# Solvent heavy LSP's.



## DD1 (Apr 25, 2011)

Never thought about this before, learning all the time on here 

What are the solvent wax's and what advantage disadvantage are they.

I have the following, were would these fall ?

1. Dodo orange
2. r22
3. Valentine's Concours
4. Naviwax

cheers


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Collinite


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

DD1 said:


> Never thought about this before, learning all the time on here
> 
> What are the solvent wax's and what advantage disadvantage are they.
> 
> ...


the only 1 with any concern out of them is naviwax, the rest are fine.


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## DD1 (Apr 25, 2011)

but what are the concerns about ?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

DD1 said:


> but what are the concerns about ?


solvents are a natural cleaner, so when you use a solvent heavy wax the solvents remove anything previously applied to the paint. there not just a physical cleaner ( need agitation) they also dissolve the previous product.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Naviwax is fine.....


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

type[r]+ said:


> Naviwax is fine.....


sorry naviwax is solvent heavy not as heavy as colli/fk1000 but still heavy enough to remove tar off paint.


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## JJ_ (Oct 26, 2005)

With the solvent stuff just wear hand protection, I don't use any heavy solvent based products as I have a very sensitive nose ! Haha 

The natural oils can also be irritants just depends on the oils and the concentrations levels


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

cheekymonkey said:


> sorry naviwax is solvent heavy not as heavy as colli/fk1000 but still heavy enough to remove tar off paint.


If they used odourless solvent, you wouldn't even know. You can remove tar off paint with any wax if you work at it long enough. 

You can layer this wax pretty quickly no worries at all. :thumb:

Naviwax actually advertise the cleaning ability on the tin. It's not that much.

For those of you who cant read Japanese:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

type[r]+ said:


> If they used odourless solvent, you wouldn't even know. You can remove tar off paint with any wax if you work at it long enough.
> 
> You can layer this wax pretty quickly no worries at all. :thumb:
> 
> ...


firstly try removing tar with dodo or vics red. it wont remove it at all. when you remove the lid of naviwax you can smell its solvent heavy. your right about the cleaning ability, its down to the solvents, and if they promote the cleaning ability's that would question how well it layers. Now i'm not saying its a bad wax, infact i've been using it for years. Theres just others with less harsh solvents so are more suited to some situations


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Here is their cleaner glaze Cheekymonkey!


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Dont go thinking your nice smelling waxes aren't solvent heavy....


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

type[r]+ said:


> Here is their cleaner glaze Cheekymonkey!


thats not available over here just the wax which i have plus the ultimate.
try the ultimate if you get a chance its a step up from the dark/light


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

type[r]+ said:


> Dont go thinking your nice smelling waxes aren't solvent heavy....


I take nothing by the smell of any product. Infact i dont see the need and in some cases think its dangerous. I dont take that much notice to what it says on the tin as most of its marketing. What i do like to do is test them. 1 test is removing tar from a panel, another is to handle the wax with bare hands. if it is solvent heavy then my skin will dry out, also i have a panel that is in a bad way just by using a wax alone see if it can clean up part of the panel and some can some cant some takes no time at all. where as others take a lot of hard rubbing. the cleaning of the panel is down to the solvents in the product. I never buy a product or keep a product because it smell nice.:thumb:


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## great gonzo (Nov 4, 2010)

My dodo home brew has a full bottle of solvent in it! Does that make the dodo waxes solvent heavy?


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## Damien89 (May 13, 2007)

JJ_ said:


> With the solvent stuff just wear hand protection, I don't use any heavy solvent based products as I have a very sensitive nose ! Haha
> 
> The natural oils can also be irritants just depends on the oils and the concentrations levels


So that is why after applying colli 845 i get a runny nose and burning eyes for a whole two days :wall::wall::wall:

Anything as good as colli 845 that does not have these effects???


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

great gonzo said:


> My dodo home brew has a full bottle of solvent in it! Does that make the dodo waxes solvent heavy?


all waxes contain solvents, its the amount of solvent and what type of solvent that is used is the problem. i've not got the home brew but do have other dodo waxes which are all fine. they are not solvent heavy.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Damien89 said:


> So that is why after applying colli 845 i get a runny nose and burning eyes for a whole two days :wall::wall::wall:
> 
> Anything as good as colli 845 that does not have these effects???


if it does that to you how can it be good? 
there are a lot of products out there that are good. It just depends what you want from a product.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Ben Gum said:


> I have noticed that the products people are using on here are increasingly dangerous. The fave non-acid wheel cleaner is corrosive. The most popular decontaminating products are harmful, TFRs increasingly are using carcinogens, waxes with hazard symbols... Personally I try to buy the least dangerous products I can but this is not the norm on here anymore.


Ben, an observation, and a request if I may.

You raise these potentially valid points when it suits you. And from what I understand you have some sort of background in the area... But have you thought about creating a run down of what's dangerous and what's not.

Or, if you don't want to name and shame.... your list of "non-dangerous" detailing products?

That, would be* useful* for all on here us as an enlightenment exercise, and to potentially draw our own conclusions of risk vs. hazard now and in the future.

If you have a genuine ability in an area where you potentially see concern, it would be a shame not to use it. :thumb:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Problem with that PJB is you just get someone's opinion, and the 'facts' will always be debatable. 

Take MSDS sheets for instance. Most people have NFI how to read them, and what they actually are.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Ben Gum said:


> I have a bit of background and have been doing a course because of a new work collaboration but I would be reluctant to put my head above the wall too much because I suspect the manufacturers might object and take it off!!
> 
> Maybe when I have a bit of time I will go one step less far and make a list of products and just the hazards the manufacturers themselves include - at least then I wouldnt be stating anything more than is already on the labels and could not be accused of any bias. *You think that would be worth doing so that people could see them all side by side and decide for themselves?*


Fair enough, and totally understand regarding "head above the parapit". But yes, just that a bit of context for us non-specialists maybe. As long, as you say, it isn't biased or alarmist.

Start mentioning risks, hazard, and dangerous, and although it might be large scale quanities of certain ingredients from the MSDS that are the real risk - it can still be a bit alarming to end users.

Even a basic grade of, the following based on a consideration, such as "Treat like water" (i.e. no problem), "Treat like detergent" (Use gloves?), treat like solvent (use gloves + ). etc?


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

type[r]+ said:


> Problem with that PJB is you just get someone's opinion, and the 'facts' will always be debatable.
> 
> Take MSDS sheets for instance. Most people have NFI how to read them, and what they actually are.


See comment above bud. Totally agree. It was more a point to say; if those people with some element of training are going to mention things. Why not be more open and suggest why, in there opinion it is important, what precautions they'd see as necessary etc.

Lots of specialists across different fields have opinions once it gets beyond dogma. It's just a case of substaniating them and being open I guess?

To me, that's better than snippets of information about certain things, at certain times, for effect!

*OP* - forgive the off topic. As you were :thumb:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

i to have seen a change on here. to me its now more about valeting not detailing


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## JJ_ (Oct 26, 2005)

cheekymonkey said:


> all waxes contain solvents.


Not true

You can make a wax without the use of a solvent, you need a "carrier" to make the wax spreadable. However, you do not require a solvent to make a wax by any means.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

JJ_ said:


> Not true
> 
> You can make a wax without the use of a solvent, you need a "carrier" to make the wax spreadable. However, you do not require a solvent to make a wax by any means.


so what waxes dont have solvents


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Ben Gum said:


> Or maybe it is just a sign of the economy... people are short of cash so are choosing to make a bit more using the bulk chemicals which are more dangerous rather than the more expensive ones which do the same job but with less hazard.
> 
> What I'll do, if I get time, is pick a couple of product types and list the info on the label for the most popular examples. Don't think there is point going much further because a lot of MSDS are not available (even though this is not really optional according to the law!!). I'll send you something through over the next couple of days PJB.


i mean in the sense people look at filler product instead of removing. some times cheap products are a false economy.


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## Damien89 (May 13, 2007)

cheekymonkey said:


> if it does that to you how can it be good?
> there are a lot of products out there that are good. It just depends what you want from a product.


Its great to apply and remove and lasts quite a bit but its effects are awful after usage.


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## JJ_ (Oct 26, 2005)

Damien89 said:


> Its great to apply and remove and lasts quite a bit but its effects are awful after usage.


If you are suffering that bad from the wax I would put it up for sale, is your health really worth it ?

Plenty more waxes avail, just out of interest have you had an allergy test ? You may find another wax with solvents ok ?

Do you get this with anything else ?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Damien89 said:


> Its great to apply and remove and lasts quite a bit but its effects are awful after usage.


mate there are products out there that are easier to apply easier to remove and last well. why put your self through that. all waxes contain solvents but colli is 1 of the mast solvent heavy ones there is.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

cheekymonkey said:


> i mean in the sense people look at filler product instead of removing. some times cheap products are a false economy.


Horses for courses that one. But in a way I agree, and am part of the filler crowd that's to blame. Don't forget there's a much wider audience out there for it these days... in that sense, it probably does lead to more casual followers as well as the dedicated few who were there when it was really niche! Like many hobbies/movements.

I put myself in the casual bracket too. Don't have time time, dedication or set up for some of this. Just take what suits me. Fortunately, there are great products for both. Although, whilst I don't correct fully, I do appreciate a nice quality product in all other areas, and happy to spend all day plus fettling.



cheekymonkey said:


> mate there are products out there that are easier to apply easier to remove and last well. why put your self through that. all waxes contain solvents but colli is 1 of the mast solvent heavy ones there is.


Agree. If it made me feel that bad I'd be changing in a heartbeat! I hate the way tardis makes me feel, harder to replace that one it seems


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

-PJB- said:


> Horses for courses that one. But in a way I agree, and am part of the filler crowd that's to blame. Don't forget there's a much wider audience out there for it these days... in that sense, it probably does lead to more casual followers as well as the dedicated few who were there when it was really niche! Like many hobbies/movements.
> 
> I put myself in the casual bracket too. Don't have time time, dedication or set up for some of this. Just take what suits me. Fortunately, there are great products for both. Although, whilst I don't correct fully, I do appreciate a nice quality product in all other areas, and happy to spend all day plus fettling.
> 
> Agree. If it made me feel that bad I'd be changing in a heartbeat! I hate the way tardis makes me feel, harder to replace that one it seems


fillers do have there place and i do use them my self, but only till i can do it right. i also use them on other peoples who just want a quick clean up and thats where i believe there use is, as in a valet.


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

DD1 said:


> Never thought about this before, learning all the time on here
> 
> What are the solvent wax's and what advantage disadvantage are they.
> 
> ...


What do you mean by solvent heavy? Water is a solvent.

Swissvax waxes which most people think are all natural are 60%+ Alkanes which are basically seperated from oil by fractional distillation. As pointed out earlier the smell has nothing to do with it as you can get odourless or very low odour solvents which are then hidden further by adding perfumes to make them smell special.


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## Damien89 (May 13, 2007)

JJ_ said:


> If you are suffering that bad from the wax I would put it up for sale, is your health really worth it ?
> 
> Plenty more waxes avail, just out of interest have you had an allergy test ? You may find another wax with solvents ok ?
> 
> Do you get this with anything else ?


Sometimes with srp but not as bad


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## Damien89 (May 13, 2007)

cheekymonkey said:


> mate there are products out there that are easier to apply easier to remove and last well. why put your self through that. all waxes contain solvents but colli is 1 of the mast solvent heavy ones there is.


Which are these products please?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Damien89 said:


> Which are these products please?


there are plenty check in the showroom or reviews to see what products suit your needs:thumb:


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## Damien89 (May 13, 2007)

cheekymonkey said:


> there are plenty check in the showroom or reviews to see what products suit your needs:thumb:


Can someone name some waxes which have less solvents than colli 845 but work as good please?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Damien89 said:


> Can someone name some waxes which have less solvents than colli 845 but work as good please?


what type are you after paste or liquid and what price range.


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## waxy (Feb 27, 2006)

JJ_ said:


> Not true
> 
> You can make a wax without the use of a solvent, you need a "carrier" to make the wax spreadable. However, you do not require a solvent to make a wax by any means.


Water is a solvent,as is orange oil.


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## JJ_ (Oct 26, 2005)

waxy said:


> Water is a solvent,as is orange oil.


Thanks, I know that. There are waxes which don't use these :thumb:


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## Clean-my-sxi (Feb 5, 2008)

with the likes of fk100p and fk pink wax, which clearly smell of solvent, would this not mean they would remove a glaze that is placed underneath


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## waxy (Feb 27, 2006)

JJ_ said:


> Thanks, I know that. There are waxes which don't use these :thumb:


Yes,but they will use another 'type' of solvent.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

JJ_ said:


> Thanks, I know that. There are waxes which don't use these :thumb:


:thumb:


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## Damien89 (May 13, 2007)

cheekymonkey said:


> what type are you after paste or liquid and what price range.


Same type as colli 845


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## Matt91 (Sep 25, 2011)

So where's this latest scare/hysteria come from? 
Haven't we all been 'layering' waxes (especially 845) for years without anyone saying that the solvents will strip previous layers?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Matt91 said:


> So where's this latest scare/hysteria come from?
> Haven't we all been 'layering' waxes (especially 845) for years without anyone saying that the solvents will strip previous layers?


no i havent never used 845 and theres more to it then just layering it


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Does this mean the 845 ive just bought will remove a glaze applied before?


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## DJBAILEY (May 7, 2011)

Even with a true solvent meant to be used as an solvent like Klean-Strip Prep-All® Wax & Grease Remover the directions advise to thoroughly cover the surface area and let dwell for 1 minute then wipe dry.

So I don't see how a quick swipe leaving a very thin layer of wax that flashes in less than a minute would have that much cleaning affect to worry about.


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## JJ_ (Oct 26, 2005)

waxy said:


> Yes,but they will use another 'type' of solvent.


If you use natural oils and not kerosene etc then it is a different ball game, they don't affect the wax in the same way as a typical solvent you would find in waxes that you may be used to using. :thumb: Plus they moisturise your hands at the same time mmmmmm soft hands :lol:


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