# New Line of Turtle Wax Ceramic Products



## Sheep

I opened up my youtube tab today and saw a few videos from some of the detailing channels I follow talking about a new line of Turtule Wax Ceramic infused products.











There is a few products including

Ceramic Wash and Wax
Ceramic 3 in 1 Detailer
Ceramic Spray Coating
Ceramic Wet wax
Ceramic Polish and wax

Will be really interesting to see how these perform. There is some examples shown in the video, with the Coating repelling a wheel cleaner with ease. Apparently this is stronger than SNS/SHW but with similar application methods. Will be interesting to see how it does.


----------



## WHIZZER

Hopefully will be getting some soon to try ....


----------



## 66Rob

Saw this last night on Jimbo's Detailing channel (but hadnt seen the Apex detailing one) looking forward to trying these out, I hope we don't have to wait too long after the US release.

Great to see a lot of the YouTube detailers together. Car Cleaning Guru and Darren from Auto Fetish Detail :thumb:

Edit : looks like 01/12 release date in the UK


----------



## nicks16v

I must say I was pretty impressed with the Hydrophobic Sealant wax spray, so really looking forward to trying this little lot out. Lets hope as mentioned it doesn't take forever for us to get them. Anyone know why they rename them for the UK ? The Sealant wax is called something else over there isn't it?


----------



## Fatboy40

If these use more complex silicon, so not just straight basic and cheap polydimethysiloxane, then I'll be very interested in their pricing and concentrations (primarily the Ceramic Spray Coating).

Edit: Very "American" labelling... the Ceramic Spray Coating has "INSANE water beading".

Edit 2: For the "Ceramic Spray Coating" we have... Water, Dimethicone, Isopropanol, Disiloxane, Amorphous Silica, Fragrance, Carnauba Wax, Acetic Acid, Polixetonium Chloride, Dicocodimethlyammonium Chrloride, Oxxxmine Ethoxylate, Benzenepropanoic Acid, Bxx2.2.6.6-Pentamethyl-4-Pipxdinyl Sebecate

Edit 3: I'm only an enthusiast but so far the above chemicals don't indicate anything radically different or new from what specialist products provide, although it's interesting to note the acids and salts, and the final chemical being a "plasticiser". Let's see what the prices of these products are, also I wonder if we'll ever find out the quantities of each chemical?


----------



## WHIZZER

The range is launching a month later in UK due to production schedules so will launch on 1st November in the US & 1st December in the UK. I'm not able to confirm the pricepoints yet.

You can see the different products and their benefits in the promotional video on https://www.turtlewax.com/. As you already know, all the products in the range are infused with SiO2, but here is a summary of the specific products:

Ceramic Wash & Wax: 
• Scratch-free cleaning that leaves behind shine and protection for months
• Super hydrophobic & Si02 polymers create a durable barrier for both coated and uncoated cars
• Super concentrated formula that only requires 3 oz. to a gallon of water

Ceramic 3-in-1 Detailer: 
• Safe, waterless cleaning that intensifies shine and adds ceramic wax protection 
• Luxurious, silky feeling hydro-glide polymers trap dirt and grim
• Easy-to-use spray formula infused with hydrophobic and Si02 polymers can be used on all non-porous surfaces

Ceramic Polish & Wax:
• Paint correct, polish, wax, and protect your vehicle in one step
• Super hydrophobic and Si02 polymers deliver extreme water • beading that lasts for months
• High action formula that only requires a thin application of product proves that less is more

Ceramic Wet Wax:
• High shine, high gloss finish with a simple wipe and dry
• Super hydrophobic and Si02 polymers deliver instant water repelling and chemical resistance protection
• Less is more with this highly active and concentrated formula
One-step application, just spray onto a clean wet car and dry

Ceramic Spray Coating:
• Super hydrophobic and Si02 polymers deliver protection that lasts up to 12 months
• Water repelling, water sheeting and chemical resistant protection keeps water spots and contaminants to a minimum in between washes

that's a little more info about them


----------



## NorthantsPete

wet wax will be interesting as it cuts out a step

Will it be as cheap to run as Demon shine or carplan trade valet? Will it be as durable as the slightly (5% extra effort) harder to apply Sonax BSD - I expect not.

So, once again no place in my aresenal.


Ceramic spray coating? We already have sonax for that.. or carplan no.1 at £5... will it be £5 or less?


----------



## Del-GTi

Will be worth keeping an eye on ECP or CP4L when it’s released, as they normally sell new stuff off cheap to begin with.


----------



## TonyHill

Turtle Wax really seemed to have turned a corner. Not so long ago people wouldn't touch them with a barge pole!


----------



## AndyKay

TonyHill said:


> Turtle Wax really seemed to have turned a corner. Not so long ago people wouldn't touch them with a barge pole!


Exactly. I bought 4 bottles of their seal n Shine stuff, so very interested in these new releases


----------



## Sheep

NorthantsPete said:


> wet wax will be interesting as it cuts out a step
> 
> Will it be as cheap to run as Demon shine or carplan trade valet? Will it be as durable as the slightly (5% extra effort) harder to apply Sonax BSD - I expect not.
> 
> So, once again no place in my aresenal.
> 
> Ceramic spray coating? We already have sonax for that.. or carplan no.1 at £5... will it be £5 or less?


I'm not sure I understand your post. BSD is roughly as durable as SNS in my testing, but SNS is far nicer to use and slicker in feel. I don't feel that durability is a priority for a "wax as you dry" product, they they did say it's really concentrated so might go a long way.

The ceramic spray coating is also not really matched by Sonax. The have PNS, but you don't get many cars per bottle, and again it doesn't feel that slick. And CC36 is ~$100 where I live, and you'll get 2 cars out of a kit. Sonax makes great stuff but I find the turtle wax products are more user friendly and have other properties that Sonax doesn't (feel, slickness).


----------



## Deje

66Rob said:


> Saw this last night on Jimbo's Detailing channel (but hadnt seen the Apex detailing one) looking forward to trying these out, I hope we don't have to wait too long after the US release.
> 
> Great to see a lot of the YouTube detailers together. Car Cleaning Guru and Darren from Auto Fetish Detail :thumb:
> 
> Edit : looks like 01/12 release date in the UK


How many non-sponsored detailers will fit into a sponsored event?


----------



## Andy from Sandy

> Super concentrated formula that only requires 3 oz. to a gallon of water


Hardly when you consider most other shampoos are 1oz or in the case of 1900:1 just 5ml.


----------



## nicks16v

Proof will be in the pudding eh ? Its all well and good inviting all the influencers down and bombarding youtube with the new releases, but at the end of the day its what us consumers think that really matters. Remember Beadmaker ? In reality it turns out that it is just a good gloss enhancer that doesn't last that long and doesn't bead that well either in my opinion.


----------



## NorthantsPete

Sheep said:


> I I don't feel that durability is a priority for a "wax as you dry" produc.


That's the thing - durability IS the most important factor of spray on waxes and detailers as it is their one major weakness.

THAT is what they are working on. So far, noone has created an ultimate slick feeling, but 3 month durable product. Sonax goes on ok but you dont buff it so people dont feel its slippery liek butter.

I havent tried Carplan No.1 however which boasts 12 months...


----------



## Brian1612

Andy from Sandy said:


> Hardly when you consider most other shampoos are 1oz or in the case of 1900:1 just 5ml.


As good as carchem 1900:1 is... the dilution ratio is nonsense. I find 10-15ml is needed for roughly 10L of water and that's with soft water.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## Andy from Sandy

Maybe but 3oz to a gallon is also miles away from super concentrated.

And remember that is a US gallon so is only 3.8litres


----------



## Sheep

NorthantsPete said:


> That's the thing - durability IS the most important factor of spray on waxes and detailers as it is their one major weakness.
> 
> THAT is what they are working on. So far, noone has created an ultimate slick feeling, but 3 month durable product. Sonax goes on ok but you dont buff it so people dont feel its slippery liek butter.
> 
> I havent tried Carplan No.1 however which boasts 12 months...


You're confusing spray on wipe off (dry use) with wax as you dry (Wet use) All manufactures that make products that work wet and dry will tell you that the wet application doesn't have the same durability. BSD isn't even listed as compatible on the bottle for wet application where as Turtle Wax SNS/HSW is. The New wet wax from turtle wax is supposedly much more concentrated, and the videos showing some preliminary testing look promising.


----------



## Sheep

nicks16v said:


> Proof will be in the pudding eh ? Its all well and good inviting all the influencers down and bombarding youtube with the new releases, but at the end of the day its what us consumers think that really matters. Remember Beadmaker ? In reality it turns out that it is just a good gloss enhancer that doesn't last that long and doesn't bead that well either in my opinion.


Another video came out from Jimbo detailing, it's a Q and A session with Jimbo and Pan, with all the other youtubers in the audience going over the products. Pan and Jimbo were given more access to the products before hand and got to do some real testing at Turtle Wax. They state quite a few times that the youtube channels are not on the company dime, and if the product doesn't stand up, they're not going to hold back.


----------



## cheekymonkey

Brian1612 said:


> As good as carchem 1900:1 is... the dilution ratio is nonsense. I find 10-15ml is needed for roughly 10L of water and that's with soft water.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


if your using that much then you need to look at your Technic, and system. its a fantastic shampoo with great lubrication, at very low dilutions. your using way more than is needed,


----------



## WHIZZER

Hopefully we will be getting some products soon to try and see how they perform


----------



## Deje

Turtel wax runs an extensive marketing now with the help of famous youtube influences, I do not doubt that the products are ok at very favorable prices out to the consumer.
With this in mind, I do not understand why Turtel Wax is renaming the products in different parts of the world, seems counterproductive and just creates confusion.

It can apparently be called Sealant Carnauba Spray Wax as well ,Just to confirm the confusion !


----------



## Fatboy40

Sheep said:


> They state quite a few times that the youtube channels are not on the company dime, and if the product doesn't stand up, they're not going to hold back.


I assuming no one here is foolish enough to believe that?

They may not be being directly paid money but Turtle Wax will have absolutely made their time spent on this worthwhile in some way.

It's no different than the Instragram "Influencers" (God I hate them all) and what they get from plugging all these slimming products.


----------



## Fatboy40

Deje said:


> I do not understand why Turtel Wax is renaming the products in different parts of the world, seems counterproductive and just creates confusion.


It's marketing them with the right branding to attract the local target audience, not confusing at all (all multinational companies do it, look at washing tabs etc. and their branding).

Turtle Wax products are not aimed at people here, they're volume high street retail products, where their brand name + price + how attractive their packaging looks is what sells them.

Put plain packaged Car Chem products on a shelf next to them and Car Chem would get zero sales.


----------



## WHIZZER

Fatboy40 said:


> It's marketing them with the right branding to attract the local target audience, not confusing at all (all multinational companies do it, look at washing tabs etc. and their branding).
> 
> Turtle Wax products are not aimed at people here, they're volume high street retail products, where their brand name + price + how attractive their packaging looks is what sells them.
> 
> Put plain packaged Car Chem products on a shelf next to them and Car Chem would get zero sales.


I think Turtle wax are aiming here now though as the new products are aimed at the enthusiast detailers


----------



## Deje

Fatboy40 said:


> It's marketing them with the right branding to attract the local target audience, not confusing at all (all multinational companies do it, look at washing tabs etc. and their branding).
> 
> Turtle Wax products are not aimed at people here, they're volume high street retail products, where their brand name + price + how attractive their packaging looks is what sells them.
> 
> Put plain packaged Car Chem products on a shelf next to them and Car Chem would get zero sales.


Today with Youtuber influences people around the world see and hear about products, when they then want to buy the product locally they do not find it because the name has changed, for example turtle wax ice seal n shine is called Turtle Wax Hybrid Sealant Hydrophobic Wax here I live, I don't know how many people I've had to explain this to. so no, it's just counterproductive.


----------



## Deje

Yes, people must stop being so naive.
turtel wax flies Yuotubers from different parts of the world to a totally outstanding resort below the mountains of Arizona, they are housed in luxury hotels with all inclusive, and that turtle wax does this without any intention and that youtubers are not affected is just naive.
If it was government employees who went on such trip they would have been accused of taking a bribe.

Watch Pan the organizer video from the trip and see how excited he is, to think that he is not affected by this when he then makes reviews of the products is just, naive


----------



## RS3

Deje said:


> Yes, people must stop being so naive.
> turtel wax flies Yuotubers from different parts of the world to a totally outstanding resort below the mountains of Arizona, they are housed in luxury hotels with all inclusive, and that turtle wax does this without any intention and that youtubers are not affected is just naive.
> If it was government employees who went on such trip they would have been accused of taking a bribe.
> 
> Watch Pan the organizer video from the trip and see how excited he is, to think that he is not affected by this when he then makes reviews of the products is just, naive


Pan does get dizzy doesn't he:lol:
Yes, this is influential marketing but doesn't mean the detailers will be plugging such products. Will be interesting to see all of their reviews of the new products - if they all say its all amazing, we know that such a trip is successful for Turtlewax but I do trust Jon to do the right thing. It looked to me like he was staying relatively calm whilst Pan was wetting himself with excitement. Looking forward to his reviews.


----------



## Dave50

As a business plan, I think Trurtlewax have left the rest of the field (major players) behind, embracing social media in such a manor.

Will their products stack up? Only time will tell....

From a personal point of view, knowing slightly more than the average car owner, and with time/weather constraints and not being able to do my detailing indoors these products look promising.

Dave


----------



## Brian1612

cheekymonkey said:


> if your using that much then you need to look at your Technic, and system. its a fantastic shampoo with great lubrication, at very low dilutions. your using way more than is needed,


Not disputing it's not a good shampoo, just not at the advised dilution. 5ml in 10L of shampoo just doesn't produce slickness or good suds transfer imo. Due to this I'm not comfortable using it at the advised ratio and find for performance I am much happier with it ends up 750-1000:1.

Ps. Not sure what technique has to do with it... will my hand motion somehow how improve slickness and suds?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## Del-GTi

WHIZZER said:


> I think Turtle wax are aiming here now though as the new products are aimed at the enthusiast detailers


Agreed. They wouldn't be using the YouTube detailers otherwise.


----------



## Sheep

Fatboy40 said:


> I assuming no one here is foolish enough to believe that?
> 
> They may not be being directly paid money but Turtle Wax will have absolutely made their time spent on this worthwhile in some way.
> 
> It's no different than the Instragram "Influencers" (God I hate them all) and what they get from plugging all these slimming products.


Easy tiger, not everything is a conspiracy. Turtle wax didn't know these guys were going to start testing their products like they did, and the guys running the channels were buying them with their own money at first. Considering all the channels testing the product and getting the same results, I don't really see the issue.

Moreover, Turtlewax was the FIRST company to invite these guys out to showcase new products, instead of retail stores (if they even do that), which helps their brand even more with more coverage and reviews guaranteed. You could go full tin-foil hat and say that this is nothing but a marketing ploy, but enough people have used and proven the results of the products, that it's not really detrimental to any party, be it Turtlewax or the end user. It's marketing, but it's successful marketing, with no real downside. Also Turtlewax is still a family owned business, so even though they're a large company, I would still put them pretty high up the credibility list.


----------



## Sheep

Deje said:


> Yes, people must stop being so naive.
> turtel wax flies Yuotubers from different parts of the world to a totally outstanding resort below the mountains of Arizona, they are housed in luxury hotels with all inclusive, and that turtle wax does this without any intention and that youtubers are not affected is just naive.
> If it was government employees who went on such trip they would have been accused of taking a bribe.
> 
> Watch Pan the organizer video from the trip and see how excited he is, to think that he is not affected by this when he then makes reviews of the products is just, naive


Pan is always pretty excited in his videos, and I think that he's actually just humbled and excited to be selected. If turtlewax saw a video you made and decided you were important enough to be flow to a special facility with a bunch of other greats in your profession, you would feel pretty happy/excited/humbled too. I find this to be no different.


----------



## cheekymonkey

Brian1612 said:


> Not disputing it's not a good shampoo, just not at the advised dilution. 5ml in 10L of shampoo just doesn't produce slickness or good suds transfer imo. Due to this I'm not comfortable using it at the advised ratio and find for performance I am much happier with it ends up 750-1000:1.
> 
> Ps. Not sure what technique has to do with it... will my hand motion somehow how improve slickness and suds?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


suds have no use what so ever. suds are just a visual. Although to be far you do seem to use more than necessary with maintenance products. 
if you dont know there is good washing techniques an bad washing techniques then you probably need to look into it more including hand motion.:thumb:


----------



## Loach

It was an awesome event that Turtle Wax hosted, I had a total blast and was thrilled to be invited and meet the other guys from Youtube. This was definitely a smart move as well, Turtle Wax is the first company to come up with the crazy idea to grab some detailing reviewers and testers from Youtube and bring them together to see firsthand what they're offering for the new season. They get to generate buzz and some hype prior to the official release to showcase the event, as well as immediately capitalize on the exposure once everyone begins testing them and producing videos of the products. It's a common sense approach to marketing that benefits everyone involved so long as the products perform, this tells me that Turtle Wax has a lot of confidence for the new lineup. One of the things that I will note, is this was a no strings attached invite, there is no obligation to produce any videos in exchange for being invited.

This Hybrid Solutions line is supposed to quench the thirst of the enthusiast while keeping it super easy for regular consumers to work with at affordable prices. This is why they had us working outside in Arizona in 32°C temps working in direct sunlight during all the demos. So I'm looking forward to really putting these to the test and showing the viewers how they perform. I've always been a fan of a lot of the Ice lineup, and even many of Turtle Wax's green bottle lineup that was released or updated within the last few years (especially the sprays). I would say if the new Ceramic Spray Coating can outperform Seal N Shine (Sealant Hydrophobic Wax) in terms of durability, better hydrophobics, and better wipeability, then I'm going to love it. And it does look a bit more hydrophobic based on our testing during the event. 

I'm really excited to see how Meguiar's and Mothers responds to Turtle Wax here. Seal N Shine was a good answer to Hybrid Ceramic Wax and CMX Spray Coating, so I'm expecting some big offerings to be brought to the table from everyone else!


----------



## Deje

Sheep said:


> Pan is always pretty excited in his videos, and I think that he's actually just humbled and excited to be selected. If turtlewax saw a video you made and decided you were important enough to be flow to a special facility with a bunch of other greats in your profession, you would feel pretty happy/excited/humbled too. I find this to be no different.


Have you seen the whole video?

Now Pan's channel is more of a variation on the old TV shop, so he takes a bribe without hesitation I understand.
And you can't go on such a trip if you want to be independent, no company pays hundreds of pounds. maybe as much as £ 1000 without wanting to have anything back.
As stated earlier, this is the reason why government employees are prohibited from receiving such gifts.


----------



## Brian1612

cheekymonkey said:


> suds have no use what so ever. suds are just a visual. Although to be far you do seem to use more than necessary with maintenance products.
> 
> if you dont know there is good washing techniques an bad washing techniques then you probably need to look into it more including hand motion.:thumb:


Now I see this a lot but I've never actually seen any factual evidence to prove it, have you? In fact from my own experience, I've always founds a shampoo that suds up on the car panel well, will be slicker under the wash pad than one that doesn't. Could just be coincidence but it happens too often to be the case imo, so I don't actually believe the statement that suds don't mean or do anything. I think they somehow result in a slicker wash or at least highlight that the shampoo is extremely slick, slicker than no suds on the panel, that's for sure. Whether that is down to the foam or not I don't know.

I am aware what good wash technique is but that isn't what we are discussing. I mentioned dilutions and how a shampoo isn't good enough for my liking at the stated dilution rate. Not sure how wash technique comes into the equation when measuring a product out accurately in a bucket of water?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## Brian1612

Just as a separate point.... Loach & Sheep. Please review the full range, the more reviews the better and especially from guys like yourselves. 

Don't think deje speaks for us all on this.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## Fatboy40

Loach said:


> ... this was a no strings attached *invite*...


I know I'm being disingenuous by asking but all you had was an "invite"?

Did you have to pay for the flights, accommodation and food yourself? Did they provide their guests with any entertainment outside of the various sessions?


----------



## Sheep

Fatboy40 said:


> I know I'm being disingenuous by asking but all you had was an "invite"?
> 
> Did you have to pay for the flights, accommodation and food yourself? Did they provide their guests with any entertainment outside of the various sessions?


It's well documented that the whole trip was paid for, but when they say "no strings" it means they don't have to give a favorable review or review it at all. Seeing as most of the reviews are side by sides with competitors, and then the subsequent barrage of chemicals, it's not like they can "fake" the positiv e result. Heck, Apex detail shows you the whole prep and application in 1 take.


----------



## Sheep

Deje said:


> Well don´t do a review then, we will manage with the other 40 reviews.


Don't worry, I'll review it once it comes out, you can trust my findings as I was not sent to the event.


----------



## Sheep

Brian1612 said:


> Just as a separate point.... Loach & Sheep. Please review the full range, the more reviews the better and especially from guys like yourselves.
> 
> Don't think deje speaks for us all on this.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


I was planning on it, just not sure when Canada is going to get stock in the shelves.


----------



## RS3

Fatboy40 said:


> I know I'm being disingenuous by asking but all you had was an "invite"?
> 
> Did you have to pay for the flights, accommodation and food yourself? Did they provide their guests with any entertainment outside of the various sessions?


Yes, Good Question Fatboy

Would love to visit the area TBH. I have a friend who lives 3 months of the year in Tucson and he's invited me next March April. He's got 2 Harleys as well, just need to get past the missus (she actually knows as she was present when invited) but just gave me the look!. He told me they can't get enough detailers down there (Tucson is like a giant airfield with thousands and thousands of privatly owned planes) to Polish planes as they now know that it can save up to 1.5% on fuel costs. Good cash money in Arizona apparently. The problem is they have no water and car washing with hoses et al is seriously frowned upon.


----------



## AndyKay

Is there anywhere in the UK where I can pre-order?


----------



## Sheep

AndyKay said:


> Is there anywhere in the UK where I can pre-order?


World Wide release is December 1st, US release is November 1st.


----------



## WHIZZER

AndyKay said:


> Is there anywhere in the UK where I can pre-order?


maybe turtle wax themselves but its not due for release until Dec 1st - ill get back in touch to see if there is any more info


----------



## Sheep

WHIZZER said:


> maybe turtle wax themselves but its not due for release until Dec 1st - ill get back in touch to see if there is any more info


Looking for any Canadian members for the review team? 

Thanks for looking into this!


----------



## sm81

Those bottles are ugly:lol:


----------



## Loach

Fatboy40 said:


> I know I'm being disingenuous by asking but all you had was an "invite"?
> 
> Did you have to pay for the flights, accommodation and food yourself? Did they provide their guests with any entertainment outside of the various sessions?





Sheep said:


> It's well documented that the whole trip was paid for, but when they say "no strings" it means they don't have to give a favorable review or review it at all. Seeing as most of the reviews are side by sides with competitors, and then the subsequent barrage of chemicals, it's not like they can "fake" the positiv e result. Heck, Apex detail shows you the whole prep and application in 1 take.


That's right, Turtle Wax foot the bill for the entire trip. And prior to accepting I did think about the potential bias that I would be imposing on the tests as a result. How do I remain impartial or unbiased if I'm flown out to an event in beautiful Scottsdale Arizona on the company's dime to get a first look at a new lineup?

However, the alternative for me was to continue to be a hermit of an industry that I have a lot of passion for. I want to meet and build relationships with the people whose products I've purchased and worked with for over a decade, and pick their brains for what they're working on and give them direct feedback. I'd love to do this with the people of many of the products I've tested over the years, but this idea of trying to remain 100% unbiased and impartial put me in a bubble that doesn't make sense anymore.

Sheep is right though, this doesn't change how my tests are performed, it's still the same prep work, same wipe on wipe off observations, same side by side comparisons with competing products in the same category, etc. In terms of just hydrophobicity (which I've always had a strict bias in favour of), the results are going to speak for themselves. So I'm willing to accept a few detractors with claims of bias in my tests for experiencing an event like the one Turtle Wax set up, in exchange for better immersing myself in the industry and getting more access to the minds of the teams actually formulating what I test.


----------



## Brian1612

Anyone complaining is just jealous they aren't important enough within the detailing scene to be invited imo. If it was me I'd have been at the airport at the first sniff of an invitation 

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## cheekymonkey

Brian1612 said:


> Now I see this a lot but I've never actually seen any factual evidence to prove it, have you? In fact from my own experience, I've always founds a shampoo that suds up on the car panel well, will be slicker under the wash pad than one that doesn't. Could just be coincidence but it happens too often to be the case imo, so I don't actually believe the statement that suds don't mean or do anything. I think they somehow result in a slicker wash or at least highlight that the shampoo is extremely slick, slicker than no suds on the panel, that's for sure. Whether that is down to the foam or not I don't know.
> 
> I am aware what good wash technique is but that isn't what we are discussing. I mentioned dilutions and how a shampoo isn't good enough for my liking at the stated dilution rate. Not sure how wash technique comes into the equation when measuring a product out accurately in a bucket of water?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


its a fact been proven many times in the past,whether people want to believe it , suds have nothing to do with slickness, that comes from the ingredients. 
Of cause technique has to do with how a product performs, if your technique is poor than the product will not work as should, whether thats polishing or washing or an lsp. People always blame the product yet vast majority its the user at fault . There is a saying technique trumps product, how true that is, Its not putting a shampoo in a bucket that matters, its the way its used after than counts, putting it in a bucket doesnt have anything to do with technigue really.


----------



## muzzer

This thread is starting to deviate from the original topic and descending into petty point scoring arguments.
Disagree by all means but keep it on topic please and away from childish finger pointing.


----------



## Brian1612

cheekymonkey said:


> its a fact been proven many times in the past,whether people want to believe it , suds have nothing to do with slickness, that comes from the ingredients.
> 
> Of cause technique has to do with how a product performs, if your technique is poor than the product will not work as should, whether thats polishing or washing or an lsp. People always blame the product yet vast majority its the user at fault . There is a saying technique trumps product, how true that is, Its not putting a shampoo in a bucket that matters, its the way its used after than counts, putting it in a bucket doesnt have anything to do with technigue really.


Could you send me a link to some of these instances when it's been proven as fact please?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## cheekymonkey

Brian1612 said:


> Could you send me a link to some of these instances when it's been proven as fact please?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


check on here it has been discussed :thumb:


----------



## Brian1612

cheekymonkey said:


> check on here it has been discussed :thumb:


So no factual evidence to support what you've just stated then? I'm all for being convinced but I need some proof, not just a broad statement that it's been proven countless times in the past. It doesn't tie in with what I experience with shampoos is all I am saying that's why I have the opinion I do.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## Ste T

Just seem Amazon (States) have started there listing still not able to order or pre order just yet.

https://www.amazon.com/Turtle-Wax-5...2R/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=


----------



## chris chappell

If it's got American labelling as someone has said can you imagine if it was 'real cool' , 'badass' , or 'son of a *****'?? 
It would then be without doubt the finest polish 'in the world'!!😂😂


----------



## Sheep

chris chappell said:


> If it's got American labelling as someone has said can you imagine if it was 'real cool' , 'badass' , or 'son of a *****'??
> It would then be without doubt the finest polish 'in the world'!!😂😂


Except "...In the World" is a Jeremy Clarkson saying, which would make it British.


----------



## Sheep

Pan just put up his review video for Ceramic Spray Coating. It's not a full out test as it's a sponsored video, but he does show a side by side with SnS/SHW. From what I see the beading is definitely increase a level, looking more like BSD, and the gloss you see in the video is really good. Going to have to wait a bit longer for a chemical dump test but overall it looks really promising. He also states the pricing is 14-16 US per product, which is very reasonable price point.


----------



## cheekymonkey

Brian1612 said:


> So no factual evidence to support what you've just stated then? I'm all for being convinced but I need some proof, not just a broad statement that it's been proven countless times in the past. It doesn't tie in with what I experience with shampoos is all I am saying that's why I have the opinion I do.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


plenty of factual evidence, i got all the evidence when i worked in the industry. more reliable, more scientific than some guy on you tube. what you believe or what your opinion is doesn't change fact.


----------



## GleemSpray

Brian1612 said:


> Now I see this a lot but I've never actually seen any factual evidence to prove it, have you? In fact from my own experience, I've always founds a shampoo that suds up on the car panel well, will be slicker under the wash pad than one that doesn't. Could just be coincidence but it happens too often to be the case imo, so I don't actually believe the statement that suds don't mean or do anything. I think they somehow result in a slicker wash or at least highlight that the shampoo is extremely slick, slicker than no suds on the panel, that's for sure. Whether that is down to the foam or not I don't know.
> 
> I am aware what good wash technique is but that isn't what we are discussing. I mentioned dilutions and how a shampoo isn't good enough for my liking at the stated dilution rate. Not sure how wash technique comes into the equation when measuring a product out accurately in a bucket of water?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


AutoGlym Shampoo and Conditioner is (by design) very flat and sud-less, yet it glides around the car surface surprisingly well.

You expect it to feel like using plain water, but its not at all.

Pubs use foam-free washing up liquid for their glass cleaning machines and it cleans and shines just like regular fairy liquid does.

I am convinced that lots of suds play tricks with out eyes and our heads - they dont (imo) make a jot of difference.


----------



## muzzer

I'll say it again, as it obviously didn't get through the first time.

This thread is deviating into pointless arguments and petty point scoring. Disagree by all means but keep to the original topic please.


----------



## roscopervis

NorthantsPete said:


> That's the thing - durability IS the most important factor of spray on waxes and detailers as it is their one major weakness.
> 
> THAT is what they are working on. So far, noone has created an ultimate slick feeling, but 3 month durable product. Sonax goes on ok but you dont buff it so people dont feel its slippery liek butter.
> 
> I havent tried Carplan No.1 however which boasts 12 months...


CarPlan isn't a Wax as you dry product. If you wax when it's dry, 1 coat will do 5 months, 2 will do 6.

Seal N Shine will also last much longer if applied like a traditional sealant (because that's what it is) - It will easily crack 3 months, 6 months is entirely do-able I think, but I haven't had the product that long to find that out yet.


----------



## Sheep

Pan the Organizer and Jimbo both uploaded test videos of Ceramic Spray Coating against SnS. Pan didn't let it cure at all before giving it a torture test (needs 24 hours, and then a second coat plus another 24 hours for it's best durability). Jimbo let it cure for 24 hours, but didn't add the second coat for it's best durability (to either product).

To be honest, both videos seemed a bit rushed, they should have given both products the best prep. I guess I'll have to do it myself whenever I get my hands on it.


----------



## RS3

Sheep said:


> Pan the Organizer and Jimbo both uploaded test videos of Ceramic Spray Coating against SnS. Pan didn't let it cure at all before giving it a torture test (needs 24 hours, and then a second coat plus another 24 hours for it's best durability). Jimbo let it cure for 24 hours, but didn't add the second coat for it's best durability (to either product).
> 
> To be honest, both videos seemed a bit rushed, they should have given both products the best prep. I guess I'll have to do it myself whenever I get my hands on it.


I saw these and they didn't look good for the new product did they. They should have applied it correctly as someone seeing half of those videos will immediately go for the old stuff as will I. The fact that the new one needs 24hrs cure is a put off for me anyway.


----------



## Fatboy40

RS3 said:


> The fact that the new one needs 24hrs cure is a put off for me anyway.


Well, SiO2 has to be cured in some way or other, either by air or heat/light, and at higher concentrations of solids this will only take longer.

If their new "Ceramic Spray Coating" now has a higher SiO2 solids content, either due to the price of it coming down so they can include more or this new product will have a higher price, then a longer cure time is unavoidable (which is why SiO2 "toppers" exist for us mere mortals at home or the high end products are heat and UV treated under cover).


----------



## steveo3002

RS3 said:


> I saw these and they didn't look good for the new product did they. They should have applied it correctly as someone seeing half of those videos will immediately go for the old stuff as will I. The fact that the new one needs 24hrs cure is a put off for me anyway.


silly test if you ask me , bottle says cure 24hrs before washing so he see's if it strips immediately, not a fair test in anyway - pointless

not really one for detailing videos /reviews but doesnt the ooh i sprayed with strong wheel cleaner soon get boring , i kinda get it that great it stands up to nasty chems , but who in the hell sprays anything strong on the bodywork, nothing like real world use


----------



## Brian1612

Some of the responses here are filling me with hope for the detailing scene. Guess it's not just me that sees what Pan and Jimbo are doing as a complete waste of time. 

Doesn't represent real world testing nor do they follow recommendations etc. Almost intentionally make products look bad for one reason or another, it's a wonder neither have ever landed themselves in trouble with companies with the misrepresentation of products etc.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## Deje

steveo3002 said:


> silly test if you ask me , bottle says cure 24hrs before washing so he see's if it strips immediately, not a fair test in anyway - pointless
> 
> not really one for detailing videos /reviews but doesnt the ooh i sprayed with strong wheel cleaner soon get boring , i kinda get it that great it stands up to nasty chems , but who in the hell sprays anything strong on the bodywork, nothing like real world use


Jimbo , let both seal n shine and ceramic coating were fully cured for over 48 hours.


----------



## Deje

There is too little sio2 in these products to be able to get sio2 benefits.
Unless the microfiber cloth becomes chrunchy after use, it is too little sio2 in my opinion in the product


----------



## Sheep

Deje said:


> Jimbo , let both seal n shine and ceramic coating were fully cured for over 48 hours.
> TURTLE WAX CERAMIC SPRAY COATING VS TURTLE WAX SEAL N SHINE - FULL 48 HOUR CURE TIME - YouTube


He gave it 48 hours, but didn't give Ceramic it's second application which turtle wax states increases durability up to 12 months from 6 months (their words). The logical test would be to give both products the same double application and cure time.


----------



## Andy from Sandy

Deje said:


> There is too little sio2 in these products to be able to get sio2 benefits.
> Unless the microfiber cloth becomes chrunchy after use, it is too little sio2 in my opinion in the product


It is going to be very interesting if cloths do get clogged a bit and start scratching peoples cars by the unaware.

Is there any mention in the directions of use?


----------



## Brian1612

Andy from Sandy said:


> It is going to be very interesting if cloths do get clogged a bit and start scratching peoples cars by the unaware.
> 
> Is there any mention in the directions of use?


Apparently don't clog towels as long as they are washed right away. Much like Cancoat etc.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## RS3

Brian1612 said:


> Some of the responses here are filling me with hope for the detailing scene. Guess it's not just me that sees what Pan and Jimbo are doing as a complete waste of time.
> 
> Doesn't represent real world testing nor do they follow recommendations etc. Almost intentionally make products look bad for one reason or another, it's a wonder neither have ever landed themselves in trouble with companies with the misrepresentation of products etc.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


I would complety agree about most detailing gurus on Youtube including Pan but I actually think Jimbo does great comparisons most of the time and does make an effort to compare chalk with chalk. He also uses the old bonnet tests which I think is far better way to compare products than using 2 cars or the same car at different times.

I have followed Jimbo's recomendations many times and done my own comparisons to validate his findings. I think he's usually spot on TBH and would thank him for introducing me to brands like Bilt Hamber, Koch Chemie and Tac systems.


----------



## WHIZZER

Hopefully we will be getting some products to try very soon ----


----------



## Sheep

Andy from Sandy said:


> It is going to be very interesting if cloths do get clogged a bit and start scratching peoples cars by the unaware.
> 
> Is there any mention in the directions of use?


They said it won't clog towels, which is nice. Wonder about trigger heads though.


----------



## Sheep

RS3 said:


> I would complety agree about most detailing gurus on Youtube including Pan but I actually think Jimbo does great comparisons most of the time and does make an effort to compare chalk with chalk. He also uses the old bonnet tests which I think is far better way to compare products than using 2 cars or the same car at different times.
> 
> I have followed Jimbo's recomendations many times and done my own comparisons to validate his findings. I think he's usually spot on TBH and would thank him for introducing me to brands like Bilt Hamber, Koch Chemie and Tac systems.


Jimbo gets a B+ from me. His videos are well made and he makes sure he's clear in what he's doing, but he also doesn't have a fully rounded understanding of all aspects of detailing like the people on these boards do (initially criticized eraser for not being able to take off a wax etc). He misses spots wiping product in or rinsing it off, small things like that which kinda spoil the show for me some times. Not doing the second application to improve the durability on Ceramic Spray Coating was a pretty glaring omission on his part, especially after going through the whole presentation that he did with turtle wax.

Overall they're good and provide information, but some times they need to slow it down and really understand the product before posting videos (pans video was probably the first car he put it on, and didn't clay or polish it - not exactly a great example for testing).

Rest assured, I will be testing a bunch of spray on products shortly, and experimenting with application as well.


----------



## GSB1

I am looking forward to the UK release of the TW Ceramic range.

Do we think the Wet Wax will layer on top of the Ceramic Spray (after curing)? I haven't been able to find this info.

TW have already stated for chemical resistance alone Seal and Shine is the stronger product.


----------



## minimadmotorman

I see all the products are on the the Turtle Wax Store now albeit they are showing as sold out. £18 each.

Seems fairly reasonable to me, I expect to see them cheaper like SnS and DnS soon enough.


----------



## Sheep

Turtle Wax Released their own test video showcasing the new Hybrid Ceramic Spray Coating against Seal n Shine, with the proper 24 hour cure, followed by the second application and subsequent 24 hour cure that you need to do to get the best durability out of this product. I guess I'll be replacing Seal n Shine after I run out of mine!


----------



## Deje

With a cure time of 48 hours + 2 layers, it is no meaning to compare these 2 products, many people do not have the ability to allow it to cure for 48 hours or energy to add 2 layers.

With so much hassles why not put on a regular honest coating!?


----------



## Sheep

Deje said:


> With a cure time of 48 hours + 2 layers, it is no meaning to compare these 2 products, many people do not have the ability to allow it to cure for 48 hours or energy to add 2 layers.
> 
> With so much hassles why not put on a regular honest coating!?


1.) it's $14 dollars for what, 15-20 applications?
2.) it's easy to use and not sensitive to sunlight or ambient temperature.
3.) it can get wet in between coatings so it doesn't have to stay inside in a temperature controlled garage.
4.) you don't have to go through crazy prep for it to work well.
5.) you can buy it almost anywhere.

Yeah, what were they thinking?


----------



## Deje

Sheep said:


> 1.) it's $14 dollars for what, 15-20 applications?
> 2.) it's easy to use and not sensitive to sunlight or ambient temperature.
> 3.) it can get wet in between coatings so it doesn't have to stay inside in a temperature controlled garage.
> 4.) you don't have to go through crazy prep for it to work well.
> 5.) you can buy it almost anywhere.
> 
> Yeah, what were they thinking?


It may get wet but not dirty, having the car outside doesn't work.
The price is $ 30 here I live!
The prep is the same if you want a professional result.
Trade is global. just order online.
Most coating requires only 24 hours of cure and 1 layer for 2 years durability

Yeah, what were they thinking?


----------



## Sheep

Deje said:


> It may get wet but not dirty, having the car outside doesn't work.
> The price is $ 30 here I live!
> The prep is the same if you want a professional result.
> Trade is global. just order online.
> Most coating requires only 24 hours of cure and 1 layer for 2 years durability
> 
> Yeah, what were they thinking?


It can get dirty, you just need to wait the 24 hours before you wash the first coating. Gyeon Synco requires 3 or 4 layers applied to hit it's proper durability, and if you read the instructions for most coatings, whey want more than one coat, and a top up using another product to prevent water spots in the first 12 hours. Applying 1 coat, putting it outside, and then waiting a day before the next coat is a lot less work. It's also faster to apply, so that 24 hours will come about sooner, with less chances of misapplication or dealing with flash times.

Edit: Also this can be applied over their Polish and wax, so it doesn't need a perfect base like a normal coating.


----------



## WHIZZER

https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=417114


----------



## David Proctor

I have spoken to Turtle Wax today and have refused to review / test the products I have received as they are not CLP compliant as this goes against all my morals about being fair and honest.

I have associations with many manufacturers who pride themselves on compliance. There is one rule and it applies to all.


----------



## Peter77

David Proctor said:


> I have spoken to Turtle Wax today and have refused to review / test the products I have received as they are not CLP compliant as this goes against all my morals about being fair and honest.
> 
> I have associations with many manufacturers who pride themselves on compliance. There is one rule and it applies to all.


Pass them over to me, I will happily try them out 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Andyblue

David Proctor said:


> I have spoken to Turtle Wax today and have refused to review / test the products I have received as they are not CLP compliant as this goes against all my morals about being fair and honest.
> 
> I have associations with many manufacturers who pride themselves on compliance. There is one rule and it applies to all.


CLP Compliant ?


----------



## JonnyW

Andyblue said:


> CLP Compliant ?


I think;

"The CLP Regulation ("Classification, Labelling and Packaging") is a European Union regulation that standardises the warnings that have to be on products."


----------



## Andyblue

JonnyW said:


> I think;
> 
> "The CLP Regulation ("Classification, Labelling and Packaging") is a European Union regulation that standardises the warnings that have to be on products."


Cheers mate :thumb:


----------



## David Proctor

Peter77 said:


> Pass them over to me, I will happily try them out
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


collect from Southampton and your welcome


----------



## Sheep

David Proctor said:


> collect from Southampton and your welcome


OOOO! Me too!


----------



## Peter77

David Proctor said:


> collect from Southampton and your welcome


Bit far for me buddy, thanks though

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Andyblue

David Proctor said:


> collect from Southampton and your welcome


I'll happily pay postage and take them off your hands :thumb:


----------



## Alan W

Turtle Wax Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Spray Coating reviewed by Brian at Apex Detail.

The gloss added by this product looks superb from the values obtained! :thumb:


----------



## Sheep

Alan W said:


> Turtle Wax Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Spray Coating reviewed by Brian at Apex Detail.
> 
> The gloss added by this product looks superb from the values obtained! :thumb:
> 
> Turtle Wax Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Spray Coating! Do I Like It Better Than Seal N Shine? - YouTube


He still didn't apply it correctly, not waiting the 24 hours before the second coat. Man these guys really are impatient.


----------



## Alan W

Sheep said:


> He still didn't apply it correctly, not waiting the 24 hours before the second coat. Man these guys really are impatient.


I noted that and it was mentioned in the comments.

However, waiting the 24 hours between coats would probably not have any detrimental effect on the performance and could actually improve on the already good performance and, more so, the durability.

Alan W


----------



## Sheep

Alan W said:


> I noted that and it was mentioned in the comments.
> 
> However, waiting the 24 hours between coats would probably not have any detrimental effect on the performance and could actually improve on the already good performance and, more so, the durability.
> 
> Alan W


It does, Turtle Wax themselves posted a video showing SnS and the new Hyrbid coating both receiving the second coat and subsequent 24 hour cure going through a chemical test. The new coating proved to be quite a bit more durable, and didn't seem to be any harder to apply.


----------



## steveo3002

boggling the manufacturers go to the bother of testing and printing instructions/posting info yet so many videos getting the basics wrong


----------



## BobbyNelson

The problem with the 24 hour curing, as I'm sure has been said before, is that not everyone has the ability to do so, and may not be able to apply a second coat the next day (as well as waiting another 24 hours for that to cure). Those of us with kids, no garage etc. etc.

Hence the videos showing those of us that may want to use it a more "real-world" version of events - i.e. a quick application where possible - are really helpful. Especially if someone goes to the trouble of doing a side by side against other sprays (BSD, SnS, DnS, Megs HCW, Bead maker etc).

Sent from my moto g(7) plus using Tapatalk


----------



## steveo3002

as said elsewhere i think the car can be put into use , just dont wash it

far from real world , who repeatedly sprays the strongest cleaners over thier paintwork


----------



## BobbyNelson

steveo3002 said:


> as said elsewhere i think the car can be put into use , just dont wash it
> 
> far from real world , who repeatedly sprays the strongest cleaners over thier paintwork


How does that work in reality though - you can get the car dirty (ish, only talking about 24 hours here, so how dirty can it really get?) but you can't wash it? What about rain - do you need to be out there with a big umbrella until the shower passes, just in case you're under the cure time? That also doesn't get around the fact you may not have to go out and re-apply the next day.

Appreciate I'm coming at this from a completely different angle, and probably picking holes for the sake of it, but it just seems strange that a mass-market product such as this has such an obvious flaw that will stop it being adopted mass-market.

If I'm in Halfords, no nothing about any of these products and see that this one needs 24 hours and a second coat, I'm moving on. Which is a shame, as I'm sure this is a great product (as the videos have shown thus far).

Sent from my moto g(7) plus using Tapatalk


----------



## steveo3002

there was a video with one of their tech guys saying you can use the car /get it rained on but wait 24hrs till washing it 

i dont have any personal tech advice to give , but i guess being rained on is more gentle than being washed with detergent 

real world ..apply - drive away for more than 24hrs -rewash and apply more?


----------



## BobbyNelson

Yeah, I guess you're right in reality - it'll be application 1 on weekend 1, wash and application 2 on weekend 2. Would be interested to see how that performs vs the stated (and assumed optimal) application process. And then, again, vs other spray sealants / drying aids.

As with everything, the more knowledge we have, the better informed we are and the better choices we make. Hence, for me, the above videos are a great starting point.

Sent from my moto g(7) plus using Tapatalk


----------



## Alan W

Guys, it is up to the individual to follow instructions, or not, as is there prerogative and suffer any consequences that result from not following them. Some people do not have the luxury to apply as directed but still want to use the product. 

The point I was trying to make was the extreme gloss that this product appeared to have imparted to the paint. Adding 12 or 13 GU (Gloss Units) to paint is almost unheard of in my experience. Further the gloss still seemed to be mostly present after the protection had diminished. 

Many LSP’s actually knock back the gloss of polished paint and can mute flake, decrease clarity etc and it is rare for so much gloss to be added and retained.

Alan W


----------



## Sheep

BobbyNelson said:


> Yeah, I guess you're right in reality - it'll be application 1 on weekend 1, wash and application 2 on weekend 2. Would be interested to see how that performs vs the stated (and assumed optimal) application process. And then, again, vs other spray sealants / drying aids.
> 
> As with everything, the more knowledge we have, the better informed we are and the better choices we make. Hence, for me, the above videos are a great starting point.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(7) plus using Tapatalk


I guess I'm different when I plan my details, but if I don't have time to use a product the way it's intended, I'm not going to use it. SnS appears to be as durable if not more so, than 1 coat of the new coating, so I would just use that if I didn't have time for the full application. If I want to use a product that needs 2 coats 24 hours apart, I'm going to plan that detail so I can apply 2 coats, 24 hours apart.


----------

