the same effect? Or just PW it down thoroughly? I'll have to do some testing...


----------



## Guest

Jochen said:


> I have the same experience. It removes the solid debris but not the film.
> When you would soake the car in just water, wouldn't that have the same effect? Or just PW it down thoroughly? I'll have to do some testing...


I can answer that for you  A thorough p/w is nowhere near as effective as using a pre-spray or pre-foam. Give it a try and see :thumb:


----------



## wyliss

I plan on getting some Bilt Hamber this week. My foam lance bottle capacity is 1L. How much BH do I need to put in?, is it 640mL?.
I've used Auto Raechems in the past and only used 1" !!! LOL
:thumb:


----------



## PJS

dibbs26 said:


> I plan on getting some Bilt Hamber this week. My foam lance bottle capacity is 1L. How much BH do I need to put in?, is it 640mL?.
> I've used Auto Raechems in the past and only used 1" !!! LOL
> :thumb:


Do the maths - it removes the guesswork. Don't be lazy!


----------



## PJS

Phisp said:


> How long do you all spend rinsing with a p/w afterwards? I take about 10mins just flushing the pre-wash and loosened dirt away. I spend more time on the lower areas of the bodywork than the upper.
> 
> Using the above method, I have reached a point where all solid debris is rinsed away and only a greasy film is left on the car, which is removed via a TBM wash. I will say this is with using BH's Surfex HD as a pre-spray but my understanding is that their Auto Foam works even better.


Agreed, and again, I'll reiterate here what I've said in other threads recently - if you can rinse using warm water through the pw or just a spray head on the hose, you'll achieve a better result.

AF is related somewhat to SHD - a sort of hybrid SHD-AW, iirc from speaking with BH when the trial sample arrived.


----------



## tazzy-lee

wow this is great thanks


----------



## REFLECTS

Don't mean to be a defeatist but i just put 1" of SF then fill the bottle with warm water and its a nice thick foam that drags off the mank.


----------



## wyliss

Right here goes, I've done the maths and work (which didnt take long really) to hopefully get my 4% at the panel.
I recorded 9.5L from the mains and also 1L from the lance. Total 10.5L

So, 10.5 x 1000 =10,500mL.
I need 4% of this so, 10500 / 100x4 = 420

Total amount of BH AF = 420mL and 580mL of water.

What do we think peeps ?
:thumb:

Incidentally for anybody else who has the same Karcher as me here is the model no, it will save you the time and effort.

Karcher K2.94M

Thanks


----------



## MaDMaXX

You'd need to have the same lance at the same setting (i assume max) as well.


----------



## SPECKY

I use auto Reachem .....
85 mls in bottle top up with warm water to 3/4's full.... ish
Its enough for our Mini's (no salt on car)
I use about 120mls if they're in "Dirty bum club" LMFAO !!!!!


----------



## Guest

dibbs26 said:


> Right here goes, I've done the maths and work (which didnt take long really) to hopefully get my 4% at the panel.
> I recorded 9.5L from the mains and also 1L from the lance. Total 10.5L
> 
> So, 10.5 x 1000 =10,500mL.
> I need 4% of this so, 10500 / 100x4 = 420
> 
> Total amount of BH AF = 420mL and 580mL of water.
> 
> What do we think peeps ?
> :thumb:
> 
> Incidentally for anybody else who has the same Karcher as me here is the model no, it will save you the time and effort.
> 
> Karcher K2.94M
> 
> Thanks


Correct :thumb:

Also, your lance on it's current setting dilutes at 9.5:1. As mentioned above, if you (or anyone else) has a different dial setting (or a different lance) then this dilution rate will change. My own lance dilutes at 5.5:1 on its max setting.

Out of interest, did you time how long it took to flow 10.5L through the lance?


----------



## Sierra Dan

my karcher flow rate is 330L per hour and i have a 1L snow foam lance how much of the snow foam stuff do i put into the snow foam lance?


----------



## rapidseven

After reading the guide, with all due respect I think its a little long winded.

Whats wrong with just filling the bottle that comes with the foam lance ?

Some of you guys really take things to the extreme when theres really no need sometimes.


----------



## wyliss

rapidseven said:


> After reading the guide, with all due respect I think its a little long winded.
> 
> Whats wrong with just filling the bottle that comes with the foam lance ?
> 
> Some of you guys really take things to the extreme when theres really no need sometimes.


The reason why it may seem a 'little long winded' to you is the fact the BH AF must be at 4-5% at the panel. If not you'll risk washing away all your waxes etc and time. 
Why not get some normal SF like the Valet Pro stuff then it will save you the hastle.
Taking things to the extreme is sometimes a necessity when you have a passion for making your car look outstanding. It really does pay off believe me!


----------



## rapidseven

I understand buddy, and agree to a certain extent, but regardless of my post count I have been correcting cars for over 10 years, I dont use the forum _that_ much as I have my own way and my own products which works for me.

And to be perfectly honest, I find a vast majority of posts being on the borderline of ridiculous if im allowed to say that.

You can never not have too much knowledge though, thats for certain :thumb:


----------



## wyliss

Agree the ridiculous comment, suppose its each to their own....:thumb:



rapidseven said:


> I understand buddy, and agree to a certain extent, but regardless of my post count I have been correcting cars for over 10 years, I dont use the forum _that_ much as I have my own way and my own products which works for me.
> 
> And to be perfectly honest, I find a vast majority of posts being on the borderline of ridiculous if im allowed to say that.
> 
> You can never not have too much knowledge though, thats for certain :thumb:


----------



## PJS

rapidseven said:


> After reading the guide, with all due respect I think its a little long winded.
> 
> Whats wrong with just filling the bottle that comes with the foam lance ?
> 
> Some of you guys really take things to the extreme when theres really no need sometimes.





dibbs26 said:


> The reason why it may seem a 'little long winded' to you is the fact the BH AF must be at 4-5% at the panel. If not you'll risk washing away all your waxes etc and time.





rapidseven said:


> I understand buddy, and agree to a certain extent, but regardless of my post count I have been correcting cars for over 10 years, I dont use the forum _that_ much as I have my own way and my own products which works for me.
> 
> And to be perfectly honest, I find a vast majority of posts being on the borderline of ridiculous if im allowed to say that.
> 
> You can never not have too much knowledge though, thats for certain :thumb:


Rapid - I have to question your motive here for making the initial comment, only then to say in reply, that you understand. 
If you understand the reason behind the methodology, then why are you knocking it?
The guide is just that - if it's too cumbersome or you're too lazy to bother following it, then that's fine. No-one is saying you HAVE to follow it, or else!
It's there for those who might not have been able to figure out how to achieve the recommended PIR percentage, but wanted to.

Like all things here on DW, the advice is freely given to help others make the most of their products, so they get the best results from their usage.
As with all freely given advice, one has the right to act upon it, or dismiss it partially/entirely, without any need to explain their reason for doing so.


----------



## Carl-H

I've not read through everything else (got to about the 5th page a few weeks back) so this may already have been mentioned. The reason he uses so much product is because he has set his lance to minimum. I would have though this would do more than 2 cars as I use less than half a litre on full per car but it depends who is using it. On the max setting I think he would need much less product.


----------



## Callu_M3

good guide


----------



## illyun

Excellent guide and a mine of useful info


----------



## [email protected]

Ok so I have read all 11 pages and I am still wondering at what setting do I have the +/- mixture wheel at. This wheel allows more or less of the 1 litre solution into the flow from the PW. I would had thought if I set the mixture to low when filling the litred marked container when I work out the maths it will tell me I need in excess of one litre of product to meet the required solution?

I have recently purchased a snow foam lance and got 1 litre of valet pro foam with the lance but so fair been unable to get the foam thick enough for it to stick to the vertical panels for much more than 30 seconds. I have tried 100ml, 200ml and today 300ml of product topped off with hot water. I am in a hard water area would this matter?


----------



## MaDMaXX

Hard water is fine, i'm also in one. When setting the measurement, just max the lance so it uses more of the mix.


----------



## chattan

Need to invest in a power washer first


----------



## Puntoboy

My Nilfisk C110 just achieved 16 litres.

So 16 + 1 litre in the lance = 17 litres. 

17 x 1000ml = 17000ml / 100 x 4 = 680ml of foam... I tried guessing the amount when I first used the lance (last week) as I didn't have a 25 litre container. I only used about an inch of foam and whilst the results were OK the foam didn't seem to cling to the panel. Fingers crossed I'll get better results today.


----------



## MaDMaXX

Er, that looks a lot, have you turned the lance mix up to max?


----------



## Puntoboy

MaDMaXX said:


> Er, that looks a lot, have you turned the lance mix up to max?


Well, it's what the original thread poster got from his PW.

He also said he set his lance to minimum, but that was taking ages to empty the bottle so I came back, re-read the whole thread and decided to try it on max.

Results were much much better. I'm completely impressed now.


























As you can see, I only used about one third of a bottle so enough for two more washes.


----------



## MaDMaXX

Hmm, i suppose if you only use such a small amount in total then the mix isn't that bad at that quantity.


----------



## ross-1888

being a newbie to the whole foaming experience ive just being using 500ml of foam to 500ml of water in my bottle and runing it ith the lance set to draw minimun product and its been working fine and i can usually get around 3-5 cars per bottle

great guide when i get a chance i will try this with mine. i have a Ryobi RPW 2200C Pressure Washer with a flow rate of 456l/hr so thats 7.6l per min


----------



## trykkertor

ross-1888 said:


> being a newbie to the whole foaming experience ive just being using 500ml of foam to 500ml of water in my bottle and runing it ith the lance set to draw minimun product and its been working fine and i can usually get around 3-5 cars per bottle


When I have used 500ml of foam from my storage, I will have covered at least 12-15 cars.
I'm under the impression that you use way to much foam.


----------



## SHare

I just found and had a read through this thread. It seems to me, with the volumes of snow foam being used and the max setting of the gun being used that surely you'd be better off putting it in the gun neat and using the minimum setting to achieve the right mix at the nozzle. It would be nice if the gun manufacturers could give us some indication of flow\mix rates that the snow guns give.


----------



## PJS

That is an alternative, one which some users have explored and stick with.


----------



## RP john

nice work!


----------



## calypso

pics are dead


----------



## PJS

Here they are - I'll see if a mod/admin can amend the OP for future viewings of this thread in its entirety.


----------



## JGrant1285

re-up of the images if possible please?

Thanks


----------



## Dublin Detailer

Excellent post - really helpful!!


----------



## Leemack

Edited - Repost below


----------



## Leemack

*I have got the pics in real size so i'll copy and paste the OP's thread so you can see it again :-*

HI Guys

I see a lot of people asking how to get the right ratio when it comes to snow foam, for this experiment i will be using Bilt Hamber Auto Foam, my personal choice, as it simply fantastic & customer care is second to none !!

Following this guide will help you get the right % at the car, it will take about 45 mins to do in total, but once done you'll be happy in knowing u have to right measurement

Bilt Hamber rec 4% at the car

Things you will need

25 Litre plastic drum

1 litre measuring jug

Permanent marker

Using the measuring jug, fill the 25 litre container 1 litre at a time, then mark each litre incriment with the perm marker, until you have this










It takes about 10 mins to do.

Once that is done, set up your power washer and fit the HD snow foam lance, fill the lance bottle with 1 litre of water and fire the lance into the container as shown below until the snow foam lance bottle is empty .. DO NOT use snow foam as shown in the picture, i forgot to take this pic and done it AFTER i had worked out my correct percentage

My lance was set to min










I recorded 17 litres in total 1 litre from the lance and 16 from the mains supply through the pressure washer.

Heres the maths behind it, ive made it very easy as i know percentages can be a real pain to work out

you want to know how many millilitres of Auto foam to add in the lance bottle, so you need to break down the total litres into millilitres/ml

1 Litre = 1000 ml

Times the total litres you get from firing the lance into in the 25 litre container by 1000

mine was 17 x 1000 = 17000ml

you now need 4% of this , so 17000 divide by 100 X 4 = 680

total amount needed 680ml + 320ml water in snow lance bottle

EDIT: the 1 litre mix is an example, you may find with 1 litre of mixed solution you will have enough to do 3-4 cars, this all depends on how quick your lance discharges and how quickly you cover the car, i used 500ml of solution and used it to cover the car, the intercooler, under the arches and to loosen very heavy brake dust on my alloys

so for 1/2 a litre fill in the bottle with half of the above 340ml +160ml water

break down of how to calculate

Litres of water in container after firing lance till bottle empty X 1000 divide by 100 X percentage of manufactures spec

Have fun and if you follow this guide you will end up like i did afterwards.... see below










and to show how well this stuff cleans, even the wheels came up great










Happy Snow Foaming

John


----------



## Grinnders

Newbie Alert :wave:

And to think I thought this snow foam was just fill and go. :wall:

Looks like I need to get my chemistry set out tomorrow! I was worried my PW was too powerful to allow the lance to mix enough of it in. I had results more like milk today than snow. :lol:

(Karcher 5.81+AutobriteHD+BH AF)


----------



## MaDMaXX

Can't say how many washes, but i just did 4 cars over the weekend with my Bilt Hamber, glad i have it, big difference and easy to get the salt off with.

I've had it since last spring, don't tend to use it in the summer, car never gets enough crap on it, a good wash is plenty. Snowfoam is a saviour this time of year, with all the farm crap on the roads, all the salt and general ick.


----------



## PJS

Nik, it's hard to say exactly, as it'll depend on the flow rate of your machine, and what setting you've the lance adjusted to.
That'll dictate the amount needed, which in turn dictates the number of uses you'll get out of the 5L.
Don't forget 4-5% is for highly grimed, but various factors may let you get way with 2%, which'll extend the time between purchases of the foam.

Also, the values mentioned relate to Bilt Hamber's foam - not all foams are the same, so number of uses for other brands will vary.


----------



## ebo007

Good post. Very helpful.


----------



## mu71rd

can I just say that there is an easier method of working out how much water you squirted out...

rather than going to the effort of marking litre marks on a bottle, (which is a really inaccurate way of doing it to be honest) - you could just weigh the bottle before and after.

Water weighs 1g per ml or 1kg per litre. Most bathroom scales are pretty accurate (mine are to .1 kg - which is 100ml)

So, weight the bucket (or tare your scales with the bucket on), do the test, and then weigh it again. 

if it's 14kg heavier - you got through 14 litres of water. 

simple!


----------



## Lazy_boyo

or just put an inch of snow foam in the lance and fill with water :-/


----------



## -Kev-

Lazy_boyo said:


> or just put an inch of snow foam in the lance and fill with water :-/


which isn't always strong enough as it's diluted down even further by the water flowing through the machine


----------



## najed

Great job


----------



## rich1880

Had first go with snow foam and used the PH Neutral from cleanyourcar. Ended up with 3 inch of foam in the bottle topped with water and it worked a treat and was enough to do 3 cars.


----------



## dooka

Not sure on all these calculation, but I am no Mathematician or spelling guru ..

With my Nilfisk E140 (which I hate), to empty my lance bottle, took 5 liters of water, so 6 liters all in all..

BH states 1:100, so I make that 10ml per liter, so 60ml in the bottle, should give me the correct dilution on the vehicle..

I think this is right. It worked for me though..

I do find BHAF not be be the foamiest foam..


----------



## MaDMaXX

Qstix, BH actually specifies a panel impact ratio, 4% on the car, so you need to make your calculations match.


----------



## HornetSting

Sorry, my brain hurts, ive just read 14 pages of this and Im still no further forward with knowing how to do my snow foam (which im waiting for to be delivered). Is there any conclusion to what amount of product I should put into the lance bottle?


----------



## -Kev-

really don't understand why some people get hung up on how much foam/water to use  there is no perfect mix, like there is no perfect product
i used 300ml of foam to 700ml of water (approx) on my car the other day, shifted the dirt and did'nt touch the wax on it (which is a hang up some people have - that foam strips wax).


----------



## HornetSting

Hey Kev, you stalking me? Every time I have a question you answer it within seconds of me posting. Least I know I can rely on you to give me the heads up!

Nice one.

Ben


----------



## -Kev-

:lol: happy to help Ben :thumb:


----------



## mu71rd

HornetSting said:


> Sorry, my brain hurts, ive just read 14 pages of this and Im still no further forward with knowing how to do my snow foam (which im waiting for to be delivered). Is there any conclusion to what amount of product I should put into the lance bottle?


Try 1 inch!

If they doesn't work try more, or less. All part of the learning experience


----------



## HornetSting

Thanks, will give it a go once I get my bits. Just wanted a starting point. Cant believe 14 pages were taken up with how much snow foam to use.


----------



## danski

Hmm, I just put a load in the bottle and what I use is what I use.

When I`m finished, I unscrew the bottle, stick the dip tube in clean water and blast it through, screw bottle back on and its ready for next time. so long as its sudsy, I`m happy.


----------



## Brian1612

100 ml of Auto foam, 300ml of water and the nozzle all the way to+ seems to work very well for me and my car, always have a little left over to do another quick pass of the car! 

Clings reasonably enough, around 5 mins and takes a lot of grime of when passing over with the power washer, gets me 50 washes out of the 5 ltr bottle as well


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## russellhq

Tried this yesterday (with slight adjustment) with my new snow foam lance (got the one from directhose on ebay) and BH auto-Foam and got a result of 1.5% PIR, that was with the valve 50% open and 100% open, hence the valve didn't seem to make much difference. Have I got a dud lance? (I was using a Karcher K4 compact for the test)

My slight adjustment was I did the test by filling the 1L snow foam bottle with water and weighing the bottle before and after filling a 10L bucket.

Here's the math:

Weight of 1L snow foam bottle before before filling a 10L bucket: 1015g
Weight of 1L snow foam bottle after filling a 10L bucket: 965g
Weight of water dispensed from 1L bottle: 150g
Volume of water dispensed from 1L bottle: 150ml
Total volume of water dispensed into bucket: 10L (10,000ml)

PIR = 150/10,000 = 1.5%

From my math, I filled the 1L bottle with neat auto-foam and gave it a trial. The lance gave a nice foam but it quickly disappeared from the car after a minute or so. Not sure where to go from here as I can't make the solution in the snow foam bottle any more concentrated to achieve the manufacturers recommendation of 4% PIR :wall:


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## Juke_Fan

I would start with 100ml of product in the lance (about an inch) and then topped up with 900ml warm water.

When you get time fill your lance bottle full with water and empty it using your pressure washer with the lance dilution knob set to maximum solution. Measure how much water is used to empty the lance. Once you have this figure you can work out how much product you need to achive the desired dilution ratio.

When I did this I found I could almost half the amount of Ultramousse I was using :thumb:


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## russellhq

Juke_Fan said:


> I would start with 100ml of product in the lance (about an inch) and then topped up with 900ml warm water.
> 
> When you get time fill your lance bottle full with water and empty it using your pressure washer with the lance dilution knob set to maximum solution. Measure how much water is used to empty the lance. Once you have this figure you can work out how much product you need to achive the desired dilution ratio.
> 
> When I did this I found I could almost half the amount of Ultramousse I was using :thumb:


Thanks, that's what I tried. The lance dispensed 66.5 litres wide open before the bottle was empty.


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## Juke_Fan

66.5L - thats a lot of water.

When I tested my lance I only used 16L of water to empty my 1L lance bottle when on max solution flow.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=357098


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## russellhq

Juke_Fan said:


> 66.5L - thats a lot of water.
> 
> When I tested my lance I only used 16L of water to empty my 1L lance bottle when on max solution flow.
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=357098


Yip, that's what I thought! Makes me wonder if there's a problem with the foam lance?


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## Juke_Fan

What's your PW rated re flow per minute and how long did it take you to empty your lance to get 66L? Do the two tie up? Your lance would normally restrict flow compared to the PW suggested rate.

Other thought - did you have the lance set to minimum solution draw rather than maximum?


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## russellhq

I never timed it, but the manufacturer states a maximum flow rate of 420L/hr. The knob takes 8.5 turns to fully open. I tried it on 4 turns and fully open and got the same result. I turned it in the direction of the + arrow to fully open it.


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## MaDMaXX

Sounds like a broken lance, i'd go that direction first.


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## russellhq

MaDMaXX said:


> Sounds like a broken lance, i'd go that direction first.


Thanks, I've contacted the seller, so now waiting on a reply. I'm tempted to "tinker" with it, but I should probably wait until I receive advice from the seller first


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## TPursey

cheezemonkhai said:


> To be fair I put 1" in the bottom of the HD and then topped it off with water and did a medium sized car with 1/3rd of the bottle and it was a nice thick foam too


Hoping to try this and get thick foam too!


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## firehorse

Newbie; I don't see a thanks button but I'd like to thank bassologist for starting this thread. Very straightforward and informative. :thumb:


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## MarcFrs350

I never realised how complex this was going to be. 

I bought a Karcher lance about a year ago as it was going cheap at Halfords, but it didn't do great, and I read reviews after saying the same so assumed it was a bit naff. Probably more me to be honest.

Last week decided to try another and bought the Clean your car one as it had good reviews, but tried various ratios of foam to water and different settings on the lance and always seems really runny and barely holds to the car for any time at all. 

It'll probably end up smashed up on the floor like my last pressure washer that messed with me lol


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## armufti

MarcFrs350 said:


> I never realised how complex this was going to be.
> 
> I bought a Karcher lance about a year ago as it was going cheap at Halfords, but it didn't do great, and I read reviews after saying the same so assumed it was a bit naff. Probably more me to be honest.
> 
> Last week decided to try another and bought the Clean your car one as it had good reviews, but tried various ratios of foam to water and different settings on the lance and always seems really runny and barely holds to the car for any time at all.
> 
> It'll probably end up smashed up on the floor like my last pressure washer that messed with me lol


Which foam are you using? And what are you using as a pressure washer?

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk


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## floopsy

Great info thanks!


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## Bikeracer

I recently got a new Nilfisk PW and the total flow through to bottle empty is 12 ltres and I now realise that to get the correct 4% ratio for Bilt Hamber doesn't require any complicated maths or much working out.

In my case it's just 4% of 12 lires or 40ml per ltr. which equals 480ml in the bottle and then fill with water.

Allan


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## jduan

nice guide. thanks


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## ollienoclue

Do not buy the Karcher foam gun attachment. It is sh1t. I did and regretted it ever since. I would send you the damned thing for free if someone really wanted it. Their foam product is probably OK but the attachment is beyond pants.

A quick note for those of you using BH autofoam like I do- you won't get a thick foam or mousse like avalanche etc from this product no matter what you do, believe me I have tried, I don't think even using the stuff neat will give you the mousse effect. It isn't that kind of product. Instead just marvel at the vast amounts of crud it can remove and watch it accumulate on the floor as it works.


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## petebak

After upgrading to the Karcher K7 I have had to recalculate mine

12.2 litres into bucket including the 1 ltr from lance.

equates to 488ml of product

512ml water top up.

Will be using it on daughters car when she gets back from uni tomorrow, so will see if it works as per usual.


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## Croques

*From the Ministry of Resurrected Threads*

News Flash:
_*
OFQUAL have just announced a new compulsory qualification for all intending professional car detailers.

OFQUAL spokesman, Gordon Dinsdale, (DSO & Bar), said on the steps of Whitehall:-

"It is commonly known that car detailers are the pits at maths. A full understanding of basic arithmetic is vitally important to the future prosperity of this county, especially now as we move to the unknown of post-Brexit and all those clever East-Europeans will be leaving us. Therefore, with effect from April 1 2019 all car detailers will need to pass a basic test in arithmetic and display the qualification at their place of work. Stuff like ratios, proportions, calculation of area and, of course, basic arithmetic addition for accurate pricing will be thoroughly tested."

He added: "It's become quite apparent that car detailers are becoming brain dead and we need to take action now to stop the rot. Therefore, I have instructed all Local Authorities to prepare courses of Arithmetic instruction suitable for detailers. The cost of the course is currently unknown but should be less that £1000 all in. These courses will start April 1st this year and detailers are encouraged to sign up soon".*_

Cor, 'struth! Whatever next?


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## Harry_p

Do April 1st jokes work in February?


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## tom_0787

interesting read!


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## Starbuck88

Came across this as I'm thinking about getting some BH Autofoam. I have a AB Snow Foam Lance which worked great (visually) with ABs own magifoam at 1" and rest of water but I found the foam didn't really do much apart from look cool.

However, I completely understand there is a ratio at which these products work best and it's nice that BH actually tell us what is the perfect PIR of 4% for their product.

It all seems complicated at first glance but really...it isn't is it.


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