# Advice on progression



## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

I bought my first dslr camera a canon 1100D in january this year.

I enjoy taking the pictures and the thrill of getting good shots however i feel i could do with progressing to a better camera.

What would be a natural progression from the 1100D? Iv been looking at 600D as wanting to stay with canon for the simple fact i already have 2 lenses.

Thanks


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Why do you think the camera is holding you back?

Without sounding rude. Ultimately, unless you're some absolutely brilliant natural talent, it's not.


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

Image quality??


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## Edward101 (Jun 5, 2009)

Moving on to a full frame sensored DSLR is a nice step, not too sure on the canons which models are full frame as I'm a Nikon man myself when not using my film cameras. Moving from the cropped sensors to a full frame is a big step in quality and detail. But obviously it all depends on your budget.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Nope, in theory (more megapixels = better IQ) the 600D will. In reality its neither here nor there.

These are both from an 1100D and with the 55-250 lens.

 Esteban Gutierrez (GP España) by agarca, on Flickr 

 Fernando Alonso (GP España) by agarca, on Flickr


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## Ben. (Sep 7, 2009)

What lenses do you have, and what kind of photography do you do?

Unless you need to be shooting at a high ISO a lot then it might be worth sticking with the 1100D and really pushing it with some top quality L glass in-front of it.


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

I have the basics 18-55mm and a 55-250mm both canon lenses, i generally do Motorsport events and then obviously still shots at car shows, if it means sticking with the 1100D I'm happy with that just after advice on what the next step would be.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

I have an Eos 350d and looking to go for Eos60d or 7d next but good lens makes big difference I took better pics on my old Eos10 35mm as had good lens that why I'm trading up now


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Practice practice practice is the next step.

How many events/outings have you been to and how many shots have you taken?

Spend money on books and tuition to improve your own ability and knowledge before changing the equipment.


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

m1pui said:


> Practice practice practice is the next step.
> 
> How many events/outings have you been to and how many shots have you taken?
> 
> Spend money on books and tuition to improve your own ability and knowledge before changing the equipment.


I have taken around 2500-3000 shots on about 10-15 outings.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Got any links to your galleries/albums?

Edit:
Do you feel like you can identify any mistakes/weaknesses in your shots and do you learn how to rectify them?


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

What I'm trying to say is that, in the nicest possible way, your ability will run out before the camera at this point. You could spend thousands on full frame bodies & L lenses tomorrow, and still not see any difference in quality of your shots.

It took ages before I settled with my first DSLR. For a long time after getting it, I would leave it at home in place of my Canon S3iS superzoom/bridge camera because I could take infinitely better photos with it.

This was one of the first pictures I took with my 350D (8mp entry level model back in 2005/2006) and a Sigma 18-125mm lens I picked up off eBay for about £50

IMG_0710.JPG by puihungma, on Flickr

Around the same time, I could take shots like this every day of the week with what should be a poorer quality (6mp, small sensor) bridge/superzoom camera

IMG_0930.JPG by puihungma, on Flickr

Then there's these 2, taken within a couple of nights of each other.
Canon S3iS bridge.

IMG_0170.JPG by puihungma, on Flickr

Canon 350D DSLR

IMG_0878.JPG by puihungma, on Flickr

About a year after the first photo, this was taken with the same 350D body and eBay lens.

IMG_1254 by puihungma, on Flickr

You yourself can make a lot more of an improvement to you results than buying a new body would at this stage.


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## alexj (Apr 12, 2012)

Try a 50mm 1.8 (cheap and great optically)

This will help you get more creative with depth of field

or Go on a course, get some tuition 

preferably both


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## EddieB (May 13, 2006)

Can't see any of the photos as i'm at work - but if you're gonna make the jump you need to go for a big jump IMO. Do you really wanna spend £1k on a better body to get pissed off that you still can't get that panned shot?

One thing to also bare in mind is - again no point in having something like a 7D with some cheap glass on the front. 

My Sigma 120-400 cost me over £700 new and I still get ****ed off with the slow AF on it at times. 

I find my 500D more than suites my needs and I can shoot more than good enough motorsport shots using it. 

If I were you i'd get out practicing, get to as many events as possible and see what you're getting before making the jump.


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

EddieB said:


> Can't see any of the photos as i'm at work - but if you're gonna make the jump you need to go for a big jump IMO. Do you really wanna spend £1k on a better body to get pissed off that you still can't get that panned shot?
> 
> One thing to also bare in mind is - again no point in having something like a 7D with some cheap glass on the front.
> 
> ...


£1000 i wont be spending that much more £500 then whatever i got for my body


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## Andy_Wigan (Jan 4, 2008)

I think its quite hard to reply to this thread without sounding rude, so please don't take any offence. As others have said, what is it about your current camera what you find is restricting you - is it the gear or you?

I started off (and have still got) a Nikon D5000. A pretty basic starter DSLR and within a few months was thinking the same thing as you that if I upgraded my shots would be better but they won't be - with the exception of ISO performance etc. I stuck with the D5000 and concentrated on new lenses and my technique and my shots have improved. I now no longer feel the need to upgrade my body, and will only do so when I want to go to full frame.

If I were you, since you've only got the kit lenses, i'd look at getter some better glass before ugrading the body. Something like a 70-200 f2.8 or 300 f4 and you'l see a big improvement. Especially for motorsport.

As Eddie has said, your gonna be mega gutted if you buy a new body and get the same results. I'd seriously stick with what you've got and get out more with it and see what happens.


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

I would ask as others have why its holding you back? 

To be fair I wouldn't say image quality is holding you back but can image why an entry level SLR could hold someone up such as low frames per second if your a sports shooter. 

I suspect we all hanker after the next model up but often better glass is the way to go.


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

Ill take is a telling off then, as i am open to advice on, i just the next body up maybe a good choice to move on for better quality of image


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## Raymond Lin (Jun 29, 2012)

Motorsports takes good panning skill and if you get it right you should be fine. Most people are limited by 2 things.

ISO, you want a fast shutter speed and with a long focal length, unless you can afford some primes you are looking at f/5.6 there abouts, add on wanting to keep the shutter above certain 1/focal length you may struggle with ISO if the light is bad on a particular day.

Reach - some people want to be closer to the action, difficult when you have to be so far away. This is more a lens problem than body problem. Can always get a extender.

Personally, when I upgrade I do the whole 9 yards. I went into photography with a EOS 300 film camera but immediate know I was being held back, not by IQ...this is a film camera, but camera features so I returned it and got a EOS 30. When I went digital I got a 30D, which is what the original D30/D60/10D were based on, they are in the same semi pro range XXD.

Kept that for a few years and went to a 5Dmkii, now I have a mkiii.

So, the question is, is the bad IQ as a result of noise or as a result of bad technique? Also, a better camera doesn't equal better IQ if the glass in front of it isn't also up to standard.


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

Here some pictures iv took recently, open to advice on how to be better???


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## EddieB (May 13, 2006)

rob_vrs said:


> Ill take is a telling off then, as i am open to advice on, i just the next body up maybe a good choice to move on for better quality of image


hope my reply didn't come across as rude or aggressive... didn't mean it that way.


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

EddieB said:


> hope my reply didn't come across as rude or aggressive... didn't mean it that way.


No your fine haha, I'm a beginner and don't know the next steps, might frustrating for people who are more experienced that know more than people like me ha


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

Ill start again really haha....

Im wanting to progress and to be honest i don't know what I'm needing to get better images, with regards to myself been at fault or the equipment i have put some images up previous to this comment, advise is welcome


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

What do you think/feel is wrong with your photo's that you've posted in this thread?

Edit: it's not a trick question and I'm not trying to come across condescending. Just want to know why you don't think those pics are good enough


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## Raymond Lin (Jun 29, 2012)

Samples?


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## EddieB (May 13, 2006)

rob_vrs said:


> Ill start again really haha....
> 
> Im wanting to progress and to be honest i don't know what I'm needing to get better images, with regards to myself been at fault or the equipment i have put some images up previous to this comment, advise is welcome


Get yourself to Croft this weekend and I'll show you, let you play with my kit and see how you get on!


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

m1pui said:


> What do you think/feel is wrong with your photo's that you've posted in this thread?
> 
> Edit: it's not a trick question and I'm not trying to come across condescending. Just want to know why you don't think those pics are good enough


I don't know, they just don't seem to stand out with depth and colour, could this be down to editing after maybe?


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

EddieB said:


> Get yourself to Croft this weekend and I'll show you, let you play with my kit and see how you get on!


Wish it was a bit closer that 2 hours away or i would of took you up on that offer


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

What editing have you done and what setting do you use on the camera for shooting?

I absolutely stand by my statement that you don't need a new body, or even a lens to some extent. Possibly consider a mono-pod if you're shooting Motorsport for a little extra support, but that may not even be necessary.

All you need to do is practice and learn how to use your camera. 6 months is nothing, you'll not even have scratched the surface of its, and your, ability. Any new bodies or lenses are just going to give you more features and settings that, from what it seems like, you don't understand the use of.

Have you read any books/magazines or did you just pick up a camera and start shooting?

Go back to my post on page 1. Those Motorsport photos were taken, not by me, with the same body and lens you're using. Someone could give you £000's of pro-spec equipment tomorrow and you still might not be able to take a shot as good as those.


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## EddieB (May 13, 2006)

Aye - i'd stand by what m1pui says - I try to get to as many events as possible to shoot. Originally I focused on getting a good panned shot. Now I can shoot at 1/160th of a sec and get really good keeper rate.

Now I'm working on slowing down my shutter speed and working on composition... it will come but you have to practice **** loads.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

This might sound daft, but where do you sit and look through your shots?

Is it as soon as you load them onto your computer they lack quality or are you saying the ones you've uploaded to internet lack quality?

The pictures you've uploaded to here are all sub-100kb (some as low as 60kb) jpeg, which is nigh on phone picture message size. Many will have come out of the camera upwards of 6mb, which is 100 times as big (in terms of file size).

If you've edited and saved them that small, you've stripped a hell of a lot of data out of them


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

I'm not really very proficient at photoshop (well editing in Preview lol), but just a little bit of cropping and just playing around with colour/light levels can go a long way.

The file sizes I've pulled off your posts are really small so there's not a massive amount can be done, but it give you an idea.










Original Left : Edited Right

















There's no getting around that this isn't really in focus. If it is on your computer, it's the jpeg compression that's really softened it.

Original









This one is over-exposed ( Evo on the far left of the shot is blown out. The camera has probably metered for the grass or tarmac so the white has come out super bright as a result.

Edited









If you've got an iPhone/Android load the front facing camera up and point it at yourself sitting in front of a window. Touch focus on the window and you will/should go black as it darkens the shot to compensate for the light. Now focus on yourself and the chances are the whole screen will become white where it's over exposed trying to compensate for the dark area.

Play with the exposure (EV -/+) meter on the camera do get this right. You can invariably rescue the detail from a slightly under-exposed (too dark) shot, but if you over-expose (too bright) it there's little to nothing you can rescue from the white.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Again, this isn't my photo, but you should be able to see what I mean about under exposing slightly to retain detail and not blow out the bonnet where the sun/light reflects off.

The EV has been dropped -2/3 (If 1100D is same as 500D, press hold the AV+/- button on the rear and roll the scroll wheel 2 clicks to the left to get to -2/3 EV)


Porsche Carrera Cup Italia by osmosis.it, on Flickr


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

I've been watching this one with interest.

My advice at present would be to stick with the body/lens combination you have for the time being and concentrate on improving your photographic technique and post processing methods. If you're not already doing do, set your camera up to shoot JPEG + RAW - IMO you have to shoot RAW to get the best out of your images. 

The software for processing RAW images (Canon DPP) should be on the DVD which came with the camera, if not you can download it. There are altrnatives for RAW processing - I prefer Lightroom 4 - or you could use PhotoShop, PhotoShop Elements, ACDSee and others.

You can do so much with RAW images - if necessary get yourself a couple of larger/faster SDHC cards and shoot - shoot - shoot!

Eventually you can aspire toward a more up market camera and faster/better lenses, but upgrade the easiest component first - YOU!


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Here's some food for thought for you too
http://www.flickr.com/groups/rebelt3/


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

m1pui said:


> I'm not really very proficient at photoshop (well editing in Preview lol), but just a little bit of cropping and just playing around with colour/light levels can go a long way.
> 
> The file sizes I've pulled off your posts are really small so there's not a massive amount can be done, but it give you an idea.
> 
> ...


iv taken a look at the pictures on my laptop and they generally range between 2mb and 7mb, could the file size be so low because i uploaded them from my iphone?

forgive me for been so thick, but i have not had any training with anything to do with photography.


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

All abbreviations need to be simplified down as I am learning and for a non photographer it is hard to take in everything people are saying when i havent the foggiest haha


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

rob_vrs said:


> All abbreviations need to be simplified down as I am learning and for a non photographer it is hard to take in everything people are saying when i havent the foggiest haha


Another prime reason why you don't need to upgrade your camera yet.

What abbreviations are you talking about?

Do yourself a favour and buy a book and get learning.
Understanding Exposure - Bryan Peterson Very good book, can seem a bit daunting at first glance, but you'll keep learning from it.
The Digital Photography Book Vol:1 - Scott Kelby Easier to digest, but part of a series of books which you may or may not decide to buy later on.

If you're uploading through your phone directly to the forum then that is most definitely why they're tiny file sizes. You'd do better to sign up for something like flickr/google/etc's photo hosting option and upload to there from your computer. You can retain the original file size/quality and link your pictures into forums, make albums to show friends and a load of other things.


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

Think better leaving my pictures for personal use then, i think there not bad pictures and was just wondering what experienced people thought but seems to be more to it than that. 

I don't have time to read non work relating books atm, due assignments etc for work something for future though maybe.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

They're not bad photo's and certainly nothing that can't be overcome with time and practice. You can't expect to be taking top drawer shots as soon as you pick up a camera.

-The red arrow shots are decent. Sky and subject are well exposed and it looks like the planes are in focus.

-JTW 498C looks a bit washed out and noisy but I'm putting that down to the poor conversion when you've uploaded it.

-Pagani badge is a good capture.

-Rally cars and hill climb pics look a bit hazy and washed out, again it could be poor conversion to jpeg but you might benefit from using a UV filter on your lens. Ultimately though, they're in focus and you've got timing & shutter speed right to keep motion blur to a minimum..

- Motorcycle shots are crisp and clear. Some might prefer a bit more panning/motion to the wheelie shot, but there's nothing wrong with the actual pictures.

- Mclaren is out of focus. It half looks as though the camera has focused on the hay bales in the background.

- Evo pic is a bit over-exposed. But it's a difficult scene to get perfect anyway.

- VRS is just an uninteresting picture as a whole, that sounds harsher than it's meant to be. The car is obviously the focal point, but the background is distracting and there's nothing there to justify such a wide shot. The car has come out overly red in contrast to the rest of the picture too.

What mode setting are you using the camera on? (The dial on the top of the camera).

And if you've not got time to learn, certainly don't keep them only for personal viewing. If you're not reading and learning then your next best bet is putting images up for people to critique and *you to identify what you feel you're not getting right ask how to get past it.*


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## nichol4s (Jun 16, 2012)

YouTube video tutorials are a good watch whilst in bed and the misses is asleep, 2 books I bought were dslr for dummies and understanding exposure as mentioned above, forget upgrading for now and practice mate


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

m1pui said:


> They're not bad photo's and certainly nothing that can't be overcome with time and practice. You can't expect to be taking top drawer shots as soon as you pick up a camera.
> 
> -The red arrow shots are decent. Sky and subject are well exposed and it looks like the planes are in focus.
> 
> ...


I think just the landscape setting not gone anything custom (if you like), for the close up just used the close up setting so maybe there is a lot of room for improvement just takes time.

thank you for all your input ill take what you've said on board, and hopefully practice will make perfect.


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

nichol4s said:


> YouTube video tutorials are a good watch whilst in bed and the misses is asleep, 2 books I bought were dslr for dummies and understanding exposure as mentioned above, forget upgrading for now and practice mate


Cheers never thought of that, all my a level revision through youtube, cheers ill have a look, got a lot of work assignments to do so camera reading will have to go on back burner


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