# Audi S2 Respray advice



## orsum (Sep 8, 2011)

Hi Everybody,

My 1996 Audi S2 one of 1500 that Audi ever made is getting a new coat of colour and several coats of clear, I have asked the guys who are doing the work for a mirror type finish, the car will be painted in the original colour Emerald Green.

They recommended 2 coats of clear.

I put it to them to put on 3 coats of clear and then cut it back to get the finish I require, I am expecting them to cut back by one coat.

They have not started painting yet so if I wish to change my mind now is the time to do it.

Is three coats of clear enough or should I ask them for more?

I live in South Africa and stone chips are a pain in the butt, some cars appear to suffer less, during the painting process is there anything I can do to lessen the possibility of a stone chipping the paint.

I would appreciate any other technical advice.

orsum


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

It's more about the quality of lacquer rather than the thickness, but as you're in S. Africa I obviously don't know what's available


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

When I use to restore cars that needed a concours finish with the paint work.

We would apply the colour, then apply two nice coats of clear laquer, it would be left for a week, then it would be flatted down taking care not to go through, re-masked and another two coats of laquer applied. Resulting in a nice smooth mirror finish.

But depends what type of laquer they are planning on using.


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## orsum (Sep 8, 2011)

Hi Guys,

The company doing the work are Audi approved so I am sure they will be using a product that falls within the Audi specifications.

If anybody would care to recommend a better product then great I am sure I should be able to it in South Africa.

The number of layers is a guide that I would like to give which will help down the road if I ever have to polish out scratches etc.

My concern about painting this car is that it is the original 1996 paintwork which is in a good condition bar 1 front fender/wing which has now been replaced, so I am having the car resprayed, now that then adds to my concerns, one mistake and I will ask for it to be done again so getting right the first time is very important.

I have requested that all the paint on the car must be perfectly matched in colour and the finish must be identical on every panel while at the same time improving on what Audi did.

The only way I feel they can do that is to put on plenty of clear and then cut it back to a totally flat finish.

So 2 coats 1 week apart, will that not cause any separation between the two clear coats. 

orsum


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

orsum said:


> So 2 coats 1 week apart, will that not cause any separation between the two clear coats.
> 
> orsum


I think he means two coats close together then wait a week before cutting back. :thumb:


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## orsum (Sep 8, 2011)

Sorry for my bad English I understood what he was saying apply 2 coats wait 1 week then flat down and apply another 2 coats.

What clear coat should I use and and are there any concerns about seperation between the clear coats applied 1 week apart.

orsum


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

We repair Audi at one of our bodyshops and the paint they use is ici autocolor.

You won't get any separation in the paint, what happens is that when the car painted. Flatting the laquer will remove all orange peel resulting in nice smooth even laquer, then when you laquer the car again it makes the laquer sit a lot flatter giving you a better finish.

I know it sound like a lot to paint the car twice but the results will be a lot better.

They should be able to replicate the finish that it had originally if not a lot better.

If you do it that way it means the end finish on the car will be like a mirror finish, if your in doubt about how there going to finish the car, ask to see some of there work this will give you an idea of how there paint/repairs look, also ask the painter that's going to do the car advice and tell him what you after he will be able to advise you on this and the end product that your after.


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## Steampunk (Aug 11, 2011)

Factory paint for Audi during that era I believe was still Spies-Hecker; pretty good paint all told, but HARD. Some good paint brands are:

Glasurit (OEM for Bentley, Morgan, & Some Porsche colours. Fairly soft paint.)
Spies-Hecker (OEM for Audi, Some Porsche, and I believe some Mercedes-Benz)
Standox (OEM for BMW if memory serves)

All of these will have a great colour-match with any European finish. The important thing is to have the painter use a system that he/she is comfortable with, so check with your shop to see if they use one of these paint systems.

Make sure to stick with one system from start to finish (I.E. Spies-Hecker Clear, Hardener, Reducer, Basecoat, Primers, etc.), and you should be good. The process that you are talking about with applying the clear in two spray sessions really isn't necessary with the higher-end European materials, though I've seen it done many times in America by painters doing show-grade finishes with PPG, HOK, or SPI. Standox, Spies-Hecker, and Glasurit clears will all attain 50-60 microns in thickness after 1.5-2.0 coats. If you want 75 microns to play around with, just tell them that you plan on doing a lot of wet-sanding and buffing, and instruct them to apply another coat of clear (3-Coats total). If these guys are good, they'll know to cross-hatch their coats to avoid major urethane wave, and if they are using a good compliant gun (Reduced pressure like SATA RP.) you really shouldn't get too much peel from an ultra-high solid European clear. In all honesty, you probably only need 2-coats of clear to achieve the kind of finish you are looking for; three just gives you room to play in future. By the way, these three coats are applied in one spray session.

As for stone chips, aside from vinyl wrapping (Or Plasti-Dip http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=250654), there really isn't too much you can do. The amount the paint chips is largely dependent upon the hardness/flexibility of the paint. Softer paints chip less than harder ones, as they are more forgiving, but also easier to swirl. If your painters aren't complete idiots they'll know to add a flex-additive to the paint on plastic panels (Bumpers, etc.), which should cut down on some of the chipping on those panels. You can specify a tinted primer (Both Glasurit & Spies-Hecker do one. Glasurit's is 285-60 and S-H's is 5400 Spectro.), which will minimize the appearance of when a stone will chip down through the clear, but it will still be noticeable.

As for final finish, just specify that you want ZERO orange peel (Which you could call a 'Concours Finish'), and expect to pay for hours and hours of wet-sanding and buffing. I'm currently restoring my 1977 MG MGB, and I am doing all the bodywork myself, so I'm familiar with the processes involved with achieving this kind of finish. Hopefully this helps...

Steampunk


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Just to add to what steam punk has said great piece of advice .

Spies hecker and standox waterbase.
Are actually both made in the same factory just at the end of the line ones goes out as standox other goes out as spies hecker so its the same paint. But application is the same, with what they call 6 8,10 it's all applied in one application, first coat gun held six inches away from panel, second coat gun 8 inches away, 10 inch coat (drop coat) away from panel as said its all applied while its still wet.
It's only the laquers that are slightly different.
Spies hecker laquer will either be using 8035 or 8600. 
Both the above clears are applied by a single half coat, then one full coat, so not quite two full coats. But spies is a very temperamental paint, it requires heat on it straight away so the ovens need to be very efficient. We used it for a while at work my honest opinion I didn't rate it that much caused to many problems, and when spies technical guys couldn't work out why after the watched us apply it why we had problems, they blamed the ovens bearing in mind they were brand new.
And If i recall correctly spies hecker has only been in south Africa for around four years, because we had a guy from south Africa at our Bodyshop for a week learning how to use it as it had only just been introduced over there.

BMW have there own paint called bmw white label. Which can only be bought from bmw, and is used in there approved bodyshops, which even tho it's labeled up as this it's a actually Glasurit 90 line.

Glasurit 90 line, starts as a solvent base, when mixing you first add M4 which converts it into waterbase, we have this system at work. It is applied exactly the same as solvent ie apply a coat dry it, apply a coat dry it, unti covered then apply drop coat.

Glasurit clear we currently use 135 and 335 which are both applied the same two full wet coats, let it flash off for 5 mins then bake it.

Only problem I would be concerned about is that with applying 3 coats, with these modern HS clears there not designed to for 3 coats to be applied, as you could run the risk of over application resulting in solvent boil, which is where the solvents boil causing micro blisters which is not good, it will have to be flatted back probably primed again, as when you flat it you will leave tiny little holes where you've flatted the head of the micro blisters, not an easy thing to sort out specially if it's a repaint.
Which is why you should stick to the guidelines of how many coats of clear your product is telling you to apply there are there for a reason.

Here's a bit of info from Glasurit about solvent boil.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...5MyTBw&usg=AFQjCNGmAiwcCN57ilzdUrRacWIcqZBWng


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## orsum (Sep 8, 2011)

I can see I am in for a steep learning curve, I just love this sort of stuff.

Guy your knowledge and support is first rate or should I say orsum.

Thanks

orsum


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## Khanage (Jan 8, 2012)

I wish I could help out with your query but I really have no clue about paints.
Just wanted to go off topic a little here as I used to own a 1995 S2 in Silver, 6-speed ABY. The only reason it moved on to another owner a few years ago was because a woman drove into the passenger side wheel 
Great car, good luck with the paint job!


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## Ti22 (Mar 24, 2009)

I would stress to the bodyshop you want a very good flat and polish to make sure there is zero orange peel. They will know how much laquer to put on to acheive this if they are any good.

It's the sanding the paint flat afterwards that will give the car the look you want.


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## orsum (Sep 8, 2011)

*Gave the ok to start the painting yesterday*

I was at the body shop yesterday and had a long discussion with the workshop paint technician, he said that all the paint they use comes from Germany and is the Audi approved paint, and he said he will send me all the details later.

He also said that they will air dry the car and will not force dry it with heaters, he said it will dry for about 2 weeks before they do any other work.

I have asked for pictures to be sent of how the car looks now and will post as I get them.

orsum


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