# Insurers agree to reduce premiums...



## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

http://www.insuranceage.co.uk/insur...e-premiums-government-action-cuts-legal-costs :thumb:

Positive news, may take some time, but there is positive action being taken by both the Government and Insurers to put a stop to the escalating costs....

Cynics post away...


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## Lee.GTi180 (Apr 28, 2010)

Buuuuulllllllllllllllllsss****ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt :thumb:

Why is car insurance so much more than home/life/contents/travel etc?


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

As someone who pays insurance, I'm glad... but won't hold my breath...

As a shareholder... I'm outraged!!! :lol:

:thumb:


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## SimonBash (Jun 7, 2010)

Lee.GTi180 said:


> Buuuuulllllllllllllllllsss****ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt :thumb:
> 
> Why is car insurance so much more than home/life/contents/travel etc?


Thats a very general question isnt it?

In general insurers make no money from motor insurance itself, they used to use the premiums collected to invest elsewhere and make their money this way, in the current financial climate this is not a viable option so insurers have tried to underwrite motor insurance for a profit.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Lee.GTi180 said:


> Buuuuulllllllllllllllllsss****ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt :thumb:
> 
> Why is car insurance so much more than home/life/contents/travel etc?


That depends. My house insurance is more than my car insurance, despite only living in a bog standard old 3 bed end terrace house.


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## Lee.GTi180 (Apr 28, 2010)

I suppose as you get older they become more linear in price, however for a 22 year old my car insurance is getting on for double my home/contents insurance.

Anyway back on track, will hold my breath, every female I know is still paying a hell of a lot less than the men I know so won't be counting on this happening any time soon.


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## john2garden (Nov 16, 2006)

What a load of tripe, I am switching from a E46 320d to a Skoda Fabia VRS Diesel and rang Adrian Flux yesterday to inform them. I was expecting a reduction because I pay circa £600 for the BMW (the Fabia being a lower insurance group too). Surprise it was the same price so my monthly payments would stay the same. And they wanted £25 to change the documents. SOME OF YOU are crooks and I hope the bubble bursts for you very soon.


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## toomanycitroens (Jan 14, 2011)

We will never notice the difference, of course it will still keep going up with service charges/inflation or whatever else the rising costs will be blamed on.
They just won't be able to use previous excuses for penalising 'honest' drivers!
Why is the fine cheaper than the premium for driving with no Insurance?
The penalties should be far more severe and part of the fine put in a 'pot' to reduce the premiums.:thumb:


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

It's always 2 steps forward, 1 step
Back. And people think they are getting a good deal

Just like fuel prices. They increase it by 10p a litre and everyone goes "noooo!" 

Then they decrease it by 5p and everyone rushes to the petrol stations thinking they're getting a good deal


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## SimonBash (Jun 7, 2010)

john2garden said:


> What a load of tripe, I am switching from a E46 320d to a Skoda Fabia VRS Diesel and rang *Adrian Flux* yesterday to inform them. I was expecting a reduction because I pay circa £600 for the BMW (the Fabia being a lower insurance group too). Surprise it was the same price so my monthly payments would stay the same. And they wanted £25 to change the documents. *You are all crooks *and I hope the bubble bursts for you very soon.


Because of the company you mention all people in the insurance industry are crooks?

So....if one detailer upsets his/her clients are all detailers cowboys?


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## john2garden (Nov 16, 2006)

SimonBash said:


> Because of the company you mention all people in the insurance industry are crooks?
> 
> So....if one detailer upsets his/her clients are all detailers cowboys?


What's a detailer got to do with anything? Are you saying that insurance companies are not ripping us off? Hence the crooks comment as they are all in it together.


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## SimonBash (Jun 7, 2010)

john2garden said:


> What's a detailer got to do with anything? Are you saying that insurance companies are not ripping us off? Hence the crooks comment as they are all in it together.


I was trying to say you are tarring all insurers with the same brush due to the experience you had with Adrian Flux.


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

SimonBash said:


> I was trying to say you are tarring all insurers with the same brush due to the experience you had with Adrian Flux.


i would tar them all with the same brush in fact i would like to stick the brush and the tar right up there.......


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## john2garden (Nov 16, 2006)

I am not really tarring them all, there seems to be a massive 'bandwagon' situation now with everything, such as Gas, Electricity, Insurance, they can charge what they want and people have to pay. 
Because of the high premiums this is creating more un-insured drivers. If they reduced the prices more people would be able to afford insurance surely??


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## SimonBash (Jun 7, 2010)

john2garden said:


> I am not really tarring them all, there seems to be a massive 'bandwagon' situation now with everything, such as Gas, Electricity, Insurance, they can charge what they want and people have to pay.
> Because of the high premiums this is creating more un-insured drivers. If they reduced the prices more people would be able to afford insurance surely??


It is a very complex situation, all motor insurers pay into the Motor Insurance Bureau (MIB) body which deals with claims where innocent parties suffer damage to their car and/or injury due to the actions of an uninsured driver and/or a foreign driver who cannot be traced.

They are also in competion with eachother, and spend a lot of money on TV ads and the same to get your business so I don't think they are in it together.

Also remember the personal injury culture is a massive problem and cost to insurers which they have to pass on in their premiums.


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## SimonBash (Jun 7, 2010)

justina3 said:


> i would tar them all with the same brush in fact i would like to stick the brush and the tar right up there.......


What a constructive comment:tumbleweed:


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

So I'm a crook? 

I'm probably one of the most honest persons I know, so find that quite offensive. 

Oh, and that doesnt mean everyone else I know is dishonest!

I've probably talked as many people out of buying insurance as I have sold insurance. I sell on integrity, not self centred profit, although profit is nice.


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

john2garden said:


> What's a detailer got to do with anything? Are you saying that insurance companies are not ripping us off? Hence the crooks comment as they are all in it together.


Why don;t you set up your own insurance company then and give us all really cheap premiums, but still be prepared to pay out for all the accidents/uninsured drivers/whiplash claims etc and all the while try and make some money out of it??


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## john2garden (Nov 16, 2006)

Shiny said:


> So I'm a crook?
> 
> I'm probably one of the most honest persons I know, so find that quite offensive.
> 
> ...


I don't know what you are, what I am getting at the problem is insurance does not offer value for money. Any excuse to raise premiums you do so, false whiplash claims etc should not affect drivers with decent no claims. The insurance companies need to get together with the Government, Doctors, whoever and try to banish this claim culture and not just spread the cost so everyone has to pay.


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

Good - let's hope it's not just all talk.

I've been with swift cover for the last three years, each year, the premium was very competitive, this year's renewal quote '£1001.98' - £150 more than last year.

Utterly disgraceful.


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## SimonBash (Jun 7, 2010)

john2garden said:


> I don't know what you are, what I am getting at the problem is insurance does not offer value for money. Any excuse to raise premiums you do so, *false whiplash claims etc should not affect drivers with decent no claims*. The insurance companies need to get together with the Government, Doctors, whoever and try to banish this claim culture and not just spread the cost so everyone has to pay.


They will affect drivers with a good claims history etc less.

Insurance is about the pooling of risks, the premiums of the many to pay for the claims of the few, with each level of premium representing the risk that each policyholder presents to the insurers in respect of the liklihood of having a claim(s) and the potential severity of such claims.

I pay £535 for my Golf which is probably worth £7,500, for my money I have cover if:

1 - I damage the car through my own negligent driving
2 - For damage I may to to other cars/property/injury I may cause others
3 - Should my car be stolen or damaged by fire, malicous damage etc

Bearing above the protection I get, I am happy to pay £535.


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## nickfrog (Nov 29, 2010)

I am sure that there are some honest people working in the motor insurance industry and there might even be some honest companies. In my experience though, they are such a small minority that saying that they are all crooks is fair.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

john2garden said:


> I don't know what you are, what I am getting at the problem is insurance does not offer value for money. Any excuse to raise premiums you do so, false whiplash claims etc should not affect drivers with decent no claims. The insurance companies need to get together with the Government, Doctors, whoever and try to banish this claim culture and not just spread the cost so everyone has to pay.


Did you not read the link then? This is exactly what they are doing, and insurers have said they will reduce premiums as a result of this.

I've spent most of my insurance life fighting for fairness for customers, the last 4 or so in particular to get a fair deal for the misrepresented valeting industry, to the point that premiums have more than halved and the cover is far far better than most customers would have ever expected. In return I get branded a crook because I am in the insurance industry? Comments like that make my endless hours of unpaid dedication so much more worthwhile.


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## SimonBash (Jun 7, 2010)

nickfrog said:


> I am sure that there are some honest people working in the motor insurance industry and there might even be some honest companies. In my experience though, they are such a small minority that saying that they are all crooks is fair.


Just don't expect those honest ones to help you out when the "crooks" stich you up then:thumb:


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

nickfrog said:


> I am sure that there are some honest people working in the motor insurance industry and there might even be some honest companies. In my experience though, they are such a small minority that saying that they are all crooks is fair.


On the other hand, after 26 years as a high street broker, dealing with lots of people within the industry, both brokers and insurers, nearly every one I know is genuine and honest.

The real crooks are the ones making false and inflated claims, so you should br blaming the cause, not the effect.


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## john2garden (Nov 16, 2006)

I will wait to pass judgment for now then, my renewal is up in September and will have to wait and see if it is cheaper.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Every one has been moaning about insurance premiums for the last year, so i post a bit of possitive news and before it gets to the second page I am branded a crook. 

I am somewhat wound up by this, the sun is out, ive the rest of the week off with the kids, so I'm going to clean the car.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Shiny said:


> http://www.insuranceage.co.uk/insur...e-premiums-government-action-cuts-legal-costs :thumb:
> 
> Positive news, may take some time, but there is positive action being taken by both the Government and Insurers to put a stop to the escalating costs....
> 
> Cynics post away...


They ran an article on the beebs yesterday morning, basically you could 'expect' your premium to drop £90 by the end of it, hardly a saving 
perhaps if premiums were reasonable to start with, there maybe less claiming.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

My food bill is high, it has gone up massively over the last year. I don't steal as a result though and argue that it ok to steal as sainsburys are charging too much.


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## john2garden (Nov 16, 2006)

Shiny said:


> Every one has been moaning about insurance premiums for the last year, so i post a bit of possitive news and before it gets to the second page I am branded a crook.
> 
> I am somewhat wound up by this, the sun is out, ive the rest of the week off with the kids, so I'm going to clean the car.


I was merely basing my comment on yesterday's experience with Adrian Flux so if you are offended I apologise. What you have got to remember is that if people have bad experiences they generalise. If what you have posted does indeed happen then it will be great as a consumer and long overdue. But I suspect the premiums decrease will take a long while to filter through.

I have edited my post to say 'Some of you' and not 'All of you'. Enjoy cleaning your car.


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

If my premium drops by 90 quid, thats a 30% drop for me.
If it cheers shiny up, I'll be happy at that. (tho he's probably out stealing lollipops from toddlers)


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## nickfrog (Nov 29, 2010)

Shiny said:


> The real crooks are the ones making false and inflated claims, so you should br blaming the cause, not the effect.


Paying out on fraudulent claims and making every one else pay is a big part of the cause and is what most of the "honest" industry does, because it's simpler.


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

SimonBash said:


> What a constructive comment:tumbleweed:


thank you very kind of you to say so


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## ivor (Sep 24, 2008)

well after today I am seriously thinking about driving uninsured as the court fine would be cheaper I have had Direct ****s try to rip me off I agreed a value of £700 for my old golf as I am a fairly good judge of what a cars worth so after i pay the £350 excess i expect to get a check for £350 ,But no I get one for £250 as they have added and extra £100 premium on to the excess ? so after a phone call and much talking about the fact they also charged me £230 for a stainless steel exhaust on top of my insurance which was originally £215 it is now going through complaints and onto the ombudsman but not all insurers are crooks just confused bankers


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

SimonBash said:


> Thats a very general question isnt it?
> 
> In general insurers make no money from motor insurance itself, they used to use the premiums collected to invest elsewhere and make their money this way, in the current financial climate this is not a viable option so insurers have tried to underwrite motor insurance for a profit.


They make a hell of a lot from me. They've never paid me a bean


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## SimonBash (Jun 7, 2010)

SimonBash said:


> They will affect drivers with a good claims history etc less.
> 
> *Insurance is about the pooling of risks, the premiums of the many to pay for the claims of the few*, with each level of premium representing the risk that each policyholder presents to the insurers in respect of the liklihood of having a claim(s) and the potential severity of such claims.
> 
> ...


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Shiny said:


> My food bill is high, it has gone up massively over the last year. I don't steal as a result though and argue that it ok to steal as sainsburys are charging too much.


Not so sure about the stealing, the last guy that ran into me I didn't claim, although I did have good cause too, if folk were more careful of rear end shunts (I know it's not the only cause) claims would reduce, but as another poster points out, the reductions will tricklethrough much too slowly, I don't like to blame the banks though the reason premiums have gone up is that in the past they largely wanted your money to invest, now that investments are not so good as in the past, the profits have to come from premiums


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

john2garden said:


> I was merely basing my comment on yesterday's experience with Adrian Flux so if you are offended I apologise. What you have got to remember is that if people have bad experiences they generalise. If what you have posted does indeed happen then it will be great as a consumer and long overdue. But I suspect the premiums decrease will take a long while to filter through.
> 
> I have edited my post to say 'Some of you' and not 'All of you'. Enjoy cleaning your car.


So to summarise, you expected a reduction on the assumption that you would get a refund following a change of vehicle as the replacement vehicle may be a lower group rating, without taking into account that there could be other influencing factors, such as change in the "age of vehicle" discount, vehicle value etc. I'm sure Flux will be able to explain why there was no premium refund. They will also be able to confirm the vehicle group difference between the two cars and how this may have been offset by a change in other discounts.

In addition, Flux have charged a £25 admin fee which was stated in the Terms Of Business which you would have been provided with when you took out the policy. Brokers are required by the FSA to provide a TOBA at inception which details their admin charges. If you were unhappy with their admin charges, you could have chose not to proceed with them. Instead of doing this, at some point later you have decided that everybody is a crook because they are charging a fee which was made aware to you and which you agreed to at the inception of the policy.

I still don't think you have any reasonable grounds to accuse either your Insurers or Flux as being crooks.



nickfrog said:


> Paying out on fraudulent claims and making every one else pay is a big part of the cause and is what most of the "honest" industry does, because it's simpler.


It never ceases to amaze me how misinformed opinions are stated as facts. Do you honestly believe that insurers are happy to pay out fraudulent claims because they can recoup their losses by upping premiums? Insurance fraud is a massive concern for insurers and there is a lot of time, technology and man power invested in trying to reduce it. Some insurers even have voice recognition software on their claim reporting lines that can highlight potential fraud by detecting "indicators" in voice patterns.

A big problem is the organised criminals that are using insurers as a means of gaining money with whiplash claims and staged/forced accidents. Then there are the cash for crash claims where "some" solicitors are actively encouraging people to claim, some even actively encouraging false or exaggerated injuries.

The other problem with insurance fraud is that there is a worrying percentage of normally honest citizens that see nothing wrong in "upping" the cost of claim or including things that weren't actually damaged by the incident concerned. Stealing is wrong, full stop, whether that be from a shop, a business or an insurance company, and until this sort of attitude changes, there is little hope.

I have mentioned this before, on more than one occasion I have seen third party injury claims where the accidental damage to a car has been nothing more than a scratch. I even had one client that clipped an empty car when reversing into a parking space. A few weeks later four injury claims appeared on his doormat from the driver and three passengers that weren't even in the vehicle at the time! This then turned into a case of four witness statements against one and a claim with ridiculous injury reserves and solicitors costs. I won't go into the ins and outs of how fleet insurance is rated, but it had a detrimental effect on the claims experience and therefore the premium.

How anyone can condone this sort of behaviour is beyond me.

Finally, most Insurers are running at a COR between 90 and 120%, with the majority over the 100% mark. A COR of 120% means that for every £1 they take in premium, they lose £1.20. It has been like this for a number of years. Yes they make profit on other accounts, but generally motor has not been good. Investments have gone, costs have gone up, reinsurance costs have gone up, injury claims and awards has increase, as a result, motor insurance had to go up massively over the last year or so. or, have some Insurers have done, they have pulled out of the motor market altogether.

On a good note, my pockets are full of lollipops stolen from the neighbourhood kiddies (there is no crime in that, their faceless parents will foot the bill....) and my car has had a quick wash down, ready for a wipe down with some V7 in the morning and a bit of tyre shine....



















And even better news, my Pspec weighted racing knob has arrived from the USA :thumb:. My aluminium Tyre R knob is freezing cold this time of year and the Pspec one is powder coated so hopefully won't be so cold...


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Shiny said:


> A big problem is the organised criminals that are using insurers as a means of gaining money with whiplash claims and staged/forced accidents. *Then there are the cash for crash claims where "some" solicitors are actively encouraging people to claim, some even actively encouraging false or exaggerated injuries.*


Yep I can identify with that, the last incident I had the claims people were ringing weekly , I kept saying I did not want to claim, some became quite rude when they were informed that I was not wishing to persue a claim.


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## nickfrog (Nov 29, 2010)

Shiny said:


> Loads of interesting stuff...


... but nothing about the kickbacks that Insurers get from the "Accident Management Companies", which perversely encourage the abuses of the claim/compensation culture that had developed. Funny that... Or maybe I got the facts wrong ?


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

nickfrog said:


> ... but nothing about the kickbacks that Insurers get from the "Accident Management Companies", which perversely encourage the abuses of the claim/compensation culture that had developed. Funny that... Or maybe I got the facts wrong ?


The only defence i will make on behalf of the insurers is that these kickbacks were already happening elsewhere and they were paying the cost. They jumped on the band wagon in as much that the costs were going to happen any way, so if they got in there first with the referral at least they could benefit from it. To a certain degree it was a case of if you can't beat them join them.

I'm not saying I agree with it. Either way, most insurers have now stopped this practice and further reforms are due on referral fees.

I can't wait to post next time I have some more "good news".....


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

john2garden said:


> What a load of tripe, I am switching from a E46 320d to a Skoda Fabia VRS Diesel and rang Adrian Flux yesterday to inform them. I was expecting a reduction because I pay circa £600 for the BMW (the Fabia being a lower insurance group too). Surprise it was the same price so my monthly payments would stay the same. And they wanted £25 to change the documents. SOME OF YOU are crooks and I hope the bubble bursts for you very soon.


Lots of vag cars are more expensive to insure it is alot to do with how costly it is to repair and how likely it could get stolen, also someone may have moved house and higher crime rate, also alot of the extra charges is to cover staff costs as more and more rules to adhere to now adays and you will find alot of companies are hardly breaking even on there General business, bit harsh re crooks as even in lower group not always cheaper for the above reasons


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

As someone who has never benefited from car insurance I feel the same as most. Once a year I have to oull my pants down and get shafted. When I fitted my new wheels i declared them and also wanted to declare my wheel nuts and spacers so they would be replaced if stolen but the insurance company said its not an option to cover my nuts and spacers. Once again, i was let down by the insurance industry. Oh and theres the fact I have an 800 quid excess on my wheels, seems kinda pointless to bother declaring then Tbh


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

It you are planning on modifying your car, find a mod friendly insurer and discuss potential mods before you take out a policy. 

When I insured my old Prelude, I cleared up most of possible work (induction, exhaust, lip kit etc) at quote stage, got it in writing and when I got round to doing each bit it was pre agreed plain sailing. 

The majority of insurers don't accommodate mods very well and will want premium loadings or silly terms, others will want the policy cancelled and replaced elsewhere. Motor insurance is an annual contract, so be sure you iron out these things before you just go with cheapest quote at the time.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

It's my car though. I should be able to do what I want to it.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Need to stop whiplash claims fulls stop. i've got 4 friends that have all been hit from behind and claimed for whiplash, all admit they were a little sore for a day but that was it. What they need is an opt out for whiplash, if you want it covered pay an extra few grand.


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## SimonBash (Jun 7, 2010)

Darlofan said:


> Need to stop whiplash claims fulls stop. i've got 4 friends that have all been hit from behind and claimed for whiplash, all admit they were a little sore for a day but that was it. What they need is an opt out for whiplash, if you want it covered pay an extra few grand.


Its not covered by your own policy mate, your mates will have claimed against the person (their insurers) who hit them in the rear.

Injury claims and recovering your excess etc are called uninsured losses, i.e. they are not covered by your own policy. Insurers often offer optional uninsured loss cover which gives you assistance in trying to recover these uninsured losses from the responsible party.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

SimonBash said:


> Its not covered by your own policy mate, your mates will have claimed against the person (their insurers) who hit them in the rear.
> 
> Injury claims and recovering your excess etc are called uninsured losses, i.e. they are not covered by your own policy. Insurers often offer optional uninsured loss cover which gives you assistance in trying to recover these uninsured losses from the responsible party.


Sorry yeah was aware of that, just saying it's the whiplash claims that are putting up everyones premiums. I would quite happily pay lower premium knowing I wasn't covered for whiplash injuries etc (the ones doctors can never prove). Compensation should be relative to losses as well, out of my 4 mates there 2 were unemployed at the time yet made thousands, why? They lost nothing, still got paid benefits. Fair enough if you need time off work then claim for, loss of earnings but that's it. Maybe they should put my expenses dept at work in charge of it everyone would give up claiming then:lol::lol:


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