# What's a good engine...?



## Bezza (Oct 6, 2010)

Hi all, i'm just curious as to what you think is a 'good' engine. 
By good I mean, generally reliable, decent power, economy and emissions, less faults than other engines? You know a 'good' engine.

Whenever I have been interested in a car I do a lot of research on forums etc to find out what people think about it, but inevitably there's loads of 'common faults' and horror stories. 
Now i'm not too naive to think that there's a perfect engine type out there, and I know with research inevitably there will be lots of negatives. 

In the past I have researched Vauxhalls 1.9CDTi, Fords 2.2 TDCi, Peugeots 2.0HDi engines, VAG 1.8T, Mondeo's 3.0 V6 there's been lots of "stay away from this car" type responses. Even the 1.6 Turbo engine I eventually went for has a reputation...

So in your opinion, what's a decent engine?


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## hibberd (Jul 5, 2006)

The 1.9 TDI VAG engine is supposedly one of the best and most reliable around


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## Bezza (Oct 6, 2010)

hibberd said:


> The 1.9 TDI VAG engine is supposedly one of the best and most reliable around


It does seem as if older diesel engines had less troubles than modern ones with EGR, DMF, Flywheel issues etc.


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## nitro68 (Mar 18, 2010)

Bezza said:


> It does seem as if older diesel engines had less troubles than modern ones with EGR, DMF, Flywheel issues etc.


Yes, the first serie 2.0TDI.
balance axels, oilpump issues upto half 2006, then this was modified from a chain to gears.
Sometimes the fuel-vacuum pump starts to leak and can screwup your oil quality. (same thing in the 1.9)
170hp has the crappy siemens injectors, pain in the butt.
They die from one second to the other, replacement is a warranty issue within certain limits.


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

Right, people are going to string me up here!

BUT, i think the z12xe is pretty good! ONLY because, i had one for 3 years as a first car in a corsa, it got hammered, hammered, hammered & look at how many other boy racers do the same!
And i didnt have one problem with mine! Just thought i'd put it out there


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## JBirchy (Oct 9, 2010)

For me a decent engine is something that is easy to drive, has a nice torque curve and provides power in the right places. Unfortunately in these times, economy is an issue, but for me it's only down to the price of fuel. If I could afford to, i wouldn't even let the economy side enter my head.

For me, two of the best engines i've owned are the Alfa Romeo 2.0 T.Spark engine in my 156, and the VAG 2.0T FSI engine in my Mk5 Golf GTI. The latter was so easy to drive, pulled in all gears and was fairly economical at 32mpg.

Without doubt the best engine in terms of effortless performance that i've had the pleasure of driving is the 5.0 V10 in a friends E60 M5. Stunning, power, noise flexibility, the way it revs like a bike, it's awesome! Certainly not economical though...

I don't like diesels really, but I really do think the best of the bunch these days is the twin turbo lump that BMW make. My girlfriends Dad had a 535d and then a 635d and apart from at idle, you really couldnt tell it was an oil burner. It was extremely powerful, flexible, it even sounded gruff and certainly not like a tractor, and he was getting 36-38mpg from it!


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

I think many modern four pot diesels suffer from issues.

Agree with the BMW 35d unit comments above though 

However BMW petrols seem to be having a bit of a bad run at the moment - I would avoid any BM with the 20i engine at ALL costs and the 35i unit, while very sweet, has a habit of blowing up fuel pumps.

Subaru flat four is a good solid unit, Porkers six is superb too.


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## JBirchy (Oct 9, 2010)

335dAND110XS said:


> I think many modern four pot diesels suffer from issues.
> 
> Agree with the BMW 35d unit comments above though


I agree - finances currently mean i have a 2007 1.9 TDI Fiat Bravo and its appalling. The power delivery is outrageous and it has the responses of a dead elephant.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Birchy- might be the same unit as my old 1.9CTI Astra (the 150bhp one)? It was a Fiat/GM sourced motor.


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## Maggi200 (Aug 21, 2009)

Surely k20 honda engine has to be up there...?


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## JBirchy (Oct 9, 2010)

335dAND110XS said:


> Birchy- might be the same unit as my old 1.9CTI Astra (the 150bhp one)? It was a Fiat/GM sourced motor.


Don't know, this one in my Bravo only has 120bhp... Shocking!


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## Bezza (Oct 6, 2010)

davies20 said:


> Right, people are going to string me up here!
> 
> BUT, i think the z12xe is pretty good! ONLY because, i had one for 3 years as a first car in a corsa, it got hammered, hammered, hammered & look at how many other boy racers do the same!
> And i didnt have one problem with mine! Just thought i'd put it out there


Don't worry, its a fair point. Simple engines do seem to have less issues. And you're right, I can't remember hearing many problems with 1.2 Vauxhall engines.


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## Bezza (Oct 6, 2010)

JBirchy said:


> For me a decent engine is something that is easy to drive, has a nice torque curve and provides power in the right places. Unfortunately in these times, economy is an issue, but for me it's only down to the price of fuel. If I could afford to, i wouldn't even let the economy side enter my head.
> 
> For me, two of the best engines i've owned are the Alfa Romeo 2.0 T.Spark engine in my 156, and the VAG 2.0T FSI engine in my Mk5 Golf GTI. The latter was so easy to drive, pulled in all gears and was fairly economical at 32mpg.
> 
> ...


Thats a good point also, unfortunately economy has too big a role to play in deciding this kind of thing. 
I would love to have the 5.5 Supercharged V8 from the Mercedes AMG55 for the noise (that Supercharger whine) and power, I have a friend who has a Mercedes CLS AMG55 - gorgeous. 
But more realistically I would be happy with the VAG 2.0T engine, my boss has this in his Audi TT, it seems a good balance of economy power and smooth driving.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

JBirchy said:


> Don't know, this one in my Bravo only has 120bhp... Shocking!


Might be similar - Vx also do a 120bhp and 150bhp version as do Fiat, Alfa and Saab - all more or less the same engine.

Doesn't sound like you're all that impressed?!

I found the 150bhp unit in the Astra okay - more refined than the VAG 1.9TDI with a slightly broader (but still very narrow) power band. But swirl flap failure at 38k miles (under warranty luckily) was NOT good and the service from Vx was so appalling, I will never own one ever again.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Volvo T5 for fun, D5 for economy. Very underrated engines. Not without their issues, but never really any major scare stories.


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## Bezza (Oct 6, 2010)

335dAND110XS said:


> I think many modern four pot diesels suffer from issues.





335dAND110XS said:


> Might be similar - Vx also do a 120bhp and 150bhp version as do Fiat, Alfa and Saab - all more or less the same engine.
> 
> Doesn't sound like you're all that impressed?!
> 
> I found the 150bhp unit in the Astra okay - more refined than the VAG 1.9TDI with a slightly broader (but still very narrow) power band. But swirl flap failure at 38k miles (under warranty luckily) was NOT good and the service from Vx was so appalling, I will never own one ever again.


When I was looking for an Astra, I was warned away from the 1.9CDTi's. People on astraownersnetwork.co.uk said the 120bhp was better than the 150 although it had the same engine, it didn't have the swirl flaps which failed a lot.
But even so newer 4 cylinder diesels with their diesel particulate filters and EGR valves seem to get clogged up and fail more often than not.
Its really put me off buying a diesel car in the past few years.


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

JBirchy said:


> Don't know, this one in my Bravo only has 120bhp... Shocking!


Same engine i've got in the vectra - i dont think its that bad!

Apart from the stupidly narrow power band!


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Bezza said:


> When I was looking for an Astra, I was warned away from the 1.9CDTi's. People on astraownersnetwork.co.uk said the 120bhp was better than the 150 although it had the same engine, it didn't have the swirl flaps which failed a lot.
> But even so newer 4 cylinder diesels with their diesel particulate filters and EGR valves seem to get clogged up and fail more often than not.
> Its really put me off buying a diesel car in the past few years.


We bought ours pretty much when they came out so didn't have time to gain any reliability stories but that swirl flap failure was pretty terrible - had the car not been under warranty, it would have cost us a fortune.

It's a tough one really - our Landy is a four pot diesel but it's a pretty rock solid Ford Transit engine so generally okay for reliability but it sounds grim!

If I was buying a four pot diesel in a new car I'd only really look at the Volvo 2.0D, the BMW 120d and 120d/320d and that's about it. VAG, Ford, Vx, anything French and Italian, etc all seem to make exploding 4 potters.

Fortunately six pots diesels seem to be a lot more solid for some odd reason.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Volvo 2.0D is the Ford/PSA 2.0D, so it's got the same popping issues. Buying new, the 2-litre is D3 or D4, and both are 5-cylinder. And very, very pokey for their claimed numbers!


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

In all fairness most engines are reliable, when you research on the net all you're going to find is the "I've got a problem" threads, nobody ever just posts a thread saying "'I've had my car and done 100K in it without a fault". The Ford tdci motor is a good engine to drive but not own as the injectors are a ticking time bomb, the GM/Fiat CDTI is ok apart from being underpowered (the 8V 120bhp is the best one). If you want a good reliable engine look no further than the Duratec/MZR series from Ford/Mazda, reliable, lightweight, decent noise considering, mahoosive tuning potential and cheap.


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## Bezza (Oct 6, 2010)

OvlovMike said:


> Volvo T5 for fun, D5 for economy. Very underrated engines. Not without their issues, but never really any major scare stories.


Agreed, I love Volvo T5 and D5 engines, very underrated. I would have either of them.



335dAND110XS said:


> It's a tough one really - our Landy is a four pot diesel but it's a pretty rock solid Ford Transit engine so generally okay for reliability but it sounds grim!
> 
> If I was buying a four pot diesel in a new car I'd only really look at the Volvo 2.0D, the BMW 120d and 120d/320d and that's about it. VAG, Ford, Vx, anything French and Italian, etc all seem to make exploding 4 potters.
> 
> Fortunately six pots diesels seem to be a lot more solid for some odd reason.


True, I had the horrible experience of owning a 2.0HDi in a Peugeot 206. Admittedly it was a good engine while it worked, but once it started to go wrong it quickly turned into a nightmare. 
Five and six cylinder diesels do seem better for some reason.
And i'm not surprised the old Diesel in the Defender is a good one, it'll probably go on forever! Those old back to basics engines make the tat they put in modern eco-boxes seem limp wristed and half hearted.



OvlovMike said:


> Volvo 2.0D is the Ford/PSA 2.0D, so it's got the same popping issues. Buying new, the 2-litre is D3 or D4, and both are 5-cylinder. And very, very pokey for their claimed numbers!


Volvo's 2.0D is the Ford TDCi engine. I was behind a V50 yesterday with a 'D2' badge, obviously someone with a 2.0Diesel who wanted to be part of the D3/4/5 family! Bless.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

OvlovMike said:


> Volvo 2.0D is the Ford/PSA 2.0D, so it's got the same popping issues. Buying new, the 2-litre is D3 or D4, and both are 5-cylinder. And very, very pokey for their claimed numbers!


I saw a C30 D3 today with twin pipes and flashy wheels - I did wonder what unit that was.

Of course I flashed him my twin pipes further down the road


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## JBirchy (Oct 9, 2010)

335dAND110XS said:


> Might be similar - Vx also do a 120bhp and 150bhp version as do Fiat, Alfa and Saab - all more or less the same engine.
> 
> Doesn't sound like you're all that impressed?!
> 
> I found the 150bhp unit in the Astra okay - more refined than the VAG 1.9TDI with a slightly broader (but still very narrow) power band. But swirl flap failure at 38k miles (under warranty luckily) was NOT good and the service from Vx was so appalling, I will never own one ever again.





davies20 said:


> Same engine i've got in the vectra - i dont think its that bad!
> 
> Apart from the stupidly narrow power band!


Not impressed with it at all. The speed of response is ridiculous which means if you try to set off in a hurry, it will stall. The way to get around it is to plant your foot on the throttle about a second before you bring the clutch up, only then will the engine speed be about right for setting off.

And yes the power band is very narrow. I find it's not a 'nice' engine to drive quickly because of it. Plus i think it really does sound like a diesel, very loud and clattery.

Its best trait is that its very good at motorway speeds. There's not much engine noise and in 5th gear in my Bravo (its only a 5spd) it happens to be in the power band between 65-80mph which is great for overtaking.

If anyone wants it it's on Autotrader!


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Birchy - what's next if you manage to flog the Fiat?


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Bezza said:


> Volvo's 2.0D is the Ford TDCi engine. I was behind a V50 yesterday with a 'D2' badge, obviously someone with a 2.0Diesel who wanted to be part of the D3/4/5 family! Bless.


D2 is the 1.6 4-pot. He's not trying anything, that's just what it is. 8v 1.6D 4-pot with 6 gears... Although I can't help but feel they'd have been better just cutting a hole in the floor (sorry Ninja!)


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

335dAND110XS said:


> I saw a C30 D3 today with twin pipes and flashy wheels - I did wonder what unit that was.
> 
> Of course I flashed him my twin pipes further down the road


I thought the D3 still only got one poo-shooter.

Still a very pokey engine for a 2litre, think it's got a shedload of torque for it's 150bhp. Made me jump when I put my foot down, I wasn't expecting it!


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

As alluded to, surely the Honda VTEC lumps in various sizes deserve a mention.

I've always been impressed with the Ford Sigma engine that runs in sizes 1.25-1.7l in Fiestas, Pumas, and certain low end Mondies and Focus'.

(OK, I'm biased, having had two fords with them in). But they're light, mine have been fairly reliable, and nippy! They're selling Catarham 7's with the tuned 1.6 lump now.

The old Vauxhall 2.0 petrols used to be good before that "Ecotec" nonsense. That's not really a modern car though.

Agree with mike on the 5 cylinder petrol and deisels from Ford/Volvo.

Plus the Vag 2lt Turbo.

Rover V8 always seemed to be emminently adaptable - if in low power forms.

Looking fowards: How about the Vag 1.4 TSIs you see everywhere these days? Much reliability reports back on those? These smaller turbocharged units seem to be the thing of the future. Likewise, the BMW diesels won a lot of awards recently.

Hoping the ford 1.6 ecoboost turns out OK.


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## Bezza (Oct 6, 2010)

OvlovMike said:


> D2 is the 1.6 4-pot. He's not trying anything, that's just what it is. 8v 1.6D 4-pot with 6 gears... Although I can't help but feel they'd have been better just cutting a hole in the floor (sorry Ninja!)


Ah, thanks for the correction, I didn't realise it was an official model. They've really bought into this whole D# branding. 
Whats next? The D8? A V8 Bi-Turbo Diesel?



McClane said:


> As alluded to, surely the Honda VTEC lumps in various sizes deserve a mention.
> 
> I've always been impressed with the Ford Sigma engine that runs in sizes 1.25-1.7l in Fiestas, Pumas, and certain low end Mondies and Focus'.
> 
> ...


I agree, I have never had experience of a VTEC engine, but have heard only good things.
My wife's car is a Fiesta 1.25 engine in, its actually a great little runner and nippy!
I remember a film on Top Gear about the Rover V8, it was used in practically everything from Range Rovers, sports cars, track cars, etc what an engine indeed.
As before, the only four cylinder engine (petrol or diesel) I would like to have next is the VAG 2.0T. Apart from that a five or six cylinder diesel seems like a good bet.


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## Paulo (Aug 11, 2007)

_Porsche Cayenne 4.5 V8 engines seem pretty reliable (touches wood)...:lol:

Many owners in the USA have over 200k Miles on them, main problems seem to be plastic coolant pipes cracking - not engine related...._


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Bezza said:


> Ah, thanks for the correction, I didn't realise it was an official model. They've really bought into this whole D# branding.
> Whats next? The D8? A V8 Bi-Turbo Diesel?


I think it's due to the fact that they shrunk the D5 a little bit for the 2litre D3 and D4, so rather than have a 1.6D, D3, D4, D5 they've gone the whole hog. TBH it's not like they hadn't done similar for the T4, T5 and T6 for a while now! :thumb:


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## Bezza (Oct 6, 2010)

Paulo said:


> _Porsche Cayenne 4.5 V8 engines seem pretty reliable (touches wood)...:lol:
> 
> Many owners in the USA have over 200k Miles on them, main problems seem to be plastic coolant pipes cracking - not engine related...._


Is that what you have? I would love that if I could afford to run it. Especially as on Autotrader you can pick up early 2005 ish Cayenne's for £8-10k


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## JBirchy (Oct 9, 2010)

335dAND110XS said:


> Birchy - what's next if you manage to flog the Fiat?


Well i've got 2 options. I think i'll look at another Alfa 156. Probably the 2.0 T.Spark Petrol Sportwagon. I'm in a band so i have lots of gear, and i also regularly cart a few set of golf clubs around at the weekends along with some mates, so I need a bigger car

The other option was an E36 318is Coupe with the M-Tech kit as a bit of a project, but i really need a bigger car than that!

Budget is around £1,500 - got to be a petrol. Won't be having another diesel until i can afford a twin turbo 6 pot, preferably with a BMW badge!


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## ROMEYR32 (Mar 27, 2011)

JBirchy said:


> Well i've got 2 options. I think i'll look at another Alfa 156. Probably the 2.0 T.Spark Petrol Sportwagon. I'm in a band so i have lots of gear, and i also regularly cart a few set of golf clubs around at the weekends along with some mates, so I need a bigger car
> 
> The other option was an E36 318is Coupe with the M-Tech kit as a bit of a project, but i really need a bigger car than that!
> 
> Budget is around £1,500 - got to be a petrol. Won't be having another diesel until i can afford a twin turbo 6 pot, preferably with a BMW badge!


Got a nice A4 avant for sale mate, easy carry your golf gear lol......


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## JBirchy (Oct 9, 2010)

ROMEYR32 said:


> Got a nice A4 avant for sale mate, easy carry your golf gear lol......


Would be perfect for me buddy! Really like the look of it! If you'll take £1,500 for it i'll snap it up! :lol::lol:


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## Paulo (Aug 11, 2007)

Bezza said:


> Is that what you have? I would love that if I could afford to run it. Especially as on Autotrader you can pick up early 2005 ish Cayenne's for £8-10k


_Yes, I've owned one for a year now, great performance, handling, looks and build quality, not so great MPG though....:lol:

Much better value for money than RRS, and much much better reliability, but brakes and parts can be pricey....

I've averaged just over 15mpg over the last year but that's mainly city driving in rush hour...:wall:

I came from an RX8 and Jaguar so I am used to poor economy....

Not seen any 2005's in that price range, 2003's yes...

Thinking about a change soon though, if you need any advice on Cayenne's drop me a line or I can point you to a few great forums....._


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Paulo said:


> _Porsche Cayenne 4.5 V8 engines seem pretty reliable (touches wood)...:lol:
> 
> Many owners in the USA have over 200k Miles on them, main problems seem to be plastic coolant pipes cracking - not engine related...._


You need an aftermarket exhaust mate


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## ROMEYR32 (Mar 27, 2011)

JBirchy said:


> Would be perfect for me buddy! Really like the look of it! If you'll take £1,500 for it i'll snap it up! :lol::lol:


Lol, i spent £1500 on a new air con pump, cambelt and service (puke) Great cars Audi`s but when they go wrong £££££££££


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## Bezza (Oct 6, 2010)

Paulo said:


> _Yes, I've owned one for a year now, great performance, handling, looks and build quality, not so great MPG though....:lol:
> 
> Much better value for money than RRS, and much much better reliability, but brakes and parts can be pricey....
> 
> ...


The 2005 was from memory, I couldn't remember when they started making them, can't believe its so long ago!
There's loads of RX8's to be had for peanuts presumably because of the running costs and reliability!
Wow 15mpg! That puts the 34mpg average I get into perspective.

Thanks for the offer, but I dare not even read about about a Cayenne. I would love one but I definately couldn't afford to run one at the moment, maybe in a couple of years.
There was a lot of talk about it being desperately unattractive when they first came out, but its really grown on me. I really like them now, and I don't even like regular Porsche's.


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## JBirchy (Oct 9, 2010)

ROMEYR32 said:


> Lol, i spent £1500 on a new air con pump, cambelt and service (puke) Great cars Audi`s but when they go wrong £££££££££


Jeez yeah that's a dear do! Think i'll stick with a scrapper until i can afford another decent car (damn mortgage!)


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## Paulo (Aug 11, 2007)

Grizzle said:


> You need an aftermarket exhaust mate
> 
> Porsche turbo - YouTube


_Thanks Graham, seen this before but I'm quite happy with the Turbo 4 quad set-up on mine from the factory....:lol:_


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## Paulo (Aug 11, 2007)

Bezza said:


> The 2005 was from memory, I couldn't remember when they started making them, can't believe its so long ago!
> There's loads of RX8's to be had for peanuts presumably because of the running costs and reliability!
> Wow 15mpg! That puts the 34mpg average I get into perspective.
> 
> ...


_Yes 2003 was when the Cayenne was released world-wide....

RX8's are great cars if the owners check and top up the Oil every 2nd petrol station visit, I ran one from new for 4 1/2 years and it was fantastic, no reliability problems but 3 new sets of Alloy wheels due to corrosion, usual for Jap cars, only mangaged an average of 18 mpg during my ownership....

The Cayenne is definitely a Marmite car, I'm lucky that I managed to find one with the full Tequipment bodykit (less than 100 in UK) which transforms the look of the car...

I had originally being look for a RR or RRS but after driving all 3 and reading owners reviews the Cayenne won hands down...

Always said I'd own a Porsche before I hit 40 and although It was always a 911 I dreamt of owning, this was a great compromise...._


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

davies20 said:


> Right, people are going to string me up here!
> 
> BUT, i think the z12xe is pretty good! ONLY because, i had one for 3 years as a first car in a corsa, it got hammered, hammered, hammered & look at how many other boy racers do the same!
> And i didnt have one problem with mine! Just thought i'd put it out there


Its not a bad engine and probably has quite nippy performance in older Corsa's but in the newer one like mine which is weighed down by all the safety equipment and the fact it's alot larger that engine just isn't enough to haul the extra bulk around, it just makes it feel big and cumbersome rather than small and agile, you're better of with either the diesel or one of the bigger engines.

Honda Vtec's are worth a mention, it's not the most powerful 4 cylinder around or very economical but the noise and the eagerness are just second to none, Alfa romeo twin spark engines are brilliant aswell, I've never heard such a musical 4 pot before.


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## Paulo (Aug 11, 2007)

Laurie.J.M said:


> Its not a bad engine and probably has quite nippy performance in older Corsa's but in the newer one like mine which is weighed down by all the safety equipment and the fact it's alot larger that engine just isn't enough to haul the extra bulk around, it just makes it feel big and cumbersome rather than small and agile, you're better of with either the diesel or one of the bigger engines.
> 
> Honda Vtec's are worth a mention, it's not the most powerful 4 cylinder around or very economical but the noise and the eagerness are just second to none, Alfa romeo twin spark engines are brilliant aswell, I've never heard such a musical 4 pot before.


_Agree regarding the Alfa Romeo 2.0 Twin Spark, had one in my GTV years ago and was a great sounding and very reliable engine, only 150BHP but the noise made it feel like more....:lol:

Never did buy one with the 3.0 V6 though...._


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## Bezza (Oct 6, 2010)

Paulo said:


> _
> Always said I'd own a Porsche before I hit 40 and although It was always a 911 I dreamt of owning, this was a great compromise...._


Ah, well i'm only 27, so I should probably wait a bit. My problem has often been I get a new car too quickly and it ends up costing me too much. I think I will wait a few years and then get something I really want.
My friend was looking into a Cayenne a few years ago, he went for a Mercedes CLS 55AMG instead.



Laurie.J.M said:


> Its not a bad engine and probably has quite nippy performance in older Corsa's but in the newer one like mine which is weighed down by all the safety equipment and the fact it's alot larger that engine just isn't enough to haul the extra bulk around, it just makes it feel big and cumbersome rather than small and agile, you're better of with either the diesel or one of the bigger engines.
> 
> Honda Vtec's are worth a mention, it's not the most powerful 4 cylinder around or very economical but the noise and the eagerness are just second to none, Alfa romeo twin spark engines are brilliant aswell, I've never heard such a musical 4 pot before.


True, the newer the model, the heavier it is in general.
Honda's have good reputation and Alfa's have soul...


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## JBirchy (Oct 9, 2010)

Paulo said:


> _Agree regarding the Alfa Romeo 2.0 Twin Spark, had one in my GTV years ago and was a great sounding and very reliable engine, only 150BHP but the noise made it feel like more....:lol:
> 
> Never did buy one with the 3.0 V6 though...._


I have the 2.0 Alfa in a 156 and it did feel like more than 150bhp to me too!

Lovely car, looking at another as we speak!


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Audi 2.7 biturbo? Couple of reasonably easy changes (pair of K04s, big injectors) and you could top 400bhp...


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

OvlovMike said:


> Audi 2.7 biturbo? Couple of reasonably easy changes (pair of K04s, big injectors) and you could top 400bhp...


But they suffer from failing parts too

A good engine is something that works hard and asks for little in return (ie. servicing etc.)

Honda engines have very good reputations and it was reported a few years back (may of changed) that they had never had a VTEC engine fail in the dealership network (ie. main dealer serviced) of cars.

Typically most modern engines do not fail, nearly all engine problems that todays cars have are down to the electrical components that help the engine run. It is very rare to have an actual engine fail (if serviced once in a while).


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Mine didn't ask for too much, only really let go when you made them big power.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

I had a 2001 year model E46 320d. This was the year BMW introduced a new engine producing 148BHP. It did not sound like a tin of nuts and bolts first thing in the morning. It returned about 50mpg and that was after I put 122000 on the clock. The engine never let me down or ever failed to start.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

R32 engine was good - not much power for a 3.2 but made an amazing sound, pulled from idle to red-line and rock solid. There's a lot to be said for large, unstressed engines.


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## RD55 DUN (Dec 30, 2008)

Depends on personal opinion of what is good.

Personally i think the B16B Vtec - 185ps from a 1600cc...one of the highest outputs/litre of all time. Revs to 9000rpm and very, very rare for a problem to occur.


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

^ Absolutely agree.. over 100bhp/litre :thumb:

plus the thrill of vtec yo


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## Stevoraith (Mar 15, 2008)

Personal opinion indeed.

I am not a fan at all of vtec engines.

Reliable? Yes. Powerful? In certain cases yes. Sound fantastic? Yes.

Nice to drive when you're not revving the **** off it? Absolutely not.
Economical (for the power they produce)? Not a chance.

BMW 3.0D would have to be my pick for an all-round winner.
Powerful (with lots of torque), economical when you consider how quick they are, nice to drive lazily and happy to be driven hard, sound nice and have no major reliability horror stories.

But then I guess you're going to get lots of people picking the engine that's in their car!

To be fair though, I have owned seven different cars (with two having the same 1.9PD VAG engine) and I currently also own another car with a 2.0TDI CR 170bhp VAG engine and the BMW is the only one I would put forward as being a great engine.
It's the only one where the engine enhances the car and really stands out as being excellent.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

OvlovMike said:


> I think it's due to the fact that they shrunk the D5 a little bit for the 2litre D3 and D4, so rather than have a 1.6D, D3, D4, D5 they've gone the whole hog. TBH it's not like they hadn't done similar for the T4, T5 and T6 for a while now! :thumb:


cheek is my first sentiment our D2 is quite good as i have said before but yes some are Cr8p.

D5 is not shrunk as such more destroked....OLD D5

the only major reason they changed was because the PSA/Ford units were changing to...

im confused by the new T wording the only important ones i know are the T5 and T6 i know the T3 or is it T4 is a 1.6 petrol turbo with 180 bhp...

oh Mike was in the dealers someday last week or this week cannot remember tbh and noticed they have started putting black sleeves inside the R Design exhausts to cover the soot out of them! although somehow i prefer the completely shiny look when its clean anyway.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Volvo... even the name sounds dull bit like ninja **yawn**


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> Volvo... even the name sounds dull bit like ninja **yawn**


yeah yeah get back to yawning at your PG Tipoped Octagon you.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

I cannot stand Honda's insistence on making cars with almost no torque. Amazing feats of engineering but having to thrash the nuts of them just to go to the shops is a bit annoying.

BMW 3.0D engine (which mine is but with two turbos) doing well. It is a very good unit - powerful, economical, low emissions, stinking torque, so far pretty darn reliable.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

335dAND110XS said:


> I cannot stand Honda's insistence on making cars with almost no torque. Amazing feats of engineering but having to thrash the nuts of them just to go to the shops is a bit annoying.


The "cooker" models aren't that bad it's just the lairy ones that are meant to be a bit jekyl and hyde, they don't need thrapping to go to the shops but when you feel like it it's go the power.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

I tested a CTR and an ATR and both were similar - needed ragging mercilessly. Fine on the track or 1% of the time, annoying for the rest of it. Even the NSX pretty torque less.


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## Ming (Oct 16, 2007)

Dont think i have ever really owned what you woulds call an economical car!!
Had some stonkers though.
Current car is a VW Touareg 5 litre V10 twin turbo diesel. Stonking engine pulls like mad and just dashes along. Gear box lets it down and even on tip tronic has big delays. Put it with a manual gear box and in a car tht doesnt weight 2.5 ton and it would set the world alight. 320 bhp and over 500 ft lb of torque. Fuel consumption on a run (cruise control at 92) middle to high 20's round town about 18:doublesho
Previous car 
Nissan 350Z. 3.5 litre V6. Great lazy N/A engine. A lot quicker than it actually seemed and soooo much fun with the TC off. Averaged high 20's during ownership and 35+ on a run at steady 90 to 95.
Jaguar XK8 4 litre V8. Another auto and when running a decent drive and great looker but spent more time broke than on the road. cost me a friggin fortune. Never felt quick but auto box was good.
My all time favourite
Mitsubishi GTO. 3 litre V6 petrol twin turbo. 320bhp, mint 6 speed gear box. Would rev like a 250cc two stroke MC engine and would do 92 yes Ninety ******g two in second gear. Fuel on a run was about 30 and if really battered around the back lanes could get into single figures!! LOL
I have serviced all these engines myself (general service) and for more complex stuff used the same independant local garage.
Apart from the Jag all the ENGINES have been rock solid even though they received substantial abuse.
I wonder what it is like to get 50 to a gallon.
Ming the Mad


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Ming - I love those V10 Touraegs! Muchos respect!!


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## Chicane (Mar 31, 2011)

The Merc W201 2.5 Diesel from the 190 I would argue is one of the, if not, the most reliable, bulletproof engine ever built. They are fast approaching rocky-horse poo territory as most of them are now generators in developing countries


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## Bezza (Oct 6, 2010)

RD55 DUN said:


> Depends on personal opinion of what is good.
> 
> Personally i think the B16B Vtec - 185ps from a 1600cc...one of the highest outputs/litre of all time. Revs to 9000rpm and very, very rare for a problem to occur.


What about the 1.6T GM engine? In my Astra it develops 180ps, and I believe its the same engine thats in the Corsa VXR and in that it develops 200ps. 
The difference being of course its a Turbo and the Vtec isn't. I suppose it comes down to personal choice.



Ming said:


> Dont think i have ever really owned what you woulds call an economical car!!
> Had some stonkers though.
> Current car is a VW Touareg 5 litre V10 twin turbo diesel. Stonking engine pulls like mad and just dashes along. Gear box lets it down and even on tip tronic has big delays. Put it with a manual gear box and in a car tht doesnt weight 2.5 ton and it would set the world alight. 320 bhp and over 500 ft lb of torque. Fuel consumption on a run (cruise control at 92) middle to high 20's round town about 18:doublesho
> Previous car
> ...


You have owned some nice cars!
I would really like to try the V10 TDi, especially to tow a plane with or something.



Chicane said:


> The Merc W201 2.5 Diesel from the 190 I would argue is one of the, if not, the most reliable, bulletproof engine ever built. They are fast approaching rocky-horse poo territory as most of them are now generators in developing countries


Again, its the older engines that seemed to be the bulletproof ones, perhaps they build flaws into engines now to make us buy a new car more often!


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## RD55 DUN (Dec 30, 2008)

Bezza said:


> What about the 1.6T GM engine? In my Astra it develops 180ps, and I believe its the same engine thats in the Corsa VXR and in that it develops 200ps.
> The difference being of course its a Turbo and the Vtec isn't. I suppose it comes down to personal choice.


Yeah that is pretty good again form a 1600, however forced injection gives it the advantage. Also there are VW and Fiat forced injection 1400cc with 170hp and 180hp.

The NA 1600cc Vtec, IMO is great to drive, feels like a race car with the high revs. However there is a downside, being having very little low down power, and high fuel consumption...probably one of the main reasons no engines like this are made anymore.


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## dann2707 (Mar 25, 2011)

k-series anyone?


:tumbleweed:


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

dann2707 said:


> k-series anyone?
> 
> :tumbleweed:


Phiifffftttt... I've just spit me coffee all over me keyboard thank you very much...:lol::lol:


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

2.2cdi from my CLK bulletproof 

2.7 V6 in the XF much nicer after remap 

4.2 V8 in the S-Type R with a supercharger strapped to it - Nice 

6.0 V12 in the DB9 - Fookin insane and mental on the paddles


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## Th3Doctor (Feb 2, 2010)

K20 awesome bullet proof engine and despite what others have said you do NOT have to thrash the nuts of it to go to the shops. Add a flash pro into the mix and it improves an already great engine even further by spreading/increasing power across the entire rev-range. I-vtec FTW


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## Stevoraith (Mar 15, 2008)

Th3Doctor said:


> K20 awesome bullet proof engine and despite what others have said you do NOT have to thrash the nuts of it to go to the shops. Add a flash pro into the mix and it improves an already great engine even further by spreading/increasing power across the entire rev-range. I-vtec FTW


Nope you don't have to thrash the nuts off it to go to the shops. In fact, the lack of torque makes it very granny friendly and docile when driving to the shops :lol:

Why I personally don't like these torque-light, rev-hungry engines is that if you're cruising a long on the motorway and you want a quick squirt of acceleration you don't get it unless you change down or hang it in a lower gear just in case the need arises.
Some people like the delivery, and I'm full of admiration for the specific output and the feel and sound when you're on maximum attack but the lack of flexability in the type of driving that the majority of people do the majority of the time just stops it from being elevated to the status of 'great' for me.

(I'm not just re-itterating internet opinions here by the way, my brother had a Civic Jordan with the 1.6 and two of my mates had the first gen Civic Type R with the 2.0- sorry I don't know the jap codes!)


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## Magic Detail (Jul 25, 2010)

Guy with 330d deutschewagon says 3.0d BMW engine is the bestest. What shocker :lol:

K20a gets a thumbs up from me. One of the most reliable, tunable engines of the last decade. The next generation of motors have got to go a long way to exceed this engine. Everything in the hatch market are getting smaller displacements with turbo's bolted on, not entirely sure this is the way forward, but keeps power high while emissions lowered I suppose. Green planet and all that...


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## Stevoraith (Mar 15, 2008)

Paragon said:


> Guy with 330d deutschewagon says 3.0d BMW engine is the bestest. What shocker :lol:


:lol::wave:

You know what they say mate, opinions are like @rseholes 

Not sure 3.0d BMW engine is the best, I just know that revvy jap engines aren't


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## Magic Detail (Jul 25, 2010)

3.0 V6 diesel Mercedes engine is a bit of an animal. 261hp, 450lbs/ft and returns 40mpg. Reliable too. Heard a story of one of those injesting some oil when being overfilled by the mechanic - revved to the limiter and stayed there for more than a minute... expecting conrods to let go while revving to ~5000rpm, the head melted rather than the bottom end fail:lol:


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Paragon said:


> 3.0 V6 diesel Mercedes engine is a bit of an animal. 261hp, 450lbs/ft and returns 40mpg. Reliable too. Heard a story of one of those injesting some oil when being overfilled by the mechanic - revved to the limiter and stayed there for more than a minute... expecting conrods to let go while revving to ~5000rpm, the head melted rather than the bottom end fail:lol:


Which unit it that? The 350CDI unit is only 220ish bhp.

BMW 35d unit is 286bhp (mine is over 300) and 428lbs-ft (435 for me) and gets 40mpg on a good run. It is also available in cars that handles properly :thumb:

The 40d (almost the same mechanically as the 35d one) unit is over 300 and 450ish stock but not yet available in anything smallish.


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

E36 318is four pots are amazing, had two E36's awesome to drive & the last one was driven hard for over 10 years 99% short runs too, if my latest racing tank stands up to that i'll be a happy bunny.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Stevoraith said:


> :lol::wave:
> 
> You know what they say mate, opinions are like @rseholes
> 
> Not sure 3.0d BMW engine is the best, I just know that revvy jap engines aren't


RB26DETT. IMHO it's a pretty damn good engine. Revs to 10k I think too?

I mean saying all jap engines are rev happy is a bit... generalised? I know the vq35hr/de has enough torque? Stick a turbo on pretty much anything and it'll have torque.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

the 1.0 they put in the micra is probably the best engine around............















:tumbleweed:




:lol: morning RP :lol:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

CraigQQ said:


> the 1.0 they put in the micra is probably the best engine around............
> 
> :tumbleweed:
> 
> :lol: morning RP :lol:


I thought you had one of those in your qashqai


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## Magic Detail (Jul 25, 2010)

335dAND110XS said:


> Which unit it that? The 350CDI unit is only 220ish bhp.


W212. The 2987cc V6 diesel unit is available in various guises ranging from 201hp and 400lbs/ft to 261hp and 460lbs/ft. The latter can be found in the E350CDI Blue Efficiency model :thumb:

Brabus chip them and they go to ~275hp, but 590lbs/ft :doublesho

nom nom..


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Better watch out for those Mercs then, although the engines only seem to be in their larger cars. Are you sure Brabus only hike the power by 14bhp?! Most good remappers can add over 50bhp to mine and 70ish lbs-ft.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Ive had two 330D's and i think the engine is great but had a drive of 1 series with 23 twin turbo and the engine was great one of the best IMO, and the new 20ltr BM engine is a peach, i think the merc is catching fast and Audi have a new engine due out 3ltr V6 will likely give us the fastest production desil yet , but wait a minute BMW romours say that a M powered diesel is on the cards can't wait let's hope the can make it sound like the M3 V8


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

RisingPower said:


> I thought you had one of those in your qashqai



your mean.. its lies..

its a 1.2 :lol:

actually i'll be honest its a 1.6 lol.. 2wd aswell.. cheap insurance though:lol:


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

^ 2WD really?


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

T.D.K said:


> ^ 2WD really?


i wouldn't get the benefit of 4wd more than 1 month a year, so it wasn't worth paying the extra for the 2.0dci engine, the 4wd drive, the insurance and the fuel.

they are just a "crossover" not really a SUV/4x4

sorry im going off topic in the engine thread..

as you were RP :thumb:


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## Stevoraith (Mar 15, 2008)

RisingPower said:


> RB26DETT. IMHO it's a pretty damn good engine. Revs to 10k I think too?
> 
> I mean saying all jap engines are rev happy is a bit... generalised? I know the vq35hr/de has enough torque? Stick a turbo on pretty much anything and it'll have torque.


I know that's a bit generalised- that's why I didn't say it. I was referring to the two revvy four pots (k16 and k20?) which were previously mentioned. 
As far as I remember, no-one has mentioned any jap engines apart from those?

The only jap engine I've tried apart from those was a 1.8 in an Avensis. That was a contender for worst engine ever but that's a whole different thread....


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Great Jap engines in cars I have driven:

Original Subaru Impreza 2.0 Turbo
1.8 VVti in the mk3 MR2 (but needed more power)
1.8VVti in the Elise 111R
Nutty unit in the Evo 9 FQ360
CTR (mk1 version)

Reliable and work well. None sound all that good but they are all pretty bulletproof.


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