# Detailers Web Sites



## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

Just wondering what you all think about your company web sites (if your run a business or if you sell detailing supplies).

It seems that a lot of the sites I've visited are templates or cheap designs that lack the quality that should reflect your work.

Does your web site not generate much business so you don't invest in it or can you not justify the amount for a decent web site for another reason? 

It's just for a industry that relies of aesthetics that a web site (your online shop front) would be neglected... 

Just a rant - as a web designer I know how much money a web site can make and how much business it can make, looking for an insight from your point of view?


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

AboveFunction said:


> Just wondering what you all think about your company web sites (if your run a business or if you sell detailing supplies).
> 
> It seems that a lot of the sites I've visited are templates or cheap designs that lack the quality that should reflect your work.
> 
> ...


There's your problem.

I know nothing about websites & they look fine.

People who know nothing about car cleaning think there car is fine - I look at it and think it looks like a nail!

Think thats what it more than likely is..... :thumb:


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

Or maybe he's looking for some work


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm happy with mine.

:thumb:


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## [email protected] (Sep 22, 2009)

also happy with mine it didnt take alot of money to put together but ive had nothing but good feedback about it


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## [email protected] (Mar 5, 2007)

-Mat- said:


> Or maybe he's looking for some work


Bingo Mr Grant M - yourwebsite.com -


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

-Mat- said:


> Or maybe he's looking for some work


Nope - to busy just now, working full time, having a kid and cleaning my car means no extra time for extra work hehe

It is just like when you look at cars, I look at web sites in the same way and think god you could get so much more from your site!


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

Showshine said:


> I'm happy with mine.
> 
> :thumb:


I quite like your actually - it's clean and reflects your work...


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## [email protected] (Mar 5, 2007)

AboveFunction said:


> Nope - to busy just now, working full time, having a kid and cleaning my car means no extra time for extra work hehe
> 
> It is just like when you look at cars, I look at web sites in the same way and think god you could get so much more from your site!


send them an email then...:thumb:


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

Autobrite Detailer said:


> send them an email then...:thumb:


I contacted a ecommerce site earlier and gave them some pointers on how to improve it... Simple things like messy home pages, no clear delivery costs, no delivery time frame, messy basket pages, no SEO in the main header etc...

I'm not hating here, by any means - just wondering why there seems to be a lack of car for web sites. When you look at other businesses in different industries who spend a lot more and value their internet site more?


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

Autobrite Detailer said:


> send them an email then...:thumb:


Like one thing on your web site - You have a basket but I can't actually make it out because you have dark text on a dark background

i.e.


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## Modmedia (Jul 25, 2008)

I agree, some look really bad for 2005 never mind 2011. I used to develop web pages so I can sort of grasp what you are saying.

I do however think Polished Bliss have an awesome website.


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## Ste T (Jul 17, 2008)

AboveFunction said:


> I contacted a ecommerce site earlier and gave them some pointers on how to improve it... Simple things like messy home pages, no clear delivery costs, no delivery time frame, messy basket pages, no SEO in the main header etc...





AboveFunction said:


> Nope - to busy just now, working full time, having a kid and cleaning my car means no extra time for extra work hehe
> 
> It is just like when you look at cars, I look at web sites in the same way and think god you could get so much more from your site!


and you had time to do this, when?


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

20RSport said:


> and you had time to do this, when?


It was a quick email - 5 minutes to contact someone who I gave help to while asking information (like delivery prices and times) isn't the same as spending between 2 weeks or 2 months developing and designing a new site?


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## Ste T (Jul 17, 2008)

AboveFunction said:


> Nope - to busy just now, working full time, having a kid and cleaning my car means no extra time for extra work hehe
> 
> It is just like when you look at cars, I look at web sites in the same way and think god you could get so much more from your site!





AboveFunction said:


> Like one thing on your web site - You have a basket but I can't actually make it out because you have dark text on a dark background
> 
> i.e.


i understand there new web site is being developed as we speak. ... :thumb:


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

20RSport said:


> i understand there new web site is being developed as we speak. ... :thumb:


Good news - will be looking out for how it looks


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

you sound like my brother he's always on about crap websites.But he develops them and can build systems around them and other stuff.To be honest not a clue what he is on about when he tell's me.


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

Modmedia said:


> I agree, some look really bad for 2005 never mind 2011. I used to develop web pages so I can sort of grasp what you are saying.
> 
> *I do however think Polished Bliss have an awesome website*.


Agree with this!

I actually feel far to common to buy from that site when i go on it!

Its beautiful it is lol :lol:


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

An "interesting" way to try and drum up some business....


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

I spend as much on my site as I can worth every penny! Brings in so much work when you know how!


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## adamck (Dec 2, 2010)

Most small self ran businesses' will have a naff website usually.
This isnt because they want a crap website, its usually because they have:
A) Taken the cheap route and paid pennies (usually because they cant afford to spend ££££'s)
B) Had a bash at it themselves
C) Have been ripped off by someone and just lived with the site since.
D) they dont realise its crap or why...

Most of the poor sites are home made or made via a site builder, and its as other have pointed out... they are detailers, not developers.

The ShowShine website was created by me, its early stages with the site at the moment, but will be updated with a shop and new features in the near future.

Most the better websites are based on the company being larger, and the owner paying more for the website as its their main source of advertisement and income etc... for some businesses its just not viable or affordable in the current climate.


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

adamck said:


> Most small self ran businesses' will have a naff website usually.
> This isnt because they want a crap website, its usually because they have:
> A) Taken the cheap route and paid pennies (usually because they cant afford to spend ££££'s)
> B) Had a bash at it themselves
> ...


Fight fight fight fight!!


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## adamck (Dec 2, 2010)

Im not here for advertising my business, im busy enough as it is lol.

Far too much work building App's for people


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

Do you do detailing apps?


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## Ste T (Jul 17, 2008)

best sales plugging thread iv ever read...


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

To be honest, I think the OP has a point - if provocatively put. While I think most I've seen are good; some sites are a lot slicker than others... and it probably does play a part in my perception of these "shop-fronts".

In a way though, since they are not selling website design services, it's not exactly a direct indicator of quality, but more like fancy packaging.

What really matters then is whether what is *in* the packaging does the business or not. Rather like the fancy packaging for products.

A high quality product/service can (and should ideally) be completemented by quality packaging/advertising. But it's not the be all and end all.

An ex-marketing colleage of mine used to say "you can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter".

"Either way, it'll still smell like a turd" was my reply I think.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

alot of them are actually pretty good IMHO i know a few are template site builder based but tbh does that matter to anyone as long as the design is eye catching, modern meets good usability standards and functions as expected? 

i dont always think template/site builder is bad tbh it gives a good design to people who are not a developer.


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

-Mat- said:


> Or maybe he's looking for some work


Good job. :lol:


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

20RSport said:


> i understand there new web site is being developed as we speak. ... :thumb:


How do you know this? :lol:


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

mines not a template and cost a fair amount so I am happy with it at the minute, could do with the odd tweak now and again but I am no designer, I just pass it on to the fella that built it....


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## Refined Detail (Nov 27, 2006)

335dAND110XS said:


> An "interesting" way to try and drum up some business....


That combined with a bit of good ol' bait to wind us up :lol:

I won't bite, I'll just say yes I'm happy enough with my site for now - I get enough positive's said about it to keep it as it is atm.


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

I've seen you site Rich and it's very similar to another site I've seen, did you copy and paste it?


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## Refined Detail (Nov 27, 2006)

deanchilds said:


> I've seen you site Rich and it's very similar to another site I've seen, did you copy and paste it?


Funnily enough, no :lol: It does seem to get a few people copy & pasting from mine though...


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

That will explain it! You must be doing something right then!


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

Ninja59 said:


> alot of them are actually pretty good IMHO i know a few are template site builder based but tbh does that matter to anyone as long as the design is eye catching, modern meets *good usability standards and functions as expected*?
> 
> i dont always think template/site builder is bad tbh it gives a good design to people who are not a developer.


This is my point a lot aren't usable or function as expected.

That's what brought this on, when buying products I had to contact them as the site wasn't usable and didn't have the information I needed.

To be fair I don't mind giving pointers when I message them on how to improve their site because I may be back asking how to use products I bought from them


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

Refined Detail said:


> That combined with a bit of good ol' bait to wind us up :lol:
> 
> I won't bite, I'll just say yes I'm happy enough with my site for now - I get enough positive's said about it to keep it as it is atm.


Not trying to get a bite, your site is usable and it's got contact information and your work so it's probably all people want.

But when a site is selling products you want it to be upfront, secure and have a nice user experience


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## Refined Detail (Nov 27, 2006)

Then your thread title is misleading no? Only a few detailers sell products as well as offering detailing services.

You seem to be on a bit of a rant about the way a shop is presented - therefore you're actually referring to resellers. The successful ones already have very good sites imho (ie. most the supporters and resellers on here)


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

Refined Detail said:


> Then your thread title is misleading no? Only a few detailers sell products as well as offering detailing services.
> 
> You seem to be on a bit of a rant about the way a shop is presented - therefore you're actually referring to resellers. The successful ones already have very good sites imho (ie. most the supporters and resellers on here)


The general standard is plain templates like someone said earlier Mr Website sites.

But it was some resellers and supporters on here that I am referring to - I know they do well so why not invest more into the online side for a greater return.

Of course I'm coming at it from a web designers point of view and not a reseller or detailer.

User experience is a passion and profession as detailing is to many of us - I shouldn't generalise the industry some do have nice sites - but some are alot better than others


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

deanchilds said:


> Do you do detailing apps?


He will do soon when he does mine yeah


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Mine is a template of sorts. Not 100% happy with it but then web designers are quite pricey for what is actually done. Get plenty through it and havent had any negative feedback as of yet so its sticking unless the price is right and the designer is worth the money.:thumb:


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

AboveFunction said:


> The general standard is plain templates like someone said earlier Mr Website sites.
> 
> But it was some resellers and supporters on here that I am referring to - *I know they do well so why not invest more into the online side for a greater return. *
> Of course I'm coming at it from a web designers point of view and not a reseller or detailer.
> ...


But up to a grand for a website when you have a mortgage/Rates/Van/Products/Insurance/Bills/3 kids/Petrol etc etc it doesn't stretch any further than anyone elses wages.

TBH - A lot of people think "Ooh he charges £225 for a 2 day detail, he must be loaded"

Erm no, so a costly website tends to be a luxury as it would be to average joe buying an expensive pot of wax


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

AboveFunction said:


> The general standard is plain templates like someone said earlier Mr Website sites.
> 
> But it was some resellers and supporters on here that I am referring to - I know they do well so why not invest more into the online side for a greater return.
> 
> ...


I used Mr Site and built my own website, from a personal perspective I would like it slicker looking, my customers on the other hand often praise me on how the site looks, describes and navigates.
From the feedback I gather through my customers, it doesn't seem good business sense to spend £800 + on a new site, when the the £30 site brings in regular new business.


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

sounds like touting for business imo


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

Beau Technique said:


> Mine is a template of sorts. Not 100% happy with it but then web designers are quite pricey for what is actually done. Get plenty through it and havent had any negative feedback as of yet so its sticking unless the price is right and the designer is worth the money.:thumb:


Nothing wrong with your site,looks good and like the theme likewise all the others im busy clicking the links to since reading the op:thumb:

Never really had an issue with any trader sites either although some are slicker than others granted but cost is surely the prohibitive factor as if they were cheap enough then surely all traders would have a super slick site.


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

No offense to the original poster but the amount of guys who are "web designers" is just as many who claim to be detailers, so what makes you qualified ?

I think as long as the site owner is happy and it generates custom then does it matter how it looks ?

As for mine, I invested in a web developer to make mine, ironically I have a degree in web development but finanially more feasible to have someone else do it....but again I'm happy and my customers seem to like it so that's all that matters....


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## adamck (Dec 2, 2010)

Gleammachine said:


> I used Mr Site and built my own website, from a personal perspective I would like it slicker looking, my customers on the other hand often praise me on how the site looks, describes and navigates.
> From the feedback I gather through my customers, it doesn't seem good business sense to spend £800 + on a new site, when the the £30 site brings in regular new business.


Does it now... just clicked your link and your sites down, or at least the server isnt responding.
Spent about 3 mins trying to load then timed out, which is very common with mr site...


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## adamck (Dec 2, 2010)

Also did you know... when you register your domain name via Mr Site, that you dont actually own the domain?

They register the domain with their email address (on purpose) so that you have to pay there administrative fees to move away and keep your domain name.
So if mr site ever goes bust (which is likely in the end) you will have lost your domain name as they own it still... and you will have a battle with nominet to get it back.

And dont get me started on how their domain transfer process works...


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## divine3779 (Jul 12, 2009)

ianFRST said:


> sounds like touting for business imo


Agreed!!!!:thumb:


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## Ti22 (Mar 24, 2009)

I'm happy with mine, and it often gets positive comments.. so not worried about spending £££'s to get it better at the mo!


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Im never happy with our website, but for me its a pain, iv had someone (a pro) design and build a site for me before, and altho i spent what id say was a fair enough amount, it was still not right, he did not listen to me, grasp the concept of what we do, or give me what i wanted (and the guy was a pain to deal with) i have talked to other designers as im looking to fully rebuild the sites and get them back to just one site at some point in the near future, iv even started looking for who i want to build the new site, but out of the 5-10 iv had meetings with etc only 1 has actually listened to what i want and not instantly had an idea (or more than likely a theme) they want to go with and then try to tell me what i want rather than give me what i want. 

Now dont get me wrong i dont have vast amounts of money to blow on a site (we are only a small business) but id spend the money on a job to be done right once, rather than scrap a it like i did the last one, but none of the guys i talk to instil enough confidence in me that they could do the job right. Most seem to be "bedroom businesses" or complete idiots, im sure there are some good ones out there im just fed up looking for them and waisting my time with them. 

Just to add i dont think 1K is bad money to spend on a good website at all.


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## dooka (Aug 1, 2006)

Happy with mine. Some more graphical updates coming soon.. My site and van generates more business than I can cope with, so obviously working for me ..


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## Waxamomo (Jun 18, 2008)

Don't worry, I'm the guilty one guy's, it was me that got the constructive criticism 

To be fair, I don't mind a little bit of constructive criticism as it may bring up things that i've missed, just go easy on me 

I don't agree with all the points made in the e-mail, but one I do agree with and it was a really obvious one that I have overlooked, I do not display the postage rates up front, this will be added soon :thumb:

With regards to the design looking "dated" and "flung together", now that did hurt my feelings and I may not sleep tonight, thank god you never seen my original site that Waxamomo started with :lol::lol:

I appreciate you say you are a web designed and obviously you have an eye for these things, but what I will say is that this is the complete opposite to every other e-mail I have had regarding the design of the site, I even had a competitor e-mail saying how impressed he was.

Thanks for the e-mail, it has certainly helped point out about the shipping rates needing to be more visible, feel free with any more pointers :thumb:


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

adamck said:


> Does it now... just clicked your link and your sites down, or at least the server isnt responding.
> Spent about 3 mins trying to load then timed out, which is very common with mr site...





adamck said:


> Also did you know... when you register your domain name via Mr Site, that you dont actually own the domain?
> 
> They register the domain with their email address (on purpose) so that you have to pay there administrative fees to move away and keep your domain name.
> So if mr site ever goes bust (which is likely in the end) you will have lost your domain name as they own it still... and you will have a battle with nominet to get it back.
> ...


Your quite right it does appear to be temporarily unavailable, been told that it will be back up shortly.

Why do you presume they will go bust, been doing ok for the last 6 years?


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## nick.s (Dec 21, 2009)

James B said:


> Im never happy with our website, but for me its a pain, iv had someone (a pro) design and build a site for me before, and altho i spent what id say was a fair enough amount, it was still not right, he did not listen to me, grasp the concept of what we do, or give me what i wanted (and the guy was a pain to deal with) i have talked to other designers as im looking to fully rebuild the sites and get them back to just one site at some point in the near future, iv even started looking for who i want to build the new site, but out of the 5-10 iv had meetings with etc only 1 has actually listened to what i want and not instantly had an idea (or more than likely a theme) they want to go with and then try to tell me what i want rather than give me what i want.
> 
> Now dont get me wrong i dont have vast amounts of money to blow on a site (we are only a small business) but id spend the money on a job to be done right once, rather than scrap a it like i did the last one, but none of the guys i talk to instil enough confidence in me that they could do the job right. Most seem to be "bedroom businesses" or complete idiots, im sure there are some good ones out there im just fed up looking for them and waisting my time with them.
> 
> Just to add i dont think 1K is bad money to spend on a good website at all.


I gotta say, in defence of your site, it is brilliant, very professional, well laid out, and imho well designed. I could navigate clearly, everything was easy to find, and it presents itself very well indeed


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## adamck (Dec 2, 2010)

Gleammachine said:


> Your quite right it does appear to be temporarily unavailable, been told that it will be back up shortly.
> 
> Why do you presume they will go bust, been doing ok for the last 6 years?


Personally i have only dealt with Mr site when transferring the showshine website and from viewing other sites made with them, each time i have seen more downtime than uptime and the support was god aweful.

If i ran my business through a website that was down more than it was up and had crap support but guys that dont really know what they are on about then i would be off like a shot...

Everytime there servers are down they use some excuse about upgrading and updating etc...


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## adamck (Dec 2, 2010)

This page full of reviews sums it up for me.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-rev...?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addOneStar

I know its filtered to the 1 star reviews, and there are quite a few good reviews but everyone has agreed that its very basic and the quality is poor.


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

adamck said:


> Personally i have only dealt with Mr site when transferring the showshine website and from viewing other sites made with them, each time i have seen more downtime than uptime and the support was god aweful.
> 
> If i ran my business through a website that was down more than it was up and had crap support but guys that dont really know what they are on about then i would be off like a shot...
> 
> Everytime there servers are down they use some excuse about upgrading and updating etc...


I don't know about that, I can only speak from my experiences and my site seems to be fine for 95% of the time, served me well for the last 6 years, with all but a few hickups from MrSite (this afternoon being one of them).


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Never had an issue in 2 years with Mr site tbh. When ive come across a hiccup, they have been more than helpful and dealt with the issue very promptly.


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## divine3779 (Jul 12, 2009)

Nice one O P!!! You have opened a nice can of worms!!:lol:


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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

divine3779 said:


> Nice one O P!!! You have opened a nice can of worms!!:lol:


Indeed he has, never mind :lol:
I have mr sites package, not all singing and dancing but it works fine for me


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Ours isn't a detailing one but we did spend a lot of time, effort and a fair bit of cash on it. Comments have all been very positive so far.


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

My personal experience with MR site was a terrible one.

Obviously this is personal to me and not all Mr site users etc but they were terrible. Really hated it which is why I paid for a new one to be done and I couldn't be happier


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## Exclusive Car Care (Jan 14, 2007)

I started with a Mr Site website and had nothing but problems with it so looked into getting a one custom designed about 3 years ago but was messed about by the designer so had a go at building my own which I still use now. I know its not the greatest of sites but do not think its too bad considering I had no experience in building websites. Clients always give positive comments

Tend to tweak it here and there over the quieter months but Im never really happy with it and will be looking to have a new one for next year built.


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

I think the big problem is its very easy to say a good web site will make you a lot of money but there are many industries and I think detailing is probably one of them where the margins are very small and for most people the design of the site will take second place to the price of the items. You might have a really nice site but if your 10p more than the guy with a simple site then the simple site will get the sale.

Are you anything to do with www.AboveFunction.com? If so do you not think its lacking a bit of further information i.e. you have 4 big bold eye catchers...click on any them and..... you get a contact us, no information of what sort of services you provide etc.


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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

Showshine said:


> My personal experience with MR site was a terrible one.
> 
> Obviously this is personal to me and not all Mr site users etc but they were terrible. Really hated it which is why I paid for a new one to be done and I couldn't be happier


I understand that my other half a mrsite and its a headache when things dont work and the customer support is appalling that i do agree with, i have thought about having another site built but i can't see it generating any more graft for the grand + that i'd have to spend


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

dennis said:


> I understand that my other half a mrsite and its a headache when things dont work and the customer support is appalling that i do agree with, i have thought about having another site built but i can't see it generating any more graft for the grand + that i'd have to spend


TBF

I am a complete computerphobe to the highest degree and DW was a challenge for me :lol:

Since swapping to the new site I have seen a 50% increase in incoming bookings and over 70% increase in enquiries so for me the money is already back and more


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## Black Magic Detail (Aug 17, 2010)

ive been getting messed about for the last 8 weeks(told a few days to get it on) with the web designer for my site ,its cheap but a nightmare, does not answer e mails ,6 weeks with the wrong phone number on my under constrution page,he said hes bussy with the big sites he takes care of .getting sick of him now but cant pay big money for a site ,i think ill take a look at mrsite or is there someone like mrsite but better ,im not looking for an all singing and dancing site, just a site to show my work ,give some info , prices and contact details


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

nick.s said:


> I gotta say, in defence of your site, it is brilliant, very professional, well laid out, and imho well designed. I could navigate clearly, everything was easy to find, and it presents itself very well indeed


Thats a DIY job i done my self, on the face of it, it looks ok but its flashed based, so not very SEO friendly  but thats all i can use.


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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

bleek said:


> ive been getting messed about for the last 8 weeks(told a few days to get it on) with the web designer for my site ,its cheap but a nightmare, does not answer e mails ,6 weeks with the wrong phone number on my under constrution page,he said hes bussy with the big sites he takes care of .getting sick of him now but cant pay big money for a site ,i think ill take a look at mrsite or is there someone like mrsite but better ,im not looking for an all singing and dancing site, just a site to show my work ,give some info , prices and contact details


As long as you have a bit of patients there is no reason why you could not build your own site .
We have four mr site packages, they do want we want them to so we are happy.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

If people want to build their own sites, stay away from Mr Site and buy the book Wordpress for dummies.

Spend a while reading that and buy a Wordpress theme and install it. You will then have a slick (working wise) website that is easily customised (once you understand Wordpress)

The only difficult bit then is the graphics, this all depends on how arty you are, if you are rubbish at this bit just get someone to design the graphic bits for you.

Wordpress can be used for Detailing Sites with inbuilt Shops too, so very suitable for the likes of James at Auto Finesse, as it can be altered by anyone with online access and you can give different permissions to people for different things.

ie. Admins can change layouts/text/everything, Contributors can only add new pics and gallery items or blogs updates etc. Wordpress is a CMS based system, like Joomla but I personally think its much better.

This is a Wordpress site: I think he does it himself too

http://www.miglior.co.uk/


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

Prism Detailing said:


> No offense to the original poster but the amount of guys who are "web designers" is just as many who claim to be detailers, so what makes you qualified ?
> 
> I think as long as the site owner is happy and it generates custom then does it matter how it looks ?
> 
> As for mine, I invested in a web developer to make mine, ironically I have a degree in web development but finanially more feasible to have someone else do it....but again I'm happy and my customers seem to like it so that's all that matters....


I've been a web designer for 5 or 6 years and it's my full time job for a rather large retailer in the UK - I think this makes me qualified? But i do know what you mean, A lot of people get ripped off my someone who done art at school once and who downloaded a dreamweaver trial.


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

Rob_Quads said:


> I think the big problem is its very easy to say a good web site will make you a lot of money but there are many industries and I think detailing is probably one of them where the margins are very small and for most people the design of the site will take second place to the price of the items. You might have a really nice site but if your 10p more than the guy with a simple site then the simple site will get the sale.
> 
> Are you anything to do with www.AboveFunction.com? If so do you not think its lacking a bit of further information i.e. you have 4 big bold eye catchers...click on any them and..... you get a contact us, no information of what sort of services you provide etc.


I own that site but no longer trade as I'm a in house designer and don't freelance any more.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

A lot of develpoers will use the likes of wordpress etc as templates for them to build on. Wordpress does look to be a way forward due to blogging content but for those that arent that clued up, nothing will work without the correct content.


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

Beau Technique said:


> A lot of develpoers will use the likes of wordpress etc as templates for them to build on. Wordpress does look to be a way forward due to blogging content but for those that arent that clued up, nothing will work without the correct content.


Wordpress is brilliant for simple and effective content management (don't need to use it as a blog, it can even be a online store).


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## walker1967 (Sep 12, 2010)

adamck said:


> C) Have been ripped off by someone and just lived with the site since.


This happened to me and now I cant justify forking out more dough for another, I've allready payed £175 for a site and logo which I never used. Now I have some mob called EMS n the phone to me wanting to create a mobile website for me but after a quick search on them their not to be trusted


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## jedi-knight83 (Aug 11, 2006)

My first site was wordpress and although it was ok for a first site I changed to the one I have now as soon as I could

Had this for over a year now and bar the odd hosting issue i love it and it still gets compliments from customers and people I meet... Mainly because of the massive portfolio. 

It's all custom built. Most of the work was to the back end so I can easily upload pics and it auto sizes them, creates the thumbnails and updates my home page and all I have to do is drag and drop the folder with the pics from my hard drive to the FTP web folder.

Www.cambridgeautogleam.com

Adding some new pages and making it iPad friendly next few weeks


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

jedi-knight83 said:


> My first site was wordpress and although it was ok for a first site I changed to the one I have now as soon as I could
> 
> Had this for over a year now and bar the odd hosting issue i love it and it still gets compliments from customers and people I meet... Mainly because of the massive portfolio.
> 
> ...


Nice mate :thumb:


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## alxg (May 3, 2009)

AboveFunction said:


> I quite like your actually - *it's clean* and reflects your work...


Come on, am I the only one who thought that for a detailer it bloody well should be......(cue cymbal crash)??!!

Sorry.........I'll get my coat......


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Prism Detailing said:


> I think as long as the site owner is happy and it generates custom then does it matter how it looks ?


So, everyone is suddenly a Web designer... However, what the above
statement drastically overlooks is the Law. For example, every registered
UK business, under UK and EU Law, is required to have their web site meet
at least the very basic of the HTML accessibility guidelines. Very few sites
that I've looked at in detail can even pass a basic code validation test, let 
alone begin to incorporate anything that's remotely accessible.

There are no excuses for this, any decent HTML editor is equipped with a
code validation routine. HTML that doesn't validate = broken code and is
storing up trouble for the future - especially on browsers that work best with
standards compliant code. When you think of the prevalence of mobile phones
equipped to surf, if your site doesn't work in that environment, then the
consequences are obvious. Broken code is the starting point!

There are regular threads on this site, in almost every section, where
comsumer matters are discussed. Again, it's a matter of Law with absolutely
no exemptions, where a business is required to place their proper trading 
address within their site. Anyone who deals with a trader who doesn't meet 
these regs is putting themselves at some risk if anything should go wrong or 
a dispute should ensue.

In every other consumer sphere, checking this very basic credential for any 
Web site is critical. Why does anyone think that detailing related Web sites 
are somehow exempt? Indeed, by filling in a feedback form on such a site
which then asks for details like car make and model, could be a recipe for 
getting your car stolen to order. You will have ignored your first safeguard,
the trading address, which when you think of the potential sums involved,
should be checked for authenticity anyway. No, a good reputation on DW
does not by-pass this!

As for the accessibility issues, well, there is only one thing to say. Building
an accessible site can only make very good business sense. The reason for
that being that most accessibility features, certainly those introduced since 
the adoption of a British Standard, actually makes sites easier to navigate, 
far more user friendly and help build a very important relationship between 
you and your visitors - in a word, it's trust. Their trust will build much quicker 
because you're showing that you care about your site's visitors by giving 
them a helpful online experience.

I'm not surprised that the OP has had some stick on this issue. I've had some
similar stick for raising this myself in the past. He is very definitely correct in 
what he's saying. Using sub-standard code and ignoring the basics does not 
give a good impression, no matter how good the shine is on the photoshopped
images!

Oh, and some unfortunate businessman has already lost around £500 of my
hard-earned; I maybe back in the market with another wedge to spend in
the New Year, just to celebrate my car's 3rd birthday. However, you already
know where my terms of business start. I've done it once, and lived, so I'm
not afraid to spend that money elsewhere and forego the shine. Let's hope
I don't have to. As a potential customer, I want to see businesses succeed!

Regards,
Steve


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

James B said:


> Im never happy with our website, but for me its a pain, iv had someone (a pro) design and build a site for me before, and altho i spent what id say was a fair enough amount, it was still not right, he did not listen to me, grasp the concept of what we do, or give me what i wanted (and the guy was a pain to deal with) i have talked to other designers as im looking to fully rebuild the sites and get them back to just one site at some point in the near future, iv even started looking for who i want to build the new site, but out of the 5-10 iv had meetings with etc only 1 has actually listened to what i want and not instantly had an idea (or more than likely a theme) they want to go with and then try to tell me what i want rather than give me what i want.
> 
> Now dont get me wrong i dont have vast amounts of money to blow on a site (we are only a small business) but id spend the money on a job to be done right once, rather than scrap a it like i did the last one, but none of the guys i talk to instil enough confidence in me that they could do the job right. Most seem to be "bedroom businesses" or complete idiots, im sure there are some good ones out there im just fed up looking for them and waisting my time with them.
> 
> Just to add i dont think 1K is bad money to spend on a good website at all.


I know where you are coming from, a lot of people will have an idea and if they are bedroom web designers or people who do it part time you probably won't be happy.

A designer should listen and provide you with what you want after all you are paying them but they may advise you of a better way to perceive your business online. But in the end no one knows your business like you do - I hope you find someone decent soon! If you go through the crap you will find many talented web designers.


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

walker1967 said:


> This happened to me and now I cant justify forking out more dough for another, I've allready payed £175 for a site and logo which I never used. Now I have some mob called EMS n the phone to me wanting to create a mobile website for me but after a quick search on them their not to be trusted


£175 :0 That's extremely cheap, are you sure they never used a template or was it a favor from a friend?

A logo along would got at least 3 times that from the people I work with and web sites vary massively on price but for £175 I would spend a day on it and give you a one page site with the main information! If that was including hosting you got a cracking deal because that alone is around £50!


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

Lowiepete said:


> For example, every registered
> UK business, under UK and EU Law, is required to have their web site meet
> at least the very basic of the HTML accessibility guidelines.


Not exactly true... There is no one in place to police these and ultimately every business site doesn't HAVE to



Lowiepete said:


> HTML that doesn't validate = broken code and is
> storing up trouble for the future - especially on browsers that work best with
> standards compliant code. When you think of the prevalence of mobile phones
> equipped to surf, if your site doesn't work in that environment, then the
> consequences are obvious. Broken code is the starting point!


Also not true, simple things like css hacks for older browsers like IE6 won't validate any more and using technologies such as CSS3 to give a user a rich user experience will also not validate - doesn't mean problems... The W3C validator is only a guidline



Lowiepete said:


> As for the accessibility issues, well, there is only one thing to say. Building
> an accessible site can only make very good business sense. The reason for
> that being that most accessibility features, certainly those introduced since
> the adoption of a British Standard, actually makes sites easier to navigate,
> ...


I totally agree here!


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

All I can add is this :-

Not being in anyway able to comment on the technical stuff I can say that since my new site launched I am ram packed with bookings Monday to Sunday for 6 weeks and turned down 6 jobs last week.

I get 50 times more visitors than I did and it is the best business decision I made since I started.


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

Showshine said:


> All I can add is this :-
> 
> Not being in anyway able to comment on the technical stuff I can say that since my new site launched I am ram packed with bookings Monday to Sunday for 6 weeks and turned down 6 jobs last week.
> 
> I get 50 times more visitors than I did and it is the best business decision I made since I started.


Your site is nice and I'm glad you recognise it's value 

Also very glad you are doing so well!


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## walker1967 (Sep 12, 2010)

AboveFunction said:


> £175 :0 That's extremely cheap, are you sure they never used a template or was it a favor from a friend?
> 
> A logo along would got at least 3 times that from the people I work with and web sites vary massively on price but for £175 I would spend a day on it and give you a one page site with the main information! If that was including hosting you got a cracking deal because that alone is around £50!


It was through Bt and GBBO, they said I was getting a "Professionally Designed Web Site" to me that said I would be getting something that actually looked good which it doesnt. I tweaked it a bit myself and its a bit better now but still not the best but at this moment in time with the little one here now I cant find the cash to get a decent one built


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

AboveFunction said:


> It is just like when you look at cars, I look at web sites in the same way and think god you could get so much more from your site!


What would you say are the most important things for a site, a car related one for example.

Do you have any examples of ones you have viewed and been impressed with and those that have fell short


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

GJM said:


> What would you say are the most important things for a site, a car related one for example.
> 
> Do you have any examples of ones you have viewed and been impressed with and those that have fell short


Important things are contact details, easy to find prices and services on offer, examples of work and a clean usable design / layout.

On a site that is selling products I would say contact information, item prices and delivery costs and delivery times to name a few.

I don't want to call out any web sites.


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

Prism Detailing said:


> As for mine, I invested in a web developer to make mine, ironically I have a degree in web development but finanially more feasible to have someone else do it.


Nice site, what sort of money are you talking here for that level of site, also do you pay for SEO on top


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

James B said:


> Im never happy with our website, but for me its a pain, iv had someone (a pro) design and build a site for me before, and altho i spent what id say was a fair enough amount, it was still not right, he did not listen to me, grasp the concept of what we do, or give me what i wanted (and the guy was a pain to deal with) i have talked to other designers as im looking to fully rebuild the sites and get them back to just one site at some point in the near future, iv even started looking for who i want to build the new site, but out of the 5-10 iv had meetings with etc only 1 has actually listened to what i want and not instantly had an idea (or more than likely a theme) they want to go with and then try to tell me what i want rather than give me what i want.
> 
> Just to add i dont think 1K is bad money to spend on a good website at all.


I've found that when dealing with web designers, they don't seem too keen on listening.

To the OP and any other experts out there, take James site for example.

How big an impact does the following factors have.

Meta description = 167 characters, it's beem said should be 70-160
Text/HTML ratio = quite low, should it be a lot more?
Flash content homepage - Can this hamper indexing
W3C errors - again can this hamper indexing


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

AboveFunction said:


> Important things are contact details, easy to find prices and services on offer, examples of work and a clean usable design / layout.
> 
> On a site that is selling products I would say contact information, item prices and delivery costs and delivery times to name a few.
> 
> I don't want to call out any web sites.


So to see these things, you need to land on the site, guess that's another issue.

Did you do the Scotspeed site, is that this wordpress mentioned?

The useability of the site is terrible, title is just 'home', W3C shows lots of errors, server load time is horrendous which is down to hosting


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

GJM said:


> So to see these things, you need to land on the site, guess that's another issue.
> 
> Did you do the Scotspeed site, is that this wordpress mentioned?
> 
> The useability of the site is terrible, title is just 'home', W3C shows lots of errors, server load time is horrendous which is down to hosting


I done the old Scotpseed web site but that business now has new owners and the site has another design but what I think is the owners son or nephew.


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

GJM said:


> I've found that when dealing with web designers, they don't seem too keen on listening.
> 
> To the OP and any other experts out there, take James site for example.
> 
> ...


Meta Description has been depreciated by search engines as being important it is basically now just a description and going over does no bad but it does no good either.

Text to HTML ratio, if the text is good and the content rich then this won't matter. If they can add valuable content with good keywords then yes this would help.

Flash can't be seen by search engines, they can't read it so it is indeed no good. It also means apple mobile or ipad users can't see it as they don't support flash. Using something like jQuery or HTML5 would fix this.

W3C Errors, this one depends. I wouldn't rely on this but it is a good guideline... you shouldn't have major errors on the validator but then again you don't need to get it validated completely - some warnings and errors may be for using technologies that enhance the user experience but aren't fully supported yet i.e. CSS3 and HTML5


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

AboveFunction said:


> I done the old Scotpseed web site but that business now has new owners and the site has another design but what I think is the owners son or nephew.


I thought it differed from what it was showcased as.

Do you have an opinion on the pro's/cons of the following sites

http://www.ssandp.co.uk/

http://www.torquesor.com/

The second one is marketed as a 'script' not sure if that's a good or bad thing, it also seems to be tailored to suit mobile browsing, however the logo seems to get in the way of contact details on main page


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## AboveFunction (Aug 8, 2011)

GJM said:


> I thought it differed from what it was showcased as.
> 
> Do you have an opinion on the pro's/cons of the following sites
> 
> ...


These sites aren't about detailing, so now you are just looking for advice...

So since you have devalued my advice, I will give you advice that matches the value you put on it... first one ok second one not so much

:lol:


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

Sorry don't see why you think I don't value advice.

You seem to have came under friendly fire from others, I quite like that you point out bad points as if they are corrected then all good, be it a detailing site, car site, DIY site etc.

I'm just interested in general opinions of whats good an whats not, what to go for and what to avoid.

Your critisicm of sites were not really about the 'detailing' aspect as such, more like poor info on site, postage info and colour of background while in cart etc.


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## Faysal (Oct 23, 2010)

robertdon777 said:


> If people want to build their own sites, stay away from Mr Site and buy the book Wordpress for dummies.
> 
> Spend a while reading that and buy a Wordpress theme and install it. You will then have a slick (working wise) website that is easily customised (once you understand Wordpress)
> 
> ...


Now that's a good site!!!!


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

I made our valeting site myself, all it cost was a few pounds for the domain names. It served a purpose at the time but we now need to step up our game and make it look more professional. 

I'm only really happy to do this though now that we have seen a return on my original home made site and can justify the costs within our advertising budget. I think perhaps a lot of detailers will have taken the same approach, its difficult to justify an outlay, especially in the infancy of a business, when there are many other costs you have to meet. 

Our philosophy is we don't mind spending £1,000 as long as we see at least a £1,010 return. But all advertising is speculation, so you never know what return you will see when you first commit to it.

So let the bidding commence....


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

Waxamomo said:


> With regards to the design looking "dated" and "flung together", now that did hurt my feelings and I may not sleep tonight, thank god you never seen my original site that Waxamomo started with :lol::lol:


Sorry but is it only me that thinks e-mailing a company and saying that their site looks "flung together" is toss? (if i've got it right and that's what was said to you?)

But they run a succsesful (sp) business, where I imagine it realies alot on online sales. I've order from them before and had no problem's doing so. Although like you say it's your line of work and something your "into", whereas me i'm into detailing and when someone says "you should see my new car, it's really nice" All I look for is paint condition, cleaned arches, straight/consitent panel gaps etc.

Also this sounds asthough it's aimed at online Retailer's not Detailer's. Imo detailing is a niche market and the huge amount of people that talk about making repeat order's on here are from customer service, I always order from companies that i've had good service from (CYC, Waxamomo and PB - these 3 of the top of my head)

And if it is Detailer's alot of people getting there car detailed will have 1) saw some shiny pics, looked at the price and said they want that, 2) been recommended to use them 3) saw the work for themself.

So if it's actual work the Detailer will get repeat work.

Sorry if this sounds a rant, but just reading it how I had seemed unfair and to call someones website "dated" and "flung together"


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