# Apple or not ?



## chillly

Guys im looking to upgrade my pc. Its Family use but the kids have there own lap tops. So what do you recommend please? I hate lap tops so im looking at the new imac 21.5-inch: 2.9GHz. Help


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## efib

If you don't fancy games then go for it ! It's fast , beautiful and will last for years unlike the pc which crashes often. 
Also it's virus free ( recently kasperevsky announced that macs can be infected but I think it's a trick so they can sell more antivirus )
The latest iMac is a piece of art 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ric

They are not virus free, theres just a lot less viri around for Mac's but they do seem less vulnerable imo, but saying that i've not had a virus on Mac or PC ever.

I have a lot of Apple products, most recently i got an iMac and its just awesome, i got the 27" version which has some clout (yes not as powerfull as say a home grown PC) but certainty close.

It does everything and more, can boot camp for windows for games if you want too also.

The design speaks for its self.


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## bigmc

They are not virus free, the reason they get less is PCs are used more widely so viruses are targeted towards them.
I'd never buy one purely because the VFM is none existent, for the price of a imac you can build a ***** of a PC.


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## Beancounter

I think when it comes to questions about pretty much any Apple product, you can split the replies into two main groups.

1. The Apple Haters 
2. The thinking Man 

Made the change and bought a Macbook about 4 years ago, best thing I did. Now looking to get an iMac soon :thumb:


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## SteveyG

Beancounter said:


> I think when it comes to questions about pretty much any Apple product, you can split the replies into two main groups.
> 
> 1. The Apple Haters
> 2. The thinking Man
> 
> Made the change and bought a Macbook about 4 years ago, best thing I did. Now looking to get an iMac soon :thumb:


Surely the thinking man would build a stonking PC and run Mint or Unbuntu, and then blow the change on a hooker.


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## Beancounter

:lol:
Not the thinking man that has no interest in building up a PC 

....and really.....hookers....:tumbleweed:


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## DJ X-Ray

Go for it get a mac


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## simonjj

Go for the Mac chilly :thumb:


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## Alex_225

I recently converted from a Windows PC to an iMac and it's one of the best things I've ever bought, not cheap but every time I sit there using it, it's a pleasure. 

I wouldn't ever slate Windows or someone who chooses to use it, same as I don't get those Apple haters. 

But I would say the transition from 20 years of Windows use and 10 years of supporting it at work to the Apple OS has been painless. Yeah I've done a bit of reading up, played about with it but it's now seamless and I'm still learning. 

They just work and are a joy to use. I'd recommend one.


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## stangalang

apple


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## jjbennett

I'd build a pc, much less money than the iMac and will be a lot more powerful. I'm also an apple lover but a pc to your own spec would beat it for me.


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## Russ and his BM

I type this on the iMac I bought in 2007. It has never gone wrong, and is as fast now as when I first took it out of the box.

We now also own:
A macbook
An ipad
2 x iphones

and it all works really well together.

But, we're locked in to the Apple way, so if we ever want to get out of this loop, we have to spend megabucks. Then again, why would we want to do that?

Well, at some point, the hardware becomes so old that the software cannot be loaded onto it. I'll bet Mountain Lion will be my last software upgrade on the iMac, but you know, that doesn't really bother me because the machine does all I need it to.

I like Macs, and found the transition easy and I haven't looked back. Ultimately, you need to decide what it needs to do, ie what you require of your new machine, and then look at what will fit the bill the best way.

It could be a smart TV and an ipad is the best solution, but I don't know the ins and outs of what capabilities you need...


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## A210 AMG

The iMacs and the new ones (even slimmer) look awesome.

The only computer you would happily have in your lounge with a wireless mouse and keyboard (bluetooth)

Funny as we now have 2 iPhones, 1 ipad and a mac book pro, but as yet I'm using a PC laptop....


Love the quality though of apple products.


I bought 300 iMacs 5 years ago and recently we updated the site, we got £200 back for each one 5 years later !!! also we have had about 5 machines over 5 years which have had very tiny faults.


My next laptop will probably be a Mac.



Just me aware they are not 100% compatible with a PC, wife has a MacPro and sends me stuff to print... both have office but it DOES format differently... not a biggy but it does.


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## Alzak

PC all the way for me bulid up to my spec and easily upgradable ...


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## Derekh929

I have the 21.5" iMac for two year great for looks ultra quiet and stable. I love Apple gear I have ipad 2 ipad 4 iPhone 4 and iPhone very , but imac can be annoying key board operation system and compatibility are very annoying IMHO , would I get another not sure as could put good photo edit system and other gear to do good job on PC


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## Alex_225

A210 AMG said:


> The iMacs and the new ones (even slimmer) look awesome.
> 
> The only computer you would happily have in your lounge with a wireless mouse and keyboard (bluetooth).


That is very true and can't be said of most PCs with all the wires and stuff all over the place.

They are genuinely nice looking pieces of kit and feel brilliantly made. I know that's not the most important thing when using it but it's nice to have something that looks as good as it works.

Just a shame they've ditched the optical drive in the new iMac for the sake of it being slimmer. A lost of people don't see the need for a DVD player in machine but all I've done since I got mine is feed it CDs to put into iTunes and DVDs ripped through Handbrake!


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## SteveyG

Alex_225 said:


> That is very true and can't be said of most PCs with all the wires and stuff all over the place.


Huh? Why would there be less wires?


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## Rob_Quads

SteveyG said:


> Huh? Why would there be less wires?


Because 'most' PCs that you order will have the base separate to the monitor (cables) come with wired keyboards (cables) and wired mouse (cables)

Obviously you can get some All in 1 PCs but these are few and far and often still come with a wired keyboard and mouse so I think his statement is a fair one to say that 'most' PCs have lots of wired connections


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## Beancounter

Also, even a wireless pc mouse/keyboard usually comes with some sort of cable to a receiver unit.


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## bigmc

SteveyG said:


> Huh? Why would there be less wires?


There wouldn't really, I've got my PC in the lounge hooked up to the TV, you can't see a single wire or the pc itself. Wireless keyboard with a touchpad and job done, plenty more powerful than a mac too.


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## SteveyG

Rob_Quads said:


> Because 'most' PCs that you order will have the base separate to the monitor (cables) come with wired keyboards (cables) and wired mouse (cables)
> 
> Obviously you can get some All in 1 PCs but these are few and far and often still come with a wired keyboard and mouse so I think his statement is a fair one to say that 'most' PCs have lost of wired connections


There's more pre-built AIO PCs than there are varieties of iMacs, so why even make the comparison... Plus one display port cable and a mains cable is hardly 'wires and stuff all over the place'



Beancounter said:


> Also, even a wireless pc mouse/keyboard usually comes with some sort of cable to a receiver unit.


No they don't. Are you still living in 2002?


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## eatcustard

Why not to buy a PC:
Windows 8 (its rubbish)
Fat ugly people own PCs*
High chance of a Virus

Why buy a Mac:
Its with be worth more, in fact a lot more on resale
OS is far better
Very low chance of a virus



* I may be wrong, but who cares


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## silverback

one very good reason not to buy an apple is you will turn into a mac **** in no time.banging on about the virtues of never getting a virus (which isnt true) telling anyone who will listen that you love apple experience and lastly you will be able to pop into the genius bar and be greeted by some smarmy **** who actually thins hes a genius.add to that you have to defend over priced bang for buck hardware and look like a complete **** when you have to leap to the defence of apple in any way shape or form.

no no,apple may look flash,but performance to price ratio apple are a joke imho.


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## TelTel

Like the most percentage of people i have used PC. In the past 6-7 years i have used APPLE MAC simply because 

1. I am surrounded by them day in day out
2. I just think they are a great allround piece of kit. 
3. I completely trust them

Wether you do websites, documentations, presentations, photography, editing etc Mac just seem to be up there when it comes to choosing & using for whatever your needs. They very rarely get infected with virus's because Most percentage of the population (this may have reduced over the past few years) are PC users. PC do sell good specification Desktop PC's/laptops at good prices which is a selling magnet, also PC Manufacturers i.e Dell, Packard Bell, HP etc have gained massive worldwide interest from leading Antivirus companies inorder to persuade customers to spend that bit extra to have their PC absolutely safe and bug free which has in most cases has been proven wrong. My Ol man has had two £600 laptops in 4-5 years and run absolutely slow with good internet speeds with barely any hardrive space taken up................. with antivirus protection!!!! its painful to work on, but hey it could be a different reason for its slow perfomance. On the Plus side of PC, they are great computers aswell and shouldnt be underestimated as also alot of PC's are used for graphics, editing etc. Its a case of researching to what is the best out there at the moment. Apple are expensive but if you have the moenty then the money is well worth spent.

what i do know tho is so many people that have gone Mac and never looked back at a PC..............my advice is to spend half hour in an apple store and see what you think. Everyone is different and its my personal experience with PC's that have bought me to commit with APPLE. 

Goodluck!!


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## umi000

I'd use the money that the iMac would cost to build my own PC, then spend what's left over on a nice wax or a treat for the family, but if you're not inclined that way, I can see where the Apple device would have its appeal.

Oh, and it's been said by others on this thread, but that thing about no viruses for Macs is a load of rubbish  - and if you've got an ounce of common sense, you won't get any viruses on a Windows PC either (never gotten one in the 20-odd years I've used a computer).


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## JenJen

My whole family is mac. When I got myself a MacBook and a iMac I loved it so much I got the same set up for my mum who always managed to break her windows laptop and also my grandmother. 

Never had one problem with the iMacs but I did have a problem with one of the MacBooks but I think that was down to my ex trashing te hard drive but it got replaced under warranty. 

That's one thing you can't deny the after service care for mac is second to none!


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## Alex_225

silverback said:


> one very good reason not to buy an apple is you will turn into a mac **** in no time.


Calm down dude, it's only a discussion on computers!! :lol:

If someone asks, I will gladly tell them the truth of my personal experience with my iMac. I won't, like many Apple fans, sl*g off Windows as I still use it frequently but for my own personal choice the Apple route has suited me brilliantly.

Strange thing is since getting into Apple products, I've found as many people that hate Apple for the sake of it than people that have practically vanished up Steve Jobs ar$e!!

I intend on staying somewhere in between.......not literally! :thumb:


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## Serkie

If you can afford it, do it.

As my dad says, 'Buy cheap, you'll end up buying twice...'


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## Rob_Quads

silverback said:


> one very good reason not to buy an apple is you will turn into a mac **** in no time.banging on about the virtues of never getting a virus (which isnt true) telling anyone who will listen that you love apple experience and lastly you will be able to pop into the genius bar and be greeted by some smarmy **** who actually thins hes a genius.add to that you have to defend over priced bang for buck hardware and look like a complete **** when you have to leap to the defence of apple in any way shape or form.
> 
> no no,apple may look flash,but performance to price ratio apple are a joke imho.


Lol. So someone buys a product, finds it really easy to use and then tells people and you moan.:lol: Do you moan about people saying how easy a wax is to apply?

Apple have never been about selling performance. Thats the whole point it is the whole package you buying into. You moan about the genius bar but it enabled me to walk out 24h after a power supply failed with a new placement. No hastle, no problems. When the same happened on my wifes PC I had to send off the faulty one and a week later got a replacement. Thats what people are paying for.

People will spend money on a good looking car? a good looking TV, coffee table etc but a computer -Oh no your not allowed to spend money on a slick looking computer its all about function....but its not.


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## Ric

silverback said:


> and look like a complete **** when you have to leap to the defence of apple in any way shape or form.


Just like the people who hate mac for some reason and go out of their way to call everybody else twats just because they dont like something...



silverback said:


> no no,apple may look flash,but performance to price ratio apple are a joke imho.


Like a lot of waxes on here, nice glass container but contain something a lower priced item can provide..

Whats your point? people do it every day on here are they ****'s too?

Take your double standards elsewhere other than apple threads, it's boring now.


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## JenJen

Oh dear boys draw a line and move over it. Stop bricking!


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## SteveyG

Rob_Quads said:


> Apple have never been about selling performance. Thats the whole point it is the whole package you buying into. You moan about the genius bar but it enabled me to walk out 24h after a power supply failed with a new placement. No hastle, no problems. When the same happened on my wifes PC I had to send off the faulty one and a week later got a replacement. Thats what people are paying for.


To be fair though, you get the same service with Dell, or anywhere that has a decent warranty. I complained that the battery in my Alienware said it could only hold 75% of it's charge after 12 months, and before 9am the next day I had a new battery at my doorstep no questions asked.

Having a look now the HP Z1 looks pretty tasty... Intel Xeon yes please!


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## Kerr

Serkie said:


> If you can afford it, do it.
> 
> As my dad says, 'Buy cheap, you'll end up buying twice...'


If the OP has the budget to buy an iMac then obviously he won't exactly be looking at low end budget PCs as an alternative.

Just because everything Apple is so expensive, it doesn't automatically make it better.

Their stuff is nice, their image is sky high with many and their customer service is good too, but you are paying for it. All the money isn't going into the product.

There is loads of good PC brands out there and loads of good companies willing to build a great system with the spec miles beyond what Apple will charge for the money.

Looking at the spec of the iMac the OP has posted(or I think the one he means £1249?) you could be looking at quite a serious gaming PC for that kind of cash.

You could also be looking at solid state drives which are great.

I think you really need to want an iMac to swallow the cost. Coolness costs.


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## A210 AMG

^ We would all drive a Skoda if we all thought like that.

Does eveything you need probably as well or better than a lot of other makes.....

If your not into high end games on a PC and after a lovely looking machine very well made, then the new iMacs are superb.

If you know a student... buy though education and the new 21.5" 2.9 is £1099.20 inc vat / deleivery and 3 year apple care.

We bought 300 iMacs 5 yrs ago and recently sold them for £200 each. So in actual loss over 5 year these units cost around £650 thats pretty good !! try selling a £800 PC after 5 yrs


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## SteveyG

A210 AMG said:


> If your not into high end games on a PC and after a lovely looking machine very well made, then the new iMacs are superb.


Have you had a look at the AIO PCs from other manufacturers - All of them in the same price range look great and are solidly built. Or you can buy 1/3 of the price and get a more basic machine.

A lot of the arguments being put forward in this thread are pretty much unfounded. Sure if you want an Apple product to fit in with your current equipment, then go for an iMac, but the crap about build quality, service, lack of wires etc are all invalid.


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## DW58

Go for an iMac, you wont regret it. I changed over to Mac last year having used every version of Windows since Windows 2 - I only wish I'd made the change-over a decade ago when I originally thought of it. Windows PCs are OK, but in my opinion they simply don't work as well and unless you're a keen gamer you'll get on well with a Mac 

I see the usual suspects have turned up to insult Mac users and tell us all how bad they are despite never actually coming up with a viable argument, luckily they're outnumbered on this thread by the satisfied Mac users of which I am one.


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## bigmc

DW58 said:


> Go for an iMac, you wont regret it. I changed over to Mac last year having used every version of Windows since Windows 2 - I only wish I'd made the change-over a decade ago when I originally thought of it. Windows PCs are OK, but in my opinion they simply don't work as well and unless you're a keen gamer you'll get on well with a Mac
> 
> I see the usual suspects have turned up to insult Mac users and tell us all how bad they are despite never actually coming up with a viable argument, luckily they're outnumbered on this thread by the satisfied Mac users of which I am one.


Can you come up with a viable argument why the equivalent pc is 1/3 of the price of an apple?


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## Kerr

DW58 said:


> Go for an iMac, you wont regret it. I changed over to Mac last year having used every version of Windows since Windows 2 - I only wish I'd made the change-over a decade ago when I originally thought of it. Windows PCs are OK, but in my opinion they simply don't work as well and unless you're a keen gamer you'll get on well with a Mac
> 
> I see the usual suspects have turned up to insult Mac users and tell us all how bad they are despite never actually coming up with a viable argument, luckily they're outnumbered on this thread by the satisfied Mac users of which I am one.


There is two sides to every story as they say.

As SteveyG pointed out above, the most frustrating thing about an Apple v anything else debate is Apple customers seem to think that all other products are from the dark ages.

They do make comparisons to how things were on the other side a long long time ago.

I don't think about the old Macs at school with a 7" monochrome screen and a 5.25" floppy drive and compare it to the latest spec PC

There isn't any argument that Apple make great products.

There isn't any argument that there is loads of great PCs out there to match and usually with sizeable discounts or vastly better spec.

Yes A210 AMG makes a fair point that when you sell an Apple product second hand it will be worth more money. Again it is like buying a car. I wouldn't buy a car based on what the thing is worth in 5 years unless the depreciation was really bad.

It is all about buying the best equipment to suit yourself to enjoy for a long period.

We would all be driving Audi Q5s with that logic as they hold most value. I'd rather have my BMW 335i, have more fun and car over my ownership than worry about in 5 years time.


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## PugIain

The only thing that puts me off buying an Apple Mac is not the fact that they seem to turn you into an insufferable, argumentative gimp, with an issue of people "hating" them 
It's.....

Price. 
I cannot fathom why, when compared to a decent Windows PC a Mac works out more.
In most cases, a lot more. I've just never sat in front of my Windows PC and thought
"If only I'd bought an Apple Mac"


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## A210 AMG

I think this Apple divide is always going to happen, look at the iPhone V any other phone and the 'debates' that starts...


I buy Macs in the 100's for work and think they look superb, far nicer than any of the PC's I buy...

I agree you pay MORE generally for the same spec, More and more PC's coming out are copying the all in one Mac style we have had several on test at work, HP, sony, ergo, getech, Viglen, Dell. At the end of the day the mac does look the nicest.

Saying this I still use a PC laptop and PC desktop so I've not converted yet, the only Mac product I own is a iphone


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## Serkie

bigmc said:


> Can you come up with a viable argument why the equivalent pc is 1/3 of the price of an apple?


Plenty of articles out there about the differentials, for example...:
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/macs/macs-more-expensive.htm


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## bigmc

Serkie said:


> Plenty of articles out there about the differentials, for example...:
> http://computer.howstuffworks.com/macs/macs-more-expensive.htm


The link does nothing to justify the price difference, I don't want the software that comes on a mac or pc, most pc the stuff I use is freeware. Bottom line is my 4 year old PC is still more powerful than the most powerful mac (it's still more powerful than all but the most powerful mac pro which is £3100), still hasn't had a virus and still runs a fast as ever, oh and it cost £650 not £1700


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## Ric

a 4 year old processor has more processing power than a 2012 Ivy bridge i7?

Do tell...


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## bigmc

carbonangel said:


> a 4 year old processor has more processing power than a 2012 Ivy bridge i7?
> 
> Do tell...


amd phenom ii x4 965 black edition 4ghz, mac pro and mac server are lesser processors according to http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro


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## DW58

bigmc said:


> The link does nothing to justify the price difference, I don't want the software that comes on a mac or pc, most pc the stuff I use is freeware. Bottom line is my 4 year old PC is still more powerful than the most powerful mac (it's still more powerful than all but the most powerful mac pro which is £3100), still hasn't had a virus and still runs a fast as ever, oh and it cost £650 not £1700


No-one's asking you to buy a Mac, I think we all know by now that you have a bit of a Mac-phobia. I'm 54 years old, I've used Windows PCs for around 25 years and to be honest I've been there, done that and bought the friggin t-shirt. My Mac does everything I ask of it, something Windows PCs never did with any degree of reliability, and whether you like it or not I'm happy. In my case it hasn't got anything to do with looks, it's all about build quality and reliability. Before you start banging the same old drum I've owned PCs by Dell, Sony, Toshiba, HP and Samsung along with several Custom builds and none even came close to the level of satisfaction I get from my Mac. Yes the Mac was a lot more expensive than any of the PCs I've owned but so what, I didn't ask you to pay for it.

If the OP fancies an iMac, IMO he should go for it.


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## bigmc

DW58 said:


> No-one's asking you to buy a Mac, I think we all know by now that you have a bit of a Mac-phobia. I'm 54 years old, I've used Windows PCs for around 25 years and to be honest I've been there, done that and bought the friggin t-shirt. My Mac does everything I ask of it, something Windows PCs never did with any degree of reliability, and whether you like it or not I'm happy. In my case it hasn't got anything to do with looks, it's all about build quality and reliability. Before you start banging the same old drum I've owned PCs by Dell, Sony, Toshiba, HP and Samsung along with several Custom builds and none even came close to the level of satisfaction I get from my Mac. Yes the Mac was a lot more expensive than any of the PCs I've owned but so what, I didn't ask you to pay for it.
> 
> If the OP fancies an iMac, IMO he should go for it.


I don't have mac phobia at all I just can't see the point in spending so much money when I can get something more reliable, faster, easier to change and update if needs be and will run any game I wish to play on it for a third of the price. Your pc history makes you look like the problem not the computer, I've had 4 computers in the last 12 years and all have been custom built and not needed touching for the lifespan.


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## Ric

bigmc said:


> amd phenom ii x4 965 black edition 4ghz, mac pro and mac server are lesser processors according to http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro


I can't find a direct comparison but your processor is roughly half of the power to the CPU's in 2012 mac's

Intel Core i7-3770 @ 3.40GHz 9,452

AMD Phenom II X4 965	4,343

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

AMD have always been the same, high figures poor performance, a bit like old american V8's

Apple is all about the user experience.. always has, from the shop to the warranty, they are powerfull enough.


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## DW58

bigmc said:


> I don't have mac phobia at all I just can't see the point in spending so much money when I can get something more reliable, faster, easier to change and update if needs be and will run any game I wish to play on it for a third of the price. Your pc history makes you look like the problem not the computer, I've had 4 computers in the last 12 years and all have been custom built and not needed touching for the lifespan.


Has it never ocurred to you that not everyone plays games? All I can say is you've either been exceptionally lucky or easily pleased. No Windows installation will run for four years problem-free, especially if used intensively.

Why would I be the problem, I used to be a PC trainer, troubleshooter and software developer amongst other things for a major government department. Some of my many PCs were owned/personally funded, some were supplied - I don't believe there is such a thing as a trouble-free Windows PC, however I'm not claiming the same about Macs either. Other than your obvious prejudices, have you actually got any Mac experience? You keep banging on about cost, but that's not really an issue is it?

Most of us on the this thread offered honest answers to the OP's question, why can't you do the same rather than doing as you always do on almost every Mac-related thread?


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## A210 AMG

^ The other agument we have with the techs at work is about gaming PC's v's Xbox or Play station etc...


I few 'techs' build their on water coolled PC's with all manor or spec with £300 graphic cards, solid state OS drives, etc etc...

We have a go saying are the graphics etc actually better than putting the disc in a £150 xbox and press play... the PC will probably blue screen at some point anyway 


That's always a fun debate also


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## bigmc

I have got a little experience with them, my mother in law has a macbook pro - I've used it enough to not be bothered about "the user experience" over my laptop. 
I have answered the OPs question too, buy a stupidly powerful pc.


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## DW58

bigmc said:


> I have got a little experience with them, my mother in law has a macbook pro - I've used it enough to not be bothered about "the user experience" over my laptop.


The emphasis being on "little" :lol:












bigmc said:


> I have answered the OPs question too, buy a stupidly powerful pc.


Why - unless you're an obsessive gamer why does it have to be stupidly powerful? Yours might have been the day you took delivery, but it doesn't sound like it is any more despite your claims


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## bigmc

Little experience is enough, the way the fanbois like yourself bleat on about the user experience made it a massive disappointment if I'm honest.
My PC still runs crysis2 in full effect, not many will do that off the shelf now.


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## A210 AMG

I would not think that most of the people in PC world / john lewis / other PC shop actually know what spec they are buying? or in fact really care that much....

i3, i5, i7, solid state, 4GB RAM, 8GB RAM, DVD, Dual core, AMD, HD, DVI, bluetooth etc etc etc...


I would think a LOT of people buy on impuse what looks nice, feels good. Not on the spec and not for playing games. 

Lets be honest most of us, for surfing, the odd letter, and cut and edit a basic photogragh an early core 2 computer would be more than suitable. So we buy far more powerful machines than are actually required.

I think if the OP wants a Mac go for it


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## Rob_Quads

bigmc said:


> Can you come up with a viable argument why the equivalent pc is 1/3 of the price of an apple?


Can you show me a ultra portable PC with the spec of a Macbook Air for 1/3 of the price? At the moment they are struggling to produce something on a par price wise let alone 1/3 of it. The Samsung 9 is about as close as you can get but its fractionally cheaper but using older generation chips etc.

Can you show me a AIO with the same specs, support and build quality at the current line of iMacs (including the high quality screens) for 1/3 price?

Also resale value also counters the high entry cost i.e. you can still get £400+ for a 2007 iMac, £600+ for a 2009 iMac. That generally a lot more than you would get for a comparable 3/5 year old PC


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## Kerr

DW58 said:


> No-one's asking you to buy a Mac, I think we all know by now that you have a bit of a Mac-phobia. I'm 54 years old, I've used Windows PCs for around 25 years and to be honest I've been there, done that and bought the friggin t-shirt. My Mac does everything I ask of it, something Windows PCs never did with any degree of reliability, and whether you like it or not I'm happy. In my case it hasn't got anything to do with looks, it's all about build quality and reliability. Before you start banging the same old drum I've owned PCs by Dell, Sony, Toshiba, HP and Samsung along with several Custom builds and none even came close to the level of satisfaction I get from my Mac. Yes the Mac was a lot more expensive than any of the PCs I've owned but so what, I didn't ask you to pay for it.
> 
> If the OP fancies an iMac, IMO he should go for it.


What didn't windows do out of curiosity?


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## DW58

Kerr said:


> What didn't windows do out of curiosity?


Work reliably - believe me I gave it plenty chance.

BTW I'm not an Apple fanboy, just a satisfied user. After two and a half decades of inferior products, I've finally got an integrated system which works as advertised.


MacBook Pro
iPad
iPhone
Thunderbolt display
Magic trackpad
Bluetooth keyboard
Apple compatible hardware from Western Digital, LaCie and Logitech
All work as advertise on the tin as they are, and all work as an integrated system, that's all I ask of them and they deliver. What's more they'll probably continue to deliver for years to come. It was my money, I chose how and where I spent it because Microsoft and the hardware manufacturers didn't/couldn't deliver in my opinion, which for my own use is all that matters.


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## kh904

IMO, Apple products look great in terms of design and work well as an 'integrated' environment/system, but it can also be it's biggest drawback. 
I don't like being dictated on what i can/can't do, ability to upgrade hardware etc etc.

I don't buy the argument of build quality/reliability of PC's, as my £350 e-machine from PC world i bought 9 yeas ago is still going strong (it's my main pc)!
All i've spent on it is some extra RAM, external hard drive & a DVD-rewriter.

Both Mac's/PC's have their pro's & con's so it just depends on a day-to-day use you require & if you can justify the cost.


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## DW58

kh904 said:


> Both Mac's/PC's have their pro's & con's so it just depends on a day-to-day use you require & if you can justify the cost.


Exactly - it goes both ways, so why all the venom from certain quarters.

There's plenty of room for Apple and PC enthusiasts, but there's no room for claims which can't be substantiated.

You're never going to please everyone, if we all liked the same things the world would be very boring.

If bigmc is happy with his obviously perfect four-year-old PC then good for him as long as he doesn't try too many bang-up-to-date games. I'm happy with my Mac paid for with my money at a price I was happy with.

I guess we'll hear the same old story soon enough next time a DW member asks a Mac-related question however


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## Kerr

DW58 said:


> Work reliably - believe me I gave it plenty chance.


When 100s of millions of people have it working reliably, you might have to question yourself.

Millions of people manage without a single issue and let's not pretend Apple products are 100% reliable either.

You still haven't answered what it can't do reliably with any degree of reliability.

I'm still sitting here on my 6 year old Q6600 based self built PC scratching my head.


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## DW58

Gimme a break - you know as well as I do that Windows has a poor reliability record. It's all very well when you look after your own PC, doing regular housekeeping and defrags etc., but most don't.



Kerr said:


> I'm still sitting here on my 6 year old Q6600 based self built PC scratching my head.


BTW, are you sure sitting on your PC is a good idea, is the heat good for your haemorrhoids?

What about all of the well publicised problems with Windows 95/98/Me/Vista - a figment of my imagination and XP took until SP2 to be properly reliable. Yes, Windows 7 is significantly more reliable and even moreso since SP1 was released, but who actually likes Windows 8, IMO it's a backward step, it's horrible.

I never claimed Macs were 100% reliable, just substantially more so than Windows-based machines.


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## HeavenlyDetail

chillly said:


> Guys im looking to upgrade my pc. Its Family use but the kids have there own lap tops. So what do you recommend please? I hate lap tops so im looking at the new imac 21.5-inch: 2.9GHz. Help


If you own a business and want a new iMac pm me but you may have a little wait more than anticipated as there are some very small delays.


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## Hotchy

I play games so on that basis its always going to be pc.. well untill apple up there "game" see what i done there?

i have had viruses on my pc though.. bugs ate my screen then it blue screened, one that stopped all use on internet and access to program files etc, a coupke others. Macs look very cool i agree, but pc's can do almost anything. You can even load a mac os onto a pc turning it into a mac.


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## SteveyG

Kerr said:


> When 100s of millions of people have it working reliably, you might have to question yourself.
> 
> Millions of people manage without a single issue and let's not pretend Apple products are 100% reliable either.
> 
> You still haven't answered what it can't do reliably with any degree of reliability.
> 
> I'm still sitting here on my 6 year old Q6600 based self built PC scratching my head.


I cannot remember the last time Windows crashed or anything like that. I had a 6 year old Celeron Laptop that still worked on it's first XP installation!

The crowd that only need a bit of web surfing and e-mailing etc. would also be fine with a tablet.


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## chillly

A really Big thankyou to all you guys for getting involved in this for me:thumb:

Decided to go with a Mac so thanks again guys for all your help :thumb:


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## LeadFarmer

Good choice:thumb:

I attended an iMovie workshop in my local store and Im currently editing some camcorder footage of my trip to Disneyland. The iMovie software is fantastic. I strongly recommend attending their free workshops if you live near an Apple store, Ive done quite a few of them now on various topics - Mountain Lion, iPhoto, Pages etc and they are a great source of learning.


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## gregb

iMac for Chimbo, can't wait :thumb:
Pc will demoted to the workshop.
will be getting trackpad, 2tb time machine and a SuperDrive.
I'll also download ms office cheap from work.

Anything recommended for above setup ?

Ps I'm not a apple fanboy but I'm getting there :lol::lol:


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## DW58

Greg - I think you've got it pretty well covered, software depends very much on what you intend using it for, but Mac have the basics of most things covered, e.g. iPhoto, iMovie etc., MS Office for Mac is excellent.


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## willwander

Good choice, you won't be disappointed.
I'm a windows software developer and use a laptop/pc for up to 10 hours a day, I still run a mac, as do most of the lads I work with.
I compare macs to 'snap-on' tools, yeah they are expensive, but if you use them everyday they have a certain something, a 'quality' that makes everything else feel cheap and nasty.

Software wise you won't need much, Parallels can be useful as it will allow you to run a full version of Microsoft windows, inside a window on your mac, then you have the best of both worlds.


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## willwander

..or you could use Oracle Virtual box, same as Parrallels but Free! and still good, just not quite as user friendly.


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## Guitarjon

I always find the mac haters have never had any real experience of a mac in the last 10 years or so. Pcs have these big specs and a mac may look like it has a lesser spec but the build quality and component quality is much more carefully thought about and everything just works. It works so well it very rarely goes wrong, unlike its windows counterpart. I was once explained to that it's like buying a suit. You can buy a cheap suit that does the job from Asda or matalan or you could go to a Taylor's and buy a suit. Both fit but the Taylored suit fits everywhere and the arms are the length you need. This is the case with macs and windows pcs in my opinion. Btw I'm not slating suits from Asda or matalan...

I myself have had windows pcs for years but one thought I'd try a mac as one came up pretty cheap and I needed a new laptop. 7 years later. Still have said laptop and it runs as good as the day I got it. I was worried initially so dual booted it with windows. Never needed to use it...

With regards to word and compatibility, have you got the latest version on your mac and not on your pc? I found the later versions of word give you the option of how you want it to be saved? 

Enjoy your mac. I couldn't seem to have a windows laptop more than 4 years with daily regular use as I said my lower spec mac is still going strong. I would like a new one but I don't need one.


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## Kerr

Guitarjon said:


> I always find the mac haters have never had any real experience of a mac in the last 10 years or so. Pcs have these big specs and a mac may look like it has a lesser spec but the build quality and component quality is much more carefully thought about and everything just works. It works so well it very rarely goes wrong, unlike its windows counterpart. I was once explained to that it's like buying a suit. You can buy a cheap suit that does the job from Asda or matalan or you could go to a Taylor's and buy a suit. Both fit but the Taylored suit fits everywhere and the arms are the length you need. This is the case with macs and windows pcs in my opinion. Btw I'm not slating suits from Asda or matalan...
> 
> I myself have had windows pcs for years but one thought I'd try a mac as one came up pretty cheap and I needed a new laptop. 7 years later. Still have said laptop and it runs as good as the day I got it. I was worried initially so dual booted it with windows. Never needed to use it...
> 
> With regards to word and compatibility, have you got the latest version on your mac and not on your pc? I found the later versions of word give you the option of how you want it to be saved?
> 
> Enjoy your mac. I couldn't seem to have a windows laptop more than 4 years with daily regular use as I said my lower spec mac is still going strong. I would like a new one but I don't need one.


The components used in Apple computers are very often the same as in a PC.

Look at the brand names of your components and most will appear regularly in normal computers.

It isn't the component spec why people by Apple machines.

I highly doubt failure of components is down to the operating system either.

All electrical/mechanical parts always have a risk of going wrong.


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## DW58

Kerr said:


> The components used in Apple computers are very often the same as in a PC.
> 
> Look at the brand names of your components and most will appear regularly in normal computers.
> 
> It isn't the component spec why people by Apple machines.
> 
> I highly doubt failure of components is down to the operating system either.
> 
> All electrical/mechanical parts always have a risk of going wrong.


BORING! 

For goodness' sake change the record - you and a handful of other DW members come out with similar crap on every Apple-related thread and no-one's listening. Accept the fact there is room for PC users and Apple users. You constantly knock what you so stupidly term "Apple Fanboys" or similar when you're an equally clichéed "Apple-hater".

This it getting to be very boring. I own a Mac which you don't like, I also own a VW which I'm guessing you also don't like, well so f*cking what, it's my money which I choose to spend the way I choose, now STFU and spend your money on whatever you choose and I'll ignore you because you're not worth the effort.

Reminder to self - add another ***** to the "ignore list".


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## Kerr

DW58 said:


> BORING!
> 
> For goodness' sake change the record - you and a handful of other DW members come out with similar crap on every Apple-related thread and no-one's listening. Accept the fact there is room for PC users and Apple users. You constantly knock what you so stupidly term "Apple Fanboys" or similar when you're an equally clichéed "Apple-hater".
> 
> This it getting to be very boring. I own a Mac which you don't like, I also own a VW which I'm guessing you also don't like, well so f*cking what, it's my money which I choose to spend the way I choose, now STFU and spend your money on whatever you choose and I'll ignore you because you're not worth the effort.
> 
> Reminder to self - add another ***** to the "ignore list".


Sigh.

I only stated a fact that they are built with the very same parts after the poster moaned about PC users not being aware of what Macs are.

If you don't like Apple you are automatically a hater.

If you slag of PCs and make condescending remarks you are apparently entitled to your opinion.

At least unlike you I won't be dragged down to childish name calling.

Sad.


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## gregb

DW58 said:


> Greg - I think you've got it pretty well covered, software depends very much on what you intend using it for, but Mac have the basics of most things covered, e.g. iPhoto, iMovie etc., MS Office for Mac is excellent.


Cheers, not used an iMac before so really looking forward to it based on my use of iPhone 4s and iPad 1st gen, bought swimbo latest iPad and 4s for Chrimbo so I'll be jealous of her iPad no doubt.

What's the best way to set itunesup for us both on the mac, separate mac user accounts or separate iTunes library. I don't want her crap music and apps on my kit:lol::lol:

I'll have the latest ms office format as I can download it through a work offer for £10 :thumb:


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## Rob_Quads

DW58 said:


> BORING!
> 
> For goodness' sake change the record - you and a handful of other DW members come out with similar crap on every Apple-related thread and no-one's listening. Accept the fact there is room for PC users and Apple users. You constantly knock what you so stupidly term "Apple Fanboys" or similar when you're an equally clichéed "Apple-hater".
> 
> This it getting to be very boring. I own a Mac which you don't like, I also own a VW which I'm guessing you also don't like, well so f*cking what, it's my money which I choose to spend the way I choose, now STFU and spend your money on whatever you choose and I'll ignore you because you're not worth the effort.
> 
> Reminder to self - add another ***** to the "ignore list".


To be fair - I don't normally agree with Kerr on many Apple/PC things but the points he raised are very valid one. People don't but Macs due to the specs or the failure rates. They fail just as often its just typically much easier to get it sorted with a Mac, that doesn't mean they didn't fail in the first place.


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## gregb

Rob_Quads said:


> To be fair - I don't normally agree with Kerr on many Apple/PC things but the points he raised are very valid one. People don't but Macs due to the specs or the failure rates. They fail just as often its just typically much easier to get it sorted with a Mac, that doesn't mean they didn't fail in the first place.


As the op wanted thoughts on whether or not to buy a mac and has now bought one it's somewhat irrelevant to continue the argument is it not.

You pays your money and takes your chance :thumb:


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## gregb

gregb said:


> Cheers, not used an iMac before so really looking forward to it based on my use of iPhone 4s and iPad 1st gen, bought swimbo latest iPad and 4s for Chrimbo so I'll be jealous of her iPad no doubt.
> 
> What's the best way to set itunesup for us both on the mac, separate mac user accounts or separate iTunes library. I don't want her crap music and apps on my kit:lol::lol:
> 
> I'll have the latest ms office format as I can download it through a work offer for £10 :thumb:


No recommendations on iTunes set up chaps and chapesses .


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## HeavenlyDetail

Anybody wanting Macbooks, iMac,s etc pm me.
Apple is the future


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