# Removing wheels - question



## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

Ok, as I'm still fairly new to detailing, I am considering taking my wheels off this weekend & giving them a damn good clean.

But what I wanted to know is that when you guys put them back on, do you use a torque gun or do you just do it the old way with the standard wheel brace and tighten...that method?

Sorrry to sound stupid, but is it more advisable to tighten them according to the manufacturers torque recommendation.....I'm just thinking of this purely from a safety point of view.


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## cobra (Feb 18, 2012)

get a torque wrench they start at £15

machine mart. amazon, argos


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Best with torque wrench i think you may get a good cheap one at aldi or Lidl but for years the wheel brace did me fine, but you have no time to change wheels you have a bird to pull


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

Derekh929 said:


> Best with torque wrench i think you may get a good cheap one at aldi or Lidl but for years the wheel brace did me fine, but you have no time to change wheels you have a bird to pull


:lol:

She can tighten my nuts anytime!!!! :lol: :lol:


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## stantheman (Dec 23, 2010)

It's good to torque!


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## leemckenna (Oct 11, 2011)

yes would recomend using a torque wrench and tighten them to the manufactors spec if you dont know the settings if you post your make model and year i will get them for you off auto data


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## kasman (Sep 10, 2009)

Over tightening a wheel can be just as dangerous as the opposite.
If you have a torque wrench then it is always better to use it. If not, tighten up with the wheel brace etc, then head of to your local garage and ask them kindly to torque them for you. 
If no charge, it will do you good to offer something if you go back another time:thumb:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> :lol:
> 
> She can tighten my nuts anytime!!!! :lol: :lol:


Steady on you have to get the wheels of first you can't rush these things


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

kasman said:


> Over tightening a wheel can be just as dangerous as the opposite.
> If you have a torque wrench then it is always better to use it. If not, tighten up with the wheel brace etc, then head of to your local garage and ask them kindly to torque them for you.
> If no charge, it will do you good to offer something if you go back another time:thumb:


Great advice, that's what I do.

I tighten the nuts with a wheel brace then within 24 hours pop down to my local tyre specialist and get them torque tightened and the air pressure checked and tyres filled up with nitrogen for a squids - none of this air in tyre malarky :thumb:


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

leemckenna said:


> yes would recomend using a torque wrench and tighten them to the manufactors spec if you dont know the settings if you post your make model and year i will get them for you off auto data


Hi leemckenna

Please may I have the torque settings for an Audi A4 Cab 2.0TFSI S-line Sept 07 as stated from auto data. :thumb:


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

I keep the local chaps at tyre place on my side with beer money or a bottle of wine, and he then just takes my wheel off and puts the spare on, when I ask, mornings are good for many it is a simple job I have back issues so it is almost impossible, if you strip the nuts or snap one off, that will cost you more than the £15 in time alone.

Wheels off at the start anyway, arms now like I mean it....ongoing

Good Luck.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Torque wrench all the way! 

ooooh, and I use copper grease too!!!! :devil:

:thumb:


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

Oh yes, copper grease is mandatory on all wheel bolts - funnily enough a 'copper' told me about that tip :thumb:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Tips said:


> Oh yes, copper grease is mandatory on all wheel bolts - funnily enough a 'copper' told me about that tip :thumb:


Don't start this debate again Tips...

:lol:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=255111

:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho

:thumb:


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

Ha, ha, brilliant - your posts always crack me up.

BTW what's a conical washer? :lol:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Tips said:


> Ha, ha, brilliant - your posts always crack me up.
> 
> BTW what's a conical washer? :lol:


:lol:

A conical washer sir:










:thumb:


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## sirkuk (Mar 5, 2012)

I just use the wrench supplied in the car tool kit and get them as tight as I can by hand. Chances are you're not going to be able to over tighten by much with the supplied tool unless you're a gorilla or using more than your hand. Just check them again after a couple hundred miles to make sure none are coming loose.

In all honesty, I don't think many garages torque them up properly. I know my local garage just goes at them with a windy gun. Garage I bought my car from too had torque'd the lock nuts far tighter than the wheel nuts so I get the feeling they never went around them with a torque wrench.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

I have an extenable wrench the amount of torque you can get on these things is incredible way way over the manufacturers spec'd torque 

which is precisely why I own a torque wrench , The nm's need to be right .

Way I look at it is , My tyres are the only thing thats in contact with the road , My tyres are fitted to my wheels , The wheels need to be on properly


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## sirkuk (Mar 5, 2012)

R7KY D said:


> I have an extenable wrench


That came as part of the car's tool kit?

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

sirkuk said:


> That came as part of the car's tool kit?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


No , I've had it ages I use it to take off the nuts , OEM wrenches are crapola


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## Schodoodles (Jan 20, 2012)

I found this handy PDF doc that might come in handy for those wanting to use the precise torque settings on the bolts. Must admit though, I do it by hand using the supplied wrench (though not amazing) and do it hand tight putting a bit of weight on it too.
Might invest in a torque wrench now tho! :lol:

http://www.conti-online.com/generat...atures/torque-settings/torque-settings-en.pdf


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## SKY (Sep 25, 2011)

I never use copper slip on the fastners but I always use it on the disc that the wheel fits onto as in the past the alloy has oxidised the wheel onto the hub and its required a damn good hammering to get the blighter off.


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## alfajim (May 4, 2011)

i remember someone telling me if your alloy wheel is stuck in, loosen the bolts and brive slowly over a brick. it should break it free. never needed to try it mind.
as for wheel bolt torque settings, i rarely take them off so they're left as when they left the garage / tyre place.
i've got a breaker bar, can you set torque settings on them?


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## DaveDesign (May 6, 2008)

alfajim said:


> i remember someone telling me if your alloy wheel is stuck in, loosen the bolts and brive slowly over a brick. it should break it free. never needed to try it mind.


I prefer the kicking, hammering and swearing method untill it comes off.

Copper slip on the hub lip is a winner, saves all the above.


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

kasman said:


> *Over tightening a wheel can be just as dangerous as the opposite.*
> If you have a torque wrench then it is always better to use it. If not, tighten up with the wheel brace etc, then head of to your local garage and ask them kindly to torque them for you.
> If no charge, it will do you good to offer something if you go back another time:thumb:


Here's the result of over tightening:


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## leemckenna (Oct 11, 2011)

hi tips sorry for the late reply its 120 newton meters


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## adf27 (Mar 14, 2012)

Tips said:


> Great advice, that's what I do.
> 
> I tighten the nuts with a wheel brace then within 24 hours pop down to my local tyre specialist and get them torque tightened and the air pressure checked and tyres filled up with nitrogen for a squids - none of this air in tyre malarky :thumb:


'Normal' air just not good enough?? :lol::lol:


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

adf27 said:


> 'Normal' air just not good enough?? :lol::lol:


My air is free and it has 78% nitrogen in it:lol:

Also worth noting that when they fill your tyres with nitrogen at a pound a go, do they vaccuum out the normal air form the tyre first? No, I didn't think they did:lol:


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

fatdazza said:


> My air is free and it has 78% nitrogen in it:lol:
> 
> Also worth noting that when they fill your tyres with nitrogen at a pound a go, do they vaccuum out the normal air form the tyre first? No, I didn't think they did:lol:


My tyre specialist shop fully deflate the tyre, then re-inflate them with nitrogen, granted their will be 'some' natural air in the deflated tyres.

I get at least two+ years driving during 8 weather seasons with no loss in tyre pressure, it's the best £4 I've spent on my car. :thumb:


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

adf27 said:


> 'Normal' air just not good enough?? :lol::lol:


No buddy, I've been driving with nitrogen filled tyres for the last ten years, and would not be without them :thumb:


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## sergeant (May 20, 2011)

Tips,

I am local to you out of interest who is your trusted tyre fitter, just had 2 new tyres fitted and both alloys were damaged in the process I only had them refurbed last year, the place responsible is footing the bill for them to be fully repaired but if I can find a good tyre supplier and fitter that would be good.

Many thanks.


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

Hi sergeant

Sorry to hear of your troubles, My local tyre fitter company is Selecta Tyre they have 16 branches - I use the Stockport branch on Lingard lane, SK6 2QT

They match any tyre price for me on-line, so long as it's in stock. They let me watch them work close up in the bay, they apply copper grease to my bolts at no extra cost, re-fitted wheels are hand torqued to manufacturers specification, a FREE 25 point Auto Health Check every time I'm there and of course it's all about the nitro inflate for me.

Hope that helps.


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## GLN (Mar 26, 2011)

Out of interest how does everyone jack up there car up and take off there wheels quickly as when ever I do it seems to take far to long and think it could be done much quicker and easier :lol:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

some things should not be done quickly 

I use my breaker bar to loosen the bolts, muck the car up, stick it on axle stands, then remove the wheels... I'm no F1 pit crew, so it takes as long as it takes!! :lol:

:thumb:


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## MortenDK (Apr 1, 2012)

Just a little note from a VAG mechanic, but vw warns about using copper grease on wheel nuts and bolts, some thin oil/grease is better as copper can make the aluminum rims corrode faster 

As for how I do a wheel change in the field, I use a airbag made for lifting as this don't harm the panels and such and it can be used on really low cars :-D


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

MortenDK said:


> Just a little note from a VAG mechanic, but vw warns about using copper grease on wheel nuts and bolts, some thin oil/grease is better as copper can make the aluminum rims corrode faster


Wat?










I'll bear that advice in mind, thanks.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

he has a point re copper/ aluminium

http://www.finishing.com/78/97.shtml

http://www.silverstonefactors.com/i...ypage-ask.tpl&product_id=1043&category_id=350

http://www.molyslip.co.uk/anti_sieze_compounds/

:thumb:


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## GJH0702 (Oct 21, 2011)

Excuse my ignorance - what are the 'benefits' of having Nitrogen in tyres.
I run a Freelander (not a fast car !!)
Many thanks


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

Perceived benefits, see here


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

If you're not so confident about removing the wheel, then just jack up one corner at a time with the wheel still on the car to give you extra access to the arch. This way you're able to spin the wheel also to get behind the brake caliper and all of the way around the tyre.


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## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

Tips said:


> Great advice, that's what I do.
> 
> I tighten the nuts with a wheel brace then within 24 hours pop down to my local tyre specialist and get them torque tightened and the air pressure checked and tyres filled up with nitrogen for a squids - none of this air in tyre malarky :thumb:


You know this 'air' stuff is nearly 80% Nitrogen?
That Uniflate link is a bit like one of those 1950s public information films that doesn't really tell you anything but shows you a picture of what might happen if you don't do something urgently, or if you carry on standing on a ladder that you've put on the forks of a lift truck and raise it to its max height so you can change a lamp.

I check my tyres pressures regularly, still using old fashioned air here, and find that I rarely have to adjust them.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

I've just ordered this Torque Wrench from Amazon through the recommendation of my mate DW58.

I have never before used a Torque Wrench so I'm obviously very nervous/wary about using it, but after viewing several videos on Youtube it looked to be fairly simple to use, so I guess I just gotta man up a bit & do it! :lol:

Silly question here, but when your tightening the wheel bolts up, can you tighten them all up as you normally would with a standard wheel brace & then use the Torque Wrench to fully tighten?


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## MAUI (Feb 1, 2008)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I've just ordered this Torque Wrench from Amazon through the recommendation of my mate DW58.
> 
> I have never before used a Torque Wrench so I'm obviously very nervous/wary about using it, but after viewing several videos on Youtube it looked to be fairly simple to use, so I guess I just gotta man up a bit & do it! :lol:Nothing to be nervous about using a torque wrench.
> 
> Silly question here, but when your tightening the wheel bolts up, can you tighten them all up as you normally would with a standard wheel brace & then use the Torque Wrench to fully tighten?


Yes you can, just stager the tightening of the lug nuts.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

MAUI said:


> Yes you can, just stager the tightening of the lug nuts.


Thanks.

What do you mean by 'stager' the tightening of the nuts?


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## The Pan Man (Apr 16, 2010)

Just a little note from a VAG mechanic, but vw warns about using copper grease on wheel nuts and bolts, some thin oil/grease is better as copper can make the aluminum rims corrode faster 

You should not have any Copper-Slip on the alloy, it should be on the THREADS of the bolts and the lip or face of the hub. Copper - Slip is an anti seize compound it stops things sticking to each other. All the materials non compatibility rubbish is all theoretical out of the USA. When I was working on machines bigger than a 3 bed detached house it was always used to stop things sticking to each other especially stuff that has to be removed.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

The Pan Man said:


> Just a little note from a VAG mechanic, but vw warns about using copper grease on wheel nuts and bolts, some thin oil/grease is better as copper can make the aluminum rims corrode faster
> 
> You should not have any Copper-Slip on the alloy, it should be on the THREADS of the bolts and the lip or face of the hub. Copper - Slip is an anti seize compound it stops things sticking to each other. All the materials non compatibility rubbish is all theoretical out of the USA. When I was working on machines bigger than a 3 bed detached house it was always used to stop things sticking to each other especially stuff that has to be removed.


Thanks for your response but I'm afraid that it seems a little Greek to me. 

I'm not very technical minded & totally new to 'Torqueing' so I've no idea what you mean.


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## The Pan Man (Apr 16, 2010)

Not being funny, but you should get someone to show you how to do it, before you have a go. Just to be on the safe side if you get my drift.


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## PeteT (Feb 26, 2006)

There's a school of thought which says you shouldn't put copper grease on wheel bolt threads. The grease reduces the friction on the threads and means they are tighter than they would be without the grease and may be 'stretched'. I don't grease mine and I've never had a problem undoing them.


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## The Pan Man (Apr 16, 2010)

PeteT, I think that you mean "You should not apply anything to the tapered faces of the bolts" that is where the torque figure is generated, not on the thread.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

Wrench arrived this morning, going to read the instructions carefully.


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## dailly92 (Mar 22, 2012)

Generally i "nip up" the wheel bolts with a brace or bar then use torque wrench to tighten bolts.

Also note wheels should always be tightened using oposites. Ie if 4 stuf you would do 1 then go diagonal then up the diagonal. 5 or 6 stud should alway be the one acrooss from the one your tightening. 

Correct usage of a torque wrench and to help increase accuracy is to increase the torqu gradually i.e set to 60 Nm do a set then 90 Nm then go to you manufacturer recomended torque.


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## Jacktdi (Oct 21, 2010)

Never got on with wheel braces, if your nuts are over tight they won't crack them off, I even managed to snap a wheel brace once because a nut was on way to tight.


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## superd (Sep 23, 2013)

personally i use a breaker bar and a socket, never any grease etc and just stand on it then after about 30 miles just check them. thats the advise we always gave when i was working on the roadside and like someone had posted, do the opposite nuts up


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## slineclean (Dec 23, 2011)

Just proves u don't know anything about cars. I wouldn't say I over tighten them??but you never know . Anyone recommend a decent or decent brand name one I can get


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