# Wheels stuck to axle



## mawallace (Apr 18, 2017)

Took car into garage today and the front wheels were stuck to the axke. Took a lot of banging etc to get it off. 
The alloy wheels had were the culprit as they hadn't been off for a year. 
Any idea how this can be solved.


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## Streeto (Apr 3, 2008)

Copper grease on mating face between wheel and hub. After cleaning all the corrosion off.


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## mawallace (Apr 18, 2017)

Thanks for that. Someone told me that putting grease on them could cause problems with the wheels. 
What's the best way to apply it and presumably a light covering


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## Christian6984 (Dec 20, 2007)

mawallace said:


> Thanks for that. Someone told me that putting grease on them could cause problems with the wheels.
> What's the best way to apply it and presumably a light covering


Make sure its Copper Grease and not just regular stuff, yeah just a thin covering onto the hub is enough to suffice. Buy the one in a tub the aerosol stuff wont be as good. If there off regularly enough there not much bother. I have had one or two that have been bad, worst was one where owner seemingly lived on the brakes as the wheels were black and they were a right pain to get off, not sure if this contributes to making it worse to get off.


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## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

mawallace said:


> Thanks for that. Someone told me that putting grease on them could cause problems with the wheels.
> What's the best way to apply it and presumably a light covering


As above, a thin smear of copper grease where the alloy wheel hits the hub will stop this reoccurring - you should be able to pick up a small tube of it easily if you've nothing else to use it for...


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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

It's usually where the nose of the hub sits inside the wheel hub. Give the hub a good wire brush then a quick rub with a bit of emery cloth.

I'd just wipe a little grease around the lip of the hub with a finger, shouldn't need any at all on the actual face of the hub as it will tend to get squeezed and flung out and make a mess.

Remember to tighten the wheels back up to the recommended setting and not just wrench them on as hard as you can.


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

The best way is to use silicon grease on the hub nose and a light smear on the mating faces.
Preferably no copper grease / copaslip as you add another metal and increase galvanic corrosion. 
Good silicon grease is more than enough heat resistant (if you are not driving a race car with red glowing brake disc's

Copper grease or copaslip should be only used for steel on steel or cars iron on cast iron as the influence of galvanic corrosion will be negligible.


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## Kirkyworld (Jan 12, 2014)

I've used a small amount of copper slip on every car with alloy wheels I've ever owned. I've never had a wheel stuck on the hub since, never had the grease come out onto the wheels or had any corrosion issues at all.


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## Gaffa22 (Aug 24, 2014)

I agree with Caledonian copper slip is old hat and designed for steel.
It can react with some alloys and cause oxidation so why risk it when there are much better greases available.
ACF Corrosion block would be a far better option


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## RedUntilDead (Feb 10, 2009)

Copper grease is old school and yes, back in the day it was used for everything and with good results. Doesn't mean it's the correct method though an I bet on the back of the alloy wheel you will see a white coating forming, that's the galvanic corrosion :thumb:
Brake manufacturers do not recommend copper slip as most parts are aluminium.
Loads of other lubes out there.
The next old debate is lubing wheel stud/bolts. Some old boys used a bit of copper slip here too, for years and had no problems. Problem being though is that the recommended torque setting is a dry setting. The use of a lube here magnifies this.Well it would wouldn't it, you just added a lube.:thumb:


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## camerashy (Feb 9, 2014)

Interesting thread here.....thanks.
So which one is recommended silicone grease or ACF corrosion block


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## nbray67 (Mar 22, 2012)

Caledoniandream said:


> The best way is to use silicon grease on the hub nose and a light smear on the mating faces.
> Preferably no copper grease / copaslip as you add another metal and increase galvanic corrosion.
> Good silicon grease is more than enough heat resistant (if you are not driving a race car with red glowing brake disc's
> 
> Copper grease or copaslip should be only used for steel on steel or cars iron on cast iron as the influence of galvanic corrosion will be negligible.


Great shout that pal as I applied a thin slither of Copperslip to my hubs on a brand new car in March this year and found the rears were stuck when I came to change over my wheels to the winters a few weeks ago.

I cleaned up the hubs and reapplied the Copperslip again,now causing the same issue as before I see now after reading this.

Thankfully, these wheels will be off again shortly so I'll obtain some silicone grease prior to that and use that in future.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Also worth getting a dead blow hammer should you encounter any problems in the future


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

> The next old debate is lubing wheel stud/bolts. Some old boys used a bit of copper slip here too, for years and had no problems. Problem being though is that the recommended torque setting is a dry setting. The use of a lube here magnifies this.Well it would wouldn't it, you just added a lube.


I used to own a MG Midget with rostyle wheels. As soon as the steel bolt touched the alloy it would lock. It didn't matter how much force was applied the bolts would not move.
Unfortunately it also meant they came undone whilst driving.

They needed some lubrication to allow the steel to slip against the alloy.

On my current car I just leave two bolts in on the last few threads and hit the inside of the tyre with a rubber mallet.

Recommendation please for the silicone grease you are using?


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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

I would imagine cerratex grease designed to lubricate the edges of brake pads to stop them sticking in the calipers would be ideal on hubs. It's designed to resist high temperatures and prevent corrosion between the steel pad backplates and cast and alloy calipers.


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

Andy from Sandy said:


> I used to own a MG Midget with rostyle wheels. As soon as the steel bolt touched the alloy it would lock. It didn't matter how much force was applied the bolts would not move.
> Unfortunately it also meant they came undone whilst driving.
> 
> They needed some lubrication to allow the steel to slip against the alloy.
> ...


I use Liqui moly silicon fett, plenty places to get from, eBay , and many car electricians.


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## mirdif64 (Aug 23, 2007)

Gaffa22 said:


> I agree with Caledonian copper slip is old hat and designed for steel.
> It can react with some alloys and cause oxidation so why risk it when there are much better greases available.
> ACF Corrosion block would be a far better option


Nippy Norman's stock ACF grease. Free postage if you order before 01 Jan.


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## mawallace (Apr 18, 2017)

how do you apply this - with a brush?


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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

It's the same if you have brembo calipers. Stainless pins in aluminium calipers they corrode together. Silicone is waterproof where as copper grease isn't


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## camerashy (Feb 9, 2014)

mirdif64 said:


> Nippy Norman's stock ACF grease. Free postage if you order before 01 Jan.


Thanks just ordered


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## GTIRed (Jan 12, 2007)

interesting article I happened to stumble across a few weeks ago on this subject.

https://textar-professional.com/textar-training-center/the-use-of-copper-grease-on-modern-brakes/


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## Streeto (Apr 3, 2008)

Caledoniandream said:


> The best way is to use silicon grease on the hub nose and a light smear on the mating faces.
> Preferably no copper grease / copaslip as you add another metal and increase galvanic corrosion.
> Good silicon grease is more than enough heat resistant (if you are not driving a race car with red glowing brake disc's
> 
> Copper grease or copaslip should be only used for steel on steel or cars iron on cast iron as the influence of galvanic corrosion will be negligible.


I've always used copper grease or 'never sieze' but that is an interesting point about the copper grease inhibiting corrosion. Thankyou


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## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

Very helpful thread and I'll not be using copper grease anymore!

Messaged a chap I've bought from before on the Bay and he cane back with a suggestion of aluminium graphite anti seize paste. From the description it sounds perfect and having chatted to this guy before he knows his stuff and then some.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/391937768282


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## SadlyDistracted (Jan 18, 2013)

Caledoniandream said:


> The best way is to use silicon grease on the hub nose and a light smear on the mating faces.
> Preferably no copper grease / copaslip as you add another metal and increase galvanic corrosion.
> Good silicon grease is more than enough heat resistant (if you are not driving a race car with red glowing brake disc's
> 
> Copper grease or copaslip should be only used for steel on steel or cars iron on cast iron as the influence of galvanic corrosion will be negligible.


 :thumb:

I too believe coppaslip etc should not be used on alloys to steel due to the dissimilar metals problems. Not thought of silicone grease (due to not having any in a tin, only spray, but what I have used is cerratec - a good heatproof 'solid' grease.


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## Forsh (Jun 13, 2014)

GTIRed said:


> interesting article I happened to stumble across a few weeks ago on this subject.
> 
> https://textar-professional.com/textar-training-center/the-use-of-copper-grease-on-modern-brakes/


After reading that very article a few weeks ago too, I bought this...

https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4l/p/-/-/-/-/?526770250&0&cc5_150
£2.79 with "xmas" code

Additional interesting point in the sales pitch...



> _0% Copper content ensure no interferance with ABS sensors_


some more DW reading on the subject...

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=400925

Will be good for evil alloy valve caps too - I don't know why I keep using them!


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## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

Re silicone grease, I'm told from my man in the know that "silicone will protect from water but has no strength to protect from fretting. Even though wheels are bolted tight against the hub you still have vibration and lots of it. This alone attacks the alloys due to them being the softer of the two mating metals."


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

MDC250 said:


> Re silicone grease, I'm told from my man in the know that "silicone will protect from water but has no strength to protect from fretting. Even though wheels are bolted tight against the hub you still have vibration and lots of it. This alone attacks the alloys due to them being the softer of the two mating metals."


A wheel "should" not be fretting as it means it's not tight enough.
We are using silicone grease on the Alcoa's on our trucks to avoid that they are stuck (up to 10 ton per axle ) never had any fretting as the wheel would wear rapidly and become loose. 
The wheel and flange should move as one object ( like welded together) hence the reason that they seize.

This is one of the most important reasons to make sure your mating surfaces are clean and free of thick paint ( brushed on or several layers) we just smear it lightly with silicone grease with a little brush or with my fingers on the car.


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## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

Caledoniandream said:


> A wheel "should" not be fretting as it means it's not tight enough.
> 
> We are using silicone grease on the Alcoa's on our trucks to avoid that they are stuck (up to 10 ton per axle ) never had any fretting as the wheel would wear rapidly and become loose.
> 
> ...


What you say makes perfect sense to me. A wheel torqued to the right setting should as you say have virtually no, if any movement. As you've no doubt picked up on, I'm far from expert but it seems to me thinking about it that you couldn't fully negate all movement? think that's why the aluminium graphite has been suggested over the silicone. End of the day if the silicone works for you and it clearly does then that's all that matters. I'm just feeding back what I've been advised and it's then down to people to take from that what they want. I should stress I've got no affiliation whatsoever to the seller of the product I linked.

As he sells both silicone grease and aluminium graphite and has no reason to suggest one over the other, save for he thinks it's the right product for the job I'm giving the latter a go. Either way it has (fingers crossed!) got to be better than using the previous copper grease.


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## Frog (Jun 28, 2013)

Vehicle manufacturers will gives specifics on whether to lube the nut/bolts or not. The product to use on modern vehicles is a ceramic based grease such as Mintex Ceretex (as mentioned by someone else), this should be sparingly smeared around the hub spigot and not on the mating faces.


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

Silicone grease is not used for it’s “lubricating” qualities but for it’s insulating properties.
It insulated the contact surfaces from the electricity created by the galvanic corrosion, and that way stopping the galvanic corrosion from happening. 
Hence the reason to use it thinly on the matting surfaces.


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## nbray67 (Mar 22, 2012)

Forsh said:


> After reading that very article a few weeks ago too, I bought this...
> 
> https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4l/p/-/-/-/-/?526770250&0&cc5_150
> £2.79 with "xmas" code


Thanks for that pal, just ordered some for when I put the summer wheels back on in a few weeks.


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## nbray67 (Mar 22, 2012)

nbray67 said:


> Thanks for that pal, just ordered some for when I put the summer wheels back on in a few weeks.


After seeing a 50% offer from ECP, it's only £2 on there incl delivery if anyone is interested.


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

Just a bit of a warning (yes I have a fetish with wheels always worried that they come loose or don’t come off at all:lol::lol 
Be VERY careful with lubricating wheel nuts / bolts and their mating faces.
As said here before most manufacturers state torque settings for dry threads, lubricating the treads can multiply the force on your wheels, with chances that your mating faces dig too deep in your alloys, or deforming flanges and brake discs, causing vibrations when braking. 

When I was an apprentice in truck mechanic (40years ago) we where teached only to use old engine oil for wheel nut threads as the additives in new oil would lubricate the treads to much and causing the bust to become undone.
This was the times that trucks had different threads on the off-side than on the near side (near side had left handed thread) 

Knowledge and technology have become so much more advanced in the years and even in truck wheels are now torqued up with dry threads.


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## RedUntilDead (Feb 10, 2009)

Andy from Sandy said:


> I used to own a MG Midget with rostyle wheels. As soon as the steel bolt touched the alloy it would lock. It didn't matter how much force was applied the bolts would not move.
> Unfortunately it also meant they came undone whilst driving.
> 
> They needed some lubrication to allow the steel to slip against the alloy.
> ...


I clean the mating surfaces of discs, hubs and wheels and assemble dry.
Lots of publications in the auto trade about wheel and brake vibrations due to new discs/pads when in fact the problem has been poorly seated discs and wheels due to lack of prep, cleanliness. Excess lube can attract debri or can't be forced out and mating joints don't seat flush.
I service my own cars and regularly make and brake these joints so I know they will come apart. Not everyone will do this I know.
Wheel nuts and studs, clean and dry only and dry torque. 
I have worked in moulding and used a few anti seize compounds which I trust to work and are suitable for dissimilar metals in extreme conditions . I will use a smear of one of these on things like calliper pins, hub centre. Never bought a specific product myself:driver:

My old man (65) was a mechanic turned heavy plant fitter working on the motorways and they only applied a light smear with your finger of copper slip. Sometimes wheel studs got a bit but that depended on which machine it was. Copper slip was the norm back in the day. Vans and cars in the fleet always had dry wheel studs.


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## nbray67 (Mar 22, 2012)

nbray67 said:


> Thanks for that pal, just ordered some for when I put the summer wheels back on in a few weeks.





nbray67 said:


> After seeing a 50% offer from ECP, it's only £2 on there incl delivery if anyone is interested.


I was just about to email CPL as I've never rec'd the goods. Just checked paypal to find no payment sent so I logged into CPL to find it still in my basket!! Old age and all that.

Bit of a bonus as I've just ordered via ECP instead for £2 delivered!!

Definitely checked out this time.


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## ianrobbo1 (Feb 13, 2007)

I'm a big fan of ACF lubricants, the high temperature grease in this case, should be used sparingly "less is more" and certainly not on the wheel nuts, I've lightly used this grease on plenty of cars, and had no problems getting the things off or them coming loose!!


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