# How smooth should primer be ?



## steely dan (Dec 13, 2007)

All prep work done on my car . 
I've wet flatted the last coat of primer filler using 800 grit but am a little concerned that it is too smooth with little key for the base coat .
What's the opinion ?


----------



## robdcfc (Sep 17, 2012)

More than adequate pal.


----------



## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

we usually rip apart primer with 320 then 500 ...base ...tricky colours we finish on 800 ... I also sand my blends with 800 to ...so you will be fine !


----------



## steely dan (Dec 13, 2007)

Thank you both. 
Paint should be here tomorrow so knowing that the primer is OK let's me get on with it.
Cheers


----------



## supernova-dw (Apr 26, 2014)

Yep as has been said will be perfectly fine. Personally I use 600 Usually but as with most things everyone has their own different methods and approaches.

Post up some pics of the work in progress anyhow


----------



## steely dan (Dec 13, 2007)

supernova-dw said:


> Yep as has been said will be perfectly fine. Personally I use 600 Usually but as with most things everyone has their own different methods and approaches.
> 
> Post up some pics of the work in progress anyhow


Well, the base coat went very well . It required four coats to get uniform and total coverage of all the areas repaired. I was more than happy.


However ...... Shot the 2K lacquer today and am very unhappy ! 
My supplier couldn't supply Upol which has always been my lacquer of choice and could only give me a Polish brand called Novol. I had used the Novol primers in 1K and 2 K and had no problems with them so decided to go ahead . The lacquer would just not flow from my 1.5 tip gun when mixed 2/1 as instructions and adding the slightest 2k thinners caused it to run . I tried many permutations of gun pressure , fan and flow but it just would not work for me . The hardner was a fast version , which was advised by the Novol Rep , but I think it was too fast . The end result is very heavy orange peel and several light runs . 
I'll leave it for three days and then wet flat it with 1500 and then 2000 by hand (  ) and then machine polish with probably 3M fast cut .
Unless you can offer any other advice for a better compound ?
One good thing is that the colour match is very good but I didn't expect this .


----------



## supernova-dw (Apr 26, 2014)

Looks good mate!

The problem with the lacquer is most probably in my opinion due to using a 1.5 setup, I tend to use 1.2 to 1.3 and get far less orange peel.

Anyhow no major worries as of course you can flat and polish it back.
Post some more pics up if you've got time


----------



## steely dan (Dec 13, 2007)

Thanks for the encouragement :thumb:
I've just been out and looked at it again and I'm confident that it will flat out OK with care. 
It's annoying as I have been restoring the car for nearly 20 months now and wanted to do everything myself and have done so far so I guess I get more than annoyed when it doesn't go to plan. 
As for the car , I've replaced inner/outer and central sills, inner and outer wheel arches, floors x4 ,wheel tubs, inner wings ,trumpets and mounting bands ....
As the bodywork progressed I've completely restored and renewed the mechanics as they were removed and checked.
There are a thousand photos but here is the rear undwerside , the front has been done to the same standard. 

I'll let you all know how it works out.
Thanks
PS You're probably right about the gun , my 1.2 gun had developed a leak at the gland for the flow adjustment and couldn't be used .


----------



## Hamster12 (Aug 13, 2014)

That looks sweet, nice job.


----------



## Aaran (Sep 18, 2007)

sounds like the clear is pretty thin along with a big tip, try spraying a grip coat next time and see if that helps you out  

i dont use anything smaller than a 1.4mm in my devilbiss gravity gti, only ever get slight peel in it


----------



## steely dan (Dec 13, 2007)

Well I spent a very unhappy 10 hours wet flatting the surface with 1200, 1500 and then 2000 , what a royal PITA...........
I then compounded all the fresh lacquer with 3M fast cut on a soft sponge .
It came up good but if you look close you can still see a lot of small craters caused by the spatter of the lacquer .
I away for a week but when I return I'll wet flat it all again with 1500/2000/3000 and compound it again to either eliminate the pinholes or lessen them as much as I can.
The lacquer was a real disappointment and after speaking to the local bodyshop guys today the Novol brand is not their first choice ......or second !
Ho Hum .
I could only photograph the sides of the car in the garage so the exposure is all wrong but I hope you can see where it is going.


----------



## Aaran (Sep 18, 2007)

you can re-clear it if needs be, sand it all flat with p1000, then clean it thoroughly and shoot 2 more coats of clear over it. test a small bit first but it should not give you any problems doing it. 

if you want to save time and you have a da sander/polsiher of some sort ( a rupes or electric/air random orbit sander) then just flat the car with p1500 and buy a single 3m trizact disk in p3000 grit. these last for ages and will remove p1500 marks no problems and will save you hours hand flatting with finer grades on a block and will make the polishing go 4x as fast, just use a block for the 1500 stage


----------



## toddy23 (Jun 16, 2012)

You can even re clear over 500 sanding as long as you don't break through done it a few times


----------



## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

Yup You can go a course as 400 !! tried and tested .. I would buzz over with 800 on da dry perfect for the job ....just remember the clear bellow must be fully gassed off or it can lead to de-lamination in the future !


Tommy


----------



## andyrst (Apr 6, 2009)

sand with 400 an reclear?? surly it will sink after a few weeks?


----------



## toddy23 (Jun 16, 2012)

I re cleared the mini I was working on and the finish you get by doing this is totally flat,I went to my brothers few weeks ago and had a look at the mini which must be 12 months when it painted it and it still looks totally flat and shiney as how I left it,,,,,have a look at flow coat on google,I also did this on my mates light gold Harley Davidson and same result


----------



## toddy23 (Jun 16, 2012)

Usely with any job spirit wipe tells you how bad things are like is your repairs totally flat and ripple free,or fine sanding marks scratches etc,if you seen these you wouldn't carry on with the painting as you will see them in the end result


----------



## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

andyrst said:


> sand with 400 an reclear?? surly it will sink after a few weeks?


Andy Why would this sink?

It's the same as using direct gloss 2k over keyed surface

I usually do 400 or 600 on all custom stuff never ever had a sinkage scratch /mark

Tommy


----------



## andyrst (Apr 6, 2009)

Learn something new everyday, thanks guys


----------



## Aaran (Sep 18, 2007)

just be careful with coarser grades, if you remove to much clear or worse strike through to the base the thinners in the new clear being laid can eat through that film and cause it to wrinkle badly. been there and i have the teeshirt. nowt worse than having to strip off an entire area to re-prime and go form there again


----------



## steely dan (Dec 13, 2007)

Thanks for all your very helpful replies lads.
Sitting here in the hot sun on my third beer (I'm on holiday ) I think I'll go the 1500 wet flatting route and then use a 3000 trizact disc on an air da I have.
I looked at u tube video on the trizact discs and they seem to be the fast alternative to hours of wet sanding .
I shot four good coats of lacquer on the car so should have enough to prevent breakthrough.
I was very fed up with the results of the lacquer but after this short break am itching to get back on it next week.
I'll keep you posted .
Thanks again for your invaluable help , hic


----------



## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

Yup be careful that you don't cut through!

If you do... use spot repair primer over the effected area will stop solvent attack as Aran mentioned 

But good luck and great work for a novice WELL DONE ! 

Remember wax oil inside of those rear arches etc 


Tommy


----------



## toddy23 (Jun 16, 2012)

When I re clear I put a light coat on first then two normal wet coats


----------



## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

mr paint said:


> Remember wax oil inside of those rear arches etc
> 
> Tommy


After painting! :thumb:


----------



## steely dan (Dec 13, 2007)

Right , back from holiday and back into it.
I'm afraid my bottle went when i tried a 3000 grit pad on my DA . I got it from a ( the ) local crash repair shop. It wasn't a 3M Trizact one but I just wanted to see how I felt using it on a scrap bonnet at the same place .
So dived in and wet flatted the damned thing again using a solid block with 3000 and then 2000 .
I haven't machine compounded it yet as my arms are too sore to hold the machine .....but it certainly has much less sign of the craters I spoke of . 
I'll post up some photos one compounded and polished .
I thank you all again for your help and words of encouragement . 
Re the waxoyl . I've got ten litres to inject into it and a selection of adapted guns to get it into all the nooks and crannies . I also drilled several new holes and grommeted them whilst doing all the steel repairs . One other tip I have is to inject warm Bar and Chain ( Chainsaw ) oil into the box sections prior to spraying warm Waxoyl. It creeps down into the sandwich area between flanges .
Cheers 
Don


----------



## Aaran (Sep 18, 2007)

mix white spirits into clear waxoyl to thin it down to milk like consistency then spray that in (this will and does run in between all the seams subject to you firing it in a high pressure), leave it a few hours then just fire in non thinned warm waxoyl


----------



## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

Will also make it burn faster in an insurance claim HAAHHAHAHHAHAHa


----------



## Scoobycarl (Aug 13, 2011)

steely dan said:


> Right , back from holiday and back into it.
> I'm afraid my bottle went when i tried a 3000 grit pad on my DA . I got it from a ( the ) local crash repair shop. It wasn't a 3M Trizact one but I just wanted to see how I felt using it on a scrap bonnet at the same place .
> So dived in and wet flatted the damned thing again using a solid block with 3000 and then 2000 .
> I haven't machine compounded it yet as my arms are too sore to hold the machine .....but it certainly has much less sign of the craters I spoke of .
> ...


A 3000 trizact will have little affect mate on fresh clear mate or even oe clear for that matter ! They are used after the 1500 has got rid of the imperfections you need gone,all they do is remove the deep 1500 scratches that are hard to polish up and leaves a smooth semi gloss 3000 scratch that is way way easier to polish ! On dark colours i go 1500 then 2000 with paper then 3000 trizact / norton foam pad on da but use an interface pad on da with the 3000


----------

