# expensive wax



## willj (May 26, 2007)

Do any of you ever get the feeling that some of these product manufacturers are laughing their socks off at you?

People have said on here many times, that you would be hard pressed to tell one wax from another when it was on a car. Thus, why pay x for a wax when you can get another for y?

What are your reasons for spending lets say, over £30 for a small tub of wax?

Also, if you did a double blind test with a whole lot of waxes, would you
a. think you'd be able to tell them apart
b. be able to pick your one out
c. be gutted if you noticed that relatively cheap ones gave just as good a finish as some far more expensive ones (some, perhaps even better)


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

The qualities of a more expensive wax are wider than just the initial bling.

The durability really goes up as you spend more.


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## Ant GTI-6 (Nov 30, 2005)

Initally on the Wax a and wax b side by side 'may' have no real differences apart from the price tag, I have seen/used many waxes costing from £12-almost £2k on the same day. I must admit there wax a noticeable differnece in the most expensive one. The look from any angel was just amazing.

I think the real differnece comes in the longitivity test, this is where the more expensive waxes win the race.


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

detailfinish said:


> The qualities of a more expensive wax are wider than just the initial bling.
> 
> The durability really goes up as you spend more.


But does it? Really?

Collinite is an example of one wax that costs pretty much feck all, yet outlasts just about anything else on the market. So that's durability=costly out the window.


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

willj said:


> But does it? Really?
> 
> Collinite is an example of one wax that costs pretty much feck all, yet outlasts just about anything else on the market. So that's durability=costly out the window.




And to me that signals this won't be a sensible discussion.


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

detailfinish said:


> And to me that signals this won't be a sensible discussion.


Why?


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Owing a great number of carnaubas, ranging from just £6 a tin (Simoniz Original) to near £300 a tin (Swissvax Mystery), I can honestly say that all the waxes I own do have there own little nuances and many suit different colours better than others. Some deliver wettness, others gloss, some are deeper than others. Differences are not huge on initial application but they are there, and in a detailers eyes, if you go to al the effort of perfecting the paint in the polishing stage, if the vastly more expensive wax delivers that little more in the finish, then its worth the extra - we're striving for the best we can here.

Now, on the durability side of things, there are a few things to consider. First, lets take the Collinite argument. Yes, this is a highly durable wax, but looks wise while it is good, it looses out to its more expensive competition like Zymol and Swissvax for example, and also less expensive waxes from Victoria. Yes, the differences are small and Collinite looks very good, but it does seem to loose out a little on looks compared to these ones in particular. This difference becomes more apparent as time goes by - one month on, the Collinite will still be beading fantastically, thats for sure but it will have lost its edge on the looks, the car no longer looks just waxed while one done with Swissvax Myster for example, looks just like it was waxed. This is another considering in durability - not just whether the LSP is still protecting, but whether it is holding its looks.

Both Zymol and Swissvax are very durable, but also bring the best in looks to the party as well and they maintain that look for longer. For these reasons, they are, in my eyes, worth the extra. Yes - in a practical sense, sensible hat on, they are too expensive: but this is my hobby, I strive for the best in all my finishes and the best is exactly what I get with these waxes.

To put the argument a slightly different way: what brand of trainers do you own? The £5 ones, or £100 Nikes? The £5 ones do a good job, and ultimately are the same as the Nikes - but chances are the Nikes will last a bit longer and look a bit better, especially weeks on while the cheaper ones are becoming tatty. 

PS - I dont actually own trainers, so that above may be a bad example!


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## Paul-T (Nov 2, 2006)

You obviously feel very strongly about it Will, and have already made your mind up. So vote with your feet and walk away from them. However, I don't agree with you and think that some of the more expensive LSP's really do stand out fromthe crowd, on a well prep'd surface.

What I also don't agree with is all the gushing posts about how wonderful a particular wax is when people are looking at a photograph taken by an unknow camera, on a £90 computer screen. I could go out now, wash my car with a old t-shirt soaked in Fairy Liquid take a picture and claim its waxws qith Zymol Vointage, no-one would know otherwise. But to see them in person, thats a different matter.


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

I think you reach a point where any price differences that can be justified by ingredients or the manufacturing process are out the window, and whether a product is "worth it" is totally down to the eye/judgement of the user.

I also think 99% of the work is in the prep - give some of the guys on here a bottle of SRP and they will make a car look better than many people would with thousands of pounds worth of products.

One thing I will say, and I've mentioned this before, is that even at a couple of grand, something like Vintage isn't _that expensive_ when you break it down into cost per application, and that it is refilled free for life.

Then again, if you don't like how it looks on your car, it's terrible value for money however high or low the price was.


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> Owing a great number of carnaubas, ranging from just £6 a tin (Simoniz Original) to near £300 a tin (Swissvax Mystery), I can honestly say that all the waxes I own do have there own little nuances and many suit different colours better than others. Some deliver wettness, others gloss, some are deeper than others. Differences are not huge on initial application but they are there, and in a detailers eyes, if you go to al the effort of perfecting the paint in the polishing stage, if the vastly more expensive wax delivers that little more in the finish, then its worth the extra - we're striving for the best we can here.
> 
> Now, on the durability side of things, there are a few things to consider. First, lets take the Collinite argument. Yes, this is a highly durable wax, but looks wise while it is good, it looses out to its more expensive competition like Zymol and Swissvax for example, and also less expensive waxes from Victoria. Yes, the differences are small and Collinite looks very good, but it does seem to loose out a little on looks compared to these ones in particular. This difference becomes more apparent as time goes by - one month on, the Collinite will still be beading fantastically, thats for sure but it will have lost its edge on the looks, the car no longer looks just waxed while one done with Swissvax Myster for example, looks just like it was waxed. This is another considering in durability - not just whether the LSP is still protecting, but whether it is holding its looks.
> 
> ...


Dave

Good points well made. I'm very much an amateur in this field and as such perhaps have amateur opinions, however I have seen a number of clean cars at various shows over the years and in all truth, I can't honestly say that certain ones have stuck out because of the wax that had been applied. I wonder how much marketing spin goes into the product. I wonder *just* how different one manufacturers carnuaba-based wax is from another, after all, that is the main composite used is it not?

Yes, Ive read the zymol gumf about white-carnuaba and yellow-carnuaba, but to be frank, considering you simply can't have pure carnuaba, all manufactures are, to an extent, using a percentage of wax and a percentage of other ingredients.

As for shine/looks/warmth etc.etc. you are getting into the highly emotive world of opinion. Again, this is where I would love to see the results of a double-blind test. I would wager a large sum of money that only a very, very small percentage of people (in fact probably no one) would get the right answers if blank pots of wax were put in front of them, along with several cars. Be it after 1 day, or 1 month. Of course this is just my opinion, but that's how I see it.

I think you've summed it up correctly with your comments about it being a hobby. If we had 1 wax available, it would be a dull life! I think this is one of the major reasons why the majority of us chop and change our choice of wax (and to that extent, most of our detailing supplies). I think this being a hobby, we treat it as we would another hobby/pastime that we enjoy and thus, like to debate over. As such, we are susceptible to the claims made by manufacturers all jostling for key space in the detailing industry, in order to take a piece of the pie. In much the same way that manufacturers do in every single other industry. It would appear to me that Marketing is at work in a very big way here, just as it is elsewhere.


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

Reg Hollis said:


> You obviously feel very strongly about it Will, and have already made your mind up. So vote with your feet and walk away from them. However, I don't agree with you and think that some of the more expensive LSP's really do stand out fromthe crowd, on a well prep'd surface.
> 
> What I also don't agree with is all the gushing posts about how wonderful a particular wax is when people are looking at a photograph taken by an unknow camera, on a £90 computer screen. I could go out now, wash my car with a old t-shirt soaked in Fairy Liquid take a picture and claim its waxws qith Zymol Vointage, no-one would know otherwise. But to see them in person, thats a different matter.


hi Reg,

Actually I don't feel strongly about it to be honest. I don't buy highly expensive waxes because I just can't justify it. However, *if* I saw someone else In the same car and it looked 10x better than what I perceived mine to look like, I would definately ask the owner what products had been applied, and regardless of the price, I would buy those products.

I am also in 100% agreement that preparation is *far* more important than the LSP.


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

willj said:


> Dave
> 
> Good points well made. I'm very much an amateur in this field and as such perhaps have amateur opinions, however I have seen a number of clean cars at various shows over the years and in all truth, I can't honestly say that certain ones have stuck out because of the wax that had been applied. I wonder how much marketing spin goes into the product. I wonder *just* how different one manufacturers carnuaba-based wax is from another, after all, that is the main composite used is it not?
> 
> ...


Cool, I was wrong, thank goodness for that.

I agree with all you have said in this post.

Its just that the original point was so concise to cover such a wide range of products, needs and view points.

Agreed its a highly subjective subject. Everything on detailing is and quiet often forgotten in discussions.

From a commercial detailing perspective the marketing effort is very important. It generates a clientele that demands this high-end product and finish. To meet it I have to invest in the expensive products to ensure the longevity of finish.

There are many finishing products that are loved on here that I can't use in my details as I know the finish does not last as long as some of the more expensive products. I see my customers once or twice a year so I need to know the finish will last and they won't be disappointed.

So if your operating commercially you can see the benefits from investing in a more expensive wax as it lasts, looks great, is demanded by your clientele and when used on a volume basis is very cost effective, even profitable.

I have invested in Swissvax Divine and it has more than paid for itself commercially.

To illustrate my point, consider wheel cleaners. Probably the most aggressive of products used in a detail (after polish  )

I have used many of the popular products, but over time have had problems with several on differing cars due to their nature and/or the finish of the wheel. I've settled on P21s Wheel Gel. Its the most expensive and I cringe every time I order 5ltrs, but I know I am 200% safe putting it on a customers car and not have a problem which is important when working on cars worth up £250k. Worth every penny for the piece of mind IMHO.

So apologies if I was a bit short earlier, I just thought you were dismissing an important differentiation between volume products vs. high-end products :thumb:


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

I also agree the finish of a £3k wax isn't 10 times better than a £30, that is not realistic 

I would also add, when you spend so much time looking at finished cars you develop an 'eye' and you can see subtle differences in waxes.


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

detailfinish said:


> I've settled on P21s Wheel Gel. Its the most expensive and I cringe every time I order 5ltrs, but I know I am 200% safe putting it on a customers car and not have a problem which is important when working on cars worth up £250k. Worth every penny for the piece of mind IMHO.


I may be teaching granny here, and it may not be practical, but FWIW you can get it from Porsche dealers for £10 a litre (badged Porsche but says made by Dr OK Wack on it).


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

To me, having worked my way through many many waxes I do feel you get a marked improvement proportional to spend. I've had a pot of Mystery for ages but have only just started to use it! Bought it for personal use before I ever went "commercial" but was too afraid to waste it (for want of a better explanation). Sceptical on a wax that cost 3 x more than my BOS but the results in my eyes were worth it. Having very recently made the next step, the same scepticism was there when I bought my Divine, but again in my eyes the end results appear worth the spend, but unlike DetailFinish I need to use it a lot more to re-coup the spend ha ha!

Tim


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

Envy said:


> To me, having worked my way through many many waxes I do feel you get a marked improvement proportional to spend. I've had a pot of Mystery for ages but have only just started to use it! Bought it for personal use before I ever went "commercial" but was too afraid to waste it (for want of a better explanation). Sceptical on a wax that cost 3 x more than my BOS but the results in my eyes were worth it. Having very recently made the next step, the same scepticism was there when I bought my Divine, but again in my eyes the end results appear worth the spend, but unlike DetailFinish I need to use it a lot more to re-coup the spend ha ha!
> 
> Tim


Tim, could you hand-on-heart say that the difference is not through you wanting to see a difference? My point being, would you imagine that joe bloggs could tell the difference between (for instance) BoS and Destiny?


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

willj said:


> Tim, could you hand-on-heart say that the difference is not through you wanting to see a difference? My point being, would you imagine that joe bloggs could tell the difference between (for instance) BoS and Destiny?


I would say no. But then it is a 50/50 chance of getting it right :speechles

The difference is perceivable in appearance, but go back in a few weeks and it might be more marked.

The important factor to remember its not just about the bling. For us who top the wax regularly we can retain this, but most people don't wax there car regularly so a product with a longer lasting shine and protection is worth the extra to them.


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

detailfinish said:


> Cool, I was wrong, thank goodness for that.
> 
> I agree with all you have said in this post.
> 
> ...


No problem. Reading my initial post again, it was a bit to-the-point. Easy to take the wrong way :thumb:


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

detailfinish said:


> I would say no. But then it is a 50/50 chance of getting it right :speechles
> 
> The difference is perceivable in appearance, but go back in a few weeks and it might be more marked.
> 
> The important factor to remember its not just about the bling. For us who top the wax regularly we can retain this, but most people don't wax there car regularly so a product with a longer lasting shine and protection is worth the extra to them.


I agree with you. I just can't seem to get past my earlier collinite argument.

Reason being that the people you say are not people who tend to wax their car regularly, are also the very same people who wouldn't know a quality wax from a halfords wash n wax. Whilst they may well know the odd name (ie zymol), that would only be due to good old Marketing; not from their knowledge of Zymol or its range.

Still, I can appreciate why as a Professional Detailer you would want to differentiate your service/product from someone who perhaps didn't offer high-end waxes as part of the process.


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

Agreed

I also carry Collinite 845s. I use in conjuction with Klasse AOI and Sealant Glaze on lighter cars. And I haven't had any complaints about the finish of these products :thumb:

But I should take the view of a private individual into consideration also.

When I was just doing my own cars I went as far as Zymol Titanium and Swissvax Saphir. It did seem expensive at the time, but it began my appreciation of what the extra cost can bring.

I still have some Titanium, would you like some to try?


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

detailfinish said:


> Agreed
> 
> I also carry Collinite 845s. I use in conjuction with Klasse AOI and Sealant Glaze on lighter cars. And I haven't had any complaints about the finish of these products :thumb:
> 
> ...


Did you notice a difference when you used Titanium / Saphir from what you were using before? (what were you using before?)

Thanks for the offer to try some but I've only just waxed mine - imagine this, it's £100k's worth of car and I'm using lowly Collinite 476s ! :lol:

When It comes time to rewax I may well dip my toe in the water, just to see if I can see any difference. I sit here thinking that I won't, but I would love to be prooven wrong. If nothing else it would give me another excuse to buy yet another product :thumb:


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

I believe I could, at the same time it wasn't too scientific as I also was aware of claying and paint cleaner/pre wax treatment.

But yes I do believe I did.

That said, this is Klasse Twins and Collinite 845s on my car and then a customers


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

And in a sense you are right, on this silver car the finish looks great and is going to last a LONG time.

I'd kinda make an exception of silver and white cars. IMVHO they respond better to acrylic finishes.

Which adds another dimension to the discussion, car colour.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

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Not this sh!t again, it's been done to death, do a search (just type in Zymol in the search function- it's up there^^ in between '*New Posts* and *Quick Links*)

Yes they're expensive, yes you can buy it cheaper elsewhere. But the same can be said for so many other things.

Why does a Bugatti Veyron cost nearly a million pounds, when you could spend 40 grand on an R34 Skyline GT-R, then spend about 100 grand getting it tuned to about 1000 bhp, they'd both be unbelievably (sp) fast, but one would be a lot cheaper even though it did the same thing?
But I should imagine that the Veyron engine would last longer as the engine wouldnt be as highly stressed as the highly tuned Skyline one.

Right I'm off to ask whats the best wax for "add colour here" paint? :wall: :wall: :wall:

Anyway group hug


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

detailfinish said:


> And in a sense you are right, on this silver car the finish looks great and is going to last a LONG time.
> 
> I'd kinda make an exception of silver and white cars. IMVHO they respond better to acrylic finishes.
> 
> Which adds another dimension to the discussion, car colour.


Yes, I think colour could play a big role. Good choice for an example btw, same as mine except mine is Seal Grey metallic. In a month or so I will try a "carlos fandango" wax and give my opinion, fwiw. :thumb:

ps. do you cover Surrey?


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

Alex L said:


> Not this sh!t again, it's been done to death, do a search (just type in Zymol in the search function- it's up there^^ in between '*New Posts* and *Quick Links*)
> 
> Yes they're expensive, yes you can buy it cheaper elsewhere. But the same can be said for so many other things.
> 
> ...


My apologies for posting.

Fwiw, your analogy is anything but. Even joe bloggs could tell the difference between a Veyron and a Nissan.

I did review the archives, and nothing I could find provided the answers I was looking for, or was the debate I was looking for.

And breathe...


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Sorry  

Depends whose looking at the car (I'd pick the Nissan)

But then comparing a nissan and a bugatti is like comparing Nattys and Zymol.


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

With Mystery and Divine pics of the same car I've done (eg BMW conv) I think I could tell the differance...
Maybe "blind" on a car I wasn't familiar with how the paint reacted to each wax no!

Tim


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

Alex, this is a slightly different conversation is it not? I thought it was going ok tbo, there were none of the usual product and/or trader loyalties clouding the posts.


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

Alex L said:


> Sorry
> 
> Depends whose looking at the car (I'd pick the Nissan)
> 
> But then comparing a nissan and a bugatti is like comparing Nattys and Zymol.


No it wouldn't be. Even my mother could tell that a Bugatti Veyron was a far more expensive car than a Nissan. The same couldn't be said for two different brands of carnuaba wax. To the majority of people.


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

willj said:


> Yes, I think colour could play a big role. Good choice for an example btw, same as mine except mine is Seal Grey metallic. In a month or so I will try a "carlos fandango" wax and give my opinion, fwiw. :thumb:
> 
> ps. do you cover Surrey?


Seal Grey is lovely, nice choice.

Can do Surrey, detailing in Newbury next week. I tend to bunch a few details together and make my way down from Chester.

Miracle is in your area, apparently he's quiet good :lol: ( Paul)


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

willj said:


> No it wouldn't be. Even my mother could tell that a Bugatti Veyron was a far more expensive car than a Nissan. The same couldn't be said for two different brands of carnuaba wax. To the majority of people.


Nattys packaging looks cheap, the zymol/swissvax tubs look like they've been thought about.

The contents in side may look similar, but then if you took the two engines you could argue that they're just two engines (although one would be 13.8 litres bigger than the other lol).


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## Padtwo (Apr 11, 2007)

OK. I'm not a wax connoisseur but I do like it, I just haven't been using it long enough to have had the chance to try several different brands. 
I have tried many of the Halfords bits tho. Now I tend to favour a mix of SRP, EGP, cleaner fluid and Japon. Having got a decent coat of Japon on the car, I've now been just putting another coat on once a month and am well happy with the results. Still beading a month later and looking good. On a different car I put some of the zymol cleaner wax on (using up old stock!) and it too looked great. A week later (or less) no beading wouldn't have known I'd put anything on the car.
Conclusions. Japon may not be the most expensive wax, but I'm happy with it and it's within budget, and I've proved to myself it's better than most of the shop bought stuff. May try the titanium/saphir next. Also, as you go up the scale what you are getting are great results that last, opposed to great results that deteriorate quickly. (I haven't used collinite so I wont comment).
The irony...
People that will spend loads of money on waxes (car cleaning stuff in general) are people who enjoy cleaning their cars:buffer: One of the reasons for buying the expensive stuff is the longevity of the finish so the car SHOULD need cleaning less frequently......lol
All IMHO


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

detailfinish said:


> To illustrate my point, consider wheel cleaners. Probably the most aggressive of products used in a detail (after polish  )
> 
> I have used many of the popular products, but over time have had problems with several on differing cars due to their nature and/or the finish of the wheel. I've settled on P21s Wheel Gel. Its the most expensive and I cringe every time I order 5ltrs, but I know I am 200% safe putting it on a customers car and not have a problem which is important when working on cars worth up £250k. Worth every penny for the piece of mind IMHO.


Your not wrong there! Whilst megs wheel brightner will **** all over it performance wise you don't want to be spraying it on expensive rims!!!


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## JJ_ (Oct 26, 2005)

Zymol has its place, it has a market which we can see in Detailing World. I think Zymol is good from what I have tested but say Nattys which is £12 or so. Carbon is not twice as good. The reason I have so many different products, polishes, glaze and waxes is because each product performs differently depending how I prep the paint or even the weather. 

I keep klasse twins and collinite for winter and I use in summer something which is a bit better looking. But in all honesty im hard pushed to buy zymol until they take defect reduction seriously. 

It cant be that difficult to make a defect removal polish if swissvax can do it then im sure Zymol can.


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

here's a curveball...

I wonder, if Collinite were made by Zymol and branded as such, along with an assuredly stratospheric price tag, just how many people would be positively salivating about it?

Does the cost of a wax scew one's sense of opinion regarding it?


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

I'd agree there is a certain amount of wanting to believe one has made the write choice that can influence one's perception of the outcomes.


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## Richy888 (Mar 18, 2007)

Here is my two pence worth  

Having not really dealt with waxes from a wide range with a range of price tags i agree with you points about would someone notice the difference between a car finished with zymol and a car finished with collinite. But i know your audience is joe bogs on the street but tbh does joe blogs really care what your car looks like? joe blogs is only interested in a cars moded appearnce and i doubt he really cares if it is clean or not. Just a thought. 

Most people clean there cars on here for personal appeal where they 'feel' by giving there car a coat of a more expensive wax that it makes it feel better to them. 

I am looking at a carnuba wax to try as i have been trying liquid wax at the moment and like it but want to try something new. 

Now Zymol is expensive yes and i recently got an accesory pack from cleanandshiny to see what the money was all about now the MF towel with it just looked like a hand towel out of a bathroom :doublesho but as soon as it was on the paintwork i could feel it was a quality towel it was soft and glided across the paintwork :thumb:

Some really good points here though and is an interesting debate :thumb: And will help my wax choice as i want to know what people reckon


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

Heres the truth 

Zymol isn't aimed at detailing world members 

Read from that what you will - trust me its all positive :thumb:


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

willj said:


> here's a curveball...
> 
> I wonder, if Collinite were made by Zymol and branded as such, along with an assuredly stratospheric price tag, just how many people would be positively salivating about it?
> 
> Does the cost of a wax scew one's sense of opinion regarding it?


Na, Collinite smells like crap and will peel the skin off your hands, these are also important factors in deciding to spend a small fortune on a wax!!!!

Maybe the cost does scew part of the experience, but diminishing returns and cost of production for lower volume products will cost you more money. You either choose to buy it or you don't.

Tonight i bought a suit that i have always wanted, I only tried it on on Saturday for the first time, but have wanted this brand of suit for ages.

After trying about eight plain black suits on, ranging significantly in price, I can say that the one I bought fitted legues better than the cheaper ones, it wasn't a particulary better material and all were the same colour. The wife thought it fitted well and better than the cheaper ones, the guy in the shop made me feel like i was buying an expensive item and I felt like i was getting something i wanted. This experience cannot be valued unless you yourself value it (you could also call it snobbery but each to their own). Did i spend more than i needed to on a suit - probably
but do i feel like i made a good purchase - definately.

Now this is way off topic, but ties in nicely to a post about a great customer service experience i had

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=26111

Since this i have added more layers to the car and the finish is awesome, but i could never tell anybody else that the wax was worth their money?

I feel it was worth my money, because i've already got so much out of it. I probably could have got 99% as good wax for a tenth the price and 90% as good for one hundred times less.

I'm just over the moon i did it.


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

Ok, I give in. I think I'll buy a pot of Swissvax BoS/Mystery or somesuch, and give my honest opinion of what I think of it. I'll remove the Collinite before I start.

Either I won't see the big picture and someone will get a good deal on a pot of mystery minus 1 application, or I'll be back here shouting about the amazing difference achieved from spending more on my wax.

Any Swissvax people in the house - I take bribes - this could go either way 

The car is Seal Grey metallic - would the two waxes I mentioned be a good choice? (I'm assuming so due to their assuredly expensive price...)


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

Don't buy, I'll send you a sample of BoS and Divine. 

PM'd


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

detailfinish said:


> Don't buy, I'll send you a sample of BoS and Divine.
> 
> PM'd


That's very kind of you. Thanks! :thumb:


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Bugger that, make him buy one, I want a cheap pot with one use taken from it!


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

Great debate, I have a fair selection of "low" end waxes P21s, nattys, souveran etc, I have concluded I must be nearly blind because I cannot see any difference at all in these or others like CMW, #26 etc......for me its the prep that makes the difference...........


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

m500dpp said:


> Great debate, I have a fair selection of "low" end waxes P21s, nattys, souveran etc, I have concluded I must be nearly blind because I cannot see any difference at all in these or others like CMW, #26 etc......for me its the prep that makes the difference...........


Agreed theres no point in spending money on expensive wax unless the prep is about as good as it gets. And no point evaluating lesser priced waxes on a poorly prepped surface


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

PhillipM said:


> Bugger that, make him buy one, I want a cheap pot with one use taken from it!


:lol:

Like your style !


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

And as you're in Surrey and local, I'll come and prep a panel for you and apply whatever wax you want to see. Unless you prep properly, it really doesn't matter what wax you use.

Happy for you to compare Swissvax directly against Zymol or Dodo or P21S or Souveran etc etc, as trying one wax only is hardly a fair or balanced test for you :thumb: 

As for being able to tell what a car's been waxed with, I was able to recently on Reg Hollis's Seat immediately - or it might have been a lucky guess. Spending £100's on a wax is never "worth it" but it's our hobby and you just gotta try em all out, haven't you?

The improvements you get in looks are marginal as you spend more and sometimes very hard to judge but it's not scientific as it's all about how the finiahed article looks to you.


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## giarc (Feb 8, 2006)

I wouldn't be so worried if Joe Bloggs can't tell the difference Will... If I can, and I'm buying the wax it's what I think


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## SimonW (Jun 3, 2007)

Chemical Guys XXX hardcore wax claims to have the highest percentage of carnauba wax of its price range (47% -10% of which is Yellow and (90% of which is white) 

But Zymol concours claims the sames figures (47% carnauba 10% yellow 90% white) yet its over £100 more expensive?

How can this be? and is there a differance in looks and durability?


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## drive 'n' shine (Apr 22, 2006)

exotic detail said:


> Chemical Guys XXX hardcore wax claims to have the highest percentage of carnauba wax of its price range (47% -10% of which is Yellow and (90% of which is white)
> 
> But Zymol concours claims the sames figures (47% carnauba 10% yellow 90% white) yet its over £100 more expensive?
> 
> How can this be? and is there a differance in looks and durability?


I used to think that until i brought some concours, don't get me wrong XXX is very good for the price, but there is a very noticeable difference in both looks and durability


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Isnt XXX pretty much Nattys white?


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Don't read too much into carnauba percentages - especially ones quoted by manufacturers. The only test is how the wax looks and lasts on a panel and whether you like it or not. Until Which? magazine do a massive group test with independent lab results I'd put the claims to one side and rely on first hand experience.

Another point - yes, you can certainly get better products as the price goes up, but price *does* influence opinions subconsciously. When I worked at Carlton TV, I was told a great story about the chap who played Burnside on the Bill. This colleague had arranged a photoshoot for some PR shots for the new series of Burnside (or whatever). They bought along a black suit for him to wear in his size, but he refused to wear it as it was a cheap one - 'I only wear labels' he said. So they went off to 'buy an Armani one'. When they got to a stockist/tailors, they asked the guy if he had any spare labels and when he said he had, they asked him to sew the Armani ones into the existing suit jacket. When Burnside later tried it on, he said 'lovely, fits much better'. 

The final point to note is that waxes tend to be 'tuned' to different characteristics, whether it's gloss, durability, ease of application etc. Even the best waxes in the world have to compromise in some areas to deliver better results in others - like Formula One cars go around corners really well but do lousy mpg compared to a Focus diesel. Wanting a wax that is 'better all round' is like wanting that F1 car to be fast, handle well, plus have more seats than a Scenic and do more mpg than a Prius. Look at the wax characteristics you want. Only detail your car once a year? Go for a durable wax. Detail it every fortnight? Go for a shinier one that doesn't last as long. Etc etc.

Hope some of this helps
Regards
DF


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

Dodo Factory said:


> Don't read too much into carnauba percentages - especially ones quoted by manufacturers. The only test is how the wax looks and lasts on a panel and whether you like it or not. Until Which? magazine do a massive group test with independent lab results I'd put the claims to one side and rely on first hand experience.
> 
> Another point - yes, you can certainly get better products as the price goes up, but price *does* influence opinions subconsciously. When I worked at Carlton TV, I was told a great story about the chap who played Burnside on the Bill. This colleague had arranged a photoshoot for some PR shots for the new series of Burnside (or whatever). They bought along a black suit for him to wear in his size, but he refused to wear it as it was a cheap one - 'I only wear labels' he said. So they went off to 'buy an Armani one'. When they got to a stockist/tailors, they asked the guy if he had any spare labels and when he said he had, they asked him to sew the Armani ones into the existing suit jacket. When Burnside later tried it on, he said 'lovely, fits much better'.
> 
> ...


Cracking post, cheers.  I certainly think that the cost element is directly attributable to the perceived result. No one wants to spend lots of money on a wax and think they've been conned.

If only I knew what a less-durable, shinier wax was I'd be a happy man.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

willj said:


> Cracking post, cheers. I certainly think that the cost element is directly attributable to the perceived result. No one wants to spend lots of money on a wax and think they've been conned.
> 
> If only I knew what a less-durable, shinier wax was I'd be a happy man.


P21S may be your ideal answer


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

Epoch said:


> P21S may be your ideal answer


It can't be. It's only cheap :thumb:


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

drive 'n' shine said:


> I used to think that until i brought some concours, don't get me wrong XXX is very good for the price, but there is a very noticeable difference in both looks and durability


 How many months durability did you get from Zymol Concours? (...or anyone elses experience of Concours durability?)


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Car Key said:


> How many months durability did you get from Zymol Concours? (...or anyone elses experience of Concours durability?)


I had two layers on the wife's car for 4 months and it still looked ace after a wash, beaded up beautifully.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Car Key said:


> How many months durability did you get from Zymol Concours? (...or anyone elses experience of Concours durability?)


We've had a good three to four months from Zymol Concours, and the beauty of this wax was it was found on Bryan's son's car that it very rarely needed a mitt wash to clean it - just rinsed or foamed and it cleaned the car.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

willj said:


> It can't be. It's only cheap :thumb:


But if your brief is best looking VFM with durability not a consideration P21s is supposed the be the boy.

Looks great, lasts a week

It is expensive if you keep applying it every week as it takes up time as well as product.

Think of the principle

CHEAP - LASTS - LOOKS GOOD

Pick any two of the above and you can find a wax of choice

CHEAP & LOOKS GOOD = NOT GONNA LAST = P21S
LASTS & LOOKS GOOD = NOT CHEAP = Zymol Concours
CHEAP & LASTS = DOESNT LOOK FANTASTIC = Collinite 476S


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## stargazer (Aug 9, 2006)

*Swisoll Wax*

I was using Black Fire Wet Diamond until I started using Swissol's wax.
The results speak for themseves. The lusture and flecks in the paintwork was noticable. The wax gave a much deeper finish too. Recent pics below waxed last Saturday before Sunday's show


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

Epoch said:


> But if your brief is best looking VFM with durability not a consideration P21s is supposed the be the boy.
> 
> Looks great, lasts a week
> 
> ...


Ah, but thats where we come full circle. I'd wager that the vast majority of people would not be able to tell the difference, in looks, between those 3 waxes.

Someone said something about a Which? magazine test (inc. chemical breakdown etc). Boy, would I love to see that. Although somehow I think there are too many parties with too much of a vested interest for it never to see the light of day.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

willj said:


> Ah, but thats where we come full circle. I'd wager that the vast majority of people would not be able to tell the difference, in looks, between those 3 waxes.
> 
> Someone said something about a Which? magazine test (inc. chemical breakdown etc). Boy, would I love to see that. Although somehow I think there are too many parties with too much of a vested interest for it never to see the light of day.


OK after 3 months the Concours would still look great, the Collinite may still be beading but wouldn't still look great and the P21S well what P21S.

So to see value in the difference on day one isn't the point!!!!!!


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## stargazer (Aug 9, 2006)

Dave KG said:


> Owing a great number of carnaubas, ranging from just £6 a tin (Simoniz Original) to near £300 a tin (Swissvax Mystery), I can honestly say that all the waxes I own do have there own little nuances and many suit different colours better than others. Some deliver wettness, others gloss, some are deeper than others. Differences are not huge on initial application but they are there, and in a detailers eyes, if you go to al the effort of perfecting the paint in the polishing stage, if the vastly more expensive wax delivers that little more in the finish, then its worth the extra - we're striving for the best we can here.
> 
> Now, on the durability side of things, there are a few things to consider. First, lets take the Collinite argument. Yes, this is a highly durable wax, but looks wise while it is good, it looses out to its more expensive competition like Zymol and Swissvax for example, and also less expensive waxes from Victoria. Yes, the differences are small and Collinite looks very good, but it does seem to loose out a little on looks compared to these ones in particular. This difference becomes more apparent as time goes by - one month on, the Collinite will still be beading fantastically, thats for sure but it will have lost its edge on the looks, the car no longer looks just waxed while one done with Swissvax Myster for example, looks just like it was waxed. This is another considering in durability - not just whether the LSP is still protecting, but whether it is holding its looks.
> 
> ...


Agreed^^


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

Epoch said:


> OK after 3 months the Concours would still look great, the Collinite may still be beading but wouldn't still look great and the P21S well what P21S.
> 
> So to see value in the difference on day one isn't the point!!!!!!


But If I pay a large sum of money for a bling wax, I want it to be just that. Else I could simply top up a far cheaper, equally good looking wax on a monthly/bi-monthly basis.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

willj said:


> But If I pay a large sum of money for a bling wax, I want it to be just that. Else I could simply top up a far cheaper, equally good looking wax on a monthly/bi-monthly basis.


OK why not do that then, saves you money in exchange for elbow grease. Good idea if it works for you

CHEAP AND LOOKS GOOD WINS


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

willj said:


> But If I pay a large sum of money for a bling wax, I want it to be just that. Else I could simply top up a far cheaper, equally good looking wax on a monthly/bi-monthly basis.


But if you use a wax say 4 times cheaper than Zymol Glasur (for example) but have to top it up 4 times as often, you save nothing at the end of the day...

As with all walks of life, you pays your money and you takes you choice - and if it makes us happy (those of us that do) to spend £xxx on a wax rather than £y on a wax then so be it - so long as we are happy and pleased in our own minds with our choices. I know from my carnauba collection I am more than happy with the investments I made in the premium waxes.


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> But if you use a wax say 4 times cheaper than Zymol Glasur (for example) but have to top it up 4 times as often, you save nothing at the end of the day...
> 
> As with all walks of life, you pays your money and you takes you choice - and if it makes us happy (those of us that do) to spend £xxx on a wax rather than £y on a wax then so be it - so long as we are happy and pleased in our own minds with our choices. I know from my carnauba collection I am more than happy with the investments I made in the premium waxes.


Stop writing things I agree with! Yep, I have no argument against people buying various different potions because they enjoy doing so. Hell, that's why I do - I'd be bored rigid if all that was available was in Halfords.

As I said in an earlier post, if there was a wax available that I (being a novice) could put on my car and immediately see a marked improvement, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it, regardless of cost. My quest to find such a product will continue, nevertheless.


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

Epoch said:


> OK why not do that then, saves you money in exchange for elbow grease. Good idea if it works for you
> 
> CHEAP AND LOOKS GOOD WINS


I could follow that up with "whats the best wax under £xxx ?" but then it would be pretty worthless as everyone would have their own opinion.

question:
Has anyone ever had an epiphany when putting a wax on? One that when finished they stood back and *really* thought, "blimey, that's the best wax I've ever used, no question"?


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Me when I put some Concours on after years of using Megs and Collonite.


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

Yes

When I first used Swissvax Best of Show, it startled me the difference. From then on in the differences become harder to define IMHO.


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

detailfinish said:


> Yes
> 
> When I first used Swissvax Best of Show, it startled me the difference. From then on in the differences become harder to define IMHO.


Damon, would you say the difference between BoS and Mystery is not worth the price differential? (Im just tossing up which one to try) :thumb:

ps. I've left u a VM.


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

Got VM, just working a few things out.

The diff is there, but its not much. Its the longevity that separates them. It sounds like you'll do a monthly top up, so I would recommend the BoS. A tub will last you at approx 3 years of monthly applications IMO (less needed than you think)


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

willj said:


> question:
> Has anyone ever had an epiphany when putting a wax on? One that when finished they stood back and *really* thought, "blimey, that's the best wax I've ever used, no question"?


Yes, and Bryan will confirm this, when I put Victoria Concours on my star silver I stood back after just doing the bonnet and thought - yes, this is a good one! It was the best had got silver paint to look, a lovely liquid gloss. And this wasn't an expensive wax either!!

On my black Volvo, I am using Mystery and I am truly proud of the way the car looks - its got a slight edge for me on the Best Of Show which has always been my premium goto wax - it is, without question, the best wax I have used on a dark colour so far.


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

detailfinish said:


> Got VM, just working a few things out.
> 
> The diff is there, but its not much. Its the longevity that separates them. It sounds like you'll do a monthly top up, so I would recommend the BoS. A tub will last you at approx 3 years of monthly applications IMO (less needed than you think)


Cheers, think I'll conduct my ever-so scientific test using BoS then!

Btw, if I'm too far away it's not a problem. :thumb: (your pm is full!)


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> Yes, and Bryan will confirm this, when I put Victoria Concours on my star silver I stood back after just doing the bonnet and thought - yes, this is a good one! It was the best had got silver paint to look, a lovely liquid gloss. And this wasn't an expensive wax either!!
> 
> On my black Volvo, I am using Mystery and I am truly proud of the way the car looks - its got a slight edge for me on the Best Of Show which has always been my premium goto wax - it is, without question, the best wax I have used on a dark colour so far.


Thanks for the info Dave. Being Seal Grey met, I'm not sure which camp my car falls into? I would imagine I should look for waxes that work better on dark cars? I would buy Mystery if *I* could tell the difference between it, and BoS.


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## Roc (Jul 20, 2006)

My car is dark blue and I prefer Carbon to BoS, yes it's still expensive, but not as. Everyone will have a different opinion on this anyhow.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

willj said:


> Thanks for the info Dave. Being Seal Grey met, I'm not sure which camp my car falls into? I would imagine I should look for waxes that work better on dark cars? I would buy Mystery if *I* could tell the difference between it, and BoS.


I would strongly consider having a dabble with Victoria Concours - you can get 3oz small jars for £16 IIRC, and in its price range this wax has alwayd hugely impressed me with its finish and the way it retains its finish. Two or three layers and the look gets better. For when I'm detailing without a premium wax, this is the wax I will use.


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## drnh (Jun 2, 2006)

I did actually read somthing once about how expensive the proccess of removing, and refining some of these oils and saps were.....will try and find it so we can all get another understanding of why some products are as expensive as they are.....

Daz


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

willj said:


> question:
> Has anyone ever had an epiphany when putting a wax on? One that when finished they stood back and *really* thought, "blimey, that's the best wax I've ever used, no question"?


Yep - Vintage last week but the "WOW" was tempered by the "I'll never be able to use it again" and then "is it a placebo?" - I'd say no to the latter as I had no axe to grind - it wasn't my wax anyway and I doubt that half of the forum would run out and spend £1800 on a wax just because of some pretty pics here! It's a stunning wax in terms of final look and from all accounts it lasts too - jury's out on that as it's a week old on my car but for sheer looks and walking round the car seeking new reflections (not to mention the way it repelled water) it does stand out.

However, my first proper epiphany was probably Souveran some years ago - first premium (as in £40) wax and it looked fantastic. I've subsequently found waxes with subtle improvements in depth, gloss and general bling factor - currently Onyx is my favourite given it's cost (£40ish) and performance - not great durability wise but does look nice.

You need to try a bunch of waxes for yourself to find your own favourite as you'll get a lot of differing (and in most cases quite right) opinion as everyone has their own preference.


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## Jace (Oct 26, 2005)

AndyC said:


> However, my first proper epiphany was probably Souveran some years ago - first premium (as in £40) wax and it looked fantastic. I've subsequently found waxes with subtle improvements in depth, gloss and general bling factor - currently Onyx is my favourite given it's cost (£40ish) and performance - not great durability wise but does look nice.
> 
> You need to try a bunch of waxes for yourself to find your own favourite as you'll get a lot of differing (and in most cases quite right) opinion as everyone has their own preference.


Agree with Andy here, I was an NXT man, then moved to P21S & thought WOW, I then took the plunge & spent £40 on Souveran, blimey was it a sight to make your eyes water after, pure dripping wetness, shame its such a short down poor.

I have quite a few waxes in my collection  & Souveran is still near the top, my favourite is Zymol Destiny, which I'm really saving until I get a new car later this year.

P21S, SOUVERAN, DODO, ZYMOL CARBON, HARLEY, COLLINITE 476/915 to name a few, all have their plus points but also negitives.

If given the choice to have 1 wax from my collection of waxes under £50, it'd go for a bottomless tub of Souveran, pure bling shine & apply it daily 

If I had the spare funds I'd like to try some of the top stuff from the Big Z, but for now its just a dream.

Remember, the wax is only the icing on the cake, if the prep is poor not even the best wax will be any good.


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

Here's an idea.

Why not send this chap some samples of waxes but not tell him what they are and see what his feedback is?

It's about as close to a blind test as you'll get, although of course it would be very difficult to measure durability.


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

hutchingsp said:


> Here's an idea.
> 
> Why not send this chap some samples of waxes but not tell him what they are and see what his feedback is?
> 
> It's about as close to a blind test as you'll get, although of course it would be very difficult to measure durability.


That's a bloody good idea. I don't just mean relative to this thread or my current dilemma.

How about a wax exchange where we send each other a sample but without naming what it is. We could conduct our own blind testing and we would all be quite possibly better informed for it. Who knows, there could be some excellent waxes out there that we aren't talking about too much.

Id certainly be up for that. Whats the general consensus?


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## giarc (Feb 8, 2006)

I'll give you £50 if somebody get natty's blue wrong


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

I've got a wax that nobody talks about that I really like the finish of - I'm thinking opf putting it on my car for a meet next month, perhaps Nottingham - and its only about £18 for an 11.5oz tin which may be a clue for some folks...


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

3M? Good stuff, VERY underrated.

I think this thread may hold the record for staying a sensible and mature discussion! :thumb:


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

detailfinish said:


> 3M? Good stuff, VERY underrated.
> 
> I think this thread may hold the record for staying a sensible and mature discussion! :thumb:


Well guesed! :thumb: And its solid in the tin too, it'll take me a lifetime to get through it! Goes well ontop of #7 and lasts well too I found. Smells not unlike Pinnacle Souveran.


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

Tim does these, they fit in the tin perfectly IIRC

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/accessories/handi-grip-applicator/prod_30.html


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

Be quiet! I'm gonna have to buy this bloody 3M stuff now.....christ


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## mojo555 (Apr 22, 2007)

How does zymol concours compare to these waxes mentioned or is there a better wax for my £160 and how does it compare to carbon....


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## Mr Shiny (Oct 29, 2005)

Where can you buy the 3M paste wax from?


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## leistrum (Feb 10, 2007)

I agree with Reg Hollis on this one, I have photos of mine when just washed and sprayed with some Blackfire quick detailing spray that look like some of the afters in the show it off section - amazing wet look relections. But then if you got close up to mine then you would see all the swirls. Not Sure if the shine would look quite as good if I was using Halfords own etc.


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## Jace (Oct 26, 2005)

I found that the beading/water displacement of Dodo Purple & Zymol Destiny to be very similar, even though the ZD is 16x the Dodo price

However, I'm sure the life span will be less, maybe not 16x less though.....



More here http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=34826&page=2


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## Evosid (Apr 7, 2007)

Wow, what a thread. as a:newbie: i am still getting to grops whith all these waxes, so ber with me.
I have bought Poorboys Natty's blue, found it ok but not any better than Meguiars NXT.
Also got Zymol Carbon and found it better that the above 2.
So the question is what to buy next for up to £50-70.
Cars are 
1. 2007 Audi A6 in Daytona Grey (dark Grey) used as daily driver and covers 500-600 miles each week and gets washed every week, sometimes twice a week.
2. 2006 Honda CRV in dark grey used by the wife as a daily driver and does 200-300 miles every week and gets washed every week or second week.
3. 1999 EVO VI done 18,ooo miles since i have owned it from new. Used on nice days and gets cleaned after use prior t being put away in garage. Sometinmes after every use other times after every week.

So question is which wax(s) to suit above. I am willing to wash cars every week and apply wax every 2-4 weeks in summer and less so in winter.

Could any one offer any advice please vefore i buy something not suitable.

As a final thought i found Zymol good especially after 2nd coat and it is still beading after 2000 miles and 4 weeks.

Sid


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## Evosid (Apr 7, 2007)

OOPS,
Forgot to say that i am looking for a really good deep and wet shine, ie some bling. Some durability ie 4-8 weeks would be good.

Sid


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## scoobyiain (Nov 16, 2006)

I have the following waxes on my car
concours = £164
destiny = £486
ital = £360
titanium = £67
845 = £16
nattys = £12 

All applied to a different panel 2 months ago. There was a slight visable difference considering the car had not been prepped but the durability is the main difference. Destiny was applied to my spoiler and boot and have not needed to put a wash mit near it since applied, same with the destiny and ital. The titanium does need to be washed with a mit but still beads quite well as does the collonite. Nattys was good for approx 2-3 weeks then needed to re-apply.


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

Thanks for that Iain, that agrees with my experiences :thumb:


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## Rich (Oct 26, 2005)

Looks wise I struggle to see any real differences from a 20 quid pot of P21s compared to Zymol Destiny with lots of other things inbetween over a proper prep. Swissvax Onyx for example looks almost the same as the Best of Show on my car.

The main selling advantage to the higher end stuff for me is how it lasts, after a week has passed and the car gets it's first wash wash my old faves of Pinnacle Souveran and P21s would not end up looking as if it had just been applied and I would find myself having to re apply. On the other end of the scale a wash over a four week application of Swissvax Best of Show and the car will look as good as when it was just applied without even the need for a quick detail spray. This is where the extra money becomes worth it's while, you will never achieve that with the likes of Nattys Blue, P21s and Souveran unfortunately. Swissvax Onyx has become my entry level choice of wax these days as it the cheapest product that I have found to do the above.


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

update 

I've bought some Zymol Concours from the 50% deal on zdouk.com (well it would have been rude not to). I plan to test it shortly. I'll post my thoughts after


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## superstring (Mar 25, 2007)

Hey folks! I was doing a search for something else and came across this older thread. I can't stand not knowing: willj, did you ever use the ***** Concours and what did you think???


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## TriBorG (Feb 14, 2007)

Ok having read through this post from the start and probably having misses a few points here is a question or two

A wax that lasts 3 Months Does this mean that you would not rewax the car for 3 months..... hummmm Since most of us are addicts I think that if you were to wax the car in January I bet my last pound that you would be out waxing it again before April,

Oh and for the detailers on this site surley it is in your interest for the car to require waxing frequently extra ££££ 

I could understand spending £20.00 on a tub of wax possably even up to £100 but some of the prices of the Top Top Wax goes for many £100s more 

I think that it is a little like the kings magic cloaths story..... if you are detailing a car and you tell somone that you are slapping on £400 wax then it will make them feel special but would they really really really .....tell the difference 

My views !

Gary


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## willj (May 26, 2007)

superstring said:


> Hey folks! I was doing a search for something else and came across this older thread. I can't stand not knowing: willj, did you ever use the ***** Concours and what did you think???


Sorry for never responding - although better late than never 

Yes I bought the Concours. In fact I used it again only today.

What's my opinion? I like it. It's easy to apply and remove. It is quite durable (roughly 12wks for me), and I think (although this is only my perception) that it is warmer/more radiant than Collinite. I will continue to Collinite throughout the autumn/winter, whilst using Concours during spring/summer.

However - I would never pay its ticket price. But then I wouldn't pay that amount of money out on *any* wax. Period.

As has been said far too many times on here, "it's all in the prep". It's most certainly not how much your wax cost - however much certain manufacturers would want you to believe. :thumb:


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2009)

*******

Can someone tell me what "*****" means and why you are not allowed to post the real name? I imagine you'll have to pm me. 
Thanks.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

fat tony said:


> Can someone tell me what "*****" means and why you are not allowed to post the real name? I imagine you'll have to pm me.
> Thanks.


this has been asked many times before, its because zym0l don't like their name being 'advertised' without permission


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

detailfinish said:


> The qualities of a more expensive wax are wider than just the initial bling.
> 
> The durability really goes up as you spend more.


I'd have to disagree there, it has been reported on the forum that some waxes look good, cost more but don't last long like say AG HD or Collinte 476, one has to trade off which they desire most.


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## Crockers (Mar 30, 2008)

I use Collinite 486 but if I wanted to use a differing wax to give a more wet look do i have to remove the Collinite first (by polishing the car) or can it be applied over the existing to build up the protection....


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

detailfinish said:


> The qualities of a more expensive wax are wider than just the initial bling.
> 
> The durability really goes up as you spend more.


thats complete and utter rubbish. NO expensive wax offers any more than a £20 wax like collinite offers.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

fiestadetailer said:


> thats complete and utter rubbish. NO expensive wax offers any more than a £20 wax like collinite offers.


I'm not so sure, I must confess the longer curing time of AG HD makes for easy application , I have only seen one post featuring colly but the ones I have seen featuring AG HD always look fab :thumb: but is it worth £20 more? I don't know but then what would I do with the £20 saved  well actually it is less money saved as looking in the right places AG HD can be had for under £30


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

I have a £1 tub of wax I use on bumpers and wheels thats still beading water ages after some of my expensive waxes.
Having said that its a swine to buff off.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

Avanti said:


> I'm not so sure, I must confess the longer curing time of AG HD makes for easy application , I have only seen one post featuring colly but the ones I have seen featuring AG HD always look fab :thumb: but is it worth £20 more? I don't know but then what would I do with the £20 saved  well actually it is less money saved as looking in the right places AG HD can be had for under £30


don't get me wrong, i'm all for waxes upto say the £40 area (vics, AG HD colly etc etc) but i can't see what £100 + waxes are supposed to offer thats so much better than cheaper waxes.


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## buff not enuf (Sep 29, 2008)

Me to you prep a car and do a 50/50 shot with swissvax bos and collinite and you will see the diffrence


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

buff not enuf said:


> Me to you prep a car and do a 50/50 shot with swissvax bos and collinite and you will see the diffrence


what difference would that be? ive seen DaveKG's wax thread and theres no difference between any of them that i can see


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

fiestadetailer said:


> don't get me wrong, i'm all for waxes upto say the £40 area (vics, AG HD colly etc etc) but i can't see what £100 + waxes are supposed to offer thats so much better than cheaper waxes.


Indeed, but I wouldn't like to say until I have tried one, I did think similar in the past about liquid waxes vs hard waxes .
On the way home from work on a Tuesday n Thursday I always see a red Porsche, the one time I asked him what wax he was using on his car, I must say I was shocked when he said TW .


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

RoverIain said:


> I have a £1 tub of wax I use on bumpers and wheels thats still beading water ages after some of my expensive waxes.
> Having said that its a swine to buff off.


If you are on about the car pride wax or similar, that is because they contain a lot of silicone ca 30% and less than 10% carnauba, they do the job though and as for application, a panel at a time and buff off and it will present no more problem than the pricer stuff.


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## buff not enuf (Sep 29, 2008)

fiestadetailer said:


> what difference would that be? ive seen DaveKG's wax thread and theres no difference between any of them that i can see


I have done this myself and i could tell the diffrence and so could others.:argie:


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Avanti said:


> On the way home from work on a Tuesday n Thursday I always see a red Porsche, the one time I asked him what wax he was using on his car, I must say I was shocked when he said TW .


I use turtle wax sometimes and even though its a bugger to get off if you over apply it,it always looks decent enough.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

RoverIain said:


> I use turtle wax sometimes and even though its a bugger to get off if you over apply it,it always looks decent enough.


Any product is a bugger to remove if excessivley applied, but following the instructions pose 's little problem, the Porsche did look nice but I don't think it was platinum that he applied to it 
If he let me get my hands on it, I would apply RG 42 after a machine polish :thumb:


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## dazzlers82 (May 8, 2007)

Avanti said:


> I'm not so sure, I must confess the longer curing time of AG HD makes for easy application , I have only seen one post featuring colly but the ones I have seen featuring AG HD always look fab :thumb: but is it worth £20 more? I don't know but then what would I do with the £20 saved  well actually it is less money saved as looking in the right places AG HD can be had for under £30


i pay £25 a tub for hd and it is easy to apply an does leave the car looking very nice an not only that i applied 1 coat in september last year and it was still beading nively when i added another coat in feb so 5 months is not bad for one coat :thumb:


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

buff not enuf said:


> I have done this myself and i could tell the diffrence and so could others.:argie:


thats fair enough, just voicing my opinion:thumb:


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Avanti said:


> Any product is a bugger to remove if excessivley applied, but following the instructions pose 's little problem, :


Aha now you say that but after watching my old man slather his bonnet in MY tec wax 2 I was amazed how easy it came off.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

dazzlers82 said:


> i pay £25 a tub for hd and it is easy to apply an does leave the car looking very nice an not only that i applied 1 coat in september last year and it was still beading nively when i added another coat in feb so 5 months is not bad for one coat :thumb:


Indeed , I paid £17 for mine so feel even better, having used it , I would have happily paid the £40 for it if I had to :thumb:


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## dazzlers82 (May 8, 2007)

Avanti said:


> Indeed , I paid £17 for mine so feel even better, having used it , I would have happily paid the £40 for it if I had to :thumb:


my first tub i did pay full price for but as you have said it is worth £40 every day of the week:thumb:


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

Currently, using Swissvax BOS... which im v.happy with although have AG HD and admit to being very good but i just find it a PITA to buff off compared with the BOS...although i admit to currently using the AG on the wheels just as a test...


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Ninja59 said:


> Currently, using Swissvax BOS... which im v.happy with although have AG HD and admit to being very good but i just find it a PITA to buff off compared with the BOS...although i admit to currently using the AG on the wheels just as a test...


Having used liquid waxes on the wheels, that is what I will continue to use on the alloys from here on end , easir and less messy than spray and prolly works out cheaper, especially as I can get Williams Carnauba enriched polish for £2.5 for 500ml :thumb:


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

at the endv of the day though it's all personal taste tbh...i am going to seal them as well as leaving the wax layer below just for even more benefit, although i have to say they are looking brill after getting some advice of here


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## karl_liverpool (Sep 25, 2008)

my most expensive wax to date is rboe. i love the looks it gets and the smell is fab. just not really a wax for workin mobile in winter lol. summertime this will be my main wax tho

for winter months i use rainforest rub. which has been very easy to use even in very cold weather. and leaves a nice finish behind 

but for speed and ease. i use the cartec gold liquid wax that pampos had samples of a while back. from his post i tried it and have to say it is so easy to use. literally wipe on wipe off no buffing needed and it holds out well. and can be layered over a carnuba layer to seal it all in

on painted rims i always use some colly915 it seems to add extra bling to the edges of wheels


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## Neofolis (Jun 10, 2009)

I've seen a few mentions recently of a wax that costs £2500/tub and, when they showed the stuff on Fifth Gear, it was a fairly normal sized tub.

If I was paying £2500, I would want something that sealed my car forever and made it stay looking the same as the day I'd used it without ever having to wash the car again.

If there are cheaper products that can give the same appearance but don't last as long, then surely that just offers more opportunity to indulge in the hobby by re-applying more frequently. If there are cheaper products that last as long, but don't look as good or don't look as good for as long, can they really look that much worse.

I'm sure if you want to spend £2500 to make a car look better, there are plenty of options better than spending it just on wax.

All that said, if I had a £1,000,000 hyper car or a 1950's Ferrari California and money was somewhat irrelevant, I would have no objections to paying for £2500 wax, but then I'd also have no problem with paying for a full detail regularly enough that cheaper products would keep it looking just as good.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

as has been said many times before, more or less all of the finish is in the prep work, expensive waxes are just that - expensive. imo, a £200 wax for example offers no more in terms of looks or durability than the tub of collinite 915 or the tub of FK1000p that i have. only difference is an empty wallet


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

fiestadetailer said:


> as has been said many times before, more or less all of the finish is in the prep work, expensive waxes are just that - expensive. imo, a £200 wax for example offers no more in terms of looks or durability than the tub of collinite 915 or the tub of FK1000p that i have. only difference is an empty wallet


Durability I'd agree with, but as per Dave's post, not looks. Waxes like BoS keep that 'just waxed' look for MUCH longer than Colli and 1000P. This is where the value comes in IMO.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

RussZS said:


> Durability I'd agree with, but as per Dave's post, not looks. Waxes like BoS keep that 'just waxed' look for MUCH longer than Colli and 1000P. This is where the value comes in IMO.


true, sealants seem to be the same. the fiestas got two coats of Z2 on it atm and looks very shiney still even with a couple of weeks worth of dust and dirt on it. shinner than when it had collinite 915 on it before. i just can't see why that can justify a wax costing £100's just because looks shinner between washes


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## CliveP (Feb 1, 2009)

RussZS said:


> Durability I'd agree with, but as per Dave's post, not looks. Waxes like BoS keep that 'just waxed' look for MUCH longer than Colli and 1000P. This is where the value comes in IMO.


Of course you can apply Collinite 915 much more regularly so keeping that just cleaned look can still cost less because of the number of coats you could apply of say Collinite 915 compared to the same cost of the more expensive ones....

In a way though I think it has little to do with price/value. Fundamentally we want to try new things, we want the next product, whether it costs more or not, as our fascination in this hobby, at least in part, is because we think it can always look that little bit 'better' which is why you end up with a lot of part used products, all of which you love!

I keep koi carp, and it's exactly the same - you can have a koi for a £5, £500, £5000 or £50000....or any other number you care to mention. When I started I said I'd never spend more than £500 on one...now I travel to Japan just to select them and the number has gone up. The differences are subtle but something about some fish just get you and the price of a new car on one fish seems to pale into insignificance if the beauty just holds you....

Regards,
Clive.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

detailfinish said:


> 3M? Good stuff, VERY underrated.
> 
> I think this thread may hold the record for staying a sensible and mature discussion! :thumb:


I thought I was the only one on the forum that has used the 3M show shine .:thumb:


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## GazT4R` (Apr 20, 2009)

Ninja59 said:


> Currently, using Swissvax BOS... which im v.happy with although have AG HD and admit to being very good but i just find it a PITA to buff off compared with the BOS...although i admit to currently using the AG on the wheels just as a test...


With you there on the AG HD, little difficult to buff off but I find that only when I had applied it a little too thickly, usually when you first refill the pad from the pot. 
Price wise (think I picked it up for under £30) it comes with two applicators and a MF cloth plus it lasts well and looks good on my silver S60R so I'm happy with it and sticking with it for now, until I got some more pennies to try another wax, polish,pad..... the list is endless. God damn you Detailing World :lol:.
Used AG EG on the wheels, see what it does although my wheels are pretty fubared, laquer peeling and the like.
Gaz


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

jesus how old is this thread!!!


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## weemax (Sep 30, 2008)

Crystal Finish said:


> jesus how old is this thread!!!


Exactly 2 years old today!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY THREAD!

:buffer:
:lol::lol:


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