# Are Cheap Winter Tyres Better Than Expensive Summer Tyres?



## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Hi All.

I've been given a couple of Starfire RS-W3.0 for nothing and although it's a bit late for this winter it's probably a good time to buy for the next one. Is it worth me buying another two so I have a set (wouldn't put just two on) or will I be better keeping my Michelin PS3s?

The Michelins are £125 and the Starfires are £57.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

For me best summer tyre's as always take more care in winter encase of ice and i do more miles in summer


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Id say get another 2 winter's. I've used some expensive winter tyres this year and am very impressed. Cheap winter tyres will be rated at like -10 or whatever, summer tyres are usually rated down to 7 or so and after that the rubber begins to act differently


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

I'd say cheap winter tyres are better in winter than expensive summer tyres.

As Hoikey said, they'll be rated for the correct temperatures as the rubber in summer tyres hardens significantly below 7 degrees, reducing grip in any conditions.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

So the guy from Aberdeenshire says good summer tyres are best... the guy from Cheshire says winter along with Hoikey (not sure where he's from). I don't think the responses could have been any more different to what I expected. :lol:

I think for just over £100 it's probably best to see how I get on with winter tyres. I might even go for 2 mid-range winter tyres to match the 2 cheap ones I've currently got.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Maybe we are so used to the snow and bad weather we know how to handle it so prefer to have more fun on the few days of sun we have:thumb:


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Nanoman said:


> So the guy from Aberdeenshire says good summer tyres are best... the guy from Cheshire says winter along with Hoikey (not sure where he's from). I don't think the responses could have been any more different to what I expected. :lol:
> 
> I think for just over £100 it's probably best to see how I get on with winter tyres. I might even go for 2 mid-range winter tyres to match the 2 cheap ones I've currently got.


stoke lol


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

Of course cheap winter tyres are going to be better on ice and snow than expensive summer tyres. They are made to work under very different conditions, and what makes a good summer tyre typically makes it a crap snow/ice tyre.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

How much tread does a winter tyre come with and how low does it go before it become ineffective? Any ideas?


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

mine had around 8mm and it doesn't look like they've used much at all this winter


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I use 'summer' tyres all year, never actually understood when this hype of summer/winter tyres came out... I've been driving for many years, never had the need or urge to buy 'winter' tyres...

it's all BS as far as I am concerned... 

:thumb:


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

The Cueball said:


> I use 'summer' tyres all year, never actually understood when this hype of summer/winter tyres came out... I've been driving for many years, never had the need or urge to buy 'winter' tyres...
> 
> it's all BS as far as I am concerned...
> 
> :thumb:


It sounds like you probably don't live at the top of a steep hill that doesn't get gritted (and you take the jeep instead of the Jag/RX when it's bad).


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Nanoman said:


> It sounds like you probably don't live at the top of a steep hill that doesn't get gritted (and you take the jeep instead of the Jag/RX when it's bad).


no, it's because I can drive :wave::wave:

I wasn't born with a jag and jeep you know.... 

and I don't have an RX either! :lol: keep up, it's has been changed for a S8

:thumb:


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

The Cueball said:


> no, it's because I can drive :wave::wave:
> 
> I wasn't born with a jag and jeep you know....
> 
> ...


I'll invite you round to mine next time we've had a few inches of snow. If you can make it into the drive with 2 wheel drive car on summer tyres I'll give you a medal!

To be honest it's for the wifes car not mine. She's been stuck before and I'd rather that didn't happen again. I managed to get from Erskine to Houston along the backroads in a Lexus on summer tyres when we had the very bad spell a couple of winters ago.

It'll also give better traction to help avoid the idiots that can't drive in the bad weather.


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## id_doug (Apr 6, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> I use 'summer' tyres all year, never actually understood when this hype of summer/winter tyres came out... I've been driving for many years, never had the need or urge to buy 'winter' tyres...
> 
> it's all BS as far as I am concerned...
> 
> :thumb:


You want to try and drive out my estate with the slightest incline and a very slight off camber corner with 8x18 summer tyres on.... then again with winter tyres on. The difference is remarkable. Even on ice the difference is very notable indeed.

Admittedly, it's a lot to do with the car and wheels. My wife has an almost identical car with smaller wheels on and that's very different indeed. Summer tyres all year round no problem. Mine on the other hand is a different kettle of fish.

In answer to the OP. Four cheap winter tyres will be better in winter than four good summer tyres. The other good point is for about 3 or so months your not wearing out your expensive tyres :thumb:


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## President Swirl (Oct 23, 2011)

Get the best winter tyres you can afford mate. You can't put a price on staying out of a hedge, or worse.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

what I mean is, I don't get this summer/winter tyre BS... I have tyres... they are not for summer only use... very simple...

I disagree that tyres will help you avoid any idiot either.... which is why I would rather have a f***ed up old jeep to drive about in, rather than my P&J with 'voodoo' rubber on it... 

each to their own, if you believe the hype and it's better to have them, good luck with it... I don't and think it's a con...

I have drove my cars with the same tyres on deep snow and summer sun... never once had any issues... even in the depth of winter skiing up north...

I don't buy into it.... and FYI I live in the bottom of a valley, and have very wide 20 inch wheels...I can drive fine... so no need for all the 'challenges'  :wall: :lol:

:thumb:


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

Try driving a MkII MR2 in six inches of snow on 255 summer tyres :lol:


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

President Swirl said:


> Get the best winter tyres you can afford mate. You can't put a price on staying out of a hedge, or worse.


Currently the closest thing to winter tyres I can afford is Autosocks which are in the boot of both cars. I have been planning on getting winter tyres for next winter if I can save up the cash however getting these two free means I can definately do it for this coming winter.


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## Aucky (Oct 3, 2008)

In my opinion, yes. The tyre compound plays such a big part in the performance of winter tyres that summer/all year roudn tyres just can't match. 

99% of the driving heroes who simply ''drive to the conditions'' have not tried winter tyres in harsh conditions.


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## Wilco (Apr 22, 2010)

I wouldn't want to be driving on Michelins in winter anyway. Found both ps2s and ps3 to be terrible when it gets cold. When its warm though? Best tyres i'v ever had.

So if you can afford to get a cheap set of winter tyres do so mate is my advice


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## NeilG40 (Jan 1, 2009)

It always amuses me people doubting the benefits of winter tyres when generally in motorsport tyres are considered to be the most important thing.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Aucky said:


> In my opinion, yes. The tyre compound plays such a big part in the performance of winter tyres that summer/all year roudn tyres just can't match.
> 
> 99% of the driving heroes who simply ''drive to the conditions'' have not tried winter tyres in harsh conditions.


If you can "drive to the conditions" though why bother with winter tyres? I've never seen the need for them, saying that we don't generally get a lot of snow, if we do it means the rest of the country is really bad.


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## davidcraggs (Aug 1, 2007)

Nanoman - winter tyres come with 8mm and have additional wear indicators at 4mm which is the point where they are recommended you replace them.

I've been using them since 2005 but have never worn a set down below 4mm, however the general consensus is that even at this depth they're still more effective than summer tyres.


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

i thought winter tyres were a con as well until my boxster got stuck in about 5mm of snow.

the problem is with a lot of performance cars they design them to run on two different sets - the porsche standard tyres are all but slicks so useless in snow.

'normal' cars usually have thinner wheels and are fine in snow. best winter car i have is the toyota aygo. thinner than bicycle tyres.

so it isn't a simple answer anymore. depends on the car as much as the driver.


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

The Cueball said:


> what I mean is, I don't get this summer/winter tyre BS... I have tyres... they are not for summer only use... very simple...


Do you get the point of cheap/expensive or normal/ultra high speed tires? If so its exactly the same logic. The rubber is better designed for the job.

Winter tires are designed to give much more traction in colder temps. Which is why when it gets above 7/8 degrees they are worse than 'normal' tyres as its outside of the temps they are designed for - in the same way F1 tires don't work in the cold because they are not designed to


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## hibberd (Jul 5, 2006)

The Cueball said:


> I use 'summer' tyres all year, never actually understood when this hype of summer/winter tyres came out... I've been driving for many years, never had the need or urge to buy 'winter' tyres...
> 
> it's all BS as far as I am concerned...
> 
> :thumb:


What a silly comment to make..the web is full of side by sides over summer and winter tyres..Winter Tyres are NOT BS. but its amazing how people who have never used winter tyres advise other not to. Whilst all the people with experience of using winter tyres advise people to use them. Ever asked yourself WHY or is that too hard a question to get your brain around? Ever wondered why they are compulsary in most country? Ever wonderd why in lot of countries your insurance company gives you grief if you have an accident without them on?


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Never felt the need to buy into winter tyres, only had 1, maybe 2 days this winter where its been an issue, thats in a low rwd sports car on summer tyres, it seems like alot of expense when just adjusting driving style and driving properly has just as much effect on how the car behaves


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

Derekh929 said:


> Maybe we are so used to the snow and bad weather we know how to handle it so prefer to have more fun on the few days of sun we have:thumb:


Snow pfft, I didn't get stuck once this winter and I have 13" wheels and absolute budget tyres!


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## id_doug (Apr 6, 2011)

alan_mcc said:


> Snow pfft, I didn't get stuck once this winter and I have 13" wheels and absolute budget tyres!


The fact you have 13" wheels are probably part of the reason why you haven't got stuck. Narrow small diameter wheels are better than wide large diameter wheels.


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

id_doug said:


> The fact you have 13" wheels are probably part of the reason why you haven't got stuck. Narrow small diameter wheels are better than wide large diameter wheels.


fair enough..

so everyone should just buy a set of 13's :lol:

I think common sense also plays a big part of why I didn't get stuck.


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

msb said:


> Never felt the need to buy into winter tyres, only had 1, maybe 2 days this winter where its been an issue, thats in a low rwd sports car on summer tyres, it seems like alot of expense when just adjusting driving style and driving properly has just as much effect on how the car behaves


It's not just about snow. The compound works better at lower temperatures. My car got stuck parked. Just couldn't get traction at all. Nothing to do with driving properly....I can do that just fine. It is expensive but at least the car can be used. I was pretty annoyed with it when I found out about the tyre set up. I think if manufacturers develop tyres like that you should get two sets up front.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

should_do_more said:


> It's not just about snow. The compound works better at lower temperatures. My car got stuck parked. Just couldn't get traction at all. Nothing to do with driving properly....I can do that just fine. It is expensive but at least the car can be used. I was pretty annoyed with it when I found out about the tyre set up. I think if manufacturers develop tyres like that you should get two sets up front.


Not saying you are wrong just don't feel the need for it and can't also warrant the cost of another set of wheels and tyres that i've also got to store for 8/9months of the year


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Rob_Quads said:


> Do you get the point of cheap/expensive or normal/ultra high speed tires? If so its exactly the same logic. The rubber is better designed for the job.
> 
> Winter tires are designed to give much more traction in colder temps. Which is why when it gets above 7/8 degrees they are worse than 'normal' tyres as its outside of the temps they are designed for - in the same way F1 tires don't work in the cold because they are not designed to


each to their own, I don't agree that you need them... simple as that, if it makes you feel better, or safer, great.... I'm happy for you...

:thumb:



hibberd said:


> What a silly comment to make..the web is full of side by sides over summer and winter tyres..Winter Tyres are NOT BS. but its amazing how people who have never used winter tyres advise other not to. Whilst all the people with experience of using winter tyres advise people to use them. Ever asked yourself WHY or is that too hard a question to get your brain around? Ever wondered why they are compulsary in most country? Ever wonderd why in lot of countries your insurance company gives you grief if you have an accident without them on?


It not a silly comment, just because you disagree doesn't make my point of view any less than yours... the web is full of BS as well you know, so I don't really care that the are 'side by sides' of the tyres.... 

I have not said I have never used them, I said I do not use them, as I do not see the need for them...so stop making stories up, I have used them plenty of times...

Don't try and be a smart ar$e with me.... my brain works well enough, and I can think and judge things for myself...

:thumb:


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> each to their own, I don't agree that you need them... simple as that, if it makes you feel better, or safer, great.... I'm happy for you...
> 
> :thumb:


Are you happy for me too ? lol


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## EliteCarCare (Aug 25, 2006)

The Cueball said:


> I use 'summer' tyres all year, never actually understood when this hype of summer/winter tyres came out... I've been driving for many years, never had the need or urge to buy 'winter' tyres...
> 
> it's all BS as far as I am concerned...
> 
> :thumb:


Try them out on a 2wd vehicle in severe weather and you'll soon realise it's not BS! 

Alex


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Winter tyres do make a huge difference in cold and even more so in snow - FACT (imho), the argument on whether you NEED them is of course different, anyone's need is subjective, some people NEED and iphone...(not sure what they would do if they were not invented, but apparently they need one!), some people wash their cars with fairly liquid, some NEED dedicated car shampoo etc. Or closer to the subject some people put on teh cheapest tyres they can find...others NEED to put on the most expensive they can afford.

Anyway, it tends to be people that have never used them that say they're a waste of time/money. My car is AWD and i don't have a problem with getting stuck as I can get moving on summer tyres no problem, but stopping, turning etc can be done with a lot more confidence with tyres manufactured with the snowy conditions in mind. I have a set of winter wheels and tyres..........having said all that.....I never put them on this winter as it hardly threatened to get cold, never mind snow! :lol:

One other consideration, if you're running cheap £57 tyres in winter; you're saving wear on your expensive summer tyres for when you get the benefit of them.



alan_mcc said:


> fair enough..
> 
> so everyone should just buy a set of 13's :lol:
> 
> I think common sense also plays a big part of why I didn't get stuck.


Might be a problem, my brake disks are bigger than that!


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

What did we do before all these "winter tyres"...

Bull Shi* if you ask me, I'm with Cueball.... not literally..


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

EliteCarCare said:


> Try them out on a 2wd vehicle in severe weather and you'll soon realise it's not BS!
> 
> Alex


I understand your point but what if you've never felt/seen the need for them? I've never been stuck in adverse weather in anything, winter tyres or not.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Grizzle said:


> What did we do before all these "winter tyres"...
> 
> Bull Shi* if you ask me, I'm with Cueball.... not literally..


What did we do before the car? What did we do before electricity? Mobile phones? Internet? Iron?

Of course......we lived without them!


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## M TYRES (Mar 3, 2012)

Winter tyres come in to play not only when it's snowing but the temp. goes -5 degrees and below. Trust me you will notice the diffrence eg. tyre wear & fuel cunsuption


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

EliteCarCare said:


> Try them out on a 2wd vehicle in severe weather and you'll soon realise it's not BS!
> 
> Alex


Tell me Alex, what do you know about my life that you think I haven't tried them?!?!? FYI I have, and it is... imo

I'm not like some people that have opinions about things and rave or slate products without trying them.... :wall:

As I have said, which people seem to want to ignore... I have driven for many years with cars (small, and large 2wd, front and rear driven) on normal tyres in snow etc, never once got stuck, or caused any damage...

The real issue is people panic and think because they have special tyres they can drive like it's dry and clear...

I'm not the best driver in the world, so if I can live without winter tyres, anyone can. 

Just today, I have a 2wd golf... and I have driven over 100 miles... and Jeez, I'm still alive in these cold conditions...and haven't caused any damage...



If "winter tyres" help people think they are safe, then great...as I have said, good for them, I don't really see the need for all the questions and people guessing about my life just because I disagree....  and no petty little remarks or digs about me is going to change my mind.....

:thumb:


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## RD55 DUN (Dec 30, 2008)

EliteCarCare said:


> Try them out on a 2wd vehicle in severe weather and you'll soon realise it's not BS!
> 
> Alex


Got a Taxi in Switzerland with a good covering of snow on the roads during a heavy snowfall.

Taxi was an Automatic Merc, guy was flying down the alp roads, passing 4x4's, not once did the car slide or step out, and got up and down steep hills without a problem. I was genuinely fearful for my life at first.

Law over there for Winter tyres and seems to make a difference.


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## davidcraggs (Aug 1, 2007)

The Cueball - try driving a Jag XF on pirelli PZeros in snow and see how you get! It was absolutely useless (and I drove my BMW 330 through 2 winters on summer tyres without without any problems, as I've owed a rwd car since 2003). Last winter we bought a set of Vredestein Wintracs for the XF and it made the car driveable in pretty much anything a typical UK winter has to offer, whereas before it would struggle to move even on level ground.


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## EliteCarCare (Aug 25, 2006)

The Cueball said:


> Tell me Alex, what do you know about my life that you think I haven't tried them?!?!? FYI I have, and it is... imo
> 
> :thumb:


Calm down! 

I merely made a statement based on the fact that I have experienced a fwd car (my own A4 Avant), both on summer tyres and winter tyres and the difference is night and day. Worth every penny in my opinion and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to anybody.

Alex


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

davidcraggs said:


> The Cueball - try driving a Jag XF on pirelli PZeros in snow and see how you get!


Here we go again...my dad is bigger than your dad, my car is better than yours...... 

My XKR with 20" alloys is fine, so I don't think I'll bother with an XF, thanks anyway.... and I'll bet my XKR has more power than your XF... YAWN!!!! :wall:

:thumb:



EliteCarCare said:


> Calm down!
> 
> I merely made a statement based on the fact that I have experienced a fwd car (my own A4 Avant), both on summer tyres and winter tyres and the difference is night and day. Worth every penny in my opinion and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to anybody.
> 
> Alex


I'm calm, very calm.... 

Good for you if you felt a difference and like them, why can't you just accept that some people don't...?!?!?!?!

Doesn't make you right and other people wrong (same as it doesn't make me right and you wrong)

Everyone is different..... but no-one should be slated for giving their genuine opinions on products they have tried...not just saying this to you btw... 

:driver::driver::driver::driver:

:thumb:


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## davidcraggs (Aug 1, 2007)

Snow can vary immensely - sometimes it clumps together and is easy to make snowballs, sometimes it's all powdery and impossible to make a snowball. I guess that also effects how sometimes it's easy to drive on and other times not, even in the same car. Having used winter tyres on 4 different cars since 2005 what I do know is that winter tyres work in all kinds of snow, slush, wet, dry and I think they're money well spent (especially for the self employed who don't get paid when they are snowed in at home!).

When EVO had their long-term XFR they were going on about how controllable it was in the snow (on summer tyres). Next report they said they got stuck in about 1cm of snow!

They did some timed laps on summer tyres, winter tyres and then against an evo on summer tyres, in wintry conditions. The evo was about 2seconds quicker than the XFR on summer tyres, proving that 4wd didn't make that much difference, whereas the XFR on winter tyres (same size so still 285 rears) was 30 seconds quicker.

Don't believe I ever claimed my XF has more power than an XKR. My point was that it was terrible with 245 section tyres, whereas my 330Ci was much better in the snow with wider rears (255). Obviously it was my driving ability that was the problem since The Cueball is 'fine' in his XKR with 'more power' and 20" alloys.

In Dec 2010 I had a 1.6 petrol Astra hire car which I thought would be great in the snow - how wrong I was! I drove it from the NE to Shropshire on a Monday but during the week the weather got worse and worse and it was being an increasing struggle so at the end of the week I caught the train back home. When I told the hire company where to collect it and gave the registration they said 'oh an Astra, you've done well as we've not managed to drive any of those off the estate all week!'.

For the sake of £300 I bought a set of winter tyres for our fwd diseasal as well last year and agree with Alex about the difference they make - means I never have to worry about getting stuck and needing a push, unlike most of the cars on our estate when it has snowed!


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## hibberd (Jul 5, 2006)

My girlfriend drives like the devil is after her, she drove once on a flat tyre for long enough to need a new wheel. She normally doesnt notice what the car does or says to her, you can call her a typical every day driver. Most people only know something is wrong when the car slips all over the place and kisses the tree. You could never convince her of the need for anything on a car. Its a shopping trolley that she can sit in. After sitting next to her on a hairy trip in the snow I convinced her that there was somethuign wrong with her car and it needed to go to the garage (there wasnt but it was an excuse she listens to) I had them fit winter tyres (they are not snow tyres, they work better in snow too but for really snowy or icy conditions there are tyres with spikes that grip even better than normal winter tyres). When I gave here the car back the next day she drove just in front of the devil again, but told me afterwards that she didnt know what I had let them do but what a huge difference it made. they do make a difference but not everyone feels it or notices it untill others are in the ditch.


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## andyb (Jun 4, 2006)

I invested in a set of Nokians on some S/H wheels this winter on my Saab 95 Aero.....the difference on snow and slush or low temps is quite astonishing! Will take them off at the end of this month and put them back on begining of October this year.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)




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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

I was talking to a chap who owns a tyre place and I asked him about winter tyres and he said don't bother although they make a diffetence its mostly down to your driving style etc he said drop each tyre by 5 psi and you get the same effect. I've never drove with winter tyres as I can't afford the expense but I feel confident enough to drive in any condition. I feel when driving on snow, ice, cold wet etc its a bit like driving on the limit in the dry but the car loses grip much easier as long as I correct the car quick enough iam fine. I drove work everyday when we had that freak weather the other year without a problem. Driving at 60 plus on the motorways as normal. If I could afford winter tyres I'd go for themlike i said I've learnt to struggle on without.


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

Some cars just don't work without them. Plus main roads are usually gritted so fine.

I think we're all going to have to agree to disagree on this one!


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## swissrob (Oct 4, 2007)

RD55 DUN said:


> Law over there for Winter tyres and seems to make a difference.


its not law to have winter tyres but your car must be equipped for the conditions... winter time means winter tyres.

germany is different, you must have winter tyres.

winter or all season tyres have been around for decades, its just the general UK population has never heard of them.

They make a massive difference in the grip levels and anyone that says summer tyres do the same job as winter tyres is a fool.

we normally drop down 1 inch in wheel size for the winter set, yes most people have 2 sets of wheels.

for small tyres such as 14" good winter tyres cost about £40-50 there isnt really any excuse not to have them - unless you live somewhere that doesnt get any snow or ice or cold temperatures. e.g the scilly isles!

people often say " i cant afford it" etc, i would rather spend a bit than loosing it and stoving the car into a ditch


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## DeeTailer (Aug 13, 2009)

We're never going to settle this - because we're all in different situations.

I live on the west coast and apart from 2010 which was (we hope) an exception, we usually get one snowy flurry a year that lasts a day.

I have an uncle in Bolton only 35 miles away who lives in a hilly area and has sworn by winter tyres for decades.

So when my daughter started to drive in Sheffield, I asked his opinion....
So he says - how much is it going to cost for a set. £300 I said including wheels, and what's he insurance excess he said? "£300" I said....

So, he says, If it stops her just having one slide and small bump in her first winter of driving they've paid for themselves.... Look at it that way and its a no brainer.

Also - if you keep your cars like we do, then its not "extra money" because you're wearing your winter tyres instead of your summer ones, so the summer ones last longer. If she hadn't had a set of winter tyres, we'd have had to replace her normal tyres during the time she had the car, whereas it was, the original summer tyres lasted the whole three years that she had the car.

This is such commonplace now in Sheffield and other "rural" or hilly areas, that Kwick Fit even offer a storage service and when I was there one Saturday getting her winters fitted, 80% of all the customers in the whole time I was there were there to get their winter tyres swapped, not for any other reason....

No, I've never had winter tyres on the Fylde coast and by "being careful" in my front wheel drive cars I've always survived unscathed so far, because its mainly a flat coastal plain area, but if you live in a hilly area like sheffield which gets much more snowfall in the average year and you have to cope with the hilly conditions where its either so much harder to get traction or so much easier to slide going downhill, its almost a must.

Horses for courses.....


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

I drive a 20k per year and have always used summer and winter tyres, yes 2 sets is a substantial outlay, but as said before they last twice as long together.
Doing a 2weekly commute between Central Scotland and the Midlands it has been a good investment.
They work defiantly, and make a hell of a difference in cold weather.
Everybody with a little common sense knows that rubber reacts to temperature, hence the reason of tyre warmers in the F1 
Also different "aditives" in rubber can make it work better by certain temperatures, if you think it's B S and you dont buy into it because its a scam, than ask yourself why would they use different tyres in the F1?
Rubber is similair to oil and the "vicosity" has only a set range.
If you go outside the range it will still work but not to its designed performance.
I had on my ST Michelin PS3 fantastic tyre in the summer, but when the temp hit 4 degrees the car would oversteer and have a much longer braking distance.
If the PS3 would only smell snow they would spin and the car would stuck in his space.
For the winter i used Pirreli Sotozero and they did what they had to do, comfy, reliable and plenty grip, also on high speed(German Autobahn)
The other advantage was that my summer rims didnt have to eat salt and would still look new after 5 year and 100.000 mile:lol:

In the 32 years that i have my license, i have driven a variety of vehicles from superlight to superheavy (100 ton) super fast and super slow, but i have always realised that these little contact pieces of rubber and road keep me alive and are a good investment.

I suppose its everybody his own choice if you put winter tyres on your car or not, like its everybodys own choice if you have decent brakes or not.
For me is the choice easy and over all the years i heard all the excuses not to put winter tyres on, but realise the bodyshops all over the county are full in the winter with vehicles of very careful drivers:wall::wall:


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

What did we do before winter tyres??


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> What did we do before winter tyres??


Mostly drove smaller, lighter & skinnier tyred cars with a bit of common sense :lol:

I still think they're pretty good though 

Edit: I know they've been around since the 30's or something, I was being facetious. But I do generally believe that design/safety "progress" has had a hand in making it more tricky to cope with driving on snow nowadays


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> What did we do before winter tyres??


That time we maintained paint with animal fat and linseed oil, had a horse in front and had to sing along the whole journey.
Time has moved on and the technology is there to make things better, why not use it?


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## hibberd (Jul 5, 2006)

Grizzle said:


> What did we do before winter tyres??


walk in the snow and pretend we enjoyed being cold


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## avit88 (Mar 19, 2012)

Question:

Can you just put 2 winter tyres on the front wheels (its a fwd car) and leave the back tyres on summer tyres??


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## Jagnet (Dec 25, 2011)

avit88 said:


> Question:
> 
> Can you just put 2 winter tyres on the front wheels (its a fwd car) and leave the back tyres on summer tyres??


Depends on whether or not you want to go around corners, or brake.

In the snow I can only liken it to trying to do a quick lap around Cadwell Park with space savers on the rear, in the wet, when the track's quite greasy.

You may be ok, but chances are high that it's going to end horribly. Put four on or none.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Jagnet said:


> Depends on whether or not you want to go around corners, or brake.
> 
> In the snow I can only liken it to trying to do a quick lap around Cadwell Park with space savers on the rear, in the wet, when the track's quite greasy.
> 
> You may be ok, but chances are high that it's going to end horribly. *Put four on or none.*


Two are a lot better than none. People get stuck of one reason only...they can't get traction. Winter tyres on the driving wheels are the only thing that will improve traction.

Are 4 better? Of course. But two are far better than none.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

An uncle of mine who lives relatively out in the sticks only ever puts them on his driven wheels (Ford Focus) and he gets about just fine and they've not caused him any accidents or brown trouser moments.

If you do it, IMO, sensible driving prevails generally. But that goes for 2 tyres of 4 really


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## Jagnet (Dec 25, 2011)

Then buy a pair of chains, or snow socks if you just want traction.

This guy had traction, shame he ran out of grip:


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Jagnet said:


> Then buy a pair of chains, or snow socks if you just want traction.
> 
> This guy had traction, shame he ran out of grip:


Did he only have 2 winters on? 
Was he travelling along at a safe speed for the conditions?
Was he gunning it, because he has AWD so is automatically safe, and completely ****ed up?
Did he perhaps pull over by the side of the road and didn't realise there was a huge ditch rather than a solid verge?


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## Jagnet (Dec 25, 2011)

The problem is that winter tyres will give you so much more grip in snow than summers, that the car becomes desperately unbalanced. With plenty of traction one of the key indicators as to how much grip is available is taken away. Hence the proliferation of 4x4s found in ditches in the snow - mucho traction when accelerating giving them a false sense of security, only to be rudely brought back to earth when lateral grip is required.

As I say, you _may_ be ok. People have done it and not crashed, but likewise the same could be said of all manner of car related things - bald tyres, worn brakes, knackered shocks, etc.

To make a conscious decision to have far less grip on the back than the front for the sake of saving a few £££s of initial outlay seems foolhardy in the extreme.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Most places won't fit winter tyres if it's mixing them with summer tyres. IMO unless you drive like miss daisy at all times with them fitted then you're asking for a crash. I'm fairly sure that insurance companies would question it also if there was an accident. 

I wouldn't consider it under any circumstances.


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## mart. (Jul 7, 2008)

Nanoman said:


> Most places won't fit winter tyres if it's mixing them with summer tyres. IMO unless you drive like miss daisy at all times with them fitted then you're asking for a crash. I'm fairly sure that insurance companies would question it also if there was an accident.
> 
> I wouldn't consider it under any circumstances.


I've done it for the last 2 winters, no problems at all. Cant do it this year tho, XWD.

The other car needs tyres, might by winters now.


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## Aucky (Oct 3, 2008)

I started wading through this thread but as predicted it's full of idiots (no, not everyone) who have probably never driver on polished sheet ice or used winter tyres. 

I'll save my 2 pence and throw it down a wishing well and hope not to get shunted at a red light this winter. 

:|


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