# performance air filter yes or no



## stevept (Nov 22, 2009)

As title should i get one, my mum said she would get me one as a xmas present.
It would go in a focus c max 1.8 ghia


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

The open 'cone' filters no, not for me - they look nice but draw in too much hot air.

A freeflow washable element in the original airbox are a much better option IMO. They don't look as sexy and obviously only you know it's there, but if you're after an improvement in throttle response and maybe a few extra Bhp then it's the way to go.


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## stevept (Nov 22, 2009)

yeah sorry it would be a panel filter


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

as viper said a nice free flowing replacement panel filter would be the way to go, and also check for restrictions on the intake side of things to improve air feed to the airbox


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## stevept (Nov 22, 2009)

was looking at k&n, any other good ones to look for?


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Definitely!

I put a Pipercross panel filter in the Cougar last year and it felt a little more eager low down. Not sure if I got any more BHP and it doesn't seem to have had an effect on MPG but the throttle response is better. :thumb:


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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

stevept said:


> As title should i get one, my mum said she would get me one as a xmas present.
> It would go in a focus c max 1.8 ghia


No, a waste a money imo


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Just be careful with the oil you spray onto the filter as MAF sensors hate it, i just go with OEM paper filter.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

dennis said:


> No, a waste a money imo


how do you work that out, assuming the car is kept for the owner a few years it should easily pay for itself, a standard airfilter is probably about £10 where a aftermarket panels about £30 so after 3 years or services its paid for itself:wave:


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> Just be careful with the oil you spray onto the filter as MAF sensors hate it, i just go with OEM paper filter.


only if you over oil them:thumb:


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I put a K&N panel filter in the Legacy and its much better.


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

AMD Technik on here always use Pipercross, see the link below

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=134184

Kev


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Never seen a gain from these type of air filters


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

Shaun said:


> Never seen a gain from these type of air filters


Definitley an inprovement on my car, never had it measured but it pulls better going up hills.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Go for it, but check your Insurers won't rape you first, even though it is a panel filter, it still needs to be disclosed as it supposedly increases performance. 

Personally i like the open cone filters, I have a K&N Typhoon that sits in the wing with a drycharger cover on it, dyno proven guaranteed gains and it sounds immense!


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## stevept (Nov 22, 2009)

Only reason I want one is to improve mpg, not sure what else to try. I've tried shell v power that didn't do anything, normal shell fuel gives better mpg.


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## Bigbruno71 (Sep 28, 2010)

Ive got K&N panel filters in both my saab 9-3 150tdi and Clio 172 cup, bosses tts, little bros diesel impreza, mates rs4, all have given better acceleration and mpg. There's a company called jays performance on eBay operating out of Kincardine bridge, very good cheap and fast delivery.


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## Bigbruno71 (Sep 28, 2010)

Best £40 I've ever spent


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

I have tried K&N and Pipercross Panel Filters in my car and I now the K&N is the best as the Pipercross didnt fit very well and it dropped all of its oil into the bottom of the Airbox and was a real mess and it went all out of shape. I tried this after using the K&N and was curious as to which was best and I have gone back to the K&N. K&N are the experts and have been making Airfilters for years and they are really well made and fit like a snug glove which is how they should as you dont want any grit getting past the filter.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Shinyvec said:


> I have tried K&N and Pipercross Panel Filters in my car and I now the K&N is the best as the Pipercross didnt fit very well and it dropped all of its oil into the bottom of the Airbox and was a real mess and it went all out of shape. I tried this after using the K&N and was curious as to which was best and I have gone back to the K&N. K&N are the experts and have been making Airfilters for years and they are really well made and fit like a snug glove which is how they should as you dont want any grit getting past the filter.


My Pipercross fits like a glove and it sounds like there was WAY too much oil if it was going everywhere. It's meant to coat the filter, not be sopping with it.


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

It was brand new from Demon Tweeks and the fit was terrible as it kept on dropping into the airbox and the fact its so floppy didnt help


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Strange, mine just felt a bit tacky because of the oil and wasn't even what I'd call wet. They are a bit floppy but I don't see it as an issue once it's in the box.


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## e32chris (Sep 21, 2011)

ford spent millions developing the car, oem one for me, maybe get a slight improvement with k+n but dont think it would be a lot on smaller engine, maybe worth doing on a turbo'ed motor but not n/a 1.8 imo


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## Edstrung (Apr 6, 2009)

Had my normal K&N cone in mine for about a month less than I have had the car itself. I clean it probably once a year or so with the K&N filter cleaning kit and then re-oil it once it has been dried fully. Even though I always apply sparingly, I'll still wipe the outside with blue roll and the inside as best as possible to avoid any extra oil being sucked through. Never had a MAF die, but do I think that anyone who has suffered a MAF failiure has ever got as far as re-oiling their filter before blaming the filter? No 

Was there a performance gain? Don't know, it's a diesel.
How was the throttle response? Still lagged like a turbo diesel.
Have you noticed increase in economy? Well i was doing 60mpg so I thought I'd drive a little more spirited all the time and brought it down to 55mpg and was happy with that.
Has servicing been notably cheaper? Thinking about it, it'll be another 4 years of ownership and then I'll break even, from there on, the scrapyard is the limit of annual savings.
Any problems? The silver end plate with the K&N logo on fell off, which made me think about the temperatures in the engine bay. I glued it back on with Araldite and heat was no longer a problem 

Why did I buy it? Because it was Purple :thumb:
Wish you'd spent the cash on say, the handling? Yes


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## Bigbruno71 (Sep 28, 2010)

Surely getting the air into the engine with as little resistance as possible is the name of the game regardless of the size of the engine?


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## e32chris (Sep 21, 2011)

maybe, but a 2 percent increase in power on 150 bhp for example= 3bhp but on 300 bhp its 6 percent, would that really be noticed when driving??? i dont think so...plus more air in means more fuel to keep the mix correct or it will be running weak.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

I have a monster sport cone filter on my car and its brilliant. My car was dynoed 7bhp above standard and it sounds cool. Very happy with it


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## e32chris (Sep 21, 2011)

what car and what power standard?


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

e32chris said:


> what car and what power standard?


Swift sport and 124


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

VIPER said:


> The open 'cone' filters no, not for me - they look nice *but draw in too much hot air*.
> 
> A freeflow washable element in the original airbox are a much better option IMO. They don't look as sexy and obviously only you know it's there, but if you're after an improvement in throttle response and maybe a few extra Bhp then it's the way to go.


not always mark, induction kit on my fiesta places the filter inside a heat shield and well away from heat sources...


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## e32chris (Sep 21, 2011)

was the swift measured before and after the filter addition or is that based on manufacturers figures? you can put a car on 3 different rolling roads and get 3 different figures due to so many variables, far from 100% accurate.


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## ivor (Sep 24, 2008)

ford spent millions developing a car for durability and passenger comfort if you go to the tuning side of life it's a fair bit different if you are going to go for the air filter I would suggest a larger bore exhaust as that is when you will notice the difference, On the toy I have a 90mm pod filter and a 80mm exhaust with no cat it sounds great and spits flames but that is on a race tuned road car 

On the golf TDI I have a large bore exhaust but no aftermarket panel filter and that made an improvement to performance and fuel after it learnt there was not a cat anymore 

On an old rover 218 I done the filter and exhaust and that made a lot of difference to performance 

What you need to think about is the more air you take in the quicker it needs to go out most cars have a limited self learn function and will adjust the fuelling ,if you want to improve fuel economy it's a choice of going down the whole tuning road and spending a fortune or learn to drive differently.

you would be surprised how the economy can improve if your not stamping on the throttle and braking all the time (not saying that you do)


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

e32chris said:


> was the swift measured before and after the filter addition or is that based on manufacturers figures? you can put a car on 3 different rolling roads and get 3 different figures due to so many variables, far from 100% accurate.


No I didnt (I'm not paying another £60 to go on again just to see the actual increase). And I know there are many variables etc... but if we base all BHP figures on that then noone will ever know the actual power of any car.

The dyno I went on was in calibration and so that was enough for me. There were also a number or other swifts there which also ran on the dyno so Im quite confident to say the induction kit made a good difference.


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## stevept (Nov 22, 2009)

Rang my insurance company today said my excess would go up. 100 quid and premium would go up too, looks like I won't be upgrading my air filter.


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## Teddy (Dec 15, 2007)

I fitted a K&N to the other halfs 207CC. No idea if it improves performannce - if it isn't noticable it's not worth it as a performance modification but I bought it to avoid having to bin the standard filter every year or two. The fact the filter can be cleaned makes it worthwhile.

When we sell the car the filter will still be worth £20 to somebody as well. So it will easily pay for itself. Brilliant.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Teddy said:


> I fitted a K&N to the other halfs 207CC. No idea if it improves performannce - if it isn't noticable it's not worth it as a performance modification but I bought it to avoid having to bin the standard filter every year or two. The fact the filter can be cleaned makes it worthwhile.
> 
> When we sell the car the filter will still be worth £20 to somebody as well. So it will easily pay for itself. Brilliant.


On most cars it will make very little difference. Even if it gave you 15bhp your not that likely to notice to be honest. When twinned with other mods like an exhaust and remap then you can get some nice gains.


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## Lion (Sep 4, 2006)

Sorry to go slightly off topic here but.. 

I cant see why you would have to tell your insurance about a panel filter? Whether it be K&N, Fram, Wix etc, they are all still a panel filter based on the original design.
The K&N are oem warranty approved, just like most good aftermarket suppliers.

Surely that means that all those cars out there running aftermarket parts need to declared as "modified" as there car isnt standard anymore?
How many people dont use dealer parts, i would guess at 99% of the cars on the road have all got various parts on that are aftermarket parts, and items such as filters exhausts, suspention components etc all differ from the oe pattern slightly.

If it were a full induction kit then yes, as this is changing the oe setup, but not a panel filter. I wouldnt tell them. 

Back onto topic  

I have just bought a K&N replacement for my car so will let you know how i get on over the next few weeks, i got it for more the improved mpg and airflow, than performance, as my car seems to be dropping mpg at the minute in town (only returning 22-24mpg according to the computer!!), and i suspect its due to the restrictive air filter, as mine has the paper element, with the cotton foam backing on as standard, and gets clogged within a month or 2.
I've had good results before with these filters on my old carbed vw golf (Didnt tell my insurance about that one either ) so i'm hoping the new replacements will be as good.


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

hoikey said:


> I have a monster sport cone filter on my car and its brilliant. My car was dynoed 7bhp above standard and it sounds cool. Very happy with it


7bhp is around 5bhp max at the wheels. In off the shelf cars i've seen 10bhp @ wheels difference so I would take it with a pinch of salt.

Only way to test it is on the same day at the same dyno. Even changing days can make a difference as the air temp will affect the numbers.


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

Shinyvec said:


> I have tried K&N and Pipercross Panel Filters in my car and I now the K&N is the best as the Pipercross didnt fit very well and it dropped all of its oil into the bottom of the Airbox and was a real mess and it went all out of shape. I tried this after using the K&N and was curious as to which was best and I have gone back to the K&N. K&N are the experts and have been making Airfilters for years and they are really well made and fit like a snug glove which is how they should as you dont want any grit getting past the filter.


Strange considering i read this thread..
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=1799663&postcount=259

Kev


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Pipercross come pre-oiled and need re-oiling whenever you clean them so not sure about them being "dry filters"...

Mine was oiled and has been re-oiled since using the Pipercross cleaning kit.


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## minimadgriff (Jul 8, 2007)

millns84 said:


> Pipercross come pre-oiled and need re-oiling whenever you clean them so not sure about them being "dry filters"...
> 
> Mine was oiled and has been re-oiled since using the Pipercross cleaning kit.


Sell them day in, day out and for alot of applications, alot of Pipercross are dry filters. :thumb: All VAG fitment filters are dry. It depends on application, as some cars are more prone to MAF failure when using oiled filters. Others aren't, Ford being one of them.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

http://www.pipercross.net/competition/technical.asp


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## minimadgriff (Jul 8, 2007)

Last paragraph on that page



> *Please only use approved Pipercross oils on our foam laminate filters as directed. Do not oil Pipercross "dry" foam


:thumb:

That link is for the Competetion filters, these generally are oiled because they are a more free flowing foam so need that extra bit of help to catch particles.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Don't want to sound pedantic, but the cleaning instructions do state:

The cleaning of a Pipercross air filter should be carried out as below. Failure to do this could result in damage to the air filter or even the vehicle.
1.Remove excess dirt by gently brushing the filter.
2.Apply cleaning additive (C9003 or C9000) liberally. Massage in with soft brush. Allow to soak for around 5 minutes.
3.Flush the filter out with warm water from the clean side of the foam to the dirty side.
4.Allow the filter to dry naturally (do not apply any heat to the filter!!)
5.Lightly apply dirt retention additive (C9007 or C9001) on the dirty (black) side of the foam.

Steps 2-4 may need to be repeated until the filter is clean. Do not over oil the foam as this will cause a lack of performance.

- Straight from the panel filter section of the Pipercross website and I'm pretty sure this is what it said on the box too.


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## minimadgriff (Jul 8, 2007)

If you like I can take a photo of at least 20 boxes that say "DRY- No oil" when I am back at work Tuesday. :thumb:

But as said this doesn't apply for all cars as they don't all suffer the same issues caused by oiling filters. If it doesn't say "DRY - No Oil" on the box then it will be oiled and those cleaning instructions will apply.



> How would fitting Pipercross improve your VW?
> Unlike many of Pipercross' competitors, much of the research and development has been specifically spent on the tuning of Volkswagens. Rather than using an oil impregnated air filter, which can unrepairably damage your air sensor a special oil free or "dry" multi-layer foam air filter has been produced. This guarantee's a high airflow rate improving the vehicles power without the risk of damaging your intake system and offering the highest of engine protection against dust and dirt.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Bizarre - doesn't seem to make any sense, especially given that their website states that they should be re-oiled.


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## jebus (Jun 2, 2009)

each to there own on filters, they will work better with some cars than others but they are only part of proper power gains, just now left over from the last owner my car has a cone filter fitted, is getting replaced soon with standard airbox and paper filter since i don't want it, noise is addictive though but on my little 1.8 toledo it not going to do anything so rather stick with standard, my next car will be a lot more performance based and will plan on a better air filter setup, if gains would be worth it along with other little tweaks.


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## minimadgriff (Jul 8, 2007)

millns84 said:


> Bizarre - doesn't seem to make any sense, especially given that their website states that they should be re-oiled.


You will be fine oiling yours as it is meant to be oiled. Fords don't suffer like VAGs/BMWs do when using an oiled filter.

My Focus RS, runs a mahooosive enclosed cone filter and it is an oiled one as the type of filter it is needs oil to filter properly but being a Ford it will be fine :lol:


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## Lion (Sep 4, 2006)

Steve - Dont know if your still interested in getting one of these, but i would say dont bother wasting your money.
Had one fitted in my car for app 2 weeks now and it hasn't done a thing. mpg is still sat at 22 - I've calculated it aswell to be sure and its used the same amount of fuel, and the car goes no better than it did with the standard filter in either.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Rob_Quads said:


> 7bhp is around 5bhp max at the wheels. In off the shelf cars i've seen 10bhp @ wheels difference so I would take it with a pinch of salt.
> 
> Only way to test it is on the same day at the same dyno. Even changing days can make a difference as the air temp will affect the numbers.


On a 1.6 NA car I was happy with 7bhp. and I've already said the last bit so thanks for confirning that :thumb:


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