# Waterless Detailing



## DIESEL DAVE (Jul 26, 2007)

I`ll tell you now waterless is the way to go.
I know these type of products have been out in one form or another for a long time without a lot of success but water wastage will be quite rightly outlawed in the future.
Already leading up to completely waterless we have products such as Optimum No Rinse which will in turn give way to completely waterless as confidence in this type of product grows and the general public opinion on water usage change.


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## lessh2o (Sep 3, 2009)

I agree only a mater of time.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I have some DP Waterless wash Very kindly sent to me by Lump thanks mate:thumb:Anyway I have not used it yet but I am going to soon and with an open mind.


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

I disagree. We have a pretty good environmentally friendly way of washing the cars at PB and I'm still 100% adamant that I couldnt clean a car as well as I do at this moment in time if I was using just waterless wash products - if the day ever comes that proves me wrong I'll put my hands up but I think its a fair way off yet.

This isnt me slagging off waterless wash products as they have their uses and are very good for certain situations and it would be ignorant of me to think otherwise but no chance am I using it on customers cars.


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Clark said:


> I disagree. We have a pretty good environmentally friendly way of washing the cars at PB and I'm still 100% adamant that I couldnt clean a car as well as I do at this moment in time if I was using just waterless wash products - if the day ever comes that proves me wrong I'll put my hands up but I think its a fair way off yet.
> 
> This isnt me slagging off waterless wash products as they have their uses and are very good for certain situations and it would be ignorant of me to think otherwise but no chance am I using it on customers cars.


With you on this one mate, I couldn't achieve the same level of clean or finish with waterless products.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Clark said:


> I disagree. We have a pretty good environmentally friendly way of washing the cars at PB and I'm still 100% adamant that I couldnt clean a car as well as I do at this moment in time if I was using just waterless wash products - if the day ever comes that proves me wrong I'll put my hands up but I think its a fair way off yet.
> 
> This isnt me slagging off waterless wash products as they have their uses and are very good for certain situations and it would be ignorant of me to think otherwise but no chance am I using it on customers cars.


100% Agree, it may be ok on a lightly dirty car, but how do you supposed to degrease door shuts, clean gubby inner wheels that have not been cleaned in years or even wheel arches etc etc, as i said it dose have its uses (we have some cars we use ONR on (city car parks) and even a waterless product for a dealer we prep new cars for as there is just no way for us to clean them, but at the moment nothing is as paint safe and thorough as the traditional washing method.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I do agree you can get a much cleaner car using water and a PW.


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

I agree, everything I have learnt about detailing tells me that a waterless system cannot give the best finish with out the risk of paint damage. I am open minded though and if there is evidence that waterless systems can achive without damage I would be interested.


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## spooks (Sep 7, 2009)

They said ONR wouldn't work either, seems to be doing ok.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

ONR is something im looking at trying at some point, but nothing beats a full wash imo - cleaning around the doorshuts, wheel arches, inside of the wheels etc etc


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## karl_liverpool (Sep 25, 2008)

i have waterless products on my van but only use them for a wipe down of the van after a day of work. i wouldnt use them on a booking tho. its just psychological cos its hasnt damaged the van in any way.

i just prefer the water method. and agree with others that water and a pw achieve the best results


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

karl_liverpool said:


> i have waterless products on my van but only use them for a wipe down of the van after a day of work. i wouldnt use them on a booking tho. its just psychological cos its hasnt damaged the van in any way.
> 
> i just prefer the water method. and agree with others that water and a pw achieve the best results


off topic - congrats on the supporter status karl :thumb:


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## karl_liverpool (Sep 25, 2008)

-Kev- said:


> off topic - congrats on the supporter status karl :thumb:


thanks kev  took me a while but got there in the end lol


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## DIESEL DAVE (Jul 26, 2007)

Clark said:


> I disagree. I'm still 100% adamant that I couldnt clean a car as well as I do at this moment in time if I was using just waterless wash products
> This isnt me slagging off waterless wash products .


You seem to have missed the point my friend, I wasn`t making comparisons as to which gives the best results but that basically like it or lump it waterless will be the only truly environmentally friendly choice of anyone with a conscience in the future. 
There`s something obscene about people suffering on the other side of the world because of a lack of clean water while we waste/use it on keeping vehicles clean


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

DIESEL DAVE said:


> You seem to have missed the point my friend, I wasn`t making comparisons as to which gives the best results but that basically like it or lump it waterless will be the only truly environmentally friendly choice of anyone with a conscience in the future.
> There`s something obscene about people suffering on the other side of the world because of a lack of clean water while we waste/use it on keeping vehicles clean


I get what you're saying but the system we have in place at PB (and a few others particularly in the US seem to be following) is something which would still enable us to use it should these more environmentally friendly regualtions ever happen :thumb:


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

DIESEL DAVE said:


> You seem to have missed the point my friend, I wasn`t making comparisons as to which gives the best results but that basically like it or lump it waterless will be the only truly environmentally friendly choice of anyone with a conscience in the future.
> *There`s something obscene about people suffering on the other side of the world because of a lack of clean water while we waste/use it on keeping vehicles clean*


Same could be said for me throwing 2 dinners in the bin last night because A/ i cooked too much and B/ One of the kids didn't eat it.

Same could be said about having a bath instead of a shower

I will use ONR at some point and im sure they are good but not for me yet


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## The Sheriff (Jul 15, 2008)

DIESEL DAVE said:


> You seem to have missed the point my friend, I wasn`t making comparisons as to which gives the best results but that basically like it or lump it waterless will be the only truly environmentally friendly choice of anyone with a conscience in the future.
> There`s something obscene about people suffering on the other side of the world because of a lack of clean water while we waste/use it on keeping vehicles clean


That is sad, i agree. But surely how we use water, has no influence on water shortage in Africa??


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## karl_liverpool (Sep 25, 2008)

how can we have a water shortage when the earth is 2/3 water and we have technology to desalinate it.


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

So true Karl


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## spooks (Sep 7, 2009)

DIESEL DAVE said:


> There`s something obscene about people suffering on the other side of the world because of a lack of clean water while we waste/use it on keeping vehicles clean


I think you're wasting your breath in here, look at the studio posts to see the waste in this industry, there was a post the other day where a guy washed the car at least 6 times before he was convinced it was clean enough, how many gallons was that then!

Waterless is a small step forward, but it will be a long time before its embraced by all, some cant see whats happening environmentally and some just dont care. The fact that products like ONR are becoming more popular at least shows some people are thinking about it


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

doesnt matter if you didnt save any water, ONR is the way forward :lol:


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## donnie darko (May 15, 2009)

hello my name is Eli, in the post apocalyptic future there will be little drinkable water, you will look back on today wishing you chose a waterless system.
I just bought my first bottle of ONR, can't wait to use it tomorrow!!


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

how will there be little drinking water? next you will be saying the planets getting warmer :lol:


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## 0507448n (Feb 3, 2010)

we need to get the geographers in. From what i have learnt from first and second year uni, water doesnt disappear. the global amount of water stays the same no matter what. I think the problem is with polluting the water. 

ONR and similar products are ok for quick and not so dirty cars IMO. There is nothing better than a couple of warm buckets and a PW to blast the grim off. 

But i do have one question, does ONR work on wheels????


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

ONR works great on wheels, its better at cleaning than any shampoo i have used thats for sure... 

add protection to your wheels to make it easier if you want. I stilll use a weak wheel cleaning mix with a brush, then a watering can to rinse, i top up the wheels with opti-seal monthly


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## Sonic (Jun 28, 2007)

DIESEL DAVE said:


> I`ll tell you now waterless is the way to go.
> I know these type of products have been out in one form or another for a long time without a lot of success but water wastage will be quite rightly outlawed in the future.


I think you are confusing the UK with somewhere that doesn't have enough water.


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Has anyone noticed how much water you use on an average sized car with a pressure washer? It's not as much as you would think!


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## The Sheriff (Jul 15, 2008)

And years ago everyone had baths, now they have showers. As for having a negative effect on the enviroment-I'm sure the amount detailers use, in general, is negligible.

I use a hose once a fortnight, to rinse suds off car.


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## spooks (Sep 7, 2009)

Clark said:


> Has anyone noticed how much water you use on an average sized car with a pressure washer? It's not as much as you would think!


It is if you wash the car 6 times to get it clean!!

And once its mixed in with a few chemicals where does it all end up?


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

spooks said:


> It is if you wash the car 6 times to get it clean!!
> 
> And once its mixed in with a few chemicals where does it all end up?


In the big black tank we pump all our wash water into :thumb:


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## spooks (Sep 7, 2009)

Clark said:


> In the big black tank we pump all our wash water into :thumb:


Damn, I knew you would come back with that, I forgot you wash your cars in a paddling pool!!

Is that waste water recycled when they take it away?

Out of interest, the decision to wash in this fashion, was it one you took out of conscience or because the landlord insisted?
Reason I ask is, so many landlords now wont allow valeting/detailing because of waste issues


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

spooks said:


> Damn, I knew you would come back with that, I forgot you wash your cars in a paddling pool!!
> 
> Is that waste water recycled when they take it away?
> 
> ...


Yes it's recycled when they take it away mate.

We have the system in place as it's part of the lease, there's no drainage system on the grounds so the Council insist on it - at the start I think they thought we were just a valeting business that would be doing "X" amount of cars every day, not a couple a week at a push.

I'd love to say it was a conscious decision on our behalf but I'm afraid that would be fibs lol! We now see it as a bonus as we're doing our bit for the environment I guess


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## spooks (Sep 7, 2009)

Clark said:


> We now see it as a bonus as we're doing our bit for the environment I guess


And I look forward to your first Ne plus ultra write up using a waterless wash!!!!:thumb:


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

spooks said:


> And I look forward to your first Ne plus ultra write up using a waterless wash!!!!:thumb:


Funnily enough, looking at the last one I just did (solid black Bentley Arnage - totally screwed paintwork!) you'd think it had already been done with waterless wash


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## spooks (Sep 7, 2009)

You could be right, it takes a couple of goes to get the hang of it!!!!!lol


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

For me, as long as I have a the option for using a pressure washer and plenty of water that's what I'll be sticking with. 

I've seen ONR in use and from what it seems the results are impressive so I can't knock it. I just struggle to understand how it's as safe as a full wash, especially on a really filthy car. 

For me ONR will be the last option or the kind of thing I'd use at a car show where the only dirt on the car will be from the journey to the show itself.


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## pugoman (Oct 27, 2005)

spooks said:


> The fact that products like ONR are becoming more popular at least shows some people are thinking about it


ONR certainly seems to be catching on, but I'd like to know how many ONR users are buying it because they want to save water and help the environment and how many are buying it just because they think it might save them some time and effort on their Saturday/Sunday detailing session.


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

i would say no one buy it to save water imo, maybe the odd one

reasons to use ONR; (imo)

-You live in a flat 
-You havent got a hose or outside tap
-Its quicker
-Its easier
-It cleans better than shampoo
-Its safe on paint when used correctly
-You can dry the car straight afetr and get no water spots
-You can clean your car safely virtually anywhere


The haters are the people who havent used it to, they claim it damages the paint before even using it themselves... i agree it is easy to get it wrong, but i think the risks are the same as using snow foam and a wool mitt.

i still use 2 buckets and a pre soak, unless the car hasnt been used and is just dusty.

edit: and as i can wash my car so quick i dont let it get as dirty as other people as i get out there as much as possible, so my car isnt ever that dirty... Obviously if there is dirt almost welded to the paint i would definately be using snow foam and a PW


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## Deanoecosse (Mar 15, 2007)

DIESEL DAVE said:


> There`s something obscene about people suffering on the other side of the world because of a lack of clean water while we waste/use it on keeping vehicles clean


There are many "obscene" comparisons in life though eg it's obscene the amount of food we simply throw in the bin in this country when people elsewhere have so little.

It's obscene that footballers get paid £150k a week when soldiers fighting to keep this country safe get so little.

It's obscene that someone paid $140 million dollars for a Jackson Pollock painting when people are living in cardboard boxes on the street.

It's obscene that some people would spend £8000 on a tub of car wax in a plastic tub when people in the world are going hungry.

It's obscene that Tiger Woods can hump loads of different women every week when Lloyd on this forum can't even get one:lol:

so, because there are people in the world, who don't have as much as us, should we stop drinking beer because it uses too much water?, stop eating so much food because some people don't have any?, buy a £5 plastic watch from Argos instead of the £2k Tag because that £2k could feed an African family for 2 years? where do we stop?


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Just to dd - I HAVE used it as Polished Bliss used to stock it, however we weren't satisifed that a marr free finish was guaranteed every time so we stopped selling it, I wouldnt comment on it if I hadnt have used it.

As i say, it has its uses but for us - it's not needed.


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## -ROM- (Feb 23, 2007)

Personally i don't care how much water i use to wash my car, it's not as if they'd pump it over to Africa if i didn't use it!


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

big ben said:


> The haters are the people who havent used it to, they claim it damages the paint before even using it themselves... i agree it is easy to get it wrong, but i think the risks are the same as using snow foam and a wool mitt.


I tested it out about 3-4 years ago before it was even being mentioned or thought of on the forum, it was ok but didn't satisfy me into thinking it could produce a safe wash method consistently, nor to the same level of clean as traditional methods.
It has it's place in the market for those with limited water supply etc..


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## spooks (Sep 7, 2009)

Clark said:


> we weren't satisifed that a marr free finish was guaranteed every time
> 
> As i say, it has its uses but for us - it's not needed.


I couldnt find the section on your site where you give the guarantee that using products that you sell leave a mar free finish!

Don't think you could guarantee that with any product, waterless or otherwise.:thumb:


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

spooks said:


> I couldnt find the section on your site where you give the guarantee that using products that you sell leave a mar free finish!
> 
> Don't think you could guarantee that with any product, waterless or otherwise.:thumb:


That's a fair point mate but I know which method leaves more room for error


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

spooks said:


> I couldnt find the section on your site where you give the guarantee that using products that you sell leave a mar free finish!
> 
> *Don't think you could guarantee that with any product, waterless or otherwise*.:thumb:


true, any detailer worth their salt knows that a totally defect free wash is impossible. using a foam lance, washmitt, two buckets etc etc only reduces the risks - and much more so than waterless products on very dirty cars imo


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

-Kev- said:


> true, any detailer worth their salt knows that a totally defect free wash is impossible. using a foam lance, washmitt, two buckets etc etc only reduces the risks - and much more so than waterless products on very dirty cars imo


A defect free wash is more than possible with the right process and products, otherwise what would be the point of hours and hours of paint correction just to be undone after the 1st wash?


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## DiscoDriver (Oct 27, 2009)

Well, Southern Water are installing meters and putting the price of the water supplied up in the summer so it's time for me to give ONR a go.


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## DiamondD (Feb 26, 2010)

yes it has it's advantages an disadvantages like any product out there. has anyone tried this i was going to use it on a detail i have setup for next week was wondering how it was.
http://www.nowet.com/images/nowet.wmv


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

DiscoDriver said:


> I'll keep my eyes open for that Ben :thumb:


PM me if your interested :thumb:


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## catch the pigeo (May 17, 2008)

Can any one who uses onr tell me how onr would get rid of grit
etc that gets trapped behind door trims and winsow rubbers etc


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

catch the pigeo said:


> Can any one who uses onr tell me how onr would get rid of grit
> etc that gets trapped behind door trims and winsow rubbers etc


not sure what you mean? i wouldnt use ONR for that by the sounds of it, clean it with a brush and a APC or citrus cleaner


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

I use ONR on my cars and have not noticed any extra marring/swirls etc. I like it because I can do both cars easily on a Saturday morning and then play with my kids.

I use it on one customers car as it is parked in a basement car park in Manchester and no water use is allowed, I don't have a problem using it on door shuts either.

But 99% of the time its the foam lance an PW. Also as Clarke said earlier a PW does not use as much water as you think, compared to an open hose.


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

if i did detailing for a living like you guys, i would be using the PW and snowfoam etc... it must feel like you are selling them short using ONR :lol:

its part of the service, and looks better to!! looks like your taking more care as it takes longer


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

I think if water was banned id chew my own foot and become a florist , ive got a rash appearing even thinking of this..


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

big ben said:


> PM me if your interested :thumb:


better still, put it in the for sale section.:thumb:


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

Deano said:


> better still, put it in the for sale section.:thumb:


ok, will do :thumb:


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

vxrmarc said:


> I think if water was banned id chew my own foot and become a florist , ive got a rash appearing even thinking of this..


Quality!!! :lol:


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

I thinking to try waterless wash , i will use waterless to remove light dust after one or two days from washing does he clean well as 2BM ?And do you think applying QD after waterless system can bring better result ?


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## DIESEL DAVE (Jul 26, 2007)

MAXI-MILAN said:


> I thinking to try waterless wash , i will use waterless to remove light dust after one or two days from washing does he clean well as 2BM ?And do you think applying QD after waterless system can bring better result ?


I think of and use most waterless wash products as QDs on steriods, ie for situations needing more than a QD but not needing an ONR or full on shampoo wash.


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## Relaited (Jan 27, 2009)

I love it when teh weekend warrior / enthusiast makes suggestions that the pros should use a pressure washer. 

Do you guys give technical advice to the plumber beacuse you tightened a fitting, or a doctro because yo apply a ban aid?

IMO, that is what is wrong with the industry


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## David.S (Dec 27, 2009)

I live in the countryside 
thick mud on car 
I think i would use more water cleaning the cloths after 
than i would use on the car

It would be good for getting the dust off


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

There was a scientist on the telly the other day saying there is as much water on the planet today as there was billions of years ago, it it something we can not get rid of. 

So yes ONR is a godsend for me at the weekend with a tasmanian devil 4 year old lad who loves hose pipes, but I still use the full snow foam wash every day for customers.

It will be the councils who ban waste water eventually, when I get my unit I will have a set up like Polished Bliss eventually.


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## Relaited (Jan 27, 2009)

Mirror Finish, your statement is very misleading. Most of the fresh water is locked up in glaciers, and the important water is potable water, that which you can drink.

And that is gettign contaminated. As population grows, there is less of it to go around and the energy associated with making it drinkable is growign fast.

Just wanted to make sure that the fact of same water as the dinasours is not a justification to waste or pollute.


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