# Incorrect use of DA Polisher?



## Dorsetred159 (Jul 10, 2014)

Been lurking for a while but this is my first post…

Got a swirled re-sprayed Alfa 159, so decided, from reading on here and watching on Youtube, that I’d remove the swirls, give it a good machine polish and glaze over the top.

So bought a 850w DA Polisher, set of sponge pads (Or, Yell, White, Green, Grey), Farecla G3 scratch remover, and Resin Polish and Autoglym Glaze.

Started off by washing the car and claying it all over till smooth. All good
Next step was G3 on a primed orange pad over 2 ft square area, then hand wiped off. Then resin polish on a white pad and hand wiped off followed by hand applied glaze and hand buffed off.


All done on a dull day and all looked good until the sun shone….then I could see loads of haze deep below and swirls and holograms. Aaargh!

I’m know I have not cut through the clear coat but the base colour ( red) now seems hazy and when initially doing the swirl removal I never got (as some of the videos say) the swirl remover to go clear ( I did 6 passes over a 2 foot square area at a time). Did not go with a softer pads as I had what I thought were quite heavy swirls initially , was this a mistake? Can I go back and work this haze off: I bought a DA polisher on the basis I could not do to much damage or have I not gone deep enough? I’ve read somewhere that DA Polishers may not cut through enough..? Or maybe I should ditch the G3 for something kinder, or is it too late?

Any advice would be welcome, I appreciate that a description is not the same as seeing, but there may be something that stands out to someone experienced that I have missed.

Cheers

Keith


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

G3 I consider an outdated compound,what you've missed is a refining stage and went to the glaze.


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## Dorsetred159 (Jul 10, 2014)

Thanks: could you suggest a better compound please and then I presume I'd work through the grades of pads to refine?


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## superd (Sep 23, 2013)

Personally I use scholl s17+ and s40 I'm no expert by a long way and you will get many different answers from different folk, meguairs 105 and 205 are also popular used with chemical guys hex logic pads. Also you must wipe down with ipa between sets.hope I've shed some light things for you


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## srod (Dec 31, 2010)

Meguiars 101 and 205 for me. Note that these do not use diminishing abrasives and so when using a DA, you have to vary the pressure you apply (as well as the speed of course). Thoroughly recommended products.


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

Meguiars would also be my choice. Not used the G3 scratch remover, is it designed for machine use? Had a (very) quick search and it seems to be deigned for hand application. If you have gone to the trouble and expense of buying a DAS6-Pro than get some products which are designed to work with it. It will make life easier. When you get some polishes, always start by doing a test section with the least aggressive products first.

Just as an aside, it is not that easy to damage paint with a DA but it is possible. It is hard to describe the misery when your polishing and primer suddenly becomes visible


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## Dorsetred159 (Jul 10, 2014)

Thanks. I have actually gone through to the primer where there was a scratch and I rubbed it by hand so I know that feeling.. managed to disguise it with some touch up however! Will look into machine designed products, as you say G3 seems to be for hand application and is a diminishing abrasive.


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## Sh1ner (May 19, 2012)

G3 is a perfectly good compound and used correctly by hand da or rotary will still give excellent results but as Suspal says there are improved compounds that are easier to use and also stain less. G3 is the worst for staining trim and paint that I have ever used. I always mask off if I have to use it.
Never put G3 straight onto paint in blobs or leave blobs to work to it will stain, just work what is on the pad as soon as it hits the panel. 
That said, even with G3 you should be able to see your paint is swirl free and ready for refining before you spend time and effort actually doing it. You may find a torch useful. Shone at different angles it will shows swirls and defects that otherwise appear invisible.
G3 is however a compound and will always be aggressive, more or less so, depending on the choice of pad so as Lowe says better to start with a cutting polish something like Megs 205 and a white hexlogic pad that you can work quite hard and then check the results and then go with a more aggressive compound M101 and green pad if necessary or perhaps a less aggressive black or maybe red pad if the marks have polished out easily.
M205 easily gets rid of most light swirling and as suggested the refining stage of polishing is all important.
Always use the least aggressive product you can get away with whilst you learn what the various products you have chosen to use, do. It is harder work but it will probably save you ruining your paint.
If you have the opportunity I would see if you can find an old bonnet or door and buy a sheet of 3000 wet and dry paper to mark the paint and then practise what you need to do to polish out the marks. Experience is essential and it is a great way of getting it.
Failing that if you have to use your own car, start gentle, work up if necessary and only tackle one panel at a time.
The stuff you have will work fine but you will need to learn how to use them to get the best from them. That said there are easier products to use out there.


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## Dorsetred159 (Jul 10, 2014)

I did mask off so ticked that box and always primed the pad, and spread it "by hand" before switching on. Regarding the paint there seems to be an underlying haze instead of a deep shine and I guess I need to go back to basics and use a different product such as the M 205 and see if I can refine and if not try M101. I take your point about the pads too.Thanks again!


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## Sh1ner (May 19, 2012)

G3 will work and finish down well so you can just wax it and it would be acceptable to most but it is not the easiest compound to use. It was the compound we used all those years ago when I started. I have used it for years and have no fear of it but it can be a bugger.
I would try a softer pad first, makesure it is not overloaded, just a few pea size drops, with compound then work the panel until the G3 leaves a haze but do not run it dry then give it a very light spritz with water and go over it again as the compound breaks down it will refine the finish. If that improves things try something softer again and see what the results are like then.
It is worth saying you must make sure what is on the pad is grit and dirt free G3 does have a habit of drying around the edges and can be rock hard so only use from the soft part of the pot.
One bit of grit on the pad can make a worse mess of the panel than when you started.
Practice panels are best but if you have a friend with a dull coloured car or something that has not been cleaned for a long while, is as flat as a pancake and they are not really worried about it might be worth a practice on that rather than your Alfa.


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## jamie_s (Jul 10, 2009)

As said g3 is a perfectly good cutting compound. But if the haze is as bad as you say, you probably didn't work it for very long and break it down ( the abrasives get finer as you go so finish better the longer you work it) so as people have suggested, it needs refining. If you want to go out and buy some, then Halfords sell the g3 medium compound too. 10 quid and it should do what you want it to. I usually use 3m fast cut (equivalent of the g3 compound you've used) then 3m extrafine (medium cut refining compound) the g3 with the yellow label at Halfords does a similar job the the extra fine. Not the best but does the job! Also you're using a da so you'll need to work it for a fair few passes.


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## Dorsetred159 (Jul 10, 2014)

My G3 is a liquid in a black bottle and I wonder, from reading around and Sh1ner's description, if it may be different to the stuff used in body shops all those years ago? I also do wonder if I got the pad a bit dry too as I had to throw it after doing the car...


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## trv8 (Dec 30, 2007)

So you are on-about the 'G3' range of products ie....

http://www.g3pro.com/product/body-prep-shampoo/


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

trv8 said:


> So you are on-about the 'G3' range of products ie....
> 
> http://www.g3pro.com/product/body-prep-shampoo/


I have assumed this to be http://www.g3pro.com/product/g3-permanent-scratch-remover from the consumer range. It may well be derived from the pro version or maybe completely different


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## Dorsetred159 (Jul 10, 2014)

Yes it is that range, I used their clay mitt to good results having used bilt-h clay previously


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## jamie_s (Jul 10, 2009)

That's the one I thought he'd been using too. Part of the range I as talking about. They do a refining compound in the same black bottle with a yellow label instead of green. I'd recommend it


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## Jonnybbad (Jun 12, 2013)

I think the g3 op is using comes in a white tube with yellow label my bodyshop guy uses it with good results but in the wrong hand can cause various issues


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## Dorsetred159 (Jul 10, 2014)

Jonnybbad said:


> I think the g3 op is using comes in a white tube with yellow label my bodyshop guy uses it with good results but in the wrong hand can cause various issues


No, its the stuff in the black bottle and luckily I think it is kinder than the pro bodyshop stuff (in the wrong hands)!


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## Sh1ner (May 19, 2012)

I thought it might be the black bottles but the advice hopefully still stands.
I am assuming the orange pad is too aggressive and coupled with possibly slightly too much compound is marring the paint because it is impossible to work it down to a fine finish with such a coarse foam. The G3 may break down but the hard foam can then marr the finish just as easily especially when it all gets a bit warm.
Try a pad two or maybe three grades softer so you can work the G3, don't go silly to the point where it dries and overheats or you labour the machine. Keep it lightly misted when it starts to dry soon after you have passed an area.
Don't try and work too fast, work steadily on an area until you get what you are after then you know what you are in for overall.
It is honestly all about experience, different paints etc etc.
It helps to reduce the speed of the polisher step by step as everything fines down and you start to see the finish you are after.
Once you get your eye in you should be able to see the potential of the finish even after the initial stage.
Best of luck.


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## Dorsetred159 (Jul 10, 2014)

Following the advice here, I had a go today on my 147 which was similarly hazed with the original G3 treatment. I used M 205 first and it gave me a good deep shine but there were still some swirls so switched to a harsher pad and M101 and then back up to M205 and softer pad. Got a really nice finish, so then used Farecla Resin Polish and then a Autoglym glaze. Looks so much better with a nice deep shine and almost no swirls/holograms. Took much longer doing it, worked on a smaller area and used more pressure too. Hopefully when I do the 159 it will be as successful! Thanks for the tips all!


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## Robbiewebs (Jun 24, 2013)

Sorry to butt in but just wondered why u needed to use the Garcia resin polish after the 205?
I was always led to believe that 205 was the last stage of refining?
I can understand the glaze if u had a few bits to cover up.
Going to give mine my first go with 205 this week to remove fine wash swirls was all 

Robbie


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## Dorsetred159 (Jul 10, 2014)

Used it because I had it but take your point as the 205 is a polish too.

Incidentally, just so I can judge how much 205 I'm using on my pad, I'll expect to use a full 8 oz bottle when I finish the whole car. Does that sound about right or am I being a bit generous?


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

After refining with 205 then you go into a stage called jewelling. This can be done with anything upto another 3 products gradually getting finer and finer until you are using basically an oil glaze to really ping the flake ( so it looks like diamonds in the paint hence the name jewelling ).
Give it a shot you will be amazed at the extra depth and bling you can add in the mix


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

Dorsetred159 said:


> ......Incidentally, just so I can judge how much 205 I'm using on my pad, I'll expect to use a full 8 oz bottle when I finish the whole car. Does that sound about right or am I being a bit generous?


Here is a useful thread on priming a pad http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ow-prime-foam-pad-when-using-da-polisher.html. Kevin Brown has written extensively on this subject so might be worth searching for his threads on DW and elsewhere.

If you use 8oz of Megs 205 on a car then it is safe to say you are being more than generous


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Or it one hell of a car.
What is it a super stretch hummer???


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## Dorsetred159 (Jul 10, 2014)

lowejackson said:


> Here is a useful thread on priming a pad http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ow-prime-foam-pad-when-using-da-polisher.html. Kevin Brown has written extensively on this subject so might be worth searching for his threads on DW and elsewhere.
> 
> If you use 8oz of Megs 205 on a car then it is safe to say you are being more than generous


Yes, I'd already looked at that and feel Ok that I've primed the pad sufficiently. But what I guess comes down to experience, is knowing how much product should be used thereafter and it sounds as if I'm being a bit generous on that front.


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## Dorsetred159 (Jul 10, 2014)

AllenF said:


> Or it one hell of a car.
> What is it a super stretch hummer???


Alfa 147 but it is the long wheelbase version.....!:lol:


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

The long or the very bloody long version LOL


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

:lol:

I can reiterate what someone else said about #105 and #205, they are pressure dependant. I gave one wing of The Tank a polish to remove a scratch(it didn't so needs wet sanding) and swirls. Started with #205 as i had no idea if it needed a harsher cut, soon found it did and went to #105 on an orange hex logic pad. I'm still learning how much pressure to apply and how quickly you can move it but i did remove most of the swirls, i guess if i had refined it further with #205 i would have got a better result, it is however a learning curve.


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## Dorsetred159 (Jul 10, 2014)

AllenF said:


> After refining with 205 then you go into a stage called jewelling. This can be done with anything upto another 3 products gradually getting finer and finer until you are using basically an oil glaze to really ping the flake ( so it looks like diamonds in the paint hence the name jewelling ).
> Give it a shot you will be amazed at the extra depth and bling you can add in the mix


Is there a link to this and what products would you use please?


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## Robbiewebs (Jun 24, 2013)

I'm sure u could use a paint cleaner or glaze with slight abrasive ability after the 205 would get u the final results u need bud 👍


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## Dorsetred159 (Jul 10, 2014)

Update: having moved away from Farecla G3 products having had a bad experience with the G3 scratch remover hazing, I have now just won a complete box of their G3 Pro range....! Is their paste wax any good?


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

Dorsetred159 said:


> Update: having moved away from Farecla G3 products having had a bad experience with the G3 scratch remover hazing, I have now just won a complete box of their G3 Pro range....! Is their paste wax any good?


http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=258348


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