# Polish for thin paint



## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

So i am planning on removing the swirls on the Pug at some point this year and i have CG hex logic pads and the much famed Megs 105 & 205.

However, the paint on the Pug is ridculously thin, the edge of the bonnet is only 20 microns for example.
So having said all of that, is there anything else anyone can remoomend to use to remove the swirls? Oh and i plan on jewelling it before applying the chosen coatings so does anyone have anything else they can recommend, pads & polish?


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## Yellow Dave (Apr 5, 2011)

Why bother chasing perfection on such delicate paint? It will inevitably need doing again. 

I instantly though of the likes of carpro essence


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## BTS (Jul 22, 2013)

Glare is your friend here. 

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

Yellow Dave said:


> Why bother chasing perfection on such delicate paint? It will inevitably need doing again.
> 
> I instantly though of the likes of carpro essence


Just removing the swirls, it wont be perfect by any means as the orange peel is horriffic but i can live with it.

Cheers :thumb:


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## Demetrios72 (Jun 27, 2011)

Scholl S40 with a black Hex finishing pad :thumb:


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## dchapman88 (Mar 17, 2016)

BTS has got it right Muzzer
Glare would be absolutely perfect, Philip has some stuff left. 

Perfect for soft, thin, delicate paints etc 
Will give you a stunning finish with no abrasion and two coats of the pro polish will give you protection too


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

dchapman88 said:


> BTS has got it right Muzzer
> Glare would be absolutely perfect, Philip has some stuff left.
> 
> Perfect for soft, thin, delicate paints etc
> Will give you a stunning finish with no abrasion and two coats of the pro polish will give you protection too


Looking into Kamikaze coatings at the moment, possibly Miyabe then topped with their wax


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## dchapman88 (Mar 17, 2016)

Shame your not a little closer to me, you could come over for a try of glare before you made any decisions 

You can still wax over glare! I've had the In2 ceramic wax on my Glared Juke for about 2 months now with no signs of the beads starting to break down
I know it won't bond brilliantly to glare like bare paint but it will still bond 

And best of all any fresh swirls or RDS you notice you can fix in 1 or 2 steps and the clearcoat is unaffected 
I find myself outside often doing silly 'fixes' as I know I won't do any cutting away or clearcoat


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

Yellow Dave said:


> Why bother chasing perfection on such delicate paint? It will inevitably need doing again.
> 
> I instantly though of the likes of carpro essence


This to come straight to my mind bud:thumb:

If you have very thin paint, preserving the clear is the key then Essence on a Carpro gloss pad is your fella here:thumb: this will mask and give you fantastic gloss levels and protection plus a base for whatever you decide to put on top as your LSP :thumb:


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

chongo said:


> This to come straight to my mind bud:thumb:
> 
> If you have very thin paint, preserving the clear is the key then Essence on a Carpro gloss pad is your fella here:thumb: this will mask and give you fantastic gloss levels and protection plus a base for whatever you decide to put on top as your LSP :thumb:


Sounds like a plan to me, the average reading across the rest of the car whilst thin, isn't too bad(90 microns) but the edges are ridiculously thin and i'll be leaving those well alone i think


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

20 microns, are you sure? There is normally well over that in primer lol. 

if in doubt glare is the way forward. If it isn't showing signs of failure I would just stick with m205 and use the softly softly approach. Bit by bit methodically get the results


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

stangalang said:


> 20 microns, are you sure? There is normally well over that in primer lol.
> 
> if in doubt glare is the way forward. If it isn't showing signs of failure I would just stick with m205 and use the softly softly approach. Bit by bit methodically get the results


Yep, meausred it with a pdg some time ago and that was the reading about an inch and a half away from the leading edge of the bonnet.
Oh bit by bit is going to be the approach, start off with the least aggresive polish i can find with the least aggresive pad and measure the paint. If it's acheived the results i want, then i'll stop.

I know i wont get it perfect but if i can remove the worst of the swirls then i'll be happy and i am aware if i don't get my washing drying routine spot on, i'll only bring them back so that is my first plan of attack :thumb:


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

what were the other measurements like? and whats the colour look like? there is low and then there is 20um lol


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

stangalang said:


> what were the other measurements like? and whats the colour look like? there is low and then there is 20um lol


Middle of the bonnet was about 50 iirc, roof was an average of 70-80, doors and bootlid average of 80-90.
Its a metallic black, think Peugeot call it Nera.

Pretty sure the readings are accurate, i did the same with the skoda i had beforehand and that was an average across the car of 120 on all panels.

If you look under the bonnet, where the bracing is attached to the underside of the bonnet you can see where they have sprayed it and missed a few spots as you can see the undercoat.

Very thin indeed.


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## Citygo (Jan 13, 2014)

Carpro essence with a gloss pad


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

muzzer said:


> Middle of the bonnet was about 50 iirc, roof was an average of 70-80, doors and bootlid average of 80-90.
> Its a metallic black, think Peugeot call it Nera.
> 
> Pretty sure the readings are accurate, i did the same with the skoda i had beforehand and that was an average across the car of 120 on all panels.
> ...


Wowsers if its accurate I am truly amazed. Really inspect the area in comparison with the rest of the panel, and then car, with different tone lights. If it shows signs of failure beginning just glaze it, every pass will bring you closer to actually making it worse. But if it looks pretty natural, softly softly and after every set let it cool, then take multiple readings and work out an average. Figure out how much removal you seem to be getting, inspect again, and repeat.

As you know, I work on a lot of restored and repaired cars so deal with thin areas frequently. You have to do what you have to do, but recognise when its counter productive is my best advice


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## derbigofast (Dec 6, 2011)

ive had great results with scholl w6+ i know its not a polish but a filler heavy sealant but it fills well and lasts quite well so will save any accidental paint burning that could and should be avoided if possible


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

stangalang said:


> Wowsers if its accurate I am truly amazed. Really inspect the area in comparison with the rest of the panel, and then car, with different tone lights. If it shows signs of failure beginning just glaze it, every pass will bring you closer to actually making it worse. But if it looks pretty natural, softly softly and after every set let it cool, then take multiple readings and work out an average. Figure out how much removal you seem to be getting, inspect again, and repeat.
> 
> As you know, I work on a lot of restored and repaired cars so deal with thin areas frequently. You have to do what you have to do, but recognise when its counter productive is my best advice


Well as often said on here by yourself and others, i'll do a test patch first and see what happens. If i get a good result and the thickness is still okay, then away we go but very very carefully and as you say, check the thickness religously.
If it isn't good news, i'm leaving it well alone

Cheers for your advice anyway and i am listening :thumb:


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## SunnyBoi (Apr 25, 2013)

I'm on a similar boat here, super soft single stage paint abused with a woolpad by some idiot few years ago. All the edges have primer showing already, raised edges look darker with primer showing up.

I'm going to do one pass with essence and seal it with cquartz or similar glass coat.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

SunnyBoi said:


> I'm on a similar boat here, super soft single stage paint abused with a woolpad by some idiot few years ago. All the edges have primer showing already, raised edges look darker with primer showing up.
> 
> I'm going to do one pass with essence and seal it with cquartz or similar glass coat.


Believe it or not, this is from the factory and i'm the only owner.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Those readings are insane, Muzzer. I didn't think anyone could lay a primer, Base and clear down so thin. A cigarette paper is around 50um!!

Good luck bud. 

Cooks 

Sent from my Wenger 16999


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## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

First thing I'd look into Muzzer is a second opinion on the reads. I'm not saying you're wrong/don't know what you are doing, but if it was me and that was my car from new I'd be pretty peeved that the paint was so thin. It obviously leaves you virtually nowhere to go with any correction!

I'm sure you are probably sadly right on the reads but surely worth a shot. Would open up the options to you if the reads were skewy.


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## J306TD (May 19, 2008)

Don't shoot me down here. But have you checked the calibration of it?

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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

J306TD said:


> Don't shoot me down here. But have you checked the calibration of it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Nope but i might give that a shot first.

MDC, would 't surprise me to be honest, like i said earlier where the bonnet brace is on the underside, if you look at it sideways on you can see where they missed and it's just undercoat. No wonder the thing only weighs 1200kg kerbside weight


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

muzzer said:


> Nope but i might give that a shot first.
> 
> MDC, would 't surprise me to be honest, like i said earlier where the bonnet brace is on the underside, if you look at it sideways on you can see where they missed and it's just undercoat. No wonder the thing only weighs 1200kg kerbside weight


Every time I use mine I ensure the calibration has been done:thumb:
This could be your problem, well I hope it is:doublesho


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

chongo said:


> Every time I use mine I ensure the calibration has been done:thumb:
> This could be your problem, well I hope it is:doublesho


Wouldn't surprise me if it wasnt though Chongo.

To be fair i've been planning the swirl removal since i bought the car last year and not go round to it but the paint does seem to be ridiculously thin.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

Nothing worst than ultra thin paint, but there's always a solution:thumb:

Why not use Essence then afterwards use Essence plus just to give more filling capability, or Essence then a coating then Essence plus :thumb:


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

chongo said:


> Nothing worst than ultra thin paint, but there's always a solution:thumb:
> 
> Why not use Essence then afterwards use Essence plus just to give more filling capability, or Essence then a coating then Essence plus :thumb:


I might give Essence a go and see what results i get, if it is the result i'm after tyen i'll leave it alone after that.

We shall see


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## Lowlife (Jun 17, 2016)

Your reading is way of, you should only see bare metal at those levels. For thin paint Start with Kamikaze artificial clear coat and top it with miyabi & ism. This way you are not removing anything only adding.


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## SunnyBoi (Apr 25, 2013)

SunnyBoi said:


> I'm going to do one pass with essence and seal it with cquartz or similar glass coat.


Small update : Did a pass with Menzerna SF4000 (SF3500 now?) and applied two coats of ceramic glass coating. The car still has horrible deep swirls everywhere, its only visible if someone points a torch at it. Very happy with the end result, I dont think I could get this kinda wet finish even with any wax till date.


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## mb1 (Oct 5, 2016)

is SF4000 light and medium cut I don't know about SF3500.


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