# paint coating hardness is lies???



## DAN: (Apr 18, 2010)

Recently tested 2 makes of coatings on 2 different cars. From my results after applying to the letter i can safley say offer nothing in terms of touch/contact resistance.
Carpro cquk and gtechniq c1. The c1 caused a right mess with micro marring and finger swipe the panel leaves marks like it would be on glass lens.

Not spoken to rob at gtech but have done with avi and disapointed with his replys. Asking to wait 10 days for full hardness (waited 20 and tested it) bottle and website says one thing and avi says another. 

Can any one advise on a product that guarantees marr resistance or money back in full as im not convinced these work on soft black paints such as jet black.


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## ianrobbo1 (Feb 13, 2007)

I must admit to being pretty pleased with Wolf's Hard Body, but I haven't had much to compare it with, though since using it I have had a lot less minor marking and bird poo is a synch to remove!! it wont stop stone chips on Honda motorbike paint though that I do know!!


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## adlem (Jul 6, 2008)

Nothing out there yet can claim to be completely mar-resistant. 

Maybe look at the new Modesta range? It leaves the thickest layer of coating on the car


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## DAN: (Apr 18, 2010)

Sounds like marketing at it's best. I shouldn't get drawn into these claims !

My problem is under direct sunlight on full black cars with soft paint. Easy to correct\fix but if just a wax is on the next time it comes to washing the marring starts. Hence trying out the new coatings to overcome this.


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

DAN: said:


> Sounds like marketing at it's best. I shouldn't get drawn into these claims !
> 
> My problem is under direct sunlight on full black cars with soft paint. Easy to correctfix but if just a wax is on the next time it comes to washing the marring starts. Hence trying out the new coatings to overcome this.


If paint is really soft NOTHING will prevent marring. You must wrapped it or change the car


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## DAN: (Apr 18, 2010)

sm81 said:


> If paint is really soft NOTHING will prevent marring. You must wrapped it or change the car


So what paint will it harden and to what effect will the coating have.
You saying it will only harden hard paints lol?

To me it's not making sense at all.


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## DAN: (Apr 18, 2010)

It's a surface coating, so whatever you apply it too it should go hard

(The applicator pads did after use)


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## renton (Nov 27, 2005)

I know how y ou feel about soft paint !!

My mazda has mica blue paint and even just the slightest brush past it will mark it!!


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

DAN: said:


> Recently tested 2 makes of coatings on 2 different cars. From my results after applying to the letter i can safley say offer nothing in terms of touch/contact resistance.
> Carpro cquk and gtechniq c1. The c1 caused a right mess with micro marring and finger swipe the panel leaves marks like it would be on glass lens.
> 
> Not spoken to rob at gtech but have done with avi and disapointed with his replys. Asking to wait 10 days for full hardness (waited 20 and tested it) bottle and website says one thing and avi says another.
> ...


Hi Dan
the coating protection hardness vary on the substrate you coat it on, the harder the clearcoat is the better swirl resisting you get.
you can use 12H hardness coat and still on soft paint it will swirl.
if paint is soft and black it will be harder to protect it from scratches. only if the coating will be thick!! , at least 3 layers ( at least for cquk, each layer 2 microns ).
there is no marketing play here , at least not by CarPro, we never promised full anti scratch proof, there is no such thing in the world . we say it will improve anti scratch effect by up to 50% . 
swirls on cquartz are more fine and small than normal swirls on non coated car, this ensure you the paint is not swirled ,super finishing polish will remove these easy without affecting the coat.
you should compare how is your car with no coat and you will see the difference.

all this info refare to our coatings only, not other brands ofcourse.
HTH.
Avi


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

I am saying this as a Dw member, not a representative OR as a judgment of other manufacturers. 
What you buy is a product that has the "capabilities" to provide what is stated, it's a maximum achievable level not a guarentee. But I agree some are not sold this way I can tell you from personal experience and testing what one can achieve on an already hard paint won't be achieved on a soft paint. But the difference in gains can be much larger on soft paint (if that makes sense) 

What some suffer from is the damage that can be caused in application and removal of the product, it maybe the solvent level or type, I'm not really sure. 

What ican say for sure is a "slick" coating can reduce marring significantly due to reduced friction whilst washing and easier drying

I appreciate this in no way solves your dilemma, but it is an honest view point


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

This car sounds a very obvious candidate for a touch less washing method whenever possible.


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## DAN: (Apr 18, 2010)

Thanks for replies....

To be fair I am someone that has and always does research and before and after use of testing products. Not something I take lightly either. I like to understand the concept of what the product is about and how to apply it (mainly to suit application or to get the best from it)

After 3 coats or cquk over two days (car lives in garage) and testing (over 20+days) by light finger swipe only it left marks that had to be polished in order to remove them. Now given the below features I believe it has offered nothing in terms stratch resistance. and is marketed in such a way that it does - inc the videos. Neither does it state how to achieve it.

Features

- *Idiot proof application in any Temp. from 5~30 deg.C
*
- anti-static

- long-lasting

- strong against acid, acid rain and salt water

- extreme water repelling , Water contact angle 110°

*- anti-scratch , enhance surface hardness*

- Light swirls filling properties , thick layer 1~2 Micron each

- Durable for both cold and hot weather.

Also states *full hardness in 24Hr *

Also thinking that if you was to apply a product that turns into glass or type of glass, wouldn't this coating not be easier to defect? Optical clarity and all that....
(also understand that cleaner slicker\anti static surface prevents less marring when cleaning etc) but just talking about testing the hardness\defects on coated panels


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

DAN: said:


> Thanks for replies....
> 
> To be fair I am someone that has and always does research and before and after use of testing products. Not something I take lightly either. I like to understand the concept of what the product is about and how to apply it (mainly to suit application or to get the best from it)
> 
> ...


Ill get some pictures up later of the coatings I had on my car after 12 months with some interesting results thing to remember the marring is going in to the coating and not as deep in to the paintwork so in theory you wont need to polish so much clearcoat of every time. ?????


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## DAN: (Apr 18, 2010)

Goodfella36 said:


> Ill get some pictures up later of the coatings I had on my car after 12 months with some interesting results thing to remember the marring is going in to the coating and not as deep in to the paintwork so in theory you wont need to polish so much clearcoat of every time. ?????


Please do, thanks. That in sense would work on white or light coloured cars but solid blacks in the sun I could see issues with the finish which in theory would look worse than without a glass type coating

However the paintwork i tested it on had the exact same swipe test without a coating and marks were identical. (leads me to believe it offered nothing in terms of hardness)


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## Chris79100 (Jan 27, 2011)

Completely agree with you!
On my black swingarm paint you can mark the paint with either cquk or c1( old version ) with your finger like before coating.
BUT, with a microfiber cloth it's ok for me now with coating, it will mark without coating with this same mf cloth.


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## riido (Nov 15, 2011)

I personally think you are hoping for the wrong result.

The purpose of these coatings is to aid in keeping the car looking its best while still using the correct wash and maintenance techniques.
Unfortunately, wiping your finger on the lacquer is not considered a part of this.

As for the scientific reason for your findings...
There is just such a huge difference in the thickness of the lacquer and the coating (around 1:100 depending on the car and the coating)
There is a crude analogy that I find fitting...
Consider a pane of glass 4metres x 4metres as the coating.
Now a hard lacquer would a wooden floor for example. You place the pane of glass on the floor and you can easily walk on it.
A soft lacquer could be compared to a swimming pool (crude, I know). Let's assume the swimming pool is also precisely 4m x 4m so you can place the glass on top of it, but step on it and it will crack.
Similarly, a coating will not hold as expected on a soft substrate.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Not often i agree with you Dan but all my customers that have had coatings applied have come to me and their cars looked as bad if not worse than some i see. Water etching seems to be worse to me as well. I think the whole name conjours up an illusion of something that it simply isnt, it drags and hasnt the same slickness and to be honest Zaino Z2pro offers equal protection and better visuals to me.
If people want it i apply it but most that have had it have been disappointed.


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## DAN: (Apr 18, 2010)

Honestly was excited at the thought of these offerings from such products but not so sure on what to make of it all now and exactly what application it's most suited too as I have tested first hand on a show car and a normal ruby black car it is far from acceptable. (making treble OCD sure application is clinical and followed strict instructions. I'm just trying to protect the finish and not wanting to have correct it. (more time, expense etc etc)


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

We never 'sell' anti scratch benefits to our customers as we've also found that this isn't a realistic portrayal of what a customer can expect when a coating is present on their car. We have found that some are more durable than polymer sealants and waxes which in turn make maintaining a car a lot easier.

That said we are finding that nearly all enquiries for new car protection details mention some form of coating manufacturer. There seems to be a growing misconception that coatings will even go as far as protecting against stone chips and more which is slightly concerning and presumably a byproduct of the marketing employed to sell such products.

Water etching does seem to be an issue with some of them too.


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## DAN: (Apr 18, 2010)

Not really about the selling or maintenance. More so the features offered and the application. I have had issues with both from 2 different companies.

I can gaurantee my work but when it comes down to using products there's a certain level of trust you have to deal with in order to execute a finish deemed accepable or flawless.

This is obviously gained from testing and experiance which is why I'm on here now as I want to know more

Marc....Got Zaino on me own car now, just cause it works and the bling factor!


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Any coating on soft black paint is an improvement. Dan, I noticed you've picked two coatings that are 'mid range' so to speak. The '9H' coatings are certainly a step up in terms of marr resistance and coating hardness, and then you've got Opti-Coat as well. :thumb:


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Goodfella36 said:


> Ill get some pictures up later of the coatings I had on my car after 12 months with some interesting results thing to remember the marring is going in to the coating and not as deep in to the paintwork so in theory you wont need to polish so much clearcoat of every time. ?????


Looking for this:thumb:


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

HeavenlyDetail said:


> Not often i agree with you Dan but all my customers that have had coatings applied have come to me and their cars looked as bad if not worse than some i see. Water etching seems to be worse to me as well. I think the whole name conjours up an illusion of something that it simply isnt, it drags and hasnt the same slickness and to be honest Zaino Z2pro offers equal protection and better visuals to me.
> If people want it i apply it but most that have had it have been disappointed.


Which coating you have use?


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## DJBAILEY (May 7, 2011)

If it cures harder than the clear coat then it must offer some marring resistance over bare clear coat. However miniscule.


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

DJBAILEY said:


> If it cures harder than the clear coat then it must offer some marring resistance over bare clear coat. However miniscule.


I agree with this.

I would mention that "old" C1, the original and proper ceramic sealant reduced marring greatly on my last Frp. It was only for over a year and upon sale it still looked immaculate.

Now I have to take some perplexion at soft paint making a difference. Why would that affect the outer coating?

I always trusted these sealants especially old C1 as a sort of second lacquer if you will. It's actually what put me off them in the first place. (i'm a convert) So if this coating is over the soft paint how much difference will it make?

Any wash/drying media shouldn't actually be touching the original paint?

Are these coating genuinely as tough as clearcoat lacquer? I'd like to know if they really are.


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