# Lets have a debate over the 'waxes don't add anything' brigade



## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Ok then, you only have to read a few posts in the waxes section before someone mentions 'on perfectly prepped paint' or 'I find waxes don't add anything to looks it's all in the polishing' and my favorite one is 'slight nuances between them'.

Now I'm not saying unpolished paint is as good as polished paint, but I personally do think waxes do add to the finish.

For example my car is very common here and in town there are several Phantom Black Commodores, most of them are normally clean, nothing special paint wise and thats fine. Not everyone cares like we do.

But, theres one out there whose paint, even though it's exactly the same as mine is a deeper, richer, glossier black than mine.

Whoever owns it certainly looks after it and takes pride in their car, but I've parked next to this car and it's heaps swirlier than mine.

In direct sun mine looks much better, but driving around I woulds honestly say it looks loads better than mine and whatever he uses makes me want some.


In the past I've been impressed more with paint cleaners and waxes than polished and waxed cars (on my own cars and details).

The first time I used Zymol HD Cleanse and Concours on my Mariner Blue MX5 And on my old Black Megane Menz 1 Step Acrylic Jacket and Einszett Glanz wax left me more impressed than than fully polished and topped with Blacfire wet Diamond.


So what do you all think?


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

Doesnt do anything wax is a waste of time


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

So are sealants just no point


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

You should see the Phantom Black SSV I detailed in person Alex! :argie:


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## Willows-dad (Jul 12, 2012)

This is mine after machining and jetseal 109








And this is after the same prep but with red moose glaze and vics red.








The difference is minimal but I think the wax looks warmer and deeper, where as the sealant is more reflective and glassy. It is more noticible in the flesh.


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

-Raven- said:


> You should see the Phantom Black SSV I detailed in person Alex! :argie:


If you just washed it it would of looked the same with out wax or sealants


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

wax don't stick does it you're upside down :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Crystal Rock does something???!!!

Seriously I still do vlaeting work and on some of these cars Pledge would make a difference. Your right a wax on any car will make it better..

Ideally prep is 99% of the shine but to a lot of my customer base they are not interested in machine polishing they want it waxed and they are happy.

Poorboys Natties at £20 a tub is awsome.

I do what the customer wants and if a customer wants Ceramic Sealant on a really swirly car I do it, ideally should be machined but he is paying the bill and as long as he pays the bill I don't really give a monkeys.


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

suspal said:


> wax don't stick does it you're upside down :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Love it :lol:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

kempe said:


> If you just washed it it would of looked the same with out wax or sealants


Sure!


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

kempe said:


> If you just washed it it would of looked the same with out wax or sealants


your just cruel sir


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> your just cruel sir


Yes I am Im thinking about going back to fairy liquid :thumb:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

i,ve been trying the new colour wax collection by crayola been getting some good results


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

kempe said:


> Yes I am Im thinking about going back to fairy liquid :thumb:


i'm working my way up to fairy


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> i,ve been trying the new colour wax collection by crayola been getting some good results


Yeah get the big box and you have every colour for every car, And they come with a safety sharpner aswell win win


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

kempe said:


> Yeah get the big box and you have every colour for every car, And they come with a safety sharpner aswell win win


yea but you have to mix some to get the right shade :thumb:


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Whats Fairy got to do with this thread??


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

in all serious though no one doubts polishing does alot but i find the right wax/sealant on the right colour finishes it of perfectly, same as if you put a poor choice of lsp on you ruin the finish and turn a good finish into a cheap tacky looking finish


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

Alex L said:


> Whats Fairy got to do with this thread??


Prep before waxing, cant wax a dirty car


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

-Raven- said:


> You should see the Phantom Black SSV I detailed in person Alex! :argie:


i did see that one was looking good man


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

kempe said:


> Prep before waxing, cant wax a dirty car


Here you go :thumb::thumb:

http://www.familylearning.org.uk/learning_to_read.html


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

Alex L said:


> Here you go :thumb::thumb:
> 
> http://www.familylearning.org.uk/learning_to_read.html


To advanced for me any way still on my 1 2 3's


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

It shows, 

For the slow of learning I'm not on about washing, claying or decon.


Just curious on peoples thoughts on the often said waxes dont add anything saying?

I mean if they dont add anything why buy them? Perfectly clean paint beads, it's only contaminated, oxidised paint that doesn't (like my runabout car).


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

Alex L said:


> It shows,
> 
> For the slow of learning I'm not on about washing, claying or decon.
> 
> ...


Im not sure on what your saying can you dumb it down for people like me?


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## fordfan (Feb 4, 2013)

I believe that glazes, Sealants and waxes do add to the looks specially if the car is heavily swirled.... Yes closeup in strong light it may not look so good but in most normal light the same car can still look pretty fine... And for most people the shine and gloss overall is what matters.

Polishing out the swirls takes it a few more levels up so the contribution of glaze, Sealants and waxes do seem less compared to a swirly car but they definitely add to it 



Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

Willows-dad said:


> This is mine after machining and jetseal 109
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your lighting is differrent there aswell. need the same shot with ideally


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

All you ever hear is prep is the be all and end all, and i agree to a point. The point being if prep is right the overall finish is going to be better regardless of whatever is used for protection be it a sealant(polymer,ceramic,nano or any other)or a nice wax 

But from experience using many many waxes over the last few years the difference between waxes with regards to finish can be massive, some of the more sealant heavy waxes, and i call them waxes as they come in paste form and for most people if its in that form its wax, leave a very glassy sterile finish, products like sn hybrid, collis 476, vics hybrid are ones immediatley springing to mind, all good products without doubt but this finish isnt for everyone, including me
Personally i perfer my wax to deepen darken and leave a wet look to the paint, agreed sometimes a negative of this is it reduces flake pop, but usually i don't find that an isssue with decent prep, products springing to mind being vics concours, pinnacle souveran, r222 concours, tbh the list could go on,my point being the finish left with these compared to the other waxes mentioned IS different and if you people/haters that dissagree can't see it you probably need your eyes testing and should also be questioning why you are on here, its about the detail, details such as what finish is achieved by certain products is a big part of what detailing world is about to me, if it wasn't i'd just nip down halfords, buy a bottle of turtle wax shampoo and bottle of wax and call it a day because the car would still be clean and shiney at the end of it


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## Big Buffer (Jan 1, 2011)

kempe said:


> Prep before waxing, cant wax a dirty car


I wont wax a car without it being clayed is pointless.

A polished finished is ok for those people out there that dont know what detail is.

As mentioned if someone wants a wax fine its how they want it but the ocd'ers know better.

Candle wax is the best as well beats ear wax by a big margin


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Wish I could comment, I don't own a single pot of wax :doublesho

Having 2 white cars, sealants all the way for me -



















BTW, the Audi's wearing the Werkstat acrylic kit :argie:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

It's all in the prep.The different looks you THINK you're seeing is because of different light sources and angles end of story.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> It's all in the prep.The different looks you THINK you're seeing is because of different light sources and angles end of story.


I THINK you need to get down SPECSAVERS:lol:


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## President Swirl (Oct 23, 2011)

It is largely placebo, but they do add a degree of gloss for me. I have pictures of a Corsa I did for a friend, and the shine was markedly improved after 2 coats of 845.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

msb said:


> I THINK you need to get down SPECSAVERS:lol:


When you get swept up in hype like you have been your going to tell yourself you see differences to justify the money you've spent.


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## alxg (May 3, 2009)

Well I feel sorry for the OP as what actually started out as a decent question, which was written in a neutral way has turned into the usual "my way is right, you're all wrong" type thread :wall:

It's becoming more and more common on here these days; let's not forget it's a forum - which should encourage debate, not a dictatorship.......


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## retroruss (Apr 24, 2010)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> It's all in the prep.The different looks you THINK you're seeing is because of different light sources and angles end of story.


 lsp's make a difference to the finish I don't think I'm seeing this I know I am 
As others have said different products give different results

Here's a 50/50 of 2 different waxes . Can you see a difference ?


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

The thread should have been titled 'let's have an argument',because that's what it'll end in.The thing i don't understand is why it bothers some people so much when those of us who believe 'it's all in the prep' simply say so.


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## TopSport+ (Jul 22, 2012)

I see


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## srod (Dec 31, 2010)

kempe said:


> Prep before waxing, cant wax a dirty car


Sounds like a wager to me!


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## retroruss (Apr 24, 2010)

alxg said:


> Well I feel sorry for the OP as what actually started out as a decent question, which was written in a neutral way has turned into the usual "my way is right, you're all wrong" type thread :wall:
> 
> It's becoming more and more common on here these days; let's not forget it's a forum - which should encourage debate, not a dictatorship.......


I agree but read the thread title. It's a forum like any other there will always be the haves and the have nots in this case some people have the vision to see a difference some have not it must be like a magic eye picture kind of thing .it's just annoying when people try and tell me I'm imagining it I do find it quite amusing though


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> When you get swept up in hype like you have been your going to tell yourself you see differences to justify the money you've spent.


Er not sure what you mean by that as all products i've recommended recently are decently priced and well regarded proven products, yes i like my boutique waxes but i certainly havn't said everyone should its each to their own
I recommend products that work well for me and deliver great results, i wasn't aware there was a crime against doing that:wall:


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

retroruss said:


> lsp's make a difference to the finish I don't think I'm seeing this I know I am
> As others have said different products give different results
> 
> Here's a 50/50 of 2 different waxes . Can you see a difference ?


I can see a difference, anyone who cant is obviously blind


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Look russ no offence mate but a picture on the internet i'snt going to sway it for me i'm afraid.I and others have done tests in all conditions and Light and come to our own conclusions.As i've said on the other thread.


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

There has to be something in it or the pros wouldn't be inclined to use better products. I haven't spent any more than £60 on a wax or sealant but I have found massive differences in finishes with each one. What I have found that each one I have tried has a bit of something I like, some give warmer finishes, some give better water beaviour, some give a glossier look, some HELP give a deeper shine, some are more durable. Maybe the more expensive waxes do more of the above in 1.

Eg, I love the water behaviour from HD wax, I like the finish of britemax vintage, I like the durability of abyss. I prefer the flake pop from r222, i like the ease of application of seal and protect... the list is endless.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Guitarjon said:


> There has to be something in it or the pros wouldn't be inclined to use better products. I haven't spent any more than £60 on a wax or sealant but I have found massive differences in finishes with each one. What I have found that each one I have tried has a bit of something I like, some give warmer finishes, some give better water beaviour, some give a glossier look, some HELP give a deeper shine, some are more durable. Maybe the more expensive waxes do more of the above in 1.
> 
> Eg, I love the water behaviour from HD wax, I like the finish of britemax vintage, I like the durability of abyss. I prefer the flake pop from r222... the list is endless.


finally someone talking sense:thumb:


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

alxg said:


> Well I feel sorry for the OP as what actually started out as a decent question, which was written in a neutral way has turned into the usual "my way is right, you're all wrong" type thread :wall:
> 
> It's becoming more and more common on here these days; let's not forget it's a forum - which should encourage debate, not a dictatorship.......


Don't feel too sorry for the OP. Alex has been around this forum long enough to realise that posting such a question always attracts those that wish to do nothing more than disrail the thread with inflammartory statements, wanting nothing other than an arguement. Its so predictable who turns up you could lay money on it.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

S63 said:


> Don't feel too sorry for the OP. Alex has been around this forum long enough to realise that posting such a question always attracts those that wish to do nothing more than disrail the thread with inflammartory statements, wanting nothing other than an arguement. Its so predictable who turns up you could lay money on it.


Exactly its a very of the moment subject that's never going to be fully agreed upon:thumb:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

msb said:


> Er not sure what you mean by that as all products i've recommended recently are decently priced and well regarded proven products, yes i like my boutique waxes but i certainly havn't said everyone should its each to their own
> I recommend products that work well for me and deliver great results, i wasn't aware there was a crime against doing that:wall:


Ok...For instance a certain wax company that shan't be named and have just left 'you know who'when they first came on you said that the beading in that photo of their wax wasn't that good and youd seen better with Zy..l,then when you realised people were slightly against you for it you 'changed your tune' as someone put it and lo and behold you started buying everything they sold,which your entirely free to do,but that's what i mean by "swept up by the hype"
ps.no need to swear by the way.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Ok...For instance a certain wax company that shan't be named and have just left 'you know who'when they first came on you said that the beading in that photo of their wax wasn't that good and youd seen better with Zy..l,then when you realised people were slightly against you for it you 'changed your tune' as someone put it and lo and behold you started buying everything they sold,which your entirely free to do,but that's what i mean by "swept up by the hype"


You're correct the picture in question the beading didn't look great,but instead of slating the brand, i got a pot at group buy price to make up my mind and give it a fair test figuring if i didn't like it i could sell it and get most if not all my money back. As it happens i did like the product in question and yes i've purchased more or their products since, none of the later products were sold on hype as i was one of the first buying them
Also im certainly not in the habit of worrying about what other people think about what i choose to buy and my opinions of products, my 'tune changed' as you put it after trying the product for myself and developing a opinion of my own not in any way infuenced by others, also the comment made was collis beaded better not zymol

Hmm just wondering why the **** am i justifyig myself to you???


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

msb said:


> You're correct the picture in question the beading didn't look great,but instead of slating the brand, i got a pot at group buy price to make up my mind and give it a fair test figuring if i didn't like it i could sell it and get most if not all my money back. As it happens i did like the product in question and yes i've purchased more or their products since, none of the later products were sold on hype as i was one of the first buying them
> Also im certainly not in the habit of worrying about what other people think about what i choose to buy and my opinions of products, my 'tune changed' as you put it after trying the product for myself and developing a opinion of my own not in any way infuenced by others, also the comment made was collis beaded better not zymol


Yeah fair enough it was colly you're right i stand corrected,and i even agreed with you on it if you remember.Look msb all i'm saying is my own personal view,all this is at the end of the day is words on a computer screen i can't see what makes you so angry about it all,if i was saying your mad buying this,or that's a waste of money,or so and so is rubbish i'd understand but,you won't find any post of mine stating that about any products bar one,wet and black tyre spray,so for you to start getting worked up and calling people 'haters' over a phrase about being all in the prep is beyond me.As i've said time and again i buy different products for different reasons,feel,beading,durability not packaging or personal exclusivity.That's all i can say really.


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## VW STEVE. (Mar 18, 2012)

Polished & wax on a car looks fantastic when it beads up,can't beat that look.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> so for you to start getting worked up and calling people 'haters' over a phrase about being all in the prep is beyond me.


You post that blindly in every wax thread. Broken record. 

Of course we prep our cars, this is a detailing forum remember. :wall:


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## karl_liverpool (Sep 25, 2008)

I'm of the opinion that a wax or sealant do add to the overall finish. 
Polishing will increase clarity and depth of colour but the right wasx can add some gloss and depth to paint without polishing.

An example: my brother bought a p reg astra last year off a farmer. Paint felt like 2500 grit when washed. No clay polishing or cleansing. Tested out a new liquid hard wax (hybrid sealant wax designed for boat hulls) for cartec and it gave at least a 50% boost in gloss and shine. And lasted for ages too. That stuff is now my fave speed was next to their excellent ptfe wax. 5 mins cars is applied and removed.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Yeah fair enough it was colly you're right i stand corrected,and i even agreed with you on it if you remember.Look msb all i'm saying is my own personal view,all this is at the end of the day is words on a computer screen i can't see what makes you so angry about it all,if i was saying your mad buying this,or that's a waste of money,or so and so is rubbish i'd understand but,you won't find any post of mine stating that about any products bar one,wet and black tyre spray,so for you to start getting worked up and calling people 'haters' over a phrase about being all in the prep is beyond me.As i've said time and again i buy different products for different reasons,feel,beading,durability not packaging or personal exclusivity.That's all i can say really.


Who's angry

your opinion is just that yours, not my fault if you're wrong:lol:


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

Alex L said:


> Ok then, you only have to read a few posts in the waxes section before someone mentions 'on perfectly prepped paint' or 'I find waxes don't add anything to looks it's all in the polishing' and my favorite one is 'slight nuances between them'.
> 
> Now I'm not saying unpolished paint is as good as polished paint, but I personally do think waxes do add to the finish.
> 
> ...


ok What do I think after many years now of using waxes and sealants a lot of it is to do with reflection of light you car is swirl free unlike the car you see with deeper paint now a swirl free car reflects light better giving you that sharper look but maybe not the deep look on your colour that you are looking for his car has swirls so less reflection of light then with products that deepen the paint in most lights his looks better in your eyes.

Now in my opinion yes waxes can add a lighting or darkening effect to paint (certain colours show this better) depending on oils etc used in them same as certain Nano Sealants I have used sure I have pictures somewhere that will darken the paint but the effect same with waxes does not last a long time. This is why at first a lot of people do see a difference in their car when they have a new wax applied.

Of course this is just my thoughts I might be a mile of just what I have noticed over the years I am sure there is some in-depth scientific reason but really too lazy to read up on reflections of light and human eye plus the many oils carries etc used in wax sealants.

Personally just enjoy doing what your doing if you like a wax or sealant then carry on using it :thumb:


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

S63 said:


> Don't feel too sorry for the OP. Alex has been around this forum long enough to realise that posting such a question always attracts those that wish to do nothing more than disrail the thread with inflammartory statements, wanting nothing other than an arguement. Its so predictable who turns up you could lay money on it.


I must be the under dog as I have always been a quite one :lol: For me I was just stating that it doesnt add anything just wanting to get a little nibble on the hook :lol: And just to say something it dont matter if it does or it dont it dont really matter everyone has there own views. I started posting in a jokie way yes ok I was messing about but being given a link to learn to read arrrhhh some people can throw there toys out the pram for so little on here. Have I broken any rules by posting it? No! So why do people feel the need to put people straight in there veiws.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Wow, so many replies but I'll have to look properly when I get home from work.



kempe said:


> I must be the under dog as I have always been a quite one :lol: * For me I was just stating that it doesnt add anything just wanting to get a little nibble on the hook * :lol: And just to say something it dont matter if it does or it dont it dont really matter everyone has there own views. I started posting in a jokie way yes ok I was messing about but being given a link to learn to read arrrhhh some people can throw there toys out the pram for so little on here. Have I broken any rules by posting it? No! So why do people feel the need to put people straight in there veiws.


Actually your comments had nothing to do with the original answer, which is why I sent you the 'learn to read' link.

I could've put the Specsavers reply, but wanted something different :thumb: :lol:


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

kempe said:


> Doesnt do anything wax is a waste of time





kempe said:


> So are sealants just no point





Alex L said:


> Wow, so many replies but I'll have to look properly when I get home from work.
> 
> Actually your comments had nothing to do with the original answer, which is why I sent you the 'learn to read' link.
> 
> I could've put the Specsavers reply, but wanted something different :thumb: :lol:


I did answer the question you asked though


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Vision Express instead of specsavers then


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## mr.t (Oct 1, 2010)

Not sure if its in my head but after applying hd wax...the car looks epic!it adds a certain glow to it.I think it does add something.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> When you get swept up in hype like you have been your going to tell yourself you see differences to justify the money you've spent.


i dont go for all this hype its total rubbish imo, i have had expensive waxes that i have heared good things about tried them i was disappointed, 1 such one was P21 100% not a patch on the original. personally i dont judge a wax by its price but by its looks, beading/sheeting is a gimmick imo. the big factor for me is the look nothing else is as important, good looking waxes can be had for £20


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

retroruss said:


> lsp's make a difference to the finish I don't think I'm seeing this I know I am
> As others have said different products give different results
> 
> Here's a 50/50 of 2 different waxes . Can you see a difference ?


Mate i though hear we go you putting a picture up and you can never see the difference in a photo, but i can see it great photo, no doubt some one will say its to do with the light


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> The thread should have been titled 'let's have an argument',because that's what it'll end in.The thing i don't understand is why it bothers some people so much when those of us who believe 'it's all in the prep' simply say so.


dj i think you'll find its 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> When you get swept up in hype like you have been your going to tell yourself you see differences to justify the money you've spent.


1 of my Favorite waxes cost £20 i have no need to justify that money


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## Blueberry (Aug 10, 2007)

I would agree in saying that a wax, especially, adds something to the finish, most especially on a red car, where I think, it's very noticeable. I used a number of different waxes on my ex red car and each wax added something different to the finish. In the case of red, it really deepens the colour, noticeably. Vics Concours gives more of a wet look than Orange Crush (which is still very nice) whereas Supernatural gave a more glassy, reflective look and not as deep.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Lol you crack me up cheeky i swear.Top Gear's on in a minute i may respond after it finishes,depends how i feel


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

mr.t said:


> Not sure if its in my head but after applying hd wax...the car looks epic!it adds a certain glow to it.I think it does add something.


no its not in your head, some say it is just to justify what there saying, again HD wax isn't expensive and if it was its your money, if you see a difference its probably because there is :thumb:


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## reparebrise (Jan 19, 2009)

I did not read the whole thread, so excuse me if this repeats another reply. I once rented a car, , washed it and clayed it, and added a LSP, and took it to a meeting of detailers, I mapped out a sheet of the car, and beside the drawing of the car I listed different waxes and sealents, I asked the detailers on hand to identify what product was on what part of the car. No one identified that all pannels were teh same, all had opinions that teh fender had a deeper gloss than hood, another found that the metalic in teh paint popped better on teh trunk than roof, ect, ect.. Most laughed when I revieled teh truth during my conference, a few were angry. 

Just as it is not polite to discuss religion or politics with company, one should never discuss the best wax with detailers...

The best wax is the wax that gives you and your customers the results you want.


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## Bulkhead (Oct 17, 2007)

I'm always a bit suspicious about claims by LSP manufacturers. However, I do think there is a subtle difference in types of LSPs - my FK1000p gives a slightly glassier finish compared to my RBJE, which in turn is not as warm as my Vic's Red. They are also very different to the touch. What I believe is that a LSP's contribution to the paint finish may be less apparent on well-prepped paint. The paint on my Focus is incredibly deep and shiny after a good cleanse with Lime Prime Lite or Amigo and is not noticeably improved by application of a LSP. When I added a couple of coats of FK1000p to my air conditioning unit, after just washing it down, it made it much shinier. Therefore, LSPs do add to the finish, even if it''s just filling tiny irregularities in the surface that cause scattering of light. No doubt if I'd been really bored and clayed, polished, glazed and then added the same LSP, I would not have seen such a difference in appearance in the finish. Just my opinion. In the words of Mr Lydon, I could be wrong or I could be right. Either way, I wont be losing any sleep over it.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Some very well thought out and constructive posts here, although some people seem like they are right and regardless of anyone else's thoughts and experiences they are wrong lol.

Well itis the Internet I suppose.



Bristle Hound said:


> Wish I could comment, I don't own a single pot of wax :doublesho
> 
> Having 2 white cars, sealants all the way for me
> 
> BTW, the Audi's wearing the Werkstat acrylic kit :argie:


I did mean sealants too :thumb: just couldn't be bothered to type it lol



DJ.X-Ray said:


> It's all in the prep.The different looks you THINK you're seeing is because of different light sources and angles end of story.





DJ.X-Ray said:


> The thread should have been titled 'let's have an argument',because that's what it'll end in.The thing i don't understand is why it bothers some people so much when those of us who believe 'it's all in the prep' simply say so.


Dude, it's not meant as a serious thread, you seem to have some anger issues whenever someone has a slight difference of opinion to you.

Remember it's only random men on the Internet lol.



retroruss said:


> I agree but read the thread title. It's a forum like any other there will always be the haves and the have nots in this case some people have the vision to see a difference some have not it must be like a magic eye picture kind of thing .it's just annoying when people try and tell me I'm imagining it I do find it quite amusing though


This thread has nothing to do with the cost of waxes, and I've no-where in this thread told people they were wrong, just offered my thoughts.



S63 said:


> Don't feel too sorry for the OP. Alex has been around this forum long enough to realise that posting such a question always attracts those that wish to do nothing more than disrail the thread with inflammartory statements, wanting nothing other than an arguement. Its so predictable who turns up you could lay money on it.


Yep, don't worry about me as I do realise this is just the Internet where men are men, women are men and children are the FBI.



kempe said:


> I did answer the question you asked though


And then started going on about fairy, although tbh I was expecting a grown up answer with your thoughts instead of no it doesn't 



reparebrise said:


> I did not read the whole thread, so excuse me if this repeats another reply. I once rented a car, , washed it and clayed it, and added a LSP, and took it to a meeting of detailers, I mapped out a sheet of the car, and beside the drawing of the car I listed different waxes and sealents, I asked the detailers on hand to identify what product was on what part of the car. No one identified that all pannels were teh same, all had opinions that teh fender had a deeper gloss than hood, another found that the metalic in teh paint popped better on teh trunk than roof, ect, ect.. Most laughed when I revieled teh truth during my conference, a few were angry.
> 
> Just as it is not polite to discuss religion or politics with company, one should never discuss the best wax with detailers...
> 
> The best wax is the wax that gives you and your customers the results you want.


Whilst I agree with what youre saying as I've seen Royale next to Vintage and much cheaper waxes and they looked similar but because I knew they were there I thought I could tell a difference.

But I was just asking if you think waxes/sealants add more to the finish than some people go and on about.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

cheekymonkey said:


> 1 of my Favorite waxes cost £20 i have no need to justify that money


Yep, my current favourite is Guardian and only £35.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

And if waxes and sealants don't add anything why do so many people say there's a difference in looks between waxes and sealants, which if they didn't add anything no one would be able to tell the difference.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

The only thing i can say is i've been in the car bodywork side of things for 23 years if i go waaay back and up until quite recently i used to be quite sure of different looks depth,etc etc,but after various tests in different lighting conditions 4/5 of us couldn't really tell what was what between a selection of lsp's.I'm not saying that was the ********** answer but that was the result.So is there a difference? who knows, it's up to each user to decide themselves.Anyway i won't be commenting or responding anymore on this thread,that's all i have to say
Regards


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Thats a good point about comparing different lsps and light sources etc. I've done the same in the past and not really noti ed a difference in looks and my own belief is that an lsp needs to bed in to fully release the finish. I've been more impressed with the finish of some of my cars after they've had their first wash and spritz of qd after a week than i was after i'd just polished and waxed.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Alex L said:


> Thats a good point about comparing different lsps and light sources etc. I've done the same in the past and not really noti ed a difference in looks and my own belief is that an lsp needs to bed in to fully release the finish. I've been more impressed with the finish of some of my cars after they've had their first wash and spritz of qd after a week than i was after i'd just polished and waxed.


wax is like paint it needs to cure to see its true finish.


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

So if somebody thinks that wax doesn't add anything to the detailing process.......I put to them what do they do for protection?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

B17BLG said:


> So if somebody thinks that wax doesn't add anything to the detailing process.......I put to them what do they do for protection?


they do agree it gives protection but adds nothing else


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## reparebrise (Jan 19, 2009)

Alex L said:


> Whilst I agree with what youre saying as I've seen Royale next to Vintage and much cheaper waxes and they looked similar but because I knew they were there I thought I could tell a difference.
> 
> But I was just asking if you think waxes/sealants add more to the finish than some people go and on about.


I feel a wax of sealant is essential to a good detail, but paying an overt amount for such a product is just ego stroking.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

reparebrise said:


> I feel a wax of sealant is essential to a good detail, but paying an overt amount for such a product is just ego stroking.


every wax i choose has nothing to do with ego, i chose mine for the look they give :thumb:


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

Paint will reflect light even if its dirty. Even if you washed it with a wax and wax shampoo I don't think polishing and waxing would add anything extra.


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

Your all wrong


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

kempe said:


> Your all wrong


enlighten us sir :thumb:


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## WashMitt (May 27, 2010)

kempe said:


> Your all wrong


Boot polish on phantom black ftw :thumb:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

RDB85 said:


> Paint will reflect light even if its dirty. Even if you washed it with a wax and wax shampoo I don't think polishing and waxing would add anything extra.


so we have all been polishing and waxing our paint when all we really need is a wash n wax to get the same results :doublesho


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> enlighten us sir :thumb:


Weather it does or doesnt add anything to the finish of the paint work is in the eye of the beholder, If you feel it doest your right! If you feel it doesnt then your right! I have done cars were I look and go its not much different and the owner goes mad saying its amazing its never looked that good! I believe if you see a differance then it does its a bit like god.

But thats a different thread :lol:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

kempe said:


> Weather it does or doesnt add anything to the finish of the paint work is in the eye of the beholder, If you feel it doest your right! If you feel it doesnt then your right! I have done cars were I look and go its not much different and the owner goes mad saying its amazing its never looked that good! I believe if you see a differance then it does its a bit like god.
> 
> But thats a different thread :lol:


so you mean were all right not wrong


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> so you mean were all right not wrong


Yep everyone is right and everyone gets a gold sticker


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> so we have all been polishing and waxing our paint when all we really need is a wash n wax to get the same results :doublesho


I believe it does but that my opinion. Same way I don't think expensive waxes are worth it. I've used some AF Desire and SV BOS and much prefer AS WAX


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

Seems like you can't have an opinion on this forum. No wonder people slate it as everyone claims to be an expert. Just because you can clean a car well doesn't make you a god. This will be my last post as it really doesn't interest me no more.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

RDB85 said:


> Seems like you can't have an opinion on this forum. No wonder people slate it as everyone claims to be an expert. Just because you can clean a car well doesn't make you a god. This will be my last post as it really doesn't interest me no more.


:lol::lol::lol::lol:
you are entitled to an opinion but so is everyone else. i actually thought what you put was a joke. if you was serious about what you said i would suggest you stick around you have a lot to learn 

cheers a detailing god


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

RDB85 said:


> I believe it does but that my opinion. Same way I don't think expensive waxes are worth it. I've used some AF Desire and SV BOS and much prefer AS WAX


just a thought but you may of got a better finish if you used a polish first instead of wash n wax imo of course :buffer:


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

RDB85 said:


> I believe it does but that my opinion. Same way I don't think expensive waxes are worth it. I've used some AF Desire and SV BOS and much prefer AS WAX


You much prefer AS WAX on BOS and DESIRE??..
I must say,thats an original,thats for sure..
and of course its you right to have that opinion,just its


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

That's my personal preference though on my daily driver. I was not impressed overall. Glad they were only samples. At least I can save a few ££. Unless something really special comes along.


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> just a thought but you may of got a better finish if you used a polish first instead of wash n wax imo of course :buffer:


I used a prewax cleaner:thumb:


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

Wax is just to protect the paintwork. So why not use a ceramic coating instead


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

RDB85 said:


> Wax is just to protect the paintwork. So why not use a ceramic coating instead


thats my question to the non-believers!


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

-Raven- said:


> thats my question to the non-believers!


A ceramic coating isnt a wax so will add something to the finish its man made and adds a bling factor to the paint


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

kempe said:


> A ceramic coating isnt a wax so will add something to the finish its man made and adds a bling factor to the paint


Very true


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

More to life than having a clean car..........personal opinion at the end of the day


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

kempe said:


> A ceramic coating isnt a wax so will add something to the finish its man made and adds a bling factor to the paint


so why bother with a wax? Why wouldnt you just use a coating? That is the question! :wave:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

RDB85 said:


> More to life than having a clean car..........personal opinion at the end of the day


:tumbleweed:

You know this is a detailing forum, right?


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## Dixondmn (Oct 12, 2007)

-Raven- said:


> so why bother with a wax? Why wouldnt you just use a coating? That is the question! :wave:


Because its not just all about the finish of the paint. The process of applying and layering a wax gives a hand finished touch and warmth which you just don't get with a polish or sealant.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

kempe said:


> A ceramic coating isnt a wax so will add something to the finish its man made and adds a bling factor to the paint


Pretty ironic that a non-believer likes this post. Thought it was all in the prep lol! :lol:


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> they do agree it gives protection but adds nothing else


So it does add something then.........protection


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Dixondmn said:


> Because its not just all about the finish of the paint. The process of applying and layering a wax gives a hand finished touch and warmth which you just don't get with a polish or sealant.


yep, I 100% agree with you!


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

-Raven- said:


> :tumbleweed:
> 
> You know this is a detailing forum, right?


I do yes. I can read thanks


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

-Raven- said:


> so why bother with a wax? Why wouldnt you just use a coating? That is the question! :wave:


Ceramics need to be used at certain temperatures? I applied some 845 in -2oc just let it cure for about an hour it was fine


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

B17BLG said:


> So it does add something then.........protection


..........:tumbleweed:.....:tumbleweed:.........!


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> ..........:tumbleweed:.....:tumbleweed:.........:tumbleweed:!:doublesho


fail!


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

RDB85 said:


> Ceramics need to be used at certain temperatures? I applied some 845 in -2oc just let it cure for about an hour it was fine


Take a look at C.Quartz UK. Made for cold climate application. :thumb:


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

I need to adjust my OP as I did mean Waxes, sealants and coatings



kempe said:


> A ceramic coating isnt a wax so will add something to the finish its man made and adds a bling factor to the paint


Yet according to your original posts in this thread all lsps add nothing, it's all in the prep:lol:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

-Raven- said:


> :tumbleweed:
> 
> You know this is a detailing forum, right?


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

B17BLG said:


> So it does add something then.........protection


:wall::wall::wall:


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

Alex L said:


> I need to adjust my OP as I did mean Waxes, sealants and coatings
> 
> Yet according to your original posts in this thread all lsps add nothing, it's all in the prep:lol:


Its not a LSP its not the same wax is wax sealants are sealants and coatings are coatings


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

kempe said:


> Its not a LSP its not the same wax is wax sealants are sealants and coatings are coatings


but they are all lsp's


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> but they are all lsp's


No there not


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Yay another evening of *****ing and telling each other we know **** all:lol::lol:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

kempe said:


> A ceramic coating isnt a wax so will add something to the finish its man made and adds a bling factor to the paint


many waxes contain a large amount of man made items now a days


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

kempe said:


> No there not


what are they?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

msb said:


> Yay another evening of *****ing and telling each other we know **** all:lol::lol:


you love it:lol:


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

cheekymonkey said:


> you love it:lol:


**** busted


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> many waxes contain a large amount of man made items now a days


What does LSP Stand for Last Stage Product?

If I use a sealant which is a LSP but then put a coat of wax over the top its not a LSP its a SFLP :thumb: Then if I use a QD over the top the wax has now become a LSP and the wax is a SFLP


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

kempe said:


> What does LSP Stand for Last Stage Product?
> 
> If I use a sealant which is a LSP but then put a coat of wax over the top its not a LSP its a SFLP :thumb: Then if I use a QD over the top the wax has now become a LSP and the wax is a SFLP


Wtf lets make it all confusing


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

msb said:


> Wtf lets make it all confusing


Its not its simples :thumb:


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

kempe said:


> Its not its simples :thumb:


who you calling simples:lol::lol:


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

msb said:


> who you calling simples:lol::lol:


I cant read so I dont know :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

:lol::lol:


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

msb said:


> :lol::lol:


Still need to go on that lean to read link but Im not sure what the web site says


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

last stage product doesn't mean the last product you use, there are different stages to get the finish there know as lsp as thats the last stage of the system and not the last product you use, by your thinking a shampoo is a lsp


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## putzie (Mar 19, 2012)

well i think prep work is the secret imho , polishes and claying are for getting the panel correct and wax if for added shine and protection , i use a very cheap wax at £7 a litre and think its great so no need to go looking for a more expensive one , as for polishes i spent more money on them as having one polish has left me with some slight holograms you can see in direct light !
its a bit like spray painting a panel , you use 320 grit to rub and down and get rid of all the crap but if you dont use finer papers and then paint it it looks s h i t e !


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> last stage product doesn't mean the last product you use, there are different stages to get the finish there know as lsp as thats the last stage of the system and not the last product you use, by your thinking a shampoo is a lsp


Well it is if you only wash your car as its the last product you use on it :thumb:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

putzie said:


> well i think prep work is the secret imho , polishes and claying are for getting the panel correct and wax if for added shine and protection , i use a very cheap wax at £7 a litre and think its great so no need to go looking for a more expensive one , as for polishes i spent more money on them as having one polish has left me with some slight holograms you can see in direct light !
> its a bit like spray painting a panel , you use 320 grit to rub and down and get rid of all the crap but if you dont use finer papers and then paint it it looks s h i t e !


so the wax adds shine you say. if you have not used any other wax how do you compare £7 wax to know its great


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

cheekymonkey said:


> so the wax adds shine you say. if you have not used any other wax how do you compare £7 wax to know its great


Obvoiusly been listening to some of the 'experts' on here


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

msb said:


> Obvoiusly been listening to some of the 'experts' on here


Steady :lol:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

kempe said:


> Well it is if you only wash your car as its the last product you use on it :thumb:


no it may be the last product you used but thats totally different to a last stage product


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

msb said:


> Obvoiusly been listening to some of the 'experts' on here


it was you want it just so you can get your fix of this tonight :lol::lol:


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

kempe said:


> Steady :lol:


Oops my bad


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> no it may be the last product you used but thats totally different to a last stage product


But its the last stage of your wash


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

kempe said:


> But its the last stage of your wash


washing is part of the maintenance stage


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> washing is part of the maintenance stage


So it should be called

Last 
Stage 
Protection 
Product


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

but its not just for protection


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> but its not just for protection


Nether is shampoo?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

kempe said:


> Nether is shampoo?


thats right shampoo is to clean the car and maintain the finish :thumb:


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> thats right shampoo is to clean the car and maintain the finish :thumb:


what if it has wax in it though?


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

kempe said:


> what if it has wax in it though?


Thats what I said :lol:


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> so the wax adds shine you say. if you have not used any other wax how do you compare £7 wax to know its great


Because he is obviously happy using a £7. Good on him :thumb: He is obviously happy so why change it. I found a £20 wax I like really well and a sealant at £7


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

RDB85 said:


> Because he is obviously happy using a £7. Good on him :thumb: He is obviously happy so why change it. I found a £20 wax I like really well and a sealant at £7


If someones happy with what they are using great, but saying more expensive stuff isn't anygood without even trying it is a bit daft imo


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## putzie (Mar 19, 2012)

well i get more satisfaction using a £7 a liter wax and winning competitions and my car looks the mutts nuts where as i would be more peed off if i used £150 and couldnt tell the difference , i have a friend on face book who posted a picture on face book of his collection which must of been hundreds of pounds of swiss vax stuff just to make him feel better , what ever !
dont people get more satisfaction out of using a cheap product and then look at it and think thats the ******** ! i know i do


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

msb said:


> If someones happy with what they are using great, but saying more expensive stuff isn't anygood without even trying it is a bit daft imo


I have mate. Tried Desire and a sample of BOS. I much prefer my AS WAX. I also have a custom wax which is being prepared for me.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

RDB85 said:


> I have mate. Tried Desire and a sample of BOS. I much prefer my AS WAX. I also have a custom wax which is being prepared for me.


Wasn't specifically a dig at you, point i was making is there are alot on here recently quite happy to shoot products down without actually having used them:thumb:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

To be fair, the guy never said expensive products were no good.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

kempe said:


> what if it has wax in it though?


still maintenance for the day or 2 the wax in it lasts


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> still maintenance for the day or 2 the wax in it lasts


But its still adding protection? which is LSP


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Q.What wax did jimi hendrix use ?


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> To be fair, the guy never said expensive products were no good.


Thats true I use P1 by hand which I think is expensive. There maybe some better but I like it


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

RDB85 said:


> Thats true I use P1 by hand which I think is expensive. There maybe some better but I like it


Yeah same here mate it's a good polish.Good by machine as well


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

putzie said:


> well i get more satisfaction using a £7 a liter wax and winning competitions and my car looks the mutts nuts where as i would be more peed off if i used £150 and couldnt tell the difference , i have a friend on face book who posted a picture on face book of his collection which must of been hundreds of pounds of swiss vax stuff just to make him feel better , what ever !
> dont people get more satisfaction out of using a cheap product and then look at it and think thats the ******** ! i know i do


my point is if you only used that 1 wax how do you know you wouldn't get better results with another. personally that remark about your friend on facebook comes across like your jealous imo.
i get my satisfaction from getting the most and the best out of the paint, on some i.ve tried combos of lsp's and not liked it so stripped them off and carried on trying until i get 1 i like, these lsp dont have to cost 100 or even 50 its nothing to do with the price, although there are some who it may be all about the price. To me it has nothing to do with money and all to do with the look. what is your £7 wax.


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

But if you base it on looks people will also disagree.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

RDB85 said:


> Because he is obviously happy using a £7. Good on him :thumb: He is obviously happy so why change it. I found a £20 wax I like really well and a sealant at £7


one of my favored waxes costs only £20, so what does the price of a wax have to do with a thread that asks if a wax adds anything or no to the finish, its about wax not the price of wax. It seems with most that can't or dont believe there is a difference it always seems to come down to money. 2 £10 waxes wont look the same as can 2 £1000 waxes. seeing as you know so much about this guy can you tell me how he can claim he has a great wax for £7 if he has not tryed any other. As with everything to know something is good you have to have compared it to something else


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

RDB85 said:


> But if you base it on looks people will also disagree.


people will always disagree i finish my car to how i like it to look not what others think.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

kempe said:


> But its still adding protection? which is LSP


if you call 2 days a protection product that might be were your getting it wrong :thumb:


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> one of my favored waxes costs only £20, so what does the price of a wax have to do with a thread that asks if a wax adds anything or no to the finish, its about wax not the price of wax. It seems with most that can't or dont believe there is a difference it always seems to come down to money. 2 £10 waxes wont look the same as can 2 £1000 waxes. seeing as you know so much about this guy can you tell me how he can claim he has a great wax for £7 if he has not tryed any other. As with everything to know something is good you have to have compared it to something else


So whats your favorite wax then? I tried DJ SN v2 the £60+ one next to Angelwax Bodywax and could not tell the difference. I suppose its down the whats in the wax. But the % of nuba is only part of it I am no chemist so dont quote me on it


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> To be fair, the guy never said expensive products were no good.


he did only quote desire and bos and claimed he saved ££££, i also thought he was on about expensive waxes :thumb:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Doesn't anyone want to know the answer to my joke?


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Doesn't anyone want to know the answer to my joke?


:lol: Yes I do


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

RDB85 said:


> So whats your favorite wax then? I tried DJ SN v2 the £60+ one next to Angelwax Bodywax and could not tell the difference. I suppose its down the whats in the wax. But the % of nuba is only part of it I am no chemist so dont quote me on it


my favorite is vic concours and yes it kicks the butt of many waxes that cost alot more. how much nuba it contains is only part of the story


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

kempe said:


> :lol: Yes I do


A.Jimi Hendrix favourite lsd,i mean lsp is....Purple Haze! hahaha....ill get my coat


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> he did only quote desire and bos and claimed he saved ££££, i also thought he was on about expensive waxes :thumb:


That my opinion though is it not  I dont have the cash to spend on waxes so I decided to try two which where very popular on here anyway and didnt rate them sorry for disappointing you


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> A.Jimi Hendrix favourite lsd,i mean lsp is....Purple Haze! hahaha....ill get my coat


:lol: I think I will join you its getting a bit tense in here


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> my favorite is vic concours and yes it kicks the butt of many waxes that cost alot more. how much nuba it contains is only part of the story


Ive personally not tried any Vics wax. Owing cars that are Silver and White I would probably look at Hybrid


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## putzie (Mar 19, 2012)

well the wax comes from valeters pride along with most of what i buy , but going back to my original post i probably should of also mentioned when you paint a panel you spray on the colour and then add a lacquer to protect it and make it shine , bit like wax does for that panel after you have polished it and got it right


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

RDB85 said:


> That my opinion though is it not  I dont have the cash to spend on waxes so I decided to try two which where very popular on here anyway and didnt rate them sorry for disappointing you


yes it is your opinion, i was referring to what DJ said and not to your choice, but you do bring up a good point about being popular on here. personally thats were people get carried away some thing new comes out and people get carred away on here with all the hype.whats the in wax this month will not be mentioned in a few weeks


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Yeah vics and R222 good waxes.Car Chem are my next selection


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> yes it is your opinion, i was referring to what DJ said and not to your choice, but you do bring up a good point about being popular on here. personally thats were people get carried away some thing new comes out and people get carred away on here with all the hype.whats the in wax this month will not be mentioned in a few weeks


True. A bit like that company we shall not name and that thread of mine about expensive waxes. I dont believe in hype or because it claims to be x y or z. The only wax I bought from hype and recommendation was Bouncers 22 and its superb. Only got a bit left now


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Yeah vics and R222 good waxes.Car Chem are my next selection


Let me know about CarChem mate as they seem like superb products


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

RDB85 said:


> True. A bit like that company we shall not name and that thread of mine about expensive waxes. I dont believe in hype or because it claims to be x y or z. The only wax I bought from hype and recommendation was Bouncers 22 and its superb. Only got a bit left now


not got round to bouncers 22 yet but will. Again i point bouncers is about £40 for a 100ml so thats £80 per 200ml which is the same size as the waxes that cost £100


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

RDB85 said:


> Let me know about CarChem mate as they seem like superb products


Yep will do mate.They're well priced that's for sure,simple no nonsense packaging which i prefer.


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> not got round to bouncers 22 yet but will. Again i point bouncers is about £40 for a 100ml so thats £80 per 200ml which is the same size as the waxes that cost £100


True but I think I can get a similar look by using FK Pink Wax. I probably wont buy Bouncers again though


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

Ive got some Bouncers here if you want to try it or swap for something?


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

I love how virtually any thread topic can turn into an expensive wax vs a cheap one:lol::lol:

and how have virtually any of the posts from the last few pages got anything to do with the OP????



kempe said:


> What does LSP Stand for Last Stage Product?
> 
> If I use a sealant which is a LSP but then put a coat of wax over the top its not a LSP its a SFLP :thumb: Then if I use a QD over the top the wax has now become a LSP and the wax is a SFLP


Dude, seriously????

Theres arguing for arguings sake, but you're just being silly now :lol:



cheekymonkey said:


> people will always disagree i finish my car to how i like it to look not what others think.


Yep, and people seem to forget that this doesn't apply to just detail. You take any subject and one person will like something different to the next.



cheekymonkey said:


> my favorite is vic concours and yes it kicks the butt of many waxes that cost alot more. how much nuba it contains is only part of the story


And despite so many people on here and friends in the outside world raving about this I still haven't tried it . I really should.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

RDB85 said:


> That my opinion though is it not  I dont have the cash to spend on waxes so I decided to try two which where very popular on here anyway and didnt rate them sorry for disappointing you


Thats a fair comment, not everyone likes the same and at least you've tried them, its no secret i'm not a fan of dodo juice, but many are so each to their own:thumb:


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## putzie (Mar 19, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> my point is if you only used that 1 wax how do you know you wouldn't get better results with another. personally that remark about your friend on facebook comes across like your jealous imo.
> i get my satisfaction from getting the most and the best out of the paint, on some i.ve tried combos of lsp's and not liked it so stripped them off and carried on trying until i get 1 i like, these lsp dont have to cost 100 or even 50 its nothing to do with the price, although there are some who it may be all about the price. To me it has nothing to do with money and all to do with the look. what is your £7 wax.


no i am not jealous , no need to be as i am not the type ,if i want some thing i buy it , its more a case i think its a bit criminal as my friend will probably never wash his car let alone spend a weekend loving it and using his swiss vax stash , they where probably bought to make him feel better and now either rattle about in the boot of his car or stuffed up a corner of his garage and forgotten about tbh ,i do think arguing with everyone is not constructive as i thought this forum is about giving each other tips and helping each other !


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

putzie said:


> no i am not jealous , no need to be as i am not the type ,if i want some thing i buy it , its more a case i think its a bit criminal as my friend will probably never wash his car let alone spend a weekend loving it and using his swiss vax stash , they where probably bought to make him feel better and now either rattle about in the boot of his car or stuffed up a corner of his garage and forgotten about tbh ,i do think arguing with everyone is not constructive as i thought this forum is about giving each other tips and helping each other !


I,m not trying to argue the way you put it cam across that you were jealous, but if he does't use it then he sounds like the sort who bought it as a bragging right. what is the wax you are using?


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## Tom_watts (May 2, 2010)

Here's a couple of pictures I got from a training day with Marc (heavenly) Various different waxes applied after correction.


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## putzie (Mar 19, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> I,m not trying to argue the way you put it cam across that you were jealous, but if he does't use it then he sounds like the sort who bought it as a bragging right. what is the wax you are using?


http://www.valeterspride.co.uk/1-litre-non-silicone-carnaruba-wax-car-polish-203-p.asp
this is the stuff i use


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Tom_watts said:


> Here's a couple of pictures I got from a training day with Marc (heavenly) Various different waxes applied after correction.


Thanks tom and i dunno about anyone else but i can see distinct differences between the products:thumb:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

msb said:


> Thanks tom and i dunno about anyone else but i can see distinct differences between the products:thumb:


+1 :thumb:


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

msb said:


> Thanks tom and i dunno about anyone else but i can see distinct differences between the products:thumb:


How are you able to deduce this? The photo has a distinct difference in light source from left to right, impossible to draw a conclusion.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

The main light is above it by the looks of it in the first photo, granted its not 100% but i see visible differences, which are usually hard to capture in a photo, bet they were even more apparent in the flesh


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## alteclio (May 10, 2011)

First picture speaks for its self...


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

Some are slightly darker than other but the light sources are different a light over head would of been much better to see the difference or even direct sun light


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## Blueberry (Aug 10, 2007)

At a detailing day I attended last year with Lee from Bespoke Car Care, we applied various LSPs to a car. In particular the bonnet, which had been machine polished. I can't remember exactly but there were about 4 or 5, maybe more, waxes applied to the bonnet. You could physically feel differences between the LSPs, maybe not so much being able to see the difference but then, I do feel this depends on the colour of the car. The one in question was a dark grey. Just my penny worth


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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

Finally got around to grabbing a couple of photo's so I could contribute to this thread.
Door in question is a Nero Daytona metallic black 430 Scuderia.

Can you see a difference between the two photo's? -



&



Visually in the metal there is absolutely no difference whatsoever between one side of the tape and the other.

However as eluded to by the previous poster, if you run the back of a finger across the panel the left hand side of the panel is super slick, the right hand side feels grabby in comparison, almost like the LSP hasn't been removed (obviously it has).

And the culprits for this little test -

On the left we have -


On the right -


So the only difference that you can see would be from water behaviour both from when it rains and when the car gets washed:thumb:


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## Wheelzntoys (Jan 28, 2012)

I wonder if this will add anything, instructions are to let haze for about 10 minutes.

--------------

BLACKFIRE BlackICE Hybrid Montan Sealant Wax is a synthesis of German-sourced, color-charged montan wax and genuine Brazilian carnauba wax designed to bestow a dimension of gloss on black and dark colors that mimics the appearance of wet paint. Signature Wet Diamond Polymers provide exceptional resistance to UV rays and environmental contamination. Hybrid formula combines the benefits of synthetic and natural ingredients to provide the utmost in paint protection, gloss and clarity.


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## adamangler (Mar 9, 2013)

Wax is supposed to be a protectant. If it adds anything to the look it must have other properties such as colourants or fillers. Its all in the polishing. 

Not against using a Wax that has stuff added end of the say paint look good swirls filled in customers happy. 

But lets Not pretend that stuff is Wax its not


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

adamangler said:


> Wax is supposed to be a protectant. If it adds anything to the look it must have other properties such as colourants or fillers. Its all in the polishing.
> 
> Not against using a Wax that has stuff added end of the say paint look good swirls filled in customers happy.
> 
> But lets Not pretend that stuff is Wax its not


Mmmmmmkay!


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

adamangler said:


> Wax is supposed to be a protectant. If it adds anything to the look it must have other properties such as colourants or fillers. Its all in the polishing.
> 
> Not against using a Wax that has stuff added end of the say paint look good swirls filled in customers happy.
> 
> But lets Not pretend that stuff is Wax its not


put some wax on a unpolished bit of paint and see what it does, if it is just a protectant it will do nothing to the finish :thumb:


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## adamangler (Mar 9, 2013)

cheekymonkey said:


> put some wax on a unpolished bit of paint and see what it does, if it is just a protectant it will do nothing to the finish :thumb:


it will make the car look shinier. because the car is unpolished.
it will fill in the imperfections in the paint reducing light reflections and look shiny

Thats what im saying.

If you polish a car to perfection, wax will not add anything because it cant possibly do anything, if wax is adding shine to your car there are imperfections in your paint that you should be polishing out.

wax may make your car look shinier but its only papering over the cracks, which may be fine, its just a shortcut then.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

adamangler said:


> it will make the car look shinier. because the car is unpolished.
> it will fill in the imperfections in the paint reducing light reflections and look shiny
> 
> Thats what im saying.
> ...


if it was just a protected it wouldn't change the look of it, it adds to the finish of a well polished car :thumb:


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## MaDGeoff (Feb 12, 2013)

Wax adds something other than protection ....FACT




It ADDS another hour on the amount of time it takes me to finish the car.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

MaDGeoff said:


> Wax adds something other than protection ....FACT
> 
> It ADDS another hour on the amount of time it takes me to finish the car.


and an hour well spent may i add :thumb:


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## MaDGeoff (Feb 12, 2013)

I'd like to think so


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## tzotzo (Nov 15, 2009)

kempe said:


> To advanced for me any way still on my 1 2 3's


Hi kempe. Do you have to work you way to 4000 with irony?

Yes it adds that something extra. some lsp's add a glassy look and others more depth.

Many factors to consider though.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

adamangler said:


> it will make the car look shinier. because the car is unpolished.
> it will fill in the imperfections in the paint reducing light reflections and look shiny
> 
> Thats what im saying.
> ...


So are you saying Marc 'Heavenly Detail' can't polish? :tumbleweed:

Here's another pic in case you're blind. :wave:



Tom_watts said:


> Here's a couple of pictures I got from a training day with Marc (heavenly) Various different waxes applied after correction.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

but surely that's the way they've polished it :lol::lol::lol:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Alex L said:


> but surely that's the way they've polished it :lol::lol::lol:


yeah, 50/50's with Brillo pad and steel wool!


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