# Hot hatches of old



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

The Focus thread was going a bit off topic, so I thought I'd start this for a bit of fun.

My recollection of the hot hatch market was it had a boom in the early into mid 90s, died a death late 90s, then recovered mid 00s and now there's more choice than ever.

A little Googling brought up Autocar's best hot hatch shootout from 2002.



Here's the results from the test. 


What a completely different world we live in now. How bad are some of those cars? Can you ever imagine a diesel getting thrown in between a Focus RS, A45 AMG, Audi RS3....

Just checking out Autotrader for some of those cars. There's hardly any of them for sale. How many left shows there isn't many of them left, or ever sold.

There's 2 Fiat Stilo Abarths. Here's a 55 plate Schumacher edition for less than £1000. That seems like good value actually. I thought the name alone might have helped a bit more.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201605013526851

The MG ZS 180. I had forgotten about them. It must have been later they added the big body kit? It's not a hatch either.

There's a few on Autotrader and most of them are under £1000.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201603312487059

The Corolla T Sport was rare. The supercharged versions was really rare. The earliest supercharged version I see is 2005. Here's a normal 189bhp T Sport.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201604213208716

The Astra SRI turbo was a limited edition of 500 cars to test the market before the GSI came out. I can't see any SRI Turbo for sale.

Here's a GSI. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201605023552573

My old GSI is still going. It had over 105,000 miles when I sold it in 2008. It went upto 160,000 before developing one of those backwards counting clocks. 

I think that has aged much better than most cars of the early 00s. I still have a soft spot for them.

What other interesting or cringeworthy hot hatches do you remember?


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## Jam* (Apr 24, 2016)

I Will always have a soft sport for Mk1 Golf GTI


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

MG Maestro turbo - for a while it was the fastest FWD hatch on the market. Had a soft spot for these, as well as its sister the Montego Turbo.


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

This is also worth a watch


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## macca666 (Mar 30, 2010)

Andyg_TSi said:


> MG Maestro turbo - for a while it was the fastest FWD hatch on the market. Had a soft spot for these, as well as its sister the Montego Turbo.


Can't argue with that. I've still got a soft spot as you can see but it's good to see other support.

Though the Maestro is definitely the better :lol::lol:


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## Jam* (Apr 24, 2016)

macca666 said:


> Can't argue with that. I've still got a soft spot as you can see but it's good to see other support.
> 
> Though the Maestro is definitely the better :lol::lol:


Class !!!!!


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## Ben1413 (Jul 1, 2009)

My favourite hot hatch:



Also a big fan of the rover 220 gsi turbo:



Ben


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

Still like the old mk1 fiesta xr2


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## dillinja999 (Aug 26, 2013)

That fiat stilo, another half the price of the car for tax lol plus its sloooow


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

In the 80's, I had a Fiesta 1.3s from work and it was great fun. Yellow with alloys and a black racing stripe!!!!


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## hobbs182 (Jul 10, 2013)

Kerr said:


> The Astra SRI turbo was a limited edition of 500 cars to test the market before the GSI came out. I can't see any SRI Turbo for sale.
> 
> My old GSI is still going. It had over 105,000 miles when I sold it in 2008. It went upto 160,000 before developing one of those backwards counting clocks.
> 
> I think that has aged much better than most cars of the early 00s. I still have a soft spot for them.


I'll happily take 69 points, not a bad number :lol:
granted mines not an sri though but GSI > SRI in my opinion...


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## slim_boy_fat (Jun 23, 2006)

Started my hot hatches with a Mk1 Astra GTE, followed by a MK11 from the same stable. 

Great fun both :driver:


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## Scrabble (Mar 29, 2011)

I had a Lancia HPE Volumex in the late 80's..Quick as feck as long as you avoided puddles due to the lack of any rustproofing...


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## transtek (Mar 2, 2007)

I reckon hot hatches first started in the 80's and not the 90's, with the first Golf GTI, the Fiesta XR2, then the Escort XR3, Peugeot 205 GTI, etc., etc., and that's why they are so popular at the minute as "future classics", as lots of us oldies in their 40's and 50's want a piece of their youth back and so are pushing up prices.


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## stonejedi (Feb 2, 2008)

My R5GTturbo I loved it:argie:,it's the car that got me into turbocharged cars and I have never looked back.SJ.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

stonejedi said:


> My R5GTturbo I loved it:argie:,it's the car that got me into turbocharged cars and I have never looked back.SJ.


Jungle is massive


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## slim_boy_fat (Jun 23, 2006)

This is what my first looked like










and the second, like this but in dark metallic blue with the factory quad headlights


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Astra GTE 16V's.....One of the best engines ever. They were a 140mph car back then and ran 15.1 Qtrs at Santa Pod with ease. Much better engine than the Golf 16v units or any of the Ford N/A units.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

I always thought one of the best was the Intergrale, but the magazines never used to pitch it in because it was priced higher and had 4WD.

Now the average hot hatch has this and they get tested against each other....but the Lancia was brilliant at being a fast hot hatch...shame it was LHD for the big arch ones.

The 306 in most formats was very good.

XS, S16, GTi6 all so good, the suspension was so supple but the chassis like a razor. It suited British roads like nothing else. 

I had a Golf MK2 GTi but it felt wooden next to the 306. I then had a brand new e36 compact ti, which in theory had everything in the right place....rwd, good engine, good chassis but it was like stepping from a pair of driving shoes into a pair of snowboots....no feel whatsoever compared to the pug.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

robertdon777 said:


> Astra GTE 16V's.....One of the best engines ever. They were a 140mph car back then and ran 15.1 Qtrs at Santa Pod with ease. Much better engine than the Golf 16v units or any of the Ford N/A units.


They were cracking engines. Sadly loads of Astras, Cavaliers and Calibras were broken for the engine to go into the Novas and Corsas.

Same with the C20LET. A lot of nice of nice cars were lost for them.

Just thinking back to the early 00s, it was the Citroen Saxo that was the big seller. There was absolutely tons of VTRs, but less of the 120bhp VTS models. They used to have to give a year's free insurance to sell them too.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

I have been lucky enough to own quite a few hot hatches in my time including a Mk1 Golf GTI, 205 1.9 GTI Peugeot, Renault Clio Williams (No. 399 of the original 400 Series 1 cars built), 306 GTI Peugeot, supercharged R53 Mini Cooper S, Mini Cooper S JCW GP and finally a MkV Golf R32. (GP and R32 photos are in my Gallery).

The majority of these cars were bought new (giving my age away now! :lol including the Mk1 GTI Golf that was a personal import and collected from Germany in February 1982. It was a Mars Red 1600cc model and was probably the car I have had the most fun driving although the Clio Williams comes a very close second. I enjoyed many a spirited drive in these cars on quiet country roads where I faded the brakes regularly on the Golf and wore out the tyres also in only 5000 miles! :doublesho

The 80’s and 90’s were the golden years of the hot hatch, in my opinion, where drivetrains were simple, feedback was in abundance, power outputs were modest and yet driving enjoyment was sky high. I feel privileged to have enjoyed those years in some great cars. :thumb:

I’m still driving a hot hatch today although, as Jeremy Clarkson once put it, it’s a Gti in drag, aka a TT! :lol:

Alan W

P.S. Would you believe the Mk1 Golf GTI cost me £5000 in 1982 and today costs nearly 6 times that! :doublesho


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## tazzzak (Apr 30, 2016)

I still have my mark 4 escort series 2 rs turbo and a cavalier turbo (based on the gsi) but has 4x4 and six speed box not many about now. I have had it for nearly 20 years


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Andyg_TSi said:


> MG Maestro turbo - for a while it was the fastest FWD hatch on the market. Had a soft spot for these, as well as its sister the Montego Turbo.


Yeah because all the press cars ran silly boosts and promptly blew up shortly after they came off the launch event :lol:


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## mitsi boy (Jan 26, 2013)

I remember coming up against the Maestro turbo in my 205 1.9gti . I was a young pup (17 and lucky to have such a car) and thought the Maestro looked like a piece of crap. As you can imagine it promptly whipped me !!! My next car was Rover 220t cope tomcat !! The old M series in the maestro and then the T series in the coupe were dinosaurs by today's standards but they were bloody fast back in the day. I just wish I'd had a camera phone back then as I don't have any pics of either of them. 
Since the hatch days I've had a number of super quick saloons and avants (RS6 RS4 V10 M5 etc) and now I'm back in a hatch as the kids are a bit bigger and don't come out as often. I now have an A45 AMG and it's bloody good, but it's not as seat of your pants as the old one nine. 

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

I guess for me it's all about the Clio 172s. I'd had two 1.2 Clios until I hit 21 and opted for a brand new 172. It was just a perfect little car. Quick enough to be fun, not so quick I did anything silly and with leather seats, climate control it just did a bit of everything. Great little cars.


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## Ecce (Mar 29, 2011)

Jam* said:


> I Will always have a soft sport for Mk1 Golf GTI


Didn't have the money way back when but did own a MK1 Golf Driver in Lhasa green - not as 'hot' but a cool drive


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

I've owned, in order , 106 gti, puma 1.7, focus 1.8 zetec (not hot but a good chassis, engine, gearbox combination). Astra gsi turbo, twingo 133, and now my fn2 ctr. 
How things have moved on. To be fair a lot of the older stuff now seems a little incomplete IMO, the modern stuff has issues with weight, but just making a car light, alone doesn't make a great car. The old stuff has issues with bodyroll, suspension design, some of it was a bit bland. Plus once you were up to 60 mph or so you might get your ass handed to you by an average Mondeo or cavalier. The old stuff was like a bag of chips, the new stuff is a three course dinner. Not saying what's better or worse, just think its easy to have rose tinted glasses imo


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Can't beat a bag of chips when you're in the mood though lol.


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## wd40 (Jun 20, 2007)

Been lucky enough to own quite a few over the years 
Nova SR, Nova SRI, Escort Series 1 RS Turbo x 2, Escort Series 2 RS Turbo
Cavalier SRI, Cavalier GSI, Escort RS1600i, Mk2 Escort x 3, Sierra Cossie x 3, Escort Cossie x 2, BMW M3 x 2. Evo7 and a Scooby. That's just off the top of my head :lol:
Was also an active member of the RSOC for 15 yrs. 

Out of all them I wish I still had my MK2 Escort (Sold it 5 years ago:wall

To me all of the above that I`ve owned plus some of the other marques mentioned in this thread are the true hot hatches (Excluding the cossies, cavvies, evo scoob and m3`s) 
But certainly the escorts and of course ahem... the novas lol. 
Always liked the mk1 golf gti`s too but never owned one. 

Theres nothing wrong with todays breed of them as such but to me personally I just prefer the older vehicles :thumb:


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## rob267 (Nov 27, 2015)

Had a few myself. Cavalier sri16v, xr2i x2. Xr3i x2 fiesta rs turbo and escort rs turbo. Managed to have a pug gti 1.9 as well. 

Had a escort gti but that was so slow it was a joke and a insult all in one. 
Got a seat cupra r now and it is quicker and more refined but i feel less involving to drive than most of my previous hot hatches, to much computers controlling stuff now i think.
I long for the feel of non power steering when going for it, traction control is always switched off as well. Dont need it. Maybe rose tinted i guess but i am not so sure.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## griffin1907 (Mar 4, 2006)

Astra MK2 Champion gets close to the top of my wish list


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

Could have been an interesting prospect


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

The first five minutes of this is quiet interesting


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

The_Bouncer said:


> Could have been an interesting prospect


The C Class Coupe or CLC (badged later) was a similar car which is forgotten when people talk about hot hatches.

But they can be found with some good engines, rwd drive too. But not a sharp drive.

CLC 350: 272bhp under 6.5 to 60 and 155mph.
CLC 320cdi: 224bhp diesel (I think German only though)

Both available around the early to late 00's.


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## helicopter pat (Jul 5, 2014)

Had a MK2 Astra GTE 1.8, then the 16V GTE which was a fantastic car. When I then got a Calibra Turbo in 92 I passef the GTE to my father who in his 60's had great fun showing the boy racers up when they tried to show off and could not believe an old boy was able to drive like that.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Just thinking back, it was the late 90s that there was a big market for Japanese imports. It did bring in some nice cars, but most were heaps of junk. 

Most of them were supposed to have a full service history(unreadable in Japanese) and ultra low mileage. Somehow they usually had holes in the seats and carpets, with the steering wheels and gearknobs with little leather left too.

Silly bodykits, loads of gauges and 3 spoke alloys were all common. 

Then it later turned out a huge proportion of all the grey imports had actually been stolen.


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## nicks16v (Jan 7, 2009)

robertdon777 said:


> The C Class Coupe or CLC (badged later) was a similar car which is forgotten when people talk about hot hatches.
> 
> But they can be found with some good engines, rwd drive too. But not a sharp drive.
> 
> ...


No way, is that actually a production merc?


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Looking through Autotrader, I see the Japanese imports are coming through again.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201511018332561

What about a "Top Grade totally standard immaculate car that has never been messed with?"

Just read the failed MOT.

1916 Reason(s) for failure
nearside rear Brake pipe excessively corroded (3.6.B.2c)
offside rear Brake pipe excessively corroded (3.6.B.2c)
nearside front Brake pipe excessively corroded to rear (3.6.B.2c)
offside rear upper Suspension arm corroded and seriously weakened (2.4.G.1)
nearside Vehicle structure has excessive corrosion, seriously affecting its strength within 30cm of the body mountings sill (6.1.B.2)
offside Vehicle structure has excessive corrosion, seriously affecting its strength within 30cm of the body mountings sill (6.1.B.2)
offside inner Vehicle structure has excessive corrosion, seriously affecting its strength within 30cm of the body mountings sill (6.1.B.2)
nearside inner Vehicle structure has excessive corrosion, seriously affecting its strength within 30cm of the body mountings sill (6.1.B.2)
Advisory notice item(s)
offside front Brake pipe slightly corroded to rear (3.6.B.2c)
nearside rear Tyre worn close to the legal limit (4.1.E.1)
offside rear Tyre worn close to the legal limit (4.1.E.1)

Sounds like a proper rust bucket.

I'm sure the dealer will roll out that cars don't corrode in Japan. This is all so familiar.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

you know what I'm gonna add..............


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## Clarkey-88 (Apr 29, 2014)

Kerr said:


> Looking through Autotrader, I see the Japanese imports are coming through again.
> 
> http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201511018332561
> 
> ...


Wow! that is absolutely shocking. The sad thing is that someone will buy that and genuinely believe it's one of the best around . There's some right dodgey people out there. Second hand car dealers are the worst, as 9/10 they know sweet FA about the car they are selling and tell you nothing but BS.

It's funny you mentioned about checking the MOT history online. I remembered that you could do that and last week I was checking out all of my mates & families cars (current & sold) that I know the registrations of lol


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

My mate had a tuned up Lotus Sunbeam in the 80s, he used to slaughter GTIs in it. Could spin the wheels in all gears with 4 up in the car. Awesome machine.

Another from the 70s was the Chevette HS/HSR, replacing a 1.2 engine with 2.3 and rally homologation.


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## Jam* (Apr 24, 2016)

1987 Fiat Strada Ritmo Abarth 130TC










Mk1 XR2










Nova GTE & GSI



















http://http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?
attachmentid=46679&stc=1&d=1462781918


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

nicks16v said:


> No way, is that actually a production merc?


Not the Pictures but the later version was the C Class Coupe/ CLC


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

I remember the HS and HSR very well and the sunbeam Lotus.


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## John74 (Mar 12, 2007)

bidderman1969 said:


> you know what I'm gonna add..............


Phase 2 16v 3 door was my first hot hatch , loved it . Tried looking for one a short while ago and couldn't find anything that didn't belong in a scrap yard sadly.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

Not a hatch, but these were also Uber cool at the time & you'd be a lucky sod if you had one now


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## transtek (Mar 2, 2007)

Shiny said:


> My mate had a tuned up Lotus Sunbeam in the 80s, he used to slaughter GTIs in it. Could spin the wheels in all gears with 4 up in the car. Awesome machine.
> 
> Another from the 70s was the Chevette HS/HSR, replacing a 1.2 engine with 2.3 and rally homologation.


Now they were the first real HOT hatches ever made, before the GTI and even RWD. I remember seeing both on the local rally stages when I was in my teens. Very collectable now as well:thumb:


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## st1965 (Apr 21, 2016)

This was my RS turbo escort...loved that car


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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

Anyone remember the metro GTi? 

I had one and loved it, 103bhp from a light revvy 1.4 16v k-series, 850kg, the most comfortable seats I've ever sat in, a proper little gokart for the road.

Still have it infact, some 15 years later although now far from standard and with a fairly modified 1.8.


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## Negaultra7 (Mar 8, 2016)

This is what i had in the early 90's. Loved it

Peugeot 1.6 GTI

Sorry about the rubbish picture quality, i blame the 90's cameras haha


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## wd40 (Jun 20, 2007)

This was my "oldskool" one  Wished I still had it ! :wall:



Engine bay when I got it


After I was finished with it !


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

^^
Wow.

All that needs to be said really :thumb:


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## gatecrasher3 (Jul 21, 2006)

slim_boy_fat said:


> This is what my first looked like
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now you're talking. I've had two MK1 GTE's a MK2 1.8 8v and a MK2 16v GTE.

To this day my first red MK1 is my favourite car out of all that I've had.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

I loved the shape and look of the Mk1 Astra, although I reckon the GTE would have looked so much cooler if they used the boot from the 1.2 E with the smaller rear window.


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## TonyHill (Jul 28, 2015)

wd40 said:


> This was my "oldskool" one  Wished I still had it ! :wall:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bet you do........they're going for over £30k now :doublesho


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

My old and new quick
Snap.
















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jam* (Apr 24, 2016)

wd40 said:


> This was my "oldskool" one  Wished I still had it ! :wall:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Class !!!!


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## donfresh (Feb 23, 2016)

surprised these little beasts haven't had a mention yet


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

donfresh said:


> surprised these little beasts haven't had a mention yet


I mentioned the Clio Williams in Post 21  and here was mine below. 

Alan W


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

Had a poster of a Williams on my wall I think growing up, gorgeous cars


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## transtek (Mar 2, 2007)

turbosnoop said:


> Had a poster of a Williams on my wall I think growing up, gorgeous cars


Which one, Venus or Serena?:wave:


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

Oh none of those mingers lol


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## s70rjw (Apr 18, 2006)

My list of 80s /90s hot hatches
XR3i
Mk 1 GTI in Mars red
mk1 GTI Campaign in Helios blue metallic
Peugeot 309 GTI
Astra GTE
Escort RS Cosworth
The one I miss a little is the Campaign GTI. 
That 5th gear clip puts things into perspective though....


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## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

Kerr said:


> The MG ZS 180. I had forgotten about them. It must have been later they added the big body kit? It's not a hatch either.
> 
> There's a few on Autotrader and most of them are under £1000.


The ZS 180 was available as either a 4 door booted saloon or a 5 door hatchback. Big body kit was introduced on the facelift in 2004.

A lot of the reason for the low selling prices is the cost of cam belt changes on the 180 - garages will want anywhere from £500 to £800 for doing the 3 belts on the KV6, and when the change comes due, a lot of owners don't want to afford the cost so try to sell them on. Likewise, the buyers don't want to spend that much on a newly acquired car, so only want to pay peanuts for them. A shame because the ZS 180 was by far the best performing and best handling of all the MG Rover Zed cars, and can put a good many supposedly better makes of performance cars on the back foot - the right one represents a lot of car and a lot of fun for the money.



transtek said:


> I reckon hot hatches first started in the 80's and not the 90's, with the first Golf GTI, the Fiesta XR2, then the Escort XR3, Peugeot 205 GTI, etc., etc., and that's why they are so popular at the minute as "future classics", as lots of us oldies in their 40's and 50's want a piece of their youth back and so are pushing up prices.


Think you are probably right - Golf Gti was launched in 1976 and that got the ball rolling with several other notable hot hatches launched in the early 1980s.

The ones that stand out for me are the Golf Gti, Fiesta XR2i and the Peugeot 205 1.9 GTi.


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

No one has yet mentioned the Escort RS1600i ( think that was it ?).



Mate of mine had one and it was fairly mental to go in.



I also reckon the group B rally cars were responsible for influencing the first wave of serious high power hot hatches ?


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## wd40 (Jun 20, 2007)

GleemSpray said:


> No one has yet mentioned the Escort RS1600i ( think that was it ?).
> 
> Mate of mine had one and it was fairly mental to go in.
> 
> I also reckon the group B rally cars were responsible for influencing the first wave of serious high power hot hatches ?


Had a sunburst red one and it was good fun and handled really well I preferred the series 1 RS turbo.


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## JMorty (Apr 25, 2011)

bidderman1969 said:


> you know what I'm gonna add..............


Gotta love a valver! Very cool car!



robertdon777 said:


> Can't beat a bag of chips when you're in the mood though lol.


Totally...to be fair I'd have great chips over a generic three course meal all day long.

I am of course talking about cars here 

The only problem is I don't have the time to get a old car up to spec and ready for daily driving. If I could, I would have a Williams all day long.



nick_mcuk said:


> My old and new quick snap.


Love this, two very cool cars there.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Some interesting finds on Autotrader.

£82,000 for a Renault 5

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201603222219818

£50,000 for a Lancia Delta

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201604213198314

A Sierra Cosworth

Saw this car on Auto Trader's Android App. Thought you might be interested. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201603111872955

£40k for a Dimma kitted Pug 205GT?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201604092808577

£38k for a Clio V6? 
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201604253331228

Escort RS2000 for £30k? It's got one obvious serious problem.......
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201605013529982

Is a Clio Cup really a classic and worth £15.5k?
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201602221279556

There's quite a few interesting cars out there, but some hugely hopeful prices.


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## autograph (May 12, 2016)

Andyg_TSi said:


> MG Maestro turbo - for a while it was the fastest FWD hatch on the market. Had a soft spot for these, as well as its sister the Montego Turbo.


Same 0-60 time as a stock escort cosworth too if you could lay the power down lol


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Kerr said:


> Escort RS2000 for £30k? It's got one obvious serious problem.......
> http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201605013529982


Good grief that's hideous. Why couldn't they have gone to the bother of picking a good colour.

Cooks

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk


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## Jam* (Apr 24, 2016)

https://www.gumtree.com/p/ford/mk1-ford-escort.for-sale-may-swap-why/1167344529

Nice little project


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

£20,000 for a Pug 205GTI?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201603131919889

They say totally original and in sought after Miami Blue. The MOT history says the car should be grey.

Are they too lazy to replace simple bits of trim if they expect so much?

£15,000 for a Golf R32? When did they become valuable? People were avoiding them not so long ago.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201601069855873

Not sure this MK1 Golf GTI fits the concours description, but it looks good and needs some parts to put right.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201505083294265

A Clio Williams 3. 
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201605153960458


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

The Honda Civic Type R was one of my favorites at the time, still is really.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Soul boy 68 said:


> The Honda Civic Type R was one of my favorites at the time, still is really.
> 
> View attachment 46841


£10k for this.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201604293472946


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## gatecrasher3 (Jul 21, 2006)

Kerr said:


> £10k for this.
> 
> http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201604293472946


Thats crazy money. The EK9 is iconic don't get me wrong but it's vastly overpriced considering what you get for money with the later Civic Type R's.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

gatecrasher3 said:


> Thats crazy money. The EK9 is iconic don't get me wrong but it's vastly overpriced considering what you get for money with the later Civic Type R's.


The one thing hits me looking through the classifieds is far too many cars are silly money.

On one side of the fence we keep hearing stories about debt spiraling out of control, then on the other side there's enough of a market to see the classic car marker absolutely booming with huge valuations.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Was having a wee flick about on Autotrader and found this.. Quite cool but a wee bit dear I reckon.










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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Cookies said:


> Was having a wee flick about on Autotrader and found this.. Quite cool but a wee bit dear I reckon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A bit dear would be an understatement!

Those escorts were complete crap and do not warrant the hot hatch label. Had one for 3 months then sold it was just like a normal one with different trim to make it feel sporty


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

I liked the fact that it was a 4x4. Although I agree that the newer escorts were absolutely no match for early mk 1,2 & 3 RS incarnations. It felt like it was being done on the cheap. Even the xr3 was too bland. 

Cooks

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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

By the time they'd done the second facelift they were supposed to be not too bad weren't they?

Still, wouldn't even pay £500 for it though...


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## Clarkey-88 (Apr 29, 2014)

My favourite Hot Hatch from the 00's is the Mk1 Focus Rs. A bloke who lived near me had a brand new one back when they had just come out. I used to see it regularly and I'd always watch it go past with amazement lol (I was only 13). Tbf it did look pretty bonkers back then, and it's still quite a looker, even today. From the day I first saw it, it became my dream car, and in 2012 I was able to go out and buy one

I'd only had it a couple of days here, gave it it's first wash and polish. This was wayyy before I'd discovered DW. As far as I knew, just a coat of SRP was the best you could get lol




By looking at the prices some people are asking for them now, I bought it just at the right time. I paid £7800 for it with 42,000 miles, Full service history and was in immaculate condition, inside and out.

Here's one for sale with similar mileage to what mine had when I bought it, the prices have risen so fast!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201605204150785?page=2&model

I'd never get that sort of money for mine, as it's got 110k on it now . But I didn't buy it to look at, I bought it to enjoy, and man has it been fun  I still really enjoy driving it now


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## Mikej857 (Jan 17, 2012)

Prices of the mk1 are slowly rising, I paid £8k for mine with 90k miles late last year 

I think because they are getting rare prices will continue to rise for decent examples and it'll get to the point where mileage will be low on the list and prices will be based on condition 

It's sad that atm breaking these for parts can net more than selling complete the prices of parts is ridiculous


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

I think the MK1 will start to go one way only and thats up up up. 5 years time good examples will be £30K.


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## wd40 (Jun 20, 2007)

Used to know a guy who has a mk1 stored away with only 900miles on the clock!!

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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Mikej857 said:


> Prices of the mk1 are slowly rising, I paid £8k for mine with 90k miles late last year
> 
> I think because they are getting rare prices will continue to rise for decent examples and it'll get to the point where mileage will be low on the list and prices will be based on condition
> 
> It's sad that atm breaking these for parts can net more than selling complete the prices of parts is ridiculous


This upsets me a little about my Accord Type R. How many left shows Q4 2015 as 749 registered in the UK and 274 Sorn. There are a handful in Europe and that's the lot. Yet values remain pretty static with the best examples hovvering around £3.5k at best.

Sadly as a result people are breaking them left right and centre as they get more for parts than they do for a whole car. Numbers continue to diminish yet the values still haven't shot up.

I'm still going to hold onto mine, not in the hope of the value rising, but purely because i love it.


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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

They're still a bit too new to be a classic imho. It takes the breaking value to be more than the complete value to cause a rapid reduction in numbers which increases rarity and makes values rise. It's a sad point, but all cars go through it. It means now is probably a good time to search out and buy a good one to keep for a few years.

Just 5 years ago the classified ads on places like pistonheads were full of e36 m3s for £3k, these days there's rarely more than a handful for sale and you'll need £7k for a decent one, and they're the least loved m3 so far. I'd guess over 2-3 years the number on the road halved.


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## Mikej857 (Jan 17, 2012)

Harry_p said:


> They're still a bit too new to be a classic imho. It takes the breaking value to be more than the complete value to cause a rapid reduction in numbers which increases rarity and makes values rise. It's a sad point, but all cars go through it. It means now is probably a good time to search out and buy a good one to keep for a few years.
> 
> Just 5 years ago the classified ads on places like pistonheads were full of e36 m3s for £3k, these days there's rarely more than a handful for sale and you'll need £7k for a decent one, and they're the least loved m3 so far. I'd guess over 2-3 years the number on the road halved.


That's the current market for the RS with cars being broken for a lot more than they are worth complete

Your seeing prices of £300+ for the front grill and a gear knob going for £100+ and the front wheel arch liners commanding £350+ if you can actually find a set, the list is endless as every part is rare now as you can no longer get them from fords


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

Shiny said:


> This upsets me a little about my Accord Type R. How many left shows Q4 2015 as 749 registered in the UK and 274 Sorn. There are a handful in Europe and that's the lot. Yet values remain pretty static with the best examples hovvering around £3.5k at best.
> 
> Sadly as a result people are breaking them left right and centre as they get more for parts than they do for a whole car. Numbers continue to diminish yet the values still haven't shot up.
> 
> I'm still going to hold onto mine, not in the hope of the value rising, but purely because i love it.


Sometimes I don't understand used car values, and I agree the atr values are surprisingly low for what is a well reviewed car, and now, quite rare. I haven't seen one on the roads for years.
Another thing I'll never really understand 100%, is how the values of escort cosworths are so high, 25k to 32k or so. Yet the values of cars like the celica gt4 just seemed to drop. Although a quick search sees they are now about 6k, still just a fraction of an escort cosworth.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

turbosnoop said:


> Sometimes I don't understand used car values, and I agree the atr values are surprisingly low for what is a well reviewed car, and now, quite rare. I haven't seen one on the roads for years.
> Another thing I'll never really understand 100%, is how the values of escort cosworths are so high, 25k to 32k or so. Yet the values of cars like the celica gt4 just seemed to drop. Although a quick search sees they are now about 6k, still just a fraction of an escort cosworth.


It's mad. There are over 2500 Ford Capris registered in the UK but only 1000 ATRs, which puts it into perspective. Its not a car you can import from Japan or Malaysia, Australia etc either, as it was built for the UK market with a handful of LHD versions for the EU market. I guess it doesn't help that many people don't even know it ever existed, even Honda dealers sometimes! lol.

It's good to see proper old school Japanese cars becoming very sought after and more and more classics from the 70's and early 80's appearing at shows, although the price of the 240Z needs to come down so i can have one sat in my garage 

Some of the Jap cars are increasing like mad, take the NSX and Supra, you need big money now to buy a decent one. The NSX has gone from circa £15k a few years back to now £30k+, and Supras, which could be picked up for a handful of k's not that long ago are now £10k+ for good ones.

Here's a couple of examples from Japfest this year -


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

My very first car was a Capri 2.0S and I loved that car.



Wouldn't want any sort of Cosworth, because I remember how easily the Sierra, Saphire and Escort would rust back then.Terrible bodywork.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

£12,000 for a rusty Nova GTE?

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifi...-6-gte-3dr-one-owner-42-000-miles/5671059?v=c

Here's one with a 2.0 XE conversation for £10,000..

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifi...-gsi-2-0l-16v-redtop--silk-violet/5671525?v=c


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## CLS500Benz (Jul 28, 2013)

Kerr said:


> £12,000 for a rusty Nova GTE?
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/classifi...-6-gte-3dr-one-owner-42-000-miles/5671059?v=c
> 
> ...


Looks familiar that bottom Nova, Pretty sure I've seen it in the Total Vauxhall magazine, Before they changed the name.


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## Crafty (Aug 4, 2007)

I saw a Car SOS episode the other day, they did a Mk1 astra gte in black. I'm not totally convinced on what they do on the show but it looked stunning in the unveiling.


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

Crafty said:


> I saw a Car SOS episode the other day, they did a Mk1 astra gte in black. I'm not totally convinced on what they do on the show but it looked stunning in the unveiling.


I recorded that and watched it tonight Crafty. :thumb:
You're right it looked amazing at the unveil.

My brother had a MkII GTE in white.
It was fast but the steering was heavy as hell at low speed.
We're pampered with power steering nowadays - #notcomplaining


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## gatecrasher3 (Jul 21, 2006)

Crafty said:


> I saw a Car SOS episode the other day, they did a Mk1 astra gte in black. I'm not totally convinced on what they do on the show but it looked stunning in the unveiling.


I watched that episode and the end result was stunning. I just wish they had gone to the trouble of putting the matt black vinyl round the rear screen and top edge of the boot lid to make it truly original.

Made me want another MK1 GTE though.


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## Crafty (Aug 4, 2007)

Yeah the missing black surround was odd, it'd be easy to cut out of vinyl wouldn't it ? 

Printing the wheel centres was a good idea though.


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