# is this micro marring? Help!!! argh!!!!



## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

I used menz final finish on a LC hydrotech orange polishing pad. Didnt really do anything so i used power finish. Didnt take anything out either. I then used a cutting.pad with final.finish and slight improvement. I then used fast gloss on the same cutting.pad. Its taken most of.the scratches out but as the photo shows....im left with that....im not sure if i pushed too hard on the da....tried to keep 10lbs of pressure on. Did try and follow dave kg's guide but not sure where i went wrong and how to correct it. Cheers gents.


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## phazer (Apr 3, 2011)

Looks like it, you need to follow up the FG with a finishing polish as it has a much lower gloss level than even 203S (Power finish).


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## rob3rto (May 23, 2007)

To me (complete amateur but a perfectionist) that looks like contaminated pads.

The experts should be along soon.


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

phazer said:


> Looks like it, you need to follow up the FG with a finishing polish as it has a much lower gloss level than even 203S (Power finish).


I used super finish....but not seeing any results in removing the micromarring.how long should i be working in the polish? 3-4 mins?


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

What was your exact technique? And did you refine? What car is it?


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

rob3rto said:


> To me (complete amateur but a perfectionist) that looks like contaminated pads.
> 
> The experts should be along soon.


Pads are brand new. Maybe i put too much pressure when using the cutting pad


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

stangalang said:


> What was your exact technique? And did you refine? What car is it?


Its a bmw.

I put the polish on the pad and first rubbed it onto the surface i was polishing. I did wipe the surface down just before applying.the polish. Car was clayed etc today too. I started at setting 1 for a min then moved to speed 3 and then to 6. All for 1 min or so each speed. I was careful not to bog it down but breaking down the polish at the same time.


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## masammut (Jul 13, 2011)

To me it just looks like it has not been corrected at all. I have a BMW and it is not easy to correct with a DA. I managed using the Meg's MF system and 2 torn pads. The finish was perfect using that combination.


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

masammut said:


> To me it just looks like it has not been corrected at all. I have a BMW and it is not easy to correct with a DA. I managed using the Meg's MF system and 2 torn pads. The finish was perfect using that combination.


Ive taken most of the scratches out but the marring has ben caused by me using the da:
I thought id better stop and ask on here first before trying to correct.it with final finish.


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## Carshine (Nov 11, 2009)

Looks like swirls to me.. BMW paint is HARD!


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## masammut (Jul 13, 2011)

Carshine said:


> Looks like swirls to me.. BMW paint is HARD!


If you have only a DA to work with then I suggest that you invest in microfibre pads. I tried the Megs system which works but expect to go through a few pads. BMW paint is incredibly hard, but you will be rewarded with a superb finish when corrected well.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

I would say that the length of the lines of swirls they looked to be caused by wiping the surface. As in bad technique when cleaning. If you caused the problem with a rotary device they would be circular.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Just try a finishing polish and pad with a very long extended work time and assess the results. BMW paint CAN be very hard but there could be many other factors spoiling the finish. 
Finishing polish, finishing pad and box fresh towels, and just see what the results are


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

Ok gents. Im going to pack up and reply when i get home....before i **** something else.up...how should.i.clean these pads? Some car shampoo and.warm water? Cheers


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

I'm no expert or no knowledge in the machining side, but it looks like the paint needs further correcting, the others are right, German paint is hard.


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

Which MF did you use for buffing off the residues? It looks to me MF marring...


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## great gonzo (Nov 4, 2010)

I would take stangalang's advice. 
I have corrected Mercedes paint which is hard and I use 3 types of Menzerna polishes all with different hex pads, it takes a long time with a da but is rewarding when done.


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

ercapoccia said:


> Which MF did you use for buffing off the residues? It looks to me MF marring...


I use autoglym MF's. When i bought the car, there were the usual scratches. I have only started using the 2bm method etc for the past month and I've had the car over a year. I was also using a chamois up until 6 months ago until I switched to a Kent mf towel so I know alot of the scratches are down to me.


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

Andy from Sandy said:


> I would say that the length of the lines of swirls they looked to be caused by wiping the surface. As in bad technique when cleaning. If you caused the problem with a rotary device they would be circular.


But would they be the same when using a da?


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

masammut said:


> If you have only a DA to work with then I suggest that you invest in microfibre pads. I tried the Megs system which works but expect to go through a few pads. BMW paint is incredibly hard, but you will be rewarded with a superb finish when corrected well.


I'm going to try the LC pads again tomorrow....if I'm still no further I might go for the megs pads.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

NMH said:


> But would they be the same when using a da?


I think he means when removing the polish. That's why I suggested new cloths, it could be you ave marred the paint with contaminated, or old cloths when removing polish. The only way to see if this is the case is to change cloths, and the only way to see if they are deep or shallow is to try a finishing polish and be double sure you fully work the polish, then gently clean the surface after. You will know where you are upto then


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

stangalang said:


> Just try a finishing polish and pad with a very long extended work time and assess the results. BMW paint CAN be very hard but there could be many other factors spoiling the finish.
> Finishing polish, finishing pad and box fresh towels, and just see what the results are


OK.....should I use menz final finish or super finish? Also, how long should I be breaking the polish down for and should I 2 or 3 coats or is that overkill? Cheers


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

stangalang said:


> I think he means when removing the polish. That's why I suggested new cloths, it could be you ave marred the paint with contaminated, or old cloths when removing polish. The only way to see if this is the case is to change cloths, and the only way to see if they are deep or shallow is to try a finishing polish and be double sure you fully work the polish, then gently clean the surface after. You will know where you are upto then


Oh OK. I am careful with the mf's and do check them before using them. They are washed after each use but I do have a new autoglmyn one I will use tomorrow just to be sure.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

NMH said:


> OK.....should I use menz final finish or super finish? Also, how long should I be breaking the polish down for and should I 2 or 3 coats or is that overkill? Cheers


Just try final finish on a fishing pad. Spread on speed 2 for a couple of passes, up to 3.5 for a couple of passes, then up to speed 5 with heavy pressure and uber slow hand movements, make sure the machine is parallel with the body panel that way you know it's the pressure slowing the pad not the crooked machine. Work this till it lookslike thin Vaseline( almost clear) then come back down the machine a speed at a time for a couple of passes each time with lessening pressure. You should barely have to wipe thepolish but must never let it dry out. Think of it like filling a bucket, you can't turn the tap on full straight away or it will splash everywhere, you have to gradually build it up until it can fill at full force without spilling, then near the top you have to slow it down again for the same reason. It's a balancing act to fill the bucket as fast as possible, polishing is the same and just requires a little practice


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

stangalang said:


> Just try final finish on a fishing pad. Spread on speed 2 for a couple of passes, up to 3.5 for a couple of passes, then up to speed 5 with heavy pressure and uber slow hand movements, make sure the machine is parallel with the body panel that way you know it's the pressure slowing the pad not the crooked machine. Work this till it lookslike thin Vaseline( almost clear) then come back down the machine a speed at a time for a couple of passes each time with lessening pressure. You should barely have to wipe thepolish but must never let it dry out. Think of it like filling a bucket, you can't turn the tap on full straight away or it will splash everywhere, you have to gradually build it up until it can fill at full force without spilling, then near the top you have to slow it down again for the same reason. It's a balancing act to fill the bucket as fast as possible, polishing is the same and just requires a little practice


Thanks alot fella!! Will be having another crack at it in the morning.


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

Still not getting anywhere with avoiding micro marring.

Microfibre cloths changed as it did look like they were marring the paint. I still could not remove the marring with Stangalangs technique. Having said that.....how many coats of polish do you guys apply on hard paint to remove micro marring? I was using Menz Final Finish on a LC hydrotech polishing pad which is now dipping in the centre too. I polished one side of the car and I can see micro marring too. I'm really stuck on what the problem is. I even waited for the panel to cool for a min before wiping off any excess polish and triedwiping straight away too. Made no difference!


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## hedgegee (May 20, 2012)

NMH said:


> Still not getting anywhere with avoiding micro marring.
> 
> Microfibre cloths changed as it did look like they were marring the paint. I still could not remove the marring with Stangalangs technique. Having said that.....how many coats of polish do you guys apply on hard paint to remove micro marring? I was using Menz Final Finish on a LC hydrotech polishing pad which is now dipping in the centre too. I polished one side of the car and I can see micro marring too. I'm really stuck on what the problem is. I even waited for the panel to cool for a min before wiping off any excess polish and triedwiping straight away too. Made no difference!


You probably need to rethink your polishing techniques and with a DA polisher you need stronger stuff in my opinion. I know this stuff works: http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/menzerna-250ml-polish-sample-kit.php?cPath=27

LC pads probably won't make a difference because you need som stronger polish to correct that in my opinion.

Polishing with a DA on hard paint is hard (lol?) without the right stuff


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## Carshine (Nov 11, 2009)

Have a go with the Meguiars #105


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

hedgee said:


> You probably need to rethink your polishing techniques and with a DA polisher you need stronger stuff in my opinion. I know this stuff works: http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/menzerna-250ml-polish-sample-kit.php?cPath=27
> 
> LC pads probably won't make a difference because you need som stronger polish to correct that in my opinion.
> 
> Polishing with a DA on hard paint is hard (lol?) without the right stuff


I've had a look at many official videos on da techniques and followed Stangalangs advice. I've started off with spreading the polishing at speed 1 or 2, then moved up to speed 3 with light pressure for 1 or 2 passes then up to 5 with moderate pressure and very slow passes until the polish is very clear.

It seems like I do need stronger polish but I honestly thought the menz polishes I bought would be fine. I thought fast gloss cut would be enough too.


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

Carshine said:


> Have a go with the Meguiars #105


How does this compare against the menz polishes?


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

I've just realised I've got power and super finish.....its the intensive I havent got. I have tried both on yesterdays attempt.


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## hedgegee (May 20, 2012)

Yeah i didn't mean like you did anything wrong but especially with the pressure most people really have it wrong. In the beginning i used a scale to check how much pressure i used and then looked around the web to see how much is required and i saw my error = to little pressure. 

On a scale i would recommend like 0-5-10-15kgs with a DA - depending on which pad you use of course. 

With the products i know what you mean - i thought PB SSR1 was enough in the beginning on a Golf mk3. I was wrong lol


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

I've tried applying more pressure and ended up chipping away the back of the pad as the backing plate was hitting it. What pads do you use?


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## hedgegee (May 20, 2012)

I'm sorry but i don't understand the first sentence? 

I currently use Lake Country CCS http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/polishing/lake-country-4-spot-pads/cat_80.html

I want to try out the Hexlogic pads though as i have heard good things.


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

When i was applying pressure on.the pad when polishing i was pressing quite hard tjat the baxking plate was hitting the back of my pad.....heres a photo


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## hedgegee (May 20, 2012)

Ah i see - yeah that is a little too hard maybe :lol: 

I don't like the Menzerna pads (which i presume that is?)

It looks like you just need new product and then it will be good if you don't pressure too much


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

Its a lake country hydrotech pad. Is there much of a difference between a polishing pad and a finishing pad


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

Hi guys. Ive made 2 videos showing the problem.any advice would be great.


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)




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## toni (Oct 30, 2005)

NMH said:


> I've had a look at many official videos on da techniques and followed Stangalangs advice. I've started off with spreading the polishing at speed 1 or 2, t*hen moved up to speed 3* with light pressure for 1 or 2 passes then up to 5 with moderate pressure and very slow passes until the polish is very clear.
> 
> It seems like I do need stronger polish but I honestly thought the menz polishes I bought would be fine. I thought fast gloss cut would be enough too.


That's your problem! Bump it up to 5 or 6 and keep working the polish for longer, like 8-10 section passes. Then you'll see some results.


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

toni said:


> That's your problem! Bump it up to 5 or 6 and keep working the polish for longer, like 8-10 section passes. Then you'll see some results.


So i should spread the polish on speed 2 then straight up to 5 or 6?


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## toni (Oct 30, 2005)

Yup. You need high speed and medium/high pressure on a DA to achieve correction, especially on hard paint.
Have a read at Dave KG's guide on how to use it.


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## strongman (May 18, 2012)

I was working on MF system pads on BMW so many times
Always awesome result
Cuttind pad speed 4500 3-4passes
Finishing pad speed 3500 3-4passes


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## Buck (Jan 16, 2008)

To me it looks like you haven't worked the polish well enough - I did the same when I was first detailing.

On top of hwat has been said, make sure you don't work too big an area - keep the area down to no more than 60cm x 60cm, keep the speed up for the main part of the set and keep reasonable pressure - too much is as bad as too little as you will prevent the pad/polish combo from working. Also, watch out for your polish drying out (particularly in the current weather)

A good panel to practice on will be your boot or bonnet as it is easier to handle the DA - mask off a section and have a go.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Ok here is what to do. Give a panel a thorough ipa wipedown whilst it's cool. Make sure it's dry. Park it in thevsun then use a different cloth and wipe horizontally across the panel, do the marks follow where you wipe? Then wipe vertically, do the marks change direction? If so it's a cloth issue. If not I reckon it's a techniQue issue with the da and you aren't breaking thepolish down enough, OR either the pad or polish is harsher than you think

The videos show (to me) they are right on the surface not deep marks


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## dohc-vtec (Mar 19, 2010)

This is not DA micro marring. DA micro marring is half moon marks where as this is clearly made from his wipeoff technique. Any of these things could of caused it:

Pressing too hard on MF during wipeoff
Not allowing the abrasives to fully fracture before wipeoff
Allowing the polish to dry out before wipeoff
Dirty MF's
Old or worn MF's
Dust/grit between the paint and MF if not wiped off right after the set


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

strongman said:


> I was working on MF system pads on BMW so many times
> Always awesome result
> Cuttind pad speed 4500 3-4passes
> Finishing pad speed 3500 3-4passes


Ive just destroyed my LC Hydrotech pad! Haven't even done a full car with it!! I hear MF are good but wear out quick.


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