# Zymol Atomic Graphene Shield - Testing



## Muska

*Zymol Atomic Graphene Shield - Initial thoughts*










As a bit of an early adopter for this product I thought it might be beneficial to offer some insight into how I find it. I've no experience of a Graphene product and previously on my R32 I've been very happy with 2 coats of Gyeon CanCoat topped with Polish Angel high Gloss or Zaino Grand Finale.

Before I consider stripping things back and applying to my car the test bed will be the Wife's White A Class! She does around 3/400 miles a week and depending on my shift pattern it can go from 1 week to 2 weeks between maintenance washes. I've used only the bonnet for now, which had no prior coating applied.

Washed with CarPro Reset (all future washes will be with this shampoo also)
Prepped with CarPro Eraser.
CanCoat applied to drivers side with a microfiber applicator
Zymol Atomic Graphene shield applied to passenger side with a microfiber applicator.

First thoughts. It definitely goes on easy. Not 'grabby' when buffing off like CanCoat can be and definitely more slickness on that half of the panel.

I've not told the Wife which side is which, so she can give an unbiased opinion. The car is daily driven so I'll see what water behaviour is like over the weekend after CanCoat is cured and I'll go from there.









Offside









Nearside, obviously neither showing too much, white car not helping much there either.

If there are any requests I'll be happy to take them. I was thinking for the first couple of weeks to observe and wash as normal. After that I do have products such as CarPro Multi X, Surfex, Bilt Hamber Auto Foam if chemical resistance would be helpful.

*Just to be clear this is not intended to be a scientific test. I look forward to watching those on YouTube 

Hopefully this proves useful. I've not done anything like this before so please feel free to steer me if needed! I'll try to include plenty of images and short video clips to support.


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## straight6hatch

Great idea! Always handy to get a first hand review of a new product. Its geared up to be the replacement for the 'ceramic' spray sealants which appeal to me at the moment. Be interesting to see some beading and of course, longjevity!

Out of interest, I noticed when you prepped the surface you used Carpro Eraser. I was under the impression that this product was more designed to remove polish and oils rather than a decon like you'd expect for applying a sealant. Have I got this right or am I way off? Either way, interested to see the results!


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## RaceGlazer

Thank you for posting this.

I just hope your wife doesn't read DW !


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## Alan W

Nice review and thanks for posting - look forward to updates. :thumb:



Muska said:


> I was thinking for the first couple of weeks to observe and wash as normal. After that I do have products such as CarPro Multi X, Surfex, Bilt Hamber Auto Foam if chemical resistance would be helpful.


No need for 'chemical resistance' testing in my opinion, I'd much prefer to see normal/regular washes to prove real world durability. 

Alan W


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## Muska

straight6hatch said:


> Out of interest, I noticed when you prepped the surface you used Carpro Eraser. I was under the impression that this product was more designed to remove polish and oils rather than a decon like you'd expect for applying a sealant. Have I got this right or am I way off? Either way, interested to see the results!


Thanks, good question! The CarPro blurb states it should prep a panel better than just an IPA mix. I clayed the car when we first got it around April so relatively happy it shouldn't need too much in the way of decon, although it wouldn't have hurt.


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## cangri

Great test. Let`s see the results.


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## nicks16v

Nice, thanks for taking the time to test it, I'm sure that we are all wondering how Atomic it really is. 
As above, no need for chemical resistance for me, just a real world test on how it fairs against the can coat side will do me. 

Will be interesting to see how it stacks up to can coat, I'm sure that this is just the start of many new 'Graphene' (maybe not atomic ones) spray sealants that will start to pop up from other manufacturers, but it will be interesting to see how much this is down to the 'Graphene' in it (not sure how much is actually in it) or down to something else in it.


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## straight6hatch

Muska said:


> Thanks, good question! The CarPro blurb states it should prep a panel better than just an IPA mix. I clayed the car when we first got it around April so relatively happy it shouldn't need too much in the way of decon, although it wouldn't have hurt.


Thank you! 
I have a part bottle of it kicking about somewhere that I used in June after a machine polish. I found it did what it said on the tin! I think my only disappointment with it was that it doesnt strip existing sealants (seemingly nothing does with these concrete like sealants lol).

Cant argue with your logic if its been decon'd in April. Also, interestingly, I would be applying this over the top of whatever I had with minimal prep as I dont often get time. So, in reality, your test actually works better for me as a real world idea :lol:


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## bildo

Fascinated to see how this goes, thanks for doing the test.

I tried doing a bit of research on this product to see if there was anything else online, and I stumbled upon this thread, which may help others further down the line:
https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-...on/191842-zymol-atomic-graphene-shield-3.html

Long story short, someone applied it over CQuartz UK, which they'd attempted to remove by machine polishing wth Reflect, which looked like it had done so with a water test. This was followed up with Eraser.

Next day, the paint didn't look 'clear', and after talking to the Zymol CEO (they're clearly trying hard with this product) he was informed that he HAS to use HD Cleanse (NEW formula) as it contains Sio2 cleaners to remove things properly. An entire bottle of HD Cleanse, to be precise.

Doing so eventually seemed to rectify the issue.

Although they seem happy since then, it does go to show that initial prep may be important with this product.

I'm hoping that it's as good as Zymol are making out, but I am naturally skeptical of most new 'groundbreaking' products - I really hope it proves me wrong.

Chances are that OP won't see this 'lack of clarity' on white paint, so it could be good to see it on a darker car, too, if possible.

I'd also like to see how it does with typical maintenance on one car, and the harsh chemicals idea on another.


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## atbalfour

In relation to maintenance washes, just do whatever you normally do. 

If you wash your car with a snow foam each wash (as I do) then continue to do that - if you don't then don't. Make the test work for you rather than us 

The one thing I would say about Cancoat (same may apply to the Zymol, no idea) is to leave it 7 days before washing.


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## budgetplan1

Thanks for doing this, Gyeon Cancoat is a worthy comparison for sure...great stuff. Will be interesting to see if it can stand proudly next to 'Atomic Graphene' or will wilt in the face of burgeoning atomic technology. Curious if you wore any radiation protection given the proximity to 'Atomic Graphene'?


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## Alan W

I found the following quotes on Zymol reseller's websites and the first one may explain the streaking experienced by the user over on the Autopia Forum:

*It's an alternative to wax or ceramic, and not designed to go over either. Durability is years rather than months.*

The second quote suggests we may be waiting some time for Muska's report on durability:

*Unlike silicones, waxes and polymers that 'sit' on a painted surface, Graphene bonds atomically with the paint. This gives it durability of 18-24 months.*

Wishful thinking? I hope not, but time will tell.

Alan W


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## DIESEL DAVE

Tried mine straight onto a ONR washed Can coated Hilux roof and bonnet.
No issues, very reflective.


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## Alan W

Point 7. in the application instructions appears a little strange.

After applying the product, spreading it and letting it sit for 90-120 seconds you *spray again* before buffing off. 

Alan W


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## Yellow Dave

So it’s another product similar to the likes of reload or C2 that claim to last 6-9 months, but with the latest buzzword chemical graphene instead of Si02. And already sounds like a finicky application. At a hefty price too. 

I’ll be surprised if this outlasts cancoat in a proper test, but personally I would have done more prep to remove previous products than a wash with reset and eraser wipe down.


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## Muska

It actually claims a durability of 18-24 months, so it should far outlast CanCoat (as much as I love that product)

Hopefully some reviews start popping up soon as I couldn't find anything at all on youTube.


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## straight6hatch

Yellow Dave said:


> So it's another product similar to the likes of reload or C2 that claim to last 6-9 months, but with the latest buzzword chemical graphene instead of Si02. And already sounds like a finicky application. At a hefty price too.
> 
> I'll be surprised if this outlasts cancoat in a proper test, but personally I would have done more prep to remove previous products than a wash with reset and eraser wipe down.


I for one hope you are incorrect but wouldnt be surprised if you're spot on! Its such a shame that even in my short time being passionate about detailing, what you have said about buzzwords is SO true. 'Ceramic' is my peeve at the moment.

I've said above though, I quite like that the OP hasnt prepped the panel to the n'th degree as someone like myself ( a weekend warrior) wouldnt necessarily have the time and it would be great to compare this against other 'lazy' spray sealants where prep isnt everything. Suppose, in a way, theyre giving it the worst chance at bonding not doing a full decon but by the same account we then get a 'worst case scenario' from the test


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## Muska

Continuing with my not very scientific thoughts 

I sprayed over the panel with a hose from my DI Vessel, keen to observe the water behaviour (prior to any washing, so take as you will)

After a short rinse I misted the panel:








Some nice fairly uniform beading from Zymol









Tighter and even more uniform from CanCoat

I thought CanCoat definitely edged the water behaviour, noticeably so. What do you think? Here is a short clip on the 'flat' trigger setting.





(Is it possible to embed video's on this forum?)


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## atbalfour

Initial beading is impressive and seems to sheet nicely too.


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## budgetplan1

atbalfour said:


> Initial beading is impressive and seems to sheet nicely too.


Question is, are the hydrophobic characteristics due to graphene?

Is graphene Hydrophobic or Hydrophillic?

Now I ain't saying I understand all this but it appears as if it has something to do with the thickness of the graphene layer. I think in thin layers, it's actually hydrophillic. And as Albert Yow of SPS mentions, the excellent water behavior of their graphene coating is due to amped up PDMS as opposed to the graphene which is there primarily as an ?insulator? in hopes of keeping surface temps down. :shrug:

https://www.msesupplies.com/blogs/news/is-graphene-hydrophilic-or-hydrophobic

Quite interesting regardless


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## nicks16v

Im waiting for Atomic Diamond Sealant for next year.


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## Yellow Dave

The way things are moving, I’m going to stick with my current products of an Si02 base until things really take a step forward and move onto tricalcium silicate sealants


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## Muska

I think the Wife is invested in how this product performs on her paint. If only she cared enough to clean it with me too!

I got this picture from her works car park after some rain:










Almost a week since application, I may give it's first wash tonight if I have time.


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## Kenan

The beading from the zymol looks great, much nicer than the cancoat. Was thing of getting cancoat, but this might sway me to the zymol

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk


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## Muska

Just to be clear from the initial post, Zymol is on the right & CanCoat is on the left.

Personally I much prefer the CanCoat as I like the fine, tight uniform beading look. It also looks like it might be naturally sheeting better too.


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## Alan W

Muska said:


> Personally I much prefer the CanCoat as I like the fine, tight uniform beading look. It also looks like it might be naturally sheeting better too.


The CanCoat on the nearside looks much better to me as well with smaller and tighter beads and there is a less water left on the panel indicating better run off also as you say. :thumb:

Alan W


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## Brian1612

Looks like a few people need to visit an opticians ASAP. Cancoat looks far better, it's self cleaning ability will be helping no doubt.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## percymon

Interesting product and great real world test. The right side in that last picture is what I’d expect from BSD after a weeks driving in normal late summer weather. Be good to see how it holds up to normal washing regimes


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## Kenan

Brian1612 said:


> Looks like a few people need to visit an opticians ASAP. Cancoat looks far better, it's self cleaning ability will be helping no doubt.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


I got the products the wrong way round . .

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk


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## Brian1612

Easily done Kenan! The wording of the original post was a little confusing.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## RaceGlazer

I'm totally confused - OP says 'Zymol Atomic Graphene shield applied to offside half' which in the UK (given that the steering wheel shows the car is RHD) is the drivers side (side furthest from the kerb when driving) - or the left as you look at the car from the front.


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## Alan W

RaceGlazer said:


> I'm totally confused - OP says 'Zymol Atomic Graphene shield applied to offside half' which in the UK (given that the steering wheel shows the car is RHD) is the drivers side (side furthest from the kerb when driving) - or the left as you look at the car from the front.


Muska corrected himself in Post 25 Mark, as below. 



Muska said:


> Just to be clear from the initial post, Zymol is on the right & CanCoat is on the left.


Alan W


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## Muska

I can see how I've added the confusion here, my apologies! 

I've adjusted the OP to hopefully avoid any future confusion.


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## budgetplan1

Need to turn down the lights in the room where you are viewing pics and you can clearly see the "Atomic Graphene" side giving off a radioactive glow...:devil:


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## Alan W

budgetplan1 said:


> Need to turn down the lights in the room where you are viewing pics and you can clearly see the "Atomic Graphene" side giving off a radioactive glow...:devil:


I can feel the heat from here! :devil:

Alan W


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## broncoupe

Bought it tried it on 2 cars not buying into it really disappointing when you have used Zymol waxs
This is an application method I used to stop me throwing the bottle over the fence 
Assuming car is clean and prepared to your standard 
1-Couple of sprays in the middle of the panel 
2-Spray a microfibre applicator with Zymol and spread product over panel
should be wet not dripping
3-leave for 2 mins if you have the right amount on the panel with your original applicator pad re wetted it feels just a bit grabby as you reapply
4-Now Wipe with another Microfibre cloth this gets damp really quick , so have another microfibre to hand keep going until your happy panel is dry 
5-wait about 5 mins recheck panel and it has become noticeably slicker and reflective
good on headlight plastics and shiny plastic trim 
Really think Zymol America have done themselves no favours by not putting out an application video


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## RaceGlazer

Thank you for purchasing and posting this - very similar to the instructions on the bottle which I think are clear as day.

I cant see how an application video is at all necessary.

I didnt find it grabby at all tbh. Yes, cloth was wet, as I may have been trigger happy, but that is surely to ensure you have a fully even coat, as its not a product you need to reapply regularly (durability 18-24 months) so you cant make up for a missed patch next time really.

I also found the panel slick, smooth and having driven the car I applied it to into work today, the brightness caught my eye on the driveway.


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## LeeH

I’m totally confused. 

From the photo as you look at it which is which? 


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## Brian1612

LeeH said:


> I'm totally confused.
> 
> From the photo as you look at it which is which?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Cancoat on drivers side (offside) & Zymol on the passengers (nearside).

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## budgetplan1

Brian1612 said:


> Cancoat on drivers side (offside) & Zymol on the passengers (nearside).
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


Like this?


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## broncoupe

Understand you defending a product you sell 
Detailers World is a discussion forum and that is how i am using it 
Giving my opinion
I have given honest and fair comments based on my own user experience of 2 vehicles 2017 Bentley Mulsanne and a 2004 Mini 
Just for your information the client was more than happy with the finish of his vehicle (Bentley) 
DW exists to be informative and a discussion site for enthusiasts and professionals thought that was how i was using it


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## Alan W

The application method certainly appears unusual and hence why I would agree that a video would assist to clarify how to apply the product.

This would ensure it is used properly and provide optimum performance and durability.

Alan W


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## LeeH

budgetplan1 said:


> Like this?


Can coat looks better in my eyes. I presume the colour difference is just the angle of the bonnet?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## RaceGlazer

I shall pass the requests for an application video over to Zymol.

My opinion posted on here as a user, in the same way as everyone elses, is in this context just that - as a user. 
Yes, we are the importer, and are obviously going to promote the product and defend it if its unfairly criticised, which it hasnt been yet. 

Pleased to hear customers are already seeing it on cars and that they like the results.

Its early days for usability testing, especially when we get to colder times which the US maybe has had less exposure to.


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## Alan W

Any updates on this Muska? 

It would be good to know how the product is fairing a month after application. :thumb:

Alan W


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## Titanium Htail

Alfred Yow brought us Art de Shine on here at DW in 2012, he is now developing graphene products, they have a dedicated forum..

Graphene to that extent is new technology time will tell if it is effective as suggested.

John Tht.


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## Brian1612

budgetplan1 said:


> Like this?


That's it 

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## atbalfour

Well Brian's review was.. interesting.

OP how are you finding it? Hopefully you haven't taken the dreaded pH neutral shampoo to that harder and more durable than ceramic atomic shield 

Joking aside, hope he's received a dud bottle and yours is faring better 

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Titanium Htail

Bonding to the paint in not the issue, you can add Graphene, the capability is on the capacity of that chicken wire construct on the top surface with uniformity. Theoretically if as suggested you added Graphene to any product or would improve the performance, the technicality of how those bonded shaped can be made to combine in the top surface it never explained, rather the benefits of Graphene as an entity which nobody is denying. 

Ethos suggest they have found a unique way, that in itself may well be a technical idea that any successful company would want to keep secret. 

Chicago Auto Pro went to visit Dr Beasley's, he mentioned the challenge of getting the structure correct plus the challenges that entails.

I love my Zymöl products I wish you well in this valuable test. Thank you.

John Tht.


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## Titanium Htail

Tim from Ethos giving his assessment of his own product plus general Graphene capabilities. 
He mentioned the contact angle of 116 after what is demmed 5000 Scrubs..






John Tht.


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## AndyQash

atbalfour said:


> Well Brian's review was.. interesting.
> 
> OP how are you finding it? Hopefully you haven't taken the dreaded pH neutral shampoo to that harder and more durable than ceramic atomic shield
> 
> Joking aside, hope he's received a dud bottle and yours is faring better
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


Just watched, Brian's review, he must have had a dodgy bottle as it surely can't be that bad :doublesho that it can't stand up to one pass with a soapy mitt.


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## Alan W

atbalfour said:


> Well Brian's review was.. interesting.


I don't think I've ever seen a product do so poorly in a review on Apex Detail. Zymol waxes were the pinnacle of LSP's when I started detailing almost 20 years ago and I sincerely hope that Brian received a bottle from a faulty batch.

Alan W


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## RaceGlazer

I have a number of issues with this review and posted same on the video.

1. Initially, the reviewer states the Corvette was 'properly prepped' - what does that mean ? The panel should have all residues of compound etc removed before application, I saw no evidence of a paint cleaner such as Zymols HD-Cleanse or careful use of panel wipe or similar being used on the 'vette nor the test panel later , so suggest the product wasn't properly bonding to the surface, hence the results later in the test. 

2. What relevance is the heat test ? Who leaves a car outside in 220 degrees ? A cold weather test would be far more use.

3. The beading test - what a joke - that's a flat panel and the product rejected the water. How about some real world testing on a sloping panel ? If the objective a beading test is 'how much water is left on the panel' then within seconds much of it was dry !

4. To suggest it lasts only 1 wash is clearly showing that application was incorrect. Does the reviewer seriously think a company of Zymols stature and reputation would produce such a product ? Should the reviewer not have questioned his methodology at this point ?


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## DIESEL DAVE

Brian knows his stuff and definitely one of the best at testing products so I take his findings very seriously which are similar to my disappointing results with the product, so bad in fact Id send it back if I could and Ive never had to do that before.


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## atbalfour

RaceGlazer said:


> I have a number of issues with this review and posted same on the video.
> 
> 1. Initially, the reviewer states the Corvette was 'properly prepped' - what does that mean ? The panel should have all residues of compound etc removed before application, I saw no evidence of a paint cleaner such as Zymols HD-Cleanse or careful use of panel wipe or similar being used on the 'vette nor the test panel later , so suggest the product wasn't properly bonding to the surface, hence the results later in the test.
> 
> 2. What relevance is the heat test ? Who leaves a car outside in 220 degrees ? A cold weather test would be far more use.
> 
> 3. The beading test - what a joke - that's a flat panel and the product rejected the water. How about some real world testing on a sloping panel ? If the objective a beading test is 'how much water is left on the panel' then within seconds much of it was dry !
> 
> 4. To suggest it lasts only 1 wash is clearly showing that application was incorrect. Does the reviewer seriously think a company of Zymols stature and reputation would produce such a product ? Should the reviewer not have questioned his methodology at this point ?


Again I can understand your defence of a product you stock but I think you're barking up the wrong tree when it comes to pointing the finger at a pro detailer's methodology, which as I see it is pretty much identical to what Zymol suggest.

He doesn't mention prep because it's kinda obvious. He tests hundreds of LSPs using the same panel and methodology - those tests, incl heat, the panel angle etc is all the same and this product performs poorly in comparison, those are feeble excuses. In some videos he includes the panel wipe stage in the footage, others he edits it out. Whether he used HD Cleanse or a regular IPA/Panel Prep not isn't important, if that's a required product to get an adequate bond then Zymol/resellers should sell them as part of a package...

If a pro detailer is doing something wrong, it's not a product for the masses as Zymol suggest - had my suspicions, it's uncommon to see something so 'hard' and 'durable' come in a cheap plastic QD bottle. Zymol describe themselves as "the worlds No. 1 in car care" - theme emerging....

I had watched the review and put this down to a faulty batch, but actually the OPs initial beading shots weren't much better than what Brian saw on first rinse - I'd just suggest it's an overhyped product and if that's it's initial performance I'd not be touching it with a barge pole at that price point. The above poster also seemed to be underwhelmed... answers required Zymol!


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## Muska

Apologies for the delay, life has got in the way a bit.

I am about as impressed as Brian was if I'm honest.

Probably 3 weeks ago as I was setting up to wash, giving a pre rinse and it looked like the product wasn't performing very well, at the time I imagined due to being dirty and some performance would return following a wash. CanCoat on the other hand, despite being under dirt/dust was easily noticeable and performing great!

Following a full wash (CarPro Reset) and rinse things just hadn't improved for the Zymol. Not quite like in Brian's testing above, but it was hardly showing any hydrophobicity and was no longer as slick to the touch as CanCoat. I'm quite gobsmacked by how poor it looked after Brian put two test coats on his test panel, I've never seen anything perform so poorly, has it been confirmed he had a faulty batch?

I knew at this point that this product wasn't for me. I think the complete lack of reviews, or finding much on the web has not helped it either. I'm aware that I didn't use HD Clense (neither did Brian by the looks of things) but that said, I would still expect more from this.

I went on to coat the car in Polish Angel RapidWax which I'm far, far happier with.

Perhaps as I have no intention of using the 95%+ that's left, to save it going to waste we could do some sort of pass around with it, let lots of people give it a try and see what they think too? Is that something we could arrange outside of the members market?


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## RaceGlazer

I'm not going to comment further as I'm fairly astounded by these responses.


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## DIESEL DAVE

RaceGlazer said:


> I'm not going to comment further as I'm fairly astounded by these responses.


Likewise by this products lack of performance, would like to hear the views of Zymol


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## Alan W

RaceGlazer said:


> I'm not going to comment further as I'm fairly astounded by these responses.


I can understand your frustration Mark but if you look at this from the perspective of a potential user the 3 users so far (Brian at Apex Detail, Muska and DIESEL DAVE) have all suffered from poor durability to say the least and the product also took a bashing on Autopia if I remember correctly.

Your website states 18/24 months durability (no durability is stated on Zymol.com) so please demonstrate how this can be achieved and what people are doing wrong.

Zymol has a great heritage and reputation so help to maintain this and assist with answers and advice on this Thread please.

Thanks,

Alan W


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## DIESEL DAVE

Excellent post Alan W my sentiments exactly, not product bashing for the sake of it but needing a few answers to a product delivering far less than expectations.


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## RaceGlazer

I have asked Zymol to view that test and the durability figures I gave were obtained from them, as I knew its what you folks would need.


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## atbalfour

RaceGlazer said:


> I'm not going to comment further as I'm fairly astounded by these responses.




Or more likely because you can't provide a response that justifies why it's not living up to expectations for multiple users across the world. If it's a faulty batch it's a big and widely distributed one..

By defending that ("but it's Zymol" doesn't cut it) and finger pointing at those applying it you have to expect people to question you.

Refer the question on to Zymol and let the manufacturer do the talking if you don't know.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## broncoupe

Pleased to see from comments that what i stated was fair and accurate in my experience
However shows the benefit of DW members sharing views
Who remembers new recipe Coca Cola even the biggest can get it wrong


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## atbalfour

broncoupe said:


> Pleased to see from comments that what i stated was fair and accurate in my experience
> However shows the benefit of DW members sharing views
> Who remembers new recipe Coca Cola even the biggest can get it wrong


How did it hold up for you broncoupe?

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Kenan

Muska said:


> Apologies for the delay, life has got in the way a bit.
> 
> I am about as impressed as Brian was if I'm honest.
> 
> Probably 3 weeks ago as I was setting up to wash, giving a pre rinse and it looked like the product wasn't performing very well, at the time I imagined due to being dirty and some performance would return following a wash. CanCoat on the other hand, despite being under dirt/dust was easily noticeable and performing great!
> 
> Following a full wash (CarPro Reset) and rinse things just hadn't improved for the Zymol. Not quite like in Brian's testing above, but it was hardly showing any hydrophobicity and was no longer as slick to the touch as CanCoat. I'm quite gobsmacked by how poor it looked after Brian put two test coats on his test panel, I've never seen anything perform so poorly, has it been confirmed he had a faulty batch?
> 
> I knew at this point that this product wasn't for me. I think the complete lack of reviews, or finding much on the web has not helped it either. I'm aware that I didn't use HD Clense (neither did Brian by the looks of things) but that said, I would still expect more from this.
> 
> I went on to coat the car in Polish Angel RapidWax which I'm far, far happier with.
> 
> Perhaps as I have no intention of using the 95%+ that's left, to save it going to waste we could do some sort of pass around with it, let lots of people give it a try and see what they think too? Is that something we could arrange outside of the members market?


You could put it into sample/small bottles and post them out. I'd be happy to pay towards a sample coming my way to test.

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## Loach

I don't see any reason to believe that Brian received a bad batch, I've not seen any evidence from anyone else that Zymol Atomic Graphene Shield is going to provide the kind of hydrophobics that most consumers and users are going to be satisfied with.

Zymol has to be the one to do their market research and product testing to either give the people what they want to see before they release it, or explain to everyone why what they're seeing is more beneficial compared to what they're accustomed to seeing when it comes to water behaviour. Which would be a tough argument to make in the case of this Atomic Graphene Shield, because as most people know, Zymol waxes have some of the absolute best hydrophobic reactions out of all products out there, at least for a few days when fresh. So you can't really position Graphene Shield with its much lower surface tension as being this incredible game changer while at the same time expecting to sell waxes that showcase extreme hydrophobics, unless your argument is really well articulated.

All that being said, I would seriously doubt that the product is being fully removed after one wash. Miller325ci reached out to me who bought Atomic Graphene Shield a few months ago and has been seeing a weird behaviour out of it, showing that it doesn't have a very durable short term surface tension at all, but it rebounds well after allowing it to sit for a bit. He's sprayed some water on it out of a mist bottle sprayer showing some decent beading, and then wiped dry with a towel, resprayed immediately and the water beads go much flatter. Wait a few hours or the next day, spray again and the beading comes back to life.

He sent me some pictures to showcase this below.

Spray bottle water mist:









Towel wipe dry, then immediate re-mist:









Next day, spray bottle mist:









So its water behaviour is very fragile, but rebounds to a noticeable degree in his results. Bring wash soap and a mitt into the mix with a touch wash and you're likely to get an even bigger hydrophobic hit out of it until allowing it to settle for some time. And as I've seen before, even if you're using a soap that's not really designed to leave anything behind during the rinse phase, the less hydrophobic a product becomes, usually the more impacted it becomes by the soap and wash process. Your crazy hydrophobic fresh waxes like Zymol Carbon/Glasur/Titanium will laugh a heavy Dawn dish soap off the paint super quick even though Dawn's surfactants can be difficult to "fully" rinse without a towel wipe, while bare style soaps like CarPro Reset can take a much less hydrophobic protectant and cause it to sheet and bead much flatter after a wash until you towel dry it and re-rinse. The chemistry that defines surface tension can be very tricky, especially when we're trying to use it to identify whether or not a protectant has been fully diminished or not.

After seeing Miller's results I've decided I'm going to grab this stuff and run some tests with it. Obviously this isn't the type of product that fits my preferences at all since I'm a hydrophobic maniac, but there's probably a lot to observe and learn from these less hydrophobic products that are showcasing a rebounding effect after sitting for a little bit.


----------



## Turbo Tony

I bought Zymol Atomic Graphene, mainly because it was being released at exactly the time I needed something to coat my car. I’d spent more hours than I can count polishing it during lockdown.

Sadly, I can’t offer an opinion as to it’s longevity yet because I coated over the top of the sealant with Zymol Vintage wax. Having seen Brian’s video, I’m really crestfallen. I’ve seen dozens of his reviews and even requested that he test the ZAG sealant. 

When it was first put on my car, I have to echo the thoughts of the other posters in that it was crazy slick and the car looked great. Yes, the application is slightly strange but not enough to bother me or, in my opinion, factor into whether or not I purchased the product.

I took the car out and it rained all day on a motorway run. The car ran into a mechanical issue, so it’s now back in the garage and filthy after that day of driving, so I have no idea how well the ZAG/Vintage combo has held up. I’ve used Vintage before and it was pretty darned amazing but I hate to think what awaits me once it’s worn off.


----------



## RaceGlazer

As requested, I have raised this test with Chuck Bennet, the CEO of Zymol in the US and he responded last night and reiterates my comments. Simply, there were errors in the application. 

I will cover these directly with the reviewer and post up later this week.

Update 15/10/20: I have now had e-mail discussion with Chuck and other Zymol HQ colleagues, there will be responses coming direct from them to clarify correct usage of the product, with more information to come and 'how to' instructions.


----------



## broncoupe

Its maintained by clients driver so quality of wash will not be good 
On average client changes car maximum of six months so this will be a good real world test for product
Will post on cars return 
Seen comments made by RaceGlazer he's only responding based on Zymols comments to him 
In the US Zymol are held in a revered position read that as dont have to try too
hard 
Think they dont understand us here in Uk we accept nothing except great results or a fair explanation


----------



## Turbo Tony

RaceGlazer said:


> there will be responses coming direct from them to clarify correct usage of the product, with more information to come and 'how to' instructions.


Thanks Mark. May I ask where these updates will be posted?


----------



## RaceGlazer

I will post them when I receive them, there is quite a lot going on, so i will try to signpost them 

One thing is clear, other than the prep already mentioned, is that you do need to use a fair amount of product, a little spray onto a pad and wipe over is insufficient for the science to work. Hence the instructions on the bottle (which do need to be read and adhered to, even if you're famous YouTuber)


----------



## Muska

Hi Mark, do you have any further insight you can share yet?


----------



## RaceGlazer

Been off sick most of the week, sorry - am in tomorrow as no-one else is but can’t promise even staying awake!


----------



## Alan W

RaceGlazer said:


> Been off sick most of the week, sorry - am in tomorrow as no-one else is but can't promise even staying awake!


Hope you're feeling better soon Mark.

Alan W


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

Should it not be down to Zymol themselves to offer a response ?


----------



## bildo

RaceGlazer said:


> I will post them when I receive them, there is quite a lot going on, so i will try to signpost them
> 
> One thing is clear, other than the prep already mentioned, is that you do need to use a fair amount of product, a little spray onto a pad and wipe over is insufficient for the science to work. Hence the instructions on the bottle (which do need to be read and adhered to, even if you're famous YouTuber)


In all fairness, I wouldn't think to apply much more than this:









I think it's really time that Zymol bothered to make a proper application video since this product doesn't seem anywhere near as simple to apply as almost all the alternatives on the market.

It would probably be worth their time to communicate with their customers in here, too, since I'm willing to bet this will be shooting to the top of the Google rankings for the keywords in no time.


----------



## RaceGlazer

I’m still off sick but thank you for your best wishes 

Zymol are producing more than 1 video but it will be quality rather than rush job.

I’m responding as their UK Distributor but also because all UK purchasers are my customers and I want to see this set right. Zymol can’t keep tabs on Forums and social media worldwide, in fact don’t do much on social. I imagine distributors in other countries are doing the same.


----------



## bildo

RaceGlazer said:


> I'm still off sick but thank you for your best wishes
> 
> Zymol are producing more than 1 video but it will be quality rather than rush job.
> 
> I'm responding as their UK Distributor but also because all UK purchasers are my customers and I want to see this set right. Zymol can't keep tabs on Forums and social media worldwide, in fact don't do much on social. I imagine distributors in other countries are doing the same.


Get better soon :thumb:

I'm glad to hear that they're producing a proper video for it. I'm genuinely interested in the product and I'm curious as to whether they can prove the masses wrong.

If they're too big to 'keep tabs on forums and social media' then, in my honest opinion, they should have a designated member of staff for the job.

We're in an internet era after all, and despite not checking the keywords before, here's is how it's looking:


----------



## Titanium Htail

Apex Detailing on his car..






John Tht.


----------



## gatecrasher3

Titanium Htail said:


> Apex Detailing on his car..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Tht.


Reading the recent threads and following watching that test video it very much seems like an overhyped and overpriced product.


----------



## Turbo Tony

I notice the instructions have changed. Those posted online refer to applying the product 'heavily' onto the surface and also specifically include the use of HD Cleanse:










The instructions on my bottle don't use the word 'heavily' and simply say that it should be applied to a clean surface:










It's a shame that, rather than the short (IMO slightly tacky) advert Zymol did post on YouTube before the product launch, they didn't release something a little more detailed, including the application process.


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

RaceGlazer said:


> I'm responding as their UK Distributor but also because all UK purchasers are my customers and I want to see this set right.


I would think your loyalty has already been recognized Mark :thumb:


----------



## mbaker

Turbo Tony said:


> It's a shame that, rather than the short (IMO slightly tacky) advert Zymol did post on YouTube before the product launch, they didn't release something a little more detailed, including the application process.


From the previous YouTube review posted, it looks to me like the guy followed the instructions exactly, fully prepped panel, machine polished, iron remover etc... Applied more product than I would have, either that or it looks really thick and almost polymer like, and buffed after the required time following instructions. Then let it set for 48 hrs. 
But to see the hydrophobicity totally die after one wash, there is no defending that!!
HD Cleanse, as far as I know, doesn't have any kind of primer effect, its a paint cleanser with lots of oils in, so how would that make any difference to what so far has looked to be a terrible product?


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

mbaker said:


> From the previous YouTube review posted, it looks to me like the guy followed the instructions exactly, fully prepped panel, machine polished, iron remover etc...


Brian is very experienced and the most meticulous of detailers who is totally impartial that speaks as he finds.


----------



## pt1

DIESEL DAVE said:


> Brian is very experienced and the most meticulous of detailers who is totally impartial that speaks as he finds.


Agreed 

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## RaceGlazer

What Brian didn’t do was show any use of (any) paint cleanser or even IPA in his process, and imparted only a very light wipe over of product by spraying a little onto a pad, then wiping it over. That’s clearly not what even the bottle says. 

Product is an almost clear QD consistency btw. 

HD Cleanse leaves the paint naked and is not a primer for anything. 

The change of instructions on the website is the start of getting the right information out but having had only 1 day in work this week I’ve not been able to keep close to developments. I’m also on holiday for a week from Tuesday. 

At least it’s good to see our website at the top of the rankings and I believe in Zymol’s development process that this will prove to be a very good product.


----------



## Titanium Htail

I am a big Zymöl fan bought many products over the decades, they have a big range, the products they sell are part of the brands reputation we await the conclusive support from Zymöl.

Thanks Mark.


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

RaceGlazer said:


> What Brian didn't do was show any use of (any) paint cleanser or even IPA in his process, and imparted only a very light wipe over of product by spraying a little onto a pad, then wiping it over. That's clearly not what even the bottle says.


If you checkout Brians video from 4.48 he does confirm how before testing products he always preps the surface (wash, decon, clay, ferrous metal remover, polish) before applying them twice with a 24hr minimum cure time.
This has been his standard procedure before his durability tests of many many sealants and has always been successfully in the past of showing their strengths and weaknesses.


----------



## AndyQash

You beat me to it, Dave...I have watched the video again and was just about to post the very same, from 4.48 you can clearly see Brian doing all of the things that Mark says he didn't do.

He gives the test panel 4 big sprays, directly onto the panel and then spreads it with the pad, this clearly lays down a really thick layer.


----------



## atbalfour

Reading Mark's comments on the YouTube video, he / Zymol feel like Brian was 'unprofessional' to post his results online without first giving Zymol a chance to reply and offer advice ... that's not how YouTube works. 

That's why Brian's channel has many avid supporters, he is not just a professional but it's obvious that he has no other affiliation or motivation but to help his followers, he put the damn thing on his personal car he's spent over 100 hours working on - surely that in itself is evidence that he had great expectations and put a giant leap of faith in the product.

To suggest that a pro detailer who talks about IPA and Panel Wipe in every video I've seen (and has already confirmed that he DID panel wipe), and is a serial LSP reviewer didn't prep his panel is just ridiculous and laughable.

If I was one of those with the product I'd be filming every step of the process and if these results are replicated I'd be availing of my consumer protection based on the ludicrous claims that the manufacturer makes. If Zymol begin to claim that HD Cleanse is essential I'd also say it's been misleadingly sold.. surely their testing would have flagged this !!!


----------



## Loach

Brian's prepwork and application was spot on for his test panel. He went above and beyond by performing two heavy coats for the test, and allowing an extended cure time before the first wash. Especially with an experienced and meticulous tester like Brian, the first reaction for the results should not be "he did something wrong".

As the others have mentioned, we can see Brian showing the abrasive polishing and panel wipe on video prior to applying the Atomic Graphene Shield to the test panel. The same process by which all of the other products that are able to perform are tested with. And we can also see exactly how he applied it to the paint. So rather than accusing a tester that mistakes were made, it would probably be more beneficial to conclude that this particular test panel and paint type most likely didn't respond as effectively to the Atomic Graphene Shield, compared to its behaviour on the different types of paint that you (Zymol) were testing it with before its release.

I would like to see manufacturers across the board curbing expectations by releasing an overview video of their new products that highlight the following:


What the product is, why it exists and the gap that it fills in the current lineup

An application demonstration as directed by the instructions on the product label

A rinse test after the proper cure time that showcases the expected fresh hydrophobic performance of the protectant

A first wash & rinse test with soap that shows how it's expected to hold up after the first wash

A general explanation of the protectant's compatibility with other products in the current lineup

The rinse tests would help to identify whether or not the users have properly applied the protectant, and if the bond to the paint was acceptable. You (Zymol) are putting your stamp of approval to show that this is how this product typically behaves when it's been properly applied, and this is how it should hold up after the first wash at its best performance. Without this knowledge, the users are in the dark.

If HD Cleanse is recommended, you could show a half and half section, this is how it responds on top of HD Cleanse compared to how it responds without it. If HD Cleanse is absolutely required this needs to be listed on the bottle.

If it's not all that hydrophobic by itself, you can explain why that is, why it might not matter, why some of the protective functions of the product to keep paint healthy in this case might not produce that kind of extreme hydrophobic reactions that you would get out of the estate glazes.

This in my opinion would be an acceptable introduction into new paint protectants moving forward, at least for me. No gimmicky flame tests and bottle slide tests that scratch that crap out of paint that other companies might do, or even chemical dump testing that most users are not going to be exposed to on a regular basis. But a manufacturer showing and verifying the basics of their product so that users know what to expect and why.

Otherwise, a $39 spray protectant is going to get left in the dust by much cheaper comparable spray protectants at half the price that appear to be providing users with stronger, more visible, and more attractive performance features.


----------



## LeeH

...such as wowo’s crystal sealant. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## GC#65

I bought a bottle, against my usual “don’t believe the hype” cautious approach to new stuff.
I haven’t used it yet and now am dubious about doing so.
See what happens when I do.


----------



## Ghostrider

I sold my bottle!


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

Ghostrider said:


> I sold my bottle!


I think Zymol should buy back or offer a revised version because there is no way this one lives up to its promises and frankly their response up to now has been pathetic.


----------



## broncoupe

Maybe we should start a thread "what did you do with yours"
Gave my bottle to the EX


----------



## Ghostrider

DIESEL DAVE said:


> I think Zymol should buy back or offer a revised version because there is no way this one lives up to its promises and frankly their response up to now has been pathetic.


I wrote an email direct to Zymol but no answer! Very annoying! No customer service for that ridiculous money!


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

My last ZYMOL product


----------



## LeeH

It was going to be my first if the reviews were favourable after the usual initial hype. 

Think I’ll sit this one out until it’s developed a little further. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

LeeH said:


> It was going to be my first if the reviews were favourable after the usual initial hype.
> 
> Think I'll sit this one out until it's developed a little further.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Wanna buy a slightly used bottle ?


----------



## LeeH

Nope! I’m fully into wowos crystal sealant this year. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

LeeH said:


> Nope! I'm fully into wowos crystal sealant this year.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yeah its far superior :thumb:


----------



## Andyblue

DIESEL DAVE said:


> Wanna buy a slightly used bottle ?


That poor is it ?

I was thinking about trying some out as not tried any Zymol products...


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

Andyblue said:


> That poor is it ?
> 
> I was thinking about trying some out as not tried any Zymol products...


Has all the durability of a poor quick detailer, fantastically over priced.


----------



## k4ith

big fan of Zymol and had looked at getting this but the two YT reviews have put that on hold. many other good products from zymol but they don't bring out many new products hopefully sort this out, for now not buying into the Graphene products fad.


----------



## Andyblue

DIESEL DAVE said:


> Has all the durability of a poor quick detailer, fantastically over priced.


Cheers mate...


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

Andyblue said:


> Cheers mate...


I can however recommend Infinity Wax QDX graphene @ £16.99 :thumb:


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

I`ve found a use for it as a drying aid after an ONR wash, expensive yes but at least it won`t be wasted 
Looked quite good :thumb:


----------



## Mini One Cabrio

All gone very quiet on this subject.....


----------



## streaky

They’ll blame COVID I’m sure .


----------



## RaceGlazer

I have been on holiday for a week (back in on Wednesday) and was ill and off for the week prior. No, it wasn't Covid but just severe flu - the 'man' strain but a reminder of how bad that is, so redoubled my determination to be safe and avoid Covid-19.

I have today asked my senior level contact at Zymol HQ what the progress is on the product, videos, application etc about half an hour ago (before I read this thread).


----------



## Alan W

Glad to hear you’ve recovered from the Flu Mark and are chasing Zymol for some resolve.

Alan W


----------



## Mini One Cabrio

Mark, Thank you for keeping the pressure up on Zymol. And stay safe. 

Paul


----------



## RaceGlazer

As we all know, Zymol has been around a long time and is a very traditional company, pretty 'old school', but also very forward thinking in its products. The way it has marketed things has remained pretty much the same for 2 decades, and the products have enjoyed a very good reputation over that period.

So I have had my job cut out to persuade Mr Bennett, the CEO and owner of Zymol, to change the way the brand communicates to the market, but I have been communicating with him and the Vice-President of Sales too, based on the comments of you on this thread and what we know is being posted elsewhere. I thank you for doing so as it has given a clear statement of feeling in the detailing community.

Therefore I'm pleased to say that yesterday I received confirmation that apart from changing the usage instructions on the website (https://www.zymol.com/zymlatomicgrapheneshield.aspx) there will be a detailed application video produced by Zymol HQ.

I have no timescale for this but you all will the amongst the first to know and I am sure it will re-establish trust in the brand and in particular, this product.


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

Nice to see a reaction from Zymol


----------



## atbalfour

So Zymol stand by this being a game changer of a product (brave) with no acknowledgement that their initial instructions fell far short.

Interesting to see if anyone who has already purchased fancies throwing some more money at Zymol and HD Cleanse to extract any reasonable performance from this product. I won't hold my breath....


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

atbalfour said:


> So Zymol stand by this being a game changer of a product (brave) with no acknowledgement that their initial instructions fell far short.
> 
> Interesting to see if anyone who has already purchased fancies throwing some more money at Zymol and HD Cleanse to extract any reasonable performance from this product.


No I don`t but would accept an offer of some HD Cleanse for free to see if it really does make a difference


----------



## Rappy

Interesting thread guys :thumb:

Mark, look forward to seeing the video & the correct application. Brian from Apex is one of the fairest reviewers I have seen & believe his reviews.

Not saying that he got it wrong, but would like him to retest after guidance from Zymol.


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

Rappy said:


> Interesting thread guys :thumb:
> 
> Mark, look forward to seeing the video & the correct application. Brian from Apex is one of the fairest reviewers I have seen & believe his reviews.
> 
> Not saying that he got it wrong,.


I doubt it very much Brian is far too experienced to get things that wrong but a bit surprised he didn`t take testing a bit further after those results


----------



## RaceGlazer

I am personally disappointed in Brian, and also that he has not responded to my e-mail also.

He is not prepared, it seems, to listen to Zymol about correct application. I think these 2 matters and lack of professional inquisitiveness to see why results were so bad don't reflect well on him. 

Zymol have already been working on this over the weekend. I will update DW as and when I have news.


----------



## Rappy

RaceGlazer said:


> I am personally disappointed in Brian, and also that he has not responded to my e-mail also.
> 
> He is not prepared, it seems, to listen to Zymol about correct application. I think these 2 matters and lack of professional inquisitiveness to see why results were so bad don't reflect well on him.
> 
> Zymol have already been working on this over the weekend. I will update DW as and when I have news.


Thanks Mark :thumb:

Agree. If you are going to review a product & the company believes it to not be a fair test. Then at least give yourself/ Zymol a chance.

Maybe worth calling Brian? He seems like a very fair guy to me & maybe not got your mail?

Just a thought.


----------



## JU5T1N

So the issue with the application is he used the wrong products a different brand polish , panel wipe and applicator. Sounds like a load of rubbish and just like the manufacture is trying to exploit the situation to sell more products.


----------



## atbalfour

JU5T1N said:


> So the issue with the application is he used the wrong products a different brand polish , panel wipe and applicator. Sounds like a load of rubbish and just like the manufacture is trying to exploit the situation to sell more products.


Which I believe wasn't 'required' as part of the instructions at the time. Who knows, maybe this is a magic panel prep that works better than the one a pro-detailer and coating installer uses... maybe it's actually a primer 

I'm trying not to be sceptical, but I would suggest that unless Zymol start dishing out free HD Cleanse people have written this product off. If it's so hit or miss with respect prep then regardless of whether it works, it's not for a beginner.

Why would anyone feel like this product deserves any more money thrown at it... if Zymol are confident they can avert this publicity sh*tshow through clarifying instructions they should back that up by posting some HD Cleanse FOC to Brian's shop.. the address can be found online.


----------



## Brian1612

Zymol really haven't handled this well at all have they... 

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## 4Wheels&Engine

I, too, saw the review at Apex which must have been the worst product performance one of Brian's videos.

Looking at the Zymol site, for for HD-Cleanse, it sounds more of an old school pre-wax cleaner than a panel prep. Clicking on the bottle lists the ingredients, or some of, and it contains several oils and SiO2 Fused Silica, which apparently acts as an abrasive and sealant.

I'm sure Mark will know more about HD-Cleanse. The Zymol site currently states for Graphene Shield "Clean the surface with Zymol HD-Cleanse".

If a wash, polish and panel prep isn't sufficient, then maybe the product relies on the primer effect of HD-Cleanse to bond. If that is the case, then the instructions should read that HD-Cleanse must be used.

Every company will recommend their own products to be used before their protection product, but many people will just use whatever branded product they have that performs the same function.

I guess there is a question of terminology, if a product cleans, but leaves something behind, is it really a cleaner?

One notable trend with the marketing of graphene products, is some companies quote the properties of a true one atom layer of graphene, rather than their product as a whole, and then discuss their product, which are two very different things. Whilst technically correct, it's misleading to customers.

One thing is for sure, the bolder a product's claim, the bigger the online backlash if customers don't see those claims met, so if the i's aren't crossed and the t's dotted (sic) you're in for a bumpy ride!

It'll be interesting to see how this develops.


----------



## JU5T1N

Most products bond best to bare paint, using a glaze or primer underneath normally slightly reduces durability, if hd cleanse contains its own sealant then even if Graphene Shield fails after one wash hd cleanse could still remain on the panel affecting water behaviour making it appear Graphene Shield is still there when its not.


----------



## RaceGlazer

HD-Cleanse is a panel prep that leaves nothing behind. Has always been the same. 
HD does a known job on the panel which is why Zymol recommend it (and of course will always recommend their own product as has sagely been noted) and I know that in the real world, folks will use what they have to hand or what does the job, but in this case, if they don't use HD then they have to ensure the panel is totally clean, as they would with anything else. 

The issues I have with Brians prep is that there is no evidence that he used a panel wipe product at all, and that he applied far too little product on the panel. How come in Zymols own tests during years of development that the product passed them all, sufficient to be released under one of the best known premium product brand names ? Are people really saying that they are knowingly peddling an ineffective product and that Brian is the sole arbiter of whether something is a good product or not ? He didn't follow the product instructions, or ask for clarification if he was unsure when testing quite an important product, pretty much the first Graphene product to break cover, so should have clarified with the company if he was unsure, and certainly after his tests, but hey, the Internet is a free for all where you can say what you like...

Brian has not responded to my e-mail nor contact from another Zymol associate, and ignored mine and his comments on the YouTube thread. As I'm looking after the European end, I have made recommendations about how to handle the American continent raised issues, which Zymol are dealing with. Its not my brand but I'm doing all I can in the face of relentless criticism and cynicism.


----------



## AndyQash

Hi Mark...with reference to, Brian...which panel are you referring to, the Vette or the test panel?


----------



## JU5T1N

Probably the the test panel, yea the video doesn't show him using the panel wipe but someone pointed this out to him and in another video he said he did use panel wipe and held up what looked like a bottle of bilt hamber cleanser fluid.
His only applying to a small section of a panel and uses what looks like maybe too much product to me and does 2 coats aswell have much more product should he have used?.
Also his review matches what others who brought the product are saying about it.


----------



## 4Wheels&Engine

Hi Mark, sorry to add to your troubles, I hope you are feeling better now. I am a customer of yours and have always appreciated your help and assistance. It is good that you are working so hard to help your customers.

My comments on HD-Cleanse were based on the Zymol site, specifically, it states that it uses SiO2 to "correct and seal" paint, as the attached grab from their site shows. I have no vested interest, or desire to hop on a bandwagon and always try to add balanced, constructive posts.

I do watch Brian's channel, and he has reviewed a number of Graphene products. I believe Brian sprayed a panel prep on the test panel after polishing it in the video, though the product used wasn't clearly visible.

From experience, I would say that contacting any business can be a bit hit-and-miss in the current climate, genuine emails can easily go unnoticed in a large volume of enquiries. Running a full time business, several social media platforms and inviting everyone to contact you is bound to generate a lot of enquiries.

I would imagine that contacting a business on an important matter would be more successful by phone for Zymol.

What has been your experience with the product, Mark, have you tested it using an alternative panel prep?


----------



## RaceGlazer

I have an update from Mr. Bennett. The video is in the editing stage but was filmed over the weekend.

I’ll keep you posted. Zymol will publish it and I will make it available to share through YouTube.


----------



## GeeWhizRS

Regardless of how this turns out from this point, I would suggest that unless Brian received a faulty bottle of goop, Zymol have a major problem brewing. If the issue has resulted from not using HD Cleanse (rather than another panel wipe product) then this application is sooo finicky that unless you follow the instructions to the Tee, the product literally falls off the paint when someone slams a door. That is unreasonable. This effectively turns a £40 product into a £70 product as you need to buy a specific prep product.
I hope this has a happy ending but the view from here looks like there's a storm-a-coming.


----------



## atbalfour

RaceGlazer said:


> HD-Cleanse is a panel prep that leaves nothing behind. Has always been the same.
> HD does a known job on the panel which is why Zymol recommend it (and of course will always recommend their own product as has sagely been noted) and I know that in the real world, folks will use what they have to hand or what does the job, but in this case, if they don't use HD then they have to ensure the panel is totally clean, as they would with anything else.
> 
> The issues I have with Brians prep is that there is no evidence that he used a panel wipe product at all, and that he applied far too little product on the panel. How come in Zymols own tests during years of development that the product passed them all, sufficient to be released under one of the best known premium product brand names ? Are people really saying that they are knowingly peddling an ineffective product and that Brian is the sole arbiter of whether something is a good product or not ? He didn't follow the product instructions, or ask for clarification if he was unsure when testing quite an important product, pretty much the first Graphene product to break cover, so should have clarified with the company if he was unsure, and certainly after his tests, but hey, the Internet is a free for all where you can say what you like...
> 
> Brian has not responded to my e-mail nor contact from another Zymol associate, and ignored mine and his comments on the YouTube thread. As I'm looking after the European end, I have made recommendations about how to handle the American continent raised issues, which Zymol are dealing with. Its not my brand but I'm doing all I can in the face of relentless criticism and cynicism.


I'd worry less about Brian and more about your paying customers in this thread, who have been left with *what appears to be* an expensive dud of a product which you continue to defend. Are you suggesting that none of your customers with these bad results have used a panel prep, or are you suggesting that the panel prep MUST be HD Cleanse. I'm unclear..


----------



## Blanco92

Watching with interest. Zymol have always been this gold standard brand for as long as I can remember. 

Even the method for applying coatings can vary. For example some flash off more or less immediately whilst others can sit on the paint for minutes before being buffed. So if Zymol can prove this product works (even if the application requires special attention) then all is forgiven.

That said, if the above is true and they brought a product to market without key application info, that shows a disconnect between them and the end user that they need to resolve.


----------



## St Evelyn

I think it's a real shame that there's been so much bashing, intended or otherwise, of @RaceGlazer on this thread.

I appreciate that he's the importer and so the face of Zymol in the UK, but he's not the chemist and has been open in sharing the outputs from his ongoing discussions with Zymol USA whilst attempting to get answers, updated application video etc...

Personally, I think that it would be better if we were to let this play out for a few days / weeks to see what Zymol USA come back with prior to pushing Mark any further.

Just my view, no offence intended. :thumb:


----------



## Rappy

St Evelyn said:


> I think it's a real shame that there's been so much bashing, intended or otherwise, of @RaceGlazer on this thread.
> 
> I appreciate that he's the importer and so the face of Zymol in the UK, but he's not the chemist and has been open in sharing the outputs from his ongoing discussions with Zymol USA whilst attempting to get answers, updated application video etc...
> 
> Personally, I think that it would be better if we were to let this play out for a few days / weeks to see what Zymol USA come back with prior to pushing Mark any further.
> 
> Just my view, no offence intended. :thumb:


Agreed :thumb::thumb::thumb:


----------



## RaceGlazer

Thank you very much Sainted Evelyn. Really appreciated.


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

St Evelyn said:


> I think it's a real shame that there's been so much bashing, intended or otherwise, of @RaceGlazer on this thread.
> Personally, I think that it would be better if we were to let this play out for a few days / weeks to see what Zymol USA come back with


I disagree I don`t think RaceGlazer got any stick he is only selling the stuff so there`s no reason to get any flack and Zymol have already had quite a while to come back with a satisfactory excuse.


----------



## broncoupe

Sorry I don't share your sentiments
The fact is a couple of members brought initial thoughts to Raceglazers attention very early on and he was less than generous in his replies
I rarely comment as strongly as this but feel we are owed an apology 
I even went to the trouble of contacting him directly by telephone before ever posting to the forum
I have now seen the Bentley I originally coated with Zymol Graphene after a few months approx 3mnths
The results were not good to the point the car has been stripped and recoated with a more traditional product.
This has been carried out at my expense regular clients do not buy product
They by us the applicators its called trust.
Broncoupe


----------



## St Evelyn

DIESEL DAVE said:


> I disagree...





broncoupe said:


> Sorry I don't share your sentiments...


And that's cool - we live in a democracy and we're all entitled to have differing opinions. :thumb:

From my perspective Mark has escalated the issue repeatedly and kept on the case with trying to get a satisfactory response for those raising issues and queries, regardless of whether they've been personally impacted or just sharing a view.

I compare the situation to when someone is going through a hard time at work. It's very easy for the boss to pile the pressure on by bringing up further challenges but that will just exacerbate the situation and further impact their motivation, confidence and performance. Instead, their boss can show a bit of empathy and leadership by helping them to resolve the issue - meaning that a better result is achieved, in a much shorter timescale, and in a way that builds their confidence and skillset. Taking this latter approach will inevitably lead to a better longterm outcome for everyone.

That's not to say that we are Mark's boss or that he is underperforming, quite the opposite. In my view, the principles of support, empathy and leadership should transcend all walks of life, not just our work lives or, indeed, this forum - hence my earlier post. :thumb:


----------



## Rappy

St Evelyn said:


> And that's cool - we live in a democracy and we're all entitled to have differing opinions. :thumb:


Again, agree 100% :thumb: :thumb::thumb:

Surely, respect for what people say comes into it too?


----------



## AndyQash

Rappy said:


> Surely, respect for what people say comes into it too?


That is very true, Rappy...unless you are Brian from Apex, who's had a perfectly honest review questioned multiple times in this thread.

How many times has his panel preparation been brought into question, when there is clear video evidence that he went above and beyond in the panel preparation process and went much further than the instructions stated on the back of his bottle to get a perfectly clean surface for the product to bond to.


----------



## Rappy

Hi Mark/RaceGlazer,

If you would like someone UK based from DW to try Zymol, I'm your man :thumb::thumb:

Please let me know & I can PM my details.


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

To be honest I don`t think it really was Marks place to defend the product and Zymol in this case however admirable it may be, as I said earlier he`s only flogging the stuff.
The fault lies with Zymol totally


----------



## Turbo Tony

I agree with the sentiment that this isn’t Mark’s issue to correct. Yes, I rather feel I’ve bought a dud product but that isn’t due to Mark, it’s due to Zymol.

Also, while we are commenting about companies not getting back to people, Zymol, who had responded to me very quickly earlier, did not respond to my message to them when I asked for their views on Brian’s video.

This feels a little like Apple’s ‘antennagate’ issue with the iPhone 4, which would drop calls because users’ hands would bridge the two external antennae with their fingers. Steve Jobs famously quipped that ‘you’re holding it wrong’, only for Apple to send free silicone bumpers to each user and then revise the antenna design in the next iPhone. What I mean is, I think it’s going to take more than an instructional video to fix this. There’s only so much that can be put down to user error for a product designed for an end-user.


----------



## Mini One Cabrio

All gone very quiet on this


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

Mini One Cabrio said:


> All gone very quiet on this


As usual there seems to be no hurry :tumbleweed:

Zymol are doing themselves a disservice by apparently burying their heads in the sand over this instead of addressing the situation promptly and getting it sorted it out to the satisfaction of the customers who either have purchased it or considering it.


----------



## Muska

I'm still waiting patiently for some official communication from Zymol. I appreciate all Mark has done to act as an intermediary but as mentioned above, Zymol really need to take some ownership of this. It's damaging their reputation for me and I do aspire to own at least one of their high end waxes, which I'm reluctant to pursue while this is ongoing.

While it's unlikely I'll revisit the product if it requires Zymol HD Cleanse, it feels like this is a product I would never have bought if it had a dependency such as this, I am interested to see if proper results in line with the claims can be achieved because if I'm honest, I remain unconvinced.

Surely there would be something out there now from another detailer or amateur showing the capabilities?


----------



## AndyQash

How is yours holding up, Muska...do you have any pictures or video of how the coating is fairing?


----------



## Muska

I made this post back on 13/10. I've not been back to using the product since, it's gathering dust on my garage shelf awaiting further information from Zymol...


----------



## AndyQash

Muska said:


> I made this post back on 13/10. I've not been back to using the product since, it's gathering dust on my garage shelf awaiting further information from Zymol...


Cheers...I remember now after reading the link :thumb:


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

Zymol have missed their chance of salvaging any credibility for this product, the best they can do now is admit the issues and consolidate their position.


----------



## evotuning

RaceGlazer said:


> HD-Cleanse is a panel prep that leaves nothing behind. Has always been the same.
> HD does a known job on the panel which is why Zymol recommend it (and of course will always recommend their own product as has sagely been noted) and I know that in the real world, folks will use what they have to hand or what does the job, but in this case, if they don't use HD then they have to ensure the panel is totally clean, as they would with anything else.
> 
> The issues I have with Brians prep is that there is no evidence that he used a panel wipe product at all, and that he applied far too little product on the panel. How come in Zymols own tests during years of development that the product passed them all, sufficient to be released under one of the best known premium product brand names ? Are people really saying that they are knowingly peddling an ineffective product and that Brian is the sole arbiter of whether something is a good product or not ? He didn't follow the product instructions, or ask for clarification if he was unsure when testing quite an important product, pretty much the first Graphene product to break cover, so should have clarified with the company if he was unsure, and certainly after his tests, but hey, the Internet is a free for all where you can say what you like...
> 
> Brian has not responded to my e-mail nor contact from another Zymol associate, and ignored mine and his comments on the YouTube thread. As I'm looking after the European end, I have made recommendations about how to handle the American continent raised issues, which Zymol are dealing with. Its not my brand but I'm doing all I can in the face of relentless criticism and cynicism.


The same HD Cleanse that is known to be one of the most filler heavy cleaner on the market? Did anything change in the formula over the last few years? HDC I rembember was virtually on par with SRP in terms of filling.


----------



## Alan W

evotuning said:


> The same HD Cleanse that is known to be one of the most filler heavy cleaner on the market? *Did anything change in the formula over the last few years?* HDC I rembember was virtually on par with SRP in terms of filling.


The description on the Zymol.com website has changed and the product is now called SiO2 Advanced HD-Cleanse.

However, the old name is still shown on the bottle in the link above despite the change.

Alan W


----------



## LeeH

2020 will be remembered for Zymol Graphene gate and maybe Covid too.


----------



## Kenan

LeeH said:


> 2020 will be remembered for Zymol Graphene gate and maybe Covid too.


Don't forget the "AutoFoam LSP killer"

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## budgetplan1

At the end of the day, Brian at Apex did *not* follow mfg directions, which gives the mfg an 'out', justified or not.

Would it have gone different if he woulda followed the instructions to the letter...dunno but here we are.


----------



## RaceGlazer

As I posted previously, Zymol have shot a video and I have been informed today that its 3-4 days away from being available.

I may see a preview, I may not - as others have pointed out, I'm the Distributor, not the manufacturer so have no control over content. Please don't shoot the messenger.


----------



## Woodsmoke

budgetplan1 said:


> At the end of the day, Brian at Apex did *not* follow mfg directions, which gives the mfg an 'out', justified or not.
> 
> Would it have gone different if he woulda followed the instructions to the letter...dunno but here we are.


Only he didn't do was use there cleanser polish. but he used a proper finishing polish so it should really have bonded better..


----------



## budgetplan1

Woodsmoke said:


> Only he didn't do was use there cleanser polish. but he used a proper finishing polish so it should really have bonded better..


Perhaps so but the fact remains he didn't follow mfg reccomendations. Every coating I've tried I also followed the prep directions just to avoid this kinda thing.

If using Gyeon, I used Prep; if CarPro, Eraser was used, Nanolex, I used their prep, Feynlab I used Prime and their panel wipe, same w Gtechniq...so on and so forth.

I have no particular love (or hate) for this product; I personally think at this point graphene is mostly marketing and advertising that your product is "Harder than Diamonds" because it contains "Pure Atomic Graphene" is particularly laughable.

That said, if you're gonna evaluate a product on your YouTube channel, especially when it doesnt work out so well, you best follow mfg instructions exactly as written. At the very least he shoulda gone back and tried again using mfg reccomended procedures. That woulda left no doubt about results and no 'loopholes' for the mfg to question his results.


----------



## AndyQash

Just out of curiosity, what part of the mfg did Brian not follow?


----------



## Brian1612

budgetplan1 said:


> Perhaps so but the fact remains he didn't follow mfg reccomendations. Every coating I've tried I also followed the prep directions just to avoid this kinda thing.
> 
> If using Gyeon, I used Prep; if CarPro, Eraser was used, Nanolex, I used their prep, Feynlab I used Prime and their panel wipe, same w Gtechniq...so on and so forth.
> 
> I have no particular love (or hate) for this product; I personally think at this point graphene is mostly marketing and advertising that your product is "Harder than Diamonds" because it contains "Pure Atomic Graphene" is particularly laughable.
> 
> That said, if you're gonna evaluate a product on your YouTube channel, especially when it doesnt work out so well, you best follow mfg instructions exactly as written. At the very least he shoulda gone back and tried again using mfg reccomended procedures. That woulda left no doubt about results and no 'loopholes' for the mfg to question his results.


He did follow the manufacturers instructions at the time of filming. Zymol have since changed them based on the poor results people are experiencing which is a kop out.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## budgetplan1

AndyQash said:


> Just out of curiosity, what part of the mfg did Brian not follow?





Brian1612 said:


> He did follow the manufacturers instructions at the time of filming. Zymol have since changed them based on the poor results people are experiencing which is a kop out.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


It is my understanding that he did not use Zymol HD-Cleanse before applying but rather another panel prep product.


----------



## AndyQash

There is no mention of HD Cleanse on the back of Brian's bottle.


----------



## Brian1612

budgetplan1 said:


> It is my understanding that he did not use Zymol HD-Cleanse before applying but rather another panel prep product.


Those instructions were only distributed after the poor performance issues began to appear. Prior to that the instructions did not mention hd cleanse & were as per the bottle so Brian followed the instructions. Extremely poor how Zymol have handled this.









Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## AndyQash

These are the directions on Brian's bottle.

Shake well, spray Zymol Paint Shield onto a clean surface. 
Spread immediately with a Zymol Micro Applicator.
Let stand for 90-120 seconds.
Spray again then buff gently with a Zymol Microwipe.
Use additional Zymol Applicators and Microwipes as needed.
Do not apply in direct sunlight or if your paint finish is hot to the touch.
Use only on smooth non-porous exterior surfaces.

You have beaten me to it Brian, took me ages to type that up :lol:


----------



## budgetplan1

AndyQash said:


> There is no mention of HD Cleanse on the back of Brian's bottle.


Well then...I stand corrected, don't i feel dumb (not like i ain't used to that )

Zymol hasn't a leg to stand on in that case.

My apologies. How quickly did Zymol relabel? That was probably an interesting meeting at Zymol HQ


----------



## noorth

budgetplan1 said:


> Well then...I stand corrected, don't i feel dumb (not like i ain't used to that )
> 
> Zymol hasn't a leg to stand on in that case.
> 
> My apologies. How quickly did Zymol relabel? That was probably an interesting meeting at Zymol HQ


Maybe they fired all the real geniuses, you know cutbacks..lol


----------



## Brian1612

budgetplan1 said:


> Well then...I stand corrected, don't i feel dumb (not like i ain't used to that )
> 
> Zymol hasn't a leg to stand on in that case.
> 
> My apologies. How quickly did Zymol relabel? That was probably an interesting meeting at Zymol HQ


It's a large thread mate so I wouldn't worry, I had to check myself before posting! 

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## Alan W

I posted that photo of the application instructions from the website 2 months ago in Post 14 on page 2 of this Thread and Zymol HD-Cleanse was mentioned on the website at that time.

It would appear to only be missing from the back of the bottle and has perhaps been revised on any subsequent production bottles.

Here's hoping using HD-Cleanse does make a difference and the product is a good 'un in keeping with Zymol's previous reputation for quality high-end products.

Alan W


----------



## BRUN

has anyone tried this, using HD Cleanse first ? maybe a 50/50 on a panel ?

to see if it does make any difference, not that i think it will


----------



## AndyQash

BRUN said:


> has anyone tried this, using HD Cleanse first ? maybe a 50/50 on a panel ?
> 
> to see if it does make any difference, not that i think it will


You're looking at £70 if you buy both :doublesho


----------



## LeeH

AndyQash said:


> You're looking at £70 if you buy both :doublesho


And you can currently buy wow wows CS for 12.99 which doesn't need any special prep.

Tough choice!


----------



## AndyQash

LeeH said:


> And you can currently buy wow wows CS for 12.99 which doesn't need any special prep.
> 
> Tough choice!


That's a great shout, Lee...:thumb:


----------



## atbalfour

Why has any Zymol affiliate not themselves posted 'expected' results having used HD Cleanse (the source of all the finger pointing) to shut us all up... or sent a bottle free for an independent reviewer who's been disappointed with the product thus far... I do wonder...


----------



## RaceGlazer

You mean me ?

As others have said, and I have posted, Zymol are producing a video so just hold on a little longer...

I'm not prepared to potentially be hit by hundreds of critical posts on my technique tbh


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

RaceGlazer said:


> As others have said, and I have posted, Zymol are producing a video


Surely this is Zymol admitting there has been issues, nobody releases a fully tested product then put out an application video months later.


----------



## atbalfour

RaceGlazer said:


> You mean me ?
> 
> As others have said, and I have posted, Zymol are producing a video so just hold on a little longer...
> 
> I'm not prepared to potentially be hit by hundreds of critical posts on my technique tbh


No I think it's zymols responsibility.... they're the ones who made these audacious claims and it's their reputation on the line more than anyone else.

That said could you benefit from documenting and sharing a far more positive experience having 'used it correctly'? Probably.. as seeing those results would encourage others to take a chance and purchase HD cleanse and giving the two combined (along with any other application advice) another shot.

Not pointing fingers but at the moment Zymol appear to be suggesting HD cleanse and applying even more product is going to transform the results, but video or no video people will remain sceptical until someone else has tried it and had better results.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## RaceGlazer

I have a good friend, top pro detailer who has used it, correctly, and he remarked that the gloss was the best he had seen in over 20 years of using products. Any product. 
But the car is a garage queen and therefore there is no test info to share. 

The product was also used last month on a fabulous collection of cars, again indoor only. And no pictures allowed.

I don't have an indoor facility and shan't be doing anything outside, but am in correspondence with the Founder of Zymol directly today. I believe the video is imminent.


----------



## AndyQash

Hi Mark...did your friend use Zymol HD Cleanse in the preparation process?


----------



## RaceGlazer

No Andy, he didnt - used another product and lots of panel wipe, then put plenty of the AG product on as directed. Skimping is one of the errors dear Brian did which is responsible for much of his problem.


----------



## AndyQash

Thanks Mark... I don't think we are going to see eye to eye when it comes to Brian's prep, so no point in going down that road again.

By the sounds of it, anybody using this product has to go that little bit further in ensuring that the panel is 100% prepped and it would be interesting to see the long term results as more people use it.


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

AndyQash said:


> Thanks Mark... I don't think we are going to see eye to eye when it comes to Brian's prep, so no point in going down that road again.


Exactly... you can`t seem to help yourself putting down Brians prep Mark even though theres no mention of any special application details on the original label.


----------



## Kenan

The more this post goes on the more I want to try it for myself. Shame we can't get it in a sample size to try it out ourselves. 

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## atbalfour

Kenan said:


> The more this post goes on the more I want to try it for myself. Shame we can't get it in a sample size to try it out ourselves.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk


By the sounds of it you'd need a sizeable sample with the liberal application required!


----------



## Kenan

atbalfour said:


> By the sounds of it you'd need a sizeable sample with the liberal application required!


I was only going to do half the bonnet 

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## GeeWhizRS

Zymol release correct application details...🙃


----------



## big dave 666

atbalfour said:


> By the sounds of it you'd need a sizeable sample with the liberal application required!


See. Before any of this kicked off my concern was the price. Zymol aren't known for being at the cheaper end of the market with their products, and when ZG was being promoted, before it hit the shelves, we were being told this amazing product, with potentially years of durability, was available for £40. Which let's face it, is not alot of money for a zymol product. And now it turns out the reason it's £40 is because you'll probably be lucky to get two cars coated with it. I'm glad I didn't buy it, or buy into it, even though I'm a fan of zymol products, although after their lack of action on this, I may not be purchasing any more of their products in the future. Prefer polish angel products nowadays anyway!!!!


----------



## RaceGlazer

DIESEL DAVE said:


> Exactly... you can`t seem to help yourself putting down Brians prep Mark even though theres no mention of any special application details on the original label.


I cant stop myself because its one of the main reasons he got that result. Its as if he's some sort of demi-God, honestly. He's not. I think it was unprofessional of him to put that review out with such bad results without questioning himself, his technique, reading the label again or even contacting the product producer. Would one our our DW Reviewers not do that if results were so contrary to expectations??

The original on bottle instructions say to spray the product on and wipe with an applicator - not spray some onto an applicator and wipe it on. Then spray again. He simply didn't put enough on. Its not 'special' - its just simple clear instructions, in that respect.

There's plenty in the bottle to do a number of cars - its 680ml.

Sometimes I struggle to see why I'm just about the only person who thinks this - with my ordinary person hat on, not as the Distributor, just someone who may have tested a product, thought 'oops - thats odd' and not reconsidered what I was about to publish. That's my point. Which I may well repeat.


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

RaceGlazer said:


> I cant stop myself because its one of the main reasons he got that result. Its as if he's some sort of demi-God, honestly. He's not. I think it was unprofessional of him to put that review out with such bad results without questioning himself, his technique, reading the label again or even contacting the product producer. Would one our our DW Reviewers not do that if results were so contrary to expectations??
> 
> The original on bottle instructions say to spray the product on and wipe with an applicator - not spray some onto an applicator and wipe it on. Then spray again. He simply didn't put enough on. Its not 'special' - its just simple clear instructions, in that respect.
> 
> There's plenty in the bottle to do a number of cars - its 680ml.
> 
> Sometimes I struggle to see why I'm just about the only person who thinks this - with my ordinary person hat on, not as the Distributor, just someone who may have tested a product, thought 'oops - thats odd' and not reconsidered what I was about to publish. That's my point. Which I may well repeat.


Your wrong Mark, the original application details do not give a casual user any hint of a finicky product that needed special treatment to achieve acceptable results.


----------



## RaceGlazer

For those who have actually used the product, which is no more than 60 of you who bought through us, you cant help spray the product heavily onto the surface as the spray only gives a heavy coat. 
If you spray it, you get a heavy coat. If you ignore the spray bit of the instructions then you can put too little on. But that wouldn't be reading the instructions, any instructions,. it'd be making up your own application method. The Brian method in fact.


----------



## Rappy

RaceGlazer said:


> For those who have actually used the product, which is no more than 60 of you who bought through us, you cant help spray the product heavily onto the surface as the spray only gives a heavy coat.
> If you spray it, you get a heavy coat. If you ignore the spray bit of the instructions then you can put too little on. But that wouldn't be reading the instructions, any instructions,. it'd be making up your own application method. The Brian method in fact.


Mark, the above is helpful, thank you. And yes Brian did not follow this :thumb:

A lot of purchases are based on reviews. You have cleared up my concerns.

:thumb:


----------



## BRUN

RaceGlazer said:


> For those who have actually used the product, which is no more than 60 of you who bought through us, you cant help spray the product heavily onto the surface as the spray only gives a heavy coat.
> If you spray it, you get a heavy coat. If you ignore the spray bit of the instructions then you can put too little on. But that wouldn't be reading the instructions, any instructions,. it'd be making up your own application method. The Brian method in fact.


i dont really want to chip in here but im confused sorry

if the spray on the bottle only gives a heavy coat, and thats what is needed, how are people getting it wrong ?

i cant recall right now, but did Brian not use the spray trigger to apply ? i dont remember him unscrewing anything to pour onto an applicator instead etc

i dont own this product and have not tried it, from this thread alone i think it will be in the bargain bin at Halfords by new year for £5, this product has no future


----------



## GeeWhizRS

RaceGlazer said:


> If you spray it, you get a heavy coat.


The application density will vary depending on how much/fast you move your arm.


----------



## fatdazza

Have the testers used a Zymol Micro applicator and buffed with Zymol Microwipes?

I bet that is the reason for reported failings.


----------



## Sheep

I can't believe I didn't read this thread until now. What a ride.

If anyone wants me to test this send me a sample, I have a panel ready to go.


----------



## LeeH

Sheep said:


> I can't believe I didn't read this thread until now. What a ride.
> 
> If anyone wants me to test this send me a sample, I have a panel ready to go.


Where have you been? Forget COVID, this has dominated global news in 2020.


----------



## bildo

Sheep said:


> I can't believe I didn't read this thread until now. What a ride.
> 
> If anyone wants me to test this send me a sample, I have a panel ready to go.


But will you do it correctly as per their ever-changing instructions though?


----------



## broncoupe

Mike Phillps just did a review on 303 Graphene similarish style product he used a slightly dampened microfibre applicator 
i wonder if that combined with 2 wet coats would work any better
This is not a bad product infact its feel on application is better than beadmaker
What is questionable presently is its longevity 
Find myself agreeing with Mark on this piont Brian was unduly harsh he knows he has influnce
and that kind of sensational approach which previously i haven't noticed from him
makes me wonder whats happening in the back ground
Afterall his profile has raised considerably in 2020


----------



## RaceGlazer

GeeWhizRS said:


> The application density will vary depending on how much/fast you move your arm.


Yes, but if your objective is, as it should be, to apply a complete coat, then that coat can only be heavy. If you go too fast you wont achieve that.


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

RaceGlazer said:


> For those who have actually used the product, which is no more than 60 of you who bought through us, you cant help spray the product heavily onto the surface as the spray only gives a heavy coat.
> If you spray it, you get a heavy coat. If you ignore the spray bit of the instructions then you can put too little on. But that wouldn't be reading the instructions, any instructions,. it'd be making up your own application method. The Brian method in fact.


Have you actually seen the part of Brians video where he applies the product to his test panel, he puts on two good coats and 48hrs cure.


----------



## RaceGlazer

BRUN said:


> i dont really want to chip in here but im confused sorry
> 
> if the spray on the bottle only gives a heavy coat, and thats what is needed, how are people getting it wrong ?
> 
> i cant recall right now, but did Brian not use the spray trigger to apply ? i dont remember him unscrewing anything to pour onto an applicator instead etc
> 
> i dont own this product and have not tried it, from this thread alone i think it will be in the bargain bin at Halfords by new year for £5, this product has no future


Brian spritzed some product onto an applicator pad - see the section when he did the bonnet about 1 minute in. A small amount onto the wing, then onto a pad which he spread over a quarter of the bonnet. The bottle by his side. This is not a spray application at all. See photos here (View in order 3, 2, 1):

Product will definitely not be available anywhere for a fiver lol


----------



## RaceGlazer

DIESEL DAVE said:


> Have you actually seen the part of Brians video where he applies the product to his test panel, he puts on two good coats and 48hrs cure.
> 
> Zymol Atomic Graphene Shield Paint Sealant! - YouTube


Yes - 3 little sprays in the centre then spread out with a pad, left for some period ( I will assume as per instructions) then a small spray in centre, again wiped over the rest of the panel. 
Not as per instructions ??

Something happens with a quick spray after the machine polishing but no idea what that was.


----------



## AndyQash

Hi Mark...so your views on Brian's prep not being correct are based on the Vette?, fair enough, I'll agree with you on that.

So, what about his prep of the test panel that failed?


----------



## Rappy

RaceGlazer said:


> Brian spritzed some product onto an applicator pad - see the section when he did the bonnet about 1 minute in. A small amount onto the wing, then onto a pad which he spread over a quarter of the bonnet. The bottle by his side. This is not a spray application at all. See photos here (View in order 3, 2, 1):
> 
> Product will definitely not be available anywhere for a fiver lol


Agreed :thumb:

He seems to follow his own process for all applications of products.

You could argue all his product testing is flawed


----------



## BRUN

pretty sure ive still got some HD Cleanse if their are any samples going ?

i work at a car dealers with a bodyshop, so a test panel wouldnt be a problem at all, real world weather test too


----------



## AndyQash

RaceGlazer said:


> Yes - 3 little sprays in the centre then spread out with a pad, left for some period ( I will assume as per instructions) then a small spray in centre, again wiped over the rest of the panel.
> Not as per instructions ??
> 
> Something happens with a quick spray after the machine polishing but no idea what that was.


So, on that small section that Brian tested, let's say it's about 30cm X 45cm, where he lays down the 2 coats he does a total of 11 squirts of the product.

1st coat 4 squirts + 2 to wipe off
2nd coat 3 squirts + 2 to wipe off

Just confirm and we don't really need to do this because we know your views, are you saying he does not use enough product?

So, on that very small 30cm X 45cm section how much product should he actually be using?


----------



## RaceGlazer

AndyQash said:


> Hi Mark...so your views on Brian's prep not being correct are based on the Vette?, fair enough, I'll agree with you on that.
> 
> So, what about his prep of the test panel that failed?


Thanks Andy - see my post 2-3 (above yours).

I seem to have been sucked into contributing to this thread despite being only part-time at present, am hoping the official video comes out in the next few days as I expect..


----------



## AndyQash

Hi Mark...no problem, pal...but I'd really appreciate an answer to my above post ( #207 )

On that 30cm X 45cm section how much product should people be using, because if 11 squirts is not enough then I don't know what is.

I really do think this needs to be clarified, because putting down a Heavy coat could mean different things to different people.


----------



## Rappy

AndyQash said:


> Hi Mark...no problem, pal...but I'd really appreciate an answer to my above post ( #207 )
> 
> On that 30cm X 45cm section how much product should people be using, because if 11 squirts is not enough then I don't know what is.
> 
> I really do think this needs to be clarified, because putting down a Heavy coat could mean different things to different people.


Agreed Andy :thumb:

It does happen :lol:

Guessing it would easier to wait for the video.


----------



## Rappy

Mark,

When will it arrive in the UK?

Thanks


----------



## Alan W

Rappy said:


> Mark,
> 
> When will it arrive in the UK?
> 
> Thanks


Its been available in the UK for a few months now and no more than 60 bottles have been sold according to the below post by Mark.



RaceGlazer said:


> For those who have actually used the product, which is *no more than 60 of you* who bought through us, ...........


Alan W


----------



## Rappy

Alan W said:


> Its been available in the UK for a few months now and no more than 60 bottles have been sold according to the below post by Mark.
> 
> Alan W


Thanks Alan, missed that :thumb:

Will await to see the video before I purchase.


----------



## RaceGlazer

Our initial allocation of stock flew out the door, we have sold more but wont have the stock to fulfill till middle of next week, maybe Monday/Tuesday. There will be some for new customers. 

So while its technically been 'available' here for a few months, it was only really available to buy for less than a week. If we had stock, we'd have far more bottles in people hands so they could make up their own mind.

Lets wait for the video shall we folks ?


----------



## Mini One Cabrio

I am one of the 60. I prepped a panel, clay, dodo lime prime and wiped the panel down with BH cleaner fluid. Applied the Graphene Shield as per the instructions. Look and feel is great, just the poor water behaviour and apparent lack of longevity is the issue. Currently got it topped off with Sonax BSD to give it some nice water behaviour. I would be astounded if a company such as Zymol have not tested this product extensively before bringing it to market. I have used HD Cleanse, Titanium and several others over the years to good effect. I think we all need to give Mark a break and see how the video pans out. Be kind. It is the season of goodwill after all.


----------



## Sheep

LeeH said:


> Where have you been? Forget COVID, this has dominated global news in 2020.


Sorry, I don't watch much news. I decided to tune into it the other day and they cut off our Covid Health address to inform me that there is a crisis in the detailing community and that the beacon has been shining ever since this story broke. I got out my good shears, cleaned up my coat, and am here, ready to test this product.



bildo said:


> But will you do it correctly as per their ever-changing instructions though?


I think so? I have literally, commercial grade IPA in 3 different forms, each more hazardous and stinky than the previous. I don't have HD cleanse but I have known finishing/light polishes that, if this doesn't work with those and a thorough IPA wipe down, it's as good as garbage. I even have Hyper Polish which is water based and doesn't require a IPA type product to buff off without residue, but I use one anyway as it's best practice.

Unfortunately, I can't stand on my head and detail at the same time (I can't stand on my head at all), so if that's required I guess I won't be certified Zymol Level Detailer extraordinaire.

But seriously, if someone has some and doesn't mind the stupid shipping costs to Canada I'm ready to go.


----------



## Sheep

broncoupe said:


> Mike Phillps just did a review on 303 Graphene similarish style product he used a slightly dampened microfibre applicator
> i wonder if that combined with 2 wet coats would work any better
> This is not a bad product infact its feel on application is better than beadmaker
> What is questionable presently is its longevity
> Find myself agreeing with Mark on this piont Brian was unduly harsh he knows he has influnce
> and that kind of sensational approach which previously i haven't noticed from him
> makes me wonder whats happening in the back ground
> Afterall his profile has raised considerably in 2020


I wouldn't call that a "wet" applicator, but rather a primed applicator. He has an article for this, the reason being is that microfiber applicators that aren't "primed" will first remove product before applying and spreading, much like a microfiber towel when you wipe down a wax. Priming it stops the towel/applicator from first removing, and lets it focus on applying and spreading the product. This can cause splotchy-ness for the first sections before the applicator is saturated.


----------



## atbalfour

Sheep said:


> Sorry, I don't watch much news. I decided to tune into it the other day and they cut off our Covid Health address to inform me that there is a crisis in the detailing community and that the beacon has been shining ever this this story broke. I got out my good shears, cleaned up my coat, and am here, ready to test this product.
> 
> I think so? I have literally, commercial grade IPA in 3 different forms, each more hazardous and stinky than the previous. I don't have HD cleanse but I have known finishing/light polishes that, if this doesn't work with those and a thorough IPA wipe down, it's as good as garbage. I even have Hyper Polish which is water based and doesn't require a IPA type product to buff off without residue, but I use one anyway as it's best practice.
> 
> Unfortunately, I can't stand on my head and detail at the same time (I can't stand on my head at all), so if that's required I guess I won't be certified Zymol Level Detailer extraordinaire.
> 
> But seriously, if someone has some and doesn't mind the stupid shipping costs to Canada I'm ready to go.


It's surely only a matter of time before someone who has parted with £40 on this posts you their bottle at their further cost.......


----------



## Sheep

atbalfour said:


> It's surely only a matter of time before someone who has parted with £40 on this posts you their bottle at their further cost.......


I can't buy it, so it's the only way. I don't want the full bottle either, I heard it doesn't work that well.

EDIT: Oh, it's available now. And on sale... wonder why.

I'll try to get this soon, but dropping $80 on a product I'm probably not going to have fun with it's tough right now with the Wife on MAT leave and going into Christmas.


----------



## budgetplan1

Sheep said:


> I can't buy it, so it's the only way. I don't want the full bottle either, I heard it doesn't work that well.
> 
> EDIT: Oh, it's available now. And on sale... wonder why.
> 
> I'll try to get this soon, but dropping $80 on a product I'm probably not going to have fun with it's tough right now with the Wife on MAT leave and going into Christmas.


I got a little curious as well; coulda probably accepted $39 worth of curiosity but to go all-in per instructions...I'm not $99 with of curious. Heck, I'm still wrestling with TopCoat F11 curiosity if that ever drops a bit in price.

Not sure it woulda liked fleet vehicle use in NE Ohio Winter regardless.


----------



## Sheep

budgetplan1 said:


> I got a little curious as well; coulda probably accepted $39 worth of curiosity but to go all-in per instructions...I'm not $99 with of curious. Heck, I'm still wrestling with TopCoat F11 curiosity if that ever drops a bit in price.
> 
> Not sure it woulda liked fleet vehicle use in NE Ohio Winter regardless.


Yeah, the HD cleanse is $35 CAD for 8.5 oz, and another $62 for AGS, both of which are sale prices. I have ways to make some spare cash for detailing fun, but with COVID numbers rising it's not happening right now. The instructions on the Canadian website selling it also don't list HD cleanse as a necessary primer, so I'm really not sure if I would want to drop the extra $40 plus shipping. It would help put another nail in the prep coffin though...


----------



## budgetplan1

Sheep said:


> Yeah, the HD cleanse is $35 CAD for 8.5 oz, and another $62 for AGS, both of which are sale prices. I have ways to make some spare cash for detailing fun, but with COVID numbers rising it's not happening right now. The instructions on the Canadian website selling it also don't list HD cleanse as a necessary primer, so I'm really not sure if I would want to drop the extra $40 plus shipping. It would help put another nail in the prep coffin though...


It sounds like a 'cleaner polish', more than a panel prep (I don't know nuthin' about Zymol obviously); $30 for 8.5oz 

"Zymöl HD-Cleanse is the most important step to protecting your car's finish by removing any dead, oxidized paint before waxing. Considered the Zymöl 'Magic', HD-Cleanse removes light oxidization, moderate scratches, accumulated road film, tar, acid rain deposits, renewing your original paint luster. Other paint cleaners and polishes rely on strong chemicals and harsh abrasives. HD-Cleanse uses safe osmosis to lift paint impurities and natural micro-fine polishing agents to correct and seal your paint."

Pretty much similar to many others like McKees:

" Polishes and preps paint for coatings, waxes and sealants - no IPA or paint strippers required!

McKee's 37 Coating Prep Polish is a non-abrasive chemical polish that deep cleans automotive paint, ridding it of below-surface contaminants that will prevent a coating, paint sealant or wax from properly bonding. Formulated without any silicones, waxes, sealants, polymers or fillers, McKee's 37 Coating Prep Polish leaves nothing on the surface, making it the ideal polish to use before applying any product that requires a 100% oil and wax free surface.

McKee's 37 Coating Prep Polish is the only polish specially formulated for application of permanent and semi-permanent paint coatings. By creating a polish that doesn't have any oils, waxes, silicones, polymers or fillers, you can apply a paint coating immediately after polishing your paint with McKee's 37 Coating Prep Polish. There is no need to chemically strip the paint using isopropyl alcohol or volatile wax and oil removers."

Oh well, at least I learned a bit about Zymol regardless


----------



## Sheep

budgetplan1 said:


> It sounds like a 'cleaner polish', more than a panel prep (I don't know nuthin' about Zymol obviously); $30 for 8.5oz
> 
> "Zymöl HD-Cleanse is the most important step to protecting your car's finish by removing any dead, oxidized paint before waxing. Considered the Zymöl 'Magic', HD-Cleanse removes light oxidization, moderate scratches, accumulated road film, tar, acid rain deposits, renewing your original paint luster. Other paint cleaners and polishes rely on strong chemicals and harsh abrasives. HD-Cleanse uses safe osmosis to lift paint impurities and natural micro-fine polishing agents to correct and seal your paint."
> 
> Pretty much similar to many others like McKees:
> 
> " Polishes and preps paint for coatings, waxes and sealants - no IPA or paint strippers required!
> 
> McKee's 37 Coating Prep Polish is a non-abrasive chemical polish that deep cleans automotive paint, ridding it of below-surface contaminants that will prevent a coating, paint sealant or wax from properly bonding. Formulated without any silicones, waxes, sealants, polymers or fillers, McKee's 37 Coating Prep Polish leaves nothing on the surface, making it the ideal polish to use before applying any product that requires a 100% oil and wax free surface.
> 
> McKee's 37 Coating Prep Polish is the only polish specially formulated for application of permanent and semi-permanent paint coatings. By creating a polish that doesn't have any oils, waxes, silicones, polymers or fillers, you can apply a paint coating immediately after polishing your paint with McKee's 37 Coating Prep Polish. There is no need to chemically strip the paint using isopropyl alcohol or volatile wax and oil removers."
> 
> Oh well, at least I learned a bit about Zymol regardless


Yeah I read that on their website. It is odd though that the listed ingredients are mostly oils. Makes me think that either A.) That list is false, or B.) you MUST wipe down/strip the residue before a coating type product is applied as those would surely limit the ability to adhere.

Of course, it sounds like that level of detail and instruction will never come out.


----------



## budgetplan1

Sheep said:


> Of course, it sounds like that level of detail and instruction will never come out.


It's a curiously compelling saga...


----------



## BRUN

with the amount of product you apparently need, is it even possible to do a full car with one bottle ? apart from maybe something thats Citroen C1 sized maybe


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

BRUN said:


> with the amount of product you apparently need, is it even possible to do a full car with one bottle ? apart from maybe something thats Citroen C1 sized maybe


Zymol want to make up the minds for the true reasons for the poor performance, first it was Brians prep, then the lack of not using their cleanse and now not using enough product.
Zymol have not done themselves any favours in their handling of this farce.

Has everybody noticed the total lack of Youtube testers trying Zymol Atomic Graphene.....speaks volumes


----------



## broncoupe

The worst of this is Zymol are in that privileged position enviable position 
That we want them to sort this and will basically forgive them in an instant 
Its a brand we want to hold in high esteem


----------



## AndyQash

AndyQash said:


> Hi Mark...no problem, pal...but I'd really appreciate an answer to my above post ( #207 )
> 
> On that 30cm X 45cm section how much product should people be using, because if 11 squirts is not enough then I don't know what is.
> 
> I really do think this needs to be clarified, because putting down a Heavy coat could mean different things to different people.


I would have really liked an answer to my post ( #207 ) but never mind, I would imagine that is because Zymol's Application Video is very close to being released and that will reveal all, so I can appreciate that.

And on the subject of said video, I think it's going to be really interesting to see how Zymol's prep differs to Brian's and how much product Zymol actually use.


----------



## Alan W

DIESEL DAVE said:


> Has everybody noticed the total lack of Youtube testers trying Zymol Atomic Graphene.....speaks volumes


There are a couple of German videos to be found if you search. 

Alan W


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

Alan W said:


> There are a couple of German videos to be found if you search.
> 
> Alan W


Yeah but you know what mean Alan, there hasn`t been the normal run of the usual testers although many have tested 303 and Adams graphene sprays and the new Turtlewax Pro


----------



## Alan W

DIESEL DAVE said:


> Yeah but you know what mean Alan, there hasn`t been the normal run of the usual testers although many have tested 303 and Adams graphene sprays and the new Turtlewax Pro


Yes, that's true Dave but I don't believe Zymol as a brand appeals to modern day and younger detailers like it once did. Their reputation was gained with waxes in the noughties and there have been no significant changes or new products since then except 'Quadra' that sank like a lead balloon.

Alan W


----------



## noorth

Alan W said:


> Yes, that's true Dave but I don't believe Zymol as a brand appeals to modern day and younger detailers like it once did. Their reputation was gained with waxes in the noughties and there have been no significant changes or new products since then except 'Quadra' that sank like a lead balloon.
> 
> Alan W


I can attest to this, Zymol doesn't appeal to me in the least. Its quite obvious people like myself are usually all sweep up in the ceramic stuff. I've been into the "detailing world" for about 2 years.  People like new.


----------



## Rappy

Alan W said:


> Yes, that's true Dave but I don't believe Zymol as a brand appeals to modern day and younger detailers like it once did. Their reputation was gained with waxes in the noughties and there have been no significant changes or new products since then except 'Quadra' that sank like a lead balloon.
> 
> Alan W





noorth said:


> I've been into the "detailing world" for about 2 years.  People like new.


Old farts like me over 25 yrs detailing :lol:


----------



## noorth

Rappy said:


> Old farts like me over 25 yrs detailing :lol:


I'm no spring chicken. 

Whats funny, if anyone has seen scotty kilmer's youtube channel - thats more about different car companies and mechanical work - that channel put me on to car detailing!

About 2 years ago i was looking for a good used car. So i was doing some research and i found his channel were he raved about toyota and honda. One video i watch he started to talk about waxing his car with nu finish.

Then i found the ammonyc channel and the rest is....well..history. :lol:


----------



## Sheep

noorth said:


> I'm no spring chicken.
> 
> Whats funny, if anyone has seen scotty kilmer's youtube channel - thats more about different car companies and mechanical work - that channel put me on to car detailing!
> 
> About 2 years ago i was looking for a good used car. So i was doing some research and i found his channel were he raved about toyota and honda. One video i watch he started to talk about waxing his car with nu finish.
> 
> Then i found the ammonyc channel and the rest is....well..history. :lol:


Do yourself a favor and forget anything that hack says. He's not a reliable source of information.


----------



## noorth

Sheep said:


> Do yourself a favor and forget anything that hack says. He's not a reliable source of information.


I haven't watched his video in over a year. But thanks for the heads up.

I do love my 2016 special edition camry though.  Very nice blue color, i've only seen 2 others the same color but i don't live in a city.


----------



## Loach

I will re-emphasize again, the idea that Brian was deficient in the way that he actually prepped the test panel for his test is 100% nonsense. You can argue all you want for the Corvette but his application was spot on for the test panel and that was a HEAVY application.

The only way you’re going to see a different outcome is if there’s a legitimate stacking effect through multiple cured applications, or if Atomic Graphene is actually using the base hydrophobics of the sio2 infused new HD Cleanse to piggyback onto as a legitimate primer. In which case I would expect the sio2 infused HD Cleanse to be paired with most sales of Atomic Graphene, nearly reaching $100 USD which isn’t going to be viable for consumers. 

I’m not one to be easily offended by any means, and I’m still not offended in this case. But to again infer that Brian was deficient in his prep for his test panel in this case is nearly breaching on the realm of being offensive for any one of us that claims to be an actual product tester. Where all products are tested using abrasives and panel wipes and judged accordingly by their recommended application instructions as listed on the back of their individual bottles.


----------



## The Rover

After following this thread I finally got round to trying this product on my 2007 Mercedes C220 project car.
It's previously had a multi stage paint correction so today I gave it a full paint decontamination followed by a lot of panel wipe(Upol) & then a very generous coating with the Zymol, wiped over, left for a couple of minutes, another spray & a final buff off.

At the moment the car looks great, especially as this car has over 180,000 miles on the clock.
I'll see how this coating holds up over the next few weeks & months & report back.


----------



## RaceGlazer

Thank you for doing a proper thorough use of the product and posting up pictures. The car looks amazing.

If anyone else now wishes to make up their own mind, and use the product, fresh stocks arrived in the last 5 minutes.


----------



## Muska

Rather than anyone else potentially wasting money on buying a full bottle If anyone can point me to some cheap 100ml bottle I can decant mine into I'll be happy to make a thread in the sales section and give them away for people to test who don't mind reporting back on their results.


----------



## Brian1612

https://www.ibottles.co.uk/plastic-pet-boston-bottles-tall.html

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk


----------



## Muska

Perfect, thank you. I've just ordered 6.


----------



## Alan W

Muska said:


> Rather than anyone else potentially wasting money on buying a full bottle If anyone can point me to some cheap 100ml bottle I can decant mine into I'll be happy to make a thread in the sales section and give them away for people to test who don't mind reporting back on their results.


Great idea Muska and you can count me in for a sample please. :thumb:

I'm sure most people would be more than willing to cover the postage cost as a minimum. 

Alan W


----------



## Rappy

Alan W said:


> Great idea Muska and you can count me in for a sample please. :thumb:
> 
> I'm sure most people would be more than willing to cover the postage cost as a minimum.
> 
> Alan W


Same here :thumb:


----------



## Brian1612

I was keen myself but I don't have any HD Cleanse. I suspect any reviews without that are just going to be discounted as poor prep looking at how this thread has gone.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk


----------



## Alan W

Brian1612 said:


> I was keen myself but I don't have any HD Cleanse. I suspect any reviews without that are just going to be discounted as poor prep looking at how this thread has gone.


I thought the same Brian but I'm not so sure, see quote from Mark below:



RaceGlazer said:


> HD-Cleanse is a panel prep that leaves nothing behind. Has always been the same.
> HD does a known job on the panel which is why Zymol recommend it (and of course will always recommend their own product as has sagely been noted) and I know that in the real world, folks will use what they have to hand or what does the job, but in this case, *if they don't use HD then they have to ensure the panel is totally clean*, as they would with anything else.


Alan W


----------



## fatdazza

Looking at the listed ingredients listed for HD Cleanse:

Zymol HD-Cleanse contains: Montan Oil, Apricot Kernel Oil, Lemon Seed Oil, Coconut Oil, Cetyl Esters, Cetyl Cocomide (derived from coconut oil), Cocoamide, Citric Acid (from rose hips), Kapolite.

I cannot believe it leaves nothing behind. :doublesho

Would love someone to convince me......

All those oils simply vanish eh?


This thread is just one huge can of worms........


----------



## broncoupe

Do worms leave anything behind


----------



## BRUN

Pretty sure I have some HD cleanse, I could try some out on scrap panel at work


----------



## fatdazza

BRUN said:


> Pretty sure I have some HD cleanse, I could try some out on scrap panel at work


With those oils, I bet it beads like a goodun.


----------



## Brian1612

It actually states it leaves a layer of si02 protection behind so definitely doesn't leave the paint bare.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk


----------



## AndyQash

Zymol do seem very insistent on HD-Cleanse being used, as stated below from the website.

"You must use Zymol HD-Cleanse to remove old wax, tar and stains before applying any Zymol Waxes or Glazes; otherwise they will not bond to the paint surface."

After the change to the application instructions on the bottle, it would appear that Graphene Shield falls into this category too.

Maybe HD-Cleanse is an integral part of the application process, because as we have seen, if you don't use it then Graphene Shield won't last very long.


----------



## fatdazza

And then you have an authorised UK reseller telling us that HD Cleanse "leaves nothing behind. Has always been the same"

Doesn't add up?


----------



## BRUN

my HD Cleanse is the old one, which iirc from the bottle contains various oils, not used it for a while though


----------



## The Rover

Just had a nice bit of Lancashire rain so first chance to check out the water behaviour.
I'll wait a week before washing the car to make sure it's fully cured & then check how this coatings holding up.


----------



## BRUN

did you use the new HD Cleanse first, did you use an entire bottle per panel, is your name Brian......?


----------



## Alan W

Sorry, but If I’m honest those beads don’t look very good – they should be round, tight and uniform if the LSP is recently applied.

Alan W


----------



## Coatings

Alan W said:


> Sorry, but If I'm honest those beads don't look very good - they should be round, tight and uniform if the LSP is recently applied.
> 
> Alan W


Yeah........ 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RaceGlazer

I have asked Chuck Bennett, CEO of Zymol for the irrefutable word on HD-Cleanse. 

As follows:
HD-Cleanse, if applied properly, does not leave residue or any oils on the paint surface. The primary oils, Apricot Kernel and Cocoa have been spun as thin as DMSO as evidenced by many users reporting they can taste HD while using it. The application should always end with wiping the surface with a Zymol Microwipe to remove any excess oils and/or SiO2 still on the surface.

So - can customers use other panel prep products:
I can’t speak for other company’s products. Many paint prep products contain petrol solvents and even though they have a low flash point there still remains a deterrent to AG bonding INTO the paint.

Some here are saying the oils in it surely leaves something behind ? 
No residuals


----------



## atbalfour

Alan W said:


> Sorry, but If I'm honest those beads don't look very good - they should be round, tight and uniform if the LSP is recently applied.
> 
> Alan W


Agree, and similar to the mis-shapen beads we saw from Muska earlier in the thread. The only thing I'm shocked about is how much attention this irrelevant product from an outdated brand has got.

Even if it did last, which it doesn't, who really wants this over a bottle of Cancoat? You'd need to be insane.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## Muska

@Rover, are you happy with the performance of your coating so far?

The 120ml bottles and spray triggers I ordered have arrived.

Tomorrow I'll get them decanted and a thread up for those interested.


----------



## The Rover

Muska- The coating has only been on for a few days & it's not had a first wash yet so too early to say, although it does look good on my Diamond Black paint.

I'll see how it performs over the next few weeks & I'll let you know how it's doing.


----------



## bigkahunaburger

This product reminds me of Quadra
https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=390970
That one also needed you to use lots.

I can't say as I have ever been tempted by any of Zymol's non-wax products myself. I love their waxes though. They might be expensive but they really are some of the best on the market.


----------



## AndyQash

Anybody know if Zymol's application video has surfaced yet?


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

AndyQash said:


> Anybody know if Zymol's application video has surfaced yet?


Think they`re waiting for Spielberg Andy :lol:


----------



## AndyQash

From E.T. to AG...I can't wait.


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

AndyQash said:


> From E.T. to AG...I can't wait.


It`ll sure be a CGI fantasy


----------



## RaceGlazer

I have today spoken at considerable length with Chuck Bennett, CEO of Zymol.

The video is imminent, early next week. Its hands-on style, not marketing. No CGI, monsters or aliens lol.

One important fact that I did learn - the Zymol product contains genuine 2D Graphene, not the far cheaper 3D graphene oxide, commonly known as graphite. I cant name the other (cheaper) brand that we discussed that uses graphite though. Zymol product becomes part of the paint, which is why the surface must be totally clean as otherwise it sits on the top and fails to bond, and can be removed. So, its not a coating like wax or ceramic, it becomes part of the paint itself. Its a far bigger concept than most people understand.


----------



## fatdazza

Can you therefore humour me and explain how the recommended preparation with HD Cleanse leaves that totally clean surface?


----------



## AndyQash

RaceGlazer said:


> So - can customers use other panel prep products:
> I can't speak for other company's products. Many paint prep products contain petrol solvents and even though they have a low flash point there still remains a deterrent to AG bonding INTO the paint.


Hi Mark...just to clarify on the above, are you saying that if you use another companies paint prep product and not HD-Cleanse there is a chance that AG isn't going to bond into the paint?

And if that is the case, does this mean that if you want AG to bond, then you must use HD-Cleanse?

As I stated on a previous post, Zymol do seem very insistent on HD-Cleanse being used with all their Wax and Glazes.

Thanks for the update on the video, really looking forward to it.


----------



## Alan W

Andy,

Mark has stated that HD-Cleanse does not leave _anything_ behind. If that is the case, and some doubt it (for good reason looking at the ingredients), a good quality slow panel wipe, _applied properly_, after a thorough decon and prep will do the same thing (if not better in my opinion) and leave the paint squeaky clean to ensure the maximum bond with the LSP.

Alan W


----------



## AndyQash

RaceGlazer said:


> So - can customers use other panel prep products:
> I can't speak for other company's products. Many paint prep products contain petrol solvents and even though they have a low flash point there still remains a deterrent to AG bonding INTO the paint


It was the above comments that got me thinking, Alan...it does read along the lines of if you use another companies paint prep products, ones that contain petrol solvents, then AG is not going to bond to the paint.


----------



## CharliesTTS

I’m confused! Are there two versions of hd cleanse? One that leaves the paint bare and another that seals the paint?


----------



## Alan W

AndyQash said:


> It was the above comments that got me thinking, Alan...it does read along the lines of if you use another companies paint prep products, ones that contain petrol solvents, then AG is not going to bond to the paint.


A high quality panel wipe such as Spies Hecker 7010 does not contain petrol solvents. It uses a high grade organic solvent mixture to effectively remove oil and grease residues from paint prior to repainting or applying ceramic crystal lacquer coatings and nano coatings.

If it's good enough for those it should be (more than) good enough for Zymol Atomic Graphene.

Alan W


----------



## AndyQash

CharliesTTS said:


> I'm confused! Are there two versions of hd cleanse? One that leaves the paint bare and another that seals the paint?


It is very confusing and maybe there are two different versions, because if one leaves no residuals, then the one in the link must be a different product as this one seals the paint.

https://www.zymol.com/HD-cleanse.aspx


----------



## GeeWhizRS

Never have I heard of a product that is so finicky in application to warrant such confusion, backtracking and tweaking of application instructions. This sounds like something Whitty & Vallance have come up with.


----------



## JU5T1N

RaceGlazer said:


> I have today spoken at considerable length with Chuck Bennett, CEO of Zymol.
> 
> The video is imminent, early next week. Its hands-on style, not marketing. No CGI, monsters or aliens lol.
> 
> One important fact that I did learn - the Zymol product contains genuine 2D Graphene, not the far cheaper 3D graphene oxide, commonly known as graphite. I cant name the other (cheaper) brand that we discussed that uses graphite though. Zymol product becomes part of the paint, which is why the surface must be totally clean as otherwise it sits on the top and fails to bond, and can be removed. So, its not a coating like wax or ceramic, it becomes part of the paint itself. Its a far bigger concept than most people understand.


I bet the cheaper brands product doesn't require some unknown mystic ritual to get it work properly, it would appear the cheaper ingredients actually work better in the real world. 
It looks like the word from zymol is this is the best product ever but nobody understands :lol: I think at this point statements like that will just annoy customers who can't get the product to work as advertised and just be laughed at by everyone else.


----------



## GC#65

I bought a bottle and had it delivered when they landed from US.
Today is the first time I used it and on my wife’s dark grey Voyager.
I had previously spoken to Raceglaze to ask about prep and use etc.
So, I did a decon wash with Garage Therapy Zero, clay sponge and a thorough rinse and towel dried down without any kind of drying aid. Gyeon Prep spray and wipe down as that’s the only panel wipe type thing I have.
I used the “feels like you are using way too much product here” method as instructed.
Each panel was drenched and left for about 2 minutes and then buffed off with a mist on the MF cloth.
It is very easy on and very easy off and that is a plus.
The car is massive and the roof neeed to be done in 4 parts. I had got about halfway through and we had a very slight shower, hardly anything but the rain sat up with decent beads.
However, as with other LSP sprays, when you spray it on water, it tends to push the water away, this doesn’t. This has already gotten me bothered because I am sure this will be on the list of “ooh, a nanolitre of water” type no-nos.
I used between a third and half a bottle, as per “loadsa liquid” method and this equates to as much as £20 for one application. Yes, it’s a big car but that is a lot of money.
The car is super glossy and very slick but is that the Zymol, or just because the paint is so clean? Who knows?
I will monitor how it behaves but for £20, it had better be s&£t hot, otherwise, I will have to add to the growing list of dissatisfied people.


----------



## -Kev-

As per forum rules, anyone with questions on moderatiom needs to contact us directly rather than taking a thread off topic. Thanks


----------



## GC#65

Beading update.
We’ve had a fair bit of rain and whilst I am not that bothered about super tight beading, I do like a bit, sort of feels like the effort was worth while and a visible sign of protection. I am not about to get a micrometer on them anyway.
The rain beads up fairly well and I am trying to get a photo in good light to share.
There was a photo on this thread of a black car with far flatter beads than I am getting. I probably won’t wash the car for about a month, so will see how it responds to that.
Will keep my eye on it but so far, not so bad.


----------



## RaceGlazer

I have just seen the Zymol Graphene application video. You will soon all know how much product to use when applying it. 

It will be live today and I will share it as soon as it is.


----------



## RaceGlazer

Video has just gone live, here: 




I hope this is useful.

I would of course most appreciate comment from people who have bought the product or who would at least seriously consider doing so. I'd rather not have to read pages of random people just having a go at the brand, product, video, me, timing or Zymol.

Be kind - its Christmas....


----------



## sharrkey

Think you’ll need a few ltrs of hd cleanse to do a full car the amount he was applying to that section, I suspect unless you using all zymol products to wash clean and cleanse before applying if you get failure from product it will be blamed on that. 

Sorry to say but this looks like a epic failure from start to finish. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## CharliesTTS

Two months to produce that? Only my opinion of course but that would be better off on a home shopping channel!


----------



## RaceGlazer

A HD Cleanse bottle is 250ml. The video says a bottle. Isn't that clear enough ?


----------



## Muska

Mark, firstly thank you for working with Zymol to help get this video produced. While our views on this situation may differ I really appreciate that you've seen this through and offered support, opinion & relayed messages from the manufacturer. Your commitment is greatly appreciated.

Here are the instruction on the bottle I received:









There never was any mention of HD-Cleanse in the marketing or on the bottle itself. I would have had a very different buying consideration had I known I might need several bottles of another Zymol product for this to work. This to me is a stark contrast to the instructions I acted upon and I think I was fair to presume my paint would be clean enough having used an IPA for this product to adhere longer than a single wash. After all, the CanCoat applied at the same time had no issues...

I truly feel like this product was either mis-marketed or miss-sold (not by Mark, just to be clear) and Zymol seem unlikely to ever admit either as the only word we have had from them up to this video being released is what Mark has passed on.

Disappointed with the whole experience of this product. I hope others can find satisfaction now the official application method has been revealed.


----------



## Lexus-is250

Must say I've stayed out of this one to see it how it plays out and give people a chance but that video is an absolute shocker. You would be blowing a fortune on products that even if they delivered what is claimed, is no real amazing next level stuff. 

I just cant see that catching on, I'd rather wait for the Turtlewax stuff. 

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk


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## 20vKarlos

HD Cleanse... You may need more than one bottle on one car... proceeds to use 1/3 of the bottle on a quarter of the bonnet...

Are these guys serious?


----------



## RaceGlazer

Apologies for the lack of performing seals and talking horses on the video.
It’s car cleaning product for heavens sake, did we expect pyrotechnics and dancing girls?
I’ll get Clarkson to make the next one.


----------



## GC#65

My bottle reads as Muska’s does, with no mention of HD Cleanse.
As I posted about my first use the other day, note I didn’t use HD Cleanse.
I am hopeful this product is going to work but am now not convinced.
Does the lack of HD Cleanse use mean it will fail?
If it does, then is that on me?
I am trying to be kind but paying out a LOT of money and not getting that money worth doesn’t feel that kind to me.


----------



## sharrkey

RaceGlazer said:


> Apologies for the lack of performing seals and talking horses on the video.
> It's car cleaning product for heavens sake, did we expect pyrotechnics and dancing girls?
> I'll get Clarkson to make the next one.


Dancing Girls might be the only thing that helps Sell it now, thou the whole wash/cleanse & protect cost might equal with a quality Lap Dance in the right bar.

I'm confident what will put a smile on my face more

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Lexus-is250

RaceGlazer said:


> Apologies for the lack of performing seals and talking horses on the video.
> It's car cleaning product for heavens sake, did we expect pyrotechnics and dancing girls?
> I'll get Clarkson to make the next one.


That attitude wont do it any good. Appreciate your frustration with some of this and also the work you have put in to try and rescue the situation, alongside the updates you have been doing, for me I do appreciate it.

As a group of people who unfortunately for some manufacturers rely on detailing world, forums and or YouTube for results on products they are going to spend their hard earned money on. If we believed every person or manufacturers claim on products we would all be skint.

Car manufacturers spend billions on cars and guess what, some just dont cut the mustard dispite their claims.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk


----------



## CharliesTTS

RaceGlazer said:


> Apologies for the lack of performing seals and talking horses on the video.
> It's car cleaning product for heavens sake, did we expect pyrotechnics and dancing girls?
> I'll get Clarkson to make the next one.


Yes please, if you don't mind?

I'm not sure anyone was expecting performing seals and horses?

I think we were expecting a detailed application video (your post number 114)..for detailers who apparently haven't the skill set to apply this product?

Instead we get a 2.29 minute video..50% on how to use a nice shampoo and wash with a sponge..followed by a liberal application of hd cleanse (the Si02 version naturally..not the everyday hd cleanse) and a very heavy use of the product in question?

Personally..I find your posts very condescending without actually addressing the reason this thread is nearly 300 posts long..the product has been mis sold and the goal posts have been moved on several occasions?

The production of this video is the icing on the cake!


----------



## RaceGlazer

I’m happy to take individuals who have bought the products questions via email - you will have my address.
I’m working on further developments to try to make this right. Excuse my frustration, am doing more than I should need to already.


----------



## RaceGlazer

CharliesTTS said:


> Yes please, if you don't mind?
> 
> I'm not sure anyone was expecting performing seals and horses?
> 
> I think we were expecting a detailed application video (your post number 114)..for detailers who apparently haven't the skill set to apply this product?
> 
> Instead we get a 2.29 minute video..50% on how to use a nice shampoo and wash with a sponge..followed by a liberal application of hd cleanse (the Si02 version naturally..not the everyday hd cleanse) and a very heavy use of the product in question?
> 
> Personally..I find your posts very condescending without actually addressing the reason this thread is nearly 300 posts long..the product has been mis sold and the goal posts have been moved on several occasions?
> 
> The production of this video is the icing on the cake!


If you bought the product then please contact me via email, thanks


----------



## atbalfour

Echo the thoughts of the guys above. No issues with video quality though, just the content. 

I will not take anyone seriously who tells me to wash with a sponge. Kinda sums up Zymol who are stuck in the 90s.

Atomic Graphene Shield 'becomes part of the paint', how does this work when there is a layer of SiO2 beneath? You yourself clearly didn't know which HD Cleanse Zymol were on about when you said it left nothing behind - seemingly making it up as you go. 

Has anyone totted up the potential costs of one application? We're talking 5 year ceramic coating costs!!! 

And last but not least, the water behaviour displayed at the end is worse than you'd get with a wash and wax shampoo. 

Mark the continued defense of your position and general condescending attitude in this thread has been astonishing. How not to behave as a retailer selling a dud on a public forum, blindly finger pointing at everyone but Zymol. Appreciate the entertainment. 

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## GeeWhizRS

So what you are saying is you are only entertaining those that have bought the product and not those that are merely interested in it? That's an interesting approach for a salesman. To me it seemed that there was good interest in this product initially now not only have Zymol dropped the ball with this stuff, their UK stockist have kicked said ball into the lake.


----------



## CharliesTTS

RaceGlazer said:


> If you bought the product then please contact me via email, thanks


I'm just a casual observer..so I don't have a vested interest either way!

Having said that..it's a forum for a discussion and view points..I believe mine are clear..unlike Zymol instructions and if I may say..your myopic replies?


----------



## JU5T1N

As someone who hasn't purchased the product I enjoyed the video I thought it was hilarious the fact that this 2 minute video took 2 months to make and the production quality considering zymol is supposed to be a premium brand. 
Also the washing with a sponge the application of hd cleanse :lol: . You would need 4-5 bottles of hd cleanse and at least 2 bottles of atomic shield at a cost of over £100 to follow this application video for a whole car. I would feel insulted by this video if I had brought the product though.


----------



## big dave 666

If HD Cleanse, SI02 infused is £25 per bottle, and a full bottle has to be used, along with say half a bottle of ZAG that's £45 per application. Can't see it taking off!!!!


----------



## sm81

Plain and simple... this look ridiculous.


----------



## 66Rob

I am a big Zymol fan but will stick with Field Glaze and Glasur thank you.


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

RaceGlazer said:


> I'm happy to take individuals who have bought the products questions via email - you will have my address.
> I'm working on further developments to try to make this right. Excuse my frustration, am doing more than I should need to already.


As the first purchaser of this product in the UK can I ask if Zymol are prepared to offer a refund for a mis-sold / misrepresented product ?


----------



## 20vKarlos

Gents, the reason of which Raceglazer is asking people to message him directly is for one reason and one reason only. 

This product has and will continue to have a negative effect on Zymol’s reputation.

The longer this discussion continues on this forum, the more likely someone will stumble upon this thread when searching “ZYMOL ATOMIC GRAPHENE SHIELD“

That will obviously result in further negative comments/reviews and in the grand scheme, this product will not sell like ZYMOL wish it too.

Do I agree with that move, No.

I lived in Canada for 3 years and if that video isn’t an classed as an advert, then I’m eating bricks for lunch. 

Raceglazer, I appreciate your frustrations at the response to this product and I understand the predicament it leaves you in. I would however, maintain conversation within this thread and perhaps look at it from a buyers point of view. Maybe, go back to ZYMOL and send a link to this thread, as they need to understand the frustrations from the buyers perspective and then they can act on them.

They don’t mention HD Cleanse on the bottle from what I’ve seen, and the video is either;
1) You MUST use HD Cleanse
2) We recommend HD Cleanse as we want to sell more product and this is the one we recommend. 

If option 1 is the correct option, then the bottles need relabelling and those that have bought this product with the original label, should be given an incentive to continue with it.

If option 2 is the correct option, then this video needs to be remade. From a marketing perspective it would be better to say something like “you can use and IPA of your choice, but we recommend HD Cleanse” that way it is impartial, those of us that know what products we have and what we could use as a cheaper alternative, would do just that, but you’d also get those that purchase it just because it’s a recommendation.

Let’s just remember the days of buying waxes, a customer (Us Forum Users) wouldn’t bat an eyelid at £100+ per pot. I made an ZYMOL still have one on CleanYourCar at over £1K...

What I’m saying here is, no matter how expensive the product is, if it works and it’s proven to be a great product, people will pay the price


----------



## RaceGlazer

Folks, I'm exhausted by this. I'm also recovering from illness and have lots else on my plate with, so am as disappointed as those who have purchased it that the product hasn't been received how Zymol hoped but will continue to try to respond to the thread. 

Clearly I had no control over the product development, application method, launch, labelling, video etc, as many realise. Clearly my attempt at levity yesterday wasn't appreciated, I guess some just don't get my sense of humour so I apologise for that.

But although the video does show, irrespective of its style, how to use the product, yes, I was also surprised at how much HD is recommended, how it was applied and ignored the sponge sales pitch. If you use less HD then you just have to make sure it doesn't dry out on application, you may not need that much for a smaller car. Use a wash mitt if you prefer - I do.

As Zymol representative in the UK I cannot go against what the video says. I cant give alternative application instructions obviously. And I cant respond to individual queries in a fast moving thread like this, which is why I asked for people to contact me directly, 2 of whom have done so, one of whom I phoned back. I will however continue to feed back to Zymols CEO and Vice-President and report back here.


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

RaceGlazer said:


> Folks, I'm exhausted by this. I'm also recovering from illness and have lots else on my plate with, so am as disappointed as those who have purchased it that the product hasn't been received how Zymol hoped but will continue to try to respond to the thread.
> 
> Clearly I had no control over the product development, application method, launch, labelling, video etc, as many realise.


Mark we know you are not at fault for this situation but you do appear to be taking it very personally.
I`m sure nobody holds you responsible for any of this.
Zymol on the other hand seem quite content to sit back and let you take the flack that is aimed at them and its for them to properly address it.


----------



## Rappy

Diesel Dave is correct :thumb:

Just parking the detailing to one side & more importantly. As I'm sure most on here will agree. 

Mark I wish you good health & a speedy recovery from you ill health.

Best wishes & Merry Xmas,

Rappy 

P.S if you can let me know when the dancing girls will be along for the next video, I'm sure to take a look :lol::lol:


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

Rappy said:


> Mark I wish you good health & a speedy recovery from you ill health.
> 
> Best wishes & Merry Xmas,


Yep and the same from me :thumb:


----------



## 66Rob

All the best Mark. I hope you are fully on the mend soon.


----------



## 20vKarlos

RaceGlazer said:


> Folks, I'm exhausted by this. I'm also recovering from illness and have lots else on my plate with, so am as disappointed as those who have purchased it that the product hasn't been received how Zymol hoped but will continue to try to respond to the thread.
> 
> Clearly I had no control over the product development, application method, launch, labelling, video etc, as many realise. Clearly my attempt at levity yesterday wasn't appreciated, I guess some just don't get my sense of humour so I apologise for that.
> 
> But although the video does show, irrespective of its style, how to use the product, yes, I was also surprised at how much HD is recommended, how it was applied and ignored the sponge sales pitch. If you use less HD then you just have to make sure it doesn't dry out on application, you may not need that much for a smaller car. Use a wash mitt if you prefer - I do.
> 
> As Zymol representative in the UK I cannot go against what the video says. I cant give alternative application instructions obviously. And I cant respond to individual queries in a fast moving thread like this, which is why I asked for people to contact me directly, 2 of whom have done so, one of whom I phoned back. I will however continue to feed back to Zymols CEO and Vice-President and report back here.


Nothing personal Mark, it's just such a shame that you're having to answer our questions.

I suppose, from Zymol's point of view, it's a question from the UK buyers so you should be the port of call, but to be honest, to save all the back and forth, I will be staying away from their products, as there needs to be d3finitive answer from them.

As others have stated already, nobody wishes ill health upon you, I hope it's something recoverable and that you make a speedy recovery

All the best


----------



## Sheep

At this point, I will be avoiding all Graphene products as it's fairly obvious that most manufactures are simply adding black powder into otherwise SiO2 or Polymer based products (Except for Zymol, they added it to plain water). Those that aren't, still haven't cracked the graphene code and made anything more impressive than the best ceramic has to offer.


----------



## fatdazza

I would like to pose the question, that with all of the multi million (or even billion) pound potential benefits of getting a layer of graphene to bond with a surface, how have a number of small car care companies solved this issue when others have not?

Or is it simply a case of adding "graphene" to the marketing blurb, as was the case with "nano" or "Sio2" or "9H"?


----------



## noorth

Sheep said:


> At this point, I will be avoiding all Graphene products as it's fairly obvious that most manufactures are simply adding black powder into otherwise SiO2 or Polymer based products* (Except for Zymol, they added it to plain water). * Those that aren't, still haven't cracked the graphene code and made anything more impressive than the best ceramic has to offer.


:lol:


----------



## Sheep

fatdazza said:


> I would like to pose the question, that with all of the multi million (or even billion) pound potential benefits of getting a layer of graphene to bond with a surface, how have a number of small car care companies solved this issue when others have not?
> 
> Or is it simply a case of adding "graphene" to the marketing blurb, as was the case with "nano" or "Sio2" or "9H"?


I mean, if you put graphene oxide into a product, technically you're probably allowed to advertise it as such. Now, when I watched the Chicago auto pros video on the product, the interview with the Dr. Besleys guy made it fairly clear that none of these products are getting anything out of the graphemes components being added. If he's being 100% truthful and that nothing they have come up with in the 6 years they've been making attempts has shown any improvement over a good ceramic products, that's all I need to hear.

If I was in the position to, I would actually go buy a product from them, simply because they're being honest.


----------



## BRUN

20vKarlos said:


> The longer this discussion continues on this forum, the more likely someone will stumble upon this thread when searching "ZYMOL ATOMIC GRAPHENE SHIELD"


it was already one of the top results on google weeks ago, might even be top now ?


----------



## Turbo Tony

As a purchaser, I'd like to ask a question please:

I used a lot of the product when I applied it. Certainly enough for it (as the video says) to 'collect on the surface'. I hold out a glimmer of hope that it bonded to my paintwork. I topped it with Zymol Vintage so, right now, I'm only seeing the behaviour of that product (plus maybe a little Ammo Hydrate after washing).

With that said, assuming it did bond, how can I remove the product so I can reapply with a heavier coating in spring/summer?

As an aside, I also noticed something else on the video that contradicted the instructions and that was the dwell time. My bottle said 90-120 seconds where the video states 2-5mins before wiping off. It also introduced the idea of layering the product. Naturally, both of these make me feel more anxious that it didn't bond properly on my car.


----------



## atbalfour

Turbo Tony said:


> As a purchaser, I'd like to ask a question please:
> 
> I used a lot of the product when I applied it. Certainly enough for it (as the video says) to 'collect on the surface'. I hold out a glimmer of hope that it bonded to my paintwork. I topped it with Zymol Vintage so, right now, I'm only seeing the behaviour of that product (plus maybe a little Ammo Hydrate after washing).
> 
> With that said, assuming it did bond, how can I remove the product so I can reapply with a heavier coating in spring/summer?
> 
> As an aside, I also noticed something else on the video that contradicted the instructions and that was the dwell time. My bottle said 90-120 seconds where the video states 2-5mins before wiping off. It also introduced the idea of layering the product. Naturally, both of these make me feel more anxious that it didn't bond properly on my car.


Some rain will probably take it off Tony!


----------



## JU5T1N

Sheep said:


> At this point, I will be avoiding all Graphene products as it's fairly obvious that most manufactures are simply adding black powder into otherwise SiO2 or Polymer based products (Except for Zymol, they added it to plain water). Those that aren't, still haven't cracked the graphene code and made anything more impressive than the best ceramic has to offer.


All products use polymers to bond to the paint, carnauba,sio2 and Graphene are additives attached to the polymer molecules to increase durability or alter the way light is reflected. Some of the newer graphene products have performed quite well like the Adam's UV Graphene Ceramic Spray Coating and turtle wax flex outforming the previous sio2 products, but is the improved performance down to the Graphene or improvement in polymers.


----------



## Brian1612

Wow... all that time to come up with a video as bad as that. Don't use a wash mitt as it scratches the paint, use a sponge... I was waiting on the punch line 

With the amount of HD Cleanse this advises using, I suspect you'll be lucky to get around the car with a 1L bottle. Zymol really are living in the past judging from this video. What an absolute disaster for Zymol.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk


----------



## Alex L

Brian1612 said:


> Wow... all that time to come up with a video as bad as that. Don't use a wash mitt as it scratches the paint, use a sponge... I was waiting on the punch line
> 
> With the amount of HD Cleanse this advises using, I suspect you'll be lucky to get around the car with a 1L bottle. Zymol really are living in the past judging from this video. What an absolute disaster for Zymol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk


Nothing wrong with using a good sponge, I've been using the one that came with Soft99 Extra Gold and had no damage.

Same as using the Zymol sponge.


----------



## macca666

Alex L said:


> Nothing wrong with using a good sponge, I've been using the one that came with Soft99 Extra Gold and had no damage.
> 
> Same as using the Zymol sponge.


I know this discussion has been done before however for me it's not about the using of the sponge it's the fact that they're advising not to use a wash mitt as it will scratch your paint..........despite the chenille wash mitt winning the PVD testing as the most safest method think it was in issue 10 :thumb:


----------



## Alex L

macca666 said:


> I know this discussion has been done before however for me it's not about the using of the sponge it's the fact that they're advising not to use a wash mitt as it will scratch your paint..........despite the chenille wash mitt winning the PVD testing as the most safest method think it was in issue 10 :thumb:


I've only had marring from lambswool and noddle mitts, MF mitts and sponges have been great. I just wish Chemical Guys would bring back the Schmitt.


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## big dave 666

macca666 said:


> I know this discussion has been done before however for me it's not about the using of the sponge it's the fact that they're advising not to use a wash mitt as it will scratch your paint..........despite the chenille wash mitt winning the PVD testing as the most safest method think it was in issue 10 :thumb:


Yep remember this well.


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## Kenan

I kindly got sent a tester bottle of the graphene shield from Muska, but have only just had chance to test it out.

Used the bonnet of my wife's Zafira as a test bed as it faces the front door for inspection. Washed, decontaminated and then one stage with the DA. I split the panel into 4 sections and used UPOL panel wipe for 3 of the sections before product application and the 4th I used Obsession Wax Lustrate pre-wax cleanser.

I wanted to use two different pre application products under the Zymol I have experience with. So top left in the picture I used Car-Chem Lockdown sealant, bottom left was Sonax BSD. On the right two sections I applied the Zymol, generously.

Didn't have any issues with application, was a bit windy so dried quicker than it would normally so one of the two Zymol sections took a little more effort to remove but less than Lockdown which dried very quick. The two Zymol sections feel very slick, as does the Lockdown section unlike the BSD which feels grabby in comparison. I'd also say the Zymol and Lockdown have darkened and added to the look of the panel.

So far I can't find anything wrong with the Zymol, but I will say that Lockdown seems very similar but is pried at £11 for 500ml (always deals so can be had much cheaper).

I resisted the urge to apply water to see the water behaviour, will give them time to fully cure. I will update in a few days and will also use CarPro Reset to see if it vanishes.

Photos added, one before and one after with thebonnet split


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## roscopervis

OOOOOOOooooooooohhhhhh this might kick off again!

Good, I look forward to the results.


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## atbalfour

@Kenan have you got any milder shampoos than Reset, even though it's pH neutral it definitely packs a punch and can degrade QDs and other products with low chemical resistance and I suspect you will have at least one of those on the panel :lol:

Trying to get ahead of the inevitable finger pointing :thumb:


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## JU5T1N

Your not gonna use the zymol recommended application method of washing with a sponge then applying half a bottle of hd cleanse to prep the panel? :lol: .


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## Mini One Cabrio

Wow, blast from the past. I thought this thread was well and truly forgotten. Still have an almost full bottle of this but unless this test proves otherwise I shall be leaving it at the back of the shelf. Looking forward to both the water behaviour and longevity....


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## Kenan

I feel bad as haven't had time to use it sooner, so sorry I'm late to the party.

I could use a different shampoo, have several to choose from but the urge to recreate the Apex review is strong "well I guess that ends the test" 

I did try my best to find a yellow sponge, but the only one I have has scouring pad the other side. I did apply the Zymon generously, it was running down the grill at one point . .

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk


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## Kenan

So I got chance to put some water on the products. Bonnet was a little dusty but here is a video of the water behaviour before washing, sorry it's upside down . .






I then washed with my Adams washpad and Wax Planet Lava shampoo and below is the video after






In the words of Brian from Apex "Well that seems to be the end of this test"

I didn't honestly think it would go the same way as it did for Brian, mabye I should of used a yellow sponge? Who knows but you can see the other products still working, lockdown being the winner for me.


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## Sheep

Kenan said:


> So I got chance to put some water on the products. Bonnet was a little dusty but here is a video of the water behaviour before washing, sorry it's upside down . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then washed with my Adams washpad and Wax Planet Lava shampoo and below is the video after
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the words of Brian from Apex "Well that seems to be the end of this test"
> 
> I didn't honestly think it would go the same way as it did for Brian, mabye I should of used a yellow sponge? Who knows but you can see the other products still working, lockdown being the winner for me.


Waxmode (Loach on here) said that the product seems to come back after resting for a bit. Can you check that in a couple days?


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## DIESEL DAVE

Sheep said:


> Waxmode (Loach on here) said that the product seems to come back after resting for a bit.


A resurrection ?


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## Kenan

Sheep said:


> Waxmode (Loach on here) said that the product seems to come back after resting for a bit. Can you check that in a couple days?


Yeah I was looking to do this

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk


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## atbalfour

LOL worst detailing product of the decade as well as the biggest rip off.


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## Saladin

This has been the best hour or so I've spent reading something on here. Absolute wild thread lol. A product that was not on my radar but now I'm aware of it for all the wrong reasons!


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## JU5T1N

Saladin said:


> This has been the best hour or so I've spent reading something on here. Absolute wild thread lol. A product that was not on my radar but now I'm aware of it for all the wrong reasons!


Make sure you watch the application video in post #282 if you want a good laugh and bare in mind it took a high end brand 2 months to make.


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## Sheep

JU5T1N said:


> Make sure you watch the application video in post #282 if you want a good laugh and bare in mind it took a high end brand 2 months to make.


To be fair, they're not a production house. However, they should have been able to make something a bit more polished. I am kinda gobsmacked at how poorly this product seems to perform. It was looking to be a legit product for a while there.


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## Saladin

Haha yeah I saw that. My issue with that video, putting the actual product capabilities aside for a second, was that the content/instructions were a mess still. It cleared up absolutely nothing. For such a well established company they really dropped the ball here. The response should have been simple:

_We are aware that there have been issues with our new Graphene Shield product. Zymol is aware that our instructions fell short of the high standard we hold ourselves to. To correct this, here is our new and updated guide to applying the product: *insert link to video and clear written instructions*

We would like to apologise for any confusion. *insert some PR mumbo jumbo here*
_
(Obviously a more detailed version of the above)

What they failed to realise is it's THEIR job to fight any misunderstanding of their product. They looked super arrogant in this whole saga. Now they've got someone like me who is talking about it months later and no doubt will people pick up this thread for many more months to come


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## Sheep

Saladin said:


> Haha yeah I saw that. My issue with that video, putting the actual product capabilities aside for a second, was that the content/instructions were a mess still. It cleared up absolutely nothing. For such a well established company they really dropped the ball here. The response should have been simple:
> 
> _We are aware that there have been issues with our new Graphene Shield product. Zymol is aware that our instructions fell short of the high standard we hold ourselves to. To correct this, here is our new and updated guide to applying the product: *insert link to video and clear written instructions*
> 
> We would like to apologise for any confusion. *insert some PR mumbo jumbo here*
> _
> (Obviously a more detailed version of the above)
> 
> What they fail to realise is it's THEIR job to fight any misunderstanding of their product. They looked super arrogant in this whole saga.


At first I was sure it was just a bad batch, new product, new component, something went off. Boy was I wrong.


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## budgetplan1

Methinks naming it "Atomic Graphene Shield w real Atomic Graphene" was the first mistake. How do you live up to that?


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## Kenan

Sheep said:


> Waxmode (Loach on here) said that the product seems to come back after resting for a bit. Can you check that in a couple days?


Ok so have re-tested the water on the panel and the Zymol side is still flooding the panel. If I use a spray bottle I can get flat blobs rather than beads and looks how a dead LSP looks.

My car which I was washing at the time with the same mitt and products has crazy beading from a from Wax Planet Xodis Prime. I'll be stripping the bonnet and putting something else in the Zymols place, which I won't be using again.

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk


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## bigkahunaburger

This product reminds me of Quadra

https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=390913


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## Woodsmoke

Scary how bad a product it really is for the amount it costs... it doesn't even meet the abilities of a basic quick detailer which is a lot less fussy to apply lol


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