# What standard do you accept ...



## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

.... from a paint job?

Because there are sprayshops and then there are sprayshops....

So lets say you go to a top rated sprayshop and spend say £8000 on complete respray, you'd expect it to be perfect - right!

Or you could go to somewhere and get a complete respray for £1000, but would you expect it to be perfect? And if it's not is the cheaper sprayshop fair game for you to complain, demand the job be done perfectly,refuse payment, take to the small claims court, etc,etc. 

Where is the line drawn on money spent versus accepting a lower standard?

Discuss .....


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

You should not agree standards say if You go to bodyshop and ask for price You expect job to be 100% no matter what You pay...


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Alzak said:


> You should not agree standards say if You go to bodyshop and ask for price You expect job to be 100% no matter what You pay...


This^^^

I ask for a price for a job to be completed. I've never once asked for a price for a sub standard job, so no matter what the quote, the work should be 100%


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

I would say if you were to have a car painted for anything less than £1500 you would have to expect lower standards, well not lower standards but a few bits you would have to accpet may need tidied up. However anything beyond that price bracket i would expect to be perfect and of factory standard. Im a painter to trade of course.

I prepped a car for a full respray and then paid my old bodyshop for thier booth time and i paid one of the guys £200 for his time to spray the car, i was £280 in paint so all in all i paid £660 for the paint job. This was on a car i bought for the GF to learn to drive in so i wasnt to concerned on the finish. It turned out very well although it does need machine polished as there are dirt nibs and it has sunk back a little bit but i expected to have to do this work.

I guess if you are providing someone with a service you have to be clear on the end product and what they should expect so that when the hand over happens there is no surprises for yourself or your client.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Depends what you want / ask for.

If you ask for a spray job that's what you'll get.

If you ask for a concourse job it will be considerably more with lots of sanding, flatting to ensure a mirror finish with no blemishes or orange peel.

Alzak/vroomtshh do you ask for a full panels off, full concourse job?


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

So saying that You mean cheaper job always mean worst quality ??


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Not always but if someone can do it cheap then they are 99% of the time cutting corners.

Good materials, tools and booths costs money. Therefore a £1000 respray would cover a decent garage's costs really.

It'll cover Joe Bloggs down the street in his ten/hut etc...

Hard to explain but a lot of the time, yes , really cheaper raises some questions.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

I would say is due to market why some places offer cheaper work no exactly due to quality

If i ask someone to do some work and to price work for me I never ask for quality as I always expect it to be near perfect... no matter what it is


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

Wetherspoons is cheaper than raymond blancs restaurant, but you wont get the same service/quality in each.


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## Ric (Feb 4, 2007)

Shug said:


> Wetherspoons is cheaper than raymond blancs restaurant, but you wont get the same service/quality in each.


but the product, a bottle of becks is exactly the same in either.


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

carbonangel said:


> but the product, a bottle of becks is exactly the same in either.


As is paint inside a tin I'd imagine.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

My local Seat garage is twice more expensive than garage which I use do You think Seat is better ??


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Bero said:


> Alzak/vroomtshh do you ask for a full panels off, full concourse job?


No, why would I? I go to a painter (because he's a painter and I'm not) I ask for work to be completed - Lets says its a full respray. Then I would ask him for a price for a full respray.

If he then explains to me that he'l need to take panels off and do this and that and thats the cost, then thats fine.

If he says to me that'll cost £1k, and I get it back not 100% then I would go back to him to have it sorted.

If he says to me, it'll cost £1k BUT I can't guarantee the work etc etc, then I would go elsewhere.

I didn;t realise that to get a job done 100%, you have to specifically request extra work be completed.

If I go to Mcdonalds and ask for a cheese burger, I don't tell them how to cook it :thumb:

Edit: I'm just playing devils advocate here. If I go for a paintjob, I make it very very clear what I expect done (mainly because I've had so many letdowns)


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Shug said:


> As is paint inside a tin I'd imagine.


But when you go to a bodyshop, you don;t buy paint in a tin. You buy a finished product - i.e. a painted car/panel etc


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

carbonangel said:


> but the product, a bottle of becks is exactly the same in either.


IMO the finished car isn't a "product" though. The paint you could argue is the product and could be the same, but the service/application is what turns it into the finished car.

£1000 spray job could = Halfords paint, under the arches premises, cheaper utilities, one man job. Could do a fantastic job

£5000 could = Halfords paint, town centre premises, expensive utilities, more employees to pay for. Could do a job only "as good" as the £1000 one


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

I'm pretty much of the opinion whatever you buy (and you buy a spray job - good or bad) you pay for quality.
I wouldn't dream of complaining that carpet at £2 per sq meter didn't last as long as axminster at £50 per sq meter or insist that a £5 valet made my car as clean as £2000 detail.
You can fly cattle class or pay more and fly business class on the same plane ... the difference isn't in the plane it's in the comfort and service you receive.
The rule of thumb is get 3 quotes and go for the middle one in the hopes that you get an average product/service for average money. 
In paint job terms wouldn't expect to accept the lowest quote from a guy operating in some dirty old farm building and get the same standard as the highest quote turning out pristine jobs from state of the art premises.

_It is unwise to pay too much, but it's unwise to pay to little.
When you pay too much you lose a little money, that's all.
When you pay to little you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do. 
The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. It can't be done.
If you deal with the lowest bidder, it's as well to add something on for the risk you run.
And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better._
John Ruskin (1819-1900)


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

Squiggs made the point I was trying to, but far better!


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Oh and paint isn't the same. Very little of it is. Why do you think theere are so many paint companies?

You can buy Lacquer at £5 a litre and save lots of money or you can buy some at £15 and have the better product and possibly a better finish on the job but charge out more for paint materials.

All bodyshops materials differ in price, fillers, sanding paper et al.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

so what is the correct price for good quality job for one panel respray say bonnet ?? no damage to panel just respray job


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## eatcustard (May 4, 2011)

Alzak said:


> so what is the correct price for good quality job for one panel respray say bonnet ?? no damage to panel just respray job


I payed £200 for my bonnet to be repainted, that's a take off, stripped down, paint and oven dry and the finish is the same as all the other panels.


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

It's not just the quality of products you're paying for though, in fact in a top class job the price of the products will be insignificant compared to the £££'s in man hours taken in doing it properly.

And that's the point I'm trying to make .... if you pay so low that the only way for the sprayer/business to make a profit after paying wages etc, etc is to rush the job and cut corners the standard of work is never going to be as good as a sprayer/business that charges accordingly high for the time they know it will take to do the job to high standards.

And if you opt for the cheaper option and then find out it's not of a high standard surely you can't demand they respray to high standards (if they can?), or insist they get it resprayed at a high end shop at their expense, or demand money back, or take them to court???? 
But where is the line drawn £££'s v's quality?


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

squiggs said:


> And that's the point I'm trying to make .... if you pay so low that the only way for the sprayer/business to make a profit after paying wages etc, etc is to rush the job and cut corners the standard of work is never going to be as good as a sprayer/business that charges accordingly high for the time they know it will take to do the job to high standards.


So how does the average punter know that they are not paying the right amount?

If someone can;t do the job 100% for the price they quote, then they should quote for how long it'll actually take, or make it very clear when you quote, that the job will not be 100%, wont be guaranteed etc.


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## audigex (Apr 2, 2012)

If someone quotes me for a job, I expect that job done properly - it's up to them to decide on their price for a good job, not down to me to decide where the cutoff is for good and bad service.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

do any of you guys work somewhere providing a service? say detailers..

someone wants to pay for an enhancement detail, but expect correction level work.. its not going to happen.

with paintwork, _most _of the time you get what you pay for...
I've seen paintshops who respray a whole car and if your lucky, they might take off the bonnet and paint it seperate... they charge say £2000 and the work is fine.
then I've seen paintshops like my mates where the doors, bonnet and boot are off, the door handles are taken apart, the bumpers are off, basically anything that can come apart to paint it better is done so.. he would likely charge around £4000 for this.

I wouldn't go to the first company and expect them to do the same as the second for half the money.. the same way as I wouldn't expect one of my customers to pay me half the asking price for the same job.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

squiggs said:


> It's not just the quality of products you're paying for though, in fact in a top class job the price of the products will be insignificant compared to the £££'s in man hours taken in doing it properly.
> 
> And that's the point I'm trying to make .... if you pay so low that the only way for the sprayer/business to make a profit after paying wages etc, etc is to rush the job and cut corners the standard of work is never going to be as good as a sprayer/business that charges accordingly high for the time they know it will take to do the job to high standards.
> 
> ...


I don't care if they make profit I pay what I have been asked to pay and expect job to be near perfect



audigex said:


> If someone quotes me for a job, I expect that job done properly - it's up to them to decide on their price for a good job, not down to me to decide where the cutoff is for good and bad service.


exactly this if I order some service and I get quote for this I expect job to be done 100% what I asked for


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I am of the opinion that you always get what you pay for, as an example, we have a body shop across the road who mainly do insurance work, I also know someone else who is a 2 man company and is more expensive than the insurance body shop. I know that if I take the car to the smaller outfit I will pay more, but when I get the car back it will be of a very good standard and I won't have to ***** or moan about it. It's right first time, they have an interest in cars and get work through word of mouth.

I fell out with the ford dealer in Peterborough, I had some work done once before and it was fine so I decided that when our puma wanted some insurance work carrying out I'd let them do it.... When it came back there were sticky edges where the tape had been and more worryingly a chip on the rear arch that they had laqured over, I argued that this was not there ( I know my car as I'm sure most on here know there's) after deciding I wasn't going to get anywhere I asked them why if it was there didn't they ring me and ask if I wanted to have it fixed even if it mean't me paying for it ? They just had a couldn't care less attitude, I told them there work was poor and I couldn't believe that nobody with pride in there work wouldn't have said anything .... 

Anyway keep away from tch pboro, the only exception I have for paying cheap and getting a good job is where people use the company equipment and paint stuff at weekends for beer money, you usually get some good work at a bargin price


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## *Das* (Aug 9, 2010)

squiggs said:


> I wouldn't dream of complaining that carpet at £2 per sq meter didn't last as long as axminster at £50 per sq meter


But you'd expect the guy fitting it to do as good a job fitting both carpets wouldn't you.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

DasArab said:


> But you'd expect the guy fitting it to do as good a job fitting both carpets wouldn't you.


Whilst a lot goes into the prep, some of it has to come down to the materials, I'm no painter but I do find a difference between halfords paint and that from a local motor factors who specialise in paint. It's like frying steak v fillet, they are both cuts of beef and come from the same cow but they taste completely different


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

SteveTDCi said:


> Whilst a lot goes into the prep, some of it has to come down to the materials, I'm no painter but I do find a difference between halfords paint and that from a local motor factors who specialise in paint. It's like frying steak v fillet, they are both cuts of beef and come from the same cow but they taste completely different


On a respray, how much of the cost is paint though? From stuff I've had done, its roughly 10%. So the other 90% is for the prep/finishing.


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

I am currently getting quotes to have my car resprayed.
One was less than half the price of the others. Using common sense, I dont plan to have them do the job then kick up a stink if it aint perfect. Because its bloody obvious it wont be! Its all well being self righteous and saying 'well it should be perfect regardless of price' but we all know thats not the way the world works.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

Shug said:


> I am currently getting quotes to have my car resprayed.
> One was less than half the price of the others. Using common sense, I dont plan to have them do the job then kick up a stink if it aint perfect. Because its bloody obvious it wont be! Its all well being self righteous and saying 'well it should be perfect regardless of price' but we all know thats not the way the world works.


so how about if the cheap place will be recommended by others and when You there owner show You his job which looks 100% perfect You still pick more expensive one ??


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

Alzak said:


> You should not agree standards say if You go to bodyshop and ask for price You expect job to be 100% no matter what You pay...


What a stupid statement.
By not agreeing standards it would equally mean that if the job turned out bad the bodyshop would be entitled to say 'You asked me to spray it. You never told me you wanted it 100% - I've done what was asked - I've sprayed it!'


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## *Das* (Aug 9, 2010)

SteveTDCi said:


> Whilst a lot goes into the prep, some of it has to come down to the materials, I'm no painter but I do find a difference between halfords paint and that from a local motor factors who specialise in paint. It's like frying steak v fillet, they are both cuts of beef and come from the same cow but they taste completely different


I take it we are on about aerosol cans? If we are I have found the exact opposite. I painted the side skirts of my Vectra and bought from my local automotive paint store, you know the ones that fill the can while you wait, and the paint content was shocking. I had to use 3 large cans and still the coverage was terrible. Went to Halfords and bought a single can and it did a far better job than the 3 cans from the so called specialist.


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

Alzak said:


> so how about if the cheap place will be recommended by others and when You there owner show You his job which looks 100% perfect You still pick more expensive one ??


That would be the exception to the rule.
If one place is a lot cheaper than many others, the question 'why?' is a good one to ask. Are they using inferior paint? cutting corners? air drying rather than baking? 
Vast majority of the populace would get their car back and say oooooo purty. For people on here, there is a lot more to it. Thats why gritty sponge car washes make money, and detailers also exist. 
At the end of the day, you go to the cheap guy but dont be surprised if you get a cheap job. Not everyone in this world is honest and hardworking. maybe I'm just cynical.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

squiggs said:


> What a stupid statement.
> By not agreeing standards it would equally mean that if the job turned out bad the bodyshop would be entitled to say 'You asked me to spray it. You never told me you wanted it 100% - I've done what was asked - I've sprayed it!'


Yeah but I ask owner how good finish will be after respray and he say it will be good no orange peel or any imperfections !!!


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## masammut (Jul 13, 2011)

I would accept nothing short of a factory quality job whatever the price. In Malta we are lucky that we have very high standards in this respect and reasonable prices - something in the region of Euro1000 for a complete respray of a normal car - and you would not be able to tell the job apart from a new factory sprayed car. Naturally there are others who do shoddy jobs too, like everywhere else.

My friend just resprayed the front and rear bumpers, bonnet, drivers door, and boot of his 2009 BMW e90 plus removal of dings and some touch ups complete with full machine polish for Euro700. 
The process followed - Bumpers and bonnet and boot were removed and were dry sanded down to the primer. Drivers door weather strips and handle and side mirror were removed and the door was dry sanded down to the primer too. Then 1 layer of primer, 2 of paint and 3 of lacquer were sprayed on. Then the whole car was flatted and polished back. Then he was given an appointment for a month later to finish off the polish to perfection. The time was needed to let the new paint set properly.
I checked the paint thicknesses with my paint gauge - factory spray 130um - new spray 180um. Very respectable i think.


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

1000 euro? I'll be driving my car to malta for a respray I think. Will be a lot cheaper :lol:


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

audigex said:


> If someone quotes me for a job, I expect that job done properly - it's up to them to decide on their price for a good job, not down to me to decide where the cutoff is for good and bad service.


Why would you expect the job to be done properly? 
What is properly? 
Maybe the way its been done it has been done properly as far as they're concerned .. for the price they charge ... but their properly doesn't match your properly because you expected better.

It *is* up to you to decide where *your* cut off point for good/bad service/quality is!
And having made your decision it dictates what you are willing to pay and what service/quality you expect - and you do this day in day out with almost everything you buy .... 
If you're hungry you'll decide if you want to go to a burger joint or a meal at a restaurant. 
Both will do the same job and fill you up, but one will be a higher quality of meal than the other and one will cost more than the other. 
If you chose the burger joint you wouldn't be expecting it to be of the same quality of meal as it would have been if you had chosen to go to the restaurant. 
You decided on the burger joint - you decided where your cut off point was and then you paid accordingly without expecting the service or quality of the meal at the restaurant.

Similarly you can't get a car painted for burger joint prices and then expect restaurant quality .... 
The decision is yours!


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

Shug said:


> 1000 euro? I'll be driving my car to malta for a respray I think. Will be a lot cheaper :lol:


:thumb:

:lol:


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

800 quid in petrol there and back (if my maths is right. 4000ish miles), 1000 euros is just above 800 quid. 400 quid for hotels for almost a week.
So 2000 quid for a good quality respray, and a road trip/holiday as a bonus!


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## EliteCarCare (Aug 25, 2006)

There are SOOO many variables when it comes to paintwork.

The quality of the materials, the quality of the environment, the tools used etc etc.

It's best to go by recommendation and examples, never allow the price to dictate your decision.

Alex


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Shug said:


> 800 quid in petrol there and back (if my maths is right. 4000ish miles), 1000 euros is just above 800 quid. 400 quid for hotels for almost a week.
> So 2000 quid for a good quality respray, and a road trip/holiday as a bonus!


Sounds good to me


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

In my eyes its all relative , my friends a painter - he does 
A good job for what he charges but if I had a Lambo I'd go 
Elsewhere and pay more . Like said if you want a top job pay top 
Money and get it . That said the op's paint is hideous and I 
Wouldn't be happy with it even if it was cheap . But I would allow 
Them to rectify it


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