# 600sqft Man-Cave



## scrivs78

Hi All, 
Thought it was time to start documenting my build. Be warned, I suspect this may be quite slow unfortunately due to things seemingly being more complicated than expected!!!

We moved here about 6 years ago, and have no intention of ever moving again. With the arrival of my 3rd Son, I now need to give up my office in the 3rd bedroom, but as I work from home frequently, I need a space to work!! So the wife has approved a building at the bottom of the garden which will now be an office / studio / garage / den / cinema (Basically a big man-cave)!!
With four boys (including me), my wife's attitude is "the more stuff in the building, the less time all of you will be in the house"!!!!!

This is the space it will be occupying; behind the bush by the garage is 6yrs of me dumping stuff like old fencing!!










The pond has been half dismantled as a new one will be incorporated into the build; they have their semi-temporary accommodation here.










While I was doing all the decking / pergola / small pond and play area I put an application in for Permitted Development of the new building as an Office / Studio. The building is 8.8m wide by 7m deep by 2.5m high with a triple bi-fold door at the front (behind apple tree in pic). A double automatic, insulated garage door will occupy the back wall.

This will give me an open plan office and large space which I can fit 2 cars if required, but ordinarily be used for one car with plenty of access around it. The whole building will therefore be treated as a "studio" and insulated / ventilated accordingly. This will then give me loads of flexibility on the use, ie play / den area, my dream of renovating a classic, and of course a comfortable environment to "detail" these in!!



















I received "lawful development" for the building, built as block and then got some building regulation drawings done, which is when I started to get quotes, oh my god!!!! They were unbelievable and totally out of my budget, and completely took me by surprise.

But, I have my vision, which I intend to carry out one way or another!! Thankfully I know my way around "DIY" but have never done anything like this; it's always been renovations and never the actual structure. So I started my research, building regulations are a minefield, and my brain was bursting!!!!

So, again, enough was enough, time to do some manual labour and take out my frustrations!!! I know the current state was not helping with the quotes, so I got stuck in and started demolishing!










Thankfully a skip could be put in at the back where the old garage was, which made life much easier and the end result is.










I have a mini digger coming on Friday, so I can level out the ground, and dig out for the new pond and patio area. The trees at the back are coming down next Tuesday which will give me a "blank canvass".

All the internals, I have planned, along with the overall final look of it all which I will be able to achieve with relative ease as it's all a known entity, but it's getting to this stage I am really struggling with, so any help and advice would be gratefully received! To all the experience out there I pose some questions.

- I am now looking at a timber build, and quotes have come in at a reasonable cost for the size. Because I am within 1 metre of the boundary, it needs fire protection which is fine, but how will this effect foundations, i.e. could I now build a "raft" rather than full depth 1m deep? What is the criteria building regs would use?
- What is, if any, are the advantages of block building over a timber build? (I will clad the garden side in cedar either way), will it be worth getting new quotes?
- Whatever way I go, I am not sure about the base either. Do I insulate it, and if so, will celotex (or equivalent) under screed take the weight of the cars? Will it make a big difference to the comfort?


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## Alfa male

Subscribed and looking forward to this panning out. Good luck ...


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## slim_boy_fat

Love these kinds of thread, even if I am a bit jealous.......


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## legs

looking forward to this.

nice lotus by the way


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## Blazefan13

Sub,ed for this one, as I am half way though one of two big builds which I started in May and hope to document on here. I have only ever done very small household DIY before and now have tiles on a small part of the new extension I am building which wraps round 3 sides of my house. There is a huge amount of help on the Internet and some very detailed self build websites, but just talking small steps soon adds up. Good luck and can't wait to read more.


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## scrivs78

Thank you for the words of encouragement. I am looking forward to Friday and the mini digger, just hope the weather gets a bit better!!!


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## Bigoggy

Ooo love reading these and dreaming of my own den to mess around with my car in haha


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## Wrigit

Mini diggers are awesome fun!! 

You are achieving one my biggest life goals right there, Good luck to you mate!


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## Guest

Blank canvas can be dangerous!

I think every detailing head would have a bigger garage than a house if we got our way 

Best of luck with it!


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## BenEarles

Looks like its going to be a great build


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## M3simon

Subscribed.


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## scrivs78

Digger and conc crusher arrived on Friday, so broke out and crushed the old garage slab and pond, levelled the ground across the back where the new garage will be, then started digging the new pond out.

I can't believe how much soil there is!!!!






















Photos don't get the scale very well, but the pond hole is 2.2m deep from the timber across the fence.

Will organise grab lorries for during the week which should then leave me a clear picture of the next stages!


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## Demetrios72

What a great space!! :thumb:


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## turbosnoop

Amazing how once the soil is disturbed, and no longer tightly packed in the ground, how much volume it has ,isn't it. 2.2m seems deep, didn't realise you'd need to go that deep


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## wlmoate

Hi,

are you having a retaining wall for the pond against the boundary?

Wayne


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## scrivs78

It's incredible how soil expands. Heavy rain over night has turned it all to mud!

Pond will be 700mm above ground, 1.4m below. Allowing for 200mm base gives me a depth of 1.9m

Pond will be built using 7n blocks on edge, so will be pretty robust.


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## cadmunkey

subbed, good luck with it! I have a similar sized rear garden but unfortunately no access to it via car so will have to just drool over your build instead


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## Palmer02

Any updates?


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## scrivs78

Yes, sorry, must get some photos up! I am not as far through as I hoped as I keep changing my mind!!


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## scrivs78

Currently still no "man cave", but the pond is now built and foundations to building within the next couple of weeks. Once they are done, the walls will go up quickly.

Believe it or not, I have actually done a lot of work, you just can't see it!!! Ground works is so frustrating, literally burying money in the ground!!!!


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## scrivs78

Hi All, Sorry been a while since an update, but things are moving.

14th Jan - All the foundations were completed and ground finally levelled and cleared. There were some massive tree roots that came out!



















20th Jan - All the block formwork arrived to site and unloaded.



















Saturday 23rd Jan - Started laying the blocks with my 4 year olds "help"










By the end of play, first 2 courses were on, and it was all level. The foundations were only 20mm out over the 32m so made my life much easier.










Sunday 24th Jan - Family over to help with the bulk laying now its level.










All done.










Props all in and walls supported










Still have some tidying up todo along with drilling for the ducting and venting before the concrete pour happens on Monday.


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## [email protected]

Wowzers! Can't wait to see this after concrete has been poured! Good work!


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## adamb87

What are them blocks? Not seen anything like them before ...


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## scrivs78

They are polystyrene blocks, used as a form work for concrete inside. They then provide an airtight insulated building. 
It's called ICF.


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## Andrew Goacher

scrivs78 said:


> They are polystyrene blocks, used as a form work for concrete inside. They then provide an airtight insulated building.
> It's called ICF.


I work in a builders merchant and have heard builders talk about those blocks but never have actually seen the real thing. Looks so easy!


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## Ashley1995

Awesome! looking forward to updates


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## SuperchargedLlama

Annnnnnd subbed!


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## Alfa male

They've been on Grand Designs a few times. They've been seen to fail if they fill concrete incorrectly or if wall hasn't been tied in correctly. That aside the systems gets high praise


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## Mighty-Blighty

Wow, would love a project like this. Subbed!


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## scrivs78

The blocks themselves are every easy and quick to put up. In fact most of the process is actually quite "easy". I would like to point out, before this project I had only ever used ready mix fence post concrete!!

It's this "ease" that ultimately reduces labour, and therefore makes the whole build cheaper. I could not afford this project using a traditional method and getting people in. I had the quotes, and they were 4 times my budget!

There are loads of other benefits to the system, however, you have to do things as per manufacturer and in a very planned and methodical way. The blow outs occur (like on grand designs) because the wrong spec conc is used, poured to quick or not braced correctly.

Another "downside" is the machinery required, so good access is a must. Pour day arrived, 14m3 of conc ordered, and this.









16m boom truck ready to go.









All very exciting but nerve racking!! (Poss blow out is always on your mind)

At this point, it all started to go wrong. First conc lorry turned up 2hrs late, with a very wet mix, so everything had to move slowly. Boom truck also couldn't reach 100% so made pouring one side very difficult. It was hard going, but 8m3 done.

Then the 2nd lorry was late, and it was dark by the time it arrived, neighbours were beginning to get cross with the large lorries outside for 5hrs, and then the conc lorry broke down, no more conc for me!!!

The whole pour should have taken no more than 3hrs, I was not in a good mood to say the least. The walls are 2/3rds full, and I now have to get another boom truck to do it all again, which I can't do until next Thursday due to other commitments. 2hrs has cost me 10days in delays!!

Lesson, only every book concrete for 8am delivery!!


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## SuperchargedLlama

That is a proper ballache! As you say, plenty of lessons learned n all that but wait a pain in the ass.

Did you neighbours give you lots of agro or were they fairly understanding when you explained what was going on?


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## scrivs78

Most have been really good and understanding, especially as the build is "different", it's generated a lot of positive interest. 

But, there are always the odd ones, which did give me a lot of agro on the day, and to be fair they were within their right todo so.


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## Tricky Red

We were on decent terms with our neighbours before our house extension. One side were brilliant through the build, very supportive and allowed lots of access on their property. But they are genuinely good neighbours and nice people too. 

The other side were ok beforehand but complained bitterly throughout, from too much dust, too much noise, parking over driveway for deliveries etc. I could do nothing and eventually ran out of apologies. We no longer speak. I try but it is blanked. Shame.


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## scrivs78

Learnt my lesson from last time and booked the conc and boom truck for a 8am start this morning. 
Plan was to finish of filling the walls, and also to lay a couple of small slabs around the pond which will form the waterfall and flower beds. 
Pleased to say, 6.5m3 of conc poured in an hour, with no issues!!!!
Turned out to be a really good day, sun was shinning, not under pressure so I actually enjoyed it all!!!
Next week the scaffolding comes down and the floor is going in, which i think will transform what it currently looks like!


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## Maxtor

Nice job mate. Hats off to you for all the hard work. :thumb:


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## Guest

Could have been worse...many a wall has been condemned because of concrete cold joints....but its a garage not the Hoover dam,carry on :thumb:
http://www.concrete.org.uk/fingertips-nuggets.asp?cmd=display&id=372
You say this is the cheapest method of construction you found?.Standard concrete 3.6N blocks are £10 ish per m2...if you went with cavity walls did it still work out more expensive than the ICF.


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## scrivs78

Join is in compression and has rebar at 400 centres, so should hold up!!

It's not the cheapest, but is comparable to a traditional cavity wall build as long as you compare like for like ie full construction of the wall including finishing. It will give an airtight building, so this needs to also be considered in costs. 
I will try and do a full breakdown at some point as a lot of people have asked. 

The other thing is labour and speed, it's worked out much cheaper for me because I have done so much myself. 
I was initially quoted £1250 /m2 to build a fully insulated comfortable building that can be used all year as an "extension" to our home. 
I have done it far, far cheaper than that!


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## scrivs78

Very quick a crude cost comparison. 

ICF with 6" core = £60m2
Cavity Wall with 130mm insulation = £30m2


There are savings down the line with ICF length of time scaffolding is required for example, even core drilling ducting. Polystyrene takes 2min with a pad saw, how long to go through cavity blocks?

Plus I am not sure how much extra "work" would be required to fully air seal the cavity insulation. 

Then installation of first fix, chasing polystyrene is much quicker than chasing block!

To build a 2.4m x 1.2m wall. ICF would take about 10min, no idea how long to build equivalent blocks? (If it was me prob about 6hrs!!)

I think all in, it prob works out at an equal ish cost, but you end up with a naturally air tight and efficient building. To heat it will cost next to nothing, making it a very sustainable system, that coupled with DIY ease, were my primary reasons to use it. 

The system is not for everyone, you do need good access to site for example, also needs to be very well planned, however, anyone looking to new build or extend I would seriously consider it. I will certainly use it again when I extend the main house and will retrofit the rest of the house with it.


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## Guest

I suppose I could wait and see,but....whats the external finish going to be?


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## scrivs78

Excited again, scaffolding is down. It suddenly feels very big again!

















The garden side will be red cedar, the rest will just be cement board.


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## richtea78

Does the polystyrene stay after the concrete is set or do you remove it?


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## scrivs78

It stays. Does multiple things. 

- provides the form for conc
- provides the insulation
- has fixing points every 8", use this to screw the plasterboard into, along with any other fixings. 
- think it also helps the fire rating. (Conc does most of that though)

I will put the same stuff on the floor and on the ceiling.


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## richtea78

Pretty clever stuff then!


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## scrivs78

Started on the floor yesterday, hardcore, sand and insulation. The insulation is the same stuff as the walls, but denser, so has very high compressive strength.









Then this morning, more concrete!!

















Now time to concentrate back on the pond/patio area and then the roof steels in a couple of weeks.


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## scrivs78

Builder was in today finishing the block work for the pond filters and flower beds using 7n blocks, those things are heavy and slow going, no way I could have done the whole build using them!!

Will get some photos tomorrow when it's light.

Having a break from the build tomorrow, as I picked up the new car yesterday, so need to give it a quick treatment. Wish the garage was finished so I could do it in the warm!!


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## scrivs78

Been working on the pond and landscaping part of the build.

Pond is all boarded and ready for fibreglass.

















Steels arrived









Spent today tidying up a bit, and doing bits and bobs. Pleased to actually put at car in it today for the first time!









Will make a start on the rafters tomorrow


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## richtea78

Apologies if I missed it but given the depth of the pond I'm guessing it's for Koi?


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## scrivs78

Yes, it will be for koi.


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## scrivs78

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## Surrey Sam

A proper koi pond...nice. Are you thinking of heating it using the solar panels? I've always wondered if the ICF method of building would be a suitable for koi pond building, did you ever enquire about its suitability?

Nice project you have going there, I would love to do something similar myself but never stay at a property long enough to warrant it.


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## scrivs78

Surrey Sam said:


> A proper koi pond...nice. Are you thinking of heating it using the solar panels? I've always wondered if the ICF method of building would be a suitable for koi pond building, did you ever enquire about its suitability?
> 
> Nice project you have going there, I would love to do something similar myself but never stay at a property long enough to warrant it.


Thank you, cant wait to get the coping stones on and fish in it!!! Its currently holding 18 degrees, and doesn't seem to change with the 25mm polycarbonate covers on. In the garage, you can feel the warmth in the walls, so can only assume its the same in the pond.

I did enquire, and it wasn't something that had been done, but, swimming pools had been built with it. I choose it because I knew I was building the garage with it, so wanted to "practice" on something smaller so just went for it!!

The Solar Panels are providing electricity for the whole building and main house, its a 4kw system so we are producing a lot more than we use, even with an electric car, and everything running to "electric" heat will be used in some form, but, I want to run the pond for a year first to see how it performs without heat, and then I can decide on the best method.

I am currently thinking an ASHP on the roof, however, I am still considering heating the building with wet underfloor heating and an electric boiler / ashp. I could then use this system via a heat exchanger to heat the pond when there is no demand for the building.

We have no intention of ever moving, and the project has grown from a simple office and garage space, to an experimental indulgence due to the potential use of the space!

I don't think it will ever truly be finished, but for me a lot of the fun is in the research of what we "could" do. Its partly why the build has taken so long.


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## Radders89

Brilliant build. Don't suppose you would mind letting me know how much the ICF alone cost? 


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## scrivs78

£42 ex vat per block if I remember correctly. Each block is 8 feet long by 18" high. 


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## DrEskimo

Fantastic build. Really love the idea of being completely self sufficient with the solar panels and the electric car. Just moved from a flat to a victorian terraced, so even the idea of charging a car from the mains, let alone a wall socket is a distant dream...! With house prices round me I don't think I can even think about a driveway for a good while!!

Will you be looking at battery storage in the future? Something like the Tesla home battery?


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## scrivs78

DrEskimo said:


> Fantastic build. Really love the idea of being completely self sufficient with the solar panels and the electric car. Just moved from a flat to a victorian terraced, so even the idea of charging a car from the mains, let alone a wall socket is a distant dream...! With house prices round me I don't think I can even think about a driveway for a good while!!
> 
> Will you be looking at battery storage in the future? Something like the Tesla home battery?


Yes, will def look at battery storage. Want to live with the panels for a year first to see how much "extra" we produce. I can then work out of the investment is worth it or not. Tesla batteries do look cool though!!

Have made a little progress to the outside. This will be my view from my new desk (eventually!)



















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## Paul JC

Looks great 

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## Palmer02

Looks great, loving the koi pond


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