# Bought some Autobalm as well now!



## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

I've just ordered some Bilt Hamber Autobalm for use on the Puma (which lives outside and has a few minor swirls that need filling in) - I've decided to keep my Natty's Red (which I've also only just bought) just for the XR2. 

I hope the Auto Balm's as good at minor swirl filling as people say - anyone got any pics of a before and after?

(must stop buying LSPs now! :lol: )


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

see my Rolls Royce thread - shows it fairly well I reckon....

I worked in the first layer fairly well with medium pressure, but after 30 mins to cure i lightly wiped the 2nd layer over, and that seemed to give the best filling :thumb:


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Cheers for that! :thumb: 
Blimey - that is very impressive!! My Puma's not as bad as that first pic 'pre Autobalm' so it should be ideal. Can't wait for it to arrive now


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

the pics with the flash make it look worse than it looks in normal daylight, but it has swirls visible when the sun shines - or it did 

AB takes a little skill to apply - I use a pretty damp MF towel folded to a point, then dab a TINY amount of AB on it and rub it into the paint, like polishing a shoe. If you see a blob of AB on the cloth you have way too much and do a small area like max 2'x2'! Just the slightest wipe across the surface of the AB is plenty and wip it over the paint. Buff it immediately and move to the next area. Keep the cloth damp all the time - I keep a small garden sprayer with me and mist it once every 2-3 small sections, to keep it going. You can also use the supplied pad but i just found it easier in the end to use a MF cloth.

Sounds complicated, but once you get it then it really is very easy. The Rolls took me about 30 mins and it is as big as 3-4 Pumas!

Hope you like it. I used it on a dark green MGB and it really adds a a nice deep gloss to it :thumb:


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## Russ and his BM (Jan 1, 2008)

I polished my 175K golf with it for the first time in over a year yesterday, and 2 neighbours said how well it brought the car up, which was great.

The paint on the car is trashed, really. It is heavily swirled and full of RIDS. There are rust patches, and really, the car is a bit of a shed. I know it was an extravagance to treat a banger like that to a decent polish, but because you use so little of the balm, it was worth it for the comments alone.

Needless to say, the car looks great, and beads powerfully in the rain. The swirls are well hidden (and that's saying a lot!) and I concur with earlier comments about the polish 'darkening' the paint. My bright red golf was 'on the turn' to pink, but that's all sorted now, without reaching for the rotary!

I love this stuff. It hides stonechips too, and leaves no white dust. It takes more effort than SRP to buff off and the finish is comparable. In the past, SRP was my usual staple product, but now it's auto-balm. 

As for durability, well, I never used to top off my SRP with EGP, so I was never that impressed with SRP's durability as a stand-alone product. We'll see how a good layer of balm goes. I ended up using a round applicatior, heavily dampened and wrung out, and things were fine. I used much more than the chap did on the rolls though. Imagine spreading margerine or butter on your toast. That sort of thickness of the product, over about a quarter of the area of the palm of your hand would do a front wing.

Enjoy when it arrives, mate!


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

^^^ lets see some pics 

I saw a post from another forum that was linked here when AB first got mentioned. Its showed a VERY oxidised dark red Volvo and the guy used only AB to bring up an awesome orginial colour without polishing. I know people (including me on the Rolls above) have layered this stuff, but I have used it on several single stage paint cars and it definitely turns the cloth the colour of the paint., indicating some chemical cleaning going on. It sounds like it is certainly enough cleaning to remove light oxidisation at the very least!

Maybe the oxidised finishes need a bit more product, but too thick on a decent finish and you will be wasting product and a LOT of energy removing the stuff 

I plan to try a machine application shortly and see how that goes???


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2008)

I did a neighbours car with it on saturday (wanted a second coat to finish off the light scratches and swirls, but she was out all day) and I must say its VERY good once you get it working.

It does not go on like a normal wax, nor does it go on like SRP, just read the paper that comes with it and just "dab" the applicator, less is more!

When you see it "bead" it wont "bead" like a normal wax but thats just B-H Balm doing what it does.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Bigpikle said:


> I saw a post from another forum that was linked here when AB first got mentioned. Its showed a VERY oxidised dark red Volvo and the guy used only AB to bring up an awesome orginial colour without polishing.


www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=&t=438920


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## wedgie (Apr 5, 2008)

Pics from the thread that PJS posted...

before








After








before








After









and the complete car


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## malinmip (Sep 26, 2007)

wedgie said:


> Pics from the thread that PJS posted...
> 
> before
> 
> ...


Holy crap! What a turnaround! I used AutoBalm for wintertime and was very happy with it.


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## Mossman (Jan 10, 2008)

Whoa! Very impressive!


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

....and you wonder why I am unsure about using it over another product :lol:

that is very impressive. I had a call from my father-in-law about the green MGB I did for him, as he has been stopped in the street several times to be asked about the car, which hasnt happened in the 30 years he owned it before!


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## Bilt-Hamber Lab (Apr 11, 2008)

malinmip said:


> Holy crap! What a turnaround! I used AutoBalm for wintertime and was very happy with it.


:thumb: I would love to use this as a headline in our magazine adverts! Do you think we would get away with it?


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## freon warrior (May 31, 2006)

*Holy crap! What a turnaround! I used AutoBalm for wintertime and was very happy with it.*



Bilt-Hamber Lab said:


> :thumb: I would love to use this as a headline in our magazine adverts! Do you think we would get away with it?


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## malinmip (Sep 26, 2007)

Bilt-Hamber Lab said:


> :thumb: I would love to use this as a headline in our magazine adverts! Do you think we would get away with it?


Glad you like it 

P.S
Can you contact me regarding reseller issues? I have tried to contact Bilt Hamber Kid without success :-/


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## bilt-hamber kid (Dec 4, 2007)

Hi Mm,

Sorry - I wasn't being rude. I replied to you a few weeks back and asked how your trials went. As it stands, given the demands of your location and BH performance, I imagine it'd be a great opportunity for you.  

PJ,

That Volvo is a cracker - banger racers love 'em. Hard as nails and rwd too. I had one for a year. It cost me £200 and was one of the most relaxing lazy drives I've had. Great fun too when you hustled it along. :thumb: 

I quite like this for a strapline..

"I had a call from my father-in-law about the green MGB I did for him, as he has been stopped in the street several times to be asked about the car, which hasnt happened in the 30 years he owned it before!"

I am pleased that he's happy with it Pickle.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Al - As you know he gave me back £50 worth of 'beauty wax' and associated products (the one that many, many rave about on here ) and told me to just get him his own AB instead, as that was what he wanted on all his cars from now on :lol:

The Rolls has already started making appearances at some key RR events, so he wants a top-up, and the MGA needs its polishing finished and a coat of AB as well now - will let you know how that comes along as its a beauty of a car


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## PWOOD (Apr 30, 2007)

Plastic trim safe ( I'm right on this I hope?) and fills better than SRP. Sounds like AB was meant for my soft Honda paint.


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## wedgie (Apr 5, 2008)

PWOOD said:


> Plastic trim safe ( I'm right on this I hope?) and fills better than SRP. Sounds like AB was meant for my soft Honda paint.


Thats what im hoping for mate....

I have it sitting waiting to try on my integra...


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## malinmip (Sep 26, 2007)

bilt-hamber kid said:


> Hi Mm,
> 
> Sorry - I wasn't being rude. I replied to you a few weeks back and asked how your trials went. As it stands, given the demands of your location and BH performance, I imagine it'd be a great opportunity for you.


Nope, I didn't think so. I must have missed that mail somehow or it has gone to /dev/null 

But anyways, thanks for the PM.. I will answer you with details asap


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## PWOOD (Apr 30, 2007)

wedgie said:


> Thats what im hoping for mate....
> 
> I have it sitting waiting to try on my integra...


It will be sitting a while then if the weather is anything like it is in Stirling today. Please let me know how you get on once you have.


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Really hope mine turns up today as I think I've got to the limit of how many of the minor swirls I can get out by hand on the Puma. The remaining few light ones will hopefully be masked/filled with the Autobalm - come on postie!! :lol: 

Does anyone know if the applicator (be it either the supplied one, or a megs foam one) can be stored inside the container. I keeps a megs one inside the lid of my Natty's red and it's fine for the next application). 

I assume this is okay with the Autobalm as well, or will it need washing after every use (it's just with it requiring to be damp when in use, I wondered if storing inside would be okay)?


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## Glossmax (May 9, 2007)

Pit Viper said:


> Really hope mine turns up today as I think I've got to the limit of how many of the minor swirls I can get out by hand on the Puma. The remaining few light ones will hopefully be masked/filled with the Autobalm - come on postie!! :lol:
> 
> Does anyone know if the applicator (be it either the supplied one, or a megs foam one) can be stored inside the container. I keeps a megs one inside the lid of my Natty's red and it's fine for the next application).
> 
> I assume this is okay with the Autobalm as well, or will it need washing after every use (it's just with it requiring to be damp when in use, I wondered if storing inside would be okay)?


It's about twice the size of the tin, so no.
You will be surprised how much Auto-Balm cleans as well so you will probably want to clean it after each wash.
Megs one would fit but there is no room in the tin for it until you use a lot of it and it will get covered in Auto-Balm (as it very soft) which is not good as a little goes a long way.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

I just keep a Costco MF for the job, then chuck it away as it is pretty much useless after the job... Tin is like a large tin of shoe polish with a screw on lid - very un-detailing like really


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

So, just like Collinite then!


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

PJS said:


> So, just like Collinite then!


without the need for an air chisel to get the bloody lid off though :lol:


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## Bilt-Hamber Lab (Apr 11, 2008)

Bigpikle said:


> I just keep a Costco MF for the job, then chuck it away as it is pretty much useless after the job... Tin is like a large tin of shoe polish with a screw on lid - very un-detailing like really


Don't you like our tub? We were going to use all aluminium ones at one stage.


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## PootleFlump (Jan 1, 2006)

The tubs are absolutely fine


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## aceraf (Apr 11, 2008)

I realise this is a AIO, but can this be topped up with a wax?


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Bilt-Hamber Lab said:


> Don't you like our tub? We were going to use all aluminium ones at one stage.


I like it, although have worried more than once about dropping it... Just goes against the typical style of funky looking detailing packaging - not a bad thing at all, very understated 

all aluminium would be VERY nice though...


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## freon warrior (May 31, 2006)

aceraf said:


> I realise this is a AIO, but can this be topped up with a wax?


Would like to know the answer to this as well.


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## Russ and his BM (Jan 1, 2008)

Sorry chaps, major league laptop trouble. I have reloaded the operated system (and ordered an iMac to be safe!) but I'm on borrowed time with this old machine. Sorry, I took no photos (and couldn't guarantee this computer would be able to load them up anyway!)
Cheers, Russ


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

aceraf said:


> I realise this is a AIO, but can this be topped up with a wax?





freon warrior said:


> Would like to know the answer to this as well.


In short - yes, but the chances are you'll wind up removing the AB or at best, the carny will fail to bond and you'll've gained nothing for your efforts.
Besides which, the whole point of wax over sealant is based on the typical "scaremongering" that ALL sealants are sterile and lack a certain something which carnauba does - warmth/flake pop/wetness.
Rest assured that AB lacks none of these, but bear in mind the difference in change is very small, and to some, they'll see no change at all, bar the beading characteristics of the wax - which is a bit different to AB and most sealants in general.

So, stick 2 layers of AB on, and stand back and admire. Otherwise LPL and a carny wax of choice if you must have the beading aesthetics.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Russ and his BM said:


> Sorry chaps, major league laptop trouble. I have reloaded the operated system (and ordered an iMac to be safe!) but I'm on borrowed time with this old machine. Sorry, I took no photos (and couldn't guarantee this computer would be able to load them up anyway!)
> Cheers, Russ


Good call on the iMac!


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Bilt-Hamber Lab said:


> Don't you like our tub? We were going to use all aluminium ones at one stage.


Interesting, since it carries the theme on from the Auto Wash.
Lighter than glass I'm sure too.


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## bilt-hamber kid (Dec 4, 2007)

Pete will now come along to tell you a tale of woe and grief about the ally bottle..


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

How long should Autobalm be left before buffing off?

My tub says on the lid 'to follow the instructions on the base' but there's no lable or anything on the base of mine


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## Glossmax (May 9, 2007)

Pit Viper said:


> How long should Autobalm be left before buffing off?
> 
> My tub says on the lid 'to follow the instructions on the base' but there's no lable or anything on the base of mine


Didn't you get a sheet with instructions on it?
They can be found on the Bilt-Hamber website.
My way:
Basically apply with a lightly damp applicator and apply as thin as possible almost working it like a paint cleaner, then wait a moment and take it straight off using either the stockinette or a MF (again I like this to be damp).


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Pug_101 said:


> Didn't you get a sheet with instructions on it?
> They can be found on the Bilt-Hamber website.
> My way:
> Basically apply with a lightly damp applicator and apply as thin as possible almost working it like a paint cleaner, then wait a moment and take it straight off using either the stockinette or a MF (again I like this to be damp).


How embarrassing for me  - I've just looked in the bottom of the mailing bag and there, sure enough, is a full sheet with instructions on it - that'll teach me to be so eager just to get the actual product out without thoroughly looking the packaging LOL!

Thanks for the tips anyway!


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

2-3 mins depending on warmth, sunshine, wind.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

I take it off as soon as I put down the applicator and can find a clean MF - any longer and you will be getting a bicep workout 

Used the BH applicator again tonight for a few panels and growing to like it more - might persevere with it but am tempted to try and find a machine application technique to save a little effort


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## Glossmax (May 9, 2007)

Bigpikle said:


> I take it off as soon as I put down the applicator and can find a clean MF - any longer and you will be getting a bicep workout
> 
> Used the BH applicator again tonight for a few panels and growing to like it more - might persevere with it but am tempted to try and find a machine application technique to save a little effort


Works fine for me using a Blue finishing pad from LCC on a DA.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Bigpikle said:


> I take it off as soon as I put down the applicator and can find a clean MF - any longer and you will be getting a bicep workout
> 
> Used the BH applicator again tonight for a few panels and growing to like it more - might persevere with it but am tempted to try and find a machine application technique to save a little effort


:lol:

Just don't do what I did recently - the whole car and then use the machine with suede MF bonnet to remove. Even with 2 heads (Cyclo), it was a big mistake!
Incredible shine and all, but flippin' 'eck, the motor was probably close to having a nervous breakdown!


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Pug_101 said:


> Works fine for me using a Blue finishing pad from LCC on a DA.


how did you do that? damp pad/speed/1 panel at a time & buff?


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## Glossmax (May 9, 2007)

Bigpikle said:


> how did you do that? damp pad/speed/1 panel at a time & buff?


Yep, Damp pad (not wet) a panel at a time or half if it's a big panel. Moderate speed nothing to fast just found a speed that felt nice to use (Festool speed 3). Like I said earlier I have found working the balm well and thin helps.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Pug_101 said:


> Yep, Damp pad (not wet) a panel at a time or half if it's a big panel. Moderate speed nothing to fast just found a speed that felt nice to use (Festool speed 3). Like I said earlier I have found working the balm well and thin helps.


cheers mate - will try it next time and see how it works. If its still small areas at a time i wonder if there is really much time saving to be had though 

oh well, even the big Rolls I did by hand didnt take too long


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## Barchettaman (Dec 16, 2007)

A couple of quick observations.

I just had time now to do half the Astra and 2 of the wheels with BH AB. Work, baby and toddler.... you get the picture.

1) There really is an optimal removal time - get to it late and it´s hard work to remove. I left it on the bonnet a wee bit long and it was much more difficult to remove than on the side panels.

2) I was amazed by how easy and effective it works as an alloy wheel sealant. The two I did look excellent. Wipe on, wipe off.

I liked the big applicator pad that came from BH.

Overall, much easier than AG SRP (x2) and EGP (x2). To my inexperienced eye the finish was comparable. Rest of the car and photos to follow!


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## bilt-hamber kid (Dec 4, 2007)

I have heard loads of great feedback about the protection it gives wheels. All bare and coated metal in fact. Glad you like it.










And yeah, the pad is quite tactile. I use Auto-balm and the pad to clean my brass fireguard and fender.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

excellent - I did my Dad's new Octavia estate at the weekend. A pretty big motor but got it all done, with 2 layers on the roof and bonnet and front wings where the water sits and it takes more abuse. Looked very glossy and had a few comments that it added a little % to the look of the very bright silver :thumb:

Car will be a good testbed for it, as it lives right on the coast, near a quarry and gets covered in dust and muck regularly.

We went out in it that afternoon into a Forestry Commission reserve along a load of fire roads, and the car came back almost orange from the dust covering, but a quick rinse with a mains pressure hose and it was spotless - A B certainly making it easy to clean 

Well impressed - always had good results on single stage classic cars but liking it more and more on modern daily driven cars as well


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## Bilt-Hamber Lab (Apr 11, 2008)

bilt-hamber kid said:


> And yeah, the pad is quite tactile. I use Auto-balm and the pad to clean my brass fireguard and fender.


Al, I've checked stock and wondered where that tub had gone.


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## bilt-hamber kid (Dec 4, 2007)

Listen. I needed something to stir into that coffee of yours, just to make it drinkable.


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

bilt-hamber kid said:


> Listen. I needed something to stir into that coffee of yours, just to make it drinkable.


HAHA.

Just bought a clay bar and some Balm from you guys, hope it lives up to the hype.


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## bilt-hamber kid (Dec 4, 2007)

So do I sidey, especially if you're going to tell us how it went. 

Look forward to reading the feedback. :thumb:


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## akhan48 (Nov 25, 2007)

There seems to be a few AutoBalm threads now, so in case anyone hasn't seen my pics yet, here is what you can achieve relatively easily!


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I used it just now on my dads Previa and Iam impressed even more neally nice gloss and shine and it was filling swirls.


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## Goju5 (May 22, 2008)

EDIT: found what I was looking for...DOH!

Cant wait to try this stuff


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## 1996a6v6 (Feb 8, 2008)

Wow, just seen this thread, very very impressive product, my only question is, where can I get some


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

1996a6v6 said:


> Wow, just seen this thread, very very impressive product, my only question is, where can I get some


direct from Bilt Hamber, Rubbish Boys, Pro-Detailing and Elite IIRC....all listed here as approved traders.

Worth getting the clay as well for sure, and the shampoo is also good. Their foam is the best I have used by a mile, if you have a foam lance


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Not forgetting Ultimate Finish too - sponsor of the Funnies section.


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## Ultimate (Feb 18, 2007)

anyone know how long the swirl filling lasts yet?


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Ultimate said:


> anyone know how long the swirl filling lasts yet?


As long as the balm is on - which will depend on weather exposure, how often washed, and what with, etc.


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

Clayed the roof and bonnet yesterday, then realised I only had about half an hour before going to my club meet so had to just quickly balm the full car. The beading is pretty good and it does seem to bring the colour out slightly. Worth getting if you ask me.

I'm thinking of putting a layer or 2 of collonite over the top, hopefully that might help it last a bit longer?


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## isherdholi (Sep 18, 2007)

Actually, no, from what I've heard, putting a wax over the top of the Autobalm will make it less durable than if you just leave it by itself. You could benefit from a second coat of Autobalm though.

I haven't used my Autobalm yet, but BH claim that Autobalm is more durable than any hard wax or resin based polish - so in real life, maybe it will be about as durable as Collinite, which is very durable.


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

isherdholi said:


> Actually, no, from what I've heard, putting a wax over the top of the Autobalm will make it less durable than if you just leave it by itself. You could benefit from a second coat of Autobalm though.
> 
> I haven't used my Autobalm yet, but BH claim that Autobalm is more durable than any hard wax or resin based polish - so in real life, maybe it will be about as durable as Collinite, which is very durable.


Yeah will do another coat of AB next weekend, although I'm confused how a layer of wax would deteriorate the balm though?


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

vsideboy said:


> Yeah will do another coat of AB next weekend, although I'm confused how a layer of wax would deteriorate the balm though?


wax contains solvents - and these will remove some/all of the layers of products underneath, depending on the solvents, strength and resistence of what is already on. Smell some 476 and you'll get a bit of an idea about how much solvent is in it


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

I see. Cheers buddy.


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## Glossmax (May 9, 2007)

Bigpikle said:


> wax contains solvents - and these will remove some/all of the layers of products underneath, depending on the solvents, strength and resistence of what is already on. Smell some 476 and you'll get a bit of an idea about how much solvent is in it


I do hope your not endorsing a new craze of wax sniffing Mr Pikle?
I can see it now, groups of hooded young detailers wandering the streets aimlessly looking for that elusive next sniff of carnauba.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Pug_101 said:


> I do hope your not endorsing a new craze of wax sniffing Mr Pikle?
> I can see it now, groups of hooded young detailers wandering the streets aimlessly looking for that elusive next sniff of carnauba.












its all about the nuba man....


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

Pug_101 said:


> groups of hooded young detailers wandering the streets aimlessly looking for that elusive next sniff of carnauba.


man I think thats been going on for a long time looking at some of the posts on this site haha!


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## RICH2508 (Jan 14, 2007)

Think I will get some for my Non Metallic Black Beetle paint is pretty good but should I remove the Jetseal/ Collinite thats on there already, and if so will DC Step #1 be enough to do it ??:detailer


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## Glossmax (May 9, 2007)

Autobalm will go on top of what you already have. Personally I would remove and go with straight Balm.
Megs step one will remove what you have.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

The balm will remove the Jetseal and Collinite! Dont make work for yourself.


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## Glossmax (May 9, 2007)

roscopervis said:


> The balm will remove the Jetseal and Collinite! Dont make work for yourself.


Hi mate, I am sure Bilt-Hamber have said this is fine over an existing wax and does not remove the wax. That's why I recommended a cleaner.
No doubt Al or Pete will be along to confirm one way or the other.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

roscopervis said:


> The balm will remove the Jetseal and Collinite! Dont make work for yourself.





Pug_101 said:


> Hi mate, I am sure Bilt-Hamber have said this is fine over an existing wax and does not remove the wax. That's why I recommended a cleaner.
> No doubt Al or Pete will be along to confirm one way or the other.


Suspicion as opposed to reality, since we know AB has chemical cleaning capability, as you'd see if used on single-stage paint.
Highly likely to remove some or all of any LSP on the paintwork.

You *might* be able to get away with 109 over AB, but as always, test a small area before steaming on ahead. I prefer the half bootlid/bonnet approach, so you can see side-by-side differences.


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## Ultimate (Feb 18, 2007)

so it could have durability of turtle wax or it could have durability of collinite?! anyone done any tests?


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## Glossmax (May 9, 2007)

PJS said:


> Suspicion as opposed to reality, since we know AB has chemical cleaning capability, as you'd see if used on single-stage paint.
> Highly likely to remove some or all of any LSP on the paintwork.
> 
> You *might* be able to get away with 109 over AB, but as always, test a small area before steaming on ahead. I prefer the half bootlid/bonnet approach, so you can see side-by-side differences.


Not really sure that post clears anything up!
This is the post I remember Bilt-Hamber posting:
Auto-Balm over wax

So again I say you can use it over wax, but personally I would remove what you've got and apply AB straight to the paintwork.
Nothing wrong with doing a 50/50 to see if it adds to the existing finish though.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Pug_101 said:


> Not really sure that post clears anything up!
> This is the post I remember Bilt-Hamber posting:
> Auto-Balm over wax
> 
> ...


Paul - this whole area confuses me somewhat for 2 reasons:

1. Al says its OK over another product?
2. I have seen it take paint off single stage cars - big time 
3. It does layer over itself as evidenced by my swirl hiding test..

so what the hell is really going on


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## Glossmax (May 9, 2007)

I agree with all those points.
It is an odd one 
One other question would be if it was put over a wax how would that effect it's durability?


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## Goju5 (May 22, 2008)

I have a single stage paint car and have got some coming....getting slightly scared now with all this paint-removing talk!! :O


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Nothing to worry over - any paint coming off is 'dead' paint - that is, it's oxidised and not really doing anything for the car's appearance.
With AB on it, you'll benefit from UV protection.


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## Bilt-Hamber Lab (Apr 11, 2008)

:thumb: Chemical cleaning of oxides from good paint is far removed from redissolution of a well-deposited wax film.


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

Bilt-Hamber Lab said:


> redissolution


eh? You can tell you're in the chemical business!:lol:


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## bilt-hamber kid (Dec 4, 2007)

Sideboy,

You wanna hear him when he's making a brew (just keep one eye out for a blue moon, and you'll know its that time). Its not enough to know that sugar gets stirred in, or that tea diffuses from the bag (cheap Aldi ones by the way, and strained through his socks). I have to endure a step be step breakdown of how the chemical and biophysical transformation takes place and what effect temperature has on yadda yadda yadda.. 

Bottom line: If I ever find out what redissolution means, I'll let you know. :thumb:


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

haha, sounds like you guys have a right good laugh at your place!


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## bilt-hamber kid (Dec 4, 2007)

VS,

If I wasn't laughing, I'd be crying mate. :driver:


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## KingEdward (Apr 18, 2008)

"i do not need more wax. i do not need more wax"


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

KingEdward said:


> "i do not need more wax. i do not need more wax"


You need to detail every day so you can use up all the old stuff then you will need more wax!! Then buy some more wax!
You need to detail every day so you can use up all the old stuff then you will need more wax!! Then buy some more wax!
You need to detail every day so you can use up all the old stuff then you will need more wax!! Then buy some more wax!

:detailer:


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## KingEdward (Apr 18, 2008)

vsideboy said:


> You need to detail every day so you can use up all the old stuff then you will need more wax!! Then buy some more wax!
> You need to detail every day so you can use up all the old stuff then you will need more wax!! Then buy some more wax!
> You need to detail every day so you can use up all the old stuff then you will need more wax!! Then buy some more wax!
> 
> :detailer:


:lol:


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

bilt-hamber kid said:


> Sideboy,
> 
> You wanna hear him when he's making a brew (just keep one eye out for a blue moon, and you'll know its that time). Its not enough to know that sugar gets stirred in, or that tea diffuses from the bag (cheap Aldi ones by the way, and strained through his socks). I have to endure a step be step breakdown of how the chemical and biophysical transformation takes place and what effect temperature has on yadda yadda yadda..
> 
> Bottom line: If I ever find out what redissolution means, I'll let you know. :thumb:




"Solvation, commonly called *dissolution*, is the process of attraction and association of molecules of a solvent with molecules or ions of a solute. As ions dissolve in a solvent they spread out and become surrounded by solvent molecules. The bigger the ion, the more solvent molecules are able to surround it and the more it becomes solvated."

From good old wikipedia.
And still none the bloody wiser! :lol:


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

AH, Solvation, of course now I understand!
If only he'd put it in lay-mans terms like that we'd all get it!


I wonder if its similar to this:-

As chocolate melts it spreads out and becomes surrounded by hundreds and thousands, the more chocolate there is the more hundreds and thousands can stick to it....


you can then use this to cover a nice bun or cake.. or even just dip your finger in it if you are really hungry and can't wait for the stupid buns!!


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Bigpikle said:


> Paul - this whole area confuses me somewhat for 2 reasons:
> 
> 1. Al says its OK over another product?
> 2. I have seen it take paint off single stage cars - big time
> ...


As imparted to me earlier;
"Oxidised paint is almost a granular product on the film surface that needs to be lifted and lubed to remove it, if trying to achive this without abrasive. Wax deposited on good oxide free paint is really quite resistant to being dissolved by these same 'solvents' Try dissolving carnauba in cold white spirit it just wont go - sort of a good example!"

It's all making more sense now.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

vsideboy said:


> AH, Solvation, of course now I understand!
> If only he'd put it in lay-mans terms like that we'd all get it!
> 
> I wonder if its similar to this:-
> ...


Sounds like the PERFECT analogy. Well thought of! :lol:


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

me and my stupid fat belly!!


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## Goju5 (May 22, 2008)

Hope I get mine before Sat, got a car show and no sign of it coming yet sigh!


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

PJS said:


> As imparted to me earlier;
> "Oxidised paint is almost a granular product on the film surface that needs to be lifted and lubed to remove it, if trying to achive this without abrasive. Wax deposited on good oxide free paint is really quite resistant to being dissolved by these same 'solvents' Try dissolving carnauba in cold white spirit it just wont go - sort of a good example!"
> 
> It's all making more sense now.


OK - kinda makes sense, but I'll stick to people not chemicals :lol:

I dont plan to layer AB over anything else, as i reckon its just great anyway, so not a big issue for me, but I know some just cant resist layering everything


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## Goju5 (May 22, 2008)

sorry if this has been asked, but would u use z8 over this? SOrry, even confusing myself now... lol 

thanks


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Some have and found no issues thus far - but it's only been a couple of weeks I think, and the weather's been good in the main, so a bit hard to gauge any longevity issues.


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## Goju5 (May 22, 2008)

Ok, got it today and used it, no question that it invigorates old paintwork but I am gonna reserve judgement for a few days. It was a serious pain to apply and remove, maybe its cos I have single stage soft paint and applied and removed by hand? 

Also, just a wee bit let down with how many swirls are left after so much effort  Maybe I am just unlucky 

I can only see me using this once a year to restore the red to a deep red.

Interesting product, but I would be too scared to use it more often than stated because of the amount of paint that came off!

Greg


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Gronygroovy said:


> Ok, got it today and used it, no question that it invigorates old paintwork but I am gonna reserve judgement for a few days. It was a serious pain to apply and remove, maybe its cos I have single stage soft paint and applied and removed by hand?
> 
> Also, just a wee bit let down with how many swirls are left after so much effort  Maybe I am just unlucky
> 
> ...


If it was a pain to use then you either used too much (you should barely be able to see any on the pad when you use it ), you didnt have the pad wet enough (it helps to be wet rather than damp) or you did too big an area and it dried.

It will only remove dead oxidised paint - no quality chemical cleaner for auto use will remove enough paint to give you an issue - abrasives are a totally different ball game though, but AB has no abrasives...


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## Goju5 (May 22, 2008)

Interesting point there Bigpikle m8, I swear I was using a tiny amount, and was literally putting it on in about 16" by 16" and instantly removing and buffing with MF cloth which it really really needed. Also, the pad was wet, not dripping but wet thru along with regular sprays with water from a spray bottle. 

Must read the small print again, re the "no abrasives" DOH! thanks for that, so it will ONLY remove the crappy paint, and NOT the good stuff yes?

thanks in advance,

Greg

EDIT: area covered at one time.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Gronygroovy said:


> Interesting point there Bigpikle m8, I swear I was using a tiny amount, and was literally putting it on in about 16" by 16" and instantly removing and buffing with MF cloth which it really really needed. Also, the pad was wet, not dripping but wet thru along with regular sprays with water from a spray bottle.
> 
> Must read the small print again, re the "no abrasives" DOH! thanks for that, so it will ONLY remove the crappy paint, and NOT the good stuff yes?
> 
> ...


strange you were finding it hard then? Its not like a super easy wax, but shouldnt be too hard IMHO....2nd coat glides on much easier if you want extra filling - just do it very lightly 

yep - will only remove the layer of crap stuff, or just a touch of the pigment, certainly nothing to worry about. You know how hard it is to actually remove a swirl mark by hand, even with an abrasive ....


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## Goju5 (May 22, 2008)

Again, much appreciated for the info Bigpikle. Will apply a few more coats trying diff methods, even trying even less if thats possible of the stuff  Knowing that it wont take loads of the good paint off makes me a bit braver with it again 

Greg


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

Gronygroovy said:


> Ok, got it today and used it, no question that it invigorates old paintwork but I am gonna reserve judgement for a few days. It was a serious pain to apply and remove, maybe its cos I have single stage soft paint and applied and removed by hand?
> 
> Also, just a wee bit let down with how many swirls are left after so much effort  Maybe I am just unlucky
> 
> ...


Funny you should say that mate, I used it on my 94 celica and it went on and came off really easily. Then last weekend I used it on my dads 51 freelander bonnet and it was ridiculous to get back off again!!! Its not a single stage paint either but it just didn't want to come off and I put it on exactly the same as with my celica!


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## Bilt-Hamber Lab (Apr 11, 2008)

vsideboy said:


> Funny you should say that mate, I used it on my 94 celica and it went on and came off really easily. Then last weekend I used it on my dads 51 freelander bonnet and it was ridiculous to get back off again!!! Its not a single stage paint either but it just didn't want to come off and I put it on exactly the same as with my celica!


It's amazing how paints even from one manufacturer vary in their durability - for example silver paints are a more resistant normally to paint stripper, - it's the aluminium pigment used. In the same way some paint will collect debris very quickly and turn the smooth finish quite rough, the use of clay will restore the physical smoothness and make the autobalm much much easier to use. We had a Freelander - it was great vehicle for clay testing as it constantly collected fallout.


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

Bilt-Hamber Lab said:


> It's amazing how paints even from one manufacturer vary in their durability - for example silver paints are a more resistant normally to paint stripper, - it's the aluminium pigment used. In the same way some paint will collect debris very quickly and turn the smooth finish quite rough, the use of clay will restore the physical smoothness and make the autobalm much much easier to use. We had a Freelander - it was great vehicle for clay testing as it constantly collected fallout.


The celica is black and the freelander is a dark blue colour.

We clayed and then put 2 coats of AB on his bonnet on friday, then I went round for tea last night and he said how he put some wax on the bonnet like I told him to. Doh that'll probably have taken the AB off then! I said you had to wax after claying, not after we did the AB. Oh well! Parents eh!


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## Goju5 (May 22, 2008)

Interestingly enough, Just did the Zafira and it went on and came off SO easily I was amazed, so I did a tiny bit of my red mazda again and had major issues getting it off!! 

SO for me at least it seems fantastic and easy on the new Zafira, but a nightmare on my single stage painted mazda 

Greg


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## Bilt-Hamber Lab (Apr 11, 2008)

Have you clayed the Mazda? If the problem persists the finish may have an "open" structure which is holding the product, if this is the case a light abrasive polish will work wonders before re-application.


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## Goju5 (May 22, 2008)

Yes m8, I Clayed it thoroughly before I attempted any sort of application of AB, and it was like it did NOT want to come off!! At all...ever lol! Dont get me wrong...fantastic stuff tho, just wish it would love my mazda as well haha!

I didnt try any SRP just before application as many have said that AB will just strip it off! However, it had been SRPd a week before.

Many thanks.

Greg


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## wingnut72 (Jan 6, 2008)

I had problems removing the AB from my new ST but the finish made it worth it.Could i use a damp microfibre or would that remove all the AB.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

wingnut72 said:


> I had problems removing the AB from my new ST but the finish made it worth it.Could i use a damp microfibre or would that remove all the AB.


or you could mist a little water on it and then buff off. I have done this when I put it on the first time and got it a bit thick, and also when I missed a bit and left it 2 hours before finding it - still came off OK though 

I always have a water mister hanging off my belt when using AB - makes the process a whole lot easier.


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## wingnut72 (Jan 6, 2008)

So you dont think buffing the AB with a damp MF or spray will remove the layer.


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## Glossmax (May 9, 2007)

wingnut72 said:


> So you dont think buffing the AB with a damp MF or spray will remove the layer.


No
It's what I do.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Pug_101 said:


> No
> It's what I do.


+1 its put on with a well dampened pad (just short of dripping wet is the instruction IIRC), so a tad more water wont hurt


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

I've applied Balm on a soaking wet bonnet as an experiment to see "what if" - worked just as well as when it was bone dry.


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## bilt-hamber kid (Dec 4, 2007)

*lol*

PJ,

Please. Tell me you didn't do that at 0045 hours. :doublesho


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

bilt-hamber kid said:


> PJ,
> 
> Please. Tell me you didn't do that at 0045 hours. :doublesho


YEP cos he's dedicated!!


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

bilt-hamber kid said:


> PJ,
> 
> Please. Tell me you didn't do that at 0045 hours. :doublesho





vsideboy said:


> YEP cos he's dedicated!!


Am I feck!

No Al, a few weeks back at about 18:25.
If I'd said "I've *just*" then you'd be quite right to have me certified and collected by the nice blokes with white clothes, holding my new white coat for me.


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## volvo244lad (Jun 4, 2008)

Hia, im new to the forum. 16yr old and own my grandads volvo 244 that I inherited after he died in 2002 (yes I would have been 11...)

heres the car just after I lovingly polished it with autobalm...




























Ive read this thread from beginning to end and have learnt a lot...

I must admit though, when I polish the car I usually forget to wet the mit, so its bloody hard work and my cloth ends up black! (I take it this is the 'dead' paint - similar to the yellow cloth shown on the RR thread linked on the 1st page of this thread)

After being so impressed with the autobalm, I have decided to take the plunge and order some autoclay and then re-polish the car with the autobalm.

At the price of autobalm, I cant afford to be giving the car a polish every time I wash it, but I will want to to remove all the water marks etc...

Is there any polish on the market that I could use in conjunction with the autobalm on a more regular basis that is cheaper and easier to use...I also want something like this to use at shows etc to remove dirt from the journey...

I was going to use the autobalm occasionally and use some autoglym at shows and after washing the car, but after reading about other polishes removing the 'autobalmed' surface, Im worried about doing this...

So is there a polish that I can use in conjunction with the autobalm or do I just have to cut the amount of autobalm I use...?

Also interesting to read that autobalm is an AIO - I was going to wax the car!

Steve


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

You're maybe using too much AB mate, I have done my whole car, my girlfriends bonnet and my dads bonnet and there is no sign on the AB that I have even used it?

Would give me an easy couple of years use from it if using it every week, thats not bad for £30ish


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## volvo244lad (Jun 4, 2008)

Sh!T! Im using wayyy too much then...i'll not bother telling you how far down a container I am....

Steve


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

All you need to do is dab the mitt onto the balm mate. When you take it off then you should hardly be able to see any on the mitt.

It must've been a nightmare to get off your car if you're putting alot on!


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## volvo244lad (Jun 4, 2008)

yep it is...its a bloominng nightmare. Owell we all make mistakes....

So u would recommend claying the car and then using autobalm properly as an everyday polish...? Including at shows etc

Steve


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

I wouldn't clay the car every week mate, probably only do that 3 or 4 times a year.

I don't see why you can't use AB every week or so though. Once you've taken the layer of dead paint off then its only going to be cleaning the old AB off so then you've just putting another layer back on again.


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## volvo244lad (Jun 4, 2008)

oh yeh I meant only clay it once every so often, thanks for the advice...


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

no probs mate, anything to oblige.

Have fun in your new car too.


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## volvo244lad (Jun 4, 2008)

Its not new 

Owned it since 2002 when I was 11...look back at original post.

Steve


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

yes I realise this mate, but as you're only 16 I'm guessing that you haven't been able to drive it alot. Thats what I meant, driving it to shows etc.


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## volvo244lad (Jun 4, 2008)

Ahhh yes well it hasnt been MOTd since my Grandad dies, but assuming my Dad doesnt change his mind, its getting an MOT in mid June and going to as many shows as I can talk my Dad into....

Of course, ive never driven it up and down the street getting used to the clutch etc...officer.

Steve


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## Jaygo (Apr 7, 2008)

You've made a good start with your granddad's car.
Picking up where he left off must be one if the nicer ways of getting into cars and detailing.



> Of course, ive never driven it up and down the street getting used to the clutch etc...officer.


I'm pleased you're not one of the thoughtless and inconsiderate idiots driving a vehicle without an MOT, Insurance or a Driving License, in the belief that it'll never happen to them, or more to the point, others who might be unlucky enough to get in the way.

Keep up the good start.

You've got lots to look forward to.

Good Luck


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## caprimanuk (Mar 6, 2006)

Great to see you here Steve .

As said before you have a fantastic Volvo there , almost as nice as mine LOL .



















Show the guys here your engine bay , guys you could eat your dinner off it its that clean ! !


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## Glossmax (May 9, 2007)

volvo244lad said:


> So u would recommend claying the car and then using autobalm properly as an everyday polish...? Including at shows etc
> 
> Steve


Autobalm lasts a long time at least 3 months. Washing it the car with there own shampoo Autowash does boost the balm a bit as well. The autobalm will layer so you can add more although 2 coat is all you need unlike many waxes. I am wondering if there is a suitable product for that little extra bling factor for shows and I wonder if Aquawax or Z8 would work as all 3 manufactures products seem to have very similar properties.


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## wingnut72 (Jan 6, 2008)

I use the aqua wax and had no problems.


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## volvo244lad (Jun 4, 2008)

Ok Mike, ill show them my engine bay....

drum roll please......



















Just ordered a new cam cover gasket aswell so I can take the cam cover off and machine polish it with a buffer to get it looking like chrome.

Also, since that first phot I have got new SS hoseclips on all hoses, and have started to clean all the yellow lacquer off between ther inlet manifold and the cam cover...

Steve


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## volvo244lad (Jun 4, 2008)

nobody like my engine bay then?


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## Glossmax (May 9, 2007)

I think we're all a bit stunned that such a little motor can pull a Volvo around 

i must say that is one really well kept engine bay and I am guessing it's not been restored so making it more impressive. With the extra bits you've done since it must be looking mint now, well done :thumb:
Now what bits are getting the Auto-Balm treatment?


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## volvo244lad (Jun 4, 2008)

Little motor?! Its a 2.1!

Thanks and no it hasnt been restored - just the cam cover has been polished my hand...soon to be machine polished (tomorrow I hink! )

The inner wings will be autobalmed eventually when I get round to removing the battery and washer bottles etc to gain access...

Heres a pic of the cam cover before I hand polsihed it...horrible peeling yellow lacquer!


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

looking good mate, keep up the good work... I want to see my face in that cover!


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## volvo244lad (Jun 4, 2008)

Dont worry you will....whats the best way to get a good shine?

I am skint atm so dont go saying to buy any other products lol. I have a buffer on a drill and some autoglym metal polish, various wet n dry, and t-c*t!

Steve


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

very nice looking Volvo - I inherited a rusted old Fiest 950cc :lol: Loved it to bits though as it got me on the road 

You need soooo little AB that you shouldnt see it on the pad really. I did that huge Rolls and pretty much just used what was inside the lid  I wouldnt do it all the time as it just doesnt need it, and it cant be good building up a huge layer on the paint. If it isnt being driven then I'd do it every 6-8 weeks perhaps at the most - much less if its garaged?

You'll want some Surfex HD as well - an awesome and cheap degreaser that will keep you engine bay spotless


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## volvo244lad (Jun 4, 2008)

Thanks for the kind comments. Yeh i knew i was using too much AB. Im too greedy thats the thing!

Im going to buy the kit from BH and 
autowash the car
clay it
autowash again
Ab
Ab again

This time ill do it right though....

Might get some surfex HD...just a bit skint atm lol

Steve


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

volvo244lad said:


> Thanks for the kind comments. Yeh i knew i was using too much AB. Im too greedy thats the thing!
> 
> Im going to buy the kit from BH and
> autowash the car
> ...


Surfex is about £5 for 1L and dilutes up to a 1% solution and still cleans, so your 1L can make up to 100L of solution at its weakest - thats £5 you cant afford NOT to spend when you own a car....


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## Russ and his BM (Jan 1, 2008)

It is excellent stuff that surfex...

Reading this, I think i might be over-applying AB too, by the sound of it.

I have done 2 cars and have had to work quite hard. Imagine the amount of butter that sometimes gets left on your knife after you've spread butter on toast (ie a small amount) That's how much I use to do a 2'x2' section, and really rub it in, then buff off after a minute or so.

From the sound of this, I need to put on an imperceptible layer, rather than my 'definately some there on the applicator' amount?

Pics from those in the know, of their applicator after having rubbed it in the tub of autobalm would really help for the rest of us to gauge how much to use...

Cheers, oh and nice engine bay mate, loving your work!

Russ


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

nope - too much IMHO. Imagine you dont have nearly enough on your pad and you're just right :lol:

I wet the applicator and lightly dab the surface of the AB - should barely be able to see anything on the pad at all. Then work it over. I sometimes wonder if its too thin and really just water being spread, then I know its the right amount  2 coats is your friend then to ensure 100% coverage....


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## Russ and his BM (Jan 1, 2008)

Got you!

Thanks mate, I have been using way too much, evidently.


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## Toscane (Apr 28, 2008)

Pug_101 said:


> Autobalm lasts a long time at least 3 months. Washing it the car with there own shampoo Autowash does boost the balm a bit as well. The autobalm will layer so you can add more although 2 coat is all you need unlike many waxes. I am wondering if there is a suitable product for that little extra bling factor for shows and I wonder if Aquawax or Z8 would work as all 3 manufactures products seem to have very similar properties.





wingnut72 said:


> I use the aqua wax and had no problems.


Are you guys talking about the AG Aqua Wax or Duragloss Aqua Wax?

Nice Volvo by the way brother.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

DG one


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## Toscane (Apr 28, 2008)

Thank you PJS.


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## volvo244lad (Jun 4, 2008)

Thanks for the compliment Toscane. Just finished my exams so theres gonna be a lot of improvements over the coming weeks...

As much as I love it to be clean the edges of the bonnet and the drivers door are covered in oily fingerprints lol. I havent bothered cleaning it off because it will only get mucky again and when all the work is done im going to autowash it, clay it, and double autobalm it...

Steve


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