# Hid bi xenon delay



## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

I've got h4 bi xenon hid's and when i go from dipped to main beam there is a couple of seconds where there's no lights at all before the main beam kick in. It also means I can't flash my headlights which is annoying. 

Anyone else had this problem?


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## M.O.S (Dec 26, 2008)

Are these bulbs like the ones in Halfords or proper factory fit light units?


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

They are from hids4u


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

I'm pretty sure that's not meant to happen, in some cars with standard H4 bulbs there is a very small delay when flicking from low to high beam but it's literally only a split seconds delay. I thought that H4 HID bulbs had a metal collar that moves or a moveable xenon capsule giving an instantaneous switch.

Do the bulbs look anything like this?


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## dew1911 (Jun 9, 2009)

Illegal HID kits, all end of problems. Quit now while you still can.


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## CleanCar99 (Dec 30, 2011)

dew1911 said:


> Illegal HID kits, all end of problems. Quit now while you still can.


Are they illegal?


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

They never really have been legal but now aftermarket HID kits will fail an MOT test if not equipped with auto leveling and headlamp washers just like a car with OEM xenon lights.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

dew1911 said:


> Illegal HID kits, all end of problems. Quit now while you still can.





kybert said:


> Are they illegal?





Laurie.J.M said:


> They never really have been legal but now aftermarket HID kits will fail an MOT test if not equipped with auto leveling and headlamp washers just like a car with OEM xenon lights.


Here we go again!!


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

The headlamp relays are usually set up 'break before make' when switching from dipped to full beam, and this brief interruption will estinguish the arc and cause the control gear to have to restrike the lamp.

Best bet would be to go on ebay and search for someone's proper complete HID headlamp assembly for your car rather than these kits, as the ballasts are always made really cheaply.



Laurie.J.M said:


> I'm pretty sure that's not meant to happen, in some cars with standard H4 bulbs there is a very small delay when flicking from low to high beam but it's literally only a split seconds delay. I thought that H4 HID bulbs had a metal collar that moves or a moveable xenon capsule giving an instantaneous switch.


The capsule does move with a solenoid, but when you actually switch to full beam instead just flashing someone, the power source switches from the dipped beam filament to the full beam filament so there is an interruption in power. Discharge lamps do not respond well to power interruptions as once the capsule has reached high pressure from being hot, it needs the highest voltage to restrike an arc. This is why mains discharge lamps often won't restrike for 5 or 10 minutes.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Laurie.J.M said:


> I'm pretty sure that's not meant to happen, in some cars with standard H4 bulbs there is a very small delay when flicking from low to high beam but it's literally only a split seconds delay. I thought that H4 HID bulbs had a metal collar that moves or a moveable xenon capsule giving an instantaneous switch.
> 
> Do the bulbs look anything like this?


Yes they do


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

SteveyG said:


> The headlamp relays are usually set up 'break before make' when switching from dipped to full beam, and this brief interruption will estinguish the arc and cause the control gear to have to restrike the lamp.
> 
> Best bet would be to go on ebay and search for someone's proper complete HID headlamp assembly for your car rather than these kits, as the ballasts are always made really cheaply.
> 
> The capsule does move with a solenoid, but when you actually switch to full beam instead just flashing someone, the power source switches from the dipped beam filament to the full beam filament so there is an interruption in power. Discharge lamps do not respond well to power interruptions as once the capsule has reached high pressure from being hot, it needs the highest voltage to restrike an arc. This is why mains discharge lamps often won't restrike for 5 or 10 minutes.


My car never had a xenon option and so there are only the cheap aftermarket ones. And my old aftermarket hid kit on my golf didn't use to do this, it was instant.


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## Techgeek (Jun 7, 2007)

You could maybe get around it by adding a diode between the high beam and low beam wires but it sounds like the control box is crap a good one would have a couple of diodes and a cap and a battery feed to ride out the few millisecond delay between dipped and main.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I have a 'pause' in my xenons going from side light to dipped... they also seem to 'move uo' when on full beam... rather than just flashing... if any of that makes sense 

:lol:

:thumb:


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Is it because you've bought the cheap crap and they've got the flap that flicks over into high beam? Your normal halogen H4 has 2 filaments in two specific positions to make main and dipped beam.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Techgeek said:


> You could maybe get around it by adding a diode between the high beam and low beam wires but it sounds like the control box is crap a good one would have a couple of diodes and a cap and a battery feed to ride out the few millisecond delay between dipped and main.


It's not milliseconds mate, its about 2 seconds lol. Think I've fixed it now but will have to wait and see if it stays ok.

Thanks for the suggestion though


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> I have a 'pause' in my xenons going from side light to dipped... they also seem to 'move uo' when on full beam... rather than just flashing... if any of that makes sense
> 
> :lol:
> 
> :thumb:


From sidelight to dipped they turn on and warm up. It's when you go from dipped to main that I'm having a bit of trouble with at the moment fella.


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

I'm sure on our mini the bi xenon flasher works by flipping up a cover to give a full beam ie it's always on full but partially shielded for low. So no two filament business. It's very instant when I flash and when at light s with the engine off due to ED you can hear the covers moving if you flash.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

SteveyG said:


> Discharge lamps do not respond well to power interruptions as once the capsule has reached high pressure from being hot, it needs the highest voltage to restrike an arc. This is why mains discharge lamps often won't restrike for 5 or 10 minutes.


Try telling / explaining that to the idiots at work who keep turning them off then wondering why none of them work for a while :wall:


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

andy monty said:


> Try telling / explaining that to the idiots at work who keep turning them off then wondering why none of them work for a while :wall:


Lol our workshop ones take 10 mins in a morning to warm up


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## Techgeek (Jun 7, 2007)

hoikey said:


> It's not milliseconds mate, its about 2 seconds lol. Think I've fixed it now but will have to wait and see if it stays ok.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion though


the voltage will only be dropped for a few milliseconds, but the reason the light drops for a few seconds is the arc needs a fair bit of time to restrike once extinguished. adding either a diode, or 2 diodes, a cap and a relay will ride out the volt drop and keep the ballast running as it should.
I had a similar problem when changing from h4 headlighs on my 95 A4 to facelift projector h7 lights I had to add a diode into the harness at the switch end.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

bigmc said:


> Is it because you've bought the cheap crap and they've got the flap that flicks over into high beam? Your normal halogen H4 has 2 filaments in two specific positions to make main and dipped beam.


They weren't cheap no and I think they have the telescopic bulb


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Telescopic bulb, same deal as the motorised flap, they'll fail mot on beam pattern as with H4s both filaments need to operate unless main beam is latched on, this can't happen with the hids you've bought.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

bigmc said:


> Telescopic bulb, same deal as the motorised flap, they'll fail mot on beam pattern as with H4s both filaments need to operate unless main beam is latched on, this can't happen with the hids you've bought.


Il be honest. I've heard it all before about mot time etc... And I still have standard bulbs so I can quite easily change them back so not to fussed about that tbh. 
Just want them to work


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

hoikey said:


> My car never had a xenon option and so there are only the cheap aftermarket ones. And my old aftermarket hid kit on my golf didn't use to do this, it was instant.


It does depend on how the car switches between the two filaments. Unfortunately, unless whatever you've done fixes it, you'll need to make something or buy a relay with timer to maintain power to the ballasts for one or two seconds after power has been removed. In this case the dipped/full beam power would be used to trigger the relay and the ballast then needs a separate power supply from the fuse box.

I wouldn't go adding any capacitors like the other poster suggested as the relay will be knackered in no time from the high peak current at switch-on.


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## CleanCar99 (Dec 30, 2011)

If the bulbs are not legal and will fail an mot, does that mean if you crash and the accident investigatior notices them your insurance will be void as the car isnt road worthy???


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

kybert said:


> If the bulbs are not legal and will fail an mot, does that mean if you crash and the accident investigatior notices them your insurance will be void as the car isnt road worthy???


Who says they will fail an mot! I'm bored of discussing whether they are road legal or not.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2012)

Can understand your 'rising urine' feeling so check this out it is the ********** from 010112

_If you've been happily ignoring a warning light because it's not checked in the MOT you could be facing an MOT failure and an expensive repair bill in 2012 because of changes to the test.
The Department for Transport is adding a number of new mandatory test items to the annual MOT from 1 January 2012 to comply with a revised European testing directive.
The aim of the revised directive (2009/40/EC) is to harmonise minimum test requirements across Europe and make sure the test reflects the electrical/electronic complexity of modern car safety features.
VOSA, the government agency responsible for the MOT, has indicated that 'failures' relating to the new test items will be treated as 'advisories' in the first three months. This means that if you have any of the following problems with your car you've got until the first MOT renewal date after 1 April 2012 to get it fixed._

Li_ghting
Products on the lens or light source that obviously reduce the light's intensity or change its colour will become a reason for failure - applies to front/rear position lamps, registration plate lamps, stop lamps, rear fog and direction indicators,

Headlight requirements are updated to take account of the particular characteristics of High Intensity Discharge (HID) lamps.

HID headlights can cause dazzle if they are dirty or aimed too high so car manufacturers must fit headlamp cleaning and levelling systems. A car will fail if a mandatory headlamp cleaning or levelling system is missing, doesn't work or is obviously defective.

Vehicles fitted with aftermarket HID systems must also be fitted with properly working washer and levelling systems.

If a headlamp bulb is not seated correctly the resulting beam pattern will be indistinct and this will result in a test fail.

Electrical wiring and battery
An insecure battery will be a reason for failure as will a battery that is leaking electrolyte._


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## Derbyshire-stig (Dec 22, 2010)

I have a JDM Impreza that has D2R lamps fitted from factory and NO washers or wipers on the front headlamps, standard fitting but will still fail ?


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2012)

Derbyshire-stig said:


> I have a JDM Impreza that has D2R lamps fitted from factory and NO washers or wipers on the front headlamps, standard fitting but will still fail ?


Interesting point you make - We have 4 E220CDI's Avantgarde's (Private Hire) which do not have a cleaning system fitted but do have a self levelling system. They used to be standard equipment with a high pressure washing system but to reduce price MB listed them as 'optional equipment'

I guess it will be another one of those issues that will be covered by a catch all statement of "If fitted as Original Equipment they have to be in full working order" - however 'self levelling' is essential (IMO) given the light spread you get with these lamps.


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## Techgeek (Jun 7, 2007)

SteveyG said:


> It does depend on how the car switches between the two filaments. Unfortunately, unless whatever you've done fixes it, you'll need to make something or buy a relay with timer to maintain power to the ballasts for one or two seconds after power has been removed. In this case the dipped/full beam power would be used to trigger the relay and the ballast then needs a separate power supply from the fuse box.
> 
> I wouldn't go adding any capacitors like the other poster suggested as the relay will be knackered in no time from the high peak current at switch-on.


The capacitor would be in parallel with the relay coil so it would suppress the back emf from the coil and increase its life, not reduce it. You're just looking to keep the relay energised during the switch from low beam to high beam.


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

Good heads up glass top, I've yanked the fuse on my headlamp wash as it doesn't clean the lights just wastes water and makes the bonnet wet. Will bung the fuse back pre not!!


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Techgeek said:


> The capacitor would be in parallel with the relay coil so it would suppress the back emf from the coil and increase its life, not reduce it. You're just looking to keep the relay energised during the switch from low beam to high beam.


The relay in the relay box won't have contacts rated to drive inductive or capacitive loads. It's the OEM relay in the car which will have a shortened life.


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## RD55 DUN (Dec 30, 2008)

Hid’s Direct sell various H4 fitments. How long have you had it for?

I assume you have the H4-4 kit, which is branded Bi-Xenon…I would assume the time delay is the bulb warming up to temp

I have an H4-3 kit, with uses a magnet to activate high beam, I only have one filament in the bulb, when I pull for high beam it is instant.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

I've spoken to them today and apparently I have the wrong power leads ai they are sending some more out to see if it solves the problem


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Well the new harnesses have arrived and seem to be working fine now with no delay between dipped and main


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