# Bmw m5 (f10) merino leather cracking



## sunnydude959 (Jan 3, 2014)

Hi guys

On my 2013 BMW M5, the merino (semi-analine) leather appears to be cracking. I regularly clean it with Dr Leather and I have used his anti-dye transfer 'dye block', which means that the seats are still very clean and matte in finish. However, there seems to be a region on the bottom cushion on the driver's seat which appears to be cracking (also, im a heavy lad). This was most probably caused by me sitting on it, however I wanted to ask about what can be done to stop this becoming worse? At the moment its bothering me too much, but I dont want it to turn into an eyesore!


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

Dont think you can do much about that apart from a repair.

Looking at where the cracks are on the seat, wouldn't say its your backside that's doing the damage. It seems further up near your left thigh. 

Ive seen F10 M5's with 40k+ miles on them and they had seats which were crack free. 

Its basically cracked because its too tight i.e. leather is drying out

My car has 35k on it and its a 2012 and doesn't have any cracks whatsoever, just normal creases, granted its not BMW Merino leather but its pretty close.

Probably should have used some sort of conditioner - Ive just opened a hate post up here - going to get damned with "modern leather doesn't need conditioner" talk.


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## sunnydude959 (Jan 3, 2014)

Yeah I used to use conditioner on my seats on previous cars (autoglym leather balm), but I then read the 10000 posts on here that says its bad for leather and all i need is a cleaner and protector, so I stopped bothering with it.

The leather always felt nicer after using autoglym leather balm, but I suppose I just went along with the advice on here.


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## judyb (Sep 7, 2007)

Conditioners will not stop damage to the pigment. Top coatings on leather will wear over tme and can be caused by many things 
If the leather is a 'semi aniline' (not entirely sure that this is correct) the top coatings would be lighter anyway and therefore more prone to wear 
This will only be solved by having a repair done - the damage will only continue now to get worse so now is a good time to have it restored as less work needs to be done.

Hope this helps
Judyb


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

sunnydude959 said:


> Yeah I used to use conditioner on my seats on previous cars (autoglym leather balm), but I then read the 10000 posts on here that says its bad for leather and all i need is a cleaner and protector, so I stopped bothering with it.
> 
> The leather always felt nicer after using autoglym leather balm, but I suppose I just went along with the advice on here.


Merino is semi aniline by then so is merino on the other M5 F10s with 40k miles on them.


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## sunnydude959 (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm sure I read somewhere, if not a few places, that Merino is sheep leather and semi-analine.

Anyway, i've now conditioned my seats with AG Leather balm. I know there's the argument that i've heard around here that it just makes it feel softer because the conditioner is sitting on top of the leather and so just gives the impression of being softer, but really doesnt explain how my leather is now far more supple and non-stiff. I can now press further into my leather than i could before i applied conditioner to it.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

sunnydude959 said:


> I'm sure I read somewhere, if not a few places, that Merino is sheep leather and semi-analine.
> 
> Anyway, i've now conditioned my seats with AG Leather balm. I know there's the argument that i've heard around here that it just makes it feel softer because the conditioner is sitting on top of the leather and so just gives the impression of being softer, but really doesnt explain how my leather is now far more supple and non-stiff. I can now press further into my leather than i could before i applied conditioner to it.


That's also something I never understood too. My leather also feels softer after using something like gliptone conditioner. Maybe it's not making the leather itself softer but it's definitely making the top coat softer


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## judyb (Sep 7, 2007)

Merino leather is described as Full Grain leather with no surface treatment - this is not the case here as the surface has definitely been coated and finished (this is what is cracking) 
Conditioners are not required on modern finished leather as they do not require the addition of oils and waxes and these can be counter productive. Adding cnditioners to the surface will give the impression that the leather has been softened but the oils will not sit on the surface and attract more dirt which will speed up the break down of the surface coatings.
Adding conditioners to cracked leather can interfere with any repair or restoration work that is required
Hope this helps
Judyb


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## Dr Leather (Sep 8, 2010)

To me the picture indicates that a 'loose' area of the skin/hide has been used in that area. It's not semi-aniline as you can clearly see it has quite a coat of pigment on the surface. My thoughts are that the main leather under the finish has deformed a large amount and the finish has not been able to match the movement. This in itself is odd as the resins should be of a high extension, but if there is some incompatibility of the materials then this will occur as the adhesion of the resin wins over the amount of elongation.

Truthfully I would take it back to BMW for review.

Rgds

Dr Leather


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## zippo (Mar 26, 2008)

Sunnydude959 that's a brilliant picture of the damage Is photography a hobby of yours
Daz


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## Rundie (Oct 2, 2007)

I think you're best to return it to BMW to sort, print out the opinions of the Leather experts on here and show it to the dealer, should be cut and dry.
I had the seat base leather replaced under warranty on my X5 E70 and had I paid for it they wanted £600 plus !!


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## sunnydude959 (Jan 3, 2014)

Dr Leather said:


> To me the picture indicates that a 'loose' area of the skin/hide has been used in that area. It's not semi-aniline as you can clearly see it has quite a coat of pigment on the surface. My thoughts are that the main leather under the finish has deformed a large amount and the finish has not been able to match the movement. This in itself is odd as the resins should be of a high extension, but if there is some incompatibility of the materials then this will occur as the adhesion of the resin wins over the amount of elongation.
> 
> Truthfully I would take it back to BMW for review.
> 
> ...


Ah brilliant, thank you for that. It turns out that i'm going to BMW on Wednesday to sort out a whining noise, so i'll run it past them.


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## sunnydude959 (Jan 3, 2014)

zippo said:


> Sunnydude959 that's a brilliant picture of the damage Is photography a hobby of yours
> Daz


Thank you  - I actually just used the camera on my iPhone 6S! I brought the phone away from the seat and then zoomed in, and tapped on it to focus and sort out brightness etc. automatically

It does struggle with exterior shots of paint marring etc, but I still manage to get by with it!


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## DJBAILEY (May 7, 2011)

Could you have kneeled on your seat and your weight on your knee stretched the leather and top coat? I have seen stretch spots like that take a long time to recover. Maybe it was stretched too far.


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## vtaylor78 (Feb 21, 2012)

Whatever the cause that's not good on a vehicle of that value.
I would definatly go back to dealer , and see what they say.
I seems you look after the leather so no fault of yours, also you mention your size ? I can't see from the photos that has caused it.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

^^ agreed 

Everyone seems to think leather is some form of super delicate silk. The fact of the matter is that it shouldn't have happened regardless of your weight and especially in such as localised area unless there's some form of defect or its been deliberately damaged. 3 years isn't that long either.

Lets not forget that modern leather is NOT as delicate as everyone makes out, you can use all purpose cleaners to clean them without any adverse effects at a medium dilution (things like Megs APC at 10:1).

Some detailers regularly use APC's and the only reason many people use "leather cleaners" is down to marketing!


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## Dr Leather (Sep 8, 2010)

Rayaan said:


> Some detailers regularly use APC's and the only reason many people use "leather cleaners" is down to marketing!


Frankly this is not the case with our product. If you understood all of the technologies used, you would not be using APC on a regular basis.......


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

Dr Leather said:


> Frankly this is not the case with our product. If you understood all of the technologies used, you would not be using APC on a regular basis.......


Thats all well and good but surely you can't really say that when its been done for the past 7 years on my fathers car by myself with no issues? Its not like its been done once a year either. The car gets absolutely filthy with all sorts of stuff from building sites, parks and even mud after gardening so needs doing atleast every 3 months!

Theres nothing to suggest the leather is cracked, hard, discoloured or feels any different to what it did when it was new. The leather still wont let water go through so its not affected the coating either.

I wouldnt be surprised if some leather cleaners were watered down APC.

Im not saying go out and buy some G101 as its strong but Meguiars APC is certainly safe for leather, it even says on the back (lol marketing!!)

Like I said - there are multiple products e.g. leather cleaners, dashboard cleaners, tyre cleaners, upholstery cleaners, headliner cleaners, vinyl cleaners, plastic cleaners, the list goes on and on but usually APC can be used on all of these if you dont go making some crazy 1:5 dilution!


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## sunnydude959 (Jan 3, 2014)

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the replies. I took it to BMW and they've agreed to change the seat under warranty as premature wear  

...However I told them not to wash my car, but they did anyway and now i'm getting some hologramming/swirls under single-source LED light and direct sunlight :/ :/ :/


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## FallenAngel (Oct 24, 2015)

That much damage from a single wash? Bloody hell , did they wash it with a freaking brick?:wall: I would be so ****ed, IT'S AN M5 for god sake.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

FallenAngel said:


> That much damage from a single wash? Bloody hell , did they wash it with a freaking brick?:wall: I would be so ****ed, IT'S AN M5 for god sake.


Most likely stuck it through the brush wash.

Damn that Sakhir Orange is a nice colour as well....


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## sunnydude959 (Jan 3, 2014)

The swirls were slowly building up from regular washing to be fair, but it probably doubled after they washed it.

There were a few patches of dirt still left on the car so I presume that they used a sponge in dirty water from washing other cars followed by drying it with a dirty cloth, dragging the dirt across the paint. They don't use a car wash machine as they do it in a half-covered area with pressure washers etc. at the back of the dealership car park.

Being careful with my description of them to stay within the law, they didn't seem the sort who would know much about detailing but much rather the ones who occupy abandoned fuel stations with a hand written sign outside that reads "HAND JOB CAR WASH £5 INSIDE OUTSIDE TYRE SHINE" and will almost certainly be voting for the UK to stay within the EU


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