# Chips Away Franchise



## rich1880

Hi All

I have been using the forum a while now am enjoying detailing. There is a chance I could get made redundant from my full time meployment and as such I'm looking at seeing this as an opportunity to do something different.

After a bit of looking around I have had a few conversations with the Chips Away franchise team and on the face of it it looks quite good, they are probably slightly over optemistic on the earning potential however I thik there is a living to be made out of it.

Has anyone else looked into this, used chips away, have a chipsaway franchise?


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## Dixondmn

I looked into this a few years ago, but the cost of the van, capital investment, materials, and general petrol just to move around was simply too high to make a real living from it (for me anyway)


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## Tol

I run a ChipsAway franchise - feel free to get a feel for our operation at http://www.chipsawaycambridge.co.uk - and if you have any questions I can help with that the site doesn't answer, please give me a call or email (contact details all on the site).

Tol


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## turboyamaha

Cant get a better offer then that!!


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## Shinyvec

I looked at this but the cost was just to high and then the further costs were just to high to. I found a place that trains you and supplys the gear at a set price without ongoing costs except restock and its based in Yorkshire. They do the full range of training from basic scratch removal to damaged trim / upholstry and Alloy Refurbishing the proper way. The price they charge goes up in steps to what ever you want to do and it includes the equipment to so all you need to do is buy a van, get a opperating name and thats it.


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## rich1880

Cheers for that I've sent you an email.


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## Nanoman

I know someone that does this and I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. To be sucessful you need to be bloody good at running your own business and might as well run your own business instead. My advice would be to think about other things you could invest in first before jumping in to one of these.

If I remember correctly it's £30k to buy the franchise, approx £300 a month for the vehicle and 12% of your turnover for 'licence' & advertising. There's no guarantee that you'll make any money and you can only work within a certain small area. 

Say for example the the average job is £150 (you'll be lucky) and you want to pay the franchise cost over 3 years you need to do 2 jobs a week just to pay your costs forgetting fuel, insurance, etc. If you do another 2 jobs a week you only make £15k a year. Where does the 4 jobs per week come from? Do you just sit there and wait for them to phone you? 

Now look at what other options you have to invest the £30k. I know quite a few people that are franchisee/franchisor and it's only the guy at the top of the tree that makes any money. 

That's just my 2p worth - I'm sure others will disagree and there are people that have been reasonably successful doing this. I personally see most of these things as a high risk, high cost way of starting your own business.


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## the_names_james

grantwils; said:


> I personally see most of these things as a high risk, high cost way of starting your own business.


Franchising is supposed to reduce your risk as you're buying a tried and tested business model, and you get ongoing training/support (well, you're supposed to).

I don't know if CA charge a fixed fee or a % per month but personally I'd steer clear of % based fees. All it means is the harder you work, the more money the franchisor makes and that just doesn't make sense to me.


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## rich1880

Thanks for the input guys, all valid points and ones that I need to give some thought. I have friends who have car dealerships so perhaps setting up myself may be a better option in the long run.


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## Shinyvec

rich1880 said:


> Thanks for the input guys, all valid points and ones that I need to give some thought. I have friends who have car dealerships so perhaps setting up myself may be a better option in the long run.


How did you get on with the info mate


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## rich1880

It looks like they have some great packages, I'm getting a call back tomorrow with an exact price on what I need.


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## Matty_L

I'm glad I've stumbled upon this thread, I too am looking into a career change but not into chips away, been looking at Paintless Dent Removal, and thought about setting up on my own.

I have quite a few contacts within the motor trade thanks to spending the last 7 years working in it, and there only seems to be 1 or 2 chaps that come to our area and even they are coming out from Nottingham to do the work in our area.

Was hoping anyone who has managed to get on there feet within this line of work or Smart repairs can give me an indication of what I'm getting myself into.


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## Tol

Come visit the trade forum at smartrepairforum.com

There are a few PDR guys there, and although the learning curve seems pretty vicious, they do really well once they have the craft down. And, of course, no materials costs.

Tol


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## Danno1975

rich1880 said:


> Hi All
> 
> I have been using the forum a while now am enjoying detailing. There is a chance I could get made redundant from my full time meployment and as such I'm looking at seeing this as an opportunity to do something different.
> 
> After a bit of looking around I have had a few conversations with the Chips Away franchise team and on the face of it it looks quite good, they are probably slightly over optemistic on the earning potential however I thik there is a living to be made out of it.
> 
> Has anyone else looked into this, used chips away, have a chipsaway franchise?


I know a successful ChipsAway franciase that's up for sale, PM me if you want some details.


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## Incredible Detail

grantwils said:


> Where does the 4 jobs per week come from? Do you just sit there and wait for them to phone you?


Where do the 4 jobs per week come from if you set up on your own? I doubt you'd have TV adverts generating business.

The rest of the post isn't aimed at you directly.

If I had been made redundant and £30k to invests (and wasn't in to detailing) then chipsaway would be a serious consideration. Maybe the OP has £30k there and won't need finance (not that that's any of our business).

Yes people do well in the smart repair business with and without chipsaway. The guy near me is no longer with chipsaway and is doing pretty well on his own though - although maybe he wouldn't be doing so well if he hadn't built up the client base with chipsaway.

I suppose it's like being Zymol or Swissvax Authorised (in a way). You have an established brand name that you can use. Although what you do with it is down to you. Don't blame others for your failure / wrong choices.

As far as I'm aware Tol is very sucessful and it's most likely of his own doing. I'm sure he got the same help and support as others that aren't doing so well.

IMO there is a lot of money to be made in dent removal if your good at it and some guys are cr*p. £30-50 or something like that for some dents that take 5 minutes. Although a lot would be trade work at a cheaper rate (I got both sides of my car painted and a few dents taken out cheaper than the dent guy would have taken just for the dents - so got trade rate from the bodyshop).

Look up youtube and see some of the dent guys work. Some of the stuff is amazing but like most things, making it look easy is part of the skill.


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## Nanoman

Incredible Detail said:


> Where do the 4 jobs per week come from if you set up on your own? I doubt you'd have TV adverts generating business.


My point was don't expect to be rushed off your feet with work. You'll get leads from Chips Away but only within your given postcode area which you cannot work outside under any circumstances.

You'll need a great deal of business acumen and experience at sales/marketing. As I say I know Franchisor's and Franchisee's both of whom say that in most cases you'd be better off starting out on your own.

Unless there's guaranteed income from Chips-Away (as far as I can tell it's only guaranteed that you pay them money) then you should consider doing it yourself as that's where most of your business will come from.


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## centenary

the_names_james said:


> Franchising is supposed to reduce your risk as you're buying a tried and tested business model, and you get ongoing training/support (well, you're supposed to).
> 
> I don't know if CA charge a fixed fee or a % per month but personally I'd steer clear of % based fees. All it means is the harder you work, the more money the franchisor makes and that just doesn't make sense to me.


Erm, yes that's the line franchisors and the Franchise association like to put out.

Having owned a franchise ie been a franchisee, my advice to anyone thinking of buying one is, *DON'T!*


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## Mirror Finish Details

rich1880 said:


> Thanks for the input guys, all valid points and ones that I need to give some thought. I have friends who have car dealerships so perhaps setting up myself may be a better option in the long run.


I do loads of dealer work and they usually do paint defects it in house.

I have never got on with Chips Away, as the quotes are almost worth me taking a bonnet off and running it down the local body shop.

If you are profeciant, why not just set up by yourself?

I am going to launch a mobile alloy referbishment service, I am almost ready to start advertising, including the van and equipment on lease I have only spent £5k so far, and no payments back to a franchise.


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## Tol

For a little perspective, in the months of Feb, March and April to date, we have received 200 leads from the centre. With a real-world conversion ratio, and cost of sale, that vastly more than pays for the licensing fees we pay to our franchisor.

A franchised brand and method is like any other business asset. If the businessman/woman in question can use that asset to generate profit, then it is a good investment. If your skillset or attitude isn't appropriate for using what you license from a franchisor to make money, then it's not a good option for you.

We make more money out of our franchised brand than it makes from us, so for us it's a no-brainer.

There are over 800 members on the trade smart repairers forum. When polled recently, the vast majority (over 80%) who were still in business either came from a bodyshop background, or started with the support of a franchisor (whether or not they stayed with them after their contracts expired). It was very rare indeed in comparison for someone without previous experience to come into smart repair without franchising and still be trading.

Anyone telling you that money can't be made from a smart repair franchise is probably only telling you that they couldn't do it. It can be done. The only variables are the territory you purchase, the working capital you have available (which I would suggest needs to be higher when you have regular outgoings than if you start an independent hobby business and have time to build it up) and you, as a repairer (if you'll be delivering the service) and a businessperson

HTH.


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## rich1880

THis has generated some good discussion, can I ask 2 questions:

Tol - Of the 200 leads that you get passed, what percentage turn into actual work?

Mirror Finish - Where have you looked at geting your equip, I have loked at one company in York as part of my research but am aware of another couple.


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## Tol

It depends on who quotes them. At the moment we're trying to ensure that my co-director does as many of the quotes as possible, as her conversion ratio is superior to everyone else's - usually around 75 to 80%. 

It's hard to gauge how many of the customers who approach us directly (rather than ringing the national call centre), either by phone, email or walk-in to our bodyshop do so because of the strength of the brand nationally, but a percentage certainly will. 

ChipsAway has approximately 17% unprompted brand awareness ("Please name a car bodywork repair brand..." and 35% prompted brand awareness ("have you heard of 'ChipsAway'?") in the UK nationally. I'd be extremely surprised if any other brand was anywhere near those numbers, but I've not seen anyone else's stats.

There are other benefits, of course, too. We can sell to our customers that if for any reason we get hit by a bus or otherwise go out of business, the network underwrites all our (lifetime) warranties. No independent repairer can say that. And AFAIK, we have the only viable non-isocyanate repair system, meaning we can work without needing to set up a minimum 5-10 metre exclusion zone around every repair to keep the public away from toxic fumes - a 5m exclusion zone is far bigger than most driveways or car park spaces - and if you don't provide one and you're using isocyanate products, both the painter and the customer become liable to an unlimited fine for breach of the COSHH regs according to the HSE guidance.

Also, I've only ever heard requests on forums for advice on "chipsaway repairs", or at best "chipsaway-type repairs" - the brand is the hoover of the industry.

Still, there are plenty of independents making good livings. It's not a case that there's only one route to market.


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## Incredible Detail

Tol said:


> Anyone telling you that money can't be made from a smart repair franchise is probably only telling you that they couldn't do it.


Sums it up perfectly :thumb:

There are plenty of millionaires that have been made due to franchising - here's one example


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## Incredible Detail

grantwils said:


> My point was don't expect to be rushed off your feet with work. You'll get leads from Chips Away but only within your given postcode area which you cannot work outside under any circumstances.
> 
> You'll need a great deal of business acumen and experience at sales/marketing. As I say I know Franchisor's and Franchisee's both of whom say that in most cases you'd be better off starting out on your own.


The same goes for starting off on your own. I'm sure Chipsaway will help with the business acumen and sales/marketing. No one will help you if your on your own. They have a tried and tested busines model and are industry recognised leaders.

However if your already good at sales and marketing then that would make it easier starting on your own.

Each to their own I guess. There is no right or wrong answer but plenty of people are making a very good living from franchising. I personally wouldn't offer people advice on something I didn't know too much about - however Tol is very qualified to offer advice in this area.


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## Nanoman

Incredible Detail said:


> The same goes for starting off on your own. I'm sure Chipsaway will help with the business acumen and sales/marketing. No one will help you if your on your own. They have a tried and tested busines model and are industry recognised leaders.


Many people will help you if you're on your own if you know where to look. No figures have been given for people who gave £30k to chips-away and it all went pete tong. The person I knew wasn't getting much support from chips-away.


Incredible Detail said:


> Each to their own I guess. There is no right or wrong answer but plenty of people are making a very good living from franchising.


Agreed.



Incredible Detail said:


> I personally wouldn't offer people advice on something I didn't know too much about


Not to go OT but if you're talking about me then sales, marketing, running & starting your own business are all something most people who know me would say I know more than average joe about. I've had my fair share of business discussions with people who own/run a franchise including chips-away. I'll stand by what I have said above but as with anything there will be differences of opinion and people with different experiences. The following quote seems to go even further than my advice above.



centenary said:


> Having owned a franchise ie been a franchisee, my advice to anyone thinking of buying one is, *DON'T!*


At no point have I said you can't/won't make money with a franchise. All I'm saying is investigate it very carefully and consider other options before handing someone £30k of your hard earned cash.

Perhaps Tol could share a bit more about how he started off and the journey to get where they are now. Was it a simple hand over £30k, sign up to the lease for the van, work 9-5 and the money came rolling in?

My experience of someone I knew who bought a chips-away franchise was that it isn't all plain sailing and certainly wasn't what he expected it to be. Whether that's his naivity or not I can't say.

I would hope that the OP is getting some value of my posts. If it was me I'd be looking more closely at the Sportscar Performance franchises which seem (at first glance) to be better value for money with higher return for less upfront cost.


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## Incredible Detail

No it wasn't aimed directly at you. You'er just giving a side of the story you've heard and aren't shouting don't do it. Typically, people will say my mate had one and it's rubbish - don't ever do it. Which is terrible advice. If you take advice from people like that then your probably not going to be very successful anyways.

If you really want to start a smart repair franchise then chipsway is, in my opinion and excellent choice. £30k is a lot of money though and there is no doubt that if you have a good business idea and are generally quite smart then you could start your own business and a good living from it. I'm sure some Chipsaway guys make more than independants and vice-versa.

Here's a thread from years ago about Tol experiences - PH Link


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## Tol

grantwils said:


> Perhaps Tol could share a bit more about how he started off and the journey to get where they are now. Was it a simple hand over £30k, sign up to the lease for the van, work 9-5 and the money came rolling in?


No. Not by a long chalk. We've been part of the network 7 years now, and the offering has evolved a lot in that time. The ownership was different, the way the franchisor looked to make their money was different, the paint systems in use were different.

We started with two of us in the business which helped - and we had two properties between us, and we moved in together, got engaged and sold the remaining property to finance our start-up, so we weren't servicing too much debt.

Started with two of us in one franchise territory working out of one van. Within a very short space of time, we were so busy that we invested in another van and territory because we weren't making the best use of the fact that we had two repairers with just one. We expanded again a couple of years later, and took the territory that included our home, to protect our right to work bringing customer cars back to our workshop space, and took on our first employee. At the end of 2007 we bought out a neighbouring franchisee who had a two territory business with a sitting employee. And then a little over a year ago we opened a large premises in Cambridge city. We currently employ 4 staff in addition to the Directors.

It's never been a case of hand over the money and just go paint a never-ending stream of cars. Local marketing is the franchisee's responsibility. We spend a lot on marketing the business because we're always looking for growth. Whenever the business has made money, we've reinvested that into the business, but a franchisee just looking to stay as an owner-operator one-man/woman, one-van could take a very different approach. Franchisees who stop spending on marketing when things get tight, rather than spending more, run out of work.

You need a lot more working capital beyond the purchase price - the franchisor recommends 3-6 months' worth, and all a household's bills and all the business' bills for 6 months is quite a wedge. Too many franchisees sign promising that they have those savings but are lying, and then they are very vulnerable to cashflow putting them under.

Fortunately, the franchisor polices this much more closely now than they did ten years ago. The network used to be a recruitment franchise - it made its money from territory sales. The new ownership wants it to be funded by ongoing revenue from successful franchises - in the form of paint sales and royalties - which aligns the franchisor's interests much more closely with their franchisees.

How the business is marketed has also changed - it used to be that the customer's choice was essentially CA or a bodyshop, and CA was sold on price. Now, there are plenty of options in the marketplace - though few as well-known - and the franchised offerings are probably more expensive than the independents - the overheads are higher, and they are contractually obliged to use premium materials. Franchisees who have continued to try and sell on price have struggled. Those who have found a sweet spot in the quality/value/convenience continuum that suits the demographic of their area are able to prosper.

I think it's a great time to be associated with the brand. We have several former Domino's franchisees who have sold up to reinvest in ChipsAway, because they reckon the brand is placed to achieve the market domination that Domino's rocketed to.

I wouldn't say franchising is for everyone. If you can't see the value of what you'd be licensing, or you can't conform for the benefits of brand reputation, or you just can't maintain a good relationship with a partner business - the franchisor - or most crucially, you can afford to buy in but you then can't afford to sustain the business through its early years, then run a mile. Buying a franchise would be an error.

But for someone who can leverage what they license for profit, can be network-minded, and has the necessary funds, access to the franchised brand can make you far more money than it costs you.


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## Nanoman

An excellent post Tol and thanks for taking the time to write it.

It explains a lot fo the concerns I was trying to put across as my previous experience with someone who bought a Chips-Away Franchise thought they could just pay the £30k and lease the van then the work would come rolling in with little/no further investment.

They knew very little about sales/marketing/networking or running a business. I suspect it was part naivity on the franchisee and partly the franchisor being keen to take the money (as is their perogative). This was within the last 18 months.


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## centenary

I'd still advise people to steer clear of franchising. The poster a few posts back has clearly got a good business going.

But in my experience for every franchisee doing very well, the majority dont.

I know of one franchisee in a competitor franchise to the one I had, had 6 territories in the north east, all doing very well indeed. In fact, when I saw what he was doing, I thought I'd have a little of that.

Now, there are none of his franchises running, either by him or the master franchisor to my knowledge.

during my research I contacted many existing franchisees. They all told me they were doing 'very well.'

Once I'd bought the franchise however, they all sang a different tune. As many as 10 broke away eventually, 4 or 5 went bankrupt, only 2 or 3 managed to sell their franchise. Only one of those got their money back.

I closed my franchise down as no matter how many hours I worked over a 4 year period, no matter how much advertising I spent, breakfast club meetings attended, cold calling etc etc, it just wouldnt make money.

Part of the franchising hook to get people on board is being under the umbrella of the master franchisor. And as the poster a few posts above says, it's your responsibility to advertise. The master franchisor tends to do f*ck all except say who you can and cannot buy your stock from.

To anyone looking to buy a franchise, you *must* speak to a lot of different franchisees, not just the ones in the line of business you are looking at. Dont rely on 4 or 5. ask them the downside. Sit outside their shop or unit and see how many people go in.

Of course you wont see how much business to business work they have so even then you'll only get part of the picture.

Oh, and watch for other franshisees trading in your area. Its generally prevented in your contract but I can assure you it goes on and the master franchisor wil make you jump through hoops to prove it. The british franchise association wont help much in these circumstances either and tend to side with the master franchisor.

If anyone goes ahead, good luck. But to be honest, you'll find franchising quite restrictive and not quite the 'working for yourself' it is sold as.


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## Tol

centenary said:


> I'd still advise people to steer clear of franchising. The poster a few posts back has clearly got a good business going.
> 
> But in my experience for every franchisee doing very well, the majority dont.


That's true of all start-up businesses. Franchising gives a safety-net of a proven business model and strong brand, but at a financial cost. You pays your money...



centenary said:


> If anyone goes ahead, good luck. But to be honest, you'll find franchising quite restrictive and not quite the 'working for yourself' it is sold as.


I partly agree. Some of the best bits of self-employment are definitely there - but you do definitely sacrifice a lot of the freedoms of a completely independent business being part of a franchised brand - again, whether or not an entrepreneur thinks that's worth the trade-off is a key part of whether or not they're suited to franchising.


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## rich1880

Thanks again guys for the useful discussion this has generated. I can see the benefits of the franchise and how youhave the safety net, in a away, of being able to seek guidance and advice. The one area which I still dont like is being limited to an area, for example I live in a rural area and when people see a chipsaway van on my drive it will generate business, however I cannot act upon on. Setting up alone I can determine the areas I cover, meaning the geographic area can be moved accoring to the market, this isnt possible with a franchise.


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## p1tse

not interested in setting anything up like this, but has been an interesting thread. 

problem i find with a franchise in this industry, some people expect high quality workmanship at all the same places, but unfortunately it doesn't happen. 

as there are so many, i'm sure there is money to be bad with the hard work etc. 

best of luck


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## squiggs

p1tse said:


> not interested in setting anything up like this, but has been an interesting thread.
> 
> problem i find with a franchise in this industry, some people expect high quality workmanship at all the same places, but unfortunately it doesn't happen.
> 
> as there are so many, i'm sure there is money to be bad with the hard work etc.
> 
> best of luck


I've just noticed this thread ... I'm a chippy ... just a man in a van.
CA requires each and every franchisee to attend accreditation every 2 - 3 years (and I can honestly say that some are told they need to attend a refresher course) to maintain a brand standard
What we do (as individuals) isn't like a lot of franchises. IE If McDonald's posted photos of a thousand customers asking for a Big Mac you would expect them all to receive an identically prepared, cooked, constructed, and packaged burger
If CA posted a thousand different photos of 'before' photos not one would be identical. And because there will never be two identical jobs there will never be two identical repairs - so one will always better than the other.
But there is a brand standard - using 'arguably' the best products in the market.


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## STEALTH K3

Bloke round the corner has got one with Chips away the van is always outside his house never seems to be away working. Perhap's lack of work in the area for him


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## Defined Reflections

Not sure about chipsaway but i know 3 mobile independent smart repair guys, and they are doing very very well,one i know is taking well over 1k a week, and always has plenty of work


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## PaulN

Chips away can't even do Chips anymore..... I rest my case!


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## squiggs

If you use full HSE compliant materials they don't turn out quite as well as using old style products - but it has always depended upon the colour, silvers in particular have always been a bit of a problem.
And to be quite honest most people expect a chip to be done in minutes and aren't willing to pay for the time it takes to do the job properly


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