# A real 240 volt alternative to the PC!!!!



## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

Yes, you've read it right, something we've all been looking for!!!

The Flex XC 3401 VRG (!) is a random orbit with forced rotary polisher, specifically designed for car polishing. Brief spec is:

Orbit 8mm (half the PC but more than other sanders)
Orbit rate 3200 - 9600 (PC 2500 - 6500)
Forced rotation 160 - 480 rpm (PC is free rotation)
Input 900 watts (PC 410 watts)
Weight 5.75lbs (PC 6.25lbs)

In theory its a cross between a random orbit and a rotary, and should have a lot more cut than a PC but should not leave holograms etc, sounds like just what we want!!!

Now the bad news!!! I will quote from the supplier I have found who has been very helpful:



> The Flex brand has such a highly regarded reputation for it's quality that I'm sure they will make a very good impression - I am very keen to start
> supporting this unit early, so these are the best possible prices I can
> offer to you:
> 
> ...


Now that might seem a lot, but given its a much more capable machine than the PC with a good reputation for lasting a long time, and will provide the pros with something approaching rotary power with the safety of random orbit, it begins to make very good sense.

I just need to chat the supplier up to getting a free sample!!!! ( my thinking is we could circulate this around some of the experienced users of PCs/Rotaries and get some reviews)

brochure can be found here:

http://www.flex-tools.com/gb/Produkte/Polierer/XC_3401_VRG/XC_3401_VRG_accessoires.pdf

from which you will see this is a full professional piece of kit, suspect it will vibrate significantly less than the PC which will be a benefit .

As you see a group buy could be very worthwhile.......


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

but you could get a pc kit and a makita for that price? best of both worlds then


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## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

And if it's the fact that it's 240v that is the main attraction then don't forget that Megs will be bringing one out later this year (June/July IIRC) which got some favourable comments by those that got to play with it at the Megs open day


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

Its also got forced rotation and a smaller orbit that means it should vibrate less but have more defect removal power. No one seems to know whether the megs one is forced rotation or not - and the Megs launch date seems to keep moving back


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## Tricky Red (Mar 3, 2007)

Qty 2 - £244.95exc VAT/£287.82inc VAT - 37.8% off List Price
Qty 20 - £219.95exc VAT/£258.44inc VAT - 44.1% off List Price


Looks like a pretty good deal to me, bearing in mind that a full PC kit would be in the region of £200 and I guess that you would get full UK warranty with the Flex version. 

My question would be whether all the pads that a PC can take would be compatible or do you have to use the bespoke ones?


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

only thing i can see is that the proper pads have a centering hole which may/may not be required....


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## wassap (Feb 23, 2007)

Tricky Red said:


> Qty 2 - £244.95exc VAT/£287.82inc VAT - 37.8% off List Price
> Qty 20 - £219.95exc VAT/£258.44inc VAT - 44.1% off List Price
> 
> Looks like a pretty good deal to me, bearing in mind that a full PC kit would be in the region of £200 and I guess that you would get full UK warranty with the Flex version.
> ...


Full PC kit is only 209 dollars, with all the discounts and favourable exch rate, a PC is still cheaper and thats with the tranny, the flex unit looks fairly basic in terms of whats included with it.


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2007)

Not too different from the Makita BO6040 which can be obtained for about £200.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

the makita dula action thing is a sander and the speeds are way to high for paint polishing even the lowest speed is faster than i ever go on a roto

that Flex thing looks top tho im already considering it


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## andburg (Feb 13, 2006)

Def be interested in this if you can use the packing plates/pads from the PC as the noise and vibration can be annoying at times


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Ok we will be getting the first one in the country to try on demo ......so watch this space ... will be approx 3 weeks


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2007)

james b said:


> the makita dula action thing is a sander and the speeds are way to high for paint polishing even the lowest speed is faster than i ever go on a roto
> 
> that Flex thing looks top tho im already considering it


The PC is a sander too. Actually, that Flex has a higher OPM than the Makita. The BO6040 has been a long known alternative to the PC, just no where near as popular.


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

heres the instruction manual

http://www.flex-tools.com/Technische_Dokumentation/Bedienungsanleitungen/FLEX_XC3401VRG.pdf

looks like any normal pads will fit the hole in the centre is so you can line it up by eye......
Jamesb, there is orbit speed and rotation speed, its the forced rotary that matters and at a max of 480 rpm it should be ideal for us....


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Just what I've been looking for too! Good find and well done! :thumb: 

However, can it be fitted with a smaller (4") backing plate to take spot pads?

If it performs well in the DW trials and can take smaller pads you can count me in.  

Alan W


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

doesnt look like it will take smaller pads (the gearing for the forced rotation is part of the backing pad) BUT it wont need them the forced rotation will give it far more cutting power on the larger pads. The only reason to put 4" pads on a pc is to allow them to spin at higher pressures and increase the polishing power.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Spot pads are also useful on small cars like our Mini's, not just for increased 'cutting' ability!

Alan W


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

yes I have an original mini and often use the 4" pads on that but I can use the 150mm one just as well. If I get one it will be as well as my PC but I'm a tool geek!!!


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

looks ok if you can get one at the 20 price, but at the single price, hell no


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Having had a look at the manual this looks like a very impressive tool *designed for polishing car paint* and not a sander cum polisher like the PC 7424, DW443, BO6040 etc.

The build quality looks very good and it appears a 'professional' tool unlike the 'hobby range' PC7424. In this commercial age price is often a good indicator of quality and German manufacture is well respected.

I mean no disrespect to the humble PC, which has thousands of happy detailers around the world using it, I'm just trying to open peoples eyes to something that I think deserves serious consideration even at the posted price.

Time will tell if it's as good as it looks but I for one can't wait for the DW trials to begin! :lol:

Whizzer, why 3 weeks?

Alan W


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

^^^^agree 100% this looks like a serious bit of kit....even at the price, as you say its looking very promising....


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

I've been doing some more research on Flextool this morning and discovered the following:

_The company known as Flex has had a somewhat tumultuous history. Although production and manufacturing have remained constant, the company has changed hands numerous times. The company began as an entity called Ackermann & Schmitt and eventually adopted the Flextool name. They developed a strong reputation for producing quality power tools for the European market before eventually joining with *Flex Porter-Cable*, a well-known U.S. tool producer based in Jackson, Tennessee.

Under its partnership with *Porter-Cable*, which maintained the manufacturing facility in Steinheim, Germany, continuing to sell Flex brand tools, the group created many innovative tool designs including the first helical drive circular saw and the TigerClaw saw with adjustable head.

In 1996, Pentair Tools Group purchased Flextool along with *Porter-Cable*, and Pentair sold the companies to Black & Decker in October of 2004.

Throughout its history, Flextool, in conjunction with *Porter-Cable* produced a line of power tools that includes several types of grinders/polishers, wet edge milling machines, drills for natural stone, core drills and rigs, dust extractors, angle grinders, metal surface treatment tools and an array of accessories for all of its different tools._

A small world isn't it! :lol:

Alan W


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Phisp said:


> The PC is a sander too. Actually, that Flex has a higher OPM than the Makita. The BO6040 has been a long known alternative to the PC, just no where near as popular.


i have not pesonaly used one but on the rotary mode it is too fast, i have been through all this on another site and i was proven right, sorry it may well be ok as dula action?


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

> i have not pesonaly used one but on the rotary mode it is too fast, i have been through all this on another site and i was proven right, sorry it may well be ok as dula action?


???????????????????

The PC random orbits 2500- 6500, the 6040 1600- 5800 witha throw of just 5mm against the PCs 19mm. The rotary speeds are from 180 - 670, where typically a rotary might be used at 900 rpm or even 1500.

You seem to have convinced yourself you are right so we'll just disagree on this one........but the numbers dont in any way shape or form support your comments!!!


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## fpan (Mar 16, 2007)

I am looking forward to the test results.
Is this safe on a novice's hand? 
I have never used a power tool for polishing.


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Alan W said:


> Having had a look at the manual this looks like a very impressive tool *designed for polishing car paint* and not a sander cum polisher like the PC 7424, DW443, BO6040 etc.
> 
> The build quality looks very good and it appears a 'professional' tool unlike the 'hobby range' PC7424. In this commercial age price is often a good indicator of quality and German manufacture is well respected.
> 
> ...


Its such a new machine there is not one in the Uk .. been told direct by flex the order went in on Friday and should be here 2-3 weeks .... so cant wait to try :thumb:


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## micken (Jan 12, 2007)

Before I bought my PC I emailed PC UK about the prospect of a UK model and their reply quoted an interest in this model. It's still not a PC though. Occasionally there is a ********** tool that does the job in a way that no other does. Build quality, feel, ease of use, safe for novices, range of appications.

That's what a PC is, the ********** tool for the job.

Flex is close for Euro & UK market, but it's not a PC. The 8mm throw on it's orbit might be a limiting feature.


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## GlynRS2 (Jan 21, 2006)

I do like the look of this tool.
It is a purpose built polisher, the ergonomics of the front and rear handles look perfect and the speed control and trigger are also in just the right place.
Now if it were half the price, I am sure that it would take the market by storm!


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

WHIZZER said:


> Its such a new machine there is not one in the Uk .. been told direct by flex the order went in on Friday and should be here 2-3 weeks .... so cant wait to try :thumb:


Thanks Bill! :thumb:

Looking forward to the DW trials and review! :buffer:

Alan W


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

> Flex is close for Euro & UK market, but it's not a PC. The 8mm throw on it's orbit might be a limiting feature.


The PC gets its cut from the throw, that is true, but I think you are missing the forced rotation, it is this that will do the cutting, the random orbit at 8mm is enough to avoid any holograms and surface marring. The hallowed PC (i have one) was designed asa sander and it happens to work well as a polisher, the flex has been designed as a car polisher from the outset, its the right shape and weight (lighter than a PC), I think if there is going to be a ********** tool the flex will take over from the PC.

The flex is very promising, like the others I am looking forward to the tests, if it works as it should we ought to somewhere approaching the power of the rotary with the safety of the PC, perfect!!!


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## Spirit Detailing (Mar 29, 2007)

Very expensive. My local supplier in Dublin has the DA polisher kit in stock and it costs about €330 Excl Vat. Thats a lot cheaper than you guys are being charged....


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

^^^^^^Ah but we have something up our sleeve, watch this space!!!!!


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## leistrum (Feb 10, 2007)

Very interested to read all this as was just about to buy the Makita BO6040, Not sure I can stretch to the flex price though (although 330 euros sound good!) . Has anyone here got the Makita BO6040? With some of the comments I'm on this thread I'm thinking twicw now!


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

leistrum said:


> Very interested to read all this as was just about to buy the Makita BO6040, Not sure I can stretch to the flex price though (although 330 euros sound good!) . Has anyone here got the Makita BO6040? With some of the comments I'm on this thread I'm thinking twicw now!


I, too, was very interested in the Makita BO6040 and before that considered the DeWalt DW443. Both these machines have some users here and in the US but they are primarily sanders and not purpose designed polishers like the FLEX XC 3401 VRG.

I'm sure if you can wait another couple of weeks your patience will be rewarded once the DW Trials by Whizzer and Co. begin. 

I'm working on something now with regard to the price of the FLEX machine and will reveal all in the not-to-distant future if I'm successfull. 

Alan


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## leistrum (Feb 10, 2007)

Thanks Dave for the message, and Alan for reply - I will wait! (And my Wifes Car insurance renewal just materialised so its partially enforced:thumb: ) This Flex polisher does sound good. Reason I considered the Makita was I have bmw paint and I was worried pc may not give enough cut. Plus I'm hoping that eventually once I've gained enough experience I could start part time detailing and wanted a tool that will cope with everything. Looking forward to hearing the verdict! Cheers Ian


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## The Big Yin (Apr 8, 2006)

330 euro's that a bargain Im gonna keep an eye out for this as i was thinking of ordering a pc in the near future


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## TopMarques (Sep 22, 2006)

£250 each from here http://www.yatego.com/angeloshop/p,...polierer?sid=05Y1175731500Y17f38dc2d79b37f8dc

£230 (£277 and it comes with a nifty bag and some megs) here and you can take your pic from different polishers..........do we have any German speakers on board? http://www.baukreis.de/produkte/index.php3?p=FX&s=&pg=103&pos=


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

or €355 here

http://www.petzoldts.de/shop/product_info.php?cPath=1_20&products_id=999

and its in english, carriage is €13 so around £245 delivered, and the pads are reasonable - useful supplier (thanks leistrum)

Looks like the UK suppliers are going to have to sharpen their pencils, now all we need is a sticky on how to import a flex!!!!

Wouldnt be surprised if one of the German suppliers would do a bulk buy............

Now all we need is someone to get their hands on one and post a report...!!!


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

This machine is not so very good, I have been talking to four different guys, and all told me the same

"Vibrate a lot! After a day your hands and arms are numb" 

"Not so effective on swirls, scratches and etc"

A friend will send me a test machine he borrowed from Flex

I would not buy it before testing since all I know who have tested it told me it was crap.


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## Doublemint1984 (Mar 19, 2007)

Doesn't look crap to me though. :thumb: 

Nice color too :lol:


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2007)

I'm looking forward to a review of this polisher. I've been trying to find a review of the BO6040 that was posted to Megs UK forum (I think) around 2-3 years ago. 

I seem to remember that in pure RO mode it was not as effective as a PC, which wasn't suprising since its opm range and thow (orbit diameter) are less:
XC3401: 3200-9600 opm, 8.0mm throw, 160-480 rpm
BO6040: 1600-5800 opm, 5.5mm throw, 180-670 rpm
PC7424: 2500-6000 opm, 23.8mm throw

However, when used in forced rotation mode then things got significantly better and the BO6040 performed better than a PC. Trouble is, I can't remember how much better.


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

Doublemint1984 said:


> Doesn't look crap to me though. :thumb:
> 
> Nice color too :lol:


You arent polishing with the design 

I love Flex polisher, and using their small rotary L3403VRG.

I am just telling what my friends where telling me, but I must test it before I can say anything more.


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## DrWho (Apr 3, 2007)

I am very curious te read more about this device and I truly hope this will be a good alternative for a PC, since getting one over here seems to be not that easy.

As a novice to polishingdevices it needs to be somewhat of "foolproof", but ofcourse only testing & trying will get it right. It's more expensive than a PC, but I'm willing to invest that money...


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## Doublemint1984 (Mar 19, 2007)

^^^^
What he said 

From Belgium too. Hi from Luxembourg :wave: 

Not easy to find an alternative too the holy grail called PC :devil:


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## Qualitytools (Apr 3, 2007)

*Started a New Post*

Hi,

My name is Dean Rowe, Managing Director of Quality Tools Ltd - it is my company who will be supplying DW with the first unit available in the UK. I've posted some information here - http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=27478 - to give you all an update on the situation.


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## leistrum (Feb 10, 2007)

Today I used a big makita angle grinder (borrowed) 110v with transformer to cut paving slabs. After picking up the transformer - pretty weighty - I don't need to think twice about whether or not I'd go for one of these over a porter cable, i'll be getting the flex!


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

yes the transformers are heavy, but its not that much of an issue, I keep mine in the front corner of my garage, with a decent extention lead. I can easily reach all of my cars and my neighbours without moving the tfr.

Would still go for the flex tho If I hadnt got the PC the forced rotation will give a lot more paint correcting power....


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## leistrum (Feb 10, 2007)

Wish I had the luxury of a garage Dave! One reason we may be moving! I was thinking that transformer would be just one more weighty thing to lug around in the boot if I did get (eventually after plenty of practice!) into detailing as a part time job. The day I get the polisher gets a bit closer and Alex S has kindly agreed to sell me some lake country pads so I can stop talking about it and actually do it!


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## Fizz (Oct 24, 2007)

Hello, im new to this forum. Im still trying to decide between the BO6040 and XC3401VRG, and im leaning towards the flex after reading the good reviews about it. Flex seems to be slightly cheaper, but the Makita has dual mode selection. 

Since the Flex is constantly on forced rotation, could it be used for apply waxes and sealants? Also, which brand of pads would suit the Flex best (in terms of compatability with the backing plate)?


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## ZoranC (Jun 9, 2007)

Fizz said:


> Im still trying to decide between the BO6040 and XC3401VRG, and im leaning towards the flex after reading the good reviews about it. Flex seems to be slightly cheaper, but the Makita has dual mode selection.


I have no hands-on experience with BO6040 but as an ex-owner of Festool RO 150FEQ and current owner of Bosch 1250DEVS I have a hands-on experience with tools of at least equal, if not better, specs. If I would have to choose between Flex XC 3401 VRG (which I also own) and Bosch 1250DEVS I would without thinking twice choose Flex. Therefore I would most likely do same if BO6040 was in place of 1250DEVS.

Honestly, when one thinks of buying Flex whether it can be used to apply waxes/sealants does not figure as a selection criteria. You either want/need best corrective abilities out there (short of rotary) and that matters most to you or you don't.


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## Fizz (Oct 24, 2007)

Thanks for the advice mate. Interestingly i was also tossing up a 3rd option, which is the Bosch GEX150Turbo (identical to 1250DEVS) because it too has dual mode like the makita.

However, i've since decided not to go for the Bosch because of fears that the it would not be compatible with my current CCS pads (i was told they dont grab well to CCS pads).

Zoran what pads have you used with your Bosch, and what make you prefer Flex over the Bosch?


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## ZoranC (Jun 9, 2007)

Fizz said:


> Thanks for the advice mate. Interestingly i was also tossing up a 3rd option, which is the Bosch GEX150Turbo (identical to 1250DEVS) because it too has dual mode like the makita.
> 
> However, i've since decided not to go for the Bosch because of fears that the it would not be compatible with my current CCS pads (i was told they dont grab well to CCS pads).
> 
> Zoran what pads have you used with your Bosch, and what make you prefer Flex over the Bosch?


Any time :thumb:

I have used a variety of pads, including CCS one's, sold by different vendors in States with one thing common to all of them: they are all manufactured by Lake Country. Never had issue with "grip". Actually, backing plate on my 1250DEVS is very grippy.

Here is why I prefer Flex XC 3401 VRG over Bosch 1250DEVS:

- I feel Flex has more correctional ability (and it better should considering it has been designed to be DA polisher in automotive industry and has significantly more OPMs, bigger throw and more amps)

- I feel Flex' design has been done with ergonomics of paint polishing in mind which makes my day more pleasant in the end. I feel "flat laying" tools like rotaries and Flex are better fit for that. I feel "vertically oriented" tools like PC/UDM/Festool/Bosch are not, that their design is better fit for what is their primary purpose, which is sanding (well, one can argue that is not the case for UDM as UDM's primary purpose is not sanding but as far as I a concerned with UDM being PC-like if it walks like a duck ...). For example, put Bosch at full speed in turbo mode and it will try to skitter on you (PC/UDM/Festool will too). Put Flex at full speed and it will try to walk on you. I hate skitter compared to walking. Why? Walking is easily correctable / controllable and it's direction is in the plane tool's bp is in. Tool will not flip because of it. Skittering is in the plane perpendicular to plane bp is in, tool wants to flip out underneath you because of it, which is very hard to prevent (especially as tool is more powerful and speed increases, plus rotation is on your wrist), and when it does flip out edge of rotating backing plate plus tool itself will hit againts the paint. So I give higher preference to tools with design that will not do that.


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## Fizz (Oct 24, 2007)

Ah i see....thanks once again for your input  All the more reason to choose the Flex then. Its gonna be a big investment, but im sure the Flex will justify itself once i start using it. If its not too troublesome, mind sending me pics of both these machines side by side?


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## ZoranC (Jun 9, 2007)

Fizz said:


> If its not too troublesome, mind sending me pics of both these machines side by side?


There is already quite a number of them in my gallery on Autopia.


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## Fizz (Oct 24, 2007)

ZoranC said:


> There is already quite a number of them in my gallery on Autopia.


Right...i'll go check them out over there :thumb:


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## m33ufo (Oct 16, 2007)

What is the current position with the FLEX? Was it ever tested? What's the current price?

Could be what I'm looking for, had pretty much decided on the Metabo PE12-175 but I'm a beginner so perhaps the FLEX (if it's at a reasonable price) would be a better alternative.


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## ZoranC (Jun 9, 2007)

m33ufo said:


> What is the current position with the FLEX? Was it ever tested? What's the current price?
> 
> Could be what I'm looking for, had pretty much decided on the Metabo PE12-175 but I'm a beginner so perhaps the FLEX (if it's at a reasonable price) would be a better alternative.


As being the very first one that posted on Autopia about (my purchase of) it I've in one way or the other "contributed" to consenquent number of reviews of it over there so you might want to check them out like I suggested to others earlier.

Abbreviated version is that everyone that I know of that owns it has fell in love with and finds it worth every penny. Metabo is a fine rotary (I have one) but unless you are very experienced rotary master you are better off with Flex when all you care about is getting work done without complications. Especially when you are in front of two cars with black paint that multiplies your every mistake, like I have.


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## Fizz (Oct 24, 2007)

I know according to the specs it says the machine itself it approx 2.7kg. But can anyone tell me whats the total weight of the entire packaging? A dealer quoted me shipping rates for 6kg!?  Is that correct?


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