# A play with polish and pads



## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

I had arranged to borrow the brother in law's Audi on Sunday for a bit of testing so the car was first washed and prepped up fully, and then rolled into the garage.

I was a little short for time, so first up the whole car apart for the bonnet was cleaned using the Flex, Sonus SFX-2 and Polycharged Carlack NSC buffed off and Collinite 915 Marque de Elegance applied and buffed off. The work was done in this order so I knew how long I had to play with the new stuff.










This left a rather nice finish that I know will protect the car until the summer and I can then return to fully machine the rest of the car.




























Next up was to get the Metal Halide light out and switch it on.




























Whilst this warms up I got the polish and pads to try out










Menzerna PO203s - Power Finish & PO85RE5 Final Finish together with some Detailers Domain easy identify pads.

Many thanks at this stage to Rich at Polished Bliss and Dave KG (and ultimately Phil at Detailers Domain).









The Power Finish is designed as a one step polish with a farther reach that existing PO106FA/FF. It has the finishing of 106 but with slightly more cut. So for soft to medium paints may offer a time and stage saving.

The Final Finish RE5 is a version of 85RD with more lubrication allowing longer, faster final burnishing or potentially a larger set area's using slower techniques.

The differentiation for the pads, is in an ever-growing world of multi coloured pad systems an attempt at simplifying pad chose to one complete range also buy displaying on the backing velcro the pad purpose. They are available in a nice selection of 6, 5 and 4 inch allowing tricky intricate panel areas to be catered for in line with the normal process.

Here we have the polishing pad selection (It says so clearly on the back )



















The light meanwhile had reached operating temp, it takes about 60 seconds.










The true finish of the bonnet can now be seen



















Expected normal Audi paint but first up the polishing pad and PO203S on the Rupes










The pad was primed with Meg #34 and then four spots of polish applied










This was worked over about a foot square until the polish was finished



















It had removed most of the lighter marring and left some of the deeper stuff to me with only a few microns removed an acceptable level of correction considering the cars age (It's an 07).

However with stuff to test I moved to the cutting pad (medium polish as the back denotes) with the PO203S and a new section on bonnet.




























The foam of this pad is much firmer and more like the green/orange 3M pads it softened up a little after the Megs #34 prime but was still quite firm to use.










It left much the same result, although the gloss was noticeably less. Material removal appeared no higher but I suspect the pad would work better with a courses polish/compound.

I know that some polish and pad combo's are more suited and I think in this cast the Polishing pad and PO203S work perfectly just the Audi paint was a little too tough for the pair to fully refine. What you would expect I suppose.

So step back down to the Polishing pad and step the polish up to some Menz 3.02



















Much better

So the centre section of the bonnet was done with this combo.

Next up a bit of further refining with the 85RE5 on the finishing pad.



















This appeared to work really well, the slight extra lube allowing a long work time. It'll take me a bit more practice to get the speed duration spot on I think , but it was a nice and relatively easy few sets. 85RD fans will be please to know this one also looked knockout 




























Brinkman for comparison



















Final bit of finishing to LSP like the rest of the car

The pad on the Flex showing the paint benefitted from a clean










915 applied










Following the 915 buff off










Macro flake shot




























To sum up

The pads are a nice spread of coarseness, the orange being a little firm for all but serious compounding, but then nice to have if you need it. I also have the s black glazing/waxing pads to try out which adds further strength to the range. For a man with favorites from a few ranges of pads, this range does appear to cater for all eventualities size and coarseness and I like that principle. The thickness feels nice on the six inch ones that I have used so far and the recess to the foam another nice safety feature.

PO 203S, although not enough here, was a fast cutting polish that appeared to finish up very well. I look forward trying this out on a slightly softer coating to really test it's ability. And also have a play next to 106FF to see how much extra cut is available.

PO85 RE5 keeps the tradition of a first class finish from 85RD but adds a little more lube, which can be viewed for safety or more intense burnishing. Either way it's no bad thing as jobs finishing with either of these two will normally be of the time-consuming type.

A great play for me, sorry about the amount of pictures and thanks are again extended to Rich, Dave and Phil.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

really wish I was well enough to have made it now, but I couldnt even stand up just before I rang you 

will give this a deeper read but looks good :thumb:


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Bigpikle said:


> really wish I was well enough to have made it now, but I couldnt even stand up just before I rang you
> 
> will give this a deeper read but looks good :thumb:


It was indeed a shame, I had to do all the work this time 

Apart from the car it's all still here if you are about just let me know mate.

I have a few more shiny things too


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

read it again now and all sounds promising. That 203 might be just the job on the Saab where 106 just doesnt cut it and 3.02 does, so maybe a middle ground that finishes nicely will mean a 1 step polish in future 

Just got 3/4 bottle of 85rd so hope this isnt significantly better :lol:


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Bigpikle said:


> Just got 3/4 bottle of 85rd so hope this isnt significantly better :lol:


Evolution for the detailer not revolution IMHO


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Thanks for sharing Jon, I look forward to trying the new Menz polishes.:thumb:


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

Thanks for the post Jon, up to your usual standards


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## ads2k (Jul 12, 2006)

Great review Jon :thumb:, you never stop ...... :lol:

Be interesting to see your thoughts when you attack some softer paint. Like the pads as well very good idea, I've written on the back of mine, but as you say 1 manufacturer that can offer the complete range of sizes and hardness' would be a good thing - shame I don't need any pads for about a million years, at the rate I use them anyway :lol:

Thanks again for the review.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Gleammachine said:


> Thanks for sharing Jon, I look forward to trying the new Menz polishes.:thumb:


Thanks Rob, I think the PO203S could add to the toolbox if working on time critical jobs but look forward to your thoughts.



Envy Valeting said:


> Thanks for the post Jon, up to your usual standards


Lots of pictures and waffle then Tim 

Appreciate the responses guys :thumb:


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## Nickos (Apr 27, 2006)

Excellent review, when's 203 due out in the uk ?


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## KleenChris (Apr 4, 2008)

Quality write up and excellent work :thumb:


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

ads2k said:


> Great review Jon :thumb:, you never stop ...... :lol:
> 
> Be interesting to see your thoughts when you attack some softer paint. Like the pads as well very good idea, I've written on the back of mine, but as you say 1 manufacturer that can offer the complete range of sizes and hardness' would be a good thing - shame I don't need any pads for about a million years, at the rate I use them anyway :lol:
> 
> Thanks again for the review.


Thanks Adam

I've a few more things to write up from Sunday too  it was a great session.

The black Honda Civic i did would have been a great test, 106FF made such a difference but this could potentially made more and in quicker sets.

The quality of the pads is very understated they washed up nice (hand washed) as well. I will put them back to the test when i can.

I also now have two part done cars to finish in the summer :doublesho


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Nickos said:


> Excellent review, when's 203 due out in the uk ?


Thanks

It's available now as far as I'm aware, but Menz orders are usually for about 1000 bottles so not too frequent for suppliers to order as i guess that costs a far bit.


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

Epoch said:


> Lots of pictures and waffle then Tim


Sometimes its spooky how you can read my mind:lol: No, in all seriousness your posts normally are informative, well written, make sense and have a purpose and in short...worth a read and good for gleaning information:buffer:


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Very good review there John, and your thoughts about the Detailers Domain pads pretty much mirror mine on my first outings with them as well. Interesting read on the new Menzerna polishes as well, be keen to see what they can offer alongside their siblings and new offerings from Meguiars in the months to come.

I'll put my thoughts about the Detailers Domain pads up soon, but wanting to give them a few uses to check their durability as well


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Dave KG said:


> Very good review there John, and your thoughts about the Detailers Domain pads pretty much mirror mine on my first outings with them as well. Interesting read on the new Menzerna polishes as well, be keen to see what they can offer alongside their siblings and new offerings from Meguiars in the months to come.
> 
> I'll put my thoughts about the Detailers Domain pads up soon, but wanting to give them a few uses to check their durability as well


As said I appreciate the opportunity to try them out Dave

I really like the all encompassing approach to the range the inclusion of a 5 and 6 may appear unessesary at first glance but for sides etc. I prefer to uses a slighly smaller backing plate and pad to aid my thought process on working out section areas four would be too small for this the 5 more useful.

I know others can easily polish anywhere but i'm as yet far happier varying my pad size as a metal gear change to area etc.

It would have been nice to try the 3.02 on the orange pad and 106ff on the 5 inch green pad but that will have to wait for another day


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## Christian6984 (Dec 20, 2007)

very nice review indeed, that light looks cracking for showing defects


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Epoch said:


> As said I appreciate the opportunity to try them out Dave
> 
> I really like the all encompassing approach to the range the inclusion of a 5 and 6 may appear unessesary at first glance but for sides etc. I prefer to uses a slighly smaller backing plate and pad to aid my thought process on working out section areas four would be too small for this the 5 more useful.
> 
> ...


There's only so much you can do in a day  ... I find myself spending hours at the unit, only to get a phone call from my better half wondering where the hell I am when I said I was nipping out for an hour to wash the car! :lol::lol:

I know what you mean about varied sizes and again this is well geared to those who like flexibility - its has its plus and minus points, but for those new to machine polishing and new to machine control, having pads sized well for the panel do make your life easier than having pads just a bit too big. I like this approach too as it is well set out to offer as much to all groups.


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## Mark M (Nov 29, 2006)

Excellent review Jon 

Looking forward to the new Menz!


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## nicks16v (Jan 7, 2009)

Hi Epoch. Newbie question. Did you do the whole car with the flex, then do it again with the rotary? I got a little confused, as I saw some spot pads, but know the flex would not accept them, they were for the rotary I take it?


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

nicks16v said:


> Hi Epoch. Newbie question. Did you do the whole car with the flex, then do it again with the rotary? I got a little confused, as I saw some spot pads, but know the flex would not accept them, they were for the rotary I take it?


No worries

I paint cleansed the whole car apart from the bonnet with the Flex on a 5 inch SFX pad.

Then did the polishing using the new 6 inch pads, the smaller ones were to demonstrate more of the scale of the full range.

It's huge










The flex would be better suited to the 5s IMHO, another string if you have both a rotary and a Flex i suppose


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Christian6984 said:


> very nice review indeed, that light looks cracking for showing defects


Thanks,

Would have been easier to follow as a 5 min video i suspect though 

I am hankering after a few more to fit them in the ceiling, but they arn't cheap, these bulb's particularly.

It makes the defects stand out from the colour layer, more so than the pics can reflect. One of my fave things for the garage so far 

Only thing is it gets hot (only halogens hot though) and you need to leave it to cool down once you switch it off or it doesn't ignite.


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## maesal (Nov 24, 2005)

I hope using this pads this weekend, they look superb !!
I'm using the PO85RE5 for around 3 years and I prefer the 85RD, but all 3 Final Finish are great.
The 203 is a nice polish, and if you try using it with wool (a nice wool, of course), you'll be amazed with the correction and finish achieved.
Thanks for the review Epoch


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

maesal said:


> I hope using this pads this weekend, they look superb !!
> I'm using the PO85RE5 for around 3 years and I prefer the 85RD, but all 3 Final Finish are great.
> The 203 is a nice polish, and if you try using it with wool (a nice wool, of course), you'll be amazed with the correction and finish achieved.
> Thanks for the review Epoch


HHHhmmmm Wool hadn't thought of that, missed a trick there

cheers i'll give that a try


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## maesal (Nov 24, 2005)

Epoch said:


> HHHhmmmm Wool hadn't thought of that, missed a trick there
> 
> cheers i'll give that a try


The purple ones from Lake Country are great, and also the Tuf Buf from Micro Surface. They don't create marring and works superb.
Cheers Epoch.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Thanks I'll have a look around the UK distributors for those.

My wool collection is mainly Megs (solo) and 3M, although Dom (Dodo) did have a nice posh sheep one I saw recently


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

havent found the purpple foamed wool anywhere in the Uk yet, but its supposed to be a great pad :thumb:

The Edge wool pads are very nice IMHO, if you dont mind the adapter. The polishing and finishing wool are lovely to use in fact, even for a inexperienced user like me


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Bigpikle said:


> havent found the purpple foamed wool anywhere in the Uk yet, but its supposed to be a great pad :thumb:
> 
> The Edge wool pads are very nice IMHO, if you dont mind the adapter. The polishing and finishing wool are lovely to use in fact, even for a inexperienced user like me


I rather fancy a double set of the full range of Edge stuff to coincide with all three adaptors (PC/Rotary and Flex) as I have always liked the idea of interchangability.

It's a very hefty outlay though for me to play with.

I do rememeber your Edge wool on the Dodo day finishing pretty well though


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

Nice bit of testing there and good to see Carlack egtting an outing 

We have had PO85RE5 in about 2 yars ago and I always found PO85RD to be the better finishing polish which is why we plumped for selling that at the time. In truth it's hard to tell the differnece, but I think Menz rate it as having slightly less gloss.

I'm not totally sold on 203 either. If you are using it as a polish before a final finish, it just doesn't seem to have enough bite and the finish of PO85RD3.02 is so close to it, like you I'd tend to reach for that instead. If you wanted to use it as a finishing polish then both PO106FA and PO85RD are better so I find it hard to see where it would fit.

I think it's more a factory use polish for getting quick acceptable results, rather than a detailer product where people are looking for perfection.

Tim


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

CleanYourCar said:


> Nice bit of testing there and good to see Carlack egtting an outing
> 
> We have had PO85RE5 in about 2 yars ago and I always found PO85RD to be the better finishing polish which is why we plumped for selling that at the time. In truth it's hard to tell the differnece, but I think Menz rate it as having slightly less gloss.
> 
> ...


IIRC The Menz gloss rating for both RD and RE5 are the same. My understanding was that it was the same base abrasive, but a slightly altered emulsion giving the different level of lubrication. I'd agree owning both may be a little fanatical, but it may well help the pro's who come up against differeing paint types where response is varied regularly. 85RD is not replaced or superceeded here just given a wider useage.

I also know i've yet to play with high speed jewelling where more lube, something i had intedned to do using white parafin, will be invaluable.

The basis for PO203S was the quick finishing polish developed for OEM use however i'd disagree with the product it potentailly displaces.

I did a black Honda recently where 106FF really did the business in the time frame given, however i'd have liked myself to have been able to have improved the finish further given the breif was a hand back for presentation. The PO203S may well have given me more of an edge.

As a hobbiest where time is largely irrelavant I'd always want to finish with one of the 85's as i know this gives the best finish (If my technique is good enough). If however I had of been doing this vehcile for anything more than fun with it only being 12 to 18 months old I'd not have wanted to advise any more than minimal material removal for maximum effect. 106FF would not have cut it where as 203S may have done enough. A double set with 3.02 and 85 would surely be a waste of clear coat and time given the likely re-occurasnce of damage.

For the professional guy's where time is ultimatley more important this offers more in one set and that will count.

For both of the above reasons I'd say the 106 was the polish that would be least replaced in either the hobbiest or pro tool kit.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Great little review John, very interesting, 

I also have a sample of the menz power finish and have had really good one step results with it, i found it dont finish down as well as a proper finishing polish but whats left can be cleaned up very easily with UF or alike. i have done a couple of full car corrections with it now and kind of got the hang of how it works, i found my self working it for to long to start with, it really dont need more than 4 or 5 passes (one set) to do its thing.

Definitely one to have in the bag.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

james b said:


> Great little review John, very interesting,
> 
> I also have a sample of the menz power finish and have had really good one step results with it, i found it dont finish down as well as a proper finishing polish but whats left can be cleaned up very easily with UF or alike. i have done a couple of full cars corrections with it now and kind of got the hang of how it works, i found my self working it for to long to start with, it really dont need more than 4 or 5 passes (one set) to do its thing.


Interesting on it not finishing down as well, this appears to concurn with Tim's theory. I didn't find the finish it left to be far if anything away from 85 on the first outing but more play will be required..

I agree it cuts quickly though :thumb:


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Epoch said:


> Interesting on it not finishing down as well, this appear to concurn with Tim theory. I didn't find the finish it left to be far if anything away from 85 on the first outing.
> 
> Agree it cuts quickly though :thumb:


Im pretty critical about clarity of finish and feel for what it takes (1 a hour or so) to finish of with Ultrafina, if you have spent 2-3 days on a car that one extra hour is well worth it for the enhancement it gives the finish.

The power finish was not leaving a bad finish at all (about what 3.02 leaves when finishing down well) i have used it on Soft Nissan paint and med Vauxhall paint and i was using it on a new Megs polishing pad, im yet to have a go with the new finishing polish, but im looking forward to it, if its anything like the power finish.


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## Nickos (Apr 27, 2006)

I've heard power finish is good on the LCC Green polishing pad, especially on harder paint. Something that may be worth a test.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

james b said:


> Im pretty critical about clarity of finish and feel for what it takes (1 a hour or so) to finish of with Ultrafina, if you have spent 2-3 days on a car that one extra hour is well worth it for the enhancement it gives the finish.
> 
> The power finish was not leaving a bad finish at all (about what 3.02 leaves when finishing down well) i have used it on Soft Nissan paint and med Vauxhall paint and i was using it on a new Megs polishing pad, im yet to have a go with the new finishing polish, but im looking forward to it, if its anything like the power finish.


Maybe that's an achilles heal it may be too strong for soft paint. More testing is deffo required by me at least.

I fully appreciate what you are saying on the finishing James


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Nickos said:


> I've heard power finish is good on the LCC Green polishing pad, especially on harder paint. Something that may be worth a test.


Thanks

It might appear stange this, but i think the DD pads are made by Lake County so the polishing pad here (Green) might actually be a similar foam.


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## Finerdetails (Apr 30, 2006)

Great post, yet again Jon.

I agree with you about the 203s and from my working with it, it is very good and carrys a useful place in the range.

The light, however, looks more intriging to me


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

Great write up! I have been a user of RE5 for the last 3 years and the gloss I can get from that is similar to 85RD. I can't remember if RE5 is better lubed but all I know is that I can work RE5 for ages even at high rpms(wich I prefere). 

According to Menzerna, PO203S have the same cut as RD3.02, but .5 better in gloss. I have not tested PO203S yet, but I have have heard that PO203S have more, less and similar cut to RD3.02. But I think it will be a great one punch with a polishing pad, like the green LC who is a small favourite, but PO203S with a foamed wool pad should cut pretty good as well, like Mario said.


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

I wanna know about the light!


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## maesal (Nov 24, 2005)

Epoch said:


> Thanks I'll have a look around the UK distributors for those.
> 
> My wool collection is mainly Megs (solo) and 3M, although Dom (Dodo) did have a nice posh sheep one I saw recently


I bought the ones from LC in AutoGeek, and the Tuf Buf from Micro Surface, both in the US. I have also the Solo wool pads and I don't like them very much compared with other wools. I think they're worth a try, as they break down the abrassives faster and don't warm the paint very much.
Cheers :thumb:


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Finerdetails said:


> The light, however, looks more intriging to me





Wonderdetail said:


> I wanna know about the light!


It's bright and helps me see, anything else? :thumb:


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