# winter tyres + 300bhp



## donnyboy (Oct 27, 2005)

Anyone running them?

I put a set on a couple of weeks ago, and on greasy roads, I'm still losing alot of traction. The car is APR stage1 mk2 Leon Cupra, but I expected more traction than this. The Michelin PS3's I took off were worse, but not that much worse.

Tyres are Kumho kw27 and have done about 250 miles on them. The sipes are staring to open up so I'm assuming they're scrubbed by now. Not tried them on snow or ice yet, just expected more on greasy roads.

They were second hand with only a few weeks/few hundred miles use. They looked brand new and had 8mm of tread. Date codes are 2011.


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## chunkytfg (Feb 1, 2009)

TBH winter tyres are more about the traction they will provide in snow than providing extra grip compared to normal tyres when it is just a bit greasy.


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

Will check mine although I only have 280bhp.
No issues and I put them on half the year.


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## donnyboy (Oct 27, 2005)

I've read alot about winters taking longer to bed in and get rid of the release agent in the rubber. I'd expect them to be better than the summers on the bends, but they ain't!


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## pharmed (Feb 11, 2013)

Running normal tyres with ~330hp with no problems... might be the roads near you?


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## Jace (Oct 26, 2005)

Easy, quick burn out, rotate tyres ft>rr & repeat

Tyres now scrubbed all round.

Release agent on a tyre is only like a waxey/greasy coating & would be gone in a mile or so


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## Blackroc (Dec 10, 2012)

donnyboy said:


> Anyone running them?
> 
> I put a set on a couple of weeks ago, and on greasy roads, I'm still losing alot of traction. The car is APR stage1 mk2 Leon Cupra, but I expected more traction than this. The Michelin PS3's I took off were worse, but not that much worse.
> 
> ...


Yeah we are running winters on our M135. The warmer it's getting the less traction they are giving to be fair.

They are MUCH better in icy weather and snow, rather that wet and cold.


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## donnyboy (Oct 27, 2005)

On the way home from work I went to a private road. 

TCS off, spun it up in 2nd, 3rd and 4th from 30mph rolling start! :doublesho


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

With bluefin stg1 on a cupra and nexan winguards traction is fine in the wet, still a bit of slip in the greasy conditions but better than the pirrelis although you will be told winters are only good for 1 day when it snows


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## JamesCotton (Feb 25, 2013)

They feel greasy because its softer compound so it gonna move more surely?


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## davidcraggs (Aug 1, 2007)

Yep 313bhp and 630Nm torque - no dramas.


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## donnyboy (Oct 27, 2005)

davidcraggs said:


> Yep 313bhp and 630Nm torque - no dramas.


630nm.....what you drive?

The roads round here do seem pretty greasy tonight. They'll be on for another month to scrub in more.


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## Blackroc (Dec 10, 2012)

donnyboy said:


> On the way home from work I went to a private road.
> 
> TCS off, spun it up in 2nd, 3rd and 4th from 30mph rolling start! :doublesho


I can get the TC light on in 6th booting it on the motorway with the winters on..

Summers are a different kettle fish..

Michelin PSS's are stunning tyres


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Drive like a tool, spin up. Perish the thought i'm down to ~2.6mm on fk452s and managing.

Who even cares if you spin up slightly on a fwd car?


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## donnyboy (Oct 27, 2005)

Blackroc said:


> I can get the TC light on in 6th booting it on the motorway with the winters on..
> 
> Summers are a different kettle fish..
> 
> Michelin PSS's are stunning tyres


Yeah, I can get the odd flicker on Mways in higher gears. The PS3's are great tyres in the wet and dry.



RisingPower said:


> Drive like a tool, spin up. Perish the thought i'm down to ~2.6mm on fk452s and managing.
> 
> Who even cares if you spin up slightly on a fwd car?


Spinning up means no traction. I get it pulling out from busy junctions. I want to know the traction is there when I need it.

I don't drive about spinning the tyres up. Just tried it to scrub them abit to see if it helps bed them in. They cost too much to drive around 'like a tool' as you put it.

Its more on roundabouts that I want the traction. Even at low speeds I can feel it breaking away. The PS3's felt better in that area in these temps.

Thanks for your input though.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

donnyboy said:


> Yeah, I can get the odd flicker on Mways in higher gears. The PS3's are great tyres in the wet and dry.
> 
> Spinning up means no traction. I get it pulling out from busy junctions. I want to know the traction is there when I need it.
> 
> ...


I very much doubt the cupra makes all of those 300 horses from idle.

If you can feel it breaking away from pulling away, they're either totally awful tyres, i.e. budget tyres, or still scrubbing in.

I know I can spin up the fk452s on the zed, as they're down to 2~ mm and have very little weight over them at all, but only when you drive like a muppet when pulling away.

Michelins are fantastic tyres, the ps2's were great, but you can't really expect kumhos/falkens to have the same amount of grip/feel. They're still perfectly ok, they're just not as confidence inspiring as the michelins.


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## TubbyTwo (Apr 14, 2011)

Drive normally until you can fit decent tyres again?

I drive my supra every day, summer tyres and 430hp through the rears and that hardly spins up.

Owned a Cupra R before that remapped to 280hp, horrible fwd scrabble waggon off the line.


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## donnyboy (Oct 27, 2005)

I do drive pretty slow to be honest. There's a time and a place for driving fast. I'm usually the guy in 30 and 40 zones with people hanging off my bumper trying to push me down the road cause I'm doing the correct speed.

Its just the odd time when I've had to test the grip that they don't inspire confidence. I'm maybe expecting too much from them, but will get the benefit on snow and ice. 
Yes they are a budget tyre for a winter tyre, but though they would be better in these conditions that a premium summer tyre.

I think its the torque that's the issue with the traction too. You get alot quite low down the rev range, so its breaks traction. The car is very drivable, its just busy junctions and roundabouts on my commute where you don't get many chance's to get out, and have to pull out quick to get going. It just surprised me the low traction of them. Hope that makes sense.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

donnyboy said:


> I do drive pretty slow to be honest. There's a time and a place for driving fast. I'm usually the guy in 30 and 40 zones with people hanging off my bumper trying to push me down the road cause I'm doing the correct speed.
> 
> Its just the odd time when I've had to test the grip that they don't inspire confidence. I'm maybe expecting too much from them, but will get the benefit on snow and ice.
> Yes they are a budget tyre for a winter tyre, but though they would be better in these conditions that a premium summer tyre.
> ...


If you worry about the torque, which will be there on the cupra, you know you don't have to floor it off the mark, everytime


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## Pezza4u (Jun 7, 2007)

I've just started having similar issues with my winter tyres, which are Goodyear Ultra Grip 7+. I've been running them for 14 months now without issue until about a month or 2 ago when they started to lose traction pulling away and on roundabouts, even when going slowly.

I don't do alot of mileage so the sipes are still there but I'm going to swap the fronts over with the rear at the weekend to see what difference it makes. The car is a FWD with 190 bhp so doesn't have loads of power to spin them. ATM it can be similar to driving on budget summer tyres on damp roads!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I've been driving for 17 years in this country and never needed winter tyres...

This year was different, I drive down to England a lot now, so I thought I would give them a go...

So this is how the S8 usually looks (I'm sure you've all seen it before mind you)










And this is it in "winter mode" with the smaller wheels and Toyo SnowProx tyres...










With it being a "proper quattro", and having the big wide 20" wheels, traction in all weathers has never been an issue... it's always planted, it never causes any fuss....

Now I'm down to skinny, smaller 17" wheels... and the correct tyre size as per Audi... the thing is a nightmare!

Having driven for years in Sweden, during winter, I do understand specific winter tyres and how good they can be... they just seem to have made this car worse (IMO)... I can confirm Volvos (for example) with winters are pretty good... well they served me well when the snow storm hit last December... 

So there you go... Audi S8 with "proper" winter wheels and tyres:

no grip, no traction, tramlines, really soft ride... horrible car... I have less faith and less convidence in it!

:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:


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## donnyboy (Oct 27, 2005)

Were they brand new tyres? How many miles have you put on them?

I read from one person today that winters can take 1000miles to bed in. :doublesho


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Yeah, brand new wheels and tyres....

I've only managed about 500 miles so far... maybe even less than that... will have another 1,000 miles round trip next week, so we'll see if that makes any difference to them....

By then, the temps will be above the "magical" 7 degrees though.... 

:lol:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Cueeey!!!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> Cueeey!!!


Hey gorgeous....

:argie::argie::argie:



:thumb:


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## donnyboy (Oct 27, 2005)

Yeah, the 7 degrees thing. 

I've heard of people running them all year due the grip they give in wet, cold, snow and ice. They are squirmy in hot/dry weather though. Thats why I can't help thinking they are bedding in and 'should' get better


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I can't see the point of running them in summer tbh... 

Yeah, maybe mine will be better by next winter!!!

My normal wheels are away to be redone at the moment, as soon as they are back, and sealed up, they are going back on!

:thumb:


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## Pezza4u (Jun 7, 2007)

donnyboy said:


> Yeah, the 7 degrees thing.
> 
> I've heard of people running them all year due the grip they give in wet, cold, snow and ice. They are squirmy in hot/dry weather though. Thats why I can't help thinking they are bedding in and 'should' get better


Run mine all year and they were much better than summer tyres in the rain. Yes they're abit soft when it's warmer but it's not really an issue.

They have been perfect until recently and I'm suspecting there may even be a fault with the tyres for them to suddenly drop in performance like this.


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## TubbyTwo (Apr 14, 2011)

He's back!!! :d


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## donnyboy (Oct 27, 2005)

Pezza4u said:


> Run mine all year and they were much better than summer tyres in the rain. Yes they're abit soft when it's warmer but it's not really an issue.
> 
> They have been perfect until recently and I'm suspecting there may even be a fault with the tyres for them to suddenly drop in performance like this.


I also read that once winter get to around 3-4mm they stop being as good in bad weather. Could be that?

Can you tell I've being reading alot about winter tyres!! :wall:


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## davidcraggs (Aug 1, 2007)

donnyboy said:


> 630nm.....what you drive?


640d. No trouble so far even when plenty of front wheel drive cars were requiring a push!


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Come to think of it, I thought my winter tyres took quite a while to bed in properly. They were good at first, better than my eco contacts in the cold but the wet weather performance in particular improved after about 500-600 miles. 

They're not terrible above 7 degrees either but if you go over 10 they start to show that they're not designed for higher temps.


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## Pezza4u (Jun 7, 2007)

donnyboy said:


> I also read that once winter get to around 3-4mm they stop being as good in bad weather. Could be that?
> 
> Can you tell I've being reading alot about winter tyres!! :wall:


Yes once the sipes have gone but they're still there on the fronts, I've only done approx 4k miles on them.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

How warm are the tyres getting? its getting to the point where its getting too warm for winters (however it was -2 yesterday morning but about +10 driving home last night) :wall:

Obviously air / road temperature are going to be an issue but i would have thought that a car with a decent amount of poke would generate a fair bit of heat itself.

Know when i put my winters on in October we than had a barmy few days one weekend when we went and did Butter Tub pass and a few miles in i could tell the grip had dropped off as i got a bit of warmth in them......


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## donnyboy (Oct 27, 2005)

Bit of an update.

I cleaned the car at the weekend. It was much dirtier than the wifes car that had done similar miles. Which wasn't many. When washing the sides I noticed that the soap was losing its lather on the doors, like the way it does with some tyre dressings. This wasn't tyre dressing though. It felt oily to the touch where it had built up on the edge of the side skirts.

It took a couple of passes with the sponge to shift it. It must be some sort of oily substance from the roads. Could it be theres a build up of salt etc on the roads that are making them so greasy?

I'll keep an eye on it this week.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

donnyboy said:


> Bit of an update.
> 
> I cleaned the car at the weekend. It was much dirtier than the wifes car that had done similar miles. Which wasn't many. When washing the sides I noticed that the soap was losing its lather on the doors, like the way it does with some tyre dressings. This wasn't tyre dressing though. It felt oily to the touch where it had built up on the edge of the side skirts.
> 
> ...


Yes, and this happens a lot at this time of year. Salt, dirt on the roads and no real rain to shift it just dampness and frost and this makes for very greasy surfaces especially when they are damp. For the first rain, they will be very greasy until the crap is shifted off of the roads.

In terms of winters, I found mine were bedded in within 100 miles of use on the Forester, providing me safe and secure handling in cold conditions on both treated and untreated roads. Through over a foot of snow, they (Dunlop Wintersport 4D) really came into their own and the car was ploughing snow from the front lip and still making good progress. For me, they were at their most useful when the weather was severe and when driving along roads that are not treated and regularly covered in frost and ice.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Interestingly under 1mm of tread has come off my tyres in 7k miles of use, so they also look like they are going to last several winters - but they'll be off end of March/April when the heat properly rises as their benefit has gone at that point and being soft, they will wear away quickly.


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## donnyboy (Oct 27, 2005)

Well, tyres were crap the past couple of days on the greasy roads. Mainly just low speed stuff on roundabouts. Driving normally of straight lines was ok.

Today in the rain they were better. On corners and pulling out of junctions.

Must just be the grease/build up on the roads causing problems.


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