# TCP parking ticket - £ yeah right.



## mart. (Jul 7, 2008)

Mrs Came home from Asda today with a parking ticket from TCP (town and city parking) £70 fine. she was in bit of a state. 

After a brief look on the net it seems that the best thing to do is ignore it! 

another thing, on the ticket it says the colour of the car is Grey but the car is blue :lol:


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## ICF (May 18, 2012)

They can't prove who was driving the car.


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## Maxtor (Feb 23, 2007)

Just out of interest, why was the ticket issued?


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## mart. (Jul 7, 2008)

No Parent and child spaces, one 5 year old and 5 month old in car. So she parked in disabled as here was 9 spaces free. 
So technically she's right to have been fine but common sense says it was ok.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Bin it, it's nothing more than scrap paper.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

never bin it, always keep correspondence, just dont reply to it


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

You will probably get a letter through the post, and another... The final one usually says your going to court which again you can ignore, they very rarely go that far. From what I remember they cannot fine you on private property but do you research before taking notice of the Internet


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## durmz (Nov 2, 2010)

Never heard of town and city parking, the very particular point is to make sure its not from the council, if its a private firm then ignore it, anything council based will haunt you they dont give up and will win


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## PaulTheo (Sep 26, 2010)

Pay it disabled spaces are for disabled people.


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## mart. (Jul 7, 2008)

http://www.townandcityparking.co.uk/

Formed in 1993, Town and City Parking (TCP) is now one of the largest and fastest growing car parking management companies in the UK.


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## mart. (Jul 7, 2008)

PaulTheo said:


> Pay it disabled spaces are for disabled people.


was expecting that reply at some point.

Parent and child spaces are for parents and children, get my point :thumb:


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

Ignore it , Wipe your backside with it if you want


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

mart. said:


> was expecting that reply at some point.
> 
> Parent and child spaces are for parents and children, get my point :thumb:


How do you know they were being abused? They might have been genuinely full. The spaces on a car park are discretionary, there's nothing legally binding to say they're only for disabled or parent and child.


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## PaulTheo (Sep 26, 2010)

OK so just a free for all then:thumb:


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

PaulTheo said:


> OK so just a free for all then:thumb:


Yes if you're that selfish.


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## mart. (Jul 7, 2008)

bigmc said:


> How do you know they were being abused?


watching a fat couple walk back to car childless :lol:

see it all the time.


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## rob3rto (May 23, 2007)

Have a read up on Pepipoo.


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## PaulTheo (Sep 26, 2010)

I would like a big space for my car but not preparred to have another child so I just use the normal spaces :thumb:


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## rizo (Jul 14, 2012)

what was wrong with all the other "normal" spaces, you broke the rules, so really you should pay it. its no different to parking on double yellows, but disabled badge holders can.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

rizo said:


> what was wrong with all the other "normal" spaces, you broke the rules, so really you should pay it. its no different to parking on double yellows, but disabled badge holders can.


There's technically no rules on a car park, only assumed rules. The ticket is based very very loosely on contract law but again it has no legal standpoint.


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## rizo (Jul 14, 2012)

bigmc said:


> There's technically no rules on a car park, only assumed rules. The ticket is based very very loosely on contract law but again it has no legal standpoint.


if you bring up contract law, then surely, you accept to use the provided car park in accordance with the contract conditions. ie: disabled spaces for disabled and parent/child spaces for parent/child, any breach of those conditions would mean breach of contract which would impose a penalty in this case a fine.


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## rob3rto (May 23, 2007)

I think that if they have people ready to give tickets (read speculative invoices) to people parking in disabled bays, they should also do it to those with no kids (or older kids) that park in parent /child bays.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Two issues here, a legal one and a moral one.

A parent with children can with a little effort park in a regular bay

A genuinely disabled person might with a major effort be able to park in a regular bay.

A row of empty spaces can fill rapidly at Supermarkets.


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## PaulaJayne (Feb 17, 2012)

rizo said:


> if you bring up contract law, then surely, you accept to use the provided car park in accordance with the contract conditions. ie: disabled spaces for disabled and parent/child spaces for parent/child, any breach of those conditions would mean breach of contract which would impose a penalty in this case a fine.


NOT A FINE - a private entity cannot Fine you.

Contract is for losses - no losses incured so owe nothing.

Credit rating. bailifs etc can only happen.

IF 
1. They take you to court
2. They win (Highly unlikely)
3. Any you do not pay.

Lines and bay markings on private property such as Tesco car parks have NO meaning in law.

Go to www.pepipoo.com


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

rizo said:


> if you bring up contract law, then surely, you accept to use the provided car park in accordance with the contract conditions. ie: disabled spaces for disabled and parent/child spaces for parent/child, any breach of those conditions would mean breach of contract which would impose a penalty in this case a fine.


Yes technically but they're not giving you a chance to negotiate so it's not a contract, they're only allowed to "fine" you for their losses, which in most cases is £0 as the car park is free to use for patrons.


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## mart. (Jul 7, 2008)

Good site - pepipoo

Just had a good read. :thumb:


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## NeilG40 (Jan 1, 2009)

From reading another forum it looks like you'll no longer be able to ignore parking tickets.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=22493039&postcount=7


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

The contract law failings if these still apply, their losses are still zero so their fines can only amount to zero


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## rizo (Jul 14, 2012)

bigmc said:


> The contract law failings if these still apply, their losses are still zero so their fines can only amount to zero


there can still be a penalty implied if there is a breach of contract.

if they take you to court and if they have evidence that you was parked there ie: photo then they will win and you will have to pay court/legal fees.

PS: im not trying to argue with anyone just keeps my brain ticking away :thumb:


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## Magic Detail (Jul 25, 2010)

I park in parent and child bays when I go shopping with my mum. I am 27, but still her child. Is this morally wrong? :lol:


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Unlike parking tickets issued by local authorities, which are backed by statute, the enforcement of private parking is essentially a matter of contract law. A private parking company needs to overcome many significant legal hurdles in order to be successful, which include:
Establishing that any claim is under the law of contract, rather than the tort of trespass (see case of Excel Parking Services v Alan Matthews, Wrexham County Court, May 2009 where the parking company lost on this ground);
Establishing that all of the elements of a contract (offer, acceptance, consideration) are present;
Establishing who the driver was on the relevant occasion, as any contract can only be enforced against the driver, who may or may not be the registered keeper of the vehicle;
Establishing the prominence and adequacy of any warning signage, and that the driver actually saw and understood the signage (Waltham Forest v Vine [CCRTF 98/1290/B2]);
Establishing that the amount claimed is not an unlawful "penalty", including that there was no attempt to "frighten and intimidate" the driver (see well reported case of Excel Parking Services v Hetherington-Jakeman, Mansfield County Court, March 2008 where the parking company lost on this ground);
Establishing that any contract does not fail foul of the Unfair Contract Terms Act and associated regulations.

If it is a private parking company on private land (include in that supermarket carparks) then you only have to pay them the amount that parking would have cost to park there, they have no power to issue a fine so they will claim that you entered into a contractual agreement with them to park there and that you accepted that if you broke their rules (anything from displaying the ticket upside down, parking slightly out of the marked lines, overstaying a time limit etc etc etc) then you agreed to accept their penalties. That is total rubbish, they are only entitled to seek from you the amount of money they have actually lost (ie what it would have cost to park there), anything else is punitive and would be laughed out of Court (hence why they never take you to Court).

They rely on fear and ignorance to get their money, they will pay £2.50 to the DVLA to get the registered keepers details and then they will write a series of ever more threatening letters designed to scare you into paying.

If the car park was free to park in then you are safe to ignore any and all letters from them, if there was a charge to park there and you didn't pay it (or if your ticket expired) then technically they can pursue you for this amount and this amount ONLY, so if you don't feel comfortable ignoring their letters then send them whatever fee it was that you didn't pay and mention the 'Dunlop' case, this is the ********** legal precedent which disallows the punitive damages they are seeking from you.

For those who choose to ignore the letters you can expect about 8 or 9 in total, the first 4 or 5 from the parking company, then the next two from a tame/friendly solicitor (that's actually someone at the next desk in the same office), then a final one or two from a debt collector (that's actually someone else in the same office but at another desk), after they have exhausted all of their threats (bad credit rating, court costs, escalating charges) they will make you one final offer to let you pay the original amount (that's their desperation letter), then it will all stop and they will move on as they realise that you are not going to be intimidated.

EDIT:
Just to add something from the bill of rights;
Bill of Rights 1689. Section 2.12 specifically states "That all Grants and Promises of Fines and Forfeitures of particular persons before Conviction are illegal and void.".


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## Magic Detail (Jul 25, 2010)

Great post!!

I have had a couple of these for said misdemeanor (parking in parent an child bays, sometimes with and often without a parent!!). Ended up getting about 4 letters. Last one usually ends with they are going to re-possess your house, kidnap your children, eat your dog etc. none of which ever happened, coincidentally. Never did pay the fines either...


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## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

rizo said:


> if you bring up contract law, then surely, you accept to use the provided car park in accordance with the contract conditions. ie: disabled spaces for disabled and parent/child spaces for parent/child, any breach of those conditions would mean breach of contract which would impose a penalty in this case a fine.


What contract??!?!? haha!!!


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## jimbob800 (Feb 9, 2012)

im disabled at it makes my blood boil :devil: when you see people parking in disabled parking bays with no blue badges :devil:.
i understand its hard work with little one while trying to go shopping but its still no excuse for parking in the disabled bays.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

jimbob800 said:


> im disabled at it makes my blood boil :devil: when you see people parking in disabled parking bays with no blue badges :devil:.
> i understand its hard work with little one while trying to go shopping but its still no excuse for parking in the disabled bays.


At the risk of sounding harsh have you not thought of using the delivery option or the click and collect as many supermarkets are now doing? We use the deliver option purely because I hate supermarkets.


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## jimbob800 (Feb 9, 2012)

bigmc said:


> At the risk of sounding harsh have you not thought of using the delivery option or the click and collect as many supermarkets are now doing? We use the deliver option purely because I hate supermarkets.


i dont use the delivery service due to the fact its really the only time i get to go out due to my disability and people like me really need the disabled parking bays.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

bigmc said:


> At the risk of sounding harsh have you not thought of using the delivery option or the click and collect as many supermarkets are now doing? We use the deliver option purely because I hate supermarkets.


Sorry but that is a bit harsh and slightly insensitive. My in-laws both in their late eighties have very limited mobility, I'm regulary their chauffeur taking them on their weekly shop, they enjoy going out and picking their produce personally. Being disabled does not mean a life at home, for those that cannot get out of their home then for sure online shopping must be a godsend.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

jimbob800 said:


> im disabled at it makes my blood boil :devil: when you see people parking in disabled parking bays with no blue badges :devil:.
> i understand its hard work with little one while trying to go shopping but its still no excuse for parking in the disabled bays.


Don't have a little one then or at least don't take them shopping :thumb:

I'm reasonably sure there were no parent parking spaces when I was growing up, why are they needed now?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

jimbob800 said:


> i dont use the delivery service due to the fact its really the only time i get to go out due to my disability and people like me really need the disabled parking bays.


:thumb: just curious. Although as said above they are purely guidance nothing else, if someone if selfish enough to use them there's nothing anyone can do.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

RisingPower said:


> I'm reasonably sure there were no parent parking spaces when I was growing up, why are they needed now?


Have you seen the size of a family car compared to a normal space now? A mondeo barely fits in a car park space.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

S63 said:


> Sorry but that is a bit harsh and slightly insensitive. My in-laws both in their late eighties have very limited mobility, I'm regulary their chauffeur taking them on their weekly shop, they enjoy going out and picking their produce personally. Being disabled does not mean a life at home, for those that cannot get out of their home then for sure online shopping must be a godsend.


It was a genuine question. I don't expect anyone to live their life in doors but if something makes your life easier there's a case for it. 
Having a blue badge doesn't always equate to needing one either, my plumber has one!


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## jimbob800 (Feb 9, 2012)

bigmc said:


> :thumb: just curious. Although as said above they are purely guidance nothing else, if someone if selfish enough to use them there's nothing anyone can do.


i understand that entirely im only 32 and the looks i get off some people when i pull up in a disabled bay. they soon look away when they see me get out of the car.:doublesho


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## rizo (Jul 14, 2012)

Miglior said:


> What contract??!?!? haha!!!


not sure what all the !?!?!?!?!? are about.

it is a contract, albeit a very loose contract.

the car park owner has put forward there offer (use of said carpark, including the conditions that go with it) and you have your acceptance the car driver parking in said carpark.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

bigmc said:


> Have you seen the size of a family car compared to a normal space now? A mondeo barely fits in a car park space.


Length wise, a lot of cars do stick out but some of them are bloody ridiculous in the first place. Width wise, I can't say i've noticed? All I notice is cars either parked with the wheel up against the curb or 10 feet away.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

rizo said:


> not sure what all the !?!?!?!?!? are about.
> 
> it is a contract, albeit a very loose contract.
> 
> the car park owner has put forward there offer (use of said carpark, including the conditions that go with it) *and you have your acceptance the car driver parking in said carpark.*


Only if you understand, have seen said signs and they are legally binding which they're not.


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

rizo said:


> if you bring up contract law, then surely, you accept to use the provided car park in accordance with the contract conditions. ie: disabled spaces for disabled and parent/child spaces for parent/child, any breach of those conditions would mean breach of contract which would impose a penalty in this case a fine.


Well under contract law there has to be an offer, acceptance & consideration. I guess the driver can choose not to accept the car park offer & park where they like


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

bigmc said:


> It was a genuine question. I don't expect anyone to live their life in doors but if something makes your life easier there's a case for it.
> Having a blue badge doesn't always equate to needing one either, my plumber has one!


In my time as a London chauffeur it seemed half the tradesmen had badges, good to see employers using the services of so many disabled.


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

NeilG40 said:


> From reading another forum it looks like you'll no longer be able to ignore parking tickets.
> 
> http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=22493039&postcount=7


Interesting if it's indeed true!


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

kh904 said:


> Interesting if it's indeed true!


They still have no legal standing though, actual loss and all that.


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## rizo (Jul 14, 2012)

kh904 said:


> Well under contract law there has to be an offer, acceptance & consideration. I guess the driver can choose not to accept the car park offer & park where they like


haha never thought of that. could also be a counter offer." i will use your car park but i will park anywhere"

parking tickets and clamping is such a mystery.

when does clamping become illegal? is it 1st October?


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## rizo (Jul 14, 2012)

bigmc said:


> They still have no legal standing though, actual loss and all that.


i always thought that in any contract can impose penalties if there is a breach of contract?

i'm guessing you work in someway in the legal system? :thumb:

its good these threads makes me learn.


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## rizo (Jul 14, 2012)

i've just been reading some study text and for a contract to be binding each party must receive something of value, as parking is free then there is no legally binding contract.

is that right bigmc?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

I don't work in a legal capacity. 
A contract can impose financial penalties but only based around actual financial loss, therefore as you say if parking is free there's no loss.


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## rizo (Jul 14, 2012)

bigmc said:


> I don't work in a legal capacity.
> A contract can impose financial penalties but only based around actual financial loss, therefore as you say if parking is free there's no loss.


:thumb: that makes sense.


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## mart. (Jul 7, 2008)

Thanks for the replays about legal discussion and info. 

As for the use of the disabled bay, its was her first and last time of doing that, think she learnt her lesson but won't be paying the fine.


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## toddy23 (Jun 16, 2012)

i got one few months ago off parking eye had 3 letters saying pay,pay,pay,just left the letters in a draw and now they have stopped


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

To be honest, as some others have said, she was daft to park in the type of bay she did but at the same time I can see why she did.

In regards to the fine, I wouldn't bother paying it or even worrying about it - simply bin it, forget about it & move on.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

don't pay the fine, stay off that peppipoo site, it's full of arm chair lawyers that know nothing... it's dangerous....

as for the whole car parking debate.... hmmmm... the way I see it,if the car park people just made every space the same size as the disabled bays, there would be less hassle...

:lol:

there is now a car park in Glasgow where my Abarth struggles to fit in a space... shocking.... :lol:

:thumb:


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## ABC Detailing (Jun 29, 2010)

Don't pay the fine and ignore - I did.

Expect them to be c**ts about it though, they will ring all times of the day, you'll have some little chav pestering you to get his commission, they'll pretend to be solicitors (which is illegal).

They can only sue for what they loss by you being there, a few quid in my case, but it escalates and the number was £240 in the end for me.

I told them they were harrassing me, impersonating a solicitor is illegal, they don't know who was driving at the time (NEVER admit this, as it gives them someone to chase) and I simply bluffed them by telling them to take me to court. 

After around 20 calls and 6 letters they stopped after a strictly worded email. 

They will ring to get details from you, asking to confirm your details before even introducing themselves! So be on your guard.

For reference, the company was Parking Eye.

Hope that helps.


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## mart. (Jul 7, 2008)

How did they get your phone number ?


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## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

mart. said:


> How did they get your phone number ?


If someone's got your address they can easily use that to get a phone number.


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## PaulaJayne (Feb 17, 2012)

The Cueball said:


> stay off that peppipoo site, it's full of arm chair lawyers that know nothing... it's dangerous....
> 
> :thumb:


As well as real lawyers, Barristers, Police, Ex police, and experts on traffic law.


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

rizo said:


> i've just been reading some study text and for a contract to be binding each party must receive something of value, as parking is free then there is no legally binding contract.
> 
> is that right bigmc?


As i understand, the answer is yes, something of value has to be exchanged between the parties (consideration?) - i'm not qualified in giving legal advice though!

The question is what is considered 'value' i guess.

All the banks would have a problem on this one when giving out loans because there's no consideration in modern banking! The debtor pledges to pay back the loan credit amount plus interest, but the bank creates the loan/credit out of thin air! :thumb:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

PaulaJayne said:


> As well as real lawyers, Barristers, Police, Ex police, and experts on traffic law.


well, having used it very recently... I beg to differ...

the information on the site is wrong.

the, very professional, and an expert in traffic/speeding issues i used refuses to work or use the site for that very reason...as do a lot of the others I spoke to but didn't use...

the amount of people that the place is getting into trouble far outweighs the ones getting help.. 

but as usual, the failures tend to get brushed aside....

:thumb:


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

chapppers11 said:


> Don't pay the fine and ignore - I did.
> 
> Expect them to be c**ts about it though, they will ring all times of the day, you'll have some little chav pestering you to get his commission, they'll pretend to be solicitors (which is illegal).
> 
> ...


How did they get your phone number to call you?
You shouldn't call them even if you are in the right!


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

The Cueball said:


> as for the whole car parking debate.... hmmmm... the way I see it,if the car park people just made every space the same size as the disabled bays, there would be less hassle...
> 
> :lol:
> 
> ...


I think this is what needs to be looked into at the end of the day! Car park spaces re waaaay too small for the average modern day car, if they where all the size of disabled/parent bays i don't think there would be any problems. Obviously have them closer to the entrance of the store still. 
It will also seriously reduce the mount of dings and scrapes!


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

It astounds me that most "disabled" people bang on about being owed something all the time e.g parking spaces, blue badges the right to a free car(mobility car scheme hacks me off)

Yet they want treated like the rest of the population.


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Got one of these tickets in our local Asda in January for parking in a kiddies bay without kids, altho' our Grandkids were with us. Figure that one out!

Anyway, like yourself I did a bit of research on the interweb. After reading thro' loads of articles, we ignored it.

Haven't heard a thing since.

Its all down to who was driving at the time. They can get the registered keeper details, but they are not legally empowered to ask who the driver was, no matter what crap they spout in any correspondence they send to you.

Ignore mate!


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## Hotchy (Jul 22, 2010)

They phoned me and I said take me to court. Go figure 2 years later I've heard nothinf

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## VenomUK (Oct 13, 2011)

Ignore it and if you get a letter then start to do something about it. 

I had plod put a ticket on mine before but they done it to annoy me. Reason for saying this is because they got all the info wrong on the ticket.

The date on the ticket was ##/##/2005 when it was ##/##/2007

Car make Rover when the it was actually a MG

Model on ticket was ZR when the actual model was a ZS

This is why I thought they were doing it to just s### me up as it was in town at night outside a night club and it was the place the police van likes to park as Ive seen it many times there before.

I just waited for a letter to arrive and then sent a well worded letter pointing out their mistakes and how could they make the mistakes if the reg is linked to the vehicle and that I would not be paying the fine this time. 

Received a letter in the typical plod fashion of 'we are always right' just saying that at this time they will let it go but I was still in the wrong even though there are no 'no parking' signs and was outside of loading bay hours.

Police 0 - Me 1

thank you very much


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Grizzle said:


> It astounds me that most "disabled" people bang on about being owed something all the time e.g parking spaces, blue badges the right to a free car(mobility car scheme hacks me off)
> 
> Yet they want treated like the rest of the population.


Don't think i've ever heard any disabled people banging on about how they're owed anything?


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

I have, however, heard lots of parents banging on about how they're owed a child parking space.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

I dont park in the supermarket car park...

I Park on the side streets near it less chance of getting the car tted and walk in ......



Our local Tesco had the 3 hours parking reduced to 2 with no extra warning than putting a sticky number over the 3 oh and it was behind a bloody hedge so you couldn't actually read it 


But i wouldnt park in a disabled or mother and baby bay... 

on the odd occasion i have to park in these large car parks i park as far from the door as possible


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Grizzle said:


> It astounds me that most "disabled" people bang on about being owed something all the time e.g parking spaces, blue badges the right to a free car(mobility car scheme hacks me off)
> 
> Yet they want treated like the rest of the population.


I was just talking about that with someone today...

I got into trouble because I laughed at the guy last night in the blind football, when he tried to kick the ball and miss...

apparently I'm 'sick' for laughing... I replied, would it be ok to laugh if they could see... yes.... and disabled people want equality... yes...

so what's the difference!?!?!

as and when it suits people these days....  :wall:

:thumb:


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

first of all it's not a contract or a fine, It's an invoice. Which you don't have to pay.

secondly people who cantt park their modern size family car in a normal size parking space shouldn't be aloud to drive. I drive an estate car, and i drive a for transit connect, both large busses and i have no trouble what so ever getting into and out of a normal size parking space. yes it's a bit tight but it might mean you have to use the steering wheel a bit more which i know to some people on here might start the fear of putting more wear and tear on there powersteering pump or the use of there arms a bit more :lol:

Unless you own a silly size car like an A8 size then maybe and only maybe would you have to take up other spaces but deffo not a disabled space.

I wouldn't pay the fine as i think that is stupid amount and i wouldn't do that in the first place BUT i have no sypathy with the op at all. If parent and child bays mean so much to you people then wait round the corner untill one becomes free or move to a more quiet part of the store car park or as someone offensively put earlier, use the online shopping facility.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Grizzle said:


> It astounds me that most "disabled" people bang on about being owed something all the time e.g parking spaces, blue badges the right to a free car(mobility car scheme hacks me off)
> 
> Yet they want treated like the rest of the population.


This is so not true, how many disabled people do you know personally and have regular contact with. You come across as someone who has no respect for the disabled, I'm sure that cannot be true.

PS pay a visit to the showroom I work in and I'll introduce you to a couple of our paraplegic Motorbility customers and lets see if they "hack " you off.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> I was just talking about that with someone today...
> 
> I got into trouble because I laughed at the guy last night in the blind football, when he tried to kick the ball and miss...
> 
> ...


I agree with that tottaly.

Originally Posted by Grizzle 
It astounds me that most "disabled" people bang on about being owed something all the time e.g parking spaces, blue badges the right to a free car(mobility car scheme hacks me off)

Yet they want treated like the rest of the population.

I think in this case though with the parking topic i think people should respect them no matter if the person who is disabled should qualify or not. It is just common sense and respect that i think people lack these days. I'am sure it wont hurt for someone who abuses these spaces to walk an extra x amount of distance and keep these spaces free for people who need them.


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> Unless you own a silly size car like an A8 size then maybe and only maybe would you have to take up other spaces but deffo not a disabled space.
> 
> .


anyone we know on here with such a silly car


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

justina3 said:


> anyone we know on here with such a silly car


don't care lol creeps into the 4x4 catagory as far as iam concerned  Far to big for a normal space so you can sort of understand why they would need the extra space.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

justina3 said:


> anyone we know on here with such a silly car


No one would be that daft :tumbleweed:

:thumb:


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> No one would be that daft :tumbleweed:
> 
> :thumb:


Bet you take up 2 spaces with your 500A :devil:  :wave:


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

its his heed that takes up 2 spaces not the womans car lol.


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## VenomUK (Oct 13, 2011)

Grizzle said:


> It astounds me that most "disabled" people bang on about being owed something all the time e.g parking spaces, blue badges the right to a free car(mobility car scheme hacks me off)
> 
> Yet they want treated like the rest of the population.


So service men and woman don't deserve anything then? The mobility scheme is only given to people who need it not just because they want it. I think your argument is very week and very naive to disabilities. You never know you may end up like that one day and wanting/needing help....


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

My stand on things, if its not from the council or police, dont pay it. Simple as that.

*As for the OP parking in a disabled space, I have no issues with it,* IMO the disabled and parent/child should all be the same anyway and shared amongst them.

On the disabled front, how many people, usually elderly had either a knee or hip operation, still very mobile and get around just fine but still get a disabled badge? I personally know about 5, they have no issues walking another 50metres from a normal space but decide to take up disabled spaces :thumb:


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

GR33N said:


> My stand on things, if its not from the council or police, dont pay it. Simple as that.
> 
> As for parking in a disabled space, I have no issues with it, IMO the disabled and parent/child should all be the same anyway and shared amongst them.
> 
> On the disabled front, how many people, usually elderly had either a knee or hip operation, still very mobile and get around just fine but still get a disabled badge? I personally know about 5, they have no issues walking another 50metres from a normal but decide to take up disabled spaces :thumb:


^ sh!t me, now that IS naive and ignorant.

My Dad got a blue badge when he got diagnosed with terminal cancer. At first, I wondered why he actually had it, as he was perfectly capable of walking down the shops. It wasn't long for the chemo and radiotherapy to start kicking in, and the cancer to continue growing, and obviously the doctor's had known what to expect, more than I did. We had his car converted to motability, which WE paid for, but unfortunately at this time he was unable to actually GET to the car to go the shops....he ended up house-bound.

A few months before he reached this condition, before passing away, he was able to drive to the shops, and blessed that he was able to park in the disabled bays, as he would struggle on his sticks, and eventually in his wheelchair, on his own.

For a perfectly able-bodied person who may be burdened by kids, as that's how it seems to be with shopping, I find it hard to believe that you feel you have as much NEED to occupy a disabled persons parking bay as people such as my Dad would have NEEDED.

Do me a favour and make the most of your legs, as there may become a day when God forbid you lose the use of them, and find some a$$hole has parked in the space you NEEDED.

I find it so sad that we live in such a lazy world these days!


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

GR33N said:


> On the disabled front, how many people, usually elderly had either a knee or hip operation, still very mobile and get around just fine but still get a disabled badge? I personally know about 5, they have no issues walking another 50metres from a normal but decide to take up disabled spaces :thumb:


It saddens me that posts in this thread like this show a complete lack of understanding, ignorance and no compassion or sympathy.

We all have good days and bad days, the elderly more than most. The majority of elderly after a major operation rarely regain full mobility yet getting out of a car you and me may think they are perfectly fit, look again in a shop or supermarket after a few minutes and see them struggling for breath and wincing in pain and discomfort.

My late mum even in her late eighties would walk a mile a day to go to the shops, it took me a couple of years of argument to get her to concede to getting a Blue Badge.

Many elderly give up and consign themselves to a life at home or in a nursing home but my mum and now my elderly in laws refuse to accept that the end is nigh and will make every effort to appear "normal" such is their pride and dignity.

Don't pre judge, tar everybody with the same brush, yes there will always be those that cheat the system with dodgy doctors to get a badge coz they are too lazy to walk that extra few yards, question is, with a momentary glance can you surely tell who is genuine and who is not?

Edit. Whilst writing this Kriminal has posted along similar lines, glad I'm not alone in my sadness.


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

Kriminal said:


> ^ sh!t me, now that IS naive and ignorant.
> 
> My Dad got a blue badge when he got diagnosed with terminal cancer. At first, I wondered why he actually had it, as he was perfectly capable of walking down the shops. It wasn't long for the chemo and radiotherapy to start kicking in, and the cancer to continue growing, and obviously the doctor's had known what to expect, more than I did. We had his car converted to motability, which WE paid for, but unfortunately at this time he was unable to actually GET to the car to go the shops....he ended up house-bound.
> 
> ...


Firstly, condolences to you and your family for your father. Nobody deserves to die of cancer especially when it slowly attacks their body, I watched pancreatic cancer slowly strip my uncle away over the course of 6months, it was a very hard thing to watch.

Although you have have presented a perfectly valid reason for the use of a Blue Badge and disabled parking bays, I fear and know that there are many more people who have little disability other than having once had an operation who are also deemed valid for a blue badge. IMO this is totally wrong and obviously genuinely disabled people should reap the benefits of disabled parking bays.

Having children is also no excuse to automatically be able to park near the door of a shop, however given the situation described by the OP given that there were numerous disabled bays free I think that their decision was perfectly valid. After all is said and done, we have no idea if the OPs wife is perfectly able bodied, she could suffer with back issues and lifting children in and out a car in a tight spot is obviously not going to help the situation.

There is also an argument to say she should have gone and found an empty part of the car park, however knowing how people tear about in car parks these days, I'm not sure id like to carry/try and walk young children across a potentially busy car park.

I think we would both agree that the people who truly deserve to get a parking fine, are the perfectly able bodied people, who selfishly park in parent/child and disabled bays to either save time or protect their car.

Just my 2pence worth, not necessarily right or wrong, simply what I believe and the exercising the use of what to me should be common sense.

Ben


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

S63 said:


> It saddens me that posts in this thread like this show a complete lack of understanding, ignorance and no compassion or sympathy.
> 
> We all have good days and bad days, the elderly more than most. The majority of elderly after a major operation rarely regain full mobility yet getting out of a car you and me may think they are perfectly fit, look again in a shop or supermarket after a few minutes and see them struggling for breath and wincing in pain and discomfort.
> 
> ...


I think my above post addresses all your points, and I still think that disabled badges are given out too easily these day.

and on the point of tarring people with the same brush, is that not what you've just done to me? I have no lack of understanding, ignorance and compassion or sympathy, clearly shown by my above post


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

GR33N said:


> Although you have have presented a perfectly valid reason for the use of a Blue Badge and disabled parking bays, I fear and know that there are many more people who have little disability other than having once had an operation who are also deemed valid for a blue badge. IMO this is totally wrong and obviously genuinely disabled people should reap the benefits of disabled parking bays.
> 
> Ben


Again, I say you have much to learn and maybe you are fortunate in not having firsthand experience to date.

Both my Mum and my in laws underwent (much against their wishes) a thorough examination to determine whether they qualified for a badge, there will always be a minority that find immoral ways of getting a badge. Is it too much to ask that we should question the validity of any one single person.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Dear oh dear.... the truth must hurt for some people.

these badges are dished out like sweet and abused something chronic, Mobility cars are the same.

And just so you know last month i became an uncle again to a girl who has Cerebral Palsy, a good mate of mine when we were younger got knocked down by a drunk driver and is in a chair 24/7 and is brain damaged.

So dont give me this bull **** about "you might end up like this one day" nonsense.

GR33N i'm glad we are the only ones who can see what we are talking about, the rest cant see the wood for the trees.


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

GR33N said:


> Firstly, condolences to you and your family for your father. Nobody deserves to die of cancer especially when it slowly attacks their body, I watched pancreatic cancer slowly strip my uncle away over the course of 6months, it was a very hard thing to watch.
> 
> Although you have have presented a perfectly valid reason for the use of a Blue Badge and disabled parking bays, I fear and know that there are many more people who have little disability other than having once had an operation who are also deemed valid for a blue badge. IMO this is totally wrong and obviously genuinely disabled people should reap the benefits of disabled parking bays.
> 
> ...


Thank you for at least being man enough to stand up and reply. I at first would like to offer MY condolences towards the loss of your Uncle, as no person should be made to suffer such traumatic situations. 

Without getting up on my 'rant' box, I'd just like to say that I'm not sure about disability badges being given out too freely. I would have completely agreed with you if were to see my Dad when he first got his badge - I even asked him why he should have one, and he wasn't sure either...lol.

My only quirk that I have with your side of the debate is this : "Disability is an illness, Parenthood is a choice".

As Rising Power put, at some earlier point in this thread : Parental parking bays haven't always been around, and people would have to simply park any where they could find a space, and walk with their children...

...I think the introduction of these bays have somehow managed to change the outlook of people getting 'one over' on others by having children, and this has extended towards people having disabilities.

I like the fact that people with children can have wider spaces, as it prevents them from hitting MY car...lol...so have no malice towards parents.

I just think we need to all become a bit more patient if we want these 'special' spaces, rather than jumping into something that would serve a greater purpose to a greater person. :thumb:


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

Kriminal said:


> Thank you for at least being man enough to stand up and reply. I at first would like to offer MY condolences towards the loss of your Uncle, as no person should be made to suffer such traumatic situations.
> 
> Without getting up on my 'rant' box, I'd just like to say that I'm not sure about disability badges being given out too freely. I would have completely agreed with you if were to see my Dad when he first got his badge - I even asked him why he should have one, and he wasn't sure either...lol.
> 
> ...


Oh I totally agree with you about parenthood being a choice, I'm sure there were no such things as parent and child bays years ago and mankind doesn't seem to have diminished into the dust :lol:


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## clarkey1269 (Dec 27, 2010)

clearly gone off topic......


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

clarkey1269 said:


> clearly gone off topic......


A debate from the first post that involves the use of a disabled bay, always provides a passionate and sometimes heated exchange of views, the only thing clearly off topic is your single contribution to this discussion.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

S63 said:


> A debate from the first post that involves the use of a disabled bay, always provides a passionate and sometimes heated exchange of views, the only thing clearly off topic is your single contribution to this discussion.


Also, it's come back to debate parent parking spaces, which is what it was originally about.


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## clarkey1269 (Dec 27, 2010)

S63 said:


> A debate from the first post that involves the use of a disabled bay, always provides a passionate and sometimes heated exchange of views, the only thing clearly off topic is your single contribution to this discussion.


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## gregb (Feb 1, 2009)

clarkey1269 said:


>


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Now that's a quality response :thumb:


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

:lol:


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## MA3RC (Jun 19, 2012)

mart. said:


> Mrs Came home from Asda today with a parking ticket from TCP (town and city parking) £70 fine. she was in bit of a state.
> 
> After a brief look on the net it seems that the best thing to do is ignore it!
> 
> another thing, on the ticket it says the colour of the car is Grey but the car is blue :lol:


Was this in Cardiff gate by any chance?


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## FiestaDan (Jul 10, 2012)

Paragon said:


> I park in parent and child bays when I go shopping with my mum. I am 27, but still her child. Is this morally wrong? :lol:


LOL, take a pram with you and get in it :lol: :thumb:


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)




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## rinns (May 24, 2008)

Ive had six letters of late, seems to have gone quiet for the last 8 weeks so i think thats the end of them.

Robbings gits


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

I had one from a local retail park as signs are "for customers only". I'd parked up and had to go to cash machine as my maestro card wasn't working. Came back did shopping and had ticket when i got back to car. Rang the company they did not want to know at all. Ignored all letters from them(so far up to solicitors letter from same address as parking company). Last letter was about 4weeks ago so hoping now they've given up.


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## rinns (May 24, 2008)

Darlofan said:


> I had one from a local retail park as signs are "for customers only". I'd parked up and had to go to cash machine as my maestro card wasn't working. Came back did shopping and had ticket when i got back to car. Rang the company they did not want to know at all. Ignored all letters from them(so far up to solicitors letter from same address as parking company). Last letter was about 4weeks ago so hoping now they've given up.


same here, about 6 letters in all, car park company then debt collect agency which are also part of the scam, then solicitors registered as the same address as debt agency.

Offers of reduced payment came at the end which smelt of desperation !

then nothing, so hope thats the end of it.

Although someone is getting rich from this scam.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

rinns said:


> same here, about 6 letters in all, car park company then debt collect agency which are also part of the scam, then solicitors registered as the same address as debt agency.
> 
> Offers of reduced payment came at the end which smelt of desperation !
> 
> ...


They're getting rich because so many pay. I know 7people who have had similar and all paid and when i tell others they all say "oh my god I'd have paid it straight away".


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

Would just like to add I am in support of GR33N's standpoint RE: Disabled bays.
I park in parent and baby spaces occasionally IF there are no spaces available. They also have a lot of space and save the dents on your door (which I frigging have) where someone slams theirs into yours.

My mother is disabled and needs sticks to walk, she has back and neck issues caused by years of lifting people on and off of beds when working for the NHS.
She needs a badge especially with shopping.

Although at my local Sainsburys in Newbury they have I think 2 rows of disabled spaces and here's the joke they go like this

Store on left, normal parking is [p] and disabled is [d]

S| [p][p][p][p][p][p][p][p][p][p][p]
T| [p][p][p][p][p][p][p][p][p][p][p]
O| [p][p][p][p][p][p][p][p][p][p][p]
R| [d][d][d][d][d][d][d][d][d][d][d]
E| [d][d][d][d][d][d][d][d][d][d][d]
@| [p] [p] [p] [p] [p] [p] [p] [p] [p][p]

So in most cases it's actually a shorter walk to park in a normal space.
I regularly go there and often see elderly people who seem perfectly happy, are able to squeeze in and out of their car easily and just use a regular walking stick (that they don't actually need as they can happily walk halfway to the door before remembering they forgot it and walking back) and they park in disabled bays - and even then, can't park within the lines!!? Unless you are unable to walk properly you should not be given a badge.. I hear of people who are deaf (excuse the pun) who get disabled bays and I think... "why?"

The argument for parent and baby spaces is irrelevant, I think they are stupid - If that is the amount of space needed to open a set of car doors then all spaces should be like that. 
I've had to go shopping once with a baby and a friend and we were more than happy parking in a normal space and could easily remove the fold out pram from the boot, carry it above the cars to the front of the vehicle and then fetch baby.

And on topic for the parking ticket, as others have said you're pretty safe to ignore it.


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

xJay1337 said:


> Would just like to add I am in support of GR33N's standpoint RE: Disabled bays.
> *I park in parent and baby spaces occasionally IF there are no spaces available. They also have a lot of space and save the dents on your door (which I frigging have) where someone slams theirs into yours. *


Right, on the strength of the bit in bold, I have been back and re-read my post as this is never what I was trying to say. I NEVER HAVE, PARKED IN A DISABLED OR PARENT AND CHILD BAY IN A CAR PARK, as I am able bodied and see no reason for me to as I am neither a parent or disabled.

What I was trying to say in post 84 I believe it was, is that I have no issues with the OP having parked in a disabled bay given their position, I have now edited that post in an attempt to try and clear that up.



GR33N said:


> My stand on things, if its not from the council or police, dont pay it. Simple as that.
> 
> *As for the OP parking in a disabled space, I have no issues with it,* IMO the disabled and parent/child should all be the same anyway and shared amongst them.
> 
> On the disabled front, how many people, usually elderly had either a knee or hip operation, still very mobile and get around just fine but still get a disabled badge? I personally know about 5, they have no issues walking another 50metres from a normal space but decide to take up disabled spaces :thumb:


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

The parent and baby bit was my idea. But I agree with you, I should have separated them.
I would also like to make clear I don't park in disabled bays either.
Difference is, disabled people are disabled by UK law and parent and babies are not.


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## VW STEVE. (Mar 18, 2012)

PaulTheo said:


> I would like a big space for my car but not preparred to have another child so I just use the normal spaces :thumb:


...........just get a cheap car seat from a car boot & job done.:thumb:


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## VW STEVE. (Mar 18, 2012)

GR33N said:


> Oh I totally agree with you about parenthood being a choice, I'm sure there were no such things as parent and child bays years ago and mankind doesn't seem to have diminished into the dust :lol:


............very true.:thumb:


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## VW STEVE. (Mar 18, 2012)

Paragon said:


> I park in parent and child bays when I go shopping with my mum. I am 27, but still her child. Is this morally wrong? :lol:


............no.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

RisingPower said:


> Also, it's come back to debate parent parking spaces, which is what it was originally about.


When I have the kids to take shopping with me.. a 3 month old and a 2 year old.

If I park in a normal space with cars either side then I can get the 2 year old out fine.. lean over from the drivers seat and unclip her car seat belt before I get out the car and open her door to let her out.
however.. have you tried getting a car seat out of a car... you need the door fully open.
this I can't do in a normal space unless I want to dent the hell out of the car next to me as I push the door into it trying to get the seat out the space.

so I definitely agree with parent and child spaces.. and disabled spaces(by that I mean that they should be there for disabled people who will struggle to squeeze out of a car in a normal space needing the door fully open, not that it's okay to use one for a parent and child)

as for the argument about not having parent child spaces before... I learned to drive in a morris minor(I'm not that old lol it was only 7 years ago when I was 15), a VERY popular car when most of you would be kids  
and it was DEFINITELY slimmer than 90% of cars these days.


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## ShiningScotsman (Jun 20, 2012)

As said all the data suggests to ignore the fine as its not enforcable.

With the moral dilemma - technically I wouldnt park in a disabled space or a parent and child space unless I was eligible but I do believe they are great things.

It was one time for chrissake and that one time from your good lady will make up for some of the many times I see and know some non disabled drivers who display the blue badge in order to park wherever they please because they have a disabled family member they drive for.

And no its not always because they are picking their disabled family member up - one guy I used to work with parked his car in a £4 per hour spot in the middle of Glasgow City Centre all day every day 5 days a week becuase he had a grandfather who was disabled. Never clapped eyes on his poor Grandad.

Dont imagine his Grandad had much joy getting into a lowered and pimped Audi A6 either .........Sometimes I wish I could be a grass just to stamp this sort of crap out.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

never used a disabled bay unless its been legit and with the badge holder

never park in the parent and child as its full mostly although was out with my mum one day and we parked in it got a comment from some mother who was breeding kids like rabbits, i just commented back "i'm with my mum, they dont put an age range on it"


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

As said, markings on private ground are just paintings, they have no legal standing and you can freely park over 4 disabled spaces in a smart car as nothing can (legally) be done. I generally have the courtesy to obey some of these social conversions.....including parking spaces for other groups as i understand their reason. In fact I applaud parent and child spaces, not as i think they deserve it.....quite the opposite.....but they exist so parents can get their kids in and out the car without denting cars next to them.....

....whatever you do don't contact TCP, if you suddenly become overcome with moral anguish make a donation to a local charity - certainly don't line the pockets of these companies.

Having reread the above I've realised i regularly park in a disabled space at my local bar if no others are available......perhaps I only obey these social conversions if there is an alternative!


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

CraigQQ said:


> When I have the kids to take shopping with me.. a 3 month old and a 2 year old.
> 
> If I park in a normal space with cars either side then I can get the 2 year old out fine.. lean over from the drivers seat and unclip her car seat belt before I get out the car and open her door to let her out.
> however.. have you tried getting a car seat out of a car... you need the door fully open.
> ...


Big girl  If you need to get the seat out, is a busy car park the best place to be doing it?  I'd be looking for a more suitable place.

Hey, you've got a qq, of course its bleeding wider  It's just not a practical car 

Oh and why take the kids shopping? Surely it's a lot more hassle for you and everyone else?


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

when I babysit, my niece loves going shopping (typical woman haha) so she asks to go.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

CraigQQ said:


> when I babysit, my niece loves going shopping (typical woman haha) so she asks to go.


Yeah, no comment


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

Bero said:


> As said, markings on private ground are just paintings, they have no legal standing and you can freely park over 4 disabled spaces in a smart car


I'd love to see you try!!! 
could park one sideways over one disabled space :lol:


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

CraigQQ said:


> I'd love to see you try!!!
> could park one sideways over one disabled space :lol:


If there are two rows of them you could park a 1/4 of the car in each space......although you could probably still fit 4 cars in the remaining room. :lol:....if not I would not be surprised if you came out and found your car tipped on it's side!


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

I never park in the child parking spaces even though i have two children have you seen some of the kids jumping around with trollys and god knows what else inches away from your car !! no thanks i part right at the back away from everyone and walk an extra 3 mins hey presto no scratches or hasstle


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Phrases like these people to describe people with disabilities.

Some of the comments on this thread are by people that can only be described as knuckle dragging scum.

To the OP. Do the honourable thing & pay up. Give your Mrs a stern talking to for being inconsiderate. You/she chose to have kids, people with disabilities don't choose to have them!


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Squadrone Rosso said:


> Phrases like these people to describe people with disabilities.
> 
> Some of the comments on this thread are by people that can only be described as knuckle dragging scum.
> 
> To the OP. Do the honourable thing & pay up. Give your Mrs a stern talking to for being inconsiderate. You/she chose to have kids, people with disabilities don't choose to have them!


Pay up? To what effect? You're only lining the pockets of some 2 bit dodgy company to spend on themselves, not the car park owners or council


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

Agree with you there Bidderman!!


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Give the equivalent of the fine to a charity of your choice like SSAFA or Help for Heroes. 

At least the op's / wife's conscience will be clear (assuming they have one, that is).


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Squadrone Rosso said:


> Give the equivalent of the fine to a charity of your choice like SSAFA or Help for Heroes.
> 
> At least the op's / wife's conscience will be clear (assuming they have one, that is).


You were doing so well until the last line, :lol:


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## mart. (Jul 7, 2008)

Squadrone Rosso said:


> Give the equivalent of the fine to a charity of your choice like SSAFA or Help for Heroes.
> 
> At least the op's / wife's conscience will be clear (assuming they have one, that is).


Conscience is clear. No harm was done.


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## packard (Jun 8, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> never used a disabled bay unless its been legit and with the badge holder
> 
> never park in the parent and child as its full mostly although was out with my mum one day and we parked in it got a comment from some mother who was breeding kids like rabbits, i just commented back "i'm with my mum, they dont put an age range on it"


Many stores are now changing parent and child to parent (baby/toddler) which does make more sense amnd morally acceptable and yes it is visually impossible in many car parks to open a door fully and get a baby seat out/unplug child without causing damage to vehicle opposite.


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

Im glad Craig brought up the issue of getting the car seat and baby out. How many of you have tried to get a baby seat out when parked in a regular supermarket space, its phyically impossible. I have enough trouble sqeezing out myself sometimes. I for one have watched many parents struggle to get a child or seat in and out of the car while simultaneously trying to hold the door and stop it hitting the car next door to just give up and lean the door against the car. On a site like DW I'm surprised to see so many people against Mother and Child spaces as this saves our cars from dents and scrtaches. Just because children are a choice doesnt make this any less of an issue.

One major point everyone has missed is that there were *9* free spaces. I could understand if there was one free space but when the OP parked that left 8 free spaces. I used to park in the disabled and mother/child bays when I went to the supermarket at midnight and used to get really dirty looks but theres 400 and something free spaces, loads of them being closer to the door, I just parked there simply to keep my car damage free as I'm sure everyone has noticed it doesnt matter where you park in a car park, how many miles it is from the door some one will always park next to you.

People get blue badges for being fat, in the majority of cases that is a choice.

I dont think anyone here has anything against disabled people (well I would hope not) its more the people who get the blue badge who dont need one. Just like everyone hates benefits cheaps, unless you are a scum bag benefit cheat then your loving it.

Back on topic, ignore it I very much doubt anything will come of it. I got stupid fines from these life sucking companies before and not paid them, yes they can threaten you to try and get you to pay but eventually they will go away.


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## swissrob (Oct 4, 2007)

i had a read thru this thread and some links to other forums.. there is so much false info being treated as fact - especially that overclockers link !!

current situation is:

clamping and towing is illegal by private operatives - exceptions are airport, ports, railway stations that are cover by byelaws.

only actual losses can be claimed, everyday business overheads can not be claimed.
eg park across a bay line in a free car park - loss is what exactly? 

IT IS NOT A FINE OR A PENALTY! it is a speculative invoice at best.

RK can be held liable for the actions of the driver, previously all liability remained with the driver. This however does not change the final position... it is NOT a criminal act, the parking company would still have to take you to court.


BUT due to the VCS vs HMRC ruling the parking company can not take a driver/keeper to court unless they have a vested interest in the land - eg owner /lessee.

If the parking company is a BPA member then they have to pay £27 to POPLA every time someone appeals an invoice via POPLA. POPLA is the Parking on Private Land Appeals service.

The decision is binding on the BPA operator BUT not binding on the driver/keeper.

They would still have to take you to court, and chances are very very slim of that happening.

The old advice is still current...

IGNORE, IGNORE AND IGNORE all private parking invoices.

oh, i saw some reference to freeman of the land b******s earlier in the thread regarding council and police tickets...... dont fall for it and it wont work!


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

The BPA is nothing but a joke corp where they don't have any vested interest in the general public


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

And, for me anyway, "the jury's still out" on the "freeman of the land" issue as I believe there is some substance to it


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## james_19742000 (May 8, 2008)

bigmc said:


> At the risk of sounding harsh have you not thought of using the delivery option or the click and collect as many supermarkets are now doing? We use the deliver option purely because I hate supermarkets.


Ah yes, another excuse for disabled people to be kept at home and not allowed out! My wife is disabled and very often only gets to go out once maybe twice a week due to her disability, usually its to the local supermarket as she can go around at her own pace and have a good look at everything and enjoy some 'social interaction' and fresh air and a feeling of normality for a couple of hours, but really she should be sat home clicking all the shopping on a computer.... get real!!

Sorry, I am not having a dig at your personally and in some cases your point is very valid, but please, think about commenst before making them!


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## james_19742000 (May 8, 2008)

Grizzle said:


> It astounds me that most "disabled" people bang on about being owed something all the time e.g parking spaces, blue badges the right to a free car(mobility car scheme hacks me off)
> 
> Yet they want treated like the rest of the population.


Its not a free car tye Motability scheme, its a car in lieu of a qualifying benefit, my wife used to have one but has since given it up as the range of cars they allow these days is more restrictive than it was a few years ago.

But believe me, a car that costs £200 every 4 weeks that so makes up for a life of misery, constant pain, not being able to do normal things with your kids, not being able to go out and about like a normal person, my wife and I havent had a 'night out' in many years purely because she cant, sleeping for 18 hours a day as the tablets that you need cause a lot of drowziness, yes you are right its just a 'free' car for 'genuine' disabled people to swan around in at the tax payers expense it!!!

I am sorry that my wife is such a burden upon you maybe I shoudl just take her out in teh garden and shoot her now to stop her being such a burden on society!!!!

Sorry, but she is my wife, I give up a lot to try and help her have a quality of life, my kids give up a lot with not having a 'normal' childhood and not doing as much with Mum as they woudl like, and as much as they enjoy doing things with me it doesnt make up for Mum.

But you are right the Motability scheme really is something that is free to all and sundry!!

However, I do agree that there are people out there that do abuse the system and that is wrong, as we all pay for it, my family pay for it by receiving lower benefits, and the UK workforce pay for it with higher taxes!!!

All my wife wants from life is a standard of living that is as good as she is going to get and if that means that when we go to the supermarket she can park 10 yards away from the entrance as opposed to 100 yards away then so be it, unfortunately she didnt choose to end up the way she has it just happens, like most of us will fall on hard times at some point in our lives and then we are all glad that the benefit system and all it entails is there to help people out, you cant possibly agree with the benefit system until you need it (and I admit it isnt perfect by any stretch and favours certain types of people over others and not always correctly).

Anyway rant over!!


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

To be fair, he didn't say ALL "disabled" people, so was probably singling out the obvious abusers of the system


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## swissrob (Oct 4, 2007)

there are a few issues regarding the use of disabled bays...

bays on private land are meaningless and just grafitti, there is no requirement to display a disabled badge thats the legal side but there is a the moral side.

i along with everyone else have seen the abuse and misuse of blue badges which causes resentment to those who are genuinely disabled.

This in turn leads to non belief in the system.

I dont park in disabled bays, regardless of legal markings or not


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## mart. (Jul 7, 2008)

Well it's been nearly 2 months and haven't heard anything.


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## Dan R33 (Oct 6, 2012)

http://youparklikea****.com/

^^ this made me lolol

To be fair when I play 5a side football every week at our local sport centre I park in the disabled bay every time.. There are 10 of them and I've never seen 1 valid car parked in there. I park in the furthest one away-there are normal spaces right outside the door but I choose to park there as I don't want some numpty dinging my car. In the local supermarket I park in the furthest space away and walk the 30sec to the store, for the same reason. Or in the new asda we have there are 2 charging spaces for electric cars-they are round the back,nice and wide and always free so I always park there lol.. Guess the above link fits me nicely lol do I care..no my car has 1 dent from some careless fool in a Tesco car park and I do not want any more!


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Dan R33 said:


> http://youparklikea****.com/
> 
> ^^ this made me lolol
> 
> To be fair when I play 5a side football every week at our local sport centre I park in the disabled bay every time.. There are 10 of them and I've never seen 1 valid car parked in there. I park in the furthest one away-there are normal spaces right outside the door but I choose to park there as I don't want some numpty dinging my car. In the local supermarket I park in the furthest space away and walk the 30sec to the store, for the same reason. Or in the new asda we have there are 2 charging spaces for electric cars-they are round the back,nice and wide and always free so I always park there lol.. Guess the above link fits me nicely lol do I care..no my car has 1 dent from some careless fool in a Tesco car park and I do not want any more!


My favourite disabled bay parked car. Not one, but two disabled spaces.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

fatty must have been hungry though... give 'em a break 

:wall::wall::wall:


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## J1ODY A (Nov 28, 2008)

Bet he didn't get any parking dents... I would do the same.

Sent via tapadapawapaslappatalk


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## jcf1966 (Jul 21, 2012)

bigmc said:


> :thumb: just curious. Although as said above they are purely guidance nothing else, if someone if selfish enough to use them there's nothing anyone can do.


This is not towards you I have just added to the post.

But the company has to show action under the disability act if not they can be fined.

People should not park in a disable bay as, one it puts the company in a very awkward position, and two it I just plain wrong.
It is only when people need these bays that there is a realisation of what they are doing.

It is funny though how many times my car will not start behind one of these selfish fools, once for over 90 mins it started in the end I was so embarrass and the poor chap was ever so late.


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## jcf1966 (Jul 21, 2012)

bidderman1969 said:


> Pay up? To what effect? You're only lining the pockets of some 2 bit dodgy company to spend on themselves, not the car park owners or council


I would not pay up as you say it goes to the wrong people, so why not donate it to a charity

Just an idea


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## jcf1966 (Jul 21, 2012)

mart. said:


> Conscience is clear. No harm was done.


I have to disagree with you on this.

Your wife showed she did not care about any one else let alone the disabled user that may of needed the space, she did not care about the store that has to put the spaces there and have to police them or be fined, and she showed YOUR KID not to care about others. I think harm was done.

Wishing you well


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

The Cueball said:


> fatty must have been hungry though... give 'em a break
> 
> :wall::wall::wall:


That's my RR ya cheeky git.

Just highlighting my parking skills.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Well we tried to avoid the charge from them at the local retail park and they did take us to court. We entered their car park and did not read the signs. Tried to avoid the payment. I just paid up in the end as really we did leave the car for 4 hours and they say two hours so I was wrong, they had video proof of us arriving and leaving so £50 in the end was the fine.

We have a 6 year old and don't park in baby spots anymore, would never park in a disabled spot, even with my Dad I drop him off at the shop and park up; I'm not disabled so why take a spot even though I have his card.

Parking over two spots so as not to get a door ding should be a double fine.

But........if the spaces were wide enough and at an angle like Costco and most US parking then there should not be a problem.

But anyone parking in a disabled spot without a badge should be towed off and fined before the car is crushed.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Mirror Finish Details said:


> Well we tried to avoid the charge from them at the local retail park and they did take us to court. We entered their car park and did not read the signs. Tried to avoid the payment. I just paid up in the end as really we did leave the car for 4 hours and they say two hours so I was wrong, they had video proof of us arriving and leaving so £50 in the end was the fine.
> 
> We have a 6 year old and don't park in baby spots anymore, would never park in a disabled spot, even with my Dad I drop him off at the shop and park up; I'm not disabled so why take a spot even though I have his card.
> 
> ...


They took you to court? That's a first to my knowledge. A £60 fine? You sure that they said "they would take you to court", and you paid up the original amount they "invoiced" you for? Don't take it the wrong way, but the saying "a fool and their money are easily parted" springs to mind if that was what happened, and in a way have helped them milk money from other "vulnerable" motorists, why not have taken the advice (as it wouldn't/shouldn't have) gone their way anyway, and donated the money to charity if you thought it would help? Would have been worth twice the "fine" in my eyes. If I send you a "fine" and threaten to take you to court, would you pay me?

(Don't take what I have stated in an aggressive way btw, just trying to get the point across if you know what I mean?)


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

bidderman1969 said:


> They took you to court? That's a first to my knowledge. A £60 fine? You sure that they said "they would take you to court", and you paid up the original amount they "invoiced" you for? Don't take it the wrong way, but the saying "a fool and their money are easily parted" springs to mind if that was what happened, and in a way have helped them milk money from other "vulnerable" motorists, why not have taken the advice (as it wouldn't/shouldn't have) gone their way anyway, and donated the money to charity if you thought it would help? Would have been worth twice the "fine" in my eyes. If I send you a "fine" and threaten to take you to court, would you pay me?
> 
> (Don't take what I have stated in an aggressive way btw, just trying to get the point across if you know what I mean?)


No offence dude.
This is one of their new video camera sites, signs up all over the place and the food out lets even say about the contract of parking.

We did get a court order from Cheshire County Court so I thought to bail out and just pay it. With the video they are installing and the signs was not worth the battle.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

An right see what you mean, but you really should have gone to pepipoo website, they would have put your mind to rest by telling you exactly what to do, but anyway, next time eh fella?


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

mart. said:


> was expecting that reply at some point.
> 
> Parent and child spaces are for parents and children, get my point :thumb:


What a stupid reply and selfish response... 
A disabled bay IS for disabled people and without the close proximity of the space the disabled person may not be able to shop...

A mother and baby space is to make it easier to get the kids in and out and make life easier but that's it !!! The mother and child can walk ? They can still complete the shopping but have to walk a bit ? Is that such a big problem ???? 
But no.. They assume two wrongs make a right and take a disabled space in the assumption that because there are several empty ones that they won't suddenly be needed !

Pay the fine and stop whining.. Or do you Have no social conscience ??


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## mart. (Jul 7, 2008)

jcf1966 said:


> I have to disagree with you on this.
> 
> Your wife showed she did not care about any one else let alone the disabled user that may of needed the space, she did not care about the store that has to put the spaces there and have to police them or be fined, and she showed YOUR KID not to care about others. I think harm was done.
> 
> Wishing you well


For a start it was kid's, not kid.

Like I said in previous post, she's not done it before.

Still no harm done, still 9 available disable spaces when she came back out 10 minutes later.

It's not as if she took the last one.



ChuckH said:


> What a stupid reply and selfish response...
> A disabled bay IS for disabled people and without the close proximity of the space the disabled person may not be able to shop...
> 
> A mother and baby space is to make it easier to get the kids in and out and make life easier but that's it !!! The mother and child can walk ? They can still complete the shopping but have to walk a bit ? Is that such a big problem ????
> ...


No, one of kids cant walk.


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

Mirror Finish Details said:


> No offence dude.
> This is one of their new video camera sites, signs up all over the place and the food out lets even say about the contract of parking.
> 
> We did get a court order from Cheshire County Court so I thought to bail out and just pay it. With the video they are installing and the signs was not worth the battle.


Interesting as this is the first case i've ever heard go to court!

All the car park firms do is contact the DVLA for the registered keeper's details, but the contract is with the driver - it's up to them to prove who was the driver. Unless the CCTV is very clear i don't see how they can prove his & address the summons to the right person!
Or when you say they have photo evidence it's of the car entering & leaving the car park at the relevant times?

Also they can only claim for their 'loss'. What loss have they actually incurred in a free car park? If the car parking charge is for eg. £1 an hour they can only claim £1 x hours overstayed afaik.

I think there is case law to support this too (i'll need to confirm this though)!


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## jcf1966 (Jul 21, 2012)

mart. said:


> For a start it was kid's, not kid.
> 
> Like I said in previous post, she's not done it before.
> 
> ...


Sorry but I stand by what I have said and you would change you mind if you or some one you loved needed the spaces, she had no idea if those spaces were ging to be used or not.
I really wish they made a law to deal with this then every one would know we're they stand.

Even so I wish you well


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

Ok, after a bit of looking up unfortunately with the introduction of making wheel clamping illegal by private parking companies in England from 1st Oct 2012, there was a new piece of legislation.
This means the registered keeper can be liable for private parking charges if they don't provide details of who as driving at the time. 
If you don't disclose who was driving the parking company can now chase the registered keeper for unpaid charges!

This the legislation is awful imo as it makes the keeper liable to another party's contract - going against the long established principles of contract law!!!

Also it is still unclear what the financial losses are in a free car park, so even if you do admit you are the driver or keeper i can't see how this stands up legally charging £60


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

I stand by the OP decision on this. I could understand if there was 1 parking space but there were 9 free. 

I am not a parent but last time I looked after my best mates new born I swear blind they couldn't walk so no the mum and children can't walk, they have to be carried which presents a serious problem if you have more than 1 kid.

And have you ever tried 2 strap a kid in a child seat, which again is a safety concern, in a regular space, it is impossible due to the space.

A carpark with multiple children is a dangerous place as you only have eyes in the back of your head and 1 pair of hands.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Bod42 said:


> I stand by the OP decision on this. I could understand if there was 1 parking space but there were 9 free.
> 
> I am not a parent but last time I looked after my best mates new born I swear blind they couldn't walk so no the mum and children can't walk, they have to be carried which presents a serious problem if you have more than 1 kid.
> 
> ...


A disabled bay is for disabled people that have been given a blue badge ...

It is NOT for anyone else no matter what the excuses !!

Blimey how did We all manage before the mother and child spaces were created !


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

It's not legally though.


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

bigmc said:


> It's not legally though.





kh904 said:


> Ok, after a bit of looking up unfortunately with the introduction of making wheel clamping illegal by private parking companies in England from 1st Oct 2012, there was a new piece of legislation.
> This means the registered keeper can be liable for private parking charges if they don't provide details of who as driving at the time.
> If you don't disclose who was driving the parking company can now chase the registered keeper for unpaid charges!
> 
> ...


It will be very interesting if someone takes this all the way up to the supreme court as what the new legislation means to the fundamental principles of contract law!

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/private-parking-penalties/


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

bigmc said:


> It's not legally though.


Mate we if we are talking legally then you are of course right....

But at the start of this thread the OP seemed to be upset at either all the Mother and child spaces being full or used by those without children in tow..

To use then a Disabled bay is assuming that two wrongs make a right..

I/You / We have parking provided free by all the supermarkets or shopping centres retail parks and so on but some think its OK to park in the spaces that are provided for either Mothers or the disabled and then say F it I'm not bothered or paying the fine..

I accept there was several empty spaces but who knows if they would be needed ??

To say that its OK to use one as there were several empty and use that as a defence is just daft ! Its like saying its OK for me to drive at 90 just because the roads were quiet ..


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## Dan R33 (Oct 6, 2012)

Nothing wrong with driving at 90+ when the roads are quiet and as long as it is safe to do so. It's only the outdated laws/statutes that say otherwise.. As for parking it is highly unlikely that 9 disabled people will show up needing the space within the 10mins that the op was in the bay for..it boils my blood when I'm trying to park in a full carpark and there are rows and rows of empty reserved spaces just in case the disabled population turn up.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

ChuckH said:


> A disabled bay is for disabled people that have been given a blue badge ...
> 
> It is NOT for anyone else no matter what the excuses !!
> 
> Blimey how did We all manage before the mother and child spaces were created !


More than half the people with blue badges shouldn't have blue badges in the first place.

I've always been curious that a huge proportion of disabled people in Aberdeen all drive executive cars and all move around the supermarkets without issue.

I don't park in disabled bays but the people who obtain blue badges through deception are worse than anyone using a space when there is a slight reason.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

That's a good point re. the issuing of blue badges.

Outside where I used to work in Manchester city centre, there were always Bentleys, Porche 911's and even a couple of Aston Martin's on the double yellows with blue badges. 

Did make me wonder just how disabled they were


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## jcf1966 (Jul 21, 2012)

Dan R33 said:


> Nothing wrong with driving at 90+ when the roads are quiet and as long as it is safe to do so. It's only the outdated laws/statutes that say otherwise.. As for parking it is highly unlikely that 9 disabled people will show up needing the space within the 10mins that the op was in the bay for..it boils my blood when I'm trying to park in a full carpark and there are rows and rows of empty reserved spaces just in case the disabled population turn up.


So I take it you are not disabled or care about any one who

I am not disabled but I do feel that for all the crap that most disabled people have to put up with to leave them a parking bay does seem very minor.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Kerr said:


> More than half the people with blue badges shouldn't have blue badges in the first place.
> 
> I've always been curious that a huge proportion of disabled people in Aberdeen all drive executive cars and all move around the supermarkets without issue.
> 
> I don't park in disabled bays but the people who obtain blue badges through deception are worse than anyone using a space when there is a slight reason.


Wouldn't disagree with you !! My point was and is is that whining because you have been caught is ridiculous ....


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## Dan R33 (Oct 6, 2012)

No I'm not disabled, And neither can I argue with your last comment. Tho I still feel that if it's only a brief visit and there are plenty of other spaces for them to park in, and no std spaces then it dosnt hurt anybody and thus does not warrant a fine.


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## jcf1966 (Jul 21, 2012)

Dan R33 said:


> No I'm not disabled, And neither can I argue with your last comment. Tho I still feel that if it's only a brief visit and there are plenty of other spaces for them to park in, and no std spaces then it dosnt hurt anybody and thus does not warrant a fine.


I understand you would not do this.
But how many would abuse it, 10mins to 15 to well I was just etc, I realy think the best thing to sort this out is a fine and a big one, you do the crime you pay the fine.

One thing I do find is if you park as far away from the doors as you can less people park there, I know and have had people park next to me but I would rather have that than some one having to get a wheel chair out of the car etc.

Has any one looked at how may disabled cars have dings in them, start counting, not only is it wrong but more likely to get a ding on the door.

Wishing every one well


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Kerr said:


> More than half the people with blue badges shouldn't have blue badges in the first place.
> 
> I've always been curious that a huge proportion of disabled people in Aberdeen all drive executive cars and all move around the supermarkets without issue.
> 
> I don't park in disabled bays but the people who obtain blue badges through deception are worse than anyone using a space when there is a slight reason.


Agreed there are a large number who have obtained/use them unnecessarily but, to put another angle on it, despite the picture on the parking bay, you don't need a wheelchair to be classified disabled.

My dad got one when he was diagnosed with cancer. Whilst I thought it was a bit unnecessary at first, it was something I was very thankful for when taking him to hospital for chemo/radio 4 or 5 days a week and it was a godsend when his condition worsened and he struggled to walk the sorts of distance from the car to the front door unaided. He wouldn't use a wheelchair and kept a brave face, other than taking his time and stopping for a breather, you probably wouldn't have guessed there was anything wrong with him if you didn't know.

Given that it took a few weeks of running to different offices, in between me being at work and uni, to get paperwork signed to get the badge in the first place, I'd have been pretty miffed if I'd been expected to have to wait and go through it all when he absolutely needed it.

He was driving a fully loaded Lexus RX at the time too 

The thing is though, it was his/our own car and, IMO, you shouldn't judge the ones driving exclusive/executive cars the way you seem to. For many, it means they've probably worked their arses off during their life and bought themselves something they want/deserve and by doing so are not dipping into the mobility scheme (which we were offered) to get a brand new car every couple of years at a highly subsidised rate.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

m1pui said:


> Agreed there are a large number who have obtained/use them unnecessarily but, to put another angle on it, despite the picture on the parking bay, you don't need a wheelchair to be classified disabled.
> 
> My dad got one when he was diagnosed with cancer. Whilst I thought it was a bit unnecessary at first, it was something I was very thankful for when taking him to hospital for chemo/radio 4 or 5 days a week and it was a godsend when his condition worsened and he struggled to walk the sorts of distance from the car to the front door unaided. He wouldn't use a wheelchair and kept a brave face, other than taking his time and stopping for a breather, you probably wouldn't have guessed there was anything wrong with him if you didn't know.
> 
> ...


They are changing the blue badge scheme where I live as they know so many are obtained through deception. More than half was their own quote.

This is the same council that sells far more parking permits than possible space and allow meter parking too!

On percentage there is far more expensive cars sit in the disabled bays than the remainder of the car park I go.

I understand that disabled doesn't necessarily mean wheelchairs. When they get out they often look more than fine and look a bit sheepish if you look in their direction.

However the law of averages would suggest that the disabled bays shouldn't be full of expensive cars over standard bays. I don't recal working with many registered disabled people with badges over the years.

I understand there is plenty of disabled people who have worked hard and deserve their range rover. There is far too many though.

I hope you dad is well and he fully merited his.

There is just too many people who abuse the entire system.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Kerr said:


> However the law of averages would suggest that the disabled bays shouldn't be full of expensive cars over standard bays. I don't recal working with many registered disabled people with badges over the years.
> 
> I understand there is plenty of disabled people who have worked hard and deserve their range rover. There is far too many though.
> 
> ...


Given that they say the odds of getting cancer, as an example, is 1 in 3. I don't think the averages would be that far off. Add to that a lot of working people may have life insurance policies which pay out in the event of critical illness then it's really not that far fetched to think someone could splash out.

Our neighbours dad was driving around in an old Hyundai Santa Fe, he was diagnosed with cancer and shortly after traded it in for, funnily enough, a nearly new Range Rover.

Also know of someone in a wheelchair that was driving around in a new Mini through the mobility scheme and it was cheaper than him getting something like an Astra. When he explained it, it sounded similar to a PCP where the depreciation/future value was taken into account to establish the monthly contract payments.

Again, I'm not disagreeing that many do take advantage. But, like everything, there's a bigger picture to see too.

To balance what I've said, I also know of someone who's only apparent disability is that she's got some problems with her shoulders & wrists and is pretty fat (sorry if that offends anyone) and every 2 or 3 years they trade in for a new car which her son (and carer) drives her about in. Current one is a 61 plate Ford S-Max Titanium.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm fully aware of other possibilities. 

1 in 3 people are supposed to get cancer. It is still all the law of averages though.

Most people who sadly get struck down with cancer won't own a premium car. Most people without cancer also won't own a premium car. 

You should never end up with so many people of reasonable age with a badge driving premium cars. 

The fact my local council have admitted the mass misuse of blue badges only highlights what I've seen over.the years. 

You can throw every possibility but disabled people will always make up the minority of the country and the proportion of being young and with premium cars even lower. 

Plenty of genuine cases, masses of badges unjustified or not used in the correct circumstances. 

How many people do you know who use a mobility car as a family member is disabled? 

Just thinking of that I know far more of them than disabled people. 

They all use the car for personal use and have access to a blue badge.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

I'm struggling here to understand what the objection to a badge holder owning a premium car is ??

If a person has a good job but is disabled is that person not still allowed a nice car ??

My dad when he was alive had nice cars and was struck with osteo arthritis .. In time he could hardly walk and got a blue badge so he would be able to get to places and park close by.. If he had had to walk far yes he would have done it but the pain he suffered later in the day would have been far worse and believe me its not a pleasant site to see at the best of times let alone endure !!

Only a fraction of those with a blue disability badge are on the disability benefit !! 

The spaces are put there for a reason... To let those who are disabled park close to the door and have sufficient space to get in and out of their cars..

Parking in these spaces is at best misguided and in reality is just plain ignorant and bloody selfish !!


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

ChuckH said:


> A disabled bay is for disabled people that have been given a blue badge ...
> 
> It is NOT for anyone else no matter what the excuses !!
> 
> Blimey how did We all manage before the mother and child spaces were created !


Cars were smaller when the standard width of parking spaces was decided.

Compare a 1970 car width to a new range rover and how much space they leave either side in a standard parking space. Also the cars are longer now days which usually results in longer doors which subsequently results in them opening wider.

So your the kind of person who doesnt bend courtesy rules for the good/safety of others.

As said I stand by the OP and am happy that his wife decided to keep his kids safer.



ChuckH said:


> To say that its OK to use one as there were several empty and use that as a defence is just daft ! Its like saying its OK for me to drive at 90 just because the roads were quiet ..


This comparison is one of the worst I read, not even similar.

And I have had a lot of dealing with ill people, both grand parents and an uncle died of cancer so I'm well aware that they need to park close to certain places but one place they do not really need to is the super market. Asda/Tesco are massive now, if your fit enough to walk up and down every lane pushing a trolly, I think you can walk the extra 20m to the shop door. Whereas a Mum with multiple kids actually creates a danger in car parks.

And I doubt anyone in here has a problem with the truely disabled people, I think is what gets their back up is the people who falsely claim their ill and it tars peoples perceptions. I got offered a Blue Badge because I have Asthma, people get them because there fat, none of these are proper reasons to get one.


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## Cambelt (Jul 4, 2012)

I find children in shops to be quite annoying. 

Not really a useful contribution to this debate, but hey ho.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Can't be arsed to read through all the blue badge argument crap, but did the OP pay or not in the end?

I for one wouldn't park in a blue badge area because I'm not disabled, couldn't care 2 hoots if others do. I would care though if it impacted on me (ie. if I did have a blue badge - whether I deserved one or not, that's another argument)

I don't park in parent and child either when I don't have my child with me even if I have my car seat in. But many others park in them without anything.... and that's down to them being.. A:dumb B:Useless C:Lazy


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

I'm 23 and when my mum takes me out she still goes in the parent and child section................ is that ok?


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Bod42 said:


> Cars were smaller when the standard width of parking spaces was decided.
> 
> Compare a 1970 car width to a new range rover and how much space they leave either side in a standard parking space. Also the cars are longer now days which usually results in longer doors which subsequently results in them opening wider.
> 
> ...


Zephyr 6 ?? Vauxhall 101 ?? You are joking yeh ? Giving up extremes like a Range Rover is just papering over the facts that Disabled spaces are for DISABLED people and ignoring that is just ignorant and unfair to those that need them..


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## mart. (Jul 7, 2008)

robertdon777 said:


> Can't be arsed to read through all the blue badge argument crap, but did the OP pay or not in the end?


No haven't done anything.

Funny, walked past the same disabled bay today and saw a car parked over 2 bay's, front end in one, rear in the other.
He had a badge tho so that's alright.


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

ChuckH said:


> Zephyr 6 ?? Vauxhall 101 ?? You are joking yeh ? Giving up extremes like a Range Rover is just papering over the facts that Disabled spaces are for DISABLED people and ignoring that is just ignorant and *unfair to those that need them*..


Exactly, those who need them. There was noone that needed them, there were 8 spare.

To me its the same as giving up your space to an old person on a bus/train. If there are zero seats I will give mine up but if the bus/train is empty Im not going to give my seat up and stand the entire journey just incase 8 OAPs get on at the next stop.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Bod42 said:


> Exactly, those who need them. There was noone that needed them, there were 8 spare.
> 
> To me its the same as giving up your space to an old person on a bus/train. If there are zero seats I will give mine up but if the bus/train is empty Im not going to give my seat up and stand the entire journey just incase 8 OAPs get on at the next stop.


Unless you sit in the car for the duration of being in the car park, it's not like giving up a seat at all.

By sitting in a "priority seat" on the train, you can see that someone may need your seat. You leave your car in a space unattended and venture into the shop/town/cinema. You can't see the comings or goings in the car park. And if you did, would you really just leave your trolley/movie and nip out to move the car for the person needing the space?


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Bod42 said:


> Exactly, those who need them. There was noone that needed them, there were 8 spare.
> 
> To me its the same as giving up your space to an old person on a bus/train. If there are zero seats I will give mine up but if the bus/train is empty Im not going to give my seat up and stand the entire journey just incase 8 OAPs get on at the next stop.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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