# So you want to buy an expensive wax.



## MikeWood (Jun 9, 2009)

I would guess that there are a lot of people like me who have hankered after a prestige wax for a while. At the moment I have, smartwax, onyx, supernatural, vics concourse and the obligitory collinite. A fair selection but I always wanted swissvax best of show, even put a thread on here asking if it was worth it.

Anyhow I spent a lot of time and effort learning how to prep and machine polish and in the end (after 2 years) I went out on Saturday and bought BOS, was it worth it? Well I have put on a couple of photos below, sorry both are red but one is a well prepped boxster and the other is a daily run about 1988 ford escort.

My conclusion, better than onyx but not 3 times better, easier to use than supernatural with better clarity, better than collinite but not 10 times better, easier to use than Vic's but the end result is startlingly similar on the boxster however vic's doesn't like the ford. Would I buy it again, No. Vics leaves just as impressive finish and I would keep the colly for the escort. Anyhow photos below. I would be interested on your thoughts and if you agree or not.


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## Mark_H (Oct 31, 2007)

I can't see the pics...Looking forward to them...I can now.......Looks good.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Without looking at the pics i agree and disagree in equal measures. The difference between waxes is tenuous, for me its about the style of wax and glaze/cleanser. However i dont base a waxes worth on that anymore, for that exact reason. I enjoy looking after my cars and given that the difference in looks can be nominal i go for waxes that are fun to use and dramatic. For me swissvax is like a ferrari, and zymol a lambo. Swissvax are super easy to use in everyway, meaning that anyone could get the same results. Zymol are a little more involved and can bite you in the ass if you step out of line and therefore its fun to use them and finish the car.

So is bos worth the extra? Depends what you are after, concours is worth the extra for me, but i know plenty who will stick with colly or fk.


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Prep prep and prep.

My personal experience is that no matter how good a wax is supposed to be, if the car is perfectly prepped then there is not much difference.

The reason i buy the more exclusive wax is to say that i have it and it's a bit of a nice thing to treat myself to.

Like many have said - A Rolex does the same as a £20 Casio but i would still like to own a Rolex :thumb:


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## alexf (May 23, 2009)

Where's the pics of the Escort?! Get em up quick


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

you missed one other thing does not sheet water as quick as 476 or the vics but its still nice to get something you have wanted for ages :thumb:


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## MikeWood (Jun 9, 2009)

I see its going the way I anticipated, it's all in the prep and the wax makes very little difference. For those who are interested the prep for the boxster was, foam, 2bm wash, clay, foam, rinse, dry, lime prime with machine, swissvax cleaner and last wax. The escort was just foam, rinse, wash, clay, lime prime, wax. The main difference is that both are original paint and the escort isn't as deeply polished so lots of scratches, original paint so wanted to keep as much as I could.

I agree with the nice to have nice things as a treat but in truth the only wax that has stunned me was Vic's, partly because of the ability to deepen the colour and partly because of how temprimental it is to use! 

It does beg the question how much would you pay for a wax just to feal good? after all BOS is the price of one tryre on the boxster and all 4 on the escort.

I'm still not convinced but will be doing a silver Audi next week so will see if that swings it or not, I've still not cracked that one properly yet so fingers crossed for the BOS.


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## MikeWood (Jun 9, 2009)

The escort pics are on, the last two are bonnet and roof shots.


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

you should just try one more wax glasur just to compare with your others and look at the sheeting maybe do a 50/50 with the bos i know more money lol


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## Adnoh (May 26, 2008)

TBH I cant tell whats what when the preps good :thumb:


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

Adnoh said:


> TBH I cant tell whats what when the preps good :thumb:


Agree 100%. And i bet it's the same for most people. The problem i have is that i use 476, which looks good, i find it easy to use and it last for ages. It's the casio wax! So if someone comments on how good my car looks for it's age, i just say "thanks, i do my best". If i was to tell them i'd used a 100 pound+ rolex wax, i would expect a funny look my way. I've seen cars wearing a wide veriety of waxes from a tenner a pot to silly money for a fancy pot, i couldn't tell the difference at all.


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## MikeWood (Jun 9, 2009)

I hope the new guys are reading this and putting the hard earned in the right place, I note we havn't got designer clays and glazes/cleaners yet, wonder how long that will take?


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## feslope (Aug 16, 2009)

MikeWood said:


> I note we havn't got designer clays and glazes/cleaners yet, wonder how long that will take?


Pay Zymol a visit!!


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## MikeWood (Jun 9, 2009)

pete5570 said:


> Agree 100%. And i bet it's the same for most people. The problem i have is that i use 476, which looks good, i find it easy to use and it last for ages. It's the casio wax! So if someone comments on how good my car looks for it's age, i just say "thanks, i do my best". If i was to tell them i'd used a 100 pound+ rolex wax, i would expect a funny look my way. I've seen cars wearing a wide veriety of waxes from a tenner a pot to silly money for a fancy pot, i couldn't tell the difference at all.


I so agree with this the escort gets comments wearing colly and if friends ask for a wax recomendation colly is my reply but for some reason I only use it in the winter?


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## MikeWood (Jun 9, 2009)

Thinking about it the colly and onyx probably looks better on the escort th
an the. BOS


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## MikeWood (Jun 9, 2009)

feslope said:


> Pay Zymol a visit!!


Good point well made.


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## VZSS250 (Jan 8, 2008)

I'm completely over trying different waxes that all look the same.

Manufacturers are doing a very poor job of proving their claims about shine, depth, etc, and no wonder - if they tried to prove anything they would not be able to sell their snake oil waxes anymore (so far as looks go).

Only Meguiars posts 50/50 shots, and even in that case, the Meguiars look can sometimes look splotchy because of the darkening effect that some of their waxes create.

Its about time people were more honest with themselves and this community about the true difference in looks between waxes, especially those who have tried them all. 

Its always a tragedy seeing a noob got hrough the whole routine of spending big bucks looking for that impossibly wet look.


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## feslope (Aug 16, 2009)

stangalang said:


> Zymol are a little more involved and can bite you in the ass if you step out of line and therefore its fun to use them and finish the car.


LOL Sounds like you have applied Vintage or Royale too thick or let HD Cleanse dry onto the finish.:wall:


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

IMO more expensive waxes offer a different look (depending on the colour of the car). for example, lusso oro offers nicer results than collinite 915, but celeste dettaglio is a step up from lusso oro - as said, IMO. also, with more expensive waxes it's the feel of the product that makes it special - if it comes in a wooden pot, glass pot, it's own posh bag etc - that's the main reason for having a more expensive wax IMO.


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

If people can afford these luxury waxes, that's fine and i suppose it helps when a professional detailer is doing some high fliers ferrari etc, or even if someone want a bit of luxury for themselves. I see some of the post in the showroom section and they blow me away, using a wide veriety of products. It's good to see some detailer using products like 915 on an Aston Martin, at the same time it's interesting to see supernatural used on a ford fiesta. I personally can't see the difference in the finish, even side by side in the flesh,but it's down to personal choice in the end.


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

-Kev- said:


> IMO more expensive waxes offer a different look (depending on the colour of the car). for example, lusso oro offers nicer results than collinite 915, but celeste dettaglio is a step up from lusso oro - as said, IMO. also, with more expensive waxes it's the feel of the product that makes it special - if it comes in a wooden pot, glass pot, it's own posh bag etc - that's the main reason for having a more expensive wax IMO.


I've tried to post that comment before Kev, who really cares what it costs!

If the person is looking for a nice wax to complement his prep work then he no doubt wants a nice "classy" wax that as Kev mentioned, feels special to use.

For these reasons i'm looking to buy Glasur, do I care that 476 lasts twice as long, not really. My car will still be wearing Glasur.
Just the same as i'll wear an All Saints jacket but the £10 Asda one would keep me just as dry.


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## Ti22 (Mar 24, 2009)

The only thing I'l add as a point to this is that you should find the longevity with BOS beats the others hands down.

As stated, you'll be very hard pushed to see a difference.


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## 123quackers (Jan 29, 2009)

stangalang said:


> Without looking at the pics i agree and disagree in equal measures. The difference between waxes is tenuous, for me its about the style of wax and glaze/cleanser. However i dont base a waxes worth on that anymore, for that exact reason. I enjoy looking after my cars and given that the difference in looks can be nominal i go for waxes that are fun to use and dramatic. For me swissvax is like a ferrari, and zymol a lambo. Swissvax are super easy to use in everyway, meaning that anyone could get the same results. Zymol are a little more involved and can bite you in the ass if you step out of line and therefore its fun to use them and finish the car.
> 
> So is bos worth the extra? Depends what you are after, concours is worth the extra for me, but i know plenty who will stick with colly or fk.


Me likes the Ferrari Lambo way you put it... Me I'm a Lambo man through and through myself But sadly over time Lambo has become similar to Ferrari... Need to find an new version mmmmm Pagani!!! now which wax would that be ??? :thumb:

I need a new one!!


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

That'sit! Get into the luxury wax market, Get some fancy pots made up, it amazing what those chinese factories can knock up for 30p a piece, get a company to make up a wax for you to brand (we'll go for a quite high carnuba content) and give it a nice smell etc. All you need to do now is think up a really alluring name. get a few test going against some classy brands (it will look similar anyway), we'll price it at 199 quid, let'snot be greedy hey! I reckon about 185 quid profit per pot, after the cost of materials and hype.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

123quackers said:


> Me likes the Ferrari Lambo way you put it... Me I'm a Lambo man through and through myself But sadly over time Lambo has become similar to Ferrari... Need to find an new version mmmmm Pagani!!! now which wax would that be ??? :thumb:
> 
> I need a new one!!


Hmmm. A zonda does have the pantomime, and those matching driving shoes to the interior. Perhaps it doesn't exist yet, a window of opportunity maybe?


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## 123quackers (Jan 29, 2009)

stangalang said:


> Hmmm. A zonda does have the pantomime, and those matching driving shoes to the interior. Perhaps it doesn't exist yet, a window of opportunity maybe?


I remember driving the first 6lt zonda 5speed from Allan autos in Belgium back in 2000 when the fuel crisis was on he came over with the 5pseed and Loris Biococchi who was the then test development driver came up with the 6speed box. God that car was amazing fast was an understatement back then and it handled like a go kart.. Amazing day..It turned out he was a good freind of my mate at the Lambo factory they developed the EB110 SS together with another old friend plus Horacio himself was a Lambo man who started as a boy and redesigned the QV to the Anniversary.

As for Loris well he has developed

Test driver/development driver for countach, Buggatti EB110, Zonda, Veyron, CCX koenigsegg and KTM crossbow.only small indie he hasnt to my knowledge done was the JB engineering Edonis.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

123quackers said:


> I remember driving the first 6lt zonda 5speed from Allan autos in Belgium back in 2000 when the fuel crisis was on he came over with the 5pseed and Loris Biococchi who was the then test development driver came up with the 6speed box. God that car was amazing fast was an understatement back then and it handled like a go kart.. Amazing day..It turned out he was a good freind of my mate at the Lambo factory they developed the EB110 SS together with another old friend plus Horacio himself was a Lambo man who started as a boy and redesigned the QV to the Anniversary.
> 
> As for Loris well he has developed
> 
> Test driver/development driver for countach, Buggatti EB110, Zonda, Veyron, CCX koenigsegg and KTM crossbow.only small indie he hasnt to my knowledge done was the JB engineering Edonis.


Lucky [email protected]!


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## 123quackers (Jan 29, 2009)

stangalang said:


> Lucky [email protected]!


If I can find the video footage some where.... My freind Gianni was test driver at Edonis.. I was a Lucky [email protected] that day...

I went up and down the air field at woodbridge a couple of times when they came over to do evo mag against the F1 gtr road car of Nick Mason's.. back in 2002

The noise a set of dump valves makes on 3.7ltr V12 with 2 big turbos kicking 700BHP is unreal:argie::thumb:

I will see what if its on an old sony tape some where..


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## Spuj (Apr 19, 2010)

This went from a Thread about wax to awesome in 2 posts :thumb:


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

pete5570 said:


> That'sit! Get into the luxury wax market, Get some fancy pots made up, it amazing what those chinese factories can knock up for 30p a piece, get a company to make up a wax for you to brand (we'll go for a quite high carnuba content) and give it a nice smell etc. All you need to do now is think up a really alluring name. get a few test going against some classy brands (it will look similar anyway), we'll price it at 199 quid, let'snot be greedy hey! I reckon about 185 quid profit per pot, after the cost of materials and hype.


You shouldn't mock, that would actually work. I tend to view really expensive waxes in the same vein as really expensive moisturisers, the manufacturer makes all sorts of psuedo science claims for why the ingredients make the product better but at the end of the day most of it is placebo. I think you hit the nail on the head, people often claim that expensive waxes is all about the feeling you get in other words the smell, the application, the packaging, the label.....


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## 123quackers (Jan 29, 2009)

stangalang said:


> Lucky [email protected]!







Here is a clip to give you Idea... :argie::argie: TURN VOLUME UP!!!!

This is shot on the streets of Campogaliano where the factory was, which happens to be in one of the old Buggatti buildings from EB110 days..


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## 123quackers (Jan 29, 2009)

gt5500 said:


> You shouldn't mock, that would actually work. I tend to view really expensive waxes in the same vein as really expensive moisturisers, the manufacturer makes all sorts of psuedo science claims for why the ingredients make the product better but at the end of the day most of it is placebo. I think you hit the nail on the head, people often claim that expensive waxes is all about the feeling you get in other words the smell, the application, the packaging, the label.....


+1 marketing guys don't you just love em!!


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## Spuj (Apr 19, 2010)

Some people like to spend there hard earned on drugs and drink, some like to spend it on nice clothes and some like to spend it on nice wax to make their car look good and protected. 

Maybe these waxes do add something more than others, maybe they don't. I believe it is all down to each individual as to what they want out of a wax wether that be durability/easy of application/smell/feel good factor/look and if they believe that buying a £100 plus 'superwax' is the right thing to do then that is what they will do.

I know for newer people who aren't sure about spending their hard earned on an expensive wax, this doesnt help. My advice to anyone would be to take a look at the showroom/studio sections and see what results people get with the waxes they are thinking of buying.

As said some people (myself included) like to spend a bit more on expensive waxes, Companies recognise this so naturally that part of the market will be filled.

My 2p anyway :thumb:


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## 123quackers (Jan 29, 2009)

Spuj said:


> Some people like to spend there hard earned on drugs and drink, some like to spend it on nice clothes and some like to spend it on nice wax to make their car look good and protected.
> 
> Maybe these waxes do add something more than others, maybe they don't. I believe it is all down to each individual as to what they want out of a wax wether that be durability/easy of application/smell/feel good factor/look and if they believe that buying a £100 plus 'superwax' is the right thing to do then that is what they will do.
> 
> ...


Remember prep prep prep is the key, the wax adds very little :thumb:

As for feel good factor and marketing plus all the other little things that make you want to buy it......... Individaul choices and tastes and of cause budgets play a vital role...:thumb:


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

I don't think I care if Glasur will or will not add to the look of my car I just can't wait to try it.

I'm past caring whether a £11 wax will look better and last longer than £100 wax.


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

Always I remember gally when he said :



gally said:


> So imo find a wax that doesn't cost the earth, *won't effect the clarity* of thent finish but still give you the best durability.


:thumb:

IMHO best high end waxes comes on this price-rang £50-100 Such as Zymol Glasur , Dodo SN , RG55 , Victoria Concours , Blackfire Midnight Sun , Smartwax Concours , no point to go over £100 and as you know there is a lot of LSP under £50 adds nice finish also .


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

I think that was a challenge Maxi was it not?

I said see if you can find a wax with all of the above and i'll buy it. 

Imo there isn't one. 

They all excell in different ways. 

I could say Glasur sheets better than 476 but 476 lasts longer and the debate rages on.


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Agree with Maxi, I find the £50-£100'ers offer something over the £20'ers but once you go over £100, the gains are MINIMAL at best.

Take Glasur and Destiny/Vintage for example. They are near enough identical, and from the testing I've been doing durability is near enough the same too.

You can liken it to hi-fi/home cinema equipment in a way, and things like speaker cable and interconnects. The basic stuff works, does the job. Spend a bit more and the gains are quite evident. Then, you have to spend a LOT more for TINY improvements, and I think that's similar to spending over £100 on a wax.

Some people will always want 'the best' and something 'exclusive', so there will always be a market. From a rational perspective, value goes right out of the window, but desirability will always remain.

For me, now I'll probably never go over Glasur/Mirage/Celeste. I liked BOS, but it's not £145 nice, and the durability isn't the best for the money. Mirage is the sweet spot on the SW range IMO, but I'd opt for Glasur over that.


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Great post Russ.


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

RussZS said:


> You can liken it to hi-fi/home cinema equipment in a way, and things like speaker cable and interconnects. The basic stuff works, does the job. Spend a bit more and the gains are quite evident.


Off topic now but no the gains are not evident, infact there is a complete lack of evidence that hi end interconnects, speaker cable etc does anything but add a placebo effect. I used to really be into HiFi but I was also very interested in sound engineering and recording and spent a year studying it many moons ago. I soon came to realise that a speaker cable is a speaker cable as long as it doesn't go rusty and has negligible resistence it will work as well as it can, it cannot under any circumstances add colour or depth or clarity, or whatever other nonsense is pushed around. You have to ask yourself if the studios are not interested in ludicrously expensive cables whilst recording the music then you are not going to gain anything when you reproduce it at home. Like I said way off topic now but you are right it is just like the wax market, people buy into these 'uber' products and then convince themselves and everyone else that it was all worth it. At least with a wax there is more to in then just transmitting an electrical signal so there is a chance there could be something 'in it'.


Spuj said:


> My advice to anyone would be to take a look at the showroom/studio sections and see what results people get with the waxes they are thinking of buying.
> :


Surely that's where a lot of the problems arise though, newbie see's a showroom thread and thinks 'wow that £400 wax is amazing' the problem is though that pictures really mean jack all, I could post a pic up of a car without any LSP and say it had Solaris on it and I am sure most people would think it looked great.


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Disagree completely, it depends on the equipment and the source material, but £10k's worth of equipment you can definitely hear the difference between something 30p p/m and something £10 p/m.

But anyway, that's another debate!


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## 123quackers (Jan 29, 2009)

RussZS said:


> Disagree completely, it depends on the equipment and the source material, but £10k's worth of equipment you can definitely hear the difference between something 30p p/m and something £10 p/m.
> 
> But anyway, that's another debate!


My 2p

I would to a point on a scale on cost a £100 hi-fi to £1000 pounds you could hear a differance but it depends on the individuals hearing and interpretaion of clarity in the sound feilds of Hz's. some like base some like treble it is personal choice. There comesa point the human ear can not distinguish above a certain zone.

Like I would say it would be similar in the look or finish in the wax as its the individauls eye and its abillity to ready refelctive light or colour depth that will see the differance and what is or isn't wet/ glassy/ deep etc etc....

This is a bedate that will never be solved as everyone has views and opinions which is great as the world would be boring and we would all use the same produts to wash, polish, wax.... Then there would be no choice and thats the point choice and personal taste in looks, feel good, cost ,prestige, exclusivity etc etc....

personally I will continue trying different products as fining the one and only product that can not be beat will never happen...


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

gally said:


> .
> 
> I could say Glasur sheets better than 476 but 476 lasts longer and the debate rages on.


In hot weather here 476s and 915 better than Glasur i agree with you .
however the durability is not important to me . only i need good wax super easy to use applying wax entire car and wipe off easily , adds nice clarity and gloss after prep stages and last for 1-2 months .


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

123quackers said:


> personally I will continue trying different products as fining the one and only product that can not be beat will never happen...


That's my enjoyment of trying different products, I already know what are the best for me to use, doesn't stop me trying different products though!


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

MAXI-MILAN said:


> In hot weather here 476s and 915 better than Glasur i agree with you .
> however the durability is not important to me . only i need good wax super easy to use applying wax entire car and wipe off easily , adds nice clarity and gloss after prep stages and last for 1-2 months .


Very good point in regards to where you stay, Milan.

Something that won't bake on and doesn't have to survive harsh weather.


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

RussZS said:


> Disagree completely, it depends on the equipment and the source material, but £10k's worth of equipment you can definitely hear the difference between something 30p p/m and something £10 p/m.
> 
> But anyway, that's another debate!


Whilst I agree that higher end equipment makes a difference there is no physical way that a cable can make a difference, so long as the cable is transmitting the signal without too much resistance the sound will be the same. All this talk of high end cables giving warmth or colour is just placebo driven by all the brainwashing the marketing companies do. You are entitled to your own opinions of course, I am sticking by mine since the science agrees with it and disagrees with the marketing. Yes that is another debate like you say :thumb:


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

gally said:


> Very good point in regards to where you stay, Milan.
> 
> Something that won't bake on and doesn't have to survive harsh weather.


I live in the Aisa > Middle East > Qatar near Dubai 
.....the temperature now is 53 and Humidity is 77% more than russia.. know I can see the "Humidity-beading":lol:


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

It's all about branding. If collinite were to produce a wax and price it at 75 quid a pop, most people would wonder why they sell very good waxes at 15 quid and all of a sudden they want 75,no chance, they wouldn't buy it. When Autoglym brought out their HD wax, people were saying it was a bit expensive, because AG stuff is well priced. A brand can appear from nowhere and start selling high end goods (just look at the clothing industry), but when a company selling top products at decent prices try it, they struggle to convince buyers. Example: Fruit of the loom polo t-shirt a tenner, stick a crocodile on it and the price goes up to 60 quid, both wear well and both last, but the brand gets the premium!


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## gordonpuk (Mar 14, 2010)

gt5500 said:


> Whilst I agree that higher end equipment makes a difference there is no physical way that a cable can make a difference, so long as the cable is transmitting the signal without too much resistance the sound will be the same. All this talk of high end cables giving warmth or colour is just placebo driven by all the brainwashing the marketing companies do. You are entitled to your own opinions of course, I am sticking by mine since the science agrees with it and disagrees with the marketing. Yes that is another debate like you say :thumb:


Haha!
I used to be in to Hi-Fi many moons ago, I was also a repair tech, things I used to read really made me go Hmmmmmmmmm.
Like people who would swear that the speaker cable shouldn't touch the floor, manufactures actually make little 'pylons' to lift the cable off the floor and people would rave over the difference it made.
Don't get me started on people who had a seperate power point installed from their consumer unit or wired out the power on/off switch in their amps (they would tell you the switch causes distortion) or one of the weirdest, earth bonding all the furniture in the room!
G.


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

gordonpuk said:


> Haha!
> I used to be in to Hi-Fi many moons ago, I was also a repair tech, things I used to read really made me go Hmmmmmmmmm.
> Like people who would swear that the speaker cable shouldn't touch the floor, manufactures actually make little 'pylons' to lift the cable off the floor and people would rave over the difference it made.
> Don't get me started on people who had a seperate power point installed from their consumer unit or wired out the power on/off switch in their amps (they would tell you the switch causes distortion) or one of the weirdest, earth bonding all the furniture in the room!
> G.


HA! Love these people.


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

gordonpuk said:


> Haha!
> I used to be in to Hi-Fi many moons ago, I was also a repair tech, things I used to read really made me go Hmmmmmmmmm.
> Like people who would swear that the speaker cable shouldn't touch the floor, manufactures actually make little 'pylons' to lift the cable off the floor and people would rave over the difference it made.
> Don't get me started on people who had a seperate power point installed from their consumer unit or wired out the power on/off switch in their amps (they would tell you the switch causes distortion) or one of the weirdest, earth bonding all the furniture in the room!
> G.


Yep I know what you mean, all these things are ridiculous, I once bought a s/h subwoofer and it came with a really expensive power cable, ffs how can the power cable affect the sound? Trouble is these people will not learn, they want to believe and they want you to believe. When you tell them something is not scientifically possible they suggest science is silly and the only real way to know is to test it for yourself, why? if it is not scientifically possible what possible outcome will you have? the only possible outcome is placebo. I read earlier that a popular hifi review site even went so far as to suggest that double blinded trials are flawed because the nature of the trial removes peoples ability to tell the difference when they got annoyed that a blind trial showed that people could not tell the difference between amp A and amp B, idiots.


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## MikeWood (Jun 9, 2009)

*ok I may have been wrong*

Right humble pie time. When I started this thread it was so that other 
s wouldnt waste money on expensive wax. But..... I have had the work car out all week and whilst the beading is a little bizzare the car still looks clean despite a weeks driving in what has been poor weather. Also I have just taken out the fun car and it looks better now than last week when I first did it, somehow it looks richer and. like a new car not the 12 yr old that is is. I have then driven it accross the country, east to west in down pours and spray and although you cant see out the windows for dirt the car still looks bright with lots of colour and reflection, amazing.

So now I am thinking does it give a better finish than vics concours my previous favourate, yes. Is is better to apply, very yes, does he car appear to stay cleaner for longer, yes. Is is worth double the cost of vics, no. Am I now happy I bought it instead of fealing like a mug, yes and that wasn't the case last week.


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

MikeWood said:


> Right humble pie time. When I started this thread it was so that other
> s wouldnt waste money on expensive wax. But..... I have had the work car out all week and whilst the beading is a little bizzare the car still looks clean despite a weeks driving in what has been poor weather. Also I have just taken out the fun car and it looks better now than last week when I first did it, somehow it looks richer and. like a new car not the 12 yr old that is is. I have then driven it accross the country, east to west in down pours and spray and although you cant see out the windows for dirt the car still looks bright with lots of colour and reflection, amazing.
> 
> So now I am thinking does it give a better finish than vics concours my previous favourate, yes. Is is better to apply, very yes, does he car appear to stay cleaner for longer, yes. Is is worth double the cost of vics, no. Am I now happy I bought it instead of fealing like a mug, yes and that wasn't the case last week.


Yeah but to be honest last week I gave my car a quick hit with SRP,it's been on the car before and never really did much for me but honestly the car looks great and still looks clean, just as you have described, I am guessing the weather is involved. The point I am making here is that sometimes we hear of people applying some wonder wax and the car looking better then ever but how much of that is just us forgetting how could it looked before?. Sometimes I wash my car and it looks better then the last time when I washed it, a lot is due to lighting conditions I think. Going back to the Hifi debate, well there's an obvious crossover, people are always claiming that swapping this that and the other made a 'world' of difference and yet when the switch is made instantaneously in a blinded trial they can't tell the difference. Let me pose a question, has anyone ever applied a cheap wax and then immediately removed it and applied an expensive one? I doubt it. Most times when someone uses a cheap wax and then steps up to an expensive one there is a time gap between them so they can't fully remember what it looked like before and chances are the lighting will be different as well. All I know is like the Hifi debate those that believe it makes a difference hear a difference and those that don't don't and neither side will be swayed by the other so let's all just get along :thumb::thumb:


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

If you prepare a car properly, you will get a great finish from any decent wax. The people who use these boutique waxes seem to like the way they feel, or the smell etc. The name does wonders also. If that make people feel better then fair enough, but these high end waxes are no better than say FK1000 or Collinite. Most people would e hard pressed to tell the difference.


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## tuggers (Mar 18, 2009)

ok, we all know preperation is so very important. This will affect the finished outcome without a shadow of a doubt!! 
Do we see a major difference in low and high end wax??
Probably not enough for the human eye to detect, and probably not enough to justify the price difference , but me included like everyone like to have a expensive high end wax, 
1., to say we have it
2., because you do get a placebo effect from it, it feels nice to use, it smells nice , and it makes my car look better. 

Is there anything wrong with this??

He'll no!!


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

tuggers said:


> ok, we all know preperation is so very important. This will affect the finished outcome without a shadow of a doubt!!
> Do we see a major difference in low and high end wax??
> Probably not enough for the human eye to detect, and probably not enough to justify the price difference , but me included like everyone like to have a expensive high end wax,
> 1., to say we have it
> ...


Exactly, I still have many waxes (some boutique) to try and I know they won't make a masive difference, but I want to smell new smells and feel how easy some of the better waxes go onto the car.

With car wax it's not cost = performance, so just because one wax costs twice as much as another it doesn't mean you should expect it to be twice as good, the same way a £1k watch wont tell the time any better than a. £8 casio but it doesn't stop people buying nice ones.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

last two posts are spot on IMO. some comments by people in this thread about there being no difference at all are probably going by pictures they've seen on here and not used a more expensive wax themselves...
at the end of the day I'll spend my hard earned on what I want to spend it on - I could of got a base model fiesta that would of got me to and from work nicely but I decided to spend more and get am ST instead, some will probably see this is a waste of money but tbh I couldn't care less


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I think I am going to stick with Zaino Z5:thumb:Fantastic looks,great durability,easy of use,no gassing issues ect.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

-Kev- said:


> last two posts are spot on IMO. some comments by people in this thread about there being no difference at all are probably going by pictures they've seen on here and not used a more expensive wax themselves...
> at the end of the day I'll spend my hard earned on what I want to spend it on - I could of got a* base model fiesta that would of got me to and from work nicely but I decided to spend more and get am ST instead*, some will probably see this is a waste of money but tbh I couldn't care less


How dare you climb out of the crab bucket 
But seriously, we know whay you mean, these type of threads always seem to be from folk trying to justify why they got their 'budget' wax 
About time they got a cheaper wax than the one they have and compare it also, they may be in for the same shock


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## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

-Kev- said:


> last two posts are spot on IMO. some comments by people in this thread about there being no difference at all are probably going by pictures they've seen on here and not used a more expensive wax themselves...
> at the end of the day I'll spend my hard earned on what I want to spend it on - I could of got a base model fiesta that would of got me to and from work nicely but I decided to spend more and get am ST instead, some will probably see this is a waste of money but tbh I couldn't care less


Well said Kev. Due to all sorts of other issues, yesterday I was having a discussion with my dad about my car (which is currently awaiting a new ECU...) and the modifications I have done, wheels, suspension, styling etc. He was going on about how a standard, cheap, basic car would get me from A to B just as well. True, I conceded, but what if this is a hobby of mine and I get enjoyment out of it? The whole process, from researching a mod or part, sourcing it, ordering it new or collecting it from some randomer in a different part of the country, to looking at it on the shelf and then getting a chance to fit it.

It's exactly the same, for me at least, with detailing products, especially wax. Researching on here, going to the sales or swaps section or buying from CYC or whoever, to receiving it, opening it, smelling it (has to be done), using it, seeing the shiny aftermath and even seeing the beading and sheeting after a rain shower. If I like it, it stays. If not, or if I fancy a change, it's back to the sales or swaps section.

I realise the above probably makes me a complete sad-act in the eyes of many, but I enjoy it, so I don't need to justify it, just as you shouldn't need to justify why you buy or want a boutique wax. You want something, you pays your money, you enjoy it and damn the guilt 

And similarly, if your means only allow a tub of Collinite or Natty's, that's fine too! :thumb: Too much 'wax-hate' on here at times.


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## buff not enuf (Sep 29, 2008)

Waxcism or Waxist.:lol:


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

pete5570 said:


> If you prepare a car properly, you will get a great finish from any decent wax. The people who use these boutique waxes seem to like the way they feel, or the smell etc. The name does wonders also. If that make people feel better then fair enough, but these high end waxes are no better than say FK1000 or Collinite. Most people would e hard pressed to tell the difference.


I still dont understand why people who argue against nice waxes SOLEY base it on finish? There is so much more to it? I simply couldn't put fk1000 in the same division as say glasur, but not because of price. I could easily tell the difference between the 2 mentioned, on my car, because i judge them on the befores, DURINGS and afters:thumb:


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

stangalang said:


> I still dont understand why people who argue against nice waxes SOLEY base it on finish? There is so much more to it? I simply couldn't put fk1000 in the same division as say glasur, but not because of price. I could easily tell the difference between the 2 mentioned, on my car, because i judge them on the befores, DURINGS* and afters*:thumb:


and afters is the thing, not necessarilly straight after, but several weeks and washes after, we see enough posts about fk1000 not being all that after all
'gotta enhance the look with some expensive spray...'


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## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

buff not enuf said:


> Waxcism or Waxist.:lol:


Sounds dodgy...


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

We've been around this loop so many times in the past, preparation is everything...if the groundwork's great you'll get a great finish more often than not regardless of wax you're using. :thumb:

Longevity is a key differing factor for me in comparison to some of the lower end waxes & higher-end products like my Vintage & Royale.

Personally I no longer get the opportunity to spend hours or even days a year prep'ing the cars & I only machine polish rarely once it's really needed.

I tend to give the cars a good clean, nothing major, just make sure all the crap's off, maybe twice a year I'll cut back with Swissvax Paint Cleaner then finish with Royale or Vintage depending on how much effort I want to put in  (Vintage is by far the easiest in my mind)...

Other times, a good clean followed by a Vintage or Royale top-up...or just a plain old wash... 

Before I was using Vintage or Royale, I found I was waxing every other week on average, now it's once every three or four months...do I miss it? To a degree I guess, but if I'm honest I don't get enough time to mow my lawn let alone spend hours each fortnight waxing etc...lol

Even though I was lucky enough to have the cash available, it wasn't a decision taken lightly to buy a high end wax, I tried MANY others along the way & I still live with the boss moaning about how much I've spent - thanks DW! lol 

Was it worth it? To me, sure!

If I had the chance to buy Vintage & Royale again, would I? NOPE...I'd stop at Vintage, sure Royale's great, & putting in the effort rewards you with a SUPERB finish, but I don't have the time & for the extra price, to me there's little in it...Vintage on the other hand I'd buy again in a heartbeat!

Maybe once life slows down a little I'll get back into the Royale & discover why I bought it in the first place, until then Vintage for me  & it's worth EVERY penny!


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## domino (Apr 19, 2010)

i started out using Concorso and Mystery, and now get more enjoyment finding/testing waxes that look better, provide better durability and are cheaper

and in my experience that's pretty easy to do

read - SV and Zymol high priced waxes = w^nk factor over substance


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## trhland (Sep 22, 2007)

my souveran wax is just as nice as my swissvax best of show . the only difference is swissvax has better durability thats all. they both leave a great look.


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## domino (Apr 19, 2010)

trhland said:


> my souveran wax is just as nice as my swissvax best of show . the only difference is swissvax has better durability thats all. they both leave a great look.


you sure love your souveran dont ya 

i still havent tested my tub yet, i might apply it over BF MS and see if i gain anything

i am liking the fact i can tap the wax out in one piece and apply by DA


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

My Souveran pot Close to end ... I like Souveran adds warmest deepest shine on black but 
the durability very very short you need to reapply every 2-3 wash.


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## feslope (Aug 16, 2009)

nortonski said:


> Was it worth it? To me, sure!
> 
> If I had the chance to buy Vintage & Royale again, would I? NOPE...I'd stop at Vintage, sure Royale's great, & putting in the effort rewards you with a SUPERB finish, but I don't have the time & for the extra price, to me there's little in it...*Vintage on the other hand I'd buy again in a heartbeat!*
> 
> Maybe once life slows down a little I'll get back into the Royale & discover why I bought it in the first place, until then *Vintage for me * & it's worth EVERY penny!


+1 It can't be said any better!! :thumb:


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## josh_ (Dec 29, 2009)

Maybe its like the new buggati veyron u need 200 horsepower to get another 5 mile an hour. perhaps the same percentages apply to more boutique waxes ? ie you pay more for a little extra you may not even notice.


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## Black Magic Detail (Aug 17, 2010)

hi ,my first post ,just getting started with the whole detailing thing and only tryed a few products .my car is carbon black ,the first thing i used was meguires gold class wax and was very happy with it .then i found ultimate shine web site and he was only 5 miles away so i went for look.after talking to paul and seeing his work i now have a different view on how good paint can look,now gold class dont look that good!.i got a trial size of race glaze 55 and my car had a new depth of shine ,now i have a full bottle of gold class that i dont want to use becuse my view of good has moved .so now i needed to get so new wax after reading post like this i was thinking should i pay £65 for RG55 or £20 for harly wax ?well i went for the harly wax to give it a try for only £20 why not?. and its not as deep a shine as RG55 but still looks better than gold class.IMHO it depends on where youre view of good is ,i think the £50-£100 waxs have more to offer than £20-£50 waxs.my car will be going in to paul at ultimate shine for a full paint correction soon!!


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