# Snow Foaming



## rob2278 (Jul 18, 2009)

Snow foaming, do you foam on a wet or dry car?

On another Detailing platform there is a constant battle going on trying to prove which method is correct, just after peoples thoughts on here. 

Thanks.


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## macca666 (Mar 30, 2010)

It's been discussed on here many times before as well Rob IIRC it's pretty much a mixed bag with some saying dry others saying wet.

Me personally I go dry thinking that if it's a wet surface it will dilute the product and i jetwash it off so for me I don't see the need to wet the vehicle first.


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## mcflycossie (May 8, 2007)

I have always put it on dry as I feel wetting first does not allow the foam to cling and break up the dirt as much.


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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

Dry surface makes sense as the foam has something to cling onto ( grime ) whilst doing it's job.


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## bigbruiser (Apr 16, 2016)

rob2278 said:


> On another Detailing platform
> Thanks.


Wait what there is another ?:thumb::doublesho


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Actual video evidence out there that confirms rinsing the car with a pressure washer prior to snow foaming improves cleaning ability.

Its really just common sense... you are removing the top layer of loose dirt when pressure rinising the car. This in turn allows the snow foam to soak into the properly embedded dirt underneath and loosen it before rinsing away. Been shown in several videos to be 100% true regardless of a wet panel etc. 

You don't use fallout remover on a dirty wheel when decontaminating them, the same applies here to pre-washing/foaming.

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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

Brian1612 said:


> Actual video evidence out there that confirms rinsing the car with a pressure washer prior to snow foaming improves cleaning ability.
> 
> Its really just common sense... you are removing the top layer of loose dirt when pressure rinising the car. This in turn allows the snow foam to soak into the properly embedded dirt underneath and loosen it before rinsing away. Been shown in several videos to be 100% true regardless of a wet panel etc.
> 
> ...


And so the debate continues :lol:


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## BrummyPete (Jun 10, 2010)

I foam on a dry car, rinse then foam again so I guess I foam on both............ 

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## neilmcl (Mar 26, 2010)

Bilt Hamber has suggested on this very site that they recommend using their Auto Foam on a dry car. 

I'd have thought foaming onto a wet car the foam tends to "slip" off the surface plus there will be a barrier between it and the dirt it needs to get at.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Copied and pasted from FB from a well respected detailer. I don't see how you can dispute the dry or rinsed panel method, the photographed results are clear to see.

Having also tested this myself off the back of this post, I can't argue it and now pressure rinse my car prior to foaming. My test was with Bilt Hamber Auto Foam as well.

"Warning lengthy post: Something that seems to come up often, most of the time on a weekly basis, is "Should I rinse before foaming/ pre wash?" My reply is always the same and I spoke to many pros about this and the majority are of the same opinion....... "YES"

While there's no right or wrong answers in detailing methods it's really what works for you however taking variables like time and cost out of the equation then there is more effective / safe ways of working.

So why do I say "YES" to pre rinsing? Well for me it's a no brainer; here in NI water is free, I want to use the no cost option to shed all loose dirt from the surface before applying product. My thinking is that the loose dirt could be covering some of the bonded dirt making the product work on the easy to remove stuff rather than working on the problem areas. In short I want the product to work on the difficult stuff.

What are the arguments against? Well some will suggest that a powerful water stream could push the dirt into the paint and flaw the paint. For me I'd have to argue that point, granted if a power washer is sprayed directly onto a grain of dirt the pressure could force it deeper but in reality we should all be using a power hose at an angle anyway allowing the pressure to flood the area carrying dirt away. I've tested this a little by inspecting corrected paint and power hosing when dirty, I've yet to see any evidence to show that presser washing dirt will actually inflict damage.

The other argument is that a wet surface is diluting the product; that I can agree with. It does but to the point where is makes the product ineffective? No. If using foam and u want a dwell then a wet surface can shorten that dwell time, however a good snow foam doesn't need 20 mins dwell.

When your passionate about car cleaning you start to question each method you use and look for ways of bettering what you do, this is why I've tested pre rinsing and it is why I will stick with pre rinsing. For those who are on the fence I had a white car in recently and decided to test the theory again and picture the results.

Below is my test, two panels which are equally as dirty, both with a line drawn in the dirt. Rear door is rinsed with pw (8 - 10 vertical passes and 8-10 horizontal passes) and front isn't. Both then foamed using kkd blizzard force and allowed to dwell for the same length of time. The foam is then rinsed using a pw at the same distance for each and 8 - 10 vertical passes and 8-10 horizontal passes (both as near the same as I could possibly achieve) however it was repeated on the drivers door to 'make up' for the Rinse, they have therefore saw the same amount of water and only difference is the sequence. Not surprising to me but the rinsed panel is much cleaner, almost a contactless wash. It was evident how much the foam softened the remaining dirt on the rear as u could see the dirt rinsing off with ease. I'll let the pics do the talking, thanks for reading."


































































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## Rozzer32 (Aug 12, 2017)

I always pre wash with a citrus wash then rinse and then snow foam. So guess I vote for wet car.


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## rob2278 (Jul 18, 2009)

bigbruiser said:


> Wait what there is another ?:thumb::doublesho


Well, when I say "detailing" that is very debatable.......:thumb:


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Rozzer32 said:


> I always pre wash with a citrus wash then rinse and then snow foam. So guess I vote for wet car.


This ^^^:thumb: then another rinse to make sure before I hit it with the 2BM


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

always use a pre wash then snow foam, the safest and most effective way.


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## Christian6984 (Dec 20, 2007)

Depending on situation i can do either. Usually dry. I sometimes turn down the strength of the foam so its quite runny while i do the wheels and then hit it with a much thicker foam while going to fill up the buckets for the paint


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## neilmcl (Mar 26, 2010)

Brian1612 said:


> Copied and pasted from FB from a well respected detailer. I don't see how you can dispute the dry or rinsed panel method, the photographed results are clear to see.
> 
> Having also tested this myself off the back of this post, I can't argue it and now pressure rinse my car prior to foaming. My test was with Bilt Hamber Auto Foam as well.
> 
> ...


I've used KKD Blizzard a number of times and whilst I wasn't that impressed in comparison to BH Autofoam, I never saw a poor result like that in the picture when using it on a dry car.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

neilmcl said:


> I've used KKD Blizzard a number of times and whilst I wasn't that impressed in comparison to BH Autofoam, I never saw a poor result like that in the picture when using it on a dry car.


I have tested the strongest version of blizzard which was extreme and it was very dissapointing performance wise as a foam. Imagine the standard blizzard would be even less potent. Thick foam but didn't do much, cleaning power improved when used as a pre wash.

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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

I always pre rinse too. In my head it makes sense to get as much off as possible that will come off and then let the chemicals do there job. 
In summer I can get away with not rinsing as the car doesn't get dirty but in winter when you have different drying cycles between layers off dirt, pressure wash as much off as you can


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## neilmcl (Mar 26, 2010)

Brian1612 said:


> I have tested the strongest version of blizzard which was extreme and it was very dissapointing performance wise as a foam. Imagine the standard blizzard would be even less potent. Thick foam but didn't do much, cleaning power improved when used as a pre wash.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


I agree KKD wasn't that great but I've never seen such a poor performance as the one pictured whenever I've snow foamed on a dry car, and that's with using some of the real rubbish foams, eg, AB Magifoam. I'm a bit sceptical about that whole test tbh, what did he do, rinse after foaming from about 10 feet away.

Personally I just stick to the manufacturer instructions, they know better than me.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

neilmcl said:


> I agree KKD wasn't that great but I've never seen such a poor performance as the one pictured whenever I've snow foamed on a dry car, and that's with using some of the real rubbish foams, eg, AB Magifoam. I'm a bit sceptical about that whole test tbh, what did he do, rinse after foaming from about 10 feet away.
> 
> Personally I just stick to the manufacturer instructions, they know better than me.


The guy that done that review is a big fan of KKD so I doubt he would have purposefully altered the test to refkeft badly on the company. Although not with Blizzard I have seen the same sort of results with others foams like BH AF. I didn't test it in this manner though, I used the make up pad test but the pad used on the non rinsed side did show more dirt on the pad compared to the pre rinsed side. Test it out for yourself bud and see what you think but I was the same as you before.

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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Brian1612 said:


> The guy that done that review is a big fan of KKD so I doubt he would have purposefully altered the test to refkeft badly on the company. Although not with Blizzard I have seen the same sort of results with others foams like BH AF. I didn't test it in this manner though, I used the make up pad test but the pad used on the non rinsed side did show more dirt on the pad compared to the pre rinsed side. Test it out for yourself bud and see what you think but I was the same as you before.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


try the test again, but this time also do a patch where it is pre washed first, followed by snow foam. It beats pre rinsing and is a lot safer for your paint.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

neilmcl said:


> I agree KKD wasn't that great but I've never seen such a poor performance as the one pictured whenever I've snow foamed on a dry car, and that's with using some of the real rubbish foams, eg, AB Magifoam. I'm a bit sceptical about that whole test tbh, what did he do, rinse after foaming from about 10 feet away.
> 
> Personally I just stick to the manufacturer instructions, they know better than me.


I would have to agree, the door that is pre rinsed is cleaner before its snowfoamed, than the other door is after its been snow foamed.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

cheekymonkey said:


> try the test again, but this time also do a patch where it is pre washed first, followed by snow foam. It beats pre rinsing and is a lot safer for your paint.


I actually do this to an extent cheeky. I use auto foam as a pre-wash. Allow to dwell around 1 minute but don't rinse off. I then go over it with any old snow foam to prevent it drying out and help drag the dirt off the car.

Works a treat I agree!










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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

I always use wet the reasoning for me is to remove as much crud using my pressure washer prior to snow foaming plus I've already wey the vehicle when using a citrus pre-wash, and in any case, a soak even with water will help soften the dirt and help the snow foam do its job later
Just a quick question for those who use dry, do you, folks, every time you have a bath/shower do you use your prefered soap/body wash on dry skin?


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## sevenfourate (Mar 23, 2013)

suspal said:


> I always use wet the reasoning for me is to remove as much crud using my pressure washer prior to snow foaming plus I've already wey the vehicle when using a citrus pre-wash, and in any case, a soak even with water will help soften the dirt and help the snow foam do its job later
> Just a quick question for those who use dry, do you, folks, every time you have a bath/shower do you use your prefered soap/body wash on dry skin?


Thats a poor comparison IMO. In the bath or shower you use 'rubbing' with a cloth or flannel etc to clear dead skin or dirt.

Here we are talking about a contactless wash at this stage with the car; and letting the foam soaking in and dragging the dirt off alone as the cleaning action.

Two completely different scenario's.


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

sevenfourate said:


> Thats a poor comparison IMO. In the bath or shower you use 'rubbing' with a cloth or flannel etc to clear dead skin or dirt.
> 
> Here we are talking about a contactless wash at this stage with the car; and letting the foam soaking in and dragging the dirt off alone as the cleaning action.
> 
> Two completely different scenario's.


Really so you use a flannel, cloth brush etc on dry skin????
Chap read what I've said and think about it when you next


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## Fairtony (Mar 12, 2018)

suspal said:


> Really so you use a flannel, cloth brush etc on dry skin????
> 
> Chap read what I've said and think about it when you next


If I could spray detergent onto myself, and then rinse it off using the shower head, without having to touch myself once. I would. And I would absolutely spray myself in detergent first, before rinsing.

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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Fairtony said:


> If I could spray detergent onto myself, and then rinse it off using the shower head, without having to touch myself once. I would. And I would absolutely spray myself in detergent first, before rinsing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In fairness though that is a completely different scenario and rinsing yourself down with the shower head first offers no additional benefits unlike doing so on a dirty car... regardless this is a bad comparison! 

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## Caraman (Aug 9, 2007)

For the same reason covered in the thread, I pressure-rinse first, if only to knock off the loose stuff.


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## Trix (Jul 1, 2006)

BrummyPete said:


> I foam on a dry car, rinse then foam again so I guess I foam on both............
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


Me too..


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Brian1612 said:


> In fairness though that is a completely different scenario and rinsing yourself down with the shower head first offers no additional benefits unlike doing so on a dirty car... regardless this is a bad comparison!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


problem is any benefit found is far weighed out by the higher risk of damage.
The hole purpose of snow foam is to lubricate the removable dirt and to soften the rest


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

cheekymonkey said:


> problem is any benefit found is far weighed out by the higher risk of damage.
> The hole purpose of snow foam is to lubricate the removable dirt and to soften the rest


Higher risk of damage? I hope you aren't suggesting rinsing dirt off a car is now dangerous for the paint cheeky? That idea is absolute nonsense and is laughed at by just about any professional in the trade never mind a weekend warrior like me 

Your point is actually the polar opposite of what you are saying. By not doing so you are 100% guaranteed as tested by many to be leaving more dirt on the car after your pre wash which you will then be rubbing along the paint when hand washing the car.

It's all opinion at the end of the day but all the evidence by very reputable people proves it for me. Plus I have confirmed it myself, some people are far too stubborn to accept facts though but I urge you to try it like I did.

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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Brian1612 said:


> Higher risk of damage? I hope you aren't suggesting rinsing dirt off a car is now dangerous for the paint cheeky? That idea is absolute nonsense and is laughed at by just about any professional in the trade never mind a weekend warrior like me
> 
> Your point is actually the polar opposite of what you are saying. By not doing so you are 100% guaranteed as tested by many to be leaving more dirt on the car after your pre wash which you will then be rubbing along the paint when hand washing the car.
> 
> ...


of course theres a higher risk, the fact the dirt is dry that alone will mark the paint. never mind such things as road salt etc. 
As for extra dirt being left, if you do it right then there will be less dirt, first pre wash then snow foam. although like i said before snow foams job is actually to soften the dirt. 
I have tryed the just rinse first method many years ago, tryed it on both the cars i had at that time. findings was after using for a long time there was most defiantly marks left in the paint. try it on soft paint you will see the damage within a few washes. the safest way is to always lubricate dirt before removing


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

cheekymonkey said:


> of course theres a higher risk, the fact the dirt is dry that alone will mark the paint. never mind such things as road salt etc.
> As for extra dirt being left, if you do it right then there will be less dirt, first pre wash then snow foam. although like i said before snow foams job is actually to soften the dirt.
> I have tryed the just rinse first method many years ago, tryed it on both the cars i had at that time. findings was after using for a long time there was most defiantly marks left in the paint. try it on soft paint you will see the damage within a few washes. the safest way is to always lubricate dirt before removing


So rinsing loose dirt off with water causes scratches now? Genuinely can't cough in the direction of a car these days in case you inflict swirls, ridiculous 

You are only removing the loose dirt sitting on top with the stubborn dirt still remaining underneath. This is creating a barrier between the dirt you are rinsing off and the paintwork you are apparently scratching or that is the theory anyway and makes far more sense to me than another detailing myth. It's almost like the 'washing up liquid removing wax' nonsense someone made up 

Of course you are entitled to your opinion bud, it just makes no factual sense to me. No evidence online or opinions from experienced pro's with regards to the dangers of rinsing dirt off the car... seems daft even saying that.

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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Brian1612 said:


> So rinsing loose dirt off with water causes scratches now? Genuinely can't cough in the direction of a car these days in case you inflict swirls, ridiculous
> 
> You are only removing the loose dirt sitting on top with the stubborn dirt still remaining underneath. This is creating a barrier between the dirt you are rinsing off and the paintwork you are apparently scratching or that is the theory anyway and makes far more sense to me than another detailing myth. It's almost like the 'washing up liquid removing wax' nonsense someone made up
> 
> ...


Alot of pros dont rinse first, and the video evidence you shared was from a guy who thought it was ok to wipe his finger through the dirt on a customers car, i suppose that doesent damage the paint ether and not very professional at all. As i recall his reason for wanting to rinse first was because water is free, again not very profesional. 
Theres a reason most manufactures tell you to use on a dry car, its because its safer. the snow foam wrapes around and lubricates the dirt ,crud, salt and other damaging products. 
try rinsing first on a soft paint car in middle of winter and see what happens.
I suppose it comes down to whats more important your paint or saving a few pence not pre washing first.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Cheeky you are arguing a point that isn't up for debate mate. You've lost sight of what the original question from the OP was. I am not disputing a pre wash then foam will clean brilliantly but that isn't the question. 

The original question was wet or dry car when snow foaming. It's obvious for any logical person pre rinsing the dirty paint first and removing what dirt you can is the smarter and more effective option than spraying it on a dry car with more dirt on it, wasting the products cleaning ability as it can't target the stubborn stuff underneath. 


By you're logic are you also saying applying a fallout remover on a dirty, dry unrinsed wheel is also more effective than applying to a pre cleaned wheel? 

It is the exact same philosophy and we both know which one is more effective. We can all choose whatever we prefer and that is perfectly fine, it isn't right or wrong but all the evidence available suggests pre rinsing prior to foaming removes more dirt than foaming alone.

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## neilmcl (Mar 26, 2010)

Brian1612 said:


> Cheeky you are arguing a point that isn't up for debate mate. You've lost sight of what the original question from the OP was. I am not disputing a pre wash then foam will clean brilliantly but that isn't the question.
> 
> The original question was wet or dry car when snow foaming. *It's obvious for any logical person pre rinsing the dirty paint first and removing what dirt you can is the smarter and more effective option than spraying it on a dry car with more dirt on it, wasting the products cleaning ability as it can't target the stubborn stuff underneath.*
> 
> ...


If it's that "obvious" then why are certain manufacturers recommending the use of their product on dry cars.

Your example of a fallout remover is not a fair comparison. Fallout removers are designed specifically to react to surface contaminants whereas a snow foam is designed to soften and penetrate the entire dirt layer on your car, although as shown some are better than this than others.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

neilmcl said:


> If it's that "obvious" then why are certain manufacturers recommending the use of their product on dry cars.
> 
> Your example of a fallout remover is not a fair comparison. Fallout removers are designed specifically to react to surface contaminants whereas a snow foam is designed to soften and penetrate the entire dirt layer on your car, although as shown some are better than this than others.


Bar a few manufacturers the majority of these snow foams offered by a lot of companies will be from the exact same company in white label form. This company will provide instructions for the snow foam which recommends applying to dry paint. As for the other companies that do make their own stuff, they are following what the rest of the market is doing and what is regarded the norm.

Again it's not a hard test to confirm what I am saying with regards to cleaning ability is correct. Very easy on white paint but possible on dark colours by doing the make up pad test.

Explain to me how it isn't a fair comparison? You clean away loose dirt on alloys so the fallout remover reacts with the stuff it is designed too, correct?

Well you pressure rinse your paint down the same way you do alloys, removing the loose layer of dirt and grime which allows your pre-wash/foam to work and absorb into the more stubborn stuff the pressure washer didn't remove and not wasting it's surfactants on dirt which water can remove. By leaving that layer of crap on the paint it creates a barrier that prevents the snow foam or pre wash penetrating the grime underneath.

It is exactly the same.

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## neilmcl (Mar 26, 2010)

Brian1612 said:


> Bar a few manufacturers the majority of these snow foams offered by a lot of companies will be from the exact same company in white label form. This company will provide instructions for the snow foam which recommends applying to dry paint. As for the other companies that do make their own stuff, they are following what the rest of the market is doing and what is regarded the norm.
> 
> Again it's not a hard test to confirm what I am saying with regards to cleaning ability is correct. Very easy on white paint but possible on dark colours by doing the make up pad test.
> 
> ...


You're making a huge assumption that decent snow foams are not designed and manufactured to be able to penetrate and soften the entire layer of dirt.

Of course your fallout remover comparison isn't fair. Fallout remover is designed specifically to "light up" and loosen the first instance of fallout and therefore will show up on the outer layer of dirt rather than the bonded contaminants if used on a dirty car. Snow foam is designed to soften the entire dirt layer, or as much as it can do so.

And I really have to take issue with your statement that manufacturer's are simply providing usage recommendation based purely on what's the "norm" rather than actually basing it on their own research & development, or are you telling us you know better than they do!


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Brian1612 said:


> Cheeky you are arguing a point that isn't up for debate mate. You've lost sight of what the original question from the OP was. I am not disputing a pre wash then foam will clean brilliantly but that isn't the question.
> 
> The original question was wet or dry car when snow foaming. It's obvious for any logical person pre rinsing the dirty paint first and removing what dirt you can is the smarter and more effective option than spraying it on a dry car with more dirt on it, wasting the products cleaning ability as it can't target the stubborn stuff underneath.
> 
> ...


it is exactly what the op, asked do you snow foam on wet or dry, even with a pre wash you still do it on a dry car. If i was to just snow foam it would be on a dry car, because that is safer imo. Just to confirm it BH AF i use as the pre wash.
your fallout remover is totally different, infact it more confirms using a pre wash followed by a snow foam. 
I take it you still use BH AF, how do they tell you to use there product, as many times on here you have claimed the manufacturer knows there product better than anyone else.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

neilmcl said:


> You're making a huge assumption that decent snow foams are not designed and manufactured to be able to penetrate and soften the entire layer of dirt.
> 
> Of course your fallout remover comparison isn't fair. Fallout remover is designed specifically to "light up" and loosen the first instance of fallout and therefore will show up on the outer layer of dirt rather than the bonded contaminants if used on a dirty car. Snow foam is designed to soften the entire dirt layer, or as much as it can do so.
> 
> And I really have to take issue with your statement that manufacturer's are simply providing usage recommendation based purely on what's the "norm" rather than actually basing it on their own research & development, or are you telling us you know better than they do!


If that was the case neil then simply put we would have a market flooded with pre washes that are touchless cleaners and physical hand washes would be a thing of the past... is that the case? No.

I am basing it on the fact that the evidence both online from several experienced professionals and what I have witnessed first hand myself confirms what I am saying. Unless you have personally done the exact same tests and can post factual results which confirm a pre rinse is counter intuitive to touchless cleaning then what you are saying is based on simple guess work.

You aren't looking at the simple picture with regards to the comparison. The fact is a fallout remover performs better when the panel has been removed of all non-bonded contamination so it can focus on the stubborn stuff. You have made my point in your own reply neil 'Snow foam is designed to soften the entire dirt layer, or as much as it can do so'

You are right here and by removing as much of the dirt with water you allow the pre-wash/foam to target the grime that wasn't removed allowing it to remove dirt it otherwise wouldn't have. It's simple valeting/detailing 101 that applies to all aspects of detailing.

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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Brian1612 said:


> If that was the case neil then simply put we would have a market flooded with pre washes that are touchless cleaners and physical hand washes would be a thing of the past... is that the case? No.
> 
> did you not claim BH AF was as near as dam it a touchless wash


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

cheekymonkey said:


> Brian1612 said:
> 
> 
> > If that was the case neil then simply put we would have a market flooded with pre washes that are touchless cleaners and physical hand washes would be a thing of the past... is that the case? No.
> ...


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Brian1612 said:


> cheekymonkey said:
> 
> 
> > Yes correct 100% cheeky but it isn't touchless as I said and that is from the best foam on the market.
> ...


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

It was almost clean cheeky but not totally, the quality is lost on the upload but itnwas visible on my phone. It was that long ago I can't say 100% I did pre rinse the car but it's part of my standard wash routine, even in reviews and given the amount of dirt on the before pad along with how wet the driveway is prior to applying the foam... I would say I did pre rinse it. 

I haven't mentioned that in the review though which I probably should have really, given the length of the review I possibly have missed out little details like that.

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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

I agree with Brian, I've seen better results rinsing first. Wether this is right or wrong I don't know. I too follow the logic that's it better to get off what can be removed easy to let the chemical/ snow foam do the job it was designed too do.


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## Woodsmoke (Feb 12, 2018)

Ok so here is a mind bending question then...

If your blast dirt around your paint with a washer, with out having the snow foam to encapsulate the dirt are you potentially driving in micro marring or fine scratches?


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## Gorselea (Oct 28, 2015)

TFR on dry car - powerwash - BH auto foam - powerwash


Works as a touchless wash for me when I'm pushed for time or the weather's crap. 


Even on cars with no lsp it takes a serious amount of dirt off before washing.


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## Andy1972 (Jan 12, 2014)

not wanting to jump into an already intense debate but surely its just logical that pre rinsing a car with a pressure washer before snow foaming will give better results than just snow foam by itself? your effectively adding another wash cycle into the mix. 


Im in the dry car camp though. If I add any more phases into the wash, it will take longer than machine polishing


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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

Woodsmoke said:


> Ok so here is a mind bending question then...
> 
> If your blast dirt around your paint with a washer, with out having the snow foam to encapsulate the dirt are you potentially driving in micro marring or fine scratches?


No. When using a pressure washer to clean a car the water does not actually drive the dirt particles into the surface of the paintwork, it lifts and encapsulates them by getting in behind them, therefore effectively creating a protective layer of water between the dirt particles and the paintwork


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## Woodsmoke (Feb 12, 2018)

wish wash said:


> No. When using a pressure washer to clean a car the water does not actually drive the dirt particles into the surface of the paintwork, it lifts and encapsulates them by getting in behind them, therefore effectively creating a protective layer of water between the dirt particles and the paintwork


I'd be interested in seeing the physics involved in that statement, not saying your wrong at all, but i can't see it performing that function clearly in my head.


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## neilmcl (Mar 26, 2010)

wish wash said:


> I agree with Brian, I've seen better results rinsing first. Wether this is right or wrong I don't know.* I too follow the logic that's it better to get off what can be removed easy to let the chemical/ snow foam do the job it was designed too do.*


However it's not going to do it's job as good as intended/designed if there's a water barrier in it's way and it was designed to go on dry.

Does pre-rinsing with a PW remove dirt? - yes, of course it will.

Is pre-rinsing first followed by a decent snow-foam better than using the snow foam on it's own? - debatable, I personally haven't seen conclusive proof with my washes to suggest this, especially with my go to BH Autofoam. Other snow foams may and will produce different results.

I still go with the logic that the manufacturer's know their product best, they've designed it, they've tested it and know exactly how the chemicals react and the optimum way that they should be applied.


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## neilmcl (Mar 26, 2010)

Woodsmoke said:


> Ok so here is a mind bending question then...
> 
> If your blast dirt around your paint with a washer, with out having the snow foam to encapsulate the dirt are you potentially driving in micro marring or fine scratches?


There is an argument that this can happen. I'd rather by moving dirt that's been softened and loosened from the surface by a pre-wash chemical than by blasting it via a pw on it's own.

In fact there's a very good argument that a PW should not really be used at all on the bodywork as a rinse medium.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

It's a good debate and at the end of the day everything said in here is only opinions. For me the PW rinse causing marring/scratches is detailing folklore, it's nonsense. I am holding the lance about 1 1/2 meters from it working top to bottom, the water is carrying the dirt away essentially. 

With opinion that the water sitting on the panel would play any significant part on the performance of the pre wash or foam, again I don't see it. A handful of water droplets isn't going to effect how a product cleans and usually by the time I've sorted out my foam lance/pump sprayer and filled all my buckets, there is nothing on the vertical panels and minimal water on the horizontals from the pre rinse.

It's a good debate though and prior yo trying myself I was a firm believer that a pre rinse made no difference. I accepted how wrong I was a while ago though.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Woodsmoke said:


> Ok so here is a mind bending question then...
> 
> If your blast dirt around your paint with a washer, with out having the snow foam to encapsulate the dirt are you potentially driving in micro marring or fine scratches?


yes it does, especially when tested on my very soft jap paint.


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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

There's only one clear way to settle this, fisty cuffs behind the bus shelter :lol:


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## Andyman0 (Aug 20, 2018)

Excellent debate, i`ve enjoyed reading this. Can i ask, are there many ppl on here, like myself, that enjoy washing their car when its raining?


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## MSwiss (Sep 25, 2017)

I like to pre-rinse, I tested on my own car for my interest and pre-rinising gave better results.

In winter I pre-rinse, Auto foam, rinse and then use Auto Glanz spritzer that combo for me works really well and gets most crud off the car.


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