# Lewis Hamilton, has he made a massive error



## Hondafan1 (Jul 26, 2013)

Do you think Lewis Hamilton played a dirty trick, as Vettel is accusing him of, or just completely got his race strategy wrong and could have disguised the slowing down ploy for others to catch and overtake Rosberg? 

Also, what punishment do you think Mercedes will now hit Hamilton with? Suspension, a fine or tearing up his contract for disobeying team orders - twice.

Its a hot topic at the moment, has Lewis gotten too big for his boots?

Not sure if Lewis has played into Mercedes hands and made it easier for them to dump him as he is no longer a World Champion and maybe Verstappen could be given Lewis's seat.?


----------



## scuba-phil (Feb 18, 2016)

i think it was grown up thing from him. iv been quick in the past to call him childish but i thought he showed a calm maturity and concentrated on what was best for him. 

Id be surprised if he got anything more than a smacked wrist as at the end of the day merc wont want to let go a world class driver and let him into another teams arms


----------



## danwel (Feb 18, 2007)

It was the right things for Hamilton to do if he had any chance of winning the championship. Mercedes as a team won't have liked it but not a lot they could do after the second round of pitstops.
He will get a slap on the wrists and that will be the end of it


----------



## Hondafan1 (Jul 26, 2013)

I think he is an amazing talent but i think Mercedes will have to do something as he ignored 2 requests to speed up, i think it might be a face saving exercise and i think Lewis in another team may not see him World Champion for 2017, which other team could he go to???

I think Mercedes could easily put a number of drivers in his seat and they could fight for 2017 World Champion

In my initial post my thoughts were maybe he could have hidden the plan better. I think he had no choice if he wanted to keep his title 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Nothing will/should happen. We've seen it all before with Prost, vettel, Schumacher etc with crashes, slowing on quali laps etc. He did what needed to be done without putting Rosberg in danger.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Mercedes do need to split them up. They can't be trusted to share the same track with each other.


----------



## Smithy225 (Dec 29, 2015)

For me I would have done exactly the same in his position. He was put in that position by his own team having technical failures throughout the year and he had a chance to make that right. At the end of the day if these hadn't happened throughout the season he would have been top of that table anyway! 

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

I don't watch F1 anymore. I seem to remember the days when the fastest round the track won, or at least i think that was the case, and everyone just tried their hardest.


----------



## Hondafan1 (Jul 26, 2013)

Im waiting to see the fall out as i think Mercedes will want to sort this ASAP


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RD55 DUN (Dec 30, 2008)

Nothing will happen.

The team got the win.

It was 2 racing drivers fighting for the WDC. The team won the constructors championship a number of races ago so should have let the 2 drivers fight it out without intervening; i highly doubt any of them would have lost the race.

Hamilton only had the final stint to slow Rosberg down and hope for him to get passed.

Rosberg deserved the WDC, although he never beat Hamilton in a straight fight, he was consistent and calm over the season.


----------



## r18jsh (Nov 15, 2014)

Kerr said:


> Mercedes do need to split them up. They can't be trusted to share the same track with each other.


Even if they are split up and one goes to another team they will still be on the track together.

I don't think he did anything wrong, he did what he needed to do for a chance of the championship.

To be honest what he did made it far more interesting race rather than like he said just sitting out in front doing nothing.

I think a slap on the wrist from Mercedes and that will be the end of it.


----------



## Hondafan1 (Jul 26, 2013)

I agree with the sentiments shown here and although Rosberg deserved to win for consistency i think overall Lewis deserved to win for the fight back he shown over technical breakdowns and the number DNFs he had to endure.

There is also the conspiracy theory surfacing thats maybe Mercedes wanted a home grown driver to win in their car. There are several internet posts on this.

But there is also Wolff's reaction to Hamilton, storm in a tea cup maybe??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

He may have talent, but he's the most jumped up arrogant twunt on the track. Nothing goes his way, he throws the toys out. If you or me disobeyed an order, not once, but twice, we'd be out on our ear.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

r18jsh said:


> Even if they are split up and one goes to another team they will still be on the track together.
> 
> I don't think he did anything wrong, he did what he needed to do for a chance of the championship.
> 
> ...


If they are in different cars that would solve the issue. The only rival to Mercedes winning the championship, and every other race barring trouble, is the other Mercedes driver. They are miles ahead of anyone else.

That's what he did need to do to win the championship, but firstly he's in a team, and secondly he never carried out his manager's instructions. Go against your manager at work or in any sport and you can expect a backlash. Undermining your superiors is never going to end well.

If a footballer never followed his manager's instructions, did his own thing, then petulantly answered back he'd be out of the team.

Remember the team didn't ask Lewis to let another driver passed. They asked him to drive at a pace he was capable of to win the race. It's perfectly understandable how a manager doesn't want a member of his team forced to finish in a worse position than necessary, especially not by his teammate.

Lewis has too much history of acting like a complete brat and he's been especially bad this year. He's already questioned the integrity of the Mercedes team suggesting they sabotaged his cars. He's a good driver and a step up from Rosberg. He's a horrible little man though.

His bosses can't be happy with his conduct this year. He doesn't appear happy either with his comments and behaviour.

It's time for him to go. His relationship with Rosberg is toxic and Mercedes can't trust him either.


----------



## slim_boy_fat (Jun 23, 2006)

It's all good for the TV ratings etc, remember there's no such thing as bad publicity.

I don't suppose the sponsors are unhappy.


----------



## Mr Kirk (Sep 26, 2016)

He didn't do anything wrong. If I was in his shoes I would have slowed down more. Win at all costs and he shouldn't be ashamed of that.


----------



## Hondafan1 (Jul 26, 2013)

Think this post is showing a Marmite moment for Lewis Hamilton. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Hondafan1 said:


> Think this post is showing a Marmite moment for Lewis Hamilton.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I like him as a driver, he's a better driver than Rosberg. Way I see this year hr was beaten to the championship by his car failures not by Rosberg. As a person though I don't like him, he can't cope when he's not winning and sulks more than my kids when the internet is off!


----------



## TomiboyC (Apr 16, 2008)

It's a competitive sport, the minute the constructors championship is won then the team need to step back and let the drivers fight it out amongst themselves with no interference. Not one driver in that situation would have done differently regardless of what they say and if they did then they don't deserve to line up on the grid... that's my tuppence worth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uggski (Jun 29, 2016)

Seem to remember Rosberg not moving over for Hamilton last year despite being asked more than once. Payback is a *****!

As for ego, they all have it. They would not be top of their sport if they didn't.


----------



## Mikesphotaes (Jul 24, 2016)

The only person who did anything wrong was whoever authorised the two hurry-up messages!

Mercedes have been at pains to point out that their drivers are free to race.


----------



## slapshot (Jul 29, 2007)

The really sad thing is, neither Ferrari or Red Bull could get close to the Mercs even when they were crawling round!

Pathetic, and has been for 3 years.


----------



## Hondafan1 (Jul 26, 2013)

Thats what im thinking, Verstappen is the future of F1 and if Hamilton's £30M contract is ripped up i think Red Bull would struggle yo keep him and he could end up the 2017 World Champion. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Mikesphotaes said:


> The only person who did anything wrong was whoever authorised the two hurry-up messages!
> 
> Mercedes have been at pains to point out that their drivers are free to race.


There's a big difference between free to race and intentionally slowing down your teammate and backing him into other traffic.


----------



## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Can't remember the last time I watched Formula 1. Just seems to be wittering about 1/10th of a second and politics.
I'll stick to girls running around a football pitch.


----------



## funkydunk (Aug 16, 2016)

I don't like Hamilton but I like what he did I also watch the moto GP and support races. I remember a few years ago when simoncelli had to win the race and espargaro finish 14th. It was insane.


----------



## Hondafan1 (Jul 26, 2013)

OK, how about another spin to this post:

Rita Ora

Or

Nicole Scherzinger ???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kyle 86 (Jun 15, 2013)

Hondafan1 said:


> OK, how about another spin to this post:
> 
> Rita Ora
> 
> ...


Nicole for me

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## Hondafan1 (Jul 26, 2013)

Me too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ravinder (Jul 24, 2009)

Rita? Urgh.


----------



## Mikesphotaes (Jul 24, 2016)

Kerr said:


> There's a big difference between free to race and intentionally slowing down your teammate and backing him into other traffic.


Nope, all part of racing!


----------



## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

Mikesphotaes said:


> Nope, all part of racing!


Exactly that.
If it was good enough for Schumacher / prost etc etc back in the day then it's good enough for Hamilton now. Any driver would of done the same and so would everyone on this site reading this

I don't believe Hamilton is punching above his weight (he's one of the top f1 drivers out there at the moment)
After seeing some of nico driving this year it should of been him with punishments, we've had to move on from those and this should be no different, there was still a championship at stake and to be told to speed up as vettel will win the race is a ******** excuse for, you might cost nico his *** title.
The last race of the reason and I loved it, those last laps where some of the most tense this year. That's what the racing is about, I don't want to see vettel type drives where he clears off.

The Mercedes team needs sorting out, some of their orders have been wrong all season long


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Mikesphotaes said:


> Nope, all part of racing!


So if it's all part of racing, why do so many knowledgeable people have an issue with it?

Defending your position is part of racing, going the fastest to win the race is racing. Driving artificially slow to back up your teammate into other racers is not something I would consider part of racing.

Have you seen anything like it before?


----------



## Hondafan1 (Jul 26, 2013)

Both last points well made but the last 3 seasons have turned F1 on its head and has seen some great edge of the seat viewing. Tempers flaring, team mates arguing and clear needle between teams too.

In fact isn't this reminiscent of Niki Lauda and James Hunt era, hang on isn't Lauda still part of this rivalry???? Maybe there is something going on behind the scenes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Can't stand the guy. ****y, pompous git.


----------



## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

Kerr said:


> So if it's all part of racing, why do so many knowledgeable people have an issue with it?
> 
> Defending your position is part of racing, going the fastest to win the race is racing. Driving artificially slow to back up your teammate into other racers is not something I would consider part of racing.
> 
> Have you seen anything like it before?


Yes, it's happened before and will no doubt happen again. I seem to remember Prost doing it to Arnoux at Dijon in 79 before clearing off to win by a country mile while Arnoux fought it out with Villeneuve.

Didn't montoya do it once at Williams too?

Team mates have used dodgy tactics against each other for years and will continue to do so for years and not just in F1. Rossi / Lorenzo pit wall for example, or Sheene / Hennen over Campagnolo wheels for another example. In most cases it's a driver seeking an edge over a faster team mate.


----------



## Bulkhead (Oct 17, 2007)

I think Hamilton would have been better off driving away into the distance. He would win the race and at the same time let everyone know that he is the superior driver. By trying to engineer a favorable result, he has made Rosberg look like the victim and given his World Championship title more legitimacy. I think everyone acknowledges that Hamilton is faster than Rosberg, but the fastest driver does not always win the title. You need to be among the fastest drivers, have the best car and have luck on your side. Rosberg had all three and Hamilton lacked the latter. He has been unsporting in his behaviour and possibly jeopardised his relationship with Mercedes. Schumacher and Vettel will forever be tarnished by their actions in trying to win at any cost. I hope Hamilton doesn't suffer the same fate.


----------



## wylie coyote (Jul 15, 2007)

Why do so many people have the view that no one anticipated this? I bet Rosberg and his team did, so why didn't Mercedes management? If they didn't then they're incompetent!! It was one of two courses of action open to him if he wanted to become world champion, do what he did or hope Rosberg crashed or was crashed into. Rosberg doesn't (at least on the surface) seem too fazed by it......


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

muzzer said:


> Yes, it's happened before and will no doubt happen again. I seem to remember Prost doing it to Arnoux at Dijon in 79 before clearing off to win by a country mile while Arnoux fought it out with Villeneuve.
> 
> Didn't montoya do it once at Williams too?
> 
> Team mates have used dodgy tactics against each other for years and will continue to do so for years and not just in F1. Rossi / Lorenzo pit wall for example, or Sheene / Hennen over Campagnolo wheels for another example. In most cases it's a driver seeking an edge over a faster team mate.


You're going back before my time, but Prost didn't start F1 until 1980.

There is always racing rivalry and drivers always want to beat their teammate. Beating him fair and square is one thing, trying to back him into cars much slower is another.

I've not found the article yet, but apparently Hamilton was asked if he would do that prior to the race. He said he wouldn't as he knew what it meant. Lewis talked about a fair fight.

I don't follow motorbike racing at all.

In all my years of being into motorsport I genuinely can't remember of anyone doing what Hamilton done. Doing what he done, and totally against his team's demands and best interests is out of order.

If that kind of practice became standard practice motorsport would be a worse place for it. You should win on being the best, not by using dirty tactics.


----------



## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

I don't think he did anything wrong at all. He certainly didn't do what the idiots on channel 4 suggested which was hitting Rosberg at turn one????? I think He did what any real racer would do and I think the team have shown favoritism towards Rosberg this year. They gave him Lewis's mechanics and a 100% reliable car. I think throughout the season while Hamilton has sometimes shown his disappointment in interviews hes also talked about positives and coming back stronger. He is a champion and in my eyes will be again if he is given a fair chance. I think the team asking him to speed up was actually disrespectful to Lewis. They had already won the team championship and one of their guys was going to win the drivers title so why the need to get involved at all? In retrospect all this is insignificant as again in my option there is no way Vettel would have risked compromising Rosberg unless he could have overtaken both of them and even if that would have happened there was no time for Max to get involved. 

I have to say I also don't get all the hate for Hamilton by the channel 4 presenters about his last interview. He has every right not to agree when asked do you think the best man won because he didn't. Lewis is the faster driver, Rosberg got lucky partly due to the technical issues and partly due to Hamilton's poor starts. That said you have to admire Rosberg for grinding out the result as he still had to get those wins and podiums throughout the year.


----------



## pencil (Feb 14, 2007)

Kerr said:


> You're going back before my time, but Prost didn't start F1 until 1980.
> 
> There is always racing rivalry and drivers always want to beat their teammate. Beating him fair and square is one thing, trying to back him into cars much slower is another.
> 
> ...


Except he wouldn't have won by being the best.

He's have won the race but the championship would have gone if he finished 6 seconds or 60 seconds up the road from Rosberg.

I'm not a Hamilton fan - I don't like his attitude - but I find nothing wrong in what he did. He's a winner and winners think how to win, not how to lose in glory.

If Mercedes needed a one-two to seal the Constructors or something then he'd have had to tow the line but that was all sewn up and it was him or Rosberg for the Driver's.

I see it as no different to Massa giving up the Brazil win for Kimi in 2007 so he could win the title. It's using the race to your advantage.

He broke no rules and endangered no-one so, frankly, I see nothing 'dirty' about it at all.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

pencil said:


> Except he wouldn't have won by being the best.
> 
> He's have won the race but the championship would have gone if he finished 6 seconds or 60 seconds up the road from Rosberg.
> 
> ...


There are rules against impeding other drivers.

Rules were introduced to stop drivers defending their position too greatly, or blocking.

Blue flags were also introduced to stop slower drivers impeding faster drivers.

A lot or rules are open to interpretation and sporting conduct covers many other ambiguous aspects.

How can you compare one teammate assisting another teammate with the approval of his team, against another driver impeding his teammate against the team's instruction and to the detriment of the team? Two totally different scenarios. Ferrari still finished 1-2 that day. The team still scored maximum team points. That wasn't Hamilton's intention.


----------



## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Dunno about Bad Mistake

The race was so boring it was untrue. The commentators trying to make it sound exciting towards the end was cringe worthy.

Its lost all its racing credentials now.... I think Senna/Prost/Mansell would of done much more than just slow up a bit.... Brake Check son Brake Check.

The Mercs are so much faster that even on better tyres etc Vettel was nowhere near catching or trying to pass... as for Verstappen getting close and passing... Haha Hamilton would of had to remove his engine and pedal round for him to close the gap.

F1... Bore off.


----------



## shycho (Sep 7, 2010)

Kerr said:


> How can you compare one teammate assisting another teammate with the approval of his team, against another driver impeding his teammate against the team's instruction and to the detriment of the team? Two totally different scenarios. Ferrari still finished 1-2 that day. The team still scored maximum team points. That wasn't Hamilton's intention.


How can you say people should just race, and let the best man win, but then also justify a team letting the 2nd best racer that day win a race. 
Surely by your logic Massa should have just raced over the finish line and cost Kimi the title, because Massa was the better driver that day.


----------



## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Kerr said:


> So if it's all part of racing, why do so many knowledgeable people have an issue with it?
> 
> Defending your position is part of racing, going the fastest to win the race is racing. Driving artificially slow to back up your teammate into other racers is not something I would consider part of racing.
> 
> Have you seen anything like it before?


They all used to do it under the safety car... slow down and cause cars to bunch up to give themselves an advantage and make it harder for the group behind.

Its tactics, Lewis's tactics worked for him to win the race.... but not the championship. Right or wrong he controls the pace if he is in the lead. The team should not have a say in trying to make a driver go faster when he is leading a race.

The Team should be doing their job... Making sure they are ready at pitstops, delivering a reliable car, making a race winning car.

The Driver should be trying to win using any tactics and race skills he has within the F1 rules and always brush close to breaking the rules. To stay safely within those rules will not make headlines for you or your team. Its all about the headlines.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

shycho said:


> How can you say people should just race, and let the best man win, but then also justify a team letting the 2nd best racer that day win a race.
> Surely by your logic Massa should have just raced over the finish line and cost Kimi the title, because Massa was the better driver that day.


I don't have any issues with a teammate assisting a teammate. Isn't that the entire point of a team?

However obviously the rules doesn't allow it anymore anyway.


----------



## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

Am I missing the point, why was there a need for the top guys at Merc to come on the radio and tell Hamilton to speed up? There was no way that any car other than a merc would win so I can only conclude that they wanted rosberg to get the title. In my opinion merc did everything they could to ensure this happened.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

robertdon777 said:


> They all used to do it under the safety car... slow down and cause cars to bunch up to give themselves an advantage and make it harder for the group behind.
> 
> Its tactics, Lewis's tactics worked for him to win the race.... but not the championship. Right or wrong he controls the pace if he is in the lead. The team should not have a say in trying to make a driver go faster when he is leading a race.
> 
> ...


That's the procedure for a restart. It isn't under race procedure and it is only for a short distance. The leader is also trying to get away from everyone else, not delay them.



tmitch45 said:


> Am I missing the point, why was there a need for the top guys at Merc to come on the radio and tell Hamilton to speed up? There was no way that any car other than a merc would win so I can only conclude that they wanted rosberg to get the title. In my opinion merc did everything they could to ensure this happened.


Hamilton was slowing Rosberg down in the hope that Vettel and Verstappen would catch and pass Rosberg.

Mercedes wanted to see both their drivers do as well as possible for team points and finish first and second. Hamilton was trying to force Rosberg down the field.

There was always the danger that having 4 cars fighting for space there could have been an incident.

It's not actually favoritism for Rosberg, it's actually common sense from a team's point of view.


----------



## slim_boy_fat (Jun 23, 2006)

...."Mercedes wanted to see both their drivers do as well as possible for team points".....

Team points were academic, the Constructors' Championship had been decided long[ish] before the final race.


----------



## Hondafan1 (Jul 26, 2013)

The media have jumped all over this and there is a new headline saying that Hamilton could be sacked, typical media tactics


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Roogar (Oct 28, 2016)

How can you knock a man for trying all he can within the rules to win, he's a born winner! 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Hondafan1 said:


> The media have jumped all over this and there is a new headline saying that Hamilton could be sacked, typical media tactics
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you were at work and you refused to carry out a reasonable request by your boss, what would happen?

If your boss then went to his boss who then further had to instruct you, and you still refused, what would happen?

I'm sure if most people publicly disregarded fair instructions, and undermined their boss, they would face disciplinary action.

Hamilton's position in the Mercedes team in untenable in my opinion.

He already accused the team of cheating earlier in the season.

No manager wants a man like that in their team.


----------



## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

Roogar said:


> How can you knock a man for trying all he can within the rules to win, he's a born winner!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


More like he's a born arrogant individual, who, continually throws his toys out the pram when nothing goes his way. Everything is everybody's else's fault when he's concerned .

As Crofty said on Sky during the race, there is no 'I' in Team, but there is a 'ME'.


----------



## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Kerr said:


> That's the procedure for a restart. It isn't under race procedure and it is only for a short distance. The leader is also trying to get away from everyone else, not delay them.


I would disagree, I would say after a safety car start the one option the driver is doing is trying to slow/delay the rest down by getting them into a close race with each other whilst he drives into fresh clear air.

Its all racing...everyman for himself, forget all this TEAM business, no good for the sport or Viewing.


----------



## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

Kerr said:


> That's the procedure for a restart. It isn't under race procedure and it is only for a short distance. The leader is also trying to get away from everyone else, not delay them.
> 
> Hamilton was slowing Rosberg down in the hope that Vettel and Verstappen would catch and pass Rosberg.
> 
> ...


I still cannot see it mate. I know exactly what and why Hamilton did what he did but again why??? The constructors title was safe and even if both Hamilton and Rosberg didn't finish they still would of had a driver with the drivers championship as well. Please for goodness sake just let them race!! If poor little Rosberg is in danger of been passed he needs to man up and defend and if Hamilton is driving too slow then pass him or is that not allowed either??? This sport is really in danger of becoming even more sterile than it is already!


----------



## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

neilos said:


> More like he's a born arrogant individual, who, continually throws his toys out the pram when nothing goes his way. Everything is everybody's else's fault when he's concerned .
> 
> As Crofty said on Sky during the race, there is no 'I' in Team, but there is a 'ME'.


I cannot agree with that mate! Hamilton has had way worse luck this season-Fact. Had his engine not blown up he would have won the title with some ease. Something has gone on at Merc otherwise why give Rosberg, all of Hamiltons mechanics? Rosberg was at fault for taking both drivers out at Austria.

Lets just think about what we would have done in Hamiltons situation. I know I would have done everything legal to win the championship! I would have backed Rosberg into the pack and I'd have told the team to get stuffed when they asked me to speed up. Mercedes have clearly protected Rosberg this season and done everything possible to ensure he could succeed.


----------



## Mikesphotaes (Jul 24, 2016)

Kerr said:


> I don't have any issues with a teammate assisting a teammate. Isn't that the entire point of a team?
> 
> However obviously the rules doesn't allow it anymore anyway.


What rules are them then?


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Mikesphotaes said:


> What rules are them then?


The FIA had banned team orders due to the races being managed, but then removed them as teams were finding other loopholes.

I'll edit my post.

There is still a rule in place that teams can be charged with disrepute.


----------



## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Kerr said:


> If you were at work and you refused to carry out a reasonable request by your boss, what would happen?
> 
> If your boss then went to his boss who then further had to instruct you, and you still refused, what would happen?
> 
> ...


Perfect example. Would a football manager play and keep a player under contract if he asked said player to do a specific role for the team and the player said 'no' or went on the pitch with instructions and completely disregarded them? Hamilton should be disciplined, purely for being an arrogant little *****


----------



## evoke (Oct 6, 2007)

True racing drivers want to win the WDC. Hamilton had no other choices open to him. The most successful people, in terms of wealth, tend to be the most ruthless in terms of looking after number one. That's how people become successful, in general (and in my humble opinion).

Hamilton is a fantastic racing driver and I've supported him since he entered F1. However, he's become a commercial commodity and lacks raw human emotion.

Kudos to Rosberg for winning the WDC. On balance he's deserved it this year. What really touched me was how he dedicated the title to his wife and son. He's shown a lot of raw emotion - a human touch that will probably win him many more fans.

Anyway, I'm finding that Max Verstappen is far more down-to-earth, genuine and exciting to watch and is probably going to me my favourite driver next season.


----------



## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

Brian1612 said:


> Perfect example. Would a football manager play and keep a player under contract if he asked said player to do a specific role for the team and the player said 'no' or went on the pitch with instructions and completely disregarded them? Hamilton should be disciplined, purely for being an arrogant little *****


Unfortunately that is a really different scenario as that player cannot win the league by himself unlike in F1!?!?


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

tmitch45 said:


> Unfortunately that is a really different scenario as that player cannot win the league by himself unlike in F1!?!?


An F1 driver can't win himself either. Mercedes F1 team has around 800 employees which is around the same as Man Utd.

The only reason Rosberg won the title is Mercedes gave him and Hamilton a car far superior to every other team. It doesn't matter who drives the Mercedes cars they would always finish 1-2 as they are so vastly superior to anything else on the grid.

On the other side Alonso is one of the best drivers on the grid and is let down by his team.

Although a driver has significant input, if the team around him isn't good, he won't win either.


----------



## st1965 (Apr 21, 2016)

As much as i think hamilton is a very good driver he lets himself down BADLY with his very bad and arrogant attitude, since getting rid of his dad as his manager he has got progressivly worse ( especialy this year ) and as already been said...when things go his way hes all happy smiley, but when it doesnt hes like a spoilt child who cant get his own way !...these people are in the public eye and are role models to young people who aspire to be like them ...so he seriously needs to grow up and act like an adult !!


----------



## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

As far as I was aware there were two people that could become champions in that race. Christian Horner said before the race that's what Lewis should do as it was his best bet of winning. Either way Mercedes would have a world champion driver at the end of the race. It was clear they wanted rosberg as champion, otherwise they would of just let them race.


----------



## Hondafan1 (Jul 26, 2013)

Im going to throw a cat amongst the pigeons now,

Mercedes get rid on Hamilton and give his seat to Vettel, Mercedes with two German drivers with a guarantee of a German world champion each year for the next 4-5 years


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

Vettel would win as he's a better driver than rosberg. If mcclaren were doing better I think he would go back now jensons retired. I can see Hamilton at Ferrari


----------



## Hondafan1 (Jul 26, 2013)

Do you know what, i was thinking that as i was typing Vettel going to Mercedes. Maybe a swap for Vettel


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mikesphotaes (Jul 24, 2016)

Hondafan1 said:


> Im going to throw a cat amongst the pigeons now,
> 
> Mercedes get rid on Hamilton and give his seat to Vettel, Mercedes with two German drivers with a guarantee of a German world champion each year for the next 4-5 years
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Totally different game next year!


----------



## Hondafan1 (Jul 26, 2013)

I think there may be a new / revised line up for Mercedes next season


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Kerr said:


> Alonso is one of the best drivers on the grid and is let down by his team.


This ^ :thumb:


----------



## Jonnybbad (Jun 12, 2013)

For me rosberg's championship is real coz he only won coz the team manipulated events to ensure Lewis didn't score the points needed I mean why did he have to have Lewis mechanics why did Lewis have dnf and rosie not 

Yes Lewis is a spoilt child when things don't go his way but that for me just shows that he's a winner and second best is just not good enough 

Rosberg for me is just boring I know who I'd rather watch 

I think the money has gone to Lewis head which in turn has turned him somewhat arrogant 

Verstappen ain't going no where red bull know he's a future world champion and an out an out racer which he has proved on more than one occasion this year that boy is the next Lewis Hamilton he for me has added the excitement which f1 needs 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


----------



## Wilco (Apr 22, 2010)

Hondafan1 said:


> OK, how about another spin to this post:
> 
> Rita Ora
> 
> ...


----------



## B8sy86 (Jan 10, 2015)

Very sad how many people think the guy is a **** when none of us have ever met him or spoken to him, I would hate to think someone thinks that of me because I have a strong desire to win and show my heart on my sleeve when things aren't going my way. I'm also the kind of person that shows respect to every individual I meet and is polite to everyone I ever speak to. 

I was lucky enough to go to Bahrain grand prix this year where I got speaking to a family friend who has been a marshal there for a few years. He told me of the time he was Sat in the shade and Hamilton was having a bad weekend, he came out of the back of the pits with his engineer, told him something and walked over to the marshal and Sat down with him in the shade, he stayed there for about 20 mins talking to the marshal asking all about his family and life showing genuine interest, not once did he want to talk about himself, the marshal realised he just wanted a normal conversation to clear his mind a little before he had to get back to work. He was hugely polite and friendly the whole time. That doesn't sound like a **** to me.

I would also add he always one of the first to arrive for autographs and one of the last to the leave. He created the trend of thanking the fans every race he is on the podium and is still the only driver to do that religiously. Stop expecting a robot with no emotions on the grid.

If messi or ronaldo ignored a directive from their managers do you truly believe they would be benched? I don't.

Why sack a 3 time world champion who is still at the top of his game, had his additional engine not have blown up and had they not of redesigned the clutch paddle to help Rosberg who was having worse starts last year then this season would have ended 3 or 4 races ago. They had to modify Hamilton's clutch paddle 3 races ago. 

I got bullied and called a **** back in school days because I Had a southern accent in a north west school, no other reason than that.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

B8sy86 said:


> Very sad how many people think the guy is a **** when none of us have ever met him or spoken to him, I would hate to think someone thinks that of me because I have a strong desire to win and show my heart on my sleeve when things aren't going my way. I'm also the kind of person that shows respect to every individual I meet and is polite to everyone I ever speak to.
> 
> I was lucky enough to go to Bahrain grand prix this year where I got speaking to a family friend who has been a marshal there for a few years. He told me of the time he was Sat in the shade and Hamilton was having a bad weekend, he came out of the back of the pits with his engineer, told him something and walked over to the marshal and Sat down with him in the shade, he stayed there for about 20 mins talking to the marshal asking all about his family and life showing genuine interest, not once did he want to talk about himself, the marshal realised he just wanted a normal conversation to clear his mind a little before he had to get back to work. He was hugely polite and friendly the whole time. That doesn't sound like a **** to me.
> 
> ...


You don't need to know him personally to express an opinion that the way he conducts himself and many things he says make him sound bad. It's impossible to argue otherwise in my opinion.

Messi is a team player. Ronaldo is a bit more single minded but he still contributes to the team. Messi and Ronaldo are the absolute elite in football. Hamilton isn't in the same league as those two within motorsport. One thing you can't question about either Messi on Ronaldo is their sheer determination to win for the team. Yes there is personal success, but they know it's the big team trophies that count.

As much as you can look at an engine failure for causing him to lose the world championship, you could also highlight that his first world championship was won in dubious circumstance where his friend encountered last lap issues to let Hamilton get 5th spot. A lot of people share they theory that it was a favour although that can't be proved. Just like the updated clutch setup. There is no substance to prove it was a fix for Rosberg. They still had the same equipment and Hamilton had the chance to learn too. He's been fine with it for a while. One of Hamilton's bad starts was blamed on a damp patch too.

Hamilton is a good driver, but he's not in the elite in my opinion. He's only got 3 world championships due to the cars he's driven. It's a stick on that Mercedes were going to win everything with ease. Rosberg is a very average driver in my opinion. He's still lost to him over the longest F1 season ever.

Are you suggesting people are "bullying" Hamilton because he's from the South, or as he's black like he suggested before?

I don't particularly like Hamilton but it has nothing to do with anything other than the way he conducts himself in the public eye.


----------



## shycho (Sep 7, 2010)

Kerr said:


> Messi is a team player. Ronaldo is a bit more single minded but he still contributes to the team. Messi and Ronaldo are the absolute elite in football. Hamilton isn't in the same league as those two within motorsport. One thing you can't question about either Messi on Ronaldo is their sheer determination to win for the team. Yes there is personal success, but they know it's the big team trophies that count.


You believe if Barca are 4-0 up in the Champions league final, and win a penalty in the last minute, which the team have said Suarez is taking. That Messi who needs one more goal to become top scorer, is letting Suarez take that penalty? When the team success is guaranteed you can be sure the best in their professions are going to start thinking about their own success.

Very hard to draw parallels, as nobody asks which team you support in F1. It's all about the individuals.


----------



## Willows-dad (Jul 12, 2012)

B8sy86 said:


> Very sad how many people think the guy is a **** when none of us have ever met him or spoken to him, I would hate to think someone thinks that of me because I have a strong desire to win and show my heart on my sleeve when things aren't going my way. I'm also the kind of person that shows respect to every individual I meet and is polite to everyone I ever speak to.
> 
> I was lucky enough to go to Bahrain grand prix this year where I got speaking to a family friend who has been a marshal there for a few years. He told me of the time he was Sat in the shade and Hamilton was having a bad weekend, he came out of the back of the pits with his engineer, told him something and walked over to the marshal and Sat down with him in the shade, he stayed there for about 20 mins talking to the marshal asking all about his family and life showing genuine interest, not once did he want to talk about himself, the marshal realised he just wanted a normal conversation to clear his mind a little before he had to get back to work. He was hugely polite and friendly the whole time. That doesn't sound like a **** to me.
> 
> ...


Very true. People I know of that have been lucky enough to meet drivers have all said that Hamilton was the nicest by far. In contrast to vettel, who I think comes across as a nice guy on tv.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

shycho said:


> You believe if Barca are 4-0 up in the Champions league final, and win a penalty in the last minute, which the team have said Suarez is taking. That Messi who needs one more goal to become top scorer, is letting Suarez take that penalty? When the team success is guaranteed you can be sure the best in their professions are going to start thinking about their own success.
> 
> Very hard to draw parallels, as nobody asks which team you support in F1. It's all about the individuals.


On numerous occasions a team will support certain players to also achieve personal targets and set records on top of team targets. On loads of occasions the regular penalty taker might allow someone else to take a penalty if that helps the other player complete a hat-trick for example. That's all part of playing in a team.

If Suarez and Messi were competing with each other to be the top scorer, and Suarez was the designated penalty taker, there would be no chance the team or Suarez would give the penalty up even if the game was won.

I can remember when players have fought over who's going to take the penalty and it's not gone down well with fans or manager. There's nothing worse than bickering and someone doing their own things against the instructions they have been set.

Even if a football team is 4-0 up in the Champions league there is no way they would alter things to make it a battle unnecessarily. They wouldn't switch off and say let's make this exciting by letting the other team catch up to make it more exciting. They would want to kill the game stone dead and win it as easily as possible.

What Mercedes asked Hamilton to do is little different.

Yes Mercedes had already won the world championship, but every team has goals of scoring as many points as possible and they don't want people put as risk they don't need to be.


----------



## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

This

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127328/team-bosses-name-hamilton-2016-best-driver


----------



## B8sy86 (Jan 10, 2015)

Kerr said:


> You don't need to know him personally to express an opinion that the way he conducts himself and many things he says make him sound bad. It's impossible to argue otherwise in my opinion.
> 
> Messi is a team player. Ronaldo is a bit more single minded but he still contributes to the team. Messi and Ronaldo are the absolute elite in football. Hamilton isn't in the same league as those two within motorsport. One thing you can't question about either Messi on Ronaldo is their sheer determination to win for the team. Yes there is personal success, but they know it's the big team trophies that count.
> 
> ...


I apologise if it's come across that people aren't entitled to their opinion, my frustration is with people brandishing him with hurtful, inappropriate names such as **** without ever meeting him in person.

As for your points of elite, you hold high standards and of course you are entitled to that.

His first opportunity for a world championship was taken away by a grid penalty for overtaking Kimi and not letting him back passed for long enough which everyone knew was rubbish, he lifted Kimi passed , he overtook again. The Ferrari international assistance sorry I mean FIA introduced a new rule after that penalty. So take away his first and give him that and he's still world champion.

Mercedes admitted themselves that the clutch paddle was adapted due to Rosberg struggling. Hamilton didn't object so it was done but then he couldn't get on with it. It's the same as drivers preferring and being more natural with oversteer or understeer. When Hamilton joined Mercedes he hated the brakes, Rosberg didn't object to changes so they were changed and Hamilton got quicker. It's swings and roundabouts but the brakes changing actually improved for rosberg as well.

You have to go back decades to find a driver that didn't win a world championship because he was in the best car. Minus the car failures this year he would be a 4 time world champion and the only British driver to ever achieve that in f1, it's likely he will still achieve it and given that GB has produced by far the most f1 champions then to be joint most successful and to potentially become the most successful gives him elite status in my book and I would imagine most others.

Has he sometimes made comments that made me call him a tool to the T.V., absolutely but it doesn't make him a ****.

On a different note, 1 racer I think we will all miss is Jenson Button and I hope he ends up presenting because I really think him, Webber and coulthard together on screen could be so entertaining as well as having so much technical knowledge!

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hondafan1 (Jul 26, 2013)

I originally started this post and it has been a good post with a mixture of opinions across the board. Everyone has an opinion and has expressed their opinion and neither yourselves or I can or will change peoples opinions, opinions are human nature. I wanted to see if people think what happened on the track has affected his public opinion and also his future at Mercedes.

It clearly had affected public opinion with clear Marmite opinions of him.

As for his career at Mercedes we are yet to see the results of that.

Love him or loath him you can't dispute Hamiltons talent and the celebrity A list life style is very reminiscent of another F1 past hero James Hunt. Both true champions and both lives / lived life in the fast lane. 

What ever happens to Hamilton following the final race will be his own destiny based on his own decisions / actions and i certainly will not be criticising him, the media are already all over that 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## slim_boy_fat (Jun 23, 2006)

Just seen the lunch-time news, Rosberg has announced his retirement with immediate effect!! :doublesho


----------



## Hondafan1 (Jul 26, 2013)

Just read this, didn't see that coming. If Hamilton's drive is safe for 2017 i wonder who will be in the other seat??
Im sticking to Verstappen or Vettel. It would be great if Button was given s life line to return to F1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr Kirk (Sep 26, 2016)

Hahaha what a cop out. Knows he got lucky and has done a runner.


----------



## Hondafan1 (Jul 26, 2013)

I think its a great move for him as he goes out on top as a world champion and maybe he realised that the only reason he won was because of Hamilton's reliability issues. I bet its a win win for him


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

Mr Kirk said:


> Hahaha what a cop out. Knows he got lucky and has done a runner.


With a jumped up arrogant pleb of a team mate, I don't blame him for retiring!


----------



## uggski (Jun 29, 2016)

Taking a leaf out of Casey Stoners book :thumb:


----------

