# Audi RS4 - Mean & Moodie Black - Take 2!



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Following a recommendation from the previous RS4 that Gordon and I detailed, the owner of this RS4 booked in with myself, Gordon and Davy - the "Scottish A-Team" (used to love that show! :lol::lol - for an exterior detail of his car.

This detail was actually carried out last weekend, but I've been away drinking (sorry, learning Physics!! - I meant to say learning!!) in Frankfurt this week so haven't had much online time 

The car on arrival was as you'd expect - general road grime, which would need to be cleaned off before we could really assess the paint. The car on arrival:




























Fair share of swirls you can see already though!



















The car was washed in preparation for paint correction. Wheels with Bilberry, arches and tyres with G101, prefoam and rinse and then washed using Zaino Z7 and two bucket wash method. Rinsed off and dried and the car was already looking much better...



















Under the sunlight, however, it is clear to see that the finish is covered in general swirls...





































The boot was the worst panel on the car...










More on that later 

The car was rolled into the unit, clayed and readied for polishing.

We decided to start on the bonnet...




























Also some deeper RDS...



















Lets have a closer look at these scratches, shall we  ... Out with the microscope, as Gordon has been shopping again - he's a bit like Q, gadget for everything! :lol::lol:



















Useful for really seeing the severity of the mark however, and you can see here that the scratch is actually just fractured clearcoat, and a lot of this can be removed by "deburring" which rounds the edge of the mark and fully removed then by reducing the thickness... couple of microsciope images of the scratch:



















Our task now was to machine polish these marks out, which you may think would require heavy compounding on an Audi... but before jumping in with anything aggressive we start with a light cutting combo and assess the paint, both the correction achieved and the removal rates. Average thicknesses recorded on test spots, and re-measured (at constant temperature, monitored by IR thermometer) after each polishing set to assess the amount of paint removed, highly important when this is the observed thickness around the RDS...










:doublesho

Great!

Test section av thickness: 78.4 +/- 0.5um

So out with 106FA Final Finish on a white Chemical Guys Hexlogic Polishing pad, applied using the standard Zenith point technique as follows:


Spread at 600rpm, light pressure and slow to medium machine movements to spread the polish
Begin aorking at 1200rpm, light pressure and slow to moderate passes until the residue evenly spread
Work at 1800rpm, light to moderate head pressure, increasing to heavy and then back through to light as the residue goes clear. Movement speed slow with fast sets inbetween the pin panel temperatures...
Refine at 1200rpm, light pressure and slow machine movements for a couple of passes

Max panel temp reached during set: 60.1degC.

Results... the RDS were still not removed, but reduced slightly (deburred, taking the whiteness away), and significant removal of the swirls as well:




























Panel thickness after set: 79.5 +/- 1.2um

You may think its gone up, but this is simply showing little or no paint removed, amount removed inside the readings errors... With this in mind, I stepped up the cutting combo to Menzerna PO85RD3.02 Intensive Polish on a Hexlogic White. Applied using the standard Zenith Point technique as described...


Spread at 600rpm, light pressure and slow to medium machine movements to spread the polish
Begin aorking at 1200rpm, light pressure and slow to moderate passes until the residue evenly spread
Work at 1800rpm, light to moderate head pressure, increasing to heavy and then back through to light as the residue goes clear. Movement speed slow with fast sets inbetween the pin panel temperatures...
Refine at 1200rpm, light pressure and slow machine movements for a couple of passes

Max panel temp during set: 57.3degC (less than Final Finish, interesting )

Results after show better removal of the RDS, full removal of the swirls, but still not perfect...




























Thickness after this set: 79.0um

So still very little paint removed, pointing to this finish being quite hard and falling into the traditional Audi category - interesting to see how litlte paint needs to be removed for swirl correction, though 

To step thing to the next level, I went for a Green heavy polishing hexlogic pad to bring the cut up a wee bit, and changed to a Regenerating technique for the polish application, as follows:


Spread at 600rpm, light pressure and slow to medium machine movements to spread the polish
Begin working at 1200rpm, light pressure and slow to moderate passes until the residue evenly spread
Work at 1800rpm, moderate head pressure, increasing to heavy and then back through to light as the residue goes clear.
Reduce speed to 1200rpm, slow passes with light pressure until residue "come back" with cooling panel temp
Increase back to 1800rpm, moderate to heavy pressure and slow machine movements until residue clear again
Refine at 1200rpm

The additional work time from IP allows LSP ready finishing on polishing pads, matching 85RD in my experience, and on heavier polishing pads a little extra cut from the abrasives. You can tell the polish is being worked harder...

Max panel temp during set: 86.1degC

And the results, now much better indeed:




























Its still not quite perfect though and given the current thickness is still reading 79um, indicating very low removal rates, we took the decision to step up to 3M Fast Cut Plus on selected areas for full removal. This decision was taken based on the observed removal rates, as without this info, it would be impossible to really know what an aggressive compound would do! FC+ was applied as follows, purely for correction:


Spread at 600rpm
Begin working at 1200rpm, light pressure to get residue evenly spread
Work at 2000rpm, moderate head pressure and medium to fast machine passes to keep panel temps low

Highest panel temp recorded during set: 60.2degC.

Results... better, even perfect :




























Just needs refined 

Paint thickness of 76.2um now, so overall removal from the testing and correction was just a couple of microns, safe even on this thinner paint.

Having assessed the paint, we now had the techniques for correcting the car. Paint correction was either Intensive Polish, or 3M Fast Cut applied as follows:

*Intensive Polish*

Spread at 600rpm, light pressure and slow to medium machine movements to spread the polish
Begin working at 1200rpm, light pressure and slow to moderate passes until the residue evenly spread
Work at 1800rpm, moderate head pressure, increasing to heavy and then back through to light as the residue goes clear.
Reduce speed to 1200rpm, slow passes with light pressure until residue "come back" with cooling panel temp
Increase back to 1800rpm, moderate to heavy pressure and slow machine movements until residue clear again
Refine at 1200rpm

*Fast Cut Plus*

Spread at 600rpm
Begin working at 1200rpm, light pressure to get residue evenly spread
Work at 2000rpm, moderate head pressure and medium to fast machine passes to keep panel temps low

And refining was carried out using my favourite finishing polish - Meguiars #205, using a Double Zenith technique was follows:


Spread at 600rpm
Begin working at 1200rpm, light pressure and slow machine movements
Work at 1500rpm, moderate head pressure and slow machine movements, changing to light pressure and faster movements as polish oils go clearer
Refine at 1200rpm, light machine pressure and slow passes, for three or four passes
Burnish at 900rpm, supporting the weight of the rotary, slow passes

Typical refining set time was four to five minutes, but the above method really does get a lot out of #205, and delivers a lot for the finish. 

General before pics...




































































































And after polishing shots...


























































































































































With time wearing on, we decided to roll the car out at circa 8pm - sides, bonnet and roof machine polishes (bumpers and bonnet not) to allow for some daylight pics of the work in progress to give you an idea of the machine finish in daylight...









































































Back inside, time to finish off  You may remember I mentioned the boot at the start, for being the worst panel... well, I wasn't joking! Under the strip lights you can see all the deep marks...























































A paint map of the bootlid area before...










Correction was Fast Cut Plus, two hits required for a lot of the lateral running deep marks, followed by #205 to refine, giving the paint thicknesses after to be...










Notice how the orange area has grown, ie the paint has been thinned across the panel to achieve the correction.

Worth it though, here's the afters...





































Deep enough?










Lets really assess the quality of the finish - Sun Gun:




























Happy with that 

The paintwork was protected using a high quality, durable wax that is ideal for topping off a day's hard work with a machine polisher - Meguiars #16  Damn good value too, and performance to match products ten times its price! :thumb:

Glass was cleaned with Duragloss 751, Wheels with FK1000P, tyres with CG New Look.

After shots, taken after midnight (and after a veritable feast from the local chippy, which was closing so just chucked all the remaining food in a bag for us!! Haggis, 2 sausages, steak pie, mince pie, black pudding, and a half pizza, and chips - between three of us, for a fiver )...































































































































Big thanks go to Gordon (caledonia), and Davy (badly_dubbed) for joining me and forming what I consider to be a fantastic team - great laughs, great detailing guys 

:thumb:


----------



## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

another cracking job guys - looks superb





(again )


----------



## colarado red (Jun 5, 2008)

awesome work once again


----------



## lossiechris (May 30, 2008)

holy moly... that really is DETAILing!


----------



## Bond (May 23, 2008)

Very nice work guys that's some reflection from the paint....would be interesting to see more on the microscope. Is Gordon planning a write-up?


----------



## Wozza (Mar 3, 2007)

Nice work - great results - would have been good to see an "after" microscope pic to see how the area looked when finished.


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Wozza said:


> Nice work - great results - would have been good to see an "after" microscope pic to see how the area looked when finished.


We tried that, but found it very difficult to get the exact location so the after would have been meaningless... We'll have a laser pointer set up for the next detail


----------



## -ROM- (Feb 23, 2007)

Looks good. 

As far as the microscope is concerned i can't see the practical use for it TBH.


----------



## patonbmw (Nov 23, 2008)

Detailing on another level, that is bringing technology into it!!


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Bond said:


> Very nice work guys that's some reflection from the paint....would be interesting to see more on the microscope. Is Gordon planning a write-up?


There will be a writeup following soon, as we will be using the microscope on a few details


----------



## Will-S (Jun 5, 2007)

Cracking job. You have been using Meguiars #16 a lot recently. It is a great wax though, so I can understand why.:thumb:


----------



## Guest (Sep 5, 2009)

Wow!

Thats amazing, I really enjoyed reading that. Good work guys and fantastic attention to detail :thumb:

RS4 ...mmmm one day!


----------



## Edward101 (Jun 5, 2009)

Cracking read as usual, and the final shots are great, I bet the owner was extremely pleased.


----------



## ross-1888 (Feb 22, 2009)

yeap another great detail, must say a thanks for to Gordon for allowing me to shadow and allow me to observe the masters at work


----------



## xyber (Jan 4, 2008)

looks sooo good, ive just got an S4 in the same colour and that has really made me want to get on it now and see how it looks with Gloss-it Concourso


----------



## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Brilliant work there gents :thumb:

It's write ups like this that make DW the site it is:- highly informative, educational, well written and photographed. Top notch, fellas and it's much appreciated 

Also glad to see you using Megs #16 as well as it's curently my wax of choice at the minute (and I don't see that changing for the forseeable future).

:thumb:


----------



## adam87 (Dec 11, 2008)

Top work again guys, always raising the bar!


----------



## Trist (Jun 23, 2006)

WOW, thats a great post, very interesting stuff. Looks flawless :thumb:


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

rmorgan84 said:


> Looks good.
> 
> As far as the microscope is concerned i can't see the practical use for it TBH.


It may seem "gimmicky", but being able to see a scratch at that magnification allows you to see and judge the mark. Its all about gaining information, as much as you can - there was a time I'd have openly laughed at using a microscope, but I can happily see its usefulness here, both in the quest for seeing what paint correction does up close and for keeping a very close eye on removal during a detail 

We just need to master the positioning for before and after shots - once the scratches are gone it was hard to fully line up the microscope for pics and I didn't want to post any that I wouldn't consider to be _genuine_ after pics of the same area - laser pointer will sort that out though


----------



## gj777 (Feb 16, 2008)

This really is a terrific and informative thread. The photos tell a story on their own. :thumb:


----------



## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Just thought I would add a bit more info on the scratches.
The scratch has been measure and added to the picture. sizes are in MM and 1/10ths of MM as the width goes.
It will be come very clear in the coming weeks and coarse of experiments why the microscope is a useful tool and can assisting in gauging scratches depth and defects within the paint. 

Thanks for all the kind comments. :thumb:
Gordon.


----------



## KKM (Dec 10, 2007)

Yet another great Detail..........

Well done guys

:thumb:


----------



## Rowan83 (Aug 21, 2007)

Wow, the results are amazing!!!! :argie:

How much does the 'microscope' cost?


----------



## Guest (Sep 6, 2009)

Can I ask why Megs#16 seems to be the "wax of the month" please chaps? 

Is it that good, (as a big Zaino fan), do you think I should give it a try ?


----------



## conejero (Jun 8, 2007)

Amazing job :doublesho

Very informative thread :thumb:.


----------



## shindy (Aug 9, 2009)

just got to say thanks a lot guys you done a great job on my car,the time and commitment you guys put in is unbelievable!!!!!your knowledge is also second to none ,i learnt a lot of new things in a very short space of time .

cheers guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Hi Shindy.
Glad you over the moon. This is what makes it all worth while.
Just finished another mammoth weekend and Dave's head home as we speak.
I will drop around as arrange on Tuesday.
All the best and look after that beast.
Gordon.


----------



## badly_dubbed (Dec 11, 2008)

was a top car to work on and turned out nicely 

cheers again guys for having me over


----------



## Bass-Evolution (Aug 13, 2009)

nice :thumb:


----------



## Planet Admin (Jul 11, 2009)

Looks great :thumb:


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Veedub18 said:


> Can I ask why Megs#16 seems to be the "wax of the month" please chaps?
> 
> Is it that good, (as a big Zaino fan), do you think I should give it a try ?


From my point of view, with there being so many new products in the LSP market, and so much hype with boutique this, limited run that, its really refreshing and enjoyable to return to a good old honest product that is cracking value for money and works superbly well - #16 is a cracking product, durable, easy to use, looks as good as any LSP ten times its price or more as the finish quality is all in the prep. To me, going back to "the good old waxes" is refreshing and enjoyable, and nice to be away from a whole heap of marketing hype surrounding LSPs these days.


----------



## Guest (Sep 7, 2009)

Dave KG said:


> From my point of view, with there being so many new products in the LSP market, and so much hype with boutique this, limited run that, its really refreshing and enjoyable to return to a good old honest product that is cracking value for money and works superbly well - #16 is a cracking product, durable, easy to use, looks as good as any LSP ten times its price or more as the finish quality is all in the prep. To me, going back to "the good old waxes" is refreshing and enjoyable, and nice to be away from a whole heap of marketing hype surrounding LSPs these days.


Thanks Dave, and keep up the fantastic work I really enjoy your write ups :thumb:


----------



## wes (Jan 20, 2008)

Amazing job Dave & Gordon, I learn something new everytime I read your write ups.

If you don't mind me asking, how was the paint map created(software, equipment) and is it possible to show the measurements of the different layers along the side(primer, paint, clearcoat)?


----------



## tdekany (Jul 22, 2006)

*:thumb:Just WOW!:thumb:*


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

wes said:


> Amazing job Dave & Gordon, I learn something new everytime I read your write ups.
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, how was the paint map created(software, equipment) and is it possible to show the measurements of the different layers along the side(primer, paint, clearcoat)?


Paint map was created using a standard CM8828 paint thickness gauge (measuring total thickness here), a grid was formed by using masking tape off the panel edges and the data enterred into an Excel spreadsheet to give a 2d array of numbers. Surface plot then created to give the paint map that you see. You could do with individual layers as well, but not sure how Excel would plot a 2d multiple sufrace set, sure there is a graphics package that would though


----------



## ChrisJD (Apr 15, 2009)

Gorgeous car, even better when clean.

Excellent write up, and fantastic job.

Chris.


----------



## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

Great work as normal, Always enjoy your write ups :thumb:

Cheers

PaulN


----------



## ads2k (Jul 12, 2006)

Cracking job again fella's :thumb:

Boy's with toys........... like the microscope pic's but the mapped paint depth readings is post on 

And is the AG item hanging from the rear view mirror one of your little touches :lol:


----------



## badly_dubbed (Dec 11, 2008)

nothing to do with us 

was there when the car arrived :thumb:


----------



## Phil H (May 14, 2006)

awesome stuff yet again!


----------



## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

nice work there lads


----------



## shindy (Aug 9, 2009)

great work guys thanks again:thumb:


----------



## Christian6984 (Dec 20, 2007)

superb work, some stunning reflections


----------



## 123quackers (Jan 29, 2009)

Dave what's your favorite pad to accompany your favorite finishing polish meg 205 please?

fantastic job boys big :thumb:

need to put meg 16 on me shopping list me thinks.....


----------



## Ducky (Mar 19, 2007)

Top job by all and I love the extra info with the magnifier and the paint map really helps! :thumb:


----------



## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

123quackers said:


> Dave what's your favorite pad to accompany your favorite finishing polish meg 205 please?
> 
> fantastic job boys big :thumb:
> 
> need to put meg 16 on me shopping list me thinks.....


Dave's normal pad choice for 205 up until recently was 3M Blue. He has on occasion used black hex logic. But these are both finishing pads.
Gordon.


----------



## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Quality work guys....

Loving the gadgets too!

:thumb:


----------



## Pert (Sep 7, 2009)

Sweet looking motor, want my a4 to look that clean.


----------



## Janitor (Feb 14, 2006)

Dave KG said:


> It may seem "gimmicky", but being able to see a scratch at that magnification allows you to see and judge the mark. Its all about gaining information, as much as you can - there was a time I'd have openly laughed at using a microscope, but I can happily see its usefulness here, both in the quest for seeing what paint correction does up close and for keeping a very close eye on removal during a detail


Indeed Dave - but I'm curious to know whether you found it _actually_ influenced anything you did..?

For sure you were in possession of more information / confirmation, but did you still simply splurge some polish on a pad, work it and then wipe off as you normally would have done anyway..?


----------



## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

The use of the microscope. Aid in so many ways, prior to any attempt of removal.

To give an example. You can measure the width. Take an average paint thickness readings over this area. Carry out your first set, again carry out the readings again. Then you do the calculations and the then re measure the scratch. The width of the defect will show it is narrowing. So you will be able to roughly gauge whether that scratch can be fully removed, without compromising the finish. All calculations are done on the PC displaying graphs and 2D images of the defect. This help gauge the depth of the scratch.


----------



## Kev_mk3 (Sep 10, 2007)

stunning work


----------



## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

A fabulous result, the finish on the car (and what a car!) is wholly transformed. Excellent write up, especially the detail regarding the polishing techniques. :thumb:


----------



## ALANSHR (Jun 29, 2007)

Nice job and great finish by you guy again, the silver trims on these audis are just wrong imo, they should all be black


----------



## shindy (Aug 9, 2009)

all the best for 2010!!!!!


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

shindy said:


> all the best for 2010!!!!!


Cheers mate, and to you :thumb:


----------



## gdavison (May 14, 2009)

Great work and write up ...


----------

