# Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta



## Trist (Jun 23, 2006)

Ok

I've brought 4 of these tyes 225/40/18 for my ST.

The guys over on the ST forum run them around 38-42 PSi. But I tried 38 all round and the car felt very nervous and felt as if it was floating. The rear would want to let go just like that. Also noticed the rears were wearing more on the inside than the outside at this psi.

I then dropped all 4 down to 33PSi and it seems to stabilise the car a lot. But it just feels very nervous. It's odd, theres loads of grip there, but if you have to do a sudden turn, not sharp just sudden the rear just tries to step out. Same when you brake really hard. The just doesnt seem to feel stable at all. I dropped the fronts down to 31 today and that was about the same as 33 up front, if anything it made the rear worse.

I've done about 300 miles on them so far.

Anyone on here experienced problems with these?

Any help I would greatly appreciate. I had these on the front of my VXR, and I never had any of this problems.


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## Modmedia (Jul 25, 2008)

Why do they run them so high? 

Are these special tyres or something? My Ibiza runs @ 30PSI


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## Dipesh (Oct 12, 2007)

These tyres are meant to take a while to scrub in so I've heard. Mrs car has then buri don't push her car so I can't say!


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## ipwn (Dec 1, 2009)

Trist said:


> Ok
> 
> I've done about 300 miles on them so far.


woahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

For VUS they're not even remotely scrubbed in yet. It took me at least 800 miles for the the car to stop wiggling about under harsh braking. These tyres take a fairly decent amount of time to scrub in real good.


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## Trist (Jun 23, 2006)

800miles, that much! blimey.

So you had the same odd feeling then? Car felt very nervous and kinda wobbly lol


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## ipwn (Dec 1, 2009)

Trist said:


> 800miles, that much! blimey.
> 
> So you had the same odd feeling then? Car felt very nervous and kinda wobbly lol


Didn't do any spirited driving for the first 1000 miles.

About 200 miles in I had to do a sharpish brake on the Mway and the car wiggled about and everything :O

First few hundred miles I just turned traction control off, was easier to drive with the semi grip on the rear. Traction control kept butting in and cutting power.


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## Trist (Jun 23, 2006)

WHat pressures you running on them?

I've ben told to try 32 at back and 34 up front.


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## ipwn (Dec 1, 2009)

Trist said:


> WHat pressures you running on them?
> 
> I've ben told to try 32 at back and 34 up front.


Bmw say 2.9 on front and 3.1 rear


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## John757 (Jun 11, 2009)

Trist said:


> WHat pressures you running on them?
> 
> I've ben told to try 32 at back and 34 up front.


Run the tyres on whatever the car manufacturer states in the manual or the inside of your door? Or close to that at least.


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Trist, I think your running them way too soft. When they first came out the Vredestein website said to run them at 45psi. I run them at 39. They have a hard side wall, so they kind of need something to support them.


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## kenny wilson (Oct 28, 2008)

This has, as you know, been done to death over on STOC. 
With absolutely no disrespect to our mutual members over here, i don't know what advice you seek? What more to add.
For my thruppence, and that's all it's worth, my Vreds are at 40psi. I feel happy putting 320 through them and they have not misbehaved, or made me feel worried.


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## Trist (Jun 23, 2006)

Blazebro said:


> Trist, I think your running them way too soft. When they first came out the Vredestein website said to run them at 45psi. I run them at 39. They have a hard side wall, so they kind of need something to support them.


I tried 38 and it was terrible, I only had 50miles on them though, so might be too early!



kenny wilson said:


> This has, as you know, been done to death over on STOC.
> With absolutely no disrespect to our mutual members over here, i don't know what advice you seek? What more to add.
> For my thruppence, and that's all it's worth, my Vreds are at 40psi. I feel happy putting 320 through them and they have not misbehaved, or made me feel worried.


Yeah I know, I've read most of the posts over on STOC, so I decided to ask over here to see what other guys who have other cars run them at.

Youre both running them around 39-40psi and their normal. Hmm odd that, the best I've had them at was at 33 all round. I might go back up and see what happens.

You know there was a fuss about fake Goodyers GSD3s and they were rubbish. Has there been known cases for the Verds?


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## kenny wilson (Oct 28, 2008)

Fair do's mate, but without being over esoteric, or dare we say 'anal' If the uber ST heads over at STOC don't fill in yer form in regard to that tyre, on that version, of that car, given all the column inches posted on it; then I think you're kinda bust mate:thumb:

Don't like it.........don't do it

They're workin for me:thumb:



And a big portion of :driver:


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Not that I know of. They're a very distinctive tyre, and don't really equate to a large market share. It's going to be quite costly for somone to fake them as they have to set up tooling etc.

It's also very easy to check. Have a look around the outside of the side wall for a small set of numbers, essentially the serial number. Each set of numbers should be different.

I think it's more a case that they are very different to anything you've had previously. If after running these for a couple of years you changed to another brand, you'll prbably say the same thing as each tyre has a 'feel' to it. I think it's just an ajustment from what your used to.


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## Trist (Jun 23, 2006)

I think I'll try 39 or 40, seeing that you two have great success with the tyres at these pressure :thumb:

You both running same up front and back?


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Trist said:


> I think I'll try 39 or 40, seeing that you two have great success with the tyres at these pressure :thumb:
> 
> You both running same up front and back?


Yep, mine were a bit dodgy for the 500 miles or so, but once bedded in they hold the road like glue. The only thing you'll accomplish by running them soft is increased wear.


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## Trist (Jun 23, 2006)

Nice one :thumb:

Did you get that weird floaty, spongy feeling when they were new and hadnt bedded in?


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Trist said:


> Nice one :thumb:
> 
> Did you get that weird floaty, spongy feeling when they were new and hadnt bedded in?


Can't remember as my st was lowered at the time. The only thing that happend to mine is they stiffend up already quite stiff suspension.

If your on stock springs that might be the cause.


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## Trist (Jun 23, 2006)

lol yeah they do firm up the ride at high psi. One thing I did notice though is there was more grip on them at higher psi, if you ignored the odd floaty feeling and pushed them they'd just stick to your line, at 33 they do scrabble for grip a little.

Oh before I forget, why at 38psi the inside half of my rear Tyres was wearing more than the outside half. You know those little bits of rubber that's on new tyres, after doing 50miles at 38psi the bits was gone on the inside half but still like new on the outside half.


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Your trackings shot, simple.


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## hibberd (Jul 5, 2006)

I have them on my E60 and have had no problems, they are superb, do get your tracking checked and adjusted on a full 4 wheel laser system as this is crutial on any tyre especially if you want to be spirited when you drive. if your car is floaty and your tyres are stiff I would check the dampers as these are ment to stop the floaty bit not the tyres. have you contacted Vredestein for their recommended pressures and also check they have been mounted correctly of the alloys.


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## Trist (Jun 23, 2006)

They can adjust the rear on the ST?

I might do a full laser alignment, if the traking and alignment is out that won't help the feel and handling!


Hibberd: you mean if the inner side has been mounted correctly?


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Yep, rears can be adjusted.


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

Why are people running them so high? I have looked on the vred site and it tells you to read the owners manual. Mine are running as per the BMW specs which is 2.3 bar front and 2.9bar rear I can't see why a Focus would need tyres as highly inflated as a 530i?.


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## col85 (Jan 28, 2009)

i have this on my S, i noticed the wiggle under harsh braking but thought it was due to damp road or something

i wasnt aware that people were running them higher than the car manual states


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

gt5500 said:


> Why are people running them so high? I have looked on the vred site and it tells you to read the owners manual. Mine are running as per the BMW specs which is 2.3 bar front and 2.9bar rear I can't see why a Focus would need tyres as highly inflated as a 530i?.


As said, originally the Vred website advised the tyres to be inflated to 45psi. The original goodyears I had advised 38psi all round, so 39 seemed a good compromise.


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

Blazebro said:


> As said, originally the Vred website advised the tyres to be inflated to 45psi. The original goodyears I had advised 38psi all round, so 39 seemed a good compromise.


Do they not anymore then? I have not seen anything on the site that suggests this, all it said with reagrds to pressure was to go with the manufacturers figure.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Blazebro said:


> Trist, I think your running them way too soft. When they first came out the Vredestein website said to run them at 45psi. I run them at 39. They have a hard side wall, so they kind of need something to support them.


Don't know where you think you saw mention of such a recommendation, but no tyre manufacturer that I can think of has every suggested to run tyres well beyond what is generally in use by the majority of models produced - low-mid 30's.
Maybe you're thinking of the max pressure, which 45psi makes perfect sense. Most brands are 45-50psi max, with maybe the odd 60psi model, unless we're talking about SUV's, if they're not the same as regular cars' typical pressures.

From Vred's website:
_TYRE TIPS
1. TYRE PRESSURE
The tyre pressure must always correspond with the pressure recommended by the car manufacturer. This should be checked at least every 14 days, and then again before long journeys. And make sure you don't forget the spare tyre. Always check your tyres when they are cold as pressures rise as tyres warm-up in use. Under inflating causes tyre overheating and this can result in irreparable internal damage. What's more, it may even lead ultimately to tyre deterioration.

2. DAMAGE
Tyre damage can also be caused by heavy impacts such as driving against curbs or over potholes in the road. Prolonged use on bad surfaces is also to be avoided: Tyres can be very unforgiving!

3. REGULAR CHECKS
Check your tyres regularly for damage, abrasions, cuts, cracks, blisters, etc. Foreign objects which have penetrated the tyres can also lead to internal damage. In any of these cases, damage must be investigated by a tyre specialist as it can considerably shorten the life of your tyres.

4. OLD TYRES TELL A STORY
Never fit used tyres unless you are sure of their past history. Tyres age even if they have not been used Or have only been used occasionally. Cracks in the tread or in the sidewall rubber, sometimes accompanied by deformation of the carcass, are a sure sign of aging. Have your old tyres checked by a tyre specialist so that you can be certain they are still suitable for further use.

5. TAKE CARE OF YOUR SPARE TYRES
Whatever their condition, tyres older than six years fitted on tyres must be thoroughly checked. Spare tyres deserve extra attention: They are frequently old or aged. In such cases, always use them with caution and ensure they are replaced as soon as possible.

6. TREAD
The tread depth should be regularly checked; the less the tread-depth, the greater the risk of skidding. There are wear indicators in the tread which show how close the tyre is to its wear limit. These become visible at a tread depth of 1.6 mm. Drive extra carefully on wet roads.

7. PUNCTURED TYRES
If you get a puncture, it is imperative to stop as soon as possible and change the tyre. Besides the obvious safety considerations, continuing to drive on an under-inflated tyre can cause structural deterioration. Punctured tyres must always be removed from the wheel to check for secondary damage.

8. REPAIRS
If it is necessary and feasible to repair a tyre, it must be carried out by a tyre specialist as soon as possible to avoid any structural deterioration. All tyre repairs must be entrusted to a tyre specialist who will take full responsibility for the examination and the work carried out on the tyre._


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

PJS said:


> Don't know where you think you saw mention of such a recommendation, but no tyre manufacturer that I can think of has every suggested to run tyres well beyond what is generally in use by the majority of models produced - low-mid 30's.
> Maybe you're thinking of the max pressure, which 45psi makes perfect sense. Most brands are 45-50psi max, with maybe the odd 60psi model, unless we're talking about SUV's, if they're not the same as regular cars' typical pressures.
> 
> From Vred's website:
> ...


_
Which is exactly what I found as well, I really can't see why they would recommend you run them at over the recommended pressure, one of the things with Vred tyres is that the side walls are monumentally stiff so if anything would need less pressure IMO._


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## hibberd (Jul 5, 2006)

Trist said:


> They can adjust the rear on the ST?
> 
> I might do a full laser alignment, if the traking and alignment is out that won't help the feel and handling!
> 
> Hibberd: you mean if the inner side has been mounted correctly?


No that they are mounted for the correct rotational direction, there should be an indication on them to show the direction of rotation..


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

PJS said:


> Don't know where you think you saw mention of such a recommendation, but no tyre manufacturer that I can think of has every suggested to run tyres well beyond what is generally in use by the majority of models produced - low-mid 30's.
> [/i]


Here we go again  when they were first launched the Vred site said 45ps. I do have the ability to read, however I accept that over time things may change. Vred R&D may point to something else now.

The first tyres I had were goodyear excelence, they're recommended at 36 or 38psi, which isn't far off.

If Trist would like to search the STOC, there would be a number of old threads confirming this.


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## Trist (Jun 23, 2006)

I can confirm this. Its on Verds site.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Blazebro said:


> ....when they were first launched the Vred site said 45ps. I do have the ability to read, however I accept that over time things may change. Vred R&D may point to something else now.
> 
> The first tyres I had were goodyear excelence, they're recommended at 36 or 38psi, which isn't far off.


I can't account for what what you read on Vredestein's website when the tyres were first launched, but the Excellence from Goodyear are 2.6 (for an 18" 92W XL) front under partial load (driver (and passenger?) only), and 2.8 under full load - which equates to 38 and 40 psi respectively.

My Accord is 2.2/2.6, which is 32/38 psi (door card suggests 35 or 36, definitely not 38 when fully laden/towing)

I still maintain, 45 psi is far too high a normal pressure, and would place more stress on the suspension parts than the manufacturer designed for (for typical handling traits, longevity, etc) - so I can only presume their copywriter ****ed up by mentioning the max figure as some sort of recommendation.

All that said, I did run them (front only) at 38 psi, and the Toyo T1-R's (rear) at 40 psi, as part of an experiment to see if the age old "max less 10%" provided better fuel economy.
I found the handling was good in dry and wet conditions, but mediocre-fair on damp tarmac, and don't know if this is a general trait or a symptom of the higher pressure - the upshot of which was they lasted probably no more than 7-8K miles.
Switched to Falken FK452's (now at the rear) which are a slightly better tyre, with a reduced break-in time, and wear (at 33 psi). The T1-R's are probably the best tyre I've had on the front, and the wear on the rear, even at 40 psi was exceptionally good, with over 18K (maybe even 20K) miles before completely gone.

As much as a Vred's are nice to look at, tread pattern wise, I'll not be having them back on the car again, and will probably go T1-R all round, once the FK452's have expired.


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## John757 (Jun 11, 2009)

PJS said:


> As much as a Vred's are nice to look at, tread pattern wise, I'll not be having them back on the car again, and will probably go T1-R all round, once the FK452's have expired.


I've had T1-R's on all 4 corners on my current car and previous cars. I replaced with Uniroyal Rainsport 2's recently and there leaps and bounds better. Wet grip is amazing, just feels like your in the dry. Dry grip is also brilliant, can't fault them at all.


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## Ultimate (Feb 18, 2007)

i run mine at 38, and yes they were twitchy to begin with and towards the end of life.
My ST seems to be very fussy with tracking (with these tyres or even contis ), its the first car i have had that has been so sensitive to it, i know performance car also mentioned this on their long termer, might be worth getting checked

As as has been said it is a long debated subject, this is the line from vred

This is the answer from our Tyre Information Centre to your question: 

Our advice is to use the tyrepressure from the manufacturer for full-load and high speed. When you can not find the correct tyrepressure, you can always use the advice from Vredestein.

The tyre pressure advice from Vredestein is always a litlle higher than set out by the car manufacturer. The reason behind this is we focus more on handling and safety characteristics than on comfort. Also the life span of the tyres will be longer and the fuel consumption and impact on the environment will be less.
Vredestein calculates the tyrepressure using the tyrepressure from the car manufacturer for full load and high speed.

Ford Focus St 2,5 
225/40 R18 Y XL
41PSI front 35 PSI rear

We hope this answers your question. In case you have more questions, please don't hesitate to mail us, we are always prepared to answer them. 

Kind regards,
Joost Spits
VREDESTEIN BANDEN B.V.


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

Trist said:


> I can confirm this. Its on Verds site.


Where? it may have been but it is not anymore, and I read on a VXR forum that when people emailed asking for confirmation no reply was ever sent, through my limited research it seemed the ST community was the only one that actually went with the advice and seems to still think it correct even now. I am not trying to get into an argument but just because its was on the vred site once and the ST forums still stand by it that does not mean it must be correct, there must be a reason why Vred removed that piece of advice.


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

gt5500 said:


> Where? it may have been but it is not anymore, and I read on a VXR forum that when people emailed asking for confirmation no reply was ever sent, through my limited research it seemed the ST community was the only one that actually went with the advice and seems to still think it correct even now. I am not trying to get into an argument but just because its was on the vred site once and the ST forums still stand by it that does not mean it must be correct, there must be a reason why Vred removed that piece of advice.


Research and development. Things change, perhaps even the construction of the tyre has.

It was on there more than once, it was on there for quite some time. I can't find it either now, but I don't think it was on Vredestein.com, it was Vredestein.eu or something. If you believe the info on Vredestein.com then they don't make a tyre suitable for the ST.


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

Blazebro said:


> Research and development. Things change, perhaps even the construction of the tyre has.
> 
> It was on there more than once, it was on there for quite some time. I can't find it either now, but I don't think it was on Vredestein.com, it was Vredestein.eu or something. If you believe the info on Vredestein.com then they don't make a tyre suitable for the ST.


Ah ok then fair enough surely though if the tyres have changed and the advice changed at the same time it would be necessary to find out which tyres were the new ones to make sure people aren't over inflating them.


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

gt5500 said:


> Ah ok then fair enough surely though if the tyres have changed and the advice changed at the same time it would be necessary to find out which tyres were the new ones to make sure people aren't over inflating them.


I've no idea what's changed if anything. If you want proof that the advice of high tyre pressures ever existed, google will help. Here's one of a number of forums stating the same:

http://www.vxronline.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=77154

Clicking the link in the first post on that forum will show you that aparently Vredestein don't make a tyre to fit the Astra. All I can say is that right now Vredestein have removed their inflation advice, as tou will see on the link above.


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## Ezrhino (Apr 3, 2010)

*Vreds need high PSI*

I just bought a new car that has Vreds on them. I email the company and this is the message;

This is the answer from our Tyre Information Centre to your question:

The correct tyre pressure for your Mitsubishi is 3,0 bar (43 PSI) in the front and 3,0 bar (43 PSI) in the back

We hope this answers your question. In case you have more questions, please don't hesitate to mail us, we are always prepared to answer them.

Kind regards,
Vredestein Banden B.V.

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Verzonden: donderdag, april 2010 23:00
Aan: Tyre Information Centre
Onderwerp: Technisch contact formulier

Technisch contact formulier

Persoonlijke gegevens/Personal data 
Naam/Name:
Email/E-mail address:
Adres/Address:
Postcode/Postal code:
Plaats/City:
Land/Country: USA
Opmerkingen/Technical questions and/or remarks: What is the correct tyre pressure for my vehicle?

Auto gegevens/[Auto gegevens] 
Merk/Car make: Mitsubishi 
Serie/[Autoserie]: 2.4 liter 4 cyl. 
Model/Model: Eclipse 
Uitvoering/Engine: Convertible 
Productiejaar/Year of production: 7/2009

Huidige band gegevens/Present tyre data 
Merk/Brand name: Ultrac Sessanta 
Type/Type: 245/35 
Maat/Tyre size: 19

Velg gegevens/[Velg gegevens] 
Type/Type: Lichtmetaal 
Maat/Size: 19"

Rijstijleigenschappen/Driving style benefits 
Seizoen/Season: Zomer 
Aantrekkelijk uiterlijk/Attractive appearance: Belangrijk/Important 
Laag, breed profiel/Flat, wide profile: Belangrijk/Important 
Lange levensduur/Long tread life: Zeer belangrijk/Very important 
Handling op nat wegdek/Wet handling: Belangrijk/Important 
Aquaplaning/Resistance to aquaplaning: Niet belangrijk/Not important 
Comfort en laag geluidsniveau/Comfort and silent running: Zeer belangrijk/Very important 
Stabiliteit bij hoge snelheden/High speed stability: Belangrijk/Important 
Alert accelereren, sturen, remmen/Responsive cornering, breaking and acceleration: Zeer belangrijk/Very important 
Tractie op sneeuw en ijs/Snow and ice traction: Niet belangrijk/Not important

I've gone up to 38 PSI and the ride is much smoother than it was when I had them at 34 PSI.


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## Trist (Jun 23, 2006)

Thanks for that useful info 

Mine is now 35psi front and 30 back, and it sticks like s**t to the road. Might put them back up and see how they fare


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