# Defined Details - Correct Scottish Detailers Work



## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

*Defined Details - Correct a Scottish Detailers work.*​
First of all I would like to ask that this thread does not turn into a witch hunt or go off the rails.
As we are dealing with a good deal of people within this thread. Namely the owner and the said detailer. I will not be drawn into naming this person. But I do hope he sees that his present work, ethics and quality of his work is are totally unacceptable and turns things around. Peoples cars are they pride and joy and as a detailer you are entrusted to carry out all contacted work to the highest of standards and not simply cover things over to a later day for the sake of financial benefits.
The owner of this car attended one of our polishing class held in Glasgow. He wished to learn the aspects of machine polishing, with his friend on the day. But during the course of the day it soon became apparent that he was slightly disillusioned with the industry or detailing. Which did surprise us, as he soon mastered the art of machine control and working very well on the tasks laid down on these types of days.
He started to enquire about a 1 to 1 course asking costs and what he could expect to be taught on these days. But he later took both Dave and us by surprise when he asked us to accompany him to his Audi. He explained at he had his car professionally detailed a few months ago and since then was unhappy with the results and would like us to correct the car during a 1 to 1 training day. We explained that we felt that he at least should contact the Detailer and explain this to him, and ask to get the defects removed. Rather than paying twice to get his car corrected. He informed us that the car had already been back a total of 3 times now and it was still not to his standards. So would like to make a booking to correct these issues.​
At this point the booking was made and terms of the 1 to 1 training day discussed in more detail. This would have normally been the end of the matter and if it was not for the owner wishing to show off the quality of the work he attained on the day and unfortunately a few more cars from the same detailer. This thread would never have been written.
But unfortunately we have now corrected a further 3 cars with worse defects than the one in this write up and 2 that have still to cross our doors. Due to a M5 having a few areas of clear coat failure on the bonnet and an Audi A4 with a strike through under a style line. These cars are now getting attended to in a body shop prior to being detailed and correcting the other defects on these cars.
This standard to work only demeans the industry as a whole and affects everyone that looks on detailing as a hobby or a profession. But unfortunately it is becoming more and more prevalent as future write ups will prove, from other areas of the UK including down south.​
So please can we keep this thread civil and orderly when reading and replying to this matter.
Gordon.​
On to the detail.
The days started off as any other 1 to 1 training. But as owner had already attended a training day in the past. So a quick refresher course on the DA was order of the day. Dave and I started to assess the paint and defects measuring the paint as we when. Now for a relatively new car there was a number of areas that showed very thin paint readings and a lot of inconsistent reading across the vehicle. This could only be down to the car having been machine polished with aggressive compounds or repeated visits to get the issues address in the past.​
The bonnet was in relatively good condition although readings where very patchy in places. There was a few deeper RDS still present and these where corrected where the paint allowed.​








​








​








​








​








​
Due to the condition of the panel these where treated locally with Intensive polished on a heavy cutting spot pads and The owner later refined the finish with a polishing pad and 10fa.
*Bonnet Finished.*​








​








​








​
At this point Dave and I split up. Dave carried on down the O/S and I down the near side. Monitoring the paint prior, during and after and tackling all the defects still present. The owner later followed us down both sides of the car, refining as he went. As you will notice in the pictures the condition of the car deteriorates considerably as we move along the sides of the car.​
*N/S Front Wing.*








​








​








​








​
After Correction & Refining.​








​








​








​








​
*N/S Door.*​








​








​








​








​








​








​
*Afters.*​








​








​








​








​
*N/S ¾*​








​








​








​








​








​








​








​








​
*Afters.*​








​








​








​








​








​








​
*O/S Front Wing*​








​








​








​
*Afters.*​








​








​








​
*O/S Door.*​








​








​








​








​
*Afters.*​








​








​








​








​
*O/S ¾*​








​








​








​








​








​
*Afters*​








​








​








​








​








​








​
*Hatch.*​








​








​








​








​








​








​








​
*Afters Hatch*​








​








​








​








​








​
Like all these 1 to 1 training days they finish long after the sun goes down. So only in door afters shots. But I am sure you will agree that the owner did a fantastic job on his own car. So much so he then booked in is Misses company car which unfortunately had went through the same process as this one had prior.
Write up to follow soon.
Durability was order of the day here. So we opted for colly 476, Trims & rubber seals dressed with Miglinore tyre and trim. Tyres dressed with Espuma RD50. Exhaust with brilliant range of polishes. Wheels sealed with FK 1000P.​








​








​








​








​








​








​








​








​








​








​








​








​
Over Head lights turned off and a little sneaky pic.​








​
Sorry for such a long post. But due to the circumstances I felt it was only fitting. So please once again. Please consider all parties within this post, when posting up any questions or replies. The owner of the Audi and I do not hold any malice towards the original detailer & as pointed out at the start of the thread it is only to highlight certain issue that have become apparent in resent cars we have worked on or viewed.​
I would also like to take this opportunity, to wish 
Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year.
To the whole of Detailing Worlds membership from all at Defined Details.​
Gordon.​


----------



## Tim_2 (Dec 9, 2010)

That was in a shocking condition! Nice turn around Gordon. 

I would be ashamed to hand a car over in the original condition. Especially when you consider that reputation is everything in this game, they take forever to create, yet one bad job can destroy it in an instant.


----------



## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Nice write up Gordon and a diplomatic thread highlighting the other side of the detailing coin. Im sure the owner is very happy now and will continue to use your services.
The problem with this trade is you are only as good as your last job.


----------



## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

cracking turn around i am sure the owner will be happy with those results, sorry to hear about his original grief not nice


----------



## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Not trying to play devils advocate here but you say the detailing was done 3 months previous, couldn't the swirling have been inflicted during that time? We all know wash technique plays a major role in inflicting damage, what's the owners wash technique?


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 12, 2010)

bigmc said:


> Not trying to play devils advocate here but you say the detailing was done 3 months previous, couldn't the swirling have been inflicted during that time? We all know wash technique plays a major role in inflicting damage, what's the owners wash technique?


I was thinking the same, (not wanting to be a pain) But always a arguement:thumb:


----------



## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Professional job as always guys and an equally professional write up


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

Doesn't surprise me at all- the industry is FULL of cowboys and would not trust anybody on my car anymore. Do it yourself I say!


----------



## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Im sure a little of the swrling could well of been inflicted by the owner ( not having a dig but seen it before )
As for the holograms, that there is pure poor refinishing. I wouldnt go as far as to say the industry is FULL of cowboys but there certainly is a handfull that offer the services then **** it right up.
Either way the car looks better.


----------



## Eurogloss (Jan 22, 2008)

Considering the condition that the car was in before, you guys have done a fantastic job :thumb:

BTW , excellent write up Gordon :thumb:

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year !


Regards Mario


----------



## wookey (Jul 13, 2007)

Excellent write up. Sure a few swirl marks could be inflicted over the months after correction, but not the rest of the defects, especially strike through!

What I do find a bit odd is that the customer then took his partners car to the same detailer? He must of been happy at the time, otherwise why would you take another car there?

I can only assume he didn't know then, what he knows now in terms of quality and correct finishing?


----------



## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Good finish, I was waiting for this post when you mentioned it last week can't believe he would think that's a proper professional detail!! He will know who he is no doubt, and I guess we will have more to come eh Gordon


----------



## paulmc08 (Feb 3, 2009)

ianFRST said:


> i dont think it looks too bad? that could have been inflicted on the drive back home visiting a hand car wash?
> 
> and how would it affect you as a detailer  i dont really get your post tbh


I think he's from the same area where the detail was done,and doesnt want to be associated with the said detail/detailer,as people looking work carried out may think it is him.


----------



## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

ianFRST said:


> i dont think it looks too bad? that could have been inflicted on the drive back home visiting a hand car wash?
> 
> and how would it affect you as a detailer  i dont really get your post tbh


It's a very valid point that the marring etc could be easily put back in but that doesn't explain the buffer trails that can easily be seen in some of the defect shots.


----------



## paulmc08 (Feb 3, 2009)

qstix said:


> There is more and more of this cropping up all over the country. I think a few people have a look on here, and think, well that looks easy, tomorrow I will set up as a pro detailer..
> 
> What it does is make life difficult for the true decent detailers, like the ones on this detail..
> 
> ...


Exactly:thumb:

A lot of average valleters are now calling them selves detailer's because they own a rotary

I can kick a football so does that make me a Premiership footballer!!


----------



## petemattw (Nov 3, 2008)

12th picture from the bottom is still showing the rear number plate!


----------



## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

^^ So?


----------



## RRobert (Aug 10, 2007)

We need a Scottish super Sleuth......how's about.....










:lol:


----------



## Rick74 (May 31, 2009)

Great turnaround again Dave and Gordon.


----------



## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

I can appreciate the comments made with regards the swirl marks in certain areas of the car and I was of the same impression when I first view the car. But I have now seen the second car which is a brand new Audi also. Which apart from holograms on certain panels there is very little swirl marks present. So have no doubt the owner can safely wash a car using the 2bm. He is also a member on here for a very long time. So much like the rest of us has read up and gained the knowledge from the forum also.
Also due to the fact that most of the picture I have zoomed in on. This gives the impression that it is swirls present on the car surface. Which they are but very fine. Zoom out and it shows up as Holograms or buffer trails. These can only be attributed to bad machining and not fully working the polish or it not been refined properly.































But going wholly by the information I have gained. I now have no doubt in believing that the car left with very little defects visible on the car. Hence the reason for he second car being booked in. But after a few snow foams and rinses the marring started to show. (Fall Back) It was at this point the car was returned to the original guy to be attended to. Unfortunately this was not resolved after a few visits and was then booked in with us. Now weather a filler heavy product was used or if it was just a simple case of not carrying out an IPA wipe down in between set, to gauge the true finish I can only guess. But it certainly sounds the case.
The other cars that have been in also, come with the same unfortunate story.
But what I will add to rest sure everyone. That everyone that has post thus far is not the person in question.
Gordon.


----------



## javierpeba (May 2, 2010)

Really good correction! this is what i say great job mens :thumb:


----------



## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

Good job by Gordon, Dave and Steven well done guys and a great learning oppo for Steven


----------



## s3 rav (Apr 30, 2008)

Very interesting read.


----------



## missyR (Oct 6, 2008)

I had the joy of seeing the car and was totally gobsmacked to learn it had been detailed previously! 

Good to see the turnaround on it and the final outcome. Nice works guys


----------



## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

missyR said:


> I had the joy of seeing the car and was totally gobsmacked to learn it had been detailed previously!
> 
> Good to see the turnaround on it and the final outcome. Nice works guys


I had the pleasure of watching Gordon and Steve finish off the detail on Steve's wife's A3, and needless to say the finish was stunning. And, thanks to the various types of lighting used, it was clear to see that it was the true finish :thumb: I wish I could have seen the 'before' finish, but there we go.

As an aside, I feel that Gordon's approach to this thread has been entirely professional. Some may say that it would be more professional to name the detailer concerned, in order to warn others that their work currently isn't up to scratch, but I feel it would actually be entirely unprofessional as it would just result in some nasty slanging match. Far better to be discreet in drawing his attention to the fact that he needs to up his game.


----------



## welsh_ben (Dec 27, 2010)

to a passer by like myself i wouldnt notice such litte things but after seeing the photos,wow thats an awesome turn around


----------



## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

guys although there are some valid points this has gone waaay off topic. can we get back to the work done, and leave the witch hunting and detail policing for another day.


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Deano said:


> guys although there are some valid points this has gone waaay off topic. can we get back to the work done, and leave the witch hunting and detail policing for another day.


Perhaps another thread should be started then, as personally I think this is a vital topic that really should be aired - sooner, rather than later, and the discussion here is providing really valuable ideas.


----------



## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

dave i believe there are several already.


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Deano said:


> dave i believe there are several already.


To what effect? And where? If this problem is persisting on a greater and greater level.


----------



## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

dave i'm pretty sure there is a lengthy discussion about it in the pro section? if not i stand corrected, by all means have a search cos this has deffo been addressed before.


----------



## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

Good correction achieved.


----------



## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

by all means start a thread on it somewhere as you see fit, but its not fair on the other supporters to have this discussion on this thread as it will be bumped every two minutes.


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Deano said:


> dave i'm pretty sure there is a lengthy discussion about it in the pro section? if not i stand corrected, by all means have a search cos this has deffo been addressed before.


How does a discussion in the pro section help the rest of the membership?

Off topic this thread may have gone (I am seeing no witch hunt in he recent posts...), but such is the importance of what is being discussed, I think it has serious forum merit. Far far too often are posts of "detailed" cars going up with absolutely no information on them whatsoever, and the membership are getting no real information as to what constitutes a paint correction, and a quality finish, which is to the detriment of customers and professional detailers alike.


----------



## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

see my above post.


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Deano said:


> by all means start a thread on it somewhere as you see fit, but its not fair on the other supporters to have this discussion on this thread as it will be bumped every two minutes.


I'm not sure I understand the logic - as mentioned above, this discussion is clearly _to the benefit of supporters_ to help improve the industry, and it has been throwing up some good ideas with some very important points raised...


----------



## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Totally agree with that last post Dave, however a lot of pros have been reluctant to post lately I've found, possibly due to the number of "amateurs" that chip in. I'm first to admit I struggle to see holograms unless on very dark colours, but I'm willing to read and learn.


----------



## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

as i said, start another discussion if you wish but this isnt the section for said discussion. i'll even move the relevant posts into the new thread from this one.


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

A lot of the discussion is about postings in the Studio however, hence why I find it relevant...

Perhaps you can put a sticky of the important points at the top of the Studio so people can read it...


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Perhaps the reason I am keen to see this discussion is because of the effects it has for so many... to stop it seems to me to be preventing a very open and honest discussion that has potnetially very many positive effects, ceterring on the studio. Slightly out of place it may be, but surely given the importance of what is being discussed, that should not really matter... surely....


----------



## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

The discussion does have merits - absolutely. But to honour what Gordon himself asked for in his opening line....

_"First of all I would like to ask that this thread does not turn into a witch hunt *or go off the rails.*"_

I'll respectfully state that all posts from this point onwards remain about the actual work carried out please. And I do mean it. Another time and place and it can be discussed properly :thumb:

Thankyou


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Viper said:


> The discussion does have merits - absolutely. But to honour what Gordon himself asked for in his opening line....
> 
> _"First of all I would like to ask that this thread does not turn into a witch hunt *or go off the rails.*"_
> 
> ...


Can we see this discussion on open forum soon please, to ensure that many of the points made here are not simply lost?


----------



## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

on topic please gentlemen. start another thread in detailing chat if you wish.


----------



## alx_chung (Aug 13, 2006)

Great work as usual Gordon and Dave. Its annoying when you have to fix someone's shoddy work but that is the way that things go sometimes
Hope you guys have had a good Christmas and keep up the good work. We should meet up soon for a catch up.
Alex


----------



## conor.pharrell (Oct 18, 2006)

Your post was extremely hard on the eyes. Please don't centralise your text like that again. 

In what writing form in that ever acceptable for long paragraphs?


----------



## Jordan (Dec 22, 2008)

conor.pharrell said:


> Your post was extremely hard on the eyes. Please don't centralise your text like that again.
> 
> In what writing form in that ever acceptable for long paragraphs?


it looks nicer


----------



## Martin_HDI (Aug 19, 2010)

The car looks amazing now, Dave and Gordon are spot on :thumb:


----------



## Mark M (Nov 29, 2006)

High quality work guys, and some very worthwhile points.

As some have said, every trade has shoddy workmanship, it's just that people don't have forums to air it on. At least nobody could die from a few swirl marks...

I am disappointed that you raised this thread in The Studio as it does come across as unprofessional in essentially slandering without naming, no matter what you say. Just because one person has done a poor job does not mean that this is the start of the downfall of "detailing".

I can see your frustration as you guys are very passionate, and it is worrying to find cars which have irrecoverable paintwork damage. Without posting a thread like this, you are already restoring the faith of the customers in detailing 

As you know I regard you as some of the best detailers around, so keep up the good work and focus on your own business


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

conor.pharrell said:


> Your post was extremely hard on the eyes. Please don't centralise your text like that again.
> 
> In what writing form in that ever acceptable for long paragraphs?


Wonderfully constructive to the OP


----------



## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

it seems we're being ignored in our request to keep this in topic. so it's getting locked for now.


----------



## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

you can use this thread to continue the debate.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=2544764#post2544764

ok gents i've moved the more valid points from this discussion into the above link and renamed it "polishing fall back". its a little disjointed due to it putting posts in chronological order but you'll get the swing of it i'm sure. you can discuss it there to your hearts content. no more on this thread please.

thanks.


----------



## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

top work as always lads :thumb:


----------



## scooby73 (Mar 20, 2007)

Nice work lads! Enjoyed the write-up and photo's too!:thumb:


----------



## gally (May 25, 2008)

conor.pharrell said:


> Your post was extremely hard on the eyes. Please don't centralise your text like that again.
> 
> In what writing form in that ever acceptable for long paragraphs?


Pmsl @ Telling Gordon how to construct his posts.

Fantastic work as always you 2, the level of effort you guys go to without all the glitz and glamour is commendable.

Looking forward to popping over during the better weather.


----------



## horned yo (Feb 10, 2009)

excellent work


----------



## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

I agree Gally and I actually think that's incredibly rude if I'm honest, since when did people passionate about detailing need an A level in English?
There are many people in this world that are accomplished in Thier field and yet are dyslexic, I think before you post something so offensive again you should think a little.
It's just my opinion but I found that quite insulting.


----------



## DE 1981 (Aug 17, 2007)

gally said:


> Pmsl @ Telling Gordon how to construct his posts.
> 
> Fantastic work as always you 2, the level of effort you guys go to without all the glitz and glamour is commendable.
> 
> Looking forward to popping over during the better weather.


I agree how patrionising and down right rude was that post................

Great work Gordon and lets hope the original detailer picks his game up as he certainly needs to from the discussions you and I had.

Gav


----------



## Mr Face (Jan 22, 2009)

Great work Gordon, big respect, most certainly a pro finish :buffer: :thumb:


----------



## dalecyt (Nov 16, 2010)

good turnaround guys.

Bit like all trades really, everyone has a few cowboys, its just one of those things.

where are you guys anyway?
im just over in cumbernauld.


----------



## B&B Autostyle (Apr 4, 2010)

Great thread and great images. Hadn't spotted this when it was posted at first but well worth the read. True passion for paint finish there.


----------



## horned yo (Feb 10, 2009)

conor.pharrell said:


> Your post was extremely hard on the eyes. Please don't centralise your text like that again.
> 
> In what writing form in that ever acceptable for long paragraphs?


----------



## 3976 (Nov 20, 2006)

Nice to see a decent hand on the job - atrocious work before and the "detailer" should be ashamed of himself.


----------



## 20vKarlos (Aug 8, 2009)

there are still people out there that have no idea how to use a Polishing Machine... this is the problem we have...

plenty of people can buy a van and alot of the 'Cheap Kit' (to save cost) themselves and call themselves *Bobs Detailing* and then the money flows in... there are plenty of cars that need cleaning out there and there are going to be plenty more of these kind of threads in the future, which is a shame as the job only needs to be done once by someone that has the correct equipment and can produce the correct standard!

very good finish this time around though and good to see someone else is getting themself into the detailing addiction (the owner)


----------

