# Snow Foam - Urban Legend or Gift from the Gods?



## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

There have been many debates over the effectiveness of Snow Foam (SF), some saying it is a gimmick, some saying it is an essential part of the wash process, but I don't think we've ever had a conclusive test to prove one or the other. We've had plenty of SF "A" vs. SF "B", but I can't recall a SF vs. no SF test, although it is very simple to do.

For those that don't know, let me introduce my test subject, my Nighthawk Black Accord Type R, who I try to keep looking like this -










I mentioned this test what must have been six months ago, but my car is rarely dirty enough to carry out any effective test. Until yesterday that is. A visit to a customer out in the sticks, followed by a back route home of single track roads and Vtec smiles, may I introduce the CERV (Coversure Emergency Response Vehicle) -
































































Now the test is simple in execution and should hopefully prove or disprove the effectiveness of Snow Foam as a "pre wash". This isn't about striving for the touchless wash (although that would be nice), but more of a case of shifting as much as dirt and grime from a car before your sponge/washmit hits the paintwork, thus reducing the chances of marring.

The method:

The car has a pretty even layer of dirt so the idea behind the test is to SF half the car (nearside/offside). The car will then be rinsed with open hose and pressure washer jet (front/back), so from this we can see the effectiveness of -

SF vs. no SF rinsed with a hose
SF vs. no SF rinsed with a pressure washer

First off was to SF half the car. I've not touched the wheels or anything else, this is straight in with the SF. I have chosen to not mention the product used as the test is about SF, not about an individual product. I'm sure the results may vary slightly depending on the SF used, but we can still draw conclusions on the effectiveness of SF vs. no SF regardless of the manufacturer.





































After nearly 10 minutes dwell. The first thing I noticed is that the dirt meant that the SF took much longer to clear than when I normally clean the car when it is less dirty. Also, being colder weather, it tends to stay thicker on the car anyway.










The SF was "dirty" as it dripped from the car, evidencing that some dirt was being removed from the car.










Here are a couple of shots of the bonnet. You can clearly see that as the SF is clearing, it is dragging away a fair bit of the dirt with it, leaving a much cleaner surface in its trail -



















This is a picture of the top of the wing near bonnet where the SF has dragged down.










Compare it to the untouched side and again you can see that even on its own it is pulling dirt away from the surface as it moves down the car.










After another 5 minutes or so, this was the state of affairs, with the SF having dwelled for around 15 mins -




























Time to let the test begin.

I rinsed the rear half the car with the pressure washer (PW) on its lowest pressure setting, which is more or less the equivalent of an open hose. There is no real force behind the jet and I rinsed both the SF side and the non SF side. This would show the effectiveness of SF being applied and then just washed off, rather than dirt being rinsed off by the pressure of the water.

This to me is the most important comparison, as it will prove just how effective of ineffective the SF is on its own,

First the SF side rinsed -










Considering this was just the effect of the SF, I must admit I was rather surprised and impressed with the results. Most of the mud and dirt had been removed and just a film was left -



















The results were more obvious on the boot, compare the SF'd right hand side against the non SF left hand side, both were rinsed with low pressure water -



















Now compare this to the side that was just rinsed down with a low pressure wash and no SF -




























Back to other side, as it dried off, it was evident that SF alone would still leave quite a heavy film in the really dirty bits, but believe it or not, the mess in this picture is actually mainly reflection!










My conclusions from the first part of the test is that SF is very capable of shifting dirt & grime in readiness for a touch wash with a sponge or mitt.

Now to compare the effectiveness of SF when rinsed with a PW compared to a straight forward power rinse with no SF -

First off, pictures of the SF side rinsed with the pressure washer on full pelt, held approx 2 foot away with 2 to 3 passes. This was consistent on both the SF side and the non SF side so the result were comparable -










The results were looking very good for SF side and even the wheels came up relatively clean -










The result were pretty good all round, the SF you can see in this picture (although slightly blurred) is actually reflections -










Compare this to the non SF side which was rinsed in exactly the same way -




























Even with the PW on full blast, there was still a lot of mud and grime left behind on the dirty parts compared to the SF'd side which was rinsed in the same manner.










Back to the SF'd side now, after it had been allowed to dry for a short while. There is marked improvement, although a layer of traffic film still exists.










This is the SF'd part that was only rinsed down with a low pressure jet -










The difference was quite evident on the rear, again both just rinsed with a low pressure jet, but the right hand side SF'd










As the car continued to dry the difference became much more evident, this being the rear NS that was just rinsed with a low pressure jet -










And the front NS that was just hit with the PW on full pressure with no SF










Again, as it dried, the o/s front bumper with just a PW rinse










Compared to the NS front bumper with SF followed by a PW rinse










The results were very conclusive, the SF had removed a considerable amount of dirt, by far most evident in the test of SF/low pressure rinse vs. no SF/low pressure rinse, proving its effectiveness.

Again in the SF/high pressure rinse vs. no SF/high pressure rinse, the SF came out trumps by a long shot, proving conclusively that it is not just the PW that removes the dirt, as has been argued in the past.

I decided then to give the car a quick SF all over and a PW rinse down. I was running out of time and I'm off to Fairford (back roads covered in lovely dirt from the gravel pits!) on Friday which means the car is going to get dirty again, so I decided against a full on wash down with the shampoo and sponge today.



















I only let it dwell a few minutes as time was pressing on and I had to pick the kids up soon, so then rinsed down with the pressure washer. I rinsed the car down with Demon Shine through a watering can to try and reduce the water spots (we have horrendously hard water here and I wasn't prepared to dry the car with it not having a proper shampoo) -





































Now this itself produced some further interesting results. Now bear in mind the offside has now had two SF applications, there was a noticeable difference in the traffic film left on the car -










The side with two SF applications -



















The side with the water rinse and one SF application -




























Now this brings about something else. Admittedly the NS only had a dwelling time of around 5 minutes, compared to the original 15 minutes of the offside. This could be the reason that there is such a difference between the two sides. On the other hand, it could be that a second application of SF has made a further substantial difference. I suspect though, it is a mixture of the two.

In conclusion, without doubt the SF I tested today made a substantial difference to the cleaning of my car and was a very effective pre wash. With two applications, rinsed by a pressure washer, I would almost say I would be happy to wipe it over with a QD and a soft MF to dry. But as I said at the start, this isn't about SF being a touchless solution, but a test to see if SF is an effective pre-wash solution to remove dirt and grime ready for your usual shampoo wash. In my opinion, without doubt, Snow Foam carried that task most effectively.

So urban legend, fancy gimmick, or an effective pre-wash?

In my opinion, not only does it look cool and impress your neighbours, but it is without doubt a very effective pre wash and an important part of your wash process that helps reduce marring at the shampoo stage (especially if you have honey textured paint like I do!).


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

I agree , i foam and jetwash and ro water after and dont touch at all , comes up clean enough for me without physcially touching the vehicle something i dont want to do with my Heavenly black van.


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

Good post Lloyd :thumb:

A lot of people differ on this but indeed I always use it. Safer way of removing dirt from a car rather than blasting straight with P/W. Protects the car better in my eyes as don't fancy dirt particles being blown across a cars paint.


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## Phil1971 (Sep 3, 2007)

Interesting experiment and comforting that SF is actually doing what we'd all hoped !! 

Tasty motor by the way :thumb:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

nice test...

tbh, even if SN was proven 99.9% not to do anything, I think I would still use it...I just like using it! 

:thumb:


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

Great test Lloyd.. 

I always argued the side of SF.. it is a vital part imo..

you will now get the people saying "but you didn't rinse the no sf side effectively enough" ie.. wasting hundreds of litres of water rinsing it off.. putting more strain and hours of use on your pressure washer aswell.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

The_Bouncer said:


> Good post Lloyd :thumb:
> 
> A lot of people differ on this but indeed I always use it. Safer way of removing dirt from a car rather than blasting straight with P/W. Protects the car better in my eyes as don't fancy dirt particles being blown across a cars paint.


Aye, there have been a few debates in the past regarding the effectiveness of SF, most arguing that that a rinse down with a pressure washer will give exactly the same effect and it is just a gimmick.

Hopefully this post will put aside the doubts and show that it is much more effective that just a pw alone and a very valuable par of the wash process.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

CraigQQ said:


> Great test Lloyd..
> 
> I always argued the side of SF.. it is a vital part imo..
> 
> you will now get the people saying "but you didn't rinse the no sf side effectively enough" ie.. wasting hundreds of litres of water rinsing it off.. putting more strain and hours of use on your pressure washer aswell.


Indeed, but this was the point, i rinsed both side exactly the same, thus proving that SF is more effective than rinsing alone. :thumb:

I was actually surprised at the results. As per Cuey, even if it turned out it was 99.99% gimmick, i would have still liked it. But i'm please to find that it is actually much much more than a gimmick.


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## [email protected] (Dec 21, 2005)

Good post Lloyd!

Applying Snow Foam is always going to make a difference in the pre wash imo. Soaking a great percentage of dirt into the foam and then rinsing away is always going to be a safer wash rather than taking a sponge or mitt to the paint surface. Maybe not a 100% touchless wash (depending on what snow foam you use) but a massive difference. 

Nice car by the way!

Regards Mark:thumb:


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Thanks for taking the time to do the test, I had always thought SF did a fair bit on its own :thumb:

That's a lovely motor btw :argie:


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## adlem (Jul 6, 2008)

Thanks for a great post :thumb:


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## Sirmally2 (Feb 28, 2011)

Awesome test Lloyd. I generally use SF when my car is absolutly pitted like yours was. If its only a light layer of dirt then i dont bother so much, but its good to know its not just me who thinks that it does actually work!

As mentioned tho, even if it didnt work, id still use it because its fun, looks awesome and people walking past and neighbours are even impressed by it!


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## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

i`ve seen a few say it does nothing at all but i for one still use it regardless what the non believers say , this thread is great and confirms it does what it`s intended to do , even in the summer i find it great as the dead bugs ect will just slide off the front end after a soaking with snowfoam , 
ok it won`t remove everything but it certainly makes washing the car easier without removing the lsp .
in winter all i`ll use is snowfoam , rinse off and dry using open end hose , safest touchless wash going for the winter :thumb: 

thanks for taking time out and posting the thread and on that bombshell i`m off to use the snowfoam


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## great gonzo (Nov 4, 2010)

Go on name which snow foam was used!!


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

great gonzo said:


> Go on name which snow foam was used!!


I kind of made the decision not to name it, as i didn't want the post to be about how great a specific product is or isn't, but more about as to whether snow foam is just a gimmick that gives no different results to just using a pressure washer water jet, or whether it does effectively loosen dirt and clean paintwork making it an effective pre-wash.

To be honest, having a black car and living in an area of silly hard water would have hindered the results slightly as, even after a good scrub down, the car still gets water marks when drying unless i get in quick with a drying towel. So even a clean bit of paint can look dirty due to water marks.

The test would be better on a dirty white car in an area of soft water, so if someone wants to volunteer to carry out the same test with an undisclosed SF of their choice, this would further evidence that SF _does_ work.


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## Brummie_Nige (Sep 5, 2011)

Great post, Lloyd. In my mind there was no doubt that SF is an effective pre-wash. It's good to see you test adds weight to this.

After a 300 mile damp motorway journey, diesel spilt down the side, muddy Cornish driveways and seaguls using it as target practice I SFed the car yesterday. After 2 applications I hardly needed to touch it with shampoo and mitt to get it clean - just how I like it! :thumb:


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

I personally don't like using snow foam and much prefer using a pre-spray left to dwell then rinse. I find snow foam a rather messy affair .... although sometimes I do it just for the fun of it


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

If i had more time/a bigger car, i guess i could have dedicate a third of the car to a pre-wash spray/tfr too 

That's a test for another day...


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## Jakub555 (Aug 17, 2011)

Nice test Lloyd

:thumb:

So in your opinion
very dirty car ( dry dirt etc )
before do anything 
wet it -no wet it ?
degreaser on car or not ?
or just straight on snow foam and then 2bm ?

or maybe apply degreaser and then on top on degreaser snow foam , bit stronger version but 2 in 1 leave it to dwell and then rinsed off ?

what do you think Lloyd ?

Cheers
Kind Regards
J555


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

The snow foam was very effective when applied to a dry car. All that was left was a traffic film. With that i mind, personally i would apply in this order -

Snow Foam
Rinse
Wax safe TFR 
Rinse
Wash


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## Jakub555 (Aug 17, 2011)

So that mean better process with better result is
like above ?

But we still looking before 2bm rinsed twice ?

what about , never tried 

degreaser + snow foam on top leave it to dwell + rinsed off
and then 2bm 

Cheers

very nice car by the way

:thumb:


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## Mad Ad (Feb 7, 2011)

That was a good test liked it:thumb::thumb:


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## cfherd (Jan 14, 2010)

Thanks for that, a really detailed test on what is for a some a touchy subject. I think we could go further and include factors such as brand, dillution rates, water temp etc but I think the effect is clear from this (relativly) simple test.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

My dilution rates were quite specific using the "that'll do..." method, said in Wiltshire farmer accent


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## Dingo2002 (Apr 4, 2007)

Cant dispute the evidence :thumb:

Although I don't use a dedicated SF I do spray a pre-wash mix over the car prior to rinsing which does remove the vast majority of crud and helps dissolve sap and petroleum spots on the car. Obviously when not rewaxing this step isn't used so maybe a gentler SF should be in my inventory.


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

Shiny said:


> The snow foam was very effective when applied to a dry car. All that was left was a traffic film. With that i mind, personally i would apply in this order -
> 
> Snow Foam
> Rinse
> ...


This is my issue (not so much an issue) but every weekend through the winter doing the above is what i don't really want to be doing and getting all the kit out. I prefer just a pre wash spray and then wash off sometimes cleaning the car can become annoying unfortunately.


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## jcrease (May 4, 2011)

alan hanson said:


> This is my issue (not so much an issue) but every weekend through the winter doing the above is what i don't really want to be doing and getting all the kit out. I prefer just a pre wash spray and then wash off sometimes cleaning the car can become annoying unfortunately.


What do you use as a pre wash spray?
What brands are the wax safe TFR?
Thanks.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

snow foams are based around TFR's anyway, most won't remove wax if the ratio isn't ridiculously strong. although they can degrade wax over time with regular use, its unlikely it'll remove it all in one go...


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## gdavison (May 14, 2009)

great report and interesting results .. thanks for taking the time !


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

Good test Lloyd, confirms what i have always belived, that it DOES make a difference and quite a big one as well.
Using Magifoam in the winter last year, i could get the car spotless with hardly any RTF left and not even a need to touch the car with mitts. Now that is great when the weather is very cold but dont try it when it's freezing, you litterally end up with snow everywhere as the PW blasts the frozen snowfoam away....lesson learnt

Kev


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## luke w (Dec 11, 2012)

Great post, cheers!


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## danwel (Feb 18, 2007)

Nice write up


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## V3nom (Oct 31, 2012)

Epic, epic thread mate! I was always curious about the effectiveness of SF but you can't really argue with these results! Cheers


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## Z4-35i (Jun 12, 2012)

Thanks for the write up, great comparison.


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## Pedro.Malheiro (Mar 18, 2011)

great post. 

and thank you for sharing you test.


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## james vti-s (Aug 9, 2011)

great post and can i say you car is f***ing beautiful respect for taking such good care of it


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Thanks for the kind words. Hard to believe it is over a year ago since i did the test. The car is an on going love affair, not much has changed on the outside since then, although I've made the engine bay look sweeter over the last year.


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## mr.t (Oct 1, 2010)

Really good post there lloyd, thanks for taking the time.

Hmmmm i was never too sure if snow foam worked but that post has changed my mind .

Nice car that is.


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## WannaBd (Dec 18, 2010)

What a great test! ive not 'foamed' yet, been using tfr, but think I'll get a foam lance and give it a try after that test of yours. Accord looks good, lovely exhausts. :thumb:


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## Nally (May 30, 2012)

Open and shut case : )


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## Clean-my-sxi (Feb 5, 2008)

IMO snow foam does have a place , if its a cool day or you can get out the sun and allow the foam to dwell for at least 10mins then it does do a good job, i havent personally seen much evidence of a foam cleaning well when only left for a few minutes.

But given a long dwell time the evidence is as clear as day

Im would like to try out a pre rinse instead of my foam now to see the difference


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## TopSport+ (Jul 22, 2012)

very good post, everything is clear


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Shiny said:


> In my opinion, not only does it look cool and impress your neighbours...


Sorry, but I can't agree with either claim. IMO without catching the run-off
and properly disposing of it, snow foam should be outlawed. Every time I see 
the run-off on the ground, far from being impressed, a little bit of me dies inside.

I clearly remember the foam pollution that killed rivers for several weeks at a 
time, back in the 1970's and 80's. The smell and sight of dying and dead fish
have a profound effect. Oxygen deprivation is extremely painful in mammals; 
who's to say that it isn't also for fish? Their thrashing behaviour in such 
circumstances tends toward indicating severe pain too!

Anyone who thinks that the chemicals in snow foam stop foaming once they 
hit the ground is frankly deluding themselves. You can't abuse water like that 
as a business, so why should there be any private entitlement either? When 
will people learn from the lessons of those bad old days? We pay out loads to
have watercourses protected by the environment people, then do this; it just
doesn't make sense.

So, not cool and not impressive. Limited reward for a lot of hard work when 
simpler, quicker, easier and more effective solutions exist.

Regards,
Steve


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

It was a satirical comment. I also think my car looks cool and impresses the neighbours, but I've no intention of buying a Prius.


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## Phil434 (Nov 29, 2012)

This post just helped to make my mine up as I didn't really think it was worth the expense for snow foam. After reading this I can really appreciate the difference it makes:detailer: 
Many thanks!


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## MK1Campaign (Mar 27, 2007)

Good test and nice car bud. Can't remember the last time I saw one.


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Shiny said:


> It was a satirical comment. I also think my car looks cool and impresses the neighbours, but I've no intention of buying a Prius.


Oh, don't get me wrong, the car itself is uberkool and should impress almost
every viewer, just not when it's covered in foam... and it's not being collected

Regards,
Steve


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## shaqs77 (Jun 10, 2008)

Nice write up


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## invisiblekid (Jul 30, 2013)

Lowiepete said:


> Sorry, but I can't agree with either claim. IMO without catching the run-off
> and properly disposing of it, snow foam should be outlawed. Every time I see
> the run-off on the ground, far from being impressed, a little bit of me dies inside.
> 
> ...


Found this thread upon asking if I should wet the car before snow foaming it.

This is my 1st post and just done my 1st snow foam: you are an experienced member and I am not the font of all knowledge and so accordingly will tread carefully with my reply.

Firstly, to the OP snow foam works great. Being this is my first car that deserves some big TLC I have just bought a load of kit inc; nilfisk E120, a lance from Clean Your Car and Megs Hyper Wash (maybe a bit ott as a 1st attempt). My car was very dusty but with a good mix and thick foam I was amazed by the results. BTW it was on a dry car. Did not have time to do a proper wash, but even a touchless wash it's still beads the rain...just. So for me it's definitely something I will continue doing.

Now onto lowiepete.

While I understand your concern and at this stage have not much clue on the contents of every snow foam product, I feel you hatred of (uncollected) snow foam a tad ott.

While I'm sure the concentration of the foaming agent is ramped up, surely it's the air injected into it that causes the massive foaming. Using any specific snow foam product is no different to using a shampoo WITHOUT the lance? Stick it in a bucket in the right ratio and you have the same foam surely?

The left over foam is not going to foam anymore it come into contact with any more foam?

Of course you can get many bio degradable car cleaning products, wether you believe them is another matter. However given the number of people that use snow foam, I'd be far more concerned about all the other products Joe Bloggs uses on their car and all the hand washes springing up and those guys in the car parks using god knows what and leaving the residue all over the car park and no doubt just tipping whatever water they have left down the nearest drain.

Again I mean no disrespect, but there is a ton of other car cleaning products that I sure can do worse.

Also snow foaming is not in the least bit hard work and i doubt anything else is quicker or easier. more effective? I'm sure there is, but in no way would that be easier than a bit of pouring, a quick connection, spray, swap nozzle and spray again......in my limited knowledge.


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## ardenvxr (May 22, 2013)

Love the foam,surely if foam is bad for the environment,then surely any sprayable pre wash will be bad for the environment? Or do certain people just hate snow foam because they are fanboys of a certain product....?


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

invisiblekid said:


> stuff


 If I remember correctly there was a thread by a guy called John (Epoch) who followed where his foam went and how easy it got into the water stream.

I don't know whether or not it would still foam in the water stream but the chemicals will be.


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## Clancy (Jul 21, 2013)

ardenvxr said:


> Love the foam,surely if foam is bad for the environment,then surely any sprayable pre wash will be bad for the environment? Or do certain people just hate snow foam because they are fanboys of a certain product....?


Probably a fan boy

Moaning about it damaging the environment is just stupid, pretty much everything does to some extent.

For Christ sake the cars we drive deposit heavy metals onto the road, which get rinsed off into the watercourses and by far more dangerous for the environment

Just wash your car


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## Makalu (May 7, 2013)

Photo's all disappeared


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Bear with me, finding out what is happening, I think my outgoing email has been hacked


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