# Iron X & Skin Reaction?



## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

Ive been using this for a while and just recently ive been getting sore hands from it sort of like a burn/rash that stings. I do use gloves but sometimes it still gets to my skin regardless, I recently decanted some into a bottle in the shed and must have got some on my face and it brand it out in a rash for a while. 

The reason for my post is not to slag off the product as I cant live without it its awesome, im just more concerned that if prolonged and continued contact with my skin would cause any long term damage?

PS I have very sensitive skin anyway I must admit and if I wash my willy with anything soap based it comes out a bit sore!  So this may just affect me and no one else!


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Try a test spot on your forearm to see if it is ironx, I suspect it is and this is one of the reasons I won't buy ironx.


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

defo Iron X!


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## Matt197 (Dec 27, 2006)

I had the same problem when I used it, made my hands red raw and very dry.

If you expose your hands to this type of chemical for a prolonged period then I bet it can cause some nasty symptoms.


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## bmwman (Jun 11, 2008)

Just be careful. I wouldn't test it on yourself though lol.


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## ford nut (Dec 12, 2011)

I had the same sort of reaction at work, one of my engineers placed too much TFR in an ultra sonic cleaning tank, the TFR is absorbed through the skin and burns from the inside out. had my hands in a bucket of cold water for an hour then down to the burns hospital for a dressing.... possibly worth getting thicker gloves and the type that come up to the elbow Dean...


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2012)

bigmc said:


> Try a test spot on your forearm to see if it is ironx, I suspect it is and this is one of the reasons I won't buy ironx.


Given that the majority of chemicals we use are designed to remove some quite stubborn dirt, I be suprised if many were skin, eye, etc safe.
I wear gloves even when just washing the car with shampoo - they are designed to remove grease (oils) and won't distinguish between skin or paintwork.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

BareFacedGeek said:


> Given that the majority of chemicals we use are designed to remove some quite stubborn dirt, I be suprised if many were skin, eye, etc safe.
> I wear gloves even when just washing the car with shampoo - they are designed to remove grease (oils) and won't distinguish between skin or paintwork.


So is soap but you still use it...
Marking something as an irritant isn't enough imho, it should have the risk and hazard phrases printed on it too, no good having them on an msds as they won't supply them to the public most of the time, definitely the case with ironx as I asked for it.


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

Bigmc, why dont you use it??


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## TheGooner84 (Jun 29, 2010)

i find the same when using as smart wheels that it irrates my hands and wrists


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## Paddy_R (Jan 10, 2007)

Try the other fall out removers (Wolfs deironiser, Orchard Iron Cleanse etc) they all do the same job essentially and no point exposing yourself to something which causes you issues when alternatives are readily available. It may just be something thats in iron x and not the others.


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

TheGooner84 said:


> i find the same when using as smart wheels that it irrates my hands and wrists


Smartwheels is said to have an ingredient that is known to cause cancer if inhaled too much.

Some nasty stuff around!


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

deanchilds said:


> Bigmc, why dont you use it??


PM sent to keep it away from the thread and over zealous eyes...


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

bigmc said:


> PM sent to keep it away from the thread and over zealous eyes...


Send me one too I'm curious. I don't use it either....


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Spoony said:


> Send me one too I'm curious. I don't use it either....


would you mind sending me one to please


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## Edstrung (Apr 6, 2009)

bigmc said:


> So is soap but you still use it...
> Marking something as an irritant isn't enough imho, it should have the risk and hazard phrases printed on it too, no good having them on an msds as they won't supply them to the public most of the time, definitely the case with ironx as I asked for it.


Soap isn't just for trade use though 

So many of the products I buy say 'For Professional Use Only' and there is usually a damn good reason for this. Not just giving trade a discount and retail products are more expensive, but instead much higher concentrations of active ingredients or potential hazards associates with the use of those products. It also is concerned with the waste of those hazardous products, but I'm assuming most people just rinse off down the drain into their local waste water treatment centre...:tumbleweed:

My hands are sensitive to 'something'. Been going on for a year or two longer than I've been into detailing so I'm pretty sure it's cosmetic goods and not polish or chemicals, especially as I wear gloves.

Common sense also comes into it. *Soap is meant to clean your skin, IronX melts iron*. At least OP used gloves but admitted still sometimes getting through or under the seal, or being transferred via touch to face in this case. Yes it probably is the Ironx. Why would you want to test it on your forearm? Just don't do it again and if you are worried about the irritation on your face, don't hesitate to use you local A+E. :thumb:


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2012)

deanchilds said:


> PS I have very sensitive skin anyway I must admit and if I wash my willy with anything soap based it comes out a bit sore!  So this may just affect me and no one else!


I pissed myself reading this bit Dean :thumb:


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Evening Dean
Sorry to hear you have a skin sensitivity. I also have a problem with a few chemicals used within my details and always make sure I have the correct PPE, when working with these types of products.

I have enclosed certain sections fro the MSDS sheet for IX and as you see. It does mention that it may cause sensitivity in some users. I guess you fall into this category.

*Section 1: IDENTIFICATION OF THE SUBSTANCE/PREPARATION AND OF THE
COMPANY/UNDERTAKING*

Identification of the substance or preparation Iron-X

*Section 2: HAZARD IDENTIFICATION*

Harmful

Harmful if swallowed

May cause sensitisation by skin contact

*Section 4: FIRST AID MEASURES*

Inhalation If patient feels unwell, remove from exposure and keep warm and at rest. Ensure airways are clear and give oxygen if breathing is difficult. If symptoms persist, seek medical attention.

Contact with skin Wash the affected area thoroughly with soap and water. If redness/irritation develops/persists, seek medical attention.

Contact with eyes Immediately irrigate with eyewash solution or clean water. Medical advice should be sought as a precautionary measure.

Ingestion Wash out mouth and dilute ingested chemicals with plenty of milk or water. Do NOT induce vomiting. Seek medical attention.

First aid facilities: Eyewash and normal washroom facilities.

Advice to doctor: Treat symptomatically.
*
Section 8: EXPOSURE CONTROLS/PERSONAL PROTECTION*

Occupational exposure limits No occupational exposure limits listed (EH40 - UK Health and Safety Executive) for hazardous components listed in section 3.
Ammonium Sulfanylacetate: INRS (FR) . 2006 VME 1mg/m3 ACGIH (US). 2007 TWA 1mg/m3

Hand/Eye/Skin Protection Hand, eye and skin protection should be worn if repeated exposure or splashing may occur.

Contact with skin should be minimised, In case of spillage, rubber boots and PVC suit should be worn.

Respiratory Protection Not normally required due to low volatility. However, if the product is being used in an enclosed area, respiratory protection is advisable.

Hope this helps Dean.
Gordon.



deanchilds said:


> PS I have very sensitive skin anyway I must admit and if I wash my willy with anything soap based it comes out a bit sore!  So this may just affect me and no one else!


Just used it down there also. As you will have to wear a special glove first :lol:


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## dazfr (Dec 23, 2011)

ironx made my hands red, must have metal fingers:thumb:


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## jebus (Jun 2, 2009)

a lot of products are strong chemicals, so best to use the proper PPE when using them, get a set of long thick rubber gloves should keep everything away from your skin, most likly to come in contact with the chemical.


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

I hope this don't come across like I'm causing trouble or slagging off the product? 

Take this for instance, me and the wife had an, encounter, for a few minutes earlier and now my little fella has a Rudolph look about him.


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

deanchilds said:


> I hope this don't come across like I'm causing trouble or slagging off the product?
> 
> Take this for instance, me and the wife had an, encounter, for a few minutes earlier and now my little fella has a Rudolph look about him.


Not the way i read it m8. You are only passing on your experiences to others. :thumb:

We all take car clean to relaxed and I am as guilty as the next person. It is only once you have had a reaction that you take heed. Or at least I do. :wall:


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

I use it everyday and have been noticing it more often, been using it for 6 months at least but in the strive for perfection I'm even using it on mini valets so therefore it's happening more often as I'm using it quite often as it's such an awesome product.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

deanchilds said:


> I hope this don't come across like I'm causing trouble or slagging off the product?
> 
> Take this for instance, me and the wife had an, encounter, for a few minutes earlier and now my little fella has a Rudolph look about him.


i bet you didn't wear a glove did you:thumb:


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

I did actually, it doubles the time.

Best 90 seconds of the week!


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

deanchilds said:


> I did actually, it doubles the time.
> 
> Best 90 seconds of the week!


 giving up your time and they think we don't care


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

[lol] dean.. 90 seconds..... someones showing off..

aren't all these iron removers high in peroxide? which causes a lot of people sensitivity issues in hair dyes ect.


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## stantheman (Dec 23, 2010)

C'mon guys, too much information! :lol:


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## MirfieldMat (Mar 13, 2011)

deanchilds said:


> I did actually, it doubles the time.
> 
> Best 90 seconds of the week!


That long???

back to topic - Having worked in the automotive industry for nearly 10 years on and off in various different areas, I have worked out that I have pretty high tolerance to stuff like that - I dont ever recall having a reaction to anything and I am a clumsy tool who is prone to dropping and spilling stuff - but I always wear gloves, generally marigolds. I look a pratt but i know my hands and forearms are ok. You are a proffessional Dean so I arent gonna try telling you what to do but maybe some better gloves are in order to be on the safe side :thumb:.

the problem with most products is you dont really know what is in them, so better to be safe than sorry.


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

deanchilds said:


> Smartwheels is said to have an ingredient that is known to cause cancer if inhaled too much.


Can you tell me which ingredient this is as im very concerned. Ive been using Smart Wheels for years and would like to know......


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

It was mentioned to me in a comment. I will try to find out the name of it but don't remember exactly off hand.


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

Do you have the MSDS sheet handy?


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## WannaBd (Dec 18, 2010)

deanchilds said:


> Smartwheels is said to have an ingredient that is known to cause cancer if inhaled too much.
> 
> Some nasty stuff around!


I printed out the safety sheet for active xls tfr from auto smart & that said known to cause cancer too! I was worried to say the least only Been using it a few months now but don't want to put my life at risk just to knock a bit of time off washing a customers car!! I think I'm going to email or pm autosmart.


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Smart wheels msds
http://www.autosmart.co.uk/images/P...OSHH sheets/Smart Wheels - SDS11086 - GBR.pdf


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## WannaBd (Dec 18, 2010)

The Doctor said:


> Can you tell me which ingredient this is as im very concerned. Ive been using Smart Wheels for years and would like to know......


Cancer warning for active xls tfr too on msds. Very worrying when using it daily all day!


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

deanchilds said:


> It was mentioned to me in a comment. I will try to find out the name of it but don't remember exactly off hand.


Id be very grateful if you could find out the information. Thanks.

Sent from my HTC using Tapatalk


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## WannaBd (Dec 18, 2010)

Msds for active xls tfr http://www.autosmart.co.uk/images/PDF Folder/Autosmart COSHH sheets/Active XLS - SDS11073 - GBR.pdf
Look at page 9 last line.


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## wookey (Jul 13, 2007)

Not sure if you mean Butoxyethanol on the Smart Wheels msds? That is pretty nasty stuff.


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

This is an MSDS just for the chemical I was told about...

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9923187


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

I shouldnt really play devils advocate but its Saturday night and im bored lol.

Butoxyethanol is on the class 3 list of carcinogens which means it has been suspected of causing cancer in lab animals in large doses. Theres no evidence of these chemicals in this list causing cancer in humans. Its less than 1% in concentrated Smart Wheels so will negligable once diluted and your using Smart Wheels in the open air so overall very unlikely to breathe significant amount of Butoxyethanol in. Always wear PPE with all chemicals though.

Just to put a different spin on it Butoxyethanol is used in most automotive glass cleaners at much much higher concentrations (30+ times as high) and these are being sprayed in a confined space with a high risk of the product being ingested.

With Deans reaction to Iron X it will be due to Ammonium Thioglycolate which is the main active ingredient.


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

WannaBd said:


> Msds for active xls tfr http://www.autosmart.co.uk/images/PDF Folder/Autosmart COSHH sheets/Active XLS - SDS11073 - GBR.pdf
> Look at page 9 last line.


The offending chemical there is Trisodium nitrilotriacetate. What is interesting about it is i have found one manufacturer whos upholstery cleaner contains it yet the msds does not have it labelled correctly as a class 2 carcinogen. Infact it does not have it labeled as a possible carcinogen at all :doublesho


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

True what you say about most Chems a spray can of fabric protection if inhaled will kill instantly.

All worrying none the less.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

The Doctor said:


> The offending chemical there is Trisodium nitrilotriacetate. What is interesting about it is i have found one manufacturer whos upholstery cleaner contains it* yet the msds does not have it labelled correctly as a class 2 carcinogen. Infact it does not have it labeled as a possible carcinogen at all* :doublesho


That's the worrying part about most of the chemicals we use, the newer stuff that supposedly works wonders are the worst, they usually work better due to harsher chemicals being used.


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

I suppose it just reminds us how important PPE is and common sense in use. I see people using products dangerously all the time and when i try to tell them to at least wear gloves they just laugh.


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

bigmc said:


> That's the worrying part about most of the chemicals we use, the newer stuff that supposedly works wonders are the worst, they usually work better due to harsher chemicals being used.


Also i think its time ALL manufacturers made their MSDS free to view for anybody and everybody not just handed them out to whom they choose. At least that way you can at least have a look through and have an idea with what you are dealing with and where any potential hazards occur.


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

any ody got one for wolfs nanotrim never got around to getting one


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## stantheman (Dec 23, 2010)

You may all be interested in this, especially you 'dean', it's what we use at work for skin protection, have a look at the demo vid. http://www.dermashield.co.uk/derma-shield-industrial-demonstration-video-1.html Hope you find it useful!


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

bmwman said:


> Just be careful. I wouldn't test it on yourself though lol.


No, that's why we have wives....

And for cooking.

And cleaning.

And other, more interesting things.....


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## Stomper (Jun 8, 2011)

stantheman said:


> You may all be interested in this, especially you 'dean', it's what we use at work for skin protection, have a look at the demo vid. http://www.dermashield.co.uk/derma-shield-industrial-demonstration-video-1.html Hope you find it useful!


Yeh i saw this in a thread last night and ordered myself one . Looks like a must have in any detailers kit .


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2012)

bigmc said:


> Marking something as an irritant isn't enough imho, it should have the risk and hazard phrases printed on it too, no good having them on an msds as they won't supply them to the public most of the time, definitely the case with ironx as I asked for it.





bigmc said:


> That's the worrying part about most of the chemicals we use, the newer stuff that supposedly works wonders are the worst, they usually work better due to harsher chemicals being used.


Couldn't agree more. It's worrying that an MSDS is not necessarily made available if you're not a pro. But also, as you say, clearer indications of the health risks of each product need identifying on the container in clear english - msds can be tricky to read and can often require further research to understand the affects of each hazardous chemical.

I must admit I always thought that is an msds was requested then, by law, it had to be supplied. Perhaps that is not the case?


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2012)

The Doctor said:


> I suppose it just reminds us how important PPE is and common sense in use. I see people using products dangerously all the time and when i try to tell them to at least wear gloves they just laugh.


Agreed, the amount of pictures you see on this site of people cleaning wheels etc without wearing any PPE is quite frightening.

Something that this thread has highlighted is that PPE needs more coverage on here as many users (including me) are non-pros without any COSHH training.
Also, even with good PPE practices, it is still necessary to understand what you are actually protecting yourself against when you use a product - which I guess comes back around to COSHH and hence determines the level of PPE needed.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

You shouldn't need any COSHH training (it's CLP, CHIP and REACH now) the information should be on the packaging on anything sold/produced after 1 December 2010.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

BareFacedGeek said:


> Agreed, the amount of pictures you see on this site of people cleaning wheels etc without wearing any PPE is quite frightening.
> 
> Something that this thread has highlighted is that PPE needs more coverage on here as many users (including me) are non-pros without any COSHH training.
> Also, even with good PPE practices, it is still necessary to understand what you are actually protecting yourself against when you use a product - which I guess comes back around to COSHH and hence determines the level of PPE needed.





bigmc said:


> You shouldn't need any COSHH training (it's CLP, CHIP and REACH now) the information should be on the packaging on anything sold/produced after 1 December 2010.


well ppe is seen as uncool (this coming from a Nebosh holder) got laughed at a few years ago for trying to highlight ear protection when using a machine polisher.,,

Coshh goes on top of chip and the like think explaining things to a (un pc term) retard and how to use something safely and that is coshh!


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## Franzpan (Mar 2, 2009)

bigmc said:


> So is soap but you still use it...
> Marking something as an irritant isn't enough imho, it should have the risk and hazard phrases printed on it too, no good having them on an msds as they won't supply them to the public most of the time, definitely the case with ironx as I asked for it.


Isnt it common sense though? Your a bit of a dippy if you need a label to tell you that ironX could harm/burn your skin.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Franzpan said:


> Isnt it common sense though? Your a bit of a dippy if you need a label to tell you that ironX could harm/burn your skin.


Common sense isn't common though, I know what they'll do to your skin but there's no saying the average numpty won't try and drink it/use it as suntan lotion etc. Either way the MSDS should be made available to any user of the product legally whether they're pro user or not.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

bigmc said:


> Common sense isn't common though, I know what they'll do to your skin but there's no saying the average numpty won't try and drink it/use it as suntan lotion etc. Either way the MSDS should be made available to any user of the product legally whether they're pro user or not.


well said cant find a msds for iron-x on line but it does claim to be ph neutral just like dove hand soap and shower gel...

best way to assume any form of health and safety mothering it to assume your talking to a 5 year old and treat everyone like idiots.....

after all there are people claiming compo for slipping on a wet floor (have you not got eyes?) or for stumbling in a pot hole (look where your walking)

of cutting a finger off in a milling machine or with a chainsaw.... err hello thing about it for 2 seconds it cuts wood...

best "tool box talk" i had was along the lines of.....

*Do not put your hands anywhere you wouldn't put you ***** * which when you think about it is correct

you wouldn't put mini me in a bottle of degreaser or into a cutter block


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Ah the old "don't put your hands where you wouldn't put your todger" speech. Works wonders on some of the morons we're forced to work with.


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

bigmc said:


> You shouldn't need any COSHH training (it's CLP, CHIP and REACH now) the information should be on the packaging on anything sold/produced after 1 December 2010.


the Harmful details are well written on IronX sticker. in the right size demand by the EU law :










no need special gloves for using the ironX , latex/nitrile gloves should be fine. 
ironX is pH neutral while spraying on surface or while no reaction with irons.
anyone who need the msds can contact the seller he bought it or contact us.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

I always use gloves when cleaning the car even washing as i find it drys out my skin.

Common sense really, people who dont are just either lazy or narrow minded.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

bigmc said:


> Ah the old "don't put your hands where you wouldn't put your todger" speech. Works wonders on some of the morons we're forced to work with.


glad its not just me......:thumb:

still doesnt stop them jabbing a rubber blanking grommet out of a 415v 3 phase cabinet with a chisel and thinking they are the stig changing gear with said chisel till there is a blue flash a big bang as they hit 88mph and the brown flux capacitor erupts in their pants...

(yes that did happen and fortnately the handle was wood and it earthed via the casing we think and threw the 100a mcb


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Just because the haz labels meet the legislation doesn't mean it's enough information for the user, the information is the bare minimum though that's the problem, nothing mentioned about the smell, use in well ventilated areas etc.
FYI I asked for the msds and never got one whic is why Wolfs brake duster is in my cupboard and not ironx.


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## RedUntilDead (Feb 10, 2009)

Not always easy wearing gloves though is it, I often catch and rip them when mauling in the engine bay or between spokes which renders them not that fit for purpose.
What about using a barrier cream? admitted I will always use gloves for strong chemicals but I will use a barrier cream prior to washing the car.


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

I do wear gloves majority of the time but what about when it's windy and blows on to uncovered skin? 

I'm not slagging of the product at all and if something is PH neutral then it shouldn't affect my skin worser then other normal wheel cleaners do?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Ben Gum said:


> It looks like the iron-x bottle spells it out... you should wear gloves so you can't complain if you don't wear them and end up with irritated hands. I don't get the big deal... do you really want to say that us users are so stupid that we need flashing lights and a siren to tell us to do the common sense thing and read the label before we use it?!


Doesn't quite spell out the full details though, a simple c+p from cquartz.com says:
4.* Please work in adequate ventilated space (we strongly suggest using face mask while working)*.

No mention of that on the bottle, I know the label are only a certain size and this is why risk and hazard phrases were brought out to be 2 or 3 digit codes which are universal.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Ben Gum said:


> To me that would tell me that I should wear a jumper and I would definitely be wearing glasses if there is the chance that a skin irritant might go in my eyes.
> 
> You cannot relate pH neutral to the danger of a product. Dissolve salt in water and it will be pH neutral but spray it on metal work and it will quickly be corrosive to it.


Sea water has pH of 9 so not pH neutral.

Also worth noting that healthy skin is slightly acidic with a pH of 4.5 to 5.5, and any rise in pH above this level allows bacteria to grow which can attack healthy skin.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Also worth adding that pH neutral products can still contain irritants.

It is not all about pH. Best advice, weargloves:thumb:


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## angelw (Nov 25, 2009)

It's not the ph of a product that determines the hazard ,it is what's in the product .
Vinegar is ph3 you still put it on your chips!


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

RedUntilDead said:


> Not always easy wearing gloves though is it, I often catch and rip them when mauling in the engine bay or between spokes which renders them not that fit for purpose.
> What about using a barrier cream? admitted I will always use gloves for strong chemicals but I will use a barrier cream prior to washing the car.


if your gloves are ripping buy something else i use heavy duty nitrile

eg

http://www.arco.co.uk/products/14A0500/51012/Chemgripz+Nitrile+Gloves+Blue



deanchilds said:


> I do wear gloves majority of the time but what about when it's windy and blows on to uncovered skin?
> 
> I'm not slagging of the product at all and if something is PH neutral then it shouldn't affect my skin worser then other normal wheel cleaners do?


dont spray it then apply to a applicator pad and wipe it on 



bigmc said:


> Doesn't quite spell out the full details though, a simple c+p from cquartz.com says:
> 4.* Please work in adequate ventilated space (we strongly suggest using face mask while working)*.
> 
> No mention of that on the bottle, I know the label are only a certain size and this is why risk and hazard phrases were brought out to be 2 or 3 digit codes which are universal.


love those type of comments think some times they dont really know what mask you ought to be using...

got a rubber half mask (and full face) and just end up using a ABEK p3 cartridge/s covers just about everything


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

> =andy monty;3312120
> 
> love those type of comments think some times they dont really know what mask you ought to be using...
> 
> got a rubber half mask (and full face) and just end up using a ABEK p3 cartridge/s covers just about everything


So right - the average Joe thinks their 50p dust mask from screwfix will protect them.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Think you will find near on everything cleaning wise is hazardous one way or another in incorrect levels of dilution or usage. Some of teh most supposed safe products arent what they are made out to be and contain nastyness and where did this thread all go wrong and change over to Deano's weaner:lol:


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

fatdazza said:


> So right - the average Joe thinks their 50p dust mask from screwfix will protect them.


And sadly most shop staff in these places just push something they have on stock or dont really know themselves, I wont bother with a basic dust mask they never seem to seal and end up steaming up my glasses


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

Is there any safety advice let alone coshh on iron x?, I'll have to check though I always where gloves and goggles when using anything other than a bucket and sponge (well wrap round Oakley safety specs). 

Used iron x in Saturday and was impressed, though all my wheel balance weights fell off.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Danno1975 said:


> Is there any safety advice let alone coshh on iron x?, I'll have to check though I always where gloves and goggles when using anything other than a bucket and sponge (well wrap round Oakley safety specs).
> 
> Used iron x in Saturday and was impressed, though all my wheel balance weights fell off.


I am amazed :doublesho - when cleaning off balance weight sticky pads I had to resort to plastic razor blades. Those pads stick like sh1t to a blanket and even tardis did not shift it. Iron x was fantastic at removing baked on brakedust though:thumb:


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

Beau Technique said:


> Think you will find near on everything cleaning wise is hazardous one way or another in incorrect levels of dilution or usage. Some of teh most supposed safe products arent what they are made out to be and contain nastyness and where did this thread all go wrong and change over to Deano's weaner:lol:


My ***** is made of iron

x :lol:


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

deanchilds said:


> My ***** is made of iron
> 
> x :lol:


Has it gone rusty through lack of action:lol:


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

deanchilds said:


> My ***** is made of iron
> 
> x :lol:


well wash your hands after using iron-x or when you go for a slash it will turn white!:doublesho

As well as that comment been mildly amusing its a fair point one of the main cancers to affect mechanics is testicular cancer caused by going to the loo and whipping little dean out and pointing it in the general direction of the pot using an oily hand


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

fatdazza said:


> Has it gone rusty through lack of action:lol:


No but the fallout is shocking, so she tells me!


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## Ronnie (Nov 15, 2006)

oh dear me right into the gutter!!!


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## Lupostef (Nov 20, 2011)

Does react with me, I dd have some nasty burns 2 years ago that have left some bad scaring and nerve damage especially to my hands and forearms, I can't feel the pain of it as such due to nerve damage but it makes my skin dry and red spotty rashes do break out! I'll test it on a patch of skin and stick some pictures up :thumb:.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

iron remover.... and the human body........

http://www.nelsonsnaturalworld.com/...one/iron-essentials/role-of-iron-in-the-body/

"The production of enzymes (which play a vital role when it comes to the production of new cells, amino acids, hormones and neurotransmitters) also depends on iron, "

having read all the above link i wonder if there any long term health effects related to regular exposure and accumulation of the product in the body


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

I'm regretting posting this, don't want to be the forum **** because of it!


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

ohh guess the starred out word time :devil:


You have raised a serious point though not just about iron-x but "trade" Chemicals used at home by what you can call "novice users" Who are used to using the "watered down" domestic cleaning chemicals from the local supermarket suddenly finding themselves out of their depth and possibly injuring themselves

Not to mention if you have kids or pets who are roaming the garden whilst you clean the car.......
:thumb:

Also people need to think about other cleaning chemicals such as a well known tar remover which is highly flammable how many people know how to safely avoid static build up and have adequate fire fighting equipment should the worst happen


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

fatdazza said:


> I am amazed :doublesho - when cleaning off balance weight sticky pads I had to resort to plastic razor blades. Those pads stick like sh1t to a blanket and even tardis did not shift it. Iron x was fantastic at removing baked on brakedust though:thumb:


In fairness the weight fell off its pad , used valet pro tar and glue to get the pad off as stuck it back on with a permanent number plate pad.


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## Sue J (Jan 26, 2006)

WannaBd said:


> I printed out the safety sheet for active xls tfr from auto smart & that said known to cause cancer too! I was worried to say the least only Been using it a few months now but don't want to put my life at risk just to knock a bit of time off washing a customers car!! I think I'm going to email or pm autosmart.


Hi WannaBd 
The raw material in question is called NTA, which is a water softener used in a lot of industrial and household cleaning products for many years.

When mice and rats were fed very high levels of neat NTA in a trial, a very small number developed tumours. The rats only developed tumours after eating huge quantities of NTA, not from coming in contact with it.

Despite NTA being used widely for many years it has never been linked to cancer in humans. The key differences are
• NTA is not ingested. 
• NTA levels in detergents and cleaners are very low - Active XLS contains only 0.13% in use. (remember the mice and rats were eating huge quantities)
• Use of recommended protective personal equipment eliminates any risk

However, in the interest of public information, the EC decided that there should be some reference to these test results when NTA is used in a product. This is covered by Regulation EC1272/2008 and the classification is R40 "limited evidence of carcinogenic effect."

The following phrase has been added to Section 11 of the H&S Data Sheet
"Nitrilotriacetic acid, trisodium salt (NTA) has caused kidney tumours in rats and mice when administered orally in high concentrations. The tumours are based on organ damage that can only occur when extremely high threshold limit concentrations, as compared with possible human exposure, are exceeded. In view of the potential degree of exposure, there should be no cancer risk to humans."

Hope this helps put your mind at rest. If H&S thought there was any risk to human health then they would be stopping the manufacture pretty rapidly.

Do let me know if you want any more information.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Not read all of this but I'm surprised any of the new breed of decontamination gels/sprays haven't come under this sort of spotlight before now. 

I realised it was potentially nasty stuff last January as soon as I opened the bottle (the bloke whose unit I was borrowing poked his head outside as he thought I'd shat myself...). Figured I'd need some proper protection so I wore gloves during application and added goggles when PW-ing off.

Someone told me that it's essentially diluted acid with some colouring added so should be treated with relevant caution and used only rarely. I've only used once since (Purple Rain) in a very small dose to remove some stubborn marks on a wheel. Switched to clay otherwise.


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## organisys (Jan 3, 2012)

Most things used in car cleaning are not going to be good for your skin, except from pure water and maybe pure waxes. ;-)

I always wear Latex gloves. Daft not too imho.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

organisys said:


> Most things used in car cleaning are not going to be good for your skin, except from pure water and maybe pure waxes. ;-)
> 
> I always wear Latex gloves. Daft not too imho.


Pure as in DI water is a pretty bad solvent. As for latex gloves, they're pointless in anything with any solvents.


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## Franzpan (Mar 2, 2009)

bigmc said:


> Common sense isn't common though, I know what they'll do to your skin but there's no saying the average numpty won't try and drink it/use it as suntan lotion etc. Either way the MSDS should be made available to any user of the product legally whether they're pro user or not.


I know what you mean. Its all GCSE's and degree's these days but its surprising how many people lack a bit of common sense or inititave.

How do you guys avoid letting water into your gloves whilst washing? I find as soon as I dip my mitt into the bucket, the water (and chemicals) go straight down my glove.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Franzpan said:


> I know what you mean. Its all GCSE's and degree's these days but its surprising how many people lack a bit of common sense or inititave.
> 
> How do you guys avoid letting water into your gloves whilst washing? I find as soon as I dip my mitt into the bucket, the water (and chemicals) go straight down my glove.


This helps


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## Deanvtec (Mar 3, 2008)

Franzpan said:


> I know what you mean. Its all GCSE's and degree's these days but its surprising how many people lack a bit of common sense or inititave.
> 
> How do you guys avoid letting water into your gloves whilst washing? I find as soon as I dip my mitt into the bucket, the water (and chemicals) go straight down my glove.


Easy buy some Heavy duty Polychloroprene coated Rubber gloves with soft cotton lining, I wear them daily, they are long enough for your hand to reach the bottom of your bucket without water/chemicals getting in, can always put nitrile gloves underneath aswell.
Chemical resistan and very strong.

Got agree with you about the amount of people lacking a bit of common sense.

Simples really.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

bigmc said:


> Pure as in DI water is a pretty bad solvent. As for latex gloves, they're pointless in anything with any solvents.


You seen the case where someone was suing the manufaturer of a Di resin kit as they had been drinking it for years and doctors finally found out that they were DI water thinking it was healthy and it was striping calcium from their body.... They beleved since it was pure water it would be better than drinking tap water


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

andy monty said:


> You seen the case where someone was suing the manufaturer of a Di resin kit as they had been drinking it for years and doctors finally found out that they were DI water thinking it was healthy and it was striping calcium from their body.... They beleved since it was pure water it would be better than drinking tap water


It always amazes me to see ro and di filters advertised as drinking water. We need some of the minerals they remove, even when I use it in my aquarium I remineralise to the right parameters.


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## stantheman (Dec 23, 2010)

Stomper said:


> Yeh i saw this in a thread last night and ordered myself one . Looks like a must have in any detailers kit .


I've followed this thread and it's been an eye opener to say the least! It's served a useful pupose (with me anyway) and followed 'Stomper' in purchasing the Ultimate skin protection (via mousse) for home use, it can safely be used anywhere on the body ( which includes deans todger!) is food safe, for all skin types, will not wash off and lasts 4 to 5 hours.
For those of you who missed my thread the other night then here is the link. http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=252803
Just watch the dem vid in it's entirety especially the bit where he pours hydrochloric acid on his hand.
After all we all want the best protection for our cars so why not for our skin?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

The HCl part of that video is nothing special, you get about 30-40 seconds before HCl starts burning on your skin, sulfuric is much worse on skin.


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## stantheman (Dec 23, 2010)

It claims to be effective on Sulphuric and Nitric acids as well!


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## Edstrung (Apr 6, 2009)

I have bought some of that in the smallest size to give it a go, but I had to laugh at the part in the video when he puts the acid on his hands and he immediately says 'it doesn't de-sensitise' as his body twitches 

For me it's the delivery medium, barrier creams I find greasy long after application. I'll make up my own mind in terms of effectiveness. I get a feeling as no 'special' or active ingredient is mentioned bar aloe, it going to be something simple, yet hopefully effective  

I've just taken over a cafe for a local charity and the amount of cleaning I'll be doing will be insane and often in high heats, I'll need every bit of protection I can get 

Compared to most trade chemicals I'll use on cars the chemicals I'll be using will be week. Anything like IronX or Tardis or even some sealants and waxes, common sense says use protection yes.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Edstrung said:


> I've just taken over a cafe for a local charity and the amount of cleaning I'll be doing will be insane and often in high heats, I'll need every bit of protection I can get
> 
> Compared to most trade chemicals I'll use on cars the chemicals I'll be using will be week. Anything like IronX or Tardis or even some sealants and waxes, common sense says use protection yes.


Just because they are weak doesn't make it any less damaging i used to work in a food factory and just the constant washing of hands is enough to cause a lot of discomfort and its own risks such as irritant contact dermatitis

http://www.hse.gov.uk/skin/employ/dermatitis.htm


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## organisys (Jan 3, 2012)

bigmc said:


> Pure as in DI water is a pretty bad solvent. As for latex gloves, they're pointless in anything with any solvents.


Pure was poor wording on my part, I meant just tap water, as in without soaps or APC etc.


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## Edstrung (Apr 6, 2009)

andy monty said:


> *just the constant washing of hands is enough* to cause a lot of discomfort and its own risks such as irritant contact dermatitis


Exactly :thumb:
Thats why even with weak chemicals or weak dilutions, I still have to glove up :speechles

Move onto anything remotely strong or 'hazardous' or 'toxic', and its a no brainer


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## WannaBd (Dec 18, 2010)

Sue J said:


> Hi WannaBd
> The raw material in question is called NTA, which is a water softener used in a lot of industrial and household cleaning products for many years.
> 
> • Use of recommended protective personal equipment eliminates any risk
> ...


Thanks Sue, I was just worried as it's the only product I use daily that had that risk listed. I suppose as with all chemicals you have to protect yourself the best way possible from the risks.


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## Skimask (Jan 7, 2012)

Remember folks, these cleaning products are strong chemicals. Its not the short term usage that is the problem, it is when you've been using them for a few years. It does take its toll on the body. It may take years for the chemical exposure you have now, to show up as problems in later life. 

Always best to keep exposure to them to the absolute minimum. 
It will be better for you in the long run. 

Also please do read the labels!!!


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## Stomper (Jun 8, 2011)

Edstrung said:


> I have bought some of that in the smallest size to give it a go, but I had to laugh at the part in the video when he puts the acid on his hands and he immediately says 'it doesn't de-sensitise' as his body twitches
> 
> For me it's the delivery medium, barrier creams I find greasy long after application. I'll make up my own mind in terms of effectiveness. I get a feeling as no 'special' or active ingredient is mentioned bar aloe, it going to be something simple, yet hopefully effective
> 
> ...


Have you got it yet . I got mine last week and my hands are almost a worlds apart from last week . I use it before i go to work with the carpets . And use it before i go out in the garage at night . 
Works 100% like they showed in the demo . Only thing it doesnt do is keep under your nails clean .
2 really dry areas on my hand are now almost suple again and my hands have never been cleaner in years .
Wont run out of this stuff from now on .


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

You sound like a gay mans dream Mark lmao


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## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

My concern is what legislation is there to regulate manufacture, other than labelling laws? 

For example, if I went out tomorrow, found a chemist/someone with some chemistry knowledge, bought a load of bulk ingredients, and started making 'dominic84's dirt blaster 3000' - who knows if it's safe? Or would it have to be tested by a lab to certify that it's not some half-****ed lethal recipe?


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## Stomper (Jun 8, 2011)

Grizzle said:


> You sound like a gay mans dream Mark lmao


Hey sir . 1st time i had soft hands in years . 
Wonder how long before the wife realises i can put my hands in dishwater safely now .


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## Sue J (Jan 26, 2006)

The actual legislation is endless. Labelling regs, raw material restrictions, transportation regs, packaging regs, manufacturing regs, H&S regs. We have 2 people employed full time just to ensure that we keep on top of all this.

The issues are not with the legislation itself but with the enforcement. Authorities are still not great at picking up the people who do exactly what you say and put out Dominic’s Dirt Blaster, in an illegal container, without the correct H&S advice, incorrectly labelled and then posted out or delivered in a vehicle by someone who has not had any ADR training. 

We regularly come across products that break some or all of the above legislation and we always report them to the relevant authority. However, they are often frustratingly slow in responding. I’m sure some break the laws through ignorance – it is incredibly time consuming and expensive keeping up with legislation that changes all the time. Others do it wilfully in a bid to keep costs down and to make the products seem more attractive, unburdened by lots of hazard symbols.


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