# On the subject of after market HIDs - an opinion



## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

I know aftermarket HIDs are a hot topic, I found this the other day lifted from the VOSA MOT manual on the DFT's website:


Screen shot 2011-11-26 at 09.27.55 by jonnyguitar, on Flickr

Note that an HID/Xenon lamp may be identified by having 'DCR' marked on the lens. I've not checked my OEM xenons for this, so I don't know if it's a MUST have.

This bit \/ is taken from a DFT tech manual (you can find these all on t'interweb folks) but says (this is a slightly abridged version):



> Section 1.7 - Headlamps
> To keep the test up to date with modern technology, new checks have been added in respect of High Intensity Discharge (HID) and Light Emitting Diode (LED) lamps.......
> 
> .......The downside of [the] extra brightness is the potential to cause excessive dazzle to oncoming traffic. To combat this, HID headlamps often have advanced electronics that control the shape of the headlamp beam to avoid dazzle when the car climbs or descends hills and likewise when the vehicle is accelerating or braking.
> ...


Actually when I say abridged, I mean I knocked out a paragraph that wasn't really very relevant. It's interesting to note that the MOT manual says that cars with HIDs _may_ be fitted with washers and self levellers, but doesn't say they _must_ be fitted with either, only if they are they must work.

Specifically on the subject of aftermarket HIDs, the DFT's info hasn't been updated since 2006, so you would have to assume that's the most up to date info you can get.

I _did_ have an aftermarket 4300K HID kit, I _was_ aware of the law, the car _did_ pass an MOT at the time as they were aligned properly, fitted to (halogen) projectors and had a SUPER sharp beam cut off, they _weren't_ actually that good. I knew they weren't legal as they had no headlight washers and no self levellers but I was never once flashed in 12 months by an oncoming car. I don't condone the use of them, some of the 100000000K kits are ridiculous and dazzling. I'd have never fitted a set in a reflector headlight but using the projectors somehow made it acceptable (don't ask me how I arrived at this conclusion, I'm still not entirely comfortable with it!). Whilst I wasn't flashed by an oncoming car, my mate and bass player did say it was a nightmare having me behind him in the dark (usually on the way home from gigs at 3am) as the lights would be quite dazzling in the mirrors. I put that down to the stiff suspension and brightness rather than them specifically being HID.

Would I fit an aftermarket kit again? Unlikely tbh - I certainly wouldn't ever put one in a reflector unit and there are better halogen lamps available now. 
I'm still not entirely convinced that aftermarket versions are a good idea unless you buy reputable brands (Philips make an H7 kit, probably in China, but at least their QC is on a higher level) or use one of the Retrofit Source's kits with a xenon projector, good quality ballast and a proper D1 or D2 lamp.

Just a few thoughts on it anyway.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Been saying this for ages, it looks like people might actually have to listen now if the law is changing.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

My brother in law is training for his MOT tester certs atm.. and the vosa tester said they are thinking of banning all aftermarket xenon kits, 
its a safety thing, he said the have had a lot of people complain about the blinding aspect with no self leveling effect on.
Also he said a lot of the aftermarket kits have a power invertor type box, that has caused a lot of engine bay fires due to the heat it creates and most are mounted near insulation/sound deadening..


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## Jordan (Dec 22, 2008)

CraigQQ said:


> My brother in law is training for his MOT tester certs atm.. and the vosa tester said they are thinking of banning all aftermarket xenon kits,
> its a safety thing, he said the have had a lot of people complain about the blinding aspect with no self leveling effect on.
> Also he said a lot of the aftermarket kits have a power invertor type box, that has caused a lot of engine bay fires due to the heat it creates and most are mounted near insulation/sound deadening..


Normal HID's/Xenons have them aswell, they have to, due to them running at 25,000 volts, look on the slam panel of these cars, it'll give you a shock warning.

Dno where sound insulation would be on a engine bay, only on the top of the bonnet i wouls imagine, or the firewall on the rear, but the wires arent long enough.

I had them for a month or 2 in the seat, and fitted them properly, leveled them etc, it actually makes some difference when driving, but i took them out and sold them to a mate with an A4 with the projectors.

I had mine well hidden anyway incase the copshop took a snoop :lol:

http://image.importtuner.com/f/27571721/impp_1007_08_o+BLITZ_nissan_GTR_r35+engine_bay.jpg warning on the slam panel at the bonnet pin, i'd love a 25kvolt battery :lol:


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## markbob917 (Aug 31, 2010)

stupid question (i dont have HID's btw) the self levelling is that the control in the car?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

markbob917 said:


> stupid question (i dont have HID's btw) the self levelling is that the control in the car?


No but it can be, most are done automatically via suspension load sensors.


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

My car is fitted with a 4300k H7R kit and I've not had any issues with being flashed, there's simply a piece of black plastic that covers up part of the bulb and this removes the glare and means that the beam pattern is exactly the same as it was before with halogen lights.

Hopefully there will be some retrofit headlamp washer and auto leveller kits available before too long because they don't seem to exist at the moment, if these don't become available all cars with aftermarket HID kits will fail an MOT and the kits may as well just be made illegal.


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## Smithey1981 (Oct 4, 2011)

The main issue with his kits are fitting the wrong kit I.e not using a r kit in reflector style headlights and not having your alignment checked and adjusted. I have fitted loads of kits but always insure the right kit is used and also the ballasts are mounted safely and correctly. They make night time driving safer.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

bigmc said:


> No but it can be, most are done automatically via suspension load sensors.


*self* levelling. It needs to do it automatically.


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

haven't got a problem with em if fitted the correct way with all the bits to go with them i.e. levelling, washers etc.... its the young ones who just want nice bright lights which look cool and dont give a toss about road users who have spoilt it


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Nanoman said:


> *self* levelling. It needs to do it automatically.


Technically not really normal halogen lights you can adjust yourself in the car, Xenons adjust themselfs, my lights test them selfs everytimg i switch the car on and if your quick enough with the lights you can see the beam go down and them back up its pretty cool, only when you lower the car the xenons need realigned and you cant do that yourself unless you have VCDS and a lightbox used at an MOT station so a trip to the dealers at £60 to do it :doublesho

I would never buy another car without Xenons though.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> Technically not really normal halogen lights you can adjust yourself in the car, Xenons adjust themselfs, my lights test them selfs everytimg i switch the car on and if your quick enough with the lights you can see the beam go down and them back up its pretty cool, only when you lower the car the xenons need realigned and you cant do that yourself unless you have VCDS and a lightbox used at an MOT station so a trip to the dealers at £60 to do it :doublesho
> 
> I would never buy another car without Xenons though.


The regs state that to pass an MOT the lights need to be *self *levelling. I frequently use my manual adjustment to make sure I don't dazzle people... I just wish others would too.

(I don't have HIDs).


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

There's two types of person there, there people like me who want them for the extra brightness and fit the proper kit for the type of headlamp and get them checked and properly aligned and go for an OEM colour so they blend in with everyone else. Then there's the other type (normally the boy racers) who just want them for the colour, these are the people that this new legislation is there to stop, these are the people who have fitted the deep blue 8k and 10k 55w kits and haven't bothered to get them checked or aligned.


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## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

That's the thing, the only way to do it properly as far as the law is concerned is to use OEM units, self levellers and washers otherwise it's not being done properly. I did it your way and I still didn't think I was doing it properly.



Nanoman said:


> The regs state that to pass an MOT the lights need to be *self *levelling. I frequently use my manual adjustment to make sure I don't dazzle people... I just wish others would too.
> 
> (I don't have HIDs).


The dft regs say you should have self levelling and washers but it seems the MOT manual's version of a pass is that *if* fitted they must work. That's my interpretation of the two different texts in the first post.


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## Captain Pugwash (Mar 23, 2011)

Have had HID's fitted to my Calibra for years.. even before all the these kits started coming on ebay, I got them from the USA and they are made by Hella and cost quite a bit at the time. they have a safety cut out and I have the warning stickers as well for high voltage

I would not say I have never had some flash their lights at me, but there again I have had that with my other car with just normal bulbs fitted as well ( and I bet so has others with normal lights at times) I always used the level switch when I was towing the caravan or the car was full

The Calibra has projection headlights though and i dont see the problem, its far worse with all these people that seem to think its necessary to drive with front fog lights on even when its a clear night, as far as I am aware that is also illegal but they still do it 

so I think I will continue to keep the HID lights on and wait and see what happens, apparently the Police are already pulling people over and given them a correction notice to get them removed ..but it seems those with them in reflector lights


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## Dannbodge (Sep 26, 2010)

I have an aftermarket hid kit on my Corsa.
It doesn't have washers or levelling suspension but I always keep lights clean and adjust the height whenever I have weight in the car.

The beam pattern they give off are just as good as my dad's BMW.
Personally I will be leaving them in until or if it fails the mot, then will put normal bulbs in and just switch them back afterwards.

I don't see why I should have to suffer with headlights that are about as much use as candles when mine with hids are just as normal as every high end car ok the road

Sent from my Desire HD


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Dannbodge said:


> I don't see why I should have to suffer with headlights that are about as much use as candles when mine with hids are just as normal as every high end car ok the road


But they aren't as normal as every high end car on the road. Sure, the beam pattern may look OK when static, but the beam height isn't being constantly changed as you drive over bumps in the road or over a hill. This is where most people are dazzled. I had to slow right down to almost a stop last night on the A15 because some prick had aftermarket HIDs and fog lights on. I couldn't see a bloody thing. 



Laurie.J.M said:


> There's two types of person there, there people like me who want them for the extra brightness and fit the proper kit for the type of headlamp and get them checked and properly aligned and go for an OEM colour so they blend in with everyone else. Then there's the other type (normally the boy racers) who just want them for the colour, these are the people that this new legislation is there to stop, these are the people who have fitted the deep blue 8k and 10k 55w kits and haven't bothered to get them checked or aligned.


If you want HIDs you should get OEM kit from your car manufacturer so that everything is type tested. There is no 'proper kit' if you are just replacing the lamp. The legislation is there to stop 'both' of the people you describe. HIDs are unsuitable for fittings that previously had halogen lamps in them.

Or just stop being cheap and select it as an option when you get your car/choose a car with them fitted.


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## Smithey1981 (Oct 4, 2011)

SteveyG said:


> But they aren't as normal as every high end car on the road. Sure, the beam pattern may look OK when static, but the beam height isn't being constantly changed as you drive over bumps in the road or over a hill. This is where most people are dazzled. I had to slow right down to almost a stop last night on the A15 because some prick had aftermarket HIDs and fog lights on. I couldn't see a bloody thing.
> 
> If you want HIDs you should get OEM kit from your car manufacturer so that everything is type tested. There is no 'proper kit' if you are just replacing the lamp. The legislation is there to stop 'both' of the people you describe. HIDs are unsuitable for fittings that previously had halogen lamps in them.
> 
> Or just stop being cheap and select it as an option when you get your car/choose a car with them fitted.


I'm sorry but ur last comment is crap. There are proper kits for reflector headlights the r kits. They have the exact beam pattern a standard lamp has. Hid kits make night driving safer the problem comes when either the wrong kit has been used or the headlights are not aligned. You can still be dazzled by a standard lamp if the alignment is out.


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

Smithey1981 said:


> I'm sorry but ur last comment is crap. There are proper kits for reflector headlights the r kits. They have the exact beam pattern a standard lamp has. Hid kits make night driving safer the problem comes when either the wrong kit has been used or the headlights are not aligned. You can still be dazzled by a standard lamp if the alignment is out.


Exactly, I have an 'R' kit fitted to my car and the beam pattern is perfect. I have the same car as Dannbodge (Corsa D) and the standard headlights are like candles in jam jars meaning that I ended driving with fogs on all the time just to see, the 4300k HID's on the other hand produce lots us useful light that is directed exactly where needed meaning I only need the fog lights in bad weather.


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## Dannbodge (Sep 26, 2010)

SteveyG said:


> But they aren't as normal as every high end car on the road. Sure, the beam pattern may look OK when static, but the beam height isn't being constantly changed as you drive over bumps in the road or over a hill. This is where most people are dazzled. I had to slow right down to almost a stop last night on the A15 because some prick had aftermarket HIDs and fog lights on. I couldn't see a bloody thing.


Even in high end cars, when you reach a crest of a hill or something they still take time to react and dip. Still dazzling you.
Surely the auto levelling doesn't actually change them that much, I would think it was for having weight in the rear and making them shine up.

As for washers, I am going to make a washer kit as you can get the GM bits for the Corsa as xenon headlights were an option on them.


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## Teddy (Dec 15, 2007)

I don't see the point in any of these lights, fine if you are the only road user but they are annoying to other drivers. 
On the motorway they are angled towards the kerb. If the car fitted with them is in the middle lane the lights are angled towards the car on the inside lane blinding that person.

The brightness also makes it harder to judge the speed of the car when looking in the mirror. You can focus easily on cars with normal lights, with xenon lights you can't look at them the same. So they are more dangerous for both road users.

Headlamps have a max wattage for a reason, bypassing this rule with these super bright bulbs is daft.


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

I once had a new Astra as a courtesy car which was fitted with the AFL lights and I'm sure they didn't dip when going up and down hills, the lights just auto-level when you first turn them on and vary then their range and the shape of the beam pattern depending on your speed.


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

Teddy said:


> I don't see the point in any of these lights, fine if you are the only road user but they are annoying to other drivers.
> On the motorway they are angled towards the kerb. If the car fitted with them is in the middle lane the lights are angled towards the car on the inside lane blinding that person.
> 
> The brightness also makes it harder to judge the speed of the car when looking in the mirror. You can focus easily on cars with normal lights, with xenon lights you can't look at them the same. So they are more dangerous for both road users.
> ...


Standard HID xenon lights are only 35w, standard halogen bulbs are 55w.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Laurie.J.M said:


> Standard HID xenon lights are only 35w, standard halogen bulbs are 55w.


Doesn't work like that though because the light output is about 300% more so the reflector can't cope properly with it, as another point too the H7R kits can creat a good beam pattern but the light is still disrupted and gets glare because the focal point of the light source is different to a halogen H7 lamp.


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## Mike k (Oct 14, 2011)

Im going to fit a hid kit to my bmw soon but wont be getting a cheap kit, ive seen a really good kit available, my car has projector lights, i have headlight washers and when i turn the ignition on they do the up and down self level motion. The kit im getting is a 6000k kit and is a white blue as per original xenon look, not a chavy bright blue like u see fitted on every other saxo or starlet turbo crap.


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## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

OEM xenons are more like 4300-4500K ish (poss up to 5000K), not 6000K. If you've got headlight washers and self levellers you might as well look for a proper set of xenon light units.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Laurie.J.M said:


> Exactly, I have an 'R' kit fitted to my car


Sorry to break it to you, but just because they've slapped an 'R' on the box doesn't make it type tested for your headlamps, nor suitable for on-road use. Nor is an 'R' type lamp mentioned anywhere in the exterior automotive lighting regulations.

Don't forget that HID lamps when hot have an internal pressure of around 35 atmospheres, and require a suitable type of enclosure that can contain the lamp, and also that the plastic parts of the headlamp should be able to withstand the UV from the lamp without degrading.

The arc is also only a couple of millimetres so is instantly going to modify the beam pattern.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

johnnyguitar said:


> It's interesting to note that the MOT manual says that cars with HIDs _may_ be fitted with washers and self levellers, but doesn't say they _must_ be fitted with either, only if they are they must work.


I think you're interpreting _conditional_ 'may' (also known as 'must') as 'might' by the way.

_Conditional _May...


> Vehicles fitted with HID headlamps are allowed to be fitted only with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self-levelling system.


Might...


> Vehicles fitted with HID headlamps might also be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self-levelling system.


Must...


> Vehicles fitted with HID headlamps must be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self-levelling system.


My understanding has always been that if you want to fit HIDs you MUST also have headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp levelling system.

Poor grammar if you ask me on the part of the overpaid EU beaurocrats who write the rules.


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

This is the beam pattern my car creates with an H7R kit, there's simply a piece of black plastic covering the part of the bulb that would otherwise create all the glare, this means the light is only directed into certain parts of the reflector and then onto the road ahead rather than scattered randomly, if I had used a standard H7 kit the whole front of the house would be illuminated.









'R' HID bulbs are used as standard fit in some cars, The 7th gen Civic, Nissan Navara/Pathfinder and some older Volvo and Mercedes models with xenon lights use a D2R bulb which is just the same as the H7R bulb as it has the glare shield covering up the part of the bulb that would create glare in the reflector headlight.

This is what an Anti Glare/R HID bulb looks like for those who have never seen one.


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## apmaman (Jun 8, 2010)

Fitted some to my vrs which has Projector style lights. It looks like my lights have been designed to take a bi-xenon kit as standard, but chosen not to for a cost measure. Which is a poor choice on Skoda's behalf but then I guess you'd have no reason to take the Polo Gti which has xenons as an option 

Anyway, fitting them provides identical beam patterns to my halogen lights but with brighter lights. 
Not been flashed at all, and I no longer see the need to manually adjust the bulb position whilst driving, keeping them on the lowest position is enough on unlit roads, and the full beam is amazing. This reduces the risk of "blinding" other drivers as I dont need to raise the beam up anymore. Hell I dont see the need to use full beam anymore now tbh! 

Although, not everyone takes consideration and is an ass hat so spoil it for everyone else. Such is life.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Laurie.J.M said:


> 'R' HID bulbs are used as standard fit in some cars, The 7th gen Civic, Nissan Navara/Pathfinder and some older Volvo and Mercedes models with xenon lights use a D2R bulb which is just the same as the H7R bulb as it has the glare shield covering up the part of the bulb that would create glare in the reflector headlight.


That's completely incorrect, the construction and use regs mean that the light unit you're talking about will have been designed for HID burners not just a converted halogen as you suggest, also a D2R isn't the same fiiting as a H7.


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