# New Lens or Camera Time?



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Well liked my eos70d and 18-200mm lens, but I know won’t to get a 24-70 and f2.8 70-200 and as much as I would love L series lenses I just can’t justify the cost.
So do I go Sigma that I have been very pleased with in past or venture into Tamaron?

The other one I really want to explore full frame but 5D again to expensive, so 6D mk2 , I want for fast Fran a decent video as well but mostly stills.
So for me car events and good wood and holidays and family pics, 6.5fps close to my 70d so ok with 6mk2 

Should I just get the f2.8 lenses and that will make massive difference or will the non Full frame mean it’s f4+? 

I was not sure if the combo of both would be a big step up for me


----------



## voon (Apr 28, 2010)

Can't comment on your lenses ... personally, I exchanged my 17-85 stock lens on the 60D with the better 15-85. Sounds like nothing for a lot of money .. but pictures are sharper, clearer now .. they're now actually fun. I find good glass way more important than the body, your 70D is good enough for absolutly great images. Also as you know, nothing you buy will ever make a crap composition or bad lighting good.


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

The current 18-200 was not cheap at time I think £550+ , the reason for better camera as well was for better low light shots without flash as just don’t like flash,was worried with great lens but current camera I would lose some of the brilliant blurred back ground shots I used to get on my eos10 film camera years ago


----------



## voon (Apr 28, 2010)

Such extensive Zooms are usually neither sharp nor lightintensive .. have you once tried out what a 50mm fix 1.8 (or 1.4 if you have the money) does or a smaller zoom range out of the expensive glasses (i.e. providing more light)? The difference is pretty amazing on an appropriate scene. Maybe you can lend them somewhere for a test?


----------



## Mikesphotaes (Jul 24, 2016)

Get the best lenses you can, usually that means f2.8 and the 70-200mm is the standard lens for motorsport.


----------



## Mikesphotaes (Jul 24, 2016)

voon said:


> Such extensive Zooms are usually neither sharp nor lightintensive .. have you once tried out what a 50mm fix 1.8 (or 1.4 if you have the money) does or a smaller zoom range out of the expensive glasses (i.e. providing more light)? The difference is pretty amazing on an appropriate scene. Maybe you can lend them somewhere for a test?


You would need to be very close to the action to get good captures with a 50mm.


----------



## JoeyJoeJo (Jan 3, 2014)

My humble opinion - if there's nothing wrong with your camera, invest in the glass, end of the day, replacement bodies are pretty cheap.

I had a sigma f2.8 70-200 back in the day and it was fantastic, surprisingly versatile and great results.


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Mikesphotaes said:


> Get the best lenses you can, usually that means f2.8 and the 70-200mm is the standard lens for motorsport.


I was looking at the tamaron f2.8 but it looks like is does not have panning stabilisation, so been looking at the sigma F2.8 70-200


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

voon said:


> Such extensive Zooms are usually neither sharp nor lightintensive .. have you once tried out what a 50mm fix 1.8 (or 1.4 if you have the money) does or a smaller zoom range out of the expensive glasses (i.e. providing more light)? The difference is pretty amazing on an appropriate scene. Maybe you can lend them somewhere for a test?


Thanks I will have a look


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

JoeyJoeJo said:


> My humble opinion - if there's nothing wrong with your camera, invest in the glass, end of the day, replacement bodies are pretty cheap.
> 
> I had a sigma f2.8 70-200 back in the day and it was fantastic, surprisingly versatile and great results.


Sorry I missed your message , the 70d has served my well , I think the reason for the full frame was rather the conversion factor issue, but as the lens would would work well on them both , as you say might be better trying just the lens first.
Then that would leave some penny's for a drone?


----------



## jr2007 (Oct 5, 2016)

You already have a fairly new DSLR which is very capable so the upgrade to a 5D/6D series might not give the same back in value terms. The Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II on the other hand is probably the best lens I have ever bought, so much so that I call it the money shot maker! In my opinion, there isn't any other lens in the 70-200 spectrum (including primes) that can beat it on image quality at f/2.8 or below.

Yes it is a bit of a beast but the 70-200 produces the most amazing shots. The quality of the lens easily outresolves the sensor, there is minimal if any chromatic aberration and the sharpness is spot on - on portrait shots I actually introduce some softness because it captures the pores on skin in phenomenal detail. Have you looked at buying an imported lens from DigitalRev or HDEW? Canon provide worldwide warranties on their lenses so you won't have any issues getting with servicing, etc. at a UK Canon centre.

Something to bear in mind with the tamron/sigma 70-200 f2.8s is the level of focus breathing and whether you get true 200mm at the top end. I only have experience of the Canon but Tony Northrup did a video on all three and found there to be some shortcomings with the non-Canon lenses


----------



## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

Derekh929 said:


> Well liked my eos70d and 18-200mm lens, but I know won't to get a 24-70 and f2.8 70-200 and as much as I would love L series lenses I just can't justify the cost.
> So do I go Sigma that I have been very pleased with in past or venture into Tamaron?
> 
> The other one I really want to explore full frame but 5D again to expensive, so 6D mk2 , I want for fast Fran a decent video as well but mostly stills.
> ...


To point, you kind of get what you pay for - so if you're wanting a F2.8, then this is what you need to go for - choose either new or 2nd hand and this can make a difference...

Having just said that - have you thought about the Canon 70-200 F4, which they do as IS and non IS - non IS 2nd hand, £350 ish... A superb lens and was my first L series lens and the only reason I sold it was to buy the new F2.8 version (if I could have afforded to keep it, I would) - not a major issue being F4, but the F2.8 is better in low light, but it's a beast of a lens...

With regards to your crop body and question re F2.8 being F4 - No, still F2.8, it's the "apparent" focal length that alters with a crop body, so for ease of maths - a 100mm lens on full frame is 100mm, on a crop, i.e. apparent to 160mm (but will still be same F number).

It's a shame your so far away, you could have had a try with a couple of mine to see what you thought...

I'd decide what lens you'd ideally like - focal length, do you want IS or not (if an option), F number etc then go from there...

Something father in law told me when I started out, buy cheap, buy twice ! Don't go buying something that will do, if you want something else...

Any more questions, ask away :thumb:


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

jr2007 said:


> You already have a fairly new DSLR which is very capable so the upgrade to a 5D/6D series might not give the same back in value terms. The Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II on the other hand is probably the best lens I have ever bought, so much so that I call it the money shot maker! In my opinion, there isn't any other lens in the 70-200 spectrum (including primes) that can beat it on image quality at f/2.8 or below.
> 
> Yes it is a bit of a beast but the 70-200 produces the most amazing shots. The quality of the lens easily outresolves the sensor, there is minimal if any chromatic aberration and the sharpness is spot on - on portrait shots I actually introduce some softness because it captures the pores on skin in phenomenal detail. Have you looked at buying an imported lens from DigitalRev or HDEW? Canon provide worldwide warranties on their lenses so you won't have any issues getting with servicing, etc. at a UK Canon centre.
> 
> Something to bear in mind with the tamron/sigma 70-200 f2.8s is the level of focus breathing and whether you get true 200mm at the top end. I only have experience of the Canon but Tony Northrup did a video on all three and found there to be some shortcomings with the non-Canon lenses Tamron, Sigma & Canon 70-200 f/2.8 Portrait Lens Review: Do you need the name brand? - YouTube


Thanks for the info, I have read a few reviews and this is why I asked for advice as some saying the tamaron not good for motorsport etc and others saying ok with stabilisation off.
Yes was aware of grey import route and have used in past for non glass and body purchases, was not aware ok to get warranty and repairs in UK know so good to know, and would be happy to buy from the two you mentioned as looked at them before.
I will have a look at this tonight , its probably like a which wax thread on the photo forums
So with body I was kind of happy to retain and even if I was to get 6d in future would likely keep the 70d as back up.
So the most I will gain is quality glass first and see what that does.
What other really good wide angles are there out there?

So this is the one?

https://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/canon-ef-70-200mm-f28l-is-ii-usm-496-p.asp

At that price not a lot more than UK tamaron one and I suppose keep value well?


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Andyblue said:


> To point, you kind of get what you pay for - so if you're wanting a F2.8, then this is what you need to go for - choose either new or 2nd hand and this can make a difference...
> 
> Having just said that - have you thought about the Canon 70-200 F4, which they do as IS and non IS - non IS 2nd hand, £350 ish... A superb lens and was my first L series lens and the only reason I sold it was to buy the new F2.8 version (if I could have afforded to keep it, I would) - not a major issue being F4, but the F2.8 is better in low light, but it's a beast of a lens...
> 
> ...


Thanks for the Info, yes it seems everyone thinking body fine but improve glass good to know as may free up some monies for a drone

I though about the F4 but I just loved the blurred back ground shots taking car pics etc and struggling with current lens with that, also need to do some panning when away at motorsport stuff.
I would be happy with used if im honest and have been looking at wex etc used one. So IS would be best for me? if doing motor sport or fast moving stuff, also other lens to complement this one at 20mm upwards, thanks Derek


----------



## jr2007 (Oct 5, 2016)

Derekh929 said:


> Thanks for the info, I have read a few reviews and this is why I asked for advice as some saying the tamaron not good for motorsport etc and others saying ok with stabilisation off.
> Yes was aware of grey import route and have used in past for non glass and body purchases, was not aware ok to get warranty and repairs in UK know so good to know, and would be happy to buy from the two you mentioned as looked at them before.
> I will have a look at this tonight , its probably like a which wax thread on the photo forums
> So with body I was kind of happy to retain and even if I was to get 6d in future would likely keep the 70d as back up.
> ...


That's the one from HDEW, incredible price too! I bought my old 60D and current 7D MkII from them when it came out and both have been faultless. My uncle got both a 5D II and 5D III from them and equally had great experiences.

You might find you would be better off sticking with the 70D until you can go for a 5D MkIV upgrade, assuming you want to buy new. My personal opinion is that too many compromises have been made in the 6D to stop it undercutting 5D sales for it to be a viable option. It's still a lot of money and for that you could get a decent condition used 5D III, a much better proposition for the same cash.


----------



## jr2007 (Oct 5, 2016)

Derekh929 said:


> Thanks for the Info, yes it seems everyone thinking body fine but improve glass good to know as may free up some monies for a drone
> 
> I though about the F4 but I just loved the blurred back ground shots taking car pics etc and struggling with current lens with that, also need to do some panning when away at motorsport stuff.
> I would be happy with used if im honest and have been looking at wex etc used one. So IS would be best for me? if doing motor sport or fast moving stuff, also other lens to complement this one at 20mm upwards, thanks Derek


In general terms the need for IS is heavily reduced when shooting with a fast shutter speed such as when outdoors. However if you are regularly shooting at the 200m range, you can still get a small amount of camera shake even at relatively high shutter speeds. I consider IS to be a safety net, it won't correct big movements but it will keep your shots in check when you are close to the limit.

For wider angle lenses, IS is not needed as much because the perceptibility of camera shake blur is far less. However as mentioned IS is always useful to have as a safety net! If the budget stretches, a 16-35mm f/4L IS delivers fantastic image quality for a relatively small cost (in terms of L lenses).


----------



## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

Derekh929 said:


> Thanks for the Info, yes it seems everyone thinking body fine but improve glass good to know as may free up some monies for a drone
> 
> I though about the F4 but I just loved the blurred back ground shots taking car pics etc and struggling with current lens with that, also need to do some panning when away at motorsport stuff.
> I would be happy with used if im honest and have been looking at wex etc used one. So IS would be best for me? if doing motor sport or fast moving stuff, also other lens to complement this one at 20mm upwards, thanks Derek


For panning, generally no to IS as you're moving, the new F2.8 MKII has several options for IS, but I tend to switch all off, unless doing a slow pan to blur the background and give a real sense of speed of the car - even then, only tend to use it if it's cold and I'm struggling to keep perfectly still 

IS is brilliant for stationary shots at low shutter speeds and def worth while, but tends to carry a price tag over the non IS version...

If you're doing car stationary shots and really want a blurred background, then the simple 50mm F1.8 isn't be missed :thumb:


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

jr2007 said:


> That's the one from HDEW, incredible price too! I bought my old 60D and current 7D MkII from them when it came out and both have been faultless. My uncle got both a 5D II and 5D III from them and equally had great experiences.
> 
> You might find you would be better off sticking with the 70D until you can go for a 5D MkIV upgrade, assuming you want to buy new. My personal opinion is that too many compromises have been made in the 6D to stop it undercutting 5D sales for it to be a viable option. It's still a lot of money and for that you could get a decent condition used 5D III, a much better proposition for the same cash.


Yes that's what I was worried about with the body the sensor may not be a big jump form my 70d with consumer full frame entry point, also some say view finder 98 not 100% , yes I would love a 5D III or IV but at present could not justifie that cost when I have another big toy in the garage I enjoy immensely
Yes may well just go lens first then wait till next version of the 5d out and the current drops a bit to allow me to justify getting one.

Yes I think the price at wex £1,979 at present if exactly the same, at the £1,200 mark I might be tempted at the canon but at £1,700 plus not a chance for my use. The weather proofing is in the back of my mind as I used to like taking pics of trawlers in stormy weather entering ports years and years ago with the eos10


----------



## jr2007 (Oct 5, 2016)

Derekh929 said:


> Yes that's what I was worried about with the body the sensor may not be a big jump form my 70d with consumer full frame entry point, also some say view finder 98 not 100% , yes I would love a 5D III or IV but at present could not justifie that cost when I have another big toy in the garage I enjoy immensely
> Yes may well just go lens first then wait till next version of the 5d out and the current drops a bit to allow me to justify getting one.
> 
> Yes I think the price at wex £1,979 at present if exactly the same, at the £1,200 mark I might be tempted at the canon but at £1,700 plus not a chance for my use. The weather proofing is in the back of my mind as I used to like taking pics of trawlers in stormy weather entering ports years and years ago with the eos10


I've used the 70-200 in torrential storms in Bali, as long as you have a decent protection filter on the front like this http://amzn.to/2HYVCg3 you won't have any problems in the wet (obviously body weather-proofing permitted!).


----------



## jr2007 (Oct 5, 2016)

To help you pull the trigger on the 70-200, I'll post a couple of pics I took with it in the stickied post. Without meaning to sound like a broken record, I really do think it's the best lens within its focal range.


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

jr2007 said:


> I've used the 70-200 in torrential storms in Bali, as long as you have a decent protection filter on the front like this http://amzn.to/2HYVCg3 you won't have any problems in the wet (obviously body weather-proofing permitted!).


I will look out for the pics, I'm a canon fan boy to a point, and apple addict, just got a new Mac bookpro with great discount and getting 27" 4K to use with my doc, been converting and editing my old hi8 videos.
My body currently would have little waterproofing good point but at least lens would.
I noticed on lens video he reconned not getting the full 200mm on the other lenses that was interesting, are the 1.4 converters any good?


----------



## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

Derekh929 said:


> I will look out for the pics, I'm a canon fan boy to a point, and apple addict, just got a new Mac bookpro with great discount and getting 27" 4K to use with my doc, been converting and editing my old hi8 videos.
> My body currently would have little waterproofing good point but at least lens would.
> I noticed on lens video he reconned not getting the full 200mm on the other lenses that was interesting, are the 1.4 converters any good?


The Canon 1.4TC MKIII is very good - I've used it with my 300mm F4 IS, and other lenses and not noticed any degradation in picture quality or speed of focus...

Don't forget it adds 1 stop to your lens - so F2.8 becomes F4, F4 becomes F5.6 etc...


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Andyblue said:


> The Canon 1.4TC MKIII is very good - I've used it with my 300mm F4 IS, and other lenses and not noticed any degradation in picture quality or speed of focus...
> 
> Don't forget it adds 1 stop to your lens - so F2.8 becomes F4, F4 becomes F5.6 etc...


Thanks that's great info, I'm slowly getting my head round it all again been a bit lazy last couple of years not using AV On manual setting poor I know

Sound promising to say having to have another longer length:thumb:


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Andyblue said:


> For panning, generally no to IS as you're moving, the new F2.8 MKII has several options for IS, but I tend to switch all off, unless doing a slow pan to blur the background and give a real sense of speed of the car - even then, only tend to use it if it's cold and I'm struggling to keep perfectly still
> 
> IS is brilliant for stationary shots at low shutter speeds and def worth while, but tends to carry a price tag over the non IS version...
> 
> If you're doing car stationary shots and really want a blurred background, then the simple 50mm F1.8 isn't be missed :thumb:


Thanks Andy I will have a look at the 50mm f1.8 as well, I used to love taking panning shots with blurred back ground with slow pan, on my last camera before this one


----------



## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

Derekh929 said:


> Thanks Andy I will have a look at the 50mm f1.8 as well, I used to love taking panning shots with blurred back ground with slow pan, on my last camera before this one


If you want a long lens for panning motorsport -the 300 F4 L IS is a belter of a lens and you can get some superb background blurred shots with it - I'll see if I can find the Jag e-type photo I took with it, slow shutter speed and a long focal length - properly nice 

And as I said, works very well with a 1.4TC - gives it 420mm focal length and then on your crop body an effective 670mm :doublesho


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Andyblue said:


> If you want a long lens for panning motorsport -the 300 F4 L IS is a belter of a lens and you can get some superb background blurred shots with it - I'll see if I can find the Jag e-type photo I took with it, slow shutter speed and a long focal length - properly nice
> 
> And as I said, works very well with a 1.4TC - gives it 420mm focal length and then on your crop body an effective 670mm :doublesho


Is this the one Andy? Fixed length

https://www.wexphotovideo.com/canon...MIw7_f0LTO2QIVLbXtCh2PywjNEAQYAiABEgLFevD_BwE

670mm


----------



## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

Derekh929 said:


> Is this the one Andy? Fixed length
> 
> https://www.wexphotovideo.com/canon...MIw7_f0LTO2QIVLbXtCh2PywjNEAQYAiABEgLFevD_BwE
> 
> 670mm


Yup


----------



## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

I know very little about cameras or photography but I do own a 60D and to me it's fabulous. I need to get a bit more clued up about it and get more use out of it.


----------



## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

c87reed said:


> I know very little about cameras or photography but I do own a 60D and to me it's fabulous. I need to get a bit more clued up about it and get more use out of it.


Ask away / start a new thread or drop a PM and I'll see if i can help...

The 60D is a very capable body and you should be getting great results with it


----------



## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

Andyblue said:


> Ask away / start a new thread or drop a PM and I'll see if i can help...
> 
> The 60D is a very capable body and you should be getting great results with it


Cheers Andy, that's great to know.

It has given some great results even with being set to auto. I worked over the summer in a children's summer camp in the USA a few years back and another lad who was photographing the different activities throughout the day had one. Whilst he wasn't a pro or anything, he did know his way around a camera, and so I knew what it could produce. It cost me around £600 iirc with the 18-135 lens, which was a few hundred quid cheaper than it was in the UK.


----------



## Mikesphotaes (Jul 24, 2016)

Derekh929 said:


> I was looking at the tamaron f2.8 but it looks like is does not have panning stabilisation, so been looking at the sigma F2.8 70-200


My advice would be to try a few secondhand 70-200mm Canon IS lenses.


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Mikesphotaes said:


> My advice would be to try a few secondhand 70-200mm Canon IS lenses.


Thanks Mike I think I'm going to monitor used prices and new grey import etc on camera price buster that I have used it past to see if could get the canon:thumb:
As the consensus seems to be pointing to some compromises with the other two in areas that may well be important for what I want to do with it


----------



## Mikesphotaes (Jul 24, 2016)

Derekh929 said:


> Thanks Mike I think I'm going to monitor used prices and new grey import etc on camera price buster that I have used it past to see if could get the canon:thumb:
> As the consensus seems to be pointing to some compromises with the other two in areas that may well be important for what I want to do with it


Might be worth while joining Talkphotography.

They have a sale section, once you've made a certain number of posts.


----------

