# what gives the shiniest shine????????



## ppuaar (Sep 25, 2009)

not sure if that is gramtically correct lol 
was wondering which polish would give the best shine on VW black

any suggestions would be useful


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## MattDuffy88 (Apr 6, 2009)

Not quite sure what you mean, but having recently done my GF's black Polo I found Meguiars #83 followed by Menzerna PO85RD on a finishing pad gave a pretty much perfect finish.


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## Sam63 (Jan 9, 2010)

ppuaar said:


> not sure if that is gramtically correct lol
> was wondering which polish would give the best shine on VW black
> 
> any suggestions would be useful


Not relevant in some way as after applying any polish you will need to use a quality wax - best shine on VW Black - well Zymol Glasur is up there at the top IMO.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

depends what condition the paint is in and if your working by hand or machine. polishing is the key to a decent sine, no doubt there


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

Sam63 said:


> Not relevant in some way as after applying any polish you will need to use a quality wax - best shine on VW Black - well Zymol Glasur is up there at the top IMO.


waxes can alter the looks slightly but they're main job is to protect the finish gained by polishing


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## ppuaar (Sep 25, 2009)

i mean - i saw a golf gti on here while back and it looked as if it was grey but the car was black


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## mwbpsx (Jun 23, 2006)

ppuaar said:


> i mean - i saw a golf gti on here while back and it looked as if it was grey but the car was black


You'll see a lot of them, thats the point of posting :lol:

Mark


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## ppuaar (Sep 25, 2009)

mwbpsx said:


> You'll see a lot of them, thats the point of posting :lol:
> 
> Mark


serious answers please

and not funny


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

ppuaar said:


> serious answers please
> 
> and not funny


that's called a sense of humour 
your original question doesn't really help you much - what do you want the polish to do, remove swirls? working by hand or machine?..


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## mwbpsx (Jun 23, 2006)

ppuaar said:


> serious answers please
> 
> and not funny


Ok I polished a black car and it looked black when I finished, no point in posting really.

You saw a before and after, thats what we do, create an after from a before.

you should be showing what you have and what you hope to have, pictures will help us to help you

Mark


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## spitfire (Feb 10, 2007)

Sam63 said:


> Not relevant in some way as after applying any polish you will need to use a quality wax - best shine on VW Black - well Zymol Glasur is up there at the top IMO.


That's not strictly true. You could apply a cheap wax which will be every bit as good as Glasur (or better) or you could apply a sealant.

It's also true that to better understand the OPs question we need to know how he intends to apply said polish.


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## orienteer (Aug 17, 2009)

Anyhoo back to the point :doublesho

If your black paintwork is in fair condition try PoorBoys Blackhole glaze followed by a layer of wax, I use Collinite 476S but there is FinishKare 1000P or supernatural wax, or victoria concours, or glasur etc etc depending on budget!!

If there is excessive swirling the PB BH will clean and fill but as with all bodywork machining will get the optimum end result :buffer:

Good luck, Ian


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Hard work gives the best shine. There is no product holy grail, certainly not a wax or sealant  ... The key is in the prep work and to this end it is how well you work the polish to get the best shine. Machine polishing is the way forward in my opinion, learning to use products of your choice and optimising to get the best results you can - Menzerna's polishes would be a good place to start, by machine polisher.


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## ppuaar (Sep 25, 2009)

thanks guys 
been helpful well some has lol


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

ppuaar said:


> thanks guys
> been helpful well some has lol


weren't helping yourself with your original question...


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## ppuaar (Sep 25, 2009)

alright mate enough of that was funny the first time no one likes a smart a$$


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

ppuaar said:


> alright mate enough of that was funny the first time no one likes a smart a$$


lol, how exactly am I being a 'smart ***' as you put it? just trying to help people out but it's no good when they don't help themselves.


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## ppuaar (Sep 25, 2009)

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=163434&highlight=golf+gti

a few pics down the pic of the rear
in my eyes it looks greyish


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## Matt. (Aug 26, 2007)

Should of gone to specsavers. Looks black to me, that is all down to the prep of the car(machine polishing)


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

mattastra said:


> Should of gone to specsavers. Looks black to me, that is all down to the prep of the car(machine polishing)


looks like a mirror to me


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## Matt. (Aug 26, 2007)

:lol: its definatly not grey anyway


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## mwbpsx (Jun 23, 2006)

Do you mean the reflexion of the house

Mark


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## mwbpsx (Jun 23, 2006)

ppuaar said:


> alright mate enough of that was funny the first time no one likes a smart a$$


Pmsl a :newbie: with attitude :lol:

Mark


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## DBSK (Apr 22, 2008)

ppuaar said:


> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=163434&highlight=golf+gti
> 
> a few pics down the pic of the rear
> in my eyes it looks greyish


Dammmnnn. Your eyes SUCK!


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

hmm grey i dont think you could have found a better example of a cleaner black car if you tried the finish on that golf is outstanding.


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Badly?


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## RyanJon (Feb 18, 2009)

:lol:

I don't know if it could possibly be down to the quality of the camera??......but.....that appears in the pics to be 1 of the best finishes on a black car I have ever seen!!

Wish my black car looked like that:argie:

Ryan


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## tamandlee (Mar 14, 2010)

the grey to which he refers is the reflection of the sky I believe


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

PhillipM said:


> Badly?


Well, from a purely subjective scientific point of view - the graph tells me nothing, the x-axis has a mutliple varying scale and the y-axis no units at all. What is a "conventional polish"? ... We could go on


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## chunkytfg (Feb 1, 2009)

But thats surely the point Dave? By offering just enough information so the average layman 'thinks' he understands it they have shown their product to be better than 'conventional' ones however by not including any real explanation they have also not actually said anything of the sort!!!


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

chunkytfg said:


> But thats surely the point Dave? By offering just enough information so the average layman 'thinks' he understands it they have shown their product to be better than 'conventional' ones however by not including any real explanation they have also not actually said anything of the sort!!!


It is what one may perhaps call "clever" marketing... Brutally, there is no information at all to be gleaned from that chart, but yes as you say, one may "think" that this polish is better than "a conventional polish"... On a detailing forum however, where the OP is interested in the shiniest shine, the graph (in my humble opinion) is offering no real info for the reason you state.


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## mk4gtiturbo (Jun 16, 2009)

I have a VW Passat that is the same colour as the Golf, and I have previously had a Golf in the same colour. (You can't tell I like this colour?) I believe the colour is called Black Magic (although it has other names). It is a pearl paint and has flecks of different colours in it, blue and gold and red, and possibly others. It may be possible that these colours come out in the photos and make the colour look different. I know my car 'changes' colour. Also as it's such a good finish it's reflecting other colours from the surrounding area.

I really need to get out and make my car shine like that Golf, whatever colour it is!


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

tamandlee said:


> the grey to which he refers is the reflection of the sky I believe


If it's a metallic it could be flake pop, either way as soon as pics of the car were seen, it turned this into a pointless thread.


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## tamandlee (Mar 14, 2010)

Blazebro said:


> If it's a metallic it could be flake pop, either way as soon as pics of the car were seen, it turned this into a pointless thread.


not entirely pointless as we did get to see that Golf again and say, "ahhhhhhh thats sooo nice it hurts" lol :car:


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## Juras (May 5, 2010)

Dave KG said:


> It is what one may perhaps call "clever" marketing... Brutally, there is no information at all to be gleaned from that chart, but yes as you say, one may "think" that this polish is better than "a conventional polish"... On a detailing forum however, where the OP is interested in the shiniest shine, the graph (in my humble opinion) is offering no real info for the reason you state.


Dave, 
Returning back to graph (...disappeared somewhere...) and SONAX PremiumClass SaphirPower Polish: 
it contains highly effective polishing elements which break down into nano-fine particles during the polishing process. Thus, slight scratches are removed, weathered paint layers are worn away and dull colours are freshened up.
This will enable you to achieve a perfect paintwork finish and a very even, deep shine without streaks, haze and halograms (this polish can also remove already existing halograms). This polish technology, based on NanoSaphire, ensures that longer and more intensive polishing continually increases the gloss to a previously unattainable standard.

This does not work with conventional polishes: 
these reach their performance at a certain limit, and further working efforts produce no additional improvement. That's difference (shown also on the graph).

Somebody interested how the graph was made. below answer from SONAX laboratory:
we have conducted the test in the lab on our polishing robot. A polishing sponge was moved over test panels at 2kg load. After a certain amount of strokes we have measured gloss and haze.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

mysonax said:


> Dave,
> Returning back to graph (...disappeared somewhere...) and SONAX PremiumClass SaphirPower Polish:
> it contains highly effective polishing elements which break down into nano-fine particles during the polishing process. Thus, slight scratches are removed, weathered paint layers are worn away and dull colours are freshened up.
> This will enable you to achieve a perfect paintwork finish and a very even, deep shine without streaks, haze and halograms (this polish can also remove already existing halograms). This polish technology, based on NanoSaphire, ensures that longer and more intensive polishing continually increases the gloss to a previously unattainable standard.
> ...


any proof to back these claims up?...


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## Juras (May 5, 2010)

what you mean? what can be considered as 'any proof'?


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

pictures of it in use?..


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## CliveP (Feb 1, 2009)

ppuaar said:


> alright mate enough of that was funny  the first time no one likes a smart a$$


Hi mate I know you're having a laugh, but Kev is one of the most helpful and friendly chaps on here. People like him and DaveKG (among many others) help us newbies learn the things we do to produce great looking cars, be that grey, black, orange, yellow, tango or whatever colour ones!

Regards,
Clive.


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## Juras (May 5, 2010)

-Kev- said:


> pictures of it in use?..


ok, I will make some and post here later... or would you prefer to get sample and try it by yourself?


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

depends if it does what you say it does


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## tamandlee (Mar 14, 2010)

-Kev- said:


> depends if it does what you say it does


iiiiiiiiiitttttttttttsssssssssss teeeeeessssssssssssttttttttiiiiiiinnnnnnnnngggggggg tiiiiiiime!!!

The gauntlet has been thrown.........2 men enter, 1 man leaves.....this is the testing dome!!!


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## Juras (May 5, 2010)

-Kev- said:


> depends if it does what you say it does


Kev,
Perfect! I am sure it does and you will be satisfied. 
I will send SONAX PremiumClass SaphirPower Polish to you and will wait for your motivated testing results here... Please let me know your delivery address.
I saw swisswax carnauba on your table... would you like to test SONAX PremiumClass Carnauba Care too?


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

im not interested in having anything sent to me, you've not shown any of us this product in use to show it can do what the marketing says it can do. ive never used any swissvax products so i don't know where you got that idea from


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## Juras (May 5, 2010)

-Kev- said:


> im not interested in having anything sent to me, you've not shown any of us this product in use to show it can do what the marketing says it can do. ive never used any swissvax products so i don't know where you got that idea from


Kev,
the best prove that product works for myself is a result achieved by my own hands... it is a little bit strange your refuse... if pictures is enough for you I will post here when they will be made... if you did not believe what I say... to cheat you by posting pictures is easier than sending to you product for tests

Sorry for mistake, swisswax was on Dave KG's table (for his classes).


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## tamandlee (Mar 14, 2010)

where has the original op got to......maybe he will want to test this product??? lol


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

mysonax said:


> Dave,
> Returning back to graph (...disappeared somewhere...) and SONAX PremiumClass SaphirPower Polish:
> it contains highly effective polishing elements which break down into nano-fine particles during the polishing process. Thus, slight scratches are removed, weathered paint layers are worn away and dull colours are freshened up.
> This will enable you to achieve a perfect paintwork finish and a very even, deep shine without streaks, haze and halograms (this polish can also remove already existing halograms). This polish technology, based on NanoSaphire, ensures that longer and more intensive polishing continually increases the gloss to a previously unattainable standard.
> ...


Menzerna, to name but one polishing range, use abrasives as you describe - abrasives that break down over time and allow you once fully broken down to burnish and jewel the paint surface. This technology is not new, it is as old as the hills, and is now what one may term a "conventional polish". Unless many more factors than the rather crude experiment Sonax conducted were considered, then the test is pretty much meaningless - polishes respond differently to pressure, paint type, application speeds and application time. All need top be considered to assess a polish fully, a simple test without full consideration like this is simply misleading.

Meguiars new polishes use an abrasive technology which does not break down but you change the level of cut and refinement power by varying application pressure and speed - again, this would not be considered by the above test but using these polishes achieves crystal sharp finishes.

There is more to polishing technology and application than meets the eye and than you post above - #205 with longer work times increases the gloss, especially when you reduce the application pressure. A diminshing abrasive polish such as, to name one of a great many Power Finish, will enhance the gloss as you lengthen the work time as the abrasives break down over time, which is completely contrary to the graphs that were presented.

I would be very keen to see a proper set of testing carried out and a proper set of results to really see how the Sonax compares to today's market leading polishes... but a simple 2kg single pressure test will tell absolutely nothing.


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## Juras (May 5, 2010)

Hi Dave,
Thanks for you extensive explanation, from which I understood we are talking about different kind of polishes. 
SONAX PremiumClass SaphirPower polish is HAND polish and can be used by regular, not experienced, DIY user. This polish did not requires having polishing machine, pads, etc. (but can be used with). 
If you would like to compare Menzerna, Meguiars, etc. profesional products with SONAX, you should consider also professional SONAX polishes from PROFILINE range.
About technology: I agree with you that’s not new as far as it refers to the application for professionals e.g. in paint shops. But very new as far as it refers a do-it-yourself application. There is no DIY-polish I know which uses this high-quality abrasive.
Regards


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

Dave KG said:


> There is more to polishing technology and application than meets the eye and than you post above - #205 with longer work times increases the gloss, especially when you reduce the application pressure. A diminshing abrasive polish such as, to name one of a great many Power Finish, will enhance the gloss as you lengthen the work time as the abrasives break down over time, which is completely contrary to the graphs that were presented.
> 
> I would be very keen to see a proper set of testing carried out and a proper set of results to really see how the Sonax compares to today's market leading polishes... but a simple 2kg single pressure test will tell absolutely nothing.


Absolutely correct Dave. Its a real science and an art but its not just about abrasives. glazes have evolved a long way and should be embraced by all.

Now to get back to what achieves the shiniest shine
Its my opinion that prep work, complete paint correction followed by deep cleaning of the paint, triple glazing steps and titanium/glass paint protection systems will provide just that due to their mega high refractive index

whilst paint correction is awesome, if you want the best results, you must open the paint pores and flush them clean for optimum clarity 
Use molecular fusion product to fuse the paint flat and flush the pores and soften the clear. 
Now abrasively polish the paint with fine foam pads - finishing with 90 and 100 ppi foam 
Finishing with 60 or 70 ppi foam vs 90 to 100 ppi means - greater colour shade richness and depth. each finer grade you go, the more colour richness that is achieved. it will just take longer to work and finish using an abrasive polish. maybe switch to polishes for soft paints such as Menz 87MF and Prima Finish then Amigo.

Reclean the pores, do one, two or three glaze steps with todays clay or glass based products (not glazes that just use oils which wash out quickly) allowing each product to dry and cure for up to 24 hours and finish up with a titanium/glass or glass based system such as GLARE. both types will actually replenish the clear coat with colour magnifying microns of glass (synthetic clear coat I call it) and make the metallic flake and colour coats look further and further away from the clear which will after many layers, take on the look and thickness of a glass window

abrasives have their place but I'm an advocate of filling systems which are long term and use glass and secret materials to fill, not clay and oils. 
I've enjoyed its ease of use and benefits for five years now and the new one thats out is even better.

Perfection is a process not one product


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## Jim Lucier (Mar 27, 2010)

*Back to the original question*

Been at this for a few years and have found that like most anything you do, preparation is the key. A sound clean finish followed by claying, Meguiar's #7 pure polish followed with Meguiar's #26 yellow wax will yield a shine that rivals the best. I applied this on my beige 1998 SL500 and my dark red 2007 Suburban with stunning results. Yes you have to work at it.


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## Herby (Oct 2, 2009)

ppuaar said:


> alright mate enough of that was funny the first time no one likes a smart a$$


haha - some people know how to make friends and get help the easy way.....and some DON'T


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