# A new gloss, haze and orange peel meter/instrument coming out soon!!



## Miracle Detail (Jun 4, 2010)

Hi Guys,

Had a quick play with this a few days ago, very good and clever bit of kit, will be testing it when they come out in a few weeks...

Here's some text on the new instrument:

The Rhopoint IQ is unique as it supplies surface gloss and texture information in one quick, simple and easy to understand measurement. Gloss, Distinctness of Image, Haze and RSPEC measurements are taken in a single reading at 20° or 60° .

Whilst glossmeters are widely used throughout industry to assess the reflective qualities of products, gloss information alone is limited as it tells us how much light is reflected, but nothing about the imaging forming qualities of a surface.

Phenomena such orange peel, haze effects and polishing marks distort reflections in a surface, seriously reducing visual appearance but cannot be measured with traditional glossmeter. This means two surfaces which have very different reflective properties often have exactly the same gloss value.

The DOI, Haze and RSPEC values measured by the Rhopoint IQ allow the user to quantify and control the surface textures that reduce the perceived quality of manufactured products.

http://www.rhopointinstruments.com/...ovo-Gloss-IQ-Goniophotometer/flypage.tpl.html

Kind Regards
Paul Dalton

Miracle Detail.
Tel: 07788-441150
Office: 07788-441150
Int'l: +44 (0) 7788-441150
Email: [email protected]
Web: www.miracledetail.co.uk
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Swissvax car care http://www.swissvax.ch/
3M car care: http://www.3mcarcare.co.uk/


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## Tim186 (Oct 18, 2009)

looks cool but i bet it will cost like 4 grand, not for your average joe either i would guess?


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## Miracle Detail (Jun 4, 2010)

Tim186 said:


> looks cool but i bet it will cost like 4 grand, not for your average joe either i would guess?


No about half that I think.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Wow, detailing is really moving on. 

I wonder though if this sort of product will stop car makers letting new cars have such horrible Orange peel? I doubt it lol.


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## Miracle Detail (Jun 4, 2010)

Alex L said:


> Wow, detailing is really moving on.
> 
> I wonder though if this sort of product will stop car makers letting new cars have such horrible Orange peel? I doubt it lol.


We can live and hope, but yes, I doubt it too! lol.


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Cool. I just love gadgets.

Nice one Paul. Let us know firm price when you have it


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## Dingo2002 (Apr 4, 2007)

I've taken a look over the spec sheets and manuals and whilst it looks an impressive piece of kit a few things concern me. 

Automotive paints are hugely varied in their appearance with wide ranging qualities. Matt paints from completely flat to those with a satin sheen, solid colour paints with clear lacquers, and those with pearlescent lacquers, and then metallics with a simply vast array of finishes. 

That goniophotometer will give tell you accurately how glossy the surface you are working on is or has become since you started working on it but will you ever have any truly accurate point of reference to use the results in a worthwhile way? Even within manufacturers paint qualities themselves vary between batches so you may achieve a result of a certain value on one Audi S3 in dolphin grey and yet no matter how perfect your polishing you just can't get the next dolphin grey S3 to the same level of finish simply due to the actual base coat paint or even the finish on the metal that the paint has been applied to!!!

I would be interested to see the different results gained from two polished cars in the same colour to see how varied the results are. 

I think metallics will be the biggest area where results will be too varied. Different flake sizes will invariably produce widely different results across paint types. 

But then I won't be able to afford one unless i sell a couple of the kids to Madonna anyway :thumb:


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## Griffiths Detailing (Mar 29, 2011)

When i first read this i thought it was a machine that would say "SHINEY" or "NOT SHINEY" Which wouldnt be too handy as I have eyes I got for free from god. But does sound quite good!


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

things are really moving on - sounds like a soon to be essential bit of kit. :thumb:


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## Dingo2002 (Apr 4, 2007)

The_Bouncer said:


> things are really moving on - sounds like a soon to be essential bit of kit. :thumb:


From what I can see it does seem to be aimed for use on an industrial scale, measuring the improvement of gloss on a product at either varying points in a manufacturing process or to check consistency of gloss between like for like products.

I still can't see how it will be able to be used on car paints which vary so wildly between makes and applications.

There's just been a big post about how everyone jumps on the next big expensive thing without even considering is true usefulness and as far as I can see this is one.

Don't get me wrong as a marketing device for Paul's business it will be second to none. :thumb:

Perhaps a database containing everyone who is lucky enough to own ones results stating car make, model and paint colour / code will enable those who inevitably buy the cheaper versions calibrate their devices to get a better idea of what they are achieving?


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

^^ Possibly, I'm sure the same was said originally about the PTG - this is just taking this that one step further - If your a Pro Detailer doing the sort of cars that Paul and his peers do, you cannot sit back and watch the world spin by on this sort of technology - strings to bow and all that.

When it comes down to a sensible price that allows mere mortals :thumb: to use it, I'm sure it will have a place.


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## Dingo2002 (Apr 4, 2007)

The_Bouncer said:


> When it comes down to a sensible price that allows mere mortals :thumb: to use it, I'm sure it will have a place.


That does, of course make sense.

With regards to the PTG it was designed with a specific purpose in mind which lent itself well to detailing. The ability to measure both the lacquer, and base coat layer and with the top end ones separate all the layers into different values is perfectly suited to detailing.

I for one will be watching for Paul's full review in the (hopefully) near future. :thumb:


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

Surely though, if something looks good then it is, if something looks shiny it is?

Why do we need to actually need to put a measurement on it? Could a DW thread soon be, "My paint now detailied to 98S" (i've made the S up for Shinytrons, lol! Thats the measurement)

Thoughts?


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

ant_s said:


> Surely though, if something looks good then it is, if something looks shiny it is?
> 
> Why do we need to actually need to put a measurement on it? Could a DW thread soon be, "My paint now detailied to 98S" (i've made the S up for Shinytrons, lol! Thats the measurement)
> 
> Thoughts?


lol - but I'm pretty sure you'll be correct - we can dig this thread up again in 2 years :thumb:


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## Dingo2002 (Apr 4, 2007)

ant_s said:


> Surely though, if something looks good then it is, if something looks shiny it is?
> 
> Why do we need to actually need to put a measurement on it? Could a DW thread soon be, "My paint now detailied to 98S" (i've made the S up for Shinytrons, lol! Thats the measurement)
> 
> Thoughts?


:lol:


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

ant_s said:


> Surely though, if something looks good then it is, if something looks shiny it is?
> 
> Why do we need to actually need to put a measurement on it? Could a DW thread soon be, "My paint now detailied to 98S" (i've made the S up for Shinytrons, lol! Thats the measurement)
> 
> Thoughts?


i agree, cant see this being used by any of us non £5k+ detailers  

just a quick plug for said business mr dalton? :lol:


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

Yep, I see this for the big pro's, I honestly can't see me ever owning this, but like I say wouldn't mind a reason, or people's thoughts on putting a number/score on a shine.


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## Miracle Detail (Jun 4, 2010)

Thing to remember with this instrument is that it will assist detailers in educating there customers. 

Along with being very handy for product testing. 

Kind Regards
Paul Dalton
Miracle Detail.


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

Yeah, I can see the testing purpose from it, but if your customer is handing you a car, with the rep you've got know it's going to come back to them a danm sight better before you worked on it.

I do see the testing purpose use from it though, testing products with different bases, different techniques could prove very useful, but and this is a big but. 

What happened if the reader said a certain product left a more reflective finish, but you preferd the look of another product for some other reason.

Sorry if i'm coming across as a ***, i'm not trying to argue just want more idea's for it. Will hopefully see it in action soon, if you post any pics/vids?


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## Miracle Detail (Jun 4, 2010)

This device arrives Friday, shall post up a few pics etc. 

Kind Regards
Paul


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## Miracle Detail (Jun 4, 2010)

Rrp £2495.00


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

im sure its worth it to people in the business and especially at your standard paul but still  :lol:


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## Defined Reflections (Jun 4, 2009)

I know somebody who works there,i could have got you some discount


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

You are always on the leading edge paul. Looking for tools that can make your work better or be able to analyse surfaces and all that
I really appreciate your willingless to share this with us, you can easily keep it all to yourself which many do but no, you share and that's why I respect you.
Our methodology products used, tools and techniques may be totally different but thats detailing. 

Once I do get a glossmetre, I won't be satisfied until the paint I work on gets into the low 3 digit ranges, if the paint is good enough to get there. (OEM clears can be rubbish these days)

Keep bringing us them detailing tech tools Mr Miracle.
P.S. - This tool would be handy in knowing how much peel there is and how much I've removed with Xpert or Osren and the rotary.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I have a gloss meter on the way too.. not this one mind you...

2 reasons for this:

I wanted to be able to measure what I had achieved... and I wanted to know which stage made what difference...

2nd one was I wanted to test is any LSP or spray does anything real to the gloss, or it's all the placebo effect.....

I think they are a pretty cool thing to use and see what is going on....

:thumb:


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## Miracle Detail (Jun 4, 2010)

Dream Machines said:


> You are always on the leading edge paul. Looking for tools that can make your work better or be able to analyse surfaces and all that
> I really appreciate your willingless to share this with us, you can easily keep it all to yourself which many do but no, you share and that's why I respect you.
> Our methodology products used, tools and techniques may be totally different but thats detailing.
> 
> ...


No problem, I'll get some pictures of it tomorrow and post up, it really is a beautiful piece of kit, and very consistent.

kind Regards
Paul Dalton
Miracle Detail.


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## Miracle Detail (Jun 4, 2010)

PDF document of the instrument if anyones interested -

http://www.rhopointinstruments.com/images/pdfs/rhopointiq1.pdf

Kind Regards
Paul


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## magoomba (Feb 25, 2007)

I Gotta get one!!


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## Miracle Detail (Jun 4, 2010)

Got mine today, best thing ever, build like a Mac, super consistent unlike every other gloss meter!

Remember guys that this is the only had held instrument that profiles how light is reflected from a surface. Other glossmeters only measure how much light is being reflected and not sensitive to the effects which dramatically reduce the appearance quality.

This is one clever instrument, also has a rechargeable battery that lasts for 20,000 reading or 17+ hours, bluetooth, colour high res screen, this is one serious piece of kit and worth every penny.










Kind Regards
Paul Dalton
Miracle Detail.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

oooh i want!! i want!!


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## Miracle Detail (Jun 4, 2010)

CraigQQ said:


> oooh i want!! i want!!


:thumb:


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

just another step towards perfection Paul?

always wanting that wee bit extra gloss :lol:

that thing will drive you round the bend trying to hit the low tripple digits :lol:


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## Miracle Detail (Jun 4, 2010)




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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

98.4... im guessing that translates to ****ing shiny :lol:


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## Miracle Detail (Jun 4, 2010)

No, the correct procedure is always to use 20 degrees. 88.0 is on black glass, so about as good as it gets. Remember that until this instrument came out, every other gloss meter is inconsistent. 

This device also reads on matt finishes as well.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

lol its all a bit technical for me.. but its very cool none the less.

still want one.. would take me ages to learn to work it.. but that doesn't stop me wanting it :lol:


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

would you be able to use this to tell us how shiny cueball's head is :lol:


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## Miracle Detail (Jun 4, 2010)

CraigQQ said:


> lol its all a bit technical for me.. but its very cool none the less.
> 
> still want one.. would take me ages to learn to work it.. but that doesn't stop me wanting it :lol:


Its the easiest thing in the world to use, just need to sit down and read the manual to understand what it can do.


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## Miracle Detail (Jun 4, 2010)

If any one wants to buy one of these, contact Rhopoint directly and mention my name and you may get a discount...

Retail at £2499.

Kind Regards
Paul


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## Miracle Detail (Jun 4, 2010)

The instrument is also supplied with a calibration tile that is BAM traceable and calibrated by an ISO 17025 certified UKAS Laboratory. BAM hold the master standards for gloss measurement. The instrument itself complies to the relevant ASTM, ISO and Din standards for gloss measurement.


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Very nice Paul looks confusing as hell right enough.

How does it adjust itself for different colours or does it tell you a max gloss count and you try and get as close to that as possible.

Looking forward to seeing if an LSP can change the gloss!


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

£2500? Forget it......


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## Miracle Detail (Jun 4, 2010)

This machine was very handy today, client in the middle east has had his 964 resprayed and hasn't seen it, took loads of pictures in different lighting and lots of readings with the Rhopoint IQ, very interesting considering it was carried out by a very good bodyshop, but now I can report back to my client with all my information, and a lot more information than before thanks to this instrument. I definitely feel like its worth the money on this occasion on its own!!

Also, the instrument is supplied with a calibration tile that is BAM traceable and calibrated by an ISO 17025 certified UKAS Laboratory. BAM hold the master standards for gloss measurement. The instrument itself complies to the relevant ASTM, ISO and Din standards for gloss measurement. So about as good as it gets.



Kind Regards
Paul Dalton
Miracle Detail.


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## Audiquattro (Sep 9, 2010)

Even if the price appear to the mass really too high,this type of instruments are a must for someone of us that cure supercars.
If You have a similar range of customers,it mean that You're someone that know what is perfection on their cars...

In my actual conditions I'm yet desperated when on a Porsche or a Ferrari I have to test the paint thickness with a Total layer PTG...Everytime it's a nightmare when the rotary come over the surface....
Something as Positector or other multilayer PTG are really worth the money they costs..
This mean in few words...If You want to work with perfect results,You have to invest in perfection tools...


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