# Other peoples driving.



## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

Wow - I've seen it all today.

Old man in a old Lexus didn't give way to me so I beeped my horn, his response was to beep back and stick his finger up. Charming. 

BMW driver on rural road nearly clipped my car because he decided to cut a corner.

Mercedes driver doing some serious tailgating, weaving in and out. He tried to overtake a few times but failed. I pulled over in the end because he was SERIOUSLY freaking me out. 

AUDI driver pulled out in the front of me causing me to almost do a emergency stop. He then continued at 35mph in 60mph zone. I resisted beeping my horn this time as in the past I've had people get extremely angry about this. Even though they are in the wrong.

They say young drivers are the worst on the road. I'm starting to disagree, it seems to be middle-aged/old men or women driving executive German cars that are the worst.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Err..........










I must resist, time for hot chocolate.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Young drivers are by far the worst. Facts prove this time and again. 

If you find yourself in dangerous positions over and over, sometimes you have to think why you end up in so many dangerous situations in the first place. 

I've personally found young boys in Vauxhalls and Fords to be the poorest and most aggressive. 

Crashing, beeping horns, racing, driving round in circles in car parks, up and down main streets all night revving the nuts off the cars and generally a nuisance to other road users.


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## Panther (Jan 19, 2012)

Kerr said:


> Young drivers are by far the worst. Facts prove this time and again.
> 
> If you find yourself in dangerous positions over and over, sometimes you have to think why you end up in so many dangerous situations in the first place.
> 
> ...


And i also find that most people that acuse young drivers of being the worst, normally drive like total r-tards themselves. You cannot tar everyone with the same brush. Yes, a lot of young lads and girls like to modify their cars and have louder exhausts or nicer wheels, but that actually means they are more likely to drive sensibly so to avoid damage.

I am 23, have owned modified cars my entire driving life (now 6 years) and have only crashed once (10mph into the back of someone i thought had already pulled off at a roundabout).

Basically, dont be so harsh on the young un's. They are getting moaned at by the old codgers for everything at the moment. Oh, and its normally middle aged or retired people that wind me up on the road. 35mph in a 60.... WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!! :lol:


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

Kerr said:


> Young drivers are by far the worst. Facts prove this time and again.
> 
> If you find yourself in dangerous positions over and over, sometimes you have to think why you end up in so many dangerous situations in the first place.
> 
> ...


It depends on area I suppose. It's quite a affluent area where I'm from.

Honestly though, I cannot recall the last time I had a issue with a younger drive. It seems to be the older driver who is the most aggressive, has sloppy road manners and is a danger on the road.

Also on the list of cars likely to be driven by prats - Range Rovers, Nissan Navaras, Citroen Picassos.

This is just where I live though, I'm not saying all drivers of a certain marque are the same.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Panther said:


> And i also find that most people that acuse young drivers of being the worst, normally drive like total r-tards themselves. You cannot tar everyone with the same brush. Yes, a lot of young lads and girls like to modify their cars and have louder exhausts or nicer wheels, but that actually means they are more likely to drive sensibly so to avoid damage.
> 
> I am 23, have owned modified cars my entire driving life (now 6 years) and have only crashed once (10mph into the back of someone i thought had already pulled off at a roundabout).
> 
> Basically, dont be so harsh on the young un's. They are getting moaned at by the old codgers for everything at the moment. Oh, and its normally middle aged or retired people that wind me up on the road. 35mph in a 60.... WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!! :lol:


There isn't any argument in young drivers are the worst.

Facts prove they are the most dangerous as too many are involved in accidents and seriously injured or killed every year.

I see it on the roads all the time too. There is no argument that they make up a large proportion of the worst drivers. There are some good ones.

I was part of the modified scene for many years and there is different understandings of that.

A group that buy nice cars and spend lots or time and money adding worthwhile modifications to a car. They take care of their cars and generally are more respecting.

The rest are just little neds who think throwing as many bits of plastic and a big bore exhaust on a Corsa, Astra, Fiesta, Focus, Saxo whilst driving like a lunatic and being a nuisance is justified as it's the scene.

I've been there and done it. I used to have a phase 4 MK4 Astra GSi Turbo and there was a clear divide in the modified scene.

I used to go to car shows, race circuits and drag strips.

I'm now 33 and never been at fault for an accident. Someone one rear ended me at a roundabout when the lights were long red. They were too busy watching for traffic and forgot about the lights and me.

That's why I know insure my current 3litre twin turbo BMW for £400.


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## Tisgreen (May 18, 2012)

This is gonna stir a hornets nest...here in Australia...I think that women are far more aggressive whilst driving..I saw one this morning weaving about trying to pass a car...I thought to myself...I bet its a woman....when I caught up at the lights ( yes they had got nowhere by weaving in and out of traffic) it was a woman..

I am glad my GF cant see this cos she is as bad!...


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Tisgreen said:


> This is gonna stir a hornets nest...here in Australia...I think that women are far more aggressive whilst driving..I saw one this morning weaving about trying to pass a car...I thought to myself...I bet its a woman....when I caught up at the lights ( yes they had got nowhere by weaving in and out of traffic) it was a woman..
> 
> I am glad my GF cant see this cos she is as bad!...


Young men are more likely to crash and cause serious damage by driving too fast and dangerously.

Women are more likely to have minor car park bashes and minor accidents.

I did read before women are more likely to crash at junctions as they don't have the same perception of distance and speed as men.


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## lanciamug (May 18, 2008)

I have to agree with both sides on this one. I'm 53 (nearly) and most of the problems I have with other road users, are with geriatrics who, it seems, can no longer drive. Obviously the stats will show that young drivers have more accidents due to their inexperience. The other day I was following a car to a large roundabout (Armley Giratory - Leeds if anyone knows it), I checked for traffic as I approached, non coming, so continued only to find dozy git in front stopped to have a really good look before eventually pulling onto the roundabout. Now I had left a big gap between us and was watching what was happening, so no drama, only frustration. This is exactly the scenario that might cause a young driver to run straight into the back of said dozy, but who would have 'caused' the bump?


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

Kerr said:


> Young drivers are by far the worst. Facts prove this time and again.


********....to both statements.

It doesn't matter what you drive, how old you are, it's a simple matter of fact..........some people drive like complete idiots.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

lanciamug said:


> I have to agree with both sides on this one. I'm 53 (nearly) and most of the problems I have with other road users, are with geriatrics who, it seems, can no longer drive. Obviously the stats will show that young drivers have more accidents due to their inexperience. The other day I was following a car to a large roundabout (Armley Giratory - Leeds if anyone knows it), I checked for traffic as I approached, non coming, so continued only to find dozy git in front stopped to have a really good look before eventually pulling onto the roundabout. Now I had left a big gap between us and was watching what was happening, so no drama, only frustration. This is exactly the scenario that might cause a young driver to run straight into the back of said dozy, but who would have 'caused' the bump?


If you hit a car from behind it would in those circumstances, it would be your fault.


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## lanciamug (May 18, 2008)

True, but the point I'm making is that in the case of an inexperienced driver being involved in that accident, the dozy old git has created a scenario that leads to the accident. Anyone driving well wouldn't have put the poor young driver in that position to make the mistake.


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## lanciamug (May 18, 2008)

What are you doing up at 2am? I'm working!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

T.D.K said:


> Wow - I've seen it all today.
> 
> Old man in a old Lexus didn't give way to me so I beeped my horn, his response was to beep back and stick his finger up. Charming.
> 
> ...


and yet, the only thing that connects all these stories of 'bad driving' is YOU.

best get the mirror out eh....

Or at least maybe take the chip off your shoulder about 'executive German cars' for a start...



:lol:


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Doing 55-60k a year, my experience is that there is no pattern, young and old, male and female, expensive and cheap cars - bad driving across the board - although drivers of mid-size MPV's tend to be universally inattentive / slow / discourteous

It all comes down to whether you have pride in your driving or merely see it as a means of getting from A to B

I drive on the principle that I expect people to do the unexpected, probably why I'm accident free for the last million miles (20+ years).

I have had the benefit of a lot of professional driver coaching and time on the track - most of all though, I take great pride in how I drive

Yesterday I was coming down the A519 from Stoke to Eccleshall, drive the road 4-5 times a week and know it like the back of my hand. I was behind a woman in her early 20's with a male passenger, she was travelling at 40-45 mph but I simply sat there about 2-3 car lengths behind waiting for the spots where I know its safe to overtake. Stupid cow was forever putting on her hazards, dabbing her brakes, male passenger constantly gesticulating at me, when I passed I got V signs out of the windows, flashing of headlights - I honestly had no idea what I had done wrong

After 1-2 miles of her flashing her lights I'd had enough and slowed down gradually. she clearly panicked and pulled into a layby - I'd have loved to have found out what she thought I'd done wrong


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> and yet, the only thing that connects all these stories of 'bad driving' is YOU.
> 
> best get the mirror out eh....
> 
> ...


Those S8 drivers... Absolutely terrible 

Cuey, sorry, but there does seem to be a prevalence towards exec cars and ignorant/unaware driving, because that's the kind of people that drive them generally 

BTW, lexus isn't german


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> Those S8 drivers... Absolutely terrible
> 
> Cuey, sorry, but there does seem to be a prevalence towards exec cars and ignorant/unaware driving, because that's the kind of people that drive them generally
> 
> BTW, lexus isn't german


I don't agree.... there are pathetic drivers with all cars... I would suggest that the "exec" ones are just remembered more... for whatever reason...rolleyes

maybe someone in a 40/50k + car gets more hassle..... 

Why do I get waved out of junctions etc more often in the Abarth than I ever did/do in the XKR or the S8... same route, same driver, same situation... 

I'm aware about Lexus, I was quoting the OP's phrase... 

:thumb:


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## TubbyTwo (Apr 14, 2011)

I find the solution to most of the problems is to ensure that you have a far more powerfull car than everyone else.


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

I had an HGV driver at a roundabout this morning. I was on the roundabout he was entering. 

He didn't slow down as he didn't want to lose his Revs. Basically tried to bully me into stopping on the roundabout so he could carry on his way.

I drove like I hadn't seen him just long enough to make him brake. I think the grin and the thumbs up might have been what annoyed him the most though.

I don't usually have trouble with other motorists, you can usually tell what they are going to do. A trilby in a Honda is a clear give away. As is MASSIVE sunglasses in a rear view mirror.

Not to mention the morning rush of oversized vehicles with a blind spot that means you basically can't see anything under 5 foot tall at schools dropping all the less than 5 foot children off. Whilst on the phone.

It's just the odd one that catches me out and, I've been OK in avoiding them as well so far

Sometimes you have to be willing to change what you do for the betterment of all the road users. Like the Merc driver. Better let him get where he wants to go than hold him up until he causes an accident.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> I don't agree.... there are pathetic drivers with all cars... I would suggest that the "exec" ones are just remembered more... for whatever reason...rolleyes
> 
> maybe someone in a 40/50k + car gets more hassle.....
> 
> ...


There are, but the majority of people I seem to find tailgating are in audis or bmw x5s  I'm not so sure it's because they're exec cars, more, the kind of cars which are provided as a benefit for some jobs.

If they were exec cars presumably they'd at least not be bog standard spec a4's 

If someone in a 40/50k gets more hassle, then surely masers, bentleys etc would get more hassle?

The abarth is a cool car, people love it. I'd let it out sooner than a boring audi  The XKR would just break down in front of me


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> There are, but the majority of people I seem to find tailgating are in audis or bmw x5s  I'm not so sure it's because they're exec cars, more, the kind of cars which are provided as a benefit for some jobs.
> 
> If they were exec cars presumably they'd at least not be bog standard spec a4's
> 
> ...


Funny, the people that most often tailgate me these days are mums... usually with their kids in the car as well... idiots...

But yes, you will always get the cheap spec'd cars zooming about on the motorways... just get out their road... if they want to speed, let them...

I normally let them by, then chase them... their cars run out of steam very quickly compared to the S8... then I waft by, with the [email protected] sign usually gets them... :lol:

They are usually wearing cheap shiny suits and big knoted ties too.. can spot them a mile away! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Have you ever tried to drive a Bentley through Glasgow?!?!! :lol: :wall::wall:

and my XKR never once broke down... must be your Datsun you are thinking about... 



:thumb:


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## Sirmally2 (Feb 28, 2011)

I would like to point out that i am 26 and have been driving since 17. I'm always courtious to other drivers where possible and drive within the law "most" of the time. I say most as everyone is guilty of some mistermeanr...

I do however get quite agitated with other drivers who frequently flout the law, and take stupid risks. For this reason i am getting a Windscreen mounted CCTV camera in my car. Should one of these clowns eventually hit me or somebody infront then i'll have conclusive proof on whos at fault


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## Dannbodge (Sep 26, 2010)

I have been driving since I was 17 and can honestly say I was very bad when I was younger.
I think 17 is too young to drive and should be put up to 18


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Judging by the profitability of insurance companies, it's safe to say they know which drivers pose the largest risks.


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## Sirmally2 (Feb 28, 2011)

S63 said:


> Judging by the profitability of insurance companies, it's safe to say they know which drivers pose the largest risks.


The less experienced drivers...

Always due to lack of experience im afraid. A pass plus should be mandatory and should be a minimum of 20 hours behind the wheel after passing


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Sirmally2 said:


> The less experienced drivers...
> 
> Always due to lack of experience im afraid. A pass plus should be mandatory and should be a minimum of 20 hours behind the wheel after passing


and motorway driving before they pass!!!!!

:wall::wall::wall::wall:


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

Kerr said:


> If you hit a car from behind it would in those circumstances, it would be your fault.


I would have to agree with this!

I think some people assume that others drivers should & do drive in the same way they do & therefore make all sort of assumptions on the road.

I always er on the side of caution! Never assume that the car in front is going to accelerate away, wait until there's a clear space in front before accelerating smoothly (not like it's a race). 
Who know's, even if there's time for the car in front to go, they could stall or suddenly breakdown etc1

I find that idiot drivers come in all ages & both sexes.
The company rep car drivers in their BM's & Audi's always in a rush, tailgating etc, mums in their 4x4 or MPV's on the school run etc etc.

I just think the younger drivers gain more attention as they stand out visibly with loud music & modded cars.

What also does my head in is that when there's a red light up ahead or traffic, drivers are still on the gas pedel until the very last moment & then brake! Why not ease of the gas and slow down smoothly? Who know's by the time you reach the lights they may have already turned green and there's no need to stop! 
It's good for the MPG, car & smoother ride, & less likely to cause an accident.


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

lanciamug said:


> True, but the point I'm making is that in the case of an inexperienced driver being involved in that accident, the dozy old git has created a scenario that leads to the accident. Anyone driving well wouldn't have put the poor young driver in that position to make the mistake.


I disagree, either the driver behind was looking to see it was clear immediately infront or was not. 
It's very easily avoided! Wait & stay back at a safe distance.


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

andy665 said:


> Doing 55-60k a year, my experience is that there is no pattern, young and old, male and female, expensive and cheap cars - bad driving across the board - although drivers of mid-size MPV's tend to be universally inattentive / slow / discourteous
> 
> It all comes down to whether you have pride in your driving or merely see it as a means of getting from A to B
> 
> ...


Spot on!!!:thumb:


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## Multipla Mick (Feb 5, 2006)

Young/old/middle aged/male/female/hard to tell/BMW drivers/Volvo drivers/Saxo drivers with [email protected] caps and knackered shocks/CSMA badges and flat caps/4x4 school run mums/white vans/cyclists/weirdy beardies etc, not that I like to stereo type, I just hate 'em all  Treat 'em all as potential nitwits and you won't be disappointed :thumb: But I must say, old coffin dodgers crumpled in a pile of old bones and trembling withered fingers peering through the steering wheel of automatics really do worry me, and I give them as wide a berth as possible. Personally witnessed three examples of an old ruin losing control in an automatic over the years. Scary.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Love the German car bashing!! 

For me its people at fuel stations who cant pick a god damn pump in turn block a whole road grinds my gears!!!


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> Funny, the people that most often tailgate me these days are mums... usually with their kids in the car as well... idiots...
> 
> But yes, you will always get the cheap spec'd cars zooming about on the motorways... just get out their road... if they want to speed, let them...
> 
> ...


I can't say i've ever driven a bentley 

Ok, break down was a bit harsh  Doors falling off from rusting away?


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## NickP (Nov 20, 2005)

Multipla Mick said:


> Young/old/middle aged/male/female/hard to tell/BMW drivers/Volvo drivers/Saxo drivers with [email protected] caps and knackered shocks/CSMA badges and flat caps/4x4 school run mums/white vans/cyclists/weirdy beardies etc, not that I like to stereo type, I just hate 'em all  Treat 'em all as potential nitwits and you won't be disappointed :thumb: But I must say, old coffin dodgers crumpled in a pile of old bones and trembling withered fingers peering through the steering wheel of automatics really do worry me, and I give them as wide a berth as possible. Personally witnessed three examples of an old ruin losing control in an automatic over the years. Scary.


You forgot the people with the 'Fish' symbol on their cars!


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## avit88 (Mar 19, 2012)

i have to say that most people who irritate me with their bad driving are:

school run mums tailgaiting
middle aged women who pull out at roundabouts whilst staring up into the sky
men in their 50-60's who can see me coming down the road but then pull out and dont accelerate
men who are in late 40's early 50's in executive company cars who come barreling up ur **** when it completely clear there is no way past, nor is it possible for me to go faster due to traffic. 
people who do 40 in a 30 and then keep doing 40 when it gets to a 60 zone!
also coppers who drive at 70and snare up the entire motorway because nobody can pass!


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## Multipla Mick (Feb 5, 2006)

NickP said:


> You forgot the people with the 'Fish' symbol on their cars!


Ooo yeah  :lol: Leave them plenty of room, they put their faith in God to see them safely on their way, while the rest of us make do with our own skill and an insurance policy from Lloyd on here. And they're always happy, flipping smiling and humming tambourine bashing tunes to themselves. I hate happy people  :lol:


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## Multipla Mick (Feb 5, 2006)

avit88 said:


> also coppers who drive at 70and snare up the entire motorway because nobody can pass!


Oh blimey. They're not so bad at 70, it's when they trundle along a motorway in lane one at 60 and gather a big crowd of cars around them all scared of overtaking them :wall:

But, beware of the frustrated right foot. The bike club I was in had a talk by a Jam sandwich pilot and he said his favourite trick when he gathers a crowd is to go off at the next junction, then straight back on again down the entry slip and and to go looking for whoever has thought 'good he's gone - hammer time!' Reckoned he and his partner would take bets using their mirrors on which of the cars around them would be the one that hoofs it and gets nabbed :lol:


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## Coops (Apr 26, 2008)

I generally find that "older" people cause the most problems. Couple of situations spring to mind:

Recently we wer in Eastbourne (yeah good start eh!), we were looking for somewhere to park along the sea front. I was driving relatively slowly (nothing behind me) looking for a space and saw one on the opposite side of the road. Probably not the best thing to do, but as there wasn't much traffic around I indicated to cross any oncoming traffic to park in the space. There were about 4 cars coming the other way, the first of which kindly flashed to let me cross and park. Next thing I know, some elderly gent in a Merc A Class barrels up the inside of the 4 or so cars, flashing his lights and waving and shouting, claiming that was _HIS_ space, he saw it first (from where I don't know) and that he needed to unload to the hotel it was outside. I politely suggested he was talking rubbish and that if he needed to unload then being parked 2m further away wasn't really a problem. As I walked away to the pay machine he continued to rant and swear at me, in front of my 2 children. So I calmly walked up to him, confronted him and suggested words to the effect of "....and they say young folk don't respect the elderly....., I think you need to look in the mirror my friend". He calmed down after that. FOOL.

The other incident was in Weymouth, I think. Again looking for a parking space! Drove found a corner and found a small car park which held about 10-12 cars. One was empty but some (oldish) woman seemed to be hovering around near it. So I drove past the space, and began to reverse in, expecting her to move out the way - she didn't. As I reversed she wouldn't budge and starting banging on the back of the car, which I didn't take to kindly too as you can expect. I started to reverse again but she wouldn't move. I got out and was immeadiately confronted by a torrent of abuse which included something like "this is our space, my husband has gone to move the car". I said "so what you can't just stand in spaces" and began to reverse again. She hurled some more abuse but this time directed it at my wife and she seemed to suggest that she wasn't the best looking girl in the world (which is obviously not true!) - as you can imagine my wife wasn't too impressed and promptly got out to have a few choice words with this woman. This worked a treat because the woman then moved away from the space which allowed me to reverse!!! Her husband turned up in the car some time later and seemed quite embarrassed at what was going one because by this stage she had started throwing bread (from her sandwich) at my car (very hard!). Needless to say he very quickly got her back in their car and drove off. How my wife didn't pummel her head in I don't know!!!!

I always try to treat people how I expect to be treated but for some unknown reason, there is a minority of "old" people who think they have a god given right to everything and this really annoys me :wall:

Anyways, rant over, the sun is shining


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

Oh yes.

Having just been on holiday to Dorset, the amount of coffin dodgers that are terrible, terrible drivers is unreal.

And i mean terrible. The simplest of things like how to drive up and down a hill seems beyond them. 

Not to mention the complete and utter selfishness of mobile home drivers. Total arseholes the lot of them. Usually wearing a red sun visor with an elastic back too.


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## President Swirl (Oct 23, 2011)

I did respond to this post earlier, but the silicone overlord deemed it unworthy. I can't be bothered to re-type it. ( It was longer than this post, so don't worry fans of irony )


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

I can see that the OP sees himself as a "Master Class" driver, but the fact that you get involved in so many "dangerous situations" states clearly the opposite. 
Keep your distance, look ahead, look in your mirror before you brake, don’t hang in the middle lane far to long and expect the unexpected!
I did with my Mondeo 100.000 with the same brake discs and only needed 1 pair of pads front and back in that mileage ...but I have a name of a very fast driver. 
I cover my distance over the national speed limit but drive in a smooth matter.
If I drive on the motorway, I know what is in front of me, at the back of me and on any side, I see already a mile away the car in the slow lane is catching up with a lorry and I move a lane up.
I manage very often to put the cruise control on in Glasgow and don’t come of until Birmingham, doing between 75-85 miles/hr depending on traffic. 
Why? Because I think ahead. 
If you are coming onto a roundabout, you shouldn't move forward until the space in front is empty, this is the where the most rear end shunts happen, creating insurers claims. 
To many young drivers think they can drive because they have a license, A license only proofs that on that day and time the driver was able to pass a test with the minimum legal required standards. 
You learn driving after years. 
If I look at our company fleet, for the mileage they have very little accidents, and yes they are executive cars with fast aggressive drivers, but experience and training makes them be able to cope with most things put to them. 
That where young drivers fail, and by the way with them stereo's that loud, they cannot even concentrate properly


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

T.D.K said:


> Wow - I've seen it all today.
> 
> Old man in a old Lexus didn't give way to me so I beeped my horn, his response was to beep back and stick his finger up. Charming.
> 
> ...


I've read or at least glanced over every post in this thread...

The OPs post and some following by others suggest a lack of patience, experience and tolerance.

I personally think the problem is linked to the British tradition of queuing and following rules. We grow up learning that you don't skip queues... when you grow up and someone skips a queue in a shop or on the road it triggers a reaction that is undersirable especially on the road when you're in control of a 1.5ton killing machine. The same goes for people who 'break the rules' i.e. not giving way when you think they should. It makes you feel 'wronged', that the other person is 'bad' and should be punished for what they did (that's what happens when you're a kid right?).

People will pull out in front of you. Avoid a collision and let it go then be thankfull you're still around to feel 'wronged'.

People will cut corners. Avoid a collision and let it go then be thankfull you're still around to feel 'wronged'.

People will tailgate. Let them go on their way... occasionally there will be a very good reason for someone to be in such a hurry...

Doing 35 in a 60 is less wrong than beeping at someone just because you're annoyed about them pulling in front of you.

As a 'group' young drivers are the highest risk on the road. It's fact based on lots of things but mostly 'inexperience'.

Being able to handle a car and being a good driver are not the same thing. Being a good driver is about 'attitude' more than anything else however you can't be old and wise until you have first been young and stupid.


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> and yet, the only thing that connects all these stories of 'bad driving' is YOU.
> 
> best get the mirror out eh....
> 
> ...


So if I don't drive, then these things won't happen?

Sorry but all the points I raised in the original post are the result of shoddy driving and horrendous bad manners on the road.

- The Lexus should have given way.

- The AUDI should have actually checked the roads were clear before pulling out.

- The other BMW should have stuck to his side of the road. If I can do it in the GTC, he must be able to in the ultimate driving machine.

- The Mercedes should have respected the fact there was someone in front of him. I was doing 60 in the 60 zone so no fault of my own there.

None of these were the fault of my own, I just happened to be the poor sod who had to deal with them.

For my German exec car kicks, I use my dad's new Audi A4 :thumb:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

The fact remains that the only thing connecting them all is YOU...

so chill out.... and learn how not to be that "poor sod" 

:thumb:


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## J1ODY A (Nov 28, 2008)

The Cueball said:


> Funny, the people that most often tailgate me these days are mums... usually with their kids in the car as well... idiots...
> 
> But yes, you will always get the cheap spec'd cars zooming about on the motorways... just get out their road... if they want to speed, let them...
> 
> I normally let them by, then chase them... their cars run out of steam very quickly compared to the S8... then I waft by, with the [email protected] sign usually gets them... Just before I spot the policeman with a speed gun on the fly over!


Edited for accuracy.

As for the topic, every driver is a twit if they are in my way... I don't usually have a problem with the ones behind me.

Sent via tapadapawapaslappatalk


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## JoeNobody (Feb 21, 2010)

Nanoman said:


> Doing 35 in a 60 is less wrong than beeping at someone just because you're annoyed about them pulling in front of you.


Interesting point this one. Unless environmental conditions dictate otherwise then I'd suggest you're actually wrong. Certainly driving at 35 in a 60 could mean a test fail, if it happened while taking your test - not sure of the official terms, but it indicates a lack of awareness of your surroundings. Beeping your horn when someone pulls out in front of you would serve very well at letting the driver know that you're there, and could help to avoid an accident, particularly if they weren't aware of your presence...

That said though, the last time I beeped someone who pulled out in front of me (didn't give way to me at a roundabout) they slammed on the brakes and I nearly ran in to them. If I hadn't already been hard on the brakes because they hadn't given way then I would have t-boned their car. I wouldn't have minded too much, as it had been safe for them the enter the roundabout initially, but they waited, looked right at me, waited a bit more, then went, by which time I was nearly on top of them.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

J1ODY A said:


> Edited for accuracy.
> 
> As for the topic, every driver is a twit if they are in my way... I don't usually have a problem with the ones behind me.
> 
> Sent via tapadapawapaslappatalk


:lol:

The ones I don't get, are when they don't want to move out your way, say in the 3rd lane of a motorway... even though the middle lane is clear, and they wouldn't have to slow down... anyway, for whatever reason they will not budge from the 3rd lane...

I'm wanting to go faster than them, so I move into the middle lane and go by... (yes, yes naughty I know, but I have a big, proper German car  and if the Americans can work it out, then it's not dangerous in any way.... :lol then they suddenly get all upset, flash lights, have a moan and try and keep up!??!!?

What's all that about?!?!?!

:lol::lol::lol:

:thumb:


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

JoeNobody said:


> Unless environmental conditions dictate otherwise then I'd suggest you're actually wrong. Certainly driving at 35 in a 60 could mean a test fail, if it happened while taking your test - not sure of the official terms, but it indicates a lack of awareness of your surroundings. Beeping your horn when someone pulls out in front of you would serve very well at letting the driver know that you're there, and could help to avoid an accident, particularly if they weren't aware of your presence...


Apart from the fact that beeping at someone because they've pulled out in front of you i.e. annoyed you, is legally wrong not to mention stupid. A horn should only be used to avoid an accident, not to vent/show your anger.

Then there's you assuming that it's a road where 60 is a safe speed. How many examples of roads with 60 limits where it's entirely unsafe regardless of 'environmental conditions' would you like me to provide? I can throw in a few where the limit is lower and could easily be higher as well if you like. Maybe diong 35 in a 60 indicates a complete awareness of your surroundings even more than the people who are doing 60 and didn't spot the hazards you did which is why you're doing 25.

Legally and morally I don't believe I am wrong.

P.S. It sounds like you may also be an illegal horn user. Were you surprised when the other driver reacted agressively to your aggressive use of the horn? That's unless you were forced to use the horn to avoid a collision.

P.P.S Do you now get what I mean about attitude being what makes you a good/bad driver?


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## nilitara (May 2, 2008)

My hate is people who don't indicate!! Roundabouts been the worst. Sitting there, giving the right of way, only to see them turn left with no indication!!!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

nilitara said:


> My hate is people who don't indicate!! Roundabouts been the worst. Sitting there, giving the right of way, only to see them turn left with no indication!!!


Just watch their wheels... that shows you where the car is heading... doesn't matter about their use (or lack of) indicators...

:thumb:


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## MickChard (May 12, 2012)

Just to add my two peneth! I just witnessed a woman prob in her 60's (ish) pull into a small car park and reverse into a bin not once, not twice but 3 times and ten decided to turn said car around in the car park to park forward into a space and smack into a black vectra parked in the adjoining space! She then walked into the shop and was about to drive away without a word until Someone stopped her and pointed out what she had done, to which she replied " I didn't do that " unfortunately for her the corresponding black vectra paint on her silver Honda civic and visa versa caught her out!! I witnessed the whole debacle an it was ridiculous from start to finish!


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

T.D.K said:


> Sorry but all the points I raised in the original post are the result of shoddy driving and horrendous bad manners on the road.


And beeping at other road users isn't?

Sorry, if other road users annoy you too easily, you're a prime target to cause/ be involved in an accident. You're stress levels are going the roof.

Learn to chill, let it go over your head, carry on with your journey....:thumb:


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## JoeNobody (Feb 21, 2010)

Nanoman said:


> A horn should only be used to avoid an accident, not to vent/show your anger.


Not quite correct - The horn. Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence. Never sound your horn aggressively.. I'll admit it's a fine line between using the horn to notify someone of your presence and using it aggressively, however if someone's pulled out in front of you then there's a strong chance they're not aware of your presence. I believe notifying them, in most circumstances, is the sensible thing to do.



> Then there's you assuming that it's a road where 60 is a safe speed. How many examples of roads with 60 limits where it's entirely unsafe regardless of 'environmental conditions' would you like me to provide? I can throw in a few where the limit is lower and could easily be higher as well if you like. Maybe diong 35 in a 60 indicates a complete awareness of your surroundings even more than the people who are doing 60 and didn't spot the hazards you did which is why you're doing 25.


And there's you assuming that I was assuming. All you've done there is explain 'environmental conditions' in more words than I did - given that environment means the aggregate of surrounding things, conditions, or influences; surroundings;. Mostly I believe that people drive slower than the speed limit when it's safe to do so either because they're unaware of the speed limit (e.g. driving 40 or 50 in a 60, or 60 on a dual-carriageway). In a few cases I can put this down to unclear signage, but mostly that's not the case.



> Legally and morally I don't believe I am wrong.


That's clear, but I still don't agree  In fact, if you read this information from the CPS on Driving without reasonable consideration - Section 3 RTA 1988 (search for the text, there are no direct links to the relevant section) it states that "unnecessarily slow driving or braking without good cause;" could be considered at careless driving, so the legal standpoint is shaky at the very least.



> P.S. It sounds like you may also be an illegal horn user. Were you surprised when the other driver reacted agressively to your aggressive use of the horn? That's unless you were forced to use the horn to avoid a collision.


How do you know it was aggressive use of the horn? As per the above, I believe I was just making them aware of my presence. Also, where did I say the reaction was aggressive? I believe the reaction was actually more panic - along the lines of "sh*t, I f*cked up there, what can I do? I know, I'll stop". It wouldn't be my reaction, to come almost to a complete stop in the middle of two lanes on a roundabout, but I can understand where the reaction came from. Personally, if someone beeped me in a situation like that my reaction would be along the lines of "accelerate away from any potential danger". To be honest, I used to be an illegal horn user, but after a couple of invitations to pull over to receive a kicking I stopped using it except in extreme circumstances where I feel it's necessary which, fortunately, is rare. Generally I just expect that everyone else on the road is an idiot and try, as much as possible, to expect the unexpected. The idiots still catch me out from time to time 



> P.P.S Do you now get what I mean about attitude being what makes you a good/bad driver?


I always did get it. Not sure where you how read that I didn't.


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

my pet hate is these drivers that overtake you with high speed on the motorway, and when they see a Hato or a patrol car they hit the brakes that hard that the fog lights scrape over the tarmac, to go back to 65 that everybody at the back of them nearly writes the car of.

- first of all if it's a policecar they have seen you already.
- second I never slow down if I am under 90mph and the circumstances (weather, traffic and road surface) are ok to do so. 
I have never been stopped for overtaking a police car on the motorway or dual carrriage way. 
Don't try to overtake a police car with blues and two's


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

Caledoniandream said:


> my pet hate is these drivers that overtake you with high speed on the motorway, and when they see a Hato or a patrol car they hit the brakes that hard that the fog lights scrape over the tarmac, to go back to 65 that everybody at the back of them nearly writes the car of.
> 
> - first of all if it's a policecar they have seen you already.
> - second I never slow down if I am under 90mph and the circumstances (weather, traffic and road surface) are ok to do so.
> ...


90 where you doing this German Autobahn or a private test track?


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

Ninja59 said:


> 90 where you doing this German Autobahn or a private test track?


Of course I would only do this on a private test track, nobody does such a thing on the public highway:doublesho


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

Nanoman said:


> People will pull out in front of you. Avoid a collision and let it go then be thankfull you're still around to feel 'wronged'.
> 
> okay fair deal but if they are not aware of your presence then if you use the horn not between 11pm and 5/6am i think it is (avoidance only) then it is fair game,
> 
> ...


in red.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

Caledoniandream said:


> Of course I would only do this on a private test track, nobody does such a thing on the public highway:doublesho


i am not being a smarta8se in anyway but doing 90 tbh is just asking for it.however if you want to in the outside lane then i will watch whilst i do 70 or within ACPO guides


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## DarrylB (Feb 17, 2006)

love how these threads turn in to a ***-for-tat banter match  

I normally come across *some* type of poor driving to and from my way to work becasue I use the M4 towards London and have the missfortune of having to work in the joy that is Hayes.

Lane hoggers, last minute lane changers, the ones that go up the slip road all the way to the end of it and push in just to get 4 cars ahead, the non indicators, the ones on their phone (followed a 12 plate focus yesterday and watched it bump off the kerb twice - lass was on her phone) the undertakers. I see it all....and guess what...

I let them get on with it! My time is too precious to waste ranting at them, plus it would just make me stressed, and who wants that? but the best thing is - you can tell them a mile off so you can easily give them the space 

I have also adapted my driving style to be much like that of a biker I suspect (never actaully riden a motorbike on the road) becasue I drive a VX220 which is tiny and low, even though its bright orange you'll be surprised how many people dont see me. So I cover the brake when I see a car waiting at a junction etc and stuff like that. leave a big gap, watch my mirrors etc.

oh and by the way, the current trend on the M4 between junction 5 and 3 is to start to move over in to the next lane, indicate once when you're halfway over the line and then complete the manouvre.


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

Nanoman said:


> I've read or at least glanced over every post in this thread...
> 
> The OPs post and some following by others suggest a lack of patience, experience and tolerance.
> 
> ...


Rural road, hardly any places to pull in plus I was doing the national speed limit so I don't see why I should have had to do pull in. I did so as he was seemingly trying to ram me off the road - utter prat and if I could, I would report him for dangerous driving.

He wasn't in a hurry, he just wants the road for himself and sod everyone who gets in his way.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

My current pet hate is people driving the wrong way down clearly marked one way routes around car parks - WHY. I simply drive down the middle and if something approaches me going in the wrong direction I simply sit and wait for them to move out of the way, normally to a torrent of abuse. I never get annoyed, I just sit there and smile, knowing that this only winds them up even more

It always seems to be those in the wrong who do all the ranting and raving


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

JoeNobody said:


> Not quite correct - The horn. Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence. Never sound your horn aggressively.. I'll admit it's a fine line between using the horn to notify someone of your presence and using it aggressively, however if someone's pulled out in front of you then there's a strong chance they're not aware of your presence. I believe notifying them, in most circumstances, is the sensible thing to do.


In my opinion I only need to make a road user aware of my presence to avoid an accident proactively or reactively. I believe Roadcraft advises the same - i.e. a proactive flash of the lights.



JoeNobody said:


> And there's you assuming that I was assuming. All you've done there is explain 'environmental conditions' in more words than I did - given that environment means the aggregate of surrounding things, conditions, or influences; surroundings;. Mostly I believe that people drive slower than the speed limit when it's safe to do so either because they're unaware of the speed limit (e.g. driving 40 or 50 in a 60, or 60 on a dual-carriageway). In a few cases I can put this down to unclear signage, but mostly that's not the case.
> 
> That's clear, but I still don't agree  In fact, if you read this information from the CPS on Driving without reasonable consideration - Section 3 RTA 1988 (search for the text, there are no direct links to the relevant section) it states that "unnecessarily slow driving or braking without good cause;" could be considered at careless driving, so the legal standpoint is shaky at the very least.


Any goods vehicle over 7.5tonnes is limited to 40mph on a single carriageway. Since 35mph is only 5mph below this I'm not sure the legislation you refer to is aimed at those doing 35mph in a 60mph. Beeping your horn at someone just because you are annoyed is agressive whichever way you look at it. I still don't think I'm wrong - I think you might be misguided.



JoeNobody said:


> How do you know it was aggressive use of the horn? As per the above, I believe I was just making them aware of my presence. Also, where did I say the reaction was aggressive? I believe the reaction was actually more panic - along the lines of "sh*t, I f*cked up there, what can I do? I know, I'll stop". It wouldn't be my reaction, to come almost to a complete stop in the middle of two lanes on a roundabout, but I can understand where the reaction came from. Personally, if someone beeped me in a situation like that my reaction would be along the lines of "accelerate away from any potential danger". To be honest, I used to be an illegal horn user, but after a couple of invitations to pull over to receive a kicking I stopped using it except in extreme circumstances where I feel it's necessary which, fortunately, is rare. Generally I just expect that everyone else on the road is an idiot and try, as much as possible, to expect the unexpected. The idiots still catch me out from time to time
> 
> I always did get it. Not sure where you how read that I didn't.


You'll find I said "That's unless you were forced to use the horn to avoid a collision".

Like you I used to be (and possibly will be again at some point) an illegal horn user. If you haven't read roadcraft I'd highly recommend it.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Caledoniandream said:


> Keep your distance, look ahead, look in your mirror before you brake, don't hang in the middle lane far to long and expect the unexpected!


Why would you be looking in your mirror before you brake? Are you not going to brake because the idiot is so close behind you?


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

driving test RP your supposed to check the mirror before braking. Although my own instructor simply said tbh you can do nothing about them in a lot of circumstances so why would you.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Ninja59 said:


> driving test RP your supposed to check the mirror before braking. Although my own instructor simply said tbh you can do nothing about them in a lot of circumstances so why would you.


I'm fully aware of the driving test and quite frankly it's a load of balls


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

RisingPower said:


> I'm fully aware of the driving test and quite frankly it's a load of balls


true RP it does not teach you to drive in the real world. but i think that is the point of the comment dear.:lol:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Ninja59 said:


> true RP it does not teach you to drive in the real world. but i think that is the point of the comment dear.:lol:


Coming from someone who is supposed to have experience I call it ironic


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

RisingPower said:


> Coming from someone who is supposed to have experience I call it ironic


PM'ed you great tart.:lol:


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

Kerr said:


> Young drivers are by far the worst. Facts prove this time and again.
> 
> If you find yourself in dangerous positions over and over, sometimes you have to think why you end up in so many dangerous situations in the first place.
> 
> ...


I'm 18 years old and drive a vauxhall.

I haven't crashed, I don't generally beep my horn unless someone does something to **** me off ie pull out in front of me, I do like to drive about town but is that not better than getting wasted out my face? I occassionally rev the nuts off my car when it's safe and when I feel like it. I don't consider myself a nuisance to other road users at all - I often let people out at junctions, give heaps of room when pulling out onto a NSL road etc etc

Tar and brush.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

alan_mcc said:


> I'm 18 years old and drive a vauxhall.
> 
> I haven't crashed, I don't generally beep my horn unless someone does something to **** me off ie pull out in front of me, I do like to drive about town but is that not better than getting wasted out my face? I occassionally rev the nuts off my car when it's safe and when I feel like it. I don't consider myself a nuisance to other road users at all - I often let people out at junctions, give heaps of room when pulling out onto a NSL road etc etc
> 
> Tar and brush.


So basically you are meeting the stereotype in at least one way then?


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

Yes but not all 18 year olds in vauxhalls are idiots. Most are. Just not all.

My mum has been driving for almost 30 years and she's a terrible driver. Despite this, her insurance for the year costs less than one of my monthly payments.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

alan_mcc said:


> Yes but not all 18 year olds in vauxhalls are idiots. Most are. Just not all.
> 
> My mum has been driving for almost 30 years and she's a terrible driver. Despite this, her insurance for the year costs less than one of my monthly payments.


So someone pees you off, you've just lost all awareness and there's no reason for your insurance being high?

It's quite simple really, if lots of people your age didn't have as many accidents, your premium wouldn't be so high.


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

RisingPower said:


> Why would you be looking in your mirror before you brake? Are you not going to brake because the idiot is so close behind you?


First of all I like to know if and what is gone hit me from the back

seconds it make sense to see if the person behind you is aware that you are gone brake, but here comes the difference in between you en me, I drive very defensive, have very seldom the need to brake hard (hence the reason that I do 60.000mile wit a set of brake pads) and so have the time to touch my brakepedal a couple of times to make the car behind me aware.

I'm also a biker and that makes you thousand times more aware of the traffic around you.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Caledoniandream said:


> First of all I like to know if and what is gone hit me from the back
> 
> seconds it make sense to see if the person behind you is aware that you are gone brake, but here comes the difference in between you en me, I drive very defensive, have very seldom the need to brake hard (hence the reason that I do 60.000mile wit a set of brake pads) and so have the time to touch my brakepedal a couple of times to make the car behind me aware.
> 
> I'm also a biker and that makes you thousand times more aware of the traffic around you.


What are you going to do about it if they are right behind you? Brick wall in front, blocked on both sides, car right behind you?

Do you brake or just carry on going?

How do you have a clue how I drive? On country roads where there is good visibility and very changeable conditions, yes, I do use the brakes more, but there's no need if traffic is moving slowly.


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## Jjhart (Jul 7, 2012)

Kerr said:


> There isn't any argument in young drivers are the worst.
> 
> Facts prove they are the most dangerous as too many are involved in accidents and seriously injured or killed every year.
> 
> ...


It maybe the young people who are in accidents more frequently than older drivers, but this isn't doesn't mean it's because they are driving like boy racers, it's down to inexperience. The same as when you learn to ride a bike, you fall off frequently but as you become experienced you don't fall off. It's a learning curve.

In regards to young males/females that drive modified vehicles, I agree with the cars that are "cheap" and modified that do get raced around at the red line constantly are more likely to crash. I personally own a modified car but take great pride on maintaining, driving it sensibly and keeping it road legal. But I don't believe that everyone should be tarnished with the same brush. To me it's abit of a hobby I enjoy being outside working on the car.

That's my small rant over


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

alan_mcc said:


> I'm 18 years old and drive a vauxhall.
> 
> I haven't crashed, I don't generally beep my horn unless someone does something to **** me off ie pull out in front of me, I do like to drive about town but is that not better than getting wasted out my face? I occassionally rev the nuts off my car when it's safe and when I feel like it. I don't consider myself a nuisance to other road users at all - I often let people out at junctions, give heaps of room when pulling out onto a NSL road etc etc
> 
> Tar and brush.


I didn't mean to click "thanks". Your post is unsettling. In a few years I'm sure you'll appreciate the irony of your post.


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## Mattey h (Apr 19, 2011)

There are indeed a lot of bad drivers out there these days, but the worst culprits in my book are cyclists. Whether it be motorcyclists or pushbikers.
I think there must be a totally different highway code issued to cyclists, they certainly can't have read the standard version. They dangerously over take, under take, use obscene hand gestures when you hinder their progress and drive down the centre of lanes of traffic. Then then have the audacity to moan when they get into an accident and claim " didn't you see me mate? ". Hard to spot them when they zoom out of nowhere and invade your space, or braking zone.
Some of the most dangerous manoeuvres I have witnessed are from bikers. They think they own the road, and ride with contempt for all other road users who are not on two wheels.
I nearly had my arm broke by one, when sitting in a traffic jam holding up both sides of the road, and a biker thought it was his god given right to ride down the White line and not have to wait. He knocked off my wing mirror and caught my arm that was hanging out the window. Have even seen bikers using cycle lanes to beat traffic jams. Also why do bikers have to over take a queue of traffic waiting for a red light, then park right at the front? What would happen if you tried this in a car?


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## avit88 (Mar 19, 2012)

oh god i knew it wudnt b too long before someone came out with that old chestnut of 'well if u were in the right position, gear and speed at precisely the right time other ppl wouldnt make driving mistakes'

im sorry but even doing this u will still get morons doing stupid things on the road in front of u.

and before the advanced drivers start popping up- im an advanced driver IAM and RoSPA Gold and it still happens to me......


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## avit88 (Mar 19, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> Why would you be looking in your mirror before you brake? Are you not going to brake because the idiot is so close behind you?


no but if u brake too hard the idiot behind u might not b paying attention and run into u.

i always do a rearward check and will slow gradually if i think they're a dick or they've tailgated me.

they think they r good but really its me who is controlling them


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

I had a lorry run a red light and he was in the wrong lane then he thought "I know I will pull out" right in to the lane he needed which was the lane I was in I had to break hard so I gave him a blast of the horn to this he stopped and got out the lorry and started to walk over to me shouting and swearing at me! Funny thing was I was infront of a family convoy which I had a izusu rodeo, a x5 and a merc stop behind me and 9 big lads get out and start walking up. Ive never seen a lorry driver say "Im really sorry" turn run back and pull off so quickly :lol:


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## J1ODY A (Nov 28, 2008)

With them cars are you a gypo!! 

Sent via tapadapawapaslappatalk


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

Mattey h said:


> There are indeed a lot of bad drivers out there these days, but the worst culprits in my book are cyclists. Whether it be motorcyclists or pushbikers.
> I think there must be a totally different highway code issued to cyclists, they certainly can't have read the standard version. They dangerously over take, under take, use obscene hand gestures when you hinder their progress and drive down the centre of lanes of traffic. Then then have the audacity to moan when they get into an accident and claim " didn't you see me mate? ". Hard to spot them when they zoom out of nowhere and invade your space, or braking zone.
> Some of the most dangerous manoeuvres I have witnessed are from bikers. They think they own the road, and ride with contempt for all other road users who are not on two wheels.
> I nearly had my arm broke by one, when sitting in a traffic jam holding up both sides of the road, and a biker thought it was his god given right to ride down the White line and not have to wait. He knocked off my wing mirror and caught my arm that was hanging out the window. Have even seen bikers using cycle lanes to beat traffic jams. Also why do bikers have to over take a queue of traffic waiting for a red light, then park right at the front? What would happen if you tried this in a car?


I was with you right until the bikers bit.

There are two types, those who have had to take a test and those that don't. Those with are generally better as although the course is short it is all about awareness and safety. I learnt a lot anyway.

He shouldn't have done it if it was so tight he clipped you

When you get them going to the front it's called making up traffic and is what they are meant to do. Some clearly better than others as it has to be clear and room enough to do so plus I'm pretty sure it's only below 20mph but not certain. Obviously not at cross hatchings etc.

So it may not be his god given right, but one given by the highway code.


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

Need to get yourself a BMW T.D.K, far more fun being a **** :thumb: I haven't used my indicators in 2 years.























Joke


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Mattey h said:


> Also why do bikers have to over take a queue of traffic waiting for a red light, then park right at the front? What would happen if you tried this in a car?


It's called the law, perfectly allowed to do this, and filtering between moving traffic is also perfectly acceptable...

love people that have a rant at others, but don't actually know the law 

have you actually ever had the [email protected] to ride a motorbike on the roads?!?

we're aggressive because we have to be, in order just to get home... if more 'cage' drivers understood what it takes and the dangers, they would never moan about them... 

:thumb:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

avit88 said:


> no but if u brake too hard the idiot behind u might not b paying attention and run into u.
> 
> i always do a rearward check and will slow gradually if i think they're a dick or they've tailgated me.
> 
> they think they r good but really its me who is controlling them


How do you brake too hard? You brake for the situation, you're not going to brake any more gently if there's someone behind you and something in front.


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## avit88 (Mar 19, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> How do you brake too hard? You brake for the situation, you're not going to brake any more gently if there's someone behind you and something in front.


err u press the brake pedal hard!?!? 

well depends if u have alot of room in front of u. what alot of people do despite having lots of room in front will still wait until the last minute to brake and the tailgater cud run into the back at u at this point.

really u should have been controlling them to ensure u have plenty of room to slow down so u can brake gradually.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

avit88 said:


> err u press the brake pedal hard!?!?
> 
> well depends if u have alot of room in front of u. what alot of people do despite having lots of room in front will still wait until the last minute to brake and the tailgater cud run into the back at u at this point.
> 
> really u should have been controlling them to ensure u have plenty of room to slow down so u can brake gradually.


Quite a lot of the time you have no choice if you need to brake hard, in the other circumstance you'd presumably have been easing off without even braking far before?

What you're taught to do in the test is check your mirrors just before an emergency stop. Quite simply, that's stupid.


----------



## clarkey1269 (Dec 27, 2010)

Drive as if everyone around you a sh*t driver and you will be perfectly fine.


----------



## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

J1ODY A said:


> With them cars are you a gypo!!
> 
> Sent via tapadapawapaslappatalk


No there African :thumb:


----------



## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> It's called the law, perfectly allowed to do this, and filtering between moving traffic is also perfectly acceptable...


It's acceptable, but I'm sure I read that if the motorcyclist is involved in an accident while splitting lanes they are at fault, even if someone opens their door into them or another road user is changing lanes.


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> It's called the law, perfectly allowed to do this, and filtering between moving traffic is also perfectly acceptable...


Not when they're forcing oncoming traffic onto a pavement full of people it's not. To make it worse this vigilant biker just hurled abuse at the angry motorists who were being forced into a dangerous position. Plus I now have a damaged alloy from climbing the curb to avoid him and dent where he decided to kick the side of my car whilst going past, what a knobend .


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

People using mobile phones while driving makes me SO MAD!

When the Police catch them I think they should be able to confiscate the phone as evidence till the court case.

I have noticed more and more feckin' idiots now who not only speak on their phones but are bloody texting while driving! :doublesho What feckin' morons! They want jailing! :thumb:

When I used to ride a motorcycle, I was 'tail gated' by an ass hole in a BMW thro' a 30 zone. I let him past me and caught up with him at a set of lights.

I must admit I lost it. I pulled along side the drivers side and banged on the window and 'pointed out the error of his ways'.

See what you've done, you've got me going on mobile phone users ... :wall:

My family never mention it because they now whats coming :lol:

I know where it comes from tho'. I used to be a Road Traffic Officer and you wouldn't belove the results I've seen from people using mobiles whilst driving.

Rant over :devil: (for now :lol


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

It's the idiots that pull out on me at a junction in say a 60mph road & after doing so don't put on speed, instead they just piddle along at 40-45mph.

If you're gonna pull out, then put on some speed numpty!


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Laurie.J.M said:


> Not when they're forcing oncoming traffic onto a pavement full of people it's not. To make it worse this vigilant biker just hurled abuse at the angry motorists who were being forced into a dangerous position. Plus I now have a damaged alloy from climbing the curb to avoid him and dent where he decided to kick the side of my car whilst going past, what a knobend .


Anyone that rides like this will soon be cold on a slab. Also any that rides like this is known as a prick not a biker.


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

Bristle Hound said:


> People using mobile phones while driving makes me SO MAD!
> 
> When the Police catch them I think they should be able to confiscate the phone as evidence till the court case.
> 
> ...


This really makes my **** itch too. Why anyone needs to use a phone/text/email/faceache while driving, apart from they are all retarded, is beyond me.

Bluetooth is so cheap these days and all phones come with some sort of hands free kit. Most cars come with Bluetooth these days too. Yet people don't use it  I once watched a **** in a Porsche 911 4S hit the central reservation and spin across 4 lanes on the M6. He narrowly avoided getting squashed by a Eddie Stobart truck only due to the truck driver having lightning reactions. I stopped, along with a couple of others, to help push his car to the hard shoulder. The guy (46yr old business exec) just sat there saying "I'm 46, never once crashed till now, I can't understand what went wrong. I was replying to an email and next thing I spun out!" :doublesho He couldn't understand that replying to an email was wrong as he always did it. Thankfully only his car and pride were dented. But could have been far far worse.

I think if you get caught using your mobile phone to text/email/faceache or call without using BT/HF then they should confiscate your car and crush it. Try explaining that to your boss/wife/insurance/finance company!!


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

vRS Carl said:


> I think if you get caught using your mobile phone to text/email/faceache or call without using BT/HF then they should confiscate your car and crush it. Try explaining that to your boss/wife/insurance/finance company!!


Errr, no. You should be banned for a set period of time IMHO. If it affects your livelihood, then tough, if you loose your job over it, again, tough.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

vRS Carl said:


> This really makes my **** itch too. Why anyone needs to use a phone/text/email/faceache while driving, apart from they are all retarded, is beyond me.
> 
> Bluetooth is so cheap these days and all phones come with some sort of hands free kit. Most cars come with Bluetooth these days too. Yet people don't use it  I once watched a **** in a Porsche 911 4S hit the central reservation and spin across 4 lanes on the M6. He narrowly avoided getting squashed by a Eddie Stobart truck only due to the truck driver having lightning reactions. I stopped, along with a couple of others, to help push his car to the hard shoulder. The guy (46yr old business exec) just sat there saying "I'm 46, never once crashed till now, I can't understand what went wrong. I was replying to an email and next thing I spun out!" :doublesho He couldn't understand that replying to an email was wrong as he always did it. Thankfully only his car and pride were dented. But could have been far far worse.
> 
> I think if you get caught using your mobile phone to text/email/faceache or call without using BT/HF then they should confiscate your car and crush it. Try explaining that to your boss/wife/insurance/finance company!!


Hands free doesn't eradicate the problem, having a telephone conversation for whatever reason is unlike holding a conversation to someone sitting with you in the car, part of your brain is no longer assessing situations every second as you drive and a lack of concentration results, I'm an offender of this, never to my knowledge have I created a situation of hazard but have certainly sailed passed a turn off on the motorway I should have taken.


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

S63 said:


> Hands free doesn't eradicate the problem, having a telephone conversation for whatever reason is unlike holding a conversation to someone sitting with you in the car, part of your brain is no longer assessing situations every second as you drive and a lack of concentration results, I'm an offender of this, never to my knowledge have I created a situation of hazard but have certainly sailed passed a turn off on the motorway I should have taken.


True, but at least you have 2 hands too try and control the car with. I think it also depends on the person. I've often had conversations where the other person has said they can tell I'm concentrating on driving. But I'm not saying I'm perfect. I too have missed a junction before now due to having a conversation over the Bluetooth.


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## clarkey1269 (Dec 27, 2010)

sorry but imho anyone caught using a phone at the wheel should be tasered in the face for every second that conversion was going on for


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

Multipla Mick said:


> Young/old/middle aged/male/female/hard to tell/BMW drivers/Volvo drivers/Saxo drivers with [email protected] caps and knackered shocks/CSMA badges and flat caps/4x4 school run mums/white vans/cyclists/weirdy beardies etc, not that I like to stereo type, I just hate 'em all  Treat 'em all as potential nitwits and you won't be disappointed :thumb: But I must say, old coffin dodgers crumpled in a pile of old bones and trembling withered fingers peering through the steering wheel of automatics really do worry me, and I give them as wide a berth as possible. Personally witnessed three examples of an old ruin losing control in an automatic over the years. Scary.


Old coffin dodgers:lol:
this happened last weekend to my neighbours van that was parked on the road outside his house, old lady in her 80's who lives next door to him, somehow managed to reverse into his van not once but twice!!, pushed it up on the kerb meaning the shunt was a total of around three feet!!
When she eventually got out she was a bit wobbly but after seeing that no -one was hurt, she got in her car and drove off!!
The breakdown van came the next day and when he tried to pull the car up on the flatbed , the two front wheels fell off!!, the sideways shunt had obviously shagged the suspension mounts and all the other bits with it.
I reckon it will be a write off..
My neighbour does not want to report her to the Police but i said he should have as that could have been worse if there had been kids around

Kev


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

spursfan said:


> My neighbour does not want to report her to the Police but i said he should have as that could have been worse if there had been kids around
> 
> Kev


Report her! What if there had been kids in the van? :wall:


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## LittleMissTracy (May 17, 2012)

Needs to be reported probably for a number of reasons. Kids in the area, other folk, herself.
Who is going to foot the bill. Plus she left the scene (or something along those lines) of an accident.
Report it before its too late.


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## Osarkon (Feb 20, 2011)

Was behind a corsa and a lorry last night, no room to overtake. Corsa was tailgating terribly and weaving. When it finally overtook it was doing about 50 in a 70 so I went to overtake both. Corsa driver put his foot down until he was doing at least 80. I dropped back after noticing he wasn't letting me past. 

He must have ended up doing near 90. When I'd looked over he was probably near that in age!


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

I agree with the mobile phone users, it really is not good. I had my drivers wing mirror nearly knocked off its hinges the other week in the van whilst sitting at some traffic lights, this silly cow decided she couldn't be bothered to wait to get to the filter arrow on the right turn so decided to squeeze between me n the on comming cars and in return smacking my wing mirror she didnt even stop all she did is wave to say sorry. i was well pissed off and in the end we ended up next to each other at the lights again anyway. I said thanks for that and all the reply i got was "well i said sorry" i was like "oh so thats alright then is it" haha and by the looked of her car been stoved in down one side it looks like this wasn't the first time and i got away lucky.

another thing that annoys me is people who drive at 40 mph in a 60. They think they are been all safe in there little bubble where all they are really doing is forcing people to overtake. I see a white van man get so pissed off from this the other day that he over took into an on coming car. Yes he was wrong but at the same time if the chap in front was doing the speed limit then maybe all would have been ok.


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## Teddy (Dec 15, 2007)

I was down a single track yesterday morning. Range Rover coming the other way. I stopped, weighed up the situation and decided the best action was to move onto the grass verge to let the BIG OFF ROADER past. 

Woman driver waving her hands about, I put the window down to ask what was wrong and she shouted there's a ditch down there and that I was an idiot. 
The grass was perfectly flat and the ditch was about 4 feet away! 

There's no pleasing some people. Make their life easier and they get abusive. Obviously thought they were important people in their big posh car. 

Another Range Rover down the road cut the corner too...why can't they buy cars they can handle???


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

Teddy said:


> I was down a single track yesterday morning. Range Rover coming the other way. I stopped, weighed up the situation and decided the best action was to move onto the grass verge to let the BIG OFF ROADER past.
> 
> Woman driver waving her hands about, I put the window down to ask what was wrong and she shouted there's a ditch down there and that I was an idiot.
> The grass was perfectly flat and the ditch was about 4 feet away!
> ...


Id be like f off..your in a big 4x4 thats designed to go off road, id have made her go onto the grass verge lol


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> another thing that annoys me is people who drive at 40 mph in a 60. They think they are been all safe in there little bubble where all they are really doing is forcing people to overtake. I see a white van man get so pissed off from this the other day that he over took into an on coming car. Yes he was wrong but at the same time if the chap in front was doing the speed limit then maybe all would have been ok.


I get this all the time out on the bike...

When we are out in a NSP zone, I will overtake a car as they are doing 40mph.... then, let's say we hit a small village.. I will drop down to 30mph...and the kn0b in the car will come right up my backside, still doing 40mph...

but they are "safer" than me... 

:wall:



Paintmaster1982 said:


> Id be like f off..your in a big 4x4 thats designed to go off road, id have made her go onto the grass verge lol


That's what £700 Grand Cherokee's are for, I don't move for the Chelsea tractor muppets! :lol: :devil::devil::devil:

and to help X5's when they fall off the road during the snowy times...  :wall:

:lol::lol::lol:

:thumb:


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## TubbyTwo (Apr 14, 2011)

Its the hornblowers and wanderers that annoy me, if you want to do 40 in a 60 go for it, but dont then try and match my speed as I over take....

If that fails theres always the "loser catchup" to ride my bumper as if Im supposed to fear their pathetic turn of speed thats taken them the last mile to catch up.

Had one the other night, started to overtake, the guy clearly didnt appreciate it and moved across to block, forcing me to drop back... blew is doors off out of the next corner tho.

Still felt the need to follow me for a mile with the horn going. If you want to womble along in your little predicably dull white A3 TDi at 40 in a NSL zone, expect to be overtaken.


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## Multipla Mick (Feb 5, 2006)

What gets me about these 40 mph open road dawdlers is how the hell they stay awake. The view through the windscreen barely moves, they aren't driving, they are doing the bear minimum to make the car go along. I'm no Lewis hamilton, but even I like to actually travel along a road rather than just meander. The answer I suppose is they are miles away, thinking about all sorts apart from what they're doing, but as old Cuey there points out, they are the 'safe' drivers, the 'good' drivers, sat there staring straight ahead oblivious to all around them. 

And another thing... How can people not feel or know when something doesn't feel right with their car? My sister, who has provided me with all sorts of dumbfounded WTF moments when she's at the wheel, told me on the phone the other day how she was driving across Bristol and her hubby sat in the passenger seat kept asking if the car was ok, as it didn't feel right to him. They got to Asda, he looked around and found the offside rear tyre almost flat. He could tell there was something amiss, but Dippy Deidre there actually driving the thing thought all was tickety boo. Dippy moo she is though, does my nut in she does


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I think a lot has to do with the stupid "speed kills" signs and mentality that has been forced down our gullets at every chance....

"speed" hasn't killed anyone, ever.... yet, it's all about a catchy slogan...

So as long as you don't "speed", you are a great, safe driver... and doesn't matter what you do...

But if you go 71mph, you are the devil... you are going to die and take a school bus full of primary kids with you....

This country and some people just make me f***g sick.... idiots... :wall::wall::wall::wall:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> I think a lot has to do with the stupid "speed kills" signs and mentality that has been forced down our gullets at every chance....
> 
> "speed" hasn't killed anyone, ever.... yet, it's all about a catchy slogan...
> 
> ...


You're not a little jaded still from getting caught eh cuey?


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> You're not a little jaded still from getting caught eh cuey?


:lol:

never caught me buddy, I'm too fast!

:devil:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> :lol:
> 
> never caught me buddy, I'm too fast!
> 
> :devil:


That's not what your scottish lawyer said


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> That's not what your scottish lawyer said


he shouldn't be telling you secrets in bed!


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## Multipla Mick (Feb 5, 2006)

The Cueball said:


> I think a lot has to do with the stupid "speed kills" signs and mentality that has been forced down our gullets at every chance....
> 
> "speed" hasn't killed anyone, ever.... yet, it's all about a catchy slogan...
> 
> ...


Oh I feel a rant about the 'what ifs' brigade coming on.... must resist... must resist... :lol:

No children might've been harmed in the making of this post.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Multipla Mick said:


> Oh I feel a rant about the 'what ifs' brigade coming on.... must resist... must resist... :lol:
> 
> No children might've been harmed in the making of this post.


but you've probably "offended" a few people.... oh the shame!!

However will they survive...


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> he shouldn't be telling you secrets in bed!


Oh you mean *that* secret?  Don't worry, that's safe with me


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Multipla Mick said:


> Oh I feel a rant about the 'what ifs' brigade coming on.... must resist... must resist... :lol:
> 
> No children might've been harmed in the making of this post.


Damn, maybe you harmed some bunnies or a soft fluffy polar bear?


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## Multipla Mick (Feb 5, 2006)

The Cueball said:


> but you've probably "offended" a few people.... oh the shame!!
> 
> However will they survive...


who cares! Oh no... Oh dear... I must issue an apology right away... Nah... as you were 



RisingPower said:


> Damn, maybe you harmed some bunnies or a soft fluffy polar bear?


Polar Bears make some mess of your grill I find so I avoid them, but bunnies are much more of a challenge, you have to swerve all over the road to get 'em... :lol:


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## BeeDubz (Mar 26, 2011)

Taxi drivers where I work, worst by far ! Idiots who think they own the road and have no respect for anyone else.


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## Multipla Mick (Feb 5, 2006)

Part of the trouble I reckon is, and I'm as guilty as any here, is we as a nation are too uptight, formal, and take things way too personally. Go abroad and see the chaotic driving that passes for normality and you soon see how worked up we get over nothing much. Italy seems an absolute free for all, not that I have driven there, just been an interested observer, same with Paris, anything goes, but the average Brit would burst several blood vessels within minutes over there (it's why I avoid big foreign towns ).
Like I say, I'm as guilty as anyone in the way things annoy me on the road, probably posted about such like in this thread already, but it is something that has struck me whenever I've seen how the Euro lot go about things, usually without all the stereotyped arm waving and horn honking as well.


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

Multipla Mick said:


> (it's why I avoid big foreign towns ).


Living where you live, that's not too difficult....

Try driving in Cambridge with all the stupid foreign cyclists.....


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Multipla Mick said:


> Part of the trouble I reckon is, and I'm as guilty as any here, is we as a nation are too uptight, formal, and take things way too personally. Go abroad and see the chaotic driving that passes for normality and you soon see how worked up we get over nothing much. Italy seems an absolute free for all, not that I have driven there, just been an interested observer, same with Paris, anything goes, but the average Brit would burst several blood vessels within minutes over there (it's why I avoid big foreign towns ).
> Like I say, I'm as guilty as anyone in the way things annoy me on the road, probably posted about such like in this thread already, but it is something that has struck me whenever I've seen how the Euro lot go about things, usually without all the stereotyped arm waving and horn honking as well.


I'm happy to say I get to drive in most of Europe quite a bit, and I agree...

The worst example of this for me, is at roadworks... the idiots in this country start queuing up with 2000,0000 miles to go and don't use the zip system, or allow anyone else to "get in"... it's so pathetic 

Most of the jams would be a lot less hassle if people let go of their egos and used the zip system the way it was meant...

i.e. use ALL of the available road RIGHT UP TO the closed lane, then MERGE IN TURN!!!!!!

not that hard, everyone moves quicker and gets on with their lives... British people just love to queue up though.... :wall::wall:

:lol:

:thumb:


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## Multipla Mick (Feb 5, 2006)

neilos said:


> Living where you live, that's not too difficult....
> 
> Try driving in Cambridge with all the stupid foreign cyclists.....


Bleddy Plymouth is bleddy foreign mate, thems all nutters up there :lol:

Can't remember the cyclists in Cambridge when I've been (many years ago, maybe they were on holidays or something) but Oxford must be pretty much the same. You get home and find bits of bike in your wheel arches, the complete works of some old academic knob stuck to your windscreen... And that's without even trying :lol:


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## PaulaJayne (Feb 17, 2012)

andy665 said:


> My current pet hate is people driving the wrong way down clearly marked one way routes around car parks - WHY. I simply drive down the middle and if something approaches me going in the wrong direction I simply sit and wait for them to move out of the way, normally to a torrent of abuse. I never get annoyed, I just sit there and smile, knowing that this only winds them up even more
> 
> It always seems to be those in the wrong who do all the ranting and raving


All the lines and arrows in a private car park have NO meaning in law.


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Multipla Mick said:


> old knob


What you had for tea is your business Michael.

Ive driven in Cambridge, once. I think my car nearly got damaged by retards on bikes about 8 times.
I can cope with people who dont use indicators as I cant squash them very easily. But when some bag of meat yoinks his bike in front of you without so much as a by your leave, It's a bit much.


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## Multipla Mick (Feb 5, 2006)

PugIain said:


> What you had for tea is your business Michael.
> 
> Ive driven in Cambridge, once. I think my car nearly got damaged by retards on bikes about 8 times.
> I can cope with people who dont use indicators as I cant squash them very easily. But when some bag of meat yoinks his bike in front of you without so much as a by your leave, It's a bit much.


Old knob is a Real Ale isn't it? Certainly sounds like one, sort of thing that comes in a straight glass with bits of Barley floating in it :lol:


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

I think Knob something is a whiskey?


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

PugIain said:


> I think Knob something is a whiskey?


knob creek is a bourbon

:thumb:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> knob creek is a bourbon
> 
> :thumb:


Stop teasing me with all this talk of knobs already


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> knob creek is a bourbon
> 
> :thumb:


Not to be confused with "**** Creek is a disaster"..:wave:


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Everyone is pointing the finger at each other here ??
We should and have to make at least some allowances for older or elderly drivers ? OK so its irritating sometimes if they are going a bit slow but is that really a big issue ? We will all get to that point eventually.......

I think also some forget they were young once ?

There will always be an element of all ages and classes of drivers that do seem not to care but its unfair to keep stereotyping all older drivers as slow and incompetent and all young ones as irresponsible...


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

PaulaJayne said:


> All the lines and arrows in a private car park have NO meaning in law.


Gated car parks yes

Noticed how most are now ungated eg supermarkets this means they come under the road traffic act....

You can recieve penalty points and or a driving ban in these areas.. know a lad who was doing doughnuts in a capri in our local Tescos one evening... now if It had gates it would have Been a civil matter however he ended up in court and got a 6 month ban iirc for dangetous driving....

Going by that can easily see a conviction for without due care been fetched against you for going against the road markings... suppose the markings would need to comply with the relevent regs regarding size shape and colour


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## PaulaJayne (Feb 17, 2012)

andy monty said:


> Gated car parks yes
> 
> Noticed how most are now ungated eg supermarkets this means they come under the road traffic act....
> 
> ...


Yes RTA is in force but the lines are just paint on the surface.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

I think you can get done even if its a gated car park, If you are putting people and yourself at risk then you are breaking the law....I think.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> I'm happy to say I get to drive in most of Europe quite a bit, and I agree...
> 
> The worst example of this for me, is at roadworks... the idiots in this country start queuing up with 2000,0000 miles to go and don't use the zip system, or allow anyone else to "get in"... it's so pathetic
> 
> ...


wow someone who makes sense....Only the other day i was coming upto the end of the motorway with about 3 miles to go untill i see signs for road works about 2 miles ahead. There was a chap in front of me and we where both driving in the second lane then all of a sudden we see "the queue" which was in the first lane and he decides to stop in the second lane behind the queue which is in the first lane about 2 miles before the actuall road works. I couldn't understand why people where queuing up that far back? This muppet in front of me just wouldn't move out of the way,after about 5 mins of politely waiting I flashed my lights, and sounded the horn and waved for him to pull in, but no he wasn't moving, only when the queue moved he moved. so there was an empty road in front of him. I ended up just squeezing past him as i couldn't be bothered with the agro of some muppet who doesn't like people legally getting in front of him ******. Anyway after 2 miles of over taking the divs sat in the queue i got to the road works, slowed down and indicated to slot in the queue and no one gave me any problems.

if people used there loaf then that queue would have been a quarter of what it was.


----------



## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Explain to me then, where this additional lane of traffic merges into the single lane of traffic, without causing it to slow down further as people don't merge in, but just force their way into already stationary traffic, which has been caused by people braking unnecessarily in the first part.


----------



## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> Explain to me then, where this additional lane of traffic merges into the single lane of traffic, without causing it to slow down further as people don't merge in, but just force their way into already stationary traffic, which has been caused by people braking unnecessarily in the first part.


the whole point of it is that the traffic isn't stationary...

is it honestly that hard to work out!?!?! :lol:

traffic in lanes 1 and 2 drive as normal up to the closure (lane 2)

cars in lane 1 already have a decent gap between them, cars from lane 2 merge in... go through the close then get back into lane 2

very simple, works very well..

go to Germany to see it working... and where it's law NOT to allow people to merge...

oh yeah, it's merge... not force in... you've displayed part of the issue right there... ego boy... :lol:



:thumb:


----------



## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> the whole point of it is that the traffic isn't stationary...
> 
> is it honestly that hard to work out!?!?! :lol:
> 
> ...


But the traffic will be stationary already in some cases, what happens then?

It only works if traffic isn't already stationary, or not very slow moving, in which case there isn't a queue in the first place.

Any time you're causing people to brake, you're causing a queue.

I rarely see people merge in turn, they all merge in all at once and to hell with the fact they've now increased the queue by grinding everything to a halt, at least they're at the front of the queue they just caused.


----------



## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

If people began to merge at the 800 yard marker i think the traffic flow would be much better then people who have been sensible and got "in" early would leave a better gap: rather than bunching up and all breaking to a stop to prevent the one who waits till he is clipping the cones to force his woay in


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## petemattw (Nov 3, 2008)

T.D.K said:


> Wow - I've seen it all today.
> 
> AUDI driver pulled out in the front of me causing me to almost do a emergency stop. He then continued at 35mph in 60mph zone. I resisted beeping my horn this time as in the past I've had people get extremely angry about this. Even though they are in the wrong.


How is doing 35 in a 60 being in the wrong? The speed limit is exactly what it says - an absolute upper limit, NOT a target, so driving below that speed is totally acceptable. It's about driving to the conditions and at a speed you feel safe at.

Perhaps the Audi driver being older and wiser was aware of dangers you couldn't see as you were too preoccupied with just wanting to drive faster??


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> But the traffic will be stationary already in some cases, what happens then?
> 
> It only works if traffic isn't already stationary, or not very slow moving, in which case there isn't a queue in the first place.
> 
> ...


:lol:

I can see this concept is a step too far for you to understand...

:wall::wall::wall:

never mind....


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> :lol:
> 
> I can see this concept is a step too far for you to understand...
> 
> ...


I need video of without and with


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> But the traffic will be stationary already in some cases, what happens then?
> 
> It only works if traffic isn't already stationary, or not very slow moving, in which case there isn't a queue in the first place.
> 
> ...


read my earlier post on this mate. I was stopped by a muppet in a car in lane 2, 2 miles from that merge point just because he didnt want people to over take and there was still a queue in lane one. So it isn't always the case that people who merge at the last min cause the back log. It also depends on the volume of traffic. The way i see it, it's not against the law to merge its designed to reduce 2 or more lanes to 1. People who get up tight about it and block people off who try to merge are just causing a bigger problem.

I also think its pointless to argue of something silly as a 20ft gap in a motor way thats hundreds of miles long lol does it really matter that a car has passed you and gained X amount of distance? its not a race.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

petemattw said:


> How is doing 35 in a 60 being in the wrong? The speed limit is exactly what it says - an absolute upper limit, NOT a target, so driving below that speed is totally acceptable. It's about driving to the conditions and at a speed you feel safe at.
> 
> Perhaps the Audi driver being older and wiser was aware of dangers you couldn't see as you were too preoccupied with just wanting to drive faster??


I think this may have more to do with the "old" boy not reading the road conditions and just pulling out regardless nearly causing an accident as well as may not knowing the speed limit for the road, or possibly he may be considered as unfit to drive? (bad eyesight) all assumptions of course


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> read my earlier post on this mate. I was stopped by a muppet in a car in lane 2, 2 miles from that merge point just because he didnt want people to over take and there was still a queue in lane one. So it isn't always the case that people who merge at the last min cause the back log. It also depends on the volume of traffic. The way i see it, it's not against the law to merge its designed to reduce 2 or more lanes to 1. People who get up tight about it and block people off who try to merge are just causing a bigger problem.
> 
> I also think its pointless to argue of something silly as a 20ft gap in a motor way thats hundreds of miles long lol does it really matter that a car has passed you and gained X amount of distance? its not a race.


If there was a queue in lane one and he wasn't merging into that queue and therefore causing it to slow down even further, what's the issue?

People who block other people trying to barge their way in, which would cause traffic to slow down even further are probably stopping the queue from further increasing, assuming they're not braking in the process.

The 20ft or any gap is a space for people to react in, the faster the traffic is moving, the greater a need for the gap. Remove the gap, you have traffic closer together, less reaction time and more braking, queue gets closer and closer until it's stationary. It's not about a car passing you, it's about increasing the queue further for everyone else.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> If there was a queue in lane one and he wasn't merging into that queue and therefore causing it to slow down even further, what's the issue?
> 
> People who block other people trying to barge their way in, which would cause traffic to slow down even further are probably stopping the queue from further increasing, assuming they're not braking in the process.
> 
> The 20ft or any gap is a space for people to react in, the faster the traffic is moving, the greater a need for the gap. Remove the gap, you have traffic closer together, less reaction time and more braking, queue gets closer and closer until it's stationary. It's not about a car passing you, it's about increasing the queue further for everyone else.


the issue is that he had 2 miles worth of road ahead of him with no cars on it therfore backing lane 1 up even further and lane 2 up back from his car. I can understand it if he was about 200 meters away but 2 miles!!!

in my case iam on about stationary cars not moving or are at a very slow mph This guy stopped in lane 2 at the end of lane 1's queue and when lane 1 mover a bit he moved a bit so really you could have had 2 miles worth of cars in lane 2 which would have halfed the queue in the first place. Then if people used there loaf and didn't get so uptight about people merging and actually let people in then everything would be all dandy.

Id be worried of anyone giving 20ft worth of space above crawling pace as thats a bit to close for comfort.

It all comes down to the volum of traffic. if you have x amount of cars in 2 lanes then within 2 miles they go into 1 lane your going to have a bottle neck. if the queue is stationary and people get miffed off about people merging leggally then more fool them. There is nothing stopping them from merging they just choose to sit for hours in traffic lol

I don't see how difficult this issue is. Maybe this is why we have problems in these situations lol


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## gregb (Feb 1, 2009)

Merging is definitely the way to go but most people in lane 1 see it as pushing in rather than being common sense. I have this every night on way home from work on the A90. I nearly always merge and find the best way to do it is to merge in front of a car that's just merged before you as there generally more receptive to the manoeuvre :thumb:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> the issue is that he had 2 miles worth of road ahead of him with no cars on it therfore backing lane 1 up even further and lane 2 up back from his car. I can understand it if he was about 200 meters away but 2 miles!!!
> 
> in my case iam on about stationary cars not moving or are at a very slow mph This guy stopped in lane 2 at the end of lane 1's queue and when lane 1 mover a bit he moved a bit so really you could have had 2 miles worth of cars in lane 2 which would have halfed the queue in the first place. Then if people used there loaf and didn't get so uptight about people merging and actually let people in then everything would be all dandy.
> 
> ...


So what if he had 10000 miles in front of him, what difference is that space going to make to queue 1 at the point it merges, or not?

If they're stationary, you're still causing delays by merging in as someone sees you, brakes to let you in, etc etc. The traffic doesn't simply disappear because it goes into another lane, there's still a pinch point as it merges back into the only flowing lane.

The traffic which was caused in the first place, by people merging/barging in and therefore causing people to brake.

If people keep a sensible distance, stop braking just because they lack the ability not to knee jerk brake, there would be far less queuing.

Zip merging works under the rare possibility that traffic is moving at a speed with such pace that it doesn't cause anyone to brake, in which case there's probably too much space in the first place. Otherwise, it causes jams in the first place if you don't give way to traffic in the lane you're merging into.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

^^^^ you really don't get it do you!?!?!?

:lol:

the thing you seem to be failing to grasp is that there is NO stationery traffic if people use the system....so stop going on and on and on and on and ariston about it.... jeez oh...  :wall:



:thumb:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> ^^^^ you really don't get it do you!?!?!?
> 
> :lol:
> 
> ...


That works, if there's nothing in front of the merge point  But generally since the cause of pinch points is roadworks in front of them, it doesn't help.

Assuming the drivers aren't muppets and can gauge whether to brake or not


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I give up... honestly... it's very simple... well, I used to think so... obviously not for some people!!!!


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> So what if he had 10000 miles in front of him, what difference is that space going to make to queue 1 at the point it merges, or not?
> 
> If they're stationary, you're still causing delays by merging in as someone sees you, brakes to let you in, etc etc. The traffic doesn't simply disappear because it goes into another lane, there's still a pinch point as it merges back into the only flowing lane.
> 
> ...


how can people brake if they are already stopped?

it makes a huge difference to me as i dont want to be sat in a single file queue for 10000 miles thanks very much :thumb: but if you want to then be my guest 

It's not going to stop queue 1 at all but in theory it could have halfed it if people had the brains to use both lanes. I really don't see the point in stopping people from merging. It's not illegal! some people barge i agree but i indicate and people let me in. people who creep in and nudge there way in tend to get people annoyed and in the end block people which again causes the problem even further.

i dont see there is much ability needed in pressing your brake peddle to stop you crashing into a stationary car lol. i dont see your point iam sorry.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> how can people brake if they are already stopped?
> 
> it makes a huge difference to me as i dont want to be sat in a single file queue for 10000 miles thanks very much :thumb: but if you want to then be my guest
> 
> ...


How can you merge into a car?

If that queue in lane 1 is moving freely, vs queue 2 merging in without allowing enough gap therefore causing it to queue further, what happens to queue 1? That's the point here, it's I don't want to queue, therefore it's ok to increase queues for everyone else.

It will stop queue 1 as traffic gets closer and closer together until they have to brake more and more. Arguing it's not illegal seems an odd point, doing 50 down a road which is unsuitable isn't a good idea. Indicating is also only part of it, it's giving way, not just saying i'm going this way.

A lot of people cause jams when they see brake lights and without thinking press the brakes. What happens? People increasingly brake as it gets further, until it's a dead stop.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> I give up... honestly... it's very simple... well, I used to think so... obviously not for some people!!!!


Show me it working cuey  You promised me a trip to the sausageland 

I'd also hazard a guess they are better at judging distances and driving


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

But your trying to shoe horn 2 cars into space and carigeway capacity for 1 as such the inside lane has to at a minimum half its speed to accommodate those moving in when the carrigeway is a full capacity.......

People in lane #1 leave a safe stopping distance which car from lane 2 fills forcing the driver below to slow or brake to get a safe distance again by them braking cars behind slow again to gain a safe distance again and it ripples right down the line 

Wheres some computer road planning simulator geek when you need one


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

andy monty said:


> But your trying to shoe horn 2 cars into space and carigeway capacity for 1 as such the inside lane has to at a minimum half its speed to accommodate those moving in when the carrigeway is a full capacity.......
> 
> People in lane #1 leave a safe stopping distance which car from lane 2 fills forcing the driver below to slow or brake to get a safe distance again by them braking cars behind slow again to gain a safe distance again and it ripples right down the line
> 
> Wheres some computer road planning simulator geek when you need one


Woohoo, someone gets the idea of limited capacity! :lol:


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> How can you merge into a car?
> 
> If that queue in lane 1 is moving freely, vs queue 2 merging in without allowing enough gap therefore causing it to queue further, what happens to queue 1? That's the point here, it's I don't want to queue, therefore it's ok to increase queues for everyone else.
> 
> ...


like i said in prev posts, iam on about stationary cars in my case everything in lane 1 was stopped for 2 miles and there was 2 miles of lane two with not one car on it due to this prick been to dim to let everyone past, unless your lucky and your at the front of before a queue develops. i see what your saying but at the same time if people let people merge stationary or not then there isn't a problem.

I cant see your arguement as people need to merge no matter what, your always going to have a reduced braking distance when your redusing lanes and in a prefect world then that would work but at the same time this isn't a perfect world and i hate driving, hence why i dont want to be a mug sat in a 2 mile queue wondering what iam going to have for tea. lol

i think your a bit paranoid about people merging. At the end of the day stationary or moving people need to merge otherwise we would all travel single file.

although iam scanning ahead at the x amount of cars etc in fronts reactions , i think of my own car and what my car is doing, if the car in front brakes, i just back off the throttle (if i need to) untill i have to tap the brakes and 9 times out of 10 i dont have to brake. hence why i give plenty of distance. saves on fuel and makes me a better driver 

again on here i think this is another case of agree to dissagree lol :thumb::wave:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Java no worky on ipad but the text remains the same.

http://www.vwi.tu-dresden.de/~treiber/MicroApplet/Bottlenecks.html


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> like i said in prev posts, iam on about stationary cars in my case everything in lane 1 was stopped for 2 miles and there was 2 miles of lane two with not one car on it due to this prick been to dim to let everyone past, unless your lucky and your at the front of before a queue develops. i see what your saying but at the same time if people let people merge stationary or not then there isn't a problem.
> 
> i think your a bit paranoid about people merging. At the end of the day stationary or moving people need to merge otherwise we would all travel single file.
> 
> ...


If people brake when someone is merging it is quite simple, they brake, the person behind them brakes some more etc etc.

At some point yes, but where it's unnecessary and causes further jams, why?

You should be aware of everything on the road.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> If people brake when someone is merging it is quite simple, they brake, the person behind them brakes some more etc etc.
> 
> At some point yes, but where it's unnecessary and causes further jams, why?
> 
> You should be aware of everything on the road.


:wall::wall::wall: :lol::lol::lol:but how the feck else are you going to do it??????

your cramming 3 lanes for example into 1 lol are you saying that without braking you can do that??

I can sort of understand what your saying, but are you serious about people not having to reduce there speed/ distance what ever when your people HAVE to merge. If the signs for the road works or what ever was 50 miles away then yes that would work.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> :wall::wall::wall: :lol::lol::lol:but how the feck else are you going to do it??????


Hopefully traffic should merge at the point well before the choke point if they need to, where it's far less likely that braking is going to lead to a chain reaction as there's very little difference in speed, or if there is a queue up to the point its a single lane originally, don't use the other lane and keep suitable distances.

If traffic is merging right before the choke point, too many people give way and the traffic in lane 1 stops. It's all about the difference in speed and attitude which really increases queues in the first place.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> You should be aware of everything on the road.


your obviously to busy concentrating on people trying to merge to make things smooth than whats going on around you


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

:wall:


RisingPower said:


> Hopefully traffic should merge at the point well before the choke point if they need to, where it's far less likely that braking is going to lead to a chain reaction as there's very little difference in speed, or if there is a queue up to the point its a single lane originally, don't use the other lane and keep suitable distances.
> 
> If traffic is merging right before the choke point, too many people give way and the traffic in lane 1 stops. It's all about the difference in speed and attitude which really increases queues in the first place.


:wall: again iam done with this :lol::lol::lol:....agree to dissagree :thumb::wave:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> your obviously to busy concentrating on people trying to merge to make things smooth than whats going on around you


Nope, i'm aware of what they're doing, what's in front of me and my surroundings.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> Nope, i'm aware of what they're doing, what's in front of me and my surroundings.


good for you :thumb:


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

More people texting whilst driving today ... :doublesho Are people really THAT stupid! :wall:

I'd flog the bastids! :thumb:


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Bristle Hound said:


> More people texting whilst driving today ... :doublesho Are people really THAT stupid! :wall:
> 
> I'd flog the bastids! :thumb:


Penalty ought to be policeman takes phone from offender.. policemen gets lump hammer from patrol car... then smash phone to pulp after first snapping sim card.. nation register of destroyed phones so they can't claim a replacement off insurance.... SORTED


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

andy monty said:


> Penalty ought to be policeman takes phone from offender.. policemen gets lump hammer from patrol car... then smash phone to pulp after first snapping sim card.. nation register of destroyed phones so they can't claim a replacement off insurance.... SORTED


Oh great idea mate! :devil:


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

The loss of phone + all their numbers + photos would be a bigger deterrent to most than £60 and 3 points


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

A woman driving a Merc down the centre line of a dual carriageway today, as it was p!ssing down with rain!! :wall: :wall:


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

I was about to wade into the whole 'merging' arguement but I though nah :thumb:

I had another BMW up my **** today, doing 65 in a 60 zone (speedo inaccuracy means I probably was doing 60) 

I beeped my horn and gave a good long stare in the rear mirror. Seemed to work, he backed off and was a good boy until I turned off.


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

robsri said:


> Do you honestly think, none of this is to do with your driving/attitude? :car:


I can't see how, I was doing the NSL, my car is insured and taxed, I have every right to be on the road.

Some people just can't grasp the fact that there might be someone else using the same road as them.


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

T.D.K said:


> I can't see how, I was doing the NSL, my car is insured and taxed, I have every right to be on the road.
> 
> Some people just can't grasp the fact that there might be someone else using the same road as them.


Probably because you beeped your horn and gave him a good stare.

Seriously, just let it slide, don't stoop to their level. If someone is tailgating, either pull over if its safe and let the numpty pass for some one else to deal with, or, slow down to increase the gap between you and the car in front.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

neilos said:


> Probably because you beeped your Ron and gave hima good stare.
> 
> Seriously, just let it slide, don't stoop to their level. If someone is tailgating, either pull over if its safe and let the numpty pass for some one else to deal with, or, slow down to increase the gap between you and the car in front.


i just click on my anti dazzle on my rear view mirror and concentrate on what iam doing rather than stare at the *** tailgating me


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

neilos said:


> Probably because you beeped your Ron and gave hima good stare.
> 
> Seriously, just let it slide, don't stoop to their level. If someone is tailgating, either pull over if its safe and let the numpty pass for some one else to deal with, or, slow down to increase the gap between you and the car in front.


He had plenty of opportunities to overtake but didn't, instead he decided to hug the rear bumper and was moving his car so he was visible in my right wing mirror - completely unacceptable.

Nowhere to pull in on many of the roads by me.


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

T.D.K said:


> He had plenty of opportunities to overtake but didn't, instead he decided to hug the rear bumper and was moving his car so he was visible in my right wing mirror - completely unacceptable.
> 
> Nowhere to pull in on many of the roads by me.


Him moving his car so he was visible in your right mirror was probably due to either him planning an overtake, thus he was getting a better view, or simply to get a better view anyway.


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

neilos said:


> Him moving his car so he was visible in your right mirror was probably due to either him planning an overtake, thus he was getting a better view, or simply to get a better view anyway.


No, he was making a point ie: get off the road as I am more important.

He could have overtaken countless times and didn't, instead decided to intimidate me, hence why I beeped my horn.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

T.D.K said:


> No, he was making a point ie: get off the road as I am more important.
> 
> He could have overtaken countless times and didn't, instead decided to intimidate me, hence why I beeped my horn.


Actually, you should be positioning yourself for overtaking. If he's to the right of the line he's trying to overtake, but no doubt not in a position to do so.

If he was making a point he'd be very close.

Also, a good long stare in the mirror is a stupid thing to be doing. Why not just ease off?

Incidentally it's also a stupid use of the horn.


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

RisingPower said:


> Actually, you should be positioning yourself for overtaking. If he's to the right of the line he's trying to overtake, but no doubt not in a position to do so.
> 
> If he was making a point he'd be very close.
> 
> ...


With all due respect he was far too close and as I said, the road was wide open for him to overtake on many occasions. He didn't, he was making a point so I beeped him to try and get him to back off which he did and that was that.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

T.D.K said:


> With all due respect he was far too close and as I said, the road was wide open for him to overtake on many occasions. He didn't, he was making a point so I beeped him to try and get him to back off which he did and that was that.


Which is the wrong use of the horn right?

If he doesn't like the speed you're doing and there's nowhere to pull over, slow down.


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

RisingPower said:


> Which is the wrong use of the horn right?
> 
> If he doesn't like the speed you're doing and there's nowhere to pull over, slow down.


Surely it's more dangerous for me to slow down while he's almost touching my rear bumper?

I do realise the horn was incorrectly used.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

T.D.K said:


> Surely it's more dangerous for me to slow down while he's almost touching my rear bumper?
> 
> I do realise the horn was incorrectly used.


Not insurance wise no, if he goes into you whilst you're slowing down it's not your fault. Surely you'll have to slow down at one point, what happens then?

Also, makes it easier to overtake for them.


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

RisingPower said:


> Not insurance wise no, if he goes into you whilst you're slowing down it's not your fault. Surely you'll have to slow down at one point, what happens then?
> 
> Also, makes it easier to overtake for them.


I don't know, pray to God? I'll get a fish sticker, that'll protect me :thumb:

Like I said though, he has plenty of opportunities to overtake, plenty of room and visability. Unfortunately some people just like to be intimidate or CBA to overtake.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

T.D.K said:


> With all due respect he was far too close and as I said, the road was wide open for him to overtake on many occasions. He didn't, he was making a point so I beeped him to try and get him to back off which he did and that was that.


maybe he was just drafting you to save fuel!!! 

:lol:

I haven't had anyone tailgate me in a NSL area for years... I mostly find it done in 30 zones these days... and as I said before, by mothers....

having the good fortune to be able to drive 3 very different cars, I also find that my choice of car usually dictates how many times it happens and how close they get.....

:thumb:


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> I haven't had anyone tailgate me in a NSL area for years... I mostly find it done in 30 zones these days... and as I said before, by mothers....


Its usually the ones you overtook doing 45 in the NSL who seem to have cars that can only do one speed.....


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## TubbyTwo (Apr 14, 2011)

andy monty said:


> Its usually the ones you overtook doing 45 in the NSL who seem to have cars that can only do one speed.....


Agreed, in my experience its usually some worn out Astra in "single mother blue"


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