# BMW E92 M3 Ultimate Wetsand By KDS



## Kelly @ KDS

Hi to All this is my first post in the studio section and the start of many many more.

Been around detailing in some form and another for 18 years and only really got into photos and videos some 2 years ago.

Some people will know me very well and never heard of me so,

Firstly i will say Hi to the people and companies i know and spoke too in the past . :wave:

Dom - Dodo Juice, 
Clark - Polished Bliss,
Matt - OYM's, 
PJS, 
Brian - Drive and shine, 
Rob - Gleammachine, 
Tim - Clean Your Car,

Sorry to anyone i have missed out .

Due to being very busy and working later and later through the night as always, i will post this write up for speed by copying and pasting from a Pistonheads write up many months ago of the E92 M3 wet sand carried out for a pistonhead member.

So here goes, sorry for the lack of description, for the latest details i have starting logging and taking photos in more depth in readiness to post on DW for the future :thumb:

As dropped of by the owner



















Dye transfer from blue Jeans on the leather seat's










Gloss readings before any wash process

roof










rear bumper










boot lid










bonnet










orange peel before wet sanding










Rear quarter panel










Rear quarter panel










bonnet










some products used to wash car ready for detailing process










First wash down with snow foam




























This is after leaving the snowfoam to dwell for 5 minutes










after 7 minutes










complete car was rinsed, then all edges washed with all purpose cleaner and degreaser around grills and badges etc .

Then clean wheels with acid free alloy wheel cleaner .

Then another wash with snowfoam

one final rinse of complete car , then move car indoors and blow dry car with compressed air and drying towels .

The clay section next



















Was surprised too find not much debris compared to must cars i detail










Car was drove back outside to have a very close look at the interior mainly the leather , the leather dye transfer cleaned off ok using standard leather cleaning products .










Here you can see the blue dye on the cleaning cloth










Now getting into the reason you pay to have a professional detail , as well as the equipment needed .

First thing is too inspect the paint for flaws and but more important is to measure the paint depth to build up a map of the car's varing paint depth giving the detailer the information needed to be confident the car can have the wet sand and machine polish process.

The measurments where taken all over the cars panels to gain an average figure .





































The readings are taken by using 2 different methods of paint depth gauges , one measures on Ferrous and non Ferrous metals only and the total paint depth only










If you only have this gauge then the best way to work out the amount of top coat (laquer) there is , is to measure an area under the bonnet with no top coat take a reading then subtract that from the reading on the outside of the car this would give you a rough guide to the amount of top coat , or you can measure in the door shuts too where there would be one coat of laquer again to gain an idea of how much top coat is on the car !

This gauge measures using ultrasound which can be used on all surfaces as well as measuring in layers too ,










Because the paint depth will vary over a very small area measured the best method of repeated readings is to use this method of marking the panels ,

A mim tripod holding a laser pointer to mark the bonnet



















mark where the ultrasound gel has been used to take a reading










and the same for the boot



















The wing was measured with a large tripod using this method










Here is the wing reading just the top coat

108 microns of laquer (which is very thick )










here is measuring 2 layers base colour coat and top coat










Now to the wet sanding stage

some of the equipment and materials used for wet sanding










I found the paint too be very hard , i would normally wet sand by hand starting with 1500 grit wet and dry moving through finer grades , but this was so hard that started with 1200 grit , here is a video showing how hard the paint is after using 1200 grit by hand















here is using a machine for wet sanding










again with 1200 grit and did not touch the paint really






After days of work in the first rough sand the car ends up looking like this , and this is when the customer has kittens if they see their car ,




























The car was sanded in 1200, 1500 , 2000 , 4000 grit .

before the machine polishing stage started i took more reading round the entire car to show how much material has been remove to lose the orange peel ,

bonnet before reading again










bonnet after wet sanding readings










bonnet after machine polish final stage










100 microns in depth is the same as an expensive sheet of A4 paper , so a removal of 10 microns of top coat was needed on that measurment to get perfect flat paint , which really shows the small amount of materail that was removed .

here shows the average amount of material taken from each panel to get no orange peel , you will notice that the rear bumper had a much lower reading than the rest of the car so was machined polished only not wet sanded , you will also notice that say wing to wing , door to door the after paint depths are closer than before the wet sanding .










now to the best pictures the results

gloss readings after

roof










rear bumper










boot lid










bonnet










after shots

















































































































































and my favorite shots




























Reflection shot of the workshop (or lack of reflection)










After reflection shot of workshop










Before reflection shot of bonnet showing skylight










after shot of bonnet










This is what paint can look like after 80 hours work



















Here are 2 videos too











I hope you enjoyed my first studio thread and maybe picked up and learnt something along the way :thumb:

KDS Detailing , Kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


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## Adam D

Great set of photos.

The orange peel out of the factory is shocking for a car of that price.

Love the photo AFTERNOORANGEPEEL6.jpg, it's like a mirage!

I must admit that I do still prefer the looks of the E46 M3 though...


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## MK1Campaign

Absolutely incredible and thats coming from someone who flats down cars as part of my job. 
What snowfoam are you using?


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## Guest

That was amazing, and I thoroughly enjoyed reading that.

Great work there, especially as I too have orange peel on my 135i, but I'm no way as skilled or as brave as yourself to do any wetsanding!

The after shots really show how much effort you put in, they really do look good :thumb:

Nice job.


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## chunkytfg

Simply stunning!!!


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## Guest

WOW Top notch


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## StuaR32t

holly crap... thats awesome:thumb:


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## Offyourmarks

great write up Kelly - true craftsman and a pleasure to read.

Have you put your bloody prices up yet?


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## Auto Detox

Welcome Kelly, I read this thread a while back on P/H well worth another read 

Baz


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## chillly

jaw dropping jaw dropping. wow mate thats above and beyond :thumb::thumb:


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## mk2jon

Looking forward to more threads from you after that one then.


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## Cullers

Well have to say that work is probably best I've ever seen! Sheesh!


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## leolebkuchen

Superb!


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## badly_dubbed

thats pretty epic


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## Paintguy

80 hours! Now that's some serious sanding!

I'll not be vulgar enough to ask your rates, but do you charge this sort of thing by the hour, or as a fixed price job?

And would you mind us knowing what pad & polish combo's you use? I have to deal with that kind of BMW paint quite a bit and usually end up resorting to 3M Fast Cut Plus on a wool pad if I've had to sand it.

Cheers


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## spindem

Separates the men from the boys!


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## Alfa GTV

Amazing work :thumb: great photos too


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## Ronnie

very very nice its write ups like this that make me want to up my game as regards to my approach to my detailing... amazing results and fastidious attention to detail. One question I see you dont sand to the end of the panels was that due to drop off in paint depth or as I assume no need to go to the outer extreme of the panel where mistakes can happen?


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## -Kev-

:doublesho superb work and first studio thread


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## -Kev-

MK1Campaign said:


> Absolutely incredible and thats coming from someone who flats down cars as part of my job.
> What snowfoam are you using?


looks like it says super snow foam on the label to me


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## spacer567

probably the best ive seen on here your work is outstanding love the ramp and the garage set up


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## karburn

Staggering turn-around. WHAT a difference in the finished product. Well done!!!


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## VIPER

Simply amazing work there, Kelly :doublesho :thumb:

Thanks for bringing this over here, and I'm sure we'll all be looking forward to more of these write ups in the future, mate :thumb:


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## TCD

Amazing work mate, really amazing.


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## ads2k

Stunning job and welcome along :thumb:


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## MidlandsCarCare

You've just taken things to another level.

I'm amazed. Sensational work, thanks very much for sharing.

Which LSP did you use, out of interest?


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## KKM

Its not often I am lost for words!!!

:thumb:


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## Ducky

DAMN! Your work really is outstanding in the detail and also in your write-ups, I look forward to reading many more in the future. :thumb:


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## WyattEarp

OMG:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho I am speachless. That is an amazing job there.:thumb: WOW Keep them coming. I will be on the lookout for all your threads.:thumb:


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## adam87

Stunning job


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## Prism Detailing

Simply stunning......


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## Clark @ PB

Offyourmarks said:


> great write up Kelly - true craftsman and a pleasure to read.
> 
> Have you put your bloody prices up yet?


So it wasnt just me telling him that then?? :lol:

Really enjoyable read that mate, I cant wait for the day we get a customer wanting the same thing done on their car :thumb:


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## -ROM-

Feck me i've just looked at the price list!!!!

£500 for a full wet sand detail?????????

Selling yourself short me thinks!


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## Ti22

Read this on PH a while ago - top notch as always Kelly.

James


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## Yoghurtman

Really enjoyable read (and watch, for the vids), fantastic results and look forward to seeing more of your work.... :thumb:


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## Leemack

>


Where does the car start and the reflection finish?

Stunning work mate :thumb:


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## Jorge

WHAT A WORK!!!

Stuning finish!!!!! :doublesho


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## Clark @ PB

rmorgan84 said:


> Feck me i've just looked at the price list!!!!
> 
> £500 for a full wet sand detail?????????
> 
> Selling yourself short me thinks!


I said the very same thing to Kelly around this time last year - faaaaaar too cheap for the work he produces :thumb:


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## sayloday

Simply stunning work mate:argie:


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## fethead

My hat is off and I bow to you, your mastery is evident in the process and the finish.
Nice:thumb:


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## geert dr

That is pure craftmanship !!
This level of detailing and wetsanding is pure art !
RESPECT !!!!! :thumb:


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## Dougster

Oh boy, just when I thought I was getting there.................

Fantastic work Kelly.


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## ajc347

Wow. :doublesho

What more can I say.


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## DE 1981

Glad to see you posting here kelly you may not remember but i spoke to you a good while back about your wet sanding.


Great stuff Kelly been looking forward to this write-up since you mentioned it to me waaay back, been working hard with both Mirka's myself in readiness for a full wet sand on my own car-BMW orange peel is horrible stuff.

More please

Gav


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## david_h

That is seriously the next level of detailing. Stunning attention to detail.

so many new cars these days are ruined by orange peel paintwork, nice to see one that is as it should be.


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## Gleammachine

Welcome to the Studio Kelly.:wave:

Nice work mate.:thumb:


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## Auto Finesse

Great work, welcome to the studio.


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## Envy Car Care

Hey Kelly, bout time you got on here
Excellent work, most excellent.


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## Simonhi

Oh my !!! I Remember seeing this a few months back on PH and it's made me look more that once at the orange peel on my 335 ... Amazing work, what a labour of love.


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## final-spin

in my opinion that is the most accurate detail job and finish you are ever likely to see..

one word: incredible


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## NL-J

Holy smokes:doublesho That's looking stunning:doublesho :thumb:


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## spitfire

First of all I like to say that's a brilliant finish you achieved.:thumb: What I'd be interested to know is how much paint would you be happy removing before even you get a bit concerned. From my inexperienced point of view 10 um is still a lot of paint to remove in one process. It wouldn't leave much room for manouver in future.

I'd also like to hear more in the future about wet sanding by hand and how to do it properly.

Look forward to seeing more from you:thumb:


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## raviedavie

Yet another stunning detail Kelly , i for one have seen many details you have done and you never cease to amaze me with the finished article. I take great pride in detailing my car and the quality of work , care , and detail that you put in is a pleasure to watch ! 

And yes i know i havent booked my M3 in yet :tumbleweed:

John


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## jeroens

Absolutely Amazing :doublesho

Thanks for taking the effort for this brilliant write-up, much appreciated :thumb:


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## Tiauguinho

Thats the work I like to see posted on the Studio, professionals that take time and care to make a great finish like that. 

Very good job


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## Summit Detailing

Top stuff fella

I've seen a couple of cars you've prepped in the metal & they've all looked fabulous:thumb:


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## andye

Wow, simply amazing :thumb:


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## Perfection Detailing

Read this a while back on piston heads very nice work Kelly and welcome to DW:thumb:


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## Faythur

:doublesho :doublesho :doublesho

Amazing! :thumb:


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## Duff

Excellent results and write up!

Wondered why you didn't post on here before - just don't bring mad Mike with you :lol:


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## nickka

Love it :argie:


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## ahaydock

Top work and great write up - look forward to more :thumb:


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## Ultimate Shine

Great work mate this is what it is all about. This is what i am in to a wetsanding job's and it just goes to show that the improvement in gloss is massive, well done!


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## Dave KG

Very nice indeed and glad to see proper care being taken with the paint depth readings through out the wet sanding stage - absolutely essential when you consider the paint depths being removed (I'm inferring 15um from your graphs). How would you say this process has affected the longevity of the clearcoat? Afters show a mirror like shine :thumb:


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## -ROM-

Dave KG said:


> Very nice indeed and glad to see proper care being taken with the paint depth readings through out the wet sanding stage - absolutely essential when you consider the paint depths being removed (I'm inferring 15um from your graphs). *How would you say this process has affected the longevity of the clearcoat?* Afters show a mirror like shine :thumb:


I guess another thing to also consider is how long people keep their cars. If you change it every three to four, then years even if you do significantly reduce the longevity, if you don't keep the car long enough to see those effects then having it look good can be more of a priority.


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## Dave KG

rmorgan84 said:


> I guess another thing to also consider is how long people keep their cars. If you change it every three to four years even if you do significantly reduce the longevity if you don't keep the car long enough to see those effects then hving it look good can be more of a priority.


To you yes, but the future owner?

Looking at the graphs here, I see what I would consider to be a safe level of removal though this would naturally vary depending on the car. I am very interested to know the opinion though of a clearly very experienced detailer on wet sanding and the effects it has on the paintwork and its longevity  Wet sanding has huge potential, and KDS is harnassing this fantastically here by the looks of it, and I'd really like to know what his thoughts are on it.


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## -ROM-

Dave KG said:


> To you yes, but the future owner?
> 
> Looking at the graphs here, I see what I would consider to be a safe level of removal though this would naturally vary depending on the car. I am very interested to know the opinion though of a clearly very experienced detailer on wet sanding and the effects it has on the paintwork and its longevity


Yeah i too would be interested to know what affect it would have. I was just putting a slightly different spin on it.

I also appreciate your point about the future owners. But if the current owner doesn't care about what happens to the car after he/she gets rid of it then i guess it's almost a moral dilemma for the detailer.

On the one hand you have a customer (the one who is handing over the money and subsequently keeping your family warm and fed) saying i don't care about longevity i'll only keep the car for a few years, i want all the OP removed and balls to any future owner. Then on the other hand to knowingly cause damage (albeit delayed) to the paint goes against what they're all about!


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## Dave KG

rmorgan84 said:


> Yeah i too would be interested to know what affect it would have. I was just putting a slightly different spin on it.
> 
> I also appreciate your point about the future owners. But if the current owner doesn't care about what happens to the car after he/she gets rid of it then i guess it's almost a moral dilemma for the detailer.
> 
> On the one hand you have a customer (the one who is handing over the money and subsequently keeping your family warm and fed) saying i don't care about longevity i'll only keep the car for a few years, i want all the OP removed and balls to any future owner. Then on the other hand to knowingly cause damage (albeit delayed) to the paint goes against what they're all about!


It is a bit of a dilemma - but as this post by KDS is highlighting, handling wetsanding correctly with all the correct measurements and carefully documenting what you are doing, you can come closer to achieving the best of both worlds - this is what is impressive about this detail, not just the level of correction and finish but the care taken to ensure safety to the finish too


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## volvoRsport

Awesome work :thumb:


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## remonrace

Very good job, looks impressive.


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## neilb62

:argie::argie: Wow, simply awesome......


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## clcollins

Fantastic work and result :thumb:

I agree with what a couple of people have already written, £500 for this work is too cheap, 80 hours equates to over two weeks work (at the average 38 hour working week), add in the cost of your overheads, power / lighting etc and your premises, and it's way under priced.

How were the edges dealt with, by hand?

By edges I mean the areas next to masking tape, I noticed on the picture below you didn't run up to the tape when doing the main areas of the panels.


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## MrLOL

think i recognize your work from somewhere

Are you on Pistonheads as well ?


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## Paintguy

MrLOL said:


> think i recognize your work from somewhere
> 
> Are you on Pistonheads as well ?


Didn't bother to read the first post then?


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## Rasher

brilliant correction work


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## ALANSHR

Cool, now thats a proper job, well done.

Are the lasers just used to get a fixed point reading on the remaining thickness?


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## Ashtra

OMG what a job.Foooooking superb


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## Guest

great stuff


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## Kelly @ KDS

Hi everyone , 

I have been taken back by the amount of views and replies already :doublesho

I will promise to answer most if not all questions when i get time to do so , i am not the quickest on a keyboard and my english grammer sucks too . 

It looks like i may have a slightly quietier workload in a few weeks time , there will be alot more threads from me soon all along the same lines with some being larger and more in depth description . 

Black FORD GT 450 pictures 2 weeks solid work , Rolls Royce Phantom 200 pics 1.5 weeks work . my own car 2000 pictures (E46 LSB M3) spent 20k on parts over last 4 years and now about to fit 580 bhp supercharger Kit from the states :argie:


Kelly


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## pdv40

Your M3 is gorgeous Kelly, I look forward to that one :thumb:


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## Reds

Along with a lot of the peeps, I remember seeing this on Pistonheads and I'm as blown away now as I was then (you need to get the black Navaro up mate, that'll impress a few of the peeps on here:thumb.

Don't even think of putting your prices up until you've sorted my car

Aren't you just round the corner from Lepsons as well? (Knackered alloys)


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## Select Detailing

Welcome.


Have to say left truly blown away with the level of the detail and really does set the Bench Mark for standard.

Reading this was truly great and a real pleasure to read further in to what detailing is about. The fact you know Matt and Clark says to me your up amongst the best with what you do.

Look forward to reading more posts and learning from another great.

Kind Regards

Gareth


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## Kelly @ KDS

Reds said:


> Along with a lot of the peeps, I remember seeing this on Pistonheads and I'm as blown away now as I was then (you need to get the black Navaro up mate, that'll impress a few of the peeps on here:thumb.
> 
> Don't even think of putting your prices up until you've sorted my car
> 
> Aren't you just round the corner from Lepsons as well? (Knackered alloys)


Yep next door to lepsons , Black nissan will be coming 

Kelly


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## Dan Carter

Simply Stunning work!


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## Tiggs

Absoluty fantastic, 80hrs worth of work. I was crying after 9hrs, i have said it before but i take my hat off to you pro's at what you can achieve.



:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:


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## Dave KG

kdskeltec said:


> Hi everyone ,
> 
> I have been taken back by the amount of views and replies already :doublesho
> 
> I will promise to answer most if not all questions when i get time to do so , i am not the quickest on a keyboard and my english grammer sucks too .
> 
> It looks like i may have a slightly quietier workload in a few weeks time , there will be alot more threads from me soon all along the same lines with some being larger and more in depth description .
> 
> Black FORD GT 450 pictures 2 weeks solid work , Rolls Royce Phantom 200 pics 1.5 weeks work . my own car 2000 pictures (E46 LSB M3) spent 20k on parts over last 4 years and now about to fit 580 bhp supercharger Kit from the states :argie:
> 
> Kelly


I dont give a monkeys about your English grammar, and I bet nobody else does (and they shouldn't, its a discussion forum not an English exam ). This thread was a pleasure to see, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts and discussing some detailing with you around DW...


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## uiuiuiui

Dave KG said:


> I dont give a monkeys about your English grammar, and I bet nobody else does (and they shouldn't, its a discussion forum not an English exam ). This thread was a pleasure to see, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts and discussing some detailing with you around DW...


what he said just add some "****s" and "****s" for good measure! 

great work... and yes BMWs paint is horrible with orange peel


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## Guest

Completely and utterly amazing!


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## Kelly @ KDS

Offyourmarks said:


> great write up Kelly - true craftsman and a pleasure to read.
> 
> Have you put your bloody prices up yet?


Hi Matt :wave:

Thanks many more to come :thumb:

Prices er a little but no where near enough :wall: , but still slowly rising thou .

Did you get the ramp sorted ?????

Kelly


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## Kelly @ KDS

Clark said:


> So it wasnt just me telling him that then?? :lol:
> 
> Really enjoyable read that mate, I cant wait for the day we get a customer wanting the same thing done on their car :thumb:


Hi Clark :wave:

I have done 4 total wet sand details this year so far , with many more enquires but on taking paint depth readings there really was not the scope for full wet sand details .

I have found the bmw's of latest with the worst paint finish (orange peel) normally have enough paint to carry out such a process and are normally rock hard . 
A powder coat type paint used by bmw for a while now , which i have heard they have just dropped , if true does make sense as the very new bmw's i have seen and laid my hands on have alot less top coat build and are much softer now but still with a poor finish thou.

Kelly


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## Clark @ PB

kdskeltec said:


> Hi Clark :wave:
> 
> I have done 4 total wet sand details this year so far , with many more enquires but on taking paint depth readings there really was not the scope for full wet sand details .
> 
> I have found the bmw's of latest with the worst paint finish (orange peel) normally have enough paint to carry out such a process and are normally rock hard .
> A powder coat type paint used by bmw for a while now , which i have heard they have just dropped , if true does make sense as the very new bmw's i have seen and laid my hands on have alot less top coat build and are much softer now but still with a poor finish thou.
> 
> Kelly


Yep, I'd go along with that. BMW's of late are horrendous although the latest fords (namely the Focus RS) are definitely up there too - I may steal dads RS for 2 weeks and sand that, wonder if he'd notice.... 

Get them prices up :thumb:


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## Reds

Clark said:


> Get them prices up :thumb:


NO, don't do it


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## Jason2002

Kelly has wet sanded a couple of my cars over the past few years, his work is unbelievable. This thread just shows the extent he goes to get the car looking better than the day it left the showroom. I don’t know how this thread can only have 3 stars, how do you rate a thread? I have seen pictures of a Nissan Navara truck he has done on another thread on DW and I have never seen anything like it, the reflections are jaw dropping:doublesho. I know Kelly works all the hours under the sun but hopefully soon he will post more pictures of the Navara.


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## PinkRinse

Excellent work as always Kelly 

Ayesha (& her beloved ST)


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## simba

:argie:

wow .... loving this!


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## Porta

Awesome work, mate! What kind of compounds and polishes are you using?


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## PaulN

Nice! Some stunning work there.... :thumb:

Cheers

PaulN


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## kenny-c

Awesome work. Thanks for sharing.


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## Phil H

awesome! stunning what more can i say


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## Ultimate Valet

Auto Detox said:


> Welcome Kelly, I read this thread a while back on P/H well worth another read
> 
> Baz


Ditto! Great write up, puts some of the other good write ups on here to appear insignificant.


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## supercharged

DUDE! This is some stunning work!!!


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## rubbishboy

Excellent work, great write up too, very thorough.


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## Kelly @ KDS

Hi ,

I am just about to reply to the questions ask , but first things can someone help me ?

I need to post multiple replies at a time like other do on here and not sure how you go about it .

Kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


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## adam87

Click 'Multi-Quote' on the ones you want to answer and on the final one click 'Quote' :thumb:

Then fill in the info inbetween the quotes.


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## Kelly @ KDS

adam87 said:


> Click 'Multi-Quote' on the ones you want to answer and on the final one click 'Quote' :thumb:
> 
> Then fill in the info inbetween the quotes.


Top Man will do just that :thumb:


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## Kelly @ KDS

Adam D said:


> Great set of photos.
> 
> The orange peel out of the factory is shocking for a car of that price.
> 
> Love the photo AFTERNOORANGEPEEL6.jpg, it's like a mirage!
> 
> I must admit that I do still prefer the looks of the E46 M3 though...


That is the main reason i decided to keep my own E46 M3 and spend alot of money on it instead of moving to newer model :driver:



mk2jon said:


> Looking forward to more threads from you after that one then.


Got a few more wet sand details to post yet :thumb:



Cullers said:


> Well have to say that work is probably best I've ever seen! Sheesh!


Thanks more to come like this one



Paintguy said:


> 80 hours! Now that's some serious sanding!
> 
> I'll not be vulgar enough to ask your rates, but do you charge this sort of thing by the hour, or as a fixed price job?
> 
> And would you mind us knowing what pad & polish combo's you use? I have to deal with that kind of BMW paint quite a bit and usually end up resorting to 3M Fast Cut Plus on a wool pad if I've had to sand it.
> 
> Cheers


I never charge by the hour , each job is a fixed price but i do end up getting carried away and doing far more than i should for the quote .

The fact soft paint could be wet sanded and machined corrected 2-3 times quicker than the car in this thread , This M3 had the hardest paint i have yet incountered . The when i first tried to sand the paint with 2000 grit and did not touch it i dropped down to 1500 , then 1200 and ended up with 1000 grit first .

I have wet sandsed a new E93 M3 which i will post in the future and that sanded with 2000 grit first and machined far quicker , so pricing the job without actually wet sanding a part of the customers paint firstly may catch you out .

I machined the paint after wet sanding using Green 3M pads and fast cut plus , then yellow 3M pad and extra fine ,then finished with a quick pass of blue 3M and ultra fine .

I have used wool pad on some jobs , for this job i found the heat generated from compounding pads help the machining process .

Wiped down with slow panel wipe , wipe with Z6 then 3 coats of Z2 layered and left over night before next coat .



Ronnie said:


> very very nice its write ups like this that make me want to up my game as regards to my approach to my detailing... amazing results and fastidious attention to detail. One question I see you dont sand to the end of the panels was that due to drop off in paint depth or as I assume no need to go to the outer extreme of the panel where mistakes can happen?


I have sanded to the very edge on some jobs (my car of course is one of them) .

This example i have sanded with the first grades (1000 grit) upto 25mm from the edges then as i step up to the next grade and move closer to the edge and so on .

You end up with a blend in the sanding that is extremley hard to notice . 
This techinque is to help with time scale of such a job , and reduces problems when sanding and machining close to edges .

It also comes down to cost against overall out come , i could spent another 15 hours working right upto every edge and really would not make much of an inprovement for time spent .



spacer567 said:


> probably the best ive seen on here your work is outstanding love the ramp and the garage set up


The ramp set up really allows me to get to all those tricky places compared when working on the floor .

I also use a 4 post ramp for large vehicles such as Range Rovers , so i have 2 ramps and loads of clean floor area for detailing and not unheard of to have 4 to 5 cars on the go at one time .

kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


----------



## tdekany

*Definately one of the very best details on here - ever!*

*Excellent work!!!! :thumb::thumb::thumb:*


----------



## gioprivatemove

All i can say is WOW:argie::argie::argie::argie:

Really Great Work of Art!!! :buffer::buffer::buffer:
Very professional equipment and knowledge. :thumb::thumb::thumb:


----------



## Nick_S

Fantastic turn around!!!!!


----------



## WHIZZER

Another cracking job


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

Hi everyone ,

I will be back to answer more of the questions soon :thumb:

Here is an example of a car being sanded very close to the edge of each panel .

during wet sanding










After










passenger side

Look at the ford focus reflection and right on the very edge it is still an extremley flat reflection










up much closer , about a 2 to 3 inch square area










drivers side










up much closer , again in very close as before










And a video






thought i would post a couple of pics just to show sometimes i sand the entire paint area , i have had the heads up that another detailing forum has said somehow the E92 M3 has not been finished properly due to not sanding to the very edge and a few forum members would not be happy with the outcome :lol:

I just guess that when somethings look unreal there will always be people who dont believe , i bit like a detail company who asked my web designers if my photos are editted to look better :tumbleweed:

Kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


----------



## Ducky

I've said it before but truly awesome work there fella! :thumb:


----------



## Paintguy

kdskeltec said:


> i have had the heads up that another detailing forum has said somehow the E92 M3 has not been finished properly due to not sanding to the very edge and a few forum members would not be happy with the outcome :lol:


At a guess these will probably be the kind of people that aren't technically enlightened or experienced enough to realise just how much more risky that process is.

Better safe than sorry I say, and it looks magnificent as it is. :thumb:


----------



## Jesse74

Great turnaround on that sh1tty factory BMW finish!


----------



## -tom-

as has allready been said u have just taken this to a new level bud in so many ways it looks like a mirror bud


----------



## RefinedDetails

That is beyond attention to detail. Seriously amazing work there pal, with lots of fancy gadgets .


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

Viper said:


> Simply amazing work there, Kelly :doublesho :thumb:
> 
> Thanks for bringing this over here, and I'm sure we'll all be looking forward to more of these write ups in the future, mate :thumb:


another M3 coming in next few days , it was brand new when i inspected the car and the orange peel was worst than this M3



RussZS said:


> You've just taken things to another level.
> 
> I'm amazed. Sensational work, thanks very much for sharing.
> 
> Which LSP did you use, out of interest?


Zaino Products for durability stakes .



rmorgan84 said:


> Feck me i've just looked at the price list!!!!
> 
> £500 for a full wet sand detail?????????
> 
> Selling yourself short me thinks!


Starts at £500 , that could be part wet sand (top surfaces only not lower parts of car)



Detail Ecosse said:


> Glad to see you posting here kelly you may not remember but i spoke to you a good while back about your wet sanding.
> 
> Great stuff Kelly been looking forward to this write-up since you mentioned it to me waaay back, been working hard with both Mirka's myself in readiness for a full wet sand on my own car-BMW orange peel is horrible stuff.
> 
> More please
> 
> Gav


Yes i remember just mate :thumb: had a lot of questions back then about wet sanding



Gleammachine said:


> Welcome to the Studio Kelly.:wave:
> 
> Nice work mate.:thumb:


Hi Rob :wave:



james b said:


> Great work, welcome to the studio.


Hi James sorry forgot we have spoke in the past :thumb:



Envy Valeting said:


> Hey Kelly, bout time you got on here
> Excellent work, most excellent.


better late than never



raviedavie said:


> Yet another stunning detail Kelly , i for one have seen many details you have done and you never cease to amaze me with the finished article. I take great pride in detailing my car and the quality of work , care , and detail that you put in is a pleasure to watch !
> 
> And yes i know i havent booked my M3 in yet :tumbleweed:
> 
> John


Hi John

Have you still got the M3 ?

I have a supercharger kit in now for my car , i bet i see you soon :lol:



Duff said:


> Excellent results and write up!
> 
> Wondered why you didn't post on here before - just don't bring mad Mike with you :lol:


He was the best and really enjoyed having fun with him , it got to the stage that PistonHead members emailing me direct as soon as mad mike replied just to make sure in did not miss any of his attacks at detailers :lol:


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

Got as far as dave KG's posts ,
before i go any further if you did not realised the lower readings (plastic front wings) on the graph i produced are top (clear) coat only reading .

The total readings for wings was close on 200 microns , the areas where the laser light was used to get the most consistent reading, the amount of material from start to finish was around 10 microns . 

The readings on the graph are an average , this was done by taking say ten or so equal spaced readings depending on size and shape of panel , this was done ten times over to get around 100 reading for each panel then repeated after wet sand detail . 
the slight down fall is there is no way to know exactly where the reading were taken each time so this is why we took many and used an average . 

And i have not got 100 laser pens :lol:

Kelly


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

copied this from my aston martin thread for people this may help .

Hi guy's after the 5th request for information on the ramp in this thread i thought it would be easier to post on here for everyone to view

The ramp is a Ranger scissor lift 3 tonne LDS3000

This is not made by ranger just imported in and installed by them .

i purchased the ramp through a large motor factors who i deal with daily , the area rep for the motor factors did try his very best to steer me away from a scissor lift idea as they seem to have had so much warranty problems and user errors that its cost the motor factors too much money in the end and this was trying many different companies who make similar ramps , i was even told of court case customers wanting their money back , cars falling off them and cars getting stuck fully lifted on them .

It took many months for the rep to come back with the ramp that i now have and use , even then they really did not want to supply me with this one .

I have had a few small problems at the begining but that was due to ranger not really knowing how to install and set up the hydraulics , i think the motor factor rep visited my workshop 5 times in a month due to ramp not lifting correctly etc of course the answer was "i did try my best to warn you" .

2 different independent engineering companies came out to fix it (paid by the motor factors themselves) was better but not perfect .

As my background many years ago is building , designing and repairing complex machines i ended up setting up the hydraulics myself .

All that i do now is once a month or so is balance/blead the hydraulics to keep the 2 platforms level .

I think the motor factors have stopped suppling any scissor lift due to to many problems , and not sure if ranger still supply and sell the ramp .

You have been warned , i bought the ramp along with 2 other ramps and some other equipment , due to this the ramp cost was discounted .

The cost at begining of 08 was £3300 + vat and the extra long approach ramps are i think £800 for 4 .

I did not pay for approach ramps due to all the issues .

I must add that its the best single piece of equipment i bought and could not be without it (now its working as it should)

I think ranger dropped this from their line up because it needs to be balanced once a month and takes around 20 minutes , but because of dumb fitters who normally use such equipment kept having problems with lifting uneven .

I have had no such problems and would not be with out it !

There is no physical connection from one side to the other so relies on the hydraulics being balanced together to lift squarely !

Other pillarless ramps relies on connection bars or complicated photo electric eyes to keep them level which go wrong !

This is the ramp

http://www.effemmelifts.com/en/lifts/energy-30-35

it can be sunk into the ground or use extra long approach ramps so that low vehicles can drive straight on !

Hope this Helps

Kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


----------



## newcomer

*price of the ramp*



kdskeltec said:


> copied this from my aston martin thread for people this may help .
> 
> Hi guy's after the 5th request for information on the ramp in this thread i thought it would be easier to post on here for everyone to view
> 
> The ramp is a Ranger scissor lift 3 tonne LDS3000
> 
> This is not made by ranger just imported in and installed by them .
> 
> i purchased the ramp through a large motor factors who i deal with daily , the area rep for the motor factors did try his very best to steer me away from a scissor lift idea as they seem to have had so much warranty problems and user errors that its cost the motor factors too much money in the end and this was trying many different companies who make similar ramps , i was even told of court case customers wanting their money back , cars falling off them and cars getting stuck fully lifted on them .
> 
> It took many months for the rep to come back with the ramp that i now have and use , even then they really did not want to supply me with this one .
> 
> I have had a few small problems at the begining but that was due to ranger not really knowing how to install and set up the hydraulics , i think the motor factor rep visited my workshop 5 times in a month due to ramp not lifting correctly etc of course the answer was "i did try my best to warn you" .
> 
> 2 different independent engineering companies came out to fix it (paid by the motor factors themselves) was better but not perfect .
> 
> As my background many years ago is building , designing and repairing complex machines i ended up setting up the hydraulics myself .
> 
> All that i do now is once a month or so is balance/blead the hydraulics to keep the 2 platforms level .
> 
> I think the motor factors have stopped suppling any scissor lift due to to many problems , and not sure if ranger still supply and sell the ramp .
> 
> You have been warned , i bought the ramp along with 2 other ramps and some other equipment , due to this the ramp cost was discounted .
> 
> The cost at begining of 08 was £3300 + vat and the extra long approach ramps are i think £800 for 4 .
> 
> I did not pay for approach ramps due to all the issues .
> 
> I must add that its the best single piece of equipment i bought and could not be without it (now its working as it should)
> 
> I think ranger dropped this from their line up because it needs to be balanced once a month and takes around 20 minutes , but because of dumb fitters who normally use such equipment kept having problems with lifting uneven .
> 
> I have had no such problems and would not be with out it !
> 
> There is no physical connection from one side to the other so relies on the hydraulics being balanced together to lift squarely !
> 
> Other pillarless ramps relies on connection bars or complicated photo electric eyes to keep them level which go wrong !
> 
> This is the ramp
> 
> http://www.effemmelifts.com/en/lifts/energy-30-35
> 
> it can be sunk into the ground or use extra long approach ramps so that low vehicles can drive straight on !
> 
> Hope this Helps
> 
> Kelly
> 
> www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


if i had understand very wll, the price for a single ramp is around 700?


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

newcomer said:


> if i had understand very wll, the price for a single ramp is around 700?


Oh no way i wished it was :lol:

£3300 + vat for one ramp 
plus £800 + vat for extra approach ramps (yes i got them free because of all the trouble i had)
Total £4100 + vat for that ramp in the thread nearly 2 years ago and i spent over £15000 on 3 ramps the other 2 are different types to the one spoke about in this thread (covers every type of vehicle possible that way) and other equipment at the same time so maybe the i got a better discount aswell .

Spent another £10000 on detailing equipment in last 2 years aswell (not products and consumable items) , this may start to give you a small idea of what is invloved at this level and the guys working from vans and cars something to think about maybe before moving upwards into units .

Kelly


----------



## Mike Hunt

Was the M3 supported on the jacking points or just laid on the rocker panels? the former I hope. Fantastic work on the sanding.


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

Mike Hunt said:


> Was the M3 supported on the jacking points or just laid on the rocker panels? the former I hope. Fantastic work on the sanding.


For the people who dont know of me and my background .

20 years ago worked for a small race engine builder as my first car type job too pay for further education in engineering ,

Then worked full time for a world wide company again around the automotive industry while finishing off my education with them , then moved onto a fully qualifed engineer designing , developing and test prototype complete vehicles , engines and gearboxes . 
Got involved with engine building small batch development engines right through to complete cars , tractors and small lorry's testing them on rolling roads , climatic chambers with rolling road , and dyno test beds for many different large car compaines . 
This has stood me in excellent training for Research and development for my job

Example fitted a 5 cylinder diesel with a VGT turbo into a jaguar spent 6 months testing as you see in glossy spy shots in mags some 10 years ago .

All the time i was working for this large company my father had been running a very large indy garage employing over 25 staff ( which he has been for 35 years) , which is where i spent all my free time learning all about paint and building cars from a shell upwards .

Massive full restorations of 2 years and longer were normal for my dads bodyshop

I worked every spare hour i had there as a young lad in the bodyshop and mechanical shop .

The unit i now work from used to be part of my dads company and has been in the family since it was built , i helpped my father for a few years after leaving the large company run and work on the high end vehicles when a few years back went alone in just one of the units

I have built one off cars , track cars and modified many over the years .:thumb:

so the very long answer is Yes 

All will become more clearer as i post more and more of some of the full bare shell builds in have done in the past .

I hope to be able to share alot of my know how on here , the biggest problem for me is spare time to do so :wall:

Kelly


----------



## Ian2k

wowww


----------



## Chrisjk

Wow amazing work as stated, i've just took a good look over my dads 5 series, and the orange peel is unreal.


----------



## spursfan

Lost for words, Stunning!:thumb:


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

clcollins said:


> Fantastic work and result :thumb:
> 
> I agree with what a couple of people have already written, £500 for this work is too cheap, 80 hours equates to over two weeks work (at the average 38 hour working week), add in the cost of your overheads, power / lighting etc and your premises, and it's way under priced.
> 
> How were the edges dealt with, by hand?
> 
> By edges I mean the areas next to masking tape, I noticed on the picture below you didn't run up to the tape when doing the main areas of the panels.


That picture is not of the finished wet sand bonnet during and looks like 1500 grit or maybe 2000 grit , then would go closer to edges with 2500 3000 4000 to finish .

I guess this is the danger with posting pictures unless i take a photo write down what it is there and then for me to remember .

I took over 1000 pictures of a ford GT detail and did not even wet sand , this alone would take weeks to process and write down step by step for each picture i would go bust with in a few months with all the staffs time taken up producing fancy photos and write ups:wall:

The tape is not there as a guide to how far to wet sand to ,as wrote somewhere maybe on another of my threads its to stop the waste water running into gaps and staining the car , marking plastics etc , nearly all of my wet sanding is done by hand as i have better feel and control to what i am doing than you will ever have using a machine , this M3 i had no choice but to wet sand with DA sanders to knock down most of the orange peel before jumping over to hand method just because the paint was like granite .

Again i am sure i have wrote this before i do sand fully to the edge on some jobs and on other keep away from edge with first grades 1500 then slightly closer to edge 2000 and so on , that why you have a blend from fully flat finish to slight orange peel on very edges .

Here is a car , and my first fully wet sand to the edges 16 years ago :thumb:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=141379&page=6

it all comes down to cost/daily driver / show car / enough paint for full wet sand / what the owner wants / how well is the owner going to look after it and so on with such extreme processes as wet sanding .

Kelly


----------



## Rich @ PB

About damn time we saw you on here, although I completely know where you are coming from with regard to free time. Fantastic introductory detail, and I am looking forward to seeing more in the future. :thumb:


----------



## slrestoration

Take my hat off to you mate simply stunning example of work :thumb:


----------



## Paintguy

kdskeltec said:


> That picture is not of the finished wet sand bonnet during and looks like 1500 grit or maybe 2000 grit , then would go closer to edges with 2500 3000 4000 to finish .


Exactly the way I'd tackle it. There's little to be gained, but possibly much to lose by going right to the edge with your coarsest grit.


----------



## ben1988

you have got an amazing finish on this and im surprised by the orange peel on such a lovely motor


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

WX51 TXR said:


> About damn time we saw you on here, although I completely know where you are coming from with regard to free time. Fantastic introductory detail, and I am looking forward to seeing more in the future. :thumb:


Thanks Rich , more to come :thumb: and need to get the video recording equipment out now because of you and clark 



Paintguy said:


> Exactly the way I'd tackle it. There's little to be gained, but possibly much to lose by going right to the edge with your coarsest grit.


Well wrote short and sweet and sums it up nicely thanks :thumb:

Kelly


----------



## CleanYourCar

I don't know how I missed this one either, but thats just genius, really raising the bar I'd say as far as total paint transformation.

Great work and nice to see you posting.

Tim


----------



## No_Fear

great work


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

CleanYourCar said:


> I don't know how I missed this one either, but thats just genius, really raising the bar I'd say as far as total paint transformation.
> 
> Great work and nice to see you posting.
> 
> Tim


Thanks Tim , must be a couple of years since last spoke on the phone , anyway thanks for all the speedy delivery of products over the years :thumb:

Kelly


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

Dave KG said:


> Very nice indeed and glad to see proper care being taken with the paint depth readings through out the wet sanding stage - absolutely essential when you consider the paint depths being removed (I'm inferring 15um from your graphs). How would you say this process has affected the longevity of the clearcoat? Afters show a mirror like shine :thumb:


Hi Dave i dont think a answered this question 

The amount was the most i have ever removed from a factory finish the only time that more was removed would be when the vehicle is being re painted and is having a double amount of clear added , Thats paint as usual cure wet sand down heavly to remove all orange peel etc , the re paint with just clear coat cure and finish with wet sanding again , machine correct to perfection for show cars.

The 15um removal will be fine on the car in the thread with such a large amount of clear to start with , i think someone asked if it affects warrantee as well ?
the fact that the dealerships of a couple of my wet sands where told what was going to be done and are ok with such process says alot .

Can not go into to much detail than that really .

Another thought with the paint depth is a X5 (new) that i have wet sand had paint depth from 160um down to 100um over all the panels from the factory , and i am talking about these variations on the same panel not panel to panel . 
And then had new M3's with 110-125um consitent all over paint depth with soft paint , but also had slightly older M3's with 150um and rock hard paint .

So to sum up how could a bmw tech / paint tech measure a car none wet sand or wet sand and say thats outside the paint depth tolerance if they dont seem to even have one from the factory at the moment .

Just my thoughts , another thing is when you measure paint depth (on badly orange peel cars like the bmw's of late you are measuring with a large probe comparied to the size of peaks and throughs on clear coat , so the probe is sitting onto of a peak not on a flat surface , see the valve (reading) is not the average from the base of the through but the peak . It is possible to reduce the peak down (part wet sand) by wet sanding but not fully (until absolutely flat and matt) , this is only removing a tiny amout of clear and will leave an overall average paint not too disimilar to before sanding .

I hope that makes sense to others you are then removing what can look like alot of material in some cases but only a few microns from the real largest area of paint material at the base .

Its possilble to wet sand and do lots of damage if you use wrong tech , ie finger tips etc because then you are wet sanding the base and peaks with every pass of the sand paper .

its about using the right pressure with a correction flatting block to remove most of the peaks of the orange peel then with a trained eye stop before the peaks are all gone switch to a finer grade and so on , this way when you finally hit the base of the valleys you are on a grade such as 3000 grit , this way you are VERY lightly cutting the base of the valley and refining the heavier cuts from before hand .

Orange peel on soft paint can be reduced with heavy cut pads / wool pads and agrressive compound , but this will round off the peaks more than completely flatten them down level.

Hope that makes some sense and i am sure you could give us all some lovely diagrams if you have not all ready some where 

Kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


----------



## stu1027

I'm just starting out on the whole detailing thing. Eventually I would like to do it for a living. I just want to say that I would work for you for free....you are the Obi Wan Kenobi of paint correction!!!!


----------



## J-P

*It is my car!*

A friend of mine told me that my car was becoming famous on this site. And that's definitely it!

Just looking at those photos reminds me of the awesome work Kelly did on it.

It's time to take it back there now - I want to get the bumper cleaned up and get it all back looking like new. Even now, almost a year later, water still 
beads off it!

Once it's been doen I'll post the photos on here - thanks, for your efforts, Kelly!


----------



## Dan Clark

:doublesho

WOW!!

:argie:


----------



## K2Ri

Amazing! :argie: :thumb:


----------



## scooby73

Stunning work and post!!!!!!:thumb:


----------



## jdoria

Best post I have ever read. Many thanks.


----------



## scottgm

Great finish! Nice colour when theres not orange peel!

I noticed the bottle of Super Snow Foam, how did you get it so thick??


----------



## Barnsley-Bill

Wow fantastic job well done Kelly.


----------



## RandomlySet

top work! Looks like you're another guy i'll have to keep my eye out for when reading in the studio :thumb:


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

stu1027 said:


> I'm just starting out on the whole detailing thing. Eventually I would like to do it for a living. I just want to say that I would work for you for free....you are the Obi Wan Kenobi of paint correction!!!!


Thanks :thumb:

I may well hold you to that quote , where abouts in the country do you live ?

Kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

J-P said:


> A friend of mine told me that my car was becoming famous on this site. And that's definitely it!
> 
> Just looking at those photos reminds me of the awesome work Kelly did on it.
> 
> It's time to take it back there now - I want to get the bumper cleaned up and get it all back looking like new. Even now, almost a year later, water still
> beads off it!
> 
> Once it's been doen I'll post the photos on here - thanks, for your efforts, Kelly!


Hi J-P :wave:

Just to clear a couple of things up the car back early last year has the process as decribed in this thread , then late july came back for a top up of LSP (zaino) .

So that would be about right when it comes down to durablity of sealent .

The first time had AIO with additive then 3 coats of Z2 with additive .

The second visit ( top up visit in july ) was a wash with snow foam and wash down Twice with citrus wash and gloss . Then a very light clay with extra fine , rinse and lastly 3 coats of Z2 .

Thats about the max you will get out of a product on a car being used everyday in all elements 

So you best come in soon J-P 

Kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


----------



## msuvvy/mk4golf

excellent work mate..would love to see this sort of detail on an e36 m3.. then i would be extra happy lol


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

scooby73 said:


> Stunning work and post!!!!!!:thumb:





jdoria said:


> Best post I have ever read. Many thanks.





scottgm said:


> Great finish! Nice colour when theres not orange peel!
> 
> Thanks :thumb:
> 
> I noticed the bottle of Super Snow Foam, how did you get it so thick??


Mixed with CG citrus shampoo



Barnsley-Bill said:


> Wow fantastic job well done Kelly.





-Mat- said:


> top work! Looks like you're another guy i'll have to keep my eye out for when reading in the studio :thumb:


Thanks :thumb:



msuvvy/mk4golf said:


> excellent work mate..would love to see this sort of detail on an e36 m3.. then i would be extra happy lol


I nearly did so but it was yellow and said to owner it would be an overkill on such a light coloured car with only slight orange peel problem

Kelly


----------



## very white r33

Looks the nuts . The E46 looks good any pictures of that .


----------



## Dr Wax

:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho


----------



## wrxmania

Brilliant work.


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

very white r33 said:


> Looks the nuts . The E46 looks good any pictures of that .


Lots of pictures and videos of my M3 to come in the future :thumb:

Really busy and dont get the time to go through all the pics and post them nowadays and this is the busy time of year for 8 months or so , will try my best to carry on with threads . 
Got even better ones lined up. :buffer:



wrxmania said:


> Brilliant work.


Thanks :thumb:

Kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


----------



## russ9898

I keep clicking onto KDS detailing threads. Firstly you do a hell of alot of details. Secondly everyone of them is absolutely stunning.


----------



## mark-p

great job on the m3 interested on what you used on the carbon fibre roof i have been using SRP and poorboys nattys blue but am not impressed.


----------



## remonrace

Nicely done, looks like a big improvement!


----------



## parsman

Gobsmacked!! The mirror finish on that bonnet is jaw dropping.


----------



## Maxym

Really interesting. The usual BMW orange peel polished away - amazing! :thumb:


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

russ9898 said:


> I keep clicking onto KDS detailing threads. Firstly you do a hell of alot of details. Secondly everyone of them is absolutely stunning.


More threads to keep you looking :thumb:



mark-p said:


> great job on the m3 interested on what you used on the carbon fibre roof i have been using SRP and poorboys nattys blue but am not impressed.


Always machine correct the roof then LSP , so never used that combo before and just dont use SRP at all



remonrace said:


> Nicely done, looks like a big improvement!


thanks



parsman said:


> Gobsmacked!! The mirror finish on that bonnet is jaw dropping.


thanks



Maxym said:


> Really interesting. The usual BMW orange peel polished away - amazing! :thumb:


Got another M3 in for same process at the moment :buffer::buffer::buffer::buffer:

Kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


----------



## honeyman

Very impressive work but when are you gonna post your e46 up it looks awesome although I prefer silver/grey but i'm biased lol.


----------



## Moby

Awesome Work, Just wondering though... how did you kno that the orange peel had flatted down??
Can you see that it's gone through the sanding haze?


----------



## PJS

Through experience you get to know what is needed to remove it, but even so, you still polish up to confirm, as well as keep checking thickness/removal rate.
It's not a quick five minute process.
So you may end up sanding, polishing, sanding again, before seeing it's all gone (or as much as the paintwork will let you take out), and polishing up fully.


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

Moby said:


> Awesome Work, Just wondering though... how did you kno that the orange peel had flatted down??
> Can you see that it's gone through the sanding haze?


I will be answer that question and many more as soon as i can , just finished yet another Brand new M3 in jerez black tonight which has been in for last 2 weeks for same process , just got LSP and photos tomorrow ready for customer :thumb:

I have taken a series of photos showing paint depth reading between every stage of the wet flatting (that is between each grade of paper) and at the final stage , and also showing when to stop on the first stage of wet sanding when nearly all of the orange peel has gone .

I guess it will be a new thread combining around 4 different M3's that have been wet sanded :buffer:

Kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


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## Dgioconto




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## gally

I have never seen reflections like that on any car but always knew wet sanding or flattening is the way to a glass finish.

Fantastic work mate.


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## zieluch

One of the best work I have ever seen. Amazing job.


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## PIT

Inspiring...


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## Kelly @ KDS

honeyman said:


> Very impressive work but when are you gonna post your e46 up it looks awesome although I prefer silver/grey but i'm biased lol.





Moby said:


> Awesome Work, Just wondering though... how did you kno that the orange peel had flatted down??
> Can you see that it's gone through the sanding haze?





PJS said:


> Through experience you get to know what is needed to remove it, but even so, you still polish up to confirm, as well as keep checking thickness/removal rate.
> It's not a quick five minute process.
> So you may end up sanding, polishing, sanding again, before seeing it's all gone (or as much as the paintwork will let you take out), and polishing up fully.


Hi phil ,

the first part is correct you have wrote :thumb:

but the sanding and polishing and then sanding again i have never had to do and would be surprised if that was the case for others to

it is quite easy to see when the orange peel has been removed or part removed , just by looking at the panel from a shallow angle or even wetting the panel with water then viewing the finish .

will depend how you are carrying out the wet sanding process , 4 ways really ,

machine from a da sander , then if it has a soft sponge back that the sanding discs are velcro ed to it could follow the contours of panel wave thus not absloute flat finish compared to hard flat back sanding pad .

But hard flat sanding pad can dig in more on curved panels and cause deeper than needed removal in the worng hands .

Hand tech is much the same ,

using the palm of your hand holding the flatting paper correctly your hand will follow the shape of the panel more uniform as you work , but not wet sand as perfectly flat as a hard rubbing down block , but the block will damgae the paint in the wrong hands compared to the feel of your palm .

does that make sense ?

the next step is say if you was to use 3000 grit on a panel using your palm or soft sponge back velcro da sander , this would matte the surface when dry looking like you have removed all the orange peel , just like rubbing a scotch pad over a surface to key up for paint work , it would not be as flat as say

using the same process but using a much sharper cut say 1500 grit with less pressure will knock off just the tops of the orange peel .

similar to say wool compounding with heavy cut on a soft paint could flatten slightly the orange peel compared to finish foam compounding with very light cut at high speed and heavy pressure on the same paint would polish/refine the paint but not flatten it .

I used a hard back surface for the dead flat areas and palm or soft backed da for curved areas use the most agressive grit for the first removal of ornage peel , this is gauge form testing a small area of paint for hardness and rate of removal first :thumb:

using hard surfaces with course grit you will see quite clearly when you are near full removal of orange , but i stop just before and then step up grits for the refining and you should end up removing the last say 20% of the orange peel with the next 3-4 steps refine wet sanding .

Just the same as the machine correction , the first heavy passes remove most / nearly all of the defects of not all then the next grades refine

kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


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## Superspec

Right, been down to B&Q, off into my garage with the black and decker and some assorted sandpaper.......

Only joking, that's awesome. I need my car to look like that!!


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## dhiren_motilal

flawless and absolutely stunning.

Great job.


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## cockney123

*Omg wow*

Fantastic work,just to be nosey what is a ball park figure how much that would cost


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## ITHAQVA

WOW!!!!!! amazing finish, never thought you could get rid of orange peeeel, well impressed.:thumb::thumb::thumb:


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## Raymond

Another impressive write up from KDS


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## Kelly @ KDS

Superspec said:


> Right, been down to B&Q, off into my garage with the black and decker and some assorted sandpaper.......
> 
> Only joking, that's awesome. I need my car to look like that!!


You can IF kds wet sand detail your car :thumb:



dhiren_motilal said:


> flawless and absolutely stunning.
> 
> Great job.


thanks



****ney123 said:


> Fantastic work,just to be nosey what is a ball park figure how much that would cost


You will have to wait until the new kds website is up and running with complete menus for wet sanding packages :thumb:

just dont like posting prices for so many reasons



ITHAQVA said:


> WOW!!!!!! amazing finish, never thought you could get rid of orange peeeel, well impressed.:thumb::thumb::thumb:


Something that i would say do once a month on average to complete cars and maybe every other car would have a panel done to remove poor after market paint repair , so more common than you would think .

Got a few more threads lined up in more depth of the process to come too



Raymond said:


> Another impressive write up from KDS


Big thank you i try to do my best with threads and this was my first one on detailing world :thumb:

kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


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## BRUNBERG

Followed your work for years and have had the pleasure of seeing many cars you have worked on, you are gifted mate


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## styler2002i

BRUNBERG said:


> Followed your work for years and have had the pleasure of seeing many cars you have worked on, you are gifted mate


salaa kanjar is on here aswell.. there no getting away from you is there BRUNO...


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## steveineson

Going on a course for wet sanding at weekend, if I can't do this at the end of the day I want my money back:lol::lol:. The M3 is gorgeous but in my opinion not a patch on your blue one, that is some car.


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## Jav_R

great job man! you´re so professional
great car too


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## Ali

Incredible!


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## ROMEYR32

WOW! Stunning work, great write up - enjoyed reading this!


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## Bowler

1st class job 1st class write up


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## Brooklands

Fantatsic! Great work there!!!


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## DMH-01

Definately one of my favourite M3s ever, still fantastic work looking back.


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## Kelly @ KDS

BRUNBERG said:


> Followed your work for years and have had the pleasure of seeing many cars you have worked on, you are gifted mate


very kind :thumb:



steveineson said:


> Going on a course for wet sanding at weekend, if I can't do this at the end of the day I want my money back:lol::lol:. The M3 is gorgeous but in my opinion not a patch on your blue one, that is some car.


thanks , did you need to get your money back :lol:

still got the blue car does turn heads



Jav_R said:


> great job man! you´re so professional
> great car too


Thank you



Ali said:


> Incredible!





ROMEYR32 said:


> WOW! Stunning work, great write up - enjoyed reading this!





Bowler said:


> 1st class job 1st class write up





Brooklands said:


> Fantatsic! Great work there!!!





DMH-01 said:


> Definately one of my favourite M3s ever, still fantastic work looking back.


many many thanks guys ,

started compling a future thread of wet sanding pics and videos for all to see and view

kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


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## mathyou78

Brilliant work. What do you do when polishing tops of door frames. By hand?


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## gtechrob

heh - kelly - if you downloaded all the phots from your hdd - I think you would crash the forum.

nothing beats a proper flat sand :thumb:


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## dazzyb

epic work
how it should have left the factory


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## bigslippy

Fantastic work there bud , that is some transformation:thumb:


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## Guest

Have to agree that AFTERNOORANGEPEEL6.jpg is an awesome shot, couldn't help but think of Predator - but worry that it might be a bit dangerous to have paintwork that mirrorlike coz some blind bugger is gonna drive straight into you and say they didn't see you, lol. Simply awesome though.


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## David Proctor

Totally stunning in every way...


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## D4NNYT

I want one!!!!


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## gb270

Stunning enough said


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## KREJ_LANA

stunning work


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## dirtybirdy

excellent. love the wheels!


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## hus55

awseome stuff kelly ! will keep my eye open for your future posts..

rgds from cyprus !

hus55


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## fraz101

This may sound daft but i presume orange peel only effects the top lacquer coat and not the paint coat?


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## Kelly @ KDS

mathyou78 said:


> Brilliant work. What do you do when polishing tops of door frames. By hand?


with machine (rotary)



gtechrob said:


> heh - kelly - if you downloaded all the phots from your hdd - I think you would crash the forum.
> 
> nothing beats a proper flat sand :thumb:


soon it will all be on my new website so it will be my server having to cope



dazzyb said:


> epic work
> how it should have left the factory





bigslippy said:


> Fantastic work there bud , that is some transformation:thumb:





CleanMe said:


> Have to agree that AFTERNOORANGEPEEL6.jpg is an awesome shot, couldn't help but think of Predator - but worry that it might be a bit dangerous to have paintwork that mirrorlike coz some blind bugger is gonna drive straight into you and say they didn't see you, lol. Simply awesome though.





David Proctor said:


> Totally stunning in every way...





D4NNYT said:


> I want one!!!!





gb270 said:


> Stunning enough said





KREJ_LANA said:


> stunning work





dirtybirdy said:


> excellent. love the wheels!





hus55 said:


> awseome stuff kelly ! will keep my eye open for your future posts..
> 
> rgds from cyprus !
> 
> hus55


all ready loads of thread like these and more from me easy to just look here

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/tags.php?tag=kds+detailing



fraz101 said:


> This may sound daft but i presume orange peel only effects the top lacquer coat and not the paint coat?


Thats a great question not daft at all , will depend on a few factors.

Is it water based / solvent based / powder coat paint.

is it spray wet on wet , dry on dry , dry sanded and then repainted .

then add how the paint is appiled , its a very large subject.

On some (most cars in the past) the orange peel is in top coat lacquer , but on some makes some of the orange peel is in the under/primer coat , but still most is in the top coat.

what i have seen is most public dont know the correct way to remove orange , so make the asumption that it cant be removed and then say its in the layers , i demo this on my one to one training courses .

a matt flat paint after wet sanding does not mean its "actually fully flat" its all about the process and techniq used .

Thanks to the rest for the nice comments

kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


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## Kelly @ KDS

Here is an example of flat reflection

this is on the inside of a door after repaint










this used to have really heavy carbon weave showing , not any more :thumb:










Kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


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## Kelly @ KDS

Here are some links to training one to one and removing orange peel from the past , i am past double figures for training one to one and the feed back has been great.

in these threads is examples of what went on and how to remove orange peel , enjoy :thumb:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=255203

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=244507

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=255906

kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


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## shuggett

Here is another thread I posted about my training with Kelly (KDS)

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=250717&highlight=shuggett

Steve


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## MidlandsCarCare

I have nothing but praise for the tuition I received from Kelly - without a doubt the most informative tuition I've received and best money I've spent in a long time!

That Enzo is something else...


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## phill313

What a transformation ! Great job !


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## Steve Burnett

The orange peel is sooooo bad. I was next to a 3 series yesterday and it looked even worse than that. I know modern paints are to blame but should BMW really be turning out cars that llok this way?? Could you reject a brand new car if it turned up looking like that??


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## Kelly @ KDS

Steve Burnett said:


> The orange peel is sooooo bad. I was next to a 3 series yesterday and it looked even worse than that. I know modern paints are to blame but should BMW really be turning out cars that llok this way?? Could you reject a brand new car if it turned up looking like that??


Now the thing is for one reason and another , i do get a lot of enquires / advice about this problem on BxW's ,

I actually wet sand many new BxW's per year , and have also got involved with what you have just posted , IE reject / whos paying for re-work .

I know its gone extremely high within the group too with this problem.

But i cant post much..... meaning many cars being wet sanded or advertise the fact (the reason for lack of wet sanding info / packages on my own website or posts on here) or publish it , as a certain car maker will come down hard on me.

Its got politics involved that i cant post info.

Reject maybe  maybe not 
dealer pay maybe  maybe not

once a car is a few years old then its fine , its having a gallery full of brand new cars with double figure mileage only a few days old then showing them completely wet sanded i think is not to their liking or the finished results

Kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


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## Alan W

Kelly @ KDS said:


> Its got politics involved that i cant post info.


That's quite an expose Kelly! 

Alan W


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## Black.MB

Amazing job, thanks for sharing:thumb:


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## G4V JW

Some read this , excellent Kelly , almost 3 years since original post !

I can imagine said manufacturer ain't too happy with the difference you are making , but when you pay that sort of money for them sort of cars the buyer shouldn't be unhappy with brand new paint !

Surely they should be getting there act together if they don't like it !


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