# Beat the hose pipe ban!!



## Bmwjc (Apr 2, 2012)

Good evening people.
I haven't seen a mention in here yet about this, but if it has apologies!

Just a quick note for everyone in the affected hose pipe ban areas, I've just purchased a suction hose for my karcher electric pressure washer. Connects to the washer itself and then into a bucket, water butt etc to draw water from. Karcher tell me that 15lts would take 2-3 mins of continuous use.

Cost me £15 from eBay link is posted below. Hope this helps a few of you out there, ad like I said if it has been posted before, sorry for wasting this space.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Karcher-S...werTools_SM&hash=item231c19188c#ht_3543wt_822


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## burtz (Apr 14, 2010)

I cant find one for a nilfisk .


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## Bmwjc (Apr 2, 2012)

Email the chap selling it he has a good knowledge, maybe it will fit or he could advise you on how to mod it!


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Does this work with all Karcher models?


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## piemp (Jul 14, 2010)

Shiny said:


> Does this work with all Karcher models?


would also like to know this as I have an old one not 100% sure on the model number! Can check later when I get home


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

I've a 3.575 Jubilee, so it will need a quick release fitting.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

http://www.karcher.co.uk/uk/Product...htm?&accGrNm=10011604__Special%20applications has a list of compatible models, although it shows mine which has a quick release fitting, so i have just dropped Karcher an email to see if there is a quick release fitting version available.


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## DetailMyCar (Apr 19, 2010)

It works on any K3 series onwards, but don't worry about the expensive hose - Just any normal hose with the right connector on will work fine!


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## TubbyTwo (Apr 14, 2011)

Would be fine except for the fact Anglian Water have banned hoses and pressure washers PERIOD. Cant even run one from a bucket/waterbutt.


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## Bel (Mar 1, 2011)

Bmwjc said:


> Good evening people.
> I haven't seen a mention in here yet about this, but if it has apologies!
> 
> Just a quick note for everyone in the affected hose pipe ban areas, I've just purchased a suction hose for my karcher electric pressure washer. Connects to the washer itself and then into a bucket, water butt etc to draw water from. Karcher tell me that 15lts would take 2-3 mins of continuous use.


Since there's so much rhetoric around about the amount of water used by buckets vs. hosepipe, have you actually used this yet?

I ask because it seems an ideal opportunity for us to find out how much water is REALLY used.

Can you tell us - in all honesty - how much water you actually use when you do a normal wash and rinse with your jetwash dipped into a bucket?


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## adf27 (Mar 14, 2012)

Does one exist for nilfisk?


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

TubbyTwo said:


> Would be fine except for the fact Anglian Water have banned hoses and pressure washers PERIOD. Cant even run one from a bucket/waterbutt.


That is a good point actually, Thames Water state "cleaning a private motor-vehicle using a hosepipe". They don't state "...attached to a mains water supply". So i guess that _could_ mean using a hosepipe to draw water from a bucket is not allowed.


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## TubbyTwo (Apr 14, 2011)

I phoned them and asked about running a PW off a bucket/butt was was told no PW use full stop.

Depends on the area.


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## nokia (Mar 3, 2009)

Are you allowed to bodge up a load of guttering together from your tap to where you wash your car?


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## Vmlopes (Jan 8, 2012)

Shiny said:


> That is a good point actually, Thames Water state "cleaning a private motor-vehicle using a hosepipe". They don't state "...attached to a mains water supply". So i guess that _could_ mean using a hosepipe to draw water from a bucket is not allowed.


I spoke to Thames Water today fine to use a PW drawing water from a Butt


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

Vmlopes said:


> I spoke to Thames Water today fine to use a PW drawing water from a Butt


And this is why it's a farce or a law. One rule here. Different rule there. No formal notification. No wonder no-one had every been charged during a ban. There is no way it would hold up in court


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## burtz (Apr 14, 2010)

DetailMyCar said:


> It works on any K3 series onwards, but don't worry about the expensive hose - Just any normal hose with the right connector on will work fine!


Do you mean u can use any hose? Not a suction hose?


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Vmlopes said:


> I spoke to Thames Water today fine to use a PW drawing water from a Butt


I sent them an email after I made my post. Will be interesting to see if we get the same response!


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## Dave3066 (Apr 14, 2011)

Bel said:


> Since there's so much rhetoric around about the amount of water used by buckets vs. hosepipe


BBC recently conducted a test. You can listen to the results on the You and Yours website.

Dave


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## Vmlopes (Jan 8, 2012)

Shiny said:


> I sent them an email after I made my post. Will be interesting to see if we get the same response!


They will ring you back probably, that what they did to me after I emailed....did take a week though


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## nickfrog (Nov 29, 2010)

TubbyTwo said:


> Would be fine except for the fact Anglian Water have banned hoses and pressure washers PERIOD. Cant even run one from a bucket/waterbutt.


I doubt Anglian Water have any legal powers to prevent you from using rain water collected in a butt and then recycled through to a power washer.
And if they had, I am sure it would be challenged and they would back down quite quickly.


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

Numbers of people fined due to using water during a ban..........0 ! in all the years yup 0


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## Briggo (Mar 31, 2012)

TubbyTwo said:


> Would be fine except for the fact Anglian Water have banned hoses and pressure washers PERIOD. Cant even run one from a bucket/waterbutt.


I'd love to know where you got that because there is nothing mentioning anything remotely to that fact anywhere on their documentation.

As mentioned, how can they ban someone using a PW thats being fed from a water butt, they can't.


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## Bmwjc (Apr 2, 2012)

Bel said:


> Since there's so much rhetoric around about the amount of water used by buckets vs. hosepipe, have you actually used this yet?
> 
> I ask because it seems an ideal opportunity for us to find out how much water is REALLY used.
> 
> Can you tell us - in all honesty - how much water you actually use when you do a normal wash and rinse with your jetwash dipped into a bucket?


Yes I can tell you how much I used. The part arrived this morning. I'm using a 10ltr bucket and filled it 3 times. My car was not over dirty at all. Just a quick blast to start then snow foam dwelled for 10mins quick hand wash then powered off! This includes the wheels. Last Saturday I gave it the same style of was with same bucket but it had to be an action of "bucket throwing" as I had no means of useing a hose. I used 6 buckets on car and 2 on wheels. I washed using 2 bucket method and changed twice as I had no initial power wash.

Water saving I would say was considerable!


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## Z Benjamin Z (Jul 18, 2011)

Done my car today but I bought one of those pressure sprayers for £10 and it's worked to wet the car and rise the wheels but ended up using a watering can to rinse the bodywork. Used two 5lt cans and 6lts of spray along with the usual buckets of water. When I use my hose I only use it to foam, rinse which takes a minuet and the pw for the wheels
wheels.

I recon I probably used just as much water without the pw as I would with.


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## dickievxr (Dec 14, 2011)

I have been looking at the suction hose but it doesn't connect to my PW!
How long is this going to last as my car is going to have to be cleaned before the end of summer


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## cactusbob (Jul 3, 2006)

Dave3066 said:


> BBC recently conducted a test. You can listen to the results on the You and Yours website.
> 
> Dave


Starts at 17:58 into the recording (Chapter 3). Wash methods are a bit suspect 

Hosepipe wash = 12 litres (half the car)
Bucket wash = 22 litres (half the car)

I would imagine a pressure washer would use even less


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## TubbyTwo (Apr 14, 2011)

Briggo said:


> I'd love to know where you got that because there is nothing mentioning anything remotely to that fact anywhere on their documentation.
> 
> As mentioned, how can they ban someone using a PW thats being fed from a water butt, they can't.


I phoned Agnlian water, the number is on their website under the hosepipe ban page.

They have also released additional updates that are on the page as well.

I was told that the ban applied to hoses and PW run from the mains/buckets/waterbutts.

I asked about filling up 1 bucket and using it to power the PW to clean the whole car + washing and was told a flat NO, not allowed to draw water from the mains to be used through a hose/PW to clean a car.

I can however throw said bucket of water over the car as many times as I like while filling from the tap.

Crazy rules.


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## cactusbob (Jul 3, 2006)

Well bring it on Anglian Water  When I get round to washing my car with MY pressure washer from MY rain filled waterbutts, I fully expect the witch who lives next door to grass me up to them.


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## shane_ctr (Dec 17, 2006)

I'm just using buckets and washing car more frequently so doesn't get dirty, using more water lol,


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## shane_ctr (Dec 17, 2006)

TubbyTwo said:


> I phoned Agnlian water, the number is on their website under the hosepipe ban page.
> 
> They have also released additional updates that are on the page as well.
> 
> ...


There can't stop you drawing water from a water butt, it's all bollex and untill the leaks there have due to poorly maintained pipes are fixed I wil keep using water,


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## Scrabble (Mar 29, 2011)

South East water on their website state....
For the meaning of certain terms used in this notice and specific exceptions from the prohibitions, see the Water Use (Temporary Bans) Order 2010. Amongst other things, that Order defines:

(a) using a hosepipe to include both drawing water supplied by South East Water at the time of the prohibition through a hosepipe from a container and also filling or partly filling a container with such water by means of a hosepipe.

Rainwater collected from guttering into a butt is fine as the water is not supplied by the water company but by the water of God...


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## Adamw5433 (Mar 26, 2012)

cactusbob said:


> Well bring it on Anglian Water  When I get round to washing my car with MY pressure washer from MY rain filled waterbutts, I fully expect the witch who lives next door to grass me up to them.


I'd just string her along and go with it.
Then when the water board turns up and you explain and show them the waterbutts, she looks more of a fool 

Is that cruel?


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## shane_ctr (Dec 17, 2006)

Adamw5433 said:


> I'd just string her along and go with it.
> Then when the water board turns up and you explain and show them the waterbutts, she looks more of a fool
> 
> Is that cruel?


Cruel but perfectly fair


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## Adamw5433 (Mar 26, 2012)

nickfrog said:


> I doubt Anglian Water have any legal powers to prevent you from using rain water collected in a butt and then recycled through to a power washer.
> And if they had, I am sure it would be challenged and they would back down quite quickly.


I can't see how any water authority could challenge you, or anyone else. 
Using water *YOU* collected, at a cost to only *YOURSELF*. In any manner you see fit.

It would be a silly as BOC invoicing you, for breathing the oxygen. Produced by the trees in your garden. _I'm assuming you have a garden with trees._

If the water authority tried to stop me from using my water and waterbutts, i'd be off down to the Citizens Advice Bureau.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Let's get this straight.

You can use rainwater collected by yourself, in any way you wish. You can use it to water your garden or wash your car. You can use it throught a hosepipe or a pressure washer.

Different water companies may have different rules for the use of water supplied through their water mains.

Hope this clarifies the situation:thumb:


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## Briggo (Mar 31, 2012)

TubbyTwo said:


> I phoned Agnlian water, the number is on their website under the hosepipe ban page.
> 
> They have also released additional updates that are on the page as well.
> 
> ...


These updates? Please provide a direct link, because the hosepipe ban page only mentions you cant use a hosepipe while washing a car, presumably this is in reference to it being from the mains.

Other variants like washing windows it specifically refers to a hosepipe or jetwash.

Additionally, how many different people did you speak to in Anglian Water?

I'm refering to using a bucket type container filled from the mains tap and used in conjunction with a PW.


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## cactusbob (Jul 3, 2006)

Adamw5433 said:


> I'd just string her along and go with it.
> Then when the water board turns up and you explain and show them the waterbutts, she looks more of a fool
> 
> Is that cruel?


That was my plan


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## Turbo Tony (Mar 20, 2012)

Veolia water are permitting car washing with a bucket, and using a hose, if it's connected to a water butt or 'grey water'.

Grey water is used bath water. So, fill the tub, dip a toe in and all that water's available for car washing!


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Just bought a plastic rubbish bin in homebase and plan to attach a length of hose running into it with t'other end plugged into the karcher as I would usually. This has worked ok on the past but does anyone recommend a method which might be better for the PW? Not fussed about the "legality" at all (as I'll fill bin with buckets not the hose) but don't want t knacker my Karcher!


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## Jagnet (Dec 25, 2011)

Having run my elderly Stihl pressure washer via a length of hose dipped in a bucket last week I didn't much like the sounds it was making as it struggled to build pressure, so spent today coming up with a better method to adequately supply water to it rather than force it to draw water itself.

Since my waterbutts are about 5 metres below where the car is, and about 40 metres away I needed something a bit more "portable".

Some quick calculations:
Assuming the pressure washer will use 10 litres of water per minute, that gives us 0.16 litres per second.

Approximate pressure drop required to supply 0.16 l/s for:
15mm pipe (std hose size) = 1,000 N/sq.m. per metre
22mm pipe = 150 N/sq.m. per metre

Assuming a 3 metre pipe run, and handily 3,000 N/sq.m. being 30 cm head:

For 15mm pipe you need a minimum head of water of 30 cm
For 22mm pipe you need just 4.5 cm head. 

Method:
Armed with a large flexi bucket from Wickes, I installed a 22mm tank connector as close to the bottom as possible.

22mm yorkshire copper solder fittings (the ones with the integral solder ring) make for a lovely tight fit inside the 25mmx3m pond hose available from B&Q (£9.99) and don't even need jubilee clips. This is much more flexible than the 22mm plastic push fit hose used in plumbing and has a nice smooth internal bore, as well as being black and shiny 

Flexi bucket ->
22mm tank connector ->
22mm copper street elbow->
22mm full bore lever valve ->
22mm yorkshire coupling ->
25mm B&Q pond pipe ->
22mm yorkshire coupling ->
22mm x 3/4" tap connector ->
pressure washer

Result:

Works a treat and I can't tell the difference between that and working off the mains water once the air's been purged.

Parts cost me ~£10 for the tank connector and lever valve, £9.99 for the hose, and the copper fittings I had lying around and used some scrap copper pipe.

This being DW, the copper was polished using AG metal polish, with AB bubblegum applied to the plastic hose and bucket to finish :buffer:


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## Johnboy20011 (Mar 7, 2011)

AndyC said:


> Just bought a plastic rubbish bin in homebase and plan to attach a length of hose running into it with t'other end plugged into the karcher as I would usually. This has worked ok on the past but does anyone recommend a method which might be better for the PW? Not fussed about the "legality" at all (as I'll fill bin with buckets not the hose) but don't want t knacker my Karcher!


I looked in to this myself a few weeks back, but after investigation's I decided to buy a water butt from argos (1/3 off special price).

My investigations led me to:
*Section 36 of the Flood and Water Management Act 2010* (which updates section 76 of the Water Industry Act 1991) and *The Drought Direction 2011*

*So what are they stopping us from doing that we wish to...*

*Purpose 4 : operating a mechanical vehicle-washer*
_5. Operating a mechanical vehicle-washer, whether automatic or not._

*Purpose 5: cleaning any vehicle, boat, aircraft or railway rolling stock*
6.-(1) _Cleaning any vehicle_, boat, aircraft or railway rolling stock _using a hosepipe_.
(2) The purpose specified in sub-paragraph (1) does not include cleaning any vehicle, boat, 
aircraft or railway rolling stock for health or safety reasons.
(3) In this paragraph-
"boat" means a vessel or other thing which-
(a) is designed, constructed or adapted to move through, in, on or over water; and
(b) is not a private leisure boat within the meaning of section 76(2)(d) of the Act(a); and
"vehicle" means any of the following not being a private motor-vehicle within the meaning of 
section 76(2)(b) of the Act(b)-
(a) a vehicle designed, constructed or adapted for use on roads; or
(b) a trailer or other thing designed, constructed or adapted for attachment to a vehicle 
falling within paragraph (a) of this definition.

*So we are not allowed to wash a private vehicle* *"using a hosepipe"* *This brings us on to the definition of "using a hosepipe" *

(2) Using a hosepipe, in relation to a purpose set out in paragraphs 2 to 11 of this Schedule, 
includes the following-
_(a) drawing relevant water through a hosepipe from a container and applying it for the 
purpose;_
_(b) filling or partly filling a container with relevant water by means of a hosepipe and 
applying it for the purpose._
(3) In sub-paragraph (2), *"relevant water"* does not include water supplied by a water 
undertaker before the use of water to which the purpose relates was prohibited under an ordinary 
drought order

So as we can see filling or partly filling a container with "relevant water" by means of a hosepipe and 
applying it for the purpose is NOT allowed, this rules out filling ANY sort of bucket or container with water from the tap USING A HOSEPIPE for the purpose of cleaning a car.
And the killer rule in trying to get around the ban is, drawing "relevant water" through a hosepipe from a container and applying it for the purpose. This rules out filling ANY container with water and and using a hosepipe connected to that container for the purpose of cleaning a car.
Now our get out of jail free card is the term "relevant water" this is water SUPPLIED by a water undertaker (your water supplier) once the temporary water restrictions are imposed. Water taken from the tap via any means BEFORE the water restrictions are imposed are not classed as "relevant water". Also any water not supplied by a water undertaker (RAINWATER) are NOT classed as "relevant water" so can be used via a hosepipe and pressure washer from a water butt.

So based on the above this is why I have brought a water butt and connected it to the guttering system as to show it is NOT "relevant water". Of course illegal topping up of the water butt from a tap in the dark of night would be hard to prove unless the neighbour videos you in the act.

And whilst im quoting from the* Flood and Water Management Act 2010* this may be of intrest to those who are annoyed that you should pay the price of poor water planning of our water undertakers...

Section 36 paragraph 6 says

*(6)A water undertaker which issues a prohibition must make arrangements for a reasonable reduction of charges which are made in respect of prohibited uses (including arrangements for repayment or credit where charges are paid in advance).*

hope all this helps

John


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

*An update for those us with Thames Water *

Website - http://www.thameswater.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/corp/hs.xsl/15443.htm

There is no mention of using a pressure washer drawing water from a bucket/water butt although it does state -

_Thames Water Utilities Limited gives notice to all of its customers, that the potable* water it supplies throughout its entire area must not be used for the following purposes:

cleaning a private motor-vehicle using a hosepipe;

*Can I use a pressure washer?*

A pressure washer is a similar apparatus to a hosepipe, and its use is also restricted in all of the ways outlined in the Temporary Use Ban.
_

As i am hoping to get the Karcher suction hose and use my pressure washer and there is no clarification if a pressure washer can be used to draw water from a bucket, i emailed TW last week for confirmation of what is and is not allowed.

I just received a call from Thames Water today to confirm that the ban applies in respect of a hosepipe *attached to the mains*. It is OK to fill up buckets from the mains (as long as a hosepipe is not used to fill the buckets) and then use a pressure washer to draw water from the buckets by means of a hose from the pressure washer to the bucket. I have asked for this to be confirmed in writing which they are going to do by email.

I also realise i have been a right turnip wondering if the Karcher hose will fit my pressure washer as it is a quick release model. It is the lance hose that is quick release, not the inlet hose! Doh!

Hope this helps, but i would still recommend contacting Thames Water yourself so you have your own written confirmation from them, just in case you are ever questioned or a nosey neighbour decides to report you. http://customerhelp.thameswater.co.uk/app/ask


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## Vxrtombo (Apr 14, 2012)

Good job I live in army barracks nobody can touch me


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## Dangerroush (Nov 4, 2010)

TubbyTwo said:


> Would be fine except for the fact Anglian Water have banned hoses and pressure washers PERIOD. Cant even run one from a bucket/waterbutt.


Absolute Twaddle, check their web site

http://anglianwater.custhelp.com/ap... to clean my car/session/L3NpZC9jbnpHSjJXaw==


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## sunil1234 (Jan 18, 2009)

Shiny said:


> *An update for those us with Thames Water *
> 
> Website - http://www.thameswater.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/corp/hs.xsl/15443.htm
> 
> ...


Hi Shiny

Did you get the written confirmation of this, if so, would you be so kind as to share it with me.

thank you


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## pat1 (Mar 13, 2012)

I have it in writing! I asked if I could use a pressure washer attached to a rain water butt, and whether I could top the butt up with water from a mains tap using a bucket.



> Thames Water
> Customer Relations
> Customer Service
> PO Box 436
> ...


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

Or do what one member on here did, come to Cornwall & used my Karcher  Up yours Thames Water :lol: :thumb:


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## shane_ctr (Dec 17, 2006)

TubbyTwo said:


> I phoned them and asked about running a PW off a bucket/butt was was told no PW use full stop.
> 
> Depends on the area.


You gonna take notice of that? Im still using my Karcher weekly in Ipswich and there can take me to court. Im filling up a container with rain water which is totally fine, There can't stop you.


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## TubbyTwo (Apr 14, 2011)

shane_ctr said:


> You gonna take notice of that? Im still using my Karcher weekly in Ipswich and there can take me to court. Im filling up a container with rain water which is totally fine, There can't stop you.


It does now say on their website that using a hose or PW from a waterbutt or rain harvesting system is allowed, as long as its not connected to the mains as a backup water source.

So no longer a problem.

Which is handy as the supra needs a bloody good wash!!!


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