# Are we living in the greatest era of the hot hatch?



## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Who remembers the era of the 1980's when we had the Escort Cosworth, Peugeot 205 GTI, VW's Golf GTI to name but a few. That's until the insurance industry pretty much killed them off because cars like these were a magnet for joy riders. But now we can take a step back and look at how good the hot hatch market is right now. You see;hot hatch lovers on this forum have never had things as good as they are right now, that's as long as we all live in Europe because other markets don't really cater for hot hatches with the exception of the latest Focus RS and new Civic Type R both selling in the USA. So now we have just about every car maker going about building a go faster, louder version of their regular, practical hatch back. We have Seat,Ford,VW and Renault who have perfected the way of a hot hatch and now even Mercedes,BMW and Audi have stormed in to the hot hatch market and lets not forget Skoda, Arbarth, and Vauxhall are still there in the mix and of course Peugeot and Honda- one time past masters of the genre are back in the groove. It seems only Mazda, Toyota and Volvo are holding back on their nutty turbo range toppers. Whether you prefer front or rear - drive, all-wheel drive, manual or paddles, four, five or six cylinders, you have to appreciate the sheer variety of hot hatches on the market today and long may it continue.

So these are the fastest accelerating hot hatches of the moment.


Arbarth 695 Biposto: 5.9 seconds to 60

Audi S1: 5.8 seconds to 60

VW Golf GTI: Clubsport S: 5.8 seconds to 60

Seat Leon Cupra SC 290: 5.7 seconds to 60

Honda Civic Type R: 5.7 seconds to 60

VW Golf R: 4.9 seconds to 60

BMW 140i; 4.8 seconds to 60

Focus RS Mounttune : 4.5 seconds to 60

Audi S3: 4.5 seconds to 60

Mercedes A45 AMG: 4.2 seconds to 60

Audi RS3: 4.1 seconds to 60

Now time to have your say and if you agree that this is a great era for hot hatches and can this really continue? Especially are we push towards E.V.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

No we are not. Too many people and manufacturers obsessesed with power, 0-60, Ring times. Rarely is feel, involvement raised which is what I crave. 

I could not give a damn if the next car is 0.1 sex quicker to 60 - if there is no involvement, no feedback then I'm not interested.


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

Surely we must be somewhere around the peak. The overall engine sizes of these hot hatches will have to shrink in the coming years; whilst they are able to squeeze a lot of the same power out of them for now, that can only go so far. Surely the next performance breeds will be either a hybrid mix or full on EV. The only good things about some of the older cars was that, being that bit slower, they could effectively be driven a bit harder as you wouldn't be going as quick; in the latest models you get up to a stupid level of speed in no time.

It will definitely be exciting to watch how it unfolds, although I'm not sure how I'd feel about missing a manual, when EV becomes the norm.


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## cossiecol (Jun 29, 2014)

No we're not, I'll refer you to the 1980's


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## leeandfay (May 2, 2017)

Well I just got rid of a mk7 golf R and into a Bmw m140i and I love both of them.

36mpg in the beemer, great noise and puts a smile on my face so I agree we are in a good place right now


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Whatever your generation is will be the best, like music!


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## wayne451 (Aug 15, 2016)

cossiecol said:


> No we're not, I'll refer you to the 1980's


They don't make the Renault 5 GT Turbo anymore so I'm out! :lol:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm sure most people would struggle to live with a 80/90s hot hatch as an every day car.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Well due to my age I have driven a good few 80/90'S hot hatches, but at the time I preferred my manta GTE and e30 sport , but for involvement of driving the man and machine connection was great , no drive by wire abs, traction control, so you were driving the car, not the car doing the work for you saving your ass.
I also like the latest gen hot hatches like better halfs F56 JCW and M135i and A45 ? For me you have quoted all the 0 to 60 times it's not about that for me it's about the pleasure and excitement of driving that are far more important to me than the quickest to 60, well sorted chassis for me before big HP any day.
You are best to tell us how you compare the S1 to M2 ? I could compare the MK1 gti to e30 sport for you ?


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## TonyHill (Jul 28, 2015)

Auto Allure said:


> Well I just got rid of a mk7 golf R and into a Bmw m140i and I love both of them.
> 
> 36mpg in the beemer, great noise and puts a smile on my face so I agree we are in a good place right now


How come you changed from the Golf....??


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

The difference is:

'Hot hatches' of today, while very nice are just fast cars with bags of refinement & driver aids. Im not saying they are not good....im not saying that

For driver involvement in something fast.....80's & 90's.

If i had the luxury of money & the choice id have a mint Sierra cosworth 3 door or a over an new Audi S3 or BMW M3 any day of the week


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

Depending on your choice, then some of today's hot hatches are very very capable and entertaining cars. In certain cases they are better than their predecessors but the problem for me isn't that modern hot hatches are boring, it's that the roads are far too busy now.


As for engine size shrinking, all of that list bar the abarth are 2 litres or bigger, the abarth and the 308gti are below that and yet still have comparable performance.


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## leeandfay (May 2, 2017)

TonyHill said:


> How come you changed from the Golf....??


It was 2 years old, Should have had DSG in it, Saw 2 many Lapis blue ones knocking around, Didn't have pretoria's on it, got a great deal from the BMW garage i work at, Fuel economy although not a huge deal was poor, and got bored so we ordered a Mineral Grey 140 with Red Leather.

Got nothing against the Golf but couldn't say no to the deal on the 140.


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

I've never had a car that could be called "fast"; when I was younger I didn't have the money and these days there's too many other things it needs to get spent on! But if I wanted something to drive and enjoy it I'd be looking hard at the Toyota GT86, maybe saving for a turbo conversion down the road. A man can dream anyhow...


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## mac1459 (Aug 25, 2011)

SB you missed out 
Astra j vxr 5.4 sec to 60 Vauxhall time , real life a lot faster

I grow up with all the HOT hatches mentioned
I have driven most off the early hot hatches , but straight line speed means nothing , cornering & balance being able to maintain control on tight flowing roads is more enjoyable .
mac


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

mac1459 said:


> SB you missed out
> Astra j vxr 5.4 sec to 60 Vauxhall time , real life a lot faster
> 
> I grow up with all the HOT hatches mentioned


They were never 5.4secs. Vauxhall claimed 5.9secs but that turned out to be very optimistic.

I remember the tests were all mid 6s and and 100mph was barely quicker than the old model. When weighed the car was much heavier than Vauxhall's claims.

Even the 300+bhp FWD DCT cars still can't do 5.4sec. That's a huge ask for FWD.


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

I'll take 0-60 and trade it for how a car goes through corners.
I live in England, we have lots of those 
They have some crackers in Wales too, my RCZ enjoyed those...

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## mac1459 (Aug 25, 2011)

Early models 2012 
2014/15 gearbox upgrades
2015/16 gearbox and fly wheel.
Do not believe every thing certain tests show as with all hot hatches listed they have progressed from the first model.
I enjoy mine as is for fast cruising ,B&C roads.
mac


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## wayne451 (Aug 15, 2016)

steelghost said:


> I've never had a car that could be called "fast"; when I was younger I didn't have the money and these days there's too many other things it needs to get spent on! But if I wanted something to drive and enjoy it I'd be looking hard at the Toyota GT86, maybe saving for a turbo conversion down the road. A man can dream anyhow...


I just busted my nuts to buy the car and worried about paying the insurance later.

I had a Nova GTE and a modified Renault 5 GT Turbo at the same time when I was 17.

I used to love coming out of college and caning it past everyone driving their parents Nissan Micras etc. :lol:

Had 3 GT Turbos and I'll get another some day. My last one, before I blew it up, had the EP Motorsport 300BHP spec engine. It was an utter animal until about 110mph. It made R33 Skylines and V8 Esprit Turbos look like they were Fiesta Pop Plus' in reverse. :wave:


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## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

Andyg_TSi said:


> 'Hot hatches' of today, while very nice are just fast cars with bags of refinement & driver aids.


I'd agree with that.

The current cars may be very fast, and very refined and full of toys and gadgets, but they are by and large pretty characterless and unappealing in appearance.

The 'real' hot hatches (and not all of them were necessarily that 'hot'), had character, appeal and were fun to drive.


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

The 80's hot hatches were small, lightweight and nimble.

The new "hot hatches" are much bigger and much heavier, so the extra bhp is a bit irrelevant.

Closest you could get now would be to strip all the bulk out of a (say) VW Polo and slap a decent 2 litre engine in.

So I don't think we are in a golden age.

BTW I have driven Renault 5 turbos, older Golf GTI's, Pug 205's etc in the past.


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## rob267 (Nov 27, 2015)

I got to say no. 
I had mainly fords in my younger years. 

First car was a 1988 xr3i. Then more xr's and rs's and a couple gtis.
What set them apart from the normal cars for me was the styling and character that they had.
Also the general public perception of hot hatches back in the day was different.
Everybody knew what was hot and what was boring.
These days you can have a small engine but all the looks of a hot model which i think is wrong.
Hot hatches should stand above the rest of the model range.
I currently drive a 2013 focus st.
Owned it for around a month. It is the closest i have found to reliving my youth. Fun fun hot hatch. But still not from the greatest era of hot hatches. That era in my opinion was between 1985 to 1995.


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## ashleyman (May 17, 2016)

I was born in 1989 so I never got to experience the older cars except for being a passenger. My dad had a Sierra RS Cosworth in black and was probably as OCD about his car as I was mine, I remember being told to never touch the glass. :lol:

I have a 2016 Golf R and I bloody love it. It's good EVERYWHERE. Downsides, as mentioned previously is the power is a bit too much on UK roads. NSL twisties with ESC on Sport are fun but definitely not as challenging in the R as they were my 120BHP Ford Fiesta Zetec S, well not unless pushing 3 digits! And the turning circle is a bit crap, apart from that it's an incredible machine and I'm slowly making it mine with choice mods.

There seems to be a lot of hot hatch theft though. Lots of S3 and Golf R models seem to go missing through car jackings or burglary for keys. Insurance has gone up since owning the car, not down. Hopefully they don't become uninsurable as I really do like my R and wouldn't know what to replace it with...


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

I own a 80's hatch and love it to bits although I've no driven it for a few years.
You get quite a different buzz from owning and driving a classic hatch.

Are we in the greatest era - yes I think we are. With what a hatch buys nowadays gets you alot of car, take the R as an example, 300bhp, Driver aids Inc LC, safety aspects, refinement etc etc, ticks all the boxes which is what they should do

Are they greatest hatchs - no imo but this is all down to what type of driver you are. Although I was born late 80's I've drove a mk1 golf gti (mine) a Mk2 gti and tbh that all o can remember this early in the morning! 
I love older cars, I love the character, the heritage, the story of what that car had been though in its year's and what it meant for the modern hatchs. This is something a modern hot hatch cannot do.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

In the 80/90s people were delighted with Peugeots, Citroens, Fiats etc. It didn't matter how many rattles, it didn't matter that you had to manually do everything like wind down the windows. It didn't matter if the car shook the windows down above 80mph. Little buzzing engines didn't bother anyone either. People just made the best of what they had.

Now it has to be a BMW, Audi or Merc, It has to do 0-60mph in 4.x secs. Everyone is obsessed with their vanity and the car has to project that. It has to do absolutely everything for you and you don't want to lift a finger. It doesn't matter if you're swimming in masses of debt to have one.

It's still not enough and people aren't happy. Says a lot about modern times. :lol:


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## Gav147 (Mar 20, 2011)

I think the problem lies in that they are almost too good for our roads if you know what I mean, you want to get the most out your ~350bhp 4wd hot hatch and you are well into licence losing territory.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Gav147 said:


> I think the problem lies in that they are almost too good for our roads if you know what I mean, you want to get the most out your ~350bhp 4wd hot hatch and you are well into licence losing territory.


That's exactly the point. The M135i I have does have character, its unruly, you have to treat it with respect - that's why I chose it over a Golf R - the M125i is not the most involving of cars but in the R I just felt like I was doing nothing to contribute to the drive

I was close to replacing the M135i with an Abarth 595 Compezione that I have test driven and it was great fun, far from perfect but so involving....until I tested the 4C last week. Admittedly a long way from a hot hatch but so incredibly alive and involving without being stupidly quick - far more about the experience than the statistics


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

I just need to look at the reviews of 5(3 new Golf clubsport to see the car is set up well but it seems all these cars are marketed so heavily as halo cars you have little chance getting one even though you want one, Porsche is brilliant at that.
It's a shame because I think there would be great demand for a cost effective everyday stripped out car ,low weight is big issue with all the safety stuff needed and pedestrian crash regs again changed how fronts packaged.
I just wish more would start at chassis level then up, the Ford Fiesta does a great job in that area love my sones one


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Derekh929 said:


> I just need to look at the reviews of 5(3 new Golf clubsport to see the car is set up well but it seems all these cars are marketed so heavily as halo cars you have little chance getting one even though you want one


Really good friend of mine picked up a new Golf Clubsport that was sat at a dealers unsold - at a 4k discount

I think a lot of VW dealers secured allocation with fake orders (far from uncommon) hoping to sell that at a premium and the demand has not been there. My friend was advised that if he did not like the one they had in stock they had access to others


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

andy665 said:


> Really good friend of mine picked up a new Golf Clubsport that was sat at a dealers unsold - at a 4k discount
> 
> I think a lot of VW dealers secured allocation with fake orders (far from uncommon) hoping to sell that at a premium and the demand has not been there. My friend was advised that if he did not like the one they had in stock they had access to others


I should have said the club sport S is that the one with no rear seats? thats all sold out?, BMW have similar situation with all their specials on M3/4 30 Jahre M3 sitting in showrooms with knowbody buying, feel for the ones that paid full list but hey its the gamble you take.


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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

Hot hatchs are definitely at the best they've been but so comes along the price tag. Most seem to start at 30k nowadays


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## AS_BO (Sep 29, 2013)

Clio 182 Trophy - in my opinion the best hot hatch of the last 20 years, prior to that 205 GTI 1.9.

172/182/Cup/Trophy I think had the balance just right, enough creature comforts to get by but grab it by the scruff of the neck and fling it down a B Road and you knew  it's a power race these days, I mean 2.0 hatches are producing more power than hero cars of yesteryear like Impreza's, Evo's, Skyline GT-R's!

Good friend of mine has an M140i and out of the current crop of hatches that's what I'd pick. Not for badge, or the prestige - for driver involvement.


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## jayw13702 (Apr 11, 2017)

I was watching a clip on the internet a few weeks ago, the presenter was comparing an 80’s 106 rallye with a brand new 911!!!!
Ok we all know that the 911 would walk all over the 106, an 80’s 911 would have done so back in the day. But that wasn’t his point, his review looked at the way the car drove, fed back to him, communicated the corner and made him feel that he was actually part of the car rather than just someone who pushed the loud pedal and steered it in the right direction.
Modern cars are the height of comfort and luxury, they are safe places to be in and they do an element of thinking for you. And in doing so they remove you from the driving experience.
Give me an 80’s or 90’s pre-abs hot hatch with zero driver aids and they will give a more involved experience than today’s counterparts, however today’s hot hatches with totally cream them in the 0-60 and top speed stakes.


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

You don't need big Bhp to have fun.

Currently waiting for my Abarth 595 Competizione to arrive so running around in my cherished Seicento Sporting Abarth.










A mighty 54Bhp but it's a hoot.

Ok, no aircon or much in the way of safety features / protection so not an ideal as a daily but as a car to take out for fun, it's great.

I had a new XR2 back in 1988. Loved that. Keep looking for a mint Crystal Blue one.......


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Nice socks, and Fiesta.


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## Clarkey-88 (Apr 29, 2014)

I was born in 1988 so didn't start driving until 2005. I think I would've liked to have been driving in the late 80's early 90's hot hatch era, when the Rs turbos, Xr2&3i's, Renault 5GTT, Clio 1.8 16v, Nova & Astra GTE's were around.

As what's been said already about the newer hot hatches; they get up to silly speeds very quickly, and you have to treat them with respect. Ok you get a thill of the oomph they have, but I think that being able to use all of the power all of the time whilst going pretty quickly is far more exciting, especially when you've got a loud exhaust fitted that expresses just how hard you're driving it. Going by today's refinement you wouldn't be able to live with that, but at the time it would've been great fun (unless you were too old! )

I suppose the closest thing I had to an XR2i was a 2001 mk5 Fiesta Zetec s as it was essentially the same car underneath. It had a 1.7 Puma engine fitted, full miltek exhaust inc manifold, coilovers and a sound system (obviously) and it was great fun! But when I had this the newer generation of hot hatches were already around so it wasn't as cool. If it was back in the late 80's and early 90's when cars like this were the hot hatches to have, I feel I would've appreciated it a hell of a lot more


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

I think you youngsters (!) who weren't around in the 80's, would be impressed with the light weight and nimbleness of the hot hatches back then.

But i think you would probably be shocked by the internal noise and vibration, not just from the engine, but from the complete lack of sound insulation back then and the less substantial quality of internal fittings like dashboards and door cards. 

They would feel quite basic compared to modern cars. 

I think that is part of the reason that track day versions of sports cars are popular - take a modern car like an M3 or 911, then strip out a lot of the noise deadening and thicker materials and make it more involving at any speed.

I had a Mk1 Cavalier SRI as a company car for a while in the 80's and it was the dogs danglies !!


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

GleemSpray said:


> But i think you would probably be shocked by the internal noise and vibration, not just from the engine, but from the complete lack of sound insulation back then and the less substantial quality of internal fittings like dashboards and door cards.


A friend had a Citroen Ax GT and it pretty much meets all the criteria above lol. I went to buy a Cavalier Sri 8v back in 1995, drove it, loved it, but couldn't insure it. Boo. For 115bhp, it was pretty quick. I had planned to personalise it with a set of 16" alessio mondails. They looked immense on the saloon cavaliers.

Cooks

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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Fastest era yes but best? I'm not so sure. 

A hot hatch is meant to be accessible whether that be in terms of price and/or performance. I don't think todays hyper hatches are either really. Yes they are extremely quick and capable but they are also extremely high priced really. Golf/Focus/Megane etc aside the Mercedes and Audi are near £50k! 

To me the current hot hatch that ticks the boxes is the Fiesta ST! Quick but not too quick, affordable and a car you could drive hard without ending up losing your licence in the first 5 minutes.


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

I go up to the far north of scotland quite a bit, in my 1973 manta, and before that in my a3 1.8t quattro (RIP)
The manta is way more fun (and scary......)


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## The Incredible Hulk (Nov 19, 2005)

I've had a Few hot hatches; Mk2 XR2 was the first and at the time I thought it was so go-cart like, changed to a Toyota Corolla GTi 16v (fwd variant) which lost a bit in chuck ability but introduced me to a sweet sounding high revving engine (oh and reliability). I then had a deposit on a used Honda Civic VTi (talking early 90s, I think it had 150bhp) but my head was well and truly turned by the recently launched Clio 16v (1992) I didn't even notice the ropey interior (and this was brand new) it was a test drive on a B road and at the first corner I thought SOLD. I put 80k miles on it and there were numerous breakdowns in the first few years (clutch cables, fuel pump, brakes) but I was enthralled by B road blasts and thought it was probably the best hatch I'd ever had (I was wrong). But of a gap and sensible head came in, then in a moment of madness I traded in my E36 318i for a Nissan Pulsar GTiR. I loved the 'dog chewing a wasp' look with the bonnet vent and the big wing. It never put a foot wrong over the 2 years I owned it tho I kept it standard, probably the reason it still had the original clutch when I sold it with 75k to a great Welshman who then uprated numerous things and took it racing / hill climbing (I'll see if I can find a few YouTube clips). The next hatch (after an Impreza turbo estate) was the best hatch I've had to date, step forward the Honda Integra Type R. I bought a 3 year old car with 8k miles that had been stored in a multi-car garage set up. There followed 2 years of simply amazing ownership with nought going wrong, handling that was sublime and a genuine love of passing through 8k revs. The seats were amazing tho the interior was a tad 'taxi like' and out of VTEC in the wrong hear it would be passed by any 2ltr family car! Oh and finally the gear change is a thing you have to try, I judge all cars against it and they tend to fail miserably tho the closest to it came in the shape of my next hot hatch - step forward the Honda Civic Type R Premier. Back to high levels of chuck ability, high revs and a great gear change - cheap to run and great fun! I took a few years off again with having a growing family it made sense to get more traditional family cars. That was the case until just under two years ago when I thought lets dip my toe back in. I tested a Golf R, and Audi S3 and a BMW M135! I could've bought any and I know I would've been happy but I decided the days of a big engine small car driving the rear wheels were numbered so in went the order for the BMW. Nigh on 2 years down the road and I'm still loving the sound of the 6 cylinder and the pace is astounding. I tried the manual but it was not for me, after driving the Honda family BM are a fair way off of that quality however the 8sp ZF is in itself an amazing piece of kit. Where will I go next, not sure but I want to test drive the new Honda Civic Type R just to feel a quality gear change again tho I'm not sure I'd buy one, then again,... I'll close by saying that my 17 year old son is always confused when he asks which one I enjoyed most and I reply the Integra - like any 17 year old boy he's obsessed by power, he has much to learn but I fear the next generation may not be as inspiring,... apologies for the long post.


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## The Incredible Hulk (Nov 19, 2005)

Couldn't find the YouTube clips on the pulsar in action but a link to a still photo set of the little beast!





And a link to the Civic when Brazo came round to detail it;
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=30952


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

andy665 said:


> No we are not. Too many people and manufacturers obsessesed with power, 0-60, Ring times. Rarely is feel, involvement raised which is what I crave.
> 
> I could not give a damn if the next car is 0.1 sex quicker to 60 - if there is no involvement, no feedback then I'm not interested.


I cannot agree more, you should be a motoring journo, slapping out 0 out of 5 stars to all these completely rekt machines which are utterly pants.

The entire motoring industry seems to be populated by Audi TT drivers who buy cars only for the badge/style and have utterly no other comprehension whatsoever as to what the heck makes a car great.

We are getting ever more lardy, larger and heftier cars to drive which are stiffer than a curates dog collar, cannot cope with modern roads and have utterly no chance of putting their immense torque into the deck at the best of times.

The physics are still the same with front wheel drive and you will not convince me that 300hp or something daft in a front driver is a good idea.

Too many people are obsessed with numbers which have no real relevance as an overall package. I have driven one of those Fiat sex toy things a lot (not the bi-polar version) and you won't convince me it was anything like a decent hot hatch. It was thrummy and completely characterless, even for a damned girl's car.

I have driven a number of the 80's hot hatches, and yes the involvement is markedly different, and they felt plenty quick enough because of the smaller size and reduced weight. I had never thought of it before but yes that does explain the trend to buy older cars and then strip them out to track them.

Of course the only problem with the 80's/90's hatches were that they were so popular half the street would nick it just to give it a thrash.

EDIT

Just had a question pop into my head. With the increasing cost and monster of these hatches, and as someone made the point- (you will lose your license before you enjoy a 350hp AWD hatch), is there much to be said for buy say a regular 2 or 3 litre car, non-cooking, perhaps second hand, and then spending the saving on the right tyres and dampers, so it corners rather nicely but has to be kept on the boil which means more of the dreaded car/clutch/interaction?

Just how fast could you make a non-cooking car? I only ask because some years ago my uncle had a very nice 323i BMW which drove very sweetly but just didnt have the sex appeal of the M3??

And yes, there has to be a cut off, as these hatches get more and more expensive, you get dangerously close into the arena where you can buy a 'real' car- coming from a sports saloon type of course!


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

ollienoclue said:


> I cannot agree more, you should be a motoring journo, slapping out 0 out of 5 stars to all these completely rekt machines which are utterly pants.
> 
> The entire motoring industry seems to be populated by Audi TT drivers who buy cars only for the badge/style and have utterly no other comprehension whatsoever as to what the heck makes a car great.
> 
> ...


The definition of a hot hatch is a car that does everything. The needs and expectations from a hot hatch have completely changed. There wouldn't be a market for an old school hot hatch in the modern market. People want all the luxuries, media interfaces and technology.

Hot hatches are getting more expensive. Isn't everything else too? It has always been the case you could buy a 'real' car for the price of brand new hot hatch. Nothing has changed there.

I would say most people buy old cars to take to the track for the simple reason they are cheap. Track days still suffer with the age old problem that the vast majority of people can't actually drive that well. Fast between corners, slow round about them.

Drivers have always been obsessed by figures. Back then the arguments were 9sec v 8sec for 0-60mph.

The quicker hatches also struggled to put their power down through the front wheels.

If the young ones are reading this and thinking they missed out on loads, here's a video to show how the cars were.






Nostalgia gets stronger every year.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

That Knockhill video always brings a smile to my face , with just unruly some of those cars were, totally bonkers and most would be red flagged on track day for half of that know:driver:

The last twice I have been karting I was on last strike  the guys comments at the track was its always the older ones that give me the most trouble:lol:


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

andy665 said:


> No we are not. Too many people and manufacturers obsessesed with power, 0-60, Ring times. Rarely is feel, involvement raised which is what I crave.
> 
> I could not give a damn if the next car is 0.1 sex quicker to 60 - if there is no involvement, no feedback then I'm not interested.


It doesn't matter if you win by an inch, or a mile........winnings winning :car:

Regards Dom Torretto


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