# £53 Million everyday to be a Member



## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

When things are tough at home I stop my memberships so I can't understand why we give the EU £53 Million everyday to be a member.

Do we benefit from it? i.e is it a worth while investment?


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

not really imo. 

the original reason we were told when we joined was as as free trade area. basically it was a Trojan horse to take over sovereign nations to a political and economical elite few.

so leaving the European union can' t come sooner enough. sure in the short term our economy will probably suffer, but in the long term we'll be better off.

that' s why I voted ukip (amongst other reasons) previously and will vote for them again. they are now ideologically what the Tories are suppose to represent - low taxes, small government, free markets,self determination etc - everything the eu is against!


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## TRN Ent (Nov 16, 2008)

I've not read much into it but when I said to someone I think it's a waste of money they answered something about it brings/allows us to do more trade.
Well why should we as a country not be able to trade as much without being a member of the EU?
I don't understand it all really and like most other things politics/government related it angers me why there is so much waste. (But I'm not a politician so I wouldn't know why all decisions are made)
Tom.

Edit: Also just worked out it costs each Person of the UK £309 a year to be a Member of the EU.


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## ivor (Sep 24, 2008)

Ask Norway why their not in the EU ,funny enough their economy has not really suffered


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

ivor said:


> Ask Norway why their not in the EU ,funny enough their economy has not really suffered


Yes but Norway economy rely on oil and gas sales which UK do not have anymore ...

And other thing is tax free trade within Europe is massive bonus ... if England will leave EU most of Europe countries will find cheaper product somewhere else ...as for now there is not a lot paperwork involved if You buy something within EU countries.

In my opinion UK should stay as EU member but get back some sovereignty back from EU...


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

ivor said:


> Ask Norway why their not in the EU ,funny enough their economy has not really suffered


But if you look they still pay huge amounts to trade EEC , it's the law's and regulation that are forced upon us two examples , Fishing, and Financial services I did a Diploma in Financial services regulation and we have to accept what they say 100%. Look at Polland infrastructure and stuff massive development with our money IMHO why oh why when the country is in big mess. I think parliament is completely out of touch with reality in the real world imho


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Alzak said:


> Yes but Norway economy rely on oil and gas sales which UK do not have anymore ...
> 
> And other thing is tax free trade within Europe is massive bonus ... if England will leave EU most of Europe countries will find cheaper product somewhere else ...as for now there is not a lot paperwork involved if You buy something within EU countries.
> 
> In my opinion UK should stay as EU member but get back some sovereignty back from EU...


Still plenty left in North Sea and west of Shetland next , then wave power generation I think will be big imho


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

Derekh929 said:


> Still plenty left in North Sea and west of Shetland next , then wave power generation I think will be big imho


Not as much to produce 20% of Gross domestic product as Norway do... oil and gas is something about 55% of Norway export ... they do not have much more than that.


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## ottostein (Sep 11, 2012)

I say get out. British cars actually be made in GB instead of shipping out to other countries, 53 million a day. I could think of much better ways of spending 53 million. and 6 BILLION on the Olympics. I agree is meant to be a legacy but i cant see any of the street kids getting off the street and into sport.

my 3 major problem solving ideas

1. Close immigration down. Be like Australia where you must bring something to the country, not just your 10 - 12 kids. Find all the illegal immigrants and tell them to suck a fat one and go

2. Mps expenses. Get the bus like everyone else, why the feel they need to have people drive them around is beyond me. There human just like you and i

3. Drugs money. Now at the point of when the drugs buyer got paid at some point it was taxed, Now there is millions and millions in evidence bags around the country, and what happens to it all. It gets burnt, when you could be using it to fund community projects - doing up some local gardens. planting new trees in the park ect ect.

The coalition is living in a dream world talking about bringing down the deficit, its all BS. Get out of the eu, sod brussels < thats what i eat on a roast dinner not listen to and lick ass dictating what i do > Thats what the eu are a dictatorship! Cameron is a little ***** because he wont do a referendum till after the general elections. He wont be in power next time.

Rant over


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

Alzak said:


> Yes but Norway economy rely on oil and gas sales which UK do not have anymore ...
> 
> And other thing is tax free trade within Europe is massive bonus ... if England will leave EU most of Europe countries will find cheaper product somewhere else ...as for now there is not a lot paperwork involved if You buy something within EU countries.
> 
> In my opinion UK should stay as EU member but get back some sovereignty back from EU...


the problem is we don' t produce that much in the UK for the Europeans to buy anymore.


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## ianrobbo1 (Feb 13, 2007)

If we stop paying into the pot, we suffer at the beginning, our products prices would soar and we would be unable to sell them abroad, however, the migrant workforce would have to go home, "theirs not ours" and the jobs they are currently doing would become available to British residents again, "if we can get some of the idle off the dole" 
after the initial hit though, I think we will start and become a "producing" again, instead of the "service" nation that we've become!!


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

ianrobbo1 said:


> If we stop paying into the pot, we suffer at the beginning, our products prices would soar and we would be unable to sell them abroad, however, the migrant workforce would have to go home, "theirs not ours" and the jobs they are currently doing would become available to British residents again, "if we can get some of the idle off the dole"
> after the initial hit though, I think we will start and become a "producing" again, instead of the "service" nation that we've become!!


who lead us from being an industrial giant to a service industry i'll never forgive that c**t dirty double dealing/standards politicians :devil:


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

I can't see any reason to remain a member. People appear to assume that the whole of Europe will stop trading with us if we leave. The fact is that we import much more than we export so to stop free trade with the EU if we left would hurt them more than us.

Correspondingly, we'd also be open to free trade agreements with the rest of the world which is something we're not allowed to do as a member of the EU currently.

I think there's something in the Lisbon Treaty about the member states being obliged to attempt to agree a free trade agreement upon any member state leaving the EU? I stand to be corrected on that though...

I also understand that we sold off much of our oil and gas reserves too? Perhaps that's why there's not much GDP in it any more...


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2013)

I've wanted out for years! We pay in more than most, if not THE most, and receive the least. This country has been raped by the EU. Ted Heath was a lying git when he duped people into joining the 'common market'. Blair and Brown have made it 100 times worse! Other countries will still trade with us and we can legitimately expel the millions of EU immigrants that have taken over this country.

I can't wait until we leave the EU. On that day I will be throwing a massive f*ck*ff party and you're all invited!..(except europhiles and EU immigrants).


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

And the Americans want us to remain in . Of course for their interests not ours!


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## ianrobbo1 (Feb 13, 2007)

Now I know this is going to be a statement that will probably end up with me being a "target"  but the ONLY person that had the balls to sort out the EU and actually GET huge payments from the EU, was in fact "Thatcher":doublesho

since then the lilly livered back stabbing barstuward politicians, have completely turned it around, and chucked everything the ol **** did that was actually going OUR way in the bin and then some!!


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## ottostein (Sep 11, 2012)

I dont see how the US gains anything out of us being in the EU? 

Sooner someone grows some balls and sorts the mess out the better.
And in a few years time 33m Bolivians can come and sponge from the taxpayer, was something on the daily mail website about a bunch of gypsies saying they cant wait for it.

Really boils my **** this does. Seeing as the british people allready struggling to find jobs and they just let people in left right and centre. All PC now saying illegal to not employ 30 Multicultural people in a 35 strong workforce.


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

First off I'll start by saying I don't know anything like enough about the subject as I would like to. I honestly don't know if that's my fault, or the information simply is not freely available to "Joe public"

I know that we allegedly put in £53,000,000 quid a day, so that is £19,345,000,000 a year a truly frightening figure.

After a quick Google, I found some figures..

_A European Commission study of the single market in 2007 found that the EU GDP was raised by 2.2 per cent (€233 billion) and 2.75 million jobs were created between the introduction of the single market in 1992 and 2006. For the UK, that increase in GDP would have been around £25 billion. The Government's Department of Business, Innovation & Skills estimates that EU Member States trade twice as much with each other as a result of the single market - which they estimate has meant that increased trade within the EU since the 1980s could have been worth around six per cent higher income per capita in the UK. Exports to other EU countries account for 51 per cent of the UK's exports of goods and services, worth £200 billion; trade with the US, by contrast, constitutes 13 per cent of UK exports.

The Business Department in the UK estimates that 3.5 million jobs in Britain are linked, directly or indirectly, to the UK's trade with other Member States._

There are also personal benefits that allow us all to move and work much more freely within the EU. And opens up a potential market of 500 million people.

I really haven't given it any great thought but my gut feeling is the same as when your playing football. You can't score goals if you aren't in the team. All you can do is shout from the sidelines. But I'm open minded and undecided even if we do have a referendum.



> the problem is we don' t produce that much in the UK for the Europeans to buy anymore.


That is and will be an even bigger problem in the future, we simple are no longer a manufacturing power. At the moment iirc we are the worlds 5th biggest economy. In 25 years time I'd be surprised if we are in the top 15-20. The EU isn't going to be the powerhouse, Asia, China and the Pacific rim are. Even if we are not a member of the EU, we simply no longer have the money, skills or resources to invest in the UK, when it is more profitable to invest elsewhere. The likes of Honda & Toyota would not be here now if the UK were not in the EU, it's presents Japan with a unique path into Europe.

As I say I don't know enough about it, but as yet I would lean slightly to staying within the union, even in the face of mass immigration. To be honest that is simply because we couldn't be bothered to count heads and simply left the doors open. In and out. Multiculturalism and how it has worked or not worked has been down to our governments/MP's trying to score political points over each other as much as mandates from the EU.

I'll get me coat...


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

CleanMe said:


> I've wanted out for years! We pay in more than most, if not THE most, and receive the least. This country has been raped by the EU. Ted Heath was a lying git when he duped people into joining the 'common market'. Blair and Brown have made it 100 times worse! Other countries will still trade with us and we can legitimately expel the millions of EU immigrants that have taken over this country.
> 
> I can't wait until we leave the EU. On that day I will be throwing a massive f*ck*ff party and you're all invited!..(except europhiles and EU immigrants).


I wish You all the best best on Your party :thumb:

If You really think all of us will be sent back home... good luck with this way of thinking, don't get me wrong in my opinion at least 50% of EU migrants should't be here but how about those who give something back to UK community? not just take ?

EU immigrant


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## ottostein (Sep 11, 2012)

I am all for the immigrants that work and work hard its the ones which sponge and have kids for more benefits that get on my ****. IMO the government is scared to kick all the illegals out in hear of a backlash from the different groups in the UK at this time in present


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

Alzak said:


> but how about those who give something back to UK community? not just take ?
> 
> EU immigrant


Spot on, NHS for one has many immigrants working within it's doors and is the better for it..

There are as many if not more UK born freeloaders as immigants. People are good and bad no matter where they hail from.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

ottostein said:


> I am all for the immigrants that work and work hard its the ones which sponge and have kids for more benefits that get on my ****. IMO the government is scared to kick all the illegals out in hear of a backlash from the different groups in the UK at this time in present


There is very simple way to reduce this problem make immigrants entitled to benefits after 3-5 years living in this country not straight away after moving here as this is just wrong... As You do not put anything to the "pot" so how You can take something from it?


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## ottostein (Sep 11, 2012)

Alzak said:


> There is very simple way to reduce this problem make immigrants entitled to benefits after 3-5 years living in this country not straight away after moving here as this is just wrong... As You do not put anything to the "pot" so how You can take something from it?


I dont think the govt will ever do that, maybe 1 - 2 years no job then benifits off but i cant see many people taking it. It would be a breach of human rights probs

I see what your coming from though, If you dont put in you sure as hell aint getting anything out of it.

All i know is i think this country is going to be right up the poop shoot in 20 - 30 years


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## Overdoser (Oct 25, 2010)

20 to 30 years? It'll be a lot sooner........


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

ottostein said:


> I dont think the govt will ever do that, maybe 1 - 2 years no job then benifits off but i cant see many people taking it. It would be a breach of human rights probs
> 
> I see what your coming from though, If you dont put in you sure as hell aint getting anything out of it.
> 
> All i know is i think this country is going to be right up the poop shoot in 20 - 30 years


I really cant see why not ??

The entire benefits system should be based upon what each and every individual has paid in !! No matter where they originate from no matter what age or sex the claimant or potential claimant is..

We hear every day about immigrants coming into the UK and claiming money from day 1

We hear every day about the so called benefits dependant generation who have and have no intention of working whilst they can get hand outs all the time.

Surely the whole system should revolve around one main thing ? IE you pay in and hit bad times You receive help.. You don't so Errr You don't !

Feck Me the government a couple of years ago raised the pensionable age from 65 to 67... Yesterday they introduced measures to once again take money off those that make it to pensionable age..

One of the criteria is that only those that work and pay in for 35 years or more get the full pension !! Those that have not will not !!

So not that hard is it !!


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## ivor (Sep 24, 2008)

Alzak said:


> Yes but Norway economy rely on oil and gas sales which UK do not have anymore ...
> 
> And other thing is tax free trade within Europe is massive bonus ... if England will leave EU most of Europe countries will find cheaper product somewhere else ...as for now there is not a lot paperwork involved if You buy something within EU countries.
> 
> In my opinion UK should stay as EU member but get back some sovereignty back from EU...


And they also have the policy that if you go there and don't get a job within 3months your **** is out the country no excuse


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

suspal said:


> who lead us from being an industrial giant to a service industry i'll never forgive that c**t dirty double dealing/standards politicians :devil:


Depends how you look at that one.

Refusal to modernise cost our industries dearly. All the politicians did was shut down a non sustainable industry.


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2013)

Alzak said:


> If You really think all of us will be sent back home... good luck with this way of thinking, don't get me wrong in my opinion at least 50% of EU migrants should't be here but how about those who give something back to UK community? not just take ?
> 
> EU immigrant


Alzak, I live in a small Norfolk town called Thetford that has a population of around 43,000 people and way way more than half are EU migrants. That is not an exaggeration. I don't know that ANY OF THEM give to this community. The kind of things they are entitled to through EU funding is unbelievable. They work hard, that's undeniable, but send most of their money back home.
They don't want to fit in with the local population and there is fighting and street drinking every day.
I really don't see how this country is benefiting from the EU at all.
Statistics show that NO country has benefited from massive migration EVER!

You might be a very nice person, but I am thinking of _my_ country and _my_ family's future.


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## shinyporsche (Oct 30, 2012)

As someone who was trying to do business in many parts of Europe before the EU, without the ability to transfer money around, the inability to move things over borders, the inability to sell products because of differing standards and the inability to get paid because of wildly different legal systems in each country … I say thank God for the EU.


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2013)

shinyporsche said:


> As someone who was trying to do business in many parts of Europe before the EU, without the ability to transfer money around, the inability to move things over borders, the inability to sell products because of differing standards and the inability to get paid because of wildly different legal systems in each country … I say thank God for the EU.


It does seem to me that it's businesses that are all for the EU and the public against. Most businesses only care about their own profit, as we know all too well in this rip off country, and care very little for the customer.
Kind of says it all when the greed merchants say the EU is good!


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

Either that or the businesses understand economics and the public understand how they "feel".

I wonder how much is researched knowledge and how much is happenstance.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

CleanMe said:


> Alzak, I live in a small Norfolk town called Thetford that has a population of around 43,000 people and way way more than half are EU migrants. That is not an exaggeration. I don't know that ANY OF THEM give to this community. The kind of things they are entitled to through EU funding is unbelievable. They work hard, that's undeniable, but send most of their money back home.
> They don't want to fit in with the local population and there is fighting and street drinking every day.
> I really don't see how this country is benefiting from the EU at all.
> Statistics show that NO country has benefited from massive migration EVER!
> ...


I fully understand Your concern ... I'm with You about all this benefit BS ... we should not be allowed to use system for say 3-5 years after moving to UK other thing which I don't get is Polish people who do not even try to learn language of country which they live in ... I moved here without any knowledge of English language but I have been given a chance to learn it for free so why not :thumb: I still have lot of to learn I know that but I happy where I am at the moment with my speaking, writing and reading as without language there is no way You can socialise with local community...

Thing is WE do not vote for government which gives us right to come to UK ... so hardly think is our fault ...

When You saing that most of the money is sent back to Poland You are wrong ... I can just talk about myself and my Mates in 7 years which I spend in UK only time when I send something to Poland is just as a gift for my family which is still back home, what ewer is a money as I don't know what to buy or some kind if gift...and most of my friends are the same ...

I save money for house deposit :thumb: as I'm serious about living in this country.


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2013)

Gruffs said:


> Either that or the businesses understand economics and the public understand how they "feel".
> 
> I wonder how much is researched knowledge and how much is happenstance.


Cheap shot and condescending ! 
I have a fair knowledge of politics, thank you, and there's nothing wrong with 'feeling' something; perhaps big business would benefit from 'feeling' for their customers.


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2013)

Alzak said:


> I fully understand Your concern ... I'm with You about all this benefit BS ... we should not be allowed to use system for say 3-5 years after moving to UK other thing which I don't get is Polish people who do not even try to learn language of country which they live in ... I moved here without any knowledge of English language but I have been given a chance to learn it for free so why not :thumb: I still have lot of to learn I know that but I happy where I am at the moment with my speaking, writing and reading as without language there is no way You can socialise with local community...
> 
> Thing is WE do not vote for government which gives us right to come to UK ... so hardly think is our fault ...
> 
> ...


I would say your English is fairly good, Alzak. You are right in saying that in order to integrate fully you must learn the language, but then we English don't have a very good record on that  May I ask how you got free English lessons?

I agree that the UK government are to blame for the massive immigration problems and why shouldn't you take advantage of something that is freely offered to you, but we in the UK are not happy at having to bear the brunt of the whole mess. I doubt your countrymen would feel any different if we invaded you in the millions!

You sound like a decent bloke and I appreciate that you are just trying to make a decent living in another country and clearly trying to integrate. Economic migration has been successful for many years, but it's the numbers that are making the difference this time.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

Those free lessons ware available trough courses called ESOL on fair few colleges around my area... As far as I'm aware now EU migrants have to pay for it now, but others still get it for free... 
From what I see mass migration is/was a problem in UK for many years, as I can see loads of different nationalities in this country...

I will say 60-70% Polish people shouldn't be here ... They left a mess behind them in Poland, and after getting chance for "better" life in this country they do not take this opportunity at all.


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

CleanMe said:


> Cheap shot and condescending !
> I have a fair knowledge of politics, thank you, and there's nothing wrong with 'feeling' something; perhaps big business would benefit from 'feeling' for their customers.


Sorry you took it personally.

I was referring to the voting public at large who have next to no knowledge of politics, economics or how the country as a whole has to be considered beyond themselves as they are under the assumption that they are special somehow.

'Feelings' are selfish and dangerous and easily manipulated if not tempered.

Yes, I did quote you but it was meant as a quote of your text not you directly. I quite often do that.


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