# DSG vs Manual. Where do you sit?



## apmaman (Jun 8, 2010)

Having a little debate about DSG vs Manual. 

Where do you guys sit?

Personally I cannot see why anyone would perfer manual to DSG after 2 weeks of using DSG (or DSG equivalent for you Audi/BMW/Ferrari drivers)

It has all the involving, "race car" like position and thrill of a manual, whilst the effortless, smooth and faster than humanly possible gear changes which provide a faster all round package.

I see DSG as the future.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

My next car will be DSG, I don't think I share your enthusiasm over them though, they are still an auto box at the end of the day and people have to have choice 
like do like this though


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

22k for a Golf...OUCH!!!

Personally prefer a manual BUT its the best auto box available.


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

I have an Edition 30 Golf which is manual, and I regret not getting it in DSG now. It's definitely the future, easier in traffic, fun when you want it to be, and the clutch can take more torque


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## auditek (Sep 20, 2008)

My last and present cars were/are dsg..would never go back to manual..Sooo last century :driver:


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## lincslad (Aug 23, 2011)

DSG i hope, new car should be here in 2 weeks and after waiting 5 months it better be good, i had a good few goes in a dsg car and loved it, but like anything you never know until you live with it, so fingers crossed


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

RussZS said:


> I have an Edition 30 Golf which is manual, and I regret not getting it in DSG now. It's definitely the future, easier in traffic, fun when you want it to be, and the clutch can take more torque


When I ordered this car DSG was £1300 (which was okish) but then the steering wheel paddle shift was another £500  so stuck with manual, but the next one will be DSG :thumb:


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Auto any day, I hate manual. Even though I drive one.


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## dubber (Oct 2, 2011)

I have dsg with flappy paddle in the Audi , love it can be fun when u want it to be. But it's manual next as my next weapon of choice doesn't have the option of dsg


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## Black Magic Detail (Aug 17, 2010)

manual all the way


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

Ive got it in to VW {IL} forum,so many VW owners talking about DSG failure,
id stick to the manuel option.


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## silverback (Jun 18, 2008)

i specifically wanted a manual on my e60 and boy was it a nightmare.i just like the idea and feel of gear changes over auto`s.add to that i dont need the car to be able to switch gears in 100ths of a second as im not a racing driver lol,do you really need to shave off seconds with dsg for an every day driver ?,the additional cost is a joke and if it breaks down its not cheap.it may not be flash,but i love manual


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2011)

I have a manual Focus RS and a SST Evo X, completely different animals. It takes time to get what the SST is all about and how to drive it properly. I would have to say the SST though, full auto when just potting about, exceptionally quick full throttle changes when you're on it, fantastic once you've learned to use it properly.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I hate auto boxes...now got 3 of them :wall:

one does have the button gear change on the steering wheel, so I'll see how I get on with it...

I still think that even though there are manual options with these cars, the box is an auto at the end of the day, so it's always in control... or maybe a manual just gives the illusion of control... hmmm

all I know is my bike is for having fun....and it's a manual....

:thumb:


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2011)

I'll add that I wouldn't have an automated manual in a 'normal' car where the need for full throttle quick changes isn't really needed, may as well just have a full auto. I doubt there will be many people who have had considerable exposure to automated manuals where they excel.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

I wasn't overly struck with DSG, yes it changes gear quickly but it's not a patch on the auto box in my sisters E60 530D in sport mode.


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2011)

That's a fair point bigmc, there's a big difference between manufacturers systems. There's even a big difference between between different modes in the same car.


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

Manual for me, all the DSG "type" boxes are great but they do seem to be a bit prone to problems when compared to a normal manual box.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

My spec B has a semi auto box which I though I would hate but I prefer it now,really handy for around town.


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## Richf (Apr 26, 2008)

Wont hold the gear in a corner, you end up driving around the box with dsg they have no place on a proper performance car , better suited to mile munchers and shopping cars imo 

My old boss used to say auto's are best suited for one legged old ladies


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Manual all the way for me. 

I know a DSG is quicker at changing gear but what's the hurry on the road anyway?? Lol Admittedly I've not driven a DSG equipped car but always felt a lack of clutch pedal and gears doesn't feel as involved.

For doing mega miles then a DSG is ideal as you get the best of both. Auto for round town and semi auto for a blast. 

I don't do much driving but when I do I enjoy the skill involved when you master (or try too haha) a manual box.


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## rds1985 (Mar 7, 2009)

Depends on what type of driving you do imho.

In town/long journeys DSG all the way, but if it's on nice A/B roads i would take a manual every time. 

Would anyone argue that they feel a DSG offers a more involved driver experience?


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## Maggi200 (Aug 21, 2009)

Day I can't change gear for myself is the day I give up driving full stop

I've tried to like dsg boxes, and I just can't.


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## ROMEYR32 (Mar 27, 2011)

DSG all the way for me, it`s on our Touran and the R32


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Manual for me, dsg is to jerky, hesitant and dulls the drive. It's also not particularly fuel efficient. If you want an auto get a proper one like they put in jags & mercs


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2011)

Richf said:


> Wont hold the gear in a corner, you end up driving around the box with dsg they have no place on a proper performance car , better suited to mile munchers and shopping cars imo
> 
> My old boss used to say auto's are best suited for one legged old ladies


Sorry, can you expand on the won't hold a gear on a corner? I select the gear and it stays in it.

No place on a proper performance car? Yeah, the GTR is a right bag of ****, don't know why they bothered...


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## BeeZy (Aug 28, 2011)

If you drive DSG you would never go back.


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## ROMEYR32 (Mar 27, 2011)

SteveTDCi said:


> Manual for me, dsg is to jerky, hesitant and dulls the drive. It's also not particularly fuel efficient. If you want an auto get a proper one like they put in jags & mercs


If you drove it in the R32 you might change your mind


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

I've drove it in a few cars and wasn't amazed by it. It's still not as good as a manual (imho) but I think they'll get much better quickly and eventually replace manuals.


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## ROMEYR32 (Mar 27, 2011)

TBH when the touran changes down in to first at traffic lights etc it is really noticeable, the golf however is silky smooth. Oil changes are critical though at 40 k I think.


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## Derbyshire-stig (Dec 22, 2010)

DSG is great if your missus wants to give you a BJ while out,
manual must be best as the emo is a manual :driver:


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

I used to think Manual was better. However i bought a Diseasel DSG Octavia first and liked that so much that i wished i had it on my Manual vRS. So when i bought my new vRS in June i made sure i specced DSG this time.

My car is also mapped and the 2.0TSi engine coupled with DSG is brilliant. Stick it in D when you want to be lazy or stuck in traffic, Stick it in S with the ESP off for a B road blast or, as i do pretty much all the time unlees in stuck in traffic, put in in manual mode and use the paddles to pretend your Jenson Button as you drive along.

The seamless transition between gears is brilliant and i also like how it blips the throttle for you to match the revs when downshifting. Becomes quite addictive :devil::car::driver:


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

Missed one option..DSG should carry same 10yr warranty in the UK as it does in the US


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## Richf (Apr 26, 2008)

EvoBedmonster said:


> Sorry, can you expand on the won't hold a gear on a corner? I select the gear and it stays in it.
> 
> No place on a proper performance car? Yeah, the GTR is a right bag of ****, don't know why they bothered...


I've only driven the VAG dsgs since the term DSG usually relates to VAG gearboxes but in manual mode (bit of a misnomer as it will still change gear automatically if it sees fit ) as you approach a corner you select say 3rd gear, you are doing 4000rpm entering the corner , as you accelerate out of the corner it will still drop down a gear , often (in the case of the more powerful FWD VAG variants ) inducing torque steer.

In normal drive mode it may go up a gear as you come off the throttle for the bend and then drop two as you exit

Makes it extremly difficult to balance the car on the throttle mid bend

I have heard a software fix does transform the box, so seems to have something in common with the GTR


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## Edward101 (Jun 5, 2009)

DSG is fantastic, especially the 7 speed, smooth, fast and is great on a commute, paddles for fun and just leave it in drive and relax in the morning traffic :thumb:


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2011)

That's madness, if the VAG system does that then it's dreadful. I haven't driven a VAG DSG. I've only driven Evo X, BMW 535d, Lamborghini Gallardo, none of which did what you describe so it's one of two things, the VAG system is crap, or it's the driver.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

There's a remap for the dsg box isn't there?


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

EvoBedmonster said:


> No place on a proper performance car? Yeah, the GTR is a right bag of ****, don't know why they bothered...


I think to say it doesn't have a place on a performance car is silly but I personally think it takes some of the driver involvement away.

Yes it makes the GTR quicker but that's because it removes the drivers input in how you change gear.

For sheer performance DSG gear boxes are the way forward. Is driving always about how fast you can change gear? Even when it's done for you?

In that sense why not cut out the driver all together and let a computer drive as fast as is mathematically possible lol


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

My next VW will definitely have DSG - I'd be driving one now had I been able to obtain one at the time I obtained my current Golf.

DSG + Paddles = the way ahead for me.


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## ROMEYR32 (Mar 27, 2011)

The egear system in the Gallardo and R8 is VAG isnt it??


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Richf said:


> Wont hold the gear in a corner, you end up driving around the box with dsg they have no place on a proper performance car , better suited to mile munchers and shopping cars imo


I think that is the same for any auto box though, not just the new stuff...

I'm always waiting and wondering if I have twitched my right foot enough for it to hold gear / change up / down or do whatever it feels like sometimes...

but the more you get to know the car, and understand how the box has been set up, it becomes less of a guessing game....

:thumb:

oh and as for the where do you sit as asked in the thread title.... I still sit in the drivers seat...I did try sitting in the passenger seat once, but it didn't really work very well...so changed back to the drivers one...are other people sitting differently with these gear boxes...are they bigger or something?!?!


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Richf said:


> I've only driven the VAG dsgs since the term DSG usually relates to VAG gearboxes but in manual mode (bit of a misnomer as it will still change gear automatically if it sees fit ) as you approach a corner you select say 3rd gear, you are doing 4000rpm entering the corner , as you accelerate out of the corner it will still drop down a gear , often (in the case of the more powerful FWD VAG variants ) inducing torque steer.
> 
> In normal drive mode it may go up a gear as you come off the throttle for the bend and then drop two as you exit
> 
> ...


Thats what really annoyed me with mine, ok you shouldn't redline a diesel but I should have the choice of whether it should change gear or not


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## Dixondmn (Oct 12, 2007)

DSG depends on the engine its mounted too. The Jag XF and 5 series BMW are far more pleasurable to drive than a Golf or Passat with a DSG stuck to a little 2.0 Diesel.

i found the DSG to be very jerky in certain smaller cars.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

bigmc said:


> There's a remap for the dsg box isn't there?


yeh there is.


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

bigmc said:


> There's a remap for the dsg box isn't there?


Only for cars up to 2009 iirc. Basically any of the MK6 Golfs and the FL Octavias etc can't be mapped (although they are working on it) as VAG have changed the way the software operates from the 2009 models onwards


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

dixon75 said:


> DSG depends on the engine its mounted too. The Jag XF and 5 series BMW are far more pleasurable to drive than a Golf or Passat with a DSG stuck to a little 2.0 Diesel.
> 
> i found the DSG to be very jerky in certain smaller cars.


I had DSG on my 2.0 PD 140 Octavia and it was as smooth as a babies bottom.

Sometimes they need a reset as they learn how you drive. So for example if you drive like a granny all the time and then one day go out for a bit of blast you will find the changes slow and jerky as that's not what it's used to.

I had to reset the one on my Diseasel as that must have been owned by a granny previously.

They also need to be serviced every 40K miles which aint cheep as the oil is circa £12 a litre and it needs 6.5litres of the stuff. Generally a DSG Service is around £150-170 from a dealer which "should" include a reset but not all of them do it.

Some cars had problems around 2008 with the Mechatronics unit (the bit that controls the brain of the box) and this resulted in jerkiness at slow speeds and in reverse. Dealers will replace this FOC if you go in armed with the right information and have a warranty (Sometimes they will do it as a good will gesture if your just out too). If you don't have a warranty i would highly recommend getting something like warranty direct as a mechatronics unit change will cost circa £1500 from a dealer.


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Veyron system is also pretty similar.


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

Another vote for DSG here:thumb:


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## e32chris (Sep 21, 2011)

i will definately buy a car with dsg due to an accident i can no longer operate a clutch pedal, had always owned manual cars, so this option gives me back some of the control i lost.:thumb:


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## Dixondmn (Oct 12, 2007)

vRS Carl said:


> I had DSG on my 2.0 PD 140 Octavia and it was as smooth as a babies bottom.
> 
> Sometimes they need a reset as they learn how you drive. So for example if you drive like a granny all the time and then one day go out for a bit of blast you will find the changes slow and jerky as that's not what it's used to.
> 
> ...


I agree that Autos are definitely the future, I just think some of the boxes are better mated to bigger engines. 
Autos are much better suited to the stop start driving we have these days.

All gearboxes should be serviced at least once in my opinion whether manual or auto, its just most manufacturers started making sealed for life boxes.


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## Woodking (Oct 21, 2011)

I've owned 3 cars with DSG drom new and had problems with each.

It's manual all the way for me now, prefer to be in control and change gear when I want to, not when the car decides I should! ETTO.


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