# New Toy Musings



## Sharpy296 (Jan 18, 2017)

This will likely be a bit of a random post where I just write down thoughts more than anything but I would appreciate any feedback from members as I stumble in the direction of a new car...

In short I am looking for a new car, we already have 2 cars (2005 Volvo XC90 exec and a 2007 Seat Leon Stylance 140) and I am looking at the possibility of a sports car of some sort it will be a toy and not used a great deal as we have a young daughter and the ones I am considering are all 2 doors... however it will be nice to work on and keep clean and occasionally go out in, current plan would be to keep it relatively long term so it would likely get more use as out little one grows up - but should I need to sell it to free up the money then I would.

I have, I think narrowed it down to 4 cars... possibly 3.


Front runners are

BMW Z4 Coupe
Nissan 350Z GT

Slightly behind in the running are 

Honda S2000
Porsche Boxster

So in order

The BMW is a nice looking motor and I have always fancied getting one they get good reviews generally but they are rare (which is good and bad) which means finding a good one is difficult but it would be easier to sell should I need to.

The Nissan is again a good looking car, there are plenty about so I would be able to choose the right one and re-sale should be easy enough.

The Hondas are great cars but seem to be in 2 categories new and expensive / well looked after old and knackered / modified also nervous about soft tops generally as the car would be kept outside with the other cars.

The Porsche is a late runner, hadnt really thought about them but they are about and within the price bracket, but again a soft top car.

I am not expecting it to be an investment as there are so few cars that actually appreciate but I am looking at something that will retain a good resale value should I need to sell it.

Performance wise they are all similar.

Thoughts on a postcard....


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## enc (Jan 25, 2006)

Something I've been considering of late too. 
My thinking...

MK1 or mk2 MR2.. early ones are hard to find in good condition at sensible money .. 
mk2 not as nice but a future classic for sure. 

Mk 1 Audi TT .. plentiful and cheap. Market has probabyg bottomed out so now is the time to buy. Never ever seen a rusty one. should increase in value. 

Porsche Boxter ... again plentiful and cheap .. right now. Finding one that hasnt had 10 owners could be a problem.


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

Depending on your budget, a Porsche Cayman could be a worthy shout to allay your soft top fears and don't dismiss a 2.7, the S is good but the chassis balance is more what these cars are really about; much more balanced than a 911


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## Simonrev (Nov 26, 2012)

Just my thoughts 

BMW Z4 Coupe ... excellent build and reliability and the coupe does look very sleek ... but you pay for it 

Nissan 350Z GT .... Again a very well built car that could perhaps be described as slightly agricultural .. few small silly niggles but nothing too frightening ... a good standard spec one would be perhaps the way to go

Honda S2000 .... great fun cars but do suffer badly from rust (hard to spot from the outside) as they age so finding a good one at reasonable money may be hard 

Porsche Boxster .... really tempting at the money they command but after looking in to the engines and the potential issues I personally was put off


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## Sharpy296 (Jan 18, 2017)

Simonrev said:


> Just my thoughts
> 
> BMW Z4 Coupe ... excellent build and reliability and the coupe does look very sleek ... but you pay for it
> 
> ...


Pretty much summed up where I am! I would only be looking for any of the cars in standard spec having modified cars as a youf I know what that often means... Although there are still some gems out there!

Hopefully going to have a look at a Z4 Coupe this weekend its only a few miles away and looks pretty good in the photos, also trying to get a look at the Nissan... Think im moving further away from the Honda and the Porsche!


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

The BMW will be fairly solid but they are priced stiff these days. Convertible or coupe, they are fine cars and generally solid but the more money the sticker price is the closer you get to M3 territory...I shall say no more.

The 350Z is a bit crude but they are dirt cheap as they have no badge clout.

The S2000 honestly, it's a bit old hat now. They really aren't that fast but mechanically they are sound. Looks swoopy and will never try to kill you physically or financially but would not be serious enough for me.

The Porsche will drive better than the rest put together but you need to get into the knowledge of some serious Porsche owners, various things will need to be checked or done, look for full service history, oil seals and the like, other odds and sods which many mainstream mechanics won't have a scoobs about as they are all peculiar to Porsche and their engineering, so you will need a Porsche specialist locally to look after it.

What sort of budget are you looking at? Seriously, in the 10K bracket and above a tidy M3 would be a serious runner.

Most rag tops leak, check they actually fold up!!! Porsches apparently aren't as bad for this, but need careful cleaning and checking. Buy a hardtop for winter.

What about an MX-5? Cheap to run and a hoot to drive? Too girly?

Don't buy an Audi TT, they are girls cars and it is just a Golf in lingerie after all.

You may be tempted by an RX-8, but don't.

In terms of a slightly different machine, there are hot hatches and saloons- Subaru world, etc. We need to know your budget and intended mileage really to be of much help.


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## uggski (Jun 29, 2016)

I was in the same position as you. Looked at all the usual contenders and all the above. 

I eventually went for a Boxster. Read all the usual horror stories about the IMS bearing but if you look into it, it's actually a very rare failure. On very early 2.5 nothing to worry about and they seem to be the one that's slowly rising in value. 

What swung it for me was i was edging towards a Z4 but a mate had an issue with something on his 3.0 which turned out to be really expensive so I thought just buy the one you really like and not worry too much they are all expensive to fix. 

Glad I did as the Boxster is a much nicer drive than the Z4's I have driven. Plus that Straight 6 howl is very addictive.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

uggski said:


> Glad I did as the Boxster is a much nicer drive than the Z4's I have driven. Plus that Straight 6 howl is very addictive.


You have the only straight 6 Boxster ever made


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## uggski (Jun 29, 2016)

andy665 said:


> You have the only straight 6 Boxster ever made


oops. Meant flat 6. Still a great sound. Doh!


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

The Boxster is and always has been a very very fine drivers car, the newer models are just even more sharp and accomplished. Don't let anyone try to tell you it isn't a proper Porsche, they definitely have the magic and in the right hands are a proper driving tool.


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Hi Sharpy,

Lovely choice of cars.

If it's for very occasional use I'm going to throw in a curved ball.

How about something much older but properly cared for.

Maybe a Morgan:

https://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/car-locator/

Or how about a "classic" Lotus such as something from here:

https://paulmattysportscars.co.uk/showroom/

And a Lotus body will definitely give you something different to work with as it's not metal .

There's many others - Triumph TR6/Stag, maybe even a big V8 American beastie????

You'll never have a problem selling a well cared for example of a classic sports car if you need to.

Just a thought.

Good Luck with it.

Andy.


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

I found the boxster better than the 911. There, I've said it.

At the time I was looking at Z4s as well...but they aren't as focussed, lovely cars but hard to find nice ones as you say. To be fair I spent a lot more and it was a long time ago.

MX5 is a good call.

I wouldn't be too worried about leaky roofs on a modern car. I have a hard top and hardly ever use it, the roof is fine.

All of these will cost you as they weren't cheap new.

I'd go for an early boxster or the 987, which I still think is the prettiest version.




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## Minimiller (Jan 20, 2017)

First of all Don't get the Porsche you will get ripped into as its a poor mans Porsche lol.

Honda S2000 Japanese reliable absolutely fantastic cars I love them you don't see to many of them around.

Nissan 350z - Some people say there not really a drivers car a bit to refined? easy to drive apparently?? again Japanese so its going to be reliable to some extent + they sound the nuts.

Bmw I have no opinion on this never really looked into them,

Mazda MX5s are again fantastic cars but if you are looking for something fast these are not for you. unless you plan on modding it with a turbo and or supercharger I which case it would be insane.

Theres lots of choices out there you can't really go wrong mate you are either lucky with a car or you are not simple as that =)

Hope you get what you want in the end Good luck =)


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## Minimiller (Jan 20, 2017)

Id definitely go for the Japanese cars but im biased lol.

If you are wanting a sports car im assuming you want to hoon it around like a member mention earlier in the thread have you considered a evo or Subaru. probably not what you are looking for but you can get a fantastic example of a Scooby low mileage nice mods for quite a low amount of money nowdays and you will knock any sports car into next week when you go by =')


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## Sharpy296 (Jan 18, 2017)

Some great thoughts on here and more to think about.

To cover off some of the suggestions....

Subaru Impreza - I have given that some thought and would like one, however if I was going to be getting something like that i would probably get rid of the SEAT, which is a possibility and not one I have written off entirely.

The MX5 just does nothing for me, they are nice well built cars and I know a good few people who have them but i just find them a bit "meh"... and this car has to be something I like looking at as well as driving.

Good ideas about possibly a classic sports car and not one I had given much thought to... will have to do some more investigations into this option!

It will ultimately be a low low car and it will be well looked after as all our cars are pretty much every car I have bought is better when I sell it than when I bought it (which is probably common on here!) so I would hope that value retention and resale would be easy.


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

Minimiller said:


> First of all Don't get the Porsche you will get ripped into as its a poor mans Porsche lol.


Nobody who's ever driven one thinks that and most average people realise now the Cayman is better to drive than the 911 and the Boxster is infinitely better than a convertible 911. Not that it should even matter what other people think. I drove an Aston Martin DB9 as my daily driver and when I got rid of it I replaced it with a £400 Peugeot 206 diesel because I don't care what people think. The 206 is great fun and I still have it lol.


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## donfresh (Feb 23, 2016)

I had the same dilemma as you over a year ago. I was looking at all the same cars and a couple of extras.

350z - good car, more of a GT than a sports car, lazy but powerfull v6. prices are cheap too

boxter - great car, its porsches entry level car but it is still a full on sports car. better made than the honda but when it needs a service or fixing you will be paying porsche prices for parts

S2000 - I ended up buying the honda and I dont regret it. great car, proper raw front engine RWD sports car, how its meant to be. 9k redline that screams and its just a joy to drive. dont see that many about these days either. 

other option i was looking at...

Integra type r - getting rare these days, EVO said its one of the best fwd car ever, really good driver focused car, pricess starting to rise


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## Sharpy296 (Jan 18, 2017)

Thanks DF, I think I would look at the integra the same way as I do a subabru in that I would probably replace the SEAT, but its another good option and I do like them!

Im not fussed what other people think but the car has to do something for me hence why the MX5 is out but the Porsche is very much back in.... Might need to try and get a drive of each and see what I think of them, if the Porsche is that much better as a sports car that might just swing it....


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## uggski (Jun 29, 2016)

Sharpy296 said:


> Thanks DF, I think I would look at the integra the same way as I do a subabru in that I would probably replace the SEAT, but its another good option and I do like them!
> 
> Im not fussed what other people think but the car has to do something for me hence why the MX5 is out but the Porsche is very much back in.... Might need to try and get a drive of each and see what I think of them, if the Porsche is that much better as a sports car that might just swing it....


Where abouts are you. If you are near Essex you are welcome to have a look at mine. :thumb:


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## uggski (Jun 29, 2016)

Here's a good forum for all things Boxster.

http://www.boxa.net/forum/


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## Sharpy296 (Jan 18, 2017)

uggski said:


> Where abouts are you. If you are near Essex you are welcome to have a look at mine. :thumb:


Im up near York so not that close really! But appreciate the offer!


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## Sharpy296 (Jan 18, 2017)

Just been doing some AutoTrader perusing and found a couple of nice looking 986 Boxsters.

Quite like the look of this one, seems well looked after 986

and a 987

987

Also some links to the other cars im considering....

Z4

Z4

350Z

This is genuinely confusing... Can I just have one of each!

Next step will be to go and have a look at them. Im quite excited about the possibilities now...


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## donfresh (Feb 23, 2016)

another thing to watch out for on the 350z is the tax. if i remember correctly its 300pa up to 2006 and 500pa after


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## Sharpy296 (Jan 18, 2017)

donfresh said:


> another thing to watch out for on the 350z is the tax. if i remember correctly its 300pa up to 2006 and 500pa after


I had noticed that... its a bit of a stinger! Similar to my XC90 I pay £300 but if I had got one a year newer it would have been £500!!


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

That second 987 looks a minter.

You can get a Porsche powertrain warranty for reasonable money IIRC, probably cheaper than the same from BMW but that is another matter....

The closer you get to the magic 10K mark the closer you are to M3 territory mind! Slap another 5K on and you are in second hand 911 territory!


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

A decent Boxster will not lose much money now but whatever your budget is I'd allow a 15-20% holdback fund to get any niggling little problems out of the way

Z4's are not that great to drive and an E46 M3 - well, you have the M tax on all parts (put me off when I did a LOT of research on them) plus you want a sports car, whilst the M3 is a great car its not a sports car

Totally left field but do not rule out a Westfield, a well set up example with a decent Zetec or Redtop will be under 8-9k, will outperform and outfun pretty much anything on the road and values are rock solid - maintenance / running costs are also very low. I insured my 330bhp V8 Westfield fully comp for £150

A Club member is selling his 1.9 CVH engined car with 13k in the clock, pushing out about 160bhp for under 6k - this includes a stack full of spares


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## Sharpy296 (Jan 18, 2017)

ollienoclue said:


> That second 987 looks a minter.
> 
> The closer you get to the magic 10K mark the closer you are to M3 territory mind! Slap another 5K on and you are in second hand 911 territory!


Stop it!! You are giving me too many idea! All I wanted was a 2 seater sports car... now im looking at 911's!!!!! :lol:


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## Sharpy296 (Jan 18, 2017)

andy665 said:


> Totally left field but do not rule out a Westfield, a well set up example with a decent Zetec or Redtop will be under 8-9k, will outperform and outfun pretty much anything on the road and values are rock solid - maintenance / running costs are also very low. I insured my 330bhp V8 Westfield fully comp for £150
> 
> A Club member is selling his 1.9 CVH engined car with 13k in the clock, pushing out about 160bhp for under 6k - this includes a stack full of spares


Funnily enough I have looked at a westfield but not very many of them come with a roof... which would be an issue as I dont have a garage to keep it in (its full of other junk), although I am considering asking the neighbours if they have any space also the farmer (I live in a small village), so its not totally out of the question.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Sharpy296 said:


> Funnily enough I have looked at a westfield but not very many of them come with a roof... which would be an issue as I dont have a garage to keep it in (its full of other junk), although I am considering asking the neighbours if they have any space also the farmer (I live in a small village), so its not totally out of the question.


If its a true sports car you are looking for then a Westfield is a great option. Mine has no roof (or screen) and is kept outside under a Hamilton cover (£160) and has remained completely dry.

I understand people going on about 911's etc, problem is running costs per mile driven can be enormous

I did 300 miles in my Westfield last week in a day in North Wales - the other cars with me, a 500bhp Audi S4 and Griffith 500 could not live with me and I know I had more fun than any of them.


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

I wouldn't entertain a 996 911, I've had an air cooled 911 for 11 years and for 5 it was my daily and I know many 911 owners and have driven loads. Any 996 is asking for trouble unless you are into investment 4 figure mileage cars. The early 3.4 is not a reliable car and the 3.6 isn't much better at times. The 996 isn't all that sharp to drive and looks very similar to (and inside is pretty much exactly the same as) an earlier Boxster. For £10k you have a good choice of later Boxster's and the 2.7 is powerful enough for most. The 3.2 cars are very nice but stick to a manual in a car like this. Service costs are high though. An SLK55 AMG isn't much more than £10k for one of the cheapest around but AMG running costs and its not much faster than a Boxster S and isn't as keen to drive either by a long shot. Different though...


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## HEADPHONES (Jan 1, 2008)

If you are looking for a 350z, there are normally quite a few for sale that have the Nismo Aero bodykit fitted.
Really transforms the look of the car.
The 350z never grabbed my attention when it was released until i saw one with the kit on.
Went for a test drive, ordered one and 12 years later I'm still a happy chappy


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## Gedo (Apr 5, 2017)

I bought a Boxster 987.2 a few months ago and we took it on a roadtrip to Skye over the Easter weekend. Car blew me away to be honest, much more of a drivers car than I thought it would be. The flat 6 howl (2.9 in my case) is very addictive and the handling is sublime. 

Trust me, this ain't no hairdressers car...


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## MickCTR (Mar 4, 2006)

It's not a bad dilemma to have mate. I owned a Honda S2000 while my mate owned a Z4 and to be honest I think the S felt like a bit more of an event. It's a fabulous car, quite raw and thrilling to drive. Mine lived outside with a removable hard top and was my daily driver. Loved it. If I was choosing out of those 4 cars now though I think a tidy Z would probably swing it, if nothing else just for that stunning motor and they do look good. I'm a bit of a BMW fanboy but unless it was the M roadster or coupe I think it'd be 4th on my list out of that selection.


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## Sharpy296 (Jan 18, 2017)

There are definitely worse decisions to make... the Porsche is well up there now. Struggling with decent looking s2000s locally so might have to have a weekend looking at options!! Thanks for all the thoughts so far very useful. 


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

There isn't nothing to be afraid of in a 996, my buddy has one and provided you are careful and have a budget to have things repaired, they are no different to any other car in terms of shock horror value. Many high end cars can and do have expensive repair bills, and they are good to drive, my friend tracks his a fair bit and loves it, whether a Boxster would have been equally good is open to debate, but in his mind it doesn't have the badge.

Having said that, the Boxster is a fine drivers instrument. Always has been and in the very latest form is definitely no slouch. The hardest part for me would be the lure of the M car...

I have driven Porsches a lot, principally 911s but the Boxster too in various iterations. I will say this, I don't think you will find many cars out there in which you can generally learn something about driving them, every day you drive it. The M3 is the ultimate bad boys saloon which unlocks the school boy in me, same as an Impreza does, but the Porsche product is stitched together differently and is perched in a slightly different direction.


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## Sharpy296 (Jan 18, 2017)

I was pondering a few things last night and decided that it really needs to be a sports car and not a car that replaces one of the current vehicles, the point of it is to have a car that is fun to drive and for occasional use with the ability to resell should I need to, what I dont want to end up with is a car that I still need but am unable to liquidate the asset.

While the risk of needing the money back is relatively low I think it needs to be a 3rd car rather than a replacement of one of the ones we have already.

That said there are some nice looking Imprezas within budget as well and thats a car I have always quite fancied...


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

I'm probably going off piste today.
Might be swapping 10 years of saloons for a coupe 

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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

Recently Ive had a boxster, MX5 Merc SLK, Audi TT, Mini Cooper, all as toy cars (one at a time lol) my thoughts are:

Boxster, had it 6 months, and sold it couldnt stand the thought of it going bang and the crazy expense, mine was 2002 and I prefered the MX5 tbh. Was sluggish at low revs, went like hell at high revs with seemingly nothing in between
MX5, great reliable car, 35 mpg so not great on fuel, not fast in a straight line but use the revs and its quick enough and round a windy road its great fun
Merc SLK (250 cdi) quick, economical, not really practical. I sail RC yachts so drove down to the lake with top down, put top up to get boat out of boot etc. Main issue which I havnt seen anyone else comment on the bonnet is so long and you sit so far back that at a t junctions its hard to judge whether you are on the wrong side of the road or about to clip the kerb. Even worse at night to the point where I took another car.
Mini Cooper (BMW) quick fun but really harsh to drive, no slack in the drive train, so gear changes etc require concentration, OK if you are in the mood.
Audi TT nicely made car the turbo gives great mid range torque so is very drivable in todays traffic, we still have it.

Traded the SLK for an A180 new style economical, practical for our newly acquired dog etc.

Traded the Mini for a 325i which is much quicker and refined. with the 6 cylinder howl when you rev it, and still fun.

Clarkson said about the Golf GTi its a car without drawbacks, for once sense! Whatever you decide on my advice is get something you can use regularly, Our Porsche rarely got used because it drank fuel at 25 mpg versus our diesels at more like 60, made us think twice before taking it!

Good luck with your choise, have fun


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## Sharpy296 (Jan 18, 2017)

Okay, so by way of an update....

I have been out, test driven most of the options... really like the Porsche and so I bought a.... van.... Not sure how this happened but the Volvo XC90 has been sold and I pick up a 2015 vauxhall vivaro lwb twin cab on Friday.

Ive not entirely given up on the idea of a sports car, in fact I am still half looking but it has put the purchase back a bit.


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