# Best way to deal with this rust?



## deanbarbara

Hi! I've recently bought my first car and I'm getting in to the world of detailing. There's a few patches of rust on the car in various places, wheel arches, sills etc. I'm planning to deal with the rust then repaint it myself.

What would be the best way to go about removing this rust and preventing it from coming back through? Looking for the best methods/products etc.

Thanks a lot!



>


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## garage_dweller

I’m no expert but I don’t think scraping off the rust and repainting will fix that. It’ll need the metal cut out and replaced, particular the sills 


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## deanbarbara

Thanks for your input. I was hoping it wouldn't have to go that far, I've been looking at things like Bilt Hamber Deox Gel to try to treat it. Would something like that help at all or is it a waste of time at this point? Cheers!


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## dholdi

Probably not want you want to hear but there's no way that will disappear after a coat of anything apart from an angle grinder with a cutting disk and replacement welded in repair sections.
You could probably make it look better short term by removing the surface rust, treating and repainting but you have to be resigned to the fact that its going to come back.
Only you can decide if the time and effort taken for a short time gain is worth it to you for the length of time you want to keep the car.


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## deanbarbara

Thanks, I do plan to keep the car for a while so I'll give this a go and see if I can make it look better in the meantime. Thanks a lot for your responses! Much appreciated.


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## GSD

As said for a permanent fix weld in new metal but nothing wrong with cleaning it up and treating it with rust killer if your happy with the result and the car looks better it’s a winner.


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## grunty-motor

poke it with a screw driver....as said above, i think you are going to find a fair old mess in there.


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## THE CHAMP

Its time for the scrap heap for that car


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## GSD

What a stupid comment.


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## garage_dweller

deanbarbara said:


> Thanks, I do plan to keep the car for a while so I'll give this a go and see if I can make it look better in the meantime. Thanks a lot for your responses! Much appreciated.


I think most of it you'll be able to sand back and cover over, but the rust will obviously come back. Your 2nd pic, bottom of the front wing?, I'm not sure that'll be easy to tart up but worth a go. It can only look better 

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## THE CHAMP

Anyone wanting to fix it is stupid the above comment about cutting it out and welding is the correct way to tackle it but then it will still come back in time. The amount of work time effort and cost involved would be worth it if the car was a classic which that car is not


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## Barbel330

You should investigate the worst looking areas first. I ether hit it with a grinder or as said above, poke it with a screwdriver because you want to see if there are holes (looks like there will be to me) If there are holes then you’re not going to fix it without cutting and welding as you need metal to work with even just for a short term fix.

What car is it? Maybe look into replacement secondhand panels if you can find any rot free ones?


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## deanbarbara

Thanks all, it's a 05 Skoda Octavia so parts should be fairly readily available. I'll have a poke around tonight as you've suggested and see how bad it actually is. Thanks


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## mechrepairs

Buy a couple of better condition wings and fit, the mud flaps have caused some of that.

The sill you would have to cut out and treat, couple of wings in the right colour £100 and a job at a local body shop for the sills £300-400

Carl


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## Barbel330

As above 👍🏻 Look about for whatever panels you can get hold of and make good the non removable panels as best as possible. I’m sure the breakers yards will have the parts you need, it’s just a case of finding them in the same colour and rot free.


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## macca666

THE CHAMP said:


> Anyone wanting to fix it is stupid the above comment about cutting it out and welding is the correct way to tackle it but then it will still come back in time. The amount of work time effort and cost involved would be worth it if the car was a classic which that car is not


No offence mate but wind your neck in between this post and your previous this isn't Facebook here :wall:

It's clear that the only way to fix it permanently is to cut it out and replace however it can be tidied up which i assume is what the OP is looking for.

Stop being so harsh and if you've nothing constructive then move on :thumb:


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## Tintin

Welcome to the forum, Dean. Deox Gel is great stuff but is more for getting pitted rust out, whereas I think you are likely to have a few holes. You need to get back to bare metal - best way is with something like Black and Decker powerfile (£50) or a metal cup in an electric drill. Once you've done that, you can see how bad it is. If it hasn't gone through at all you could use Deox Gel to remove any remaining rust, then primer, then top coat. As said though, anywhere that it's rusted through will need cutting out and welding or a new panel. 

We all started somewhere with doing the bodywork on our cars so don't be disheartened. We bought a welder and did our own body repairs as there was a lot to do, you just have to be careful not to spend more than the car is worth.


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## deanbarbara

Thanks guys. I've had a quick go at it with a sander to have a look underneath the surface rust. There's a pic below. What's your opinions?

Thanks again.


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## macca666

The problem with rust is that it eats it's way from the inside out so the rust on those sills you're only seeing the surface of it.

As has been said only way to fix it permanently is to cut all the rust out and replace it with new metal. 

I know you're not going to that bother so if it's a quick fix get some rust converter like Bilt Hamber Hydrate80 and plaster it on then paint over it. Won't fix it but should slow it down a bit.

I'd be concerned though at the end of that sill that you might be looking at a MOT failure but its hard to see from those pics


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## grunty-motor

seriously, you need to poke it with a screw driver to see if it will go through. If it doesnt, you might end up ok. But i am going to bet the bit near the mud flap is going to be rotten from the inside.

you can of course treat it and paint it and it will look fine for a while.

Is that filler on the ground? has it been repaired already?


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## SamD

Looks like it’s full of filler and I guarantee behind that filler is more rust unfortunately


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## AnthonyUK

deanbarbara said:


> Thanks guys. I've had a quick go at it with a sander to have a look underneath the surface rust. There's a pic below. What's your opinions?
> 
> Thanks again.


My first car was a Triumph Dolomite and much more rusty than that and I did the same. It went on for a good few years.
Treat it as a learning experience and do what you can to get it looking presentable.
Don't spend too much money though just as much time as you can spare.

The Bilt Hamber products are very good such a DYNAX for the cavities and electrox for the visible parts.

As mentioned though, if there are any parts that have rusted through there really is no alternative to cutting it out. You might find there are repair panels available. 
Fancy learning how to weld? It is not difficult and a basic MIG would do the job.

I taught myself to weld as some of my previous cars were more repairs than original parts :lol:


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## Starbuck88

Take the mudflap(s) off.

Get underneath and have a prod about. Seems drastic but if it's rotting from the inside out due to fixings you could end up in a situation come MOT time.

Make sure it is all solid if you are going the rust convertor route.

Hydrate80 will seriously slow it down (years) but only on where you can truly give it a good coat.

If the car is a keeper long term. Cutting out and welding in especially on the sills is the right way to fix it.


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## GSD

Is there a waxy rust killer that can be sprayed or brushed on apart from Waxoyl ? Looked at Bilt Hamber but I can only find a wax prevention to use after rust conversion.


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## macca666

GSD said:


> Is there a waxy rust killer that can be sprayed or brushed on apart from Waxoyl ? Looked at Bilt Hamber but I can only find a wax prevention to use after rust conversion.


Not sure what products you're looking at from waxoyl but dynax UB "is able to arrest existing corrosion and to provide long-term protection to pre-corroded and corrosion-free surfaces." This is a quote directly from their website.

Hydrate 80 is their rust converter which is brushed on think this might be what you're looking for. I've used it successfully as a temporary fix but like others have said the only real way to get rid of rust is to cut it out otherwise you're just delaying it.

Hydrate 80 is good stuff and if you don't have the ability or financially it's not worth replacing metal it's definitely good as an interim measure :thumb:


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## steveo3002

do you want to cover it up for 12 months or fix it properly


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## GSD

It’s only a small bit under a wheel arch I’m going to clean it off and treat with Ku Rust but it’s a Freelander and there is a rubber trim that goes on the lip and I wanted something extra to spray or paint under the trim,I became a bit disappointed with the last Waxoyl I had don’t know if it was a dodgy batch but it just disappeared after a while and wondered if there was a different waxy product that is also a rust killer available.


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## Ennoch

GSD said:


> Is there a waxy rust killer that can be sprayed or brushed on apart from Waxoyl ? Looked at Bilt Hamber but I can only find a wax prevention to use after rust conversion.
> 
> It's only a small bit under a wheel arch I'm going to clean it off and treat with Ku Rust but it's a Freelander and there is a rubber trim that goes on the lip and I wanted something extra to spray or paint under the trim,I became a bit disappointed with the last Waxoyl I had don't know if it was a dodgy batch but it just disappeared after a while and wondered if there was a different waxy product that is also a rust killer available.


Take a look at the rust stuff I did to my Impreza as that should give you an idea of what's possible. My thoughts for you would be to sand back as much of the rust until you see clean metal, although there will definitely be pitting that will still show as rust no doubt. Coat that in Bilt Hamber Does Gel thickly and let it do it's work. That should give you good clean metal to paint - make sure you do the outer face of the lip as well as the inside (you'll need to give it a good scrub with Surfex etc to clean as much of the dirt and road grime off as possible before doing this).

Next up is the prevention to slow its return. It's controversial as everyone rates zinc primer but I'm not a fan, it's porous so as soon as you get a chip in the paint rust starts creeping back in, particularly as you'll have removed all the galvanising from the panel by sanding the rust off. What I would do instead is apply Bilt Hamber epoxy mastic - this is a hard, chemically curing paint that can then be overpainted with body colour. It's harder wearing, especially when applied to bare metal, and is going to protect the metal much better than zinc primer. If you're going to put the rubber trims back on (I'm 50/50 on whether they actually help), then I'd get a tub of marine grease and pack them with that before applying. Marine greases have their own corrosion inhibitors and will do a better job of keeping moisture out than the waxes IMO.

Waxoyl IMO is junk, it isn't very good at preventing corrosion and is expensive compared to the volume you get with BH stuff. Nothing will last forever under a car (try putting your hand in an 80mph stream of water!), but some are decidedly better than others. Also, if you want to prevent rust build up elsewhere, give the car a good underbody clean and apply BH Dynax UB to the outside faces and Dynax S50 to the cavities (chase out water with BH Ferrosol and leave for a few dry days to get the moisture out before applying). It's all in the surface prep though, if you're spraying it onto a dirty undercarriage, all it's sticking to is the dirt!


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## SadlyDistracted

GSD said:


> Is there a waxy rust killer that can be sprayed or brushed on apart from Waxoyl ? Looked at Bilt Hamber but I can only find a wax prevention to use after rust conversion.


May help but Dinitrol ML is supposed to contain rust inhibitors, and they do other stuff, too many to not be confusing IMO, but ML / 3125 may be of use under harder rust proofing/underseal type products.

As has been mentioned above, 2k Epoxy primers are good on bare steel, because of how they adhere to bare steel also as they are impervious, which helps prevent corrosion spreading underneath as with porous primers.


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