# Government cuts ...Mmmm



## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

So the goverments latest plan is to take benifits such as the telly licence and cold weather payments off those who worked hard and have reached pensionable age.. Paid their taxes and saved a few quid ?
Course if you have spunked the lot on fast fast women and booze you will still get it...

Am I the only one thinking I will have nout in the bank come retirement time ?

As it is the barstuards have taken the retirement age to 67 from 65 for many of us....

The ministers have just given themselves a TEN THOUSAND pounds a year pay rise..

What the hell has happened in country that we all accept this complete Bull sh!t ?


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

ChuckH said:


> So the goverments latest plan is to take benifits such as the telly licence and cold weather payments off those who worked hard and have reached pensionable age.. Paid their taxes and saved a few quid ?
> Course if you have spunked the lot on fast fast women and booze you will still get it...
> 
> Am I the only one thinking I will have nout in the bank come retirement time ?
> ...


So much for the Tories pledge on cracking down on benefit cheats, to be honest Chuck, cant see the Tories getting in at next election, they have made some serious mistakes in the cuts they have made and this example is just one of many.


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## pooma (Apr 12, 2008)

ChuckH said:


> So the goverments latest plan is to take benifits such as the telly licence and cold weather payments off those who worked hard and have reached pensionable age.. Paid their taxes and saved a few quid ?
> Course if you have spunked the lot on fast fast women and booze you will still get it...
> 
> Am I the only one thinking I will have nout in the bank come retirement time ?
> ...


I'm sure they put something in our water supply to keep us all calm, the country is going to the dogs.


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## Mick (Jan 23, 2010)

spursfan said:


> So much for the Tories pledge on cracking down on benefit cheats, to be honest Chuck, cant see the Tories getting in at next election, they have made some serious mistakes in the cuts they have made and this example is just one of many.


so long as there is loopholes in the benefits system, there will be people who exploit it for a living. sad but unfortunately thats the case for many, who try to get "on the sick" to claim more money etc... it boils my ****

So long as we all put up with it though, it will only get worse :thumb:


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

What are the hard working, tax paying people such as us meant to do about it?
If there was something to do id do it, just have no idea on were to start.
Would you go as far as grassing on benefit cheats?
Its even worse when people brag about it


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Totally agree, ******* liberty afaic. Trouble is we sit back and accept it like mugs. The proposed cutting of fire stations and A&E's does my tree in an all! What's all that about ? It's madness


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## LeadFarmer (Feb 23, 2011)

The only a way you can do anything is by voting accordingly at the next election. 

I'm sure there's some kind of media ban on certain topical issues of late. What with recent EDL/UAF activity, troubles in N Ireland, political decisions and the like. 

But it's hard to know how to vote next time as the three main parties all have their problems...

Conservatives - impacted with my life too much to ever vote for. 
Labour - led by a total bafoon. 
Lib Dems - led by a total bafoon. 
UKIP - probably a wated vote?


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

I'm voting UKIP in the next election, it will probably be a wasted vote but the three main parties offer the same old lies and nothing to benefit the country.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

The majority of politicians are in the game to line their own pockets and not actually to act for the best interests of their country. It's more or less expected nowadays.

For what it's worth, people taking the view that UKIP is a wasted vote is probably UKIP's biggest challenge. If people voted for what they believed in, they'd be in a much better position.

The Liblabcon all have the same shared goal; all members of the same old boys club. I won't ever vote for what they stand for again.


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

We do have it **** here. 

Maybe move to Syria where it's much better!


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## blackS2000 (Aug 4, 2010)

UKIP is a wasted vote is it ?

You only vote for the winning party ? 

Or for what you believe in .

Sheeplike mentality rule's !


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## TonyH38 (Apr 7, 2013)

As above my sentiments exactly vote UKIP


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## angel1449 (Apr 15, 2012)

people moan about this and that such as petrol when it went through the roof but nobody does anything we all just sit back and take it, plenty of people with things to say but no action unlike other countries who have the balls to stand up


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

I think the people of Brazil have the right idea!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

blackS2000 said:


> UKIP is a wasted vote is it ?
> 
> You only vote for the winning party ?
> 
> ...


Nail > Head.

It's only "considered" a wasted vote because people are to stupid/scared/busy/lazy to actually go and vote.

With the low turnouts that elections are getting, there is now a real chance to get a different party in.

IF... and it's a big IF... you believe if truly works like that, and things aren't just for show. 

governments and politicians are nothing but puppets, and although they claim to fight and believe in different things, the country gets worse and it stays on track... it may bounce slightly from the left to the right a la bowling "bumpers" but essential, our country is right on track for where and what the real owners and power makers want.

Want some simple proof…. Well, any new party could save 50 BILLION pounds a year with one simple move - stop paying interest to private people for the "use" of fake money.

FIAT money doesn't mean anything, it's not backed by anything, so why the need to pay interest?

I won't say anymore, because as it's been shown, this sort of thing isn't wanted on here... I'll be called "crazy" and "delusional" at best.. 

:thumb:


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

Mr cuey for pm:thumb::thumb:


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

As usual cuey talking sense.

Here's Gerard batten of ukip at the bilderberg protest






they'll be getting my vote!

Ed balls and Osbourne go to the same meeting under Chatham house rules, and both come out with austerity policies.....
They are cutting spending on purpose because those in real power know the country is highly leveraged in debt. Cut off the money supply and let people and companies default on the debt and those at the top buy up the assets at a fire sale!

Remember, wealth is never destroyed, it is merely transferred!


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## mattcoupturbo (Aug 14, 2006)

The cuts in benefit are against those that are wealthy enough to not need them anyway. But hey let's jump on the bandwagon and go mental. Also the original retirement age was from a time when we didn't live as long so stretching it out is hardly an issue given that the vast majority of us will live much longer these days. You could also be of the opinion if you tried hard enough in life to better you life you could retire whenever you liked. 

UKIP make lots of wonderful claims about this and that but everything returns to the argument about Europe with them, not that isn't a topic to be addressed. I have always felt they would be lost if there was a referendum and we voted to leave the EU as that would leave half of their manifesto empty. They are also in the nice position of being able to claim what they like as they won't get any serious power to be put in a situation to in order to back it up. 

I vote for the lesser of the evils and at the last election that was the Tories. If any one thinks the cuts would have been less under Labour are seriously misguided. Ed Balls wouldn't know proper economic policy if it slapped him in his pompous face, less said about the buffoon who runs the party the better. We need a none of the above on our voting slips in order to really show our dissatisfaction with the parties.


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

Imo ukip are traditional conservative policies- small government, free markets, tough on crime, small welfare state, sound money.

Regarding the welfare being cut for those who can afford it, well if they paid the extra tax into the pot then they are entitled to receive the benefits. Personally government shouldn't get involved with most of the welfare policies in the first place. Keep the majority of what you earn but you are responsible.

They are playing divide and rule. First they are going after those who've got money, but because it doesn't effect the lower class we will accept it, but you better believe they'll come after all of us afterwards!

Voting the lesser of two evils, still means evil gets in power!


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

mattcoupturbo said:


> The cuts in benefit are against those that are wealthy enough to not need them anyway. But hey let's jump on the bandwagon and go mental. Also the original retirement age was from a time when we didn't live as long so stretching it out is hardly an issue given that the vast majority of us will live much longer these days. You could also be of the opinion if you tried hard enough in life to better you life you could retire whenever you liked.
> 
> UKIP make lots of wonderful claims about this and that but everything returns to the argument about Europe with them, not that isn't a topic to be addressed. I have always felt they would be lost if there was a referendum and we voted to leave the EU as that would leave half of their manifesto empty. They are also in the nice position of being able to claim what they like as they won't get any serious power to be put in a situation to in order to back it up.
> 
> I vote for the lesser of the evils and at the last election that was the Tories. If any one thinks the cuts would have been less under Labour are seriously misguided. Ed Balls wouldn't know proper economic policy if it slapped him in his pompous face, less said about the buffoon who runs the party the better. We need a none of the above on our voting slips in order to really show our dissatisfaction with the parties.


The points you are missing is that the people who work hard and have saved a bit as encouraged are once again going to get less.. They pay in the most yet get less out simply because they dont need it ???

Its all very well raising the pensionable age but many like for instance those who do heavy manual jobs like say in the building trade just cant cobble on for the extra years .. Fact that is !

I have worked very hard and paid in a huge amount of both taxes and NI.. Where on my sometimes ridiculous tax bill often at 40% was the option to pay less because perhaps I could choose not to take the state pension or the other benefits that "should" go along with having paid in so much money ?

The fact are that those who choose to sit through life on state handouts will enjoy more in their retirement years than those who have grafted and knackered them selves and paid in year after year ... Now surely something doesn't add up ?


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

Very true chuckh!

what would people say if your car or your life insurance, if and when you claim, turn around and say 'sorry we are having a bit of financial difficulties and the moment, and we are not going to pay out because you can afford it anyway'! 
What's the point of paying the premium if they move the goal post!


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## jimbo1987 (May 3, 2013)

possul said:


> What are the hard working, tax paying people such as us meant to do about it?
> If there was something to do id do it, just have no idea on were to start.
> Would you go as far as grassing on benefit cheats?
> Its even worse when people brag about it


Join the edl or the likes. Their misunderstood as hooligans and racists. But in reality all theyre doing is standing up for what most english people are sittin around talking about.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

yeah, the Engerrrlish.....


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## jimbo1987 (May 3, 2013)

The Cueball said:


> yeah, the Engerrrlish.....


Lol. Last time I checked the scots werent chasin all the benefit cheating, bucky drinking junkies outa glasgow. So get off ya high horse


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

well at least your second post had some truth to it... :lol:

:thumb:


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## mattcoupturbo (Aug 14, 2006)

So a company director who has a cracking company pension should still get money spent on giving him a free bus pass when he spunks 50k on a new car? I think not. Anyone who has a labour related job can work until they are unable to physically do so, if the strain from 40 years hard graft prevents them working then that's what the benefit system is there for. Or like my father in law you do something else, he spent years working doing paving for the council until his back gave in and now he drives the road sweeper earning the same as he did before. 

Universal benefits are great but why should the seriously rich get money spent on them that they don't need? If money was growing on trees then great waste loads doing that but it isn't. Same as child tax benefits, why should a couple earning £100,000 between them get the same benefits as those struggling on £20,000. 

Benefits should be used to help the most needy and not be seen as an entitlement for all just because the other bloke down the road gets them. It was the previous Labour government that breed this manner of entitlement like all these chav idiots who get £1600 a month but claim poverty to the news paper whilst sky movies is on in the back ground and kids are all playing on IPads. 

Also anyone that believes the EDL are anything other than fascist racist bigots need to have a long hard look at themselves.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

so the company director that pays in up to 50% of his high salary for decades isn't allowed to take the cost of a bus pass out???

why planet are you on??? :wall::wall::wall:

yeah I agree, they would just work their asses off, and not take anything back, even though they give a h€ll of a lot...

sums up the UK at the moment, the people that give the least think they should be entitled to more than the people putting in...

:lol:

I do agree about the EDL though.

:thumb:


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

jimbo1987 said:


> Join the edl or the likes. Their misunderstood as hooligans and racists. But in reality all theyre doing is standing up for what most english people are sittin around talking about.


Not too sure misunderstood is the right word there...

Don't get me wrong, I can't stand Unite Against Freedom or whatever they're called either, but just one form of extremism to another IMO and I haven't got any time for either group.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Why on earth are you talking about the seriously rich and top company directors ??
Try and stay within reality ?? I'm talking regular people who have saved hard so they can have that wee bit extra come retirement time.. So they have savings of over 16 grand which means they will get none of the fringe benefits that those who have spent everything !! 
I actually know a fellow roof tiler who is going to have to retire this year as his knees are shot. He will get next to nothing despite grafting like a lunatic since leaving school at 15 years if age.. He is 58 now and has been told that as his wife earns a pittance he will get bugger all .. 
One of his neighbours gets full state handouts and in reality is far better off ... 
Sorry but those who pay in the most should not be the ones who get the least out.. That is just stupid..


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

and just before we get any more fat cat bashing, a simple story to explain how it all works and why they are needed...story uses dollars, but pounds work just as well......




Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. ‘Since you are all such good customers, he said, ‘I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men – the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’ They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

‘I only got a dollar out of the $20,’declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,’ but he got $10!’

‘Yeah, that’s right,’ exclaimed the fifth man. ‘I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!’

‘That’s true!!’ shouted the seventh man. ‘Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!’

‘Wait a minute,’ yelled the first four men in unison. ‘We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!’

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

That sums t up nice cuey.

I have no interest in politics, they do nothing for me except tax me for driving to work, tax me for working and then when I decide to eat they tax me for that, so to take a break from it all I'll go on holiday ... But wait, it cost more in taxes to get out of the country than the airline charges me for a ticket


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

I find politics really interesting.
Once i started researching deeper into it, you see how we (the common people) really are stitched up, and the elite just use smoke and mirrors to give us the perception of democracy!
It also links into economics/monetary system and law!


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

kh904 said:


> I find politics really interesting.
> Once i started researching deeper into it, you see how we (the common people) really are stitched up, and the elite just use smoke and mirrors to give us the perception of democracy!
> It also links into economics/monetary system and law!


TBH I think I was a lot happier before I looked into things a little deeper. :wall:


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

The thing that annoys me with this country is that if you're successful then it's a bad thing. 

If you're not working class you've never worked a day in your life and you're a posh ****!

Shouldn't we be getting our kids to aspire to be successful rather than have at go at those who have lots?


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

ardandy said:


> The thing that annoys me with this country is that if you're successful then it's a bad thing.
> 
> If you're not working class you've never worked a day in your life and you're a posh ****!
> 
> Shouldn't we be getting our kids to aspire to be successful rather than have at go at those who have lots?


exactly...

laziness, jealousy and ignorance are the main attributes of a lot of people in this country now...

you can even see it on here.... people think they are better than others because they wash a car 'properly'

there are loads of posts with someone, usually who owns a cheap, dull eurobox that is slagging an owner of an exotic car for just getting it washed quickly.... it's pathetic, the same people couldn't hope to own a car like that, but still think they had the right to have a go at them... via a public forum of course, not in person... 

why don't they go and work hard to afford said exotica, and show us all how to treat it right??? because they are nothing but knuckledraggers.

don't even go there if you have worked hard, earned a bit of money and want to spend that on a wax than the moronic mob deem to be too expensive - burned at the steak!!! :lol:

it's a sad fact of life that the better you do for yourself, you'll have the people that can't do what you can, either by design or laziness have a go at you.... at the end of the day, that is easier and makes them feel better than actually trying to improve their own life.

haters gonna hate...

:thumb:


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

Lol, this guy is funny! The artist taxi driver, talks about politics and current affairs lots of swearing though (recommend was his other videos)


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

I've thought for a while now that it's a bit like a pressure cooker - lots of people seem pee'd off but no-one's doing anything other than moaning and then accepting it.

Does it bug me that "my" taxes are being used to house the workshy? Of course but less than my ex using the 15% a month I pay her for things other than supporting our daughter - thing is, once it leaves my bank it's got **** all to do with me, it's on her conscience.

Likewise, once my taxes are paid, it's kinda out of my control. I'm looking out for me and my family from now on rather than getting chest pain shouting at the injustice of it all - I personally reckon that the system's so buggered much of it can't be fixed.

Did I spend a bit too much when the rules weren't tight enough? Yes I did, as did most on here I suspect. Has it left me with a few debts which I'd rather not have? Yes again, for the next 5-6 years. Bit of a git that but I don't miss what at the moment I don't have - I borrowed when I probably shouldn't have and I'm bright enough to understand that it's my fault and not somebody else's.

That said, the regulation of the financial system was woeful and I hope that the FCA might work where the FSA really, really didn't.

And if that sounds naive, try making a formal (like 20-odd page) complaint to the FOS/FSA - I won't bore you but the finding was along the lines of "well, they didn't keep accurate enough records so we can't make a fair judgement as they can't prove their version of events" - regulation my big fat ar$e 

Maybe I've just got old or something but I'm fed up of shouting at QT every week, particularly at Labour politicians sneering at the coalition for "what they've done" - most of which appears to be untangling the mess that Labour left behind.

Likewise UKIP, IMHO, is the BNP with a more charismatic leader (which is what I've said they'll need to gain support for years as Mr Griffin is frankly a chimp - which is actually an insult to monkeys) - Faberge seems to have all the answers which is easy when you have little real influence.


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

LeadFarmer said:


> The only a way you can do anything is by voting accordingly at the next election.
> 
> I'm sure there's some kind of media ban on certain topical issues of late. What with recent EDL/UAF activity, troubles in N Ireland, political decisions and the like.
> 
> ...


no such thing as a wasted vote, if everyone voted for UKIP, rather than thinking it was a wasted vote, you may well be surprised at how well they might do.
Certainly agree with you on the other three though, all too similar with their policies which leaves the voter with no real choice.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Focusing on the leader of a party's character is what's helping UKIP isn't it? Faberge comes across as charming and all that old BS when in reality it doesn't matter a fig what he's "like" - neither him, nor Cameron, Clegg or The Ed Miller Band are ever coming to tea or to babysit so what does it matter what they're like??

UKIP knows that lots of think like this however so they stick a jolly, *** smoking, politically "incorrect" chap who also seems like a rather good bloke and hey presto! Because many seem to only vote for a person rather than a party Mr Faberge gets the keys to Number Ten in 2 years' time and God Help Us All.

However Mr Faberge is just another politician - the fact that he thinks that we should all be able to smoke wherever we like (and kill our kids with passive smoking) doesn't make UKIP the answer to our problems.

Oh and I smoke too and am quite happy to get rained on if I want a *** while I'm having a pint. So stick that up your bottom Nige  :lol:


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

AndyC said:


> Maybe I've just got old or something but I'm fed up of shouting at QT every week, particularly at Labour politicians sneering at the coalition for "what they've done" - most of which appears to be untangling the mess that Labour left behind..


Yup - this is how i feel as well. It seems that Labour will talk down every plan the coalition say its the wrong thing to do. Say they would do it differently but never actually say how just some headliners with no basis....
..then they say Oh if we get into government we won't change anything for over a year even if we don't agree its right.

If they had any backbone they would say that the policies they funadamentally think are wrong would be changed with a full proposal pre-election. But we know that won't happen as they don't actually know what to do.

No matter who is in power at the moment the outcome would be virtually the same and the opposition would be saying "Your doing it wrong"


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

AndyC said:


> Focusing on the leader of a party's character is what's helping UKIP isn't it? Faberge comes across as charming and all that old BS when in reality it doesn't matter a fig what he's "like" - neither him, nor Cameron, Clegg or The Ed Miller Band are ever coming to tea or to babysit so what does it matter what they're like??
> 
> UKIP knows that lots of think like this however so they stick a jolly, *** smoking, politically "incorrect" chap who also seems like a rather good bloke and hey presto! Because many seem to only vote for a person rather than a party Mr Faberge gets the keys to Number Ten in 2 years' time and God Help Us All.
> 
> ...


I focus on the policies/philosophies not characters/personalities. 
A certain Tony Blair was very charismatic and a good leader, as is Obama, but there policies on the other hand are another matter!

Is UKIP perfect? No, but it annoys me when people just lazily brand them racist! Do they have some racist supporters? Most definitely, but so do Conservatives & Labour etc, but i'll think you find a lot of my friends who are not 'white' but are British born and bred do support their philosophy (i'm non-white also)!

Ie sovereignty, controlled immigration, free-markets, reward for hard work, and very importantly individual liberties over the nanny state (upholding the Magna Carta, which successive governments are trying to override)!

Anyway, i'm going off-topic a bit.

The main reason why are having these cuts, that nobody in the mainstream talking about seriously is down to MONETARY policy! 
Ie how currency is made, and the setting of interest rates and the fact that most of the money is created as interest-bearing debt! And this debt is often sold like a ponzi (pyramid) scheme.
It can only succeed if you get more people taking on debt than gets paid back and we can't borrow forever!


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## mattcoupturbo (Aug 14, 2006)

The Cueball said:


> so the company director that pays in up to 50% of his high salary for decades isn't allowed to take the cost of a bus pass out???
> 
> why planet are you on??? :wall::wall::wall:
> 
> ...


Way to miss my point completely. I believe the limit of those that receive the benefit or not is going to be around an upper limit of £150,000 annual income to get it. If you think in times of hard ship that the rich should not help by not receiving benefits that make little or no difference to them then that's fine but benefits should no be blanket to all, simple as. If we applied the same system to our international aid we'd be paying France the same as Ethopia despite the obviously massive difference in GDP.

I am not an anti rich person, I am very much of the belief that if you want to better your life then the only real way is to work hard for it, hence my point on the entitlement culture we have here. Your story is very true in life, you only have to look to France to see the impact on the rich that Hollande's policies have had.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

nope, don't think I did, although my brain is starting to slow down now that I retired last week, so you could be right. 

your statements are way off the mark about directors and I think you need to remember that income doesn't mean equity.

I know more "rich" people in the 30-40k income bracket, and some of the highest earning have nothing but debt.

so in your example, you should give benefits to the higher income people, as they have less... (they just look like they have more)

people, especially government pick the easiest way to make a point, when you look and understand the subject matter, you see how far off they really are. 

in this example, they, and you have picked income level.... pointless really.

:thumb:


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## phillipnoke (Apr 1, 2011)

Stop all immigration they have but nothing into our country make them pay medical insurance etc like we have to if we go abroad and they have to bee here for 5 years before they get anything at all


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## mattcoupturbo (Aug 14, 2006)

Income level is a perfectly good way of measuring it. Just because people are feckless with their money if they start earning a decent wedge is irrelevant. If you're massively in debt then you can have no one but yourself to blame. They need to sell some of their assets etc and not sit in a £1,000,000 house crying about the mortgage cost. I certainly have no sympathy for someone who finds themselves in negative equity because they were naive to think that the huge property rise would continue.

My comment about company directors was merely an example and my point applies to anyone that earns a decent wedge. If I earned that much through property rentals say I would not expect the state to pay for me to use public transport. 

Also if your circumstances change through say something like the recession then fine, you should get the benefit if you find yourself, can't work through injury anymore then the state can help you get by, not just don't expect to still be able to go on holiday to Greece every year on it.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)




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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Well it's not that now as rising £6,000 a second.

Who owes it? We all do 

Correct me if wrong . 2 trillion, 206 billion, 570 million, 390 thousand, 32 pounds ?
Who do we borrow this from?


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

I was just about to ask how you had seen my bank balance. :lol:

Oh and it's £1trillion not 2


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## Kenny Powers (May 29, 2013)

That's not too bad when you compare it to countries of similar population.

E.g. Italy has a slightly smaller population of 60,820,764 with a National Debt of €2.031 Trillion (approx stg£1.722 Trillion) which works out at £28334 per head of population.

The UK's National Debt, having a population of 63,182,000, works out at £19,096 per head.

Here's an interesting website on this;

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/

In the time it's taken me to type this, it's gone up another £18 Billion!:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho

There seems to be a bit of a discrepancy on the actual figure between different sites, so here's a site that tallies more with the OP's figure;

http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/


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## bigbadjay (May 29, 2012)

Who do the countrys owe this too? banks? China?


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## Saamm93 (Nov 9, 2012)

A debit made by out of touch people trying to run a county. Well done guys


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

Saamm93 said:


> A debit made by out of touch people trying to run a county. Well done guys


How did you come to that conclusion?


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

Who do we owe this money to?

There's a few threads on here (try searching money creation on this forum).
Theres also a good YouTube video by Mike Maloney called 'why gold and silver'.

Essentially I believe we owe money to central banks who either create it out of thin air at interest (most central banks I believe are privately owned), or they issue government bonds which are secured by the tax payer.

To put it simply WE are money (we give the currency value).


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Osborne should visit CAB


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## Vossman (Aug 5, 2010)

Whoever they say "we" owe it to the problem wss not created by you and me, ie the normal folk, we are being made to suffer because of mistakes by banks essentially and now we are being told what to do by millionaire's who's pathetic policies will not affect them, The disabled people or people who live in council houses are not the problem, it's greedy people at the top.

France has announced that central government is to cut spending for the first time since *1958* yes that not a typo either.

Someone is taking us for fools.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

We are the highest taxed nation in the western world but other countries have better services.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Exotica said:


> We are the highest taxed nation in the western world but other countries have better services.


Do you have figures to back that up?

What about Sweden, Germany and Holland... just for starters?

:thumb:


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

I nicked that quote off the Wright stuff


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Vossman said:


> Whoever they say "we" owe it to the problem wss not created by you and me, ie the normal folk, we are being made to suffer because of mistakes by banks essentially and now we are being told what to do by millionaire's who's pathetic policies will not affect them, The disabled people or people who live in council houses are not the problem, it's greedy people at the top.
> 
> France has announced that central government is to cut spending for the first time since *1958* yes that not a typo either.
> 
> Someone is taking us for fools.


Well said. My sentiment's exactly


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Vossman said:


> Whoever they say "we" owe it to the problem wss not created by you and me, ie the normal folk, we are being made to suffer because of mistakes by banks essentially and now we are being told what to do by millionaire's who's pathetic policies will not affect them, The disabled people or people who live in council houses are not the problem, it's greedy people at the top.
> 
> France has announced that central government is to cut spending for the first time since *1958* yes that not a typo either.
> 
> Someone is taking us for fools.


it's the banking system at fault.

it's the government that decided to bail the bank out... why did they do that, when they don't save other businesses, so you have to understand why they have done it.

the banks are not at fault for people living beyond their means... that is still the responsibility of the individual...

sales people at the banks have targets and bonuses, so they were just trying to sell as much as possible (same as every sales person in the world)

but if someone tired to sell you a mini for £300,000, then you tell them to f**k off.... a lot of people didn't seem to do this when someone at a bank offered them money they couldn't afford.

:thumb:


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

Love this dude. He's so gangsta hahaha


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## Delboy_Trotter (Jun 7, 2007)

I've no beef with someone who has dragged themselves of the heap as it were to earn a decent crust, has 2.5 kids, a tidy motor, nice house and have a few quid in there pocket once the bills are paid. 

I do have a problem however with people who get up to there eyes in debt to keep up with the jones' and expect the system to bail them out. I can't afford a mortgage so I haven't got one, I don't go on fancy holidays abroad because I can't afford it, I work 50hrs a week to try and better myself and don't get paid after the first 37 (but that's a separate problem). I take my car of the road when I can't afford it (its off at the moment) and get to work however I can, I live at home aged 29, not because I want to but because I have to.

I do also have a problem with the lazy and work shy scum who sit in a flat paid for by the system, have 25 kids, go on holiday to Tenerife on an all inclusive for 2 weeks every year but refuse to get a job because its beneath them.

I realise people are on benefits for legitimate reasons, who in many cases would love to be able to work, but the job of caring for an ill family member or have suffered injury working there backside off


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## Vossman (Aug 5, 2010)

What is wrong now is that we have millionaires telling us to pull our belts in even more while they give themselves a £10,000 year rise.
Iain Duncan Smith for one lives in a 2.5 million pound mansion rent free and kicks people who are down for having a bedroom spare. This is no more than a simple tax on the lowest in society. 
I agree that there has been a generation of people now who don't want to work but making them work at Poundland for FREE with no prospect of a job at the end of their six months there is just compounding the problem. People would work in real jobs but making people do it for nothing is just plain stupid. This is just ear candy to some of the electorate who mainly live in the south east, I didn't vote these idiots in - in fact no one did! I didn't vote labour or lib dem either before I am jumped on.
Cutting is not the solution, money needs to be put into construction, everything else will follow.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Vossman said:


> What is wrong now is that we have millionaires telling us to pull our belts in even more while they give themselves a £10,000 year rise.


I still don't believe that a) they have been that arrogant, and b) it's slipped by largely without anyone going off their f***g heads about it...

If there was ever a reason to start shouting, surely that was it???

:thumb:


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## Vossman (Aug 5, 2010)

Its good how they can slip a ten grand a year rise in isn't it and not many people see it, but give someone who needs it a 2% rise in benefits and they push it out to the country as an outrage. 
I was old enough to vote when thatcher came to power and no I didn't vote for her either - she destroyed British industry despite warnings of what the outcome would be to concentrate on the banking sector - her sort of people, the Germans took all the heavy industry and they prospered while our towns and cities died - apart from London and a few towns around it.
The tories want to destroy the ordinary working man - we are beneath them or so they think, after the next election they will sit licking their wounds saying "oh well we might have got it a little wrong", nothing will change though because they are all still even richer millionaires and you will be even poorer still.
While they bang on about tax avoidance or evasion try asking Cameron or Osbourne where their family fortunes are tied up, not here for sure and nowhere that the UK gvt can get to it, that's arrogant in my opinion and smacks of double standards, there should be no MP's who have not had a real job in the real world for a min of 5 years. Then they may actually work for US and not themselves.


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