# iso free lacquer problem (one for the paint experts?)



## XRDAN (Feb 28, 2012)

I recently refurbished a set of pepper pot alloys for my xr2, I used a solvent base coat and an iso free 2k lacquer by churchills. the choice of lacquer was due to lack of extraction and air fed mask and after research it seemed a good product...

from what i gathered the iso free version was never going to be as easy to work with as the iso version but for small areas in the correct conditions would be a lot better than 1k at least.

the problem im having is its not fully hardening. it flash dries fine, touch dry in little time and hard dry in 24 hours. at this point its hard enough to flat on polish if need be etc, but even after days its certainly not solid like a lacquer should be (you can dig a finger nail in and it will leave an imprint)

the mixing ratio was followed exactly using a mixing cup, so im confident there was no error there. I did have to add a fair bit of thinners to get the material nice and flowy for the mini jet which i know will slow down drying times but shouldnt effect the chemical reaction? i also use an infra red lamp to aid drying (not industrial)

any help from the pros or anyone with experience would be great!

cheers:thumb:


----------



## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

From what I can gather about these non iso clears, they take alot longer to dry than your normal 2k clear. They are alot thicker apparently some are not infa-red compatible. So could be a case of its been over thinned to get it to lay flatter and isnt compatible with infa-red. But don't be led into believing these are a true iso free, there's been alot of discussion about if they are or not, and if you need to use an air fed mask. Below is one of the discussions I read about it.

The only true iso free 2k lacquer is manufactured by paint manufacturing giant HMG of Manchester, they sell a hell of a lot of it. It is re-packaged by people like Churchill and Smartexpress. It comes in two versions a 50/50 mix and a 2-1 mix but both are the identical acrylic/epoxy mix. It does contain some very nasty ingredients and is not safe to spray using a rubber face mask.
There are manufactures/suppliers out there who will sell you lacquers claiming they are isocyanate free. Oval Paints of Sheffield manufacture a product called Mirrorcryl Iso-Free. And yes the lacquer doesn't contain isocyanates but the hardener which comes with it does contain high levels of the stuff.
Isocyanates are filtered out by good quality charcoal filters, the problem is raw isocyante has very little odour and if your filter is on it's way out then you are probably breathing it in without knowing. There is also a big problem with badly fitting negative pressure respirators (the rubber ones that stick to your face) they never seal properly.
The best option if you do not have a large enough compressor is to invest in a powered respirator such as a 3M Jupiter which pumps air through two cannister charcoal filters into a possitive pressure headtop or mask. This set-up can cost £600+ or much less on Ebay. It's well worth the investment and as you don't have the worry of breathing in oil laden compressor air could actually be the safest option.


----------



## XRDAN (Feb 28, 2012)

thanks for the info on that mate, very interesting...

the one im using is the churchills 2:1 and was led to believe it was fully iso free including the hardener which is what i thought contained the iso anyway?

i know there is a lot of other nasties in the lacquer, but im using a sata half mask which is pretty good and the seal is very good. This set up may not be ideal but i tend to paint in small burst and not let too much fumes build up witch will saturate the mask, its all down to a bit of common sense but it was the specific risks of iso that i wanted to avoid even with a decent charcoal filter

Dan


----------



## Mondeo220 (Apr 19, 2010)

I used to use this stuff years ago, dictated by the garage I worked for. It was used on alloy wheels and the occasional scuff.

I used to use rocket with it, which sped up the drying process alot. Think it was two capfuls for 1 litre of hardener. Its been a long time so I cannot remember the thinner ratio but around the 10% mark. 

Its horrid stuff, has a yellow tint, and never fully cures in the same way a full fat 2k ISO does. Because of this is prone to reactions when reworked. 

In the end I could get some half decent finishes from it, better than 1k at least! It always feels soft, there is no durability, so not surprised it can be marked with a finger nail. I did use IR to dry it, for about 15 minutes but even months later its still soft!


----------



## XRDAN (Feb 28, 2012)

thanks for that mate, yea its not nice to work with, it takes some thinning to get a smooth wet finish- but i was getting quite nice results after some tweeking- up their with the full fat 2k but its just the drying issues and durability. will try some rocket and lamp it off for longer...

cheers:thumb:


----------



## Jimski (Feb 18, 2013)

Anything further on this? I had a spoiler sprayed and fitted 10 days ago and it's still soft and leaves marks with a nail or when polishing.

I refuse to go back to the same body shop, the trust has gone, as effectively the spoiler needs removing and re-doing. Getting it looked at tomorrow.

Can I expect a hard durable finish?? Surely if my brand new Landy paintwork is rock hard, this can be achieved by a bodyshop?!


----------



## robdcfc (Sep 17, 2012)

Mondeo220 said:


> I used to use this stuff years ago, dictated by the garage I worked for. It was used on alloy wheels and the occasional scuff.
> 
> I used to use rocket with it, which sped up the drying process alot. Think it was two capfuls for 1 litre of hardener. Its been a long time so I cannot remember the thinner ratio but around the 10% mark.
> 
> ...


Surely using Rocket in it defeats the point as Rocket is pure Isocyanate??


----------



## XRDAN (Feb 28, 2012)

Jimski said:


> Anything further on this? I had a spoiler sprayed and fitted 10 days ago and it's still soft and leaves marks with a nail or when polishing.
> 
> I refuse to go back to the same body shop, the trust has gone, as effectively the spoiler needs removing and re-doing. Getting it looked at tomorrow.
> 
> Can I expect a hard durable finish?? Surely if my brand new Landy paintwork is rock hard, this can be achieved by a bodyshop?!


did they say they were using an iso free lacquer? if not then they have got the ratio wrong so take it back:thumb:


----------



## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

Jimski said:


> Anything further on this? I had a spoiler sprayed and fitted 10 days ago and it's still soft and leaves marks with a nail or when polishing.
> 
> I refuse to go back to the same body shop, the trust has gone, as effectively the spoiler needs removing and re-doing. Getting it looked at tomorrow.
> 
> Can I expect a hard durable finish?? Surely if my brand new Landy paintwork is rock hard, this can be achieved by a bodyshop?!


Take it back sounds like they haven't put enough hardener in the laquer


----------



## Mondeo220 (Apr 19, 2010)

robdcfc said:


> Surely using Rocket in it defeats the point as Rocket is pure Isocyanate??


Correct, but this was Bradleys advice years ago, not mine. It worked.


----------



## Mondeo220 (Apr 19, 2010)

Jimski said:


> Anything further on this? I had a spoiler sprayed and fitted 10 days ago and it's still soft and leaves marks with a nail or when polishing.
> 
> I refuse to go back to the same body shop, the trust has gone, as effectively the spoiler needs removing and re-doing. Getting it looked at tomorrow.
> 
> Can I expect a hard durable finish?? Surely if my brand new Landy paintwork is rock hard, this can be achieved by a bodyshop?!


Refinish paintwork is different to OEM, the body panels would have been baked bare, unlike refinish with the car fully assembled. It takes up to 7 days to achieve a durable level of hardness from the clearcoat and thats after 20-30 minutes in the booth. After 10 days it should not be soft enough to mark with your nail.


----------

