# pump sprayer pre washing



## bidderman1969

what would you guys use in a pump sprayer for pre-washing?


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## Forsh

BH Auto foam

end of thread!


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## AndyN01

Absolutely agree with Forsh.

Andy.


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## riskypicker

I have diluted TFR in a pump sprayer that i use on my folks cars that are badly soiled by the time i get them.


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## Nidge76

^ What Forsh said. 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk


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## Andyblue

I’ve used BH Auto foam and it works well. 

Also used Power Maxed and this works very well as well.


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## ENEP

For the moment BH Surfex HD.

I've not tried BH Auto Foam yet, but will most likely give it a go when I run out of Surfex HD. Seen reports of Auto Foam outperforming Surfex as a pre wash via pump sprayer.


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## Derek Mc

Forsh said:


> BH Auto foam
> 
> end of thread!


My foam lance is gathering dust because of this revalation!


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## Derekh929

SN lance what's that sound medieval ?? left the pack years ago and pump sprayler Marolex all the way they last and last so long and work very well, and I also use the BH AF and over winter never need to wash the car at all with carpro CQuartz on it


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## Imprezaworks

Pump sprayer as in like a garden weed sprayer from b&q etc?

So no need for a lance?


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## bidderman1969

Forsh said:


> BH Auto foam
> 
> end of thread!


think i have this, what ratio do you recommend?


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## Forsh

BH say 4% no reason to deviate


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## bidderman1969

Forsh said:


> BH say 4% no reason to deviate


so 4ml of BH to 100 ml of water ?

or 4ml BH 96ml water?


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## Forsh

4ml to 96ml water 

actually anywhere between 1 to 5 % ...



BH said:


> Dilute as required to obtain a PIR (panel impact ratio) of between 1:100 and 5:100


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## bidderman1969

cheers, I'm gonna try exact measurements for stuff nowadays, used to kinda guess, :lol:


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## TonyHill

Careful in this hot weather though. Let it dry at your peril!
Keep it cool and out of the sun :thumb:


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## Forsh

Imprezaworks said:


> Pump sprayer as in like a garden weed sprayer from b&q etc?
> 
> So no need for a lance?


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chemical...521120&hash=item20ef3c008c:g:SLgAAOSwQJ5USr8Q

5 litre or a 2 litre or anything that can spray the diluted solution on to the car to 'wet' the surface - beyond that you're wasting it


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## Forsh

TonyHill said:


> Careful in this hot weather though. Let it dry at your peril!
> Keep it cool and out of the sun :thumb:


I've had the sunny side of the car dry and when jet washed it foams up slightly as it rinses off but no issues with any staining


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## garycha

bidderman1969 said:


> what would you guys use in a pump sprayer for pre-washing?


I have one pump full of BH AF @10% dilution, then another full of VP Citrus Pre Wash @ 20% dilution.

The Citrus gets used after snow foam and rinse in winter, to get the real crud off.

Then it gets used before the SF in summer, in order to pre soften the bugs on front end. SF stops it drying out too soon.


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## Sam6er

BH Autofoam, KC Greenstar, M&K Snow are the 3 i use alot via a pump sprayer. Iv stopped using my snow foam lance all together.


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## Derek Mc

Forsh said:


> BH say 4% no reason to deviate


Spot on that's what I use in a 2,500ml spray bottle and it is better than any foam lance version I have tried yet!
I did find that VP Ph Neutral foam was best in the lance and poor in the spray bottle however.


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## GleemSpray

ENEP said:


> For the moment BH Surfex HD.
> 
> I've not tried BH Auto Foam yet, but will most likely give it a go when I run out of Surfex HD. Seen reports of Auto Foam outperforming Surfex as a pre wash via pump sprayer.


My understanding after reading comments from BH themselves in the past, is that Surfex and AutoFoam are similar products, but Surfex is intended to be a general de-greaser, wheras AutoFoam is a foamy product that is tweaked for removing general dirt that you find on cars.

I have used them both for many years and they are both epic as pre-sprays, but i think AutoFoam definately has a slight edge in terms of just making the dirt slide off without any touching.

They actually mix together very well, if you want to create a mega-pre-spray for quick cleaning daily drivers .... removes all the crud like nothing else if you use AutoFoam with a splash of added Surfex.

Other than that, to answer the origonal thread question, my order of pump-sprayer greatness is:

1) Autofoam

2) Powermax TFR joint second with Surfex

3) PowerMax Snow Foam via pump sprayer ( it seems to be just a foamy version of their TFR and i have 5L to use up ... )

4) Any household APC .... and my favourite for all car jobs is Stardrops Classic - a truly epic cleaning product that wont stain trim and plastics.


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## olliewills

BH auto-foam (80m) and BH Surfex (20ml) in a Wilko's 2l pump sprayer with warm water is a winning combo! If your car is only lightly dirty you can skip the Surfex and it still works great. Doing things this way is also ridiculously economical.


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## BarryAllen

I just use ordinary Wash and Wax solution at about 1:15 in warm water 

Leave it for 10 mins then wash by hand. Seems to lubricate nicely.


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## fatdazza

BarryAllen said:


> I just use ordinary Wash and Wax solution at about 1:15 in warm water
> 
> Leave it for 10 mins then wash by hand. Seems to lubricate nicely.


Are you saying you don't rinse the solution off before washing?

The whole point of a pre wash (whether that be applied by sprayer or foam lance) is to remove as much dirt as possible before touching the paint (i.e. to avoid rubbing the dirt into the paint when you wash with a mitt)

So, apply pre wash, rinse (or pressure wash), then wash with mitt.


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## BarryAllen

Rinse down with hose on stream mode. It's no power wash but I couldn't be bothered with the faffing about 

Spray with the concentrated wash and wax (Simoniz)... this is going to sound weird but the mix is slippery/silky.

Leave to dwell... wash with mitt and bucket of properly diluted wash and wax.

My take on a waterless wash if you like.... with the spray mix encapsulating the dirt. 

Like I said, adds a nice lubricity. Far from perfect I know, but I'm sceptical of those pre-washes and effect on lsp's... whatever their claims. What is it that Mike Phillips says ? If you ain't adding anything you must be taking it away (something like that)


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## fatdazza

personally I would spray the mix onto the car to soften and loosen and dirt, then rinse then wash.


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## Summit Detailing

Autosmart Hazsafe and some Gtechniq W5 added in the winter for extra bite.

cheers

Chris


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## Tyrefitter

I tried the BHAF in a pump sprayer yesterday when it was slightly raining & by the time I’d done one side of the car the other had dried on,,I mixed it 200ml af to 5 litres of water.

Andy.


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## ParaJack

Exactly what Forsh said, I use 80ml of BH Auto foam and top up to 2 litre with hot water, spray on the car and jet wash off...job done. 

Using a garden pump sprayer btw!


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## Tyrefitter

ParaJack said:


> Exactly what Forsh said, I use 80ml of BH Auto foam and top up to 2 litre with hot water, spray on the car and jet wash off...job done.
> 
> Using a garden pump sprayer btw!


How long do you leave it on the car before power washing off.?

Andy


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## tosh

shy-talk said:


> How long do you leave it on the car before power washing off.?
> 
> Andy


Before it dries; depends on the weather
At the moment, go around the car with the sprayer, and wait with the pressure washer where I started. Then wash it off when it's ready.

I have to do mine in the shade, so where my car is parked, after 6pm

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Coupe25

Has anyone tried this hack to produce more foam?


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## Forsh

I think I might give that a try

I suspect it will have to be a VERY small hole in the suction pipe otherwise the pressure will quickly escape


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## Coupe25

Forsh said:


> I think I might give that a try
> 
> I suspect it will have to be a VERY small hole in the suction pipe otherwise the pressure will quickly escape


I'd guess try a needle (3 or 4 holes), if no joy, the smallest jewellers screwdriver you can find. But the results appear to speak for themselves


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## Timbo84

I've got a ik 6 litre pump sprayer works brill with bh auto foam, just do half a car at a time as it dries out rapid! Cant fault the stuff and super economical


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## Clean-my-sxi

Coupe25 said:


> Has anyone tried this hack to produce more foam?
> 
> How To Turn a Garden Pump Sprayer Into a FOAM CANNON Hack | DIY - YouTube


If anything it looks like its struggling to spray the product on as good as it did first of all


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## Coupe25

Clean-my-sxi said:


> If anything it looks like its struggling to spray the product on as good as it did first of all


Maybe but the result is more foam, seems a lot in the comments have experinced the same


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## Coupe25

I got a new Wilko hand pump sprayer but I think its defective. On the nozzle it has 2 small holes and just squirts water out of them, it doesnt mist or anything. Also I cant see how its supposed to be adjusted, help?


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## Tyrefitter

Coupe25 said:


> I got a new Wilko hand pump sprayer but I think its defective. On the nozzle it has 2 small holes and just squirts water out of them, it doesnt mist or anything. Also I cant see how its supposed to be adjusted, help?


It looks like their is something missing off the end that screws on.

Andy


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## Coupe25

Typical wilko, back it goes then thanks


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## Forsh




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## GleemSpray

Clean-my-sxi said:


> If anything it looks like its struggling to spray the product on as good as it did first of all


 In order to produce foam, you need to introduce a lot of high pressure air to the mixing nozzle - which is what proper foam lances do - there are tiny pin holes in the brass body which use the high water pressure to suck air in from the outside and mix it with the water & product simultaneously to produce big volumes of foamy spray.

When garden pump sprayers are running out of liquid, they accidently suck some of the pressurised air through the pipe from the spray bottle, which is why you often get a foam effect for the last few seconds, just as it is running out of mix.

Dedicated pump foam sprayers are the same as an ordinary pump sprayer, except they have a secondary pickup tube to allow some of the pressurised air to enter the nozzle at the mixing point - this has the disadvantage of using all the air quickly, which is why you have to keep pumping and pumping with foam sprayers.

Personally, i think the fine mist produced by a garden sprayer seems to cling and dwell almost as long as proper foam on car paintwork ?


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## Andyblue

Coupe25 said:


> I got a new Wilko hand pump sprayer but I think its defective. On the nozzle it has 2 small holes and just squirts water out of them, it doesnt mist or anything. Also I cant see how its supposed to be adjusted, help?


Should have a plastic / metal collar on the end - which you can adjust / twist to give a spray to mist :thumb:


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## Coupe25

GleemSpray said:


> In order to produce foam, you need to introduce a lot of high pressure air to the mixing nozzle - which is what proper foam lances do - there are tiny pin holes in the brass body which use the high water pressure to suck air in from the outside and mix it with the water & product simultaneously to produce big volumes of foamy spray.
> 
> When garden pump sprayers are running out of liquid, they accidently suck some of the pressurised air through the pipe from the spray bottle, which is why you often get a foam effect for the last few seconds, just as it is running out of mix.
> 
> Dedicated pump foam sprayers are the same as an ordinary pump sprayer, except they have a secondary pickup tube to allow some of the pressurised air to enter the nozzle at the mixing point - this has the disadvantage of using all the air quickly, which is why you have to keep pumping and pumping with foam sprayers.
> 
> Personally, i think the fine mist produced by a garden sprayer seems to cling and dwell almost as long as proper foam on car paintwork ?


Insightful. if that is the case perhaps a few pinholes in the tube would work best rather than one hole from a knife. Worst comes to worst just tape up the holes and use as normal? I'll try it on mine once I exchange it for a new one (or 2) at 3.50 each.
That said ive ordered Auto Foam which doesnt foam much anyway


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## Forsh

Coupe25 said:


> Worst comes to worst just tape up the holes and use as normal?


Or I was thinking put the holes as high up the pipe as you can and if it doen't work pull the pipe out and turn it round so the holes are at the bottom


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## Coupe25

Forsh said:


> Or I was thinking put the holes as high up the pipe as you can and if it doen't work pull the pipe out and turn it round so the holes are at the bottom


If it works, theres a market to make money there. Make the modifications on a bunch of Wilko sprayers, sell it as a 'hand held pump action foam cannon', and sell it for just under the competitions price :lol:


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## Man1c_M0nk3y

What size pump bottle are people using for this then? 

2l or 5l?

I’ll be using on a Ford Focus. Would the 2l be big enough or will I need to mix twice to finish the car. 

Looking to buy soon as unfortunately have no means of using a hose or pressure washer. 

Thinking of picking up an 8l too for rinsing. 

Was toying with the idea of two 2l pumps one with TFR and one with SF. Needless? As a complete noob appreciate any guidance.


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## HEADPHONES

I find a 2 litre sprayer enough to do a Kia Sportage so I reckon a Focus is no problem.
Initially I bought a 5 litre one but never use it now as the 2 litre one is far more convenient.


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## Man1c_M0nk3y

Cheers. Before I order then. Is there any real/noticeable benefit to using something like the Mesto version vs a normal sprayer from a b&q etc other than the price difference?


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## \Rian

Coupe25 said:


> If it works, theres a market to make money there. Make the modifications on a bunch of Wilko sprayers, sell it as a 'hand held pump action foam cannon', and sell it for just under the competitions price :lol:


I have made a cheap pump sprayer foam successfully, you will need to put some pin holes in your tube and also you NEED A FOAMING HEAD this one fits mine and it foam !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.kwazar.co.uk/811/Foaming-Tip-Orion-6L-Foamer


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## dannyd21

Rian said:


> I have made a cheap pump sprayer foam successfully, you will need to put some pin holes in your tube and also you NEED A FOAMING HEAD this one fits mine and it foam !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> https://www.kwazar.co.uk/811/Foaming-Tip-Orion-6L-Foamer


What pump sprayer did you use that on?


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## BradleyW

Power Maxed and BH are good to use with a foam pump sprayer. 
iK and Gloria make some great snow foam sprayers!


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## GleemSpray

Coupe25 said:


> If it works, theres a market to make money there. Make the modifications on a bunch of Wilko sprayers, sell it as a 'hand held pump action foam cannon', and sell it for just under the competitions price :lol:


Isn't there easier money to be made just buying trade sizes of product and decanting into fancy bottles with fancy labels ? (remembering of course to change the product in some small way to make it "_exclusively hand-crafted in limited numbers_") :doublesho

You could of course sell it as part of an "_optimised cleansing process_" alongside your idea of the "_ nano foam paint nourishing spray spa applicator_ " :lol::lol:


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## Peter_222

Just started using Koch Chemie GS diluted 1:15 in a Kwazar Orion 6 litre pump sprayer. Admittedly my car is never that dirty but it done the job better than snow foam and didn’t seem to weaken the LSP. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## \Rian

dannyd21 said:


> What pump sprayer did you use that on?


One like this but it came from screwfix

http://bghcardiff.co.uk/product/pressure-pump-sprayer-7l/

In my experience all the poles are the same size, ive had 3 and all the same size.


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## indianbelters

Is is ceramic coating safe?


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## iannidan

Have a read of this regards dilution through a pump sprayer and lance/pressure washer.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=400542


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## tehvlb

GleemSpray said:


> My understanding after reading comments from BH themselves in the past, is that Surfex and AutoFoam are similar products, but Surfex is intended to be a general de-greaser, wheras AutoFoam is a foamy product that is tweaked for removing general dirt that you find on cars.
> 
> I have used them both for many years and they are both epic as pre-sprays, but i think AutoFoam definately has a slight edge in terms of just making the dirt slide off without any touching.
> 
> They actually mix together very well, if you want to create a mega-pre-spray for quick cleaning daily drivers .... removes all the crud like nothing else if you use AutoFoam with a splash of added Surfex.
> 
> Other than that, to answer the origonal thread question, my order of pump-sprayer greatness is:
> 
> 1) Autofoam
> 
> 2) Powermax TFR joint second with Surfex
> 
> 3) PowerMax Snow Foam via pump sprayer ( it seems to be just a foamy version of their TFR and i have 5L to use up ... )
> 
> 4) Any household APC .... and my favourite for all car jobs is Stardrops Classic - a truly epic cleaning product that wont stain trim and plastics.


this is what i do, 4.8 litres of water, 200ml of BH AF and 50ml of BH Surfex HD.

its a greaty mix


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## Pook

Another vote for BH AF, I have used VPCW which was also good but I find the BH slightly better.


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## SteveMGF

Man1c_M0nk3y said:


> Cheers. Before I order then. Is there any real/noticeable benefit to using something like the Mesto version vs a normal sprayer from a b&q etc other than the price difference?


I'd also like to hear opinions on which pump sprayer to opt for. I've also been looking at the Mesto Foamer. Seen some videos and looks like it works quite well, although lots of pumping required in between use. The other thing is capacity. The Mesto is only 1.5L - is that sufficient? - I'd be cleaning a Jaguar XF (monster size) and a MGF Convertible (dinky size) and would think I will be ok on the MGF but think the Jag would require a refill.

Any other options on a decent, larger capacity 'dedicated' pump for foaming?


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## Forsh

1.5L should do both with some left over.
With BH AutoFoam you're only looking to wet the surface and with the nozzle set to a fine mist, it goes a long way

(^^^ using a standard pump sprayer)


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## Woodsmoke

I use a Gloria FM10 on medium foam nozzle with 4% BHAF so I still get some foam.. You don't need it.. but it just makes people stop and go ooooo which i think is funny


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## mar00

i've tried two different hand foamers and both went back, need pumping every few seconds, i got one of these,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B013T16IWA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

does the whole car and needs pumping 2-3 times, you don't get the same foam but gets a really good even covering with BH AF and seems to clean better than the foamers,


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## ollienoclue

Was ardent BH foam user.

Now putting Koch chemie greenstar through my autobrite lance. Works a treat and clings as well as BH autofoam.


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## delta0

I’ve been using Koch chemie green star for a couple of years now since moving on from snow foam. My chemie is getting low so I’m weighing the best options now. BH Surfex is tempting as is Autofoam. What is the best now?


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## Fairtony

delta0 said:


> I've been using Koch chemie green star for a couple of years now since moving on from snow foam. My chemie is getting low so I'm weighing the best options now. BH Surfex is tempting as is Autofoam. What is the best now?


still Autofoam.
<end of thread>


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## Titanium Htail

I have a white foam head on my 32oz bottle which is hard work for the full car, my Mesto @1.5 is still better it produces a constant workable foam spray, if you do it in small sections between pumps that decrease in ongoing pressure is less important. Yes it will do a whole car as mentioned with the right ratio plus warm water it works fine. The bigger 2ltr #AS pumps do not have sufficient pressure of the foaming head.

In time alone using the Mesto by the time I have set my PW with extensions or otherwise this seems far simpler. Is it effective it may be better to do by adjacent sections as if you try to do the whole car the initial start has been sitting for longer that the allotted time which can be an issue. Needs shade to assist in the overall process.

A great tool..

John Tht.


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## SteveMGF

Finally got around to trying out my Mesto 1.5l Foamer with BH AutoFoam today. First attempt was a bit lack lustre in terms of suds. I removed all but 1 of the yellow foam discs and mixed up 1.5l warm water with 60ml BHAF. The suds just did not want to stay on the car in any kind of thick layer. Dunno if it was because the car was very clean anyway with wax, but I decided to have a fiddle with the nozzle.

I decided to use two discs, but also added some plastic tubing, roughly the diameter of the nozzle, inserted into the nozzle - primarily to keep the discs at the right position.



















I then put one yellow disc either end of the tubing to keep one disc either end and reassembled.










Seemed to foam much better, but I still might tinker with it a bit. I'm not sure if the video I shot below is sufficient in the foaming/clinging department.....what do you guys think?


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## Fairtony

Are you sure you got the dilution right? I use the exact same sprayer , as stock, with 3 pads and get much much better foaming. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SteveMGF

Yep. 60ml of AF 1500ml warm water. That’s about 4% at 4ml of AF to 100ml water, right?

If your using three discs, that might be the difference. One disc was a bit poor, I found. Still not over happy with the two in the video but I’m experimenting right now. Will try more combo’s soon to see what works but can’t help thinking the foam should be thicker and clingier......


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## Titanium Htail

Yes that consistency looks thin, it is a case of trial and error as each product performs in a specific way.

Although some might say you are getting the product on you can see where you started, better to start at the top side to side so the weight itself draws the product down. Keep the thickness constant can require additional pump as you go along which is only technique. Good for doing section to work on from a clean basis.

Good luck

John Tht.


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## SteveMGF

Well, I played around a bit more this morning. I did away with my "mod" and tried 2,3 and 4 yellow foam discs. I think the latter was obviously the best, but as mentioned before, the car was clean and had a good protective layer of AG HD Wax on it. I thought that might account for the foam slipping off quite quickly. Anyway, for comparison, another video....






I also emailed BH last night, sent a link to this thread and my video, and received a very comprehensive reply from Pete (Mr Hamber, the man himself!) which put my mind at ease somewhat. I don't think he would mind me pasting a snippet in here, so here goes



> Hi Stephen,
> 
> This is exactly what to expect on a waxed surface, and the foam level is what I like to see - it's allowing you to see where you've applied but swiftly breaking leaving the surface wet. These foamer pumps vary a lot from one to another and its only by adding air that the foam in generated but I really like the way you have this set up though if you had more foam it would be detrimental to the cleaning power. I think if your car was dirty you would be very pleased with the results after PW.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Pete


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