# The next level of paint cleansing...Iron Cut



## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

Hi guys and gals! So I've had the honor of being the first kid on this side of the planet to try out a new product that I think is the next level in paint cleansing. It's called _Iron Cut_ and I think it should be on the market about mid-April. It's an iron-removing cleaner that's pH neutral so unless there's something that I don't know, it's safe for paint and rims of all kinds. So here's what it can do >>

I gave the wife's car a Spring cleaning about 2 weeks ago (clay, polish, wax, the works) and used a new wax on the roof that I wanted to observe for durability. After just 5 washes the sheeting of this wax had started to dwindle so naturally I was a bit upset. Anyway, this isn't about the wax. My wife insists on parking next to the railroad tracks, despite my threats of never washing her car again (and she wonders why I won't buy her a new car...).

The Iron Cut arrived in the mail and I gave the wife's car a thorough washing and of course there was 0 sheeting/beading on the roof. After drying I sprayed IC on one half of the roof and then sat back and enjoyed the show . After just a few seconds I could see little purple squiggly things all over the paint, which meant that it was working... I think I left it on for about 5 minutes total and then washed it off with water. It smells like fart-water BTW (strong sulfur smell!).

After rinsing the roof off I was very happy with what I saw... the sheeting from my test wax came back . Yeah!! When I felt the surface with a rubber glove it was smooth as silk once again. Nice . OK I'm not one that cares (personally) about wax durability, but this stuff brought back the sheeting action on a wax that I'd written off as crap and it did it with zero effort. Here's some pics of what I saw >>

I know it's a bit hard to see here, but the right side has been cleaned and the sheeting has returned. The left side is still contaminated.










Here's what it looks like in action on the left side of the car... cool .



















Smeared it in a bit with my rubber glove to ensure coverage.




























Of course all the purple stuff came off but I didn't get a picture of that as it's not really that important. What is important is that even after claying this stuff still removes contaminants from the paint that we would normally just ignore and proceed with polishing. IOW, it removes contaminants that would normally be polished into the paint. OK in my case it wasn't immediately after claying, but after application I felt nothing on the surface, which means other that what the IC removed there wasn't anything else on the finish.

I'm pretty sure that this will become a standard procedure for me in paint cleansing from now on. I just hope they keep the price reasonable because one can go through a load of this stuff in a jiffy because it's great for wheels too.

- Jesse


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## shine247 (Mar 1, 2010)

Where does IC originate. Could you post a picture of the pack and a few details.


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

shine247 said:


> Where does IC originate. Could you post a picture of the pack and a few details.


It's going to come from Aquartz, but I don't think there's even a label for it yet !


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## shine247 (Mar 1, 2010)

Korea then! See how it goes


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## toni (Oct 30, 2005)

Sounds good, somewhat similar to FK's Decontamination Kit. What puzzles me, is how it can be PH neutral yet attack metal particles?!

On the other hand it wouldn't be the first product I've seen marketed as PH neutral, yet have a high alkalinity 

Thanks for the review Jesse :thumb:


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Jesse, bit confused, what type of product is it? Does it do the job of a clay or a polish, or is like an aggressive apc?


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

Hi Jesse 
thanks for yor quick review, you didnt mention what it did to your wife wheel!
pls report.
about the questions here, it is pH neutral 7 pH, how it works, this is the whole secret 
we will start distributing this from 15th Apr. , prices will be reasonble Jesse, dont worry!
Iron Cut working on the hard deep contaminants that clay dont remove , it dissolves the sintered iron by forming a water soluble iron complex.

any questions are welcome

cheers


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Very interesting mate, there's similair products out there but would be keen to try this one to see if it actually performs any better! Thanks for posting :thumb:


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

Blazebro said:


> Jesse, bit confused, what type of product is it? Does it do the job of a clay or a polish, or is like an aggressive apc?


So this is the after clay "next level" because most clays, even aggressive ones, won't remove those tiny iron particles, but this does and like Avi said, it's pH neutral so pretty much risk-free. Works great on wheels too! I sprayed some on my wife's wheel and after about 5 minutes rinsed it off and it was totally clean.



Clark said:


> Very interesting mate, there's similair products out there but would be keen to try this one to see if it actually performs any better! Thanks for posting :thumb:


Cheers buddy, I've not tried "the other" stuff yet, but I think this will be a staple part of my polishing prep from now on...


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

dont autosmart do something like this, fallout remover I think they call it


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

phobia said:


> dont autosmart do something like this, fallout remover I think they call it


Don't know, but if they do I'm surprised no one's used it for paint yet. I mean, if rail dust fallout is the problem then this is a much better solution than claying... no friction, no scratching.


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

for what its worth it doesnt replace claying, from what i was told is that its just for removal of heavy deposits and claying is still needed as its for metal based fallout only.

bottom of the page here.http://www.autosmart.co.uk/Exterior Cleaners.html

Might go and get some 2 morrow to give it a go.


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

phobia said:


> for what its worth it doesnt replace claying, from what i was told is that its just for removal of heavy deposits and claying is still needed as its for metal based fallout only.
> 
> bottom of the page here.http://www.autosmart.co.uk/Exterior Cleaners.html
> 
> Might go and get some 2 morrow to give it a go.


No of course it won't replace claying, but it's odd that nobody uses this! Also, I don't think that it would completely replace a rim cleaner either as it has no degreasing properties. In my case the wheel was rather grease/road film-free, but I'd like to try some more out on a dirtier rim.


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

phobia said:


> for what its worth it doesnt replace claying, from what i was told is that its just for removal of heavy deposits and claying is still needed as its for metal based fallout only.
> 
> bottom of the page here.http://www.autosmart.co.uk/Exterior Cleaners.html
> 
> Might go and get some 2 morrow to give it a go.


I think you didnt get the point, Iron Cut is pH neutral, 7 pH !. the autosmart is hard acid ! 
http://www.autosmart.co.uk/images/P...H sheets/FALLOUT REMOVER - SDS10246 - GBR.pdf look carefully in the MSDS : 2 ph ! , nothing to compare. , i think you should be very carefull while working with it!


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

Aquartz said:


> I think you didnt get the point, Iron Cut is pH neutral, 7 pH !. the autosmart is hard acid !
> http://www.autosmart.co.uk/images/P...H sheets/FALLOUT REMOVER - SDS10246 - GBR.pdf look carefully in the MSDS : 2 ph ! , nothing to compare. , i think you should be very carefull while working with it!


Good catch, I didn't notice that!


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## JMAPUK (Feb 13, 2010)

Aquartz said:


> I think you didnt get the point, Iron Cut is pH neutral, 7 pH !. the autosmart is hard acid !
> http://www.autosmart.co.uk/images/P...H sheets/FALLOUT REMOVER - SDS10246 - GBR.pdf look carefully in the MSDS : 2 ph ! , nothing to compare. , i think you should be very carefull while working with it!


So is this product coming to the UK, and do we had any sort of price ??

Looks pretty good though :thumb:


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Aquartz said:


> I think you didnt get the point, Iron Cut is pH neutral, 7 pH !. the autosmart is hard acid !
> http://www.autosmart.co.uk/images/P...H sheets/FALLOUT REMOVER - SDS10246 - GBR.pdf look carefully in the MSDS : 2 ph ! , nothing to compare. , i think you should be very carefull while working with it!


Whats the MSDS for Iron Cut? I don;t understand how it can be pH neutral and still attack particles, it must have a slight hint of something to it?


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

Spoony said:


> Whats the MSDS for Iron Cut? I don;t understand how it can be pH neutral and still attack particles, it must have a slight hint of something to it?


The first time I tested the pH value I got around 6 I think? But then I tested it again and let the paper dry and sure enough, it was neutral. I'm no chemist but my guess is that perhaps it's a chemical that speeds up the decay of iron and other metals that don't have any protective coating like paint or chrome (???).


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

Aquartz said:


> I think you didnt get the point, Iron Cut is pH neutral, 7 pH !. the autosmart is hard acid !
> http://www.autosmart.co.uk/images/P...H sheets/FALLOUT REMOVER - SDS10246 - GBR.pdf look carefully in the MSDS : 2 ph ! , nothing to compare. , i think you should be very carefull while working with it!


operative word in the msds sheet being conc. meaning concentrate solution, its acid as with autoglym's fallout remover and car brite fallout remover.

I have tested some alledgedly ph neutral products and in there concentrate form it a load of tosh, but when diluted to the ratio's stated they then become ph neutral, now I am no chemist but I do think that most products diluted with tap water will become neutral if the ratio is correct.

Obviously we dont know whether the iron cut is ready to use or is concentrate, if its ready to use it will most probably be a diluted ph1 or 2 because that is what oxalic acid is and from looking at a few of the product msds sheets that are already on the market, that is what this stuff is..


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

phobia said:


> operative word in the msds sheet being conc. meaning concentrate solution, its acid as with autoglym's fallout remover and car brite fallout remover.
> 
> I have tested some alledgedly ph neutral products and in there concentrate form it a load of tosh, but when diluted to the ratio's stated they then become ph neutral, now I am no chemist but I do think that most products diluted with tap water will become neutral if the ratio is correct.
> 
> Obviously we dont know whether the iron cut is ready to use or is concentrate, if its ready to use it will most probably be a diluted ph1 or 2 because that is what oxalic acid is and from looking at a few of the product msds sheets that are already on the market, that is what this stuff is..


two things,
1: its ready to use product, yes, not concentrated.and it will be between 6~7 pH
i see you know better then me my product, without even see it , very good!
maybe you want to sell it also , instead of me? )
2: Iron Cut is not Oxalic acid.


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

As I said I am no chemist, and not wanting to start a slanging match regarding anyones products, as you have stated it is ready to use, obviously the solution is weak compared to the amount of water or what ever it is diluted with, if it comes out at 7 then all well and good but what would its concentrate ph be in comparison with the others, that is the point being made, also if it is not oxalic acid what is it, I cant recall me saying that i knew your product better than you and if an msds sheet is available and it is good stuff and better than the equivalent over here then the answer to your question is yes i would like to sell it on for you, good stuff deserves a place on the market but the all important data sheet is needed.

Sorry if my post seems to offend you but what you have to realise is that concentrate and ready to use will be different ph values.


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## StiggeV (Mar 27, 2010)

Thanks for the review Jesse! :thumb:


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## Auto Detox (Dec 22, 2007)

Interesting, thanks for posting this up. would be interested in trying some of this myself


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

you can start testing or using from around 15th Apr. 
soon... very soon..


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## Chris_4536 (Sep 20, 2006)

Clever Nickname said:


> The first time I tested the pH value I got around 6 I think? But then I tested it again and let the paper dry and sure enough, it was neutral. I'm no chemist but my guess is* that perhaps it's a chemical that speeds up the decay of iron and other metals that don't have any protective coating like paint or chrome (???).*


Great on stonechips then!!!


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## catch the pigeo (May 17, 2008)

Chris_4536 said:


> Great on stonechips then!!!


Water and air are great on stonechips to


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## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

I'm confused, a pH 7.0 product will remove metal particulates, how?

Most car wash soaps are pH 7.0 they wont remove metal particles. The product I've used for this purpose have been an acid followed by an alkaline as a netrelizer


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

which is what i tried stating but abuse and sarcasm came my way


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## RobRX8 (Feb 14, 2010)

might be interesting to stick a bit of litmus on the purple sulfur compound


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## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

The system I use -

ValuGard Decontamination System comprises:

1. Acid Neutralizer - "A" (Triethanolamine (TEA) pH10.0) removes waxes, storage stains, and any acids which may have been deposited on the paint surface, , an 8:1 solution concentrate /distilled water; allow to dwell for 5-7 minutes before rinsing.

2. Alkaline Neutralizer - "B" (Sulphuric and Oxalic acids (a very strong acid solution ) removes alkaline deposits and ferrous metal fallout, (rail dust).
, which deep clean painted surfaces to remove alkaline deposits and safely dissolve the ferrous metal particles, bond with the paint so that they can be rinsed away. Allow product to dwell for 5-7 minutes, works well with detailer's clay to remove contaminants. All necessary safety precautions should be taken whilst using this product (Safety glasses, gloves) Avoid generation of dust.

3. Detail Wash - "C" premium 128:1 concentrate car wash solution, excellent for everyday use, and also the final step in the Neutralization Process, which ensures any chemical residues, are neutralized and rinsed away.

MSDS - http://www.valugard.net/cms/xramp/MaterialSafetyDataSheets/tabid/73/Default.aspx


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

TOGWT said:


> I'm confused, a pH 7.0 product will remove metal particulates, how?
> 
> Most car wash soaps are pH 7.0 they wont remove metal particles. The product I've used for this purpose have been an acid followed by an alkaline as a netrelizer


Dunno, Jon... the only thing I can figure is that it's some sort of rust accelerator? It does produce a very strong pigment (purple) and iron oxide is used to dye different things so... Other than that, I'm stumped too .


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## spurgen (Aug 13, 2008)

Sonax Xtreme Wheel cleaner also turns a similar purple/red when reacting to brake dust (which I believe is mostly iron) and is also ph neutral. Could there be similar chemistry behind this product?


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

TOGWT said:


> I'm confused, a pH 7.0 product will remove metal particulates, how?
> 
> Most car wash soaps are pH 7.0 they wont remove metal particles. The product I've used for this purpose have been an acid followed by an alkaline as a netrelizer


I am guessing that it will be a neutralised acid salt.

To remove metal contamination in this way, you would generally need an acid and the smell and effects of this product suggest an original acid content (sulphur smell suggests sulphuric acid - brick cleaner - etc). If it is pH neutral is it simply likely that the acid will have been neutralised.

From my experience of neutralised acid salts, they are less aggressive than low pH 'true' acids, but obviously they can be a bit safer due to the neutrality.


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## ALANSHR (Jun 29, 2007)

Looks good but surely it will have stripped the wax off and the sheeting is just simply because there are no contaminants and the surface is clean and flat?


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

ALANSHR said:


> Looks good but surely it will have stripped the wax off and the sheeting is just simply because there are no contaminants and the surface is clean and flat?


Since its a pre-clay step , you might have think that wax is going to be removed anyway, although it doesnt have any degreaser components inside.

about other idea's people wrote here, well... im not a chemist myself,and my english is not so good also, i just can say its between 6 ~7 pH , closly to 7pH , and it makes chemical reaction with iron or metal particles contact.
and as DoDo Factory said , yes, it has Organic sulfur compounds in it.

i think you guys better focus on the results and effect its doing, then trying to find how its made... its a detailing Forum no?


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

LOL, this is what the guys here are like Mr Aquartz. They have a keen and curious nature 

As ever, it is always best to see what the product does than try to work out how it works.


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

Dodo Factory said:


> I am guessing that it will be a neutralised acid salt.
> 
> To remove metal contamination in this way, you would generally need an acid and the smell and effects of this product suggest an original acid content (sulphur smell suggests sulphuric acid - brick cleaner - etc). If it is pH neutral is it simply likely that the acid will have been neutralised.
> 
> From my experience of neutralised acid salts, they are less aggressive than low pH 'true' acids, but obviously they can be a bit safer due to the neutrality.


Yeah, there's definitely sulfur in it... my truck still smells like I've been dyeing chicks' hair in the back of it .


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

Thanks for the Support DoDo !
Jesse, we'll try working on the smell, but for the meantime its something that cant be changed. you need to choose remove irons with bad smell or leaving them with good smell :thumb:


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## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

Clever Nickname said:


> Yeah, there's definitely sulfur in it... my truck still smells like I've been dyeing chicks' hair in the back of it .


Chemistry 101, its been a long, long time.

Dom is correct neutralization is the reaction between an acid and a base, producing a salt and neutralized base (neutralized salt); common examples include acetic acid and sulphuric acid (hence the smell of sulphur


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2010)

Dodo Factory said:


> I am guessing that it will be a neutralised acid salt.
> 
> To remove metal contamination in this way, you would generally need an acid and the smell and effects of this product suggest an original acid content (sulphur smell suggests sulphuric acid - brick cleaner - etc). If it is pH neutral is it simply likely that the acid will have been neutralised.
> 
> From my experience of neutralised acid salts, they are less aggressive than low pH 'true' acids, but obviously they can be a bit safer due to the neutrality.


Wonder what its like on chrome, plastic and rubber trim?

I guess since its a chemical reaction with metal it will stain the chrome trim quite quickly?


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

Whats the ph of the actual chemical on the car once it has reacted,does it alter?

Not that it bothers me, im not one of these who are ph neutral mad. IMO if a product works then it works and the ph doesnt really matter but i always like to understand how a product works. 

Too many people are influenced by the words ph neutral. Thats ok if your applying a chemical to your skin but paint and skin are 2 very different things.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2010)

Unless you are concerned about trim, which gets stained and damaged by corrosive chemicals that is.

After all, why damage things with corrosive products if you dont need to? 

:thumb:

(Unless of course you can afford to damage trim and replace it all the time?)


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

I think the point The Doc is making is that even stuff that isn't pH neutral doesn't necessarily have to damage/stain/dissolve trim, rubber or sensitive finishes.

It is highly dependent on the nature of the individual products involved. For example, concentrated acid with a pH close to 0 won't affect certain plastics at all, whereas even WATER (pH 7) will turn ferrous metals into that nasty disfiguring and destructive coating we call ferrous oxide.

pH neutral is, like a lot of consumer selling points, a vast generalisation. It needs to be simple for a customer to 'get it' quite quickly as a concept, but it isn't an absolute. Whilst many pH neutral products are a safer bet on sensitive materials and finishes, it is best not to treat it as an absolute rule.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2010)

I agree, but prefer safe rather than sorry approach :thumb:

Its also why I asked if its trim safe, just because its near ph dosnt mean it will be safe to chrome trim does it :thumb:

The problem is, you might not see the damage caused because it might take weeks/months for the corrosion to actually show up.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

FinishKare already sell a product that works along the same lines


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

True, it has some weird code and is called 'Fallout remover' or something.


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

Interesting post as ever Jesse, thankyou..stick in in my parcel lol


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

Dodo Factory said:


> I think the point The Doc is making is that even stuff that isn't pH neutral doesn't necessarily have to damage/stain/dissolve trim, rubber or sensitive finishes.
> 
> It is highly dependent on the nature of the individual products involved.


Exactly the point i was making. You can have a product that is highly alkaline yet will not stain or mark trims. There are different ways around it one of them are special inhibiters.

For what its worth i have used the Autosmart fallout Remover on many cars and it is Oxalic Acid based yet it will not mark or stain trim when used correctly. It even says on the label that it is safe on the paintwork and the trim yet its not ph neutral.

Matt,whilst on the subject of ph values have you managed to remember which AS product states its ph neutral yet its coshh sheet says its ph 13 because i have been through them all and cannot find such a product.


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## alex12 (Feb 24, 2010)

It sounds promising


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Dodo Factory said:


> True, it has some weird code and is called 'Fallout remover' or something.


Similar but fall out removers are old old news (been around for yonks before i ever started out) the finishKare one is a two part system, John (epoc) done a review on it on here a year or two ago :thumb:

Its very good gear.


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## MattDuffy88 (Apr 6, 2009)

I could do with some of this stuff, Dads car gets covered in industrial fallout due to working near a casting company and engineering companies.


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

james b said:


> Similar but fall out removers are old old news (been around for yonks before i ever started out) the finishKare one is a two part system, John (epoc) done a review on it on here a year or two ago :thumb:
> 
> Its very good gear.


Its like the old system as well, but the only added a alkalie step.


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

The Doctor said:


> Whats the ph of the actual chemical on the car once it has reacted,does it alter?
> 
> Not that it bothers me, im not one of these who are ph neutral mad. IMO if a product works then it works and the ph doesnt really matter but i always like to understand how a product works.
> 
> Too many people are influenced by the words ph neutral. Thats ok if your applying a chemical to your skin but paint and skin are 2 very different things.


Hi Doc.... EXACTLY !!! , you just wrote here the exact words i was trying to say here.


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

matt1263 said:


> Unless you are concerned about trim, which gets stained and damaged by corrosive chemicals that is.
> 
> After all, why damage things with corrosive products if you dont need to?
> 
> ...


Iron Cut will not damage any rubbers , trims, plastics, whats so ever, just rinse well before its dried, thats it.


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

Their is washing soaps with a ph 3,5, your under life dont get damage, eh?


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2010)

Aquartz said:


> ... its a detailing Forum no?


Correct, which is why people want to understand the product.


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

matt1263 said:


> Wonder what its like on chrome, plastic and rubber trim?
> 
> I guess since its a chemical reaction with metal it will stain the chrome trim quite quickly?


About Chrome trim, yes ,it could damage chrome , you will need to masken tape it. although some Chrome are coated with PU(PolyUrethane), the best is to try it on small spot to see how it react.


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

DaKine said:


> Correct, which is why people want to understand the product.


if you want to understand the product , maybe the best way is to try it , no?


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## Bence (Dec 21, 2006)

The most professional 3-step systems like the FK Decon or the AutoInt Valugard are more then 10 years old.

1Z and Riwax even make mildly acidic polishes (Blizzard and C3 Lackreiniger) which can remove fallout and polish the surface in 1-step. The acid-package is usually oxalic acid. Only the FK uses a different acid, because they find that OA can be detrimental on a paint matrix on a long term. 

Besides, I like to understand a product before I let it the proximity of my cars. Prosumer detailers with the necessary insights are NOT pharma mouses...


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## jyrkiboy (Oct 4, 2007)

Got delivery from AQuartz today with Iron Cut so I had to make quick test to my winter rims. There are some brakedust baked in to rims and this is the place to make a test.

First shot of the rim, note the brakedust. Not much but surface is rough


One spitz, note clear Iron Cut start to react with brakedust and turns to purple


After two minutes


After 5 min hose and wash with MF mitt


Still wet and shiny


The result, wow I am happy


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## Oakey22 (Feb 12, 2010)

do you not think it has reacted with the uncoated alloy? look where the scuff is, looks to be turning rusty.


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## jyrkiboy (Oct 4, 2007)

My rims are over 10 years old and those are not in best condition anyway. Just focus on that small spot (arrow). 

Alloy do not get rust.


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

The rust is metal contamination from the brake pads/discs that have stuck into the clearcoated finish of the alloy wheel. It could be clayed off, or removed with an acid wheel cleaner, but jyrki's test shows the decon solution is doing a similar job


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Fallout or rail spikes are small metal fillings. Most cars that live there life's around heavy industrial areas or railway station can pick these up more readily.
This is the same as for metal particles from you braking system. Steel normally ferrous metals are remove while braking and these come in contact with the wheels and bond to the surface as they are warm on contact. Once moisture becomes present these small shards of metal stand up and self drill into your paint finish or your wheels.

Where clay will shear off the metal from above the surface it will not remove the small proportion that had buried itself in your paint. So it is quite common for these small metal particles to cause small round orange circle where the ferrous metal is still present. This will continue till the particle is completely eroded away.

People use fallout removers to first destroy the metal poetical with acid based product. But this then must be neutralised with an alkaline wash, then followed by a neutral wash solution once more.

Unfortunately Acid based wheel cleaners do not have this ability to remove fallout. As although the PH of the wheel cleaner can be low. It is the make up of the acid and strength that is paramount.

Gordon.


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Surely some acid wheel cleaners can? Technically speaking, there must be some strong enough? Wonder Wheels?


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Where wonder wheels has a very low PH. the chemical composition of the acid mearly attacks the damage areas of of the paint. This can be cause with the chemical reaction of the brake dust when it comes into contact with moisture. Brake dust in itself is highly corrosive by nature. But more commonly caused by UV damage to the clear coat or paint finish. Wonder wheels will eventually damage the wheels surface over a prolonged period of time. But had not got enough strength to dissolve iron ore. Once the metal particle has been dissolved or remove this to could cause wonder wheel to damage the wheel face further due to it gaining access though the upper surface.
Gordon.


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

I am just wondering about the differences in acids/strengths of acids being used in wheel cleaners and in fallout removers - I would just presume *some* overlap, but appreciate that wheel cleaners will normally be weaker in effect.


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## spurgen (Aug 13, 2008)

Oakey22 said:


> do you not think it has reacted with the uncoated alloy? look where the scuff is, looks to be turning rusty.


Yes noticed that too. Curbed area went from silver to brown...


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## jyrkiboy (Oct 4, 2007)

and its grey again, will post photo later today.


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## jyrkiboy (Oct 4, 2007)

Members of jury I'll give to you

Evidence number one


And number two


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## -Ally- (Mar 6, 2009)

Dodo Factory said:


> Surely some acid wheel cleaners can? Technically speaking, there must be some strong enough? Wonder Wheels?


Having not used wonder wheels or your acid based wheel cleaner - mellow yellow ?, I wonder if you have compared both product and can comment on just how much stronger the wonder wheels actually is ?

My wheels are in a bad way, not sure anything short of a refurb will ever get them the way I want them anyway but just thught it'd ask.

Any help appreciated as I have never used an acid wheel cleaner before if im honest.

Ally


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## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

For badly soiled surfaces us P21S-Red (422) or Sonax Wheel Cleaner both are formulated with neutralised acid salt

*Sonax Wheel Cleaner full effect*

The best of both worlds; the cleaning power of an acid wheel cleaner with a (safe) pH of 7.5 by using a neutralised acid salt; neutralization is the reaction between an acid and a base (alkaline) producing a salt and neutralized base; common examples include acetic acid and sulphuric acid (hence the red colour, which is a chemical reaction (oxidisation) with the metal particles) forming a miscible emulsion that can be rinsed away and the smell (sulphur) It starts off green, then red and then to blood red, leave it on for a minute, agitate and rinse.


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

Well, to all people who has slightly hesitate about Iron Cut acidity :









7pH and i can promise much less bad smell than the sample Jesse has tested,
the Iron Cut is ready for sell now, so anyone who wants to test it 
is more than welcome.


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

I've sent you a pm about some wheels which need a bit of a tidy up.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

RobRX8 said:


> might be interesting to stick a bit of litmus on the purple sulfur compound


If the MSDS can be posted, I'll tell you exactly what is causing the purple staining, I've got a sneaky suspicion it will be potassium based, more than likely KMnO4 which will be producing the sulfur smell from the iron as it oxidises.


Aquartz said:


> Well, to all people who has slightly hesitate about Iron Cut acidity :
> 7pH and i can promise much less bad smell than the sample Jesse has tested,
> the Iron Cut is ready for sell now, so anyone who wants to test it
> is more than welcome.


What is the pH of the product when it has attacked the metal contamination?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

BUMP. 
Any news from the retailer? I'm really interested to know as I'm curious as to whether the resulting MSDS will provide information as to what it contains and if it's legal to go down UK drains and isn't actually a marine pollutant.


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

bigmc said:


> BUMP.
> Any news from the retailer? I'm really interested to know as I'm curious as to whether the resulting MSDS will provide information as to what it contains and if it's legal to go down UK drains and isn't actually a marine pollutant.


Sorry for my late response
Aquartz contain NON-HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCES , one of the components is Ammonium thioglycolate.
we suggest not to drain the IC in Sewers and waterways if thats what you meant. 
although any wheel cleaner or other cleaners recommand that also.
FK1 :
http://www.fk1usa.com/MSDS/883MSDS.pdf
which are not pH neutral solutions.

to get our complete MSDS you are welcome to buy IC and test it.

about your question whats the pH in contact with the irons, you need to rinse it anyway with water to clean the surface so it will be the same pH as water ,7pH.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Aquartz said:


> Sorry for my late response
> Aquartz contain NON-HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCES , one of the components is Ammonium thioglycolate.
> we suggest not to drain the IC in Sewers and waterways if thats what you meant.
> although any wheel cleaner or other cleaners recommand that also.
> ...


Your understanding of chemistry is poor! If you can't provide an MSDS to support your claims good luck with the environmental agency. I wouldn't buy IC as anything that reacts with ferrous sulphides to create a sulphurous odour contains either hydrochloric or sulphuric acid at a quite high molar concentration, I work for a multinational chemical manufacturer so understand what reaction is occuring.


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

bigmc said:


> Your understanding of chemistry is poor! If you can't provide an MSDS to support your claims good luck with the environmental agency. I wouldn't buy IC as anything that reacts with ferrous sulphides to create a sulphurous odour contains either hydrochloric or sulphuric acid at a quite high molar concentration, I work for a multinational chemical manufacturer so understand what reaction is occuring.


Dear Nick, i never said im a chemist or intend to be, 
check your email
you got our IC MSDS

cheers
Avi


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Thanks for the swift service Avi.
Iron Cut arrived safe and sound today.
Will keep you informed as to my thoughts and findings.
Aquartz & Aquart+ are doing well and from early test looks like a well put together system, with nice added benefits.
Once I get my car back from the garage, problems with the EGR module.
Gordon.


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## SteveOC (May 26, 2007)

I've read through this thread and looked on the website but I can't find any of the following information, unless I missed it:

How much is the product?

How do you purchase it?

What quantities is the product available in (it says how much to use per car but not how much you get for the money)?

How long does shipping take, i.e. is the product shipped direct from the factory in Korea, or via the office in Cyprus, or do you hold stock there etc?

Steve O.

A search came up with this thread which answers most of my questions :

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=165411


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## hayley1 (Mar 11, 2010)

i need to get some of this stuff!!


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

SteveOC said:


> I've read through this thread and looked on the website but I can't find any of the following information, unless I missed it:
> 
> How much is the product?
> 
> ...


Dear Steve
in the meantime you can purchase this only directly from us, soon it will be availble thru a detailers webshop.
if you want it direct pls PM me
cheers
Avi


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

Hey Caledonia - nice choice on the Aquartz
My samples arrived from Avi exactly when he said they would. 
Did my first test with IC on my daily driver - white 1995 toyota hilux which doesnt get much TLC. has alot of fallout on it
I washed it in a way most here wouldnt agree with because I'm all out of quality wash mitts and dont have a working foam gun atm

afterwards - sprayed on the IC quite sparingly and agitated with a wet sponge, then spray on a fraction more IC
after 5 mins, surface still wet. shampoo washed the area and rinsed off
The feel after the panel dried was amazing but most of all, the colour of the paint actually improved by about 20%. it was like I had washed with a wax rich shampoo

Also I did test the PH of the liquid in the bottle) with my pool testing strips (tests for bromide, PPM, PH and one other) and got 7.0 ph

My FK1 decon set arrived also and whilst this will remove more stuff than IC (silicone, wax, oxidation, water spots), for a liquid based fallout remover, its light years ahead of those ancient oxalic acid based gels, powders and liquids.


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

Hi Matt
im glad you are happy ,:thumb:
did you take some pictures? like before and after?


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## takemetothepub (Feb 5, 2010)

Very interesting product, will have to get me some.


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

Aquartz said:


> Hi Matt
> im glad you are happy ,:thumb:
> did you take some pictures? like before and after?


not at the time. but I most certainly will do pics and some video on the aquartz set in coming days


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Dont forget Aquartz group buy http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=165411


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## Markus (Nov 27, 2007)

> this promotion deal will be until 5th May. 2 weeks.


The group buy is closed, isn't it??


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

Hi Markus

i can make an exception, if you want to buy the kit , please PM me
cheers
Avi


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## quattrogmbh (May 15, 2007)

My Iron Cut arrived today. I can't seem to find the MSDS on the Aquartz website. Any chance of posting it somewhere?

Thanks


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## Cquartz (Jan 31, 2009)

Hi, i sent you this over your email, 
tnx


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