# New AV Receiver and Speakers - Cabling advce



## StevieM3 (Sep 11, 2008)

All,

Never really had a decent speaker / amp set up but having heard a few recently decided to upgrade what I had and bought the following...not big money but hopefully will sound better than the old LG surround kit I had

Onkyo TXNR609 Black | AV Receiver | Richer Sounds

Boston SOUNDWARE XS SE White | 5.1 Speaker Package | Richer Sounds

So next thing to think about is cabling and this is where I could use some advice for anyone big on their home cinema etc.

I am a bit reluctant to start digging holes in the walls so was thinking about some flat adhesive speaker cable...anyone have any thoughts on it or are there other ways to discreetly hide speaker cables? Was thinking something i could paint over would be good hence the flat stuff.

Anyone have any recommendations for decent (but not expensive) cable? Cheap places to shop??

Cheers
Steve


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## Craigylad (Aug 25, 2011)

Hi, nice purchase onkyo 609 amp is excellent my best selling amp of 2011 , the speakers dont really need a heavy gage of cable so my recommendations would be -

Qed micro usually at £2/m small not flat but easy to run and hide
Qed xtc usually £4/m a little thicker not flat but white 

You could also look at adhesive trunking might look a bit neater 

Cheers 
Craig


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## StevieM3 (Sep 11, 2008)

Cheers....was thinking I might have needed heavier cable....totally new to this stuff so appreciate the advice.

Steve


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## Craigylad (Aug 25, 2011)

No problem cables are a very important part of the system but it has to be with in reason to the total spend of system I would usually say between 10-15% of total system cost should be spent on cables (hdmi speaker cables sub cable and anything else) 

hope you enjoy the system


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## jamest (Apr 8, 2008)

I have this stuff for my cables - http://www.maplin.co.uk/white-1-4-sphere-decorative-discreet-cable-management-solution-220582

Does the job and easy to fit. Need to buy corner bits separately though.


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## cobra (Feb 18, 2012)

this is where i get my hifi cables from:
http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk

I use vandamme blue 2.5mm - studio quality for about £2.50 a metre. the hifi brands are excellent at adding cost to what is just copper cable!

the QED mentioned has a very small cross section of copper and IMHO i would avoid

if you cant go under the carpet look at D link trunking - TLC direct and b and Q stock - then use VD blue!

with an AV amp i would recommend getting banana plugs to ensure you do not short the amp - somthing like these will be fine:
http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/2153/fisual-easy-fix-banana-plugs-4-pack

enjoy your new system


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## andystuff1971 (Jan 16, 2011)

As above, vd blue is good stuff.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

What about silver anniversary XT , this is quite small like micro as said but can easily be run discreetly when compared to some of the chord cabling etc. This is biwire is im currently doing mine as we speak but worth a look and not mega expensive as some.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Sorry just reread and you said flat.......


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## mercboy (Jan 31, 2008)

my uncle worked in high end audio sales for years,he had a £15k speaker,amp,turntable setup 30 years ago.he used normal twin 2.5 copper solid cable that is used to wire house sockets to bi wire his speakers.nothing better dont believe advertising hype


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## Dan J (Jun 18, 2008)

I use gale electronics Hyper-latz 250 which is flat, cant remember how much I paid for it though.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

mercboy said:


> my uncle worked in high end audio sales for years,he had a £15k speaker,amp,turntable setup 30 years ago.he used normal twin 2.5 copper solid cable that is used to wire house sockets to bi wire his speakers.nothing better dont believe advertising hype


I agree (although I wouldn't choose solid cable). At speaker signal levels, the cable choice makes far less difference than for interconnects. In my opinion there isn't really any discernible difference between an expensive speaker cable and the cheap ones so long as the CSA of the cable is the same.

If you want something with a name on it, then Van Damme speaker cable is relatively cheap, but used in almost every professional application (studios, productions etc.). Farnell sell it by the meter 

Copper is copper.


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## cobra (Feb 18, 2012)

"A (allegedly true) story that may be of interest...

At a hi-fi show a few years ago, one high-end manufacturer (I have an idea it was Quad, but don't quote me on that) turned up to find that while they had brought all the kit, they had forgotten to bring any speaker cables. A member of staff was sent out to buy some, which he did, and they were duly installed.

The visitors to the demo room were very impressed, both by the sound of the system and by the very snazzy-looking orange speaker cables. Numerous punters asked about the cables, which were a type they hadn't seen before, but the staff manning the demo refused to reveal anything about them...

Where had these marvellous bits of wire come from? The local DIY superstore - they were Black and Decker 13A mains extension cables.

As CJROSS quite rightly points out, the only thing that matters with speaker cable is that there is enough cross-sectional area - the thicker the cable, the better. Esoteric expensive cables with bizarre construction can sound "different" from cheap bog-standard copper, but they do it by filtering the sound due to strange combinations of capacitance and inductance - if your intention is to get accurate reproduction, they aren't what you need. A decent, simple, copper cable is all you need to get the best from your equipment, and £2 a metre is more than enough to buy this. "

from: http://www.avforums.com/forums/inte...e-speaker-cable-like-hdmi-marketing-ploy.html

As HiFi is so expensive, speaker cable has become like the new weekend purchase, like a new wax is to detailing - just because you need to add something to your collection this week!


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## Craigylad (Aug 25, 2011)

There is lots of good cable out there something between £2-£6 would be more than adequate for your system. 

I have had a lot of my customers swear by mains cable then I lend them some proper cables and they usually buy them. But each to there own.


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## Craigylad (Aug 25, 2011)

cobra said:


> "A (allegedly true) story that may be of interest...
> 
> At a hi-fi show a few years ago, one high-end manufacturer (I have an idea it was Quad, but don't quote me on that) turned up to find that while they had brought all the kit, they had forgotten to bring any speaker cables. A member of staff was sent out to buy some, which he did, and they were duly installed.
> 
> ...


Ok I have had this chat with a few customers without getting in to the technical detail which most of us don't care about. I let customers listen to the difference in speaker cable interconnects or any cable and they can decide for them self.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Craigylad said:


> Ok I have had this chat with a few customers without getting in to the technical detail which most of us don't care about. I let customers listen to the difference in speaker cable interconnects or any cable and they can decide for them self.


Sounds fair


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## Phil H (May 14, 2006)

As Marc (Heavenly) said QED Silver Ann.. XT cable. I have 3 different types of QED cable and can highly recommend it.

Also i have just got some of this for another set of speakers, very very impressive:

http://www.quantumav.co.uk/accessories/qe1305.html


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## Ric (Feb 4, 2007)

Whatever you do don't be taken in by 60quid hdmi cables


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## jamest (Apr 8, 2008)

carbonangel said:


> Whatever you do don't be taken in by 60quid hdmi cables


£60!! What a steal, I'll take 6.

I have had 2 HDMI cables fail, both replaced by cheap £3-4 ones online. I seriously doubt the claims of "durability" of the £20+ cables are much if any better.


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## A210 AMG (Nov 8, 2008)

^ for the standard 1m to 1.5m length I remember on the AV forums reading about signal quality and sound etc.

There is NO difference (that you could see) for a couple of quid cable.

Its not like speaker cable or gold plated this and that. I used to be quite sad with cables and alway buy the top spec stuff. My HDMI cables however are all less that £10


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## cobra (Feb 18, 2012)

for short hdmi runs, any cheap hdmi cable will be fine - i have a couple of poundland ones that have been in use for over a year without issue. 

If you want to go longer then it would be advised to spend a little more - however if it is a very long sending over cat6 may be a better option.


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## DaveDesign (May 6, 2008)

I brought some of this in an online clearance sale, was about £5 for a 9 or 10 meter pack ( i can't remember!) very flat and an installer recomended i can stick it to the wall with dots of hot glue.

http://www.belkin.com/iwcatproductpage.process?product_id=442466

Seems nice stuff but not got round to fitting it yet!!!


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## silverback (Jun 18, 2008)

bi-wiring is an absolute load of crap imho,now bi amping is different.i was suckered in to by the bi wiring thing myself,payed a fortune for all three front speakers to be bi wired and they didnt sound any different from normally wired.it wasnt a cheap set up either.bannana plugs are an absolute must on any av setup imho.the hassle it saves later on realy is worth it.i got some cable trunking from screwfix for a bargain price,some o the prices for trunking are an absolute joke.£10 a metre is my max for front and centre speakers,and for the rears i think i went ith qed micro at about £2.50 a metre.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

If you can change them easy just buy cheap - if it's going behind a wall and a PITA to change pay some more and think about putting in two of each.

I'm away to put my 3rd HDMI cable into a false wall.....this time I've spend a reasonable amount on it!


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## cobra (Feb 18, 2012)

Bero said:


> If you can change them easy just buy cheap - if it's going behind a wall and a PITA to change pay some more and think about putting in two of each.
> 
> I'm away to put my 3rd HDMI cable into a false wall.....this time I've spend a reasonable amount on it!


If its going in the wall you might want to put conduit then you can easily change over if needed - when a new cable standard appears! or you need cat6


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## PWOOD (Apr 30, 2007)

silverback said:


> bi-wiring is an absolute load of crap imho,now bi amping is different.i was suckered in to by the bi wiring thing myself,payed a fortune for all three front speakers to be bi wired and they didnt sound any different from normally wired.it wasnt a cheap set up either.bannana plugs are an absolute must on any av setup imho.the hassle it saves later on realy is worth it.i got some cable trunking from screwfix for a bargain price,some o the prices for trunking are an absolute joke.£10 a metre is my max for front and centre speakers,and for the rears i think i went ith qed micro at about £2.50 a metre.


Sorta agree in that Biwiring is not worth it and actually causes load issues with some amps and ruins the soundstage. The jumper bars are worth replacing with decent speaker wire on a lot of loudspeakers. qed micro is rather thin and bright sounding in my experience.

My front cable is made Stering Black Mamba and is a only available in 2.5m lenghths and is thicker than my hosepipe but sounds incredible for the £70 I paid Better than the Whathifi recommended brands including some mega expensive stuff.

OP I used IXOS Flat cable which has an adheasive backing and is flat. I laid laminate flooring over mine with no problems and run it up the wall again very discrete. http://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/312/ixos-xhs233-adhesive-backed-flat-speaker-cable

More than enough strands for rears(mine are monitor audio BFX)


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## cobra (Feb 18, 2012)

agree bi-wiring is not worth it - but bi-amping is

just replacing the jumper bars with a bit of spare speaker cable is all thats required is there is only speaker stage output!


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## PWOOD (Apr 30, 2007)

cobra said:


> agree bi-wiring is not worth it - but bi-amping is
> 
> just replacing the jumper bars with a bit of spare speaker cable is all thats required is there is only speaker stage output!


Not when you are biamping an Onkyo Av Amp I have an 875 and the the image suffered a tad. I full agree that using seperate amps to bi amp sounds good.


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

For speakers any 'decent' thickness cable i.e. something rated to take the power you are going to be putting through it should work.

I always goes back to posts like this. There are many others like it. When it comes to blind tests the results are very telling

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/15412-post28.html


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

mercboy said:


> my uncle worked in high end audio sales for years,he had a £15k speaker,amp,turntable setup 30 years ago.he used normal twin 2.5 copper solid cable that is used to wire house sockets to bi wire his speakers.nothing better dont believe advertising hype





cobra said:


> "A (allegedly true) story that may be of interest...
> 
> At a hi-fi show a few years ago, one high-end manufacturer (I have an idea it was Quad, but don't quote me on that) turned up to find that while they had brought all the kit, they had forgotten to bring any speaker cables. A member of staff was sent out to buy some, which he did, and they were duly installed.
> 
> ...


Used to do mobile DJing we used black artic 2 core 2.5mm cable and made up with speakon plugs

http://www.images2.co.uk/Cable_Lead...50.html?utm_source=googleps&utm_media=organic (works out under £1 a metre)

in the home we have wired the standard hifi using 1mm 2 core flex....... if your carpeted you can pull the carpet back normally and fit the cable between the gripper bar and the skirting board (depending on how much space the carpet fitter has left)



carbonangel said:


> Whatever you do don't be taken in by 60quid hdmi cables


isnt the HDMI a digital signal? ergo no problem with the cable quality as long as the signal gets to the other end?


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

andy monty said:


> isnt the HDMI a digital signal? ergo no problem with the cable quality as long as the signal gets to the other end?


Not really. At these frequencies, the signal behaves in a very analogue way. Study some transmission line theory


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