# Scratched windscreen



## footfistart (Dec 2, 2013)

Evening all.
I have mk4 mondeo TXS and I washed and rainX the windscreen and I have noticed ting scratches which follows the route of the wipers. As these are only faint will a glass polish,polish this out. If so can it be done by machine using normal pads to speed the process up?
I know if you have deep scratches you need some oxide with special pads but I don't need that as the screen isn't damaged in that sense. I used IPA before hand to clean screen and wipers. 
I just hate driving at night and seeing the light from cars being streaked by these marks. 

I do plan for some gtechniq glass protection but want to sort this out first.

Many Thanks

Ryan.


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## Luke M (Jul 1, 2013)

Normal pads and polish won't likely shift it. 
If you have that already then give it a crack. 
Cerium oxide is quite cheap as are rayon pads if you don't get any joy.


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## DJBAILEY (May 7, 2011)

Normal glass polishes are good enough for water spots and deep cleaning.

Wiper scratches are damage though. That's all you can expect to correct on a windshield are the wiper marks. Its too hard to remove deep scratches. You can make the optics of the windshield look funny if you correct too much in one spot.

Carpro Ceriglass and their glass pads are what you need. They are very easy to use with a DA. It's not overkill. Get the small 6oz (I think) and a 5" and 3" pad. I bet you'll end up doing all your windows on all your cars


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## Dougnorwich (Jun 27, 2014)

Hit it with a hammer and claim on insurance


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Dougnorwich said:


> Hit it with a hammer and claim on insurance


Then pay £70 excess?

Hmmm


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## Monny Fan (Sep 27, 2014)

Screen is about 230 for a mk4 mondeo heated one so check insurance if you have an excess or not


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## Glassy (Nov 13, 2013)

Dougnorwich said:


> Hit it with a hammer and claim on insurance


Shirley you mean, *accidentally* hit it with a hammer so that it doesn't look like you're defrauding the insurance company, and not contributing to the rising cost of premiums? (Not to mention the claim being recorded on your insurance history).

In any case, even if you successfully managed to drive into a flying hammer - accidentally, of course - your insurer will nominate their preferred supplier; the preferred supplier will send a fitter who may be decent, or might not be, to fit a cheap pattern part.


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## dave-g (Nov 14, 2009)

You can replace a screen because of scratches if you feel they are obstructing your vision. 

In regards to quality, often screens are actually made in the same factories just different stamps. A lot of genuine are poor btw


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## Glassy (Nov 13, 2013)

dave-g said:


> You can replace a screen because of scratches if you feel they are obstructing your vision.


Of course you can. You pays your money and you gets it done. if the inference is about _claiming_ for one on insurance, this would depend on each individual insurer, and what they construe as damage. Generally speaking, for an insurer to agree to indemnify loss following 'cosmetic' damage to glass it would need to be in exceptional circumstances.



dave-g said:


> In regards to quality, often screens are actually made in the same factories just different stamps. A lot of genuine are poor btw


Really? Please elaborate.


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## dave-g (Nov 14, 2009)

One for example, a pilkington range rover sport screen, same screen as a factory screen only without badge. But if you look close enough you can Infact see the land rover/range rover sign through the pilkington cross. First thing shown to me on my training course when I started.

Again as above, the insurers never see the screen so therefore it's up to the windscreen company or fitter to determine whether or not the screen is eligible for replacement, as you would know by he sounds of it. The insurance company don't visually inspect screens.

No claims bonus etc depends on each insurer. Admiral have started to deduct apparently.


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## Rob74 (Jul 29, 2012)

If you do have a new screen fitted check your insurance, I know if you have a glass claim with swift cover you wouldn't earn any ncb for this yr. 

I was with them last yr and paid for my own as it was cheeper than not getting my ncb & paying the £100 excess


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## Glassy (Nov 13, 2013)

dave-g said:


> One for example, a pilkington range rover sport screen, same screen as a factory screen only without badge. But if you look close enough you can Infact see the land rover/range rover sign through the pilkington cross. First thing shown to me on my training course when I started.


Yes, you're 100% correct. But this doesn't support any claim that OEM and aftermarket equivalent versions are made in the same factory, or the difference is merely 'a stamp'.

The Land Rover screen is a rare exception, as are some FIAT and SEAT examples. If you look at say, an Audi A3 windscreen (Eurocode 8580) the OEM is Guardian. Pop along to one of your aftermarket glass distributors (other than Pilkington for obvious reasons) and you might find the screen put on the counter is a Guardian. Is it the same? Do the Pepsi challenge and the answer will soon become apparent.

I've done extensive research into the subject. For example, AGC (or Splintex on some lines) say that their 'snidey' screens for the ARG market 'respond' to "OEM main technical and aesthetic characteristics". In other words, it *looks* the same and will fit in the same way as the real McCoy. The same can be said about the Gucci shoes you buy from Italy compared to the 'Made in China' versions you might get through the Bay of E. They both look the same and both will fit your feet.



dave-g said:


> Again as above, the insurers never see the screen so therefore it's up to the windscreen company or fitter to determine whether or not the screen is eligible for replacement, as you would know by he sounds of it. The insurance company don't visually inspect screens.
> 
> No claims bonus etc depends on each insurer. Admiral have started to deduct apparently.


Anyone turning up to repair or replace a windscreen which is being indemnified by an insurance company is representing that insurer, and in doing so is making a claim assessment on behalf of that insco. Yes, the insurer does not see the screen, but they are relying on their nominated supplier's fitter to do what's right. Remember the battery scandal with RAC and Auto Windscreens?


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## dave-g (Nov 14, 2009)

Guessing with all the knowledge technically you appear to have, you've obviously in the trade?!

So on another account, would you also agree that some standard fit screens from dealers are very poor too? I:e the laminating problems a lot have after a relatively short time? I've seen aftermarket screens, say nordglass, outlast a factory ford screen by a long shot? Granted some are poor, some are not, but then that's often the case with factory!

Same with the workmanship side of things, factory glue lines are appaling, I'm yet to see even a trainee fitter do that poor a job with some of them!

2012 vw polo screens are bare-edged, yet most seem to be touching the left aperture, which is factory fault.

Transit custom screens often come to us from dealers as they de-lam at the top n/a, again from touching on the aperture. The list goes on.

Tbf it's quite dis-heartening to see somebody who has the knowledge and I'm guessing here, experience of the job, have so little faith in it. Just from how you've said in these 2 threads about how poor fitters are makes me question why you'd do it?!


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## Glassy (Nov 13, 2013)

dave-g said:


> Guessing with all the knowledge technically you appear to have, you've obviously in the trade?!
> 
> So on another account, would you also agree that some standard fit screens from dealers are very poor too? I:e the laminating problems a lot have after a relatively short time? I've seen aftermarket screens, say nordglass, outlast a factory ford screen by a long shot? Granted some are poor, some are not, but then that's often the case with factory!
> 
> ...


Based on what I have seen, my assessment of the trade is that eight of ten 'fitters' are nothing more than average. There are very few who are skilled to a high level (something you too alluded to in an earlier post). For example, if a guy is out there fitting say, six windscreens a day, the repetition of using a glue gun should make his bond lines *perfect*. The reality is very few can show the dexterity required to achieve a perfect bondline. In fact, an overwhelming majority are still applying adhesive to the body (multiple joins; incorrectly butted joins; Walnut Whips, tunneling, insufficient bead height; twisted beads; over decked, overrun, etc). You'd think there would be at least _some_ emphasis on perfecting the basics!

The sad reality is, an alarming number of fitters see the job as being nothing more than glorified tyre fitters (not my words, BTW). The IMI's ATA scheme amounted to nothing more than a piece of plastic that nobody recognised (even the IMI themselves don't regard automotive glazing enough to talk about it in their own magazine, yet air conditioning techs, auto electricians, four-wheel alignment techs, mechanics et al are the champions of the motor industry???). We even saw the appearance of an autoglazing 'academy' which did nothing more than regurgitate age-old techniques some of which can be proven to be fundamentally wrong (an academy which does not research, innovate, or do any development of its own?? FFS).

Take a look at how the cogs of this industry work. An estimated 70% of cars/vans/lorries on the road are insured for glass damage. The industry is chasing _that_ market. There's a bit of food to be had at the fleet dining tables and there's still some bodyshop work being done. Niche, and specialist work is a very small part of the industry and generally speaking, the more experienced/skilled guys can be found here (frankly speaking, a lot of knowledge will disappear once these guys hang up their wire handles for good).

As for the glass quality side of things. I think you're basing your knowledge on the exposure you've had within the four walls of your employer (TBF, I did the same many years ago; you tend to base the entire industry on how you see it, working for a large company). *Who do you think sells more glass, OEM or aftermarket?* Why do you think that is? I see what you're saying about Nordglass (and would agree that some of their product lines _are_ quite good) but I disagree with the inference that aftermarket glass is better than 'authentic', or genuine. No way. I'm not saying I'm 100% right, no one is BTW, and nobody ever will be. I've not had any experience with Transit Customs, and as far as the VAG stuff goes, I think there is a lot to be said about exposed glass edges, especially on Land Rovers and Jaguars where there is no edge protection on heated units. If I was to be cynical, I might want to suggest that having a more durable windscreen would be damaging to the manufacturers and distributors. But why would I suspect there are such machinations in this industry? Perish the thought. The industry is built on trust and integrity. I can show you some simple measures which would prolong the life of a windscreen, yet the manufacturers will refuse to comment. Funny that. They must be too busy shifting large volumes to key accounts.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'little faith', but I have faith in my own ability, I love the job, I love the work I do and I have made a lot of friends from the work I have done during my 25 years in the motor industry. There are a lot of blindside flankers I have no time for (and most of them are *allegedly* windscreen professionals).

Re factory fitted screens. Yep, agreed. A lot of the more recent stuff seems to be going wrong and a lot of this is down to assembly line automation where having a car misaligned on the pod by a few millimeters as it passes through each station means that something 'one shot' which requires precision - like a windscreen - will result in the glass being off centre etc. This is a reality of automated assembly lines and even though I maintain that highly skilled windscreen fitters are few and far between, a windscreen fitted by hand _can_ be better than the factory fitted.

Have I covered everything? 

:thumb:


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## dave-g (Nov 14, 2009)

I don't want you to feel that I'm arguing the cause here at all, I'm not, as like you said above from my perspective I am basically from the 'four walls' environment as you put it 

I've looked out into the industry more as it is interesting, and seeing other fitters work does scare me occasionally, but also some of it is perfection. But yes I would agree, a lot of so called pro's are a joke who just see it as a job, as that is it at the end of the day. Few carry it further. I too love the job, haven't been in it for long but i just find it fascinating. I do a bit of body shop stuff now, and dealership, but that is where I personally find that standard glass is poor. My own opinion of course.

As for professional, I feel in this industry I'm always going to be learning so will never know everything.


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## Glassy (Nov 13, 2013)

dave-g said:


> As for professional, I feel in this industry I'm always going to be learning so will never know everything.


Spot on.

There's always something new to learn. Nobody is infallible, or the finished article.


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

Here's what I've been able to achieve.
A HUGE improvement in visibility. At night it was horrible to look through, as it was basically swirled to hell, did take a bit of time and made a lot of mess which was a pain to clear up however the results are well worth it.

IMG_5721 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

Before 1

IMG_5725 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

After 1

IMG_5726 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

Before 2

IMG_5722 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

After 2

IMG_5724 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr


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## footfistart (Dec 2, 2013)

That's amazing. I wouldn't want to use that oxide as I don't Want to risk damaging the screen. I've got both dual action and rotary so I could possibly achieve a high level of correction but what else is there that I can use that won't cause too much heat build up ect ect. I have a range of pads from waxing up to microfiber. Can you use normal compounds like you do for paint work?


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

footfistart said:


> That's amazing. I wouldn't want to use that oxide as I don't Want to risk damaging the screen. I've got both dual action and rotary so I could possibly achieve a high level of correction but what else is there that I can use that won't cause too much heat build up ect ect. I have a range of pads from waxing up to microfiber. Can you use normal compounds like you do for paint work?


No, you need to use rayon pads and cerium oxide based polish.
Nothing wrong with using them - need to use a rotary as well as glass is very very hard to polish.

my screen was washed, clayed and a normal glass polish was used prior to the photos being taken, with a normal foam/microfibre and car polishes you would improve visibility somewhat but not remove some of the deeper marks many of which cause the horrible experience when driving at night. :thumb:


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## nog (Jul 14, 2013)

Apologies to OP for going a bit off topic. After a grand total of 1400 miles in out new focus got a small chip in screen last week. Took it to Autoglass for repair and whilst trying to fix it the screen cracked, fitter had explained beforehand there was a risk of cracking when repair was being carried out. 
New screen to be fitted later this week, are we likely to notice the difference? (Current screen is heated)


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

nog said:


> Apologies to OP for going a bit off topic. After a grand total of 1400 miles in out new focus got a small chip in screen last week. Took it to Autoglass for repair and whilst trying to fix it the screen cracked, fitter had explained beforehand there was a risk of cracking when repair was being carried out.
> New screen to be fitted later this week, are we likely to notice the difference? (Current screen is heated)


That's fairly common. Same happened on my Golf.

You shouldn't notice any difference...


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## Glassy (Nov 13, 2013)

nog said:


> the screen cracked, fitter had explained beforehand there was a risk of cracking when repair was being carried out


What type of equipment did he use?


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## Rascal_69 (Sep 20, 2009)

Ceriglass here too


Untitled by arfanrasul, on Flickr

Massive difference


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