# Autosmart smart wheels corrosion



## absolute (Jan 19, 2010)

I bought smart wheels a while back. I never use it, normally use bilberry as cars never that dirty.

I like smart wheels for wheel trims and things. However, I picked up a car for my mum yesterday. Wheels were pretty black, decided to let the smart wheels sit on it for a while and various areas or tree routing arose.

Don't get me wrong, I was using neat, let it sit for 5 and it does say corrosive on the back. It does just show you how careful you must be. I reckon it's okay for wheels with no access points(kerbing, buzz gun nips) but its a tough call as its hard to see what's behind the spoke and If there are any blemishes I reckon you could well see corrosion coming through from the inside of the wheel.

Don't bash me, I'm just putting it out there. I half expected it, wheels are getting recoated anyway.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Did smart wheels do this to the wheel, I have noticed on my rear alloy I have a bubble as well, never have had this problem in all these years.

I would be keen to know why it's starting forming, could it be to the lack of wheel washing, but a few weeks back the wheels were protected with a coating, so and the bubble was not there before hand, seems strange to me.
I think the wheel must of had a chip on mine, and the bubble formed, I could be wrong.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

I don't think it was ever supposed to be used Neat was it?

It's been a while since I read my smart wheels, but I thought the strongest it recommends is 1:1


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Criagg, why do wheels bubble like this, my rear alloy has the exact same cause as the picture above, but coming winter I have a feeling the alloy will be more damaged and the bubble will form bigger due to road salt.

On mine, it's between the spoke on the alloy, near the tyre valve.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

it's corrosion on the surface under the paint trip.

near the tyre valve it's likely been chipped when the tyre was changed and the valve removal tool was used.

then either something caustic, or water has been trapped and caused the surfaced to rust separating the paint from the surface.


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## P.A.D (Jun 26, 2008)

Normally caused by a wheel being curbed and water getting underneath the paint and lifting it.

Using a pressure washer in the same area will almost certainly get under the paint if it's been curbed or is already corroded.

Russell


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## P.A.D (Jun 26, 2008)

CraigQQ said:


> it's corrosion on the surface under the paint trip.
> 
> near the tyre valve it's likely been chipped when the tyre was changed and the valve removal tool was used.
> 
> then either something caustic, or water has been trapped and caused the surfaced to rust separating the paint from the surface.


Beat me to it dude.................:thumb:


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## magpieV6 (Jul 29, 2008)

Ive used smartwheels for 5 years now, on curbed & mint wheels & never had a problem. I would never use it neat.


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## absolute (Jan 19, 2010)

I've been on the case for a while it definitely did this. I inspected wheels before hand. 

Around the valve caps is always the worst as well as the bolt surrounds, hard to help wear here. 

Although the elements of every day driving do cause corrosion, it's not quite like this IMHO.

Next step is to get a video of it happening. I need a 2/3 year old car that's never seen a strong wheel cleaner before. I find once it's happened once, the damage from there on is quite slow. 

If you were to use this product on a polished rim you would be barkers.

I'm sure it used to say 1:1 but now it says 1:3 or stronger if heavy soiled. But vague.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

I have never had a car that required more than 1 part smart wheels to 4 parts water to be honest.. and I've had some real nasty ones.. 

I had a failed caliper on a project car, but there was no wheel cleaner getting that off (mum was running it for 6 months before she told me and it wore the pads out and went through the first layer of the double disc)
even the acidic Ali shine didn't touch it, and fallout remover reacted slowly but took about 10-12 hits to get it clean..


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

CraigQQ said:


> it's corrosion on the surface under the paint trip.
> 
> near the tyre valve it's likely been chipped when the tyre was changed and the valve removal tool was used.
> 
> then either something caustic, or water has been trapped and caused the surfaced to rust separating the paint from the surface.


Thanks Craigg for your help :thumb:, I must admit I was shocked to this bubble form on my alloy wheel this week, it's the first one with in the years, I used some bilberry wheel cleaner then sealed them and the bubble appeared with no indication with in two weeks, it does sound like to me there was a chip before hand which I did not see, thanks for your help on here Criagg


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

I would say that that was probably there before you used the Smart Wheels but you didnt notice because the wheels were so dirty and you had only just picked the car up for your mum as you said. You are quite right though Smart Wheels would not help as it will react with the bare alloy underneath especially when used neat. The wheel also looks in terrible condition with pin holes all over the finish and im not sure but it looks like that wheel has maybe been touched up in the past.

Its always a good idea to read the label properly though as it states in *bold* 'not suitable for use on damaged wheels. These are trade strength products and not the usual readily diluted products you get off the shelf. If Smart Wheels was readily diluted it would not have to be labelled as Corrosive. You must follow the instructions on these products, they are there for a good reason.

For that sort of wheel the right choice would of been Hazsafe which is still Alkaline and strong enough to shift the soiling but can be used neat without reacting with the bare alloy of the damaged wheel.


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

Wow, I've been using it a while now on all kinda of wheels, both mint and slightly damaged and not encountered any problems at all. I'm surprised to see people using as strong as 4:1 tbh. I use mine at 10:1 even for really mucky wheels and it still brings them up spotless. 20:1 if there's a light layer of dirt.


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## absolute (Jan 19, 2010)

I understand how it seems I've overlooked the defect to start with. This isn't the case. 

I did state that I didn't use the product as per label. It was a very wet day today and the wheels would have been wet with me blasting the tyres etc so in effect it wouldn't quite have been neat.

It's enough to make me personally never want to use it on decent wheels even with dilution. 

It's just a weird thing to happen, was hoping I wasn't the only one. It seems to be an instant reaction. It's hard to get my head round it. I'm just extra paranoid about damaging anything in anyway. I notice things that others may not. 

A good friend of mine doesn't even notice that his wheel cleaner destroys vw/vauxhall stud caps for instance. I had to physically demonstrate. 

I will try capture this one day on video, just need a guinea pig.


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## Sirmally2 (Feb 28, 2011)

I am a weighbridge operator for a processed chemicals and fertiliser company so see dangerous loads everyday as well as the msds and the (old) tremcards which accompany them. I've seen what weak nitric, caustic and sulphuric acid does to solid stainless steel barrels, couplings etc and it doesn't surprise me that if you've used smartwheels neat that this has happened.

Any product i now use i always read the guidelines carefully, and always air on the side of caution when using any hazardous product. If you're ever in any doubt about dilution ratios, always be on the careful side and overdilute, you can always put a little more product in to make the ratio up.

If you're in any doubt, give your AS rep a ring, they know their products and should be able to give you some help on dilution ratios

HTH :thumb:


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## deeman72 (Feb 14, 2007)

Ben Gum said:


> Now I do bang on about this, Smart wheels is a good product but it is strongly caustic and I think a lot of users on here are oblivious of what this means. However... are you sure it was the smart wheels did that? Whilst the product can be damaging, I wouldn't honestly have envisaged it would do what you have pictured...


which product would you recommend that is safe to use as a regular wheel cleaner without the caustic /acid content??


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## P.A.D (Jun 26, 2008)

Ben Gum said:


> It is not unsafe for regular use, the key is being very aware of the hazards associated. Acid free is easy to recommend but caustic is not - without actually getting hands on products it is impossible to know because the manufacturers almost never have the safety info available (AS are a professionals dream - you can tick every H&S box!). I believe bilberry is caustic free (but isn't great), as is orchard wheel cleanse, I don't know for sure on others... any of the neutral ones would be likewise.
> 
> Don't for a second think that smart wheels is bad, it isn't - it is one of the best. But do remember that it is every bit as aggressive as many acid cleaners.


If you don't mind me asking,

What do you do for a living dude?

I ask because you seem to know quite a lot about H&S and Chemicals/Breakdowns etc..

Russell


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## absolute (Jan 19, 2010)

I get on we'll with bilberry apart from the fact it can stain a white wheel if the wheel is a little oxidised. Very good product. 

I'm keen to know of other very safe cleaners.

I tried the ad cherry. I didn't get on well, rim went a bit chalky. (Diluted)

I don't make a habit of using things neat, as I said, I didn't follow the guidelines because I wanted a quick fix on a car that I bought for my old dear, the front wheels are kerbed badly so they will all be getting refurbished.
Think of it more as a demo displaying the potential of a corrosive rather than an as bashing. Perhaps a lesson never to go wayward of the label.


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

I can't find an msds for bilberry online but can somebody who has bilberry put some neat product into something like an aerosol cap then drop some aluminium into it for 5 mins. Lets see exactly what the reaction is. I believe there are two versions of bilberry so ideally both versions would be good.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Use it all the time and never had an issue. Now, iirc smartwheels is AS first formultaion of coplymer wax remover which was used to remove transport wax when cars were shipped covered in the stuff. It can stain at strong ration but as for corrosion. The picture you posted is of a curbed wheel which looks old curbing by all accounts. The blistering is where water and or product has seeped in under the coating and started to eat its way out. Cant see the issue with the product if im honest.


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

Beau Technique said:


> Use it all the time and never had an issue. Now, iirc smartwheels is AS first formultaion of coplymer wax remover which was used to remove transport wax when cars were shipped covered in the stuff. It can stain at strong ration but as for corrosion. The picture you posted is of a curbed wheel which looks old curbing by all accounts. The blistering is where water and or product has seeped in under the coating and started to eat its way out. Cant see the issue with the product if im honest.


My old E36 had some severe kerbing and corrosion and I used Smart wheels on it all the time at a 10:1 dilution and it didn't damage the wheels further.


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## AaronGTi (Nov 2, 2010)

absolute said:


> I understand how it seems I've overlooked the defect to start with. This isn't the case.
> 
> I did state that I didn't use the product as per label. It was a very wet day today and the wheels would have been wet with me blasting the tyres etc so in effect it wouldn't quite have been neat.
> 
> ...


It's a shame that you now have this view on the product and would consider never using it again all because of user error.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Ben Gum said:


> I agree but it would be an equal shame for anyone reading to dismiss the hazards simply because the OP had used the product incorrectly - it should be a wake up for all to check the label and check the data sheets to make sure you are using the product safely for both your vehicle and your person (hands up if you have an eyewash station or even eyewash bottle available...)


First aid kit and emergency eye wash on stand by and carried at all times. I agree that the negatives do need to be stressed but this once again goes to show that anything can be wrong in the wrong hands. Experience and knowledge answers many a question. If you are unsure of a product yet read its good, jump in at the deep end and spray away then make a mess of things. If you dont understand the basics then you shouldnt be using the products imo.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

Beau Technique said:


> First aid kit and emergency eye wash on stand by and carried at all times. I agree that the negatives do need to be stressed but this once again goes to show that anything can be wrong in the wrong hands. Experience and knowledge answers many a question. If you are unsure of a product yet read its good, jump in at the deep end and spray away then make a mess of things. If you dont understand the basics then you shouldnt be using the products imo.


echo Scott's statement..

and yes I have a first aid kit and eyewash kit.. stupid not to.


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## P.A.D (Jun 26, 2008)

Ben Gum said:


> I agree but it would be an equal shame for anyone reading to dismiss the hazards simply because the OP had used the product incorrectly - it should be a wake up for all to check the label and check the data sheets to make sure you are using the product safely for both your vehicle and your person (hands up if you have an eyewash station or even eyewash bottle available...)


2 Eye wash stations, 1 First Aid kit and 2 extingiushers. Plus done my 2nd first aid course 2 months ago.

H&S a major thing.

Russell


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## Sirmally2 (Feb 28, 2011)

Bottle of eye wash and a full first aid kit in the boot of my car (and i'm only a weekend warrior) :lol:


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

Ben Gum said:


> Oh yes... I think VP used to have a data sheet online but they seem to have removed their data sheets from the web. The irritant and not corrosive does indicate that it is not caustic based although it could equally suggest that it is just not as strong as smart wheels. Im sure someone who has some bilberry could request a data sheet - the supplier cannot legally refuse.


Seems strange to remove msds but there we go! In all honesty products can be labelled as irritants yet still have caustic in them in the form of sodium hydroxide. Iirc isn't it 2% and above sodium hydroxide and the product needs to be labelled as corrosive? It goes back to the coca cola argument in which coke is corrosive in neat form but when diluted becomes safe enough to drink. Obviously you wouldn't drink diluted smart wheels although with some people it wouldn't surprise me if they tried! I've seen people syphon neat TFR from barrels with a pipe and their mouth because a barrel pump was 'too expensive' in their own words!!

I still maintain that smart wheels did not cause that damage in the op's picture even used neat.

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## geoff.mac (Oct 13, 2010)

Smart wheels hasn't caused that bubbling to that wheel, I put some smart wheels on an old wheel that had seen better days, Sprayed it on NEAT and it was left for over 15 minutes then rinsed off, didn't do what your saying has happened to that wheel, In fact by the time I'd finished experimenting with smart wheels and this old wheel that had paint flake, big chips etc on it I'd gone though half a litre of smart wheels, 
Wheel came out clean and certainly no bubbling or the paint, Why neat you ask, because I wanted to try it a different ratio's to see if there where any advantages, Oh and the wheel, they where knackered and were going to be weighed in anyway so it didn't matter what happened to them.
cheers


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## absolute (Jan 19, 2010)

It's not going to do it to every wheel. Every wheel is different


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

absolute said:


> It's not going to do it to every wheel. Every wheel is different


Could you put some of your bilberry into an aerosol cap and drop some bare aluminium into it just out of interest?

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## M4D YN (Nov 24, 2007)

some serious sh*te getting spoke on here :thumb:


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