# Whatsapp changes to terms & conditions



## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

I've been given a heads up about some changes to the Whatsapp terms and conditions which seem to give them an opportunity to have a field day with all your info including the chance to sell it on to advertisers etc. :doublesho

Around February non agreement will mean you can't use Whatsapp.

Not being keen on this I'm changing to "Telegram"

https://telegram.org/

Wondering if anyone else has picked upon the Whatsapp changes.

Andy


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## The happy goat (Jun 26, 2019)

From what i can see it doesn’t include the UK & Europe


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

As far as i can tell it only applies to users outside of Europe and according to a spokesperon the changes will not affect anyone in the European zone, including the UK and that was mentioned 3 days ago

The thing is, they have always shared your personal details with Facebook ever since Facebook bought whatsapp and Instagram but this was the articla i saw
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...-terms-facebook-rules-explained-b1784469.html


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Not really sure what info of mine would be that useful.


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## AnthonyUK (Jul 25, 2018)

Also worth trying Signal as it is similar to Whatsapp without the privacy issues.


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## macca666 (Mar 30, 2010)

As others have said it doesn't appear to affect UK and Europe. There's been a lot of publicity about it recently in news I've already had a message on WhatsApp as well about it indicating a change of terms and conditions.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

I think it will be rolled out to the entire globe but they say they don't harvest data from the European Zone including us for now.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

if you're not paying for the product, you are the product.


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

I binned WhatsApp yesterday. There are news websites stating that this doesn't affect European users (inc UK for now). If you look at the terms on Whatsapp's website there is no reference to that I could see. I've been waiting for them to tweak their terms in this way since Facebook bought WhatsApp in 2014. There are other issues but the very fact that they can share you mobile number with Facebook or partner companies is enough for me. If you are jumping ship, you need to delete your account before uninstalling the WhatsApp.
I'm currently using Telegram as I think that will be easier for my family to use and I have some friends already using it. Although, Signal has the benefit of video calling.


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## BrummyPete (Jun 10, 2010)

fatdazza said:


> if you're not paying for the product, you are the product.


Social dilemma


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

BrummyPete said:


> Social dilemma


I'm antisocial :lol:


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

fatdazza said:


> I'm antisocial :lol:


That makes 2 of us :lol:


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

muzzer said:


> That makes 2 of us :lol:


And another one here! :lol:

Alan W


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Alan W said:


> And another one here! :lol:
> 
> Alan W


Im not too bad but hate video calling. Even really close family or my best mate, I just don't get it. So, maybe I am. :lol:


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Hi,

Just been doing a bit of reading around this and found:

https://www.slashgear.com/whatsapp-changes-terms-of-service-things-to-know-and-better-alternatives-10654305/

The upshot is another alternative called Signal.

Maybe worth a look.

https://www.signal.org/

I think I'll probably have both.

Andy.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

AndyN01 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just been doing a bit of reading around this and found:
> 
> ...


Using signal, does the other person have to be using it as well?


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

Darlofan said:


> Using signal, does the other person have to be using it as well?


Yes they do.


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## AnthonyUK (Jul 25, 2018)

Darlofan said:


> Using signal, does the other person have to be using it as well?


They do. It has pretty much the same features as WhatsApp without the data sharing.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

But the update is for outside of the european zone, so wont affect the UK for now.
However, if you think this warrants binning whatsapp, then you will have to get rid of facebook and Instagram too as they are all part of facebook and data share.
All forms of social media share your data or have access to it in one form or another, its how adverts always seem to be targeted at you.
The only way to fully protect your data is to stop using the internet and dont have a smart phone. Whether we like it or not, we are far more scrutinized than one company sharing your data with another and who might be able to send you adverts.


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

It should be noted that if you clicked to accept the new terms, if you are within the European Zone the new terms will apply. You can opt out.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

To be honest is it that much of an issue? Every app you download asks for permissions, some, if you don't allow you can't use the app,a lot of websites when using or buying things seem to be the same. However, my mobile is not being bombarded with messages and calls from God knows where trying to sell me stuff. I'm lucky if I get a couple of calls a month from unknown numbers and then I just block them. Our home phone gets more and I never input that onto anything.


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

I have never used Facebook or Instagram. The whole Cambridge Analytica debacle was a disgrace. Watch "The Great Hack" if you haven't seen it.
Any closer involvement of WhatsApp with Facebook is unacceptable to me hence closing my account; but as muzzer said, if you use Facebook or Instagram anyway it'll make no difference to you.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

I think for me the thing to remember is, all of these smart phones have back doors built in to them, the only difference is WHO can access the information. But be under no illusions, if the authorities want to gain access to your data, then they can, this whatsapp thing is just a commercial way of saying we are watching YOU.

Been doing it for years in the UK. Yes you should be able to use a device without worrying about who might be seeing your phone number etc but in this day and age, overview will always be king and there isnt really a great deal we can do about it.


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## Vossman (Aug 5, 2010)

GeeWhizRS said:


> I binned WhatsApp yesterday. There are news websites stating that this doesn't affect European users (inc UK for now). If you look at the terms on Whatsapp's website there is no reference to that I could see. I've been waiting for them to tweak their terms in this way since Facebook bought WhatsApp in 2014. There are other issues but the very fact that they can share you mobile number with Facebook or partner companies is enough for me. If you are jumping ship, you need to delete your account before uninstalling the WhatsApp.
> I'm currently using Telegram as I think that will be easier for my family to use and I have some friends already using it. Although, Signal has the benefit of video calling.


I have been using Signal for some time now, as with Telegram it's so much more secure than WhatsApp, it's only a matter of time before WhatsApp find a way around the EU/UK privacy block. 
The only problem I have is that some of my friends are on Telegram and some are on Signal so I have to have both :lol:


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

Vossman said:


> I have been using Signal for some time now, as with Telegram it's so much more secure than WhatsApp, it's only a matter of time before WhatsApp find a way around the EU/UK privacy block.
> The only problem I have is that some of my friends are on Telegram and some are on Signal so I have to have both :lol:


Yess of course it is but do people really think that swapping to a different app means that people can't access your data? If they want to get access to your data, they will get it one way or another.


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

As I have never used either Facebook or Instagram - and never will - I have nothing to lose by ditching Whatsapp.

I have no doubt that the various Security Services can and do access whatever they want and I am grateful for that. 

Commercial companies doing it by hiding it in several thousands of words of terms & conditions is a no no for me.

I generally use small business whenever I can. I've ditched Amazon as I consider them little better than a medieval lord flogging their serfs. I find the greed from the large corporations to be unpalatable so I try not to add to it.

I know my actions make diddly squat difference to the big boys, but they help the small, local guys and girls stay in business and provide decent jobs.

Each to their own.


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## AnthonyUK (Jul 25, 2018)

muzzer said:


> Yess of course it is but do people really think that swapping to a different app means that people can't access your data? If they want to get access to your data, they will get it one way or another.


Why do you think there was a big furore in the US over Apple last year?
It is because data in the secure enclave of the Apple device is secure to the point where the authorities had to pay more than $1 mil to a hacker to unlock a device using an exploit that had now likely been closed.
I can't speak for Android but it can be as secure as Apple but not by default.

Certain things are accessible in Whatsapp such as metadata but not the content of what is transmitted.

Whatsapp uses the same encryption protocol as Signal 

Given the choice of not sharing data with Facebook, I choose it everytime and do not use it.

As mentioned, if you do use it, YOU are the product.


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

I don't really think facebook are that interested in the content of your messaging... yet. But be aware, if someone sends you a WhatsApp message and you open it, facebook and their targeted advertising will know where you are. Whether or not you use facebook or not, your location information is valuable to facebook.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

AnthonyUK said:


> They do. It has pretty much the same features as WhatsApp without the data sharing.


Your data is never save from companies doing what they want with it.

How do you know Signal isn't a FBI BlackOps company and this is their plan to get even more information from everyone? :lol: 

:thumb:


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

I can't really see exactly what people are worried about. As long as my banking stuff is secure I'm not really bothered if FB, what's app etc know that I had a BBQ last night(oooh it was good), or that i need a mate to post me 2 jars of marmalade out. That's what my whatsapp consisted of yesterday:lol:

Biggest pain probably is watching what I search for if using the laptop as it'll quickly show in adverts. So the wife knows that I have been looking at more detailing stuff!


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## AnthonyUK (Jul 25, 2018)

The Cueball said:


> Your data is never save from companies doing what they want with it.
> 
> How do you know Signal isn't a FBI BlackOps company and this is their plan to get even more information from everyone? :lol:
> 
> :thumb:


If you understand the underlying technology then you would also understand that this is not an issue 

With Signal having encryption enabled by default (unlike Telegram), they do not store any messages as it is pointless, they are encrypted and hence have none of your data. 
Being open source, the people who are experts in this field have deemed Signal to be as good as it gets currently.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

AnthonyUK said:


> If you understand the underlying technology then you would also understand that this is not an issue


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

:thumb:


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## AnthonyUK (Jul 25, 2018)

The Cueball said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> :thumb:


You don't get it do you? 

There is no data to access :lol:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

AnthonyUK said:


> You don't get it do you?
> 
> There is no data to access :lol:












:thumb:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> Your data is never save from companies doing what they want with it.
> 
> How do you know Signal isn't a FBI BlackOps company and this is their plan to get even more information from everyone? :lol:
> 
> :thumb:


You have been spending too much time in the hens hoosie, or we that billy goats, is it you that's allowing Trump to land his helicopter know he is shut out oh Prestwick:lol:

So any new additions to the Cuey Farm?


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Derekh929 said:


> You have been spending too much time in the hens hoosie, or we that billy goats, is it you that's allowing Trump to land his helicopter know he is shut out oh Prestwick:lol:
> 
> So any new additions to the Cuey Farm?


:lol:

He's getting no where near my farm!!

Nothing new buddy, just keeping safe and working away...

You all good??

:thumb:


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## JoeyJoeJo (Jan 3, 2014)

Whatsapp aren't reading your messages, same as Signal, they deliver and delete and they are encrypted. The data they do have comes from your profile and location when you use location services.
Signal also have your profile information including your phone number.

New WA terms allow them to share this profile and other data (where it's being applied), not the content of your messages. Monetising apps is nearly always inevitable, WA have to pay people to develop and support, they have infrastructure to maintain, it's not a charity and since FB bought them, have to get their pound of flesh somewhere.

I've got signal but will continue to use WA because that's what almost of all of the people I know use, it's free and convenient. If signal takes off the way WA did, that may change but not for the moment.

Google are far more insidious imho but I still use them, I also understand why people choose not to.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

JoeyJoeJo said:


> Whatsapp aren't reading your messages, same as Signal, they deliver and delete and they are encrypted. The data they do have comes from your profile and location when you use location services.
> Signal also have your profile information including your phone number.
> 
> New WA terms allow them to share this profile and other data (where it's being applied), not the content of your messages. Monetising apps is nearly always inevitable, WA have to pay people to develop and support, they have infrastructure to maintain, it's not a charity and since FB bought them, have to get their pound of flesh somewhere.
> ...


And that's someone speaking common sense


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> :lol:
> 
> He's getting no where near my farm!!
> 
> ...


Yes all good here , just envious of your little farm
You just have to make the best of it and look ahead instead of back:thumb:


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

I see they've delayed it now until May. Apparently to give users more time to read and understand the changes. 

Reading between the lines I think they're worried about the number of users jumping to signal and telegram. 

There's a clear line in the statement about not sharing info with Facebook too, so obviously thats the main reason they think users aren't happy.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

It was just mass hysteria over nothing, it wasnt going to affect the European zone anyway but people couldnt see that and as others have said, if they really want your information that badly, they will get it.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

muzzer said:


> It was just mass hysteria over nothing, it wasnt going to affect the European zone anyway but people couldnt see that and as others have said, if they really want your information that badly, they will get it.


The issue is, how much social media has an influence on people nowadays. It's like playground gossip on steroids. Signal has just made the news as its crashed because of too many trying to sign up to it. 99.9%of those will not have a clue why they're switching and I reckon 90% or more will still use WhatsApp as well after it:lol::wall:


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

Darlofan said:


> The issue is, how much social media has an influence on people nowadays. It's like playground gossip on steroids. Signal has just made the news as its crashed because of too many trying to sign up to it. 99.9%of those will not have a clue why they're switching and I reckon 90% or more will still use WhatsApp as well after it:lol::wall:


I totally agree especially about the playground gossip on steroids :lol:


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

There were plenty of articles mid December stating that Facebook's terms that apply to the UK would be moving from under the European privacy laws following Brexit. Of course Facebook said this would not be happening, because that's what businesses (and politicians) do. What will happen is they will just make the change when they are ready and say it was due to recent developments. If you expect a company like Facebook not to take advantage of its UK users after Brexit I would argue that's a little naive. What I suggest you will see at some stage in 2021 is any of the Facebook companies you are using in the UK will move from the Whatsapp Ireland terms over to Whatsapp LLC terms. If that wasn't the case, why would they even bother send the new terms agreement message to people that it didn't affect? They're not that stupid.
Oh and don't forget, if you've already clicked on 'I agree' to the new terms in the Whatsapp app, you probably won't even be notified about the new terms when the switch happens.


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## AnthonyUK (Jul 25, 2018)

Yeah there is a lot of misinformation going around 

Fact is, Facebook said when they took Whatsapp over that this wouldn’t happen so now is a good time to get out. 

If you have an iPhone, you can check the App privacy settings in the appstore for what various apps use. Whatsapp you need to scroll to see all what is used. Signal has a single entry - phone number.


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