# Up to £3,500 for a fun to drive diesel hatch



## chris3boro (May 12, 2008)

Hi all,

I am starting to consider a move to a diesel hatch of some description over the next 6 months or so.

£3,500 budget and must be fairly fun to drive.

I am wanting something to use most days as my main car so it must be reliable and usable in all weather conditions but also able to raise a smile on a twisty road when the mood strikes. The ability to carry a reasonable amount of stuff would help too for weekends visiting family in Wales (hence the hatch part).

Any modifications would be minor and down the line so the basic cars must be up to the job.

So far I am thinking of the Fabia VRS, Ibiza TDI Cupra (just, though the suspension on my pd130 sport was hard/crashy enough!) and Focus Mk1 TDCI Sport.

Thoughts very much appreciated

Thanks


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

Focus is a good car imo but not the quickest at all even with a remap.
Also will most probably have some worn suspension parts which can get costly to replace.
Fabian Vrs is a bargain performance diesel, I'd choose that over the Ibiza.
Being vag parts, remap, suspension very easy to get and fit.

I'd pay a bit more and get one of these (this one is within your budget but from a very quick search)
http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classi...words/Sport/postcode/ng118hd/page/1?logcode=p


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## Dannbodge (Sep 26, 2010)

Fabia VRs would be my choice from that bunch.
What about astra 1.9SRi or Corsa 1.7cdti Sri.

I had a 05 corsa 1.7 and it was a very good car. Nippy enough and did up to 65mpg on a long run when full up. It didn't handle that badly either.


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## chris3boro (May 12, 2008)

320d is interesting- I like the thoughts of it as a driver's car, my only issue would be its usability as it could be trickier (albeit more fun) in winter and poor weather. Also no seat down/hatch option bar the estate to help with trips to Wales to see family


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## chris3boro (May 12, 2008)

Dannbodge said:


> Fabia VRs would be my choice from that bunch.
> What about astra 1.9SRi or Corsa 1.7cdti Sri.
> 
> I had a 05 corsa 1.7 and it was a very good car. Nippy enough and did up to 65mpg on a long run when full up. It didn't handle that badly either.


Mmmm neither quite appeals/excited me I'm afraid. I know we are talking about 'sporty diesels' but somehow the VRS/ Focus seem more appealing in that sense


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## Captain Peanut (Apr 19, 2011)

Either the vRS or possibly a Fiesta Zetec S Diesel. Old man has one, great fun to drive with good fuel economy and only £30 a year road tax


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

Well the bmw fan boys will probably be along to tell you different  
Only suggested that as my preferences are different, I've got a kid to put in the back, slowly getting a little bit harder the bigger he's gets! 

Mondeo st tdci????
Astra cdti (150bhp)???? As above


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

chris3boro said:


> Mmmm neither quite appeals/excited me I'm afraid. I know we are talking about 'sporty diesels' but somehow the VRS/ Focus seem more appealing in that sense


Focus will not be quich enough, although a good all rounder. Quicker diesels out there


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## Scrim-1- (Oct 8, 2008)

Astra 1.9cdti very quick when remapped.


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## chris3boro (May 12, 2008)

Good thoughts so far 

I'm not fussed about out right speed, the 'feel' of the car is more important to me to be honest, having currently got a mk3 MR2 I don't want something completely numb though I know anything will still feel far less involving.


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## johanr77 (Aug 4, 2011)

I had a mk1 focus tdci sport, wasn't the fastest and suffered from not having a sixth gear. It was chuckable though, not a bad handling car for a hatchback. I did like the focus, but for a diesel the fuel economy was poor, have driven a fabia vrs and while it is a bit smaller especially inside, it was quite nippy although it didn't handle as well as the focus, did get better mpg though. If it was my coin I'd be looking at the ibiza fr with a 130pd engine, same as the fabia but a nicer looking car imo.


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## Turkleton (Apr 18, 2010)

Fun to drive,
Diesel,
Hatch back...


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## chris3boro (May 12, 2008)

^ Helpful input 



johanr77 said:


> I had a mk1 focus tdci sport, wasn't the fastest and suffered from not having a sixth gear. It was chuckable though, not a bad handling car for a hatchback. I did like the focus, but for a diesel the fuel economy was poor, have driven a fabia vrs and while it is a bit smaller especially inside, it was quite nippy although it didn't handle as well as the focus, did get better mpg though. If it was my coin I'd be looking at the ibiza fr with a 130pd engine, same as the fabia but a nicer looking car imo.


I have owned an Ibiza PS130-awful suspension-way to hard and crashy yet wallowy in the corners. I hear the VRS is better set up in comparison. Interesting to hear the focus and vrs comparison, thanks


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I've got to be honest, fun and diesel don't go together, to heavy at the front then all and nothing power delivery

However, Leon fr tdi, if you can find one polo gt tdi (very rare) or wild card (and big) s type td, possibly 407 coupe.

However I would make sure they have a full history, no dpf and that the fuel pump and injectors are good. Have a look on eBay and see how many focus's and mondeos are being sold as spares or repair,


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I think you'll really struggle, especially with such a budget in place. 

Going from a MR2 to a FWD diesel is a major change of direction. 

If you are going to be doing bigger miles, I'd just look at something that is a relaxing as possible to eat up the miles. 

I'd just end up looking for a bigger saloon that offered value for money. It would be a bit dull though.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

SteveTDCi said:


> I've got to be honest, fun and diesel don't go together, to heavy at the front then all and nothing power delivery
> 
> However, Leon fr tdi, if you can find one polo gt tdi (very rare) or wild card (and big) s type td, possibly 407 coupe.
> 
> However I would make sure they have a full history, no dpf and that the fuel pump and injectors are good. Have a look on eBay and see how many focus's and mondeos are being sold as spares or repair,


I never realised you could get a 407 coupe for that money. I had to look.

That's the best suggestion by a mile so far. At least it looks very smart.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201310319565313 Here is a link to one.

2.7 V6 with over 200bhp. Sat nav and leather.

I wonder with the headlamp washers that means xenon headlamps?

That's a lot of car for the money.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

The only thing with the 407 is it seems a bit sterile, comfy, silent and reasonably rapid. Double glazing too from what I remember, it's only auto though.

S type might not be in budget though, considering it has the same engine as the 407 it's a completely different driving experience.


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

I think you are quite limited with the idea of a fun diesel for £3500. Pretty much stuck with the Ibiza fr or cupra and the Fabia vrs. If it were me, I'd get an Ibiza fr and change the springs and shocks for good quality ones. I done that on mine and it made a huge difference to ride quality. I saw an Ibiza fr on the road the other day there and I think it's still a good looking car, if now dated. Fairly reliable too, there's a list of common faults, but none are serious.

Here is my old one


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

Leon FR or Golf GT Tdi ?


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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

For £3.5k it has to be a Fabia VRS or Fiesta Zetec S TDCi

Try both & see what you think - VRS has the better engine, Fiesta has the better chassis.

Ibiza has woeful suspension/damping & the interior quality is even worse than a Fabia's and that's saying something!

I had an Ibiza when they first came out in 2002 (TDI Sport 130) & I've had 2 Fabia VRS':driver:


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## AaronGTi (Nov 2, 2010)

Fabia vrs


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Why is a diesel important? Long commute?

I think you are going to be let down if you value the "feel" of a car.


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Summit Detailing said:


> For £3.5k it has to be a Fabia VRS or Fiesta Zetec S TDCi
> 
> Try both & see what you think - VRS has the better engine, Fiesta has the better chassis.
> 
> ...


Agreed interior quality isn't great. Rattles are common, but I sorted them myself pretty easily.

The vrs just looks a bit like an oap mobile.

Fiesta zetec s is a good shout. Pretty damn slow though.


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## chris3boro (May 12, 2008)

Diesel because of the huge torque without suffering badly with the fuel bill, and after the MR2 I want to have a turbo again (one aspect of the Ibiza PD130 I enjoyed) 

Summit- Please could you give me any more info on the Ibiza PS130 Sport vs VRS? Interesting to know having previously owned the same Ibiza.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Do you travel at least 60 miles a day ?


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

chris3boro said:


> Diesel because of the huge torque without suffering badly with the fuel bill, and after the MR2 I want to have a turbo again (one aspect of the Ibiza PD130 I enjoyed)
> 
> Summit- Please could you give me any more info on the Ibiza PS130 Sport vs VRS? Interesting to know having previously owned the same Ibiza.


Diesels need turbos to compete with na petrol engines.

You didn't mention mileage.


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## chris3boro (May 12, 2008)

Mileage will be about 200 miles a week, so not huge but that isn't why I am considering the change. Something more usable in rubbish weather, plenty of torque, more seats and a boot, also something of interest


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I wouldn't even begin to consider a diesel at 10k per year. 

You'll get something far better for £3.5k petrol and the difference in running costs won't be enough to worry about.


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## chris3boro (May 12, 2008)

Kerr said:


> I wouldn't even begin to consider a diesel at 10k per year.
> 
> You'll get something far better for £3.5k petrol and the difference in running costs won't be enough to worry about.


Open to suggestions but it'd need to be something torquey still as that's what I'm after, ideally turbo'd.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

An early Legacy Spec B,I know I keep banging on about it but they are hugely underrated cars but are hugely capable. Had mine two years and it's never gone wrong,outstanding in rain/snow and b roads.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Just look at any of the previous generation hot hatchbacks. 

Skoda Octavia vRS, Seat Leon Cupra and things like that. 

I'd go pick up a MK4 Astra GSi turbo, run it for a year or two and get every penny of my money back.


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## ryan l (Apr 2, 2013)

astra 1.9cdti r888


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

ryan l said:


> astra 1.9cdti r888


For £3.5k?


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Vw bora 1.8t or the v5, actually the Toledo 170 v5


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

SteveTDCi said:


> Vw bora 1.8t or the v5, actually the Toledo 170 v5


Just go one better and get a V6 4Motion - economy / running costs are barely any different and are a whole lot quicker


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

chris3boro said:


> Mileage will be about 200 miles a week, so not huge but that isn't why I am considering the change. Something more usable in rubbish weather, plenty of torque, more seats and a boot, also something of interest


Then quite simply you're mad to buy a diesel.

What about an impreza?


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## Puntoboy (Jun 30, 2007)

More modern turbos don't like small amounts of mileage and with the price of diesel compared to petrol unless you're doing a lot of miles it's not cost effective. 

I nearly made the switch from diesel to petrol a couple of years ago even though I was doing 20k miles per year. It actually worked out cheaper in fuel given the price difference using an average MPG for both cars. Unfortunately, last minute, I changed jobs and bough a 320d Touring instead and I've been with diesel since. Given the choice I would be swapping back to petrol now, but they don't sell a XF Sportbrake with a petrol engine in the UK. 

That being said, one hasn't been mentioned was the company car I chose back in 2008 which I'm sure are cheap now. Fiat Bravo Sport. Same chassis as an Astra, same 1.9 turbo Diesel engine, but much better spec'd than an Astra SRI. I have mine for just under 3 years and it was brilliant, bags of torque, great fun to drive and looked great IMO. The interior was far nicer than the Astra too.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

Surely diesel is much better option than suggesting V6 … even when you do 200miles a week

V6 with steady driving is something around 24mpg so doing 200miles a week you need 1996.8L of fuel for a year and diesel 1.9tdi where real diesel consumption is something around 48mpg you need 998.4L of diesel for a year.

Take resale value of a diesel will be higher as well after few years.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Alzak said:


> Surely diesel is much better option than suggesting V6 … even when you do 200miles a week
> 
> V6 with steady driving is something around 24mpg so doing 200miles a week you need 1996.8L of fuel for a year and diesel 1.9tdi where real diesel consumption is something around 48mpg you need 998.4L of diesel for a year.
> 
> Take resale value of a diesel will be higher as well after few years.


Diesel is more expensive than petrol for starters, then you have more bits to go wrong. At those miles, the difference is negligible.

There are also quite a lot of fuel efficient petrol engines.


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

So the car costs 3.5k (petrol or diesel)
How will running a petrol cost less in terms of fuel?


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## Puntoboy (Jun 30, 2007)

possul said:


> So the car costs 3.5k (petrol or diesel)
> How will running a petrol cost less in terms of fuel?


Depends on the particular engines in question. Petrol is about 5p per litre cheaper than diesel therefore if you can get a modern fuel efficient petrol engined car and are doing shorter journeys then it will work out cheaper. There's lots of variables but it's not a clear cut thing that diesels are cheaper to run than petrol any more.


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## Porkypig (Jun 20, 2012)

I would consider a golf TDI pd130 with the comfort that it won't fall apart and still resell for close to what you paid for it a couple of years down the line. :thumb:


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

RisingPower said:


> Diesel is more expensive than petrol for starters, then you have more bits to go wrong. At those miles, the difference is negligible.
> 
> There are also quite a lot of fuel efficient petrol engines.


Same thing with petrol engine you have few bits which can go bang as well... as with all mechanical parts always something can go something wrong.

When I choosed diesel over petrol saving on running cost was deciding factor is not just fuel cost but saving on insurance was very significant...



possul said:


> So the car costs 3.5k (petrol or diesel)
> How will running a petrol cost less in terms of fuel?


There is no way any sporty petrol car will run more efficient than VAG 1.9tdi ...


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## Porkypig (Jun 20, 2012)

Something like this....

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif.../1/postcode/gu513jb/keywords/gt tdi?logcode=p

Or this

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...postcode/gu513jb/page/1/radius/1501?logcode=p

Don't worry too much about the mileages, just make sure the history is solid (I am sure you would have done that anyway) :thumb:

This one looks tidy... http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...postcode/gu513jb/page/1/radius/1501?logcode=p


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

People look at mpg figures and assume because it does 50mpg its cheaper to run, it isn't. They also miss there claimed MPG by quite a long way and if you don't get them warmed up they are even worse. My A3 TDi would only average 37mpg on a 40 mile round trip to and from work, my Cupra was between 27/29mpg. For £3500 you are likely to get a newer petrol car with less miles, a diesel by comparison will be older and have more miles.

Whilst petrols can have issues, have a look at how much a set of injectors are for the average diesel car, throw in a fuel pump too .... Diesels seem to be heavier on clutches too. I guess we are going OT and not answering the OP's original question, realistically for me diesel and fun do not go hand in hand, even some of the best diesels (BMW 6 cylinders) are not as refined as a straight 6 petrol. Real world running costs won't be dissimilar either.

I would question the durability of the modern diesel engine and that comes from looking after a fleet of 50 cars, over the past 3 years i've slowly been replacing diesels with petrols and off road time is decreasing.

I think the best options are the Fabia VRS, Ibiza FR and Fiesta ZS, although keep away from the ZS if it has a DPF. For me a big engine diesel such as the S Type/407 Coupe/S60 would be a better bet, they will be less stressed and would have been looked after better by fleet companies.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

SteveTDCi said:


> People look at mpg figures and assume because it does 50mpg its cheaper to run, it isn't. They also miss there claimed MPG by quite a long way and if you don't get them warmed up they are even worse. My A3 TDi would only average 37mpg on a 40 mile round trip to and from work, my Cupra was between 27/29mpg. For £3500 you are likely to get a newer petrol car with less miles, a diesel by comparison will be older and have more miles.


I drive Leon Fr 2.0tdi and my mpg is high 40s on 10 mile run(city driving) average about 450-500 miles on full tank of diesel...

If you doing 37mpg in A3 Tdi there is something not right with this ...


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I sold the A3 as it was the dullest thing ever, the Golf GT TDi Mk5 i had before averaged 42/44 mpg and the Focus TDCi 1.8 i had before that averaged 44 mpg, I've covered some 150k in diesels.

Also from having access to demonstrators i can tell you that a 1.6 TDI Leon Ecomotive average 59mpg on the same trip, a VW UP 75ps averaged 66/69mpg, the new Golf Mk7 1.6 TDI averaged 58mpg. Most of this is on the A1 with some urban either end. 

My Mini Cooper S is averaging around 37mpg currently. Diesels by design are not designed to do short trips, they don't get warm for the first 15 odd miles, a petrol is much better or short trips, its also more environmentally friendly  The quickest diesel i've driven is the new A6 3.0 TDI bi turbo, its nice and quick but still a diesel. Interestingly it was showing 22mpg (bare in mind it was being hammered up and down a runway from 0 -135) but the Audi S7 was averaging 14mpg and going quicker, and sounding nicer


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Alzak said:


> Same thing with petrol engine you have few bits which can go bang as well... as with all mechanical parts always something can go something wrong.
> 
> When I choosed diesel over petrol saving on running cost was deciding factor is not just fuel cost but saving on insurance was very significant...
> 
> There is no way any sporty petrol car will run more efficient than VAG 1.9tdi ...


I highly doubt diesel cars are cheaper than petrol to insure. You've just found one that has brought a good quote.

My 2009 Citroen C5 2.0HDi was more to insure than my 335i. Really.

You will save some money of diesel, but not much if you are doing lots of short journeys.

Some of the taxi fleets in Aberdeen are replacing their diesel cars with petrol as they have proven that in the long run petrol is cheaper. That's cars that spend all day, every day on the road. Reasons are as Steve says above.

For £3.5k I'd be looking for the freshest car I could find.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

C5 would be more expensive to insure as there is a much higher chance of the owner wanting to set fire to it :lol:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

SteveTDCi said:


> C5 would be more expensive to insure as there is a much higher chance of the owner wanting to set fire to it :lol:


Fair point. That would only be true if it didn't set itself on fire first.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

the electrics wouldn't work in the first place, having said that someone at work has an 03 plate A Class, you need to drop the engine to get at the starter motor


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## dann2707 (Mar 25, 2011)

Wouldn't bother with a mk1 Focus. They handle great but aren't excellent on fuel at all, you realllllly have to work at it if you want 60mpg+ which isn't fun. Especially when there isn't a 6th gear. Mine was fun and reliable but even when remapped at 144bhp it was a tad boring after a while. Interior was nice and was a great place to be though.

Personally i'd go for the Fabia. I've just made the switch from the mk1 tdci focus to a PD130 ibiza and in terms of the engine it is way more fun! I averaged 83mpg the other day according to the obc. I know it's not deadly accurate but it's still a good indicator that it's doing mega mpg.

They are so easy to tune, parts are easily available and bolt on mods are a plenty. Remap would see you from 130 to 165-170ish and hybrid turbo,fmic and map into the 210bhp range which is amazing for the bhp increase:cost ratio. I've currently got a hybrid in my bedroom waiting to be fitted!


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Alzak said:


> Same thing with petrol engine you have few bits which can go bang as well... as with all mechanical parts always something can go something wrong.
> 
> When I choosed diesel over petrol saving on running cost was deciding factor is not just fuel cost but saving on insurance was very significant...
> 
> There is no way any sporty petrol car will run more efficient than VAG 1.9tdi ...


Dpfs and turbos are standard on petrol cars as with all the extra weight of a diesel engine to contend with?


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