# Turbo failure



## chrisgreen (Mar 30, 2012)

Not a great day - turbo packed up on my 1.6HDi Citroen C4 on the way to work this morning. Bearings have gone (you can hear it when the car is running).

Citroen dealer wanted £2,500 to fix, so it's currently at a local garage near my office being done for £950. Is the latter a good price for a new turbo, replacement oil pipes, as well as an oil change and new filter?

Car is a 57 plate and has done 92,000 miles (63,000 by me), and I know that the turbo can be a weak point on this particular Peugeot Citroen engine.

Cheers
Chris


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## Jenny19 (Mar 18, 2014)

I had exactly the same problem with that engine in my 57 plate mini last year after about 80k miles. Think it cost me about £1200 to get fixed.
Do you know what caused it? I had my DPF removed and it blew the turbo a few months later. Gave up on minis and second hand cars at that point!


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## VTR_Craig (Dec 29, 2007)

That's a good price. a recon turbo would roughly be around 500/600 + vat.

They sound like they know what they are doing as well, Some garages don't replace the oil pipes etc and wonder why the new turbo goes bang a few months later.

Some turbo manufacturers will not warrant the turbo if the oil pipes etc haven't been replaced.


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## s29nta (Mar 9, 2013)

dont sound to bad a price to me :thumb:


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

Jenny19 said:


> Do you know what caused it?


It would appear that these engines have a small oil feed pipe that blocks and restricts the flow of oil to the turbo, subsequently the turbo dies of oil starvation.


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

This is a common fault on these engines.

i understand there is a modification for the oil way.


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## danwel (Feb 18, 2007)

I would get your turbo reconditioned and it will be about the 500 quid mark then at least you are not going to suffer form the issue again.

If you buy a second hand turbo then it may or may not be close to the end of its life.


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## djgregory (Apr 2, 2013)

danwel said:


> I would get your turbo reconditioned and it will be about the 500 quid mark then at least you are not going to suffer form the issue again.
> 
> If you buy a second hand turbo then it may or may not be close to the end of its life.


Hes getting a brand new turbo so it "shouldn't" happen again in the near future.


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## danwel (Feb 18, 2007)

djgregory said:


> Hes getting a brand new turbo so it "shouldn't" happen again in the near future.


Well in that case that is a good price for new turbo etc and fitting


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

djgregory said:


> Hes getting a brand new turbo so it "shouldn't" happen again in the near future.


Providing the check and the modified oil pipe is fitted :thumb:


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## MEH4N (Mar 15, 2012)

This your regular garage Chris?

That's a good price.


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## Kiashuma (May 4, 2011)

chrisgreen said:


> Not a great day - turbo packed up on my 1.6HDi Citroen C4 on the way to work this morning. Bearings have gone (you can hear it when the car is running).
> 
> Citroen dealer wanted £2,500 to fix, so it's currently at a local garage near my office being done for £950. Is the latter a good price for a new turbo, replacement oil pipes, as well as an oil change and new filter?
> 
> ...


I would say a great price, cost my brother in law 1500 when his went in his Peugeot. Forgive my ignorance but are they the same engine? His went through 2 turbos in a few weeks :doublesho Apparently they oil / swarf needs to be removed 100% but guessing you know this with all pipes etc being replaced.


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

Define good? A good price my seem good but is it buying quality? Do they know the extent in which these engines get so many turbo failures, and why? Will they just do a turbo/oil lines/oil Chnge which imo is not enough.
Ive done so many of these that they are not an easy fix due to the cause.
You should, remove and clean or replace the following
Sump
Oil pick up, strainer in sump
Vac pump
Both oil feed and return pipes to the turbo, and then a second feed pipe after the oil change as a small filter,restrictor is in the pipe.
Oil filter housing
They need two oil changes to reduce the risk of not needing another in the next few weeks. This is how I did them when I was at ford, they used this engine to.
The amount of swarf thst can get left behind when ive done these is beyond a small amount, it literally blocks the oil pick up pipe and vac pump completely.
Just a heads up


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

Give a company called Essex turbos , or midland turbos a call and ask for a price . That way your not paying the garages mark up on the turbo unit


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## chrisgreen (Mar 30, 2012)

Thanks all for the useful advice and guidance. Greatly appreciated.

Rav - not my normal garage - no way I could have limped it up the M40 with no power. It's at a garage near Hook, a couple of miles from my office. Was recommended by the breakdown recovery driver that came out to me and have to say they were very helpful when I got there, including lending me one of their vans to use as a courtesy car as all their cars were out on loan. given I live 35 miles way from the garage, and it's not very easy to get back via public transport, this was extremely helpful.

Will be pricing up turbos with all the places mentioned.

Thanks
Chris


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Always wonder about these "known problems". Though new cars get "thoroughly tested" before ever going on sale, so surely these problems would come up during the testing of these engines in every possible climate and driving conditions, well that's what they spout when releasing a brand new model :lol:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Sorry to hear about your pricey repairs Chris. 

With lots of modern cars ending up turbocharged, there is a lot of people going to get a shock when their turbo fails. Sadly they don't last forever and many will fail prematurely. 

Some of the repair bills are eye-watering.


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## Alan16ac (Jul 28, 2011)

The PSA engines do seem really bad for this. We've had a 1.6 HDi 407 which died, and a 2.0 HDi C4 VTS. I wouldn't buy Peugeot or Citroen again.


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## chrisgreen (Mar 30, 2012)

Alan16ac said:


> The PSA engines do seem really bad for this. We've had a 1.6 HDi 407 which died, and a 2.0 HDi C4 VTS. I wouldn't buy Peugeot or Citroen again.


In the three years I've owned this particular car, I've only had two problems with it. In January this year I had an injector seal fail (which was likely a contributing factor to yesterday's issue) and yesterday the turbo bearings failed - most likely due to oil starvation. I've done a lot of miles in that three years I've owned the car and although the car is well maintained, I 'm open to the fact that some things are going to fail due to wear and tear - just wish it wasn't the more expensive stuff.

I've owned one other PSA car prior to this - bought a Peugeot 106 about 12 years ago, and kept it for four years - a much simpler petrol car and that was bullet-proof reliability-wise. But yes, I probably won't buy another PSA car any time soon. The build-quality and cost-cutting on part quality has got really bad with all of them. Next car is likely to be a Dacia.


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## chrisgreen (Mar 30, 2012)

Got the car back this morning (was actually ready yesterday afternoon but couldn't get away from work in time to rescue it).

They've done a good job - new turbo, new oil feed and return pipes, new oil and filter, all the vacuum pipes and unions cleaned out. Vacuum pump cleaned out and checked, sump cleaned out, new boost pressure sensor. Fingers crossed there won't be a quick repeat of the problem.


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

Sounds good to me. Id do another oil change after 70 od miles to just to clear it out.

My opinion of course


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## stu... (Apr 1, 2014)

The same engine is fitted to a few cars and i had the same issue in my volvo C30 earlier in the year, your price is about right, my DPF also died at the same time so I had it replaced as well just have to keep on top of the oil changes and it should be all good for a long time. 
As a side note if you havent had the cam belt done yet its worth doing soon, some manufacturers suggest doing it at 100k and some say to leave it to 120k which is odd considering its the same engine they are giving diffrent advice on.


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## chrisgreen (Mar 30, 2012)

stu... said:


> The same engine is fitted to a few cars and i had the same issue in my volvo C30 earlier in the year, your price is about right, my DPF also died at the same time so I had it replaced as well just have to keep on top of the oil changes and it should be all good for a long time.
> As a side note if you havent had the cam belt done yet its worth doing soon, some manufacturers suggest doing it at 100k and some say to leave it to 120k which is odd considering its the same engine they are giving diffrent advice on.


Don't worry - I went early on the cam belt and had it and the water pump replaced as part of my 87,500 mile service. PSA reckon 120,000 miles - which I think is insane for a rubber belt.

I'm always spot on with servicing intervals (and making sure the right oil is used), however as a precaution I'm going to start having interim oil changes done between services (so, about every 6,000 miles) as well, just to be on the safe side. With the car entering getting close to 100,000 on the clock, it's worth over-servicing it to try and ensure future reliability.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Its not the Turbo that is the weak point its the feed and return pipes. When servicing the feed pipe should be undone at the top and this pipe must supply a measured amount of oil if it doesn't the turbo will get starved of oil and will fail.

Oil changes are critical on these engines and should be done at 6,000 mile intervals at least to keep everything sweet. Oil MUST be the correct grade 5W30 fully synthetic low ash. Use only top quality oil.

We have two vehicles here a Ford Fiesta TDCI Sport van and the daughters 207 CC both have the same engine and we will do as above..


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Oh and we do a full engine flush every time the oil and filter gets changed !


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

uruk hai said:


> It would appear that these engines have a small oil feed pipe that blocks and restricts the flow of oil to the turbo, subsequently the turbo dies of oil starvation.


Will good quality oil not prevent feed pipe blocking itself with some crap?

Which oil did you used before turbo failed ?


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## chrisgreen (Mar 30, 2012)

Alzak said:


> Which oil did you used before turbo failed ?


Castrol Edge 5w30 Low Saps (ACEA C3 standard), which has been used for the last three services.


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## Alan16ac (Jul 28, 2011)

Yeah, the 106 is that simple there's not much to go wrong. My sister had one as her first car, she must've crashed it into all sorts! And it wasn't maintained well by her, but it went on for ages.
2 of our cars are Skodas with the old 1.9 130 PD engine, and it's the best diesel I've had.
Does the Dacia have the 1.5 diesel? I think that's the same as the Nissan/Renault 1.5 isn't it?


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

chrisgreen said:


> Castrol Edge 5w30 Low Saps (ACEA C3 standard), which has been used for the last three services.


Not really great oil semi synthetic oil for mass market.


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

Alzak said:


> Not really great oil semi synthetic oil for mass market.


I was under the impression that Castrol Edge was fully synthetic ?


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

uruk hai said:


> I was under the impression that Castrol Edge was fully synthetic ?


But is not ... Base for this oil is mineral.


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## chrisgreen (Mar 30, 2012)

Quick update - car is going back in tomorrow for more work.

Despite the new turbo and associated work, having put about 500-600 miles down it is clear that the car is running rougher than normal and I'm still having to run it harder than normal to attain speed - especially in the 40-70 range. Turbo seems to be OK and is not making any noises, so starting to think there may be more wrong with the car such as the EGR valve may have failed or be gunked up.

Also had a cruise control failure warning on the way home tonight, which may be an unrelated brake switch failure (cheap part thank god), or could be a by product of the performance issues.

Will update after the car's been back to the garage.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

EGR failure will not make car any slower ...


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

Wang Chung turbo. ?


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## chrisgreen (Mar 30, 2012)

Steve said:


> Wang Chung turbo. ?


No, it's a Garrett.


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

chrisgreen said:


> No, it's a Garrett.


Strange then. May have a minor boost leak


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

Alzak said:


> But is not ... Base for this oil is mineral.


In that case could you explain to me why it's described and sold as fully synthetic oil, may sound daft but unless there's a percentage of mineral content that still allows it to be sold as "Fully synthetic" then I don't understand ?


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## chrisgreen (Mar 30, 2012)

Steve said:


> Strange then. May have a minor boost leak


That's what I'm hoping it is (as it is a fairly cheap fix). Given so many turbo-related hoses were off being cleaned when the turbo was replaced, it could be that one has either not been reseated properly or that one was starting to perish & being disturbed during the turbo change has caused it to split.


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

The thick metal boost pipe is prone to cracking at the on the bracket were it bolts to the engine. Brakes on the weld. Done a few of those


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

This might be of interest... 
http://www.theturboguy.com/psa-ford-dv6-engine---warning.html


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

^^normally noticed by carbon build up around the injector body and a hissing when the engine is running^^
Used special tools when at ford which blocked the hold of the injector tip and cleaned it out in situ.
Never had any problems and ive never had a turbo job come back.
Regular oil changes is the key to these. Carbon build up is everywhere in the engines


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## chrisgreen (Mar 30, 2012)

Car went in this morning, and came back out a couple of hours later. No leaks found, but there was a fault code logged relating to the boost pressure sensor (which was a bit odd as this sensor was replaced - with a genuine one - when I had the turbo done).

Codes have been cleared, the car has been given a full battrey-off reset (which on a C4 can cure all manner of issues - I speak from first-hand experience) and the turbo settings recalibrated just to be on the safe side. Initial drive back from the garage appeared to be OK, car seemed to be pulling normally. However, I will have a better idea if all is indeed well this evening when I have my 20 mile run along the M3 at proper motorway speeds.

If anyone is heading along the M3 northbound this evening between J5-J2 and sees a Gold C4 on the hard shoulder, give us a wave


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

chrisgreen said:


> Car went in this morning, and came back out a couple of hours later. No leaks found, but there was a fault code logged relating to the boost pressure sensor (which was a bit odd as this sensor was replaced - with a genuine one - when I had the turbo done).
> 
> Codes have been cleared, the car has been given a full battrey-off reset (which on a C4 can cure all manner of issues - I speak from first-hand experience) and the turbo settings recalibrated just to be on the safe side. Initial drive back from the garage appeared to be OK, car seemed to be pulling normally. However, I will have a better idea if all is indeed well this evening when I have my 20 mile run along the M3 at proper motorway speeds.
> 
> If anyone is heading along the M3 northbound this evening between J5-J2 and sees a Gold C4 on the hard shoulder, give us a wave


Relating to what with the sensor? electrical fault? Boost pressure readings out of parameters?. ( under or over )

See how it goes mate. I cant see what more than can do than basic settings on the vac for the turbo but we shall see.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

uruk hai said:


> In that case could you explain to me why it's described and sold as fully synthetic oil, may sound daft but unless there's a percentage of mineral content that still allows it to be sold as "Fully synthetic" then I don't understand ?


Most of main petrochemical companies are able to use fully synthetic wording when oil is not 100% synthetic not sure why ...


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## danwel (Feb 18, 2007)

Alzak said:


> Most of main petrochemical companies are able to use fully synthetic wording when oil is not 100% synthetic not sure why ...


Its a bit like when you look at Carbnauba content percentages on wax pots but not sure how you can say something is 100% synthetic if it isn't but that's clearly another story


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