# DoDo Lime Prime scratching the surface!?



## Phil H

I am currently sorting my bike over winter months and am in the process of polishing the plastic fairing. 
I am using my rotary with a blue spot pad and 85RD as always. I decided to try some lime prime instead of the usual hd cleanse but for some reason the LP is swirling it up again!? not seen this before.

This is the black fairing after polishing:









Application of Lime Prime with a new ***** MF pad (never had trouble with these pads)









After removing the LP
brinkman:








Camera flash:









After re polishing with 85RD (looks spot on again)

Application of HD cleanse on the other side of the same mf pad (just to test the pad)










HD removed:
Brinkman:









Camers flash:









you can obviously see the difference left by both pre wax cleaners. I havnt seen this before?

any suggestions?

Thanks


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## spitfire

Try the lime prime again on the same part to see what happens


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## RisingPower

Pad you're applying the lp is buggered on that side maybe or maybe a different microfibre you're using to take it off is knackered?


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## Mike_001

I did a black Lexus with ridiculously soft paint this week.
Also used Lime Prime but had no problems at all.


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## Refined Reflections

Only thing I can think of is Lime Prime does contain some very mild abrasives, and as such these need to be broken down, by hand its easy but it does need a little effort to do. Just a thought, as I've used LP on black honda paint and no issues.


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## GlynRS2

Lime Prime doesn't feel abrasive - I would try another applicator pad?


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## rockape

lp was used at the cornish meet on both porches dark blue. with no problems.
does seem a bit odd


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## PJS

LP shouldn't have any abrasives in it at all - it's just a chemical cleaner to remove oil residues from whichever polishing compounds you used for correction that contain them - chiefly your Meguiar's (and 3M?). Shouldn't need to use it after Menzerna - but it'll do no harm if you do.
I'd have to say it's either an application pad/removal cloth issue, unless you've got a dodgy bottle of LP for some reason or other.
As already suggested, try using a different applicator/remover and on a different panel to see if you're still getting the same result.


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## Aaran

lp does have very very light abrasiaves, even the dodo said it did 

i wonder, it looks on the application pic you went side to side, how come you have circular swirls?

perhaps it was already swirled up and the lime prime removed all the fillers from another product? just a thought


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## rubbishboy

How about doing an IPA wipe down after the 85RD and checking. The oils in it could be masking the swirls and the lime prime is then removing those oils where as the hd cleanse doesn't or leaves behind it's own that are masking them. Those swirls look circlular, but the lime prime looks to have been applied in straight lines. If it is the product the scratches will be in what ever direction the product was applied.


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## PJS

Aaran said:


> lp does have very very light abrasiaves, even the dodo said it did
> 
> i wonder, it looks on the application pic you went side to side, how come you have circular swirls?
> 
> perhaps it was already swirled up and the lime prime removed all the fillers from another product? just a thought


Just checked - seems you're right about it having some abrasion.
Good point about removing fillers - was curious about the circular marks, but presumed they were part of the removal process.


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## PhillipM

HD Cleanse has some filling ability so it may well have remasked 'em, or you got them all out this time.


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## Phil H

Thanks for the swift responses everyone. 

I did some further testing with various makes of pads and i get exactly the same results. LP leaves marks and hd cleanse doesnt. I am using a new mf cloth each time to buff off. Its very odd indeed. 

I have tried all your suggestions with no luck even doing an IPA wipe down after LP and HD-C and LP seems to be marking the paint. 

I will be trying it on the tank when i get round to it as its metal and may be a better quality finish than the plastic fairing.


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## rubbishboy

What about an IPA wipe down after the 85RD?


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## Phil H

tried that too even switched to ultrafina SE and IPA. Was all ok untill DODO LP


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## rubbishboy

So are you applying it in circles then, as the pictures are showing circular scratches, but the LP looks to have been applied in straight lines.


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## Phil H

no i'm applying it in side to side motions and buffing off side to side etc as i normally do 
yes they look like circular swirls god knows why but in the flesh you can see side to side marks when using LP


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## rubbishboy

What about trying a damp foam applicator instead of the MF one.


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## PJS

But the photo on the previous page clearly shows circular marks.
Leave it for tonight, wash the pads/cloths with a liquid detergent, and give them a second full rinse cycle.
Make sure the WM is already clean of fluff and hairs, etc before washing the MFs.
Tumble on low or a short while on whatever temp the dryer has, and leave slightly damp.
Stick in hotpress overnight, and try again tomorrow and see what the results are like then.

Might be worth PMing dodo factory here and pointing them to this thread for their advice or see if they'll send a replacement bottle in case the one you have is somehow not up to spec. - which they'd probably want back to check it and find out why/how/etc.


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## Phil H

rubbishboy said:


> What about trying a damp foam applicator instead of the MF one.


will try it tomorrow with a foam pad cheers.

@PJS - the swirls are a mystery to me as i do not have swirls after machine polishing and IPA wipe down. I am using brand new mf pads aswell as washed ones (also different makes of pads) I will pm DODO.

Thanks again


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## PhillipM

IPA won't always remove all filling oils, its not a hugely strong solvent, all I can think is happening is the very fine abrasives in LP are lifting the oils out of the swirls and the solvent in LP is then taking it away when buffed off?


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## Aaran

tried it on a cd shiny side and seen if it scratches that??


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## Wozza

Do a 50/50 on the panel and see what happens.


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## Refined Reflections

HD Cleanse is full of fillers and oils, just ask Clark.

As I said I'd put money on you not working Lime Prime to break down the fine abrasives.


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## V3polo6n2

Does the 85rd contains fillers and LP is removing them?

LP could be a stronger cleaner than HD-cleanse?


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## Aaran

any polish that contains oils/wax as a lube (megs/menz etc) have some degree of filling due to the oils in them. go check the polish drop back thread thats going on atm.

only way to make sure your working the finish properly is to wipe each area with an IPA wipe afterwwards to remove them all.

cheers


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## Phil H

thanks again guys.

I tried again on my seat pod today (black plastic) and had the same results 

I'm hoping its what Gary (RR) says i.e. not breaking it down enough. But i am using / applying it like i would HD-C maybe this is wrong....on certain surfaces..? I wonder if Swissvax cleaner fluid is the same?

Anyway...

This is my seat pod after a wash and clay:

























Using a blue spot pad and 85RD i polished untill near dam it perfection. Not got a pic of this.

DODO LP applied in straight lines using a foam pad this time as suggested:









buffed off: This does look like circular swirls but they do go in lines, the brinkman pics it up like circles :s









IPA wipe down after DODO LP









Polished again with 85RD









IPA after 85RD









HD-C applied with foam pad side to side:









buffed off:









IPA after HD-C









It is a strange one. When i do my metal tank i will apply LP via a blue spot pad as Gary suggests and break it down. I will do half by hand aswell.


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## WHIZZER

Im pretty sure Dom is away until mid dec so you might not get anything back from a pm until then


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## 7MAT

WHIZZER said:


> Im pretty sure Dom is away until mid dec so you might not get anything back from a pm until then


Yes Dom is away on holiday till Friday 14th December.


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## SimonW

I think i'll stop using it until we get some clear answers as the test seems to be very conclusive!


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## Jakedoodles

Drop PJ a mail. He emailed me this morning. He's on [email protected]


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## tdm

well i recieved a bottle of lime prime over the weekend and tried it out on a car today and was very impressed, definatly didnt see any swirling as aresult of using it and i did check carefuly.

then i saw this thread and thought i would test it myself on a scrap panel, i too tested it against hd cleanse. i applied them both in the same manner, other than i worked the lp longer to break down the abrasives. i used the same applicator and cloth to buff off.

under the halogen lp had definatly left some swirling but hdc looked fine. under a diferent light they had both left swirling but hdc to a lesser degree. now some of this is definatly down to a dirty mf ect, but the lp was worse.

now my test was hardly scientific, but i do feel its worth looking into by those using this product.


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## richie.guy

Hmm, i may try this at the weekend to see what i think.

Only used it on wheels thus far.


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## Phil H

tdm said:


> well i recieved a bottle of lime prime over the weekend and tried it out on a car today and was very impressed, definatly didnt see any swirling as aresult of using it and i did check carefuly.
> 
> then i saw this thread and thought i would test it myself on a scrap panel, i too tested it against hd cleanse. i applied them both in the same manner, other than i worked the lp longer to break down the abrasives. i used the same applicator and cloth to buff off.
> 
> under the halogen lp had definatly left some swirling but hdc looked fine. under a diferent light they had both left swirling but hdc to a lesser degree. now some of this is definatly down to a dirty mf ect, but the lp was worse.
> 
> now my test was hardly scientific, but i do feel its worth looking into by those using this product.


interesting...how did you apply both products? hand or machine? in some ways i'm glad you got swirling as it may not just be me.


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## Coxy914

From what I know (and what Gary has said), the Lime Prime has micro abrasives and needs to be worked more for them to break down. I've used Lime prime on everything from hard Audi/BMW paint to soft Yankee Ford paint. I did notice a similar finish when I was doing a black mustang the other week so I carried on working the Lime Prime till the micro abrasives had broken down and was left with a mirror finish ready for wax. 
My personal thought is that the micro abrasives haven't broken down by the time you are wiping off with an MF.
I've done about 30 cars with Lime Prime and get excellent results. So much so, that I don't even bother with the HD cleanse any more.
Also, how much of the product are you using?


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## Frank

I've used Lime Prime on both Honda(Champ White) and Merc(Silver) paint with stunning results!


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## tdm

i applied both by hand, i tried both a foam applicator and a mf pad, the mf seemed to give much better results, though still a little swirly. im sure lime prime is a very good product, just so far i cant get it to work how i think it should.

with regards to the micro abrasive thing, i gave the lime prime a pretty good workout when i tried it on the test panel. must have worked it 5x more than hd cleanse and still had swirls. if i have to do any more than that i dont think i would bother to use it to do a whole car.


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## Phil H

Coxy914 said:


> From what I know (and what Gary has said), the Lime Prime has micro abrasives and needs to be worked more for them to break down. I've used Lime prime on everything from hard Audi/BMW paint to soft Yankee Ford paint. I did notice a similar finish when I was doing a black mustang the other week so I carried on working the Lime Prime till the micro abrasives had broken down and was left with a mirror finish ready for wax.
> My personal thought is that the micro abrasives haven't broken down by the time you are wiping off with an MF.
> I've done about 30 cars with Lime Prime and get excellent results. So much so, that I don't even bother with the HD cleanse any more.
> Also, how much of the product are you using?


I see what your saying about it possibly not breaking down enough. This i will be trying when i get time.

I'm treating it like a pre wax cleaner, like HD-C as this is what i normally use on details by apllying it by hand. Maybe LP should only be applied via machine wether it be PC or rotary i dont mind either way but maybe the instructions should say apply by machine only so it can be broken down properly?

i'm not using much at all when applying


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## Phil H

Frank said:


> I've used Lime Prime on both Honda(Champ White) and Merc(Silver) paint with stunning results!


was that by hand or machine?


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## Coxy914

I look at LP as being different a different product entirely to HD and thus cannot be treated the same. I use LP by machine and that way I have found it a very easy product to work with. 
I suppose it's like with many products, it's just a case of getting used to how each one works. Personally, I couldn't get on with HD cleanse at first, until some chap at Zym01 gave me a couple of handy tips on how to get best results. Now, if I were to use HD, I spritz my pad with some deionised water. That's just how I do it. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it's that way which gave me the best results.


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## SURFERROSA

Glad I read this thread. I'm going to be applying LP for the first time at the weekend and I'm going to do it by PC and finishing pad, hopefully no probs.

Just a note on swirling. The circle pattern is in fact mostly *straight* scratches that marr the paint. They appear circular particularly under a point source of light like the sun, sun gun, Brinkmann etc as well as some other lights that are not necessarily point sources. They are most obvious when inspected with point sources though. Light is given out in many directions and reflected from the straight scratches in many directions also, but the reflected light that enters the eye gives the impression of a circular pattern. It's all to do with the angle of reflection of the light and that portion that enters the eye. Not all the reflected light from the defect enters the eye.

I wish I could show this in some form of sketch but it's eluded me so far!

So, sideways rubbing will still give circular swirls. They are just straight scratches. There you go, clear as anything.:thumb:


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## ianFRST

interesting finding phil

ive only used LP on the sl55, and i didnt experience anything you have done. could it be the fact your using it on plastic maybe??


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## Phil H

SURFERROSA said:


> Glad I read this thread. I'm going to be applying LP for the first time at the weekend and I'm going to do it by PC and finishing pad, hopefully no probs.
> 
> Just a note on swirling. The circle pattern is in fact mostly *straight* scratches that marr the paint. They appear circular particularly under a point source of light like the sun, sun gun, Brinkmann etc as well as some other lights that are not necessarily point sources. They are most obvious when inspected with point sources though. Light is given out in many directions and reflected from the straight scratches in many directions also, but the reflected light that enters the eye gives the impression of a circular pattern. It's all to do with the angle of reflection of the light and that portion that enters the eye. Not all the reflected light from the defect enters the eye.
> 
> I wish I could show this in some form of sketch but it's eluded me so far!
> 
> So, sideways rubbing will still give circular swirls. They are just straight scratches. There you go, clear as anything.:thumb:


exactly :thumb:

let us know how you get on with it please


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## Phil H

ianFRST said:


> interesting finding phil
> 
> ive only used LP on the sl55, and i didnt experience anything you have done. could it be the fact your using it on plastic maybe??


It could well be plus the paint is very soft on the bike.

Its just going to be a case of playing around a bit more and testing different techniques on different surfaces etc.

I had a reply from Dom (thanks Dom) and yes the LP contains micro-abraisives as others have also mentioned. He also says it doesn't contain fillers. It may just not like the soft paint i'm using it on.


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## Frank

Phil H said:


> was that by hand or machine?


By hand mate, followed it will CG 50/50. LP is the first pre wax primer I have used so can't compare to HD Cleanse unfortunately.

I may not see the swirls since it is light colours i have used it on, but can see a very very smooth, wet finish.


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## ianFRST

Phil H said:


> It could well be plus the paint is very soft on the bike.
> 
> Its just going to be a case of playing around a bit more and testing different techniques on different surfaces etc.
> 
> I had a reply from Dom (thanks Dom) and yes the LP contains micro-abraisives as others have also mentioned. He also says it doesn't contain fillers. It may just not like the soft paint i'm using it on.


have you got the SV CF to try on it aswell?


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## Phil H

ianFRST said:


> have you got the SV CF to try on it aswell?


no not yet i'm hoping to try and get a sample of it.


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## adb

Read this thread today and thought i'd try a little test tonight on a scrap panel. The panel was polished with IP 3.02 on a polishing pad and then 106FF on a polishing pad - both applied with the makita. The finish was flawless apart from a few random deep scratches - absolutely no swirls and good clarity to the paint. 
The door in question is a BMW E36 in single stage red. 
Following the polishing, i applied Lime Prime in straight lines, working the product in with a sonus applicator until the residue went clear. This was then buffed off to reveal very faint swirling which was not evident before the LP application.
The swirling was then removed with a further hit of 106FF. 
To check if it was the LP removing oils which were masking swirls, i this time used the Meg's DC1 paint cleaner. Worked in with the other end of the foam applicator and then removed - no swirls! 
I then followed this up with another hit of LP - swirls! 
Without correcting these this time i set about re-applying the LP with a 4" LC finishing pad on the PC. Spread at speed 3, worked on speed 6 for numerous passes until totally clear. Residue removed with a clean mf - reduced swirls!
I'm absolutely convinced that it is the LP swirling the paint - the same applicators were used to apply both cleaners and the same mf to buff (which was also the one used to buff after polishing). 
I'm seriously suprised by this as i recently did my whole car before applying collinite for winter. I haven't noticed any swirls but then they weren't apparent on the test panel without the assistance of the brinkman either!
Guess we'll have to wait and see what DODO come back with???


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## PJS

That's poor showing on DoDo's behalf - I'm sure they'll want to check the product codes to see if a batch has been affected or if there's something else at play.
Does sound fairly conclusive the tests you did there *adb* - here's hoping DoDo will weigh in with some comments soon.


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## Epoch

Interesting abd, I Lime Primed a Black Fiesta by PC and Sonus Das Blue pad and the LP didn't create any swirls at all. The finish was completly swirl free before and after.

Dodo does state it does have a mild abrasive in it i think though


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## paddy328

I spoke to pj from dodo about this on sunday and he said the lime prime does contain very mild abrasives but couldnt see how it would swirl the paint. Everyone thought it must be the applicator it was used on. That was until adb did a test and found the same.


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## Mike_001

I just tried it on a CD with a fresh Megs foam applicator.
NOTHING.


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## PhillipM

Just tried it on a few CDs and found the same thing by hand on a microfibre, although I can't say I've noticed it on the car's via rotary/foam?

Maybe a batch in which the abrasives aren't breaking down quite fast enough, although IIRC they're only very fine just to boost gloss a little and help the surface cleaning?
Or microfibres are capturing the abrasives and not allowing them to work?


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## Phil H

Good test adb cheers for carrying out those tests aswell

Maybe the LP is very very fussy about what paint its applied too?


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## lucy

One word - Mickey mouse products!


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## PhillipM

lucy said:


> One word - Mickey mouse products!


That's 3.
And I've found it fantastic by rotary so far.

And I find it highly suspicious you signed up just for that. You wouldn't happen to work for a firm selling golden spoons would you?


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## lucy

PhillipM said:


> That's 3.
> And I've found it fantastic by rotary so far.
> 
> And I find it highly suspicious you signed up just for that. You wouldn't happen to work for a firm selling golden spoons would you?


Lol. No I don't think so....


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## adb

Perhaps you should learn to count and then come up with some constructive comments???


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## lucy

Sounds like Dodo is just full of marketing and haven't a clue about detailing products


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## nsanity

Well going by how well EVERY other product they have come out with has been received and reviewed by people on here, clearly they dont have a clue  

I think it is someone else who is clueless


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## Phil H

OK OK 

lets keep this on topic please.. Lucy. NOT turn it againt DODO. 

Moderators will be notified.

We have a "Funnies section" if you want to tell jokes about mickey mouse and talk ****.


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## Coxy914

lucy said:


> Sounds like Dodo is just full of marketing and haven't a clue about detailing products


Having has the pleasure of having PJ's company on Sunday, I can say he obviously knows a lot more than you.

3 whole posts and not a single word of wisdom.
have you tried and tested any of their products?
I doubt it very much.
If you've got nothing useful to say than my I suggest to click the "log out" button and don't let the door smack you in the ass on your way out.

Good day.


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## Deanoecosse

lucy said:


> Sounds like Dodo is just full of marketing and haven't a clue about detailing products


Looks like a village out there has just lost its idiot.


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## Mark M

lucy said:


> Sounds like Dodo is just full of marketing and haven't a clue about detailing products


:lol: Oh dear.

Taxi..................


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## Sharpy

have i read this right as in people seem to be having mroe problems with it after applying it by hand? rather than machine polishing it?

as i was looking to get some after xmas and will be applying it by hand as i have no pc/udm etc but might look to zym0l hd cleanse instead as my car has a £1200 dealer paint option and i dont want it swirled

as for loopylucy's comments then you are obviously dellusional or work for some rival company wanting to blacken dodo's good name.


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## Coxy914

ahhh, swizzlesticks!!!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## ukimportz

lucy said:


> One word - Mickey mouse products!


u r a joke :lol:

after meetin & chatting to pj on sunday, oh & using the dodo products including lime prime they are not mickey mouse products. i think you have probably made lots of friends already on the forum. NOT!!!!


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## Wheelie_Clean

Firstly, let me just say I have not used LP.

My question is:

Having just machine polished out swirls and then refined and burnished the paint with a finishing polish why would you then use another abrasive product by hand?

I can understand the need to remove the oils left from the polishing stage prior to wax. Megs dc1 would be ideal or an ipa wipe.

Wouldn't LP be more suited to unpolished paint for all the people that don't have access to a machine polisher?

I have had a similar issue with CG Easy Creme Glaze on very soft paint. It was after this episode that I questioned the need for any other abrasive product after machine polishing.

What do you think?


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## deej

Wheelie_Clean said:


> Firstly, let me just say I have not used LP.
> 
> My question is:
> 
> Having just machine polished out swirls and then refined and burnished the paint with a finishing polish why would you then use another abrasive product by hand?
> 
> I can understand the need to remove the oils left from the polishing stage prior to wax. Megs dc1 would be ideal or an ipa wipe.
> 
> Wouldn't LP be more suited to unpolished paint for all the people that don't have access to a machine polisher?
> 
> I have had a similar issue with CG Easy Creme Glaze on very soft paint. It was after this episode that I questioned the need for any other abrasive product after machine polishing.
> 
> What do you think?


The thing is we are led to beleive we need the "pre - wax cleanser", if we really do need it im not sure but the name kind of implies it.

And another step is obviously worth it to add something to the paintwork.


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## lucy

Coxy914 said:


> Having has the pleasure of having PJ's company on Sunday, I can say he obviously knows a lot more than you.
> 
> 3 whole posts and not a single word of wisdom.
> have you tried and tested any of their products?
> I doubt it very much.
> If you've got nothing useful to say than my I suggest to click the "log out" button and don't let the door smack you in the ass on your way out.
> 
> Good day.


I doubt it.

So how long has the DODO company been making products, 5 mins? How long have they been into detailing, 10 mins? Lol.

Yes i have used there products and I wasn't impressed.

Obviously some have you have got so drawn into the Dodo world... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

And no I dont work for any other wax company, I just find it highly amusing that some of you get so sucked in. :lol:


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## Coxy914

lucy said:


> I doubt it.
> 
> So how long has the DODO company been making products, 5 mins? How long have they been into detailing, 10 mins? Lol.
> 
> Yes i have used there products and I wasn't impressed.
> 
> Obviously some have you have got so drawn into the Dodo world... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> And no I dont work for any other wax company, I just find it highly amusing that some of you get so sucked in. :lol:


Hello sister!


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## Paul-T

I think their comments are not based on the fact they have been drawn into the Dodo hype, more to the fact you appear to have joined just to troll. 

I personally don't think that there is anything more sinister than it contains abrasive - they weren't broken down, so it left marks. HDC doesn't contain abrasives, doesn't need working in the same fashion, so didn't leave marks.


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## Coxy914

Now care to enlighten us as to which products you have used and what results you got from them. How you prepared the paint in the first place and what paint/car was it on rather than just charge in like on troll on heat with ridiculous statements.
having used Zym01 and Swizzle products in the past, the only people getting sucked in are the ones that will pay 10 times the amount for a product that will by and large give the same results.

Now go away young child and come back with some constructive comments for this thread or crawl back under the bridge which you came from and leave this thread for people who can add resourced comments.


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## Dave KG

lucy said:


> I doubt it.
> 
> So how long has the DODO company been making products, 5 mins? How long have they been into detailing, 10 mins? Lol.
> 
> Yes i have used there products and I wasn't impressed.
> 
> Obviously some have you have got so drawn into the Dodo world... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> And no I dont work for any other wax company, I just find it highly amusing that some of you get so sucked in. :lol:


Would you care to share what exactly you were not impressed about, rather than simply suggesting those who use their products are simply clueless and blindly drawn in? Quite an assertion that...

I personally use the Dodo products, not because I have been drawn in but because I have tested them objectively up against a vast (and I mean vast) array of other products which I know and use, and like others, I have even gone as far as to share my results with the products online and in person. I have been impressed with the product range, though obviously not everyone likes the same thing.

Of course, that is not to say its the only range I rate - but I do rate it higher than many on the results I have personally achieved and demonstrated.

Please if you have problems with the products, share with us as it may be your technique for applying them, in which case we'd love to help you get the best from the range, or indeed any other products for that matter.


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## *MAGIC*

lucy said:


> I doubt it.
> 
> So how long has the DODO company been making products, 5 mins? How long have they been into detailing, 10 mins? Lol.
> 
> Yes i have used there products and I wasn't impressed.
> 
> Obviously some have you have got so drawn into the Dodo world... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> And no I dont work for any other wax company, I just find it highly amusing that some of you get so sucked in. :lol:


Why the hell are you so bothered anyway? Did they say no to your D.A.D. application :lol:


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## AndyC

Lucy - tell us your expertise and how you tested Dodo against any other products and we'll be happy to listen to your findings. Troll DW and you will be asked to leave.

Thanks :thumb:


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## adb

Wheelie_Clean said:


> Firstly, let me just say I have not used LP.
> 
> My question is:
> 
> Having just machine polished out swirls and then refined and burnished the paint with a finishing polish why would you then use another abrasive product by hand?
> 
> I can understand the need to remove the oils left from the polishing stage prior to wax. Megs dc1 would be ideal or an ipa wipe.
> 
> Wouldn't LP be more suited to unpolished paint for all the people that don't have access to a machine polisher?
> 
> I have had a similar issue with CG Easy Creme Glaze on very soft paint. It was after this episode that I questioned the need for any other abrasive product after machine polishing.
> 
> What do you think?


Like you say, Meg's DC1 would do the trick - Lime Prime is DODO's version of DC1 - it is a pre wax cleanser, to be applied after polishing and before wax, to remove unnecessary oils and add ones designed to help the wax bond better.


----------



## adb

Reg Hollis said:


> I think their comments are not based on the fact they have been drawn into the Dodo hype, more to the fact you appear to have joined just to troll.
> 
> I personally don't think that there is anything more sinister than *it contains abrasive - they weren't broken down, so it left marks.* HDC doesn't contain abrasives, doesn't need working in the same fashion, so didn't leave marks.


Totally agree - I worked it on the PC for a good number of passes - there is no way you could have worked it that much by hand - and it actually reduced the swirls that it previously induced when i worked it by hand. Seems to say to me that you need to apply by machine in order to fully break it down. When applied by hand i didn't exactly wipe on/wipe off - i gave it a good working and i don't believe it was really feasible for me to have worked it any more (especially not if i were applying to a whole car). 
The thing is though that the swirls are so light, that i couldn't see them with the naked eye until the light of the brinkman was used - even under the bright lights in my garage, they were not apparent. Begs the question to me, how many people have checked the paint under the brinkman after LP'ing? Everyone checks after the polishing stage, but do they check after the pre-wax cleanser stage before waxing? 
I'd just like to point out that this is in no way a slight at DODO on my behalf - i've just purchased a couple of their waxes and i fully intend on sticking with them! They are brilliant products, achieving top end finishes at reasonable prices IMVHO. 
I just think that they maybe need to alter the instructions on LP to recommend a machine application in order to fully diminish the abbraisives.


----------



## Phil H

AndyC said:


> Lucy - tell us your expertise and how you tested Dodo against any other products and we'll be happy to listen to your findings. Troll DW and you will be asked to leave.
> 
> Thanks :thumb:


Thanks Andy well said.

I dont want this post going off topic due to one person stirring things. Just ignore! Obviously lucy has a problem with DODO Juice... so what!


----------



## Phil H

adb said:


> Totally agree - I worked it on the PC for a good number of passes - there is no way you could have worked it that much by hand - and it actually reduced the swirls that it previously induced when i worked it by hand. Seems to say to me that you need to apply by machine in order to fully break it down. When applied by hand i didn't exactly wipe on/wipe off - i gave it a good working and i don't believe it was really feasible for me to have worked it any more (especially not if i were applying to a whole car).
> The thing is though that the swirls are so light, that i couldn't see them with the naked eye until the light of the brinkman was used - even under the bright lights in my garage, they were not apparent. Begs the question to me, how many people have checked the paint under the brinkman after LP'ing? Everyone checks after the polishing stage, but do they check after the pre-wax cleanser stage before waxing?
> I'd just like to point out that this is in no way a slight at DODO on my behalf - i've just purchased a couple of their waxes and i fully intend on sticking with them! They are brilliant products, achieving top end finishes at reasonable prices IMVHO.
> I just think that they maybe need to alter the instructions on LP to recommend a machine application in order to fully diminish the abbraisives.


Exactly mate

i havnt tried applying it by machine yet as following instructions i applied it by hand like HD-C. 
If its best to apply by machine then so be it, like you say maybe it should be recommended this way.


----------



## adb

Phil H said:


> Exactly mate
> 
> i havnt tried applying it by machine yet as following instructions i applied it by hand like HD-C.
> If its best to apply by machine then so be it, like you say maybe it should be recommended this way.


If i get a chance, i will carry out some more tests tonight, applying it by machine to a freshly polished panel and see if it inflicts and swirls this way - i suspect (and hope) not, as machining it actually reduced the swirls i caused by the hand application. We shall see... :thumb:


----------



## Phil H

look forward to your findings Thanks


----------



## Jakedoodles

lucy said:


> I doubt it.
> 
> So how long has the DODO company been making products, 5 mins? How long have they been into detailing, 10 mins? Lol.
> 
> Yes i have used there products and I wasn't impressed.
> 
> Obviously some have you have got so drawn into the Dodo world... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> And no I dont work for any other wax company, I just find it highly amusing that some of you get so sucked in. :lol:


What's your job, may I ask?

I'm a detailer. I use these products every day, 6 days a week. If they were rubbish, I think I (or my customers) might know about it.


----------



## Sharpy

sharpy24 said:


> have i read this right as in people seem to be having mroe problems with it after applying it by hand? rather than machine polishing it?
> 
> as i was looking to get some after xmas and will be applying it by hand as i have no pc/udm etc but might look to zym0l hd cleanse instead as my car has a £1200 dealer paint option and i dont want it swirled
> 
> as for loopylucy's comments then you are obviously dellusional or work for some rival company wanting to blacken dodo's good name.


can some one answer my question? saynig as everyone got caught up in that lucy's comments


----------



## Phil H

sorry mate, 

my tests have been by hand, have yet to try it by rotary just not had the chance. 
Some may have had a few issues after applying it by machine. 

adb said he will carrry out a few tests by machine.


----------



## Sharpy

lol thanks

hmm i think i may keep a close eye on this thread then as i was looking to get some after i buy some jetseal and 50/50 wax in carwasnwax's xmas offer


----------



## WHIZZER

lucy said:


> One word - Mickey mouse products!





lucy said:


> Sounds like Dodo is just full of marketing and haven't a clue about detailing products





lucy said:


> I doubt it.
> 
> So how long has the DODO company been making products, 5 mins? How long have they been into detailing, 10 mins? Lol.
> 
> Yes i have used there products and I wasn't impressed.
> 
> Obviously some have you have got so drawn into the Dodo world... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> And no I dont work for any other wax company, I just find it highly amusing that some of you get so sucked in. :lol:


So Lucy tell us more please ! ..... Tell me how you know they are mickey mouse products, how you have tested them and what expertise you have in the Car cleaning market !!


----------



## Mark M

sharpy24 said:


> lol thanks
> 
> hmm i think i may keep a close eye on this thread then as i was looking to get some after i buy some jetseal and 50/50 wax in carwasnwax's xmas offer


This is a rare instance imo.

I have had no issues with LP by hand or by PC, it is a superb product and I now use it more than HD Cleanse.

Clearly it is very mildly abrasive, and on a very soft finish, which I can only imagine the paint is in this instance, marks have been inflicted for some reason (possibly not brocken down etc).

Lime Prime is only £13.50 or so, not going to hurt the wallet.


----------



## PhillipM

No marks via rotary on CD's.

Note - CD's + rotary is interesting. The worlds fastest frisbee.
No marks on the 306 (medium-hard paint) by hand either.

Perhaps a batch of abrasive that isn't quite as brittle as it should be?


----------



## Sharpy

true it may be a rare unfortunate occasion but thats 2 people now in this thread who its happened for and if it did happen to me then i would need to pay for someones services to come and correct it for me as i am not as fortunate as some to have a machine polisher, so like i said i will keep an eye on this thread to see what results come from adb's tests


----------



## Deano

i watched dave kg use lime prime and hard candy on an audi coupe at the weekend and the results were spectacular (sp). I also met PJ from dodo. He knows an awful lot about his product and wax in general if he's only been in the biz 5 mins.


----------



## Mark M

Methinks I shall keep an eye on how the lads tests go.

To date I have had no issues, and have checked the finish after wax/sealant applications on correction jobs, and the finish remained swirl free.


----------



## theDodo

***** sorry for delay guys - been traveling back and forth lately *******

first off, I am very sorry to hear that you are having troubles with Lime Prime, secondly, as earlier mentioned, we are definately interested in getting to the bottom of this and will do whatever we can to make sure you get the results you are looking for.

right, so before i start making any guesses, informed or not, about what is causing this i have a few more questions:

i am trying to understand the swirls marks and scratches in the paint??

so in your photo, here the LP is applied simply back and forth?? and i understand that the brinkman is showing the swirls, however, the swirls that are seen as vertical must have been there before?? i marked them out below:










so it is the straight swirls we are considering. also after the IPA wipedown it seems one of the swirls is quite deep, however, it too is in the vertical, not horizontal. marked below:










there does seem to be some swirl marks that are being 'revealed' by the LP rather than created. i am not saying that you are not getting the results that you state, i am simply investigating before i go off and tell you one or another thing.

i also know that the paint used on plastic is usually a different type of paint then that used on the metal on cars. the reason for this is the the nature of the plastic versus the metal and the process of paint bonding and the non-rigidness in plastic. as plastic will shift/stretch much more under stress the paint has to be quite a bit softer so as not to crack under use.

this is not to say that this paint is too soft and LP should not be used, or that it should be. i can't verify as it stands because i need to have more information.

i would like to offer you a replacement bottle of LP for the one you have for the purpose of seeing if there is anything in that particular batch. i completely trust that you have done these tests under normal conditions and i have to say that in my time using LP i have never had this issue.

* additionally so that it is said - there are micro abrasives in lime prime and if these are not broken down comletely then there is the chance that slight swirling can be caused, however, it hasnt happened til now that they have been difficult to break down, even by hand.

* lime prime is called a pre-wax cleanser, however, we have in no way implied nor said that it is a neccesary product before applying ours or other waxes. we offer this product to use because we have created it for and tested it to give a nice smooth and clean surface to the paintwork before applying wax, because it also helps the first layer of wax bond better [giving better durability]


----------



## Phil H

Thanks for replying, 

The panel was polished before hand and was swirl free even the slightly deeper looking vertical mark wasnt there. I was annoyed i didnt get a picture i just forgot. 
but it looked exactly like the picture after the second polish. 

I did try to break it down by hand with side to side movments left and right and up and down finishing left and right as in the picture. 

i know the brinkman isnt the best light for this test.


----------



## theDodo

Phil H said:


> I did try to break it down by hand with side to side movments left and right and up and down finishing left and right as in the picture.


ok, so you did apply both vertically and horizontally.... this is where the swirl could have come from.

then i think we are back to the type of paintwork on that plastic or even the micra abrasives in the LP, which i really would need to know about as this is not the results you should be getting from the product.

let me know if you will let me replace the bottle and get the one you have back for examination, Dodo Juice will cover shipping costs.


----------



## waxy

When you mention 'micro' abrasives are contained in the product,can you clarify if these are sub micron size, or are they larger.


----------



## Phil H

theDodo said:


> ok, so you did apply both vertically and horizontally.... this is where the swirl could have come from.
> 
> then i think we are back to the type of paintwork on that plastic or even the micra abrasives in the LP, which i really would need to know about as this is not the results you should be getting from the product.
> 
> let me know if you will let me replace the bottle and get the one you have back for examination, Dodo Juice will cover shipping costs.


No problem i have sent a pm regarding the bottle of LP.

It could well be the plastic but this would be a concern when used on bumpers etc.


----------



## adb

Only just caught up with this thread.

My tests were done on a BMW door so no plastic and certainly no soft paint. I must admit the LP was applied in straight lines in one direction only - i did not cross over. 

Thing that suprised me was that the Meg's DC1 I used would have also removed anything that was filing any swirls remaining from the polishing stage - however no swirls until an application of Lime Prime. Unless DC1 contains fillers???

Could it be the heat of the panel effecting the LP? It was applied to an area i had just machine polished at 1500-1800 rpm.


----------



## roscopervis

DC1 does say it removes oxidation and light swirls....well my bottle does any way. As it is not abrasive, this must be via a filling process.


----------



## m33porsche

*Scared of the Dodo*

well all this is great

Got two bottles of the stuff that are begging to be used but now got a seed of doubt that's playing havoc with my paranoid cleaning obsession


----------



## adb

m33porsche said:


> well all this is great
> 
> Got two bottles of the stuff that are begging to be used but now got a seed of doubt that's playing havoc with my paranoid cleaning obsession


Try a little test patch :thumb:


----------



## waxy

DC1 does contain very light abrasives,along with a chemical cleaner.


----------



## megaboost

m33porsche said:


> Got two bottles of the stuff that are begging to be used but now got a seed of doubt that's playing havoc with my paranoid cleaning obsession


I share this feeling, I have an unopened bottle that I bought on the basis of it being heralded as a HD Cleanse alternative (a product I've used and liked), now I'm worried about it not being a simple wipe on, wipe off type product as I'd expected.


----------



## L200 Steve

megaboost said:


> I share this feeling, I have an unopened bottle that I bought on the basis of it being heralded as a HD Cleanse alternative (a product I've used and liked), now I'm worried about it not being a simple wipe on, wipe off type product as I'd expected.


Give it a try on the Supra mate, I'm 99.9% sure 'knowing your paint" that you'll have nothing to worry about. I dont know whether your NSF wing will have hardened up yet, but the paint on that was one of the softest I've come across. Be worth a try though.


----------



## Breezy

I ordered a bottle today its had very good reviews I think this could either be a faulty bottle or the paint is just ridiculously soft, does HDC contain abbrasives?


----------



## megaboost

L200 Steve said:


> Give it a try on the Supra mate, I'm 99.9% sure 'knowing your paint" that you'll have nothing to worry about. I dont know whether your NSF wing will have hardened up yet, but the paint on that was one of the softest I've come across. Be worth a try though.


I'll trust you and give it a whirl (but hopefully not a swirl!), I guess it can always be polished out again anyway.


----------



## Clark @ PB

Breezy said:


> I ordered a bottle today its had very good reviews I think this could either be a faulty bottle or the paint is just ridiculously soft, does HDC contain abbrasives?


nope, just a cleanser with glazing oils


----------



## rubbishboy

HD Cleanse has an ingredient listed called kapolite. It is my understanding that this is an abrasive, allbeit a very fine one.


----------



## Trune

is this stuff safe to buy?

I wanted some paint cleaner for christmas, but should i just get DC1 instead?

My car already has some swirls, i dont really want to add to them?


----------



## Ashtra

its sound mate and easy to use


----------



## daves2rs

I used Dodo Lime Prime today with the UDM on my WRX 

How it looked applied with just Lime Prime

















Very happy with this product and didnt cause any swirling 

:thumb: from me


----------



## Refined Reflections

Trune said:


> is this stuff safe to buy?
> 
> I wanted some paint cleaner for christmas, but should i just get DC1 instead?
> 
> My car already has some swirls, i dont really want to add to them?


I've used and will keep using Lime Prime, for me its the best cleanser available. I've used it on Lambos, Porkers, Bentleys, Rollers and the like, so yes its safe to buy and use, but not safe to drink :lol:


----------



## Ronnie

I did the Mondeo.. the whole car with Lime prime on a 3M finishing pad on the Dewalt on speed 3 (same as speed 5 on PC) absolutly no problems to report this is a complete mystery!!!!


----------



## Wheelie_Clean

I am absolutely convinced that this is *not* a Lime Prime problem. When the product is exchanged and tested I am sure it will be exactly the same as any other bottle of LP.

This will prove to be down to extremely soft paint.

As I mentioned in an earlier post I have exactly the same problem with the limo's at work. Easy Creme glaze leaves marks so I tried Megs step 1 Paint Cleanser and that marks too.

The only solution for me is to finish polish with the rotary then complete a Last Touch wipe down then straight to wax.

I await the results of the Dodo testing with interest


----------



## adb

Wheelie_Clean said:


> I am absolutely convinced that this is *not* a Lime Prime problem. When the product is exchanged and tested I am sure it will be exactly the same as any other bottle of LP.
> 
> *This will prove to be down to extremely soft paint.*
> 
> As I mentioned in an earlier post I have exactly the same problem with the limo's at work. Easy Creme glaze leaves marks so I tried Megs step 1 Paint Cleanser and that marks too.
> 
> The only solution for me is to finish polish with the rotary then complete a Last Touch wipe down then straight to wax.
> 
> I await the results of the Dodo testing with interest


My test panel was a BMW door - pretty hard paint IMO. I think it may have been down to using straight after machine polishing - perhaps the paint was warm and therefore may have softened??? It wasn't ordinary macine polishing either - as it is a test panel i had just given it several hits with several different combo's - much more than you would do to a panel that "mattered".


----------



## HeavenlyDetail

I have just read this whole thread through and am now looking for an answer with regards to the marketing and exact nature of this product...I have lime prime and i have hd cleanse and cleaner fluid.......My full understanding on lp is that it is exactly the same product as hd cleanse a direct comparison and competitor with the same properties to wipe the panel , remove to leave a nice wet finish ready for a lsp??? Am i incorrect here as i always advise friends / forum members etc with products that are easy to use and have advised lp simply on price over hd cleanse etc......What concerns me now is that this product is clearly not what i presumed as these guys are not avid detailers and are used to products like aytoglymm and would not even understand that products need to be broken down and if so why is lp hailed as a paintwork cleanser if it has abrasives that need to be broken down to full work even on soft panels which really shouldnt matter becuase it should be safe on whatever we put it on...?? A, i wrong here??


----------



## Wheelie_Clean

adb said:


> My test panel was a BMW door - pretty hard paint IMO. I think it may have been down to using straight after machine polishing - perhaps the paint was warm and therefore may have softened??? It wasn't ordinary machine polishing either - as it is a test panel i had just given it several hits with several different combo's - much more than you would do to a panel that "mattered".


Do you have either of the Megs DC1 or Easy Creme Glaze To try on your test panel using the same process - immediately after machining? This whole thread intrigues me!

I can't help but think that Lime Prime and products like it are designed for use by the vast majority of people who don't machine polish their cars. The little bit of "cut" in the products being necessary to help with removal of oxidisation and brightening up the paint prior to wax application. They are perfect for this. Let's face it pc/rotary owners are a tiny minority even on this site.

I am yet to be convinced that any paint cleansing products actually add anything to the finish achieved with a finishing pad and finishing polish such as Menz 85RD.

The only doubt in my mind comes from the oily nature of the Menz and the urge to thoroughly remove said oils before applying wax.


----------



## tdm

vxrmarc i agree completely. cant really add anything to what you have said.


----------



## Mike_001

Since this thread was started, I used Lime Prime on 4 different cars.
- Honda Civic, black
- BMW 3 series, black
- Mercedes C220, dark blue
- Vauxhall Astra, black

It didn't matter if I just took the wipe on / wipe off route or worked it like a dog. Inspected under a Xenon lamp, my HID setup and Halogen. NOT EVEN ONCE I discovered any of the issues mentioned here.
I also tried the CD test and put LP on a freshly painted piece of trim from my Astra. No marring, no swirls, nothing.

So here's the conclusion (at least it is for me): This stuff is SAFE to use.


----------



## SimonW

vxrmarc said:


> I have just read this whole thread through and am now looking for an answer with regards to the marketing and exact nature of this product...I have lime prime and i have hd cleanse and cleaner fluid.......My full understanding on lp is that it is exactly the same product as hd cleanse a direct comparison and competitor with the same properties to wipe the panel , remove to leave a nice wet finish ready for a lsp??? Am i incorrect here as i always advise friends / forum members etc with products that are easy to use and have advised lp simply on price over hd cleanse etc......What concerns me now is that this product is clearly not what i presumed as these guys are not avid detailers and are used to products like aytoglymm and would not even understand that products need to be broken down and if so why is lp hailed as a paintwork cleanser if it has abrasives that need to be broken down to full work even on soft panels which really shouldnt matter becuase it should be safe on whatever we put it on...?? A, i wrong here??


I think we need some clarification from Dodo, I assumed it was a paintwok cleaner aswell!

But abrasives  Im using Cleane Fluid instead atm until we can clear this up


----------



## Phil H

vxrmarc said:


> I have just read this whole thread through and am now looking for an answer with regards to the marketing and exact nature of this product...I have lime prime and i have hd cleanse and cleaner fluid.......My full understanding on lp is that it is exactly the same product as hd cleanse a direct comparison and competitor with the same properties to wipe the panel , remove to leave a nice wet finish ready for a lsp??? Am i incorrect here as i always advise friends / forum members etc with products that are easy to use and have advised lp simply on price over hd cleanse etc......What concerns me now is that this product is clearly not what i presumed as these guys are not avid detailers and are used to products like aytoglymm and would not even understand that products need to be broken down and if so why is lp hailed as a paintwork cleanser if it has abrasives that need to be broken down to full work even on soft panels which really shouldnt matter becuase it should be safe on whatever we put it on...?? A, i wrong here??


Exaclty what i thought before i bought it. I was under the impression it was like HD-C and therefore treated it like HD-C

As Gary from RR said he has used it a lot with excellent results and i've heard great things about it which is why i dont want to give up on it.

oh and i did a CD test the other day (maybe not the best test to do) but the DODO again scratched the cd


----------



## adb

Wheelie_Clean said:


> Do you have either of the Megs DC1 or Easy Creme Glaze To try on your test panel using the same process - immediately after machining? This whole thread intrigues me!


Yes - as per one of my previous posts on this thread - i polished with 106ff to get rid of swirls and then applied LP to find swirls had appeared. To test my polishing i then re-polished with 106ff and then applied DC1 in place of LP to find no swirls had been caused. i then applied LP to find swirls again. I then applied LP via the PC on a 4" finishing pad to find this removed/reduced the swirls earlier imparted. That's why i settled o the conclusion that perhaps it needs machine application???

Interestingly enough, i've just been out in the garage doing some more testing. The bonnet of my VR6 has picked up the innevitable few light swirls from washing (despite polishing earlier in the year). I had however, LP'ed the whole car by hand a month or so ago in order to get some collinite on for winter.

The swirls:










After an application of LP via PC on a 4" SFX2 (white) pad - spread on 3, worked on 6 until clear:










Another before:










And another after:










Some more afters:




























As you can see, the LP did a pretty good job or removing the very light swirling present (plus left a beautiful finish).

I think this test probably illustrates the abilities of the abbraisives present in this product.


----------



## Bigpikle

watching this keenly, as I hoped to ditch HDC for something easier to use and cheaper. Seems odd that only a couple of people have noticed anything, although I seem to remember the initial tests mentioned light swirl removal?


----------



## Phil H

@ adb

so you got a swirl free finish from just LP but previous tests you have had swirls from LP. 

TBH i cant use a pre-wax cleaner thats very fussy on the surface i apply it too. Thats how i'm starting to see Lime Prime


----------



## adb

Phil H said:


> @ adb
> 
> so you got a swirl free finish from just LP but previous tests you have had swirls from LP.
> 
> TBH i cant use a pre-wax cleaner thats very fussy on the surface i apply it too. Thats how i'm starting to see Lime Prime


Not when applied by machine though - the swirls from LP came when i applied by hand - when i followed this with a machine app it removed/reduced them. I think it's all down to the work time of the LP.


----------



## Wheelie_Clean

Well done adb and thanks for the effort you put in to testing and sharing the results:thumb:


----------



## Paul-T

adb said:


> My test panel was a BMW door - pretty hard paint IMO. I think it may have been down to using straight after machine polishing - perhaps the paint was warm and therefore may have softened??? It wasn't ordinary macine polishing either - as it is a test panel i had just given it several hits with several different combo's - much more than you would do to a panel that "mattered".


The paint won't have been softened, otherwise it would go soft when left in the sun all day during the summer.

Wheelie-Clean, I find that you've had the same issues with EZ Creme Glaze and DC1 very strange indeed. I use a lot of EZ Creme, its just a glaze, I've never seen it leave marks (and I always check after each process, more to check a contaminated cloth hasn't caused marring etc). I think the issue is more likely a paint one there, or the applicator, than the products you mention.


----------



## theDodo

i want to assure you all that we are going to inspect the bottle in question and have in no way left this hanging. a replacement bottle will be going out to phil next week and we are expecting the 'bottle in question' back.

i promise that we will undertake a number of tests to analyse where the swirls are coming from. i can say, that in the formulation and creation of Lime Prime we did extensive testing and had a large test panel of detailers do their worst to evaluate the product and give us results. we would not release a product if we had any suspicion at all that the product was not safe to use.

Lime Prime has been compared to other products by other manufacturers and this is because of the nature of the product, Dodo Juice does not refer to any of our products as direct replacements to competitors products, specifically.


----------



## Epoch

In the test above could the glazing oils etc in the LP not be filling the swirls and even the finishing pad used would have some bite to it!

Not trying to be difficult just interested, as i have some LP and haven't seen any swirling to date by hand or PC


----------



## Wheelie_Clean

Reg Hollis said:


> The paint won't have been softened, otherwise it would go soft when left in the sun all day during the summer.
> 
> Wheelie-Clean, I find that you've had the same issues with EZ Creme Glaze and DC1 very strange indeed. I use a lot of EZ Creme, its just a glaze, I've never seen it leave marks (and I always check after each process, more to check a contaminated cloth hasn't caused marring etc). I think the issue is more likely a paint one there, or the applicator, than the products you mention.


You are 100% correct. In my case (with the limo's) it is due to the paint. It is the softest I have ever come across, so soft that I think there was either a faulty batch of clear coat or incorrect application/baking at the coach builders. I have had no problem at all with the other cars I have machined, cleansed, glazed sealed and/or waxed. (Mondeo, Vectra, Rav4, Fiesta, Vitara, Kia etc)

This is why I thought Phil H's findings must be due to soft paint. adb's findings with the BMW door, cast doubt on that theory though.


----------



## SimonW

theDodo said:


> Lime Prime has been compared to other products by other manufacturers and this is because of the nature of the product, Dodo Juice does not refer to any of our products as direct replacements to competitors products, specifically.


It is a pre wax cleaner though?


----------



## L200 Steve

I've liked Lime Prime as a paint cleaner since the time that I got my first bottle of the stuff as a tester from Dom.

One of the first things that I liked about it was how in my opinion, it had a little bite to it. This I thought ideal for when cleaning the paint of a car that I hadn't machined. Using a MF applicator pad to aid the 'bite', I found that I could create a silky smooth finish quickly and with the minimum of fuss.

We tried it on a few different paint types, even demoing it at one of our Costa Coffee meets. Most of the stuff that we tried it on hadn't been polished, but each time the LP left a really decent finish ready for wax.

I've given this product to a few mates, c/w mf applicator to clean their paint before waxing. Everyone has come back with positive feedback. We always try and use a similar technique to when using HD Cleanse - Clean MF applicator dampened with water. Single line of product then apply in straight lines using a little pressure. The MF applicator normally removes the majority of any excess product, leaving just a light buffing by MF cloth to finish off.

Machine application - I watched Epoch apply it by PC to the paintwork of the Fiesta wet sand project, after I'd finished burnishing the paint to my satisfaction using Menz 85RD on the Metabo. This paint was rather soft in places, as I'd been able to polish out wet sanding marks using just a polishing pad and water, yet the Lime Prime left no marring behind.

Just a thought for Dom - Any plans to release a pure Dodo hand glaze, for those of us who spend far too long burnishing the finish with micro fine polishes and are only looking for the wetting stages of a glaze and not the cleaning properties that LP seems to have.


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## megaboost

L200 Steve said:


> Just a thought for Dom - Any plans to release a pure Dodo hand glaze, for those of us who spend far too long burnishing the finish with micro fine polishes and are only looking for the wetting stages of a glaze and not the cleaning properties that LP seems to have.


Ultimately that's what it seems a few of us thought we'd already purchased, would be nice if such a thing was to be released now


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## HeavenlyDetail

megaboost said:


> Ultimately that's what it seems a few of us thought we'd already purchased, would be nice if such a thing was to be released now


Exactly and this is my full point......I cannot quote anywhere specific as i know forums too well with people quoteing what you say BUT i am sure somewhere that i read it was on a par with a higher end wipe on wipe off pre wax cleanser so this is why i have always been lead to believe this is a hd cleanse/cleaner fluid product and not a product that has to broken down by hand !!!!

The next question is about batch numbers ?? How do we know if it is a faulty batch as i am worried about applying this now onto soft paintwork or cars with plastic front wings like renaults etc?? The batch number on my lp is djlp250 which i would presume is not a batch number at all but stands for dodo juice lime prime 250 ml???? This means there is no way of knowing how many faulty bottles are out there in my eyes...


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## Coxy914

vxrmarc said:


> The batch number on my lp is djlp250 which i would presume is not a batch number at all but stands for dodo juice lime prime 250 ml???? This means there is no way of knowing how many faulty bottles are out there in my eyes...


I personally don't see it as a faulty batch.
Dodo Juice don't hide the fact that it contains micro abraisives. Which maybe one of the main reasons it does a better job of cleaning than other PWC's.
It's like everything in detailing, some products are more suited to certain jobs than others. It's a bit like using some polishes on VAG paint, or vice versa, using 3.02 on Soft paint like that of a Ford Mustang.
I did state earlier in this thread that I had had a similar instance when applying LP to a Mustang I had done recently. So I changed tactics/products as I thought at the time that the microabrasives must have been to harsh for the paint in question. 
On VAG, BMW, Porsche, Vauxhall paint, I have had excellent results with LP.
I know that certain paints are soft so will only try a test area first to see if the LP is not going to work with that paint. I wouldn't use LP on a black Ford Mustang as the paint is too soft, and thus, will reach for a different product (might eventually get to finish off my bottle of HDC!!)


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## Phil H

ok so is LP advertised wrongly? 
(I dont mean this in any bad way, this thread is a discussion) 

i.e is it a cleaner/ polish? e.g swissvax cleaner fluid meduim. As i fully understand different polishes work on different surfaces. 

because a Cleanser to me should prep the paint ready for wax no matter what surface it is with virtualy no abrasives and you are 100% confident that you will not inflict marks before wax. e.g HD-C

cleaner / cleanser .........lets discuss that?


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## HeavenlyDetail

Totally agree phil and this is my point entirely.....It aint what it says then period.....For this reason i will no longer advise on it because i cannot start asking what paint type etc i just expect it to work on everything like hd cleanse and cleaner fluid do...


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## Coxy914

Phil H said:


> ok so is LP advertised wrongly?





vxrmarc said:


> Totally agree phil and this is my point entirely.....It aint what it says then period.....For this reason i will no longer advise on it because i cannot start asking what paint type etc i just expect it to work on everything like hd cleanse and cleaner fluid do...


I don't think so:
This is how Dodo Juice advertise it.

_



Dodo Juice Lime Prime

The eagerly-awaited pre-wax cleanser that breaks all the rules. *With micro-abrasives to remove oxidisation and light swirlmarks, cleaning agents to remove watermarks and ingrained dirt*, and lubricating oils for slickness and gloss.

Click to expand...

_I see it as a different product to say HD cleanse.

The other day, I had to do a black Vauxhall.
I had done it about 6 months ago and was really just for a top up, but the owner had washed it herself a couple of times and had inflcited minor swirling.
I went over the car with LP on a UDM and within a few minutes, she was swirl free and ready for wax.

HD Cleanse is purely a cleaner. Nothing more, nothing less. if you want something just to clean then fine, if you need it to work a bit more for you, then reach for the LP.
Just becuase I am a DAD, it doesn't mean I'm religiously going to reach for the LP prior to applying the Wax.


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## HeavenlyDetail

Ok so my next question then is should the instructions state that it should really be applied my machine more than hand as it is obviously not working correctly in Phils case due to the fact that it is not being broken down by hand????


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## Coxy914

vxrmarc said:


> Ok so my next question then is should the instructions state that it should really be applied my machine more than hand as it is obviously not working correctly in Phils case due to the fact that it is not being broken down by hand????


no not really.

You can use it by either. I think the biggest mistake people are making is treating it the same as HD cleanse when it isn't.
I just found it easier and quicker to do it by machine. I did an Audi RS6 2 days before and did all that by hand. I just see it as a new prouct which people need to find for themselves what the best technique is to get the achieved results.
Reading how to use a product is not the best way on finding out how it works. The best is to try it and see for yourself.
As it's a new product and as I don't see a similar product on the market to compare it with then at the end of the day, it's only by trial that you will see all it's nuances.


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## megaboost

Looks as though I need to buy some HDC as well then, LP for some use, HDC for others.

Perhaps I got caught up in the forum hype rather than taking the time to read the official word on it, not an expensive mistake and the bottle is still unused but at least this thread has opened my eyes and taught me a few things so I can use the product properly


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## Phil H

Did you by any chance wipe with IPA after your job on the Vauxhall? would be interresting to see if it masked or removed the swirls.

On a perfectly polished surface i know HD-C will do the job i want it to do even testing with IPA after HD-C the surface is still fine.

Coxy 914 - you mention "The best is to try it and see for yourself"

couldnt agree more. Exactly why i bought a bottle. I'm just not having any luck with it as i was under the impression it was the same type of product as HD-C for example.

As mentioned before a DODO pure glaze may or should be brought out? then one of their great waxes can be used on top

therefore maybe..:

LP become - "DODO Light Cleaner fluid"

then:

DODO Glaze / Cleanser

then DODO Wax application


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## Coxy914

Phil H said:


> Did you by any chance wipe with IPA after your job on the Vauxhall? would be interresting to see if it masked or removed the swirls.


LP has no filler properties, so it wouldn't mask them.


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## HeavenlyDetail

Ok im gonna leave it here now but how can you buy 2 products and use one for somethings and some for others when you have no idea if it will work or not??? The whole idea is you buy a product and use it on your car like anything else without worry that it will do something to it......To me this is not accepable IF something is found to be abnormal with Phil,s bottle and if there is how many others are like it and are they traceable??? The answer simply has to be no because there is simply no stock control or batch identification on these just a digital lazer print sticker......i hope Phil finds the cause of this and there is an easy explanantion..Lets be totally honest if this product is eventually going to be sold in the mainstream how many thousands of everyday uses are going to understand what detailers or good amateurs understand about the way a product works , they arnt going to the same as grandad bob gets his autoglymm box for christmas and uses it sunday mornings....Wouls he know it has fine fillers in it of course not he just wans it to do the job it was intended for without causing problems on the car!!


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## L200 Steve

vxrmarc said:


> Ok so my next question then is should the instructions state that it should really be applied my machine more than hand as it is obviously not working correctly in Phils case due to the fact that it is not being broken down by hand????


The fact that a couple of people have had problems with this product by hand doesn't mean everybody should either switch to machine application or bin the product does it?

Phil's had issues, which has been brought to everyones attention, and hopefully will make a few people do a test section rather than 'doing a full car' because forum hype says so.

Many products work differently from car to car - Most polishes for example. The fact that one person can get a product to work to their liking on a particular car doesn't mean that the next person will. On the same note I don't think that their is one product range or single set of products that would work on every car either - detailing would be pretty boring if that was the case.

One can only gain so much knowledge from reading a forum, the real product insight will always come from hands on testing. Working out for oneself what works, and what is forum politics.


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## Coxy914

Can't see it comparing this to Grandad Bob and his Autoglym happy shine pack really. Someone who buys this kind of product is a bit past the quick Sunday morning wash, and should really know what the product does before using it.
I do agree with the stock control and batch number process though and this I would see a doubly important if mass producing a stock and selling in greater numbers.


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## HeavenlyDetail

Nope i dont agree at all steve to be honest.....Hd cleanse will work on every single car ive done as will cleaner fluid and i have never heard of anyone say it has done anything like this.....My point is lp has and there is no way of tracing batches if there is something to be found abnormal in it!!!!! How do you know if Phil,s bottle has x inside that shouldnt be that 20,000 other bottles wont have????? This is simple quality control that most manufacturers do unless i have jumped to a presumption on the codong of which i have guessed and will apologize for if im incorrect.

Do you agree or disagree??


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## Coxy914

vxrmarc said:


> Hd cleanse will work on every single car ive done as will cleaner fluid


There's the main problem, comparing this product to HD cleanse or Swizzle Cleaner fluid. Neither of those have micro abrasives and will not remove light swirling. This is *NOT* the same product. Similar yes, but definatley not the same.


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## HeavenlyDetail

Coxy914 said:


> Can't see it comparing this to Grandad Bob and his Autoglym happy shine pack really. Someone who buys this kind of product is a bit past the quick Sunday morning wash, and should really know what the product does before using it.
> I do agree with the stock control and batch number process though and this I would see a doubly important if mass producing a stock and selling in greater numbers.


Yes but coxy the thing is i would presume that dodo factory and his team are working on selling this to the whole of the uk and mainstream and not professional detilers so therefore YES i would expect grandad Bob to be able to use it as if he doesnt then dodo factory have failed in their advertising and marketing campaign and route for the future. They rightly so will want to sell millions of waxes and bottles eventually as any manufacturer will and theres gotta be what 1% of that mainstream that understand detailing hence autoglymm is so big...


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## HeavenlyDetail

Coxy914 said:


> There's the main problem, comparing this product to HD cleanse or Swizzle Cleaner fluid. Neither of those have micro abrasives and will not remove light swirling. This is *NOT* the same product. Similar yes, but definatley not the same.


But this is what everybody has believed from the start especially me and about 20 guys i chat with.......


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## Coxy914

vxrmarc said:


> Yes but coxy the thing is i would presume that dodo factory and his team are working on selling this to the whole of the uk and mainstream and not professional detilers so therefore YES i would expect grandad Bob to be able to use it as if he doesnt then dodo factory have failed in their advertising and marketing campaign and route for the future. They rightly so will want to sell millions of waxes and bottles eventually as any manufacturer will and theres gotta be what 1% of that mainstream that understand detailing hence autoglymm is so big...


I wouldn't presume anything!!


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## L200 Steve

vxrmarc said:


> Nope i dont agree at all steve to be honest.....Hd cleanse will work on every single car ive done as will cleaner fluid and i have never heard of anyone say it has done anything like this.....My point is lp has and there is no way of tracing batches if there is something to be found abnormal in it!!!!! How do you know if Phil,s bottle has x inside that shouldnt be that 20,000 other bottles wont have????? This is simple quality control that most manufacturers do unless i have jumped to a presumption on the codong of which i have guessed and will apologize for if im incorrect.
> 
> Do you agree or disagree??


How many detailing products have batch identification on?

I can understand why the major automotive brands have batch ID, but what about the smaller brands.

FIW Megs informed me a while ago that they had no way of telling which batch their NXT Wax was (something to do with them changing formulation 2 years ago). No one had any way in knowing whether their NXT was old or new batch.

And that's a company the size of Meguiar's.


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## Refined Reflections

If you want to compare LP with another cleanser like for like then try swizzle cleaner fluid medium, though swizzle do say it contains fillers, but it also does have fine abrasives.

I have compared LP to HDC and CF in regards to the finish achieved, also finding LP much easier and a better finish, but considering I apply 99% of my cleansers by machine I look at the finished results, for me no issues of marrings period.


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## Coxy914

vxrmarc said:


> But this is what everybody has believed from the start especially me and about 20 guys i chat with.......


well, then 21 people need to read what is on the Dodo Juice page. That's the main problem. 1 person doesn't read properly what the product does, and then tells his mate about this product. They in turn tell their mates and so on, and so we have the situation that you and your friends are in and that is you are assuming that this is going to be mass produced to take on the likes of Zym01's HD cleanse and is purely a pre wax cleaner.

I lifted the quote about what LP does from their site and that has been on there prior to the launch of LP.

It's not a case of how it's been marketed, it's more of a case of a lot of people making assumptions about the product without actually using it. More likely down to the fact that many people see Dodo Juice as the next best thing since Zym01 and Swissvax in the Wax markets and comparing the waxes (which is understanderable), but then, they are going on to compare LP directly to HD, rather than thinking, hold on guys, Dodo Juice have launched a new product. Let's test this product OURSELVES and see how it works for us.


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## Mike_001

vxrmarc said:


> do the job it was intended for without causing problems on the car!!


That's exactly what it does for me.

And YES... on our forum we had a member who ran into the exact same problems with Swizöl Cleaner Fluid.
No one ever found out what caused the problems on that exact car back then.
But maybe now you should better stop using it? 
Give me a break..... :lol:


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## Refined Reflections

vxrmarc said:


> But this is what everybody has believed from the start especially me and about 20 guys i chat with.......


I guess you never read my original post when I was testing the pre production LP, I made mention at least twice that it contained fine abrasives.

I was under no illusion otherwise, but I guess I read the info I was sent and also read what I types rather than look at pictures (not that ths is what you do Marc, just saying people in general :thumb


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## Mark M

I feel that LP for some reason seems to be known on the forum to be a replacement for HD Cleanse, probably as people have just been using it in place, not because it is a direct replacement.

To date I have had no issues with it and have been very impressed by the finish it gives.

I have used it by hand and by PC, checked under lighting, and after applying to a corrected finish, then waxed, the finish was spot on.

What Dodo should now make is a hand glaze, with no abrasives, simple.

I do think that some people will be left thinking now, what if LP marks my car and they don't have the capability to machine polish it.
After doing the whole car, they could inflict more damage...

What I do find strange is that the micro-abrasives in this case seem to be abrasive enough to remove swirling so effectively, considering it is advertised as a prewax cleanser (not swirl corrector, although it is stated that it removes swirling). You just don't expect a pre-wax cleanser to be PO85RD effectively.

Also, PO85RD by hand doesn't inflict swirling...


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## Aaran

does that not depend on how deep the swirls are in the first place?

dodo have done their job and marketed the product and said what it contains ie: abrasiaves. anything that contains those should be tested on a small section of paint work, same with any product on any paint (it even says so on just about every guide on here)

what someone needs to do is follows:

get a scrap pannel. tape up 2 areas and get loads of depth readings across the two sections.

get the dodo pwc and apply/work it with a soft buff pad and take a reading again across the area: how much did it remove?

then do the following section with a soft buff pad using say 85rd etc and get after readings.

then compare them. how much cut does this product do?

its the only way to tell how agressiave the product is compared to other ones.

go look at the product cut chart in the machine polishing section, i was suprised that the megs stage 1 paint cleanser actully managed to preform any cut at all , but its listed there as having a very very light cut.


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## lucy

sounds like the dodo haven't a clue wot they've made!!! Its just a load of marketing. They might be able to sound like they know what there talking about, but there not detailers or into detailing, there just blagging it with marketing.


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## spitfire

Five posts lucy, and all of them about Dodo. What's your angle?


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## Coxy914

lucy said:


> sounds like the dodo haven't a clue wot they've made!!! Its just a load of marketing. They might be able to sound like they know what there talking about, but there not detailers or into detailing, there just blagging it with marketing.


eeeerrrr..wtf???

Think someone needs a ban. You've added no useful input at all into any of your posts.


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## Bigpikle

Refined Reflections said:


> I guess you never read my original post when I was testing the pre production LP, I made mention at least twice that it contained fine abrasives.


Gary - I'm glad you confirmed this, as I was sure I didnt imagine it. 

My next question is one about how abrasive is this compared to finishing plishes like Megs #80, 85RD etc, and exactly what technique is required to use it effectively?

I assumed a couple of passes by machine with med speed, just like a glaze would be enough, but now I wonder if I need to work it like a polish?


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## [email protected]

As a complete detailing novice i use this site for help and advice and have picked up some really good tips and stuff and one of those tips related to using a sealer between glaze and wax my choice was always ex-p, are we no longer using a sealer as LP, HD whatever seems to be the products of choice.

Its probarbly just my lack of understanding but a sealer was to protect paint from whatever elements wax couldnt protect against so a cleaner fluid must strip this protection off unless new waxes are now UV protectants or whatever.

Im probarbly miles away from the truth tbh.


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## Refined Reflections

Bigpikle said:


> Gary - I'm glad you confirmed this, as I was sure I didnt imagine it.
> 
> My next question is one about how abrasive is this compared to finishing plishes like Megs #80, 85RD etc, and exactly what technique is required to use it effectively?
> 
> I assumed a couple of passes by machine with med speed, just like a glaze would be enough, but now I wonder if I need to work it like a polish?


Hi mate, nice to know some read what is written :thumb:

I'd say that LP is as fine if not finer than Menz FF 85RD, I can't compare it to Megs #80 as its been months since I've used it.

On application by PC I use a 10p sized blob, speed 1 to spread, then 2 or 3 passes at speed 3, if I'm looking on soft or very light marred paint then I'll do a couple of passes at speed 5 and then move on to the next section or panel. It can be worked like a super fine polish on paint that is real soft for more defect removal, but this I removal is more down to the pad than the LP, as L200Steve proved on the wet sanded Fiesta using just a pad and water.

Oh still need to sort out coming to see you at some point to do some more trade swaps/lessons


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## PhillipM

Don't feed the troll Spitfire! :lol:


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## Brazo

Right Lucy has been banned permanently. Although of course Lucy doesn't exist simply a second account on an existing member which is currently being investigated. Thread for now has run its course.


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