# Cameron: Private investment needed for roads.



## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

In typical Conservative style, David Cameron's solution to our ageing road network is to wait......privatise it.

Private companies would maintain roads and get a lump sum from the Government. On new roads, they would be able to charge tolls.

I'm so disillusioned with this man, I can't put it into words.

He uses water companies as an example of good privatisation. Most of England has a hose pipe ban. He didn't mention the railways...probably for good reason as fares are an absolute rip off and go up by silly amounts every year.

The roads are a shambles but this isn't the solution. Very unimpressed by this Government. 

I'm ashamed to say I voted Conservative in the last election.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

Same as with water network, electricity, gas ...


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## john2garden (Nov 16, 2006)

What the frig does all the road tax get spent on then?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Not roads, it's not road tax and hasn't been since the 60's.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Obviously not learning from past mistakes. Going private in most cases means profit before quality.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

same thing will happened with NHS soon ...


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Fuel Duty 86% road tax new car tax Vat 1st year road tax on new car Insurance premium tax , Mot charge increases it will only stop when they are stopped IMHO they no people won't give up there cars easy so will keep going.


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

T.D.K said:


> In typical Conservative style, David Cameron's solution to our ageing road network is to wait......privatise it.
> 
> Private companies would maintain roads and get a lump sum from the Government. On new roads, they would be able to charge tolls.
> 
> ...


I think without a doubt that he will not get into Power next time round.
Petrol, train fares, roads, water shortages, what next? a tax on sex and breathing!!

Kev


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

I agree. Did you know we give Brazil 50m pounds a year in development money, china 100m for relief aid. These countries are now above us in the world league, brazil knocked us into 6th place last month. I am sure that 150m would sort out a lot of our road problems?


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

They will just stop when people go out on streets ...


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Mirror Finish Details said:


> I agree. Did you know we give Brazil 50m pounds a year in development money, china 100m for relief aid. These countries are now above us in the world league, brazil knocked us into 6th place last month. I am sure that 150m would sort out a lot of our road problems?


You forgot the £500M to India, who pretty much said they don't want it, don't need it and are going to space. Most of the money going to other countries is guilt money from the crusades.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Nobody will be able to afford to run a car soon so the roads will not been needed.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Mirror Finish Details said:


> I agree. Did you know we give Brazil 50m pounds a year in development money, china 100m for relief aid. These countries are now above us in the world league, brazil knocked us into 6th place last month. I am sure that 150m would sort out a lot of our road problems?


Yes but then the free Jollies for the ministers would stop very selfish of you


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Not happy about this - seems to be the usual

"We take your money, we ***k up then give a private company the right to take even more money off you for doing what we couldn't / wouldn't"


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## Strothow (Oct 29, 2009)

Wonder what they will rename road tax to when this happens then.

He is a complete and utter joke, country is in a mess in every way!


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Strothow said:


> Wonder what they will rename road tax to when this happens then.
> 
> He is a complete and utter joke, country is in a mess in every way!


It's been vehicle excise duty for a while now


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

If the roads become privately owned, can the police enforce any speed limits ?


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Prism Detailing said:


> If the roads become privately owned, can the police enforce any speed limits ?


There will be bouncers on the roads lol


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

hoikey said:


> There will be bouncers on the roads lol


Its like the M6 toll, is that still privately owned or publically owned now ? if public then why do we pay toll charges ? and if private, why are the police allowed to patrol ? Also if its private, the owners will be able to charge what they want.....as everyone says road tax ? council tax....these should be paying for the roads to be in much better condition !


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

It's a lot like Oil Sites Road and Bridges road in Ellesmere Port, they're privately owned by the Manchester ship canal company - do the police have any authoriy over traffic?


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

M6 is still private and it has speed limits and Jag XF police cars on it...

:thumb:


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

The Cueball said:


> M6 is still private and it has speed limits and Jag XF police cars on it...
> 
> :thumb:


Also an unmarked blue/green Volvo S60, saw it had pulled someone......


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

I voted conservative because I didn't trust Gordon Brown. However, at least he wasn't obsessed with privatization. Cameron disgusts me. I pay over £60 a week in petrol and pay £115 a year road fund to drive on terrible roads. His solution is ludicrous and won't benefit any of us.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Prism Detailing said:


> Also an unmarked blue/green Volvo S60, saw it had pulled someone......


haven't saw that one... cheers...

:thumb:


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## Matt197 (Dec 27, 2006)

Is this the future then while the conservatives are in power, privatisation of everything?

 cant be good.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I wouldn't mind private road as long as the rate was reasonable, the roads were in good condition, I no longer have to pay road tax, and they calmed the fuel costs down a bit...

let the people who use the roads the most pay for them, not the ones that have big engines... 

:thumb:


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

Once i've thought about it after my instant negative reaction, i actually think it could be a good thing (it would depend on a couple of conditions like lowering road tax for eg). Plus i don't know the full details of the proposed plan.

Why do i think this? Well whenever the government is involved with money and contracts, there is generally very poor value for money. Works are usually over schedule, way over budget and sometimes not good quality. The council/government are not really that interested in the best deal as it's not their money.

Where as a private company handling it all for a lease period (say 20-25 years) would be a lot more smarter & efficient. They wouldn't over run their budget and get it done quicker compared to the government.
If the toll is too expensive, people can't afford it & won't use it, you can still use the normal public roads. So this an incentive to be more reasonable with the charges,to get more drivers using it & reclaiming money & profit asap before their lease is up.

However, this is the theory, and can open pandora's box giving the government more justification to push the public down a slippery slope. Like how income tax was only for the war against Neapollian iirc.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

What annoys me is Cameron was in the US last week and must have seen the petrol prices over there whilst been whizzed about in a nice V8 Tahoe.

How the hell can he sleep when he sees $3.00 a gallon compared to what we pay at $10 a gallon. Bl00dy hell it is the same stuff, just fuel.

Plus the Tahoe only cost $50 a year in road tax.

No wonder the US keeping fuel tax low keeps their economy moving.

We are the same price now as Denmark and the Netherlands on fuel; these countiies do not have car tax either. You can get a bus, train or tram almost everywhere there every 10 minutes of so. My local bus runs to crewe every hour between 10am and 4pm.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

all very well talking about the USA, but remember that in some states, the minimum wage can be as low as £1.50 GBP....and the federal one is £4.56 GBP... per hour...

imaging working for £1.50 an hour....  

:thumb:


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## Adrian Convery (May 27, 2010)




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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

Only one word for this man.
And it rhymes with hunt.

Awaits sarcasm


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

if anyone thinks they will cut down road tax when they "lease" roads only what I can say is ... dream more


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## Th3Doctor (Feb 2, 2010)

alan_mcc said:


> Only one word for this man.
> And it rhymes with hunt.
> 
> Awaits sarcasm


Shunt?


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## trv8 (Dec 30, 2007)

alan_mcc said:


> Only one word for this man.
> And it rhymes with hunt.
> 
> Awaits sarcasm





Th3Doctor said:


> Shunt?


Runt!


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Any anyone who said this would happen was a liberal hippie at the time if I remember (not from you, just the general zeitgeist)!

What the **** did anyone think chronie Dave and the Eton brigade would do?? Care about any of us, and help your granny with her shopping?


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## herbiedacious (Sep 27, 2010)

The line Cameron was taking on the news last night is that he was trying to ease congestion. Yeah,right, a toll booth on every motorway is really going to help! If container transport by rail was affordable there would be a hell of a lot less trucks using the motorways but then l suppose there would be less income from tax on diesel,there would be more income from the railways, but they've been privatised.


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## JohnA88 (Jul 26, 2011)

Ross said:


> Nobody will be able to afford to run a car soon so the roads will not been needed.


That is exactly what they want hence trying to price everyone off the road. All this bollacks about selling your car and using a bicycle is a joke because alot of people work 50+ miles from home so how the hell are you going to do a 100 mile round trip on a bike is beyond me.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

herbiedacious said:


> The line Cameron was taking on the news last night is that he was trying to ease congestion. Yeah,right, a toll booth on every motorway is really going to help! If container transport by rail was affordable there would be a hell of a lot less trucks using the motorways but then l suppose there would be less income from tax on diesel,there would be more income from the railways, but they've been privatised.


But what about all the truck drivers who would then be out if a job and claiming dole


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## herbiedacious (Sep 27, 2010)

they would still be delivering the containers,but on a more local basis


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

-PJB- said:


> Any anyone who said this would happen was a liberal hippie at the time if I remember (not from you, just the general zeitgeist)!
> 
> What the **** did anyone think chronie Dave and the Eton brigade would do?? Care about any of us, and help your granny with her shopping?


It does seem that some people still believe the government - any party is there for the people and there to do what is best for the country....

Far too many people do not care or understand what is going on in this country, but they still have the time to watch TV and rant about things they do not understand... 

Although, I do think that more people are begining to at least clock on to what is happeneing... maybe they are not interested in the game plan, but they can now see, quite clearly, that something is wrong and the people in power are not helping the country.....

Wait until budget time, where yet money money and cost is put on fuel, sending prices up through the whole of the "product" chain, making almost everything in the UK more expensive...because as we already know, mostly everything comes by road...

But hey, look on the bright side, we (as a nation) asked for all this!

:wall::wall::wall::wall:


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

I can't wait for the budget, see if we've got the same minerals as the Frenchists and are willing to stand up and be counted when the going gets tough.


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

The problems all began with the Tearing up of the Rail network in the 50s and 60s.

I'm actually not against tolling the Motorways though i don't think it should be privatised. It works well in Italy and those that use them, should pay a little extra for their upkeep. Those that don't shouldn't have to.

We are sooooooo far behind in the UK. Our rail network needs ripping up and starting again with a Euro Gauge, so does the underground.

Our industry is practically gone. And our public sector is now being squeezed. 

It's a sorry state of affairs, it really is but we'll all just muddle along as best we can.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

The problem in my view is these water companies etc are a profit organisation. Share holders have to get there cut.

They shouldn't be a profit organisation as i see water for example as a human right, sure we have to pay for it but for the companies to make a profit i feel is obsurd.

To much of out companies have sold out to other countries which has left us with nothing.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> The problem in my view is these water companies etc are a profit organisation. Share holders have to get there cut.
> 
> They shouldn't be a profit organisation as i see water for example as a human right, sure we have to pay for it but for the companies to make a profit i feel is obsurd.
> 
> To much of out companies have sold out to other countries which has left us with nothing.


Water is a human right... OK I agree to that... but, basically water falls from the sky, and that is free....

What is not free is the collection, sanitisation, transport and delivery of water to every home in the UK...

I do agree however that no company, or person should be making millions off it... but again be careful... if you have a pension, then you are relying on the water companies making lots of money for YOU... same with the banks etc...

People have to understand that somewhere along the line, they are shareholders and although they are aghast at such profits, they actually need them for their pension....

:thumb:


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

T.D.K said:


> I voted conservative because I didn't trust Gordon Brown. However, at least he wasn't obsessed with privatization. Cameron disgusts me.


Maybe, but labour like to Nationalise sectors which also has it major problems - ie the banking sector!!! The problem with that is the taxpayer is dumped with the costs & losses whilst special interests profit (as the currently do in the NHS, the olympics etc).

Ideologically i believe in a true free-market (no government intervention, just keeps a level playing field) then the consumer dictates the price levels & which company suceeds or fails, giving more incentive for companies to produce what the consumer wants and the right price.


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## hibberd (Jul 5, 2006)

The point of this is more complex, as cars become more fuel efficient and we move towards electric cars there has to be an aleternative method of getting the money they need in. here in holland they are discussing getting people to pay per driven km. However this is not easy to make work and is extremely expensive to implement and not tamper proof. This proposal would help reduce this and leave the onnus of implementing it to someone else. It will come, logically it has to come and quickly too as cars are getting very very economical now, thats all lost revenue. You farm the roads out you get money for nothing as you are relieved of maintanace etc.


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## toomanycitroens (Jan 14, 2011)

The Government want all us 'underlings' to us Public Transport.
On the other hand they are making a big thing around our way of the new JLR engine plant, and patting each other on the back, how good it is for the economy and the motor trade etc.
It really is all bo**ocks when you read between the lines.
Carrot and stick spring to mind, or-------------lambs to the slaughter!


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

One of the reasons why petrol getting more expensive that we aren't really told much about:


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

I see that KH904,

However, i had to chuckle at the News Banner on the You Tube Video.

"Apple announces it's sold 3M iPad 3s since launch".

Cost of living is going up yet a designer product is still flying off the shelves. 

Are we really struggling that much? Or, are we being forced to prioritise our money? Which is really, how it should be.

People make choices like getting a £35K BMW on tick and living in a 2 bed semi and moaning about house prices when there is £400-500 per month depreciating on the driveway. Or taking Holidays to the Caribbean. When i grew up in the 80's only the well off could do that. People see it as a right to be able to chuck a fortnight in Aruba on a CC and worry about it later.

We have a very costly standard of living. But, is it costly because things cost a lot or is it costly because of how we choose to spend our money?

If we all started saving, the economy would fail. So we have to tax it. That means those with less income are forced to give up the things that have previously been nice to have. Is the standard of living lower? No, not really. The higher standard is not as accessible as it was to as many of the population.

Back on the roads.

I live near to the A14 N/S section where it carries traffic from the A1, M11 and A14 through a tiny two lane corridor from Huntingdon to Cambridge. This is one of the most affluent areas of the country yet the road infrastructure is disgraceful. Why? Well, good little middle class people don't moan do they?

We have traffic from Felixtowe going to the central hub in the M1/A1 corridor that just clogs the whole road for miles. It only takes one of these drivers to take his eye off his paper, I mean the road for the idiot in the Rep mobile to dive under his wheels trying to save 5 minutes and the whole region for 20 miles is log-jammed. And i mean Log-jammed. The A14 is an expanded local route. Not a new one. So, once you are on that stretch, there are very few ways around.

Why can't the containers go by rail from Felixtowe to a central distribution centre in the centre of the country? Because the minor rail networks have all been destroyed. The major ones cannot cope with commuter and commercial traffic. In any case, the gauge of the track is too narrow for really heavy trains and really fast ones as well. Something about modernisation objections continually making advancement too difficult probably.

The flyover at Huntingdon is currently shut at weekends as it is falling down and needs renovating.

The solution has been in place for years. Another East/West Trunk road between Ellington and Milton. But, it's "too expensive". Yet there is enough money to put in a stupid guided busway that is hampered by the very road system it is supposed to help. It cost so much to build that £2 of a £5.40 return from St. Ives to Cambridge (Yes, really) is a departure charge for the bus that the bus company doesn't see to pay the CC back for the busway. Ironically at £3.40 return, the busway would be a reasonable alternative. Why is the CC trying to earn money back from the public on this? It is public money that paid for it. Because they can. It's another way to get money from outside of the city into the County's coffers. Well done councillors, have a pay rise.

If private money could build that East/West section, it would help the country logistically and financially. If it were tolled, then as long as it wasn't as extortionate as the M6, it would be used. I personally can't see a problem with this.

Having said that, Cambridge is wierd. There is enough money to put little lights along the cycle paths and enough money for a Busway project that hasn't done anything to ease congestion in the city (i feel a congestion charge coming on). But not enough money for the rest of Cambridgeshire to get a decent public transport system or enough money for new schools in the towns that have expanded three fold.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I agree Gruffs, people have been living on borrowed money and time for all their "must haves" in this world...

They see idiots zcelebs and want to copy... there are far too many TV shows showing nothing about nobodies but the public love and scream for more...

We all have to re-adjust to proper values and living within our means...

The cost of living is set to continue to rise on and on... what little manufacturing we have got left will get harder and harder to make money and grow...

"Great" Britain is moving faster and faster into the gutter...


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

Good post Gruffs! :thumb:

I pretty much agree with everything you've said. The main root of the problem though is we have a debt-based ecomony & debt-dased monetary system (all money is debt), so yes saving is not good for the economy when it's like this. 
The whole monetary system needs over sorting, but that's been argued in other threads.

Secondly the Governement usually makes things worse (either in the short term or long term) when it's involved with the economy. They just tinker with policies that have disasterous effects when you look back at it.
They just artificially manipulate things as a reactionary attention grabbing quick fix, ie housing bubbles, interest rates, employment etc etc which just are not sustainable. 

If the Government stepped away from controlling many aspects of the peoples daily lives, things with reach an equilibrium naturally, and the people have more personal control & freedom. That also means we the people taking more responsibility when things go wrong instead of the government trying to look after everything & everyone. 

When the opposite occurs (or what we have now), the government then can disctate or make the excuse of taxing & controlling/regulating everything for our benefit/safety! 
Then we get rediculous ideas and policies that waste vast amounts of our money like you have mentioned (bus lane on the motorway)!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Probably a good time to mention this thread (again)...

money thread

:lol:

:thumb:


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