# First Day with G220 DA HELP NEEDED



## 44care (Sep 21, 2009)

Hi guys.

I recently bought a g220 of ebay (£102.79 second hand), some Meguiars #80 and #83 (£20.51 second hand(for both)), a meguiars 7" polishing pad (£13.00 new) and some 3434 vehicle masking tape (£3.94 new)










So £140.24 later - I wanted to play with my new toys, but more importantly i wanted to see some results.

Roll in the subject! My new 406, its a 2001 model which I bought for £1,320.










As far as the paintwork goes its not good. After a wash and clay and chamois dry it still looks like it needs washed.


























I know what your thinking - NOT GOOD! And - is this two different colours - I think it is - my bonnet may have been painted at some stage. So I will have to repeat my experiment elsewhere on the car.

I wanted to experiment to see how things would react to each, pad and polish combination. Further I wanted to get some opinion on my technique - see my video at the end of this post, please tell me what you think, im a noobie so I expect criticism and won't be offended at all. In fact - I will thank you for it.

So I divided up the bonnet into three sections in order to evaluate my results. The section on the left is the untouched section. The section in the middle will be subject to medium correction and the section on the right will receive as much correction as my noobie hands can muster. This is my first attempt at this so here goes. I did give the Dave_KG guide a serious going over though and this is the basis for my entire strategy.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=63859

*Left = No work.................... Middle = Little work..................... Right = Maximum effort*




























My first step is to hit the middle and right sections, with Meguiars #80 and the Meguiars polishing pad using the techniques described in Dave_KG's Guide (linked above).










This did have some impact but, as I expected i would need to increase the aggression. I then hit the section in the middle once with the #83 and the right 3 times with #83 and the polishing pad. At this stage the results looked something like this.

No change on the left (nothing has been done here)










Slight improvement in the middle (only got #80 & polishing pad, and #83 & polishing pad, once each)










Bigger improvement on the right (got #80 & polishing pad*1, and #83 & polishing pad*3)










But still far from perfect.

As I expected - I have run out of options(/products) at this stage (referring to the Dave_KG guide) so I am at odds end at what to do next.

I decide the next thing i need will be a cutting pad, so I run over to the house and order one on ebay for £11.99. I have a look at some heavier cutting polishes too - anyone any ideas for me? Maybe some #84, but i am thinking about something a bit heavier that will be used for most of my first stage correction work.

While I am waiting on some deliveries I go back to the shed and have a look for some more things which may help me.

I find this;

G3 Paste compound and Autoglym Super Resin Polish.

I never knew what the G3 was for before, and always found it too difficult to use by hand. I try two more coats of this on the section on the right and a hit of superresin polish on both the middle and right hand sections.

This made a big improvement.

No change on left section (experiment neutral)










Middle section (one hit #80, two hits #83, and one hit SRP)










Right section (one hit #80, two hits #83, two hits G3 and one hit SRP










Im very happy with my results so far. I managed to hit the right section a few more times but dont have any photos of it yet. Its almost a full correction at that - but in my opinion, far too many hits to get to that stage, almost 10 hits!! But I just wanted to see how close I could get.






Any comments?


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## JMAPUK (Feb 13, 2010)

OK 

I have just seen your video (and i am no expert) but what i would do is on your backing plate i would put a thick black line on it this way you will be able to tell how much presure you are putting on the machine, also i do not believe that you should be speeding up the machine while it is not touching the bodywork the machine should always be started and stopped while it is still touching, are you preping the pad at all ?? you should have about 3 pea sized amounts on the pad.

It is very difficult to see how much pressure you are putting on the pad after you have cover the panel after your first pass 

Just a few starter points 
there are loads of tut's on here for using a DA


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## Scotch (Jul 23, 2009)

A line or two on the backing plate will show you how many times your pad is rotating. Sometimes you can put too much presure on the pad and it will stop going round, you can usually tell by the sound of the motor. All that will do is push the polish about on the paint.

Something like this









When you start out, as the above said, 3 pea size on the pad. You may want to load the pad a little on the first run.

When you spread the polish it will be misty and grey (left side) once worked for a while it will go clear (right)










Work rate will be 2-3 per second and you may need more than one hit to get the right results you want. You can either stop the pad on the paint and then start again at a higher speed or you can speed up as you go. It will take time and practice.

Sorry if I have repeated any of Dave KG's thread, that was were I started too 

HTH


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

As others i am no expert but have used my g220 lots and done a few french cars. Couple of points, definatly do the line on the back of your pads, moderate pressure should rotate the pad 1 to 2 times per second, you need to know you are applying enough pressure it really is key to correction. French paint is not hard so your total number of hits is way too much, that said you were wondering about respray, i suggest testing a different panel to be sure its not to do with varying paint rather than just technique. Also dont waste your time on srp when correcting, its a glaze in reality. What was your rough technique, ie how many passes and pressures on those passes?


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## karl_liverpool (Sep 25, 2008)

to get the polish going on my machines i put a cross on the pad and spread it on the face with my fingers. then 3 small blobs and apply at the lowest speed.


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## 44care (Sep 21, 2009)

Hi guys,

I was using roughly three pea sized amounts per 18" square. I will put some markers on my backing pad and look again at the pressure I was using. As a rough guide I was spreading the polish at the start quite quickly with very little pressure, then i was applying moderate pressure and turning up the speed from a 1 to a 3 on my g220. Then after a few passes on a three I was turning up the pressure from a 3 to a 6 and continuing until paint was clearly visible and no residue remained, i had quite a bit of dust at this stage. Scotch - I appear to be getting to the misty stage very quickly, and then I just keep going at high speed (6) until the mist is gone and i am left with just dust! Is this right - or have the abrasives stopped working at the very early misty stage?

I Went back at it tonight and changed my method slightly. I used farclea G3 paste on a 24" square (about twice the size of my vid) and sprayed water periodically on my pad. I slowed the speed of my passes down from 1inch a second to 1/2 inch per second roughly, and increased the pressure of my passes, and tried to get to a higher speed more quickly!

I stayed at the 3 speed setting for about 3 passes and then went to speed 6 for about 4 passes to completely get rid of the G3 paste. This appeared to work quite well.

I then did a hit of #83 using a very similar method involving water, but maybe with about 2 passes on 3 speed and about 3 on 6 speed, again there was quite a bit of dust.

This combination double hit did work almost as well at my 10 hits yesterday, but I was still left with quite a few RDS's so i think I need a more intrusive pad and polish combination. I am looking at ordering some #105 and using that with a cutting pad. Hopefully this should give me the correction level I want, which can then be refined with my current, not intrusive enough combination.

Paint assessment before my work today.


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## DBSK (Apr 22, 2008)

I use 4" pads as i dont think the G220 can handle the bigger pads as the clutch just lets it slip so much that its hardly moving, i only use 4" pads now and get much better correction.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

I still haven't had a chance to use my megs 105 and 205 so can not compare to your products. If i am honest though i would be hopefull that 205 would correct most of the problems on a panel such as yours with 1 to 2 hits without the use of 105 so would be saving yourself a lot of time with those. You use them slightly differently to products such as menz stuff, it explains it on the bottle but if you want to SEE them in action check out polished bliss's thread on the 155 hour bently, he finishes that off with 205 on a g220, it looked incredible


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## 44care (Sep 21, 2009)

Guys.

Check out my videos of my g220 technique. You can see my black marks on my backing plate as a guide - thanks very much for this excellent tip.

Here is my first (not normally this wet) pass using the g3 compound, i was trying to achieve a slow cut technique in order to get the most out of my abrasives.






Here is my 5 pass (about) (still on my first hit) and you can see the paste is almost gone. Have a close look at seconds 21, 27 & 28, my backing plate stops going round and then goes in the opposite direction for a bit - is this normal?






Also - I found in order to keep the rotations to 1 per second, sometimes i had to lift the machine away from the surface of the vehicle slightly - is this normal?

Any comments much appreciated.

Kind regards,

PS - #105 and cutting pad in the post - happy days!


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## 44care (Sep 21, 2009)

bump!


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Rotating in the opposite direction? I am sure someone will come and give a good explenation but i haven't seen that myself, i thought the motor only span the machine 1 way, perhaps something to do with the counter weights or something? Had a play with my 205 today, you wont regret the 105, as for having to lift off your machine, perhaps you were just slightly off balance and it was catching a little. Oh and i wouldn't spend all your time chasing every last scratch, some are not safe to remove due to depth and size, really just remove 90% or so and bring out as much gloss as possible, it will make all the difference in todays sun


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## Chris_R (Feb 3, 2008)

Opposite spin - it's actually that it's really spinning FASTER. Basically the pad is spinning at the same speed as the camera records in frames per seconds or just slightly faster, the optical illusion is that it then appears to go backwards. So if the camera records at 30 frames per second and the pad is spinning at 30 revolutions per second then the line on your pad will appear to be completely still. So you let off the pressure over the head of the tool a bit and it speeds up the spin matching/greater than the speed of the cameras capture rate.
Watch any TV show of moving cars - look at the wheels - or a helicopter, the blades appear to stop still or turn backwards.
Explanation of the effect here - http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/12397


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## 44care (Sep 21, 2009)

Thanks Chris - but im not entirely sure you are right about this one!! I only mentioned it because i had seen it with my bare eyes and not because i seen it on the video.

Remember before 









Now after using the meguiars #105 and the meguiars cutting pad (the one which didnt fall apart!(see below))














































But look what happened my Cutting pad after two panels.









I was wondering if this was because i washed it in water with my hands and perhaps didnt ring it out fully to let dry overnight? Also - my second cutting pad looks like it will go the same way, as it is starting to seperate from the velcro already too!! Is this because i am putting strain on the pad by bending it into the smaller areas, which is what a 4" pad is for!?

Also, if i wanted a higher level of cut. Albeit the finish turned out pretty good. Would the following pad fit my g220 with the standard velcro backing plate.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...0296905061&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Glad you reposted your results and glad you got it to where you were happy. That pad looks crap!!! If you do a quick search dave was doing a group buy on the hexlogic pads, 3 different pad options then a full set of spot pads. Their pads will be far superior and you could pick up some heavier polishing/compounding pads


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2010)

I noticed on your first video that you where tilting the pad at the edge of your tape guides.... this is what destroyed your pad. The pad should always be flat against the paint. And yes , spot pad is the answer


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## RedUntilDead (Feb 10, 2009)

I started with the das6 da and found correction difficult with 6" pads never mind 7". I thought the counter weights were/are suitable for pads upto 6".


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## 44care (Sep 21, 2009)

Also, if i wanted a higher level of cut. Albeit the finish turned out pretty good. Would the following pad fit my g220 with the standard velcro backing plate.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K:MEWAX:IT

ebay item number - 350296905061


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## shaqs77 (Jun 10, 2008)

Chris_R said:


> Opposite spin - it's actually that it's really spinning FASTER. Basically the pad is spinning at the same speed as the camera records in frames per seconds or just slightly faster, the optical illusion is that it then appears to go backwards. So if the camera records at 30 frames per second and the pad is spinning at 30 revolutions per second then the line on your pad will appear to be completely still. So you let off the pressure over the head of the tool a bit and it speeds up the spin matching/greater than the speed of the cameras capture rate.
> Watch any TV show of moving cars - look at the wheels - or a helicopter, the blades appear to stop still or turn backwards.
> Explanation of the effect here - http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/12397


its called a stroboscopic effect. with aeroplane engines the tips are painted so if you see a solid circle dont walk near it!!!!!!!!!!


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Honestly mate ditch the DA and get a rotary, you won't regret it.


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