# Been hit and need advice



## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

Waiting at traffic lights earlier, ambulance comes storming along with lights and siren going and I moved out of the way - I have to say I wasn't keen on crossing the line on red, but my moral compass tells me my actions could potentially save someone's life, so I move. 

Ambulance is coming through and as he is almost completely past me, he changes course slightly and I feel the scrape along my car. By the time my light went green, he'd gone through another 2 sets of reds with the lights on and was nowhere to be seen - not that I had any expectation of the ambulance stopping anyway. 

I rang the constabulary and was told I have to report it in person (nick doesn't open until 10am tomorrow, so will be on the doorstep at 0959) as its still treated as a failure to stop. I assume I also have to notify my insurer too but my 1st worry is that the ambulance service will say they didn't do anything and even if I don't make a claim, it's somehow going to load my premium as a declared accident. 

Has this sort of thing happened to anyone else? I'm concerned that one way or another it's going to cost me either in repairs or increased insurance. There's no structural damage but it's going to need paint, which means no wax for 8 weeks and I'm going to have to hold off on the Christmas present PDC kit now.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

From what i have read somewhere in the past contact your insurance co and the local ambulance body.....

Only problem is you went through a red light and they might try and hang you on that see the EMAS ambulance service video on their home page...

http://www.emas.nhs.uk/

they have a phone number

http://www.emas.nhs.uk/contact/

_Here you can find out more about our Patient Experience team and how to discuss the service you have received from us

We aim to provide a high quality service to our patients so it is important that we continually improve our service as a result of feedback from our patients. We welcome feedback whether it is to say 'thank you' for a positive experience, or you feel that we could have done better.

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_

Most Emergency service vehicles are fitted with cameras...... so they will pull the tapes/ hard drives/ memory cards if needed

If you have legal cover speak to them first and take it from there thats what you pay them for .. If you dont have it and are an RAC or AA member they also offer legal help to their members :thumb:


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

We have been hit by fire alarm car in past and looks like it will be Your fault as You need to make space to ambulance which have sirens on ...


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## Stumper (Apr 5, 2009)

Alzak said:


> looks like it will be Your fault as You need to make space to ambulance which have sirens on ...


Rubbish. Absolute rubbish.

If the ambulance has hit you it's their fault. The same as anyone else.

The ambulance which hit you should have stopped, the same as any other vehicle on the road, they don't have an exemption from stopping at the scene of an accident. Whether or not they noticed that they clipped you is another story altogether.

The best thing to do is to contact the local ambulance service's PALS or patient experience department and let them know what's happened. They'll advise you on what forms you need to fill in. 
If you give them the time and location of the incident they can easily trace it back to the crew in question and go from there. 
From experience, 9 times out of 10 the crew will not know they've done it if it was a minor thing and the service will not contest it and will pay for the repairs. 
It usually doesn't go through their insurance though as the excesses are huge (ours in London is over £20k!)


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

Alzak said:


> We have been hit by fire alarm car in past and looks like it will be Your fault as You need to make space to ambulance which have sirens on ...


Rubbish +2

Just because it's an ambulance, they have to abide to the same rules on the road as everyone else.

To the OP. Hope you get it sorted okay.


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## IanG (Nov 21, 2007)

I got hit by a fire engine years ago and it failed to stop. They did cough up in the end and admit liability.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk


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## Dixondmn (Oct 12, 2007)

Remember ambulances are not classed as emergency vehicles, i'd follow the normal route you would if making a claim against any other vehicle


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## Stumper (Apr 5, 2009)

dixon75 said:


> Remember ambulances are not classed as emergency vehicles, i'd follow the normal route you would if making a claim against any other vehicle


What are they classed as then?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

A van basically


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## Stumper (Apr 5, 2009)

bigmc said:


> A van basically


I'm not certain but I'm pretty sure that's not the case.
They're classed as emergency vehicles and as such can claim various exemptions from road traffic law.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

The ambulance service isn't an emergency service.


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## Stumper (Apr 5, 2009)

bigmc said:


> The ambulance service isn't an emergency service.


I know, but the vehicles are still classed as emergency vehicles.


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## svended (Oct 7, 2011)

I had my own ambulance company, ambulances 'paramadic, rescue, heart start, First Responders and BASICS' are classed as emergency vehicles, though thats not to say all vehicles namely support vehicles are classed as such.


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## svended (Oct 7, 2011)

Get in touch with your local ambulance station and speak to the duty commander, he will either be able to give you all the details or at least advise on where to get it. Good luck.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

johnnyguitar said:


> Waiting at traffic lights earlier, ambulance comes storming along with lights and siren going and *I moved out of the way - I have to say I wasn't keen on crossing the line on red,* but my moral compass tells me my actions could potentially save someone's life, so I move.
> 
> Ambulance is coming through and as he is almost completely past me, he changes course slightly and I feel the scrape along my car. By the time my light went green, he'd gone through another 2 sets of reds with the lights on and was nowhere to be seen - not that I had any expectation of the ambulance stopping anyway.
> 
> ...


Sorry about your situation, now then, yes you have to inform your insurers, yes your premium may rise, did you manage to get the reg of the ambulance vehicle? That will help somewhat.
Not in your favour is crossing the solid white line at the traffic light controlled junction, my mate's colleague got points and a fine for soing just that , moving out of the way for an ambulance to pass and the TLC zapped him, he went to court and lost 
Anyways hope the repair and liability is resolved in your favour.


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## dew1911 (Jun 9, 2009)

An ambulance (or any other vehicle for that matter) has actually very little more authority on the roads than you. By definition blue lights are simply a warning that the vehicle is there, they do NOT mean "get out of the way"

If you got the reg get onto your insurer.


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## Teddy (Dec 15, 2007)

Sounds like you did your best to get out of the way but the ambulance decided to barge through. The driver must have known how close he got.

Recognise these drivers have an important job to do but some do seem to think a blue light means they can just drive as aggresively as they want. Some car drivers are complete halfwits though and are oblivious to the ambulance/fire engine/police car behind them or other go into a panic and don't know what to do.


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

sorry to hear of your headaches op, i am curious what is an ambulance if not an emergancy vehicle ? there on the way to an emergancy 999 call 

I am not doubting what is typed just dont get it


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## Stumper (Apr 5, 2009)

dew1911 said:


> If you got the reg get onto your insurer.


You shouldn't need the reg.
Speak to the ambulance service's PALS or Patient Experience team, tell them the time and the location and they'll do the rest.
This kind of thing happens quite a lot so they're used to dealing with it.

As for telling your insurance, I'd hold back on that 'cos as I said before it probably won't go through insurance if it's a small amount of damage. They'll just pay themselves.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

graeme_t said:


> You shouldn't need the reg.
> Speak to the ambulance service's PALS or Patient Experience team, tell them the time and the location and they'll do the rest.
> This kind of thing happens quite a lot so they're used to dealing with it.
> 
> *As for telling your insurance, I'd hold back on that 'cos as I said before it probably won't go through insurance if it's a small amount of damage.* They'll just pay themselves.


If you check the policy terms, the OP should tell the insurers, all be it for notification purposes only


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## Stumper (Apr 5, 2009)

Avanti said:


> If you check the policy terms, the OP should tell the insurers, all be it for notification purposes only


I never knew that, I thought it was only if you were making a claim from either party.
Any excuse to load up a premium


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

graeme_t said:


> I never knew that, I thought it was only if you were making a claim from either party.
> Any excuse to load up a premium


Sadly yes, both times I have been hit, never needed to claim via the insurance, although they do need to be notified, more the worry, if you don't notify them, they can nullify the policy and further insurance could be dificult as the one question asked is "have you been declined a policy in the past?"


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## Teddy (Dec 15, 2007)

Unless you fully intend to go down the insurance route I wouldn't tell them. They don't need to know and it's nothing to do with them.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Teddy said:


> Unless you fully intend to go down the insurance route I wouldn't tell them. They don't need to know and it's nothing to do with them.


You best check the terms on your policy, it will not show as a claim, just for notification only.


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## dew1911 (Jun 9, 2009)

Avanti said:


> You best check the terms on your policy, it will not show as a claim, just for notification only.


And they'll still use it as an excuse to charge you more.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

dew1911 said:


> And they'll still use it as an excuse to charge you more.


Yes I could not disagree, the NCB is a no claims not no incident regardless of blame 
I would have not mentioned my last incident to my insurers, but my mate works for an insurance company and it is wiser to let them know as they are often seeking get out of paying options 
When the OP contacts the insurer, they will ask if he wants the company to persue a claim? He simply answers no, the call is just for notification purposes, he can always change his mind later, and there are claims companies that will act on his behalf without the need of his insurers.


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

Well, I can't really advise about insurance or claiming against emergency vehicles, etc.

But one thing I'd like to say to OP is, take your hat off and take a bow for moving out of the way of the ambulance (even though they bloomin' hit you).....you may have saved somebody's life.

I hope it all works out in your favour, insurance wise, as you certainly deserve it mate :thumb:


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## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

Kriminal said:


> But one thing I'd like to say to OP is, take your hat off and take a bow for moving out of the way of the ambulance (even though they bloomin' hit you).....you may have saved somebody's life.


And that's exactly why I moved and didn't chase the bloke and try and get his attention. I do hope was something important and the driver and his colleague were able to do their job and do something good.

I had to report the bump to the police as the ambulance didn't stop and, as the ambulance service might notify their insurer who may make contact with mine, I also told my insurer (who promptly put their claims management company in touch, and they can feck off). I spoke to EMAS about it as well but to be honest I am not expecting a quick response at this time of year.

Re actually moving, the Highway Code does describe ambulances as emergency vehicles and says you should take appropriate action to let it pass and if necessary, pull to the side of the road and stop. I appreciate the highway code uses a lot of advisory requests and isn't necessarily all law, but can be used as evidence in court so I am happy I did the right thing. If being done for crossing a red means I will have my car repaired then as a point of principle I will take the conviction. I know some ambulance services grant their drivers legal exemption from certain offences (speeding, red lights, crossing white lines etc) but I assume this doesn't extend to carrying on your way after whacking somebody up the ****.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

johnnyguitar said:


> And that's exactly why I moved and didn't chase the bloke and try and get his attention. I do hope was something important and the driver and his colleague were able to do their job and do something good.
> 
> I had to report the bump to the police as the ambulance didn't stop and, as the ambulance service might notify their insurer who may make contact with mine, I also told my insurer (who promptly put their claims management company in touch, and they can feck off). I spoke to EMAS about it as well but to be honest I am not expecting a quick response at this time of year.
> 
> Re actually moving, the Highway Code does describe ambulances as emergency vehicles and says you should take appropriate action to let it pass and if necessary, pull to the side of the road and stop. I appreciate the highway code uses a lot of advisory requests and isn't necessarily all law, but can be used as evidence in court so I am happy I did the right thing. If being done for crossing a red means I will have my car repaired then as a point of principle I will take the conviction.* I know some ambulance services grant their drivers legal exemption from certain offences (speeding, red lights, crossing white lines etc)* but I assume this doesn't extend to carrying on your way after whacking somebody up the ****.


Actually they don't , there was a time when every other news article was about ambulance drivers getting done by speed cameras, and it's not a knock on the legal drivers, many claimed they were transporting orgams etcand even liveried police car drivers can get a ticket whilst on duty too.


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## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

I think there is something in Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (although I assume this is amended by now) along the lines of exemptions are allowed in respects of speed limits if the observance of the speed limit would hinder the use for the purpose the vehicle was being used. Common sense would suggest that would be during emergencies and I guess travelling to give somebody necessary medical treatment would constitute an emergency. I thought the 3 exemption were red lights, speed limits and keep left signs but then what do I know?


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## Stumper (Apr 5, 2009)

johnnyguitar said:


> I think there is something in Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (although I assume this is amended by now) along the lines of exemptions are allowed in respects of speed limits if the observance of the speed limit would hinder the use for the purpose the vehicle was being used. Common sense would suggest that would be during emergencies and I guess travelling to give somebody necessary medical treatment would constitute an emergency. I thought the 3 exemption were red lights, speed limits and keep left signs but then what do I know?


That's pretty much it. Ambulances can claim the following exemptions as long as they can justify it:


Stopping on clearways
Parking on zig-zags
Parking on double yellow/white lines
Stopping the engine while parked
Parking on the O/S of the road at night
Parking on a footway/verge/central reservation
Exceeding statutory speed limits
Treating red lights as a Give Way
Using audible warnings at night
Observing keep right/left signs
Motorway regulations (where you need to do so to avoid or prevent an accident, or to obtain or give the help required at an accident or emergency).
Entering a bus lane

They can't claim an exemption from

Dangerous driving
Careless driving
Failing to stop if involved in a Road Traffic Accident
Dangerous parking
Driving without a seatbelt subject to those exemptions available to other motorists
Failing to obey traffic lights controlling a level crossing or fire station
Crossing or straddling a solid white line nearest to you down the middle of the road - Other than the occasions listed in the highway code
Failing to obey a No Entry sign
Failing to obey a One Way Traffic sign
Failing to obey a Stop or Give Way sign

That's taken from my IHCD Ambulance Driving Manual which all ambulance drivers are trained by.
Hopefully that clears some of it up for people.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

graeme_t said:


> That's pretty much it. Ambulances can claim the following exemptions as long as they can justify it:
> 
> They can't claim an exemption from
> 
> ...


Yikes!


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Serious question though graeme_t

would there be an exemption there if they had a life or death case on? eg responding to a heart attack or say having a patient at deaths door in the back en route to hospital.... 

After all in the event of a minor bump where no one is injured. you wouldn't want to be bleeding out in the back whilst the driver exchanged insurance details........

(just a thought)


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

andy monty said:


> Serious question though graeme_t
> 
> would there be an exemption there if they had a life or death case on? eg responding to a heart attack or say having a patient at deaths door in the back en route to hospital....
> 
> ...


How would the driver know though if they didn't stop to see if the occupants of the vehicle were ok, after all they are medically trained (or somebody in the ambulance is) then of course which life is more important, the young johnnyguitar or some 90year old that has had the good life 
Fire appliances have been in accidents on the way to an incident and nobody ended up dying 
(just throwing scenarios in )


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## Stumper (Apr 5, 2009)

andy monty said:


> Serious question though graeme_t
> 
> would there be an exemption there if they had a life or death case on? eg responding to a heart attack or say having a patient at deaths door in the back en route to hospital....
> 
> ...


I was going to mention something about this on my last post but decided not to incase it set some people off on rants!

There's no exemption no matter who you've got on board or what job you're going to. You still have to stop at an RTC.
Saying that, if I were in the position where I had someone seriously ill in the back, i.e. CPR in progress, serious bleeding, sick child, I wouldn't stop if it was just a clip to another car. Wrong and could potentially cost me my job but in cases like that you do it for the greater good.
If it was a proper bump then of course I'd stop but explain what we had going on and call up on the radio and get the Police out. I'd then be on my way if I could be.

I've only had it happen once and I was in the back rather than driving. We apparently hit someone's wing mirror when we were running on blue lights to Hospital. The driver never noticed and I never felt anything in the back but we got a letter about it a few weeks later. We didn't know anything about it but we knew we were around that road at about that time so we accepted responsibility. The guy got his mirror repaired and we never got into any trouble over it. 
Had I been driving, Would I have stopped if I'd noticed? 
No chance.
The patient in the back was having a massive heart attack and needed urgent treatment at the local heart attack centre. As it happened he was having an angiogram within about 20 minutes of us rolling up to the door and about an hour later was transferred to a more specialist unit for an immediate coronary bypass procedure. In cases like that a few minutes can really be the difference between life and death for someone so for me it's far more important than sorting out a busted £100 wing mirror.


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## gizzmobell (Aug 3, 2010)

as an ex fire service driver, blue lights and horns are audible and visual warnings to other drivers, they are not a disclaimer for bad driving, you treat red lights as give way signs, if we had a bump we would drop of a crew menber to exchange details and to be picked up on the way back. our priority was to respond to the emergency. I can remember resoponding to a fire call and on entering the street was greated with a line of cars double parked, as we were responding to a person reported in a fiire, sad to say a few of them got scratched and booked by the police for causing an obstruction, but we got the person out alive. the advice i can give if you are faced with an approaching emergency appliance, is be decisive let them know what you intend to do, indicate pull in, let them know that you have seen them,


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## shane_ctr (Dec 17, 2006)

Im sure the Crew of the Ambulance would have been aware and would have to report the damage to there Vehicle, Once you come forward and explain what happened i can't see a problem, Could man for getting out of the way though, always do my best for Ambulance and Fire crews


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## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

Well Shane you'd think so. 
After many phone calls and some bullsh*t from QBE (EMAS insurer), EMAS has decided that because the driver has "no recollection" of the incident then it can't possibly happen. To say I am cheesed off is an understand. I 100% appreciate that their driver, who could drive 100,000 miles per year, probably in very stressful circumstances, could not be expected to remember absolutely everything that happens on a day to day basis, but there is apparently no question that they might have hit me. Commercially, why would you say you've hit somebody's car if the person you've hit would have a mighty job proving that it happened? You wouldn't, is the answer I suppose.

The police are involved, I am having my car assessed and, hopefully, the same assessor will inspect the ambulance to determine whether there is corresponding damage. I've not cleaned my car since the accident - there's a mark from the ambulance's rubber strip on the corner of bumper, being completely over the top dramatic, I suppose it's forensic material and I guess you could match it with the rubber/material on the ambulance. 

Estimate to repaint the bumper is only £360, I've decided (morally right or otherwise) that I'm going to attempt to give them more than £360 of trouble and if I have to fork out and attempt to reclaim through small claims, I will. 

Buggers!!


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Reading things like this im really glad i have my in car camera.......


"we didnt do it"

"can i have that in writing"

"now watch this clip that i have put on you tube" entitled Local amublance hit my car and denied all knowlage" 

Hope you get it sorted fella :wall:


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## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

It's next on my list of things to buy Andy. There is a recommendation for an Android app that works like a proper GPS video recorder and records in both chunks and will stop and save if a jolt is sensed. Shame I have an iPhone really as there does not seem to be anything similar on the market.

I will be writing a Daily Mail style moany letter to my local newspaper with a terrible tale of woe, advising motorists to think of the consequences when encountering an emergency vehicle both to the vehicle and the people they may be in the process of saving and to your own safety and legality. Morally I know the right thing to do is to let the emergency vehicle pass, but I'm still really fecked off.


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## Pinky (Feb 15, 2008)

off chance but did you try the local authority to see if there is a traffic light camera or maybe a building nearby with a camera .


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## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

Assessor comes out today, doesn't really like my estimate (too high of course!) but doesn't think it's necessarily unreasonable. Mentioned that the claim is being disputed and that I considered the black stuff on the bumper is, I suppose, forensic material. The measure comes out and I am assuming an inspection of the ambulance will be attempted. If EMAS (that's East Midlands Ambulance Service for any keen Googlers) refuse an inspection, I'd like to know what they've got to hide. 

I have a feeling I am going to have to pay and prepare my case for a civil claim in county court....


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## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

Pinky said:


> off chance but did you try the local authority to see if there is a traffic light camera or maybe a building nearby with a camera .


There isn't on that junction unfortunately. My wife was involved in an accident about 6 years ago, not her fault, at the next island along and when she tried to get any CCTV images that may have been captured, she was told they were only released in the event of a fatality.


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## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

Nearly a month on from the accident, here's what my insurance company had to say today:

*John's insurance company says....*
[East Midlands Ambulance Service] have said that it will not be possible for their vehicle to be inspected by an independent assessor because it's an emergency vehicle, but they are prepared to send images of the area in question to dispel any idea that their vehicle has been damaged. They're not being difficult though.

Come again? So let me get this straight, the third party (who apparently have nothing to hide) won't let an assessor inspect the vehicle, but are prepared to photograph a small area of the ambulance to show there is no damage. Would this be an ambulance which is probably remarkably similar, nay identical except for perhaps no damage, to another bloody ambulance in their service? I've had enough of the silly bugger games now. I'm sure if I hang around the Infirmary long enough at the weekend with a camera, a big ruler and a handful of cotton buds, the ambulance will show up and I can do something scientific and investigatory looking to make it look like I know/think there's some damage! :lol:

If I can send a photo in, maybe I should edit this with my reg plate and send it off:










Rather than this:


IMG_0741 by jonnyguitar, on Flickr


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

Disgusting mate


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## Pinky (Feb 15, 2008)

I take it you got the registration number of the vehicle which hit you .
You could always find out what station its based at and turn up at shift change time (if you can find that out ) or as you say go to the hospital and wait but if you are intending to take photos etc I would advise you say to the crew when they arrive at the hospital first .


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