# Why to avoid Arnold Clark/ Mercedes. MAJOR RANT



## Kerr

I guess I better come clean after being outed here by a new member.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=4922668#post4922668

http://www.aclassclub.co.uk/forum/problems-with-my-car-rant-advice_topic6005.html

I had been keeping it mostly low key while matter are ongoing. You'll see a constant blog that seems a bit disjointed as it was posted as it was happening and as things were found.

I'm sure most people seen I bought a Mercedes A45 AMG brand new a few months ago. It was purchased through Arnold Clark in Dundee.

I picked the car up after finishing a night shift and it was a horrible day outside. In fact the first few days of my ownership was all in the rain and I never had the chance to give it a good clean. As soon as the sun came out a few days later, it highlighted many things that I've been fighting to have sorted since.

The obvious things that I knew soon enough were interior rattles. It has a few and seems to be a very common problem with the A class. It's no biggie and should be easy enough to sort.

Then I noticed that they've damaged the wheels. I initially only noticed one wheel, but later I noticed a second wheel where they've scored right through the coating when fitting the wheels. Just inside the countersunk holes, their socket has torn the coating off the wheel. As we all know, the wheel will start to corrode from this damage outwards.

Not that the cost really should matter, but these wheels are a £900 upgrade over the standard wheels and I'm told are about £700 each on their own as an outright purchase.

Then one day I looked out the kitchen window with the car bouncing off the C pillar and seen all sorts of distortion and dents.

The car hadn't left my sight and I knew this was nothing to do with me. I looked back on my earlier photographs and had actually captured it on day one without knowing at the time.

I tried to contact the salesman and didn't get a return call. I then emailed him and didn't get any contact. I then called into the dealer and got put in contact with Tony Higgins, who is the branch manager.

Running through all the issues, he was happy to accept the problems and said they'd be sorted. He didn't even want to see the car, which surprised me. It was me who pressurised him to view the car and he didn't seem too concerned. He admitted that the damage was transportation damage and all would be rectified no question.

The meeting was positive as he assured me all would be ok, but concerning that he didn't at all seem bothered. He just made excuses and was happy that "these things happen" as justification. He ruled out any investigation and said it wasn't needed.

The first offer of fixing the car was PDR. I was fine with that, but I didn't think it would be possible. It took weeks of failed promises by Tony Higgins to arrange the PDR guy. When he finally did get the call, the PDR guy was angry at his time being wasted and said Tony Higgins should have known they couldn't repair such damage.

The dealer then became even more awkward and evasive, asking for proof when the damage happened. I sent photographs from day one, and there was also a customer video from the dealer that they filmed. It was low resolution, but you could see there was distortion on the panel. So case closed as far as I'm concerned.

However as it was dragging on and I had lost confidence in the dealer, I contacted Mercedes customer care to help. They are useless!

Between the dealer and myself, the dealer offered me compensation to live with the damage. I flatly refused this ridiculous offer.

The second offer was for the car to be repaired at their bodyshop, but I would have to sign a disclaimer if I wasn't happy with the work, I'd have no come back. :doublesho

Yes they really did suggest that.

Further communication with Mercedes uncovered more lies from the dealer. They were giving Mercedes a completely false account of what had happened, but Mercedes backed the dealer.

After fully admitting liability, the dealer retracted it and said it was nothing to do with them. Any further action would be on a goodwill basis only.

My blood was boiling at being stabbed in the back.

I visited numerous bodyshops for professional opinions. The professionals all pointed out further marks/dents/distortion and all said it was either transportation damage, or a defect in the metal press. They all ruled out that these were actual dents caused by impact, or myself.

Both C pillars have compression marks at various points.

It was also the approved Mercedes bodyshop and Arnold Clark's own bodyshop that agreed with this.

The dealer thought they were getting off the hook with a manufacturing defect, but their own internal warranty department believe it is transportation damage after their own approved bodyshop forwarded photos and a report.

The dealer was helpful when they thought they were ok, but when they were blamed again, they went quiet and wouldn't communicate.

After 3 weeks they decided the photos weren't good enough and made more excuses. Then the dealer wanted Mercedes to view the car and said that would take until August to get someone to view the car.

It's big turn around from refusing an investigation when I requested it after a few days.

Arnold Clark customer services are equally as bad. When I reported the damage I phoned in the first few times as most customers would. However the only proof they have of me contacting the dealer is 10 days into ownership by email.

They really are holding on to this written proof in the dispute ignoring all the facts.

They have ignored the day one photograph. They've ignored the video from the dealer, which has been deleted from the host in the last week coincidentally, and they've ignored all the professional opinions.

This dispute has been running since late March and this is now the middle of June.

The way Mercedes of Dundee and Arnold Clark have behaved is nothing short of criminal.

Mercedes customer care is based in Holland and is useless too. They just buy everything the dealer says and offer no support whatsoever.

At one stage I had a pointless argument on the phone with a young girl that accused me of contradicting myself. Throughout the case I called the issues "damage". When the bodyshop said defect we had a pointless argument saying the car can't have damage and a defect and I was wrong.

Last week I've had the case escalated to Mercedes customer care management. We've had a few emails back and forward and have made some progress.

First off she's accepted liability as the damage being transportation. Finally after all these months someone has accepted the obvious.

The offer on the table at the moment is for their approved bodyshop to repair the car and for me to be compensated. I know the bodyshop is very good and see Clark at Polished Bliss saying it is the only bodyshop he'd recommend.

It's still totally besides the point. I've bought a brand new car and haven't had the chance to enjoy my new car. I've been staying mostly quiet in the background trying to solve all these issues without getting anywhere.

I've told her to forget any compensation payment to me and use that money to fund a brand new replacement car. Buying an A45 AMG is not a car bought when finances are the key thing, it's the car.

Arnold Clark have an absolutely woeful reputation and I should have known better. However I thought that since this was a brand new car I wouldn't really need them for anything.

I won't for my life of me go near Arnold Clark again, and if Mercedes don't force their dealer to do something fast, I won't ever go near Mercedes again either.

You wouldn't begin to believe how much nonsense has been going on for the last few months.


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## Kerr

Give me 20 minutes. I've accidentally posted too early


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## VW Golf-Fan

Hmm, have you informed the dealer about your disappointment?

I know Arnold Shark have always had a bad reputation but hope you manage to get everything sorted hassle free.


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## RisingPower

To be fair, it's not problems with the car is it? It's the ****ty dealer.

You always do things too early


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## Kerr

RisingPower said:


> To be fair, it's not problems with the car is it? It's the ****ty dealer.
> 
> You always do things too early


The only car issue with the car is the rattles. The wheels and damage are down to the dealer.

The dealer asked to leave the work to solve the rattles and fix the wheels until after the body was sorted.

They originally wanted to touch up the wheels, but later agreed to replace them. Still absolutely no mention of the wheels coming though......


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## polac5397

have you had the customer service questionnaire from them, if not when it comes score it with zeros. It triggers all types of merry hell for them. Hope you get sorted mate


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## nbray67

Good luck with sorting it all out Kerr, as you saying, buying new should never be a problem but we had similar issues with E.Halshaw a few years ago where they simply were pig ignorant after we paid our hard earned pound notes to them.

The major thing here is that it spoils the overall enjoyment of the actual car, which is the sole reason you laid out substantial money for.

Again, good luck and fingers crossed Mercedes step in and look after 'their' customer that AC have chewed up and spat out.


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## m4rkymark

In Dundee Neil is the service manager and to be fair he was really good when I had a complaint. I thought a chap called Ian was the principle? Stalky fellow with really short reddish hair, that was nearly a year ago I dealt with them so people may have changed since then.

That's not so good to hear the way MB are treating you - hope you get it sorted - it's a huge amount of money to be out on a damaged car.


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## Rundie

You should have paid for and appointed an Independant Assessor with qualifications, manufacturers will ALWAYS back the dealer until you get a qualified independant involved. At this stage the manufacturer then backs down and beats the dealer to a solution as they know they can't win in court against a professional report.
I've been there, similar scenario and it was a joy to see then panic once I had 'a stick to beat them with'.
BTW, the assessor was free in the end as we claimed the cost of this plus all other costs and compo from the dealer.


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## Kerr

polac5397 said:


> have you had the customer service questionnaire from them, if not when it comes score it with zeros. It triggers all types of merry hell for them. Hope you get sorted mate


I filled in the customer satisfaction survey when I got it. I filled it in making the dealer as low as I could. The survey then prompted me to allow my points to be put forward to the dealer, which I agreed.

A few days later I got another email saying on the back of the survey, all issues raised were now rectified and closed to my satisfaction. This was a total lie by the dealer as nothing had happened.

The email then asked if I was happy and to click a box to agree or disagree. I clicked disagree and it then said I'd be called back within 5 days.

I never heard a thing.


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## Kerr

m4rkymark said:


> In Dundee Neil is the service manager and to be fair he was really good when I had a complaint. I thought a chap called Ian was the principle? Stalky fellow with really short reddish hair, that was nearly a year ago I dealt with them so people may have changed since then.
> 
> That's not so good to hear the way MB are treating you - hope you get it sorted - it's a huge amount of money to be out on a damaged car.


I think Tony Higgins was promoted in recent months. His Linkedin page says 3 months. He is the top man now, which is worrying.

Neil Findlay the service manager? He's been copied in a lot of the email but hasn't actually said anything yet. He's not been involved.


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## Kerr

Rundie said:


> You should have paid for and appointed an Independant Assessor with qualifications, manufacturers will ALWAYS back the dealer until you get a qualified independant involved. At this stage the manufacturer then backs down and beats the dealer to a solution as they know they can't win in court against a professional report.
> I've been there, similar scenario and it was a joy to see then panic once I had 'a stick to beat them with'.
> BTW, the assessor was free in the end as we claimed the cost of this plus all other costs and compo from the dealer.


The dealer themselves said transportation damage from the off. Obviously later changed their mind. Their own internal warranty department based at Mercedes Perth also say transportation. Their own approved Mercedes bodyshop also transportation/manufacturing defect. Their own repair centre in Aberdeen say transportation damage.

The dealer knows who is to blame. All the dealer and Arnold Clark are trying to do is worm out of their responsibilities.

I think the damage happened when the car was shipped from Aberdeen to Dundee. That's nothing to do with Mercedes themselves.

I've got a lot of this on email for proof if the case needs to go further.

As it stands just now, I've got a customer care manager writing to confirm that this is transportation damage. That's about all I can get from them.

Now I just need to push for the closure that I'm looking for.


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## DJ X-Ray

That's bloody shocking Kerr mate, they're taking the pss!

After spending that sort of money i'd do exactly what you're doing and want a completely brand new motor.

Hope it all works out for you.


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## Rundie

Kerr said:


> The dealer themselves said transportation damage from the off. Obviously later changed their mind. Their own internal warranty department based at Mercedes Perth also say transportation. Their own approved Mercedes bodyshop also transportation/manufacturing defect. Their own repair centre in Aberdeen say transportation damage.
> 
> The dealer knows who is to blame. All the dealer and Arnold Clark are trying to do is worm out of their responsibilities.
> 
> I think the damage happened when the car was shipped from Aberdeen to Dundee. That's nothing to do with Mercedes themselves.
> 
> I've got a lot of this on email for proof if the case needs to go further.
> 
> As it stands just now, I've got a customer care manager writing to confirm that this is transportation damage. That's about all I can get from them.
> 
> Now I just need to push for the closure that I'm looking for.


The issue we had was 'transport damage', the whole N/S was resprayed (poorly) by the dealer after being damaged coming off the transporter (brand new car). The manufacturer considers the dealer as a franchise and doesn't listen to the punter over their opinion....until you get a third party expert and then the Manufacturer and the Dealer sit up and take notice.


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## Rayaan

Sorry to hear that mate, hope it gets sorted how you want it. Would **** me off quite a bit if I was in your position.

I dont think its an Arnold Clark thing, its a Mercedes thing in general. I have switched 2 dealerships whilst owning the C-class and Im reasonably happy with stratstone atm.


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## Kerr

Rundie said:


> The issue we had was 'transport damage', the whole N/S was resprayed (poorly) by the dealer after being damaged coming off the transporter (brand new car). The manufacturer considers the dealer as a franchise and doesn't listen to the punter over their opinion....until you get a third party expert and then the Manufacturer and the Dealer sit up and take notice.


What outcome did you get? A repair or new car?

Mine hasn't been painted. All the thickness readings are spot on.

I can only guess that they've put slings over car rather than through the wheels. The compression/distortion/dents is the same both sides as if something was over the car.


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## Rundie

Kerr said:


> What outcome did you get? A repair or new car?
> 
> Mine hasn't been painted. All the thickness readings are spot on.
> 
> I can only guess that they've put slings over car rather than through the wheels. The compression/distortion/dents is the same both sides as if something was over the car.


We got use of the rejected car for about six weeks while a brand new 'mint' car was re-ordered and delivered, also all expenses/costs reimbursed plus £500 cash compensation. All negotiations were conducted at the Dealers with myself, the dealership Director and the manufacturers representative present. The dealership was playing hardball until the manufacturer's rep asked me to give them a moment, on my return they agreed to all my demands and the dealership Director sat their like a school kid who'd just been told off :thumb:


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## m4rkymark

Kerr said:


> I think Tony Higgins was promoted in recent months. His Linkedin page says 3 months. He is the top man now, which is worrying.
> 
> Neil Findlay the service manager? He's been copied in a lot of the email but hasn't actually said anything yet. He's not been involved.


It's obviously changed since I dealt with them. Yes Neil Findlay is the service manager.

When my car was damaged they repaired it in their body shop in Dundee, they did make a good job but it had to go back for them to finish it properly - they left dirt in the clearcoat but to be fair the new paint is smoother than the factory paint, it's got less orange peel in it - if you didn't know you wouldn't notice it though. I believe all Arnold Clarke's personal cars go into their Dundee body shop if they need paint work.


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## Kerr

Rundie said:


> We got use of the rejected car for about six weeks while a brand new 'mint' car was re-ordered and delivered, also all expenses/costs reimbursed plus £500 cash compensation. All negotiations were conducted at the Dealers with myself, the dealership Director and the manufacturers representative present. The dealership was playing hardball until the manufaturer's rep asked me to give them a moment, on my return they agreed to all my demands and the dealership Director sat their like a school kid who'd just been told off :thumb:


At least you got it sorted.

I'm not sure who is calling the shot in my case. Tony Higgins at Dundee in the manager, but I've a feeling Arnold Clark Customer care is overruling him.

Reading back all my emails, he retracted liability after they got involved. I grilled him by email to explain his sudden and unexplained turnaround. He said he hadn't changed his stance but avoided all other questions on the matter. I've asked him a few times and he just evades the questions over and over.

It could be the case he knows what he should be doing, but Arnold Clark won't allow him. He has said in a few emails that he'll need to contact customer services.

I asked Arnold Clark customers service directly if they were overruling the dealer, but they avoided those questions too.

It is reading that basically Arnold Clark have the say and the dealer doesn't.


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## Rundie

Had similar, the sales manager that we did the deal with at first agreed and promised it would be sorted, the Director of the multi site dealership had a different approach and then the sales manager towed the line and denied everything he had said. I spent weeks being pushed from dealer to manufacturer and back again, only when I got the Assessor involved and a report saying the car had been de-valued by a substantial amount did they all start to play ball. 
My thoughts are that only then did they realise I meant business and would take it all the way.

The assessor and report was only about £75 to 100 from memory, make sure they are qualified and willing to go to court if required. I suggested this course of action to a mate on another forum with similar issues and he finally took the same route and it worked for him too.


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## Kerr

m4rkymark said:


> It's obviously changed since I dealt with them. Yes Neil Findlay is the service manager.
> 
> When my car was damaged they repaired it in their body shop in Dundee, they did make a good job but it had to go back for them to finish it properly - they left dirt in the clearcoat but to be fair the new paint is smoother than the factory paint, it's got less orange peel in it - if you didn't know you wouldn't notice it though. I believe all Arnold Clarke's personal cars go into their Dundee body shop if they need paint work.


The problem is you do know. My car is red and we all know how difficult red is to paint.

At the moment the bodyshop for me is Kinghorn up near me. They have a really good name and have been good to deal with so far. As I said Clark at Polished Bliss recommend them.

However my brand new car shouldn't be going near a bodyshop.

The repair method required is having both the pillars repaired, painting both quarter panels fully, then blending into the rear doors.

It's a lot of the car that'll need painted.

Their quote for the repair was around £1300.

Edit. The quote is £1354.


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## Rundie

Brand new car, reject it !!
Totally unreasonable for them to expect you to accept that extent of repair on a brand new car, regardless of the quality of workmanship it will knock money off the future value. Given what you've said you're 100% in the right if you choose to reject.


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## m4rkymark

Kerr said:


> The problem is you do know. My car is red and we all know how difficult red is to paint.
> 
> At the moment the bodyshop for me is Kinghorn up near me. They have a really good name and have been good to deal with so far. As I said Clark at Polished Bliss recommend them.
> 
> However my brand new car shouldn't be going near a bodyshop.
> 
> The repair method required is having both the pillars repaired, painting both quarter panels fully, then blending into the rear doors.
> 
> It's a lot of the car that'll need painted.
> 
> Their quote for the repair was around £1300.


Yep your right - you do know - to me it doesn't matter that no on else knows - all that matters is I know. Your right that is a lot of paintwork which would be needed - I would be absolutely gutted and would want the car replaced. It sounds like you have a lot of evidence and if push comes to shove they can't deny it was damaged before you got it so hopefully once MB see the car they will agree it needs changed.

I hate that mine was painted 3weeks after I got it. I will sell the car next year now, it's not a keeper. Mine is northern lights violet - to paint the door they took £700.


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## PugIain

Jesus, I'd be going ape ****.
If I'd bought a brand new anything I'd be expecting an invitation to go and rod the salesman's wife, none of this crap.


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## MDC250

I can see this ending one of two ways now this is 'outed'.

AC/MB do the right thing and sort this out properly and quickly to avoid a PR disaster.

AC/MB dig in and make life difficult for you.

I hope it's the former buddy I really do. New car and one as nice as an A45 should not come with this kind of baggage. In fairness no new car should.


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## Kerr

MDC250 said:


> I can see this ending one of two ways now this is 'outed'.
> 
> AC/MB do the right thing and sort this out properly and quickly to avoid a PR disaster.
> 
> AC/MB dig in and make life difficult for you.
> 
> I hope it's the former buddy I really do. New car and one as nice as an A45 should not come with this kind of baggage. In fairness no new car should.


Arnold Clark don't give a **** about their customers. They are too big to care.

I've seen their nonsense many times on a personal level. I just didn't expect it with a new car.

It wasn't that long ago that they bought the Mercedes dealerships. They've quickly fallen to Arnold Clark's standards though.

The dealer and Mercedes were linked into the other thread a few weeks back on the Merc forum. It has neither made them speed up or remove their heels.

Their heels have been digging in from day one. I've had to pressurise them every step of the way over the last few months.

I'm up a level to management at Mercedes. Let's see if they shw some common sense. So far she's been fine and at least taken responsibility.

I guess I'll know in a few days time how this will go. Management won't have time to mess around and will want a quick resolution.

I've got a solid offer of a warranty repair and compensation on the table (no idea how much) but ad I've said, it's a new car I want, not compensation.

Fingers crossed.


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## Alfa male

Forgive my ignorance on this but do you still have the right to reject the car based on this ongoing dispute or has that timed out now ?

Hope you get it sorted.


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## MEH4N

Sounds like a huge PITA. Its shocking how much customer service slacks these days especially with some car garages. Hope you get it sorted Kerr especially as its a new car too.


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## Kerr

Alfa male said:


> Forgive my ignorance on this but do you still have the right to reject the car based on this ongoing dispute or has that timed out now ?
> 
> Hope you get it sorted.


The request to reject was made very early. I told the manager that if the PDR failed I wouldn't accept a respray.

I have it all in writing too.

Speaking to Trading Standards/Consumer Advice, they've never mentioned time running out.

All the time wasting is from the dealers' side. It's their fault the case had gone on for so long. It would make a mockery of consumer rights if all companies had to do was waste a few months until it had time lapsed.


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## Paul04

This is shocking, have you contacted Watchdog?


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## andy665

I worked with Mercedes Benz UK a few years ago and walked away - I wanted nothing to do with them - totally incompetent bunch of muppets down in Milton Keynes - no one prepared to make a decision and all out to further their own careers - customer care are words only down there

Based on working with them I would never buy a new 

I hope you get it sorted and it doesn't sour the experience of a great car


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## millns84

Jeez Kerr, I don't know what to say. Their service is atrocious, almost like some kind of wind up where Jeremy Beadle pops out at the end!

Got to say though, aren't you well within your rights to reject a car up to 6 months? You're absolutely right about not wanting it repaired/painted even if the work undertaken is top notch... It just shouldn't need it, you know about it, it's not your perfect brand new car anymore is it? Why should you tolerate that?

It's not as if it's a £7k Dacia is it? You've paid premium prices for a premium car and that's what you should have got (as well as premium service!!). If I was looking at a new car in that price bracket, I think this story alone might make me think twice about a Merc no matter how much I love their cars

If it's an option, I'd be rejecting it.


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## slim_boy_fat

sorry to read all this Kerr.

Is there any finance on the vehicle? If so, get the finance company involved.


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## Starbuck88

Oh Wow.

I am very sorry to read this Kerr. All that money for a 'Prestigious' brand and they're treating you like Dog ****.

Sorry for the language but this is clearly a case of dealer trying to cover their tracks to save themselves the hassle and the money.

I REALLY hope you get a brand new replacement, this isn't on. I'll be watching this thread closely to see how it turns out.


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## bradleymarky

Sorry to hear this Kerr.

I remember a mate of mine taking a new car back after 2 month, he parked it on the forecourt and threw the keys at the manager and walked away. He was given a new car within 5 days. Pretty sure it was citizens advice who advised him.

It was a vauxhall dealership not a Merc though.


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## empsburna

Have you thought about getting naked and sitting in the showroom until they give you a new motor?


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## 182_Blue

Wow, not good to hear, i didnt realise you had even swapped, was the car pre registered with it being in the showroom?, you need to be carefull with dealer demos and showroom cars as they often have small defects and are passed onto dealers as demos etc.


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## Alfieharley1

Kerr if I was you I would take the car back hand back the keys with a letter of rejection they will drag it out before its to late. Also cancel your direct debit. If you want I can speak to my Cousin in Law who is a sales manager as to what your rights are and what he would recommend (he works for Renault now)


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## Andyg_TSi

Jeez,

Sorry to hear you've had to put up with such bad treatment, plus the absolute bare faced cheek and dishonesty on the part of the dealer, trying to get out of it.

They don't deserve to be in business if this is how they treat people for spending tens of thousands of pounds with them.
Bunch of c-units!


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## taylor8

post on Arnold Clarks Facebook page, that always goes down well, if its a bad review

https://www.facebook.com/ArnoldClarkAutomobiles?fref=ts

Mercs own Fb pages

https://www.facebook.com/MercedesBenzUk?fref=ts

Normally that gets a reaction they hate bad publicity on social media

Good luck!


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## SBM

as its been said on so many posts above, so very sorry to hear about this.
The A45 AMG is a terrific car and I can only imagine how totally incensed you must be :devil::devil::devil:

As above - if there is finance then get them involved and I would also be going straight to a consumer show like watchdog. If you have the evidence of the lies etc then they should be outed. This will costs them a ton more in lost business.

I have no idea of your finances but the other option is to take them legal. There is a great solicitor who has an extreme eye for detail etc and would probably get you terrific compensation

http://www.nickfreemansolicitors.co.uk/

Just a thought


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## RD55 DUN

Shocking customer service, but hey that’s what AC are renowned for!?

I hope you can get this sorted in the best manner asap.

Someone on a Social Media Group im in had issues with their A45 also, the spoiler started to detach itself…the dealer fought and fought and eventually he won, took ages. Expensive part also!


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## Kerr

Shaun said:


> Wow, not good to hear, i didnt realise you had even swapped, was the car pre registered with it being in the showroom?, you need to be carefull with dealer demos and showroom cars as they often have small defects and are passed onto dealers as demos etc.


The car was brand new and I'm the first owner.

I wanted a red car and it was nearly the spec I wanted. I opted for it to save the wait for a factory order.

Sitting in the dealership in Aberdeen the car looked clean. I did spend some time going over it and didn't see a thing.

I'm reasonably convinced the damage happened whilst the car was shipped between Aberdeen and Dundee.

At Dundee I did have another look over it, but I was looking at the obvious bits that would be caught usually. I didn't inspect the roof line as it's not a part I'd expect to see damaged.

I knew when the car left Aberdeen and when it arrived in Dundee. I knew there was no time for repairs.



RD55 DUN said:


> Shocking customer service, but hey that's what AC are renowned for!?
> 
> I hope you can get this sorted in the best manner asap.
> 
> Someone on a Social Media Group im in had issues with their A45 also, the spoiler started to detach itself…the dealer fought and fought and eventually he won, took ages. Expensive part also!


I think that guy is on the Merc forum. They originally blamed him for the damage and refused his claim. Only later once the dealer replaced it did they say it was a manufacturing defect.

It does appear from what I've read on the Merc forum, and what I've seen myself, Mercedes really need to overall their dealer network and customer care team.

I know how bad AC are, and really should have known better. I took my chances and got burned badly.

It wasn't that long ago they bought the Mercedes dealers and I was thinking that maybe they weren't as bad as the stack them high sell them cheap used car lots.

I also assumed that with a brand new car I wouldn't really need them for anything. I'm always prepared for some niggles with a new car, but I was expecting issues that would be supported by a manufacturer's warranty.

I've not heard back from Mercedes customer services for a couple of days now, so I'll send her an email now.


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## m4rkymark

would it be worth getting someone like auto express involved? you know where people write in to the magazine when they have issues and do a piece on it? I don't know if that would help or **** them off more...


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## Bero

Kerr said:


> What outcome did you get? A repair or new car?
> 
> Mine hasn't been painted. All the thickness readings are spot on.
> 
> I can only *guess that they've put slings over car rather than through the wheels.* The compression/distortion/dents is the same both sides as if something was over the car.


That cant be right! I've never seen cars transported like that! Not even scrap dealers do that:lol:

In any case it would not be safe as the straps would loosen when the lorry goes over a bump and the A-class suspension compresses.

Did you take paint readings from the roof as well? It may have been badly positioned and bumped into the deck above, they fixed the roof but the compression marks in the pillars remain. As you never noticed the damage initially I'm guessing it does not stand out until your notice it.

It could have happened at any stage from the time it left the factory.......or even in the factory!

It's a shame Arnold Shark are not doing the right thing.


----------



## Naddy37

I know this may sound a bit childish, but, I'd be seriously thinking about parking the car at the dealership, blocking access to it, so no one can drive in, or out.

Not helpful I know, but, it may be enough for the dealership to finally wake up, get their butts into gear and to realise you're not a push over.


----------



## HarryHedgehog

SBM said:


> as its been said on so many posts above, so very sorry to hear about this.
> The A45 AMG is a terrific car and I can only imagine how totally incensed you must be :devil::devil::devil:
> 
> As above - if there is finance then get them involved and I would also be going straight to a consumer show like watchdog. If you have the evidence of the lies etc then they should be outed. This will costs them a ton more in lost business.
> 
> I have no idea of your finances but the other option is to take them legal. There is a great solicitor who has an extreme eye for detail etc and would probably get you terrific compensation
> 
> http://www.nickfreemansolicitors.co.uk/
> 
> Just a thought


His book is great as well!


----------



## m4rkymark

do you think its been lifted with a recovery truck like this - so the straps are up the side of the car?


----------



## Tricky Red

I've got to be honest I wasn't that impressed when one of our company cars had a broken alloy - less than 2 years old, no impact mark and tyre completely intact but they refused the claim on the grounds that it must have hit a pothole. 

6th Mercedes we have had and think that these will possibly be the last ones.


----------



## Bero

neilos said:


> I know this may sound a bit childish, but, I'd be seriously thinking about parking the car at the dealership, blocking access to it, so no one can drive in, or out.
> 
> Not helpful I know, but, it may be enough for the dealership to finally wake up, get their butts into gear and to realise you're not a push over.


Completely illegal, they call the cops and you're forced to move it as you're blocking people's access to the public highway......that's if a customer does not punch you before the police get there! Of course AC could also start a civil action to recover any losses you cause them due to your illegal activity!

I nice big sticker up the side or your car and park it _near_ the entrance might do the trick........


----------



## taylor8

how come you live up beside Aberdeen and the car was in ABZ then moved to Dundee??


----------



## Bigstuff

Typical arnold!


----------



## Kerr

taylor8 said:


> how come you live up beside Aberdeen and the car was in ABZ then moved to Dundee??


The car was in the Aberdeen showroom when I first seen it. They weren't playing ball and wouldn't discount the car like other dealers would.

When I phoned Dundee to see what deals they could offer, they had two they could offer. One was in their showroom, however it wasn't the spec I wanted and was actually in poor condition. The other turned our to be the car in Aberdeen.

Arnold Clark own both Aberdeen and Dundee dealerships and the Dundee dealer sold the car to me for less than Aberdeen would.

So I bought the car from Dundee and they had to ship it from Aberdeen to themselves. I wasn't allowed to collect from Aberdeen.

Bonkers I know.


----------



## Kerr

Bero said:


> That cant be right! I've never seen cars transported like that! Not even scrap dealers do that:lol:
> 
> In any case it would not be safe as the straps would loosen when the lorry goes over a bump and the A-class suspension compresses.
> 
> Did you take paint readings from the roof as well? It may have been badly positioned and bumped into the deck above, they fixed the roof but the compression marks in the pillars remain. As you never noticed the damage initially I'm guessing it does not stand out until your notice it.
> 
> It could have happened at any stage from the time it left the factory.......or even in the factory!
> 
> It's a shame Arnold Shark are not doing the right thing.


Paint readings are spot on all over the car.

The damage is more pronounced on the driver's side than the passagers side. However it is the same places both sides.

There is 3 or 4 bits either side and they are numerous ripples/distortion at each bit. The marks are also contoured around the bend suggesting something flexible was pulling in all the way around. If it was something rigid the dent would be at the proudest part, but it has not.

On a dull day you won't see the damage too well. However once the sun comes out and you are looking at the car at anything other than 90°, it stands out a lot.

It is really hard to capture by photograph. I am using my phone though.


----------



## andy665

Kerr said:


> Paint readings are spot on all over the car.
> 
> The damage is more pronounced on the driver's side than the passagers side. However it is the same places both sides.
> 
> There is 3 or 4 bits either side and they are numerous ripples/distortion at each bit. The marks are also contoured around the bend suggesting something flexible was pulling in all the way around. If it was something rigid the dent would be at the proudest part, but it has not.
> 
> On a dull day you won't see the damage too well. However once the sun comes out and you are looking at the car at anything other than 90°, it stands out a lot.
> 
> It is really hard to capture by photograph. I am using my phone though.


It would be worth checking other A Class models - it might be a common thing on all of them - does not make it acceptable but it sounds like a strange kind of damage and more like a manufacturing defect


----------



## Kerr

andy665 said:


> It would be worth checking other A Class models - it might be a common thing on all of them - does not make it acceptable but it sounds like a strange kind of damage and more like a manufacturing defect


Looked at quite a few. None are the same. They are obvious and everyone has accepted they aren't right.

Here is a little picture. As I say they are difficult to picture on the phone, but here you can see one part of it.

Look slightly in front on the little rear window of the car. You can see the ripple looking directly and look at the refraction of the house window. There is 3 bits either side of the car like that and in areas that nothing is underneath. There is nothing under to spot weld or bond to that may cause distortion.




It doesn't help photobucket reduces the quality.


----------



## Alfieharley1

Kerr where are you at now? Any more correspondence. I would be ringing them every day I would now be sending a letter from a solicitor. Trust me bud the longer you leave this the more they get out of the smelly stuff. My blood would be boiling.


----------



## Kerr

Alfieharley1 said:


> Kerr where are you at now? Any more correspondence. I would be ringing them every day I would now be sending a letter from a solicitor. Trust me bud the longer you leave this the more they get out of the smelly stuff. My blood would be boiling.


Mercedes are dealing with the case directly. I've been asked to liase with the Customer Service manager directly and not the dealer or Arnold Clark customer services.

Monday evening the manager from Mercedes Customer sevices sent an email admitting liability and offering a warrantied repair with the quote for the bodyshop at £1354. There was no mention of the damaged wheels.

She mentioned she was out of the office on Tuesday.

I sent her an email saying I was pushing for a replacement new car, not half a new car to be repainted on Monday evening.

I then sent a further email early this afternoon to an update. Not heard anything back on this front yet.


----------



## Kash-Jnr

Hope you get it sorted mate, just read this.

Arnold Clark - useless.


----------



## Alfieharley1

Kerr said:


> Mercedes are dealing with the case directly. I've been asked to liase with the Customer Service manager directly and not the dealer or Arnold Clark customer services.
> 
> Monday evening the manager from Mercedes Customer sevices sent an email admitting liability and offering a warrantied repair with the quote for the bodyshop at £1354. There was no mention of the damaged wheels.
> 
> She mentioned she was out of the office on Tuesday.
> 
> I sent her an email saying I was pushing for a replacement new car, not half a new car to be repainted on Monday evening.
> 
> I then sent a further email early this afternoon to an update. Not heard anything back on this front yet.


Ok brill bud I would be fuming - if you can get her contact number I would also contact her from the signature of the emails.
I would just tell them that due to the incompency and the treatment you have now decided to hand the car back under defects and go else where. This will then get them moving to replace it else they would have lost a customer


----------



## MPS101

Apologies as I have only skimmed the thread.
I would either reject the car directly or through the finance company if it has finance as it is their property. Either that or take them to the small claims court to cover loss of residual value and the repair costs.
Both are more simplistic than people think and the law which I am not going to cover here as would take too long are with the customer.


----------



## Starbuck88

Any contact back from your email yesterday?


----------



## robertdon777

It sucks this does especially buying a New Car. The service level should be top notch and they should do anything they can to make it a pleasant experience.

The car was very expensive, the dealer is a premium brand- You should get Premium service.

This is like most things though today - Box shifting, once its out the door they don't care.

We go the extra mile for people at our work (Printers) and that's for jobs which are only a few quid. I treat people and give them a service that I would expect if I walked in somewhere, yes every business and person can have a bad day but its how they React and Solve the issue that matters....Poor Show from them so far, seems that you are having to do all the running.

Not right in one bit after spending +40K on a product.


----------



## RD55 DUN

Kerr said:


> I think that guy is on the Merc forum. They originally blamed him for the damage and refused his claim. Only later once the dealer replaced it did they say it was a manufacturing defect.


Im sure that is the same guy.


----------



## Kerr

Starbuck88 said:


> Any contact back from your email yesterday?


No nothing yet.

That's a couple of friendly emails with not as much as an acknowledgement in the last few days.

I'm free most of the day today, so I'll give her a call later on if she's not got back to me.

At least this she's in England and not Holland. My mobile bill was very high this month and will be next month too phoning Holland.


----------



## robertdon777

I think its best to talk to someone.

Lay out what you want A: In an Ideal World and B:As a slight Compromise

I think people deal with people better if there are options and you are not stuck in one mindset.

If it does go the repair way just make it clear that you want a repair that is Perfect (as perfect as a repair can be) And that it will be inspected by a private body shop/detailer after repair until its to your satisfaction.

I would expect some form of goodwill gesture after too, but that shouldn't come with you having to ask...


----------



## Starbuck88

I think some of us should start ringing the dealership saying we're interested in a particular car but word is getting around/heard rumours they don't care about customers once they've left the showroom...

What's their number? I'm up for a laugh...


----------



## Kerr

robertdon777 said:


> I think its best to talk to someone.
> 
> Lay out what you want A: In an Ideal World and B:As a slight Compromise
> 
> I think people deal with people better if there are options and you are not stuck in one mindset.
> 
> If it does go the repair way just make it clear that you want a repair that is Perfect (as perfect as a repair can be) And that it will be inspected by a private body shop/detailer after repair until its to your satisfaction.
> 
> I would expect some form of goodwill gesture after too, but that shouldn't come with you having to ask...


I was happy to talk with people, it was just when it all started going wrong and the dealer retracted liability, I knew keeping things in writing was needed for evidence.

I got an offer from Mercedes Customer care this week and I responded to make it perfectly clear what I expect. She's not answered that email yet.

The offer I've got on the table is a warrantied repair at the approved Mercedes bodyshop up my way. The bodyshop has a really good name and is recommended by Polished Bliss.

She did also say I'd be compensated for the inconvenience. No figures were mentioned.

I've put in more hours than I wish to admit fighting with the dealer, fighting Mercedes customer care and Arnold Clark.

I've also visited the dealer and various bodyshop for assessments to all back up the evidence.

So I've said nicely, rather than compensating me for all the inconvenience, put that money towards the cost of changing the cars.



Starbuck88 said:


> I think some of us should start ringing the dealership saying we're interested in a particular car but word is getting around/heard rumours they don't care about customers once they've left the showroom...
> 
> What's their number? I'm up for a laugh...


When I got the car, the dealer was the cheapest I could find.

A few people were really interested in doing a deal, but I talked them out of it.

Someone else on the Merc forum was very close to placing an order. He's was doing the deal over the phone from England. Now he's a bit too worried to go ahead.

Between here and the Merc forum, I'm sure we are over 7000 views so far. That's going to be a few potential customers reading that.


----------



## SBM

Kerr said:


> I was happy to talk with people, it was just when it all started going wrong and the dealer retracted liability, I knew keeping things in writing was needed for evidence.
> 
> I got an offer from Mercedes Customer care this week and I responded to make it perfectly clear what I expect. She's not answered that email yet.
> 
> The offer I've got on the table is a warrantied repair at the approved Mercedes bodyshop up my way. The bodyshop has a really good name and is recommended by Polished Bliss.
> 
> She did also say I'd be compensated for the inconvenience. No figures were mentioned.
> 
> I've put in more hours than I wish to admit fighting with the dealer, fighting Mercedes customer care and Arnold Clark.
> 
> I've also visited the dealer and various bodyshop for assessments to all back up the evidence.
> 
> So I've said nicely, rather than compensating me for all the inconvenience, put that money towards the cost of changing the cars.
> 
> When I got the car, the dealer was the cheapest I could find.
> 
> A few people were really interested in doing a deal, but I talked them out of it.
> 
> Someone else on the Merc forum was very close to placing an order. He's was doing the deal over the phone from England. Now he's a bit too worried to go ahead.
> 
> Between here and the Merc forum, I'm sure we are over 7000 views so far. That's going to be a few potential customers reading that.


If its any help at all I would not touch them with a barge pole... and you can tell them that...
Nothing against the cars as I have said on may threads on here the cars are great but If I was buying a car that was new enough to require dealership contact I would not touch Mercedes.

Our newest car is a Nissan Juke and so far the dealer - when we have had to deal with them have been fantastic. about to be a big test next week as we suspect a gearbox issue, the car is still under warranty and its going in next week for 3 days to be assessed.
We will see if they continue the great service they have provided so far...

Sub'd to this thread as I would like to see how this all turns out for you Kerr and I certainly hope it is to your satisfaction - It will be great if you can draw a line under this and start to enjoy that A45 thoroughly :thumb:


----------



## Starbuck88

SBM said:


> It will be great if you can draw a line under this and start to enjoy that A45 thoroughly :thumb:


Same from me, I hope you can get this sorted to your satisfaction so that you can enjoy what I imagine to be an absolutely monumental motor!

I like your colour combo you went for too, I know it was bought because you didn't want to wait and best price etc, is red and black wheels what you wanted?

I think Red is an amazing colour!


----------



## Kerr

Starbuck88 said:


> Same from me, I hope you can get this sorted to your satisfaction so that you can enjoy what I imagine to be an absolutely monumental motor!
> 
> I like your colour combo you went for too, I know it was bought because you didn't want to wait and best price etc, is red and black wheels what you wanted?
> 
> I think Red is an amazing colour!


I did want red, but I wanted the titanium wheels. The titanium wheels seem to be very rare on the A45 even though they are less than the black ones.

I had already decided that I wasn't going to go mental and tick too many boxes as the cost options are very excessive in cost and the amount of choice.

The only thing I wanted that my car hasn't is the upgraded stereo.

I've got the performance exhaust, performance steering wheel, red brakes, black wheels and sat nav.

I called into Mercedes this afternoon and the person dealing with the case in on holiday. A note was added to call me Monday.


----------



## Starbuck88

Kerr said:


> I did want red, but I wanted the titanium wheels. The titanium wheels seem to be very rare on the A45 even though they are less than the black ones.
> 
> I had already decided that I wasn't going to go mental and tick too many boxes as the cost options are very excessive in cost and the amount of choice.
> 
> The only thing I wanted that my car hasn't is the upgraded stereo.
> 
> I've got the performance exhaust, performance steering wheel, red brakes, black wheels and sat nav.
> 
> *I called into Mercedes this afternoon and the person dealing with the case in on holiday. A note was added to call me Monday*.


Nice of them to let you know this beforehand! Jeepers.

Does the exhaust make it sound louder?


----------



## ZAFBLOKE

Unless you have the means to record I would do all communication now in writing sticking to the facts and being official as regards to the law and stating clearly want you want to resolve this complaint.

If was me I would be doing the communication with the manufacturer but copying in other parties concerned.

That way you add to the evidence which will become key should this complaint turn legal 

You could also if you wish get the solicitor mentioned in another post here to send a solicitors letter as that will have his heading and may force them to take these matters more seriously 

A solicitors letter should not cost too much but could be worth it in terms of getting this resolved to your satisfaction.

Regards


----------



## uruk hai

Sorry to hear of the trouble you've had, sounds like a nightmare.

A family member works for a body repair centre and they have a contract for the Mercedes anti corrosion warranty and after what he told me I would never buy a Merc, not even a new one.


----------



## AMG-A45

uruk hai said:


> Sorry to hear of the trouble you've had, sounds like a nightmare.
> 
> A family member works for a body repair centre and they have a contract for the Mercedes anti corrosion warranty and after what he told me I would never buy a Merc, not even a new one.


Yes i was warned about Mercedes but i thought they were a decent company, how wrong was i ! (i will not go into my story on someones thread), they just are not the quality product they used to be !, i really feel for Kerr, i wouldn't want a new car that has had paint work done on it either.


----------



## Rundie

Same old.....stop messing and get an Independent Assessor, you are a 'numpty member of the public', ALL dealers and manufacturers treat you like a cu.. until you involve a professional.

Good luck if you decide to fight it alone, maybe you'll win but I had enough and given mine and others experiences my suggestion is the way forward unless you've got loads of time to waste.


----------



## uruk hai

Rundie said:


> Same old.....stop messing and get an Independent Assessor, you are a 'numpty member of the public', ALL dealers and manufacturers treat you like a cu.. until you involve a professional.


I think that's a very good and fair point, it's not just one particular brand. There are stories regarding many makes and dealers regarding people who have had terrible experiences similar to this.


----------



## 20vKarlos

Glad to see you posted this here Kerr! 

You'll get a lot more people on DW that are bothered by this, than you would have on the other forum I read yesterday! 

Personally, if it was me, I would go and park the car up at their dealers, with a sign inside the car that reads "BEFORE YOU PURCHASE FROM ARNOLD CLARK CALL ME FOR MY EXPERIENCE - 07*********" 

Park it on their land! But pick your space wisely! Then, head inside and give them the heads up, that you'll be leaving the car with them, until it's sorted. They are responsible for it once it's on their. 

I'd put a mini cam inside it and that'll cover you in case they break into it!


----------



## Rayaan

AMG-A45 said:


> Yes i was warned about Mercedes but i thought they were a decent company, how wrong was i ! (i will not go into my story on someones thread), they just are not the quality product they used to be !, i really feel for Kerr, i wouldn't want a new car that has had paint work done on it either.


Mercedes have dropped off a lot. 10 years ago my experience was ok, after my sales guy left 6 years ago, it's become worse for me to a point where I'd rather take the car to kwik fit as I get better service from the guys there in all honestly.


----------



## Kerr

Rundie said:


> Same old.....stop messing and get an Independent Assessor, you are a 'numpty member of the public', ALL dealers and manufacturers treat you like a cu.. until you involve a professional.
> 
> Good luck if you decide to fight it alone, maybe you'll win but I had enough and given mine and others experiences my suggestion is the way forward unless you've got loads of time to waste.


I've had independent bodyshops and their "approved" bodyshops give me their backing. The approved bodyshop is technically independent and the other their own repair centre.

As it stands at the moment, Mercedes themselves have admitted liability at the beginning of the week. That's a big step forward from where I was weeks ago.

That's all I can force with getting a further professional opinion. Now they've given me written proof that they are accepting responsibility, that now gives me the opportunity to thrash out a deal with them.

I'm not sure what powers they will have over the dealer, but I will wait and see what the progress is early next week.

It's a massive step forward from last week. If that doesn't work, then I'll be looking at my next option.


----------



## knightstemplar

Not to jump in on the thread but Mercedes Huddersfield were fantastic to deal with from the start and the car has been faultless for a year and a half, I wont go into how they bent over backwards to help me with living 150 miles from their dealership.coming from BMW the car is a step up in quality, just giving a perspective from a happy owner. Sorry to hear this about your car Kerr, awesome machine, just probably been unlucky with the transport and the dealer. Hope it gets sorted.


----------



## Rundie

Nice one, an 'approved body shop', leads me to believe they are considering a repair/bodge ?
I would cut your losses and insist on a replacement as it's brand new car or full refund otherwise I think you'll regret it. If they are offering you that then fair enough, if not and they play silly buggers then please consider my option as in my experience it's all they'll listen to :thumb:

Another funny point is that when I met with the manufacturers rep he commented on how good my thread and photos were on a certain forum, clearly they search for this sort of thing.



Kerr said:


> I've had independent bodyshops and their "approved" bodyshops give me their backing. The approved bodyshop is technically independent and the other their own repair centre.
> 
> As it stands at the moment, Mercedes themselves have admitted liability at the beginning of the week. That's a big step forward from where I was weeks ago.
> 
> That's all I can force with getting a further professional opinion. Now they've given me written proof that they are accepting responsibility, that now gives me the opportunity to thrash out a deal with them.
> 
> I'm not sure what powers they will have over the dealer, but I will wait and see what the progress is early next week.
> 
> It's a massive step forward from last week. If that doesn't work, then I'll be looking at my next option.


----------



## taylor8

^^You wont get a bodge at this bodyshop Kerr is talking about, But id deffo be pushing for a new car, that was the wifes answer too when i told her about this!


----------



## Kerr

Rundie said:


> Nice one, an 'approved body shop', leads me to believe they are considering a repair/bodge ?
> I would cut your losses and insist on a replacement as it's brand new car or full refund otherwise I think you'll regret it. If they are offering you that then fair enough, if not and they play silly buggers then please consider my option as in my experience it's all they'll listen to :thumb:
> 
> Another funny point is that when I met with the manufacturers rep he commented on how good my thread and photos were on a certain forum, clearly they search for this sort of thing.


The bodyshop named to do the job is Kinghorn. They have a great name, including Polished Bliss who give them a glowing review, and said it's the only bodyshop they'd recommend.

I've been at their premises and it looks nice. There is all sorts of awards for their workmanship and they are the approved bodyshop for many of the high end brands.

I've no doubt that they'll do as good as job as anyone. However it is a brand new car and it shouldn't need to have almost half the car resprayed.

Even if it is a top quality repair, when I come to sell the car, professionals will clock the repair and it will affect the value and desirability.

I am insisting on a new car. That was the last email I sent to woman earlier this week. She's not responded to it yet.

I don't know where the line is drawn where too much of a repair doesn't constitute a brand new car. Nobody seems to know the answer to that one.


----------



## Rundie

Kerr said:


> Even if it is a top quality repair, when I come to sell the car, professionals will clock the repair and it will affect the value and desirability.
> 
> I am insisting on a new car.


Glad to hear it, accept nothing less mate :thumb:


----------



## lofty

It's pretty unbelievable that a company with a turnover of almost £3billion and profit of close to a£100 million would fight a customer for the sake of a few grand. Some of these big companies never seem to look at the big picture and just try and make a quick profit at any cost. It's also bad show from Mercedes, but to be honest most of the German manufacturers have poor customer service.


----------



## Vossman

lofty said:


> It's pretty unbelievable that a company with a turnover of almost £3billion and profit of close to a£100 million would fight a customer for the sake of a few grand. Some of these big companies never seem to look at the big picture and just try and make a quick profit at any cost. It's also bad show from Mercedes, but to be honest most of the German manufacturers have poor customer service.


A friend of mine used to buy three cars a year from these, last time he also brought a twelve month old Zafira, one owner and low miles with a clear hpi, my friend was looking through the owners handbook when he came across a three grand repair bill for accident damage to the car, back to AC to confront them but they denied any damage at all and considering he paid top dollar for the car he was not impressed at all, he worked it out that he paid almost three thousand pounds more than he should have for a comparable car, he produced the repair bill and although AC then admitted that the car had been damaged my friend never got any money back or even a letter of apology, even though my friend spent almost 40k a year at AC for the past five or six years its nothing to them.


----------



## Rayaan

knightstemplar said:


> Not to jump in on the thread but Mercedes Huddersfield were fantastic to deal with from the start and the car has been faultless for a year and a half, I wont go into how they bent over backwards to help me with living 150 miles from their dealership.coming from BMW the car is a step up in quality, just giving a perspective from a happy owner. Sorry to hear this about your car Kerr, awesome machine, just probably been unlucky with the transport and the dealer. Hope it gets sorted.


Well atleast Huddersfield keep customers happy 150 miles away - don't seem too good on local customers. Hence, switched to Leeds!


----------



## Kerr

Before this I have never bought a Mercedes. I've always like many of their cars, but just never found a real reason to buy one. 

Mercedes have stated previously that the A45 was aimed at guys in their mid 30 early 40s to pull them into the brand. 

I'm at the lower end of their prime market who they were looking to induce and impress. 

They'll never retain customers if their dealers behave like this and they don't help one little bit. 

I'm quite surprised just how many people have come out and said they've also not been happy with Mercedes. It does appear they have some serious issues with quality of customer care.


----------



## Rayaan

Kerr said:


> Before this I have never bought a Mercedes. I've always like many of their cars, but just never found a real reason to buy one.
> 
> Mercedes have stated previously that the A45 was aimed at guys in their mid 30 early 40s to pull them into the brand.
> 
> I'm at the lower end of their prime market who they were looking to induce and impress.
> 
> They'll never retain customers if their dealers behave like this and they don't help one little bit.
> 
> I'm quite surprised just how many people have come out and said they've also not been happy with Mercedes. It does appear they have some serious issues with quality of customer care.


It's all hit and miss. Bet there's some out there chuffed with the service they've received because 1) either nothing has gone wrong or 2) because what did go wrong was very simple to sort out.

The Merc Dealer in York, Clifton Moor was quite good but perhaps it's because they wanted a sale?

I can deal with shoddy dealers before I've bought the car but if something happens during ownership, it just ruins the experience of owning. Customers only need one reason to leave, hence Merc are actually losing customers to other brands which focus more on customer care.

The ownership experience is of the salesman, the car and aftersales. If the product is good and the salesmen and aftersales are also good, customers will keep coming back time and time again. Take one look at Jag and Lexus, only a small proportion are new buyers (although this is increasing), most of them are loyal customers.

But then, Mercedes is a huge company, probably doesn't give 2 ****s if it loses a few customers here and there


----------



## ZAFBLOKE

lofty said:


> It's pretty unbelievable that a company with a turnover of almost £3billion and profit of close to a£100 million would fight a customer for the sake of a few grand. Some of these big companies never seem to look at the big picture and just try and make a quick profit at any cost. It's also bad show from Mercedes, but to be honest most of the German manufacturers have poor customer service.


That is the view of all businesses these days and driven from capitalism


----------



## andystevens

Arnolk Clark were on Watchdog recently. I also read a bad thread about them on another forum recently.


----------



## andy665

No company sells as many cars as Arnold Clark does without them basically being a decent company.

Yes ,some people will accept poor service but they'd soon be out of business if it was endemic in the business

Whilst not a positive incident at all, its a little unfair to say its the way the business operates


----------



## Kerr

andy665 said:


> No company sells as many cars as Arnold Clark does without them basically being a decent company.
> 
> Yes ,some people will accept poor service but they'd soon be out of business if it was endemic in the business
> 
> Whilst not a positive incident at all, its a little unfair to say its the way the business operates


There is lots of examples of shocking behaviour by them. Granted they sell lots of cars, but they also have far too many problems.

They get away with a lot as most people are really clueless when it comes to cars.

Going back to 2009, I bought a 3 month old Citroen C5 from them. It only had done a couple of thousand miles and had been owned by the dealership.

This car gave me endless trouble. It spent 18 weeks of my 18 month ownership in the garage, often doing the same jobs over again after they failed to do them correctly the first time. There was barely a month that I didn't need to go to the garage.

Being without a car for weeks at a time wasn't suitable at all. Neither was a C1 as a replacement for a C5.

Both the local Citroen dealers were Arnold Clark and both were awful. Not only were failing to do jobs, on a couple of occasions my car came back damaged. They did repair the damage when pulled up. They did try to sneak it through though knowing they had damaged the car.

After the catalogue of failures I rejected this car. I had to fight for this and get trading standards involved. It took long enough to get anywhere and it was getting serious with Trading Standards pushing the case.

The end result was Arnold Clark offered me forecourt value for the C5 on the basis that I bought another car from their network.

At this time my mileage had dropped considerably, so I was looking at bigger engined petrol cars. I viewed countless cars and many were unroadworthy. I'm talking high end Audi and BMWs with serious and obvious mechanical defects. They refused to replace the brake discs on an M3 even though they were gouged and below minimum thickness.

I viewed the 335i that I previously owned and agreed to take that. However there was conditions to the sale. They had replaced the front run flat tyres with budget tyres that didn't even have the correct speed rating. The rear tyres were also looking low and they were to be replaced too.

Later that week I got the call to say the car was ready. I asked what brand of tyres they fitted and it turned out that they hadn't changed the tyres. After a few phone calls they eventually agreed to change the tyres then called me back to say it was done this time.

I had to drive 130 miles to the dealer to collect the car only to find they had only changed the front tyres. They argued that the rears were fine. My insurance was changing over and other than the tyres, I was happy with the car.

After getting the car home and inspecting it in the light, the rear tyres were ruined. The inner edges were at the canvas. I knew they were reasonably low, but I didn't realise that low.

The car had passed its MOT the week before and they had put the tyres down as an advisory.

After some fighting, they reluctantly agreed to replace the tyres. They sent the tyres to another of their dealers closer to me.

When replacing the two tyres they managed to gouge the life out of two of the wheels. So after another fight they reluctantly agreed to refurbish the wheels. It was Arnold Clark's main customer service I was dealing with.

The wheels came back in a disgraceful condition. It looked as if they were painted by a rattle can, and to make it worse they painted the other two wheels so they'd all match! I was furious.

Arnold Clark refused to do anything now. They said they were good enough. Even their area manager came out and paid me a visit .

The wheels were mint when I got the car and was one of the main attractions to the car.

So back to Trading Standards to get them to force Arnold Clark to do their job again.

This time I did have an independent car engineer to inspect the car. He agreed the wheels were awful and said they weren't done well enough.

He also said that the absolute vast majority of the claims they have to deal with are from Arnold Clark. He was of the opinion that their conduct is about the very worst he's ever seen and was hugely common.

After a while Arnold Clark were forced to pay for the wheels to be refurbished correctly. They wouldn't have ever backed down if I didn't get Trading Standards involved in both the cases.

When getting my tyres replaced, I seen some very worrying practices. When breaking down the expensive service cost for a little Ford Fiesta, they justified the price as the car needed 7.5l of oil @£xx per litre. An old pensioner put her car in for a MOT and a service. The car catastrophically failed the MOT on loads of things and she was advised to scrap the car. They still carried out the service and charged her for it. I felt guilty listening to them mugging their customers. Customers who obviously didn't understand.

I know given my previous it sounds like utter madness to ever go back. However the last time I was held over a barrel and restricted with my options as these were used cars.

The Merc is brand new and I didn't expect to encounter the same issues again. Obviously any issues I would have been expecting to be covered by the warranty and protection of buying a new car. I didn't plan to use Arnold Clark for this.

I'm mad with myself over this. I feel such a fool for ignoring my own advice to other people.

Like I said previously, I was hoping that the Mercedes garages would have maintained the standard I would expect of a prestige dealer, and not that of Arnold Clark.

However I did know that had ruined Harry Fairbairn after buying their BMW garages.

The problem is Arnold Clark has a near monopoly of the dealer network in Scotland. You really do have a very limited choice unless you are willing to travel significant distances.

So based on my own experience of 3 cars, 5 or 6 different dealers and extensive contact with their main customer care department, I can safely voice my opinion that they are rotten to the core.


----------



## Deanoecosse

http://arnoldclark.150m.com/
Every garage will have complaints but Arnold Shark really are horrendous


----------



## uruk hai

After reading a portion of the previous thread I was thinking "why return to them if they're this bad", after reading the post from start to finish I believe I understand your problem.

You're in the unenviable position of being all but trapped when it comes to choice of supplier and this if ever it were needed shows the problems when ever there is a monopoly.

Such a shame as buying a car should always be a good experience and buying a brand new premium model from a brand who pitch themselves as very premium should be all but flawless and nothing less than a pleasure.


----------



## andy665

I hear what you are saying - we all know that sometimes there are issues, its how those issues are dealt with that separates the good from the bad

Personally, if I'd have had issues with a dealer group before I'd never go back under any circumstances - something I practice with a dealer group that is very strong in the area I live - no one should have to buy out of area to get good service but sometimes its worth it


----------



## ZAFBLOKE

Kerr said:


> There is lots of examples of shocking behaviour by them. Granted they sell lots of cars, but they also have far too many problems.
> 
> They get away with a lot as most people are really clueless when it comes to cars.
> 
> Going back to 2009, I bought a 3 month old Citroen C5 from them. It only had done a couple of thousand miles and had been owned by the dealership.
> 
> This car gave me endless trouble. It spent 18 weeks of my 18 month ownership in the garage, often doing the same jobs over again after they failed to do them correctly the first time. There was barely a month that I didn't need to go to the garage.
> 
> Being without a car for weeks at a time wasn't suitable at all. Neither was a C1 as a replacement for a C5.
> 
> Both the local Citroen dealers were Arnold Clark and both were awful. Not only were failing to do jobs, on a couple of occasions my car came back damaged. They did repair the damage when pulled up. They did try to sneak it through though knowing they had damaged the car.
> 
> After the catalogue of failures I rejected this car. I had to fight for this and get trading standards involved. It took long enough to get anywhere and it was getting serious with Trading Standards pushing the case.
> 
> The end result was Arnold Clark offered me forecourt value for the C5 on the basis that I bought another car from their network.
> 
> At this time my mileage had dropped considerably, so I was looking at bigger engined petrol cars. I viewed countless cars and many were unroadworthy. I'm talking high end Audi and BMWs with serious and obvious mechanical defects. They refused to replace the brake discs on an M3 even though they were gouged and below minimum thickness.
> 
> I viewed the 335i that I previously owned and agreed to take that. However there was conditions to the sale. They had replaced the front run flat tyres with budget tyres that didn't even have the correct speed rating. The rear tyres were also looking low and they were to be replaced too.
> 
> Later that week I got the call to say the car was ready. I asked what brand of tyres they fitted and it turned out that they hadn't changed the tyres. After a few phone calls they eventually agreed to change the tyres then called me back to say it was done this time.
> 
> I had to drive 130 miles to the dealer to collect the car only to find they had only changed the front tyres. They argued that the rears were fine. My insurance was changing over and other than the tyres, I was happy with the car.
> 
> After getting the car home and inspecting it in the light, the rear tyres were ruined. The inner edges were at the canvas. I knew they were reasonably low, but I didn't realise that low.
> 
> The car had passed its MOT the week before and they had put the tyres down as an advisory.
> 
> After some fighting, they reluctantly agreed to replace the tyres. They sent the tyres to another of their dealers closer to me.
> 
> When replacing the two tyres they managed to gouge the life out of two of the wheels. So after another fight they reluctantly agreed to refurbish the wheels. It was Arnold Clark's main customer service I was dealing with.
> 
> The wheels came back in a disgraceful condition. It looked as if they were painted by a rattle can, and to make it worse they painted the other two wheels so they'd all match! I was furious.
> 
> Arnold Clark refused to do anything now. They said they were good enough. Even their area manager came out and paid me a visit .
> 
> The wheels were mint when I got the car and was one of the main attractions to the car.
> 
> So back to Trading Standards to get them to force Arnold Clark to do their job again.
> 
> This time I did have an independent car engineer to inspect the car. He agreed the wheels were awful and said they weren't done well enough.
> 
> He also said that the absolute vast majority of the claims they have to deal with are from Arnold Clark. He was of the opinion that their conduct is about the very worst he's ever seen and was hugely common.
> 
> After a while Arnold Clark were forced to pay for the wheels to be refurbished correctly. They wouldn't have ever backed down if I didn't get Trading Standards involved in both the cases.
> 
> When getting my tyres replaced, I seen some very worrying practices. When breaking down the expensive service cost for a little Ford Fiesta, they justified the price as the car needed 7.5l of oil @£xx per litre. An old pensioner put her car in for a MOT and a service. The car catastrophically failed the MOT on loads of things and she was advised to scrap the car. They still carried out the service and charged her for it. I felt guilty listening to them mugging their customers. Customers who obviously didn't understand.
> 
> I know given my previous it sounds like utter madness to ever go back. However the last time I was held over a barrel and restricted with my options as these were used cars.
> 
> The Merc is brand new and I didn't expect to encounter the same issues again. Obviously any issues I would have been expecting to be covered by the warranty and protection of buying a new car. I didn't plan to use Arnold Clark for this.
> 
> I'm mad with myself over this. I feel such a fool for ignoring my own advice to other people.
> 
> Like I said previously, I was hoping that the Mercedes garages would have maintained the standard I would expect of a prestige dealer, and not that of Arnold Clark.
> 
> However I did know that had ruined Harry Fairbairn after buying their BMW garages.
> 
> The problem is Arnold Clark has a near monopoly of the dealer network in Scotland. You really do have a very limited choice unless you are willing to travel significant distances.
> 
> So based on my own experience of 3 cars, 5 or 6 different dealers and extensive contact with their main customer care department, I can safely voice my opinion that they are rotten to the core.


Agreed they are even known down south by dealers who do internal transfers of new stock vehicles, have travelled up their a couple of times with a trailer in tow to end up coming back empty.


----------



## Nanoman

andy665 said:


> I hear what you are saying - we all know that sometimes there are issues, its how those issues are dealt with that separates the good from the bad
> 
> Personally, if I'd have had issues with a dealer group before I'd never go back under any circumstances - something I practice with a dealer group that is very strong in the area I live - no one should have to buy out of area to get good service but sometimes its worth it


It's difficult to buy a car in Scotland that isn't from Arnold Clark though!

I've had loads of problems with both Mercedes garages in Glasgow (Stratstone). I would possibly consider buying another from Eastern in Edinburgh who get a good rep but would never use AC or Stratstone again.


----------



## andy665

Nanoman said:


> It's difficult to buy a car in Scotland that isn't from Arnold Clark though!
> 
> I've had loads of problems with both Mercedes garages in Glasgow (Stratstone). I would possibly consider buying another from Eastern in Edinburgh who get a good rep but would never use AC or Stratstone again.


Last new car I bought was from a highly recommended dealer over 200 miles away from where I lived, well worth the journey down as I had zero issues. The lack of issues was remembered long after the inconvenience o the journey was forgotten

You should not have to travel to guarantee good service but if needs must


----------



## Kerr

andy665 said:


> I hear what you are saying - we all know that sometimes there are issues, its how those issues are dealt with that separates the good from the bad
> 
> Personally, if I'd have had issues with a dealer group before I'd never go back under any circumstances - something I practice with a dealer group that is very strong in the area I live - no one should have to buy out of area to get good service but sometimes its worth it


As Nanoman says Arnold Clark have an extemely strong stranglehold on the car market in Scotland.

Living in Aberdeen we have a Mercedes garage and it's Arnold Clark. The next closest is Dundee and it's Arnold Clark. Then you've got Perth and that's Arnold Clark. The 4th nearest dealer is Inverness and that's Arnold Clark. The 5th closest is Grangemouth, need a guess who owns that?

How can that be allowed? That's hardly fair competition when there is no competition North of the central belt. If you live in the North of Scotland you could be the best part of 3.4-4 hours away from anything other than Arnold Clark Mercedes.

I really didn't want to buy the car from Arnold Clark, but I couldn't envisage getting myself into the hole I'm in.

Initially the garage did accept liability and made some effort to rectify the situation. It was only after we realised this wasn't an easy/cheap fix that the dealer contacted Arnold Clark Customer Sevices.

It appears Arnold Clark has forced the dealer's hand and told him to remove the liability he clearly admitted for long enough. The manager would never answer any questions why he accepted liability, then later retracted it. He later said that he hadn't changed his opinion. I guess that was supposed to suggest he still agreed that it was transportation damage, but Arnold Clark were forcing his hand.

Like we all know, you get good and bad parts of every network. I had no idea that the manager of Dundee appears to have absolutely no authority. I would have thought a manager would be left to manage the branch as he sees fit. It seems clear that Arnold Clark don't allow their manager to be a manager and do boss them about.

I'm also really disappointed be Mercedes in their unwillingness to help. Their call centre in Holland is nothing short of useless.

I've got everything riding on the girl from Milton Keynes now. We had a chat the Friday before last and she seemed nice and at least appeared to understand the situation. She then promised a call back on Monday, then didn't. I chased her up and at least she admitted responsibility and liability, then made an offer how to resolve the situation. At least it was a start.

However she didn't get back in contact with me for the rest of the week. I hope this wasn't a sign of things to come. She didn't appear to be like that.

I appreciate that people are busy, but after this case dragging on for months, I do really expect some priority when it comes to their workload. Taking 7 days to respond is far too much in my opinion.

I'll chase her up tomorrow and hopefully I'll get somewhere.


----------



## andystevens

andy665 said:


> No company sells as many cars as Arnold Clark does without them basically being a decent company.
> 
> Yes ,some people will accept poor service but they'd soon be out of business if it was endemic in the business
> 
> Whilst not a positive incident at all, its a little unfair to say its the way the business operates


They can't be that good otherwise they wouldn't have occupied space on Watchdog.

I was at a car show today & a guy I spoke to was from Scotland & he was saying where he had bought some of his passed cars & it was Arnold Clark. I said they had received some poor feedback & he admitted they wern'y much cop but said they were the only MG dealer local back in the days he was buying the cars so had little choice.


----------



## andy665

andystevens said:


> They can't be that good otherwise they wouldn't have occupied space on Watchdog.
> 
> I was at a car show today & a guy I spoke to was from Scotland & he was saying where he had bought some of his passed cars & it was Arnold Clark. I said they had received some poor feedback & he admitted they wern'y much cop but said they were the only MG dealer local back in the days he was buying the cars so had little choice.


Likewise they can't be all bad as they retain plenty of manufacturers franchises and sell tens of thousands of cars every year

In NO way am I defending Arnold Clark - working in the industry myself I'm probably more aware of their reputation than most

Its about time people started voting with their wallets - if they are that bad then simply buy elsewhere - its not as if anyone living in Scotland HAS to buy cars in Scotland is it!

The only thing companies with poor service will take note of is losing their franchises or their sales (and service business) falling though the floor, as customers we can do very little about the former but most definitely can with the latter


----------



## andystevens

OK. Makes no difference to me lol. I'm only contributing to the thread on info I hear though in reality I couldn't care less.


----------



## Bero

andy665 said:


> Its about time people started voting with their wallets - if they are that bad then simply buy elsewhere - its not as if anyone living in Scotland HAS to buy cars in Scotland is it!





Kerr said:


> ..... If you live in the North of Scotland you could be the best part of 3.4-4 hours away from anything other than Arnold Clark Mercedes.


I went from Aberdeen to Nottingham for mine! :lol: of course If I had the same problem as Kerr it would be a lot more hassle to sort out!


----------



## andy665

Bero said:


> I went from Aberdeen to Nottingham for mine! :lol: of course If I had the same problem as Kerr it would be a lot more hassle to sort out!


Thats always the isn't it - its crazy - its really not that difficult to keep a customer happy but dealerships / manufacturers seem to excel at screwing it up


----------



## Kerr

Fair enough you can travel to buy a car. I'd say that's far more important when buying a used car, as obviously the quality and the prices of them vary hugely. New cars this shouldn't be the case. 

You've not only got to consider just the original purchase of the car. I've never had a car that hasn't had a fault of some sort, so I knew I would always be back at the dealer for servicing or repairs. 

You simply can't justify driving for hours every time you've got an issue.


I got an email this morning from Customer Care. She was out of the office last week. She'll look into the case and get back to me this afternoon. Fingers crossed again.


----------



## Starbuck88

Kerr said:


> I got an email this morning from Customer Care. She was out of the office last week. She'll look into the case and get back to me this afternoon. Fingers crossed again.


Fingers Crossed Kerr, and Toes and Legs and Arms and Hair....


----------



## bradleymarky

After 7 weeks or so i`d be camping outside the dealership until i got what i wanted. I think you are being far too polite Kerr.


----------



## johanr77

Kerr said:


> You simply can't justify driving for hours every time you've got an issue.


If it's a new car you wouldn't though, just take it to the local dealer.

Granted this particular instance the dealer you got the car from specifically did something to the car to damage it so they would have to deal with that issue but anything else you could just take to the Aberdeen branch.


----------



## Kerr

johanr77 said:


> If it's a new car you wouldn't though, just take it to the local dealer.
> 
> Granted this particular instance the dealer you got the car from specifically did something to the car to damage it so they would have to deal with that issue but anything else you could just take to the Aberdeen branch.


The local dealer is Arnold Clark.

The 5 nearest Mercedes dealers are all Arnold Clark.

You are left without much option unless you are wiling to travel to Edinburgh.


----------



## Nanoman

Kerr, have you tried tweeting Arnold Clark and Mercedes about it? I tweeted negatively about Stratstone and within a day they had looked my details on the system and both Glasgow dealership principles called me personally to discuss it. 

Just make sure you include their twitter handle in when tweeting them, although arnold clark don't seem to have grasped this whole twitter thing so it's not easy. @arnoldclark @achelpteam @mercedesbenz @mercedesbenzuk

It looks like someone has registered @dundeemercedes today as a parody account. That could get interesting


----------



## Kerr

It wasn't me about the Twitter account. I've got zero understanding of Twitter and I'm not a member. 

Maybe someone can link this page and the Merc website page for further exposure. 

I did send links to the dealer, Arnold Clark and Mercedes for the thread on the Merc forum. They'll know exactly what has been said if they've read it. 

Between here and there, it's over 10,000 views and a lot of potential customers. 

I've got a log in for Facebook and did post on Mercedes page. Each time the post was removed within seconds. They must be very active. 

I did get a message to ask for all the details and they would pass the case on. I gave my details and heard nothing. 

I've not looked at Arnold Clark's profiles yet.


----------



## andy665

Social media is definitely the way to get under a lot of businesses skins and force a reaction- as a customer you should not have to do this - often I feel ashamed about saying this is the industry I work in - my saving grace is that most of my work is with a brand that would never allow this to happen


----------



## Starbuck88

Any news today yet? It's getting on a bit and quite honestly taking the **** that this isn't a priority for them to sort out at Mercedes to be honest.


----------



## Kerr

Nothing yet today. Last week her email was sent 20.30. It was 9.30am this morning she said she would be checking on progress.

Quite often when I was in contact with the dealer, it would take a week of reminders to get a response. Not sure if they'll play the same game with Mercedes.


----------



## Starbuck88

Kerr said:


> Nothing yet today. Last week her email was sent 20.30. It was 9.30am this morning she said she would be checking on progress.
> 
> Quite often when I was in contact with the dealer, it would take a week of reminders to get a response. Not sure if they'll play the same game with Mercedes.


Can you call her and keep pushing?


----------



## Kerr

Starbuck88 said:


> Can you call her and keep pushing?


I've got to be a bit fair with her. She's new to the case and no doubt has to find out the facts of it.

I've been nice, but been clear what I expect.

Nobody has been helpful at all so far. The last thing I want to do is get on the wrong side of someone who appears to be trying to help.

She's at least shown responsibility and liability so far.

She knows that I'm desperate for a conclusion. Hopefully last week was just a minor blip and she will be quicker this week.


----------



## Starbuck88

Kerr said:


> I've got to be a bit fair with her. She's new to the case and no doubt has to find out the facts of it.
> 
> I've been nice, but been clear what I expect.
> 
> Nobody has been helpful at all so far. The last thing I want to do is get on the wrong side of someone who appears to be trying to help.
> 
> She's at least shown responsibility and liability so far.
> 
> She knows that I'm desperate for a conclusion. Hopefully last week was just a minor blip and she will be quicker this week.


I would have thought for someone pushing for a new car that she'd have at least emailed you or called you to say I'm still gathering facts? If she was being efficient.

The longer this drags on the more hassle it's causing for you ultimately.

You don't need to be angry or an **** with her, just a quick call to see if there has been any updates due to you waiting this long for any sort of progress to your brand new £40k car.

More often than not, she may have a little bit to tell you, such as, I've been in contact with such and such...

Even if she can't give anything (which to me would mean she hasn't done 'anything' so far), it'll at least give you peace of mind that she is on the case (or maybe not) and not doing what the others have been, just because she sounds like a nice person doesn't mean behind the scenes she's not playing from the same rule book.

In these cases it's all about the communication and I'm afraid unless you push and ask for it, they aren't going to be over willing to contact you.


----------



## Kerr

An email just arrived. 

She's waiting on the retailer to come back with a buy back figure for the car. 

She also asks if it would be an A45 with as near the same spec as possible I'd be looking for. 

I'm not counting my chickens yet, but that sounds a bit more promising.


----------



## Starbuck88

Kerr said:


> An email just arrived.
> 
> She's waiting on the retailer to come back with a buy back figure for the car.
> 
> She also asks if it would be an A45 with as near the same spec as possible I'd be looking for.
> 
> I'm not counting my chickens yet, but that sounds a bit more promising.


What are the chances of that ha!

Brilliant...this finally sounds like things are happening for you!


----------



## andystevens

Kerr said:


> An email just arrived.
> 
> She's waiting on the retailer to come back with a buy back figure for the car.
> 
> She also asks if it would be an A45 with as near the same spec as possible I'd be looking for.
> 
> I'm not counting my chickens yet, but that sounds a bit more promising.


I know of a similar story to this re buy back on a new £110.000 LWB Range Rover Vogue. It broke down 3 times & caused much inconvenience in a short period of ownership. Landrover eventually agreed to buy the car back & order a replacement but the owner was told he would have to suffer the depreciation. He is taking them to court!


----------



## Rayaan

Kerr said:


> An email just arrived.
> 
> She's waiting on the retailer to come back with a buy back figure for the car.
> 
> She also asks if it would be an A45 with as near the same spec as possible I'd be looking for.
> 
> I'm not counting my chickens yet, but that sounds a bit more promising.


Sounds better than usual but Im not liking the sound of "buy back figure". It sounds like they're just going to rip you off! I thought they'd just exchange it for another one like some dealers do?


----------



## lofty

I'm guessing they'll offer you trade price for the car, then expect you to put in the extra for a new car. It won't be the first time it's happened. Hope I'm wrong.


----------



## Kerr

You guys sure know how to depress someone. 

She said she'll get back to me tomorrow. 

There has never been a mention of me paying towards the car. I've been clear that I don't expect to have to. 

I would have thought if that would be the kind of offer on the table, she would have asked me prior to starting that kind of deal. 

Obviously a brand new car depreciates really heavily at the start and trade is value will be significantly lower, she couldn't possible turn around and tell me I've got thousands of more pounds to pay. 

I'm not willing to pump a lot money into the deal.

When she asked about spec, I've said I'm willing to be flexible on the colour, but 19" wheels, possible the titanium ones, the performance steering wheel and the performance exhaust were all must haves. 

I said that I'd like red calipers like I have, but that's not a deal breaker. 

The standard stereo isn't the best, so I said I would like the Harmon Kardon stereo hoping it might be chucked in as the sorry.

The thought of being thousands of pounds out of pocket isn't so positive. 

I hope she didn't mean that. You simply can't sell a person a brand new damaged car, then expect them to foot the bill to change.


----------



## Alan W

Rayaan said:


> Sounds better than usual but Im not liking the sound of "buy back figure". It sounds like they're just going to rip you off! I thought they'd just exchange it for another one like some dealers do?


They (MB) may just be wanting to find out what it will cost them to resolve the issues, ie the difference in price between the buy back figure and the cost of a similar new car. The difference will be their cost in pounds sterling and only then will they know if they are prepared to spend that much and go down that route to close out the issues.

Things are looking up at last Kerr and I hope you get a resolve that will allow you to move on and finally enjoy your new car. 

Alan W


----------



## andy665

Kerr said:


> You guys sure know how to depress someone.
> 
> She said she'll get back to me tomorrow.
> 
> There has never been a mention of me paying towards the car. I've been clear that I don't expect to have to.
> 
> I would have thought if that would be the kind of offer on the table, she would have asked me prior to starting that kind of deal.
> 
> Obviously a brand new car depreciates really heavily at the start and trade is value will be significantly lower, she couldn't possible turn around and tell me I've got thousands of more pounds to pay.
> 
> I'm not willing to pump a lot money into the deal.
> 
> When she asked about spec, I've said I'm willing to be flexible on the colour, but 19" wheels, possible the titanium ones, the performance steering wheel and the performance exhaust were all must haves.
> 
> I said that I'd like red calipers like I have, but that's not a deal breaker.
> 
> The standard stereo isn't the best, so I said I would like the Harmon Kardon stereo hoping it might be chucked in as the sorry.
> 
> The thought of being thousands of pounds out of pocket isn't so positive.
> 
> I hope she didn't mean that. You simply can't sell a person a brand new damaged car, then expect them to foot the bill to change.


It would be absolutely standard practice to expect thee customer to contribute something based purely on the fact that you have had use of a vehicle - albeit one that you are not happy with

You'd expect it to be minimal or indeed waived in your case but I would not necessarily expect it - I think that Arnold Clark and Mercedes should jointly foot any loss but they would be within their legal (if not moral) rights to expect something from you


----------



## m4rkymark

I've read the hK stereos aren't that good? Quite a few people seem to think they aren't worth the extra upgrade. I haven't heard one in use so no idea if this is true.


----------



## m4rkymark

andy665 said:


> It would be absolutely standard practice to expect thee customer to contribute something based purely on the fact that you have had use of a vehicle - albeit one that you are not happy with
> 
> You'd expect it to be minimal or indeed waived in your case but I would not necessarily expect it - I think that Arnold Clark and Mercedes should jointly foot any loss but they would be within their legal (if not moral) rights to expect something from you


I would disagree with that - if the goods aren't fit for purpose you shouldn't be made to pay anything when being offered a replacement even though you have had use of them. The company should be obliged to replace them and I'm sure the SOG act confirms this.


----------



## Rayaan

Im sure standard practice is - "if the new car is faulty, itll just be replaced".

The fact that it happened on delivery means that OP had no use of it at that time. Therefore, its in Mercedes best interest to get the problem sorted quickly so they don't lose as much as OP would end up using the car less.

How a few ££££'s makes a difference to a company like Mercedes is beyond me. They'll probably repair and sell it and then claim losses anyway


----------



## andy665

But if those goods have been used?

Not exactly like an iron that doesn't iron or a kettle that does not boil water

There is no clear legal position but I'm certainly aware of literally hundreds of cases where the fact that the vehicle has been able to be used for its intended purpose will be taken into account - I'm not saying its fair and Rayaan makes a very good point that it is the dealer / manufacturer that have dragged out the timeframe for resolution 

Another good point that Rayaan makes it that the car will absolutely surface as an Approved Used car once its been repairedl

I'm not and do not profess to be a legal expert but I have worked with manufacturers / dealers for over 20 years


----------



## m4rkymark

Andy I'm no legal expert either however the law doesn't differentiate between a broken kettle and a car, one cheap/one expensive, which is not fit for purpose or as stated.

There absolutely is a clear legal position on this - it's the sale of goods act which the retailer must abide by.


----------



## Nanoman

m4rkymark said:


> I would disagree with that - if the goods aren't fit for purpose you shouldn't be made to pay anything when being offered a replacement even though you have had use of them. The company should be obliged to replace them and I'm sure the SOG act confirms this.





m4rkymark said:


> Andy I'm no legal expert either however the law doesn't differentiate between a broken kettle and a car, one cheap/one expensive, which is not fit for purpose or as stated.
> 
> There absolutely is a clear legal position on this - it's the sale of goods act which the retailer must abide by.


Is that the same sale of goods act that gives the vendor the reasonable opportunity to repair the goods? Yes, I thought so. Under SOG you cannot demand a replacement car/kettle without giving them the opportunity to repair the fault. Also, for what purpose is the car not fit?


----------



## Kerr

Nanoman said:


> Is that the same sale of goods act that gives the vendor the reasonable opportunity to repair the goods? Yes, I thought so. Under SOG you cannot demand a replacement car/kettle without giving them the opportunity to repair the fault. Also, for what purpose is the car not fit?


I had given them the chance to repair. They opted and failed with the PDR guy away back at the start.

The garage don't really want to paint the car. They offered compensation to avoid repairing it.

Buying brand new you have a right for the product to be in satisfactory condition. Having dents on a new car isn't satisfactory condition.

I've seen in the past that Mercedes have charged lease drivers an absolute fortune to repair dents and damage in cars. They can't sell me a damaged car as new when they don't accept used cars back with what could be argued as wear and tear.

The issue with spray painting a car is that it won't quite be like new. Certain colours will be noticeable to many people and it will means the customer will suffer financial loss.

A damaged repair car is worth less than a perfect one.

So you can argue it won't be painted to new condition and the garage agreed themselves it would likely be noticeable.

The term satisfactory condition is very open. Neither a dented car or a few shades of red adds up to new condition to me.

I wonder that if/when this car goes that it will be sold with the damage. I can just imagine someone else missing it first time around, then noticing it later on, they getting the "this is a used car sir" excuse.


----------



## m4rkymark

Nanoman said:


> Is that the same sale of goods act that gives the vendor the reasonable opportunity to repair the goods? Yes, I thought so. Under SOG you cannot demand a replacement car/kettle without giving them the opportunity to repair the fault. Also, for what purpose is the car not fit?


are you being serious? you don't think a new car which has dents over it on both sides means its not fit for purpose? it wasn't as described as they didn't mention the dents and it is not of satisfactory quality. I don't see the goods fitting any of those descriptions.

If you find the goods are faulty you DO NOT need to let them repair it - if you want it replaced you are within your rights to tell them you want a refund. yes you need to find fault within a reasonable period of time but that's generally accepted as 3-4 weeks.

whats interesting as well is that because the purchase isn't 6 months old the retailer needs to prove the fault wasn't there when it was bought - the onus shouldn't be on Kerr.

I suspect people accept all sorts of shoddy service, like Andy mentions, because they don't know the law is behind them or because they want it sorted out and are happy to walk away with a deal which means they loose a few quid but aren't saddled with a car which is a bag of bolts.


----------



## andy665

m4rkymark said:


> are you being serious? you don't think a new car which has dents over it on both sides means its not fit for purpose? it wasn't as described as they didn't mention the dents and it is not of satisfactory quality. I don't see the goods fitting any of those descriptions.
> 
> If you find the goods are faulty you DO NOT need to let them repair it - if you want it replaced you are within your rights to tell them you want a refund. yes you need to find fault within a reasonable period of time but that's generally accepted as 3-4 weeks.
> 
> whats interesting as well is that because the purchase isn't 6 months old the retailer needs to prove the fault wasn't there when it was bought - the onus shouldn't be on Kerr.
> 
> I suspect people accept all sorts of shoddy service, like Andy mentions, because they don't know the law is behind them or because they want it sorted out and are happy to walk away with a deal which means they loose a few quid but aren't saddled with a car which is a bag of bolts.


Sadly it is a grey area - especially fit for purpose - technically a car is bought to travel from A to B and Kerr Car is capable of doing that

What surely cannot be denied thigh is that the goods are not of a satisfactory quality

Many businesses I think drag things out in the hope / expectation that the customer will simply give up or accept a lesser offer than they are really entitled to - I doubt Kerr falls in to that category


----------



## lofty

The sale of goods act is good in principle but there are too many grey areas. How many times do you have to let them try and fix it? What is fit for purpose? A kettle that doesn't boil water is not fit for purpose, a car with mismatched paint or dents can still be used for getting from A to B, so is it fit for purpose? I'm in no way agreeing with the dealer here btw, their attitude stinks but rejecting cars is not as straight forward as many think, it seems the more you spend the harder it is to have it replaced. Its a pity John Lewis don't sell cars 

Sorry for repeating andy665, took me half an hour to write that as had to make the wife a cuppa


----------



## CoOkIeMoNsTeR

It isn't just Mercedes or Arnold Clark but their procedures for dealing with this is awful beyond defence. Nobody should have to accept a new car with a substantial defect on principle. I bought a 9 and a half year old car which I found faults with that should have been picked up on during the cars checks which the manufacturer require the dealer undertake to be able to sell it as approved used. Said manufacturers PR department were not very happy when I sent them the independent report stating 32 separate faults that the 130 point check didn't pick up on. They also weren't happy when the valuation report came through with the cost to fix it.

They did it for me though and I'm very happy with my car and it's now nearly 10 years old so I can't understand why Merc and AC are being so resistive. Well I can, but they're not gunna win here and frankly more customers should be like the OP and kick up a fuss about it.


----------



## Starbuck88

I'd buy a car from Amazon if they did it, at least that way if I wanted it replacing, they'd deliver me a new one even before they received the old one back! ha!

I'm going to go with what the other chap said a page back (Alan W). I'm expecting her getting this 'figure' to see what it's going to cost 'Mercedes' or the Dealer to get him into a new car and compare it to a repair. 

With how much can be written off on accounts, I'm expecting this to go Kerrs way. 

Plus I''d be willing to bet that they will be selling Kerrs Damaged car on without doing any repair work to it. So they'll make the money back.


----------



## Nanoman

m4rkymark said:


> are you being serious? you don't think a new car which has dents over it on both sides means its not fit for purpose? it wasn't as described as they didn't mention the dents and it is not of satisfactory quality. I don't see the goods fitting any of those descriptions.


 It's fit for purpose. It's not as described due to damage*. There's no question of fitness for purpose here.

*Caveat: There's a question about whether the damage was present on delivery which complicates things.


m4rkymark said:


> If you find the goods are faulty you DO NOT need to let them repair it - if you want it replaced you are within your rights to tell them you want a refund. yes you need to find fault within a reasonable period of time but that's generally accepted as 3-4 weeks.


Absolute rubbish. The seller has rights too you know. You're talking nonsense. Repair or replacement can be requested (the seller can choose which to choose: repair or replace). You are using replace/repair/refund interchangeably. They are 3 different things. Likewise the seller can decline to repair or replace and can choose to refund minus a reasonable value for use of the goods.


m4rkymark said:


> whats interesting as well is that because the purchase isn't 6 months old the retailer needs to prove the fault wasn't there when it was bought - the onus shouldn't be on Kerr.


More nonsense. This isn't a fault occurring. This is damage which has happened after Kerr had an opportunity to inspect the car upon delivery. Whether the damage was there before Kerr drove away from the showroom or not is still up for debate. Whether Kerr had a 'reasonable opportunity to inspect the goods' is also up for debate.


m4rkymark said:


> I suspect people accept all sorts of shoddy service, like Andy mentions, because *they don't know the law* is behind them or because they want it sorted out and are happy to walk away with a deal which means they loose a few quid but aren't saddled with a car which is a bag of bolts.


Ha ha ha ha. Try familiarising yourself with the act which you are discussing. Here is the link... http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54

There's no point in giving nonsense advice to Kerr if you don't know the act you're clearly not very familiar with.


----------



## Sicskate

I've only read the first few pages and skimmed through the rest... Have you posted any pictures of the damage up?


----------



## SteveTDCi

Nanoman said:


> It's fit for purpose. It's not as described due to damage*. There's no question of fitness for purpose here.
> 
> *Caveat: There's a question about whether the damage was present on delivery which complicates things.
> 
> Absolute rubbish. The seller has rights too you know. You're talking nonsense. Repair or replacement can be requested (the seller can choose which to choose: repair or replace). You are using replace/repair/refund interchangeably. They are 3 different things. Likewise the seller can decline to repair or replace and can choose to refund minus a reasonable value for use of the goods.
> 
> More nonsense. This isn't a fault occurring. This is damage which has happened after Kerr had an opportunity to inspect the car upon delivery. Whether the damage was there before Kerr drove away from the showroom or not is still up for debate. Whether Kerr had a 'reasonable opportunity to inspect the goods' is also up for debate.
> 
> Ha ha ha ha. Try familiarising yourself with the act which you are discussing. Here is the link... http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54
> 
> There's no point in giving nonsense advice to Kerr if you don't know the act you're clearly not very familiar with.


Great post, you clearly understand the act and have no doubt had dealings with it from the seller side


----------



## Cookies

Just read the whole thing Kerr. Good luck buddy. You've got this one under control, so just remain calm and composed and stick to your guns. 

All the best buddy. 

Cooks


----------



## Nanoman

SteveTDCi said:


> Great post, you clearly understand the act and have no doubt had dealings with it from the seller side


Have been both sides of the sales counter selling goods and services including in the motor trade at various times in my life.

I don't claim to know it like a consumer law professional but I have actually read it a few times (unlike some of the armchair experts on internet forums).

SOGA uses the word 'reasonable' 40 times. This alone is a massive problem.

What's a 'reasonable' time to inspect a car (Section 34)? In a fully lit showroom dedicated for the purpose is 10 mins, an hour, 2 hours 'reasonable'? Or is it 'reasonable' to force 'damage' claims upon the seller minutes, hours, days, weeks after it was driven away? The law is mainly on the side of the buyer but does also protect the seller.

Even if it is 'definite' transporter damage can the dealer create 'reasonable doubt' that the damage happened after it left the dealer i.e. Kerr sent it to get detailed by someone who put it on a car transporter and caused the damage? That's the kind of **** the seller's lawyer can come out with if it got to court.

At the end of the day section 35 appears to be clear that Kerr has 'accepted' the goods. That technically suggests the damage wasn't on it or that he was happy to accept the goods in the state.

Section 48A only applies if the goods do not conform to the contract at time of sale. This is up for debate and needs to be determined to decide what/if any rights to repair/replacement/refund Kerr has.

The whole 'six months to prove the fault wasn't there' does not apply in all cases and certainly doesn't apply to 'damage'.

In short I think Kerr has to prove that the damage was present prior to him accepting the goods. Even then I can't see anything in the act about withdrawing acceptance. Even if Kerr proves it was there before acceptance I'm not sure how Kerr can prove he wasn't aware of the damage and hadn't agreed to accept it like that. e.g. the dealer might have offered him the deal based on the car having 'minor damage' and the dealer might have pointed it out. Kerr might have decided the deal was good enough to accept then realised that the repair was much more expensive than he expected and is now trying to wriggle out of it.

FYI - I'm playing devil's advocate here and in no way am I saying Kerr is attempting to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. I'm just pointing out some of the things that might pop up if this gets messy.


----------



## m4rkymark

Nanoman said:


> It's fit for purpose. It's not as described due to damage*. There's no question of fitness for purpose here.
> 
> *Caveat: There's a question about whether the damage was present on delivery which complicates things.


I have assumed the damage was there given kerr has pictures of the car 24 hours after it was delivered which shows the damage.



Nanoman said:


> Absolute rubbish. The seller has rights too you know. You're talking nonsense. Repair or replacement can be requested (the seller can choose which to choose: repair or replace). You are using replace/repair/refund interchangeably. They are 3 different things. Likewise the seller can decline to repair or replace and can choose to refund minus a reasonable value for use of the goods.


go and read section 48A of the act. the buyer can rescind the contract and does not have to allow the seller to repair the goods. what they are obviously trying to do is offer him a reduction in price as per 48A 2b(I) and 48C 1a.

the act states:-

This section applies if-
(a) the buyer deals as consumer or, in Scotland, there is a consumer contract in which the buyer is a consumer, and

(b) the goods do not conform to the contract of sale at the time of delivery.

(2) If this section applies, the buyer has the right-

(b) under and in accordance with section 48C below-

(i) to require the seller to reduce the purchase price of the goods to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or

(ii) to rescind the contract with regard to the goods in question.

48C as below.

If section 48A above applies, the buyer may-

(a) require the seller to reduce the purchase price of the goods in question to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or

(b) rescind the contract with regard to those goods,

if the condition in subsection (2) below is satisfied.

(2) The condition is that-

(a) by virtue of section 48B(3) above the buyer may require neither repair nor replacement of the goods; or

(b) the buyer has required the seller to repair or replace the goods, but the seller is in breach of the requirement of section 48B(2)(a) above to do so within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the buyer.

(3) For the purposes of this Part, if the buyer rescinds the contract, any reimbursement to the buyer may be reduced to take account of the use he has had of the goods since they were delivered to him.



Nanoman said:


> More nonsense. This isn't a fault occurring. This is damage which has happened after Kerr had an opportunity to inspect the car upon delivery. Whether the damage was there before Kerr drove away from the showroom or not is still up for debate. Whether Kerr had a 'reasonable opportunity to inspect the goods' is also up for debate.


Due to the goods not conforming to the contract of sale at the time of delivery the law actually states "_For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) above goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date._"

this means it is assumed that for the first 6 months of the contract that if an issue appears with the goods then it is up to the seller to prove they were not there at the time of the sale.

what I didn't realise is you might be forced to pay for use of the goods whilst you had the use of them.


----------



## andystevens

Kerr said:


> I had given them the chance to repair. They opted and failed with the PDR guy away back at the start.
> 
> The garage don't really want to paint the car. They offered compensation to avoid repairing it.
> 
> Buying brand new you have a right for the product to be in satisfactory condition. Having dents on a new car isn't satisfactory condition.
> 
> I've seen in the past that Mercedes have charged lease drivers an absolute fortune to repair dents and damage in cars. They can't sell me a damaged car as new when they don't accept used cars back with what could be argued as wear and tear.
> 
> The issue with spray painting a car is that it won't quite be like new. Certain colours will be noticeable to many people and it will means the customer will suffer financial loss.
> 
> A damaged repair car is worth less than a perfect one.
> 
> So you can argue it won't be painted to new condition and the garage agreed themselves it would likely be noticeable.
> 
> The term satisfactory condition is very open. Neither a dented car or a few shades of red adds up to new condition to me.
> 
> I wonder that if/when this car goes that it will be sold with the damage. I can just imagine someone else missing it first time around, then noticing it later on, they getting the "this is a used car sir" excuse.


This is exactly the conversation I had with Ford CRC when I bought my new ST though I only had a tiny blemish in the paint, they wanted to paint the bonnet. I said no way & took a financial incentive!!


----------



## Nanoman

m4rkymark said:


> I have assumed (the most important part of the debate) .... blah ... nonsense ... blah use of them.


You're talking so much mince I'm going to start selling burgers!

Try reading your own post.


> 48CReduction of purchase price or rescission of contract
> 
> 
> (1)If section 48A above applies, the buyer may-
> (a)require the seller to reduce the purchase price of the goods in question to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or
> (b)rescind the contract with regard to those goods,if the condition in subsection (2) below is satisfied.
> (2)*The condition is that-*
> (a)by virtue of section 48B(3) above the buyer may require neither repair nor replacement of the goods; or
> (b)*the buyer has required the seller to repair or replace the goods, but the seller is in breach of the requirement of section 48B(2)(a) above to do so within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the buyer.
> *


So you can rescind the contract IF the buyer has required the seller to repair or replace the goods but the seller hasn't done this in a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience. Like I said you have to give the seller a 'reasonable' opportunity to repair the goods before you can demand a refund.

Now that you understand you've misread it...

Two questions...

How does Kerr revoke acceptance of the goods?

How does Kerr prove that he didn't agree to buy the car with the damage?

Edit: You also missed this



> 48AIntroductory
> 
> 
> (1)This section applies if-
> (a)the buyer deals as consumer or, in Scotland, there is a consumer contract in which the buyer is a consumer, and
> (b)the goods do not conform to the contract of sale at the time of delivery.
> (2)If this section applies, the buyer has the right-
> (a)under and in accordance with section 48B below, to require the seller to repair or replace the goods, or
> (b)under and in accordance with section 48C below-
> (i)to require the seller to reduce the purchase price of the goods to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or
> (ii)to rescind the contract with regard to the goods in question.
> (3)For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) above goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.
> (4)*Subsection (3) above does not apply if*-
> (a)it is established that the goods did so conform at that date;
> (b)*its application is incompatible with the nature of the goods or the nature of the lack of conformity.*


i.e. Damage rather than a fault.

Now are you going to stop talking mince and quoting stuff that makes it clear you don't know what you're talking about? You've called me up on 3 things. 1 was a (crazy) assumption. The other 2 are wrong.


----------



## Kerr

Bear in mind with the case there is a lot of emails between myself and the dealer. Most of the matters are solid and clearly obvious with some matters that weren't quite said in so many words.

I think after almost 3 months that exceeds what I'd call an acceptable time to repair. The chain highlights how much I was chasing after them and their sheer reluctance to do anything. There is numerous periods where it is over a week just to respond. 

You wouldn't actually believe the amount of lengthy discussions and emails between all the parties involved. 

When I emailed customer services the other day, I highlighted the amount of inconvenience I've already suffered, then I'd still be required to give the car up to the bodyshop for the best part of a week, then I'd still need to go to the dealer for the replacement wheels they've refused to replace until the bodywork was sorted. Also the rattles needing tackled. 

So even though we are almost 3 months into the dispute, it isn't actually that close to being resolved if repairing was the way forward. 

Companies just shouldn't be allowed to behave like this.


----------



## Rayaan

Nanoman said:


> You're talking so much mince I'm going to start selling burgers!
> 
> Try reading your own post.
> 
> So you can rescind the contract IF the buyer has required the seller to repair or replace the goods but the seller hasn't done this in a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience. Like I said you have to give the seller a 'reasonable' opportunity to repair the goods before you can demand a refund.
> 
> Now that you understand you've misread it...
> 
> Two questions...
> 
> How does Kerr revoke acceptance of the goods?
> 
> How does Kerr prove that he didn't agree to buy the car with the damage?
> 
> Edit: You also missed this
> 
> i.e. Damage rather than a fault.
> 
> Now are you going to stop talking mince and quoting stuff that makes it clear you don't know what you're talking about? You've called me up on 3 things. 1 was a (crazy) assumption. The other 2 are wrong.


Surely a car sold with damage has to be documented as damaged?

If it's not listed as damaged then Kerr can easily prove he didn't agree to buy a damaged car as it's not in the documentation Eg the handover checklist.

If bought outright you can reject a car within 6 months if new. Just walk into the dealership with a written letter and hand him the keys. Dealers can reject your rejection though :/

Also the car was new, satisfactory quality for a new car means no marks or dents anywhere so Kerr has a vehicle of unsatisfactory quality


----------



## Nanoman

Rayaan said:


> Surely a car sold with damage has to be documented as damaged?


Whether it was sold damaged or not appears to be under dispute.


Rayaan said:


> If it's not listed as damaged then Kerr can easily prove he didn't agree to buy a damaged car as it's not in the documentation Eg the handover checklist.


 Quite possibly you're right but again, whether it was damaged when handed over is under dispute.


Rayaan said:


> If bought outright you can reject a car within 6 months if new. Just walk into the dealership with a written letter and hand him the keys. Dealers can reject your rejection though :/


 What legislation enshrines this 6 month right to reject a car? Dealer can also charge a 'reasonable' amount for the use you've had if you do go down the rejection route. Who decides what is 'reasonable'? Answer is courts and precedents.



Rayaan said:


> Also the car was new, satisfactory quality for a new car means no marks or dents anywhere so Kerr has a vehicle of unsatisfactory quality


Again, whether it was handed over in that state or note is in dispute.

I'm not sure how Kerr can withdraw his acceptance when he didn't discover any issues or alert the dealer for many days. (I don't have all the answers).

Even then the dealer is within their rights to offer a repair and Kerr must allow that (subject to 'reasonable' time etc).

I think my main goal here is to try to help Kerr and point out to all the people who think it's clear cut and SOGA protects you that it's not as clear and protecting as you think.


----------



## Kerr

The case for the first countless weeks wasn't under dispute. 

The dealer accepted liability and admitted it was transportation damage after seeing the car. He organised the PDR guy to come out and fix the car. 

When that failed he offered me compensation to live with the damage. I refused that. 

Then he offered a repair, but the conditions were that if the car was going to the bodyshop, I'd need to sign an agreement in advance to say I would be forced to accept it even if I wasn't happy with the job.

Is was only after the two stupid offers were refused that things got turned on their head. After refusing the compensation and saying the repair offer was unfair and quite probably against consumer rights, he said he'd need to speak to Arnold Clark contact customer services. 

Only after that he told Mercedes that they weren't liable and anything that would happen would be goodwill. However if you read the email chain you can see that liability was already previously accepted. You can see the attempts to repair and the offers. 

I'm guessing Arnold Clark told him to change his mind, but it was already too late. You can see the emails what was going on. 

I have a photograph from within 24 hours that caught a bit of the damage. There was a video recorded at the dealer before I collected the car that appeared to show the damage. Countless professionals have said that the damage is transportation damage. 

If you had seen what has been said and done, which most of it is documented, you'd be amazed that they even had the cheek to try and turn around and dispute it countless weeks later. 

Every last shred of evidence proves it was done before delivery. 

The time frame Arnold Clark are holding me to is 10 days. That's because it is the first evidence of written proof. 

Who initially writes to the dealer to raise issues? I doubt many people. I never either, I called in to the dealer a couple of times first. 

I then dealt with Tony Higgins by phone for the first few weeks. It was only when it was going wrong that I started emailing. All the way through the emails you can see that he ignores emails for a week and doesn't respond to telephone messages left either. 

It is so clear cut you wouldn't believe.


----------



## Nanoman

So we'll assume that you have an authorised person acting on behalf of AC expressly accepting liability for the damage and confirming that the goods were not of satisfactory quality at time of delivery. No ifs buts or debate. 

Remember not disputing liability is different from accepting liability. I.e they might say they didn't dispute liability early in and were willing to repair it as a goodwill gesture despite believing the damage had occurred after it was handed over. Only when you wouldn't accept the terms of their offer or the repair costs were higher than expected did thy withdraw their offer and at no point was liability ever accepted. 

If you have an express admission from an authorised person that the goods were not of satisfactory quality at time of delivery you still have to give them reasonable attempts to repair it. (More than 1 attempt to repair the fault over an extended timescale is also acceptable in many cases). 

If they fail to repair the goods they can replace them or choose to refund you minus reasonable fee for use of the car. 

There will be precedents set for value of damaged repaired goods being less than undamaged/unrepaired goods particularly in the case of a car. I suspect the precedents won't be what we'd want to see but I haven't looked into them. 

The best thing to do now is wait and see what AC/Mercedes come up with. If they offer replacement at no cost or full refund they'll be going well above and beyond what is required of them.

Let us know what their offer is and I'll try to help you work out next step if you like. Can you quote where you think they have expressly admitted liability and that goods were not of satisfactory quality at time of delivery?


----------



## Starbuck88

Nanoman said:


> If you have an express admission from an authorised person that the goods were not of satisfactory quality at time of delivery you still have to give them reasonable attempts to repair it. (More than 1 attempt to repair the fault over an extended timescale is also acceptable in many cases).
> 
> If they fail to repair the goods they can replace them or choose to refund you minus reasonable fee for use of the car.


Kerr said above though that they tried to make him sign something that said he had to accept the repair, no matter how shoddy it is?



Kerr said:


> Then he offered a repair, but the conditions were that if the car was going to the bodyshop, I'd need to sign an agreement in advance to say I would be forced to accept it even if I wasn't happy with the job.


How is that fair?


----------



## Nanoman

Starbuck88 said:


> Kerr said above though that they tried to make him sign something that said he had to accept the repair, no matter how shoddy it is?
> 
> How is that fair?


You make a good point. The point is that's not what their terms were at all. That's the emotional, non-factual bit Kerr has added. It did not say you must accept shoddy work. If they're going to spend 4 figures fixing it they are within their rights to expect that will be the end of the matter and he'll not accept a suitable repair after they've paid for it.

Kerr needs a copy of the terms of their repair offer to have any chance of claiming it wasn't reasonable.


----------



## Starbuck88

Nanoman said:


> It did not say you must accept shoddy work.


This might bring him round in a circle though.

With how they have seemingly behaved so far (and reading up on ACs issues all over the internet)... I think mine, yours and kerrs 'workmanship' standard is going to be higher than that of the average person.

I think quite rightly so too on a 40 odd grand car. It's not a Dacia he's just bought for £7,995.

Then if it goes to court or an intermediary, how do you know they're not going to just say, well the dents have gone, therefore it is a fix end of, no matter if the car has had half a spray job, with miss matched colours and varying degrees of finish over the car. (This is all hypothesising of course)


----------



## taylor8

Kerr said:


> The case for the first countless weeks wasn't under dispute.
> 
> The dealer accepted liability and admitted it was transportation damage after seeing the car. He organised the PDR guy to come out and fix the car.
> 
> When that failed he offered me compensation to live with the damage. I refused that.
> 
> Then he offered a repair, but the conditions were that if the car was going to the bodyshop, I'd need to sign an agreement in advance to say I would be forced to accept it even if I wasn't happy with the job.
> 
> Is was only after the two stupid offers were refused that things got turned on their head. After refusing the compensation and saying the repair offer was unfair and quite probably against consumer rights, he said he'd need to speak to Arnold Clark contact customer services.
> 
> Only after that he told Mercedes that they weren't liable and anything that would happen would be goodwill. However if you read the email chain you can see that liability was already previously accepted. You can see the attempts to repair and the offers.
> 
> I'm guessing Arnold Clark told him to change his mind, but it was already too late. You can see the emails what was going on.
> 
> I have a photograph from within 24 hours that caught a bit of the damage. There was a video recorded at the dealer before I collected the car that appeared to show the damage. Countless professionals have said that the damage is transportation damage.
> 
> If you had seen what has been said and done, which most of it is documented, you'd be amazed that they even had the cheek to try and turn around and dispute it countless weeks later.
> 
> Every last shred of evidence proves it was done before delivery.
> 
> The time frame Arnold Clark are holding me to is 10 days. That's because it is the first evidence of written proof.
> 
> Who initially writes to the dealer to raise issues? I doubt many people. I never either, I called in to the dealer a couple of times first.
> 
> I then dealt with Tony Higgins by phone for the first few weeks. It was only when it was going wrong that I started emailing. All the way through the emails you can see that he ignores emails for a week and doesn't respond to telephone messages left either.
> 
> It is so clear cut you wouldn't believe.


Get a detailed phone bill to show your calls to Arnold Clark:thumb:


----------



## Nanoman

Starbuck88 said:


> This might bring him round in a circle though.
> 
> With how they have seemingly behaved so far (and reading up on ACs issues all over the internet)... I think mine, yours and kerrs 'workmanship' standard is going to be higher than that of the average person.
> 
> I think quite rightly so too on a 40 odd grand car. It's not a Dacia he's just bought for £7,995.
> 
> Then if it goes to court or an intermediary, how do you know they're not going to just say, well the dents have gone, therefore it is a fix end of, no matter if the car has had half a spray job, with miss matched colours and varying degrees of finish over the car. (This is all hypothesising of course)


That's the very problem. SOGA has various protections for AC which they will know inside out. They are within their rights to use these protections to give Kerr a repaired car as long ass the repair is done to a reasonable standard (AC and Kerr can lean on independent, qualified professionals to argue whether this is the case or not).

Hopefully Kerr will get his preferred outcome from this.


----------



## Kerr

We're not at court yet. :lol:

As it stands I've not to contact Arnold Clark. My point of contact now is the Customer Care manager at Milton Keynes. They've asked to take control of the case. 

At this point I'm not contesting things with AC. 

Customer Care did send an email also confirming that they are satisfied the damage is transportation damage and have clearly expressed liability.

We're jumping ahead of ourselves in the meaning of a few of her emails and rushing ahead of ourselves. 

So far my communication with Customer Care in Milton Keynes has been far more positive. Although Holland was useless and Arnold Clark too, I'm not ready to press the panic button with Milton Keynes yet.


----------



## Starbuck88

So is Milton Keynes a MB contact centre? or AC Customer Care? I'm getting confused now with all the different places...


----------



## Kerr

Starbuck88 said:


> So is Milton Keynes a MB contact centre? or AC Customer Care? I'm getting confused now with all the different places...


Mercedes are Milton Keynes.

They aren't the normal route for complaints though. The normal customer care team are based in Holland.

I was in contact with Holland, the dealer and Arnold Clark's customer care who are based in Glasgow.

It was someone on the Mercedes forum that gave me the contact for Milton Keynes.


----------



## SBM

Looks like this is starting to move in the right direction...
Keep us informed Kerr and much appreciate that as this must be stressful enough..

All the best
Ben


----------



## Shug

Sure it was transport damage?


----------



## Cookies

Kerr,

I think I've cracked it.

I was watching the new RS3 Sportback advert and I think this is how they had to restrain your A45 AMG.










Sorry chum. Thought I'd lighten the mood a wee bit.

Cooks


----------



## bidderman1969

Cookies said:


> Kerr,
> 
> I think I've cracked it.
> 
> I was watching the new RS3 Sportback advert and I think this is how they had to restrain your A45 AMG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry chum. Thought I'd lighten the mood a wee bit.
> 
> Cooks


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: exactly what i was thinking, missus couldn't work out what i was laughing about


----------



## SteveTDCi

the other advert with the RS3 being born is .... erm .... interesting


----------



## Kerr

They certainly are pushing the adverts for the new RS3. There was another one rallying through the woods against a Group B rally car. 

Had a chat on the phone tonight and I think things are getting much closer. 

There is very few A45s in Scotland, and not that many down south either. It's sounding as if there is more white cars than anything available. 

She did ask me what colours I wouldn't consider, so I've only ruled out Bronze so far and more than likely violet too. I half like the idea of purple, but I think that might hit the value and desirability later.

It's really hard to judge colours when I haven't either seen some of the colours in person.


----------



## B17BLG

Stick with pink


----------



## Overdoser

Glad this is moving in the right direction.


----------



## Starbuck88

Kerr said:


> They certainly are pushing the adverts for the new RS3. There was another one rallying through the woods against a Group B rally car.
> 
> Had a chat on the phone tonight and I think things are getting much closer.
> 
> There is very few A45s in Scotland, and not that many down south either. It's sounding as if there is more white cars than anything available.
> 
> She did ask me what colours I wouldn't consider, so I've only ruled out Bronze so far and more than likely violet too. I half like the idea of purple, but I think that might hit the value and desirability later.
> 
> It's really hard to judge colours when I haven't either seen some of the colours in person.


I'd have any, I think all of the colours are pretty nice.

The Violet, I wouldn't worry, I'd be more than happy with that colour. Then again I wouldn't mind the Bronze/Brown colour either 

It's nice to see a car in a different colour than everybody else, All the A's I've seen driving around have all been that light metallic blue colour. Boring.


----------



## m4rkymark

kerr 9 times out of 10 the violet looks black. it only looks violet in the sun. If you want to see the violet in the flesh and your in Dundee give me a shout, your more than welcome to come round.


----------



## bradleymarky

The bronze is a lovely colour in the sun but so is the white.


----------



## Kerr

I'm not too sure on the colour fronts. I quite like a number of the colours, but would find it hard to choose without actually seeing it in person. Some cars suit some colours more than others.

I did like red most from the colours I've seen the A45 in. I've only seen red, black, white and grey. I've not even seen a silver one yet which is really odd.

There was numerous pre-registered cars added to Mercedes stock just a few weeks ago. They'll need to shift car for the new model coming late on this year and the A45 is never going to sell fast.

I wouldn't take a pre-registered in lieu of a new car, but the cars in stock all seem to be well specced up. Lots have leather(not too sure I'd choose leather over the stock seats) but that's a cost option, many have command, panoramic roofs and the aero kit. It seems they've built most of them to a higher spec.

It'll be interesting to see what my options are.

I like the white, but the white maybe needs the aero kit a bit more.










I like the blue. This is an older picture without the badges on the car. Not many blue cars in A45 spec.










Red. That's an older one too with the silver exhausts. Newer ones are black.










I actually wanted these wheels over the black ones, but they are so hard to get. Nobody has cars with them on.










I bet the violet looks completely different in person. I would take up the opportunity to view it, but I'll not be in Dundee for a bit.










The only bronze picture I can see is as test car. I don't think it works.





































Black is too black with black wheels. These wheels would work better, but I can't see a picture.

I don't know why every went for the black wheels over titanium. The black wheels actually cost more.


----------



## alan hanson

why did they even bother with the bronze? blue is ok prefer silver wheels white and black are white and black cant really go wrong just whether you want something different to the most popular


----------



## Starbuck88

That Matte Silver/Grey looks amazing...


----------



## Alfieharley1

please not the blue
the blue car and red calipers im afraid not my cup of tea.

I really like the silver ones with Gloss back additions. There is one round the corner from me ill try and get a picture


----------



## SBM

There is a guy with the Matt grey one where I work. I thought it was a wrap or special order, but no its a colour option.

I think the blue is really nice, but agree it need different caliper colour, not red.

The only colour I don't like at all is that Bronze if that is the correct colour.

But Hey Kerr its your car - it seems your main issue is the titanium wheels...


----------



## lofty

Red with Titanium wheels looks great, my local dealer had a CLA45 in that combo a few weeks ago, it sold within days, looked great imo. I toyed with the idea of a CLA 45 before buying my C63, it definitely would have been the same combo.


----------



## Kerr

There is a couple of greys available. The one above is an expensive option though. I'm sure it's about £1700-1800. 

There is a normal metallic grey that was my second choice after red. It looks different when you see it.

We will see what the woman comes up with. She phoned last night to talk over matters and it was positive. 

She knows that I don't want to go back to Dundee, that'll be awkward to say the least, and suggested Aberdeen for the handover. I did agree to this at first, but in hindsight I'd prefer not to do that. It's Arnold Clark too.

I've requested that we could do the handover at the Edinburgh dealer. That's going to be my garage of choice for servicing and repairs from now on in. 

I'd like to start off with them from the beginning with a clean slate.


----------



## Starbuck88

Kerr said:


> There is a couple of greys available. The one above is an expensive option though. I'm sure it's about £1700-1800.
> 
> There is a normal metallic grey that was my second choice after red. It looks different when you see it.
> 
> We will see what the woman comes up with. She phoned last night to talk over matters and it was positive.
> 
> She knows that I don't want to go back to Dundee, that'll be awkward to say the least, and suggested Aberdeen for the handover. I did agree to this at first, but in hindsight I'd prefer not to do that. It's Arnold Clark too.
> 
> I've requested that we could do the handover at the Edinburgh dealer. That's going to be my garage of choice for servicing and repairs from now on in.
> 
> I'd like to start off with them from the beginning with a clean slate.


Is Edinburgh not an Arnold Clark dealership then?


----------



## Nanoman

Kerr said:


> There is a couple of greys available. The one above is an expensive option though. I'm sure it's about £1700-1800.
> 
> There is a normal metallic grey that was my second choice after red. It looks different when you see it.
> 
> We will see what the woman comes up with. She phoned last night to talk over matters and it was positive.
> 
> She knows that I don't want to go back to Dundee, that'll be awkward to say the least, and suggested Aberdeen for the handover. I did agree to this at first, but in hindsight I'd prefer not to do that. It's Arnold Clark too.
> 
> I've requested that we could do the handover at the Edinburgh dealer. That's going to be my garage of choice for servicing and repairs from now on in.
> 
> I'd like to start off with them from the beginning with a clean slate.


I've heard nothing but good things about Eastern (or are they Western?) in Edinburgh. If I was buying Merc again that would be the only garage in Scotland I'd use I think.


----------



## Rayaan

I actually like the bronze 

I don't like the white - it looks almost cream.


----------



## 20vKarlos

Hi Kerr, 

Glad things are moving forwards for you now mate, and I'm glad you've posted everything here mate. 

I currently own a 13 reg Zafira and have owned that car from new. We are looking to move into the performance car world soon as the kids are older now and I'm pining for a bit of power for a change :lol: 

I'm glad I have information that I can use if this ever happened to myself and I shall be sure to stay away from Arnold Clark

In future, (without sounding patronising) maybe take a strategic holiday/weekend break away with the Mrs and on your travels go and see the cars you are interested in. 

You'll find the right one, and also, having your car serviced in Edinborough could also be a good thing as you could organise a night away and have the car serviced while you're down for a night by booking it in in Advance :thumb:


----------



## SBM

20vKarlos said:


> Hi Kerr,
> 
> Glad things are moving forwards for you now mate, and I'm glad you've posted everything here mate.
> 
> I currently own a 13 reg Zafira and have owned that car from new. We are looking to move into the performance car world soon as the kids are older now and I'm pining for a bit of power for a change :lol:
> 
> I'm glad I have information that I can use if this ever happened to myself and I shall be sure to stay away from Arnold Clark
> 
> In future, (without sounding patronising) maybe take a strategic holiday/weekend break away with the Mrs and on your travels go and see the cars you are interested in.
> 
> You'll find the right one, and also, having your car serviced in Edinborough could also be a good thing as you could organise a night away and have the car serviced while you're down for a night by booking it in in Advance :thumb:


Thats a good shout :thumb::thumb:


----------



## Bero

Kerr said:


> I like the white, but the white maybe needs the aero kit a bit more.


I'm sure the aero kits is very much a marmite option, but having seen it in the flesh I think it really sets the car off, otherwise there's not much to differentiate it from a vanilla A-Class.

Me and a friend


----------



## Starbuck88

That A Class looks 'Bigger' than the C....weird. 

When they're together like that, is it obvious or is this just a strange optical illusion with the photo?


----------



## Kerr

Bero said:


> I'm sure the aero kits is very much a marmite option, but having seen it in the flesh I think it really sets the car off, otherwise they're is not much to differentiate it from a vanilla A-Class.
> 
> Me and a friend


I actually didn't want the Aero kit, but other colours do need it more than red.

It doesn't justify the £1500 for how little you get.

Did you race the A45 at Crail?


----------



## Bero

Starbuck88 said:


> That A Class looks 'Bigger' than the C....weird.
> 
> When they're together like that, is it obvious or is this just a strange optical illusion with the photo?


Partially the angle I think, though the A-class is a bit 'beefier' up front with a flatter front end and higher bonnet line. Here's another angle.












Kerr said:


> I actually didn't want the Aero kit, but other colours do need it more than red.
> 
> It doesn't justify the £1500 for how little you get.
> 
> Did you race the A45 at Crail?


It's an expansive option for sure.......but I do love it, whether I could take myself to pay for it is a different matter.

Yes we raced at Crail, I only bought the car the day before, it had not been to Aberdeen yet. :lol:

As you can see from the conditions, wet, cold and almost greasy (can you see where this is going?:lol the AWD is a big advantage and the A45 launches are amazing, faster than a R35 GTR to 60' and a host of other AWD cars.

I had a consistently faster terminal velocity, but had a big struggle for traction at the start compared to his scalded cat start which killed me. It was faster for me not using launch control....or even holding revs against the brake.....very serene waiting for the lights to turn: -


Sit at idle revs
Wait for green
Feather in the throttle
Feed in more and more
Flat out

It would be interesting in the dry, and I suspect not a lot between them.


----------



## Starbuck88

Nice...yes I think the angle played a big part there. Looks a bit more normal in your other shot 

Beautiful motors.


----------



## Kerr

I've been offered a replacement car. I haven't seen it yet obviously. 

Not sure how timings will work with shipping, car preparation and with me being away on holiday soon. Think things may take a few weeks with the way things are. 

They've agreed to my request that the car is supplied through Edinburgh. 

It's a red car I've provisionally accepted. Sounds as if the red calipers are missing, which although I'd like them, it's not a deal breaker. On the plus side, the replacement car has command online, panoramic roof and heated seats. 

They don't expect any contributions from me. 

I'll not count my chickens until everything is done and dusted. Sounds like a good deal to me.


----------



## Alan W

Great news! 

I'm not sure how you kept a level head through ALL that went on but it is a credit to you for sticking it out and getting such a resolve. :thumb:

Congratulations and enjoy collecting and driving your new car when it arrives. 

Alan W


----------



## SBM

Excellent new Kerr and agree this is a great deal by the sounds of it.
What about the titanium wheels? I guess they are probably one step to far?

Look forward to your update when you finally get to see it. Fingers crossed it is exactly as they state.

Bets of luck buddy :thumb:
Ben


----------



## Kerr

The titanium wheels are very rare. They are cheaper than the black wheels, but nobody goes for them. 

The command online is £2100 in lieu of the Becker Nav that Merc charge £500 for, the panoramic roof £900 and heated seats £300. I don't think you need heated seats with alcantara. 

I'll lose my red calipers which were a £300 option, so I'm still £2500 to the good. 

I've asked for a stringent PDI to take place to ensure no further issues. 

Hopefully this is all done and dusted soon. A nice fresh car for the summer (when/if it comes) with a nice roof to enjoy it.


----------



## DJ X-Ray

That sounds good.

Nice one:thumb:


----------



## uruk hai

Glad to see there's a light at the end of the tunnel mate !


----------



## paleredfox

Great that it's reached conclusion you are willing to accept and with some brucey bonus options in lieu of your original choices.

Fingers crossed


----------



## Starbuck88

Brilliant Kerr, that's fantastic news!

Now I can't wait to see the 'My new car arrived' thread with all the pictures and good/happy stories about it


----------



## Geordieexile

Glad to see you're getting a good result. Best of luck with the new motor.


----------



## Bhalay207

I've just sat and read the whole post. Glad everything is coming together for you. After everything it's about time. I'm shocked at what you've gone through with a prestigious brand like MB. You'd expect this kind of things from a budget brand but not MB. 

Is the replacement brand new?


----------



## m4rkymark

glad you have a new car and its all sorted now. heated seats are excellent, I wouldn't be without mine, especially on a cold day.


----------



## Cookies

That's great news Kerr. I'm delighted for you, especially after all the back-pedalling by the dealer etc. 

As some of the guys have said above, I can't wait to see the pics/update thread. 

I'd say they'll be making sure the pdi is done right!!!!

Good luck chum

Cooks


----------



## bradleymarky

I`m chuffed for you mate. Have you thought about picking it up yourself


----------



## slim_boy_fat

Great news, Kerr - it's just such a shame you had to jump through hoops to reach a resolution which AC ought to have sorted in the first instance.

A salutary lesson for anyone considering buying from any of their outlets.....:devil:


----------



## andy665

Glad its been sorted, if I were you I'd go and inspect the car before you agree to taking it

Such a shame the respective parties didn't pull their fingers out a lot earlier, would have cost them less (as in your current car would be returned younger and with a lower mileage) and they would have kept you happier


----------



## Nanoman

Glad it seems you're going to get the outcome you deserve. 

If it was the Becker MapPilot module thing you were going to have then you've had a lucky escape. It's utter ****e. How they can charge the cost for the unit and subs I have no idea. I got mine on ebay for £100 and paid for 2 years updates. It's absolutely dreadful and I do not trust it one bit having seen some of the routes it tries to take me.


----------



## zippo

chuffed your perseverance and ultimately cool attitude won the day for you Kerr 
Daz


----------



## Starbuck88

Do you have any news on when you'll get your new beast?


----------



## Kerr

Not sure yet. I'm off on holiday soon and will struggle to collect it beforehand. Wouldn't be a bad thing to wait until afterwards. 

I did get an email from Auto Express yesterday asking if I would be prepared to feature in their magazine. 

I had to pass up on the fame with a resolution in sight. :lol:

She did say any more issues and she'd like to know and would help.


----------



## millns84

Kerr said:


> I did get an email from Auto Express yesterday asking if I would be prepared to feature in their magazine.
> 
> I had to pass up on the fame with a resolution in sight. :lol:
> 
> She did say any more issues and she'd like to know and would help.


I think you should take them up on that offer anyway.

Just because you've FINALLY got the result you deserve doesn't mean that they haven't treated you atrociously and don't deserve the negative press surrounding that.

Do you think they'll change their ways otherwise? I bet they do this hoping that the majority of people would just drop it or accept one of their repairs etc.


----------



## Kerr

millns84 said:


> I think you should take them up on that offer anyway.
> 
> Just because you've FINALLY got the result you deserve doesn't mean that they haven't treated you atrociously and don't deserve the negative press surrounding that.
> 
> Do you think they'll change their ways otherwise? I bet they do this hoping that the majority of people would just drop it or accept one of their repairs etc.


Arnold Clark have been featured in every magazine, have loads of threads about them all over the Internet, plus have featured on prime time TV on BBC's Watchdog.

That hasn't forced them to change over the years.

I do agree they should be named and shamed, I've done it here myself with a decent amount of exposure, but I don't want to ruin my case. The deal isn't done and dusted until the car is in my possession.

I did give her a run down as the position was and she gave a nice email in response.

She also went on to say the landscape is changing for enfranchised dealers. Soon they won't be able to get away with so much.

She didn't elaborate too much what that really meant though.

At it stands the story isn't as juicy. The fact there is a higher spec car on the way, worth a good bit more money, reduces the overall effect of the story. That kind of flattens the story as there should be a resolution.

The offer from Auto Express is open if the new car isn't right. So if it goes wrong from here on in, it could still happen.

However you wouldn't want to see my ugly mug in a magazine. :lol:


----------



## bidderman1969

any update on this bud?


----------



## Kerr

I'm on holiday. 

The car has apparently arrived at the dealer and we just need to set a date for the pick up. I'd expect that to be late next week to suit. 

After everything with me, my sister won an Arnold Clark competition last week through a radio station.

The silly eejit has no idea about cars and hadn't had her new car serviced on time. She was due to be travelling down south and my dad made her go service it at the local dealer, which surprise, surprise is Arnold Clark. 

She filled in a competition form and ended up winning the prize. 

It was a £4000 package that included £2000 cash, an iPhone 6, 2 iPad minis, headphones, car hire and various other things. 

One extreme to another with our dealings with them.:lol:


----------



## Kerr

Well this saga just hasn't got any better at all. 

The car still isn't ready for collection to this date. There has just been excuse after excuse, wires crossed, indecision, chopping, changing and I can't work out what the hell is going on. 

The car was sourced at the end of June. The spec list was better than mine, and part of the must have list was the performance exhaust. 

Against the plans the car ended up at the supplying dealer. Handover was still going to be Edinburgh, but this later changed too. The handover was going to be at Grangemouth, which is also another Arnold Clark dealer. 

Then I was told the car didn't have the performance exhaust, after previously being told it was on the car from factory. After a delay I was told the exhaust had been fitted, however an AMG engineer had to inspect. Really? An engineer for an exhaust? 

After coming back from my holiday, I contacted Mercedes only to be told of further delay. The car didn't come with a performance exhaust and nobody ordered one. So they were on back order and I had to wait. 

Yes, it confused me too. It was there, then it wasn't, then it was, then it wasn't.

It sounded to me if people were looking for excuses to buy themselves time and something was wrong. 

Finally the car was ready two weeks ago. So I took a couple of days off to go and get it. Then suddenly the customer care girl went quiet, she ended up off on the sick and the pick up wasn't confirmed. So I tried to deal with her colleagues and they promised a day. That didn't happen. 

This week I left today open to go get it, thinking this couldn't roll on again. Then I was told it wouldn't arrive at Grangemouth until next week. I told her I couldn't take any more annual leave days and that I had plans the next couple of weekends too. I'm planing on being away and I had already changed my plans twice for a pick up when I was told the car was ready. 

So even after telling her I had wasted days when I was told the car was ready, Tuesday next week was set as the earliest date. 

Then I got an email this afternoon to say the car was ready to be collected at Grangemouth. 

So it was too late to pick the thing up, so I asked for early tomorrow morning and for the car's details.

I was told the car was registered, but she didn't know the plate. 

I had previously told them that I will be taking along a specialist to inspect the car. So it was now introduced that they want me to view the car and have it inspected, then they'll organise the road tax.

I couldn't understand this one. They'd risk registering a new car days before the change of plates and in my name, both of which will hit the car's value if the inspection turns up something, yet wouldn't take the risk on £180 road tax that is refundable.........

As I said to her, if the PDI has been done correctly, they'd know if the car was ok, or not.

I previously stated that my paranoia level is running high due to the excessive wait, the excuses including the same one twice, and the fact the car has gone back to the useless gits at Arnold Clark Mercedes of Dundee. 

Grangemouth is 2.5 hours from Aberdeen and I'm not really prepared to go back and forward twice now. 

There's always an excuse or a barrier put in place. 

I've shown the patience of a saint throughout the case. I've had my moments with Arnold Clark and Mercedes in Holland, but that was deserved. Today was enough for me with Mercedes Customer Care in Milton Keynes. 

I've now requested that I can return the car for a full refund. 

I'm totally sick to the back teeth of all this nonsense. She's going to approach her boss on Monday to see how to progress next. 

This has been going on for 5 months now.


----------



## Clancy

Absolute joke what they have put you through, I full refund and walk away is more than reasonable. I'm surprised you lasted that long I would of blown my lid a long time ago


----------



## Kerr

Clancy said:


> Absolute joke what they have put you through, I full refund and walk away is more than reasonable. I'm surprised you lasted that long I would of blown my lid a long time ago


I just can't work out where it's all going wrong.

The girl from customer care seems nice and it appears she's trying to help.

However there's just one **** up after another **** up. I can't quite work out where all the mistakes and lies are coming from as she's my only point of contact. Is she just too nice and putting on a poker face, or is the dealer leading her on a merry dance too? I just can't work out what's going on.

She's always spoken to me nicely and I've always been nice to her. She knew I really meant what I said today and knows herself that it has dragged on far too long since she's been involved.

Bottom line is it doesn't matter where the fault exists, it's just not happening for me.


----------



## Clancy

I'd imagine the dealership itself is just using her as a puppet to give you the run around and she's as out of the loop as you are 

Probably comes down to them saying loads of stuff is on the car, getting it and finding out it didn't have some parts. Or someone else had it and they had no car and they are just fishing for time to find another 

Whatever the reason, I wouldn't be comfortable taking a car from them after all that. Imagine the after care if they can't even sell it properly!


----------



## RisingPower

Damn.

Yeah, sounds like the dealer is screwing you around.


----------



## Andy from Sandy

If it was an exotic car I could understand a delay but 5 months is nonsense.

If it were coming on a slow boat from the Far East a similar delay but anything from Germany I would think 3 months is about the sort of delay to expect.



> I've now requested that I can return the car for a full refund.


Best course of action I would think but very frustrating.


----------



## Cookies

Good grief. That's an absolute nightmare Kerr. I thought it was going to be a 'happily ever after ' tale when I saw your update. 

I'd have done exactly the same as you in asking for a full refund. They (AC & MB) don't deserve your custom. In fact they don't deserve any custom if that's the standard to which they work. 

I hope you get sorted chum. 

Cooks


----------



## uruk hai

I really feel for you mate, what should have been a really nice experience has just gone so badly wrong.


----------



## bidderman1969

Would certainly put me off buying from these jokers, and anyone else I have shown this thread too

Sounds to me like there never has been a car, and they are just playing for time for either a) you get too fed up and give up and stick with what you have, or b) waiting for one to come along that's convienient for them


----------



## Alan W

Absolutely unbeeeeeeeeeeelievable Kerr! You couldn't make this story up if you tried. :doublesho

I think you're doing the right thing now by wanting out and I hope you get a satisfactory resolve although somehow I doubt it, unfortunately. 

Alan W


----------



## slim_boy_fat

What an absolute nightmare!! :doublesho

Hope your refund is processed properly and swiftly so that you can move on.


----------



## Sicskate

That's just disgusting!!


----------



## Kash-Jnr

I live pretty close to Grangemouth, when they say the car is ready for pickup I could pop by to check for you. Save you the **** taking and the trip from Aberdeen! So glad I didn't buy a Merc as the dealer in Grangemouth is etihs too.


----------



## Kerr

Kash-Jnr said:


> I live pretty close to Grangemouth, when they say the car is ready for pickup I could pop by to check for you. Save you the **** taking and the trip from Aberdeen! So glad I didn't buy a Merc as the dealer in Grangemouth is etihs too.


Thanks for the offer. If you're passing, you could have a nosy. Don't go out of your way.

There may, or may not, be a red A45 there for me.


----------



## f4780y

Sorry to hear the latest update Kerr. Good luck with the refund.


----------



## bigmac3161

Take it u'll not be recommending the 3 pointed star to anybody. Such a shame u could forgive 1 **** up with a car but not a second. U'd think they'd be extra careful with you 2nd time round 🏻


----------



## m4rkymark

That's shocking service from both AC and MB. MB will know exactly where the car is - they are tracked on computer from the factory with their own ID given before they are even built.

Sounds like you've been fed a line and there was never a car there or if there was its been sold or the dealer that had it isn't willing to give it up and they are struggling to find another - in the amount of time you have waited they could have built and delivered a new one from the factory.

I think you have given them more than enough time and been extremely patient with them. Good luck with your next stage in the journey.

Have you thought about approaching Auto express again?


----------



## Kerr

m4rkymark said:


> That's shocking service from both AC and MB. MB will know exactly where the car is - they are tracked on computer from the factory with their own ID given before they are even built.
> 
> Sounds like you've been fed a line and there was never a car there or if there was its been sold or the dealer that had it isn't willing to give it up and they are struggling to find another - in the amount of time you have waited they could have built and delivered a new one from the factory.
> 
> I think you have given them more than enough time and been extremely patient with them. Good luck with your next stage in the journey.
> 
> Have you thought about approaching Auto express again?


I'll see how things go on Monday.

I'm just writing her an email now to make my feelings clear.


----------



## Starbuck88

I saw this thread title and thought finally! We're going to see pics of the new beast.

I cannot believe this, I cannot comprehend how messed up and what a right royal pain in the backside this all is.

Get a refund and get something else. I really wouldn't be giving a penny to Mercedes-Benz after this debacle, it's an absolute disgrace and I for one have honestly been put off ever buying one in the future because of this.

What an absolute Joke. I just....I just....oh my.


----------



## turbosnoop

I bought a 7 year old fn2 ctr from Stuart graham Honda and got treated 100 times better. I moaned that the rear quarter interior trim panel was damaged , they ordered up a new one, the part was 350 pounds. I then moaned there were signs of corrosion on the roof ( common issue , windscreen seal cuts through the paint) Honda themselves paid for this repair under body corrosion warranty. 
Best of luck with Mercedes.
I was following an a45 the other day and looked up the stats for it , what a beast!


----------



## Cookies

What about Auto Express? Make it a national story perhaps. A friend has a CLS and there was wind noise coming from the drivers door. Took it to MB. "Nope sir. There is no noise." 
Friend persisted. MB took the car in again, ran some 'tests' - "Sorry sir, our database doesn't have any noise that matches that one."
Persisted. No joy. 

Threatened MB with Auto Express who were intent on running the story, and all of a sudden they asked for the car back and replaced the seals on the door and the mirror housing. Funnily enough, all was sorted. 

Cooks


----------



## Kerr

Cookies said:


> What about Auto Express? Make it a national story perhaps. A friend has a CLS and there was wind noise coming from the drivers door. Took it to MB. "Nope sir. There is no noise."
> Friend persisted. MB took the car in again, ran some 'tests' - "Sorry sir, our database doesn't have any noise that matches that one."
> Persisted. No joy.
> 
> Threatened MB with Auto Express who were intent on running the story, and all of a sudden they asked for the car back and replaced the seals on the door and the mirror housing. Funnily enough, all was sorted.
> 
> Cooks


I had an offer to appear in Auto Express earlier. I had already had the offer of the new car and politely refused their offer.

They emailed back to say if I didn't get the right conclusion, could I contact them. They seemed to really want the story.


----------



## RMM

Almost five months have passed and MB is still dragging its feet? Jesus!

Here in Portugal what usually works better is the following: you write a letter to the stealership detailing all your complaints and as a footnote you state that copies will be sent both to the Portuguese and World headquarters - it usually is "magical" in eliminating the "hurdles" created...


----------



## Starbuck88

Tell MB about Auto Express, tell them you refused as you believed you were finally being looked after however the offer is there to go back to them should things not come to a more than satisfactory conclusion.

They might think you're lying to scare them and if they do, go for it. Let's face it, they and Arnold Clark deserve everything they get.


----------



## uruk hai

Kerr said:


> I had an offer to appear in Auto Express earlier. I had already had the offer of the new car and politely refused their offer.
> 
> They emailed back to say if I didn't get the right conclusion, could I contact them. They seemed to really want the story.


I would take them up on it, the way you've been treated has been utterly disgraceful, it would be bad if you were buying a new car from the "budget" end of the market but the fact that this is "suppose" to be a "premium" brand to me makes it some sort of obscene joke.


----------



## AMG-A45

I can not believe this is still going on, they have tried to take you for a proper fool !, i would have been out of this a long time ago !, i know i certainly will not entertain another Mercedes ever again.

Feel for you.


----------



## SteveTDCi

I guess if you get your money back you won't be buying another merc.

To be fair we only tax cars on collection, it takes 5 minutes online but they have to be registered to a keeper so if they tax it in advance for a new car then your name is on the v5, and given your a fussy sod  or the car doesn't exist ........


----------



## millns84

Beyond words... Do they actually sell cars??

I'd let auto express rip them to shreds over this one, well deserved!

BMW M135i then?


----------



## Kerr

I'm not going to count my chickens on what might happen from now on in. 

It really has sickened me though. You buy a brand new, quite expensive car from a prestigious brand, you do kind of expect some care. 

Not to be royally shafted right, left and centre. 

Maybe I'll enter the world of bangernomics. At least that way if you don't pay much money, you can't be too disappointed.


----------



## bidderman1969

Get a Kia Optima


----------



## SteveTDCi

Saab9-5 + bangernomics


----------



## Cookies

I know where there's a nice Seat Exeo for sale.... 😁


----------



## PugIain

You're all wrong. You want a 508 gt ;-)


----------



## Starbuck88

Waiting with bated breath to see what happens today....


----------



## chris.t

I second that and hopefully the op gets the result he wants


----------



## RD55 DUN

Jeez...this is disgusting!


----------



## Bero

I saw there are new posts on this thread and assumed it was the happy conclusion everyone was expecting and a couple pics of the new car.......

FFS, that's terrible.


----------



## Kerr

I held my email back until last night so it was near the top of her inbox this morning. 

She said she'd be speaking to her boss, who I originally approached months ago, to see what he thinks. 

I'm told he's as senior as you can go, so hopefully he'll have the power to do something quick smart.


----------



## millns84

Kerr said:


> I held my email back until last night so it was near the top of her inbox this morning.
> 
> She said she'd be speaking to her boss, who I originally approached months ago, to see what he thinks.
> 
> I'm told he's as senior as you can go, so hopefully he'll have the power to do something quick smart.


You'd hope so, but if they've not bothered for 5 months then perhaps it's a little optimistic to think that this guy will kick someone up the @$$!

I think either way Auto Express need to be covering the story in the near future. It's been a horrendous ordeal and they're far past the point at which getting a new perfect example with a few upgrades would redeem them.

I've never heard of such nonsense, confusion and simple incompetence from a dealership let alone when Merc got involved!


----------



## Andyg_TSi

I agree with Millins.

This has been an example of pure an utter incompetence, with an added dose of contempt for the customer by the dealer.

They need making an example of and they need publicly shaming.

Get Auto express or Watchdog on the case....

You've shown far and away too much patience with this now.


----------



## Starbuck88

All this time, they could have had a new one built and shipped over surely?


----------



## bidderman1969

Starbuck88 said:


> All this time, they could have had a new one built and shipped over surely?


thats far too simple a thing for a multi million pound company to do!


----------



## Starbuck88

bidderman1969 said:


> thats far too simple a thing for a multi million pound company to do!


That's what I don't get, this has been dragged out for so long, a prestigious brand should have backed the customer, clipped the dealer round the ear and sorted you a brand new car (not have you choose from a stock vehicle).

You should get what you paid for or better as a gesture of goodwill for even having to through this in the first place.


----------



## rottenapple

I found over time that paying more does not offer better service or care, you will during the buying process, but after that the care and attention is lost  often the smaller companies who are fighting for the place offer the care and attention that is deserved. My example being while at a skoda dealership i witnessed a rather nice merc at the neighbouring dealership being unloaded from a recovery truck. Only to see said merc topple off the ramp and left hanging from the lorry the owner of the skoda garage currently chatting to me immediately shouted into his workshop to come help so off we rush to help the situation. So here we have it 5 of his staff and the owner fighting to put pallets and support to try and save someone's pride and joy. This was happening directly outside mercs service and in full view of numerous of their staff first point of contact was two staff strolling by presumably back from lunch only to be told not their problem and would inform service 15 min later car secured and rolling safely to ground out steps service manager, skoda owner asks what where they doing? Service manager did not react well with back up from word go, lets just say it sold me on never buying from them.
I hope your situation gets resolved so your walking away happy and the dealership and merc learn some lessons  overall an appauling read.


----------



## SteveTDCi

I'd be formally putting it in writing and rejecting the vehicle, give them 7 days and that if they don't respond you will be accepting this as there admission of guilt and that they are in agreement.


----------



## Kerr

She sent me an email to say the car is in Grangemouth and it can be a 65 plate. It hasn't been registered after all. 

She also said she'd need to work out figures if I wanted to reject the car. 

I emailed back to say there is no way I'm covering 5-6 months of depreciation when I raised the issues witin days. It's me who's been strung along. 

I did phone Grangemouth and the car is there. The manager was in meetings all day and doesn't know the full story behind the car. He's going to check it out and get back to me tomorrow. 

In was planning on being away on holiday, but I couldn't get anything until Tuesday. So I'm still here this weekend. 

I'll maybe see if I can go see it this weekend.


----------



## Starbuck88

Kerr said:


> She sent me an email to say the car is in Grangemouth and it can be a 65 plate. It hasn't been registered after all.
> 
> *She also said she'd need to work out figures if I wanted to reject the car. *
> 
> I emailed back to say there is no way I'm covering 5-6 months of depreciation when I raised the issues witin days. It's me who's been strung along.
> 
> I did phone Grangemouth and the car is there. The manager was in meetings all day and doesn't know the full story behind the car. *He's going to check it out and get back to me tomorrow. *
> 
> In was planning on being away on holiday, but I couldn't get anything until Tuesday. So I'm still here this weekend.
> 
> I'll maybe see if I can go see it this weekend.


Disgraceful behaviour, no way should you be footing the depreciation!

Did the manager get back to you?


----------



## Kerr

Starbuck88 said:


> Disgraceful behaviour, no way should you be footing the depreciation!
> 
> Did the manager get back to you?


He called back today, but he's still not really said too much and isn't taking too much to do with the car. He's not got any money to be made and the car doesn't show up on his stock.

The car original spec does show it as not having the exhaust from factory. I can't guess why there was all the was it wasn't it nonsense. Was it buying them time, or was it the women just trying to make me think the car was almost ready not realising the wait would be as long?

It's all the mistakes/lies that brings in the doubt, especially on the back of the previous car.

The car will be a 65 plate as it isn't registered as yet.

I've said I'll go down and see the new car on Saturday.

I'm in the process of trying to find a second pair of eyes. I had someone lined up when the car was going through Edinburgh, but I'm not sure of anyone in Grangemouth. I see a couple of Detailers nearby, so maybe I can ask one of them to give it a quick check if it's something they'd consider doing.

I'll weigh up my options when I know better. Obviously the pros for the Merc is it's going to be newer than the one I have, worth £3000 more at list price with the extra options and they will be paying silly things like road tax.

I've done 6200 miles in the 5 months, that's halfway towards the first service, that's 6200 miles of tyre wear. So basically knocking all the bills back by a further 6 months. The car will always be newer, less miles and more valuable that my current car.

On the other hand I can tick the box and move on after 6 months. I've been investigating plan B today.


----------



## Alan W

Glad to hear the car is not a figment of someone’s imagination and has materialized at last! Perhaps viewing will help you to decide if you should swap or walk. 

Grizzle (aka Graham Reid) who was banned from DW a while ago lives in Grangemouth and you could try contacting him via social media (I don't have any contact details for him, unfortunately). I’m sure he would be pleased to help inspect the potential replacement A45. :thumb:

Alan W


----------



## SteveTDCi

Grizz is alive and well and enjoying his Kia


----------



## bidderman1969

SteveTDCi said:


> Grizz is alive and well and enjoying his Kia


Which one has he got?


----------



## SteveTDCi

Ceed estate, also known as the Korean dog carrier. He's on the other side


----------



## Bero

SteveTDCi said:


> Ceed estate, also known as the Korean dog carrier. He's on the other side


An Asian takeaway van?


----------



## Bero

Kerr said:


> He called back today, but he's still not really said too much and isn't taking too much to do with the car. He's not got any money to be made and the car doesn't show up on his stock.
> 
> The car original spec does show it as not having the exhaust from factory. I can't guess why there was all the was it wasn't it nonsense. Was it buying them time, or was it the women just trying to make me think the car was almost ready not realising the wait would be as long?
> 
> It's all the mistakes/lies that brings in the doubt, especially on the back of the previous car.
> 
> The car will be a 65 plate as it isn't registered as yet.
> 
> I've said I'll go down and see the new car on Saturday.
> 
> I'm in the process of trying to find a second pair of eyes. I had someone lined up when the car was going through Edinburgh, but I'm not sure of anyone in Grangemouth. I see a couple of Detailers nearby, so maybe I can ask one of them to give it a quick check if it's something they'd consider doing.
> 
> I'll weigh up my options when I know better. Obviously the pros for the Merc is it's going to be newer than the one I have, worth £3000 more at list price with the extra options and they will be paying silly things like road tax.
> 
> I've done 6200 miles in the 5 months, that's halfway towards the first service, that's 6200 miles of tyre wear. So basically knocking all the bills back by a further 6 months. The car will always be newer, less miles and more valuable that my current car.
> 
> On the other hand I can tick the box and move on after 6 months. I've been investigating plan B today.


The car you're getting is 'worth' a lot more than £3,000 more, as you say, 6months and 6000 miles newer and no depreciation.

Sound like they've finally sorted you out with a cracking deal.


----------



## millns84

Fingers crossed that this is finally nearing an end. What a saga!


----------



## alan hanson

cant wait to see if they ask you to fill in a quick questionnaire on feedback


----------



## Marve

Bero said:


> The car you're getting is 'worth' a lot more than £3,000 more, as you say, 6months and 6000 miles newer and no depreciation.
> 
> Sound like they've finally sorted you out with a cracking deal.


It is only a whole 6 months and 6,000 miles newer because of AC and MB's incompetence. If they had sorted this out in a timely fashion, it could have been 3 weeks and 750 miles.


----------



## mike13

alan hanson said:


> cant wait to see if they ask you to fill in a quick questionnaire on feedback


Strangely when i had a disagreement in their showroom because of their attitude i mentioned to them i could not wait to fill in feedback form, it never arrived.


----------



## Kerr

The feedback forms are useless. I done that long ago. 

The email came through from Mercedes, so I filled it in a negatively as possible adding in additional comments. 

It then gave the option to send the feedback anonymously, or could they forward it to the dealer for their viewing. I allowed it to back to the dealer. 

A couple of days later I got a further email from Mercedes. This was to say Mercedes of Dundee had now resolved all matters to the customer's satisfaction. 

They hadn't even phoned me. 

So there was a further option to click to dispute this. So I clicked on that and got another email to say Mercedes would call me within 5 days. 

That call never came. 

You're all reading this thread thinking it's bad enough, but there is even more nonsense involved in this case. 

You'd never quite believe just how bad the customer service actually is. I've told the manager I'm dealing with, and her boss, just how bad it is. Not sure if they'll ever address it, but they need to do something fast. 

There is zero point phoning the first level of customer care who are based in Holland. It's just a waste of your time and phone bill as they haven't got a clue what they are doing. Not a single person I spoke to had any idea what was going on. It didn't appear they ever logged any details if a call, so every call was going over and over the same stuff. 

Then when it came to the crunch to make a decision, even with overwhelming evidence, they backed the dealer. 

If anyone is ever stuck having issues with Mercedes and can't get anywhere. I'll can forward the email address of the top people.

It must be a right pain to them with complaints landing at their feet, but I guess they'll have to address a problem when they end up doing jobs other people are employed to do.


----------



## Method Man

It sounds like a German thing. Very similar experience with VW. Atrocious. We had three in the family and now have none.

I really hope you get it all sorted out to your satisfaction. The anxiety and stress it causes isn't capable of financial measurement.


----------



## andy665

Kerr - I feel really sorry for what they have put you through. Working as I do with a manufacturer and worked with many over the years I have to say that Mercedes UK is the most pompous, arrogant and superior outfit I have ever come across.

One part of the problem is that the back office infrastructure has not grown with the increase in sales

Second part of the problem is that they now sell so many cars that one unhappy customer does not cause them a problem

Third part of the problem is incompetent head office staff at senior levels. Your problem was an easy one to resolve if the decision makers had operational experience - sadly, Mercedes UK, like virtually all manufacturers in the UK have senior staaff who have never sold a car, worked in a dealership or spoken to a customer - they have no understanding and therefore no interest in looking at things from the customer perspective

Fortunately the manufacturer I work with has a very different philosophy and one I'm proud to be associated with


I hope this gets resolved to your complete satisfaction


----------



## rojer386

Kerr, I have followed this thread from day one and I honestly can't believe that you are still in talks with this (quite clearly) incompetent brand!

I know that you've held on this long for your own reasons and my hat comes off to you for that but.....how long to sort out customer issues? Shocking behaviour and treatment from such a prestigious brand. 

Best of luck when you go and see the replacement!


----------



## Brian1612

This is precisely why I am driving 5 1/2 hrs down to Birmingham and the same back to pick up my brand new Abarth... Not dealing with AC again. 

Don't get me wrong, eventually my issues were fixed, funnily enough by the Mercedes Perth dealership I got the car from but it took an annoyingly long process of back and forth with them, all while I was driving around in a car with 4 buckled wheels they had refurbed to hide the damage and sold to me in that condition. When I got in touch with the previous owner and they informed me that when they traded the car in AC knew the car had buckled wheels, I was straight into the dealership threatening trading standards and the sale of goods act 1979, that quickly changed there tune.


----------



## Kerr

I'm going to see the car tomorrow to make up my mind. 

I've approached a few professional detailers in the area to ask if they'd come along to have a look and everyone has backed out. 

Someone backed out as they didn't want to lose potential custom. 

One has given me a recommendation of someone that will do it.

A few other people I'm not considering as they didn't fit the criteria. Just the basic response was worrying, but quite a few of them are offering full paint corrections for hundreds of pounds, but none of them own a paint thickness meter.


----------



## Cookies

Good luck chum. I hope it makes up for all the hassle. 

Cooks


----------



## Alan W

Kerr said:


> I'm going to see the car tomorrow to make up my mind.
> 
> ................ none of them own a paint thickness meter.


Kerr,

Are you wanting to check the new car's paint thickness or was this just a question you asked of the detailers to gauge how 'professional' they were?

I can give you my Defelsko PTG if you can collect from Glasgow on the way to Grangemouth.

Alan W


----------



## Kerr

Alan W said:


> Kerr,
> 
> Are you wanting to check the new car's paint thickness or was this just a question you asked of the detailers to gauge how 'professional' they were?
> 
> I can give you my Defelsko PTG if you can collect from Glasgow on the way to Grangemouth.
> 
> Alan W


It was to make sure they had the equipment to check the car to make sure all was ok.

That's a really kind offer from yourself. I should be ok.


----------



## Alan W

Kerr said:


> It was to make sure they had the equipment to check the car to make sure all was ok.
> 
> That's a really kind offer from yourself. I should be ok.


No worries, I wasn't sure. :thumb:

Good luck with the viewing and I hope it helps you reach a decision that ends this quite unbelievable saga from a supposedly prestige manufacturer. :doublesho

Alan W


----------



## Kerr

You just knew this saga wouldn't end, didn't you? :lol:

If I didn't laugh I'd be crying just now.


----------



## robertdon777

Take it the outcome isn't as you expected?


----------



## CoOkIeMoNsTeR

Oh god, what could possibly be wrong now! I must say I feel so sorry for you with this saga, didn't you have another new car problem with a Citroen a while back? It's a bad bad story and has put me off another Mercedes I can tell you! I'm sending my Aston back as I've had enough of the wind noise they've failed to fix 4 times (and damaged the window and required a new window fitting!) and I've just had it with the car. It's going back and I'm ordering a Jag. Bunch of useless idiots, must be the Mercedes influence!


----------



## Kerr

The manager asked me to give him my arrival time so the car would be ready. I arrived to find the car still parked where it was pictured days ago. Someone here sent me a picture. 

The car has been allocated a 15 plate, but hasn't been registered. 

Luckily the rain had stopped, but the car was covered in water marks and fingerprints and polish that hadn't been wiped in. 

There was more swirls that I could have predicted. Ok, these can be dealt with. There was also a couple of minor scratches.

The gloss black plastic on the doors was a mess. 

The wheels looked odd. This car had Pirelli tyres over my Dunlops, but it made the wheels look smaller with the fat rim protector. 

I thought the seats looked a little shallower. The manager says they are the same even though they have the heated element.

However when I sat in the car, it was instantly obvious there was a big problem I couldn't work around. No, not my a*** this time. 

The panoramic roof eats away a few inches of headroom and I don't fit. My head is pressed against the rim of the sunroof. It's not just close, my head will be permanently resting against it with the seat as low as it goes. 

I just didn't see this problem coming. There is no way I could live with it.


----------



## Kash-Jnr

What's the next step Kerr, AC Grangemouth are a bunch of tools, extremely disorganised. Some right stinkers on the reception desk too :lol:


----------



## Kerr

Here is the car in question.



Check out the swirls. They often don't pick up with a phone, but they did this time. Check the mess of the black plastic.

The person that had agreed to come along, didn't. So I was alone for my judgement. I couldn't quite convince myself the the car was right of not. At times I thought I could see a bit of colour, but looking back at the photograph now, I think I'm seeing different shades of red. I really should have had a gauge with me, it was planned. Not that it really matters now as the car isn't suitable at all.

See what I mean about the chunkier tyre ruining the look?

I've also just realised on the way home, I don't think the car had the correct exhaust tips. The performance exhaust is indicated by having a slat on each side of the exhaust tip. This had one piece tips.


----------



## Kerr

Kash-Jnr said:


> What's the next step Kerr, AC Grangemouth are a bunch of tools, extremely disorganised. Some right stinkers on the reception desk too :lol:


The girls working today were lovely.

The manager of Grangemouth has made it clear from the start that this car isn't anything to do with himself. He didn't want to give his opinion about it.

I arrived today, he said hello, gave me the keys and left me to it. He just went back into the office out of sight.

I went back in and got him and demonstrated the issue. He agreed and that was that.

There's no money in it for him, so he couldn't care less. I'd have thought maybe they might want to redeem Arnold Clark's name a bit, but no.

Not sure what's next. I think I should just buy a bus pass.


----------



## MDC250

Reading between the lines if AC or Merc wanted you to be happy they would have spent a few quid making sure the car was up to scratch. Seems to me they had no intention of things working out.

Clearly you are keen on this variant but put it down to experience, take your money and walk.


----------



## Rundie

Walk with your money now.


----------



## Rayaan

Hmm dont think the tyres are bad at all tbh but panoramic roof eating into head space is a major problem! Yep, been said before - walk and dont look back


----------



## rojer386

:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:


----------



## Kash-Jnr

Just get a Golf R :lol:


----------



## Rayaan

Kash-Jnr said:


> Just get a Golf R :lol:


or an M135i or an S3/RS3


----------



## Kash-Jnr

I'll be honest when I took a test drive in an A45, the interior is disappointing for a car pushing £40k.


----------



## Alfieharley1

Go 2015 Homda Type R


----------



## 182_Blue

Alfieharley1 said:


> Go 2015 Homda Type R


Is that the Chinese copy :lol:


----------



## Kerr

Kash-Jnr said:


> I'll be honest when I took a test drive in an A45, the interior is disappointing for a car pushing £40k.


The lower console isn't good enough. I had said that before. The rest is ok and not any worse than other cars in this class. It's the seats and the wheel that feels nice. The tablet thing isn't so great, but standing proud does make it easier to see and use. There is a few nice touches and some that disappoint.

I couldn't find anything that fitted the bill 100% when looking at cars. They all have flaws.

The A45 does have a charm and presence the others don't have. It is more special than the other hatches in my opinion.

It does appear that although many manufacturers offer smaller cars with all the performance of cars higher up their model range, they all seem to make sure they are a step down in quality. You get the performance for the price, but you can see where the extra money goes higher up the ranges.

I was in Perth earlier and they had a stunning M4 in an individual paint finish. It's just too much money to justify though. She'd go bonkers if I went for it.

I did ask at Audi about the RS3 out of curiosity. They have a demonstrator, but the manager uses that car and only works Monday to Friday. When looking at the Golf R and Audis before, this same situation came up time and time again.

Have your demonstrators at the garage for the usage of potential customers. It's very annoying when they are always away.

They had only slot available on the RS3 for a March 2016 delivery. It's a year wait otherwise I'm told.

I did go into Jaguar Aberdeen the other day to look at the XE S. The cars in the car park were the worst I've ever seen. They had more swirls than any cars I've seen in any dealer before. They were that bad.

They had two normal model XE in the showroom. I asked specifically about the XE S and the salesman said there was one out that back that had been sold, but I could have a look.

I thought the thing looked abandoned. It was covered in lots of dust and huge dried in seagull bombs. I'd be raging if that was the car I just bought.

They didn't even have a brochure for the XE.

I had been reading Jaguar had been working really hard with their customer care and focus, clearly they haven't visited Aberdeen yet. :lol:

There is a 16 week wait for a XE s.

I just don't know what I'm going to do. This has really angered me and will make me think twice about what I buy next.

I'll wait and see what Lauren says next week when she reads the email I've sent.


----------



## Kash-Jnr

:newbie:


Kerr said:


> The lower console isn't good enough. I had said that before. The rest is ok and not any worse than other cars in this class. It's the seats and the wheel that feels nice. The tablet thing isn't so great, but standing proud does make it easier to see and use. There is a few nice touches and some that disappoint.
> 
> I couldn't find anything that fitted the bill 100% when looking at cars. They all have flaws.
> 
> The A45 does have a charm and presence the others don't have. It is more special than the other hatches in my opinion.
> 
> It does appear that although many manufacturers offer smaller cars with all the performance of cars higher up their model range, they all seem to make sure they are a step down in quality. You get the performance for the price, but you can see where the extra money goes higher up the ranges.
> 
> I was in Perth earlier and they had a stunning M4 in an individual paint finish. It's just too much money to justify though. She'd go bonkers if I went for it.
> 
> I did ask at Audi about the RS3 out of curiosity. They have a demonstrator, but the manager uses that car and only works Monday to Friday. When looking at the Golf R and Audis before, this same situation came up time and time again.
> 
> Have your demonstrators at the garage for the usage of potential customers. It's very annoying when they are always away.
> 
> They had only slot available on the RS3 for a March 2016 delivery. It's a year wait otherwise I'm told.
> 
> I did go into Jaguar Aberdeen the other day to look at the XE S. The cars in the car park were the worst I've ever seen. They had more swirls than any cars I've seen in any dealer before. They were that bad.
> 
> They had two normal model XE in the showroom. I asked specifically about the XE S and the salesman said there was one out that back that had been sold, but I could have a look.
> 
> I thought the thing looked abandoned. It was covered in lots of dust and huge dried in seagull bombs. I'd be raging if that was the car I just bought.
> 
> They didn't even have a brochure for the XE.
> 
> I had been reading Jaguar had been working really hard with their customer care and focus, clearly they haven't visited Aberdeen yet. :lol:
> 
> There is a 16 week wait for a XE s.
> 
> I just don't know what I'm going to do. This has really angered me and will make me think twice about what I buy next.
> 
> I'll wait and see what Lauren says next week when she reads the email I've sent.


The car just seemed really plasticky and the one I went out in was an ex Arnold Clark owners car. So it pretty much had every option on it. To be honest if the customer service was better I'd have probably over sighted it but once the salesman/dealership set the tone it kind of carries on from there.

If you said 2 months ago that I'd have bought a Golf GTI, I'd have laughed but really Edinburgh VW were excellent, in terms of customer service. From the moment we arrived to the moment we left, it was all smiles. We even took an unplanned test drive in a Golf GTE which was nice and he didn't even ask for licenses etc. Unlike Audi/Merc, where you feel as though they think you might steal the car and murder the salesman. You get the feeling the product is more important than the customer when it should be the other way around.

I just hope servicing through VW is a good as BMW's! :car:


----------



## Rayaan

Grab an RCF demo lol. The Top Gear review = not many sales lol. 2015 ones can be had for £50k with 5k miles


----------



## Alfieharley1

Shaun said:


> Is that the Chinese copy :lol:


Stupid IPhones lol! Predictive crap Honda  you
Know what I meant Shaun


----------



## Kerr

Kash-Jnr said:


> :newbie:
> 
> The car just seemed really plasticky and the one I went out in was an ex Arnold Clark owners car. So it pretty much had every option on it. To be honest if the customer service was better I'd have probably over sighted it but once the salesman/dealership set the tone it kind of carries on from there.
> 
> If you said 2 months ago that I'd have bought a Golf GTI, I'd have laughed but really Edinburgh VW were excellent, in terms of customer service. From the moment we arrived to the moment we left, it was all smiles. We even took an unplanned test drive in a Golf GTE which was nice and he didn't even ask for licenses etc. Unlike Audi/Merc, where you feel as though they think you might steal the car and murder the salesman. You get the feeling the product is more important than the customer when it should be the other way around.
> 
> I just hope servicing through VW is a good as BMW's! :car:


VW out at Newcraighall?

I visited them when looking at the R when it came out. They have their( was it GTi World) office for the R. Only one guy was permitted to deal with them and I had to wait. The rest of the salesmen were doing nothing, but they did promise they had a R demo available to try.

After a long wait, turns out the manager had the car and was off on holiday for weeks.

I found their approach to dealing with customer all wrong. They were one of the many VW dealers that expect the customer to buy the car without even seeing it. That's what they all do apparently. It was all a bit snobby.

It's unusual to have problems when they are waiting on your money. It's when they've got the sale and you've got an issue, that's when you find out what is what.

I honestly don't know where I'm going next. I will confirm it won't be a Golf R though. They are just ten a penny in Aberdeen. They also seem to be owned/leased by people who have brought them a bad name. I've lost count of how many I've seen driven like idiots. They made them too cheap and many have ended up in the wrong hands.

I still have the MX5 to use, but that really isn't going to do wonders for my image either. :lol:

Passengers on the roof isn't very clever either.


----------



## RisingPower

You have an image?  Think you're old enough to get a free bus pass anyways 

I still don't know why not a 435i, it's lovely, far prefer it to a golf r or m135i or rs3.

M4 is in a completely different category :lol:


----------



## Lugy

I've been following this from the start of the thread, I'd love to say I'm shocked but with AC involved I'm not. I had the unfortunate experience of buying a car from them once, certainly not one I'm planning on trying again.
After all this crap I'd be rejecting the car, getting my money back and trying Western to gauge their attitude then go from there. They appear to have satisfied customers so you never know!


----------



## johanr77

So need to find a car that is quick, not a Golf R, not driven by plums (rules out the A45 in Aberdeen then) isn't as big as a 4 series, has a certain amount of cache that your average baseball cap wearing rig worker doesn't scream of, won't have a 1 year wait and doesn't have any chance of involvement with Arnold Clark. 

235 would be where I was looking, granted it's not a hatch but the styling is better than the hatch, it's not as big as a the 4 series and well rear doors encourage people asking for a lift.


----------



## AMG-A45

Lets hope you check the new car a bit earlier this time, save us all the headache :lol:, oh and avoid AC as you know better, well you actually knew better this time but you know what i mean 

Good luck to you in your hunt :thumb:


----------



## AMG-A45

johanr77 said:


> So need to find a car that is quick, not a Golf R, not driven by plums (rules out the A45 in Aberdeen then) isn't as big as a 4 series, has a certain amount of cache that your average baseball cap wearing rig worker doesn't scream of, won't have a 1 year wait and doesn't have any chance of involvement with Arnold Clark.
> 
> 235 would be where I was looking, granted it's not a hatch but the styling is better than the hatch, it's not as big as a the 4 series and well rear doors encourage people asking for a lift.


Is the 235i's rear faster than the front like the 135i on Topgear :lol:


----------



## johanr77

Think Jeremy made a little too much of that incident, it was entirely his fault and not the cars.


----------



## AMG-A45

johanr77 said:


> Think Jeremy made a little too much of that incident, it was entirely his fault and not the cars.


How so ?


----------



## johanr77

Car can only aquaplane if it's driven through standing water at a decent enough speed to lift the wheels off the surface. Jeremy saying the car was dangerous was incorrect, it wasn't and isn't, the way it was driven in the conditions is not how 99% of people with half a brain would drive it.


----------



## Kerr

AMG-A45 said:


> How so ?


Driving foot to the floor at 130mph with standing water is never a clever thing.

Aquaplaning on water is going to spin up the driven wheels, then spit you out.


----------



## AMG-A45

Kerr said:


> Driving foot to the floor at 130mph with standing water is never a clever thing.
> 
> Aquaplaning on water is going to spin up the driven wheels, then spit you out.


Yes i am aware of that, but why did the golf not try to kill him ?


----------



## bigmac3161

No harm but the 2 series are butt ugly u'll need all the extra performance parts to liven it up a bit. Gets really expensive really quick.


----------



## Kerr

AMG-A45 said:


> Yes i am aware of that, but why did the golf not try to kill him ?


It obviously didn't aquaplane. There's no real way of avoiding it when it's that bad. When it happens, it's already too late.

I'm sure you've hit a puddle before and the car just goes it's own way without your control? I've done it quite a few times in various cars with different wheel drive. You're just a passenger until the car stops aquaplaning.

It's not as if the BMW has poor quality tyres.

I've never been near 130mph in those conditions, but once at Crail I did some runs in the rain in my old Astra GSi turbo.

Got to the end of the 1/4 miles and there was a lot standing water. I honestly thought the car was never going to stop and it just sailed diagonally across and I didn't have any control.


----------



## Kerr

bigmac3161 said:


> No harm but the 2 series are butt ugly u'll need all the extra performance parts to liven it up a bit. Gets really expensive really quick.


That can be said for most cars though. You see the list price, then realise the tasty options soon add up to a lot of money.

It is unlikely to be a M135/235i.


----------



## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> Driving foot to the floor at 130mph with standing water is never a clever thing.
> 
> Aquaplaning on water is going to spin up the driven wheels, then spit you out.


I thought aquaplaning merely means the tyres are on a layer of water, so it'll affect both axles.


----------



## Kerr

RisingPower said:


> I thought aquaplaning merely means the tyres are on a layer of water, so it'll affect both axles.


It does.

If you spin up the wheels though, the car does still tend to move.


----------



## SteveTDCi

I do think rejecting the car because you don't fit in it because of the headroom is a valid reason, because of swirls and tyres is probably the wrong reason for rejection but again that's my opinion. We all know dealers don't prepare there cars the way we like but 99% of customers won't notice. We sold a z4 earlier this week, in my opinion the wheels should have been refurbed but the customer didn't care, now forums that's a benefit as its money we haven't spent out which means more profit.
Now we sold another z4 last week that was black. It looked a bit manly when we got it in the way black can, so I hit it with car pro fixer and reflect. I didn't spend long on it, probably 3 hours and concentrated on the bonnet. To me it was ok, to the customer it was brilliant. There were still a few marks and in 3 hours it was never going to be more than 60% but it looked 100% better.

Dealers are there to make money, however this should never be at the customers expense, if you treat them right they will remember you and will do more good for your business than most marketing will.

However I have to agree with rp, the 4 series is really nice. If you liked your 335 then you will love a 4, it moves the game on completely.


----------



## Kerr

Swirls can be rectified. Being an inch too tall isn't an easy thing to work around. :lol:


----------



## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> It does.
> 
> If you spin up the wheels though, the car does still tend to move.


Thought it was more if you turn the wheel?


----------



## Kerr

RisingPower said:


> Thought it was more if you turn the wheel?


When I've done it and my wheels spin up, I could feel the car squirming over the water and moving.

I suppose it's a bit like driving on snow and ice. You've next to no grip, but throttle input can throw you off line.


----------



## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> When I've done it and my wheels spin up, I could feel the car squirming over the water and moving.
> 
> I suppose it's a bit like driving on snow and ice. You've next to no grip, but throttle input can throw you off line.


Ahh I remember when the rtabs had gone on the m3, it was very squirmy


----------



## SteveTDCi

Yeah I agree about not fitting, so I guess its rejection and your money back - or would you be happy with a factory build ?


----------



## Kerr

SteveTDCi said:


> Yeah I agree about not fitting, so I guess its rejection and your money back - or would you be happy with a factory build ?


I'm not sure if they'd offer that. Orders taken now are for the facelift model.

I've always been against ordering a car I can't physically try it, as sometimes you just can't click or find something that isn't to my liking.

Today was the perfect example. I never once thought that the panoramic roof could make such a difference. Just imagine putting in a factory order, getting the car registered and finding out that deal killer.


----------



## andy665

The headroom issue is unfortunate and no ones fault but given the nature of the dispute / problem you'd have thought that the car would have been prepped fully before you saw it - unless you had specifically requested it not to be touched


----------



## Rayaan

Can't see why they can't just build a new car and get it here already. A customer on the Lexus forums had his new IS300H company car delivered with a dent in the fender due to careless delivery company. 

One phone call and the car was collected and a new one dropped off after 3 months


----------



## millns84

RisingPower said:


> I thought aquaplaning merely means the tyres are on a layer of water, so it'll affect both axles.


Not quite, it's literally lift and when it exceeds the weight the tyre's got over it it'll lift off the tarmac. You can actually have individual tyres aquaplane as well as either axle or all four corners.

I'm guessing the issue with the M135i was that it's got wider tyres on the rear with less weight over them.


----------



## Kash-Jnr

millns84 said:


> I'm guessing the issue with the M135i was that it's got wider tyres on the rear with less weight over them.


Exactly!

Kerr, it's the newbridge garage!


----------



## Kerr

Kash-Jnr said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Kerr, it's the newbridge garage!


I didn't realise VW had a garage there until today.

I noticed it when I was at one of the other garages. :lol:


----------



## gally

Hi Kerr, sorry to hear about your issues still, been following the thread with interest. 

Obviously any car will have marring, sadly no dealer is that far advanced yet. 

On to the cars themselvs. The new RS3 would have been a great alternative but alas it can't be bought. 

Tried to get a deposit on the new FRS yet? If nothing else you can sell your build slot!


----------



## Rayaan

Screw the A45. Get a Mustang GT lol. It'll save you some money too


----------



## Kerr

gally said:


> Hi Kerr, sorry to hear about your issues still, been following the thread with interest.
> 
> Obviously any car will have marring, sadly no dealer is that far advanced yet.
> 
> On to the cars themselvs. The new RS3 would have been a great alternative but alas it can't be bought.
> 
> Tried to get a deposit on the new FRS yet? If nothing else you can sell your build slot!


Yeah I knew the car wasn't going to be perfect, but I don't think it would be so bad. The plastic between the windows would likely have to be replaced as they had scratches rather than swirls.

I just wanted a good look at the RS3 to see if it could swing me. I haven't seen enough to convince me, but sometimes in person things happen. That said I'm told most people are hitting £50k with the must have options and there is zero discount.

Residual values on the RS3 are usually very good and if they restrict numbers, values should stay very high with the amount of Audi fans. The headline figure of £50k is a just a bit hard to swallow.

I'm not sure a FRS is for me. Again I've not seen one to form a better opinion.

I seen a dealer adverting a slot for a V8 Mustang on Autotrader. Didn't seem to be any premium on the price. Again I'd need to see and try one before parting with cash.

I did pop into BMW today to see if they had any 435i in group stock. They had a few down south. With the options they were also £50k cars. There was £7500 contributions from BMW and the dealer. I however completely forgot the 35i models will be superseeded by 40i models soon. The 428i in the showroom did look and feel nice.

Their demo car was also away with the manager, who doesn't work the weekends. Why the he'll do they all do that? I'm finding this a right pain with dealers. The RS3 yesterday was the same too.

As per Rayaan's suggestion, I did go see the Lexus RC F. I'm warming to that design a bit more. The lights and angles put me off before. The prices were too high though.

They had a carbon edition in the showroom that looked ugly. The carbon fibre bonnet and boot were so out of place.

I also went back to Mercedes. They had a couple of A45s and I just wanted to see what went wrong yesterday. That sunroof really does eat a couple of inches of headroom. It makes the car useless to me.

When I seen the prices banded about this weekend for cars, the A45 doesn't seem anywhere near as expensive as people make out.

That M4 yesterday was just so much nicer than anything else though. :argie::argie: I can't justify it. I can't justify it. I can't justify it. :lol:

Confused really doesn't cover it at the moment. I like to think and plan. Rushing in isn't my style, but if Merc ask for the car back as soon as, I will need to do something.

I'll speak to Mercedes tomorrow and see where I'm at.


----------



## RisingPower

How the **** is either the 435i or rs3 a 50k car? You'd need your fricking head examined.

Gtr, m4 or an rs3, real tough choice 

Isn't a 435i from this year with sod all miles around the 35k region?


----------



## Rayaan

RisingPower said:


> How the **** is either the 435i or rs3 a 50k car? You'd need your fricking head examined.
> 
> Gtr, m4 or an rs3, real tough choice
> 
> Isn't a 435i from this year with sod all miles around the 35k region?


What about that new Merc C450? No idea when it's actually coming out though

The 435i is being replaced so they're going quite cheap compared to their on the road price. Costs £50k with options if not careful


----------



## Kerr

RisingPower said:


> How the **** is either the 435i or rs3 a 50k car? You'd need your fricking head examined.
> 
> Gtr, m4 or an rs3, real tough choice
> 
> Isn't a 435i from this year with sod all miles around the 35k region?


The start price for a 435i is £42k. The RS3 is £40k but people want the tasty options.

There is just no value in the car market these days.

It's a bit disheartening to the see the cost of anything nice. It's unjustifiable.


----------



## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> The start price for a 435i is £42k. The RS3 is £40k but people want the tasty options.
> 
> There is just no value in the car market these days.
> 
> It's a bit disheartening to the see the cost of anything nice. It's unjustifiable.


But isn't the a45 around that old now, if not older than march. Really don't see what difference a few months makes tbh.

I also recall the gtr used to cost less, right?

Ok it's a year since registration and less than 2k miles but hubba hubba.

http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/4-Series/...98605-605085976-3497053.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_

Or this with 10 miles, virtually brand new, interesting...

http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/4-Series/...98605-605141273-3497190.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_


----------



## m4rkymark

Kerr said:


> The start price for a 435i is £42k. The RS3 is £40k but people want the tasty options.
> 
> There is just no value in the car market these days.
> 
> It's a bit disheartening to the see the cost of anything nice. It's unjustifiable.


Completely agree - prices seem to be going up and up but there seems no real reason for the prices they charge other than they can... I'm convinced they are making cars so expensive to buy that leasing is a more attractive option for a lot of people.


----------



## Kerr

RisingPower said:


> But isn't the a45 around that old now, if not older than march. Really don't see what difference a few months makes tbh.
> 
> I also recall the gtr used to cost less, right?
> 
> Ok it's a year since registration and less than 2k miles but hubba hubba.
> 
> http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/4-Series/...98605-605085976-3497053.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_
> 
> Or this with 10 miles, virtually brand new, interesting...
> 
> http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/4-Series/...98605-605141273-3497190.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_


Although the list for the 435i, with spec, was £50k, there is a £7500 contribution before any negotiation. So maximum £42.5 for a brand new car.

The black one looks quite pricey considering that. I hate those wheels too.

£35k with 10 miles is more interesting.

I'm not sure what your question about the A45 is. I did get it in March.


----------



## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> Although the list for the 435i, with spec, was £50k, there is a £7500 contribution before any negotiation. So maximum £42.5 for a brand new car.
> 
> The black one looks quite pricey considering that. I hate those wheels too.
> 
> £35k with 10 miles is more interesting.
> 
> I'm not sure what your question about the A45 is. I did get it in March.


I like the black on black  Thing is, what is with the discs on the one with delivery mileage?

My question is, given you've had it for like, some months now, would you really be fussed about a car being those few months old?

Either way, I love the 435i. Not as much as an m4, but, I still love it 

Whereas an rs3 does nothing for me.


----------



## Kerr

RisingPower said:


> I like the black on black  Thing is, what is with the discs on the one with delivery mileage?
> 
> My question is, given you've had it for like, some months now, would you really be fussed about a car being those few months old?
> 
> Either way, I love the 435i. Not as much as an m4, but, I still love it
> 
> Whereas an rs3 does nothing for me.


Everything comes down to cost.

If there is a huge discount to be had on a pre registered car, or a nearly new car, I'd be happy with that.

Used cars are also costly. Nothing is cheap these days.


----------



## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> Everything comes down to cost.
> 
> If there is a huge discount to be had on a pre registered car, or a nearly new car, I'd be happy with that.
> 
> Used cars are also costly. Nothing is cheap these days.


Yay, get the delivery mileage one then  Sorted.

Looking at the rs3 sportback, wtf is it supposed to be? The equivalent of a mini clubman or fiat 500 mpv?


----------



## Kerr

RisingPower said:


> Yay, get the delivery mileage one then  Sorted.
> 
> Looking at the rs3 sportback, wtf is it supposed to be? The equivalent of a mini clubman or fiat 500 mpv?


I'm really unsure of the design too. I'd like to see though.

I'm over in Budapest next week so won't have a chance to sort anything out. I wonder if cars are cheap in Hungary?


----------



## SteveTDCi

I think the problem with used is that with the discounts, leasing and pcp being so cheap on new cars it's pointless in buying anything newer than 18 months old. After 18 months used cars seem to be a better proposition. The rs3 does sound epic though, having driven a new shape s3 and the 420d both have very nice interiors, the BMW being more cosseting the Audi being better finished. 4 series with BMW performance parts would get my vote.


----------



## Kerr

I did look at the 4 series prior to getting the A45. I just fancied a change from BMW. 

They had a 428i in the showroom yesterday and it does feel good to sit in. There is something nicer about the low seating position in a coupe.

Hopefully I'll get an email today from Merc to say how things are going to progress now.


----------



## lofty

I was in the same boat a few months ago. I looked at new M3/M4, CLA/A45 and new and used C63. I eventually went for a two year old C63. Its the first sensible decision I've made on a car for a long time  I was very tempted by the M3, its not as pretty as the M4 but looks more purposeful, the interior with full leather is also very nice, I've seen deals of 15% off list mentioned so its a decent buy at those prices. The new C63 is also very nice, the interior (apart from the Ipad screen) is one of the best around, discounts were still a bit tight with it being a new model, so I knew i'd loose my shirt on that one so stayed away for now. For £36k I got a two year old C63 from a MB dealer with a two year warranty, for £45 per month I also get two years servicing. Its by no means a cheap car, but by buying used with a warranty and service pack its not too bad.


----------



## Bero

lofty said:


> I was in the same boat a few months ago. I looked at new M3/M4, CLA/A45 and new and used C63. I eventually went for a two year old C63. Its the first sensible decision I've made on a car for a long time  I was very tempted by the M3, its not as pretty as the M4 but looks more purposeful, the interior with full leather is also very nice, I've seen deals of 15% off list mentioned so its a decent buy at those prices. The new C63 is also very nice, the interior (apart from the Ipad screen) is one of the best around, discounts were still a bit tight with it being a new model, so I knew i'd loose my shirt on that one so stayed away for now. For £36k I got a two year old C63 from a MB dealer with a two year warranty, for £45 per month I also get two years servicing. Its by no means a cheap car, but by buying used with a warranty and service pack its not too bad.


Kerr - ^ lofty is a sensible man......listen to his advice...last chance for a saloon with this type on engine.


----------



## Kerr

I still do a fair amount of miles, so I'd need to think carefully about 15 mpg.

I went back to the Jaguar dealer today. The XE S is still sitting in the yard and still covered in bird poo. Hopefully none of it has burned in for the new owner. It didn't have a plate last week, so must be getting ready to go out tomorrow.


----------



## Kash-Jnr

Kerr said:


> I'm really unsure of the design too. I'd like to see though.
> 
> I'm over in Budapest next week so won't have a chance to sort anything out. I wonder if cars are cheap in Hungary?


Everything is cheap there. :lol:

If you're looking at a 435i, I wouldn't count out the 435d xDrive. Both great cars but the 435i slower than a m135i which is disheartening, I think anyway, last time I checked.

That XE looks :argie: , is that the one with the F type engine?


----------



## Kerr

Kash-Jnr said:


> Everything is cheap there. :lol:
> 
> If you're looking at a 435i, I wouldn't count out the 435d xDrive. Both great cars but the 435i slower than a m135i which is disheartening, I think anyway, last time I checked.
> 
> That XE looks :argie: , is that the one with the F type engine?


The 435i will be replaced with the 440i soon. It'll still be a little slower than a M135i given the weight.

I'm not going for a diesel. Xdrive also means you don't get sport suspension.

Yes the Jag has the same 3.0 supercharged engine.


----------



## Kash-Jnr

Kerr said:


> The 435i will be replaced with the 440i soon. It'll still be a little slower than a M135i given the weight.
> 
> I'm not going for a diesel. Xdrive also means you don't get sport suspension.
> 
> Yes the Jag has the same 3.0 supercharged engine.


Isn't it just a name change, doubt it will be completely revised, just a refresh.

XEs comes in at about £39k with one or two options, think its the black pack and tints, if I remember correctly. I'd have that any day over an 435i/440i, can't be doing with 2 doors anymore, bit of a pita. Unless you don't have any mates then you're fine :lol:


----------



## millns84

Must admit those XE's look better every time I look at one, and the supercharged one looks fantastic.


----------



## Kerr

Kash-Jnr said:


> Isn't it just a name change, doubt it will be completely revised, just a refresh.
> 
> XEs comes in at about £39k with one or two options, think its the black pack and tints, if I remember correctly. I'd have that any day over an 435i/440i, can't be doing with 2 doors anymore, bit of a pita. Unless you don't have any mates then you're fine :lol:


The 40i is a new engine. It will have 322bhp and 332lb/ft torque.


----------



## gally

Lofty is a man with taste and some sense.


----------



## RisingPower

I... don't like the XE. Nothing like as nice as the 435i imo, or the c63. Besides, a saloon? Really?


----------



## RisingPower

Kash-Jnr said:


> Everything is cheap there. :lol:
> 
> If you're looking at a 435i, I wouldn't count out the 435d xDrive. Both great cars but the 435i slower than a m135i which is disheartening, I think anyway, last time I checked.
> 
> That XE looks :argie: , is that the one with the F type engine?


The m135i is fugly though, the 435i looks really nice.


----------



## lofty

I'm not sure me buying a 6.2 V8 is that sensible  , but compared to some of my previous cars it probably is. I don't do many miles in it as I also have a van as a daily driver, so the mpg isn't a major concern to me but realise it could be for some. Having said that, depreciation is usually the biggest cost of running a car so by buying used I have been reasonably sensible this time around. I do like the new XE S, an XE with a V8 might tempt be back to Jaguar for my next car, although my local dealers are crap so that may or may not happen.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Hasn't the xe-s already beaten the 340i in group test ?


----------



## Kash-Jnr

RisingPower said:


> The m135i is fugly though, the 435i looks really nice.


Once you get inside, its hard to remember how bad she looks :lol:


----------



## Alan W

Kash-Jnr said:


> Once you get inside, its hard to remember how bad she looks :lol:


Until you see a reflection in a shop window! :lol:

Alan W


----------



## Kash-Jnr

Alan W said:


> Until you see a reflection in a shop window! :lol:
> 
> Alan W


Actually side profile isn't too bad Alan! :lol:


----------



## Kerr

I've never had a problem with the M135i. I don't see it as any worse than any of the other similar hatches.


----------



## Alan W

Kash-Jnr said:


> Actually side profile isn't too bad Alan! :lol:


You think so! :lol: (Only joking! )

I was given the keys to a new facelifted M135i last week and had a very enjoyable blast in it! :thumb:

For the performance on offer it's a veritable bargain! :doublesho

Alan W


----------



## RisingPower

Kash-Jnr said:


> Actually side profile isn't too bad Alan! :lol:


The side profile is the worst bit for me. It's like, when the z3 came out, I thought it looked horrendous, really odd proportions, I still don't like it.

The front, just looks like a 1 series, which is fine, the back, looks like a normal hatch.

The 1m coupe is pretty nice, but the m135i.... Though I still don't get why the 1m commands such a ridiculous premium.

To me, it's like the rs3 sportback or a fiat 500 mpv or a mini fricking ginormous clubman. Just, why?

Presumably the m135i is pretty much like most other bmws inside?


----------



## Kash-Jnr

RisingPower said:


> The side profile is the worst bit for me. It's like, when the z3 came out, I thought it looked horrendous, really odd proportions, I still don't like it.
> 
> The front, just looks like a 1 series, which is fine, the back, looks like a normal hatch.
> 
> The 1m coupe is pretty nice, but the m135i.... Though I still don't get why the 1m commands such a ridiculous premium.
> 
> To me, it's like the rs3 sportback or a fiat 500 mpv or a mini fricking ginormous clubman. Just, why?
> 
> Presumably the m135i is pretty much like most other bmws inside?


I thought everyone hated the front cause of the huge headlights :lol:









For reference :lol:









I think it has good angles down the side









Interior wise, like you said, pretty much standard BMW. 








Here's another one lol. To hurt your eyes. 
Any excuse to share pictures of the sorely missed


----------



## RisingPower

Dude there are no side profiles there  I like the 1m coupe just fine with its lights.

Side, dead on, I really can't like the m135i. It's fine so long as you don't look at it dead side on.

Just.. what is this?










Compare it with 1m


----------



## Kerr

RisingPower said:


> The side profile is the worst bit for me. It's like, when the z3 came out, I thought it looked horrendous, really odd proportions, I still don't like it.
> 
> The front, just looks like a 1 series, which is fine, the back, looks like a normal hatch.
> 
> The 1m coupe is pretty nice, but the m135i.... Though I still don't get why the 1m commands such a ridiculous premium.
> 
> To me, it's like the rs3 sportback or a fiat 500 mpv or a mini fricking ginormous clubman. Just, why?
> 
> Presumably the m135i is pretty much like most other bmws inside?


The 1M is a nice car, but the premiums are extreme. Would have made a great buy to have one for 4-5 years and get most of your money back now.

They just seem a pointless buy to me, as you're getting none of the benefits the original owner did, such as a new car and a warranty, plus they aren't quite as fast as newer cars.

I guess it's all down to the exclusivity. I see one most days, but other than that, I don't remember the last time I seen another one.

On the A45 front, I heard nothing today. I forgot you guys down south had another bank holiday.


----------



## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> The 1M is a nice car, but the premiums are extreme. Would have made a great buy to have one for 4-5 years and get most of your money back now.
> 
> They just seem a pointless buy to me, as you're getting none of the benefits the original owner did, such as a new car and a warranty, plus they aren't quite as fast as newer cars.
> 
> I guess it's all down to the exclusivity. I see one most days, but other than that, I don't remember the last time I seen another one.
> 
> On the A45 front, I heard nothing today. I forgot you guys down south had another bank holiday.


It's silly what you're paying to have for something that isn't even that unusual.

You don't have a bank holiday today?


----------



## RisingPower

Here we go, it reminds me exactly of this, which I also don't like.


----------



## Kerr

RisingPower said:


> It's silly what you're paying to have for something that isn't even that unusual.
> 
> You don't have a bank holiday today?


I think there only ever was 450 of them here. That's pretty unusual.

Not today and clearly not as many as you guys do. It seems to be a bank holiday every other week with you skivers.


----------



## svended

Just phoned Arnold Clark body shop in North Cumbria and they've had our car waiting for three weeks for parts when they finally called for us to take our car in. It was supposed to be a two week turn around for two doors and a passenger side door sill. It was then pushed back a week as they only had one painter, the four days ago it was being prepped for paint and we were to have it back yesterday, then today with still no car I phone and it's being painted today and will be rebuilt tomorrow for us to pick up tomorrow. 
I asked if the car will be baked and when I can seal the car to which he replied "sealed?", I said "yes, waxed, sealed etc...", he said yes I can polish it right away. I then asked if it will be 'gased off' to 'seal with a coating' to which he replied "gased off, I've never heard of that and I'm a painter!". 
7So will we get the car back? Can we finally be rid of this crap base model Ford Fiesta 1.0Ecoboost? and will I probably want to cry and burn the car to the ground on site of their diar paint skills?


----------



## alan hanson

RisingPower said:


> Dude there are no side profiles there  I like the 1m coupe just fine with its lights.
> 
> Side, dead on, I really can't like the m135i. It's fine so long as you don't look at it dead side on.
> 
> Just.. what is this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compare it with 1m


i can't stand those wheels they look far too small and pathetic to be on such cars of that price! 1 series hatch back is just wrong regardless of perfomance


----------



## slim_boy_fat

RisingPower said:


> Here we go, it reminds me exactly of this, which I also don't like.


They nicknamed those "The Bread Van"....:driver:


----------



## eddie bullit

I can't believe that this is still ongoing!


----------



## Starbuck88

Any more for anymore news?


----------



## Kerr

She emailed early last week to say she would have it finalised before the week was out for an internal buy off. 

I didn't hear anything. 

I emailed her earlier, but not heard back yet. 

Just out playing with potential replacements at the moment.


----------



## SteveTDCi

I'm off to collect an m135i for stock


----------



## bidderman1969

SteveTDCi said:


> I'm off to collect an m135i for stock


What is it you do for a job? Coz I want it, :lol:


----------



## Kerr

I had a test drive of this today.


The thing has clearly had a hard life as a demo. Every single wheel is kerbed, chunks out of 3 of the tyres, the front splitter has been bumped, the bumper and wing is scuffed plus an extra few scratches.



















Ignoring the poor condition of the car and quite possibly the worst option combination you could pick for the car, I was given the keys to go play.

It's definitely more refined and grown up than the A45. It feel faster than the A45, but it's barely quicker. The engine just pulls better. The engine is a nice thing. The ride is smoother than the A45..

The gearbox is a bit better. I do hear there is a very good software update for the box for the A45.

Inside I did expect more. The seats aren't as nice to sit in and look ugly in white. That's the upgraded seats too. The steering wheel and gear knob aren't as nice as the A45. There is far more plastic than I was expecting to see. It wasn't anywhere near as premium as people have made out.

It's most definitely the case that performance cars in this class all have interiors that are a big step down from bigger cars. You're paying for the performance, but losing out on quality inside.

It is a fast, refined hatch. It seems smooth for real world driving, but not a top handling car.

I did like it, but it wasn't special like people make out.

Then there was the other issue, just trying not to go mental and tick all the boxes, the price was still £47,500. There was so many other boxes that'd I'd like to tick, but £50k would be very easy to exceed.

There is a big wait and that should keep values high.


----------



## RisingPower

Those rear seats, an afterthought right? In what looks to be an estate :lol:

I am impressed at how thin the tyres look and how there's no curb protection on pretty cheap looking wheels.


----------



## empsburna

That dash doesn't seem to be well designed. I don't know if it is the photo but that *** lighter socket looks like an afterthought.


----------



## SteveTDCi

We have the new s3 in stock and I've just collected an m135i for stock, I would have the m135i every single time. How about a used Cayman or is that not practical enough ?


----------



## Kerr

SteveTDCi said:


> We have the new s3 in stock and I've just collected an m135i for stock, I would have the m135i every single time. How about a used Cayman or is that not practical enough ?


I could be doing with 4 seats. We've got two cars and the other is an MX5, so it'll be hard having so little practicality.

I'm not sure what to do. I've had a look around Aberdeen and the price of cars is just silly. I've already had enough looking.


----------



## SteveTDCi

If it makes you feel better we like Aberdeen as they are cheaper north of the wall  have you tried the m135i or m235i ? I know you wanted something different to the 335i and having driven a couple of them I would choose the m135i every time.


----------



## Kerr

I'll be back down in the central belt at the weekend. Cars are cheaper there. Looking at some used cars today, a few were £4-5k over the guide price by Parkers. 

I honestly can't even think myself where I'll head this time, there is just no value at the moment. 

I was planning to move back to a manual box. Speaking to a guy that owns a little dealer of performance cars, he advised me against it. He says they struggle to move on manuals in anything with a badge these days. He says demand and values are too low.

I'm waiting on a couple of calls back, but I wouldn't say I'm remotely close to making a decision, unless it's too cheap to refuse.


----------



## SteveTDCi

We still sell z4's in both manual and auto and never had an issue with 335i's either, but the 8spd really is a nice box.


----------



## bidderman1969

RisingPower said:


> *Those rear seats, an afterthought right? In what looks to be an estate* :lol:
> 
> I am impressed at how thin the tyres look and how there's no curb protection on pretty cheap looking wheels.


i thought that!

in my KIA, you can have the front seat right back, and still have reasonable legroom, i know its not a snobby brand, but miles bloody better than this car!

(i expect my boot is probably bigger too)


----------



## Kerr

I got another email back from her today after chasing her up yesterday. She wasn't very clear who was off, but apparently absenteeism was to blame for the delay. She's been off a couple of times when key things are due to happen.

So the agreement that was to be finalised last week, was now due to be finalised today. However what the agreement was last week, and what was suggested today, has changed. 

I was quick to pull her up about that this afternoon, but didn't hear back. 

An email did go to her boss tonight as I'm really tired of her chopping and changing. I think deep down she tries her best, but I really don't think she knows what she is doing. 

The catalogue of errors just mounts up by the day.


----------



## bidderman1969

Ffs……


----------



## SteveTDCi

In her defence she probably has to fend people off and doesn't actually have the power to make a decision.


----------



## Starbuck88

Maybe it's time to get a bit stern with them, get them on the phone and don't let them off until something is resolved. Tell them you are willing to stay on the phone and unless THEY purposefully hang up on you, you aren't going anywhere.

Enough is enough now surely, this is just awful.


----------



## Cookies

Auto Express time Kerr. Enough is enough. 

Cooks


----------



## m4rkymark

^^ what he said.


----------



## Kerr

When I wrote to her boss earlier, I did include a screenshot of the email offer. 

I've also highlighted that between here and the Merc site, there has already been 35,000 views. It's attention they could be better to avoid.


----------



## Starbuck88

Kerr said:


> When I wrote to her boss earlier, I did include a screenshot of the email offer.
> 
> I've also highlighted that between here and the Merc site, there has already been 35,000 views. It's attention they could be better to avoid.


If this were me, I'd be on the phone to them multiple times a day chasing what's happening, especially by now, it's gone on for so long I can't believe it.

35,000 views don't count for much when most will be repeated views by us lot following the thread, those that search for something, then 'bounce' when it's not what they're looking for.

Auto Express on the other hand is a credible threat.

This should be moved to Def Con status and dealt with now as they aren't taking you seriously and from what I can see and what you tell us, you seem to always go along with it due to your seemingly kind and friendly nature.

Time to take a stand and get things sorted.


----------



## m4rkymark

Kerr said:


> When I wrote to her boss earlier, I did include a screenshot of the email offer.
> 
> I've also highlighted that between here and the Merc site, there has already been 35,000 views. It's attention they could be better to avoid.


It may be 35000 views but it's a relatively small amount of readers who look every time they log on - national magazine coverage is way more damaging than a couple of forums with a relatively small readership.

I think they are taking the **** now and should have it sorted Asap but understand it may suit more to have a car to run about in rather than have the money back and no transport.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Trouble is nobody believes a thing auto express print, I take no notice of it and there are plenty of comments about there reviews


----------



## johanr77

SteveTDCi said:


> Trouble is nobody believes a thing auto express print, I take no notice of it and there are plenty of comments about there reviews


Yeah Auto Express are a bit of a laugh for me, their ****ed off customer articles are as strong as a wet fart in a hurricane. They probably will get some kind of response from Arnold Clark and Mercedes but I doubt it would be to Kerr's satisfaction.

And then there is the article itself with those hard hitting photos.

Kerr will be expected to sit on or in his A45 with a disgruntled face.

Kerr will be expected to stand beside his A45 with a disgruntled face and holding a stack of paper to signify the huge amount of e-mail traffic he's been involved in.


----------



## Cookies

Sorry Guys but I don't agree. 

Auto Express can intervene and appear to have been successful in achieving a positive outcome for many customers. It's not about whether people believe the reviews, it's about the potential for negative publicity for the manufacturer and dealership. The PR folk will want to mitigate any damage done by offering something in an attempt to resolve the situation. That something will be a whole lot more than Kerr has received to date. Auto Express will also achieve a sense of urgency that to date hasn't appeared.

It's what I would do. Whatever route Kerr chooses to go down, I hope he gets sorted. 

Cooks


----------



## Sicskate

I've been trying to follow this, but have we actually seen pictures of the damage yet??


----------



## Alan W

Sicskate said:


> I've been trying to follow this, but have we actually seen pictures of the damage yet??


Post 56. 

Alan W


----------



## Kerr

Sicskate said:


> I've been trying to follow this, but have we actually seen pictures of the damage yet??


It's not easy to picture, but very noticeable in person.

That shot above was from day one, before I even had seen the damage. It also doesn't help it's from Photobucket quality.

Both pillars have a series of dents, twists, compression marks.


----------



## eddie bullit

Could you not put this in the hands of a lawyer or legal team? It seems a very long time for them to have your money for goods or services they have not provided.


----------



## Andyg_TSi

Kerr,

I really don't know how you've managed to keep your cool for so long mate.

I'd send one more email stating enough is enough, give them a deadline either

1. This is settled to your satisfaction within 5 days or

2. Your taking legal advice with reference to the sale of goods act & will be approaching Watchdog or other similar consumer champion to publicise this total mess......'Don't get mad, get Dom' is another good one.

How would they like 20+ million viewers in the UK to know exactly how Mercedes & Arnold Clarke treat their customers when something goes awry


----------



## Bigstuff

eddie bullit said:


> Could you not put this in the hands of a lawyer or legal team? It seems a very long time for them to have your money for goods or services they have not provided.


Tbh arnold and merc are taking the **** now because you haven't done this. Your being taken for a mug.


----------



## Bero

eddie bullit said:


> Could you not put this in the hands of a lawyer or legal team? It seems a very long time for them to have your money for goods or services they have not provided.


I don't think Kerr is going to hire a 'legal team' to get this resolved?!


----------



## bidderman1969

Bigstuff said:


> Tbh arnold and merc are taking the **** now because you haven't done this. Your being taken for a mug.


you and them may think Kerr is being taken for "a mug", but he's done everything right so far by dialoging everything to date, will be worth it in the long run when it comes down to what they did or didn't say/do :thumb:


----------



## eddie bullit

Bero said:


> I don't think Kerr is going to hire a 'legal team' to get this resolved?!


So he won't a have used a lawyer before? "legal team" not usually a one man band working out of a bed sit 
Its just a pity Arnold clark weren't as pedantic


----------



## Kerr

eddie bullit said:


> So he won't a have used a lawyer before? "legal team" not usually a one man band working out of a bed sit
> Its just a pity Arnold clark weren't as pedantic


As the case stands just now, Arnold Clark are supposed to be out of the equation. Mercedes admitted liability for the damage, we're going down a manufacturing defect as the official reason for the damage. A couple of bodyshops say it is due to a poor press of the panels.

I've used a lawyer once in my life, but that's another story. :lol:

Mercedes at Milton Keynes organised the replacement car through one of the local dealers. I can't prove for certain that they had any idea the car that was offered as a replacement was substandard and hadn't been prepared correctly. They are 400 miles away and dealing over the phone and by email, it certainly isn't the way things should be done.

At this stage I don't need a legal team or solicitor. I'm protected by consumer laws and Mercedes know this. I've been in contact with various bodies, including Trading Standards, for advice on this matter.

The case has been in charge of Mercedes for 10-11 weeks now. They were really supposed to have the case wrapped up after 8, but things, as you've probably read, didn't work out. It isn't as if they haven't done anything.

I can't prove how much they knew about the replacement car, but obviously the headroom issue could have never been seen as they don't have a clue how tall I am. All the other issues I think they will have been oblivious to.

We aren't massively outside the timescales allowed by consumer laws.

There is no need to employ an expensive legal team when they can only do what Trading Standards will eventually do for me at the right time.

Things have been happening, although slowly, and going wrong too.

I have kept my cool right through this, although it's not easy, as there is no point losing your cool. There's nothing worse than dealing with some gob **** that is behaving unreasonably. People don't want to help people that aren't civilised to them.

My discussions with Mercedes have usually been good. The girl I'm dealing with seems really nice. I do think she tries, but just isn't that great at her job.

The other day I did write an email to her boss to say I wasn't happy with how the case has progressed lately and wanted further assistance. I did say I wasn't happy with all that happened.

She's in charge of the case, so ultimately she is responsible for what has gone wrong lately. Maybe Arnold Clark are really responsible, but she's my point of contact and she's the one requesting things to be done at Arnold Clark. Her call to do that, it's gone wrong, so it is her fault.

On the back of my email I sent to her boss, she got snappy with me yesterday. The tone of her email was very short. He hasn't responded yet but I'm told he was out of the office yesterday.

I did highlight to her that I had raised it with her boss and she let me know she already knew about the email. She claims that her boss knows all about the case.

Sitting here behind emails, I've no idea if he really did know everything. All I know is things aren't satisfactory from my position.

I'm not sure if she's upset as I've basically said I'm not happy with her, or her boss has had a go at her as he has learned some stuff she might have not said.

Hopefully by Monday she has calmed down. I'm sure she's as fed up dealing with me as I am dealing with Mercedes. It must have cost them a fortune in working hours dealing with this case.

I'll do all I have to do and I'm doing as much as I can. I think the advice I have been given is accurate and I'm doing things the right way.

Rest assured I will get there in the end no matter what it takes.


----------



## eddie bullit

Good luck! Let's hope this gets resolved for you soon.


----------



## Kash-Jnr

If you get a remotely satisfactory outcome I'd be surprised.


----------



## Rayaan

They're definitely dragging it out. 

Damn, the MBClub isn't too friendly is it? Appear to be a place full of people dissing every other car brand for different things and claiming that Merc is the best in the world! Understandable for a car you own but completely out of proportion!


----------



## Clancy

Mercedes will go out of business before you get a car at this rate


----------



## Rayaan

Clancy said:


> Mercedes will go out of business before you get a car at this rate


LOL nah doubt it. Id assume all the Merc owners will just buy another Merc thinking it'd be a better experience when in truth, that's hardly the case


----------



## MDC250

Rayaan said:


> Damn, the MBClub isn't too friendly is it?!


You were posting on a Merc forum saying Merc is "pants", bound to wind some of that forum's members up


----------



## Rayaan

MDC250 said:


> You were posting on a Merc forum saying Merc is "pants", bound to wind some of that forum's members up


Hehe I know lol but they needed it - its every week I see a a new thread saying "BMW's Crap, Lexus is ugly, Mercedes is the best, Jaguar is for old people, Audi driver's suck eggs" etc etc


----------



## MDC250

There is a thread for members defecting to other brands 

Kerr, hope you are in the home straight now and have been able to single out a replacement. In honour of Rayaan got to say was behind an IS-F the other day, it had a fair bit of presence IMO


----------



## Rayaan

MDC250 said:


> There is a thread for members defecting to other brands
> 
> Kerr, hope you are in the home straight now and have been able to single out a replacement. In honour of Rayaan got to say was behind an IS-F the other day, it had a fair bit of presence IMO


That gets hostile too lol - I'd love to see an IS-F on the road! Only ever driven one, which isn't the same as you can't see it from outside!!


----------



## knightstemplar

Rayaan said:


> Hehe I know lol but they needed it - its every week I see a a new thread saying "BMW's Crap, Lexus is ugly, Mercedes is the best, Jaguar is for old people, Audi driver's suck eggs" etc etc


Because its all true!


----------



## Rayaan

knightstemplar said:


> Because its all true!


Haha Im assuming you drive a Mercedes? But you seem like a decent guy so Im assuming its not not a 14 plate or newer hahaha!


----------



## knightstemplar

Rayaan said:


> Haha Im assuming you drive a Mercedes? But you seem like a decent guy so Im assuming its not not a 14 plate or newer hahaha!


It's a 64 plate E Class Convertible, no problems at all, and in Mercedes defence the dealer could not do enough for me, delivered car from Huddersfield to North East on a low loader which the delivery driver marked a wheel so they took it all the way back, ordered a new wheel and sent a new car for me to borrow to drive to Aberdeen which sat up there for two weeks while I was offshore. They had my new car delivered onto my drive while I was away made sure I was totally happy with it before coming to pick the car they borrowed to me 5 days later. Best experience I have had buying a new car, and I've had a few . They even paid for me and the missus to go for a meal to say sorry for driver damaging the wheel, can't complain about free food:lol:


----------



## chris.t

knightstemplar said:


> It's a 64 plate E Class Convertible, no problems at all, and in Mercedes defence the dealer could not do enough for me, delivered car from Huddersfield to North East on a low loader which the delivery driver marked a wheel so they took it all the way back, ordered a new wheel and sent a new car for me to borrow to drive to Aberdeen which sat up there for two weeks while I was offshore. They had my new car delivered onto my drive while I was away made sure I was totally happy with it before coming to pick the car they borrowed to me 5 days later. Best experience I have had buying a new car, and I've had a few . They even paid for me and the missus to go for a meal to say sorry for driver damaging the wheel, can't complain about free food:lol:


Thats the differance between a proper dealer and arnold clark


----------



## Rayaan

knightstemplar said:


> It's a 64 plate E Class Convertible, no problems at all, and in Mercedes defence the dealer could not do enough for me, delivered car from Huddersfield to North East on a low loader which the delivery driver marked a wheel so they took it all the way back, ordered a new wheel and sent a new car for me to borrow to drive to Aberdeen which sat up there for two weeks while I was offshore. They had my new car delivered onto my drive while I was away made sure I was totally happy with it before coming to pick the car they borrowed to me 5 days later. Best experience I have had buying a new car, and I've had a few . They even paid for me and the missus to go for a meal to say sorry for driver damaging the wheel, can't complain about free food:lol:


TBF Mercedes Huddersfield is OK - thats where my car was from.


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## bmerritt87

My last 2 cars were from Mercedes Huddersfield and have to agree, a different class compared to what Ive had before. I asked for a test drive on my current car, and he threw me the keys and said just bring back before 6pm, and did me a great deal. That said it's the sales manager that is the best guy to deal with, as he is the one who actually makes the decisions, rather than the sales guy.


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## Rayaan

bmerritt87 said:


> My last 2 cars were from Mercedes Huddersfield and have to agree, a different class compared to what Ive had before. I asked for a test drive on my current car, and he threw me the keys and said just bring back before 6pm, and did me a great deal. That said it's the sales manager that is the best guy to deal with, as he is the one who actually makes the decisions, rather than the sales guy.


Agree - I hate sitting there when the sales guy keeps going to his manager (Basically trying to get out of hard negotiations for a while) - dealing with the manager is so much better and yes, they do give better deals than the Sales guys from my experience.


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## RD55 DUN




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## Starbuck88

In reference to above:

Footage has emerged of a furious Mercedes-Benz S63 AMG owner using a golf club to smash his expensive German luxury sedan in China.

The 33-year-old owner was protesting the poor service from his local Mercedes-Benz dealership. It is reported that the S-Class’s engine stopping running on three separate occasions. The owner then took the car back to the local Mercedes dealer who apparently promised to exchange the car if the engine suddenly stopped again.

When the engine did in fact stall for a fourth time while the driver was behind the wheel with his family on board, he immediately headed back to the dealership. The dealership workers told him that they couldn’t do anything until their boss returned from an ongoing business trip.

Not satisfied with this explanation, the frustrated owner decided to take things into his own hands. He grabbed a gold club out of the boot and swiftly set about smashing the body panels, windows as well as the headlights and taillights of the expensive super-sedan.


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## Kerr

I'm not quite ready to do something like that yet.


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## empsburna

Proper falling down moment.


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## cadmunkey

Not sure he will get a replacement now!!


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## Rayaan

cadmunkey said:


> Not sure he will get a replacement now!!


Id assume he probably thought of that! 

Probably got enough money to blow that it doesn't matter!


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## SteveTDCi

Or didn't realise it had stop start ......


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## RD55 DUN

SteveTDCi said:


> Or didn't realise it had stop start ......


:doublesho oh dear! Maybe lol!


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## millns84

SteveTDCi said:


> Or didn't realise it had stop start ......


That would be spectacular! Possibly one of the best fails ever :lol:


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## Rayaan

millns84 said:


> That would be spectacular! Possibly one of the best fails ever :lol:


I would have thought it wouldnt "stop/start" on the move though lol


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## Starbuck88

Coming to the end of another week? Any more news?


----------



## Kerr

The customer service manager I've been dealing with has become much slower recently. Normally she would respond pretty fast, not so much now. 

After upsetting her last week, it was Tuesday before she emailed. The email in the morning said she'd update me in the afternoon. That didn't come. 

I chased her up on Wednesday and didn't get a response until Thursday. 

I'm told that we need to have the case signed off at 3 levels. The sign off just has to happen by their director now. 

Hopefully this goes smoothly, but for some reason I'm not fully confident. :lol:


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## Starbuck88

Not sure how many times I've said this to you now Kerr but....hopefully then, fingers crossed, the end is nigh.


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## robertdon777

Nice to get the outcome soon ready for the deposit on the New Focus RS.


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## Kerr

robertdon777 said:


> Nice to get the outcome soon ready for the deposit on the New Focus RS.


I don't think a Focus is for me. I didn't really want a hatch before the A45.

I've still no idea where I'm going, but at least 2 extra cylinders is the chain of thought at the moment.


----------



## Starbuck88

Kerr said:


> I don't think a Focus is for me. I didn't really want a hatch before the A45.
> 
> I've still no idea where I'm going, but at least 2 extra cylinders is the chain of thought at the moment.


BMW 4 Series it is then?


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## empsburna

Starbuck88 said:


> BMW 4 Series it is then?


Don't buses have ten cylinder engines?


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## Kerr

Starbuck88 said:


> BMW 4 Series it is then?


Until it's on the drive, I'm saying nothing.


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## slim_boy_fat

Kerr said:


> Until it's on the drive, I'm saying nothing.


So..........that's a "Yes" then


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## Kerr

Got an email from Mercedes today. The return has been approved. They've asked me to take the car back to Dundee though. Awkward. :lol: There could be another story to come yet. :lol:

I've been asked no name a day suitable to me, so that's likely to be towards the end of this week if all goes to plan.


I've honestly got nothing set yet. Loads of ideas but nothing in place. I have been looking hard but have realised that the cars and specification I'm looking for are few and far between. The choice is really awful up this far North.


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## Marve

Kerr said:


> I've honestly got nothing set yet. Loads of ideas but nothing in place. I have been looking hard but have realised that the cars and specification I'm looking for are few and far between. The choice is really awful up this far North.


Have you considered a Mercedes A45 AMG? I think Arnold Clark in Dundee has a decent reputation. That must be not far from you?


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## Bero

Marve said:


> Have you considered a Mercedes A45 AMG? I think Arnold Clark in Dundee has a decent reputation. That must be not far from you?


+1 Can't go wrong with them. :thumb:


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## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> Got an email from Mercedes today. The return has been approved. They've asked me to take the car back to Dundee though. Awkward. :lol: There could be another story to come yet. :lol:
> 
> I've been asked no name a day suitable to me, so that's likely to be towards the end of this week if all goes to plan.
> 
> I've honestly got nothing set yet. Loads of ideas but nothing in place. I have been looking hard but have realised that the cars and specification I'm looking for are few and far between. The choice is really awful up this far North.


Should move to a proper county then


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## Kerr

Marve said:


> Have you considered a Mercedes A45 AMG? I think Arnold Clark in Dundee has a decent reputation. That must be not far from you?


They'll have a red one on sale soon. One very careful owner.


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## Bero

Kerr said:


> They'll have a red one on sale soon. One very careful owner.


...but one careless dealer as well!


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## andy665

Kerr said:


> I've honestly got nothing set yet. Loads of ideas but nothing in place. I have been looking hard but have realised that the cars and specification I'm looking for are few and far between. The choice is really awful up this far North.


Good to see its getting closer to being resolved.

I really would open up your search nationally, lost count of the number of cars I have bought that have required long train journeys or flights, always ended up with pretty much exactly what i was looking for and the cost of the ticket / fuel and the time element is soon forgotten about

If you see something of interest in the the Midlands I'd certainly be happy to give it the once over for you in advance of you making a decision


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## SteveTDCi

Just jump on a plane, it's not a bad trip down south


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## Bigstuff

SteveTDCi said:


> Just jump on a plane, it's not a bad trip down south


No don't it's grim down there!


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## RisingPower

Bigstuff said:


> No don't it's grim down there!


Screw you man, go eat some haggis or a deep fried mars bar or something


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## Sicskate

So what are you going to drive this time next week then??


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## Kerr

Sicskate said:


> So what are you going to drive this time next week then??


A Mazda MX5 until I buy something. We have two cars and can get by for a little while with one. She cycles to work.

Weekends might be an issue if I'm away.


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## Kerr

RisingPower said:


> Screw you man, go eat some haggis or a deep fried mars bar or something


What was that PM you sent the other night????:lol:


----------



## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> What was that PM you sent the other night????:lol:


I told you, you live in the wrong county


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## Rayaan

I've bought all my wife's cars on the Internet without seeing them and just sending emails go confirm description and of course the inevitable haggling phone call. Never had an issue like this and those cars were all 2 years old or more


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## slim_boy_fat

A pal's son-in-law just drove to Glasgow to finalise a deal on a VX Insignia [trading his current one] at an AC garage.

Deposit made to secure the car, subject to condition etc [all the usual stuff].
The 'new' car is 6 months old with 4k miles on the clock. He went down a day early so his arrival would be after the garage was closed, so that he could examine the car on the forecourt in daylight without the distraction of a salesman rabbiting in his ear.

First thing he noticed on a walk-round was that the o/s front wing was a different shade from the rest of the car.......

Needless, he didn't drive home in that one.


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## lofty

At least it should be easier to reject a faulty car from next week when the new consumers law comes into effect. Having said that most dealers don't even seem to know the present laws that have been around for years, never mind a new one, we can live in hope 

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/mi...-rights-act-gives-car-buyers-right-to-reject/


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## SteveTDCi

On the new law it now states that the buyer has to prove the fault was there in the first 6 months, previously this wasn't the case. I do think that if someone wants to retract a car on the grounds that it's not fit for purpose and is "unsafe" yet they cover 5000 miles after reporting the fault then a mileage charge should apply. 

In principle the last law should have been sufficient for most people but still didn't work, I assume this will be similar.


----------



## m4rkymark

SteveTDCi said:


> On the new law it now states that the buyer has to prove the fault was there in the first 6 months, previously this wasn't the case.


I can't see that statement in the law? Can you point it out please? Not being arsey or funny, genuinely interested because I thought the current law meant the seller had to prove the fault wasn't there when you bought the goods.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents/enacted


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## Kerr

So long little A45. 

That's her gone back to the dealer. 

I obviously had to do it with the damage to the car, but I'll miss the little thing.


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## m4rkymark

Kerr said:


> So long little A45.
> 
> That's her gone back to the dealer.
> 
> I obviously had to do it with the damage to the car, but I'll miss the little thing.


I was going to go in at the weekend to look at another car - I wonder if it will be out for sale again?

you must be a bit relieved its all over now and a bit excited that your going to get something new soon.


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## uruk hai

Glad to hear that mate, I have to say that after following the thread I've admired the way you've dealt with it.


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## Kerr

m4rkymark said:


> I was going to go in at the weekend to look at another car - I wonder if it will be out for sale again?
> 
> you must be a bit relieved its all over now and a bit excited that your going to get something new soon.


They said they didn't know what was going to happen with it.

The other red one they offered is sitting in their showroom now. They must have shipped it back from Grangemouth.

The car looks not too bad now. It doesn't look like it did in the sunlight when it was presented to myself. The colour difference doesn't show under the showroom lights, neither do the scratches unless they have been polished out.


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## SteveTDCi

m4rkymark said:


> I can't see that statement in the law? Can you point it out please? Not being arsey or funny, genuinely interested because I thought the current law meant the seller had to prove the fault wasn't there when you bought the goods.
> 
> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents/enacted


Having said that, it does appear it might be wrong.


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## Nanoman

I take it that everything was finalised OK then? You got all your money back at last?


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## Kerr

The car went back 10 days ago, then handed me a cheque after inspecting the car, the cheque has cleared and I've heard nothing else.

The road tax refund came through the other day. 

The matter is closed as far as I'm concerned.


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## nbray67

Kerr said:


> The car went back 10 days ago, then handed me a cheque after inspecting the car, the cheque has cleared and I've heard nothing else.
> 
> The road tax refund came through the other day.
> 
> The matter is closed as far as I'm concerned.


Do you know what's next Kerr?

From what I've read so far, it's not easy finding the right car up your way.

Is it still along the lines of an Audi or BMW?


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## Kerr

nbray67 said:


> Do you know what's next Kerr?
> 
> From what I've read so far, it's not easy finding the right car up your way.
> 
> Is it still along the lines of an Audi or BMW?


It's murder buying a car anywhere.

We're both looking for new cars. She wants a Mini Clubman for the dog. So we've travelled across Scotland and they've all been very rough, including the ones described as immaculate in and out.

I've had issue with a few BMW dealers I've been dealing with down England, including one trying to fake the AUC report to try and sell me a Z4M with brakes way below the minimum thickness.

I put a complaint into BMW about that and the response from the dealership manager was laughable.

I'm totally disillusioned with what I've seen so far. The quality of the cars I have seen so far has been absolutely dreadful. That's high end premium brands and main dealers, to local independent dealers.

Nothing has been anywhere near good enough.

I'm driving a hired Hyundai i30 diesel at the moment.

I have put a deposit down on a brand new car, but I'm not convinced that is going to go through.


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## Dannbodge

I didn't realise it was the same Kerr on e90post as on here.


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## SteveTDCi

Clubby's are great fun and ride much better than the hatches. You need to have the back seats down really if your going to have a dog in the back.


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## Kerr

That's my replacement sitting outside now.........

It's oh so predictable. :lol:

The chance came up to buy it and I needed something fast. The kind of plan now is to just use it as my normal car and maybe get a Westfield, or similar, next year when the sun comes out for some fun. 

I was sick to the back teeth of looking at junk. Some many cars are a right mess out there and that's premium brand cars sitting at main dealers described as immaculate. I've chalked up some amount of miles in the last few weeks wasting my time.


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## Rayaan

Kerr said:


> That's my replacement sitting outside now.........
> 
> It's oh so predictable. :lol:
> 
> The chance came up to buy it and I needed something fast. The kind of plan now is to just use it as my normal car and maybe get a Westfield, or similar, next year when the sun comes out for some fun.
> 
> I was sick to the back teeth of looking at junk. Some many cars are a right mess out there and that's premium brand cars sitting at main dealers described as immaculate. I've chalked up some amount of miles in the last few weeks wasting my time.


4 series?!


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## Kerr

Nope. :lol:


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## Rayaan

Kerr said:


> Nope. :lol:


LOL give us a clue... could be anything looking at how many cars you've been looking at!

Not that Z4M is it? :lol:


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## Kerr

Rayaan said:


> LOL give us a clue... could be anything looking at how many cars you've been looking at!
> 
> Not that Z4M is it? :lol:


It's brand new.

I wouldn't touch Synter with a barge pole after my dealing with them. Completely untrustworthy.


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## Rayaan

Kerr said:


> It's brand new.
> 
> I wouldn't touch Synter with a barge pole after my dealing with them. Completely untrustworthy.


Argh, dunno, could be anything lol


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## Starbuck88

Come on spill the beans!


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## Kerr

I ended up going with a M235i. I was thinking 435i, but the M235i is a better drive. It has a lower list price(and good discounts) and the little coupe always holds its value better than the bigger one for some reason.










The car has a really good spec. There has been quite a few boxes ticked for options.

I'll run it for a while to see how I get on. I've only done 160 miles so far and making sure I run it in easily.

I've not noticed any dents yet. :lol:


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## Kash-Jnr

You do know it's not really an M car, Kerr :lol:

Good choice though! M-Sport exhaust is a must!


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## rory1992

Just seen this on baby bmw a very good choice indeed I've got an m135i (marmite car) coming today only cause I need 5 doors


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## Peter D

Great combo - love the red leather, darker wheels and blue calipers!


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## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> I ended up going with a M235i. I was thinking 435i, but the M235i is a better drive. It has a lower list price(and good discounts) and the little coupe always holds its value better than the bigger one for some reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The car has a really good spec. There has been quite a few boxes ticked for options.
> 
> I'll run it for a while to see how I get on. I've only done 160 miles so far and making sure I run it in easily.
> 
> I've not noticed any dents yet. :lol:


How's the finish on the wheels


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## johanr77

An M235i even though you were unlikely to get one :thumb:

Considerably nicer than the hatch I've always thought. Should be a good motor to run.


----------



## DJ X-Ray

Kerr said:


> I ended up going with a M235i. I was thinking 435i, but the M235i is a better drive. It has a lower list price(and good discounts) and the little coupe always holds its value better than the bigger one for some reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The car has a really good spec. There has been quite a few boxes ticked for options.
> 
> I'll run it for a while to see how I get on. I've only done 160 miles so far and making sure I run it in easily.
> 
> I've not noticed any dents yet. :lol:


Nice motor that Kerr boy:thumb:


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## Kerr

johanr77 said:


> An M235i even though you were unlikely to get one :thumb:
> 
> Considerably nicer than the hatch I've always thought. Should be a good motor to run.


I didn't set out to buy one, but after much chopping and changing I did.

We're both in the process of changing cars, but we haven't found a decent Mini Clubman to replace her MX5 yet. I can't wait forever and needed to so something.

I was running with the plan of the Z4M, but that would mean limited use of that and driving about in something basic the rest of the time. I do a fair few miles so really wanted something comfortable and usable all the time. It seems a little back to front to have a nice car on the drive and use something else the rest.

We will see what happens next year and I'll be looking for a toy. Something like a Westfield, or equivalent, might suit the bill as a cheap fun second car.


----------



## Kerr

RisingPower said:


> How's the finish on the wheels


I've not seen any chunks missing yet? Can you?


----------



## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> I've not seen any chunks missing yet? Can you?


Isn't it just missing a tiny bit on the front left wheel? 

Looks very nice, but, I still wonder about the m'd of normal versions, they seem, remarkably similar.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Good choice, I really rate the m135i, not driven the m235i but can imagine them being very similar.


----------



## Kimo

i do like the m235, mates got one and it suprised me for the speed etc

not so keen on it in white but still, engines still there ..


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## millns84

Very nice, I'd have personally gone for one of those before the Merc in any event!

I do find the new BMW designations confusing though, i.e. the 2 series being a 1 series coupe etc... Why not just say 1 series coupe??


----------



## Kerr

millns84 said:


> Very nice, I'd have personally gone for one of those before the Merc in any event!
> 
> I do find the new BMW designations confusing though, i.e. the 2 series being a 1 series coupe etc... Why not just say 1 series coupe??


I wanted to try something different after having a BMW for nearly 5 years.

I did enjoy the Merc, it has a real sense of occasion I can't explain. It made me feel good driving it. It was certainly far more aggressive to drive and did attract attention just trying to progress at a reasonable pace.

Accelerate away and get a crack off the exhaust, you could bet someone seen that as a cue for a race. That got a bit tiresome when you've too often got someone right on your tail. It was hard to do discreet .

I loved the seats in the Merc and will miss them. The performance steering wheel was nice too, but it was already showing too much wear and tear.

I had the standard stereo in the Merc and it was awful. It really annoyed me how bad it was. That would have been changed if the car wasn't damaged.

The Becker Sat Nav was also a right pain. I don't know how many times it didn't find the location correctly and that included some of the preloaded options.

I also had quite a few rattles. I think that might have been the reason they pushed through an early facelift for the A class. Interior rattles were extremely common.

I've made sure I had the Harman Kardon hifi this time. It sounds really good with a high quality source. I've also got the Pro Nav. I've not quite worked way round that yet.

I'll miss the Merc, but the BMW is probably the more sensible real world car. It's a lot more grown up and refined. The A45 is just a bit of a hooligan that makes old men feel young. :lol:


----------



## beetie

millns84 said:


> Very nice, I'd have personally gone for one of those before the Merc in any event!
> 
> I do find the new BMW designations confusing though, i.e. the 2 series being a 1 series coupe etc... Why not just say 1 series coupe??


Audi have jumped on a similar band wagon also.

Nice car Kerr


----------



## stevie211

Seems someone else wasn't impressed with Arnold Clark over the weekend
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/lo...-arnold-clark-forecourt-in-kirkcaldy-1.904685


----------



## WhiteRoc_170

Very nice car that. Someone in my village has one of these.


----------



## Kerr

stevie211 said:


> Seems someone else wasn't impressed with Arnold Clark over the weekend
> http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/lo...-arnold-clark-forecourt-in-kirkcaldy-1.904685


I've got an alibi. :lol:


----------



## robertdon777

Nice Motor, great engine, better than any 4 pot. Smooth, Powerful, with a good sound track...ripe for a remap or two.

Auto or Manual?


----------



## cadmunkey

Nice end to a tragic story!! Enjoy the new ride


----------



## Kerr

robertdon777 said:


> Nice Motor, great engine, better than any 4 pot. Smooth, Powerful, with a good sound track...ripe for a remap or two.
> 
> Auto or Manual?


I was swayed for the auto on this car. It is a very smooth box that works well.

The car has auto box, Professional media, Harman Kardon Hi-Fi, heated red leather, driver's comfort pack, visibility pack, sun protection pack, dimming and folding mirrors, reverse camera.


----------



## Starbuck88

Well done, hope you enjoy it, looking forward to more threads on it and how you are getting along with it.

Looks nice


----------

