# Honestly think I will stop using paste wax...



## Floyd (Jan 1, 2015)

just been out in the garage and spent 4 hours leveling and polishing the paint with the DA and my new microfibre cutting pads and chemical guys hex finishing pad. The paint looked absolutely stunning....really brought the colour back with it being 99.9% corrected. 

After all my hard work, I thought 'lets try again with the Victoria Concours red wax, and use it as thin as possible, as this is the only thing I can try different with this wax as everytime I have applied it, it leaves the same holograms'.....

I put it on with a brand new G3 waffle applicator pad, and put it on so thin, that you could just about see that anything was on there , in fact it looked like nothing was there in some parts.
Wiped it off with a clean microfibre and it looks pretty awesome.

Took it to the petrol station, got out of the car and there it is again, scratches the whole length of the bonnet and holograms from the wax......

it really seems like it is just me who cannot physically use this wax, as everytime I have watched vids and googled other people using this wax, they get on with it so well.....

I give up..


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## Scrim-1- (Oct 8, 2008)

if there is holograms from the wax then you aint fully removing it.

remove it with a normal short pile mf then go over the car again with another fresh cloth.


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## cossiecol (Jun 29, 2014)

Scratches from the wax? Seems unlikely, most likely you've had something on your applicator or your MF.

As for holograms Scrim advice is sound IMO.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Have you been removing the oils after polishing?


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Victoria Concours is quite an oily wax,I found it needed quite a few buffs before it removed all the residue.


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## Floyd (Jan 1, 2015)

Yeh I re went over it numerous times as I could see lines where the wax was still there that hadnt been fully removed, and I used a IPA wipe over the bonnet before removing, yet still issues with it.....


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

You used ipa after applying the wax or before?


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## Floyd (Jan 1, 2015)

Kimo said:


> You used ipa after applying the wax or before?


before


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## Jcwminiadventures (Dec 3, 2011)

Floyd said:


> before


That will b your answer then it's not the wax

If you've polished then used ipa that will strip everything & youll b bck to bare paint so show the previous holograms you've just polished out

Never use ipa b4 wax

I'm sure that's correct isn't it correct me if I'm wrong


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## Floyd (Jan 1, 2015)

Mii s mad said:


> That will b your answer then it's not the wax
> 
> If you've polished then used ipa that will strip everything & youll b bck to bare paint so show the previous holograms you've just polished out
> 
> ...


Youy should normally use IPA before wax and after polishing as it will remove any polish particles that are left, and could be acting as a glaze / filling any swirls. The IPA strips all of the compound / polish you have used before, leaving a completely bare panel ready to allow the wax to bond


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## Floyd (Jan 1, 2015)

On a side note, you are right in saying that it will take you back to bare paint, to show previous holograms, but if you have corrected properly, there should be no holograms / swirls left anyway. The only time IPA would take you back to previous holograms is if you are not correcting paint, and just glazing it, which would just fill in the swirls not remove them.


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## Rascal_69 (Sep 20, 2009)

Buy swissvax you won't get that problem I promise 

No wax smears or anything 

Swissvax are the best wax in use


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## Yellow Dave (Apr 5, 2011)

Holograms are easily dealt with, the more worrying part about your post is the claim of scratches! Forget the holograms until you resolve this issue


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## Floyd (Jan 1, 2015)

There is a vid I shot of 50/50 on the bonnet, so you can see the paint was perfectly correct before application of wax. Using the same make and pack of microfibre cloths to remove the compound / polish. Then applied the wax with a new microfibre from the same pack and BOOM....scratches/holograms.....what.....???


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## cossiecol (Jun 29, 2014)

Not meaning to sound cheeky here but are you sure you corrected the paint fully first, and checked it after the IPA wipe down and prior to the application of the wax?


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## Floyd (Jan 1, 2015)

cossiecol said:


> Not meaning to sound cheeky here but are you sure you corrected the paint fully first, and checked it after the IPA wipe down and prior to the application of the wax?


yeh, paint was checked and was clear of all swirls - until I applied the wax with a brand new applicator waffle pad, (G3)

The wax left a huge streak mark down the middle of the bonnet, and I lightly buffed it with short pile MF. and then low and behold....holograms/scratch...


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## cossiecol (Jun 29, 2014)

Floyd said:


> yeh, paint was checked and was clear of all swirls - until I applied the wax with a brand new applicator waffle pad, (G3)
> 
> The wax left a huge streak mark down the middle of the bonnet, and I lightly buffed it with short pile MF. and then low and behold....holograms/scratch...


Dare I say it sounds like the MF's may be responsible for the marks then.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

I think the problems occurring through the wax not curing properly and in turn you're buffing too much with a rough cloth

That's all i can put it down to


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## Floyd (Jan 1, 2015)

Kimo said:


> I think the problems occurring through the wax not curing properly and in turn you're buffing too much with a rough cloth
> 
> That's all i can put it down to


How long would you recommend leaving the Victorias concours red wax to cure before buffing?


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Temperature and humidity play a big part

Just keep finger swiping it


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

I do a panel at a time and then leave for a minute or so and remove.
Vics is very oily and only needs to be applied very very thinly.

Repeat 24hrs later.

Victoria wax is my personal favourite wax of all time. Outstanding durability and insane beading.

Gorgeous product that is worth it's weight in gold.


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## pete001 (Dec 21, 2006)

Can't believe nobody hasn't recommended using a QD following waxing I thought this was standard procedure.

As stated above Vics red has a oily nature, and I have found it can sometimes be tricky to apply especially in cold/damp conditions and may require extended curing time to allow for this.

After waxing if you think you may be left with wax holograms try using a quality QD Zaino Z6 is ideal .If you're still left with holograms after this then it won't be caused by the wax and will more than likely be holograms/scratches in your butter soft Vauxhall paint.

Poor quality M/F cloths may have caused the scratches

Just a few points...

Make sure you are using top qaulity M/F cloths especially on soft paints Gtechniq 70/30 blend are ideal for removing polish/wax residue

Don't overload your wax applicator keep a small nail brush handy and periodically gently scrub the pad to avoid clogging.

IPA? I think carpro eraser is way better its made for the job.

If all else fails and you can't get on with waxes perhaps you can consider a sealant Finish Kare FK1000p or Menzerna Power Lock both very easy to apply and remove well suited for soft paint both require very minimal buffing.

Please note what i have stated above are based on my findings other members opinions may/will vary.

HTH's :thumb:


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## REVERSiN (Sep 28, 2015)

Can I be rude and ask what polish did you use in both pads for polishing ? 
There is no way in he'll that waxing would leave such holograms unless it's not cured which means again wait more and wipe the rest but you seem to have another problem.

Btw what car is it, was your paint hard or soft when polishing..

Your video shows the paint isn't fully corrected you have small swirls probably from heavy compounding you can see the light going sideways when it should have been a for.


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

are the scratches in the same place? how did you check that they were all gone in the first place? major bummer and annoying feeling after you have put so much hardwork in only to find you back at square one only down on time and products. any doubt i'd just try and remove all possibles, so polish again, panel wipe or eraser, using new decent microfibre gently, then way new applicator light pressure and again new decent microfibre. But before all this after polish and wipe down i'd check double check if possible garage lights etc..... give you the best chance of spotting uncorrected paint work as the sun probably isn't going to make an appearance.


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## Dougnorwich (Jun 27, 2014)

How long did it take you too 99.9% correct your car


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## MAUI (Feb 1, 2008)

Dougnorwich said:


> How long did it take you too 99.9% correct your car


Your point being that you can't get 99.9% correction?


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

removing whats there not 99% perfect but that all depends on the severity of what your faced with

guessing not long enough, therfore not working polishes enough to breakdown so not achieving full correction polish filling when checked looks good, remove polsih IPA and wax looks no better than the start?


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

I don't believe in qd's when waxing.

Messes with the characteristics amalgamating another product.


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## ninja250r (Jun 3, 2015)

DJ X-Ray said:


> I don't believe in qd's when waxing.
> 
> Messes with the characteristics amalgamating another product.


Think he means a QD without wax. Like a claybar lube. Sometimes I have gone over the wax with same applicator pad. Like wax on wax off straight away.


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## Berylburton (Sep 14, 2013)

I am thinking this is just re-gassing of the wax. If that is the case some ice cold distilled water and a very short nap cloth does the business. 

I only use wax on one of my cars as the others have a coating on. I use FK1000p and have no issues with this at all.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

ninja250r said:


> Think he means a QD without wax. Like a claybar lube. Sometimes I have gone over the wax with same applicator pad. Like wax on wax off straight away.


I just feel that any qd/chemical spray of any kind will interfere with the lsp, especially during curing.

Waxing a car is one of the most simplest things you can do and I have honestly never felt the need to reach for any sprays to aid that.

I personally, only use a qd (AG Rapid Detailer) on very rare occasions like if protection has dropped off so much and I CBA to wax. But even then it's only if I have ran out of Aqua Wax.


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## Floyd (Jan 1, 2015)

DJ X-Ray said:


> I just feel that any qd/chemical spray of any kind will interfere with the lsp, especially during curing.
> 
> Waxing a car is one of the most simplest things you can do and I have honestly never felt the need to reach for any sprays to aid that.
> 
> I personally, only use a qd (AG Rapid Detailer) on very rare occasions like if protection has dropped off so much and I CBA to wax. But even then it's only if I have ran out of Aqua Wax.


That is in fact the most fustrating thing - I love detailing mine and others cars, and find that the correction is the most enjoyable part, especially seeing the results I get with my microfibre cutting pads, and the finish it gives after using the black hex pad I use. And I seem to get a nice finish regardless of what polish/compound I use. The part I do not look forward too is the waxing, just due to this issue with the wax I am using, and so many others have said how easy it is to use. yet I seem to have such an issue with it. really gets on my nerves


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## Floyd (Jan 1, 2015)

Especially considering, waxing should be the most enjoyable part to see and emphasise all the hard work you have just done....to see it all pop out!


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

Kimo said:


> Temperature and humidity play a big part
> 
> Just keep finger swiping it


Bang on Kimo:thumb:, I use Vic's a lot and I have just completed a detail on a GTO and found that the Temperature does play a big part in removing it, so it looks like you have wax smears when you remove it so if so leave it till the next day then remove with a quality M/F towel, but if you have soft paint and the more you try to remove you will inflict marring by trying to hard on soft paint:wall:. Maybe the best thing to do is to strip back the wax and start again, best trying FK 1000p:thumb:


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

A bit off topic, but recently I struggled to get fusso to work for me. I had issues with bad smearing and gassing out. Changed my methods, applicator pads etc. Read up loads on it, the more I read the more I think I had a bad batch of fusso. Gone back to 476 now. Its great to use a product that acts as its supposed to, gives you the results you deserve after all the hard work. Buddy I'd try a different wax and go from there.


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

DJ X-Ray said:


> I just feel that any qd/chemical spray of any kind will interfere with the lsp, especially during curing.
> 
> Waxing a car is one of the most simplest things you can do and I have honestly never felt the need to reach for any sprays to aid that.
> 
> I personally, only use a qd (AG Rapid Detailer) on very rare occasions like if protection has dropped off so much and I CBA to wax. But even then it's only if I have ran out of Aqua Wax.


I'm the same. Once its properly waxed, I tend to just use AquaWax as a drying aid / top up for a month or three, till it looks like the car needs deep cleaning and waxing again.

I have got AG Rapid Detailer and PM Quick Detailer, but I only use them really for cleaning bird poop off the car.

For some reason I cant explain, I have found that once the car is freshly waxed (usually AG HD ) and buffed off, it seems to become a tiny bit shinier and better looking if you run a gentle spray of cold water from the hose pipe over it for a minute or so - maybe this hardens the wax up ?


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## Floyd (Jan 1, 2015)

GleemSpray said:


> I'm the same. Once its properly waxed, I tend to just use AquaWax as a drying aid / top up for a month or three, till it looks like the car needs deep cleaning and waxing again.
> 
> I have got AG Rapid Detailer and PM Quick Detailer, but I only use them really for cleaning bird poop off the car.
> 
> For some reason I cant explain, I have found that once the car is freshly waxed (usually AG HD ) and buffed off, it seems to become a tiny bit shinier and better looking if you run a gentle spray of cold water from the hose pipe over it for a minute or so - maybe this hardens the wax up ?


True that, it has rained today , and all last night, and I checked the paint this morning and it looked 10 million times better as if the rain had washed some of the wax away, maybe its a combination of a lot of things the guys have brought up. I will persevere


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

You should change your wax. Have a look BH Finis-wax or Double Speed-wax. Fk pink is nice also.


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## Floyd (Jan 1, 2015)

Ive also been looking at the chemical guys butterwet wax, i dunno if anyone has tried that....


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## Hereisphilly (Nov 17, 2014)

I hate to say it but the reason for the holograms reappearing after waxing is because the paint is not corrected

In my opinion, 4 hours for what sounds like a 2 stage polish is not enough time to ensure a full correction. You would need to at least double more like triple the amount of time allocated to do a good job

IPA does not remove polishing oils from some polishes, your sure fire way is to use panel wipe, that will 100% remove any fillers and you can check that your paint is corrected before application of wax. If swirls are still present, then you need to polish again

Once you are happy and all oils are removed, then using a clean applicator and MF cloth will make sure no damage occurs when you put the wax down

Use the finger swipe test to see that the wax has cured, then buff off, job done


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## Floyd (Jan 1, 2015)

Hereisphilly said:


> I hate to say it but the reason for the holograms reappearing after waxing is because the paint is not corrected
> 
> In my opinion, 4 hours for what sounds like a 2 stage polish is not enough time to ensure a full correction. You would need to at least double more like triple the amount of time allocated to do a good job
> 
> ...


4 hours of the paint correction was just purely on bonnet and front bumper/splitter. This wasnt a whole car job.

I had stripped the compound/polish off after doing 2 passes, and could see there were no swirls/marring left in the paint. the holograms only appeared on the bonnet. the bumper was perfect.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

You can finger wipe all you want but not with Vic's red, to much moisture in the air, just change your wax or apply a sealant.


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## dillinja999 (Aug 26, 2013)

what cloths are you using to remove wax


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## Bulkhead (Oct 17, 2007)

I have to admit that Vic's red could be a bit fussy with removal. Usually by it being too thickly applied but it can be difficult to get it on very thinly. I have recently switched from paste waxes - various Dodo, Vic's etc. and have been using Primo's Hydro Max spray sealant, together with the dedicated wash and QD. I'm very impressed with them - they can be applied in a fraction of the time and last impressively well, at least over here! No issues with gassing or streaking and no waiting for curing. I'm still a bit of a traditionalist and love Dodo SNH so when I'm out of Hydro Max, I'll give it another go to compare back to back. I have a feeling I'll be putting another order in for Hydro Max though!


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

Bulkhead said:


> I have to admit that Vic's red could be a bit fussy with removal. Usually by it being too thickly applied but it can be difficult to get it on very thinly. I have recently switched from paste waxes - various Dodo, Vic's etc. and have been using Primo's Hydro Max spray sealant, together with the dedicated wash and QD. I'm very impressed with them - they can be applied in a fraction of the time and last impressively well, at least over here! No issues with gassing or streaking and no waiting for curing. I'm still a bit of a traditionalist and love Dodo SNH so when I'm out of Hydro Max, I'll give it another go to compare back to back. I have a feeling I'll be putting another order in for Hydro Max though!


That's food for thought. I use megs ultimate qwik wax (spray wax/sealant) . I think its a great product. I can spray wax my whole car in five mins. So if traditional waxing takes say one hour per coat (on and off). I could spray wax once a month for a year in the same time it takes to apply/take off one coat of wax which probably wouldn't last a year really. 
Maybe I should save the paste wax for my wheels and just use spray wax/sealant on bodywork.


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

Autoglym AquaWax - fantastric stuff used as a drying aid,which speeds up the wash & dry process - quick spray on and buff off then it shines and protects for two to three weeks


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

So obviously we are not there and can not guarantee what is going on. But what i can say is that you need to replace your cloths 100% The video shows oils still on the panel, you can see the way the light follows them. If its not picking up the oils from a polish i can say for sure it wont fully buff vics red. The wax is even more oily in nature. 
So this is only an assumption, but based on the above i think that you are chasing the oils from the wax around the panel, and the more you do it, the more chance you have of putting marring back in. 

Based on the above assumption i would say change your cloths, job one. Then try again with your waxing. Try doing 3 layers, an hour apart, then re buff the final layer with a qd like vics or zymol. These are wax based also so shouldn't mess with the aesthetics to much 

Give it a try, whats the worst that can happen


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## Floyd (Jan 1, 2015)

Thanks all, some good ideas and good recommendations too, I will swap cloths, try another few times, and also I wouldn't mind trying a sealant underneath it see how that makes it look.


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## wilbz11 (Jun 23, 2006)

i've had this before with oily waxes, I usually just wash the car again 24 hours later and the wax holograms are gone.


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## Lewis. (Feb 26, 2008)

Cleaning black cars is an absolute Facking nightmare. I'd never have another black car. I spent a whole day paint correcting my black s3 once and even the lightest wipe with a microfibre would add small scratches to the finish again. You need brand new clothes every time to do this property without marking the paint. I've also tried loads of posh waxes and found them to be a nightmare too. The best results I've had from £9.99 meguairs nxt wax from halfords, and it outlasts all the others I've tried too (dodo juice, (other stuff with a fish on the tin but I can't remember what it's called). I've recently been using the £40 autoglym wax (only because I got it cheap) and that's pretty good actually and fairly easy to buff off. I have white cars now they hide marks and scratches so much more effectively than black!


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

Lewis. said:


> Cleaning black cars is an absolute Facking nightmare. I'd never have another black car. I spent a whole day paint correcting my black s3 once and even the lightest wipe with a microfibre would add small scratches to the finish again. You need brand new clothes every time to do this property without marking the paint. I've also tried loads of posh waxes and found them to be a nightmare too. The best results I've had from £9.99 meguairs nxt wax from halfords, and it outlasts all the others I've tried too (dodo juice, (other stuff with a fish on the tin but I can't remember what it's called). I've recently been using the £40 autoglym wax (only because I got it cheap) and that's pretty good actually and fairly easy to buff off. I have white cars now they hide marks and scratches so much more effectively than black!


Buy a metallic silver car and all your problems disappear, as if by magic


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## Lewis. (Feb 26, 2008)

I found that with white in terms of concealing marks, just doesn't stay clean long!


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## Daniel Um (Feb 5, 2015)

You should use the wax as less as you could.
Also after polishing, you have to remove the oil to have better bonding for LSP.


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

Why not use a spray sealant product like Reload to ascertain what the problem is. If you still have the same problem then its your polishing, if you dont have the same problem then its the wax.

Also remember different products react differently on different paints, Ive had go to awesome product turn into a royal pig on certain paints for some reason. I remember polishing an MG that had a number of panels resprayed and I had to use different products for different panels as I just couldn't get the different paints to play ball with the same LSP


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## Dibbuz (Apr 11, 2007)

Top tip: use closed loop microfibers. 
If your paint is non metallic black than there is quite a chance that it's sensitive as hell. If not there is still a good chance. Every soft paint is sensitive but not every senstive paint is soft, think about that one 
The rong microfiber will marr the paint for sure. Plush microfibers for example.

Use closed loop microfibers like Meguiar's Ultimate Wipe, Nanolex Lotus or Gyeon Baldwipes. They are so much better for sensitive paintwork.
Use them from finishing and further since after finishing you won't polish the paintwork no more.

Also wash with a washmitt with less drag as possible: Micr. Madness washmitt or Gyeon Smoothie and use a Gyeon Silk Dryer as a drying towel. They have so much less drag and that is very important when washing your car.

If it's very sensitive you will get marring anyways with whatever you use. 

Good luck!


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

Lewis. said:


> Cleaning black cars is an absolute Facking nightmare. I'd never have another black car. I spent a whole day paint correcting my black s3 once and even the lightest wipe with a microfibre would add small scratches to the finish again. You need brand new clothes every time to do this property without marking the paint. I've also tried loads of posh waxes and found them to be a nightmare too. The best results I've had from £9.99 meguairs nxt wax from halfords, and it outlasts all the others I've tried too (dodo juice, (other stuff with a fish on the tin but I can't remember what it's called). I've recently been using the £40 autoglym wax (only because I got it cheap) and that's pretty good actually and fairly easy to buff off. I have white cars now they hide marks and scratches so much more effectively than black!


99% time its the user not the product but its easiest to fault the product i guess, apart from black cars being harder work dont really agree with much but each to their own.


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## Lewis. (Feb 26, 2008)

Some products just don't work as well as they're supposed to. And some aren't compatible with certain paint finishes. I hear what you're saying but I've tried a lot of products and been doing this a long time so wouldn't say my experiences were entirely down to user error. What I will say is this: a more expensive product doesn't always equate to better results.


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