# Front end repaint quality opinions please



## Guest

Hi All,

Appreciate your opinions and advice on this please.

Had some paintwork carried out this week that was planned to include -

- Brand new genuine VW/Seat bonnet.
- Tops of wings blended to match.
- Front bumper and grilles.
- Mirrors

Unfortunately I believe the standard may have slipped well below what I can and should expect. My car is well above average condition with 100% original paint and consider the new paint to quite obviously below the quality of the original.

Very disappointed! - I've yet to take it up with the company concerned - not really looking forward to that! - My confidence in them being able to rectify the many issues is 0%!!

I wont go into it everything yet till I've discussed it with them but would appreciate your opinion on the images below which I believe to be issues:

I'am so gutted!

heavy application and runs:








rough masking/edges - excess cut roughly with knife:








Bumper to wing edge - Rough paint edge, flaking paint applied over grease/dirt, contamination, silicone craters, sagging, running, distorted profile, rough surface extending onto wing surface:
































Drips on bonnet braking off:


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## IanA

Truly shocking paintwork. Not sure if trading standards would be interested in looking into this? Some of the prep looks as bad as the finish. I am so sorry they have messed things up for you. Speak to my good friend Alex at http://www.bodybeautifulcarsltd.com/ he might be able to tell you what you can do about it.

Ian


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## Guest

A perfectly smooth panel with a little original factory orange peal now with a top coat so thick and uneven/mottled it gives the impression the panels dented.









Runs in topcoat around indicator:








stand marks:


















Overspray misting visible all over all 4 very rare NOS OZ alloys and also on exterior plastics including bizarrely the rear mudflaps and exhaust tailpipes. Its also underneath on my recently restored and powdercoated suspension components.


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## Yowfailed

I think that my opinion would be very similar to yours mate. I'd feel like wrapping it round someone's neck! Truly a crap job of epic proportion.


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## IanA

Second lot of pics show its worse than first thought. Seriously mate, I feel for you. Bodywork is like detailing, an art. If you can't do it, leave the bloody thing alone. Best of luck sorting this out mate, I hope you get the answers and the finish you want


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## avit88

in a word terrible plus the front of the car will look a different shade to the back now because the paint is newer and i do believe the front will now rust faster if it has been repainted so ul no longer have vag corrosion protection layer

looks like they just dumped the paint on top

feel for u mate


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## eddie bullit

That is really terrible. How did you pay for this? I'd be asking for a full refund as theres no way they cold ever do a decent job looking at those pics. 
Keep us all up to speed mate.
Good luck with it :thumb:
Edd.


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## Gizmo68

Pretty shocking, at first I though the run was not too much of an issue as it looks like the headlight would cover it so it would never be seen.
But looking at the rest then it is pretty poor, the car has not been masked up (wheels bagged) properly and the masking work has been done by a chimp, quite simple take it back and kick off - politely at first, point out all the bits that are not acceptable and tell them you expect ALL of these issues to be rectified.

I assume this was not insurance work? if it was then tell your insurance company that the standard of work is not acceptable.


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## Andyb0127

That is truly shocking and totally unbelievable. Cr4p job from start to do finish.

This may sound harsh but I hope you haven't paid for this. If it was me i would of left the car there for them to put right no way would I of accepted that. Who ever recommended this bodyshop to you. Who ever did it shouldnt be aloud to prep or spray cars.

That looks like its been done in 2k problem with these yellows is they don't cover very well, so looks like they over applied it to try and compensate for it fatal mistake doesn't work. well let's hope they put it right.


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## Guest

Thanks for the replies!

These really are the tip of the iceberg! I spent a very depressing morning outside with a pen and pad writing a LONG list of defects.

I don't think there is any sizeable area that hasn't got some sort of issue. Contamination is a very big problem everywhere!

Bottom rear of OS fr wing:









Your right about the colour to its evidently different. The wing top was intended to be blended to eliminate this but the whole wing has been worked which means it now stands out against the door! There's not even a near match to the adjacent factory orange peal!

Its so sad! maybe I am a little to trusting!


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## ITHAQVA

:doublesho:doublesho Very poor work.


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## squiggs

What was the asking price for this terrible workmanship?


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## Rgk Detailing

Shocking mate! the painter has obviously cut a few corners to get the job done as quickly as possible!

hope you are successful in having these issues sorted!


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## IanA

I don't think you are too trusting mate, you pay decent money, you expect to get a decent job. They should be done for criminal damage!


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## Guest

I obviously need to talk to them!

Whilst I totally understand giving the opportunity to put things right - its now very hard to trust this can be done.

With it obviously requiring an extensive rework I doubt they will want to either!
- especially as I know they are extremely busy which as Rgk says may have 
ment extreme corner cutting on what might be considered by some to be an 
inconsequential car/job.


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## PootleFlump

Doesn't look good, a few tiny defects are almost par for the course but paint runs are a joke. Trying to match factory paintwork can be pretty tough which is why I hate having paintwork done on a car because it's almost always possible to spot.


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## rsblue

Thats one **** job!!!! They should be hung up for that get your dollar back get it into someone who can paint!!!!


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## craigeh123

Christ that's poor , I mean you can forgive the odd nib here and there but fullblown 
Runs left until you picked it up is just poor


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## Guest

I'd like to get a professional second opinion? Any recommendations for this?

Would be good to get a professional detailers eye on this also I think!

Thanks,


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## rf860

C11PRA DC said:


> I'd like to get a professional second opinion? Any recommendations for this?
> 
> Would be good to get a professional detailers eye on this also I think!
> 
> Thanks,


Just shown them this thread!!

I'm picking my car up tomorrow from the bodyshop and if it's anything like this, i will not be able to control myself lol.

Feel for you though, these things always cause a lot of aggrevation and uspet. Hopefully it all turns out ok for you.

PS. i've been following your thread on this car - excellent work!


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## arbth703

Thats the worst paintjob ive seen, you could have done better with a rattle can, I had the wheel arches done on my old rover and the guy sprayed the insides of the arches and the rear SEATS, then put the finished car outside in the rain 4hrs later ready for me too pick up, Rain spots in paint. Needless to say I didnt pay or collect my vehicle until he had started all over again and payed for my rear seat to be cleaned.

I was told by a friend to use him!! It is really difficult to find a decent bodyshop both work wise and price wise.


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## Andyb0127

Well if I prepped a car and painted it like that. Then gave it back to the customer, I'd expect them to go ballistic.
Mind you if i turned out a job like that I'd give up spraying cars.

My honest opinion you should name the bodyshop that did it, so people know to steer clear of this rip off merchant, shouldn't be aloud to go any where near cars.


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## Guest

When matching colour I have been previously told that you can send a piece of body work to be matched against - such as a fuel filler flap - to get a perfect match. Is this true?

I said this to the painter before the work began and expressed my concern at achieving a match, and was assured that there was no need and that they always order on the code alone.

The new paint does appear to have more blue in it making the yellow more green/lemon.

Thanks,


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## eddie bullit

A decent bodyshop will be able to match perfectly or will suggest blowing over the whole side. They should have the facilities to "read" the paint to get a match. Going off paint code alone is not enough if the car is a good few years old as it will have been affected by UV. So it may be slightly lighter than original. 
Look mate go to see them by all means. Stay calm, have a list of the areas that require attention and forcefully, but professionally, tell them that you are not happy what you expect from them quality wise. If you are unsure then walk away and contact Trading Standards, I'd do this anyway, and log your complaint. They will tell you to put in writing your problems and suggest a plan of action. 
You can say that you have lost all faith in their ability to rectify the problems that are present, due to their very poor attempt. It may help also to visit an established bodyshop to have a report done on their workmanship.
Good Luck
Edd


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## Andyb0127

C11PRA DC said:


> When matching colour I have been previously told that you can send a piece of body work to be matched against - such as a fuel filler flap - to get a perfect match. Is this true?
> 
> I said this to the painter before the work began and expressed my concern at achieving a match, and was assured that there was no need and that they always order on the code alone.
> 
> The new paint does appear to have more blue in it making the yellow more green/lemon.
> 
> Thanks,


Yes that is true they would send the petrol flap of to match it. There is also a scanner that will colour match.
The machine in question is a spectrophotometer. You need a reasonably-sized sample of the paint (a fuel filler cap, or small piece of bike fairing is fine) and this is then scanned.

Some machines return the closest match from their pre-existing recipe database of factory reproduction colours, others will generate a one-off recipe.

There are varying levels of technology (and expense!) that give different results as regards things like particulates, match under different wavelengths of visible light, etc. It is _not_ the case of "get it scanned, you'll get a perfect matching paint". Perfect matches don't exist as a matter of science (see Wikipedia on "colour perception" and "metamerism" )

To this extent, the paintshop doing the reproduction gets what they paid for - so for a good all-round result, it'd be worth going somewhere with a more expensive spectrophotometer system.

A good sprayer will be able to colour match. But to me from your pictures this doesn't even look like its been done in clear over base. Which it should have if they were intending on blending the colour, which they say they were. 
If your anywhere near Brentwood I'd be more than happy to look at it and do a report on it for you.


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## Guest

Heres some more images of the bumper and associated grilles:

This is turning into a nightmare!! Just been emailed with a final break down of costs which is over £300 more than the quote:

Bonnet £250
Blend wings £140x2
bumper, bumper grill and fog covers £150
Front grill with repair £90
Mirror caps £80

Total = £850

Fog surround! both where brand new genuine SEAT parts in the supplied factory primer!


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## Guest

Bumper contamination!
































What is this in the paint - speckles of contamination????


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## rf860

Those prices are expensive. If you haven't paid it, i wouldn't give him a penny and go elsewhere!


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## EcosseGP

No don't pay him a penny until YOU are satisfied with the job. I certainly wouldn't be giving him a penny and wouldn't be going back to get him to correct the poor job either. If h turns out work like that he'll not last long ... I could do better in the dark, whilst its windy with a spray can !


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## Guest

Anyone of the opinion these defects could be removed/rectified without starting again?

I'll be worrying about this all night!


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## gally

I wouldn't be worried about the colour match at the moment. Simply take the panels back and explained you're not happy and won't be paying until it's done right. 

You can't pay for work like that. 

As for the match I think it will be a mile off. How can you match or pick a colour without seeing the car in question. Impossible.


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## toddy23

the whole job need rubbing back down and started again,they have over applied the colour which has very poor coverage to start with and got runs,****e and looks like solvent pop,,,,,THAT NEED RUBBED DOWN AND RE-DONE,and it is hard getting edge to edge colours matched perfect thats why they wanted to blend the wings,,,,,if it was me i would sand the whole thing back with 400 discs,strip the doors out(handles etc)and blend the doors now for colour to match perfect but say you dont want the apprentice doing it


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## eddie bullit

I'd put it all your complaints in writing to be honest. Go with a list. Typed out and printed, keeping a copy for yourself. TBH I wouldnt be going back there as even if the juniors done the work it should be quality checked prior to release. 
I'd write a letter stating you have no intention to pay, print off copy of the pics to back up your letter, and that it is going to cost more than initially expected now as your panels will now have to under go more prep work prior to painting. Definatley contact trading standards..and quote the relevant supply of goods and services act.
Whetever you do don't pay cash! If you do decide to let them have another go and they do a decent job, but you start to notice stuff a few months down the line. If you've paid via credit card you will be able to contact the card company for back up/refund.
Edd

ps those prices are a joke! what about the cost of spraying all over your plastics and exhaust! ******s!


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## Black-Hawk

You'll probably find your car is clear over base from the factory and they've used a 2k acrylic to cut corners, yellow is infamous for being transparent and therefore requires a ground coat (usually white) to cover primed panels, they've cut another corner by not doing this and have been cought out and have over applied the topcoat in am attempt to get coverage, can you speak to someone with a paint depth gauge to check how much product has been applied as this could be a future issue, what cost was the repair as you usually get what you pay for unfortunately


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## squiggs

For that sort of price you should be expecting a flawless job, you obviously didn't go for cheap yet have received a very poor job.
It can all be corrected by rubbing back each defect and respraying - whether I'd trust them to have another go is a different matter.
However (and I could be wrong?) ... but I'm under the impression that you have to give the shop at least one oppotunity to rectify defects before taking the matter further.


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## arbth703

I cant believe how bad that is and how much it cost, ask em when stevie wonder came to work for them. That really is the worst paintjob ive seen. Take a print out of these posts and show em what other people think of their work. If you decided to let people in the local area know they would lose all their trade without question..


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## d7ve_b

Who did the work? I just want to make sure I don't go there!


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## Andyb0127

C11PRA DC said:


> Anyone of the opinion these defects could be removed/rectified without starting again?
> 
> I'll be worrying about this all night!


Sorry to be the bearer of bad news fella. But where the runs are it has solvent boiled, so it will need flatting and starting again. Solvent boil leaves tiny pinholes when flatted, it just over application and the solvents boil.


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## Black-Hawk

Get it sorted elsewhere, dont pay for work like that, imo the bonnet and wings need paint stripping and not sanding as sanding in this instance could distort bonnet skin, any new plastics is want replacing at the bodyshops expense, would now also require a blend into doors, spoken to citizens advice bureau?


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## mikey_d

This workmanship ( if you class it as that) is simply disgusting did thay actually call you and embaress them selfs by saying this is a finished job if i was you i would collect my things not pay a single pound and take them elce whare to be done properly Also as mentiond will now need blending to the doors. At there expense. I think you should name and shame the company


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## Guest

Thanks all for your responses.

When I picked the car up Fri and before I inspected it Sat morning I was told there was "Just a couple of things that would need tidying up at a later date" and WAS shown a small chip on the edge of the bonnet and and a small area of roughness in that area - THATS IT.

I emailed them on Sun to express I wasn't happy and NOW! apparently there was more "sanding and polishing to be done to finish" - never mentioned this to me before!!

I went to see them tonight to discuss - without the car (its not moved since I picked it up) - and asked them to be specific on the areas that NOW need "sanding, polishing to finish" and they couldn't - apparently not aware of ANY of the faults shown in this thread.
Pretty hard to believe he'd forget as its a one man operation and he did all the work !

Mentioned some issues and been given the option of attempting to re do the work. 
On the basis of the very poor quality shown I will never trust the workmanship on a second attempt and so the car will never be the same to me.

Do you have to give them an opportunity to rectify this mess? If forced into this how can you ever be happy! - I don't want them to touch it again! As said here their **** up will most likely add additional unnecessary work into the doors.

Anyone recommend a independent accessor.


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## toddy23

i wouldnt let them paint my garden fence after what i have seen them do to yours,they wont use paint stripper as its to messy,just wants a good rub down again and start again,its all in the prep now coz if its not prepped right now it will be a right mess when finished as every imperfection now will show even more


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## happmadison1978

So sorry mate!! 

What did he do it with? I'm thinking it's one of:

1. A toothbrush and a ruler to flick it with,
2. He drank 5 litres of yellow with a box of laxatives and just noisily sh4t it on.
3. One tin of yellow line paint and a hand grenade.

Maybe next time Get Stephen Hawking to have a bash with a roller. (sorry not meaning to make light of your suffering just utterly shocked!

REALLY hope you get it sorted!


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## paulmc08

A shocking disgrace rounded off by a ridiculous price

Maybe send Kelly at KDS an email,he may be able to put you in the right direction

either way I hope you get it sorted


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## eddie bullit

Have you spoken to trading standards yet? If not then get a move on! Pointless asking on here really as you need to log your complaint ASAP and get the information from the horse's mouth. They deal with these matters on a daily basis. Get in touch and stop wasting time!
GOOD LUCK WITH IT :thumb:
Edd


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## eddie bullit

Is this an actual bodyshop or was it a one man band mechanic come do it all? Does he have proper facilities?


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## Guest

eddie bullit said:


> Is this an actual bodyshop or was it a one man band mechanic come do it all? Does he have proper facilities?


I understand they have read this thread and may be along shortly to offer some sort of explanation.


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## eddie bullit

That'll be some explanation!
"You see I left home without my glasses that morning blah blah blah" :lol:


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## squiggs

C11PRA DC said:


> Thanks all for your responses.
> 
> When I picked the car up Fri and before I inspected it Sat morning I was told there was "Just a couple of things that would need tidying up at a later date" and WAS shown a small chip on the edge of the bonnet and and a small area of roughness in that area - THATS IT.
> 
> I emailed them on Sun to express I wasn't happy and NOW! apparently there was more "sanding and polishing to be done to finish" - never mentioned this to me before!!
> 
> I went to see them tonight to discuss - without the car (its not moved since I picked it up) - and asked them to be specific on the areas that NOW need "sanding, polishing to finish" and they couldn't - apparently not aware of ANY of the faults shown in this thread.
> Pretty hard to believe he'd forget as its a one man operation and he did all the work !
> 
> Mentioned some issues and been given the option of attempting to re do the work.
> On the basis of the very poor quality shown I will never trust the workmanship on a second attempt and so the car will never be the same to me.
> 
> Do you have to give them an opportunity to rectify this mess? If forced into this how can you ever be happy! - I don't want them to touch it again! As said here their **** up will most likely add additional unnecessary work into the doors.
> 
> Anyone recommend a independent accessor.


Given the appalling state of the work I think what you need is some legal advice.
You didn't go in at the cheap end of the market so you could have expected at least a half decent job. 
Until you know how you stand legally having an independent report won't mean a thing to the bloke that did it. All it's going to say is 'It's a crap job!' ... And if he's slightly amicable in accepting that his work's crap he might say 'no charge' - but then your still left with a load of rectification work that you can't force him to pay for. 
Have a word with trading standards and/or citizens advice.


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## Andyb0127

C11PRA DC said:


> I understand they have read this thread and may be along shortly to offer some sort of explanation.


Explanation know that will be a laugh, that will be as crap as his workmanship, he either brave or very stupid to think he can explain his way out if it. I wouldn't let him paint my push bike for fear of him screwing that up.
Why give him chance to rectify it probably make it worse, go to citizens advice see what they say.


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## SteveTDCi

I appreciate the work isn't 100% but suggesting citizens advice and trading standards won't help the situation, if it was me I would dig my heals in more. My feeling is they should be shown all of the areas where you are not happy, give them chance to rectify it on the understanding that if it isn't to your satisfaction no money will change hands.


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## john2garden

Give them a second chance to rectify everything first if not happy the second time round start a case with consumer direct etc.


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## squiggs

SteveTDCi said:


> I appreciate the work isn't 100% but suggesting citizens advice and trading standards won't help the situation, if it was me I would dig my heals in more. My feeling is they should be shown all of the areas where you are not happy, give them chance to rectify it on the understanding that if it isn't to your satisfaction no money will change hands.


But then if it's not put right the OP is left with a load of rectification that will probably cost more to put right that the original job cost.


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## SteveTDCi

possibly, or it might be perfection ....... the OP must have had confidence in the work originally to leave the car there in the first place, if he doesn't want them to touch the car then that's fair enough, but going straight to trading standards without showing the person why they refuse to pay is a little unfair. If its not solved straight away then just look at going through the small claims court .... although if the painter doesn't charge nothing for the repair then technically there is nothing to recover.


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## Guest

SteveTDCi said:


> possibly, or it might be perfection ....... the OP must have had confidence in the work originally to leave the car there in the first place, if he doesn't want them to touch the car then that's fair enough, but going straight to trading standards without showing the person why they refuse to pay is a little unfair. If its not solved straight away then just look at going through the small claims court .... although if the painter doesn't charge nothing for the repair then technically there is nothing to recover.


They are aware of this forum and know some members here and as youre local enough possibly know them!
They have seen these photos and will get to see the car. They have since given me their explanation to the images and response to the comments here.

Whilst I did have confidence at first that has now been completely destroyed by the current shambolick state of my car. I can now only judge them on careless attempt that is not even half way to a good job sitting on the drive. 
And I'am confident any independent assessor or painter would confirm that this work is far from a little sanding and polishing to make good!

Consider if this is fair!:
I now have a car that is in a worse condition than before devaluing it further. 
Will need additional work to rectify possible a complete rework. 
May now need other panels painting all at possible detriment to the condition and provenience. Will cost more to rectify elsewhere along with the loss of use from the initial work to whenever it's resolved. 
Along with the inconvenience and now reliance on others there's the stress worry and anxiety for me but even effecting others around me. 
As I said to this company when booking it in before work started, I have a ticket and club stand pass for Gti International this weekend and was looking forward to showing it off - Not much use without a car! I had even booked Fri off work to detail it which is now a day I'll have to spend sorting this out as 9-5 Iam at work.

Looking at the car and with the above it's not hard to see why there's a reluctance to simply give it back for another go.


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## eddie bullit

SteveTDCi said:


> I appreciate the work isn't 100% but suggesting citizens advice and trading standards won't help the situation, if it was me I would dig my heals in more. My feeling is they should be shown all of the areas where you are not happy, give them chance to rectify it on the understanding that if it isn't to your satisfaction no money will change hands.


Well that's where you're wrong. Suggesting professional advice does'nt mean you're going in all guns blazing. It means you have the facts and know your rights prior to speaking to the supplier.

Edd


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## Kerr

I'm sure English law is the same as Scottish in this situation and firstly you do need to give the person the opertunity to repair the work. 

Let's be fair it couldn't get any worse could it? 

How did you pay for it? 

If you used a credit card notify them straight away. 

I think even visa debit offers you protection too. 

Best of luck and try and remain calm but firm with the company. 

An angry slagging match solves nothing. 

Keep records of everything in case it does go further.


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## Adamk69

Shocking.


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## masammut

Whoever did that job deserves to be shot dead 10 times in a row! disgusting!


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## craigeh123

Good luck with it ! I know yellows a git , my bumpers are faded and 
I told my mate I wanted to paint them , I then noticed the tops of 
The doors where a shade out as was the roof . We painted the roof black 
And soon we are painting the whole exterior just to even it out as trying to paint odd panels is useless on yellow


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## dooka

Lets not turn this into a witch hunt guys. I know what has gone on here. I have had a rather lengthy convo with the painter when I was over their earlier. He is desperate to resolve this for you. He is waiting for his DW account to be activated before he can come on here and respond. I do know that he wants to sort this, and his work is spot on 99.9% of the time, we all have off days unfortunately.

I am in the process of writing a rather long winded response to this thread, and I am also happy to mediate between you both until their DW account is activated..

One thing I would like to say though is, don't lose faith with this painter, he will rectify and like I say, a very good painter, although this thread does show different. I send all my paint work to them, I have used who are meant to be some of the best painters, and they just produce poop..


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## SteveTDCi

C11PRA DC said:


> They are aware of this forum and know some members here and as youre local enough possibly know them!
> They have seen these photos and will get to see the car. They have since given me their explanation to the images and response to the comments here.
> 
> Whilst I did have confidence at first that has now been completely destroyed by the current shambolick state of my car. I can now only judge them on careless attempt that is not even half way to a good job sitting on the drive.
> And I'am confident any independent assessor or painter would confirm that this work is far from a little sanding and polishing to make good!
> 
> Consider if this is fair!:
> I now have a car that is in a worse condition than before devaluing it further.
> Will need additional work to rectify possible a complete rework.
> May now need other panels painting all at possible detriment to the condition and provenience. Will cost more to rectify elsewhere along with the loss of use from the initial work to whenever it's resolved.
> Along with the inconvenience and now reliance on others there's the stress worry and anxiety for me but even effecting others around me.
> As I said to this company when booking it in before work started, I have a ticket and club stand pass for Gti International this weekend and was looking forward to showing it off - Not much use without a car! I had even booked Fri off work to detail it which is now a day I'll have to spend sorting this out as 9-5 Iam at work.
> 
> Looking at the car and with the above it's not hard to see why there's a reluctance to simply give it back for another go.


I understand your frustration as i've had a crap paint job in the past, but things can be resolved, for me I would let them paint it again as you have nothing to loose, with regards to devaluing it further, most cars see paint before the end of the factory car park (seen it at Landrover) I have no idea who this is thats painted your car, i don't know where you live so can only guess its someone in my area since you mention it.

All the talk about Trading Standards doesn't help, customers are quick to use this and usually what happens is they don't give them all the facts and things get out of habd very quickly, everyone gets peed off and nothing gets resolved.

Dookas post makes the most sense, perhaps if you explained to the painter you were looking forward to GTi international and was on a club stand they would pull out all of the stops for you. At the end of the day you need to be happy with the out come and nobody on here should be the influencing factor, its your car and you need to have the final say


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## squiggs

I'm getting a good feeling about the outcome of this issue now

And lets face it nobody deliberately turns out a bad job.
If they turned out more than 'an average amount' of 'not so good jobs' their business would fail - and nobody goes into business to make it fail.

Painting is a skill, and similar to any personal skill that anybody has they usually do it to the best of their ability and take pride in their skills. 
Occasionally things go wrong - then the pride kicks in again to show off the skill by correcting the problems.


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## Guest

squiggs said:


> I'm getting a good feeling about the outcome of this issue now
> 
> And lets face it nobody deliberately turns out a bad job.
> If they turned out more than 'an average amount' of 'not so good jobs' their business would fail - and nobody goes into business to make it fail.
> 
> Painting is a skill, and similar to any personal skill that anybody has they usually do it to the best of their ability and take pride in their skills.
> Occasionally things go wrong - then the pride kicks in again to show off the skill by correcting the problems.


I'am taking everything into consideration very carefully at the mo as to what's best to do.

As the discussion has got longer go back to the start and have another look at the images!


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## squiggs

C11PRA DC said:


> I'am taking everything into consideration very carefully at the mo as to what's best to do.
> 
> As the discussion has got longer go back to the start and have another look at the images!


I know what you're saying buddy - and fully understand your apprehension.
Only by talking to the guy will you know if he has any personal pride and wants to uphold his professionalism - if by talking to him you feel he can turn it around then give him another chance.
Other than that - weigh up the other options.
If I'm correct (?) I think you have to give him another shot (get some sort of legal advice). Only then (and again only if I'm correct (?)) can you refuse to pay. And only then can you, at no expense to yourself, get it rectified, or at least get it put back to a similar state as it was before he touched it. But this is sure to be a long drawn out process.
Get some legal advice (did I mention that )
Or you simply have to bite the bullet and take it somewhere else.


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## rich1880

Probably the worst paint job I have seen, looks like everything that is expected of someone to carry out a spray job has been forgotten, basic fundementals of masking the car, preparing the panels etc. I would be furious to pick my car up to find such a poor paint job. Whilst I accept some people have off days, there is not really an excuse for such shoddy work. If you haven't paid I would go elsewhere and inform the garage along with the photos of why you are not prepared to pay. 

As for the reason why the paint job was so poor, it should be interesting to hear the reasoning from the painter, maybe he dipped his dogs tail in yellow plate and let it wag its tail over your car !!!


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## dooka

C11PRA you have PM ..

This will get sorted in a timely manner, you just need to trust the original painter to rectify. He will do. My dealings with them have always been very professional ..


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## dooka

SteveTDCi said:


> most cars see paint before the end of the factory car park (seen it at Landrover) I have no idea who this is thats painted your car,


Jesus, you aint wrong . The amount of brand Spanking Range Rovers I have detailed before the customer has picked up from the dealership, I think around 90% of them had had paint..

Many moons ago when the new Minis came out, I saw one be re-roofed, as it was damaged in transport, then stuck in the dealership as a brand new un-registered car, WTF!!, it is written off in my eyes, a new roof, even before being sold..


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## ikustoms

Evening all. 

Iv now had my account come alive. 

First things first. 

I'm not here to start or cause arguments. I wont be replying to anyone that wants to slag me off or start an argument. 

All I want is for the owner to be happy with our work. 

There is a few points left out the posts so far and I will cover it later. 

My back ground is on my website if you are interested so I won't cover it here. I'm only here to share my views on the problem. Originally this post was asking for advice, not to slag everything off. I feel it's all got out of hand on here and not really helping with the original question. 

Iv emailed the owner(sorry to talk in the third person but it appears to be way on here) twice and he poped in last nite without the car. 

The car left us on Friday not finished. The only reason it left is because the owner stripped it him self and wanted to rebuild it himself as has had problems with some bits not aligning properly. So instead of it sitting the workshop all weekend and nothing happening it gave the owner a chance to build it up and see what it needed to get it fitting perfect. 
I said that we still needed to polish a few bits and needed it back this week. 
The owner hasn't paid yet and I was happy with that as its not finished and trusted him. 

Sunday I got an email saying he wasn't happy with my work. 
Iv also did the invoice wrong and sent it. Iv admitted flat and happy to stand up and admit that. The owner came on here for advice, I respect that but I feel I should have been given the opportunity to finish my work and that we had enough respect for each other that my advice is trusted. I'm no bull****ter and don't make things up to cover myself. If iv made a mistake I'm man enough to say so. 

My first thoughts to any complaint is how can we make it rite! 

I'm not perfect and admitting that it's not good enough. I'm very proud of my reputation that iv built and really appreciate the support my customers give me. I'm here now telling you all that my hands are up admitting falt and that (and I hope the owner will back me up) I want to do anything it takes to make the car perfect again and have another happy customer. 

I really hope to be given a chance to finish my work and rectify any issues. 



An insight to how I painted it as its come up a lot so far. 
The colour was computer matched and was a good match to the original paint code. We don't have a mixing scheme so this gives us the opportunity to use a paint system tailored to each job. If one paint company has a better match we can use it. 
Iv use a colour matched primer. Yellow in this case. This hugely reduces that chance of poor coverage you can get with these colours. Even if you use white primer you can still have a problem. With this colour the computer didn't give a recommended colour primer

The paint used was 2pack straight colour. Iv used it because I know the yellow base cost has poor coverage and iv put a coat of 2pack clear on top. The original car has clear on, so does ours. 

I will post some pics of the masking later but I did all I could to stop overspray as I know the work that's gone into the underneath. Unfortunately paint sneaks through any slight gap. The overspray will all come off and would have been spotted during the cars final check. 

I hope that clears a few things and feel a lot of unfair and hurtful comments have been made on here. I'm a normal guy and am no different to you guys. 
I learn new things every day and see my competition as ways of learning to help me and push my business forward. I personally know most of the bodyshops in my area and arround the country and I'm affraid we all make mistakes. I'm still learning and will learn from this. 

Thank you to those that have said give me a chance, I appreciate that. Thanx to Dooka, we met a few months back and I now do all robs work and have recently worked on his own van. Robs a very skilled guy and really knows his job so I'm very proud to have worked on his own vehicle. 

There is a few other of my customers on this forum, a quick search will show other examples of my work and you will see how happy they are. 

I want to finish and rectify my work. I will do any extra work needed at no extra cost. What more can I do?

Iain.


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## ikustoms

Masking sheet taped to the rear wheels

















Wing masked. Note that it's fully masked around the wheel, even the side repeater hole is masked up









Wing to door edge is foam masked to stop over spray getting on the A post door shut.









Showing the finish


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## eddie bullit

Hope you get it sorted between you then eh.. Maybe just miscommunication then eh.
Good luck with it. I understand the importance of good customer service and reputation.
Hoping you can make the job 100% and both come out happy:thumb:
Edd


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## squiggs

Well you can't say fairer than that


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## Andyb0127

ikustoms said:


> Masking sheet taped to the rear wheels
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wing masked. Note that it's fully masked around the wheel, even the side repeater hole is masked up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wing to door edge is foam masked to stop over spray getting on the A post door shut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Showing the finish


I take your oven extracts at the front and has no floor extraction. dont take this the wrong way but the cars reversed in panels are at the front, so your spraying the front of the car, the overspray is being extracted towards the back of the car thus resulting in the overspary over the car, really the car should of been driven in would of been closer to the extraction, as for the masking realy you should of used masking paper first and taped it to the floor sealing the underneath off, then cut out masking sheet as needed, theres no water on the floor to keep dust down, i notice the oven filter looks like it needs changing, have the walls got tacky coating over them. As for the laquer over 2k solid i just dont get might aswell of done it in basecoat and priced it accordingly if you know yellows dont cover. every yellow we do at work is done with white primer and basecoat weve never had problems. just looks like a bit more time and care should of been taken from start to finish.
Fair enough you have admitted your mistakes and are willing to rectify it. but i will reserve judgement till i see it done properly, if the op is happy with it when you have rectified it then i will give credit where credits due.


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## jim55

i used to work as a painter for a large company and read this whole thread with interest ,it seems the guy has done most things (masking properly and stuff )yeah you cant help paint edges and things but from what iv seen they are in hidden places ,ok these arent ideal but in the bigger scheme of things they are unavoidable sometimes and most are not seen after building back up
the overspray is just something that cant b avoided as said it will find a way into gaps and spaces and 9 times out of ten its just a wipe with a thinners rag to remove ,again not ideal but easily fixed 
the paint runs however i would say are purely down to application obv and these areas require rectification (along with any dirt nibs that cant b polished and these bits repainted if required
the guy has came on here ,held his hands up and im sure he will rectify it as on the face of it he was getting slated ,i think detailers /guys with a keen interest in their cars look at things a bit closer (rightly so -im one of them:thumbthan "average "car users ,this is just a job thats went wrong and the guys gona fix it ,after reading this im sure he will b as conscious of turning this back out perfect.
when i worked in the motor trade (no backstreet place -a big operation -100
staff 6 ovens ,a proper set up in other words and a major player in the ins world 
i painted a mercedes estate and as far as i rem it was a new bonnet grille bumper repaired wings and blend onto doors ,this was repainted and rebuilt up and when the customer came in he seemed delighted (this was a proper job btw mouldings off and handles out ,everything ,the guy took it away and then restripped it to inspect !!he brought it back as when i masked the indicator (at the headlight )just as in post there was a paint edge that i trimmed of with a blade and he wasnt happy !also under the wing on this car there was a black rubber fitted on the inner edge of the wheel arch ,the car was masked up just like in the pics and when it was removed there was obv a lacquer build up against the tape and there was a rough edge under the refitted rubber when built up ,the guy took this off and complained about this ,there was a coupla wee things like this and these were all fixed and the car inspected by him in front of me to make sure all issues were adressed (btw this car was a nitemare for silicone and stuff so i think he used a coating of some sort)long story short the guy then moaned about things he accused us of doing (dirty boot carpet and stuff )windscreen chipped!and genthings that had nothing to do with us ,he ended up getting the cheif executive in to b told his car was fine and there was nothing more we could do,all im saying is that some people look at things diff and maybe jump to conclusions(im not saying this is the case here btw)


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## ikustoms

Andyb0127 said:


> I take your oven extracts at the front and has no floor extraction. dont take this the wrong way but the cars reversed in panels are at the front, so your spraying the front of the car, the overspray is being extracted towards the back of the car thus resulting in the overspary over the car, really the car should of been driven in would of been closer to the extraction, as for the masking realy you should of used masking paper first and taped it to the floor sealing the underneath off, then cut out masking sheet as needed, theres no water on the floor to keep dust down, i notice the oven filter looks like it needs changing, have the walls got tacky coating over them. As for the laquer over 2k solid i just dont get might aswell of done it in basecoat and priced it accordingly if you know yellows dont cover. every yellow we do at work is done with white primer and basecoat weve never had problems. just looks like a bit more time and care should of been taken from start to finish.
> Fair enough you have admitted your mistakes and are willing to rectify it. but i will reserve judgement till i see it done properly, if the op is happy with it when you have rectified it then i will give credit where credits due.


Yes it's end extraction. I agree that it should be the other way round.

The filters are 8 jobs old. They look blocked but I did a big black job recently. 
The walls have tacky coat on, they are due to be redone but that are still tacky. 
I don't wet the floor as it usually causes more problems than it saves. It only takes a slight flick of the airline and it splashes everywhere, usually in the bit you have just painted. 
Using masking paper is a personal preference. I use it when I need to but don't feel the job would be different had I used it.

Appreciate the comments.


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## ikustoms

I'm really happy to see some constructive comments now Thanx.


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## ikustoms

jim55 said:


> i used to work as a painter for a large company and read this whole thread with interest ,it seems the guy has done most things (masking properly and stuff )yeah you cant help paint edges and things but from what iv seen they are in hidden places ,ok these arent ideal but in the bigger scheme of things they are unavoidable sometimes and most are not seen after building back up
> the overspray is just something that cant b avoided as said it will find a way into gaps and spaces and 9 times out of ten its just a wipe with a thinners rag to remove ,again not ideal but easily fixed
> the paint runs however i would say are purely down to application obv and these areas require rectification (along with any dirt nibs that cant b polished and these bits repainted if required
> the guy has came on here ,held his hands up and im sure he will rectify it as on the face of it he was getting slated ,i think detailers /guys with a keen interest in their cars look at things a bit closer (rightly so -im one of them:thumbthan "average "car users ,this is just a job thats went wrong and the guys gona fix it ,after reading this im sure he will b as conscious of turning this back out perfect.
> when i worked in the motor trade (no backstreet place -a big operation -100
> staff 6 ovens ,a proper set up in other words and a major player in the ins world
> i painted a mercedes estate and as far as i rem it was a new bonnet grille bumper repaired wings and blend onto doors ,this was repainted and rebuilt up and when the customer came in he seemed delighted (this was a proper job btw mouldings off and handles out ,everything ,the guy took it away and then restripped it to inspect !!he brought it back as when i masked the indicator (at the headlight )just as in post there was a paint edge that i trimmed of with a blade and he wasnt happy !also under the wing on this car there was a black rubber fitted on the inner edge of the wheel arch ,the car was masked up just like in the pics and when it was removed there was obv a lacquer build up against the tape and there was a rough edge under the refitted rubber when built up ,the guy took this off and complained about this ,there was a coupla wee things like this and these were all fixed and the car inspected by him in front of me to make sure all issues were adressed (btw this car was a nitemare for silicone and stuff so i think he used a coating of some sort)long story short the guy then moaned about things he accused us of doing (dirty boot carpet and stuff )windscreen chipped!and genthings that had nothing to do with us ,he ended up getting the cheif executive in to b told his car was fine and there was nothing more we could do,all im saying is that some people look at things diff and maybe jump to conclusions(im not saying this is the case here btw)


Sounds like the usual rusty Merc problems. Was it a 99-2003 model? Iv done loads of warranty rusty Mercs like that.


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## squiggs

Andyb0127 said:


> Fair enough you have admitted your mistakes and are willing to rectify it. but i will reserve judgement till i see it done properly, if the op is happy with it when you have rectified it then i will give credit where credits due.


Well thats put a kiss of death on the job :lol: A bird will probably somehow fly in during spraying now


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## ikustoms

squiggs said:


> Well thats put a kiss of death on the job :lol: A bird will probably somehow fly in during spraying now


Haha. True... If I get the chance to finish/rectify the job.

We still have time to get it done for GTI international. I will work through the night if I need to!


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## Andyb0127

squiggs said:


> Well thats put a kiss of death on the job :lol: A bird will probably somehow fly in during spraying now


Lol, could be worse if he had wetted the floor, then Went to put another coat on, and tried to connect hose pipe to the spraygun instead of airline :lol:


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## johnboydigs

ikustoms said:


> Haha. True... If I get the chance to finish/rectify the job.
> 
> We still have time to get it done for GTI international. I will work through the night if I need to!


To be fair to the guy he has held his hands up and admitted fault and he is even offering to work through the night and not many people would do that. He obviously values his customers and any future customers that he would get with a statement like the one above.


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## Buck

Iain


Good man fr coming on here - I'm looking forward to seeing this sorted, happy customer and reputation restored.


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## Guest

Hi all,

I appreciate that you have finally come on here to make an admission of sorts and put your side forward and I can also understand that you now desperate to put things right - what business wouldn't want to limit the damage to their reputation but I think you may have this confused with customer service.
Quite frankly its a disgrace and embarrassment to yourself that it happened in the first place!

From my point of view I feel your not entirely accurate and truthful in what you have said, so from that point I'll make a thorough and honest statement here as to the events that transpired, explain and why I feel the way I do and help others opinions.

I presume most customers would drop their cars of dirty and unstripped leaving that work for you. Even though the quote you gave never accounted for this I took it upon myself to do this as a)I Know how to do it b) I could take my time c) I thought it would save you some time, make the job easier create the impression of an owner that cares and would appreciate a the effort of a careful and professional job d) I hoped it would achieve better results. 

Supplied to you was a replacement front bumper to be painted (this being the original from with the one on the car to be given back) stripped of the lower black valance/plate (to avoid you having to spray up to it) all clips and screws. The lower grilles wear removed and supplied separately with the 2 foglamp surrounds replaced with x2 New genuine SEAT in primer (as on of the originals was cracked). The front upper rad grille was supplied with the centre black louvered section removed again to make things easier (agreed repair explained/discussed). I then took great care and spent quite some time thoroughly degreasing/cleaning all of these items prior to hand over. After discussion with you and again to get the best possible result I purchased a NEW genuine bonnet from TPS which I actually had to order three off and collect it from Coventry to get an undamaged one (You inspected this later and It we agreed it required some finishing by yourself to remove a defect). All clips, hoses and trim was remove from the old bonnet for you to remove and give back to me. I also removed the foglight units and disconnected any wiring. With all these parts you agreed that any previous imperfections from chips etc could/would be removed.

I also asked you if you wanted the front arch liners removing due to overspray and you said it wouldn't be necessary but I did this prior to hand over - removing all screws and clips from the wing/body and thoroughly cleaning/degreasing all surfaces. I also suggested fitting my winter wheels due to the chance of overspray and you again said this wasn't necessary so I trusted you on that. 

When dropping the car and all the separate bits off on Wed evening as agreed I offered to remove the bumper for you and had brought my tools but you said you'd do that and I explained where the fixings were. Also as you had never removed the mirror covers before and we were worried about the retaining clips breaking I removed them to save you being responsible if they did (breaking several clips in the process). I aslo removed the indicators and was quite happy to then help as I had done before push and move various customer vehicles into your workshop.
I reminded you that I hadn't yet given you the paint code you asked for and we looked in the boot where you took a pick of the sticker with this on. You explained that you can order the paint to be with you on Thurs so it wouldn't cause a delay. (You've only ever mentioned ordering paint on code till now?) 

The alignment issues, discussed by us both at quote centred around a slightly pushed in front panel causing some bumper position issues. I said I would replace later after your work due to timescales and you agreed it wouldn't effect the work you needed to do. I understand we agreed that I would refit the bumper and all parts after painting due to the possibility of me obtaining a new front panel (something that never transpired) before GTi International and your suggestion that there would be no point in doing this process twice due to this new panel.

I left the car with you on the understanding it should be ready Friday.

I get an email from you Friday at 4:30 saying "It's all painted. Had a play with the bumper but it's not sitting quite perfect. I'm only here till 5.30 tho" I replied saying that I would struggle to make 5:30 can we do a time at the weekend which in response you said "I can't really do the weekend".

I arrived at 5:30 Fri with unfortunately not all of the £500-550 you quoted (never did ask for a written quote as I trusted you) apologised and explained that I could get it for you Sat or Mon. You said due to you collecting parts "Tues would be better". I said I would totally understand if you kept the car till then but you said you trusted me to take it PLUS it would help you as the workshop was full (x7) and I wouldn't loose 2 days that I could use putting it back together - an indication to me that it was finished as why else would I spend time putting it back together if you had further work to do that required stripping it again. NO mention of it being wholly unfinished!

I asked how the job went and said OK but there's a couple of bits I've noticed that I'll need it back for. I asked what and we moved over to the car with Indicators fitted where you ONLY showed me a chip/drip on the bonnet corner and an adjacent rough area that you said needs more polishing. This seemed acceptable to me as previously when I visited and at that time the was a customer t5 in for remedial work. Also you explained you had a go but failed at aligning/mounting the bumper but as I'd always understood I'd do this I thought no problem. 

I asked at that time for confirmation of the total amount and you shrugged your shoulders and said you had no idea? which left me feeling a little suspicious (started to wish I had a written quote).

Due to your obvious time constraints I never went over the car in detail then. I drove the car home to collect the bumper shortly after in another bigger car. Whilst at home when the car was standing in the sun I immediately started to notice some of the obvious defects listed on here one being a run in the topcoat on the wing. On returning to you to collect the bumper I raised the issue of the quite obvious run in top coat and you were quite surprised and said you hadn't seen it and you'll sort it and anything else I find when I come back on Tues. This is the point I would have expected you to say ITS NOT ANYWHERE NEAR FINISHED but you didn't. Alarmed by the fact you weren't aware of the defect I just brought to you attention and from the short time I'd had the car I'd already noticed a few others the best course was to have a look at it closely at home to see if i could "find any others" as you suggested.

Well that night and Saturday morning was spent closely looking at the car and making a depressing list/taking photo's, Try and imagine how gutting it was to see these results when I did everything I thought I could to obtain the best. It was all starting to add up into something that looked a lot worse than honest mistakes! In despair, looking for answers and starting to feel like I may have been had I started the thread on here to get some opinions on the best course of action. Previous experience has shown me it can be extremely difficult to criticise poor services without a bit of research especially as a)You haven't got a written quote b)the list of defects/issues is overwhelmingly huge. 

This is when I pushed for an invoice to see just what came back:

Break down of the price
Bonnet £250
Blend wings £140x2
bumper, bumper grill and fog covers £150
Front grill with repair £90
Mirror caps £80
total £850

Considering what I had found I replied and told you how unhappy I was and expressed my alarm at this revised quote- I nearly died at this point!. The invoice then came back down to £500 as you'd apparently "sent the wrong invoice". You requested that we meet to discuss which I did but I didn't really want drive the car again without a bumper.
At that meeting as well as telling you further about the many faults (I will create a document of these and supply them) I expressed my contention of payment for any work that is of such very low standard and that I will require a written invoice for the work. From this point ONLY when you've been saying it was never finished and further work needed to be done.

Surmising unfortunately it very much looks like the work was never done correctly at all and would never have been right without extensive reworking not "sanding and polishing a few bits" and it would be hard to convince otherwise.

In any outcome admitting that and giving an apology would be correct but a simple oops we all make mistakes - I'll have another go at no extra cost simply doesn't cut it for me at this level! 

Again whilst I understand your desperate to put things right - what business wouldn't want to limit the damage to their reputation - but I think you may have this confused with customer service.

Sadly the objective of achieving a happy, satisfied customer maybe went out the window when you screwed up so convincingly badly in the first place.

Try HONESTLY to think what you would do and feel if it was you and your car.

DC


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## SteveTDCi

I don't see how this actually gets the issues sorted, reading this as an outsider you went to collect a car without having the money to pay for it, you didn't have a written quote and you took the car to trial fit the parts before it was finished.

Whilst I agree the overspray on the mud flaps would annoy me it will come off, the other bits, some look like they look need tidying up whether they would have been done we will never know. However this isn't getting the car fixed, if you don't want to leave it with the same garage then you need to come to some arrangement, but I would say that any kind of legal advice would tell you that you would need to give the company another chance to rectify the problems. You must have had confidence in them to have left the car there in the first place, to me £500 sounds quite chep for the work carried out. 

I hope you get it sorted, mistakes do happen its how they are resolved that matters.


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## toddy23

fair play to the guy for coming on here,fair enough the overspray should have been wiped off,if the cars in the booth back to front,have you ever painted red or orange the operspray is every where,a lot of the runs etc are most probs covered when the bumbers go on,also the car in the booth masked up ready for paint is a pro job so seeing this i would let him re-do it,,,,,he knows what he has to do now with every one reading this so no pressure


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## Guest

SteveTDCi said:


> I don't see how this actually gets the issues sorted, reading this as an outsider you went to collect a car without having the money to pay for it, you didn't have a written quote and you took the car to trial fit the parts before it was finished.
> 
> Whilst I agree the overspray on the mud flaps would annoy me it will come off, the other bits, some look like they look need tidying up whether they would have been done we will never know. However this isn't getting the car fixed, if you don't want to leave it with the same garage then you need to come to some arrangement, but I would say that any kind of legal advice would tell you that you would need to give the company another chance to rectify the problems. You must have had confidence in them to have left the car there in the first place, to me £500 sounds quite chep for the work carried out.
> 
> I hope you get it sorted, mistakes do happen its how they are resolved that matters.


Read my last post again! I was given NO indication that car was finished. I never requested a trial fit of parts. And I was notified to late in the day to get full cash payment from the bank and owned up to that.

I asked for a quote for the work and was given a price - ! I didn't ask for a "cheap" job. Therefore the price doesn't excuse this.

Yes I was happy to take it there but a on the evidence before me I am not convinced I can take it back.

I'd have to get the work assessed before and after to be convinced.


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## toddy23

just out of interest what was the 2k straight gloss system you have used.


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## ikustoms

toddy23 said:


> just out of interest what was the 2k straight gloss system you have used.


Lesonal 420. It had the best computer match.

I feel I'm in a no win situation. This isn't the place to sort it. Iv offered all I can and I perhaps I didn't explain my self in enough detail to you but I hadn't finished.

Going backwards and forwards over every detail isn't going to get the car sorted.


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## ikustoms

The clear was sikkens HS LV. The lesonal 420 is made by sikkens and totally compliant together. The LV clear is a really nice product and goes really hard so is very resistant to chips.


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## Kerr

A keyboard fight is going to end in tears. 

Keep it civil between yourselves and work out what is best. 

Once the matter is resolved one way another post here and put the matter to bed. 

I'm sure both parties know what they have to do to put it right.


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## mitchelld

fair play to the guy for coming on and trying to explain, the masking etc in my opinion just says to me that it may have been rushed through, weve all done it, try get it finished and out the door, sometimes it works sometimes i doesnt, least the fellas offered to sort it out. and i would never let anything out my garage without being paid for and i only do homers lol!!!!


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## SteveTDCi

C11PRA DC said:


> Yes I was happy to take it there but a on the evidence before me I am not convinced I can take it back.
> 
> I'd have to get the work assessed before and after to be convinced.


Well until you decide what you want i don't see how its going to be resolved, either you give them another chance or come to some agreement. The ball really is in your court. Why don't you just go to the bodyshop and sort it out rather than drag it out on here :thumb:


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## dooka

C11PRA DC said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I asked how the job went and said OK *but there's a couple of bits I've noticed that I'll need it back for*. I asked what and we moved over to the car with Indicators fitted where you ONLY showed me a chip/drip on the bonnet corner and an adjacent rough area that you said needs more polishing. This seemed acceptable to me as previously when I visited and at that time the was a customer t5 in for remedial work. Also you explained you had a go but failed at aligning/mounting the bumper but as I'd always understood I'd do this I thought no problem.


You state here that he said it would need to come back..

Yes I understand that you are unhappy with the job, I wouldn't be to happy either admittedly with a few bits, but he has come on here and held his hands up, and offered to put things right. That deserves some respect. Look at the swissvax thread, to over 50 pages before they could be bothered to respond, and didn't really care, Iain does care. Yes we all miss things time to time, after spending 15 hours looking at paint, you can often miss a few bits, but they would be rectified when it goes back for final finish and inspection

None of us will really know what has actually happened, I don't know you, but do know Iain, so can only judge my opinions of what I know of Iain, and I would say he is a very decent, honest and straight chap. Has always been very professional with me, and produced outstanding work. I have used all the main big names in my area, they also have off days, but always give the chance to put right, never had the need to take it further.

There is no real point coming on here and airing your grievances. You are best off allowing IKustoms to rectify the work, then if still not happy [which I have a feeling you won't be], then take it further, but use the right channels. This is the internet, and anyone who understands the net, will know that it is one of the worst places to air our views, to many plonkers/trolls on the net.

I do try to stay out of these kind of debates, but as I know the standard, quality of his work and the pride he puts into it 99.9% of the time, I feel the guy needs someone to back him.

Everyone on here understands your point and agrees why you are not happy. No one is disputing that. Just let IKustoms do what they need to do to rectify. I think them trying to resolve for you, is good customer service.

I think, and this is my personal opinion, is that you are unhappy, and feel that it is right that you ruin a well earned reputation, that is a little unfair I think. No one on here is ganging up on you, I think they all have a more open minded approach to it, but again, we are not in your shoes..

I am sure once it is all rectified and you are happy with the car, your opinion will change as you calm down, yes I would be raging to to an extent, but I also know what goes into painting, and how a car can look before being finished. I have seen a good few shocked faces over the years, wehen customers came in mid job.

We often get judged on how we deal with a problem, rather than the problem itself. There is a painter in Northampton [who I am not going to name] who everyone raves about, the best thing since sliced bread, a scene queen and all that, but his work is some of the worst I have ever seen, makes yours look good ..

Like I said in my PM to you, don't worry yourself to much, as this will be resolved [if you give it the chance to be] and there are people on here who are willing to help you resolve it, me being one of them..

I do hope we can all see a happy outcome on this. I don't really want to post in this thread again, unless I have too..

Spread the love guys ..


----------



## stevief

Can't help but think this was all really unnecessary.

I'm sure the kustoms guy would have tried everything to resolve the situation regardless of whether or not this thread was here. Personally I think if he does rectify it, restore it to the way it should have been in the first place, then there is no problem.

The way a company deals with a complaint, in my opinion, says more about the company than if they done the job right in the first place. People make mistakes, it's how they deal with them that shows the professionalism of that company.

Any legal persuits you take up will result in the same scenario as he is offering - take it back to him, give him a chance to sort the problems.


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## squiggs

SteveTDCi said:


> All the talk about Trading Standards doesn't help, customers are quick to use this and usually what happens is they don't give them all the facts and things get out of habd very quickly, everyone gets peed off and nothing gets resolved.


The only reason why I suggested some sort of legal advice is that it's got to be better than asking us (the man on the street) for views and opinions - and when you look back at the replies there wasn't really any real advice, (other than talk to the guy that did it).

Really from the start the OP only had two options ... take it back, or, don't take it back. Anything other than that would have needed legal advice rather than some sort of vigilante stance

As we now know the painter has stated that he's more than happy to put things right (and hats off to him by publicly announcing that! Especially on a forum where everybody has a bit of OCD about paint).
So hopefully discussions are being held behind closed doors and the matter will be resolved - to the satisfaction of both parties :thumb:


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## eddie bullit

All nicely put..but at the end of the day the OP has a car with a ****e paint job. He's gone out of his way to make it easy for the garage and basically he's been let down. I'd be upset with the thought of going through this rigmarole again. I hope it gets sorted.
Do what you think is best for you OP.:thumb:
Good luck n hope you get sorted soon
Edd


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## Kerr

Although the spray painter has come on here and accepted it was his fault, it was his duty to make sure it never left his place like that in the first instance.

I'm sure everyone would defend their company and reputation if they were being questioned on the internet.

The spray painter has offered to correct the job. This is not an amazing offer as some people seem to suggest. It is his duty to put it right and it really should have been correct first time around.

Yes mistakes do happen but that job is so bad even the first week apprentice should have had the sense not to allow the car to leave in that condition.

Legally the OP has to give the company the chance to rectify their poor workmanship.

I'm sure under the scrutiny of the internet that the company will now make sure this job is as good as they can achieve. 

There is no point of getting into a massive internet argument over the situation especially between the OP and the company as the issues are clear cut as is the method of sorting the issues.


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## squiggs

Kerr said:


> it was his duty to make sure it never left his place like that in the first instance.


I think you've hit the nail on the head there!

I'm sure every painter has had problems with runs, reactions, dirt, etc, etc ..... it's just that the customer usually doesn't see it in the 'raw' state before it's corrected.


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## Guest

squiggs said:


> I think you've hit the nail on the head there!
> 
> I'm sure every painter has had problems with runs, reactions, dirt, etc, etc ..... it's just that the customer usually doesn't see it in the 'raw' state before it's corrected.


It was finished to me as why else would Iain and I arrange and allow payment/collection. Its ridiculous that I'd take EVERY part away ( in 2 trips) for a weekend to trial fit an unfinished bumper that I already knew would never fit well to an unfinished car only to have to bring it all back 4 days later. If I didn't know it takes 5 mins to find out and I would have left everything with Iain. We always knew it wouldn't fit and Iain suggested some spacers to fit till I got a replacement front panel theres little else you can do to adjust these bumpers.

You haven't seen the paint up close and whilst I don't pretend to be expert had it gone back for and been through the alleged "finishing" process it def would't have hidden some of these faults and I would have rejected it then.

Iain has owned up to making mistakes which is correct and I have to applaud that. But I have to say simply offering to complete the work again is not a great offer for the customer as there have now been consequences and this doesn't consider them or really offer any real assurances or guarantees on rectification. I've got to be convinced to want to take it back not be forced to - that won't ever make me happy and just exasperates ill feeling.

I have contacted Iain to arrange to come and see the car (on a dry day) and go through each of the faults and note why its happened and how he intends to rectify it.

I will then have the work inspected independently to confirm the faults and the correct approach to rectifying it.

Based on the assessment of that inspection I will then speak to Iain again regards what we do next.


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## cleancar

I know your dissapointed , but I would give the painter a second chance I'm sure he won't let you have it back until it's 100%

Everyone has off days , I'm sure after this thread the job will be done A1 for you.


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## rich1880

I guess its over to you OP, its prob not the best place to get this resolved. My own view is that there is no excuse for the poor paint, yes the garage has held there hands up but its still a poor job. I'd personally leave it at that and go elsewhere. But its down to you to make your choice.


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## Guest

rich1880 said:


> I guess its over to you OP, its prob not the best place to get this resolved. My own view is that there is no excuse for the poor paint, yes the garage has held there hands up but its still a poor job. I'd personally leave it at that and go elsewhere. But its down to you to make your choice.


I've contacted Iain by email to come and see the car (its not driveable).

I need to show what I have found for his reference and to establish what would/wouldn't be rectified and what I can expect after.
Unfortunately thats the situation we are in now if we want to move forward and if we don't do this and somethings missed or not explained we are back to square one again but worse.
Its a consequence of giving the car to me in its current state regardless of who's right in the finished/unfinished dispute.

Unfortunately I've lost a lot of trust now and the informal independent inspection I mentioned in last post is a way of restoring that and would possibly back up any finishing statements enabling me to proceed with confidence.

This is how I want to proceed.

Its very unfortunate that this thread has snowballed further than anticipated. The internet is a fantastic sales, propaganda and PR opportunity embraced by all to drive business. But also its hugely critical - thats the trade off. I've been carful not to name anyone here until they chose to themselves.


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## paulmc08

I do agree everyone can have off day's,but to see and read about the amount of fault's/defects on the car,

that's a bit more than having an off day


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## Matt197

I have read this from the start including the replies from the company in question and to me anyway, it just appears the company is telling you what you want hear. My question is... does everything you paint end up in this "raw" state before it’s "finished"?

If so, then this is very sloppy and must cut into the company’s profits having to go back and correct corners that have been cut.

A few little bits are bound to creep in I'm sure, however the amount of defects is unacceptable and I don't buy the rubbish about it not being finished. I don't think any amount of sanding is going fix some of them defects but what do I know.

Unfortunately as I found out you are never going to be happy and will look for problems.

However with that said, I would give them the benefit of the doubt and see if they can improve upon this (can it really get any worse?). If they can’t then take it from there.

You have my support anyway.


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## toddy23

to fix this problem now every panel that has been sprayed will need rubbed back down and re-painted,this also means stripping all the exterior trim off the doors to blend so the colour matches,the guy who is doing the job knows this job has to be perfect other wise he is going to get even more stick on here,when im spraying anything i always say if i wouldnt except a job i have done then i wouldnt expect a customer to except


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## squiggs

C11PRA DC said:


> It was finished to me as why else would Iain and I arrange and allow payment/collection. Its ridiculous that I'd take EVERY part away ( in 2 trips) for a weekend to trial fit an unfinished bumper that I already knew would never fit well to an unfinished car only to have to bring it all back 4 days later. If I didn't know it takes 5 mins to find out and I would have left everything with Iain. We always knew it wouldn't fit and Iain suggested some spacers to fit till I got a replacement front panel theres little else you can do to adjust these bumpers.


Sorry I must have read something wrong - I thought you said you were told on collection that it would have to go back to get a few things tidied up.

I can't quite work out how you didn't notice any of the problems on collection. If it were mine I would at least have had a quick look before I took it away and feel sure that at least half the problems should have been noticed. 
If that had happened you would have had a chance to talk to the painter about the issues and how to get them resolved there and then rather than putting it on the internet and getting independent inspectors involved.


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## Ninja59

In open honesty i have read this whole thread with great interest without going into legal bits and bobs pretty much if you read every contract to the letter you would find someone with a defect and a moan (Complete Performance- basically just about every job would be none payment contract law operates harshly) and in fairness there is some for "minor breaches" (Substantial performance, voluntary acceptance of partial performance etc.) which allow for payment and the job to be seen as complete.

With all fairness i really think you should give/have given the guy a second chance i agree with dooka's points quite a lot in this thread it takes a quite some guts to admit that there are faults which need rectifying. 

If you are not going to give the guy a second chance then i think tbh it is far more difficult to move from your position to rectification. I always give most places a second chance now but after that then i can begin to get more concerned.

In regards to amounts and quotes or estimates in any line of work an estimate is always better than a quote a quote ties your hands legally speaking...

let me put it another way my dealership forgot to do a relatively simple task that i had tagged on to the service they forgot to do it and in fairness i got a bit like huff but they did it no problems and said sorry.Everyone makes mistakes through human error we are not robots.

you have not lost anything financially the only person really directly at loss is the painter as far i can see at the moment (time and materials).


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## eddie bullit

Squiggs..I think you're trying to pick holes in the ops story of events which I feel is unfair. He's come on here for advice not interrogation. You can't possibly blame him for being fed up. 
I'm all for solidarity between trades but come on..you can't stick up for the way that car was presented.
He's actually at a loss at the moment because the paint that's on will need removing which equals labour. These were brand new items requiring minimal prep work.
It's a shame it wasn't right first time and then we would oohing and ahhing over his pride n joy prior to the show  not squabbling


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## squiggs

With a paint job like that I fully understand that the op could be fed up and may have lost confidence ... I too would be doubtful as how to take things forward if I was in the situation he found himself in.
I'm just a bit confused on how the situation went from not bothering to look at the work on collection to needing to get a independent assessment done - the extremes are poles apart ... but it in no-way detracts from the issue that it is a paint job of appalling quality.
I can't in anyway support the painter - but sincerely hope he manages to sort things out to the (reasonable) satisfaction of the op.

Good luck to the op :thumb: and I hope he keeps us updated :thumb:


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## eddie bullit

Well said "MR" Squiggs  lets hope.


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## SteveTDCi

Well its gti international this weekend so I hope it all gets sorted for then. In my experience of an independent assessor I'm not sure what the can add, there are some runs, that back quarter and some bits missed when painting it's not like panels have been put on poorly, all you will get is that they will agree with your concerns about the paintwork and it won't move it any further forward. I just hope the meeting with the painter visits :thumb:


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## Andyb0127

Think the op and the painter need to meet, to resolve all the issues about everything. Yes the painter messed up but he's admitted that. But then the op took the car with looking at it thoroughly, so theres blame on both sides. 

The painters said he will put this right can't be fairer than that, give him the chance to put this right. Everyone deserves a second chance. Because this topic just seems to be going round in circles. 
You've had the opinions of members you have to agree most have said give him a second chance to put this right. Your going to get so many different answers that will confuse the situation even more. No you may not want to let him near the car again, but would you trust another bodyshop. We all make mistakes. Now to me you made a mistake of taking the car, when ikustoms had clearly told you there was some bits that needed sorted out, not that I'm taking sides but you both need to sit down on neutral ground sort it out what your going to do.


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## phazer

Andyb0127 said:


> Now to me you made a mistake of taking the car, when ikustoms had clearly told you there was some bits that needed sorted out, not that I'm taking sides but you both need to sit down on neutral ground sort it out what your going to do.


Very interesting thread.

It's the last bit I don't understand though, after the car has been painted what can be done to rectify having painted over dirt or not prepped such that paint is flaking off? I appreciate some of this is in places where you won't see it but it's indicative of the care in the prep and ultimately is a paint finish that will fail.

Given what's happened I can understand why the OP is hesitant in giving a second change (though legally that has to happend before compensation etc), it takes large kahunas to allow someone to have another go and potentially leave you with more damage or as others have said, paint other parts of the car to blend in the non shade matched paint.

Hope it gets resolved amicably and to the OPs satisfaction.


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## cleancar

The OP has nothing to lose giving him a second chance , he hasn't paid for anything yet anyway


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## Ninja59

eddie bullit said:


> Squiggs..I think you're trying to pick holes in the ops story of events which I feel is unfair. He's come on here for advice not interrogation. You can't possibly blame him for being fed up.
> I'm all for solidarity between trades but come on..you can't stick up for the way that car was presented.
> He's actually at a loss at the moment because the paint that's on will need removing which equals labour. These were brand new items requiring minimal prep work.
> It's a shame it wasn't right first time and then we would oohing and ahhing over his pride n joy prior to the show  not squabbling


Not really trying to pick holes it is more of a stand off...the OP does not want to use him (i can see his point) but at the same time the guy has come on admitted their are faults which now need rectifying and is willing...you really have to give people a reasonable chance to a) own up to the issue b) resolve it...

i mean you would not give a dealership one try to sort something, two times three times then take proper action and say i am taking it somewhere else at your cost.(purely hypothetical - oh wait no i have done that, 5 times i gave one dealership- i was feeling overly generous then i lost it straight to the manager next free service and MOT and refunded the costs involved).

As for the car presented a) the OP should of inspected it with reasonable care b) maybe the trader should of seen the defects more errors on both sides

as for the thing with the prep fair deal, if the OP takes it to the painter who did it originally there is no additional cost he is rectifying his own work he pays again he is not asking for more cash (even though he could not anyway)...

if the OP carries on like this then fair deal but i tell you now not giving him an opportunity is just down right dumb. If you had come on and said it was the second or third time they had had ago then my advice would completely different a long the lines of getting two quotes of reasonably same value presenting them and going from there.

my experience: -

i had one bodyshop with my car the manager said and i quote "We do 250 cars a month doublesho) and we do not always get it right first time." erm okay no...as i said to him i do not care about the other 249 and i would prefer it right first time where possible." In addition the quote they promised never arrived so that was a sinking ship (i refuse to mention the name for legal reasons.)

i agree people on here want it right first time and yes many people do it infuriates me to and the bodyshop i eventually used got it smack on first time round.some of it is down to luck more than anything,

DW sometimes twists things a lot as people expect it right first time and give no slack to people to try and correct things, things happen get over it. Heck even a certain wheel refurber near Kelly apparently "the best" has had a few threads with upset people on here.

the only bit the OP has legally done right at the moment in simple things is not paying him anything (deposit etc. i never get why people would do this) although you can get restitutionary damages for complete failure of consideration and wrongful prevention...

If necessary, i do not know whether dooka would be willing to meet as a more impartial third party to help a resolution come to fruition...(oh and i have seen dooka's van and i swear i have seen the painters work on his van on FB looked good - so clearly there is the potential for good work from the painter.)


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## Ninja59

phazer said:


> Very interesting thread.
> 
> It's the last bit I don't understand though, after the car has been painted what can be done to rectify having painted over dirt or not prepped such that paint is flaking off? I appreciate some of this is in places where you won't see it but it's indicative of the care in the prep and ultimately is a paint finish that will fail.
> 
> Given what's happened I can understand why the OP is hesitant in giving a second change (though legally that has to happend before compensation etc), it takes large kahunas to allow someone to have another go and potentially leave you with more damage or as others have said, paint other parts of the car to blend in the non shade matched paint.
> 
> Hope it gets resolved amicably and to the OPs satisfaction.


I am no painter but no doubt it can be rubbed back dirt removed etc.

It does but you cannot loose all faith in someone because it failed once otherwise you would end a mad situation. As for compensation there would only be rectifying the problem elsewhere (at the painters cost).


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## dooka

Ninja59 said:


> If necessary, i do not know whether dooka would be willing to meet as a more impartial third party to help a resolution come to fruition...(oh and i have seen dooka's van and i swear i have seen the painters work on his van on FB looked good - so clearly there is the potential for good work from the painter.)


I would be more than happy to be an impartial 3rd party with this. I want to see it resolved with a happy ending on both parts.

And anyone can view my van to see what the quality is like, in fact, if you view my van, you will see paint from some of the local big names, i know most as I come from the same trade, although just a detailer now. And you can judge each for their own merits of work, I will happily point out the different bits, then allow you to see if you can tell me who painted each bit, as each bit is slightly different..


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## Andyb0127

phazer said:


> Very interesting thread.
> 
> It's the last bit I don't understand though, after the car has been painted what can be done to rectify having painted over dirt or not prepped such that paint is flaking off? I appreciate some of this is in places where you won't see it but it's indicative of the care in the prep and ultimately is a paint finish that will fail.
> 
> Given what's happened I can understand why the OP is hesitant in giving a second change (though legally that has to happend before compensation etc), it takes large kahunas to allow someone to have another go and potentially leave you with more damage or as others have said, paint other parts of the car to blend in the non shade matched paint.
> 
> Hope it gets resolved amicably and to the OPs satisfaction.


What's not to understand.
He either mans up and gets his car rectified by the guy that did the work in the first place.
Or he takes it's some where else. But do you seriously think another bodyshop will want to rectify it, even I they did the cost to put it right would not be cheap.

Now the op took this car for the week end to do some work on it, and from what I can gather took it back on the Monday. He was told that some bits needed doing again. So whilst he had the car he saw or found all the defects. Now if he had not seen the car and the bodyshop had put the defects right without him knowing would we be in this situation, probably not.

If the op had done some work for some one and messed up, would he offer to put it right, and asked to be given a second chance to prove he is a proffesional at his job. Sure the op has made mistakes in the past.


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## phazer

Ninja59 said:


> I am no painter but no doubt it can be rubbed back dirt removed etc.


Exactly my point. Sanding back and doing a re-paint is not 'finishing off'. in mine and most peoples minds I would imagine, finishing off is de-nibbing, flatting and mopping not doing the job again.


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## phazer

Andyb0127 said:


> What's not to understand.
> He either mans up and gets his car rectified by the guy that did the work in the first place.
> Or he takes it's some where else. But do you seriously think another bodyshop will want to rectify it, even I they did the cost to put it right would not be cheap.
> 
> Now the op took this car for the week end to do some work on it, and from what I can gather took it back on the Monday. He was told that some bits needed doing again. So whilst he had the car he saw or found all the defects. Now if he had not seen the car and the bodyshop had put the defects right without him knowing would we be in this situation, probably not.
> 
> If the op had done some work for some one and messed up, would he offer to put it right, and asked to be given a second chance to prove he is a proffesional at his job. Sure the op has made mistakes in the past.


The lack of understanding relates to the painter suggesting it needed some finshing off. How is dirt removal from under paint final finishing, as it's not is it?

The rest as you say is entirely up to him and pretty much covered by consumer law. As he's not paid anything yet he can walk away. Not sure why people are jumping up and down about the second chance thing, he's under no obligation (he's not paid anything) to allow this guy to help resurrect his business after a frankly awful job unless of course he wants to persue financial recompense in which case he has to allow rectification by law.

I've had first hand experience of a seriously bad paint job a long time ago and walked away with my money back having no faith in the guys ability.

I'm not condoning slating a business with no reason far from it, I'd recommend the body shop I've used for the last 14 years to anyone who'll listen but it amazes me how people will relentlessly defend a business that has clearly failed. If it is your bread and butter there simply is no excuse for such a shoddy job.


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## craigeh123

id say - give him another shot , ask him to maybe paint the whole car so theres no colour match issues ? 

a mate of mines a painter and ive seen him **** up , but hes always done ace work for me 
we all have off days


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## eddie bullit

phazer said:


> The lack of understanding relates to the painter suggesting it needed some finshing off. How is dirt removal from under paint final finishing, as it's not is it?
> 
> The rest as you say is entirely up to him and pretty much covered by consumer law. As he's not paid anything yet he can walk away. Not sure why people are jumping up and down about the second chance thing, he's under no obligation (he's not paid anything) to allow this guy to help resurrect his business after a frankly awful job unless of course he wants to persue financial recompense in which case he has to allow rectification by law.
> 
> I've had first hand experience of a seriously bad paint job a long time ago and walked away with my money back having no faith in the guys ability.
> 
> I'm not condoning slating a business with no reason far from it, I'd recommend the body shop I've used for the last 14 years to anyone who'll listen but it amazes me how people will relentlessly defend a business that has clearly failed. If it is your bread and butter there simply is no excuse for such a shoddy job.


Well said! 
If you've lost faith in their ability to perform or do what was expected you are under no obligation to take it back to them. You've lost faith in their ability. It's up to them to prove otherwise not for the OP to.


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## PootleFlump

Not paying and not offering the guy a chance to correct the problems could leave him open to legal action if bodyshop could be bothered. Sometimes you can't please a customer and it best to let them go.


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## Andyb0127

phazer said:


> The lack of understanding relates to the painter suggesting it needed some finshing off. How is dirt removal from under paint final finishing, as it's not is it?
> 
> The rest as you say is entirely up to him and pretty much covered by consumer law. As he's not paid anything yet he can walk away. Not sure why people are jumping up and down about the second chance thing, he's under no obligation (he's not paid anything) to allow this guy to help resurrect his business after a frankly awful job unless of course he wants to persue financial recompense in which case he has to allow rectification by law.
> 
> I've had first hand experience of a seriously bad paint job a long time ago and walked away with my money back having no faith in the guys ability.
> 
> I'm not condoning slating a business with no reason far from it, I'd recommend the body shop I've used for the last 14 years to anyone who'll listen but it amazes me how people will relentlessly defend a business that has clearly failed. If it is your bread and butter there simply is no excuse for such a shoddy job.


Depends how you term finishing off, could mean what ever it take to finish the job.
So you've had a bad experience with a bodyshop, and seen this thread and decided to tar them all with the same brush. Because that all your doing oh apart the one you use. Love it when bodyshops get it wrong and people jump on the bandwagon slating bodyshops or painters.

Ok what ever job it is you do, and you fecked a job up would you do what ever it takes to put the job right, to install confidence back in the customer. And the end of the day were all human mistakes happen its how we put them right that matters. All this thread is doing is Wasting time it should never of been starts in the first place, should of been kept between the op and the bodyshop.


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## J.D

Everyone deserves a second chance to put things right.

Failure is not a mistake. It is sometimes all one can achieve in the circumstances. The mistake is to stop trying.


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## SteveTDCi

phazer said:


> I'd recommend the body shop I've used for the last 14 years to anyone who'll listen but it amazes me how people will relentlessly defend a business that has clearly failed. If it is your bread and butter there simply is no excuse for such a shoddy job.


So if I took you up on the offer of a reccomended bodyshop and they turned out less than perfect work would you say I should give them another chance or walk away ? No doubt ikustoms came reccomended and a decision would have been made based on previous work or word of mouth.

That comment isn't not provoke a negative reaction, just a view :thumb:


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## phazer

Andyb0127 said:


> Depends how you term finishing off, could mean what ever it take to finish the job.
> So you've had a bad experience with a bodyshop, and seen this thread and decided to tar them all with the same brush. Because that all your doing oh apart the one you use. Love it when bodyshops get it wrong and people jump on the bandwagon slating bodyshops or painters.
> 
> Ok what ever job it is you do, and you fecked a job up would you do what ever it takes to put the job right, to install confidence back in the customer. And the end of the day were all human mistakes happen its how we put them right that matters. All this thread is doing is Wasting time it should never of been starts in the first place, should of been kept between the op and the bodyshop.


No, not at all. I learned a hard lesson in the first instance. The guys I've been using have been nothing short of excellent. I have to say that it's also rare that I'll engage in this sort of debate, I'm far from a moaner, you don't know me but I'll say I've had lots of paint work done over the years and I've seen the cars in prep, after prep, straight out of the oven and final finishing so I've pretty much seen it all and have a reasonable expectation. The shop I use have also had the occassional off day but they put it right without a problem but we're not talking anything close to this issues raised here. I've passed more people their way that I can remember and they were top of the thanks list when the car over there <---- was magazine feature. I like my paint good, I like a good paint shop better.

I'm not disputing the painter wanting to put anything right, that at least is a positive. I don't agree that it's a waste of time, from the OPs point of view it could be the first time he's had a lot of paint work done and unsure of what to expect, a lot of my friends who aren't in to cars wouldn't know what a good paint job would look like. A forum is afterall a place for people to seek advice offer and receive opinion, if you remove those it's time to pack it in.


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## phazer

SteveTDCi said:


> So if I took you up on the offer of a reccomended bodyshop and they turned out less than perfect work would you say I should give them another chance or walk away ? No doubt ikustoms came reccomended and a decision would have been made based on previous work or word of mouth.
> 
> That comment isn't not provoke a negative reaction, just a view :thumb:


Fair question. I'd be more than slightly embarrased to have recommended a place that turned out a less than impressive finish. I've had work re-done at the place I use some, it happens sometimes. If the finished job showed a total lack of prep and regard for good work then I would indeed say cut your losses.


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## squiggs

If in some sort of spelling competition you were asked to spell a word, a word that you knew, that you knew how to spell correctly - but on this one occasion you happened to get it wrong ... Would it be right for someone to announce to the world that you can't spell for nuts, label you as illiterate - and that from this day on you require someone to check if you can actually understand and spell in English?
Or would it be fairer to give you the benefit of the doubt and let you have a chance to correct your spelling?


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## Guest

Andyb0127 said:


> Think the op and the painter need to meet, to resolve all the issues about everything. Yes the painter messed up but he's admitted that. But then the op took the car with looking at it thoroughly, so theres blame on both sides.
> 
> The painters said he will put this right can't be fairer than that, give him the chance to put this right. Everyone deserves a second chance. Because this topic just seems to be going round in circles.
> You've had the opinions of members you have to agree most have said give him a second chance to put this right. Your going to get so many different answers that will confuse the situation even more. No you may not want to let him near the car again, but would you trust another bodyshop. We all make mistakes. Now to me you made a mistake of taking the car, when ikustoms had clearly told you there was some bits that needed sorted out, not that I'm taking sides but you both need to sit down on neutral ground sort it out what your going to do.


I don't think that you actually helping anyone in this including the painter! and it just makes the thread longer!

There a 2 sets of facts!

To what end and to what gain I'd lie and start this thread - I don't know?

Because as you quite rightly point out I'am at a loss and not in a particularly good position now, being backed into a corner in terms of options.

This thread didn't just materialise without reason on the basis of nothing! I was strongly compelled based on evidence and what I believe and it certainly generated the opinions I sort - some posting repeatedly more than others.
But though my view hasn't changed I now consider this action misguided considering how the thread has developed.

Very stressful to all

I have already contacted the painter to attempt to seek an honest solution.

Hopefully one way or another I can then be very proud of my car again which is all I wanted! - today I really did consider the option of braking it for parts than go prolong this misery!

If there is a positive end I'll talk about it in equal measure to this thread.

DC


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## Guest

squiggs said:


> If in some sort of spelling competition you were asked to spell a word, a word that you knew, that you knew how to spell correctly - but on this one occasion you happened to get it wrong ... Would it be right for someone to announce to the world that you can't spell for nuts, label you as illiterate - and that from this day on you require someone to check if you can actually understand and spell in English?
> Or would it be fairer to give you the benefit of the doubt and let you have a chance to correct your spelling?


Seriously! come on!

Talking B*****KS (spelling test for you!)


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## stevief

C11PRA DC said:


> Hopefully one way or another I can then be very proud of my car again which is all I wanted! - today I really did consider the option of braking it for parts than go prolong this misery!
> 
> If there is a positive end I'll talk about it in equal measure to this thread.
> 
> DC


Correct me if I am wrong, but the painter has offered to fix it...

Where exactly is the problem with achieving this positive end, when a resolution is sitting on a plate for you?

I don't see why you are prolonging your own suffering over this. Let him try fix it, if it looks crap again, fair do's, move forward. But the first step from what I've read is waiting for you.


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## Andyb0127

C11PRA DC said:


> I don't think that you actually helping anyone in this including the painter! and it just makes the thread longer!
> 
> There a 2 sets of facts!
> 
> To what end and to what gain I'd lie and start this thread - I don't know?
> 
> Because as you quite rightly point out I'am at a loss and not in a particularly good position now, being backed into a corner in terms of options.
> 
> This thread didn't just materialise without reason on the basis of nothing! I was strongly compelled based on evidence and what I believe and it certainly generated the opinions I sort - some posting repeatedly more than others.
> But though my view hasn't changed I now consider this action misguided considering how the thread has developed.
> 
> Very stressful to all
> 
> I have already contacted the painter to attempt to seek an honest solution.
> 
> Hopefully one way or another I can then be very proud of my car again which is all I wanted! - today I really did consider the option of braking it for parts than go prolong this misery!
> 
> If there is a positive end I'll talk about it in equal measure to this thread.
> 
> DC


you want how this needs be put right.
Because of the ammount of paint it now has on, it will probably need to be paint stripped back to bare metal. bumpers will all need to be flatted back, all of it will need to be primed and prepped again. doors stripped out to blend colour. then time and care taken with prep the paint work.

You basically have three choices then.

1. Let the guy put this right.
2. take it some where else.
3. break the car for parts.

Why you are taking so long to come to a decision i dont know, your just making it worse for yourself. any advice you have been given in this thread seems to haver fallen on deaf ears, so its a waste of time because your not listening.
no point in posting any more, you know what you need to do.:wall:


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## Guest

stevief said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but the painter has offered to fix it...
> 
> Where exactly is the problem with achieving this positive end, when a resolution is sitting on a plate for you?
> 
> I don't see why you are prolonging your own suffering over this. Let him try fix it, if it looks crap again, fair do's, move forward. But the first step from what I've read is waiting for you.


Quote the whole post next time!

As I have said I'am trying to arrange a meeting next week with the painter to go through this with the painter to seek a resolution and allay any reservations - and we go from there - hopefully positively.

I can't go to a third attempt and it not be right regardless of who did that. Where would that end with panel after panel being worked on to correct the previous till the whole cars been worked on unneccesarily.

Theres nothing to protect the consumer from this possible outcome hence the hesitancy.

If it was a faulty product I'd have the right to a refund and buy another elsewhere but here you have to except the suppliers needs first.


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## Gizmo68

FFs just break the piece of crap then. 

YOU are the only one dragging it on by not giving the guy a chance to rectify the problems. :wall:


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## Kerr

C11PRA DC said:


> Quote the whole post next time!
> 
> As I have said I'am trying to arrange a meeting next week with the painter to go through this with the painter to seek a resolution and allay any reservations - and we go from there - hopefully positively.
> 
> I can't go to a third attempt and it not be right regardless of who did that. Where would that end with panel after panel being worked on to correct the previous till the whole cars been worked on unneccesarily.
> 
> Theres nothing to protect the consumer from this possible outcome hence the hesitancy.
> 
> If it was a faulty product I'd have the right to a refund and buy another elsewhere but here you have to except the suppliers needs first.


If you buy an item and it is faulty, you also have to allow the person to repair or replace it first.

This is dragging on a bit now.

You have come on here to ask advice, you've been given advice but you don't seem to want to know.

This thread is going round in circles for no reason.


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## Guest

Your assuming nothing's been happening but I have taken the advice and have been acting on it but that's not all been posted here. 

I contacted the painter 3 days ago and we are trying to set up a mutually agreeable time to meet next week to run through this - we are both busy! If we then both agree it's in both our interests to continue we will! If not I'll take it somewhere else. 

Just trying to mitigate further hassle for both.


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## Guest

Andyb0127 said:


> you want how this needs be put right.
> Because of the ammount of paint it now has on, it will probably need to be paint stripped back to bare metal. bumpers will all need to be flatted back, all of it will need to be primed and prepped again. doors stripped out to blend colour. then time and care taken with prep the paint work.


Thank you! this is exactly the type of opinion/info I was looking for here and have been trying to find out.


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## Guest

Gizmo68 said:


> FFs just break the piece of crap then.


A top end car it isn't but it doesn't mean I care any less.


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## Gizmo68

C11PRA DC said:


> A top end car it isn't but it doesn't mean I care any less.


Sorry if that sounded harsh, but you obviously are not thinking it through clearly if you are considering breaking it!!

ATEOTD this thread has gone on far too long going round in circles, if you want to make any sort of legal claim from the painter (although AIUI you have not paid anything yet anyway) then you MUST give the guy a chance to rectify his mistakes.

There is no point whatsoever in second guessing what it is going to look like after he has had the car back, all you are doing is stressing yourself out unnecessarily (to the point that you are talking about breaking the car!!).

Give the guy a chance to give it his best shot (which according to Rob, will be very good) and then re-asses the situation again.

If the car is good enough that you want the paintwork to be spot on then breaking it would not even be an option.

If it was me I would get this thread locked until the car has been done again and you can add something useful, all this going round and round in circles with everyone telling you exactly the same thing is just stressing you out and solving nothing.


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## Kerr

C11PRA DC said:


> Your assuming nothing's been happening but I have taken the advice and have been acting on it but that's not all been posted here.
> 
> I contacted the painter 3 days ago and we are trying to set up a mutually agreeable time to meet next week to run through this - we are both busy! If we then both agree it's in both our interests to continue we will! If not I'll take it somewhere else.
> 
> Just trying to mitigate further hassle for both.


Reading through this thread I do have sympathy for you.

However I don't think your attitude is helping one bit. You are coming across very poorly now.

The guy has offered to sort the work as he should. He knows what needs done and you have nothing to lose.

What made you use the bodyshop in the first place? You didn't just pick a random bodyshop and hope for the best?

You have managed to dedicate hours to this thread and seeking advice but are finding it difficult to make time for a meeting.

What takes more than 5 mins to discuss and sort out over the phone?

It sounds to me as if you are just being awkward and obstructive now.

By law you have to allow him the chance to rectify the problems so please do the right thing and stop this nonsense.

We do know the job isn't good but you are not helping the situation.


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## Andyb0127

C11PRA DC said:


> Thank you! this is exactly the type of opinion/info I was looking for here and have been trying to find out.


Well that's what I would do with it. Then paint wise the car originally sounds like it was clear over base. I would say I want the paint in keeping with the car and done in clear over has this time. Ok say you give him a second chance, why don't you get him to take photos of it at every stage to prove what he has done. Also his far away is the bodyshop why not specify that you will be calling in to see how the car is progressing it may put your mind at rest. No it's not a quick fix or a five minute job I know the expectations you have for the end result, which I'm sure can be achieved, the car will be at shows with you standing back admiring it. Trust me if seen a lot worse than this in the twenty years I've been in the bodywork trade, and I've made mistakes aswell and put them right. :thumb:


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## SteveTDCi

Kerr said:


> Reading through this thread I do have sympathy for you.
> 
> However I don't think your attitude is helping one bit. You are coming across very poorly now.
> 
> The guy has offered to sort the work as he should. He knows what needs done and you have nothing to lose.
> 
> What made you use the bodyshop in the first place? You didn't just pick a random bodyshop and hope for the best?
> 
> You have managed to dedicate hours to this thread and seeking advice but are finding it difficult to make time for a meeting.
> 
> What takes more than 5 mins to discuss and sort out over the phone?
> 
> It sounds to me as if you are just being awkward and obstructive now.
> 
> By law you have to allow him the chance to rectify the problems so please do the right thing and stop this nonsense.
> 
> We do know the job isn't good but you are not helping the situation.





Andyb0127 said:


> Well that's what I would do with it. Then paint wise the car originally sounds like it was clear over base. I would say I want the paint in keeping with the car and done in clear over has this time. Ok say you give him a second chance, why don't you get him to take photos of it at every stage to prove what he has done. Also his far away is the bodyshop why not specify that you will be calling in to see how the car is progressing it may put your mind at rest. No it's not a quick fix or a five minute job I know the expectations you have for the end result, which I'm sure can be achieved, the car will be at shows with you standing back admiring it. Trust me if seen a lot worse than this in the twenty years I've been in the bodywork trade, and I've made mistakes aswell and put them right. :thumb:


2 posts that make complete sense, and one of them works in a bodyshop .... believe me if it was my car i wouldn't be happy, but i would have checked the car over before i left and any issues i would have had noted, depending on the situation i would have either left the car there or agreed to bring it back in a few days, i would however have expected the car to be defect free before collecting it.

I fell out with my local Ford dealer (who i had used in the past) because they lacquered over a stone chip - which to this day i maintain was not there originally, either way i asked them why didn't they do it properly didn't they have pride in there work ... they just shrugged there shoulders, i went through an insurance assessor because it was part of a claim and they said you took it there your on your own ....... However if they had offered to repaint it i would have took them up on there offer knowing that it might not be 100% second time around.


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## jamie_s

I can see why you are hesitating but you have seen evidence that this man has the ability to produce good results am I right? And if you think about all aspects of this job I think he can/will rectify the issues. 

1st of all, as mentioned, 95% of you average customers wouldn't notice, or be bothered about areas not being thoroughly prepped before painting where headlights/bumpers/trim will cover, and am I right in thinking solvent pop wouldn't necessarily make itself evident immediately? 

I do a bit of painting myself with 2k etc and have experienced solvent pop once, and as far as I can remember it didn't appear straight away, and working to a deadline he may not have had chance to thoroughly examine the results, so when he returned the car to you he said there was some minor tidying up to do but may not have actually realised how much was left to do untill you take it back and he thoroughly examines it. 

Now the painter knows the kind of customer you are (OCD) like many of us on this site :lol: Im sure he knows the level of quality needed to make this right, even though he probably wouldn't normally have to produce these levels with his average customer, I think he is capable given the chance.


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## paulmc08

To be fair to the painter,although I posted earlier in the thread what I thought,he has been on here and reading all the post's,so I would think by now he has a good idea of what you want and expect from him,he could have quite easily of said "forget it and do what ever you want" he seem's to be a level headed fella as he could have come on here and let rip at some of the negativity,so maybe just get on and give him a chance to rectify the job:thumb:


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## Saab_viggen

Well I hope the spray shop sort the job out for you. looking at all your photos of your car after(math) pictures , it is truly shocking not only that someone sprayed this and was satisfied with his work, but that the actual business did NO NONE ZILCH quality control to inspect THEIR work respresentive of THEIR company, and seemingly they feel happy to employ a dont care approach leading to destroying the value of someones asset. I could of classed that as criminal damage. its not just a few over sights. I find it totally offensive that some spray shop let that go back to the customer. they might as well of delivered the car with a big steaming dump on the drivers seat as well, you know for good measure, just to rub it in. if that happened to my car, then the spray shop would never hear the end of it, A bit of over spray or buffing compound in the shuts, I would tell em hey you're not expecting me to clean that up are you?, and give them the chance to fix it, cos thats part of the job. when in some NVQ training, they dont say to you right this is how you spray a car to get it perfect, oh and the last most important thing to teach you is this: you must leave buffing compound and overspray on the vehicle or you wont get paid. They would never advocate that. so why should any customer be expected to have to put up with that.? 

but this job thats just an insult of epic proportions. so they might reasionably expect one customer one day to think think about getting someone to DOS attack their website server to get their website shut down, followed by a barrage of other nasties , screw up their phone lines etc & to leave them with a huge bill needing to employ engineers to fix, and loads of lost income. which is all too easy to arrange thesedays , just one skype call away to india, and $50 is all it takes. so Why cant companies QC their on work? they dont bother ? dont care enough about their business? dont care about the customer? or they dont care about their own business. now thats foolish to the n'th degree,.

I just cannot understand how any company would carry out work like that and let it go to the customer, if a company cannot deliver at least standard of work set by some NVQ asessor of that industry to get a pass mark, then they should not be in that business. Yes profit margins are tight in all trades, but not that tight they cant afford a pair of glasses and a 10min QC checklist.

In this spray job, I wouldnt even think to blame it on the paint guy, its the fault of the guy who gave this job the ok to go to customer, and fault of the guy who said the job must be done in 1hr less than the standard book time. The paint guy probably has been let down by the company forcing him to squeese in jobs in a time frame that is just unfeasable to complete the work according to his training and skill and own personal capacity. he's had the gun put to his head to rush finish a job, or walk and go home tell his wife and kids he's been fired. 

and before anyone suggest that business is like this and that the spray shop were forced to accept the job or rush the job because of profits - ie the rent needs paying or shop closes etc. then thats advocating like the right to go out and mug someone just to rob the needed cash to stay in business. Thats how I would read it if I took delivery of the yellow seat. Infact I would of rather they just mugged me for £100 on my wallet, I'd give them my wallet rather than destroy my car and personally insult me,.... just let me walk away and were easy ok.. ..ok im putting my wallet on the ground now... lets not do anythiong rash here...
its Either the cogs in the business turn and make money or they dont. and so with so much riding on the sucess of a job then every job should be governed by a TQM practice, or they are also giving money away in poor reputation and service. 

even like If a doctor pescribed a dose of drug to a patient and he misspelled or typo'd the dose when he pescribed it, or the nurse miss read 1.0cc to 10cc then the patient could very well die. I dont know why businesses dont seem to care and take a that'll do approach to their work. dont people find it just plain offensive that a company they hired to do a skilled job, just deliver a half-arsed result, its offensive because they think your too stupid or foolish or too illiterate of the job or task whatever to realise you've been had. and when anyone shouts 'hey stupid fool, your a sucker' I think anyone on this planet would find that ofensive. :thumb:


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## Saab_viggen

ps. where is the axe-to-grind icon. I cant find it ?


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## craigeh123

Christ is this thread still running


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## cleancar

what's the latest then ! , has this been sorted ?


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## Ninja59

cleancar said:


> what's the latest then ! , has this been sorted ?


here is a circle


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## squiggs

Would be nice to know if there was a conclusion to this.


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## cleancar

Ninja59 said:


> here is a circle


And?!!!!!


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## craigeh123

cleancar said:


> And?!!!!!


it has no end ?


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