# Networking problem.



## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

OK guys, I could do with a bit of know how from the experts on a problem that's got us a little stumped...

We moved into a new house in June and I've finally got my home office up and running after the renovation work. Both computers (Macs: G5 tower and Macbook) and all peripherals are in and fired up. This office is an extension at the back of the garage (built by previous owners) and so is a fair way from the router (Netgear DG834GT).

Now the problem being that we just can't sustain a decent signal from the router in the dining room to any computers in the office. It seems to peak and drop randomly during the day, really effecting internet performance. If the Macbook is used say in the lounge which is actually further away than the office then the signal is just fine, with no drop off and a maximum strength signal. If we use an extension wire for the router and bring that into the office, then that is equally slow due to the length of the cable. 

A friend of ours reckons its the large RSJ in the kitchen that could be causing issues with the signal bouncing around?

I'm guessing the only solution is to have dedicated BT socket put into the office?

With the relative short distances involved I thought we'd be ok with the router in a central location to transmit a signal over the house. The same router coped just fine in the old place with similar distances to cover - seems not!

We have a work around. Namely to transfer files to a USB stick and then pop them on the laptop and bring into range, then send to clients etc. Frustrating, and far from ideal, but it works :wall:

Any pointers really welcome folks as to what would work best :thumb:


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## robj20 (Jan 20, 2009)

Get a repeater or two and increase the coverage of the wireless or invest a power antenna for the wireless and increase the power of it.

http://www.wifi-antennas.co.uk/index.php?target=categories&category_id=212


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Can you not just run a cat5 LANcbale from the router to the office?

Also worth trying a different channel on the wireless settings as someone close by could be using the same one.


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## Matt197 (Dec 27, 2006)

I take it your new office is detached from the house?

When you say _"If we use an extension wire for the router and bring that into the office, then that is equally slow due to the length of the cable."_

What type of cable are you using?

My dad has an office right at the bottom of the garden and we just run a normal Rj45 network cable inside some thick plastic tubing in to the house, and that works fine.


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

Powerline networking perhaps?

As said you could use wireless repeaters too.

Does sound a little odd though, unless you live in a very big house I've always been surprised just how far wireless signals seem to radiate.


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

cat5 is good for 100 metres.


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## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

Hi guys. Aoplogies for the tardy response, and thanks for the replies. :thumb: Had a bit of a frantic day yesterday. :wall:

Robj20: Antennas and a signal booster are a good idea - thanks for the link Rob.

Ardandy: Tricky to run a cable neatly as its crossing through a couple of rooms or through into the garage. Could be done with some planning though. Not sure how to actually change the channel of the router, didn't know this could be done?

Matt197: Office is an extension on the back of the garage so is attached to the house (sort of), but there is a mini hallway separating the office and the kitchen. Effectively two external walls for the signal to pass through, plus the distance of course.

Hutchingsp: The idea of power line networking does appeal I have to say. My mate suggested this, but I've no idea where to start! Will do a bit of research this week.


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## Matt197 (Dec 27, 2006)

In that case, Home Plug sounds ideal for what you need.

Not used them myself so don't know how fast they are, but I am sure you can find some reviews, most places like Dabs sell them.


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

See if you can force it to 802.11b and see if the reliability increases. 

Also check to see there aren't any other networks nearby on the same or a close channel as there is a little bit of overlap. (Change it to 1 or 11 if there are a few around that are in the 3/6/9 range).

Setting up another wireless bridge might mean replacing the current modem/router with two new dedicated bits of kit or you could go wired if possible - will be much more stable.


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## nick-a6 (Jun 9, 2007)

Cabling to the garage or power networking could be your best option.

I have worked in houses that just have complete dead spots for wireless even with £500 worth of netgear routers and repeaters.


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## m0bov (May 2, 2007)

Do you have a PIR in that room? If so try switching it off, other as others have said, try other channels.


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Power socket networks produce a massive amount of interferance. 

I'd personally do it properly with a cable.


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## robj20 (Jan 20, 2009)

Cable would be my choice as well, well worth the initial messing about, i have a network panel in every room of the house now and wifi for the garden.


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## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

ardandy said:


> Power socket networks produce a massive amount of interferance.
> 
> I'd personally do it properly with a cable.


Well if that's the case. A cable solution it is - now where did I put that hammer drill...! :wall:

Well, I'm up and running (sort of) by employing a long 5M Ethernet cable borrowed from the father in law, trailing through kitchen and office. This has worked as a quick easy cheap fix. This issue will have to be addressed properly though asap as tripping over an ethernet lead is not fun!

The cable connection is definitely the correct solution as it genuinely feels a little faster than the Wi-Fi connection anyway. Its going to mean a bit of a faff running the cable through the garage and back into the office, but it will be worth it long term.

So, what do I need to buy to do this properly? I'm guessing I need to have an Ethernet cable made up to the exact length? Is this correct, or is it a DIY job?


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

by the time you buy the connections, the cable and the crimper tool you might as well pick one up off the shelf and get busy with the tacks and trunking. I would run the cable from the modem/router to another switch and then cable off from there locally in the room as needed.


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## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

Midlands Detailing said:


> by the time you buy the connections, the cable and the crimper tool you might as well pick one up off the shelf and get busy with the tacks and trunking. I would run the cable from the modem/router to another switch and then cable off from there locally in the room as needed.


Excuse the inexperience in all things like this, but what sort of switch? Any links


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Or just buy a 20m cable off ebay for about £4


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

yetizone said:


> Excuse the inexperience in all things like this, but what sort of switch? Any links


This will do the job - http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=413820&CatId=


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## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

Midlands Detailing said:


> This will do the job - http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=413820&CatId=


That looks just the ticket actually. With the switch it will make adding more computers (if necessary) much easier than messing about swapping cables. Ta for the link :thumb:



ardandy said:


> Or just buy a 20m cable off ebay for about £4


 Will do, so I'm guessing I need a CAT5 or CAT6 grade? Is that correct?

Something like this (for ref)...

http://www.maplin.co.uk/searchtemplate.asp?criteria=ETHERNET CABLE


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## Ric (Feb 4, 2007)

I would invest in a nice Apple airport extreme

you can run N wireless and G at the same time, therefore your macbook is going to benefit from the 300mbit connection, not to mention the better range of N over G

I have one at home, and the G signal is soo much better, you also get gigabit connections via ethernet on there.

i can do you any length of cat6/7, let me know what you need just pay the postage


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## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

carbonangel said:


> I would invest in a nice Apple airport extreme
> 
> you can run N wireless and G at the same time, therefore your macbook is going to benefit from the 300mbit connection, not to mention the better range of N over G
> 
> ...


I have to admit - I'd never thought of an Airport Extreme? Would there be compatibility problems between N or G frequencies? How would this link up to the Netgear router?

Thanks for the offer on the cable too :thumb:


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## robj20 (Jan 20, 2009)

100m Cat5 - £20
crimping tool - £10
rj45 crimps x 100 - £5

Really doesn't cost that much and is simple to do your self.

I have in total 200meters of cabling in my house, and 3 switches, even the bathroom has network access.


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## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

Just before I order cable, is there any advantage in buying 'shielded cable'? Noticed that this is an option on some websites?


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Only need shielded stuff or Cat5e if its going outside.


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## Ric (Feb 4, 2007)

yetizone said:


> I have to admit - I'd never thought of an Airport Extreme? Would there be compatibility problems between N or G frequencies? How would this link up to the Netgear router?
> 
> Thanks for the offer on the cable too :thumb:


No interference no, they really are a nice peice of kit, you just connect your netgear to the "internet" port on the airport



ardandy said:


> Only need shielded stuff or Cat5e if its going outside.


Incorrect, shielded is for electro/magnetic interference, its always best to use STP (Shielded twisted pair) over distance unless you are making small Patch leads where UTP can be used.


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## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

carbonangel said:


> No interference no, they really are a nice peice of kit, you just connect your netgear to the "internet" port on the airport
> 
> Incorrect, shielded is for electro/magnetic interference, its always best to use STP (Shielded twisted pair) over distance unless you are making small Patch leads where UTP can be used.


Seeing as there is a lot of electrical cabling in the garage, in fact the whole house is fed by the run of wires from the consumer unit in the garage, then I'm assuming that shielded cable would be the better option?

Would shielded CAT6 be a wiser choice than CAT5?


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

For the extra in cost, no.


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## robj20 (Jan 20, 2009)

In homes cat6 offers nothing over cat5, all it has is a strengthening core, its purely an industrial standard, stick with bog basic cat5 and you will be fine.


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## Ric (Feb 4, 2007)

yetizone said:


> Would shielded CAT6 be a wiser choice than CAT5?


Just get some Shielded cat5, STP, FTP, UTP are all availible in catv, 6, 7 etc

In all honesty if its a small run, indoors, you should be ok with Cat5 patch, but if you want to do the job proporly get some shielded stuff 



robj20 said:


> In homes cat6 offers nothing over cat5, all it has is a strengthening core, its purely an industrial standard, stick with bog basic cat5 and you will be fine.


Cat6 has larger cores to increase length and data speeds/capacity, it doesent have a strengthening core, but a seperator to keep the pairs apart and decrease the chance of crosstalk not to mention a grounding core aswell


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## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

Thanks for all the help folks - the office studio is now fully wired up to the net via a 15M long ethernet patch cable (CAT6 from Maplins IIRC) that a relative had going spare. Tried for length and it was just fine with about a metre and a half to spare after going around all of the obstacles (door surrounds etc) and housing in conduit and then drilling through both walls etc. :thumb:

The next buy will be a four way switch so that I don't have to keep plugging and unplugging computers and then all will be done. May plunge for an Apple Airport Base Station, plug this into the switch and set up a mini network in the office so that I can share a printer and possibly a hard drive for iTunes too. Will see


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## robj20 (Jan 20, 2009)

Always buy a switch with more ports than you currently need, i have a professional ones throughout my house from work, with 24 ports on each. I started using 4 now im up to 12 on one of them.


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## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

I only have two computers in the office and there will probably be an Apple Airport at some point, that's it really for switch duties as it were. Is there any other reason for having extra ports? Was considering the Netgear switches as I already have a Netgear router that's been pretty reliable so far....

http://www.netgear.co.uk/ethernet_network_switch_gs605.php

My mistake, it has five ports!


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## robj20 (Jan 20, 2009)

You might add things at a later date, i ended up adding all sorts to mine, network printer for instance and tv. Its just worth having a couple more than you need now, just incase, only cost another couple of quid.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

always worth having did ours a far while back but router is upstairs im on the oppossite side of the house for general now again surfing i found wireless to suffice but ill be honest long term cabled is more secure and easier. regarding switches (well technically speaking that netgear is not a switch but a hub techies will of course know the diff) but having the extra ports is worth while i quickly went from having the it installed and the netgear switch to ending with 4 other connections and just make a note that one port will be used for the incoming CAT5 so you have one less port....just in case you think it has 5 useable ports for items in reality its only 4 there is not one marked for the incoming CAT5 -router as it were


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## Mike_182 (Mar 22, 2007)

Extensions tend to make your wireless seem crap - the problem is you're used to the wireless going through internal walls, and the extension will be on the other side of an external wall, which is usually much more solid in it's construct. The RSJ is possibly going to have some impact although 'bouncing around' sounds like a pub expert.

You should be able to get a 'repeater' stuck to the wall in the kitchen - usually get one of the same brand as your router just for ease of configuration but it's unlikely to make significant difference to how effective it is - and you'll be sorted.


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## Mike_182 (Mar 22, 2007)

Wireless is only as insecure as you make it - I challenge anyone to crack mine at home and at work. Wired, all you need is physical access...


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## robj20 (Jan 20, 2009)

Mike_182 said:


> Wireless is only as insecure as you make it - I challenge anyone to crack mine at home and at work. Wired, all you need is physical access...


Same can be said with wireless.


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## Mike_182 (Mar 22, 2007)

The ports on the wireless VLANs here are using 802.1X for MAC authentication. Even if you have physical access to my wireless kit, you aren't getting in :thumb:


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## robj20 (Jan 20, 2009)

You can do the same on a wired network.


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## Mike_182 (Mar 22, 2007)

robj20 said:


> You can do the same on a wired network.


On a large scale it's much less manageable... But yes. The argument wasn't how secure wired networks can be, it was how secure wireless networks aren't. The simple answer is they are secure if you make them...


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## robj20 (Jan 20, 2009)

There are still ways around it though, people can and do hack them. Its easier to park outside your house and hack it than break in and tap into your wired network.

The simple case is wired is better in all but the work involved in setting it up.


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## Mike_182 (Mar 22, 2007)

If you set it up properly, they aren't getting on your wireless network. 128-bit encryption key and hidden SSID is more than adequate for the man to still be there after a week's holiday trying to hack your wireless, which at most probably has a naked picture of your wife on that's of interest to him.

Perhaps a course on Cisco AiroNet access points would help your understanding? These things wouldn't be used by the people I've worked with if they could be hacked in a day... Do you sit at the bedroom window with a rifle looking for people watching you? The government are coming to get us, massive degausser on your doors sort of thing?

Your porn isn't that important - the worst you'll face in most situations is someone who is waiting for their Internet to be installed and wants to play online before then!


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## robj20 (Jan 20, 2009)

And how many people use Cisco kit at home. I have already done Cisco CCNA.
I bet 30% of home users don't even have any security on there wireless, i can get on next doors easily and there is one just out of range that has nothing on it. If it were cable i wouldnt.
Lower ping on cable as well and faster network speeds.


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## Mike_182 (Mar 22, 2007)

I've got four 1141s and an ASA, but you may have to exclude me from the 'normal people' group! :thumb:

The simple fact is that at home, WPA2 with AES CCMP is more than capable of defeating 99.999% of determined hackers, and will deter every opportunist. And that's a standard feature on most home routers now.

Just because these people don't, doesn't mean it can't - it just requires education. There's no need for anyone to fear having a wireless network in the way that your initial posts indicated, just give people the basic knowledge they need to secure their network!


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## robj20 (Jan 20, 2009)

My initial posts are giving advice on how to extend his wireless.
The fact is if you have the time to lay the cable, its better than wireless.


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## Mike_182 (Mar 22, 2007)

But less convenient. My iPhone doesn't take wires... I'm guessing if he wants to extend the wireless for his laptop, it might be nice to be able to use it when moving around...


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