# Is this the quality of work we should expect ?



## minotaur uk (Dec 13, 2018)

Hi,

I posted a month or two ago regarding the passenger door on my Kodiaq that was being replaced due to an accident. It was being replaced by the local Skoda bodyshop.

I have had the car back for two weeks now. Last week I noticed that there were dust/contamination spots on the door, these had to be de nibbed. So I arranged for the bodyshop to de nib the dust spots. 
I got the car back but didn't properly check the door in appropriate light.

Today the sun was out and I checked the door propely and found awful patches where they had sanded the dust spots and I think a poor attempt at polishing. Also I noticed substantial buffer trails and holograms.

Is this the level of work that approved UK bodyshops are putting out now ? Or have I just picked a bad bodyshop ?


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## AudiPhil (Aug 11, 2018)

That's shocking! It's hard to believe they returned it to you like that. If I were you I'd be getting back in contact with them to get that rectified.


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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

Seems pretty normal tbh. The body shop charges £75hr and they have to do it for £35hr as they have to negotiate with the insurers. Most people wouldn't notice as it looks like the rest of the car. When you detail as a hobby it stands out like a saw thumb.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Yes, thats what a uk bodyshop would deem acceptable. The sanding marks I do take some offence to, but the holograms are to be expected. The notion that they can polish a car just because they can paint one is a little redundant. Its like saying I can paint because I can polish. 

Its sad but I always tell my customers that as long as the colour, flake and texture is right they have done their job well. The rest is someone elses

Now thats not to say there aren't places that can do it all, but the time frame, training and cost is totally different


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## SamD (Oct 24, 2015)

Some of the more well known company’s are running a production line and are working within a profit margin so that extra 10% tlc is not within budget unfortunately


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

That's dire but which is it?

A lack of knowledge and/or skill?

OR

A lack of time?

Regardless it's unacceptable.

Did that door look like that before? I doubt it. So it shouldn't look like that now. 

Many, many years ago I fell foul of a poor "insurance" job. Ended up with full "expert" reports etc, Just be careful about who you think is responsible and liable. Mine turned out to be.......the Insurance Company (so said the Judge).....as my contract was with the Insurance company, NOT the garage that did the work. More by luck then judgement I'd kept the Insurance Company informed and had instructed them not to settle the bill as the workmanship was in dispute. They, of course, ignored that and settled the account. Their explanation that it was work that had been done so the invoice had to be paid didn't cut much ice with the Judge! It was all sorted out in my favour in the end but what a pain in the proverbial.

Good luck with getting things put right.

Andy.


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## andy__d (Jun 27, 2018)

AndyN01 said:


> That's dire but which is it?
> 
> A lack of knowledge and/or skill?
> 
> ...


All And "fudge it that will do" attitude. (other words are applicable for fudge)


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

sadly yes thats what they can get away with 

insurance paying very little and the workers most likley on bonus to rush things along 

just polish it yourself , if it goes back it will only get another thrashing with the buffer and burn off more clear


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## Bikeracer (Jan 16, 2015)

I also have a Kodiaq and I know if it was mine I would go back and show whoever was in charge how the car was returned to you and ask if they employed anyone who actually knew how to polish a car properly.

But then again I'm just a grumpy old man !

Allan


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## minotaur uk (Dec 13, 2018)

I have emailed the dealer bodyshop and showed them the photo, to let them know the quality of work coming out of their bodyshop! I am not going to get them to fix it as I agree with steveo3002. Not sure what other they will do to it once its back again. 

I have got a DA and various pads so will polish it myself, just waiting for some menzerna 3800 to arrive.


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## gargreen7 (Apr 12, 2009)

What did they paint it with? A stick?


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Very poor , but the norm for some bodyshops I'm afraid they just love buffer trails


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Yeah I had a repair done on a new (to me) car a few years ago as part of the deal to buy it. (Well, they were to sort out marks on the back bumper before collection.)

When I went to collect the car the salesman said "they've done an amazing job, haven't they?"

My answer was "no, it's awful". There were runs everywhere (from the rear numberplate recess most obviously) and they had done things like sand the bumper down to the plastic, then clear over it, entirely missing the colour.

The next time they did it I think they got too close to some small plastic flaps just behind the rear wheels, because they gave the car back to me with them both missing. From the looks of it they had caught one of them with the rotary and damaged it or ripped it off, then just tore the other one off to match and hoped that I wouldn't notice. The job was awful the second time as well.

I then demanded the dealer/bodyshop allowed me to take it to a bodyshop of my choosing and replace the entire bumper (they had caused numerous other issues I've not mentioned and ripping the plastic bits off had caused the front top corners of the bumper to not fit tight to the body anymore).

It looked much better after the bodyshop I chose, but the bumper was covered in holograms. I meant to polish them out myself, but didn't get around to it before selling the car. (Something to do with my wife giving birth to our daughter on the day I collected it from the second bodyshop!)

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Try taking it to a well respected detailer and asking for a written report on the defects and a quote to correct them. Have you got anyone on here near to you?

Send that to BOTH the bodyshop & the Insurance company and see what happens.

Andy.


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## minotaur uk (Dec 13, 2018)

AndyN01 said:


> Try taking it to a well respected detailer and asking for a written report on the defects and a quote to correct them. Have you got anyone on here near to you?
> 
> Send that to BOTH the bodyshop & the Insurance company and see what happens.
> 
> Andy.


The party that caused the damage settled out of insurance so there is no insurance company involved. I am going to sort it myself, I actually enjoy polishing! I think this will be chalked down to experience...fortunately its fixed by polishing which is not a big job.


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## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

Whilst that may be considered to be normal and what one would excpect nowadays, I cetainly wouldn't consider it acceptable in any way shape or form. 

The only reason they do a poor quality cheap/rush job is because they are allowedto get away with it by customers who either can't see or don't care. I t does them good to come against someone who will complain once in a while. Shame they don't get complaints often enough to make them wake up and do a better job!


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## JCoxy (Dec 21, 2011)

Bodyshop guy here, as someone who began loving detailing on here who then trained into body repair I can say we simply don't have the time to do 2 or 3 stage polishing to get rid of holograms, and my boss certainly wouldn't want me doing it. as far as i'm concerned to me that's acceptable, I'd rather run the risk of it being kicked back and then rectify it than spend another few hours perfecting it,

As above comments say as long as there's no runs, massive colour difference and everything else is fine a little bit of holograms is absolutely nothing for me to loose sleep about


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## minotaur uk (Dec 13, 2018)

JCoxy said:


> Bodyshop guy here, as someone who began loving detailing on here who then trained into body repair I can say we simply don't have the time to do 2 or 3 stage polishing to get rid of holograms, and my boss certainly wouldn't want me doing it. as far as i'm concerned to me that's acceptable, I'd rather run the risk of it being kicked back and then rectify it than spend another few hours perfecting it,
> 
> As above comments say as long as there's no runs, massive colour difference and everything else is fine a little bit of holograms is absolutely nothing for me to loose sleep about


Thanks for the honest post, good to see the POV of someone on the other side of the fence. I think the issue sounds like time management....which to be fair is not an issue of the customer. The car in my case never left the factory with buffer trails, holograms...and sanding marks. So in my opinion it should be the same standard as how it left the factory....which still is not perfect by the way.

The way I see it the issues in these circumstances are the customer expecting too much, body shop time management, or poor quality workmanship. But I am not sure which of these issues is deemed as not being exceptable if the standard across the industry is to produce this kind of work.

For £1800 for a replacement door my expectation is to leave the door as the same standard as the rest of the car.


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## SamD (Oct 24, 2015)

minotaur uk said:


> Thanks for the honest post, good to see the POV of someone on the other side of the fence. I think the issue sounds like time management....which to be fair is not an issue of the customer. The car in my case never left the factory with buffer trails, holograms...and sanding marks. So in my opinion it should be the same standard as how it left the factory....which still is not perfect by the way.
> 
> The way I see it the issues in these circumstances are the customer expecting too much, body shop time management, or poor quality workmanship. But I am not sure which of these issues is deemed as not being excepatble if the standard across the industry is to produce this kind of work.
> 
> For £1800 for a replacement door my expectation is to leave the door as the same standard as the rest of the car.


Expectation vs reality =


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## Bikeracer (Jan 16, 2015)

> The way I see it the issues in these circumstances are the customer expecting too much, body shop time management, or poor quality workmanship. But I am not sure which of these issues is deemed as not being excepatble if the standard across the industry is to produce this kind of work.
> 
> For £1800 for a replacement door my expectation is to leave the door as the same standard as the rest of the car.


Got to agree with you, IMO its probably acceptable for some back street garage. But for a dealerships recommended body shop repair finish it's rubbish and if they deem such a poor quality finish acceptable then they need to employ people with a better skill set that know how to use the available tools to get a customer acceptable finish.

Allan


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## virgiltracey (Apr 19, 2017)

I worked for one of the biggest bodyshop groups in the UK and sadly yes, that is the quality that is being churned out.

Most people send the cars in after an accident covered in winter crap and when they get a car back that isn't smashed up and has had a valet, most are over the moon.

UK bodyshops are trying to squeeze every last penny out of the insurers so will spend as little time as possible per job. 
When i was doing the QC's at the end of the job the amount that I had to let go because of cost restraints was appalling, that and the constant covering up of mistakes and lying to customers was why I had to resign. 

I had to put my foot down once and sort out every small defect on one car, I even valeted it myself (I was a group manager btw) because this car had a detailingworld sticker on the window and I knew that if it wasn't perfect then we'd have a lot more work to do!

So glad I got out of bodyshops, not a healthy environment (mentally).


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Bikeracer said:


> Got to agree with you, IMO its probably acceptable for some back street garage. But for a dealerships recommended body shop repair finish it's rubbish and if they deem such a poor quality finish acceptable then they need to employ people with a better skill set that know how to use the available tools to get a customer acceptable finish.
> 
> Allan


This is not some left wing, socialist rant but we seem to have created a society where many are trying to "put one over" on everyone. Pay peanuts, produce iffy products or services and charge top money.

Skillful people deserve good pay!

This costs the boss money so, in general, they're inclined to pay less and either bully the staff to produce "more for less" or accept that there will be the (hopefully odd) complaint and worry (argue!) about that when it happens or both.

I'm always fascinated by the businesses that say "we can't find the right people for our jobs" Treble the salary, give security of employment, 6 weeks paid holiday and a final salary pension and see how many apply then.

We clearly can produce world class & world leading products but, sadly, it seems the great god - greed - is alive and doing very well indeed.

It's why I give my custom to places that give me good, reliable service and I'm happy to pay them a decent price.

Andy.


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## SamD (Oct 24, 2015)

AndyN01 said:


> This is not some left wing, socialist rant but we seem to have created a society where many are trying to "put one over" on everyone. Pay peanuts, produce iffy products or services and charge top money.
> 
> Skillful people deserve good pay!
> 
> ...


Spot on Andy!


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## JCoxy (Dec 21, 2011)

Good comments mentioned above, I myself work in a small independent shop, doing the whole job start to finish I usally do two or three vehicles a week, but I could earn more money working at a supermarket,

to the OP, it's all a mixture of time cutting, taking shortcuts, but it's the insurance companies doing us over, they dictate to us what hourly rate they will pay us, it should be the other way around

Parts prices are the killer here, £1800 for one new door is about right, door alone is like £400 - £600 excluding any attached clips + black tapes or trims that need to be renewed sometimes

A car should be restored to factory condition but I'm afraid the fact is once its had work done to it, its hard work done to it, it'll never be original again. But making it damn well near close without knowing? That's what we strive for


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

JCoxy said:


> Good comments mentioned above, I myself work in a small independent shop, doing the whole job start to finish I usally do two or three vehicles a week, but I could earn more money working at a supermarket,
> 
> to the OP, it's all a mixture of time cutting, taking shortcuts, but it's the insurance companies doing us over, they dictate to us what hourly rate they will pay us, it should be the other way around
> 
> ...


Thank you

My point exactly - why on earth would you spend months and years learning how to "repair" a car when you can get paid more in a supermarket? OK maybe you enjoy working on cars but that doesn't pay the bills and doesn't reflect the relative level of knowledge & skills needed to do the job. We've got skills & pay totally back to front.

And might that be the Insurance industry - who do nothing practical - "putting one over" on the people who actually do the work? Yes, it should be the people who are hands on who dictate price!

Perhaps it would be nice to see the Insurance company publish it's "rates" so a prospective purchaser could see beforehand what sort of repair they could expect, based on the price they pay. Obviously if they will only pay £50/hour that'll be a whole different job to one that pays £200/hour.

And £1800 for a door. Now who's taking the mickey? So a new car has doors costing £7K? Really?

And those in power wonder why we've lost our manufacturing and engineering businesses.

Andy.


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## minotaur uk (Dec 13, 2018)

A quick update, last night with my Argos DA, chinese ebay pads and £10 Megs compound...and some Mezerna 3800....the door was finished and defect free 

The main body of the door was done within an hour...the sanding scratches from the denibbing took longer!


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Nice work (from a fellow Argos DA user) :thumb:

Glad to see you've got your lovely car back to how it should look :buffer: 

Andy.


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## SamD (Oct 24, 2015)

Luckily it was only tlc that was needed, nice work.


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