# Meguiars Microfibre Correction System - Leveling Effect For Superior Clarity!



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Along with others, we have been testing the new Meguiars Microfibre DA correction system for a little while now, putting it through its paces against a variety of different correction and finishing systems... There is much talk about the speed of correction it offers and while it does cut quickly, my personal experience of the system is that this is not the ace that it holds up its sleeve. Rather, the product's trump card is the way it corrects the paintwork, as it seems to give a levelling effect that results in greater clarity than using a foam pad on either rotary or DA as it gives a "flatter" finish - this enhancement in clarity is akin to wet sanding in terms of looks, approaching a mirror like shine and this has been the biggest thing to impress me about the system.

To give you an idea of what I mean, I've put together a couple of videos and some pictures in this thread. Starting off with the test panel, you can see a cloudy haze finish as well as deeper marks and general swirls:














































In order to show a true representation of the defects on the finish and the hazyness, I have use manual focus to focus on the paint surface.

Taking you through the test, I have decided to do this by videos, so the first part of the test is checking the paint thickness:






Then assessing the paint condition before:






Meguiars DA Microfibre Correction Compound was used here on a Cutting pad. This time, water was used to regenerate to polish to extend the work time which has had a small benefit to the leveling effect but as the afters will show, has not really increased the level of correction of deeper marks (thought Gordon has been working on a technique which does allow the system to correct deeper marks  ). The set used:






Firm pressure was used throughout the correction stage of the set, and the key as shown in the video is very slow hand movements over the area.

The paint finish was then assessed again in this video, note the increase in gloss and clarity and the sharpness of the skylight reflection which has come through leveling the paint surface:






Using manual focus to focus on the surface of the paint (which gives a true representation of what has been achieved, and you can tell it is focussed on the surface as you see the bigger chips in clear focus  ). Not all OP has been removed but it has certainly been reduced to give this finish. Note however that the deeper marks still remain, as this photographs below also show:


















































































A well refined finish as well, just from this cutting correction stage. Assessing the paint thickness after:






On this finish, which is medium on this bonnet (the car was a patchwork quilt of paints!!), around 4um of paint has been removed so the correction system is not removing large amounts of paint which would explain why deeper RDS are not removed but are softened. The system seem to correct by leveling more than foam does, but removes less paint.

Thus far, this suggests to me that a cutting compound could be used by rotary for removal of RDS (spot correction), and then the DA system used for the finish enhancement stage to increase the gloss and clarity as shown above... Putting this to the test, we have a deeper mark here that was reduced with two sets of 3M Fast Cut on a rotary polisher (note the holograms left by the cutting compound, used on a cutting pad to defect removal):





































Then, following a set similar to the video (no. 3) above with the Meguiars Correction Compound on a Cutting Microfibre and we see the following results, focussed on the paint surface:














































Again, there has been an improvement to the gloss and clarity which appears to be coming from the reduction in the "peel" of the paint, it looks more level which contributes to the clarity of the reflections seen.

More work is to be carried out trialling the finishing wax, but currently I favour refining by rotary using something like Meguiars #205 on a 3M blue finishing pad. The Finishing Wax does work well, but for me, #205 has an edge on a finishing pad for clarity during refinement but we've got more testing of the finishing wax to go ... However, following the refinement by #205, this is what we see:


















































































In summary then, so far this system has shown itself to offer something new to the machine polishing market in terms of the finish that it can produce compared to foam... the leveling effect is similar to using a wool pad by rotary but without the higher paint losses. In terms of a paint correction detail, it definitely offers something tenable to the point where I may be tempted to argue that it is becoming a key part of the detail: deeper marks corrected by rotary and compounds, paint finish enhanced and general correction by DA to get this "level" finish and then refine with a finishing polish. This trio would be very tempting for me on a detail! More to follow on getting the Correction system to remove deeper marks following Gordon's findings and getting more from the Finishing Wax


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## badman1972 (Jun 24, 2010)

Great post Dave, thanks for the usual attention to detail and report on your findings, very interesting :thumb:


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## Asio (Jul 13, 2011)

Thak you for your work abount this new correction system. It could be a very interesting alternative.


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## GMToyota (Mar 14, 2010)

Thanks for the write up. I also noticed this leveling effect (more clarity) with your previous write up. 

But you're working the compound for about 7 minutes? Is that really faster and time saving? I usually work my Menz Fast Gloss for about 4-5 minutes. 

What about cleaning of these microfibers? I've got a pad washer, are they "pad-washer compatible" or is it back to removing the pad and using a brush for manual cleaning.


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

Great write up, Dave.

Have anyone used these pads with a rotary?


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Another great write up Dave! 

This seems like a way better alternative to flattening with the rotary and wool! More effective too!


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

GMToyota said:


> What about cleaning of these microfibers? I've got a pad washer, are they "pad-washer compatible" or is it back to removing the pad and using a brush for manual cleaning.


Where cleaning the mf pads would help. it would certainly reduce the durability of the pads. Pad washer again. I would just presonaly wash it out under running water and spin it off. The pad washer might be to course in claening. I have just completed 2 day with this system on rock hard Audi paint. I have the added benefit of an air line and I blow the pad off after every set. Clarity and revelling was achieved and with a slight variation in polishing styles Deeper marks and RDS where also removed.



Porta said:


> Great write up, Dave.
> 
> Have anyone used these pads with a rotary?


I would not use these on a rotary Porta. They would loose the pile very quickly and disintegrate. Unfortunately DA only.



type[r]+ said:


> Another great write up Dave!
> 
> This seems like a way better alternative to flattening with the rotary and wool! More effective too!


Totally agree. Much safer and a more controlled way of increasing clarity and the upper surface of the paint. Without being to departmental to the paint levels.


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## fishbonezken (Apr 17, 2010)

That looks like it has been compounded with a 4-ply twisted wool pad!

Dave, would you say that this system would save time of an overall detail, since this would eliminate the need for extensive masking and also less cleaning up(less polish in gaps and edges, and less dust)?


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

GMToyota said:


> Thanks for the write up. I also noticed this leveling effect (more clarity) with your previous write up.
> 
> But you're working the compound for about 7 minutes? Is that really faster and time saving? I usually work my Menz Fast Gloss for about 4-5 minutes.
> 
> What about cleaning of these microfibers? I've got a pad washer, are they "pad-washer compatible" or is it back to removing the pad and using a brush for manual cleaning.


I know that one of the ways the system is being marketed is as a time saving method, but for me this is not its strong suit. Its strong suit is in the results it delivers - this flattening effect. So I wouldn't see it as a time saver, but more a method of getting results that you cannot achieve on foam. It does correct quickly, and you can short-set it if you wish with sets of just two to three minutes, but longer sets seem to get a little more from this leveling effect but I find you do need water to keep the compound alive for the desired work time.



fishbonezken said:


> That looks like it has been compounded with a 4-ply twisted wool pad!
> 
> Dave, would you say that this system would save time of an overall detail, since this would eliminate the need for extensive masking and also less cleaning up(less polish in gaps and edges, and less dust)?


As above, I don't see it as a method for saving time, more for the results it achieves... I would still be masking up, especially edges as the sides of the pad feel quite sharp and on a DA I could see them tearing edges that they catch so I would definitely be masking up as per usual


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## tfonseca (Jul 31, 2008)

Very interesting! How many pads did you use to make a all car?


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## josadler (Jul 14, 2010)

How are the (flattening) results compared to wetsanding?


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

tfonseca said:


> Very interesting! How many pads did you use to make a all car?


Currently working away on one and you could get away with two of the discs if you clean them regularly (ideally with compressed air, see video) or if you are very gentle with a soft brush, but having four of them makes me feel a lot more at ease... As in, having a couple of 6" discs and a 5" disc and a 3" disc for lots of different panel sizes 








josadler said:


> How are the (flattening) results compared to wetsanding?


When the product is worked for long sets it delivers result that are very close, but without the sanding haze which is a major plus in my humble opinion. The principles are similar - take off the raised regions of paint so that the surface is flattened to give you a more mirror like shine.


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

I've got a few questions I want to ask on this but need to do a quick MS paint drawing first lol.


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

Grrr i'm trying to draw what I want to say, becuase trying to explain it is going to be harder. But, you say it flat's better than foam? Couldn't any pad and polish, keep cutting until it reaches the same level that this mf system has, becuase for this mf system to acheive a flat look it only removed 4 microns, so in my mind that means that any (safe) method of removing 4 micron's would leave the same flat finish?

This isn't questioning, just trying to learn more


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

ant_s said:


> Grrr i'm trying to draw what I want to say, becuase trying to explain it is going to be harder. But, you say it flat's better than foam? Couldn't any pad and polish, keep cutting until it reaches the same level that this mf system has, becuase for this mf system to acheive a flat look it only removed 4 microns, so in my mind that means that any (safe) method of removing 4 micron's would leave the same flat finish?
> 
> This isn't questioning, just trying to learn more


I know exactly what you mean (I think!) - and the answer is no, foam pads will not really flat or level is the same way because the foam can mould itself more readily into all the bumps and pits of the paint, so it levels the whole lot if that makes sense? Whereas sandpaper on a sanding block only removes the tops of the peaks of the orange peel because it cannot mould around it so you level the finish down until it is all at the same level. The microfibre pads seem to work similarly to the latter to level the paint finish and they do this quite effectively, though I am trying it on different paint types to see how consistently I can get the results - look out for a quick post later on on a 57 reg Volvo S40, and a post by Gordon on an Audi RS6 that he corrected using the system :thumb:

Hope that makes sense in words, if not, I'll try and draw up some pictures


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

Thank you VERY much Dave, although i've sent a pm to you, explaining my thougts a lil more


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

Well this is what i'd sent you Dave, thanks for the reply aswel. Thought i'd add it here just incase other's think what I do.

Time for my brilliantly designed images to be shown now, (i'm available for private work btw )

So in my mind, paintwork looks like this, (if it has clear coat) but the 3 layers. The swirls very - very light markings. The RDS's - deeper marks, sometimes lower than OP sometime not. Then OP, which isn't always in the clear? Sometimes in another layer (base or colour). O yeah, anyone thinking they want to steal my work, I've put copyright on there!!










So... to acheive a flat finish, and make it glossier and us happier , any defects in the clear need to be flatted, and a reduction in OP makes a huge visual difference.

But, saying this flatts better is the confusing part. Couldn't any system for paint removal be used to flat the paint, (I know wet-sanding is up there as the best way to acheive a flat finish) but if a rotary was used with foam pads (aslong as they're finished down well, with a finishing pad/polish etc) get the same level/flat finished paint? Again another copyrighted pic of mine, but trying to show that if the paint was removed by any means, it would still get a flat finish?










So, the peel isn't really a line of unlevel paint, the peel is all the way from the top layer, down throughout all the paint. And by using different types of polishing "tools" you can either remove the peel "high's and lows" or your pad (a foam) will mould itself around the shape of peel, so removing paint but keeping the peel?


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Hi Ant, thanks for posting the diagrams up 

As said in the PM, the orange peel effect is something that is on the surface along with the swirls which is what allows things like sand paper to skim the top of the paint surface to level it. So, the diagrams would show this on the top and gives a good impression of what the surface leveling effect is


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## DE 1981 (Aug 17, 2007)

Dave that is a great review on the system, there's nobody better at offering concise, well written articles. I've been following all the reviews from the top guys in the US and yours is right up there amongst the most interesting and informative rather than regurgitating info that's already been written.

Keep it up bud.

Gav


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

Thanks again Dave, so this system does sound very good. Being able to acheive correction via DA - which alot of people get used to, or start on, thinking the rotary is a animal lol. Not removing alot of paint for peel removal, whereas wet sanding usually does. And if Gordon or you can find the extra out of this product to remove RDS then it sounds a win-win.

In the video showing correction, using water. That was just to get a longer work time from the polish, and get a flatter finish? Is there a noticable differnce in not using water. I mean, if someone picked this up and didn't experiment with it, and used it without water, are the results still good?


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Yup, the results without water are also very good - this result in the following thread comes from just a first run out with the system, using no water for lengthening the work time:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=225052

Water, in my opinion, is essential to lengthen the work time as the compound does dry quite quickly - after a couple of minutes, as you can see in the video and so a water spray to get longer work times is very beneficial


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Hi Ant
I can confirm that the technique has been mastered, Although certainly harder work. But Rds can bee removed with the D300 and the Mf pads. I have passed on the relevant information to Dave and hopefully we can try and get together and show the method used with great success. Although it is all dependant on the depth of the Rsd you are looking at whether. You would be prepared to use the DA or resort to the rotary for local correction of deeper marks.. I have been working on this Audi Mrc most of the week and It was a typical 8 year old car covered with all types of paint defects as would be expected form a daily runner. The write up will come at some point. But here are a few afters to wet you appetite.

Correction carried out with Da with D300 and Mf cutting pad, refinement on the rotary with 205 on a finishing pad. To guarantee crystal clear clarity and not possible fall back.
Gordon.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

sorry gordon.. touch of topic.. but is that converted for LPG? the seperate filler cap above rear bumper?


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Yes m8 it is. But to my surprise it gets a further 15bhp on gas :lol: not that it needs it.
Its to do with the high octane rating. So so I have been told.


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

Thanks Gordon, Audi's finish is awesome! 

I had no doubt you and Dave would find a way to get RDS removal with this mf system. Even though the majority of correction seems to of been made easier, RDS removal sounds like it isn't easy, so hasn't wiped out the need for Rotary altogether.

Also interesting to see you finished up on the rotary with 205. The compound seems to have won alot of people over already, but for me refining with the finishing wax doesn't seem right. My thinking is as you've done, use a finishing polish and then a dedicated LSP. 

Looking forward to the next write from you, again that Audi looks stunning!


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

The finish wax will have its place, there is no doubt.
But never seen the point of applying the finish wax. When you have to wipe down with IPA or panel wipes to verify a true finish. It is much the same as using LP as a correctional polish. When you have to remove the glazing oils to verify the finish also.
Still both products do what they are meant to and it is down to the individual as any.

But as a possible abrasive paint cleanser or a once a year freshen up. To remove oxidisation it will have its benefits.


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## wedgie (Apr 5, 2008)

Its interesting that Dave's technique is different to the one that Gordon was using last week....

All in , it really does look a good system to have in the arsenal :buffer::buffer:


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

I saw this car this afternoon and can testify to the superb finish Gordon achieved on 8 year old paint with the Meguiar's DA Microfibre System. The finish was stunning, to say the least, and all due credit to Gordon and Dave for exploring and maximising the full potential of this new technology so quickly. :buffer:

The flattening of the orange peel is the biggest revelation to me and, given the poor quality of some manufacturer's paint finishes these days, allows a very acceptable improvement in levelling of the surface without having to resort to wet sanding. 

Thanks for taking the time-out to discuss the above this afternoon Gordon. :thumb:

Alan W


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

wedgie said:


> Its interesting that Dave's technique is different to the one that Gordon was using last week....
> 
> All in , it really does look a good system to have in the arsenal :buffer::buffer:


Different people different techniques. Having been using this correction system quite a bit this week. I have developed a few different techniques when dealing with specific marks. Some are very much not the norm as you would expect to be used on the DA. But the product does seem to adapt in technique and variations. Some are even very similar to style that would be consider the norm on the rotary. There are a great deal still undiscovered with this product as I am sure will be come clear the more people that use it.



Alan W said:


> I saw this car this afternoon and can testify to the superb finish Gordon achieved on 8 year old paint with the Meguiar's DA Microfibre System. The finish was stunning, to say the least, and all due credit to Gordon and Dave for exploring and maximising the full potential of this new technology so quickly. :buffer:
> 
> The flattening of the orange peel is the biggest revelation to me and, given the poor quality of some manufacturer's paint finishes these days, allows a very acceptable improvement in levelling of the surface without having to resort to wet sanding.
> 
> ...


Was a pleasure as always Alan, and thanks for the kind comments. They are much appreciated. 
Gordon.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

And there will be a lot more testing and a lot more information posts going up from Gordon and myself over the coming weeks as we discover the full ins and outs of the product... it is not simply a new product here to save time in correction and to treat it as such fails to understand it in my personal opinion. It is a big step forward for the DA in many areas, and we are just discovering what all of these are at the moment. Stay tuned, as they say :thumb:


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## Dingo2002 (Apr 4, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> ...On this finish, which is medium on this bonnet (the car was a patchwork quilt of paints!!), around 4um of paint has been removed so the correction system is not removing large amounts of paint which would explain why deeper RDS are not removed but are softened. The system seem to correct by leveling more than foam does, but removes less paint....


Dave, could this be due to measuring the paint at a high point in the the peel effect on the lacquer prior to polishing and perhaps measuring a lower area in the peel effect following correction?


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## Mr Singh (Apr 4, 2006)

Now why wasn't this around when I wet sanded my Altezza.. 

Looks good, and even with extra sets taking time as a whole its less time taxing that wetstanding, compounding, refinishing etc.. if you can do it in 1 go.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Dingo2002 said:


> Dave, could this be due to measuring the paint at a high point in the the peel effect on the lacquer prior to polishing and perhaps measuring a lower area in the peel effect following correction?


Yup, there is a chance of this for sure - future test will use multiple regions to put this idea to the test and see what happens :thumb:


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## ClioToby (Oct 22, 2009)

Dave, how do you find this system via rotary? 

Appears to have a long work time from the video you posted. Very attractive option for removing peel, im torn between this and P1 - Perhaops I could combine the MF pads with P1?

Thanks.


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## wedgie (Apr 5, 2008)

I think its for DA only mate

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


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## ratty (Aug 18, 2010)

Found when using even a bit too much polish it will clog up pad instantly and it's not getting job done. Got best results when there was only haze left behind when going over the area first time. Cleaning the pad with compressed air every 2 mins or so also made it faster. Took out deep scratch (could easily feel it with finger) from Kia paint in just over 2 mins.


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