# Am I doing something wrong with FK1000?



## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

Hi guys,

I bought some FK1000 at Christmas and have used it on my car and on another but it doesn't seem to be lasting very well on either.

I did apply it in the cold and we were getting bad frosts every night does this have an affect on the durability?

It only seems to have lasted a couple of weeks and the beading is pretty poor. 

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Ben


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

sounds daft but have you washed it since? dirt will stop beading. once its clean itll bead away again.


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## pdv40 (Sep 11, 2008)

What had you done to the paintwork prior to applying FK?

Clayed/polished/glazed etc?


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## slkman (Jun 23, 2009)

How did you prepare your vehicle? If you popped it on top of old wax then thats where the problem lies.


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## Edward101 (Jun 5, 2009)

Sounds like it hasnt bonded properly, maybe you used something to oily beneath?


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

Wow so many replies lol

Sorry for not being clearer, I have:

Foamed
Washed
Clayed
Polished with PO85RD
PB BH over the top

Then 2 layers of FK1000 but 1 after the other didn't really have time to allow it to cure overnight or anything.

EDIT: Yes been cleaned several times but it simply doesn't bead the way it used to. These was some old cheapo wax on the car from the previous owner however I expected that to all disappear when I polished?


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## pdv40 (Sep 11, 2008)

I'm stumped...


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## slkman (Jun 23, 2009)

Maybe black hole is too slick for fk? Or maybe the whole lot didn't cure due to the poor weather and you rubbed it off inadvertantly....


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

I kinda put it down to the cold weather and the fact it was applied in the evening and then the car was left outside overnight.

Would an IPA wipe down help after polishing?


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## slkman (Jun 23, 2009)

Probably not. Leaving things longer to bond especially with sealant waxes will help. Use a carnuba if you can't wait so long they are usually less fussy.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

gr33n said:


> Wow so many replies lol
> 
> Sorry for not being clearer, I have:
> 
> ...


I would be interested in learning the answer, I don't have FK1000 or likely to, the FK2685 was just ok and looking at FK website should perform little different to the 1000, however what is surprising is that I have applied BH to a car with nothing on top and it lasted a good month.


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## slkman (Jun 23, 2009)

Other thing is only add one layer of fk and see if that helps. The high levels of solvents tend to strip unbonded product off your vehicle.


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

slkman said:


> Probably not. Leaving things longer to bond especially with sealant waxes will help. Use a carnuba if you can't wait so long they are usually less fussy.


How long should I be waiting before buffing off?
and
How long should I wait between coats?

Thanks

Ben


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## slkman (Jun 23, 2009)

To be on the safe side you should be aiming for 24hours between coats ideally. That way your guaranteed a properly bonded surface to apply another layer. Zaino Z2/Z5 has a similar problem with layering which requires ZFX to be mixed in to allowing multiple layers inside 24 hours but even then you have to wait an hour or so between layers.


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## slkman (Jun 23, 2009)

oh, as for buffing off just buff off after the normal amount of time... its the waiting time before you apply fk again which is important.


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## Cheesy231 (Apr 6, 2009)

just out of curiosity what foam and shampoo are you using? any drying aids?


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Cheesy231 said:


> just out of curiosity what foam and shampoo are you using? any drying aids?


It's a valid question I suppose (unless of course you were going on to say the foam/shampoo stripped the wax  )


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## Cheesy231 (Apr 6, 2009)

Avanti said:


> It's a valid question I suppose (unless of course you were going on to say the foam/shampoo stripped the wax  )


no. interested to see weather the OP is using any wash and wax style products or protection detailers that may be adding their own protection. experienced this myself and thought the wax was to blame.


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

Black Hole is VERY oily, especially by hand.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Cheesy231 said:


> no. interested to see weather the OP is using any wash and wax style products or protection detailers that may be adding their own protection. experienced this myself and thought the wax was to blame.


I do note though from other posts that many FK1000 users apply a spray product after a wash, so perhaps it is not as durable as claimed, on my kitchen drain board 2685 was little or no better than MER polish


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

Cheesy231 said:


> just out of curiosity what foam and shampoo are you using? any drying aids?


Im using the Elite Snow Foam and AG Bodywork Conditioner. No drying aids.


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

I don't, last time I added anything to the wifes car was in Oct 09, which was 2 coats of FK. Just washed with Glossworkz since. 

It might be that the additives (if you believe the marketing) which invoke more beading, are doing their job, or maybe being a ham fisted valeter who applies wax too thick has managed to put an inch thick layer on the paintwork.

Right now I can't argue with it's durability, but I can with the looks.


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

Im considering getting some DODO Supernatural to see if I get different results, a good excuse to buy it I feel :lol:


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Can I ask how you applied it? Ie what type of pad/use any Qd/ how long it was left?


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

Blazebro said:


> Can I ask how you applied it? Ie what type of pad/use any Qd/ how long it was left?


I used a Megs foam pad with the thinnest possible layer I could get really. It was then left for about 10mins before being buffed off and I applied a 2nd coat same technique.

I now realise that I need to wait longer between coats.:lol: Its all a learning curve at the minute.

EDIT: No Quick Detailer was used.


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

Avanti said:


> I do note though from other posts that many FK1000 users apply a spray product after a wash, so perhaps it is not as durable as claimed, on my kitchen drain board 2685 was little or no better than MER polish


LOL, you love to knock the old FK don't you, but I note you have never even used it?.

Why don't you have a go at using it your self, it didn't win DW product of the year by being no good, try it on a car though as I am not sure how relevant another a test on draining board would be:thumb:. However I use it on my chrome light sockets and it makes cleaning them far easier:lol:

To the OP I've never been too fusy when using it, often only doing one coat, but it sat very nicely on top of a coat of PB BH from late october all the way through to March this year, was still looking great and beading pretty well.

Its a weird situation for sure and not usual from my experience, I am afraid I can't suggest any thing other than bunging another coat on ?, might be worth emailing finish kare for advice:wave:


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

gr33n said:


> I used a Megs foam pad with the thinnest possible layer I could get really. It was then left for about 10mins before being buffed off and I applied a 2nd coat same technique.
> 
> I now realise that I need to wait longer between coats.:lol: Its all a learning curve at the minute.
> 
> EDIT: No Quick Detailer was used.


I just add the second coat as a top up the following week, deffo get the first coat cured by then:wave:


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

Danno1975 said:


> LOL, you love to knock the old FK don't you, but I note you have never even used it?.
> 
> Why don't you have a go at using it your self, it didn't win DW product of the year by being no good, try it on a car though as I am not sure how relevant another a test on draining board would be:thumb:. However I use it on my chrome light sockets and it makes cleaning them far easier:lol:
> 
> ...


This is my problem. I know the product is good, like you say It didn't win product of the year for no reason, so it is obviously something im doing incorrectly.

Im swaying towards the conclusion of weather and applying coats too quickly. I will have to try it again, tomorrow probably :lol:


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

gr33n said:


> I used a Megs foam pad with the thinnest possible layer I could get really. It was then left for about 10mins before being buffed off and I applied a 2nd coat same technique.
> 
> I now realise that I need to wait longer between coats.:lol: Its all a learning curve at the minute.
> 
> EDIT: No Quick Detailer was used.


Sometimes I think people can concentrate too much on getting a thing layer an not put any on at all. When I applied (as I did to my car too) the stuff would gass for about a month after. I also used Actimousse plenty of times.

I can't knock your process and leave 20-30mins between coats is all that's needed.

I still use it on my wheels, which I clean with Stardrops (a tough APC) and it's standing up well.



Danno1975 said:


> LOL, you love to knock the old FK don't you, but I note you have never even used it?.
> 
> Why don't you have a go at using it your self, it didn't win DW product of the year by being no good, try it on a car though as I am not sure how relevant another a test on draining board would be:thumb:. However I use it on my chrome light sockets and it makes cleaning them far easier:lol:
> 
> ...


TBF to Avanti, imo it one of those products which is severly over hyped and I think that's really what he's getting at. In reallity there are loads of other waxes/sealents out there with similar durability, but far better looks, that's cirtainly my take on the product.

It one of the things that I suppose we could be critical of the site for. there tends to be a wave of appreciation for cirtain products, which people can get carried away with. there's quite a few others I could mention which are similarly over hyped. I've been bitten more than once by this, hopefully now I'm mature enough, and have enough knowlege for it not to happen again.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

I love FK and Collies 476 but for ease of application, durability and looks I only use Opti Seal nowerdays. Superb product, wipe on walk away, so no possilbe marks from buffing and the finish is like glass. Only sealant I will use now.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Danno1975 said:


> LOL, *you love to knock the old FK don't you, but I note you have never even used it?.*
> 
> Why don't you have a go at using it your self, it didn't win DW product of the year by being no good, try it on a car though as I am not sure how relevant another a test on draining board would be:thumb:. However I use it on my chrome light sockets and it makes cleaning them far easier:lol:
> 
> ...


But I do have FK 2685 and from FK own site , in effect what I lose in durability (which it is still claimed to be durable) I gain in depth of finish.
Sadly I would not stretch to buying any as 1) I wouldn't use it on my own car 2) I already have more than 14 paste products to use up, so going on other reviews I would not notice anything in looks and not going to gain in durability, so it is difficult for it to find a place in my collection.
The kitchen draining board is a good place for me to apply products as I wash up by hand, so notice quickly when the beading reduces and there is lots of splash of hot water and washing up liquid , plus my additional spraying of kitchen degreasers etc to see what can remove the product .
However some posters are more honest about the true perfomance of products than others and hence another reason for not rushing to buy the product (after all some say they look the same  ) The OP has found the product has not instantly met his expectations at present


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

Blazebro said:


> Sometimes I think people can concentrate too much on getting a thing layer an not put any on at all. When I applied (as I did to my car too) the stuff would gass for about a month after. I also used Actimousse plenty of times.
> 
> I can't knock your process and leave 20-30mins between coats is all that's needed.
> 
> ...


Fair play, though I don't think FK is one of those products in this case. I've spoken highley of it as I do rate it, it's a good product for the price, in the same bracket as collinite etc . Overall its a good honest sealant that gives a good appearence and lasts well all for about £17.

I admire Avantis dogged appearence in any thread noting FK, as much as I admire RisingPowers hatred of diesel :wave::thumb:


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Avanti said:


> But I do have FK 2685 and from FK own site , in effect what I lose in durability (which it is still claimed to be durable) I gain in depth of finish.
> Sadly I would not stretch to buying any as 1) I wouldn't use it on my own car 2) I already have more than 14 paste products to use up, so going on other reviews I would not notice anything in looks and not going to gain in durability, so it is difficult for it to find a place in my collection.
> The kitchen draining board is a good place for me to apply products as I wash up by hand, so notice quickly when the beading reduces and there is lots of splash of hot water and washing up liquid , plus my additional spraying of kitchen degreasers etc to see what can remove the product .
> However some posters are more honest about the true perfomance of products than others and hence another reason for not rushing to buy the product (after all some say they look the same  ) The OP has found the product has not instantly met his expectations at present


But all waxes/sealants will degrade very quickly with washing up liquid, that are full of salts.

Would you use kitchen degreasers on a car, I would not!!!

You are not giving them a fair test in that environment.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

gr33n said:


> This is my problem. I know the product is good, like you say It didn't win product of the year for no reason, so it is obviously something im doing incorrectly.
> 
> Im swaying towards the conclusion of weather and applying coats too quickly. I will have to try it again, tomorrow probably :lol:


It did win product of the year but that is only due to who voted for it, after all how many have a pot of Zymol or Swisswax compared to a budget product?



Blazebro said:


> Sometimes I think people can concentrate too much on getting a thing layer an not put any on at all. When I applied (as I did to my car too) the stuff would gass for about a month after. I also used Actimousse plenty of times.
> 
> I can't knock your process and leave 20-30mins between coats is all that's needed.
> 
> ...


Yep, this is the thing, the previous year it was 476 who knows what next year it will be?
Those that have both 476 and FK1000 ,I'm sure do not report a world of difference between the 2 products and a growing trend of posts saying that FK has been relegated to none bodywork duties or the poster has gone back to another product, perhaps the foundation on the OPs car is what has let it down on this occasion, but 2 weeks seems remarkably low


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

Mirror Finish said:


> I love FK and Collies 476 but for ease of application, durability and looks I only use Opti Seal nowerdays. Superb product, wipe on walk away, so no possilbe marks from buffing and the finish is like glass. Only sealant I will use now.


Might try that:thumb:


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Danno1975 said:


> Fair play, though I don't think FK is one of those products in this case. I've spoken highley of it as I do rate it, it's a good product for the price, in the same bracket as collinite etc . Overall its a good honest sealant that gives a good appearence and lasts well all for about £17.
> 
> I admire Avantis dogged appearence in any thread noting FK, as much as I admire RisingPowers hatred of diesel :wave::thumb:


I understand what your saying, but by it winning the product of the year imo dosen't really give it anymore weight than Simonize winning the Autoexpress review. What I've noticed is that people will vote for the product which they tend to use and currently are, not necessarily the best product that is available.

For instance IMO the Tropicare sealent (which is around £11) has similar durability, better looks and is easier to apply, but why isn't there the same level of interest? Or why is the greatest shampoo known to man one that has an overpowering smell, suds well and an oily feel, but dosen't necessarily clean all that well and dosen't leave a finish and one which the manufacturer have themselves improved?


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

OK so I have just been quizzed by my other half as to what im talking about on the internet. So I explained about my results with FK1000, she has now told me that my car was washed whilst I was away on holiday earlier this year.

It was washed with, and I quote Halfords Value Shampoo. I presume this:

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/..._productId_248758_langId_-1_categoryId_165527

Now I dont want to create an argument but would this degrade my FK1000?


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Mirror Finish said:


> *But all waxes/sealants will degrade very quickly with washing up liquid, that are full of salts. *
> Would you use kitchen degreasers on a car, I would not!!!
> 
> You are not giving them a fair test in that environment.


Trust me they don't :thumb: 
Lord knows I have tried as I don't beleive wax is that fickle and runs away at the presence of all detergents, I have some Easy washing up liquid and the ingredients do not mention salt, although it does mention limonene which is a degreaser.
Now you mention kitchen degreaser, a spray of astonish oven cleaner and a wipe with the microfibre and the wax is gone! thanks to the presence of SMP and ETA :thumb:


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

gr33n said:


> OK so I have just been quizzed by my other half as to what im talking about on the internet. So I explained about my results with FK1000, she has now told me that my car was washed whilst I was away on holiday earlier this year.
> 
> It was washed with, and I quote Halfords Value Shampoo. I presume this:
> 
> ...


At 1st I would automatically say no, however looking at the description and the data sheet, would liken it to Simoniz wax free shampoo in that both have a similar description of 
"Halfords Value Car Wash Shampoo 5L removes dirt and grime, *leaving the surface ready for polishing.* Simply add to water and wash the paintwork with a car wash sponge, brush or glove."

Which would lead me to believe that it is a product type many should have in their collection :thumb:


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Danno1975 said:


> Fair play, though I don't think FK is one of those products in this case. I've spoken highley of it as I do rate it, it's a good product for the price, in the same bracket as collinite etc . *Overall its a good honest sealant that gives a good appearence and lasts well all for about £17. *
> I admire Avantis dogged appearence in any thread noting FK, as much as I admire RisingPowers hatred of diesel :wave::thumb:


I have no doubt it's a good product for £17 it is not the ONLY product though, the Artemis wax seal is even better value at £15 delivered :thumb:


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

Blazebro said:


> I understand what your saying, but by it winning the product of the year imo dosen't really give it anymore weight than Simonize winning the Autoexpress review. What I've noticed is that people will vote for the product which they tend to use and currently are, not necessarily the best product that is available.
> 
> For instance IMO the Tropicare sealent (which is around £11) has similar durability, better looks and is easier to apply, but why isn't there the same level of interest? Or why is the greatest shampoo known to man one that has an overpowering smell, suds well and an oily feel, but dosen't necessarily clean all that well and dosen't leave a finish and one which the manufacturer have themselves improved?


I can't answer that, its down to mob mentality I guess, lucky for Finish Kare, people love tips on products as they are so expensive no one would be able to try them all (aside from the pro's hence the awsome wax test on a horse box a year or so ago).

I bought some FK on Vipers recomendation and think its great so I use it..

Not the product point though.


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

Avanti said:


> I have no doubt it's a good product for £17 it is not the ONLY product though, the Artemis wax seal is even better value at £15 delivered :thumb:


What do you think of that over the Chemical Guys XXX wax?.


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

The Artemis is a LOT smaller though, but agree, very good too.

OP, did you leave it on for 20 minutes to cure? Sorry if you've answered this.

I've found it does have mixed results depending on length of time to cure and temperature. When done properly, it beads even when there's dirt sat on the paint. It's very durable, not quite Colli 476S, but definitely up there with the best.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Danno1975 said:


> What do you think of that over the Chemical Guys XXX wax?.


As I have some, I think it is good, I applied it to a Mini last year and was impressed with the final results :thumb:

I can't remember if I tried it on my own car if I did I only left it on for a month, let me get a pic of the mini :thumb:



















oh it seems to perform better on lighter coloured vehicles as I also used it on this golf


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

RussZS said:


> The Artemis is a LOT smaller though, but agree, very good too.
> 
> OP, did you leave it on for 20 minutes to cure? Sorry if you've answered this.
> 
> I've found it does have mixed results depending on length of time to cure and temperature. When done properly, it beads even when there's dirt sat on the paint. It's very durable, not quite Colli 476S, but definitely up there with the best.


It has been answered but no probs  There seems to be varying cure times being given out but it was only left for about 5-10mins and the temperatures were close to freezing at the time of applying.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

RussZS said:


> *The Artemis is a LOT smaller though, but agree, very good too.*
> OP, did you leave it on for 20 minutes to cure? Sorry if you've answered this.
> 
> *I've found it does have mixed results *depending on length of time to cure and temperature. When done properly, it beads even when there's dirt sat on the paint. It's very durable, not quite Colli 476S, but definitely up there with the best.


I would be more tempted to try other products if they were supplied in 100ml as they just last too long 
But yes it seems some products get mixed results


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## dschia (Sep 21, 2008)

I am living in a high humiditiy here and I get better result for leaving Fk1000p on for more that 30 mins before buffing off. imo it makes alot of difference. Anyway even so, I find 476s tougher, at least on my set of cars/ environment/ application/ maintenance method.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

gr33n said:


> OK so I have just been quizzed by my other half as to what im talking about on the internet. So I explained about my results with FK1000, she has now told me that my car was washed whilst I was away on holiday earlier this year.
> 
> It was washed with, and I quote Halfords Value Shampoo. I presume this:
> 
> ...


I got some of that shampoo today, actually it's very good at the job in hand (to strip wax ), used it on 2 cars, on the golf I applied 150ml to the wash and used a mitt as described, the foam was not good but later realised the air intake was blocked, then the 2nd time I used it on a vectra , foams up well and completed a mitless wash in prep for some polish and wax, the residue was slimy so the wax appeared to be dissolved/ing, bargain at £4 for 5litres :thumb:


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

^ Interesting, any idea what's in it?


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Blazebro said:


> ^ Interesting, any idea what's in it?


I'm waiting for the datasheet, it is very thick jelly like and once the foam bottle was sorted it foamed well, I also got some intensive glass cutter polish, that is also very worthy , ok it comes in a 250ml bottle , but you use a tiny spot per section of glass (for some reason it is not included in the 342 offer but after some moaning to the manager , he wrangled the deal for me :thumb


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

Avanti said:


> I got some of that shampoo today, actually it's very good at the job in hand (to strip wax ), used it on 2 cars, on the golf I applied 150ml to the wash and used a mitt as described, the foam was not good but later realised the air intake was blocked, then the 2nd time I used it on a vectra , foams up well and completed a mitless wash in prep for some polish and wax, the residue was slimy so the wax appeared to be dissolved/ing, bargain at £4 for 5litres :thumb:


Well atleast ive managed to be a help to you :lol:

Ive bought myself some Megs Gold Class in the Halfords 342 deal works about at £10.66 a bottle, pretty good deal I thought.

Ill keep the wax stripper for well...wax stripping lol.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

gr33n said:


> *Well atleast ive managed to be a help to you *:lol:
> 
> Ive bought myself some Megs Gold Class in the Halfords 342 deal works about at £10.66 a bottle, pretty good deal I thought.
> 
> Ill keep the wax stripper for well...wax stripping lol.


Yes and a lot of folk, it is an often asked question on what to use to strip wax, the Halfords Value wash and the Simoniz wax free shampoo were designed for the job , will be playing with it more on freshly applied wax to see how it deals :thumb:


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

Well Ive applied another layer of FK1000 today and I made sure it was left for a good 20mins. So I hopeful this layer will last better than the last 2 did.

Thanks for your help its much appreciated.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Blazebro said:


> ^ Interesting, any idea what's in it?


Looks like the masin culprit this time is diethylene glycol  well like wine additive heh heh well more anti freeze, which makes sense why the product works at stripping wax :thumb:


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