# First snow foaming experience - disappointed!!



## chowy (Apr 24, 2006)

Recently purchased a new Nilfisk C120 pressure washer and Autobrite lance and got the free 500ml sample of Super snow foam!

Tried it out for the first time and after watching videos and a few guides thought how hard could it be?

I used this one as a guide

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=303561

Rinsed car first and then sprayed on the foam as per directions above using approx 1" and then filling up just above 1/2 way with warm water...

Foam sprayed on nice as expected and let it dwell for 15-20 mins and the power washed it off from approx. 1 meter away from paintwork as I was worried about possible damage of paintwork. I noticed that although some of the dirt was washing off but it still left a lot of dirt left!!

I thought I'd move a little closer in one area (approx 0.5m) and still dirt was still there and not blasted off!

I finished off with hand wash (2 bucket method) but thought with those results I might as well just miss this stage out!

I noticed as it was dwelling that the foam was running down to the floor but there didn't seem any dirt mixing in with the foam?

Am I doing something wrong or do I need to try a different more aggressive foam? I certainly don't one that strips all the LSP off..

I appreciate snowfoaming is more a pre-wash but still, I thought during winter I may get away with a quick snow foam wash knowing that perhaps it won't be perfect but was surprised with the poor results 

Sorry didn't take any pics but you can imagine what a dirty white car looks like and then perhaps would say that it was around 50-60% clean compared to hand wash with wool mitt

Advice most welcome


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## cyberstretch (Apr 29, 2012)

I'm no expert but I noticed that my latest car was still very dirty after it's first snow foam compared to my last car which came up pretty clean after using the same product - I can only put that down to the fact that my last car was protected properly and the dirt came off a lot easier compared to as current car which has nil protection at the moment.


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

I usually use Valet pro citrus wash diluted in a spray bottle leave it to dwell then rinse it off,followed by snow foam I found this one to be the best I've used In a long while you don't want the foam to thick nor too runny:

http://www.envyvaleting.co.uk/products_info.asp?id=361

I do advise you to keep the lance a bit further away from the panel :thumb:


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## Jonny_R (Oct 23, 2012)

Will find it works better in the summer too when delaing with light dirt and dust.

I tend to find neither pre wash or snow foam even on my well protected car totally cut it in the winter due to the amount of dirt and grime build up weekly.

Nothing beats a hand wash im affraid, but every little helps to reducing the grit and dirt and so the chance of damageing the paint


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## Brophy (May 8, 2012)

My recommendation for snowfoam with pretty good cleaning power would be BiltHamber Autofoam. 

Best one I've tried and I have tried quite a few now lol 

Also recently been playing about with adding a citrus pre wash mix in with the snowfoam and had great results


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## chowy (Apr 24, 2006)

Car is protected with Collinite 476S and still beading nicely so I guess plenty of protection left!

I really don't want to add another stage into the wash cycle by adding another pre-wash routine before a second pre-wash, in particular if I have to finish off with a hand wash!


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

Jonny_R said:


> Will find it works better in the summer too when delaing with light dirt and dust.
> 
> I tend to find neither pre wash or snow foam even on my well protected car totally cut it in the winter due to the amount of dirt and grime build up weekly.
> 
> Nothing beats a hand wash im affraid, but every little helps to reducing the grit and dirt and so the chance of damageing the paint


Really :lol:
you can also use the citrus was through the lance as well as being demonstrated in the video :thumb:


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Not used the Autobrite foam, but 15-20 minutes is far too long of a dwell time (which if any foam states it as being a requirement, would have me thinking it's just useless or trying to eek out its value by under dosing) to be effective, and it's the rinsing which you've fallen down on.

At 1m distance, you may as well have took a swig of water and spat it at the car, for all the effect you were having.
Next time, get the lance 12" from the paintwork, and reduce the dwell time to 5-8 minutes tops.
Presumably the nozzle on the lance has adjustability, so make sure you've it set to a medium width, not pencil, at that distance.

Also, don't pre-rinse the car - it doesn't provide any benefit, as the larger particles will come off when you rinse the foam off, but won't interfere with it picking up the smaller ones, leaving only the stickier fine traffic film to contend with, with your mitt and shampoo.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=4372773&postcount=53

Also, 1" of neat product is meaningless - ask whomever's name is associated with the foam, what the recommended solution strength required is, as it lands on the paintwork.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=326442


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

suspal said:


> I do advise you to keep the lance a bit further away from the panel :thumb:


Why? If 1m away is not far enough, how far would you like him to stand?


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

1' is sound buddy just don't want to get too close :thumb:


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

suspal said:


> 1m is sound buddy just don't want to get too close :thumb:


<eric morecombe> Rubbish!

As per the video you've put up, you can clearly see the user is making proper and effective use of the pressurised water by driving the loosened and suspended dirt off.
It's all well and good having respect for the potential to cause paintwork damage, but not when it prevents you from making effective use of water under pressure - otherwise you may as well save on the expenditure of a PW and foam lance, and stick to the sprayhead on your garden hose!
Irrational fear serves no-one with any benefits - not in car cleaning, nor any other aspect of life.


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## chowy (Apr 24, 2006)

Am I correct to think that this method only works when using the lance around 12" away from bodywork?


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

PJS said:


> <eric morecombe> Rubbish!
> 
> As per the video you've put up, you can clearly see the user is making proper and effective use of the pressurised water by driving the loosened and suspended dirt off.
> It's all well and good having respect for the potential to cause paintwork damage, but not when it prevents you from making effective use of water under pressure - otherwise you may as well save on the expenditure of a PW and foam lance, and stick to the sprayhead on your garden hose!
> Irrational fear serves no-one with any benefits - not in car cleaning, nor any other aspect of life.


Lets just clarify one thing,what I meant was not to get too close to the panel i.e a like a couple of inches away, no scaremongering intended,anyone with an ounce of common sense would of fathomed that. No offence intended :thumb:


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

chowy said:


> Am I correct to think that this method only works when using the lance around 12" away from bodywork?


yes mate 9"-12" from the panel :thumb:


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## chowy (Apr 24, 2006)

OK thanks guys... Will try it at around 12" next time...


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## piston_warrior (Jul 25, 2012)

I'm surprised no one has picked up on this but your problem lies with the Super snow foam. I like most of Autobrite's products but Super snow foam is ****. Try Magifoam or any other recommended foams like Bilt Hamber, CG no touch, Valet Pro PH Neutral or Autosmart Actimousse and then you'll see how good foam is.


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## [FIN]Dani (May 20, 2011)

Just buy Bilt Hamber Auto-foam, most powerful foam on market and LSP safe to max. ~8%.

With BH A-f you can forget these ridiculous "fill lance bottle with xx dl raw foam, then warm water " -things.

Just raw BH A-f in the lance bottle and tune in from top of lance about 1-2rounds off from maximum.


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## Norman (Sep 5, 2006)

One of the benefits of having a white car is that you can actually see the dirt when the car is wet and being washed and rinsed off. All the other family cars since 2000 have been black, blue or red, and although I had been using snow foam for years, it was very educational when I got the A5 in 2012, as I could actually see the dirt being removed by rinsing. PJS is quite correct as rinsing more than 12" from the panel simply has no effect, whereas holding it between 9" and 12" it literally strips a large proportion of the muck away. I came to the conclusion that leaving the foam to dwell does take the looser dirt off the car, but it also has the benefit of softening the residue which can then be removed by the rinse. Simply pre rinsing without using snowfoam does not remove anything like the same amount of muck


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

I get good results with BH Autofoam in a spray bottle and a garden hose with a stupid nozzle thing... I know it works brilliantly with a proper foam lance and as mentioned it is completely LSP safe up to certain dilutions.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Snowfaoms can work, really a catch 22 sometimes on different cars the dirt comes off on others it does not clean at all, only use snowfoam in the winter months to aid faster cleaning but have a miss and hit on the performance factor.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

matthewt23 said:


> I'm surprised no one has picked up on this but your problem lies with the Super snow foam. I like most of Autobrite's products but Super snow foam is ****. Try Magifoam or any other recommended foams like Bilt Hamber, CG no touch, Valet Pro PH Neutral or Autosmart Actimousse and then you'll see how good foam is.


Your opinion of Ab's SSF may be valid, but at this point in time, it's not quite time for manning the lifeboats.
Once the OP has overcome his fear of using the lance closer to the paintwork, then he'll be in a position to conclude if the product is the problem, or if it was only his rinsing distance that needed addressing.

At least from there on in, he'll be better equipped to assess new foams if he decides to give other brands a try.


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## chowy (Apr 24, 2006)

Thanks all. Will let you know how I get on next time I use it.

As mentioned, it's a sample 500ml bottle I have so I guess won't last too long anyhow so will probably try Bilt Hamber next regardless.

I must admit I misread the Autobrite Group Buy thinking I would get both Super Snow Foam and Migifoam to try but after receiving it it would seem that you only get one bottle and I assume Magifoam is the more popular choice so they had plenty SSF left and sent me that...


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## chowy (Apr 24, 2006)

Just thought I'd give an update...

I tried again using Autobrite Super Snow foam... This time I upped the dosage to around 1:4 dilution and let it dwell for 10 mins and power washed it off from around 30 cm and although the results were a little better, the car was still relatively dirty when finished!

If there was a scale where 100% is completely clean after a wash with lambswool mitt and 2BM then I would say that 1st time around when I had the lance approx 1m away, I would say that the car was around 40% clean. The second time but using the lance at 30cm I would say that I got it to about 60% clean... still no good in my opinion!

I needed some new foam as I only had enough for 1 more wash with the Super snow foam so this time I decided to try Valet Pro citrus pre-wash as I though perhaps this can complement the snow foam....

As an experiment, I used dultion of 1:8 and sprayed (using a garden pressure sprayer) all the parts which were dirty... let it dwell for 10 mins and then just power wash it off with the same routine as before at 30 cm... This time I would say it got to around 90% clean which I assume is as good as it gets with just pressure washing!

Now begs the question is why use snow foam at all when this citrus pre-wash does a good enough job? I also like the fact that the drive is not covered in foam hours after I wash the car! 

I suspect a good snow foam product may have give better results than my previous 60% clean effort but now think I wasted money on a snow foam lance...

Probably will use VP citrus pre wash on it's own from now on....


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

You forget the dilution 1:8 in a spray bottle is very different to the dilution from a foam lance...


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## Ge03 (Jul 19, 2011)

I think many people have unrealistic expectations from snow foam. There's no way that anything LSP safe will leave a car sparkling without any kind of agitation, especially in winter. Loose dirt and road debris will dissapear but winter traffic film will just be softened and easier to shift when washing the car. Even adding a citrus pre-wash won't rinse a car sparkling and not needing washing.
Judge it for what it should do, soften the dirt to make washing easier and less chance of wash swirls from the mitt.


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## Neno330 (Dec 19, 2013)

I use BH autofoam with 5% PIR and the results are excellent.
I could tell that the car was about 90% clean.. 

My recommendations to BH autofoam :thumb:


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## shaneslatcher93 (Oct 13, 2013)

I definitely recommend Chemical Guys No Touch Snow foam, without a doubt the best Foam I have used to date. Recently cleaned a friends new white Audi A1, he has owned it a couple months, no protection on it and hadn't been cleaned by him.. I blasted with the PW to see if it would budge any roadfilm, but not a chance.. Covered it all with No touch Snow Foam, left for 10 mins and BAMMM removed it easily! 

I also believe CG have an offer on atm with this snow foam!

100ml in your bottle filled with hot/warm water..


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## Forsaken (Sep 2, 2012)

Try another snowfoam,Bilt Hamber or CG No touch


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## TheGruffalo1 (Dec 11, 2013)

I've always used Autobrites foam, it's top stuff. Can't complain all, does the job every time. I put 1" in and fill it up with water, foam always comes out nice and thick! :thumb:


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## shakey85 (Aug 20, 2013)

[FIN]Dani said:


> Just buy Bilt Hamber Auto-foam, most powerful foam on market and LSP safe to max. ~8%.
> 
> With BH A-f you can forget these ridiculous "fill lance bottle with xx dl raw foam, then warm water " -things.
> 
> Just raw BH A-f in the lance bottle and tune in from top of lance about 1-2rounds off from maximum.


+1 to this. Has never failed to get the vast majority of dirt off any car I have tried it on


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

suspal said:


> Really :lol:
> you can also use the citrus was through the lance as well as being demonstrated in the video :thumb:
> 
> Valet Pro Citrus Prewash - YouTube


Oh come on that dirt would have come off with just plain water with no chemicals involved.

Snow foam is all for show...i have tried many different makes and none of them performed as expected....even when I used stronger dilutions..

Way forward is AG PM3 in a hand sprayer or pump sprayer on the seriously dirty bits and in arches then a thorough pre rinse with water works better than any messy foam...ok it doenst look as funny as snowfoam but it means not wasting money on another set of products!


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Both autobrite foams are shocking, just there to look pretty 

You want one that actually earns then you need Auto Finesse avalanche or bilt hamber


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## Puntoboy (Jun 30, 2007)

Kimo73 said:


> Both autobrite foams are shocking, just there to look pretty
> 
> You want one that actually earns then you need Auto Finesse avalanche or bilt hamber


You can't just come out with a comment like that. I've found the complete opposite to you. Magifoam is better than Avalanche. But that's me, with my PW on my car.


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Vehicle needs to be well protected for best removal rate with a foam or prewash.

A foot away would be fine for powerwasher just take care around trims and any stuck on badges will eventually lift if too close and could be like taking a scraper under it for lifting.

Just common sense around certain areas but on the whole a foot away should be fine.

Bilt Hamber the best foam i have found so far, with autosmart actimousse xls close behind and autosmart ultra mousse behind that.

I have used valet pro citrus pre wash from a spray bottle at 1 part to 5 alongside bilt hamber foam at the same ratio on a 1000 mile heavy bug splattered vehicle and the bilt hamber enabled the bugs to be taken off with just the trigger spray on the hose pipe no power washer, the bugs had been on for a week well baked on and all impacted at motorway speeds. The Valet pro left them on.


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

Snow foam isn't about cleaning your car without having to touch it... With all the will in the world there is no product on the market which can protect a car so well that you never have to clean it.... If that was the case the likes of wash mitts, waxes, shampoos etc would become a thing of the past. Cars, windows will get dirty. The sealants, waxes, quartz coatings etc provided excellent protection and resist the bonding of dirt to keep your vehicle a cleaner for longer and easier to maintain compared with vehicles that are not sufficiently protected....

Snow foam is all about making the cleaning process easier. We are talking about lifting the grit from the surface and having the ability to remove this so as too not get it in the way mitt, and by scratching our lovely paint work... I sometimes think people expect too much from snow foam....

So what is snow foam about.... It's a foaming type of shampoo that sits on the surface of your car, it absorbs the heavy grit type grime. By allowing it to dwell, it softens the surface dirt... When rinsed with a PW it allows the removal of the gritty dirt, preventing it being picked up by our wash mitts. It then allows easier removal or the grime layer / dirt surface. After snow foaming it would say from my experiences 30-40% of grime is removed! which is less dirt on wash mitt etc....

I use snow foam, and I use AB MagiFoam. It doesn't clean a car, but when used it makes a noticeable difference, especially on my wife's white car.....!!!!

It's just my thoughts, my interpretation and my understanding and experience with snow foam.....


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Puntoboy said:


> You can't just come out with a comment like that. I've found the complete opposite to you. Magifoam is better than Avalanche. But that's me, with my PW on my car.


Well I can, and that's my opinion

And of course you'll say magifoam is the best thing in the whole wide world because you can't stand anyone saying a bad word against autobrite


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

Puntoboy said:


> You can't just come out with a comment like that. I've found the complete opposite to you. Magifoam is better than Avalanche. But that's me, with my PW on my car.


You can't say that either then lmao


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## Puntoboy (Jun 30, 2007)

Kimo73 said:


> Well I can, and that's my opinion
> 
> And of course you'll say magifoam is the best thing in the whole wide world because you can't stand anyone saying a bad word against autobrite


That's not true at all.

I'm actually going to changing the protection on my car soon as I've been disappointed with Nanoseal, and Autobrite product.



B17BLG said:


> You can't say that either then lmao


The difference being that I qualified my opinion. Different cars, different people, different pressure washers. All have an impact on how a product performs for different people.

Avalanche is good, but I don't think it's quite as effective as Magifoam.


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

I have to agree with Puntoboy...... Every individual interprets what that see differently.. Different LSP's will react differently, and the snow foams will intern react and respond differently. So it boils down to individual interpretation and individual choice.....!!!!!! 

I've only ever used MagiFoam. Cos I like it and it meets my needs... I can't say it's the best, as I've not tried the others. Maybe when I have used up my MagiFoam I will try the others..... 

What one person loves another may think it's just ok, and another may not like it...!!!


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## Ge03 (Jul 19, 2011)

Hercs74 said:


> Snow foam is all about making the cleaning process easier. We are talking about lifting the grit from the surface and having the ability to remove this so as too not get it in the way mitt, and by scratching our lovely paint work... I sometimes think people expect too much from snow foam....
> 
> So what is snow foam about.... It's a foaming type of shampoo that sits on the surface of your car, it absorbs the heavy grit type grime. By allowing it to dwell, it softens the surface dirt... When rinsed with a PW it allows the removal of the gritty dirt, preventing it being picked up by our wash mitts. It then allows easier removal or the grime layer / dirt surface. After snow foaming it would say from my experiences 30-40% of grime is removed! which is less dirt on wash mitt etc....


I'm in full agreement with this. Snow Foam does what it's designed to do. Unfortunately expectations are too high.


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## Forsaken (Sep 2, 2012)

Snow foam is a useful prewash,I do it so it lifts the gritty dirt away so I can go around with a detailing brush and get the trim and badges clean. 
It will never give you a 100% clean car without removing lsp.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Forsaken said:


> Snow foam is a useful prewash,I do it so it lifts the gritty dirt away so I can go around with a detailing brush and get the trim and badges clean.
> It will never give you a 100% clean car without removing lsp.


Yeah but the point being a proper rinse down with a pressure washer with plain water does just as good a job and is far more LSP safe than using a form of TFR!

In the past 6 years I have had 2 Brilliant Black Audi's and I have always looked after them like Pugly my 205GTI despite them being used daily to get to and from work (circa 80 miles a day round trip M25/M3/A3). I have never used snow foam on them (apart from testing the odd product) and shock horror I have also only ever used 1 bucket (with a grit guard). Wash media has ranged from B&Q grout sponges to the Dooka wash pad...and you know what in 6-8 month intervals the swirling and defects are close to none! All this with a good thorough plain water prewash with the pressure washer and maybe localised spray of diluted (500ml to a 5l pump sprayer) AutoGlym PowerMax 3 to the arches, sills and bumpers.

So riddle me this how would snow foam have mad any different apart from costing me more money and time in my wash routine?

Answer it would have made no difference at all.


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## Glimmermann (Jun 23, 2011)

Hercs74 said:


> Snow foam isn't about cleaning your car without having to touch it... With all the will in the world there is no product on the market which can protect a car so well that you never have to clean it.... If that was the case the likes of wash mitts, waxes, shampoos etc would become a thing of the past. Cars, windows will get dirty. The sealants, waxes, quartz coatings etc provided excellent protection and resist the bonding of dirt to keep your vehicle a cleaner for longer and easier to maintain compared with vehicles that are not sufficiently protected....
> 
> Snow foam is all about making the cleaning process easier. We are talking about lifting the grit from the surface and having the ability to remove this so as too not get it in the way mitt, and by scratching our lovely paint work... I sometimes think people expect too much from snow foam....
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree anymore, if your looking a snow foam that cleans it won't be PH neutral. The purpose is to help loosen dirt so that when your run the mitt over the paintwork, it will reduce scratching and swirl marks, not physical remove the dirt and wash the car completely!


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## MrPARR (Jul 26, 2007)

In my experience with multiple snow foams - they're a waste of money. I have used them through difference lances, under different pressure washers, and in the end I found there only real use was for mixing with other products to prolong their dwell times.

I find a lot of detailing products as of late, and the money generating mentality behind them are tosh. 

Snow foams being the biggest waste of your time and the ideology that they're needed to "Protect from risk of scratching" is founded from a fat cats pocket. Ditto with this seemingly new ridiculous step of using iron decontamination on your paint after/before/instead of clay, the only place iron decontaminates belong are on your wheels where they save time and are actually noticeable.

As with all things hobby, and vehicular - its an expensive and willy waving experience getting to use the new and expensive products that give the supposed "extra edge" so manufacturers will continue to create extra steps to make people part with their cash.

Just give me a old t-shirt to dry, a old pair of boxers for waxing and a sock for buffing - it worked when I was 18, so why do I now have £1000 worth of junk in my garage. :-/

Easy to get caught up.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

MrPARR said:


> In my experience with multiple snow foams - they're a waste of money. I have used them through difference lances, under different pressure washers, and in the end I found there only real use was for mixing with other products to prolong their dwell times.
> 
> I find a lot of detailing products as of late, and the money generating mentality behind them are tosh.
> 
> ...


Here here well said!


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

Why would you not Iron X a cars paintwork?

:lol:


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## piston_warrior (Jul 25, 2012)

MrPARR said:


> In my experience with multiple snow foams - they're a waste of money. I have used them through difference lances, under different pressure washers, and in the end I found there only real use was for mixing with other products to prolong their dwell times.
> 
> I find a lot of detailing products as of late, and the money generating mentality behind them are tosh.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you are very set in your ways but I suppose why not? You are you and you do things that makes you happy. Fair enough.

I have tried Bilt Hamber snow foam and it works brilliantly, I use various products to clean my car and regardless of cost they work very effectively and are noticeable.

Each to their own, I have never used an old set of boxers and t-shirt to dry. You may achieve the same results but one way will get you there a lot quicker, so then is it worth the extra money? Well that is all a matter of opinion.

I do agree you have to take of lot of this marketing bull poop with a pinch of salt and always shop around and scour the review section before making a substantial purchase but that's not new for me since I do that will most purchases not detailing related.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Foam works for me. Gimmick? Yeah, maybe but my daily covers an average of 800 miles a week and stays clean for perhaps 24 hours during the winter. 

Plain PW rinse removes a fair bit of debris but for me a good foam removes the "next" layer of grime which would otherwise stay on the bodywork and risk scratches when I come to wash.

Given that the wash stage is where most damage will happen I'd rather err on the side of caution. Quick foam, clean wheels and fill buckets while it dwells, rinse and most of the muck is gone which I can't achieve using water alone.

VP foam is all gone by the time I've rinsed after 2 bucket washing so no winter wonderland on my drive for a week either.

I'm hoping that the sealant now on the car will help keep it clean and so far so good.

I guess I'm just gullible lol.


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## The Incredible Hulk (Nov 19, 2005)

AndyC said:


> Foam works for me. Gimmick? Yeah, maybe but my daily covers an average of 800 miles a week and stays clean for perhaps 24 hours during the winter.
> 
> Plain PW rinse removes a fair bit of debris but for me a good foam removes the "next" layer of grime which would otherwise stay on the bodywork and risk scratches when I come to wash.
> 
> ...


Gullible is a tad harsh, it's your hobby end of!


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Right, Cba to read the past few comments as they are extremely long, but I'm just throwing this out there

Anyone who says it can't clean/lift dirt easily unless it isn't ph neutral has never used obsession wax snow foam. Sprayed onto Very dirty cars, it bought so much dirt off that when I was washing the car the mitt remained virtually clean the whole way round

Seriously good dilution rate, 20ml in a litre and cheap. Comes out very thick too

Try it


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