# Opti-seal problem - not happy with the results



## sarkise (Oct 15, 2012)

Hey,
I just detailed my 09 hilux. I prepared the paint for about 7 hours using megs ultimate compound, and than Menz 85RE5 for the finish.
After polishing with the 85RE5, I washed the car and saw a CRAZY beading over the car. It was the best beading Iv'e ever saw, don't know why was that without any LSP.
Anyway, after that I dried the car and gave it a nice coat of the Opti-seal.
I gave it 2.5 hours to cure and than I gave one more coat.
Today, three days later, a rain started to come down.
The car optiseal was making a beading that doesn't seems alright. It's not way better than a regular car after years without waxing.
But okay, leave the beading. The water stays on the car. When I spill water from a bottle on the bonnet, the water seems to stay on the car. Only a few of it slips from it. Means almost no sheeting at all. From videos on youtube and from comments, it doesn't really needs to be like that. Seems that something really went wrong. Does any one know what could be the problem ?
Check this for example, I would be happy if I had a sheeting like the optiseal of this guy:




or this:




HELP !


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

Did you use anything to remove the polishing oils before the Opti-seal was applied


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## sarkise (Oct 15, 2012)

Only a regular wash, not something special. I also didn't find anyone on the internet that said something about special wash after polish and before LSP before I detailed.
Just an update: I just tried to spray a bit of the OS on one part of the car and after I reapplicated it to the surface, the sheeting is just like the videos. What, the optiseal durabillity is three days ? What's going on here?


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

No mate, it lasts months very easily. 

You're problem is that it's just not bonding properly to the paint, because you didn't remove the polishing oils before applying!!!

This is the same with all sealants, they can be quite fussy. A quick wipedown with 20% IPA mix / Eraser and you'll be sorted to apply your sealants. :thumb:


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## davidcraggs (Aug 1, 2007)

Optiseal is great in my experience - only problem is this time of year it's too cold to apply it as a residue remains/ hazing (also difficult to get the car completely dry at this time of year which is vital when applying Optiseal).

I applied Reload for the first time yesterday on top of Optiseal for the reasons above.


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## great gonzo (Nov 4, 2010)

Reload is a real winner as you can even apply it to a wet car.


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## dooka (Aug 1, 2006)

Not really sure what you are stating or asking. Optiseal is a Sealant, sealants tend to sheet water not bead. You seem to have decent sheeting action in the pics, which tells me it is doing what it is meant to do..

Water will always bead beautifully on clean machined paint ..


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## steve from wath (Dec 12, 2008)

you say you gave it a nice coat,then another 2.5 hrs later

did you apply the first coat,really heavy,then in this cold weather it hasnt had time to cure and bond,then when you applied another coat you could have removed the un cured first coat....if you get what im saying

as with all products it needs a good clean base which you have BUT as said it needs to be clean as well,so eraser or/ and ipa,panel wipe to remove all polishing oils and or residue ,then apply a thin layer of optiseal

remember ...less is more

it needs a certain temp to cure (and to be honest,i dont know what that is)

also can you not post video of your own paint as it is now,give a better idea of whats gone wrong etc


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

I think it's as Steve from Wath says, the second coat probably didn't have
enough time to harden off before the dew point set in. Low temps will extend
the time for OOS to plate out. There are probably enough solvents in OOS for
it to find the coating it wants / needs to bond to. Avoiding the dew point for as
long as possible is the mantra when applying QDs or LSPs at this time of year...

Regards,
Steve


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## sarkise (Oct 15, 2012)

dooka said:


> Not really sure what you are stating or asking. Optiseal is a Sealant, sealants tend to sheet water not bead. You seem to have decent sheeting action in the pics, which tells me it is doing what it is meant to do..
> 
> Water will always bead beautifully on clean machined paint ..


If I wasn't clear enough, the videos are not mine. I wish I had the sheeting in the videos.

For all the others:
I didn't mention that I live in Israel, so our winter's temp is 20C.
When I coated the car with the OS, the temp was close to 30C, so the temp isn't the problem.
Maybe I didn't gave it enough cure time. Do you guys recommend me to try on the next wash to give it another shot and 12 hours of cure time ?
I don't think that the polishing oils is the problem, as I washed the car after the finish with a nice car shampoo. It's sounds a bit "too much" to clean it again with another materials after the polish.

One more thing: when I said a "nice coat", I didn't meant to half a bottle. I know the fact that a little goes a long way.
Thank you !


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## cypukas (Aug 24, 2012)

where can i buy an IPA from??


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

sarkise said:


> When I coated the car with the OS, the temp was close to 30C, so the temp isn't the problem.


Actually, that could be the very problem. If the ambient temperature is that
high, what chances the paint surface is very much higher? Applying OOS is a
process where its solvents prepare the way for the polymers to fully bond.

High temperatures could well impede that process, because they have 
evaporated before their work is done. Generally speaking, the high end of the 
spectrum is about 80degF / 26degC, so your ambient temperature is already 
pushing it. 


cypukas said:


> where can i buy an IPA from??


What worries me is that the use of IPA is often presented on DW as being the
"professional's" cure all, when actually it isn't, so beware! I would not begin to
advocate using it until you have fully researched what it can, and cannot, do 
and the risks that its use poses.

The first problem with it being that it's difficult to work out the dilution rates 
because it rarely, if ever, gets sold at full strength. Its adverse effects can, 
and are not limited to, severe softening of the clearcoat and its ability to 
resist marring. There are alternatives that can be just as effective and safer.

Observing advice from an acknowledged expert on the subject would probably
be a good start for your research.

Regards,
Steve


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## cypukas (Aug 24, 2012)

thanks Steve


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## sarkise (Oct 15, 2012)

Well, after reapplicating the opti-coat, giving it to cure for 12 hours and using less material, seems that it's working. The sheeting is like magic.
After 16 hours I applicated a pure carnauba wax on top of the OS and it now has a very very nice beading too.
For summary:


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## Ric (Feb 4, 2007)

lol..


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## sarkise (Oct 15, 2012)

Whats funny?


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

Car looks great 

Were you applying the Opti-seal in the shade or direct sunlight


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## sarkise (Oct 15, 2012)

lowejackson said:


> Car looks great
> 
> Were you applying the Opti-seal in the shade or direct sunlight


Inside a garage.
Thank you.


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## Ric (Feb 4, 2007)

sarkise said:


> Whats funny?


I was just lol'ing at the fact 4-5 people have told you that the surface needs to be super clean and IPA'd yet you ignore it and then put a wax over the coating..


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## sarkise (Oct 15, 2012)

carbonangel said:


> I was just lol'ing at the fact 4-5 people have told you that the surface needs to be super clean and IPA'd yet you ignore it and then put a wax over the coating..


Maybe i didnt understand because english is a very far language from hebrew, but i understood that the surface needs to be clean before coating the optiseal. Thats the reality, whats wrong ? I just added a coat of wax over the optiseal many hours after the recommened cure time like most of the people do and for now it works just fine.


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## mollov (Jan 28, 2012)

There's clean, and there's "LSP clean"... there's a lot of difference... when you wash your car and it looks clean, then you think it's clean... but there might be a lot of "other type contaminants" such as oils, brake dust, etc... those type of contaminants can not be removed with only washing...

When you polished your car there might be some polishing oils that are left and that can not be removed with a regular wash (those oils prevent the Opti-Seal to bond properly and work as it should)... you can remove them maybe with some dish washing liquid in heavy form, but that's not recommended... better is Car Pro Eraser.

Now you need to use "Eraser" or IPA to remove all that wax and sealant (Opti-Seal) to have the paint super clean... or you can wait few months for the products to wear off by themselves... right now if you add some more wax/sealant it might work OK, but will wear off quickly and won't give you proper impressionof the product and it efectiveness.


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

sarkise said:


> Inside a garage.
> 
> Thank you.


Nearly 30 degrees in a garage, wow, that is just too hot


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## sarkise (Oct 15, 2012)

mollov said:


> There's clean, and there's "LSP clean"... there's a lot of difference... when you wash your car and it looks clean, then you think it's clean... but there might be a lot of "other type contaminants" such as oils, brake dust, etc... those type of contaminants can not be removed with only washing...
> 
> When you polished your car there might be some polishing oils that are left and that can not be removed with a regular wash (those oils prevent the Opti-Seal to bond properly and work as it should)... you can remove them maybe with some dish washing liquid in heavy form, but that's not recommended... better is Car Pro Eraser.
> 
> Now you need to use "Eraser" or IPA to remove all that wax and sealant (Opti-Seal) to have the paint super clean... or you can wait few months for the products to wear off by themselves... right now if you add some more wax/sealant it might work OK, but will wear off quickly and won't give you proper impressionof the product and it efectiveness.


But you reapeating on the answer that I canceled last post.
Before reapplicating the opti-seal I washed the car again with a shampoo and gave the opti-seal a cure time of 16 hours. Only after that I applicated a wax, like many does.
It works fine, I don't understand what you guys talking about. Many people gives a coat of wax over a sealant. Nothing wrong with it. I didn't coated with wax before the sealant.


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## mollov (Jan 28, 2012)

I responded to what you said that the OS doesn't work as it should the first time you applied it... about the cleaning process, etc...

When applying LSP it's a must to use IPA or Eraser-type cleaning product so you can be sure, that there's nothing sticking to the paint, that isn't removed with washing and will compromise the LSP.


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## sarkise (Oct 15, 2012)

Okay, sorry for the mistake.
Thank you.


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

mollov said:


> When applying LSP it's a must to use IPA or Eraser-type cleaning product so you can be sure,


Absolute nonsense! That's nothing but pure hype with no foundation in fact.
The _only_ time that IPA is fairly necessary, but not vital, is if you machine
polish with oily potions. The _only_ thing IPA will certainly remove are the oils. 
It rarely, if ever, removes waxes. Take care with this stuff and do your research
properly, before you consider using it. Don't believe me? Then, have a look at 
the link I've provided in a previous post...

Regards,
Steve


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Lowiepete said:


> Absolute nonsense! That's nothing but pure hype with no foundation in fact.
> The _only_ time that IPA is fairly necessary, but not vital, is if you machine
> polish with oily potions. The _only_ thing IPA will certainly remove are the oils.
> It rarely, if ever, removes waxes. Take care with this stuff and do your research
> ...


Dead right Steve.
I use thinners based panel wipes now as IPA does not really remove all the oils or may not even remove wax. As I am applying ceramic sealants I need to know that paint is real clean, just be carefull with thinners though.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

According to Optimim tech support Opti Seal flashes off and cures in less than an hour.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

lowejackson said:


> Nearly 30 degrees in a garage, wow, that is just too hot


Way hotter than that here in both Australia, and USA. 

I wish it was 30*c in my garage. :lol:


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## mollov (Jan 28, 2012)

Lowiepete said:


> Absolute nonsense! That's nothing but pure hype with no foundation in fact.
> The _only_ time that IPA is fairly necessary, but not vital, is if you machine
> polish with oily potions. The _only_ thing IPA will certainly remove are the oils.
> It rarely, if ever, removes waxes. Take care with this stuff and do your research
> ...


Let me do some correction on my post. I do not use IPA, but Eraser... and surely will use Eraser every time I want to lay new protection (not to top a current layers/products) to the paint or if I want to be 101% sure there won't be any old wax/sealant there - then I'll polish, but will use Eraser after that.

But the are lot of people that use IPA all the time...



Mirror Finish Details said:


> According to Optimim tech support Opti Seal flashes off and cures in less than an hour.


I had the chance to ask a lot about the OS (through the EU master distributor) and Optimum says that if you try to add another layer in the first one hour you'll just mix it with the current "not cured" layer and there won't be a second layer, but only one... Optimum suggests 2-4 hours (depending on the temps) for full cure before another layer gets its way on the paint...

I think that's for the "old" OS, but the new OS might be better on the cure part...


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