# Snow foam not working, what am I doing wrong?



## vRS_Pagey

Guys,

Just had my first attempt at snow foaming, I thought it would be easy, but apparently not!!
It maybe better if I explain, then hopefully someone will tell me what I'm doing wrong.
I'm using a Challenge Xtreme MH20 (Argos cheapy) with 'Carchem' snow foam and a HD lance from 'Clean your car'. 
To start I added approx' 1" of snow foam to the 1 litre bottle, then topped up with cold water, to roughly 4:1 dillution, I then foamed the car running through the adjustment from - to +, only when I reached max on the + did it start foaming, but, it was nothing like images or videos I've seen, I have attached a couple of pictures of the car less than a minute after the foam was applied. 
Obviously disappointed I had another go, this time on a 1:1 ratio, a bit better, but still pants IMHO. Third time lucky - not - this time I turned the outside tap down to practically a trickle, surprisingly this gave the best result with the foam clinging for maybe 90 seconds, what is the most annoying, is my driveway has received a dose of mega foam, as you can probably see from the pictures. 

Sorry for the long winded thread, but I am stumped!!

Please, help?


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## MidlandsCarCare

Where did you get this Carchem Foam from? Any links please?

Also, cheaper pressure washers don't produce thick foam like you see, presumably down to their lower flow rate and pressure level.


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## MidlandsCarCare

Also, did you mess with the settings on the lance?


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## -Kev-

RussZS said:


> Where did you get this Carchem Foam from? Any links please?
> 
> Also, cheaper pressure washers don't produce thick foam like you see, presumably down to their lower flow rate and pressure level.


agree, a high flow rate and a good powerful motor are needed for nice thick foam


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## vRS_Pagey

RussZS said:


> Also, did you mess with the settings on the lance?


I started at - working through to + to see the best setting.



fiestadetailer said:


> agree, a high flow rate and a good powerful motor are needed for nice thick foam


Spec of the PW, 1700w, 80 bar max, 6 litre/min flow............is this no good then?


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## -Kev-

Pagey1255 said:


> I started at - working through to + to see the best setting.
> 
> Spec of the PW, 1700w, 80 bar max, 6 litre/min flow............is this no good then?


my nilfisk c120 is 120 bar and 520 litres per hour flow rate - mucho thick foam


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## vRS_Pagey

RussZS said:


> Where did you get this Carchem Foam from? Any links please?
> 
> Also, cheaper pressure washers don't produce thick foam like you see, presumably down to their lower flow rate and pressure level.


He is the link, not the same packaging, but the same product.....
http://carchem.co.uk/5-litre-super-foaming-snow-foam-p-134.html


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## Spy

My one foams like shaving foam.

I use 1" of Valet Pro Snow Foam with warm water (filling the bottle)

I do think your PW is a little underpowered, mine is a Nilfisk C120 that produces up to 120 bar and 420 l/h (7l/min)


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## Ross

Try some Bilt Hamber autofoam


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## Ste T

i think your going to find its your product, the PW should be ok, if my friends ask i say 100bar is the least i would go to, i have used 100bar and its worked but i did notice the difference to my 130bar,










CarChem Snow Foam contains rinse aids and glossing agents to leave an effortless sparkling finish to all vehicles.

Ideal for use by spray, a snow foam lance or through your pressure washer detergent tank.
Super Foam makes it very long lasting and amazing value for money.


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## MidlandsCarCare

It could be that the Snow Foam is diluted or a very weak formula - it's about £10 per Gallon than most, so I'd be inclined to try another foam too, with proven results.


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## MidlandsCarCare

Try 500ml of the foam... if you dare  See if that helps


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## vRS_Pagey

Spy said:


> My one foams like shaving foam.
> 
> I use 1" of Valet Pro Snow Foam with warm water (filling the bottle)
> 
> I do think your PW is a little underpowered, mine is a Nilfisk C120 that produces up to 120 bar and 420 l/h (7l/min)


Does it have to be warm water? mine does seem powerful enough for the washing bit!


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## -Kev-

Pagey1255 said:


> Does it have to be warm water? mine does seem powerful enough for the washing bit!


water temp makes no difference imo - particually when its being used with a cold water PW anyway


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## vRS_Pagey

Just seen a post by HC1001 in another thread, and it seems he has the same or similar PW to me, which is producing the desired result...............maybe the foam is the problem, ideas in a postcard to 'Snowfoam Virgin' :lol:


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## MidlandsCarCare

Which shampoos do you have? Some, like HyperWash foam as well as dedicated snow foams...


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## vRS_Pagey

RussZS said:


> Which shampoos do you have? Some, like HyperWash foam as well as dedicated snow foams...


I'm new to this, so I only have the one, Megs Nxt Generation shampoo.


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## Ross

Pagey1255 said:


> I'm new to this, so I only have the one, Megs Nxt 2.0 shampoo.


If you need to know more about shampoos come to me the others know:lol::lol:


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## vRS_Pagey

RosswithaOCD said:


> If you need to know more about shampoos come to me the others know:lol::lol:


Help me, is the carchem snow foam the problem?


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## -Kev-

RosswithaOCD said:


> If you need to know more about shampoos come to me *the others know*:lol::lol:


don't we just!:lol:


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## Ninja59

RosswithaOCD said:


> If you need to know more about shampoos come to me the others know:lol::lol:


dear god you'll fall asleep with the bloody shampoo talk you wont get any further never mind polishing or waxing....:lol::lol::lol::lol:

oh btw:i would be tempted to try BH autofoam...doesnt produce the thickest of foam but does plenty of cleaning...


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## Ross

Ninja59 said:


> dear god you'll fall asleep with the bloody shampoo talk you wont get any further never mind polishing or waxing....:lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> oh btw:i would be tempted to try BH autofoam...doesnt produce the thickest of foam but does plenty of cleaning...


When do I talk about shampoos?:lol:


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## Ross

Pagey1255 said:


> Help me, is the carchem snow foam the problem?


I would think so try the BH foam


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## MidlandsCarCare

But the BH Foam isn't the thickest

Try a small ValetPro one, like so:

http://www.i4detailing.co.uk/acatalog/pH_Neutral_Snow_Foam_1L_1.html


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## Ross

The VP foam works quite well


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## Ninja59

RosswithaOCD said:


> When do I talk about shampoos?:lol:


erm......lets think...:lol: im thinking of you meeting him and him sitting in a chair asleep and you still wittling on... rather like a teacher with a blackboard in a garage what an image lol :lol::lol::lol::doublesho talking shampoos i.e he wont ever ever ever get beyond this point...all caused by










VP does work well, but after some back to back testing *i felt* BH was better but as said above buy a small one of the VP first...which reminds me i have a smidgen of it left..


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## Mirror Finish Details

Valet Pro does foam up like shaving foam, I use a CYC lance and only a small pressure washer.


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## little john

Turn your tap up full, water flow makes a difference
Set the nozel so it doesnt do such a wide fan so open but not fully open by twisting the black plastic bit.
Twist the tap on top to the + side mine it is clockwise on a CYC lance. That should give your really thick foam but it will munch through your snow foam solution quickly, but is usefull to see what you get out of it. I turn my tap back between half and a full turn to get decent foam and the 1L bottle lasts 4-5 cars.


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## Looby

little john said:


> Turn your tap up full, water flow makes a difference
> Set the nozel so it doesnt do such a wide fan so open but not fully open by twisting the black plastic bit.
> *Twist the tap on top to the + side mine it is clockwise on a CYC lance*. That should give your really thick foam but it will munch through your snow foam solution quickly, but is usefull to see what you get out of it. I turn my tap back between half and a full turn to get decent foam and the 1L bottle lasts 4-5 cars.


I find that if you turn it all the way to the +, its pants, but if you turn it back 1/4 of a turn, it makes the thickest foam


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## Guest

Looby said:


> I find that if you turn it all the way to the +, its pants, but if you turn it back 1/4 of a turn, it makes the thickest foam


This might be because the - and + are inverted, like they normally are, and - gives the most foam... try it. :thumb:


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## little john

I have seen some lances work + and - the opposite ways round not sure why but I just know mine is + for more foam


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## Guest

the naieve answer would be that the people who screw it together wern't paying enough attention


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## Looby

G220 said:


> This might be because the - and + are inverted, like they normally are, and - gives the most foam... try it. :thumb:


No they deffinatly arent, the + end gives more foam, but if you turn it all the way up, it sort of just stops giving out any foam, and i read it on here somewhere which is what made me try it out, the turn it back 1/4 of a turn thing.


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## racquel

Perhaps you should try a recomended product
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/238090/ultimate_snow_foam.html


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## spitfire

Looby said:


> No they deffinatly arent, the + end gives more foam, but if you turn it all the way up, it sort of just stops giving out any foam, and i read it on here somewhere which is what made me try it out, the turn it back 1/4 of a turn thing.


 Don't worry about it, mine does this too. It's almost like a closed position.


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## Ninja59

racquel said:


> Perhaps you should try a recomended product
> http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/238090/ultimate_snow_foam.html


its virtually the same price as the BH though...


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## Looby

spitfire said:


> Don't worry about it, mine does this too. It's almost like a closed position.


Yeah, and when you turn it back 1/4 of a turn, it gives out optimum foammmm


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## deathlok

try valet pro snowfoam.


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## Spy

deathlok said:


> try valet pro snowfoam.


I also second this, I haven't tried the otehrs such as BH but I do use the Valet Pro product and it definitely gives great foam :argie:


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## vRS_Pagey

deathlok said:


> try valet pro snowfoam.





Spy said:


> I also second this, I haven't tried the otehrs such as BH but I do use the Valet Pro product and it definitely gives great foam :argie:


Will this give results even using my cheapy PW?


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## Ninja59

if you follow the advice from above regarding the 1/4 turn as i have it about the same...foam is not the be all and end all though...


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## Spy

deathlok said:


> try valet pro snowfoam.





Spy said:


> I also second this, I haven't tried the otehrs such as BH but I do use the Valet Pro product and it definitely gives great foam :argie:





Pagey1255 said:


> Will this give results even using my cheapy PW?


Unfortunately I can't say for sure as I don't have your PW !

All I can say is that I bought it based on the excellent reviews and recommendations for it on this forum.

I would suggest you buy this and if you still don't get the type of foam you are after, the problem is unlikely to be the snow foam and could be something else eg snow foam lance, PW etc ?

BTW, I use mine with the CYC lance although I understand that the Elite and Autobrite lances are very similar and just as good.


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## vRS_Pagey

Spy said:


> BTW, I use mine with the CYC lance although I understand that the Elite and Autobrite lances are very similar and just as good.


My lance is a CYC also, and the PW is the same as another member, who has no problems....it must be the snow foam, I will invest in the Valet Pro me thinks, cheers.:thumb:


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## vRS_Pagey

Ok, day 2, all the comments have been taken onboard, so I thougt I'd have another crack at snow foaming, now I have some good news and bad news:

1. Adjust dillution setting to + then 1/4 turn back
2. Water supply up to max
3. The foam looked much better, more like what I expected
4. Foaming performed on a dry car - no rinse - so no extra water to assist dillution
5. 2" of foam, no water added!

It must be the foam solution.


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## little john

You need to put some water in the bottle with the snow foam or your mix will be a little too rich.


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## vRS_Pagey

little john said:


> You need to put some water in the bottle with the snow foam or your mix will be a little too rich.


Tried that yesterday, with very poor results (see attached pictures in 1st post):wall:


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## Padtwo

Have you tried adjusting the fan of the spray? On mine there are two settings to adjust. The +/- setting and the black plastic nozzle itself turns to adjust how the spray fans out. This is what made a difference with mine.

Also bare in mind you don't want it really thick, you want it so the dirt lifts into the foam, and then slides down the panels with the foam


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## vRS_Pagey

Been trawling through youtube, and I have found a video that best shows how my foam is working, IMHO I think that is pretty poor, I thought it would dwell for 5-8 minutes gradually sliding off with the dirt, as you can see in the video, the concentration just seems to watery!

Although the 'Barry' seems happy:lol:






By the way, that is a similar result to mine when I didn't add water to the bottle, just a couple of inches of foam.

The next vid' is what I was expecting.....






Any views?


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## vRS_Pagey

Any comments on the above would be appreciated.


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## Avanti

Pagey1255 said:


> Any comments on the above would be appreciated.


Thick foam don't mean much if it's not removing the soiling, as is long dwell times .


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## vRS_Pagey

Avanti said:


> Thick foam don't mean much if it's not removing the soiling, as is long dwell times .


Thank the lord for Avanti!! been hoping I would hear from you, I agree with the above, but, I haven't got either, thick foam or long dwelling times, and to be honest, the car appeared just as gruddy after a double snow foam whammy last night - conclusion, disappointing product!


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## Avanti

Pagey1255 said:


> Thank the lord for Avanti!! been hoping I would hear from you, I agree with the above, but, I haven't got either, thick foam or long dwelling times, and to be honest, the car appeared just as gruddy after a double snow foam whammy last night - conclusion, disappointing product!


I can't remember the thread I posted in , I have too many shampoo products here, but if I were buying again knowing what I know now, in my armoury would be Swarfega Vehicle wash, AG Pressure wash, Auto Rae snow wax, TW universal, well actually prolly more, remember on a well waxed,polished car there should be little surface tension for the fluid to adhere to other than the traffic soiling which will soon get rinsed off.
For me there are 3 levels of clean after a foam rinse dry
1) Surface looks clean, cloth dries the surface without picking up further soiling itself (same cloth can be used for 3 or 4 cars)

2) Surface looks clean, cloth dries the surface but it's eveident there was fine soiling on the paintwork (cloth to be washed after one use maybe 2 max)

3) Surface looks little different than before (sadly this is the results some are finding from the use of some shouted about products)

AG HD wax (1 coat) certainly withstands high PH solution washes weekly for 12 weeks as shown in another thread and tried twice, even then I don't think it was the shampoo that had effect on the wax coating as the wax would decay over a time (after all plants would not keep producing their own protection if it lasted forever).

HTH


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## vRS_Pagey

Update on the crisis, thanks to the advice of a number of members and tried out some Valet Pro snow foam, just gave it a try, results - perfect! :thumb: Ran the carchem stuff through after to compare - no comparision!!!

Cheers.


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## Spy

Pagey1255 said:


> Update on the crisis, thanks to the advice of a number of members and tried out some Valet Pro snow foam, just gave it a try, results - perfect! :thumb: Ran the carchem stuff through after to compare - no comparision!!!
> 
> Cheers.


Glad you got it sorted :thumb:

Nothing like thick, shaving foam


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## vRS_Pagey

Spy said:


> Glad you got it sorted :thumb:
> 
> Nothing like thick, shaving foam


It was bloody fun........:thumb: doing the house today :lol:


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## Cuffy

I have the same type of conundrum

I got 1L of Valet Pro when I got my lance and it worked great, switched to BH AutoFoam and I am struggling to get it to foam at all - cleans well when I finally manage to get it on the car though.


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## Floozy

-Kev- said:


> my nilfisk c120 is 120 bar and 520 litres per hour flow rate - mucho thick foam


Kev, I've just got the Nilfisk E130 which came with a snow lance(more a plastic bottle to fit to one of the lances) and i haven't had time to use it yet. The head for the bottle has just a take-up tube for the foam liquid and no form of regulation as to how much is pulled up. There's no form of control valve at all. Is that similar to the one you use? The snow foam i've bought is UF Ultimate Snow Foam & it says to use neat. Don't want to set it all up & find it's no good but don't want to spend another £40 on an after-market one if poss...


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## ICBM

I've just gone from Snow foam to Powermaxed TFR. I run the PM at 15-1 and the performance of this vs AF Avalanche and some other generic SF I was using is amazing. I will keep to using the TFR over SF from now on.


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## malcky

At what dilution would the PM tfr strip any previous wax though? if at all that is?

edit.....just seen it as anything stronger than 9:1 dilution will strip wax.


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## Actrosman

And maybe it was the wrong Carchem Snowfoam


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## james_death

Peoples results will vary on product used make of power washer and lance mains pressure flow rate of washer etc etc.

You don't need thick foam for best cleaning... if its thick then its not all touching the vehicles dirty surface.... However you could take a wash mitt to the foam to hand wash the vehicle.

The power washer manufacturer supplied snow lance is not such a think its there just to mix a bit of product not to actually make a foam and mostly have no adjustment dials as a result.

The dedicated snow foam lances are recommended to need a minimum of 120 bar but really 130 bar or more.

I tend to just use a foam neat in the lance bottle and just go round the vehicle once.

As Avanti mentions the better your protection on your vehicle the easier it will be for foam to clean it.


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## james_death

*Repost again of my old foam test.*

Ok Folks after having to wait 3 weeks and 800 Miles before i could get to wash the Polo...














































Yeah certainly a candidate for some snow foaming action...:lol:

So why not a bit of a comparison test....:thumb:

So Rinsed with the power washer and then some side by sides....

These are all in lance bottles in neat form and will be hitting the panels at a mix ration of 1 part product to 25 parts water.

So First Up...

Autosmart Ultra Mousse to the Left...

Autobrite Magifoam to the Right...



















Other Side...

Autosmart Actimousse XLS to the left...

Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam to the Right...



















As a Little extra Comparison...

A side by side on the hatch...

Autobrite Magifoam on the left & Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam on the Right...










Having Taken a swab of each panel after just one application of foam, left to dwell for 5 minutes and then rinsed off.

The swab was taken and put to one side in order to dry fully overnight and then see what, if any muck had been transferred to the swab.

*Remember all Foams were used in neat form from the foam lance bottle.

So Actually were dispensed at a mix ratio of 20:1 so Twenty Parts Water to One Part Foam Product.

So....Pads were Swiped from the Bottom of each respective panel as these were the Dirtiest sections although not taken from the actual sill as getting that low risks catching any crud below the sill bottom edge.










Magifoam was Voted Top... It Actually Came Last from my testing.

Autosmart Ultra Mousse was Voted Last... It Actually Came Third.

Autosmart Actimousse XLS Voted Next to Last... It Actually Came Second Only Just Pipped to the post By the Winner.

Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam Voted Second Best... It's Actually the Winner only just Beating XLS.

The Autosmart Ultramousse was Similar Performance to Autobrite Magifoam... But i would put the Ultramousse as Slightly Better.

So From My Testing Magifoam alongside Ultramousse.










Remember the Pads were swiped once through the relevant Panel that had been cleaned.

The Swiped Pads were left to dry in order to see if any Grime was left on the panel after the Foaming and Rinsing.

Here We Have the Second place Actimousse XLS alongside the Winner Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam.










Now although still not fully clean the XLS & Auto-Foam Only left a very miniscule amount behind.

For my own Personal Test, Since i had only just received Magifoam having heard good things about it for what seams like forever, i did a side by side on the Hatch with what i have found to be an excellent foam that being the Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam.

Now the Very Cruddy Hatch had one hit of each product, one on each side again.

This power washed off again after 5 Minutes but this time i swiped each side with each pad twice.

Both did not remove all but again the Bilt Hamber Autofoam Performed the Best.

The Hatch Pad pics seam to have fallen into a Black Hole....:wall:

However they are at the top of this shot...








*


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## makelja

shine247 said:


> I have recently tried BH in my psa lance and foam wise it was rubbish. That is not to say it is rubbish but if you want foam don't buy BH. It lands on the car and turns to a runny mixture. My lance works perfectly with other foams with less product too. I have also tried it in my Mesto, that produces a really thick layer with just a few ml of regular product. Tried BH at the same dilution, no foam at all, tried it at 50ml in 1l, still watery. I am not suggesting thick foam cleans better but anyone thinking of BH wanting a true foam effect, stay clear.


Diluting BH Autofoam is not the correct way of using it in a foam lance. Just put 1dl on the bottom and turn 1/2 turn from maximum and you will have the best effect.
It does not produce a shaving foam like effect, but does the best job in cleaning.


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## Blue Al

Just throwing this idea out there
Would a more diluted mix, different lance setting of the foamy products have helped their performance improve towards the BH result ?

I know that's another variable but might help explain the results,


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## steve6690

I've only come to this hobby very recently, and only tried BH Autofoam. I don't dilute it because it doesn't make any sense to me as that is what the lance does anyway. I use the adjuster knob on my PA lance to achieve the level of foaming I want.
It works fine with my Nilfisk E120.8. Nice foam, although not as thick as I've seen on pictures posted here, but I leave it on the car for 5 minutes and when I pressure wash it all off it takes all the dirt with it.
I use about 300ml of product to do two quick passes around my 3 series estate.


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## shine247

Blue Al said:


> Just throwing this idea out there
> Would a more diluted mix, different lance setting of the foamy products have helped their performance improve towards the BH result ?
> 
> I know that's another variable but might help explain the results,


That's just one variable and a good point, there are others too. That is not to take anything away from James' test but many of these comparison tests could give a different result over numerous tests



steve6690 said:


> I use about 300ml of product to do two quick passes around my 3 series estate.


Some might say at around a quid or more per hit that is quite costly. Some will be fine with it. I know a pump sprayer is far more economical which is how used it until I ran out if my regular product. BH have recently suggested their dilution in the lance and you might be pretty close.


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## steve6690

I might give the BH a whizz in a pressure sprayer then and see how it does. Diluted to 5% for starters.


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## GT Paddy

Actrosman said:


> And maybe it was the wrong Carchem Snowfoam


This is the foam I use and I am happy with it. My dad uses the same and he is also very happy too.


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## james_death

When i do tests i tend to run them over months when I'm doing it for myself... Then only post after testing over and over to come to my final conclusion's.

As ever level of protection amount of and type of contamination all so many variables.

Im not one for this one inch or two inches in a bottle people have different size bottles etc and after running such levels of foams over a few years it was always disappointing never really getting any cleaning as such.

However once built hamber gave details of what dilution should be hitting the panel it made you sit down and do the math.

Never understood the filling a bottle with water and a bit of snow foam solution then going round the vehicle 3 or 4 times using it up rinsing in between and not getting much if at all off, compared to going round once at a neat or near neat solution in bottle and actually getting it clean or close to fully clean each time.


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## Alanalan

After using BH Autofoam and tried the one or two inches in bottle and watering down in lance bottle never really impressed with the cleaning power.
But now use neat in bottle and very impressed how much dirt it removes and don't use any more than I use too when I watered it down.


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## steve6690

steve6690 said:


> I might give the BH a whizz in a pressure sprayer then and see how it does. Diluted to 5% for starters.


Just tried 100ml with 2 litres of hot water in a pump sprayer and it was at least as effective as using the foam lance. There was pretty much nothing left to wash off the car afterwards and I've only used 1/3rd of the product compared to the foam lance. 
Very impressed with it.


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## shine247

steve6690 said:


> of hot water in a pump sprayer


Warm water improves the effectiveness of products greatly and that seems the best way to apply that product. Much less waste too.


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## roscopervis

Floozy said:


> Kev, I've just got the Nilfisk E130 which came with a snow lance(more a plastic bottle to fit to one of the lances) and i haven't had time to use it yet. The head for the bottle has just a take-up tube for the foam liquid and no form of regulation as to how much is pulled up. There's no form of control valve at all. Is that similar to the one you use? The snow foam i've bought is UF Ultimate Snow Foam & it says to use neat. Don't want to set it all up & find it's no good but don't want to spend another £40 on an after-market one if poss...


That is not a snow foam lance, it is just a soap distributor. You need to purchase a proper snowfoam lance if you want snow foam.


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