# Advice needed



## tovtm (Aug 5, 2013)

Hi I've got a rusty rear wheel arch that im in the process of sorting out so far I've sanded back the rust filed and sanded and primed. The car is a Toyota celica 2000> matallic silver. You can see from the picture I've drawn where I've repaired so should I be blending to a certain point/spraying

I need to know If to match the new spray with the old if I should blend the spray past the filler by ....??? Inches iveheard alot about halo but not sure what causes it.

Is there any process I should go through? I'm using cellulose so 50/50 mix with thinners?


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## SystemClenz (Oct 31, 2008)

Welcome to the forum!!


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Have you had any previous experience at spraying, as silver can be a hard colour to blend in. Plus I would hope your doing clear over base. If its aerosol cans your using it can be harder as depending on how big the area is you have primed, you will will need a bigger area past that to loose the silver, then the laquer should be taken further past that and faded out. Its not quite as simple as you would think I dint suppose your any where near Brentwood Essex as I wouldn't mind helping/showing you how you need go do it as im a smart repairer by trade. :thumb:


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

Andys a proper legend , im going to drive to brentwood one day to see some paint being done lol


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## tovtm (Aug 5, 2013)

Thanks Andy Unfortunately I'm in Portsmouth/Hampshire. But really appreciate the offering shame im not a little closer.

I have sprayed before which turned out good just a little orange peel. It was a whole bonnet in white. I'm using cellulose for everythinh including clear coat. The original paint work is very good nice deep colour almost gives that wet look/very shiny.

My main worries is how far to spray out to as its only 3-4" past the edge of the arch that has the primer and the rest of the paint is fine ive got my heart in my mouth to spray new paint over nice tidy spray work incase I bulls it up lol. Other than that im confident to do it myself.

When you say to fade out the Laquer is it nessosery to buy fade out thinners or is the trade secret just to use thinners as im not sure if it's the same for all Laquer but the one I brought you use neat no thinners tobe added. 

Thanks tom


Saying that just worked it out and it's £40 return in petrol to get to you. Hmm taught by a expert or have a go my self....
Thinking to be done.


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Not a problem mate.
With the base colour, you really need to apply the silver over the primer, but take it a bit further with each coat, but leave sufficent drying times between coats, around 10-15 mins, taking it a bit further each time will help to blend it in, once your happy its covered the final coat of silver should be very light, almost like a mist coat this will help the metallic to sit more even and blend in evenly, can be easier said than done just takes practice. Or ultimatly if you have an old panel to practice blending silver in may help. 
With the lawyer, take the first coat just past where the base colour ends, then same again going further with each coat, on the final coat, fade out spray should just be sprayed over where the laquer ends as it will help dissolve it in making it easier to polish in. 
with fade out its your choice we just add fade out thiner to a little bit of clear, so it would basically be around a 50/50 mix making the laquer more like thinners to help dissolve the laquer edge in making it almost invisible.
Upto you mate, if your confident enough to do it then I don't mind answering any more questions you may have either here or pm me. :thumb:


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## tovtm (Aug 5, 2013)

Would you say make each layer about 6" past the last and 3 base coats would be sufficient do you think? 

So in this order (please correct me if I'm wrong)

-primer been sprayed and left to set, wet flat with 500 grit
-wash then panel wipe panel
-spray base silver 50/50 mix 3 coats each approx 6" past the last each time 10 min flash time, between last coat light
-wait 1hr? Spray lacquer again 10-15 min Flash time and 6" past each layer. 
-mix 50/50 blender with lacquer and spray on the last clear coat edge.

I can only seem to get my hands on 1ltr blender do you know if anywhere dose smaller amounts or spray can form


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

You really only need to take it a couple of inchs past the primer, then each coat the same. It may take three coats or more of colour depending on how well it actually covers. 
With the primer instead if finishing it with 500, id say finish it with a higher grade as possible the finer the finish the better the colour will sit, finish the primer of with P1000 would be better.
You would need to ask your paint stockist about fade out as I know now alot of them only stock it in aerosol form. :thumb:


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## tovtm (Aug 5, 2013)

Will get in touch with them tomorrow there only around the corner from me. I guess mask of all around the rear quarter like front door back window tyre and rear bumper to and keep the rear quarter clear so there's no block lines created.


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

tovtm said:


> Will get in touch with them tomorrow there only around the corner from me. I guess mask of all around the rear quarter like front door back window tyre and rear bumper to and keep the rear quarter clear so there's no block lines created.


yes mate.
Its just the primed area that needs to be finished in P1000, then the rest of the panel should be finished in P1500 where your planning on loosing the laquer. Sounds like you've pretty much got it right. Any problems or need more advice just ask mate. :thumb:


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## Cthrower (Sep 19, 2011)

craigeh123 said:


> Andys a proper legend , im going to drive to brentwood one day to see some paint being done lol


Haha, I'll tag along!
Open day at Andy's :thumb:


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

Would you be up for that Andy lol ?


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

craigeh123 said:


> Would you be up for that Andy lol ?


lol if had my own workshop/unit id be more than happy to help fellow dw members. And we would soon have your rover looking like new mate. :thumb:


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## tovtm (Aug 5, 2013)

Noticed I had some blenishes so filled and primed again but noticed somthing that happened lat time too I spray onto the panel but around the spray pattern I get little thicker bits not smooth like the sprayed area a little hard to describe bit hope you know what I mean lol I took a picture not sure if you can see from it but its ok on primer as it will sand out but on basecoat obviously I can sand it as it will scratch and be dull if I then laqure over it wont it?


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

cheers andy , i wasnt really getting at painting my car im just interested in paint and would like to see it done as your explanantions always show you really care and know your stuff , i did start learning with a mate next to my old work but i decided 2k and no masks was a bad idea and whenever i had time he didnt and when he did i didnt lol .


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## Cthrower (Sep 19, 2011)

Andyb0127 said:


> lol if had my own workshop/unit id be more than happy to help fellow dw members. And we would soon have your rover looking like new mate. :thumb:


Why do you need a unit, you're a smart repairer mate.
We'll come down in the winter when it's snowing and freezing and you can just paint some stuff next to a busy slushy motorway. That's how smart repairs are done, isn't it? :tumbleweed:


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## andyrst (Apr 6, 2009)

cant sand the base before clear coat mate it'll have no sparklie if you get me


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## tovtm (Aug 5, 2013)

Understand 100% do you know why the gun is doing this or what I am doing wrong as to why outside of the spray pattern there is thicker blobs? Or once clear coat is on it will hide all these?


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## tovtm (Aug 5, 2013)

Tried spraying 1k lacquer a little while ago What a disaster it come out the gun like candyfloss so tried thinning it 10% still same whats happening?


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Cthrower said:


> Why do you need a unit, you're a smart repairer mate.
> We'll come down in the winter when it's snowing and freezing and you can just paint some stuff next to a busy slushy motorway. That's how smart repairs are done, isn't it? :tumbleweed:


All the time, doesn't matter what the conditions are, slap a bit of old news paper as masking, use cheapest basecoat possible don't worry about colour match, any old cheap shyte laquer making sure you get as much overspray over the car as possible, don't worry about what it looks like that will do.

I knew I was doing it wrong lol. God that will give us smart repairers a bad name lol.


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

tovtm said:


> Tried spraying 1k lacquer a little while ago What a disaster it come out the gun like candyfloss so tried thinning it 10% still same whats happening?


sounds like the problem could be the spraygun, and it needs a good clean. Have a look at the lid on the spraygun aswell as there should be a breather hole which needs to be clear as it won't work properly.


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## tovtm (Aug 5, 2013)

Thanks Andy the hole was clogged up but didn't make any improvements will have to look at it again tomorrow when I can see in the light but unless the lacquer smoothed out im not very hopefull and the base went on lovely blended in well. Not sure what to do as I only done one coat of lacquer as it was coming out like that didn't want to mess things up even more. So if its all lumpy should I wet flat it down with say 2000 and g3-Polish it or wet flat it back and just start again?

Previous attemps at sprayinh have never been this much of a disaster lol


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

tovtm said:


> Thanks Andy the hole was clogged up but didn't make any improvements will have to look at it again tomorrow when I can see in the light but unless the lacquer smoothed out im not very hopefull and the base went on lovely blended in well. Not sure what to do as I only done one coat of lacquer as it was coming out like that didn't want to mess things up even more. So if its all lumpy should I wet flat it down with say 2000 and g3-Polish it or wet flat it back and just start again?
> 
> Previous attemps at sprayinh have never been this much of a disaster lol


I'd be very doubtful if it will actually polish. It does sound like the problem is the spray gun, when was it last used. Id take it right apart and clean it thoroughly, put it back together and blow some thinners through it it to see of its working better. Reason i said i doubt it will polish is because it probably has got enough laquer on it to polish. So id say it more than likely be start again.


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## tovtm (Aug 5, 2013)

And you don't think adding more lacqure over the top woul do it any justice to wet flat and compound/polish.


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