# ValetPro Bilberry - Touchless? Nope. What am I doing wrong?



## SiliconS (Jun 23, 2010)

I've received my litre of ValetPro Bilberry wheel cleaner from I4Detailing (fast delivery - thanks) and tried it for the first time. The bottle confidently says that it's the "Closest product to a touchless wheel clean". For light soiling dilute up to 1:10; for heavy soiling up to 1:3. I chose 1:2 because I wanted it to be effective and it's not too expensive.

I spray it generously onto my alloys, right across the width of the inner surface. I leave it the recommended 5 minutes and then excitedly hose it off, expecting to see the spotless finish that ValetPro's video promotes.

Did it work? Didn't seem to. Hardly seemed to touch the brake dust without brushed agitation. On the wheel below I've applied Bilberry and hosed it off as instructed. I've wiped the dirt with a finger so you can see how soft the dirt is and how much remains.

This is so far from the miracle I was hoping for that I wondered whether I've got a fake product! If I've still got to use a brush then this is barely better than the Autoglym stuff I've been using until now.

Can anybody offer tips or advice?










(Please excuse the rusty brake disc. I didn't drive this car yesterday  )


----------



## danwel (Feb 18, 2007)

I don't think you will ever get touch less unless you have well sealed wheels and even then soapy water or very mild APC would do the trick


----------



## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

I haven't used Bilberry so I can't say whether or not this is right but I do know that some things are waaaayyyyyyy over-hyped. Forget the wheel cleaner, get a decent wheel sealant on them. Far more important than wheel cleaners imo :thumb:


----------



## Scrim-1- (Oct 8, 2008)

Tbh if you didn't agitate it then I wouldn't expect it to remove much.

If you agitate it then you will get a pretty good finish.


----------



## SiliconS (Jun 23, 2010)

Scrim-1- said:


> Tbh if you didn't agitate it then I wouldn't expect it to remove much.
> 
> If you agitate it then you will get a pretty good finish.



Trouble is, these are 285mm-wide tyres with massive brake discs, and reaching the far side of the wheel is difficult even with the specific brush I bought at the same time. I really did just want to spray the Bilberry on and rinse it off.


----------



## Drewie (Apr 13, 2013)

What brush did you get? With my range of brushes, I can easily clean my wheels (8.25" wide)

I have a spoke back wheel woolie, valetpro long wheel brush and the silverline grille/wheel brush (which tbh I think an EZ brush would be better)

I have bilberry and enjoy using it, I've liked every valetpro product I've used actually 

The only touchless clean you'll get is from a strong acid cleaner, and a very powerful jetwash.


----------



## Scrim-1- (Oct 8, 2008)

Get yourself a set of wheel woolies, or even try something like iron x for a near touch less cleaner.


----------



## ALTEA (Dec 23, 2005)

Can't say that I've ever found a safe wheel cleaner that does much more than soap and water. Iron and tar removal products have worked much better for me.


----------



## ABC Detailing (Jun 29, 2010)

Bilberry is a great wheel cleaner, but like the rest, it needs some agitation. :thumb:


----------



## EliteCarCare (Aug 25, 2006)

Did you hose it off or pressure wash it off? 

Alex


----------



## Danny B (Apr 14, 2010)

Scrim-1- said:


> Get yourself a set of wheel woolies, or even try something like iron x for a near touch less cleaner.


use all the above, cleaner, woolies, iron-x & tardis for the best finish, but still will never be touchless


----------



## svended (Oct 7, 2011)

The only wheel cleaner I've come across that doesn't need agitation is BH Autowheels, but even then you need to make sure you've applied it to all areas as it'll only leave (un-agitated) areas it's physically on. 
A couple of old tooth brushes and a Swissvax Style Brush should go along way into helping.


----------



## allgearnoidea (May 9, 2013)

I use bioberry and it does need agitation on the front wheels but not the back. not sure if the bottle has changed since I got mine but it states that some agitation is needed for heavily soiled wheels. I use 1:8 and works a treat.


----------



## MEH4N (Mar 15, 2012)

wheel woolies and iron x is what you need. 

Maybe seal the wheels before winter?


----------



## allgearnoidea (May 9, 2013)

where is the best place to get woolies wheel brushes from??


----------



## Natalie (Jan 19, 2011)

allgearnoidea said:


> where is the best place to get woolies wheel brushes from??


£38 from Polished Bliss or see if theres a group buy on here?


----------



## bigmac3161 (Jul 24, 2013)

Use it all the time but it does need a bit of a go with a brush. Wide wheels and big discs an ez brush is really good.


----------



## Danny B (Apr 14, 2010)

MEH4N said:


> iron x is what you need.


you need a cleaner, iron-x on its own will not do everything


----------



## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

I was less than impressed with billberry. Wasn't a patch on the auto glym wheel cleaner I used before it but I have a lot of it. It works fine with aggitation but doesn't do a deal without. 
Currently using autobrites cherry wheel cleaner (the non acidic one - forget the name) but it's only midly better than billberry imo. 

Smart wheels is meant to be pretty good but I've not tried that one yet. 

I saw Nick from polished perfection nearly clean some wheels without touching them with some purple rain 2.0 and a pressure washer. Would have perhaps got it all if the coverage had been everywhere but if you start using fallout removers to clean wheels it suddenly gets very expensive.


----------



## BirdsEye (Jan 30, 2013)

I share your pain OP as my wheels are a pain to keep clean and the barrels seem to always stay dirty. 

The only way I found to remove the majority of the dirt was to use a wheel cleaner (I used car chem) followed by iron-x, then dried them and finally used Rejex alloy wheel polish from a waxybox. Left a good finish but probably won't be very durable. I hate cleaning alloys :-(


----------



## Guru (Aug 28, 2013)

Haven't used VP bilberry, but I have Angelwax bilberry which is claimed to be the original formula sold to VP.

It's an alkaline cleaner, so can't expect it to be touchless. Yu'll need an acidic cleaner for almost touchless cleaning. Even then you'll not be able to remove the more stubborn contaminants, and it certainly won't be safe on most of the alloys.

Short answer - get yourself some long handle brushes, and then the cleaner will work wonders.


----------



## NornIron (May 12, 2007)

Guru said:


> Haven't used VP bilberry, but I have Angelwax bilberry which is claimed to be the original formula sold to VP.


As stated, Angelwax Bilberry is the original _(far superior IMHO)_ formula product.

I've used it for a number of years, most lately on 17" alloys with 225's... I've never considered it touchless, especially with modern soft brake pads. Seal your rims, buy an EZ Brush, dilute Angelwax Bilberry 10:1 and it's a winning combination :thumb:


----------



## WhichOne'sPink? (Dec 13, 2011)

Maxolen wheel cleaner is as close to a touchless wheel cleaner I have ever seen. Spray on, leave and pressure wash off. Fantastic stuff. 

I have used it on my badly corroded and kerbed alloys and it has done no harm at all.


----------



## Deep blue (Sep 21, 2009)

Billberry is one of my favorite products:argie: Effective, very dilutable and does not cost a fortune. Oh and absolutely the best thing about it is that it's lsp safe.

Also it can be easily used as a "touchless wash", if you have sealed your rims with decent lsp (C5 for example). Routine wash is really important too.


----------



## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

Definitely EZ detail brush for those alloys. The wheel woolies probably won't be as effective as the big will be too big for the brakes. Then a inch round brush for the fronts and lugs.


----------



## SiliconS (Jun 23, 2010)

OK, thank you all for your comments. I guess I need to move my expectations lower. Or perhaps Valet Pro need to set different expectations in their product descriptions. I doubt I'll be buying any more of this stuff when I've used up this 1 litre. :-/


----------



## horico (Jul 17, 2010)

For members on here, bilberry with minor agitation is just the job. For the general great unwashed (see what I did there?) it simply won't clear the nasty stuff convincingly, agitated or not!

I should point out that I don't have an issue with BB - I use it as my first choice at the mo.


----------



## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

You will need a brush to get the backs clean, once sealed back there, a weekly wash should keep them well under control.

I have actually experienced Bilberry cleaning better than some with no agitation....
But your backs need agitating a good deep clean.

*From a while Back...*

*Ok while doing an update to Wonder Wheels Hot wheels Review thread...

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=2917435

I Had a bit of a play with the 3 Products Mentioned.

So in the above thread i compared the Hot wheels with the Power washer, rather than a hose pipe and trigger spray to see if you did not need any agitation to remove all the brake dust.

While doing the dirty wheels...



















I tried just the power washer, on wheels that have been treated with FK1000P a few weeks back.

Swipe test result...










After treating with the Hot wheels no agitation the swipe test gave...










Now although i dont have a picture of the wheel cleaned with the Bilberry as it was a on the spot test not expecting much, i was very surprised.

Namely while the Hot wheels sat for 5 mins i went to the other side wheel and sprayed the bilberry on, this is a week solution as such at 1 part bilberry to 16 water if i remember correctly.

So as you will know for any who have tried bilberry it runs off and dries fast.
I did not do another spray and agitate i just left the first spray while i jetted the Hot Wheels side.

I returned to the Bilberry side and greeted with pretty much dried on bilberry, I power washed off.

Not expecting much i did the finger swipe as shown in above pics.
However i had to do several times and even then i could barely see anything left behind and certainly nothing that the camera would pic up....:doublesho

Very surprised with that and as i had been testing the face of the alloy i later did all the wheel backs with the bilberry and the large wheel woolie. ( Now if only they would do just the Large Wheel Woolie at a good price...:lol: )

So another thing i tested was the question again of will Hot wheels do the same as Iron-X it certainly smells similar but still inconclusive.

Here we go...

So wheel condition after 1250 Miles...










One cleaned with Hot wheels and agitated.
Using 34 grams of product.










One cleaned with Iron-X and agitated.
Using 22 grams of product.










Now re application of Iron-X on the one Already treated with Iron-X.










Stil showing contamination... but a rather light shade and i personally would not use Iron-X in this way as a wheel cleaner i use it after a wash to decontaminate to get the stuff off that a normal wash does not remove and for me better use of the products merits.
So for me no surprise that not all the contamination has been removed after all i feel most was wasted stripping brake dust that can be removed far more cheaply.

Now Iron-X used on the Wheel already washed with the Hot Wheels.



















Now for me having seen in the real world so to speak the Colour of the Iron-X on the Hot Wheels cleaned wheel is a good deal darker, so for me personally i see that as more contaminants been dissolved and held in suspension im no chemist mind...:lol:

Hot Wheels may remove some Additional iron contamination im just not sure but certainly for me not to the level i get with Iron-X and at this point i had run out of wheels to test...:lol:...:wave:*


----------



## Guru (Aug 28, 2013)

SiliconS said:


> Or perhaps Valet Pro need to set different expectations in their product descriptions. :-/


This. I am very wary of the descriptions provided by detailing product manufacturers. There are exceptions, but they are just that - exceptions.


----------



## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

Guru said:


> This. I am very wary of the descriptions provided by detailing product manufacturers. There are exceptions, but they are just that - exceptions.


I've never had any product be touchless unless I used a pressure washer. A hose, even with a sharp stream, is no where near powerful enough. Even then, the wheel still needed agitaion.

Personally for me I clean wheels just like I polish; start weak and work up. Rinse with pressure, wheel cleaner, agitation, then rinse with pressure again. Let the pressure washer take off what it can on it's own, and save some time and product.


----------



## Makalu (May 7, 2013)

ABC Detailing said:


> Bilberry is a great wheel cleaner, but like the rest, it needs some agitation. :thumb:


What he said +1 - just buy a bigger brush?

)


----------



## Surrey Sam (Dec 29, 2008)

SiliconS said:


> I guess I need to move my expectations lower. Or perhaps Valet Pro need to set different expectations in their product descriptions. I doubt I'll be buying any more of this stuff when I've used up this 1 litre. :-/


I think the former rather than the later, I'm sure it says on the bottle that it requires agitation for heavily soiled applications?

Anyway, you best bet is to take the wheels off, deep clean them to rid them of tar and fallout, then seal them with a good quality wheel protection product.

Only then will _any_ wheel cleaning product have a chance of removing brake dust in a touch less manor. If that sounds like too much effort, then a wheel brush will suffice.


----------



## Jonny_R (Oct 23, 2012)

OP not sure if you have said but are you using a pressure washer? or open ended hose?

That could be where your main problem lies imo!

Bilberry with a decent pressure washer (5:1 mix) used to bring my wheels up a treat on weekly washes before i got into the whole sealing of my wheels etc

Now i seal my wheels, i just use a pressure washer, brushes and some soapy water in a spray bottle weekly and 3 months on there still cleaning just as good wit hthe soapy water


----------



## SiliconS (Jun 23, 2010)

I'm using a hose on the highest pressure stream. It's painful to hold a hand in the stream, but it's nowhere near pressure washer standard, of course. I realise the instructions do recommend a pressure washer.

To give you an idea of the level of soiling, it comes off easily with a sponge/soft brush and soapy water. This is not baked-on old dust.


----------

