# i've to attend court on Thursday in Scotland, should I go?



## p3asa (Aug 26, 2009)

I've been charged with speeding doing 54mph in a 30mph zone.Personally I think there are a couple of contentious issues but I've decided just to plead guilty.

I had toyed with a solicitor to fight it but cost v benifits are heavily weighted on cost so since I have a clean licence I've decided to just take the hit.

The court is in Scotland and I can plead guilty by letter but I was wondering if it was worthwhile getting suited and booted and turning up and possibly making an @rse of myself or pleading guilty by letter?

Anyone any ideas?


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## hobbs182 (Jul 10, 2013)

would either one result in the same outcome?

if it means dressing up and making the effort to result in a lesser punishment then it's gotta be worth while

otherwise why waste the petrol tbh


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## Monny Fan (Sep 27, 2014)

54 in a 30?? Scotland isnt the place to speed a mate did 32 in a 20 at 2am and lost his licence for 3 years but turning up in person does normally go in your favour


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## p3asa (Aug 26, 2009)

That's what I don't know. Ive tried looking about the net and asking folk but can't really find anything so was hoping someone on here had experience.

I'll happily do whatever.


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## p3asa (Aug 26, 2009)

Monny Fan said:


> 54 in a 30?? Scotland isnt the place to speed a mate did 32 in a 20 at 2am and lost his licence for 3 years but turning up in person does normally go in your favour


There must have been other issues / totting up even then that is excessive.
Its only 7 - 54 day ban or up to 6 points.
3 different solicitors I've spoken with reckon anything from 3 - 6 points if just plead guilty.


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## Monny Fan (Sep 27, 2014)

He was stopped by a sheriff not the police


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Monny Fan said:


> 54 in a 30?? Scotland isnt the place to speed a mate did 32 in a 20 at 2am and lost his licence for 3 years but turning up in person does normally go in your favour


No way, he must have been lashed or something. He's surely fibbing.

My mate got a 30 day ban for 80mph in a 60 zone.
I took him to court, in Lincoln.
We were the only ones there dressed smartly. The place was full of pikeys, all laughing joking with one another like it was a day out.


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

Bloke I work with told his son to go to court instead of doing it by letter 

Off son went to court all in his nice clothes , Had a bit of a problem keeping his mouth shut because he then decided to argue , walked out with a ban


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

Monny Fan said:


> He was stopped by a sheriff not the police


I think your mate is being economical with the truth, under police guidelines that would be 3 points and £100 fine, I've never heard of a 3 year ban for speeding, if he did he must have had some serious previous convictions.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

What contentious issues is there? 

Do you live in Scotland? Is Eaglesham South Lanarkshire? 

I think you'll get 6 point and a reasonable fine depending on your earnings.

Obviously pleading guilty reduces the penalty given. 

We don't get many small bans up here like you do in England.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Monny Fan said:


> 54 in a 30?? Scotland isnt the place to speed a mate did 32 in a 20 at 2am and lost his licence for 3 years but turning up in person does normally go in your favour


...In a stolen car, while drunk and high, then tried to get away by driving the wrong way down a pedestrianized one-way street with a shotgun.

I'm calling BS for that. A friend did 55 in a 30 at school closing time and got a 30 day ban (shortly after getting his license back for doing 111mph in a 70).

You get a 4 year ban for killing three passengers while driving uninsured with no licence up here.


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## Jenny19 (Mar 18, 2014)

If you have an excuse, apparently they are more likely to hear you out if you go to court, apparently they won't read any supporting letters if there are any.
Speed freak or did you have a good reason to be driving that fast?!


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## m4rkymark (Aug 17, 2014)

About 7 yrs ago I got done for doing 52 in a 40 at three in the morning on Christmas eve/Christmas morning on the way out a small village 30miles from the nearest main town, coming out the village there is a 40zone with about 6 houses in it over 1/3rd of a mile so it's not a heavily populated area at all. I couldn't believe the *******s gave me a ticket, anyway got 3 points and a £60 fine. I'm not bitter about it though


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## p3asa (Aug 26, 2009)

Yeah South Lanarkshire. All 3 solicitors have told me the magistrates are decent blokes in Paisley Sheriff Court LoL.

@Jenny no I'm not a speed freak, I have a clean licence. I actually thought the road was a 40mph as the road is split by a roundabout and the previous road is a 40. Plus it had no signs after the roundabout. So in my head I was only speeding by 14mph 

But I'd only had my new Golf a few weeks and it is so easy to be speeding and not realise so be very careful when your R arrives 

These obviously aren't mitigating circumstances and I'm not going to mention them.


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## Jenny19 (Mar 18, 2014)

What will your defence be?
Fair enough, I got caught on a 30mph stretch of dual carriageway coming out of a 50 with only tiny signposts, they hide up a side road because it's so easy to catch people.
Grr don't make me jealous! My R has just been delayed by another month! Don't know if I'll even get it this year!


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## p3asa (Aug 26, 2009)

Kerr said:


> What contentious issues is there?


The police were about 50 metres back from the brow of a hill and got me at 419metres. This was going downhill so I then went out of their view for about 10 seconds. Halfway down this hill out of their view there is a road into a new housing estate. So who is to say the car speeding didn't turn into the housing estate and I then came trundling along. Or the speeding car turned into the housing estate and I turned out of the housing estate and was the next car to face the police?

I thought it was their job to prove it was me 100%?

Getting a reading on my car at over 4 football lengths away is fair enough but there is no way they could identify make or model at that distance just colour. Then it disappears for 10 seconds!! Anything could happen in that time.

All 3 solicitors have said they reckon I would have a good case, with the chances of getting off with it but at £1800 - £3000, the cost far outweighs the benefits!!

I'll bend over and take it like a man 

@Jenny I won't have a defence, I'll just plead guilty. I just wanted to know if it was best me there in person or plead guilty by post which you can do in Scotland.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

p3asa said:


> The police were about 50 metres back from the brow of a hill and got me at 419metres. This was going downhill so I then went out of their view for about 10 seconds. Halfway down this hill out of their view there is a road into a new housing estate. So who is to say the car speeding didn't turn into the housing estate and I then came trundling along. Or the speeding car turned into the housing estate and I turned out of the housing estate and was the next car to face the police?
> 
> I thought it was their job to prove it was me 100%?
> 
> ...


So to let me get this straight, the laser did clock you at 54mph from 419 meters away, but you hope that there would be confusion that it was not you because there was a junction?

However I'm guessing by the way you've written that there was no other car?

It doesn't sound to contentious to me. You know you were speeding and the police are confident enough too since they've charged you.

Either I'm totally bamboozled from what you've said, or I really don't see your argument.


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## zippo (Mar 26, 2008)

Kerr said:


> What contentious issues is there?
> 
> Do you live in Scotland? Is Eaglesham South Lanarkshire?
> 
> ...


that surprises me Kerr with most of Scotland (the parts I've seen I should say) being rural I'd have thought a car as a necessity. Mind if you abuse the system bad things happen I suppose . Back to the rural thing ,wouldn't someone whose banned be almost housebound. By the way I've no idea about public transport in that neck of the woods
Daz


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

zippo said:


> that surprises me Kerr with most of Scotland (the parts I've seen I should say) being rural I'd have thought a car as a necessity. Mind if you abuse the system bad things happen I suppose . Back to the rural thing ,wouldn't someone whose banned be almost housebound. By the way I've no idea about public transport in that neck of the woods
> Daz


You just take the horse and cart to the pub if you can't drive.

It's a pain when one of the pesky kids thinks it's funny to give the horse Buckfast.

Spent many a night in the pub car park rolling about with both of us legless.


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## p3asa (Aug 26, 2009)

Kerr said:


> So to let me get this straight, the laser did clock you at 54mph from 419 meters away, but you hope that there would be confusion that it was not you because there was a junction?
> 
> However I'm guessing by the way you've written that there was no other car?
> 
> ...


There were quite a few cars on the road going both ways.
Was I speeding? Yes
Was I doing 54mph? Absolutely no way.
Also the statement I gave at the time has a different speed to the one they claim now I was doing!

Where they allegedly got me is not far off a roundabout and I know for a fact I wasn't booting it coming off that. Cars coming the other way flashed me and when I looked down I was sitting at 38 (believing it was a 40 as the continuation of the road before the roundabout is 40 with the exact same country road surroundings) As the hill comes back up it goes into a populated area so I was doing 30 by the time of reaching the brow of the hill and then back in sight of the police.

I've been done a few times in my 30 years driving and know fine well if you speed you deserve to be prosecuted. However if money was no object I would happily pay to contest the speed they claim I was doing.
By all means they can do me for 38 in a 30 but to negotiate for that I've been quoted £1k plus VAT. Considering I have a clean licence financially I am better off just accepting their punishment.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Just reading back the other posts, in your own words you know you were speeding.

I would assume that police officers setting up with a speed gun would set up in an area that they were confident of catching and convicting offenders.

They must be confident that their evidence is strong and the procurator fiscal also has to agree there is a case before it heads to court.

If you stand up and try to justify yourself saying similar to what you have here, I think your punishment will be far higher.

It sounds clear cut to me, you were speeding, you know you were speeding and the police officers are also confident you were speeding.

As you know you are guilty, you should accept the punishment for it.

Take the risk for a technicality and lose, the punishment and bills for the solicitors will hit a lot harder.

Best of luck though.

Haven't the police provided you with all the evidence they are going to use it court?


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## p3asa (Aug 26, 2009)

Thanks.
They gave me a summary of evidence which basically just says what device they used, speed caught at and location.

After discussing it with the Mrs, the guilty plea is a definite. 
I've since read on various solicitors pages it makes no difference whether you attend or not in fact it is better if you don't as it streamlines the process if you aren't there. 

Oh well I better be especially careful over the next 3 years.


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## Jenny19 (Mar 18, 2014)

They'll probably give you 3-6 points straight away plus a fine at those speeds. If that were me, I'd just plead guilty via letter because I appealed one of mine (clipped a red light to avoid an accident) and I think because they have to put more man hours into looking into the case, they gave me a bigger fine (about £400!)


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

I know it may be different in Scotland but here in England my friend recently got done for 56 in a 30, she got 5 points and £80 fine, she pleaded guilty by letter, her fine was low as she doesn't earn a lot, are the fines in Scotland based on income ?


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## m4rkymark (Aug 17, 2014)

When I was caught I contested mine in court because the document I was given had the wrong registration number on it, it was one digit wrong. Even the policeman who delivered the documentation told me to go and say that's not my car in the document given its the wrong reg. When I went and pointed out it was the wrong registration the sheriff told me they would be happy to put the date back for me to seek legal advice and come back again, I declined and said I was happy to go ahead and accept I was speeding - I rceived the same number of points and fine as I would have if I had accepted the fine and paid within 30 days or whatever. 

When it came to the day In court though I'm not sure how they would have put their case for prosecution forward because they didn't send anyone to court so I'm not sure how they would have defended their position if they weren't there.

Most solicitors give people an initial consultation free for 30 mins. Maybe it would be worth your while going and speaking to one about it?


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## p3asa (Aug 26, 2009)

@lofty England have Court Sentencing Guidelines and you can clearly see which category your speed / offence falls into so you can see what you can expect. http://www.mjpmotoring.co.uk/guidelines-speeding-offences.php
Scotland don't have that and you are at the mercy of the judge wich could be equally good or bad. Although if he's just been involved in a road rage incident on the way to work you can probably expect the worst LoL

Thanks m4rkymark. The first appearance is really just a pleading diet. If you had said you weren't guilty, the case would have been put back to allow the officers to be there and put their evidence forward. As for wrong registration, since reading loads on the subject recently, a few digits wrong isn't a get out clause any more unfortunately. I've already contacted solicitors, 3 different ones in fact and although they all reckon they would have a good chance of getting it thrown out, it would be a risk too much if it went wrong and I had to pay their fees, average £2k and also the points / court fine.


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## nichol4s (Jun 16, 2012)

I was caught doing 85 in a 60 and received 5 points and a £350 fine.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

OP - i think your initial statement will screw you - did you mention that a car DID turn off...and that you DID emerge from a housing estate?

In any case, speeding is an absolute offence, if you admitted you 'may have' or 'were' speeding but 'no way' were you doing '54mph' that is ZERO defence, you still get points and a fine.

Take it on the chin, and if it's going to cost you more than £20 in fuel and a couple hours time I would just plead guilty by post.



Monny Fan said:


> 54 in a 30?? Scotland isnt the place to speed a mate did 32 in a 20 at 2am and lost his licence for 3 years but turning up in person does normally go in your favour


No chance that's the full story!



Monny Fan said:


> He was stopped by a sheriff not the police


lol, I'm guessing this is humour?



Kerr said:


> You just take the horse and cart to the pub if you can't drive.
> 
> It's a pain when one of the pesky kids thinks it's funny to give the horse Buckfast.
> 
> Spent many a night in the pub car park rolling about with both of us legless.


It's a pain when this happens!


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## Beef-Mc (Jun 12, 2008)

If you're pleasing guilty by letter make sure its in ASAP as if they don't receive it in time, the case will be continued for you to make a personal appearance at a later date.


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## ZStephen (Feb 26, 2013)

Why do I have the feeling that very shortly before or very shortly after you were exceeding the speed limit by a fair bit over the Eaglesham moors?

If so then take it as a toll for using that road and you're really unlucky to be caught as I've never seen the polis sitting in Eaglesham with the gun out. (Unless it was in waterfoot?)

If you didn't absolutely hoor a golf R over the moors then I'm disappointed and you've missed out an epic road by about a mile!

Either way, if you go up and say "it wasn't me" then sheriffs aren't daft, realise you're taking the **** and they'll do you anyway with more chance of a larger fine.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Totally guessing here, but if you are pleading guilty, then i guess the outcome will be pretty much the same?

I guess in person you may be able to put a defence forward, but if you are pleading guilty, can you put in a defence?

What is the case with court costs? If you plead guilty by letter, do you still have court costs in addition to the fine/points etc? 

If not, then i'd be weighing up the cost of a stamp against the petrol and additional court costs.


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## p3asa (Aug 26, 2009)

ZStephen said:


> Why do I have the feeling that very shortly before or very shortly after you were exceeding the speed limit by a fair bit over the Eaglesham moors?


If only! Yeah that is a great wide open road which is literally just a mile from where I stay so use it quite often.

Nothing as dramatic, it was just after the roundabout going from Eaglesham to to Waterfoot. Literally as I came off the roundabout. Annoying thing is I know the police are always there but thought they were waiting for you coming up and over the hill as you go into Waterfoot not as your coming off the roundabout oh well lesson learnt


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## p3asa (Aug 26, 2009)

Shiny said:


> Totally guessing here, but if you are pleading guilty, then i guess the outcome will be pretty much the same?
> 
> I guess in person you may be able to put a defence forward, but if you are pleading guilty, can you put in a defence?
> 
> ...


The outcome could be the same whether getting a solicitor to represent you or if pleading guilty. Its entirely at the judges decision. Likewise whether you turn up or plead by letter. There doesn't seem to be any way which would be more beneficial. Although reading on a few solicitor sites,they reckon the court prefers if pleading guilty then to do it by letter as they can basically deal with it in minutes rather than all the nonsense involved with you going to court.

If you want to put a defence forward then you have to plead guilty. You can however have mitigating circumstances but I think if you went along to court with mitigating circumstances, the judge would pull it apart and give you the highest penalty for being stupid  Hence where a solicitor comes in. But that has ranged from £1000 to £2500 all plus VAT!

As for court costs, you don't pay them if in Scotland for motoring charges. They probably just add that to your fine LoL

The case was yesterday but I just plead guilty by letter in the end!!


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## gizzy_wizzy92 (Apr 29, 2014)

I got caught doing 57mph in a 30mph and few months later 70mph in a 40mph ....both times let off :/


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## p3asa (Aug 26, 2009)

gizzy_wizzy92 said:


> I got caught doing 57mph in a 30mph and few months later 70mph in a 40mph ....both times let off :/


Was that on the XBox? :lol:

How'd you manage that? Very lucky.


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## gizzy_wizzy92 (Apr 29, 2014)

Na it was on my motorbike lol!

Well the first time I came out of a tunnel in central London and he was in the middle of the road pulled me and a fellow rider.

Gave us a bollocking but apparently couldn't prosecute because he wasn't sure which on of us he got the hit on.

Second time was coming to work at about 7am, mind wasn't all there and apparently I was doing 70mph in a 40mph past a school lucky it wasn't term time! He spoke to me and I was oblivious to what speed I was doing of course i sincerely apologized, he said if my details check out he'll let me go =D


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## p3asa (Aug 26, 2009)

3 points and £180 fine. The judge must have been having a good day.


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