# How do i recover property that hasn't been paid for.



## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

Hi All

We own a small Aerial and Satellite business which has been going for a while now. We have never had a problem in terms of being paid untill now.

We installed a Satellite dish with all the relevent cables and connections to a customers property to allow him to connect to a SKY box. He didnt want to go through SKY themselves as they had a waiting list and so he got us in to fit it before a certain football match was on. We installed the Dish which gave him a perfect picture however the subscribed channels where not working. This to be fair is nothing to do with us as we where only there to intall the dish. As we knew the customer we said we would contact SKY on there behalf. 3 hours later and we got the SKY box up and running as needed but SKY said the SKY box needed to be connected to a Phone line other wise they could incurr a monthly charge.

As thid took nearly half a day we didnt have time to install the telephone line and so we arranged to book in at a later date to complete the work. Again because we new the customer we said pay up when the entire work has been completed. For some reason after many attempts to contact the customer to arrange fitting for the telephone line we still had no time arranged due to the lack of communication from the customer. Only by going round one day on the off chance to see if we could install the Telephone line was there someone in for us to complete the installation. The work was carried out and everything was up and running as intended.

So to sum up. We fitted a SKY dish with Quad LNB, All the relevent cables and connections, fitted the phone line and spent 3 hours (at least) of our time trying to get there subscribed channels to work. All the work should have cost £220 but because he was a friend we gave them a considerable discount so the total was £130. As you would agree this is pence in terms of the work involved.

We then sent to customer a bill to which no payment was recieved. 3 months later and still no payement. After contacting the customer due to the amount of time it took us to install the phone line he incurred charges from SKY. As a gesture of will we decided not to charge for the phone line so that would leave only £75 to pay. He is still refusing to pay and i have got the feeling ive been had.

After no contact at all. We are seeking advice on whether we can legally retreive our property i.e SKy dish and cables etc.

any help would be greatfully recieved

Regards Rob


----------



## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

Most invoices have a statement like "All goods remain the property of XYZ Ltd until full payment has been received", do you have this on yours?

I'd start by sending the customer a letter detailing the outstanding balance and give him so many days to pay up. Inform him if this deadline is not met then you will proceed with further action and the legal fees incurred will be passed onto him.

If he fails to meet the deadline then you can open a small claims court case against him.

Some info here which is worth reading mate...

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_rights/legal_system/small_claims.htm

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingDebt/CourtClaimsAndBankruptcy/index.htm


----------



## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

Thank you DMH-01

Ill give that a good read. I know its not allot of money but its really made me angry that people think they can do this sort of thing and get away with it.

Kind Regards

Rob


----------



## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> Thank you DMH-01
> 
> Ill give that a good read. I know its not allot of money but its really made me angry that people think they can do this sort of thing and get away with it.
> 
> ...


No problems mate :thumb:

Agree with you on that it's the principle and from your post you have been more than generous with the customer.


----------



## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

if you dont mind me saying thats a crazy discount to offer why devalue your services to such an extent, i see this daily customer comes in with something not working on there car my engineer fixes is in ten mins and then they grumble when we ask for twenty quid its always the same it only took you ten minutes ! yes it took minutes as the engineer has been doing it for 20 years take it to a main dealer you pay double that for booking the car in, 

fries my brain


----------



## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

justina3 said:


> if you dont mind me saying thats a crazy discount to offer why devalue your services to such an extent


I'm guessing because it was a "friend" plus he wanted some money rather than nothing.


----------



## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

DMH-01 said:


> I'm guessing because it was a "friend" plus he wanted some money rather than nothing.


"3 months later and still no payement. After contacting the customer due to the amount of time it took us to install the phone line he incurred charges from SKY. As a gesture of will we decided not to charge for the phone line so that would leave only £75 to pay"

so people who dont pay get a massive discount i would go the other way and charge them interest.

not having a dig at anyone here please dont think i am just think sometimes when your to dam nice for your own good people walk all over you.

the so called mate has had a £225 job done and is still not paying the altered bill of £75 i would go around and take the dish back in the middle of his next beloved football match.


----------



## cts1975 (Feb 22, 2011)

Why not just go round and disable the dish & LNB? Tell them you have to send it back to the suppliers as it hasn't been paid for.
Treat him like he's treating you - people like that are normally thicked skinned and will pay up. Fight fire with fire. :devil:
We don't put up with bad payers - while you trying to recover payment from people like that you are missing oppurtunites with good customers.
I had a similar situation with a big customer about 10 years ago, we were really struggling to get paid, we stopped their account. They eventually went out of business and we are still here. :lol:


----------



## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

justina3 said:


> so people who dont pay get a massive discount i would go the other way and charge them interest.


Sadly, due to how times are this is the case depending on the size of the business. I agree with you, I would charge the full cost now plus interest.


----------



## cts1975 (Feb 22, 2011)

DMH-01 said:


> Sadly, due to how times are this is the case depending on the size of the business. I agree with you, I would charge the full cost now plus interest.


Yep its so easy to fall into the trap of discount.
We are happy to discount but as a last resort, we try to sell ourselves a bit more and then discount last. We are in a pretty competitive market (taxi/chauffeur/minibus hire) and get all sorts of prices played off on us.
It seems the OP new the customer before doing the work, which could now be the problem.


----------



## centenary (Sep 5, 2010)

Have to say, seems a crazy way of doing business by keep discounting so much for a friend who has got a freebie out of it.

TBH, I think your only recourse is through the legal route but, as you have now discounted the work so massively, it will cost you almost as much to get the 75 quid off your 'friend.'

You cannot just go onto his property to take back the equipment, that is trespass and he could (wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if he did) sue you if you went on his property to remove the dish. Anyway, how would you get the box which is inside!?

Sorry, but your only option is to write it off to experience.


----------



## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

Hi thank you for all your comments. The reason for the discount was because we new the customer quite well. I think there are some lessons to be learned here from what you are all saying.
1. Always ask for payment there and then.
2. State terms and conditions on the bill.
3. Don't give huge discounts unless close family.
4. Don't fold so easily. 

Thank fully the advice from a reply on here about sending a letter to the customer stating certain things has led to the customer paying up. 

I guess its all a learning curve and to add we don't normally give discount at all only to oap's as we do work for age concern. 

Many thanks 

Rob


----------



## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> Hi thank you for all your comments. The reason for the discount was because we new the customer quite well. I think there are some lessons to be learned here from what you are all saying.
> 1. Always ask for payment there and then.
> 2. State terms and conditions on the bill.
> 3. Don't give huge discounts unless close family.
> ...


good luck rob its easy sometimes to sit here and give everyone the big do this and do that I have been caught many many times like this and other situations as you say its all a learning curve thankfully its not a lot of money one of my classic ****s up have cost me over 50k


----------



## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

Yeah iam sure we have all be stung from time to time. Business can be cruel.

All the best buddy

happy detailing


----------



## David (Apr 6, 2006)

has the customer paid?

surely the aerial is still your posession until money changes hands? i'd be inclined to remove it from his property


----------



## Ming (Oct 16, 2007)

Can you not 'disable' it somehow?
You are entitled in law to seize property in lieu of an unpaid lawful debt. It does not - I think - have to be of similar value so in theory you could get his car towed to a secret location and only relaes it when the FULL bill is paid!!

If you consider his actions then you could say that he had no intention of paying. that means he is obtaining goods andobtaining services by deception. both offences under the theft act and both arrestable. The police will almost certainly tell you it is a civil debt but if you 'insisted' that you now believe that he never had any intention to pay then the police should both arrest him and seize the property as evidence.
Go round with a mate or two and lay these facts out to him.
See what reaction you get.
Also tell him the debt is accruing interest.
Ming the Understanding.


----------



## npinks (Feb 25, 2008)

Throw a rope round the dish, and tug it to miss align the dish so he will need some one the fix it or just cut the cable outside one dark evening


----------



## Method Man (Aug 28, 2009)

For all those of you who have on your *invoices* something like "Goods remain the property of the seller until paid for in full" then it is unenforceable as it is a post contractual condition relating to the sale.

It is part of contract law and is more commonly referred to as a "Retention of Title Clause" or "Reservation of Title Clause"

If you have issued a number of invoices over a period of time to the same person then the clause may be valid as it has been an accepted condition between the contracting parties (i.e. the buyer and the seller) to the sale(s) through a course of dealings.

It is advisable to include your terms and conditions of sale on something like a confirmation of order form or similar correspondence with the buyer *before* the work is started or the goods supplied.

It is also advisable and puts you in a stronger position if you convert your "simple" clause to an "All Monies" clause. This can be done by simply changing your clause to something along the lines of "All Goods Supplied by the Seller to the Buyer Remain the Property of the Seller Until All Sums Due From the Buyer to the Seller Have Been Paid in Full".

A solicitor would have charged you £200 for that!

More often than not, the 'law of the jungle' takes precedence and, as may well be the most practical action in this case, people simply turn up and remove their goods. Providing you don't cause damage to anything or anyone there's not much the other party can do if they aren't going to pay.


----------



## cleancar (Sep 21, 2006)

any updates?


----------



## quattrogmbh (May 15, 2007)

http://moneyclaim.gov.uk


----------



## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> .
> 3. Don't give huge discounts unless close family.
> 
> Rob xx


except to me chimp boy!
if you dont get it sorted ill send my mrs round,she'll knock his **** off.


----------



## Weazel (May 29, 2010)

Method Man said:


> For all those of you who have on your *invoices* something like "Goods remain the property of the seller until paid for in full" then it is unenforceable as it is a post contractual condition relating to the sale.
> 
> It is part of contract law and is more commonly referred to as a "Retention of Title Clause" or "Reservation of Title Clause"
> 
> ...


Going on from this i would suggest following the advice and go round there to take your property back and bite the bullet on labour costs.

Should he refuse to give it back i would remind him that he will then possibly fall within section 1 of the Theft Act 1968.


----------



## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

I would send him a final letter stating the amount owed giving a clear deadline and that if not paid it will be passed onto a debt recovery agency.

If they are a 'mate' they will pay up, otherwise pass it onto the debt recovery agency. They are obviously not that much of a mate if they are happy to screw you over.


----------



## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

I'd just write it off, use it as an example to yourself of what not to do.

£220 was cheap let alone £75

I'd also write a personal letter to him explaining what you did for him and the dissapointment you feel in him for not paying you.

Guilt does play on peoples minds.


----------



## Ducky (Mar 19, 2007)

cleancar said:


> any updates?





Paintmaster1982 said:


> Thank fully the advice from a reply on here about sending a letter to the customer stating certain things *has led to the customer paying up*.


:thumb:


----------

