# Horse power, do we really need more?



## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

With modern hot hatches and coupes getting ever more power, Focus RS 345 BHP, Audi RS3 365 BHP, A45 AMG 379 BHP, M2 365 BHP and not to mention the tuning companies out there that will have a field day making these cars even more faster. I ask you, would you really need more power on these cars? Especially if you own one, is it fast enough for your needs or do you think these manufactures should make future performance cars even more powerful? It's over to you.


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

Its the price increases I'm not keen on. Hey if I could get a 200 bhp hatch or a 300 bhp hatch for the same price, and otherwise the same car, im sure that probably the majority would choose the latter. Its the price increases I thinks the problem, making modern hot hatches out of reach for many. In 2002 a ctr was about 16 to 17k. Now they are about 30k. Although there is something to be said for lesser powered cars where the challenge is to maintain speed


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

It's becoming more and more a willy waving exercise for the manufacturers and buyers. 
Is 200 Bhp enough? I would say more than enough.
Is 125 mph / 200 kmh fast enough? I would like to think so.
Is 0- 60 under 10 seconds quick enough? I am sure it is.

Where would you use all the power for if you not use it on the track or on the Autobahn? 
Many cars nowadays go from 0 to 12 points in under 10 seconds.

I would more enjoy to see cars that are lighter, nicer to drive, better road holding etc. 
Mazda MX5 is a good example, that you can have a lot of fun, with moderate power.
Light, fast enough, and can be thrown around, and enough power to fly around the country back roads without breaking the bank. 

There was a time, only 35 years ago, that 100bhp was a hell lot of power for an sportive family saloon (Opel Ascona 2.0S) 
Currently you can buy a little city car with more than 100bhp, does it make sense, not in my book.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

I have 266bhp apparently. Do i need it all? Nope. Why did i buy the car? Because i wanted it. Will i use all of the performance? Probably not but it gives me the oomph to overtake quickly and get back in again.


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## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

Hearing of more and more people suffering with issues like DMF breaking, clutches knackering etc in dirty diesels. Seems to me even pretty mundane, every day cars simply can't handle the power. Undoubtedly due in part to how people drive but too many to be coincidence IMO.


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

What am I reading here?

'A' cup boobs will do but DD is better!

More power dammit! Is this a motoring based forum or not?

Powerrrrrrrrrrr!


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

If we all got what 'will do' we'd all be in Dacia's!


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

Caledoniandream said:


> It's becoming more and more a willy waving exercise for the manufacturers and buyers.
> Is 200 Bhp enough? I would say more than enough.
> Is 125 mph / 200 kmh fast enough? I would like to think so.
> Is 0- 60 under 10 seconds quick enough? I am sure it is.
> ...


 This is all true, but cars were both smaller and lighter back then.

Air bags, impact bars and noise reduction padding take away interior room, so the car has to grow, which also makes it heavier, so it now needs more power.

I also remember when 100bhp was a lot and 150bhp was fairly serious power. I also remember that the cars back then were a heck of a lot noisier inside and would just crumple if they hit anything.

Also manual chokes, optional radios, doors seals freezing in winter, non existant heating etc,etc,etc .... try telling that to the kids today and they just wont believe you ... LOL


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

There is a point in my book where it gets too much. Our Volvo has 205bhp and 450nm torque but it's a heavy 4 wheel drive estate. It's enough and it's quick for it's size, you don't need any more power really IMO. That's borne out when you see the amount of 220bhp Golf GTi's they sell compared to 280bhp Leon's and 320bhp M135i's. Clearly 200 odd bhp is around enough.

The Porsche has 184bhp which is a hell of a lot when the car weighs just over a ton and has no driving aids at all! I had a car with 451bhp and it didn't need that amount of power, it helped the car accelerate from 70-130 mph in seconds though but if the car was a little lighter than the 2.2 tons it was it would be better still. I'd imagine 379bhp in a family sized hatch is immense! I'd try one were it not for the fact I don't need one and we have the Volvo which we both like.


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## Turkleton (Apr 18, 2010)

It's more the fact the power has to go up to give a decent improvement in performance as cars are getting so lardy and big these days.

In most of the current new hot hatches I feel so remote and uninvolved that the only thing that gets my pulse going is the silly acceleration, but beyond that you're in a numb feeling car that's forgotten what the whole point of hot hatches is.

240bhp in a car a little over a ton gives great thrills, especially when it's focused on handling and getting the most from it.
The hatches with 300bhp are getting on 1.5 tons which when you look at bhp/ton is only just in line with what older stuff was offering.


Less weight please, more power and more weight doesn't mean better


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

There's nothing worse than someone with a powerful performance car that clearly has no idea how to drive.

You can't drive a performance car anywhere near it's potential on the road. Although the internet is awash of stories of young lads in their hot hatches thrashing every supercar that ever existed.

Bragging rights sell car. If you've got the fastest 0-60mph, that'll sell cars. If the paid journalists say a car is great, people will run out to buy it. 

They have no idea how to drive it, never take it anywhere near a track and drive nowhere near the limits of the car, yet they'll sense everything that the magazine told them..

It's all hype and willy waving for something most people don't even understand.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

I was having this debate just the other week. I've moved recently moved to a S5 with a supercharged 3.0 V6. Puts out 330BHP and does 60 in just under 5 seconds...

To be honest, while the acceleration (particularly with quattro and the supercharger) is massively good fun when taking off at junctions down a dual carriageway, you are up to silly speeds in no time and have to ease off very quickly. Then there is the fact that you can only really do this out of rush hour and on the odd occasion. For everyday driving, its a bit daft as you never get to use the thing either due to traffic or being paranoid that the car behind is a unmarked police unit....Does make you wonder, if you don't track the thing is there any point of the additional price and running costs in everyday driving?

Having said all that...I know if I were to be sensible and go back to a cheaper and more economical car, I would miss the massive smile I get on my face for the 1% of the time I can nail it from the lights...


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Turkleton said:


> It's more the fact the power has to go up to give a decent improvement in performance as cars are getting so lardy and big these days.
> 
> In most of the current new hot hatches I feel so remote and uninvolved that the only thing that gets my pulse going is the silly acceleration, but beyond that you're in a numb feeling car that's forgotten what the whole point of hot hatches is.
> 
> ...


At what point do you think cars are going to get lighter?

It's more and more gadgets these days that count, so you can tweet whilst you're sort of driving.

It's never a case of need is it? If it was just need people would just be driving prius's.


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## Strothow (Oct 29, 2009)

Yes


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## Ecce (Mar 29, 2011)

My 80bhp car went to Brabus to become 101bhp then to an Engineer guy I know that tuned it up to 125bhp (was told it would be 130-135 but the rolling road suggests otherwise).

Do I drive it fast? - NO

Do I have any points? - Not any more

Do I have fun? - More fun in the 800kg car than any other (more powerful) car I have ever owned.

Can I keep up with a hot hatch on a motorway or at lights etc? - nope but that's no fun, get me on winding road and there are very few cars out there that would lose me (or keep up with me).

Now, that's SMART


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

ardandy said:


> What am I reading here?
> 
> 'A' cup boobs will do but DD is better!
> 
> ...


I think the point is that the majority of people would take C cups over DD's though.

Cars are getting more and more powerful and prices consequently going up into stupid figures, not taking into account inflation.

My car "only" has 300hp but it weighs 2 tonnes. Is the power enough, heck yes, I spend most of my time in traffic and in front of red lights anyway!

But Kerr is right on the "bragging rights" comment. Jeremy Clarkson dissed the RC-F when it came out, made it to look EXTREMELY bad and it dented sales quite a lot. The talk in the sales room was "oh but the M4 is faster" before they even drove the thing. Then, the GS-F comes out now and the decent reviews by journalists means its actually selling OK for what it is! Whats the difference between the two? One has 2 more doors and an extra seat but costs £10k more and is actually slower!!


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## Guest (May 3, 2016)

What do we mean by too much power? What are we trying to quantify as being too much and why is it too much? Ease of access? Rate of acceleration? Top speed? Fuel consumption? Something else?


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I don't ever remember when there was actually so much choice of performance cars. 

With the creation of PCP finance and cheap leases it has now brought powerful cars to far more people. It's no longer that unusual to have a £30,000 300+bhp car. A £30,000 car no longer stands out as unusual or special. They are all very common now.

I can't help but feel this has helped fuel people's need to have something a bit more than the rest. Look how many people now run out and place deposits on cars that will probably never exist. They are far too desperate to get one up on other people. 

Then the other issue we now have on the road is all these dashcam warriors. 

You know fine well that if you do have a little spirited drive that you're highly likely to be filmed and have the video added to YouTube or sent to the police.


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Is it any different to someone buying a 4x4 yet never 'needs' the extra 2 wheel drive?

There money, there choice, nothing else matters.

In my experience (and I admit this probably applies to me) people who complain about other peoples car choices are 'I know about cars so therefore more than you' snobs or 'I know better because it's my hobby and I've done a track day'.

Getting a car and not knowing how to drive it is no different to someone buying a £1200 MacBook to surf the internet.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

ardandy said:


> Is it any different to someone buying a 4x4 yet never 'needs' the extra 2 wheel drive?
> 
> There money, there choice, nothing else matters.
> 
> ...


It is their money and their choice, but most people buy cars purely based on image. People will buy big 4x4 for the road presence they have.

The biggest issue when you set a bad driver loose in a powerful car is they become a danger to people around them. It's a lot different to buying a powerful computer.


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

My car has 200bhp, but more importantly I can drive it around corners. She's no super car, but get it on a nice windy road, and its enough fun for me.
I see no end of people in fast, or powerful cars flying up and down the road I use for work. Then as soon as the twisty bits arrive they turn in to my Nan.
So that makes me think they wasted their money and a Micra would better suit them.

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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

You get used to what you have. My daily driver is 1500kg and has just over 300bhp. At times it doesn't really feel that quick any more and wonder what an extra 50 of 100bhp might feel like.

I think it's a credit to manufacturers that cars can deploy that much power with minimal fuss and drama. 30years ago only supercars had the sort of power you can now get in a safe, practical, reliable and even relatively fuel efficient hot hatch.


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## m4rkymark (Aug 17, 2014)

BHP doesn't really mean a lot, it's all about torque and how a car puts the power down. I can't really be doing with new cars, they are all boring and full of too many gadgets to make your life safer. Too many people who have no idea how to drive jump in them with their heated seats, blaring radio, air bags etc. etc. Sitting in their own little bubble and can go 100mph. All this stuff does is give people a false sense of security and a feeling they are invincible, they inspire the wrong kind of confidence.

Give me something that's 80yr old and takes a bit of involvement to drive with an old lazy v8 in it jUst ticking over until you need it - I don't care about fuel efficiency or aerodynamics or getting 100mpg. I don't really care how fast things go now, those days are in the past for me. If I see someone shooting off from the traffic lights nowadays I just think "what a **** - must have a wee ****"

To that end I think if manufacturers want to produce cars with more BHP then let them crack on.


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## stevier88 (Nov 5, 2015)

My s3 is putting out 375bhp just now, do I need that? definitely not, especially when I can't use it for the majority of my driving with speed cameras, police, speed bumps, speed limits but it's good to know it's there when I want to plant the foot and put a smile on my face (obviously within the speed limit of course :car which is what driving is all about for me but everyone has different needs.


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

30 odd years ago, when i was into bikes, I did what all my mates did: learnt on a moped, jumped onto a 250 with "L" plates, passed my test and then went out with a fist full of cash looking for the biggest, maddest Superbike that I could afford.

You ride round on it for about three months feeling like "I am THE man" - You do 150 ( and more) a few times and scare yourself, do a few donuts and feel really, really impressed when it will easily go past 100 in third gear whilst feeling like the front wheel still wants to lift a bit.

Then, after a while, you start to realise that you arnt hooning around on it anymore, because _it is a-bit-dangerous-and-you-could-well-die-this-way_.

That makes you start to look at the way it is eating back tyres at £200 a pop, the way it is stretching chains, the cost of the insurance and how the thing is just too big and heavy to really chuck about.

So i did what all my mates did - traded down to a 500, and realised it does everything you need, even tho you have to wind it up a little more. You end up having a lot more fun too, because it's smaller and lighter and you can chuck it about.

The ONLY thing you miss, is that effortless grunt - that surge of instant, easy power at any time that superbikes give you.

And I have always found cars to be pretty much the same. Supercars are mad and brilliant and fantastic , but don't make much sense on a Monday morning.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

GleemSpray said:


> 30 odd years ago, when i was into bikes, I did what all my mates did: learnt on a moped, jumped onto a 250 with "L" plates, passed my test and then went out with a fist full of cash looking for the biggest, maddest Superbike that I could afford.
> 
> You ride round on it for about three months feeling like "I am THE man" - You do 150 ( and more) a few times and scare yourself, do a few donuts and feel really, really impressed when it will easily go past 100 in third gear whilst feeling like the front wheel still wants to lift a bit.
> 
> ...


I guess that's one of the best things about the latest sport saloon/coupes. On those days where you're pottering down the M25 and just not in the mood, they are so quiet and comfortable. While I'll be hard pressed to argue that 20mpg is reasonable in today's thresholds of fuel economy with diesels and the like, it's not stupid to run these as a daily.

As above, always lovely to know you have some power when you fancy a more spirited drive!


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

RisingPower said:


> At what point do you think cars are going to get lighter?


Its already beginning to happen. Many manufacturers are now getting serious about it with new models being lighter than their predecessors- Astra, most Mazda, Audi TT, Q7, BMW 7 series, Jaguar XJ, Range Rover are just a few that spring to mind but there are many more


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

The company I work for have invented a new lightweight plastic for automotive use. So cars will start getting lighter, for emissions and performance targets.

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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Personally, I think choice is a good thing. I do think that there is a line as regards the power output of 'normal' cars. Things seem to have settled somewhat in the past few years with some hot hatches showing over 300 bhp, but most just nestling nicely just under it. 

My car is diesel. It's got 190bhp and is 4 wheel drive. I do loads of miles every year and the diesel suits my needs. Would I like an M3? Hell yes. I'd have one in a heartbeat. 

Do I need it? No. 

Am I doing it to pee off anyone else? Nope. 

I love cars. I love the sound they make, especially with a 5, 6 or 8 cylinder engine. I probably won't break the speed limit very often. But that's not why I want it. I just want it. 

It's the whole package for me. The look, the feel, the sound. I'll never ever take it on a track, but I've been trained to drive properly on the roads, and that's good enough for me. I don't need to hoon it around to justify ever owning one. 

I'd just love an M3. I probably won't ever own one, but that doesn't stop me wanting one. 

Cooks

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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

245 bhp in my Legacy but the AWD and handling means it's a B road blaster which few can keep up.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

The worst bits of the power war is the fact that you see way too many people thinking they are superman whizzing in and out of traffic on the motorway, undercutting, stupid overtakes on country lanes and driving way too fast on roads with signifant bends

Take the Golf R. Seems to attract pillocks. I havent seen a single one thats not being an idiot at that given time and they are breeding like crazy around here. Saw one doing what looked like 60mph on a residential street the other day, whizzed past so fast you would literally miss it if you blinked


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Cookies said:


> Personally, I think choice is a good thing. I do think that there is a line as regards the power output of 'normal' cars. Things seem to have settled somewhat in the past few years with some hot hatches showing over 300 bhp, but most just nestling nicely just under it.
> 
> My car is diesel. It's got 190bhp and is 4 wheel drive. I do loads of miles every year and the diesel suits my needs. Would I like an M3? Hell yes. I'd have one in a heartbeat.
> 
> ...


I always say if you can forfill your dreams then go for it if it's doable, I always wanted a M car but never could afford it, now I have the chance and I will, you only live once as they say and you can't take it with you, work hard cooks and aspire to what you want, it can be done, just needs time and patience.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Two of the most fun cars I've ever driven..?

2003 MR-2 & 1996 MGF both 130-140bhp from memory. No driving aids, mid-engined, rear wheel drive. 

All of the cars mentioned by the OP are chock full of driving aids. Most people driving them 'fast' are probably being kept out of ditches by computers rather than skill. 

I've currently got a big 2015 diesel v6 4x4 and we did have a 2009 v6 SLK but they were nowhere near as 'pure' as driving the two cars I mentioned before which most people (especially those driving the souped up cars mentioned in the OP) would probably sn1gger at. 

Most modern performance cars and hot hatches made these days have no way of truly turning off the computer/safety systems. I'd probably still have one but if I wanted a 'drivers car' again it would be something with 2 seats, mid-engined, with minimal computer/safety systems and probably not much more than 150-200bhp. In fact it would probably be something most people would call a "hairdressers car".


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## Paul7189 (Nov 11, 2015)

I chose the gt86 over a 370z or a hot hatch for exactly that reason. You can drive it at 10/10ths and have a better time than the others. What's the point in power when you lose your license whenever you use it. I went out with some mates in much more powerful cars and to be fair on twisty roads they could only just keep up. My car gets good fuel economy, if more than fast enough and being a Toyota is reliable. Best of all worlds really. 

Just don't ask an Internet expert because by their standards it's too slow. Meaning they aren't skilled enough to drive it fast.


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## wd40 (Jun 20, 2007)

Been there done it all with the "fast cars" in the past. 
Had 5 x cossies and 2 of those were over 400bhp and were just a handful to drive especially in the wet ! 
2 x Rs turbos, 2 x M3 bmws mitsi evo7 with 370bhp, Scooby with 330bhp bla bla bla I could go on. 
Did I need all these cars with mods...no , Did I want them....oh yes and was lucky enough to be able to afford them at the time. 
However the most fun I would say I had was in my old Mk2 Escort RS2000 (Wish I still had it!) Didn`t have big power (Only 120bhp or so)but loved the bark of the weber twin45`s :driver:

Nowadays I`m happy with my 320d coupe. 177bhp but its fast enough for me plus I get 680 miles to a tank of fuel which costs roughly £75 to fill.


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## REVERSiN (Sep 28, 2015)

I say my opinion based only on my usage, I have a car that weights well over 2 ton. Has 280 HP and a massive acceleration in compared to size, I like powerfull engine. I have driven 4 cylinders up-to v8 and there truly is a point where you say damn I need a little more pull. 
I have driven numerous cars even a 750l yes I find myself unable to drive a car with less that 200hp it's a toy I can't stand it, I do think some cars are over powered but if you look closely, must nowadays cars are sporty based as of its meant to be dual used for highway and track days. 
Some aren't but do have the power side to deliver a nice experience for those who can't afford bigger sports cars. 

I can say I won't in anyway accept a 1.6l for sure, I even always thought "buy an automatic get at least 2l" since they feel lazy and unresponsive.

Mods, would love them but don't see myself stay more than 3 years with the same ride, I prefer always buying a higher model and year, and a tip if you are going to buy a second hand car you may at least buy the highest trim there is feel better about yourself. I won't buy knew cars my friends do but prices fall so damn quick here that after a year you say I didn't even drive the car as many miles as it went down in price XD

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## Jam* (Apr 24, 2016)

I have driven Range Rover Sports for the past 10 years until last month when i sold it a bought a Mk7 Golf R and now contemplating APR stage 1. 

Why ?

I have no idea mid life crises lol


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

That push you back into the seat wave of power that you feel is all about torque, but its bhp that sells cars, not torque. Bhp may be sexy, but torque is that quite literally pulling power.

I think the future is going to be very interesting, the current trend in top end hyper cars and formula 1 for using electric hybrids for improved performance rather than the improved economy and reduced emissions they have been used for up to now will soon filter down to through the market, eventually putting the technology into the everyday retail sector. Electric motors produce fantastic amounts of torque and unlike combustion engines, have access to that maximum torque virtually instantly, where a combustion engine has to reach a certain speed before it puts out its max power. In recent years there has been a trend of putting big turbo's on relatively small engines to give a good chunk of power from an ever more economical unit, a brilliant idea to get the best of both worlds, so with the increased pressure to improve fuel economy and reduce emissions the power orientated electric hybrid is the next logical step. 

While performance, safety and economy will always continue to increase I think the main area we need to improve on urgently is driver training. I remember reading recently that on avaerage a new driver receives something along the lines of 18 hours instruction to get them through their test to becme a licensed driver, however Starbucks don't let their barristas loose on the public without a minimum of 24 hours training. I have no idea how accurate that is but it scares the hell out of me. The Jezza in me is all for technological advancement, especially when it comes to cars and POWERRRRRR! but the Victor Meldrew in me is sick of 19 year olds taking the racing line across roundabouts and using the right turn lane at traffic lights for practicng their launch control to get past traffic going straight on, especially when they are doing it in their moms Polo.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

I do not think there is a problem but there are many facets to the question

For a good few years customers have wanted / expected / deserved vehicles that are of higher quality, are more refined - historically this has brought about weight increases and to offset the weight power had to increase - Mazda is probably foremost with their SkyActiv strategy who are proving that weight can be removed without impacting on quality and refinement

Legislation has forced more and more safety aids that have added weight - more weight means more power is required to at least maintain performance levels

Manufacturers marketing departments now generally hold sway over engineers, these ever so bright marketing people apparently "know" exactly what customers want and thats what gets developed - most engineers hold their hand in their hands as their best efforts are destroyed by marketing people. Most senior engineers I speak to will readily admit that the "sweet spot" (balance of performance, ride, handling, steering) in most model ranges is in the lower to middle range models and not the "performance" models

Journalists who seem to think that every customer has the ability to drive like a driving god and is only interested in performance at the limit, 0-60 times etc, the easily swayed public then believe that this is what they should be focused on when in fact most drivers simply do not have the ability to drive most cars at anywhere near their limits

At least there is a move away from ever larger, ever heavier cars, driven by economy / emissions regulations admittedly but at the performance end of most model ranges their is still this race to top in terms of power

I personally have no problem with "affordable" cars with lots of power, however I do also believe that there should be a tiered driving licence system where additional training is required before you are allowed to drive more powerful vehicles, done on either a bhp or power to weighjt ratio scale

Most fun I have had in cars has been a Fiat Cinquecento Sporting and a Saxo VTR - both cars with relatively limited performance but light weight, purity of feel etc meant that they were genuinely good fun to drive and could be pushed close to their limits at sensible speeds


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

smw said:


> How many of you have had a go on a 1000cc superbike? Most cars seem mundane when you've shat your pants off giving one of those the beans.


When I first went on my dad's 1998 CBR 600, I couldn't belive how fast it was, think I screamed to myself in my helmet!!
Why I'm hopefully selling the car, getting a cheap diesel for work and get a bike licence/bike

Can't imagine what something like the bmw RR goes like


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## smw (Mar 16, 2016)

I can only imagine how a modern, 200hp bike feels at full power. Formula 1 acceleration and top end. Just lacking their mid range, really.


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## REVERSiN (Sep 28, 2015)

I think it accelerates faster than F1 lol, I have an A license for a superbike. The fastest I rode was 600cc supersport category. 
These machines have no mercy or forgiveness when making a mistake it's like riding a horror train without belts and almost falling at each corner. 
I love bikes the thing is I can't afford one now since to me the prices aren't reasonable, my country raises them so that less people buy as it's dangerous. I believe that when the moment arrive for all I know it could be while walking so it's pretty stupid counting on such thing to judge, true rates are high risk are more but again it's only 10% less in a sports car so... 

Adrenaline is what pumps bike riders if you haven't tried it then you don't know what you are missing though some people might not like others would admire. 

Think of it as buying a Ferrari with 10% of the price (maybe even get better power).
If you think the BMW 1000RR or HP4 is fast think about the H2r (supercharged) now that's madness, I would love to try but I'm sure it's too risky for a maniac like me XD

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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

In regards the original post, the answer is probably that no we don't need more power. 

I sold a 260bhp Megane and 99% of the time I never wanted for more power. It was quicker than most cars on the road and was a great balance of usable power. Then I ended up with a car with 500bhp so usable power and desirable power are different things even though day to day you'd never ever use 500bhp. 

Thing is as far as many are concerned, power is progress. Look at hot hatches 15 years ago and sub 200bhp and fairly lightweight was the way of things. Now it's about 4WD and 300bhp+ or it just doesn't compete. 

Funny thing is that my Twingo which weighs a tonne and has 130bhp is similar performance to a MKI or MKII Golf GTI and yet it's considered a warm hatch. Yet in my eyes it's the essence of the hot hatch. 

As said, cars are all about willy waving and everyone wants big power even if they don't use it. I'm guilty of it too. :wall:


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

I'm driving a 400bhp supercharged V8 and it's too much for everyday driving. You've got to be very conservative with the throttle, particularly on a roundabout in the wet and the only time I can open her up properly is on the entry ramp to the motorway, and even then that's less than 6 seconds until I'm breaking the national speed limit and probably looking like a complete bellend at the same time.

I love it, a great relaxed motorway cruiser (about 1700rpm at 70mph), but it's not needed... ever.

As others have said - Power is seen as progress, but that isn't necessarily the case. Just for comparison, the replacement for mine is the XFR which has in the region of 550bhp. If I don't need 400bhp then I certainly don't need 550bhp. 

But ignore all of the above, it's just really fun


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/motorist-crashes-200000-mclaren-supercar-7885482

Lots and lots of lovely horsepower is fine, so long as you don't try to drive it like you would a 1.1 Ford Fiesta ... :lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ford-focus-rs-mountune-upgrade-kit-launched

And right on cue, I couldn't have timed this thread any better, :lol: Mountune to deliver 400 BHP upgrade on Focus RS.


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

nope doesnt do anything for me anymore been there done all that, boring these days


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

GleemSpray said:


> Lots and lots of lovely horsepower is fine, so long as you don't try to drive it like you would a 1.1 Ford Fiesta ... :lol::lol::lol::lol:


Try telling my other half that haha. We had a conversation a while back where she went, 'Well I let you drive my car so you should let me drive yours'.

Her normal car is a 1.6 diesel Focus and the car she's referring to was my CLS. Now she's not overly harsh on cars but she's not overly careful either. Like the time she bumped off the kerb and went, 'Didn't realise I was on the car'. I remind her of that when she mentions driving the Merc. :lol:


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

My wife drove the Aston twice, the second time she drove it into a kerbstone and took some nice chunks of plastic and paint out of it. She was too scared to drive it again!!

Prior to that she was desperate to drive it (despite claiming she had no interest!!) but drove it no faster than 50 mph haha.

The Volvo is hammered from the moment the start button is pushed until it's shut down. I got it her because it's strong and had tall tyres so it's hard for her to kerb the wheels


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## Clancy (Jul 21, 2013)

Wouldn't day no to more power from a car but it's not really needed

Problem is price and running costs of a fast car can be obscene. My mate had had a 500 bhp evo and now a similar powered merc and his running costs are outrageous for something that doesn't feel that fast 

Obviously not as practice but bikes are just far better and more enjoyable. I'd probably need to spend 100k+ to get a car that's as fun as a bike that cost 3 grand. My gsxr cost me 3 grand a few years back, was peanuts on fuel tax insurance and maintenence. Did over 170 mph, could break any speed limits in first gear, was great fun, a lot of powerful cars make you feel detached from driving, look at all the r35 gtr owners opinions on it. certainly can't say that about bikes


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## smw (Mar 16, 2016)

*.*



Clancy said:


> Wouldn't day no to more power from a car but it's not really needed
> 
> Problem is price and running costs of a fast car can be obscene. My mate had had a 500 bhp evo and now a similar powered merc and his running costs are outrageous for something that doesn't feel that fast
> 
> Obviously not as practice but bikes are just far better and more enjoyable. I'd probably need to spend 100k+ to get a car that's as fun as a bike that cost 3 grand. My gsxr cost me 3 grand a few years back, was peanuts on fuel tax insurance and maintenence. Did over 170 mph, could break any speed limits in first gear, was great fun, a lot of powerful cars make you feel detached from driving, look at all the r35 gtr owners opinions on it. certainly can't say that about bikes


Couldn't agree more.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

To be fair mention of bikes makes me think that might be a reason why I'm more interested in handling than power. Nothing more fun than taking the **** out of power rangers on the twisties when I'm on a £500 500cc ****ebox and they're on a £10000 superbike.


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