# 'An almost perfect paint finish' achievable by Newbies



## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

I will probably only ever detail two or three cars in my lifetime. After I bought a DAS -6 pro dual action polisher some 5 weeks ago, I started looking for a ********** guide explaining exactly what to do, and, as far as practical, how to do it. I was unable to find one. As a consequence I thought I would do a post to provide those new to car detailing, like myself, a simple record of at least what worked for me supported by some photographs of the finished paintwork. Prior to this I have only ever attempted to detail one car - the background of which can be found on Detailing World forum thread entitled 'before I destroy my paintwork'. In light of that first attempt (which was actually pretty successful) my current approach has been significantly amended in terms of product selection.
Having had some difficulty with the durability of my foam polishing pads I finally plumped for micro fibre pads which, from my reading of the forums, are deemed to be significantly more durable and versatile - especially when going to be used on the Audi's fairly hard clear coat. I ended up buying pads manufactured by Meguiars, as they always seem to get a pretty good write up and appear to be roughly the same price as all the others.
For my previous detail I had used a polish which I later discovered contained oils. These temporarily hid some minor scratches, and I later discovered these oils were both capable of inhibiting the final paint sealer and could also be difficult to remove completely even with an alcohol solution! As a consequence, this time I ended up buying one of the new water based polishes which do not appear to have either of those problems.
I eventually plumped for four 'Xpert' products (including the Titanium 11 sealer) which should cover the full gambit of my detailing - no matter what happens to the car. This new polishing technology apparently contains micro particles which the company claims give a very clear paint finish that has been winning detailing competitions for some time in the US. Selecting products from the same manufacturer keeps it simple and has the advantage of me not having to research which manufacturers products go with which. 
All four products chosen are 'one step', but have the additional advantage of being complementary - in that they can be used together. So, instead of having to do 3 procedures, you can combine the Ultra 1000 (used for medium / heavy correction), with both the high tech1500 (used as a finishing polish), and also the jewelling polish into one procedure. The finished product can then be sealed with Titanium 11, which, having watched the video, seems pretty quick to apply and gives a very deep shine which is deemed to last between a year to eighteen months.
In practice, as I am retired and only detailing one car, I intend to apply each product individually - as I want the finished paintwork to look as clear as possible. 
The big attractions to me of the products are the manufacturer's claims that they are virtually incapable of burning my paint. They are transparent - so I can see exactly what I am removing at the time of machining. They contain no fillers or oils, will not cause swirls, and are capable of giving an award winning finish. It almost sounds too good to be true! Anyway, we should all be able to judge just how good or bad the finished product is after the detail is complete and the photos posted. 
I hope this thread will be of some use to other novices. Detailing seems to have the potential to be such a rewarding exercise it would be satisfying to do it correctly.
TheMac


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## Karl woods (Mar 15, 2012)

If you want a very detailed and comprehensive guide to polishing and detailing in general you wouldn't go far wrong taking a look at one of Mike Philips books .


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## cossiecol (Jun 29, 2014)

You can also search You Tube for The Junkman's guide to polishing, it's very informative.

His handle is Junkman2000


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

TheMac said:


> *I started looking for a guide* explaining exactly what to do, and, as far as practical, how to do it. I was unable to find one.


With the greatest of respect, you didn't try very hard. Just look at the thread
titles in this section. They have been stickies for years, for good reason!

Your post sounds like a way of avoiding DW's product promotion rules...

Regards,
Steve


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Lowiepete said:


> Your post sounds like a way of avoiding DW's product promotion rules...
> 
> Regards,
> Steve


Spot on Pete.:thumb:


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

I must say my interest in detailing is transient and only relates to 2 vehicles my son's and my own. Whenever my car is complete so will be my involvement in detailing. Also the products used this time are completely different than those used by me in my only previous attempt. Hopefully no one will think that this constitutes a pattern nor will the contents of this thread offend anyone.
There may be thousands of products available that could do a similar or better job I have no idea but it would be a shame to find something that works and not be able to share it with other novices. 
I intend to split the work undertaken into the days that it occurred. It will be easier for anyone following and, I suspect, a lot less daunting.
Day 1
I clay barred the car for some 3 hours and followed this up by using the Xpert 1000 mixed with the 1500 at a ratio of approximately two pea sized drops to one drop. The 
1500 is wetter and provides an element of gloss and I think is sometimes used as a finishing agent. I spread the product at speed one and cross hatched it for 2 minutes at speed 5, 1 minute at speed 4, 3&2 and then spent two minutes doing the same slowly at speed 1.
The Meguiars micro fibre cutting pads were used for this procedure and the area machined at each stage was approximately 2 foot square or half a car door.


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

I did't rate the xpert system at all,and I don't know of one compound that dosen't leave a residue behind i.e fillers,as for your previous experience you should've used IPA or Pw to remove the oils.


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

suspal said:


> I did't rate the xpert system at all,and I don't know of one compound that dosen't leave a residue behind i.e fillers,as for your previous experience you should've used IPA or Pw to remove the oils.


Yes I know that now but I did not then. I do not need to worry about oils with water based products which makes it a lot simpler when starting out.


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Water based stuff can still have fillers.
And they are nastier than the oil based when it comes to lsp they often reject the lsp with some spectacular results over a few days making you look a right ****


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

By way of background although the products can be used separately as one step or in sequence i.e. 1000, 1500, 3000 etc, or even together, I had read a post on one of the forums that they could be mixed to personal preference. I contacted the poster who is a professional detailer and who was good enough to suggest the mixes that he thought would probably work best with my Audi's clear coat.

Additionally I have to say that I appreciate that anyone who would be foolish enough to come on a forum populated by professional detailers and suggest that he was capable of achieving a near perfect paint finish at second attempt and with a £100 machine would be naive in the extreme. Hence the quotes in the title. The thread is really to attract the attention of novices who, if they are like me, just want to use their newly purchased polishers as soon as they get their hands on them without initially having to spend weeks researching articles, videos and conflicting posts all over the net first (which to a large extent I did anyway). The objective of this post is to give the opportunity for us first time novices to achieve what we might consider 'an almost perfect finish' while minimising the chances of us damaging the paintwork in our enthusiasm.

Day 2 

I used the 1500 Ultra polish in the ratio of 3 pea sized drops to 1 drop of Jewelling 3000 polish. The Jewelling polish is even wetter than the 1500 and is used to clarify and shine paint. The same method of machining was used as in day 1. If the products during any of the procedures described appeared to be disappearing and the paintwork was becoming dry at any stage I just added a little more. This step was undertaken with a blue hex logic finishing pad which came with the machine and apparently has a ppi rating (perforations per square inch - I think) of 80 or more. I understand that the higher the ppi the greater the shine. My experience of finding out ppi ratings of pads even from the people selling them was that it was almost impossible.

The above process was repeated with just the 3000 polish on its own. For this procedure I used a black hex logic pad which is slightly softer and presumably has a greater ppi rating than the blue. 
The slower I moved the machine the better the results in terms of shine appeared to become. At this stage I found that the flake in the paint became very prominent and the clarity of the paint increased significantly.


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Ok for the perfect look go over it a couple of times with 3000 ( or higher )What you are looking for us the clearcoat to look like its " floating" on the flake.. The look when you achieve it is well you have to see it in the flesh. You car looks like its got a layer of glass on it instead if paint.
Perfection is only as good as YOU want it a few rds marks are not the end of the world really, its about the overall look not a half inch section under the rear numberplate. Whilst YOU know they are there how many others do?? How many others would look that closely?


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

The clear coat is definitely floating probably from the original application of the 1000. If it was not floating a long time ago I would have tossed the products in the bin. No marring or scratches from the products if that is what rds are. See my post below.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

TheMac said:


> The slower I moved the machine the better the results in terms of shine appeared to become.


I'm surprised and very happy that you've learned the secret of polishing so quickly! Well done! :thumb:


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Its such a common mistake to move too quickly.
Slower is always better. You often find that you get a bit lazy towards the end and speed up but resist temptation


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

Day 3
I applied 3 pea sized drops of the Jewelling polish with 1 drop of the Titanium sealer. At this stage the back of my black hex logic pad had separated and after a couple of attempts at repair had to be discarded. As a consequence the blue hex logic was used instead. I followed exactly the same procedure as previously. The gloss on the paintwork was showing distinct signs of further increasing.

I had enquired as to how to apply the Titanium 11 (two) which is the last stage of the detail. Matt Gibb in Australia who I understand has a role with R&D for Xpert products posted a video to explain the steps. You can not get much more helpful than that! The video can be found at 



This was the easiest stage of the detail and made a significant difference to the overall gloss and finished product but do note that no water must get near the Titanium coat on the car for 24 to 48 hours.
At this stage I used a Lake Country Gold 100ppi pad which is one of the very few advertising the ppi. The higher the ppi the greater the shine.

Finally I applied a very thin coating of the Titanium by hand and left it for a couple of days before wiping off by hand with a micro fibre cloth.


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

The final product
The paint, which seems extremely pure and glossy with an abundance of flake, shows no sign of any marring or hazing from the machining. The clear coat certainly gives the impression of floating above the paint which to me would be an absolute necessity. The exercise itself was fairly time consuming taking approx 24 hours but I quite enjoyed the challenge. My only reservation in the whole process was that the correction undertaken with my random orbital did not take out some of the minor scratches on the bonnet. These are few in number and in straight lines so were not caused by the machining and I can only spot them if the sun is at a certain angle. I think that the reason for this may be the Audi's very hard clear coat and / or the fact that my polishing machine is just not powerful enough. 
It has been suggested elsewhere that the use of a rotary may have been better for the correction stage of the process but that is way beyond both my skill level and finances although apparently the products are almost incapable of burning the paint if that is a significant factor.
I had considered giving the 1000 product to a professional to apply by rotary at some date in the future just in case it would magically transform the paintwork into looking like a sheet of glass. I took the car to a professional detailer (of some 14 years) to-day but his opinion was that the paintwork could not be made much, if any, better! 
To achieve a level of detail that would satisfy even a local professional detailer by using a £100 machine and being as inept as myself is probably not a bad recommendation for the choice of products used and approach followed. 
Anyway, the final stage to this post is going to be the most difficult as I try to upload a couple of photos of the finished product. Working this laptop is like a black art to me. Also getting a finish that will satisfy a local detailer is unlikely to be the same as producing one that is up to DW standards! Nevertheless, it may be okay for us novices. Is it 'a near perfect finish'? I really do not know but it is probably the best paint finish I have seen in real life.
Try to be gentle with your comments.
TheMac


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

Can anyone explain how to post photos please?


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## Rammy (Sep 3, 2014)

TheMac said:


> Can anyone explain how to post photos please?


Sign up to photo bucket / Flickr etc 
Upload photo 
Copy image code from photo bucket 
Paste in post :thumb:


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## camerashy (Feb 9, 2014)

Many Thanks for posting your work flow it has been really interesting and very pleased you are happy with the final results look forward to seeing the images
Dave


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Good on ya mate.
At least you took your time.
As for the bonnet. Maybe a few more goes at stage 1 & 2 could have removed them rds's it is time consuming with a da but as you see sitting on your drive very satisfying to achieve a decent level of gloss. 
Now take it for a drive and have fun watching heads turn lol ( just dont get carried away looking at the reflection in the shop windows and stack the front end )


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

I will try again.


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

Hope this works


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## scottk (Apr 1, 2014)

Very nice. Good work.


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## CLCC (Nov 18, 2010)

If you want an "almost perfect paint finish" then I would say that you need to look at orange peel removal. If you look on the 2nd picture, just above the S-line badge you can see a reflection of the window. Instead of the lines being straight (as I am sure the window is) the lines look a bit wavy The same can be seen to the below and to the right of the S-line badge with the highlight from the sun contrasting with the parts of the garage in shade, again this should be a sharply defined and straight, but isn't. This is due to "orange peel".

To say that you have not removed it is in no way an attempt to criticise what you have achieved so far, I, like a lot of people here, have not wet sanded my car to remove the orange peel that I have on my car. However, I would not claim to have an almost perfect paint finish, as I think that orange peel does hold me back. I am considering the idea of trying some wet sanding, but as I don't have a paint thickness gauge, and the car is in daily use and racks up a lot of business miles, I am not sure how clever an idea it is for someone with my low level of experience to be attempting, but that is a discussion for another thread.


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

I had actually come across a video which included reference to orange peel reduction / removal and thought that the Audi probably had orange peel on the bonnet but had really paid it no more attention. With reference to your post the thought of me, sand paper and paintwork would almost certainly be a recipe for disaster. Nevertheless, I might consider addressing this problem the next time I detail the car but that will not be for at least another year or so.
What might be of some interest to both of us is a video which appears to reduce orange peel by using the Jewelling polish (which I already have). I had watched the video to get tips on how to use the product but it seemed to be capable of reducing the amount of orange peel fairly significantly albeit with some fancy cutting pad which I do not possess but presumably which I could now buy. It would certainly be a safer option for me and make any potential damage to the paintwork much less likely. 
An excellent point and well taken.


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

I have tracked down the video part 1 & 2 if this works - see below
Xpert Jewelling polish 001 - YouTube




Xpert Jewelling polish 002 - YouTube


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

That will work on plastic panels but not metal ones. that is my video from a few years ago.


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## TheMac (Aug 1, 2014)

CLCC
I understand that although reducing orange peel is likely to give more colour richness the depth of paint is also likely to be reduced. Additionally if some of the peel is in the colour coats and not just the clear coat it will not be fixable anyway. Against that background together with even the remotest possibility of me having to use sandpaper on the car's bodywork I think I will forego my previous proposal to tackle orange peel correction.


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