# Kranzles why the fuss



## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

Kranzles why the fuss.
Got a chance to use one the other day yes build of it was good but was exspecting it to blow my arms off with all the rave about it on here.
Still bit of power but think i'll stick to my bosch and ryobi subaru.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Chris i have the Makita HW131 semi pro Brass pump head a variable presure and 15 mtr integral heavy duty reel been great can run it for 7 hours doing slabs etc great, i was going to buy a kranzel at the time but it was another £240 could not justifie it.


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## mejinks (Nov 22, 2009)

chrisc said:


> Kranzles why the fuss.
> Got a chance to use one the other day yes build of it was good but was exspecting it to blow my arms off with all the rave about it on here.
> Still bit of power but think i'll stick to my bosch and ryobi subaru.


Think of it like comparing a ford focus to an Aston Martin. Both will get you from A to B. Both will take petrol and both can ferry you and your shopping about. However, the Aston is better built and looks sexier and will get you the chicks.


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

mejinks said:


> Think of it like comparing a ford focus to an Aston Martin. Both will get you from A to B. Both will take petrol and both can ferry you and your shopping about. However, the Aston is better built and looks sexier and will get you the chicks.


It's a pressure washer though and the kranzle would be the focus to my two:thumb:


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

Not the most power from the k7 chris but it does the job of cleaning what i need but it comes down to reliablity had mine coming on 3 years and not spent a penny on it yet not even a service yes bad of me but it keeps going


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## [email protected] (Dec 21, 2005)

The K7 which is the smallest of the range is only a 130 BAR and 7 LPM which is not going to break any records to be honest with you Chris but think of it this way - they are built to a high quality German spec compared to most pressure washers, they have all the right materials within the machine and they small enough to lift without pulling your back out! And the most important factor is you get what you pay for:thumb:


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## alexj (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm hoping its the build quality, and practicality, I researched the market for quite a while before making my choice over a hot water washer. I'm well pleased so far.

The K7/120 is leightweight enough to be portable, looks good, has a commercial two year warranty if serviced once a year, can suck from a tank, only needs 7 litres/minute and has a low motor wattage so wont burn out as easily, can also suck detergent with a low pressure chemical lance or you can use a snow foam attachment. 10 meter hose,
They have a brass pump, quiet, powerful enough to clean a driveway but can also clean your car without destroying it, can run on cold or hot water up to 60 degrees

They can also be run off a small generator, the mobile valetor/detailers friend 

so pretty adaptable for around £500 with all the kit

If I go into this commercially I would definitely want to sell them

which one did you use ?


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## alexj (Apr 12, 2012)

The pressure of the K7 is more than you will ever need to wash a car !

What I was also told and if you look at Malcolm Smiths website malclense, I quote

'Remember you can not get out more than you put in.
You are restricted to your electric supply, for a domestic house that is single phase 230 volts. You can only turn this into about 120 / 130 bar pressure at about 10 lpm flow – it is imposable to get more, there is just not enough power in the supply to convert it into more pressure / flow'


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

love my K7 
more than enough power, in fact i've only used it to about 80% of its potential power so far..


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

It's the power I mean reading on here for a few years always wanted one.
And yes I can see the point for van use if i was to get into it again I would probally get one.But for home use dont think there much better than the nilfisks in power or karcher etc.Or it could be I have got used to 150bar and 220bar on mine.Or these what have raved about them have had not very powerfull pressure washers before.Hence the there best thing since sliced bread


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

tbh chris, i don't recall seeing loads of threads raving about them all the time - or is it just me?.. 
yes, most of the DW supporters use them for various reasons..
a similar thread could be posted about countless products on here too - 'favour of the month' type products etc. swings and roundabouts..


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

Well not raved threads the mentions as in get this:thumb:
Only my thoughts on it dont need to be taken as gossple.And yeah there could be many threads on other subjects but there is not


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## alexj (Apr 12, 2012)

Chris you cant get any more than 130 bar from any pressure washer on a 230 volt home supply, so unless youve been using them on a different rating... maybe the nozzle might be different, who knows....how much pressure do you want...go on malcleanse website, its all explained on there. Never Doubt The Kranzle !!!!

'Remember you can not get out more than you put in.
You are restricted to your electric supply, for a domestic house that is single phase 230 volts. You can only turn this into about 120 / 130 bar pressure at about 10 lpm flow – it is imposable to get more, there is just not enough power in the supply to convert it into more pressure / flow'


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

I don't see all the fuss about pressure washers. I have a Halfords HP2000 which isn't glamorous by any means like a Kranzle (in terms of pressure washers ). The pressure output is fantastic, beats any Karcher I've ever used and it hasn't let me down with weekly use for about 3 years now. Okay the gun did snap thanks to me leaving it outside in winter but Halfords replaced the whole thing without even asking if I own one! M22 fittings the same as a Kranzle too. Won't be getting rid of it any time soon.

Have used a Kranzle before and was impressed by the weight which indicated decent build quality as it did feel solid but that was it really.. :thumb:


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## alexj (Apr 12, 2012)

Oh Alan you can have a go with mine anytime

To be honest it rains that much here in Manchester I wondered why I bothered !


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## Defined Reflections (Jun 4, 2009)

I have a kranzle and a nilfisk,while the nilfisk is okay at foaming and rinsing it struggles cleaning the carpet sound deading under arches.

The kranzle feels a lot more powerfull compared to the nilfisk,but not to powerfull to damage anything. (seems to foam better aswell)

Nilfisk has been great for the money...but they only last around year.


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## trv8 (Dec 30, 2007)

Defined Reflections said:


> Nilfisk has been great for the money...but they only last around year.


I've had my Nilfisk for well-over 2 years and it's still going strong, it's in use most days and I've never had a problem with it :thumb:.

For the money I paid for mine on a special offer, I could've bought 10 Nilfisk's for the price of a Kranzle ........ 
Sooooo, going-on that mine is STILL working over 2 years later, If I'd had bought 10, I would have the use of a good reliable PW for OVER 20 YEARS, which would have taken me well-into my retirement years :lol:.


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## B-mah (Oct 4, 2011)

alan_mcc said:


> I have a Halfords HP2000 which isn't glamorous by any means like a Kranzle. :thumb:


And where does this come between a Focus and a Aston Martin, Octavia perhaps. :lol:


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## Hoppo32 (Nov 18, 2008)

chrisc said:


> Or it could be I have got used to 150bar and 220bar on mine.Or these what have raved about them have had not very powerfull pressure washers before.Hence the there best thing since sliced bread


Your getting caught up with high power figures here chris when flow rate matters more. Most high end washers (£2k+) only run at around 120 bar but have high flow rates as it's safer.
220 bar is getting into dangerous territory on automotive paint, i've personally seen a 3 month old astra that had half it's clearcoat stripped by using a high powered washer on it. You can even cut wood at those sort of pressures, theres plenty of vids on youtube showing people sawing pallets in half with high bar washers.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Kranzles are undoubtedly good and very well made, 6 times better than a £100 karcher? Maybe. I bought one last year after abusing my K2 karcher for 3-4 years and it was still going. The only draw back I see is the weight of the lance, it must be at least twice as heavy as karcher type plastic....and it does not come with a quick connect.



alexj said:


> Chris you cant get any more than 130 bar from any pressure washer on a 230 volt home supply,


The kranzle 'dirt killer' attachment takes it up to 260bar....at the expense of flow rate.



mejinks said:


> Think of it like comparing a ford focus to an Aston Martin. Both will get you from A to B. Both will take petrol and both can ferry you and your shopping about. However, the Aston is better built and looks sexier and will get you the chicks.


^this - i can confirm my kranzle has got me chicks on more than one occasion, slip it into conversation at the bar, or if a passing bird sees you using it you know there will be a happy ending!


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## alexj (Apr 12, 2012)

Hey Bero

Adding pressure and chicks digging it...its all about your nozzle !

Not tried the dirt killer or the under car attachment for the kranzle

Are they any good ? 

What do you use the dirt killer on, dont say dirt ! Patios/driveways maybe ???


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

Hoppo32 said:


> Your getting caught up with high power figures here chris when flow rate matters more. Most high end washers (£2k+) only run at around 120 bar but have high flow rates as it's safer.
> 220 bar is getting into dangerous territory on automotive paint, i've personally seen a 3 month old astra that had half it's clearcoat stripped by using a high powered washer on it. You can even cut wood at those sort of pressures, theres plenty of vids on youtube showing people sawing pallets in half with high bar washers.


i'll check sure iit says 220 on it
But the bosch is a 150 its plasterd on the front of it


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

alexj said:


> Hey Bero
> 
> Adding pressure and chicks digging it...its all about your nozzle !
> 
> ...


I've hardly used mine, maybe used it on some steps...to be honest the regular lance has an adjustment for spray pattern which lets you focus it which is enough for most jobs.


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## alexj (Apr 12, 2012)

I agree, I have the chemical lance, which adjusts

Very pleased with it so far


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

I almost did buy a Kranzle but after hearing the rumours of constant oil leaks and need of servicing frequently I opted for another Karcher hd511c. Being picky, it could be more compact alike the Kranzle but my last hd machine lasted almost 5 years with little more than the odd 'o' ring being changed, no leaking or anything and a good few ££'s cheaper. If its for home use for your own vehicle / vehicles I dont see the point if im honest.


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## Griffiths Detailing (Mar 29, 2011)

As Scott says I had also heard a few issues with Kranzle and actually had one for a week or 2 and it broke so opted for this - http://www.chemtec.co.uk/acatalog/HD-512-C-Plus.html#a1514103

Which is an amazing machine and a great price I think

Chris


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

I've had my Karcher since 2006, it's been used an abused, left outside in all kinds of weather, you name it. The only thing i have replaced is the lance, because i drove over it and that cost me a tenner off a karcher guy at a car boot sale.


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## MatthewADV (Jan 18, 2012)

Kranzle for over 5 years now, not let me down once.

Karcher however......................


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## srod (Dec 31, 2010)

Aye, not aware of having to service my kranzle other than to change the oil occasionally which takes no more than 10 minutes.

Will probably have the seals replaced at some point as a preventative measure, but other than that the damn thing is built like an armored truck. Reckon I will break down before my Kranzle does.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

its like anything - i could buy a car for >£1000 that would get me from A to B perfectly fine but i chose to buy a Civic Type R, i could use a cheap PW but i treated myself to a Kranzle..


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## mike13098 (Jan 21, 2012)

only ever owned a kranzle k7

abused day in/day out for 4 years almost

think ive serviced it a few times and it has never cost me a penny


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## alexj (Apr 12, 2012)

Check out Shineramas Wub Wub Karcher...says it all


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## Aucky (Oct 3, 2008)

Because Kranzle is a funny name? 

Krazy


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## alexj (Apr 12, 2012)

Aucky said:


> Because Kranzle is a funny name?
> 
> Krazy


So is karcher, nilfisk, alberti etc etc

Where/who is the British made jet washer ???


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

I would still not buy one though.Glad i used one before i bought one


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## distracted (Oct 30, 2010)

In my previous job the lads in the yard used Kranzles to hose down the equipment every day. In nearly 4 years I don't recall anyone mentioning them.....because they gave no trouble. I use a bottom of the line Halfords PW at home and hasn't let me down in nearly 3 years either. Swings and roundabouts


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## feeler (Mar 16, 2010)

i have a Kranzle for over 4 years and apart from needing a new hose it never needed anything. i also have a karcher hd 5/12c have it it over 2 years and have had a number of thing go wrong with it. i will say one thing that the karcher is much nicer to use.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

alexj said:


> Chris you cant get any more than 130 bar from any pressure washer on a 230 volt home supply


Of course you can, and there's nothing to stop you using a 32 or 64A supply either.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

SteveyG said:


> Of course you can, and there's nothing to stop you using a 32 or 64A supply either.


I think OP meant that this would be the maximum from a 13amp socket, which is what most people will have.

I must say that I would rather have higher flow once I got to 110 bar. Pressure is not everything.


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## alexj (Apr 12, 2012)

SteveyG have you read the original thread and information on the malcleanse website

'Chris you cant get any more than 130 bar from any pressure washer on a 230 volt home supply, so unless youve been using them on a different rating... maybe the nozzle might be different, who knows....how much pressure do you want...go on malcleanse website, its all explained on there. Never Doubt The Kranzle !!!!

'Remember you can not get out more than you put in.
You are restricted to your electric supply, for a domestic house that is single phase 230 volts. You can only turn this into about 120 / 130 bar pressure at about 10 lpm flow – it is imposable to get more, there is just not enough power in the supply to convert it into more pressure / flow' '


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

alexj said:


> SteveyG have you read the original thread and information on the malcleanse website


Yes. Can you show me how it is not possible to achieve a higher water pressure than 120 bar with a 230V supply instead of blindly posting the same quote over and over again?



alexj said:


> You are restricted to your electric supply, for a domestic house that is single phase 230 volts. You can only turn this into about 120 / 130 bar pressure at about 10 lpm flow - it is imposable to get more, there is just not enough power in the supply to convert it into more pressure / flow' '


Power is not limited by the supply voltage.


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## Hoppo32 (Nov 18, 2008)

alexj said:


> SteveyG have you read the original thread and information on the malcleanse website
> 
> 'Remember you can not get out more than you put in.
> You are restricted to your electric supply, for a domestic house that is single phase 230 volts. You can only turn this into about 120 / 130 bar pressure at about 10 lpm flow - it is imposable to get more, there is just not enough power in the supply to convert it into more pressure / flow' '


If this is true then how come a Nilfisk P150 on full power runs at 150 bar with a flow rate of just over 10 lpm? and yes it is a single phase machine which runs on a domestic power supply.


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## alexj (Apr 12, 2012)

Why dont you just face the facts, you might not like them but theres no need to be rude, its his quote not mine...Malcolm Smith Power Cleaning

He's been selling them for years and was recommended by a member on DW

I researched this for ages before buying my machine

http://www.malcleanse.info/index.html

Quoted from his website, if you dont believe it speak to him, I'm sure he'll help you.

'If you run "ANY MAKE" of pressure washer from a 13 amp socket you can only convert this into about 10 lpm flow at about 125 Bar.

To get more flow and/or pressure you need a three phase supply (415 volts) or an engine driven machine.

If you use an "extension lead" you must keep it as short as possible and it needs to be a heavy one - 2.5mm2 cable.'


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Because you haven't provided us with facts, just second hand conjecture. You CAN achieve high pressure from a 13A 230V outlet, if his pressure washers can't it's down to poor pump design and selection.


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## Jagnet (Dec 25, 2011)

The Nilfisk P150 1-10B really is at the absolute maximum for a 13A 230V supply. With a 2.9kW rating that's a 12.6 amp draw (a=w/v), and if I were using one I'd try to avoid using it with a long extension lead, and make sure that the extension was fully unravelled to avoid heat build up in the cable (given that most cable reels use 1.5mm flex). I've seen the crispy remains of 1.5mm cable on 3kw immersion heaters, and it's not pretty. Iirc, IEE recommendation is a max 15m extension on 1.5mm flex.

To put some maths behind it, yes there is a limit to pressure washer performance, with a trade off between flow and pressure.

125 bar = 1250 metres of water head (temperature dependant, but near as makes no difference).

Lifting x amount of water y metres requires a calculable energy input.

water energy (kWh) = volume of water (m3) x head (m) / 367

giving us the kWh required per minute to output x l/m at y pressure, from which the kW rating of any given pressure washer can be calculated assuming 100% efficiency.

Or an easier way:

water power (kW) = 9.81 x discharge (m3/s) x head (m)

So for some sample pressure washer figures:

_Kranzle K10_ = 10 l/m @ 120 bar. Connection load 2.5kW 78.8% efficient?
water power = 9.81 x 0.000167 * 1200 = 1.97 kW theoretical

_Kranzle K7 _= 7 l/m @ 120 bar. Connection load 1.6kW 86% efficient?
water power = 9.81 x 0.000117 * 1200 = 1.377 kW theoretical

_Nilfisk P150 1-10 B _= 10.2 l/m @ 150 bar. 2.9kW rated 85.7% efficient?
water power = 9.81 x 0.000169 * 1500 = 2.486 kW theoretical

The K7 and P150 appear to have very similar efficiency, with the K10 not far behind. I wouldn't say that the Nilfisk's pump is any better, simply that it pushes the output as far as it can on a 13 amp supply.

I'm no mathematician, so feel free to pick holes in my calculations, but as far as I can see the equations appear to hold up given real world examples.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Jagnet said:


> I'm no mathematician, so feel free to pick holes in my calculations, but as far as I can see the equations appear to hold up given real world examples.


 Your calculations are rougly correct, however, my main issue was that alexj was stating that the supply voltage would limit the maximum pumping power which is incorrect and you HAD to have a 400V supply to use a higher spec washer with no scientific backing. Even the Malclense webpage alexj referred to has the first product (Oertzen- 312 Profi) offering specs of 10.3 l/m at 170 bar from a 230V supply, and many people I know have 16 or 32A commando sockets in their garages for larger tools.


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## Jagnet (Dec 25, 2011)

Are such sockets becoming more commonplace now then? Yet to see anything more than 13amp in garages that I've had a nose in. Hell, even a garage with a power supply would be a nice starting point for me, let alone uprated ones


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Jagnet said:


> Are such sockets becoming more commonplace now then? Yet to see anything more than 13amp in garages that I've had a nose in.


Pretty commonplace where it's likely it'll be used as a workshop.


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## Jagnet (Dec 25, 2011)

That'd make sense :thumb:


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## -Simon- (Oct 29, 2010)

Really chuffed with my K7!!!

Tbh honest it's all about the quality you get with German manufacture, never puts a foot wrong and working brilliantly with my rain water harvesting system. This is a once in a lifetime purchase, rather than once a year if you buy too cheaply....Plus you can pass it on in your will :lol:


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## alexj (Apr 12, 2012)

I shall repeat again - two experts, Malcolm Smith (Malcleanse.co.uk) and Kranzle UK, that power as in pressure is limited by supply voltage. This is why they suggest using a 2.5 mm Extension cable.

This is a quote from Malcolm Smith 

'Remember you can not get out more than you put in.
You are restricted to your electric supply, for a domestic house that is single phase 230 volts. You can only turn this into about 120 / 130 bar pressure at about 10 lpm flow – it is imposable to get more, there is just not enough power in the supply to convert it into more pressure / flow.'

So I will stick with this information and you can choose to ignore it if you like. 

Cheers 

Here is another quote from the Pressure washing coach website

A single phase electric pressure washer will run on your domestic 240v power supply from the same 13amp wall sockets your TV will be plugged into. This means however that these pressure washers aren't very powerful because there isn't enough energy from your home electricity supply, to give you a machine that produces a flow of more than 10lpm at around 135bar. 

Many of these types of pressure washers are cheap but badly made and not built to last. The brand of Kranzle Pressure Washers is one of the exceptions to this rule, producing high quality single phase electric models, although they'll cost you more money


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Again with the second hand conjecture, show us some maths or do you believe everything you read?


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## Hoppo32 (Nov 18, 2008)

alexj said:


> You are restricted to your electric supply, for a domestic house that is single phase 230 volts. You can only turn this into about 120 / 130 bar pressure at about 10 lpm flow - it is imposable to get more, there is just not enough power in the supply to convert it into more pressure / flow.'
> 
> So I will stick with this information and you can choose to ignore it if you like.
> 
> Cheers


You are the one thats choosing to ignore facts.
The Nilfisk P150 runs at 150 bar at over 10 lpm on a 13a domestic supply, so obviously the quote above is not true.


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## Beancounter (Aug 31, 2006)

mejinks said:


> Think of it like comparing a ford focus to an *Aston Martin*. Both will get you from A to B. Both will take petrol and both can ferry you and your shopping about. However, the *Aston is better built* and looks sexier and will get you the chicks.


Not the best example using an AM, build quality on them is pants, mate has had two from new and had no end of problems :lol:

I think Kranzle is more the Audi/BMW of pressure washers:thumb:


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Beancounter said:


> Not the best example using an AM, build quality on them is pants, mate has had two from new and had no end of problems :lol:
> 
> I think Kranzle is more the Audi/BMW of pressure washers:thumb:


Wouldn't class anything VAG as reliable at all.


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## Beancounter (Aug 31, 2006)

Really ?
Had Audi's for 4 years (admittedly from new) and they didn't miss a beat, only at the garages for routine services.


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## alexj (Apr 12, 2012)

bigmc said:


> Again with the second hand conjecture, show us some maths or do you believe everything you read?


ok why dont you show me the maths yourself and prove I'm wrong (the experts are therefore wrong who I have quoted)

I think most information is second hand unless youre the next Einstein !


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Hey guys calm down:thumb:

Hope this little physics lesson helps:

The pressure washer is doing some work. The work is lifting some water (the flow rate) to a height (the pressure) To do that work it requires some power. 

You cannot get more power out than you put in.

The input power is the electricity. This is measured in kilowatts.

The electrical power is calculated by multiplying the voltage (230-240 in the uk) by the current (amps).

Thus for a 13 amp fused plug, the maximum power is 230 x 13 = 2990 watts (approx 3 kilowatts). 

Note that you can get more power from a domestic electrcity supply by having a higher rated socket. In theory if your main incoming fuse is rated at 100 amps you could power 23 kilowatts (which would be a very big pressure washer :lol.


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