# Bilberry disappointing



## Samh92 (Aug 30, 2012)

Well used bilberry wheel cleaner today at 1:6 ratio, spayed on left to dwell for a few minutes, sprayed off and still thick break dust and dirty?

Am I doing something wrong here


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## Natalie (Jan 19, 2011)

Did you agitate or just rinse off?


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## DetailedClean (Jan 31, 2012)

If its thick breakdust try it less diluted.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Try it neat on brake dust, it doesn't work too good on iron fall out though in my experience, use wolfs deironiser instead.


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## sparkey32 (Aug 11, 2012)

i used it too Sam, but with a dilution of 4/1 and it did the job nicely, maybe give that a try, oh plus i agitated it with a brush too.


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## Samh92 (Aug 30, 2012)

Just rinsed off, will add more to it when it comes washing someone's car next week


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## Andy1983 (Mar 21, 2012)

On sealed wheels I used it 1:3 with excellent results. If you're using it on unsealed wheels I'd go 1:1.


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

I'm using it 15:1 with a gentle wheel brush (swissvax one) or agitation 


Comes straight off

I'm Using the Angelwax bilberry if that makes any difference


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## Samh92 (Aug 30, 2012)

I should of asked before reading the bottles useless instructions


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Bilberry is good cleaner, I have used a very small sample on my wheels, I sprayed Bilberry and agitated around the rim, left the wheels in clean condition once finished plus smells nice; the performance of the product is good.

One wheel cleaner I have to try is smart wheels, still have to purchase this as it gets strong reviews and recommendations on here.


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

ahem (*cough*) Espuma Revolution Wheel Cleaner anyone


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## Samh92 (Aug 30, 2012)

Tips said:


> ahem (*cough*) Espuma Revolution Wheel Cleaner anyone


Ahhhhh :lol:


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Tip's is Espuma Revolution a alkaline wheel cleaner or fully acid based, I assume it's alkaline as most wheel cleaners are acidic and alkaline to some degree.
This product use to get mentioned often on here, it's a long time since someone recommended this wheel cleaner, same as there RD50 tyre dressing.

One Question though, Tip's how does Revolution compare to Smart wheels, as most detailers use smart wheels as there choice of wheel cleaner.


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

Is smart wheels used as a maintenance wheel wash? It's fairly strong iirc, wheels need re sealing after each use?

I may be wrong


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

Trip tdi said:


> Tip's is Espuma Revolution a alkaline wheel cleaner or fully acid based, I assume it's alkaline as most wheel cleaners are acidic and alkaline to some degree.
> This product use to get mentioned often on here, it's a long time since someone recommended this wheel cleaner, same as there RD50 tyre dressing.
> 
> One Question though, Tip's how does Revolution compare to Smart wheels, as most detailers use smart wheels as there choice of wheel cleaner.


Dunno Trip, I'm just causing some mischief, I've got a sample of Revolution coming my way though 

Wheel cleaners are wheel cleaners are wheel cleaners - as all my alloys are sealed, and I never let them get too grimy (see detailing cheat thread) any wheel cleaner brand will do the job for me. :thumb:


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

Junior Bear said:


> Is smart wheels used as a maintenance wheel wash? It's fairly strong iirc, wheels need re sealing after each use?
> 
> I may be wrong


AS Smart wheels is a wheel cleaner with Iron-X type brake dust decon abilities combined (except there is no purple bleeding) Bilt Hamber is another wheel cleaner/brake dust decon two in one wheel cleaner, but that bleeds as quick as Iron-X :doublesho


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Tips said:


> Dunno Trip, I'm just causing some mischief, I've got a sample of Revolution coming my way though
> 
> Wheel cleaners are wheel cleaners are wheel cleaners - as all my alloys are sealed, and I never let them get too grimy (see detailing cheat thread) any wheel cleaner brand will do the job for me. :thumb:


I like your honest response Tip's :thumb:

One thing did get me on your message, you causing mischief, never


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

Trip tdi said:


> I like your honest response Tip's :thumb:
> 
> One thing did get me on your message, you causing mischief, never


You know me Trips :thumb:

I'm just thinking about saving pennies on the regular staples in my kit.

Espuma Revolution Acid Free Heavy Duty Wheel cleaner comes in at £13 + vat for 5litres in concentrate form and it dilutes at 1:10 or 1:20, and the 1:20 dilution strength of Revolution shifts dirt better than Bilberry at 1:10 according to respected members on here. :thumb:


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Tips said:


> You know me Trips :thumb:
> 
> I'm just thinking about saving pennies on the regular staples in my kit.
> 
> Espuma Revolution Acid Free Heavy Duty Wheel cleaner comes in at £13 + vat for 5litres in concentrate form and it dilutes at 1:10 or 1:20, and the 1:20 dilution strength of Revolution shifts dirt better than Bilberry at 1:10 according to respected members on here. :thumb:


I know you too well Tip's, we always meet on here :thumb:

I remember seeing a video on here Tip's a few years back, Espuma Revolution was sprayed on a 911 rim if I am correct, no agitation and simply pressure washed off, the wheel came out spot less :thumb:

The problem is there is too many products on the market now, makes it a tough choice to choose.


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## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

Espuma Revolution>Bilberry.

Simply spray it on and leave to dwell then rinse off :thumb:


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## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

Trip tdi said:


> I remember seeing a video on here Tip's a few years back, Espuma Revolution was *sprayed on *a 911 rim if I am correct, *no agitation and simply pressure washed off*, the wheel came out spot less :thumb:


You beat me to it :thumb:


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

Trip tdi said:


> I know you too well Tip's, we always meet on here :thumb:
> 
> I remember seeing a video on here Tip's a few years back, Espuma Revolution was sprayed on a 911 rim if I am correct, no agitation and simply pressure washed off, the wheel came out spot less :thumb:
> 
> The problem is there is too many products on the market now, makes it a tough choice to choose.


I saw that demo too - ah my DW lurking days, it was all so much simpler back then 

For wheel cleaners I'd go as cheap as you can, it doesn't matter if it is acid free or not, the alkaline wheel cleaners can be just as damaging in the wrong hands. So long as the wheel cleaner is cheap and in concentrate format, that'll do me fine, additional bonus points for low foaming action and pleasant smelling, and colour etc.

Then spend the pennies saved on a decent wheel sealant


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

DMH-01 said:


> Espuma Revolution>Bilberry.
> 
> Simply spray it on and leave to dwell then rinse off :thumb:


Now there's a man that knows his onions 

If Revolution gets Dan's blessing then that's all I need to know


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2012)

Billbery is just a standard wheel cleaner, it is a powerful wheel cleaner, however it will not remove all of the iron fall out. This is why Iron x and wolfs Decon Gel have been brought out :thumb:


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

AS smart wheels is a strong wheel cleaner and as Ben Gum stated above, it uses a different method/ingredients in removing fallout as compared to the standard Iron-X type 'chelating process' derivatives.

Bilt Hamber Auto wheel, is classed as a PH Neutral wheel cleaner but this has spectacular purple fallout reaction when applied - so this product delivers on both fronts. :thumb:


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## mr.t (Oct 1, 2010)

You do need to adjitate with a wheel brush bud.i dont think the dirt will simply fall off by rinsing unless your wheels are sealed and then pressure washed off.i lov bilbery wheel cleanee.a little goes a long way.


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

In answer to the OP's question, carry on using the wheel cleaner, but agitate it onto your wheel faces and blast off as much crud as you can with a pressure washer.

Then introduce a fallout remover product to deal with the iron/brake dust deposits that the wheel cleaner can't tackle.


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## wadoryu (Jan 28, 2010)

I think bilberry sucks, very cherry. Is much much better.


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## stealthwolf (Sep 24, 2008)

I used Bilberry on wheels that were sealed 12 months ago with PBWS and the inner faces hadn't been cleaned since. Spray on, agitate, dwell, rinse. Then used tardis on the tar spots and wheel weight glue.


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## svended (Oct 7, 2011)

As all above have said. Spray on, agitate then rinse. If after a second hit it leaves anything, give a deironiser a spray and let it have a minute or so then agitate and rinse. If you've ne deironiser use a little car or metal polish on the bad areas (but not too much pressure as you don't want to damage them or create a dull spot) and wipe off. To help in future get a good wax or sealant and it'll help no end in cleaning them in the future.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Nothing wrong with bilberry, especially if you've got a litre of concentrate needs using!

I've reverted back to it after an expensive jaunt into trying go use deironiser both touchless and agitated (three hits min!).

1:10 on mild dirt, 1:5 on more bedded in stuff is all you need I've found...you will need a vikan brush/EZ brush plus a one inch round brush to work it though... oh, and some patience.

I use this now before any sort of iron product in order to use cheap "go further" chemicals before expensive ones. Neat iron x on dirty wheels is an impressive looking waste of money in my opinion. For the average guy at home. Get a wheel cleaner and brush out first.

Optimally, sealing them up after makes it easier for next time! 

Two notes; 1) this does refer to the valet pro version.

2) Also, I have found using it regularly can dull a wheel finish slightly (could be the brushing or the chemicals). Nothing that a paint cleanser/seal doesn't reverse. First time I used SRP on my wheels, I couldn't believe the difference!


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

I found I needed it at around 4 parts water to 1part bilberry to be anything like easy work.


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## tzotzo (Nov 15, 2009)

Both versions are very good wheel cleaners.

Just agitate pal and you'll be fine.


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## Mr Shoelaces (Dec 27, 2007)

if you want a wheel cleaner that works, that is value for money, with good dilution rates, is there really any other product that can compete with espuma revolution wheel cleaner. i dont think there is, the only problem is you might not want to buy 5lts because it dilutes 10:1
espuma £13.80 dilutes 10:1
smart wheels £19.99 dilutes 3:1

after using both espuma gets my vote!


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## Samh92 (Aug 30, 2012)

Tried the other day on my brothers white wheels once I added more bilberry, and it see,ed great tbh,

Thanks guys/girls


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## Mr Shoelaces (Dec 27, 2007)

I was just quoting the dilution rates as advertised on Elite Car care who are authorised resellers, that all..... after nearly 30 years in the valeting and detailing industry i must be a maniac then, but after all everyone has their own idea on whats right.

FYI - http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/autosmart-smart-wheels-acid-free-wheel-cleaner-5-litres.php


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## Mr Shoelaces (Dec 27, 2007)

So if the dilution rates are the same and the performance is the same your saying Espuma still works out cheaper? thanks for clearing that up!


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## jlw41 (Jun 5, 2011)

Smart wheels is like £11.50 from your rep 

and I use it at 10:1 to great effect :thumb:


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