# Considering changing to a Mac



## james_19742000 (May 8, 2008)

Ok, so I feel like changing my laptop to a Mac, I want a laptop and fancy one that is about 13inch in size, in all honetsy I am fed up with Windows, I am finding it getting increasingly frustrating, and as seen as we have iphones, ipads, apple tv etc in the house it makes sense to move.

So, a couple of questions, how different is it compared to a windows based PC?

Also, I have a load of stuff on my external HD, films, music, photos, documents etc, would a Mac pick up one these and allow me to use/edit/view them etc?

Also, I see some of them these days are showing coming with SSD solid state drives, and the cost is mega! What is the difference between that and a normal HD? And they seem to be a lot smaller in GB size, is that genuinely smaller i.e. it wont store as much, or does it store things in a different way, i.e. is a 1GB file a 1GB file on both a normal HD and a SSD or does the SSD do something different with it?

Any answers would be great!

Thanks in advance, James

:thumb::thumb::thumb:


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## init6 (Mar 28, 2012)

Prepare for a Windows vs Mac fight 

I made the move about 6 years ago and it was the best thing I did. Takes a wee while to get used to the different ways of doing things - took me forever to work out how to uninstall a program (you drag it to the trash bin) - but once you do then you'll likely find you prefer OSX.

You should be able to read your other files without any issues. Editing will depend on what formats the files are, but I didn't have any problems.

SSDs tend to be smaller because they are much more expensive. They contain no moving parts so are less prone to damage. But the biggest selling point is that they are phenomenally fast. On my iMac with SSD, programs open almost instantly. Great for working with big files too e.g. large photos or videos. 1Gb on an SSD is still 1Gb. Not really the best option for storing lots of old files, best to back them off to an external disk.


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## JenJen (Jun 30, 2010)

Mac all the way for me. Changed in 2007 and never looked back. They are a bit pricey but considering they are great machines that rarely break and if they do apple customer care is second to none.

I have a 13in MacBook, 27in iMac, a iphone4s and a iPad3.

What more can I say


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## simonjj (Sep 25, 2010)

Another Apple convert here, Macbook Pro, iPhone, iPad, Apple TV.
The Macbook Pro is excellent, gesturing on the touchpad, back lit keys, super fast boot time ( i have upgraded the RAM and put in a SSD ) never been affected by viruses, ease and low cost of upgrading software - i could go on. 
As posted above though they're not for everyone, some just prefer Windows.
I share films, photo's on my NAS with other windows PC's / Laptop's in the house with no issue.
The cost to upgrade to SSD is getting cheaper all the time, i bought my SSD (120GB) and RAM from OWC in the US and fitted it myself along with removing the DVD drive and replacing it with the original hard drive again using a kit from OWC, the original DVD drive is now in an external case and plugs into a USB port, there are lots of on line tutorials and to be honest it was very easy to do. Startup and applications are on the SSD and the original hard drive stores all my files that aren't on the NAS.
Simon


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## Blueberry (Aug 10, 2007)

Bought an iPad 2 years ago and it's the best thing I ever did. Iphone 4s then joined the club so I suppose next it's the Mac . 
The thing with Apple products is - they just work ! No viruses, start up straight away, easy to use. Yes you do have to get used to doing some things differently but you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner


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## jontymo (Feb 17, 2007)

Macbook for me, i went for the 13", its the longest i have ever kept a laptop due to its quality.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

init6 said:


> SSDs tend to be smaller because they are much more expensive. They contain no moving parts so are less prone to damage.


Sort of. Less prone to mechanical damage, but so far figures seem to suggest they are less reliable than mechanical drives. When they go wrong you lose ALL your data rather than just the file that is sitting on the bad sector.

If you have an SSD, be sure to do regular backups!!

To get the best performance from them, you should not use more than 70% of their capacity otherwise the wear rate will increase rapidly.

Having said that, they do offer blistering performance for random access.


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

I can only echo what the others have said. I too added extra RAM and a Solid State Drive to my 15" MBP - it performs well and even faster than before.

I had never laid hands on a Mac before buying mine in September last year after 23 years of using Windows. I was pretty well up to speed in a week or so and would never go back to Windows now.

SSD prices have come down massively in recent months, however I wouldn't advise buying a Mac with one installed as Apple prices for SSDs haven't come down as they ought to have done. Buy a Mac with a hard drive and then add your own SSD later and save a lot of money by fitting it yourself - if I can do it anyone can.

Go for it, you won't regret it - Macs cost more than most Windows PCs but you get your money's worth in terms of build quality, lack of hassle, reliability, longevity and sheer satisfaction.


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## james_19742000 (May 8, 2008)

Being honest like I said in my original post, I am just sick and tired of Windows, mine is incredibly slow, and I dont have a particularly slow machine, despite regular virus checking, clean outs etc, its just doing my head in!

My sister in law got a mac laptop a few months ago and she loves it.

My only concern, is about converting movie and music files etc, is that fairly simple, or would I still keep the windows machiine for that? i.e. converting a film for burning on a DVD disc, possible or not?

I have other Apple stuff, so I am guessing the macbook is the final part of the jigsaw and guessing that with the wifi stuff they will all syncronise so they are all singing from the same hymn sheet so to speak.


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

I'm not particularly up on films atc., but AFAIK you can do most/all things on Macs that you can on PCs (awaits incoming barrage from the Windows die-hards). One of my main interests/uses for my Mac is Photography, and is starting to involve video - the Mac absolutely rocks on both of these. Music is certainly not a problem.


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## Buck (Jan 16, 2008)

james_19742000 said:


> Being honest like I said in my original post, I am just sick and tired of Windows, mine is incredibly slow, and I dont have a particularly slow machine, despite regular virus checking, clean outs etc, its just doing my head in!
> 
> My sister in law got a mac laptop a few months ago and she loves it.
> 
> ...


James

The majority of your files such as films and music will work on the Mac or Windows - it is the proprietry software that is different.

Take a look at these two sites to help: -

www.myfirstmac.com

and Apple's 101's: -

http://www.apple.com/uk/support/switch101/switcher/


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Before buying/installing a Solid State Drive (SSD) in my Mac, I did a lot of reaearch as I do with most things I do - I didn't come up with any of the problems you mention above in relation to current production quality SSDs.



SteveyG said:


> Sort of. Less prone to mechanical damage, but so far figures seem to suggest they are less reliable than mechanical drives. When they go wrong you lose ALL your data rather than just the file that is sitting on the bad sector.


Early SSDs were not very reliable, but I've seen no evidence to suggest the current ones from good manufacturers (e.g. Intel, Samsung, Crucial, San Disk etc.) are anything but reliable.



SteveyG said:


> If you have an SSD, be sure to do regular backups!!


That goes without saying, but you should do this in any case, not just because you have an SSD.



SteveyG said:


> To get the best performance from them, you should not use more than 70% of their capacity otherwise the wear rate will increase rapidly.


Where did you get this from - evidence?


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## LeadFarmer (Feb 23, 2011)

I made the leap from windows to mac just a few weeks ago, and I absolutely love my mac. So much nicer to use than my windows laptop.



james_19742000 said:


> Also, I see some of them these days are showing coming with SSD solid state drives, and the cost is mega! What is the difference between that and a normal HD?


Beware, some of the new retina macbooks have their RAM & SSD soldered in, so arent upgradable later down the line. I went with the non-retina 15" MacBook Pro which still has upgradable RAM & HDD. Ive started to use Handbrake software to rip dvd's and convert video files etc. Works a treat:thumb:

Im looking forward to getting the new iphone to completely appleize my life!


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

Another convert here.

the operating system is different to Windows and so will be unfamiliar at first. But, once you get used to it, it will become familiar and intuitive.

The biggest problem I have switching between OS X and Windows machines now is the @ and the " being switched.


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## MA3RC (Jun 19, 2012)

Two words: DO IT


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

DW58 said:


> Early SSDs were not very reliable, but I've seen no evidence to suggest the current ones from good manufacturers (e.g. Intel, Samsung, Crucial, San Disk etc.) are anything but reliable.


I get what you're saying but there almost certainly will have been a few failures, which doesn't mean that they should be regarded as unreliable, but until they've been around and in fairly widespread use for a good chunk of time, we won't have any solid evidence of how reliable they are over the medium to long term.

I've had computers who's HD's have lasted well over 5 years (they've been upgraded/replaced when still working, so in essence I've not experienced a HD failure ever) so it will be interesting to see whether, fingers crossed, the SSD proves to be at least equal to that.


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Bear in mind that Apple have been puting SSDs in MacBook Airs since 2008 - I haven't heard much about unreliability in this case. Of course there will have been some failures, but I don't think that SSDs are/were as unreliable as the poster implies.

I too have had great experience with HDDs and I'm hoping for similar with SSDs, I guess only time will tell but I'm hoping the picture is not as dark as SteveyG is painting it.


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## james_19742000 (May 8, 2008)

Seems like it could be a sensible move then, I could sell my current laptop to fund about 20% of it!!! And it is my birthday in about 3 weeks time...!

But seriously, yes I am keen to do it, gonna have to think about it for the next couple of weeks, perhaps take a trip to Comet or something to have a play with it


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Just bear in mind that you won't find much in the way of discounted prices unless you can swing the academic discount (around 18%).


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## Ric (Feb 4, 2007)

Also be aware that TRIM support in OSX is only enabled for stock apple SSD's

If you were to install a SSD after, TRIM will not be supported (even if the SSD has trim support)


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

DW58 said:


> Bear in mind that Apple have been puting SSDs in MacBook Airs since 2008 - I haven't heard much about unreliability in this case. Of course there will have been some failures, but I don't think that SSDs are/were as unreliable as the poster implies.
> 
> I too have had great experience with HDDs and I'm hoping for similar with SSDs, I guess only time will tell but I'm hoping the picture is not as dark as SteveyG is painting it.


I know, I had one hand on an Air & one on a MB when I was replacing my iBook that year. Also, i'm sure the majority of the 1st gen MBA's were bought with larger capacity HD option rather than the smaller SSD (was about £700 extra iirc). They're still a bit of a niche use product and whilst there are some hardcore gamer types using them, it's still not the full/wide picture.



carbonangel said:


> Also be aware that TRIM support in OSX is only enabled for stock apple SSD's
> 
> If you were to install a SSD after, TRIM will not be supported (even if the SSD has trim support)


I thought, (only from reading before I bought mine, I don't "know") that newer sandforce ones didn't have the need for TRIM support


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## Ric (Feb 4, 2007)

m1pui said:


> I thought, (only from reading before I bought mine, I don't "know") that newer sandforce ones didn't have the need for TRIM support


If the sandforce controller can tidy up the overheads themselves then they wouldn't need TRIM i suppose.

However i didn't think this was possible without TRIM. i maybe wrong.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

carbonangel said:


> If the sandforce controller can tidy up the overheads themselves then they wouldn't need TRIM i suppose.
> 
> However i didn't think this was possible without TRIM. i maybe wrong.


I'm probably a bit wrong as I don't fully understand the entirety of it all, I did bits of it then just got the rest from plain English comments from folk :lol:

http://www.sandforce.com/index.php?id=3
http://blog.macsales.com/11051-to-trim-or-not-to-trim-owc-has-the-answer


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

DW58 said:


> Where did you get this from - evidence?


I had a support ticket from Samsung which stated this but I can't seem to log on to the Samsung support thing at the moment, but the reasoning behind it is sound. Each cell on an SSD only has a write endurance of between 10000 and 100000 cycles, and when you write a byte of data to FLASH, it will either have to refresh one page or block at a time. With a journalling type file system, you could wear out a cell (and infact the whole block or page) in a matter or days, so SSDs perform wear levelling so that the same each time you update a file or whatever the data is rewritten elsewhere on the disk to stop the same block wearing out.
If you fill your SSD up, there's obviously less places for the SSD to rewrite the data and the SSD fails quickly (hence my previous support ticket with Samsung!)



DW58 said:


> I too have had great experience with HDDs and I'm hoping for similar with SSDs, I guess only time will tell but I'm hoping the picture is not as dark as SteveyG is painting it.


I'm absolutely in support of SSDs and have them in all my machines at home (no longer in my server though!! :devil::devil, but it is important that people understand the limitations of using FLASH drives and that they are not (yet!) the ultimate replacement for mechanical hard drives.


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

There again Trim is not necessary in all SSDs - some controllers have garbage control built in, i.e. Intel 520 SSDs with late Sandforce controllers.


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## eatcustard (May 4, 2011)

Dont forget you can run windross via boot camp or parallels if you need to.


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

eatcustard said:


> Dont forget you can run windross via boot camp or parallels if you need to.


Or VM Fusion.


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Not sure if this link helps but I had the same dilemma : http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=276834

In the end I went for a 27" iMac which I've had for just under a week. I've used Windows since 3.1 and I'm far from a PC hater. What I will say though is that I got to grips with my Mac within a couple of hours and I'm confident using it within a day or two.

Very comprehensive to use, quick and efficient and beautifully made as well. For me time will tell on it's longevity as previous Windows PCs haven't lasted me like I hope my iMac does.


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Glad to hear you went for a Mac - good luck :thumb:


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## durmz (Nov 2, 2010)

I would like to throw a question in if thats alright. My parents run a business from home, have allways used a pc but are very much non technical, I mean there old :lol: 99% of their use is email's, word excel and sage.

the desktop is knackered and momsy wants a big imac just because they look fantastic. Ive tried to tell them for want they want they could get a pc so much cheaper, they'd never come close to using the imac to its potential. 

however women/wives/moms get what they want, do you think an imac would be a pain to transition over to? there complete technophobes and im useless too so would be of minimum assistance.

is it really as easy as it looks?


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Yes, it really is easy.

_Caveat_ - check if there is a version of Sage Accounting for the Mac - see here

[edit]

Does Sage work on my Mac? - yes, but only with a couple of versions ... ...



> Q. Does Sage software work with Apple Mac?
> 
> A. The majority of Sage software is not compatible with the Apple Mac operating systems. However, Sage One and Sage CRM.com are online products and will therefore work on a Mac.


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Although a Mac is expensive I would recommend one for non techy types.

Put it this way, I went into the store and first of all they actually under sold me the product. As in I went in with the intention of going for 8gb and memory but was actually advised I would genuinely only need 4gb and where to buy from when I did choose too. That impressed me as a non-techy person could easily be miss sold computer equipment.

Secondly they took me to the back of the store and set it up with me. I would have been happy to take it home and do it but again for someone who isn't technical that is ideal. Means they literally get the box home and it's ready to go. They were even doing this for the more simple products such as iPads etc.

For someone who isn't technical like my mum, I would recommend them all day long.



DW58 said:


> Glad to hear you went for a Mac - good luck :thumb:


Thanks mate although with it being so easy to use hopefully I won't need too much luck haha


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

durmz said:


> the desktop is knackered and momsy wants a big imac just because they look fantastic. Ive tried to tell them for want they want they could get a pc so much cheaper, they'd never come close to using the imac to its potential.


It's true they could get a PC a lot cheaper, £999 is a lot for an i5 with 4GB RAM and 6750M graphics. If she's only bothered about how it looks, you could always buy an Apple monitor and attach an Acer Revo to the back of it.

If she isn't bothered by the price, then go for it unless she's using some special software or needs integration with a particular server or network shares (Novell etc.).


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

SteveyG said:


> It's true they could get a PC a lot cheaper, £999 is a lot for an i5 with 4GB RAM and 6750M graphics. If she's only bothered about how it looks, you could always buy an Apple monitor and attach an Acer Revo to the back of it.


In reality the combination of Apple monitor and Acer PC would probably work out more expensive as the only Displays Apple now sell new are the 27" Thunderbolt and Cinema displays which are both £899.00 retail (the only real differences being the method of connection - Thunderbolt vs. Mini Display-port). As that's only £100.00 cheaper than the basic 21" iMac @ £999.00 it's probably just as well going for the iMac.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

DW58 said:


> In reality the combination of Apple monitor and Acer PC would probably work out more expensive as the only Displays Apple now sell new are the 27" Thunderbolt and Cinema displays which are both £899.00 retail


:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho


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## jonnyMercUK (Apr 19, 2012)

I have a 2008 iMac, seriously it's just like when I got it new. Unfortunately i'm going to have to sell it as I don't use it any longer (I have a nice MacBook Pro instead  )


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## durmz (Nov 2, 2010)

great answers just what was looking for thanks chaps


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## jamest (Apr 8, 2008)

durmz said:


> I would like to throw a question in if thats alright. My parents run a business from home, have allways used a pc but are very much non technical, I mean there old :lol: 99% of their use is email's, word excel and sage.
> 
> the desktop is knackered and momsy wants a big imac just because they look fantastic. Ive tried to tell them for want they want they could get a pc so much cheaper, they'd never come close to using the imac to its potential.
> 
> ...


No it isn't.

Company I do work for bought MacBook Pros for all the staff (only 4 of them) as their main head office people in Europe use Macs.

They lasted two months before they stopped using them and brought in some Windows based PCs for less than half the cost.

They had problems with software which is mainly down to the fact that the company they were doing business with was in India and relied on IE (was an active-x application). They also struggled to get on with various bits of the Apple software (Mail app particularly) which is probably due to being used to using Outlook for years prior.

They also struggled with the single click and the touchpad.

Saying that though, I have set up one of them on Ubuntu on their own PC and they are fine with that, fine with Windows (XP and 7) but struggled with OSX.

Probably be worth getting them to go to an Apple store and have a play.


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## init6 (Mar 28, 2012)

jamest said:


> They also struggled to get on with various bits of the Apple software (Mail app particularly) which is probably due to being used to using Outlook for years prior.


Why didn't they just buy Outlook for MAC?


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Valid point - if it's a compatibility issue like that described above by _Jamest_ it just ain't going to work. There is nothing like the selection of commercial software packages out there for Mac that you can find for PC, Sage Accounting software is a case in point - I often butted heads with Sage in a previous life and loathed its very existance. If the Mac-compatible Sage products don't suit, perhaps there is a Mac-based accounting package which will import Sage data. In my former life working for Missus Queen I came across plenty of Mac-based accounting systems using commercially available software.

Despite the point made in the previous paragraph, there is a huge amount of software available for Mac, and most of it of superb quality - remember many well known packages were originally Mac-based, plus there is a vast resource of good quality and cheap/FOC software available from the App Store.


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## jamest (Apr 8, 2008)

init6 said:


> Why didn't they just buy Outlook for MAC?


I wasn't involved in the Mac buying process. That was initiated from head office, I guess they used Mail app with no problem so assumed that the UK office would be fine. They had the rest of the Office suite though (Word/Excel etc) and they had no problems using them on the Mac.

One of the staff there is still using their Mac without issue and is working with the rest of them thanks to Dropbox. Although there was a problem around that. I got a call out from them because one of their folders suddenly disappeared one day but it was showing on the Mac. Apple is a lot more flexible on characters that can be used in folder names which ended up making the folders invisible on the Windows PCs. So you might occasionally get hiccups where you have a mix of Mac/Windows.


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

jamest said:


> They also struggled with the single click and the touchpad.


The whole single click thing was a concern of mine prior to buying. Having asked in store and eventually buying a Mac you can configure it to right click which is obviously a very familiar function to most computer users.


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## jamest (Apr 8, 2008)

Alex_225 said:


> The whole single click thing was a concern of mine prior to buying. Having asked in store and eventually buying a Mac you can configure it to right click which is obviously a very familiar function to most computer users.


Some people just don't pick it up however much you tell them, once they had got frustrated with the Macs I don't think there was anything you could do to sell it to them.

Tried teaching them the two finger scroll on the touchpad but again, not something that they could pick up.


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Yeah I know what you mean mate. I've given IT training on occasion and there are some people that will quite literally not hear what you're saying. They listen but it's not going in. 

Also I wouldn't want to totally replace a mouse with the Apple trackpad. As good as they are a mouse is much more 'normal'.


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Alex_225 said:


> Yeah I know what you mean mate. I've given IT training on occasion and there are some people that will quite literally not hear what you're saying. They listen but it's not going in.


Tell me about it - I used to conduct training courses back in the nineties for non-PC users to get them up to speed to use a Windows laptop with specialised software out in the field. Trying to teach some 45-55 year olds who had never used a PC before was a nightmare - some not only couldn't but wouldn't hear.



Alex_225 said:


> Also I wouldn't want to totally replace a mouse with the Apple trackpad. As good as they are a mouse is much more 'normal'.


I use both, I love/need my mouse, but I'm using a Magic Trackpad with the other hand sometimes - yes I know ... ... ... :lol:


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

DW58 said:


> I use both, I love/need my mouse, but I'm using a Magic Trackpad with the other hand sometimes - yes I know ... ... ... :lol:


Don't worry mate I'm the same. The touchpad is very very cool so I fancied one but the mouse (for now) is a fair bit quicker for me to use haha.


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

I love the Magic Touchpad for the gestures - especially the two fingered "forward" and "back" and also the three fingers & thumb "show desktop" plus others - but for screen navigation I prefer my Logitech Performance Mouse MX. for out and about there always the trackpad on the MBP plus a small mouse (Logitech Wireless Mouse M705) which I carry in my bag.


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