# blackfire wet ice over fire



## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Im looking at getting this kit, ive secretly wished for it for a few years now.
how do people rate it lately as I know its a fairly old combo now, also wonder how durable the final layer midnight sun is when put over the afpp?
not sure if to just go ahead and buy it r make my own version as I have amigo and powerlock, and soon may have raceglaze 55 these 3 equate to virtually the same kit. Wonder if these combined would work as well as the bf kit


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

It's wicked. Midnight sun is still one of, if not my fave ever wax. On their own they look great but durability is only ok. Use the "system" as advised and it seems to cross link and last VERY well

Will look great on the orange


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## Ge03 (Jul 19, 2011)

I've used it for some time as an alternative to Werkstat, but don't buy as a kit.
The Gloss Enhancing Polish, All Finish Paint Protection and Midnight Sun Wax are the bits that really work and they are exceptional. The wax is possibly the best value amongst the medium priced waxes and lasts as well as waxes costing more.


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## stonejedi (Feb 2, 2008)

stangalang said:


> It's wicked. Midnight sun is still one of, if not my fave ever wax. On their own they look great but durability is only ok. Use the "system" as advised and it seems to cross link and last VERY well
> 
> Will look great on the orange


+1,I purchased it when polished bliss had it on sale it's my go to system now,very easy to use and leaves a superb finish,you won't be disappointed.SJ.


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## ROMEYR32 (Mar 27, 2011)

Midight sun is my fav wax, soo easy to apply and remove. Great wax for the money. Just ordered some Glasur to have a play with


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## stonejedi (Feb 2, 2008)

ROMEYR32 said:


> Midight sun is my fav wax, soo easy to apply and remove. Great wax for the money. Just ordered some Glasur to have a play with


You'll love Glasur:thumb:.SJ.


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## cleancar (Sep 21, 2006)

Its a very good kit , the wax is all i use now 

To be honest menz power lock is equally as good as the blackfire sealant and easier to remove.

I use power lock topped with midnight sun

I dont really bother with the GEP anymore , I even use autoglym SRP topped with the wax to good effect if the paintwork needs a quick spruce up.

I find the car looks better having been waxed with midnight sun rather than using the GEP and and the blackfire sealant.

You could use all 3 !

Ive used better sprays too to be honest


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

Blackfire Wet Diamond my favourite sealant it gives great finish and unbelievable slickness :argie:
very easy to apply and remove similar Menz Power Lock . Midnight Sun very good wax sometimes I like to use it without sealant when I'm looking for deep rich finish . Amigo and CG EZ Creme easier to use than GEP and works very well with Blackfire Wet Diamond .


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Hi guys thanks all for these very helpfull posts.
dilemma as has been said by maxi and others that amigo is better than gep and powerlock is the same asafpp but easier to remove.
I already have amigo and powerlock and am wondering if I should just buy the wax and try it with what I have already, but.... I always hear how people say waxing over sealant is a waste of time, yet blackfire have this kit. Makes me think the bf kit has been specifically desighned to work best with each other.
Dillema, get on with it and buy the kit or buy the wax and make my own kit, possibly even replace the bf wax for another rg55.
Can anyone give me an idea of how long to expect durability of the bf kit?
Thanks


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## Ge03 (Jul 19, 2011)

Durability is very much "how long is a piece of string" question. So much affects the result. Mileage, weather, frequency of washes, wash technique etc etc. I've never left anything alone more than about 4 months before topping up or experimenting.
What I would say is that using the three Blackfire components as a system lasts as long as anything short of nano coatings. They are built around the 'Polycharger' system to cross link and boost the protection to an alleged twice a year.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Ge03 said:


> Durability is very much "how long is a piece of string" question. So much affects the result. Mileage, weather, frequency of washes, wash technique etc etc. I've never left anything alone more than about 4 months before topping up or experimenting.
> What I would say is that using the three Blackfire components as a system lasts as long as anything short of nano coatings. They are built around the 'Polycharger' system to cross link and boost the protection to an alleged twice a year.


I never manage to top anything up as my cars a tar spot magnet so usually have to strip back.
Currently using amigo and satsuma rock, was planning on cquartz but dinked my car so not gunna go down that route till I've had it resprayed.
Hence looking at this system as it's one that I've always liked the look of.

Suppose I just gotta make a decision and go with it


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

I wonder if my current stuff amigo the powerlock and then satsuma rock would have a similar effect?
probly wouldnt all bond as tightly I suppose


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## Ge03 (Jul 19, 2011)

The big asset of the Blackfire trinity is where the paint isn't quite perfect. They magically smooth out and hide those last few swirls and micro-marring that take hours and hours (or more often days) to polish out to perfection.
The reason they're popular with the pro's is that they can get a finished appearance from a one day detail that would otherwise take two or three days.
Ok, there is a difference obviously, but most car owners are more than happy.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Ge03 said:


> The big asset of the Blackfire trinity is where the paint isn't quite perfect. They magically smooth out and hide those last few swirls and micro-marring that take hours and hours (or more often days) to polish out to perfection.
> The reason they're popular with the pro's is that they can get a finished appearance from a one day detail that would otherwise take two or three days.
> Ok, there is a difference obviously, but most car owners are more than happy.


Sounds like what my car needs.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Have you thought about going for Fuzion as a rival, this one is packed with polymers and more durable.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Trip tdi said:


> Have you thought about going for Fuzion as a rival, this one is packed with polymers and more durable.


Um no trip didnt know much about it. I can get hold of fusion estate, is it a better wax than the midnight sun? Which I thought was full of polymers


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

deegan1979 said:


> Um no trip didnt know much about it. I can get hold of fusion estate, is it a better wax than the midnight sun? Which I thought was full of polymers


They have similar functions but Fuzion has polymers which I do believe Backfire has well to some degree.
Midnight sun is a great wax, it's Ivory Carnauba so a very refined wax for the money I honestly do feel the finish on your Electric orange will brighten and reflect, it will enhance the flake pop in the sun, but when trying new ones you might find the finish will not be the same as Backfire, you cannot go wrong with the looks department, it's a special wax for the money Deegan.


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## taylor8 (Mar 26, 2010)

have thought about this kit myself for my Black Insignia VXR, thought i have just purchased some Prima Amigo:buffer:


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## rallye666 (Jan 14, 2013)

deegan1979 said:


> Im looking at getting this kit, ive secretly wished for it for a few years now.
> how do people rate it lately as I know its a fairly old combo now, also wonder how durable the final layer midnight sun is when put over the afpp?
> not sure if to just go ahead and buy it r make my own version as I have amigo and powerlock, and soon may have raceglaze 55 these 3 equate to virtually the same kit. Wonder if these combined would work as well as the bf kit


I picked up samples of GEP, AFPP and RG55 from waxstock last year. Still not got round to using them and I've just treated myself to some polish angel escalate and master sealant so I doubt I will now.

I can send them to you if you like?


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

rallye666 said:


> I picked up samples of GEP, AFPP and RG55 from waxstock last year. Still not got round to using them and I've just treated myself to some polish angel escalate and master sealant so I doubt I will now.
> 
> I can send them to you if you like?


Crikey , what a generous offer. Thanks thatd be great, do u want anything for them?
or I can cover postage.
thanks alot mate


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## rallye666 (Jan 14, 2013)

No probs mate, I change my mind on which LSP to use so often, by the time I get round to using it I want something else!
I'll find out how much for postage this week, just PM me where you want them sent


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## gar1380 (Sep 12, 2010)

blackfire wet ice over fire 

what are the products in this , sorry if i sound vauge but the full names be good for me


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

gar1380 said:


> blackfire wet ice over fire
> 
> what are the products in this , sorry if i sound vauge but the full names be good for me


Its actually fire over wet ice sorry about that.
gloss enhancing polish
allfinish paint protection
midnight sun ivory camauba wax


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## cleancar (Sep 21, 2006)

i would buy the wax and use amigo , power lock topped by the midnight sun 

£ 50 says if you had the full kit you would never notice the difference !

i know its all psychological tho , you think your missing out not buying the full kit !


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

cleancar said:


> i would buy the wax and use amigo , power lock topped by the midnight sun
> 
> £ 50 says if you had the full kit you would never notice the difference !
> 
> i know its all psychological tho , you think your missing out not buying the full kit !


Ahh see now this is what I was thinking.
but... in the back of my mind I keep thinking as all the blackfire 3 steps contain the same polymer it should all bond together better. Thats what I keep telling myself anyway.lol
still not sure what to do


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

Don't forget Midnight Sun Wax available in 3oz £34 if you want buy it.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Same as above for Fuzion as well for a 3oz which is slightly more in price.

What kind of finish are you after Deegan.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks maxi and trip.
ive been using various different lsps since joining and was going to go down the coatings route but anoyher dent to my car has pushed the need for a respray so not going down the more permanent route just yet.
ive always wanted to try the fire over ice combo but got caught up buying and trying all sorts of things.
I guess I just want a nice easy to apply system that will hide the bits im not yet competent to remove yet with my polishers.
I really like amigo and powerlock but on my colour it does lack a little depth which I feel is what orange needs along with the reflectivity of sealants.
currently I use satsuma rock .

Basically I just always wanted to try blackfire, and now can afford it. But, I am still wondering if amigo+powerlock that I already have and either midnight sun or fusion will give as good looks and durability as the fire over ice kit. I dont like to waste money so if the difference would be minimal I would possibly just buy one of the waxes to go with what I already have.
hope that makes sense


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## Peter K (Mar 20, 2009)

I have all 3 components and have used them with other products and all together and believe me using all of the 3 Blackfire products together makes a difference - they are made to bond together and the end result proves it to be true

:thumb::thumb:


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

He's spot on it's all built to mesh together within the chain, they are expensive products but Blackfire do have their famous quote you will great Whiplash in no time, plus having a sealant before will give greater durability plus you can use the sealant on your wheels.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Peter K said:


> I have all 3 components and have used them with other products and all together and believe me using all of the 3 Blackfire products together makes a difference - they are made to bond together and the end result proves it to be true
> 
> :thumb::thumb:


Thanks. U sound like the voice in the back of my head...
think thats what I wanted to hear


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Trip tdi said:


> He's spot on it's all built to mesh together within the chain, they are expensive products but Blackfire do have their famous quote you will great Whiplash in no time, plus having a sealant before will give greater durability plus you can use the sealant on your wheels.


Cheers trip. Uve helped make my mind up.
out with the old and in with the new


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Deegan it's all the sound of the angels :wave: They are all whispering Blackfire


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

Love Blackfire:argie: Possibly the most used would be the wet diamond polymer spray after every wash.
However, if your really thinking about the range then the deep gloss polish and the afpp are a must, really will strike you when applied. The wax is stunningly easy to apply with superior result's but it will mute the finish of the afpp without doubt.
So if it's look's your after with the blackfire range then id do deep gloss polish,afpp and the wet diamond polymer spray or crystal seal. To maintain you would wash and then reapply the wet diamond polymer spray it's simply stunning.
Or
Deep gloss polish, amigo/cg ez crème, midnight sun wax, with the midnight sun instant detailer to maintain after every wash.

Out the range the above product's ive struggled to replace and tend to go full circle back on them, the rest of the range is hit/miss including the src polish's,wheel cleaner ect.

Go for it:thumb:id be highly surprised if you didn't like them:thumb:


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Lol sounds like u hear them too trip...
k9vnd well im gunna buy the kit and try to do it over a few days so I can apply 2 coats of afpp one day and 2 coats of midnight sun the next day. Should give me a good idea of finish to compare for when I need to reapply.
The kit with a little discount works out at £108 and ive dold a few un needed bits for enough to cover it. So gunna give it a go.
thanks for the reassurance


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

This is Deep gloss polish and Afpp.


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

3oz of the wax is £26 on ebay.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks kev. Looks great. Im hoping with the midnght sun my orange paint will glow


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

Midnight sun typically will last a good 5-6 month's if properly maintained, without the topping up I found it lasting a good 4 month's before needing reapplied.

Mind post up the result's:thumb:


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

deegan1979 said:


> Thanks kev. Looks great. Im hoping with the midnght sun my orange paint will glow


Sorry to rabble your mind this time of day Deegan but I have seen a useful thread on DW tonight regarding a new wax to hit the market next week from the manufacturer BMD, this wax is called Tauras and the colour is perfect for your Electric orange paint infact looks like a dead match for your car paint Orange and is PTFE enhanced which will give you non stick properties and a high hydrophobic beader, check the thread as it reminds me of Electric Orange all the way through, the colour I am emphasizing on :thumb:


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Doubt ill get to the top up stage as the tar really shows on this colour. After 3 months or so its trully peppered so usually strip bk and start over again. 
Looking forward to this so thanks for ur help


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Electirc Orange does have the tendency to show tar spots it's the nature of the colour to the visual human eye, cannot be helped but can minimized from using a PTFE Carnauba wax as it have less airborne static charge though debris pollen and fallout, the surface will be ultra slick in feel and touch and will be a high hydrophobic beader, PTFE is the stuff you really need as Electric is beautiful fluent colour, top color in the Ford range wonder why they changed £750 as a paint option back in the day it's different but a hassle to blend and match at times.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Trip tdi said:


> Sorry to rabble your mind this time of day Deegan but I have seen a useful thread on DW tonight regarding a new wax to hit the market next week from the manufacturer BMD, this wax is called Tauras and the colour is perfect for your Electric orange paint infact looks like a dead match for your car paint Orange and is PTFE enhanced which will give you non stick properties and a high hydrophobic beader, check the thread as it reminds me of Electric Orange all the way through, the colour I am emphasizing on :thumb:


Where is this thread trip? Having a lookie but no joy.
ptfe sounds interesteing considering my tar woes.
but really..... just when I (thought) id made my mind up u throw this bomb into the mix.
ur a bad man trip. Cheers tho mate


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Trip tdi said:


> Electirc Orange does have the tendency to show tar spots it's the nature of the colour to the visual human eye, cannot be helped but can minimized from using a PTFE Carnauba wax as it have less airborne static charge though debris pollen and fallout, the surface will be ultra slick in feel and touch and will be a high hydrophobic beader, PTFE is the stuff you really need as Electric is beautiful fluent colour, top color in the Ford range wonder why they changed £750 as a paint option back in the day it's different but a hassle to blend and match at times.


Tell me about it. Needs the boor and bumpers painting now. But last time they had to paint half the car to fit a new bumper. Just under £1800.
So now im hoping to have a full respray next year. Should give me a nice base to start all over again on.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

I'm a mad Einstein who has designed and played the game from Birth I was born too serve you on here  
let me track it down for Deegan :thumb: I do feel PTFE is the product for you as you already have Carnauba based waxes in your collection and use on frequent basis, but PTFE will be a game changer on your tar spots and non stick properties to your waxes in your current arsenal.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

I found it trip u crazy guy.lol
ur right I like that colour. And the beading looks great.
2 things I wonder are what will it do for the appearance of mine and how much? 
Guessing its a dear one


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Here you go mate have a read of this :- Page 2 too page 3, please excuse my eagerness in that thread it cannot be helped out from the madman here I tend to get a bit over carried away when my excitement reaches full board, I am same as you all detailing gear in my room and kitchen as well my man :lol:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=330537&page=2

Enjoy the read and note the colour from the wax on th right,looks like Electric orange :thumb:


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

deegan1979 said:


> I found it trip u crazy guy.lol
> ur right I like that colour. And the beading looks great.
> 2 things I wonder are what will it do for the appearance of mine and how much?
> Guessing its a dear one


Deegan just jump on that thread and ask what kind of finish the wax has to offer you on your Electric orange paint, I believe from instinct will be £25 pounds which is not a big ask especially when it is Bespoke blended and hand made with a PTFE enhanced molecule along T1 Grade Cranuba which is the highest band of Carnauba but Ivory edges it on the refining process.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks trip.
lol and my detailing gear has had a big decline to make a small (er) essential kit for me.
Mostly in the shed now with a few special bits still up in the wardrobe.
my what a backlash that caused eh.lol
do u think this taurus will be a looker and a pricey one?


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Trip tdi said:


> Deegan just jump on that thread and ask what kind of finish the wax has to offer you on your Electric orange paint, I believe from instinct will be £25 pounds which is not a big ask especially when it is Bespoke blended and hand made with a PTFE enhanced molecule along T1 Grade Cranuba which is the highest band of Carnauba but Ivory edges it on the refining process.


Wayyy ahead of u mate... thatd be a fair price to pay.
just depends how it looks .
was all set on bf aswell. And may just have to get both if taurus ticks the tar spot box


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

To be honest Deegan the wax has not been released it's new but have been informed this was a years development in the process, I am guessing it will cost the £25 pound mark for a 50 ml which will give you ample coats; the colour looks very appealing and customized to your exact paint code, guessing you should get a sharp radiant glimmer to the paint and magnified your paint flakes to a higher optimal clarity with a ultra slick feel to the paint from the PTFE agent, but let the manufacturer comment there dude as they are best to revile prices and performance :thumb:


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Well thanks again for the heads up mate


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

No problem happy to help when needed :thumb:

Anyway I will be shooting now time for a Evening walk round the area then make my dinner, have a shower and go to sleep talk soon bud it's been a pleasure


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Trip tdi said:


> No problem happy to help when needed :thumb:
> 
> Anyway I will be shooting now time for a Evening walk round the area then make my dinner, have a shower and go to sleep talk soon bud it's been a pleasure


Indeed a pleasure it has.
top man as always


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Only gone and ordered the wet ice over fire kit havnt I. Lol


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

deegan1979 said:


> Only gone and ordered the wet ice over fire kit havnt I. Lol


Dnt matter, as the prep with the blackfire will probably see you well and truly pleased, then it's just the matter of the wax, I hardly doubt you'd be disappointed in it and tobh when you have it and buy anything else I can bet you'll be reaching back into the cupboard for it again


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

k9vnd said:


> Dnt matter, as the prep with the blackfire will probably see you well and truly pleased, then it's just the matter of the wax, I hardly doubt you'd be disappointed in it and tobh when you have it and buy anything else I can bet you'll be reaching back into the cupboard for it again


Thats what im hoping for...
and I can stop buying new things for a while!


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## Ge03 (Jul 19, 2011)

Don't forget to leave the AFPP for at least 8 hrs to finish cross-linking before adding the wax.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Ge03 said:


> Don't forget to leave the AFPP for at least 8 hrs to finish cross-linking before adding the wax.


Thanks ill try to remember that.
do u think itd be possible to apply 2 coats of afpp one day followed by 2 coats midnight sun the next day if the cars not driven?


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

How are you going to apply the afpp? just asking because via machine give's superior result's.
Layering the afpp I dnt think there would be an advantage or difference so I would tend to just layer the midnight sun.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

k9vnd said:


> How are you going to apply the afpp? just asking because via machine give's superior result's.
> Layering the afpp I dnt think there would be an advantage or difference so I would tend to just layer the midnight sun.


Probly by da. Def not hand. Feel rotary would be too much as car will be given a gloss up with 205 prior to gep and afpp.
I know with powerlock I notice more shine after a few coats.
its arriving tmrw just got my txt.
hopefully will give it a test this weekend on the bonnet


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Do u have any tips over the standard application recommendations kev?


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

At last its here


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)




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## cleancar (Sep 21, 2006)

nice stash ! , you will love the wax

Let us know how you get on removing the sealant


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

cleancar said:


> nice stash ! , you will love the wax
> 
> Let us know how you get on removing the sealant


Cheers im excited.
wierd as some say its super easy to remove yet others say its terrible.
it does say not to let it haze before buffing tho.
the booklet is a good read


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## cleancar (Sep 21, 2006)

if you dont leave to long you will be fine , its a good kit and you will get good results.

I got bored of machine polish , applying the GEP , then using the sealant , then using the wax all in one sitting.

Its ok if you have a garage and you can come back to it after a break , otherwise your knackered trying to fit all stages in one day !

I notice a definate difference if i skip the wax stage and just use the GEP and the sealant , the wax is the icing on the cake and really improves the look.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

I can see youre point and have been planning for a while
friday pm - strip current lsp thoroughly wash, de tarr and de fallout and clay
sat am - rewash and a quick buzz over with 205 on the rotary with a light polishing pad the apply gep by ** da then apply afpp by da.
sunday - rinse and blow dry then apply midnight sun twice 8 hours apart.
thats the plan anyway. With it being a system I dont want to rush it or cut corners.
still contemplating 2 coats of afpp tho 8 hours apart except it would make it tight timewise, 
I have noted more gloss with powerlock in the past when applying a second coat


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

Removal of the sealant should be easy, id be surprised to hear anyone had difficulty removing and if so then I would only guess they've over applied by using too much.
The afpp on blue pad same method as polish with 4 pea drops working 2x2 area,buff till almost clear then leave, it should haze, leave for 15min then microfiber off.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

k9vnd said:


> Removal of the sealant should be easy, id be surprised to hear anyone had difficulty removing and if so then I would only guess they've over applied by using too much.
> The afpp on blue pad same method as polish with 4 pea drops working 2x2 area,buff till almost clear then leave, it should haze, leave for 15min then microfiber off.


Thanks mate. What blue pad are u referring to? Was planning to use black hex for gep and red hex for afpp.
the booklet sais to buff till it starts to dry to a haze then remove. Id of thought I should evenly spread it only and not keep working it?


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## Ge03 (Jul 19, 2011)

I'd been applying GEP and AFPP by DA but talking with Rich at PB he recommended applying AFPP by hand. Applying by DA does seem to 'overwork' it and it seems to stay a little oily and doesn't flash off the same as it does when applying by hand. Doing it by hand, I can apply one section, then do a second and by then the first only needs the gentlest of flick-overs with a plush MF, it feels super slick.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Ge03 said:


> I'd been applying GEP and AFPP by DA but talking with Rich at PB he recommended applying AFPP by hand. Applying by DA does seem to 'overwork' it and it seems to stay a little oily and doesn't flash off the same as it does when applying by hand. Doing it by hand, I can apply one section, then do a second and by then the first only needs the gentlest of flick-overs with a plush MF, it feels super slick.


That makes sense, thanks for the tip.
with afpp do u literally just apply like wax, gently spread it out really thin or do u rub it in a little?


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## Ge03 (Jul 19, 2011)

Just spread it thin and even. I do use a little pressure but nothing that could marr.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Ge03 said:


> Just spread it thin and even. I do use a little pressure but nothing that could marr.


Cheers buddy


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

With the afpp your looking for the thinnest even coat and will have to work in until it almost disappear's, as you have it try both application method's for me machine win's hand's down based on via hand I found it used too much of the product, for this I use the chemical guys blue glaze/gloss enhancing pad's.
Going back over what you've said I did forget to point out that when using the afpp after curing I tend to go over it with a coat of the blackfire deep gloss spray itself is a spray based sealant and mabey because of that ive never felt the need for the 2 coats of afpp.The deep gloss spray is worth looking at as it will achieve a flawless result nomatter if its the sealant or wax finish, as said earlier the polymer spray works best over the afpp and the midnight sun works best over a wax finish, looking at the kit that's what you'll be doing.
Looking forward to some result shot's so hoping the weather's good for you bud.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

k9vnd said:


> With the afpp your looking for the thinnest even coat, as you have it try both application method's for me machine win's hand's down.
> Going back over what you've said I did forget to point out that when using the afpp after curing I tend to go over it with a coat of the blackfire deep gloss spray itself is a spray based sealant and mabey because of that ive never felt the need for the 2 coats of afpp.The deep gloss spray is worth looking at as it will achieve a flawless result nomatter if its the sealant or wax finish, as said earlier the polymer spray works best over the afpp and the midnight sun works best over a wax finish, looking at the kit that's what you'll be doing.
> Looking forward to some result shot's so hoping the weather's good for you bud.[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

After application give the afpp at least 15min before removing, you will notice it will haze quickly ensuring you've applied it correctly and this way you will notice where it's not been applied or needing enough.

Enjoy the blackfire range bud and most of all using them.


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## dillinja999 (Aug 26, 2013)

ive used prima amigo followed by afpp with great visual results but only a months durability :/


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

dillinja999 said:


> ive used prima amigo followed by afpp with great visual results but only a months durability :/


Only a month? Bummer. I found the similar powelock to be alot more durable than that.
I will be topping it with the wax tho so fingers crossed.
it will be for the summer months tho


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## RMM (Jan 9, 2014)

dillinja999 said:


> ive used prima amigo followed by afpp with great visual results but only a months durability :/


I think the problem with your combo was Amigo's durability: since it has the life-span of a glaze you can't expect much from it.

BFWD applied to a squeaky clean surface will last you many many months (for me, BFWD belongs to the Holy Trinity of sealants, which also comprises WGDGPS and MPL).


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

I thought the durability of most good glazes only comes into question when the glaze itself is exposed to the elements?
ive seen 6 months with amigo and a few coats of powerlock a few summers back.
hopefully the gep polish/glaze that comes with this kit wont have any negative effext as its full of the same polymers as the afpp and mswax


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

Ive seen at a push with our great weather that the max I got from dgp and afpp on its own was roughtly 4 month's that's without top up of polymer spray or midnight sun detailer, if so then the durability would mabey have pushed a further 4-6 week's.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

k9vnd said:


> Ive seen at a push with our great weather that the max I got from dgp and afpp on its own was roughtly 4 month's that's without top up of polymer spray or midnight sun detailer, if so then the durability would mabey have pushed a further 4-6 week's.


Thanks kev. So I imagine with the midnight sun wax on top of it and topped up every 4-6 weeks it should stretch to 6 months anyway.
hopefully having a play with it today as I took the day off for baby scan this morning then :buffer: this afternoon fingers crossed


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## RMM (Jan 9, 2014)

deegan1979 said:


> I thought the durability of most good glazes only comes into question when the glaze itself is exposed to the elements?
> ive seen 6 months with amigo and a few coats of powerlock a few summers back.
> hopefully the gep polish/glaze that comes with this kit wont have any negative effext as its full of the same polymers as the afpp and mswax


Glazes are formulated essentially as a beauty product: so, their attributes sure don't comprise durability.

Amigo is difficult to classify (polish+cleanser+glaze) but being polymer-based I am sure it will be more durable than a regular glaze. However it won't cross-link with your paint as well as a full fledged sealant and when abraded it won't last as long as these do.

I know my country's weather is different and also that I have a garage both at home and at work, but I have seen durability of close to a year for WGDGPS and BFWD.


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

deegan1979 said:


> Thanks kev. So I imagine with the midnight sun wax on top of it and topped up every 4-6 weeks it should stretch to 6 months anyway.
> hopefully having a play with it today as I took the day off for baby scan this morning then :buffer: this afternoon fingers crossed


More or less, I would say at least 2-3 coats of msun but durability would be achievable to at least 5 month's or slightly less, however if this is being regulary topped via more application's then am sure you will see more durability of the msun.
2-3 coats of midnight sun should last at least 5 month's, depending our summer:lol: am sure the heat has an effect on the msun and durability will be decreased to over 3 month's.


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## cleancar (Sep 21, 2006)

well ?! how did you get on with the blackfire kit ? was it worth the pondering over ?!


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

cleancar said:


> well ?! how did you get on with the blackfire kit ? was it worth the pondering over ?!


Not had a chance yet mate. Just been drooling over it since it arrived.
aiming to make a weekend free next month so I can give the car an enhancement prior to putting the kit on.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Anyone know how good the gep is at hiding bits on a car that could do with a light machining? 
Ideally it will be enhanced prior to using it but in worst case if it doesnt get done would it be a waste to put the system on non perfect paintwork


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## Buddrow (Feb 20, 2012)

I used Blackfire We Diamond all finish paint protection over blackhole today and will wax with Midnight Sun in the week. The results so far look to be really good.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Buddrow said:


> I used Blackfire We Diamond all finish paint protection over blackhole today and will wax with Midnight Sun in the week. The results so far look to be really good.


Does look good. Whats it like to use?


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## Buddrow (Feb 20, 2012)

It took some shaking to mix it and was still a bit separated, but went on quite easy and came off very easily. I used very little of it so it should last some time.


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## nappy (Oct 3, 2006)

when you get round to use this kit the main key is not to rush and make sure you have time to do it properly. also really shake the products well. as the 1st time i used it i never did this and got a mess, as it caused a lot of hazing when using the afpp. a quick mist of the pad ad a very small amount of product was also needed and slowly worked in. as if far to much product is used you will end up with hazing/ gasing again and this will then show up under the wax as smeary residue marks on a darker car. im in the process of using the kit just now on a white car. as a previous user says let the sealant cure after wipe down (ideally this would be done in a garage) then before you apply the wax give the car a once over with the spray to remove residue. if its in the garage and cold you can wax the entire car before wipe off. the blackfire pads, are better than what you have there in the kit there to be honest and make sure you have plenty of cloths.


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## camerashy (Feb 9, 2014)

Interesting thread, Deegan1979 any updates please on your BF application
Dave


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

camerashy said:


> Interesting thread, Deegan1979 any updates please on your BF application
> Dave


Here u go
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=336631


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