# Silicones in Zymöl Estate Glazes?



## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

I would be pretty interested in hearing if these Zymöl Estate Glazes are containing any silicones, or if they're 'all natural' ?

I've read a rumour stating that these high-end waxes/glazes are containing silicone. 


For me, it would be a problem using these waxes and products, as I'm sometimes working in a paint shop environment. For some, it might not be a problem:thumb:

It's great that Zymöl are present, as this would help us to discover the truth about this.


Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

Hi mate all Zymol prducts is natural and because of that i like Zymol QD without silicon , you can Check MSDS in zymol site 
http://www.zymolworld.com/msds.aspx :thumb:
I have Zymol waxes Estate Glaze Concours , Glasur , Destiny i think all is natural as i read .

.


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

But don't forget what David Wyllie said about this issue :thumb:


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## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

Well, I can't read from the MSDS if they do or do not contain silicone. 

Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

MAXI-MILAN said:


> Hi mate all Zymol prducts is natural and because of that i like Zymol QD without silicon , you can Check MSDS in zymol site
> http://www.zymolworld.com/msds.aspx :thumb:
> I have Zymol waxes Estate Glaze Concours , Glasur , Destiny i think all is natural as i read .
> 
> .


Interesting quick look there :thumb:
Looking at a brochure in front of me Vintage is advertised at 61% carnauba, yet the msds suggests up to 50% of turps oil not forgetting the other additives.


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## Wozza (Mar 3, 2007)

Excuse my ignorance but what difference does it make to a bodyshop if they do contain silicone ? 

Unless you are gonna throw or spray the stuff about (which I doubt) - or unless the bodyshop doesnt prepare there surfaces correctly then what is the issue ?


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## PremierDetail (Aug 23, 2008)

Avanti said:


> Interesting quick look there :thumb:
> Looking at a brochure in front of me Vintage is advertised at 61% carnauba, yet the msds suggests up to 50% of turps oil not forgetting the other additives.


By weight or by volume? I think the 61% is by volume.



Wozza said:


> Excuse my ignorance but what difference does it make to a bodyshop if they do contain silicone ?
> 
> Unless you are gonna throw or spray the stuff about (which I doubt) - or unless the bodyshop doesnt prepare there surfaces correctly then what is the issue ?


 I know a few shops will not let the stuff in their buildings. Your hands touch a doorknob which touches a gun or something. Its just preventive measures.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

VentiQuattro said:


> By weight or by volume? I think the 61% is by volume.


Yes the brochure says by volume, do you mean the MSDS is quoting diffently?
By the way I'm not reffering to the actual content (I don't give a sh1te about that) I'm reffering to an collection that adds up to more than 100%


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## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

MAXI-MILAN said:


> But don't forget what David Wyllie said about this issue :thumb:


- What did he say? Link please?

Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

Wozza said:


> Excuse my ignorance but what difference does it make to a bodyshop if they do contain silicone ?
> 
> Unless you are gonna throw or spray the stuff about (which I doubt) - or unless the bodyshop doesnt prepare there surfaces correctly then what is the issue ?


silicone on a dash board (been sprayed elsewhere) can effect any paint finish. it floats around everywhere and can cause havoc :lol:


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

Ebbe J said:


> - What did he say? Link please?
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Ebbe


When he talked about the similar issue
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=1995646&postcount=24

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=154424&page=3&highlight=victoria

maybe some company not give you the true information or maybe they can't give MSDS because very secret such as p21s.


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## PremierDetail (Aug 23, 2008)

Avanti said:


> Yes the brochure says by volume, do you mean the MSDS is quoting diffently?
> By the way I'm not reffering to the actual content (I don't give a sh1te about that) I'm reffering to an collection that adds up to more than 100%


 Yea, maybe thats going by weight, and then the brochure is by volume. That was my thought. It makes for a drastically different number.


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## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

MAXI-MILAN said:


> When he talked about the similar issue
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=1995646&postcount=24
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=154424&page=3&highlight=victoria
> ...


- Well, this says nothing about the presence or the opposite of silicone in Zymöl Estate Glazes.

Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## philworrall (Nov 17, 2006)

Ebbe J said:


> - Well, this says nothing about the presence or the opposite of silicone in Zymöl Estate Glazes.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Ebbe


And it say nothing about the presence or the opposite of lots of other things also.

IIRC Zymol actively states it does not use silicones.

IMO

P


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## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

philworrall said:


> And it say nothing about the presence or the opposite of lots of other things also.
> 
> IIRC Zymol actively states it does not use silicones.
> 
> ...


Source? Some of their products say "Silicone Free" etc. but what about those that doesn't?

Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Ebbe J said:


> Source? Some of their products say "Silicone Free" etc. but what about those that doesn't?
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Ebbe


What is the panic about silicone? Any paintshop worth their weight can deal with the general everyday car products


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

I remember a certain Mr Dalton stating that some Zymol waxes contained silicone - whether this was true or not I dont know...

There are good and bad kinds of silicones, Megs Last Touch has it.


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## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

Clark said:


> I remember a certain Mr Dalton stating that some Zymol waxes contained silicone - whether this was true or not I dont know...
> 
> There are good and bad kinds of silicones, Megs Last Touch has it.


- Indeed it does. Last Touch works, but it smears and smears. I still regard it as one of the best clay lubes though..

I didn't want to use the name on here.. Some people tend to act strangely every time it gets mentioned.



Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

Ebbe J said:


> - Well, this says nothing about the presence or the opposite of silicone in Zymöl Estate Glazes.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Ebbe


sorry for that because my english need polish sometime :buffer:
but I mean that companies sometimes do not give you the truth about the product information even there is MSDS available . And chemists keep informations secret.


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## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

MAXI-MILAN said:


> sorry for that because my english need polish sometime :buffer:
> but I mean that companies sometimes do not give you the truth about the product information even there is MSDS available . And chemists keep informations secret.


- Of course  Protecting their formulas. But, if they can tell about the absence of silicones in some of their products, why not all of them?

Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## Racer (Oct 27, 2005)

Clark said:


> I remember a certain Mr Dalton stating that some Zymol waxes contained silicone - whether this was true or not I dont know...
> 
> There are good and bad kinds of silicones, Megs Last Touch has it.


Can Zymol make a point here about this subject ???


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

MSDS is safety data, it is not a disclosure document about all ingredients.

Anyone with access to a Fourier Transform Infra Red Spectrometer can see whether silicones are present in Zymol Estate Glazes.

I would personally take every product as I find it, whoever makes it, and not rely on claims or statements made as to ingredients, naturalness or otherwise. If it works, use it, if it doesn't, don't. Silicones in paste waxes are virtually irrelevant anyway as it is _airborne_ silicones that can cause issues in bodyshops. Silicones applied by paste can be removed with standard paintshop decontaminantion techniques.

Statements made about physical product content that are not independently verified scientifically should be taken as being hypothetical until proven to be correct. There are few rules about labelling or marketing in the car care sector.


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## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

Dodo Factory said:


> MSDS is safety data, it is not a disclosure document about all ingredients.
> 
> Anyone with access to a Fourier Transform Infra Red Spectrometer can see whether silicones are present in Zymol Estate Glazes.
> 
> ...


- Thanks, I was told that using products containing silicones on un-cured paint(it can take several weeks for a paint to fully cure), would make the silicones bond to the paint. Therefore Menzerna and Scholl making "silicone-free" polishes, so that newly made vehicles on the assembly line can be polished without any disadvantages.

It should also be problematic to remove silicones from bare metal surfaces.

Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Hi Ebbe

Production line spray processes and uncured paint are different scenarios to what most detailers come across, but I agree that certain silicones could be undesirable in these scenarios. Please note that many machine polishing compounds contain a lot of silicone even when claiming to be 'bodyshop safe'. They just use bodyshop safe silicones!

All I would say is that

1) modern silicones tend to be far more beneficial than bad in car care applications, generally speaking;

2) silicones are found in the majority of car care products that create shine, lubrication or need to be buffed;

3) most sealants people rave about use silicone polymer technology

and in a wider sense

4) 'naturalness' and high performance car care products do not go together as a general rule; nature has its limitations!

5) due to a lack of regulation, what is stated on a label or as an advertising claim in the car care industry may not be as legitimate or as accurate as you, the customer, may think (trading standards offers little real world protection as some claims can be legitimised through careful calculation or representation of the facts)

6) the only way of telling what is really in a product is to get it independently analysed or to get an accurate answer from the chemist making it; even agents of manufacturers have accidentally misled people on this forum because they do not know the true content of the products they are supplying/selling

Finally, we have analysed a number of products to verify or counter claims that have been made, and our research has given some surprising and interesting answers. But suffice to say, we are not able to disclose them because 1) we are hardly independent, 2) the tests may not be truly representative of products as they are now as recipes change and 3) people would assume that any negative commentary was simply the actions of a competitor 'stirring'. However, we know what we found and we keep this information on file for our own information.

If you ever wanted to properly test a product, the technique would be to find perhaps 3-6 owners of the product in question, all who have bought the product within the last 6 months or so (to ensure it is an accurate representation of the product). Then find an independent university or lab with a Fourier Transform Infra Red Spectrometer and ask them to analyse the sample for silicones. The silicone trace is quite distinctive. You won't be able to find out how to make the product, or how much is in the recipe exactly, but you can see if silicones are present.


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## Miguelgomes (Apr 9, 2009)

the silicone isn´t a dangerous ingredient so they don´t have to put them in the msds  

Of course zymol has silicones, most waxes has, if they didn´t add silicones it would be difficult to apply and remove, and the durability would be very poor. 

Some companies only tell what costumers want to ear.


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

Ok guys , which waxes available in market does not contain silicone ? and what are the cons of silicon ?


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## Miguelgomes (Apr 9, 2009)

MAXI-MILAN said:


> Ok guys , which waxes available in market does not contain silicone ? and what are the cons of silicon ?


Very difficult to say, maybe none...

I think that, if you want a wax without silicone, you would have to make one for your personal use. 
But it would have a poor performance, the natural waxes (carnauba, bees wax, etc) are weaker than the synthetic waxes and silicones, so no really advantage on wax without silicone.

The cons, are only for bodyshops who doesn´t prep properly the cars 

Don´t go blind with carnauba trend, i think the word Silicone is still a Tabu and a very important, underrated and misunderstood ingredient.


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

I asked because i want to know ..Is it safe to use wax contain silicon by hand !


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

By bare hands?

Do you apply shampoo, suncream or hair conditioner with your bare hands? These products often contain silicone 

Of course, it depends on the type of silicone oils (there are many types), the concentrations and your sensitivity to certain materials, but generally there is little issue. Some forms of silicone are very dangerous if inhaled (silicosis) and ingesting them would be a bad idea, but handling them in very small amounts rarely causes problems - only a small amount of silicone is often used to create a big effect.


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## Miguelgomes (Apr 9, 2009)

MAXI-MILAN said:


> I asked because i want to know ..Is it safe to use wax contain silicon by hand !


I would be more concerned about the solvents used in waxes, the solvents will dry your hands (i´ve learned the hard way), despite the silicones giving a soft touch feeling to the skin.


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

Miguelgomes said:


> I would be more concerned about the type of solvents used in waxes, the solvents will dry your hands (i´ve learned the hard way), despite the silicones giving a soft touch feeling to the skin.


i even find some shampoos really dry my hands out


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## Nosbusa (Jun 22, 2009)

I imagine when a wax sweats, it's the silicone doing the sweating and not the carnauba. 

Plus when you buy any carnauba wax , be it a low % or high, the carnauba only last so long on the paint. On a black car with 100 plus degree days, and weeks in the sun, the paint could see temps well above Carnauba's melting point of 180, or so degrees. 

I read a test not long ago, where someone measured a car's black hood on a dealership lot, in only 80 degree weather. The hood was 160 degrees, and this was done in March, which is spring time for this person. You can image the temp of the hood in the hot summer.

So if you're getting several months of durability out of a so called high carnauba wax in the summer, what's exactly protecting the paint, or helping bead?


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## Finerdetails (Apr 30, 2006)

try machining polishing a car which has had numerous Z layers applied previously, then tell me what you think.....


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## Racer (Oct 27, 2005)

Finerdetails said:


> try machining polishing a car which has had numerous Z layers applied previously, then tell me what you think.....


Take it to the jet wash and it strips all the layers in a flash


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

Avanti said:


> Interesting quick look there :thumb:
> Looking at a brochure in front of me Vintage is advertised at 61% carnauba, yet the msds suggests up to 50% of turps oil not forgetting the other additives.


It's not 61% Carnauba, 61% of the WAX CONTENT is carnauba :thumb:


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Nosbusa said:


> I imagine when a wax sweats, it's the silicone doing the sweating and not the carnauba.


Solvents sweat, not silicones.


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## Nosbusa (Jun 22, 2009)

Dodo Factory said:


> Solvents sweat, not silicones.


Thanks for the info..

Question if you don't mind..

If someone's getting several months of durability out of a carnauba wax in the summer, what's exactly protecting the paint?

It can't be the carnauba can it? Considering carnauba melts at 82-86 °C (180-187 °F) degrees. Especially on a black car where temps get above carnauba's melting point. It would have to be a silicone/polymer correct?

The reason why I'm asking, is because if this is true, then all of the long lasting carnauba's on the market have to have some silicone polymers in them..

Fwiw. I've heard that a certain high dollar carnauba wax, is nothing more than a silicone heavy sealant and the amount of carnauba listed for the product was impossible. You may, or may not want to comment, but this is what I was told.


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

I truly don’t believe you can get several months out of a carnauba wax as we know clean unprotected paint will bead water which is why I think many people are confused and alot use qd for top ups I remember on the zaino site it used to say carnauba wax only lasted 3 weeks 

Though I’m sure if you used a magnifying camera on one certain area after every wash could you not see wax diminishing??????

a little extract 

Almost all polishes, waxes, etc. bead water initially. As they are removed, breakdown or dissipated by washing, exposure to sunlight and heat, expansion and contraction, abrasion, abrasion from pollen and other pollutants, the water beading is diminished. This is due to the reduction in surface tension of the polish or wax once it is removed or breaks down. 

If the surface has any protection when there is no water beading is the subject of much controversy. Especially when the polish or wax exhibits good water beading immediately after the initial application. If there is any protection left, how would one know? There are no scientific tests to my knowledge that can determine this. Most consumers and especially wax/polish manufacturers use the reduction in the height, contact angle and diameter of water beading as a gauge to know when to re-apply polish/wax for continued protection. 

If a polish/wax gives water beading initially but then stops beading after washing, part of the polish formula has been removed. If this happens, is there any protection left???? Was the chemical or film that caused the water beading also the protection???? 

If a manufacturer claims that their polish/wax will bead water initially and then magically change to sheeting... I say impossible!!!! Let them prove that the polish/wax film protection initially applied is still there... 

Until a specific test is developed and not some fake, razzle-dazzle test, these questions will remain unanswered and I will continue to use water beading, (height, contact angle and diameter) as a major factor in gauging a polish/wax protection. 

P.S. Please remember that healthy paint will bead water without any polish/wax applied. This confuses many people to believe a polish/wax is lasting longer than they think. 

To test your polish/wax, you must measure the water beading of your paint (height, contact angle and diameter) without any polish/wax applied. Next, measure the water beading of your paint (height, contact angle and diameter) within 24 hours after initially applying your polish/wax. This is your starting point. This will also be the gauge for determining the water beading (longevity, duration and changes) for that specific product. As the water beads start to diminish (get wider and shallower and loses contact angle), the polish/wax and its film protection factor is going away. When the water beading is the same as before you apply your product, the polish/wax and its protection are gone.


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## Super G (Jan 21, 2010)

Just a pointer folks - MSDS does not have to list all components in a product just those which carry risk phrases or poses a hazard to health or environment.

therefor silicones may not appear in MSDS but still be present in product, this applies for other components too.


some one also quered formulations > 100% on MSDS.

they way it works is you enter exact formulation and banding is applied to the MSDS so not to give the game away to competitors.

for example a recipe with 12% IPA may show on msds as 10-20% so if the max banding for each ingredient is added will be greater than 100%

like wise if only one hazardous component will be less than 100%


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Nosbusa said:


> Thanks for the info..
> 
> Question if you don't mind..
> 
> ...


Your conclusions are correct 

99.99999% of 'waxes' on the market, are in fact a mixture of synthetic and natural ingredients, in varying proportions. The labelling and marketing may or may not be a true representation of the actual contents and MSDS is basically meaningless as primarily concerned with flammability of solvents in a wax sense. It is handling and safety info.

However, you are taking the natural characteristics of carnauba too literally. It can be more durable than you realise, especially when in a compound form, and may resist hotter temps quite well, but it certainly does not like being proximate to hot exhausts and brakes, so high-temp resistant polymers etc are better in those applications.


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## Nosbusa (Jun 22, 2009)

Dodo Factory said:


> Your conclusions are correct
> 
> 99.99999% of 'waxes' on the market, are in fact a mixture of synthetic and natural ingredients, in varying proportions. The labelling and marketing may or may not be a true representation of the actual contents and MSDS is basically meaningless as primarily concerned with flammability of solvents in a wax sense. It is handling and safety info.
> 
> However, you are taking the natural characteristics of carnauba too literally. It can be more durable than you realise, especially when in a compound form, and may resist hotter temps quite well, but it certainly does not like being proximate to hot exhausts and brakes, so high-temp resistant polymers etc are better in those applications.


Thanks for the answers to my questions.. :thumb:

It's all very interesting.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Dodo Factory said:


> Your conclusions are correct
> 
> 99.99999% of 'waxes' on the market, are in fact a mixture of synthetic and natural ingredients, in varying proportions. The labelling and marketing may or may not be a true representation of the actual contents and MSDS is basically meaningless as primarily concerned with flammability of solvents in a wax sense. It is handling and safety info.
> 
> However, you are taking the natural characteristics of carnauba too literally. It can be more durable than you realise, especially when in a compound form, and may resist hotter temps quite well, but it certainly does not like being proximate to hot exhausts and brakes, so high-temp resistant polymers etc are better in those applications.


So does this mean Swissvax's claim of thier products don't contain any silicones or petrolium based products. Is a little bit of a lie???


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## Nosbusa (Jun 22, 2009)

IMO. I would say any carnauba product that last comparable to a sealant, has sealant products in it. 

So to answer your question yes. 

Can you imagine if it came out that high priced carnauba waxes were nothing more than a small amount of carnauba, but loaded with silicone/polymers? 

There would go mystique about their products.. Again JMO

I take everything about products with a grain of salt.. as the old saying goes. 

I know in my climate there's no way a "carnauba only" based product would last a week (if that) in the hot summer on my black car, much less 4-6 months like some see. We see hot temps, and acid rain occasionally.


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## Finerdetails (Apr 30, 2006)

GoodFella33 said:


> I truly don't believe you can get several months out of a carnauba wax as we know clean unprotected paint will bead water which is why I think many people are confused and alot use qd for top ups I remember on the zaino site it used to say carnauba wax only lasted 3 weeks
> 
> Though I'm sure if you used a magnifying camera on one certain area after every wash could you not see wax diminishing??????
> 
> ...


which is what I did in my wax test years ago and some slated me for it! lol


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

nick_mcuk said:


> So does this mean Swissvax's claim of thier products don't contain any silicones or petrolium based products. Is a little bit of a lie???


Ask Swissvax.

We have analysed some of their waxes and know what is in them from a silicone/no silicone perspective, but we won't comment on other manufacturer's claims unless it becomes a legal matter. However, we do check these things out occasionally to ensure we aren't missing a trick, ie some ingredient or technique.

I certainly would NOT be concerned if a product has silicones or synthetic ingredients in; it's probably what is giving the product the performance in the first place 

Over-analysing products never really helps customers as it creates a lot of myth and confusion and few can define or identify what is really in the product (FTIR spectrometers cost 5k-25k!). However, a healthy distrust of labels and marketing claims and a reliance on what you see and experience yourself will always be healthy. The big problem then is accurately *interpreting* what you are seeing. For example, a well protected but dirty car won't bead. But a non-protected highly polished car will. So some product knowledge and theory is essential.

Another example: we have seen instances of people removing fillers on uncorrected paintwork (which they had thought was fully corrected) and then claiming that a product has scratched the panel, when in fact solvents in the product have simply removed other products on the surface. This is the problem with 'internet wisdom'. It is easy to jump to the wrong conclusions, so an open mind is needed at all times.


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

Finerdetails said:


> which is what I did in my wax test years ago and some slated me for it! lol


I remember that well and followed it with interest and thx on the thread 
I think only reason was slated was wasn't most scientific of tests but you're a busy man and the results was certainly interesting I hold my hands up and will say I prefer sealants over waxes

it's rare on any test you see to be followed up week in week out with just a wash of ph natural shampoo with no wax etc in it and no top ups at all and pictured every time its washed when money allows I would like to get a magnifying camera hooked up to my laptop and see how wax/sealants degrade on the surface

like on this thread

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=140038


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## Racer (Oct 27, 2005)

Why Zymol or Swissvax don´t state anyhting about this...??


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## feslope (Aug 16, 2009)

Has anyone even considered calling Zymol and asking them? If Zymol says their estate glazes are all natural and do not contain silicones should we automatically assume they are lying?


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

If they make a statement it is relatively simple to prove whether or not they are telling the truth because silicone is an easily identified 'spike' on an FTIR trace.

If someone wants to get a statement from an official representative I'm sure we can crank the FTIR machine into action with an independently sourced and verified sample.


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## Racer (Oct 27, 2005)

Dodo Factory said:


> If they make a statement it is relatively simple to prove whether or not they are telling the truth because silicone is an easily identified 'spike' on an FTIR trace.
> 
> If someone wants to get a statement from an official representative I'm sure we can crank the FTIR machine into action with an independently sourced and verified sample.


So , Zymol and Swissvax are present here , they can and i think should answer this question


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## feslope (Aug 16, 2009)

Dodo Factory said:


> If someone wants to get a statement from an official representative I'm sure we can crank the FTIR machine into action with an independently sourced and verified sample.


Ok, here it is, per Crystal Smith head of CS for Zymol US. Simply stated she informs me that no Zymol products from their least expensive cleaner wax's all the way up to Royale contain any form of petroleum distillates or silicones. She further told me that they soften their carnauba with Montan oil rather than use a petrol product. Crystal also said she had not heard from Becky for awhile and thought she may be on leave or vacation at this time.

P.S. PJ and Michelle. It was great meeting you at Detail Fest. I will be back in Michigan next week and am anxious to try out my one of only two bottles of authentic "Red Mist" in the US.:thumb:


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Well please get that in writing from Crystal on headed note paper or with an email header and scan or pdf it to us at Dodo Juice as that is 'very interesting' information and we can do quite a lot with it :thumb::lol:

I'll say hi to pj for you - he enjoyed Detail Fest


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

feslope said:


> they soften their carnauba with Montan oil rather than use a petrol product. :


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## Nosbusa (Jun 22, 2009)

It's really amazing that Zymol waxes are able to compete with products like Autoglym HD, and Collinite for longevity according to a wax test on this board a year, or so ago.

Especially considering Zymol only uses carnuaba, propolis, Montan oil & Cantaloupe oil. 

While the HD wax (stated on their own site) has a polymers, carnauba and microcrystalline waxes, combined with solid saturated hydrocarbons and oils. 

Collinite waxes I imagine are similar to the HD wax in ingredients. 

I have some Zymol products, (great waxes) but in no way shape or form do I believe that their waxes are 100% free from amino functional silicones (ie 'polymers).

If Zymol were to agree to it, (without legal challenge) one person here could do the spin test, and then release the results of it. Or just release the results of a previous spin test. LOL


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

We have some fantastic data but it does need to be independent. So the tests would need to be done again.

Even one of the MSDS mentions mineral spirits. And I'm chuckling away with the Doctor re Montan Oil


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## Miguelgomes (Apr 9, 2009)

It must be pretty rare, that montan oil.....


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## feslope (Aug 16, 2009)

Dodo Factory said:


> Well please get that in writing from Crystal on headed note paper or with an email header and scan or pdf it to us at Dodo Juice as that is 'very interesting' information and we can do quite a lot with it :thumb::lol:
> 
> I'll say hi to pj for you - he enjoyed Detail Fest


Ok, I asked. Zymol Corporate will not deal with forums however, they are there to answer questions about their products in a straightforward honest manner. I did mention Montan oil and was told it is derived from a South American Plant.

I own Vintage and Royale and am satisfied that their labeling states all of their ingredients and does not contain any Petrol or Silicone products. I also own Supernatural and consider it an outstanding product and at such time I aquire the wood container I will display it among my others.

Dodo made a real good showing at Detail Fest this year. Looking forward to seeing you again next year.:car:


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

OK, say no more, buddy. We don't want it to seem like a witch-hunt or something and we do appreciate you asking the questions 

Send me an email (should be on the Dodo card if you got one from pj) and I will fill you in off forum if you should ever feel curious about the issue.


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## Miguelgomes (Apr 9, 2009)

A wax without silicones (zymol), lasting the same has a standart long lasting wax (hybrid)??!....


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