# Stepping up from a hot hatch - M3, RS4 etc



## MidlandsCarCare

Time for a change again, budget this time is £25k.

Now I've always had 'hot hatches' - easy, cheap performance and practicality, makes a load of sense to me.

I could get another (RS, Meg 250, S3 perhaps) but they depreciate quite heavily at first, which made me think about similar priced cars, which have already taken their hit, and so will cost more to run, but will lose less money in terms of depreciation.

I've been looking at E92 M3's and 07 plate RS4's specifically, but am open to suggestion. I guess the risk with either of these is that if something were to go wrong, clutch for example, it's a £50k sized bill...

Could I get a decent warranty to cover me for the worst bits? I've looked at brakes and tyres, along with service costs, and all seem affordable... it's just the 'unknowns' which concern me.

If not, what hot hatch shall I get? 

Thanks,
Russ.


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## OvlovMike

Monaro, if you don't care too much about fuel bills. Far more fun than all of the above, primarily because you don't look like a *****. Should be able to pick up a VXR 500 (or a VXR8 if you prefer that look or want a newer car!) if you've got patience to find one.

Audi's customer service is ****, and the whole German reliability thing is ********, and BMW are good but I still don't know as I could face owning one - especially with the running costs.


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## OvlovMike

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3123780.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3101063.htm


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## Leemack

Got to admit, I had a very nice BMW X5 in black sitting on 20's and the gearbox went which cost me £5000 then the electrics went - £1000 then the CV and so much more

Monaro is a good shout :thumb: burbleishus


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## OvlovMike

That and aside from being a £35k Vauxhall, rather than a £50k BMW/Audi, it's also built around a drivetrain that's as popular in the US as Roast Beef is over here, so you can get a) replacement parts cheap and b) upgraded parts quickly.


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## MidlandsCarCare

I didn't know about the VXR500 tbh.

Are they predicted to hold their value well?

I do prefer the styling of a VXR8...


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## OvlovMike

Prefer the styling of a VXR8? I know to buy you a Burberry cap for Christmas at least!

VXR500 are holding their values to levels only seen on a Vauxhall by one other model - and that's a little bit special too...


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## Sean_r27

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3121466.htm


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## Ryan_W

BMW 135i.... All the cool kids own one 

Will annihilate an M3 or RS4 with a £500 map (mine's standard and I've put a few to shame)...


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## MidlandsCarCare

The Lotus Carlton?

Hey, the earlier VXR8 is far less chav than the new model!


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## MidlandsCarCare

Ryan_W said:


> BMW 135i.... All the cool kids own one
> 
> Will annihilate an M3 or RS4 with a £500 map (mine's standard and I've put a few to shame)...


I've looked at this. 300hp twin turbo. What do they remap to?


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## MidlandsCarCare

Btw I have a 320hp Golf Edition 30 at the moment, so needs to feel like a 'step up' from that


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## Ben_ZS

RS4 would be my suggestion, or a nice Evo 8 MR and do some nice mods with some of the change.

Could throw a remapped Audi A5 3.0 TDI Quattro into the mix?

A pic of my mom's, looks lush with these wheels....


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## stargazer

I'm hedging bets that the E92 M3 has has a large £££££ trailer behind it


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## OvlovMike

Remap to big repair bills.

And the IS-F is alright, but if you're doing that you should get the M3, as they both cost monumental amounts of money if they let go badly but the M3's just better...


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## stargazer

RussZS said:


> Btw I have a 320hp Golf Edition 30 at the moment, so needs to feel like a 'step up' from that


Is 320 BHP not enough? blimey I'd be happy with half of that.


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## Ryan_W

With just a map, 360-370bhp. With FMIC, exhaust and downpipes, 400bhp+...

I love mine to bits, but am looking at stepping up to the 1M...


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## DampDog

If you could make do with 'two seats' there is some nice machinery around for that money..

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif.../page/1/radius/1500/postcode/st71st?logcode=p

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif.../radius/1500/page/1/postcode/st71st?logcode=p

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif.../page/1/radius/1500/postcode/st71st?logcode=p

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif.../postcode/st71st/page/1/radius/1500?logcode=p

Good hunting...


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## OvlovMike

stargazer said:


> Is 320 BHP not enough?


He tends to change his car more than he changes his pants.


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## OvlovMike

DampDog said:


> If you could make do with 'two seats' there is some nice machinery around for that money..
> 
> http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif.../page/1/radius/1500/postcode/st71st?logcode=p
> 
> http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif.../radius/1500/page/1/postcode/st71st?logcode=p
> 
> http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif.../page/1/radius/1500/postcode/st71st?logcode=p


IIRC he car shares. :thumb:


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## PrestigeChris

Z4 m gets my vote, those things are so much fun!


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## NickP

RussZS said:


> I've looked at this. 300hp twin turbo. What do they remap to?


http://evolveautomotive.com/1-series-ecu-remap_778/135i-n54_859/

I can personally vouch for Evolve's work


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## PrestigeChris

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z4M-3...mobiles_UK&hash=item19c49bd5f9#ht_1627wt_1139


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## DampDog

OvlovMike said:


> IIRC he car shares. :thumb:


Doh...!!!!!

Buy em bus tickets..


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## stargazer

OvlovMike said:


> He tends to change his car more than he changes his pants.


Fair enough.


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## Ryan_W

On a side note, M3's are great cars but the fuel bills are rather steep (says the man with a 8mpg daily driver lol). You'll be looking at around 15-20mpg with the M3 regardless of driving like granny or not. The 135i will do 25-35mpg dependant on driving style.


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## OvlovMike

Ryan_W said:


> The 135i will do 25-35mpg dependant on driving style.


Russ drives like a shoe except when he's got people with him going to work, so anything he gets will be likely to live in single figures


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## PrestigeChris




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## OvlovMike

PrestigeChris said:


>





PrestigeChris said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z4M-3...mobiles_UK&hash=item19c49bd5f9#ht_1627wt_1139





PrestigeChris said:


> Z4 m gets my vote, those things are so much fun!


As per my above post, Russ car shares. I know he may not be in the future but knowing Russ he'll change his car before then anyway!


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## MidlandsCarCare

135i with a remap and E46 M3 are appealing the most at the moment.

Mike, what happened to your old user id?


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## Ben_ZS

It's winter and snow that put me off BMWs, I've never owned so don't fully know how bad winters are driving BMWs.

The father in laws 5 series didn't move for 2 weeks last time we had snow.


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## famoussas

E92 M3 is best in it's class, and the early ones are stupidly good value.

Maintenance is as much as any other car at that price point or less, and modern BMW's do live up to the reliability hype.


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## gsd2000

speaking from experience if something goes wrong on a monaro then it could be a long wait for a replacement part


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## 335dAND110XS

E46 M3 will hardly be any quicker than your Golf BUT the RWD handling is more fun.

An E92 is in a different league - very quick motor but it needs serious stoking.

A 135i is a good bet and if you like modding, over 400bhp is more than possible. I know of two 335is pushing out mid 400s bhp and they are indecently quick. 135i also gets very good six pot calliper brakes (335i and 335d just get single pots) and a sweet chassis. Not keen on the look but that's just an opinion.

Only fly in the ointment is HPFP issues - the 35i unit seems rather prone to failure from this and other items; however it appears it's the US version that's the worst.

A mapped 335d is a laugh too (even unmapped, a mate used to outdraw E46 M3s quite often at Santa Pod) but clearly doesn't sound as good. it's a much lazier way of going quickly but it'll pull hard even over 120mph and get sub 5s to 60 (mid to late 5s for the standard one). Of course I'm biased but the engine is also a lot more reliable than the 35i unit.

As for snow - yes they are a struggle; we leave ours at home and use the Landy. But stick some Winter tyres on and you'll be out witting most normal cars in cold conditions.


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## Ryan_W

HPFP (high pressure fuel pumps) as well as coilpacks are now all replaced under recall. Just had mine done for free (as it should be).

Get the BMWP(performance) kit fitted and the 135i's look great... Not that I biased...


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## McClane

Dude, would it be cheaper for you to rent cars by the week? :lol:

Don't fancy 40k for an Audi RS6 V10? Featured in the "2nd hand section" of this months evo. :thumb:

V10 M5's looking a lot cheaper than new too.


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## wish wash

Id buy a bmw 335 and tune it. But for me theres only one car im gettin once ive sold the rs and thats a r35 gtr. My friends is just unbelievable. POWERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR lol


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## 335dAND110XS

Ryan - yep that does lift the overall look a fair bit. :thumb:

Shame they're such a squeeze in the back (we have two kids and a dog!).


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## 335dAND110XS

McClane - nice cars but that's a BIG step up. Monster servicing bills and they were both £70k++ cars so cost a fortune to run.

I'd love an E61 M5 but they do much less than 200 miles on a tank (mates get under 15mpg - even 10mpg when pushed) too! 

RS6 is very powerful but like most big RS Audis, show it some fun twisties and the 2 tonnes starts to show. They grip well but aren't nimble at all.


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## Cadillacman

gsd2000 said:


> speaking from experience if something goes wrong on a monaro then it could be a long wait for a replacement part


That's not my experience... I've owned American cars since 1988 and I find parts are easily available.
If ordering from the USA, usually takes about 3 to 4 working days delivered to your door.
If you go via a dealer in this country though, it could be a different story and they will charge you silly money.


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## divine3779

Beemer!!  who would spend that on a vauxhall??


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## 335dAND110XS

The VXR8 originates from Oz not the US...


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## divine3779

Ben_ZS said:


> It's winter and snow that put me off BMWs, I've never owned so don't fully know how bad winters are driving BMWs.
> 
> The father in laws 5 series didn't move for 2 weeks last time we had snow.


To be fair though mate, not much moved! It was a freak winter... That said a mate of mine on the M3 forum had a set of winters on his M3 & was absolutely fine...


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## Cadillacman

335dAND110XS said:


> The VXR8 originates from Oz not the US...


The engines and drive train are American


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## 335dAND110XS

It's the lamest reason to knock BMWs. Rear wheel drive is "right wheel drive" IMO for performance cars. 

I'm not all that worried about cooking model Focus' and Astras/etc claiming to be superior in the snow. It's just because BM do some "mainstream" models yet are all RWD (except for the SUVs). Try a serious performance car (almost always RWD or sometimes AWD) and you'll have far more issues in snow/ice than in any BMW.

In ice, even our Defender (about as good a snow/ice car a you can get) needs extreme caution. I have yet to see some FWD car pass me in it during icey conditions with it's mythical Arctic abilities.


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## RisingPower

Ryan_W said:


> On a side note, M3's are great cars but the fuel bills are rather steep (says the man with a 8mpg daily driver lol). You'll be looking at around 15-20mpg with the M3 regardless of driving like granny or not. The 135i will do 25-35mpg dependant on driving style.


Got ~24mpg out of mine, though, that was an e46.


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## divine3779

RisingPower said:


> Rubbish. Got ~24mpg out of mine.


You must of done alot of motor way driving.. Mine does 19. :thumb:


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## 335dAND110XS

Are you guys talking E46 or E9*? The V8 E9* seems to be very thirsty. The E46 wasn't bad on juice.


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## RisingPower

divine3779 said:


> You must of done alot of motor way driving.. Mine does 19. :thumb:


It was mixed driving tbh, short stretch of double carriageway a road, single carriageway nsl and a small section of 30mph.

Heck, if you weren't constantly on the loud pedal you could see 30's very easily, just like in the zed. There really is very little difference in mpg between them, except the M3 was quicker.

I'm still struggling to get at what russ is after though, even after all this time.

M3 isn't exactly what i'd call nimble.

Mine was an e46, i'd expect the v8 e92 to be heavier on juice.


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## RisingPower

If, however, he does get one, i'd say imola red with some black/anthracite standard 19" m3 wheels. There's one around here, with a subtle drop, looks gorgeous.

Didn't like gunmetal in the end.


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## RisingPower

divine3779 said:


> To be fair though mate, not much moved! It was a freak winter... That said a mate of mine on the M3 forum had a set of winters on his M3 & was absolutely fine...


I found the M3 far easier in winter than the 350z :lol:


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## Ryan_W

Sorry, I was referring to e9x M3's with the S65 v8 lump.

If buying a x35i model, make sure you go for the 'proper' twin turbo engine (N54) not the latter twin scroll (N55) lump 

Ryan


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## RisingPower

Mmmm skyline r34:

http://www.pistonheads.com/SALES/2606242.htm


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## RisingPower

Ryan_W said:


> Sorry, I was referring to e9x M3's with the S65 v8 lump.
> 
> If buying a x35i model, make sure you go for the 'proper' twin turbo engine (N54) not the latter twin scroll (N55) lump
> 
> Ryan


Ahh yes, ok :thumb:

But it's the big things going wrong which would concern me more than the mpg anyways. Dunno what bmw warranty prices are like these days tbh.


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## gsd2000

Cadillacman said:


> That's not my experience... I've owned American cars since 1988 and I find parts are easily available.
> If ordering from the USA, usually takes about 3 to 4 working days delivered to your door.
> If you go via a dealer in this country though, it could be a different story and they will charge you silly money.


took me 4 months to find a T56 gearbox, as the monaro ones are different to others and at the time no one would repair it.

I think a few places do it now.

The main breakers in the states had none, and a rebuilt one that i could find was 3k in states.

Small parts are fairly cheap, and major engine parts are easy to find over there.


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## Matt.

335i would be my choice.


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## centenary

Ben_ZS said:


> It's winter and snow that put me off BMWs, I've never owned so don't fully know how bad winters are driving BMWs.
> 
> The father in laws 5 series didn't move for 2 weeks last time we had snow.


Yeah, like they dont get snow in Bavaria!

On another note, why the need for such excessive horse power!?


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## 335dAND110XS

What's excessive?!


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## bigmc

Going from a 320bhp golf I wouldn't be looking at a bmw tbh, I'd be looking at R34 V-spec or something along those lines.


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## centenary

335dAND110XS said:


> What's excessive?!


Anything over 250bhp on a road car imo.


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## bigmc

250 aint much in a road car anymore tbh.


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## centenary

bigmc said:


> 250 aint much in a road car anymore tbh.


That's my point.


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## MidlandsCarCare

I do intend to do a few trackdays too, but I think you're right, anything more than 400 is a waste on UK roads!

The problem with the Golf isn't the power, it's the handling and poor power delivery as its FWD. I'm used to great handling cars, and whilst the Golf is competent, it's a downgrade from my R27 Clio and R26 Megane. I could blow cash on suspension for the Golf, but will I ever be happy?

A Megane 250 would probably 'do me', but I'm just playing with the idea of getting something 'better' which would depreciate less quickly.


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## Ryan_W

135i is soooo up your street mate!

I get a kick out of it every time I take it out...


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## MidlandsCarCare

Ryan_W said:


> 135i is soooo up your street mate!
> 
> I get a kick out of it every time I take it out...


I think you're right tbh mate, it makes the most sense out of everything I've looked at.

That 1M would constantly bother me... but they are out of my price range at the mo! It's nice to have the 'top model'


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## MidlandsCarCare

I like the look of this

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3106068.htm


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## Hair Bear

Russ - I'm at the same crossroads mate!!

Same £25k budget - problem is with that sort of money there's so much out there :wall:

Looked at big BM's (petrol and derv) but need the handling to be up there though (you know where I'm coming from )

So I'm down to 4....

4 doors

Megane RS 250
Evo VIIII or X

2 Doors

Z4M
Cayman

Cayman is tops at the mo' - doing some serious scouting for a goodun.

135i has set the cat amongst them now though :wall:


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## bigmc

What about something like this??


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## MidlandsCarCare

Hair Bear said:


> Russ - I'm at the same crossroads mate!!
> 
> Same £25k budget - problem is with that sort of money there's so much out there :wall:
> 
> Looked at big BM's (petrol and derv) but need the handling to be up there though (you know where I'm coming from )
> 
> So I'm down to 4....
> 
> 4 doors
> 
> Megane RS 250
> Evo VIIII or X
> 
> 2 Doors
> 
> Z4M
> Cayman
> 
> Cayman is tops at the mo' - doing some serious scouting for a goodun.
> 
> 135i has set the cat amongst them now though :wall:


You need to watch this mate...


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## MidlandsCarCare

bigmc said:


> What about something like this??


Lovely, but it would scare me to own.

I think I want something newish and within warranty period still, just for peace of mind.

135i fits the bill perfectly tbh/


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## Hair Bear

bigmc said:


> What about something like this??


I'd be taking a look at that meself if it weren't for the interior. Kills it! :doublesho


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## MidlandsCarCare

Hair Bear said:


> I'd be taking a look at that meself if it weren't for the interior. Kills it! :doublesho


Lol!

Looks like somebody has had an accident in there!! I didn't see that!


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## Ryan_W

Go for this one mate, much nicer!

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3125063.htm

Stay away from all that jap/chav clutter


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## amiller

oh great, now I'm looking at 135s too! :lol:


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## MidlandsCarCare

Ryan_W said:


> Go for this one mate, much nicer!
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3125063.htm
> 
> Stay away from all that jap/chav clutter


Is it 'okay' on fuel?

My Golf will happily do 30MPG


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## MidlandsCarCare

amiller said:


> oh great, now I'm looking at 135s too! :lol:


Is your S3 remapped?

I do wonder if I'd have bought an S3, if I'd have been happy, as it has the AWD and bigger brakes etc, but some say the handling is a bit wooden, like many Audi's?


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## Ryan_W

I drive like a saint 50% of the time and a c*ck 50% of the time. 

I average 280-300 miles to a tank (£65 of V-Power). I've had 380 miles out a tank on a eco drive, but sub 200 miles when the sun's out and I'm feeling frisky


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## 335dAND110XS

I bought my 335d from Sytner, Leicester. Excellent dealer IMO.


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## Ryan_W

RussZS said:


> Is your S3 remapped?
> 
> I do wonder if I'd have bought an S3, if I'd have been happy, as it has the AWD and bigger brakes etc, but some say the handling is a bit wooden, like many Audi's?


My 2002 S3 (1.8T BAM) is a great little car. 270bhp and AWD will be fun when the snow comes!


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## MidlandsCarCare

Which is the best BMW/1 Series forum please Ryan?


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## Hair Bear

RussZS said:


> You need to watch this mate...
> 
> DOGFIGHT PORSCHE CAYMAN v BMW 135i COUPE - YouTube


Not quite apples with apples though mate 

It's the Cayman S I'm shoppin' for


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## MidlandsCarCare

Hair Bear said:


> Not quite apples with apples though mate
> 
> It's the Cayman S I'm shoppin' for


You said Cayman 

Remap... sorted 

That Megane really did spoil me, such a great all round car, I miss it!


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## Ryan_W

Hmmm, I don't really go on them, but BabyBMW.net is probably the best UK site.

1addicts is probably the best overall though...

HTH

Ryan


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## Hair Bear

RussZS said:


> You said Cayman
> 
> Remap... sorted
> 
> That Megane really did spoil me, such a great all round car, I miss it!


LOL I thought you hated the thing?!! :lol:


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## ant_s

Lol you don't keep 'em long Russ lol. Was meant to text/pm you the other day asking about you and your ED30, asking whether you'd "settled" into it yet - obviously not lol.

The 1 series is nice, and does sound a good move, and I don't know that much about them so couldn't comment, but it looks very "grown up" and maybe it's just my thinking that the fun won't be there with it.

Do you use your car for work? Need for decent-ish MPG type of thing? Does it need to be newish?

My opinions on this would be to either get something like a S3, imo the best hot-hatch VAG. (that 100% my opinion) or a RS250.

If it could be older i'd be looking at something like on older, but can't think of anything at the min like what lol.

Or how about a 172/182 track/weekend/fun car, and keeping the ED30. What the 30 worth? Surely the extra money you'll be spending on the "upgrade" could get you a very good fun car.


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## -Kev-

how many threads have you started asking about new cars Russ? :lol:
thought you loved the ED30?..


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## MidlandsCarCare

Hair Bear said:


> LOL I thought you hated the thing?!! :lol:


I did at the time, but I didn't realise how good it was at the time! Just a great balance between power and handling, decent spec too.

Maybe another R26 is the answer, performance bargain tbh, and I wanted one with Lux pack, which I never had!


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## MidlandsCarCare

ant_s said:


> Lol you don't keep 'em long Russ lol. Was meant to text/pm you the other day asking about you and your ED30, asking whether you'd "settled" into it yet - obviously not lol.
> 
> The 1 series is nice, and does sound a good move, and I don't know that much about them so couldn't comment, but it looks very "grown up" and maybe it's just my thinking that the fun won't be there with it.
> 
> Do you use your car for work? Need for decent-ish MPG type of thing? Does it need to be newish?
> 
> My opinions on this would be to either get something like a S3, imo the best hot-hatch VAG. (that 100% my opinion) or a RS250.
> 
> If it could be older i'd be looking at something like on older, but can't think of anything at the min like what lol.
> 
> Or how about a 172/182 track/weekend/fun car, and keeping the ED30. What the 30 worth? Surely the extra money you'll be spending on the "upgrade" could get you a very good fun car.


Golf is worth £13k or so if I get it mint, at a push. BM is £20k+.

I could get a 'fun' car but I don't want the hassle of running two cars tbh. I have use of a second car if needs be, but don't want two in my name ideally.


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## Ben_ZS

RussZS said:


> I did at the time, but I didn't realise how good it was at the time! Just a great balance between power and handling, decent spec too.
> 
> Maybe another R26 is the answer, performance bargain tbh, and I wanted one with Lux pack, which I never had!


Would you not consider a R26 R?


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## Hair Bear

RussZS said:


> Maybe another R26 is the answer, performance bargain tbh, and I wanted one with Lux pack, which I never had!


D'ya know what mate, we could've been separated at birth - I also considered a late R26 with low miles! :thumb:

Awesome machines - must be the best bang for buck bargain out there at the mo'?


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## MidlandsCarCare

Hair Bear said:


> D'ya know what mate, we could've been separated at birth - I also considered a late R26 with low miles! :thumb:
> 
> Awesome machines - must be the best bang for buck bargain out there at the mo'?


Easily! I'm going to have a look for an 09 plate 

Always fancied a white one too!


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## Hair Bear

RussZS said:


> Easily! I'm going to have a look for an 09 plate
> 
> Always fancied a white one too!


You know it makes sense Rodders :thumb:


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## MidlandsCarCare

Ben_ZS said:


> Would you not consider a R26 R?


I need back seats mate - dogging :lol:


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## MidlandsCarCare

Hair Bear said:


> You know it makes sense Rodders :thumb:


Damn you! :thumb:

They are a STEAL tbh. I'd get a few £k back off the Golf too by the looks of it!


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## Ryan_W

:wave:

135i

PS: Whites the cool persons choice


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## Hair Bear

I can't make my mind up personally mate but they've been in the mix a few times...

Focus RS?


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## MidlandsCarCare

Ryan_W said:


> :wave:
> 
> 135i
> 
> PS: Whites the cool persons choice


I hate you a little bit :argie::argie: :lol:


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## MidlandsCarCare

Hair Bear said:


> I can't make my mind up personally mate but they've been in the mix a few times...
> 
> Focus RS?


Too heavy and common and I felt like I was on the car, not in it? Goes well, but something didn't make it feel special enough to spend £25k on tbh


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## Ben_ZS

RussZS said:


> I need back seats mate - dogging :lol:


Fair enough mate :lol:

Can't believe the direction of this thread!

You've got me looking at Meganes Russ!


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## MidlandsCarCare

Ben_ZS said:


> Fair enough mate :lol:
> 
> Can't believe the direction of this thread!
> 
> You've got me looking at Meganes Russ!


R26 is a performance bargain tbh, just make sure you've got WARRANTY :lol:

If I can find an 09 plate for £12k, I'd have it, otherwise its a 135 by the looks of it!


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## -Kev-

RussZS said:


> I hate you a little bit :argie::argie: :lol:


i love that Citroen C15 van too


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## Ryan_W

Full on track weapon!......... lol


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## Ben_ZS

Go for the R26 mate, you obviously miss yours :thumb:


What are real life running costs like on the R26 Russ?


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Ben_ZS said:


> Go for the R26 mate, you obviously miss yours :thumb:
> 
> What are real life running costs like on the R26 Russ?


I want a change tbh mate!

I used to get service bits cheap, so not too bad.

Fuel is 35 motorway and 25ish around town.

Tyres aren't cheap, I think it NEEDS PS3's which are £170 each, but soooo worth it.

The issue is stuff breaking  3 year time bomb!


----------



## Hair Bear

RussZS said:


> Tyres aren't cheap, I think it NEEDS PS3's which are £170 each, but soooo worth it.
> 
> The issue is stuff breaking  3 year time bomb!


I'm on Conti's at the moment and they're up there with Mich's mate - possibly even better in the wet. Price wise about the same.

Russ seemed to have a pig Ben, but don't let that put you off. I'm in my 4th year of ownership and apart from a couple of nothing recalls and to-be-expected wear and tear items my R26 has been epic.

Still taken out extended warranty just in case mind :lol:

Take one out for a blast. Nuff said :thumb:


----------



## ant_s

RussZS said:


> Golf is worth £13k or so if I get it mint, at a push. BM is £20k+.
> 
> I could get a 'fun' car but I don't want the hassle of running two cars tbh. I have use of a second car if needs be, but don't want two in my name ideally.


Yeah so you'll be looking at like an extra £7K, and that is one very decent 'fun' car 

Or just go for an Evo/Scooby!!! Now that just sounds like everything you need 100%


----------



## Ryan_W

I run 255/35/18 on the back: http://camskill.co.uk/m61b0s22p6931...T_SPORT_3_MICHELIN_PS3_-_255_35R18_94Y_XL_TL_

And 225/40/18 on the front: http://camskill.co.uk/m61b0s134p693...T_SPORT_3_MICHELIN_PS3_-_225_40R18_92W_XL_TL_

Not too bad if you ask me!

You need to test drive a 135i, it doesn't behave like a FI car at all. It's spectacularly linear, power from very low RPM.

Mine will pull from 20mph in 6th all the way through to the 155mph limiter...


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Yeah, those tyre prices don't put me off at all tbh!

How many miles are you getting out of the rears?


----------



## Ryan_W

Well I've only done 4k since I bought the car 18 months ago. It did has Conti SP3's on it, but I swapped all 4 for PS3's as soon as I got it. The rears are 2/3s worn but that is only due to my driving style.... I like skidding!


----------



## RisingPower

RussZS said:


> Too heavy and common and I felt like I was on the car, not in it? Goes well, but something didn't make it feel special enough to spend £25k on tbh


Urrr, don't the 135i and focus rs weigh practically the same?


----------



## Ryan_W

Focus RS doesn't really fall into the same bracket as the 135i... Yes it has an amazing engine, but it's a little boy racer'y in a lot of aspects.

However, it's completely dependant on what you want the car for. I'm just thinking about turning up to potential customers etc in a loud, in your face RS, may not bode well.

Now please don't class me as stuck up, every motor journalist has said the said thing...

I honestly think the Beemer covers most points when looking to buy a quick, reliable, rare-ish, sophisticated, good looking car... IMHO of course


----------



## RisingPower

Ryan_W said:


> Focus RS doesn't really fall into the same bracket as the 135i... Yes it has an amazing engine, but it's a little boy racer'y in a lot of aspects.
> 
> However, it's completely dependant on what you want the car for. I'm just thinking about turning up to potential customers etc in a loud, in your face RS, may not bode well.
> 
> Now please don't class me as stuck up, every motor journalist has said the said thing...
> 
> I honestly think the Beemer covers most points when looking to buy a quick, reliable, rare-ish, sophisticated, good looking car... IMHO of course


I don't think the 135i is either rare-ish or good looking personally. The front, the sides, the rear have very odd proportions.

The focus may be in your face, but it has far more character, stands out far more than the 135i does.

I guess it depends on your line of work, but you would probably choose to turn up in the 135i, but I'd say, drive the focus rs.

I also think if russ is worried about spending £170 on tyres, he'll have a shock with the 135i.


----------



## 335dAND110XS

Focus RS times are pretty poor for the power.

0-60 in a whisker under 6 and 100 in 14.2 for 300bhp?!! 

My soot chucking estate can beat that by some margin! A 335i or 135i would annihilate one in a straight line.

And they look like a Halfords special with those utterly ludicrous tailpipes.

High end BMWs are very well made, sound good, go very well and handle sublimely. Just a shame the low rent models four pot models (apart from the E30 M3) dilute the brand a bit ;-)

Get the 135i - sounds ideal for you.


----------



## RisingPower

335dAND110XS said:


> Focus RS times are pretty poor for the power.
> 
> 0-60 in a whisker under 6 and 100 in 14.2 for 300bhp?!!
> 
> My soot chucking estate can beat that! A 335i or 135i would annihilate one in a straight line.
> 
> And they look like a Halfords special with those utterly ludicrous tailpipes.
> 
> High end BMWs are very well made, sound good, go very well and handle sublimely. Just a shame the low rent models four pot models (apart from the E30 M3) dilute the brand a bit ;-)
> 
> Get the 135i - sounds ideal for you.


I'd rather have a slightly slower focus rs than a diesel, I couldn't care less how much quicker the diesel was.

It's not just about how quick a car is for driving enjoyment.

I honestly can't think of any bmw which sounds good apart from the M3 E46 CSL and the E60 M5.

German cars do a lot, very well, but I can't think of many that are particularly interesting, or appealing to the senses.


----------



## gex23

RisingPower said:


> I'd rather have a slightly slower focus rs than a diesel, I couldn't care less how much quicker the diesel was.
> 
> It's not just about how quick a car is for driving enjoyment.
> 
> I honestly can't think of any bmw which sounds good apart from the M3 E46 CSL and the E60 M5.
> 
> German cars do a lot, very well, but I can't think of many that are particularly interesting, or appealing to the senses.


Agreed:thumb:


----------



## RisingPower

Ryan_W said:


> Go for this one mate, much nicer!
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3125063.htm
> 
> Stay away from all that jap/chav clutter


Oh and, I hope you weren't referring to cars like the GTR, Skyline R34, NSX, Supra, mazda rx7 etc.


----------



## SteveTDCi

RisingPower said:


> I'd rather have a slightly slower focus rs than a diesel, I couldn't care less how much quicker the diesel was.
> 
> It's not just about how quick a car is for driving enjoyment.
> 
> I honestly can't think of any bmw which sounds good apart from the M3 E46 CSL and the E60 M5.
> 
> German cars do a lot, very well, but I can't think of many that are particularly interesting, or appealing to the senses.


For a Nissan owner he speaketh the truth


----------



## RisingPower

SteveTDCi said:


> For a Nissan owner he speaketh the truth


Oy you, fix or repair daily 

See, if russ wanted something more special for £25k and still wanted a bmw:

http://www.pistonheads.com/SALES/3122552.htm

Admittedly running costs wouldn't be exactly cheap, but they never are on something interesting.


----------



## Ninja59

RisingPower said:


> Oy you, fix or repair daily
> 
> See, if russ wanted something more special for £25k and still wanted a bmw:
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/SALES/3122552.htm
> 
> Admittedly running costs wouldn't be exactly cheap, but they never are on something interesting.


this or the RS.


----------



## Ryan_W

RisingPower said:


> Oh and, I hope you weren't referring to cars like the GTR, Skyline R34, NSX, Supra, mazda rx7 etc.


I appreciate all the aforementioned cars and highly rate their tuning capabilities, but very few are tastefully modified.

I'd rather have a nice 1000bhp e46


----------



## RisingPower

Ryan_W said:


> I appreciate all the aforementioned cars and highly rate their tuning capabilities, but very few are tastefully modified.
> 
> I'd rather have a nice 1000bhp e46
> 
> HPF Turbo M3 vs lamborghini gallardo vs mustang vs r1 vs bikes - YouTube


If that's the stage 4, I wouldn't accuse it of being tasteful.

Wide body kits on an m3 aren't exactly tasteful.


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Who said I am bothered about £170 tyres? The tyre price is fine! £3-400 per corner gets painful, but 18's on a 135i are only £220 or so on the rear and £130 on the front, for PS3's!

So there


----------



## RisingPower

RussZS said:


> Who said I am bothered about £170 tyres? The tyre price is fine! £3-400 per corner gets painful, but 18's on a 135i are only £220 or so on the rear and £130 on the front, for PS3's!
> 
> So there


Meh, you don't need to change them that often :lol:

I still suggest you take a look at a csl  Or even just an E46 M3 and pocket the difference for when something goes wrong.


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

I am dude!

This one is near me

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...3/quicksearch/true/postcode/wv132aa?logcode=p


----------



## Ninja59

RussZS said:


> Who said I am bothered about £170 tyres? The tyre price is fine! £3-400 per corner gets painful, but 18's on a 135i are only £220 or so on the rear and £130 on the front, for PS3's!
> 
> So there


never knew you could fit one of these to the corners?












i'll get my coat.


----------



## RisingPower

RussZS said:


> I am dude!
> 
> This one is near me
> 
> http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...3/quicksearch/true/postcode/wv132aa?logcode=p


Euch. Get one in a decent colour  I.e not bile yellow or dull as dishwater black, or my newly hated colour, gunmetal just looks dull gray


----------



## Ninja59

RisingPower said:


> Euch. Get one in a decent colour  I.e not bile yellow or dull as dishwater black, or my newly hated colour, gunmetal just looks dull gray


white or silver for me  oh sorry i was getting my coat bye!


----------



## RisingPower

One other thing to bear in mind russ, you won't feel how heavy it is until you chuck it about a bit, so if they don't let you take it round any fast winding corners....


----------



## Ryan_W

This is pretty easy on the eye me thinks...

960bhp too...










I do love the e46 CSL's too, just a little impractical.

Don't buy a standard e46 m3, they're not that quick and rather hard to mod.

If by chance you do get one, we'll have to meet up so I can show you my tail lights :wave:


----------



## SimonBash

Russ, 911 Carrera 2, £20k will buy you a 2003 minter and depreciation will be low, not really expensive to run either.

Or Cayman as mentioned before....

You know you want a porker!


----------



## Leemack

RussZS said:


> I like the look of this
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3106068.htm


Mm

Thats a nice car !


----------



## Leemack

RussZS said:


> I like the look of this
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3106068.htm





SimonBash said:


> Russ, 911 Carrera 2, £20k will buy you a 2003 minter and depreciation will be low, not really expensive to run either.
> 
> Or Cayman as mentioned before....
> 
> You know you want a porker!


If he gets a Porker 911 then I'm going straight to his to request a test drive - I am in serious love with 911's


----------



## Ryan_W

If you get a Porka, make sure its a proper one, none of the 4WD sh*t. A 997 Carrera 2S would be my choice:










http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3103874.htm

You'd get that for 25 bags no worries!


----------



## Leemack

Ryan_W said:


> If you get a Porka, make sure its a proper one, none of the 4WD sh*t. A 997 Carrera 2S would be my choice:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3103874.htm
> 
> You'd get that for 25 bags no worries!


:argie:


----------



## CraigQQ

the porsche would probably be my choice over most of the jap cars at this price...
and no brainer over any bmw tbh.

:lol: at the video of a 900+ bhp bmw...... useless car....
pay stupid money for insurance to drive it daily and not use even a quarter of its power unless your taking it on a track...

my 1000bhp bmw can go 200mph.... thats great son.. i'll see you on the motorway when neither one of us can go faster than 70mph mate :thumb:


----------



## SimonBash

Ryan_W said:


> If you get a Porka, make sure its a proper one, none of the 4WD sh*t. A 997 Carrera 2S would be my choice:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3103874.htm
> 
> You'd get that for 25 bags no worries!


+1:thumb:


----------



## Leemack

CraigQQ said:


> the porsche would probably be my choice over most of the jap cars at this price...
> and no brainer over any bmw tbh.
> 
> :lol: at the video of a 900+ bhp bmw...... useless car....
> pay stupid money for insurance to drive it daily and not use even a quarter of its power unless your taking it on a track...
> 
> my 1000bhp bmw can go 200mph.... thats great son.. i'll see you on the motorway when neither one of us can go faster than 70mph mate :thumb:


Exactly.

Nothing wrong with a 400HP beast to have a little fun with but like you say - 70mph Motorways aren't the place for more than that


----------



## CraigQQ

a 997 carrera 2s in white would do me :argie:

tbh i would rather have something that looked like a supercar and went like a fiat 500.. than something that looked like a fiat 500 and went like a supercar..

performance is for track cars.. style is where its at for street cars for me.... i prefer the look of a ferrari enzo than the speed of it..
give me one with a 1.0L engine in it and i'll be as happy as larry


----------



## Leemack

When i was 11/12 years old, a friend of the family had one of these new and I loved it


----------



## CraigQQ

sorry showshine but YUK


hate them things lol....

:tumbleweed:


not many people hate the renualt 5 turbo either... but i do :lol:


----------



## Ryan_W

Style over substance... Not me thank you!

I'm the opposite. Yes I've got a lot of nice cars, some capable of 200mph+ out the box, but one of my favourite cars from the past was a 500bhp Saab 9000 Aero I once owned. Beat my mates SLR from 50-150mph, he was pretty shocked.

And lets not all pretend we stick to 70 of the motorway, we're all adults here....


----------



## CraigQQ

performance over style..........

no different to a chav in a nova wanting a 2.0 conversion in it....

sorry but thats my view of it


----------



## Ryan_W

You're more than welcome and entitled to your own opinions... 

I myself need speed in my life, it's the way I'm buttered. I've never been into exterior modifying or bake bean can exhausts. Subtleness is key. That's why I love my little 135i, extremely underrated and able to 'hang' with the big boys (M3, RS4 etc)...


----------



## GJM

CraigQQ said:


> sorry showshine but YUK
> 
> hate them things lol....
> 
> :tumbleweed:
> 
> not many people hate the renualt 5 turbo either... but i do :lol:


I'm with you, the Pug 205 1.9 was a far better car in that hot hatch era


----------



## Leemack

Wasn't my favourite but I liked it.

My all time fave of the 80's/90's was :-


----------



## CraigQQ

my dad had one of them.. in red..


----------



## PugIain

Pff on about all these cars with big engines and 300 + bhp,and my tractor engined Peugeot could be them all in a race.


----------



## 335dAND110XS

RisingPower said:


> I'd rather have a slightly slower focus rs than a diesel, I couldn't care less how much quicker the diesel was.
> 
> It's not just about how quick a car is for driving enjoyment.
> 
> I honestly can't think of any bmw which sounds good apart from the M3 E46 CSL and the E60 M5.
> 
> German cars do a lot, very well, but I can't think of many that are particularly interesting, or appealing to the senses.


I'd rather have a diesel than some low rent Jap thing with all the class of a gold trimmed old Lexus but each to their own. I can think of countless German cars with plenty of character and a great engine note - check Evos current issue on the best sounding cars. A lot of German cars, very few Jap ones...

Jap cars do some things well but they will never ever have any class even if they try oh so hard to obtain it.

You talk about your 350 like it's the last word in driver involvement and character - well if a painfully notch gearbox, an interior penned by a member of the RNIB, a wayward chassis, seating for only two yet enormous weight and an asthmatic top end are where it's at then I don't want to be there.

Agree with those above - style over substance is not a good thing. Way too many cars have it.


----------



## Ninja59

335dAND110XS said:


> I'd rather have a diesel than some low rent Jap thing with all the class of a gold trimmed old Lexus but each to their own. I can think of countless German cars with plenty of character and a great engine note - check Evos current issue on the best sounding cars. A lot of German cars, very few Jap ones...
> 
> Jap cars do some things well but they will never ever have any class even if they try oh so hard to obtain it.
> 
> You talk about your 350 like it's the last word in driver involvement and character - well if a painfully notch gearbox, an interior penned by a member of the RNIB, a wayward chassis, seating for only two yet enormous weight and an asthmatic top end are where it's at then I don't want to be there.
> 
> Agree with those above - style over substance is not a good thing. Way too many cars have it.


I dont think RP has tbh, hes changed so bloody much on it in the first place, heck he even said it was slower than his m3 which the 350 replaced :wall:

TBH we all pretty much agree no one sticks to 70 on the m'way but beyond 80 ish is pointless...so huge amounts of power which you are never going to fully exploit on the public highway are just that pointless, unless you want to loose your driving license in a heartbeat. Anything above that then go down the AB or go on a track day, not only will it be a lot safer for you and more importantly the ones around you then if you do loose it yes you smash your pride and joy but you have not endangered anyone else through your clownish actions.

I do like sleepers yes but at the same time i dont care if its abit slower than X if at least i dont look like a c*ck in a training shoe and at least some attempt at nice design.

I am not arguing in regards to some german cars because a few DO sound good, but most i find dull and all the same and even at that i would not class BM's sounding as nice as some mercs now....


----------



## CraigQQ

Ninja59 said:


> I dont think RP has tbh, hes changed so bloody much on it in the first place, heck he even said it was slower than his m3 which the 350 replaced :wall:
> 
> TBH we all pretty much agree no one sticks to 70 on the m'way but beyond 80 ish is pointless...so huge amounts of power which you are never going to fully exploit on the public highway are just that pointless, unless you want to loose your driving license in a heartbeat. Anything above that then go down the AB or go on a track day, not only will it be a lot safer for you and more importantly the ones around you then if you do loose it yes you smash your pride and joy but you have not endangered anyone else through your clownish actions.
> 
> I do like sleepers yes but at the same time i dont care if its abit slower than X if at least i dont look like a c*ck in a training shoe and at least some attempt at nice design.
> 
> I am not arguing in regards to some german cars because a few DO sound good, but most i find dull and all the same.


and the 350z looks better than the m3..

the e46 m3 is very bland.. the 1 series is a running shoe.. z4 is a flip flop :lol:

the only bmw i've thought about buying is the newest facelifted 320i coupe.. finally a nice looking bmw... the rest fail in terms of styling.

anyone who thinks a f10 m5 with its 560bhp has better styling or performance than a nissan GTR with 530bhp (yes japanese 335and110xs) is off their trolly


----------



## Ninja59

CraigQQ said:


> and the 350z looks better than the m3..
> 
> the e46 m3 is very bland.. the 1 series is a running shoe.. z4 is a flip flop :lol:
> 
> the only bmw i've thought about buying is the newest facelifted 320i coupe.. finally a nice looking bmw... the rest fail in terms of styling.
> 
> anyone who thinks a f10 m5 with its 560bhp has better styling or performance than a nissan GTR with 530bhp (yes japanese 335and110xs) is off their trolly


i have to somewhat agree on the 320i coupe they do look nice, but then i like the new e class coupe/cab more, then finallly i end up looking at jag's but thats going off topic.

tbh from some of the posts i have seen recently a few BMW drivers are off their trolly on here anything without that badge is sh*te basically hmm i think its snob value generally more like.

oh and Craig excellent descriptions :lol:


----------



## Ryan_W

R35's are chav. It's still a Nissan!!!

And wait for the repair bill when it goes wrong, BIG bucks!............


----------



## CraigQQ

if your all about performance over style and need speed in your life the r35 is the fastest 4 seater production car available..
0-60 in 3.2 seconds with hard launch control.
4 seats(sort of :lol

and head turning appeal... an m5 has never turned my head, short of the "fat cat" style.. it doesn't look far enough from a normal 5 series to catch your eye most of the time.. unless its being booted and you hear it


----------



## Ryan_W

Who says German cars sound lame?....


----------



## 335dAND110XS

Ninja59 said:


> I dont think RP has tbh, hes changed so bloody much on it in the first place, heck he even said it was slower than his m3 which the 350 replaced :wall:
> 
> TBH we all pretty much agree no one sticks to 70 on the m'way but beyond 80 ish is pointless...so huge amounts of power which you are never going to fully exploit on the public highway are just that pointless, unless you want to loose your driving license in a heartbeat. Anything above that then go down the AB or go on a track day, not only will it be a lot safer for you and more importantly the ones around you then if you do loose it yes you smash your pride and joy but you have not endangered anyone else through your clownish actions.
> 
> I do like sleepers yes but at the same time i dont care if its abit slower than X if at least i dont look like a c*ck in a training shoe and at least some attempt at nice design.
> 
> I am not arguing in regards to some german cars because a few DO sound good, but most i find dull and all the same and even at that i would not class BM's sounding as nice as some mercs now....


AMG Mercs are definitely the best sounding production cars out there at the moment.

I was checking out C63 estates but the range between fuel stops is HIDEOUS! Plus they are still expensive too  I think the latest C63 coupe gives the M3 a run for it's money BIG time. No BMW blinkering here - plenty of others make superb cars and not just the Germans.

To me, it's all about sleepers - I LOVE them. The more subtle yet rapid, the better.


----------



## Ryan_W

Yea MPG isn't great on the C63's, around 15mpg I think. Whack a SC on the engine, combined with a 3 tonne car, you're looking at 8mpg!


----------



## RisingPower

335dAND110XS said:


> I'd rather have a diesel than some low rent Jap thing with all the class of a gold trimmed old Lexus but each to their own. I can think of countless German cars with plenty of character and a great engine note - check Evos current issue on the best sounding cars. A lot of German cars, very few Jap ones...
> 
> Jap cars do some things well but they will never ever have any class even if they try oh so hard to obtain it.
> 
> You talk about your 350 like it's the last word in driver involvement and character - well if a painfully notch gearbox, an interior penned by a member of the RNIB, a wayward chassis, seating for only two yet enormous weight and an asthmatic top end are where it's at then I don't want to be there.
> 
> Agree with those above - style over substance is not a good thing. Way too many cars have it.


Sorry, when did I say my 350 was the last word in driver involvement and character?

I said i'd rather have a focus rs than a diesel of any kind. I don't like diesels, they have a massively heavy block up front, very short power bands, they'll never sound like petrols, and the only reason for them is economy.

I don't think the gearbox is notchy at all? It's certainly no worse than the e46 m3. Strut brace, so? Enormous weight, the 135i weighs the same, it's also tiny, sitting two in the back from what i've seen seems optimistic.

I also couldn't care less about class. I don't care about how subtle it looks.

Which new german cars have character and sound good? I can think of the mercedes clk63 black, that's it.


----------



## RisingPower

I also didn't say most jap cars sounded better than german cars.

I'm still not quite sure where you're getting this jap vs german from?

I simply don't see many german cars that are interesting, when there are so many other cars which are interesting from other countries.


----------



## RisingPower

Ryan_W said:


> R35's are chav. It's still a Nissan!!!
> 
> And wait for the repair bill when it goes wrong, BIG bucks!............


Must be some rich chavs to afford an R35 :lol:


----------



## ksm1985

what about an R36 passat :lol:


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

ksm1985 said:


> what about an R36 passat :lol:


Cracking motor tbh!


----------



## Ryan_W

RisingPower said:


> Must be some rich chavs to afford an R35 :lol:


Who said money buys you class?! 

My mate Will has an R35 and a Ferrari 430. The Nissan kills the Ferrari in every aspect, but it's still a Nissan, even he says that! Haha...

Just for future reference, I've had 4s up in my 135i for long trips no worries. There's actually quite a lot of room in the back due to the angle of the rear seats. That said, I don't like carrying more than one passenger due to the extra weight!


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

I keep watching 135i vids on YouTube, it's a seriously impressive motor with a remap


----------



## ianFRST

the 1 series is a lovely motor, just cant help but think all the "mums" and "older ladies" will love it more :lol: 

if your trying to step up from a hot hatch, then you defo need to be in a posh beemer or merc  getting old mate


----------



## ksm1985

1 series is really nice,


----------



## RisingPower

Ryan_W said:


> Who said money buys you class?!
> 
> My mate Will has an R35 and a Ferrari 430. The Nissan kills the Ferrari in every aspect, but it's still a Nissan, even he says that! Haha...
> 
> Just for future reference, I've had 4s up in my 135i for long trips no worries. There's actually quite a lot of room in the back due to the angle of the rear seats. That said, I don't like carrying more than one passenger due to the extra weight!


I don't know of many chavs who can afford an R35.

But no, money doesn't buy you class, but chances are if you could afford a zonda, you'd buy a zonda, not a nissan r35.

I'm surprised at the space, I remember looking in the back of a 1 series, albeit the hatch, and it looked like you'd have to remove your legs.


----------



## RisingPower

RussZS said:


> I keep watching 135i vids on YouTube, it's a seriously impressive motor with a remap


Didn't you say this about the golf? 

I wouldn't go off videos, i'd go off what it feels like to you.

Bear in mind, the golf wasn't exactly that heavy and you liked the r26 for its nimbleness/lightness.

I don't believe a 135i is going to offer you that.

But as I said before, I don't know what you want  If you're getting on a bit, like ian said, the 135i or M3


----------



## tom-coupe

thought about one of these russ

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3065766.htm


----------



## Grizzle

My mate is selling his M3 had some Exhaust work done thats all though.


----------



## tom-coupe

or this! http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3166866.htm


----------



## ant_s

-1 on the Porche's

Don't do anything for me at all. Sorry.


----------



## RisingPower

These have tickled me with the r34:


----------



## tom-coupe

somthing like a tvr. yes you will always be gratful of it starting but just look at it

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2838818.htm


----------



## RisingPower

tom-coupe said:


> somthing like a tvr. yes you will always be gratful of it starting but just look at it
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2838818.htm


4 seats?


----------



## tom-coupe

sorry my bad


----------



## tom-coupe

jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3090241.htm


----------



## Ninja59

tom-coupe said:


> jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3090241.htm


i was going to post that exact car! :lol:


----------



## Ryan_W

3rd gear pull in my bog standard 135i (306bhp) on my private runway....


----------



## scooby73

Have you thought about an Impreza?

Have a look at some of these:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2588496.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2973130.htm

This one comes in under budget:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3122637.htm


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

scooby73 said:


> Have you thought about an Impreza?
> 
> Have a look at some of these:
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2588496.htm
> http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2973130.htm
> 
> This one comes in under budget:
> http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3122637.htm


That Saloon is amazing! I love them!


----------



## scooby73

RussZS said:


> That Saloon is amazing! I love them!


Subaru seem to be back on track with the new saloons.

Henry Catchpole who writes for EVO is running an STI on long term and he seems to like it.


----------



## CraigQQ

RisingPower said:


> I don't know of many chavs who can afford an R35.
> 
> But no, money doesn't buy you class, but chances are if you could afford a zonda, you'd buy a zonda, not a nissan r35.
> 
> I'm surprised at the space, I remember looking in the back of a 1 series, albeit the hatch, and it looked like you'd have to remove your legs.


well im 6 foot... and i can't get in the back of my boss' 1 series hatch, with the roof line of the coupe i'd expect even less room,
i can get in the hatch if i put my head to the side, but the seat wont go all the way to click into position even on its furtherest forward point.



RisingPower said:


> Must be some rich chavs to afford an R35 :lol:


see more chav's in bmws than r35's myself... maybe its the area.


----------



## bigmc

Nothing chav about a GTR, bmw on the other hand are regularly beaten with the halfords/ripspeed brush. As for the 900+bhp stuff being posted, I'm not sure Russ is going to be spending the £15-20K needed to get anything near that on top od the £25k purchase price.


----------



## CraigQQ

bigmc said:


> Nothing chav about a GTR, bmw on the other hand are regularly beaten with the halfords/ripspeed brush. As for the 900+bhp stuff being posted, I'm not sure Russ is going to be spending the £15-20K needed to get anything near that on top od the £25k purchase price.


as usual bigmc.. well put.


----------



## Ryan_W

Oh how we could argue about this 'til we're blue in the face.... 

I'll stick to my guns and you can stick you yours... 

Ryan







It's still just a Datsun!


----------



## Ryan_W

Not..........
Going...........
To...................
Bite.....................


lol


----------



## CraigQQ

:lol: this is interesting.. manufacturer reliability stats for 2011









top 10 most reliable manufacturers/cars.. all from asia 

% number on the far right yellow column is failure rate..

nissan... or as you call it Datsun  22%
nazi mobiles in at number 21  failure rate 32%

looks like the german reliability crown has been ripped away by the japanese/chinese/malay

still not biting? :lol:


----------



## CraigQQ

here ninja.. you better look at that aswell mr ovlov...
nissan is well better than your zimmer frame


----------



## Ninja59

CraigQQ said:


> here ninja.. you better look at that aswell mr ovlov...
> nissan is well better than your zimmer frame


whats the 2nd column average mileage? iirc this is based on 3yr+ old vehicles only as well


----------



## ITHAQVA

i've had Ford & BMW's i found both the same in reliability.

I love Nazi mobiles because of the styling "Seig heil groß Rennen Zisterne"!


----------



## ITHAQVA

Ninja59 said:


> whats the 2nd column average mileage? iirc this is based on 3yr+ old vehicles only as well


You couldn't do a column for over 3 years for jap cars because most of them have fallen to bits after this time


----------



## CraigQQ

doesn't say anything about age of car.. its based over all the cars they tested from each manufacturer over a whole range of years..

not just old and not just new.. so true ratings.

face it grandad.. your volvo isn't as reliable as japanese engineering.. 

with japan at the forefront of technology.. it was only a matter of time before the scale tipped to them.


----------



## CraigQQ

ITHAQVA said:


> You couldn't do a column for over 3 years for jap cars because most of them have fallen to bits after this time


and the nazi mobiles after 3 years are all held together with halfords/ripspeed stickers


----------



## Ninja59

CraigQQ said:


> doesn't say anything about age of car.. its based over all the cars they tested from each manufacturer over a whole range of years..
> 
> not just old and not just new.. so true ratings.
> 
> face it grandad.. your volvo isn't as reliable as japanese engineering..
> 
> with japan at the forefront of technology.. it was only a matter of time before the scale tipped to them.


i think you need to look at the model list as well the C30 came higher than your KumKat and the 1 series

this is not the 2011 results either!


----------



## NickP

CraigQQ said:


> with japan at the forefront of technology.. it was only a matter of time before the scale tipped to them.


Don't mention brakes or sticky throttles...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Grizzle

I'm saying nothing about reliability lol.


----------



## Ninja59

Grizzle said:


> I'm saying nothing about reliability lol.


i dont think you should comment on certain dealerships either regarding warranty work! :lol:


----------



## ITHAQVA

CraigQQ said:


> and the nazi mobiles after 3 years are all held together with halfords/ripspeed stickers


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: What, no *** packetss & duct tape :lol::lol:


----------



## OvlovMike

As I said, how about a C30 T5 with some bits. Anywhere from 280bhp upwards, in a good chassis without looking like you're having a midlife crisis in a bright green shopping trolley with a much nicer interior.

Just got to watch a few of the Polestar vs. videos to see how capable the Volvo can be - granted it's a V50 drivetrain underneath but it's very closely related to the C30 itself. The T5 lump is very easy to get some reasonably big (hot hatch) numbers from without encroaching too much on reliability.


----------



## RisingPower

Ryan_W said:


> 3rd gear pull in my bog standard 135i (306bhp) on my private runway....


It's just not *that* quick and it does to me just sound like every other bmw straight 6.


----------



## ITHAQVA

If I could have spent a bit more I would have gone for a 330d or 335d, good mix of economy & power. Don’t understand why there are so many BMW haters, I’ve had three & they have been outstandingly reliable & have given immense driving pleasure :thumb: 
But have to agree if you buy a bad one it can really put you off a brand. Two of my friends experiences with Honda & Fiat (Both new) will forever put me off those brands, but then again BMW & the cracking alloys on 5 series is a joke.
All motor manufacturers get away with far too much; if a new car fails, it should be replaced not repaired. This would encourage the motor manufacturers to take more attention to their building processes etc... :thumb:


----------



## Ryan_W

RisingPower said:


> It's just not *that* quick and it does to me just sound like every other bmw straight 6.


Quicker than your 350


----------



## CraigQQ

Ninja59 said:


> i think you need to look at the model list as well the C30 came higher than your KumKat and the 1 series
> 
> this is not the 2011 results either!


according to "What Car" its the 2011 results.



ITHAQVA said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: What, no *** packetss & duct tape :lol::lol:


:lol: nah thats after 4 years when your ripspeed stickers start peeling :lol:


----------



## RisingPower

ITHAQVA said:


> If I could have spent a bit more I would have gone for a 330d or 335d, good mix of economy & power. Don't understand why there are so many BMW haters, I've had three & they have been outstandingly reliable & have given immense driving pleasure :thumb:
> But have to agree if you buy a bad one it can really put you off a brand. Two of my friends experiences with Honda & Fiat (Both new) will forever put me off those brands, but then again BMW & the cracking alloys on 5 series is a joke.
> All motor manufacturers get away with far too much; if a new car fails, it should be replaced not repaired. This would encourage the motor manufacturers to take more attention to their building processes etc... :thumb:


Fella, you know I don't hate bmw's. I'm just not a fanboy of them, then again, i'm trying to think of a brand I am a fan of..... (Pagani? :lol

I love the e46 m3 csl, I don't get the e46 m3 after having owned one.

I like the e60 m5 and see it's purpose.

I struggle to think of any other bmws I like.


----------



## RisingPower

Ryan_W said:


> Quicker than your 350


Yup, and i'd say it's slower than the M3 was.


----------



## Ryan_W

Proper run:



EDIT: It's definitely quicker than a standard e46 m3 (SMG).


----------



## RisingPower

I'm sorry, but it really does nothing for me whatsoever, it may as well be an automatic diesel of any other car. 

If I had the money to spend on a new 135i, it would go on a c6 corvette, or a r34 skyline, no question of a doubt.


----------



## gex23

Ryan_W said:


> Proper run:
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: It's definitely quicker than a standard e46 m3 (SMG).


Posting endless speedo videos on a forum .....

.... and you call GTR owners chavs

*sigh*

P.s - That reliability chart makes me sad


----------



## spursfan

OvlovMike said:


> Monaro, if you don't care too much about fuel bills. Far more fun than all of the above, primarily because you don't look like a *****. Should be able to pick up a VXR 500 (or a VXR8 if you prefer that look or want a newer car!) if you've got patience to find one.
> 
> Audi's customer service is ****, and the whole German reliability thing is ********, and BMW are good but I still don't know as I could face owning one - especially with the running costs.


Had a Monaro pull up beside me on Thursday night, what a wicked sounding car, absolutely awesome!!


----------



## RisingPower

Ryan_W said:


> Proper run:
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: It's definitely quicker than a standard e46 m3 (SMG).


SMG isn't exactly brilliant in the m3 (nor did I really like the manual). But either way, I bought the zed, even though it was slower, because in my opinion the M3 made you feel completely isolated from the experience.

You could have gone as fast as you liked and still be bored to death.

That and I prefer the way the 350z looks.


----------



## ITHAQVA

RisingPower said:


> Fella, you know I don't hate bmw's. I'm just not a fanboy of them, then again, i'm trying to think of a brand I am a fan of..... (Pagani? :lol
> 
> I love the e46 m3 csl, I don't get the e46 m3 after having owned one.
> 
> I like the e60 m5 and see it's purpose.
> 
> I struggle to think of any other bmws I like.


It was ageneral comment for all. 
I must admit i love BMW's (But not all, the new 6 back end is WTF Ugly IMHO!!!!). I love some of the Jap stuff, Love german although cant get my head around merc & their front end styling, Ford/Seat/Volvo/Sabb all looking bloody dam good too. In fact it is very hard to fault many cars in regards to styling these days.

Cars can be a very personal thing to some people & we can all get very passionate about our fave cars,like music & the way you dress etc.. :thumb:

If money were no object im sure many of us would have a collection of many motor cars of different flavours


----------



## ITHAQVA

RisingPower said:


> SMG isn't exactly brilliant in the m3 (nor did I really like the manual). But either way, I bought the zed, even though it was slower, because in my opinion the M3 made you feel completely isolated from the experience.
> 
> You could have gone as fast as you liked and still be bored to death.
> 
> That and I prefer the way the 350z looks.


I prefer the 350z over the 1 series (there ive owned up )
I've never personally liked small cars, every time i get into a small car it feels really wierd & wrong, I'm sure its the same for people who dont like large cars, you gotta have the right feel when ya in your racing tank :thumb:


----------



## jay_bmw

Meh, they might not be as reliable but your not bathed in a sea of cheap plastic in a bmw


----------



## Ryan_W

Factual evidence of a standard car which a forum member is looking to potentially buy.... Get back in your box.

And I didn't call R35 owners chavs, I said the car was a bit chavvy.

As with Supras, old GTR's etc, it's natural that the owners will change along with the cars age, as they get more affordable to the RS Turbo crowd who want to stick f-ing horrific spoilers and bodykits on them...

Each to their own (again)... Just saying, how many R35's are really used to their full potential on UK roads? As for being a rich mans track toy... I'd rather have a Radical SR3 Turbo.


----------



## CraigQQ

ITHAQVA said:


> If money were no object im sure many of us would have a collection of many motor cars of different flavours


not me.. just 10 Koenigsegg's in the driveway and maybe a gtr r35 for rainy days :lol:


----------



## RisingPower

jay_bmw said:


> Meh, they might not be as reliable but your not bathed in a sea of cheap plastic in a bmw


Who cares though? My M3 had horrid seats. Every single time I drove it I got backache.


----------



## gex23

CraigQQ said:


> maybe a gtr r35 for rainy days :lol:


Chav! Where's your Burberry? :lol:


----------



## RisingPower

Ryan_W said:


> Who said money buys you class?!
> 
> My mate Will has an R35 and a Ferrari 430. The Nissan kills the Ferrari in every aspect, but it's still a Nissan, even he says that! Haha...
> 
> Just for future reference, I've had 4s up in my 135i for long trips no worries. There's actually quite a lot of room in the back due to the angle of the rear seats. That said, I don't like carrying more than one passenger due to the extra weight!


Urr...


----------



## CraigQQ

Ryan_W said:


> Each to their own (again)... Just saying, how many R35's are really used to their full potential on UK roads?.


none as they are too fast for uk roads...
and according to you.. so is your 135..


----------



## RisingPower

Ryan_W said:


> I'd rather have a Radical SR3 Turbo.


I'd rather have an ultima gtr.


----------



## RisingPower

ITHAQVA said:


> Thats a swear word isnt it


I've heard *jap* is in some german car circles


----------



## ITHAQVA

RisingPower said:


> I've heard *jap* is in some german car circles


That would be the 350z M


----------



## jay_bmw

RisingPower said:


> Who cares though? My M3 had horrid seats. Every single time I drove it I got backache.


Who cares if its faster though?

Or any aspect of a car to be honest?

I like the fact my bmw i've got is well put together,

Every Jap car i have owned has felt a cheap crap unpersonalised experience.

Each to their own.


----------



## RisingPower

jay_bmw said:


> Who cares if its faster though?
> 
> Or any aspect of a car to be honest?
> 
> I like the fact my bmw i've got is well put together,
> 
> Every Jap car i have owned has felt a cheap crap unpersonalised experience.
> 
> Each to their own.


Faster? WTH?

I said, it gave me backache. What good is worrying about cheap plastics when you get out with massive backache?

That's, like, the interior maybe? If the seats are rubbish, who gives an f about plastics?

Oh and, my m3 wasn't well put together. Unless you call window trim peeling off in hot weather good quality, as well as doors where the central locking had some.... issues in winter.


----------



## CraigQQ

in exchange for my cheap plastics my 21k gets me 10 times the amount of gadgets it would at bmw.


----------



## jay_bmw

RisingPower said:


> Faster? WTH?
> 
> I said, it gave me backache. What good is worrying about cheap plastics when you get out with massive backache?
> 
> That's, like, the interior maybe? If the seats are rubbish, who gives an f about plastics?
> 
> Oh and, my m3 wasn't well put together. Unless you call window trim peeling off in hot weather good quality, as well as doors where the central locking had some.... issues in winter.


Ah never mind your obviously overjoyed with your Jap Crap wanna be fast an furious machine.


----------



## RisingPower

Here's your bmw interior quality:


----------



## RisingPower

jay_bmw said:


> Ah never mind your obviously overjoyed with your Jap Crap wanna be fast an furious machine.


:lol::lol::lol:

No, I just prefer it to something that left me without a car for quite a bit of winter :lol:


----------



## jay_bmw

Ooh a seal has come loose from the window, lets discount them alltogether.

Never mind the driving expericence and the looks of the overall package.


----------



## ITHAQVA

RisingPower said:


> Faster? WTH?
> 
> I said, it gave me backache. What good is worrying about cheap plastics when you get out with massive backache?
> 
> That's, like, the interior maybe? If the seats are rubbish, who gives an f about plastics?
> 
> Oh and, my m3 wasn't well put together. Unless you call window trim peeling off in hot weather good quality, as well as doors where the central locking had some.... issues in winter.


One of the guys at work had the same issues with his 320D Msport, I have one & i find it incredibly comfortable. we are all built different 

I've got into other cars & must admit seats do vary a lot across the brands.


----------



## RisingPower

ITHAQVA said:


> One of the guys at work had the same issues with his 320D Msport, I have one & i find it incredibly comfortable. we are all built different
> 
> I've got into other cars & must admit seats do vary a lot across the brands.


No matter how I adjusted the seats in the m3, in like maybe 10 million different ways, I still couldn't get comfortable.

I really don't know what it was about them, just recaros seemed far more comfortable.


----------



## Ryan_W

Bet this is pretty rapid...

http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2526908.htm


----------



## RisingPower

jay_bmw said:


> Ooh a seal has come loose from the window, lets discount them alltogether.
> 
> Never mind the driving expericence and the looks of the overall package.


That, the rubbish rtabs, weak coil springs, defective coil packs, the weak brakes, the stupid oil you had to get and the central locking which just decided against working one day.

With regards to driving experience, you mean like the jerky clutch round town and the looks which tbh aren't that great.


----------



## RisingPower

Ryan_W said:


> Bet this is pretty rapid...
> 
> http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2526908.htm


I want to like it, but it needs to be 3 doors and shorter.


----------



## CraigQQ

jay_bmw said:


> Ooh a seal has come loose from the window, lets discount them alltogether.
> 
> Never mind the driving expericence and the looks of the overall package.


overall package...

dated looks (apart from the brand new 3 series coupe facelift, the X3(yes i like them) and the m5 (think its e90))
overpriced thanks to a badge on the front(ooh and one on the rear!!!)
no gadgets unless you buy the top TOP models or pay a very expensive premium..
interior on the new one series is ugly and cheap imo (116)


----------



## ITHAQVA

RisingPower said:


> No matter how I adjusted the seats in the m3, in like maybe 10 million different ways, I still couldn't get comfortable.
> 
> I really don't know what it was about them, just recaros seemed far more comfortable.


Guy at work had same problem, got rid of it within two weeks, got a 5 series & loved it. I think mine feels like a fast arm chair


----------



## RisingPower

ITHAQVA said:


> Guy at work had same problem, got rid of it within two weeks, got a 5 series & loved it. I think mine feels like a fast arm chair


Ahh, but you have an e92. I'm betting it has different seats to those in the e46 m3. The supposedly brilliant seats in the m3 :lol:


----------



## jay_bmw

RisingPower said:


> That, the rubbish rtabs, weak coil springs, defective coil packs, the weak brakes, the stupid oil you had to get and the central locking which just decided against working one day.
> 
> With regards to driving experience, you mean like the jerky clutch round town and the looks which tbh aren't that great.


Like i say you enjoy your jap crap,

Hell, the steering wheel in a 350z is the same as my dad's nissan navara... well sports car brah. :lol:


----------



## SteveyG

Ryan_W said:


> Bet this is pretty rapid...
> 
> http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2526908.htm


Niiiiiiice :thumb:


----------



## ITHAQVA

RisingPower said:


> I want to like it, but it needs to be 3 doors and shorter.


I cant seem to like the front ends of the mercs, agree why have four doors, two doors, less is more


----------



## RisingPower

jay_bmw said:


> Like i say you enjoy your jap crap,
> 
> Hell, the steering wheel in a 350z is the same as my dad's nissan navara... well sports car brah. :lol:


I enjoy my jap crap eh?

Oh noes, my steering wheel is the same as in your dad's navara. Oh no, because that makes it get 1000000000 extra horses!!!


----------



## Ninja59

OvlovMike said:


> As I said, how about a C30 T5 with some bits. Anywhere from 280bhp upwards, in a good chassis without looking like you're having a midlife crisis in a bright green shopping trolley with a much nicer interior.
> 
> Just got to watch a few of the Polestar vs. videos to see how capable the Volvo can be - granted it's a V50 drivetrain underneath but it's very closely related to the C30 itself. The T5 lump is very easy to get some reasonably big (hot hatch) numbers from without encroaching too much on reliability.


i know what your getting at dammit volvo have a mad decade again...you see the RS3 Vs PCP vid?:doublesho


----------



## gex23

jay_bmw said:


> Like i say you enjoy your jap crap,
> 
> Hell, the steering wheel in a 350z is the same as my dad's nissan navara... well sports car brah. :lol:


BMW fanboy much?:lol:


----------



## jay_bmw

CraigQQ said:


> overall package...
> 
> dated looks (apart from the brand new 3 series coupe facelift, the X3(yes i like them) and the m5 (think its e90))
> overpriced thanks to a badge on the front(ooh and one on the rear!!!)
> no gadgets unless you buy the top TOP models or pay a very expensive premium..
> interior on the new one series is ugly and cheap imo (116)


Haters gon Hate.

Funny the 3 series out sold the mondeo in 2010, must be awful cars the beemers


----------



## jay_bmw

gex23 said:


> BMW fanboy much?:lol:


ye i am and proud of it.

You not a fan of anything?


----------



## ITHAQVA

RisingPower said:


> Ahh, but you have an e92. I'm betting it has different seats to those in the e46 m3. The supposedly brilliant seats in the m3 :lol:


I went from a E36 which i loved, was soo much fun, then to the E92 & yes the seats are miles apart in comfort, however i found even the E36 very comfortable even after driving over 6 hours almost non stop. :doublesho


----------



## gex23

jay_bmw said:


> ye i am and proud of it.
> 
> You not a fan of anything?


Yes, but I don't vehemently defend it against all criticism, both substantiated or not


----------



## RisingPower

jay_bmw said:


> ye i am and proud of it.
> 
> You not a fan of anything?


I'm a fan of paganis.

Oh and actually, vauxhall sales were double that of bmw's and then some.

Does that make them more interesting? If so, you'd best go and dump your bmw now :lol:


----------



## RisingPower

ITHAQVA said:


> I went from a E36 which i loved, was soo much fun, then to the E92 & yes the seats are miles apart in comfort, however i found even the E36 very comfortable even after driving over 6 hours almost non stop. :doublesho


I do think it was an M thing, but if they can't get the seats right in a sodding M car.


----------



## Ninja59

jay_bmw said:


> Haters gon Hate.
> 
> Funny the 3 series out sold the mondeo in 2010, must be awful cars the beemers


do sales figures really matter its like apple vs PC some might as well line up like sheep to apple sometimes. End of the day does not mean that every owner likes the car, probably find 3/4's are rep mobiles anyway because of low tax bands these days.


----------



## Ryan_W

Vauxhalls are PROPER s**t!!! 


That's all.


----------



## CraigQQ

jay_bmw said:


> Haters gon Hate.
> 
> Funny the 3 series out sold the mondeo in 2010, must be awful cars the beemers


and the fiesta was the highest selling car in 2010.. does that mean its by default the best on the market?

Nissan Qashqai outsold the x3 by a LONG SHOT.. so it must be better than bmw then going on your logic :thumb:


----------



## RisingPower

Ryan_W said:


> Vauxhalls are PROPER s**t!!!
> 
> That's all.


Urr, vxr8, monaro, vx220, I believe the carlton?


----------



## ITHAQVA

RisingPower said:


> I do think it was an M thing, but if they can't get the seats right in a sodding M car.


 I would expect everything to be close to perfect from a real M car to be honest (never owned one), if the seats were crap I would be very disappointed & move on to another make, if you're a driving enthusiast the seats become very important to the overall experience IMHO :thumb:


----------



## Ninja59

Ryan_W said:


> Vauxhalls are PROPER s**t!!!
> 
> That's all.


well done for providing an excellent insight and op of vauxhalls.


----------



## jay_bmw

CraigQQ said:


> and the fiesta was the highest selling car in 2010.. does that mean its by default the best on the market?
> 
> Nissan Qashqai outsold the x3 by a LONG SHOT.. so it must be better than bmw then going on your logic :thumb:


They're a boring family runabout - whats to argue.


----------



## Ninja59

ITHAQVA said:


> I would expect everything to be close to perfect from a real M car to be honest (never owned one), if the seats were crap I would be very disappointed & move on to another make, if you're a driving enthusiast the seats become very important to the overall experience IMHO :thumb:


it also matters if your after some comfort :lol:


----------



## gex23

jay_bmw said:


> They're a boring family runabout - whats to argue.


So are quite a few models in BMWs lineup.

Does that make me a 'hater'?

/ Innit bruv

// Sarcasm


----------



## ITHAQVA

CraigQQ said:


> and the fiesta was the highest selling car in 2010.. does that mean its by default the best on the market?
> 
> Nissan Qashqai outsold the x3 by a LONG SHOT.. so it must be better than bmw then going on your logic :thumb:


The new fiesta is a stunning looking little car, chap at work has a white one :thumb:


----------



## CraigQQ

jay_bmw said:


> They're a boring family runabout - whats to argue.


compared to a boring rep mobile 

if your logic is correct.. we should all drive fiestas as they are the highest seller so therefor better than the rest.


----------



## Ryan_W

Monaro / VXR8 - Holden but without the street cred
VX220 - Poor mans Lotus
Lotus Carlton - Great car (thanks to Lotus)...


----------



## jay_bmw

Your opinion 

No one can argue with it Bruv.


----------



## Ninja59

jay_bmw said:


> They're a boring family runabout - whats to argue.


i could say that of the 90 or so rep mobile 3 series i see. your op. again. sales figures dont mean that cars are perfect you know. everyone has their own tastes.

tbh in this thread i have only seen one current BMW driver with any sense...that does actually have the ability to see beyond that bloody snob value badge.


----------



## jay_bmw

CraigQQ said:


> compared to a boring rep mobile
> 
> if your logic is correct.. we should all drive fiestas as they are the highest seller so therefor better than the rest.


Yeah coz a 3 series is so much less a drivers car than a nissan


----------



## RisingPower

Ryan_W said:


> Monaro / VXR8 - Holden but without the street cred
> VX220 - Poor mans Lotus
> Lotus Carlton - Great car (thanks to Lotus)...


Exactly with the first one. It's still a vauxhall though, and they still did a vxr500 version.

Again, still a vauxhall and nearly identical to the elise.

Carlton, again still made in partnership with vauxhall.


----------



## jay_bmw

Ninja59 said:


> i could say that of the 90 or so rep mobile 3 series i see. your op. again. sales figures dont mean that cars are perfect you know. everyone has their own tastes.
> 
> tbh in this thread i have only seen one current BMW driver with any sense...that does actually have the ability to see beyond that bloody snob value badge.


No badge snobbery about it for me, i like the drive of a bmw and the way its put together.


----------



## Ninja59

ITHAQVA said:


> The new fiesta is a stunning looking little car, chap at work has a white one :thumb:


i have test drove one and for my mums purposes we discounted it but it was a decent car! the 1.2 was gutless but it got there :lol:


----------



## RisingPower

jay_bmw said:


> No badge snobbery about it for me, i like the drive of a bmw and the way its put together.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## jay_bmw

I don't see the funny side, i have had no issues with my bmw in the way it put together or the way it drives.


----------



## ITHAQVA

Ninja59 said:


> tbh in this thread i have only seen one current BMW driver with any sense...that does actually have the ability to see beyond that bloody snob value badge.


Is that me?


----------



## Ninja59

jay_bmw said:


> No badge snobbery about it for me, i like the drive of a bmw and the way its put together.


well why defend it to something like death. At least have the sensibility at some point that their might be another car manufacturer that OTHER people like.


----------



## gex23

jay_bmw said:


> Yeah coz a 3 series is so much less a drivers car than a nissan


To be honest your arrogance regarding the BMW experience not only makes me cringe, but also puts me off buying one and also justifies my stereotype of the large majority of Beemer drivers.

Russ - Come back to a RenaultSport - you know it makes sense


----------



## RisingPower

Ninja59 said:


> well why defend it to something like death. At least have the sensibility at some point that their might be another car manufacturer that OTHER people like.


F no, someone else have an opinion :doublesho:lol:


----------



## jay_bmw

You stick with your thoughts mate- you probably couldnt handle a bmw anyway


----------



## ITHAQVA

Ninja59 said:


> i have test drove one and for my mums purposes we discounted it but it was a decent car! the 1.2 was gutless but it got there :lol:


Ive never driven one & im suprised the zetec was gutles, i must admit the car does have heavy look to it (Dont know how much it weighs). A relation has just bought a diesal version & loves it.


----------



## RisingPower

jay_bmw said:


> You stick with your thoughts mate- you probably couldnt handle a bmw anyway


Have you actually been reading any of this thread at all? Or were you too busy kissing your bmw badge?


----------



## jay_bmw

RisingPower said:


> F no, someone else have an opinion :doublesho:lol:


I know , imagine the fact you didn't gel with an M3 , hell no-one should buy one :wave:


----------



## CraigQQ

jay_bmw said:


> Yeah coz a 3 series is so much less a drivers car than a nissan


I've driven a 2 brand new bmw's 1 series and 3 series coupe..
and to be honest i didn't like them as much to drive as my QQ, not everyone looks for the same thing in a "drivers car" to me the QQ is a drivers car.. as this driver likes his 
simple..

also test drove a 370z, owned a vectra vxr for 2 and a half years(good in straight lines lol)

and the most fun to drive? an audi s3 as it had a flappy paddle gearbox :lol:
it was a 2.0T :lol: not a race car.. but fun for a test drive..

the most responsive steering? and best handling car.. the 370z, it just feels like an extension of yourself.. 
but it wasn't big enough and too low for me, would be a pain for a daily driver.


----------



## gex23

RisingPower said:


> Have you actually been reading any of this thread at all? Or were you too busy kissing your bmw badge?


I can actually picture him holding his hands over the wing mirrors, sobbing and whispering 'don't listen to them!' :lol:

@ Jay_BMW - lighten up


----------



## CraigQQ

jay_bmw said:


> I know , imagine the fact you didn't gel with an M3 , hell no-one should buy one :wave:


and the fact you did means everyone should buy one?


----------



## jay_bmw

Meh i give up.

OP go for a Jap car - as BMW's are **** and you'll get people like on this thread tellin you you made a bad descision.


----------



## Ninja59

ITHAQVA said:


> Ive never driven one & im suprised the zetec was gutles, i must admit the car does have heavy look to it (Dont know how much it weighs). A relation has just bought a diesal version & loves it.


it was a good laugh i did not drive a diesel tbh. well i had just stepped out of a diesel so of the line (the traffic light line :lol a petrol 1.2 with little torque well it was fun...but i really enjoyed it!....they are quite heavy iirc.


----------



## RisingPower

jay_bmw said:


> Meh i give up.
> 
> OP go for a Jap car - as BMW's are **** and you'll get people like on this thread tellin you you made a bad descision.


Nah, you want to go for a gutless rep car instead :thumb:


----------



## jay_bmw

CraigQQ said:


> and the fact you did means everyone should buy one?


No - i haven't got to an M3 yet, being 23, insurance is an issue. hell i might just buy a QQ and accept defeat.


----------



## jay_bmw

RisingPower said:


> Nah, you want to go for a gutless rep car instead :thumb:


Yeah, a nissan Primera is what i should go for eh?


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Lol! 

I'm buying a FRENCH car!!


----------



## gex23

jay_bmw said:


> I know , imagine the fact you didn't gel with an M3 , hell no-one should buy one :wave:


A friend sold his E46 M3 for a VX220 turbo, running a VXR map (220 bhp / 850 kg), it gets 35 + mpg all day, 0-60 in 4.3 seconds, 155 limited and handles like nothing else - and no he doesn't regret it one bit.

Sorry


----------



## CraigQQ

jay_bmw said:


> No - i haven't got to an M3 yet, being 23, insurance is an issue. hell i might just buy a QQ and accept defeat.


well it is cheap insurance :lol:



jay_bmw said:


> Yeah, a nissan Primera is what i should go for eh?


nah there ugly as sin :lol:


----------



## gex23

RussZS said:


> Lol!
> 
> I'm buying a FRENCH car!!


Good lad! (I'm back in a RenaultSport now, and boy have I missed the marque:thumb

Just don't look at the reliability survey a few pages back


----------



## Ryan_W

RussZS said:


> Lol!
> 
> I'm buying a FRENCH car!!


AX GTi FTW!

I had 2 of them when I first started driving, one track one road! Haha.....

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


----------



## CraigQQ

RussZS said:


> Lol!
> 
> I'm buying a FRENCH car!!


oh no...

lets start the french bashing :lol:

some people are taking all this too serious tonight...(not you russ lol.. just realised i quoted your post lol)
:lol:


----------



## ITHAQVA

RussZS said:


> Lol!
> 
> I'm buying a FRENCH car!!


They get so much stick, but i see so many old Peugeots down here in Cornwall, very popular amongst the rural community. I like the 406 styling, there i admit it


----------



## jay_bmw

Meh, i hate arguing with people.

At the end of the day, everyone has their own opinions, i am 'wet behind the ears' as they say, i've had Jap cars, very well put together an never go wrong but i jus found my love with BMW's.

They might not be the best car in the world but i love them and its a personal choice, i don't find the seats uncomfortable nor is it unreliable, 

Lets just agree to disagree, every car has its merits and i won't argue that if reliability & simplicity is key then Jap cars suit you down to the ground.

I like this forum and the fact that people are generally helpful & kind to eachother, lets not all fall out over a choice in car manufacturer. 

Jay.


----------



## RisingPower

jay_bmw said:


> Meh, i hate arguing with people.
> 
> At the end of the day, everyone has their own opinions, i am 'wet behind the ears' as they say, i've had Jap cars, very well put together an never go wrong but i jus found my love with BMW's.
> 
> They might not be the best car in the world but i love them and its a personal choice, i don't find the seats uncomfortable nor is it unreliable,
> 
> Lets just agree to disagree, every car has its merits and i won't argue that if reliability & simplicity is key then Jap cars suit you down to the ground.
> 
> I like this forum and the fact that people are generally helpful & kind to eachother, lets not all fall out over a choice in car manufacturer.
> 
> Jay.


:lol::lol::lol:

That wasn't what you were saying a few minutes ago.


----------



## Ninja59

jay_bmw said:


> Meh i give up.
> 
> OP go for a Jap car - as BMW's are **** and you'll get people like on this thread tellin you you made a bad descision.


thats not exactly what we are saying though some in here have not discredited EVERY BM.

What we are saying is look beyond that one single brand. jesus.

i know i have been guilty on here before for actions like yours, but tbh just accept that NOT EVERYONE is going to find your choice of car/transport for them after all everyone is different, has different priorities (whatever that maybe), needs etc.

just because it does not have X or Y to some they really could not give a flying F. Its all about personal choice.


----------



## gex23

jay_bmw said:


> Meh, i hate arguing with people.
> 
> At the end of the day, everyone has their own opinions, i am 'wet behind the ears' as they say, i've had Jap cars, very well put together an never go wrong but i jus found my love with BMW's.
> 
> They might not be the best car in the world but i love them and its a personal choice, i don't find the seats uncomfortable nor is it unreliable,
> 
> Lets just agree to disagree, every car has its merits and i won't argue that if reliability & simplicity is key then Jap cars suit you down to the ground.
> 
> I like this forum and the fact that people are generally helpful & kind to eachother, lets not all fall out over a choice in car manufacturer.
> 
> Jay.


That's more like it

I can't say anything, I sold my VAG car to get back into a Renault:tumbleweed:


----------



## jay_bmw

I know i got het up and defensive - its just in my nature.


----------



## jay_bmw

gex23 said:


> That's more like it
> 
> I can't say anything, I sold my VAG car to get back into a Renault:tumbleweed:


WTF> sell up now and buy a bmw.

I give you three hours.


----------



## gex23

And don't go bashing Renaults (in any sense of the word:doublesho)

..... or i'll have to both poorly film and post a video of a speedo run to prove my point - whatever that may be


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Tbf, I've not had many cars, only a Fiesta Zetec-S, ST, Clio 197, Megane 230 then the Golf Edition 30.

Whilst I appreciate the solid doors and lovely interior plastics of the Golf, it is a bit lacking in soul. It's competent and efficient but it feels like it was designed by a robot, not a crazed frenchman.

The Fiesta's were okay, but nowt special.

Both of the Renault's just had 'something' special about them, and despite them falling apart on me, I loved them!

That said, I haven't gone Jap yet, and still have this itch....

I know it's not the quickest, and the looks are very personal, but I bet it's a lot more fun than a lot of motors out there!

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3122596.htm

The problem we all have is that everything is getting boring and refined... Look at an EvoX against something like a VI, the rawness has gone


----------



## Ninja59

gex23 said:


> And don't go bashing Renaults (in any sense of the word:doublesho)
> 
> ..... or i'll have to both poorly film and post a video of a speedo run to prove my point - whatever that may be


a 2cv round oulton park...:lol:


----------



## jay_bmw

gex23 said:


> Three HOURS?
> 
> You're optimistic about its reliability


Aye, it might take you three hours to get your renault started


----------



## gex23

RussZS said:


> Both of the Renault's just had 'something' special about them, and despite them falling apart on me, I loved them!


My 172 cup never fell apart ..... until I wrote it off:driver:


----------



## gex23

jay_bmw said:


> Aye, it might take you three hours to get your renault started


Keyless entry > Push button start

More like 3 seconds


----------



## RisingPower

RussZS said:


> Tbf, I've not had many cars, only a Fiesta Zetec-S, ST, Clio 197, Megane 230 then the Golf Edition 30.
> 
> Whilst I appreciate the solid doors and lovely interior plastics of the Golf, it is a bit lacking in soul. It's competent and efficient but it feels like it was designed by a robot, not a crazed frenchman.
> 
> The Fiesta's were okay, but nowt special.
> 
> Both of the Renault's just had 'something' special about them, and despite them falling apart on me, I loved them!
> 
> That said, I haven't gone Jap yet, and still have this itch....
> 
> I know it's not the quickest, and the looks are very personal, but I bet it's a lot more fun than a lot of motors out there!
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3122596.htm
> 
> The problem we all have is that everything is getting boring and refined... Look at an EvoX against something like a VI, the rawness has gone


Oh crumbs, not this again :lol:

Just fricking try it  We've already had this discussion 10000000 times 

In your budget, there really are skyline r34s. I'd be trying one, if you don't mind the..... very high maintenance costs.


----------



## Ninja59

RisingPower said:


> Oh crumbs, not this again :lol:
> 
> Just fricking try it  We've already had this discussion 10000000 times
> 
> In your budget, there really are skyline r34s. I'd be trying one, if you don't mind the..... very high maintenance costs.


well least this time it is contained in one thread.


----------



## ITHAQVA

Ninja59 said:


> what are you on tonight? i want some...your coming out with these one liners and i am nearly falling on the ground.


Im all silly :lol: Mate if i can bring a bit of happines to the forum im happy too :thumb:


----------



## gex23

Ninja59 said:


> a 2cv round oulton park...:lol:


Hey there's nothing wrong with 2CVs - I think

Still got the looks compared to a 135:lol:

/ joke.


----------



## jay_bmw

For info RisingPower, 

I think the 350z is a damn fine looking car, even more so than an M3, but for me cars are about driving - i love the driving position of the e46. 

I had an e92 325i and i thought it was bland and BMW have started getting a bit boring (YES I SAID IT) i love the e46, the way it looks , the fact that parts are relativley cheap and i know people who can work on them,

I like the way my car looks now and i appreciate it migth not be to your taste but i think they are good all round cars


----------



## jay_bmw

gex23 said:


> Keyless entry > Push button start
> 
> More like 3 seconds


Push button start still working then


----------



## ITHAQVA

jay_bmw said:


> Aye, it might take you three hours to get your renault started


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## gex23

jay_bmw said:


> Push button start still working then


Yes! Even Renault managed to get that part right!

Oh and M3 CSL > God.


----------



## Ninja59

jay_bmw said:


> Push button start still working then


yeah once hes found where the flipping button itself went last...:lol:

as for the 2cv round oulton they are funny.

out marshaling for 1/2 day tomorrow its Gold Cup w'end at oulton for any reasonably interested :lol:


----------



## Ryan_W

I would have been ALL over this:

http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3092391.htm


----------



## CraigQQ

jay_bmw said:


> For info RisingPower,
> 
> I think the 350z is a damn fine looking car, even more so than an M3, but for me cars are about driving - i love the driving position of the e46.
> 
> I had an e92 325i and i thought it was bland and BMW have started getting a bit boring (YES I SAID IT) i love the e46, the way it looks , the fact that parts are relativley cheap and i know people who can work on them,
> 
> I like the way my car looks now and i appreciate it migth not be to your taste but i think they are good all round cars


:lol: if you said that to begin with, then we wouldn't have had a 10 page 'arguement' and missed all ITHAQVAs one liners...

that'd be a disaster :lol:

guess everyones different as i prefer the styling of the new ones.. but you obviously prefer the old styling(e46)

the 350z is a girls car.. thats why RP has it.. :lol: (fuel to the fire :lol
i almost bought a 370 as said earlier.. but as fun as it was, the insurance was extreme at 21 years old, and it wasn't a daily driver imo (not with my bad back, hip, knee and ankle :lol
like my leather armchair on wheels of a nissan/datsun or as ninja loving calls them, Danault, datsun/renault


----------



## RisingPower

jay_bmw said:


> For info RisingPower,
> 
> I think the 350z is a damn fine looking car, even more so than an M3, but for me cars are about driving - i love the driving position of the e46.
> 
> I had an e92 325i and i thought it was bland and BMW have started getting a bit boring (YES I SAID IT) i love the e46, the way it looks , the fact that parts are relativley cheap and i know people who can work on them,
> 
> I like the way my car looks now and i appreciate it migth not be to your taste but i think they are good all round cars


I did drive my M3. Around brands.

It could fairly easily keep up with an elise/cayman s.

Was I enjoying it? I still can't be sure. When you're in constant fear of something expensive breaking and all that weight, it's just not up there with the elise for me. Any chance to flaunt some photos of something :lol::lol:


























There's quite a nice looking m3 in imola red around here, much prefer it to the gunmetal grey I had. But I couldn't live with the rasp in the end.


----------



## gex23

Ryan_W said:


> I would have been ALL over this:
> 
> http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3092391.htm


Those wheels make me want to vomit.


----------



## jay_bmw

RisingPower said:


> I did drive my M3. Around brands.
> 
> There's quite a nice looking m3 in imola red around here, much prefer it to the gunmetal grey I had. But I couldn't live with the rasp in the end.


At least we can agree on something, Imola Red is for winners.


----------



## CraigQQ

jay_bmw said:


> Aye, it might take you three hours to get your renault started


:lol:
it took me 45 minutes to start a morris minor... starting handle kick back is a barsteward!!!
just about broke my  wrists!!


----------



## Ryan_W

Or this, 400bhp...

http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3002987.htm


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Imola Red is the only colour to get an E46 in - its stunning!!


----------



## RisingPower

jay_bmw said:


> At least we can agree on something, Imola Red is for winners.


It also has anthracite/black rims, been nicely lowered. Anyways, see above pictures of mine in gray.

Parts for the m3 were anything but cheap.


----------



## jay_bmw

Wow i'm acutally suprised how cheap 8p audi S3's are, some are around £4k!!!


----------



## Ryan_W

jay_bmw said:


> Wow i'm acutally suprised how cheap 8p audi S3's are, some are around £4k!!!


No they're not... The 8L S3's like mine are as low as £3k...


----------



## Ben_ZS

Can I say something?

My MK7 Fiesta Zetec-S TDCi tax is £30 a year and group 4 insurance, it gets me to work and the gym and back, and I've always got LOOOOADDDSS of money left over for other nice things. 

All this and I was keeping pace with a Nissan R35 the other day in a traffic jam. :thumb:


----------



## RedUntilDead

Cadillacman said:


> That's not my experience... I've owned American cars since 1988 and I find parts are easily available.
> If ordering from the USA, usually takes about 3 to 4 working days delivered to your door.
> If you go via a dealer in this country though, it could be a different story and they will charge you silly money.


You find that acceptable for a daily driver:tumbleweed:
Most poeple I have dealt with kick off if their car isnt returned the same day, and rightly so in most cases!

sorry to take it off topic but it should be considered


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Ben_ZS said:


> Can I say something?
> 
> My MK7 Fiesta Zetec-S TDCi tax is £30 a year and group 4 insurance, it gets me to work and the gym and back, and I've always got LOOOOADDDSS of money left over for other nice things.
> 
> All this and I was keeping pace with a Nissan R35 the other day in a traffic jam. :thumb:


Indeed, but I've spoilt myself now


----------



## Mick

Thread now cleaned up, and will be moved back into Motoring section shortly.

Can we try and remain on topic for the OP please, if you wish to start another topic, can you start a new thread In The Relevant Section.

Thanks :thumb:


----------



## OvlovMike

RedUntilDead said:


> You find that acceptable for a daily driver:tumbleweed:
> Most poeple I have dealt with kick off if their car isnt returned the same day, and rightly so in most cases!
> 
> sorry to take it off topic but it should be considered


Russ has already suggested he'd get something **** as a daily driver...


----------



## Ben_ZS

RussZS said:


> Indeed, but I've spoilt myself now


I know mate you have indeed, and now you're spoilt for choice.

That comment I made was for the argument last night really, I know you like the Fiestas but you've gone to far now to come back. :lol:

I was looking at an Arden Blue Astra VXR last night as my insurance has come down alot for my renewal. I can't bring myself to do it though as I know I would start chasing performance and wanting more all the time. My Fiesta is so cheap to run and stuff that I keep thinking I would be a fool to change it.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3166755.htm


----------



## OvlovMike

It's not that you need to worry about in a Disastra, it's which tree is going to be the one that kills you.


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Got to agree on the VXR's, the handling is dire compared to something like an R26.

The Golf is somewhere in the middle.

How did you rate your Pirelli Mike?


----------



## OvlovMike

I liked it, but as you have found if you're pushing really, really hard you start to lose your rag with it because it's just too 'safe' a bias.

It really sounds like you're trying to talk yourself into something like the Focus. They're just a bit ASBO, no factory road car should have exhausts THAT big or a spoiler like that. You just look like a ***.

The problem - as I said - with the E46 M3 is because of their price they've become somewhat of a 'bargain' performance car, but everyone I know with one (with no exception!) rarely goes anywhere for lack of funds because 'x' has broken and it's gonna cost 'y', or it's the big service this time so it's going to be 'y' hundreds of pounds. And all of them want to change it, but can't afford to because they bought them a bit more dear than they are now! Same with my S4, it was just hideous to keep on top of maintenance - when I sold it, I thought it was sound as a pound. Guy who bought it spent £2,500 on it getting more of it sorted, although it has inherited a shedload more power for it.

Have a look on C30World or something, see if there's anyone local with a T5 with some stuff on it to take you out for a hoon. Out of the box, they're like a classier, slightly less direct-feeling Focus - and that's the only gripe I have with it. The Focus is getting on for R26 levels of driver involvement, and the C30, despite sharing a good deal of componentry, is ever so slightly less involved. Still monumental levels of grip - Lou's C30 has miles more raw grip than my old Edition 30, and that's in an oil burner! It's not to everyone's tastes, and you may end up back at the Renault door, but it's more sensible than running two cars (believe me, I tried it!) and they're silly cheap now for what you get. If you're not in a hurry, pick a MY2009 motor up with the HDD **** nav and Premium (Dynaudio) sound system. Most seem to have the Xenons anyway, and usually do by the time you get the options I list. Rest of it is fairly easy to bolt on. I was having a read, and apparently they're that closely related that one of the ST's exhausts fit straight on one of the C30s (not sure whether facelifted on either count) and the tails even sit in the cutouts...

If you don't like it, you don't like it but it's very Focus to drive without the nasty Ford interior or ASBO exterior, does 40+mpg on the motorway if you're good and it doesn't cost the earth to get close on for 300bhp but with more torque than your Edition 30 has. It's never going to beat an M3 on a flat out drive, but I hate the E46 (in fact, most BMW interiors - their exteriors are new but I'm certain they look at a 90s design book for the dash!) and I just think they're prohibitive to run. And whilst you may be able to afford it, you'll feel sick hemorrhaging money every five minutes as there's no escaping it's initial purchase price and it's maintenance costs.

I do hope they make this. I will sell a kidney, a testicle, a lung and I'll even start breeding with the Mrs and sell those on eBay to buy one:


----------



## RisingPower

Ben_ZS said:


> I know mate you have indeed, and now you're spoilt for choice.
> 
> That comment I made was for the argument last night really, I know you like the Fiestas but you've gone to far now to come back. :lol:
> 
> I was looking at an Arden Blue Astra VXR last night as my insurance has come down alot for my renewal. I can't bring myself to do it though as I know I would start chasing performance and wanting more all the time. My Fiesta is so cheap to run and stuff that I keep thinking I would be a fool to change it.
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3166755.htm


Dare I say it, I kind of like your fiesta :doublesho:lol:

I wouldn't have an astra vxr, can't see the appeal of them personally.

Russ, come back in 6 months and let us know what your next choice will be after this one


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## RisingPower

OvlovMike said:


> I liked it, but as you have found if you're pushing really, really hard you start to lose your rag with it because it's just too 'safe' a bias.
> 
> It really sounds like you're trying to talk yourself into something like the Focus. They're just a bit ASBO, no factory road car should have exhausts THAT big or a spoiler like that. You just look like a ***.
> 
> The problem - as I said - with the E46 M3 is because of their price they've become somewhat of a 'bargain' performance car, but everyone I know with one (with no exception!) rarely goes anywhere for lack of funds because 'x' has broken and it's gonna cost 'y', or it's the big service this time so it's going to be 'y' hundreds of pounds. And all of them want to change it, but can't afford to because they bought them a bit more dear than they are now! Same with my S4, it was just hideous to keep on top of maintenance - when I sold it, I thought it was sound as a pound. Guy who bought it spent £2,500 on it getting more of it sorted, although it has inherited a shedload more power for it.
> 
> Have a look on C30World or something, see if there's anyone local with a T5 with some stuff on it. Out of the box, they're like a classier, slightly less direct-feeling Focus - and that's the only gripe I have with it. The Focus is getting on for R26 levels of driver involvement, and the C30, despite sharing a good deal of componentry, is ever so slightly less involved. Still monumental levels of grip - Lou's C30 has miles more raw grip than my old Edition 30, and that's in an oil burner!
> 
> It's not to everyone's tastes, and you may end up back at the Renault door, but it's more sensible than running two cars (believe me, I tried it!) and they're silly cheap now for what you get. If you're not in a hurry, pick a MY2009 motor up with the HDD **** nav and Premium (Dynaudio) sound system. Most seem to have the Xenons anyway, and usually do by the time you get the options I list. Rest of it is fairly easy to bolt on.
> 
> I was having a read, and apparently they're that closely related that one of the ST's exhausts fit straight on one of the C30s (not sure whether facelifted on either count) and the tails even sit in the cutouts...


Skyline r34 has a pretty big spoiler? Also, there are production road cars like the ultima and zondas.

Bit of a generalisation imo.

Inspection 2 was a bit expensive, unless you went to a proper bmw specialist and not a dealer.

C30, yes, ninja drives one 

Honestly, I think russ needs to try RWD or 4WD. There's imho only so far you can go with FWD.


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## MidlandsCarCare

I think if I stick with FWD, then it's going to be FD2 or Megane 250 with Cup Suspension

I was looking at an M-Sport BMW 1 Series today (123D) and it did nothing for me whatsoever styling wise 

I think I'd rather a 335i, but its a bit of an old mans car 

I just wish the Golf handled better. The interior and power is great, but the handling isn't involving... 

Handling is top of my list.


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## Ben_ZS

RussZS said:


> Got to agree on the VXR's, the handling is dire compared to something like an R26.
> 
> The Golf is somewhere in the middle.
> 
> How did you rate your Pirelli Mike?


I have heard of people saying about the handling, I do love the look of them though. It was between that or an EP3 but the EP3 wouldn't be cheap to get passed 240BHP.



RisingPower said:


> Dare I say it, I kind of like your fiesta :doublesho:lol:
> 
> I wouldn't have an astra vxr, can't see the appeal of them personally.
> 
> Russ, come back in 6 months and let us know what your next choice will be after this one


Nothing wrong with liking a Fiesta  To be honest it's no supercar but I do get a few head turns especially when it's clean.

I will have to get some more pictures when I clean it next as it's been lowered since I last posted pictures of it. Sits just noice now.


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## RisingPower

RussZS said:


> I think if I stick with FWD, then it's going to be FD2 or Megane 250 with Cup Suspension
> 
> I was looking at an M-Sport BMW 1 Series today (123D) and it did nothing for me whatsoever styling wise
> 
> I think I'd rather a 335i, but its a bit of an old mans car
> 
> I just wish the Golf handled better. The interior and power is great, but the handling isn't involving...
> 
> Handling is top of my list.


If handling is top of your list, get something light and involving.

Thing is, light generally means 2 people 

I don't think there's a single car where I felt that I'd never run out of grip aside from an elise, but they don't have much power in the top end at all.

RWD is for me, a handling must. Sure, you could fling the ctr around like nothing else, but RWD is so much more fun.


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## RisingPower

Ben_ZS said:


> I have heard of people saying about the handling, I do love the look of them though. It was between that or an EP3 but the EP3 wouldn't be cheap to get passed 240BHP.


I thought it wasn't too expensive? K-pro, exhaust, few other add ons?

Though, tbh, it struggled putting down 200. You just don't need that much power through the front, especially without an lsd.


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## OvlovMike

RussZS said:


> I think if I stick with FWD, then it's going to be FD2 or Megane 250 with Cup Suspension
> 
> I was looking at an M-Sport BMW 1 Series today (123D) and it did nothing for me whatsoever styling wise
> 
> I think I'd rather a 335i, but its a bit of an old mans car
> 
> I just wish the Golf handled better. The interior and power is great, but the handling isn't involving...
> 
> Handling is top of my list.


I think you're always going to be fighting a losing battle then, my friend. You'll go and buy the FD2, and hate it's excess bulk as it doesn't hide it as well as the Renault does. So you'll actually buy the Renault. Then sell it in 12 months (at a push!) because you're sick of **** falling off it. Probably for another Golf, and then buy something you can **** around in.

IMO, if you're going to do the whole 2 car thing then stick with your Golf, or a C30, or a Focus ST, or an R26, and buy something like an MX-5 or even better a Caterham with something simple like a Ford Crossflow. Cheap as taking a dump, easy to put back together and you aren't afraid to take it on trackdays and get gravel rash, because you can just sand it down and paint it Halfwits Matt Black or something.


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## OvlovMike

Trouble with cars like an M3, or an RS4, or anything big and exotic is you want to take it on a trackday to 'get the most out of it'. And the chances are, if you bought it 3rd or 4th hand, at nearly a quarter of what it retailed at, you don't have the 'spare change' to put it back together again.

Buy something cheap and ****, like a Caterham, or an MX-5, or a Westie and learn how to drive on a track in that - knowing that whatever happens, you can put it back together again because the majority of it is made of old bits of normal cars.


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## RisingPower

OvlovMike said:


> Trouble with cars like an M3, or an RS4, or anything big and exotic is you want to take it on a trackday to 'get the most out of it'. And the chances are, if you bought it 3rd or 4th hand, at nearly a quarter of what it retailed at, you don't have the 'spare change' to put it back together again.
> 
> Buy something cheap and ****, like a Caterham, or an MX-5, or a Westie and learn how to drive on a track in that - knowing that whatever happens, you can put it back together again because the majority of it is made of old bits of normal cars.


Exactly :lol: Don't buy a car which may have been £60k new and not have the funds to repair it when something bad happens at a track day.

Besides, cars like them are so heavy and feel that and underpowered round tracks.


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## OvlovMike

Absolutely. Used to be able to keep tabs on an E46 M3 in my old Clios (182 and a 255 V6) at Donington because he was too scared to bend it and it just had too much weight for him to feel comfortable throwing it around. There's no doubt that it's a good road car, but unless you've got a big private road or don't mind Bubba investigating your anus after you drop the soap then you won't be able to explore that on the road, in the same way as you do a Civic for it's roadholding and handling at more normal speeds, or in a Golf by burying the pedal for the motorway sliproad drag race.


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## RisingPower

OvlovMike said:


> Absolutely. Used to be able to keep tabs on an E46 M3 in my old Clios (182 and a 255 V6) at Donington because he was too scared to bend it and it just had too much weight for him to feel comfortable throwing it around. There's no doubt that it's a good road car, but unless you've got a big private road or don't mind Bubba investigating your anus after you drop the soap then you won't be able to explore that on the road, in the same way as you do a Civic for it's roadholding and handling at more normal speeds, or in a Golf by burying the pedal for the motorway sliproad drag race.


The more amusing thing was, a ford ka had me on every corner at brands :lol:

It's just not a track car and there were so many lighter things which I couldn't keep up with :lol:


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## OvlovMike

Lol.

I do miss my Exige for trackday laughs, but at £15k to put right if I threw it slowly into the gravel and buggered the clams, I couldn't bring myself to push very hard. And it was pathetic on the road, not enough weight to stop it bouncing and subsequently massively understeering.






God I miss that noise.


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## s3 rav

How about c63 Amg. They are dropping on price.


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## OvlovMike

And cost a million pounds if something significant cops a strop.


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## MidlandsCarCare

I just bought an RCD510 for the Golf, lol!

It is still going though!


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## Ben_ZS

RussZS said:


> I just bought an RCD510 for the Golf, lol!
> 
> It is still going though!


You're insane Russ! :lol:


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## SteveyG

ITHAQVA said:


> I cant seem to like the front ends of the mercs, agree why have four doors, two doors, less is more


Why? Two door cars are a PITA. I'll never buy one again as people always scuff the bottom of the seat and they're just generally impractical.


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## Mick

now moved back to the Motoring section. . .

as you were :thumb:


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## robertdon777

Did you try the r32?

No BMW or Audi available will feel as chuckable as the R26, personally i,d go S3 but my main priority is an overall package


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## MidlandsCarCare

robertdon777 said:


> Did you try the r32?
> 
> No BMW or Audi available will feel as chuckable as the R26, personally i,d go S3 but my main priority is an overall package


Yeah, felt heavy and slow compared to my Meg. I liked the traction and the noise, but not much more tbh!

S3 isn't a bad shout as an overall package. I'm more confused than ever.

I'm putting some ARB's on the Golf to see what that does. If it's not much better then I'll go test drive everything!


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## ant_s

Tbh Russ I'd say S3, they seem to have the best balance of everything.

Or there's a Lexus Is220D in Slate grey? lol


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## amiller

Suprisingly, I thought the S3 (I had a 57 plate) to be a totally differnt drive to the Mk5 Gti (200bhp one though). Brakes are bigger on the S3, but still not terrific. 

You wont get better handeling for the money than an R26 or even an R27 with aftermarket suspension.

If it were me, I would go rear wheel drive and have some fun. :thumb:


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## MidlandsCarCare

amiller said:


> Suprisingly, I thought the S3 (I had a 57 plate) to be a totally differnt drive to the Mk5 Gti (200bhp one though). Brakes are bigger on the S3, but still not terrific.
> 
> You wont get better handeling for the money than an R26 or even an R27 with aftermarket suspension.
> 
> If it were me, I would go rear wheel drive and have some fun. :thumb:


How would you compare the two? A lot of people say the GTI is more 'fun' to drive


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## OvlovMike

S3 has worse understeer issues than your Golf, unless it's broke. Always found my mates to be terrible for that. And both of us prefer the Golf interior - whilst I accept it'll be subjective, both of us thought the Golf was more pleasant.


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## robertdon777

Yeah, don't think an S3 would suit what Russ is after, I was just referring to what would suit me as an upgrade from a Hot Hatch.

I think a Meg 250 is worth a punt for a year or two, I don't think moving up to an M3, RS4 would give you what you need, more speed - well your Golf wouldn't be left by either in a straight drag, better handling?

Handling is a term banded about a lot but in reality it means how adjustable a car is on and around its limits, more weight = a compromise. An R26 might not grip so well as a RS4 but it will always feel better to fling around some corners.


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## robertdon777

OvlovMike said:


> S3 has worse understeer issues than your Golf, unless it's broke. Always found my mates to be terrible for that. And both of us prefer the Golf interior - whilst I accept it'll be subjective, both of us thought the Golf was more pleasant.


No doubt, everyone that drives them will always say the MK5 Gti, Leon Cupra/FR, VRS will feel more lively and agile than the S3.

But 360bhp is so easy in that engine, and then you really need 4WD or RWD


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## 335dAND110XS

RWD really is a lot of fun be it in an older Transit or a Ferrari!

I plan never to have a FWD car again, having had many.

The current S3 is very nippy - not to be underestimated.


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## robertdon777

335dAND110XS said:


> RWD really is a lot of fun be it in an older Transit or a Ferrari!
> 
> I plan never to have a FWD car again, having had many.
> 
> The current S3 is very nippy - not to be underestimated.


Yeah, you wouldn't go go-karting in a FWD one!

Saying that FWD can be very good on the road, like an R26 or even something as basic as Ford KA's (original), Pumas and most Fiesta's are all very well set up road cars that embarass many RWD cars in terms of feel and flingability.

I think the S3 would be a good move if it's speed and Grip that Russ wants but it won't feel half as good as any Renault hot hatch for feel and fun factor.


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## Ryan_W

Coming from an S3 owner, albeit an old 8L chassis, they're great cars and don't really handle like a boring 4WD car. Once the haldex controller is upgraded, they tend to drive more like a RWD car with a little help from the front (make sense?)...

I took the new S3 (8P) out for a spin a few months ago. Again, great handling cars but standard, with only 265bhp, it felt a bit boggish. I have no doubt, with a stg 1 remap and 310bhp, it would be a completely different car!

With the Audi, you're getting a luxury, executive car also, not some boy racer type Focus RS


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## robertdon777

I'd have one over a Focus RS all day long, I prefer the ST to the RS. The RS is just too loud (not decibels) for anyone over 30 imho.

If I was 21 with 25K though it would be an RS over an S3


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## OvlovMike

Audi S3 as a luxury executive car... FLOL!

Just look at the A3. Always 1.6, occasionally the diesel, always basemodel with cloth interior. Full of wannabes, not 'executives'. They drive Jags. And Mercs. Or maybe an A6. The S3 is just a reasonable hot hatch, but it's not even in the same league as a Focus RS or Megane 250. The S3 is miserable to drive in comparison, standard for standard - far too conservative and the interior is nearly as old as Ming. Golf R knocks spots off it IMHO. It's for those with more money than sense, or who want a 4WD Golf GTI with a slightly more boring interior.

My opinion, which I'm entitled to, but if Russ doesn't like the 'handling' (someone mentioned grip, this is different!) of his Golf then the S3 is going to have him hanging by a rope. The Focus and Megane run rings around the Audi in this regard, and I don't think there's a single journo out there that would disagree...


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## Ninja59

OvlovMike said:


> Audi S3 as a luxury executive car... FLOL!
> 
> Just look at the A3. Always 1.6, occasionally the diesel, always basemodel with cloth interior. Full of wannabes, not 'executives'. They drive Jags. And Mercs. Or maybe an A6. The S3 is just a reasonable hot hatch, but it's not even in the same league as a Focus RS or Megane 250. The S3 is miserable to drive in comparison, standard for standard - far too conservative and the interior is nearly as old as Ming. Golf R knocks spots off it IMHO. It's for those with more money than sense, or who want a 4WD Golf GTI with a slightly more boring interior.
> 
> My opinion, which I'm entitled to, but if Russ doesn't like the 'handling' (someone mentioned grip, this is different!) of his Golf then the S3 is going to have him hanging by a rope. The Focus and Megane run rings around the Audi in this regard, and I don't think there's a single journo out there that would disagree...


Ming could be slightly offended by that Mike...:lol:but i doubt it....probably something along the lines of Ming the OAP...


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## 335dAND110XS

A great FWD car is a lot of fun; I am still a huge fan of the mk1 Focus ST170 (better IMO than the nose heavy mk2 ST) and the Puma as well as the mk1 Mini Cooper S (my Dad has one) and other FWD cars and of course the R26.R is utterly stinking around a track and punches WAY above it's weight on lap times but I just hate torque steer, I hate spinning out of junctions, I hate major understeer, I don't like the fundamental "wrongness" of powering and steering the same wheels. Old fashioned of course but hey ho, at 36, I'm almost middle aged.

I tested the old S3 when deciding what hatch to get and the R32 Golf (mk4) was a far more fun drivers car BUT the newer S3 appears to be a lot more capable. I like it's Q car appeal - it's almost invisible yet can scare off plenty of shoutier kit like the plastic RC car lookalike RS.


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