# I've been driving without road tax!!...



## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

I had a brown letter on the doormat when I got in on Wednesday night, from the DVLA.

Thinking it was maybe a reminder about my car tax being out at the end of the month, I opens it to find in bit fat print WARNING YOUR VEHICLE IS NOT TAXED!

Having never seen one off these before I wondered what the hell they were talking about. I bought the car back on November 1st, and the garage taxed it for me so it was road-legal when I collected it.

So, I rang the DVLA Wednesday night to find out what's going on. They told me that with the new system (no disc), the garage would have taxed it for the 1st November, but when the car gets signed over to my name the remainder of the tax gets reimbursed to the garage, and I've gotta tax it all over again! 

At the bottom of the letter it states that I have to pay £75, which is the outstanding tax due on the car since the 16th November (when the car was put across to my name), and also to tax the car from NOW so that I can drive it on the road.

When I spoke to the DVLA person, I said to them in shock that this means I've been driving MY car on the ROAD with no tax since 16th November. To which he obviously said "correct". He also told me to not sound so surprised as there are 1000's who are currently doing the same, not being aware that their car is no longer taxed.

So obviously I coughed up the £75, and paid for six months tax, of which he told my I WILL be reminded is due when the time comes for renewal.

When I on to the garage I bought the car from Yesterday, telling them they owe me £75, as I had paid THEM for six months tax upon purchase of the vehicle, the bloke on the end tried fobbing me off telling me that as they're not the previous owner, surely the money would have been refunded to the previous owner. To which I replied by saying, well that would be YOU, otherwise I've paid you for a vehicle that didn't belong to YOU.

Seriously, if you've recently become the owner of a vehicle, check your car is taxed online using :

https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax

I could have had my car taken off the road at any time since 16th November!


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## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

I think you have also technically been driving uninsured whilst not having a valid tax disc


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## bradleymarky (Nov 29, 2013)

I`m pretty sure car dealers cant claim the tax back anymore.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

bradleymarky said:


> I`m pretty sure car dealers cant claim the tax back anymore.


They can't. The remaining road tax is sent back to the previous keeper..

Over the years I've lost count of the amount of people that require reminding that their tax is up and it's pointed out by people who noticed their disc. Without the disc there is going to be a lot of people completely unaware and have forgotten about their tax.


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

bradleymarky said:


> I`m pretty sure car dealers cant claim the tax back anymore.


The DVLA bloke told me they different. Here's a quote from the letter :

"Since 1 October 2014 the vehicle tax rules have changed. Now, when you buy or sell a vehicle, the tax is no longer transferred as part of the sale. When you bought this vehicle the seller would have automatically received a refund of any remaining tax.

This applies even if you or the seller thought it was sold with tax. This information was included with the vehicle registration certificate (V5C) we sent you."

When the bloke at the garage told me it would have been paid back to the previous owner, I told them that I'm not too bothered as that's THEIR problem. I bought the vehicle with tax from THEM, and so I want the garage to refund me. If they need to claim the money back from the previous owner, that's their problem. After all, when I bought the vehicle and mentioned the 'new' tax system, they told me in good faith that there will be no problem, and the car will be taxed.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Your nothing but a Kriminal.


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

S63 said:


> Your nothing but a Kriminal.


Krim by name, Krim by nature :thumb:

I said to the DVLA man, I've never had anything like this in all the years I've been driving....totally shocked me. Bloody computerised systems; I'd rather go back to having a VISUAL disc stuck in my windscreen.


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## SBM (Jul 4, 2013)

The tax renewal for the juke was done at the end of January. its under the new system. what I did is set up a monthly direct debit. that way its not forgotten and should we ever sell it we just stop the debit.

The S4 is due end of June so will do the same for that:thumb:


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## M4D YN (Nov 24, 2007)

Got me thinking now so went and tried to check it online,two cars not showing
up,anyone know why??


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## BrummyPete (Jun 10, 2010)

This happened to me but a slightly different situation, my v5 turned up after I bought my car in January, unfortunately they had got my name wrong so sent it back to change it, 2 weeks later I get a refund from the dvla , they had classed me as another registered owner and automatically refunded me the tax back so had to go online and renew sharpish.


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## tightlines (Jul 16, 2011)

i was looking at a new car a few weeks ago that was an ex demo and the salesman said there would be a charge for the tax, i didnt think they could do that anyore


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

tightlines said:


> i was looking at a new car a few weeks ago that was an ex demo and the salesman said there would be a charge for the tax, i didnt think they could do that anyore


They can't. The government are on to a huge winner here. Anyone selling a car gets a refund for any full months left but new owner can only tax for a full month. So everytime a car is sold it is taxed for 2months (1 by each person). So you sell on 15th , seller can only claim back from following month so paid up to end of month. New owner then taxes it but has to back date it to 1st of month!!


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## tyreman (Jan 28, 2007)

When you buy a car now you can tax it straight away with the unique number on the new owner part of the V5, so in theory a dealer could do this in your name and just pass the cost on to you, hence why a charge for tax on an ex demo ?.
Also I've "attended" a few untaxed cars lately and a few people are getting conned by sellers saying the car is taxed and guilable buyers believing them !


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## Mick (Jan 23, 2010)

M4D YN said:


> Got me thinking now so went and tried to check it online,two cars not showing
> up,anyone know why??


Both yours showed up for me fine on Firefox (possible a cache/ internet browser issue) :thumb:


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## neilb62 (Jul 30, 2007)

I bought mine the day after the law changed, it was quite surreal taxing the car in the previous owners kitchen on my iPad!


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

Tut tut.

At least you will be more careful in the future.

:thumb:


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## M4D YN (Nov 24, 2007)

Mick said:


> Both yours showed up for me fine on Firefox (possible a cache/ internet browser issue) :thumb:


Thanks Mr W,i seem to have had it a while mind i said to you :wall:


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## Crafoo (Oct 27, 2013)

Did the DVLA not send out a letter regarding this last year? I could have sworn I got something through the post before it actually changed on 1st October.


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

Sorry to go slightly off topic guys but when you sell a car do you have to do anything to stop the current tax and claim a refund or does it do it when you send the v5 back to record a change of ownership?


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## Crafoo (Oct 27, 2013)

Guitarjon said:


> Sorry to go slightly off topic guys but when you sell a car do you have to do anything to stop the current tax and claim a refund or does it do it when you send the v5 back to record a change of ownership?


It's supposedly done automatically mate


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

What about if you remove a private reg from a vehicle and have the original put back on.

Will the dvla switch the tax the new reg on the vehicle or does the owner have to do that.

The owner of tha vehicle in this instance remains the same, there is no sale.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

also in theory, you can buy a car with tax on until you get home, which after a few days the previous owner will have sent off the V5, which also begs the question, how long until you can tax it, if the previous owner doesn't send the V5 off next day, and may wait up to a week before posting it?


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## sdp101 (Feb 28, 2015)

tyreman said:


> When you buy a car now you can tax it straight away with the unique number on the new owner part of the V5, so in theory a dealer could do this in your name and just pass the cost on to you, hence why a charge for tax on an ex demo ?.
> Also I've "attended" a few untaxed cars lately and a few people are getting conned by sellers saying the car is taxed and guilable buyers believing them !


That's exactly what my dealer did in February when I bought a 6 month old car. He gave me the post office receipt as proof. It was still showing up as sorn on the dvla website for near a week, so being paranoid I left the receipt in the car for the first week in case I was stopped!

As it seems to be linked to the v5c , I'd say that any changes that require this to be updated will mean you need to re-tax it. I guess if you did it at the end of the month, and use the v5c new keepers details (see here) to renew the tax the following day (i.e. the 1st of the month) you shouldn't loose out?


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

Update : I had a phone call from the Dealership Yesterday with regards to me wanting my £75 back. They checked their accounts and couldn't see any DVLA tax refund, so contacted the previous owner. The previous owner has also denied any refund from the DVLA.

So, the question lies who's telling the truth? Are the DVLA simply pressing computer buttons now, and removing vehicles from the tax register, or is one of the others not admitting to having the money in their account?

I want the old system back. God only knows what would have happened if I got pulled over by the cops during this period of not being taxed - I guess I could've ended up with my car being pounded, and me walking home!


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## aerodynamic18 (Feb 12, 2011)

Was the car new?


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

aerodynamic18 said:


> Was the car new?


Nah. It's a 2011 plate

The dealership finally agreed to refund me the £75, out of courtesy... :lol: ...courtesy? I'd say out of what's right and what's wrong.

I think next time I'll just go ahead and start paying by Direct Debit - it seems to be the only guaranteed way to keep your car taxed.


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

Kriminal said:


> Update : I had a phone call from the Dealership Yesterday with regards to me wanting my £75 back. They checked their accounts and couldn't see any DVLA tax refund, so contacted the previous owner. The previous owner has also denied any refund from the DVLA.
> 
> So, the question lies who's telling the truth? Are the DVLA simply pressing computer buttons now, and removing vehicles from the tax register, or is one of the others not admitting to having the money in their account?
> 
> I want the old system back. God only knows what would have happened if I got pulled over by the cops during this period of not being taxed - I guess I could've ended up with my car being pounded, and me walking home!


Keep in mind they send a cheque so depending on timing it might not have arrived, or may just be laying on the dining room table waiting to be paid in like the cheque I got for the tax refund for my old car is.


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## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

Kriminal said:


> When I on to the garage I bought the car from Yesterday, telling them they owe me £75, as I had paid THEM for six months tax upon purchase of the vehicle, the bloke on the end tried fobbing me off telling me that as they're not the previous owner, surely the money would have been refunded to the previous owner. To which I replied by saying, well that would be YOU, otherwise I've paid you for a vehicle that didn't belong to YOU.


I think it is still the case that a motor trader can't claim the refund of tax. Any unused tax will be refunded direct to the last registered keeper (which doesn't include the trader, unless he has taxed the car for his own use or the use of his business).

However, they should still be able to purchase VED on the behalf of the new owner when they sell it. They obviously charged you for doing this, but did not carry it out, so you are quite correct to claim a refund of the £75 from them.

Paperless VED is all very well, but of course with a paper disc, had you recieved the car without a disc in the windscreen (or one which had expired) you would have been alerted to the situation immediately. I miss having the disc.


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## ZAFBLOKE (Mar 6, 2015)

bidderman1969 said:


> also in theory, you can buy a car with tax on until you get home, which after a few days the previous owner will have sent off the V5, which also begs the question, how long until you can tax it, if the previous owner doesn't send the V5 off next day, and may wait up to a week before posting it?


Not true the rule is new owner new tax, the previous owner should retain the disc if it has one and you tax it yourself via the new keeper supplement before it leaves the old keepers address

Any tax the previous keeper had is of no concern to the new keeper whether it is taxed or not


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## The_Weasel (Nov 23, 2006)

Seems you aren't alone
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ands-new-owners-caught-tax-disc-loophole.html


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## ZAFBLOKE (Mar 6, 2015)

Kriminal said:


> Update : I had a phone call from the Dealership Yesterday with regards to me wanting my £75 back. They checked their accounts and couldn't see any DVLA tax refund, so contacted the previous owner. The previous owner has also denied any refund from the DVLA.
> 
> So, the question lies who's telling the truth? Are the DVLA simply pressing computer buttons now, and removing vehicles from the tax register, or is one of the others not admitting to having the money in their account?
> 
> I want the old system back. God only knows what would have happened if I got pulled over by the cops during this period of not being taxed - I guess I could've ended up with my car being pounded, and me walking home!


Correct car would have been impounded and you would have been fined and had to pay the fees to release the vehicle and some are even charging a refundable surety fee


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## ZAFBLOKE (Mar 6, 2015)

Kriminal said:


> Nah. It's a 2011 plate
> 
> The dealership finally agreed to refund me the £75, out of courtesy... :lol: ...courtesy? I'd say out of what's right and what's wrong.
> 
> I think next time I'll just go ahead and start paying by Direct Debit - it seems to be the only guaranteed way to keep your car taxed.


Doing it by DD is all very well, but remember you are then passing the trust to your bank to ensure it is paid every month, personally I prefer to just pay the yearly fee and retain the receipt until database is updated and then sit back until the next renewal comes through the post and enjoy the years worry free motoring


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

ZAFBLOKE said:


> Not true the rule is new owner new tax, the previous owner should retain the disc if it has one and you tax it yourself via the new keeper supplement before it leaves the old keepers address
> 
> Any tax the previous keeper had is of no concern to the new keeper whether it is taxed or not


You won't in theory be "picked up" by driving the car home as change of ownership can't be done there and then, so "in theory" why would you be stopped? After about a week when all the paperwork is done then you be registered as the new keeper, possibly, which is why this really is a stupid stupid idea by the gov


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ands-new-owners-caught-tax-disc-loophole.html


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

MDC250 said:


> I think you have also technically been driving uninsured whilst not having a valid tax disc


Technically you're speaking rubbish :thumb: :lol:

VED has no bearing on insurance cover.


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## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

Bero said:


> Technically you're speaking rubbish :thumb: :lol:
> 
> VED has no bearing on insurance cover.


I stand corrected


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

Now, don't laugh, but I've just forwarded my 'story' on to BBC Watchdog.

I think the more people who are made aware of this, the better. Looking at the links supplied for the Daily Mail report, it's obvious I'm not alone in this matter, and got off pretty damned lightly. If my car was clamped and pounded I'd definitely be a less happy person right now.


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## R&SKXA (May 19, 2013)

DVLA should have put the tax on fuel.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

In answer to the question about changing the plates, if the registered keeper has not changed then the tax on the vehicle is still valid, as I have just done it myself.

On the V5 it says I will automatically get a refund on unspent tax along with notification that I am no longer responsible for the vehicle after I send my part of the V5 to the DVLA.

As for wondering what to do because you don't have a disk to look at, I have as have we all got reminders sent to us in plenty of time before the tax actually runs out. I find it very convenient to do it on line and not have to find all my documents and traipes to the Post Office.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Andy from Sandy said:


> In answer to the question about changing the plates, if the registered keeper has not changed then the tax on the vehicle is still valid, as I have just done it myself.
> 
> *On the V5 it says I will automatically get a refund on unspent tax along with notification that I am no longer responsible for the vehicle after I send my part of the V5 to the DVLA.*
> 
> As for wondering what to do because you don't have a disk to look at, I have as have we all got reminders sent to us in plenty of time before the tax actually runs out. I find it very convenient to do it on line and not have to find all my documents and traipes to the Post Office.


this is what i was getting at


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

http://www.northantstelegraph.co.uk...rned-of-changes-amid-clamping-surge-1-6690324

JUST SEEN THIS ON OUR LOCAL PAPER SITE


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## tyreman (Jan 28, 2007)

The way it works for us in Chesire is we don't impound if payment is available,but you are required to make a surety which allows you fourteen days to tax the vehicle and then claim the surety fee back,but the refund can only be issued by the contractor who issues it,so if your're on a long trip and get caught you could have a few miles to do to get your money back!.


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## Jack (May 14, 2007)

Just seen this thread and checked a car I got a few weeks ago, woops, no road tax. I just went and paid for it online.


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

I know as drivers we are meant to be totally clued up on everything the authorities make changes to but I can't help thinking that it's more critical for businesses selling cars to make their customers clear on what's what as well. Surely they should know better than anyone? 

I'm not saying drivers are blameless but if it was my business to know something like taxing a car, which I'm then going to sell as taxed and I'm not up to date then it would be my failing as a seller. Private selling is different but businessment surely should be able to inform customers. 

It's all a load of pants now anyway! lol


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

Alex_225 said:


> I know as drivers we are meant to be totally clued up on everything the authorities make changes to but I can't help thinking that it's more critical for businesses selling cars to make their customers clear on what's what as well. Surely they should know better than anyone?
> 
> I'm not saying drivers are blameless but if it was my business to know something like taxing a car, which I'm then going to sell as taxed and I'm not up to date then it would be my failing as a seller. Private selling is different but businessment surely should be able to inform customers.
> 
> It's all a load of pants now anyway! lol


I totally agree. The DVLA did say that ALL garages/dealerships were made aware of the changes/rules that apply.

When I purchased the car, I did question the bloke if the tax would be okay, due to it being in 'their' name. His response was that it was, as they'd done it many a time now.


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

Kriminal said:


> Now, don't laugh, but I've just forwarded my 'story' on to BBC Watchdog.
> 
> I think the more people who are made aware of this, the better. Looking at the links supplied for the Daily Mail report, it's obvious I'm not alone in this matter, and got off pretty damned lightly. If my car was clamped and pounded I'd definitely be a less happy person right now.


^ Update on above : I had a phone call from Charlotte at BBC Watchdog Today - she was interested to find out more info about what happened. She said that there have been several of us sending in about this, and are interested in including it in there next series, out shortly.

Fingers crossed more people will be made aware that they could be driving illegally :thumb:


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

We're relying more and more on computers every year, what happens if it crashes and erases our tax history???? Least you'd nornally have a piece of paper in your windscreen as proof


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

bidderman1969 said:


> We're relying more and more on computers every year, what happens if it crashes and erases our tax history???? Least you'd nornally have a piece of paper in your windscreen as proof


That happens in movies, not real life.

Backups of backups.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

Jack said:


> Just seen this thread and checked a car I got a few weeks ago, woops, no road tax. I just went and paid for it online.


Yeah it happened the same to me but now I have month gap in tax as we bought car on 1/5/15 but paid tax from 1/6/15 ... how I can pay the month difference ? or would I get letter with intruction how to pay ?


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Why would you want to? Say nothing unless you hear otherwise


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## jambo. (Jun 3, 2014)

Similar situation here, paid 6 months tax by direct debit at start of December 2014, cancelled the direct debit a month ago as I didn't want the next payment to come out before pay day so was just going to pay by card, went to pay online at the end of may to be greeted by a message saying my tax was due to run out at the end of November 2015, checked dvla site and its showing as tax due 1st December 2015


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