# How to use one step polishes?



## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

I was chatting with my mate today and he mentioned something about one step polishes that is new to me. Polishes being spoken about are Scholl S20B and Sonax Perfect Finish. I work either of them on a LCHT Tangerine polishing pad and since both are DAT, abrasives break down after the initial cut. Then I ease off the pressure and let it finish to a brilliant gloss. My mate suggested that after the abrasives break down, We should change to the finishing pad as you can never finish well with a polishing pad. What do you think?


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## cleancar (Sep 21, 2006)

with sonax perfect finish which is my current favourite i just use only a finishing pad on my own cars as they normally only need a freshen up


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## torkertony (Jan 9, 2013)

I have used S20B on a LCHT Cyan Pad and it finished down great. I didn't see any need to then use a LCHT Crimson Pad. Like anything detailing related, it's trial and error and what works for some, might not always suit somebody else.

This was on very hard Audi paint.


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## linuxmanju (Oct 12, 2013)

A free bump as I also want to know more.

Imho, finishing what one gets is a combination of pad and polish. If it was polish alone then you would never need so many pads.. Right?. You can never get the same level of finishing with a finishing polish and an Orange pad compared to finishing polish and polishing/finishing pad.

One step polishes (s20 or SPF) does not necessarily mean one pad system. On a medium or soft Paint it makes sense to swap the pad to finish down to a high gloss. This again is based on my understanding that DAT polishes break down to finer abrasives when worked. Will wait for others input.


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## Socal Brian (Dec 4, 2011)

I agree with you but with that being said and depending on paint type and condition you may also be able to begin and end with the finishing pad since the abrasives are not broken down yet at the outset and will begin with greater cut but will finish to your satisfaction with the finishing pad. Again, there will be instances where multiple pad types will be more suitable. Will vary from car to car. IMHO


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

I'd like to point out that we are referring to one step polishes when they are used to remove paint imperfection and finish down LSP ready at the same time. For example, I'd expect a S20B or Sonax Perfect Finish to correct upto 2500 grit and that is only possible on a polishing pad, not a finishing pad. While I agree that everything is polish and pad dependant, I am of the opinion that the same polishing pad can be used to finish LSP ready. The pad has cut when you put pressure on it and increase the RPM during the initial phase of a DAT polish. Once the abrasives have broken down and you remove the pressure on the pad, lower the speed; I think you can finish down LSP ready. On very soft Japanese paint, you may only need a finishing pad. On hard German paint, you may need to use a compounding pad first. But I am more concerned about paint where compounding is not required but a polishing pad is needed to remove 2500 grit marks.

Will a second set with the same polish and a finishing pad help? I guess an additional step will always add something but that would be optional.


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

Selfish Bump


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

I think that it's eye of beholder.


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## scratcher (Jul 20, 2010)

Flakey said:


> Will a second set with the same polish and a finishing pad help? I guess an additional step will always add something but that would be optional.


It depends on the paint type really.
On harder/intermediate paints I've found Sonax Perfect Finish to cut very well with a White Hexlogic pad (polishing) and finish down extremely well.
But on softer paint I've had to go back with a finishing pad on a couple of cars.
Saying that, I've started out with a Black (finishing) Hexlogic pad on a soft Honda and managed to get a perfect finish (excuse the pun) in one step.

It's the same process as always though. Start with the least aggressive and work up if needed. It just makes it a little simpler that you're only changing pad and not different polishes too.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

I think it depends on the polishing pad in question and also the paint you're working on. Another factor is what you're trying/hoping to achieve. 

On softer paints I've worked on (Fiat/Ford) I found a Menzerna polishing pad with PF2500 finished down fine but there was definitely more gloss from using a finishing pad and a less abrasive polish afterwards. On the other hand, a white Hexlogic pad with PF2500 on VAG paint is perfect IMO. I've tried FF3000 on a black pad after this and IMO achieved no more gloss (although perhaps it was there if we used a glossmeter).


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## Otto (Feb 2, 2013)

Rotary + 3M Yellow Pad + Menz PF2400/2500
This is a baseline one step for me.
It goes without saying this will yield different results for every car but as a rule I find this provides me good correction with an excellent finish.
You can just hit a section a few times if you need to but generally is all good.

I should add that although 3M Yellow Pad is a polishing pad, it is fairly soft in comparison to others so may not be as high a level of cut as other polishing pad experiences hence better finishing in my opinion.


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## chewy_ (Mar 5, 2014)

Flakey said:


> I was chatting with my mate today and he mentioned something about one step polishes that is new to me. Polishes being spoken about are Scholl S20B and Sonax Perfect Finish. I work either of them on a LCHT Tangerine polishing pad and since both are DAT, abrasives break down after the initial cut. Then I ease off the pressure and let it finish to a brilliant gloss. My mate suggested that after the abrasives break down, We should change to the finishing pad as you can never finish well with a polishing pad. What do you think?


How are you to know exactly when the abbrasives break down?


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

Zenith point?


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

chewy_ said:


> How are you to know exactly when the abbrasives break down?


Generally when the polish goes clear, looks more like oil on the paint.


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## Shining (Jan 6, 2014)

Basically here is my take- when you are doing a medium to soft paint, rarely do you need a finishing polish as a MUST unless you want that extra bit. You can go to LSP because you do not see holograms, buffer swirls, haze etc.
However when you do a compound and if you are on a black car or soft paint with a compound( like on Honda paints) there are few cases where you are LSP ready and THAT is where you relish a product that can give you a finish with one step. I have used PF2500 from Menzerna or FG 400 to have a finish ready for LSP, M 105 also and Scholls S3 Gold plus S17. 
Heavy compounds- nothing beats the way S3 Gold can give you a LSP ready surface on almost ALL types of paints.
That said- if you try Compound- Finish- LSP AND Compound-LSP and compare your finish and you feel there is REAL need for a finishing polish, then add that extra step!
Of Course with a finishing step that "extra" is achieved but after LSP, can that difference be seen? If yes then a strong case for the add on step OR when compounding leaves surface with haze


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## linuxmanju (Oct 12, 2013)

chewy_ said:


> How are you to know exactly when the abbrasives break down?


s20b and SPF both go clear, atleast that's what I take it as an indication that the abrasives have broken down.

Back to the core question and to give a shameless selfish bump to the thread. " Will switching pads for final passes add anything extra to the finish?". Personally I have seen it adding something extra to the finish on my soft/medium Fiat paint. What I want to learn here is that, is it a placebo or actually it helps.


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

It could be placebo depending on your other medication 

Honestly, I don't think its placebo and people who claim that they don't need a finishing step should try it and see what they are missing. I have seen some people in my neighborhood who compound with M105 and then go straight to something like Opti Coat when there are clearly buffer trails present. Their claim is that M105 finishes LSP ready. I guess to each his own.

I guess you and I can both switch practices and I will use a finishing pad next time while you try to finish with a polishing pad, preferably a Sonax orange pad with SPF and then we can compare results since both of us have the same fiat paint.


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## Shining (Jan 6, 2014)

Flakey said:


> It could be placebo depending on your other medication
> 
> Honestly, I don't think its placebo and people who claim that they don't need a finishing step should try it and see what they are missing. I have seen some people in my neighborhood who compound with M105 and then go straight to something like Opti Coat when there are clearly buffer trails present. Their claim is that M105 finishes LSP ready. I guess to each his own.
> 
> ...


It does finish, but not with rotary and wool pad. As mentioned, the machine and pad used and paint - all make the final finish. I have used M105( and similar) and finish is ready for LSP with a DA, added a finishing polish and then applied LSP to compare with Minus finishing polish side by side. I could see some difference( minor), showed to a few more, they had NO clue what i am talking about :lol:


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

Shining said:


> It does finish, but not with rotary and wool pad. As mentioned, the machine and pad used and paint - all make the final finish. I have used M105( and similar) and finish is ready for LSP with a DA, added a finishing polish and then applied LSP to compare with Minus finishing polish side by side. I could see some difference( minor), showed to a few more, they had NO clue what i am talking about :lol:


As for your own car, you can skin your cat any way you want :thumb:
If you're a professional detailer, you're not going any where near my car 



Otto said:


> Rotary + 3M Yellow Pad + Menz PF2400/2500
> This is a baseline one step for me.
> It goes without saying this will yield different results for every car but as a rule I find this provides me good correction with an excellent finish.
> You can just hit a section a few times if you need to but generally is all good.
> ...


Very well said Otto. This is exactly the kind of feedback I was seeking. Thank You for sharing. I understand that the 3M Yellow pad is rather softy and only has some mechanical cut but it is a polishing pad capable of correction and you are able to finish down well with just one pad.


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## Otto (Feb 2, 2013)

As you were mentioning about other pads finishing down that added bit better I will honestly state that I have felt that the 3M Blue Pad with SF4000/4500 finishes down amzingly!!

The blue pad is so soft and the SF4000/4500 works so smooth I really do feel that it does boost the gloss especially with a rotary.

If I'm correct the general feeling is that using a finishing pad and finishing polish does give the most desired results and the term is known as 'Jewlling'.


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

I have laborated with using the same polish and switch pads after the polish have begun to break down. The polish I used was Menzerna PO203S and the pads where orange and red coolshine from Flexipads.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=140523


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

Porta said:


> I have laborated with using the same polish and switch pads after the polish have begun to break down. The polish I used was Menzerna PO203S and the pads where orange and red coolshine from Flexipads.
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=140523


When you change from a polishing to a finishing pad, do you use any polish on the finishing pad or just use it dry on the residue left over from the polishing stage? I know it's a daft question, but it came up in a discussion.


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

I did not add any more polish; I´ll just used the "residues".


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## chewy_ (Mar 5, 2014)

Porta said:


> I have laborated with using the same polish and switch pads after the polish have begun to break down. The polish I used was Menzerna PO203S and the pads where orange and red coolshine from Flexipads.
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=140523


Good to know. How about the result though? Did you do a 50/50 or anything to check the differences. Half bonnet with same polish and pad. And the other with same polish/ polishing pad then revert to finish pad once abbrasives broken down?

Any differences to report?


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## linuxmanju (Oct 12, 2013)

chewy_ said:


> Good to know. How about the result though? Did you do a 50/50 or anything to check the differences. Half bonnet with same polish and pad. And the other with same polish/ polishing pad then revert to finish pad once abbrasives broken down?
> 
> Any differences to report?


I think in the same thread, he says he used only one pad on the Driver side and two pads on the passenger side ( switch method). Both have finished pictures :thumb:.


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

Since I live in the civilized part of the world, Scandinavia, the driver side is on the left side if I remember right it was a slightly difference in gloss - more on the right side - but it was hard to judge.


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## chewy_ (Mar 5, 2014)

linuxmanju said:


> I think in the same thread, he says he used only one pad on the Driver side and two pads on the passenger side ( switch method). Both have finished pictures :thumb:.


Cheers mate, only just seen that link. Even from a photo, the difference between the driver side and passenger seems to be noticeable. Seems to be well worth finishing up with a dedicated pad:thumb:


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

I have not seen the pictures since 2009 and I think it's hard to see differences on pictures but, as I wrote above, I think it was more gloss on the side I used the finishing pad. But a finishing pad will give better gloss then a polishing pad, it's in the nature of the product. I know that Todd Helme, famous from autopiaforums, also started to do this after I posted this experiment and he also liked it. Nowadays I do mostly onesteppers and I almost only use Sonax Perfect finish, maybee 95 % of the times.

Scholl Concepts S30+, S17 and Menzerna PO203S/PO203/PO234 are also great polishes.


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## chewy_ (Mar 5, 2014)

Porta said:


> I have not seen the pictures since 2009 and I think it's hard to see differences on pictures but, as I wrote above, I think it was more gloss on the side I used the finishing pad. But a finishing pad will give better gloss then a polishing pad, it's in the nature of the product. I know that Todd Helme, famous from autopiaforums, also started to do this after I posted this experiment and he also liked it. Nowadays I do mostly onesteppers and I almost only use Sonax Perfect finish, maybee 95 % of the times.
> 
> Scholl Concepts S30+, S17 and Menzerna PO203S/PO203/PO234 are also great polishes.


Todd Helme seems to be a good bloke. Full of praise for Chemical Guys Blacklight. I think that he highly rates the Blackfire range as well. I think the only reason I bought my Sonus der wonder towels was because of a suggestion made by him.


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

So far we have only discussed DAT polishes for one step application as they finish well due to the abrasives being rapidly broken down. How do non-diminishing (SMAT) polishes work for one step application as the abrasives won't break down at all? Example - Optimum GPS, Optimum Poli Seal, Meguiar's Paint Reconditioning Cream etc. Is it fair to say that DAT will always finish better than SMAT? I have never used a SMAT finishing polish or AIO.


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

Flakey said:


> ... Is it fair to say that DAT will always finish better than SMAT? ....


I would suggest SMAT/DA are just a different way to getting the same results with probably a high degree of personal preference.


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

I agree about the personal preference but there's got to be a significant difference in how they cut or how they finish as the abrasives in one are always the same size and in the other they start big and finish rather small. Just trying to understand that.


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## Otto (Feb 2, 2013)

I would be inclined to say that I am in favour of Menz SF4000/4500 as a finishing polish. IMO it gives an unparrelled finish and the gloss is incredible.

Ultimately, it will depend on the polish and the paint. Also you can't really do a fair comparitive test as each polish is different in it's own right. By it's nature, same as waxes, the use, choice and preference of polishes/compounds is SUBJECTIVE.


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## jmsc (Jun 13, 2012)

I know that the resellers and Scholls recommend changing to a finishing/jewelling pad after using their polishes after 1-2 mins. Its up to your judgement. I've done both methods. It appears to me to be no better or worse either way.


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