# Dodo Juice Lime Prime - product and politics unravelled



## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Hi guys

I have been away on holiday for a couple of weeks, so not been able to do much more than log in occasionally from internet cafes. Anyway, thanks to pj for holding the fort somewhat and for helping with Coxy's DW meet. A few points were brought up in another thread, and although most points were heard out and dealt with by forum members (thanks all  ) it is always worth having a recap for those who are interested. Unfortunately, hidden agendas and politics came into play, so the thread widened in subject matter, but I will never shy away from a grilling or a sly comment as we don't have anything to hide. (Unlike certain people who use fake log-ins. )

SAFE FROM SCRATCHING?

We have always said, from its very conception, that Lime Prime contains micro-abrasives. You will find that many 'pre-wax cleansers' do. In fact, as Rubbishboy points out, if you look at the ingredients for HDC and then cross-reference Kapolite (similar to kaolite, kaolin etc), this ingredient may also have mild abrasive properties  Any product with any kind of abrasive will be a friend or a foe when used, depending on a variety of factors in how it's used; as pj says, we extensively tested the product and sought counsel from many detailers to see whether it was too mild or too strong. They said it was just right, so we went with the current formula. Why did we make it mildly abrasive rather than just a cleaner fluid? Well, it allows for better cleaning properties, especially in terms of removing previous wax layers, and many detailers like the mild cutting action. It certainly isn't unusual in being a pre-wax cleanser that is also a mild polish. We know of rival products causing problems due to their abrasiveness, despite some people eulogising about them being completely safe - few products are, especially when human beings make and use them. The simple fact is that for the vast majority of users, Lime Prime does work (better than similar products according to many), and is safe to use on virtually all paint finishes 99+% of the time. No-one will claim 100% safety or success with polishes, because of the wide variation in paint finishes, methods of application and even atmospheric conditions when they are being applied. For us, a couple of cases where Lime Prime hasn't worked for customers is a couple too many, but it will be largely unavoidable when 1000's of cars have already been primed by amateur and professional detailers to date. Please try the product for yourself, on a small area first if unsure, and come to your own conclusions. We have had overwhelmingly positive feedback at all levels and stand by the product absolutely. For a small company to create (rather than just rebottle, as one major manufacturer does) a bespoke polish/pre-wax cleanser that is now considered 'best in class' by many, for about half the price of the 'benchmark' competitor is a credit to our chemist partners and of benefit to all consumers.

PURE CLEANSER?

Because even the mildest polishes worry some people, we will do a version of LP at some point early next year that will be completely free of any kind of abrasive and will basically be a pure glaze. It was, however, important for us to launch Lime Prime in a very general formula to begin with.

CAUSE OR EFFECT?

When comparing one polish or pre-wax cleanser to another, it is always difficult to tell what is cause and what is effect. One pro-detailer told me that he thought LP was rather TOO good at unmasking swirls already in the paint. In some instances, it may seem like Lime Prime is causing swirls when really it is unmasking them. So many products contain fillers, it is difficult to know what product is hiding them, what is unmasking them and what is creating them. It is a matter of fact that any polish has the capacity to swirl or scratch, but that sometimes the cause may be unrelated to the polish itself as there are so many variables (applicator, MF used for removal etc.).

POLISH *AND* PRE-WAX CLEANSE?

Ultimately, wax can be applied to any clean painted surface and if the surface is fully polished, there will be far less benefit in applying Lime Prime first. Some people like to do so, others don't. If worried about applying more abrasives (even if very mild) to the surface, then don't use Lime Prime and go straight to the wax.

BATCH NUMBERING?

All Dodo waxes are batch numbered. Because Lime Prime is easier to manufacture (there is no 'setting' involved) and far more consistent to make, there is no need to batch number Lime Prime, at least not when we make about 100 units at a time and know which 4 or 5 resellers end up with that batch. When we make 100,000 units per day, in 8 or 9 different plants, or churn the products out to thousands of resellers like the worldwide mass market manufacturers do, then the situation will be different. However, it would do no harm to batch number Lime Prime, so we may end up doing so, just as an extra measure of quality control. We test any product returned back to us, but have been extremely happy so far with the quality of all our products and the quality control systems. We are also happy with the labelling and market positioning of Lime Prime. It says it's a pre-wax cleanser, it is. It says it contains micro-abrasives, it does. It says it can be applied by hand or machine, it can. In skilled hands, better results may be achieved by machine, but you can't write a guide to detailing on the back of a label.

POLITICS AND TALL POPPIES

It is a very British thing to have a pop at people or companies doing well, so we take the sniping comments by Lucy and the comments made by 'her' friends in our stride; they show we must be doing something right (at least the marketing  ), especially in so short a time. Sure, pj and I have never professed to be detailing kings or pc wielding maniacs; we're just amateur detailing enthusiasts and professional wax manufacturers (it's why we pay close attention to the opinions of the very best detailers in the country to make sure the products are good and doing what they're meant to). And yes, it has been just over 6 months since launch, or 5 minutes in wax making history terms (not counting reseach and development time). But that's like saying Lewis Hamilton has to be a poor driver as he only started last season or Yahoo must be better than Google as it has been around longer  And if we have already achieved a lot that people like in '5 mins' what will the next hour hold? You'll have to wait and see. The new Doublewax, and other future products, will be the reward to our friends, customers and stalkers(!) and we sincerely hope that Lucy leaves these products well alone and leaves their enjoyment to others :thumb: 

All the best
DF


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## lois97 (Jul 1, 2006)

As you say, always someone trying to knock a winner in this country!!.
Keep up the good work and great products:thumb: DW members know the score.Merry x mas Lee.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Thanks for the clarification Dom - Lucy and "her" mates seem to be another cyber cell of saddos and we are on the case to establish exactly who "she" really is :wave:


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## visor (Sep 8, 2007)

thanks for the info. i will certainly try LP next time i was my car :thumb:


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Thanks for the clarity. 

As I'm about to become a new LP user, it would also be helpful if you could provide your 'best practice' guide to using the product by hand and machine, as while several pro's have given their experiences it would be great to hear it straight from the Dodo's mouth


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## Mark M (Nov 29, 2006)

Dodo Rules, end of


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## Finerdetails (Apr 30, 2006)

good post and clarification


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## kk1966 (Aug 8, 2007)

I think that should just about cover all the angles:thumb:

EDIT: Oh, and welcome back to the cold Dom


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## ahaydock (Jan 4, 2007)

Nice post Dom, thank!


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## Ronnie (Nov 15, 2006)

Yep Dom.. Thanks for the honest and clear post. It is great to hear honest views from a company and unfortunatly as usual some people try to scupper a good thing. With an honest approach to business like that I wish U and PJ all the best in the future as it is a great product!!!


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## glyn waxmaster (Dec 20, 2006)

good post Dom.


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## JEFF (Feb 21, 2007)

Nice of you to clarify things Dom,only been using LP a couple of months myself but Im very happy indeed with it.......Your doing a great job chaps:thumb:


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## s1mmo440 (Feb 19, 2007)

Excellent post Dom and I for one would not use it on customers cars or my own cars if I had any doubts in it. Its a fantastic product and would recommend it to anyone over others on the market! Well Done. :thumb: 

I think 'lucy' should get a public unmasking!!!!!!!


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## Ronnie (Nov 15, 2006)

s1mmo440 said:


> I think 'lucy' should get a public unmasking!!!!!!!


name and shame!!!!


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## adb (Jul 13, 2006)

Well said DODO.

I think there was a lot of confusion over how and what Lime Prime fundamentally is and how the abbraisive should be treated - which you seem to have cleared up.

The results i was getting where i found swirls were being induced was when i was using by hand. When i switched to machine application, i was not only finding that no swirling was being introduced but that the LP was able to remove light swirls and finish down to a crystal sharp finish.

I think it's down to application versus paint type and the only way to discover how best to use the product is through trial and error. If you don't achieve the result you're after initially, then vary your technique until you do. It's what i did and i couldn't be happier with the results ultimately achieved!

And that was before the two layers of Blue Velvet topped with two layers of Purple Haze...


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

It's certainly far better at cleaning for having the abrasives - even neat fairy liquid or IPA don't have the same cleaning power.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Good read and will be keeping an eye on the LP "Glaze" when it comes to fruition.


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

Great post.

I have used ***** HD Cleanse, Swissvax Cleaner Fluid and Dodo Lime Prime and compared them back to back on my customers cars - I reach for the Dodo Lime Prime everytime now... 

In using it on over 30 cars so far I've not had any issue with it at all... I only wish there was a more abrasive product for paint correction thats as easy to use :lol:

Such a great product


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## Phil H (May 14, 2006)

A great post and read cheers  I will be looking forward to the DODO pure glaze next year and won't be giving up on Lime Prime at all. I am very impressed with the service from Dom and PJ. All comapnies should be like this.

Thanks for your help with the LP issue and to everyone else who offered advice etc


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Great post :thumb: 

I have my own opinion of who Lucy is, think its pretty obvious too!


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## steve8582 (Jun 28, 2007)

Quality post Dom :thumb:


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Thanks for all the comments. As you can see, I was a bit jetlagged putting that lot together only a few hours after landing at Heathrow :thumb: 

I'm sure Lucy will be unmasked at some stage, much to everyone's surprise and pity   I think it is fair to say that she is hardly the most impartial poster on a Dodo thread


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## s1mmo440 (Feb 19, 2007)

Dodo Factory said:


> Thanks for all the comments. As you can see, I was a bit jetlagged putting that lot together only a few hours after landing at Heathrow :thumb:
> 
> I'm sure Lucy will be unmasked at some stage, much to everyone's surprise and pity   I think it is fair to say that she is hardly the most impartial poster on a Dodo thread


I have my thoughts to who it is


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## stupidmonkfish (Sep 4, 2006)

Who is this "Lucy", lets name and shame right now.

As for Dodo products, i think they are fantastic, best products you can buy in that price range.


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## s1mmo440 (Feb 19, 2007)

If it is who I think they know all about good marketing , but I may be well off the mark and wont say cause if wrong how much of a [email protected]*r will I be lol 




also add a little saying, - 'biting the hand that fed you' springs to mind, or something along that lines. mmmmmmmm puzzles and riddles


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## stupidmonkfish (Sep 4, 2006)

^^ i see


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

I'm pretty sure most people will guess correctly as to who it is....if it ever comes out!...


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## n1ckt001 (Oct 9, 2007)

Besides all the politics that always seem to pop up in these situations, I am pleased to see a company that is more than happy to address all questions/issues people may be having with a product and address them all frankly and honestly...you Dodo folks are a breath of fresh air.

After talking to Marc at Krystal-Kleen last weekend and him giving me a whistle stop tour of the range I have my very own bottle of LP on its way and I cant wait to try it out!!


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## Deanoecosse (Mar 15, 2007)

stupidmonkfish said:


> Who is this "Lucy", lets name and shame right now.


Don't know about "Lucy", I think the name "PUSSY" is more apt.


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

*i have to admit*

As someone new to detailing, the fact that Dodo seem to be the only manufacturer on these forums offering advice and answering questions is both reassuring and great advertising as they are accessible and they obviously care about their customers.

It certainly means that i have the most info about their products and leads me to want to buy them.

Coupled with the excellent reviews of detailers and owners alike, it must be good for business. I doubt this is lost on Dom and PJ but, it is having the desired effect.

Will be after some LP and Blue Velvet/ Purple Haze after Crimbo. Or maybe even The Double. This is going to be an expensive hobby


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

Clark said:


> I'm pretty sure most people will guess correctly as to who it is....if it ever comes out!...


i have no idea who it is, somebody to do with another rival wax maker im guessing?


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Welcome back Dom, great post and thread, iv hd no problem with the LP on hard and soft paint in all conditions its been easy to use and done its job 100%


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

ianFRST said:


> i have no idea who it is, somebody to do with another rival wax maker im guessing?


I'm saying nowt if/untill it all comes out!


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## kk1966 (Aug 8, 2007)

n1ckt001 said:


> After talking to Marc at Krystal-Kleen last weekend and him giving me a whistle stop tour of the range I have my very own bottle of LP on its way and I cant wait to try it out!!


Another convert to the nest then Nick:thumb: :wave:

Its a bit ironic really that Lucy came on here to do a whole lot of slagging off of our feathered friends and has inadvertently, actually promoted the company.

The way things turn out huh


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Clark said:


> I'm saying nowt if/untill it all comes out!


this is going to be fun if it comes out.... I suspect I know who they are referring to and I wonder if it ever will :lol:


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## rockape (Feb 18, 2007)

i was very impressed with the results of lp at the cornish meet in november, so much so i bought a bottle. and will defo be buying more when that runs out.
top product and top price aswell:thumb:


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## megaboost (Feb 4, 2007)

I haven't got a clue who the secret hidden second account creating mentalist is but if someone wants to PM me with the gossip I won't tell anyone


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## A20 LEE (Feb 20, 2007)

someone PM me, who's Lucy?. Suspense is killing me:lol:


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## megaboost (Feb 4, 2007)

A20 LEE said:


> someone PM me, who's Lucy?. Suspense is killing me:lol:


I can help you with that one...

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/search.php?do=finduser&u=9171

5 posts, all on the same theme


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## paddy328 (Mar 4, 2007)

Good reply dom. I will be ordering myself some lp soon, after what i saw it did on the black v8 vantage in the studio section. I spoke to pj at length at coxy's meet and he was a nice guy and knew his stuff. 

On who lucy is, i had no idea, but i do now if the biting the hand that feeds you thing and "marketing" thing is true.


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## GlynRS2 (Jan 21, 2006)

A great post Dom. It just goes to show how genuine you are, I can't think of any other wax manufacturers that would bother to do the same. All the Dodo Juice products I have used have been superb and I am happy to recommend them :thumb:


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## kk1966 (Aug 8, 2007)

A20 LEE said:


> someone PM me, who's Lucy?. Suspense is killing me:lol:


And ME TOO............pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee

Im not going to bed until somebody does


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## stupidmonkfish (Sep 4, 2006)

Krystal-Kleen said:


> And ME TOO............pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee
> 
> Im not going to bed until somebody does


Me too, have an idea but would like to know for sure:thumb:


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Thanks for writing that and straightening it up..:thumb: 

Nice to hear from the horses mouth...thx...

Must admit ive always found Lp a pleasure to use and easyily applied and removed in most situations. Point taken about batch numbers etc..


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## s1mmo440 (Feb 19, 2007)

This could turn into the biggest plot ever 'who Lucy is', even bigger then who shot JR!!!  

The posts do not seem very articulate from them - prob because this person had no-one writing it for them....just at a guess. :thumb:


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## n1ckt001 (Oct 9, 2007)

Krystal-Kleen said:


> Another convert to the nest then Nick:thumb: :wave:


Yep, in a flash of inspiration I thought 'what if posty couldnt deliver and shop below signed for it'...so went down and asked and there was my box from CYC.

Not sure any christmas presents will stack up to the latest parcel!!
Thinking it might get a run out tomorrow, though on my Dads car I think...
...mine will get full treatment after wetsanding stone chips


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## Mister-Jimbo (Nov 29, 2006)

someone please pm me too! i wanna know who lucy is!!!


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## DE 1981 (Aug 17, 2007)

Me to its killing me, she sounds like a naughty girl


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## Mister-Jimbo (Nov 29, 2006)

Gavb said:


> Me to its killing me, she sounds like a naughty girl


:devil: :lol:


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## kk1966 (Aug 8, 2007)

Gavb said:


> Me to its killing me, she sounds like a naughty girl


And naughty girls need punishing dont they..............oops wrong forum


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## DE 1981 (Aug 17, 2007)

Gavb said:


> Me to its killing me, she sounds like a naughty girl





Krystal-Kleen said:


> And naughty girls need punishing dont they..............oops wrong forum


enough about your private life :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

:lol:


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## kk1966 (Aug 8, 2007)

Gavb said:


> enough about your private life :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Sorry guys..... better get back to the members pages at Dodo :lol:


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Pj and I will write who Lucy is on the inside of every jar of Dodo Juice, right at the bottom, only visible when the jar is empty. LOL 

Well, she did say I knew something about marketing :thumb:


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## DE 1981 (Aug 17, 2007)

Dodo Factory said:


> Pj and I will write who Lucy is on the inside of every jar of Dodo Juice, right at the bottom, only visible when the jar is empty. LOL
> 
> Well, she did say I knew something about marketing :thumb:


nice :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## s1mmo440 (Feb 19, 2007)

Dodo Factory said:


> Pj and I will write who Lucy is on the inside of every jar of Dodo Juice, right at the bottom, only visible when the jar is empty. LOL
> 
> Well, she did say I knew something about marketing :thumb:


:lol: :thumb: Your not joking either are you!!! :lol:

It makes me laugh that the name is a female name though and we are all saying she......reminds me of going to the pub with one of my mates and when asked what drinks we want I order and say 'I will have a pint and whatever she is having' (obviously aimed at my male mate)! Sorry totally obscure but just made me think of it then.


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## theDodo (Jan 14, 2007)

personally i think, it is up to lucy to say and do as she please. i can't take her seriously because she had nothing serious to say. i am sure that with all her 'expertise' she will go far, perhaps even turn around and show us all how a 'real detailers' product should be. what an embarrassment though, for anyone associating themselves with such a person, if it ever were to come out who lucy is. i mean, she might not think we know anything about detailing, but that certainly isn't good marketing.


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## visor (Sep 8, 2007)

i also like to know who Lucy is


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## Glossmax (May 9, 2007)

Ok it's 4 am I can't sleep I need to know who L U C Y is :doublesho :doublesho :doublesho


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

theDodo said:


> personally i think, it is up to lucy to say and do as she please. i can't take her seriously because she had nothing serious to say. i am sure that with all her 'expertise' she will go far, perhaps even turn around and show us all how a 'real detailers' product should be. what an embarrassment though, for anyone associating themselves with such a person, if it ever were to come out who lucy is. i mean, she might not think we know anything about detailing, but that certainly isn't good marketing.


if you dont know by now.......


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## kk1966 (Aug 8, 2007)

It seems to be becoming more and more obvious, but then i cant believe they would be that stupid if i'm right. Professional suicide and backward marketing


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## spitfire (Feb 10, 2007)

Krystal-Kleen said:


> It seems to be becoming *more and more obvious*, but then i cant believe they would be that stupid if i'm right. Professional suicide and backward marketing


:wall: I'm still none the wiser :wall:


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Krystal-Kleen said:


> It seems to be becoming more and more obvious, but then i cant believe they would be that stupid if i'm right. Professional suicide and backward marketing


maybe some people just dont know how the internet works and what IP addresses are and can tell you


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## Ronnie (Nov 15, 2006)

Can I get a PM as to who Lucy is I have an idea who it is and if its who I think it is, that is just professional suicide as far as credibility is concerned. Yes their nice little empire will go on but as for here and reputation within the industry is concerned Titanic//iceberg comes to mind?! am I along the right lines here?


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## spitfire (Feb 10, 2007)

It would be very easy to jump to conclusions. I'm keeping an open mind.


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

I'm keeping mine closed, lest the hamsters escape.


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## Ronnie (Nov 15, 2006)

Very wise words... Jumping to conclusions is a risky business. At the end of the day the product has proved its worth time after time. Its a pity that people will stoop to such tactics as to sabotage a business in such a manner. Regardless of what happened previously to cause this, restraint should be shown. At the end of the day, it is none of our business really and it is just dragging the forum into it. I hope the person involved will try to redeem themselves by acknowledging their actions and them manner in which they conducted themselves on a public forum was irresponsible and quite frankly childish.. basically sort it out but not here!!!


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Yep - LP's been a good product from day one IMVHO. It needs slightly different application technique by hand to HDC or CF but it's yet to let me down hence why I've sold my CF as I have no use for it any more.


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## NKS (Feb 22, 2007)

Who is Lucy???? Someone please pm me and let me know....


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## Ronnie (Nov 15, 2006)

Sort of reminds me os a song by Smokey...

I don't know why she's leavin or where she's gonna go but for 24 years I've been livin next door to LUCY!!!!!!! Lucy, Lucy who the f**k is Lucy!!!!

Hum along if u know the words!!


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## somouk (Jun 14, 2006)

Lol @ this thread.

Nice post dom and its still good to see dodo are staying true to their word and being honest with detailers.

Now, this lucy bird. Anyone got a good idea who it is instead of just hearsay? I know the mods will be able to check IP's but that doesnt always give the game away.

Mart


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

I dont know why everyone wants to know so badly, it'll be revealed at some point no doubt!


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## Ronnie (Nov 15, 2006)

Clark said:


> I dont know why everyone wants to know so badly, it'll be revealed at some point no doubt!


I sorta agree, personally I 'm a nosy feker at the best of times!!! But I do think its bang out of order what they did.. imagine if it was said about you or Polished Bliss! Hard working and Very highly thought of people and some t*** thinks they can slag you off and rubbish your work and get a following.. I have been through it in business myself and its not nice when it happens. Its ok to do it using your own name but to assume a new identity to do so is pretty low. Sorry my blood boils at this sort of thing..


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Ronnie said:


> I sorta agree, personally I 'm a nosy feker at the best of times!!! But I do think its bang out of order what they did.. imagine if it was said about you or Polished Bliss! Hard working and Very highly thought of people and some t*** thinks they can slag you off and rubbish your work and get a following.. I have been through it in business myself and its not nice when it happens. Its ok to do it using your own name but to assume a new identity to do so is pretty low. Sorry my blood boils at this sort of thing..


As long as you stay professional and treat people the way they deserve then everyone will know the true story at the end of the day, not some fanny who fears he's no longer the bee's knees or feels the need to cause trouble for whatever reason!


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## megaboost (Feb 4, 2007)

Clark said:


> I dont know why everyone wants to know so badly, it'll be revealed at some point no doubt!


I'm keen to know because I don't like to do business with the sort of people who employ tactics like that, *if* it's a trader on here I want to put them on my list of people to avoid.

And I like a bit of gossip


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## visor (Sep 8, 2007)

megaboost said:


> I'm keen to know because I don't like to do business with the sort of people who employ tactics like that, *if* it's a trader on here I want to put them on my list of people to avoid.
> 
> And I like a bit of gossip


yeah same here


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## Deanoecosse (Mar 15, 2007)

Clark said:


> As long as you stay professional and treat people the way they deserve then everyone will know the true story at the end of the day, not some fanny who fears *he's *no longer the bee's knees or feels the need to cause trouble for whatever reason!


Well that's Clark half revealed who he thinks it is. Calling Lucy "he"
I feel the net is closing in and the sly culprit may be unmasked before the fat guy in red & white suit is landing on our roofs.


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

maybe i said "he" on purpose, and maybe i dont even have a clue who it is!


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## s1mmo440 (Feb 19, 2007)

Im guessing its not a trader......maybe a detailer!????? :thumb:


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

Guys it is not a trader, for that you have my word. If whizzer wishes to disclose the persons identity then am sure he will. Otherwise this thread is only fuelling rumours


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Chaps just to clarify it certainly is not one of the traders on DW ....


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