# LSP Appearance Test - What would you like to see tested?



## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

Hey Everyone!

I have a unique opportunity to clean up one of our cars here at the dealership, but this isn't exactly a typical car.

tlx-pmc-lede-1554922177 (1) by brianjosephson1, on Flickr

The car is a 2020 Acura TLX PMC Edition. The reason this is special is that it is built by hand, along side the NSX. It also wears the same, multi layer Valencia Red Pearl paint that the NSX wears. This is normally a $7500 paint option, one the few shops can properly fix/repaint if you were to get into an accident. I mentioned in a random conversation about how I hate reds in general, but i would rock that paint - It's the richest red paint I have ever personally seen in person. I said that I would love to detail that paint and really make it sparkle like it's multiple layers deserve. Management seemed to agree, and since the car is just sitting on the lot waiting for the title to transfer to the dealership, they said that once it's a rolling demo I could take it home and give it the beans, so to speak.

Lately there has been a lot of discussion about gloss and different waxes/sealants/coatings ability to add gloss. I don't own a gloss meter, but I'm of the mindset that your maximum gloss is achieved through polishing. I'm not saying that LSPs can't "add gloss" so to speak, but rather believe they maybe skew/change the reflections/colours in a way that people perceive to be better.

When it comes to products to use, I have a fair few. It's at this point where I would say that if you have a product you want to see tested that I don't have, now would be the time to send it. COVID19 and shipping are not the best of friends. A few people in the past have sent me stuff to use as samples for tests, and it's really appreciated. It also makes me want to create more content and run tests as I feel a duty to give back to those that have generously given to me. Due to being laid off for as long as I was I can't go order one of each that people would like to see tested, so that's why I suggested it. If not no big deal I totally understand that during these times, finances are tight for a number of people out there and shipping stuff potentially across the pond isn't a cheap affair.

I'm not 100% sure when I'll get my hands on the car but I will potentially have flexibility in when I do end up taking it. I'm still deciding exactly how to do this, whether it's spread around the car or all done on one panel. Using taPe is the logical way to go but I want to be 100% sure that residue and product isn't left behind in a way that could damage the paint - I cannot afford a respray.

Anyway, let me know below what you would like to see tested, I'll reply if I have it or whether or not it's possible to get (Canada doesn't have as many products available as the US or UK).

Edit: Below is a video done by Larry from Ammo NYC about this special paint. He was given in depth access to the paint facility where it is applied.


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## BrianGT (Apr 11, 2020)

What a beautiful vivid colour. Enjoy!


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## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

Not really bothered what you apply mate, but properly jealous of you - looks an amazing car / colour and really looking forward to what you do with it :thumb:


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

What an opportunity! Very jealous.
For the test I think there are a few options. Perhaps the simplest and easiest to 'sell' is to go for 3 products, representative of each type of LSP - sealant, wax and coating, though how that's split on the car, I don't know. 

If you were to go for more products and split them up per panel or similar, you should try to put the most different products next to each other to try and give the best opportunity of showing a difference.

As far as what products would be good for this, try and get TAC Shinee Wax as this is the glossiest on the testers. Put that next to Fusso to see if you can see the difference. 
Otherwise, what products have distinct looks? FK1000P, a Zaino, a Zymol, Pinnacle Souveran, Victoria Concourse wax, Kamikaze Overcoat, Polish Angel 'Cherub Sweat' or whatever they put in it (joke).
Putting stuff like that next to regular products would be interesting.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

roscopervis said:


> What an opportunity! Very jealous.
> For the test I think there are a few options. Perhaps the simplest and easiest to 'sell' is to go for 3 products, representative of each type of LSP - sealant, wax and coating, though how that's split on the car, I don't know.
> 
> If you were to go for more products and split them up per panel or similar, you should try to put the most different products next to each other to try and give the best opportunity of showing a difference.
> ...


I chuckled aloud at that - good one (waits for atbalfour to come in and defend his fancy spit /s).

I am definitely looking to keep the amount of products to a minimum. Having a newborn and limited time that would be "free of responsibilities" puts some pressure on me for getting this done in a fair, honest manner for all products competing. I am going to say now that true ceramic coatings are probably not going to be in the test. Given the extra care, curing, and headaches that they can create is not something I need to deal with, especially given that I might not have much time to do the car.

I do feel that this is a great test for showing the difference between products that are labelled as glossy and not - Compare a product regarded for it's gloss against something lamented for not having any. What those products are, I leave up to the people on these boards.

FYI - I can get Shinee wax, I'll look into the costs and availability on it shortly.


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## ReyIndividual (Jul 19, 2018)

Really looking forward to how this paint turns up. What a nice colour! Subscribed to this thread. As always thanks!


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## JU5T1N (Dec 7, 2019)

Unless you have a gloss meter its mostly a pointless test, with gloss/shine it takes a 5gu difference before its visible to the human eye if you look at previous gloss meter tests most lsps and polishes are within 5gu of each other. 
With effects like jetting/depth and changes in hue its to do with the mocules of the base of each product , polymer, sio2 , carnauba or synthetic wax. So if you want depth and warmth go for a carnauba based product. Also the carrier oils of some products cause such optical effects but would be gone after the first wash anyway. 

Also judging by eye your affected by bias/placebo.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

JU5T1N said:


> Unless you have a gloss meter its mostly a pointless test, with gloss/shine it takes a 5gu difference before its visible to the human eye if you look at previous gloss meter tests most lsps and polishes are within 5gu of each other.
> With effects like jetting/depth and changes in hue its to do with the mocules of the base of each product , polymer, sio2 , carnauba or synthetic wax. So if you want depth and warmth go for a carnauba based product. Also the carrier oils of some products cause such optical effects but would be gone after the first wash anyway.
> 
> Also judging by eye your affected by bias/placebo.


Good thing I have $15,000 worth of camera gear and lighting handy to photograph sections side by side! I'm not just going to"tell" people what sections I think look best, I'm going to light, photograph, and share. All editing will be strictly controlled as well to not Colour the results. Each photo will also have a bare section (no tape residue) so all possible looks can be seen. I've done this before, and that was with worse equipment.

Also, if the human eye can't detect it, what's the point?


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## BrianGT (Apr 11, 2020)

Just make sure there is a good wax in there for us stuck in the past dudes! :lol:


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## Woodsmoke (Feb 12, 2018)

yeah a good wax, a good sealant and something like one of the spray ceramics. Personally discovered a strange fascination with pete's 53 wax currently....(im so odd)


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## JU5T1N (Dec 7, 2019)

Sheep said:


> Good thing I have $15,000 worth of camera gear and lighting handy to photograph sections side by side! I'm not just going to"tell" people what sections I think look best, I'm going to light, photograph, and share. All editing will be strictly controlled as well to not Colour the results. Each photo will also have a bare section (no tape residue) so all possible looks can be seen. I've done this before, and that was with worse equipment.
> 
> Also, if the human eye can't detect it, what's the point?


As good as your equipment and photography is we will still be viewing the photos through a monitor of varying qualitys and calibration and at that point the difference in gu before a difference is noticeable is gonna be much larger the results will be more placebo than anything, testing gloss without a gloss meter is mostly pointless your efforts would be better spent testing something else. You would actually be better off just telling us which looks better yourself as your the one physically standing in front of the car looking it would be more accurate than anyone trying to tell from a photo.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

JU5T1N said:


> Unless you have a gloss meter its mostly a pointless test, with gloss/shine it takes a 5gu difference before its visible to the human eye if you look at previous gloss meter tests most lsps and polishes are within 5gu of each other.
> With effects like jetting/depth and changes in hue its to do with the mocules of the base of each product , polymer, sio2 , carnauba or synthetic wax. So if you want depth and warmth go for a carnauba based product. Also the carrier oils of some products cause such optical effects but would be gone after the first wash anyway.
> 
> Also judging by eye your affected by bias/placebo.


So what you're basically saying is that it doesn't really matter as all products within 5gu of each other look the same so, just pick the one that gives you the best feels. Plus, after a wash, any of the 'glow' or 'shimmer' or any other subjective adjective used to describe a finish (usually of an expensive product to justify it), is gone so get your gloss from polishing better?


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

JU5T1N said:


> As good as your equipment and photography is we will still be viewing the photos through a monitor of varying qualitys and calibration and at that point the difference in gu before a difference is noticeable is gonna be much larger the results will be more placebo than anything, testing gloss without a gloss meter is mostly pointless your efforts would be better spent testing something else. You would actually be better off just telling us which looks better yourself as your the one physically standing in front of the car looking it would be more accurate than anyone trying to tell from a photo.


If I photograph 2 sections in the same photo, they would then be relevant to one another as the conditions were the same (same camera exposure, setting, edit). Yes, individual monitors would have different calibration levels, but you could also download the photos and have them printed if you want to compare the true image.

Either way, if one product was a clear stand out winners in this regard, it would show up in this scenario.


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

Happy to send you something for this test


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

The_Bouncer said:


> Happy to send you something for this test


Awesome! PM sent!


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## JU5T1N (Dec 7, 2019)

roscopervis said:


> So what you're basically saying is that it doesn't really matter as all products within 5gu of each other look the same so, just pick the one that gives you the best feels. Plus, after a wash, any of the 'glow' or 'shimmer' or any other subjective adjective used to describe a finish (usually of an expensive product to justify it), is gone so get your gloss from polishing better?


Not all products but certainly alot of them, there are objective gloss tests around so you can choose an objectively glossy product how fussy someone wants to be with that is up to them. Not all the optical effects will come from the left over carrier of the product and some products will wipe off very cleanly and leave next to nothing behind it mostly depends on the individual product I think. Theres no doubt your get better gloss with polishing or with a glaze the poorboys glaze actually exceeded the gloss levels from machine polishing.


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## JU5T1N (Dec 7, 2019)

Sheep said:


> If I photograph 2 sections in the same photo, they would then be relevant to one another as the conditions were the same (same camera exposure, setting, edit). Yes, individual monitors would have different calibration levels, but you could also download the photos and have them printed if you want to compare the true image.
> 
> Either way, if one product was a clear stand out winners in this regard, it would show up in this scenario.


The light source/ light reflections would also have to be exactly the same, the only thing that might show from a photo is a change in hue from a carnuaba wax, the actual gloss levels there would have to be a big difference like 10+gu to be noticeable in photo.

I would suggest keeping the products anonymous and simply calling them product a,b,c etc so people don't just choose there favourites. I expect if you ask people to pick the glossyist product the results will be nothing more than guesses.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

JU5T1N said:


> The light source/ light reflections would also have to be exactly the same, the only thing that might show from a photo is a change in hue from a carnuaba wax, the actual gloss levels there would have to be a big difference like 10+gu to be noticeable in photo.
> 
> I would suggest keeping the products anonymous and simply calling them product a,b,c etc so people don't just choose there favourites. I expect if you ask people to pick the glossyist product the results will be nothing more than guesses.


That's what I plan on doing, I have multiple flashes, reflectors, and can even use sun light. And I always keep the products anonymous.


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

JU5T1N said:


> Unless you have a gloss meter its mostly a pointless test, with gloss/shine it takes a 5gu difference before its visible to the human eye if you look at previous gloss meter tests most lsps and polishes are within 5gu of each other.
> 
> With effects like jetting/depth and changes in hue its to do with the mocules of the base of each product , polymer, sio2 , carnauba or synthetic wax. So if you want depth and warmth go for a carnauba based product. Also the carrier oils of some products cause such optical effects but would be gone after the first wash anyway.
> 
> Also judging by eye your affected by bias/placebo.


All your comments refer to a gloss meter  i get your point but but it's not all about gloss, richness and wetness can make the paint look great too 

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

Great idea,look forward to it. try something ceramic, a sealant,wax then a topper, like bead maker 

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


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## JU5T1N (Dec 7, 2019)

pt1 said:


> All your comments refer to a gloss meter  i get your point but but it's not all about gloss, richness and wetness can make the paint look great too
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


If depth and jetting is more your thing then just go for a natural wax based product, its simply a optical effect caused by the egg-grate type molecule composition of natural waxes. Or the depth and jetting could be caused by the leftover carrier oils of some products but will be gone after a wash.


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

JU5T1N said:


> If depth and jetting is more your thing then just go for a natural wax based product, its simply a optical effect caused by the egg-grate type molecule composition of natural waxes. Or the depth and jetting could be caused by the leftover carrier oils of some products but will be gone after a wash.


I will keep that in mind, thanks

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


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## NorthantsPete (May 18, 2016)

Sheep said:


> Hey Everyone!
> 
> I have a unique opportunity to clean up one of our cars here at the dealership, but this isn't exactly a typical car.
> 
> ...


Gloss is one thing but if it glosses up your scratches like Sonax BSD or their wax, then its pointless.

Id like to see something thats glossy and dumbs down scratches so you see them less

example - if you get meguirs tyre gel, put it on a scratch, I cant see it at all.. even the deepest ones - theres soemthing in that!


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

I finally made time to work on this car and get the test/comparison going, and then after washing it this morning before work, it was booked out for 3 days....

Uuugggghhhhh. I have preemptively reserved the car for next Saturday to get this test started. I know of at least 2 products I will be comparing, and will decide the next ones this week leading up to the test.

Here's some photos after the wash. It's been in loaner car duty for a couple months now and it's realllly in need of a proper detail. Gloss Black rims plus wheel brushes = terrrriible paint.

Untitled by brianjosephson1, on Flickr

Untitled by brianjosephson1, on Flickr

Untitled by brianjosephson1, on Flickr


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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

Sheep said:


> Hey Everyone!
> 
> I have a unique opportunity to clean up one of our cars here at the dealership, but this isn't exactly a typical car.
> 
> ...


What a beautiful paint job!!


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

OK!

The car was polished this morning, and all the test sections were applied. When I say the car was polished, I mean the test areas (front fenders to rear quarters - roof, hood, trunk, and rear bumper still need to be polished). This was necessary as I was already starting this at 6:00am and had to be ready to work by 9:00am. Some of the products needed to cure and I basically ran up to 8:55am before I finished. Eventually I will get the rest of the car done and put up some completed shots. Overall the paint was very easy to work with, and there was minimal RDS's so the end results are quite good. I started with White Foam CCS pads and Hyper Polish, before settling on a MF pad and a combo of Megs UC and Hyper polish, as some areas had heavier wash marks. I will probably go over the whole car again in the future to get that last bits on some of the doors, but it was around 90-95% defect removal, with some panels at 100%.

Photographing these defects was rather difficult, even with the big boy camera and dual LED flood lights. Hopefully when I get the photos on the computer i can see more clearly how they turned out, but it just goes to show you that when you prep properly, the results are already at a very high level.

Couple teaser images from the phone in the mean time. These were shot on a iPhone 12 Pro Max using the new Apple ProRAW format and edited on the phone. For some reason, they look like a potato on my work computer so for final shots hold out for the big camera photos.

Untitled by brianjosephson1, on Flickr

Untitled by brianjosephson1, on Flickr

Untitled by brianjosephson1, on Flickr


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