# Car security - Am I crazy has anyone done the same



## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

Some of you may have seen my various post that I am looing at a new car. My wish list seems best matched by either a pre-reg VW Arteon 280 BHP petrol or a 12-18 month old Audi S4 Avant. I know they seem very different cars but my extensive research had lead to these two. For me I have always dreamed of owning an S4 but there is one thing putting me off. There have been threads on here and other motoring forums about cars like S4's golf R's BMW's etc being stolen to order and thieves targeting specific cars and either breaking into the houses for keys or mugging the owner. We are fortunate enough to live in a pretty quiet nice village and the car will be in a secure car park with barrier during the day half the time. My wife will drive the car as much as me and often works late at her work (normal car park no security) where she would be in a quiet secluded car park sometime in the dark when she leaves. So despite this being my realistic dream car I don't want to put my wife or family at risk by owning one and would therefore rather have a more standard car than risk that. As S4's are often criticised for looking boring and understated I though to myself, I'm not really bothered about the look of the car for me its the interior, safety, practicality and most important the performance and stability of AWD so why not remove all the S4 and Quattro badges and stick on a TDi badge? The s4 badging on the wings can be swapped for s-line ones and further add to the stealth look of the car. Am I crazy or have people actually done something like this?? I know there would still be 4 exhausts out the back and the rear bumper with diffuser but I just though if it raised doubt and made a thief walk by and leave it alone thinking it was a TDI with an S4 bumper that would do the trick.

As another thought are there any other practical steps to protect my family and car? I've recently upgraded the locks on the house.


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

It is a sad state of affairs that such measures even have to be taken into consideration but such are the times we live in. As far as the security of the car itself goes there is nothing you can do to stop it being taken, but you can slow them down and the longer it takes them the greater the risk and the less likely they are to chance it. Keep car keys somewhere unorthodox where they are unlikely to be found, be especially vigilant with keys when you are out or not at home, and then physically secure the car with visible deterrents such as wheel clamps and steering locks. A gated car park is good but even the best padlock won’t last long against bolt cutters or a cordless angle grinder. 

The risk of the car or keys being taken by force is another matter and in such circumstances the advice is simply to cooperate fully and hand them over with no resistance, as abhorrent as that may sound, you have to bear in mind that your wife’s or your own safety is far more important than any car. 

I read a Facebook post just two days ago where a gang took a local Focus ST, when they were discovered in the act by a neighbour she was threatened with a cordless angle grinder which was then demonstrated on the other two cars parked there, so the car was taken anyway, two further cars were significantly damaged and a young woman was threatened with serious violence and was understandably shaken. These people do not consider the consequences of their actions, either for themselves or for their victims, so unless you are prepared to do the same, which I would hope as a rational and decent human being, as opposed to pond scum, you are not.


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## Mikesphotaes (Jul 24, 2016)

Fit a tracker and enjoy whatever car you buy!


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Mikesphotaes said:


> Fit a tracker and enjoy whatever car you buy!


Which doesn't solve the fact that someone may break into your house to get the keys to your car whilst your family is upstairs asleep!


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

Mcpx said:


> It is a sad state of affairs that such measures even have to be taken into consideration but such are the times we live in.


On the contrary, car crime is the lowest it's ever been...

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...cles/overviewofvehiclerelatedtheft/2017-07-20

You need to remember that we are all active members of car forums where we are more exposed to stories of car theft. This creates the bus perception that it is very prominent, but the reality is very different. We are just more heavily exposed to it.

The truth is the statistics tells us that theft of even the most stolen cars, like the Audi S3, still account for less than 1% of all the Audi S3's on the road. I'm 2015 the incidence of S3s stolen was 8.6 per 1000. There were approximately 6,000 S3s registered on the road during 2015, so of the 6,000 S3s that were at risk of being stolen, about 52, on average, were stolen. That's just 0.86%.

I would challenge your perception of the risk involved before drawing and conclusions. By all means, take into account your area and taking all precautions to protect yourself is never a bad thing!

Personally, get the S4 and enjoy it. Get GAP insurance to cover the economic cost of theft and secure your home the best you can.


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## voon (Apr 28, 2010)

I wouldn't call an Arteon a family car .. these low swung coupes look nice, but the backseats tend to be only for small people and compared to an avant, storage options are limited.

If you like that style of car, I'd also look at the new Kia Stinger - a fnatastic offer among the GT cars, but also not really a family car.


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

ardandy said:


> Which doesn't solve the fact that someone may break into your house to get the keys to your car whilst your family is upstairs asleep!


and then you get your car back after its been rallied over the fields and kerbs and had a shoddy respray to repair it

is rather it stay gone if its stolen


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

DrEskimo said:


> On the contrary, car crime is the lowest it's ever been...
> 
> https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...cles/overviewofvehiclerelatedtheft/2017-07-20
> 
> ...


Arrr the good Dr comes in with another level headed and totally rational post. Thanks


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

this may sound OTT but consider a tracker plus an ODB port blocker, dash cam and outside wireless CCTV and enjoy the car of your dreams. you don't want to look back in your old age regretting not owning one. I say go for it. I have an M2 and to me it's my dream car apart from a super car which I'll never afford in a million years and my M2 is as well protected as it will ever be.


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

i


voon said:


> I wouldn't call an Arteon a family car .. these low swung coupes look nice, but the backseats tend to be only for small people and compared to an avant, storage options are limited.
> 
> If you like that style of car, I'd also look at the new Kia Stinger - a fnatastic offer among the GT cars, but also not really a family car.


It definitely is mate. The car is huge its way bigger than the S4 Avant and Kia stinger which I actually test drove at the weekend! Yes the rear head room is compromised but with a 5 and 8 year old it wont be an issue and in any case my 6 foot body fitted with no issue and loads of knee room with the seat in front also set up for me.

The stinger was a surprising car but £42,000 for a Kia seemed a huge amount of money even with all the tech included. It was fast but I wasn't sure about the pedal feel and gear box and also the rear wheel drive is not something I personally would consider in a car with that much power. It may come to the UK in AWD form according to the sales man. What is it with powerful cars only coming as rwd in the UK with certain car brands?


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## cossiecol (Jun 29, 2014)

Personally I would de-badge it, fit a tracker, OBD port blocker and keep the keys in a faraday bag.

What to keep in mind (and it goes for anything not just a car) is that if someone wants to take something they'll find a way to do it. However if you make it difficult for them they may look somewhere else.


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

cossiecol said:


> Personally I would de-badge it, fit a tracker, OBD port blocker and keep the keys in a faraday bag.
> 
> What to keep in mind (and it goes for anything not just a car) is that if someone wants to take something they'll find a way to do it. However if you make it difficult for them they may look somewhere else.


Ill have to look into OBD port blockers I've not heard of them before. Thanks for your input.


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Just make sure your house is secure, that's how they took my GTI.


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

Mikesphotaes said:


> Fit a tracker and enjoy whatever car you buy!


Correct. You can't live your life based on the thoughts of "what might happen" I am picking up my new RS3 saloon this weekend, and plan on enjoying it.

I have a family and another one due the 10th January.

There will always be good and bad people in the world, NEVER dilute your life for fear of something being taken from you.

Live hard, live well x


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## Mattwilko92 (Aug 4, 2008)

I've thought long and hard about this subject. I own a Golf GTi which are a target (maybe not as much as the R, but still a target). The paranoia is something I share. But I have now put measures in place and I'm slowly getting better.

First of all whatever home security you put in place, make sure if the scumbags get in your house, they can grab the keys easily without having to come upstairs. The last thing you want is them coming up stairs and threatening you or family. Doesn't matter how 'hard' you are, it will leave scars in yours and your families head.

A tracker is commonly recommended, but in reality, they steal your car and park it up for a few days to see if one is fitted. By this time they have probably thrashed your car and messed up the interior etc. Would you really want it back?

Home security is paramount here. Make it a challenge for them. By far the best solution is parking your car in the garage. Out of sight out of mind. Secondly a house alarm - I would say 90% of thieves don't want to be heard. Good security lighting outside is also important as they don't want to be seen. CCTV is a deterrent but i'm not sold on it, they'll often just wear a black hoodie / mask etc.

If you have euro cylinder locks, change them for anti snap type - ABS are recommended. Sash jammers on patio doors and windows will also make it difficult for them to get in.

A dog with a good bark is a good measure.

Last but not least, make sure all doors and windows are locked at night and your alarm armed. You wouldn't believe the amount of people that don't do this.

Hope this helps and remember if you don't own the car you want because you're worried - then they've won already.


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## bradleymarky (Nov 29, 2013)

The answer is simple if you dont want anybody coming into your house to steal your prized possession.....get a big dog.


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

bradleymarky said:


> get a big Dog.


yeah one that can put out fires :thumb:


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

steveo3002 said:


> yeah one that can put out fires :thumb:


Billy Connolly ? lol :thumb:


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

bradleymarky said:


> The answer is simple if you dont want anybody coming into your house to steal your prized possession.....get a big dog.


My wife's parents had a big dog (16 stone bull mastiff) and two fellows still broke in and left with a sum of money after threatening them with knives and a boiling kettle. A dog wont stop anyone if they are determined to get something.


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

they'l just wait till your wife is unloading the shopping on the drive and threaten with a knife or hammer


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

So we have a Border Collie, I fitted upgraded ABS anti pick anti snap locks 6 months ago. We have security at the side of the house where the cars are parked. I've thought about CCTV but it could highlight that I have something worth taking? and usually thieves wear hoodies etc to cover up.

Your right guys in you comments I guess its a case of be sensible take precautions but don't let it take over your life with worry.


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## pez (Jun 7, 2014)

What about something like Clifford's blackjax? It let's the thief drive off to a safe distance and then pulses down the fuel injectors and then sets the the siren and lights off. I'm a big fan of visual deterrents such as steering wheel locks and pir lights, but sometimes you need something inconspicuous.

A faraday bag/cage is a good call as well


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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

Ghost Autowatch - won't allow the car to start, and if you're car jacked, will stop the car 30 seconds after the drivers door is opened (configurable). Lots of videos on youtube - here's a couple











Get key protection on your insurance in case you need to change the locks (if your key is stolen) to have full coverage.


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## Sam6er (Apr 3, 2016)

Aren't most of these issues due to keyless entry. Seems to be the best solution is buy a car without keyless entry (comfort access). I may be mistaken though.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I wouldn't want a car back that had been stolen and ragged personally. I would hope they torched it before the police found it.

That said, I would not let fear of theft put me off owning anything.

Get good locks fitted to your doors, and garage the car each night, off the road.

If you live in a quiet village I can't see organised criminals will ever venture that far from home. Block it in with another car.

Tell your wife to keep a can of hairspray in her handbag and park it in well lit sections of car park, as close to the front door of her work as possible. I am sure that if she asked a couple of male colleagues would escort her to the car if she was that concerned.


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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

If we worried about what may happen in life no one would leave the house. You only live once. Work hard play hard. 

I had a system in the gtr where you pushed buttons on the steering wheel and this acted as an immobiliser so even if keys got taken they couldn't start the car without pressing the right sequence of volume up down cruise control buttons


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

DrEskimo said:


> On the contrary, car crime is the lowest it's ever been...
> 
> https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...cles/overviewofvehiclerelatedtheft/2017-07-20
> 
> ...


I'll need to read that later on. There was a lot made about car crime had risen by 30% in the last 3/4 years elsewhere.

There's about 20,000 Audi S3s on the road.


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Mikesphotaes said:


> Fit a tracker and enjoy whatever car you buy!


Fitting a tracker doesn't stop it getting stolen tho'

After seeing first hand, on too many occasions in my retired from occupation, how car thieves drive a stolen car, I do not, under any circumstances, want my car back if it gets stolen

Get a Disklok & a decent GAP policy is my advice


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## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

cossiecol said:


> Personally I would de-badge it, fit a tracker, OBD port blocker and keep the keys in a faraday bag.
> 
> What to keep in mind (and it goes for anything not just a car) is that if someone wants to take something they'll find a way to do it. However if you make it difficult for them they may look somewhere else.


Debadging is helpful (just done it myself) for any chancers on the day but thanks to everybody knowing everybody's business you can get the model variant in seconds on your phone...get a quote for car parts on ECP etc.

The OBD weakness seems a big issue and for the first time ever I'm nervy about my car going missing. Steering lock and another little trick I won't make public means I reckon I'll have a chance of getting out onto the drive before they leave and I'd look to put the windscreen through.

Electrics keep going in my house so I obviously have to have a 6D Maglite by the side of the bed.


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

MDC250 said:


> Debadging is helpful (just done it myself) for any chancers on the day but thanks to everybody knowing everybody's business you can get the model variant in seconds on your phone...get a quote for car parts on ECP etc.
> 
> The OBD weakness seems a big issue and for the first time ever I'm nervy about my car going missing. Steering lock and another little trick I won't make public means I reckon I'll have a chance of getting out onto the drive before they leave and I'd look to put the windscreen through.
> 
> Electrics keep going in my house so I obviously have to have a 6D Maglite by the side of the bed.


For me I don't care about the scum taking the car its the personal security of my family I'm concerned about. If the worst happens they are welcome to the car as long as my family are not put in harms way. Out of interest why put the screen in?


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## pez (Jun 7, 2014)

A couple of resons I guess it makes it an distinguishable feature for the coppers to see, I know we all have number plates but a computer can only process information at a certain rate it's easy to spot a smashed windscreen, it also makes it harder to see out off, and also harder to sell if that's what they want it for.

@mdc250 I can imagine you could do some damage with that torch, I have a klarus rs18 with a glass breaker in my go bag under the bed


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## President Swirl (Oct 23, 2011)

Sorry steveo, didn't mean to thumb up a comment about violence. My sausage thumb clicked the "thanks" button instead of the next page. The point you make is sad but true. There are plenty of people out there who feel no pity or remorse. Almost barbarian like, and seem a few centuries behind evolution. I'd love an R32 or something tasty, but my arms are reserved for multiple tats, not bruises.


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## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

pez said:


> A couple of resons I guess it makes it an distinguishable feature for the coppers to see, I know we all have number plates but a computer can only process information at a certain rate it's easy to spot a smashed windscreen, it also makes it harder to see out off, and also harder to sell if that's what they want it for.
> 
> @mdc250 I can imagine you could do some damage with that torch, I have a klarus rs18 with a glass breaker in my go bag under the bed


Exactly that, won't get very far if they can't see and the cops would spot it a mile off.

Yes the beam is very bright on the torch; I couldn't possibly imagine what a heavy object could otherwise be used for


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## pez (Jun 7, 2014)

Well you went to check on what that noise was so you grabbed your trusty touch, and when you were met with someone braking into you pride and joy you used what was to hand at the time. Just remembered in the UK you can't have any "weapons" in preparation for a home intruder


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## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

pez said:


> Well you went to check on what that noise was so you grabbed your trusty touch, and when you were met with someone braking into you pride and joy you used what was to hand at the time. Just remembered in the UK you can't have any "weapons" in preparation for a home intruder


I also sleep walk


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I think taking a torch outside to investigate a disturbance would look 'ok' in court.

Taking a baseball bat, golf club or 12 bore is another matter.

Smashing the windscreen could make it quite hard to drive, it would be instantly recognisable by police (they will not care 2 hoots anyway if they even bother to respond), might even scare the hell out of the thieves.

Very few car thieves are going to want to enter your property and venture upstairs in the dead of night, there is a difference between theft and assault.


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

Tbh putting a TDi badge on won’t stop anyone. Cars are quite often stolen to be broken up so the bumpers and quad exhaust will be high on wish list for anyone nicking one so I’d not fuss. I have an SQ5 and it now has a tracker and OBD relocate kit. If my wife were to be mugged for the keys she would just let the muggers have the key. The thing I have instilled in her is to keep her house keys on one key ring and the car fob on another so as A) the keys don’t bash against the dash and and scratch it (have had keys to the left of the steering wheel for years so this is now well and truly habit) and B) if muggers want the car, just chuck them the one fob and not the rest of the keys to the house etc. I’d buy what you want and let the thought slip away. It’s a small risk in reality.


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## packard (Jun 8, 2009)

I would take out GAP insurance (loads of good deals on web)' consider tracker and like everyone says enjoy !


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## pez (Jun 7, 2014)

ollienoclue said:


> I think taking a torch outside to investigate a disturbance would look 'ok' in court.
> 
> Taking a baseball bat, golf club or 12 bore is another matter.
> 
> ...


A quick look in the gov website says you can use "reasonable force" to protect your property. It also says that you can't use traps in preparation of an intruder. As there is no specifics on what is "reasonable force" people will interpret this differently.

However if you play baseball then I would stand to reason that you would have a baseball bat at home. Same as the golf club if you are a keen golfer. A 12 gauge might be harder to justify as they need to be kept in a safe with the shells stored separately.

I know this is off topic as you said there is a difference between car theft, braking and entering or in the worst case assault.

https://www.gov.uk/reasonable-force-against-intruders

Link to the gov site if anyone want some reading material


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

pez said:


> A quick look in the gov website says you can use "reasonable force" to protect your property. It also says that you can't use traps in preparation of an intruder. As there is no specifics on what is "reasonable force" people will interpret this differently.
> 
> However if you play baseball then I would stand to reason that you would have a baseball bat at home. Same as the golf club if you are a keen golfer. A 12 gauge might be harder to justify as they need to be kept in a safe with the shells stored separately.
> 
> ...


I asked a police SGT last night of the same thing. "Legally what can we do to defend ourselves and our property"

He said reasonable force, what a jury (normal public) think is reasonable and if you felt that you were likely to be potentially killed, then deadly force is acceptable.

You just need to persuade the court that's all.


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## pxr5 (Feb 13, 2012)

MDC250 said:


> Electrics keep going in my house so I obviously have to have a 6D Maglite by the side of the bed.


What a coincindence, so does mine - same torch too ;-)


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## pez (Jun 7, 2014)

It mentions that in the link on the gov website it goes into what is classed as reasonable or unreasonable force. 
However this is still only guide lines. as there are no clear cut rules on home defense only opinions, and when you're in the heat of the moment and the adrenaline kicks in even your own opinion can change


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

pez said:


> It mentions that in the link on the gov website it goes into what is classed as reasonable or unreasonable force.
> However this is still only guide lines. as there are no clear cut rules on home defense only opinions, and when you're in the heat of the moment and the adrenaline kicks in even your own opinion can change


Yeah for example if you gave him a good bleaching that he was incapacitated and lying ****ing on the floor, then theres no need to keep battering them and / or going to get a boiling kettle just to teach a lesson. lol


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