# Confusion over Surfex-HD



## Hamslay

Hi all. I'm new to this so apologies in advance for all the stupid questions heading your way. 

In the past I've always cleaned my motorcycles with a product called SDoc 100 gel. You spray it on, agitate it with a brush, leave it a few minutes and then hose it off. Add in the occasional coat of Meguiars wax and some Hot Rims for the wheels and it's done.

I stumbled across the Auto Express review of Surfex-HD where they described it as a shampoo. I called Bilt Hamber, explained how I clean the bike, and asked if Surfex-HD, diluted, would be a good, more economical replacement for the SDoc 100, and could I apply it from a pump sprayer. The bloke said it would be fine for cleaning the bike, and fine in the sprayer.

Having cleaned the bike once, and found it a success, I decide to give the car a blast with the Surfex-HD. I've neglected the car since new, so any wash was a good wash. Again, the results were fine.

However, doing some reading, I'm a bit concerned. Most stuff on here and elsewhere refers to Surfex-HD as a degreaser and APC, not certainly NOT a shampoo of any type. Some advice on other forums states it is unwise to use Surfex-HD on paintwork and says the Auto Express review is nonsense.

So, firstly, am I risking the finish on either the car or the bike using sprayed on, diluted Surfex-HD, a soft brush, and a hose? Can an APC work as a sort of shampoo???

Secondly, what benefits would I see, for either vehicle, of switching to Auto Foam (or similar), followed by a "proper" shampoo applied with a mitt??

Believe it or not, I LOVE maintaining my bikes, but the shampoo and buckets method always seemed a bit old school.

What do you reckon? Be lazy, spray on Surfex-HD and be done, or go back to the drawing board and get some shampoo and buckets? If I do stop using the Surfex-HD as a general purpose bodywork cleaner, where would I use it? I have litres of the stuff! 

Thanks in advance. I hope to not appear quite so stupid in future posts!


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## OGGYsri

Surfex HD isn't a shampoo. Like you say it's a degreaser. I have used it on trim etc but never as a wash for paintwork. 

If used at a low dilution i have read it could stain paintwork.


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## EliteCarCare

It's a degreaser/apc, not a shampoo. Probably the best and safest degreaser you'll ever use, amazing on bikes.

You would still need to wash with a shampoo. Autofoam can be used to clean but it's essentially a pre-wash product.

Alex


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## stangalang

Surfex IS a degreaser. Bilt hamber do have a shampoo though!

I use surfex on paint no problems, except on heavily oxidised paint where it will eat into the oxidation. Personally auto foam is my fave pre wash for general maintenance, and I add the same amount of surfex to the mix for a "pre detail" wash, followed by a contact wash (shampoo and MIT)

I've never tried surfex as a shampoo, but doubt it would foam in a bucket too well, or be that slick under MIT/sponge


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## Will-S

Not a shampoo


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## lowejackson

As others have said, the BH is a great APC. It is nice to see the mention of a OK Wack products here again.


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## chrisc

stangalang said:


> Surfex IS a degreaser. Bilt hamber do have a shampoo though!
> 
> I use surfex on paint no problems, except on heavily oxidised paint where it will eat into the oxidation. Personally auto foam is my fave pre wash for general maintenance, and I add the same amount of surfex to the mix for a "pre detail" wash, followed by a contact wash (shampoo and MIT)
> 
> I've never tried surfex as a shampoo, but doubt it would foam in a bucket too well, or be that slick under MIT/sponge


superb on white with a big vikan brush on van brings back white's whiter than white:lol:
Got that off daz advert but yes gets rid of the grey tinge they tend to get after many miles


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## Hamslay

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the responses.

So, what does a shampoo do that an APC doesn't? No-one has actually come out and told me to go and buy some buckets yet. 

So how about this? Use Auto Foam or similar as pre-wash on both vehicles. Then use Surfex-HD on car wheel arches, bike engine, bike chain fling etc., bike wheels maybe, and then use shampoo and buckets for the paintwork?

Thanks again!


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## stangalang

Hamslay said:


> Thanks everyone. I appreciate the responses.
> 
> So, what does a shampoo do that an APC doesn't? No-one has actually come out and told me to go and buy some buckets yet.
> 
> So how about this? Use Auto Foam or similar as pre-wash on both vehicles. Then use Surfex-HD on car wheel arches, bike engine, bike chain fling etc., bike wheels maybe, and then use shampoo and buckets for the paintwork?
> 
> Thanks again!


Boom! You got it :thumb:


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## P.M.J.

I’m using Surfex HD myself as a pre wash applied from a pump sprayer and consider it wax safe when diluted minimum 20:1. A stronger dilution ratio of 5:1 is very good as an engine degreaser, cleaner for floor mats and tyres e.g.

In Norway, Surfex HD is very popular in the national detailing forum for usage on panels in the same manner as for instance VP Citrus Pre Wash.


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## Hamslay

Thanks guys.

Parcelforce just dropped off 5 litres of Auto Foam so I'll give that a go this week.

I'm still interested to know what shampoo has, or doesn't have, that diluted Surfex-HD doesn't, especially with Auto Express rating it with the shampoos. I'm happy to go with the flow, take advice from those that know, and go with the 2BM method etc., but I'd like to know the "why" as well as the "what". My bike-cleaning mates are surely going to ask me "Why don't you just spray it, brush it and hose it like you used to?" when they see me messing around with buckets and mitts, and I'd like to have an educated response.


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## LuckyStrike

Surfex HD is degreaser/all-around cleaner and got higher cleaning power than Auto-Foam which is for pre-wash.
Main difference between these two is LSP (wax) safety. If you wax your bike, use auto-foam as maintenance washes.

Here is some dilution ratios for Surfex:

− Car`s interior cleaning 0,5 - 1,0 %
− APC 5 %
− Removing wax layers on car 15 - 20 %
− Washing Oil/Grease example from your bike 30 - 100 %

Dilution ratios for Auto-Foam:

- Use always at least 4% and max 10% dilution ratio for wax safe wash.
Main idea for prewash is to remove dirt before mitt. If u use mitt before prewash, it will cause some swirls & scratches on paint. 

There`s shampoo too from Bilt-Hamber called Auto-Wash.

- 5ml auto-wash for 9 litres of water. :detailer:


:thumb:


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## Bilt-Hamber Lab

Hamslay said:


> Hi all. I'm new to this so apologies in advance for all the stupid questions heading your way.
> 
> In the past I've always cleaned my motorcycles with a product called SDoc 100 gel. You spray it on, agitate it with a brush, leave it a few minutes and then hose it off. Add in the occasional coat of Meguiars wax and some Hot Rims for the wheels and it's done.
> 
> I stumbled across the Auto Express review of Surfex-HD where they described it as a shampoo. I called Bilt Hamber, explained how I clean the bike, and asked if Surfex-HD, diluted, would be a good, more economical replacement for the SDoc 100, and could I apply it from a pump sprayer. The bloke said it would be fine for cleaning the bike, and fine in the sprayer.
> 
> Having cleaned the bike once, and found it a success, I decide to give the car a blast with the Surfex-HD. I've neglected the car since new, so any wash was a good wash. Again, the results were fine.
> 
> However, doing some reading, I'm a bit concerned. Most stuff on here and elsewhere refers to Surfex-HD as a degreaser and APC, not certainly NOT a shampoo of any type. Some advice on other forums states it is unwise to use Surfex-HD on paintwork and says the Auto Express review is nonsense.
> 
> So, firstly, am I risking the finish on either the car or the bike using sprayed on, diluted Surfex-HD, a soft brush, and a hose? Can an APC work as a sort of shampoo???
> 
> Secondly, what benefits would I see, for either vehicle, of switching to Auto Foam (or similar), followed by a "proper" shampoo applied with a mitt??
> 
> Believe it or not, I LOVE maintaining my bikes, but the shampoo and buckets method always seemed a bit old school.
> 
> What do you reckon? Be lazy, spray on Surfex-HD and be done, or go back to the drawing board and get some shampoo and buckets? If I do stop using the Surfex-HD as a general purpose bodywork cleaner, where would I use it? I have litres of the stuff!
> 
> Thanks in advance. I hope to not appear quite so stupid in future posts!


Make no mistake ALL surfactant blends are labelled in many kinds of ways, APC's, TFR's shampoos, detergents, degreasers etc, etc they are ALL variations of similar. Surfex HD CAN be considered a pressure washer shampoo -safe for paintwork even with regular use.


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## firehorse

Hi,


Bilt-Hamber Lab said:


> Make no mistake ALL surfactant blends are labelled in many kinds of ways, APC's, TFR's shampoos, detergents, degreasers etc, etc they are ALL variations of similar. Surfex HD CAN be considered a pressure washer shampoo -safe for paintwork even with regular use.


If Auto Foam is a great cleaner at 5% and some people on this forum have used it as contactless cleaner;

and if Surfex HD at 5% is a great pressure washer cleaner (AutoExpress 2012 & 2016) ... then what is the difference between the two in terms of getting your car cleaned? 

... if Auto Foam had some foaming ability but Surfex HD also doubles as an APC then what is the advantage of using AutoFoam over using Surfex HD, either by foam lance/pressure washer or both by hand pressure sprayer?

Does that mean in theory, for cleaning a car, I only need Surfex HD (I can save one bottle space  )?

If would be great if you can expand upon this.

Does it make any difference if the wax underneath is double speed wax or any other brand?

Many thanks


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## steelghost

Holy thread revival Batman.

BH (sadly) rarely post on here these days, but I'm sure if you give them a call they'll be able to explain further.

As I understand it, the formulation of Auto Foam is optimised for no-touch action, whereas Surfex is optimised for, uh, other things, degreasitude being first and foremost :thumb:

Bilt Hamber's waxes tend to be particularly detergent resistant - apparently their testing involved washing the panel with neat Fairy liquid among other things! Anyway, other waxes may or may not exhibit a similar degree of detergent resistance.


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## firehorse

Hi,


steelghost said:


> Holy thread revival Batman.
> 
> BH (sadly) rarely post on here these days, but I'm sure if you give them a call they'll be able to explain further.
> 
> I understand it, the formulation of Auto Foam is optimised for no-touch action, whereas Surfex is optimised for, uh, other things, degreasitude being first and foremost :thumb:
> 
> Bilt Hamber's waxes tend to be particularly detergent resistant - apparently their testing involved washing the panel with neat Fairy liquid among other things! Anyway, other waxes may or may not exhibit a similar degree of detergent resistance.


I've been using the search function :lol: and this thread was the closest to what I was looking for.

I'll give them a call tomorrow 

Thanks


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## firehorse

From the man himself

"Sorry for my delayed response we've got major works on our entrance that's consuming my time. surfex is targeted at oily films (motorway use, chassis) and auto-foam on general road use (dusty films in summer times for example) . Both are designed for use with PW's and can be foamed and will produce first class results but there is is a place for both - that's why we make the two of them. The wax used will make little difference to the choice.

All the best

Pete Hamber"

:thumb:

So now I know


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