# whats best?



## sharpie (Apr 9, 2007)

right i know everyone says avoid acidic wheels cleaner but what about alkaline?

the bodyshop i work at has just taken in some cartec products and from what i can see and have used so far they seem good for the money but the non acidic wheel cleaner says it has a pH of 14 and is brilliant at cleaning wheels even ones off reps cars :lol: 

i accidently mixed some cartec with the old acid stuff they used and the bottle almost melted with the chemical reaction so i thought as acid burns what does the alkaline do?

still great wheel cleaner no brushes required just spray on leave a few minutes then pw off with either hot or cold water and roberts your mums brother


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## Wozza (Mar 3, 2007)

*Alkali
In chemistry, a base that is soluble in water. Alkalis neutralize acids, and solutions of alkalis are soapy to the touch. The strength of an alkali is measured by its hydrogen-ion concentration, indicated by the pH value. They may be divided into strong and weak alkalis: a strong alkali (for example, potassium hydroxide, KOH) ionizes completely when dissolved in water, whereas a weak alkali (for example, ammonium hydroxide, NH4OH) exists in a partially ionized state in solution. All alkalis have a pH above 7.0.
The hydroxides of metals are alkalis. Those of sodium and potassium are corrosive; both were historically derived from the ashes of plants.
The four main alkalis are sodium hydroxide (caustic soda, NaOH); potassium hydroxide (caustic potash, KOH); calcium hydroxide (slaked lime or limewater, Ca(OH)2); and aqueous ammonia (NH3(aq)). Their solutions all contain the hydroxide ion OH-, which gives them a characteristic set of properties. 
*


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## sunnyV5 (Jul 26, 2006)

When I did A-level chemistry, I learnt that strong alkalis are worse than strong acids. If the alkali splashes into your eye, for example, it causes more damage 

Though, I don't know how this would effect cleaning and safeness for wheels


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## sharpie (Apr 9, 2007)

thats what i'm asking which is safer? i know i like the alkaline stuff for ease of use but is it as bad for the wheels as acidic?


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## ukimportz (Mar 23, 2007)

autobrite brite wheels (non acid) absolutely brillant stuff


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## karl_liverpool (Sep 25, 2008)

if the wheels are bad i use the cartec wheel cleaner if not too grimy i just use some apc undiluted does the job and the one i use is no harsher than dish soap, after cleaning rims i always add wheel wax


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## 1Valet PRO (Nov 2, 2005)

sharpie said:


> thats what i'm asking which is safer? i know i like the alkaline stuff for ease of use but is it as bad for the wheels as acidic?


this all depends on the type of alkaline or the type of acid.

For instant we have two types of acid wheel cleaner one is aluminum and stainless steel safe and non corosive and the other is not. But both are 1ph.

This is much the same as alkalines. You can have two blended alkaline product at the high end of the ph table and one could be corosive and one not.

Obviously the closer you get to PH neutral the safer the product is. Adding water to a product can also make a big differance to the PH levels. But quite often PH neutral product are less effective. Obviously this is not always the case but it takes a very good chemist to make an effective PH neutral product for cleaning wheels. CLeaning general grime off wheels whith a ph neutral product is quite easy but asking a PH neutral product to clean baked on brake dust is not easy. We are dedicated to making an effective PH neutral wheel cleaner which to a degree we have done but its not effective enothe to remove the level of bake on wheel dust for my liking.

So the payoff for PH neutral is cleaning power. When it comes to cleaning wheels you need to think about what your cleaning. If there regualy cleaned and don't build up with baked on wheel dust a car shampoo or even our PH neutral Snow foam will do the job quite adiquatly. But baked on wheel dust needs some thing stronge. A good quality alkilane wheel cleaner is far safer than a safe acid wheel cleaner and is a good choice for moderate build up of bake on wheel dust. However there are time when you need to hit wheels with strong acid wheel cleaner like hydrocolric. Our acid wheel cleaners are gel form due to the fact that gels don't dry out as quickly. Plus they cling to the wheel surface better and don't need to be as strong. Acid causes problems more when they start to dry out so choising a gel product is a good idea. Most wheel these day are painted and laquired. SO you need to think about the effect on this surface too. Some alkilaine and acid wheel cleaner could and will dull painted surface if left too long.

No simple answer here but i think t helps.


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## 190Evoluzione (Jun 27, 2007)

1Valet PRO said:


> Obviously the closer you get to PH neutral the safer the product is.
> So the payoff for PH neutral is cleaning power.


This is pretty much the case for all professional industrial products from car paint to removing / cleaning fluids.
If it does an amazing job, it's highly toxic or corrosive, and cheap to manufacture.
If it's 'environmentally sound', it does a mediocre job requiring more manual effort, and is more expensive to manufacture.

Similar equation to the cost of Recycling vs Landfill.


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## Qook (Sep 17, 2008)

davemarkey said:


> When I did A-level chemistry, I learnt that strong alkalis are worse than strong acids. If the alkali splashes into your eye, for example, it causes more damage
> 
> Though, I don't know how this would effect cleaning and safeness for wheels


That is because strong alkalis will convert fats into soap - including body fats. They also heat up when mixed with water, making it more hazardous to rinse off.


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2008)

1Valet PRO said:


> A good quality alkilane wheel cleaner is far safer than a safe acid wheel cleaner and is a good choice for moderate build up of bake on wheel dust.


Great explination 

I was wondering could you clarify that a bit more, as I heard alkali's are more damaging to metals and can eat through the protection layers more easier than equivilant pH acids. Or do you mean a good quality alkali blend will be better than a good quality acid blend?

I am guessing here though that a lot of these "acid-free" formulations are just simply redicliously strong alkali's (pH14) and in some cases it might be better sticking with a good acid product vs a lesser well known alkali product, because the well known acid product will have a more gentle blend whereas the lesser well known alkali product will have a nasty blend in order to make it cheap to produce?


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