# Werkstat v Vics Concours Kit v R222?



## superdon (Dec 9, 2010)

Hi all,

Going round in circles trying to decide on my new kit.

Over the past few years have been using R222 Cleanser and Concours wax, which I have been fairly pleased with. Its lasted me for years!

Just fancied maybe trying something else, but only if its as good (preferably better) than the R222.

So, having done a lot of reading, I have come up with...

i) Werkstat Acrylic Kit - http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/werkstat-acrylic-kit-cat1.html - £55.95

ii) Victoria Wax Concours Kit - http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/wax/victoria-wax/victoria-concours-kit/prod_422.html - £39.95

iii) Carlack 68 Sealing Kit - http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/sealants/carlack-sealant-kit/prod_358.html - £24.95 in combination with some other wax

I am prepared to spend a decent amount, but cant afford to buy something and then need something else. So, I need to make a good decision.

The main vehicle this will be used on is a white 10 year old VW Transporter camper. But, I will also do my wifes car (which is black!!!).

I am trying to decide on the finishing kit first, but will also be needing all the other bits as I am totally out of kit now.

Cheers for any advice.


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

For white and the size of vehicle (ease of use) i'd be looking at the Werkstat kit. 

I've still yet to see a better finish on white using Wekstat, you only need to search for a few thread to see how well it looks on light colours. And the black for that matter.

It'll also give durability just incase you were looking for that.


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## 0507448n (Feb 3, 2010)

I ordered Werkstat Acrylic Kit from Polished Bliss a month ago and finally used it yesterday on both cars (both silver) and must say I love the stuff. Very easy to use and the finish is fantastic. Last a while too!


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## horned yo (Feb 10, 2009)

I love my werkstat kit so that would be my choice every time. I have only used the vics wax but havent used the other stuff in that kit.


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## horned yo (Feb 10, 2009)

0507448n said:


> I ordered Werkstat Acrylic Kit from Polished Bliss a month ago and finally used it yesterday on both cars (both silver) and must say I love the stuff. Very easy to use and the finish is fantastic. Last a while too!


I find that werkstat kit adds a real sparkle to silver metalic :thumb:


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

Werkstat Acrylic kit for white car :thumb:. you can apply P21s Concours wax over Acrylic jett:.


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## superdon (Dec 9, 2010)

Thanks. I think the Werkstat kit is the way forward.

So, can you recommend what to use before the Acrylic kit to prepare the paintwork? 

Was thinking of Born to be mild shampoo. I already have some Megs clay, but any polish or other steps?

I'll also be looking at some stuff for the glass and wheels/tyres.

Cheers again


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

How good is the 100% stuff, not many people mention it but i'm intrigued.


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

You'll struggle to beat the look R222 brings you. Sure it doesn't last ages but the actual finish is very good.

Victoria concours give very similar looks but after a few days the Vics really starts to come into it's own.

From us you could get the Carlack kit which is essentially the similar to the Werkstatt (Werkstatt buy from Carlack Germany), apart from the Long Life Sealant is more potent, but as a result non sprayable. Applied on a damp microfibre applicator it will last you ages and spread just as easy.

On another level for silver you could try Carlack Nano & Long Life topped with the Vics Concours or even the new Victoria Chaos over Carlack which would look very nice.

Tim


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## superdon (Dec 9, 2010)

CleanYourCar said:


> You'll struggle to beat the look R222 brings you. Sure it doesn't last ages but the actual finish is very good.
> 
> Victoria concours give very similar looks but after a few days the Vics really starts to come into it's own.
> 
> ...


When you say "after a few days the Vics really starts to come into its own" - what do you mean? Is it better than the R222?

So are you suggesting....

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/sealants/carlack-sealant-kit/prod_358.html

topped with...

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/wax/victoria-wax/victoria-wax-3oz-concours-wax/prod_312.html

....would work well? How would that be compared with the R222 system I have been using? Remembering this is mainly for use on a white van?

And, which wash/treatment/polishes would you recommend before that system?


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

100% Carnauba R222 has a durability of, at best, around 2 months. 

Whilst it gives a warm, wet, glossy finish, it's generally not regarded as the optimum on white, which is where a sealant will excel. 

R222 Concours Look has slightly less durability. 

On a larger vehicle, a liquid, sprayable product (for ease of use) with longer durability (less requirement to top) will probably be preferable. Additionally, a sealant system such as Werkstat Acrylic (emphatically not the same as any other system, despite what some claim) will give a superior finish on white, over a wax.


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## rockape (Feb 18, 2007)

i purchased the werkstat acryiic kit and, love it. ease of use and outstanding finish :thumb:


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

superdon said:


> When you say "after a few days the Vics really starts to come into its own" - what do you mean? Is it better than the R222?
> 
> So are you suggesting....
> 
> ...


Yes those would work well together. The Carlack sealant system would definitely be best for the prep and then top with a nice wax which will look lovely on white. The Carlack Nano to cleanse and then the sealant to lock the finish in.

I didn't realise it was a van you were doing so maybe for the final product something like Optimum Car wax would be better. It's very easy to use, looks great and gives bags of durability. It's that easy to use you can do it between washes as a top up.

For shamppo it's a can of worms. Some I like include the Carlack Shampoo, Finishkare Poly wash and wax or the Chemical Guys body wash and wax.


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## superdon (Dec 9, 2010)

Yeah, its a van, but a camper and not a work van. Although it is a daily drive.

Totally stuck now. I think its between the Carlack Kit with the wax or the Werkstat Acrylic kit. Both similar price. Wekstat seems most liked, and looks great, but the Carlack will allow me to use a wax - which I like applying.

Decisions, decisions.


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

You _can_ apply a wax over Werkstat, it's just that there's generally no need as the aesthetic finish, durability and water beading make the need for wax redundant.


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## RCZ (Aug 13, 2010)

John @ PB said:


> You _can_ apply a wax over Werkstat, it's just that there's generally no need as the aesthetic finish, durability and water beading make the need for wax redundant.


Just a thought...but if you DID put a layer of wax over jett, then are you limiting the effectiveness of FUTURE layers of jett, as sealants don't like to be put on top of wax?


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

Yes, it wouldn't then be advisable to apply further coats of Jett Trigger until the wax had degraded.


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## ColinA5 (May 30, 2007)

Deleted!


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

superdon said:


> Over the past few years have been using R222 Cleanser and Concours wax, which I have been fairly pleased with. Its lasted me for years!
> 
> Just fancied maybe trying something else, but only if its as good (preferably better) than the R222.


P21S/R222 combo is one of my favorites. It doesn't seem to get mentioned much at all around here, but it's sure hard to beat. The whole range of the P21S/R222 is great, no crap products at all.



superdon said:


> ii) Victoria Wax Concours Kit - http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/wax/victoria-wax/victoria-concours-kit/prod_422.html - £39.95


This is one wax that I like better! I've got the victoria wax shampoo and QD as well, they are great also.

I find the look to be darker and deeper, not as silvery as the R222 concours. It also lasts a great deal longer too. Saying that, I feel the R222 would look a bit nicer on white to be honest.

The combo I'd go for if you love the R222 so much, is Optimum Car Wax, over Opti-Seal. You can use the opti-seal on absolutely everything like your trim and glass as well. The OCW has a similar look to the R222 concours, and seems to last longer too. It is a spray sealant/wax and is ideal for the quick top up.


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## 123quackers (Jan 29, 2009)

R222 over 3 layers of Jett then every 3 or 4 weeks top up the R222

Werkstat is really easy to use and a great lasting product on its own. Just like to use waxes as well.

Jett with BOS is next on the to try out when the weather improves:thumb:


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## superdon (Dec 9, 2010)

Seems to be the majority favour the werkstat kit. I have a bit of R222 wax left so I think I will try werkstat and do one panel with a R222 top up and see how it compares


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## Throbber (Apr 28, 2007)

Another vote for Werkstat here.

I've got P21S and Vic's, they both give nice results but Werkstat is just so much easier to apply.

You can keep on layering the trigger or QD after each wash, only takes a few minutes to go over the whole car.

I actually prefer the look it gives on lighter colours as well.


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## RCZ (Aug 13, 2010)

Throbber said:


> Another vote for Werkstat here.
> 
> I've got P21S and Vic's, they both give nice results but Werkstat is just so much easier to apply.
> 
> ...


How do the jett and Glos compare? I've only got 1/3 of a bottle of jett left and don't know whether to re-order or get Glos. I know the blurb says it's 1/2 sealant and 1/2 QD but I'd be interested to know what a user thinks.


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

Glos will add some protection but it's best to go onto a surface already treated with Jett Trigger: Glos will also increase the durability of Jett Trigger. 

You're probably best to go with Jett Trigger. 

1/3 of a bottle of Jett Trigger should be 5 to 8 applications.


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## RCZ (Aug 13, 2010)

John @ PB said:


> Glos will add some protection but it's best to go onto a surface already treated with Jett Trigger: Glos will also increase the durability of Jett Trigger.
> 
> You're probably best to go with Jett Trigger.
> 
> 1/3 of a bottle of Jett Trigger should be 5 to 8 applications.


Think I've been using too much then...I've got 4 - 5 layers on an RCZ with 2/3 bottle. How many squirts would you recommend for the door for example? i'm not spraying in one spot. As I spray, I move the bottle so the Jett is applied in a stripe over a greater surface area. Using an MF cloth is not like applying a wax with a foam pad, which gets 'loaded'. MF cloths just seem to absorb the jett.


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## RCZ (Aug 13, 2010)

John @ PB said:


> You're probably best to go with Jett Trigger.


Why do you say that John? I was leaning towards getting some Glos.


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## josadler (Jul 14, 2010)

I think You will find as many people that like Carlack 68 as people that like Werkstatt.
I always use Carlack as a cleaner/sealer and put a sealant: Finishkare 1000p (light color/silver) or a wax: Collinite/Victoria (darker color) on top of it.
Protection on my cars lasts at least 2 years.


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

RCZ said:


> Why do you say that John? I was leaning towards getting some Glos.


Actually, either of them will be great: I leant towards Jett Trigger as it adds more protection than Glos but they do different jobs: if I was me, I'd go with the Jett but it's mostly personal preference: Glos will give good results and add some protection.





josadler said:


> I think You will find as many people that like Carlack 68 as people that like Werkstatt.
> I always use Carlack as a cleaner/sealer and put a sealant: Finishkare 1000p (light color/silver) or a wax: Collinite/Victoria (darker color) on top of it.
> Protection on my cars lasts at least 2 years.


Carlack doesn't really come into it: this is a thread about Werkstat.

(http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=206548)


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## RCZ (Aug 13, 2010)

Thanks John - you've probably sussed I've ordered the Glos to complement the Jett. I've also put AG HD wax on the roof and will put AB addiction on the boot.

It's mainly the sides and rear bumper that gets very dirty because the car has no mudflaps, so they'll get regular Glos with the occassional Jett..as will the bonnet.


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

Cool (yes I'd twigged it was you!)


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## RCZ (Aug 13, 2010)

Thanks again John...looking forward to trying it. 

Funny but Blueberry is also on the RCZ forum giving detailing advice...and from my own research/trials, I've ended up with exactly the same arsenal as her virtually. She also has a white RCZ.


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## hsiaolc (Mar 15, 2010)

John @ PB said:


> Carlack doesn't really come into it: this is a thread about Werkstat.


Hmm you didn't read the OP's post. This is not a thread just about Werkstat. Nasty


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## Blueberry (Aug 10, 2007)

RCZ said:


> Thanks again John...looking forward to trying it.
> 
> Funny but Blueberry is also on the RCZ forum giving detailing advice...and from my own research/trials, I've ended up with exactly the same arsenal as her virtually. She also has a white RCZ.


That's because great minds thing alike:thumb:

I use the Glos when drying and leaves a lovely glossiness to the car.

When applying Jett I spray a couple of squirts on each panel, spread with a MF cloth then use a clean MF cloth to buff.


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## RCZ (Aug 13, 2010)

Blueberry said:


> I use the Glos when drying and leaves a lovely glossiness to the car.
> 
> When applying Jett I spray a couple of squirts on each panel, spread with a MF cloth then use a clean MF cloth to buff.


So you use it on the car after the rinse without drying it first?


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## Tweak (Sep 17, 2010)

RCZ said:


> So you use it on the car after the rinse without drying it first?


Any QD could be used as a rinse aid to help the water sheep straight off the car.
I'm not sure if Blueberry uses it this way.
But tbh, if you plan on splashing on a layer of gloss, you might aswell just throw on a layer of jet IMHO, because its just as quick, and jet gives better protection than gloss.


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

hsiaolc said:


> Hmm you didn't read the OP's post. This is not a thread just about Werkstat. Nasty


Yes, true, I was focussing on the title of the thread.

There has been a lot of confusion regarding Werkstat and Carlack as evidenced by the other thread: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=206548 - these two threads were running simultaneously so there was a lot of crossover.

The comment really wasn't nasty, or certainly aimed to be.


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## superdon (Dec 9, 2010)

Well, still undecided! And, I have just been reading about the Zaino stuff now as well!


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## RCZ (Aug 13, 2010)

Tweak said:


> But tbh, if you plan on splashing on a layer of gloss, you might aswell just throw on a layer of jet IMHO, because its just as quick, and jet gives better protection than gloss.


I've bought the Glos now. It's 60% cheaper than Jett so I can keep my Jett for a simple top up should it be needed. The PB site says that it protects the Jett almost indefintely.


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

superdon said:


> Well, still undecided! And, I have just been reading about the Zaino stuff now as well!


The Zaino is in my opinion a step up on Werkstat (and Carlack Long Life ) for protection and looks, but as pre-wax even though AIO is good pound for pound I still think Carlack Nano Systematic has it beaten.

Tim


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## packto (Mar 8, 2011)

CleanYourCar said:


> The Zaino is in my opinion a step up on Werkstat (and Carlack Long Life ) for protection and looks, but as pre-wax even though AIO is good pound for pound I still think Carlack Nano Systematic has it beaten.
> 
> Tim


So you think Carlack nano Systematic + zaino Z2pro is one the best combo for white paint?


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