# Towing Laws and Regulations



## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

Evening All

Happy New Year!

So, I need some clarification and as I keep going round in circles reading one thing and then another,telling myself yes that's fine, but then, no then doesn't sound right!

I plan to tow a car with another car on a trailer and i acquired my license after 1st January 1997 which is when the 3500KG limit came into action.

So here are the facts and figures:

*Towing Vehicle:*

VW Golf GTD 2.0TDi
kerb Weight 1377KG
Towing Capacity: 1800KG

*Vehicle to be Towed*
2008 Vauxhall Astra VXR
Kerb Weight 1230KG

Now it doesn't actually weigh that with all the heavy seats removed etc etc but for legalities,I want to play it on the safe side.

So this is the statement i've been reading:

_"If you passed your car driving test on or after 1 January 1997 you can: drive a car or van up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass ( MAM ) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM. tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg"_
https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/what-you-can-tow

So am I right in thinking that the 1377KG Golf + 1230KG Astra gives me a total weight of 2607KG. Now bearing in mind the towing capacity of the Golf (1800KG) that means i could find a trailer that weighs 570KG or lower thus giving me a total weight of 1377KG + 1230KG + 570KG = 3177KG.

I'm guessing that's all legal in line with UK road law? The trailer that i would use is twin axle and will be braked also if that makes any difference?

Any help or confirmation is much appreciated! I know there are a lot of people on here who have trailers etc!

Thanks

Ben


----------



## st1965 (Apr 21, 2016)

Dont quote me but i was under the impression its a combinied weight of upto 3500kg so i would say you are ok


----------



## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

st1965 said:


> Dont quote me but i was under the impression its a combinied weight of upto 3500kg so i would say you are ok


I agree, that was how I interpreted that statement.

My only concern is that i read something along the lines of:

The trailer and vehicle being towed must not weigh more than the towing vehicle. Now i can't remember where i read that and actually makes no sense if the towing capacity of the car is 1800KG if it only weights 1377KG?


----------



## st1965 (Apr 21, 2016)

With a caravan, the kurb weight cant be more than 85% of the kerb weight of the car as this is actualy illegal but with a car trailer im not 100% sure but could possibly be the same due to the fact that if the trailer is heavier it will "push" you under braking....and you need to make sure you have B+E category on your licience for it to be legal too


----------



## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

st1965 said:


> With a caravan, the kurb weight cant be more than 85% of the kerb weight of the car as this is actualy illegal but with a car trailer im not 100% sure but could possibly be the same due to the fact that if the trailer is heavier it will "push" you under braking....and you need to make sure you have B+E category on your licience for it to be legal too


This is what i mean, its so confusing haha!

I think 3500 combined weight is fine on my standard license....


----------



## Simo87 (Oct 5, 2016)

3500kg is the max weight you can drive with "b" or "b+e" after that your in the realms of "c" licensing. That's the only reason the limit is there, however common sense prevails. A 1000kg should not tow 2000kg.. but your figures should be no dramas.

Simmo.


----------



## st1965 (Apr 21, 2016)

As long as you can tow 1800 kg with your golf then its all good regarding weight ratios...good luck fella


----------



## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

Simo87 said:


> 3500kg is the max weight you can drive with "b" or "b+e" after that your in the realms of "c" licensing. That's the only reason the limit is there, however common sense prevails. A 1000kg should not tow 2000kg.. but your figures should be no dramas.
> 
> Simmo.


Thanks mate,

That's my concern, i have the golf 1377 towing potentially 1800, i guess its not a huge weight ratio, and the trailer will be braked!

I just want clear cut yes or no from somewhere because i know if i see blue flashing lights or i get pulled over, my heart would start to sink haha!


----------



## Simo87 (Oct 5, 2016)

From this.. you could either drive a 3500kg vehicle with a 750kg trailer.

Or drive a vehicle (under 3500) and tow a heavier load as long as you do not exceed 3500 MAM.. combined Weight.

So you should be good mate

Simmo.


----------



## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

st1965 said:


> As long as you can tow 1800 kg with your golf then its all good regarding weight ratios...good luck fella


Yep, this is what is making me think i'm worrying over nothing!

towing capacity would be 1377KG if it could tow anything heavier than itself surely!


----------



## Simo87 (Oct 5, 2016)

B17BLG said:


> Yep, this is what is making me think i'm worrying over nothing!
> 
> towing capacity would be 1377KG if it could tow anything heavier than itself surely!


Towing capacity is depicted from the engine not necessarily the vehicle itself, look at a tractor unit and trailer... a few ton unit pulling upto 40 ton weight.

Simmo.


----------



## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

Simo87 said:


> Towing capacity is depicted from the engine not necessarily the vehicle itself, look at a tractor unit and trailer... a few ton unit pulling upto 40 ton weight.
> 
> Simmo.


Thanks!

I'm hiring a trailer for a few runs to start with and I'm going to buy my own to fit in the garage!


----------



## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

Lot of weight pushing be carrefull


----------



## Ducky (Mar 19, 2007)

I'd be wary of towing a something that is almost as heavy as the towing vehicle if it's not on a braked trailer.


----------



## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

The kerb weight isn't the fully laden weight which is what these rules apply to. So you need to find out how much maximum weight your car will weight when it is full of occupants, baggage and fuel, it will tell you this in the manual.

So your kerb weight of 1377kg will be much less than the MAM weight which could be circa 1800kg which is what this goes off, regardles if its just you in the car. you then have to factor in the fully laden weight of the vehicle you want on the trailer, so another 1800kg car takes you past 3500kg. Then the weight of the trailer etc.

When you look at it, these days mostly it's just about enough to tow a small trailer to take rubbish to the dump!

The rules do stipulate its the MAM figure they go off, not the kerb weight.


----------



## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

So if your golf has a mam (gvw is the older term I believe) of say 1800kg and you have a trailer that weighs 600kg but has a MAM of 1700kg which makes 3500kg you're fine as you shouldn't be putting anything on the trailer that weighs more than 1100kg.

If you have your car at 1800kg and your trailer is 600kg but has a mam of 1800kg too...it means you're 100kg over regardless if the car your towing on the trailer weighs next to nothing and it actually weighs less then 3500kg on a weigh bridge.

It's confusing how the government word it out but basically, you have to add up the gross vehicle weight and heaviest trailer weight at its maximum capacity, if it's over 3500kg, it's a no go.


----------



## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

B17BLG said:


> So am I right in thinking that the 1377KG Golf + 1230KG Astra gives me a total weight of 2607KG. Now bearing in mind the towing capacity of the Golf (1800KG) that means i could find a trailer that weighs 570KG or lower thus giving me a total weight of 1377KG + 1230KG + 570KG = 3177KG.


Sorry this is my 3rd reply as its difficult to explain.

So to the above, you may...possibly be in once you know the MAM weights but the way you've worked it out is wrong.

The best thing to do is rule out the car your towing.

Find MAM value of the Golf firstly, then find a trailer with a MAM that can support the Weight of astra, the weight of the Astra doesn't need to be in the equation as you just have to work out the mam of the golf, the trailer and then finally if the trailers mam allows the you can just stick the Astra in it and go.

The other option is...an A frame dolly, as an a frame dolly and car on it..counts as a trailer.


----------



## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

Starbucks is correct here, kerb weights have nothing to do with it. 
You have to find the MAMfor your Golf and for your trailer, if that's more than 3.500 you need a B+E.
You have to have brakes on your trailer, otherwise you maximal towing weight is 750kg.
You will find out that 2 axle trailers will be in many cases have a too high MAM, to tow behind a car, hence the reason you see them mostimes behind a van or 4x4.
The combination you want to make has a big chance for tail wagging the dog.

I would not go above 80% of the towing vehicle MAM, to have a safe combination.

The argument that a truck with a relative small tractor unit can pull a massive trailer, is because this is a combination which is matched.
With full operating brakes, and not run over brakes.
Abs and EBS on the trailer.


----------



## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

Starbuck88 said:


> Sorry this is my 3rd reply as its difficult to explain.
> 
> So to the above, you may...possibly be in once you know the MAM weights but the way you've worked it out is wrong.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Starting to make sense now. So the MAM of the Golf and the MAM of the trailer must not exceed 3500KG added together.

So the Golf has a GVW of 1850 which leaves me with 1650 of MAM to play with for the trailer. Which then if the car weighs 1230KG I can have a trailer weighing 420KG because it would then take the car also totalling 1650KG.


----------



## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

Starbuck88 said:


> Sorry this is my 3rd reply as its difficult to explain.
> 
> So to the above, you may...possibly be in once you know the MAM weights but the way you've worked it out is wrong.
> 
> ...


I'd also be keen to understand this option. Although I'm sure I've read that the being towed must be roadworthy, taxed MOT insured etc.

Being honest an A frame would ideal as I can store it and it might counter the towing weight issue.

I shall do some digging on laws and report back


----------



## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

I'll try and explain this simply as it's complex, some posters have the right idea, kerbweight isn't the issue really, you'll need the Maximum Authorised Mass (used to be called Gross Vehicle Weight) which is the cars maximum plated fully loaded weight.

The trailer you will be pulling must weigh less than 3500kgs minus the Golf's MAM.

In the instance of my car (I quote because I know the figures) which is a 2009 Volvo XC70 D5 Auto the MAM is 2300 kgs so on a B licence you would only be able to pull a weight of 1200kgs.

The kerbweight only comes into the equation when talking about the trailer weight which cannot be heavier than the towing cars kerbweight though that only came in from Jan 19th 2013 to the best of my knowledge so if you passed before then you will be good.

The 1800kg figure given by VW is just what the drivetrain can handle, it's the same figure in a Passat, Tiguan etc. There is no way I'd tow anything that size with a small hatchback!! I tow a 1750kg caravan with the Volvo which weighs nearly 2000kgs and in heavy winds you really know about it though a car is a different story ofc.

Also worth noting that someone who passed before 1997 and gained grandfather rights with their licence cannot accompany someone towing with L plates, you have to actually take the test to do it. I took mine many years ago as I passed my test 12/12/2001.

You seem to have it now, 1850 is your MAM so you have 1650kgs of towing weight to play with if you can find a trailer that is light enough (and you should be able to) it'll be a legal combination. 

Best of luck with it, it's a bloody mine field!


----------



## TRN Ent (Nov 16, 2008)

It is a complete minefield, one minute you think you're legal, the next you don't.

"tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg"

So your Cars MAM 1850kgs...
Don't forget the MAM of the trailer. It's all well and good it only weighing 500kgs and the other Car weighing only 1000kgs, but the MAM of the Trailer has the potential to weigh up to 2000kgs-for example (You'll need to look at the weight plate on the trailer).
So the 'combined MAM' would be 3850kgs.

At least that is how I understand it, which is why I don't think I am legal to tow an empty trailer weighing 500kgs but could potentially weigh up to 2000kgs.
A caravan is different, because they often weigh more but don't have much payload so the MAM is relatively low, and the 85% thing I read was a recommended weight limit, so if you could tow 1000kgs, if towing a Caravan reduce that to 850kgs.

Tom.


----------



## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

TRN Ent said:


> It is a complete minefield, one minute you think you're legal, the next you don't.
> 
> "tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg"
> 
> ...


You are correct there, the 85% is advisory, but a very sound advise.
The MAM is only what count (unless you are overloaded) and yes you are correct that you cannot move an empty trailer with a to high MAM.

The other thing is to advise your insurer if you want to pull a trailer.


----------



## LSherratt (Dec 27, 2011)

Just go and do your B+E license. Cost me £450 all in. Simples. Then you'll be able to drive and tow anything with a combined train weight of up to 7.5 tonne


----------



## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

CoOkIeMoNsTeR said:


> I'll try and explain this simply as it's complex, some posters have the right idea, kerbweight isn't the issue really, you'll need the Maximum Authorised Mass (used to be called Gross Vehicle Weight) which is the cars maximum plated fully loaded weight.
> 
> The trailer you will be pulling must weigh less than 3500kgs minus the Golf's MAM.
> 
> ...


Thanks mate. I'm best offs getting the Astra weighed so I know what I have to play with.

I'll be towing about 5 miles at the moment but I just want to be sure it's legal no matter the distance!


----------



## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

LSherratt said:


> Just go and do your B+E license. Cost me £450 all in. Simples. Then you'll be able to drive and tow anything with a combined train weight of up to 7.5 tonne


Yes this is certainly a big option for me. The test is actually about £100 but I guess you had lessons prior?


----------



## LSherratt (Dec 27, 2011)

B17BLG said:


> Yes this is certainly a big option for me. The test is actually about £100 but I guess you had lessons prior?


Yeah I had approx 8 hours worth of tuition. (4 x 2hour lessons).

The test is flawed IMO as the actual amount of "trailer skill" such a reversing etc is minimal and they test you on a pre-set reversing exercise so you can practise it over and over again. The majority of the test is driving on the road and they will assess you as if you are learning to pass your driving test for the first time again. It's a big money earner.


----------



## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

B17BLG said:


> Thanks. Starting to make sense now. So the MAM of the Golf and the MAM of the trailer must not exceed 3500KG added together.
> 
> So the Golf has a GVW of 1850 which leaves me with 1650 of MAM to play with for the trailer. Which then if the car weighs 1230KG I can have a trailer weighing 420KG because it would then take the car also totalling 1650KG.


Again it's the MAM of the trailer you need to worry about, Not the kerb weight of the trailer as the MAM figure is the total gross weight the trailer will weigh when fully loaded.

So you get a trailer that weighs 420kg as in your thinking above but has itself a MAM of 1700kg, you'd be over. So you are right and not at the same time. Different trailers at the same kerb weight will have different MAMs.

MAM of Golf and MAM of trailer = either above or below 3500kg,

You then have to work out if the combination of those, allows for a trailer suitable enough for your car.

Than you have the percentage of what you're towing to contend with.

P.s I was going to do something similar to yourself in the end I couldn't get a combo that would work so gave up.

One day I'll do the trailer test. Sorted then.


----------



## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

The whole thing about towing is crazy. I passed back in the 80s so am fine but had no training whatsoever and an easier test by far. If they suddenly need legislation and a seperate test for towing why wasn't it brought in for all? I know this would be a pain for lots (including me) but stupid that older drivers can tow with no training yet younger ones can't!! 

As for towing weights, it's so complicated very few users tandem it, you can even go on caravan sites and nobody has a clue.


----------



## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

The test is surprisingly easy, I did mine years ago and it has come in really handy since even outside having a caravan


----------



## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

It's always seemed daft that it goes on the plated weight of the trailer rather than what you're actually towing, I guess it's just easier to regulate and enforce the way it is.

If you only need to move a car occasionally then you can hire car trasporters which come under the standard 3.5ton limit for fairly reasonable money.


----------



## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

Starbuck88 said:


> Again it's the MAM of the trailer you need to worry about, Not the kerb weight of the trailer as the MAM figure is the total gross weight the trailer will weigh when fully loaded.
> 
> So you get a trailer that weighs 420kg as in your thinking above but has itself a MAM of 1700kg, you'd be over. So you are right and not at the same time. Different trailers at the same kerb weight will have different MAMs.
> 
> ...


This for me is now looking like the option! I have to consider so many things its unreal. I think I'm going to hire a trailer for a few days (unloaded) and get my bearings with some of the maneuvers and do the test!

I guess at this point, most of my worries then go away as i can tow a MAM up to 7.5Tonne


----------



## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

B17BLG said:


> This for me is now looking like the option! I have to consider so many things its unreal. I think I'm going to hire a trailer for a few days (unloaded) and get my bearings with some of the maneuvers and do the test!
> 
> I guess at this point, most of my worries then go away as i can tow a MAM up to 7.5Tonne


This is it, probably the easiest way to do what you want to and it gives you the capability in the future!

Good idea ref hiring a trailer for a few days so you can practice!


----------



## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

Starbuck88 said:


> This is it, probably the easiest way to do what you want to and it gives you the capability in the future!
> 
> Good idea ref hiring a trailer for a few days so you can practice!


This is the crazy thing. I could hire a trailer that has a MAM of 2500KG but is empty and that's still illegal.

Does anybody know if you can get a trailers MAM downgraded?

This could also be the answer? There are plenty of lightweight trailers out there that have high MAMs. Could I specify the MAM weight i want them to put on the trailer?


----------



## chuckleuk (May 3, 2011)

B17BLG said:


> This is the crazy thing. I could hire a trailer that has a MAM of 2500KG but is empty and that's still illegal.
> 
> Does anybody know if you can get a trailers MAM downgraded?
> 
> This could also be the answer? There are plenty of lightweight trailers out there that have high MAMs. Could I specify the MAM weight i want them to put on the trailer?


This company will help you with weight changes
http://www.svtech.co.uk
Think it's around £150 so cheaper than B+E test


----------



## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

chuckleuk said:


> This company will help you with weight changes
> http://www.svtech.co.uk
> Think it's around £150 so cheaper than B+E test


Thanks!


----------



## chuckleuk (May 3, 2011)

I took my B+E test today, passed with one minor fault. I'd recommend just doing the test, was so easy the examiner was great not trying to catch me out or anything.


----------



## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

chuckleuk said:


> I took my B+E test today, passed with one minor fault. I'd recommend just doing the test, was so easy the examiner was great not trying to catch me out or anything.


That's good to know. I now have a trailer which is a woodford LWT. 1600KG MAM and weighs 400KG itself. Got the car weighed yesterday at 1216KG with the air con still in and half a tank of fuel.

The Golf seems to pull it well too. Plenty of torque and stability!


----------

