# Question on insurance



## Pauly.22 (Nov 15, 2009)

Point 6 on the insurance terms,










Just looking at the terms with Axa, my Mrs cars been damaged on the rear wheel arch and door, don't know by who,

There's some rust damage not where it's been damaged but I doubt you could paint the rear quarter and leave the rust,

Point 6 seems to mean that they won't pay to fix the rust as that would improve the car. So would they make us pay to repair the rust then they would repair the accident damage?

I said to just fix it ourselves but my Mrs said she doesn't pay insurance to pay it herself :wall:

Thanks


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## DLGWRX02 (Apr 6, 2010)

I think that means for example, if you have a normal Ford Focus with front end damage, they won't pay to have a new RS front gumper fitted instead of the original.

Otherwise what happens if for instance your car gets keyed all over! But a panel or two may have a few chips etc, would they not repair it? If it needs a respray no (proper) body shop would respray a panel without repairing any knocks/dents first.


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## insanejim69 (Nov 13, 2011)

Yes as above, again another example would be if your exhaust was damaged or blowing you couldn't add a non manufacturer part if claiming through the insurance, its basically like for like.

James.


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## Pauly.22 (Nov 15, 2009)

Cheers. 

So if say the wing was already dented or in this case have rust damage and somone dented it more they should put it right even though the car would now be in better condition than before.


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## insanejim69 (Nov 13, 2011)

Yes as its states, any part that basically improves the car beyond factory spec. Not beyond the condition it is now. That's how I read that passage anyways 

James.


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## DLGWRX02 (Apr 6, 2010)

Yes exactly, how can they refuse to do a repair in a wing just cos it's a bit rusty. If someone kicked it in and you made a claim for it due to vandalism, it's not like can say yes we will repair it, but only for a second hand wing from a scrappers with equivalent rust patches lol. They just get a new wing fitted and painted, but say you had a 325i BMW but wanted to fit the vented M3 wings that would be improving your motor from its original condition before loss.


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## DLGWRX02 (Apr 6, 2010)

Perhaps what it should say is:
*We will not pay *
***Any part of repair or replacement which *Modifies from factory specification* before the loss or damage took place;


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Just to clarify, this comes down to what insurers call "betterment". 

Insurance is to put you in the same position after a loss as you were before the loss happened. 

A couple of examples to help explain:

1) Someone hits your front wing, damages your wheel and bursts your tyre. Your tyre has done X miles and is worn. The insurers fix your wing, your wheel and replace your tyre. They then ask for a contribution towards the cost of the tyre because you now have a brand spanking new tyre and are in a better position than you were before the claim. 

2) you have a rear end shunt which damages your bumper and your rusty old exhaust gave up under the impact and fell off. The insurers replace the bumper and exhaust, but the new exhaust puts the car in a better condition than before the accident so again they ask for a betterment contribution. It is unlikely they won't pay for the exhaust at all as you still had a working exhaust on the car prior to accident, but they will ask for you to foot some of the cost of the replacement exhaust. 

In the case of a rusty wing which suffers accident damage, if the repair means that the rust will be repaired too, then again the insurers will either exclude the cost of the rust repair from the settlement (and you would need to pay this part of the cost direct to the garage) or pay the total cost of repair and ask for a betterment contribution from the policyholder.


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## DLGWRX02 (Apr 6, 2010)

The tyre thing, yes I understand that. The exhaust point, I think they would have trouble trying to put a cost if it was fully functional before hand. If a repair to the wing needed a full sanding down ready for a respray and during that sanding it removed rust, how could they put a price when the filling and sanding is what's already required to repair the damage. Sounds like another loop hole to get out of paying.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

No loopholes. The policy condition is just reinforcing the principle of insurance. Motor Insurance is indemnity insurance not replacement :thumb:


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## Pauly.22 (Nov 15, 2009)

Shiny said:


> Just to clarify, this comes down to what insurers call "betterment".
> 
> Insurance is to put you in the same position after a loss as you were before the loss happened.
> 
> ...


So basically if the rust repair would take 4 hours to fix, they would charge me 4 hours labour then they will fix the rest.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Pauly.22 said:


> So basically if the rust repair would take 4 hours to fix, they would charge me 4 hours labour then they will fix the rest.


This will depend on your Insurer. Their engineer would normally work out any betterment contribution.

They may not be concerned with the rust and be happy to pay the whole cost of repair. I guess it depends on the extent of the rust and what affect it will have on the cost of repair.

Parts like tyres and exhausts can be calculated on their expected life. If a tyre was half worn, then the Insurers would ask for a 50% contribution towards the cost of the new tyre.

Again i'm guessing here, but if a straight repair would have been four hours, but the repair with rust is six hours plus £20 of filler, then i'd imagine the Insurers would ask for a contribition of 2 hrs labour and £20 parts.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Found this, it is an American Estimators book, but i'm certain the same principles would apply, in which case yes, they would deduct the cost of the rust repair - https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...e&q=how is betterment calculated rust&f=false


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