# Any Audiophiles Here?



## Shiny

I'm thinking about getting an amp for the living room to listen to music with a pair of speakers. Kind of a starter set to add separates to later.

I've an old 1980's stack down the garage, Dual record deck, NAD amp (on its way out unfortunatley), NAD tuner & KEF speakers with 90's additions of a Yamaha tape deck, Pioneer surround sound processor and Harman Kardon CD deck.

_If_ compatible, plan would be to find a new amp with old RCA connectors so i can move the Dual record deck and Harman Kardon down to the house and use these, until i maybe plan to upgrade them in the future. I'll leave the NAD and the tape deck down the garage as i have all my old tapes down the garage.

Would like the amp to have bluetooth so i can play from my phone and also with an mp3 jack as i have an old HTC HD2 which i use as a music player.

Looking for recommendations of what amp and speakers to consider that will hopefully be suitable if possble please. I had emails from Richer Sounds with Cambridge audio amps and these are what caught my attention, but i'm 30 years behind on technology here so haven't got a clue!

By the looks of things i'd need a separate graphic equaliser to the amp, assuming these are still a thing these days?

Budget, well i don't mind paying for quality, but if i can keep the amp & speakers below £500 and maybe squeeze an EQ unit in there too, i'd be happy (or rather i would get less grief from the missus).


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## Wrigit

Similar boat to yourself, built mine years ago and never kept up with it all.

Only suggestions i have are go to the nearest Richer sounds and have a listen and chinwag (bath is nearest think)

Look at the what hifi award winners from a few years ago and grab yourself a great bargain amp & speakers.

Failing that avforums


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## bigfatsi

+1

Completely agree. Head down to your local Richer Sounds and try a few out!

S


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## Shiny

Yeah, i've planned a trip to Bath on the train, my lad is at uni there so i can take him for a pint too.

I've been looking round their website (when it eventually loads) to try and get an idea before i go there, but would like to go armed with real world advice if you know what i mean.

The Onkyo amp and speaker packages look OK, not sure if they have bluetooth though.


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## DrEskimo

Best bet is to go on AVForums and have a look through the discussion on there mate.

I wanted a decent TV and there was so really good advice and helped me pick out the good sets from the duff ones.

I am also looking at a decent sound system set-up to compliment the TV, but I have so many restrictions in terms of space and wiring that it's making it really difficult!


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## Fentum

Lloyd,

If truth be told, there has not been much improvement in audio (certainly amps and turntables) in the past few decades, whatever the mags say. 

I'd save your shekels and get what you have serviced. 

I've wasted fortunes on the upgrade path and yet I keep coming back to my (admittedly uprated) 60s era kit - Tannoy 15" speakers (dedicated cabinets and x overs), Garrard 401 turntable with a modern (Audio Research) valve amplifier. I use a DVD player to play CDs when I need to and an 80s Nakamichi tape deck. 

My advice would be to find a hi fi engineer to find out what is wrong with the NAD. They were perfectly good amps and it might just need some new capacitors (as they tend to go on the fritz). If it is just crackling when you turn the volume knob, clean the pot and the inputs with switch cleaner/Deoxit - you'd be surprised.

You'll get nothing new for £500 better than old NAD amp IMHO, unless buying second hand. 

Which Kef speakers? Again, an engineer can replace the foam surrounds if they are gone, but, again, unless buying second hand you'll struggle to find better speakers. 

I'd try your set up without a graphic equaliser - most serious hi fi systems don't have them, and never have.

The CD player and the Yamaha will probably be much better than anything you can find new today as they were made at the technological peak of the two formats' existence. There are very few new CD players today. Ditto for tapes. Both could probably do with a clean.

With the CD player, does it have a digital/optical out? If so, an investment in a Digital Audio Convertor (DAC) might be a good idea - Musical Fidelity does them as do others. If you buy one with USB capability you can then also use your computer to play downloaded files on your hifi. I'd then take the opportunity to burn your CDs to FLAC or other lossless format so that when your CD player eventually dies, you won't need to replace it. 

Your tuner may or not "wander" by now but it won't have DAB (which is aurally horrible) so will be obsolete in a few years' time. But, if you buy the DAC, you can also stream internet radio through it to your amp.

Re Bluetooth, it is quite cheap to buy an additional receiver which plugs into your aux socket - something like the Optoma NuForce BTR-100 Bluetooth Digital Audio Receiver. 

You don't say much re LPs - are you planning to use the turntable much? If so, check the stylus and budget for replacing the belt.

You might find that, for £150 of servicing, you have a perfectly adequate system. 

BTW, whatever they tell you at Richers, you also don't need to spend a fortune on cables and interconnects. I find normal twin and earth perfectly fine for speakers and would not spend more than a tenner on any pair of interconnects. 

If you don't have them, speaker stands (secure speakers to them with blutak) are probably the best single upgrade investment, but they are readily found on eBay for not very much.

HTH

Peter


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## Shiny

Awesome, that's great help, cheers.

Yeah the amp crackles and looses signal to one speaker, sometimes both, when moving the volume knob.

Funily enough this came about as the missus suggested i get my LPs out of the loft and buy a record deck. My response was that i've got a perfectly good one down the garage, just that i need something to plug it into. I'm sure i have a new stylus somewhere too.

I never listen to the radio as it doesn't play music i like, so i'm not worried about a tuner.

That's a great suggestion with the BT as an aux on the NAD, didn't realise i could do this. However, I'm more than happy to replace the amp rather than get it fixed, it has sat in my garage for the last few years and can still serve me down there with the tape player and using the aux to play from my phone headphone jack (although not the best sound, it does the job when cleaning the car!).

The KEF speakers aren't the best, they lack any punch and range, the system was originally my dad's and they were great for his classical music at the time, not so much for the noise i listen to, so they can stay down the garage too.

You've kind of backed up what i had in my head, new amp/speakers and then use the Dual record Deck and Harman Kardon CD with it. From what you are saying, i would have no real need to upgrade these. Maybe add the Pioneer surround sound at a later date with extra speakers for the TV too.


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## ttc6

I can second Peter's 'sound' advice above.

Sounds like a cracking setup, both of you!

I don't get to listen out loud much any more so I spend most of my time with FLAC files on a Fiio X3 and a pair of Audio Technica M50. It's a pretty good baseline for what it cost!


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## Fentum

BTW, is this a first on DW? Member talks OP out of spending money on shiny new things and keeping with what he has:lol:!!

Peter


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## djberney

Another support for Peter's advice. I've still got my NAD amp and Dual deck (as well as another setup with Linn LP12 and Quad pre and power amps) and they all still work fine.
My wife would put them in the bin if she could, so you're lucky to have one who wants them in the house.
If you are going to splash out on something new make sure you listen and compare and only be swayed by your own ears as each person has their own preferences much like the products on here. Salesmen, even at Richer, can be swayed by what they have in stock or want to get rid of.
Good luck with it.


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## Shiny

djberney said:


> My wife would put them in the bin if she could, so you're lucky to have one who wants them in the house.
> .


Don't get me wrong, there's no way she would have the stack in the garage in the house! I might get away with the CD and record deck with a subtle new amp though, but i'm going to have to work on it! The speakers are 80's brown with a dark brown cover :lol:

My dad was going to bin it all a few years back but i said i'll have it, hence they have ended up in the garage!


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## Andyg_TSi

Still got all my Technics stuff set up in the living room. You can't beat seperates.

Another advocate of getting what you have serviced

Pic below of mine, but ive just got my turntable out and added that to the stack.



Powering a pair these bad boys... Eltax concept 400


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## Shiny

Nice set up.

Here's mine down the garage...


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## Andyg_TSi

Deserve to be in the house mate for sure


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## pxr5

djberney said:


> Another support for Peter's advice. I've still got my NAD amp and Dual deck (as well as another setup with Linn LP12 and Quad pre and power amps) and they all still work fine.
> My wife would put them in the bin if she could, so you're lucky to have one who wants them in the house.


First dibs on the Linn if your wife makes you chuck them out :thumb: :lol:


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## steelghost

I had a NAD receiver of a similar vintage to your tuner / amp when I was about 16, got it for a fiver from a jumble sale! Sounded great. Lent it to a mate before I went to uni, never saw it again 

I have a audiolab 8000Q pre / Quad 606 power under the TV in the living room, driving Monitor Audio Silver 8i floorstanding speakers. I don't get as much chance as I'd like to listen to music on them but they do make films sound rather dramatic


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## streaky

Shiny said:


> Nice set up.
> 
> Here's mine down the garage...


That's like a flashback to some of the equipment I had :thumb:


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## Mr Ben

if you do go down the route of buying new try some indie hifi shops. Difference range of kit to Richer Sounds and, at least our local one, was super friendly and helpful. They helped us try a few different makes and models when we bought our new turntable - they even hooked it up to the closest kit they had in to what we had at home. Ended up with a Rega RP3 - lovely  They should be able to advise on needles etc too.

The Rega Brio amp seems to be getting a lot of love atm, and if its built as well, and sounds and good as their record players then that might be worth auditioning if your amp isn't reparable.


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## Shiny

We have an Audio T in Swindon and looking online it is quite similar to Richer Sounds, similar prices too. We don't have any other audio shops sadly.

The Rega Brio looks good, but at £600, over budget really.



Fentum said:


> With the CD player, does it have a digital/optical out? If so, an investment in a Digital Audio Convertor (DAC) might be a good idea - Musical Fidelity does them as do others. If you buy one with USB capability you can then also use your computer to play downloaded files on your hifi. I'd then take the opportunity to burn your CDs to FLAC or other lossless format so that when your CD player eventually dies, you won't need to replace it.


I can't get behind it to look (set of wheels and other garagy stuff in the way), but according to this https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/harman-kardon/hd7600.shtml it has coaxial and optical output. What does a DAC actually do? Will it go between the CD and amp?

The speakers are Kef Coda II, I think they were budget at the time. Definitely looking to replace these.


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## Fentum

Shiny said:


> I can't get behind it to look (set of wheels and other garagy stuff in the way), but according to this https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/harman-kardon/hd7600.shtml it has coaxial and optical output. What does a DAC actually do? Will it go between the CD and amp?
> 
> The speakers are Kef Coda II, I think they were budget at the time. Definitely looking to replace these.


OK. Yes, it will allow a DAC to be hooked up between the CD player and amp. You will need a dedicated digital or fibre-optic (Toslink) cable and a normal pair of phono cables. (And possibly a bog-standard USB connection to a computer.)

The DAC is the chip which converts the 1s and 0s stored on a CD into a waveform. The main reason for having a standalone is that it is often a superior piece of kit to the DAC in the machine.

But having a standalone also allows you to convert other digital streams into waveforms - so you can play files from your computer or stream digital radio to your amp. For this you need a USB-enabled DAC. If you want to experiment, eBay has plenty of secondhand ones (no moving parts to break) but look for a well-known reputable brand such as Musical Fidelity (V-DAC rather than anything costing £'000s), Cambridge Audio DAC Magic (from Richers), Denon or Teac. ( If you want to fly the flag, Beresford DACs are also highly rated and made in the UK by the metaphorical man in a shed, but with great after-sales back up.)

In your case it would just give you greater versatility. And, as I suggested, when your CD player gives up the ghost, you will still be able to play CDs through your CD/DVD drive (or other unit with a digital output e.g. DVD player) or stream music from a hard disk. Your CD player - probably the lens - will pack it in at some stage.

Before you do anything with the speakers, have you tried them on stands to sharpen them up? Back in the day, these were highly regarded and IIRC performed down to about 32-33 Hz, which is plenty in most domestic environments. They are "closed box" speakers which makes placement less critical than those with ports which can boom a bit depending on their placement vis-a-vis walls.

Most adult humans' hearing is limited to around 14-15 kHz and even teenagers struggle to hear much above 17-18 kHz, so I'm not sure that you will gain much advantage from replacing them (if they are in good nick). If you really want a lot of bass try finding some TDL transmission line speakers on eBay but your neighbours might object!

If you do buy new speakers, I'd suggest taking the amp you want to pair them with along as some speakers require a lot of current to get them going.

As a rule of thumb the closer the sensitivity rating is to 100 db at 8Ω, the easier they are to drive. The KEFs will be somewhere around 94-96Ω but many modern speakers are at 89-92Ω and rely on a lot of power to drive them.

By and large, I prefer having more sensitive speakers on the basis that I can keep the volume low and keep the amp unstressed rather than harnessing Hinkley Point to drive them.

HTH

Peter


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## Shiny

Thanks Peter, top job. I think i get it...

I'm off to Bath this afternoon to call into Richer sounds and see what amp/speaker packages they can put together and go from there really.

The KEF are on wall mounts in the garage, so they are off the ground, but i've decided to leave them in the garage so i still have music down there, along with the NAD amp and the Yamaha tape deck.

I'll ask Richer about the Cambridge DAC Magic, i see they have the Magic 100 for sale at £129 so it may be a worthy addition at that price.

Thanks again for your top advice, i feel i can go there much more informed now and this will certainly help.


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## shabba

Lloyd, you' re soundsystem is proper oldskool! 
As for the evolution over the last decade(s), the most important change is the availability of hires audio..
IMHO, it really comes down to what you want to use system for. If you'd like to use streaming services like TIDAL (20€/month) or QUBOZ (350€/year), I'd get a decent speaker system that supports the high resolution (if you have the necessary bandwidth)
If you want to go all out -and drive the missus (and the neighbors) crazy, go for and allround system like the Devialet Phantom (one speaker, from 1490€-2590€, and from 1200W to 4500W)


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## Tricky Red

Rega Brio is a lovely amp and worthwhile listening to. But you really need to listen to what you plan to buy. You know that anyway. Cambridge Audio are owned by Richer Sounds and are competitively priced. The XA60 is a good amp,

Don't forget that you could add something like an Arcam rblink or a miniblink to add to your existing amp which would give you APTX bluetooth from your phone. 

I still have my Musical Fidelity amp, Gale speakers and old Technics CD player, all going strong and 20 years old.


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## Tricky Red

My old thing. Just upgraded to QED speaker cable (Silver anniversary XT) and running in. Speaker woofer keeps getting the prod from the one year old which is an issue!


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## Tricky Red

Grrrrr - fifth time now!


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## Derekh929

I used to love my hifi separate amps and CD big speakers subs the works, floor standing tanoys, then I found sonos and my cinema sound amps with 4 speakers and a big sub and im happy know, all be it the surround sound on films on the merc hifi is fantastic


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## Tricky Red

well done on the 13,000th post!


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## steelghost

You don't need to spend a lot on this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Converter-...sr=1-8-spons&keywords=wolfson+dac+spdif&psc=1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/FiiO-Taish...&qid=1511970475&sr=1-15&keywords=fiio+dac#Ask

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Neet®-Blue...70674&sr=1-1&keywords=neet+bluetooth+receiver

I hear you (ha!) on the small children - I ended up having to put webbing around my speakers so they couldn't remove the grilles. Luckily I always manage to catch them in the act so the drivers remain unharmed for now...


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## Fentum

steelghost said:


> I hear you (ha!) on the small children - I ended up having to put webbing around my speakers so they couldn't remove the grilles. Luckily I always manage to catch them in the act so the drivers remain unharmed for now...


steel ghost, 
How child-unfriendly can you be?! Seriously, I feel your anxiety. In the end, I bought a cheap all in one and put away my good stuff until my son was old enough to know better.

It would have been like execution day in the Alabama penitentiary otherwise!

I use valve amps with the concomitant high voltages protected only by a wire cage through which a four year old's fingers can go! :doublesho

The phono stage ditto but no cage!:doublesho

My main turntable is over 50 years old, the tonearm is almost irreplaceable for sensible cash and the MC cartridge costs more than servicing a car:doublesho Oh, and the underside (which is currently exposed) is cadmium plated. Mmmm! Lets suck our thumb having touched that!

My Tannoy loudspeakers are 50 years old, ungrilled and irreplaceable.

The crossovers are in wooden boxes with perspex tops on the floor...

There's is then the ultrasonic bath for the LPs to play with.

Fortunately, all I need to do now is lock the door when there are small children around and put the key in the safe. But an HSE nightmare!

Peter


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## steelghost

Fentum said:


> If you really want a lot of bass try finding some TDL transmission line speakers on eBay but your neighbours might object!


I had a set of TDL RTL3s for nearly 20 years, there's still plenty of examples of them out there. If you're looking for "full range" music reproduction (ie, you can actually feel kick drums, bass guitars, low organ notes etc) then they are great, and available for not a lot these days.


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## Fentum

steelghost said:


> I had a set of TDL RTL3s for nearly 20 years, there's still plenty of examples of them out there. If you're looking for "full range" music reproduction (ie, you can actually feel kick drums, bass guitars, low organ notes etc) then they are great, and available for not a lot these days.


I agree. Not the greatest speakers in the world but very effective for bass.

The old B&W DM2s from the 70s are another neglected classic although probably a bit bulky for for most domestic settings. Great in a man cave though.

Peter


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## Shiny

Lesson one. Never set a budget :lol:

After spending the afternoon in Richer Sounds, I’m now in a pub in Bath sipping on a Birra Moretti, somewhat poorer. 

Went for Cambridge Audio Topaz AM10 amp but spunked out on the speakers after trying a fair few sets. Dali Zensor 5s suited my ears perfectly. Also bought the DAC and BT thingymabobs.


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## Fentum

Shiny said:


> Lesson one. Never set a budget :lol:
> 
> After spending the afternoon in Richer Sounds, I'm now in a pub in Bath sipping on a Birra Moretti, somewhat poorer.
> 
> Went for Cambridge Audio Topaz AM10 amp but spunked out on the speakers after trying a fair few sets. Dali Zensor 5s suited my ears perfectly. Also bought the DAC and BT thingymabobs.


:lol:

Top man maths skills at play?

The Moretti is to fortify you before explaining to senior management how you set out with a finite budget  and returned with expenditure (n to the power 4)?

We've all been there.

It's one of the reasons I still play LPs as it's easier to smuggle new cartridges into the house than other bits of hifi:thumb:

Peter


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## Shiny

The senior management was sat next to me :lol:

I think she had one those “f*** it” moments and insisted I bought the more expensive speakers as I liked them the best. 

Funny thing was, I planned to build a pc for Christmas and the management said “no, you’re not spending that much money” and then subsequently authorises an audio upgrade at a higher hit on the annual profits!


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## Shiny

Any recommendations on speaker cable & speaker jacks? 

I need to measure how many metres i need, but at varying prices between £5 and £14 a metre, i'm sure there are better deals to be had than Richer Sounds had on offer.


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## Fentum

Shiny said:


> Any recommendations on speaker cable & speaker jacks?
> 
> I need to measure how many metres i need, but at varying prices between £5 and £14 a metre, i'm sure there are better deals to be had than Richer Sounds had on offer.


There is a lot of woo-woo with speaker cables. Mainly an excuse to part the gullible from loads of cash.

How handy are you with a soldering iron? I think Maplins will sell you speaker jacks quite cheaply (get gold plated as they don't tarnish). Or you can find examples with screw terminals.

As for cable, nothing wrong with bog standard thick twin and earth copper cable (10MM² if you can find it, or 6MM²). Just tape or cut off the earth so you don't short it.

If you really want speaker cable, van damme cable - http://www.vdctrading.com/shop/van-...peaker-2-x-400mm-directional-hi-fi-per-metre/ - is the brand the recording studios use and it is a fraction of the cost of audiophile stuff. If it is good enough to do the recording, I'd argue it's good enough for playback! On the whole a thicker cable will perform better than a thinner one.

HTH

P


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## Shiny

Top stuff yet again! For the Van Damme, will i need to go as large as 2x4.0mm or will the 2x1.5mm or 2x2.5mm be more suitable for home hifi as the link suggests?

It will have to be screw jacks, i even managed to melt the mains cable last time i tried my hand at soldering! lol


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## Fentum

Shiny said:


> Top stuff yet again! For the Van Damme, will i need to go as large as 2x4.0mm or will the 2x1.5mm or 2x2.5mm be more suitable for home hifi as the link suggests?
> 
> It will have to be screw jacks, i even managed to melt the mains cable last time i tried my hand at soldering! lol


I'd consult senior management re aesthetics but the thicker the better IMHO. (I've had cables thick as a girl's wrist in the past but 'er indoors is not allowed to comment on the contents of the man cave, in the same way that I'm not allowed to "adjust" the archaeology of her, ahem, filing system in the home office.)

But any difference will be marginal.

Top tip - always buy a couple of metres per length extra so can adjust decor etc without having to buy more cable.

Peter


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## Shiny

The senior management is not keen on cables at all. My other worry is being able to connect them up if they are too thick!

I'm guessing the 2x2.5mm will be a similar size to a normal TV coaxial cable? Certainly wouldn't be able to go any bigger than that, she would prefer slightly smaller if possible.


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## Fentum

Shiny said:


> The senior management is not keen on cables at all. My other worry is being able to connect them up if they are too thick!
> 
> I'm guessing the 2x2.5mm will be a similar size to a normal TV coaxial cable? Certainly wouldn't be able to go any bigger than that, she would prefer slightly smaller if possible.


Lloyd,

You can go thinner and there are even flat cables e.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fisual-Profile-Flat-Speaker-Cable/dp/B0013ND42O that you can run under carpets (but I've only ever had quite costly stuff. I don't know how good this Fisual stuff is but it looks ok).

I'm guessing from your soldering comment that you are not very handy because hiding most of the cable in the wall with faceplates at hifi and speaker ends is probably the most aesthetically pleasing option.

Alternatively, what kind of floor do you have? Or what gap between the skirting board and floor?

If you can lift the boards, one option might be to run cable under the floor and pop it out inconspicuously at either end.

Or get a small enough diameter cable to tuck it into the skirting gap (I'd guess 2.5 would be a tad too big?).

Peter


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## steelghost

I run that exact cable (or something very similar) under my carpet (not under the floorboards. There is a slight "hump" if you know where to look, but it's much better than the alternative.


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## Shiny

I've channelled in endless sockets in our house and plastered to a reasonable finish, including the sky cable and aerials etc, but ask me to solder and expect a mess! :lol:

It's an old end terraced house, but the ground floor has been concreted. The cable will most likely be tucked under the carpet along the edging gripper, i've found that the best place in the past with cat5 cables and the like. The speakers are most likely going to be on the same side of the room, so i won't need to run a cable across the room under the carpet.

Oh decisions decisions...:lol:


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## Shiny

Ah, just read the reviews on the Fisual, i'd need one to bend, speakers are most likely going either side of the fireplace (not used).


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## C-Max

I used a speaker Cable years ago under the carpet called Qed 79 Flat Strand. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fentum

Shiny said:


> I've channelled in endless sockets in our house and plastered to a reasonable finish, including the sky cable and aerials etc, but ask me to solder and expect a mess! :lol:
> 
> It's an old end terraced house, but the ground floor has been concreted. The cable will most likely be tucked under the carpet along the edging gripper, i've found that the best place in the past with cat5 cables and the like. The speakers are most likely going to be on the same side of the room, so i won't need to run a cable across the room under the carpet.
> 
> Oh decisions decisions...:lol:


Come on. No excuses. Out with the chisel!

OTH, if you want flexible and flat, here's the badger!

https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/soundlab...xible-flat-4-core-blue-priced-per-metre-xs85g

P


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## Shiny

Fentum said:


> Come on. No excuses. Out with the chisel!
> 
> OTH, if you want flexible and flat, here's the badger!
> 
> https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/soundlab...xible-flat-4-core-blue-priced-per-metre-xs85g
> 
> P


You reckon that will do the job then? If so, i'll go with that.

I don't really want scrimp on the cable after spending so much on the speakers, but on the other hand i don't want to spend a fortune on a what it essentially a bit of wire in a plastic sleeve! :lol:


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## Fentum

Shiny said:


> You reckon that will do the job then? If so, i'll go with that.
> 
> I don't really want scrimp on the cable after spending so much on the speakers, but on the other hand i don't want to spend a fortune on a what it essentially a bit of wire in a plastic sleeve! :lol:


It's a compromise but I'm sure it'll do. Too thin and it will affect the bass (a bit) but it looks good enough to me.

You can always leave a search on eBay to see if you can snag some bargain exotic "rolled on the thigh of a blind Cuban virgin during the congruence of a full moon and the vernal equinox in a leap year" stuff at a later date, but I'd live with what you buy first. Most cable sales guff is exactly that.

And unless the acoustics in the listening room are spot on, it's all a bit of a compromise anyway.

Enjoy!

Peter


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## Shiny

Yeah true, i'll think ill probably end up going for this -

http://www.vdctrading.com/shop/van-...peaker-2-x-250mm-directional-hi-fi-per-metre/

And maybe a 4xblack/4xred of these (looks like there is a screw on the back rather than solder?)

http://www.vdctrading.com/shop/conn...-damme-spade-banana/vdc-gold-banana-plug-red/


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## Tricky Red

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasi...2059962&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=sewell+deadbolt

Nothing wrong with these for banana plugs if the internal diameter is adequate


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## Shiny

One last question (or maybe not  ), i was just reading somewhere on the intermaweb that it is better to use the cable/thumb screws rather than banana plugs, especially if not moving things around.

Is that the case, or am i better off with banana plugs?


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## Tricky Red

Shiny said:


> One last question (or maybe not  ), i was just reading somewhere on the intermaweb that it is better to use the cable/thumb screws rather than banana plugs, especially if not moving things around.
> 
> Is that the case, or am i better off with banana plugs?


I used to bare wire and bi-wire my speaker terminals but it is a pain in the backside. I fitted banana plugs a few weeks ago and it made everything much easier.

Up to you to decide of course.

With this cable

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0067LD030/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Fentum

Shiny said:


> One last question (or maybe not  ), i was just reading somewhere on the intermaweb that it is better to use the cable/thumb screws rather than banana plugs, especially if not moving things around.
> 
> Is that the case, or am i better off with banana plugs?


IMHO absolutely not!

If you get jacketed plugs (and perhaps heat shrink them) then:

i. the chances of having a short with a stray wire diminishes;

ii. also exposed copper tarnishes quickly; and

iii. unless you have perfect eyesight, distinguishing + and - from the cable can be a pain.

Just make sure the physical connections are sound.

Peter


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## Tykebike

Shiny said:


> You reckon that will do the job then? If so, i'll go with that.
> 
> I don't really want scrimp on the cable after spending so much on the speakers, but on the other hand i don't want to spend a fortune on a what it essentially a bit of wire in a plastic sleeve! :lol:


Thats a bit like saying I don't want to spend a fortune on (insert favourite brand here) wax as it is essentially a candle in a tub!


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## BigJimmyBovine

Oh man, I wish I hadn't been keeping watch on this thread! 

Think my amp died yesterday, at volumes considerate to the neighbours I get nothing out the right hand speaker, turn it up and it comes back. Been considering a new one for a while but this may have forced my hand just before Christmas, now I just need to go through and re-read everyone's suggestions.


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## Shiny

Tykebike said:


> Thats a bit like saying I don't want to spend a fortune on (insert favourite brand here) wax as it is essentially a candle in a tub!


That's a great analogy, although probably not quite how you intended. You can spend £200+ on a tub of wax that is rich with marketing, hype and herd mentality when a £30 wax can do a better job without the label. Then there is the likes of Collinite, may not be quite so pretty, but offers almost unrivalled protection for £15. Ultimately they are all waxes you bung on the car and you don't need to spend top dollar to get the best for your needs.



BigJimmyBovine said:


> Oh man, I wish I hadn't been keeping watch on this thread!
> 
> Think my amp died yesterday, at volumes considerate to the neighbours I get nothing out the right hand speaker, turn it up and it comes back. Been considering a new one for a while but this may have forced my hand just before Christmas, now I just need to go through and re-read everyone's suggestions.


:lol: I feel kind of guilty now. It's a forum curse, same seems to happen with my car on the owners club.

If it helps, I went for the Cambridge Topaz AM10, it's a budget amp at £179 but had some cracking reviews. Not tried it at home yet, but I'm sure it will more than suit my needs, has a phono input, may not be the loudest but will be more than enough for the living room!

As for the cables, it was a toss up between the VD flat or blue studio. We have an old end terraced house with the living room and dining room partially separated by an arch. I asked the missus where things are going to go and she wants the speakers either side of the arch. She's not keen running a cable all round the room or under the carpet and wants it to go up the corner of the wall and under the ceiling coving. So this means white cable lol!

So I've settled for Fisual S-Flex 2.5mm (£2.35 per m with free postage) with Fisual banana plugs. Was reading up on the Sewell Deadbolt banana plugs but they aren't currently for sale in the UK.

I then mentioned a rack to her and two days of googling commenced. I would have been happy with a £50 glass rack, but no, it has to match the rest of the furniture!


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## BigJimmyBovine

Did you have a listen to the Onkyo A9010 while you were choosing? It's one that I'm considering based on its reviews and wondered how it compared to the Cambridge Audio you chose.

Everything else I need I have already although I could do with replacing my Wharfedale Diamond 9.1s, be a shame to not give new amp some new speakers!


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## Shiny

I did, from both cd and hi-def streamer, AM10 just pinched it for me. I’m getting old though :lol:, so losing higher frequencies and hearing more bass, so I guess we will all hear things differently.


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## tommyboy40

I would also agree with Peter 100%. Most of what you buy today is Junk and won't last 10 years. I run an AV hire company and we still use some older equipment as it can be more reliable. If you are a Mac/iPhone user then there is another option for streaming - Airport express will extend wifi range and also has a minijack for audio out. When I upgraded my system to cater for new technology I was faced with the problem of integrating my new tech with my old. Have a look at this thread http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=362856


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## RaceGlazer

djberney said:


> Salesmen, even at Richer, can be swayed by what they have in stock or want to get rid of.


Been a big fan of Richer since their first shop opened on London Bridge but once went upstairs for the loo and saw signs there saying 'SWYG' - 'sell what you've got'. Not the upgrade or stock due in next week.

I've been meaning to recommission my Dual CS505 - cartridge got lost, any recommendations ? Playing through vintage 3-way Wharfedales and new Marantz amp. (also got matching CD, both excellent kit)


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## Fentum

RaceGlazer said:


> Been a big fan of Richer since their first shop opened on London Bridge but once went upstairs for the loo and saw signs there saying 'SWYG' - 'sell what you've got'. Not the upgrade or stock due in next week.
> 
> I've been meaning to recommission my Dual CS505 - cartridge got lost, any recommendations ? Playing through vintage 3-way Wharfedales and new Marantz amp. (also got matching CD, both excellent kit)


RaceGlazer,

Sorry, before I can help with the answer to the cartridge question, please clarify which mark of the CS505? They all had different cartridges, I'm afraid. Some need a half-inch adaptor to mount them and some don't. IIRC there were four generations after the CS505 itself.

The good news is that the CS505 mates with a nice range of affordable cartridges.

I know, I'm a dweeb!

Peter


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## Fentum

BigJimmyBovine said:


> Everything else I need I have already although I could do with replacing my Wharfedale Diamond 9.1s, be a shame to not give new amp some new speakers!


BigJimmy,

What are you trying to fix re the speakers?

Please don't assume you need new speakers! So few modern speakers are any kind of match for the older ones.

These Diamonds were the mutt's nutts a decade ago for budget speakers. Kevlar drivers etc.

IMHO focus on the amp.

I'd listen (perhaps take the speakers in with you for the test) before buying. You'd need to be spending quite a lot before you find better (rather than different) than the Wharfedales.

With the saved money, a more powerful amp would in most cases make more of a difference as they would drive the speakers more easily.

For maintenance/buff up, check that the rubber around the cones has not perished and perhaps run some contact cleaner over the speaker posts and crossovers. Tighten the screws/bolts of the speaker units themselves and run the vacuum crevice tool at lowest power over the speaker units (at almost parallel level with the unit with an old stocking over the top).

Peter


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## BigJimmyBovine

Fentum, 

Was more a joke regarding spending money on an amp and wanting something new to go with it than an actual desire to replace, the only thing wrong with them is the Mrs doesn't like the dark wood finish!

I'll take your advice regarding giving the speakers a freshen up though, it's been a while since I had the grills off to check underneath. The new amp probably won't be happening until the new year, I've got a Marantz CD player I don't use anymore to sell first which may up the budget a little too

Thanks for the advice, James


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## Shiny

Just want to say a massive thanks for everyone's help here, especially Fentum.

Set everything up Christmas day and my am i impressed!

On the down side, the Dual record deck sounded very very muffled and then the missus said "what's that burning smell?", so it was quickly unplugged and sent back to the garage for investigation another day, no real loss at the moment at the vinyl is still in the loft and there is no where to put it downstairs.

I've had a laptop sitting around for a couple of years as it is so slow, but i've hooked this up to the DAC via USB and it works an absolute treat. Downloaded Foobar2000 to the laptop and installed the Monkeymote app on my iphone, so i can control Foobar from the phone, which is pretty awesome. Even MP3s sound great played from the laptop. Plan is to get an external HDD and stick everything on there and burn my CD collection as FLAC and replace what MP3s i can.

The Bluetooth works great too, so can play from any phone etc in the house.

The CD player, despite being over 30 years old, is also working a treat.

Got to get a slightly longer USB to the laptop, then i'll do a bit of cable management as t is a bit messy at the moment.

Bought a nice cabinet to keep it all in and I have space to slip the laptop on the bottom shelf so it is out of the way (missus doesn't want it on display).

The Dali's are aresome. We have an arch between the living room & dining room and we decided to place them one each side of the arch. We can then turn the speakers to point in either room as needed. Speakers say they need a 100 hr bed in, so i've not pushed them, but I am so pleased with how they sound now they are set up in the home.

A couple of pictures.


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## Shiny

Treated myself to a new addition yesterday...

I'd forgotten just how arousing it is lowering a weighted arm down onto some vinyl.

Reliving the 80s/90s


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## BigJimmyBovine

Nice, I've not managed to convince the wife that the L.P. player needs upgrading yet.

I eventually replaced my amp after the old one had the case go live then last month changed the speakers and stands, such a clear difference.


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## Shiny

I was a bit fortunate. The missus has an old LP in the loft she wants to play and has been nagging me to get a turntable! I was going to hold off as I wanted the P3 and it is quite pricey, but she insisted i just get on with it!

That's got to be a first! lol.


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## Shiny

Bit of a bump on this thread, with Christmas coming up, my missus has asked if there is anything i want. Well in truth there is loads, but all cost a small fortune, but i was reading good things about phono stages, in particular the Rega Fono MM - http://www.rega.co.uk/fono-mm-1.html

1st question, has anyone gone from built in phono stage in an amp to a dedicated stage and realistically did it make much difference? i.e. will my system sound £200 better when playing vinyl?

2nd question, the Cambridge Audio Amp is probably my weakest link now, but no immediate plans to change it yet. Current connections (from memory) are -

- Rega 3 deck into the phono 
- DAC into Aux (i think the CD and Laptop plug into the AUX)
- can't remember where the BT went, but i think was also to the DAC

I'm sure i'm right i'm thinking that the Aux, CD and Tuner are all the same, just that they correlate with what is on the display.The phono being different as it is amplified. If i get the Rega Fono MM, then i can plug it into the CD slot on the amp (or plug it into the aux and plug the DAC into the CD)?


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## AnthonyUK

Shiny said:


> Bit of a bump on this thread, with Christmas coming up, my missus has asked if there is anything i want. Well in truth there is loads, but all cost a small fortune, but i was reading good things about phono stages, in particular the Rega Fono MM - http://www.rega.co.uk/fono-mm-1.html
> 
> 1st question, has anyone gone from built in phono stage in an amp to a dedicated stage and realistically did it make much difference? i.e. will my system sound £200 better when playing vinyl?
> 
> 2nd question, the Cambridge Audio Amp is probably my weakest link now, but no immediate plans to change it yet. Current connections (from memory) are -
> 
> - Rega 3 deck into the phono
> - DAC into Aux (i think the CD and Laptop plug into the AUX)
> - can't remember where the BT went, but i think was also to the DAC
> 
> I'm sure i'm right i'm thinking that the Aux, CD and Tuner are all the same, just that they correlate with what is on the display.The phono being different as it is amplified. If i get the Rega Fono MM, then i can plug it into the CD slot on the amp (or plug it into the aux and plug the DAC into the CD)?


Sorry I haven't followed the thread but have you upgraded anything on the RP3 as if not that £200 would be better spent elsewhere as your amp is already OK. 
Subplatter on the RP3 would be best bang for buck if happy with the cartridge.

If you did use an external phono stage then yes, any other input at line level would be ok.


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## Shiny

The RP3 is at it came with the Elys2 MM cartridge.

I've just googled the subplatter, I'm quite amazed that that changing it may make such a difference to the soundstage. Are there any recommended ones to purchase and is it easy to change? All the links i clicked looked a bit DIY.

I'm happy to spend £50 odd on a subplatter and £200 on the Rega Fono if that means a fresh "crispness" (if that is the right word) would be achieved with the two. Don't get me wrong, it sounds awesome, but i just feel that the vinyl could sound a little better.


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## AnthonyUK

Shiny said:


> The RP3 is at it came with the Elys2 MM cartridge.
> 
> I've just googled the subplatter, I'm quite amazed that that changing it may make such a difference to the soundstage. Are there any recommended ones to purchase and is it easy to change? All the links i clicked looked a bit DIY.
> 
> I'm happy to spend £50 odd on a subplatter and £200 on the Rega Fono if that means a fresh "crispness" (if that is the right word) would be achieved with the two. Don't get me wrong, it sounds awesome, but i just feel that the vinyl could sound a little better.


The top two choices would be -

Tangospinner or

Groovetracer

The Groovetracer is great but only marginally better than the Tangospinner and the price difference is substantial so I would go for the Tango upgrade kit e.g. Canaro if you only play 33 rpm and see how it goes.

You can buy DIY kits based on the NAIM Soundstage if building a kit is your thing which would offer great VFM.

Or this is well regarded if a little fiddly -






Be careful about chasing your tail and not enjoying what you have. This is especially important with vinyl I find as you have to learn to love the imperfections.
This is not great for anyone with even a hint of OCD


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## Shiny

It will have be to plug and play for me, i'm at the age where i've given up taking things apart or messing with things as i just end up breaking them.

To be honest, spending $200+ on a bit of machined aluninium looks like that has a lot of audiophille tax on it to me, especially when the websites look as dodgy as. The ones from Fidelity Designs look better priced and are in the UK, but again the website also looks dodgy and like someone is making them in their shed. I'd rather play it safe and buy something official, if that makes sense, but i guess that doesn't really exist and you want all the fancy bits on a Rega you fork out for a RP6.

My vinyl has character, played on an Aiwa deck (or my dad's Dual) back in the 80's, and has been in the loft for near on 30 years. My youngest doesn't quite get the attraction in crackles and hisses! Don;t get me wrong, I love my current set up, but just feel that perhaps the vinly and system has a bit more to give. 

45rpm is a must, i have a few singles (7, 10 and 12") and some of my LPs are actually played at 45rpm.


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## AnthonyUK

In that case there is the option with the dual speed fitting with single belt rather than dual belts.


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## Shiny

Would this be a cheaper (no doubt less effective) but viable alternative? http://srm-tech.co.uk/epages/4c0089...23-2265-416e-a207-cc9dd8b06028/Products/RSDK1


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## bigcarpchaser

Rega mini phono stage is ok for less than £100.
There’s another from Edwards Audio think that’ll do a job for around £90


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Shiny

I was originally looking at the Mini as it has the usb output so you can record on a laptop using audacity etc. But I then read a thread posted by some who upgraded from the Mini to the Fono and said the difference was amazing, which made me look more towards the Fono.


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## bigcarpchaser

I wouldn’t say you get what you pay for when it comes to audio equipment as that plainly isn’t true but if you have a high end turntable you’d probably benefit from a more expensive phono stage. 
I had one of these little rega ones and on my project carbon standard player it was fine. When I upgraded some bits and bobs I ended up with a musical fidelity amp with built in phono and couldn’t tell the difference lol.
Biggest change was the cartridge, that made an improvement.
I’d probably be scouring eBay and that used hifi site for something better but cheap. Loads of people sell on stuff for the next big thing. Hardly any of my stuff was new, either ex demo or used and saved a fortune. 
I keep looking for a nice Luxman amp but haven’t found one yet, not that I can justify buying anyway  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tykebike

I don't know about the effectiveness of a different subplatter on performance but really it all boils down to how wide your smile is when the record (sorry vinyl) is playing. 
You may find the reviews sections of HiFi World and HiFi News interesting but sit down with the smelling salts before you see the prices!
One thing often goes unsaid is that we all have different ears and hence hearing. I have thousands of pounds worth of hifi and fifty bob ears but I'm happy!
One thing that I would strongly recommend is to invest in a record cleaner, something like the Knosti Disco Antistat or the Spin Clean Record Washer mk2 with a final rinse of distilled or dionised water. This will remove a lot of the dust and junk on old records and also on new records; just leave them to air dry before playing.
Some of the new audiophile recordings of old LP's especially the ones from the original master tapes and the ones recorded at half speed by someone like Kevin Gray are outstanding. These are usually on heavy weight 180gm or 200gm vinyl.


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## RS3

Sold my NAD amp, cassette and CD 20 years ago:wall:. It was pretty old gear then and ive had at least 5 or 6 amps since and nothing has ever given the warmth of sound that I had.
I changed stuff in the past to make it more compatible with newer auxilliaries and to have newer features and more power to drive larger speakers but I always knew I was sacrificing the sound of a well balanced system.
If you just wanna hear records, keep it simple and don't chuck good, old HiFi gear but indeed, get it serviced.:thumb:


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## AndyN01

I'm very late to this thread and it's been a fascinating read.

Just a couple of links to add:

Russ Andrews.

I had the pleasure of visiting their premises before they moved from the Lake District. Could have spent hours there and the love and enthusiasm for their craft was palpable.

The listening room was incredible - the differences with "sensibility" priced kit (much like the Dual/NAD etc. already mentioned) with various supports, interconnects and speaker cable was clear to hear. Very much like detailing, it's YOUR ears with YOUR music and the sound that YOU like that's important. Plenty of good background stuff to read on these long, dark nights.

https://www.russandrews.com/

And for those that like older stuff a trip to Leicester is worthwhile.

We bought our speakers from there. It's a house full of the most incredible stuff and the guy is a true enthusiast with vast knowledge and experience. Remind you of anything :wave:.

http://www.classiquesounds.co.uk/

And one I haven't been on for a while but worth a look:

https://www.vinylengine.com/

Happy listening.

Andy.


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## Tykebike

Andy, have Russ Andrews moved from the Lake District? Their website shows the address is still in Kendal.


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## Shiny

I bought a Spin Clean when i bought the RP3, astounding price though for what it is :doublesho:lol:. It is quite incredible how much dirt and dust made it through the sleeve and inner sleeve being sat up in loft for so many years. It's down there on the bottom shelf of the records.










I do like the new heavyweight vinyl, i'm a bit selective with purchases though, only buying stuff i really want that i don't have already or a special release, such as Rush's 2112 :argie:

Loving some of the effects too, easily pleased -










We've got an AudioT a 15 min walk away, I may contact them after lockdown to see if they can set a quick demo with and without the Fono on an RP3 with an equivalent amp, worth a punt i guess.


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## AnthonyUK

Shiny said:


> Would this be a cheaper (no doubt less effective) but viable alternative? http://srm-tech.co.uk/epages/4c0089...23-2265-416e-a207-cc9dd8b06028/Products/RSDK1


I doubt it tbh. The subplatters are also bearing spindle replacements. 
The bottom of the spindle bearing also sits on a ball bearing which is replaced with a ceramic one to further lower the noise transmitted through the platter.


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## AndyN01

Tykebike said:


> Andy, have Russ Andrews moved from the Lake District? Their website shows the address is still in Kendal.


It was 20 years ago . I do remember going back to the address a couple of years later and they'd moved. Maybe they've moved back?

Regardless, I had a great time and I still lust after some of their products :thumb:

Andy.


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## Tykebike

Don't forget to put your clean records in a decent inner sleeve HDPE from the likes of Mofi or Nagaoka.
If you are still thinking of a phono stage have a look at Graham Slee's moving magnet range https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com. If you join the forum you can get a loaner to try at home. I had the Gramamp 2 then moved up to the Era V (second hand) and then added an Elevator (again second hand) when I upgraded to a moving coil cartridge. I also had the Era V upgraded with a switch to enable true mono reproduction instead of just relying on stereo.
You won't find too many reviews in the popular hifi press but when you do they are generally very complimentary. If you ask Graham or his partner John about this you will get a very insightful answer!
Ive just been on the forum and there is a new post regarding a phono stage for someone with the same P3/Elys 2 as yourself: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/seeking-advice_topic5089.html


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## Shiny

Oh my, 50p a sleeve! That's £250 on the on LP's and 12"s alone. I may have to make that a gradual thing over time :lol:


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## Tykebike

Yes that's what I do, little by little.


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