# Long lasting easy to use coating/LSP



## iCraig (Aug 9, 2017)

Hi all,

Time is precious these days with being a parent and we’ve got another on the way in 2020.

The time I have to detail will reduce significantly, so I’m looking for an LSP that lasts at least 6 months, is easy to use and is cheap (I.e. under £45 preferably).

I’m currently thinking Gyeon Cancoat, Tac Systems Moonlight or One Step Master; however, I don’t have a garage so this may impact on what’s available to me.

I’m also thinking of using Gyeon Bathe + for maintenance washes so that I don’t need to use a QD/Spray wax in between, so anything suggested will hopefully be compatible with that.

Thanks,

Craig


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## HEADPHONES (Jan 1, 2008)

Maybe try using one of the many spray type products when drying the car drying aid style.
Sonax BDS
Gtechniq C2V3
Optimum Optiseal 

can all be used this way.
So basically takes up an extra ONE minute if that while drying your car


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## nicks16v (Jan 7, 2009)

Opti seal is good and super easy to apply, I would say the new Turtle wax Hydrophobic sealant wax is easy to use too, but not sure how long this lasts to be fair.


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## Gixxer6 (Apr 5, 2014)

I've found that BH DSW wax lasts a few months (5+ from personal experience) and is easy to apply plus it's cheap too (< £20). Topped up with Sonax BSD after maintenance washes the combination works well.

Fusso might be worth considering too, should last at least 6 months and longer.


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## Lexus-is250 (Feb 4, 2017)

iCraig said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Time is precious these days with being a parent and we've got another on the way in 2020.
> 
> ...


As suggested Tac systems moonlight once a couple of coats are on there should last 6 to 9 months easily. Also consider Wowos crystal sealant. Or spoil yourself and have both. The crystal sealant can be topped up easily on a wet car and is more multi use than moonlight. Bit cheaper as well

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk


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## iCraig (Aug 9, 2017)

Thanks all. 

I should have said I’m not a fan of paste waxes and I prefer spray on or liquid versions.

Are there any out there that break the magic 6 month barrier?


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## vectra (Feb 3, 2008)

First time user of Sonax PNS, Little bit grabby to use but nothing major.
3 weeks on and the beading is awesome, I have topped it up this week with a quick squirt of Sonax BSD. Great gloss as well ans simple to use. These might be worth looking at?
Both available from Eurocarparts and carparts4less.
Watch out for their weekend offers.


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## Lexus-is250 (Feb 4, 2017)

iCraig said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> I should have said I'm not a fan of paste waxes and I prefer spray on or liquid versions.
> 
> Are there any out there that break the magic 6 month barrier?


Yep. Tac systems or Wowos will easily do that.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk


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## BarryAllen (Feb 3, 2017)

What is the obsession with 6 months round these parts?

. Buy one that can be used as a drying aid too...Dodo Juice Future Armour as an example. The protection lasts as long as the next wash....and that isn't going to be much beyond 2 months I bet....even if you have as many kids as the old woman who lived in a shoe.

And as said above....adds little time to the wash process.


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## iCraig (Aug 9, 2017)

BarryAllen said:


> What is the obsession with 6 months round these parts?
> 
> . Buy one that can be used as a drying aid too...Dodo Juice Future Armour as an example. The protection lasts as long as the next wash....and that isn't going to be much beyond 2 months I bet....even if you have as many kids as the old woman who lived in a shoe.
> 
> And as said above....adds little time to the wash process.


You don't have young children do you? A few minutes extra are something you don't have!

There is no obsession here with 6 months, I just want something I can put on my car short of a ceramic coat that I can 'forget' about for at least 6 months.


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## Bulkhead (Oct 17, 2007)

Something that might be worth considering is a decent sealant followed by a quick spray of something like Wet Coat. I'm currently using Fusso Coat as a base and adding a layer of AG Polar Seal via the foam lance every month. Dead easy and ultra quick with very good results.


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## iCraig (Aug 9, 2017)

Bulkhead said:


> Something that might be worth considering is a decent sealant followed by a quick spray of something like Wet Coat. I'm currently using Fusso Coat as a base and adding a layer of AG Polar Seal via the foam lance every month. Dead easy and ultra quick with very good results.


How easy is Fusso? As I'm not a major fan of paste waxes you see.


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## BarryAllen (Feb 3, 2017)

iCraig said:


> You don't have young children do you? A few minutes extra are something you don't have!
> 
> There is no obsession here with 6 months, I just want something I can put on my car short of a ceramic coat that I can 'forget' about for at least 6 months.


My kids are grown up so have the T shirt....

The cars were never left to get in a state. I didn't have the luxury of drying aids. It was wash and wax. It did the job.

And why mention 6 months if of no relevance? Just commenting on what was in the thread.


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## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

BarryAllen said:


> What is the obsession with 6 months round these parts?
> 
> . Buy one that can be used as a drying aid too...Dodo Juice Future Armour as an example. The protection lasts as long as the next wash....and that isn't going to be much beyond 2 months I bet....even if you have as many kids as the old woman who lived in a shoe.
> 
> And as said above....adds little time to the wash process.


I've had 4+ months from DoDo juice future armour, but I don't drive every day


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## Bulkhead (Oct 17, 2007)

iCraig said:


> How easy is Fusso? As I'm not a major fan of paste waxes you see.


Fusso is not too bad - just let it cure properly and it's easy to remove. The advantage is that it provides an extremely durable base that you can top up with the Polar Seal. Having said that, Polar Seal on its own is good.


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## Sparky160 (Aug 12, 2011)

Just applied KKD Si-Stal yesterday. It's a super user friendly 12 month coating. Was pretty nice to use and seems to have added great gloss. Best thing is the price....£17. Bargain if it lives up to even close of it's 12 month claim, which by all reports it does easily.


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## iCraig (Aug 9, 2017)

Sparky160 said:


> Just applied KKD Si-Stal yesterday. It's a super user friendly 12 month coating. Was pretty nice to use and seems to have added great gloss. Best thing is the price....£17. Bargain if it lives up to even close of it's 12 month claim, which by all reports it does easily.


Where did you purchase it from and how do you apply it?


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## iCraig (Aug 9, 2017)

BarryAllen said:


> My kids are grown up so have the T shirt....
> 
> The cars were never left to get in a state. I didn't have the luxury of drying aids. It was wash and wax. It did the job.
> 
> And why mention 6 months if of no relevance? Just commenting on what was in the thread.


Like I said I'd rather have something on it that lasts rather than doing it every wash or 2.

I mentioned at least 6 months as I know some LSPs are 4 months max.


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## Carlos Fandango (Dec 24, 2016)

Just using Sonax BSD on its own gives great results. It may not last six months but it is pretty hardy. I use it on its own as a drying aid and the hydrophobicity afterwards is superb. It takes literally a couple of minutes at most to spray BSD over a wet car then then go over with a drying towel - job done. Sonax BSD is ridiculously cheap at CarParts4less as well.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

I would use something like Meguairs HCW, Turtle wax SnS, or the likes for your protection then. They all should last at least 4 months, and are very easy to apply. Moonlight is a coating but easier to apply, it still needs perfect prep. The spray products don't require perfect prep (although do benefit from it) so you can apply them and still get good durability, without having to worry too much about prep.


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## NorthantsPete (May 18, 2016)

Three options

Detail once a year or every 6 months, and top up with a drying aid that contains polymers

OR

Spray a good polymer detailer on every wash, such as Megs Detailer Xpress wax

OR

Do what I do, Sonax BSD, then Demon shine after every wash (also use NXT shampoo for additoal layer of polymers) - my car was washed last week and still looks amazing today as nothing is sticking to it. Because one of them lasts until my next wash and they help each other, Im beading effortlessly 24/7 365. 
If I have time or I want to give gloss a boost I use SRP undeneath to hide the 'daily' scratches and add further gloss, after a claybar. BSD has glossy cleaners in it too so youre always cleaning the paint with these methods and claybar a lot less as a result, you can do it 1 a year.


My volvo is too big to detail all the time with fancy stuff that lasts a day or two before looking crap. i go bulk, I work fast, or go home.


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## iCraig (Aug 9, 2017)

Sheep said:


> I would use something like Meguairs HCW, Turtle wax SnS, or the likes for your protection then. They all should last at least 4 months, and are very easy to apply. Moonlight is a coating but easier to apply, it still needs perfect prep. The spray products don't require perfect prep (although do benefit from it) so you can apply them and still get good durability, without having to worry too much about prep.


I already use HCW but I didn't realise that durability was that long on it! I've got some Turtle Wax Hybrid Sealant Wax (is this the same as SnS?) which I'm yet to use.


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## iCraig (Aug 9, 2017)

So it turns out I can fit my car in my garage, just! So this opens a few more options.

Are there any easy for a beginner, cheap but good ceramic coatings? Or ceramic style?

Or should I stick with Moonlight or Cancoat?

Thanks,

Craig


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

*TAC One step master*

I prepared my Audi, wash, decontamination, clay bar and polish with Carpro essence. I then applied TAC systems one step master. Both essence and one step master produced significant gloss, were relatively inexpensive and straightforward to use.
HOWEVER, my lovely Audi paintwork colour ice silver is now muted to an uninteresting grey with no silver flake. So be aware that TAC may have introduced a tint into this product range.
I have attempted to post a related query on various stes but each seem to keep being getting taken down. 
Does anyone know if all cermatic coatings / toppers mute paint colour or if it is possible to retain the original. I had previously applied Gyeon rim without issue but the wheels, to an extent now look like they may be off another car!
In desperation I applied one stop master on one to see if I could tone the wheels down to roughly the same colour as the bodywork. The brilliant silver became muted but just looked slightly grubby. 
I may have been lightly spoilt in that I have been using Glare for the last 5 years with the result that the car was almost, but not quite, as reflective and the paintwork was bright.
Appologies if this appears to have hijacked your post. It started out with the intention of being helpful efore it turned into a rant.
Any constructive advice would be useful.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

TheMac said:


> I prepared my Audi, wash, decontamination, clay bar and polish with Carpro essence. I then applied TAC systems one step master. Both essence and one step master produced significant gloss, were relatively inexpensive and straightforward to use.
> HOWEVER, my lovely Audi paintwork colour ice silver is now muted to an uninteresting grey with no silver flake. So be aware that TAC may have introduced a tint into this product range.
> I have attempted to post a related query on various stes but each seem to keep being getting taken down.
> Does anyone know if all cermatic coatings / toppers mute paint colour or if it is possible to retain the original. I had previously applied Gyeon rim without issue but the wheels, to an extent now look like they may be off another car!
> ...


I've recently run a test which mirrors others I've seen in showing that ceramic type products that are designed to darken paint do so, at the expense of some of the tones and metallic flake pop on lighter cars.

To rule out any other factors, how long did the 'muting' of the paint take to happen? Was this quickly after you corrected it, and separately how long between apply OSM over Essence?

Photos may help..


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

TheMac said:


> I prepared my Audi, wash, decontamination, clay bar and polish with Carpro essence. I then applied TAC systems one step master. Both essence and one step master produced significant gloss, were relatively inexpensive and straightforward to use.
> HOWEVER, my lovely Audi paintwork colour ice silver is now muted to an uninteresting grey with no silver flake. So be aware that TAC may have introduced a tint into this product range.
> I have attempted to post a related query on various stes but each seem to keep being getting taken down.
> Does anyone know if all cermatic coatings / toppers mute paint colour or if it is possible to retain the original. I had previously applied Gyeon rim without issue but the wheels, to an extent now look like they may be off another car!
> ...


I know exactly what you mean and is something I mentioned in Atbalfour's excellent test post. The term that is coming into fashion for this effect is 'jetting' and many people find it desirable and it can be on certain colours and finishes. However, it can sap the zing out of others. Part of the side effect of putting a thick/dense (in car protection terms) layer of something over your paint is that it can and most likely will affect the optics as it will not be optically pure, especially when it hardens. The 'graphene' coatings I suspect will be particularly jetting as they are darker to start with.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the 'Zaino' finish, which is typified by a bright, clear, shiny, radiant etc finish. Feynlab ceramics have that kind of finish. It is very 'old school' sealanty in that it is not warm, or deep, or things that detract from the flake pop - exactly what I have always liked.

To the OP, there are lots of 6 month products. The easiest would be Sonax PNS, topped with BSD every 2nd wash, if you wash fortnightly. Another easy one would be Wowo's Crystal Sealant - wipe on, wipe straight off.

Of the coatings, I would opt for CarPro CQuartz Lite - I think it is in a sweet spot. You get a lot, so go to town with it (though it will harden eventually so use it up), it is really easy to use (but you do need to prep properly, like with any decent coating or coating lite product) and will last longer and perform for longer than CanCoat/Moonlight or the other Coating Lite's with perhaps the exception of Feynlab Ceramic Lite which costs lots more and you get less of.


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

Apologies for the delay in replying. This is now my third attempt. Whether there is a time frame on this site, or not, each time I have gone to post the site informs me that I am not (no longer) signed in. As soon as I re sign in I lose the post! I am now into the third hour of this so I am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping to cut and paste this from my laptop.
Firstly to say many thanks for the above posts. I had previously attempted to illicit a response from Apex Detail, in2Detailing, Pan the organiser and forensic detailing re this problem but all without success. Your replies are very much appreciated. 
The car was detailed in my garage and as a consequence it is difficult to know at exactly what stage the Audi’s paintwork became muted. In terms of time scale it had certainly happened after applying the one step master which was used almost immediately after polishing with essence (with a 12 hours gap). Out of desperation and to tone the wheels down to the car’s paintwork colour I applied the one step to one of the previously Gyeon coated wheels. The result was that the previously bright silver turned to just looking grubby.
Your post provides some great information re possible alternative coatings. I think that what I am now looking for is an extremely glossy, clear ceramic coat which will not mute the paint and which I can remove from the car relatively easily if the need arises (which is what I thought I was purchasing in the first place!). I am almost at the stage of being willing to buy anything regardless of cost to correct this problem as at seventy years of age am slightly embarrassed in front of my family and friends to find myself in this position.
It strikes me that jetting is a potentially significant issue for people with light coloured vehicles. It is difficult to believe that the review experts, if they were doing their job at all, shouldn’t have been aware of this problem and not have had a duty of care to inform potential purchasers.
Many thanks again for the posts. If any, I should welcome your further thoughts on the nature of the coating to use in replacement.
May I ask for a tag related to Atbalfour’s post re product testing for my information. 
Has anyone determined which products, both short and long term, are prone to jetting and which not?
Best wishes – a very grateful Mac


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## SuperchargedLlama (Apr 25, 2008)

Another vote for optimum opti-seal. I've only just started using it as a drying aid after having it for years and I'm super impressed, it is really easy to apply. I wouldn't say it'll give you 6 months but it's so easy to do that I don't find that it matters. It isn't great when applying in the cold but if you get a few layers on now during the washes over september/october it'll see you through the winter right enough.


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## nicks16v (Jan 7, 2009)

Gyeon Can Coat not an option ?


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## Autoglym (Apr 10, 2008)

iCraig said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> I should have said I'm not a fan of paste waxes and I prefer spray on or liquid versions.
> 
> Are there any out there that break the magic 6 month barrier?





iCraig said:


> You don't have young children do you? A few minutes extra are something you don't have!
> 
> There is no obsession here with 6 months, I just want something I can put on my car short of a ceramic coat that I can 'forget' about for at least 6 months.


I know where you are coming from time wise! I would have suggested UHD Wax, but as you don't like paste waxes, how about Extra Gloss Protection? Gets you to the 4-6 months and easier on the wallet too.

Or another option, how about a monthly application of Polar Seal? Beads and beads, and lasts a long time too. Takes minutes to apply so will not extend your wash session by much at all. In fact, added all together, will be save you time overall vs 6 month application of a coating.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

TheMac said:


> Apologies for the delay in replying. This is now my third attempt. Whether there is a time frame on this site, or not, each time I have gone to post the site informs me that I am not (no longer) signed in. As soon as I re sign in I lose the post! I am now into the third hour of this so I am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping to cut and paste this from my laptop.
> Firstly to say many thanks for the above posts. I had previously attempted to illicit a response from Apex Detail, in2Detailing, Pan the organiser and forensic detailing re this problem but all without success. Your replies are very much appreciated.
> The car was detailed in my garage and as a consequence it is difficult to know at exactly what stage the Audi's paintwork became muted. In terms of time scale it had certainly happened after applying the one step master which was used almost immediately after polishing with essence (with a 12 hours gap). Out of desperation and to tone the wheels down to the car's paintwork colour I applied the one step to one of the previously Gyeon coated wheels. The result was that the previously bright silver turned to just looking grubby.
> Your post provides some great information re possible alternative coatings. I think that what I am now looking for is an extremely glossy, clear ceramic coat which will not mute the paint and which I can remove from the car relatively easily if the need arises (which is what I thought I was purchasing in the first place!). I am almost at the stage of being willing to buy anything regardless of cost to correct this problem as at seventy years of age am slightly embarrassed in front of my family and friends to find myself in this position.
> ...


This is Atbalfour's thread-
https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=422690
You can see very clearly the darkening/jetting effect of the Cancoat on the photos/videos. For this reason, I would obviously avoid Cancoat. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to physically try a lot of different brands of coatings and I have a black car, which is the coated car which doesn't help with that. A friend runs a detailing business and through that I am able to see Feynlab products (mainly) installed as he is an accredited installer, but I have also experienced GTechniq C1, CSL, Cancoat and CQuartz UK 3.0.

Your typical ceramic coatings (2-3 year ones) aren't that easy to remove, but will come off with a finishing polish. The 1 (ish) year products also will, especially if they are recently applied.

Atbalfour may be able to advise better, but Polish Angel have a range of products that excel at accentuating the fleck and gloss, using ingredients such as Titania.

It may just take a lot of research (maybe insomnia may help!) and watching Youtube videos such as this one 



Sandro in particular shows very well how different products darken paint or fill swirls. If it fills swirls, then it will very likely darken paint. His Myabi vs Nova coating test shows this very well. Have a look at these and see what you think.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

I must be honest I have seen products 'darken' before and these naturally do not further accentuate the definition of metallic flakes but I wouldn't go as far as saying that they take away from them to leave a muted finish as you describe it (very difficult to relate to without photos, or before and afters). Even on the metallic silver test panel I am using with a product that darkens like Cancoat, the overall look has by no means diminished, there's no less clarity and it still looks great.. I'll try to update that post with photos to show this better.

I am nothing more than an enthusiast so I cannot rule out that another step in your process has not caused the flatness on your car, though ironically Dave50 on here found One Step Master to be one of the best darkening and filling products but not so good on a highly refined surface. I don't think it's a coincidence that you've found the same... to further confuse matters, that same product achieved a gloss meter reading of over 100 on Apex Detail's channel (albeit on a black car)

There are lots of optically clear products that do not fill and do not darken the paint to any significant degree - I mention Polish Angel Cosmic Spritz because I and Dave50 have separately applied it to paints of varying condition and colour and while improving the overall look of the paint it did not mask swirls or darken significantly - as roscopervis mentions, the added Titania within is making the surface even more reflective - Youtubers scientifically measuring gloss using a gloss meter record this as one of the highest performers. Also helps that it's a brilliant all round product super easily applied with no curing time and some of the best beading you'll see.

To caveat though, this is not the only product that will work on your paint... the only reason I mention is that I know it works and will do what you are asking for a product to do... and sadly I have found it way way too early in my detailing life (and already looking for something that'll do 90% of the same job for less - £46 for 250ml is just so expensive when you think about it, even though a little goes a long way and if you avoid alkaline snow foams it'll last months.


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## nicks16v (Jan 7, 2009)

Agree with the above, I love the idea of Cosmic Spritz and I am sure it will look amazing, but its just so damn expensive. How did you find Titan Ultra in comparison - eye ball test ? Mind you thats not that much cheaper than the cosmic Spritz either. I'm still to find that elusive product thats easy to apply (Quick detailer easy), super slick, super glossy, great protection, super hydrophobic, self cleans and isn't expensive.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

nicks16v said:


> Agree with the above, I love the idea of Cosmic Spritz and I am sure it will look amazing, but its just so damn expensive. How did you find Titan Ultra in comparison - eye ball test ? Mind you thats not that much cheaper than the cosmic Spritz either. I'm still to find that elusive product thats easy to apply (Quick detailer easy), super slick, super glossy, great protection, super hydrophobic, self cleans and isn't expensive.


Titan Ultra is stacking up really well so far. It offers a nice jump in gloss (haven't seen it been tested with a gloss meter mind you) and perhaps I'll be able to compare it directly to CS when applying it to my own paint which I know pretty well by now as opposed to a light coloured test panel I don't.

Titan Ultra is noticeably slicker, beads well but not quite as well as CS, likewise it's easily applied and removed but a jump behind CS in that regard like most products will be. I expect Ultra to be more chemical resistant and last longer though.. time will tell.


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## Dave50 (Mar 14, 2013)

Here's the thread Adam was talking about https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=417979&page=2

I will re-read this thread when I have properly woke up, just got up off 12hr nights and I'm not in a good place.

Dave


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

Thanks again for the replies. This post is by means of a holding reply while I do a bit of research. From what I have read both above and on the net at present, I am very attracted to Polish Angel. Many thanks in the meantime.


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

Since my last post I have spent approximately twenty-five hours detailing my son’s metallic grey Mazda MX5. I washed, decontaminated, clay barred, corrected with M205 on microfiber cutting discs, machined with Carpro Essence and topped with TAC one Step Master.
If anyone is interested these are my thoughts on Essence. It has virtually no cutting ability even with microfiber pads. Its extremely quick to use and as few as 1 to 2 passes is often enough. As I figured its cutting ability was almost non existent and therefore unlikely to damage the paint I applied a fair amount of pressure to the machine and the gloss was outstanding. It is an amazing product. Nevertheless, a point of note is that it seems to be anSio2 coating in its own right with expected longevity of approximately 9 months to a year but apparently providing little beading or cleaning ability (so I have read) and therefore requiring a topper. The significance of this became apparent whenever I discovered some light product spray on the driver’s side window which had already dried. In order to remove it I resorted to machining it with M205 and M105 with a microfiber cutting for a total of about 20 minutes or so and while the particles diminished a bit in the end I had to give up. I would not like to have to remove this coating from paintwork or a front windscreen.
Next the topper. I again used One Step Master. Its an amazing product for people with darker coloured cars. It certainly darkened the paintwork on the MX5 but did provide a lovely glossy finish and filled in, or at least hid scuffs, and small scratches on the Mazda’s fibreglass bumper which I had been too frightened to continue to chase. No complaints from me this time!
Nevertheless, regardless of the above I would never use it again on the Audi whose paint at first sight appears almost flawless but in certain lights you could be forgiven for thinking it a shade of white rather than silver. 
Having been busy since last Friday I haven’t had much time to undertake further research but from your advice, and what little I have since read, I am very attracted to correcting the paintwork with M205, using Essence and probably topping with Cosmic Spritz as this combination seems to me like a great bet.
With your prior knowledge perhaps you could tell me whether Spritz is likely to last 4 to 6 months and retain its appearance throughout that period. If so, for me, it may be reasonable or even good value for money or alternatively is there a tendency for the product to crystallise in its container over time in which case unless I was going wild with its use it would be prohibitively expensive.
Many thanks in anticipation of your replies and thanks for all the pointers to date. I have found your posts invaluable.
Best wishes to both
TheMac


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

TheMac said:


> Since my last post I have spent approximately twenty-five hours detailing my son's metallic grey Mazda MX5. I washed, decontaminated, clay barred, corrected with M205 on microfiber cutting discs, machined with Carpro Essence and topped with TAC one Step Master.
> If anyone is interested these are my thoughts on Essence. It has virtually no cutting ability even with microfiber pads. Its extremely quick to use and as few as 1 to 2 passes is often enough. As I figured its cutting ability was almost non existent and therefore unlikely to damage the paint I applied a fair amount of pressure to the machine and the gloss was outstanding. It is an amazing product. Nevertheless, a point of note is that it seems to be anSio2 coating in its own right with expected longevity of approximately 9 months to a year but apparently providing little beading or cleaning ability (so I have read) and therefore requiring a topper. The significance of this became apparent whenever I discovered some light product spray on the driver's side window which had already dried. In order to remove it I resorted to machining it with M205 and M105 with a microfiber cutting for a total of about 20 minutes or so and while the particles diminished a bit in the end I had to give up. I would not like to have to remove this coating from paintwork or a front windscreen.
> Next the topper. I again used One Step Master. Its an amazing product for people with darker coloured cars. It certainly darkened the paintwork on the MX5 but did provide a lovely glossy finish and filled in, or at least hid scuffs, and small scratches on the Mazda's fibreglass bumper which I had been too frightened to continue to chase. No complaints from me this time!
> Nevertheless, regardless of the above I would never use it again on the Audi whose paint at first sight appears almost flawless but in certain lights you could be forgiven for thinking it a shade of white rather than silver.
> ...


Hi - great to hear you've had better luck with OSM this time around - albeit on different paint.

Regarding Cosmic Spritz, you'll have no issues with the product crystallising in the bottle, the shelf life is upwards of 2 years, also helped by the fact that buying from PA direct normally means you get a product made to order (i.e. not gathering dust in a warehouse somewhere).

Once applied, the durability you will achieve is subject to so many factors.. it depends how much the car is used, environmental contamination on the move and where you live/park and the strength of products used to wash it. You should easily get a couple of months of it's very best hydrophobic performance provided you avoid any really harsh cleaners, snow foams or TFRs. These will knock back the beading if used regularly (as they will most products to be fair) but despite this there is without doubt a footprint of product still there going by the speed of sheeting and continued sharp reflections.

It's the sort of product that as well as using on dry, IPA'd paint, you could apply 10 minutes before a rain shower without any detriment, use as a drying aid or on any part of the paint, glass or plastic guaranteed no streaks.

You mention about wanting to be economical with it to extract good value. Value is very subjective - PA products are universally liked by those who have used them but there are very contrasting opinions on whether they represent good value. For example the master detailer who trained me loves PA but thinks they are 20-30% too expensive and that there are more durable products in spray format available for less.

Polish Angel aren't really about value, their consumers are normally enthusiasts who don't like compromise and are willing to pay for it - they make their money because generally that type of customer catches the bug and uses more and more given it's mindlessly easy application... I would pretty much guarantee that you won't be left with unused product on the shelf a year later, it becomes incredibly addictive.

If you do go ahead and get some please let me know how you get on and if you need any help post here or drop me a PM.


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

Atbalfour
Thanks for the reply. I am very pleased re the longevity of PA. Time scale for application will probably be in the new year by which time some of the OSM should have worn off.
We live in Belfast Northern Ireland and it seems we have been on virtual lockdown for most of the last 6 months. With no opportunity for expensive continental holidays we have saved a fortune so a bottle or 2 of PA shouldn't go amiss as long as I don't highlight the fact to my wife.
Many thanks again I will post again in the new year.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

TheMac said:


> Atbalfour
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I am very pleased re the longevity of PA. Time scale for application will probably be in the new year by which time some of the OSM should have worn off.
> 
> ...


I live just outside Belfast myself so if you want to try Cosmic before you buy let me know


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## 4Wheels&Engine (Jun 11, 2020)

@TheMac - Regarding contacting Imran at in2detailing - I've never tried to ring, but I have emailed. He's a busy guy and gets lots of emails, I believe, so sometimes I've had to resend an email, but no matter how many questions I asked about TAC System products, and others, he answered every one very helpfully and thoroughly.

I usually send an email, then if I haven't had a reply after a few working days, politely resend until I get an answer. So perseverance pays off, I've found.


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

*Reply from in2detailing*



4Wheels&Engine said:


> @TheMac - Regarding contacting Imran at in2detailing - I've never tried to ring, but I have emailed. He's a busy guy and gets lots of emails, I believe, so sometimes I've had to resend an email, but no matter how many questions I asked about TAC System products, and others, he answered every one very helpfully and thoroughly.
> 
> I usually send an email, then if I haven't had a reply after a few working days, politely resend until I get an answer. So perseverance pays off, I've found.


Thanks for the information. From what I had read about him I was suprised when I didn't receive a reply. 
I am content with what I have learnt in the meantime re the darkening affect of One Step Master and definitely wouldn't consider using it again on my Audi I will keep your advice in mind if I come accross any other difficulties.


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

Atbalfour
Just read your post. Thanks for the offer. Its a small world. Where abouts are you located? While I am not yet in a position to use PA I would always be interested in your input.
TheMac


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

Update
After 3 washes the paintwork tint appears to have lightened a bit. The silver wheels don't seem to be screaming at the paintwork as much. I imported a complete range of Xpert polishes approximately 6 years ago and apart from them having virtually no cutting ability with my DA they all gave tne paintwork a very unattractive blue tint. Having just started detailing and spending approx £170 I couldn't bring myself to use any of them!
That background hasn't helped with this detail. 
My thoughts at present are to leave the existing coating on until after the winter and then to use Polish Angel compound, PA finish, carpro essence and then coat with Cosmic spritz on a bi monthly basis if it proves necessary. I am assuming that a 0.5l bottle should last a couple of years at that rate.
Not to be too anal but I have read that high gloss darkens the paint. Does anyone know if spritz does the same?


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

TheMac said:


> Update
> After 3 washes the paintwork tint appears to have lightened a bit. The silver wheels don't seem to be screaming at the paintwork as much. I imported a complete range of Xpert polishes approximately 6 years ago and apart from them having virtually no cutting ability with my DA they all gave tne paintwork a very unattractive blue tint. Having just started detailing and spending approx £170 I couldn't bring myself to use any of them!
> That background hasn't helped with this detail.
> My thoughts at present are to leave the existing coating on until after the winter and then to use Polish Angel compound, PA finish, carpro essence and then coat with Cosmic spritz on a bi monthly basis if it proves necessary. I am assuming that a 0.5l bottle should last a couple of years at that rate.
> Not to be too anal but I have read that high gloss darkens the paint. Does anyone know if spritz does the same?


High gloss nor Cosmic Spritz darken the paint to any noticeable degree, nothing like OSM anyhow! People throw these superlatives around a lot and generally it's harmless, people not having a clue or seeing the things they want to see .. really you can only actually gauge darkening ability by doing side-by-sides, something you don't typically do when applying LSPs. Before anything goes on my paint nowadays it goes onto a test panel as I'd hate for something to compromise the finish that's taken time and money!

I'm sure Dave won't mind me sharing the attached photo from a test he had run earlier this year in which he had deliberately sanded to test product filling and darkening ability. Results will always be exaggerated on sanded, scuffed paint rather than highly refined surfaces where the gains are smaller. Overcoat includes filling and darkening ability in it's marketing blurb and like most things Kamikaze sell it does exactly that. I am no expert but in my experience darkening can mask clarity, something that is only important where you want to get the most from the metallic flakes on the car. Someone can correct me if they have found otherwise.


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

atbalfour
Thanks for the post. The photographic detail is slightly challenging to make out. I am not sure that Overcoat would be an ideal choice if you wanted to retain the brightness of light silver paintwork!
Have you used PA Master polish compound and / or PA fimal master polish11? If so did you find them good?
Mac


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

TheMac said:


> atbalfour
> Thanks for the post. The photographic detail is slightly challenging to make out. I am not sure that Overcoat would be an ideal choice if you wanted to retain the brightness of light silver paintwork!
> Have you used PA Master polish compound and / or PA fimal master polish11? If so did you find them good?
> Mac


Have never used PA polishes but Master Compound was highly regarded and some considered it a better all round polish than Scholl S20 Black (which I use and love). Sandro on Car Craft Auto Detailing posted a brilliant review of it a few years back but it's talked about far less now.


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

atbalfour 
Thanks for the reply. I had already seen Sandro's video on that. Watched a youtube video today where he suggests that the last cut compounding glaze might have the edge on PA Master compound while working on an Audi
I used think that M101 was almost godlike in its correcting ability. Is it considered to be old hat now?


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

TheMac said:


> atbalfour
> Thanks for the reply. I had already seen Sandro's video on that. Watched a youtube video today where he suggests that the last cut compounding glaze might have the edge on PA Master compound while working on an Audi
> I used think that M101 was almost godlike in its correcting ability. Is it considered to be old hat now?


Wouldn't even consider M101 now I have found abrasives that work better for me and finish down well from Scholl, combined with their excellent Spider pads.

Still know loads of people who swear by M101 and just shows it's personal preference.


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

*Paint depth guage*



atbalfour said:


> Wouldn't even consider M101 now I have found abrasives that work better for me and finish down well from Scholl, combined with their excellent Spider pads.
> 
> Still know loads of people who swear by M101 and just shows it's personal preference.


Thanks for that. I have an additional unopened litre of the stuff from back in the day and unless the finish is likely to be significantly better I am temped to give it a go at some stage. (Since posting I have just finished watching a video of someone using it). Whether it should be followed up with m205 and essence if I do use it is, for me, an unknown at present.
Finally a paint depth guage might not go amiss as I have compounded the car a couple of times over the years and don't want to go through the paint. Any suggestions will be gratefully received.
Apologises for all the questions but you have proved to be an invaluable source of information to date.


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

Update 
I have just ordered a bottle of Last Cut compounding glaze and intend to order a set of Lake Country microfibre cutting pads. This combination together with the Neoteck paint depth gauge should provide an opportunity to help flatten any orange peel on the Audi's paintwork and refine it to a more glass like reflection.
Since atbalfour's post I am now on PA's email list for discounts. There was 10% off last weekend but I intend to wait until Christmas / new year to order a fresh 0.5 litre bottle of spritz, Master finishing polish and perhaps a red Shine Mate polishing pad. A combination of those should attract a £20 discount including postage but my intentions are still fairly fluid.
If anyone has any further input on the above I should be most grateful. Many thanks for all the input to date. I had gone back a page on this site in order to obtain each of your names in order to mention you in turn but lost my last post so please excuse me for not referring to you by name.
TheMac


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

Gloss
I have just noticed that the Apex Detail video dated 28 May 2019 showed the gloss provided by Polish Angel High Gloss was in the range of 91 to 92 gloss units but that achieved by TAC Systems One Step Master was between 99 to 102 gloss units as per a further video from Apex Ďetail of 27 December of the same year. I recognise that this may not be a direct comparison.
Does anyone know what gloss readings essence attracts? 
I have both essence and One Step Master combined on my car's paintwork at present and must say that the gloss flashes alot although, as stated above, I am not sold on the paintwork tint.
Not to look a gift horse in the mouth but is the combination of essence and cosmic spritz in terms of gloss likely to be compromised in direçt comparison to using essence with One Step Master?
I am just about to invest another couple of hundred or so pounds into this exercise re cutting and finishing pads, compound, S30+, paint depth gauge, cosmic spritz etc which is prompting me to pursue an active interest re this topic at present.
Interested in any insights.
Thanks in anticipation 
TheMac


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

Update
I undertook a detail of the Audi as planed above. Unbelievable. I couldn't be happier. Three months has passed and the car still looks flawless. 
Cosmic Spritz seems just as good as when applied 3 months ago and for its longevity and the amount used seems incredibly good value.
Many thanks to all especially Atbalfour for the advice.
I am extremely happy.


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

*Further update*

Every time I wash the car it looks like I have just polished it!


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Great result, glad it all worked out


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