# Bilt Hamber Test no 3. Auto-balm



## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

LSP's are ten to a dozen, and most of them offer pretty much the same finish (despite what the marketing might lead you to believe.) With good prep, you'll get a good finish with Megs NXT, Colly, and Vics Concours, and the comparisons really only come with the durability. But.. what about the market who don't want to prep a panel first? I mean, not everyone has a machine polisher, and not everyone wants to do prep. To me, this is where Auto-balm comes into play. Lots of fillers, and a nice glossy finish as well as being a very economical product to use.

I decided to do a rather odd comparison on the focus. One side of the bonnet was done with Auto-Balm, and the other with Zoomol Vintage. That's a wax costing £1,800 a tub vs a wax costing £14.95.

A quick sheeting video. Can you tell which side is which?



Beading of the left:









And of the right:









And a random, beading inside of beading shot:









In terms of application, I ditched the stokinette, as I was having major problems with it, and instead went for an MF applicator sprayed with water to dampen (in much the same way I'd season a pad before MP'ing.) Done this way, application and removal was a breeze. Certainly this will be a product I'll be using where the customer doesn't want correction but does require something with fillers in it.


----------



## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

I'd say the Vintage is on the right of the video


----------



## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Yes, that is correct. There is of course a noticable difference, but my point is that it's not massive, and the BH does stack up quite well considering the price difference.


----------



## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Completly agree

I washed the BM again tonight with BH auto foam and the six waxes on the bonnet dont look any different, although the sheeting is starting to show some clear differneces  i'll post a vid again in a few weeks

I'd bet the Vintage and Auto Balm would give each other a good run for each's money in durability stakes.


----------



## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

beading isnt as tight and sheeting isnt as fast with AB as per a nuba wax, but I like the glossy look it leaves, and it certainly deepens the finish even on surfaces that arent polished to perfection as you point out :thumb:

3/3 so far then


----------



## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

I must say, I get loads of samples through of all sorts of products, and this year Zaino and Bilt Hamber have really really impressed me far above and beyond anything else I have had a try of.


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

There's a clear sheeting difference - similar indeed to the difference I am seeing on my dad's car where Zaino and NXT happen to be lined up side by side, the Autobalm seems to sheet like NXT, the Vintage like Zaino... Its a definite difference in my eyes, but the Autobalm still sheets the water notably well.

Be interested to see a repeat comparison three months on  "Lower end" Zoomol (as you call it) doesn't seem to be able to last this course, be interesting to see if Vintage and Autobalm can.


----------



## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

INdeed dave. I've got 8 more panels left on the car


----------



## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

this weekend I will see the Rolls that had AB on it in early Jan, and while it hasnt had a huge number of washes since, it has had a lot of use in all weathers. I'll give it a rinse and see what happens to beading & sheeting 4 months in


----------



## Guest (May 16, 2008)

B-H Balm dosnt bead like a "normal" wax so is quite easy to tell difference.

However, its my preferred "lasting wax" with collinite close behind and then the usual suspects (dodo, P21, Swissvac etc)


----------



## Bilt-Hamber Lab (Apr 11, 2008)

I've got to be honest about this, when I formulated Autobalm the last things on my “wish list” of performance criteria were beading or sheeting – why?

We manufacture anti-corrosion coatings so test a lot of products under development here in ASTM B117 salt-spray trials, this is standard test of coating performance, it’s used for testing a coating’s ability to prevent, inter alia, corrosion (it’s used also for testing coatings on other substrates as well e.g. wood) but steel’s our thing.

Applied to a substrate such as steel it’s really easy to see deterioration of the coating’s defence by visual examination – the onset of rust. Our salt-spray cabinet had some spare room in it on one occasion, so (don’t know why) I quickly polished and waxed some panels with various makes of car waxes and polishes and stuck them in – I was amazed to find that in some cases corrosion occurred in less than 5 minutes. Bare in mind some cavity waxes we make do 2000 + hrs. The polished panels were still beading but rusting non-the-less. Interesting I thought. Wonder if we can do better? We had never made this type of product before so I set about it from what we know about anti-corrosion products. We did however look at all the natural waxes too, and believe me I wish I could’ve got waxes like carnauba to work – it’s miles cheaper that some of the materials in Autobalm. 

It took ages to get our product working, our early formulations were poor in the cabinet, but once started it was a good challenge and I, personally, spent thousands of hours on it, it was about the trickiest thing ever to get working so I’m please people like it. Although the best bit, the protection of tiny stone chip sites and paint flaws in really unseen.

I’ve been told I’ve under priced it too – I think it true, the development cost alone I wiped off and the materials that go into the reaction to make it, of which there’s 18 cost more as I’ve said than if we made a natural wax, oil solvent system. 

Maybe I should’ve concentrated on beading and sheeting though. BUT… you never know what’s in the lab late at night.


----------



## Affection to Detail (Jul 6, 2006)

Bilt-Hamber Lab said:


> I've got to be honest about this, when I formulated Autobalm the last things on my "wish list" of performance criteria were beading or sheeting - why?
> 
> We manufacture anti-corrosion coatings so test a lot of products under development here in ASTM B117 salt-spray trials, this is standard test of coating performance, it's used for testing a coating's ability to prevent, inter alia, corrosion (it's used also for testing coatings on other substrates as well e.g. wood) but steel's our thing.
> 
> ...


I think the sheeting was picked up on as its the noticable difference, not always what people are after. A client said to me that his car had no protection on as it wasn't beading after he had applied AB. Once I'd found out it tends to sheet rather than bead and let him know, he didn't care, just so long as there was something on the car.


----------



## Bilt-Hamber Lab (Apr 11, 2008)

:thumb:Thanks A to D


----------



## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

Wonderdetail said:


> LSP's are ten to a dozen, and most of them offer pretty much the same finish (despite what the marketing might lead you to believe.) With good prep, you'll get a good finish with Megs NXT, Colly, and Vics Concours, and the comparisons really only come with the durability.


Bit of a sweepiing statement to say they all look the same. In pictures possibly, but in the flesh there is no question in my mind there is a difference.


----------



## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

Affection to Detail said:


> I think the sheeting was picked up on as its the noticable difference, not always what people are after. A client said to me that his car had no protection on as it wasn't beading after he had applied AB. Once I'd found out it tends to sheet rather than bead and let him know, he didn't care, just so long as there was something on the car.


I must admit, I thought that after applying Zaino Clear Seal which acts like the Bilt Hamber in the video. Initially I was a bit dissapointed until I realised it's just doing a different job of shifting the water.

Sheeting is definately good at the moment with the rain being full of that fine sand!


----------



## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

CleanYourCar said:


> Bit of a sweepiing statement to say they all look the same. In pictures possibly, but in the flesh there is no question in my mind there is a difference.


Tim, of course, you're right. What I was getting at was that generally LSP's don't add a massive amount to the finish. It's the prep that counts. The counter point I was making was that some people don't want to prep which is where a product with fillers in it comes into play.


----------



## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Bilt-Hamber Lab said:


> I've got to be honest about this, when I formulated Autobalm the last things on my "wish list" of performance criteria were beading or sheeting - why?
> 
> We manufacture anti-corrosion coatings so test a lot of products under development here in ASTM B117 salt-spray trials, this is standard test of coating performance, it's used for testing a coating's ability to prevent, inter alia, corrosion (it's used also for testing coatings on other substrates as well e.g. wood) but steel's our thing.
> 
> ...


Al (or Pete?) I agree completely, but what I was demonstrating is what the general population of DW judge a wax by. Just go back through all the threads in this section, and you'll see. Alas, we humblings don't have the benefit of microscopes or salt spray cabinets, so the only thing that we can judge a wax on is how much protection is 'appears' to be giving. Sheeting and beading are 'generally' an indication of such, but I am aware this is not a scientific test.

The point I was trying to make was that, in a test of beading and sheeting, the difference between your £15 wax (which you're right is underpriced!) compared to an £1,800 wax was not huge by any means, *in terms of what we deem to be a good protecting wax, e.g, good repelling of water.*

Perhaps I should leave the reviews to Dave KG and the like. Seemingly I'm not that good at them! lol. Perhaps I should have just said it's a cracking wax and extremely good value (which it is and it is.) 
:thumb:


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Wonderdetail said:


> Tim, of course, you're right. What I was getting at was that generally LSP's don't add a massive amount to the finish. It's the prep that counts. The counter point I was making was that some people don't want to prep which is where a product with fillers in it comes into play.


I see where you are coming from here, and in these cases it is always the AIOs that have the most to offer - we dont all own machines, but AIOs can prep a paint durface very well, a pure wax just wont be able to achieve the same or last as long on a poorly prepped surface.

Perhaps a comparison in final finish between Auto Balm and say HD-Cleanse would be interesting as they are both claimed to prep the surface though in fairness the HD would need some wax over the top, so its perhaps not fair to compare both on their own there for anything other than looks...

The only LSP system that I can point to to say "yeah, its got a head above the rest" is Zaino, and also Swissvax Best of Show... The others, and I've used many, just seem to be much of a muchness on a well prepped surface, with the exception perhaps of Victoria Concours but what makes it stand out for me is its ability to compete and equal Glasur, Supernatural etc while costing far less.


----------



## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Wonderdetail said:


> Perhaps I should leave the reviews to Dave KG and the like. Seemingly I'm not that good at them! lol. Perhaps I should have just said it's a cracking wax and extremely good value (which it is and it is.)
> :thumb:


Disagree Paul

Commenting on what you see can never be a crime.

I'd prefer a car to not bead at all as i would get so many water spots, however the sight of proper beading still makes me smile.

I thought it was an interesting read last night and with out opening a can of worms really what most of DW should be about.


----------



## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Epoch - thanks. Sometimes this place can be like Mrs WD. e.g, doesn't understand that what it sounds like I said, is not what I meant.


----------



## bilt-hamber kid (Dec 4, 2007)

Paul,

We agree with you and contrary to what you might think, I think everyone appreciates the clarity, thought and care that you put into your reviews as well. Some might dissagree with your opinion, but thats the beauty of peers exchanging ideas and I'll read this developing thread with interest.

And yes, it is underpriced. :lol:


----------



## fraz1975 (Jul 29, 2007)

Paul, I have read your reviews of the 3 BH products and I for one am very grateful to you for taking the time to review them and post them up and your straight forward honest write ups. In the end of the day the more opinions we can get on products the more educated we can be when spending our hard earned :thumb:

Oh and I will be buying some AW, Clay and AB as a result of the reviews - it is always great to have products to do different jobs for different cars used and cared for in different ways, if we didnt we would all just need 1 LSP in the armoury, and my missing product up to now has been one with fillers - so Auto Balm it is :thumb:


----------



## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

bilt-hamber kid said:


> Paul,
> 
> We agree with you and contrary to what you might think, I think everyone appreciates the clarity, thought and care that you put into your reviews as well. Some might dissagree with your opinion, but thats the beauty of peers exchanging ideas and I'll read this developing thread with interest.
> 
> And yes, it is underpriced. :lol:


cool :thumb:

And you should charge £500 for it, and wack it in a fancy box made of plants.


----------



## fraz1975 (Jul 29, 2007)

In light of my decision to buy the 3 products just grabbed them on the today only price of £30 including P&P from BH as seen on this thread


----------



## bilt-hamber kid (Dec 4, 2007)

Wonderdetail said:


> cool :thumb:
> 
> And you should charge £500 for it, and wack it in a fancy box made of plants.


Pete is working on a new generation Auto-balm enriched with the earwax and toe fungus of sackclothed Peruvian virgins, calmy and silently formulating Auto-balm on the leafy slopes of The Andes in ancient copper Aztec mixing bowls. That one _is _going to be £4,000 a tub, but worth every penny mind. :driver:


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Wonderdetail said:


> Perhaps I should leave the reviews to Dave KG and the like. Seemingly I'm not that good at them! lol. Perhaps I should have just said it's a cracking wax and extremely good value (which it is and it is.)
> :thumb:


Nah, you dont want to do that... then you'll only have my opinions


----------



## -ROM- (Feb 23, 2007)

I agree i have found these reviews useful and will definetly be getting some bilt hamber clay, and shampoo.

If i hadn't read this review i probably wouldn't have even considered them. I know PJS has been singing their praises but (and this isn't meant to be offensive to the guy) his opinions don't carry that much weight, where as paul's, (being a full time pro detailer and having many years of experience with different products) does, so has convinced me to give them a go!


----------



## Bilt-Hamber Lab (Apr 11, 2008)

Wonderdetail said:


> cool :thumb:
> 
> And you should charge £500 for it, and wack it in a fancy box made of plants.


Oh no! Wonderdetail I mis-judged the wording of my "background to autobalm" I was not, in the least aiming, my comments at you. I always appreciate feedback and the time it takes to give it and support it with vids and photos. I thought the review was very valid indeed and enjoyed reading it. I was just giving the background to how the product came into effect, I really hadn't done any testing on beading or sheeting. Sorry to offend.

Pete


----------



## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

No offence taken chap.  Now send me some auto foam!


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

rmorgan84 said:


> I agree i have found these reviews useful and will definetly be getting some bilt hamber clay, and shampoo.
> 
> If i hadn't read this review i probably wouldn't have even considered them. I know PJS has been singing their praises but (and this isn't meant to be offensive to the guy) his opinions don't carry that much weight, where as paul's, (being a full time pro detailer and having many years of experience with different products) does, so has convinced me to give them a go!


Should I be offended?
I suppose I should since the inference is my eyes don't know what they're seeing.
I'll grant you I've not used as many products prior to find BH, unlike some, but I take issue with the supposition that that makes the results I've found with using them any less valid.
I guess I'm just lucky that I haven't had to nor feel the need to buy everything on the market in order to carry some clout on here!
Those who have taken my suggestions and recommendations at face value, have been pleasantly surprised, and rarely had anything negative to say.
I'd understand if I was the only one being positive, amongst a backdrop of negativity, but since that's not the case, I fail to see why only after Paul has "reviewed" them, you'd suddenly sit up and take more notice.

Still, I'm glad Paul's write-ups have made you see the potential from giving the products a try - but it's not like Epoch, Bigpikle, and a few others haven't already voiced their positive opinions, especially with the Auto Wash after their samples were received and tested at the start of the New Year.

I hope they don't disappoint, and you too will see what I've been saying all along. If not, then c'est la vie.


----------



## Jaygo (Apr 7, 2008)

Thanks for the review of this and other BH products.

Your appraisals are devoid of bias and partiality which is much appreciated.

I've found your reviews far more persuasive than the totally predictable recommendations which are regularly offered up.

BH products are *now* something I will seriously consider.


----------



## Bilt-Hamber Lab (Apr 11, 2008)

:thumb:I've got to say PJS was never known by BHL until after he made a puchase, a purchase based on his own investigations. He's made quite a few calls to us to with some well thought out technical questions too, which we've been happy to answer. We take a long time getting our products working well, and each product from every company has it's first end user whose had the belief that advertising is not just a spin trying to make the same old same sound different.


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Cheers Pete, but don't sweat it - there's some here who are very wary and sceptical, and in a way, I don't blame them.
Protest too much, and they'll still not believe there's no tie-in between us.

Maybe I've been too vocal, or sound like a broken record - either way, I don't mind since it's obviously struck a chord with a number who've put that to one side, and their comments are reinforcing or even replacing mine.
It's all good, and I'm just pleased *I* stumbled upon yourselves, and am very contented to use the products at the expense of experimenting with the numerous others from which to choose.
I do intend to, but it's not a matter of urgency, just yet.
Maybe now the bandwagon has enough momentum without my pushing it - all very metaphorical you understand - and the penny is finally dropping.
At the end of the day, adulation is all well and good, but not the reason I piped up since joining. If something is good, I've always believed it deserves to be acknowledged as such, since the general trend is to only speak up when complaining about something that fails to deliver what was promised or expected from it. 
With barely a positive word spoken about the products, which conflicted with my findings - well, it is a no-brainer as to why I'm as proactive as I have been.

Anyway, keep up the good work and we look forward to seeing some more fruits of your overactive mind, sooner rather than later.

BTW, have you and Al ever thought of taking your show on the road? I can see quite a number of sell out shows if you did.
I can just see it now - "For one night only...........at The Dog & Duck". :lol:


----------



## -ROM- (Feb 23, 2007)

PJS said:


> Should I be offended?
> I suppose I should since the inference is my eyes don't know what they're seeing.
> I'll grant you I've not used as many products prior to find BH, unlike some, but I take issue with the supposition that that makes the results I've found with using them any less valid.
> I guess I'm just lucky that I haven't had to nor feel the need to buy everything on the market in order to carry some clout on here!
> ...


All i was getting at is simply, you are a relatively new detailer and can't remember seeing a full write up of a detail from you, the likes of paul WD, daveKG, L200 steve etc etc, have posted countless write ups with all manner of products, therefore proven their detailing ability, product knowledge, etc, etc time and time again. Therefore their opinions on a product carry more weight with me.

nothing more, nothing less


----------



## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

wow - missed a load of discussion on this today - that will teach me to do some work for a change :lol:

glad this is picking up momentum, just hope it doesnt become victim of another wave of hype like so many products recently, and currently . I've been really pleased with the results I've got in 5 months of use of this on several cars, old and new, as well as every one of the rest of the BH products I've used


----------



## Jaygo (Apr 7, 2008)

@PJS:

Personally not being of a religious disposition and not wishing to offend you, or anyone else, I hope you don’t take up any form of Evangelism.

If you do, I give it 2 or 3 years before we get hordes swimming across the Irish Sea, at which stage I'll migrate to a sunnier, if less Godly part of the world.

At least then no-one should accuse you of being a "wolf in sheep’s clothing"


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Eye thank ewe, I think!
It's okay, I'm aeth...athie....aithes.....a non-believer too.


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

PJS said:


> Eye thank ewe, I think!
> It's okay, I'm aeth...athie....aithes.....a non-believer too.


And you get on at my spelling!! :lol:


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Shut it you!


----------



## Robbieben (Feb 19, 2006)

A very good unbiased writeup, there is definately a noticable difference in the two sides of the bonnet as regards to sheeting/beading. Durability and appearance are what WE on DW generally use to asses products, perhaps we are wrong in some circumstances to judge a product in this way, especially those of us that offer our services to others, perhaps we ought to be guiding people towards a product like the BH that not only offers acceptable looks but offers increased protection for a persons pride and joy.


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Robbieben said:


> A very good unbiased writeup, there is definately a noticable difference in the two sides of the bonnet as regards to sheeting/beading. Durability and appearance are what WE on DW generally use to asses products, perhaps we are wrong in some circumstances to judge a product in this way, especially those of us that offer our services to others, perhaps we ought to be guiding people towards a product like the BH that not only offers acceptable looks but offers increased protection for a persons pride and joy.


For a daily driven car and the primary LSP used, definitely - with the added bonus of selling a jar to them as well.
If they're paying for the "luxury wax upgrade", then perhaps not.
Similarly if not doing a full correction or where some RiDS can't safely be removed, then as a visual reducer - yes.


----------



## bassologist (Apr 24, 2008)

Great write up wonderdetail .. personaly i preffer the way the Auto Balm beads , it doesnt seem to bead as much as other wax's ive tried, which in my case is good, i live in dusty london , so all those beads collect dust which tends to make the car pretty dirty , pretty quick, and with the added benefit of corrosion protection, makes it a good choice to use on my 12 year old sports saloon, use it to seal my split rims and all the polished rocker covers, plenum etc under the bonnet, thumbs up to BH for a quality universal product

I think imight put in a nice order for some more before the price goes up :lol::lol:


----------



## Russ and his BM (Jan 1, 2008)

Oh come on PJS, you've only posted nearly 2000 times, come back to us when you've got some time in!:lol:

I have used a lot of BH products, namely the wash, clay, balm and degreaser, and they are all fantastic. I would estimate that what drives someone's passion behind supporting a small UK company is the sheer delight of finding reasonably priced (will everyone stop calling it underpriced - otherwise the prices will go up!!) products that work as well as or better than advertised; a rare treat indeed these days.

But what would I know, I'm new to this!

Just my 2p. A fine review in my book, BTW.

Cheers, Russ


----------

