# Heavy RDS in hard paint



## luke-m-j (Aug 29, 2008)

My Mini Cooper S has a white roof. I polished with Megs 83 on a 3M pad which removed most of the swirls but there are still loads and loads of RDS's so I stepped up to a Lake Country Blue cutting pad and Megs 105.

2 passes at speed 1 to spread then up/down with horizontal passes twice at speed 2.5 then left to right with vertical passes twice. Moisten with QD then the same again with a final once over at speed 1.

I just cannot seem to get rid of any more damage though, do I really need a woollen pad? Or should I try more polish or pressure? Slower passes?
I currently use 3 pea size drops per 1/6th of the roof. Very little additional pressure on the head of the rotary. Aiming for around 3" per second.

Am I doing it right? 

Thanks for your help


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## luke-m-j (Aug 29, 2008)




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## luke-m-j (Aug 29, 2008)




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## Paul.D (Jun 26, 2013)

What are you using DA or rotary?


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## luke-m-j (Aug 29, 2008)

Rotary


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

Too higher arm speed would require more passes/ time to get the correction. Try half an inch to one inch per second. Ditch the qd too. 

Forget foam, if you want better correction rate and a rid killer, try flexipads rayon via rotary or wool then remove the few rids with rayon.
Felt is good pad too


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## luke-m-j (Aug 29, 2008)

Without the QD it dries out after a couple of passes, is that a problem?


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Are you overly concerned about the RDS on the roof?

Not in direct eye view and to get down to them your taking the clear coat very thin or could even burn through, your clear coat is also yout U.V protection also.

The choice is yours but do you need to chase full correction, especially if a daily driver?

Do you have a paint Gauge?

You can get them out but just way up how much your removing in lacquer.


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## luke-m-j (Aug 29, 2008)

You could well be right tbh. It is a daily and I am by no means chasing perfection.
I don't have a PTG so going any/much further like you say could be dancing with the devil.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Are you sure its drying out, or is it just its not white on the panel anymore? Believe me 105 runs a lot longer than that, especially at such a slow speed

How hot does the panel get?


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## luke-m-j (Aug 29, 2008)

It goes clear and buffs off real easy which makes me think it's dry.

These Lake Country pads barely absorb any polish nor do they hold any moisture. Have you used the HydroTech pads?


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## Steampunk (Aug 11, 2011)

Here is an explanation of the Kevin Brown Method, and how to correctly prime the pad when using non-diminishing polishes and compounds like Meguiar's #105: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=3850157&postcount=4. This might help you extract the extra performance you need with the pads you currently have, and keep the compound from drying out so quickly, but a change of pad (Wool, or a stiffer foam than an LC Cyan; this is the only blue LC 'cutting' pad I am aware of.) may still be in order if the defects are extreme. However, as per some of the above comments, do proceed with caution...

Hopefully this helps, and if you have any more questions please feel free to ask. :buffer:

Steampunk


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

luke-m-j said:


> It goes clear and buffs off real easy which makes me think it's dry.
> 
> These Lake Country pads barely absorb any polish nor do they hold any moisture. Have you used the HydroTech pads?


Yes, they are closed cell and absorb very little. I think you may be stopping prematurely, try spreading at a speed of about 1000 rpm, and correcting at about 1200 to 1400. If you have spot pads, use those instead of polishing a big area to remove a small scratch, move freely and relax, and add a touch of pressure

DISCLAIMER: without knowing how many hits you have completed already, how many times its been polished before and no paint readings, i take hop responsibility should you break through the clear coat.
For what its worth, the remaining marks don't look to ugly imo, it may be worth having a nice refining set and just enjoying the 90% thats been achieved. Achieving and maintaining nigh on 100% is difficult at best, and a thankless task


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## luke-m-j (Aug 29, 2008)

Cool, thanks for the link, yeah the blue pad is correctly termed cyan 

These are the pads I'm using


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## luke-m-j (Aug 29, 2008)

stangalang said:


> Yes, they are closed cell and absorb very little. I think you may be stopping prematurely, try spreading at a speed of about 1000 rpm, and correcting at about 1200 to 1400. If you have spot pads, use those instead of polishing a big area to remove a small scratch, move freely and relax, and add a touch of pressure
> 
> DISCLAIMER: without knowing how many hits you have completed already, how many times its been polished before and no paint readings, i take hop responsibility should you break through the clear coat.
> For what its worth, the remaining marks don't look to ugly imo, it may be worth having a nice refining set and just enjoying the 90% thats been achieved. Achieving and maintaining nigh on 100% is difficult at best, and a thankless task


Thanks for the advice, when I've assumed it's dried and and reach for the QD the pad is slowing down and the tone changes and you can tell it's not gliding as well. I was kind of worried about it getting too hot and really doing some damage.

The pass speed I was using was largely based on trial and error. Where I am atm seems to warm the panel up nicely but I certainly wouldn't say hot... Sort of like a 45 minute old cuppa, tepid?


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

luke-m-j said:


> Without the QD it dries out after a couple of passes, is that a problem?


That's because the formula is rubbish. Solvents being the problem. 
You don't need solvents in polish anymore.

Qd has silicones/polymers which can effect the surface. You should not use water to prime a pad or during polishing as it washes away the lubricants.

Foam just doesn't cut it anymore as a cutting medium. Can do it but so much better with new pads like leather, felt, rayon, surbuf, microfiber, velvet and good old wool.


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## luke-m-j (Aug 29, 2008)

Hmmm nobody mentioned that when I was asking about new pads :/

Which pads do you like?


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

foam still has its place but microfibre is my default pad. I am a pad technology aficianado
felt is probably too hard core for newbies. Surbuf and microfibre are superb for correction
wool still has its place and does work on DA's and so do Rayons, get the soft rayons though, the hard rayons are dangerous in untrained hands

plenty of other pads out as well


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## Kevin Brown (May 10, 2008)

The formula is not "rubbish". That's a poor excuse for "advice".

Great advice on considering whether or not you should attempt to remove the defects 100% (save some paint for another day, or for a bigger problem down the road... Water spots, additional scour marks, bird droppings, etc.)

There are several things you can do to increase the rate of cut, one of them being to use an increased amount of M105. One of the reasons you're not achieving the degree of cut you desire is that the small amount of M105 you are using is becoming overrun with paint residue (this is the paint that has been scrubbed away during polishing). The residue encompasses the abrasive grains and slows their ability to cut, or stalls it altogether.

You do not necessarily need a wool pad, either! If you'll simply do as Steampunk has suggested, you might be absolutely stunned at the transformation. Stangalang also offers up excellent advice.

Did you know that many guys are now using Meguiar's M205 as a heavy-cut polish?! It's true! M205 is by no means considered a "beast" in terms of it's rated cut (it's rated at 4 out of 12 on Meguiar's cutting scale), but the formula stays very fluid & moist when an abundance is used. Granted, the work is being accomplished via Rupes BigFoot 21, which has a lot to do with M205 working so well. Still, it goes to show that the polishing procedure makes a LOT of difference. 

You have no desire to LEVEL the surface flat, correct?

Your goal is the removal of surface defects, correct?

Since you're not trying to minimize orange peel (nor are you wanting to make the paint surface as flat as a mirror in order to increase the accuracy of reflection), use additional buffing liquid to increase the amount of abrasives in play (thus increasing cut). If you choose to use wool, prime the pad by rubbing M105 into the wool until there's a very good likelihood that every single string has M105's abrasive grains attached to it. If you choose to use foam (an excellent idea), prime the face of the pad, and then use plenty of M105 so that it does not dry up (drying up isn't always an exhaustion of moisture; sometimes the moisture has become locked away into the pad because abrasive grains and paint residue have created a hard barrier between the pad and paint surface).

A spritz of water every now and then atop the paint surface (instead of the addition of more M105) will assist in loosening stuck-to-the-pad abrasives, allowing you to polish for an extended period of time before additional buffing liquid is needed.

Once satisfactory defect removal is achieved, refine the surface by using a fresh pad and bits of M105, or a dedicated final polish of your choosing (I prefer the oh-so outdated and ghastly Meguiar's M205).

By the way... Matt aka Dream Machines knows I am a fan of his, but we just don't see eye-to-eye on all things related to polishing. Passionate guy, great at what he does as well!

Don't get discouraged, don't over-polish, and don't go out and buy more liquids and pads just yet! Procedure, procedure, procedure. 

Which pads and machines are at your disposal?


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

I am just subscribing to keep referring to some excellent advice in here.


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## Kevin Brown (May 10, 2008)

Link to proper priming of a wool pad:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=1752025&postcount=4


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## luke-m-j (Aug 29, 2008)

Thanks for all of your advice guys. I've had another go on the roof trying to impart what advice has been given here but as has been mentioned it aint no show car. I'll leave some paint on there for another day.

Would a glaze be in order here to help hide what's left? I have some AG UDS and SRP which I think topped off with some 476 should leave a very nice finish correct?


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

luke-m-j said:


> Thanks for all of your advice guys. I've had another go on the roof trying to impart what advice has been given here but as has been mentioned it aint no show car. I'll leave some paint on there for another day.
> 
> Would a glaze be in order here to help hide what's left? I have some AG UDS and SRP which I think topped off with some 476 should leave a very nice finish correct?


SRP and the Collinate would work well, not tried UDS so cannot comment. Just as an aside, a paint thickness gauge can be a really helpful tool. I would still finish the job with something like 205 to increase the gloss of the paint


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## luke-m-j (Aug 29, 2008)

Anybody local to NG24 with a PTG they would like to try out ?

I've never used UDS either but a friend of mine has offered me it to try so it may be work a go.

I finished off after the 105 with 83 on a magenta LC HT pad so there are absolutely no machining marks


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

I would be tempted to try something like 205 or 80 on a test section to see if this would improve the gloss. If it works then you will have a shiner car if not you have simply lost 20 minutes


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## luke-m-j (Aug 29, 2008)

And another 30 notes 

I'll have a go with what I have first and take it from there


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

luke-m-j said:


> And another 30 notes
> 
> I'll have a go with what I have first and take it from there


Small bottle of 205 is about £10, this is more than enough to do several cars, but obviously nothing wrong with experimenting with what you have. 205 is such a lovely polish, yet to see a bad review of it.


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