# Moved to rotary but can`t get the finish?



## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

Just moved over to a rotary after 8 years of DA. I found it very easy to use and also blatently obvious how NOT to use if you know what I mean.
The only problem is after trying a variety of combinations I cant get a good finish and have to revert back to the DA to get the gloss I desire?
Any ideas? The cut is there but leaves a hologrammed finish everytime?


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## dave- (Nov 8, 2012)

What pads and polish r u finishing with and what RPM and pressure r u using ?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

You're not breaking the polish down fully, what polish and pads are you using and on what car/paint?


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

Audi A3 59 plate, sonus SFX1 with menzerna PO85RD and also tried SFX2 pad with 3M fast cut plus


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

dave- said:


> What pads and polish r u finishing with and what RPM and pressure r u using ?


Using minimal pressure on speed 4 (speed is 0-6)


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Speed is far too high to finish, I've never had my rotary on 4 tbh.


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

OK, will try again with lower speed. Only thing is that at lower speed it would only seem to cut as fast as a DA which surely defeats the purpose?


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

mattler said:


> OK, will try again with lower speed. Only thing is that at lower speed it would only seem to cut as fast as a DA which surely defeats the purpose?


On your lowest setting on your rotary which rpm is the machine running at ?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

What technique are you using? Zenith point I assume with menz polishes?


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

bigmc said:


> What technique are you using? Zenith point I assume with menz polishes?


Ok, now you`ve lost me


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

How are you working the polish? Have you read the guides on here?


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

bigmc said:


> How are you working the polish? Have you read the guides on here?


Not read guides on here but took advice from someone experienced with rotary.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

What are your speeds on the rotary ?, are you breaking down the defects at 1,200 rpm -1,500rpm then 900rpm then to 600rpm for a example.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

mattler said:


> Not read guides on here but took advice from someone experienced with rotary.


Take some time to rad the guides DaveKG has written. I don't like menz polishes but spread on speed 1, work up to 3 then when the polish has gone clear work back down to 1 with little to no pressure on the machine.


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## dave- (Nov 8, 2012)

Alot of people have had simular problems and finish with a DA or these days the Flex 3401 vrg is all the rage. 
Finishing fast with a rotary is advanced rotary use territory I think and thats why the problems are showing maybe, but try slower speed anyway because if your rotary is like mine the No 4 speed from 1-6 is 2100 RPM which is too fast.


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

mattler said:


> Ok, now you`ve lost me


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

This name Zenith, was this named from dave kg ?


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

mattler said:


> OK, will try again with lower speed. Only thing is that at lower speed it would only seem to cut as fast as a DA which surely defeats the purpose?


Cannot compare speed of rotary to DA, apples and oranges. Speed 4 on my rotary is about 2500rpm which is pretty damn fast. There is probably not many polishes which really need to go that much over 1500rpm and when finishing you probably need to be at the lowest speed


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Trip tdi said:


> This name Zenith, was this named from dave kg ?


No, it was a term that was coined by Brazo on here many moons ago and it has since stuck to aptly describe the technique of slow to an ideal working point then refine back down the speeds again.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Dave KG said:


> No, it was a term that was coined by Brazo on here many moons ago and it has since stuck to aptly describe the technique of slow to an ideal working point then refine back down the speeds again.


Thank you, you are a legend :thumb:


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

Cant believe how little product was used in the vid!! I will continue with research then try again!!!


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

High speed finishing is essential to get that super shine that we are all after. My Rupes rotary spins at 1850rpm top speed which is perfect for finishing with a 3m blue pad and UltraFina.

I start slow to spread the polish then top speed for a least 10 mins per panel getting just enough heat in it to burnish the paint then slow right down for several passes, nice bling finish with on holograms.

I teach this on courses I run and it amazes people how long I spend finishing a panel.


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

OK, I`ve now applied my research to the task in hand and set to work on my bootlid! Works a treat, I used the same menzerna + a lake county orange pad and the results were amazing!! Normally I would go for a cleanser but in this case I went straight on with sealer and then wax. Great finish


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)




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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

Really amazes me how sooo many people are really quick to criticise when you do it wrong but when you get it right everyone just completely ignores you!!! NICE!


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## dave- (Nov 8, 2012)

Amazing for a car that was done with their second harshest pad.


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

Well, something obviously worked?


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## Princy (Dec 14, 2011)

By jove I think he's got it :buffer:

Nice finish :thumb:


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## dave- (Nov 8, 2012)

Yea you cant beat rotary, have you tried wet sanding scratches out and then polishing ? Thats the best skill ever but I would not do it on a BMW first lol, too expensive if it went wrong or whatever...


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

mattler said:


> Cant believe how little product was used in the vid!! I will continue with research then try again!!!


Small amounts of product are key - too much and you are essentially just wasting product and spend a lot more time breaking it all down, you can also clot the pads and reduce their effectiveness.

Boot is looking nice in the reflection, get a direct light on it and check the refinement of the finish to make sure there are no machine marks


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

I haven`t got a light I can put over it but I`ve took a few more under the floodlight, I`m pleased with the finish.
The only issue I have is that the rotary seems to get to the same end point only a bit quicker?


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

The pictures look good to me


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

lowejackson said:


> The pictures look good to me


Cheers dude :thumb:
The slight blurring you can see is from my scratched HTC lense, in real life there are no imperfections.
This is the result of my cutting stage but to me it looks right to go straight to lsp?? I cant see how a cleanse could improve things??


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

A finishing polish will improve gloss and clarity. It looks like you've mastered the rotary now then


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

If it was me I would refine it or at least do a test section. Ultimately as long as you are happy with the outcome that is what counts


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

lowejackson said:


> If it was me I would refine it or at least do a test section. Ultimately as long as you are happy with the outcome that is what counts


I have noticed (even with the DA) that going over with limeprime or SFX3 before LSP seems to make the whole LSP stage a lot easier and brings a deeper shine! This maybe placebo though


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

It's not placebo you're making the paint that little bit smoother again so it looks clearer.


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

I suspect it is not the placebo effect here. As Bigmc says, refining is where you bring out the gloss.


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

OK, so I guess just stick at it then. Is it worth doing multiple passes with the likes of limeprime?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

What else do you have in your arsenal? SFX3 or megs ultimate polish is my go to for finishing.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

That's a really good finish on the bonnet, nice colour :thumb:


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

bigmc said:


> What else do you have in your arsenal? SFX3 or megs ultimate polish is my go to for finishing.


Yes, I`ve got SFX3. I tend to use that when Im going for a sealer EG SFX4 and use limeprime when the LSP is to be bluevelvet.
No special reason other than just keeping same manufacturers.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Do you still have the DA? I'd finish with the DA if you have, if not use the SFX3 on the softest pad you have and use the zenith point method. Start slow and work up to around 1500rpm until it's virtually invisible then work back down the speeds to 1 with very little pressure on the head of the machine.


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

I`ve still got the DA so you reckon finish with that? Still with SFX3 and soft pad? And can I use Zenith point with the DA or just go as normal with it?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Yes I'd go with the DA to finish, same method but spread on 1 work up to 4 the do a few passes until it goes clear and work back down and do a few light weight passes on 1 after you've worked it.


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

OKi Doke  Will try that tomorrow


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

Just so I`m clear though, is Zenith Point only for finishing or can you aim to cut with it?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

You can cut with it too, in my experience its the best way to use the SFX range.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

mattler said:


> Just so I`m clear though, is Zenith Point only for finishing or can you aim to cut with it?


It is a "standard" polishing technique for working polishes which use diminshing abrasives, be them finishing or cutting polishes so you can use for both... Be flexible though, sometimes you need not refine at slower speeds if you are planning on following with a dedicated finishing polish, other times you may feel you want to refine, or perhaps spend less time at slower speeds at the start of the set etc etc... experiment, find what works for you, it will likely be different from what works for me and that is fine, so long as it gets the results


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## Ronnie (Nov 15, 2006)

With the audi you should be fine has any part ben repainted you should know if u have a paint gauge.ot takes practise to finish woth a rotary took me a year i would say. Dont practiae on your car old panels will help and if u can get an audi panel even better You will find not all cars like to be finished by rotary and it will take practise and persiverance to get round it even now on some cars as a belt and nraces we will finish with arotary then do an additional pass by da to ensure we have not missed anything.


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## mattler (Apr 17, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies guys:thumb:
Since I last posted on this thread I`ve taken my technique to a completely new level! The only thing I do find though is that even with the likes of Menz fast gloss and SFX1 pad the cut doesn`t really seem that agressive??
I also find that I dont appear to need to finish before LSP as the finish using ZPT and the products mentioned above is flawless. Unless theres another benefit from using a finishing polish that I`m missing??


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Yes that finishing polish is doing what it says its FINISHING the POLISH stage.
Otherwise known as jewelling and really refining the finish ready for your lsp ( which should only be applied to paint that is as near perfect as you can get it. It thenonly protects what you have it should NOT enhance that much what you have done in the polishing stages)
Use this finishing polish at the lowest speed possible and just keep going until it goes clear(ish) a quick drop of qd will bring it back if it dries out too quickly.


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