# Ceramic coatings - my experience



## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

I thought I'd document my experiences with ceramic coatings. This isn't aimed at slagging off either the place which installed my coating or the product itself. I just wanted to tell people my story and what you can realistically expect.

I am 10 months or so into having a ceramic coating installed on my car. As I'd spent a huge (to me) amount of cash on a black B9 S4 I wanted a coating to make cleaning easier in an attempt to keep the car as free from swirls as possible. I enjoy cleaning my car but as a family man with two primary school children who need running around all over the place spare time to keep my pride and joy looking its best is hard to find. So the search was on to find a coating to offer some protection, make cleaning easier and to ideally make cleaning as touchless as possible. After reading countless reviews, watching youtube videos and talking to people I decided to go for a ceramic coating. After talking to the guy who was going to install it I was advised I needed a correction detail first and then the coating could go on which I was happy with as there were some bad swirls which needed removing.

My expectations after talking to the installer and reading the reviews and videos was that I would have a coating which would do the following:-

Protect the paint work
Provide protection from light swirls/scratches
Provide a surface which would not allow dirt to stick and settle
Provide a surface which would allow a virtually touchless wash with most debris coming off with a pressure washer.
Provide a surface which would not need drying if using Pure water.

In was very impressed when I collected the car it looked mint! I had also purchased a pure water filter system and new wash mitts and buckets with grit guards. When it rained the water beaded well as expected but after a few days driving in the rain the car was as dirty as normal. Now I'm not sure what I was expecting in honesty but after watching the videos on youtube and facebook of people throwing buckets of brown water/mud over the white car and it just running off I was expecting better! So the day came for its first wash. I started with snow foam and then a blast with the pressure washer after letting it dwell. I was expecting it to be 90% clean after this but it was nothing like. It needed a good pressure washing and proper washing with a wash mitt as normal so again not what I was expecting. Once the dirt was removed and I rinsed the car the beading from the ceramic coating was back. Despite using pure filtered water, I still had to use a drying towel as the coating was making the water 'sit' on the car in a strange manner. 

So to conclude so far, I didn't really feel the car was staying any cleaner and once dirty it took just as much time end effort to clean as before. In addition to this 4 month down the line I started to see swirls appearing so despite me using a pre wash, snow foam, clean wash mitt, grit guards, 2 buckets, pure water and drying towels I was still putting swirls into the car despite the offer of scratch protection from the ceramic coating.

Now we move onto things that I didn't think about. What happens if your ceramic coated car gets a scratch or needs body work? Well I gained a significant scratch to the passenger door. It looked like someone had scratched it as they had brushed past it. It looked terrible but I knew I could get it out. So I use some products and after some elbow grease the scratch is 99% gone but.... SO is all the ceramic coating in that area? Now again I'm sure all ceramic coatings are different and some are stronger than others but having watched videos of people having to sand off ceramic coatings I though mine would be stronger than this. I now have an area approx. 2 pieces of A4 paper on the door with zero coating which I now have to apply wax.

The other issue particularly with dark cars is the dreaded water spots. For some reason which I don't fully understand (can anyone explain) ceramic coatings are prone to waterspots. Despite having a pure water filter system for cleaning I have these on my car in their hundreds. I also get them from the rain, when my neighbour accidently splashes water on my car and if any of the water dries while I am cleaning my car. Unfortunately some months ago while cleaning my car, I became ill and passed out just after rinsing my car. My father in law went out to finish my car but the water had dried and left marks. This has gotten worse with all of the rain we have had recently to the point that when I was finishing drying my car it was literally covered with white water marks all over it especially the roof, bonnet and tops of the wings. I consulted with the guy who fitted the coating, read and asked questions and after trying lots of different products inc. specialist water mark removers, quick detailers inc Koch FSE and even clay bar nothing was shifting it. I even resorted to diluted bathroom cleaner for cleaning water marks off shower screens. Eventually after exhausting every possible avenue it became obvious that the water marks were baked into the ceramic coating or worse the lacquer so the only solution to restore my car to looking half decent was to polish it. So last weekend I took to my cars bonnet with my trusted Auto glym SRP and a applicator pad and started trying to remove the water spots by hand with as light a touch as I could. After two light passes by hand 80% of the marks were gone but I fear so is the ceramic coating. My parents arrived at our house and my dad said what are you doing why do you look so angry. I replied its because I'm having to polish these water marks and around £700 off my car!

At the moment I've restored the bonnet and front wings to a decent 99% finish after 3 passes and I quickly applied some beadmaker as a temp coating. I'm pretty sure I have removed most if not all of the ceramic coating but I just didn't know what else I could have done?

So for me my ceramic coating was not what I was expecting. I still had to clean the car with the same routine, what did save time and help was the pure water system. The coating didn't really stop the car from getting dirty and definitely did not provide any resistance from scratches. I may have been naïve in what I thought the coating would do but if you look at the adverts, comments on here, youtube videos my expectations were not formed without good reason. The products used were decent well known brands and I'm happy with the work the installer did. These are just my experiences so would I do it again?? No! I wouldn't hesitate to use the same guy to detail my car but next I'd just have a decent wax or if I had the money I'd have the self healing paint protection film fitted.

There may well be people with ceramic coating who are totally happy with them and have coatings that do reduce cleaning times, and protect from scratches etc but my experience with my coating is that it didn't do anything like I expected and the issues with the water spots is just horrendous.

If you are desperate to have a ceramic coating fitted, talk to installers and people who have had one applied to their car. If you can see if it repels dirt, and see how easy it is to clean so you know what you can fully expect that's a bonus. I wish I had done that as I could have saved myself a lot of money.


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## jcooper5083 (Jun 10, 2018)

Really interesting write up and sorry you had such a bad experience. I am not brought in to ceramics and love wax too much but really hard to ignore how bad an experience you have had.

Could there have been an issue the the product itself as you have said the detailer is reputable so wondering if the product was duff for some reason?


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## grunty-motor (Aug 11, 2016)

Interesting review. I have professionally applied GTechniq which 3years on is still faultless (only 6000m though) on one car. You canliterally clean it with just a jet wash.

I have done some DIY Ceramics (Gyeon and Gtechniq) on other "daily" cars and noticed to some extent some of the things you describe above.


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## GSD (Feb 6, 2011)

I’ve recently put a cheap ceramic coat on mine and am well happy with it.


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

jcooper5083 said:


> Really interesting write up and sorry you had such a bad experience. I am not brought in to ceramics and love wax too much but really hard to ignore how bad an experience you have had.
> 
> Could there have been an issue the the product itself as you have said the detailer is reputable so wondering if the product was duff for some reason?


I'm not sure mate its possible. I'm also realistic now and feel that suggestions of protection from scratches hard to believe.


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

grunty-motor said:


> Interesting review. I have professionally applied GTechniq which 3years on is still faultless (only 6000m though) on one car. You canliterally clean it with just a jet wash.
> 
> I have done some DIY Ceramics (Gyeon and Gtechniq) on other "daily" cars and noticed to some extent some of the things you describe above.


I guess it depends on the brand maybe that you use. Can you shed any light on the horrendous issues people document with Ceramic coatings compared to wax?


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

That's why I've stuck to wax at the moment. I like to "top up" my protection and apply a wax, but if I went for a ceramic coating I'd be worried about getting scratches because you then have to polish away the ceramic coating to get rid of them. At least with a wax it's much easier to strip back, polish, then re-apply.

Also, I don't like the idea of throwing away perfectly good cloths after applying a ceramic coating. It makes me feel like I'd have to rush a whole car out in double quick time to use as few cloths as possible, whereas with a wax I can apply a few panels one week and a few more the next and just wash the cloths in between, then top up the wax here and there where necessary.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Itstony (Jan 19, 2018)

It will be difficult to get complete objective views in reply. Without causing a row.
I have learned that its human nature to defend what they shelled out for, did, bought etc.etc. Nobody want's to tell the world I made a right ricket and my fault. I do understand that and you must stand back and be objective, it is healthy.

I followed the same thinking and steps with my last new car. Obscene dough, pride and joy and years of hard work, no gifts or inheritance. Decided to have a CC and part PPF. similar thoughts as you. give it the best protection ASAP.
I was happy, although it is disconcerting and a risk not being present how this CC was applied, what went on, where etc.
The car is a toy and only gets driven high days, holidays and mainly garaged, but have made several round trips to the UK.
Hated driving it in the UK to be honest, horrified at the grey, black crap from the roads and only slightly less when they were dry, which was not very often either. But it does clean off much easier than my daily car does without CC. 

It will scratch albeit lightly and on stock white under a SG DMatch very fine and various ones can be seen, but not to the naked eye, even in daylight. Only my honest opinion is, it's impossible to not get these fine scratches. Us car care guys probably create more than those people that never clean their car. 
It beads great.
We are lead to believe it's 18 months, some up to 5 yrs, but those higher ones are scary as they need sanding off. I know of one horror story which I will not retell, it was mind blowing what it took to try, and remove without success as it was still ongoing and getting nasty. It ended up in compensation being paid. That put me off the latter choice for my new car.
Water marks, I also know (my experience only) water spots will make their deposits on any surface and once dry worse. If eft too long they are as you found, a pain. Rain, condensation God knows where, left outside they get water spots.
To sum up the reply, I do not think there is no panacea for protection you hoped for ... yet. I didn't get that either.

I was and still enjoy waxing, not alone on that either. Therapeutic, do as many times as you want, remove as and when you want. It's also rewarding especially years before when I would do it by hand with Swissol M-cleaner and MF pad, then Wax with Swissol. Stand back and admire.
I do plan to polish out all the CC and return to waxing eventually, probably with machine, but wont rule out by hand. I may then go back to Waxing.

The only time I would apply CC is to an older car and a reverse in my initial thinking as you have suggested too. Wonder if we are alone on that?

On my toy with CC, after its wash routine I only use FSE to QD and it keeps fantastic with that extra sheen FSE gives.
On my daily Met Black and the Bakwells's Met Aqua Rav I keep clean weekly (min) and QD with FSE and never have any issues with water marks and I am completely sold on this product and finish... except last week. The Sun was up and the Black car was roasting, so neither had the QD...oops!
Last Sunday after cleaning (two weeks) the Aqua Rav looked OK, but the Met Black revealed all, as they do.
It was hard work to remove the deposits with FSE, but got them back to normal and the usual slick surface and sheen.
I will guess many have the same thoughts as you and I, it sounded better than it was advertised, but CC does have it's place.:thumb:


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

Thanks for the reply Itstony. I think we are on the same page. As I said in the write up I've no issue with ceramic coatings or the guy who installed it. For me it was that it didn't at all live up to expectation. Maybe it was the product (not a cheap DIY one), the way it was applied or maybe I was just unrealistic? As you said there is a place for ceramic coatings and maybe the top high end ceramics do exactly what I was expecting who knows. My aim was to write an honest review of my experience not just to slam ceramic coatings. As you said I spent hundreds and really wanted to be impressed but I wasn't and that's the honest truth. If I could go back in time I would have spent half that for a correction detail and finished with my own wax or as I said gone all out on a PPF.


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## dazzlers82 (May 8, 2007)

Good and interesting read, I have found similar results with my black car. I do feel it has slowed down the amount of swirls that are created on my car though as it was a nightmare before but now 18 months on it has some but nothing like it did originally. I have a new cr coming September and am toying if to apply wax or ceramic again, I will 100% coat my wheels though as ive nt had any issues and my wheels are still immaculate (apart from a little kerb mark I done ).


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

dazzlers82 said:


> Good and interesting read, I have found similar results with my black car. I do feel it has slowed down the amount of swirls that are created on my car though as it was a nightmare before but now 18 months on it has some but nothing like it did originally. I have a new cr coming September and am toying if to apply wax or ceramic again, I will 100% coat my wheels though as ive nt had any issues and my wheels are still immaculate (apart from a little kerb mark I done ).


Same here I was very happy with the relatively cheap ceramic coating I put on my wheels myself.


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## TonyHill (Jul 28, 2015)

As I've said before on posts about disappointing ceramic coating experiences, I would NOT touch them with a barge pole on a daily driver. If its a garage queen that only gets used at the weekend or on a dry day then yes, maybe so, but not for a vast majority of cars that spend most of there time exposed to the elements.


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

TonyHill said:


> As I've said before on posts about disappointing ceramic coating experiences, I would NOT touch them with a barge pole on a daily driver. If its a garage queen that only gets used at the weekend or on a dry day then yes, maybe so, but not for a vast majority of cars that spend most of there time exposed to the elements.


You live and learn mate. But isn't the huge selling point of these coatings that they offer the best protection for cars from the elements.


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## washingitagain (Sep 11, 2018)

I had similar experiences to you but just with normal synthetic waxes. e.g. I spend a long time applying one just before the winter and I drive the car for a week and the dirt still sticks to it. Maybe it lifts off a bit easier with a PW but it still sticks and I expected any sort of recently applied protection to repel dirt. The difference with CC is they last longer.


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## dazzlers82 (May 8, 2007)

washingitagain said:


> I had similar experiences to you but just with normal synthetic waxes. e.g. I spend a long time applying one just before the winter and I drive the car for a week and the dirt still sticks to it. Maybe it lifts off a bit easier with a PW but it still sticks and I expected any sort of recently applied protection to repel dirt. The difference with CC is they last longer.


This is definitely a plus side of the argument, not having to apply wax every 3-6 months and to be honest I have not polished my car in the 18 months the ceramic has been on and it does still look good for it.

But down one side I have a little overspray, not noticeable to most but I can feel it when washing and I feel it has lost a little shine down that side. But I don't want to remove due to have to re apply the ceramic again, although that's just me being lazy.:lol:


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## jcooper5083 (Jun 10, 2018)

MBRuss said:


> That's why I've stuck to wax at the moment. I like to "top up" my protection and apply a wax, but if I went for a ceramic coating I'd be worried about getting scratches because you then have to polish away the ceramic coating to get rid of them. At least with a wax it's much easier to strip back, polish, then re-apply.
> 
> Also, I don't like the idea of throwing away perfectly good cloths after applying a ceramic coating. It makes me feel like I'd have to rush a whole car out in double quick time to use as few cloths as possible, whereas with a wax I can apply a few panels one week and a few more the next and just wash the cloths in between, then top up the wax here and there where necessary.
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


Couldn't agree more with this. I also don't see how a chemical can stop you getting scratches. The films, yes but ceramic is not a film and can clearly be carved through.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

This is the sort of video that is makes people think ceramic is amazing


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Which is probably fine if you have a bucket of watery mud to throw on an otherwise perfectly clean car.

A good wax or spray sealant would probably do the same.

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## crash486 (Apr 6, 2015)

I've never believed the scratch prevention claims. I am more than happy with the products I've used. Wetcoat, Nanolex, and various spray sealants compared to the waxes I'd used.
I find them easier to apply and feel they contribute to less scratching as I touch the paint less often as opposed to my previous frequent waxing. Yes , I miss the therapy.
The slick feel when applied feels subjectly smoother to me.
Our dark blue vehicle gets water spots, maybe the white do as well but I can't spot any, so maybe it's a temperature thing. All daily drivers , none garaged.
I don't discard cloths. I throw them in a bucket of microfiber wash pre-prepared as I go. Wash them and use in engine bay, underbody etc.
I've seen one vehicle done with pomp that looked and felt amazing for a couple of weeks, then behaved as if untreated. No idea why.

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## MrPassat (Mar 30, 2018)

Good post Mitch, I’m sure many have great success with ceramic coatings but maybe this will make people think twice about having one.


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## Cuffy (Oct 7, 2015)

Thanks for sharing your experiences

I have a swirly, dull moonlight blue A5 sportback and I'm deciding between a coating or a wax after correction. Its a daily driver doing 16-17k a year on a combination of A and B roads so after reading your experiences i'll think i'll opt for a decent quality wax.


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## darrant1234 (Nov 20, 2014)

My dealings with ceramic have been great. I've applied Gyeon mohs and Gyeon mohs synchro now and while agreed they don't stop scratches they do repel dirt to the point where its easier to clean but it won't stop your car getting dirty. I've found it slows it down getting dirty but doesn't stop it. Cleaning a car with a coating still requires care and being careful but i do find it easier to do and with using my water filter i can leave it wet after and don't get water spots. any water coming straight from a hose will leave water spots though, rain water is much better.

I do agree on the scratches though, if you get any they need polishing which will remove the coating. I've picked up some slight ones on my wing which im waiting to polish till im ready to coat again. I had gyeon mohs on our evoque for 2 years which i removed to recoat and polish, still beaded well after 2 years.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

What's the deal with using rainwater then? Do people filter it somehow? Just seems like it'd be fairly dirty, especially as it's generally collected from guttering, which is usually pretty mucky inside.

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## Kristian87 (Jun 23, 2019)

TonyHill said:


> As I've said before on posts about disappointing ceramic coating experiences, I would NOT touch them with a barge pole on a daily driver. If its a garage queen that only gets used at the weekend or on a dry day then yes, maybe so, but not for a vast majority of cars that spend most of there time exposed to the elements.


Important point here IMO. Great review btw @tmitch45

I've always been put off by a CC because it feels a little to "permanent" and doesn't really suit the abuse that a daily receives. It will surely make life easier, but for a car that needs fairly regular maintenance washes, the benefits will be minimal in my mind. My other thought is that CC and sealants/waxes don't necessarily play well together, so if you go the CC route, you are "stuck" with it to a certain extent. Sealants & waxes offer more flexibility I think, which suits my washing routine.

If I had a garaged toy and could afford it, I think this is where CC comes in to its own. Washes would be infrequent and dealing with dirt on a minimal level, this is where the long term protection benefits will really pay off.

Not quite as black & white as that I know, but that's my 2 pence.

Of course a big factor is how the maintenance washes are done. We can all have a struggle occasionally, especially if we can't do a wash in ideal conditions.

Often tempted by a ceramic, but for now I'll be sticking my my sealant & wax combo


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## Commander2874 (Sep 7, 2017)

Good writeup and i totally get what you are saying. I had mine done 2 years ago following a full decon and 2 stage polish and i too expected miracles but found out very quickly that it's all about how often you keep your car clean. 

I have always washed mine every 2 weeks and used products like Carpro Reload, elixir, bathe + and my car remains in top condition. I only do 7k miles a year so the paintwork doesn't suffer much abuse. 

Would i get it coated again when it finally expires? No i prob won't and will go back to using a wax. This is by no means a criticism of ceramic coatings but seeing how regularly mine is maintained, a wax and regular qd's keeps the car clean and sufficiently protected. 

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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

MrPassat said:


> Good post Mitch, I'm sure many have great success with ceramic coatings but maybe this will make people think twice about having one.


my goal was not to slag off the coatings of the guy who did it. Its more that I'm urging people to fully understand what they are getting into and can expect.


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## andy__d (Jun 27, 2018)

isnt that the "bit" , managing what it Really does V the claims/hype/omg look things

Swirls Will happen, end of story
if something scratches the paintwork, that is what it does, wax or CC arent going to stop that happening
Dirt IS going to stick, it may/maynot be easier to remove depending on the wax OR the CC.

marketing V real world ,, Youtube V real world

sure hurling a bucket of dirty water at a perfectly clean car will show Most of it sheeting off with a wax Or a CC,, drive for a while in the rain/dirty road conditions,

i think there is a Place for both wax And CC , depending on what You want and realistically expect from them
otherwise PPF the car and replace the PPF when that takes the beating your paintwork would have


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## Roller (Nov 17, 2012)

I had a brand new M140i detailed and coated with G-Tecniq CS Black, applied by a professional detailer - he is not on here as far as I know, but is in St Helens. 

I have to be honest, it was absolutely amazing, 18 months down the line the beading was still as good as the day it was done, wheels jand callipers just jetted off and the rain would blow off the car at anything above 40. 

Yes, there are some negatives, for example repairs etc, but in that time the car did 10/11k and there was only one tiny stone chip on the passenger mirror. The only thing for me initially was the cost, but the car always looked concours ready.


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## beatty599 (Sep 18, 2016)

Kristian87 said:


> Important point here IMO. Great review btw @tmitch45
> 
> I've always been put off by a CC because it feels a little to "permanent" and doesn't really suit the abuse that a daily receives. It will surely make life easier, but for a car that needs fairly regular maintenance washes, the benefits will be minimal in my mind. My other thought is that CC and sealants/waxes don't necessarily play well together, so if you go the CC route, you are "stuck" with it to a certain extent. Sealants & waxes offer more flexibility I think, which suits my washing routine.
> 
> ...


:lol: I'm the complete opposite of you! I'd rather wax my garage queen and ceramic coat my daily.

In my mind there's no right or wrong way to CC, sealant or wax. There's a member on here that waxes his cc'd car, because he enjoys it!


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## Gas head (May 28, 2010)

Fortunately I've not experienced the water spotting mentioned, can't even remember having the issue with C1 on a metallic black 4x4 over 10 years ago, I am aware vinegar or acid based specific maintenance product can get water spots off, so can only assume maybe some formulations are more prone than others, or maybe you live in an area with different pollution/levels?

What I will say is that when I sold the vehicle and when I gave it the final clean/polish before p/ex I think I could tell it had it done when new the car came up like new, and I didn't worry too much if a bird had a poo on it until its clean at the w/end, was it easier to clean??? did it scratch less??? who knows, overall I would say it worked for me


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