# Creating Money & the financial system



## kh904

After discussion in previous threads, a few members wanted to know more about the money, economic system & how many people are unaware of it, here's a few great video's the should be able to explain how it works (as i'm eloquent enough to explain it in layman terms:

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/ (check the video on the home page)















 (before the credit crunch, late 90'searly 00's)









 - Ron Paul is is incredibly brilliant!!!

Interesting as the US $ is and has been ready to collapse for a while (and including us in the UK and those currencies that are linked to the $)


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## ant_s

Damn you! After the Bin Laden thread, I had a few hours yesterday so started googling things you, Mat and Cuey mentioned and now I hate the world, hate money and hate the americans!

Was going to start a thread about all this money goings-on, as alot of people have no idea about it, and I _think_ there are alot of member's on here that would like to learn about it, and espicaially watch Zeitgeist - which if anyone has a spare 2 hours should defo watch.


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## RandomlySet

lol at ant. opens up your eyes hey :thumb:


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## kh904

ant_s said:


> Damn you! After the Bin Laden thread, I had a few hours yesterday so started googling things you, Mat and Cuey mentioned and now I hate the world, hate money and hate the americans!
> 
> Was going to start a thread about all this money goings-on, as alot of people have no idea about it, and I _think_ there are alot of member's on here that would like to learn about it, and espicaially watch Zeitgeist - which if anyone has a spare 2 hours should defo watch.


Don't add to hate, as Dr. Martin Luther King once noted, 
"I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that."

Understand the system and then you can decipher that what the media & their experts tell you about the economy is irrelevant propaganda

As i understand, Libya's national bank is owned by the public, but apparently a central bank was being set up just prior to military action by the UK & US. Libya is economically self-sufficient & isn't under the IMF umbrella, but my guess that it will be under private control


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## RandomlySet

what we need is the Venus Project 

unfortunately there's too many scummers and bone idle people in the world to make it work


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## kh904

There are many American's who are actually know their stuff and are against it, so don't generalize all American's. We in the UK are no different.

I wish Ron Paul would become US President, he makes soooooo much sense & has the balls to stand by what he says! Many of the worlds problems would dramatically be much improved!


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## ant_s

By the sounds of it though if Ron Paul got into any power he would "mysteriously" (sp) die in some freak accident.


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## kh904

ant_s said:


> By the sounds of it thought if Ron Paul got into any power he would "misteriously" (sp) die in some freak accident.


Yes like Lincoln & Kennedy who started to print their own interest-free currency


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## kh904

God this guy is good!!!


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## ant_s

Post 6, video 2, from 8:30 onwards. How good is it to hear another "crackpot" talk about the bull that some Governments spirt out lol.


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## kh904

kh904 said:


> Understand the system and then you can decipher that what the media & their experts tell you about the economy is irrelevant propaganda


I wanted to expand this, nearly all politicians & so-called 'economic experts' that are in the media have no idea on the banking & money system & their policies only delay & add to the problem!.

They fight the problem of inflation & debt with........more debt!


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## The Cueball

I think we suffer from a good proportion of people either not caring about it, or having no clue about it...

Even when you do raise the issue, some people still can't quite understand the fact that money doesn't exist until you get into debt...

There is also the people that have been taught that the central bank is a required method of monetary control and free banking could never work...

We will never, ever get rid of this stupid method of controlling the money supply, and when people are making millions from war and despair, why would we...

:thumb:


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## kh904

The Cueball said:


> We will never, ever get rid of this stupid method of controlling the money supply, and when people are making millions from war and despair, why would we...
> 
> :thumb:


Yes it's money making, but 'we' the public don't get that money! 
It may be good for GDP, but that is a useless statistic. GDP doesn't measure the 'quality' of life or standard of living.

If i gave you £10, and you spent that £10 to Mat, and Mat gave it to me, that would be good for GDP, but how has anyone benefited?

Governments put so much importance on this stastitic like it's the be all or end all!


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## The Cueball

kh904 said:


> Yes it's money making, but 'we' the public don't get that money!
> It may be good for GDP, but that is a useless statistic. GDP doesn't measure the 'quality' of life or standard of living.
> 
> If i gave you £10, and you spent that £10 to Mat, and Mat gave it to me, that would be good for GDP, but how has anyone benefited?
> 
> Governments put so much importance on this stastitic like it's the be all or end all!


This is true, but "we" have to pay for it all! :lol:

The government use GDP to mislead and confuse people to keep everyone from looking at the real issues and asking the right questions...

We still have idiots in this country blaming the commercial banks for the latest crises, if people would just shut up, and actually look at the real causes and issues then we would be far better off....

I used to try and help these people by explaining what is really going on, but now I just look at them, and say "you obviously have no clue, I'm not wasting my time"...

It's easier to control massive crowds and the bigger the lie, the better it works...we are becoming a nation of morons who care more about Zcelebs on ice, in a jungle or using fake tan and shouting slogans than we are about actually moving the country forward and making a better life for all...

Freedom and knowledge...everyone is having theirs reduced everyday and are too blind to see it...

:thumb:


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## kh904

The Cueball said:


> It's easier to control massive crowds and the bigger the lie, the better it works...we are becoming a nation of morons who care more about Zcelebs on ice, in a jungle or using fake tan and shouting slogans than we are about actually moving the country forward and making a better life for all...
> 
> Freedom and knowledge...everyone is having theirs reduced everyday and are too blind to see it...
> 
> :thumb:


So true, media is full of 'so-called' celebs famous for no talent whatsoever. What's scary is the new generation 'aspiring' to be like them - become a WAG for eg, when the real issues are buried.

I've made a conscious effort not to read the 'Red top' papers, not to blindly accept what's in the news as the truth & dramatically reduce the amount of trash TV i watch and spend my time learning somethng that's more useful & interesting.
I'm surprised on the effects it has had on me. I can detach myself from a situation, step back and analyse what's happening/happend more critically


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## kh904

The Cueball said:


> I used to try and help these people by explaining what is really going on, but now I just look at them, and say "you obviously have no clue, I'm not wasting my time"...
> 
> Freedom and knowledge...everyone is having theirs reduced everyday and are too blind to see it...
> 
> :thumb:


I understand your frustration but I wouldn't give up, i think more and more of your average person is starting to look into it as they are seeing & feeling the effects of the state of the economy.
Unfortunately it's going to get a lot worse!
I feel people are starting to think that the system isn't quite right but not quite sure why because of the mainstream media PR confusing the public.

Has the general public ever thought why we've 'borrowed' millions of £'s, & from who, to bail out the banks whom created the problems in the first place. All the media & politicians are saying that it's the US housing bubble that's burst but have actually looked at the system itself!

Should have let the banks go bust (but protect people's savings)

The Icelandic government refused a 'bailout' from the IMF/Euro bank (thank god for them), and told the banks to deal with it as they caused it.

I don't know how many people in the UK have had their homes repossessed due to the banking crisis, but do you know how many in Iceland......

ZERO! Their government protected the people!

Anyway i feel some people on this board have at least started to take an interest and look into this themselves, so if one person has benefited then i feel that i've helped in some little way.
Those people will hopefully pass on what they've found out!


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## The Cueball

Yeah, I think the banks should have been allowed to fail, just like any other business....

It worries me that there is a massive amount of people who don't care about it...but each to their own I guess....

:thumb:


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## Knight Rider

Been reading the threads with interest lads.

Cue, out of interest, what could we, as individuals / or goups do?, in your opinion?

Or would it be more changing your mindset?

Cheers


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## The Cueball

Knight Rider said:


> Been reading the threads with interest lads.
> 
> Cue, out of interest, what could we, as individuals / or goups do?, in your opinion?
> 
> Or would it be more changing your mindset?
> 
> Cheers


Let me just start this post with a little history lesson for those who do not know how we are in this position:

The first, the original central bank, was the Bank of England, set up in 1694, and it it this model that has been copied by every central bank in the world.

Why was it set up, very simple - to fund a war with France....

Our whole lives, or whole world of debt and corruption was started because of a war...something which continues to this day, war is a massive money machine....

OK, so what can be done, sorry, what should be done...

Again, this is pretty simple, as it used to be the way the banks functioned.... they should only be allowed to create money based on the physical reserves that that have - call it gold, silver, glass...whatever, but the normal is gold - i.e. "the gold standard"

At the moment, everyone in the world works with "fiat money", i.e. let it be so... in others words there is nothing to back it up....nothing what so ever, which allows the central bank to create as much money as they need...sorry, as we need... for wars, to give to other countries, and for our use...notice how we are last...

There is, imo, absolutely no way of recovering from this mess we are, simply because there is not enough money to do it and the people in power would never allow it...

We would need to go bank to either the governments making their own money, and passing it on without interest, or returning to the gold standard, which would limit the amount of money out there...

Today, the "reserves" that banks rely on to create new money has no intrinsic value whatsoever. In other words, where once a bank would issue paper money equal to ten times the amount of gold or silver coin they held in their vaults; today there isn't a single ounce of gold or silver backing. Today, our paper money is created using nothing but paper (and account entries) as reserves! There is no real money anywhere...only paper and computer entries backed by absolutely nothing. Even worse (yes, there is a "worse") every pound/euro/dollar in circulation is inextricably tied to debt.

*What we're forced to use today is WORSE than fiat money, it is debt money.*

That last sentence is the real kicker. Our entire monetary system, as it now stands, is based on nothing but debt. Every physical bit of money in existence (as well as every account entry) came into existence as a loan to somebody. So long as our entire money supply is made up of this debt money, the bankers are guaranteed to earn interest on every single bit of money, every moment it exists.

It also means our debt is inescapable. To pay off every loan would reduce our money supply to zero…an absolute impossibility.

Robert Hemphill was the Credit Manager of the Federal Reserve Bank in Atlanta. In the foreword to a book by Irving Fisher, entitled 100% Money, Hemphill said this:



> "If all the bank loans were paid, no one could have a bank deposit, and there would not be a dollar of coin or currency in circulation. This is a staggering thought. We are completely dependent on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash, or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless situation is almost incredible-but there it is."


So the bankers not only profit from this debt money system, they've structured their business in such a way that we (operating within the rules of the system) can never escape it. Who in their right mind would hand over this kind of power and control to an unelected group of financial elites?

It's nothing short of economic slavery. And it's important to remember, we're in this mess not just because of the "unscrupulous but highly intelligent" individuals who conspired to gain control of our nation's money supply, but also because of our elected officials who handed it over and continue to support (and benefit from) the arrangement.

Or, if you prefer - We're all f***d

:thumb:


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## Shug

We were at war with france in 1964? Christ, no wonder they're so snotty to us....


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## The Cueball

Shug said:


> We were at war with france in 1964? Christ, no wonder they're so snotty to us....


Yeah, pick out the one typo to comment on...

You have just proved my point actually...

Thanks, I have now corrected it...

:thumb:


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## justina3

on the topic of debt did anyone catch the alan sugar show about the football clubs in the country good show it was the figures the clubs are in debt was just insane


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## kh904

The US war of indepenance from the British was mainly down to a central bank/King of England forcing the American's to borrow money from England at interest!

But overtime the UK or should i say UK central bank has taken over and controls the U.S.A. despite was we are told that we are America's poodle.


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## Knight Rider

Thanks Cue, loved it.

Q. What can we do ?
A. We're all f***ed! 

:lol::lol:

On a serious note though, thanks for the more in depth, but laymens explanation of the situation, :thumb:


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## kh904

Knight Rider said:


> Thanks Cue, loved it.
> 
> Q. What can we do ?
> A. We're all f***ed!
> 
> :lol::lol:
> 
> On a serious note though, thanks for the more in depth, but laymens explanation of the situation, :thumb:


I have to actually have to disagree with Cueball!

Congressman Ron Paul is a great hope! He has very very good policies, but whether he would win & make the Presidency alive is another question!
If he ever became President the world would be a lot better, in fact i think he would be one of the greatest Presidents in US history.

I wish he was British and run for Prime Minister! He's probably one of the only politicians i trust & is capable.

I shall post some of his videos & tv candidate debates later!


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## Shug

The Cueball said:


> Yeah, pick out the one typo to comment on...
> 
> You have just proved my point actually...
> 
> Thanks, I have now corrected it...
> 
> :thumb:


I do what I can.


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## The Cueball

kh904 said:


> I have to actually have to disagree with Cueball!
> 
> Congressman Ron Paul is a great hope! He has very very good policies, but whether he would win & make the Presidency alive is another question!
> If he ever became President the world would be a lot betterm in fact i think he would be one of the greatest Presidents in US history.
> 
> I wish he was British and run for Prime Minister! He's probably one of the only politicians i trust & is capable.
> 
> I shall post some of his videos & tv candidate debates later!


a) He will never win.

b) He will never win.

c) He will never win.

and if he ever did, there would be another execution...how many previous presidents have spoken out about central banks, and how many of them have been killed by one person, and one person alone!?!!? :wall::wall:

Also, for every 1 Ron Paul...there are millions of people that just don't care..... it's the sad fact of modern life...as long as they have their media bulls**t to tell them everything is bad and wrong in the world...this sort of thing doesn't get a look in!

:thumb:



Shug said:


> I do what I can.


I know.... you are some man!



:thumb:


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## kh904

The Cueball said:


> a) He will never win.
> 
> b) He will never win.
> 
> c) He will never win.
> 
> and if he ever did, there would be another execution...how many previous presidents have spoken out about central banks, and how many of them have been killed by one person, and one person alone!?!!? :wall::wall:
> 
> Also, for every 1 Ron Paul...there are millions of people that just don't care..... it's the sad fact of modern life...as long as they have their media bulls**t to tell them everything is bad and wrong in the world...this sort of thing doesn't get a look in!
> 
> :thumb:


On your first point unfortunately you may be right, but he's been Texas congressman for 10 years & has consistantly called out the government (whether Democrat or Republican) & the Fed Reserve (made them look like idiots) and he's getting more and more support.

Even mainstream tv hosts are starting to agree with him dispite media attacks towing the propaganda line.


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## The Cueball

kh904 said:


> On your first point unfortunately you may be right, but he's been Texas congressman for 10 years & has consistantly called out the government (whether Democrat or Republican) & the Fed Reserve (made them look like idiots) and he's getting more and more support.
> 
> Even mainstream tv hosts are starting to agree with him dispite media attacks towing the propaganda line.


Yeah, I have seen him in action..very good, well spoken, remains calm...

He has no chance! :lol:

I really hope I am wrong mind you......

:thumb:


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## RandomlySet

I'll have to catch up on this later this evening


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## kh904

Just a curious question to all members, there's been 400+ views so far, has anyone found this interesting & looked further into this? Or at least watched the clips posted (i know there's a few lol)?
Do you understand the system or still confused/don't quite understand it for whatever reason?

I know a few members have looked further and have learned something new as myself, Cueball, Mat & Ant have.

This is just out of personal interest!


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## kh904

A politician i can trust & respect!


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## RandomlySet

great few posts Cuey....

Slightly off topic, I play pool in a League for the local Labour Club. In no way am I linked to them, or even vote, I just know a lot of the guys who play there (a lot of who also do not vote)... 

One guy asked who I was voting for, and I told him I don't and that I have my reasons, and politics/statutes are all BS. he started arguing etc, and I mentioned we should be taught about it in school. His response was that we should look into it ourselves, as that is how he got "into" politics...

As always, I have an answer to everything, and my reply was "we SHOULD be taught about politics/laws in school from age 5. afterall, how are we supposed to follow "the rules of life" if we are not taught them. I mean, if you want to play football, you have to learn the rules first".... He soon shut up 

Then Central Banking system is the same, we should be taught more about how society works. But hey, that will NEVER happen. I don't believe that the most "advanced/biggest" countries have the worst education test rest results compared to those that may not be considered to be "as big".


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## kh904

Another great interview:






The debate that earned my respect:


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## kh904

Everyone should watch this one regarding the economy:


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## ant_s

Thread dig up I know but since these threads started popping up I've been doing loads of reading into it, and hope by reviving the thread hopefully a few more people may look into it lol


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## The Cueball

ant_s said:


> Thread dig up I know but since these threads started popping up I've been doing loads of reading into it, and hope by reviving the thread hopefully a few more people may look into it lol


And what are you getting from your digging?!?!

Are you still in the shocked phase or moved onto the anger and disbelief bit yet!!?!? :lol:

Do you think that I, and a few others who always seem to pop up on the same threads  are nutters and making things up?!?!?!?!

:thumb:


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## ant_s

My digging has found more and more compete rubbish that I cannot believe happens, but makes alot of sense.

I'm now at the stage where I know about it, but jsut think we're all stuck like it until more people know about it, thats why I bumped the thread lol.

Although saying that, trying to tell some people about it, namily my gf is a complete nightmare, and she won't believe it at all lol. In her eye's i'm now a nutter (well more than before) and have to much time on my hands lol, although my dad's very interested in it all lol.


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## RandomlySet

Mate, you can't force anyone to look into this, or believe what you believe. I was watching the Zeitgeist movies the other day when SWMBO asked what it was and said "I suppose you'll make me watch that then". I said "of course not, but it's up to you. If you're interested, then great"

Also, you ain't gonna learn everything straight away. I started looking into all this about 3-4 years ago, and probably took about 12-18 months to digest most of the stuff I know.... Since then it's all been topping up on info, looking into more stuff etc.... Plus I don't go looking as much as I used to, but I like to know that now I know my rights, should the occassion come


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## kh904

I'd thought that i'd up this post as it's very relevant with the current financial crisis in the Euro zone & the US.

It now seems that Greece will be bailed out gain & there will be new powers for 'financial stability'. 
The US has less than 2 weeks to sort there's out or they will be declared bankrupt (well they are bankrupt and have been for many years)!

I and some others here have previously said that it's inevitable there will be another financial crisis, bank bailouts don't fix the problems, just delay them & make them worse. Greece WILL default again and will have to sell-off it's national assets/privatise it's public services! Same with any other country that will be bailed out!

So the world isn't controlled & owned by a few elite banking families? I guess the conspiracy nutters are on a loss on this one 

Funnily enough though, more and more regular people in the street and the media are starting to agree that something isn't right & it doesn't make sense!

One world government & one world currency coming soon........ :devil:


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## The Cueball

have you seen Ron Pauls latest comments on the US problem....

he is making a lot of people squirm...and even more sit up and notice!!

:thumb:


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## kh904

No Cuey i haven't heard it yet. Have you got a link?


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## The Cueball

this is just one..

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=GB#/watch?v=xqfm0zrRs9Q

:thumb:


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## kh904

The Cueball said:


> this is just one..
> 
> http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=GB#/watch?v=xqfm0zrRs9Q
> 
> :thumb:


Hi, that link isn't working


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## ant_s

Where has the deadline of 2 weeks come from for the US? 

But very true about countries not being safe after they have been bailed out, it just delay's it. Greece will never be safe now, and due to the EU and the Euro alot of countries will suffer due to it.

The Dollar is soon going to be wiped out and the Euro will be worthless just as quick, so the one currency throughout the world sounds asthough it's not that far from happening.


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## The Cueball

kh904 said:


> Hi, that link isn't working


it's this flecking iPad, works fine on mine!  :wall:

it's on you tube, Ron Paul speech on debt ceiling...

stupid apple products...

:thumb:


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## kh904

ant_s said:


> Where has the deadline of 2 weeks come from for the US?
> 
> But very true about countries not being safe after they have been bailed out, it just delay's it. Greece will never be safe now, and due to the EU and the Euro alot of countries will suffer due to it.
> 
> The Dollar is soon going to be wiped out and the Euro will be worthless just as quick, so the one currency throughout the world sounds asthough it's not that far from happening.


IIRC I think it was reported in the media that they will run out of 'money' in under 2 weeks, and can no longer afford to service it's national debt (the interest it owes is now too much).


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## kh904

Well well, a shocking admission from a trader who seems to agree with what Cueball etc & i have been saying (Governments don't rule, Banks do).
I read a small article in The Sun who edited the interview & didn't tell the important bits of what he said.
Here's the interview:






Any political agreement that's suggested & likely to be agreed will NOT solve the financial problem causes. It may help in the short term, but it's just delaying the inevitable.
Even the market is beginning to realise that it's all rhetoric.


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## The Cueball

Anyone, anywhere that thinks bailouts and getting into more debt will help us all out needs shot... there is no way on earth this could help...

How does getting into more debt, save us from debt... honestly...some real bell-ends in politics and even bigger idiots that believe the rubbish and only care about what's on TV and changes to facebook....

:wall::wall::wall:


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## kh904

The Cueball said:


> Anyone, anywhere that thinks bailouts and getting into more debt will help us all out needs shot... there is no way on earth this could help...
> 
> How does getting into more debt, save us from debt... honestly...some real bell-ends in politics and even bigger idiots that believe the rubbish and only care about what's on TV and changes to facebook....
> 
> :wall::wall::wall:


lol i agree! But I do think more & more regular people are figuring it out as the wider population, not just this country but globally, are now more heavily affected either by losing jobs, price rises, inflation/savings hit hard, bank bailouts, bankers bonuses etc etc.

I know most people don't really trust politicians at the best of times, but many people can see what whatever they say or do regarding the economy is nonsense (i won't swear) lol

P.S.
Welcome back


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## Knight Rider

So what could be done to help, either by the half-wits that "run" the country , or by ourselves?

It is getting very worrying at the moment, ourselves, we are reasonably comfortable at the moment, no big luxuries or holidays etc, but are alive, healthy and have a roof over our heads....but I do know people that are starting to struggle now, and i'm guessing it will only get worse!

I'd like to know what I/all of us can do to help defend ourselves for the future........unless we are well past that now!?


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## justina3

Knight Rider said:


> So what could be done to help, either by the half-wits that "run" the country , or by ourselves?
> 
> It is getting very worrying at the moment, ourselves, we are reasonably comfortable at the moment, no big luxuries or holidays etc, but are alive, healthy and have a roof over our heads....but I do know people that are starting to struggle now, and i'm guessing it will only get worse!
> 
> I'd like to know what I/all of us can do to help defend ourselves for the future........unless we are well past that now!?


listen to our parents or grandparents the more i think about the old speeches they used to give me the more they make sense now.


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## kh904

Knight Rider said:


> So what could be done to help, either by the half-wits that "run" the country , or by ourselves?
> 
> It is getting very worrying at the moment, ourselves, we are reasonably comfortable at the moment, no big luxuries or holidays etc, but are alive, healthy and have a roof over our heads....but I do know people that are starting to struggle now, and i'm guessing it will only get worse!
> 
> I'd like to know what I/all of us can do to help defend ourselves for the future........unless we are well past that now!?


Well the half-wits are more clever than we give credit for in some cases. There are some that have special interests on the outcome of certain policies that are not necessarily in the peoples interests.
The guy from the US Government (sorry i can't remember his name), who bailed out Goldman Sachs gets a job there after he leaves the government job  , same goes for others who take up jobs (such as military/defense companies) after they've done deals with them when they are in Government.

Some are merely puppets who take advice from certain people but end up being the fall guy against any public backlash.

What to do about it? Wow that's a tough one, but for starters, each individual has to take personal responsibility for their own actions, and stop looking to the Government to do everything for us & give us entitlements/benefits etc for every little thing, so we are less reliant on them & take back the power from the Government.
Once you rely on someone, you become dependant on them, then comfortable, then controlled over time, then you can be more easily manipulated by your controllers.
It's not a new psychological technique, it's been know for ages (abusive partners use this well), governments abuse this technique that why they give benefits, tax credits etc to most people when not really needed.

Stop buying trivial things on credit, be patient & save for it. Everytime you take out credit, the credit bubble increases so adding to the problem down the line. Really this should include mortgages but i know this isn't practically realistic for most people etc

It's a difficult one, and too long to explain at this moment but i'll PM you for some good links if you don't mind.

PS. Like yourself, i have saved up a looooot for a good deposit on a house so at the moment i have a good cushion if there's an emergency, but i'm seriously looking to get rid of my money in some safe assets.


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## JJ_

kh904 lets lighten the mood and get a car you have detailed all I ever see is you putting up this stuff. 

Lets see your malaysian metal !!!!!


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## kh904

JJ_ said:


> kh904 lets lighten the mood and get a car you have detailed all I ever see is you putting up this stuff.
> 
> Lets see your malaysian metal !!!!!


lol, well this is the off-topic section after all  
I never seem to bothered to take pics when i detail, i think i'll get even more strange looks from neighbours & passers by as i'm on a very busy road, lol

Also I haven't had a chance to detail the coupe at the moment as it needs to go to the garage for some work done! It's been an expensive month all down to the car!

I'm not gonna tell people good news it there isn't any, just sharing info people would find enlightening 
IMO i find it's best to be honest & true (well in my opinion what's truth, other may disagree) even if it hurts in the short term, for long term benefit!


----------



## PaulN

kh904 said:


> Just a curious question to all members, there's been 400+ views so far, has anyone found this interesting & looked further into this? Or at least watched the clips posted (i know there's a few lol)?
> Do you understand the system or still confused/don't quite understand it for whatever reason?
> 
> I know a few members have looked further and have learned something new as myself, Cueball, Mat & Ant have.
> 
> This is just out of personal interest!


More a plea to anyone who wants to take me on as a student.

I want to see how far the rabbit hole goes and could do with one of the already inlightened members who have posted up on this thread to get me started.

I know we are fecked, i see it everyday if not directly then indirectly and just want to be better informed.

So who will take me on?

Thanks

PaulN


----------



## kh904

PaulN said:


> More a plea to anyone who wants to take me on as a student.
> 
> I want to see how far the rabbit hole goes and could do with one of the already inlightened members who have posted up on this thread to get me started.
> 
> I know we are fecked, i see it everyday if not directly then indirectly and just want to be better informed.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> PaulN


First of all YOU are the student AND the teacher! 
Don't take what i and others have said as the truth, look into it yourself (you may come to a conclusion that i'm totally wrong). Sometimes you have to look for the answers from within but be careful that it's not you're ego & emotions talking which can be difficult!
I can point you in a number of directions for an overall introduction, and you'll quickly find yourself down many avenues (there's a lot of crap to sift through though with their own agenda's).

I've never been as fascinated with economic, politics, religion, science & history than now!!!! If only i knew this stuff when i was in secondary school, class discussions would be interesting :lol:

I'll send you some good links as a starting point too if you want :thumb:


----------



## JJ_

kh904 said:


> lol, well this is the off-topic section after all
> I never seem to bothered to take pics when i detail, i think i'll get even more strange looks from neighbours & passers by as i'm on a very busy road, lol
> 
> Also I haven't had a chance to detail the coupe at the moment as it needs to go to the garage for some work done! It's been an expensive month all down to the car!
> 
> I'm not gonna tell people good news it there isn't any, just sharing info people would find enlightening
> IMO i find it's best to be honest & true (well in my opinion what's truth, other may disagree) even if it hurts in the short term, for long term benefit!


I know it might take your mind off this "stuff" for a bit :thumb: just get out and wax the car, take a load off pop a beer. :buffer:


----------



## PaulN

kh904 said:


> First of all YOU are the student AND the teacher!
> Don't take what i and others have said as the truth, look into it yourself (you may come to a conclusion that i'm totally wrong). Sometimes you have to look for the answers from within but be careful that it's not you're ego & emotions talking which can be difficult!
> I can point you in a number of directions for an overall introduction, and you'll quickly find yourself down many avenues (there's a lot of crap to sift through though with their own agenda's).
> 
> I've never been as fascinated with economic, politics, religion, science & history than now!!!! If only i knew this stuff when i was in secondary school, class discussions would be interesting :lol:
> 
> I'll send you some good links as a starting point too if you want :thumb:


Im in, Be gentle though and patient Ill start slow then grow in speed :newbie:


----------



## The Cueball

Knight Rider said:


> So what could be done to help, either by the half-wits that "run" the country , or by ourselves?
> 
> It is getting very worrying at the moment, ourselves, we are reasonably comfortable at the moment, no big luxuries or holidays etc, but are alive, healthy and have a roof over our heads....but I do know people that are starting to struggle now, and i'm guessing it will only get worse!
> 
> I'd like to know what I/all of us can do to help defend ourselves for the future........unless we are well past that now!?


That's the big question though...and not one with an easy answer...are we too far down the road to recover...are we all doomed to live in a debt society forever...I say yes

Money can't be made without some form of debt as things stand...this is never going to change because we don't control it, neither does any government... not a dig at you here, but if people can't understand that that control of money is in the hands of PRIVATE people...then the rest is lost...

Anyway....there are the "big things" that you can do little about... i.e. taxes... income tax, VAT, NI, PAYE...whatever... these are needed for good things like services, and bad things like war, politicians 3rd houses and the poor darling that can't be bothered to work, the baby factories, not to mention all the money we sent to countries that can't quite mange to feed their own people while making weapons or going into space... 

In theory, our taxes etc would reduce if we stopped taking on debt for other countries (remember, when we "give" someone 180 million to help them out, "we" the public, are borrowing that, with interest from the people who actually make the money..."we" don't actually have that money lying about...so we get into debt as a county to help others out...)

So, if you stopped that plus,

If every lazy f***r out there got a job, and left the benefit system as it was intended - a short, helpful step back to recovery, not a career goal.

If we stopped going to war with people, that would save us money.

Etc etc etc...

If we got rid of half the MP's, with their expenses and quangos etc...or whatever they are called this week... then there would be less of a debt growing to service with our taxes...

Still with me?!?!

Let's pretend all that did happen, and your PAYE % could fall on all earnings, that would put money in YOUR pocket, to spend on what you wanted... you would go out and enjoy goods and services in many different places, more business, means more tax, and more people to work in them.... so more jobs are created...

That is a perfect little world though...and it isn't going to happen, so let's land with a bump back to reality shall we?!?!

On the big things all you can really do is support people who do not want war, pay for the lazy, get us into debt, and hope they get into "power" and live long enough to change things....

On a more personal note, You can protect yourself by not getting into unmanageable debt (credit and debt is actually good for business and the economy, if it's at a decent level), try and save a little bit of money as a back-up, look for value in what you buy, and keep your head down and hope your company has decent people running it, or if you own your own place - treat your customer fair and hope they return.

For our economy to be kick-started, the consumer (i.e. you and me) need to have money in our pocket... but the government can't take the chance that, if we got more money, we would save it, so it's forcing their revenue on us through taxes and VAT...they don't trust us to go out and spend on having fun, so they rip it off us at source and protect their interest payments back to the select few...

No money in our pocket means we CAN'T spend it, so we are being forced down a negative route....

OK, so that went on for a little longer than I had thought, but I hoped it helped...sorry


----------



## The Cueball

PaulN said:


> More a plea to anyone who wants to take me on as a student.
> 
> I want to see how far the rabbit hole goes and could do with one of the already inlightened members who have posted up on this thread to get me started.
> 
> I know we are fecked, i see it everyday if not directly then indirectly and just want to be better informed.
> 
> So who will take me on?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> PaulN


Start with the money as debt film in this thread.... very good information in that.

Look up Ron Paul and listen to what he is saying....

Research yourself and don't be afraid to ask questions, or dig deeper...

Look at the 2 John O'Farrell books: Impartial History of Britain and History of modern Britain... very good, factual info wrapped around humour

:thumb:


----------



## Knight Rider

Thanks KH and Cue.

As you may know, I have been looking into a lot lately and have changed the way we do our day-to-day living a massive amount from say, 14 years ago. Back then, we would get what we want on credit, pay for it on the weekly etc (we were only nippers then!)

Fast forward to the last say 7 years, (we had a deposit on our house by then, bit of a boom etc, so not the best time to buy) so we still have a large mortgage on a 2 bed semi. 
However, we do everything soo much differently.
We went on holiday for the first time in a few years this year. We saved for a few months and spent a week in Wales, mainly walking, and meals out at night, we had a caravan, so even that was quite cheap. Money still going into the country, but not as we would have done many years ago, where we "may" have got a loan of 3k to go on a 2 week greek hols, then spend 2 years paying it off.
I wanted a second car, for the dogs, and as i'm starting a little side line business where I need to shift stuff (Furniture related, not detailing lol) So, again, didn't waste money on pubs for a few months, got enough money together for a diesel estate. Now I'm also using that to earn a few bob, which then pays for the tax , insurance, mot etc (and a bit more detailing gear as I have 2 cars)
We had never had savings, but now, when our boiler gives up, we have some money put aside to pay for that. I wanted an RC Nitro car as mine blew up, sold a few things I don't use anymore, 2 weeks later, had what I wanted.

Just a couple of things we do differently, but that show that by waiting a little bit, we can still have what we want (to a degree) still put money back into the economy, but without getting into debt (bar mortgage)

I also want to start up a business (very early days, only just put my little toe in the water as far as thats concerned)

Even though we are doing all we can, I do obviously have massive concerns, one of those is for the massive amount of scum bagging scroungers making this place worse and the amount of money wasted on them. Also that although I do everything I can, and help other people change their ways if possible, it will only take a couple of runs of bad luck for it all to blow up in my face :lol:

That, and the global economy as it is.


----------



## 335dAND110XS

Ignore immigrants and dole spongers. The real money sponges are the banks dodging tax, big corporates avoiding paying their way, PFIs locking government into mentally stupid contracts, etc. It's the rich that are rinsing the country, not the poor.

We all like to think we are clever than anyone else and we all make choices - but really it's out of our hands. Just roll with the punches and do the best you can.

*We have always avoided following the herd *- we have rented since starting work (about 14 years ago) despite easily being able to afford a gaff - the reason? The government controls the population with interest rates. Mortgage companies make insane profits on interest. We'd rather rent sensible places (and use them as an office) and save then buy outright than hand £1000s to faceless banks. We hope to buy outright in a few years.

*We avoid any debt *(most forget mortgages are a MASSIVE debt) at all costs having been burnt in the past. Many will borrow money without a second thought.

*We didn't take a holiday this year *- business dipped a bit and an easy saving is a holiday. Living in Cornwall does soften the blow and now business is back up, we'll have a treat next year. Most take a big holiday regardless of how well work is going.

So match your spending and saving to your income, save and save some more and do NOT get into debt. Easier said than done but for all those in debt - did you really need to borrow that money for a newer car, bigger TV, house improvements, new sofa, whatever? Old fashioned spending/saving was so much more sensible yet we seem to have forgotten how to do it.


----------



## The Cueball

^^ I don't disagree about the corporate side, but it is, for the most part a legal thing to do, remove the loop holes, don't blame the people smart enough to you them... :thumb:

:thumb:

@knight, sounds like you have a decent plan...sounds like it's working for you too... 

:thumb:


----------



## kh904

The Cueball said:


> Start with the money as debt film in this thread.... very good information in that.
> 
> Look up Ron Paul and listen to what he is saying....
> 
> Research yourself and don't be afraid to ask questions, or dig deeper...
> 
> Look at the 2 John O'Farrell books: Impartial History of Britain and History of modern Britain... very good, factual info wrapped around humour
> 
> :thumb:


Yep, the video's at the beginning of this thread are a good place to start, but make some time available because some are quite long and there's a lot of info for your head to get around, although the Money is Debt & David Icke clips are easy to understand for the average person


----------



## The Cueball

oh my f j c

£75bn more debt, in order to help us all out of debt.....

these people are mental......just mental....

:wall::wall::wall:


----------



## vickky453

335dAND110XS said:


> *We didn't take a holiday this year *- business dipped a bit and an easy saving is a holiday. Living in Cornwall does soften the blow and now business is back up, we'll have a treat next year. Most take a big holiday regardless of how well work is going.


If I loved in Cornwall, I'd never be off my holidays !


----------



## Derbyshire-stig

The Cueball said:


> oh my f j c
> 
> £75bn more debt, in order to help us all out of debt.....
> 
> these people are mental......just mental....
> 
> :wall::wall::wall:


thank god it`s not just me that thinks it then, I mentioned this today and got slated


----------



## kh904

Derbyshire-stig said:


> thank god it`s not just me that thinks it then, I mentioned this today and got slated


I agree, if we can't afford to pay back the current debt, what's going to be different that we will be able to payback the old debt and this new one in the future - if we don't have the money to pay it now, we still won't have it to pay it back in the future :wall:

Also this extr £75bn is going straight into the banks, SUPPOSEDLY for them to loan out! Why not just give the poor (or the working people) a basic rate tax cut, or cut VAT back to 17.50%. At least that way the PEOPLE can decide where the money goes to, not the banks.

And if the banks are getting the £75bn to give out new loans to people & businesses, what's really changed, the money will still have to be paid back in the future & taking us to a position that's worse - there will be less money in the economy because of the interest paid to the banks!!!!:devil:

Sounds like loan sharks with better PR to me!


----------



## The Cueball

Derbyshire-stig said:


> thank god it`s not just me that thinks it then, I mentioned this today and got slated


email these idiots a link to this thread and try and teach them something useful! :lol:

:thumb:


----------



## The Cueball

kh904 said:


> I agree, if we can't afford to pay back the current debt, what's going to be different that we will be able to payback the old debt and this new one in the future - if we don't have the money to pay it now, we still won't have it to pay it back in the future :wall:
> 
> Also this extr £75bn is going straight into the banks, SUPPOSEDLY for them to loan out! Why not just give the poor (or the working people) a basic rate tax cut, or cut VAT back to 17.50%. At least that way the PEOPLE can decide where the money goes to, not the banks.
> 
> And if the banks are getting the £75bn to give out new loans to people & businesses, what's really changed, the money will still have to be paid back in the future & taking us to a position that's worse - there will be less money in the economy because of the interest paid to the banks!!!!:devil:
> 
> Sounds like loan sharks with better PR to me!


They have done exactly as I was talking about in my previous posts......they claim they are helping out...but just who are they actually helping?!?!

There is still no extra money going into the pockets of the consumers!!!!!!

What we do have though is another shed load of debt (at interest) for us to pay off........

It's almost like the old consolidation loan, and a bit for yourself routine people get drawn into eh....:wall::wall::wall:

You simply cannot, in any way, get out of debt and despair by getting into more debt.....and by given this debt money to companies out to make a profit!!

And, another thing....the clown in the blue tie says that we all must be cheery, have spirit and fight...then the monkey from the bank is spouting doom and tragedy...it's going to go on forever, it the worst ever economic crisis....WTF..... at least talk to each other and sing from the same hymn sheet....


----------



## DampDog

The Cueball said:


> They have done exactly as I was talking about in my previous posts......they claim they are helping out...but just who are they actually helping?!?!
> 
> There is still no extra money going into the pockets of the consumers!!!!!!


Spot on, where the **** is all this money going? £75,000,000,000.. simply being poured into the leaky pot. No one has said where this money is going or how it's going to be allocated.

That money would be better off renewing the NHS, it would create jobs and expertise, create something lasting that would be up to the job of treating the epidemic of fatties heading it's way. If you're going to spend obscene amounts of money at least spend it where it can be seen, and not as a string of numbers on some fatcat traders fecking i-pad.

NHS isn't a particularly good example,but it's early and my brain cell hasn't warmed up yet.. Just something that can be seen and is tangible


----------



## [email protected]

So forgive me if im getting this wrong but Cameron says we all have to pay off our debts and merv king or whatever his name is gives 75bn to the banks to lend to people thus creating another debt that cameron says we must pay off, all this extra money put will surely lower the value of the pound too?

Or am i just thick being of low income, middle class and a married parent who pays his taxes.


----------



## The Cueball

DampDog said:


> Spot on, where the **** is all this money going? £75,000,000,000.. simply being poured into the leaky pot. No one has said where this money is going or how it's going to be allocated.
> 
> That money would be better off renewing the NHS, it would create jobs and expertise, create something lasting that would be up to the job of treating the epidemic of fatties heading it's way. If you're going to spend obscene amounts of money at least spend it where it can be seen, and not as a string of numbers on some fatcat traders fecking i-pad.
> 
> NHS isn't a particularly good example,but it's early and my brain cell hasn't warmed up yet.. Just something that can be seen and is tangible


NHS is a perfect example.... how many front line staff would that pay for... Police, Fire services...wow.....that money could make a real difference.....

Someone, somewhere in the UK is getting £75bn....is it going to help local people, on the ground pay for fuel, heating, clothes...not a f***g chance...but we'll need to pay it ALL bad....with interest!!!!

:wall:



[email protected] said:


> So forgive me if im getting this wrong but Cameron says we all have to pay off our debts and merv king or whatever his name is gives 75bn to the banks to lend to people thus creating another debt that cameron says we must pay off, all this extra money put will surely lower the value of the pound too?
> 
> Or am i just thick being of low income, middle class and a married parent who pays his taxes.


You are correct...but what has happened...and it's very sneaky is....instead of a personal debt to pay which you can control (to a certain extent)... i.e. a credit card.... we have now been lumped with a NATIONAL debt...which we pay through taxes etc...and we don't have a choice about...maybe that rate will go up in the next few months/years to help pay for all this...but we won't have a say...

Personal debt you control - bad 

National debt that will control you and your kids (and theirs too) - good 

:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:


----------



## Gruffs

So what i don't understand is this;

If the (privately owned) BOE can 'give' £75bn to the banks to loan out (at a higher interest rate than the borrow it at) haven't the BOE just devalued all the other debt the banks have with them?

Also, if they can just release £75bn, why can't they just release £1000000Tn and be done with all the debt at the level it is now and we'll have money left over in the loan to fix our infrastructure and fund our aquisition of countries with natural resources (google Afghanistan and Lithium - not such a worthless desert after all) and consolidate it all into one big loan that we pay of at a fixed monthly rate in small, easy installments over the next 1,000,000 years?


----------



## kh904

Gruffs said:


> So what i don't understand is this;
> 
> If the (privately owned) BOE can 'give' £75bn to the banks to loan out (at a higher interest rate than the borrow it at) haven't the BOE just devalued all the other debt the banks have with them?
> 
> Also, if they can just release £75bn, why can't they just release £1000000Tn and be done with all the debt at the level it is now and we'll have money left over in the loan to fix our infrastructure and fund our aquisition of countries with natural resources (google Afghanistan and Lithium - not such a worthless desert after all) and consolidate it all into one big loan that we pay of at a fixed monthly rate in small, easy installments over the next 1,000,000 years?


Yep, the debt does devalue along with the currency (we will get higher inflation) - so once again savers like myself who've worked hard and did the 'right thing' are being punished.

Yes the BoE is PRIVATELY OWNED, doesn't matter what you are told. Look up it's history, and iirc the fact the nominal shareholders names are kept secret by law. Anyone who reveals it can be punished as an act of treason from what i've read up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_England
http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2010/02/who-owns-bank-of-england.html
http://tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=203734

Yes i agree if they can release £75bn, they theoretically can do £100000tn, but remember this money still will have to be paid back at some point with interest. SO when this money is pumped into the system, inflation will happen (prices will go up), and over time this new 'money'/credit will be paid back meaning there's less money in the system but the prices will still be at the higher inflated price - SO we will be in a even worse position.

Wake up people - our generation along with the next few generations yet to come will be enslaved to the money masters!!!!! :devil:


----------



## Gruffs

If i were to make numbers up on a balance sheet, wouldn't i be commiting fraud?

Well TBH, I prefer being a slave to money than religion.

At least if times are hard, i can steal money.


----------



## DampDog

I don't really subscribe to the "money master" theory, but it is interesting.

Personally I think some of it's down to how the world now operates, everything happens in fractions of a second. Computers are set up with algorithms to search and react to changes in markets. Small "blips" in the markets trigger reactions, those reactions in turn trigger changes. It's world wide network, everything reacts to everything else. There is no slack anymore. When it was done by phone, fax, or telegram "blips" could go by unnoticed.

I think the financial institutions have created a monster that cannot be controlled or predicted. It's now more akin to a betting shop where traders bet on the changes. Problem is they can bet on things going "***'s-up" which is where people have abused and manipulated the system. The bottom line is the people controlling the money got greedy.

To the average working bloke like me (for working read unemployed) all the talk of "Quantitative easing" and billions of pounds being injected into the "system" means nothing, we'll never see a penny of it. I either need more money in my pocket or things being cheaper so I can buy more with less. And none of em have a clue how to make that happen.

Surely all this money being injected into the system would have been better spent building affordable homes, it would put home ownership within the reach of those it's now beyond, stimulate the building industry, creating jobs. Open up towns to industry creating new opportunities for samll business.


----------



## kh904

Gruffs said:


> If i were to make numbers up on a balance sheet, wouldn't i be commiting fraud?
> 
> Well TBH, I prefer being a slave to money than religion.


Yep it's fraud.

On the second point, is there a difference? IMO it's the same thing, just a means of control of the masses!


----------



## kh904

DampDog said:


> I don't really subscribe to the "money master" theory, but it is interesting.
> 
> Personally I think some of it's down to how the world now operates, everything happens in fractions of a second. Computers are set up with algorithms to search and react to changes in markets. Small "blips" in the markets trigger reactions, those reactions in turn trigger changes. It's world wide network, everything reacts to everything else. There is no slack anymore. When it was done by phone, fax, or telegram "blips" could go by unnoticed.


That's cool, your entitled not to believe the 'money master' theory, but if you look into a lot deeper it it's historically backed up & the same names keep on appearing. They are the ones who control the central banks, so what your saying on the second point about the computer programs etc is just a secondary effect/problem to the original.

The fact is privately owned central banks create credit out of nothing & lend it to the people charging interest, and the banks can create upto 9x the money in reserves in the form of new loans.

Nathan Mayer Rothschild makes his famous statement,

"I care not what puppet is placed upon the throne of England to rule the Empire on which the sun never sets. The man who controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire, and I control the British money supply."


----------



## Goldbug

The Cueball said:


> Anyone, anywhere that thinks bailouts and getting into more debt will help us all out needs shot... there is no way on earth this could help...
> 
> How does getting into more debt, save us from debt... honestly...some real bell-ends in politics and even bigger idiots that believe the rubbish and only care about what's on TV and changes to facebook....
> 
> :wall::wall::wall:


This will tip the country into recession becuase we know the QE caused inflation to rise 2%, jobs being lost, this has just poured petrol on the bonfire.

The elites are so out of touch with the man on the ground.:doublesho


----------



## Goldbug

We have this sky headline today;

http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16084419

"Fears Britain In 'Worst Ever' Economic Crisis"

All scary stuff !!! I'm Frightened Or am I ?

However, are they using this type of headline to inject fear into the system so no one questions their £75 billion handout to the bankers ?

Is it bonus season soon? That will be interesting.

They are devaluing the money in everyone's pocket and they have to justify it.

Thiis is akin to a fight against ecvonomic terrorism....tell the people we're in trouble and you can do what you like.

Or, should I really be scared.


----------



## The Cueball

RPP said:


> All scary stuff !!! I'm Frightened Or am I ?
> 
> However, are they using this type of headline to inject fear into the system so no one questions their £75 billion handout to the bankers ?
> 
> Thiis is akin to a fight against ecvonomic terrorism....tell the people we're in trouble and you can do what you like.
> 
> Or, should I really be scared.


This is my point about the media.....and to save me re-typing and stealing someone elses post:

What is the true definition of a terrorist:



-Mat- said:


> Another point to add is that some people don't seem to understand the definition of the word "terrorist".
> 
> Just an example here, but if I was to say to someone, "oh, I was speaking to a terrorist the other day about the Man City v Stoke game.... blah blah blah", I can 99.9% guarantee that the image that they have in their head is me talking to an Afghan/Muslim guy or similar stereotype (no racism meant there BTW).
> 
> However, let's look at the definition of "terrorism"
> 
> There is no universally agreed, legally binding, criminal law definition of terrorism.
> 
> Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for a religious, political or ideological goal, deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (civilians), and are committed by non-government agencies.
> 
> _Please accept my apologies for using Wiki as a source of reference lol_
> 
> The bit I have underlined always makes me chuckle.... Is whoever wrote this saying that our government CANNOT be a terrorist?
> 
> I think Dictionary.com gives a more accurate definition of the word.
> 
> Originally Posted by Dictionary.com
> ter·ror·ism [ter-uh-riz-uhm] Show IPA
> -noun
> 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
> 2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
> 3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.
> 
> In response to Cueballs question, "who are the terrorists", well, I have my own answers, but it's up to the individual to make up their own mind.
> 
> :thumb:


:thumb:


----------



## Gruffs

kh904 said:


> Yep it's fraud.
> 
> On the second point, is there a difference? IMO it's the same thing, just a means of control of the masses!


Like i said,

I can steal money if i have to.

I can't steal faith can I? I might be able to corrupt it though (oh, wait. Married now. Those days are over :lol


----------



## kh904

Gruffs said:


> Like i said,
> 
> I can steal money if i have to.
> 
> I can't steal faith can I? I might be able to corrupt it though (oh, wait. Married now. Those days are over :lol


:lol:

Yes you can steal money, but you don't really control it. You only have very limited control, but those who control the supply of money can manipulate it more powerfully (for eg. currency traders & central banks/interest rates/inflation & taxes etc etc).
So while you can steal money, eventually 'they' will get it back one way or another.


----------



## dominic84

> Yep, the debt does devalue along with the currency (we will get higher inflation) - so once again savers like myself who've worked hard and did the 'right thing' are being punished.
> 
> Yes the BoE is PRIVATELY OWNED, doesn't matter what you are told. Look up it's history, *and iirc the fact the nominal shareholders names are kept secret by law. Anyone who reveals it can be punished as an act of treason from what i've read up*
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_England
> *http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2010/02/...f-england.html*
> http://tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=203734
> 
> Yes i agree if they can release £75bn, they theoretically can do £100000tn, but remember this money still will have to be paid back at some point with interest. SO when this money is pumped into the system, inflation will happen (prices will go up), and over time this new 'money'/credit will be paid back meaning there's less money in the system but the prices will still be at the higher inflated price - SO we will be in a even worse position.
> 
> Wake up people - our generation along with the next few generations yet to come will be enslaved to the money masters!!!!!


The source you've given (which I've highlighted) does indeed make a statement with effect to the things you have based part of your post on (also in bold). That statement is:

"*Bank of England Nominees Limited *was granted an exemption by Edmund Dell, Secretary of State for Trade, from the disclosure requirements under Section 27(9) of the Companies Act 1976 , because, "it was considered undesirable that the disclosure requirements should apply to certain categories of shareholders." The Bank of England is also protected by its Royal Charter status, and the Official Secrets Act."

The problem is, that whole blog lacks credability due to the fact they've stated the name of a dormant company, and one which the full details of our available online http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/23fd0eea6707fb2035b4c06f03f9464d/wcprodorder?ft=1

So once again we've got an Internet source using half truths, and misinformation to further its own gains.


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## kh904

dominic84 said:


> The source you've given (which I've highlighted) does indeed make a statement with effect to the things you have based part of your post on (also in bold). That statement is:
> 
> "*Bank of England Nominees Limited *was granted an exemption by Edmund Dell, Secretary of State for Trade, from the disclosure requirements under Section 27(9) of the Companies Act 1976 , because, "it was considered undesirable that the disclosure requirements should apply to certain categories of shareholders." The Bank of England is also protected by its Royal Charter status, and the Official Secrets Act."
> 
> The problem is, that whole blog lacks credability due to the fact they've stated the name of a dormant company, and one which the full details of our available online http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/23fd0eea6707fb2035b4c06f03f9464d/wcprodorder?ft=1
> 
> So once again we've got an Internet source using half truths, and misinformation to further its own gains.


I agree, it's not the best link/source i used (it was the first one i came across):thumb: but there are plenty of others who have come to the same conclusion when looking into it (i just can't remember the source/links at this present time).


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## The Cueball

dominic84 said:


> The source you've given (which I've highlighted) does indeed make a statement with effect to the things you have based part of your post on (also in bold). That statement is:
> 
> "*Bank of England Nominees Limited *was granted an exemption by Edmund Dell, Secretary of State for Trade, from the disclosure requirements under Section 27(9) of the Companies Act 1976 , because, "it was considered undesirable that the disclosure requirements should apply to certain categories of shareholders." The Bank of England is also protected by its Royal Charter status, and the Official Secrets Act."
> 
> The problem is, that whole blog lacks credability due to the fact they've stated the name of a dormant company, and one which the full details of our available online http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/23fd0eea6707fb2035b4c06f03f9464d/wcprodorder?ft=1
> 
> So once again we've got an Internet source using half truths, and misinformation to further its own gains.


What you had said is true, however, they have just got the name wrong.....the "real" bank of England Company No. RC000042 is the same, and it's information is protected by Royal Charter....

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/7ce8b3f1ab32b2e0fb20945fbf7100fd/compdetails

A stupid mistake to make, I agree, but not one that should detract from the issue...

:thumb:


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## The Cueball

wow....even Jesus Christ had a bank!

Bank of Jesus Christ Ltd

:doublesho

:lol:


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## kh904

The Cueball said:


> wow....even Jesus Christ had a bank!
> 
> The Bank Of Jesus Christ Ltd
> 
> :doublesho
> 
> :lol:


:lol:

I thought you making a joke!
Yep, BoE is protected by the Royal Charter & Official secrets Act


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## DampDog

The Cueball said:


> wow....even Jesus Christ had a bank!
> 
> Bank of Jesus Christ Ltd
> 
> :doublesho
> 
> :lol:


Apparently first deposit was 30 pieces of silver..


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## kh904

:lol:


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## dominic84

> Another point to add is that some people don't seem to understand the definition of the word "terrorist".
> 
> Just an example here, but if I was to say to someone, "oh, I was speaking to a terrorist the other day about the Man City v Stoke game.... blah blah blah", I can 99.9% guarantee that the image that they have in their head is me talking to an Afghan/Muslim guy or similar stereotype (no racism meant there BTW).
> 
> However, let's look at the definition of "terrorism"
> 
> There is no universally agreed, legally binding, criminal law definition of terrorism.
> 
> Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for a religious, political or ideological goal, deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (civilians), and are committed by non-government agencies.
> 
> Please accept my apologies for using Wiki as a source of reference lol
> 
> The bit I have underlined always makes me chuckle.... Is whoever wrote this saying that our government CANNOT be a terrorist?
> 
> I think Dictionary.com gives a more accurate definition of the word.
> 
> Originally Posted by Dictionary.com
> ter·ror·ism [ter-uh-riz-uhm] Show IPA
> -noun
> 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
> 2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
> 3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.
> 
> In response to Cueballs question, "who are the terrorists", well, I have my own answers, but it's up to the individual to make up their own mind.


In other words the definition of terrorism or a terrorist is pretty loose, and can be adapted to suit ones own agenda. I could just as easily say you the people who say the Government are terrorists, are in fact terrorists :lol:



> wow....even Jesus Christ had a bank!
> 
> Bank of Jesus Christ Ltd


lol that's pretty funny - society is certainly a rich tapestry!



> What you had said is true, however, they have just got the name wrong.....the "real" bank of England Company No. RC000042 is the same, and it's information is protected by Royal Charter....


But lots of organisations, Universities for instance, are formed by Royal Charter as opposed to the companies act. It's not like the Bank of Enlgland is the only organisation to have some special formation status. Uni of Sussex for instace: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/f693f7be6271759f52063ded8835a7a0/compdetails

So I don't see anything mysterious here, just a not partculary well known formation method, that owing to its infrequent usage, plays quite nicely into the hands of the consipracy theorist.

But the thing I always say is; even if it's all true, and some Dr Evil family controls all the money and everything. So what? I don't feel controlled, I'm not controled, I do what I want - OK people 'higher up' are potentially making money out of me, but I'm making money out of people 'lower down'. If I want a bigger slice of the pie then I need to aim higher, not complain that I'm not being handed my 'fair shair'.

Which is why imo, anyway who feels they are controlled in that sense, needs to smell the coffee and embrace capitalism


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## The Cueball

dominic84 said:


> So I don't see anything mysterious here, just a not partculary well known formation method, that owing to its infrequent usage, plays quite nicely into the hands of the consipracy theorist.
> 
> But the thing I always say is; even if it's all true, and some Dr Evil family controls all the money and everything. So what? I don't feel controlled, I'm not controled, I do what I want - OK people 'higher up' are potentially making money out of me, but I'm making money out of people 'lower down'. If I want a bigger slice of the pie then I need to aim higher, not complain that I'm not being handed my 'fair shair'.
> 
> Which is why imo, anyway who feels they are controlled in that sense, needs to smell the coffee and embrace capitalism


There are lots of RC companies out there, I agree....BUT (and there is always a but) the other companies are not loaning money to the UK at interest, and controlling the money in the country....

The best way to enslave people is done so that they don't feel like slaves...

and I don't like coffee... 

:lol:

:thumb:


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## Derbyshire-stig

The Cueball said:


> email these idiots a link to this thread and try and teach them something useful! :lol:
> 
> :thumb:


After the crap I got earlier I have lol


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## 182_Blue

dominic84 said:


> So I don't see anything mysterious here, just a not partculary well known formation method, that owing to its infrequent usage, plays quite nicely into the hands of the consipracy theorist.
> 
> But the thing I always say is; even if it's all true, and some Dr Evil family controls all the money and everything. So what? I don't feel controlled, I'm not controled, I do what I want - OK people 'higher up' are potentially making money out of me, but I'm making money out of people 'lower down'. If I want a bigger slice of the pie then I need to aim higher, not complain that I'm not being handed my 'fair shair'.
> 
> Which is why imo, anyway who feels they are controlled in that sense, needs to smell the coffee and embrace capitalism


:thumb::thumb::thumb: , its all a bit like religion to me, believe what you wish but don't keep forcing it on others.


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## The Cueball

Derbyshire-stig said:


> After the crap I got earlier I have lol


Maybe they will join up and teach us all something

:thumb:



Shaun said:


> :thumb::thumb::thumb: , its all a bit like religion to me, believe what you wish but don't keep forcing it on others.


I think "forced" is a bit strong tbh... I don't think anyone is forcing anything on people... if you don't like it, don't read it...

We are just stating some truths and facts about the way money is controlled in this country....you can choose to believe it or now...

Read up about it or not.... no one is being forced!

:thumb:


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## dominic84

> There are lots of RC companies out there, I agree....BUT (and there is always a but) the other companies are not loaning money to the UK at interest, and controlling the money in the country....
> 
> The best way to enslave people is done so that they don't feel like slaves...
> 
> *and I don't like coffee...*


lol I didn't mean you particularly - you already seem to be on board the train.

I was funnily enough just making a coffee and the point I mean just sprung into my head:

Take Bill Gates as an example, came from nowhere to be one of the richest people in the world, if not the richest (according to the media ) let's say he wasn't because it's suspected a family are.

But, do you think Bill Gates cares that this family have made money out of him? He's living proof that you can make so much money it gets to a point where it becomes worthless. An extreme example of wealth but there are 100's of other 'zero to hero' entrepreneurs who have more money than they will ever need.

So at the end of the day all we've got is people making money out of other people. It's never going to change unless we do away with Capitalism, and quite frankly I would want that. What happens then? we all share equally in everyone's 'pie'. No thanks, I don't want some stay at home scrounger getting an equal share of my hard work, for example.

More power to anyone who can make the most money imo, and if you can have the whole world lining your pockets then you've done a fantastic job


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## kh904

dominic84 said:


> But lots of organisations, Universities for instance, are formed by Royal Charter as opposed to the companies act. It's not like the Bank of Enlgland is the only organisation to have some special formation status. Uni of Sussex for instace: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/f693f7be6271759f52063ded8835a7a0/compdetails
> 
> So I don't see anything mysterious here, just a not partculary well known formation method, that owing to its infrequent usage, plays quite nicely into the hands of the consipracy theorist.
> 
> But the thing I always say is; even if it's all true, and some Dr Evil family controls all the money and everything. So what? I don't feel controlled, I'm not controled, I do what I want - OK people 'higher up' are potentially making money out of me, but I'm making money out of people 'lower down'. If I want a bigger slice of the pie then I need to aim higher, not complain that I'm not being handed my 'fair shair'.


Are other companies protected by the Royal Charter protected by the Official secrets Act? (I actually don't know the answer)
And should the people have a right to know & look at the accounts & info of the BoE since apparently we own it?

On your last point, imo yes we are all controlled, some a lot more than others, playing the people off against each other (they also cause wars etc). So we are all effected in some way or another, and eventually we all will be effected more as time goes on, it's just in this present time you're not effected as much - yet! 
The middle class is being squeezed, and eventually in the future (if the current trend contnues) there won't be a middle class, just owners & slaves

Even if someone is successful & go up in society there's a glass ceiling that even some of the wealthiest people can't go above.

Now Bill Gates.... look what he is doing! It's a lot more sinister than the charity work he's doing if you look into it further (he was part of the Bilderberg meetings) - vaccination/population control etc. But that's another thread in itself.


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## 182_Blue

I am forced to read this day in and day out on here as part of my role on the forum, i do agree about the read up or not part though, just not on here constantly :thumb:



The Cueball said:


> Maybe they will join up and teach us all something
> 
> :thumb:
> 
> I think "forced" is a bit strong tbh... I don't think anyone is forcing anything on people... if you don't like it, don't read it...
> 
> We are just stating some truths and facts about the way money is controlled in this country....you can choose to believe it or now...
> 
> Read up about it or not.... no one is being forced!
> 
> :thumb:


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## kh904

Shaun said:


> I am forced to read this day in and day out on here as part of my role on the forum, i do agree about the read up or not part though, just not on here constantly :thumb:


That's fine & i understand where you're coming from, but surely the same can be said of the numerous repeat threads on waxes, shampoo's & polishes etc etc on other sections on this great site (i don't mean that sarcastically, it is a great site) 

:thumb:


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## The Cueball

Shaun said:


> I am forced to read this day in and day out on here as part of my role on the forum, i do agree about the read up or not part though, just not on here constantly :thumb:


Really sad to read that.....

1 current thread is hardly on here constantly though, is it?????

We (the people that ARE interested) have tried OUR best to keep it to one thread, can't we be allowed to get on and discuss it in a grown up and civilised manner (which it is) without people moaning at us.................

:thumb:


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## 182_Blue

The Cueball said:


> Really sad to read that.....
> 
> 1 current thread is hardly on here constantly though, is it?????
> 
> We (the people that ARE interested) have tried OUR best to keep it to one thread, can't we be allowed to get on and discuss it in a grown up and civilised manner (which it is) without people moaning at us.................
> 
> :thumb:


Two on the first page of off topic if you include the 'protests in New york' thread, its not just me , other users (The People) are telling me the same :thumb:


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## kh904

Shaun said:


> Two on the first page of off topic if you include the 'protests in New york' thread, its not just me , other users (The People) are telling me the same :thumb:


One thread is old & someone has bumped it up (imo quite rightly with what's currently happening).

Maybe so, but we also have burgulars getting shot & intruder killed etc, although different cases the core issues & the therefore the replies are essentially end up the same. 

Not having a go at you or anything, as i understand you have a job to do :thumb:


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## Gruffs

Shaun said:


> I am forced to read this day in and day out on here as part of my role on the forum, i do agree about the read up or not part though, just not on here constantly :thumb:


At least this is semi-interesting Shaun.

It could be another 'Is a DA safe to use' thread that could be answered a million times over by a simple search.

Or a look how good i am at polishing thread lots of pictures but no detail.

Some of us tried to move this away from DW to 'another place' \/\/\/ but it didn't work too well.


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## The Cueball

Shaun said:


> Two on the first page of off topic if you include the 'protests in New york' thread, its not just me , other users (The People) are telling me the same :thumb:


Are you being serious here?!?!?! 

What a bunch of sad, narrow minded people we have on here.....I guess grown up discussions about the real world is just too much for them...and they obviously can't just skip by something they have no interest in eh....... :wall::wall::wall:

I best go and start a "what wax for a black car" then eh...not seen a "best for" thread for about 2 minutes.....

I am genuinely dumbfounded by your statement..... I guess it would be best to stop all this chat then so we don't upset (The People) any more...


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## 182_Blue

No just having a laugh, carry on :thumb:


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## scoobymad

Shaun said:


> Two on the first page of off topic if you include the 'protests in New york' thread, its not just me , other users (The People) are telling me the same :thumb:


general section for a reason,general topics,

now what wax will i put on my pound coin............


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## The Cueball

Shaun said:


> No just having a laugh, carry on :thumb:


You're a 

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

:thumb:


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## 182_Blue

Gruffs said:


> At least this is semi-interesting Shaun.
> 
> It could be another 'Is a DA safe to use' thread that could be answered a million times over by a simple search.
> 
> Or a look how good i am at polishing thread lots of pictures but no detail.
> 
> Some of us tried to move this away from DW to 'another place' /// but it didn't work too well.


Aye, but i guess we are a detailing site after all :lol:


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## 182_Blue

The Cueball said:


> You're a
> 
> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> :thumb:


I do appreciate that you are keeping it in just one or two threads though :thumb:


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## Deano

didn't david icke start the "fairy liquid strips wax" myth?


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## kh904

Shaun said:


> No just having a laugh, carry on :thumb:


:lol:

You had me going there for a minute! :thumb:

So do you agree or disagree with our info we've posted on this topic (the financial crisis) saying that it's a scam or the dreaded word 'conspiracy'?


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## kh904

Deano said:


> didn't david icke start the "fairy liquid strips wax" myth?


But it's not a myth though is it, fairy liquid does strip wax!


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## Gruffs

Shaun said:


> Aye, but i guess we are a detailing site after all :lol:


Perhaps i can venture this;

_A discussion community with a detailing based theme_


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## Deano

kh904 said:


> But it's not a myth though is it, fairy liquid does strip wax!


no it doesnt.......or does it?


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## 182_Blue

kh904 said:


> :lol:
> 
> You had me going there for a minute! :thumb:
> 
> So do you agree or disagree with our info we've posted on this topic (the financial crisis) saying that it's a scam or the dreaded word 'conspiracy'?


I am not going to comment :thumb:, i have my thoughts on most things but i choose to keep the buried deep inside me :lol: or i would get arrested :doublesho:lol:.

:wave:

Keep up the good work :thumb:


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## Gruffs

Shaun said:


> Aye, but i guess we are a detailing site after all :lol:





Shaun said:


> I am not going to comment :thumb:, i have my thoughts on most things but i choose to keep the buried deep inside me :lol: or i would get arrested :doublesho:lol:.
> 
> :wave:
> 
> Keep up the good work :thumb:


The response of a good mod.

:lol::lol:

:thumb:


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## scoobymad

Gruffs said:


> The response of a good mod.
> 
> :lol::lol:
> 
> :thumb:


Because mod's aren't human :lol: :lol:


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## 182_Blue

scoobymad said:


> Because mod's aren't human :lol: :lol:


Hmmmm, wheres that damn BAN button


----------



## scoobymad

Shaun said:


> Hmmmm, wheres that damn BAN button


next to your flux capacitor jedi??


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## DampDog

Gruffs said:


> Perhaps i can venture this;
> 
> _A discussion community with a detailing based theme_


Best do me best to pull it back.

So assuming you have some money that the "Illuminati reptilian aliens" haven't stolen what's the best metal polish to use on a pound coin?

Also if David Icke is so good a predicting the future, why did he let so many goals in? I'd have though he's have had the heads up which way to dive?

Plus for the life of me I cannot believe George Bush, was a evil genius. This is a man who almost choked to death eating a pretzel.

_Sorry, just felt like being silly.._


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## kh904

http://www.may29th.org/?p=317

Here you go, their goals for a 'New World Order' & One world currency are being openly admitted by George Soros himself.


----------



## amiller

No idea why, but I can't help think that this is all codswallop! Not sure if it is my straight laced conformist upbringing, or just my arrogant narrow mindedness. 

If I'm going to change the way I perceive the circular flow of money and its interaction with government/politics, it isn't going to be from Youtube.


----------



## kh904

amiller said:


> No idea why, but I can't help think that this is all codswallop! Not sure if it is my straight laced conformist upbringing, or just my arrogant narrow mindedness.
> 
> If I'm going to change the way I perceive the circular flow of money and its interaction with government/politics, it isn't going to be from Youtube.


Okay so where from do you get your perception from? And what makes that more truthful?

I think George Soros knows more than your average expert when it comes to finance :thumb:

I thin you need to look at the circular flow of money from PRIVATE central banks with governments/politics.


----------



## Ninja59

Shaun said:


> Hmmmm, wheres that damn BAN button


Where you left your glasses


----------



## kh904

Interesting comment about the media especially in the UK there is a push for greater regulatory powers of the press!


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## The Cueball

Ron Paul is one point from winning Iowa... we could just be starting to move here... maybe....

fingers crossed

:thumb:


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## kh904

The Cueball said:


> Ron Paul is one point from winning Iowa... we could just be starting to move here... maybe....
> 
> fingers crossed
> 
> :thumb:


My fingers and toes are also crossed!

From all the interviews & debates that i've watched, he makes absolute sense! We need a British version of him here!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/ana-marie-cox-blog/2011/dec/15/what-if-ron-paul-wins-iowa

The guy is a legend! 
He's raised more money from the military servicemen than Obama did iirc & more than all the current republican candidates put together, but still the mainstream media don't give him the coverage he deserves!


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## The Cueball

with all the fuss and shouting about petrol prices and tax etc etc... I thought this thread could be good for a wee bump....

The more people that actually understands the way this world works (financially) the better off we all are...

:thumb:


----------



## kh904

Well, sorry to bump an old thread but here's a very interesting video with a bank manager who talks about LIBOR & what we have been discussing in this thread i.e. creating money out of nothing in bank loans.

It also touches on debt collectors paying your debt off (so you no longer owe the debt), making your own promissory notes, credit agreements,

and...........

the briefly about the corporate fiction (i've mentioned before about the birth certificate, your name in capital letters) & titles ie Mr, Mrs etc

:thumb:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Eb7Jv-cKAbI#!


----------

