# Our National Debt



## Fordy_ST500 (Mar 10, 2009)

40,000 per household :doublesho:doublesho:doublesho

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ent-debt-reaches-1trillion-40k-household.html


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

> The TaxPayers' Alliance said the real national debt was close to £8trillion - or more than £300,000 per household.


More Labour back lash.... politics are all about telling stories and not about fixing things...

It's all a con...

:thumb:


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Labour spending like no tomorrow, when the bailiffs come they up sticks and bugger off. 

Blair and Brown have a lot to answer for among other people i may add.


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## john2garden (Nov 16, 2006)

And they wont cap benefits at £26K!!
Not worth working and contributing anymore is it??


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## Goldbug (Sep 23, 2011)

Of course it's under reported.

Plus here are some charts from:

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/


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## Goldbug (Sep 23, 2011)

john2garden said:


> And they wont cap benefits at £26K!!
> Not worth working and contributing anymore is it??


Man, what a sh1t country this place is. Ridiculous
time to dig out one of my favourites:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...e-family-facing-a-70-cut-in-their-income.html


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## RD55 DUN (Dec 30, 2008)

Goldbug said:


> Man, what a sh1t country this place is. Ridiculous
> time to dig out one of my favourites:
> 
> http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...e-family-facing-a-70-cut-in-their-income.html


WTF

They get food delivered to there door every morning, and still complain, plus get £95k a year for doing f*ck all.

Ridiculous


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

Goldbug said:


> time to dig out one of my favourites:
> 
> http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...e-family-facing-a-70-cut-in-their-income.html


That's a fine bunch of folk , Welcome to Britain


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## zaphod (May 7, 2007)

£40,000 or £300,000?
Whatever it is, there's not much to show for it in our household!


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## Goldbug (Sep 23, 2011)

RD55 DUN said:


> WTF
> 
> They get food delivered to there door every morning, and still complain, plus get £95k a year for doing f*ck all.
> 
> Ridiculous


Breed for Benefits is the only way forward


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## RD55 DUN (Dec 30, 2008)

^ i might just do that. Pack my job in and have loads of kids.

Would be earning way more than im on just now. Could have a long lie before my breakfast, and have kids do all the work needed.


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## mba (Jun 17, 2006)

Watching sky news paper review this morning and although he is not know for his political brain Tim Lovejoy commented on the situation with benefits after the other person had said "it was unfair on the children of these families"

Tims response was "that we have created a safety net of responsibility in this country, where everyone one knows their rights but noone knows their responsibilities"

Oh and if you start becoming a "baby machine" you really could do with a few disabled children in there as the premiums for those are out of this world!


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

mba said:


> Oh and if you start becoming a "baby machine" you really could do with a few disabled children in there as the premiums for those are out of this world!


Not sure how to take that comment.


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

I can literally feel the pi** in my bladder beginning to boil


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## john2garden (Nov 16, 2006)

By the time you have added on bills, fuel, food etc you have F all left of your take home wage. There is no incentive to work so am not surprised. I may as well jack in my job.


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

This may help you get your head around just how much a Trillion is :
http://www.dailycognition.com/index.php/2009/03/25/what-1-trillion-dollars-looks-like-in-dollar-bills.html


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

Problem is what our Government pays out in Benefits is nothing compared to the amount of people that evade tax.

Vodaphone got let off with a tax bill last year of $8billion. Yup thats right $8billion.

Now you take other companies that are allowed to do the same, and soon pretty much overnight there would be a rise in money again.

Benefits are required in some cases and the £26k cap is ok for say if you have 2 kids, but if you have more you should have to pay for them yourself. You want more kids, you pay for them, simples.

However, the basic observation is totally lost on some people. A lot of people against the benefits are the same people that once upon a time would have benefited from child benefit or family allowance for themselves as children, paid for by the last generation of tax payers. And now it's their turn to pay it for the current generation of kids they want to see it dropped or abolished? Not that simple.

Good discussion though


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## zaphod (May 7, 2007)

RD55 DUN said:


> ^ i might just do that. Pack my job in and have loads of kids.
> 
> Would be earning way more than im on just now. Could have a long lie before my breakfast, and have kids do all the work needed.


Sounds tempting.


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## Goldbug (Sep 23, 2011)

RD55 DUN said:


> ^ i might just do that. Pack my job in and have loads of kids.
> 
> Would be earning way more than im on just now. Could have a long lie before my breakfast, and have kids do all the work needed.


Are we going to see cuts on MPs expenses? they should be working for the average wage and it should be a honour to work for the state.
Yet they keep attacking the poor who pay more in taxes and have been persecuted like dogs for tha past 30 years.Yes 30 years


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## mba (Jun 17, 2006)

Grizzle said:


> Not sure how to take that comment.


I worked in a benefit office in my younger days and some low life scum where bragging to their mates that they get extra £££ for their disabled child. ?Now knowing this low life i knew it was never going to be put towards care for the young one but in his pocket.

Being disabled myself and knowing now that my parents askled for help when i was younger and told there was no help, only to see some skin wasters creaming off the ££ of their disabled children made my **** boil.

Unfortunately i fear the child benefit doesnt benefit the child in some cases but gives their parents some beer money


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## Stumper (Apr 5, 2009)

Grommit said:


> Problem is what our Government pays out in Benefits is nothing compared to the amount of people that evade tax.
> 
> Vodaphone got let off with a tax bill last year of $8billion. Yup thats right $8billion.
> 
> ...


When the Chancellor of the Exchequer is the beneficiary of a £4 million trust fund from Daddy which means that the family fortune gets passed down to him virtually tax-free, it's not surprising that he's not overly concerned with closing all the tax avoidance loopholes!


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## Goldbug (Sep 23, 2011)

mba said:


> Watching sky news paper review this morning and although he is not know for his political brain Tim Lovejoy commented on the situation with benefits after the other person had said "it was unfair on the children of these families"
> 
> Tims response was "that we have created a safety net of responsibility in this country, where everyone one knows their rights but noone knows their responsibilities"
> 
> Oh and if you start becoming a "baby machine" you really could do with a few disabled children in there as the premiums for those are out of this world!


Just shows what a joke this country has become. £26K for sitting on your fat **** watching Sky TV and breeding like rabbits....

The average salary of the UK is around £24-£25 grand school dinners/school activities/opticians/prescripitions (in England) etc etc. add to that many 'disabled' get a free car of their choice to drive around in fully insured and maintened for free.

Why are the feckless rewarded so highly and the workers totally shafted. I seem to turn more into a Daily Mail reader everyday but where is the fairness?

*the real disabled should be encouraged and helped to get about more *but I know of two cases of 'disabled' who are taking the **** - there is nothing wrong with them but they believe they are entitiled to a top of the range motor to jolly about in.... Whatever happened to the propery fibreglass disabled vehicles we had in the 80's one would only drive one of them if one really needed it - now we are paying for self-entitled idiots to drive around in top of the range Passats and Peugeot 407's


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

graeme_t said:


> When the Chancellor of the Exchequer is the beneficiary of a £4 million trust fund from Daddy which means that the family fortune gets passed down to him virtually tax-free, it's not surprising that he's not overly concerned with closing all the tax avoidance loopholes!


Yup, I was aware of that one aswell lol


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I still believe our “benefit” system is right, and the correct thing to do... but only as it was set up, not what it has become today.

Yes, there should be help for people who really need it, temporary, quality help to get them out the rut and back on their feet.

What I can’t agree with is the new generations of families that have done no work, yet are getting hand outs to continue to just sit about and have babies..

We are, quite simply, too soft on these people... and we are too ashamed to show our true feelings for fear of being labelled abusive, or not PC enough for modern times...

Honestly, how can a family of non providers be worth more to a nation than someone who works their back sides off every week in life?!?

Why should they people get “luxuries” like mobiles, SKY, cars, holidays etc... These are things that the working man has to earn money for...so how do they suddenly become a “gift” to the people that can’t be bothered?!?!

The above is not a right, it’s a nice to have...

I really think we need to introduce food stamps or tokens, which can only be used for food, no alcohol, nor tobacco, nothing but food.

They should not be allowed to have anything but “council” TV.

And they should be made to work for any benefits they get... even if they are out in the streets cleaning them, cleaning waterways, anything to put something back into the community.

Why are we in the UK, so intent in looking after the idiots and the lazy, yet we punish the people who try their best and work hard... What kind of country are we?!?!?!

Same thing goes for all our “criminals” mind you...


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## mba (Jun 17, 2006)

The Cueball said:


> I still believe our "benefit" system is right, and the correct thing to do... but only as it was set up, not what it has become today.
> 
> Yes, there should be help for people who really need it, temporary, quality help to get them out the rut and back on their feet.
> 
> ...


Only highlight this one but agree with your post that people are led to believe they "deserve" things as they see others with them, when they cant afford them it leads to precieved deprevation and in turn was one of the factors of the national riots imo.

Likes been said in here, you do not need a Passatt for a mobility car, you should be limited to a car that is built by UK manufacturing, knowing how many people claim this benefit this could kick start our economy by itself :lol:


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

Cueball, are you crazy? You talk too much sense, logic & critical thinking! 

You are a danger to yourself, stop it and let the government think & do everything for you!


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> I still believe our "benefit" system is right, and the correct thing to do... but only as it was set up, not what it has become today.
> 
> Yes, there should be help for people who really need it, temporary, quality help to get them out the rut and back on their feet.
> 
> ...


The voice of reson as usual CB.

Vouchers for food are a good idea.

Reminds me of the story of the two people at the CS desk in Tesco.

"The govt. have given us an extra 50p for our kids this year i see."
"Yeah, it's a bloody **** take"

CS assistant: "Next please"

"Yeah, can i get 40 Bensons and 3 lottery tickets"?

As i type this, my pregnant wife is ill in hospital. I am at work. I don't want to be here, i have to be to earn money to pay for our way and passage through our life it is our choice to live this way and we are very happy. aside from out current issues.

These benefit dodging ******s make me want to despair. £26K per year (that would net too - no tax!) is enough to raise a family on. You can't go to disney land every year and you can't have 2 BMWs on the bit of street outside your house. But, you can live.

The benefits should be there for an average family to live and average life. We do not make special cars for dwarves (using dwarves as an example of a body of people outside the 95th percentile - nothing personal shorty) to drive and accomodate them on the roads so why do we tailor benefits to number of children?

I will tell you this though. I would rather see these people get this money in this way than actually be one of them. I can't imagine being as stupid and naive as some of these people that go through life in a waking coma.

They can keep breeding too. My child is going to stick out a mile in this sea of putrid ****e we are breeding at the moment.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I agree buddy :wave:

however, make sure you teach your kid, that being smarter and living a better than average life, means they will have to pay for all these [email protected] 

I have too much pride to ever take handouts and live like some of them seem to... I guess I really should feel sorry for them in a way...... 

Never knew about your wife being in hospital either... hope it nothing serious and she and the baby get out real quick...

:thumb:


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

She's on the mend mate. Nothing serious now. Baby is fine.

I am going to encourage her to be an accountant i think. I've not meat a poor one yet. :thumb:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I thought you had met me before?!?!

You were behind me in the benefit queue the other day!?!? 

I was getting all the money I deserve for doing f**k all..... :wall::wall:

:thumb:


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> I still believe our "benefit" system is right, and the correct thing to do... but only as it was set up, not what it has become today.
> 
> Yes, there should be help for people who really need it, temporary, quality help to get them out the rut and back on their feet.
> 
> ...


I've said this (the highlighted part) for a long time!

As you say, cars, mobiles, holidays, nights out are all a luxury! To live all you need is food, clothes and shelter. The rest you have to work for.


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

We have spoken via email. 

We haven't met, not yet anyway.

I was having a bit of fun at accountants' expense there. :thumb:

I don't really mind what my daughter does. As long as she does something that can at least give her a career or an income. There will be no degrees in Art History in our house.


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## polt (Oct 18, 2011)

I'm a support worker for people with learning disabilities. Now one of the most annoying things is seeing people with Motability Scheme cars. now don't get me wrong here 

But 

being able to exchange your mobility payment for use of a BMW (Yes i've seen them advertised as part of the scheme) or other top of the range motors which i couldn't afford to keep on the road. 
The road tax is paid for them, the repairs and yearly service is paid for them.

I don't think the answer is to remove the mobility scheme it has a place but like every other benefit has been manipulated to be abused.
What they need to do is have one or 2 basic models for the scheme for able bodied people on higher rate mobility such as Ford fiesta and or Vauxall meriva and another basic model for wheelchair users such as Renault kangoo.


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

polt said:


> I'm a support worker for people with learning disabilities. Now one of the most annoying things is seeing people with Motability Scheme cars. now don't get me wrong here
> 
> But
> 
> ...


Looks like they are starting to use a bit more common sense.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/274441/25k_cap_for_motability.html


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## john2garden (Nov 16, 2006)

Then you get stories like this - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2092077/London-2012-Olympics-cost-spiral-24bn--10-TIMES-higher-2005-estimate.html I wish the money could go on things more worthwhile.


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## HalfordsShopper (Jul 8, 2008)

lol


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## polt (Oct 18, 2011)

lofty said:


> Looks like they are starting to use a bit more common sense.
> http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/274441/25k_cap_for_motability.html


Still not far enough £25k car on benefits free insurance,repairs road tax etc is still excessive. sorry but I choose a car i can afford financially and insurance wise, i agree with the first comment there re insurance - All drivers should be checked out - drink drivers excluded from scheme etc
Takes the piddle right out of the tax payers so it does. Easy to scam as well.

If a family member has Higher rate mobility and does not drive, then a family member can pay them the amount they lose out on and get a car as the named driver for that family member and have tax,insurance repairs etc paid for. I've seen it happen !!!


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

Although it's based on the USA, you can apply it to us in the UK. IT explains what i and a few others have been saying for a while:






Ron Paul dropping knowledge:


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## Deniance (Jun 28, 2008)

some people i know are claiming benefits, i even heard one of them refer to it as getting paid monday, really really annoying, they know that they can get by with out working and manage on what handouts they get, last year i was asked to fit some lights on my mates sisters new house, she is on the benefits nonsense, omg, you should have seen the house!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, it was a private rented house paid for by the government, been split up into 6 bedsits but, it was amazing, pond outside, driveway, double garage, huge huge rooms, flat screen tv, and a ****king pool table i kid you not, it did make me feel unhappy

i wonder how many more years this will go on for, i mean it is utterly ridiculous, there has to come a point when all our tax will not cover this countrys growing range of issues


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

Deniance said:


> some people i know are claiming benefits, i even heard one of them refer to it as getting paid monday, really really annoying, they know that they can get by with out working and manage on what handouts they get, last year i was asked to fit some lights on my mates sisters new house, she is on the benefits nonsense, omg, you should have seen the house!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, it was a private rented house paid for by the government, been split up into 6 bedsits but, it was amazing, pond outside, driveway, double garage, huge huge rooms, flat screen tv, and a ****king pool table i kid you not, it did make me feel unhappy
> 
> i wonder how many more years this will go on for, i mean it is utterly ridiculous, there has to come a point when all our tax will not cover this countrys growing range of issues


I agree, but on you last question check out the first video in my post above :thumb: 
Very soon, IMO the worlds economy will collapse totally.


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## ferted (May 7, 2011)

john2garden said:


> Then you get stories like this - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2092077/London-2012-Olympics-cost-spiral-24bn--10-TIMES-higher-2005-estimate.html I wish the money could go on things more worthwhile.


Me too,on the news last night they were saying that the budget for the opening ceremony alone has been doubled to £27 million:doublesho

Mobility cars are another bugbear of mine,I agree with polt that there should be something available,but it should be a simple basic car 
When I was looking for a new car last year I was in a dealer near me and he had a beautiful Mazda RX8,57 plate about 30k and it was beautiful in the lovely blue that Mazda do the salesman came over and gave me the usual spiel 'nice car that one sir,top of the range model leather interior blah-blah-blah,full service history,27k verified miles on the clock,one owner since new,*bought by us direct from Motobility*'

Now don't get me wrong IF I could of afforded to run it,it would be sat on my drive now,but knowing how I drive I think I'd be getting about 18mpg and I know I can't afford to run a car that thirsty!!

But come on is a Mazda RX8 really a good choice for someone who is disabled?


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## Goldbug (Sep 23, 2011)

Bring back the invacar, save the tax payer some money, and make it easier to police people parking in disabled spaces.

When those were around I had far more respect and time for them as the people inside were often ex WW2/military with both legs blown off etc


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