# Fog Machine/Deodoriser



## cheezemonkhai

Having done some theatre work I know you can get cheap fog machines such as this one:

http://www.terralec.co.uk/fog_and_haze_machines/compact_mini_fog_machine/20947_p.html

I've seen you can get car deodoriser things which you apply with a fogger and my main question is what is so special about he other foggers apart from the fact they are heavier duty?

My thinking is a £30 fogger should be fine for occasional use on friends and family basis.


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## ferrariman1957

I use a Wynns machine (as used by VW UK).

The diference I have been told is some leave a sticky residue in the car and air system, the Wynns works on dry air so I have been told.

JJB


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## ukimportz

foggers are really bad m8 i bought one used it once and binned it!! it left a horrible residue on the inside winscreen, plastics etc, etc, so i bought an autosmart aromatek which is awesome


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## dan_almond

Autosmart Aromatek is probably the best one about. Althought it just a metal box with a computer fan that blows a cartridge of smelly stuff around the car. Still, i wouldnt get rid of it for the world.


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## Timmo

the foggers are great if you want to simply mask the smell for 3 weeks! thats pretty much all they do! 
you want to get your self an AS aromatek which actaully eats away at the bacteria in the car and removes the smell properly which is why it costs so much more!

there was a thread about the same question a couple of weeks ago! will try and dig it out!

*EDIT* 
here you go! on the same page as this just near the bottom!!!!
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=53178


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## Multipla Mick

Foggers are great as smoke machines, as deodourisers they are landfill. As said above AS Aromatek is the way to go :thumb:


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## cheezemonkhai

Ok let me perhaps rephrase the question.

Why is the Aromatec any different, I can't see it. Essentially all it is doing is vaporising the chemical into the air. If you use the same chemical in either machine then I can't see why the results would be any different.

I'm not talking about fogging with "peachy smelling fog" I'm talking about using the same chemicals but just putting them in the tank of a cheap fogger rather than a £200 ish fogger.

To me that machine looks exactly the same as theatrical fog machines I used to use with a remote that took fog cartridges. You had different carts for different smells or lingers etc. 

Therefore using an odour neutralising chemical the same as the autosmart can somebody give me some form of evidence that the auto smart will have different results?

Like I said "It's a better built machine" is totally valid and most likely true, but "it gets better results" without backup isn't likely to prove convincing.

EDIT: Just to clarify I would be buying suitable chemicals that wouldn't leave a residue rather than just cheap old stuff. 3 Weeks is no better than Autoglym Autofresh so there would be no point in that.


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## Ultra

there is no liquid involved with the aromatek therefore no sticky mess.


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## cheezemonkhai

dennis said:


> there is no liquid involved with the aromatek therefore no sticky mess.


There has to be, the Aromatek takes cartridges which on the other thread it states can dry out. That cartridge might well contain a chemical, but it is still going to be a liquid.

I'm guessing that a peizo would then vapourise this liquid, which has a special blend of solvents used such that they don't leave residue. The thing has to obey the laws of chemistry/physics and can't just work by Magic.

You can't vaporise a solid to a gas unless you are using something nasty like iodine which would sublime.

Any input from an Autosmart rep or somebody who has one of these would be great.

Like i said i'm not knocking the machine and I'm sure it's fantastic for pro use every day, but once every 6 months means that a £300 machine isn't needed.


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## Ultra

i agree that it is a pricey bit of kit, but i you dismantled a cartridge you would see that inside is some felt like material impregnated in [whatever].
which is heated up by the aromatek and circulated by a fan there is no moisture
to leave any residue.


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## cheezemonkhai

Without wanting to offend you dennis.

That felt in the cartridge must be holding onto a liquid. Heating it causes the liquid to be vaporised and as such circulated by the fan as a vapour or gas. 

There is "moisture" in terms of liquid, but it might not be water/oils that leave sticky deposits.

As I said, you can't get around the laws of physics and so there will be liquid in the cart, even if it is soaked into foam/felt.

The machine sounds well thought out but as far as I can see it is still a fogger with good chemicals ideal for cars.

The normal foggers with flavoured chemicals would be an absolute nightmare I am well aware as these are often very oily to make the smell linger and I really wouldn't want this, but you can get other chemicals to use too.


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## Ultra

no offence taken, the scent of the aromatek is very similar to nuetradol deoduoriser in spray cans or a gel pack.
and you right in saying that the normal foggers are a nightmare, tried once never again.
i,m not easily offended monkhai and dont mind a bit of constructive banter.


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## haxbyscoobs

I have AS Aromatek - Can't beat it really compared with the cheap disco fogging machines!!

The only good thing about the cheap ones is the thrill of watching your car fill with smoke
Even more thrilling seeing one, like Mick says on a landfill site

I guess you go with what your budget can allow for
I was quite lucky that i got my AS Aromatek for the bargain price of 70.00 notes
with four catridges

I'd be lost without mine
and the fruits of the forest cartridge is divine!!


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## Ultra

what did you do to get it that cheap lol.


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## haxbyscoobs

another valeter was selling it on another forum i saw it for sale and asked him if it was still for sale he said yes so i sent the money and got the machine
Think he had 2 so wanted rid of one


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## The Doctor

Proof is in the pudding.

Use both then you can make your own mind up which is best or ask for a demonstration of both.

Foggers create fog obviously.The smokey fog is dense and will not penetrate the fabrics. It simply settles on the surface of everything leaving a residue and dust everywhere with a scent that lasts a few weeks maximum.

The Aromatek uses dry vapour which penetrate deep into the fabrics and kill the bacteria producing the bad smell. The important word from Autosmart here is 'dry vapour' so theres no sticky residue to clean up afterwards and the car doesnt even need to be re-valeted.


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## cheezemonkhai

Ok but what do you mean by "Dry Vapour".

That is just marketing speak as by it's very nature vapour can't be dry. It can contain no water or no oils, but if it's a 'vapour' there is something that has been vaporised into the air.

Sorry, I'm quite anal on this having done chemistry at uni.

What I am trying to get my head around is how using your machine with your chemicals would be different from using a standard fogger with chemicals the same as yours. After all it is the choice of chemical that makes the fog dense. If you change the chemicals you change the fog.

If anyone is willing to demo one of the machines for me I'm more than willing to be convinced.


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## Ultra

dry vapour = no moisture = no residue.
sure de-odourant is dry vapour.
lynx crap is,nt .
nuetradol is dry vapour.
tesco home brand deodouriser is,nt.


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## cheezemonkhai

Ok from a chemistry point of view...

All vapour contains liquid of one for or another. It's can't be dry or that would be dust. 
"Dry Vapour" is a contradiction.

I can assure you Neutradol is not "Dry Vapour" spray it against a mirror and see the liquid.


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## haxbyscoobs

ok the cheap machine emits fog

the aromatek doesn't

Come down too the meet on the 20th at Autobrite and i'll stick my bloody As Machine in your car for you and show you what it does

and for christs sake is there any point in arguing the bloody chemistry of a machine cartridge
It does its job end off!!


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## cheezemonkhai

haxbyscoobs said:


> ok the cheap machine emits fog
> 
> the aromatek doesn't
> 
> Come down too the meet on the 20th at Autobrite and i'll stick my bloody As Machine in your car for you and show you what it does
> 
> and for christs sake is there any point in arguing the bloody chemistry of a machine cartridge
> It does its job end off!!


I'm arguing because I get people quoting marketing speak at me.

If somebody could say the chemicals are better because of x, or a fogger lets out too much chemical or something then fine. The replies in this thread however seem to have been to a certain extent group think based on marketing speak. "It uses dry vapour" is not a good technical answer.

It's like me saying use fairy to wash the car because "for hand's that do dishes, there's mild green fairly liquid".

Since I'm on the South coast I won't be attending the Autobrite meet as that would be about £100 worth of fuel by the time I'd gone there and back.


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## The Doctor

cheezemonkhai said:


> I'm arguing because I get people quoting marketing speak at me.
> 
> If somebody could say the chemicals are better because of x, or a fogger lets out too much chemical or something then fine. The replies in this thread however seem to have been to a certain extent group think based on marketing speak. "It uses dry vapour" is not a good technical answer.
> 
> It's like me saying use fairy to wash the car because "for hand's that do dishes, there's mild green fairly liquid".
> 
> Since I'm on the South coast I won't be attending the Autobrite meet as that would be about £100 worth of fuel by the time I'd gone there and back.


I suggest the only thing that will satisfy you is phoning Autosmart customer services and asking to speak to the tech dept. and argue with them.


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## cheezemonkhai

The Doctor said:


> I suggest the only thing that will satisfy you is phoning Autosmart customer services and asking to speak to the tech dept. and argue with them.


Why do you say that, I would hope that a seller of Autosmart products would be able to accurately explain why the machine is better than others on the market:

http://www.signaturearomas.co.uk/products/restaroma.html

for example.

Why is it that if I don't agree with the product X is great I get a light flaming and nobody can give a good technical answer.

I will actually give them a call and ask them to explain and send some literature, but I wish I hadn't bothered asking on here.

EDIT:

Right I've sent their tech dept an e-mail and asked for a good technical explanation of what makes that machine better than a cheap fog machine apart from the obviously better build quality.


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## dominic84

I used to have an Aromatek and to be totally honest I sold it because it was pretty useless. I often found that odours would return after a few weeks and the value of the cartridges is questionable when a vehicle needs more than one treatment.

Personally I think that because the cartridges are basically essential oils you would probably get similar results from a scented candle...


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## The Doctor

cheezemonkhai said:


> Why do you say that, I would hope that a seller of Autosmart products would be able to accurately explain why the machine is better than others on the market:


Hi,

I can only give you the information i know about the Aromatek which granted is fairly basic,and what Autosmart have told me. I can only go off feedback from people i have sold them to who use them regulary. I have never had a dis-satisfied customer who bought one and plenty people have backed that up in this thread alone.



cheezemonkhai said:


> Why is it that if I don't agree with the product X is great I get a light flaming and nobody can give a good technical answer.


I dont see where anybody has flamed you. You are asking about the scientific workings of the machine and quite frankly i dont make them so cannot explain the exact details of its internal workings. Someone in this thread has already offered to put one in your car and let you try it for yourself. I dont see how that is a flaming you.



cheezemonkhai said:


> I will actually give them a call and ask them to explain and send some literature, but I wish I hadn't bothered asking on here.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Right I've sent their tech dept an e-mail and asked for a good technical explanation of what makes that machine better than a cheap fog machine apart from the obviously better build quality.


Good,thats what its there for although i and others have already told you why its better than a fog machine. People who have used both machines have told you the difference but it seems you want an exact explanation on the internal workings of the machine from the power chord to the emission of the vapour at the other end.


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## The Doctor

dominic84 said:


> I used to have an Aromatek and to be totally honest I sold it because it was pretty useless. I often found that odours would return after a few weeks and the value of the cartridges is questionable when a vehicle needs more than one treatment.
> 
> Personally I think that because the cartridges are basically essential oils you would probably get similar results from a scented candle...


Hi Dominic. Im sorry you think the Aromatek is useless but everyone is entitled an opinion. What is classed as a fantastic product by one person maybe classed as rubbish by another. Its impossible to please everyone. However,the only time i have come across an Aromatek machine not working is when there are still some kind of solids left in a vehicle that are emmiting a bad smell. For example you could not leave a rotting fish under a seat and just put the Aromatek in and expect it to kill the smell. The car still needs to be spotlessly cleansed of solids and stains where the smell may be coming from. As i posted above,i have never had any complaints with the Aromatek when it is used properly and many people in this thread alone have had a lot of sucsess with it.


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## The Doctor

cheezemonkhai said:


> Why do you say that, I would hope that a seller of Autosmart products would be able to accurately explain why the machine is better than others on the market:
> 
> http://www.signaturearomas.co.uk/products/restaroma.html
> 
> for example.


A quote from the above website which you imply explain their machines properly.

_'essential oil cartridges to release a non-toxic, odour neutralising dry vapour into the air - this penetrating vapour quickly controls and eliminates malodour'_

Seems like the exact information i have already given you.


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## cheezemonkhai

haxbyscoobs said:


> ok the cheap machine emits fog
> 
> the aromatek doesn't
> 
> Come down too the meet on the 20th at Autobrite and i'll stick my bloody As Machine in your car for you and show you what it does
> 
> and for christs sake is there any point in arguing the bloody chemistry of a machine cartridge
> It does its job end off!!


Yes, such a friendly offer that really makes me want to drive 2/3rds of the way up the country to meet people!



The Doctor said:


> A quote from the above website which you imply explain their machines properly.
> 
> _'essential oil cartridges to release a non-toxic, odour neutralising dry vapour into the air - this penetrating vapour quickly controls and eliminates malodour'_
> 
> Seems like the exact information i have already given you.


No I didn't say they explained their machines properly, I asked how the aromatek is different to that product, what makes it better. Both use the non-term "dry vapour"

Nobody has as yet explained to me what exactly "Dry Vapour" other than it being a marketing term

It wasn't that I have an odour issue in the car, it was that I was interested in how the machines work and if one would actually be any good. How such an expensive machine would differ to a cheap one in terms of results if you use similar chemicals.

I don't want the exact workings from the power chord and I'm 99.9% sure I can take a good guess at exactly how it works, however as I said* "Dry Vapour" can not exist*, so what on earth do the Market Droids mean by it?


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## The Doctor

cheezemonkhai said:


> I don't want the exact workings from the power chord and I'm 99.9% sure I can take a good guess at exactly how it works, however as I said* "Dry Vapour" can not exist*, so what on earth do the Market Droids mean by it?


Obviously dry vapour can exist in some capacity otherwise it would not be quoted in the operation of two machines by two different manufacturers. Obviously it has to be 'dry' to some extent otherwise the car would be wet through after the machine had been throwing it out for hours in such a confined space. I dont know what your trying to get at other than argue about this 'dry vapour'. The machine works for the majority of people and thats all that matters IMO. Hopefully the AS techs will offer you suitable answers to your questions.

And i actually thought the offer to let you try someone elses machine in your car was a kind one. The guy owes you nothing and does not deserve the snappy reply you gave him. People are trying to help you since you asked for it not get involved in an argument. We are all here for one reason,because we love valeting/detailing whatever you want to call it and share experiences of products/techniques.


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## dominic84

> Hi Dominic. Im sorry you think the Aromatek is useless but everyone is entitled an opinion. What is classed as a fantastic product by one person maybe classed as rubbish by another. Its impossible to please everyone. However,the only time i have come across an Aromatek machine not working is when there are still some kind of solids left in a vehicle that are emmiting a bad smell. For example you could not leave a rotting fish under a seat and just put the Aromatek in and expect it to kill the smell. The car still needs to be spotlessly cleansed of solids and stains where the smell may be coming from. As i posted above,i have never had any complaints with the Aromatek when it is used properly and many people in this thread alone have had a lot of sucsess with it.


I appreciate many people have great success with this machine and my rep was as surprised as you that I wasn't achieving good results... perhaps my machine was defective in some way.

I would like to know however how many people have actually de-odorised a car with an Aromatek and then left it for up to two months to check if the smell comes back? I imagine in most cases a car would be de-odorised and out the door without ever really knowing if the odour was permanently eradicated?

I'm not against the Aromatek as it is the best of its breed but in my experience it's not quite the 'permanent solution to malodour' that it claims to be.


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## cheezemonkhai

The Doctor said:


> Obviously dry vapour can exist in some capacity otherwise it would not be quoted in the operation of two machines by two different manufacturers. Obviously it has to be 'dry' to some extent otherwise the car would be wet through after the machine had been throwing it out for hours in such a confined space. I dont know what your trying to get at other than argue about this 'dry vapour'. The machine works for the majority of people and thats all that matters IMO. Hopefully the AS techs will offer you suitable answers to your questions.
> 
> And i actually thought the offer to let you try someone elses machine in your car was a kind one. The guy owes you nothing and does not deserve the snappy reply you gave him. People are trying to help you since you asked for it not get involved in an argument. We are all here for one reason,because we love valeting/detailing whatever you want to call it and share experiences of products/techniques.


Just because somebody says something, it doesn't mean it has to be true, or any more than just made up marketing speak you know!

I was trying to get an understanding of what dry vapour is and having received a reply from Autosmart, *it is as I thought just a marketing term*. The "Dry Vapour" isn't dry it just isn't loaded with water. There are still other chemicals that are being vaporised in the same way any other liquid would be.

It's quite simple really, I like to understand how something achieves it's results so that I can have confidence in it before I consider splashing out a larger sum of money.

As for a kind offer, I hardly consider swearing at people a kind offer!

"I'll stick my bloody machine" etc?

Anyway I'll post up what the autosmart rep said when I get a chance.


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