# Pressure washer selection



## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

After becoming sick of budget units, I have decided that I need to invest some cash in a decent spec unit.

After reading a lot of threads on here, I have shortlisted a few models and would like to try and clarify a few pros/cons and see if I have missed anything. A good few people have proven to be most informative and have given me a lot more information than I've found from reading product pages.

Currently, I use an outdoor tap and mains, but it would be nice to have the flexibility to use supply from a water butt and/or generator - not essential though by any means. I will use it for usual domestic duties but even so want something that will last more than just a few years, I am prepared to do the proper servicing to make sure that this happens.

Have I missed any details or got anything badly wrong? Or is there anything else that I should be looking into? 

My choices
P 150.2-10 X-TRA (£355 inc. VAT delivered)

Pros
Strong flow rate
Brass head
Different lance nozzle included for patio cleaning
Induction motor, and large too so probably quite powerful and not over-strained
Hose storage

Cons
Fit and finish doesn't quite seem to rival the Kranzle standard
Bulkier, not easy for transporting in my Fiesta if req'd.
Aluminium piston or other internal part? (compared to Kranzle spec)
Higher motor speed?
Motor size won't be generator friendly, unless it's a big generator
Not sure if this will use water from a tap on a water butt.
Not compatible with other Nilfisk Click n Connect fittings such as underbody lance?

Not sure what sort of speed the motor runs at.

Kranzle K1050P (£310 inc. VAT delivered)

Pros
Compact
Lance storage on machine
Good fittings
Brass head, stainless steel parts
Has the Total stop function I believe?

Cons
8m hose
Hose is understandably not the same quality as the more expensive K7/122
Higher motor speed - higher wear on motor than a K7 (for me as a domestic user I doubt that this would ever be a real issue)
Will this still use water from a water butt given the higher motor speed?
No other lances included

Not too sure how these fare being run on a generator.

Kranzle K7/122 -most likely non TS (£435 inc. VAT delivered)

Pros
Compact
Good fittings
Brass head, stainless steel parts
Good for use with water butt
Good for use on generator
10m good hose
Low motor speed

Cons
Highest cost out of my options
No other lances or kit included (I don't explicitly need extra kit though)
Lowest flow rate, but still sufficient for my needs

Would you normally just turn off the power on non total stop models if not immediately using again to prolong lifespan?
Also recall that the Total Stop models can have an effect on generator use with the fluctuating power demand.


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

I have an HD7/122, which I chose specifically to use with a low pressure supply ie rainwater from a water butt.

It's a great machine, built like a tank, easy to transport due to compact size and packs a lot of 'oomph' for a 1.6kW machine. It suits my situation as I wash cars on the drive so the machine never really moves, it would not be much fun moving it any distance without some sort of cart though! It's the non TS version, I just switch it off if I won't be using it for a few minutes.

I think your decision mostly hinges on whether it's really important to you to be able to use stored water without additional equipment - Kränzle have told me that the 2800rpm machine are not suitable for this due to cavitation damage to the pistons.

Of course you could look at it the other way ie if you want to use stored water, install a pump so that there is no risk to the PW no matter the motor speed.

I have never heard a bad word spoken about the P150, that said I couldn't tell you what, if anything it gives up in engineering to the Kränzle machines. Kränzle (unsurprisingly!) are very forthcoming about the level of quality that fits into their power washers, but it's hard to find equivalent information from Nilfisk, even for the higher and machines.

General consensus on generator use seems to be that it's not good for the generator or the machine to run a PW with motor stop/start on a generator. The P150 is bumping up against the limits of a 13A circuit so generators would need to be specified accordingly.


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

steelghost said:


> I have an HD7/122, which I chose specifically to use with a low pressure supply ie rainwater from a water butt.
> 
> It's a great machine, built like a tank, easy to transport due to compact size and packs a lot of 'oomph' for a 1.6kW machine. It suits my situation as I wash cars on the drive so the machine never really moves, it would not be much fun moving it any distance without some sort of cart though! It's the non TS version, I just switch it off if I won't be using it for a few minutes.
> 
> ...


Great response. I have also found out a great deal about the Kranzles from your posts elsewhere I can tell that you have done your homework. Thinking about it now, I really would like to be able to use a water butt as drying to prevent spotting on my paintwork is becoming more and more tedious.

Great idea re the pump as I hadn't really looked into the setup of the water butts previously. When I looked at the K1050P there are a couple of things included over the standard K7, such as the quick release; all in all it is definately a great machine, I have a local company near me selling them for £299. The specs of the washers can be either quite vague or very ambiguous: on Elite's site it does say that 'Inlet water can be gravity fed to machine' for the K1050P, but as you and Kranzle say, there could be issues regarding cavitation if the minimum 7.5LPM is not available, especially as the water level of the butt lowers. Kranzle are pretty clear that damage as a result of cavitation is not covered. I cannot envisage me getting a K7 at the moment, unless I wait for a short while, as with the cost of the extra bits and pieces that I'd _want_, such as the quick release fittings for snow foam lance and dirt killer lance for my drive, is soon seeing the price creep up.

I have pretty much dismissed the P150, but I am considering a Nilfisk-Alto Poseidon 2-22 T which I have seen priced at £390. It's not a great deal cheaper than the prices of a K7/122 or K10/122 but it does seem to have a decent spec with more things included and aside from outright flow rate, seems to be better than a P150, it has:
ceramic coated stainless steel pistons
it will suck/draw water, albeit only 0.5m (again a min 9LPM needs to be supplied)
it also appears to have a good lance and assortment of lance options

I am just continuing to hunt out the best deal for each as this ultimately has a big influence on the final decision. I shall most likely have to factor in the cost of a water butt pump for anything other than a K7 as it isn't worth starving a new machine. I shall update the thread with what I eventually choose to buy.


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

Kranzle said:


> Hi,
> Sorry for the late reply, I was in Germany at the Kranzle factory.
> 
> The 1050 is a fast speed motor at 2800rpm and as a result the plungers have a much faster stroke. This makes the stroke less efficient and you get a much faster vacuum when the plunger pulls back; this vacuum draws air from the water and cause cavitation.
> ...


I think the above more than clarifies the need for an auxiliary pump if there was any question otherwise re the 2800rpm pumps.


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

c87reed said:


> I think the above more than clarifies the need for an auxiliary pump if there was any question otherwise re the 2800rpm pumps.


Indeed - I think of it like driving every where in second gear, you can do it, but it's not recommended for any length of time.

It's interesting how the calculus for this sort of purchase has changed in the nearly two years since I bought mine.

In October 2015 a non-TS HD7/122 from Hytec Hydraulik cost €400 (including delivery to the UK) and you could get 1.3€ for every pound. That meant you could get one for barely more than £300, which was a saving of almost a third on the UK price (German VAT is 19% so there's a slight saving there, offset by the need to replace the plug )

These days the same machine costs €450 and a pound doesn't even get you 1.1€, so that route is far less attractive.

If I were buying again I think I'd be very tempted by the Kränzle K1050TST, but that's still a £500 machine, and it's hard to choose between that and the higher end Nilfisk you mentioned. In the end as you say it's likely to come down to the best deal you can find.

Whatever you get I would urge you to find the budget for a proper under body lance, the amount of muck that comes out of wheel arches etc when I use it is astonishing, and this on a car that mostly drives in suburban south Manchester!


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

steelghost said:


> Indeed - I think of it like driving every where in second gear, you can do it, but it's not recommended for any length of time.
> 
> It's interesting how the calculus for this sort of purchase has changed in the nearly two years since I bought mine.
> 
> ...


I do get the underside on mine sprayed as best as you can with a standard lance, but do intend on getting one in the coming months, especially as I'm going to be travelling to work through the Dales. It always amazes me when I do vehicles in the family how much dirt I get out, I explain to them that they are just asking for corrosion issues.

Out of interest, what is it that would tempt you towards the K1050TST? It can be had for around £440 delivered from Autobrite. It is good in the sense that you are getting both of the lances, 12m hose, total-stop (good if mains powered) and the quick-release.

The best I've found for others price wise, excluding any extras, delivered:
K7/122 £434
K1050P pick-up £299 or delivered £310
Nilfisk-Alto Poseidon 2-22 T £390

Prices can soon change by the time you factor a hose upgrade for 1050 models (if wanting better quality hose), or the quick release fittings for the non-equipped models.


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

c87reed said:


> Out of interest, what is it that would tempt you towards the K1050TST? It can be had for around £440 delivered from Autobrite. It is good in the sense that you are getting both of the lances, 12m hose, total-stop (good if mains powered) and the quick-release.


As I understand it (based on this PDF) the K1050TST comes with a proper rubber & steel braided hose on a built in reel, you've got the Kranzle roto-mould chassis with good size wheels so it's easy to move and store, as well as being damn near bomb-proof, plus you get the QR system already included plus the dirt blaster lance.

For £440 as a highly capable all rounder for home use, that's hard to beat and for me would be worth the extra over the Nilfisk due to the extra lance and the reel.

It *would *require a pump to use stored water but to spec an HD7 up to the same level would cost more than a pump + fittings.

The issue of using it with a generator is trickier - but that's a general issue with any PW equipped with stop-start (ie most of them). This is why the HD7/122 is particularly popular with mobile detailers and valeters since it's got the slow motor (hence works with tanks) as well as being available in a non-TS version (so works well with generators).

Have you seen this thread in the "Eco Detailing" forum? It's a really good write up of equipping a water butt setup with a pump so as to be able to use it through the PW. Well worth a read if you haven't seen it.


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

Well, after Amazon's sale price of £249.99 on the Nilfisk P150, I thought that I had finally found a suitable machine and went ahead with the order.

Finally got around to unpacking today, so here are a few pictures for anybody considering one. Unfortunately, mine arrived damaged; I do know of others that have also arrived damaged too. Due to the damage, I didn't test the machine.


























































Visually, I wasn't wholly impressed. The hose looks sound, as do the brass connections, although some fittings on the lance length are plastic. At £250, it makes for a sound purchase, but when sold for the usual figure of approx £350 I would defiantly opt to pay the extra for a Kranzle machine. In parts it looks very cheaply made, almost like a child's toy. As the box wasn't even damaged, I would say the plastics are quite brittle. The turn switches did feel nice and sturdy though. Good onboard storage too for lance and fittings. The detergent bottle looks like it is very much an after thought as it difficult to fit/remove. It's the little details that separate the machines for me, such as having rubber feet, better quality components and improved fit and finish.


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Shame about the casing damage, at least Amazon are reasonably good about returns.


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

steelghost said:


> Shame about the casing damage, at least Amazon are reasonably good about returns.


Amazon are great for that kind of thing, as they often do new for old rather than shipping off to a repairer. The returns process is always worth considering when purchasing any item, after all that thing is a really hefty! Bought on my partner's prime account so sadly it's up to her to sort out.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Out of interest, what happens with the Kranzle PWs without total stop? Is it a case of turn them on at the mains and they start shooting water until you switch it off, or does the motor just keep running when you're not spraying and (presumably) utilises some sort of valve system to vent the generated pressure?

Stop start seems like such a basic function of a pressure washer!


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

My limited understanding of it is that all Kranzle machines without TS divert the supply of pressurised water to a different circuit within the machine. The TS models have a pressure switch which will therefore know when you have pressed the trigger so the motor won't be running all the time.

Someone else will clarify properly and probably correct me on that.


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

There is a post in the Kranzle bit of the forum where they explain in more detail, but essentially the motor keeps running but there is some sort of "feedback" valve so the pressure is maintained but the pump doesn't go pop.

He likened it to stop start in a car. In a car without it, the engine is able to idle when the car is not moving.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks for explaining. So the only real difference is that you use less power with the start stop one, I guess?

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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Less power, and slightly less wear on pistons, bearings etc (although the way they make the pistons means their lifespan, absent any abuse or mishap, is incredibly long).

However the power surges (technically, inrush currents) involved when starting the motor are not good if trying to run a machine off a generator so this is one reason they produce the non-TS versions.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Cool, thanks for clearing that up.

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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

Following the purchase of the P150, my partner has negotiated a discount of £50 (20% of the price paid) for the crack on the front panel from Amazon. Just a case of double checking that there is no other damage. The plastic panels can be purchased for £23 so it's a no brainer really; I have the option of changing it or just using plain araldite.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Good work!

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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

c87reed said:


> Following the purchase of the P150, my partner has negotiated a discount of £50 (20% of the price paid) for the crack on the front panel from Amazon. Just a case of double checking that there is no other damage. The plastic panels can be purchased for £23 so it's a no brainer really; I have the option of changing it or just using plain araldite.


If you can glue it from behind you could do a near-invisible repair for not much money at all. A P150 for £200 is a bargain, assuming it lasts well :thumb:


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

steelghost said:


> If you can glue it from behind you could do a near-invisible repair for not much money at all. A P150 for £200 is a bargain, assuming it lasts well :thumb:


I pushed the cracked plastic section that was sticking out and it 'clipped' back into place. The crack is still visible as you'd expect but it's hardly noticeable and doesn't affect the operation of the machine in the slightest.

Looking forward to giving it a go once my new snow foam lance arrives tomorrow.


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

Bit of an update; having been on holiday etc I have only just got around to using the machine.

Also tried my new foam lance from amazon, which did a gun job.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pressure-Washer-Nilfisk-Gerni-Compatible/dp/B00O9XPX1A/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1505150068&sr=8-4&keywords=snow+foam+lance+nilfisk

The P150 is a nice quiet running machine, I tend to leave in the garage and once switched on there is a short hum and then I don't hear it over the sound of the water spray. I don't know if this has ever been mentioned before, but once fully rolled out the hose touches the side of the reel and over time the vibration would rub a hole in the hose; it needs a quick mod to prevent it touching. The main nozzle is adjustable, but from what I can gather is only meant to be set on a wide-ish fan or a low pressure detergent drizzle and nothing in-between. The jet feels like it packs a good punch.

Used it to clean some engrained dirt off the paving slabs on my side path and the whole path was back to new in a few minutes. The tornado jet cleans a wide area with decent power and cuts down on the time needed.

Really pleased with the machine. As I've said before, the outer plastics and wheels etc are just average/adequate but it definitely performs well as a machine.


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

You'll only ever need to buy a Kranzle once and never need to buy another pw,if you have it looked aftered,the king pf pw's imho,if you're concerned about flow rate buy the k10 better flow rate,the k7 is geared more towards mobile washing using a watertank hence the water flow efficiency.


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

suspal said:


> You'll only ever need to buy a Kranzle once and never need to buy another pw,if you have it looked aftered,the king pf pw's imho,if you're concerned about flow rate buy the k10 better flow rate,the k7 is geared more towards mobile washing using a watertank hence the water flow efficiency.


I have to agree with you. When I eventually get another machine, money permitting it would be a Kranzle. When I bought the the P150, the deal I ended up getting turned out to be nearly £250 cheaper than the Kranzle I'd want, which I just couldn't justify at present. Hopefully it'll be a long while until I need another but who knows.


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

Mate with the money I've spent on pw's I'd wish I'd bought a Kranzle years ago same thing as most people,was being a tight a£$%,no looking back since I bought my beast.


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## Martians1 (Sep 7, 2017)

*P150*

I have a P 150 and after 10 minutes running it seems to seize up and blow a fuse.can anyone help,have you had this problem.


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

Martians1 said:


> I have a P 150 and after 10 minutes running it seems to seize up and blow a fuse.can anyone help,have you had this problem.


They are nearly running/drawing 13 amps from the socket, so if you run it with an extension lead it could have an affect. If so, check the rating of the extension lead and make sure that it's not too long. Aside from that, check for loose connections etc. I haven't had any issues as yet though.


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