# Diesel - Difference in brands?



## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

Curious if those of you driving oil burners have noticed any difference between different brands of diesel?

I'm used to petrol cars where if an engine is designed for 98 RON there's a definite advantage to using V-Power, but diesel is a whole new world.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

How you finding the new Freelander???

I have found using Shell diesel instead of supermarket stuff is getting me about 8-9 more miles per tank.

Not a lot but is a small saving.

I only run regular diesel, my car did not seem any different on the V Power stuff, it actually smoked more.


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## dew1911 (Jun 9, 2009)

Mine gets HGV Diesel and doesn't seem to suffer to badly from it, I personally don't see any benefit worth the extra cost from V-Power and the like.


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## centenary (Sep 5, 2010)

No difference whatsoever. I've used 'supermarket' diesel, shell diesel, BP Ultima diesel etc etc.

I noticed no difference at all. The car was no more economical with shell and the BP Ultimate diesel was simply extortionate!


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

I've always used branded diesel as after using supermarket slop our old car failed it's MOT due to clogged injectors and had only done 21k at the time!

I add Millers diesel power ecomax to it these days and find it makes the car run a little smoother/quieter and feels a little more eager too. Also has the benefit of cleaners in it.


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

Mirror Finish said:


> How you finding the new Freelander???


Totally different obviously, but worth the wait/indecision, it's fantastic, thank you for asking 

The reason for asking the question is, I guess, the obvious one, that everyone knows that it all comes from the same place and that the additive package should be the only difference, yet people seem to report large differences between brands.

One thing that does take a little getting used to over a petrol is that normal Diesel costs more than V-Power so once you start looking at V-Power diesel it seems to get a little crazy.

Put it like this, according to Petrolprices.com (anyone know of any other good ones?) the best price for normal diesel on my route to work is Sainsbury's at 135.9p whilst V-Power is 146.9p - that's a *big* difference.

I haven't put enough tanks through it to have a definite MPG yet so I can only go off of what the onboard computer says.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

All Diesel and petrol is exactly the same !! You can see all the different liveried tankers queuing up at Grangemouth refinery. Whether is say Esso . Shell. Tesco. Morrison or whatever its all the same stuff...
The only difference is the price You pay.........


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## centenary (Sep 5, 2010)

ChuckH said:


> All Diesel and petrol is exactly the same !! You can see all the different liveried tankers queuing up at Grangemouth refinery. Whether is say Esso . Shell. Tesco. Morrison or whatever its all the same stuff...
> The only difference is the price You pay.........


Wait until the lad who's dad works at stanlow see this! He'll tell you its not. But I agree with you.


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

ChuckH said:


> All Diesel and petrol is exactly the same !!


Not entirely true though is it? I'm not old enough to remember "Formula Shell" but that was certainly something a little different.


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## Turkleton (Apr 18, 2010)

My brothers corsa diesel was less smoky with V Power and other 'premium' diesel juices.
There was very little smoke on normal, but barely any on premium so it makes a difference on some engines I guess


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

there is a difference from my experience supermarket stuff mine drinks shell not so


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

ChuckH said:


> All Diesel and petrol is exactly the same !! You can see all the different liveried tankers queuing up at Grangemouth refinery. Whether is say Esso . Shell. Tesco. Morrison or whatever its all the same stuff...
> The only difference is the price You pay.........


It's not the same at all! The base material is the same yes all made in the same refinery but the additives packages only go into Shell/Esso/Texaco fuels because the supermarkets won't pay extra for it, hence the reason the fuel is generally cheaper at supermarkets. I see all kinds of tankers coming from Stanlow (I work next door) but the fuel inside isn't the same formula once it comes from the loading gantry.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

hutchingsp said:


> Not entirely true though is it? I'm not old enough to remember "Formula Shell" but that was certainly something a little different.


How do You know ? Your to young to remember !!

Its all the same.. It just is .. OK the V power or whatever might have an additive but all the regular fuels are the same.....


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## Tom_O (Jul 1, 2008)

Isn't it the case that it's the same petrol that comes from the refinery, but it's the difference in additional 'ingredients' that the tanker driver adds at the point of filling the forecourt tanks, that makes the difference. Isn't it at this stage that the various parts are added, to create set the different RON ratings?

It's not the case that they are all the same across the board. 95 is not the same as 99, purely by definition LOL.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

bigmc said:


> It's not the same at all! The base material is the same yes all made in the same refinery but the additives packages only go into Shell/Esso/Texaco fuels because the supermarkets won't pay extra for it, hence the reason the fuel is generally cheaper at supermarkets. I see all kinds of tankers coming from Stanlow (I work next door) but the fuel inside isn't the same formula once it comes from the loading gantry.


My Wife was a Buyer for Tesco. all the fuel was delivered in Esso lorries liveried up in tesco labels.. You believe its different ?Worth more perhaps ? Fair enough go pay for it. Its Your money ....:thumb::thumb:


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

If it is then there will be a price fixing scandal exposed , Just like the 2 soap powder companies that just got fined 

In the same breath isn't it like saying a Jag is worth more than ford ? Or a Ferrari more than a Porsche , All do the same thing just have different liveries


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

ChuckH said:


> My Wife was a Buyer for Tesco. all the fuel was delivered in Esso lorries liveried up in tesco labels.. You believe its different ?Worth more perhaps ? Fair enough go pay for it. Its Your money ....:thumb::thumb:


To be fair, tesco didn't exactly get a good name for petrol. I also do believe i've had pinking on some local 95 ron on the CTR.

Besides, the nearest garage is shell so I'd spend more in the difference of getting somewhere else than the difference in the price of petrol.


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## Dixondmn (Oct 12, 2007)

shell and tesco on the same road where i live, and shell ALWAYS undercuts tesco.... cheap V-power for my ST!!


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## Roy47 (Apr 14, 2008)

Run disel cars for the last 15 yrs ,nearly always used tesco diesel as it's cheaper 

only ever had 1 problem and that is with my x type diesel 

BUT I only did 654 miles in 1 yr with it and the egr valve got gummed up 

wife's cars have never ever had a diesel problem


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## Andy. (Apr 11, 2010)

Without question there is a difference in the diesel from BP & Tesco/Sainsbury. We have a SRi Vectra C, that until recently had a EGR valve that was playing up. However when we used BP the problem of the lumpy idle wasn't an issue. When we went back to Tesco or Sainsburys after the refilled fuel made it to the engine the lumpy idle would return. 

I have now replaced the EGR valve and can once again use either fuel with no issues. To me that proves that tolerance between the fuels was enough to effect how the car responded to each fuel.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

ChuckH said:


> My Wife was a Buyer for Tesco. all the fuel was delivered in Esso lorries liveried up in tesco labels.. You believe its different ?Worth more perhaps ? Fair enough go pay for it. Its Your money ....:thumb::thumb:


So if I deliver tesco value crisps in walkers trucks does that make them walkers? I don't think it's different, I know it's different, the SG is different because of the detergent and lubricants in it.


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## gordonpuk (Mar 14, 2010)

Who's going to be the first to mention using vegetable oil. . . . Ooh me!


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

I just wish I could run my car on Red Diesel, the litttle garage near me sells red as all the farmers buy it. Is only 55ppl, they only sell it in 20L containers.


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## s2kpaul (Jul 27, 2006)

i have to admite mine feel better on texaco derv rather than fina. EGR valve always plays up on fina fuel for some odd reason.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

ChuckH said:


> All Diesel and petrol is exactly the same !! You can see all the different liveried tankers queuing up at Grangemouth refinery. Whether is say Esso . Shell. Tesco. Morrison or whatever its all the same stuff...
> The only difference is the price You pay.........





centenary said:


> Wait until the lad who's dad works at stanlow see this! He'll tell you its not. But I agree with you.


When they queue up at the port the "brand" stations (shell bp etc) add there own ingredient, but i agree about the supermarket stuff is all the same.

As for noticing a difference then yes but overtime, i get absolute rubbish MPG in my Caddy if i use Asda's derv so use Shell were i can with Millers Eco max.

The car runs better on Super unleaded i also use the petrol version of Millers in it too.


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## toomanycitroens (Jan 14, 2011)

ChuckH said:


> My Wife was a Buyer for Tesco. all the fuel was delivered in Esso lorries liveried up in tesco labels.. You believe its different ?Worth more perhaps ? Fair enough go pay for it. Its Your money ....:thumb::thumb:


I believe the tankers are divided and different spec fuels can be delivered to different sites (mainly for spillage reasons, in case of an accident). Esso may deliver to Tesco, but there is no way they will pay a premium for additives which are probably in the section devoted to deliveries to Esso sites and not Tesco.
By the way, if you see a trailer liveried in 'Coca Cola' for example, it could just as easily be carrying baked beans.
Tesco was probably the worst example to use:wave:


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

at the end of the day the additives make the difference end of, technically speaking they are no longer the same then by definition it explains the mpg difference for me easy peasy


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Mirror Finish said:


> How you finding the new Freelander???
> 
> I have found using Shell diesel instead of supermarket stuff is getting me about 8-9 more miles per tank.
> 
> ...


On average I get about 20-30 more miles out of branded (BP/Shell/Total) derv than Sainsburys or Tescos.

Car seems to go better on branded...and now there it normally works out that the branded stuff is cheaper than supermarket fuel.


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## Derek Mc (Jun 27, 2006)

Having had some time working at a refinery I can confirm blends are not the same across the brands even from the same refinery this is a well known fact.
It was recently borne out as a certain supermarket fuel was found to run about 60 miles less per tank than brands such as BP and Shell.

How was this analysed? well it was reported in the papers but also on a lot of the car make forums it was found to be true.

I myself did two repeat runs of 550 miles from where I live to Derby and home same roads near same conditions and one tank lasted 630 miles the Shell was 708 miles and took the same quantity (give or take .05 of a litre) so I had to agree with the genral findings by my own experience.
I am back to Shell again and range has gone right up again.


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## DIESEL DAVE (Jul 26, 2007)

I`ll stick with Shell (its the same price as the supermarket here anyway)


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

DIESEL DAVE said:


> I`ll stick with Shell (its the same price as the supermarket here anyway)


Same as infact the BP garage down the road is cheaper that Sainsburys...and the Total on the A30 at Virgina Water is cheaper still....


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## who45 (Feb 8, 2008)

stuff the ultimate labels - get it remapped.....bags more power and still awesome mpg


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## snapsnap (Jul 18, 2008)

Never noticed any difference between brands, car or bike, petrol or derv.

Buy whatever is cheapest!


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

One of the problems I find with all media, including internet forums, is people claiming something is fact without understanding it.


ChuckH said:


> All Diesel and petrol is exactly the same !! You can see all the different liveried tankers queuing up at Grangemouth refinery. Whether is say Esso . Shell. Tesco. Morrison or whatever its all the same stuff...
> The only difference is the price You pay.........


This is not true. It's like saying all water that comes out the taps in homes across the UK is the same. There's a defined standard that it must have a min/max of element A, B & C but there are differences in additives etc.

It's the same as the engine oil debate and the same as the expensive tyres V's cheap tyres even expensive biscuits V's cheap biscuits.

Real life example: There's a company that makes biscuits and off a single production line they make expensive and cheap biscuits so does that mean they are all the same since they all come off the same production line? No. If the amount of broken/mishapen/overcooked/etc biscuits is higher than X% they go into the cheap brand boxes, if they're below that limit they go into the expensive brand boxes.

There are specific standards which fuel must meet in the EU and these standards allow for different additive mixes. This is because... you get different additive mixes. Cheap ones and expensive ones.

To answer the OP's question... there are differences which can be subtle or a bit more obvious depending on the situation. They're all pretty similar (because they need to be under EU law) but some reduce smoke, reduce clatter on a cold start or increase MPG. They can depend on the car, the mileage/age & even the weather.

I try and stick to Shell/BP rather than supermarket brands but the reality is it generally won't make much difference in the short term.

A friend worked in a lab testing engine oil/fuel and when you see the difference between cheap/expensive brands in a engine that's been run for a long period you certainly see the difference between cheap/expensive oil/fuel.

Would fuel companies spend so much on R&D if they were all pumping out the same stuff?

Is expensive wax better than a cheap wax???


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

I get the same perfomance no matter which one i use. But some say lower bhp cars benifit from certain manufacturers. Additives added are surpose to do the trick. Thou i think its all in the mind. And the pocket


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

chillly said:


> I get the same perfomance no matter which one i use. But some say lower bhp cars benifit from certain manufacturers. Additives added are surpose to do the trick. Thou i think its all in the mind. And the pocket


I use Shell and Shell only, last time I used a supermarket brand was in a 200bhp Bora and it was noisy, smoky, less economical and flat, louder diesel knock, back on to Shell when it ran out and it was back to normal. Would only ever put £5 in from a supermarket to get to another branded station now.


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

I only use either Shell or Esso. Had to put a tankful of Tesco in a while back, and was glad when I'd used it up. Bad mpg, car ran rough etc.

I'd never use BP, too overpriced and crummy mpg IMHO.

There was an issue a while back with a certain supermarket fuel too in my area.

I can easily get 55-60+mpg with a tankful of Shell in my car, which is nearing 200k miles.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

bigmc said:


> I use Shell and Shell only, last time I used a supermarket brand was in a 200bhp Bora and it was noisy, smoky, less economical and flat, louder diesel knock, back on to Shell when it ran out and it was back to normal. Would only ever put £5 in from a supermarket to get to another branded station now.


i have noticed mine is more clattery at idle on supermarket stuff as well :lol:


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## Franzpan (Mar 2, 2009)

I use BP ultimate. No extra power or mpg but the engine runs smoother on it. Its much less clunkier and rattlier after a few tanks of Ultimate over regular. And when you can get it at the same price as regular then why not


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

centenary said:


> No difference whatsoever. I've used 'supermarket' diesel, shell diesel, BP Ultima diesel etc etc.
> 
> I noticed no difference at all. The car was no more economical with shell and the BP Ultimate diesel was simply extortionate!


Pretty much the same here.

TBH I'll put anything in the Landy (!) but I try and stick Shell in the BM if I can. But sometimes, especially in Cornwall, you just NEED to fuel up where you can.

I'm convinced premium diesel (and most petrol) is a marketing con and I've still yet to see proper test results carried out under controlled conditions - it's all "my car FEELS better with this rip off fuel" etc.

I used normal petrol in my R32 Golf too - it was fine.

I'll happily spend more on things when there is a PROVEN benefit. For fuel - no way. Premium fuel is a lot slower to sell to so sits around for ages dropping RON ratings (petrol) and cetane (diesel) as it "decays."


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## centenary (Sep 5, 2010)

bigmc said:


> I use Shell and Shell only, last time I used a supermarket brand was in a 200bhp Bora and it was noisy, smoky, less economical and flat, louder diesel knock, back on to Shell when it ran out and it was back to normal. Would only ever put £5 in from a supermarket to get to another branded station now.


Well I filled the bimmer with BP Ultimate which is supposed to be premium diesel and came at about a 8 - 10p per litre premium price.

There was absolutely no difference in performance, noise, diesel knock etc than when I fill it at the local Morrison's with 'cheaper supermarket' fuel.

One bimmer has done over 157,000 miles on mainly supermarket fuels (probably 90% of its life). It recently had the swirl flaps removed from the manifold. They were to quote the indie who did the work relatively clean. He asked if I used branded fuel in view of this to which I said no, I used supermarket fuel.

So, Im not convinced one jot that branded fuel is any better or significantly different to supermarket fuel when comparing like with like.

But that's just my own opinion.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Only car I'd use a premium fuel in is a VERY powerful turbo petrol.

Cent - did the flaps fail? Is yours a four pot BM? They went on my Astra (1.9CDTi 150) and it was pretty bad news. Covered under warranty but the dealer was SO bad, it put me off the brand for life.


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## centenary (Sep 5, 2010)

335dAND110XS said:


> Only car I'd use a premium fuel in is a VERY powerful turbo petrol.
> 
> Cent - did the flaps fail? Is yours a four pot BM? They went on my Astra (1.9CDTi 150) and it was pretty bad news. Covered under warranty but the dealer was SO bad, it put me off the brand for life.


Hi,

Yep, the E46 is a 2002 320d so sits right in the range of potentially affected engines.

No, the flaps didnt fail. I'd been intending having them taken out for the last 18 months or so when I first heard about the flap failure. It was always at the back of my mind that if one did let go, the engine would be finished and the car scrap due to the mileage.

My local indie hadnt heard of the blanking plug fix so I got the people in Essex who can up with the fix to send me the blanks and instructions. The indie then took the old ones out and inserted the blanks.


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## s2kpaul (Jul 27, 2006)

i noticed no diffrence, all i can say is the texaco derv keeps the egr valve slighty cleaner .


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## Franzpan (Mar 2, 2009)

centenary said:


> Well I filled the bimmer with BP Ultimate which is supposed to be premium diesel and came at about a 8 - 10p per litre premium price.


10p more? wow. Over here it is usually only 5p more, Ive seen it once at 6p.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Buy supermarket fuel in it and use Miller's Powermax:thumb:


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

I just filled the BM with Sainsburys fuel (the Shell garage was being refuelled) and it hasn't yet blow up...


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

335dAND110XS said:


> I just filled the *BM* with Sainsburys fuel (the Shell garage was being refuelled) and i*t hasn't yet blow up...*


Ha don't speak too soon :lol:


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

bigmc said:


> It's not the same at all! The base material is the same yes all made in the same refinery but the additives packages only go into Shell/Esso/Texaco fuels because the supermarkets won't pay extra for it, hence the reason the fuel is generally cheaper at supermarkets. I see all kinds of tankers coming from Stanlow (I work next door) but the fuel inside isn't the same formula once it comes from the loading gantry.


Tescos fuel does have additive and they buy it from the oil companies they buy there fuel from:thumb: If you want it from the horses mouth just ask the garage manager ( staff ) from what ever garage you use they will tell you:thumb:


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

i find texoco good fuel, but its very expensive down my area.

I normally stick to esso more.

Shame shell have changed the here formula for diesel, use to be called shell diesel extra, now its shell fuel save.


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## DIESEL DAVE (Jul 26, 2007)

Always use Shell V Power :thumb:


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

I've used Diesel from several different sellers and I haven't ever noticed any difference, weather that may change with long term use of one brand in particular remains to be seen and if it did I'd still be dubious regarding how cost effective it would be given the extra cost to begin with ?


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