# another "what am i doing wrong" :)



## Mark43 (Aug 12, 2007)

So used the DA today for the first time on the wife's Citroen DS3.

The car isnt that old but the first owner obviously mistreated it and it really is very swirly.

So machined in this order bearing in mind its meant to have softish paint

Hex Logic White pad - Menzerna PO 85 RE
Hex Logic White Pad - Menzerna PO 203 S
Hex Logic White Pad - Menzerna PO 85 RD 3.02

This had no effect so changed to a Green pad and repeated as above.

Again i could see no difference so tried the Orange pad and only started to see any difference when using the PO 85 RD 3.02.

I would say i got about 50% correction but i have no other pads or polishes to try out and to be honest with the supposed soft paint i am a bit concerned about anything with more cut.

I spread on the polish at speed 2 then worked it at speed 4 for 5/6 passes then speed 6 to finish.

Should i have gone back over this with a finishing pad and polish perhaps?

Any thoughts on my next move please.......feel free to be brutally honest with me lol


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## +MJ+ (Apr 16, 2011)

I'll be keeping an eye out for replies to this as I had a similar problem with my megane with suposadly soft paint. I spent 2 days machine polishing it using a SFX-1 and menz 85RD 3.02 I would say It's 75% done and even then I had to do a nother pass with more polish to get the swirls down. I used SRP after so without that it'll probably look even worse. 

When I was looking at buying a machine polisher alot of people said be carefull as you can burn through the paint yet I'm finding the opposite! I'll probably end up getting some S500 when CYC get it in stock but is there different levels of cut in cutting pads or is a SFX-1 pad just as abrasive as a megs burgandy?


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Sorry guys but a rotary is the machine to use, DA's are really for final finishing.

SRP is not a polish for machining, just dusts up with no real use.


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## Mr Face (Jan 22, 2009)

If your expectation is to get a 100% in a day using a DA you will be disappointed. You dont mention pressure, after you have had one/two passes spreading the polish you need to exert about 10 lbs of pressure (5kg in new money) you will hear a slight change in tone of the DA when you have the pressure right.

East the elephant in bite sized chunks :thumb: with a DA work area's between 12 & 18 inches no more. (apols not sure what that is in new money  )

Spread using little pressure speed 1 - 2 
Start to work the centre of the work area at speed 3 moderate/half pressure for 3 or four passes 
Work the area with full pressure at speed 4 or 5 with full pressure for 3 passes

Then back down as you went up

A couple of passes at speed 3 with moderate pressure and then
A couple (3 or 4) passes at speed 2 with very little pressure.

Mark you area up with 3M tape and focus your efforts on that one area.

RD85 3.02 on a white polishing pad should do the trick if not a green pad will make a dent in it.

Eat the elephant slowly, many experienced detailers on this site still use and swear by DA's :

If you havent already, print this off and read it. Its gold and should be your bible.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=63859

Hope that helps.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=172713

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=186835


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## BAXRY (Aug 11, 2009)

Hi Mark,

The CG Hex Logic white pads have no cut whats so ever so using a polish with a no cut pad will only remove slight marks and its usually reserved for just mopping up slight machine marks and finishing touches.

I use Sonus SFX but the Menzerna should do the same job but I can't quote exactly which one you should use because I don't know which ones are witch but I would go with...

Orange Pad > Medium cut polish
If that didn't work I would stick with an Orange pad but go with a high cut polish and then work back down the scale...

Green Pad > Medium cut polish
White Pad > Finishing polish
White Pad > Glaze (if you choose to) 

Don't forget if its heavily damaged you will have to cut a lot to get correction and when your cutting that much you will be left with lots of marks left by the machine that get removed when you come back down the scale and refine the paint.

Good luck

Barry.


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## BAXRY (Aug 11, 2009)

+MJ+ said:


> I'll be keeping an eye out for replies to this as I had a similar problem with my megane with suposadly soft paint. I spent 2 days machine polishing it using a SFX-1 and menz 85RD 3.02 I would say It's 75% done and even then I had to do a nother pass with more polish to get the swirls down. I used SRP after so without that it'll probably look even worse.
> 
> When I was looking at buying a machine polisher alot of people said be carefull as you can burn through the paint yet I'm finding the opposite! I'll probably end up getting some S500 when CYC get it in stock but is there different levels of cut in cutting pads or is a SFX-1 pad just as abrasive as a megs burgandy?


Meg paint is very hard :thumb: the stereotype is that French paint is soft I can't say for other manufacturers but New Renault paint in my experience is rock solid.

An SFX 1 pad will leave swirls despite being advertised as a swirl removing pad, I would say SFX1 is a scratch and major swirl pad, SFX2 is perfect for swirls and its where I would start on any job. If I didn't get the correction I was looking for then I would then step up to the SFX1 but not before.

Barry.


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## bero1306 (Jan 24, 2011)

Ive just used mine for the first time on Black Ford Paint with a white Hexlocic pad and Menzerna 203s only and got about 90% correction. Only spent about 2 hours on whole car so i think i might have another go soon.


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## Mark43 (Aug 12, 2007)

Thanks for the replies guys.Some food for thought there.


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## +MJ+ (Apr 16, 2011)

Thanks Mr. Face. I did have a read of the DA bible before starting but on the DAS6 instructions it said use no force on the polisher. I'll have another go applying a little force.

Thanks Barry. I'm a member of MS.net and it's regarded as soft on there, I know everyone has major probles keeping there black cars swirl free. Guess what colour I chose :wave: I'll try the white SFX-2 out with 3.02 on my bonnet today. Is the SFX-1 regarded as a pritty crap cutting pad then? Would I be better with a megs burgandy for example?


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## +MJ+ (Apr 16, 2011)

Just tried the SFX-2 white polishing pad with menz 2500 using the above method and results are much better allthough I found I had to work on very small areas at a time. I touched the paint after finishing and there was plenty of heat there. If I widened the work area results were worse and I could still see the swilrs. However, I still noticed a few scratches even on the smaller work areas. They weren't catching the nail so thought they would of been removed. Does this sound normal?

Mirror finsh - I applied the SRP by hand to try and fill any remaining swirs but under direct sunlight they were still visable.


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## BAXRY (Aug 11, 2009)

+MJ+ said:


> Thanks Barry. I'm a member of MS.net and it's regarded as soft on there, I know everyone has major probles *keeping there black cars swirl free.* Guess what colour I chose :wave: I'll try the white SFX-2 out with 3.02 on my bonnet today. *Is the SFX-1 regarded as a pritty crap cutting pad then?* Would I be better with a megs burgandy for example?


Yours might be soft then I wonder if it is a color thing because I've always had the red same color on all my Renaults 



+MJ+ said:


> Just tried the SFX-2 white polishing pad with menz 2500 using the above method and results are much better allthough I found I had to work on very small areas at a time. I touched the paint after finishing and there was plenty of heat there. *If I widened the work area results were worse* and I could still see the swilrs. However, *I still noticed a few scratches even on the smaller work areas. They weren't catching the nail* so thought they would of been removed. Does this sound normal?


The scratches :- If you think they can be corrected (I won't recommend heavy cutting without seeing it personally) and your nail isn't catching break out the SFX1 again and hit the area with that.

Marks remain from SFX2 and SFX1 being a "pretty crap cutting pad" :- SFX1 is a great cutting pad in my opinion but thats exactly what its doing its cutting your paint so it can leave lots of marks and its the same with your SFX2 leaving marks after you work big areas its because those slight marks would be removed with a SFX3 and a light polish, it sounds like your rushing through things rather than taking your time.

When ever you use a certain level of cut you should come back down the scale e.g...

Heavy cut > Heavy polish > Light polish > refine (usually with a no cut pad and a low cut polish)

Some times you can skip when your coming back down but only if your prepared to put in the elbow work with a lower one but you ALWAYS want to do a light polish at the end thats what gives the depth of shine and that would remove any marks from SFX2.

Also don't forget DA's are very slow cutting machines anyway, (hence why people recommended them to people that are new to machine polishing) this could be another reason why you think it may not be cutting. You tend to have to work a DA more than than a Rotary.

Hope that helps,

Barry.


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## Mr Face (Jan 22, 2009)

+MJ+ said:


> Just tried the SFX-2 white polishing pad with menz 2500 using the above method and results are much better allthough I found I had to work on very small areas at a time. I touched the paint after finishing and there was plenty of heat there. If I widened the work area results were worse and I could still see the swilrs. However, I still noticed a few scratches even on the smaller work areas. They weren't catching the nail so thought they would of been removed. Does this sound normal?
> 
> Mirror finsh - I applied the SRP by hand to try and fill any remaining swirs but under direct sunlight they were still visable.


Eat the elephant one bite at a time, be happy with half the car this weekend and half next. :thumb: You will get there


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

First thing I'll say - don't assume paint hardness based on a badge. I see so much of this, and people buying kits based on hard and soft paint and it is madness - you just don't know what the paint is like until you start to polish it and you should never assume. There may be trends, but then there are always cars out there which will buck the trend. 

Next thing - you don't need a rotary to get correction! A DA is perfctly capable when it is used correctly! But you have to be sure you are using it correctly. Very small areas at a time, no more than 1' square (which is pretty bloody small), and work with pressure and slow movement speeds for a goof four or five minutes per section. It is a slow progress but you need to be slow and steady to get the results, but perservere and keep you work area small and work times long and the correction will happen.

Step back down to abrasive scale, and adjust your technique instead - bring your work area in and increase your work times and develop this before heading way up the cutting scale and you'll find you achieve more correction.


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## +MJ+ (Apr 16, 2011)

Thanks for the replies guys, some great info and appologies to the OP for hijacking his thread but I think it's still valuble info for alot of novices. I had a play yesterday and can confirm that Renault sport black must have brie mixed with it it's that soft. I was assuming I hadn't corrected it properly as it's only been a week since I did it but it's now covered in swirls again. Infact it's just that the paint has swirled up allready!

I was able to de-swirl yesterday using a LC finishing pad and menz 3000. I did the whole bonnet doing very small sections at a time, working the polish till there was just a light film left (approx 5 mins on 5-6 speed). I got the torch on the bonnet and apart from the odd scratch it was swirl free. After applying and buffing off the wax I could allready see some light swirl marks appearing :devil: The wax was aplied with a sponge applicator and buffed off with a small MF towel. I just can't beleive it's so soft. I'll be concentrating my efforts to finding a good filling glaze for black now as I think I'm fighting a loosing battle trying to keep it genuenly swirl free.


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## gregb (Feb 1, 2009)

Did you do an ipa wipedown after polishing and before applying wax ? Sones to me like polish residue was hiding the swirls and then when you waxed and buffed the swirls became visible again as they were never fully removed. It's unlikely you inflicted swirls with wax and an applicator assuming of course they were both clean.


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## BAXRY (Aug 11, 2009)

gregb said:


> Did you do an ipa wipedown after polishing and before applying wax ? Sones to me like polish residue was hiding the swirls and then when you waxed and buffed the swirls became visible again as they were never fully removed. It's unlikely you inflicted swirls with wax and an applicator assuming of course they were both clean.


+1 good post


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## +MJ+ (Apr 16, 2011)

gregb said:


> Did you do an ipa wipedown after polishing and before applying wax ?


Nope  :lol:


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