# Leather Care Observations



## Spirit Detailing (Mar 29, 2007)

Hi folks,

I've done a some research on leather seats and I've come up with some conclusions. 

Modern leather seats have water-based urethane coating. You don't see the leather.... just how do you know it needs to be conditioned?  

Urethane coatings are damaged by petroleum-based leather creams and conditioners. 

We are only led to believe that we need to condition leather very frequently. Most conditioners have little restorative properties and sell mainly by the "Leather Scent" that it gives. This is what people like and is the main selling point. They may actually be damaging the seat.

Leather seats are mostly damaged by dirt getting into the grain and into the stitching. Every time you sit on the seat, there is a cutting effect so the coating degrades and the split tears deeper into the leather, causing a "craze". 

The most important thing you can do is keep leather (ie. the surface colour coat) cleaned and vacuumed. 

The dirt that gets down into the leather fibre would be sweat and grime, with other stuff like body lotion, deodorant, etc. Most off-the-shelf conditioners drive this dirt further into the leather.

Car seat leather is known as Aniline leather. It has been dyed in the tanning process and then top-coated with the colour that suits your car. If you want to condition your leather, you have to go through the aniline surface.
This is why you need something that has no petroleum base or silicones. 

Time for conditioning depends on the climate where you live and how long you spend in the car. In Ireland I would condition three times over two years but clean the seat regularly. If I were in Spain, it would be twice that. 

Aniline leather coating is similar to car paint. The dye is a water-based polymer, and is applied in stages. Prime, Base and Clear Coat.
But it is much more porous and flexible. Car manufacturers change the coating almost annually as improvements are made.

To keep the seat looking good, its best to use a water-based PDMS surface dressing. (PolyDiMethyl Silicon - usually milky white). Apply lightly to the surface with a soft sponge and buff off with a MF towel. Do not use a solvent-based dressing.

Ingrained dirt. The seats also do not like strong detergent, saddle soap, etc. Warm water with a light sprinkle of soap crystals or a drop of coconut-based hair shampoo (without conditioner) will clean without harming.
Gently agitate the suds into the grain with a good quality nail-brush (or proper leather-cleaning brush if you want to splash out). No need to scrub, just massage the bristles into the grain and then wipe the grime away with a damp clean towel. Clean one panel at a time.

There are only two brands of leather care that I personally use now: Leatherique for leather that has been neglected; Lexol for regular maintenance and conditioning.

Questions, comments... very welcome.

Sweepy


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## vectra ed (Feb 4, 2006)

A very informative write up, leather cleanibg is more complex than I had imagined.


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## scotty328i (Mar 7, 2007)

So was my gliptone a waste of money I just ordered?


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## SURFERROSA (Feb 7, 2007)

Very interesting:thumb: .

Leather care is something I will need to do properly soon.

I hope this thread gets many more posts.

Well done .


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

Car leather seats are indeed simply a leather laminate! I will seek out a very good post from a year ago!

Saying that zymol treat transformed the dry leather in my car to supple soft leather so I will keep using it :thumb:


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=225

Another problem is the actual quality of the fabric and leather on modern cars. The leather often isn't leather, it's vinyl on the backs of seats, door panels etc. Often it's only the base and the upright this is leather. As for the leather, this is often very very poor quality. With older cars, they would take a hide and shave it into three layers. The bottom layer is suede and the top two layers can be used for various parts of the upholstery. But these days they use a chemical process to swell the leather, and then computer controlled machinery to shave the leather into ten layer (yes, 10 layers). This leather is then pressed and stamped with a leather texture (general rule of thumb is that the heavier the leather pattern, the lower quality the leather as the texture is used to hide imperfections). The Leather is then laminated between fabric and a clear breathable vinyl. So in effect, your leather is just vinyl with a leather veneer sandwiched in between.


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## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

Sweepy, you say you've done some research. Do you have some URLs.

Brazo, the thread you linked to also doesn't have any links to external sources.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Sweepy or Clean_Image (whose post you linked to) are wrong, but I do suspect that there is probably a difference between the type and quality of leather used by various (car) manufacturers and so the care regime will possibly vary - there are certainly a lot of variation in the look and feel of leather in different makes of car.


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## Del-GTi (Mar 31, 2007)

scotty328i said:


> So was my gliptone a waste of money I just ordered?


I wouldn't say so mate. I'm using this on my Recaros in my Golf and they have came up really well and smell amazing.


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## Spirit Detailing (Mar 29, 2007)

Parish, you are quite right.
I actually did proper research.... not just copying and pasting from websites.
When I was restoring leather a few years ago, I emailed a bunch of people directly including one Museum professor who restored ancient and historical leather items! 
But mostly it was industry and tannery people, a few guys who used to work for Connolly Hide before it shut down and two major car care product manufacturers who actually would not release leather conditioners under their own brand because they would not risk their affiliation with the big car names. ie. their chemists worked closely with the chemists in DuPont, BASF, etc and hence received approval from US, European & Japanese car makers. They do manufacture them on OEM contracts though. 

Some of the companies I dealt with that you might recognise would be Bridge of Weir (bow.co.uk), Autoglym, Zymol, Lexol, European Automotive Leather...a good few others.

The underpinning issue that car owners have to deal with is that we must primarily ignore the fact that the seat is leather, and that the top-coatings need to be cared for more than the underlying skin. But cut-throat marketing will see competing manufacturers trying to separate you from your money and they will lure with all sorts of ploys. Products with Banana Oil, Neetsfoot, Mink Oil, Aloe, etc. All of this does nothing for car leather. Some of them have Lanolin or Collagen in them, but you need to know how to use these or you get one greasy car. 

Of course, the more expensive the car, you would imagine the better the leather. Not true. In the early 90's Ferrari released very poor quality leather seats. 

I almost lost a customer once because I accused his Lexus of having fake Suede in it. It was my mistake, but it happened to be disintegrating and the fibre looked exactly like damp cardboard when you pull it apart. 

But this is the risk with leather. Car manufacturers won't use leather that's been split 10 times. This is mostly used in the furniture and apparel industries. They go for the middle of the 3-split. But a leather hide by its nature is going to be almost unique. Some of them are strong, some are weak, some are scarred and some are old. 

Sorry, I'm waffling here... back to products. From what I can see, there are 3 types of product. The first is the petroleum based lotions that will wreck the surface - its a chemical break-down. The second is the fake conditioner that is nothing more than a water-based dressing with a "leather" smell and little lanolin in it. The third is the safely developed conditioner that you "might" be able to use continuously without harm. Sorry I have my doubts about them all because of the basic chemical reactions between the oils and the urethane polymer coatings.

Some car manufacturers have their own brands of products and I know of a bunch of them that use the fake conditioner. ALLEGEDLY certain Swedish and German companies have them for sale in the US right now, all made by one of my contacts. He also makes them in bulk to be re-bottled and sold by private label companies. 

Seriously, the leather care products out there are ALLEGEDLY mostly not what they are made out to be. Best to mainly keep them seats clean and don't believe the hype!!

Sweepy.


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## Georgy (Mar 13, 2007)

So if my leather is starting to crack and i want to give it some TLC, what product do you recommend?


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

just bought some used vw seats in black leather...ive got them soaking in leatherique rejuv oil for a couple of days


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## Rasher (Mar 6, 2006)

where can you buy it??


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

www.leatherique.com worked out fairly expensive

and wear gloves...whatever it is gives me a rash if i touch my face with rejuv oil on my hands


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## Rasher (Mar 6, 2006)

thanks mate


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## Spirit Detailing (Mar 29, 2007)

yep leatherique will be the best thing. Let it soak in at least 24 hrs. It will put back suppleness that was lost and caused cracks. Massage it in well.... its quite the sensual product !!!


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

sweepy have you used it alot?

while i find leatherique the best leather stuff out there, i dont really notice massive differances in softness like some reviews claim

ive brushed it on heavily and stood the seats in the sun all day then near the aga at night

it only seems to soak in in high wear areas and creases


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## Spirit Detailing (Mar 29, 2007)

I've used it a LOT! It does work but sometimes you won't specifically see any obvious change.

Anyhow, What's your car again? And what's your leather like? It could be thicker or have naturally stiffer fibre in it so no amount of anything will soften it like calf skin. Eg. My focus has pretty good hide in it, but its not that soft. I keep it lightly conditioned to keep the fibre supple and flexible. Otherwise it would definitely crack.

An important thing to remember is not to *soak* the leather in the rejuvenator. Just smear it on the surface and let it permeate for a day before cleaning. If you let too much seep through, you might get leather-rot. Its the car-seat version of trench-foot!! It would happen if you repeatedly apply the leatherique or any conditioner liberally.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

scotty328i said:


> So was my gliptone a waste of money I just ordered?


nope, i just used it and its brilliant stuff :thumb:


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## squeal (Mar 3, 2006)

gliptone is all ive used thats impressed me-has this any negative effects?


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## Georgy (Mar 13, 2007)

Is there any that could sort me out a small sample to try on my seats? or is there a UK distributor?


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## Affection to Detail (Jul 6, 2006)

Regardless of what Gliptone does, it cleaned my leather seats, will get some photos soon and the conditioner seemed to make a lot of difference.

Obviously I'm not saying it will work in all applications.

And I'll tell you, my seats hadnt been cleaned for 180k miles, they needed scrubbing. I tried the gentle gentle approach but it wasnt shifting it. Ended up using the green abrasive pads u buy at the supermarket. Took 3 hrs to do one chair mind you.


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## jimjon (Mar 30, 2007)

i've just starting using gliptone on mine, infact i did it only yesterday

my main reasons for using it, are that i don't want the bolsters to start wearing out and ripping


























should i stop using gliptone? it certainly changes the feel of the seats, but not for too long


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## Affection to Detail (Jul 6, 2006)

Before you stop using it maybe you should talk to them and find out what is in it and how it differs to the other products suggested. Its recommended by a lot of manufactures according the their website.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Lots of Gliptone for sale:lol:


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

sweepy , mine are 1997 vw recaros i just picked up

to be fair im pretty happy with how they came out..i did heap loads of oil on left in a hot room for 48hrs, then used the pristine clean on a soft nail brush

no before pics but they getting shinney and are now nice and matt looking










and leatherique doesnt leave that old stale leather smell that i dislike with gliptone


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## Spirit Detailing (Mar 29, 2007)

I'm going to email gliptone as well to check them out. They might not even make it themselves though but I will check it out. I've never used it so I'm not going to criticise or compliment before I find out more. 

Steve they look well for their age. I have reconditioned a good few Recaros with worn out bolsters. That's pretty much how I would have cleaned them as well.


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

sweepy do you think theres any gain in putting rejuv oil on the reverse side of the leather ?? ive got the apart now for deep cleaning and have access to the back of the leather now

what do you mean youve reconditioned worn out bolsters? could you suggest anything further for mine? while i wouldnt say theyre worn out , they do look "used"


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## Spirit Detailing (Mar 29, 2007)

No, not now that they have already been conditioned. It only takes a small amount and you don't want to drown the fibre.... that creates leather rot.

Actually I stopped doing reconditioning because I don't like the results for cars that are used every day. I used to do a process known as re-connolising. It involves conditioning and prepping the leather with abrasives, fillers, emulsions, and then spraying them with dye and clear coat. It was a treat on classic cars but you get a seat that is used every day and it wears away again after a year. I felt I couldn't justify the cost of the work with the durability of the finish and I hate poor quality.

For your own bolsters, they look okay for now. What I do with worn leather now is just a colour wash for the cracks (as long as they aren't too bad). It disguises the problem and improves the overall look pretty well. You just apply the colour wash like a condtioner over the panel and just wipe the surface wetness away, leaving the colour down in the cracks. 

Sweepy


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## shane_ctr (Dec 17, 2006)

this is a very intresting post i have been using megs clearner and condition on my leather, its seems to work but after specking to Carisma who did the leather the said hoover it and wipe over with water


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## Affection to Detail (Jul 6, 2006)

.Shane. said:


> this is a very intresting post i have been using megs clearner and condition on my leather, its seems to work but after specking to Carisma who did the leather the said hoover it and wipe over with water


Thats fine if its new, this is more a case for old leather with ingrained dirt which is old and tired.


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## Jules (May 21, 2006)

Sweepy,

What about Leather dyes? I've got a stain that I cannot remove as was thinking about covering it up, will the dyes that you can get from ebay last a year only?

Cheers

J


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## Spirit Detailing (Mar 29, 2007)

Hiya Jules!

The problem is that they are mainly not dyes, as they only coat the surface. A dye penetrates through, so these are all mainly "paint" !! Because they are nearly all water-based as far as I know, they won't get that hard bond to the leather seats coating. 

What's the stain? If you have info, or a picture, I might be able to give you a few tips to get rid of it.

Cheers

Sweepy


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## Silver (Aug 23, 2006)

Interesting read....explaining about car leather.


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## Spirit Detailing (Mar 29, 2007)

Why I like Lexol.... Got a few PM's about this...

Lexol cleaner is pH balanced specifically for modern leather and the conditioner is a modified version of traditional conditioning oils.
There is no dodgy added scent, so any smell you get is the whiff of original leather as the fibres are moisturised and re-conditioned. Nice!! 

The thing I like about the Lexol company is that they specialise in skin-care = both animal-hide and human skin. They aren't trying to compete with other car-care manufacturers, marketing a whole range of products. Their chemists are dedicated to these products alone and for the price, its one of the best out there. For example, a lot of leather conditioners out there would have lanolin in it, which is okay but its very greasy. Lexol are the biggest users of lanolin in the US but they won't use it in the leather conditioner because their modified ingredients are better! They save the lanolin for their human products...

Because the conditioner is light in application, I would suggest using it every 14 to 16 weeks. If we have a long hot summer, every 10 to 12 weeks, but the trick with Lexol is that a little goes a long way. Over-application will not be good.

Sweepy


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## Bullitt (Feb 21, 2006)

Sweepy, could you let me know of any UK suppliers of Lexol?


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

www.motorgeek.co.uk sell the lexol range


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## Mike_001 (Apr 7, 2007)

I like LEXOL very much.

But I also very often use the Colourlock range of products. (Colourlock by Lederzentrum.de)
This is the manufacturer that makes many of the Swissvax leather products too.


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## davenewman76 (Apr 2, 2007)

Interesting read, Think the leather seats in the porka need doing, starting to show signs of wear! Some Lexol on its way!


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## Deanoecosse (Mar 15, 2007)

For slight wear on seat bolsters I've used one of those Clarks shoe care creams (in a small squeezy tube with a foam pad attached). Just rub it over the worn area and leave to dry, then buff off with a cloth. It's worked great on my black Audi & cream Jaguar seats and it's only a couple of quid.


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## Georgy (Mar 13, 2007)

Sweepy, have you had a chance to try the gliptone range? I would be interested to find what you think about it.


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## Gargajo (Sep 24, 2006)

Hummm... what about using Antiquax leather soap or products of that sort. Any good?


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## Multipla Mick (Feb 5, 2006)

I went along to see these people some time ago
http://www.lttsolutions.net/
very interesting it was too, there is so much more to leather than meets the eye, as we've found out on this thread. They tested some of the kit I was using and found the AS leather cleaner to be good stuff, but the AS leather conditioner they were less than complimentary about. I was only there for about an hour, but learnt a fair old bit. They concentrate mainly on the furniture industry, but advise on all types of leather, and although it isn't on their web site, they do training courses for car valeters. I came away with a couple of their products which proved to be excellent, and a couple of the small foaming dispenser bottles, which do a good job too, using less product and making application easier.


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## xristos (Dec 27, 2008)

Very interesting read.


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

BrianS said:


> Car seat leather is known as Aniline leather. It has been dyed in the tanning process and then top-coated with the colour that suits your car. If you want to condition your leather, you have to go through the aniline surface.
> This is why you need something that has no petroleum base or silicones.
> 
> Time for conditioning depends on the climate where you live and how long you spend in the car. In Ireland I would condition three times over two years but clean the seat regularly. If I were in Spain, it would be twice that.
> ...


Usefull post put I am pretty sure you are wrong, car leather is known as corrected grain or pigmented. Aniline leather is pure leather with no coating, it is coloured by dye. It is very easily scratched and colour transfer is also easy, it would not be well suited for cars. You do get semi aniline which is the same with a light coating of clear finish, but I doubt many if any modern cars have this. Pigmented or corrected grain is exactly as you describe, sprayed on like car paint, the only difference being the addition of the grain pattern into the coating.


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## judyb (Sep 7, 2007)

gt5500 you are correct. The information in the previous post is incorrect. 

A lot of leather is aniline dyed before it is pigment coated as this is generally done as part of the retanning process. This means that when the leather is damaged it is the same (or similar) colour underneath which can make the damage less obvious. 
There is some used in cars but it is rare. 
Pigmented leather is either full grain (where nothing has been done to the surface of the leather) or corrected grain (which has been buffed to remove any imperfections) and then has the top coating of pigment (paint) with a clear coat finish. The leather can be left in its natural state or have an imprinted grain pattern - most grain patterns in leather are false - leather in its natural state has very little surface pattern.
Full Grain leather is the best quality there is. 

Hope this helps


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