# Most hydrophobic product ?



## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

*Best value, most hydrophobic product ?*

Any consensus on what is the most hydrophobic product out there ?

Can I narrow it down to stuff under £40 too, looking at things that are excellent value too

I keep seeing Fusso mentioned, this wasn't around when I was last on here, and a few Sonax and Turtle wax things too


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## RS3 (Mar 5, 2018)

Professional coatings such as Gtechniq ultra serum
Fusso coat is the most hydrophobic wax I've used but there are threads I've seen on here with speciality waxes that I cant remember where the beads look more like bubbles lifting off the surface. I'll have a search.


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## Carlos Fandango (Dec 24, 2016)

Fusso Coat Soft99 and Sonax BSD get my vote for excellent hydrophobicity for less than £40.


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Another vote for BSD
At £7.99 delivered 'tis a bit of a bargain

https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/p/sonax-xtreme-brilliant-shine-detailer-750ml-549992160


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

You want a product with a contact angle greater than 110 degrees for superb hydophobicity.

Something like Gtechniq Exo, CarPro Gliss or Carbon Collective Oracle will give you a great self-cleaning and durable LSP that keeps you car cleaner for longer.

These products are toppers for ceramic coatings but all of them can be used as stand alone LSP’s.

Alan W


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

Can you explain the contact angle part Alan? Sounds interesting.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

GeeWhizRS said:


> Can you explain the contact angle part Alan? Sounds interesting.


Basically the less of a bead of water that is in contact with the panel the greater the contact angle and the easier it will slide off.

Have look HERE for a better and more comprehensive explanation. :lol:

Alan W


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

Gotcha, thanks Alan.


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

Sonax extreme protect and shine npt is a step up from even bsd and fusso i think. Fusso will last longer though.Its normally around £13

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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

My own car wears CSL & Exo and putting aside personal experience on how they have fared durability-wise, Exo is a 7/10 beader at best.

In my experience there isn't a 'best' beader... there are different types of great water behaviour;

Optically - Sonax BSD has those perfect pronounced uniform 4D beads. I haven't seen anything top it.

Repellency - With forced air / on a Motorway Gyeon Cancoat flings water off quicker than anything I've seen.. it's so fun to watch. I have heard that the Skin coating offers even better, albeit short lived repellency.

Micro beading - Kamikaze Overcoat. This is a great compromise as you get great beading but the car still drys relatively quickly minimising the amount of dirt that encapsulates within the water.

I wonder how these three compare contact-angle wise?


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

BRUN said:


> Any consensus on what is the most hydrophobic product out there ?
> 
> Can I narrow it down to stuff under £40 too, looking at things that are excellent value too
> 
> I keep seeing Fusso mentioned, this wasn't around when I was last on here, and a few Sonax and Turtle wax things too


BRUN from the old Cliosport days ?

Fusso Coat 12 month coating is brilliant, great value too. £22 ish ?
Not too bad to apply (with a damp applicator sponge) and remove after 10-15 mins.
Beading is very very good, and lasts nicely. (I top with a 50:50 mix of Sonax BSD and Megs Ultimate QD)

Sonax BSD - Eurocarparts or Carparts4less for around £7.99
The Sonax is not the slickest of products and actually feels quite the opposite, almost sticky to the swipe test.
Beading is mental though.

At the moment I've been using [clears throat] ahem, Turtlewax Hydrophobic Sealant on my daily driver - on offer for something daft like £3.60 from ECP.
Slicker than Sonax BSD and beads just about as well.

Any of these three bargains will make your car look ridiculously good when it rains 

For something a bit different..
Try Polish Angel Master Sealant - approx £18 for 50ml which will do you a few cars.
Then top with Polish Angel Rapidwaxx - approx £18 for a supremely slick finish and a durable coating.

Just my experience of products I've used.

HTH


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## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

Yes that's me @James_R 😁


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

BRUN said:


> Yes that's me @James_R &#55357;&#56833;


Nice to hear from you again BRUN :wave:

Hehe, I joined Cliosport in 2006 when I bought my ph2 172.
I think you got hold of a ITG panel filter for me.

Since then I've had a 182 Cup, Twingo RS133 and now have [look left] a Mk3 Clio 200 in Liquid Yellow :argie:

Stick around mate :thumb:

Post up what products you end up going for mate - what you driving nowadays?


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## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

Still got my Fabia vRS, I tend to keep hold of my car's, only ever had 3 &#55357;&#56833;


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

Wowo’s contact 121 should be on this list. I’ll be testing it out in a few weeks.


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## Cyclonetog (Jul 22, 2018)

I recommended Fusso to my friend, but he couldn't get any so went for Water Block.

I think I'm a little bit jealous. They're very similar but Fusso is supposed to last longer and Water Block perform ever so slightly better.

TBH, I don't mind waxing every so often, so Water Block would've been the best choice for me too.


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

Is Oracle on this list? Been impressed so far

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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Eturty said:


> Is Oracle on this list? Been impressed so far


Yes, it has been mentioned. :thumb:

Alan W


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## alfajim (May 4, 2011)

Sonax PNS is great, you literally can't get the car wet to wash it. The water just sheets away.


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## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

are Sonax PNS and Xtreme Protect & Shine likely the same product ?

im thinking either one of these, or Fusso, need to make a decision and soon


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

BRUN said:


> are Sonax PNS and Xtreme Protect & Shine likely the same product ?
> 
> im thinking either one of these, or Fusso, need to make a decision and soon


I think the pns is the pro version... Protect and shine more user friendly. Dont think there is much between them. Apply to bare paint 

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## JoeyJoeJo (Jan 3, 2014)

Check out the beads from Waterblock Extra Gloss
https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=389461

You'll see the beads are really tall with a full roundness, a sign of a high contact angle.

So many pics of beading on instagram of supposedly "ace beading" where they are all flat and non uniform so not actually great (imho but as long as people are happy with that, good for them).

Wowo's 121 is also very good but I can't find any pics right now. Waterblock for the money is astonishing.


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## Fatboy40 (Apr 15, 2013)

In my personal opinion the most hydrophobic products I've come across are those with a fluorinated silicon as their primary component, so we're talking "spray and rinse" products (which there are so many of, Turtlewax Dry & Shine is so good for the price, but for me CarPro Hydro2 concentrate was more hydrophobic by a small margin). In my reading is seems that in general fluorinated products take something into the superhydrophobic category https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superhydrophobic_coating

On their own they're great, but short lived, and perform substantially better when on a suitable surface that's already coated in some way. So for me a surface primed with say CarPro Essence, then coated, and a "spray and rinse" on top is amazing (but the short superhydrophobicity is short lived).

I've not yet used a secondary coating like Gliss or Exo.


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

JoeyJoeJo said:


> Check out the beads from Waterblock Extra Gloss
> https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=389461
> 
> You'll see the beads are really tall with a full roundness, a sign of a high contact angle.
> ...


I have waterblock, fusso, bsd, sonax extreme protect and shine amongst others and on prepped paint i think protect and shine comes out on top. There isnt to much in it compared with the soft 99 products though

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## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

pt1 said:


> I have waterblock, fusso, bsd, sonax extreme protect and shine amongst others and on prepped paint i think protect and shine comes out on top. There isnt to much in it compared with the soft 99 products though
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


thanks, if their isnt much in it, im thinking maybe go with Fusso with it lasting so long, im not on top of car cleaning anymore so something long lasting would edge it for me


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

I find without regular cleaning even the most hydrophobic coating will still get cacked up 

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## Boothy (Aug 19, 2010)

As per everyone else, Sonax BSD and Fusso Cost are pretty hard to beat with going down the costing avenue.
I'll put Sonax Polymer Net Shield out there though too. Beads like BSD but lasts longer. Just doesn't feel very slick to the touch. 

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

im seeing different pictures of this fusso around the sites, are their different versions ?


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

Have a look at this Brun.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Fusso is no nonsense. It has very good water beading. Sonax Polymer Netshield or Hybrid NPT and BSD are part of a 2 part system - the PNS or NPT are the base sealant (very beady, ridiculous) and BSD is the top up product. They have similar chemistry and the lack of slickness is how they produce their beads - the lotus effect they mention is like the leaves of the lotus flower. Microscopically, this is not smooth, but produces crazy beads.


The MOST beady product I have ever used is Wowo's Noanocoat. It isn't sold now, but it was their top of the range 'wax'. 124 deg contact angle and very slick. It was a paste coating really. Their Contact 121 Wax is very similar, will probably last 6 months too.


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

BRUN said:


> im seeing different pictures of this fusso around the sites, are their different versions ?


Fusso Dark 12 month coat and Fusso Light 12 month coat.

I had both, but I've sold the light one to a mate and I just use the dark on the grey and yellow.


IMG_2023 by *JMR*, on Flickr


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

IMHO the best beader is Sonax Polymer netshield (PNS) and Sonax brilliant shine detailer. And no, I have not used all the products on the market. 

I have also used Soft 99 fusso coat (both the paste and liquid version) and they are also very good. On a non scientific test I did on my car; I used PNS on one side of the hood and Fusso coat 7 on the other side. After a wash or in rain I tested to drive the car and the side who had PNS was beading "off the water" faster then the fusso side. I also noticed that PNS was cleaner for a longer time then the Fusso side.


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## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

is one better than the other between Xtreme Protect & Shine Hybrid NPT and ProfiLine Polymer Net Shield

I understand the Profiline is the 'trade/pro' product but does that make it better ?

also does the Fusso really last 12 months ?


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

BRUN said:


> is one better than the other between Xtreme Protect & Shine Hybrid NPT and ProfiLine Polymer Net Shield
> 
> I understand the Profiline is the 'trade/pro' product but does that make it better ?
> 
> also does the Fusso really last 12 months ?


IMO there isn't differences with those two Sonax regarding beading. PNS is more durable but Protect&Shine should give you about 10000km and 4-5 months durability.

About Fusso. I detailed one car after 10 months and Fusso was still holding quite well. It was also reqularly washed (once every two weeks or so). Though it was old version from Fusso.


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## Stu-TDi (Nov 16, 2011)

I haven't seen Chemical Guys Hydro products mentioned here? Hydroslick, Hydrocharge and Hydrosuds.... has anyone got any experience with these products?


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## crxftyyy (Jan 17, 2018)

Personally love the Simplewax waxes, ease of use and every one is a bead monster! 200ml pots are all £40 or under, and the new V2 Armour has just been released! 

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## crxftyyy (Jan 17, 2018)

Sheep said:


> Wowo's contact 121 should be on this list. I'll be testing it out in a few weeks.


Actually any of the Wowo Waxes should be, they're fantastic beaders! Tried 121 myself and picked up Signature and the now Mallow Wax, absolute dream to use!

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## Guy182 (Dec 30, 2005)

James_R said:


> Nice to hear from you again BRUN :wave:
> 
> Hehe, I joined Cliosport in 2006 when I bought my ph2 172.
> I think you got hold of a ITG panel filter for me.
> ...


I joined there in 2005. Had a metallic blue 182 back then (hence my username on here). Moved onto a few different cars then had an Inferno 182 cup track car for a bit :driver:


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

Stu-TDi said:


> I haven't seen Chemical Guys Hydro products mentioned here? Hydroslick, Hydrocharge and Hydrosuds.... has anyone got any experience with these products?


From what I've seen on youtube they're decent, but it seems a lot of those "dump chemicals on LSP" channels can't follow application instructions properly so we never know good they can really be. I've heard the Hydroslick (the gel version) can be a pain to use, but it also seems to be legit, with real SiO2 content (hardens in a towel, dries to a very hard non buff-able spot if missed).


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## Stu-TDi (Nov 16, 2011)

Sheep said:


> From what I've seen on youtube they're decent, but it seems a lot of those "dump chemicals on LSP" channels can't follow application instructions properly so we never know good they can really be. I've heard the Hydroslick (the gel version) can be a pain to use, but it also seems to be legit, with real SiO2 content (hardens in a towel, dries to a very hard non buff-able spot if missed).


Ive actually bought and used Hydroslick since I asked the question and it is very easy to apply and remove (just dont use too much product on the applicator and make sure its a microfibre one not sponge). The surface is amazingly slick and beading is insane. Would recommend it highly. As for durability, we will have to wait and see :thumb:


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## Kyle 86 (Jun 15, 2013)

Soft 99 water block and sonax BSD and PNS are the best. Nothing comes close 

Next best thing is probably zymol glasur

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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

Stu-TDi said:


> Ive actually bought and used Hydroslick since I asked the question and it is very easy to apply and remove (just dont use too much product on the applicator and make sure its a microfibre one not sponge). The surface is amazingly slick and beading is insane. Would recommend it highly. As for durability, we will have to wait and see :thumb:


oh cool, thanks for the info. How much did it take to get around a car? It's not cheap stuff at ~$50-60 for a bottle.


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## alfajim (May 4, 2011)

Kyle 86 said:


> Soft 99 water block and sonax BSD and PNS are the best. Nothing comes close
> 
> Next best thing is probably zymol glasur
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


I use PNS and after a few months I put sonax spray and seal on top. 
Water shoots off.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

If Sonax can find a way to add some slickness to PNS, it will be really hard to beat over all. It's such an impressive product to use overall.


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## ifadey (Nov 14, 2018)

Most people know Fusso from the Soft99 line for its water behavior and durability but Water Block is the most hydrophobic wax in their line.
Slightly more hydrophobic than Fusso but its durability is 4 months. Also easier to apply than Fusso.


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## gloss.lab (Feb 23, 2020)

When it comes to paste wax/sealants.

Put 50/50 S99 Fusso Coat 12 vs Water Block.
Pour stream of water. You will see water will escape much faster on one of them. I confirm that Water block is most hydrophobic of S99 products.


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## p1tse (Feb 4, 2007)

Sheep said:


> If Sonax can find a way to add some slickness to PNS, it will be really hard to beat over all. It's such an impressive product to use overall.


Is this PNS
How is it applied?

https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/p/sonax-sonax-profiline-polymer-net-shield-340ml-552981270


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## Yellow Dave (Apr 5, 2011)

p1tse said:


> Is this PNS
> How is it applied?
> 
> https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/p/sonax-sonax-profiline-polymer-net-shield-340ml-552981270


That's a good price for the bigger can.

I spray directly onto a microfibre applicator and spread over half a bonnet then remove. Don't leave to cure for too long otherwise it can be difficult to remove


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Sheep said:


> If Sonax can find a way to add some slickness to PNS, it will be really hard to beat over all. It's such an impressive product to use overall.


The 'grabbiness' is what gives PNS and BSD their water behaviour. They describe it as a lotus effect, basically instead of it being slick to create beads, it mimics the lotus leaf. This isn't smooth, but microscopically rough which promotes the water beading. Sonax have tried to mimic this with these products.










Wikipedia explains the hydrophobicity of a surface can be measured by its contact angle. The higher the contact angle the higher the hydrophobicity of a surface. Surfaces with a contact angle < 90° are referred to as hydrophilic and those with an angle >90° as hydrophobic. Some plants show contact angles up to 160° and are called ultrahydrophobic, meaning that only 2-3% of the surface of a droplet (of typical size) is in contact. Plants with a double structured surface like the lotus can reach a contact angle of 170°, whereby the droplet's contact area is only 0.6%. All this leads to a self-cleaning effect.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

roscopervis said:


> The 'grabbiness' is what gives PNS and BSD their water behaviour. They describe it as a lotus effect, basically instead of it being slick to create beads, it mimics the lotus leaf. This isn't smooth, but microscopically rough which promotes the water beading. Sonax have tried to mimic this with these products.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh I know how the plants work, it's like a super fine hair/fuzz on some that causes the water to bead up. I would like to see them find away to allow a more slick surface and keep the contact angles. WOWO's contact 121 is as hydrophobic as Sonax PNS but slicker in feel, so it's definitely possible.


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## BarryAllen (Feb 3, 2017)

Sheep said:


> If Sonax can find a way to add some slickness to PNS, it will be really hard to beat over all. It's such an impressive product to use overall.


If they could make its application like Meguiars Ultimate Fast Finish and stay close to its current price then they would smash the market.


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## Stu-TDi (Nov 16, 2011)

Sheep said:


> oh cool, thanks for the info. How much did it take to get around a car? It's not cheap stuff at ~$50-60 for a bottle.


I would say it took about 1/10 of a bottle to do 2 coats on my 1 Series BMW. :buffer:


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Sheep said:


> Oh I know how the plants work, it's like a super fine hair/fuzz on some that causes the water to bead up. I would like to see them find away to allow a more slick surface and keep the contact angles. WOWO's contact 121 is as hydrophobic as Sonax PNS but slicker in feel, so it's definitely possible.


I get you. A lot of people don't realise that what Sonax were doing so try and change it with mixing or whatever. I personally don't mind the 'grabiness' so just go with it.

I agree, Contact 121 is also as hydrophobic as I've seen, but slick (actually, I think their Nanowax is a little bit more hydrophobic) so if you like slick and a really sharp reflective gloss, then it's a great product.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

roscopervis said:


> I get you. A lot of people don't realise that what Sonax were doing so try and change it with mixing or whatever. I personally don't mind the 'grabiness' so just go with it.
> 
> I agree, Contact 121 is also as hydrophobic as I've seen, but slick (actually, I think their Nanowax is a little bit more hydrophobic) so if you like slick and a really sharp reflective gloss, then it's a great product.


I'm still waiting on my contact 121 to arrive, hopefully soon. I picked up Meguiars hybrid ceramic liquid wax and the detailer yesterday. Coated the hood last night and will be playing with toppers today.


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

Sheep said:


> I'm still waiting on my contact 121 to arrive...


I'd be interested to hear how you find the durability on this product if you remember in the coming months. :thumb:


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## Kyle 86 (Jun 15, 2013)

alfajim said:


> I use PNS and after a few months I put sonax spray and seal on top.
> 
> Water shoots off.


That's exactly what I do for winter. PNS then top it with BSD. It's a winner

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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

GeeWhizRS said:


> I'd be interested to hear how you find the durability on this product if you remember in the coming months. :thumb:


Yeah! Thanks again for sending it! I plan on putting a few supposedly "durable" products on my car coming up, was just waiting for this pen to arrive before I got started. I have a lot of reviews and tests in the works, just takes a bit more time right now with the newborn. Should have a new one posted today.


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

Think you're confusing me with someone else buddy, I haven't sent you anything. 😂 Just an interested party is all. :thumb:


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## rik220 (Apr 6, 2013)

Sonax protect and shine on glass with the residue wiped off with BSD lasts months. My glass is still beading easily 10months since it was applied.

This is how I apply protect and shine to paint also, spray directly and wipe with microfibre. Do the whole car and then back over with BSD to remove the streaks/residue from protect and shine. Beads great for a long time.


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## Berylburton (Sep 14, 2013)

Be careful with pictures of beading. The beads that form depend to a large degree on the flow of water hitting the surface. Product A would look different with torrential rain as opposed to a fine mist of water.


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

Kyle 86 said:


> That's exactly what I do for winter. PNS then top it with BSD. It's a winner
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Whats PNS?


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Sonax Polymer Netshield


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## AB_ (Apr 16, 2020)

The title says 'product' not 'LSP' and I read somewhere that the only super hydrophobic (>150 degrees) products are ceramic glass and fabric coatings where there is very very little water in contact with the surface.


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## leeandfay (May 2, 2017)

Sonax BSD for speed of application and beads but lacks severely in slickness (Feels tacky almost) and lasts 2-4 weeks in my experience anyway.

Fusso is also very capable


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

GeeWhizRS said:


> Think you're confusing me with someone else buddy, I haven't sent you anything. 😂 Just an interested party is all. :thumb:


My bad, you have a similar name to the sender. A lot of sleepless nights with the new born is adding up.


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## Ryan77 (May 28, 2020)

Sheep said:


> From what I've seen on youtube they're decent, but it seems a lot of those "dump chemicals on LSP" channels can't follow application instructions properly so we never know good they can really be. I've heard the Hydroslick (the gel version) can be a pain to use, but it also seems to be legit, with real SiO2 content (hardens in a towel, dries to a very hard non buff-able spot if missed).


I'm hooked on the Hydrocharge spray on paint. I've just applied the second coat. I've also got tHydroslick and plan to top the HC at the weekend.

Hydrocharge beading is brilliant, will be interesting to see see how Hydroslick beads when I apply it. Will let you know.

Here is my car with 2 coats of Hydrocharge after VSS applied by DA polisher.


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## GSI-MAN (Sep 12, 2017)

I have used Infinity Supergloss plus wax lately 
And it really is amazing 
Water behaviour is crazy 
It is allergic to it


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## SadlyDistracted (Jan 18, 2013)

How about the wash on rinse off Autoglym COAT-IT, their Super Hydrophobic Coating?

Although my cars are csl+exo'd every couple of years, in between after several months 6+ and the beading dies down, I've found that a dose of this is great, also very handy for a wheels, under the arches, suspension etc, even a hopeful dose on the 'carpet' wheel arches to help them stay dry (I did say hopeful).
Only problem is getting any on the windscreen as I like 'nude' glass for good wiping.
Seems better than Waterglass or Hydro2 to me, and cheaper, although havn't yet used Gyeon Cancoat or Krystal Kleen Detail Purity X.
Would be great to see a comparison of these!


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