# grrrrr. Traffic Wardens !!!



## griffin1907 (Mar 4, 2006)

All over... I WIN :-D


Thanks to all on here. Much appreciated.



F me am i annoyed!!!

Back end of December me & Mrs went in to the city. She drove initially, as we saw a blue badge (YES I DO HAVE A VALID BLUE BADGE) space come available we swapped over so I could parallel park the car. Displayed badge, parked up, got my stick out of the boot and locked up.

Couple of hours later returned to the car, parking ticket !! OK, I thought, expiry date a bit faded maybe that's the reason. Phoned them up, it's because my wife was driving and the traffic warden (who is presumably god!!) only saw her driving and not me, WTF ????

So, I officially appealed, came back rejected as "god" only saw wife. Appealed again going in to more detail about shops we visited etc, rejected again, "god" only saw my wife driving.

So, I've been on to the council, a couple of shops, solicitor and CAB.....

Council & shops CCTV been wiped as its over 4 weeks, solicitor would love the case....at £180 an hour for a £70 ticket with potential of not getting costs back. CAB?? Pay it and accept it as it's difficult to prove otherwise !!

FFS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Council have sent with this latest rejection of appeal a form to send to the Parking Notice Tribunal place within 28 days, which I'm going to do, you never know.

My point is, we drove down the road the same way "god" was walking. We know this because as we were walking up the road, Mrs walked past "god" who smirked at her, so how the hell did he see her driving when we have tinted windows???

Also, how on this earth can I prove I was there at the time and that I parked the vehicle?? We have a receipt to say we were in a shop 10 mins after the ticket was issued, which is strange cos I cant walk exactly fast and we brought some stuff, shop was away from the car, so "god" MUST'VE seen me walking next to Mrs as he pounced on our car quite literally as I was locking the vehicle I reckon!!

It's more a rant then anything as I guess ultimately I know what's gonna happen.

Any ideas from you lot out there are more than welcomed.

Cheers,

Steve

I HAVE MY TRIBUNAL DATE THROUGH FOR THIS FRIDAY. Received the info pack from Norwich City Council today, and "god" has written a statement saying that he saw my wife park up and leave the car. Best bit (not for her) is..... she's 45 years of age !! FFS, she ain't happy, she's only 37 and looks nothing like 45.

Bizarrely, seconds before they phoned telling me it's Friday, I'd just hit send on an email to the local paper, just wondering if they thought it was a public interest kind of story.

Will keep you updated as and when I hear / of the outcome from Friday.


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## Dixondmn (Oct 12, 2007)

ok 2 things...

1) Can you prove you paid for what ever you bought in the shop? i.e. your card number on the receipt
2) What if she was picking you up from the shop which you were already in? - surely that must be allowed???

The council sound like they are being dicks about it for no reason.


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## griffin1907 (Mar 4, 2006)

1. no, fraid she paid for on her card :-( (lesson for the future perhaps.)
2. Rules of these days say I have to be in vehicle, can't be used say Mrs parks up and walks to pub to meet me having used blue badge for space.

Dicks? that's subtle to what I'd call her !!! Apparently it's one woman who makes the decision for Norwich City Council.


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## ottostein (Sep 11, 2012)

Tell "GOD" to stick his parking ticket up his super sphincter and blow a tramps pen1s 

I would just find him and beat him for being the all seeing master he seams to be. What a prick. I think people who have blue badges and genuinely need them should be exempt from tickets.


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

Go to the hearing. I know god sees all but these days he needs a camera to prove it


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## voon (Apr 28, 2010)

I assume a "Blue Badge" means rights to parking space for disabled people? It is an interesting question, I though ... can disabled people make use of that badge, when someone else is driving? (unrelated to this case .. general question)


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## Dixondmn (Oct 12, 2007)

voon said:


> I assume a "Blue Badge" means rights to parking space for disabled people? It is an interesting question, I though ... can disabled people make use of that badge, when someone else is driving? (unrelated to this case .. general question)


Not sure, but i know my grandfather has a disabled badge in the car as my grandmother is unable to walk far.

I'm not sure if its blue or orange though... to be honest i dont know the difference.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

voon said:


> can disabled people make use of that badge, when someone else is driving? (unrelated to this case .. general question)


I should hope so. For many years I drove my Mum around (she had never driven in her life). The right to having a blue Badge has nothing to do with whether you drive or not.


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## gordonpuk (Mar 14, 2010)

voon said:


> I assume a "Blue Badge" means rights to parking space for disabled people? It is an interesting question, I though ... can disabled people make use of that badge, when someone else is driving? (unrelated to this case .. general question)


No.
A friend of mine, his wife has a blue badge, they went in to town but couldn't find a disabled parking spot close, so he dropped her off and went to park, warden saw him and said he'd book him for parking there even thought the car had a blue badge but because it belonged to his wife
and she wasn't there.


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## Ricwin (Apr 8, 2011)

They are *******s, the lot of them.
(not a helpful post, but I cant help but voice my disgust)


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Maybe a daft question but how did the traffic warden know that your wife wasn't the qualifying badge holder without speaking to you ?


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

gordonpuk said:


> No.
> A friend of mine, his wife has a blue badge, they went in to town but couldn't find a disabled parking spot close, so he dropped her off and went to park, warden saw him and said he'd book him for parking there even thought the car had a blue badge but because it belonged to his wife
> and she wasn't there.


I can see that I'm going to get trouble sooner or later. I regularly chauffeur the In laws who both have badges and almost without fail I will drop them outside a shop or hospital entrance and then drive off to find a space, it will be a trip to court if necessary.


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

Not trying to be funny or anything, but if you have a blue badge, you must have read all the rules about how it can and can't be used when you applied?

If you are within the rules I would fight it all the way, it's a matter of principle and that justice is served.

If not pay up and move on


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Estoril-5 said:


> Not trying to be funny or anything, but if you have a blue badge, you must have read all the rules about how it can and can't be used when you applied?
> 
> If you are within the rules I would fight it all the way, it's a matter of principle and that justice is served.
> 
> If not pay up and move on


If you can find the complete rules and regs for Blue Badge use then please post them here, I can only find bits and pieces and it seems to vary council to council


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## BoroDave74 (May 16, 2009)

http://www.norwich.gov.uk/TransportAndStreets/Parking/pages/DisabledParking-BlueBadges.aspx

All I can find at the moment. Very much sounds like a case of your word against theirs; isn't pepipoo the best site to help you fighting this sort of thing?


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

What offence have you apparently committed? I know in Scotland there is no way of knowing who the badge is for, that bit is face down on the dash. Maybe England is different. I'd expect them to have given you details of the offence you have commited.


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## CleanCar99 (Dec 30, 2011)

Inocent until proven guilty... You and your wifes word against a traffic wardens word.
Take it to court. It will be dismissed as lack of evidence.
No way you will lose this.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Nanoman said:


> What offence have you apparently committed? I know in Scotland there is no way of knowing who the badge is for, that bit is face down on the dash. Maybe England is different. I'd expect them to have given you details of the offence you have commited.


Same rules in England, however "some" councils have empowered their wardens to challenge and ask to see the badge. The Blue Badge scheme doesn't appear to me to have one National set of rules, instead variations by county.


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## [email protected] (Apr 28, 2011)

Shouldn't matter who was driving as you have a blue badge and you was in the car she had a right to park having you with her as your a blue badge holder i know this as my nan is a blue badge holder and i often have to use hers when she is with me and we have had a few tickets and been told "by law she can use it in my car long as she is with me"


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

S63 said:


> Same rules in England, however "some" councils have empowered their wardens to challenge and ask to see the badge. The Blue Badge scheme doesn't appear to me to have one National set of rules, instead variations by county.


Thanks. There is legislation regarding use of the badge. They need to confirm what offence/breach has been committed to be able to impose a penalty. They may also need a by-law.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

This should answer all our questions

http://www.camden.gov.uk/ccm/cms-se...48FAEBE6BAB58211E2BDA3F55572?asset_id=2990368

On this and other sites I've read it states the owner of the badge must be present in the vehicle either as a driver or passenger when the badge is used.


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

As has been said, let them show their evidence backing up their claims to show that you were doing something illegal. They will soon drop it when they realise you're happy to go to court and they have the word of a traffic warden to back them up.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Most of the traffic wardens up here have cameras to capture the evidence.


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

In which case, if the OP was in the car, they definitely won't want to go to court!


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## griffin1907 (Mar 4, 2006)

to those asking, the serial number apparently can give all the info the warden needs, whether he got this at the time or not I have no idea,

I'm going to see a free solicitor next week. The letter the council have sent me states if I don't pay they will take legal action to get the £105 (it goes up 50% if I don't pay in the next 28 days).

Just to clarify, I was driving at the time the badge was used and vehicle parked. Vehicle was parked nicely within the specified lines for the blue badge space, and categorically no offence was being committed. (Orange badges are the old style, moved to blue badge a few years ago)

S63 - I know what you're saying about dropping badge holders off and then parking up, but this is incorrect these days, so, alas I may see you fighting your case in the same court as me !!!

I forgot pepipoo, will head over there now. Thus far, all attempts at CCTV footage are negative as it's too long ago :-(


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Contact the local paper they love stories like this often bad press makes them sit up and take notice....

council parking enforcement are utter rogues there was a documentary about them a few months back where they love dragging it out in the hope you pay up the independent appeals is a joke as if they find you innocent you have no rights to claim for loss of earning /travel to the appeal hearing against the council.....


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)




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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

andy monty said:


>


The joys of living in London and those nasty little smart cars, glad I'm well out of it now.


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

kybert said:


> Inocent until proven guilty... You and your wifes word against a traffic wardens word.
> Take it to court. It will be dismissed as lack of evidence.
> No way you will lose this.


That should be the way it's supposed to be, but these 'courts' are not courts of 'law' as I understand, they are administrative courts. It's balance of probabilities not beyond reasonable doubt and hearsay evidence is accepted iirc.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

kh904 said:


> That should be the way it's supposed to be, but these 'courts' are not courts of 'law' as I understand, they are administrative courts. It's balance of probabilities not beyond reasonable doubt and hearsay evidence is accepted iirc.


However, the misuse of a Blue Badge is a criminal offence commanding a maximum fine of £1000.


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## PaulaJayne (Feb 17, 2012)

Head to www.pepipoo.com

Lots of experts on there to sort this lot out.


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## griffin1907 (Mar 4, 2006)

UPDATED at end of my first post on page one


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Get onto pepipoo website ASAP, they're great and will give you rock solid advice!


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## MPS101 (May 6, 2011)

Is hard to go into enough detail on here and I would love to see that statement. Firstly when did the warden write the statement, what notes did the warden make at the time( these must be signed and dated at the time) do these match the statement, what made your car stand out on the drive in to the warden that they followed you(which part of RIPA do they claim allows them to breach your human rights by placing you under surveillance, if only for a short period.
Have they got the make, model and colour of your car correct. Is there a second warden backing up the story, what was the date and time of the last ticket issued prior to yours along with location. Could that allow the warden to be in the location they claim to be.
If they have badly got your wife's age wrong then take her along as if they got that badly wrong what does that say for their recall skills. 
Also which bit of council policy allows the wardens to carry out surveillance on members of the public to enforce parking offences.

Hope some of the above helps


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## jcf1966 (Jul 21, 2012)

I understand it does or matter who is driving but the badge holder must be in the car when it is parked and then must get out of the car, hence they need the car to park illegally so they can get out and do what they need to.

If you drop the badge holder off at the shop, let say, and then Go and park the car you must not use the badge unless the badge holder will be coming back to the car with the driver and need the badge so they can get in the car. A wheel chair user etc.

You must not as a none badge holder use the badge for your own use.
Etc as a driver you pull up on double yellow lines and get out of the car to pop into the shop for milk etc and the badge holder stays sat in the car. This would be a miss use of the badge.

The big problem is here is they have given so many of these badges out for no good reason that traffic wardens are after the people who miss use them.

Hope you get this sorted out very soon.


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## Lloyd71 (Aug 21, 2008)

Blimey, I didn't realise the badge holder had to be in the car when it was being parked up. I often park my girlfriend's car up and use the blue badge to go pick her up from somewhere. I understand that they need to stop people from abusing them but forcing people to park in a normal spot (often miles away from the entrance to the shop etc.) to pick someone up is taking the ****. If they're severely disabled this can make it impossible to get them in to the car in a normal space. Perfect example; my girlfriend's mum is completely paralysed and loading her in would be impossible were it not for disabled bays. So if her husband drops her off (with her friend to push the wheelchair) he can't use the disabled badge to pick her up again, despite her being unable to move?

**** right off.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

First off i would have paid the fine and then fought it so that you wont get a bigger bill.

Traffic wardens are a pain but i guess they know the law more than anyone with it been their job..oh no wait they probably don't lol

I see the bloke down the road from my folks miss use the badge all the time. His mrs is disabled but i always see him on his own park up in disabled spots with only him in the car. He also parks on the school zig zag markings which badge or no badge is illegal for sure.

I guess traffic wombles have to get tough due to the fact that so many people either don't need them or abuse them although in your case your in the right.

Good luck.


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## lisaclio (Sep 6, 2008)

just go to the hearing. as an ex traffic warden we wasnt allowed to just give someone a ticket for not looking like a blue badge holder! the only way we was allowed to issue a valid pcn to a blue badge holder was when they had parked in a disabled bay for longer than 3 hours, parked in a goods vehicle loading only bay or if we had been told from high up to issue a pcn to a certain vehicle that had been tracked by them for misusing a blue badge. all traffic wardens carry a note pad that they have to write everything in. the traffic warden in question would of written in his or hers notepad that he was issuing the ticket for a reason.Can you tell me what the ticket was issued for? it should say what contravention it was.


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## King Eric (Feb 27, 2006)

The problem with traffic wardens? They really are those who wanted to be lawmen but couldn't make the grade. So the combination of a failed ambition and the power to hit you in the pocket really does not make a great mix.

One shouted 'F**k you!' at me the other week (over a parking dispute as I started to quote a little law to him) The resulting conversation for those who know me would of made me millions on YouTube. 

By the way if anyone is a traffic warden I mean no offence.

However don't ever attempt to talk to me. Ever.


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## griffin1907 (Mar 4, 2006)

Lisaclio - its contravention code 40

If I were in the wrong I'd hold my hand up, fair cop. I genuinely have never misused the badge, badge is only ever in a car I'm in, I even bring it in the house every night.

What bugs me is, 'if'and I know its if it goes against me, what's the point of having a blue badge. One person says I wasn't there and that's it, public lose.

I hope to get a decision tomorrow, not sure how it works. Worried is the wrong word, but I am p'eed off seriously about it.

Fingers crossed and as soon as I know, I'll post here.

I would like to post a MASSIVE thanks to you all for your support. Cheers to everyone, really appreciate it.

Steve


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## griffin1907 (Mar 4, 2006)

Just for reference, apparently if the serial number contains an 'x' it is issued to a male. If it's 'y' it's issued to a female.


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## griffin1907 (Mar 4, 2006)

Well, its Friday, I'm sitting waiting for my hearing now, am due in at 1230 but they're running late. How very ride !! 


Updated on 1st page.

I WIN :-D


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

congradulations what did they say?


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## herbiedacious (Sep 27, 2010)

Yaaay! I hope the deity got his ass kicked.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## MPS101 (May 6, 2011)

Well done, glad it all worked out.


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## voon (Apr 28, 2010)

All that nuisance because of an infuriating copster ... I'm not against them, glad they exist usually (just not on empty mountain roads *g*), they have a tough job and have to deal with a lot of **** and idiots .... but sometimes .... argh.

Glad it turned out well.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Any info on why you won?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## griffin1907 (Mar 4, 2006)

The independant adjudicator was satisfied that me & Mrs had given clear enough evidence to state we were both there.

I think the amount of research I done, and introducing Mrs immediately as 37 not 45 as per wardens observations helped break the ice 

It was very informal and friendly and ultimately it ended how it should. Having said that, the councils rep was none too chuffed and didn't have much to say.

To all blue badge holders & friends, I've learnt quite a lot over these few months and would recommend anyone to re-read the rules there's a few 'wtf' & 'huh, what's the point' type things in them.

Even after all this, traffic wardens do have their place & do a good job, HOWEVER, the processes of appeal and the way the warden is protected and his word taken as gospel leaves a lot to be desired.


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