# Dealership Damage (advice)



## lobotomy (Jun 23, 2006)

Hello,

Looking for some past experiences or advice.

My wife dropped her car off for it's first MOT at Crow Road VW (Arnold Clark) in Glasgow yesterday morning. She picked it up and drove it home and noticed this as soon as she got out of the car:




























And clearly where it's been reversed off or whatever damaged it the bumper has been yaked off at either side:



















She says the car was parked nose into a space when she picked it up so never noticed (_and hence never said anything at the time_). I phoned as soon as I saw the damage myself (about 20min after she picked up the car - which is basically the transit time from the garage to home).

I asked to bring it back straight away so they could see the damage but as it was 1715 I was basically blanked and told noone would be there. They said they had done a damage check sheet before it went into the workshop and they said that "damage" was noted on the front drivers side bumper (and a chips / slight scratches elsewhere). I refuted this and said that the damage was 100% not there before dropping the car off. Being a pedant for this sort of thing I know where every minor scratch, chip and ding is on the car! And this was definitely not there before we dropped the car off.

Where do I stand - I fully expect they'll say because damage was noted on some "check-sheet" they'll deny liability, but what can I really expect? Looking at the fixings in the wheel arch and under the bumper, some seem broken / burst so it could end up being a very expensive repair!?

Any help / advice would be gratefully received!

Adrian


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## simonvespa (Apr 18, 2012)

Not good. I would have thought that for a damage sheet to be of any use to either party it would need to be countersigned by both parties at the time the vehicle was dropped of.

However, with the sheet dismissed it looks like your word against theirs unfortunately. If it was me I'd go and have a look around the dealership for evidence of a high kerb with black paint marks. If any was found and cctv was available ask to review the tapes for the time the car was in their care.

Hope you get this resolved.

Simon


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

As above... unless both parties walked around the car at hand over and signed off the sheet, you can't prove they did it, nor can they prove they didn't...

I always get someone to look over my cars with me at both drop off and collection for this reason.... they always see me taking a picture of the mileage as well... 

Sore lesson to learn mind you, but I think the best you'll hope for is a goodwill discount gesture if you were to use them again...


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

As above, the damage sheet should be signed by both parties. I always make sure I do as a matter of course to protect me and them and even they dont mention it I will wander round the car before and after with them and point anything out.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> As above... unless both parties walked around the car at hand over and signed off the sheet, you can't prove they did it, nor can they prove they didn't...
> 
> I always get someone to look over my cars with me at both drop off and collection for this reason.... they always see me taking a picture of the mileage as well...
> 
> Sore lesson to learn mind you, but I think the best you'll hope for is a goodwill discount gesture if you were to use them again...


beat me to it lol.


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## Vossman (Aug 5, 2010)

Go to the dealer and explain to them what you have found, if they dispute this then ask about cameras or customer care, if they still dispute it then ask if you can have the contact details of the MD's office, I know you can easily find this out but asking at the dealership may make them think you are serious - which you are, you have nothing to lose.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Part of my daily task is the blocking and unblocking which included writing the damage sheet, as said a complete waste of time as the process is never witnessed.

From experience I would only speak with the general manager overriding the service team and appeal to his better nature in the hope of some goodwill gesture.


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## lobotomy (Jun 23, 2006)

Yes, I raised this point with the lady on the phone yesterday about the damage sheet not being checked off with my wife. I basically said that without it being signed off by my wife, damage could have been noted at any time during the afternoon, and trying not to imply any dishonesty (*it's hard not to*), if the damage wasn't there when we dropped it off it must have been done on their premises in their care.

They said the service manager was to phone me back today (not phoned yet and it's 1pm) - I'll see what he says and go from their.

Lesson learned! Will advise any outcomes!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

> if the damage wasn't there when we dropped it off it must have been done on their premises in their care.


Looking at it from their point of view... and trying hard not to imply any dishonesty...

Can you and/or your wife PROVE that there was no damage when the car was left with them...

If you see what I'm saying..anything you use against them, can also be used against you..... 

Hope you get it fixed though....

:thumb:


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Keep on at them mate and if needs be call their main customer services.

I dropped a car off for a service and for a seat to be looked at under warranty. In the process of doing that they managed to scratch up about four or five pieces of trim and the leather steering wheel. I marched straight back down there and showed them and they eventually replaced the trim.

As said, what's the point in a damage sheet if you're not there to agree with it. Then if it differs you've got some kind of evidence.

Keep on that them mate, sounds to me like whoever has damaged it hasn't put their hands up to it in the hope you'd do what most would and drive it straight home.


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## lobotomy (Jun 23, 2006)

The Cueball said:


> Looking at it from their point of view... and trying hard not to imply any dishonesty...
> 
> Can you and/or your wife PROVE that there was no damage when the car was left with them...
> 
> ...


Nope, I wholeheartedly agree! That's sort of where I was coming from - My only concern is that since, other than good-will, they have no real reason to even entertain me. I just hope that there's a mechanic somewhere feeling pretty bloody terrible right now! (_but probably not_)

My wife has bought 3x cars from that garage, we have bought into their "3 year service plans", get our MOT's from there... They might not be making loads of money out of us, but we have been repeat business. I'll be using that when I speak to them (_still waiting on my call-back!_)


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

lobotomy said:


> My wife has bought 3x cars from that garage, we have bought into their "3 year service plans", get our MOT's from there... They might not be making loads of money out of us, but we have been repeat business. I'll be using that when I speak to them (_still waiting on my call-back!_)


That is what I would be going in with^^^ we are a good customer... and we know (OK can't 100% prove, but know) that you've damaged our car, now if you want to keep our business this is what we expect...

:thumb:


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Hard to tell from the pictures but that looks like its been on a ramp and then lowered down, as it was lowered there may have been something under it that its hit, maybe i am wrong but cant see impact marks but see crushing marks that i cant imagine would happen whilst being driven.


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## ottostein (Sep 11, 2012)

Shaun said:


> Hard to tell from the pictures but that looks like its been on a ramp and then lowered down, as it was lowered there may have been something under it that its hit, maybe i am wrong but cant see impact marks but see crushing marks that i cant imagine would happen whilst being driven.


Is the damage on the sill?

If it is then you should be able to say that they caused it as you dont have access to a ramp.

Looks like they have tried to raise it but it could have slipped and fell back. 
Not sure how the damage on the back was caused.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

That looks quite a mess.

I don't know what to suggest other than what others have said here & definetaly speak to the general manager & insist that it is sorted to your satisfaction.


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## Bigstuff (Mar 2, 2012)

Find the time to go in and see them mate.

Amazing how people struggle to fob you off in person but be happy to do it on the phone.

I had similar issue with Peter Vardy branch. They crumbled.

I'm a big **** though


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## RyanSpencer (Apr 27, 2013)

*The Guru*

Find out the name of the dealer Principle is at the dealership and ask to make an appointment with him to discuss the situation. I'm sure if you take it to the top, they will repair your vehicle with no hard bargaining. Let me know how you get on. Regards the Guru.


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## kev999 (Feb 16, 2007)

You took it to Arnold Clark,dont expect anything less than lies, bolloc-s and bullsh-t.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

As above, I've heard nothing but grim stories of VW Glasgow (where you visited) & nothing astounds me anymore with their shoddy service.

If you don't get anywhere mate, you could try threatening with a small claims via court - that'll wake them up.


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## Hasan1 (Jul 1, 2011)

Ask it they can look at CCTV of the car going in and out


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Standard practice for Arnold Clark to be honest.

No idea how they've amassed such a disinterested and careless bunch of employees.

A few of their dealers damaged a couple of my previous cars.

Twice I noticed before leaving and once a few days later.

They did repair all the damage once challenged. Sadly often the repairs were poor leading to further work.


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Email head office complaints department. 

That's what I did and hq contact the branch to make sure they've dealt with it. My issue was sorted straight away after that.


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## mr v6 (Jun 29, 2007)

I work for AC at another branch. One thing I will say, the second you complain the branch is hit with a 5k fine from head office. They'll do their best to wriggle out of it, but should loud enough & they'll give in prety much straight away, so I'd say that'll be repaired without too much hassle.

Bear in mind, not many AC branches have on-site bodyshops. So if Crow Road doesn't (I speak to them on a daily basis), they'll use an independant mobile guy. I would insist it's done by a bodyshop, don't let them talk you into paying for it & giving them the invoice, you'll not see a penny that way.

If, the damage was caused by them that is.

Most of, if not all of AC's workshops have CCTV in them, there's not an inch of the sites that aren't covered by a camera of some sort either.

@Kerr: We had similar damage this week on a Corsa, when noticed the damage was accepted by the techie (I use that term loosely) & the branch accepted full liability. They don't always deny it point blank.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

mr v6 said:


> @Kerr: We had similar damage this week on a Corsa, when noticed the damage was accepted by the techie (I use that term loosely) & the branch accepted full liability. They don't always deny it point blank.


Usually I have got them to admit fault but usually it is so obviously there isn't any argument.

The first issue is they know they've caused the damage and hope that you don't either notice or say anything.

Sadly I'm not one for keeping my mouth shut in the circumstances.

Then once they have admitted liability it's the way they go about fixing things than then becomes the further issue.

Had a few long drawn out battles with Arnold Clark that has resulted twice in having to have Trading Standards involved.

Between trading standards and the independent engineer company that viewed the damage, both confirmed that AC even taking into account their size, are by far the most complained about business they have to deal with.

Shoddy customer care and workmanship is almost guaranteed.


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## lobotomy (Jun 23, 2006)

Hello,

Bit of an update - My wife took the car in to the garage on Tuesday afternoon, the service manager came out to see it. He went a bit awkward when he saw the damage apparently. Didn't admit liability but basically said there wasn't worth us arguing it wasn't there and him arguing it was.

He's ordered a whole new bumper as it's the RLine and said it would be sent to "the body shop" for painting (_it worries me that mrv6 says they use a mobile guy :S _). He never mentioned any split of cost so at this point I'm assuming it's covered by them. He'll phone in a week or so when it's ready to fit.

Looks like it may have worked... We've never really had any issues with Arnold Clark garages in the past (_except maybe ****y **** salesmen_) but I'll be a bit more wary from now on. It seems any garage locally these days is either AC or Evan Halshaw (who I'm not too keen on either)


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## salim (Apr 13, 2013)

Result, most dealers contract out. Just ask him, it may come pre painted.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Great result, glad it got sorted out


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## mr v6 (Jun 29, 2007)

lobotomy said:


> He's ordered a whole new bumper as it's the RLine and said it would be sent to "the body shop" for painting (_it worries me that mrv6 says they use a mobile guy :S _). He never mentioned any split of cost so at this point I'm assuming it's covered by them. He'll phone in a week or so when it's ready to fit.


Good result.

I'd make a point of visiting the site & making sure they don't have a bodyshop, most don't. Ask who'll be doing the job. Personally, if they say it's a mobile guy, I'd make a strong point insisting it's done by a reputable bodyshop. That's from experience with AC.


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