# My BH Autofoam is green!



## slapshot (Jul 29, 2007)

I just opened a freshly delivered 5 litre bottle of Bilt Hamber Autofoam courtesy of 'Elite Car Care' and it's dark green. My previous batch was almost clear in colour.

I wouldn't mind but the foaming properties of this new stuff through a foam lance is terrible. In fact you wouldn't really call it foam as it's disappeared after 60 seconds and doesn't even touch the dirt on the car.

Have Bilt Hamber changed the formulation?


----------



## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Mine is green and works fine for me.I did have one that was clean but Ben told me it was the same as the green one and that works fine too.

(Waits for BH AF haters to arrive)


----------



## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

dont know about changing it got mine maybe 12 months ago and that is green. It foams ok but it isn't crazy shaving foam type. Generally 1/1 it with tfr to get a good clean


----------



## ads2k (Jul 12, 2006)

Mine's always been green.

Maybe you've got mixed up with HD Surfex ?? that's clear in colour.


----------



## LiveWire88 (Sep 5, 2009)

Green here also


----------



## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

I was given some to try and it was green 

I was given it by that man above :thumb:


----------



## slapshot (Jul 29, 2007)

Well it's a relief to hear it's supposed to be green. I was wondering if the container had been filled with Swarfega by accident!

It would be good to hear from the Bilt Hamber guys about this green formulation. I was quick to criticise the clear Autofoam until I realised that foaming wasn't as important as cleaning/lifting action. But this green stuff doesn't appear to be as good.


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

slapshot said:


> I just opened a freshly delivered 5 litre bottle of Bilt Hamber Autofoam courtesy of 'Clean your Car' and it's dark green. My previous batch was almost clear in colour.
> 
> I wouldn't mind but the foaming properties of this new stuff through a foam lance is terrible. In fact you wouldn't really call it foam as it's disappeared after 60 seconds and doesn't even touch the dirt on the car.
> 
> Have Bilt Hamber changed the formulation?


Mines green like yours. Like yours it dosen't touch the dirt on the car.



Ross said:


> (Waits for BH AF haters to arrive)


Do you have a problem with honesty?


----------



## slapshot (Jul 29, 2007)

ads2k said:


> Mine's always been green.
> 
> Maybe you've got mixed up with HD Surfex ?? that's clear in colour.


Nah ... I have 5 litres of Surfex HD too so I know the difference.

I was going to combine what's left of my clear Autofoam with this new batch to eliminate the old container but I'm not so sure now.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.


----------



## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Ross said:


> Mine is green and works fine for me.I did have one that was clean but Ben told me it was the same as the green one and that works fine too.
> 
> (*Waits for BH AF haters to arrive*)


it's not that folk hate it Ross, we have seen vids of lots of products in action, many find the product does not meet the claims, however for those that get it to work, they (yourself included) could post some for the error users to learn the technique for success :thumb:
Not everyone can be using the incorrect dilution ratio, saying that if folk are following up with a bucket wash then every other wash should be just as ample


----------



## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Mine has always been green too, love it personally.


----------



## magnumsport (Aug 11, 2008)

Green here too. Doesn't foam too well, but cleaning power above average


----------



## pugoman (Oct 27, 2005)

Mines green and it cleans pretty well.


----------



## wedgie (Apr 5, 2008)

Mine is green and it cleans really well


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

It's been green for quite some time now - almost from the outset, iirc.
The colour is only a colorant to aid in distinguishing it from the water or other colourless liquids - not that the scent doesn't do that as well.


----------



## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)




----------



## ads2k (Jul 12, 2006)

ianFRST said:


>


So it's made for you especially to match the car is it Ian :lol:


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Mines green and cleans as well as 60 a day 90 year old asthmatic suffering from alzheimers. Leaves the same marks on the body work as you'd expect to find in their underware.


----------



## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

Blazebro said:


> Mines green and cleans as well as 60 a day 90 year old asthmatic suffering from alzheimers. Leaves the same marks on the body work as you'd expect to find in their underware.


take it you dont like it then:lol:


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

chrisc said:


> take it you dont like it then:lol:


Obviously it's not a case of not liking it, more a case of not understanding it/not using it correctly/not appreciating it's complexisities/not having a PW that's powerfull enough/weather too hot or cold/wind blowing the wrong way etc etc etc


----------



## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

take it you still like your actimouse then.


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

chrisc said:


> take it you still like your actimouse then.


In short, it *****slaps AF into oblivion.


----------



## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

yet to try it but going to get some soon


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

chrisc said:


> yet to try it but going to get some soon


Good luck


----------



## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

Blazebro said:


> Good luck


would they be a huge differance to say active xl


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

chrisc said:


> would they be a huge differance to say active xl


Bit like saying Brute is similar to Hugo Boss.


----------



## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Are you sure you got it from Clean Your Car?


----------



## slapshot (Jul 29, 2007)

RussZS said:


> Are you sure you got it from Clean Your Car?


Oops ... you're right. It was Elite Car Care that supplied the Autofoam. I should have checked my records more carefuly before posting. I'll correct my original post.

Sorry to the guys at CYC. I wasn't laying blame, just trying ot understand if there had been a formulation change in the product.


----------



## Maggi200 (Aug 21, 2009)

I was gonna say I didn't think cyc did bilt hamber products?  maybe that's where you've gone wrong.

And I'm sure I saw this thread not long ago, hope ross has received his special education since? I personally love the stuff too, find it very effective


----------



## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

maggi112 said:


> I was gonna say I didn't think cyc did bilt hamber products?  maybe that's where you've gone wrong.
> 
> And I'm sure I saw this thread not long ago, *hope ross has received his special education since*? I personally love the stuff too, find it very effective


:lol:


----------



## Maggi200 (Aug 21, 2009)

-Kev- said:


> :lol:


Not how I worded it orginally, but I quite like not being banned  I was quite angry at that last thread and had to walk away from the pc lol


----------



## Dean123 (Jan 26, 2009)

I was going to make my own thread regarding this stuff, but i saw this one, so I'll jump on board.


I have just bought a foam lance, so i am a first time user

bought myself a foam lance from elite, and going from what i read, a lot of people like the Bilt Hamber foam, so i got that aswell

Used it on my BMW the first time, and first impression wasnt good
I messed around with the settings on the lance, but couldnt get the result i was looking for

The foam didn't seem to want to stick to the car, it wanted to drain off straight away, a minute at best I'd say.Didn't remove much muck, and very disappointed.
I put it down to inexperience maybe, or the fact it was cold?
so gave it the benefit of the doubt.

Anyway, washed the missus car yesterday, using the same stuff, and got the same result, foam was very weak, even though i put 20% in the bottle, and had the lance on all settings
Drained off very quickly, and didn't remove much dirt.


Next i tried the Elite foam i got free with the lance and boy what a difference!!!
Foamed up massively compared to the Bilt hamber stuff, but i was still sceptical, as its how it cleans right?
It stayed firm on the car, that was the first difference and i left it for 5 mins
Rinsed it down ,and wow, the difference was there for all to see.
The muck was all but gone
I cant believe the difference in product to be honest, and i dont think i will be using the Bilt hamber stuff again.

The elite foam foamed up very well, stayed firm, and when rinsed, removed about 90-95% of the muck, i was in 2 minds whether to wash the car to be honest, it cleaned it up that much.

Oh btw, mines green also

I am going to be emailing Bilt hamber with my feedback, i wish i could get my money back???


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Dean, a) you can get a refund - BH offer that whomever you buy it from, and b) before you do, have you actually spent any time at all getting the recommended 4% dilution (on the car, not in the lance bottle!)?


----------



## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

If BH could make foam it up a bit more that would be ace?? :thumb: Waits for BH ?


----------



## Dean123 (Jan 26, 2009)

PJS said:


> Dean, a) you can get a refund - BH offer that whomever you buy it from, and b) before you do, have you actually spent any time at all getting the recommended 4% dilution (*on the car, not in the lance bottle!*)?


not sure what you mean, like i said, first time user of the lance bottle 
Do you mean 4% foam solution/96% water? if so, i'd say thats impossible to judge? (I dont mean putting 4% neat BH in the bottle)

There is no ratio measure on the bottle instructions which i find odd
i put about 1:10 in the lance bottle and adjusted the settings on the top of the nozzle, but the results were about the same
I take it the +/- adjusts the amount of foam liquid solution with the water flow coming through the pressure washer.


----------



## Dean123 (Jan 26, 2009)

Blazebro said:


> In short, it *****slaps AF into oblivion.


can it be bought on the internet? - the actimouse

i havent written off the bilthamber stuff yet, as i would like to give it a fighting chance, but its not looking good
i have got plenty of the elite car care stuff left,and that worked well, but i am a stickler for buying new stuff and cant resit trying different products, and might try the actimoussse in the future


----------



## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I really dont know why lots of you dont like BH AF?I find it works great.


----------



## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Ross said:


> I really dont know why lots of you dont like BH AF?I find it works great.


You have already said that in the thread, but offer little to assist those that are not finding it perform as they expected. It could be simply that the expectations of the users were raised to high , which would then lead to dissapointment. 
After all other products are on the market and folk are getting different results and 'success' from using them.


----------



## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Avanti said:


> You have already said that in the thread, but offer little to assist those that are not finding it perform as they expected. It could be simply that the expectations of the users were raised to high , which would then lead to dissapointment.
> After all other products are on the market and folk are getting different results and 'success' from using them.


Yes I agree with you fully,I have had disappointments with a few products that were "Hyped" up on here namely GC Glossworkz mainly because it was meant to be a very good shampoo but I don't think so at all.It lacks lubricity and cleaning power but it smells good:lol:Anybody want it?


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Dean123 said:


> can it be bought on the internet? - the actimouse
> 
> i havent written off the bilthamber stuff yet, as i would like to give it a fighting chance, but its not looking good
> i have got plenty of the elite car care stuff left,and that worked well, but i am a stickler for buying new stuff and cant resit trying different products, and might try the actimoussse in the future


Try Ebay. I didn't know that it can be had in 5ltr sizes, but as alot of members bought 5ltr sizes from the recent meet, I was proved wrong.

If not give your local rep a call. Because I don't buy that much I normally meet mine on his rounds. Normally a pub car park, so not at all dodgy


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Ross said:


> It lacks lubricity and cleaning power but it smells good


That's quite funny, as that's what people say about btbm.


----------



## TomH01 (Apr 10, 2009)

I am in a similar position to Dean as it's the first time that I have used snow foam, I bought the Elite lance and also got some Bilt Hamber AF and the other day decided to give it a try. The car hadn't been washed for nearly 4 months so was quite dirty, I mixed 200ml of BH and 800ml of warm water and applied the foam on to the car dry, although the foam wasn't as thick as some images that I have seen posted, it wasn't bad at all and I let it dwell for about 8 minutes and then pressure washed it off, the results were very impressive indeed and I would say that it removed about 95% of the dirt and grime. The last time the car was cleaned I applied two coats of Collinite 915, whether that helped at all I don't know. Mines green also.


----------



## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

Blazebro said:


> That's quite funny, as that's what people say about btbm.


btbm imo does not have that good of a cleaning power for the price leaves car nice but not up to it for mucky cars


----------



## Dean123 (Jan 26, 2009)

TomH01 said:


> I am in a similar position to Dean as it's the first time that I have used snow foam, I bought the Elite lance and also got some Bilt Hamber AF and the other day decided to give it a try. The car hadn't been washed for nearly 4 months so was quite dirty, I mixed 200ml of BH and 800ml of warm water and applied the foam on to the car dry, although the foam wasn't as thick as some images that I have seen posted, it wasn't bad at all and I let it dwell for about 8 minutes and then pressure washed it off, the results were very impressive indeed and I would say that it removed about 95% of the dirt and grime. The last time the car was cleaned I applied two coats of Collinite 915, whether that helped at all I don't know. Mines green also.


thats what i couldnt do....leave it on for 8 minutes, as it just dripped out  ???


----------



## catch the pigeo (May 17, 2008)

Dean123 this guide tells you how to get the 4%
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=71201&highlight=snow+foam


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

chrisc said:


> btbm imo does not have that good of a cleaning power for the price leaves car nice but not up to it for mucky cars


There you have it then 

I've not tried Glossworkz on a really dirty car, my go to choice there is CG CW&G.

However now I've got the use of Actimousse down to a tee, I never really have that much of a dirty car to wash anyway. To that effect I will be ordering 5ltrs of Glossworkz soon.

I have to say I am disappointed in the review of Actimousse. I think the reviewer should have consulted a few people before applying his trade. I would never use that small amount on a dirty car. On average I'm diluting at 50%. The op would've attained much better results if he had. It appears to me that DW are supporting a reviewer who's method is dubious at best.


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Dean123 said:


> thats what i couldnt do....leave it on for 8 minutes, as it just dripped out  ???


Dean, people who say they can leave a foam on a car for 8 minutes, live on a planet with a very low force of gravity, such as the moon.


----------



## catch the pigeo (May 17, 2008)

Blazebro said:


> There you have it then
> 
> I've not tried Glossworkz on a really dirty car, my go to choice there is CG CW&G.
> 
> ...


Is the 50% dilution what autosmart recommends ?


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

catch the pigeo said:


> Is the 50% dilution what autosmart recommends ?


No, I believe it's not supposed to be diluted. The product is primarilly designed to be used on lorries and plant, but it can be diluted which has the obvious effects of reducing it's effectiveness.

I'm also trying an aggressive Espuma caustic TFR. I've only used it once with so-so effect, and followed it up with Actimousse. However I'm not reading that much into it because I used the old 1" should be enough method.

I'll try it again and double the amount. In theory it should knock spots off Actimousse, but it's getting the procedure right.


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

chillly said:


> If BH could make foam it up a bit more that would be ace?? :thumb: Waits for BH ?


BH can use high foam building ingredients, but as foam is aerated solution, that does very little apart from look pretty, then what's the point?
You need a double cream type consistency, and if you're not already, put the bloody lance 3-6" from the surface when rinsing off, especially if you've a low flow rate/pressure PW.
Standing 4' away won't do diddly squat.


----------



## TomH01 (Apr 10, 2009)

Blazebro said:


> Dean, people who say they can leave a foam on a car for 8 minutes, live on a planet with a very low force of gravity, such as the moon.


I didn't say that the foam stayed on the car for 8 minutes, I'm saying that I left it to dwell for 8 minutes, I admit that there wasn't a lot of foam left on the car but it was still doing it's job, which was loosening the dirt.


----------



## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

Blazebro said:


> No, I believe it's not supposed to be diluted. The product is primarilly designed to be used on lorries and plant, but it can be diluted which has the obvious effects of reducing it's effectiveness.
> 
> I'm also trying an aggressive Espuma caustic TFR. I've only used it once with so-so effect, and followed it up with Actimousse. However I'm not reading that much into it because I used the old 1" should be enough method.
> 
> I'll try it again and double the amount. In theory it should knock spots off Actimousse, but it's getting the procedure right.


if thats the case that it should not be diluted the actimousse then surely it is a chemical with a very high water content in the mix already.but i cant judge on it untill i use some which should not be too long away.:thumb:


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Dean123 said:


> thats what i couldnt do....leave it on for 8 minutes, as it just dripped out  ???


If you follow the link above, that explains how to accurately get the dilution right - there's an approximation method I've explained a number of times which is handy for those without access to a 25L container.
Basically, measure 1L of water into the lance container, activate the PW for 30 secs, then measure what's left.
The amount used, multiply by 2 (or run it for a full minute, so no need to multiply anything), and add to the PW's spec'd flow rate.
4% (divide by 100, multiple by 4) of the total water expected to be used in 1 minute (you may need to divide the specs by 60, if it's per hour), equals how much neat Auto-foam is needed.

Job done, see how that goes. Time is irrelevant, but given as 5-8 mins. If you rinse when there's a good few patches of paintwork showing, not when there's a wee bit of foam still left on the paintwork, then you'll be doing it at the right time.
Close rinsing will drive the dirt it's encapsulated, off. I use the Makita HW131, with 130 bar (dial shows 150) and 8 odd L/min, at 3" on medium fan - still to remove any paint in over a years worth of 'trying'.
This is probably the bit most users don't appreciate, and end up standing off the paintwork too much, so the pressurised water is less effective.


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

chrisc said:


> if thats the case that it should not be diluted the actimousse then surely it is a chemical with a very high water content in the mix already.but i cant judge on it untill i use some which should not be too long away.:thumb:


Not really as a foam lance will dilute anyway (about 15% so I'm told). Sorry, but I thought you'd already used it  Someone commented, when I reviewed it, that it looked too watery so I then started to increase the dilutions to get the 'moussy' look to the foam. I've settled on 500ml/1ltr as on dirty cars it seems to work.

I haven't gone 100% as, as much as I don't believe the it'll strp wax/cause damage etc etc, I don't particularly want to find out. The 50% dilution seems to be a good compromise to me.


----------



## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

Blazebro said:


> Not really as a foam lance will dilute anyway (about 15% so I'm told). Sorry, but I thought you'd already used it  Someone commented, when I reviewed it, that it looked too watery so I then started to increase the dilutions to get the 'moussy' look to the foam. I've settled on 500ml/1ltr as on dirty cars it seems to work.
> 
> I haven't gone 100% as, as much as I don't believe the it'll strp wax/cause damage etc etc, I don't particularly want to find out. The 50% dilution seems to be a good compromise to me.


no active xl i use mate.getting some acctimouse wednesday hopefully so it best be good now blazebro.


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

chrisc said:


> no active xl i use mate.getting some acctimouse wednesday hopefully so it best be good now blazebro.


I wouldn't have thought Actimousse is going to be as effective as Active XL as it's a Truckwash?

I'd like to give HD Foam ago personally.


----------



## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

Blazebro said:


> Dean, people who say they can leave a foam on a car for 8 minutes, live on a planet with a very low force of gravity, such as the moon.


I can leave foam on for over 8 minutes and last time I checked I don't live on the moon. 

I think it depends on a number of factors how long a foam will stay on paintwork. Factors include; current protection levels, levels of dirt on the car, product used, dilution of product, pressure washer used etc.

So enough of the false information please. :thumb:

Also, not too sure where the BTBM bashing came from. A totally different product in my eyes. I'm guessing you have attacked the product because Ross has entered the thread supporting BH Autofoam. All reads very petty to me...


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

amiller said:


> I can leave foam on for over 8 minutes and last time I checked I don't live on the moon.
> 
> I think it depends on a number of factors how long a foam will stay on paintwork. Factors include; current protection levels, levels of dirt on the car, product used, dilution of product, pressure washer used etc.
> 
> ...


Really, last time I tried leaving a foam on a car for anything near 5 minutes, it started to dry, there also wasn't alot left of it, or are ou saying that gravity has no effect on foam falling to the floor?

Naturally you'd have timed your 8 minutes with a stop watch and have video'd it for proof.

I don't believe I have 'bashed' BTBM, I drew a comparrison between the 2 shampoos, nothing more.


----------



## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

I've used most foams over the years, BH is the one that I actually find the most effective whilst not stripping away the protection.
Not had any problems in it creating a decent foam from a small amount of product, granted it generally goes translucent after a couple of minutes on the vertical panels, but the little bubbles are still breaking down the soiling.


----------



## Dean123 (Jan 26, 2009)

Jesus, but you need a degree to work out the math,lmao
kidding aside
I thought it would be a simple case of putting x amount of solution in the bottle and the rest water without working out the flow rate etc
surely it shouldn't be this complicated?

I will give the math a go


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Dean123 said:


> Jesus, but you need a degree to work out the math,lmao
> kidding aside
> I thought it would be a simple case of putting x amount of solution in the bottle and the rest water without working out the flow rate etc
> surely it shouldn't be this complicated?
> ...


Maybe that's that's where the problem in it lies. Maybe it's not a user friendly product and for it to be effective the dilution needs to be spot on.

The only other conclusion I can come to is, it dosen't cope with hard water very well.


----------



## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

amiller;2043285[B said:


> ]I can leave foam on for over 8 minutes and last time I checked I don't live on the moon.
> 
> I think it depends on a number of factors how long a foam will stay on paintwork. Factors include; current protection levels, levels of dirt on the car, product used, dilution of product, pressure washer used etc.
> 
> ...


You forgot that the weather conditions too will have a gross effect, I do not know of 1 car foam product that will dwell without drying off on side panels for as long as 8 mins, it's not as if it is hard to demonstrate 8 mins dwell time 
How does one measure lubricty in a shampoo? Is that the main factor of why to purchase? That is not a bash at any product more a question of what is the major reason to choose a product.


----------



## TomH01 (Apr 10, 2009)

Avanti said:


> You forgot that the weather conditions too will have a gross effect, I do not know of 1 car foam product that will dwell without drying off on side panels for as long as 8 mins, it's not as if it is hard to demonstrate 8 mins dwell time
> How does one measure lubricty in a shampoo? Is that the main factor of why to purchase? That is not a bash at any product more a question of what is the major reason to choose a product.


That's a point, I used it on a dull overcast day, if it had been sunny it probably would have been a different story and dried off too quick.


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Blazebro said:


> Maybe that's that's where the problem in it lies. Maybe it's not a user friendly product and for it to be effective the dilution needs to be spot on.
> 
> The only other conclusion I can come to is, it dosen't cope with hard water very well.


The dilution is easily attainable, as my last post demonstrated - sounds convoluted, but in reality, it's a 2-3 minute job, and is a one-time-only 'hassle'.
4% is best for when the paintwork is at its worst, but is still effective dependent on soiling level at 1 or 2%. Any higher than 4-5% doesn't offer any more improvement - BH can explain why that's the case with the ingredients chosen.

One thing to bear in mind through all these Auto-foam 'debates' is that at no point in its history, has it ever been called a TFR - that's traffic film remover, the fine particulate layer of sticky grime that needs something more aggressive to eradicate.
What Auto-foam is, is an LSP-safe foaming pre-wash solution - something better than shampoo or plain water for that task.

As for hard water area users - like Auto-wash, it has chelating agents to counteract the mineral content in the water, but it might be worth experimenting by upping the PIR value to 6% and see if that makes any difference.


----------



## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

PJS said:


> The dilution is easily attainable, as my last post demonstrated - sounds convoluted, but in reality, it's a 2-3 minute job, and is a one-time-only 'hassle'.
> 4% is best for when the paintwork is at its worst, but is still effective dependent on soiling level at 1 or 2%. Any higher than 4-5% doesn't offer any more improvement - BH can explain why that's the case with the ingredients chosen.
> 
> *One thing to bear in mind through all these Auto-foam 'debates' is that at no point in its history, has it ever been called a TFR - that's traffic film remover, the fine particulate layer of sticky grime that needs something more aggressive to eradicate*.
> ...


Yes indeed, and in fairness the blurb on the site does not suggest this product to clean without touching, but then there are other products that will do the same, perhaps it is the response to those that ask about power wash shampoo's that mis read the reply and then are lead to dissapointment.
Because now the weather seems to be getting milder and a power wash is quicker than the time it takes to set up the machine and stuff, surely many of these power wash products should be removing a week's worth of traffic soiling?


----------



## Guest (Mar 7, 2010)

ive used many foams over the years including BH imo its pants,some say iam biased as my mate own his own A/S franchise but if carlsberg made snow foam then actimoose + all day long :lol:


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

PJS said:


> The dilution is easily attainable, as my last post demonstrated - sounds convoluted, but in reality, it's a 2-3 minute job, and is a one-time-only 'hassle'.
> 4% is best for when the paintwork is at its worst, but is still effective dependent on soiling level at 1 or 2%. Any higher than 4-5% doesn't offer any more improvement - BH can explain why that's the case with the ingredients chosen.
> 
> One thing to bear in mind through all these Auto-foam 'debates' is that at no point in its history, has it ever been called a TFR - that's traffic film remover, the fine particulate layer of sticky grime that needs something more aggressive to eradicate.
> ...


It might be easy to ascirtain the 4-5%, but in truth I simply can't be bothered. It also comes down to being severely dyslexic so it does take me some effort to calculate such things. Which is why a truly great product, to me, is one where you can bung it in and off you go.

It might be worth noting that on the back of a Persil Small and Mighty bottle, it suggests using an additional half a cup in hard water areas. So even when your trying to make this as precise as it can, there is still guessing work to be done. If we follow that guideline (for instance) we do the math then add a further 50%.


----------



## slapshot (Jul 29, 2007)

snip ...



Gleammachine said:


> Not had any problems in it creating a decent foam from a small amount of product, granted it generally goes translucent after a couple of minutes on the vertical panels, but the little bubbles are still breaking down the soiling.


Now that's interesting. When I came to power wash the remaining Autofoam off the car I too noticed the fizzing bubbles your refer to. Perhaps the BH Autofoam, although invisible at this stage, was still doing its work?

However there is clearly a difference in foaming/dwell-time between the green Autofoam I just bought and the 1 year old clear stuff I still have left in the garage. The older foam adhears better and cleans better without leaving dirt streaks on the paint.

I'll give the green stuff another go next weekend but suspect I'll offer it free to anyone who wants to pick it up if it doesn't pass muster.

Thanks for all the comments on the subject! Would be nice to hear from "BiltHamber Kid" on the subject. Does he still lurk here?


----------



## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

slapshot said:


> snip ...
> 
> Now that's interesting. When I came to power wash the remaining Autofoam off the car I too noticed the fizzing bubbles your refer to. Perhaps the BH Autofoam, although invisible at this stage, was still doing its work?
> 
> ...


Pete does lurk here , have not seen him about for a while, the one I used was green and was purchased to me previously owned, I have 2 offers of more and will take one up and post vids of it in use, however I won't be going to great lengths of attaining exactly 4% (it will be more just to make sure) as that IMO does not lend itself to the customer experience of the product but that aside, I do recall BH saying they offer a customer satisfaction gaurantee :thumb:


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

The B H guarantee does only extend to products bought directly from them. Mine wasn't, hence why it's one of your freebies.

Just checked their website, no mention of it now. Also checked the 'Autofoam How to use', which is........Coming Soon


----------



## Puntoboy (Jun 30, 2007)

My autofoam is green also and works very very well.


----------



## Bilt-Hamber Lab (Apr 11, 2008)

slapshot said:


> snip ...
> 
> Now that's interesting. When I came to power wash the remaining Autofoam off the car I too noticed the fizzing bubbles your refer to. Perhaps the BH Autofoam, although invisible at this stage, was still doing its work?
> 
> ...


Can you email us with the batch numbers from the two bottles, you should see what looks like a shop price tag with two four digit numbers on it, we can check the production samples then.

Thanks,

John


----------



## Bilt-Hamber Lab (Apr 11, 2008)

Blazebro said:


> The B H guarantee does only extend to products bought directly from them. Mine wasn't, hence why it's one of your freebies.


With respect
I really do not know where you get your information from but i do know that it is not from us.

john


----------



## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Bilt-Hamber Lab said:


> With respect
> I really do not know where you get your information from but i do know that it is not from us.
> 
> john


I dare say it wasn't as it's not on your site, which if we're being honest, needs some rather intense updating.


----------



## Dean123 (Jan 26, 2009)

Just thoughti'd update this thread

just worked out the math, hope i got this correct?

Used 250ml of water in 1 min
karcher 2.36 washer with flow rate of 360l per hour = 6ltrs per min

is 6.25 ltrs
4% of that is 250ml
so back to where i started

put 250ml mix with 750ml water
results = foams up like feck, but thats an awful lot of foam per wash?

that gives me just 20 washes?


----------



## HalfordsShopper (Jul 8, 2008)

with those sums i think u need to use it neat mate if you're aiming for 4%.

With a neat mixture in your lance, you will use 250M of stuff from the lance and 6Lts of water. As you say thats 4% - so job done, the pressure washer is diluting it for you.

If you dilute it with water to 25% then you'll only get a 1% Pannel Impact Ratio.

You can foam a whole car with 500Ml though - so you'll still get 10 washes per 5L bottle.


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Dean, at this time of year, you can drop the PIR to 2%, as there should be less dirt to contend with.


----------



## Guest (Jun 11, 2010)

Total flow rate is 6250ml/min. For a 4% PIR you need 6250ml*0.04 = 250ml, i.e. 250ml of AF and 6000ml water per minute.

Pickup rate of lance already measured at 250ml/min. Hence, to maintain a 4% PIR, the AF should be placed in the bottle undiluted. For a 2% PIR, it needs diluting 1:1.

However, I will add that you will not be using a full bottle per wash. IIRC, when I used to foam I would only use 500ml from my lance bottle per car. My p/w flow rate was 8000L/min and my lance dilution rate set to approx 10:1 (or approx 700ml/min pickup rate). Thus, it would take me about 40secs to foam an entire car. 
Based on this, the OP should get about 6-12 washes per lance bottle (depending upon PIR) or 30-60 washes per 5L of AF.


----------



## HalfordsShopper (Jul 8, 2008)

yop yop thats right Phisp! :thumb:

It doesn make AF seem very expensive though doesn't it. I bought a huge 25L drum of the stuff so i don't have to worry about how much i'm using. Should last me a couple of years.


----------



## Dean123 (Jan 26, 2009)

Right, another update as i thought the concentration was a bit excessive
I just measured out 1 minutes worth of pressure washing, filled a bucket with a total of 3.5 ltrs (3500ml) so my flow rate spec'd karcher is way out
I recommend anyone else doing this,measure the exact flow rate,and not rely on what the specs are

so.....
flow rate per minute, is 3500ml per minute
add this to the amount of solution used in the foam lance in a minute (250ml)
= 3750 ml
4% of this equals 150ml

(3750/100*4)=150


going to give that a try,see what happens


btw, will using too much snow foam strip wax?


----------



## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

What size of foam bottle are you using?


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Dean, is your machine only putting out effectively half its spec'd flow rate?

Can you time measure just the hose into the bucket - just to see your mains flow rate.

You are opening the tap fully, aren't you?

Again, just to make sure - this was the high pressure setting you measured, not the low pressure one?

How long have you had this machine for?

Is the foam lance adjuster fully open, or do you have it set at a mid-point?


----------



## Dean123 (Jan 26, 2009)

the bottle is 1 ltr
my mains pressure is low to begin with, but i have worked out the flow rate of the machine of what it actually is, not what spec it is, so not sure what difference measuring the mains will make bud? I think i got my math correct?

its only a budget machine,i got it free with tesco car insurance, but its not had much use
the pressure is quite good tbh
anyhow, i just used it on the missus car, the foam content was ok

I have come to a conclusion though

the bilt hamber stuff is

*RUBBISH !!!!*

It is foaming ok, but as for cleaning properties, it doesnt remove half the grime than the elite car care stuff i got free with the foam lance.
Dont think i will be using it again
which means i am on the look out for something better
any thoughts?,lol


----------



## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I think the key to a clean car when using a lance and PW is not down to the foam but your technique with the PW.I go slowly long ways across the panels and overlap each time leaving a pretty clean car with any foam.


----------



## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Dean have you got a Hozelock or eqiv water STOP hose connection fitted by any chance?


----------



## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

andy monty said:


> Dean have you got a Hozelock or eqiv water STOP hose connection fitted by any chance?


TBH that should not make any difference, my hose connection has one of thos stop locks on, and also the hose run is 60m before it gets to the power washer inlet.
It seems some products whilst technically ample are not proving themself on a practical stage. The people dissapointed with a product have a right to air their findings, I do feel sorry for them though as many buy what most folks shout about at the time, not necesarrily choosing what will actually meet their requirments.


----------



## Dean123 (Jan 26, 2009)

andy monty said:


> Dean have you got a Hozelock or eqiv water STOP hose connection fitted by any chance?


Not 100% sure, i think so

Not sure it makes any difference tbh, I have got a decent foaming action now, which stabilises on the car
i just think the foam isnt all that

I have plenty of pressure coming through when the lance isnt attached,and from the videos i have seen on you tube, my lance is now producing a similar action


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Dean, as you're not happy with the foam, then return it for a refund - that's all I'm prepared to offer at this juncture.
I don't appreciate being called bud, especially when I'm tying to help you - even if you can't see that.

So, get yourself some more Elite foam, and you'll be as happy as Larry once again.

If Alex won't refund it himself, contact BH and let them know I suggested you do it directly with them in that case.


----------



## Dean123 (Jan 26, 2009)

@PJS
You dont like being called bud? your a friendly bloke arent you? what part of my post makes you think i'm being unappreciative? maybe you mis-interpreted what and how i wrote the text? But If that's how you feel, no biggie
However, If you have a problem with what i write about the product, then like you say, un-subscribe from this thread
I have gave this foam more than enough of a chance,and i am merely saying about it what i see.Others say it works good for them, other say it dont
I think in the end, with some playing about, i got the foam to work as well as it could, a good foam that stuck, but after leaving it on for a few minutes,and rinsing, it didnt remove much dirt
Me...I will be selling it on


----------



## gt140silver (May 6, 2007)

Dean123 said:


> the bottle is 1 ltr
> my mains pressure is low to begin with, but i have worked out the flow rate of the machine of what it actually is, not what spec it is, so not sure what difference measuring the mains will make bud? I think i got my math correct?
> 
> its only a budget machine,i got it free with tesco car insurance, but its not had much use
> ...


I'm gutted to say that's my impression too. I'm not an experienced detailer, and I defer to the real enthusiasts on the site, but I've tried it now 4 times at different ratios, and I'm really disappointed. I bought a PW, lance, and the BH as I had a new car, and wanted to keep the paintwork as good as possible.

I'm aware my technique might not be great but when I'm using it the BH does not foam well, does not dwell on the car, and does not remove much of the dirt (that I can see.)

I'm going to order something else and I guess that'll tell me if there's something wrong with me, the pressure washer, or the BH!
*
andy monty*- I have a hozelock thing fitted- will this be a factor? The PW seems to produce good pressure.

Free 4 litres of BH to anyone near Belfast!


----------



## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

i found that my stihl PW sucked the stop valve almost closed and reduced flow rate by been restrictive......

replaced it with a none stop valve and the PW gave more flow.



I get on well with the BH foam i use about 250ml made upto a litre with water with the foam lance set on "max" and find it cleans way better than the elite foam and the autobrite stuff i have used in the past Must be the Yorkshire dirt


----------



## gt140silver (May 6, 2007)

Thank you andy, this is a good idea and worth a try. I'll order a non stopping connector and see how it goes. Even if it doesn't work it'll give me a better way to rinse and dry the car.


----------



## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

i found the gardinia branded fittings more secure also you still get a bit too much splashing when "rinsing dry"/ sheeting get a 4" length of hose a spare connector and an inline joint less splashing that way

cobble it together and it saves taking the end off to get a smooth flow to rinse with :thumb:


----------



## ipwn (Dec 1, 2009)

Mine is green aswell. But absolute pants. 

Did all the calculations etc etc and got the right amount in. Put it just has such zero cleaning ability compared to the likes of actimousse.


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Dean123 said:


> @PJS
> You dont like being called bud? your a friendly bloke arent you? what part of my post makes you think i'm being unappreciative? maybe you mis-interpreted what and how i wrote the text? But If that's how you feel, no biggie
> However, If you have a problem with what i write about the product, then like you say, un-subscribe from this thread
> I have gave this foam more than enough of a chance,and i am merely saying about it what i see.Others say it works good for them, other say it dont
> ...


I am very friendly, but your reply read as if you were annoyed at my asking the various questions - in all my time here, I don't recall replying to anyone's thread using bud, pal, mate, as those simple words can often convey more than just the term of endearment.
Apologies if I picked you up wrong.

Needless to say, I care not one jot what you or anyone writes about Auto-foam - it's immaterial to me other than trying to help see if your process needs adjusting to make it more effective.

You're right about others not liking it either - but there's more who do than don't, not that I'm counting, and we'll continue to use it so long as we find it still effective for the jobs we task it with.

For what it's worth, as your PW is a bit on the weak side, I'd suggest putting it 3" from the surface when rinsing, and see if that has any effect.
Put it on the medium width fan, assuming it's adjustable.


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

gt140silver said:


> Free 4 litres of BH to anyone near Belfast!


PM me - I'll swap you something for it, if you're serious.


----------



## Dean123 (Jan 26, 2009)

Me, annoyed?
not at all, I used to run a forum, so i know how posts can be mis-interpreted, just like you have mine, but like i said, its no biggie and we can just move on :thumb:
Personally I dont see anything wrong with writing the words bud,mate,pal etc but each to their own so i will bear that in mind when addressing you in future

I will try your suggestion regarding adjusting the PW settings, although i dont think there is a low/high pressure switch on it aswell :thumb:
I will also check how it works with the valve taken off
cheers


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Not PW setting as far as pressure regulation is concerned, but the adjustability of the rinse lance nozzle.
At that end of the market, I'm not sure if adjustable nozzles are supplied for the user to vary the width of the output from normally full fan to pencil thin.
On my Makita, I've it set to a medium width, and use it about 4-6" off the panels.
What's left is the very fine traffic film, which is easily dispensed with by the wash mitt and shampoo.

I've long held the view on here, that most PW users don't make enough use of the pressurised water at their disposal, choosing to stand too far off the car when rinsing.
It's the proximity of the nozzle to the panel at the rinse stage that helps push off the grime suspended in the foam.


----------



## gt140silver (May 6, 2007)

PJS said:


> PM me - I'll swap you something for it, if you're serious.


I will try changing the stop valve on the hose first (ordered it today). If there is no improvement I will gladly give it to you for free.


----------



## Dean123 (Jan 26, 2009)

@PJS
I have the left overs of a top of the range karcher, pretty sure the lance head on the gun is adjustable to give different spray effects, will check next time i use it


----------



## gt140silver (May 6, 2007)

off topic, but boy do I love that avatar!


----------

