# Swirls still here :(



## xonxon

Hi All,

Been following this forum for a while and after a failed attempt with rexin and hand-polishing I gave up and went for a Das 6 pro.

I started out on a crap daily, shine came out quite nice, did not bother with swirls. After that I did my mk1 mx5 where I managed to reduce the number of swirls by say 80%. I was told that its an old car and should leave it as is.

Yesterday I started out SWMBO's 3 year old black mazda 2. The swirls were being massively improving but there was still a few (Hexlogic white and Megs 205), I turned to Hexlogic orange with megs 105. A 50:50 later, the side where I did the 105 seemed worse than the other, did two hits of 205 with the white pad again on the whole panel but the bit where I did the 105 still looks worse than the bit where I just did it with the 205.


I'm moving around 1cm per second, covering 50% each time, doing 6 to 8 passes per part of panel(tailgate was split in 2 sections), and doing this all twice, running speed 6 and pressing just enough for the motor to change its noise and slow down slightly. Not using more than 3 pea sized drops of polish.

Can anyone tell me what I'm missing?

Sorry no pics, will do the bonnet next weekend and send pics.

Thanks in advance


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## Rod

Have you seen the Junkman's videos? They are of great help!


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## xonxon

Yes saw them before buying the stuff










these are the results with megs 205 and a white hexlogic pad on the mx5. been using clay from ebay china


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## Otto

I take it the left is what you used 105 on or is the pic just how you got on with 205?

Could the pad used for the 105 have been contaminated perhaps?

Do you have any other polishes that you could use?


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## Rod

Have you tried cleaning up the pads and starting again? Where they saturated in product?


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## Junkman2008

xonxon said:


> Yes saw them before buying the stuff.


If that's the case, you did NOT pay attention when you watched them, you did not watch them more than once and you did not take notes. That the 3 things that I tell all novices to do. I can tell that by what you posted in your initial post. In my videos, I say numerous times that *technique trumps product every time.* If you watched my videos and call yourself doing what I did, then you're doing it wrong. For that reason, I'm going to send you back to those videos and advise you to *take notes* when you watch them this time. If you missed what you misstated in your initial post then there's no telling how much other stuff you've missed. The people who want to help you within this thread are assuming that you are doing this properly. I clearly see that your technique is completely wrong.

So back to the videos for you mate and this time, do EXACTLY as I say and show, and don't mix in things that are NOT part of my technique. You learn more about how to master this stuff by figuring out what you are doing wrong than if I tell you so that's why I'm sending you back to the videos. Start with video ONE.


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## Ge03

My suggestions would be;
Too slow, try moving at a couple of inches per second
Pressure, just enough to keep the pad flat in contact with the paint but the pad still spinning.
Pads & compound, you jumped two steps by upping the pad cut and compound together. The Mazda typically has soft paint, so either stick with the white pad & 205 and just repeat until fixed, else go up one step in either pad or polish, white with 105 or I would stick with the 205 but on the orange pad.
Spur the pad clean after every pass.


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## Junkman2008

Ge03 said:


> My suggestions would be;
> Too slow, try moving at a couple of inches per second


When using the combination of pad and polish that he is using, it's next to impossible to go "too slow". Bad advice.



Ge03 said:


> Pads & compound, you jumped two steps by upping the pad cut and compound together.


NO, that's the way the products are engineered to work. That's not jumping "2 steps". You're trying to make this rocket science, which it is clearly not. M105 is to be used on the orange pad and M205 is to be used on the white pad. That's exactly what I show in my videos and it works like a charm. Don't make it rocket science.



Ge03 said:


> The Mazda typically has soft paint, so either stick with the white pad & 205 and just repeat until fixed, else go up one step in either pad or polish, white with 105 or I would stick with the 205 but on the orange pad.


Again, don't make it rocket science. There is no need to dissect the process. Also, Mazda paint from the factory is NO DIFFERENT than any other when it comes to fixing it. These soft paint myths crack me up. Factory paint is as hard as they come. It's aftermarket paint that can vary it hardness.



Ge03 said:


> Spur the pad clean after every pass.


That is completely unnecessary if he is following my technique. That is for someone who gobs polish or compound on their pad for every pass, which completely renders the pad worthless.


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## -Raven-

Why are you hitting the poor soft paint Mazda with 105? Overkill much??? You seen the great results you are getting with the finishing polish M205.....


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## cheekymonkey

Junkman2008 said:


> Again, don't make it rocket science. There is no need to dissect the process. Also, Mazda paint from the factory is NO DIFFERENT than any other when it comes to fixing it. *These soft paint myths crack me up.* Factory paint is as hard as they come. It's aftermarket paint that can vary it hardness
> 
> Totally wrong there is no myth i own a jap car and have worked on many jap cars, there paint is softer then any others. my car paint is so soft it swirls if you show it a sponge.


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## -Raven-

cheekymonkey said:


> Totally wrong there is no myth i own a jap car and have worked on many jap cars, there paint is softer then any others. my car paint is so soft it swirls if you show it a sponge.


Yep ain't that the truth! :thumb:

Got to love water based paint.... :wall:


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## cheekymonkey

Junkman2008 said:


> NO, that's the way the products are engineered to work. That's not jumping "2 steps". You're trying to make this rocket science, which it is clearly not. M105 is to be used on the orange pad and M205 is to be used on the white pad. That's exactly what I show in my videos and it works like a charm. Don't make it rocket science.
> 
> bad advise you dont use m105 and a orange pad on jap soft paint, you need to lower the abrasiveness of both the pad and polish


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## -Raven-

Junkman2008 said:


> When using the combination of pad and polish that he is using, it's next to impossible to go "too slow". Bad advice.


That isn't bad advise actually. If it's soft _and_ sticky paint, heat is your enemy. The usual technique just doesn't work.....


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## cheekymonkey

-Raven- said:


> That isn't bad advise actually. If it's soft _and_ sticky paint, heat is your enemy. The usual technique just doesn't work.....


it doesnt take long for heat to generate in soft paint


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## MAXI-MILAN

xonxon said:


> Yes saw them before buying the stuff
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> these are the results with megs 205 and a white hexlogic pad on the mx5. been using clay from ebay china


Very good result :thumb: I think now you only need M205 with black finishing pad to improve the gloss and remove all haze and light swirl.


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## Junkman2008

cheekymonkey said:


> Totally wrong there is no myth i own a jap car and have worked on many jap cars, there paint is softer then any others. my car paint is so soft it swirls if you show it a sponge.


We will agree to disagree. You can bet that I have touch more than a few Japanese cars in my day. I just finished this Camry a few months ago.

BEFORE:


















































































AFTER: I had to use a ROTARY polisher to get some of the damage out of the paint on this car. So much for your soft paint/Japanese car theory.


















































































And since pictures never tell the whole story, here's the video.


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## -Raven-

That Toyota Camry is made in the USA 

What else have you got that's actually Japanese! :lol:

Good luck with it Junkman, I'd love to see you tackle a soft and sticky Subaru or NHB Honda! :thumb:


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## Junkman2008

-Raven- said:


> That Toyota Camry is made in the USA
> 
> What else have you got that's actually Japanese! :lol:
> 
> Good luck with it Junkman, I'd love to see you tackle a soft and sticky Subaru or NHB Honda! :thumb:


I was tackling paint when you were in diapers son. I have nothing to prove to you.


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## -Raven-

Junkman2008 said:


> I was tackling paint when you were in diapers son. I have nothing to prove to you.


well you want to go around telling everybody else they're wrong lol! 

So you are really saying all factory paint is the same? Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh! :lol:


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## Junkman2008

-Raven- said:


> well you want to go around telling everybody else they're wrong lol!
> 
> So you are really saying all factory paint is the same? Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh! :lol:


Sure thing son. :wave:


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## xonxon

Apologies, the pic is from when I did my mx5, but to be totally honest, in reality it does not look as good.

Left hand side is not done, whilst right hand side is with megs 205 and hex white pad



Otto said:


> I take it the left is what you used 105 on or is the pic just how you got on with 205?
> 
> Could the pad used for the 105 have been contaminated perhaps?
> 
> Do you have any other polishes that you could use?


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## xonxon

Firstly, since I have never had the opportunity to talk to you, I would like to thank you for your informative videos, would it have not been for you, I still would have €300 or so in my pocket but no hope at removing swirls.

Telling me that I did not pay attention, I do not believe you are being fair.

Details-
Technique trumps product - I agree, bought some cheap pads from ebay and some polish I got as a sample and I got my 17 year old car to shine (car costs 1/2 the price of an I phone)
-your camera has battery issues
-you work as a networking technician
-"brother in his garage productions"
-you stepped on your burgundy pickup truck with your huge boots and scractched the hood on purpose (don't know the name as its a totally different car market here)

I did not say that I did what you did, I did it to the best of my ability, and IIRC I only mentioned you after someone asked if I had seen your videos.

I will find some time to watch them all over again and try to guess what I should do.

To try to add as much detail as possible, I also passed a hit with poorboys blackhole one speed 4, and AG ultra deep shine (which I have been led to believe is a sealant) - the car is now beading like crazy  so I'm happy about it.



Junkman2008 said:


> If that's the case, you did NOT pay attention when you watched them, you did not watch them more than once and you did not take notes. That the 3 things that I tell all novices to do. I can tell that by what you posted in your initial post. In my videos, I say numerous times that *technique trumps product every time.* If you watched my videos and call yourself doing what I did, then you're doing it wrong. For that reason, I'm going to send you back to those videos and advise you to *take notes* when you watch them this time. If you missed what you misstated in your initial post then there's no telling how much other stuff you've missed. The people who want to help you within this thread are assuming that you are doing this properly. I clearly see that your technique is completely wrong.
> 
> So back to the videos for you mate and this time, do EXACTLY as I say and show, and don't mix in things that are NOT part of my technique. You learn more about how to master this stuff by figuring out what you are doing wrong than if I tell you so that's why I'm sending you back to the videos. Start with video ONE.


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## Junkman2008

xonxon said:


> Firstly, since I have never had the opportunity to talk to you, I would like to thank you for your informative videos, would it have not been for you, I still would have €300 or so in my pocket but no hope at removing swirls.












Don't feel bad, you are not the first to tell me that.



xonxon said:


> Telling me that I did not pay attention, I do not believe you are being fair.
> 
> Details-
> Technique trumps product - I agree, bought some cheap pads from ebay and some polish I got as a sample and I got my 17 year old car to shine (car costs 1/2 the price of an I phone)


That's fair, but once you posted that you had watched my videos and were using some of the same products that I used, it lead me to believe that you were using my template to fix your paint. As you have clearly pointed out, you definitely were not. So I will say this, follow my template and you will have much better luck. You can't expect to get excellent results as a novice if you use sub par quality products and a flawed technique. As a novice, everything you practice must consist of perfect practice. Practicing it wrong only teaches you bad habits and techniques that will be hard to quit doing later on. That's why the saying goes, *"perfect practice makes perfect."*



xonxon said:


> -your camera has battery issues


That was 2 digital cameras ago. I now use a HD camera and it has no battery issues.



xonxon said:


> -you work as a networking technician
> -"brother in his garage productions"


Yes, but that is unimportant in your quest to make perfect paint. 



xonxon said:


> -you stepped on your burgundy pickup truck with your huge boots and scractched the hood on purpose (don't know the name as its a totally different car market here)


Yes I did because I wanted people to know that I don't fake the funk. 



xonxon said:


> I did not say that I did what you did, I did it to the best of my ability, and IIRC I only mentioned you after someone asked if I had seen your videos.


Okay, then I'm telling you to do what I did. If you want to make some progress, quit making it up as you go or inventing your own way of doing this. Don't "do it to the best of your ability" because you don't know how to do it yet. Learn how to do it correctly FIRST and then you can start experimenting. Look at it this way, you have to learn how to take off, fly and land a plane before you think about going to stunt flying school. You have to build on a solid foundation or you will never be effective at fixing paint. I have given you a solid foundation. Take it and master it. The results that you seek will come when you do. Since you started this thread looking for what you are doing wrong, I am offering the answer.



xonxon said:


> I will find some time to watch them all over again and try to guess what I should do.


There is no guessing involved. If you truly understand what you are watching, the answers will be clear as day. Since I take the time to explain everything that I do and why I do it, I have taken all of the rocket science out of the process. I have taught kids to do this stuff so you should have no problem whatsoever learning to do this properly.



xonxon said:


> To try to add as much detail as possible, I also passed a hit with poorboys blackhole one speed 4, and AG ultra deep shine (which I have been led to believe is a sealant) - the car is now beading like crazy  so I'm happy about it.


Now image what it would look like if that beaded paint was perfect. :speechles


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## James Bagguley

Xonxon, i think if you are happy overall, thats the main thing.
The 50/50 you show does look very good, and pretty much like 99% of finished pics you see from such jobs.

Perhaps the cheap pads are leaving some marring? or, like my dads Mondeo there are a lot of RDS? (depending on what it is you are seeing, no expert myself just throwing out suggestions)

As for using orange/105 on my Honda seemed to work pretty well for me, even on a pronounced curve (corner of bumper/fender) it didnt appear to terrorise the paint, no PTG though so always risky, but reduced an obvious scuff by about 80%

Whatever the disagreement, Junkman has made paint correction accessible to the masses, and as a practice i suppose it is very subjective. 
Maybe there are certain things we have to deduce ourselves relative to our own situations.


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## Alex L

Junkman2008 said:


> Stuffs.


Theres more than one way to skin a cat, so telling people they have to do exactly as you say or else is quite rude in my book.

I didn't use your techniques or those products and I managed to polish my car perfectly fine.

But hey what do I know, I have a nice blue Subaru and the paint on that is rather soft and marks incredibly easy compared to my old cars which were Aussie and German.



Junkman2008 said:


> So back to the videos for you mate and this time,* do EXACTLY as I say and show *, and don't mix in things that are NOT part of my technique. You learn more about how to master this stuff by figuring out what you are doing wrong than if I tell you so that's why I'm sending you back to the videos. Start with video ONE.


I'd re-word that as that's the sort of attitude that makes people dislike our cousins across the pond.


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## Junkman2008

Alex L said:


> Theres more than one way to skin a cat, so telling people they have to do exactly as you say or else is quite rude in my book.


First off, I have never said that the way I do things is the ONLY way to do things. If that's your take on what I said then a little reading comprehension should be in your future. There are over a 100 different products on the market and 50 different ways to use them. I offered one way and told the OP that if he wants to do it the way I do it then he has to do it exactly as I do it. So read what I write and not into what I write. I am crystal clear in what I say and mean.



Alex L said:


> I'd re-word that as that's the sort of attitude that makes people dislike our cousins across the pond.


There's no need for me to reword anything. If you can't understand it then I can't help you. You're not my daddy so I don't need you policing my post.


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## jamie_s

Junkman you are a legend and I love your videos, but some factory paints are definitely softer than others. Vauxhall lacquer I find is fairly soft and I've done a few. My mums vectra had original paint apart from the bootlid. I got the car 98% swirl free with just 3m extrafine on the yellow pad with 1-2 hits but the bootlid needed heavy compound. Yet I've polished german and french cars where the same combo didn't do anything and the paint was in better shape to begin with!


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## jamie_s

Just extrafine on a yellow pad.


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## jamie_s

same combo


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## Bezste

Ha ha! I love Junkman's videos and I love Junkman - He has a way of doing things that he's decided to share because it works - and it's saved me a sh*tload of time. So thank you!

Doesn't mean I have to agree with absolutely EVERYTHING he says. Just 99% of it.


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## Trip tdi

OP just buy a black pad with no cut and use the 205 to finish and refine, no need to use the white pad and I feel on mazda paint the orange pad with 105 is over kill, should be soft paint.
I would of used 105 with green pad and 205 with black.
Try this combo, wash the white pad and use 105 on that and see what kind correction it gives, should do the job then refine and take your time with 205 on a black pad pressure and speed can be adjusted to your liking, at the end use the machine weight with 3 too 4 passes to burnish.
The orange is for cutting but can be aggressive on softer paints, that's why manufacturers have different pads in texture to suit different paint types.


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## xonxon

I thought the black pad was for glazes and waxes, will give it a shot this weekend 



Trip tdi said:


> OP just buy a black pad with no cut and use the 205 to finish and refine, no need to use the white pad and I feel on mazda paint the orange pad with 105 is over kill, should be soft paint.
> I would of used 105 with green pad and 205 with black.
> Try this combo, wash the white pad and use 105 on that and see what kind correction it gives, should do the job then refine and take your time with 205 on a black pad pressure and speed can be adjusted to your liking, at the end use the machine weight with 3 too 4 passes to burnish.
> The orange is for cutting but can be aggressive on softer paints, that's why manufacturers have different pads in texture to suit different paint types.


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## Junkman2008

jamie_s said:


> Junkman you are a legend and I love your videos, but some factory paints are definitely softer than others. Vauxhall lacquer I find is fairly soft and I've done a few. My mums vectra had original paint apart from the bootlid. I got the car 98% swirl free with just 3m extrafine on the yellow pad with 1-2 hits but the bootlid needed heavy compound. Yet I've polished german and french cars where the same combo didn't do anything and the paint was in better shape to begin with!


I don't doubt that that has been your experience but I have definitely not seen a significant difference in the clear coats that I have touched unless they have been painted aftermarket. Maybe it's a US thing and the clear coat specifications are different abroad but every clear coat that I have touch has been equally hard. paints with no clear coat are another story. That has been my experience and I'm going back to the 80's.



xonxon said:


> I thought the black pad was for glazes and waxes, will give it a shot this weekend


It is. It has no cut whatsoever so I don't know where that advice is coming from.


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## piston_warrior

I can also vouch for the soft/hard lacquer "myth". I corrected my car 98% just with a white hex logic and Menzerna 106FA by only doing one set. However on a panel that had been resprayed 2 sets of the same Menz/White HL combo couldn't touch any of the swirls and I had to step it up to 203S and that finished off the job just fine. My car is a Vauxhall and is known for having "soft" paint that is easily marred compared to the likes of German cars.


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## Junkman2008

Just because you used a white pad to correct your paint damage does not mean that your clear coat is soft. It may mean that the damage you had was not that bad. Not all clear coats require the same approach. That's why you start with the least aggressive approach first.


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## Trip tdi

xonxon said:


> I thought the black pad was for glazes and waxes, will give it a shot this weekend


The black pad is mainly used for finishing and applying waxes and sealants, the cut will come from the 205 with the black pad, apply some pressure and crank the speed up, then back off the pressure and use the machines weight at the end to finish even further on the past passes and buff off and examine, use IPA or Eraser to check your work, if the finish is not to your liking you can start all over again 205 and the black pad depending on pressure and speed to amp up the gloss levels and check your work again.
Do small section first when you have mastered it carry the same combo all over the car, it takes time but can be done just need to check your work and examine and examine frequently.
Meguiars 105 and 205 will correct all paints on the market, and cut can increased and decreased by the pad chosen plus pressure and speed of the machine plus slow movements from section to section.
105 and 205 will always have the cut available as the technology is not diminishing as such, they are ultra ultra compact in size, clever technology that completely changed the market and game for big detailers to save time, resources and cost.
My personnel opinion is there is better refining finishing polishes out there than 205, just have to master how to use 105 and 205 and the results will impress you but i fins is no match for a pure finishing polish with a finishing pad will give greater gloss and shine as you are breaking down the polish and are smoothing away the clear, just like polishing a jewel.


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## piston_warrior

Junkman2008 said:


> Just because you used a white pad to correct your paint damage does not mean that your clear coat is soft. It may mean that the damage you had was not that bad. Not all clear coats require the same approach. That's why you start with the least aggressive approach first.


You're not reading what I'm saying. The white pad has no cut and I used a finishing polish to correct. The fact is I managed 98% correction with just a finishing polish on the standard lacquer but on the resprayed panel I had to step it up to a medium cutting compound to even touch the swirls (which were exactly the same as the other panels) I know my clear coat is soft because it's very easy to swirl up compared to other cars I've owned.

You are obviously a very opinionated person but there are a few flaws in the prayer you preach which when pointed out to you you get all defensive but we are only trying to help.

We are all, as a forum, only trying to offer information because one person does not know the answer to everything.


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## Trip tdi

The white has a mild cut to it but can cut heavy on it's own with a more aggressive style polish; the Black pad has no cut just cut from the foam and heat.


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## warrmr

Just to throw some fire on the Hard vs Soft paint discussion. I'm a noob so feel free to tell me to shut it and do some more research.

If there is no such thing as soft paint then why can you swirl an Aston Martin just by sneezing on it. The guy at Incredible detail has done an extensive write up on AM paint and a correction that he has done for a customer.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=205427

Then you have my old VW Polo, pretty much impossible to mar the paint when washing it and I needed to use a medium pad and compound to get that to standard.

Then going even older I tidied up a mated Vahxuall Corsa B which had gone pink, that had no clear coat and sent all of my pads a nice shade of red as I was cleaning it up. That only needed a light pad and medium compound.


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## Alex L

warrmr said:


> Then going even older I tidied up a mated Vahxuall Corsa B which had gone pink, that had no clear coat and sent all of my pads a nice shade of red as I was cleaning it up. That only needed a light pad and medium compound.


Wrong paint bro :thumb:

That'd be single stage paint, comes without clearcoat as standard :thumb:


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## Alex L

Junkman2008 said:


> I don't doubt that that has been your experience but I have definitely not seen a significant difference in the clear coats that I have touched unless they have been painted aftermarket. Maybe it's a US thing and the clear coat specifications are different abroad but every clear coat that I have touch has been equally hard. paints with no clear coat are another story. That has been my experience and I'm going back to the 80's.
> 
> :


Have you done many 996 vintage 911s? as I know for fact quite a lot of people have had issues with the paint being 'sticky' and having to completely change the way they work their products, which instantly says to me that the clearcoat Porsche use was slightly different to others.
The same way mid 90s Japanese clearcoat is [email protected] and fails completely quite easily.

And as there's quite a few different paint manufacturers so I'd hazard a guess that the ingredients will be the same, just different amounts giving slightly different properties.

The same way Coke and Pepsi are both colas, but one tastes [email protected] and ones quite nice


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## jamie_s

Junkman2008 said:


> I don't doubt that that has been your experience but I have definitely not seen a significant difference in the clear coats that I have touched unless they have been painted aftermarket. Maybe it's a US thing and the clear coat specifications are different abroad but every clear coat that I have touch has been equally hard. paints with no clear coat are another story. That has been my experience and I'm going back to the 80's.
> 
> It is. It has no cut whatsoever so I don't know where that advice is coming from.


I did wonder if things could be different in the US especially with there being a different selection of cars and brands compared to the UK. I'd put some pics up of the harder factory paints I've worked on but I can't find any. But you can see the pics of the 2 vauxhalls I put up they were both pretty badly marred and thats also down to the clear being soft. They're a dream to correct as they usually take one quick pass with 3m extrafine on their yellow pad, no need for further refining either. 
I corrected my friends renault clio 197 not knowing that french cars had hard paint. Tried the same combo as on the vauxhalls and even though the clio paint was in much better nick, the paint looked identicle after one hit! It was as if I'd forgotten to put compound on my pad it was ridiculously hard on every panel!


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## warrmr

Alex L said:


> Wrong paint bro :thumb:
> 
> That'd be single stage paint, comes without clearcoat as standard :thumb:


I told you I was a Noob, I suppose thats like comparing Coke and Dr Pepper then.


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## Ge03

Junkman2008 said:


> Again, don't make it rocket science. There is no need to dissect the process. Also, Mazda paint from the factory is NO DIFFERENT than any other when it comes to fixing it. These soft paint myths crack me up. Factory paint is as hard as they come. It's aftermarket paint that can vary it


Man, you must be in a different car universe from me! :buffer:


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## Ge03

Actually that's probably quite correct. Xenophobic America has most cars built in US or Mexico factories, VW for example builds in Mexico for the US market, so they are just as likely be using a US paint manufacturer.


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## -Raven-

Junkman2008 said:


> I don't doubt that that has been your experience but I have definitely not seen a significant difference in the clear coats that I have touched unless they have been painted aftermarket. Maybe it's a US thing and the clear coat specifications are different abroad but every clear coat that I have touch has been equally hard. paints with no clear coat are another story. That has been my experience and I'm going back to the 80's.


polish a Japanese spec NHB Honda and get back to us.....



Junkman2008 said:


> It is. It has no cut whatsoever so I don't know where that advice is coming from.


what, you've never used a finishing polish on a black glazing pad? Think thats bad advice too? This is as common to do as washing your car..... Don't know how you are getting the perfect finish you claim on the cars you do if you aren't doing this..... :tumbleweed:


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## cheekymonkey

Ge03 said:


> Man, you must be in a different car universe from me! :buffer:


not universe but different worlds, your in the real one :thumb:


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## cheekymonkey

Junkman2008 said:


> We will agree to disagree. You can bet that I have touch more than a few Japanese cars in my day. I just finished this Camry a few months ago.
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> AFTER: I had to use a ROTARY polisher to get some of the damage out of the paint on this car. So much for your soft paint/Japanese car theory.
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> And since pictures never tell the whole story, here's the video.
> 
> Guess The Wax... - YouTube


must be missing something how does the photo's prove the paint isn't soft


----------



## cheekymonkey

-Raven- said:


> That Toyota Camry is made in the USA
> 
> What else have you got that's actually Japanese! :lol:
> 
> Good luck with it Junkman, I'd love to see you tackle a soft and sticky Subaru or NHB Honda! :thumb:


i think hes proved he doesnt know about true jap paint.:thumb:


----------



## cheekymonkey

Junkman2008 said:


> I was tackling paint when you were in diapers son. I have nothing to prove to you.


that proves nothing just because you've done it for years dont mean you know everything or are good at it.
Infact in this thread its starting to show you dont know as much as you try to make people believe,


----------



## cheekymonkey

matthewt23 said:


> You're not reading what I'm saying. The white pad has no cut and I used a finishing polish to correct. The fact is I managed 98% correction with just a finishing polish on the standard lacquer but on the resprayed panel I had to step it up to a medium cutting compound to even touch the swirls (which were exactly the same as the other panels) I know my clear coat is soft because it's very easy to swirl up compared to other cars I've owned.
> 
> You are obviously a very opinionated person but there are a few flaws in the prayer you preach which when pointed out to you you get all defensive but we are only trying to help.
> 
> We are all, as a forum, only trying to offer information because one person does not know the answer to everything.


I know what you mean mate, mine is mits black perl and it is so soft white pad + ultrafina will correct almost everything


----------



## cheekymonkey

-Raven- said:


> polish a Japanese spec NHB Honda and get back to us.....
> 
> what, you've never used a finishing polish on a black glazing pad? Think thats bad advice too? This is as common to do as washing your car..... Don't know how you are getting the perfect finish you claim on the cars you do if you aren't doing this..... :tumbleweed:


it may have something to do with the sealant he uses not being a sealnt but actually being an all in one :doublesho


----------



## Junkman2008

matthewt23 said:


> You're not reading what I'm saying. The white pad has no cut and I used a finishing polish to correct.


So what BRAND pads are you using where the white pad has no cut?


----------



## Junkman2008

cheekymonkey said:


> must be missing something how does the photo's prove the paint isn't soft


Yea, you're missing something alright.


----------



## Junkman2008

cheekymonkey said:


> that proves nothing just because you've done it for years dont mean you know everything or are good at it.
> Infact in this thread its starting to show you dont know as much as you try to make people believe,


----------



## cheekymonkey

Junkman2008 said:


> Haters Gonna Hate! - YouTube


sorry mate total wrong end of the stick, i dont hate you, infact i feel sorry for you having to go from forum to forum to influence the beginners as those who have experience know what your really talking.:tumbleweed:

ps can you make a new haters gonna hate as im sick of seeing this one all over the forums :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::wall::lol:


----------



## cheekymonkey

Junkman2008 said:


> Yea, you're missing something alright.


thankfuly it not your knowledge :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

what gets me is you come out calling people for there lack of knowledge yet when other correct your mistake you have no useful information to come back to prove your point, just silly useless comments like the one above, or stupid videos which again is meaningless thats what i would expect from a 10 year old its just pathetic. If your going to reply make it something a adult would say.


----------



## Junkman2008

cheekymonkey said:


> sorry mate total wrong end of the stick, i dont hate you, infact i feel sorry for you having to go from forum to forum to influence the beginners as those who have experience know what your really talking.:tumbleweed:
> 
> ps can you make a new haters gonna hate as im sick of seeing this one all over the forums :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::wall::lol:


----------



## cheekymonkey

Junkman2008 said:


>


you see another childish reply again instead of posting this rubbish post facts that prove your right and all others are wrong :wall::wall:


----------



## Junkman2008

cheekymonkey said:


> you see another childish reply again instead of posting this rubbish post facts that prove your right and all others are wrong :wall::wall:


----------



## S63

Don't mess with the Monkey.


----------



## James Bagguley

Okay, this sucks! Maybe Junkmans initial response to Xonxon could be construed as a little harsh, but i think maybe he felt so too, and post #23 showed as much with his replies.

Perhaps a US built Toyota has different clear coat consistency, so i personally could see that as being no fault on JM's part for citing it as an example.

Coupled to that, describing use of a rotary polisher to correct such paint is clearly testament to the consistency of clear coat on that particular car.

Sorry to buck the trend here, as it seems to be turning into some sort of witch hunt, but i cant forget the fact that this man has provided a good solid grounding in products and techniques to many for free, and in this day and age that to me, counts for a lot.


----------



## Junkman2008

James Bagguley said:


> Okay, this sucks! Maybe Junkmans initial response to Xonxon could be construed as a little harsh, but i think maybe he felt so too, and post #23 showed as much with his replies.
> 
> Perhaps a US built Toyota has different clear coat consistency, so i personally could see that as being no fault on JM's part for citing it as an example.
> 
> Coupled to that, describing use of a rotary polisher to correct such paint is clearly testament to the consistency of clear coat on that particular car.
> 
> Sorry to buck the trend here, as it seems to be turning into some sort of witch hunt, but i cant forget the fact that this man has provided a good solid grounding in products and techniques to many for free, and in this day and age that to me, counts for a lot.


Thank you sir.


----------



## James Bagguley

Hey man! Thanks to you too, maybe there are a ton of different ways to do things and a ton of things to achieve results with, but people willing to show a reliable trustworthy way to do things with a globally available combo for free? hmmn!? there arent as many of those


----------



## kamakaz1961

xonxon said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Been following this forum for a while and after a failed attempt with rexin and hand-polishing I gave up and went for a Das 6 pro.
> 
> I started out on a crap daily, shine came out quite nice, did not bother with swirls. After that I did my mk1 mx5 where I managed to reduce the number of swirls by say 80%. I was told that its an old car and should leave it as is.
> 
> Yesterday I started out SWMBO's 3 year old black mazda 2. The swirls were being massively improving but there was still a few (Hexlogic white and Megs 205), I turned to Hexlogic orange with megs 105. A 50:50 later, the side where I did the 105 seemed worse than the other, did two hits of 205 with the white pad again on the whole panel but the bit where I did the 105 still looks worse than the bit where I just did it with the 205.
> 
> I'm moving around 1cm per second, covering 50% each time, doing 6 to 8 passes per part of panel(tailgate was split in 2 sections), and doing this all twice, running speed 6 and pressing just enough for the motor to change its noise and slow down slightly. Not using more than 3 pea sized drops of polish.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what I'm missing?
> 
> Sorry no pics, will do the bonnet next weekend and send pics.
> 
> Thanks in advance


You should go to You tube and look at Junkman2000 video's. He has a 5 part video specifically for polishing. I am assuming you are using a PC 7424 XP. I would look into how much product you are putting in the pad. If there is too much then you are not doing anything. Again, look at Junkman2000 videos on You tube. They are extremely informative and he is funny to and he tells it like it is...NO BS. 
:buffer:


----------



## kamakaz1961

Junkman2008 said:


> If that's the case, you did NOT pay attention when you watched them, you did not watch them more than once and you did not take notes. That the 3 things that I tell all novices to do. I can tell that by what you posted in your initial post. In my videos, I say numerous times that *technique trumps product every time.* If you watched my videos and call yourself doing what I did, then you're doing it wrong. For that reason, I'm going to send you back to those videos and advise you to *take notes* when you watch them this time. If you missed what you misstated in your initial post then there's no telling how much other stuff you've missed. The people who want to help you within this thread are assuming that you are doing this properly. I clearly see that your technique is completely wrong.
> 
> So back to the videos for you mate and this time, do EXACTLY as I say and show, and don't mix in things that are NOT part of my technique. You learn more about how to master this stuff by figuring out what you are doing wrong than if I tell you so that's why I'm sending you back to the videos. Start with video ONE.


The Junkman2000 is right....BOYS and GIRLS!!!....LOL I watch his videos many times and always pick up something I have missed. The good thing is my paint is perfect as of today!!!:wave:


----------



## cheekymonkey

kamakaz1961 said:


> The Junkman2000 is right....BOYS and GIRLS!!!....LOL I watch his videos many times and always pick up something I have missed. The good thing is my paint is perfect as of today!!!:wave:


means nothing without pictures :thumb:


----------



## cheekymonkey

James Bagguley said:


> Okay, this sucks! Maybe Junkmans initial response to Xonxon could be construed as a little harsh, but i think maybe he felt so too, and post #23 showed as much with his replies.
> 
> *Perhaps a US built Toyota has different clear coat consistency,* so i personally could see that as being no fault on JM's part for citing it as an example.
> 
> Coupled to that, describing use of a rotary polisher to correct such paint is clearly testament to the consistency of clear coat on that particular car.
> 
> Sorry to buck the trend here, as it seems to be turning into some sort of witch hunt, but i cant forget the fact that this man has provided a good solid grounding in products and techniques to many for free, and in this day and age that to me, counts for a lot.


i go on american detailing sites and its well know that jap paint is soft :thumb: just 1 of many
http://www.autopiaforums.com/forums...2002-toyota-echo-1-step-lsp-ready-pf2500.html


----------



## Welshquattro1

James Bagguley said:


> Hey man! Thanks to you too, maybe there are a ton of different ways to do things and a ton of things to achieve results with, but people willing to show a reliable trustworthy way to do things with a globally available combo for free? hmmn!? there arent as many of those


I couldn't agree more, if it wasn't for junkman video's on You tube a lot of people wouldn't have even dared have a go at polishing. His videos are full of useful tips and he explains it well. Thanks junkman and I for one will keep watching your videos. :thumb:


----------



## kamakaz1961

Junkman2008 said:


> I was tackling paint when you were in diapers son. I have nothing to prove to you.


LMAO Junkman2000 I am old, but you taught this OLD DOG how to polish!! HOWEVER, Now I have a major problem cause of you!!! I am obsessed with keeping my car paint perfect!! Shame on you!!! Now a couple of my buddies will no longer take there cars to any car wash (hand or machine) cause I made their paint perfect!!

Now I WASH their cars!!! I do enjoy it though.

All kidding aside your videos have taught me well. Foam Gun 2-bucket wash, PC 7424 XP, Flex 3401 VRG, etc.

Now let's see if you can guess my age I am probably the same age as you....

Do you remember these bands: Parliment, Bootsi Collins, Earth Wind and Fire, Led Zepplin, Kool and the Gang, CC&R......LOL Have an awesome day!!

:buffer:


----------



## James Bagguley

cheekymonkey said:


> i go on american detailing sites and its well know that jap paint is soft :thumb: just 1 of many
> http://www.autopiaforums.com/forums...2002-toyota-echo-1-step-lsp-ready-pf2500.html


Hey bud! Certainly dont want to pick a fight, but that sort of cements Junkmans argument if the US built models have the same makeup 

That said, i personally havent got much experience under my belt, but having used the same products and techniques on a Ford and a Honda, good results can certainly be had with the JM method.

As stated above, i wonder if the fleabay pads might be standing in the way of Xonxon and his desired finish?


----------



## kamakaz1961

Junkman2008 said:


>


Wow cheesemonkey must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed!! This is a forum to gain knowledge and get better at technique. If you do not like Junkman2000's technique or advice then move on!!! No need to get mean for the Junkman2000 helping someone out on this forum. Cheesemonkey needs to take a chill pill or the pill to get out of Zion!! Go back to the Matrix Cheesemonkey!!! Take the blue pill!! Don't come back!!!!

BTW, Junkman2000 will know what I am talking about especially if you follow his videos on Youtube

LOL

As a California dude will say: Peace Make Love!!! Butterflies are Free!

Cheesemonkey move on!!


----------



## cheekymonkey

James Bagguley said:


> Hey bud! Certainly dont want to pick a fight, *but that sort of cements Junkmans argument if the US built models have the same makeup *
> 
> That said, i personally havent got much experience under my belt, but having used the same products and techniques on a Ford and a Honda, good results can certainly be had with the JM method.
> 
> As stated above, i wonder if the fleabay pads might be standing in the way of Xonxon and his desired finish?


did you not read the bit about the car having soft jap paint being.
Xonxon paint is soft so needs to use the right technique which is not the one he has been using. You can only get the right technique by knowing and understanding soft jap paint. Junkman said himself he's not had any experience with soft paint so how would he know how to get the best out of it Ge03 gave some good advise and junkman pulled him to bits for it.
There are many good detailers in America who have worked with soft jap paint,


----------



## cheekymonkey

kamakaz1961 said:


> Wow cheesemonkey must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed!! This is a forum to gain knowledge and get better at technique. If you do not like Junkman2000's technique or advice then move on!!! No need to get mean for the Junkman2000 helping someone out on this forum. Cheesemonkey needs to take a chill pill or the pill to get out of Zion!! Go back to the Matrix Cheesemonkey!!! Take the blue pill!! Don't come back!!!!
> 
> BTW, Junkman2000 will know what I am talking about especially if you follow his videos on Youtube
> 
> LOL
> 
> As a California dude will say: Peace Make Love!!! Butterflies are Free!
> 
> Cheesemonkey move on!!


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: you can't even get his name right :wall::wall::wall:
i have not called you or junkman2008 names so why should you. if you cant be adult about it then dont bother as you come across as childish. 
the advise he was given was wrong for soft paint, the advise given was given by someone who has no knowledge of soft paint 
So your from California the same place as the jap soft paint car in the link


----------



## James Bagguley

cheekymonkey said:


> did you not read the bit about the car having soft jap paint being.
> Xonxon paint is soft so needs to use the right technique which is not the one he has been using. You can only get the right technique by knowing and understanding soft jap paint. Junkman said himself he's not had any experience with soft paint so how would he know how to get the best out of it Ge03 gave some good advise and junkman pulled him to bits for it.
> There are many good detailers in America who have worked with soft jap paint,


I did indeed sir, i meant that if US built Japanese brand cars have the same paint as elsewhere, then the Camry JM worked on would be valid proof of point.

I do accept he was maybe a little tough on some of the other posters, but perhaps it is a case of too many cooks... etc.
Trying too many ideas on a finite amount of paint might prove costly in a number of ways, i know this is a forum though, so granted there will likely be several different approaches suggested as a remedy.

Right, im toast, bed.


----------



## kamakaz1961

cheekymonkey said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: you can't even get his name right :wall::wall::wall:
> i have not called you or junkman2008 names so why should you. if you cant be adult about it then dont bother as you come across as childish.
> the advise he was given was wrong for soft paint, the advise given was given by someone who has no knowledge of soft paint
> So your from California the same place as the jap soft paint car in the link


Cheesemonkey you come off as an arrogant person slamming everyone and Jap cars....I take offense to that because I am 1/2 ASIAN and American, You are the childesh one that keeps on trash talking Like I said before if you do not agree with Junkmans Technique or anyone else move on. BTW, what name did I call you? I said for you to move on.


----------



## Adi_328

Edit...


----------



## cheekymonkey

kamakaz1961 said:


> Cheesemonkey you come off as an arrogant person slamming everyone and Jap cars....I take offense to that because I am 1/2 ASIAN and American, You are the childesh one that keeps on trash talking Like I said before if you do not agree with Junkmans Technique or anyone else move on. BTW, what name did I call you? I said for you to move on.


think you got yourself a bit confused, slamming jap cars ? i own 2 jap cars and love them, this is a forum where people discuss and share there experiences and technique i have experience with soft paint as junkman himself said he has no experience of soft paint and just because my opinions differ to junkman and you dont like it,well that is your problem. if you cant put any helpfull advise then it is you who should take your own advise and move on.


----------



## Adi_328

kamakaz1961 said:


> LMAO Junkman2000 I am old, but you taught this OLD DOG how to polish!! HOWEVER, Now I have a major problem cause of you!!! I am obsessed with keeping my car paint perfect!! Shame on you!!! Now a couple of my buddies will no longer take there cars to any car wash (hand or machine) cause I made their paint perfect!!
> 
> Now I WASH their cars!!! I do enjoy it though.
> 
> All kidding aside your videos have taught me well. Foam Gun 2-bucket wash, PC 7424 XP, Flex 3401 VRG, etc.
> 
> Now let's see if you can guess my age I am probably the same age as you....
> 
> Do you remember these bands: Parliment, Bootsi Collins, Earth Wind and Fire, Led Zepplin, Kool and the Gang, CC&R......LOL Have an awesome day!!
> 
> :buffer:


 some proper b a l l s u c k i n g in this post hehe next in line is a love letter lol


----------



## cheekymonkey

Adi_328 said:


> Edit...


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## cheekymonkey

Adi_328 said:


> some proper b a l l s u c k i n g in this post hehe next in line is a love letter lol


what is funny is how he askes junkman to guess how old he is and his user name ends 1961 :lol::lol::lol::wall::wall:
errrrrrrrrrrrm give us a clue


----------



## cheekymonkey

xonxon said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Been following this forum for a while and after a failed attempt with rexin and hand-polishing I gave up and went for a Das 6 pro.
> 
> I started out on a crap daily, shine came out quite nice, did not bother with swirls. After that I did my mk1 mx5 where I managed to reduce the number of swirls by say 80%. I was told that its an old car and should leave it as is.
> 
> Yesterday I started out SWMBO's 3 year old black mazda 2. The swirls were being massively improving but there was still a few (Hexlogic white and Megs 205), I turned to Hexlogic orange with megs 105. A 50:50 later, the side where I did the 105 seemed worse than the other, did two hits of 205 with the white pad again on the whole panel but the bit where I did the 105 still looks worse than the bit where I just did it with the 205.
> 
> I'm moving around 1cm per second, covering 50% each time, doing 6 to 8 passes per part of panel(tailgate was split in 2 sections), and doing this all twice, running speed 6 and pressing just enough for the motor to change its noise and slow down slightly. Not using more than 3 pea sized drops of polish.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what I'm missing?
> 
> Sorry no pics, will do the bonnet next weekend and send pics.
> 
> Thanks in advance


the best advise i can give you is enroll in a class where not only can they show you how to use a machine they are also there to see if you are doing it right. They can also asses your paint and advise the best technique for your own paint.
If you dont want to enroll in classes i would advise you to get a scrap panel to practice on. Your car has soft paint and from experience it doesn't take much to spoil it even with a da


----------



## kamakaz1961

cheekymonkey said:


> what is funny is how he askes junkman to guess how old he is and his user name ends 1961 :lol::lol::lol::wall::wall:
> errrrrrrrrrrrm give us a clue


LMAO!!!!!!! Doh!!!!! Just call me Homer, Homer Simpson!!!!!! I think the kamakaz (without the e) gave you the clue I was Asian too!!!! LOL Got me!!!

Have a wonderful evening and take care Cheesemonkey!!

I will say this as I always do on this site....I joined this site because I think you, me, the Junkman and everyone here are passionate about making there cars perfect even though we might squabble a bit!! We all agree on 1 thing....we do not like machine car washes or hand car washes and we do not let anyone touch our cars!!!

Now I personally LOVE the wax made in England I like the story of how they are made and the passion on why it was made. Bouncer's Capture the Rapture for one!! I like their Story!

Peace!!! :thumb: 
:detailer:


----------



## cheekymonkey

jamie_s said:


> same combo


good old lpg


----------



## Alex L

kamakaz1961 said:


> Cheesemonkey you come off as an arrogant person slamming everyone and Jap cars....I take offense to that because I am 1/2 ASIAN and American, You are the childesh one that keeps on trash talking Like I said before if you do not agree with Junkmans Technique or anyone else move on. BTW, what name did I call you? I said for you to move on.


Only one person here has resorted to childish replies and it isn't the Monkey:thumb:



kamakaz1961 said:


> LMAO!!!!!!! Doh!!!!! Just call me Homer, Homer Simpson!!!!!! I think the kamakaz (without the e) gave you the clue I was Asian too!!!! LOL Got me!!!


TBH unless you'd told us I'd imagine not many would have realised that :thumb:

Now can we all play nice before the pictures of "ladies" start :thumb:


----------



## -Raven-

Junkman2008 said:


> Haters Gonna Hate! - YouTube





Junkman2008 said:


>





Junkman2008 said:


>


----------



## James Bagguley

I bet Xonxon did not envisage his thread turning out the way it has 

Got the wrong end of the stick there, as Xonxon stated that the Fleabay pads were used on his DD not the Mazda so, my bad there!

Mr Monkey makes a good suggestion about trying a course, another idea is perhaps seeing if another DW member can come and give some "hands on" assistance, either way i hope you find the means to attain the results you are hoping for.

Oh, and IBTL anyone?


----------



## Kerr

Junkman seems a right character. 

Certainly doesn't lack confidence, but it does come across as arrogant and often rude. 

The Lambo video is hysterical. Cringeworthy though. Not many folk would have the balls and swagger to do that.

Maybe he should have the first celebrity detailing show and get some of these celebrity chefs off the TV?


----------



## Flakey

-Raven- said:


> That is the Dumbest Answer I've Ever Heard.wmv - YouTube


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## cheekymonkey

James Bagguley said:


> I bet Xonxon did not envisage his thread turning out the way it has
> 
> Got the wrong end of the stick there, as Xonxon stated that the Fleabay pads were used on his DD not the Mazda so, my bad there!
> 
> Mr Monkey makes a good suggestion about trying a course, another idea is perhaps seeing if another DW member can come and give some "hands on" assistance, either way i hope you find the means to attain the results you are hoping for.
> 
> Oh, and IBTL anyone?


good idea with the DW member, thats what the forum is all about :thumb:. what ever way someone chooses to learn use a scrap panel to practice even if your only using a DA its a lot cheaper then a respray


----------



## cheekymonkey

-Raven- said:


> That is the Dumbest Answer I've Ever Heard.wmv - YouTube


:lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## cheekymonkey

kamakaz1961 said:


> LMAO!!!!!!! Doh!!!!! Just call me Homer, Homer Simpson!!!!!! I think the kamakaz (without the e) gave you the clue I was Asian too!!!! LOL Got me!!!
> 
> Have a wonderful evening and take care Cheesemonkey!!
> 
> I will say this as I always do on this site....I joined this site because I think you, me, the Junkman and everyone here are passionate about making there cars perfect even though we might squabble a bit!! We all agree on 1 thing....we do not like machine car washes or hand car washes and we do not let anyone touch our cars!!!
> 
> Now I personally LOVE the wax made in England I like the story of how they are made and the passion on why it was made. Bouncer's Capture the Rapture for one!! I like their Story!
> 
> Peace!!! :thumb:
> :detailer:


if you like our waxes you must try rubbish boys original :thumb:


----------



## B17BLG

Lol hard and soft paint is a myth!! Lol just lol!!


----------



## B17BLG

And if that is the case then surely there should be two levels of polish, cut & fine

nothing more too complicate things


----------



## xonxon

Me again,

Watched all 4 videos, and below are the things which I am not doing 100%

I am claying very well, but not using the plastic bag to thest the paint - alas, there is no resistance from dirt on the paint

Spot of 1.5 square feet, I was doing something close to two square feet.

shake well - I always shook the product, not sure if well - will make an extra effort.

speed 5 - at times I think I was bumping it up to 6, but not using a porter cable, mine is a Das 6 pro

when you prime you were using 4 drops and then 3, I was using 3 drops then two, and I think my drops are smaller than yours, peas in Europe are not that large

polish flashing - I did not remember that, but the cars in question are not jacked up, they have shine

too much pressure, will get bathroom scales and try to get somewhere within the 4kg range, the pressure I was applying was enough to slow the marker line made with a black marker to turn around slowly, maybe once every 2 seconds tops

megs 105 was making even more swils, and deeper ones - the car is a grey import and the dealer most probably polished with g3 hard compound. Should I only use 205 as I believe that the results with 205 alone are enough, will try to get pics over the weekend.



Junkman2008 said:


> If that's the case, you did NOT pay attention when you watched them, you did not watch them more than once and you did not take notes. That the 3 things that I tell all novices to do. I can tell that by what you posted in your initial post. In my videos, I say numerous times that *technique trumps product every time.* If you watched my videos and call yourself doing what I did, then you're doing it wrong. For that reason, I'm going to send you back to those videos and advise you to *take notes* when you watch them this time. If you missed what you misstated in your initial post then there's no telling how much other stuff you've missed. The people who want to help you within this thread are assuming that you are doing this properly. I clearly see that your technique is completely wrong.
> 
> So back to the videos for you mate and this time, do EXACTLY as I say and show, and don't mix in things that are NOT part of my technique. You learn more about how to master this stuff by figuring out what you are doing wrong than if I tell you so that's why I'm sending you back to the videos. Start with video ONE.


----------



## Junkman2008

xonxon said:


> Me again,
> 
> Watched all 4 videos, and below are the things which I am not doing 100%
> 
> I am claying very well, but not using the plastic bag to thest the paint - alas, there is no resistance from dirt on the paint.


So you understand the importance of insuring that ALL of the contamination has been removed from the paint BEFORE you start polishing the paint. You don't want to grind dirt into the paint with the polisher, which will create new damage.



xonxon said:


> Spot of 1.5 square feet, I was doing something close to two square feet.


*Size matters! *With the amount of polish that you were using, you were basically "dry buffing" your paint. *That is NOT a good thing to do as you will again create paint damage*. It won't necessarily look like swirls but it really shows up in black paint when you do that.



xonxon said:


> shake well - I always shook the product, not sure if well - will make an extra effort.


Do that because Meguiar's polishes and compounds love to separate inside their bottles.



xonxon said:


> speed 5 - at times I think I was bumping it up to 6, but not using a porter cable, mine is a Das 6 pro.


*Doesn't matter in this case because both machines are darn near identical.* Buffing at higher speeds works the polish harder and faster. Since you were not using the correct amount of polish, you were really creating some damage, especially when you were using M105. So not enough compound at too fast of a speed on an aggressive pad completely explains WHY M105 was doing MORE damage than it was fixing.



xonxon said:


> when you prime you were using 4 drops and then 3, I was using 3 drops then two, and I think my drops are smaller than yours, peas in Europe are not that large












Move to the country. They have bigger peas out there. 

Again, the amount of polish that you use is an important part of my technique. If you are going to do it the way I do it, *every part of the technique I use is equally important.*



xonxon said:


> polish flashing - I did not remember that, but the cars in question are not jacked up, they have shine


It doesn't matter if the car is jacked up or not, flashing is the key to knowing when you need to stop buffing! If you work past flashing, then you're dry buffing and creating paint damage. If you stop before flashing, you are not maximizing the ability of the polish and you're wasting polish also. That I explain in those videos.



xonxon said:


> too much pressure, will get bathroom scales and try to get somewhere within the 4kg range, the pressure I was applying was enough to slow the marker line made with a black marker to turn around slowly, maybe once every 2 seconds tops


Yes, that's way too much pressure when using my technique. The most important thing that you have to realize is that every part of the technique I use is very important, just as technique is as important to a golf swing, a bat swing, shooting a basketball or shooting a gun. One change can completely affect your results. Anyone who teaches technique knows that the hardest thing to do is unteach bad habits. So if you practice wrong, you will learn wrong and never be able to get it right. Some people need a 500-pound gorilla in a bottle to fix paint because their technique sucks. I can use any halfway decent product on the market to fix paint because my technique has been perfected over many years of *perfect practice*. Key word being PERFECT.



xonxon said:


> megs 105 was making even more swils, and deeper ones - the car is a grey import and the dealer most probably polished with g3 hard compound. Should I only use 205 as I believe that the results with 205 alone are enough, will try to get pics over the weekend.


Now you know WHY M105 was creating more damage. In medicine they have a saying. Just because 1X is good, doesn't mean that 2X is better. They also tell you to make sure that you take all the prescribed medicine the doctor gives you, even after you start feeling better. There is an exactness to a solid technique. There are different techniques that work and they depend on the TYPE of polisher you are using but I am only showing you one. A simple one that I have taught kids to use. Not only did I teach them that technique, I allowed them to buff on my cars with it. If they can learn, this will be a cake walk for you.


----------



## James Bagguley

Hey there, sorry to butt in (again ) but things got a bit crazy in this thread!

AJ, i have to say i feel it is most admirable of you to see past all that and still get to grips with the subject that began the thread in the first place.

When all is said and done, surely most people should be able to respect that.

Cheers!


----------



## Junkman2008

Thanks James. I'm here to help those who want the help. I can definitely see past everything else. I wish the Internet was around when I was learning this stuff. I would have looked past all the kids too.


----------



## S63

James Bagguley said:


> Hey there, sorry to butt in (again ) but things got a bit crazy in this thread!
> 
> AJ, i have to say i feel it is most admirable of you to see past all that and still get to grips with the subject that began the thread in the first place.
> 
> When all is said and done, surely most people should be able to respect that.
> 
> Cheers!


Most people would respect that but there's always one or two that do all within their power to derail a thread normally resulting in closure, fortunately they haven't succeeded here.......so far.


----------



## -Raven-

xonxon said:


> megs 105 was making even more swils, and deeper ones - the car is a grey import and the dealer most probably polished with g3 hard compound. Should I only use 205 as I believe that the results with 205 alone are enough, will try to get pics over the weekend.


ignore all the crap and everything else written in this thread and think about this for a moment. Why the hell do you want to use the really heavy hitter M105 on the poor soft paint? You've answered your own question - look at the results you are getting with the finishing polish M205. 

As far as M105 goes, it can be horrible to use even for the experienced. Its good for short quick sets, and even then it can dust. That's why I prefer the Megs Ultimate Compound or there's even the M101 (not that you need to use these...) Much nicer to use. :thumb:

Oh, and another reason to take it easy, besides your Mazda having soft paint, it will also have extremely thin paint from factory. We talking 60-70 micron. Don't go hitting the crap out of it with a extremely hard hitting compound just for the sake of it. I've rarely come across Japanese paint from any manufacturer that requires such heavy treatment, and I pretty much exclusively work on Japanese paint too. 

.


----------



## Trip tdi

Very well said Raven you are spot on the mark with your explanation and words :thumb: could not have said it better than yourself.


----------



## cheekymonkey

-Raven- said:


> ignore all the crap and everything else written in this thread and think about this for a moment. Why the hell do you want to use the really heavy hitter M105 on the poor soft paint? You've answered your own question - look at the results you are getting with the finishing polish M205.
> 
> As far as M105 goes, it can be horrible to use even for the experienced. Its good for short quick sets, and even then it can dust. That's why I prefer the Megs Ultimate Compound or there's even the M101 (not that you need to use these...) Much nicer to use. :thumb:
> 
> Oh, and another reason to take it easy, besides your Mazda having soft paint, it will also have extremely thin paint from factory. We talking 60-70 micron. Don't go hitting the crap out of it with a extremely hard hitting compound just for the sake of it. I've rarely come across Japanese paint from any manufacturer that requires such heavy treatment, and I pretty much exclusively work on Japanese paint too.
> 
> .


yep you need to work with jap paint to understand jap paint :thumb:


----------



## Carshine

I haven't been detailing cars for more than 10 years, but I know it's a huge difference between soft asian and hard german clearcoats. Same thing with Volvo, my experience is that they are really tough working with.

So calling it a myth is def wrong.


----------



## Junkman2008

Carshine said:


> I haven't been detailing cars for more than 10 years, but I know it's a huge difference between soft asian and hard german clearcoats. Same thing with Volvo, my experience is that they are really tough working with.
> 
> So calling it a myth is def wrong.


So how many Asian cars manufactured in America have you worked on? That question goes to the rest of you so called experts? How many?


----------



## -Raven-

Junkman2008 said:


> So how many Asian cars manufactured in America have you worked on? That question goes to the rest of you so called experts? How many?


um, who cares?

Are they Asian cars if they manufactured in America?

Has the OP got an American manufactured car?

Where you going to be when the OP needs a respray? :tumbleweed:


----------



## -Raven-

I'm not arguing and what is there to discuss? We talking about soft Japanese paint here. Something you've obviously never worked with, no matter how loud your mouth is. Soft paint is a myth? Seriously? :tumbleweed:

Instead of crying about the OP not using M105 properly, you should be asking why he is using it in the first place. You don't need to be a genius to see that. 

Your hater crap is getting old very quick too. Grow up. You know you're wrong.


----------



## Alex L

post 106



Second going careful with compounds on thin Japanese paint


----------



## bradleymarky

I have a question regarding the speed of the pad/plate. I marked the backing plate with a marker pen and even on speed 4 with quite a bit of pressure its going really fast, as the OP said, should it be going around once every 2 seconds ?

Do i need to apply more pressure to slow the rotation down or is spinning around like a mad thing acceptable.


----------



## piston_warrior

Junkman2008 said:


> So how many Asian cars manufactured in America have you worked on? That question goes to the rest of you so called experts? How many?


But the OP is not correcting an Asian car that has been manufactured in America. He's correcting soft Asian paint that hasn't been manufactured in America. How many of those have you worked on?


----------



## Junkman2008

bradleymarky said:


> I have a question regarding the speed of the pad/plate. I marked the backing plate with a marker pen and even on speed 4 with quite a bit of pressure its going really fast, as the OP said, should it be going around once every 2 seconds ?
> 
> Do i need to apply more pressure to slow the rotation down or is spinning around like a mad thing acceptable.


Watch the speed of the black mark on my pad as I buff in the videos that I linked to. Explaining it with a visual aid is a lot more comprehensive than words.


----------



## James Bagguley

No sarcasm/aggravation intended, it just seems to me that Xonxon and JM think it is technique rather than product that could be the issue here. 

I just wondered if you more experienced folks would say that 105/Orange route was going to cause problems beyond the scope of fixing with a finishing polish?
After all, surely the aggressive combo is still less harsh than sanding or similar, it just seems that if anything the polish itself is unlikely to be the problem.

"Incoming!"
(runs for cover! :lol


----------



## Leebo310

In addition to a few "possibly unrelated comments" in this thread , there's a hell of a lot of good advice that Junkman is giving. 
Opinions on different paint hardness isn't really an issue, surely the main point here is that technique is key and Junkman has pointed out certain flaws in the OP's (such as amount of polish, area size etc)
OP has also acknowledged this so almost everything else is irrelevant!

From a personal opinion his videos have helped me out massively. To have that sort of massively in depth analysis, detail and guides (plus all free of charge!) is something that I am very grateful for!


----------



## bradleymarky

Junkman2008 said:


> Watch the speed of the black mark on my pad as I buff in the videos that I linked to. Explaining it with a visual aid is a lot more comprehensive than words.


Thanks, I dont think my mark on the backing plate is going around any faster than the holes in yours :thumb:
I cant do the bathroom scales test due to the wife not wanting any


----------



## -Raven-

Leebo310 said:


> Opinions on different paint hardness isn't really an issue, surely the main point here is that technique is key and Junkman has pointed out certain flaws in the OP's (such as amount of polish, area size etc)
> OP has also acknowledged this so almost everything else is irrelevant!


You're kidding right? 

My car has holograms.... Better get the 600 grit sand paper out! I'll use the correct technique! :thumb:


----------



## -Raven-

James Bagguley said:


> No sarcasm/aggravation intended, it just seems to me that Xonxon and JM think it is technique rather than product that could be the issue here.
> 
> I just wondered if you more experienced folks would say that 105/Orange route was going to cause problems beyond the scope of fixing with a finishing polish?
> After all, surely the aggressive combo is still less harsh than sanding or similar, it just seems that if anything the polish itself is unlikely to be the problem.
> 
> "Incoming!"
> (runs for cover! :lol


if you could get the results with a finishing polish, would you use one of the heaviest cut compounds on the market instead?

The wrong product with any technique is still the wrong product.


----------



## B17BLG

Junkman2008 said:


> So how many Asian cars manufactured in America have you worked on? That question goes to the rest of you so called experts? How many?


Zero

Because I don't live in America, neither does the OP.

Look at this way Junkman, you learn something new every day..... EVEN YOU!!!

You just learnt that here in the UK we have varying levels of paint hardness 

Glad we could of helped you...

Now I'm off to make a video and put it on youtube for you:thumb:


----------



## Leebo310

-Raven- said:


> You're kidding right?
> 
> My car has holograms.... Better get the 600 grit sand paper out! I'll use the correct technique! :thumb:


Why am I kidding? 
Technique to get rid of holograms isn't sandpaper unless I'm massively misinformed?


----------



## -Raven-

Leebo310 said:


> Why am I kidding?
> Technique to get rid of holograms isn't sandpaper unless I'm massively misinformed?


the technique isn't M105 either.


----------



## Starbuck88

I'm buying a DA in the next day or 2 and threads like this scare the bajeezus out of me...I've watched the JM Videos and I've also seen some of his replies over the forum...

One man says this, another man says that...

Quick question....sure the technique is important but surely the product you use is equally as important? 

As been mentioned in this thread, surely you want to use the least aggressive stuff you can to sort out paint, then move it up a notch so to speak/abrasiveness if you're not getting anywhere? Then when you've sorted the swirls you then bring it back down to finish with something like Menzerna Final Finish on a Black pad to bring the gloss out?

Threads like this make it sound like rocket science but it isn't right? 

Surely a bit of common sense and a basic understanding that course stuff takes more clear coat away on softer cars and inflicts buffing swirls and on harder paint it might be needed to even touch it, would give you a good idea on how to do this???

Sanding a blob of Playdough is gonna be different to sanding some Oak wood...(bit exaggerated but maybe see the point)....


----------



## Alex L

Leebo310 said:


> Opinions on different paint hardness isn't really an issue, surely the main point here is that technique is key and Junkman has pointed out certain flaws in the OP's (such as amount of polish, area size etc)
> OP has also acknowledged this so almost everything else is irrelevant!


Surely the best technique is to start with the least aggressive product first and work backwards?????

Not to go straight for a compound when it's not needed and sometimes sticking with the least aggressive polish and switching up the cut by changing to a pad with more cut can work wonders.

The trouble with JM videos is it looks quite warm there and polishes do work differently in cold damp conditions compared to warm and dry, aswell as working inside compared to outside.

If Matty was to polish half his car in his garage and then do the other half on his driveway we'd have a funny thread to read.

The best way really for the OP to get an idea of where hes going wrong would be to post a video of what hes doing and it'd give people a better idea of what exactly is wrong.


----------



## Alex L

asonda said:


> I'm buying a DA in the next day or 2 and threads like this scare the bajeezus out of me...I've watched the JM Videos and I've also seen some of his replies over the forum...
> 
> One man says this, another man says that...
> 
> Quick question....sure the technique is important but surely the product you use is equally as important?
> 
> As been mentioned in this thread, surely you want to use the least aggressive stuff you can to sort out paint, then move it up a notch so to speak/abrasiveness if you're not getting anywhere? Then when you've sorted the swirls you then bring it back down to finish with something like Menzerna Final Finish on a Black pad to bring the gloss out?
> 
> Threads like this make it sound like rocket science but it isn't right?
> 
> Surely a bit of common sense and a basic understanding that course stuff takes more clear coat away on softer cars and inflicts buffing swirls and on harder paint it might be needed to even touch it, would give you a good idea on how to do this???
> 
> Sanding a blob of Playdough is gonna be different to sanding some Oak wood...(bit exaggerated but maybe see the point)....


Exactly, it's that straight forward :thumb:

Makes me laugh when people post up about getting a DA and all the replies consist of is' you must practice on 400 scrap panels and take every course possible before you can even think about polishing your car.

Hardly any of the original members did this as we just got on with and read as much as we could and took the least aggressive route first and slowly worked up from there.


----------



## bradleymarky

asonda said:


> I'm buying a DA in the next day or 2 and threads like this scare the bajeezus out of me...I've watched the JM Videos and I've also seen some of his replies over the forum...
> 
> One man says this, another man says that...
> 
> Quick question....sure the technique is important but surely the product you use is equally as important?
> 
> As been mentioned in this thread, surely you want to use the least aggressive stuff you can to sort out paint, then move it up a notch so to speak/abrasiveness if you're not getting anywhere? Then when you've sorted the swirls you then bring it back down to finish with something like Menzerna Final Finish on a Black pad to bring the gloss out?
> 
> Threads like this make it sound like rocket science but it isn't right?
> 
> Surely a bit of common sense and a basic understanding that course stuff takes more clear coat away on softer cars and inflicts buffing swirls and on harder paint it might be needed to even touch it, would give you a good idea on how to do this???
> 
> Sanding a blob of Playdough is gonna be different to sanding some Oak wood...(bit exaggerated but maybe see the point)....


I started on the vans at work and got to grips with it pretty quickly, you cant do much damage with a DA.
The Wife has to change the plugs at home because i`m useless at DIY so if i can do it anybody can :doublesho


----------



## Berylburton

Alex L said:


> Exactly, it's that straight forward :thumb:
> 
> Makes me laugh when people post up about getting a DA and all the replies consist of is' you must practice on 400 scrap panels and take every course possible before you can even think about polishing your car.
> 
> Hardly any of the original members did this as we just got on with and read as much as we could and took the least aggressive route first and slowly worked up from there.


That is exactly what I did. My first practice with with Autoglym SRP on a polishing pad to get the feel of the tool. I was very happy with the results of that!

To start the corrections I used a Black Hexlogic and 205. then tried Green. Then bought some ultimate compound and used it on black. Then Green. After which 205 on Black left a dreamy smooth finish.

I found UC was in fact a nice product to work with and leaves a very nice finish. I have you use a IPA to wipe it down afterwards to get rid of the oils but I very please with the results.
I did watch the Junkman vids and followed his techniques the best I could. I am very pleased with the results.

Junkman has given a lot of help to me and I am grateful for that.


----------



## Leebo310

Alex L said:


> Surely the best technique is to start with the least aggressive product first and work backwards?????
> 
> Not to go straight for a compound when it's not needed and sometimes sticking with the least aggressive polish and switching up the cut by changing to a pad with more cut can work wonders.


Think you've missed off a question mark mate 

To be fair that's what the original poster did do to an extent
"The swirls were being massively improving but there was still a few (Hexlogic white and Megs 205), I turned to Hexlogic orange with megs 105"

Ok so maybe it's up for interpretation that he shouldn't have used that compound on that pad immediately after but are we really saying that it's now impossible for him to fix this using the pads and polishes he has???



Alex L said:


> The best way really for the OP to get an idea of where hes going wrong would be to post a video of what hes doing and it'd give people a better idea of what exactly is wrong.


Agree mate totally!


----------



## -Raven-

Leebo310 said:


> To be fair that's what the original poster did do to an extent
> "The swirls were being massively improving but there was still a few (Hexlogic white and Megs 205), I turned to Hexlogic orange with megs 105"


now read this over and over again, then ask yourself what product would you use to get your technique right?



Leebo310 said:


> Ok so maybe it's up for interpretation that he shouldn't have used that compound on that pad immediately after but are we really saying that it's now impossible for him to fix this using the pads and polishes he has???


we aren't saying it can't be fixed. We are saying it shouldn't have been done in the first place. But that's not the problem - the problem is JM sooking about M105 technique when it should be on using the M205!

That's not saying anything about paint hardness or thickness either.


----------



## Starbuck88

Alex L said:


> Exactly, it's that straight forward :thumb:
> 
> Makes me laugh when people post up about getting a DA and all the replies consist of is' you must practice on 400 scrap panels and take every course possible before you can even think about polishing your car.
> 
> Hardly any of the original members did this as we just got on with and read as much as we could and took the least aggressive route first and slowly worked up from there.


I am finding it truly bizarre, been having a back and forth with a chap on here 'B1ue52' who after chatting with him when I put up in a thread I wanted to learn how to use a DA, he kindly PM'd me and asked what I'd like to know, that it came apparent very quickly that all this scaremongering and outrageous advice was just that and could be safely ignored....and the use of a bit of common sense!

Obviously some don't have that capacity so surely good advice needs to be given...

I think there is far too much conflicting advice from people who DO GENUINELY know what they're doing then those that like to talk a good game, try to take the high horse and come unstuck at some point down the line  but the novice who is a bit scared of this, will take the 'know it alls' advice over the gentleman that rarely speaks up but knows what he's talking about.

Is a shame as things escalate so quickly and the poor chap just wants to know in simple terms what he's doing wrong.


----------



## bradleymarky

asonda said:


> I am finding it truly bizarre, been having a back and forth with a chap on here 'B1ue52' who after chatting with him when I put up in a thread I wanted to learn how to use a DA, he kindly PM'd me and asked what I'd like to know, that it came apparent very quickly that all this scaremongering and outrageous advice was just that and could be safely ignored....and the use of a bit of common sense!
> 
> Obviously some don't have that capacity so surely good advice needs to be given...
> 
> I think there is far too much conflicting advice from people who DO GENUINELY know what they're doing then those that like to talk a good game, try to take the high horse and come unstuck at some point down the line  but the novice who is a bit scared of this, will take the 'know it alls' advice over the gentleman that rarely speaks up but knows what he's talking about.
> 
> Is a shame as things escalate so quickly and the poor chap just wants to know in simple terms what he's doing wrong.


This ^ there does seem to be a lot of scare mongering regarding the use of the DA.

Its not rocket sciemce really, watch the videos and take notice of the folk that do it on a daily basis.

Start off slow with the weakest combo and you`ll not go far wrong :thumb:


----------



## Leebo310

-Raven- said:


> now read this over and over again, then ask yourself what product would you use to get your technique right?


Wouldn't use either product, I would create a new thread on DW asking how to get my technique right obviously 



-Raven- said:


> we aren't saying it can't be fixed. We are saying it shouldn't have been done in the first place. But that's not the problem - the problem is JM sooking about M105 technique when it should be on using the M205!


I understand that but isn't this just a difference of opinion that can only be proven either way by actually working on the car in question?
Junkman is saying that using 105 and that pad "correctly" wouldn't have resulted in this.
Whereas you guys are saying that the paint never needed to have 105 applied, and that 205 should've been enough to get the required finish.

Surely both of these opinions are correct?! :speechles


----------



## James Bagguley

Cant say this thread isnt entertaining, though after all that has been written it seems to be getting rather confusing as to what the original problem was, never mind a ********** solution to it.

As far as i see it, JM's videos and tuition are dealing with a worst case scenario (i.e. someone hopping up and busting a move on your paint ) assuming the situation is that which most people in their first time attempts at correction are going to be facing.

As stated, the OP progressed from a mild combination to a higher stage of cut, seems sound enough to me. 
I think Leebo310 and myself have both raised the point, that regardless of clear coat consistency and level of cut used, surely any marring etc. caused by even the most aggressive cutting combo is not beyond the scope of a finishing polish to rectify.

Oh i am so slow at typing, so just ignore this, we are past that already  :lol:


----------



## Sparkly

asonda said:


> I am finding it truly bizarre, been having a back and forth with a chap on here 'B1ue52' who after chatting with him when I put up in a thread I wanted to learn how to use a DA, he kindly PM'd me and asked what I'd like to know, that it came apparent very quickly that all this scaremongering and outrageous advice was just that and could be safely ignored....and the use of a bit of common sense!
> 
> Obviously some don't have that capacity so surely good advice needs to be given...
> 
> I think there is far too much conflicting advice from people who DO GENUINELY know what they're doing then those that like to talk a good game, try to take the high horse and come unstuck at some point down the line  but the novice who is a bit scared of this, will take the 'know it alls' advice over the gentleman that rarely speaks up but knows what he's talking about.
> 
> Is a shame as things escalate so quickly and the poor chap just wants to know in simple terms what he's doing wrong.


I think the help rather than hindrance point is very valid, I have read too many threads on here that are about contributors ego's rather than helping the OP.

Equally as much as it is likely a lot of people with medium/hard paint will have no issue following common sense law when first trialling their DA. I think this thread does at least show that it is important to DYOR on your vehicule as some paints require specific care and caution i.e. what is safe to near ineffective technique on Merc paint may well muller soft japanese paint ref'd in the thread.


----------



## -Raven-

Leebo310 said:


> I understand that but isn't this just a difference of opinion that can only be proven either way by actually working on the car in question?
> Junkman is saying that using 105 and that pad "correctly" wouldn't have resulted in this.
> Whereas you guys are saying that the paint never needed to have 105 applied, and that 205 should've been enough to get the required finish.
> 
> Surely both of these opinions are correct?! :speechles


who deals with soft paint all the time and owns a car with soft and sticky paint, and who has never seen soft paint before and says that soft paint is just a myth? :tumbleweed:

Trouble is people read this crap and think its ok to go hitting their car willy nilly with hard hitting compounds. It only ends in tears.... Just try that search button up the top of the page and see for yourself. It happens all the time. Don't take this the wrong way, but you're suckered in too. 

I'll ask again. If you can get the results with a finishing polish, why the hell would you even think about using one of the hardest hitting compounds on the market? Surely you must have learnt something along the way when learning about polishing? I've already told you how soft and thin Mazda paint is, do you really think compounding it and wasting what little clear coat is a good idea? You'll still have to use the finishing polish that worked in the first place to clean it up again! :wall:

But hey, don't take it from me, try using the search button..... see what the pro's and other experienced people are using on soft Japanese paint.....


----------



## -Raven-

James Bagguley said:


> Cant say this thread isnt entertaining, though after all that has been written it seems to be getting rather confusing as to what the original problem was, never mind a ********** solution to it.
> 
> As far as i see it, JM's videos and tuition are dealing with a worst case scenario (i.e. someone hopping up and busting a move on your paint ) assuming the situation is that which most people in their first time attempts at correction are going to be facing.
> 
> As stated, the OP progressed from a mild combination to a higher stage of cut, seems sound enough to me.
> I think Leebo310 and myself have both raised the point, that regardless of clear coat consistency and level of cut used, surely any marring etc. caused by even the most aggressive cutting combo is not beyond the scope of a finishing polish to rectify.
> 
> Oh i am so slow at typing, so just ignore this, we are past that already  :lol:


you've totally missed the point. It doesn't matter if you can fix it or not, you'll run into a point where you can't fix it. That point is very close when dealing with paint such as the OP. Something oblivious to noobs and JM. It'll end in tears.....

WTF happened to using the least aggressive product for the job? We laugh all the time at total hack jobs that cut the absolute crap out of paint, and here you are suggesting that its ok?


----------



## Leebo310

I haven't been suckered into anything mate, I'm just saying that it's opinion and everyone is entitled to one. 
So no one has ever used or will ever need to use 105 on Japanese paint then?
The op didn't get the results he wanted with a finishing polish so tried the other end of the spectrum and ended up worse evidently. You say it's because of product, junkman says technique and I'm saying that it realistically it's both.


----------



## Starbuck88

EDIT- I'm not going to bother  .....


----------



## -Raven-

Leebo310 said:


> I haven't been suckered into anything mate, I'm just saying that it's opinion and everyone is entitled to one.
> So no one has ever used or will ever need to use 105 on Japanese paint then?
> The op didn't get the results he wanted with a finishing polish so tried the other end of the spectrum and ended up worse evidently.


ignore this whole entire thread for a second and ask yourself this. If product A was giving massive improvement, and product B made it worse than when you first started, what would you focus on? Not a trick question......

There's a time and place for M105.



Leebo310 said:


> You say it's because of product, junkman says technique and I'm saying that it realistically it's both.


I'm saying he doesn't have to use M105, that much is obvious - couldn't care less if it was technique or product that did the damage. Wrong product with the best technique in the world is still the wrong product.


----------



## B17BLG

-Raven- said:


> ignore this whole entire thread for a second and ask yourself this. If product A was giving massive improvement, and product B made it worse than when you first started, what would you focus on? Not a trick question......
> 
> There's a time and place for M105.
> 
> I'm saying he doesn't have to use M105, that much is obvious - couldn't care less if it was technique or product that did the damage. *Wrong product with the best technique in the world is still the wrong product*.


Nail on the head


----------



## B17BLG

Its like saying i have massive RDS and Swirls.

Going to put a glaze on my cutting pad but use the correct technique.

You still aint gonna correct them because your using the wrong product.

When Junkman refers to Technique over product,I'm pretty sure he means it doesn't matter whether its M105 or Scholl S3 Gold. Get the technique right and both products will get the desired result....


----------



## James Bagguley

-Raven- said:


> you've totally missed the point. It doesn't matter if you can fix it or not, you'll run into a point where you can't fix it. That point is very close when dealing with paint such as the OP. Something oblivious to noobs and JM. It'll end in tears.....
> 
> WTF happened to using the least aggressive product for the job? We laugh all the time at total hack jobs that cut the absolute crap out of paint, and here you are suggesting that its ok?


You are not wrong there bud  with respect, in some ways there are so many points and opinions flying about in here im sure you can understand how its possible to miss a few things! :lol:
Honestly, i am not experienced enough to champion anything as such, so it wasnt a hard line suggestion so much as a query.

It is relevant to my situation after all as a Honda owner with the exact products being discussed, i think your point about the least aggressive approach is extremely valid.

And Asonda, dont worry, even with little experience i can certainly say i have got decent results, same as Bradley said earlier, if we can do it, then im sure you can too! :thumb:


----------



## Mr Bigglesworth

asonda said:


> I'm buying a DA in the next day or 2 and threads like this scare the bajeezus out of me...I've watched the JM Videos and I've also seen some of his replies over the forum...
> 
> One man says this, another man says that...
> 
> Quick question....sure the technique is important but surely the product you use is equally as important?
> 
> As been mentioned in this thread, surely you want to use the least aggressive stuff you can to sort out paint, then move it up a notch so to speak/abrasiveness if you're not getting anywhere? Then when you've sorted the swirls you then bring it back down to finish with something like Menzerna Final Finish on a Black pad to bring the gloss out?
> 
> Threads like this make it sound like rocket science but it isn't right?
> 
> Surely a bit of common sense and a basic understanding that course stuff takes more clear coat away on softer cars and inflicts buffing swirls and on harder paint it might be needed to even touch it, would give you a good idea on how to do this???
> 
> Sanding a blob of Playdough is gonna be different to sanding some Oak wood...(bit exaggerated but maybe see the point)....


In an identical position to Asonda with the DA purchase soon (and even on the make of we will be working), just as I feel pretty comfortable with the fact that it's hard to damage your car with a DA if you prep properly and take your time - threads like this come along!!


----------



## -Raven-

Mr Bigglesworth said:


> In an identical position to Asonda with the DA purchase soon (and even on the make of we will be working), just as I feel pretty comfortable with the fact that it's hard to damage your car with a DA if you prep properly and take your time - threads like this come along!!


Buy one mate, it'll be the best purchase you'll ever make! You'll wonder why you didn't get one earlier! Just use your head when using it! :thumb:


----------



## James Bagguley

Mr Bigglesworth said:


> In an identical position to Asonda with the DA purchase soon (and even on the make of we will be working), just as I feel pretty comfortable with the fact that it's hard to damage your car with a DA if you prep properly and take your time - threads like this come along!!





-Raven- said:


> Buy one mate, it'll be the best purchase you'll ever make! You'll wonder why you didn't get one earlier! Just use your head when using it! :thumb:


+1 to Ravens post :thumb: 
If anything, the things under discussion here are IMO, more the finer points of technique and product selection. 
The OP's subject matter is more about finishing to perfection than "OMG all the paint just flew off my car!" 
So to any of you guys thinking of purchasing a DA that are put off by the maelstrom (relevant or otherwise) that this thread has become, dont be :thumb:

Hmmn!Think this post needs more thumb up smilies!...


----------



## Starbuck88

I've not been put off, I'm just flabbergasted at the comments of some of the people who profess to know what they're doing!!

I seem to have better understanding (In Theory) of what to do and how to use a bit of common sense to tackle these issues and I've not even touched a DA yet!


----------



## James Bagguley

Thats the spirit! The thread shows a good cross section of differing approaches to a given problem.

Still, i reckon someone would have to work pretty hard to achieve total paint destruction with a DA.
I went pretty hard at a previous owners parking scuff on the corner of my front bumper, and it didnt cause any visible problem.
Maybe a PTG would say otherwise, but the bumper is going to be resprayed at some point anyway, so it is basically a practice panel.


----------



## Leebo310

-Raven- said:


> ignore this whole entire thread for a second and ask yourself this. If product A was giving massive improvement, and product B made it worse than when you first started, what would you focus on? Not a trick question......
> 
> There's a time and place for M105.
> 
> I'm saying he doesn't have to use M105, that much is obvious - couldn't care less if it was technique or product that did the damage. Wrong product with the best technique in the world is still the wrong product.


I think we're both getting a bit mixed up with what we're trying to say mate! :thumb:
The point I'm making isn't that the OP needs or should to use 105 to fix the issue he now has. It's more that realistically less than perfect technique hasn't helped the matter in the first place. That's all 
To be honest the results with just 205 actually looked pretty good to me anyway, I'm not disputing that!

Also right product with wrong technique I'd say can be equally as damaging as wrong product best technique!


----------



## Blueberry

I haven't read this thread all the way through but I don't belief scare mongering is necessarily going on. When someone picks up a DA for the first time, they are by no means an expert. Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't and didn't go straight away and use it on my car. I bought a scrap panel and I practised using different pads and polishes, applying differring amounts of pressure and even trying to inflict some damage. I did this until such a time I was confident enough to use it on my car. 

When someone asks a question about using a DA for the first time we all try to help and if that includes warning against what could happen in the worst case scenario, then so be it.

Damage can be done if care isn't taken however hard or not it may be!


----------



## Junkman2008

B17BLG said:


> Its like saying i have massive RDS and Swirls.
> 
> Going to put a glaze on my cutting pad but use the correct technique.
> 
> You still aint gonna correct them because your using the wrong product.
> 
> When Junkman refers to Technique over product,I'm pretty sure he means it doesn't matter whether its M105 or Scholl S3 Gold. Get the technique right and both products will get the desired result....


Thank you sir. You completely understand. The sad thing is that in Raven's rush to criticize me, he and his cronies have completely gotten wrong the advice that I gave the OP. I never told the OP that he had to use M105 to fix his damage, I just told him that if he had used M105 properly then he would not have gotten the results that he did. But in his haste to criticize me as he has done in a few other threads, that totally went over his head. It wasn't the first time and I can bet it won't be the last. Hopefully the OP will not get discouraged and will continue with his learning progress.

I put up a thread a while ago that shows what I am capable of doing with paint. I have not seen ONE THREAD from any of my critics that shows the same level of capability.


----------



## Leebo310

Mr Junkman you copied my post 



Leebo310 said:


> The point I'm making isn't that the OP needs or should to use 105 to fix the issue he now has. It's more that realistically less than perfect technique hasn't helped the matter in the first place. That's all





Junkman2008 said:


> I never told the OP that he had to use M105 to fix his damage, I just told him that if he had used M105 properly then he would not have gotten the results that he did.


----------



## Junkman2008

Leebo310 said:


> Mr Junkman you copied my post


By George you're correct sir! :thumb:


----------



## Starbuck88

Just so you can see I've deffo not been put off:

Well I've only just gone and done it:

All ordered from Clean Your Car using Discount code DW07 for 7% Off 

DAS-6 PRO Dual Action Polisher
Menzerna Power Finish PF2500 (PO203S)
Menzerna Final Finish (PO 85RD)
Menzerna - Fast Gloss FG 400
Chemical Guys - White 5.5" Hex-Logic Pad
Chemical Guys - Orange 5.5" Hex-Logic Pad
Chemical Guys - Black 5.5" Hex-Logic Pad

CarPro Eraser - Intense Oil and Polish Cleanser
Valet Pro - Citrus Pre Wash

Excited, Excited,


----------



## -Raven-

Junkman2008 said:


> Thank you sir. You completely understand. The sad thing is that in Raven's rush to criticize me, he and his cronies have completely gotten wrong the advice that I gave the OP. I never told the OP that he had to use M105 to fix his damage, I just told him that if he had used M105 properly then he would not have gotten the results that he did. But in his haste to criticize me as he has done in a few other threads, that totally went over his head. It wasn't the first time and I can bet it won't be the last. Hopefully the OP will not get discouraged and will continue with his learning progress.
> 
> I put up a thread a while ago that shows what I am capable of doing with paint. I have not seen ONE THREAD from any of my critics that shows the same level of capability.


If you knew what you were talking about, you would have told him not to use 105 in the first place. 

Not once have you said just use 205, but soft paint is just a myth to you hey? :tumbleweed:

You don't break out the 600 grit sand paper to fix holograms now do you? that is an exaggeration of what you are recommending to do! M105 can remove 1200 grit sanding marks on hard paint! WTF do you think is going to happen on soft Japanese paint? :doublesho

I've posted more than enough detail threads for everyone to see. The last one just happened to be.... you guessed it, A SOFT MAZDA! :lol::lol::lol:



Junkman2008 said:


> But in his haste to criticize me as he has done in a few other threads


What, like the threads where you say LSP's add nothing and are just for protection?

Must be seeing things again! 




























I don't go saying things just for the sake of it. If you cant see that compounding the crap out of the poor soft Japanese paint is a bad thing, something you obviously have no experience in, may be you should sit back and learn something instead of calling all of us haters. 

Now I chose to speak up because hitting a soft car with a heavy hitting compound when the finishing polish done the trick is f***ing idiotic to tell you the truth. But trust me when I say there is a ton of people shaking their heads in disbelief of some of the things you have said in this thread. Soft paint is just a myth? Seriously WTF???

Oh, and to all the learners out there reading this, don't be put off. I am not scare mongering, just please use your heads think about what you are doing! Don't just follow blindly like sheep, you are allowed to think for yourselves! 

.


----------



## bradleymarky

Can we get back on topic guys, I don't want to see this thread locked


----------



## James Bagguley

-Raven- said:


> A SOFT MAZDA!


Sorry, i am being silly here, but just cant stop visualising a Mazda given the Salvador Dali "melty clock" treatment :lol:

Anyway ignore me, not meaning to be personal, and no offence intended, carry on with the thread...

EDIT: ...or not, killed it, sorry!


----------



## DJ X-Ray

asonda said:


> Just so you can see I've deffo not been put off:
> 
> Well I've only just gone and done it:
> 
> All ordered from Clean Your Car using Discount code DW07 for 7% Off
> 
> DAS-6 PRO Dual Action Polisher
> Menzerna Power Finish PF2500 (PO203S)
> Menzerna Final Finish (PO 85RD)
> Menzerna - Fast Gloss FG 400
> Chemical Guys - White 5.5" Hex-Logic Pad
> Chemical Guys - Orange 5.5" Hex-Logic Pad
> Chemical Guys - Black 5.5" Hex-Logic Pad
> 
> CarPro Eraser - Intense Oil and Polish Cleanser
> Valet Pro - Citrus Pre Wash
> 
> Excited, Excited,


That's the spirit. There's only so much you can learn from reading and watching, nothing beats hands on experience. It's just common sense, you'll soon pick it up


----------



## Alex L

Junkman2008 said:


> The sad thing is that in Raven's rush to criticize me, he and his cronies have completely gotten wrong the advice that I gave the OP.


Actually I mentioned nothing about your technique being right or wrong dear chap, just that your post came across as a bit 'everyone else is wrong and you must only do whats in your video' type attitude. But as you so rudely pointed out I don't seem to be able to read :thumb: But hey, like the Murphys I'm not bitter 

And Raven was only offering caution about working on Japanese paint as it's generally thinner and has different properties to paints from other countries. Something you so politely told him is all in his head and proceeded to post a whole load pointless pictures and videos instead of maybe doing a bit of research about his and others experiences

Maybe in future don't be so defensive, you are after all on a UK forum and over here we're a lot different than US forums even though we speak the same language.

In the US based forums I've seen threads get locked because a person with a low post counts has had a difference of opinion to one of the established members, where over here we can all agree to disagree and still go to detailing meets and have a good chin wag.



Junkman2008 said:


> I put up a thread a while ago that shows what I am capable of doing with paint. I have not seen ONE THREAD from any of my critics that shows the same level of capability.


I'm sure theres a thread about how to use the search function :thumb:

And congratulations on painting a car, but if I'm to interpret what your implying as we have no room to comment because we haven't painted a car then I really think you should wind your neck in :thumb:


----------



## Junkman2008

bradleymarky said:


> Can we get back on topic guys, I don't want to see this thread locked


:thumb:


----------



## Trip tdi

What astounds me is that the OP is using meguiars 105 with a harsh pad on Japanese paint first of all on the first start :doublesho this is the combo I will go for on hard German paint and will not hesitate to use this on the first basis, OP just use your 205 with a polishing pad or a finishing pad you will correct Japanese paint with this with no problem :thumb: Job done.


----------



## -Raven-

Trip tdi said:


> What astounds me is that the OP is using meguiars 105 with a harsh pad on Japanese paint first of all on the first start :doublesho this is the combo I will go for on hard German paint and will not hesitate to use this on the first basis, OP just use your 205 with a polishing pad or a finishing pad you will correct Japanese paint with this with no problem :thumb: Job done.


If it can smash out 1200 grit sanding marks on hard paint, what is it going to do to soft paint......


----------



## cheekymonkey

Junkman2008 said:


> So how many Asian cars manufactured in America have you worked on? That question goes to the rest of you so called experts? How many?


but the op's car paint isnt american, so your experience with american jap paint is of no use to him is it :wall::wall:


----------



## cheekymonkey

Leebo310 said:


> Why am I kidding?
> Technique to get rid of holograms isn't sandpaper unless I'm massively misinformed?


on soft jap paint 105 is worse than sandpaper on a hard paint

i have said before in this thread i can correct most scratches with ultrafina and a white pad on my jap paint, it is that soft. hit it with 105 and a orange pad is overkill and dangerous, jap paint is not just soft but thin as well:thumb:


----------



## cheekymonkey

asonda said:


> I'm buying a DA in the next day or 2 and threads like this scare the bajeezus out of me...I've watched the JM Videos and I've also seen some of his replies over the forum...
> 
> One man says this, another man says that...
> 
> Quick question....sure the technique is important but surely the product you use is equally as important?
> 
> As been mentioned in this thread, surely you want to use the least aggressive stuff you can to sort out paint, then move it up a notch so to speak/abrasiveness if you're not getting anywhere? Then when you've sorted the swirls you then bring it back down to finish with something like Menzerna Final Finish on a Black pad to bring the gloss out?
> 
> Threads like this make it sound like rocket science but it isn't right?
> 
> Surely a bit of common sense and a basic understanding that course stuff takes more clear coat away on softer cars and inflicts buffing swirls and on harder paint it might be needed to even touch it, would give you a good idea on how to do this???
> 
> Sanding a blob of Playdough is gonna be different to sanding some Oak wood...(bit exaggerated but maybe see the point)....


no need to be scared mate, if you can afford it take some lessons, or get a scrap panel to practice on. dont learn using it on your own car you asking for trouble


----------



## Junkman2008




----------



## Kerr

Junkman2008 said:


>


Junkman, in the nicest possible way, you'd be better to take your own advice.

You seem to be attempting to antagonise people with posts like that. You know you are going to get a reaction.

Very contradicting.


----------



## cheekymonkey

Leebo310 said:


> I haven't been suckered into anything mate, I'm just saying that it's opinion and everyone is entitled to one.
> So no one has ever used or will ever need to use 105 on Japanese paint then?
> The op didn't get the results he wanted with a finishing polish so tried the other end of the spectrum and ended up worse evidently. You say it's because of product, junkman says technique and I'm saying that it realistically it's both.


how many times has junkman worked on soft sticky jap paint, he hasn't so what he is saying is from his experiace on hard paid.Infact he said soft paint is a myth :wall:


----------



## Junkman2008

Kerr said:


> Junkman, in the nicest possible way, you'd be better to take your own advice.
> 
> You seem to be attempting to antagonise people with posts like that. You know you are going to get a reaction.
> 
> Very contradicting.


The only people who will be antagonized and respond are the trolls. It's like turning the lights on in a dirty kitchen and seeing all the roaches.


----------



## -Raven-

Yep, real mature Junkman. Call everyone a hater or troll when you don't get your own way.... FFS grow up child. 

Two ears and one mouth. Maybe you should listen more and talk less? Hopefully then even you can learn something from this thread. :thumb:


----------



## cheekymonkey

Junkman2008 said:


> Thank you sir. You completely understand. The sad thing is that in Raven's rush to criticize me, he and his cronies have completely gotten wrong the advice that I gave the OP. I never told the OP that he had to use M105 to fix his damage, I just told him that if he had used M105 properly then he would not have gotten the results that he did. But in his haste to criticize me as he has done in a few other threads, that totally went over his head. It wasn't the first time and I can bet it won't be the last. Hopefully the OP will not get discouraged and will continue with his learning progress.
> 
> I put up a thread a while ago that shows what I am capable of doing with paint. I have not seen ONE THREAD from any of my critics that shows the same level of capability.


junkman just a couple of questions if you would answer in a proper way and no silly posts. 
how many soft sticky jap painted cars have you worked with and do you think hard and soft paint are the same


----------



## cheekymonkey

Junkman2008 said:


> Thank you sir. You completely understand. The sad thing is that in Raven's rush to criticize me, he and his cronies have completely gotten wrong the advice that I gave the OP. I never told the OP that he had to use M105 to fix his damage, I just told him that if he had used M105 properly then he would not have gotten the results that he did. But in his haste to criticize me as he has done in a few other threads, that totally went over his head. It wasn't the first time and I can bet it won't be the last. Hopefully the OP will not get discouraged and will continue with his learning progress.
> 
> I put up a thread a while ago that shows what I am capable of doing with paint. I* have not seen ONE THREAD from any of my critics that shows the same level of capability. *


there are plenty on here from Raven.:thumb:


----------



## -Raven-

cheekymonkey said:


> there are plenty on here from Raven.:thumb:


nah man, my standards are higher. I like to use a finishing polish on a pad with no cut. Another thing completely lost on Junkman if you read this thread.... :tumbleweed:


----------



## cheekymonkey

-Raven- said:


> nah man, my standards are higher. I like to use a finishing polish on a pad with no cut. Another thing completely lost on Junkman if you read this thread.... :tumbleweed:


I read it. infact i read it twice just to make sure :doublesho


----------



## Kerr

Junkman2008 said:


> The only people who will be antagonized and respond are the trolls. It's like turning the lights on in a dirty kitchen and seeing all the roaches.


I couldn't care less about the argument that's going on here, but since it's so quiet at this time, I'll add to it.

You think there is no such thing as soft paint, I think reading hundreds of different threads of highly respected detailers in this country, they've all mentioned this fact of numerous occasions.

It does appear to me you are the first and only person I've heard with your opinion and that's taking account of the numerous professional detailers who all have vast amounts of experience.

No idea if your cars are different in the US or if the heat and climate are enough to make a significant difference.

Anyways that aside, this forum is for debate. It's all good fun.

You seem to have given lots of advice that many people are very grateful about.

However you seem to have the opinion that if anyone questions you, they are automatically wrong. You don't seem open to accepting any differing opinion to your own even though countless others will argue that you are wrong based on experience.

Do you read fellow professional detailers write ups and advice?

If you don't think your videos and pictures are anything short of antagonising, you are only kidding yourself on. They seem extremely boastful and arrogant.

As per your own Troll poster, you seem to want to overpower everyone and simply don't listen or attempt to join in with a discussion. It's only instruction you wish to give with no scope to accept any alterative opinion.

Aside from the argument about soft paint or not, personally I feel you are showing too much arrogance and then as soon as you feel questioned have posted things that really aren't relevent or in keeping with the thread.

Nobody is a "hater" here and I'm not sure what reaction you hope to achieve posting you driving in supercars in front of a very nice house before flashing a hater poster?.

It did seem arrogant and the amusing thing is they aren't your cars. You were using them to make you look important. It was funny, but for the wrong reasons.

Your accusing others of being trolls, but to me you are trolling people by posting the pictures and videos you are, then comparing people to "roaches".

Your being a bit nasty and trolling as far as I'm concerned.

This thread has gone way off topic and I think you need to calm down a bit to get it back on course.


----------



## Alex L

Good luck with that :lol:

Mike Phillips videos and tuition are 100 times better anyway :thumb:


----------



## cheekymonkey

Alex L said:


> Good luck with that :lol:
> 
> Mike Phillips videos and tuition are 100 times better anyway :thumb:


as i recall Mike has in the past mentioned soft jap paint :thumb:


----------



## Alex L

cheekymonkey said:


> as i recall Mike has in the past mentioned soft jap paint :thumb:


----------



## cheekymonkey

Junkman2008 said:


> The only people who will be antagonized and respond are the trolls. It's like turning the lights on in a dirty kitchen and seeing all the roaches.


theres the problem you see it as members having a dig at you, when the truth is there just trying to stop the op from making a big mistake :wall:


----------



## xonxon

Alright folks, I think I deserve a bit more than 2cents here being the guy who was originally scratching his head.

Junkman - Whilst thanking you (again) for the time you take to make those videos (a bit less talk would make them a bit easier to re watch and hence take shorter to upload). Have it not been your videos, I would most probably have never bought a DA (and now thinking rotary) so credit where credit is due.

From what I saw in the post, you kept arguing you know all about Jap paint. I'm sorry, a Toyota built in the USA is not a jap car, FFS, its like eating pizza in the UK (its utter crap), so all the guys trying to convince JM that there is soft and sticky jap paint, don't worry, I'm on the same train of thought that you are.

The way you replied my initial post, it was like I was a seven year old, you sounded intimidating, but I thought to myself that the man has a lot of experience up his sleeve and I have 2 and a half cars, I watched again, took some more notes, and will try tomorrow and over the course of the weekend.

Reading your other posts that soft paint doesn't exists, and calling almost everyone posting on this thread (as almost everyone has opposing views) haters and trolls is simply childish. You continued to bury your head in the sand when you said that you are capable of painting your own cars, and it makes no difference to you if M105 inflicts damage. You then started to change your story to say that you never suggested m105 in the first place (in this thread you didn't but your videos did).

The reason I tried 105? I bought it and never used it effectively (had forgotten that it gave me the same results on my miata) I only did 1/4 of a tailgate, which I considered safe as a vertical surface, and not such a large portion of the car. In your videos you also say that its very very safe, so I said, theres no harm.

As for the other guys, do not worry, I will proceed with caution, and 105 will be staying in the dark for a while 

I also never assumed that such a simple thread will go full blast and I appreciate the effort from a lot of different users so that I be very cautious with M105 as to be honest, I had no clue on what I was doing.

I will hopefully be starting something else this weekend as the missus (car's owner) is working, and I will have time to work on my other car. Since people were so helpful, I'll drag down my SLR and try to get a few half decent shots.
I will also try to get shots of the car in question when I get some time, as I only did the roof, tailgate and rear bumper, so way to go 

I therefore would like to thank EVERYONE for their input. Many thanks


----------



## Carshine

matthewt23 said:


> But the OP is not correcting an Asian car that has been manufactured in America. He's correcting soft Asian paint that hasn't been manufactured in America. How many of those have you worked on?


Spot on! :thumb:

And just to add something rearding the "soft paint vs aggressive product" discussion; you might very well get nice results on a soft clearcoat with M105. But have in mind that every time you use an aggressive type of compound, you take away parts of the paint. So every time you'll need to detail the car again, with soft and thin paint, you'll end up with taking risks of getting an accident. Personally I always give it a try first with the LEAST aggressive product and pad, before bringing the sledgehammer


----------



## xonxon

Folks,

Took a shot on my other car, a Fiat uno turbo (been painted at some point in its life) The car was already shiny but full of swirls, used m205 with a hexlogic white pad, followed as many of Junkman's instructions but swirls still remained. No difference was noted between one hit (4-6 passes) and two hits. Also tried following meg's own instructions and doing 4 passes and then slowing the DA down and reducing the pressure, I kept seeing the same results.

The car has highly improved but there are still minimal swirls.

I took a look at the buff and shine website who say that their white pad is for heavy polishing whilst their blue pad is for light polishing, should I try that one?

I have also applied blackhole and AG UDS, I have to clay before I polish again right?

Below are the results










Advise is appreciated.


----------



## Trip tdi

Results look good up above :thumb: If using UDS no need to use Blackhole underneath as the UDS will strip it so a waste of time and product cost, basically you are wasting product bro.
When doing machining make sure you clay before hand, last thing you want is grit and trapped dirt as a sanding action to the paint with the pad and too contaminate the pad quickly, a clean surface is needed, after clay IPA wipe down or panel wipe then machine polish as this will show the true defects in the light, then IPA panel wipe and seal with UDS, job will done.


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## stangalang

There maybe a number of things going on here. There is a chance you have removed the swirls, but are instilling new ones with poor microfibres or too strong of a solvent when wiping down. These both can cause marring/swirling. Also, m205 will run a lot longer than 5 passes, on a standard size whit hex, with 3 small blobs, you can work a standard area for many many passes, try spreading at speed 3 for a pass or two until the polish is evenly spread, work at speed 5 for 6 passes, so 3 east to west, and 3 north to south, with pressure, then slow the machine to speed 3 again and lessen the pressure for a further 3 or 4 passes, again east to west and north to south. 

Things to make sure you are doing correctly:
Make sure you hold the machine parallel to the panel, i see lots who THINK they are slowing the machine through pressure, when in fact they are holding it at a very slight angle, which will slow the machine in the same manor, but not produce the cut

Make sure you move with slow hand movements, you real need to invest in a slow and steady style. Try moving an inch a second as a guide and adjust from there.

When you buff off, make sure you wipe very gently, and in small bites until the area is removed, then flip the towel and re buff again very gently

And lastly, if you do indeed have very soft paint, use a pad that has zero cut, meaning its only the polish causing any abrasion. That way, the pad won't leave any marring and the gloss produced by the polish won't be dulled


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## xonxon

ouch, did not know that

so megs 205 and uds, or else megs 205, blackhole and wax?



Trip tdi said:


> Results look good up above :thumb: If using UDS no need to use Blackhole underneath as the UDS will strip it so a waste of time and product cost, basically you are wasting product bro.
> When doing machining make sure you clay before hand, last thing you want is grit and trapped dirt as a sanding action to the paint with the pad and too contaminate the pad quickly, a clean surface is needed, after clay IPA wipe down or panel wipe then machine polish as this will show the true defects in the light, then IPA panel wipe and seal with UDS, job will done.


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## xonxon

Firstly I'd like to thank you for your feedback.

Poor microfibres - bought a lot from ASDA - all still brand new

not using any solvent to wipe down, just a microfibre cloth

I followed JD's instructions and when half of the polish starts to shine was slowing down, as was advised against overpolishing :/ [was doing 6 passes on another car before this one but still did not manage to remove 100% swirls]

been spreading at speed 3, then bumping up to 5 and doing the polishing, slowing down to 4 and doing 2 passes with minimal pressure and 2 passes with no pressure at all

Holding machine parallel - pain in the bum really as I am not always sure its straight, but am always looking that pad is not only oscillating but also turning.

Slow, I've probably been doing 3 inches in 2 seconds, since it is a physical job I end up thinking of other stuff and start moving faster.

No cut pad - noted



stangalang said:


> There maybe a number of things going on here. There is a chance you have removed the swirls, but are instilling new ones with poor microfibres or too strong of a solvent when wiping down. These both can cause marring/swirling. Also, m205 will run a lot longer than 5 passes, on a standard size whit hex, with 3 small blobs, you can work a standard area for many many passes, try spreading at speed 3 for a pass or two until the polish is evenly spread, work at speed 5 for 6 passes, so 3 east to west, and 3 north to south, with pressure, then slow the machine to speed 3 again and lessen the pressure for a further 3 or 4 passes, again east to west and north to south.
> 
> Things to make sure you are doing correctly:
> Make sure you hold the machine parallel to the panel, i see lots who THINK they are slowing the machine through pressure, when in fact they are holding it at a very slight angle, which will slow the machine in the same manor, but not produce the cut
> 
> Make sure you move with slow hand movements, you real need to invest in a slow and steady style. Try moving an inch a second as a guide and adjust from there.
> 
> When you buff off, make sure you wipe very gently, and in small bites until the area is removed, then flip the towel and re buff again very gently
> 
> And lastly, if you do indeed have very soft paint, use a pad that has zero cut, meaning its only the polish causing any abrasion. That way, the pad won't leave any marring and the gloss produced by the polish won't be dulled


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## stangalang

Just bare in mind the pads rotation will be disrupted by not holding the machine parallel, thus giving the illusion of adding pressure. This may be a factor in the correction issues. 
If you like hex pads, blue or black I think have no cut, essentially for cleaners and glazes, this may help finishing. Also don't discount trying a diminishing abrasive, something like scholl s40 will work well even via da


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## AstraDave

Don't know if it's been said already but putting a black marker line on the backing plate helps a lot so you can see if it's spinning enough when you apply pressure


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## Leebo310

stangalang said:


> try spreading at speed 3 for a pass or two until the polish is evenly spread, work at speed 5 for 6 passes, so 3 east to west, and 3 north to south, with pressure, then slow the machine to speed 3 again and lessen the pressure for a further 3 or 4 passes, again east to west and north to south.


Mate apologies for the stupidness of the question but when you talk of slowing the speed on the da, do you mean whilst the machine is still running? I used mine for the first time the other day and found it virtually impossible to adjust the speed while it's on the car. Guess I'm doing it wrong or missing something obvious but I found I needed two hands on the machine the whole time!
Any advice gratefully received!


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## B17BLG

May I also suggest that your MF clothes from Asda can be quite harsh. I would try something along the lines of the euro towel which is really thick and soft.

Also could you borrow a Paint depth gauge? Ideally you want to see how much these passes are taking off, if the passes are removing next to nothing you know you can step it up


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## Bezste

No, I'm sure Stangalang means for you to stop the machine, lift off the bodywork, adjust the speed, place back onto the bodywork and away you go again.


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## Ge03

Once you've become accustomed to your machine it is possible to adjust the speed whilst polishing, but it's safer to stop the polisher, adjust the speed, then while holding the pad firmly against the paint, turn back on. The first time you get polish slung all over the car you'll remember the bit about having the pad firmly against the paint. :buffer:


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## Leebo310

Cheers for the prompt replies people!


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## stangalang

Leebo310 said:


> Mate apologies for the stupidness of the question but when you talk of slowing the speed on the da, do you mean whilst the machine is still running? I used mine for the first time the other day and found it virtually impossible to adjust the speed while it's on the car. Guess I'm doing it wrong or missing something obvious but I found I needed two hands on the machine the whole time!
> Any advice gratefully received!


Yes absolutely whilst running if you can. It helps the flow of working. But if you find it awkward or difficult then stop the machine, adjust the speed control and then restart it on the panel again. It's not a "right or wrong" type situation, the only thing that matters is getting the finish desired so don't feel you have to do itEXACTLY as others do . Some very basic rules need to be followed to avoid damage, but the rest is personal style which can't be taught it has to grow. 
Just relax and start again, without comparing yourself to others


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## Bezste

Oh! I got that wrong then!


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## Leebo310

stangalang said:


> Yes absolutely whilst running if you can. It helps the flow of working. But if you find it awkward or difficult then stop the machine, adjust the speed control and then restart it on the panel again. It's not a "right or wrong" type situation, the only thing that matters is getting the finish desired so don't feel you have to do itEXACTLY as others do . Some very basic rules need to be followed to avoid damage, but the rest is personal style which can't be taught it has to grow.
> Just relax and start again, without comparing yourself to others


Cheers mate, thanks for the advice!


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## Neno330

xonxon said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Been following this forum for a while and after a failed attempt with rexin and hand-polishing I gave up and went for a Das 6 pro.
> 
> I started out on a crap daily, shine came out quite nice, did not bother with swirls. After that I did my mk1 mx5 where I managed to reduce the number of swirls by say 80%. I was told that its an old car and should leave it as is.
> 
> Yesterday I started out SWMBO's 3 year old black mazda 2. The swirls were being massively improving but there was still a few (Hexlogic white and Megs 205), I turned to Hexlogic orange with megs 105. A 50:50 later, the side where I did the 105 seemed worse than the other, did two hits of 205 with the white pad again on the whole panel but the bit where I did the 105 still looks worse than the bit where I just did it with the 205.
> 
> I'm moving around 1cm per second, covering 50% each time, doing 6 to 8 passes per part of panel(tailgate was split in 2 sections), and doing this all twice, running speed 6 and pressing just enough for the motor to change its noise and slow down slightly. Not using more than 3 pea sized drops of polish.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what I'm missing?
> 
> Sorry no pics, will do the bonnet next weekend and send pics.
> 
> Thanks in advance


did you managed get rid of the swirls on black mazda 2?
which combo give the best results?
next week I will work on black mazda5 and also have M105 and M205 and hexlogic pads to work with it...


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## Junkman2008

Neno330 said:


> did you managed get rid of the swirls on black mazda 2?
> which combo give the best results?
> next week I will work on black mazda5 and also have M105 and M205 and hexlogic pads to work with it...


Remember, TECHNIQUE trumps product, 7 days a week.


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