# Serious Brake Dust Build up/corrosion.



## edthedrummer (May 30, 2007)

Just bought a set of 205GTi alloys off of member Pug_101, they need refurbishing, and have a really bad build up of brake dust on the backs of them. The fronts have already been cleaned and rubbed down by Paul, but the backs are still caked. Pug_101 reccommended rubbing the backs down with sandpaper to get rid of the build up, but i wondered if there were any chemicals to save time and effort? They really are bad.

I've tried CG Blue Rim cleaner diluted 4:1 and neat on them, but to no real avail.

Couple of Pics,


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## CopperBottom (Nov 17, 2007)

Ill prob get shouted for this, but i always find that WD40 left to soak works on my fork sanchions on the front of my bike. But im sure someone else will come along with a MUCH better idea


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## edthedrummer (May 30, 2007)

Actually, now that you mention it, i remember a few users on here use wd40 to remove tar spots from the paint work. 

I will try this on one of them and see if it does anything, i can't really lose as they're going to be refurb'd by myself anyway. Cheers.


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## Wheelie_Clean (Jun 16, 2007)

If they are going to be painted I would wet sand them. Probably the quickest method, whilst retaining a good base for paint.


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## gti mad man (Aug 9, 2006)

i had tyres removed then got them acid dipped dear but worth it


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## edthedrummer (May 30, 2007)

gti mad man said:


> i had tyres removed then got them acid dipped dear but worth it


Not really willing to spend alot on them, I would like a decent finish, but i only have a budget of £20-£30 to refurb all 5.


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## edthedrummer (May 30, 2007)

Wheelie_Clean said:


> If they are going to be painted I would wet sand them. Probably the quickest method, whilst retaining a good base for paint.


working from 400grit up to 1500-2000?


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## Wheelie_Clean (Jun 16, 2007)

I am sure 1200 would be more than fine enough for priming, might even be too fine, you need a key for the paint.


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## edthedrummer (May 30, 2007)

cheers mate, i'll try and pick up some 800 and 1200 to be on the safe side, The fronts are fine, but the backs are caked.

What is the durability of the rattle can refurb guides on here? I'm going to be primer painting and lacquering them all, so i can't see many problems??


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## GlynRS2 (Jan 21, 2006)

Give them a good coat of strong degreaser, e.g. Jizer or Gunk, and let that soak in, then use a green nylon scourer to remove most of the crud. Otherwise it will just clog up your wet & dry paper.
I think that you will find the alloy of the wheel surprisingly soft when you come to wet sand it - so go steady at first. Then maybe primer filler to flat any remaining defects before going with the colour of your choice :thumb:


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## kk1966 (Aug 8, 2007)

Im bracing myself for the kickback on this one but here goes. Always works for me but make sure you wear goggles and gloves

http://www.conceptchemicals.com/con...isplay=Concept&type=1&subcatid=17&query=surge

To be used very carefully but will shift anything from alloys when everything else fails.


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## edthedrummer (May 30, 2007)

jesus on a bicycle!!! that looks harsh stuff, especially if you have to wear goggles and gloves. What percentage of wheel are you left with afterwards?  

Hopefully i won't have to do anything as drastic as that, I've tried the WD40 suggestion just now, and it did work a bit, but there's still big lumps of tar and brake dust left. I will try gunk and a green scourer tomorrow. 

Does it matter what colour the filler primer is? and should i wetsand it between coats of primer?


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## kk1966 (Aug 8, 2007)

edthedrummer said:


> jesus on a bicycle!!! that looks harsh stuff, especially if you have to wear goggles and gloves. What percentage of wheel are you left with afterwards?


All of it surprisingly enough. I keep it in my "When all else fails" kit. Oh, forgot to mention to wear a mask as it rips your lungs apart when you breath it in.


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## Wheelie_Clean (Jun 16, 2007)

Have you tried a brillo pad?


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## edthedrummer (May 30, 2007)

Wheelie_Clean said:


> Have you tried a brillo pad?


No, but i will be looking for one tomorrow night to try, along with some gunk, WD40 and my CG Blue again. The WD40 did help a bit, so i will go mad tomorrow.


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## Wheelie_Clean (Jun 16, 2007)

Well, it's not like you are going to ruin the finish is it!


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## edthedrummer (May 30, 2007)

Wheelie_Clean said:


> Well, it's not like you are going to ruin the finish is it!


exactly, even if it does scratch i will be using filler primer and wetting it flat again.


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## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

Even a pH 5.0 acid with a dilution rate of 4:1 (as recommended by Meguiar's for their Wheel Brightener) results in a pH 4.5 solution. 

This product is Hydrofloric acid with a pH 1.0


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## MattOz (May 15, 2007)

I'd go with a soak and then the green nylon scourer as Glyn suggests. Then use some fine wire wool soaked in fairy liquid for the stubborn bits. Be careful not to apply too much pressure to the wire wool. I've found this method to be very effective in the past. 

Matt


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## cheezemonkhai (Jan 29, 2007)

TOGWT said:


> Even a pH 5.0 acid with a dilution rate of 4:1 (as recommended by Meguiar's for their Wheel Brightener) results in a pH 4.5 solution.
> 
> This product is Hydrofloric acid with a pH 1.0


If that stuff is truly Hydrofluoric acid of any concentration, then if you get it on your hands you would be requiring an amputation as that stuff just eats and eats flesh working it's way up.


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## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

Wheel cleaners that are formulated with Hydrofluoric acid; that is a solution of hydrogen fluoride in water, it is corrosive, meaning it will have a detrimental (and sometimes unrecoverable effect on surfaces it's applied too) and it is also highly poisonous. The application instructions usually state- 'apply, but do not allow product to remain on the surface for more than 30 seconds before removal with a strong stream of water'.

Skin contact with concentrated hydrofluoric acid or inhalation of its vapour has caused many serious injuries, even death. Concentrated solutions of hydrofluoric acid pass quickly through the skin and cause deep, painful burns. Dilute solutions also penetrate the skin, but it does not give the immediate burning sensation caused by the concentrated form of the acid, a user may tend to be less aware of the contact with the acid.

There are specific ordinance to enforce Hydrofluoric acid hazard spill control / exposure and treatment methods and specific materials, most of which are just not going to be in the enthusiast or even mobile detailer's toolkit, non-compliance can result in heavy penalties.

It also has the unique ability to dissolve almost all inorganic oxides. In the human body, hydrofluoric acid reacts with calcium and damages nerves, bone, and several organs including the heart and kidneys - *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid*


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## kk1966 (Aug 8, 2007)

Its not that damn strong. It obviously isnt concentrated hydroflouric acid as i still have all my fingers.

Like i said, its in my 'when all else fails' kit. And the wheels remain intact. Im pretty sure we have all come across cars where you have stubborn buildup on a car that probably has never ever had the wheels cleaned and then they have driven the brakes down to metal and you need something as a spot cleaner that is a 'little out of the norm'. Then you just need to be careful and know what you are doing with the appropriate precautions. 

If anyone has ever had experience of jap imports with rough cast alloys they will know what i mean.


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## dw0510 (Oct 22, 2006)

Wire wool!!!!


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## edthedrummer (May 30, 2007)

Would shot blasting work? Would it be quicker? If so what do i need to blast it with? Aluminium oxide? Coarse Sand? Glass beads?


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## A20 LEE (Feb 20, 2007)

i'd take a wire brush wheel in a drill to those.


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

edthedrummer said:


> Would shot blasting work? Would it be quicker? If so what do i need to blast it with? Aluminium oxide? Coarse Sand? Glass beads?


Have a look in the Yellow pages for a local shotblaster. Try and stay away from 'Sandblasters' though (these are considered to be 'Kosovan Kar washers' of the blasting trade)

If you want to do it yourself though, you can buy small blast guns from Machine Mart etc.

Have a look at buying yourself a bag or two of copper slag (J-Blast Ultrafine) or a bag of Garnet. Both of these will do the same job as Ali Oxide, but at a fraction of the cost.

Glass Bead tends to be used on much finer work, as almost a coarse polishing stage rather than a cleaning stage.

I'd expect to charge about £35 for 4 wheels blasting. You can have this done with the tyres on.

If you take the tyres off first though, you can have the whole wheel including rim blasted, and will then be able to get the full wheel coated without having a masking line around the rim where the tyre sits. You can also look at having them powder coated after blast. I'd expect to pay around £25 per rim for the powder coating:thumb:


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## Mark M (Nov 29, 2006)

TBH, I would just save yourself a hell of a lot of hassle, and take them to get professionally refurbished.

Yes, it will cost more, but it skips a bunch of hurdles.

They will acid dip them, shot blast, weld/fill, smooth, paint/powdercoat.

Probably £35/£40 for wheels that size = £160 tops for mint wheels


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

Its Hydrochloric acid in that Concept concrete acid not Hydroflouric! Hydrochloric is pretty low hazard when diluted. Your stomach hasnt melted has it?

Autosmart have a specialist acid for Alloy wheel renovation called Ali and that contains Hydroflouric Acid. It works out around 12 quid for 5 LTS and will remove every bit of oxidisation on alloys leaving a base thats ready for prepping.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Sounds the job (and V nasty)


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

Epoch said:


> Sounds the job (and V nasty)


Its only nasty in the wrong hands really. As long as your careful with it and wear gloves/goggles/use in well ventilated area etc. its pretty safe.

It would remove every bit of brake dust and oxidisation from those wheels in the original post.

Lots of haulage firms use it on the alloy diesel tanks on their trucks to brighten them up.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

I wasn't being funny, i have this theory in life

If you want it removing bring out the big guns

Comes from buying Homebase earth friendly drain cleaner for about £10 (you know children and pet friendly) did nothing to the blockage - literally £10 down the drain

I then got some stuff from B&Q for £6 you know white box nasty haschem logo and very little else apart from wear gloves, face mask, well ventilated area, keep everything away etc. Pour it down drain - lots of smoke, bad smells and drain unblocks no problem.

Tools for the job

Brake dust nasty - need something strong to get it off if its bonded


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

The Doctor said:


> It would remove every bit of brake dust and oxidisation from those wheels in the original post.


TBH though, looking at the state of what's under the crud on this pic -










The OP may be better saving his money and going straight to wheel refurbishment. Even if he does get the crud off using a strong acid, the chances are that the paint on the wheels is already fubarred and not really worth cleaning up. There seems to be a lot of corrosion visible in the pics that'll really need to be dealt with before the wheels are painted, otherwise it'll just bubble straight back up.

We've seen quite a few sets of wheels where someone has used too strong a wheel cleaner, resulted in a finish on their wheels that seems to positivley attract dirt and grime to them.


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## edthedrummer (May 30, 2007)

L200Steve, i'm not trying to clean the paint up, i'm really trying to get it off completely. 

V12MSM I haven't got that kind of money to put into these wheels!! I wish i had, but at most i could probably stretch to about £50 for all 4/5 wheels to be done. 

I have access to a compressor and a cheap blasting gun. I also have access to air powered drills so i could get some wire attachments to it.


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

Steve,Ali will remove every bit of that crud leaving him with the bare bones to start sanding and prepping for a paint job. I wasnt under any illusions as to the state of the paint underneath. He said he wanted to remove the oxidisation and brake dust so he could paint the wheel and Ali will do exactly that. You even agree that the oxidisation needs to be removed before painting can be started so i dont really see what your getting at.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Totally agree Ali is strong stuff if not duluted or used properly.

But works wonder on the yuckiest of wheels.


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## edthedrummer (May 30, 2007)

How can i get hold of some autosmart "Ali" ?? What quantities is it available in, how much will i need, and where can i use it, i.e. i presume it can't be washed onto your garden? 

Sounds expensive as well.


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

Grizzle said:


> Totally agree Ali is strong stuff if not duluted or used properly.
> 
> But works wonder on the yuckiest of wheels.


To my Knowledge Griz,i dont know of any other wheel/alloy cleaner available off the shelf thats as strong. I certainly never come across any competitor products that are like it.

Some valetors use it for general wheel cleaning as well! I try to only recommend it for the worst jobs as a last resort and a one off clean.


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## Mark M (Nov 29, 2006)

I am all for the DIY stuff, been there done that, and I appreciate your budget.

But, if you are in no rush for the wheels, just save mate. Good things come to those who wait 

By the time you strip the paint, sand, fill/smooth, then paint I think you will easily go over budget. I may be wrong.

In addition, going by what many have said on here, and a friend, painted finishes don't last all that long.

If you are hard up, maybe try a car boot sale. I have only ever been to one, never even crossed my mind...took some junk and came back with £150 :lol:


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## edthedrummer (May 30, 2007)

Yeah tbh i think i'm going to look into getting them done professionally, but maybe see what i can do to save costs, i.e. do as much of the prep as possible. 

if anyone has any other suggestions though, bring em' on!! 

Cheers. 
Ed.


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## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

most places have a fixed price mate, so it might not be worth you doing anything to them at all to be honest, get your moneys worth from the refurber


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## edthedrummer (May 30, 2007)

What places are there? I presume its going to cost me a bomb in postage to get them there.


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

edthedrummer said:


> What places are there? I presume its going to cost me a bomb in postage to get them there.


Link :thumb:


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