# New car ideas?



## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

Hi guys, 

I'm looking at getting rid of my Fiesta ST and upgrading to something a bit bigger/quicker/nicer. My St is completely stripped out, front & rear strut braces, adjustable coilovers, Piper fast road cams & jamsport live remap to 190bhp, so it's pretty quick! But i want something with boost, however if anyone's got any n/a suggestions I'm more then welcome to check 'em out!

I've chosen three i like, Astra vxr, Focus St & Megane R26, the power of these three is all the same 225-240bhp but I'll be looking to tune then and hopefully get around 300+bhp.

So, out of the three, what do you guys think is the best one?
What suggestions of other cars do you guys have?

Budget is around £10000

Fuel economy isn't a major issue, only do 28 miles a day to work & back.

Cheers, Jack.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

If you're going down the route of lots 300bhp via modifying why not get something that is properly sorted out of the box and not a tweaked family hatch

Boost is overrated and I would always prefer the response that only an n/a engine can provide

I'd be looking at Boxster S or 996's


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

For £10, 000 I'd buy a BMW 335i.

All the hatches you're looking at are 0-100mph in 16-17.5secs. The BMW is 12.4 standard and also very tunable. 

Believe it or not, they won't be that much more to run than a hot hatch. You'll probably find the insurance is cheaper.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

Can they be had for under 10k


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Something a bit different and change in your pocket.

K20A with 220ps N/A. http://www.torque-gt.co.uk/index.php?act=productDetail&productId=661


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

Shiny said:


> Something a bit different and change in your pocket.
> 
> K20A with 220ps N/A. http://www.torque-gt.co.uk/index.php?act=productDetail&productId=661


Looks quite different and understated, however I've found this; http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...tz/radius/1500/make/BMW/price-to/10000/page/1

Upon checking a simple remap takes them to over 380bhp, so that car could be right on the money, shame it's black!


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

e46 M3 (proper engine)

R32

But out of the list, A Focus ST, just because they have a 5 pot.


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## Blackroc (Dec 10, 2012)

Trying to get 300bhp through your front wheels will be almost impossible and you will get fed up with eating front tyres all the time, especially as you will need quality (expensive) tyres to maximise the potential from it.

Kerr is on the right lines with RWD - but I'd go 130i. 

3lt straight six engine, (they sound stunning too) 265bhp out of the box, can be modded with m3 arms, LSDs etc...successfully by Birds to make a great track day tool easily. 

Lots of potential


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## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

Young_JD said:


> Looks quite different and understated, however I've found this; http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...tz/radius/1500/make/BMW/price-to/10000/page/1
> 
> Upon checking a simple remap takes them to over 380bhp, so that car could be right on the money, shame it's black!


Black and having smaller wheels doesn't do it any favours.

Slightly over your budget but there are newer (than the car in the ad) 135i's around.

A guy I know had his running over 400bhp.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

Blackroc said:


> Trying to get 300bhp through your front wheels will be almost impossible and you will get fed up with eating front tyres all the time, especially as you will need quality (expensive) tyres to maximise the potential from it.
> 
> Kerr is on the right lines with RWD - but I'd go 130i.
> 
> ...


I personally don't like the 1 series bmw, my mam used to have a 123d coupe and it wasn't my cup of tea, plus I'm keeping the st as a trackday toy!


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

DMH-01 said:


> Black and having smaller wheels doesn't do it any favours.
> 
> Slightly over your budget but there are newer (than the car in the ad) 135i's around.
> 
> A guy I know had his running over 400bhp.


As said to blackroc I don't particularly like to 1 series...

Do you guys think I'd be better off going German rwd then with the other choices? Surely a mapped 335i would make mince meat of most things on the road/track?


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...make/BMW/model/3 SERIES/price-to/12000/page/1

Just over budget but looks/seems perfect, just rang them & they said it's 105k miles on the clock with full dealer history, is that too many miles?


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## ITSonlyREECE (Jun 10, 2012)

You could get a very clean MK1 Focus RS for that money - there were two going on Pistonheads recently for a similar price, one with 300bhp and the other 400bhp


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

I've looked at the old frs' but I'm not sure


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## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

Young_JD said:


> Just over budget but looks/seems perfect, just rang them & they said it's 105k miles on the clock with full dealer history, is that too many miles?


With mileage like that you have to decide if you want to risk running the car without the extended warranty from BMW as it will be very expensive.

The price of the warranty increases at 60k miles, often by double. It increases again at the next milestone, circa 100-120k I think.


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Have to agree with Kerr on this one. If I was to buy a car, the 335i coupe would probably be my choice.

Here's an example which I bet you'd get down to 10k or maybe even less.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...ize-cars/3l_to_3-9l/page/1/make/bmw?logcode=p

It's one of the only cars that BMW make that look good in 'SE' spec. It's the 19s that make it look good.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

rf860 said:


> Have to agree with Kerr on this one. If I was to buy a car, the 335i coupe would probably be my choice.
> 
> Here's an example which I bet you'd get down to 10k or maybe even less.
> 
> ...


The SE coupe (and coupe only) will have M Sport suspension (unless a very rare request to delete) and M Sport seats.

The difference are purely cosmetics. Bodykit externally, steering wheel, gear knob etc inside.

The SE with a front splitter looks nice.

Personally I'd go for a manual though.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

Is rather get the m-sport version...I know how great the m-sport suspension is!


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I would say going from a focus st to a 335i is a big jump. Yes the 335i can be picked up cheap with high miles but it's always going to have bmw bills when things go wrong. If you are keeping the fiesta as a track car why not pick up something sensible that will be cheap to run and could tow the fiesta ?


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Young_JD said:


> Is rather get the m-sport version...I know how great the m-sport suspension is!


All coupe 335is came with m sport suspension.


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## piston_warrior (Jul 25, 2012)

Astra VXR can reach 300bhp easily with a cooler, exhaust and remap. Same with the Focus and Megane. If you can source a Nurburgring edition Astra then they already have a turbo back Remus so all you would need is a decent cooler (Airtec £500) and a remap (£300-400) and you'll see 300bhp with a shed load of smiles per gallon.


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

matthewt23 said:


> Astra VXR can reach 300bhp easily with a cooler, exhaust and remap. Same with the Focus and Megane. If you can source a Nurburgring edition Astra then they already have a turbo back Remus so all you would need is a decent cooler (Airtec £500) and a remap (£300-400) and you'll see 300bhp with a shed load of smiles per gallon.


Aren't gearboxes on the Astra a problem?


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

SteveTDCi said:


> I would say going from a focus st to a 335i is a big jump. Yes the 335i can be picked up cheap with high miles but it's always going to have bmw bills when things go wrong. If you are keeping the fiesta as a track car why not pick up something sensible that will be cheap to run and could tow the fiesta ?


That was another idea, what do you suggest mate?


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

matthewt23 said:


> Astra VXR can reach 300bhp easily with a cooler, exhaust and remap. Same with the Focus and Megane. If you can source a Nurburgring edition Astra then they already have a turbo back Remus so all you would need is a decent cooler (Airtec £500) and a remap (£300-400) and you'll see 300bhp with a shed load of smiles per gallon.


Yeah, that's something i like about the three chosen, kms do a 320bhp package, £1800 fitted & that's for a kms thunderstorm turbo back exhaust, fmic, remap & injectors...

A similar package for the vxr is around £2500-£3000

And I'm not sure about the megane tuning wise..


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Young_JD said:


> That was another idea, what do you suggest mate?


You could go down the 4x4 route or I'd throw a skoda superb estate in the mix, it's a good size, the boot would take the spares, it would need to be the 2.0tdi though mondeo 2.2 tdci would be another choice, they are both big cars though for everyday use. Legacy outback would be an oddball choice too.


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Skoda estate???? WTF?!

He's suggested that he likes hot hatches, not diesel family cars.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

SteveTDCi said:


> You could go down the 4x4 route or I'd throw a skoda superb estate in the mix, it's a good size, the boot would take the spares, it would need to be the 2.0tdi though mondeo 2.2 tdci would be another choice, they are both big cars though for everyday use. Legacy outback would be an oddball choice too.


Not my cup of tea mate, I'm only 18 haha! The nearest I'd get to a diesel family estate would be a 335d estate... Maybe something like that in years to come!


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

You mention you're 18, have you checked insurance prices on these cars?

Always a killer unfortunately, I know too well!!


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

Insurance isn't an issue, I'm company car insurance mate


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Young_JD said:


> Insurance isn't an issue, I'm company car insurance mate


Lucky guy lol.

What about golf edition 30 if you want to stick to hot hatches? Owned one and it was a great car, miss it a lot. Very tuneable, it's a de tuned audi s3. Lots of folk have saw 300hp plus from just a map.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

They've over the 10k budget but about 2-3k mate, however i do love them!


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Young_JD said:


> They've over the 10k budget but about 2-3k mate, however i do love them!


Defo not over budget. I sold my mint 08 46k one for £10,800 back in august. So I'd imagine you'll get a good one for 10 now.


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## CleanCar99 (Dec 30, 2011)

A4 quarto 3L V6 turbo diesel. 240 out of the box, 0-60 6.5s.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

rf860 said:


> Defo not over budget. I sold my mint 08 46k one for £10,800 back in august. So I'd imagine you'll get a good one for 10 now.


Ahhh ill have a look!

Can you reccomend the best place to get them tuned?


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

kybert said:


> A4 quarto 3L V6 turbo diesel. 240 out of the box, 0-60 6.5s.


He doesn't need a diesel so better off sticking to petrol.

No matter if a diesel is a v6, it's still not a nice as a petrol. IMO of course


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

I had a diesel Astra before and it was costing just as much if not more as my st to run! Haha so fuel economy isn't and issue but i would have a performance diesel though


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## justinio (Jun 24, 2013)

How about an Audi TT 3.2 V6. Four wheel drive and pretty tuneable.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

Bit hair dresser'y i want something that's big-ish & practical as a daily but also good if you want a bit of a blast!


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Young_JD said:


> Ahhh ill have a look!
> 
> Can you reccomend the best place to get them tuned?


Amd are highly rated.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

It honestly baffles the life out of me how people come up with some of the ideas of cars to fit a criteria.

How you go from hot hatch to Audi A4 diesel I'll never know.

It's like going to church to marry your wife, and coming home with Dale Winton instead.


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

@Kerr - LOL!!


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

Kerr said:


> It honestly baffles the life out of me how people come up with some of the ideas of cars to fit a criteria.
> 
> How you go from hot hatch to Audi A4 diesel I'll never know.
> 
> It's like going to church to marry your wife, and coming home with Dale Winton instead.


Ahahaha!!


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## Johnsy (Oct 20, 2013)

Just my 2pc

Vauxhall manaro 5.7 v8 
E46 m3
Merc sl500
R33 GTR vspec
Jag XKR
6 series 645ci
Audi s4 s3

Loads of other jap crap that's easily tuneable, I'd personally avoid AWD/4x4 as there too numb,
Being a petrol head you gotta try Rwd at some point
n/a all the way, boost always ends in tears

Avoid diesels at all costs, if you didn't like your mothers 123d there ain't much out there that's much better for a derv,


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## Pauly.22 (Nov 15, 2009)

You can have my m3 for 10k

Putting it up next week sometime










Cheers


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

I've drawn a short list up, price of buying & tuning so here goes;

2006-2007 Focus st £7000-£9000 & £1800 for kms 320bhp package.
2006-2007 Astra Vxr £6500-£7500 & £2000 for Rss 290bhp package
2006 Bmw 335i £8000-£9000 & £375 for e-maps remap 385bhp
2007 Vw gti edition 30 £9000 & £500 Revo remap 300ish bhp


Or, turbo my fiesta st which will cost about 3.5k ish and keep that for all put performance and by a sensible car i.e 2.0 tdi golf or jetta or something along those lines?


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

Pauly.22 said:


> You can have my m3 for 10k
> 
> Putting it up next week sometime
> 
> ...


That's beautiful!


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Given that you said make a suggestion for a practical tow car and keeping the st. A track car both a4 and superb would make good suggestions as tow cars.

I suggest you go out and try all of those cars but may I make a suggestion, check with your companies insurance first to make sure they will insure you, I can tell you that the fleet policy we have wouldn't (I know it's not the same) I can also tell you that pretty much all mainline fleet insurers will not include cover for modifications. I don't know your go pang circumstances so might be completely wrong.


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

Has it got to be new? 
Pulsar gti. 
Starlet turbo. 
Celica GT4
Mazda 3 MPS
MR2 Turbo
Wild card rover tomcat (civic underneath)
Saloons I know but EVO or Impreza
10k for me I'd be looking at something you don't see everyday.

From those above I'd have a 335i


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## piston_warrior (Jul 25, 2012)

Young_JD said:


> I've drawn a short list up, price of buying & tuning so here goes;
> 
> 2006-2007 Focus st £7000-£9000 & £1800 for kms 320bhp package.
> 2006-2007 Astra Vxr £6500-£7500 & £2000 for Rss 290bhp package
> ...


If you do get an Astra then don't get a RSS remap unless you want to run lean or blow a turbo. Get it custom mapped from RS Tuning or Courtenay sport.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

matthewt23 said:


> If you do get an Astra then don't get a RSS remap unless you want to run lean or blow a turbo. Get it custom mapped from RS Tuning or Courtenay sport.


Didnt realise there was issues with rss software...

If i want to hit 300ish bhp with a vxr, what will i need? Turbo back decat exhaust, air intake, front mount & remap?


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## rkelly113 (Oct 12, 2013)

From your list above... 335i... Look out for those turbos though....
Have you thought about 335d? More torque than 335i and can also be remapped.... If it was me i would stick with petrol though.

The E46 in this thread looks sweet!!


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

rkelly113 said:


> From your list above... 335i... Look out for those turbos though....
> Have you thought about 335d? More torque than 335i and can also be remapped.... If it was me i would stick with petrol though.
> 
> The E46 in this thread looks sweet!!


The d isn't anywhere near as good to drive. It isn't as fast either.

It isn't the turbos that are the issue, it is only the actuators. For some reason BMW replace the entire build up when the actuators get loose. It doesn't actually affect the car from running. It is just the rattle. Like most cars, they all have a few weak points.

BMW extended warranties are good and not always expensive. Mine is only £380 per year.

The M3 is a great idea, but the running costs of the M cars is on another level.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Young_JD said:


> Insurance isn't an issue, I'm company car insurance mate


Still check though, even on a company fleet policy, a lot of vehicles mentioned in this thread will carry terms and could exclude drivers under the age of 25 or even 30.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Shiny said:


> Still check though, even on a company fleet policy, a lot of vehicles mentioned in this thread will carry terms and could exclude drivers under the age of 25 or even 30.


What about modified cars?


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## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

Kerr said:


> The d isn't anywhere near as good to drive. It isn't as fast either.


That's not necessarily true...

BMW performance car magazine did a complete review of both. Including standard, press and tuned cars (same tuner, Evolve).

Standard:
petrol: 0-60: 5.6, 0-100: 13.6, 60-100: 8.0
diesel: 0-60: 5.6, 0-100: 13.3, 60-100: 7.7

Press cars: 
petrol: 0-60: 5.1, 0-100: 12.5, 60-100: 7.4
diesel: 0-60: 5.7, 0-100: 13.7, 60-100: 8.0 (strange)

Tuned (just an ECU flash)
petrol: 0-60: 5.2, 0-100: 11.7, 60-100: 6.5
diesel: 0-60: 5.3, 0-100: 11.9, 60-100: 6.6

And if you think "yeah but it handles worse" take into account they used the Press cars (of which the diesel was slowest) around Bruntingthorpe Proving Ground (petrol being manual, diesel being auto)... and the results? 1,22.8 for the petrol, 1,22.7 for the diesel (and that's just 2.4s less than the e90 M3).


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Kerr said:


> What about modified cars?


Depends on the Insurer, but not normally very favourable on a company fleet policy.


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## xedbot (Sep 20, 2011)

I've recently upgraded from a Fez ST to BMW Z4M Coupe. No regrets!


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## rkelly113 (Oct 12, 2013)

Kerr said:


> The d isn't anywhere near as good to drive. It isn't as fast either.
> 
> It isn't the turbos that are the issue, it is only the actuators.


I never had the joy of getting behind the wheel of the 335i  but the 335d is well impressive. Fast wise, theres not much in it. 
I know a guy who has his mapped to 360bhp approx and he beat an E46 M3. Well so he says 

With the turbos, i would always be concerned about turbos on any car, especially a high mileage one with no BMW FSH. I know anything could go wrong but turbos are my fear.

Your warranty is cheap! I dont have any


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## T-5ones (Sep 12, 2006)

I love this thread. I'm in a similar position, wanting a new car and not knowing what to get. Having a mixed marque forum and loads of experience from many members... *Goes off to start a thread...*

To the OP; have you thought about the Volvo T5 in one of it's many guises or an R? A tow car and a swift motor which can be upgraded very sucessfully.


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

T-5ones said:


> I love this thread. I'm in a similar position, wanting a new car and not knowing what to get. Having a mixed marque forum and loads of experience from many members... *Goes off to start a thread...*
> 
> To the OP; have you thought about the Volvo T5 in one of it's many guises or an R? A tow car and a swift motor which can be upgraded very sucessfully.


He's 18, doubt he'd be pulling much birds in a Volvo. No offence lol.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

DMH-01 said:


> That's not necessarily true...
> 
> BMW performance car magazine did a complete review of both. Including standard, press and tuned cars (same tuner, Evolve).
> 
> ...


The entire Evolve review was nothing short of a promotion for the company. A review based on figures provided by a tuner who have huge influence in the 335d market and little in the 335i market. You can see why they done that?

Every single other review and the guys on all the forums have proven the 335i quicker than that.

Best times were in Germany (a bit biased) at 12.1 secs and the worst were our own Autocar at 12.8secs. They test with a passenger and with a full tank.

Autocar with their press 335d got 0-60 in 6.1secs and 13.7 for 100mph which was quoted by quite a few tests.

The press car thing was punted by that article and DXB only that that press 335is were tuned and 335ds standard.

Tuned 335is are doing 0-100mph in 10secs with a JB4.

He used to go on about ripping M3s with his 335d all the time. Only once he had a M3 it was quicker than even a mapped 335d.

Driven a few 335ds and had a blast against a few and I have my opinion.

The sound feel and enjoyment of the I is greater than the d.

You're entitled to your opinion, but you aren't going to alter mine.

You'll also have noticed how many peoole have sold their 335ds recently and moved on to 335is, M135is and M3s and suddenly rave how much better the petrol cars are?


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## rkelly113 (Oct 12, 2013)

I have an 'i' :thumb: 
i love the sound of a straight six petrol!


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

Out of all suggested I'm swaying more towards the bmw for 3 reasons;
1.My dad works at cooper durham
2.Its silly quick once mapped
3.I'm 18 and it's a bmw hahaha


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## rkelly113 (Oct 12, 2013)

Young_JD said:


> Out of all suggested I'm swaying more towards the bmw for 3 reasons;
> 1.My dad works at cooper durham
> 2.Its silly quick once mapped
> 3.I'm 18 and it's a bmw hahaha


Hi let us know what BMW you get and post some pics!

When i was 18, i had a 1.6d ford orion  oh almost forgot it was a GL!

Happy car hunting!


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

rkelly113 said:


> Hi let us know what BMW you get and post some pics!
> 
> When i was 18, i had a 1.6d ford orion  oh almost forgot it was a GL!
> 
> Happy car hunting!


Will do bud, still not 100% dead set on bmw so still open to suggestions but the bmw is definitely in the no.1 spot atm


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## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

Kerr said:


> You'll also have noticed how many peoole have sold their 335ds recently and moved on to 335is, M135is and M3s and suddenly rave how much better the petrol cars are?


I haven't seen anyone go from a 335d to a 335i (personally don't see the point).

Moving on to a M3 yes, but then I've seen a lot of 335i owners move onto them as well.


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

I'd never have my kids driving a 300bhp motor at that age solely based on lack driving experience sorry to pee on your fire Young JD :thumb:


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## Globy (May 9, 2011)

Obviously BMW 335i is a great car with an awasome engine!
But if you are into tuning, why not see some japanese models? 
- mistubishi Evo (fq-320, perhaps)
- subaru impreza
-nissan skyline gt-r
You can have a lot of fun, and there are millions of mods....

Sorry forgot to tell, if you want to show off, consider buying a Porsche
-cayenne
-boxster
-911


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

You are still missing the important bit, insurance both for the type of car and for the modifications.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

At 18 there is no way I was capable and responsible enough to handle 300bhp safely - if I had 10k tucked away I'd be using some of it for professional tuition

A competent driver with 200bhp will always be quicker AND safer than someone who thinks they are competent and gave 300bhp

Any insurance company that is prepared to cover someone at 18 on a 300bhp car is just plain crazy - I'm also not aware of any company car insurance that would cover modified vehicles

No offence meant to OP - you may have had lots of professional tuition. I know at the ripe old age of 46 I still get regular tuition (free of charge for me fortunately) and I'm still learning


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## justinio (Jun 24, 2013)

Probably not what the OP wants to hear, but... I really don't understand how your parents are ok with you (an 18 yr old) buying a car with 300bhp. I'm sorry but that is a lethal combination. The trouble with most 18 yr olds is their inexperience far outweighs their perceived ability.

Don't mean to get on my soapbox and come across as patronising. But at the ripe old age of 42 it happens sometimes. 

And to sound REALLY BORING, why not put that 10k towards a house deposit? In a few years time you will no doubt be needing it. 

Whatever you do though, I wish you the best of luck!


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

So, you'd be going from a quickish light car to a biggish, heavy car, at 18?

I don't see why 300 horses is anything at all, but you can be a lot sillier in something like a fiesta st or r26 and get away with it rather than an m3.

For a daily i'd prefer reliability over power, I didn't enjoy running the m3 as a daily at all and it was too heavy and soft to have fun in imo.

I'm also not sure where this bizarre requirement for 300 horses comes from.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

The internet says you need 300bhp or it was said on a forum so must be true 

Buy an mx5 and learn.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

SteveTDCi said:


> The internet says you need 300bhp or it was said on a forum so must be true
> 
> Buy an mx5 and learn.


I was told it was 1000 :lol:


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## Pauly.22 (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm selling my m3 a few pages back, due to buying it then realising I need to buy a house. 

I can have another m3 anytime but a house is more important. 

Don't blow all you money, you will regret it, I do.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Pauly.22 said:


> I'm selling my m3 a few pages back, due to buying it then realising I need to buy a house.
> 
> I can have another m3 anytime but a house is more important.
> 
> Don't blow all you money, you will regret it, I do.


Yeah, I regret spending a fair amount on an m3 then the subsequent constant issues with it. Was just a money pit imho.

Besides, 10k will just buy the m3, the maintenance costs will be even sillier these days now most m3s are nigh on 100k.


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## Pinky (Feb 15, 2008)

Hi 
Just out of interest what are you paying for insurance for your modified st ?
and is it in your name or in your parents with you as a named driver ?

I can understand where the need for a super fast car comes from when you are 18 but what experience have you got driving imo you only start learning when you pass the driving test , are your parents happy with you getting a super car ? 
Do you have a job and are you saving to pay for it ?


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Pinky said:


> Hi
> Just out of interest what are you paying for insurance for your modified st ?
> and is it in your name or in your parents with you as a named driver ?
> 
> ...


A "super car"? With 10k?!


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

Thanks for all the advice guys.
There's no requirement for 300bhp but i would like to hit that figure. I don't want a fast car to go fast all the time, i want a fast to so when it's decent weather & it's a good empty road i can go fast & have fun, I'm by no means a boy racer haha it costs to must to be one of then! 
Again, I'm not expert driver but i can drive, I've officially been passed my test. Just over a year but my grandad owns a lot of land(a farm) so i had an old car to learn in when i was younger, around 13/14 so I've been driving for a couple of years and haven't had an accident yet.
As mentioned about saving for a house, i plan to start saving in a few years time!


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

Pinky said:


> Hi
> Just out of interest what are you paying for insurance for your modified st ?
> and is it in your name or in your parents with you as a named driver ?
> 
> ...


Just over 3k & it's with aviva and the insurance is in my name with my patterns as named drivers.
Yeah my parents are fine with it, they aren't overly impressed but I'm used to being in and around quick cars with my dad & my mam has always had quick-ish ones too.
Yeah I've got an apprenticeship & I've already got the money to buy it, well almost


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

RisingPower said:


> A "super car"? With 10k?!


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Young_JD said:


> Thanks for all the advice guys.
> There's no requirement for 300bhp but i would like to hit that figure. I don't want a fast car to go fast all the time, i want a fast to so when it's decent weather & it's a good empty road i can go fast & have fun, I'm by no means a boy racer haha it costs to must to be one of then!
> Again, I'm not expert driver but i can drive, I've officially been passed my test. Just over a year but my grandad owns a lot of land(a farm) so i had an old car to learn in when i was younger, around 13/14 so I've been driving for a couple of years and haven't had an accident yet.
> As mentioned about saving for a house, i plan to start saving in a few years time!


So here's the thing, why that number? At your age, tbh, you're fiiting the stereotype and I don't think I can say I was any different.

Driving on a farm, doesn't exactly count as driving. So really, you don't have much experience at all.

Think I had a ctr at either 21 or 22, that was loads more fun to drive than the m3 was, so power doesn't mean diddly. It's power that you can actually use anywhere and since you haven't mentioned using it at a track...


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

m1pui said:


>


Crashed or bodykit?


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

RisingPower said:


> Crashed or bodykit?


No one can resist the offer of "the handshake" :lol:


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

RisingPower said:


> So here's the thing, why that number? At your age, tbh, you're fiiting the stereotype and I don't think I can say I was any different.
> 
> Driving on a farm, doesn't exactly count as driving. So really, you don't have much experience at all.
> 
> Think I had a ctr at either 21 or 22, that was loads more fun to drive than the m3 was, so power doesn't mean diddly. It's power that you can actually use anywhere and since you haven't mentioned using it at a track...


Why 300? I'm not sure, my st is 190bhp and I've seen a few of them around 300bhp, there's no reason it's just afigure I'd like to hit!

In the fields no, but on the country roads and such, I'd say that counts?

My st has plenty of usable power for the track, which is what it's mainly gojng to be for, it will be completely track spec, so the new car won't ever see the track!

I'm not really a stereotypical 18yr old driver, yes i like to have a fun & put my toe down but my dads 39 and had a mapped 535d and drives that quickly when possible, does that make him a stereo typical boy racer? No it doesn't! I don't think here's anything wrong with having a quick car no matter what age you are, as long as you now when you can & should use the power and when you cant & shouldn't use it. As I've said I'm no expert driver, I am a good driver, i wouldn't say anyone in this thread was a expert driver but I'm sure 90% are good drivers..


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## Globy (May 9, 2011)

I don't see the problem of a young boy having a powerfull car. It is not for having 300 bhp that he will drive like mad and be crazy. It is something that he owns.
If you have a weapon doesn't mean you are going to kill people...


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## nichol4s (Jun 16, 2012)

I had a 300+ bhp car at 18 and I'm still alive, jealousy is a terrible thing your only here once make it a good time..


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Young_JD said:


> Why 300? I'm not sure, my st is 190bhp and I've seen a few of them around 300bhp, there's no reason it's just afigure I'd like to hit!
> 
> In the fields no, but on the country roads and such, I'd say that counts?
> 
> ...


Country roads, at what age? There's very little traffic on country roads and it's mainly being able to deal with other drivers.

I really wouldn't get too het up with numbers tbh. Just pub talk or, the kind of thing you talk about outside supermarket car parks with lots of chavved up corsas.

I couldn't use the power the m3 had down country roads and it felt so heavy into the corners and out, it was ok for motorways/dual carriageways but yeah, brakes were feeble for such a heavy car and it just felt clinical.

The ctr on the other hand was fantastically involving to drive down country roads, which is why i'd lean towards the r26 or r26r.

535d is a big, older persons saloon. Doesn't quite fit the boy racer type.

I don't think it has anything to do with power, but a) your insurance would be massively higher for rwd b) If it has any power and rwd and you treat it like fwd, you'll end in a ditch.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

nichol4s said:


> I had a 300+ bhp car at 18 and I'm still alive, jealousy is a terrible thing your only here once make it a good time..


I'm certainly not jealous - just expressing my opinion - I doubt that more than 1% of 18 year olds are experienced and responsible enough to handle 300 bhp safely

I honestly believe that it's about time there was a tiered licence system, not age related but training / competency based that only allows people into more powerful cars when they are deemed competent - that of course opens up a whole other can of worms

I had a 135bhp Caterham Seven (so about same power : weight ratio as a typical 300bhp car of today) at 18, was I safe / competent in it - at the time I thought yes. My dad insisted on additional training which I undertook - in retrospect even that was not right - I may have had the knowledge / understanding to know how to control it but the mere fact that I was 18 meant I got into more trouble with it than was reasonably safe not only for myself but also other road users and pedestrians.

Never had an accident in it but too many near misses for comfort - the main issue I had us what I'd suggest the vast majority of people suffer from at 18 - the belief that you have a licence so must be competent, the driving test was outdated and not fit for purpose 30 years ago.

I started to learn how to drive once I'd passed my test, the driving test is exactly that - a test of the most basic levels of competence and understanding

The OP is demonstrating serious levels of common sense in this thread so may well be the rate exception to the rule

Back on topic the BMWis a really good shout but maybe also consider a 350Z, pretty bulletproof and with decent upgrade options, your budget would get a really good example


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## Benjay (Mar 17, 2013)

Don't think anyone's mentioned a Subaru impreza yet here's a link to one 
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201310049118235?atmobcid=soc4

More power is easily achievable but I would keep in mind that these are highly capable cars and I personally think that at 18 this would have been far too much car for me to handle and or not be dangerous with.
I think you'd get far more enjoyment out of something less powerful but more rewarding to drive for example a civic type r, would give you a lot of enjoyment out of the high rev range and vtec, at the same time you'd learn a lot about the actual feel of the car. A lot of people that go from having the high revving n/a engine to far more powerful turbo cars often come back to n/a as they simply find n/a more fun to drive, so that's always something to keep in mind is not to chase the bhp figures bit to find something that you actually enjoy driving!


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Benjay said:


> Don't think anyone's mentioned a Subaru impreza yet here's a link to one
> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201310049118235?atmobcid=soc4
> 
> More power is easily achievable but I would keep in mind that these are highly capable cars and I personally think that at 18 this would have been far too much car for me to handle and or not be dangerous with.
> I think you'd get far more enjoyment out of something less powerful but more rewarding to drive for example a civic type r, would give you a lot of enjoyment out of the high rev range and vtec, at the same time you'd learn a lot about the actual feel of the car. A lot of people that go from having the high revving n/a engine to far more powerful turbo cars often come back to n/a as they simply find n/a more fun to drive, so that's always something to keep in mind is not to chase the bhp figures bit to find something that you actually enjoy driving!


I thought the Robert Burns cars were worth a lot more than that?

Must have mega mileage since they've chosen not to tell you.

Keighley have an absolutely shocking reputation too. Don't know how many genuine horror stories I've seen from them.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

RisingPower said:


> Country roads, at what age? There's very little traffic on country roads and it's mainly being able to deal with other drivers.
> 
> I really wouldn't get too het up with numbers tbh. Just pub talk or, the kind of thing you talk about outside supermarket car parks with lots of chavved up corsas.
> 
> ...


Country roads from about age 14, there were a few cars on the road, not millions but enough to learn a thing or two!

I'm not caught up in figures, I'm not a boy racer that'll sit in a car park and brag but i like to be safe in the knowledge that my car is quicker then the other persons but i don't stand and talk about it.

My fiesta is the exact opposite of your m3, bloody brilliant on country roads, could leave numerous higher performance cars down twisty roads but isn't a nice car for motorways, granted it's still quick to keep up but it isn't nice to cruise in, at all. Precisely why i want something that's quick but still family friendly/easy to live with!

I've beaten a handful of r26's, vxrs & focus' down the country roads. I love the r26r and one would me perfect but too much money for me if I'm honest.

It's not a boy racer car but that wasn't my point, people have a stereotype of young lads with quick cars, how are they any different to a older man with a quick car? They've both bought the fast car for a reason.

As said, insurance isn't an issue. I've never tried rwd as my own car but I've driven numerous bmws, mercs & such so I'm comfortable driving them.


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

He did ask for opinions on cars not wether he should be driving with something with some power at a young age.
Regardless of wether he has experience or not is out of the question, he didnt ask for everyones opinion anyway, that's not our problem, people buy super cars because they have money and crash them, so what.
Am I a bit envious, he'll yeah, I'd of loved a focus st/M3 or anything bigger than a 1.4 engine. Sadly my apprenticeship didnt pay that well so was stuck with a rover, I was also 18 but didn't really care, I was on the open road!
Go for what ever you fancy OP, if you have the cash why the hell not


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Young_JD said:


> It's not a boy racer car but that wasn't my point, people have a stereotype of young lads with quick cars, how are they any different to a older man with a quick car? They've both bought the fast car for a reason.


One word answer - Experience

Whilst I totally accept that experience does not necessarily equate to ability I would also say it's much more likely to help than hinder

Stereotyping unfortunately is unavoidable but look at any Tesco / McDonalds / KFC car park in the evening and try telling most people that the stereotype is wrong - sadly the people that don't fit the stereotype are all tarred with the same brush


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## dillinja999 (Aug 26, 2013)

id say Scooby too, looking at getting an old bugeye myself


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## Pauly.22 (Nov 15, 2009)

RisingPower said:


> Yeah, I regret spending a fair amount on an m3 then the subsequent constant issues with it. Was just a money pit imho.
> 
> Besides, 10k will just buy the m3, the maintenance costs will be even sillier these days now most m3s are nigh on 100k.


Mine is just on 100k and a headlight bulb has blown today, that's £60 for a new one. I can easily afford to drive it but would rather had the cash sitting in the bank. 
M3s are epic though worth buying if you can afford it


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

I do agree with that your saying andy, but experience doesn't mean you can drive well? It's true it may help but if you look at the older generation it can also hinder. Just because I'm young, doesn't mean i can drive..

Yeah, i know it's unavoidable, it's part of being young i do think it's wrong, I know a lot of young lads/lasses that do got the stereotype, but I'm proud to say I'm not, i don't sit in car parks with loads of people revving my engine to show I've got a louder car. However, I've been to local meets but tend to park my car out the way rather then with all the chavs!

I do like the scoobys & the hawkeye is my favourite but i don't know a lot about them and ive never had experience with them, so any advice on scoobys would be much appreciated.

The thing is with the bmw, is my dad works there so sny work won't cost me as much as it should and I'll get parts at trade price.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Pauly.22 said:


> Mine is just on 100k and a headlight bulb has blown today, that's £60 for a new one. I can easily afford to drive it but would rather had the cash sitting in the bank.
> M3s are epic though worth buying if you can afford it


It just seemed like something every other month and I hated the bmw dealership who couldn't be bothered to offer a courtesy car. Could have sworn even the sodding central locking failed a few times.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> It just seemed like something every other month and I hated the bmw dealership who couldn't be bothered to offer a courtesy car. Could have sworn even the sodding central locking failed a few times.


Thought that was just an excuse to stop people getting out?


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Young_JD said:


> Country roads from about age 14, there were a few cars on the road, not millions but enough to learn a thing or two!
> 
> I'm not caught up in figures, I'm not a boy racer that'll sit in a car park and brag but i like to be safe in the knowledge that my car is quicker then the other persons but i don't stand and talk about it.
> 
> ...


Well i'm afraid to say, it won't be.

I got rid of the m3, switched it for a 350z, which has less power but is imho more fun than the m3 was.

So didn't you say it was for country roads?

The next sentence, again, boy racer.

An older person with a faster car is not as likely to have an accident as they use some common sense driving, have considerable more experience driving and don't use 1/10th of that power. They're also far more likely to use it in suitable conditions like the autobahn or a track.

The number of people I see about your age flying round blind corners and not thinking what may happen, kinda makes me agree with the stereotype.

I forgot about the company car thing..


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Kerr said:


> Thought that was just an excuse to stop people getting out?


It was in the winter and I had to use the key in the lock to get in. Lock just refused to fully open otherwise  Don't think it would lock properly either with the central locking.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

RisingPower said:


> Well i'm afraid to say, it won't be.
> 
> I got rid of the m3, switched it for a 350z, which has less power but is imho more fun than the m3 was.
> 
> ...


No, didnt mention country roads with the new car i don't think, although i could be wrong:lol:

No, just because I've had a little bit of fun with another car, doesn't make me a boy racer, it's quite annoying you say that actually. You had a M3, are you telling me you've never once put your toe down against another car? If you at you haven't then you are a lair. So are you a boy racer too??

So an older person isn't as likely to have a crash? What makes you come to that conclusion, I've seen multiple old people with faster cars wrap them up simply because they cannot drive. I'm sorry but when it come to driving age doesn't mean anything, you may disagree but it's true, I'm say I'm a damn sight better driver then a lot of older people!!

You may agree with the stereotype, it doesn't mean it's correct, i can categorically say I've NEVER once driven dangerously as i know the costs of speed and driving dangerously, I've lost family members and friends due to speeding, drunk drivers & boy racers, exactly why i want to distance myself from being seen as a boy racer.

If you had to stereotype my, I'd rather be classed as a car enthusiast!!!


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Young_JD said:


> No, didnt mention country roads with the new car i don't think, although i could be wrong:lol:
> 
> No, just because I've had a little bit of fun with another car, doesn't make me a boy racer, it's quite annoying you say that actually. You had a M3, are you telling me you've never once put your toe down against another car? If you at you haven't then you are a lair. So are you a boy racer too??
> 
> ...


Not in the m3, no, unless you mean at brands hatch, in which case, yes. (not ever in the 350z as it's too damn slow for the track, the m3 wasn't exactly rapid at the track either)

I'm saying you're in the group with the highest insurance premiums for a reason, it's the same with very old people.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

RisingPower said:


> Not in the m3, no, unless you mean at brands hatch, in which case, yes. (not ever in the 350z as it's too damn slow for the track, the m3 wasn't exactly rapid at the track either)
> 
> I'm saying you're in the group with the highest insurance premiums for a reason, it's the same with very old people.


Then why buy a M3? A car that's built to go quickly!!! I find it hard to believe that no once in the time you owned it you did put your toe down, I'm sorry but I really do.

I've not mentioned anything about the insurance group I'm in? Just because I'm in a 'high risk' insurance category doesn't mean I'm a risk, does it? Just because my pier cant drive and/or drive dangerously, Doesn't mean i do, does it?

This thread has gone far from the point now, i asked for ideas of a new car, not for advice on my driving experience & insurance group, because I'm well aware of both of those.
Would you have an issue if you saw an 18yr old in a mapped 335i bmw? Would it bother you?


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Young_JD said:


> Then why buy a M3? A car that's built to go quickly!!! I find it hard to believe that no once in the time you owned it you did put your toe down, I'm sorry but I really do.
> 
> I've not mentioned anything about the insurance group I'm in? Just because I'm in a 'high risk' insurance category doesn't mean I'm a risk, does it? Just because my pier cant drive and/or drive dangerously, Doesn't mean i do, does it?
> 
> ...


You saw the mention of brands right? I bought it with the intention of using it occasionally at the track, which then turned out to be absurd.

I'm not saying it does, just you are in a high risk group and you have mentioned certain things that tie you to the reason why it's a high insurance risk.

No I wouldn't, i'm not sure where I said I 'm concerned about what people are driving? 

I have been trying to get at the main use of the car, which sounds like mainly commuting? In which case i'm not sure really why you'd want anything interesting as you'll spend 80% of time in traffic, 330i or almost any car would be suitable and you'd still have a fun car which you could make even more fun?


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

RisingPower said:


> You saw the mention of brands right? I bought it with the intention of using it occasionally at the track, which then turned out to be absurd.
> 
> I'm not saying it does, just you are in a high risk group and you have mentioned certain things that tie you to the reason why it's a high insurance risk.
> 
> ...


Yes, but i was on about on the road. If you didnt buy it to be used as a quick car, them to me that seems a waste.

No, the reason in classed in a high risk group is because of a stereotype, not because of me or the car i drive or the way i drive, it's because a certain amount of idiots drive like tw*ts.

I didn't say you were concerned about the car i drove, i just simply asked of it bothered you, it seems like you'd rather i had a little 1ltr corsa, the typical boy racer car. I simply mean, what difference does it make to you wether i drive a 335i or corsa 1ltr? I could kill someone in the corsa equally as much as in the bmw.

The car will be used for work & the occasional weekend drive out, so i want something quick, comfortable & bloody nice to live with.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Young_JD said:


> Yes, but i was on about on the road. If you didnt buy it to be used as a quick car, them to me that seems a waste.
> 
> No, the reason in classed in a high risk group is because of a stereotype, not because of me or the car i drive or the way i drive, it's because a certain amount of idiots drive like tw*ts.
> 
> ...


No, because I bought it to use occasionally at the track and for a comfortable, practical daily car on the road. Unless it went on the autobahn, there are very few places where you could use any of the power without getting into trouble.

This is the bit that makes you a high insurance risk "I've beaten a handful of r26's, vxrs & focus' down the country roads. " Say that to an insurance broker and see what happens.

I really couldn't care less what car you drive, I just don't see the point on having anything vaguely interesting for commuting in down motorways.

The m3 would be ideal for the autobahn, but like all the 3 series (excluding the csl) it's too heavy to have fun in and all the driver aids are far too intrusive.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Given you age and type of car you really do need to check the insurance situation, if it is a fleet policy you might find they won't cover you, I look after our fleet so know the exclusions we have, but even if you take no notice of me take notice of the person who works as a broker in the insurance industry that's already posted. 

Oh and don't blame other 18 year olds for making you a high risk, over confidence and believing that its others and never yourself is what makes youngsters a high risk, and if i've read it correctly driving on country roads aged 14.

Whilst at 18 you might have money at the moment, buying a car is the easy bit, its keeping it on the road that's expensive and a 335i could cripple you massively if it went wrong. Cheap 335i's are cheap for a reason backed up by why the after market warranty is expensive. We not here to pick fault with you but most of us are older, have been there and are passing experience on to you. My advice, get the Fiesta on the track and then get a Skoda VRS.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

To me that seems a waste, that wasn't what the car was designed and built for, but each to they're own.

I'm not saying you do care, what I'm saying is it doesn't make a difference to you or to anyone else what i drive. I believe you buy & drive a car because YOU like it not because it's a car that stereotypically acceptable, like the corsa, stereotypical young persons car, bmw stereotypical older mans car.

I'm no where near the autobahn? I've got a car if I want B road blasts, my st! I want a proper car that's quick but also comfortable and fun to drive on motorways & dual carriageways


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## p1tse (Feb 4, 2007)

Something safe audi s3 with the grip
335i as mentioned

Personally I would go German
If you don't need space as above boxster s


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

SteveTDCi said:


> Given you age and type of car you really do need to check the insurance situation, if it is a fleet policy you might find they won't cover you, I look after our fleet so know the exclusions we have, but even if you take no notice of me take notice of the person who works as a broker in the insurance industry that's already posted.
> 
> Oh and don't blame other 18 year olds for making you a high risk, over confidence and believing that its others and never yourself is what makes youngsters a high risk, and if i've read it correctly driving on country roads aged 14.
> 
> Whilst at 18 you might have money at the moment, buying a car is the easy bit, its keeping it on the road that's expensive and a 335i could cripple you massively if it went wrong. Cheap 335i's are cheap for a reason backed up by why the after market warranty is expensive. We not here to pick fault with you but most of us are older, have been there and are passing experience on to you. My advice, get the Fiesta on the track and then get a Skoda VRS.


I will check before i buy the specific car, but from doing a quick check i wi be okay.

If you read further up you'll see i agree I'm not expert & I'm not over confident, I'm aware of my driving abilities, difference.

I'm aware of the costs of keeping a car on the road, my st is lucky to get 25mpg, i run toyo r888's, so I'm well aware of running costs of a car. As said, if anything does go wrong i will be in a better position then most others with my dad working at bmw. 
I do fully take on board all advice I'm being given and I'm grateful that you & the others have taken your time to give me that advice, the only thing I'm not grateful and that annoys me is when people stereotype me because I'm young, i think it's really unfair as they don't know me as a person.

Which shape Vrs? New or old? Petrol or diesel bud?


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Young_JD said:


> To me that seems a waste, that wasn't what the car was designed and built for, but each to they're own.
> 
> I'm not saying you do care, what I'm saying is it doesn't make a difference to you or to anyone else what i drive. I believe you buy & drive a car because YOU like it not because it's a car that stereotypically acceptable, like the corsa, stereotypical young persons car, bmw stereotypical older mans car.
> 
> I'm no where near the autobahn? I've got a car if I want B road blasts, my st! I want a proper car that's quick but also comfortable and fun to drive on motorways & dual carriageways


Tbh the m3 only seems to serve any purpose down the autobahn, it's too heavy and slow for the track and there are no places that you can use any of the power on the road short of slip roads and that got very boring after a point.

I've never seen a young person driving a 5 series, but, prove me wrong by all means. 3 series, I was 24 or something when I had mine, others were younger. A lot of fiesta drivers are younger, or older people. When I had the ctr, that was only young people.

You must have different motorways/dual carriageways than i've ever been on. I've never seen motorways that aren't a) full of slow moving oblivious idiots b) cops c) just generally hopeless drivers. It's also terribly boring driving in a straight line for miles and miles.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

p1tse said:


> Something safe audi s3 with the grip
> 335i as mentioned
> 
> Personally I would go German
> If you don't need space as above boxster s


I want to go to a German car, because of they're quality and reliability.

With the s3, do you mean the older shape? New ones are out of my budget. I'm not so keen on the porshe's if I'm totally honest.


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Jeez, get off this guy's back. If he wants to buy a fast car and can afford it, what's it got to do with anybody else. 

I'd have loved to have been in his position at 18. Had to wait until I was 20 to get a fast-ish car.


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Young_JD said:


> I will check before i buy the specific car, but from doing a quick check i wi be okay.
> 
> If you read further up you'll see i agree I'm not expert & I'm not over confident, I'm aware of my driving abilities, difference.
> 
> ...


If you're going to go down the sporty diesel route, I'd take the seat leon fr over the Octavia. Octavia is a definite old mans car, not a good look when your 18.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

RisingPower said:


> Tbh the m3 only seems to serve any purpose down the autobahn, it's too heavy and slow for the track and there are no places that you can use any of the power on the road short of slip roads and that got very boring after a point.
> 
> I've never seen a young person driving a 5 series, but, prove me wrong by all means. 3 series, I was 24 or something when I had mine, others were younger. A lot of fiesta drivers are younger, or older people. When I had the ctr, that was only young people.
> 
> You must have different motorways/dual carriageways than i've ever been on. I've never seen motorways that aren't a) full of slow moving oblivious idiots b) cops c) just generally hopeless drivers. It's also terribly boring driving in a straight line for miles and miles.


Fair point with the m3, although it is a beautiful car.

I do know a few people that I'm friend with that have bmw, mercs and audis, so I'm certain I wouldn't be the first and definitely wouldn't be the last young lad to have a nice car.

I don't drive on different motorways, i live in durham, so it's the same motorway but it doesn't tend to have an awful lot of police.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Young_JD said:


> I want to go to a German car, because of they're quality and reliability.
> 
> With the s3, do you mean the older shape? New ones are out of my budget. I'm not so keen on the porshe's if I'm totally honest.


Don't buy German for reliability. You'll sadly be dissapointed as they aren't as reliable as you think. Lots of them are very weak.

Audi finished 2nd bottom for engine reliability according to warranty direct. BMW and VW weren't exactly good either. A few really weak models drag them right down.

The Japanese murder the Germans for reliability.


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## Dannbodge (Sep 26, 2010)

RisingPower said:


> Tbh the m3 only seems to serve any purpose down the autobahn, it's too heavy and slow for the track and there are no places that you can use any of the power on the road short of slip roads and that got very boring after a point.
> 
> I've never seen a young person driving a 5 series, but, prove me wrong by all means. 3 series, I was 24 or something when I had mine, others were younger. A lot of fiesta drivers are younger, or older people. When I had the ctr, that was only young people.


I'm 23 and drive a 328i and have a friend who's 20 and has 525i.
I'm considering a 530 as a daily car too.

M3s are fine for track use. Especially E36/E46s.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

rf860 said:


> If you're going to go down the sporty diesel route, I'd take the seat leon fr over the Octavia. Octavia is a definite old mans car, not a good look when your 18.


A guy up the street has a mapped Leon fr, seems like a nice car & quite quick! May pop up tomorrow and have a chat with him.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

And also, I've got a friend whose in the army, 21, and has a newer shape m3 on a 12 plate i believe.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Kerr said:


> Don't buy German for reliability. You'll sadly be dissapointed as they aren't as reliable as you think. Lots of them are very weak.
> 
> Audi finished 2nd bottom for engine reliability according to warranty direct. BMW and VW weren't exactly good either. A few really weak models drag them right down.
> 
> The Japanese murder the Germans for reliability.


+1, my m3 was atrocious.

The injectors on the petrol 3 series have a bit of a rep too don't they still?

Coil packs and all these other things, just command a premium because it's bmw or audi or whatever.


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Kerr said:


> Don't buy German for reliability. You'll sadly be dissapointed as they aren't as reliable as you think. Lots of them are very weak.
> 
> Audi finished 2nd bottom for engine reliability according to warranty direct. BMW and VW weren't exactly good either. A few really weak models drag them right down.
> 
> The Japanese murder the Germans for reliability.


Agreed. However, the Japanese will never beat the Germans for build quality or style. They just don't get it.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Its not the fuel cost, they cme with anything, its when big bits break, jumping on ebay and finding a second hand engine for a 335i (extreme i know) isn't going to be cheap or easy compared to something more mainstream.

Also don't jump on the bandwagon believing German = Quality and reliabilty. The best thing to do is draw up a short list then go test driving, but your going to find your age is not going to help you jump in the driving seat on a demo. I'm sure Andy mentioned it but go and try something like a Boxster, the 2.7 should be more than enough although i still feel you should get a 406hdi


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Dannbodge said:


> I'm 23 and drive a 328i and have a friend who's 20 and has 525i.
> I'm considering a 530 as a daily car too.
> 
> M3s are fine for track use. Especially E36/E46s.


Have you driven an m3 on a track with any corners/changes in elevation?

I haven't really seen many 20 year olds in 5 series, mainly 30-40 yrs old.


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Young_JD said:


> A guy up the street has a mapped Leon fr, seems like a nice car & quite quick! May pop up tomorrow and have a chat with him.


They are a good looking car. Don't expect vw quality of materials though. The plastics in the mk2 Leon are disappointing.

The equivalent golf for that budget range is poorly specced and boring.

The Leon cupra is a bargain hot hatch. 240 hp as standard, stage one map to 300 hp. Get one easily for under 10k.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

rf860 said:


> Agreed. However, the Japanese will never beat the Germans for build quality or style. They just don't get it.


Lexus? Nissan gtr?


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

LFA10, yes please, Lexus styling is much nicer than BMW's too, Audi is too generic.


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

rf860 said:


> They are a good looking car. Don't expect vw quality of materials though. The plastics in the mk2 Leon are disappointing.
> 
> The equivalent golf for that budget range is poorly specced and boring.
> 
> The Leon cupra is a bargain hot hatch. 240 hp as standard, stage one map to 300 hp. Get one easily for under 10k.


What about the golf gt tdi mk5? Are they any good?


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

RisingPower said:


> Lexus? Nissan gtr?


Nope. The GTr is gimmicky inside IMO. I've always thought the interior styling of Lexus is dated.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

SteveTDCi said:


> LFA10, yes please, Lexus styling is much nicer than BMW's too, Audi is too generic.


Bmw went all outlandish with the e60s and the like and totally toned it down for the e90s imho. Audis mostly look like lumps of car.


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Young_JD said:


> What about the golf gt tdi mk5? Are they any good?


Good car, but boring IMO. The only mk5s worth having are the edition 30, Pirelli and r32.

The mk2 seat leon fr tdi is a much better looking car than the golf gt tdi. As I said previously though the interior is not up to the same quality.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

rf860 said:


> Nope. The GTr is gimmicky inside IMO. I've always thought the interior styling of Lexus is dated.


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

What is that? The red is garish.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Golf Mk5 GT TDi, been there done that and my god its boring, your 18 FFS, :lol:


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

rf860 said:


> What is that? The red is garish.


that'll be the flash of the camera, oh and it'll be the LFA.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

SteveTDCi said:


> Golf Mk5 GT TDi, been there done that and my god its boring, your 18 FFS, :lol:


Maybe he could just buy a tractor instead?


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

Local drug dealer has a 5 series!
I at 25 would have one to. Big car, bit of power, fits kid/soon to be kids in well.
People have different tastes.
I think the mk5 golf is one of the best, prefer the looks over the mk6 and the 170tdi goes quite well
@risingpower "lumps of car" genuius :lol:


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

SteveTDCi said:


> that'll be the flash of the camera, oh and it'll be the LFA.


Not a nice interior IMO.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

rf860 said:


> What is that? The red is garish.


Fine, white and black. It's a supercar, what are you expecting, wood?


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> +1, my m3 was atrocious.
> 
> The injectors on the petrol 3 series have a bit of a rep too don't they still?
> 
> Coil packs and all these other things, just command a premium because it's bmw or audi or whatever.


Probably every BMW has one or two significant weak spots.

The 2.0 diesel models seem to have a catalogue of issues and that's one of the most popular models.

The 335i has quite a few too. I would suggest to most people to have a warranty.

Mine is £380 per year and that's not too bad. It seems to be the 335i is the cheapest of the BMWs for a BMW insured warranty. Strange given it has more bits than many of the other BMWs.



rf860 said:


> Agreed. However, the Japanese will never beat the Germans for build quality or style. They just don't get it.


They are just clinical tools. Complete their function with minimal fuss.

Although I seen a white Lexus ISF today and thought it was rather nice. They make some nice cars.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

possul said:


> Local drug dealer has a 5 series!
> I at 25 would have one to. Big car, bit of power, fits kid/soon to be kids in well.
> People have different tastes.
> I think the mk5 golf is one of the best, prefer the looks over the mk6 and the 170tdi goes quite well
> @risingpower "lumps of car" genuius :lol:


Kids, 5 series, you're over the hill mate


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

rf860 said:


> Not a nice interior IMO.


Maybe some tartan seats and a cupholder would suit


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

By choice, not for a council house!


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Kerr said:


> Probably every BMW has one or significant weak spot.
> 
> The 2.0 diesel models seem to have a catalogue of issues and that's one of the most popular models.
> 
> ...


I think the internet vastly exaggerates the problems with 2.0d Bmws. I've owned one with highish mileage, my dad's had several and I had a few at my old work and none of them have ever had such a problem.

I'd still choose a m3 coupe over an ISF. Easy choice to me.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

rf860 said:


> Not a nice interior IMO.


I can vaguely appreciate that if you mean the plastic switchgear, but I think all german cars have that too.. Maybe the exclusion of the gumpert?

That being said, the zonda/huayra interior, what do you think of those?


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

SteveTDCi said:


> Maybe some tartan seats and a cupholder would suit


I just don't like it.

I'm not a massive fan of the tartan seats tbh. Cup holders come in handy though


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

RisingPower said:


> I can vaguely appreciate that if you mean the plastic switchgear, but I think all german cars have that too.. Maybe the exclusion of the gumpert?
> 
> That being said, the zonda/huayra interior, what do you think of those?


Plastic switchgear doesn't bother me. Just think the design isn't great. Think Aston Martin interior is far nicer.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

How about ....

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifi...otus-elise-16v-------------------2001/1922794


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

SteveTDCi said:


> How about ....
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/classifi...otus-elise-16v-------------------2001/1922794


He said comfortable lol.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

rf860 said:


> Plastic switchgear doesn't bother me. Just think the design isn't great. Think Aston Martin interior is far nicer.


They're british not german!


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

RisingPower said:


> They're british not german!


Even better ha ha


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Or ...

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifi...er-s-type-v8-r-------------------2005/1967888


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

SteveTDCi said:


> Or ...
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/classifi...er-s-type-v8-r-------------------2005/1967888


My old boss had one of them and I used to have to drive it on occasion. I was only 17 and felt like an idiot in it tbh ha ha. Very fast though.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

rf860 said:


> He said comfortable lol.


http://www.pistonheads.com/classifi...dillac-cts-sport-luxury-3-6-v6-310bhp/1773030

and it will have cup holders and plastic leather


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

SteveTDCi said:


> Or ...
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/classifi...er-s-type-v8-r-------------------2005/1967888


All he'd need would be a flatcap  Monaro would be comfortable if not expensive to run.


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

SteveTDCi said:


> http://www.pistonheads.com/classifi...dillac-cts-sport-luxury-3-6-v6-310bhp/1773030
> 
> and it will have cup holders and plastic leather


I've just came back from the USA. They have terrible styled cars and the interiors are cheap and nasty IMO. Can you tell I'm hard to please ?? Ha ha


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Flat cap worn back to front given his age 

What about ...

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifi.../corvette/chevrolet-gmc-corvette-1982/1846859


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

rf860 said:


> I've just came back from the USA. They have terrible styled cars and the interiors are cheap and nasty IMO. Can you tell I'm hard to please ?? Ha ha


Ford gt


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

RisingPower said:


> All he'd need would be a flatcap  Monaro would be comfortable if not expensive to run.


http://www.pistonheads.com/classifi...ual--only-56-000-miles--black-leather/1795588


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

SteveTDCi said:


> Flat cap worn back to front given his age
> 
> What about ...
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/classifi.../corvette/chevrolet-gmc-corvette-1982/1846859


Haha :lol:

Would certainly be different.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

RisingPower said:


> Haha :lol:
> 
> Would certainly be different.


YOu could hire one and hunt him dow 

http://www.usa-cop-cars.com/index.php/cars/sales/why-buy-from-us

You wait till the op gets here in the afternoon, he's probably just gone out on the lash while us oldies are on the internet :lol:


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## Young_JD (Mar 8, 2013)

Now things are getting out of hand :lol:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

SteveTDCi said:


> YOu could hire one and hunt him dow
> 
> http://www.usa-cop-cars.com/index.php/cars/sales/why-buy-from-us
> 
> You wait till the op gets here in the afternoon, he's probably just gone out on the lash while us oldies are on the internet :lol:


Who is going to pay €30,000 for an American police car? Bonkers.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

thats your own fault, you shouldn't leave us old non baseball cap wearing people alone with access to the internet.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

SteveTDCi said:


> thats your own fault, you shouldn't leave us old non baseball cap wearing people alone with access to the internet.


Flatcap!


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Kerr said:


> Who is going to pay €30,000 for an American police car? Bonkers.


You can put these on and run after him then :lol:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Skechers-...ysShoes_BoysShoes_JN&var=&hash=item3380341355


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

SteveTDCi said:


> You can put these on and run after him then :lol:
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Skechers-...ysShoes_BoysShoes_JN&var=&hash=item3380341355


I'm worried you know about all these sites and things exist.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Kerr said:


> Who is going to pay €30,000 for an American police car? Bonkers.


I would 

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...rsuit-awd-is-americas-fastest-police-car.html


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I didn't know they exist, I was actually looking for a cheap pedal car for you


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## Crispo (Mar 23, 2011)

This has been an interesting thread to read. I think you need to come up with an idea exactly what road your going down. In your first post you say you want to get rid of the ST then out of nowhere your saying it's going to be a track car. Decide if your going to run 1 or 2 cars as that is a deciding factor. 

If you keep the fiesta for track and fun you may as well just have a nice comfortable commuting car, no need for performance. If your running one car obviously you want the performance with comfort too which the BMW's will bring. 

I kind of have reference to this. When I was 21 I bought a Boxster as my fun car and just run a ****ty old Escort Van as my daily. Van nice and cheap to run so I could have money aside to maintain the Boxster. Then when a house was priority sold both and bought an e46 330d. Nice and comfortable for commuting to work but also good performance, especially after a remap. 

My advice is to just decide what path your going to go down as at the moment it sounds like you want a performance car as well as your st track car, which in my opinion is a clash and pointless. 

P.S if you go for mk5 golf. Go edition 30 and with a remap from r-tech you'll get 300hp with £200 change over revo.


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