# Best Wax or Sealant For Daytona Grey



## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

Hello,

After giving my car (Audi -Daytona Grey) some PB Black hole and R222 wax at the weekend i feel it could of come up a bit better then it has. 

I have a feeling that the R222 has muted the flakes in the Daytona grey a bit! So im after more "flake popping" if possible when i come to polish/glaze, wax or seal again.

Been searching the forum for ages but cant really get a good idea of what is needed if i'm honest.

DJ Purple Haze & DJ Supernatural Hybrid comes up a lot though :/ . Would i need a polish/glaze other then Black hole before these?!

Any other advise would be great! If it helps i will apply by hand.

Thank you

Phil


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## bero1306 (Jan 24, 2011)

Best "Flake Popping" ive used is Blackfire AFPP.


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

Thank you for the reply.

So i am guessing to get some good fake popping action the following would be good after the wash and drying of the car?

Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish, 
Blackfire All Finish Paint Protection. 

Then top up with Blackfire Deep Gloss Spray Sealant after every wash.

Any other suggestions?

Thank you

Phil


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Anything Zaino tbh, I've never seen anything better on Daytona grey (although I'm yet to see Polish Angel on that colour, which I reckon would be immense).


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## johanr77 (Aug 4, 2011)

I've got a carbon grey golf, fairly similar colour to daytona grey if a little darker. I mainly use werkstat acrylic on it, fairly brings out the flake in the paint.


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

Alex L said:


> Anything Zaino tbh, I've never seen anything better on Daytona grey (although I'm yet to see Polish Angel on that colour, which I reckon would be immense).


Do you know which Zaino products were used? cleaner/polish then seal?

Thank you

Phil


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Polishing's the key before any lsp. 
It's all in the prep


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

philnotts1983 said:


> Do you know which Zaino products were used? cleaner/polish then seal?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Phil


Yep, polish, then either IPA wipe down and layers of Z5 or polish, then ZAIO to prep and then layers of Z5.

Then Z6 as a QD between washes and for special occasions Z8 to add insane gloss and flake pop.



DJ X-Ray said:


> Polishing's the key before any lsp.
> It's all in the prep


That's not what he asked, it gets boring when people spam the WAX section with this :thumb:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Alex L said:


> Yep, polish, then either IPA wipe down and layers of Z5 or polish, then ZAIO to prep and then layers of Z5.
> 
> Then Z6 as a QD between washes and for special occasions Z8 to add insane gloss and flake pop.
> 
> That's not what he asked, it gets boring when people spam the WAX section with this :thumb:


Easy tiger


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

Thank you again for the help.

Just been reading about the Zaino range and it does look very good but seems a bigger process to get the results then the Blackfire 3 step process would?!. Maybe i am being lazy 

Phil


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

I take it you don't like the bright reflective look of the Black Hole and R222?

I got HD NitroSeal on my grey Honda (very similar to Daytona Grey), very impressed with this! Top ups with Zaino Z8 as well, love this stuff!  

The NitroSeal is a 2-part wax/sealant coating that lasts 1 year plus. It gives a darkening very glossy look, very impressive.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

philnotts1983 said:


> Thank you again for the help.
> 
> Just been reading about the Zaino range and it does look very good but seems a bigger process to get the results then the Blackfire 3 step process would?!. Maybe i am being lazy
> 
> Phil


you don't have to do the whole system. Just use The Z5, and top up with Z6 or Z8 after you wash. The Z7 shampoo is a very good shampoo too.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Here's my Honda wearing ArtDeShine Nano Gloss Paint Sealant before I went to the HD NitroSeal. Cracking stuff this one, and cheap too! :thumb:

View attachment 27146


View attachment 27145


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## sprocketser (Aug 4, 2012)

-Raven- said:


> Here's my Honda wearing ArtDeShine Nano Gloss Paint Sealant before I went to the HD NitroSeal. Cracking stuff this one, and cheap too! :thumb:
> 
> View attachment 27146
> 
> ...


Nice finish mate !


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Alex L said:


> That's not what he asked, it gets boring when people spam the WAX section with this :thumb:


Just about as boring as people putting up pictures of a machine polished car, and saying look how good the LSP looks though... 

Can help but think they are misleading the people asking the question... Jeez, there is even 1 poster that insists on posting their LSP pictures of a car that has been wetsanded and polished... that is really unfair (IMO)

:thumb:


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

-Raven- said:


> I take it you don't like the bright reflective look of the Black Hole and R222?


It came out well with the reflection (see attached) but i just think the flakes were muted. Maybe its just me though haha! I am doing this by hand so i may not be able to gain better results.

I guess with the Zaino range i could go with;

Z-PC to prep
Z5 polish
Z8 to seal and protect.

And hopefully this would give me the flake popping im after 

Phil


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## Blackroc (Dec 10, 2012)

Tough Prep / Tough Coat on BMW Mineral Grey:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

philnotts1983 said:


> It came out well with the reflection (see attached) but i just think the flakes were muted. Maybe its just me though haha! I am doing this by hand so i may not be able to gain better results.
> 
> I guess with the Zaino range i could go with;
> 
> ...


Very nice Audi Phil! 

Yes, the Zaino will give you a much clearer look, not so silvery reflective. :thumb:

Z5 is a sealant too, despite the name. It will do the protecting out of what you've mentioned. The Z8 is great for final bling and freshening up after a wash.


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

-Raven- said:


> Very nice Audi Phil!
> 
> Yes, the Zaino will give you a much clearer look, not so silvery reflective. :thumb:
> 
> Z5 is a sealant too, despite the name. It will do the protecting out of what you've mentioned. The Z8 is great for final bling and freshening up after a wash.


Thank you!

I "think" i am going to go down the Zaino route of

Z-AIO prep
Z5 polish/seal
Z8 final finish! Then Z8 to top up!

Phil


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

Just taken these snaps of the daytona grey. Maybe i am being a bit hard on the PB BH and R222 combo!?

Taken on a iphone.

Phil


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## sprocketser (Aug 4, 2012)

I don t know if it s my laptop , but I don t see much shine in there buddy .


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

philnotts1983 said:


> Just taken these snaps of the daytona grey. Maybe i am being a bit hard on the PB BH and R222 combo!?
> 
> Taken on a iphone.
> 
> Phil


As you say you're polishing by hand, which is fine but my advice would be to get yourself a machine polisher, that's when you'll start to see major improvements in flake and gloss levels.. Trust me


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

DJ X-Ray said:


> As you say you're polishing by hand, which is fine but my advice would be to get yourself a machine polisher, that's when you'll start to see major improvements in flake and gloss levels.. Trust me


Yes i know but not sure. I may give the zaino products a bash at the weekend and use some Farecla G3 Professional Bodywork Detox Car Shampoo to remove what i have done so far.

Phil


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

I was always happy with Zaino on my Daytona Grey.


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## derbigofast (Dec 6, 2011)

ive always said it and always will its all in the prep.wax or sealant keeps a Finnish doesn't create it


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## sprocketser (Aug 4, 2012)

Great job Blackroc !


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## hedwig (May 22, 2011)

*Werkstat*

Werkstat Acrylic Prime, Jett Trigger and Glos gives incredible flake pop. I've been very impressed with the system on my Dark Silver MINI. Very easy to use too, and it layers really well.


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

lofty said:


> I was always happy with Zaino on my Daytona Grey.


Looking very good. What Zaino products and process was used to get this effect?

Phil


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

I used the Zaino kit which includes Z5 pro from Clean your Car.The paintwork had been previously machine polished so was in good condition.


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## dubber (Oct 2, 2011)

Another fan here for zaino. :thumb:


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

lofty said:


> I used the Zaino kit which includes Z5 pro from Clean your Car.The paintwork had been previously machine polished so was in good condition.


Thank you for the reply.

Did you use layers, or was this just 1 coat of Z5?

Phil


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

The Cueball said:


> Just about as boring as people putting up pictures of a machine polished car, and saying look how good the LSP looks though...
> 
> Can help but think they are misleading the people asking the question... Jeez, there is even 1 poster that insists on posting their LSP pictures of a car that has been wetsanded and polished... that is really unfair (IMO)
> 
> :thumb:


If you take peoples photos as fact then theres no hope, everyone ( I presume) on here knows how easy it is to make even a dirty car look awesome in photos and if you take pictures of black cars in the evening sun they look fapping fantastic, regardless of whats done to it.

That's why most of the time I recommend products on my experience with them and how they added/changed the finish for me.

And as I've done a few Daytona grey Audis both full polish and Zaino and just a wash and coat of Z8 with no clay or polish I feel imho that using those products on that colour work awesomely regardless of polish or not.

I just get bored of the same old BS about waxes not adding anything, when it has been proven several times they do.
And people come into the wax section just to post 'it's all in the prep' when most people posting questions are asking about wax/coatings whatever you want to call them and if they wanted to know about polishing/prep they'd ask in the relevant section.



derbigofast said:


> ive always said it and always will its all in the prep.wax or sealant keeps a Finnish doesn't create it


And you sir know absolutely nothing :thumb:

You see Cueball, this is what I'm talking about. Adds absolutely nothing to the thread yet people feel the need post because a certain member bleats on about waxes adding nothing but the tinyest (sp) nuance that no-one can see 



philnotts1983 said:


> Thank you for the reply.
> 
> Did you use layers, or was this just 1 coat of Z5?
> 
> Phil


You can go as crazy as you want, but me personally I would do 2-3 coatings to get maximum coverage, then weekly wipe downs with Z6 after a wash and monthly goes with Z8 to add to the finish.

Marc @ Heavenly detail did something like 51/52 coats on his VXR iirc :thumb:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Alex L said:


> If you take peoples photos as fact then theres no hope, everyone ( I presume) on here knows how easy it is to make even a dirty car look awesome in photos and if you take pictures of black cars in the evening sun they look fapping fantastic, regardless of whats done to it.
> 
> That's why most of the time I recommend products on my experience with them and how they added/changed the finish for me.
> 
> ...


Get over yourself, if you read the op's post he said any OTHER advise would be welcome. So that's what i gave him. If you had any experience, which you clearly haven't you'd have told him it doesn't matter what colour his paintwork is, instead of trolling a thread, where people are expressing their opinions


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

Alex L said:


> You can go as crazy as you want, but me personally I would do 2-3 coatings to get maximum coverage, then weekly wipe downs with Z6 after a wash and monthly goes with Z8 to add to the finish.
> 
> Marc @ Heavenly detail did something like 51/52 coats on his VXR iirc :thumb:


Hello Alex,

Thank you for the reply.

Was you using Z5 for the coats? I am guessing you applied, let to set for a bit then buffed off. Then applied another coat and so on? or was you using Z6 inbetween?

To be honest i was going to use Z8 after my weekly washes. Is this over kill?

Thank you

Phil

PS. I did ask for other options but i think i am going down the Zaino route. But all the help has been appreciated!


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

DJ X-Ray said:


> Get over yourself, if you read the op's post he said any OTHER advise would be welcome. So that's what i gave him. *If you had any experience, which you clearly haven't you'd have told him it doesn't matter what colour his paintwork is *


:lol: :lol: :lol:

OK, please enlighten me as to why colour doesn't matter?

As I'd recommend different stuff for different colours.

when it comes to polishing though I'd recommend products on my experience of different paint types over colour, so I do agree when it comes to polishing paint colour doesn't matter.



DJ X-Ray said:


> instead of trolling a thread, where people are expressing their opinions


So being the first to recommend a specific brand, then having a few other people recommend the same thing is trolling 

If you don't like I'd be more than happy for you to use the report button :thumb:

Only trolling I can see is me constantly recommending Zaino, Polish Angel and Angel wax products


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

philnotts1983 said:


> Hello Alex,
> 
> Thank you for the reply.
> 
> ...


Hi Phil, sorry for the side track 

I used to use Z5 mixed with the ZFX to allow for continued layering, otherwise it's recommend to leave 24 hours between coats.

with the ZFX'd Z5 you can layer straight after each other :thumb:

I would do one layer over the whole car, leave for between 20-40 minutes to fully cure (check with the swipe test), then buff off, go over the car with Z6 to clean any dust off and then add another coat of Z5 and repeat for as many times as you like. But 2 or 3 is more than enough.

You can use Z8 after each wash, but tbh I used to save it for once a Fortnight/month or special occasions. I've easily got 4-6 weeks of beading from Z8 alone.

But I don't know if its still the same but we used to add a spritz of Z8 after the final coat of Z5 just because that was what was recommended back in the days when Zaino first came to the UK and Brazo and Neil_S were the first to use it :thumb:

If you get stuck on application I'm almost 100% certain Johnnyopolis has some 'how to' videos posted in his Zaino section :thumb:


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

Thank you again for the advise.

The only issue i have is that my only option for cleaning the car at the moment is on the driveway ( no garage etc). Also i cant leave the car for 24hrs before using it ..

This is what worries me about going the Zaino route. I am guessing layering 1 coat after the other in quite short amount of time will probably do nothing?

I will check out the vids.

Thank you

Phil


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

philnotts1983 said:


> Thank you again for the advise.
> 
> The only issue i have is that my only option for cleaning the car at the moment is on the driveway ( no garage etc). Also i cant leave the car for 24hrs before using it ..
> 
> ...


No problems, always happy to help 

Oops, I've been saying Z5 but I should have been saying Z2, my mistake. the pink one is the one you want 

You can do one layer at a time over a few weeks, for example do one this weekend, next week wash, a quick spritz of Z6 and do another layer and so on.

As long as it's not too windy doing it on the drive will be fine, I've done it many a time like that with no problems :thumb:


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

even ZAIO on it's own, I've gotten 6 months protection out of and is an great base layer for the rest of the Zaino range

I tell you what PM me your address and you can have my half a bottle of ZAIO free if I can find it :thumb:


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

Alex L said:


> even ZAIO on it's own, I've gotten 6 months protection out of and is an great base layer for the rest of the Zaino range
> 
> I tell you what PM me your address and you can have my half a bottle of ZAIO free if I can find it :thumb:


Cheers for the offer, but i have ZAIO already on order 

My process this weekend will be:

Zaino Z-AIO All In One ( to prep)
Zaino Z2 or Z5 Pro Show Car Polish ( to polish - leave 10-15mins)
Zaino Z8 Grand Finale Spray Seal ( To seal )

Silly questions time.

Why would you use Z6 before Z2 OR Z5 when i come to my next wash / layering?

Shouldnt it be wash, apply Z2 or Z5 then seal with Z6 or Z8 again?

Thank you

Phil.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

philnotts1983 said:


> Cheers for the offer, but i have ZAIO already on order
> 
> My process this weekend will be:
> 
> ...


That looks good to me :thumb:

I'd use Z6 before incase theres any greasy finger marks after the wash or to remove anything the wash may have missed :thumb:

Definetly go with Z2, as from memory and without checking Z2 is more for metallic/clearcoated paints and Z5 is more for Solid/singlestage paints.

I may be talking out of my bottom but that's how I remember it :lol:


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

And with Johnnys awesome delivery times, you'll be all set for this weekend.

Just a shame you cant order a sunny, calm day from him too :lol:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

I still think Z5 better than Z2!


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

I am guessing though for this weekends process i wont need Z6, as i will be using Z-AIO then Z2/Z6 and finish with Z8.

But fast forward 2 weeks, it will be

Wash
Z6
Z2/Z5
Z8 

Fast forward 3 weeks, it will be

Wash
Z6
Z2/Z5
Z8 

A lot of Z action going off here!! 

Phil


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Looks good to me Phil :thumb: :thumb:



-Raven- said:


> I still think Z5 better than Z2!


I don't think I've actually used Z5 so wouldn't be able to compare.

It's been so long since I've used Zaino lol


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

philnotts1983 said:


> I am guessing though for this weekends process i wont need Z6, as i will be using Z-AIO then Z2/Z6 and finish with Z8


actually, I don't think you'd need Z6 there, just go straight to Z8 afterwards :thumb:


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

Sorry i ment Z2 or Z5 there. 

Everything ordered now. Weather Saturday morning is total sunshine, so 8am start to try and dodge the midday sun!

Phil


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

philnotts1983 said:


> Sorry i ment Z2 or Z5 there.
> 
> Everything ordered now. Weather Saturday morning is total sunshine, so 8am start to try and dodge the midday sun!
> 
> Phil


Nice one :thumb:

I look forward to hearing how you get on


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

Alex L said:


> Nice one :thumb:
> 
> I look forward to hearing how you get on


Ok, slight change of plan. I now have the Zaino ZFX kit.

So my process tomorrow will be

-Wash
-ZIO prep
-Z6 - wipe down
-ZFX mix with Z5
-Apply 2/3 layers of the mix, with Z6 wipe down in between
-Finish with Z8

Questions:

1. I am guessing i fill half a bottle of Z5 into the ZFX bottle and add 5 drops. This should get me 2/3 coats onto the car?

2. How long should i be leaving the mix on the car before i buff and apply the Z6 in between layers? Temp will be warm tomorrow late afternoon but the car will be 80% in shade.

Thank you

Phil


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

That looks about right, maybe do 1/4 of the container with Z5 and a couple of drops of ZFX (this is all from an old memory so maybe slightly out).

You really do use the absolute minimum and get the layer incredibly thin.

How long you leave it to cure depends on the weather, normally 20-40 minutes. just wipe your finger through it and if it comes off clear it's ready to buff off :thumb:


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

This is worth a look if you haven't already seen it http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=30674&highlight=zaino


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

Alex L said:


> This is worth a look if you haven't already seen it http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=30674&highlight=zaino


Thats a good read but ( unless i have missed it) doesn't state how much ZFX to mix to get 2/3 coats.

Phil


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

philnotts1983 said:


> Thats a good read but ( unless i have missed it) doesn't state how much ZFX to mix to get 2/3 coats.
> 
> Phil


Ahh, definetly ask in the Zaino section as I'm getting old and forgetful now :lol:

Johnny will know the answer :thumb:


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

So i finally got around to using the Zaino products.

If i am honest i found them hard to apply and buff. Maybe this was me, not sure.

However i only got 2x coats (ZFX mix) onto the paint work. Is it worth putting another layer of Z5 onto the car? Or just carry on with Z6/Z8 now when i next wash the car?

I did get a lot more flake pop though!

Thank you
Phil


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

That would be because you applied it too thick or didn't leave it long enough, I should have mentioned how thinly Zaino spreads.

You can do as many coats as you want, another one won't hurt, but from here on just Z6/Z8 should be fine :thumb:

And the smell of Z8 :argie:


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## philnotts1983 (Jun 1, 2013)

I was trying my best not to put to much on, it looked like i was hardly putting anything on the pad! I left the layer on for 30mins at least before buffing!

Would putting another coat of Z5 on even do anything now its been a week on though?

Z8 is good!

Phil


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

You can put another coat of Z5 on if you wish, and you don't have to use the ZFX every time either. 

I find about 2 or 3 coats of any LSP about the optimum, but you can go as crazy with the layers as you like! 

Got to love the Z8! I like to use it on my sealants after every wash for extra bling!


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