# Remap or tuning box?



## rob_wilson1 (Apr 25, 2010)

Morning all,

Recently changed to a focus estate with arrival of our new baby. After owning for a couple of weeks I feel the 1.8tdci engine could pull better and would benefit from a remap - plus any mpg gains would be a bonus. 

I did see a thread earlier in the year about a focus being remapped at AMD and recall high praise with the results. 

My question is whats the difference between an engine remap and just snapping in a tuning box and which one is the better option to go for?

Thanks for your afvice in advance :driver:


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## J1ODY A (Nov 28, 2008)

Hi, I had an 08 plate 1.8tdci Focus remapped at AMD & was very happy with the service plus results (I have a thread here somewhere) but the mpg improved by 2-3, bhp increase about 20. 

Having said that I now have a 2.0cdti Astra, being brand new I didnt want a remap (as they are permanent) so opted for a DTUK red tuning box, it is a plug and play system with a dial on so can change between about 14 settings to find what suits. The results are comparable to a remap with main difference making the powercurve smoother delivering performance evenly, cost wise marginally cheaper. Again mpg increases are 2-3, and my astra has gone from 165psi to 215! (Results differ per car per setting, I.e. you can make smaller increases).

I would investigate DTUK & I believe Bluefin has a good reputation in Ford circles (ffoc.com).

IMO if I were creating a race toy then I would remap, for a daily drive where you may want to turn to standard or alter the power for your driving style I would go for tuning box... but a tried and tested one.

Sent from my GT-P5110 using Tapatalk 2


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

Are tuning boxes often cheaper? If tuning boxes can offer what remaps can then go for them but I'd have though remaps could push things a little more but still safely (depending on the tuner). I can't see why you would want to take a tuning box out though if you're getting more power and mpg?

I'd be tempted by the box as you can always sell it on afterwards. However, the decision is yours.


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## herbiedacious (Sep 27, 2010)

Got my tuning box 2nd hand from ebay,transformed the car. Mpg and power both improved. Another thing worth considering is an egr blanking plate.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## rob_wilson1 (Apr 25, 2010)

Thanks for your advice the tuning box does sound a good way to go being plug in and go and can be removed easily and as mentioned sold on if needed. Im not after making it a racer just a nice smooth car pulling all through the range.
Thanks for the tip J10DY ill have a look on the focus forum and research. 

Any focus drivers on here who have tried a tuning box out of curiosity?


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## ianrobbo1 (Feb 13, 2007)

I've a tuning box on my 05 fiesta, that was showing signs of old age, low power bad mpg, the tuning box brought it back up to the standard "as new" bhp, and improved the mpg as well, I was then toasted for being happy with that, rather than getting major bhp etc, the box is a cheap good option for those of us that just want a "bit more" go and a few more mpg, if I could afford to get a re map, I'm not sure I would, as taking the bhp to far can have adverse effects on the ancillaries such as clutch etc, I'm sure an "expert" on such, will come along and shoot MY opinions full of holes, but as said the box can be removed and sold on if your not happy with it or want to go the remap route good luck!!:thumb:


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## danwel (Feb 18, 2007)

I've got a handheld device on mine that allows you to upload multiple custom maps like valet mode,economy mode and even anti theft!

Plus it also comes with the software if you're comfortable to tune your on car as your mods increase! I'm not comfortable tbh but i got a custom E Tune off a guy in the states as his guinea pig for the forum.


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## Gizmo68 (Mar 27, 2008)

I ran a Dragon Digital tuning box on a PD105 Golf, it improved the pick up no end BUT it was not completely smooth in its delivery… but @ £35 (eBay) I cannot complain.

It does not compare at all with a decent remap (Shark Performance in my case) …. but these are much dearer.

Tuning boxes can be removed and sold on when you sell the car, a remap is lost forever, but the remap (providing it is a decent one) will always be better than the box.

I would buy a (sub £100) digital box again, but anymore than that then it would be a trip back to Shark.


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## putzie (Mar 19, 2012)

from experince i would stay away from tuning boxes and go for a remap as the problem with the tuning boxes is the the car's ecu tends to try and retune its self around the box causing other problems , from what i can make out a lot of the boxes just tell the car its running a lot colder than it is so it makes them run richer hence more power


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## heavyd (Jun 11, 2006)

All tuning boxes do is alter the fuel rail pressure, the ECU compensates, and adjusts everything else the best it can.
Remaps do the fuel pressure, boost and timing, so all in all a remap is a lot better and safer for the engine, as long as you get a decent one:thumb:


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## snowz (Nov 14, 2012)

heavyd said:


> All tuning boxes do is alter the fuel rail pressure, the ECU compensates, and adjusts everything else the best it can.
> Remaps do the fuel pressure, boost and timing, so all in all a remap is a lot better and safer for the engine, as long as you get a decent one:thumb:


Wrong wrong wrong!!!

Check your facts.

I run a Dtuk Crdt tuning box with alters both fuel pressure and boost pressure!

All this talk about remaps are safer and better than boxes are rubbish!

There are plenty of tuning firms out there that offer both remaps or boxes.

Ive had both remaps and boxes with no problems,


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## snowz (Nov 14, 2012)

putzie said:


> from experince i would stay away from tuning boxes and go for a remap as the problem with the tuning boxes is the the car's ecu tends to try and retune its self around the box causing other problems , from what i can make out a lot of the boxes just tell the car its running a lot colder than it is so it makes them run richer hence more power


Wrong also.

People need to check their facts and info before advising others wrongly.

What bad experiences have you had of a box, was it from a reputable tuning firm or an ebay specail?


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## nick3814 (Dec 31, 2010)

Remap every time! How can you trust a tuning box? You've no idea what's its really done! There's a reason they are cheap, you only ever get what you pay for. I would much sooner trust my pride and joy to a reputable tuner with a rolling road and all the kit to show exactly what the map is doing to the engine, be it boost pressure, fueling etc. 

Had my Renaultsport 250 mapped a couple of months ago and would no more plug in a tuning box than I would wash it with a broom, just my two pennies😎


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## snowz (Nov 14, 2012)

nick3814 said:


> Remap every time! How can you trust a tuning box? You've no idea what's its really done! There's a reason they are cheap, you only ever get what you pay for. I would much sooner trust my pride and joy to a reputable tuner with a rolling road and all the kit to show exactly what the map is doing to the engine, be it boost pressure, fueling etc.
> 
> Had my Renaultsport 250 mapped a couple of months ago and would no more plug in a tuning box than I would wash it with a broom, just my two pennies😎


Are you comparing a cheap tuning box off ebay against a specialist tuning box off a reputable and recognised tuning firm as i dont think my £400 box is that cheap!
Remaps or boxes both have there places, 
For a stage 1 tune you could go for either but for a stage 2 upwards then remaps the only real way to go with set up on a rolling road.
But for a simple increase in bhp and small mpg gains then a box is as good as a map.

The thousands of other people across dozens of car forums who have tuning boxes and are pleased with the results must all be wrong then, including me?

Decent dedicated tuning boxes arent just random chips and wires there is a bit more to them nowadays and comparing a £30 ebay box to a £400+ box isnt a true comparison


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

I was told that anyone with a computer knowledge could program a tuning box or write a remap and not really know the damage they MAY do to your engine , And that it's best to use a company that specialise in car tuning and have a trackable record of what they do , that's why evolution chips did my CLK and AMD did my Jaguar XF both without any problems , if I ever own another diesel then it would be a remap over the tuning box .


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## BoostJunky86 (Oct 25, 2012)

These tuning boxes sound a load of rubbish! DTUK is it? If its the same as kost other remap software i believe then That will have just been a car that's been remapped, run for 200k miles(if it lasted if not another car) until they found a comfortable map that improved Performance without harming any reliability, then basically offer that map in the form of a plug and play chip. Most marques will have a company that do this, if that what the OP is asking to get then defo do it, the other option is a proper dyno session in which case I'd say go for a live map which is done under real life driving ie live on the roads it's the most accurate but that for peak performance. If your somewhat bothered about MPG it would suggest all out power is not key here. 

Therefore my suggestion would be if it were mine. Go to AMD or bluefin, they'll prob offer diff stages of upgrade, pick one that suits then enjoy. 


As for not being as smooth as each other that could be different on each car but sounds a load of rubbish.. It would all depend on what each map wants the car to do, boost spikes etc.....

But I would defo do it, but for heavens sake please don't skimp on these things, stay of ebay lol!!

Also join FFOC before doing it and do some research.


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## BoostJunky86 (Oct 25, 2012)

R7KY D said:


> I was told that anyone with a computer knowledge could program a tuning box or write a remap and not really know the damage they MAY do to your engine , And that it's best to use a company that specialise in car tuning and have a trackable record of what they do , that's why evolution chips did my CLK and AMD did my Jaguar XF both without any problems , if I ever own another diesel then it would be a remap over the tuning box .


Don't think it's quote that easy mate. 
But yes there is people who could do it, but if they were any good they be a big company lol'


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## BoostJunky86 (Oct 25, 2012)

snowz said:


> Are you comparing a cheap tuning box off ebay against a specialist tuning box off a reputable and recognised tuning firm as i dont think my £400 box is that cheap!
> Remaps or boxes both have there places,
> For a stage 1 tune you could go for either but for a stage 2 upwards then remaps the only real way to go with set up on a rolling road.
> But for a simple increase in bhp and small mpg gains then a box is as good as a map.
> ...


Even rolling roads are flawed though. Not actual load, in realistic weather, temps etc so most good tuners I know of will check everything over out on real roads when they know an engine is being pushed, last time my buddy's race car was mapped they hired bruntingthorpe for a Day to finish full throttle nap etc etc. that was awesome to watch


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## J1ODY A (Nov 28, 2008)

When researching for my Focus, ffoc all say bluefin... I am still a member.

My Astra, and Andrew at DTUK is the man in the know, again tried and tested by many inc me.

Again I have had both AMD remap (twice) & DTUK box currently - I am happy with the results of them all.

p.s. everyone agrees the £30 ebay boxes are sh*t.

Sent from my GT-P5110 using Tapatalk 2


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## nick3814 (Dec 31, 2010)

snowz said:


> Are you comparing a cheap tuning box off ebay against a specialist tuning box off a reputable and recognised tuning firm as i dont think my £400 box is that cheap!
> Remaps or boxes both have there places,
> For a stage 1 tune you could go for either but for a stage 2 upwards then remaps the only real way to go with set up on a rolling road.
> But for a simple increase in bhp and small mpg gains then a box is as good as a map.
> ...


No mate I'm talking about the likes of bluefin which are around £400! I can't see why you would risk plugging in anything like that, just seems mental, I know it's each to their own I just wouldn't risk it.

I took mine to RSTuning in Leeds and was there for half a day, had the car on the rollers and the car was put through several different runs to get the best set up. I did months of research before going for them as the top Renaultsport tuner in the north of the UK.

There's no comparison between getting you motor professionally tuned and set up and plugging a box in! Just couldn't do it. Only my opinion.


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## BoostJunky86 (Oct 25, 2012)

Admittedly for optimum output a custom map is best no two ways about it, but saying you wouldn't trust a bluefin ECU software upgrade is a little ridiculous. Its not just plug in map details. They will have remapped and tested a car to 'safe' parameters so its only like getting a remap just with pre determined settings both of the items being discussed are 'remaps' just ones custom ones pre researched. If companies like AMD, DTUK where producing plug and play maps that were killing engine. People would hear of it pretty dam quickly. 

Hence my recommendation to go bluefin and have them installed by someone like AMD who will install then pop it on a dyno to confirm output and check all is safe and ok, normally a touch cheaper as they don't have to start from scratch tweaking the map, but ok for most propel who aren't after every HP. In some respect safer than custom remaps as people tend to chase figures and push the engine closer to limits which can sacrifice reliability.


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## nick3814 (Dec 31, 2010)

Not chasing numbers at all, just wanted the best for my pride and joy that's all, like I say just my opinion.


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## BoostJunky86 (Oct 25, 2012)

nick3814 said:


> Not chasing numbers at all, just wanted the best for my pride and joy that's all, like I say just my opinion.


Weirdly I'm not disagreeing lol.

I agree. If your real serious then it's defo the best way of getting the very best but if your just after a few extra ponies and a few extra mpg then may not be worth it.


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## putzie (Mar 19, 2012)

snowz said:


> Wrong also.
> 
> People need to check their facts and info before advising others wrongly.
> 
> What bad experiences have you had of a box, was it from a reputable tuning firm or an ebay specail?


what would i know ? my friend owns a company doing engine rebuilds and tuning , have been known to do the odd engine rebuild myself when bored and give a hand when i have had free time , as for the tuning he became a while back a sole distributor for a more exspensive tuning box that can be programmed for specif cars to get the best out of them , during tests these still gave the same problems as the rubbish cheaps boxes and even when the so called maps on these boxes had been adjusted by the people who write the maps for these boxes they still eventually caused the same problems and these boxes where king exspensive .
the boxes where then returned to the company that made them and my friend then went down the route of doing remaps after purchasing the equipment to do so .
what would i know


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

Here's the official (in my mind) run down on tuning boxes vs remaps from someone who is actually into their diesel tuning...

Firstly I would like to get a concept out of the way .. People say "no smoke no poke". It's accustomed that a powerful diesel will leave a big trail of smoke.. NO. This is not true. 
A good mapped diesel will smoke no more than a regular diesel (a bit of smoke is fine). Likewise if you have been driving around town for ages and not done any full throttle stuff, some smoke on initial acceleration is normal.
When at full throttle there should not be more than a light hazing, normally only visisble at night under lights.. if there are big plumes of smoke then it's a crap map and something needs fixing.

Tuning boxes are pre-defined (a stock configuration basically) and come in a couple of types.

You have the vario-resistor type which, in effect, trick the car into over fuelling, normally plugging into the fuel rail line (tricking the car into thinking it's underfuelling) or fuel temperature sensor (again, a cold engine injects more fuel.)
These often cost up to £20-£100 brand new, normally from Ebay, and come in a box with no adjustability. In effect they are a £0.50p resistor in a £1.50 box with £0.20 of "go faster" stickers. Most things in cars run off electric signals and you can alter that signal by changing the resistance, ergo you can sometimes get more fuel into your engine by using resistors.

They cause poor driving habits, flatspots, excess smoke and unsmooth power delivery. In the long run they can damage your engine by over fuelling and producing excess soot (clogging up turbochargers (VNT mechanism), EGR valves, can clog cats and also DPFs if your car is fitted with one.

As a rule of thumb with diesels, more fuel = more power. Problem is to keep the fuelling right, most TDI's will automatically request more boost if more fuel is being sent to keep the AF mixture right. So either the turbo is left alone (depends on car) and you get massive smoke and lag from the excess fuel with not enough air to combust, or you push the turbo past usable safe limits and can shorten the life of it and your engine (let me tell you a blowing turbo can easily take out the top end of your engine).

I would not recommend these under any circumstances

Then you have the more complex type which I kind of refer to as mini-ECU's in their own right. They can cost from £150-£300 or even sometimes more.

Basically what happens is, they plug into a variety of sensors, injector rail, boost sensors and are in effect, a "flash remap" (I'll explain that term later) in a box. Normally the companies will get a car in and get a copy of it's fuel trims and data, boost, etc. They will then get a box to in effect emulate the signals from an ECU and replace with their new values.
You can tell these boxes as they are often adjustable with a little knob with different numbers, modes, etc. EG DTUK tuning boxes.

I would only recommend these for cars which are either a) under warranty and you don't want to risk it (in which case if you don't want to risk it I would personally leave it standard) or b) it's a loan car, hire car, or company car which you are not allowed to modify. They are not ideal but if you get one I would stick with a well known company such as DTUK who offer good support and assistance, and also dyno test their work 90% of the time.

Then you have remaps which are normally pretty good.
Revo, for example, generally are flash maps in which they have taken a car, designed a map for that particular car and then sell that map to their dealers, to "flash" onto cars which are the same.
This is better than a tuning box but the problem is that each car is going to be different so might not be perfectly suited to your specific engine.. 
Not to say it's bad but there is better out there.

Then you have a proper remap in which people will analyse each and every single bit of throttle opening %, rev range, etc, and adjust the fuelling specifically. These often cost between £250 and £400+ for a fully customized remap.

Personally I would either use R-Tech in Hinkley which are mainly VAG tuners but do other models like BMW, Vauxhalls, etc, Storm Developments who did my custom map for my ASZ injectors, again mainly VAG but I think they can do other things, and Darkside Developments who are one of the leading TDI tuners in the UK.

The above guys do fully custom remaps specific to your individual vehicle, and will get the best out of it.

In my opinion, if possible, always get a proper custom remap from a well regarded remapping company who specialise in your type of vehicle. EG I am a VAG man so the above 3 mentioned company are very well regarded in that. Ensure they perform the relevant checks on your vehicle before they start mapping it, making sure vital components are in good shape from an inspection, checking of any major boost leaks, if you have a diesel ensure the VNT's are not gunked up in the turbo, and that they have a dyno and can do a before and after, so you can see any major flatspots in the rev range.

There may be other tuners for other manufacturers, eg Regal and Vauxhall, is it? Thorney Motorsport too, etc.

EG here's a clip from R-tech's youtube channel of a live-mapping session in a 1.8T.






There is a lot more to remapping a car than people think or give credit to.
If you want to pay £30 for some miracle box of power then perhaps you shouldn't bother.


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## Dannbodge (Sep 26, 2010)

Personally i would want a live custom remap
However if that isn't feasible I would go for a branded tuning box such as a dtuk one.
I wouldn't trust an unbranded cheap one as they just dump extra fuel in and create issues


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

Further to my post above, I forgot to mention that some cars (such as the 130 1.7 CDTI Vauxhall engines, some bluemotion engines in Mk6 Golf TDI's) have encrypted ECU's, and until such time that tuners invest in expensive equipment to read and write the data from these encrypted units, are un-mappable in normal ways. 
In this case the tuning box would be the only way to increase power and I would recommend a well renowned one (again DTUK or similar) for these situations.


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## heavyd (Jun 11, 2006)

xJay1337 said:


> Further to my post above, I forgot to mention that some cars (such as the 130 1.7 CDTI Vauxhall engines, some bluemotion engines in Mk6 Golf TDI's) have encrypted ECU's, and until such time that tuners invest in expensive equipment to read and write the data from these encrypted units, are un-mappable in normal ways.
> In this case the tuning box would be the only way to increase power and I would recommend a well renowned one (again DTUK or similar) for these situations.


You can get these engines remapped, but not by OBD, need the ECU taking out and flashed:thumb:


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## Chrisdbx (Oct 8, 2012)

Tuning boxes best avoided! Remap all the way so long as its a good one.
I run performanceremap.co.uk so maybe some of you will think I am biased, I am not I am just in the know.


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## Dannbodge (Sep 26, 2010)

Im probably getting a tuning box.
Only 1 place can remap the denso ecu on my corsa and I'm not going to leeds for them to do it.


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## J1ODY A (Nov 28, 2008)

Dannbodge said:


> Im probably getting a tuning box.
> Only 1 place can remap the denso ecu on my corsa and I'm not going to leeds for them to do it.


The amount of people with proper tuning boxes with no problems cant be wrong... you'll be happy with the results.

Sent from my GT-P5110 using Tapatalk 2


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

Dannbodge said:


> Im probably getting a tuning box.
> Only 1 place can remap the denso ecu on my corsa and I'm not going to leeds for them to do it.


For a Corsa with no mods then that's probably fair enough but if it's got any sort of uprated turbo, injectors etc then you should probably get a remap done... People travel hundreds of miles to get the stuff done :thumb:


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## Dannbodge (Sep 26, 2010)

xJay1337 said:


> For a Corsa with no mods then that's probably fair enough but if it's got any sort of uprated turbo, injectors etc then you should probably get a remap done... People travel hundreds of miles to get the stuff done :thumb:


Yeah I'm not going crazy just want a little more power and economy. Unless the turbo dies, Then it will go hybrid


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## dann2707 (Mar 25, 2011)

I had my 1.8tdci Focus live remapped by RS tuning from 115bhp to 143bhp. It cost me £415 with rolling road and printouts which is quite good?

Felt amazing when I first got it done. Not sure what has happened now but it feels slowwwwwww.


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

You probably are just used to the power.


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## BoostJunky86 (Oct 25, 2012)

xJay1337 said:


> You probably are just used to the power.


+1. Your just used to it.

I went from 258bhp+298ft/lbs to 379 bhp and 354ft/lbs torque in my escort after a year it feels slow, (still goes well but doesn't feel as exciting anymore. So back in it goes for a new turbo lol


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## rob_wilson1 (Apr 25, 2010)

Hi all thanks for all your words of wisdom, I just want the engine to pull smoother quicker is not necessary i was quite surprised how much one of tbe dtuk boxes were compared to the eBay ones but as rhe saying goes you get what you pay for


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## snowz (Nov 14, 2012)

Buy one, try it love it or hate if hate it sell it simple.

If you remap an don't like it you cant sell that back on now can you!!


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## dann2707 (Mar 25, 2011)

No I think the clutch is going haha.


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