# how to get the best from swissvax CF pro?



## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

jut off outside to give my new cf pro a try....

never used any cleaner fluids via machine other than lime prime

many have said is "similar" to menz FF, so do i treat it like that?


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## Roy (Jan 17, 2007)

I think you'll find it finishes down a lot quicker, I tend to use it around 1500rpm for correction work, and at 1000-1100 for refining. 

Regards, Roy.


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

didnt manage to get to try it today, but cheers


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

You can work it a LOT longer than FF Ian and it seems to work better, spread slow then speed up 1500ish and machine til clear (and it really does go clear) then go slow for a few passes just to be sure of no trails or holograms


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## Roy (Jan 17, 2007)

Tim your just confusing me now We must have different techniques, but to be honest haven't used FF that much.


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

:lol: :lol:

well ill try both


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

hopefully will try this tomorrow as well :thumb:


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2009)

Its still very expensive.

The only way I would be able to try this is if a sample run was done.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Bigpikle said:


> hopefully will try this tomorrow as well :thumb:


I'll be interested to hear if you think its as much better than 85RD and #205 as its price suggests it is 

Given the results I, and many others can now achieve with products like 85RD or Megs new #205, it will really have to be something very special indeed.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Bigpikle said:


> hopefully will try this tomorrow as well :thumb:


I have some coming as well now for more testing


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2009)

Does that mean someone is sending out samples?


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

matt1263 said:


> Does that mean someone is sending out samples?


No, I purchased a bottle and Damon knows somebody who uses it


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2009)

Pity, as cant afford £50 on a bottle, but a sample run of 250ml i could afford :thumb:


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

i bit the bullet with the discount being offered :lol: ive been after a sample for ages, but its probably like trying to get a sample of vintage :lol:

i WILL be using it tomorrow, 100% its getting used on my car!!!!!!


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2009)

More than happy to pay for 250ml, just cant afford the full litre!


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Fancy selling me some Ian? I'll come and collect it


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

matt1263 said:


> Pity, as cant afford £50 on a bottle, but a sample run of 250ml i could afford :thumb:


The bottles are 500ml Matt in the 1st place


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Envy Valeting said:


> The bottles are 500ml Matt in the 1st place


Nice looking bottle though


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## grant_evans (Mar 2, 2008)

ianFRST said:


> i bit the bullet with the discount being offered :lol: ive been after a sample for ages, but its probably like trying to get a sample of vintage :lol:
> 
> i WILL be using it tomorrow, 100% its getting used on my car!!!!!!


hmm sample run could be an option, will look into sorting somthing out. im sure a few people would be interested in 50/100ml samples


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2009)

:doublesho

erm, 500ml for £58?

:doublesho

Is it really that good?


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

matt1263 said:


> :doublesho
> 
> erm, 500ml for £58?
> 
> ...


Doubt it, but i will post up my thoughts


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2009)

Thats more expensive than the Scholl products, which some people say is the same thing, but with the Scholl you get ALOT more.

But IF its ALOT better than Menz, Megs, Scholl then its something I would buy, hence after a sample of to try.

:thumb:


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

Epoch said:


> Nice looking bottle though


 And it makes that nice _fart_ sound half empty ketchup bottles in cafe's do too Jon if you dont shake it down to the spout when using it:thumb: Just dont do it when customers are around or you'd not be invited back LOL
Easily amused me:lol:


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Envy Valeting said:


> And it makes that nice _fart_ sound half empty ketchup bottles in cafe's do too Jon if you dont shake it down to the spout when using it:thumb: Just dont do it when customers are around or you'd not be invited back LOL
> Easily amused me:lol:


You know i'm going to be doing the same :thumb:


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

So is it _that_ much better than 85RD, #205 or the Scholl which apparently it is with different labels?

Better at all?

Or a case, as with many polishes, that the end result comes very much down to the operator of the machine rather than the outright brilliance of the polish


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Dave KG said:


> So is it _that_ much better than 85RD, #205 or the Scholl which apparently it is with different labels?
> 
> Better at all?
> 
> Or a case, as with many polishes, that the end result comes very much down to the operator of the machine rather than the outright brilliance of the polish


Who really cares, it's a fun hobby that I love.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

well I didnt get to use it this session, so cracked out some 85rd for maximising the gloss on the Audi before waxing. That polish (85rd) is something else, and I had a great session with it, so now have a better benchmark for future products. Look forward to finally getting to try the 205 and CF Pro at some point though


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

We has a nice play with megs 205 and the new Menz 203s yesterday.
Now with the Flex 4 to 1 thought there was just something extra with the 203s compared to the 205.
But in comparison with the rotary it was totally turned around. With the 205, having the edge.

But to be honest both ever nice products to work with and use.
Gordon


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Epoch said:


> Who really cares, it's a fun hobby that I love.


A lot of people who would be considering buying it, care - especially as its not a cheap product to just buy only to find out its not any better than what is currently available on the market.

Yes its a fun hobby, we all love it.

However, on a forum, information on the viability of products and how they compete in the market is very valuable indeed from those who can share this info... comparitive tests are highly valuable, its why many of us do them.

To that end, I care - I care about whether a product that costs five times more than 85RD actually warrants its costs as if it does its something I can buy, use, and also recommend to others as well.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Dave KG said:


> A lot of people who would be considering buying it, care - especially as its not a cheap product to just buy only to find out its not any better than what is currently available on the market.
> 
> Yes its a fun hobby, we all love it.
> 
> ...


OK on that vein, I can see what your saying, but there is no tangible way that this product will be 5 times better than other direct own label equivalent products, that's not how life works.

I don't really think that needs stating in the outcome of extensive testing.

I do however suspect this particlar product is gong to be one of the better ones after speaking to a number of people from here. It's cost just comes at a premium.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Epoch said:


> OK on that vein, I can see what your saying, but there is no tangible way that this product will be 5 times better than other direct own label equivalent products, that's not how life works.
> 
> I don't really think that needs stating in the outcome of extensive testing.
> 
> I do however suspect this particlar product is gong to be one of the better ones after speaking to a number of people from here. It's cost just comes at a premium.


I am well aware that it is unlikely to be five times better, but when you see a product that is so clearly much more heaviliy priced than its competition, as CF Pro is, it is perfectly reasonable to seek justification as to why... There is nothing wrong with that, irrespective of how life works 

I'm sure it wont be a bad product - quite confident.

But - could I happily recommend a product costing, for sake of argument £50, to someone knowing that there is a product on the market costing a tenner that performs just as well, just as easily? I couldn't. (All in my opinion of performance of course).

What, to me at least, would need to be made clear from any extensive testing would be how the polish performed in terms of:

a) Correction
b) Finishing abilities
c) Ease of use

of a variety of platforms, that is soft paint, hard paint, sticky paint etc... 85RD and #205 are the benchmark for finishing, and I would be very interested to see exactly how this performs alongside it.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Dave KG said:


> I am well aware that it is unlikely to be five times better, but when you see a product that is so clearly much more heaviliy priced than its competition, as CF Pro is, it is perfectly reasonable to seek justification as to why... There is nothing wrong with that, irrespective of how life works
> 
> I'm sure it wont be a bad product - quite confident.
> 
> ...


85RD costs about £18 for a litre if memory serves me correct

205 is £34.99 for 946ml

Is 205 twice as good as 85RD?


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Epoch said:


> 85RD costs about £18 for a litre if memory serves me correct
> 
> 205 is £34.99 for 946ml
> 
> Is 205 twice as good as 85RD?


In terms of the fact it uses a unigrit abrasive and so the finishing it achives it achives in a much quicker time, yes... Its also less suscpetable to sticky paint in my experience of it too, but not as good as #80 in this respect. Needed a little feeling in to get it working for me on sticky paint though, but on normal paint is is a real joy to use. Both of these count very strongly for it and go quite some way to justifying its cost.


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2009)

I suppose some of the cost is because of market saturation, lots of companies now doing lots of products, so for instance Megs used to have 90% of the market when it comes to correction compounds, now its (for instance) under 50%, so they have to put the price up to make up for the short fall.

With the swissvac, their price might be up because they have to buy it in from a different company but use higher grade materials within that product.

But at £58, thats nearly 3 litres of 85!


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

matt1263 said:


> I suppose some of the cost is because of market saturation, lots of companies now doing lots of products, so for instance Megs used to have 90% of the market when it comes to correction compounds, now its (for instance) under 50%, so they have to put the price up to make up for the short fall.
> 
> With the swissvac, their price might be up because they have to buy it in from a different company but use higher grade materials within that product.
> 
> But at £58, thats nearly 3 litres of 85!


Which is why I am very interested to hear, and see testing to show it genuinely warrants its price tag - above and beyond any marketing. Epoch cites above the price differential of #205 and 85RD, double the cost but 205 does for me have some advantages - its why after trying a sample, I went out and bought some for myself, if it was no better than what I had, I wouldn't have bothered.

But the price differential of 205 and 85RD really sort of pales into insignificance looking at the CF Pro price, it really is very expensive. But _if_ it warrants that cost, I would happily purchase it


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2009)

Where did you get sample of 205? Intrested in trying all the different compounds to see which I prefer.

If, and its a big IF, the CF pro is that good, then I would save up for some, but without a sample or someone to risk putting their neck on the line to say its THE BEST, then I just cant justify spending £58 to test it.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Dave KG said:


> In terms of the fact it uses a unigrit abrasive and so the finishing it achives it achives in a much quicker time, yes... Its also less suscpetable to sticky paint in my experience of it too, but not as good as #80 in this respect. Needed a little feeling in to get it working for me on sticky paint though, but on normal paint is is a real joy to use. Both of these count very strongly for it and go quite some way to justifying its cost.


Have you not seen above Dave

The CF pro bottle makes a fart noise when you use it!


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2009)

hahaha


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

matt1263 said:


> Where did you get sample of 205? Intrested in trying all the different compounds to see which I prefer.
> 
> If, and its a big IF, the CF pro is that good, then I would save up for some, but without a sample or someone to risk putting their neck on the line to say its THE BEST, then I just cant justify spending £58 to test it.


I'll PM you, and send you a little sample down 



Epoch said:


> Have you not seen above Dave
> 
> The CF pro bottle makes a fart noise when you use it!


Sold


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2009)

I now have a scrap panel to test all products/pads on, plus to refine my technique.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

matt1263 said:


> Where did you get sample of 205? Intrested in trying all the different compounds to see which I prefer.
> 
> If, and its a big IF, the CF pro is that good, then I would save up for some, but without a sample or someone to risk putting their neck on the line to say its THE BEST, then I just cant justify spending £58 to test it.


There are no wonder products Matt, otherwise we'd all be detailers :lol:

Technique is far more important, however sometimes its fun to learn how to get the best from new products and develop your undrstanding of them.


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2009)

I know their is no wonder product, never is, but its why I like samples, so I can try and see which is best for me.

I am still (think always will) improving my technique, but always like playing and improving.

:thumb:


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

I can see the appeal of this as a one step correct and LSP ready for Swissvax wax users, so I'm going to buy some with BOS to see how I get on.

It's convenience more than anything else, and something else to play with


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

matt1263 said:


> I know their is no wonder product, never is, but its why I like samples, so I can try and see which is best for me.
> 
> I am still (think always will) improving my technique, but always like playing and improving.
> 
> :thumb:


Me too


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Epoch said:


> No, I purchased a bottle ....


You spent £58 on half a litre of polish?????

:doublesho

F*ck me, is it good stuff??

:doublesho:doublesho

Seriously, after all the debacle on using expensive waxes, then you're getting mugged on something that cost's less than a quid to make?

Credit crunch my *rse


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

L200 Steve said:


> You spent £58 on half a litre of polish?????
> 
> :doublesho
> 
> ...


IIRC it £56, stop making it look more expensive


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Minus 10%

It's a bargain tbh!


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

RussZS said:


> Minus 10%
> 
> It's a bargain tbh!


I think that was just through March


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Epoch said:


> 85RD costs about £18 for a litre if memory serves me correct
> 
> 205 is £34.99 for 946ml
> 
> Is 205 twice as good as 85RD?





Dave KG said:


> In terms of the fact it uses a unigrit abrasive and so the finishing it achives it achives in a much quicker time, yes... Its also less suscpetable to *sticky paint* in my experience of it too, but not as good as #80 in this respect. Needed a little feeling in to get it working for me on sticky paint though, but on normal paint is is a real joy to use. Both of these count very strongly for it and go quite some way to justifying its cost.


I didn't find #205 half as good as 85RD.

I found that it really suffered on sticky paint.

How much are those little bottles of Menz, and can you still buy them? These were really good value for money (Why buy a litre of product to use just a drop, when you can buy a 1/4 of a litre for 1/2 of the price, to only use a drop before moving on to the next hyped product?)


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2009)

Tim at CYC has em in stock.

I find the little bottles fantastic, use em all up, onto next lol


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Epoch said:


> IIRC it £56, stop making it look more expensive


Did I ever tell you that Thomas has got 3 kidney's.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

L200 Steve said:


> I didn't find #205 half as good as 85RD.
> 
> I found that it really suffered on sticky paint.
> 
> How much are those little bottles of Menz, and can you still buy them? These were really good value for money (Why buy a litre of product to use just a drop, when you can buy a 1/4 of a litre for 1/2 of the price, to only use a drop before moving on to the next hyped product?)


I was going to get the 205 out again today, but went for something I've more run time with

Menz still do them bottles i've seen a few retailers that do them. Great purchase and thinking about it for the casual user

£8 vs £35 then for the Menz Vs Megs purchase (as i'd think most wouldn't need more than 250ml)


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

L200 Steve said:


> Did I ever tell you that Thomas has got 3 kidney's.


I did here you say that, I guess the market for them has fallen lol


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

L200 Steve said:


> I didn't find #205 half as good as 85RD.
> 
> I found that it really suffered on sticky paint.
> 
> How much are those little bottles of Menz, and can you still buy them? These were really good value for money (Why buy a litre of product to use just a drop, when you can buy a 1/4 of a litre for 1/2 of the price, to only use a drop before moving on to the next hyped product?)


Thats interesting, we have quite different results with the #205... on known sticky paint I found that #205 coped admirably though not quite as smooth as the oilier #80... Definitely better than Menzerna in terms of what it would let you away with though, and the overall finish from it was definitely on par with 85RD but with greater cut and a quicker work time (if you like that, its ideal for a business, but then I do like my lazier working polishes which is why I still like good old #80-series).

Can see it becoming a more regular part of my detailing routine this coming year and like the Menz, I can see it being here to stay (as opposed to quite a few other polishes that, while good, just aren't what I reach for in my kit bag...)


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

hmmmm, well i did the bonnet on my ST with it this evening, and im not impressed yet! :lol: need to find a more fitting car with a better colour and more swirls :lol:

but then again, i did the roof with 203s, and i stopped using it after 1/4 of the roof! dam menz clogging up


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

ianFRST said:


> hmmmm, well i did the bonnet on my ST with it this evening, and im not impressed yet! :lol: need to find a more fitting car with a better colour and more swirls :lol:
> 
> but then again, i did the roof with 203s, and i stopped using it after 1/4 of the roof! dam menz clogging up


Did the pot not make a fart noise?

Sorry

Oh well you win some and you loose some


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

yes it certainly did!!! and then splattered all over me too :lol:


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

ianFRST said:


> yes it certainly did!!! and then splattered all over me too :lol:


HHmm about £10 wasted then lol


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

thats what i thought too!!! as i wiped it off my jumper i though "crap, theres a quids worth" :lol: :lol:


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

ianFRST said:


> but then again, i did the roof with 203s, and i stopped using it after 1/4 of the roof! dam menz clogging up


I presume you have a bit of Vintage on the bonnet which then means it must have been temp related as 203s polishing over Vintage on mine was OK

(I had wondered if it would cause a "sticky Paint" type situation still could hev been the skill of the operator Mr L200)


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

definately temp related, i clayed the roof last week, and its not seen an LSP since last summer  yet i did half of the bonnet and it was FINE! and that was straight over vintage, strange


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

Epoch said:


> Did the pot not make a fart noise?
> 
> Sorry
> 
> Oh well you win some and you loose some





ianFRST said:


> yes it certainly did!!! and then splattered all over me too :lol:


See thats the kind of feedback you get from me, the product works and has novelty value LOL.
Forgot the mention splatter :thumb:


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Should have mine for the weekend, so will hopefully will be entertaining the family

Nice and well lubed i'm told


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

Indeed Jon, the only way to go..and so is the SWCFP


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Envy Valeting said:


> And it makes that nice _fart_ sound half empty ketchup bottles in cafe's do too Jon if you dont shake it down to the spout when using it:thumb: Just dont do it when customers are around or you'd not be invited back LOL
> *Easily amused me*:lol:





Envy Valeting said:


> Indeed Jon, the only way to go..and so is the SWCFP


:lol:


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