# Help Newbie!!! Comparing Detailing Courses in England to choose which is best???



## AddictedtoBase (Sep 30, 2017)

Hello im a newbie from southern ireland im a serious detailing enthusiast who is really wanting to open his own detailing buisness i have a small bit of experiance in cleaning waxing etc but zero experiance in paint correction
Im putting up this post as i need help trying to choose which which is the best detailing course to do as i know many members on here have attended most at this stage.

I have been doing alot of research online and have narrowed it down to 3 courses so far. Now im really looking to do a course that would accelerate me the closest to being ready to open a buisness 

Slims 3 day master detailing course with an imi certification at £866 was my first choice 

The Autofinesse 5 day course at £1500 was the next on the list i could get very little info off there site abiut this course not even sure if there is a certificate?

Last but not least is KDS Keltics 5 day master detailing course at £2400 which from reading the description says is also certified? Just not sure what kind of certification it is.

It all comes down to this are all these courses roughly the same thing just priced differently? Or is there a massive difference in the level you will be qualified? im not a particularly wealthy man
So £2400 sterling really seems like alot of money to spend for 5 days comparing to slims and autofinesse its quite a step up in cost but is it worth it? is the question i want answered as kellys name rings out across this site.

Sorry for ranting on ill leave you with the main question what are the pros and cons of each course? And how does the cheaper slims course compare to the top of the line kds course?


----------



## JamesRS5 (Oct 8, 2014)

Is a certificate important to you? Are you starting a business or just a hobbyist detailer? 

£2400 buys you an awful lot of detailing equipment and some old panels from the breakers yard to practice on. There's probably not much on these courses you can't look up on YouTube and practice on an old panel.


----------



## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

JamesRS5 said:


> Is a certificate important to you? Are you starting a business or just a hobbyist detailer?
> 
> £2400 buys you an awful lot of detailing equipment and some old panels from the breakers yard to practice on. There's probably not much on these courses you can't look up on YouTube and practice on an old panel.


To be honest bud save your money and do what above has said:thumb:

5 days will not give you the experience to go out and tackle other people's cars.
It takes awhile to master machine polishing and the knowledge that is required to carry out a professional detail, but you could go on a course and come back and put that knowledge to practice before you even attempt it on a clients car:thumb: good luck:wave:


----------



## AddictedtoBase (Sep 30, 2017)

JamesRS5 said:


> Is a certificate important to you? Are you starting a business or just a hobbyist detailer?
> 
> 2400 buys you an awful lot of detailing equipment and some old panels from the breakers yard to practice on. There's probably not much on these courses you can't look up on YouTube and practice on an old panel.


Well yea my thinking is that a certification gives you something to show for your money and gives something for the customer to see and know that you know what your talking about. My plan is to eventually start my own buisness and make this my career. Yes £2400 is alot of money im just wondering if one of these courses might be a good starting platform to get you to a level where you can practice paint correction on your friends and familys cars with confidence instead of going by youtube videos in my opinion you cant beat hands on one to one teaching. Would rather save my money if kds training is going to be roughly the same level as slims?


----------



## camerashy (Feb 9, 2014)

A day or two with Matt (stangalang) at Saddleworth with set you off on the right foot and will be an invaluable experience......check him out at Obsidian Detailing.


----------



## AddictedtoBase (Sep 30, 2017)

camerashy said:


> A day or two with Matt (stangalang) at Saddleworth with set you off on the right foot and will be an invaluable experience......check him out at Obsidian Detailing.


Thanks the more im on this site the more i keep hearing that name aswell. Have you any idea what he charges per day?


----------



## Marky's (Apr 10, 2017)

AddictedtoBase said:


> Thanks the more im on this site the more i keep hearing that name aswell. Have you any idea what he charges per day?


Have you considered doing a course locally? Marc Leddy at Polished and Waxed in Belfast does a great course! I've done his beginner and advanced course and I'm pretty sure there were some guys from Longford who came up for that. I actually reviewed his beginner day for a blog I write for (not sure if I can link it here so I'll refrain).

I considered the Slim's course too, although when I contacted them last April they told me their next event wasn't until this November. Waiting 8 months wasn't an option for me.

You won't get a certificate with Marc Leddy but would be worth doing as it's good value for money. Advanced day is around £140 and I believe he does one-to-one training for around £400.

With regards to certificates, I don't think many people even realise their detailer might have a certificate, most people just want to see photos of your work. I wouldn't spend £2,400, at most I'd do the Slim's day and spend the difference on product and good insurance


----------



## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

With regards to the KDS course, I know of several people who already have their own business who have been and done that particular course, if you can find Midlands Car Care on here, he did a course involving wet sanding.
Have a look at his review of the time he spent there and what he learnt, then £2400 seems cheap considering what they will teach you during the time you are with them.

Sure the other course are equally as good and i do know stangalang does great work too. Can't remember what he told me he charges, sorry


----------



## Fentum (May 1, 2017)

I have no intention of doing detailing for a living: I am too old and fat for a start:lol:. 

However, I think the proper course would be a good idea for the OP. We lag behind our American cousins in believing in proper continued education and training. I think both budding pros and amateurs would profit from taking training from experts. 

In the OP's case, a grand or two spent on a course will set him up with basis of skills which should pay themselves back even if he decides not to pursue a career in detailing and he details only his own and friends/family's cars in the future. 

It is certainly true that experience counts above all else, but detailing is more about technique than product. 

Proper technique can be taught, as can the whys and wherefores of certain processes.

In retrospect, when I was starting out, I think had I taken the Slim's course or a day or two with stangalang, for example, it would have been money and time well spent even as an amateur to set me on the right path. 

Striking through a clear coat might end up costing £1k by itself if you muck up a rear wing or a bonnet. When you consider that a full respray is unlikely to give you much change from £3k and these courses will give skills that last for life, the costs don't seem unreasonable even though they are not enough by themselves.

Such a course won't save you from making mistakes but might save you from making costly ones!

Also, taking a course allows you to engage with people who make a living doing what the OP intends doing for a living. In my experience, the information (tacit and explicit) you get from simply talking to practitioners is massively useful, and provides you with a network to engage with if you get hung up on a particular problem.

Peter


----------



## Hoppy1888 (Oct 2, 2014)

What do the courses focus on more? 
Are they more valeting/detailing a car, machine polishing or all of it. 
It depends on what line you are wanting to go down. I would be more focussed on the machine polishing personally. 
Depending on what the course offers I’d probably go for the Slims option purely for cost. 
Once you start adding travelling costs, accommodation, meals etc it’s going to be very expensive doing 5 days and the extra cost of the course on top. 
Hopefully those 3 days will give you confidence and a solid foundation to work on allowing you to practicing your trade. It takes time to gain experience. 
Good luck, let me know which course you go for and what it’s like. 





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm sorry to say no course will or can teach anybody the art of machine polishing in 2,3,5 or even 7 days as there are 100's of different paints,then there is coatings,a minimum of 3 months is needed and that's only an introduction to detailing and some grounding to detailing.
Then there is the business side of things including the obvious i.e a business plan,insurance mobile-premises,(advertising marketing) and lead generation and getting allsorts of accreditation whether it be for ceramic coating to environmental regulations,somehow I can't see any course shorehorning that into a time limitted course.


----------



## JamesRS5 (Oct 8, 2014)

OP, I've done one one of these courses (I won't mention which one), the course is informative and fun but in no way does it set you up as a 'detailer'. At the very best it gives you the absolute basic knowledge on methods and techniques used which is all they ever could do in such a short space of time. 

You will learn the two bucket wash method
How to remove a wheel and clean inside the arch
How to clay
......The list goes on and like I said, it's informative to learn from an expert and you can't beat having that knowledge base there to fire questions at, it's fun to learn a new skill with other likeminded individuals and you'll leave with the absolute basic knowledge on how to operate a polishing machine and what the different coatings do.

I challenge you to look through YouTube and not vicariously learn any of the above. 

I don't want to tread on anyone's toes here, I realise these training courses are a great source of income and a lot can be learnt from the experts out there, I'm just giving my thoughts and reflections after having completed a course. 

If you were taking your own car to a detailer - would you take it to the guy with a certificate proudly hanging on the wall, or the guy with a portfolio of detailed cars? I realise you have to start somewhere but look at the money involved here and what that could get you in detailing equipment.


----------



## AddictedtoBase (Sep 30, 2017)

First of all thank you everyone for the informative replys and Sorry for not replying i have been busy the past few days. It seems that most people agree not to spend £2400 on a five day course as it wont get me to the level of opening a buisness. Being honest i did not really think that it would but i hoped lol.What im thinking on doing is going over for the slims course to get me started on machine polishing and paint correction. I will then go home and practice for a few months on my own cars and may even purchase a cheap car to work on. Then im thinking a spin over for a few days with stangalang might be the best next step to take. What do you all think? Also if stangalang is viewing this post could you send me a pm or a phone number i can ring to find out more info cheers.


----------



## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

Got to have 10 posts for pm iirc.google him 
Not go wrong with matt


----------



## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

http://www.obsidiandetailing.com/

If anyone to goto Matts the person down to earth with a vast amount of knowledge and as straight as they come.


----------



## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

AddictedtoBase said:


> Hello im a newbie from southern ireland *im a serious detailing enthusiast* who is really wanting to open his own detailing buisness i have a small bit of experiance in cleaning waxing etc *but zero experiance in paint correction*


I'm not sure these two things go together - and a three (or five) day course, even from folks who really know what they're about, isn't going to change that.  It's a bit like me wanting a house re-wired, and finding some guy trading as a spark who tells me he's not done much re-wiring but look at the lovely certificate he's got. There just isn't any shortcut - it's like any other trade, you need to get the hours in, make the mistakes, to know what works and what doesn't.

Now, if you've got some money you can put towards this, there are things you can do that would accelerate your learning. I would look at getting a DA polisher (there's always a few knocking about 2nd hand) and some polishes and pads (again, usually folks looking to move things on here). Get some panels from a scrappy. Try and make them look shiny. Mess the panels up with sandpaper, try to take the marks out. Try and go through the clearcoat with a compound. Get some grades of fine sandpaper and try out wet-sanding. Maybe get a wet vac (not actually that dear compared to eg travelling to the UK!) and then find the most horrible car in your town and offer to clean it up in exchange for the right to take pictures of the whole thing. Post them on here, let the combined wisdom of the many years of experience help you learn as quickly as possible.

Once you've done this for a few months, that's probably the point to go see eg Matt @ Obsidian detailing, as you'll have the experience base to ask the right questions.

My second point is - do you have any experience of running a business? Speaking to clients - billing - invoicing, tax returns, all that stuff. Do you have an idea of how many clients you'd need a week to live on? Or do you have part time work or savings that you can support yourself on in the mean time? Ultimately, making a living from detailing cars is a very different thing from being a detailing enthusiast.


----------



## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Once again, thanks everyone who has mentioned my name and my company. 

Its common knowledge now my views on training. Its a must its really that simple. People who believe that its all available on you tube simply don't know that they don't know. Now with that said, I don't think training is everything. 

It has nothing to do with the "teacher" I just don't believe anyone can pick up enough knowledge context and experience in a "course". After a little while it kind of becomes overwhelming and turns into noise

I much prefer people to come to me and do a few days, then go away for a month or two and put into practice. Then come back much improved, and do a few more days, then go away again and do a few more cars. That way when the time comes for the intricate and deep stuff people have experience, have gained good and bad tendencies and it all can be dealt with

I offer no accreditation, as far as I'm aware there is NO industry specific qualification. I do personally think if a time served, respected detailer offers one that should count for something. I just personally think this is an artisan craft, and we are all on our own journeys. As such we should stand out for our own reasons in our own ways

Students get access to my own community where they can ask questions and give advice to other students, no egos or outside noise. As you move up the belt system the next door opens as it does for everyone else. You can share work, chat and help or be helped. It saves all the questions always coming to me, and instead can come from people on the same journey going through the same things


----------



## gibbo555 (May 3, 2011)

Yea some people get hung up on certificates, I lifted my first rotary at 17, I’m now 31 and still learning so 5 days isn’t a lot of time, as previously mentioned, put money towards equipment.


----------



## AddictedtoBase (Sep 30, 2017)

Hello everyone sorry for the long wait I have been deciding what to do with my situation.I have paid my deposit for the slims master detailing course. Personally i would prefer to do a course mainly aimed at paint correction. I am not 100% sure what is in store for me at the slims course (*Anyone who has done this course? perhaps you could let me know how much machining is covered in the course?*) but it does mention paint correction so i think its a good base to start with. Also i read somewhere that you get a lifetime discount on all products from slims detailing if you have done the course not sure if there is any truth to this?.

I seen in previous reply's to my original post that people got hung up on the fact that I am an enthusiast and that i wanted to open my own business. I just wanted to clear up that i am aware it will take some time Most likely years but I am 26 so I think there is still plenty of time to learn the ropes. when I am ready i can hopefully open a business and make this my full time job. In the mean time i intend to continue on doing bits of training and working on my own cars as practice.

Also could anyone recommend a really good wet dry vac for valeting interiors? as I am also toying with the idea of buying a van and opening a mobile valeting business in the meantime to fund my further training and get myself some experience running a small business while also putting my valeting skills to use thanks again everyone absolutely great to find a site like this


----------



## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

I know you have paid your deposit but I think you going back and forth to Matt would of been the best and sensible choice of learning the art of detailing:thumb: but that's to late now. In them 5 days that you will spend with slims will only touch base with the basics of machine polishing as you need to learn how to prepare the paint and other things before you even go near any paint. Look your still very young and still have plenty of time to do what you want to do, so after your course make sure you practice as much as possible as this will help you in the future :thumb:.

Good luck for the future bud:wave:


----------



## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

stangalang said:


> Once again, thanks everyone who has mentioned my name and my company.
> 
> Its common knowledge now my views on training. Its a must its really that simple. People who believe that its all available on you tube simply don't know that they don't know. Now with that said, I don't think training is everything.
> 
> ...


Your principle of spreading a course over a period of separate days is very sound, imo.

In any subject, you cannot have knowledge without having understanding, and understanding comes from both learning AND practice.

A multi-day back to back course is often a necessary evil in many industries, but they are only of use to impart the fundamental structure, so the student can then go practice and make some mistakes.

I think Matt's philosophy absolutely follows the correct principles for teaching a skill which requires assessment, judgement and then physical correction:-

You demonstrate, you allow practice, then re-assess, then demonstrate further as required and progressively back away as the student becomes more proficient.


----------



## AddictedtoBase (Sep 30, 2017)

Yea matt at Obsidion is going to be next venture in fact i emailed him for info yesterday  but the way i seen it was the slims course will set me up so that i can prep a car for correction and learn some slight correction skills. Then i will be ready to go to Matt and can focus completely on the paint correction side of things then.


----------



## robx1r (Feb 16, 2016)

What dates did you book slims? As for a wetvac. Ya can't really beat a George 😀. What part of the country are you in?


----------



## AddictedtoBase (Sep 30, 2017)

Feb was all i could get as the january dates i was planning on where filled up fast. I am not in England i am in Ireland bud


----------



## robx1r (Feb 16, 2016)

I'm in laois


----------



## AddictedtoBase (Sep 30, 2017)

another irish man lol how ya getting on? are u planning on doing the slims course aswell?


----------

