# Your Future Motorng Decisions Poll



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

In light of the governments decsion to ban internal combustion engines in 2040, how do you think this is going to influence your future motoring decisions.

Will continue to buy Petrol or diesel Car

Look to buy Hybrid car

Look to buy EV car

Use more public transport

Don't care and will buy what's best for you at the time


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

I'll be continuing to buy petrol cars, while I can :lol:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Bristle Hound said:


> I'll be continuing to buy petrol cars, while I can :lol:


I have a V8 and JCW so one of the wors't offenders , but hey I pay extra tax on car and rfl and more tax on fuel so no guilt.


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

Will look for a hybrid, but only if it is a diesel.
Wouldn't mind a Tesla neither, think it's a good offering, but the price of the batteries need to go down a bit.


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## MagpieRH (May 27, 2014)

I will go with whatever suits at the time - I'd happily have an electric car if the infrastructure could support it, and it was affordable. I don't have £30k+ to splash on a car.

It's difficult, it's one that needs bulk buying to increase development speed and bring prices down, but it's not affordable to many until those things happen.
I know TESLA are trying to move that way; they want to make it more and more affordable (for obvious reasons), and seem to be going the right way about it.

By 2040, will fully autonomous vehicles have moved on to the point they're ubiquitous? Only time will tell.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

It'll be petrol cars for a long time yet. 

Can you edit the poll to separate diesel and petrol being together?


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

In 2040, I'll be 56 (if I live that long!) and I'd like to say I'll be in the last years of my career so I don't really know yet, at the minute I live in the sticks where there is no infrastructure for plug in hybrids, only home charging. I'd be very happy with a hybrid or an EV for the driving I do 99% of the time. The issue with an EV is towing the caravan but a hybrid can do that (some) so that's good news for me. Having just changed cars I was in the position of considering a hybrid and I looked with more than just a passing interest at a Volvo V60 D6 to continue my seemingly never ending streak of Volvo's but the boot is far too small with the raised floor and that's a big issue with all the rubbish you take around with a small child and as the Dogs have some life in them yet it's just not going to work! An XC90 T8 is too much money to spend on a car my wife uses like a tank. It's been less than a month and she's already crashed the Audi into a kerb and a wall!! 

I work for the Welsh Government principally these days and as such I get given lots of cars to go down to Cardiff in and usually these are whatever Hertz has in stock but lately I've been given fleet cars including a Vauxhall Ampera Hybrid (that was quite cool in a way but not a car I'd consider buying) and most recently I was given a Toyota Avensis Hybrid which was very typically Japanese which was nice but again, too much of an appliance to make me wish I'd bought one. I was offered a Leaf once, clearly the car people hadn't worked out the distance from Menai Bridge to Cardiff properly!!


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

Don't think it will make a great deal of difference to me as i will be 73 by that point and will just buy whatever i can afford at the time


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

If you can be bothered to spend an hour watching this, this chap seems to think EVs and autonomous cars are on the brink of taking off in the next 5 years, purely because it makes economical sense.






I tend to disagree, think there are too many things stopping it before it will be mainstream, but it will come.

Problem is that people like us are likely to be in the minority. We have a passion for cars and enjoy looking after them and owning them. I reckon the vast majority see it as something they need rather than want...if they could get transport as cheap as possible then that's all they worry about.

Also think it's hard to justify driving, because we enjoy it, when so many lives are ruined by road deaths and accidents....

From a personal point of view, I can't wait to own a decent EV, like a Tesla. Might seem odd as an owner of a V6 S5, but the whole concept and tech side of things is awesome. Also like the idea of going 0-60 in under 3secs, and it costing less than a £5 to 'fill up'!

Crazy to think that less than 20yrs and EVs are already performing at that level. Very exciting to see how things develop!


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Derekh929 said:


> I have a V8 and JCW so one of the wors't offenders , but hey I pay extra tax on car and rfl and more tax on fuel so no guilt.


Pahhh amateur!!

4.7 V8 Jeep, 4.0 V8 TVR, 208 GTI....the V8s are proper V8's too none of this modern fluffy crap


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

nick_mcuk said:


> Pahhh amateur!!
> 
> 4.7 V8 Jeep, 4.0 V8 TVR, 208 GTI....the V8s are proper V8's too none of this modern fluffy crap


:lol: your worse than China and two jags Prescott


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

I think electric cars will be very expensive to run, more so than petrol and diesel, just wait until the energy giants get their mits on the system, they'll have a big part to play. It's petrol for me.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Derekh929 said:


> :lol: your worse than China and two jags Prescott


Haha you only live once.....V8's rock!


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

Soul boy 68 said:


> I think electric cars will be very expensive to run, more so than petrol and diesel, just wait until the energy giants get their mits on the system, they'll have a big part to play. It's petrol for me.


I highly doubt there will be a centralised energy system for much longer...

It costs me £60 a week to fill my tank doing average of 300miles a week.

You can now install solar and a battery system from Ikea for just £3k. Thats one years worth of fuel (plus powering your home). 10years ago that same solar system would of cost £15k.

Costs are plummeting, and couple that with very low maintenance and there is every reason to believe that EVs will be many magnitudes cheaper....

But...could be wrong!


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

DrEskimo said:


> I highly doubt there will be a centralised energy system for much longer...


I hope you're right Dr, it's just a feeling I've got, all the infrastructure needs to be in place, charging points at forecourts and charging points at home, think of how much it could cost to charge a car at home on a daily basis and for how many hours over the course of the week and not to mention the strain it will put on the national grid. Is 23 years from now to soon? It's taken us 100 years or so to get to this point with diesel and petrol.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

SB shell and BP just signed deals to roll out EV charge stations at their Petrol stations


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

Soul boy 68 said:


> I hope you're right Dr, it's just a feeling I've got, all the infrastructure needs to be in place, charging points at forecourts and charging points at home, think of how much it could cost to charge a car at home on a daily basis and for how many hours over the course of the week and not to mention the strain it will put on the national grid. Is 23 years from now to soon? It's taken us 100 years or so to get to this point with diesel and petrol.


Sorry edited my post...! I think thats one way you could circumvent the issues you rightly raise. But obviously that relies on you having a house that can accommodate those things...a big caveat!

Thats the vision by Elon anyway, with solar tiles and the powerwall...be interesting to see how things develop!


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

By 2040 I'd expect to see completely self sufficient vehicles that never need plugging in or filling up with any fuel, but we wouldn't be allowed those would we 

Although, as I've already mentioned some half wit in charge will have nuked most of us by then anyway.

Sent from my VFD 710 using Tapatalk


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

All depends on my intended use and mileage.

Living where we do and with our lifestyle we are constrained in some ways by the requirement for ground clearance and 4 wheel drive.

If an electric vehicle comes up and the price is not too stinging, and it fits with our needs, I would buy it.

And if they try to sting me for electricity I will buy myself a wind turbine which need not be a huge munter and it will easily exceed most PV installations in capacity.

It is obvious that diesel engine technology in particular will only become ever more expensive because the EU are going to chase emissions like a demon. It is already a serious issue in the heavy vehicle world to the extent that a lot of owners are taking matters into their own hands, fortunately they do not have the issue of an MOT to comply with.

I am sure cars aimed at enthusiasts will always remain but for 95% of the drivers on todays roads, in their 1.4 Clios, it does not add to the driving experience whatsoever knowing that it is a 3 cylinder petrol thingamgjig in the front that goes broom broom a bit- they might as well all be electric. Ditto the company man in the suit who has to do 200 miles a day caning his 2.0 TDI Audi up and down motorways all day. He is using it as a means of transportation. He might as well be carrying a battery along for the ride instead of 60 litres of diesel that is being blamed for respiratory illness.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Kerr said:


> It'll be petrol cars for a long time yet.
> 
> Can you edit the poll to separate diesel and petrol being together?


I already messed up the poll so don't want to change it again but go with what ever you want option :thumb: as that covers any option for when you get you battery disability scooter like me by then:lol:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

85.37% will get Petrol or Diesel or don't care. wow good luck to them that has to convert us, I wonder if I asked the same question each year how it will change?


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

I think we're more likely to be running around on horseback trying to elude the genetically engineered hoards of apes that have taken over and brought down governments worldwide.

On the bright side, we could use Shell V-Power hay which not only improves the power of the horse, but also reduces manure emissions. 

Planet saved :thumb:


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

How much oil will be left by 2040?
Scarcity makes for hefty prices. I'll probably need to buy a supercharged v8 ford falcon gt...


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Shug said:


> How much oil will be left by 2040?
> Scarcity makes for hefty prices. I'll probably need to buy a supercharged v8 ford falcon gt...


The tech to extract oil is getting better all the time and the reserves west of Shetland have not scratched the surface yet so as tech improves they will be in much deeper water drilling and as cost of extraction reduces for some wells they will be pumping away for a lot more than 23 years


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## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

I'm 24 so EV aren't necessarily meant to be 'cool' to me; but would definitely consider a Tesla if they were affordable. I've got a 2006 Mini JCW which costs over £300 a year to tax and does about 27mpg. But to me the enjoyment is worth it. So even if I had an EV - I would still look to have a petrol car for the weekends since they fit different purposes. Although I also have a company car so even if they were affordable - I wouldn't buy one right now. 

I work in sales for a VW dealer and people have really started to go off diesels in regards to new and used. When all this 'diesel is bad' stuff was in the press or first came about with the diesel scrappage scheme's being introduced in various European cities - people are now looking for a petrol. We have also had a large rise in the number of enquiries we are getting on the Golf & Passat GTE. Which are actually great to drive and very clever. 
We sell the home charging points for £279 inc VAT fully installed. This includes a £500 government subsidy. So the infrastructure is very slowly getting there. But no where near enough to support millions of vehicles. The government needs to act pretty swiftly if they want to make this change happen.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

alexjb said:


> I'm 24 so EV aren't necessarily meant to be 'cool' to me; but would definitely consider a Tesla if they were affordable. I've got a 2006 Mini JCW which costs over £300 a year to tax and does about 27mpg. But to me the enjoyment is worth it. So even if I had an EV - I would still look to have a petrol car for the weekends since they fit different purposes. Although I also have a company car so even if they were affordable - I wouldn't buy one right now.
> 
> I work in sales for a VW dealer and people have really started to go off diesels in regards to new and used. When all this 'diesel is bad' stuff was in the press or first came about with the diesel scrappage scheme's being introduced in various European cities - people are now looking for a petrol. We have also had a large rise in the number of enquiries we are getting on the Golf & Passat GTE. Which are actually great to drive and very clever.
> We sell the home charging points for £279 inc VAT fully installed. This includes a £500 government subsidy. So the infrastructure is very slowly getting there. But no where near enough to support millions of vehicles. The government needs to act pretty swiftly if they want to make this change happen.


Thanks for your input great info there, I'm glad I finally shifted from Diesel to Petrol at end of last year and good reasonable price back to trade for my Beemer


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## Philb1965 (Jun 29, 2010)

Old duffer here. About to take delivery of a focus RS so I buy what I want rather than what the Eco warriors think I should. 

Lucky enough to be able to make the choice financially at the moment. While I can it's petrol all the way for the whole experience of noise, power and enjoyment. Won't say I'll never buy a hybrid but it would have to enhance the petrol experience for me not take away from it.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I am amused by all this eco warrior type talk.

I have ridden in a Tesla. I bet it would drop rather a lot of the metal discussed on this forum at the lights like they had left their hand brake on. They are serious rapid.

I also note than an electric car just hoofed the Nurburgring with some ridiculous time.

When F1 goes all electric your tune will be changed. It's just a matter of time- torque available virtually at 0 speed. Independently controlled power and torque to each wheel without the need for diffs or other tom foolery.

If I could afford a Tesla model X I would have it, second hand Tesla S aren't crazy expensive now, I would love an electric Volvo XC90 but they do not yet exist.

This talk of 'the national grid can't cope', it's not an issue. I have read several reports on the issue. The grid is virtually freewheeling at night because there is no domestic demand. With all these wind turbines going at night soon we will be looking for ways to dump the energy into something.

You have also to remember that with electric cars you aren't getting more than half the energy going out an exhaust pipe.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

ollienoclue said:


> I am amused by all this eco warrior type talk.
> 
> I have ridden in a Tesla. I bet it would drop rather a lot of the metal discussed on this forum at the lights like they had left their hand brake on. They are serious rapid.
> 
> ...


What's your opinion if/when they replace beer with water?


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Kerr that's going to be disastrous for you if cars run on beer you won't get to work on a Monday or Tuesday you have been to Tesco again:lol:
You just thinking about increasing the value of you BD shares again


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## Philb1965 (Jun 29, 2010)

ollienoclue said:


> I am amused by all this eco warrior type talk.
> 
> I have ridden in a Tesla. I bet it would drop rather a lot of the metal discussed on this forum at the lights like they had left their hand brake on. They are serious rapid.
> 
> ...


But there is no drama, no theatre to the driving experience in electric cars. It's as much aural and mechanical as anything for me. Have you watched formula e yet..oh dear! With the RS they inject fuel to make it pop and bang, bloody marvellous, give those engineers a medal!

I'll give you the fact electric cars are rockets 0-60 in the right guise, masses of torque. So I wouldn't rule out a hybrid at some point but I still want the option of changing the exhaust for a better sound or adding a stage upgrade for more power.

Each to their own though, I'll be running my petrol cars for as long as I can :car:


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

Philb1965 said:


> But there is no drama, no theatre to the driving experience in electric cars. It's as much aural and mechanical as anything for me. Have you watched formula e yet..oh dear! With the RS they inject fuel to make it pop and bang, bloody marvellous, give those engineers a medal!
> 
> I'll give you the fact electric cars are rockets 0-60 in the right guise, masses of torque. So I wouldn't rule out a hybrid at some point but I still want the option of changing the exhaust for a better sound or adding a stage upgrade for more power.
> 
> Each to their own though, I'll be running my petrol cars for as long as I can :car:


I tend to agree....but how much drama can you have crawling on the M25 at less than 20MPH...!

For me, EV for commuting and a weekend car for spirited country drives or track days. Everyone is happy!


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

Philb1965 said:


> But there is no drama, no theatre to the driving experience in electric cars. It's as much aural and mechanical as anything for me. Have you watched formula e yet..oh dear! With the RS they inject fuel to make it pop and bang, bloody marvellous, give those engineers a medal!
> 
> I'll give you the fact electric cars are rockets 0-60 in the right guise, masses of torque. So I wouldn't rule out a hybrid at some point but I still want the option of changing the exhaust for a better sound or adding a stage upgrade for more power.
> 
> Each to their own though, I'll be running my petrol cars for as long as I can :car:


That is fine, but you are in a minority- for example, what muppet buys a Focus TDCI 'for da engin noiz? They don't care.

The vast majority of folks just want a car that works and can transport them form A to B. Battery powered cars will be cheaper to buy, run and ultimately should be more reliable. Even if you are totally stuck with today's tech and it will only do 200 miles on a charge, that's perfect for 90% of journeys.

For enthusiasts there will always be a niche selection of cars. How they power them will be open to debate. I suspect the insane performance of many electric performance cars will be a draw, after all not every fast car sounds especially great.


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## RedUntilDead (Feb 10, 2009)

off topic but if they start making rapid electric cars they would have to make them sound a bit noisy. How many old peeps or kids wearing headphones would be hit crossing roads otherwise


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

ollienoclue said:


> That is fine, but you are in a minority- for example, what muppet buys a Focus TDCI 'for da engin noiz? They don't care.
> 
> The vast majority of folks just want a car that works and can transport them form A to B. Battery powered cars will be cheaper to buy, run and ultimately should be more reliable. Even if you are totally stuck with today's tech and it will only do 200 miles on a charge, that's perfect for 90% of journeys.
> 
> For enthusiasts there will always be a niche selection of cars. How they power them will be open to debate. I suspect the insane performance of many electric performance cars will be a draw, after all not every fast car sounds especially great.


Very valid point , only a small amount of the car buying public are car nut Petrol heads that care, same as BMW doing a survey on 1 series customers loads did not know if it was FWD or RWD and did not care , so as FWD cheaper we will see more BMW/Mini cost saving platform sharing in future.
To most they don't Car as long as it goes and get them from A to B


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## donfresh (Feb 23, 2016)

public transport still on 0 votes haha


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## Fentum (May 1, 2017)

I'm rather hoping that hydrogen technology will come on and that retro-conversions to petrol cars will be possible. Much cleaner than the filth needed to build batteries...and infinitely renewable:devil:. 

It would be nice to see proper engines common (and politically acceptable) again. 

Peter

3 x V8 (Range Rover, Porsche, SBC)
1 x V6 (Busso)
2 x I6 (Supercharged Jaguar and Mercedes)
1 x I4 (Nord)
:driver:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Fentum said:


> I'm rather hoping that hydrogen technology will come on and that retro-conversions to petrol cars will be possible. Much cleaner than the filth needed to build batteries...and infinitely renewable:devil:.
> 
> It would be nice to see proper engines common (and politically acceptable) again.
> 
> ...


A man of my own heart if you are going to kill the planet do it in style :lol: or rote in :devil: that's the other option for me.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

Fentum said:


> I'm rather hoping that hydrogen technology will come on and that retro-conversions to petrol cars will be possible. Much cleaner than the filth needed to build batteries...and infinitely renewable:devil:.
> 
> It would be nice to see proper engines common (and politically acceptable) again.
> 
> ...


I have nothing against hydrogen fuel cells, and really hope it takes off as an option along with EV, but the logic is a bit puzzling...

Remember that hydrogen is not a energy source, but energy storage. You need lots of energy to create pure hydrogen, which you then need to store and transport, and then need to create methods of dispensing it.

Why use all the energy to create hydrogen, when you can just use that same energy to directly charge a battery...? Relatively, it's a hugely inefficient process!

Furthermore, I'm limited to only using energy stored as hydrogen in my car. With an EV I can charge it with anything I like, including my own personal energy producing tech, such as solar or wind.

And while it has the capacity to be very clean (like batteries), currently 95% of hydrogen is sourced from natural gas (methane)....

While rapid refuelling is a major issue for some, I think the majority would cope just fine with current EV tech. The vast majority of current EV users charge from home (remember reading that just 18% of all miles driven by EVs was from energy from public charging stations), where time to refuel is a non issue, and is actually more convenient then visiting a petrol station (or hydrogen pump). Superchargers and batteries will continue to develop to make this even less of an issue.

I'm also hopeful that different chemicals can be used to create batteries that don't rely on lithium, such as sodium ion batteries, or so called solid state batteries.


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## Fentum (May 1, 2017)

DrEskimo said:


> I have nothing against hydrogen fuel cells, and really hope it takes off as an option along with EV, but the logic is a bit puzzling...
> 
> Remember that hydrogen is not a energy source, but energy storage. You need lots of energy to create pure hydrogen, which you then need to store and transport, and then need to create methods of dispensing it.
> 
> Why use all the energy to create hydrogen, when you can just use that same energy to directly charge a battery...? Relatively, it's a hugely inefficient process!


Dr Eskimo

Thanks, you're right re the current drawbacks.

I guess I should have said a more efficient way to generate hydrogen. It is, after all, freely available in the form of water, and we need to see if there is a cheap and non-polluting way of separating O from H.

It's just that I want to keep internal combustion a la petrol - batteries/EV don't do it for me, diesel doesn't do it for me.

But YMMV.

Peter


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

Fentum said:


> Dr Eskimo
> 
> Thanks, you're right re the current drawbacks.
> 
> ...


Nope I agree...would love to keep petrol (particularly my V6), but alas it seems there are problems to overcome....

I have no aversion to EV though. The ridiculous performance they can produce is enough to overcome the lack of sound personally speaking....having said that, I've always been a bit of an old man when it comes to noisy cars!
While I love the V6 rumble occasionally, my favourite bit is how quiet and effortless it is when travelling at low RPM...never been one for loud shouty exhausts either!

A reason I've never liked diesels either!

I do agree they are pretty soulless though, so from a passionate car lover, I completely get the argument!


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Surely someone will want to use our amazing public transport network?:doublesho

Good luck to the government they have a massive vote losing task on their hands


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

Hydrogen is an utter PITA however you want to do it.

First, you have to obtain the stuff. That is not straight forward and using electricity to do it is going to be difficult because electrolysis is not particularly efficient. If you are going to use process heat then you might as well go the whole hog and make synthetic hydrocarbons instead, they are easier to use in practice.

Lithium is not some nasty deadly chemical- it is obtained in salt form from the Earth's crust. It is not technically a heavy metal but like many others does have some biological interactions.

Brine recovery is a darn sight better for the environment that obtaining coal or oil from the ground. It might not look very pretty but none of the soil sands pictures you will see are either.

Whatever path is chosen you need only look at the scale of the fossil fuel industry to realise it is definitely going to be a very very big deal, hence my chagrin at seeing people post about this issue like it is just flash in the pan- it isn't this is going to be a huge industry.

The noise of engines is of course subjective but a large number of them, even petrols today, sound like some kind of industrial appliance. You won't convince me that the noise of some VAG block is the sole reason I should cling to my obsession with hydrocarbon fuels that are laced with carcinogens.


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

This looks interesting:
https://www.autoblog.com/2017/01/16/mazda-skyactiv-engines-hcci-2018/

Still needs petrol, but less of it.


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## baxlin (Oct 8, 2007)

I voted "don't care......", but only because I don't know! Very happy with our two diesels and my petrol kitcar, with no intention of changing any for the foreseeable future.

My last car was a Lexus 2.5 Ltd petrol hybrid, which was certainly very smooth and quiet, but not as economical as diesel, as it was only EV for very short periods. At all other times the lecky motor 'assisted' the ICE, or it was totally petrol, depending on my right foot. 

As to purely EV, well I can't see it happening across the board very soon, as we are led to believe the National Grid can hardly cope at peak times now, let alone the charging time and availability of charging points.

I'm by no means Luddite about EVs, but I'm yet to be convinced.


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## bradleymarky (Nov 29, 2013)

I`ll be too old to care in 23 years. I`ve had diesels for a while but thinking of moving to petrol due to mileage i do.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Shug said:


> This looks interesting:
> https://www.autoblog.com/2017/01/16/mazda-skyactiv-engines-hcci-2018/
> 
> Still needs petrol, but less of it.


Yes was reading that yesterday, interesting and may be a way of getting round the internal combustion rules?


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

I'll be 71 and won't be driving. I'll be using my helecopter and luxury yacht to ship women on and off my private island.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Shiny said:


> I'll be 71 and won't be driving. I'll be using my helecopter and luxury yacht to ship women on and off my private island.


Heaven is certainly a great sounding place , but how do you know your not going to:devil::lol:


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Derekh929 said:


> Heaven is certainly a great sounding place , but how do you know your not going to:devil::lol:


:lol::lol::lol:

They shut the doors to me a long time ago. I'm not wanted downstairs either, apparently there's only so much they can handle.

I think the life of the undead in glorious limbo is the only way left for me.

_"....BRAINS....BRAINS...."_


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Shiny said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> They shut the doors to me a long time ago. I'm not wanted downstairs either, apparently there's only so much they can handle.
> 
> ...


I see so your heading to Dreamsvil that's where I will likely be heading if the better half don't send me to hell before then:lol:


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