# Should apprentices be taxed?



## vickky453 (Feb 27, 2009)

Just a general question, should an apprentice be taxed? Im getting like £170 a week and theres no way I can survive on that! ( Live on my own etc)


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Why should they not? 

Most apprentices are young people living at home with parents and £170 per week whilst training isn't bad. 

At your earnings and tax code you can't be paying that much tax anyways. 

There is loads of other people working for minimum wage with little scope of getting a trade or further education to get away from minimum wage. 

Where do you draw the line? 

Nobody likes paying tax but if nobody puts money in the pot, there is no money to come out the pot. 

Looks like you will need to grin and bear in for the remainder of your apprenticeship.


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## Stevesuds (Jun 11, 2012)

How many hours a week is that? How old are you?


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## chisai (Jan 1, 2009)

Course they should, for the reasons above. You could ask the same question of stacks of jobs/people.


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

I don't personally think that apprentice wages are fair but I do think if your earn you pay tax. To be honest though I know/have heard of many apprentices getting far less than you - 50 quid a week in some shocking cases. As stated it will only be negligible. We all need to start somewhere. I was happy to work for minimum wage for many years going through higher education. I'm now earning much more than that but with that comes a mortgage, more tax, and loads of bills etc.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

You will probably find that your company applies for training grants to pay for your training too. 

You will already be assisted with tax money. 

Put some in, get some out is the way it works. 

Just wait until the day you have to pay 40% to the taxman.


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

I think paying tax gets easier with age. Not that it ever is easy but you just accept thats the way of life. At first I guess you feel like you have earn't it and its all yours. I did for many years. At some point you will need the benefit of the NHS/fire/ambulance and many other services your tax helps pay for. 

If it makes you feel any better think of the fact that if your paying tax your earning something. Which cant be said for a lot of the UK population. Be grateful you have a job! lol


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

People forget that only half the UK population works. 

The rest are too young but require medical care, schooling etc, many unemployed and receiving benefits, even loads working but getting benefits on top of their earning plus all the retired people too. 

The average salary in the UK is about £25k meaning people will be taxed at 23% for about £17k of their salary and the rest tax free. 

Just thinking about it that way you understand that taxes have to be added everywhere else to make up the shortfall.


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## Crispo (Mar 23, 2011)

As an ex apprentice most of the training is paid for by grants from the government which is paid for by tax. All my college training and courses were paid for by the college and the company paid my wages. If we didn't pay tax the college wouldn't be able to fund the training. To get paid to have an education and qualifications is an extremely lucky position to be in. I'm extremely grateful to my apprenticeship and the tax money that contributed to it.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

weve got an apprentice and he pays tax.but he gets 300 a week,so i see your point.taxing you on your wage is a bit much afaic.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Dj.xray said:


> weve got an apprentice and he pays tax.but he gets 300 a week,so i see your point.taxing you on your wage is a bit much afaic.


Loads of people earn more than double that. On that logic earning £300 per week he shouldn't be paying tax either.

Remember tax is paid as a percentage. So when you earn £170 you are going to pay far less tax than someone getting £300 per week.

£170 per week is £8840 per year. The standard tax code is 810L meaning all Vicky is getting taxed on is £740 per year.

I think at this level she will only be taxed at 10% which is £74 per year.

It is only a small amount of what she is getting back out.


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## MazdaMan (Jul 23, 2006)

Correct me if im wrong but i think its changing so anyone earning under £10,000 will not pay tax


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

MazdaMan said:


> Correct me if im wrong but i think its changing so anyone earning under £10,000 will not pay tax


That will be the case eventually..

The tax paid on £170 per week will be Very Very little !!


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Kerr said:


> Loads of people earn more than double that. On that logic earning £300 per week he shouldn't be paying tax either.
> 
> Remember tax is paid as a percentage. So when you earn £170 you are going to pay far less tax than someone getting £300 per week.
> 
> ...


Yeah i know how tax works im a qualified chipie i do pay it and alot of it..when i was his age i never got that much.the boy who works with us is 18.and 300 a weeks good money afaic..i just think being an apprentice like vikky on her wage,the goverment should give more of an incentive to people like her who want to learn something..so afaic,if your learning a trade,and your on 200 or less you should be exempt.if your not living with family.as vikky stated that shes not..like i said i pay ****loads and it wouldnt bother me if certain people were exempt.


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## Natalie (Jan 19, 2011)

Dj.xray said:


> Yeah i know how tax works im a qualified chipie i do pay it and alot of it..when i was his age i never got that much.the boy who works with us is 18.and 300 a weeks good money afaic..i just think being an apprentice like vikky on her wage,the goverment should give more of an incentive to people like her who want to learn something..


Wanting to learn a trade should be incentive enough imho 

When I was 18 I was on £400 a month and paid tax on that. It's all part and parcel of earning a wage.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Dj.xray said:


> Yeah i know how tax works im a qualified chipie i do pay it and alot of it..when i was his age i never got that much.the boy who works with us is 18.and 300 a weeks good money afaic..i just think being an apprentice like vikky on her wage,the goverment should give more of an incentive to people like her who want to learn something..


Given the opportunity to get a trade should be enough of an incentive.

I think everyone understands when you take on an apprenticeship that you won't be the best paid.

Just like you can't go to uni and moan about student fees etc.

If you aren't happy with what's on offer, choose a different career path.

Also the fact the government subsidise most apprenticeships to make them happen in the first place, there isn't much scope to complain that you lose such a small money in tax each year to contribute towards the country.

I've never heard any of our apprentices moan. Ours are reasonably well paid but know fully well in 4 years time they will be instantly on more than the vast majority of graduates.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

We are currently looking for more apprentices in Aberdeen too if any young ones here fancy applying. 

I would confidently bet none of the applicants will turn down a chance if they had to pay tax.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Kerr said:


> We are currently looking for more apprentices in Aberdeen too if any young ones here fancy applying.
> 
> I would confidently bet none of the applicants will turn down a chance if they had to pay tax.


Well the government dont subsidise our firm were a specialist building firm in london so my governor pays for our apprentices..like i said i pay bundles of tax i done 4 years in college learning carpentry and joinery when i was 16 17 years ago and i was on 60 pound a week!.but now i earn decent money..what it is,is that the person who gets 300 a week with us complains all the time and he gets good money for his age.so when i hear of someone like vikky in her situation, i can understand how she feels..i know that you and natalie are saying about be grateful.but at the end of the day she asked: do you think apprentices should pay tax?. And im saying not if your on 200 a week or less..


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Dj.xray said:


> Well the government dont subsidise our firm were a specialist building firm in london so my governor pays for our apprentices..like i said i pay bundles of tax i done 4 years in college learning carpentry and joinery when i was 16 17 years ago and i was on 60 pound a week!.but now i earn serious money..what it is,is that the person who gets 300 a week with us complains all the time and he gets good money for his age.so when i hear of someone like vikky in her situation, i can understand how she feels ..i know that you and natalie are saying about be grateful.but at the end of the day she asked: do you think apprentices should pay tax?. And im saying not if your on 200 a week or less..


Any well run company is going to be subsidised for their apprentices. No business lets a penny slip.

The thing about internet forums, usually the question asked normally leads to a discussion about the topic and so far it has remained on topic very tightly.

Claiming you pay loads of tax and earn loads doesn't strengthen your argument and I'm not sure why you are boasting as if it does. Totally irrelevant to the discussion.

There is loads of young people in this country who earn the same as Vicky. She gets the nearly the same minimum wage as all young ones 20 or under.

The apprentice rate is £2.65 per hour set by the minimum wage structure.

So she is well above what she is required to be paid and like any other person of her age earning the same money she has a duty to put a little back in.

If you change the rules for one, you have to change it for all.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Kerr said:


> Any well run company is going to be subsidised for their apprentices. No business lets a penny slip.
> 
> The thing about internet forums, usually the question asked normally leads to a discussion about the topic and so far it has remained on topic very tightly.
> 
> ...


Well maybe i phrased that wrong fair enough i earn good money is what i meant thats all..in london it would be hard to live on 170 a week. I mean your obviously a boss of somesort because your offering people apprenticeships.so maybe if you was on 170 a week you would ask the same question.


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## Raga (Feb 14, 2012)

You get £170 i used to get £30 for 6 days of hard work 9am till 6 sometime till 8 i used to save all my money up just soo i can buy tools so i couldn't spend nothing? For 2years i was like this your, very lucky and you'll have to just struggle and make it through and hope good money will be coming soon after you learn and get qualified!


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

The thing is that apprenticeship schemes are aimed in favour school leaver aged types who invariably are/were still young, single, no dependents and living at home so didn't have the "overheads" of living in London/anywhere to contend with.

It's simply a case of choose a path and get to the goal.

To put it very basically;

1) I want to do an apprenticeship. 
- Low pay until qualified.
- No Course/qualification fees

2) I want to get a degree based job
- Potentially earn as much as you can manage whilst you learn
- Pay for your qualification (several thousand pounds per year)


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Dj.xray said:


> Well maybe i phrased that wrong fair enough i earn good money is what i meant thats all..in london it would be hard to live on 170 a week. I mean your obviously a boss of somesort because your offering people apprenticeships.so maybe if you was on 170 a week you would ask the same question.


I refer to the company I work for as we and the apprentices who I spend a lot of time training as our.

I'm just an employee like everyone else.

£170 per week is impossible to live on if you have a house, kids etc.

That's the thing though. Apprentices are usually always all young girls and boys who are still at home with their parents.

When you don't have any debts or responsibities £170 a week is more than enough for a young one.

If you are loaded with debt and have a house to worry about, the apprenticeship route has probably past you by.

Not sure what Vicky's circumstances and why she is staying alone when an apprentice, but I always hear about other people getting working tax credit to top up wages when required. I've no idea about this side of things.

We have had the debate at work if getting a good apprenticeship is actually more valuable than going to uni and these days.

You are already making money rather than racking up debt and many apprentices in the correct trade will earn as much if not more than the majority of uni graduates.

I'm sure the vast majority of young ones would kill for a good apprenticeship these days.

Just googled student debt and the prediction is £53,000.

So further your education by landing yourself with £53k debt or earn £9k a year paying £74 tax knowing you are guaranteed a good job at the end?

After 4 years you are already £89k better off and that is assuming that her wage stays at £9k and doesn't stagger up like most schemes.


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## shonajoy (Jan 27, 2009)

Working tax credits maybe? I see your point it's little money but surely you won't pay too much tax on that? I earn £550 a month for a three 5 hou shift a week (through choice) and pay no tax. Also it's training- if you train at uni you end up either in debt o an a lot less than that.


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## trv8 (Dec 30, 2007)

Raga said:


> You get £170 i used to get £30 for 6 days of hard work 9am till 6 sometime till 8 i used to save all my money up just soo i can buy tools so i couldn't spend nothing? For 2years i was like this your, very lucky and you'll have to just struggle and make it through and hope good money will be coming soon after you learn and get qualified!


Well, I think your both very lucky .
I left school in the 70's and was lucky enough to get an apprenticeship as a welder/fabricator.
I used to take-home £12.30p a week :doublesho.
Out of that, I would pay £5.00 for my keep. 
My Dad said that he thought that was fair because it left me with over half of my wages.....and that if I didn't like it..... 
I was quite welcome to find my own place and pay all my own for bills/food etc.
Even to this day.....I know a bargain when I see one :thumb:....
Thanks Mum & Dad :wave:.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

trv8 said:


> Well, I think your both very lucky .
> I left school in the 70's and was lucky enough to get an apprenticeship as a welder/fabricator.
> I used to take-home £12.30p a week :doublesho.
> Out of that, I would pay £5.00 for my keep.
> ...


Sounds very much like my mother :lol: she'll have left school in the mid-60's and got a job as a waitress, her full wage packet went to her mam and she lived off her tips.

I've heard the story quite a few times but I can't for the life of me remember the figures involved now :lol:


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## vickky453 (Feb 27, 2009)

Kerr said:


> Why should they not?
> 
> Most apprentices are young people living at home with parents and £170 per week whilst training isn't bad.
> 
> ...


wow, calm down, it was a general question , not a moral one! I only needed a yes or no 

I think everyone thought I was whinging, I was only asking!


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## chisai (Jan 1, 2009)

vickky453 said:


> wow, calm down, it was a general question , not a moral one! I only needed a yes or no
> 
> I think everyone thought I was whinging, I was only asking!


 That'll teach you


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

vickky453 said:


> wow, calm down, it was a general question , not a moral one! I only needed a yes or no
> 
> I think everyone thought I was whinging, I was only asking!


What's wrong with my answer?

When you ask a question on an open forum, it would soon die if everyone only answered yes or know.

If you ask people's opinion's, you have to accept you won't always hear what you want.

I know you asked a serious question. I gave a serious and fair response in my opinion.


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## vickky453 (Feb 27, 2009)

because you answered as though I was taking offence to paying tax. I have no problem, i was wondering if it was the norm


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

To be fair, I think this has been a pretty interesting & civilised discussion to what I've seen on some forums :lol:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

vickky453 said:


> because you answered as though I was taking offence to paying tax. I have no problem, i was wondering if it was the norm


Not at all.

I was just curious to why you thought apprentices might/should be tax free.

Being an apprentice and getting paid £170 isn't a bad deal. Just think of how much the training, qualifications and experience you are gaining is worth/costs.


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## vickky453 (Feb 27, 2009)

I didnt think apprentices should be tax free, I was asking if they pay tax, as Ive never been one before and thought they may have been exempt or something.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Whatever You or I think We ALL have to pay tax on any money earn t once our allowances are used up..
It always has been and always will be this way... It would be unfair on everyone if one group no matter how big or small were to given exemption from paying..

I echo the sentiments above.. The apprenticeships are usually taken by the younger age group still usually living at home with mum and dad..

The wage of 170 per week is a very reasonable amount given that the skills learnt will pay huge dividends in the long run and very LITTLE will be paid in tax and NI............


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## vickky453 (Feb 27, 2009)

Ok, im going to give up trying to put my point across now :lol:


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Perhaps it'd have been better to phrase the question as you wanted it.

I'm looking into an apprenticeship. Do they pay tax?

Rather than the debate sounding headline "Should apprentices be taxed?"


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## RedUntilDead (Feb 10, 2009)

ChuckH said:


> Whatever You or I think We ALL have to pay tax on any money earn t once our allowances are used up..
> It always has been and always will be this way... It would be unfair on everyone if one group no matter how big or small were to given exemption from paying..
> 
> I echo the sentiments above.. The apprenticeships are usually taken by the younger age group still usually living at home with mum and dad..
> ...


Chuck I can hear what your saying and agree:thumb:


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## vickky453 (Feb 27, 2009)

I agree aswell :lol:


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

You can mitigate what tax you pay as well Vikki.

If you wash your own Company branded uniform, there is a tax credit for that for example.

You will be buying tools as well no doubt. My company used to buy them for us and take an amount per week before tax. This meant we paid less tax but we paid retail, the company claimed the VAT back.

Clever old company accountant.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Vickky Im confused ?? I thought I and a few others had answered the question asked ?? Or am I missing the point ?


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## vickky453 (Feb 27, 2009)

ChuckH said:


> Vickky Im confused ?? I thought I and a few others had answered the question asked ?? Or am I missing the point ?


yeah you did answer it in a way mate. I only asked because I genuinly did not know apprentices paid taxes. Im fine paying them, but I was just asking as a yes or no question. Ive paid taxes for 7 years ( Im 23) and people are answering in this thread as though they think im annoyed at paying taxes


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

You asked if apprentices SHOULD be taxed, not ARE they taxed.There's a big difference, the answer to 'SHOULD' is open to opinion, the answer to 'ARE' is black and white.


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

vickky453 said:


> yeah you did answer it in a way mate. I only asked because I genuinly did not know apprentices paid taxes. Im fine paying them, but I was just asking as a yes or no question. Ive paid taxes for 7 years ( Im 23) and people are answering in this thread as though they think im annoyed at paying taxes


I've been paying tax for 15 years and I'm still annoyed.

Apprenticeships are hard. I was on £75 per week when i started. I had to get to work and back everyday, feed myself and go to college as well as buy tools out of that.

It is a hard thing to do and it takes a lot of vision and looking at the big picture to avoid going to work shifts for more money now, less later.

I personally wouldn't have a problem with apprentices getting taxed less. Certainly less of a problem than allowing people to work 15 hours a week.

Like i said, there are ways to mitigate your tax as an apprentice. Ask the Citizens Advice Bureau for help as well.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

It matters not what any of us think ... We are taxed from the day we leave school to the day the undertakers call ..............................


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I hate the tax system... very unfair imo

:lol:

:thumb:


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

ChuckH said:


> It matters not what any of us think ... We are taxed from the day we leave school to the day the undertakers call ..............................


Actually after you're dead too (Inheritence tax)!!! :devil:


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## ArcticVXR (Apr 10, 2007)

In my opinion they earn so they pay tax like everyone else


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## vickky453 (Feb 27, 2009)

ArcticVXR said:


> In my opinion they earn so they pay tax like everyone else


thanks, but I wasnt asking for opinions, i was asking for facts


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

vickky453 said:


> thanks, but I wasnt asking for opinions, i was asking for facts


Yep. You'll fit in fine in engineering.

:lol:


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