# Risk assessments etc



## dcj (Apr 17, 2009)

Anyone know of a good car valeting/detailing risk assessment/method statement template? Ive had a call from a large local company who want me to valet several cars on a regular basis but are big on H&S so need me to hand in the MS and RA as soon as possible. Was planning on relaxing the next few days but now I,ve got this to do want to make it as easy as possible.
Any help appreciated thanks.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Use an blank standard HSE format from here and your method statement can be done bullet point format for ease of navigation, don't forget to include MSDS for _*anything*_ you use.


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## Dangerroush (Nov 4, 2010)

Hi, go onto the hse web site and look at their list of examples, and adapt one that's closest, pick one that involves working on customer premises etc
cheers
si


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## davewhitt (Aug 30, 2009)

it depends where your doing the work ,if its on there site don't they have to do the ra ,aren't they responsible for the whole of the site and you have to work to there rules .but they may need a work method ,


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

This is part of what i do for a living having external contractors come on site and work for me.
generic hse downloaded forms are fine stating the obvious slips trips falls etc simple method statement and as mentioned msds for all chems,easily downloaded..... but also if they are so big on h&s then they will need to issue and monitor a permit to work on there site for you otherwise they arent covering all the bases,its a 2 way street and there the principal in this arrangement


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

davewhitt said:


> it depends where your doing the work ,if its on there site don't they have to do the ra ,aren't they responsible for the whole of the site and you have to work to there rules .but they may need a work method ,


nope ,they will need to provide an individual ra for there work.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

davewhitt said:


> it depends where your doing the work ,if its on there site don't they have to do the ra ,aren't they responsible for the whole of the site and you have to work to there rules .but they may need a work method ,


No not really, they're responsible for contractors H&S but you are responsible for your own SOPs and SSOW.


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

bigmc said:


> No not really, they're responsible for contractors H&S but you are responsible for your own SOPs and SSOW.


yep,as bigmc says .
the site,using me as an example would have a contractor site inducted and a permit to work issued for the task being done on that day.

the ra and subsequent method statement is down to the contractor


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

If you have less than 5 employees you aren't legally obliged to document your risk assessments. Whether this will cut any ice with them is another matter


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

Brazo said:


> If you have less than 5 employees you aren't legally obliged to document your risk assessments. Whether this will cut any ice with them is another matter


This while true Brazo, from a personal perspective on my site would mean that the contractor wouldnt get the contract at all,however that isnt the case everywhere so worth a shout perhaps..


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

R0B said:


> This while true Brazo, from a personal perspective on my site would mean that the contractor wouldnt get the contract at all,however that isnt the case everywhere so worth a shout perhaps..


One of the reasons why health and safety gets a bad name in the press as companies take it upon themselves to add their own requirements which make the law look onerous when it isn't, unfortunately fuelled by insurance and civil claim culture.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

You wouldn't even get on my site unless you'd provided me with both an ra and method statement for everything you would be doing on site.


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

Brazo said:


> One of the reasons why health and safety gets a bad name in the press as companies take it upon themselves to add their own requirements which make the law look onerous when it isn't, unfortunately fuelled by insurance and civil claim culture.


This i agree with mate,however our insurers as you state and also the requirements for maintaining multi site iso accreditation dictate how we operate and the records and requirements we make and keep, my job would be alot easier without it all but it is what it is,so it isnt us as a company taking it up on ourselves it is the requirements pressed upon us a a company that make us operate this way,
i work for quite a big company by the way so were very thorough in how we operate to make sure we are covered from all angles:thumb:


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

I know where you're coming from, we've achieved ISO 9000, 14001 and OHSAS18001 this year and we're a top tier COMAH site - paperwork galore and records kept for years.


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

But why do you do that? 

Did you do it twenty - thirty years ago?

No of course you didn't 

You do it because its a requirement of your your insurance company which is being shafted by every man and his dog making insurance claims. This in turn fuels a culture of fear. Paper work doesn't make sites safer it simply satisfies your insurance company. 

I know all about big companies and risk management and it all boils down to insurance and civil claims.

Actual 'Health and Safety' i.e HSAWA etc 1974 is nigh on irrelevant nowadays as the process is purely insurance (and daily mail) driven.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Brazo said:


> If you have less than 5 employees you aren't legally obliged to document your risk assessments. Whether this will cut any ice with them is another matter


But you are been subcontracted to a larger site they are employing you as a sub contractor therefore you fit in the "bigger picture" they not only employ you but others and if they go over the 5+ rule they need to have risk assessments for all on site activity's as the site owner/ Principle client

(bit abridged over CDM and the like)



Brazo said:


> One of the reasons why health and safety gets a bad name in the press as companies take it upon themselves to add their own requirements which make the law look onerous when it isn't, unfortunately fuelled by insurance and civil claim culture.


Someone has an accident relating to the O/P's activity on site which requires medical care and they are covered in a "thick green liquid" which has got in their eye and has an allergic reaction telling the paramedics its AG Bumper care wont be any help........ they will want the MSDS on the spot to forward on to the A&E department

*(totally out the box how does the attending paramedic know that its a relatively low toxicity green bumper gel rather than Radioactive waste)* far flung example i know but it happens....



bigmc said:


> You wouldn't even get on my site unless you'd provided me with both an ra and method statement for everything you would be doing on site.


Well said that man... :thumb:



bigmc said:


> I know where you're coming from, we've achieved ISO 9000, 14001 and OHSAS18001 this year and we're a top tier COMAH site - paperwork galore and records kept for years.












http://www.hse.gov.uk/comah/sragtech/caseflixboroug74.htm

:doublesho

stay safe fella 



Brazo said:


> But why do you do that?
> 
> Did you do it twenty - thirty years ago?
> 
> ...


the HSAWA etc act is the basics and Many companies fail to archive the BASIC minimum despite it now closing on been law for nearly 18 years :wall:

No but back then things went wrong look at the above link that bang broke windows 15 miles away the above incident was caused by some on site staff trying to keep the factory going when a vessil was taken off line due to a fault. the made a bypass pipe but failed to take into account fluid dynamics the pipe they plumbed in ruptured and killed 30 or so staff......

Not only that now the environmental regs have tightened up and you will recieve a fairly stiff rodgering from the local EHO/ HSE if you fail to comply....

Dead is forever....... Using 240Vac equipment outside is forbidden on most sites and has to be 110vac center tap for example they will also want to see other control measures... Use a petrol genny or PW???? what will you do if petrol leaks how will you deal with the spillage in terms of fire safety and environmental damage....

On a side note you really shouldn't carry out your own risk assessments unless suitably trained and qualified (competent as its known in the H&S business) If your having to ask on here you are clearly not Competent! (not having a go but it has massive ramifications if you get it wrong)

http://www.hse.gov.uk/business/competent-advice.htm

Even a Pro is bound to miss something.......

eg You drive onto the site as part of your work..... you become a vehicular hazard the minute you pass the curtilage how do you plan on eliminating /reduce the risk of collision with persons or site traffic whist there and plan on controlling any remaining risk ?

or you set up in a car park to clean the MD's car... How do you plan on protecting yourself from been struck by another vehicle ((one hint a High vis vest is a LAST RESORT))

simply speaking look at it as in the eyes of a 5 year old walking though the gates how would you protect a toddler from hurting themselves by you actions on site, Look on others as TOTAL idiots with ZERO common sense and record / behave as needed.... sounds daft but there are claims like this
















Now every person with eyes in their head would have seen the floor was wet without signs had they been paying attention ... the chap would have got someone to foot the ladder or got scaffolding in.... and the chap would have made sure the tractor was in park and brakes on before tinkering with the towing chains to the back tow hook .... do the need telling to put a rain coat on if it rains or their head lights on in their car if its dark,......


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## ferted (May 7, 2011)

andy monty said:


> Now every person with eyes in their head would have seen the floor was wet without signs had they been paying attention ... the chap would have got someone to foot the ladder or got scaffolding in.... and the chap would have made sure the tractor was in park and brakes on before tinkering with the towing chains to the back tow hook .... do the need telling to put a rain coat on if it rains or their head lights on in their car if its dark,......





Brazo said:


> You do it because its a requirement of your your insurance company which is being shafted by every man and his dog making insurance claims. This in turn fuels a culture of fear. Paper work doesn't make sites safer it simply satisfies your insurance company.


Which is the point Brazo is making,most accidents can be avoided if people showed some common sense or awareness,some claims made and paid are farcical
Wrong ladder FFS common sense tells you to use a decent secured ladder
H&S laws whilst being a necessity in some respects can be a PITA in others

Takw where I work,all my working life I've used knives of some form from chefs knives to stanleys,so I'm well aware of the dangers,but where I work now made me do a days course on safe knife practices,I knew more about the damn things than the 'expert' work hired to teach people
This was AFTER having worked there for 4 years
It transpires that someone else whilst cutting open a box managed to slash their arm needing 12 stitches,turns out they were cutting towards thenself when the incident hapened,now common sense says 'always cut AWAY from yourself'
Best part is I can USE the knife but if I need the blade changing I have to get my task leader to do it,if I do it myself then I could be disciplined as I'm not authorised to change blades,but he HASN'T done the knife course


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

You've got to remember that common sense isn't common though, numptyism takes hold when people get complacent. It's only a PITA if you haven't taken the time to do your legal duty properly, we have folders and folders of risk assessments, method statements, standard operating procedures (which can replace your risk assessments if done properly), safe systems of work etc. Everything we do on site needs a permit to work, sometimes 3 or 4 seperate permits but it does make the job safer, especially once you realise the hierarchy of control and know PPE is the last resort and an easy way out for the lazy. Take Andy's example of the hi-vis tabard, it's bottom of the food chain in terms of acceptability but it's the first thing people would opt for due to being lazy or incompetent, we have numerous vehicle movements everyday, HGV and FLT but we've eliminated the need for hi-vis by installing other control measures to prevent vehicle/pedestrian contact as much as possible.


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

No, the point that I was making is that HS law is so basic and almost an irrelevance compared to the mountains of paperwork and other systems which some (not all) employers load onto them selves. 

The law itself is reasonably straightforward and easy to comply with, however its the law that is often bashed and yet bashed with examples that the guys have made above of overly complicated systems and these no win/no fee arrangements which have little to do with HSWA. 

Nice picture of Flixborough Andy, I'm sure you can find a much more recent picture if need be, with all said systems in place! If not I can 

Actually the UK has the safest working record in the world and we should be proud but it doesn't come from no win no fee and it doesn't come from overly complicated unnecessary risk assessment. 

It comes from proper risk assessment matching hazard to appropriate control measures.


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## dcj (Apr 17, 2009)

Thanks for all the replies guys,I,ve done risk assessments and method statements before but years ago when worked down t'pit. Obviously a bit rusty on them so I,ll download one of the links. Not worth arguing against the case although I,m a one man band and they want to put money in my pocket.
There are 10 cars want cleaning regularly and about another 600 on the site so I definitely want the contract.:thumb:
Thanks again.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

To be honest all this stuff with H&S is just to make someone rich all equipment trainings different certificates cost a lot of money and because of this costs more and more companies moved production abroad...


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Brazo said:


> No, the point that I was making is that HS law is so basic and almost an irrelevance compared to the mountains of paperwork and other systems which some (not all) employers load onto them selves.
> 
> The law itself is reasonably straightforward and easy to comply with, however its the law that is often bashed and yet bashed with examples that the guys have made above of overly complicated systems and these no win/no fee arrangements which have little to do with HSWA.
> 
> ...












and that was caused by........ 



dcj said:


> Thanks for all the replies guys,I,ve done risk assessments and method statements before but years ago when worked down t'pit. Obviously a bit rusty on them so I,ll download one of the links. Not worth arguing against the case although I,m a one man band and they want to put money in my pocket.
> There are 10 cars want cleaning regularly and about another 600 on the site so I definitely want the contract.:thumb:
> Thanks again.


Most night schools do OCN risk assessment course fairly cheaply over about 5 hours (its not a massive in depth course BUT you do get a certificate at the end of it which shows your competency.

Play the game and do it well making the effort will usually win the day

If you havent already get a fire extinguisher there is an outfit on ebay going under the name of fireguard999 who supply at a reasonable price and service it before supplying (12 months ticket on it if you will) suitable for your vehicle and a HSE first aid kit

Get a material data sheet for everything that you have on the van and organise them in a ring binder


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## Andy G (Feb 2, 2006)

Don't forget if your going to work outside in the car park , make sure you have a spill kit in case of any leaks of products . Also make sure that any run off from washing ONLY enter the foul water drain system as it is demed Trade efflent , as if any goes down the surface water drains the company would be liable to fines and then would probably come after you for compensation ! ....for further info have a look at Enviroment Agency PPG13 on Vehicle washing and cleaning. 
Hope this is some help


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