# LSPs - A Different Perspective



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

So I sit here... couple of weeks after the wax test now, where with my objective hat on, I could preach that it makes absolutely no difference what wax you choose (or sealent, or egg white etc etc...), the end result looks wise will all come from the preparation... Indeed, if I was to consider the performance aspect of LSPs alone, I would stand by my above suggestions about the looks apart from perhaps very subtle nuances either way which may or may not be in the eye of the beholder.

But - deep in thought, I would venture to suggest that this really only tells part of the story of LSPs and discussion in Epoch's thread about Rubbishboy's Original Edition vs. Dodo's Juiced edition has driven that home for me of late...

A post I made in that thread:

*"....

However, for me, LSPs go much deeper than simply the looks these days.

Yes, there's the obvious durability aspect and for me this is the best measure of performance aspect alone a this is gauging what they are really intended for IMHO.

But, there's still a lot more to it than that and that is the enjoyment of waxing your car, and lets face it: I reckon thats something you, I, and most others here actually enjoy doing. The product plays a big part of that, whether it adds to the looks or not is largely irrelevant, as its the process and the feeling of satisfaction that means a lot more. To this end, the actual ethos of the product means a lot more to me than raw performance, especially for waxes which have more of a "homely" feel to their use if that makes sense... By ethos, I mean not only the feeling of using the product, but behind the scenes of the product and the effort that goes into manufacture and the effort put in by those making the products...

I often ask myself: would I rather support Ben, Mark, Dom and buy one of their waxes which at the end of the day are superb quality, have a lot of thought put in them, have a personal touch to them, and have a great ethos to them... or would I rather support a corporation that is so up itself it thinks we all know nothing? The answer is blatantly obvious of course. I'd far rather support Ben, Mark and Dom - primarily because they are sound guys and produce a damn good products, and the products dont just have the feeling of another entry on a company balance sheet. The products have thought in them, a little bit of soul even (strange thing to say about a wax!!), and they guys that make them actually care about whether we like them or not and that in itself is worth far more than an extra month's durability!!

My humble, and true thoughts about LSPs - for what they are worth "*

A lot of what I mean hear boils down to the simple fact: I enjoy waxing my car! There's a feeling of satisfaction to it, even if it doesn't translate to better looks, it certainly improves the durability, but its the way it makes you feel - effort and reward  This is backed up even more by products out there that have got a cracking ethos behind them that makes you smile as you use them - a very bizarre statement, that is for sure, but one which I think many will related to.

Using Zaino of late also highlights this fact: Zaino is a technically brilliant product, and has a lot to recommend it on on performance alone... additionally it is made also by people who actually care about your thoughts on it, and this is the most important thing for any product in my book. But, and this is a big but for the purposes of this post - its boring. Technically brilliant, I can apply three layers and leave it say six months. Thats a superb achievement but it removed _the need_ for something I enjoy... now I could wax over the top anyway, so thats not really the big picture but I'm using it as an example to highlight a point here... compared to a couple of summers ago where I used Pinnacle Souveran every week or two, this summer I'm a touch bored. This is not a slate against Zaino, if anything its a compliment to its technical abilities.

But the point of this post (for those now completely lost in the slightly crazy world that is my brain!!), is to emphasise that there is a place in the market for every LSP product and this is the reason I wont be selling all my waxes, and instead, will be buying more ... From various companies too! LSPs go deeper than just results for many people, and this is where the products like Rubbishboys Original Edition comes right in: its a homely product, designed for an enthusiast - its designed to do a task and make you enjoy doing it. It may not be technically superior to, eg Zaino Z2, but who cares? I mean, the new BMW 5-series is technically brilliant and the very thought of owining one makes me yawn. In the same way as a British sports car smacks a smile onto your face, these waxes do exactly the same - except in most cases, they too are technically very good as well!

Food for thought, on a tuesday afternoon


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## NKS (Feb 22, 2007)

A thought provoking post Dave :thumb: - I too keep buying waxes and sealents just to see what they can offer over something else. 

The weird thing is I stripped my LSP last weekend from Z ymol Concours and layered Collinite 476 after just 2 weeks and you know what - I will probably strip the collinite of next week and try some Raceglaze 55. I don't know why?? its just something I enjoy doing and it makes me feel good.


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

I must admit Dave, I didn't think you could actually last the summer without stripping the Zaino off because I put you in the weekly waxer category!

Some people like me who are a bit lazy and don't get as much time as I'd like these days really appreciate the long lasting sealants as the car stays looking great with less effort, but for some people they just cannot believe you could not want to be out waxing the car every week or so.

It goes for alot of things in life that on paper they may serve the same function, but different people get different kicks out of different products, I've got a £120 toaster for example, does the same thing as a £5 toaster, but I love it.

I have always said that I think alot of people have an almost emotional reaction to products, we want to believe that our efforts are not in vein and I know personally that my mood can change my opinion on a product, one day I could think a wax looks amazing, the next day, think it is average.

I guess the thing is, everybody will have a personal favourite LSP because everybody is different and I think thats a good thing.


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## Gandi (Dec 18, 2007)

Great Post Dave. Im with Neil i too would like more time to be out there with a wax every week, im lucky in the respect that i do get a bit of time so i have the ability to maybe re wax once a month so a long lasting wax like colli etc is good for me when the weather is bad lol but also means i dont have to worry about striping off a few 100 quids worth of wax every month.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

always been like that for me Dave :thumb:

I find I tend 'connect' to a product, or not, and that comes from a combination of lots of things including how it looks, lasts, is used, beads, sheets, who made it & what I think of them, who else uses it & the hype about it  etc etc.... If I dont find that connection for whatever reason, then its just not going to figure in my thinking any more.

No different in many walks of life from my choice of computer, car, watch.... Personal traits and preferences then come into it and that's why we all like different things


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

great post Dave.

I did worry for the last few months that you were taking all of this far far too seriously, and therefore missing the whole point.

Every single wax that I own has it's own story behind it. In many cases the story behind the wax is of far more interest than the gloss level that it leaves on my vehicle.

Megs NXT Version 1 - Led me to Meguiar's, to meet folk like you, Bry, Shaun, Johnny. The rest is history:thumb:

Megs #21 - I drove from Scotland to Nottingham to pick up a bottle off someone from here:thumb: and then drove back the same night.

Natty's Blue - My first purchase online from a company called Clean and Shiny. My first real invlovlement with young Mr 'Opolis. Look what that wax started.

Pinnacle Souveran - A great day out in Sleaford with Ant Gti-6. The biggest Sunday dinner that I've ever had. 

Z Vintage - I didn't buy this, but it's because of this wax that I've now got someone sat in my office each day who spends longer on here than I do:lol:

Supernatural 2 - A mad 11 hour drive to Dundee & back to wash and wax my car in the company of a few long term friends.

I think I've got another 20 plus waxes, and each of the waxes has got a little 'life moment' to go with it.

Enjoy your pastimes mate, because without the enjoyment what's really the point otherwise? A shiny looking car? I gave up detailing for a shiny looking car many moons ago. :thumb:


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

^^ Indeed - the spirit of detailing, will always remain true Steve :thumb::thumb:

Analysing products from a point of view of technical, even clinical abilities is my daily bread in many respects as a scientist and to some extent will always be something I do - I do like assessing the specific abilities of products and commenting on my personal findings of their performances...

But just in case anyone did think I was loosing my own spirit of detailing, it is very much alive and well and lives through every single meet which I have attended and will continue to attend :thumb:

So - shall I top the Zaino?!


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## lanciamug (May 18, 2008)

Well said Dave, its analagous to the saying about the enjoyment of travelling being about the journey, not the destination. Long may you continue. I now read this forum for your wise words rather than to learn about the art of detailing!


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

great post Steve  

Dave - strip it all off an start again with something else


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## DIESEL DAVE (Jul 26, 2007)

Its all about doing WHATEVER floats ya boat !


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Cracking Thread and posts guys! :thumb:

My own feelings echo a lot of what has been said. This is our hobby and done as a pastime to allow us to unwind from the daily pressures of life! 

It is our escape from the daily grind and the products need to feel special in some way for us to get pleasure from using them. I personally enjoy hand applying high end waxes that are difficult to justify on the basis of cost or looks (thanks Dave ) but that's one of the aspects that make my hobby highly enjoyable and special for me.

However, the result of the products doesn’t really matter when you are using something special which provides you with contentment and satisfaction.

It's a bonus that they will make the car look good and protect the paintwork. :lol:

Alan W


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## Robbieben (Feb 19, 2006)

WOW deep thoughts Dave, your suffering from WWS I Believe, all these "sealant details" of late have left you suffering from Wax Withdrawl Syndrome

Get some wax on the Volvo, you know you want to.


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## Tricky Red (Mar 3, 2007)

I just find it warming when you can admire your work and say, I've done that. 

I like to think, 'I've picked the products, done the best that I can and I'm proud (in my own way) of what I've achieved.'

It's all down to your own subjectivity and that it what I like about detailing and the products you (choose to) choose.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Robbieben said:


> WOW deep thoughts Dave, your suffering from WWS I Believe, all these "sealant details" of late have left you suffering from Wax Withdrawl Syndrome
> 
> Get some wax on the Volvo, you know you want to.


Ha ha, yeah I'm in the mood to wax the car I have to say...

Though, the Zaino will be given its chance to run the full course so I can evaluate it fully on my car


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## German Taxi (Nov 6, 2007)

I'm glad this has come up. I subscribe to the view that if you enjoy it (and get good results) then that's what you should do. It doesn't matter if you are a sealant only person. Or a wax only person. Or both. If it does it for you then it's all good.

Part of _my_ enjoyment comes from 'matching up' sealant/wax combos, e.g.

Chemical Guys Wet Look Mirror then Chemical Guys 50/50
Chemical Guys M-Seal then Chemical Guys Pete's 53
Poor Boys EX-P then Poor Boys Natty
Carlack LLS then Collinite 476s

I want to try something like Race Glaze 55 or Swissvax BOS but would like to get a different sealant so I've got a 'unique' combo. This type of compulsion means I am, of course, really taken with the idea of the new Blackfire polycharged range: sealant, wax and detailer, all matched to work together.

It's a blackhole for money! However, I bet I'll enjoy every minute applying them and seeing the results.

Jeez, this is like group therapy!! I feel better now though.......


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## hartzsky (Dec 23, 2007)

"_The product plays a big part of that, whether it adds to the looks or not is largely irrelevant, as its the process and the feeling of satisfaction that means a lot more."_I would tend to disagree with this. If I'm working on my car, the product I paid for better add to the looks or my satisfaction level/process goes in the toilet.


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## Holden_C04 (Sep 27, 2007)

Alan W said:


> Cracking Thread and posts guys! :thumb:
> 
> My own feelings echo a lot of what has been said. This is our hobby and done as a pastime to allow us to unwind from the daily pressures of life!
> 
> ...


Funny, I feel it's the most difficult things I have ever done. I enjoy it, but it requires more skill and effort than anything else I have worked at or performed.


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## dotnetdave (Aug 31, 2007)

i completely agree with dave's original post, having just converted to duragloss i now find myself looking at the car and knowing all it needs is a wash. I do sometimes yearn been in the position of having to wax the car every few weeks because i want to.

Another thing i find is with sealants esp Zaino or Duragloss they have a complete system of products and to get the best you use the system and do not try interleaving glazes, waxes etc. Where as with waxes there is a lot more experimenting with them i.e. does this glaze work with this wax, do i put it on before or after, how many coats. So this gives you the sense of experimentation you read posts on hear and the go out and try it yourself or come up with your own combinations and post up yoru results. So your venturing into unknown territory each weekend try more things and checking result of previous ones. With sealants you do all the initial prep work and applying the products, but once its done you know you have a minimum of 6months protection with nothing else needed but washing. So the chance for the young einstein in you to come out and play has gone.

On the flip side, i have found now having the sealants on that it leaves me more time to concentrate on other areas of the car. So now i am looking to refurb the wheels myself, loads of changes in the engine bay etc etc.


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## isherdholi (Sep 18, 2007)

Great post Dave. :thumb:


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

hartzsky said:


> "_The product plays a big part of that, whether it adds to the looks or not is largely irrelevant, as its the process and the feeling of satisfaction that means a lot more."_I would tend to disagree with this. If I'm working on my car, the product I paid for better add to the looks or my satisfaction level/process goes in the toilet.


In which case, I would suggest that various LSPs and swapping between them isn't for you, and that the clinical and technical merits of the product are - thus concentration on technique and preparation will deliver you with far more satisfaction than an expensive wax will for example...

But the joy is we are all different, and many of us here do enjoy the feeling of satisfaction there is to waxing the car... whether it adds to the looks or not is actually largely irrelevant a lot of the time, adding to the durability a little more relevant, but the actual process and enjoyment meaning a lot more: this being the approach more of an enthusiast. As was mentioned above as a good anecdote, when driving its the journey thats far more enjoyable than the destination in many cases


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

I totally agree, part of the enjoyment of valeting is trying something new, something unknown, finding out which products work best on light cars and which on dark, getting to know a product, how best to apply it. 

I first started getting into this when I bought some Megs NXT (I wouldn't touch the stuff now), from there i heard about claying and bought their Quickclay kit and thats when I really bit the bug.

The thrill for me is finding a product which cost pence, but will perform as well as the mega bucks items. For that the Tropi-Care sealant sums me up. 

Everything I own can be easily bought for very little:
Jet Seal
Speedarmour
Pete's53
Lime Prime
BH autoclay
Etc
Etc

You won't ever find BOS/supernatural/Royale in my cleaning bin, to me they just don't make sense.


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## N8KOW (Aug 24, 2007)

Fantastic post Dave.


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## Dipesh (Oct 12, 2007)

Totally agree with Dave. Its all about the experience!


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## hartzsky (Dec 23, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> In which case, I would suggest that various LSPs and swapping between them isn't for you, and that the clinical and technical merits of the product are - thus concentration on technique and preparation will deliver you with far more satisfaction than an expensive wax will for example...
> 
> But the joy is we are all different, and many of us here do enjoy the feeling of satisfaction there is to waxing the car... whether it adds to the looks or not is actually largely irrelevant a lot of the time, adding to the durability a little more relevant, but the actual process and enjoyment meaning a lot more: this being the approach more of an enthusiast. As was mentioned above as a good anecdote, when driving its the journey thats far more enjoyable than the destination in many cases


I've used 3 LSP'S in the last 7 years. Klasse AIO, Menzerna FMJ and Zaino. Although I did just get in Blackfires Wet Diamond Sealant along with Midnight Sun paste wax to test out..(My first paste wax.)


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## PWOOD (Apr 30, 2007)

The LSP test results came as no suprise to me. I love a good LSP'ing session like the rest of you. I also hate doing all that work and not getting the results expected ( its called detailing depression). So that's why I spend more time one here reading peoples personal finding before wasting any more time and money. Personally I like an LSP that fills as well as I can then top it up rather than having to start afresh each time, hence why I am a BiltHamber AB fan at the moment. 

I think one factor that gets overlooked when comparing waxes is that we all have different cars with different amounts of paint/clearcoat. I wonder if certain paints work best with certain LSP's ie German cars v Jap cars. Sorry Dave I just had to throw that one in :lol:


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

hartzsky said:


> I've used 3 LSP'S in the last 7 years. Klasse AIO, Menzerna FMJ and Zaino. Although I did just get in Blackfires Wet Diamond Sealant along with Midnight Sun paste wax to test out..(My first paste wax.)


all my cars have had >3 LSPs on them in the last 7 months :lol:

just goes to show we all have different aims and goals from our detailing and from DW, which makes it all the more interesting :thumb:


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

I had AutoGlym Hi Def arrive today

Best packaging i've recieved a wax pot in, nice applicators that are wet in an air tight bag (they are supposed to be!) and a bright red MF.

Made me smile and I haven't even put it on anything yet!

Last week Dodo SNv2 - an improvement on one of my favourite waxes

Half the fun in anything should be the experience IMHO


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Epoch said:


> I had AutoGlym Hi Def arrive today
> 
> Best packaging i've recieved a wax pot in, nice applicators that are wet in an air tight bag (they are supposed to be!) and a bright red MF.
> 
> ...


I've been very tempted also! :lol:

The packaging and added value extras make it very appealing! :thumb:

Clever and thoughtful marketing for sure! 

Alan W


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## keyd (Mar 28, 2009)

Dave you certainly have an interesting take on your hobby.

For me at the moment being new to detailing the polish and wax I plan on buying to try first will be about the end results (and so it should) I think later when I get more adventurous I will try other products and could end up like others in this thread and finding it is more about the enjoyment of making my car look its best.


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## spooj (Mar 29, 2008)

L200 Steve said:


> great post Dave.
> 
> I did worry for the last few months that you were taking all of this far far too seriously, and therefore missing the whole point.
> 
> ...


a brilliant post and it certainly highlights the merits of a strong community and actually enjoying these products.i like the fact you genuinely have a story attached to them!!

i would say its been partly a learning curve getting into all these products.
you learn whats constructive and whats positively damaging in some cases.
ie:mis applied,not working a product correctly to garner its strengths.

i love a majority of the dodo range of products and its the wax's that actually got me enjoying this stage.they do add a warmth to there overall product and 'ethos' very much smacks of a company thats run by people who have a passion for the end result and actually care greatly about the people they meet and deal with.:thumb:

i guess it not being a global behemoth that meguiars is gives them the advantage of a homely feel and connectivity with the public.big corporate names personally leave me a touch cold and coupled with the big priced some attach to there wax,it really does keep me wanting more homely made products.

question is,is it entirely possible to retain a true home based ethos and mega laid back product for the people when you go super large? i know a couple of firms ive worked with have the fmaily feel when small and its an atmosphere you truly dont mind getting out of bed for,but when they have become massive,the atmos changes forever.


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

I love waxing my car,but also I love seeing the beading in the rain.Usually the love of waxing takes over though and I end up stripping it every month and sticking another couple of coats of a different lsp on it.
Each one has a different story like the first ever wax I bought from CYC,my colly 476.The first ever dodojuice I bought was blue velvet,I didnt half get some grief off the oh for that.Right upto my latest,rainforest rub.A mate bought me it from ultimate dubs,I didnt get my hands on it for about 4 days and was itching to use it!


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