# Sky HD v Virgin HD



## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

For many years now we have had Virgin HD overall its been OK nothing great my mum and brother have Sky HD my brother has the full shabang...yeh £83 a month :doublesho but it looks great.

Our current tv package with Virgin Hd is the XL without movies and sports, we also have phone and broadband, without the phone its £30.50 a month for the tv alone, with a phone line its £24.50 a month and £13.90 for the phone line(website prices), we have had nothing but issues with it switching between SD and HD channels the volume dips, and recently the on demand service has been quite honestly shocking to say the least, they had an engineer out who said we were getting to high a signal so turned it down now now its worse than ever!! 

I went on to Sky.com to compare it and the 6 entertainment packages and ESPN in HD its equals £46.75 per month, i know they have a lot more channels compared to Virgin and the actual HD service is better overall but is it worth the extra money per month.

Would Sky match Virgin's price?


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

What HD programs do you watch?

If it is the BBC/ITV/C4/C5/E4 stuff, it is on FreeSAT and Freeview HD (If you can get it) and you don't have to pay SKY a penny.

If you want Movies and Sports in HD then SKY is your best option.


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

Gruffs said:


> What HD programs do you watch?
> 
> If it is the BBC/ITV/C4/C5/E4 stuff, it is on FreeSAT and Freeview HD (If you can get it) and you don't have to pay SKY a penny.
> 
> If you want Movies and Sports in HD then SKY is your best option.


Just be careful with Sky, we havent got the full on package - but it seems to be getting dearer & dearer......The other month they said we had gone over our interent usage, even though we hardly use it....

Turns out, they'd pretty much messaged everyone the same (Well all our friends at least!) just money spinning!

Plus, do you really wanna put money in murdochs pocket :lol:


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## throwa62start (Aug 1, 2011)

Grizzle, have a look on ebay and look out for their partner deals, which people sell from time to time. I got one of these last October and I got the whole Sky+ HD package for £25 per month for the year!!! I know it seemed to good to be true, but you get given a website and a code to put in and boom you have it all for £25 per month for a year... Ours is running out in Oct so I'll be looking for the 'partner' deals again in October.. Remember you can always have it for 12months in your name then cancel in the 11th month then take a new contract out in the Mrs name (as sky don't seem to have cottoned onto that yet) then you'll always get the best deal as a 'new' customer....

Hope that helps?


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Have a go with a TiVo Virgin Media box. I contemplated the same move, and the Mrs is ex Sky, and the TiVo box knocks spots off it quite comprehensively.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Grizzle said:


> i know they have a lot more channels compared to Virgin and the actual HD service is better overall but is it worth the extra money per month.


How do you mean the HD service is better overall? AFAIK, Virgin and Sky transmit in 1080i and 720p depending on the source material. We switched from Sky a year ago and there was no change in the picture quality. The on-demand HD from Virgin is a winner from us, especially with the extra content from the TiVo.

Sky definitely do have more content, so if there's something you're missing on Virgin, then the only way will be to get it from Sky, but even with the premium channels, Virgin works out cheaper. Plus you never pay for repairs which caught us out with Sky


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

OvlovMike said:


> Have a go with a TiVo Virgin Media box. I contemplated the same move, and the Mrs is ex Sky, and the TiVo box knocks spots off it quite comprehensively.


Yeah, we're very happy with out TiVo. We got it before Christmas because we'd been an old TiVo user in the past. In April they gave us a second TiVo for free along with free multiroom which was a definite sweetener


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## Tricky Red (Mar 3, 2007)

As an interface, I think that SKY knocks spots off Virgin. Mum and Dad have the V+ HD thing and the interface is so slow and clunky I found myself wanting to get back home to use my trusty SKY.


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## hotwaxxx (Jul 12, 2007)

Tricky Red said:


> As an interface, I think that SKY knocks spots off Virgin. Mum and Dad have the V+ HD thing and the interface is so slow and clunky I found myself wanting to get back home to use my trusty SKY.


True. My cousin has Virgin HD and the interface is awful and the delay in changing channels/searching the info bar etc is absolutely shocking. I too was delighted that I had Sky at home.

Definitely has put me off Virgin TV although the TiVo system is meant to be good.

On an aside, we had Virgin Broadband installed three weeks ago and its amazing. I don't get 100MB as advertised but I regularly hit 80MB on the speedtest site which is good enough for me - considering I got 4MB from Zen for double the price!!!


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

SteveyG said:


> How do you mean the HD service is better overall? AFAIK, Virgin and Sky transmit in 1080i and 720p depending on the source material. We switched from Sky a year ago and there was no change in the picture quality. The on-demand HD from Virgin is a winner from us, especially with the extra content from the TiVo.
> 
> Sky definitely do have more content, so if there's something you're missing on Virgin, then the only way will be to get it from Sky, but even with the premium channels, Virgin works out cheaper. Plus you never pay for repairs which caught us out with Sky


Channels seems crisp and clear on Sky (and no its not my TV) the Virgin interface is terrible so outdated its unreal.


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## Stevoraith (Mar 15, 2008)

I found the opposite- I have V+HD and the in-laws have Sky+ HD.

I always find the Virgin menu system much easier to navigate. I guess it's what you are used to :thumb:


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Tricky Red said:


> As an interface, I think that SKY knocks spots off Virgin. Mum and Dad have the V+ HD thing and the interface is so slow and clunky I found myself wanting to get back home to use my trusty SKY.


Been addressed hugely with TiVo, to the point where the Sky HD box just looks like an overdressed and overpriced paperweight. I agree, the old Virgin interface was very dated (although it still worked! It was just very old school) but it's a million miles ahead - it's an old phrase in technology and one that's regularly overused but I think 'Revolutionary, as opposed to evolutionary' really truly describes the Virgin Media TiVo service.

http://tivo.virginmedia.com/

Review:
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/pvrs/1284925/virgin-media-tivo-1tb

Worth noting that the Red Button and BBC catch-up service has been resolved as well, so you can scroll-back on the Beeb shows too.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

hotwaxxx said:


> True. My cousin has Virgin HD and the interface is awful and the delay in changing channels/searching the info bar etc is absolutely shocking. I too was delighted that I had Sky at home.
> 
> Definitely has put me off Virgin TV although the TiVo system is meant to be good.
> 
> On an aside, we had Virgin Broadband installed three weeks ago and its amazing. I don't get 100MB as advertised but I regularly hit 80MB on the speedtest site which is good enough for me - considering I got 4MB from Zen for double the price!!!


Get a trial on the TiVo then - you won't be disappointed. I never really found the old interface particularly bad, just dreadfully slow at times, but the new one is leaps and bounds on from where it was. You'll get a decent discount if you've got everything else with them too - although the major gripes I can find that hold any weight are the lack of Sky Atlantic (oh, dear me) and the reduced number of Movies and Sports channels, although the big ones are covered.



Grizzle said:


> Channels seems crisp and clear on Sky (and no its not my TV) the Virgin interface is terrible so outdated its unreal.


You had it configured incorrectly then, put simply. I've run Sky HD and V HD, V+ HD and TiVo boxes side-by-side and there's sod all difference (certainly none appreciable) on a Panasonic 50" G20.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

OvlovMike said:


> You had it configured incorrectly then, put simply. I've run Sky HD and V HD, V+ HD and TiVo boxes side-by-side and there's sod all difference (certainly none appreciable) on a Panasonic 50" G20.


Really?? i have the same TV its set up fine actually


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## Tricky Red (Mar 3, 2007)

OvlovMike said:


> Been addressed hugely with TiVo, to the point where the Sky HD box just looks like an overdressed and overpriced paperweight. I agree, the old Virgin interface was very dated (although it still worked! It was just very old school) but it's a million miles ahead - it's an old phrase in technology and one that's regularly overused but I think 'Revolutionary, as opposed to evolutionary' really truly describes the Virgin Media TiVo service.
> 
> http://tivo.virginmedia.com/
> 
> ...


I had the football on the other night and didn't pause it. Went upstairs for 15 minutes or so, came down and flicked on record. Programme then finished. Went into recordings and it had only recorded from where I started the recording unlike SKY that records from the start of the programme (as long as you haven't changed channels). So missed my teams game; Sh*te.


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## bigmcclarron (Jun 11, 2011)

Get the TiVo, I've played with it and had to install it a few times and it's really good, and it's only going to get quicker and better! You will find sky boxes a lot slicker to use cos of it's GUI but they fall over a LOT! From memory most of their boxes run on a very basic form of windows 98, even their HD boxes.
The other problem with sky is mr Murdock! Can't stand giving him a penny unless I have to! And I do have to cos I have sky sports on my virgin lol!
But going back to op, surprised the virgin engineer turned the signal down, that normally would result in less quality like you said you got, to have high signal is surely better? Look at sky, the high the signal the dish is getting the better!
As for virgin anytime well yeah that is slow for everyone, but like I said get TiVo and once they start upping te signals etc it will only get quicker!!


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Grizzle said:


> Really?? i have the same TV its set up fine actually


I'm talking about the Virgin box. You don't just plug the HDMI lead in and get HD on it...


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Tricky Red said:


> I had the football on the other night and didn't pause it. Went upstairs for 15 minutes or so, came down and flicked on record. Programme then finished. Went into recordings and it had only recorded from where I started the recording unlike SKY that records from the start of the programme (as long as you haven't changed channels). So missed my teams game; Sh*te.


You could have rewound it? Why would it want to record from before you pressed record?

Common sense option IMO - if I want to record part of a program (a specific feature or part of Top Gear to show the wife) then I'll do that - otherwise just rewind it to the beginning and press record.

Neither system is 'perfect' for everybody, but if that's all you can find wrong and it's '****e', god help you when you come to watch Sky's On Demand service!


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

bigmcclarron said:


> But going back to op, surprised the virgin engineer turned the signal down, that normally would result in less quality like you said you got, to have high signal is surely better? Look at sky, the high the signal the dish is getting the better!


There are various options and strengths that can be detrimental if too high. Upstream voltage was too high on mine due to heat fatigue on some of the external components and this caused broadband dropouts. Also use a piece of kit on the back of my downstairs TiVo box as it's running a bit strong apparently. I'm not a cable networking expert, but have a basic understanding.


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## edsel (Aug 22, 2008)

Moved from Virgin to Sky last year. The HDTV programe selection and customer service at sky is far superior to virgin. The telephone package was better with the only downside is slower broadband but got used to it.
The only other niggle is that the box and modem belong to you and as a result if you have issues with it out of warranty its down to you. No going back to Virgin unless they get the TV package together!

Almost forgot saved £30 a month


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## MK1Campaign (Mar 27, 2007)

The only reason Sky HD looks better is because there standard definition is so poor.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

MK1Campaign said:


> The only reason Sky HD looks better is because there standard definition is so poor.


Indeed, massively overcompressed to free up bandwidth so they don't have to move stuff around, because as simple technically as that is, the potential fallout is incredible.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

OvlovMike said:


> I'm talking about the Virgin box. You don't just plug the HDMI lead in and get HD on it...


Please dont insult me mate! Really dont!!


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

edsel said:


> Moved from Virgin to Sky last year. The HDTV programe selection and customer service at sky is far superior to virgin. The telephone package was better with the only downside is slower broadband but got used to it.
> The only other niggle is that the box and modem belong to you and as a result if you have issues with it out of warranty its down to you. No going back to Virgin unless they get the TV package together!
> 
> Almost forgot saved £30 a month


About the first sensible post made answering my question, instead of insulting me about setting my V+box up


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

We work with Sky and so they are best ;-)

Ahem - we don't have Sky at home though... Just don't watch much TV!


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## bigmcclarron (Jun 11, 2011)

OvlovMike said:


> There are various options and strengths that can be detrimental if too high. Upstream voltage was too high on mine due to heat fatigue on some of the external components and this caused broadband dropouts. Also use a piece of kit on the back of my downstairs TiVo box as it's running a bit strong apparently. I'm not a cable networking expert, but have a basic understanding.


This is helpful for me! So could this explain some of the issue my customers have with the on demand stuff? I have one customer who lives next door to another, one has the quickest on demand I have seen and the neighbour is extremely slow! Both new boxes???? I don't instal virgin but I do install them into home cinema rooms, hence why I have no clue!


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## Tricky Red (Mar 3, 2007)

OvlovMike said:


> You could have rewound it? Why would it want to record from before you pressed record?
> 
> Common sense option IMO - if I want to record part of a program (a specific feature or part of Top Gear to show the wife) then I'll do that - otherwise just rewind it to the beginning and press record.
> 
> Neither system is 'perfect' for everybody, but if that's all you can find wrong and it's '****e', god help you when you come to watch Sky's On Demand service!


I wrote sh*te as an expression of the frustration of missing the game. I had already switched channels, so couldn't have rewound it.


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

Depends on what you've always had and personal preference really, we've just upgraded to sky HD and are really pleased with it, we've always had sky and have the full package with phone and broadband and were offered a good deal on an upgrade to a the HD package so thought we'd take the plunge, most of the programs we watch are on BBC, Channel 4 and major sky channels such as sky atlantic and sky sports and of course all these are broadcast in HD so the HD channels get watched the majority of the time.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Tricky Red said:


> I had the football on the other night and didn't pause it. Went upstairs for 15 minutes or so, came down and flicked on record. Programme then finished. Went into recordings and it had only recorded from where I started the recording unlike SKY that records from the start of the programme (as long as you haven't changed channels). So missed my teams game; Sh*te.


On the TiVo? If so, something isn't right. It records the whole program from the start even if you press record 5 minutes from the end.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

OvlovMike said:


> There are various options and strengths that can be detrimental if too high. Upstream voltage was too high on mine due to heat fatigue on some of the external components and this caused broadband dropouts. Also use a piece of kit on the back of my downstairs TiVo box as it's running a bit strong apparently. I'm not a cable networking expert, but have a basic understanding.


That's not really the problem. If the signal strength is too high, the signals will clip which reduces the dynamic range of the signal. The error correction can correct when the signal strength is slightly too high, but appears like it's slowing everything down or dropping frames, but eventually the data can no longer be recovered.



Grizzle said:


> Please dont insult me mate! Really dont!!


Did you have the V+ box set to output 720p or 1080i? Internal or external scaling?


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

SteveyG said:


> That's not really the problem. If the signal strength is too high, the signals will clip which reduces the dynamic range of the signal. The error correction can correct when the signal strength is slightly too high, but appears like it's slowing everything down or dropping frames, but eventually the data can no longer be recovered.
> 
> Did you have the V+ box set to output 720p or 1080i? Internal or external scaling?


Yeah, I'm not massively technical on cable infrastructure so I only get what I pick up and can demonstrate.

And thank you - I bit my tongue because I'd have just lost my rag, I don't know where you'd get insult from asking if the box was configured correctly but hey, far be it me - a home cinema enthusiast having run all these configurations side-by-side so that I can determine whether I'm losing out by going to VM - to question a random individual on the internet whom I have no background on, who suggests something that I believe to be incorrect, based on experience I have to the contrary.

The mind boggles as to how you drew insult and anger from that - I dread to think how you behave on the road if someone cuts you up.

If you want any technical guff as to how there's sod all difference between the two in terms of picture quality, then the only difference is that MPEG-2 is used by VM (as far as I know, they're planning a potential move to MPEG-4 but not sure when that is or if they have already) and Sky use MPEG-4. MPEG-4 isn't really capable of any better picture quality, it just uses less bandwidth than MPEG-2 at the same quality. This is important to Sky as I don't believe (unless there's a million layers of commercial crap between them) they own the satellites - they lease the bandwidth. Virgin actually own their infrastructure, so they don't pay per transponder, per se. VM's move is going to be purely to facilitate space for additional services, but as yet they're not as closely restricted.


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## Normg002 (Aug 18, 2010)

davies20 said:


> Just be careful with Sky, we havent got the full on package - but it seems to be getting dearer & dearer......The other month they said we had gone over our interent usage, even though we hardly use it....
> 
> Turns out, they'd pretty much messaged everyone the same (Well all our friends at least!) just money spinning!
> 
> Plus, do you really wanna put money in murdochs pocket :lol:


Just seen this.

We also got this from them, as well as throttled speeds. Fought them over it (data protection act - got our usage logs). Turned out it was all BS as we expected. Now we've got the full sky package at half price for a year, and they will be installing sky multi room when we move FOC.

Don't let them mug you off mate.

OP, apologies for hijack.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Normg002 said:


> We also got this from them, as well as throttled speeds. Fought them over it (data protection act - got our usage logs). Turned out it was all BS as we expected. Now we've got the full sky package at half price for a year, and they will be installing sky multi room when we move FOC.


That's pretty shocking - it wouldn't surprise me if it was an underhand attempt to push people onto another service though...

I know Virgin don't have the best reputation in the world but they've always been really good to me, and when I call up they're good at going through my usage with me so I can work out whether it's worth downgrading or not.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

OvlovMike said:


> And thank you - I bit my tongue because I'd have just lost my rag, I don't know where you'd get insult from asking if the box was configured correctly but hey, far be it me - a home cinema enthusiast having run all these configurations side-by-side so that I can determine whether I'm losing out by going to VM - to question a random individual on the internet whom I have no background on, who suggests something that I believe to be incorrect, based on experience I have to the contrary.
> 
> The mind boggles as to how you drew insult and anger from that - I dread to think how you behave on the road if someone cuts you up.


Who was that for?


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## Tricky Red (Mar 3, 2007)

SteveyG said:


> On the TiVo? If so, something isn't right. It records the whole program from the start even if you press record 5 minutes from the end.


No, it wasn't the TIVO unit, it was the older V+ box.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

SteveyG said:


> Who was that for?


Not you - the post you'd quoted.


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

Grizzle said:


> Would Sky match Virgin's price?


Unlikely, like you say it's a better service.

One of the advantages Virgin is banging on about atm is their on demand service. Well, if you connect your SKY+ HD box to a router you get a huge library of on demand programming as well. It also has a 1TB hard drive built in for storing recorded programming. Also, if you have an Xbox with Xbox live you can watch your Sky service through it - so kids can watch Sky in their bedroom for example.

I have Sky HD and my folks have Virgin HD. No way I would change.


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

OvlovMike said:


> You had it configured incorrectly then, put simply. I've run Sky HD and V HD, V+ HD and TiVo boxes side-by-side and there's sod all difference (certainly none appreciable) on a Panasonic 50" G20.


He didn't say interference, he said the interface was terrible.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Superspec said:


> He didn't say interference, he said the interface was terrible.


The conversation (or tail end of) before that about Sky being clear is the general picture.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Superspec said:


> One of the advantages Virgin is banging on about atm is their on demand service. Well, if you connect your SKY+ HD box to a router you get a huge library of on demand programming as well.


From experience, the on demand service of sky is very poor compared to that offered by Virgin. Sky just don't have the same infrastructure to support proper interactive and on-demand services, it also relies on an ADSL broadband service or scheduled timeshifted transmissions, so it will never appear as if it was stored on the HDD. I think the only advantage to having sky is the extra channels, everything else comes second, so if you need the channels that virgin do not offer then Sky is the choice for you :thumb:


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

SteveyG said:


> That's not really the problem. If the signal strength is too high, the signals will clip which reduces the dynamic range of the signal. The error correction can correct when the signal strength is slightly too high, but appears like it's slowing everything down or dropping frames, but eventually the data can no longer be recovered.
> 
> Did you have the V+ box set to output 720p or 1080i? Internal or external scaling?


set to 1080i, the signal was originally very high infact the highest the engineer has seen for a long time, the picture was fine but the sound kept being clipped, he turned it down and within hours it was worse than ever, the sound was still being clipped but now the picture was being clipped also and the on demand was awful halfway through any programme it would stop or the box would freeze completely.



OvlovMike said:


> Yeah, I'm not massively technical on cable infrastructure so I only get what I pick up and can demonstrate.
> 
> And thank you - I bit my tongue because I'd have just lost my rag, I don't know where you'd get insult from asking if the box was configured correctly but hey, far be it me - a home cinema enthusiast having run all these configurations side-by-side so that I can determine whether I'm losing out by going to VM - to question a random individual on the internet whom I have no background on, who suggests something that I believe to be incorrect, based on experience I have to the contrary.
> 
> The mind boggles as to how you drew insult and anger from that - I dread to think how you behave on the road if someone cuts you up.


Dont patronize me


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## essjay (Mar 27, 2007)

bigmcclarron said:


> This is helpful for me! So could this explain some of the issue my customers have with the on demand stuff? I have one customer who lives next door to another, one has the quickest on demand I have seen and the neighbour is extremely slow! Both new boxes???? I don't instal virgin but I do install them into home cinema rooms, hence why I have no clue!


Any problems with VM equipment ask away, been at VM (in one guise or another) for 16 years. Worked on Service, Network now in the National Headend

Been in my current role 6 years Video On Demand support engineer.

There could be may factors why your customers cable is slow, as already mentioned heat/cold, could be a damaged drop cable or faulty component in the cabinet. This maybe causing suck out at a particular frequency hence it struggles with the signal. Could be a faulty box.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Grizzle said:


> set to 1080i, the signal was originally very high infact the highest the engineer has seen for a long time, the picture was fine but the sound kept being clipped, he turned it down and within hours it was worse than ever, the sound was still being clipped but now the picture was being clipped also and the on demand was awful halfway through any programme it would stop or the box would freeze completely.


Then there may be a more intrinsic fault either outside your door, with the STB or in the box at the top of the road. I've spent most of my time looking at the cable broadband side of things, the TV stuff is relatively alien until it comes out of the HDMI port from my point of view.



Grizzle said:


> Dont patronize me


Grow up, for ****'s sake. Anyone would think you were 15 or Bailes. I've tried helping and I've been met with nothing but hostility. If you've got an issue with me I suggest you find yourself the ignore button, the attitude you've displayed towards me has been completely uncalled for.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Grizzle said:


> set to 1080i,


If you still have the box, just try setting the output to 720p. Some TV's didn't get on well with the old V+ boxes at 1080i.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

SteveyG said:


> If you still have the box, just try setting the output to 720p. Some TV's didn't get on well with the old V+ boxes at 1080i.


If it's the same TV as mine, I'm not sure. I had the Samsung V+ box and it was fine, both wired directly and more recently through an AV Receiver...


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