# Everyone bringing out a New Range???



## rich1880 (May 26, 2010)

I've noticed recently that there has been a sudden influx o people (valeters) coming up with their own range of products and many of them feeling that they are able to charge sky high prices. I emailed one the other day to ask for some details on their 'New' product which when they apply it will last for years not weeks !!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

What's your point caller?!?!?


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

rich1880 said:


> I've noticed recently that there has been a sudden influx o people (valeters) coming up with their own range of products and many of them feeling that they are able to charge sky high prices. *I emailed one the other day to ask for some details on their 'New' product which when they apply it will last for years not weeks !![/*QUOTE]
> 
> Is that not a good thing?


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## PrestigeChris (Nov 17, 2009)

Surely the people that are doing the work day to day are the best people to bring products out? Theres no point in having someone sat in an office making them?
They will know the pros and cons of products and try and develop there own better version taking the plus points from the products they are using day in day out. Fair enough theres a lot of products coming out but from what ive tried from the newbies to the market ive been impressed with? 

Auto Finesse are knocking out some great stuff as well as Concours Car Care.

Ive got a few of there bits and have to say im impressed. There new sealant is pretty special and the tyre dressing is great.


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Plus, along with others on here who have invested large sums of money and time. 

I chose to invest a hell of a lot of time and money into what we're doing and I could have easily bought my dream car and a nice house but we decided to invest it in something we love doing.

No harm there


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## SarahAnn (Apr 6, 2011)

I was going to say something similar PrestigeChris.

Who better to bring something out who is using the products every day. If you are using a product and think, mmm, i could make something better than this, good luck to them, that's what i say.

It sounds like Concours nearly had to sell his body to fund it so good luck to him :thumb:

Cueball's comment makes me smile


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## MarkSmith (Dec 17, 2010)

rich1880 said:


> *I've noticed recently that there has been a sudden influx o people (valeters) coming up with their own range of products *and many of them feeling that they are able to charge sky high prices. I emailed one the other day to ask for some details on their 'New' product which when they apply it will last for years not weeks !!


And I wish all the very best to everyone of them :thumb:

Anyone who produces their own stuff and then sells them to happy customers are TOP PEOPLE and I hope they all get the praise they deserve


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## rich1880 (May 26, 2010)

My point is not saying that it is a bad thing, my original post does not say that!! 

My point is that the market is almost awash with loads of new brands of goods, there has always been new ranges coming onto the market but there just seems to be loads jumping on the bandwagon reecently. Whilst there are a few who are bringing out quite obviously new products which is fantastic I cant help but think others just re-bottle. I bought some recently, I wont mention the product but it came with no safety warnings etc, it was an alloy cleaner which was Alkaline, I questioned this with the company and was told its not harmfull as it doesnt contain acid !!! Scary!!


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

I got ya

Soz


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## rich1880 (May 26, 2010)

The post isnt aimed at those who are pushing the boundaries like Concourse and Auto Finesse, I really wish them the very best and will without a doubt give them a go!!


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## PrestigeChris (Nov 17, 2009)

i agree theres a lot of people who are re branding etc which can be dangerous if stuff isnt labelled properly msds and health and safety info but as far as im aware the guys at auto finesse and concours car car are dealing with there own manufacturers and "chemists"


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

rich1880 said:


> My point is not saying that it is a bad thing, my original post does not say that!!
> 
> My point is that the market is almost awash with loads of new brands of goods, there has always been new ranges coming onto the market but there just seems to be loads jumping on the bandwagon reecently. Whilst there are a few who are bringing out quite obviously new products which is fantastic I cant help but think others just re-bottle. I bought some recently, I wont mention the product but it came with no safety warnings etc, it was an alloy cleaner which was Alkaline, I questioned this with the company and was told its not harmfull as it doesnt contain acid !!! Scary!!


Yes I agree and see your point

We spent a lot of time sorting the new bottles for when we got on DW.

I have purchased products in the past where people think its easy money to go buy AS stuff and put it into a bottle with a new name and flog it.

Dangerous game for them to play


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## SarahAnn (Apr 6, 2011)

Concours CC said:


> Yes I agree and see your point
> 
> We spent a lot of time sorting the new bottles for when we got on DW.
> 
> ...


ooo i say. I didnt realise that people actually did that. I had heard gossip about it but didnt realise people were doing it. Naughty.


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Not anyone on here Sarah

1 man band in the midlands


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

I wouldnt say its awash with new products, its now a veriety to choose from, that can only be a good thing!?! As for valeters/detailers making their own brand, as mentioned who best to do this ??? But its a natural progression within this industry for people with ambition....valeting then detailing, then product range. Its not something i would be looking to do.....there is a lot of investment, and hats off to the guys who have taken the risk.


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## rich1880 (May 26, 2010)

I dont think a valeter is best positioned to bring out new products. I believe valeters alongside chemists are best positioned. 

If i liked Turtle Wax as a valeter and then bottled it up in my own name with my own labels, I didnt have the MSD details etc an didnt put wanings on and then my son drank some, I immediately go to the hospital and show them the bottle which doesnt give the relevant safety details, what then!!

I also dont agree thats its more variety, its a greater variety of labels not products!!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

rich1880 said:


> My point is not saying that it is a bad thing, my original post does not say that!!
> 
> My point is that the market is almost awash with loads of new brands of goods, there has always been new ranges coming onto the market but there just seems to be loads jumping on the bandwagon reecently. Whilst there are a few who are bringing out quite obviously new products which is fantastic I cant help but think others just re-bottle. I bought some recently, I wont mention the product but it came with no safety warnings etc, it was an alloy cleaner which was Alkaline, I questioned this with the company and was told its not harmfull as it doesnt contain acid !!! Scary!!


Yeah I agree, there does seem to be a few people bringing out their own range...

If it's only a rebottle job, then it's not really worth their while, or worth anyone buying the stuff... but I think there are a few people who are trying new things....

:thumb:

oh, be sure to look out for my new Cueball range of cleaning products...coming out in time for xmas...watch this space!  :lol:


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## rich1880 (May 26, 2010)

Put me down for some Cueball shampoo please


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Logical progression imo. If youve worked in this sector for 10 years + then I would agree its a logical step. 10 years + gives an indication of what works, what doesnt, how it works best in what ambience etc. Taking such a step into a whole product line after being in the trade 1-2 years is a brave move as you wont know enough about the trade let alone what works and so on ( Personal opinion only of course )
Many use the same manufacturers and all is but a little tweek, scent change or colour change then re-named.

I see and have tried a good array of lower end, higher end and middle range products and tbh, some old tech is the best. Some of the new bread products such as AF rejuvenate are stella yet there are some that really let the side down and are just relabelled products with the price doubled.

I say good luck to the one's stepping up to the plate and using there own work ethics and know how to create the idea for the chemist to create the end product. The re-branded good's are just quick money spinners and always will be. Sadly, 'tis all about the BS baffling brains a lot of the time.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

rich1880 said:


> Put me down for some Cueball shampoo please


aslong as its not hair shampoo... that'd be an empty bottle eh cuey :lol:



SarahAnn said:


> It sounds like Concours *nearly* had to sell his body to fund it so good luck to him :thumb:


who said he didn't? :lol:


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

I heard people were buying up Iron X and selling it on E-bay as "Ass smell" for £6 a pop! :doublesho:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Liquid-As...91?pt=UK_Toys_Games_Games&hash=item3f0dd65673

I Joke. :thumb:


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

I would just offer this as an official standpoint from DW's perspective: Although we've obviously got no influence or control of what anyone wants to develop and sell outside of these walls, we have a finite number of traders and manufacturers we would have advertising on the site at any one time. There has been a popular misconception for some time that we metamorphosised into 'Retailing World' a while ago when detailing started to become popular, and would snap the hands off anyone who waived a chequebook in our direction.

Whilst that's a quirky little play on words, and harmlessly amusing, it is, of course, utter nonsense. I personally have several trade enquiries come in to me most weeks, as does Whizzer, and I dare the other admins as well. Do all these develop into new traders or manufacturers? No, of course not - that the forum isn't half a mile long with all them speaks for itself. We _could_ say yes to each one, quite easily; bank the money and let the ensuing battle for custom take on epic proportions.

No, when we have the _'right'_ proposal tabled to us that we think the detailing community on here will benefit from, and _if_ there's a slot available, then we'll look at it.

I just wanted to clarify that what might _seem_ to be an ever growing snowball of new manufacturers, we are keeping control of that situation - at least on here where we can.

Thanks


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

CraigQQ said:


> aslong as its not hair shampoo... that'd be an empty bottle eh cuey :lol:


Yeah, I wouldn't be the best test subject for that range! :lol:

:thumb:


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

VIPER said:


> I would just offer this as an official standpoint from DW's perspective: Although we've obviously got no influence or control of what anyone wants to develop and sell outside of these walls, we have a finite number of traders and manufacturers we would have advertising on the site at any one time. There has been a popular misconception for some time that we metamorphosised into 'Retailing World' a while ago when detailing started to become popular, and would snap the hands off anyone who waived a chequebook in our direction.
> 
> Whilst that's a quirky little play on words, and harmlessly amusing, it is, of course, utter nonsense. I personally have several trade enquiries come in to me most weeks, as does Whizzer, and I dare the other admins as well. Do all these develop into new traders or manufacturers? No, of course not - that the forum isn't half a mile long with all them speaks for itself. We _could_ say yes to each one, quite easily; bank the money and let the ensuing battle for custom take on epic proportions.
> 
> ...


I think that's the main reason I rarely look beyond the traders on here. Of the few i've used, I always get outstanding service and the products always meet the mark.


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## Paddy_R (Jan 10, 2007)

MarkSmith said:


> And I wish all the very best to everyone of them :thumb:
> 
> Anyone who produces their own stuff and then sells them to happy customers are TOP PEOPLE and I hope they all get the praise they deserve


Well said Mark. I wish them all the best in their business ventures and never know the best detailing product ever may just be round the corner from one of them!


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## stuart5760 (Jan 22, 2008)

As people have already stated, I like to see a product that is used by people in the trade, which gives me confidence that it will be good. After viewing a Concours car care review of their tyre dressing, It's exactly what I was after at a competitive price. Needless to say, I've made a purchase.


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## Sirmally2 (Feb 28, 2011)

SarahAnn said:


> It sounds like Concours nearly had to sell his body to fund it so good luck to him :thumb:


He has sold his body... But his soul belongs to me. The Earlthly Devil :devil:

:devil:Muhahaha!:devil:


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

Just my 2p - Some products take an awful lot of R&D + expense to produce what is a final product. The products are constantly changing, lots of new technology in ingredients and packaging. It's not just about decanting a chemistry company produced 25 litre drum into 500ml bottles and calling it something else. i.e rebranding - some do it some don't it's up to the user of the product to buy it or not.

I think if someone devises such a unique thing then they are at liberty to charge what they feel the market price should be.

The world is moving at a fast pace, it's down to all of us to keep up.

:thumb:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

I think new products keep the companies on there toe's to always be thinking of the next big area to save time or better the finish, and this will mean if an improved product gets a bigger share of the market the company that has lost some will try harder to improve product to win back business , win , win situation and we can deiced after use if we think good price if not there will always be another member that likes it better than i did , i see your point re some traders selling poor product.


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## Tazz (Aug 23, 2010)

if it costs so much money to set up yet another brand with research, development, marketing, resourcing, insurance etc, why bother doing it? why not just sell your ideas to a bigger established brand and let them sweat over the chemicals?

like everything nowadays, theres too many of everything, whether it be tyre brands, or baked bean brands, give it a rest already, i own a local car club that since the birth a douzen other clubs have set up, why? just not needed!

obviously everyone is each to their own, im more inclined to buy products from a company that has decades of experience and customer satisfaction, than a company set up last week by a guy who just likes to clean his car of a weekend to get away from his missus (dont we all do this?)

ive learnt on here that alot of people like experimenting, i do to, but some things are left to the established companies 

btw, from what ive seen so far, theres 50 brands out there, no doubt more, whens it going to end? new companies might be coming up with new ideas, but so are the older brands (well a few maybe not, lol)

happy cleaning!


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

rich1880 said:


> I've noticed recently that there has been a sudden influx o people (valeters) coming up with their own range of products and many of them feeling that they are able to charge sky high prices. I emailed one the other day to ask for some details on their 'New' product which when they apply it will last for years not weeks !!


Autofinesse comes to mind. I'm sure they are great, but very expensive for what they are. Too expensive for me to even bother trying out. 

I guess they think charging megabucks will give them perceived prestige. That has to be earned, not brought!


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

Tazz said:


> if it costs so much money to set up yet another brand with research, development, marketing, resourcing, insurance etc, _*why bother doing it? why not just sell your ideas to a bigger established brand and let them sweat over the chemicals?*_
> 
> like everything nowadays, theres too many of everything, whether it be tyre brands, or baked bean brands, give it a rest already, i own a local car club that since the birth a douzen other clubs have set up, why? just not needed!
> 
> ...


So if you invented something that you knew people were interested in, you'd sell it to a bigger company and let them take the credit for something they didn't invent? and does that mean to say you set up the first car club? I doubt it, I'm sure there were alot more well established clubs before yours and I'm sure yours won't be the last. Furthermore, how do you think famous companies such as meguiars, autoglym even apple were made? As I'm sure they weren't here since the beginning of time, they were developed and have turned into the companies we favour today. Suggesting that newer companies should just leave it to the big players is just ridiculous. Do you think Steve Jobs should have just sold his ideas of the Mac to Microsoft simply because they were established first???


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

rich1880 said:


> I dont think a valeter is best positioned to bring out new products. I believe valeters alongside chemists are best positioned.
> 
> If i liked Turtle Wax as a valeter and then bottled it up in my own name with my own labels, I didnt have the MSD details etc an didnt put wanings on and then my son drank some, I immediately go to the hospital and show them the bottle which doesnt give the relevant safety details, what then!!
> 
> I also dont agree thats its more variety, its a greater variety of labels not products!!


They are all going to need updating very soon anyway as the Symbols under CHIP are been replaced with GHS.......

http://www.unece.org/trans/danger/publi/ghs/ghs_welcome_e.html


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Yup

Nicer looking aswell imo

I prefer them - Although they do look like road signs :lol:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

JakeWhite said:


> Do you think Steve Jobs should have just sold his ideas of the Mac to Microsoft simply because they were established first???


He did sell out! :lol:

He just kept one share. He brought Pixar Animation for $10m and sold it to Disney for $7.4bn!!!

He only went back to Apple when Apple brought his neXt compter off him. :thumb:


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

type[r]+ said:


> He did sell out! :lol:
> 
> He just kept one share. He brought Pixar Animation for $10m and sold it to Disney for $7.4bn!!!
> 
> He only went back to Apple when Apple brought his neXt compter off him. :thumb:


Mate without getting too technical,you get the point.


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## rich1880 (May 26, 2010)

Just out of interest Viper, Its great that there are some safeguards for us consumers but what is taken into account when deciding upon if you will allow a new manufacturer onto the site?


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## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

manufacturers themselves do a lot of re-branding to suite the needs of the buyer who then sells it with there own lable on it . maybe a different colour and scent as plenty of similar products do the same job . it happens on a lot of things like food and clothing . if the was a manufacturer for every brand lable there would be a warehouse in every major city . 
i used to work in a garment processing plant many moons ago when clothes came into country with unknown lables on them in which the lables ggot replaced by various well known brands then went into the stores with an overpriced price tag on them . same goes for so many other things out there . 

take the post you get now , have a look at where the stamp used to be , you`ll find more of tnt , dhl letters ect coming through your door , reason for this is because it`s cheaper for them to use the royal mail infastructure that it is to set up on there own . same princable is it not .


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Jaffa cakes

They make a lot of stuff that's relabelled 

In fact lots of big companies do it.


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## trv8 (Dec 30, 2007)

type[r]+ said:


> Autofinesse comes to mind. I'm sure they are great, but very expensive for what they are. Too expensive for me to even bother trying out.
> 
> I guess they think charging megabucks will give them perceived prestige. That has to be earned, not brought!


How can you comment on any of Autofinesse products if you can't be bothered to try them out.

You only have to read the many threads on DW to see that Autofinesse has already gained favourable feedback on their products.
Nothing to do with charging 'megabucks'.


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## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

Concours CC said:


> Jaffa cakes
> 
> They make a lot of stuff that's relabelled
> 
> In fact lots of big companies do it.


how could i have forgotten about jaffa cakes :speechles

i should of finished off with it`s always good to see new products on the market


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

Dont care who make's what or rebrands as long as it's not crap and made out to be better than it is.And I think people tend to think if it's not bought on dw it's no good which is wrong just pinched a 5ltr tub of shampoo of my unlce who as had a 205ltr barrel made to his specifaction and i dare say is much better than autosmarts tackle.And at the end of the day if they can make them selfs some extra cash good luck to them.

And what ever company can make my tank more shiny gets my seal of approval







Owt free I will test


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

dwmc said:


> how could i have forgotten about jaffa cakes :speechles
> 
> i should of finished off with it`s always good to see new products on the market


Dunno why I mentioned them - I hate the orange bit in the middle bit


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

trv8 said:


> How can you comment on any of Autofinesse products if you can't be bothered to try them out.
> 
> You only have to read the many threads on DW to see that Autofinesse has already gained favourable feedback on their products.
> Nothing to do with charging 'megabucks'.


but then, what makes any 'new' shampoo, glass cleaner, wax etc so much better than any previous ones? people fall for the marketing and hype of 'favour of the moment' product(s)


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

.............


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## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

-Kev- said:


> but then, what makes any 'new' shampoo, glass cleaner, wax etc so much better than any previous ones? people fall for the marketing and hype of 'favour of the moment' product(s)


we`ve all fallen for it at one time or another , i`ve got 4 shampoos on the go at the moment :lol:


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## trv8 (Dec 30, 2007)

Concours CC said:


> Jaffa cakes
> 
> They make a lot of stuff that's relabelled
> 
> In fact lots of big companies do it.


Nope. Jaffa Cakes are made by McVitties .

And do you know why McVitties named them Jaffa Cakes and not Jaffa Biscuits?
It's because chocolate covered cakes do not attract the dreaded VAT, but there is VAT on chocolate covered Biscuits :lol:.

Right, I'm off to get me Jaffa's. Full moon, half moon, total eclipse :wave:.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

dwmc said:


> we`ve all fallen for it at one time or another , i`ve got 4 shampoos on the go at the moment :lol:


:lol:

Im currently using this

http://www.diy.com/nav/build/motori...mpid=4&tmad=c&ecamp=cse_go?CAWELAID=793778137

it is Surprisingly good :detailer:


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## silverback (Jun 18, 2008)

i think as the market evolves the amount of people trying to get a slice of a new market will increase.as long as the new boys actually bring something new and the stuff works then its not a problem.my main grudge is when new products from ANYONE are hyped to death and get great buzz and turn out to be average to crap.i was very dissapointed by AF bug and tar remover,which received great reviews,and i know im not the only one to think this.


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Thats what I meant though

My mate who did some scaffolding at Mcvees said he saw pallet loads of smart price and value packets being filled with the same biccies as the mcvees packaging


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

I'm bringing out a new range of speedos soon for the discerning detailer for the warm summer months. Maximium statement minimum price.

Reason for it is simple strategic management, a little horizontal integration, or is it vertical. Hmmm


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## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

insurance is the same (not same a jaffa cakes ) 

halifax insurance is the same company as esure . halifax charge more for the name where as esure give cheaper quotes just to keep customers who shop around for cheaper insurance .


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Concours CC said:


> Thats what I meant though
> 
> My mate who did some scaffolding at Mcvees said he saw pallet loads of smart price and value packets being filled with the same biccies as the mcvees packaging


Oh but they wont be the same recipe :devil:   

Been there seen that packed the boxes Marks and Spencers Pies into Netto boxes at one point....


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## silverback (Jun 18, 2008)

Concours CC said:


> Thats what I meant though
> 
> My mate who did some scaffolding at Mcvees said he saw pallet loads of smart price and value packets being filled with the same biccies as the mcvees packaging


I work for cadburys and whilst it may look like the same sponge,creme and choc going down the belt,the recipe is completely different.


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## PrestigeChris (Nov 17, 2009)

when i was 16 i packed frozen salmon fillets and we used to pack the same fish in Farmfoods, iceland and then marks and spencers finest packaging. It goes on a lot more than people think.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

trv8 said:


> How can you comment on any of Autofinesse products if you can't be bothered to try them out.


I didn't. They are the new kid on the block, and IMO They are too expensive. That was the point of this thread. :tumbleweed:



trv8 said:


> You only have to read the many threads on DW to see that Autofinesse has already gained favourable feedback on their products.
> Nothing to do with charging 'megabucks'.


Same with Wolf's, but they don't charge 'megabucks' and more people know/use their products. They might be onto something! 

Autofinesse was just the first that came to mind. As I said before, I'm sure they are good. Just too expensive for me to even bother trying. If I tried everything new that came out, Id have to sell my Lexus IS F to pay for all the crap.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

-Kev- said:


> but then, what makes any 'new' shampoo, glass cleaner, wax etc so much better than any previous ones? people fall for the marketing and hype of 'favour of the moment' product(s)


This! :thumb:

I'd be broke if I brought all the 'next best thing' products! Many of which die a quick and painful death! :lol:

Last year, Dodo was the 'in' brand. Seems people move on pretty quickly around here.....


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## SarahAnn (Apr 6, 2011)

Just going back to the thread saying 'why bother, leave it to someone else'.

We would be in a sorry state if everyone felt like this. I think its good that people have the drive and determination to try something new *just dont charge too much for it *...........not aimed at anybody


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## trv8 (Dec 30, 2007)

Spoony said:


> I'm bringing out a new range of speedos soon for the discerning detailer for the warm summer months. Maximium statement minimum price.
> 
> Reason for it is simple strategic management, a little horizontal integration, or is it vertical. Hmmm


Hope they are of better quality than the ones I bought for last Summer .
I didn't realise that both of the letters 'S' had fallen off and was walking around the pool with 'PEEDO' written across them .
Had some funny looks all day long :lol:.


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## Big Buffer (Jan 1, 2011)

TBH honest i think it is hard work being up to speed with products anyway.
I love the excitement that surrounds the new products its cool.
As for rebranding your gonna get that sort of stuff from flea bay as its a easy con and people do fall for it.
We have a community here from people who started by washing their cars to becoming detailers using all kinds of products and then, taking a huge step into developing a range for themselves,
I somehow dont think its a cheap process either so prices may be a little high to start but thats why panel pots are small bottles are availiable to try for a small cost.
If you worked really hard you dont want to give it away, however the people making this stuff are depending on us from dw to try and then review as this is a fairly huge community and is a perfect place to start before selling to traders.

I will get round to trying Bouncers 22 and Concours Fear as well when im back in the black after X mas.

Well done to those taking a risk doing what they love


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## SarahAnn (Apr 6, 2011)

silverback said:


> I work for cadburys and whilst it may look like the same sponge,creme and choc going down the belt,the recipe is completely different.


You work where?!?!?! :doublesho:doublesho
You've suddenly become quite gorgeous :argie::argie::lol::lol::lol:


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## stuart5760 (Jan 22, 2008)

-Kev- said:


> but then, what makes any 'new' shampoo, glass cleaner, wax etc so much better than any previous ones? people fall for the marketing and hype of 'favour of the moment' product(s)


Spot on Kev. I use a well know manufacturer due to the fact, it does exactly what it says on the tin and also, is priced exactly for how i need to use the product for. I know I can buy what I want and when I want it. There's no limited stock numbers or marketing hype here, plus having been around the block a few times, it makes me cringe how some people just have to have a limited wax or similar product. Come on!! :lol:


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

type[r]+ said:


> I didn't. They are the new kid on the block, and IMO They are too expensive. That was the point of this thread. :tumbleweed:
> 
> Same with Wolf's, but they don't charge 'megabucks' and more people know/use their products. They might be onto something!
> 
> Autofinesse was just the first that came to mind. As I said before, I'm sure they are good. Just too expensive for me to even bother trying. If I tried everything new that came out, Id have to sell my Lexus IS F to pay for all the crap.


I know where you are coming from and it can get confusing with the amount of new stuff coming out, i usually wait and try and read a few reviews of newer manufacters products(let others spend their hard earned and wait and see), just to set the record straight, i personally think you are missing out, autofinesses stuff is bang on for the money:thumb:


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## Tazz (Aug 23, 2010)

JakeWhite said:


> So if you invented something that you knew people were interested in, you'd sell it to a bigger company and let them take the credit for something they didn't invent? and does that mean to say you set up the first car club? I doubt it, I'm sure there were alot more well established clubs before yours and I'm sure yours won't be the last. Furthermore, how do you think famous companies such as meguiars, autoglym even apple were made? As I'm sure they weren't here since the beginning of time, they were developed and have turned into the companies we favour today. Suggesting that newer companies should just leave it to the big players is just ridiculous. Do you think Steve Jobs should have just sold his ideas of the Mac to Microsoft simply because they were established first???


theres a difference between inventing something new and just creating yet another wax that theres already hundreds on the market anyway, even dodo juice have created 20 and will probably create more, at least with DJ theres no BS and no hidden agenda, were as most companies wont tell you the ingredients, DJ do, to give you piece of mind, but with all due respect, they are another overpriced new company mentioned by someone else

i appreciate established companies had to start somewhere, but back then, there wasnt as many as there is now, and im sure that whatever a new company can come up with, a bigger established company has already come up with it


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## Patrickm (May 27, 2011)

Right where do I start, before I do this isn't aimed at all manufacturers and traders on DW the ones it is should know!

Not every credible manufacturer will supply products to be relabelled by any man and his dog just to make a quick buck.

Just because someone has worked in the car cleaning industry for any length of time doesn't by any means make them an expert on developing any chemical product.

I mean a dental receptionist works in the dental surgery for 5 years and looks after your records so would you trust her to give you surgery? I think not.

I agree it's great to have consumer choice the problem with the way things seem to be going is down the unlawful route which is scary, as profit is put before the Law and Safety.

Not so long ago I had a scary call from a producer who's on DW asking if they could buy from me in bulk and wanted to re-label to which of course I said no. 
I was then asked is it ok to buy from your company in 25L and they will just rebottle and label it anyway, to which I replied no and if you are found to be doing it then you will be prosecuted to which the phone went dead. :doublesho
( I'm not in to naming and shaming but you know who you are and its this kind of behaviour which ruins an industry.)

What I have noticed is many products sold via DW are shipped all over Europe and from what I've seen are not conforming. Now the EC have guide lines for chemicals and the directive should be adhered to by any company who claims to be or calls themselves a manufacturer/distributor by Law. 
The European Chemicals Agency are like fifa of the chemical world across Europe and hold regular conferences in Brussels which our laboratory Director and his management team attend to cover European legislation. I have seen people say on DW this industry is unregulated but in fact it's a lot more stringent than most will realise, *European Chemicals Agency*.

Every Maxolen product produced is officially listed with the ECA and a licence permitted/granted by them under the EC directive, this is not a cheap thing to do but is the Law.

How is it possible we can produce, license, bottle, label and ship products from Switzerland all over the world and still be cheaper than a producer who is relabeling a product from another company 5 mins down the road from where they are based?

What corners do you think have been cut?
I can assure you it certainly won't be down to them testing or their strict quality control or licensing as you probably will find many of them don't know what I'm on about :devil:

When this is being done its not to give you a better quality product or more cost effective product its done to make a quick buck, do you think they are considering the possible dangers when shipping these products incorrectly labelled and in unsuitable containers which are not chemical resistant?

The other problem is under the CHIP regulations *HSE LAW* many don't even understand or know their responsibilities to the end user.

Under *GHS *legislation things are even more stringent so for these companies to conform its going to be even more costly who do you think that is going to effect?

MSDS: regardless as to whether a product is dangerous or not, an MSDS will have been produced at the manufacturing stage and either all the relevant information needs to be provided on the label or a copy of the MSDS needs to be given to the user on their request by LAW.

Detailing world is not a secret club as everyone can see it so these laws are not to be floundered, maybe something for DW admin to look at as I know they want to help their members. :thumb:

Like I said this isn't directed at all who are on DW but the ones who are unsure of their responsibilities need to check via the links provided to keep themselves on the right side of the Law . :thumb:

We are officially listed and work with many world leading brands for a reason and that's because our company has been in business for more than 50 years and we know what we are doing below is just one listing for you to look at.

The Maxolen brand is synonymous with quality and we are officially listed and approved by Porsche Holding Company the biggest and most successful automobile trade company in Europe, who have a multi brand marque under their belt which incorporates Porsche, VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda, Bugatti, Bentley and Lamborghini.

*Here are the details for our listing with Porsche Holding company at their international head office in Austria.*

*Porsche Holding Company *

Click the internet link under auto-Z then click Die Marken to see our listing click on our logo to see the recommendation (you will have to translate this from German in to English).

Their recommendation in German:
Ob Neu- oder Gebrauchtwagenaufbereitung - die hochwertigen Autopflegeprodukte von Maxolen/Pfanner sind für den Profi immer die beste Wahl. Langjährig erprobt und qualitativ hochwertig. Alle Produkte entsprechen selbstverständlich den gesetzlichen Vorschriften.
Damit verhelfen Sie jedem Fahrzeug zum Strahlen.

Their recommendation translated into English (Loose as it's done on Google translate) :
Whether new or used car preparation - the high-quality car care products from Maxolen / Pfanner for professionals are always the best choice. Long established and high quality. All products comply with the law of course.
So you help each vehicle shine.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Iv not read all the comments in this thread yet, but its quite interesting how easy people seem to think it is. 

We set out to make a range of products as a natural progression of what we do here at Auto Finesse, i was testing products for companies for years (iv been in this game for 12 years now) giving feed back on how they are to use in real world situations. Sometimes this was acted upon others not, this naturally led on to starting to develop some products for our own brand with people we had worked closely with over the past years. Now whilst i agree detailers/valeters are not the best people to be actually making these products and mixing them up, i don't see anyone better suited to specing products, trailing and feeding back and helping in the development of the products to bring to market. 

We had another brand of products in the early stages a couple of years back (that was a partnership between my self and another well known product manufacture on here) for one reason or another this never made it to production (other businesses progressed and needed more attention and this took a back seat), this was more "high tec style coatings" but what we wanted to create with Auto Finesse range was good honest products that are tried and tested over the years, no trick shampoos that wash, dry and wax in one (as i don't believe any product can do all these stages properly in one). Just products that work well, and do the job intended to the best possible ability, we wanted products that the sunday car washer through to the seasoned pro could pick up to use and get great results with ease.

But if people think its easy you would be surprised, it takes alot of people to make this stuff happen.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

James B said:


> But if people think its easy you would be surprised, it takes alot of people to make this stuff happen.


+1

Regardless of if people agree or disagree, like or hate what is happening....if anyone says bringing something 'new' or 'different' to market after testing, refining etc is easy, then they are either stupid, or have never tried to do anything on their own...

There is a shed load of work, rework, hassle and worry...and anyone doing it, deserves all the luck to make it a success (if it is good enough, of course)....

:thumb:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Or plenty of decanting/relabelling going on! :doublesho


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## Tazz (Aug 23, 2010)

an interesting read from maxolen, which proves the point, if youre going to buy something that you know thats going to work, and is approved, and not relabeled, stick to the renouned established companies and not companies made last week

interesting statement here...

*I mean a dental receptionist works in the dental surgery for 5 years and looks after your records so would you trust her to give you surgery? I think not.*

basically saying that a car valeter may be cleaning cars for 5 yrs, doesnt mean he knows how to mix chemicals in a safe manner (and we all know theres a difference between a mere valeter and a detailer)

this is why im sticking with meguiars, over 100 yrs experience in the game and can cater for every eventuality, no base is untouched, and thats what i like :-D

taking a look at these new companies, theyre over priced and are they really offering anything new to the game?


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## PrestigeChris (Nov 17, 2009)

until youve tried them mate i wouldnt comment about them, i know for a fact lee at concours is working closely with a chemist and labs to get exactly the products he wants, he might not know how to mix products but im damn sure the chemist will!


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

PrestigeChris said:


> until youve tried them mate i wouldnt comment about them, i know for a fact lee at concours is working closely with a chemist and labs to get exactly the products he wants, he might not know how to mix products but im damn sure the chemist will!


that's a good point Chris. It's ok saying people don't know how to mix products, but at the end of the day some are getting proper chemists to do the work and some are taking a different route. I don't think any are mixing wheel cleaner etc in their kitchen.

I don't know how to make a pork pie, but my (vast) experience of eating them tells me what a good one should be like...if you catch my drift.


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

Tazz said:


> an interesting read from maxolen, which proves the point, if youre going to buy something that you know thats going to work, and is approved, and not relabeled, stick to the renouned established companies and not companies made last week
> 
> interesting statement here...
> 
> ...


I agree with sticking to established companies to a certain extent but on the flip-side, they were new once and people had to try and test their products to get to what they are today. I also agree some companies may not offer anything particularly new, but it may be the way that they slightly tweak it to offer something slightly different, making it more suitable for a particular user. I maybe just biased as I always want to try new things to judge for myself whether it works for me as I want to expand my knowledge of different brands and products. Don't get me wrong I used to love meguiars and autoglym and I still use some of their products for jobs requiring more specific jobs, but for my bulk I've found a company that ticks all the boxes for me. Quality, fair price, none of the products so far have damaged me or a vehicle in any way so far, and they are also a company that are happy to give me advice and help on both their products and techniques of detailing etc. whereas some companies choose to keep it to themselves. Each to their own I suppose :thumb:


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## Big Buffer (Jan 1, 2011)

Deano has a good example with the pork pie thing.
We know how products behave and the likes of concours and Autofinesse know to, thats why they spending plenty of wonga getting it right.
I know concours has used his own wax and it works.


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

willwad82 said:


> Deano has a good example with the pork pie thing.
> We know how products behave and the likes of concours and Autofinesse know to, thats why they spending plenty of wonga getting it right.


I like the ploughman pork pies :tumbleweed:


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

The big thing is we need to be sure as end users that these products are safe, and the brands working with chemists need to know chemists are safe. Before a product can be marketed it needs an MSDS produced after the body who looks after all the stuff has tested the product to ensure it has in it what you say it has. Also MSDS can't be a secret club as many manufacturers on here treat them, if your selling to an end user you legally must give them the MSDS on request and most brands on here do not.

If its selling to trade only it's a different story.

I know Lee is putting his heart and soul in to concours for example and ensuring it is all legal safe and above board and he will tell you it isn't easy.

It's more of a regulated industry than we think.

I'm all for more brands as long as they don't pose any risks. I like the option of variety.


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

I agree with Maxolen whole heartedly ... I see a lot of people starting up their own brands in this industry and others saying 'this is our own special formulation' , 'we work closely with chemists' blah blah blah .... 

.... So what your really saying is that the chemist you are working with knows some magic formulation that non of the 100's of chemists that work for the likes of Maxolen, Autosmart, Autoglym, Meguiars etc have not tried and tested in the past? And also that your product will be better than any of theirs that are currently on the market? I think not :lol: If your products were that good then not just detailers would be using it ... it would be in garages, showrooms and the national retailers!! they would be begging for the stuff  

Don't get me wrong, I am behind the people that in the past started out small, maybe brought 1 or 2 products to market, which had been formulated and re-formulated many times over, tried and tested for durability and so on until they had the perfect version that they were happy with, then after attaining the correct licences/packaging/labelling etc. these products were made available to the public for purchase .... (Dodo, Rubbish Boy spring to mind .... Bouncer 22 is another future wax hall of famer!) 

IMO stick with what your good at .... it's not a 'natural progression' as some have put it, it's a way of making a quick buck like every other seller on the likes of eBay .... just because you have used cleaning products for the past 100 years does not mean you know how to make them or even if your chemist knows what he is doing!! 

New brands popping up claiming 2, 3, 4 blah blah years of durability ... so where's you proof then? where are your real world durability tests? Salt, Acid, Alkaline erosion data? Funny how you and your chemist can quote durability figures when the 'special formulation' has only just been conceived?? ... And before anyone attacks my post; I know where some of these new brands are getting there stuff from ... if you know the right people and look hard enough  do a bit of research, you don't need to be a genius to find out 

The above is my opinion, I did not say anything to get a rise or ruffle any feathers. The statement I have made is not directed at anyone or any brand in particular, just my own thoughts on the subject :thumb:


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## Tazz (Aug 23, 2010)

if youre advertising nationally, or internationally, they ye, you need to be legal otherwise of getting caught, but what about those that sell it to mates only or on ebay under a false name, or through website forums? luckily theres clued up and clever people of DW

a company set up last week is far too much of a giveway of how they operate, especially when theres no customer reviews and they wont tell you the contents

i asked when i first registered on here about brands stating more info like where their product is on the ph scale, its not much to ask, but it helps decide what we need, it took me months to find the right wheel cleaner, had the information been there, it wouldnt of

EDIT: the wheel cleaner i use, we all know is rebottled and rebranded with another company, but it is given the go ahead to be able to do this 

EDIT again to the poster above: i agree with what youve said, but to me, if you can buy it off the shelves in a store, then its good enough to buy with piece of mind, however, the flip side to that, you cant buy dodo juice from the shelves at halfords, yet we all know it works


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

Tazz said:


> ... i agree with what youve said, but to me, if you can buy it off the shelves in a store, then its good enough to buy with piece of mind, however, the flip side to that, you cant buy dodo juice from the shelves at halfords, yet we all know it works


There are different labelling requirements if you are selling to the public ie; through a retail store or website ... a lot of these new brands are labelling there products for trade use yet letting joe public buy them without warning them of the risks  or simply repackaging them using the same hazard labels/coding etc ...

For instance; The reason Autoglym have a trade version and a retail version is that some of the chemicals used in the trade stuff are not suitable for sale to the public (to harsh, to concentrated etc.) ... that's why certain products from the likes of AG, Megs, Turtle Wax etc get slated saying that they take too long to work or they are rubbish compared to the trade equivalent ...


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

The main reason behind me doing what i'm doing is due to a contract I have in place with Audi who have taken my products due to their dislike for the products they currently have.

I don't need to get involved with this thread too much and if i say it's a 2 year guarantee on our ceramic sealant then it is. You don't want to buy it? Don't.

I have a network of detailers using the products and they're more than happy with them and have seen why I have done what i have done and they chose to join me after trying the products.


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## Tazz (Aug 23, 2010)

i was always under the impression that because trade stuff was always bigger bulk and cheaper in measurement, that it wasnt as good, 'diluted' to an extent?


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

Tazz said:


> i was always under the impression that because trade stuff was always bigger bulk and cheaper in measurement, that it wasnt as good, 'diluted' to an extent?


They use more of it, thats why they buy in bulk :thumb:


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

Concours CC said:


> The main reason behind me doing what i'm doing is due to a contract I have in place with Audi who have taken my products due to their dislike for the products they currently have.
> 
> I don't need to get involved with this thread too much and if i say it's a 2 year guarantee on our ceramic sealant then it is. You don't want to buy it? Don't.


Ok then, as a matter of interest;

~ What does the guarantee cover against? 
~ What are you actually guaranteeing?
~ What do you guarantee the product will protect against? 
~ If the product does fail whilst under the warranty period do you have insurance in place to cover against claims? ie; uv damage, acid erosion etc??

Without answers to the above questions it's like me bringing a ceramic sealant to the UK market and saying 'Supershield ~ 10yr warranty' ... if I say it's 10 yr's then it is .... 

The only reason I ask is GTechniq offer a warranty on there ceramic sealant which must be maintained by an authorised Gtechniq applicator throughout the warranty period to maintain the finish ... Gtechniq clearly state on there site exactly what is covered and included with the warranty. I have also seen real world data from them showing how the coating performs under different circumstances ...

You say 'buy it or don't' your not bothered, but why would I want to buy something and apply it to my car on the say so of a detailer that from what I have seen has no real world data to back up these claims? I did not want to mention this on the open forum but; I asked you for an msds to read through, you would not send me it as you said you did not want to send it out to anyone who had not bought your product, now I could be wrong but I was under the opinion that it was a legal requirement that upon request an msds sheet must be available? I apologise if I am proved wrong on this.

Please Note: I am genuinely interested with regards to answers to the above questions as I am sure many others are too. I am not trying to start an argument with anyone and I appreciate any input Lee and others have to give on the matter. TY


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm not getting into an argument about it.

I am a very busy man and honestly can't see myself commenting anything worthwhile due to some of the wild claims by some people on this thread.

I'll keep my head down and carry on with my work


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)




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## Tazz (Aug 23, 2010)

if audi arent happy with what theyre using, why not just go to another long serving established, company? to which it would probably work out cheaper for them as well, arent all companies looking to spend as less as possible to make back enough profit? :-/

what are they currently using btw? im guessing autoglym as vw use ag, as do most manufacturers...


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Concours CC said:


> Retailers do not have to supply safety data sheets to the general public. But if you buy a dangerous chemical from a retailer for use at work, the retailer must provide a safety data sheet if you ask for one. Retailers do not have to give you the safety data sheet with the product, provided they make arrangements to forward it promptly


Lee I'm actually 99% sure if you sell to general public you must either have the info on the bottle or provide MSDS. Check it out though


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

Spoony said:


> Lee I'm actually 99% sure if you sell to general public you must either have the info on the bottle or provide MSDS. Check it out though


:thumb:


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Info is on the bottle and we provide MSDS to customers on request.

I took that info from the .Gov.uk site not my own script mate


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Just love the armchair spectators and haters.

It's amazing how some people sit on the highest of horses :wall:

No - one in particular but they know who they are.


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

Tazz said:


> if audi arent happy with what theyre using, why not just go to another long serving established, company? to which it would probably work out cheaper for them as well, arent all companies looking to spend as less as possible to make back enough profit? :-/
> 
> what are they currently using btw? im guessing autoglym as vw use ag, as do most manufacturers...


Again I could be way out but I imagine Lee has his products in an Audi franchise and not through the national chain.

I have a friend that works for Autosmart and no garage has any set in stone alliances with products ... he says most of the time if he can prove his product is better and cheaper they will order from him, if Autoglym come 3 weeks later and they have a similar product but do it cheaper again that time they will buy from AG ... garages are in it for profit not for brand promotion :thumb:


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Concours CC said:


> Info is on the bottle and we provide MSDS to customers on request.
> 
> I took that info from the .Gov.uk site not my own script mate


Good stuff, I did say on my previous post that your put your heart and soul in to the concours brand and getting it right on every level. Which is why you'll be sucessful.

It's always an interesting discusion point is this.


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

Concours CC said:


> Just love the armchair spectators and haters.
> 
> It's amazing how some people sit on the highest of horses :wall:
> 
> No - one in particular but they know who they are.


:thumb:

If you do get time out from your busy schedule then an answer to my questions would be much appreciated Lee. TY


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Im in talks with Audi UK

Autosmart has nothing to do with paint protection contracts. They supply valeters but Im not in it for that. I have no interest in supplying drums of fall out remover to a valeting bay. 
Im dealing with corporate structures and our products are on trial set to roll out nationally in 2012 qtr 3


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Smurf. said:


> :thumb:
> 
> If you do get time out from your busy schedule then an answer to my questions would be much appreciated Lee. TY


Your more than welcome to phone me tomorrow or in fact pop over and speak to me in the office rather than a forum


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Just to be clear, the following is a personal opinion and doesn't reflect DWs stand point. 

I can see the point of the info on the bottle, but do we really need to be told that we can't drink it or pour it on a match? Not sure how it all works but I deal with haz chem day in day out in my day job and if its in a bulk container we have to have all appropriate paperwork etc before it goes out, but if the same product is decanted into smaller containers, we can move exactly the same quantity without paperwork!?! 

I'm sure all traders on here will supply data sheets on request. I just find the hoohaa about product info on bottles curious when a lot of users always post in off topic threads how health and safety goes mad. 

Until we have hard facts about what requires labels and what doesn't, I think we should loose the scaremonger type posts. It's ok knowing the requirements as posted earlier, but without knowing what goes into a product we won't know if it requires a label by law surely?

If I use it to clean your car, don't snort it, don't eat it. don't smoke it, don't pour it on open flames. DW has gone 6 years without this furor about labels and safety sheets, and in my time here I know of no-one that has downed a bottle of QD because there wasn't a label on it. 

And if anyone has a problem with the new wave of manufacturers, either don't buy it, or get off your armchair and see if you can do better.


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

Concours CC said:


> Im in talks with Audi UK
> 
> Autosmart has nothing to do with paint protection contracts. They supply valeters but Im not in it for that. I have no interest in supplying drums of fall out remover to a valeting bay.
> Im dealing with corporate structures and our products are on trial set to roll out nationally in 2012 qtr 3


Ah, sounds good ... you have done well to get in to a national chain and international brand so quickly considering the company has just started trading ... Gtechniq must be so jealous of you right now considering they have been established for years and have had to roll out a nationwide authorised applicator scheme, doing trials in garages nationwide to allow dealers to actually see how the product should be applied, explaining what there warranty covers and, also giving them gathered weathering and erosion data from years of research and real world trialling ... 

Think you will find both Autoglym and Autosmart offer paint protection systems with warranties ... although without the correct training of how to apply said product they might not be up to the same standard as yours obviously


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Deano the info on bottles is EU regs.

Look at your fairy bottle in the house they don't out that info on there out of hchoice. The new regs coming out will make it even more ludacris when shampoos and shower gels say things like not to have it in contact with skin.

I know exactly where your comin from Deano and I agree it is common sense but the laws never take in to account common sense


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Deano said:


> And if anyone has a problem with the new wave of manufacturers, either don't buy it, or get off your armchair and see f you can do better.


Well said Deano!!!

If you like the look of a product buy it and if not, don't.

There are enough members who provide feedback on products, everybody's tastes are different and what one user likes doesn't necessarily mean the other will, good luck to anyone that wants to expand their detailing business with products, it's a competitive market.


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Gleammachine said:


> Well said Deano!!!
> 
> *If you like the look of a product buy it* and if not, don't.
> 
> There are enough members who provide feedback on products, everybody's tastes are different and what one user likes doesn't necessarily mean the other will, good luck to anyone that wants to expand their detailing business with products, it's a competitive market.


Therein lies my problem and the reason I need to build more shelving lol


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

Concours CC said:


> Your more than welcome to phone me tomorrow or in fact pop over and speak to me in the office rather than a forum


Thanks, much appreciated  Just so others are clear on the answers to my questions, would it be ok if I post your answers on a DW thread? Just so were all clear on exactly what the 2 yr warranty covers 



Deano said:


> Just to be clear, the following is a personal opinion and doesn't reflect DWs stand point.
> 
> I can see the point of the info on the bottle, but do we really need to be told that we can't drink it or pour it on a match? Not sure how it all works but I deal with haz chem day in day out in my day job and if its in a bulk container we have to have all appropriate paperwork etc before it goes out, but if the same product is decanted into smaller containers, we can move exactly the same quantity without paperwork!?!
> 
> ...


The labelling is not there for the ones who know how to use it, but for the people who don't ie; if a child picks up the bottle and drinks it, then needs to go to hospital; the product would need to be on it (or MSDS) so that it can be checked what hazardous chemicals are in it so that they know what to do next to treat it.



Deano said:


> And if anyone has a problem with the new wave of manufacturers, either don't buy it, or get off your armchair and see f you can do better.


Might just do that Deano  How do I go about advertising it on the forum


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

Im up for those wishing to push the boundries and give us better products for our money.

We have gone from waxes to sealants to nano sealants and now super sealants. And for what its worth i say bring it on as its about time we got them.


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

I understand the EU reg for labels, but how do we know a product needs one? if it isnt toxic, an irritant, flammable (which also depends on what flashpoint it has) then how do we know it even needs one? if anyone is neglecting their obligations then i'm sure they'll be found out and dealt with by the proper authorities, which by the way is NOT DW. 

We are an advertising platform for traders that is it. it's upto them to make sure they operate a lawful establishment. If you saw a Sony Tv advertised on Sky, and it came with faulty wiring, you wouldn't expect Sky to investigate your complaint.

It sounds harsh but we need to make this clear before anyone starts expecting us to tell people how to conduct their own business.


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Smurf. said:


> How do I go about advertising it on the forum


you ask whizzer, see if you meet the criteria, then get put on the waiting list.:thumb:


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

I'll be the one to post what we cover bud.

We have a lovely set of instructions, data sheets and warranty info to go into each Ceramishield package we send out


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## Tazz (Aug 23, 2010)

with all 50+ companies claiming to have the next big product that can solve world hunger, cure cancer and can balance out the global economy, how do we decide whos genuine and whos chatting BS?

btw, the above is completely tongue in cheek, i wouldnt expect a car care manufacturer to solve world hunger! :-D


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Tazz said:


> with all 50+ companies claiming to have the next big product that can solve world hunger, cure cancer and can balance out the global economy, how do we decide whos genuine and whos chatting BS?
> 
> btw, the above is completely tongue in cheek, i wouldnt expect a car care manufacturer to solve world hunger! :-D


the same way you decide what sausages or breakfast cereal to buy. :thumb:


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

chillly said:


> Im up for those wishing to push the boundries and give us better products for our money.
> 
> We have gone from waxes to sealants to nano sealants and now super sealants. And for what its worth i say bring it on as its about time we got them.


I think were all up for new products coming to market, I would much prefer to see brands create there own ranges of products/ceramic sealants not just buy someone else's re-package it, over inflate the pricing and then call it their own ... anyone can start a brand, promote it to the masses and reap the benefits but there are only a few I know of with the knowledge of what is actually in these products, how and why they work and proof of there claims ....

Think I might go buy a Nissan GTR tomorrow, change the badges, colour, spoiler, leather interior colour then promote it to Top Gear and say how long it's taken me to do and how much time, money and effort I have put in 

... if it's not your own work, then it's not your product ... you are just a re-seller when all is said and done.


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## tzotzo (Nov 15, 2009)

Concours CC said:


> Your more than welcome to phone me tomorrow or in fact pop over and speak to me in the office rather than a forum


Hi there.
First of all I have to state that I don't know you in person, or have tried your products and find them good (or bad)

I find that when you are a sponsor in a forum regarding you work, and you make a living through that, you are obliged to respond to such questions.

I guess that is the reason supaguard and williams ceramic coat (and other similar companies) offering x year guarantees choose not to participate and reply in DW.


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## tzotzo (Nov 15, 2009)

again please not take it as a personal offense or to your products.


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

tzotzo said:


> Hi there.
> First of all I have to state that I don't know you in person, or have tried your products and find them good (or bad)
> 
> I find that when you are a sponsor in a forum regarding you work, and you make a living through that, you are obliged to respond to such questions.
> ...


When I am officially unveiled as a trader on here I will but as you can see, im not yet and although Im allowed to mention the products, I dont have my own section just yet so that is when i will be allowed to which is why I CAN'T post them yet.

I will be posting a whole load of info when i can. I am not avoiding anything but don't want to get banned from here before I even sign the line :wall:


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

Deano said:


> you ask whizzer, see if you meet the criteria, then get put on the waiting list.:thumb:


Thank you Deano 



Concours CC said:


> I'll be the one to post what we cover bud.
> 
> We have a lovely set of instructions, data sheets and warranty info to go into each Ceramishield package we send out


So you have to buy it before you know what the warranty covers  different way of marketing I suppose ... although if Audi UK national network of dealers are up for it then who am I to say otherwise :lol:


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Smurf. said:


> The labelling is not there for the ones who know how to use it, but for the people who don't ie; if a child picks up the bottle and drinks it, then needs to go to hospital; the product would need to be on it (or MSDS) so that it can be checked what hazardous chemicals are in it so that they know what to do next to treat it.


I fully understand the reasons for it, I'm just a little peeved that in all the time DW has been operating and people have been buying thousands of products, no one has EVER got a bee in their bonnet about this before. I have bottles of stuff under the stairs (yeah I did just go and check) that has zero info on it and the products are from major players in the industry. A couple of people mention it and now it's the next big thing to be up in arms about.

Again this is from me and not from a DW staff point.


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Smurf. said:


> Thank you Deano
> 
> So you have to buy it before you know what the warranty covers  different way of marketing I suppose ... although if Audi UK national network of dealers are up for it then who am I to say otherwise :lol:


Do you not get warranty instructions sent out with electrical goods etc?


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## tzotzo (Nov 15, 2009)

Deano said:


> Do you not get warranty instructions sent out with electrical goods etc?


Ofcourse I get warranty instructions, prior to purchase.
Its illegal if I don't get any.


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Smurf

I can only post full details of everything when I have actually been given my own section. I have only been told I can mention products and not worry about moderating people mentioning my stuff which I have been doing every day.

I am not hiding anything but without my own section and full go ahead, what can i do?


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

tzotzo said:


> Ofcourse I get warranty instructions, prior to purchase.
> Its illegal if I don't get any.


wasn't directed at you, was directed at the comment of only getting warranty details with the goods. :thumb:


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

Deano said:


> I fully understand the reasons for it, I'm just a little peeved that in all the time DW has been operating and people have been buying thousands of products, no one has EVER got a bee in their bonnet about this before. I have bottles of stuff under the stairs (yeah I did just go and check) that has zero info on it and the products are from major players in the industry. A couple of people mention it and now it's the next big thing to be up in arms about.
> 
> Again this is from me and not from a DW staff point.


I get where your coming from Deano, but at the end of the day it is the law, worst case scenario should an accident happen the hospital or whoever can dial in to the website and download a copy of an msds, I am not sure on every brand but in general if it's not on the bottle then it's downloadable from there site ...

I think another big problem is that a lot of the products that come from the states are not labelled properly when they come in to the UK, ie; they don't have metric sizes or the correct hazardous warnings/ caps etc that we require in the e.u ...

It is all bulls**t health and safety these days but it's there and needs to be adhered to.

A lot of people don't want to release such information as most of the time it is a big give away as to where there products have really been made


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## tzotzo (Nov 15, 2009)

Smurf. said:


> I get where your coming from Deano, but at the end of the day it is the law, worst case scenario should an accident happen the hospital or whoever can dial in to the website and download a copy of an msds, I am not sure on every brand but in general if it's not on the bottle then it's downloadable from there site ...
> 
> I think another big problem is that a lot of the products that come from the states are not labelled properly when they come in to the UK, ie; they don't have metric sizes or the correct hazardous warnings/ caps etc that we require in the e.u ...
> 
> ...


I think US, has more strict control than UK, but I maybe wrong.


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

Deano said:


> Do you not get warranty instructions sent out with electrical goods etc?


Yes, but this is a chemical which could have adverse detrimental effects to your cars paintwork ...

If you buy a tv, plug it in and there's a picture, you know its working. When the tv doesn't turn on, you take it back to your store and they replace it under warranty. The manufacturer guarantees that the tv will work within that said period of warranty ie; does what it supposed to.

If a ceramic sealant has a warranty then what does the warranty cover? a manufacturer should state exactly what the said product is supposed to do and guarantee that it will do that for an x amount of time .... if the product fails then the manufacturer would have to reimburse or replace that product otherwise a guarantee cannot be implied and should not be offered, making it nothing more than a worthless piece of paper. With something like a ceramic sealant there are to many variables to take in to account ie; care, acids, water hardness, uv oxidisation and so on ... to make claims of 2 yr's plus without knowing how the coating will be cared for and storage conditions etc are ludicrous, hence my original questions asking exactly what the warranty covers ....


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## Tazz (Aug 23, 2010)

to take the heated legal side out of this argument for a moment, simply asking about a products contents isnt just for health and safety, us on DW, and valeters/detailers/hobbiests that arent on here, would just like to know what the products contain as a general interest and to help us gauge better what product is best for whatever job in hand


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

My point was, if you did buy a TV that was offered with a 5year guarantee, would you ask for an upfront copy of the warranty before buying like you're asking Concours for? 

I don't think enough credit is being given to the manufacturers here. They don't knock this stuff up in the bath and then put it straight into bottles.


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Tazz said:


> to take the heated legal side out of this argument for a moment, simply asking about a products contents isnt just for health and safety, us on DW, and valeters/detailers/hobbiests that arent on here, would just like to know what the products contain as a general interest and to help us gauge better what product is best for whatever job in hand


how would an ingredients list help determine choice? the marketing statement would be used to consider if it was the right product for the job in hand. Being given a three page list of enzymes, colourants and fragrances wouldnt help unless you are a chemist?


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## rich1880 (May 26, 2010)

What have I started!!!!!!

Generally with datasheets there is a link from the website so anyone can see them in an emergency, normally this is held on a different website but the address is given out when someone asks for it. i.e you drink it, doctor phones the company, company says go to www.blahblahblah.co.uk, doctor reads info.

It is a requirement if asked for datasheets that they are provided, it matters not if they have purchased from you, the reason being some sops/industrial units cannot stock certain chemicals and the datasheet gives these details. It may also be an issue if you are looking at keeping something which the datasheet says highly flammable etc and may require special storage before purchase.

I actually like the sound of the concourse car care products and I may give them a go, and this is from someone who wouldnt buy dodo stuff so I must think that they have something good to offer


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Anyway I'm getting far too involved with this. :lol: i don't usually get agitated and chime in but it just strikes me a lot of this could be seen as moaning for moanings sake.

edit- sorry maybe the last line is a bit harsh but hopefully you get what I mean, like i say, no one has every questioned this before and there seems to be a bandwagon on the roll.


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## rich1880 (May 26, 2010)

As for listing ingredients, a datasheet would not cover this, only any hazardous elements in most cases. I dont think anyone should post all of the ingredients. I do agree with the warranty side of things as to what is covered etc.


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## Tazz (Aug 23, 2010)

not so much of ingrediants, but more of a guide for best usuage

ie, for me, im interested in the ph scale of things, shampoos and wheel cleaners more so, or a wax containing shampoo, well what wax and at what percentage?

if youre looking for a wax containing shampoo, telling you the percentage will sway you to whatever has the most (in theory), its another way and trying to win your custom


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## SarahAnn (Apr 6, 2011)

It reads more like a wind-up thread towards the end. If Concours has any sense, he will have gone off to do something more constructive, than to keep answering this thread when he has already said when the time is right, he will publish his info on here :wall:

Smurf, why are you so interested in Concours products if you have your own products ready to release and market?


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Tazz said:


> not so much of ingrediants, but more of a guide for best usuage
> 
> ie, for me, im interested in the ph scale of things, shampoos and wheel cleaners more so, or a wax containing shampoo, *well what wax and at what percentage*?
> 
> if youre looking for a wax containing shampoo, telling you the percentage will sway you to whatever has the most (in theory), its another way and trying to win your custom


that would help TBH. :thumb:


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## Stomper (Jun 8, 2011)

Tazz said:


> to take the heated legal side out of this argument for a moment, simply asking about a products contents isnt just for health and safety, us on DW, and valeters/detailers/hobbiests that arent on here, would just like to know what the products contain as a general interest and to help us gauge better what product is best for whatever job in hand


Im quite lucky as i havent been around long enough to be brainwashed with all the hype and snobbery around certain products but .....
I recently put my buying of detailing products on hold when i realised my hands were all breaking out, i just needed to figure out what was causing it . At this point i realised most of the products i own had no safety instructions or ingredients list .
Im not by any means a perfect law abiding citizen , but i do know my rights . 
I also know that when my 7 year old son is helping me detail that i dont want him affected in any way by the chemicals we use .

Going back to whats already been said . Why would someone rebrand a product , go to all the bother of redesigning the packaging etc, then risk it all by not giving the required info . When i say risk , i mean if it all goes **** up then 1 court case and its all over for a small company .

Seems crazy to me .
But as i said , i aint been around long enough to GET IT .


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## Tazz (Aug 23, 2010)

Deano said:


> They don't knock this stuff up in the bath and then put it straight into bottles.


thats how meguiars started!


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

WTF!
This has gone right off key now hasnt it guys and gals?

Lee - Good luck.

Anyone else having a go and going it the right way rather than re-branding - Good luck.

As already has been stated. If your not interested then dont bother and turn away. Buy what you enjoy using and leave the choice to the individual.


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

Deano said:


> My point was, if you did buy a TV that was offered with a 5year guarantee, would you ask for an upfront copy of the warranty before buying like you're asking Concours for?


To be honest, yes I would! Many year's ago I used to work in retail, most (if not all from memory) of the manufacturers had a warranty leaflet at the point of sale telling you exactly what the warranty covered.



Deano said:


> I don't think enough credit is being given to the manufacturers here. They don't knock this stuff up in the bath and then put it straight into bottles.


And that's my point Deano, a lot of the time these new manufacturers are not making anything of there own to start with! just re-branding and re-packaging, I know that for certain with regards to one of the new products to market


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## tzotzo (Nov 15, 2009)

Deano said:


> My point was, if you did buy a TV that was offered with a 5year guarantee, would you ask for an upfront copy of the warranty before buying like you're asking Concours for?
> 
> I don't think enough credit is being given to the manufacturers here. They don't knock this stuff up in the bath and then put it straight into bottles.


If its advertised as a 5 year warranty, and its main advantage is that. Yes I would ask for more information.

I'm not asking concours cc for a copy of. Probably I' won't even get a chance to try his products, no matter how much I want to. Unless he is reselling in Greece.

But this forum is a space manufacturers advertise, and matters will arise.
Such as the ones arised in this thread.

Again I don't want Concours to be offended. And ofcourse it is not something personal


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Smurf. said:


> *To be honest, yes I would!* Many year's ago I used to work in retail, most (if not all from memory) of the manufacturers had a warranty leaflet at the point of sale telling you exactly what the warranty covered.
> 
> And that's my point Deano, a lot of the time these new manufacturers are not making anything of there own to start with! just re-branding and re-packaging, I know that for certain with regards to one of the new products to market


you're in the minority then.  especially if it's bought on line.

those that do rebrand and repackage will still be using tried and tested products surely? Your post about products having a detrimental effect to paintwork suggested (to me at least) that they might be putting something dangerous and untested in bottles?


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## Tazz (Aug 23, 2010)

name and shame...

maybe these companies are also 'diluting' product with whatever to get the most out of it, like cocaine and rat poison!

ok, bad example, lol


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

tzotzo said:


> If its advertised as a 5 year warranty, and its main advantage is that. Yes I would ask for more information.
> 
> I'm not asking concours cc for a copy of. Probably I' won't even get a chance to try his products, no matter how much I want to. Unless he is reselling in Greece.
> 
> ...


again, wasn't aimed at you. also, what matter has arisen? Is anyone doubting the guarantee offered by concours? Lee can't, by forum rules, post intricates about his product until he gets his own section which will be very very soon.

People are being accused of things before even being approached with a problem that doesn't exist and this thread isn't long for this world.


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## tzotzo (Nov 15, 2009)

Deano said:


> again, wasn't aimed at you. also, what matter has arisen? Is anyone doubting the guarantee offered by concours? Lee can't, by forum rules, post intricates about his product until he gets his own section which will be very very soon.
> 
> People are being accused of things before even being approached with a problem that doesn't exist and this thread isn't long for this world.


Ok, my last post in this thread.
When Concours will get his own space, he will have to post details about his products (not only the ceramic one) and maybe have to deal with negative feed back. At that point, if he says I am a busy man, and i can't respond to a forum post, automaticaly will lose his credibility as a manufacturer.

Again this goes to every manufacturer in here not only to concours cc, and its not an assault in any way towards him


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

Smurf. said:


> To be honest, yes I would! Many year's ago I used to work in retail, most (if not all from memory) of the manufacturers had a warranty leaflet at the point of sale telling you exactly what the warranty covered.
> 
> And that's my point Deano, a lot of the time these new manufacturers are not making anything of there own to start with! just re-branding and re-packaging, I know that for certain with regards to one of the new products to market


It just seems like you're having a bit of a dig tbh. Why are you getting so hung up on this? I've been and looked at every single one of my Meguiars and Autoglym bottles, they don't say anything about 'do not drink this' 'keep out the way of children' 'wash with warm water if irritating occurs' blah blah. It simply says, data sheets are available UPON REQUEST, which I'm sure traders will be willing to give you. If you're really worried about all these non-law abiding traders then take it up with someone, don't slate them and make snide comments about what they do such as 'well if Audi are using your products, who am I to say different'. Lee must've done something right or else noone would give his products a go. So just give it a rest man.


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

Smurf. said:


> Think you will find both Autoglym and Autosmart offer paint protection systems with warranties ... although without the correct training of how to apply said product they might not be up to the same standard as yours obviously


been through this thread and got kinda lost TBH....all getting out of hand and a lot being pointed in one direction which is a little unfair but everyone has their own opinions of who they get on with and products they intend to use and promote if they like them or not....

The statement above is sticking in my mind as apparently this must be the guidelines of product introduction and acceptance into major dealerships....well sorry its BS....and all pro detailers on here will I think agree, when you have seen what goes on behind those doors no company in their right minds would say "my product aint going in here because your staff have no idea of how to apply it" now would they....they are in it for sales not whether it gets applied correctly, thats why stuff like the products mentioned above are aimed at dealerships....

I have also picked up in here that someone says a retailer should provide an MSDS if it is asked for, irrespective of whether info is given on the bottle....if thats the case then I am off to halfords to get an MSDS for every product I have bought from them....please correct me if i am wrong....do they or dont they have to provide it because if they dont then why should Lee if he is just acting as a retailer other than providing it to a professional....


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

SarahAnn said:


> ... he has already said when the time is right, he will publish his info on here :wall:
> 
> Smurf, why are you so interested in Concours products if you have your own products ready to release and market?


I did not say I had my own products Sarah, if you read my comments through properly then you would know this already  ...

I was talking about products in general, but since you ask;

One product I know for a fact that is being retailed by a new manufacturer as there own is not ... I know the guy in the US who patented the formulation and have been in contact with him for a long time now. I have not said anything previously on the open forum as I was looking to bring this product to UK market myself.

I also gave the said manufacturer the opportunity to tell me otherwise when asked via PM ... the manufacturer stated that they have license on the product ... this does not make it there own!! I could link to the original product so you can all see and read the relevant msds but I won't ...

All I am saying is; yes if it is your own then well done, but in this case if it's not then why take the credit??



Deano said:


> you're in the minority then.  especially if it's bought on line.


Everyone that bought from me wanted to know exactly what the warranty covered so I don't think I am in the minority ....



Deano said:


> those that do rebrand and repackage will still be using tried and tested products surely? Your post about products having a detrimental effect to paintwork suggested (to me at least) that they might be putting something dangerous and untested in bottles?


Answered above I think ...


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## Tazz (Aug 23, 2010)

i didnt think this was a personal attack on anyone in particular, just a general observation on companies created in the last half hour claiming to have evidence dating back 2 years to back up a product that they made in their lunch break last week?!


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Russ you wouldn't ask halfords you would ask the manufacturer.

Retailers on here don't provide, I asked zaino for them and was blanked on 2nd email.

I think the point is we all want to be safe. No personal digs no childish games, I just want to know what I'm using is safe and has no special requirements. Also like to know PPE requirements.


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## SarahAnn (Apr 6, 2011)

Smurf - you were asking the mods how you would advertise your product. Silly me for thinking that you had one.

Mods - can we close this thread please. Reason - boring :lol:


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## rich1880 (May 26, 2010)

Reflectology I agree with your post, however you couldnt go into halfords and ask for MFD sheets on all products, what you could do is contact the manufacturer and ask for MFD sheets and tel them which products you require them for.

This thread has gone way off topic.

Between all of the stupid posts there has been some good points made around people wanting to be safe, wanting to ensure their car paint doesnt peel off and around the warranty side of things. We all have our own minds and if ensuring all relevant labels are in place and MFD sheets made available and warranty explained is not there then personally go for another product. I like to give new products a try and I'll take my chance, if i'm then not happy Ill let the company know and probably do a review of the product.


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

Boring and going round in circles. Honestly it's pathetic. If you don't like don't buy. If you want to stick to your favourite companies, don't try and put others in a bad light. Case closed, job done, close the thread!


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

JakeWhite said:


> I've been and looked at every single one of my Meguiars and Autoglym bottles, they don't say anything about 'do not drink this' 'keep out the way of children' 'wash with warm water if irritating occurs' blah blah. It simply says, data sheets are available UPON REQUEST, which I'm sure traders will be willing to give you.


If you read earlier posts you would see that trade and retail products are labelled differently ... my point is that certain products are being sold to retail when the contents of such products should only be available for trade use.

For instance; G101 is not available to Joe bloggs on the streets as its contents are classed as hazardous, it cannot be shipped unless a licensed carrier handles it, yet some people think it's ok for them to decant it in to a 500ml bottle not fit for purpose and call it there own then sell it on ....



Reflectology said:


> .... The statement above is sticking in my mind as apparently this must be the guidelines of product introduction and acceptance into major dealerships....well sorry its BS....and all pro detailers on here will I think agree, when you have seen what goes on behind those doors no company in their right minds would say "my product aint going in here because your staff have no idea of how to apply it" now would they....they are in it for sales not whether it gets applied correctly, thats why stuff like the products mentioned above are aimed at dealerships ....


Russ, my original questions had nothing to do with dealerships  ... I was asking what the warranty covers and was not given any answer ... all the other ceramic sealant manufacturers clearly state what their warranty covers plain as day on their website; GTechniq, Williams to name a couple ...


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## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

all started off talking about re-branding / re-labeling a product and people / companies claiming it to be there own which as we all know and some of us made clear in the earlier posts that this goes on on just about everything , yes there`s munufacturers that won`t allow this to happen but there plenty that will and do so , why do people think it would be any different in the world of detailing :wall:


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## maverick2702 (Feb 21, 2011)

jakewhite- whats the point in having a forum if people aren't allowed to voice their opinions on something just cos you don't agree doesn't mean we all don't agree.


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## Tiptronic (May 9, 2006)

How many mulberry bushes has this thread danced around?!? 

For some reason, Concours Car Care seems to have been singled out during this thread. If Lee was simply re-labelling someone elses product, then fair enough. But he isn't. Yes he is a valeter and detailer. Yes he knows what results he wants a product to achieve. BUT he is working with chemists to formulate products that he feels able to put on the market. 

I dread to think how much money it has cost with R&D, manufacturing, marketing etc. 

Chris


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## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

FAO Smurf , i`de bet you wear a boiler suit , gas mask and protective gloves when you go to petrol station after reading the thingy mabob data sheets on the dangers that comes with using petrol :lol:


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

Smurf. said:


> If you read earlier posts you would see that trade and retail products are labelled differently ... my point is that certain products are being sold to retail when the contents of such products should only be available for trade use.
> 
> For instance; *G101 is not available to Joe bloggs on the streets* as its contents are classed as hazardous, it cannot be shipped unless a *licensed carrier handles it*, yet some people think it's ok for them to decant it in to a 500ml bottle not fit for purpose and call it there own then sell it on ....
> 
> Russ, my original questions had nothing to do with dealerships  ... I was asking what the warranty covers and was not given any answer ... all the other ceramic sealant manufacturers clearly state what their warranty covers plain as day on their website; GTechniq, Williams to name a couple ...


Well you best get on the phone to eBay then, because there's alot of it being sold on there by every tom, dick or harry. Probably best to go and speak to each seller individually to make sure they're not breaking any laws or regulations. Oh and whilst you're there, ask them for a copy of their data sheets. But not for just G101 as there's also alot of other chemicals. Also probably worth checking if any other sellers are selling trade Autoglym, Meguiars etc because I would hate it if they weren't authorised re-sellers. This could get very time consuming I think :thumb:


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## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

Tiptronic said:


> How many mulberry bushes has this thread danced around?!?
> 
> For some reason, Concours Car Care seems to have been singled out during this thread. If Lee was simply re-labelling someone elses product, then fair enough. But he isn't. Yes he is a valeter and detailer. Yes he knows what results he wants a product to achieve. BUT he is working with chemists to formulate products that he feels able to put on the market.
> 
> ...


and totaly uncalled for ,


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

dwmc said:


> FAO Smurf , i`de bet you wear a boiler suit , gas mask and protective gloves when you go to petrol station after reading the thingy mabob data sheets on the dangers that comes with using petrol :lol:


at last something that made me smile in this thread :thumb: :lol:

..... I have said my bit now and I think I will leave it at that; I wanted a simple answer to a simple question but nevermind


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## Tiptronic (May 9, 2006)

dwmc said:


> FAO Smurf , i`de bet you wear a boiler suit , gas mask and protective gloves when you go to petrol station after reading the thingy mabob data sheets on the dangers that comes with using petrol :lol:


Daren't even think about hydrogen fuel cells then!


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

maverick2702 said:


> jakewhite- whats the point in having a forum if people aren't allowed to voice their opinions on something just cos you don't agree doesn't mean we all don't agree.


It's not that I don't agree. I like to work safely too. I just don't think it's fair people making sarcastic comments to a particular company.


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

JakeWhite said:


> Well you best get on the phone to eBay then, because there's alot of it being sold on there by every tom, dick or harry. Probably best to go and speak to each seller individually to make sure they're not breaking any laws or regulations. Oh and whilst you're there, ask them for a copy of their data sheets. But not for just G101 as there's also alot of other chemicals. Also probably worth checking if any other sellers are selling trade Autoglym, Meguiars etc because I would hate it if they weren't authorised re-sellers. This could get very time consuming I think :thumb:


Great contribution, well done


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## Tiptronic (May 9, 2006)

Smurf. said:


> at last something that made me smile in this thread :thumb: :lol:
> 
> ..... I have said my bit now and I think I will leave it at that; I wanted a simple answer to a simple question but nevermind


I hope you don't mind me asking but......

What was the purpose of your question? Was it actual interest in the product, or was it for another reason?

Thanks
Chris


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

dwmc said:


> FAO Smurf , i`de bet you wear a boiler suit , gas mask and protective gloves when you go to petrol station after reading the thingy mabob data sheets on the dangers that comes with using petrol :lol:


:lol: and do a risk assessment beforehand.


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

All I have to say is this

For some reason I am being dragged over hot coals here and to say i'm dissappointed is an understatement. I have put so much into DW whether it being advice, pm'ing people for support and advice, write ups, etc etc and I feel deflated and quite upset (Not crying upset just feel low)

I am always on hand to help anybody and when I get the new section uploaded on here I can be nothing but open and clear on anything I get asked

If I was to post too much, it just wouldn't be cricket and fair on the traders and Manufacturers that are actively paying for the right to comment.

Just don't know what i've done to deserve a bashing when I'm not even selling on here yet


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## Tazz (Aug 23, 2010)

lets look at it a different way

supermarkets, say theres a big supermaket opposite your house, then someone decides to open up a little mini mart next door to it, you might pop in and see what they have on offer, and that little shop might gain a few regulars who will only be friends and family to save face, but you really know that the supermarket will have more of what you want at a cheaper price, as it will of done the research into what products sell best in that area to the local community

its like shops going to costco, when if you have a trade card, you can go there yourself!

i bet the directors at the big brands sit down in the board room every week with there earl grey tea and custard creams and laugh at the smaller companies starting up, "oh here we go again, another one!"

EDIT: all im saying is, whens it going to end, when will too many brands be enough? is 50+ already not enough?


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

my point was not to say that I would ask for them but the point being that whilst Joe Bloggs is ordering from Concours Car Care they are ordering from a retailers perspective, an on line sale....so what is the difference with any other online sale....as it seems that Lee has been targeted for not handing out MSDS sheets willy nilly to folk purchasing off his website....

Now if i had NO intention of making money from his products the MSDS sheet wouldnt bother me as long as all relevant information was provided on the bottle...as with those in stores....if you see where i am coming from....

I have products sat doing nothing and dont use them so why would i want a data sheet....I have all the sheets i need including Zaino, which was a hard enough task but I got there in the end....

but this is going round in circles and I am sure that when the time comes all information will be divulged...any whoo I know what his warranty covers as i have seen it....

someone also mentioned a very highly regarded product in here with reards to them being open about their products with all the information you need regarding it....but failed in one statement by not saying who's product it actually was....can of worms....end conversation....


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## Tiptronic (May 9, 2006)

Concours CC said:


> All I have to say is this
> 
> For some reason I am being dragged over hot coals here and to say i'm dissappointed is an understatement. I have put so much into DW whether it being advice, pm'ing people for support and advice, write ups, etc etc and I feel deflated and quite upset (Not crying upset just feel low)
> 
> ...


Great, so instead of applauding people for coming into the marketplace with excellent, well-formulated products, people seem to have taken it upon themselves to lambast new developments unless it's from the 'established' names. 

And that's before Concours is on here as a manufacturer, where more information could be made available to those who are *genuinely* interested. 

Lee, keep on going mate. Your products are looking excellent, and hope the dealer thing really works out for you. :thumb:


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

Concours CC said:


> All I have to say is this
> 
> For some reason I am being dragged over hot coals here and to say i'm dissappointed is an understatement. I have put so much into DW whether it being advice, pm'ing people for support and advice, write ups, etc etc and I feel deflated and quite upset (Not crying upset just feel low)
> 
> ...


On the flip-side Lee. I just want to say thanks for the in-depth conversation we had a while back about your up and coming products. and also for the advice you gave me. I know personally that you're happy to divulge any info about your products and you were a pleasure to deal with. After xmas I would be more than happy to complete the invoice we talked about :thumb: keep up the good work.


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## Smurf. (Nov 22, 2011)

Tiptronic said:


> I hope you don't mind me asking but......
> 
> What was the purpose of your question? Was it actual interest in the product, or was it for another reason?
> 
> ...


Honestly; I wanted to know what the warranty covered .... other manufacturers that are selling ceramic sealants clearly state what is covered and are underwritten insurance wise should the product not do what they state it will ...

Lee; if this has upset you then for that I apologise but at the end of the day business is business if it upsets you then maybe your in the wrong line of work ... you should read what has been said, take it in and act upon it for the better in the future ... what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.


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## Tiptronic (May 9, 2006)

Smurf. said:


> Lee; if this has upset you then for that I apologise but at the end of the day business is business if it upsets you then maybe your in the wrong line of work ... you should read what has been said, take it in and act upon it for the better in the future ... what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.


I think it would have been better if you had said nothing than said that

That is all


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

No Smurf

I think you should seriously wind it in now mate - Your insulting patronising posts are making the thread go OT.

You clearly have no idea what kind of bloke you're talking to behind the screen. Im dissappointed that i've been dragged into it is what i'm saying


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

woa! whats happened to this thread :doublesho


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## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

Smurf. said:


> Honestly; I wanted to know what the warranty covered .... other manufacturers that are selling ceramic sealants clearly state what is covered and are underwritten insurance wise should the product not do what they state it will ...
> 
> Lee; if this has upset you then for that I apologise but at the end of the day business is business if it upsets you then maybe your in the wrong line of work ... you should read what has been said, take it in and act upon it for the better in the future ... what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.


hit the thanks button by mistake :wall:

have you not read the bit about him not allowed to post too much info on his products until he gets authurised to do so ?

if owt it seems like you have got something to lose as you are forever having cheap sly digs at Lee which are not called for and this isn`t the 1st time is it . 
and before you ask no i don`t know him , never met him , don`t owe him anything at all but i have seen how he has helped others in the way of advice ect


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Just a quick note.

To all concerned.

WHEN I am on as an official manufacturer all details you want will be available including the warranty info that some are SO KEEN to see :thumb:

We have nothing to hide but as were not yet official on here I cant post it - It is that simple :lol: Nothing else.

Keep an eye out after xmas. 

Clarity is my middle name.

As Bannatyne says - IM OOT


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Smurf. said:


> If you read earlier posts you would see that trade and retail products are labelled differently ... my point is that certain products are being sold to retail when the contents of such products should only be available for trade use.
> 
> For instance; G101 is not available to Joe bloggs on the streets as its contents are classed as hazardous, it cannot be shipped unless a licensed carrier handles it, yet some people think it's ok for them to decant it in to a 500ml bottle not fit for purpose and call it there own then sell it on ....
> 
> Russ, my original questions had nothing to do with dealerships  ... I was asking what the warranty covers and was not given any answer ... all the other ceramic sealant manufacturers clearly state what their warranty covers plain as day on their website; GTechniq, Williams to name a couple ...


g101 might be hazardous in 25 litre drums but in the conventional 5 litre tubs it falls under limited quantities for road transport and anyone can carry it.


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## stuart5760 (Jan 22, 2008)

Concours CC said:


> All I have to say is this
> 
> For some reason I am being dragged over hot coals here and to say i'm dissappointed is an understatement. I have put so much into DW whether it being advice, pm'ing people for support and advice, write ups, etc etc and I feel deflated and quite upset (Not crying upset just feel low)
> 
> ...


I seem to have lost the context of this thread but having just placed an order through Lee at Concours Car Care, based on the following reasons.
1 The product meets my needs and price bracket
2 Lee has assisted me through pm's before on totally unrelated issues and am more than happy to deal with him due to this.
3 I appreciate all the time and money that goes into producing / marketing / selling these goods.
4 I get their product / advice without any BS

Apologies for taking this thread off topic but sometimes things need to be said.


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

dwmc said:


> hit the thanks button by mistake :wall:
> 
> have you not read the bit about him not allowed to post too much info on his products until he gets authurised to do so ?
> 
> ...


Which is what a few people think. Give it up smurf, it's boring now we get the point that you like the full background of anything and everything that may or may not come into existence.


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

The master has spoken - we've done here.

(that's me in case anyone didn't know ).


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