# Unhappy at Work



## Z Benjamin Z (Jul 18, 2011)

Hi,
I'm having a bit of trouble at work and I'm in a bit of a situation. Basically I have been working for a building firm for four years of whom I completed my apperntiship with (two years ago) and became a fully qualified carpenter NVQ lvl 3 skipping a year at college to gain my NVQ lvl 2 because I got all the work done early. 
Since the term I finished my college course my boss asked if I wanted to do a degree in Construction Management so I went and enrolled myself. Now two years on, alot of hard work and a number of grades which I neve thought I would never achieve iv just started my third and maybe my final year at uni one day a week. 
A the start of the summer we were overloaded with work resulting in one of my very close friends being employed by my recommendation, he soon settled in and 5 months have passed, he asked for a pay rise as he came in on the same pay as me and was told he would get a pound an hour more. We both get under paid for our resonibilities and often have painters working for us as labourers who are earning 60-70£ more a week. I think this is slighlty unfair I know I'm 21 but if they are putting me on jobs on my own which is the case for the last couple of years surly I should be treated equally to the others? I know my tution fees are payed for but im putting in many study hours outside of work to get myself where they want me to be. 
Should I see this situation as unfair and query it with my boss who are pretty unapproachable or just leave it? Im just affraid that they would throw it in my face and say well we are paying for your uni. 
Sorry if I have bored you. 
Thanks in advance


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Ask for what you believe to be a reasonable rate for your efforts and outcomes that drives the business forward...

Don't go and say something like "well I know xxx gets paid more than me" because you will just get told to suck it up (as you should)

Most businesses pay as little as they can get away with, and they are not all bad if they are helping you with uni (inc time off etc)...but if you can demonstrate that you are doing good work, which helps the business, then yes you should ask in a calm and polite way..

:thumb:


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

Keep your head down, Get your degree then ask for more than your would like now. 

It may seem unfair but i always play the long game not the short one.

Worst case your boss says no even though you have a degree and you move on.

Cheers

PaulN


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## Z Benjamin Z (Jul 18, 2011)

Thanks yeah I dont wanna go in comparing my self to others as I want to be rewarded/payed for the efforts I make both out and inside of work usually extra hours coming in early now and again to ensure jobs are completed on time.


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## ivor (Sep 24, 2008)

stick it out get your degree then move onto another company to broaden your experience and gain more money ,One of the things I never do is discuss how much money i'm on as it can put peoples backs up and jealousy is bad thing ,as for recommending your friend hmmm I never recommend anyone even if they are the best person in the world because it's your reputation they are riding on and if they turn out to be useless it reflects badly on you


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## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

PaulN said:


> Keep your head down, Get your degree then ask for more than your would like now.
> 
> It may seem unfair but i always play the long game not the short one.
> 
> ...


Totally agree on this. I'm currently doing a course which this year my company paid for, and I could probably earn more elsewhere but I see the course as a £2.5k bonus. Once I gain the qualification I'll be looking for a rise or I'll move on.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

DMH-01 said:


> Totally agree on this. I'm currently doing a course which this year my company paid for, and I could probably earn more elsewhere but I see the course as a £2.5k bonus. Once I gain the qualification I'll be looking for a rise or I'll move on.


I'm surprised that your company hasn't got you tied in for a few years after you have completed the course...

I have a few people that I am paying ACCA or CIMA for...but they can't leave for 2 years after it's done...thought that was pretty standard tbh... 

:thumb:


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

The Cueball said:


> I'm surprised that your company hasn't got you tied in for a few years after you have completed the course...
> 
> I have a few people that I am paying ACCA or CIMA for...but they can't leave for 2 years after it's done...thought that was pretty standard tbh...
> 
> :thumb:


My mate just did a masters and was away for about 10 months paid.... He has no written obligation to stay or pay the course fees.

Ive recently been told these written contracts regarding courses are very hard to win if the person did leave before the awolled time.


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## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> I'm surprised that your company hasn't got you tied in for a few years after you have completed the course...
> 
> I have a few people that I am paying ACCA or CIMA for...but they can't leave for 2 years after it's done...thought that was pretty standard tbh...
> 
> :thumb:


There was a basic form which I got asked "would you mind signing this" which as you've mentioned was 2 years long but I never signed it and nothing has been mentioned since :thumb:



PaulN said:


> Ive recently been told these written contracts regarding courses are very hard to win if the person did leave before the awolled time.


+1 on this.


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## Z Benjamin Z (Jul 18, 2011)

Iv never signed anything of the like either so I guess I'm free after unless something crops up which I highly dout lol.


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## rds1985 (Mar 7, 2009)

DMH-01 said:


> Totally agree on this. I'm currently doing a course which this year my company paid for, and I could probably earn more elsewhere but I see the course as a £2.5k bonus. Once I gain the qualification I'll be looking for a rise or I'll move on.


Also agree strongly


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

I'm in a situation where I'm fairly unhappy at work. It's a graduate scheme which pays about 5k a year less than most other schemes and I'm beginning to question the opportunities available, is the grass greener elsewhere.

Anyways for you I'd stick it out and get your qualification and then have that discussion regarding pay. If nothing comes of it say nothing and work away till you find a more suitable job.


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## SarahAnn (Apr 6, 2011)

I would try to stick it out for now and use them to pay for your uni course etc and when you are qualified you can bring it up while looking for something else :thumb:


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## RD55 DUN (Dec 30, 2008)

Im in the same situation as you mate. Working 4 days a week and at Uni for a day.

The money i am on is rubbish for the volume of work i do, hours i work are rubbish, i am the most qualified out of my group of friends, work the most hours (45 if not at uni, they do 35), and i walk out with less money at the end of the month. I do enjoy my work to an extent, but the long hours and crap money do get me down sometimes. However on the other hand, im glad ive got a job at the moment.

Im biding my time till April, currently looking at the market and making contacts, then come april il be asking for a substantial rise.


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## bmwman (Jun 11, 2008)

when I first started my full time job at 17 I was on just £500 per month. I hated it but I stuck it out. It was a small estate agency and it was just me and the director working. The director treated me poorly, threw objects at me etc. However he taught me so much in such little time that I was able to move on and earn double the money. It took me 6 months to achieve that. 
I'm now very grateful to my first employer. Although his managment skills were unorthodox I still stay in touch and understand that it was thanks to him that I learn so much. 

Stick it out, obtain your degree and always remember that achievement is for you aswell as the company you work for. Build good bridges, put yourself in to work overtime, learn as much as you can whilst doing so, give yourself 4-6 months of hard graft. If nothing comes from it, approach your boss and have a chat. This way you would have proved within the last 4-6 months that your are an indispensable part of the time. 

Also in my experience it is equally, if not more important that your are able to work as a team and do not cause conflicts and or get involved in the politics side of the business i.e. He earns more than me etc etc. Try to get on with everyone and become part of the "inner circle" you stand more of a chance. 

Thats my opinion.


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## bjarvis2785 (Oct 4, 2008)

I'm with the other guys who think you stick it out, get the course completed and then ask.. at least then if they say no you can look around form something else with a qualification under your belt.

If you do feel the need to approach them before that though, I would just recommend you have some justification.
Whenever I've asked for more money in the past I've always built up a little justification to put forward, including things like what I've brought to the company over the previous 12 months, what work I have taken on, what big jobs I've won, etc etc 

Don't do what a colleague of mine did and simply said "I can earn more working at Tesco"
needless to say they didn't get the pay rise, they are not working at Tesco and are just left to look like a fool.


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## adlem (Jul 6, 2008)

I'd just plod on, finish your degree and then go and see them about more money as you are now qualified fully in x,y & z :thumb:


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

Isn't your degree course worth about £9K per year now?

I would count you blessings now and count the extra £10K+ you'll be earning in years to come. £1 an hour is not worth getting upset about.


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

I'll only echo the points of everyone else. I'd stick it until you qualified and the i'd look elsewhere or ask for a pay rise, how things are now, it would be hard to go find somewhere else that pay's you your wage and extra to pay for you to carry on your course imo.

Being as it's a construction company you work for do you have set wages depending on position/job/training or is everyone on different wages. In the company I sub too, you've got trainee rate, then qualified rate which is double and then supervisor rate which is a few £p/h more.

I was lucky that before I was qualified I was put on the qualified rate - but that was down to me not having the experience in time to be put forward for my NVQ assesment, (3years) but being able to do the work. I'm now qualified though


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## Z Benjamin Z (Jul 18, 2011)

Gruffs said:


> Isn't your degree course worth about £9K per year now?
> 
> I would count you blessings now and count the extra £10K+ you'll be earning in years to come. £1 an hour is not worth getting upset about.


My course is a part time one so its £1340, lol if it was 9k my boss would have a fit!



ant_s said:


> I'll only echo the points of everyone else. I'd stick it until you qualified and the i'd look elsewhere or ask for a pay rise, how things are now, it would be hard to go find somewhere else that pay's you your wage and extra to pay for you to carry on your course imo.
> 
> Being as it's a construction company you work for do you have set wages depending on position/job/training or is everyone on different wages. In the company I sub too, you've got trainee rate, then qualified rate which is double and then supervisor rate which is a few £p/h more.
> 
> I was lucky that before I was qualified I was put on the qualified rate - but that was down to me not having the experience in time to be put forward for my NVQ assesment, (3years) but being able to do the work. I'm now qualified though


Yeah we do have set rates everyone apart from us two are on a weekly rate thats painters, bricklayers and carpenters who all get the same which is unusual in the building trade.



RD55 DUN said:


> Im in the same situation as you mate. Working 4 days a week and at Uni for a day.
> 
> The money i am on is rubbish for the volume of work i do, hours i work are rubbish, i am the most qualified out of my group of friends, work the most hours (45 if not at uni, they do 35), and i walk out with less money at the end of the month. I do enjoy my work to an extent, but the long hours and crap money do get me down sometimes. However on the other hand, im glad ive got a job at the moment.
> 
> Im biding my time till April, currently looking at the market and making contacts, then come april il be asking for a substantial rise.


Thanks seems like we are in the same boat here my course is a real pain as it runs from 12noon-9pm and i have to go to work from 7:30 in the morning so its a long'ol'day and it generally leave me drained for the next day. I think im just pretty down at the moment as im always working alone even on a larger jobs. :wall:


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## RedUntilDead (Feb 10, 2009)

I think my apprenticeship as a maintenance engineer was 5 years long so that made me 21 on completion. It was standard practice to then go a year on a "probation" rate before going onto the skilled fella`s rate. This I agreed was fair and was common practice too. I was the the most qualified person in the department "on paper",but still knew fook all compared to the experienced guys.
My apprentice is due to come out of his time soon and if he was put on the same rate as me, I would deem that unfair. The useless pr*ck is still snapping my drills and taps :wall:
To be honest, if I was in your shoes and if you have a good relationship with the powers that be, I would give good solid reasons why you think you deserve a payrise and go and ask. They asked you if you would like to take a degree. They must think something of you so how could it hurt? I dont think your degree should be used against you. You could just have easily been on a higher rate of pay and then been offered the degree.
That has happened to me in the past when other members of staff have been sponsored. When I mentioned it in pay negotiations the reply was," they asked for sponsorship at the time, you didn`t so end of"
Good luck
Dont ask, dont get.


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## Z Benjamin Z (Jul 18, 2011)

RedUntilDead said:


> I think my apprenticeship as a maintenance engineer was 5 years long so that made me 21 on completion. It was standard practice to then go a year on a "probation" rate before going onto the skilled fella`s rate. This I agreed was fair and was common practice too. I was the the most qualified person in the department "on paper",but still knew fook all compared to the experienced guys.
> My apprentice is due to come out of his time soon and if he was put on the same rate as me, I would deem that unfair. The useless pr*ck is still snapping my drills and taps :wall:
> To be honest, if I was in your shoes and if you have a good relationship with the powers that be, I would give good solid reasons why you think you deserve a payrise and go and ask. They asked you if you would like to take a degree. They must think something of you so how could it hurt? I dont think your degree should be used against you. You could just have easily been on a higher rate of pay and then been offered the degree.
> That has happened to me in the past when other members of staff have been sponsored. When I mentioned it in pay negotiations the reply was," they asked for sponsorship at the time, you didn`t so end of"
> ...


If im perfectly honest i think apperntiships at the moment arent enough but as the construction industry is now getting so broken up with all these 'modern methods of construction' meaning less skilled workers can come in and get the job done quicker and therefore cheaper. I learnt all my knowledge through a recently retired colleuge (3 weeks ago retired) who had worked for the firm for 40 years! He was a great guy if im 65 and can do the things that he was doing at his age id be pretty happy, i was his appentice we got along really well i listened and done what he said usually with no problems as he explained things so well and i was willing to learn. When he retired he said i was the best apprentice he ever had, that meant alot to me and really gave me a boost in confidence but since he left all our workers are spread out as there is another shortage of staff.
He told me apprentiships were 5 years and you learnt many more aspects of carpentry like joinery, shuttering etc this sounds so much better than my how to build a studwork partition and nail on roof trusses which many people can pick up easily, luckily i did learn some joinery and had a few shuttering lessons from him as he used to be a shuttering carpenter.

My mum always used to say that line 'if you dont ask, you dont get'.


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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

Deffo stick at it for a while mate. Was in a similar position too you a few years ago, i got treated crap, under payed. Did'nt even get payed on the days when i went to college etc.
I then left and now make more than that company.

Who's laughing now!!!


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## cleancar (Sep 21, 2006)

i would be grateful for getting paid and your boss letting you do a degree, i would say your boss would think your ungrateful if you ask for more money.

As said , get your degree under your belt then ask for money.


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## Z Benjamin Z (Jul 18, 2011)

cleancar said:


> i would be grateful for getting paid and your boss letting you do a degree, i would say your boss would think your ungrateful if you ask for more money.
> 
> As said , get your degree under your belt then ask for money.


Its not nessesarily me being ungrateful for what i have its being treated fairly in the workplace. I like to think that he would see both sides to the story one being that iv been there 4 years working hard taken 3 days sick because i had ingrown toe nails that were removed nice! and never been late. On the other hand i do have my education payed for but 4.5k over 3 years isnt exactly loads for a company I work for so a little more to show they do value me would be an incentive to stay on after the degree.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Sometimes life is not fair but if i was you i would get your last year in and then 1 month later approach your boss if they have not scaled you up after you finish as they will benefit from your experience , you often find in many employer's they pay new starts more as someone else has not pushed for more play it cool as jobs are hard to get at present , doing the right thing will pay of for you in long run as you are willing to ask for opinions like know good on you


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## Z Benjamin Z (Jul 18, 2011)

Im glad i asked the question on here just hope they dont have an account a realise who it is, judging by their cars, well i could probably do a better job cleaning them with my hairy **** than they do hehe. 
Iv got to be careful how i tread as i dont want to put myself or anybody elses job at risk because of my actions and in this climate i know its hard to find a job as my mate/colleuge was out of his job for 1 n half years, lets hope things change in the near future.

Thanks for your kind words and knowlegde.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

:lol::lol::lol:

I can see from the difference in my answer why I work for myself!!!!


:lol:

hope it works out for you OP...

:thumb:


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## Z Benjamin Z (Jul 18, 2011)

lol i dont blame you mate id love to be my own boss bet you have worked hard for it aswell! More input = greater output on your behalf.


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## sean20 (Jan 17, 2011)

i was in a situation in my last job as a roofer i was self employed but i was permanently working for my dad and his business partner and my dad told me when i tirnd 21 back in march i would be untitled to pay rise as i was on the minimum wage. not suer how much a hour but it worked out as £40 a day before tax and i had to always wait for my money intil thay got payde. but the other boy that worked with us was on £50 a day and we done the same work and he was 23.

2 weeks after my birthday i questioned them and mu dad was happy to give it to me but his partner wernt as he sead im self employed im not intiteld to it. which in my opinion he was write but my argument was that the other boy gets it so why dunt i.

however i started looking for a new job and a job come up where my step dad works for a kitchen bathroom and bedroom company that just opend. the job was offerd to me as temporarily for 2 months but it was £7.50 a hour 8 hours a day and paid strait in the bank but i would still be self employed.
i took the job and now 6 months later im still there and even thou business hasn't been that grate at the shop the boss is now goin to close the shop and go into property.
when i started there was 16 people working there and now its down to 5 and im still there and my job is now perminant. i do get bad days where i think iv had enough of this and i do want my own business but i just keep my head down and get on with it to keep the money coming in so as i can save up to start my own business


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

The Cueball said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> I can see from the difference in my answer why I work for myself!!!!
> 
> ...


Tell me about it. I'm sooooo glad i'm self-employed. I'm like half way to working for myself lol.

I sub to 1 company and have done for 2 1/2 years, so work for them 5 days a week, (well the last few months has been 7 days a week) But if I want to leave early, or do extra, have a day off I can, and I always put my invoice in at the end of the week to represent that week, the amount of times i've said to my gf "well book it and put it on your invoice" although she's on the books where she work's lol.

Was talking about it earlier at work how I don't think i'd be able to work for someone now and do set hours and set day's.


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