# UK Invoice/book price for a car?



## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Obviously aware of the 2nd hand Glass' and CAP guides that affect part exchange prices etc... but are "invoice prices" (price from manufacturer to dealer) an obtainable value in the UK and useful tool when buying 2nd hand? i.e Is there an "invoice price" for manufacturer sourced approved used cars?

Will be talking to Toyota tomorrow about buying a couple of year old car. They've told me they can get hold of a certain spec car that we want from any Toyota approved garage in the UK, since they don't have one themselves.

Now there's about 40 of these "certain spec/age/price cars" for sale nationally it appears. But in terms of getting a good price, we're in the hands of "how much these garages are happy to let the cars go for". 

It's obviously trickier negotiating for a car that isn't actually on the dealerships forecourt - as they'll blame any lack to negotiation room on the other garage. But to my mind these cars still have a particular "trade" value, and the rest is margin. So we offer our price and that's that.

Any advice?


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

dont understand what your asking tbh ?


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

justina3 said:


> dont understand what your asking tbh ?


Invoice price, if Google is to be believed, is the price a dealer pays for a car (from source). In the US this seems to be easily sourceable information, so is potentially more important to your negotiations about what you're going to pay than the retail/sticker price is. Since everything above it is margin. Although, as they say, don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Of course, now that dealers aren't just selling the cars on their own forecourt, but assure you they can get hold of "any" of the manufacturer approved used stock (from anywhere in the country), the situation becomes a little more fuzzy. As they say they can get hold of them, but then negotiating is harder. Trying to see if these sort of cars have a similar "invoice price" - or if it's only new cars etc.

Does that make more sense?


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

There won't be an invoice, it will be as simple as your dealer ringing up the other dealer and saying we have a buyer for that car, either they will want a trade or paying for it, unless it's within group stock then they will transfer it assuming the dealer wants to let it go. If you are desperate for a certain car and want the best price then you are going to have to travel. If you want to just turn up and buy from your local dealer then your going to have to take some form of lube with you


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Thanks Steve, yeah, we're talking outside of group stock. Although the process is now harder than originally described it seems. I figure though, they're not going to be buying from the other dealer at retail price.

Not too desperate, it's not a rare car as such. It's just a case of working out what sort of price below retail it's changing hands for. Same as if they were buying it in themselves - rather than buying it off another garage.

It seems an "added complication" that could potentially be worked in their favour IMO.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

They will win, unless you can find the car your not really going to know how much they are going to pay for it. Just try narrowing it down to mileage, colour and if possible reg number. Then jump on auto trader and the Toyota website and try and find it. They will have to pay to move the car etc, if it's at Peterborough Toyota I don't mind having a look for you but I won't be around this weekend.


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

I see now tbh after twenty years in the car game this information in the uk isnt kept anywhere other than the salesmans desk who sourced the car even then it isnt straight forward, for example a local vauxhall dealer just had a corsa in as a part exchange to easy the figures up i have given examples, the dealer sold his car to mr jones for £10,000 he allowed him £3,000 for his car which was going to be sent to the auctions now you would think the auction guide price would be £3,000 plus maybe a £100 here or there but no once it leaves the sales man it goes to the sales manager who looks at the deal works out the profit from the original car of £10,000 which they allocate valeting sales mans commission advertising warrenty and a few others i cant remember then he looks at the cap price of the part exchanged price and allocated a percentage of the costs to the car going to auction so the finial guide price of the corsa in the auction ended up £3395 and they have taken for granted it will sell at this price so they have commission to pay on it as well.

bottom line there are way to many factors to take into account none of this is ever worked out and then filed on a database that i have heard of.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Both fair points! ^^^

Made a deal today. We feel happy enough, I'm sure they've made there share... just awaiting the final too-ing and fro-ing.

Hopefully a new showroom thread soon though (next week or so). :thumb:


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

Too many variables in here - depends where the car was used first.

If Mr Jones approached Toyota UK and said "I want that one" - they he would have paid full book price including any other extras - metallic paint etc etc.

If Mr Lease company was buying, it would depend on what type of purchase whether direct risk purchase or OEM return, - If Risk then additional discounts would be against the chassis price + any extras - many big lease companies get free metallic paint for example - if OEM return, otherwise know as 'program' cars, it depends how it was financed, what the agreed return residual agreement was blah blah.

So in answer to your question > No.

:lol:


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## cts1975 (Feb 22, 2011)

It would be very rare for a PX to be valued after the deal to take it in was done.
In the trade all used cars have an S.I.V ( stand in value). This is what the car is worth 'in the metal' it normally a manager or buyer who decides on the SIV. The car is then brought into stock at that price. The px price is normally a little higher or lower than the siv depending on how good the saleman was  If the PX price is higher this is known as 'allowance' which is the difference between the SIV and PX price taken from the screen price of the car that the px is against. 
That car will then be available through out the car group at the SIV, in some cases any recon/repairs will be put on top of the siv before it moves from one dealer to the next.
Tell the dealer the spec you want and let them tell you the price. From experience if a salesman/manager/dealer can be arsed bringing a car from another group dealership then they need a sale so keep this in mind.
Some franchised approved stock will be ex rental/management cars from the manufacturer and they will have plenty of room for negotiation.
Just keep in mind that the salesman always gets the last laugh and you will be fine :lol::lol:


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## cts1975 (Feb 22, 2011)

justina3 said:


> I see now tbh after twenty years in the car game this information in the uk isnt kept anywhere other than the salesmans desk who sourced the car even then it isnt straight forward, for example a local vauxhall dealer just had a corsa in as a part exchange to easy the figures up i have given examples, the dealer sold his car to mr jones for £10,000 he allowed him £3,000 for his car which was going to be sent to the auctions now you would think the auction guide price would be £3,000 plus maybe a £100 here or there but no once it leaves the sales man it goes to the sales manager who looks at the deal works out the profit from the original car of £10,000 which they allocate valeting sales mans commission advertising warrenty and a few others i cant remember then he looks at the cap price of the part exchanged price and allocated a percentage of the costs to the car going to auction so the finial guide price of the corsa in the auction ended up £3395 and they have taken for granted it will sell at this price so they have commission to pay on it as well.
> 
> bottom line there are way to many factors to take into account none of this is ever worked out and then filed on a database that i have heard of.


We used to just get a £450 house charge taken out of the deal to pay for recon/valeting etc - like it or not. We would then get a % of what was left
in the deal. I havent sold cars at a dealer for 10/12 years but if I asked my manager could a bring a car from another dealer he would tell me to go and sell one of the cars on the pitch!

'Your a salesman not a F'%Ckin order taker' was his cry !

I would imagine times have changed though.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Hi Phil, has the sales guy asked you, how much are you willing to spend, is it finance or cash up front, sorry to ask.

Where is this car coming from, which Toyota approved dealer, He properly did not tell you, otherwise they would of made there profits if you brought off the other dealer.

Plus which spec are you going for, Which Toyota model, plus colour and mileage etc.... Just a breakdown what are you initially after ?


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Cheers for the replies guys. Yeah, we were upfront with what we wanted, although I won't bung all the gory details here. "Invoice price" just registered my interest whilst looking online. Although, as we've gathered, no discernable use here. 

To be fair, in my latest experience of it, dealers are perfectly willing to get you a car from elsewhere (anywhere really), through the manufacturer approved used program, or from other garages. Since they can then use transport costs, lack of downstream negotiating room and all those outside factors to resist negotiation - or certainly change things a little. If you're saying "get me x car" - they know you want it. They're probably then negotiating at both ends of the deal. Brokering maybe.

It is different from saying, I'll take "X off your forecourt today for Y", in a take it or leave it fashion.

Though as said, we set our limit, and have got an "oop north" car (from 200 odd miles away) with exactly same spec etc, and lower miles than it's sourthern counterparts for less than the southern cars cost in the end. I'm sure they've made on it, but for us it seems OK too. It's the sort of price I was aiming to get down to. 

The cars and attitude seem good at this Toyota place, they've said they've been told it's A1 or they'll reject it (standards seem high there for my eyes), and my attitude is then the same - since we're both buying on trust, and they're aware of our (my ) expectations. :lol: 

We'll give it a test drive and full going over when it's here :thumb:


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## packard (Jun 8, 2009)

If Toyota, can you not do the national search on their web site and do the deal direct?? If anything. Goes wrong it will go back to your local dealership anyway under warranty???


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