# Warranty battle



## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Won't go into the full details until we have a full resolution (or not) but having a major battle with Land Rover/our Defender on some fairly major issues that ave just been revealed by an indy inspection . It's under Used Approved warranty but LR seem to have decided they'll ignore it.

Oh darn...

Let the battle commence...:devil:


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Park it across their forecourt and tell them you'll pick it up when it's fixed to your liking.


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

Not good mate, bloody hate it when dealers don’t honour their warranties or fix the dam things as part of good will.

I hope it gets resolved to your liking.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Well we have an answer.

Basically our Used Approved LR appears to have been sold to us in a pretty worn state. The previous owner clearly towed a lot and the driveshaft(s) have worn out. A fix? Almost a grand. Loads of other little issues two, one of which (two major oil leaks) have been done under warranty. We also had a clutch done two months ago (under warranty).

They are offering to pay (the dealer who sold it to us) £456 of the £956 leaving us with a £500 bill for an item that was clearly knackered before we bought it. We now have worries about what else might go pop...

We can get the work done at an Indy for about £400...

OH bu99er.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Teaching your granny to suck eggs maybe but take advice from the CAB and see what they say then.


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

335dAND110XS said:


> Well we have an answer.
> 
> Basically our Used Approved LR appears to have been sold to us in a pretty worn state. The previous owner clearly towed a lot and the driveshaft(s) have worn out. A fix? Almost a grand. Loads of other little issues two, one of which (two major oil leaks) have been done under warranty. We also had a clutch done two months ago (under warranty).
> 
> ...


A start of sorts i suppose.

See if you can negotiate to pay a little less & then you may agree to their "good will gesture".

Have you spoke to the office of fair trading http://www.oft.gov.uk/ :thumb:


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## Brummie_Nige (Sep 5, 2011)

Sorry to hear about this. Bl00dy frustrating when dealers do this.

Might be worth a letter to Land Rover HQ and copied to the dealer principal and the dealer service manager. Make sure the leters are addressed to named people. You never know, it might help to get the dealer to think again.

Good luck


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

Brummie_Nige said:


> Sorry to hear about this. Bl00dy frustrating when dealers do this.
> 
> Might be worth a letter to Land Rover HQ and copied to the dealer principal and the dealer service manager. Make sure the leters are addressed to named people. You never know, it might help to get the dealer to think again.
> 
> Good luck


Always agood idea to write to HQ & copy in the local dealer, make it a bit like hard work for them, very often they cant be arsed & give in, but it may take time. :thumb:

Best of luck 335. :thumb: Give em hell in a constructive/nuisance type of way :thumb:


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## Brummie_Nige (Sep 5, 2011)

ITHAQVA said:


> Always agood idea to write to HQ & copy in the local dealer, make it a bit like hard work for them, very often they cant be arsed & give in, but it may take time. :thumb:
> 
> Best of luck 335. :thumb: Give em hell in a constructive/nuisance type of way :thumb:


Totally agree. You pay a premium to buy your car through a dealer and you deserve the best service.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Same kind of thing all the time with used approved, I've had blazing rows with Subaru and VX, but ultimately the schemes are poop. Better getting a car off an independent and sorting a good warranty out. Good luck with it.


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## rds1985 (Mar 7, 2009)

not what you need..


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

I think we'll just sack them off a pay our Indy £416 for it (they'll do a load extra for that too) rather than pay the £500 and use the £456 offered by the dealer to get it done at a Main dealer. I don't plan on putting any more money Land Rovers way. Crap Used Approved "Promise" crap warranty.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Having the same "banging head into wall" situation mate, faults that were there when we bought it infact i'm sure they were there before we even looked at it and are blaming us lol.

I should just leave it till the clutch really goes then get a uprated Sachs one and be done with it.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Grizzle - sorry to hear that. It's such a PITA sorting it isn't it?!
Sounds very similar to our situation.


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## jgy6000 (May 15, 2007)

take the £456 as compensation in cash..


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

jgy6000 said:


> take the £456 as compensation in cash..


Good plan but I don't think they'll go for that. It has to be to the dealer. But I'll try!


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

335dAND110XS said:


> Grizzle - sorry to hear that. It's such a PITA sorting it isn't it?!
> Sounds very similar to our situation.


yeh its the trips up and down to the dealers, phone calls, frustration etc it starts to wear you down.

Best of luck on the outcome the independant thing sounds a better option but would they offer a warranty on the work like a dealer would? or am i just putting salt into a wound with that comment regarding warranty. :lol:


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

TBH the two indys I have used (for the BM and 110) appear to be ten times more thorough than the main dealers. LR have, to be fair, paid for a new clutch and sorted two oil leaks. The indy doesn't really sell vehicles, just fixes them.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Last time we took the Mrs astra in for a free recall, we ended up with a bill of £250! Because the recall part (auto radiator) had leaked fluid into the gearbox. So we had to pay 10%, phoned head office to be told that was a very good offer from them - a free recall costing me, good eh!. Last time I buy or have a service at a main agent.

Stick to the indi and take the money away from the dealership


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Don't talk to me about Vx service.. I'll get very angry...!!!


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

335dAND110XS said:


> Don't talk to me about Vx service.. I'll get very angry...!!!


Oh and the monkeys left all the lighting wiring unplugged where they took the front bumper off = no lights

TBH all main dealers are pretty poor, or maybe its just the ones I've used, VX, VW, BMW etc. The only one I found decent was Carstins Subaru in Balsall Common, they actually let me in the workshop, but my used approved "Gold Warranty" still didn't cover me for brakes that had been put in wrong by another Subaru (Hylton) main dealer.

They are far too corporate and standoffish. I just want to talk to the mechanic who's doing the work, but the service receptionist always has the same answer "The Technician is unavailable" Technician haha don't make me laugh.

All the tools but that's about it:wall:


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

robertdon777 said:


> Oh and the monkeys left all the lighting wiring unplugged where they took the front bumper off = no lights
> 
> TBH all main dealers are pretty poor, or maybe its just the ones I've used, VX, VW, BMW etc. The only one I found decent was Carstins Subaru in Balsall Common, they actually let me in the workshop, but my used approved "Gold Warranty" still didn't cover me for brakes that had been put in wrong by another Subaru (Hylton) main dealer.
> 
> ...


I have to stand up & say my local BMW dealer is very friendly & all the guys are great. A big thanks to Ocean BMW Falmouth :thumb: They have never let me down yet. :thumb:


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Ocean have been okay with me too. But my Indy is better. And half the price.


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## dew1911 (Jun 9, 2009)

What have they been towing? Mount Kilamanjaro? I assume your 'fender is pretty new to be a Transit one, so it's had some serious abuse to get through the shafts in that time!


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Previously owned by a roofing contractor...

Anyone know how long they should last?


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## dew1911 (Jun 9, 2009)

A bit longer than they have! I'd have said easily 6 figures mileage wise!


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Previously owned by a roofing contractor...

Anyone know how long they should last?


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## ABGT170 (Feb 20, 2008)

I wish you the very best of luck. Part of why Land Rover and I have gone our separate ways. The dealers don't back the product with the proper customer service and statements along the lines of "they all do that, Sir" don't quite cut it when you are paying way, way over the odds for said product. IMHO the single worst thing that could have happened, HAS happened: LR/RR sales have gone through the ****ing roof and they can sell them left, right and centre without making any changes to their dealership back up. Shame.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Just had an emil rejecting everything followed by another "threatening" email:

Good Morning Mr S****,

I wish to confirm that we are aware of your postings on the defender 2 website.

Any inaccuracies of any details posted will be referred to our company solicitors.

Yours sincerely,

P****** L****

(dealer principal)


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

As long as your posts are factual they'rejust making noise. Sounds like they're panicking a bit.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Big - they are all factual. Just checked them all very thoroughly. And of course I posted that reply them on the forum mentioned.

I think some fail to realise the power of the internet. You'd think, like Sytne*s did with our BM (a couple of small issues), they'd see there was an unhappy customer on a well used forum and that his problems have gone "public" and sort them out. But no, they decide to try and threaten instead... I can feel this going rather more public...

Cheers BTW - I quite like your Mazda BTW


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

They just want to get away with not paying, in my experience once they know you're not bending over they usually play ball, forums help this too as marque specific bad press is a nightmare.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

But what a bizarre way to respond! Threats of solicitor action. WTF are they doing?!!

We expected a battle but not threats!

Anyway, as you say, it's them starting to panic. We shall respond by tightening the vice...


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## Beancounter (Aug 31, 2006)

335dAND110XS said:


> Just had an emil rejecting everything followed by another "threatening" email:
> 
> Good Morning Mr S****,
> 
> ...


That is truely shocking behaviour from them.:doublesho
As you say, continue in the manner in which you have been and tighten the vice, as they are clearly showing signs of panic. Good luck and hope you get a satisfactory resolution.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

It seems LR head office can't do a lot but they are making both dealers aware of our concerns and that Trading Standards are also on the case...


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

335dAND110XS said:


> Just had an emil rejecting everything followed by another "threatening" email:
> 
> Good Morning Mr S****,
> 
> ...


Oh i know that threat ever so well lol.

I slagged off the courtesy car i got and within hrs got a call asking to remove it, i then made a true statement regarding the dealers handling of the warranty claim (which incidentally isn't fixed properly) and was told under no certain terms am i allowed back at there dealership and they are refusing to do any warranty work at that the "master technician"(Spanner monkey to me) and the dealer principal are livid" oddly enough when i went to pick the car up he and the dealer werent there :lol: sh-it bags!!


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

off topic got to be a wee bit careful on what you post online its a minimum slander in there eyes....

alot of firms now use defamation sadly tbh very few ever reach court because the costs are just mad. It depends ofc if your comments were fair  "honest comment" and ofc truthful if you have an interest look into spiller v joseph [2010] UKSC 

as for the landy i would not consider fair wear and tear to be meaning drive shafts!


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Cheers ninja. I have been very careful. Can send the link by pm to anyone who might be interested!


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

335dAND110XS said:


> Cheers ninja. I have been very careful. Can send the link by pm to anyone who might be interested!


im quite interested if you could PM me


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

PM sent!


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## SarahAnn (Apr 6, 2011)

I'm shocked that you got that email. I'll read through from the start and see if you've mentioned the dealer as i wouldn't want to go there and was thinking about a landrover after the sportage :thumb:

If you havent mentioned the dealer, please pm me so i can avoid


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Hi Sarah - dealers name on the way!


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## SarahAnn (Apr 6, 2011)

I didn't even realise that car dealers had solicitors on stand-by. You learn something every day.
Perhaps there isn't just you with a problem


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

I think its bloody disgusting that dealers have to resort to corporate bullying their customers, there should be a law against that, I know of many people who have bought cars (New) & dealers are going to court rather than doing the right thing. If a car is sold & is not fit for purpose, the manufacturer should be made to replace no repair. I think the same goes for any manufacturer.

Businesses get away with far too much because Governments are petrified of them. 

335 I hope you rape them for every penny mate. :thumb:


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## atheym3 (Sep 19, 2011)

You can use the sale of goods act which implies that item is fit for purpose.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governm...ights/Buyingacar-yourconsumerrights/DG_183047


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Atheym - all over them with that one but they aren't budging.

LR Head Office is now on the case (at last). I think the negative publicity (the thread of Defender2.net is nearing 1700 views, almost all Defender owners) and their utterly appalling reaction is coming to bite them back on the backside.


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

335dAND110XS said:


> and their utterly appalling reaction is coming to bite them back on the backside.


And so it should, you pay the extra money for dealer cars because they say they "quality check" their cars, and stand by their warranty. Shame on them for letting it get this far..


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Warranty company are now having another look as they think 42k is rather a low mileage for driveshafts to go - which it is...

Two pronged attack on the dealer and the warranty. Should hopefully result in something. Fingers crossed so hard that I'm get cramp...


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

42k is ridiculous!! our DMF and clutch are needing replaced at 38k dealer doesnt seem interested but keep replacing other bits in the gearbox etc rather than listen to ME and the advice i took from a transmission specialist. 

Dealers eh...


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

38k?!!! That is very low! Still under warranty? We had swirl flap failure on our Astra 1.9CDTi at the same mileage and it was sorted - eventually. Shame they made us pay for a courtesy car (they had none, told us they'd reimburse us for a hire car - then wouldn't), damaged ours then tried to get away with it and the rest.... WARD VAUXHALL is dire.

Not having much luck with main dealers really!!

Anyway it was nice to hear something positive for once and good to know the head honchos are on the case.

There are now over 2000 views on Defender specific forums (dealer name mentioned) and 800 on this... DOH to the dealer!!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I hope you put up the dealer threat on your other thread too...what a shower of A-holes....

:wall::wall::wall:

Good for you to keep fighting and keep causing a mess for them...it's the only way to deal with these people...

:thumb:


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

LR warranty underwriter has just agreed to pay in full for the driveshafts.

This is NOTHING to do with the dealer AFAIK but still a result! Many pounds saved!


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## Brummie_Nige (Sep 5, 2011)

Glad you've got this sorted. Might not be convenient for you but it sounds like time to find a new LR dealer to use in the future. Disgusting attitude from the one you bought the car from!


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## Beancounter (Aug 31, 2006)

Sounds like you kept your cool and acted correctly to get the morally correct outcome. Glad you got it sorted :thumb:


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## SarahAnn (Apr 6, 2011)

Good news but shame on the dealer.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

TBH we'll probably look to move this one on - we don't know what might pop next!

Probably for a newer or even brand new one. Guess where we WON'T be dealing with? I'm hoping the dealer gets some retribution but I guess the massive negative publicity they've had already will rather hurt sales...


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## malky christie (Nov 15, 2008)

Glad you got a resolution to your problem,if you hadn't I was going to suggest writing to Auto Express,Autocar etc. in their problem page that might have helped.


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

ITHAQVA said:


> Businesses get away with far too much because Governments are petrified of them.


They are not petrified of them, they just fleece them.

This sounds bad on the dealers part but as far as user car vat goes, the dealers get raped!

If they make half a million profit on used cars, £83,333 goes to the VAT man.

However the dealer doesn't see the same profit as the vat man sees, the vat man wins hands down.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Hmm - we don't count VAT (we are a ltd company). It just comes in then goes out as far as we are concerned. I don't consider it a "cost" like corporation tax.


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## jgy6000 (May 15, 2007)

can you name the dealer?


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

335dAND110XS said:


> Hmm - we don't count VAT (we are a ltd company). It just comes in then goes out as far as we are concerned. I don't consider it a "cost" like corporation tax.


dont follow that thinking it comes in at one price the goes out at an increased price so it does hold a value 20percent of a value

ps glad you had a good outcome on your motor


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Trying to keep them off my back after threats but most should be able to work out 

Harw00d5 in Cr0yd0n


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

335dAND110XS said:


> Hmm - we don't count VAT (we are a ltd company). It just comes in then goes out as far as we are concerned. I don't consider it a "cost" like corporation tax.


That's where the used car margin scheme or qualifying scheme is a killer, it's a bit different from conventianal VAT.

It's goes out far more than it comes in.


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

335dAND110XS said:


> Trying to keep them off my back after threats but most should be able to work out
> 
> Harw00d5 in Cr0yd0n


What's the legal stance on this, is there a law that says you can't tell the truth on a forum or they just waving their iron hand.

Are they trying to contest what you have said is not factual or have they admitted you are telling it how it is.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

If its factual ( and i have no doubt it very much is factual) then they are waving the iron fist, Newmarket Skoda Bannockburn tried the same with us apparently me personally was going to be sued for "liable" for telling the truth and voice an opinion.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

I had my posts checked by a lawyer just in case!

Yep - a failed attempt at corporate bullying a total PR disaster for them.

Despite the major issue being sorted (not by them), we still now want to move the 110 on and get a newer (or new) one and so will effectively be out of pocket. Otherwise we'll be waiting for the next item to go pop...


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> If its factual ( and i have no doubt it very much is factual) then they are waving the iron fist, Newmarket Skoda Bannockburn tried the same with us apparently me personally was going to be sued for "liable" for telling the truth and voice an opinion.


sorry Grizz its slander online  :thumb:

and anyway its "libel"

and as long as it is factual and the truth you can put in for a defense of "fair/honest comment"...tbh

overall i severely doubt any defamation case would reach court the costs would just be exceptionally high...its not uncommon for £50K + (and also the reason max mosley did not put in for defamation ) also defamation is the only civil form to run with juries...


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

GJM said:


> What's the legal stance on this, is there a law that says you can't tell the truth on a forum or they just waving their iron hand.
> 
> Are they trying to contest what you have said is not factual or have they admitted you are telling it how it is.


defamation....libel or slander...mainly focused on "damaging someone's character so that they are hated or that there is false accusations, or view you in a lower standing." in simple terms...

in addition you can have two individual claims (its civil) for each publication or re publication. And by publish you only have to show it to a single third party to be considered defamation (if they view you in lower standing).

As for being online it has no effect on the potential claims...if you want to look at an instance of this Godfrery v Demon Internet also there is another but atm it escapes me its from the HoL/Supreme Court. EDIT: it might of been the one i highlighted in my original post in this thread.

but as i have said in my post above the costs are very high (in fact defamation is one of the most expensive forms of litigation)..


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

There are 1000s of posts about poor dealership experiences. Are you saying each one could be considered libel/defamation?!!

Surely if you have a legitimate "case" and use facts not opinions or insults, it's just a fact of life that people WILL complain on-line.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

335dAND110XS said:


> There are 1000s of posts about poor dealership experiences. Are you saying each one could be considered libel/defamation?!!
> 
> Surely if you have a legitimate "case" and use facts not opinions or insults, it's just a fact of life that people WILL complain on-line.


if you took it the enth degree probably but they would fail in a court of law rather like if you took it to the enth degree you could say someone shoving/jostling on public transport a battery (in tort/criminal) there is a case around these and it failed....i cannot think of the case name atm though i can def. say the one that is at mind is not it atm....more amusing. R v Brown/ R v Wilson

it all kinda hinges on this factual/honest comment pov though


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

But what if I posted something like Ninja is a plonker?!?!?!?!?!?

:lol::lol::lol:

:thumb:


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

The Cueball said:


> But what if I posted something like Ninja is a plonker?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> :thumb:


you g*t. now i have defamed you character. in front of millions  an eye for an eye  I will take that  brb i just need to edit my location. 

edit:edited.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Anyway got the shafts done under warranty, drove to the beach with the kids three days later - burning smell, smoke through vents. Got to the dealer - had a rather nice courtesy 90XS (ALL the toys!) for almost two weeks. Dreadful family car (really hard to get into) but a little nippier and easy to park! Had very cool tyres too but they made a HUGE racket on tarmac!!










The issue was a common one - a blown brake vacuum pump. Got that fixed and seriously looked at selling it.

Realised we'd lose a fortune, did some research and basically everything that fails on an early "Puma" Defender has now been replaced! So bit the bullet, paid our hideous £460pa road tax and now hanging onto it. Having a last indy check before the warranty expires in November and having a few minor non warranty bits sorted.

PHEW!!


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

it never rains but it pours! :lol: sorry to hear about yet more problems have they gone quiet Re: your forums postings now?


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Ninja - I was blocked for a while. I have no idea why.

Actually nice to have our Landy back. And it's about 20% new now! All done under warranty but probably cost about £5k!!


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

:wall: :lol:

as for the percentage figure how old is it again?


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Late 2007.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Glad its sorted, we got part of ours sorted.

Charcoal Canister replaced after a long phonecall to Skoda they paid for the part, Newmarket our dealer fitted it free.

Next move is the Clutch and flywheel before the warranty runs out.


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## centenary (Sep 5, 2010)

Hmmm, sorry to hear you had issues. I guess that can be the downside of buying a vehicle that is generally seen as a tower as you just dont know how often and heavy the tow was.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Grizzle said:


> Glad its sorted, we got part of ours sorted.
> 
> Charcoal Canister replaced after a long phonecall to Skoda they paid for the part, Newmarket our dealer fitted it free.
> 
> Next move is the Clutch and flywheel before the warranty runs out.


Sounds like a similarish battle! I went right to the top to get it sorted which worked eventually.

As mentioned , we did consider selling it but all the bits that are prone to failure on the early Pumas (the TDCi ones) have now been replaced! Selling a car after 11 months is also a BAD idea.

One of the considerations (the most serious one in fact) was a Skoda Yeti - but the sums just didn't add up and they are a wee bit small for us. Can't find anything else that does the job of our 110 so for now, it stays with us!


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