# Koch chemie FSE.. best uses?



## v_r_s (Nov 4, 2018)

Random one but recently realised I have a litre bottle of this stuff..I purchased it as I heard it was amazing at water spots. As I live in the worst area known to man for water quality. My idea was wash the car. Dry then apply FSE. 

However upon using it I found it was an LSP in itself.. it didn't make much sense to wash the car and dry then go over with FSE.

I seemed to prefer to run around whilst the car was damp and dry using BSD which would give week's worth of protection..

I did try using FSE on water spots but found it wasn't great. As the water spots left by my water are that bad I need to literally wash the car and dry straight away before they set.. not try fix once they are set.

So my question is when is FSe actually required and best used?


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## Radish293 (Mar 16, 2012)

Fse is one of my favourite products. It’s more a QD than anything else, adds a nice shine and removes insect residue and any other marking. Spray on leave to react for a a while than buff off. I also use it in our bathroom, brings the shower enclosure up a treat. 


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## Guest (May 8, 2020)

FSE is a great product. I'm not convinced it leaves much, if any protection, so I wouldn't think of it that way. What it does for hard water/lime scale though is really very good. My cars live outside, and are ceramic coated, and I found that water behaviour was diminished on the bonnet and roof after 6 months of continual rain and washing. Cleaning with strong Reset really didn't do a lot, but using use really brought it back to life and made it like new again , and also got rid of some water spotting on my glass which has Forte sealant on it.

Like Radish, I also use it on my shower glass which is plagued by limescale. Must be hard water here I suppose.

I've not used it much for cleaning, as I prefer ECH20 for that task, but it does break down bug guts, and works great for a quick clean. I also found that applying as a dying aid on a wet car also works for lime removal and water spots, so it need not go on dry and be buffed off every time.

It certainly has a place in my arsenal too, but is not something I reach for every time as a quick detailer/waterless wash, or even a drying aid. But will use occasionally to keep hard water at bey.


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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

I use it occasionally on door shuts - useful in the current warm weather where you've pressure washed the shuts and the residual water has dried before you revisit them.

Cheers,

Chris


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

As DannyRS3 says, its best use, or at least my favourite use for it, is as a qd on a coated car. When used for this purpose, it is a mild but very effective decontamination product. It may not need every wash, but if used reasonably often it keeps the paint glassy smooth, avoiding the need for claying and saving marring the coating. The fairly frequent mild decontamination also keeps the coating's properties and water behaviour in place for much much longer.

The question, which I haven't answered yet, is whether FSe negatively affects lesser protection products - I'm thinking about products that last 3 months or more. Less than that and there isn't really a need for such a product when a chemical cleaner will do a similar thing every 3 months. So far it seems that it doesn't do much, if any harm to Turtlewax Dry and Shine.

It doesn't add much to protection, but it does add a little. Much of what can be seen in terms of beading is from the underlying products, if any is there. I think it has 2 weeks maximum of protection by itself.


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## Guest (May 8, 2020)

I will say that before and after a plastic bag test on my paint the FSE leaves it much smoother, so it defiantly loosens or desolves light contamination very well. Worth trying this just for fun and interest! As Rosco has said it will help avoid the need to clay the car (as often).


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## Commander2874 (Sep 7, 2017)

Fse is a great product at a great price. I only use it in summer and primarily use it for door shuts and glass. 
I tend to use carpro spotless for waterspots and then fse if car is covered in them.

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## Smartin (Dec 31, 2018)

DannyRS3 said:


> I will say that before and after a plastic bag test on my paint the FSE leaves it much smoother, so it defiantly loosens or desolves light contamination very well. Worth trying this just for fun and interest! As Rosco has said it will help avoid the need to clay the car (as often).


I'd agree with this, too. Whenever I've washed and dried the car lately, the paint has felt a little rough when using the bag test. Soon as I run it over with FSE and do the bag test again, it's so much smoother.

Not sure whether it is simply dissolving/removing the mineral deposits still left from the rinse and drying of my hard water but whatever it is doing, it leaves it silky smooth and looks pretty shiny, too.

Whether other quick detailer would show the same effect I don't know as haven't got any others


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## v_r_s (Nov 4, 2018)

Smartin said:


> I'd agree with this, too. Whenever I've washed and dried the car lately, the paint has felt a little rough when using the bag test. Soon as I run it over with FSE and do the bag test again, it's so much smoother.
> 
> Not sure whether it is simply dissolving/removing the mineral deposits still left from the rinse and drying of my hard water but whatever it is doing, it leaves it silky smooth and looks pretty shiny, too.
> 
> Whether other quick detailer would show the same effect I don't know as haven't got any others


Thanks for that.

Sounds like a good use would be prior to waxing. As it will leave a better finish for the wax or sealant to adhere to


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## Hoppo32 (Nov 18, 2008)

I use it every time i wash the car as a glass cleaner, i always get waterspots on my glass and FSE removes them easily and leaves the glass spotless.


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## Smartin (Dec 31, 2018)

v_r_s said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> Sounds like a good use would be prior to waxing. As it will leave a better finish for the wax or sealant to adhere to


Just a note that the last time I used it just before applying a ceramic coat topper, the application ended up quite streaky. Don't know if that was the FSE interfering with the topper or if it was down to the freezing cold temperature/high wind conditions or substandard application process (used a microfibre pad rather than the recommended spray into microfibre cloth).

Haven't had the chance to try it again as, due to the restrictions, car is not being used that much, so not got dirty enough to warrant a wash!

Therefore, if applying just before waxing, maybe a quick IPA wipe before waxing would be best.


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## Itstony (Jan 19, 2018)

FSE is personally one of my favourite products, maybe even top one if asked and pushed.
For quite a few months I was only using FSE after weekly washing and drying on two older cars awaiting time to correct them. This gear imho is blinding.
It has more attention on being primarily a water spot remover, it's not it's a QD which has good ability to remove them, which it does well if they are not too severe.
The finish it leaves is very wet and slick finish which others may not like. Every time it rained the same thought I would have is, "The beader fans would love this". It's not so much for me.
I use it on full gloss black wheels with C5, barrels too, to wipe over with FSE weekly after wash and they look fantastic and easy to clean, as brushes of any type are a no,no. Bin there done that one:buffer:
Can't praise it enough and why I then bought 10ltr/Kg of it, as I feel its too expensive in small amounts.
If I had to have a clear out, this would be one of the last to go for sure.:thumb:


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Itstony said:


> FSE is personally one of my favourite products, maybe even top one if asked and pushed.
> For quite a few months I was only using FSE after weekly washing and drying on two older cars awaiting time to correct them. This gear imho is blinding.
> It has more attention on being primarily a water spot remover, it's not it's a QD which has good ability to remove them, which it does well if they are not too severe.
> The finish it leaves is very wet and slick finish which others may not like. Every time it rained the same thought I would have is, "The beader fans would love this". It's not so much for me.
> ...


Go on Tony you know you want to say it's 'the best' :thumb:


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## v_r_s (Nov 4, 2018)

Itstony said:


> FSE is personally one of my favourite products, maybe even top one if asked and pushed.
> For quite a few months I was only using FSE after weekly washing and drying on two older cars awaiting time to correct them. This gear imho is blinding.
> It has more attention on being primarily a water spot remover, it's not it's a QD which has good ability to remove them, which it does well if they are not too severe.
> The finish it leaves is very wet and slick finish which others may not like. Every time it rained the same thought I would have is, "The beader fans would love this". It's not so much for me.
> ...


Good write up.. so you rate it as an LSP then ?

Wash car dry car then go over with FSE instead of a product like BSD. Purely for the finishing abilities of FSE ?


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Itstony said:


> FSE is personally one of my favourite products, maybe even top one if asked and pushed.
> For quite a few months I was only using FSE after weekly washing and drying on two older cars awaiting time to correct them. This gear imho is blinding.
> It has more attention on being primarily a water spot remover, it's not it's a QD which has good ability to remove them, which it does well if they are not too severe.
> The finish it leaves is very wet and slick finish which others may not like. Every time it rained the same thought I would have is, "The beader fans would love this". It's not so much for me.
> ...


Sounds quite similar than Nanolex Final Finish. But FSE is even better for spotting?


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## broncoupe (Aug 19, 2010)

*Fse*

FSE wow-- had a bottle never used it after this post added it to my work chemicals for that just incase 
Well today was the day 
Had a call to clean a recently delivered Red exoctica
The Car Supplier said just give it a wash and tidy up 
Start the job get to the drying phase air blower and towel
What do i see clean paintwork covered with Calcium staining drying marks 
One irate phone call later Supplier admits to washing the car but not drying it
Open the bonnet plastic peppered with calcium spots
Used FSE sparingly with a microfibre under bonnet sorted that 
Then to the body FSE to every panel used a yellow sponge applicater to apply so not to over wet panel small sections at a time as quite warm temps
Wipe off with micofibre just great marks gone and definate gloss and slip added to panels
Some areas required a couple of gentle goes to clear marks and re drying
little bit of drying haze 
But FSE made easy work of it


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

v_r_s said:


> Good write up.. so you rate it as an LSP then ?
> 
> Wash car dry car then go over with FSE instead of a product like BSD. Purely for the finishing abilities of FSE ?


Personally, it works as a traditional QD in that it doesn't have very much protection of its own, but really works to boost and enhance the protection that is on the car and has a significant cleaning/mild decontaminating effect. So from my testing, if the paint is strongly protected with ceramic coating, the FSe will allow the coating to show off its best properties. F there is nothing on the paint then there will be an increase in the surface tension but this won't be very hydrophobic and won't last very long.

BSD adds a significant amount of protection on its own so is a completely different type of QD that can act as its own form of protection. I wouldn't use FSe by itself with nothing under it.BSD also changes the looks/water behaviour so it would hide/mask the existing properties of any products underneath it. So in the coating example, the BSD would impart its own hydrophobic and looks upon the coating for a decent amount of time. However, BSD cannot clean the car or deal with water spots in any way as well.


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## Guest (May 14, 2020)

I just tried FSE right after applying hydro2 and found it smeared and streaked a bit, which raises the question if it removes LSP due to its acidic nature? I do find it really brings back my Base ceramic coat water behaviour on the bonnet where it really gets fouled with fallout and hard water. It might be slightly detrimental to a topper though. Thoughts?


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## Itstony (Jan 19, 2018)

Blimey, that got some attention.^^^^^^:doublesho

FSE is not a panacea for QD's by any stretch, it is very good in my opinion.
OP asked for opinions on the product and uses, they are mine. I have bought some others raved about and and like us all, we can't buy them all then decide, only share what you know. It is a forum and place to ask and share right? Most seem happy with that. Enough said on that.
I use it a lot more than I expected and very happy with it and it's versatility. The others I have only get used at times just to finish them off, which is not often enough tbh. :thumb:


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## Radish293 (Mar 16, 2012)

IMHO I think Koch Chemie Fse is the best QD. Having a little bit of bite is a good thing. I’m a big fan of Koch Chemie products the combo of Pw, Nms and Fse produces stunning results. 
The difficulty with some products is that they don’t like each other. 
The products from the same brand will have been tested for compatibility. 
I have a similar problem with another brand of QD which is an utter pain. I’ve put it down to not liking what is on top of. Other users swear by it. 
For me it’s Koch Chemie for pretty much everything now. 


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## v_r_s (Nov 4, 2018)

So from what I can see people that rate FSE use it as follows?. 

Have a car with a sealant / wax / ceramic applied.
Wash the car - dry - then apply FSe which sounds like it brings the original lsp layer properties back ?.

I have a ceramic coated bonnet I'm going to give this a whirl with this technique.

Sounds like some good advice given and sounds like it's rated as bringing back an lsp properties. So not really much use for people without a wax layer etc. Similar to me currently washing and applying bsd every few weeks.


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## Guest (May 14, 2020)

v_r_s said:


> So from what I can see people that rate FSE use it as follows?.
> 
> Have a car with a sealant / wax / ceramic applied.
> Wash the car - dry - then apply FSe which sounds like it brings the original lsp layer properties back ?.
> ...


Aye, I'd say you have that right. I wouldn't treat it in the same category as say BSD or Reload, or apply to over top of them unless you are have water spots you wish to eliminate. I feel it is best used when there is spotting, on glass regularly, or when the base ceramic needs a bit of a decontamination, especially those of us in hard water areas. For me, I think I'll use it only when my bonnet starts sheeting instead of beading, as that has really helped in my case. It could likely be used instead of a topper regularly as it does add some gloss as well as decontamination, but I personally prefer adding a layer of something that lasts a few weeks and helps preserve the ceramic under it.

I also won't be using FSE over a topper or hydro2 again, and wouldn't recommend it over wax as I do think it can degrade it given how acidic it is.


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## mikey330i (Apr 14, 2013)

Has anyone used this when trying to remove waterspots on Gtechniq Exo, specifically V4? Would like to hear if it affected it negatively at all, as I’ve heard some worrying results when using Gtechniq’s own W9 stripping the Exo off.


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## Itstony (Jan 19, 2018)

My best car had ceramic coating from new. I would wax it every now and again cos I could. I love waxing a car. There are people that diss it, but better come up with something to back it up as far as I think.
As it doesn't get used as much as it really should, I QD at least once a week, even more for the hell of it with FSE. May go a long time without waxing, but not stop QD'ing it after every decon and wash it gets whether it likes/needs it or not which keeps the calcium free to boot. Especially as I wrote before, having the black gloss wheels they show everything. 
Be sceptical of wanting to use too many products believing you are gaining more with each one. Just saying :thumb:


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## Dave50 (Mar 14, 2013)

Well impressed with FSE, tried it a couple of weeks ago and didn't get on with it. I was doing a test on my bonnet with Kamikaze Overcoat on one side and Fse on the other. FSE was just so much slicker, I did the whole car with it.

[URL=https://postimg.cc/3djMhbwR]
[URL=https://postimg.cc/nCf86tpg]

Dave


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Radish293 said:


> IMHO I think Koch Chemie Fse is the best QD. Having a little bit of bite is a good thing.
> For me it's Koch Chemie for pretty much everything now.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Have you tried Nanolex Final Finish? I really like it. Should I try FSE?


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## Radish293 (Mar 16, 2012)

sm81 said:


> Have you tried Nanolex Final Finish? I really like it. Should I try FSE?


No I haven't, I've tried lots of things and IMO Koch Chemie Fse is top of the list.

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## Commander2874 (Sep 7, 2017)

Fse is brilliant! No streaking and amazing shine. And great value for money. 

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## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

this thread is originally from May, does anyone have anything else to add to this as I keep seeing this spray mentioned

Seems like people are using it as a coating maintenance product, maybe use every few months to give things a light decon ?

Any known effects on any products being diminished etc ?

Is Carpro Spotless a similar product ?

Thanks


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## Radish293 (Mar 16, 2012)

BRUN said:


> this thread is originally from May, does anyone have anything else to add to this as I keep seeing this spray mentioned
> 
> Seems like people are using it as a coating maintenance product, maybe use every few months to give things a light decon ?
> 
> ...


I've been using it for a while now and love the stuff. Great around the house too great on chrome taps.


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## macmaw (Mar 5, 2007)

Can this be used as a drying aid or just applied to already dried cars?


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

It's fine as a drying aid, not the best & not the worst. That's not how it's best used IMO.

It's big benefit is the ability to mildly decontaminate the paint from limescale residue not just water spots and leave a really nice feel behind. It's most powerful and leaves the best finish when applied to dry cool paint.

Personally I prefer not to use it regularly as it has been shown to degrade select coatings with repeat use, plus I don't like products that leave some form of temporary protection behind. Without exception the only LSP top ups my car gets is following a full road film/iron/tar decon (normally quarterly) - topping a car each wash with anything but a low durability QD multiplies the hits of chemicals required to remove the decontamination that spoils the gloss. It'll take Korrosol multiple hits to break down something like Gyeon Wetcoat... so if you're using something like that every other week, good luck getting rid of the road film, Iron, Tar caked under layer upon layer of Wetcoat unless you're mechanically removing it. With a coating beneath you can't even mechanically remove the lot - you're unlikely to use clay, you're definitely not going to polish the car so this principle becomes even more crucial.

Along with road film, iron and tar... limescale is another element that is important to free the paint of as it can hugely mask coating hydrophobics and companies have really switched on to this recently.. Labocosmetica may have started the trend, Gyeon's RestartWash being the latest. While FSe excels at removing the visible and invisible limescale deposits, it does leave something behind. And this stops me from using it as part of a pre-protection decon (applying durable protection to FSe (like any QD) is not wise). I've since found Labocosmetica Purifica which performs a similar role of removing limescale deposits and frees up coatings, but leaves nothing behind which fills this function perfectly. 

FSe is a great product, it introduced me to the benefits of using a limescale remover as distinct from a localised water spot remover. It doesn't fit my routine any more but will always have some to hand for the odd water spot or family cars which aren't dried as thoroughly as my own!


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## Itstony (Jan 19, 2018)

*atbalfour*
This topic never dies, because it has to be killed in so many ways. It'd hard to think of many (if any) that are one dimensional, FSE isn't as you explained.
Think we have had different perspectives and opinions on FSE, but not radically.
I hope it does not offend to state you are much more on a continual quest for the alexia of sealant, so the QD option is probably not an important product to you.
For those that like to keep a car nice, limited time and then add crap weather, different products come into play. FSE does that as you, Raddish and I have contributed quite a bit.
Would not use it as a drying aid myself, not a fan of that task in a warm climate.
It has taken the "water spot removal product", when that is only its added capability as a QD.
So for those that cannot get the time to spend or want to spend on their car, or cars, this I then feel is a must have with what it offers.

It is exceptionally good to have for the wheels. I like to keep those clean and sealed with C5, but will not use a brush on them, no need to as they are kept well. I do use a wheel woolie with MF wrapped round and after shampoo, rinse and dry, I spray Mf with FSE and QD them and that is the best routine I found and use. No marring, which would show on the set of Gloss Black wheels and barrels, red callipers. Slicker than Owls shugar
I will use fallout once a year, but almost waste of time. That alone warrants having FSE. Maintaining always easier than repair. :thumb:


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## JB052 (Mar 22, 2008)

I find its excellent for cleaning the bath and wash basin as well


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## Itstony (Jan 19, 2018)

^^^^^^ bathroom (and any) glass too.:thumb:


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Itstony said:


> *atbalfour*
> This topic never dies, because it has to be killed in so many ways. It'd hard to think of many (if any) that are one dimensional, FSE isn't as you explained.
> Think we have had different perspectives and opinions on FSE, but not radically.
> I hope it does not offend to state you are much more on a continual quest for the alexia of sealant, so the QD option is probably not an important product to you.
> ...


Agree totally Tony and I think we both acknowledge how good a product this is, we just use it in different ways.. as you mention I am not a QD guy but if I was, and I didn't have a ceramic coating I would absolutely use this as my QD of choice as it leaves an unrivalled smooth finish (side benefit is that it removes mild contamination & limescale).

Interestingly my testing has shown that it does not significantly 'mask' the beading properties of the underlying product. It's not a great beader on it's own, some will want their QD to provide that and this won't when used to bare paint, but it does allow the underlying LSP to 'shine through'.. for example on top of Gyeon Cancoat I still got the nutty beading immediately after use.


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## Clean-my-sxi (Feb 5, 2008)

I got some fse to try for christmas, currrently using bsd. Also santa gave me some tac system shinee, which i think is a kind of qd/wax


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