# Main Dealer sold me a car with accident damage. Help!



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

Hi guys

Need your advice please about the horrible situation I find myself in!

I bought a car from the main dealer (it was an approved used car) 5 months ago. Car came with 12 month warranty.

They have had the car in to do a repair, under warranty and are now saying the car has had accident damage! This is the first time I am hearing about the damage.

When I was first speaking to the dealer about buying the car I clearly asked him (twice!) "Has the car had any accident damage, or had any paint/bodywork repair?" and he said "No" and even said "No - and we would need to tell you if it had any damage.."

So I was misled by the dealer and thought the car had no damage. It clearly has and they have admitted it themselves now.

What can I do? 

I want my money back and I think I asked all the right questions at the time of buying.


----------



## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

I would demand my money back and look at legal options too, you have been mis sold a car that's already been damaged.


----------



## Natalie (Jan 19, 2011)

have you contacted Citizen's Advice?


----------



## Jonnybbad (Jun 12, 2013)

Natalie said:


> have you contacted Citizen's Advice?


That would be my first port of call get some legal advise before going any further at least you will know where you stand


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

It's not unusual for a car to have accident damage. If the car has been repaired to an acceptable level, you won't have any claim. 

If the garage has sold you the car with a 12 months warranty, now won't honour the warranty due to the damage, then that is a bit different.

What is/was the damage?


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

The garage is saying its been in an accident - how do they know, whats the extent of it - all of this needs to be clarified before deciding on a possible course of action

The dealer would have to have "knowingly" sold you the car with accident damage - they could possibly argue that they had no knowledge


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

the car went in for the radiator to be changed as it was leaking. Should be covered under warranty

They are saying that upon inspection of the radiator, it is clear the car had front end damage before.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Buying an approved car means next to nothing. They all source their cars from the same places with the same issues. 

I recently uncovered a BMW dealer, Synter Coventry, trying to rip me off and notified BMW about it. BMW said they were a private garage and could do as they see fit. 

Are they refusing to replace the radiator? 

Are they suggesting you bumped it within your 5 month ownership?


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

they are refusing to replace radiator under warranty. They said car has had damaged before - but didn't accuse me. They said car wasn't sold by them..I said it was, they said yes and they are looking into it...


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

sunnyV5 said:


> they are refusing to replace radiator under warranty. They said car has had damaged before - but didn't accuse me. They said car wasn't sold by them..I said it was, they said yes and they are looking into it...


Surely they are not refusing to replace the radiator under warranty due to it having had previous damage - all sounds very strange

Its a used car, many of which will have been damaged at some point in their life - many new cars are damaged before delivery - its a fact of life

Whats of more significance / relevance is the quality of the repair and in your case - what the hell the damage has got to do with them not replacing the radiator under the warranty they provided (unless its an excluded item under the T's and C's of the cover)


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

I bought the car on the basis of the description: No accident damage

Now they are saying accident damage, so surely car isn't as described. They do a 100 point check apparently as part of their used car policy...it should have been picked up then?


----------



## griffin1907 (Mar 4, 2006)

100 point check? If it's anything like a service '100 point check' that only means 20 wheel bolts, 5 tyres that leaves only 75 points. Not a 100 point check as you might think? 

They may genuinely not have known about the accident damage. Saying that though to not replace the radiator because of it I'd say you defo need legal advise on this one.


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

sunnyV5 said:


> I bought the car on the basis of the description: No accident damage
> Now they are saying accident damage, so surely car isn't as described. They do a 100 point check apparently as part of their used car policy...it should have been picked up then?


100 point check - yes, this checks for general condition and road worthiness - nothing more than basic checks

Did the advert state - no accident damage - if it did not state that then its your word against theirs

If it has been in an accident can you prove that the garage knew this and therefore lied to you?

Do you know for sure its been in an accident?

Do you know the extent of the damage?

These need to be clarified before doing anything else

There is no way you will get your money back - you might get lucky and they offer to buy the car back but they will almost certainly expect to pay less than than you paid as you have had 7 months use of the vehicle


----------



## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

What car is it?

Is it effecting the warranty claim? 

Surly as long as it hasn't been a written off, it shouldn't be an issue. 

I work a reconditioning centre, we do any repairs needed to the cars to make them as good as new. 

Also, you're calling it accidental damage, you shouldn't assume it's been smashed up, it could have just been a scuff on a wing, or even just excessive chips on the bonnet or bumper. 

Also, the dealer wasn't there when the repairs were done, so unless they inspected the car, they wouldn't have known.


----------



## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Was it hpi clear?


----------



## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

Kimo said:


> Was it hpi clear?


this i thought all garages offered this as part of the deal - i dont know what shows up on the hpi i.e. involved in an accident but not reported and repaired by themselves without insurance


----------



## rocozzy (Nov 2, 2015)

OK hope I can help. 
I work for a well known dealer franchise as I lead tech.
So when we get a car in as a tread in or from an action that is going on are site for real sale. We do a visual check. Checking all components are working inside, condition of brakes, bushes, spring's shocks gearbox noise etc etc. But the likes of removing bumpers to check for cross beam damage we don't. And big dealers will not sale any category damaged cars. But if it was repaired by the previous owner on the cheap then the dealer wouldn't of know.
That said, we have had the problem many times before. So if the dealer SAYS that he agrees with you (it will be the after sales manager) then he can go to the sale's manager and explain the situation. The service manager will then bill the sale's manager department. But if it is warranty work, the service manager can put any part's down the warranty line and they will pay for it anyway.
Say the radiator is leaking. Well the air conditioning radiator bolts to it, but let's say that the air conditioning radiator is breaking up. 
I would put in my report something like that I had to cut the air conditioning radiator bolts bracket off as it was sized on and would also need replacing. 
So if something needs removed to get at something then they are ways round it. But like the Cross bar then as I said, the sale's department have a kitty so they can cover things like that. (But if they use it the seller will lose his bonus that he made on selling you the car) but that's how it rolls lol.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Providing the repair was to a good standard then what's the problem ? They or the warranty company might try and get out of the claim because of the accident but depending on how long you have owned the car you might still have to contribute to the repair. I guess 50% of the cars on the road have seen some form of repair some even before they have left the factory.


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

Thanks for all your help and advice guys!

The HPI report they gave me was clear.

Yesterday, when the dealer roadside assistance guy came and looked at the radiator, he straight away asked if it had accident damage as something looked odd with the bolts..I said "not that I know of.." (which is because the dealer told me no accident damage)

The dealer called to say it has "front end damage"...which to me sounds serious, not just a dent etc :s


----------



## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

sunnyV5 said:


> they are refusing to replace radiator under warranty. They said car has had damaged before - but didn't accuse me. They said car wasn't sold by them..I said it was, they said yes and they are looking into it...


I would sit back and let them hang themselves here, you said they have refused to repair the car under warranty due to the previous accident damage, and then just ok can you please put that in writing to confirm this is your point of view.

Then take the letter into the sales department ask to see the manager or director and show them the letter along with your bill of sale and ask how they advise you proceed.

Might be worth while trying to locate the previous owner to find out the extent of the damage may be minor or maybe more serious, if it was more serious then you may have far better grounds to complain.


----------



## rocozzy (Nov 2, 2015)

Is it used car warranty? And not manufacturer's warranty (I.e 3years type)


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

justina3 said:


> I would sit back and let them hang themselves here, you said they have refused to repair the car under warranty due to the previous accident damage, and then just ok can you please put that in writing to confirm this is your point of view.
> 
> Then take the letter into the sales department ask to see the manager or director and show them the letter along with your bill of sale and ask how they advise you proceed.
> 
> Might be worth while trying to locate the previous owner to find out the extent of the damage may be minor or maybe more serious, if it was more serious then you may have far better grounds to complain.


I am going to do just that. I am going to try to get down there today and see what they can say...as I wouldn't be surprised if they now try to say they will replace the radiator for free and damage wasn't that bad.....! Lies...?!


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

Spoke to citizen's advice

They said that it is illegal for the dealer to sell me car with damage if they told me it had no damage. It doesn't matter if the damage is minor or major...still shouldn't be sold.

Citizen's advice said I have been misled and missold. The fact they admitted it has accident damage is key....

I now need to see what the dealer is willing to do!


----------



## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

Get an independent inspection done, it's the only way you will find out how serious (or not) the damage was. They will have to prove the damage wasn't on the car when you bought it as its within 6 months. Remind them of their obligations under the old sale of goods act if they mess you around.


----------



## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

Maybe you should give the dealership a chance before you start getting wound up about it?? 

And again, just because it's had a front end respray, doesn't mean it was smashed up!! 

Anyway, what car is it?


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

sunnyV5 said:


> Spoke to citizen's advice
> 
> They said that it is illegal for the dealer to sell me car with damage if they told me it had no damage. It doesn't matter if the damage is minor or major...still shouldn't be sold.
> 
> ...


How are you going to prove that the salesman told you there was no damage? How can you prove you haven't crashed it in 5 months?

It sounds as if it's purely your word against theirs.

If the radiator hadn't failed, you'd be none the wiser about the accident. Clearly the damage wasn't bad, or the repair impressive enough you couldn't tell.

How old is the car? What mileage is on it?

I'm surprised Citizens Advice have told you that on a used car. It's tough enough on a brand new car, but a used car fit for purpose and acceptable wear and tear are huge factors.


----------



## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

Citizens advise is not what it used to be, i would take what they say with a pinch of salt. 

I would still be looking to the previous owner to confirm what damage happened, this would prove you didnt cause the damage and if they sold the car to the dealer and disclosed the damage to the dealer. 

what has the dealer said yet ?


----------



## REVERSiN (Sep 28, 2015)

sunnyV5 said:


> Spoke to citizen's advice
> 
> They said that it is illegal for the dealer to sell me car with damage if they told me it had no damage. It doesn't matter if the damage is minor or major...still shouldn't be sold.
> 
> ...


Do you have any proof that the car had the damage beore buying it ? Or else a proof that the dealer said it had no accidents.

As you mentioned radiator damage then it had a mid to hard accident since there is a steel frame protecting the radiator just behind the bumper that guard is hard as hell and would need 40 mph. To deform or less with a wall so let's say it is a relatively good impact.

Of you looks at the front bumper notice the lines around headlights and the gap between the front wings and good cover if you see anything that is unequal or straight then those parts were changed or to say the least body shop'ed it's hard to fix such things to make them look oem
With a dealer like yours that.he wouldn't bother with that.


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

sunnyV5 said:


> Spoke to citizen's advice
> They said that it is illegal for the dealer to sell me car with damage if they told me it had no damage. It doesn't matter if the damage is minor or major...still shouldn't be sold.
> Citizen's advice said I have been misled and missold. The fact they admitted it has accident damage is key....
> I now need to see what the dealer is willing to do!


What constitutes damage - a stonechip that has been touched in, a replacement alloy wheel due to one being buckled

I'd take what CAB with a very large pinch of salt

Have they admitted there is damage - I thought a technician said there was damage - that is not an admission - that is that persons opinion

You have to prove categorically that you were told that there was no accident damage AND that the dealership knew that there there was - thats not going to be easy to prove

The fact that you have had the car for 7 months and were none the wiser suggests that if there was damage it had been repaired to a high standard

You seem very quick to state that you want your money back without giving the dealer a chance to respond - I'd suggest taking the "reasonable" approach as you going in making all sorts of demands will just see them act in a similar way which will not get you anywhere without one hell of a battle

The best you can hope for realistically is your money back less an amount to cover your 7 months worth of usage of the car which at no point have you stated has caused you any problems


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Citizens advice are wrong, the salesman probably has no idea if the car has been damaged or not so has done nothing wrong. The dealership might be admitting it has been in an accident but as it hasn't shown up on hpi but without further investigations they would have never had known. It sounds more like you want an excuse to get rid of the car.


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

andy665 said:


> What constitutes damage - a stonechip that has been touched in, a replacement alloy wheel due to one being buckled
> 
> I'd take what CAB with a very large pinch of salt
> 
> ...


Thanks - yes I will be reasonable. Just been in a bit of shock/anger today...

Yeh - I think you are right re the best I can hope for. I will just have to see what they say

Thanks again to all with your points and advice


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

Citizens advice said that the goods supplied must match their description and that the dealership described the car as never being in an accident, having had no bodywork or paint before...


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

sunnyV5 said:


> Citizens advice said that the goods supplied must match their description and that the dealership described the car as never being in an accident, having had no bodywork or paint before...


How can you prove this?

Why would you take a salesman's statement as factual? You can see the car as much as he can. You didn't see any damage either.

If you read many of the AUC terms and conditions, most talk about making sure the car is HPI clear and not involved in serious accidents. Nothing about normal accident damage as they do allow for that.

You've still not answered any questions on the car. What car is it, how old and what kind of mileage?


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

sunnyV5 said:


> Citizens advice said that the goods supplied must match their description and that the dealership described the car as never being in an accident, having had no bodywork or paint before...


If it said that on the advert and you have a copy of it then they have not got a leg to stand on - I have never before seen that on a dealer advert as it is a stupid thing to claim

If its what you were told then you have little or no chance of success as its clearly your word against theirs


----------



## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Kerr said:


> Why would you take a salesman's statement as factual? You can see the car as much as he can. You didn't see any damage either.


As he's the 'expert', and company spokesperson you *can *rely on his statements as fact. Or he could say 'not as far as we're aware'.

Of course, proving what he said is something else entirely!


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

Bero said:


> As he's the 'expert', and company spokesperson you *can *rely on his statements as fact. Or he could say 'not as far as we're aware'.
> 
> Of course, proving what he said is something else entirely!


Yeh - he is the "expert" not me!


----------



## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

What car is it?


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

sunnyV5 said:


> Yeh - he is the "expert" not me!


A salesman is a salesman, not a detailer or a bodyshop worker. He might not have known, or offered information as he knew it was off the record and more likely to get him a sale. You'll never prove what was said and the company will refer you to the AUC terms and conditions.

Is there any reason you won't answer any questions on the car? I'm guessing it's quite an old car?


----------



## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

What the dealer has written about the car in advertising it, and when trying to sell it to you will only be their opinion and to the best of their knowledge, and can't ever be taken as absolute fact.

If the dealer knew it had had damage and told you it hadn't then it would be a different story, they're not allowed to outright lie about it. However, how are you going to prove the dealer knew the car had had damage before they sold it to you.

The vast majority of repairs will never show in a cars history unless it is categorised as an insirance write off.

A dealer can't be expected to partially strip down and inspect every vehicle they sell, they have to go on a brief external inspection and an hpi check.


----------



## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Harry_p said:


> What the dealer has written about the car in advertising it,* and when trying to sell it to you will only be their opinion * and to the best of their knowledge, and can't ever be taken as absolute fact.


Definitely not true, things like 'suitable for your needs' etc are opinion. But direct questions like: -

Will you replace the front tyres if I do a deal today?

or

Does it have a full size spare wheel?

or

Has the car been involved in an accident?​
Has nothing to do with opinion.

What if you walk in and ask about a car that has not been advertised yet? Can they lie about every aspect of the car and have no issue as it's only 'opinion'?! Yes, sir, it's an 8 litre, 2 twin turbo, it does 0-60mph in 2 seconds and does 150mpg?! Comes with lifetime free servicing and 10 year MOT guarantee.

The garage must be kicking their selves that they never checked who sold it before raising this issue with you. :wall: They would just have fixed it and carried on otherwise.

See what the garage come back with and see what you think. I don't think it should be a big deal, as suggested an independent inspection could put your mind at rest.


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Bero said:


> Has the car been involved in an accident?[/INDENT]
> 
> Has nothing to do with opinion.
> 
> ...


But the dealer has yet to concede that it has indeed been involved in an accident - OP has been told by a technician that there has been damage so its merely the comment of one person

With todays frontal crash can impact structures it could have been a very low speed impact, cars are designed to crumple progressively and easily from a light impact to absorb the impact energy and keep it away from occupants


----------



## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

Bero said:


> Definitely not true, things like 'suitable for your needs' etc are opinion. But direct questions like: -
> 
> Will you replace the front tyres if I do a deal today?
> 
> ...


What they say will be based on their opinion and the facts they are aware of at the time.

Technically I suppose they should say " to the best of my knowledge it has never been in an accident " but dealers aren't likely to say something like that as it immediately makes you think it must have had an accident and they're trying to cover it up!

If you expect a dealer to know the entire history of every car they sell and whether any have had any form of accident damage at any point and expect a 100% accurate answer then you're very naive.

What level should the " any accident damage " go into? Would a pdr repair on a door ding constitute previous accident damage? Would a resprayed bumper to repair stone chips constitute accident damage, after all, people don't purposely damage their front bumper with stones do they?


----------



## rocozzy (Nov 2, 2015)

Like I said before. I work for Vauxhall. Dealerships can not sell a car that was involved in a accident that has ended up with a category C, etc etc cause that's what Show's up on h.p.I.
But if it was just a little bump and the 3 party said that he will pay for the repair without going through the insurance then it's not recorded on h.p.I or anywhere for that matter. 
So if he sells it on or trades it in or what ever then the new owner would not have a clue, and I don't think that he would say it was hit because it would devalue it slightly. 
So is it a used car warranty? And not a new car warranty that is still within manufacturing warranty?
As said the service manager can bill the used car team if he believes that it is the fault it was there and not seen unless the bumper was removed. 
Bit more information would be great so we can help you out more. 
Car, year, dealership or back street dealer? Etc etc.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

So if I'd purchased the car from you as a private sale and you were the 4th owner, the first being hertz, the second being a company that used it as a pool car then a private owner and I asked you the same question how would you have answered the question about crash damage ? At the end of the day it was a used car, it could have been a low speed accident that was done in your possession while parked up.

If the radiator was that badly damaged in an accident then there might have been signs of replacement panels, wings. Bonnet etc... Some of these are date stamped by manufacturers but if the damage was that extensive then the chances are they would have replaced the radiator too.


----------



## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Harry_p said:


> What they say will be based on their opinion and the facts they are aware of at the time.
> 
> *Technically I suppose they should say " to the best of my knowledge it has never been in an accident " *but dealers aren't likely to say something like that as it immediately makes you think it must have had an accident and they're trying to cover it up!


I know what you mean, but they cannot lie just because they think it makes them sound less defensive! After being asked a direct questions your answer is not an opinion, unless you say so. You're exactly right about what they should say, or another connotation that does not sound so defensive, something like: -

"We've done our 10,000 point check as part of the used car guarantee and everything checks out / looks clean." or something along those lines. That should satisfy the customer....although not directly answering the question.

Of course most garages will say things when they don't 100% know as fact and nothing ever comes back on them.....and if does it can be dealt with it on a case by case basis.

Lets not get into the semantics about a stone chip or replacement windscreen being accident damage. Ultimately if it went to court, a judge would almost certainly agree with the defendant that it's not considered accident damage.

In this case it appears there has been enough mechanical damage/deformation that the garage considered not honouring a warranty claim.



andy665 said:


> But the dealer has yet to concede that it has indeed been involved in an accident - OP has been told by a technician that there has been damage so its merely the comment of one person


The dealer _have _conceded this, after being inspected by a professional mechanic, who formed the opinion (that word again :lol there is accident damage, the OP was relayed this message by someone authorised to speak on behalf of the company.

Of course they may go for a second opinion from another professional mechanic, who may form another opinion.



SteveTDCi said:


> So if I'd purchased the car from you as a private sale and you were the 4th owner, the first being hertz, the second being a company that used it as a pool car then a private owner and I asked you the same question how would you have answered the question about crash damage ?


Rules for a private sale are very different, the seller is not expected to be an expert.

In honesty if I was asked that question I would say I'm the 4th owner, but I've not seen anything to suggest it has been in an accident, or I'd point to a clear HPI check (which I know bears no resemblance to whether it did or did not have an accident)

If I had the front end resprayed I would freely say that, and the invoice would be in with the rest of the car stuff.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm still curious why the OP refuses to answer anything about the car. He's been asked countless times and always skipped over simple questions. There's always two sides to a story, but when I only get one side with the bits the person wants me to know, I can't help but feel I'm being kept in the dark for a reason.

It would be interesting to hear why they refused the claim. Was the radiator original and suffered minor damage in an accident? Was the radiator not a standard part fitted post accident? 

If the garage sold the car as AUC with 12 months warranty, they'd surely replace it under either of the circumstances, unless they thought it wasn't anything to do with them? 

The warranty is a private company, so the garage aren't liable for the cost. They've got to have a reason for refusing the claim.

It'd be interesting to hear more about the circumstances, but the OP did go quiet yesterday.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Is there any link between this thread and the car we are talking about now?

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=361323


----------



## Natalie (Jan 19, 2011)

Kerr said:


> Is there any link between this thread and the car we are talking about now?
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=361323


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Yes I realise the rules are different between private and trade but the point is still the same, the salesman probably isn't an expert in the matter either in the same way that if you asked a private person if the car had been in an Accident then they wouldn't know. If the car didn't show up on a hpi report as cat c or d then what's the issue. Cars get painted all of the time even before leaving the factory.

If the link Kerr has posted is the same car then it seems like the op new it had been painted and didn't worry about rejecting the car then. It's only now some months later that they feel it's a death trap. As its a used car you would expect the car to have some wear and tear in line with its age and mileage. The issue should be about who pays for the radiator, given its accident damage that could have come from someone bumping into the car at a supermarket why should the warranty cover this its not a failure of the part it's been damaged, it could be the current owner has damaged it or it could have been the first owner. My corsa had its radiator let go, I just spent £90 on a new one and 1 hour fitting it.


----------



## J306TD (May 19, 2008)

Kerr said:


> Is there any link between this thread and the car we are talking about now?
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=361323


Just read the entire thread. Something fishy going on here.


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

Thanks again for your comments! 

Yep it is the same car I asked about the orange peel - the rear bumper paint was flaking off next to the number plate, so the dealer sprayed it before I collected the car but I could see orange peel effect, so was asking for your advice on how to reduce the effect! Hopefully you don't think it is anything fishy on my part as I haven't done anything dodgy....

The car is question is a VW Golf GTI, mk6 model

I will speak to the dealer this weekend and see what they are able to do...


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

Kerr said:


> I'm still curious why the OP refuses to answer anything about the car. He's been asked countless times and always skipped over simple questions. There's always two sides to a story, but when I only get one side with the bits the person wants me to know, I can't help but feel I'm being kept in the dark for a reason.
> 
> It would be interesting to hear why they refused the claim. Was the radiator original and suffered minor damage in an accident? Was the radiator not a standard part fitted post accident?
> 
> ...


sorry went quiet - was just really busy with work


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

rocozzy said:


> Is it used car warranty? And not manufacturer's warranty (I.e 3years type)


VW approved used car warranty


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

Kerr said:


> How are you going to prove that the salesman told you there was no damage? How can you prove you haven't crashed it in 5 months?
> 
> It sounds as if it's purely your word against theirs.
> 
> ...


Hi - I didn't want to post age of car or mileage as I get worried about data security etc as someone I know had his car cloned because of photos he posted on a BMW forum :s


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

Bero said:


> Definitely not true, things like 'suitable for your needs' etc are opinion. But direct questions like: -
> 
> Will you replace the front tyres if I do a deal today?
> 
> ...


Not sure what you meant about the garage fixing it....? Fixing the accident damage? The damage was fixed by someone (not sure if dealership or previous owner etc) but if they could spot the accident damage so quickly after just looking at the engine bay (without needing to remove bumpers etc) then they could have told me that during the time I was looking to buy the car...

well that's what I hoped they would have done..but they didn't


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

andy665 said:


> But the dealer has yet to concede that it has indeed been involved in an accident - OP has been told by a technician that there has been damage so its merely the comment of one person
> 
> With todays frontal crash can impact structures it could have been a very low speed impact, cars are designed to crumple progressively and easily from a light impact to absorb the impact energy and keep it away from occupants


Good point re light impacts

Not sure if I mentioned earlier - but the VW recovery guy who picked up the car also said it has had front end accident damage. And he noticed that from just opening the bonnet and looking around for the radiator leak...


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

SteveTDCi said:


> Yes I realise the rules are different between private and trade but the point is still the same, the salesman probably isn't an expert in the matter either in the same way that if you asked a private person if the car had been in an Accident then they wouldn't know. If the car didn't show up on a hpi report as cat c or d then what's the issue. Cars get painted all of the time even before leaving the factory.
> 
> If the link Kerr has posted is the same car then it seems like the op new it had been painted and didn't worry about rejecting the car then. It's only now some months later that they feel it's a death trap. As its a used car you would expect the car to have some wear and tear in line with its age and mileage. The issue should be about who pays for the radiator, given its accident damage that could have come from someone bumping into the car at a supermarket why should the warranty cover this its not a failure of the part it's been damaged, it could be the current owner has damaged it or it could have been the first owner. My corsa had its radiator let go, I just spent £90 on a new one and 1 hour fitting it.


Yeh I am most worried about how dangerous the car is...if it is?

A bumper being repainted isn't that big a deal, as its not structural. But accident damage that caused serious damage is more worrying to me for sure


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

People won't clone your car. Just hide the plate like other people do. A description of a Golf isn't going to tell us anything, there's a lot of them.

I see your other thread about the Golf. That shade of paint is hard to match. If it had been painted, I'd guess you'd be able to see it when the light is correct. You've got the eye to see the rear wasn't right, so the front either hasn't been done, or if it has, it is a far higher standard.

The back bumper has been painted, the front bumper might have been painted or replaced too. Maybe just a minor bump, or pushing into something has compressed the bumper into radiator and it has held on for a while? 

You'd be better getting an independent bodyshop to have a look. If you haven't noticed anything else wrong in 5 months, it can't be bad at all.


----------



## J306TD (May 19, 2008)

Dint wait till the weekend ring tomorrow. As the people who you want to speak to might not be in


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

*Update*

Dealer has "investigated" and the bodyshop team have confirmed there is accident damage and the front bumper metal bar (the bar behind the bumper) is damage due to a front-end accident.


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

They are investigating if the bumpers etc were replaced by VW genuine parts

Any helpful advice please as to what I can say or do?


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

If the front crash bar is damaged then I am almost certain it will have been a low peed impact - this bar is designed to absorb impact damage, if it was not damaged enough to be replaced then I reckon the impact speed is likely to be less than 10mph. The bumper bar is a "sacrificial lamb" in terms of impact damage - I doubt you have anything to be concerned about

Just so you know I am talking from experience I have spent much of the last month taking sales staff around a Euro NCAP crash tested vehicle and have a reasonable understanding of how crash structures are designed and work


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

andy665 said:


> If the front crash bar is damaged then I am almost certain it will have been a low peed impact - this bar is designed to absorb impact damage, if it was not damaged enough to be replaced then I reckon the impact speed is likely to be less than 10mph. The bumper bar is a "sacrificial lamb" in terms of impact damage - I doubt you have anything to be concerned about
> 
> Just so you know I am talking from experience I have spent much of the last month taking sales staff around a Euro NCAP crash tested vehicle and have a reasonable understanding of how crash structures are designed and work


thanks

Interesting that if damaged at low speed it wouldn't be replaced. But can this bar be replaced easily?


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

sunnyV5 said:


> thanks
> Interesting that if damaged at low speed it wouldn't be replaced. But can this bar be replaced easily?


It depends on:

1. Whether it needed to be replaced
2. If repair done cheaply as possible whether they could get away with not replacing it

As part of the crash structure these parts are designed to be easily and cost effectively replaced - a key element that contributes to car insurance groups is the cost of repair so crash structures are designed with this very much in mind


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

andy665 said:


> It depends on:
> 
> 1. Whether it needed to be replaced
> 2. If repair done cheaply as possible whether they could get away with not replacing it
> ...


Thanks for the info and your advice


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

Just a quick update - dealer said the damage to the radiator was caused by the fan...doesn't make sense to me..but they have fixed it under warranty


----------



## REVERSiN (Sep 28, 2015)

sunnyV5 said:


> Just a quick update - dealer said the damage to the radiator was caused by the fan...doesn't make sense to me..but they have fixed it under warranty


Congratulations,so it's a done deal it doesn't matter now how it happened they fixed it under warrenty. Enjoy the car mate


----------



## J306TD (May 19, 2008)

sunnyV5 said:


> Just a quick update - dealer said the damage to the radiator was caused by the fan...doesn't make sense to me..but they have fixed it under warranty


Can and does happen. Spent 4 years in the HVAC manufacturing industry. Usually down to a poorly fitted or unbalanced fan. Also wrong fan could have been fitted


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

J306TD said:


> Can and does happen. Spent 4 years in the HVAC manufacturing industry. Usually down to a poorly fitted or unbalanced fan. Also wrong fan could have been fitted


You were right :thumb:

Due to issue with the way the fan was mounted it caused damage to the radiator


----------



## J306TD (May 19, 2008)

sunnyV5 said:


> You were right :thumb:
> 
> Due to issue with the way the fan was mounted it caused damage to the radiator


That's very poor quality from the radiator / fan manufacturers. That should have been picked up.

Have they replaced the radiator and fan / shroud assembly?


----------



## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

So just to confirm

Car hasn't been crashed


----------



## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

Not sure regarding the crash. The only thing they could confirm is that the radiator that failed wasn't the original one. Looks like radiator was changed in the past (perhaps due to a common fault on mk6 golf radiators where the bottom weld fails) but when it was replaced the fan wasn't mounted properly 

The dealer has been really good and changed radiator and fan assembly under warranty

But the dealer did refuse the repair in the first place and claimed accident damage caused the issue. Which was the reason for the start of this thread. But luckily all sorted now!


----------



## great gonzo (Nov 4, 2010)

I love a happy ending. 

Gonz.


----------



## Bungleaio (Jul 18, 2010)

I had a mini a few years ago, the handbrake failed and it resulted in the front end being smashed up after it rolled into a garage. It was fixed by BMW. A couple of months later i was stationary at traffic lights at the end of a dual carriageway, car behind smashed into the back. Again it was rebuilt by BMW.

I part exchanged it in and the garage didn't ask anything so I didn't say anything. Maybe I should have done but I didn't. I'm sure it's still being driven around now and the current owner is none the wiser.

Cars get damaged all the time, even brand new ones before registration get dents etc taken out.


----------

