# is there actually any point protecting a ncb?



## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

OK so, my insurance renewal is due in about a fortnight.
Had my renewal notice come through the other day, you know the drill, a not particularly competitive price comes through, which 99% of the time can be beaten, keeping the same excess etc etc....
I have 12 years ncb but I notice my insurer now just records this as 9 years on my documents (sloppy IMO). I guess if I questioned them they would probably say they only count up to 9 yrs , and then there's no further discount offered on your premium.

So, option 1, pay extra (again) to protect my 12 years ncb. 
If I have to make a fault claim, I keep my 12 yrs ncb, although come my next renewal the insurer can still up my premium anyway as I've made a claim.

Option 2, save the money. Worse case scenario, I make a fault claim am I right that I just loose 2 yrs of ncb? So I'll be left with 10 yrs ncb. My insurer will still record this as 9 yrs , and this could still be the max ncb discount that they offer anyway. A claim is still recorded whether the ncb is protected or not.

Maybe the only way to loose out is if you have more than one fault claims made in the year? That would have to be a very unlucky year!


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

I never protect them. I always say if I'm at fault then it's my own bloody fault and should have to pay the premium for my stupidity.


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## Ben. (Sep 7, 2009)

For the sake of about £20 I always protect them. Never needed to use that protection but oh well!


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

I protect. Yeah a claim still puts premium up regardless of fault but not protected and you'll lose a couple of years ncb too. Know what you mean about insurers max ncb though. Some max at 9 others higher so if you go with a 9yr max company your renewal shows 9 even though you might be claim free for 20 years.


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

Beware of the bull with NCB.

The system counts up as a percentage discount.
1 years driving without a claim (from scratch) could give you a 20% discount to take into the new years policy.
2 years 30%
3 years 40%
4 years 50%
5 years 60%

Some insurers give 70,75 or even 80% discount if you are claim free for over 5 years.

BUT....

If you claim, and you're not protected, you lose 2 years NCB, so if you were on 5 years or over, say 60%, you would drop 2 years (or 20%) to a 3 year NCB discount, which is 40%.

If you were on 2 years, you would lose it all.

BUT... ALSO...
Even if you have NCB protection, your policy could still increase after an accident.
Because you will be seen as a higher risk driver, so if you were on MAX NCB @ 60%, you would still get 60%, but the discount would be off a higher premium.

Factor this in if you lose your no claims bonus.
Higher premium PLUS less discount.


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

If you've got 20 years no claims bonus, it sort of maxes out at 5years anyway, which is 60% (ish)

Each insurance company is likely to differ in their maximum bonuses though.
But for sure if you have 9 years, only in very exceptional circumstances, with a very limited number of insurers, would it drop to 7years.
Its almost always going to drop to 3 years.


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

James_R said:


> But for sure if you have 9 years, only in very exceptional circumstances, with a very limited number of insurers, would it drop to 7years.
> Its almost always going to drop to 3 years.


See, I've never made a fault claim, ever. 
But I've heard when you make a fault claim you don't loose all your ncb, and I googled it, and that generally said you loose two years.
Perhaps an insurer can clarify?
If you only loose two years, its pointless me protecting it


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

I never bother as its only protected with the company you are insured with...it doesn't transfer if you change companies....I get it free with my policys with Greenlight but i certainly wouldn't pay for it!


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

As per what James R says above, they key thing to look for is "Step-back scale". This is normally in your policy booklet.

As mentioned, where stepback is concerned, whilst a discount may be give for 5, 6, 7, 8 etc years NCB, the step back scale usually goes from a maximum 4+, 5+ or 6+ years. So a claim could reduce your 20 years NCB by two years to 2, 3 or 4 years depending on the Insurer.

The other thing that needs to be clarified is that there are two different rating factors where claim free driving is concerned. One is a reward on your insurance by means of a premium reduction for each year you are claim free - i.e. NCB. The other is the driver risk rating, this is affected by claims experience and motoring convicitons.

So if you have an accident, it would normally affect both of these, your NCB would be reduced and also your driver experience rating would be affected. A double whammy in effect.

Protecting your NCB does just that, it protects your NCB. Your driver experience rating is still affected by a claim, in the same it is if you get a speeding conviction etc. If you have a claim, come renewal you will still benefit from the maximum NCB discount, but your premium may be affected as a result of the driver experience discount. 

Protected NCB is now viewed as an "Add on" by the FCA so, if you have it, very soon renewal notices will have to state the premium with and without protected NCB to enable you to make a choice.

Protected NCB is generally transferrable between Insurers, on a "loss of life" basis. For example, if the Insurer's NCB protection is two claims in a 3 years period, then they would transfer and allow 1 claim in a 3 year period.


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

Shiny said:


> As per what James R says above, they key thing to look for is "Step-back scale". This is normally in your policy booklet.
> 
> As mentioned, where stepback is concerned, whilst a discount may be give for 5, 6, 7, 8 etc years NCB, the step back scale usually goes from a maximum 4+, 5+ or 6+ years. So a claim could reduce your 20 years NCB by two years to 2, 3 or 4 years depending on the Insurer.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all that info buddy. Can I just ask, so its clear to me, if I have 12 yrs ncb, and have to make a claim, after causing an accident myself. How many years ncb discount would I be left with once the claims gone through? Cheers :thumb:


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## ffrs1444 (Jun 7, 2008)

Havent read anyones reply to your post i have 17 years NCB , Every year i send my NCB to the new company and keep copys so they add a new year to it, everyones different some use 12 years and some use 9 years max NCB.
just dont want a company to give me there max 9 NCB then when i go with a new company and they might use 12 NCB


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

turbosnoop said:


> Thanks for all that info buddy. Can I just ask, so its clear to me, if I have 12 yrs ncb, and have to make a claim, after causing an accident myself. How many years ncb discount would I be left with once the claims gone through? Cheers :thumb:


It all depends on your Insurer, but most likely you will go down to 3 years, possibly 4 years if they have a step back scale from 6 years. Ignoring the rating for experience, you can usually compare protected NCB (assuming a 2 claims in 3 year protection) as follows:

Non protected
1st claim - NCB reduced 5+ to 3 years
2nd claim - NCB reduced from 3 years to 1 year
3rd claim - NCB reduced to nil

Protected NCB
1st claim - NCB 5+ years protected - loss of one life
2nd claim - NCB 5+ protected reduced to + years unprotected
3rd claim - NCB reduced from 5+ to 3 years
4th claim - NCB reduced from 3 years to 1 year
5th claim - NCB reduced to nil

Bear in mind NCB is affected by any claim where a full recovery of all losses is not made. So vandalism, theft, partial fault or even something entirely not your fault where but where the third party is not know (such as a hit and run) will affect your entitlement to NCB.

Personally i've always had protected NCB, it isn't a great deal extra on my premium and I have been glad i've had it in the past when a claim occurs. Compare the cost of the Protected NCB against the increased premium if you have a claim and then decide if it is worth it.


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## SBM (Jul 4, 2013)

Shiny said:


> It all depends on your Insurer, but most likely you will go down to 3 years, possibly 4 years if they have a step back scale from 6 years. Ignoring the rating for experience, you can usually compare protected NCB (assuming a 2 claims in 3 year protection) as follows:
> 
> Non protected
> 1st claim - NCB reduced 5+ to 3 years
> ...


Very very interesting and thanks for this comprehensive reply :thumb:
What I take from this though is that protected NCB is actually not protected.
To me a protected no claims means exactly that - whatever NCB I have, I keep. This suggests that - God forbid - I have a string of claims each year for 5 years I still end up with none..

This does make me wonder if its worth it....

Also this is - I assume - that the claim is my fault - what if its not? what if the other driver just denies an responsibility or is uninsured?


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Protected NCB offers protection, the level of which varies from Insurer to Insurer, generally it is 2 claims in 3 years, some are 2 in 5 years, and others 1 per policy year.

Some Insurers offer "Guaranteed" NCB, NIG springs to mind (or at least they used to) whereby NCB is unaffected irrrespective of the number of claims. Although in fairness, if you have a significant number of claims in one year, then the NCB will be the least of your worries, the task will be finding someone to insure you!

With regard to fault, this is where confustion often occurs. It is an old cliche, but the old saying was "It's a no claim bonus, not a no blame bonus...".

If you are a victim of hit and run or an uninsured driver (ignoring those insurers who offer uninsured driver cover) etc and claim on your insurance, then it is most likely that this will prejudice your NCB (or a loss of life on your protected NCB) as the Insurers will be unable to recover their outlay from the guilty party. The same applies where it may be decided that you have partial balme, unless the insurers make a 100% recovery, your NCB will be prejudiced.

If you have 2 claims in 2 years, your NCB will go from 65 odd% to either 0% or 30%. Lets say your 5 years NCB goes to nil as a result of 2 claims. This is how it will affect you (ignoring anomilies among insurer's scales)

Before claim - 65% discount off the gross rate
Your first renewal after 2 claims - 0% discount
Year 1 - 30% discount
Year 2 - 40% discount
Year 3 - 50% discount
Year 4 - 60% discount
Year 5 - finally back up 65% discount

Protect NCB
Before claim - 65% discount off nett rate
Renewal after 2 claims - 65% discount unprotected
Year 1 onwards - 65% discount

This is where you can see the benefit of protected NCB.

Protected NCB will be reinstated according to the terms, e.g. if it is 2 claims in a 3 year period, Protected NCB loss of one life is normally reinstated when you are down to 1 claim in the last 3 years and the full protection back on when you are back to no claims in the last 3 years.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

Some insurers (if not most) just dont care if you have NCB over 9 years. They seem to max out at this. 

I have like 16 years or something but it never makes a difference compared to 9 years.


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## SBM (Jul 4, 2013)

Many thanks for the detailed answers Shiny :thumb: much appreciated :thumb:


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## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

Rayaan said:


> Some insurers (if not most) just dont care if you have NCB over 9 years. They seem to max out at this.
> 
> I have like 16 years or something but it never makes a difference compared to 9 years.


No you don't have 16 years NCB. You have 16 years without a claim, which will be relevant to your driver risk rating.

No claims bonus generally builds up to a maximum (usually 60%) over 3 to 5 claim free years (depending on the insurance company). Once you have had sufficient claim free years to reach the maximum percentage discount that your insurer offers, you are eligible to pay extra to protect your NCB and further claim free years are of no relevance to the amount of NCB discount.

If you pay for NCB protection, you will still get your full NCB in the event of making a claim where you are at fault. There will be a limit on the number of claims you can make over a specified period. This varies from one insurance company to another, but if you exceed the number of claims in the specified period, you will have your NCB reduced for the next renewal.

It varies between different insurance companies, but if you don't pay for NCB protection and make a single at fault claim, you are then likely to lose all or part your NCB at the next renewal, and have to build it up year by year again.

If you are currently getting 60% NCB, a claim where it is not protected and you lose it all could see a £300 premium rise to £750 (and that's without any extra added due to you being percieved a higher risk driver!). An extra £20 or so every year doesn't look too expensive to me.


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

Mugwump said:


> No you don't have 16 years NCB. You have 16 years without a claim, which will be relevant to your driver risk rating.
> 
> No claims bonus generally builds up to a maximum (usually 60%) over 3 to 5 claim free years (depending on the insurance company). Once you have had sufficient claim free years to reach the maximum percentage discount that your insurer offers, you are eligible to pay extra to protect your NCB and further claim free years are of no relevance to the amount of NCB discount.
> 
> ...


Is that for a circumstance where you loose all your ncb? What defines if you loose it all or just some of it?


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## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

It varies from one insurer to another, but in the case of my own insurance policy, if I did not have a protected NCB and make a claim, the NCB would be reduced from 65% to 50% at the next renewal. If a further claim were to be made before the full NCB had built up again, the NCB at next renewal would reduced to 30%, three claims and it will reduce to zero and I would have to pay the full premium (in all probability with a bit extra to offset my higher risk rating as a result of making the claims - £300 could easily rise to nearer £1000!).

I have to have reached 5 years without claims to get the full 65% NCB, and it is only then that I am eligible to pay the extra to have a protected NCB.

As I do have full protected NCB, up to two claims within 5 consecutive insurance periods would see that NCB remain intact at the next renewal (with a possible increase in premium due to being statistically a higher risk driver). Three claims within five consecutive periods of insurance would see the NCB drop to 50%, and after four claims in five periods it goes down to 30%.

Any more claims beyond that and I would lose the NCB in spite of paying for protection and would have to build it back up to the full 65% over the next five years before I would be eligible to pay to protect it again.

This is just one example - other insurance companies may apply different requirements for the specific number of claims allowed and the period in which those claims occur.


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