# SPL Season 11/12



## Spoony

Ok guys, following on from what I would say the success of the thread "missing: 1 rangers team" I thought this year we could have an SPL thread. This will be for all chat SPL, about teams, games, transfer rumours and the likes.

Keeps it all in one place and seeing as the old one hit 2k posts it was a good time to start afresh.

Starting with a link from Dennis... Gers bid for Wallace: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13875645.stm


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## Mick

Guys, just to really echo what Stuart has said, this is more or less a carry on from his successful rangers thread, but this time we can hopefully make it a place where SPL as a whole can be discussed (sensibly).

I know I dont need to tell you guys that bigotry etc is just not going to fly on here, theres no reason why opposing teams in a game cant discuss it like grown ups without religion coming into it :thumb:

Also, no singing god save the queen, apparently it carries a jail sentence now :lol:

As you were . . .


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## CraigQQ

god save......... err.. best leave that one. :lol:

im not a massive fan of scottish football anymore tbh... was raised a rangers fan though, all my family are rangers fans.. 
these days if i was to back a team it would likely be hearts seeing as they are edinburgh, and i hate hibs after my ex gf... :lol:

ill kick off the discussion..

do the Gers fans feel ally has what it takes to lead you to victory..

being raised a gers fan, he was a big star in them days, probably the best rangers team in the last 20 years, with albertz, laudrup, weir(imo hes pushing it now, still playing.. think hes done tbh), ect and smith at the helm.


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## gally

Good thread guys. Maybe i'll be allowed to post in here... :lol: I'll ask Graham later.

Looking forward to the banter the ensues this season should be fun!


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## Shug

Gers bid for wallace = joke.
Hearts aren't desperate for cash like they were in the old days under chris robinson.


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## Bratwurst

I thought Hearts were as skint as a Rabii's plonker, and had been for some time?...

Or it maybe the whole debt thing in Romanov's name or something?...



As for Ally as gaffer... not sure any person can turn up and be a success depending on previous, or lack of. PLG came with a top rep and flopped... People were un-sure of Sir Walter to start with...


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## Spoony

What worries me is the lack of transfer signings. Pre season starts soon and there's little chat of new faces. Add to that we've got a couple of wantaways by the looks of it in boughy and Whittaker


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## Shug

wee_green_mini said:


> I thought Hearts were as skint as a Rabii's plonker, and had been for some time?...


Hearts turned a profit last year amazingly. Debt is being converted to equity. Still ridiculously high but the ditching of all the high earners is improving things. Still able to outspend all bar the old firm tho.


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## Grizzle

gally said:


> Good thread guys. Maybe i'll be allowed to post in here... :lol: I'll ask Graham later.
> 
> Looking forward to the banter the ensues this season should be fun!


Get oot!!! :lol:


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## gally

Consider me gone... 


:lol:


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## David

any rangers fan happy keith lemon should be back at celtic next year

plenty more of this to come:


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## Grizzle

I hope not as it takes the good bits of him as an actual manager, shame really but i really doubt he will change.


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## Shug

In order to provide more security at the next hearts celtic game at tynecastle, hearts are introducing bigger seperation areas, and moving sections about.
By cutting celtics allocation :lol:


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## allan1888

Shug said:


> In order to provide more security at the next hearts celtic game at tynecastle, hearts are introducing bigger seperation areas, and moving sections about.
> By cutting celtics allocation :lol:


Yeah I seen that a while ago but I would have just closed the sections around the dugouts at tynecastle, Or played it behind closed doors.


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## stevie_m

Looks like Whyte is trying to run the club to the same wage structure as Lloyds Banking Group wanted.

Also find it strange that we didn't offer a contract to Conway as I thought he was a prime target. 

Also looks like they are trying to squeeze every last dime out of their transfer budget which I believe is around the 7million mark (£2 million going to fix the tannoy system, upgrade the canteen areas and small general works. £3 million going to contracts for Whittaker, Davis, Weir and McGregor) another player that I came across is Ján Ďurica, Filip Sebo gave the scoop weeks ago on his twitter page. 

Still wouldn't be surprised if they punted McGregor, Davis and Whittaker and use the excuse that they didn't agree terms for contract renewals.

Now here comes to the meat of the post... Do I think McCoist will hack it as a manager ? I really do hope he does but I have a bad feeling about this, I honestly felt Durrant will be a better manager in time than Coisty. But I will be looking closely to his formations on the pre season tours as I feel this will prob be his main formations for the year coming.


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## Bratwurst

Danns now gone to Leicester too, and Averageknob talking to a few clubs...

Maybe most have been paper talk, maybe not, there's no smoke without fire etc... but not totally confidence inspiring when all the confirmed news we (gers fans) see is Weir being asked to play another year...


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## david g

Are we starting to panic in terms of no new signings so far ,I am and also the lack of contract talks with several key players ?


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## Spoony

david g said:


> Are we starting to panic in terms of no new signings so far ,I am and also the lack of contract talks with several key players ?


If there aren't any signings of note by Friday I'll be worried.

I'm worried that Danns is the calibre that is being considered.

Not much movement by the other half of glasgow either.


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## stevie_m

I don't think Celtic will be buying unless they sell ... (Kayal & Izzy) with no Champions League money coming in they will balance the books again like they did last year selling McGeady.

Goodwillie looks like he is heading to Cardiff (this was supposed to be Ally's prime target) surely they knew what Dundee Utd's asking price is which is believed to be about £2mill (heard we might go as far as 1.7m with Fleck loaned to them)

I'd like to see Bartley, Weiss, *Sebo*, Barton (feel we need some bite in midfield)

I know people will laugh but honestly the big man had a blinder of a season last year.


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## Dougster

Salim Kerkar signed a new 1 year contract today.


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## Clark @ PB

There's plenty time yet, I can't believe all this panic talk going on. Rangers have a history of pulling off signings at the last minute. I'd rather they went for the right ones and not just any old player for the sake of it, that's where our financial troubles weren't helped in the past and I'm glad to see we're not being held to ransom.


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## Bratwurst

Allegedly Blackburn are about to go for Edu.


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## gally

Are they mental? Got the wrong person maybe?


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## Bratwurst

Transfer fee... two bob and a pickled egg.


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## gally

:lol: Ah mad Maurice!


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## Bratwurst

To be fair to him, yes he had a fairly **** mid-season, but in the run-in he got better and turned in a some important and impressive displays. On the whole though, not worth the 2m or so we paid for him. Well, not that we've seen anyway. He has the skills on occasion, but that's just it, it's on occasion.


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## Grizzle

He's been covering for Davie Weir all season though which i see he has signed for another year! if he wasn't having to cover other people he would show how good he really is.


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## david g

Grizzle said:


> He's been covering for Davie Weir all season though which i see he has signed for another year! if he wasn't having to cover other people he would show how good he really is.


Couldnt agree more ,Edu has had to cover for Weir who has no pace ,get a decent ball playing center half in there and Edu will be able to push further forward in his natural position :thumb:


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## Bratwurst

That's me told :lol:


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## Bratwurst

Healy - new deal...


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## gally

Did he play last year?


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## Bratwurst

I dont _think_ he got a full game anyway, but yeah he did play and scored too.


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## David

Craig thomson says 2 his manager! when is it ok to have sex with girls? Jim says.... Once they have Left school! thomson says "brilliant! cant wait until 4 oclock"


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## stevie_m

Think Edu could come onto a good season next year, I felt last years World Cup and the amount of games either took it's toll or it's problems with the gutter rat WAG that always gave him abuse (seemed that way anytime I seen him at Alea)


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## Clark @ PB

Whitts and Shagger have signed new 5 and 6 year deals, get in! 

"he dives to the left, he dives to the riiiiiiight!"


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## gally

He muff dives every night! 

Both great "signings" tbf. Good to get them tied up. Whit's is a cracking player and much needed. As is Mcshagger!


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## David

im Glad to see shagger staying on, although whittaker im not sure -clearly he wanted away - he better score some more solo efforts as im sure he'll be on a nice pay package now


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## Clark @ PB

I dont think he did want away, he just wanted a longer deal than was first offered.


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## Clark @ PB

Steve Davis offered a 5 year deal too apparantly...


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## Grizzle

Clark @ PB said:


> Steve Davis offered a 5 year deal too apparantly...


yeh and apparently is going to take it

:thumb:


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## Bratwurst

Spanish right-winger at Murray Park for talks. Fee agreed.


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## Bratwurst

Gers to loan 2 from Spurs


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## Spoony

Looks interesting but can't comment on any of them


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## Bratwurst

Ortiz passes medical at Rangers, and signs for 3 years


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## Bratwurst

Blackpool agree fee to sell Charlie Adam

Does that mean the Gers are in for a wee cut of this 8 or 9m?


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## Grizzle

wee_green_mini said:


> Blackpool agree fee to sell Charlie Adam
> 
> Does that mean the Gers are in for a wee cut of this 8 or 9m?


I hope so and i really hope Charlie Adam genuinely does well at Liverpool :thumb:


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## Bratwurst

Same here Mr G, he got a hard time at Ibrox (played out of position) and was never really given a fair pop at playing in the centre. It's obvious now he can do it...
Good on the lad.


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## Grizzle

How funny it was an Ex Celt coach who wanted him to leave lol well done Dioufy!

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sco...g-El-Hadji-booted-out-for-flashing-medal.html


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## gally

He no longer plays for you guys, now you can admit the guy is a clownshoe.


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## Dave3066

Aberdeen, St Johnstone, Dunfermline, Dundee Utd, Inverness CT, Motherwell, St Mirren and Kilmarnock.....

Just a reminder of the other 8 teams in the SPL who so far in 5 pages haven't been mentioned. 

Alas I fear this may be one of the few posts to feature these teams.

From a Div 1 interloper......

Dave


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## Pink_Floyd

I find it funny that Craig Brown can have a touchline bust-up / spat etc and it gets laughed off by the media and SFA, but if it involves the Old Firm all hell breaks lose and Lennon gets the punishment. 

I'm a Celtic supporter and hold a season ticket, but I do feel Lenny does himself no favours at times. Although as Pat Nevin pointed out, he has done nothing any other manager hasn't done, yet he has been made a scapegoat. 

As for Ranger's signings.......... :lol:How many players, including those on Bosmans have knocked them back now? Speaks volumes. 

Celtic won't be selling Kayal or Izzy unless silly stupid offers come in. We've got no real need to 'balance the books' as we don't have silly amounts of debt, and the HMRC have nothing to find at Parkhead  Oh how we can laugh at that infamous statement regarding fivers and tenners and where it has left the 'Teddy Bears' :lol:


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## Bratwurst

Maybe just a reflection of the fan-base : DW members ratio...


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## Grizzle

Pink_Floyd said:


> I find it funny that Craig Brown can have a touchline bust-up / spat etc and it gets laughed off by the media and SFA, but if it involves the Old Firm all hell breaks lose and Lennon gets the punishment.
> 
> I'm a Celtic supporter and hold a season ticket, but I do feel Lenny does himself no favours at times. Although as Pat Nevin pointed out, he has done nothing any other manager hasn't done, yet he has been made a scapegoat.
> 
> As for Ranger's signings.......... :lol:How many players, including those on Bosmans have knocked them back now? Speaks volumes.
> 
> Celtic won't be selling Kayal or Izzy unless silly stupid offers come in. We've got no real need to 'balance the books' as we don't have silly amounts of debt, and the HMRC have nothing to find at Parkhead  *Oh how we can laugh at that infamous statement regarding fivers and tenners and where it has left the 'Teddy Bears' :lol:*


it has left us better than you's another few trophy's for the cabinet for a club that "has no money" we didnt do to badly, Celtic on other hand were trully awful.

We Welcome The Chase


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## Bratwurst

Pink_Floyd said:


> I find it funny that Craig Brown can have a touchline bust-up / spat etc and it gets laughed off by the media and SFA, but if it involves the Old Firm all hell breaks lose and Lennon gets the punishment.
> 
> I'm a Celtic supporter and hold a season ticket, but I do feel Lenny does himself no favours at times. Although as Pat Nevin pointed out, he has done nothing any other manager hasn't done, yet he has been made a scapegoat.
> 
> As for Ranger's signings.......... :lol:How many players, including those on Bosmans have knocked them back now? Speaks volumes.
> 
> Celtic won't be selling Kayal or Izzy unless silly stupid offers come in. We've got no real need to 'balance the books' as we don't have silly amounts of debt, and the HMRC have nothing to find at Parkhead  Oh how we can laugh at that infamous statement regarding fivers and tenners and where it has left the 'Teddy Bears' :lol:


You're not as well off as you think you are, and consistently failing to win the league or do anything in Europe isn't helping matters.
Is it not the case that Celtic are spending a lot more than they're bringing in at the moment? All very reminiscent the fiver/tenner thing  I remember seeing a debt comparison recently, can't remember where, but we're now on an even keel, the Tic aren't so...

Spending guarantees you nothing, winning does, just look at the The Gers in recent years.


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## gally

Pink_Floyd said:


> I find it funny that Craig Brown can have a touchline bust-up / spat etc and it gets laughed off by the media and SFA, but if it involves the Old Firm all hell breaks lose and Lennon gets the punishment.
> 
> I'm a Celtic supporter and hold a season ticket, but I do feel Lenny does himself no favours at times. Although as Pat Nevin pointed out, he has done nothing any other manager hasn't done, yet he has been made a scapegoat.
> 
> As for Ranger's signings.......... :lol:How many players, including those on Bosmans have knocked them back now? Speaks volumes.
> 
> Celtic won't be selling Kayal or Izzy unless silly stupid offers come in. We've got no real need to 'balance the books' as we don't have silly amounts of debt, and the HMRC have nothing to find at Parkhead  Oh how we can laugh at that infamous statement regarding fivers and tenners and where it has left the 'Teddy Bears' :lol:


Ah that's it started then!


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## Grizzle

gally said:


> Ah that's it started then!


yeh seems so 

We should ban all Celtic fans from here and only allow Gally in lmao :lol:


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## gally

Haha! It's meant to be a new season thread not drag up the old one.

Lets move on. It's about the here and now until later in the season anyway then we can start quoting 67' and you can quote how many titles you have won! :lol:


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## Bratwurst

The here and now?... 

We're on our way back home on the airyplane, with 3 defeats and no goals scored  :lol:


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## gally

PMSL! Well after the pre season then! :lol:


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## Pink_Floyd

wee_green_mini said:


> You're not as well off as you think you are, and consistently failing to win the league or do anything in Europe isn't helping matters.
> *Is it not the case that Celtic are spending a lot more than they're bringing in at the moment? *All very reminiscent the fiver/tenner thing  I remember seeing a debt comparison recently, can't remember where, but we're now on an even keel, the Tic aren't so...
> 
> Spending guarantees you nothing, winning does, just look at the The Gers in recent years.


I sincerely doubt that, any links to figures, or even a semi-solid source? Peter Lawell seems to be steering the ship pretty well and I doubt our debt would be anything like Rangers, or even approaching a figure worth worrying about.



wee_green_mini said:


> The here and now?...
> 
> We're on our way back home on the airyplane, with 3 defeats and no goals scored  :lol:


Oh dear


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## Bratwurst

Did Lawwell not pump (see loan) about 10m into the club in the last 6 months or so? Maybe not Lawwell, Desmond, somebody.. I can't remember all the Tic crowd's names.  Plus celtic are already servicing a debt approaching 10m.
The same servicing of debt that had to make Rangers cut their cloth drastically.
I know you got 10m in for McGreedy, but no prize money or big tv revenue to speak of for a few years is what's going to hurt the most. All I'm saying is that you can't keep spending and not bringing in, this nearly put the Gers out of business and trusting Lennon to keep on spending while he doesn't win is a dangerous game.


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## Pink_Floyd

wee_green_mini said:


> Did Lawwell not pump (see loan) about 10m into the club in the last 6 months or so? Maybe not Lawwell, Desmond, somebody.. I can't remember all the Tic crowd's names.  Plus celtic are already servicing a debt approaching 10m.
> The same servicing of debt that had to make Rangers cut their cloth drastically.
> I know you got 10m in for McGreedy, but no prize money or big tv revenue to speak of for a few years is what's going to hurt the most. All I'm saying is that you can't keep spending and not bringing in, this nearly put the Gers out of business and trusting Lennon to keep on spending while he doesn't win is a dangerous game.


Total debt stands at 9.1m as of Feb 2011. As far as I know there was no cash injection by anyone as to do so would basically be in the form of a share option, or the acquisition of shares to stay within financial regulations. That said I'm no expert. The sale of McGeady meant a rise in pre-tax profit to 7.1m. We supposedly spent 9m on players and who only knows what it cost us to pay off big nose.............. :devil:

I hear what you're saying regarding spending but not winning. The thing is Lennon inherited a team from Mowbray that was full of duds looking to pick up fat pay packets on loan deals in the main. He took Rangers to the wire losing by just 1 point to the experienced Walter Smith. He is one of the finest managers Scotland has ever produced, Lennon is a rookie, not bad going.

Ultimately he had to spend to re-shape the team and I doubt they'll be a major re-shuffle this summer with massive spending. Rather we'll bring in a keeper, C.B and striker to an already settled team. Lennon won't be allowed to just continue spending as he sees fit. As far as I know from what has been discussed at supporters meet and greets is that he gives names to Lawell and he looks at the financial viability.

Rangers main advantage last season possibly over all others was their starting 11. Whilst they had no depth to the squad, they did have a starting 11 who were solid and had played together for some time, a known quantity.

This season should be interesting with two young managers, both of whom played for their respective teams. It should make for fiery passionate football :thumb:


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## Bratwurst

Totally with you there Pink Floyd, this year will be a cracker I reckon, as long as the passion is displayed the right way and it's all about football only this time round.

A bit surprised about Craig Gordon... for one I thought being presented with the chance that the Tic would have gone for him as he's excellent, also surprised they're even willing to let him go in the first place. Was there not some quote from their gaffer saying he was now third choice?! 

I reckon if you were to get another solid CB to team up with Majstorovic (or however you spell it) and a better keeper you'd do damn well. Not so sure you need another striker, but saw today Murphy might be off to forest, and I suppose samaras can't really be trusted too, so maybe you do need one :thumb:

I reckon we need a centre half, a left back and maybe more options out wide and we'd be well improved. Starting eleven standard.


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## Pink_Floyd

Yep, football is what it's about, nothing else. Nothing wrong with a bit of banter between fans but at the end of the day it is a piece of leather being kicked around a grass pitch. Not worth any aggro.

I think they will try and go for Gordon, although he is currently injured I believe which means relying on Zuluska for a short while. Murphy just never made an impact and certainly not a 1.5m one! 

Left backs are hard to find, really surprised Rangers haven't just paid Hearts what they want for Wallace, assuming it's not mega bucks?


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## Bratwurst

Did Hearts not quote 3M?! :doublesho I'm positive they did. Mental, even more so for a guy in his last year. I'm sure if anyone dangled a million or so in front of them they'd think about it seriously. On the plus side, saw this morning (in the record admittedly ) that Villa are willing to let Cuellar go. Just hope he agrees as he's class and could be brilliant teamed-up with Boogie.


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## gally

Heard Rangers bid 2mil Dennis. Very good CB for that price. He hasn't been a mainstay he should have been at Villa. 

Then again usually when people look good in the SPL they aren't actually all that!


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## Bratwurst

2M for Cuellar's a good deal. I hope we get him back.

Are the Tic still in Australia? Not heard much from them in the market...


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## gally

I think Lennon mentioned a few times he needs to wait until he gets home to speak to a few players in our squad as well. I more than anyone realises we need to offload.

I imagine the squad will be back in Scotland today after flying leaving OZ yesterday.


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## Bratwurst

Who do you think he'll move on (if he can)?

Murphy's looking quite likely to go just now. Juarez next maybe? He's not really shown much at all.


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## Pink_Floyd

wee_green_mini said:


> Who do you think he'll move on (if he can)?
> 
> Murphy's looking quite likely to go just now. Juarez next maybe? He's not really shown much at all.


Juarez is an enigma, had a great pre-season and then nothing. Rumour has it that after we got knocked out of Europe he went on strike....... The thing is Lenny is still stating he has a future if he knuckles down.

I think Murphy, Hoovield, Loovens, McGinn will be prime to go. Thomson will most likely go on loan. Oh and I can't see Rasmussen being here much longer either........


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## Bratwurst

Could be quite a clear-out then down Parkhead way.


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## gally

Mcginn is already away on loan. Loovens is still a pick above Rogne for Lenny so he'll stay for cover. (I prefer Rogne).

Murphy definitely, Hoovield maybe another loan somewhere. Anything could happen with Juarez tbf, just don't know. He's got talent that's the problem and he's great cover.

We need a big striker. Boothroyd was the perfect example. And a Goalkeeper, If he's not proven already then he needs to be 30+ as he needs to adapt quickly. I like experienced goalkeepers.

Boruc would probably come back but he's actually mental. Not sure we need someone like that when we have some stability in the team just now.

I remember last year Timo Hildelbrand was available on a free transfer! He's an immense keeper! 

Even high wages would have offset the cost of zero transfer fee but it never happened!


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## Bratwurst

Is Pletikosa over for this medical/trial thing?


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## TommyH

stevie_m said:


> Looks like Whyte is trying to run the club to the same wage structure as Lloyds Banking Group wanted.
> 
> Also find it strange that we didn't offer a contract to Conway as I thought he was a prime target.
> 
> Also looks like they are trying to squeeze every last dime out of their transfer budget which I believe is around the 7million mark (£2 million going to fix the tannoy system, upgrade the canteen areas and small general works. £3 million going to contracts for Whittaker, Davis, Weir and McGregor) another player that I came across is Ján Ďurica, Filip Sebo gave the scoop weeks ago on his twitter page.
> 
> *Still wouldn't be surprised if they punted McGregor, Davis and Whittaker and use the excuse that they didn't agree terms for contract renewals.*
> 
> Now here comes to the meat of the post... Do I think McCoist will hack it as a manager ? I really do hope he does but I have a bad feeling about this, I honestly felt Durrant will be a better manager in time than Coisty. But I will be looking closely to his formations on the pre season tours as I feel this will prob be his main formations for the year coming.


Aye, you know yer fitba


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## gally

wee_green_mini said:


> Is Pletikosa over for this medical/trial thing?


Think he may be joining up when we're back. Ie first training session ect.. for a few days.

Probably see a little more activity now they are back. I doubt there will be major moves though. Stability like Rangers is key while strengthining.


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## Bratwurst

What's the general feeling on who will challenge most for 3rd spot, or indeed split the OF?


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## david g

Hearts


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## Pink_Floyd

gally said:


> Mcginn is already away on loan. Loovens is still a pick above Rogne for Lenny so he'll stay for cover. (I prefer Rogne).
> 
> Murphy definitely, Hoovield maybe another loan somewhere. Anything could happen with Juarez tbf, just don't know. He's got talent that's the problem and he's great cover.
> 
> We need a big striker. Boothroyd was the perfect example. And a Goalkeeper, If he's not proven already then he needs to be 30+ as he needs to adapt quickly. I like experienced goalkeepers.
> 
> Boruc would probably come back but he's actually mental. Not sure we need someone like that when we have some stability in the team just now.
> 
> I remember last year Timo Hildelbrand was available on a free transfer! He's an immense keeper!
> 
> Even high wages would have offset the cost of zero transfer fee but it never happened!


I didn't realise McGinn had gone on loan down south. It will make or break him I think. Loovens is a big donkey IMHO, cost us some terrible goals, although as you say Lenny picks him above Rogne. Probably an experience thing.

Juarez has been played out of position as well, which he doesn't like either it would seem. Who knows what will happen to him. It would be our luck to ship him out, he shines, and in two years earns a massive deal somewhere.......

Goalkeepers are a problem. Given has gone to Villa so no chance there, although I always doubted that move.


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## Bratwurst

Sky are saying Davis has signed an extension with the gers.


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## Grizzle

apparently Miller has signed for the gers.


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## Bratwurst

Where did you hear that mr g??


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## Grizzle

Ranger Rumours (lol) i hope he does its goals and wins we need not to look back on history.


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## Grizzle

Cuellar is to be paraded today apparently.


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## Bratwurst

I've read a fair few articles today saying he was about to snub us and head back to Spain. (Espanyol and some other mob)

I hope he doesn't and comes back to the Gers...

Signing deadline on Thursday.


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## gally

Spanish Deadline Dennis?


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## Bratwurst

No, I mean champions league deadline for this coming round.

At least I'm sure it is. 

Now I'm all confused :lol:


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## gally

Ah okay sorry. So you need someone signed by them for the first leg iirc.


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## Bratwurst

Tis cool Kevin, I post confusing stuff here regularly, no need for apologies man.

Yeah, to get someone who can play in the coming qualifier, we need them signed by the end of this week. There might be another deadline after that should we qualify for the group section but not sure on that one (assuming also that person isn't cup-tied in Europe, Jelavic-style last year.)


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## Bratwurst

Davis signs for FIVE years!


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## Grizzle

lovely 2-0 win against blackpool tonight.


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## Bratwurst

Wee davo had a blinder according to the write ups

Cuellar deal not looking good. Have to say I've noticed something that I don't really like... Mccoists quick to talk about signing targets. All that does is build us up and alert other clubs. I'd prefer he kept quiet and just got on with it. Maybe I'm just annoyed at how this windows going...


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## Bratwurst

Lee Wallace talking terms with rangers after 1.5m bid accepted!


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## Shug

wee_green_mini said:


> Lee Wallace talking terms with rangers after 1.5m bid accepted!


I'm sure if it goes through before the weekend Ian Black will be ready and waitin.


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## Clark @ PB

Hopefully there's a bit of justice and black gets snapped in half.


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## Bratwurst

Bedoya agreed to join gers in January for free. 

Now trying to get young davidson from St Johnstone but first bid knocked back


----------



## Grizzle

is it just me or is anyone else embarrassed by the amount of failed and talked up players joining Rangers?? Absolutely sickening!


----------



## Pink_Floyd

Grizzle said:


> is it just me or is anyone else embarrassed by the amount of failed and talked up players joining Rangers?? Absolutely sickening!


It could be worse, Celtic are only taking players on a free basis........


----------



## wedgie

Well the big kick off is only a few hours away so i will say it now before it all starts.

I hope coisty does well in his first season as manager, but not too well lol

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


----------



## Bratwurst

Grizzle said:


> is it just me or is anyone else embarrassed by the amount of failed and talked up players joining Rangers?? Absolutely sickening!


The majority of the players we've been linked with are with other teams, and out of respect I don't think rangers should be talking about wanting them in interviews. Also while the press may be right in linking us, we dont have to agree or say anything, no wonder other teams are moving in, meaning we miss out.


----------



## Pink_Floyd

Well in the early hours of this morning I thought to hell with it and signed up for the SKY world pack. You get ESPN free for 3 months as well. Gonna watch the Rankers, sorry Rangers game 

I think this will be a great season for the Old Firm :thumb:


----------



## Bratwurst

I see averageknob's rape charge has been dropped. Fair chance he'll be sold soon now I reckon.


----------



## detaillover

wee_green_mini said:


> I see averageknob's rape charge has been dropped. Fair chance he'll be sold soon now I reckon.


He's still got a court case for assault due in august any transfer could hinge on that... he'll probably get away with it anyway.


----------



## Bratwurst

Oh aye, so he has, sorry.


----------



## Bratwurst

Does anyone know if the Rangers game is on the box anywhere tonight?

I had a flick through the V+ last night but couldn't I see a thing in the listings. I know Rangers and the Daily Record have it on-line, but I think that's only out-with the UK. Might have to try and find a stream online somewhere...


----------



## gally

I haven't seen it advertised anywhere Dennis. Kinda a big game already! 

Can't handle this starting early palava!


----------



## Bratwurst

Ooof I know Kevin, it's a bit much. I know there's a lot of debate about players being paid too much and it being a privilege to play etc, but they didn't get much of a rest at all. Some were lucky to get a week off. I know it was to ease congestion at winter and all that, but do you not think that with the players starting so early (meaning the season's longer) that actually _more_ players will end up injured, and how then can a team with a small squad be expected to cope? It seems that every year the league set-up changes in some way.

Aye, big one tonight! Not overly confident. I'd take a one nil win quite happily.


----------



## gally

Look at both our teams last year. We had 0 Cb's at one point!

Oh and it's world cup year pretty much, obviously from an SPL pov it's not going to provide 99% of it's players but there will be a few no doubt, and with zero rest time between the end of this season and the start of next season.

Aren't we having a winter break this year though? I like boxing day fixtures!


----------



## Bratwurst

That's right, I remember that! Mental. And this is the league trying to help?... we'll see...

Not sure on a winter break, if there is it can't be that long. I thought there was talk of bringing the new year OF game back to like the 27th/28th/29th this year? Supposedly to lower the 'trouble'. I feel safer at an OF than I do against some other teams. A game against Hibs a few years back springs to mind when I saw a big bunch of mental hibs fans running over the top of parked cars and just lashing out at anyone near them. Proper scary. Honestly, the worst I've ever seen with my own eyes at an OF game is unsavoury verbal and the occasional fan trying to get on the pitch.


----------



## gally

I never seen any violence at over 20 OG games i've been to. But you're right. Tynecastle is a horrible place to go as well. And I love Edinburgh.


----------



## Spoony

wee_green_mini said:


> Does anyone know if the Rangers game is on the box anywhere tonight?
> 
> I had a flick through the V+ last night but couldn't I see a thing in the listings. I know Rangers and the Daily Record have it on-line, but I think that's only out-with the UK. Might have to try and find a stream online somewhere...


It's on premier sports. Same mob that ran setanta. 7.99 a month if your on sky. Can't get it on VM as they didn't take it on believing it's financial model wasn't viable.


----------



## Bratwurst

Och knickers. 

Thanks for the info Spoony! :thumb: I'll have a wee gander at their website later and see if I can stream it from there.


----------



## Bratwurst

The Gers need to get their fingers out their rings.

5 at the back - why?

This is a qualifier in which we need goals for results, not where you are rewarded for draws a-la CL. 

He needs to bite the bullet and drop/sub either edu or mcculloch and get davis in the middle where he can play properly. Get a left winger on the left wing, and get the right footed ortiz on the right. there's no proper balance to the team doing this mad 'oh he can cut in' ****. We need to attack this mob and get to them down the sides.

Mon tae **ck rangers.


----------



## Spoony

I can't watch it. This team won't stand up in the SPL let alone europe


----------



## gally

How are you playing Dennis?


----------



## Spoony

gally said:


> How are you playing Dennis?


I wish Dennis was playing, be better than this lot.

The team can't pass and for me the best player atm is wallace


----------



## Bratwurst

found me a wee stream 

and yes, I could play better .

How whittaker got 20k a week deal I'll never know. 1 minute he's good next he's bloody awful.


----------



## Bratwurst

to be fair, we've been well on top as the 2nd half's gone on, just that final ball or final touch has been missing. We could be sitting at 3-1 just now if it hadn't been for a few close-ones.


----------



## detaillover

Well as a celtic supporter i have mixed feelings about tonights result.... Due to the rivalry i couldnt help a rye smile, however for scottish football this could be a disaster if they dont win next time out, scottish footballs reputation will drop even further just gotta hope the jambos or celtic can regain a bit of dignity for the scottish game (doubt it very much though)


----------



## Grizzle

detaillover said:


> *Well as a celtic supporter* i have mixed feelings about tonights result.... Due to the rivalry i couldnt help a rye smile, however for scottish football this could be a disaster if they dont win next time out, scottish footballs reputation will drop even further just gotta hope the jambos or celtic can regain a bit of dignity for the scottish game (doubt it very much though)


my gosh its amazing how quickly you can add people to your ignore list!

:lol:

Shocking tonight i suspect this is going to be a long drawn out season and i really dont see many wins or trophys this year.


----------



## Mick

Grizzle said:


> i really dont see many wins or trophys this year.


bit early in the season for awe that big yin is it no? 

not that it would necessarily be a bad thing :lol: :thumb:


----------



## EcosseGP

Nightmare start ti the season as I can see. We've started off so lethargic for a couple of important games. Always good to win the first league game and tonight yeah we should have won but why are we always saying "should've" .. Dread ti think how this season is going to pan out but we need to get a bigger squad ti allow us a bit more flexibility. Hope Ally doesn't copy the Walter route ..


----------



## Bratwurst

He seems to copy a lot... Players out of position, 5 at the back in Europe, sitting in the stand, reluctance to change things...


----------



## detaillover

Grizzle said:


> my gosh its amazing how quickly you can add people to your ignore list!
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Shocking tonight i suspect this is going to be a long drawn out season and i really dont see many wins or trophys this year.


lol i dont discriminate against you because your a grangemouther haha :lol:


----------



## wedgie

EcosseGP said:


> . Hope Ally doesn't copy the Walter route ..


You guys wont be complaining if he brings in the trophies that walter did..


----------



## Grizzle

detaillover said:


> lol i dont discriminate against you because your a grangemouther haha :lol:


thats ok i dont mind i'm actually from Glasgow 

Not sure thats any better or not lol


----------



## detaillover

Grizzle said:


> thats ok i dont mind i'm actually from Glasgow
> 
> Not sure thats any better or not lol


Maybe just a wee bit lol not by much though haha


----------



## Spoony

wedgie said:


> You guys wont be complaining if he brings in the trophies that walter did..


Correct, but an OF manager needs to hit the ground running.

I don't think Ally is the right managerial fit. Why insist on playing McCulloch, we do not need a sitting midfielder. Start 4-4-2 and give Jelavic the support he thrives on.


----------



## wedgie

Spoony said:


> Correct, but an OF manager needs to hit the ground running.


True, but give him time and he will come good after all he leant the trade from one of the best .

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


----------



## gally

Yeah I think he'll be fine. I'm still worried about the season ahead. Of course it's always hard to have 2 poor results at the start. We got pumped off Bratislava. Didn't we win the league that year?

Anyway, Ally is in a similar role to what Lennon was in last year. Rookie manager, first full season in charge and all the pressure of the world. Ally maybe has a slight advantage as he was the manager in waiting and knows the club inside out. 

But they both have so much in common now I still forsee an exciting season ahead, both pretty much fighting for their jobs as well. We'll see.

Rangers still had chances against both sides so could have been sitting here a lot different if they had went in, then again most teams could say the same.

Rangers will probably play the next 4/5 weeks 1 game before Celtic so they have the chance to pile the pressure on already.


----------



## Shug

Was only a draw but as a n away tie with an away goal should put hearts in good stead for return leg.
As for rangers, I think the problem has been found. Their players really need to focus more on the football, than the 'banter'


----------



## detaillover

Anybody else not really getting why there are friendlies getting played now after the season has started?.... as far as im concerned it could prove to be bad for morale.... celtic have already lost one friendly since the start of the season what happens if they lose the next three, then the momentum is lost and the heads go down.... bloody stupid idea as far as im concerned more a money spinner than anything else. Since when were friendles more important than the league? makes a mockery of the spl....

Rant over lol


----------



## allan1888

Celtic were committed to playing in these friendlies before it was decided that the league would start early. Also due to the fact that celtic and rangers don't make much money from the tv rights in this country they have to play these kind of games to maximise the money coming in.bit also helps get the players a bit sharper and fitter.


----------



## detaillover

*Celtic v Inter*

Anyone watching the celtic game?... currently at work and all the normal feeds are banned. I know the score but whats the game like? they playing ok or is it a bit scrappy?


----------



## allan1888

Celtic are playing ok . Inter is clearly the better team though although celtic started with Maloney and samaras up front who are hopeless and shouldn't be anywere near the first team (IMO). Celtic have had enough chances to score since hooper and stokes came on but some great goalkeeping and poor final ball has cost them.



It's been nothing like a friendly though lol


----------



## Mick

detaillover said:


> Anyone watching the celtic game?... currently at work and all the normal feeds are banned. I know the score but whats the game like? they playing ok or is it a bit scrappy?


Merged your Celtic V Inter thread in here buddy, just so all SPL talk is in the one place :thumb:


----------



## Shug

Are there any non old firm fans here? This isnae much different than the last thread on rangers n Celtic.


----------



## detaillover

If non old firm fans post some messages up it will be lol


----------



## Spoony

Shug said:


> Are there any non old firm fans here? This isnae much different than the last thread on rangers n Celtic.


There are a good few around


----------



## Shug

Mad vlad strikes again if rumours are to be believed.
Billy brown sacked and jim jeffries offered director of football job and turned down so gone too.
Gary Locke in temporary charge for european game at least, and prob motherwell game.
Not seen any reports yet but thems the rumours going just now.


----------



## Bratwurst

Aye Shug, it's official. Check out STV Sport.


----------



## Shug

I would wonder what the hell vlad is up to, but looking at results he certainly hasnt shone at all. 25 wins in 61 games with the biggest budget by far outwith the old firm.
Mind you, he's also prob reached the shelf life of the average hearts manager!


----------



## gally

Crazy, I thought you guys could really challenge again this year.

Nothing surprises me anymore though.


----------



## Shug

gally said:


> Crazy, I thought you guys could really challenge again this year.
> 
> Nothing surprises me anymore though.


Havent won a game since march. 
Seems weird at start of the season but with 5 months since a win he probably got more time than most might have.


----------



## gally

Why wait all summer and then 2 games in sack him. Hardly like he's going to bankroll the new manager.

Poisioned chalice much!


----------



## Bratwurst

I reckon he'll get some eastern european dude again...


----------



## Shug

wee_green_mini said:


> I reckon he'll get some eastern european dude again...


Even mr loverman (shabba!) got the boot eventually. No-one is safe!
Didn't walter smith say the other day he's maybe no ready to give up on management quite yet? :lol:


----------



## allan1888

If mad Vlad stopped interfering with the team selection maybe they would do better.


----------



## Shug

Paulo Sergio apparently. Guy that got the boot from sporting lisbon after losing to rangers.


----------



## Bratwurst

Reports saying Rangers have matched Blackburn's bid for Averageknob...

edit - added link http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11781_7077401,00.html


----------



## Shug

I think he'd be stupid to go to rangers, rather to a club currently third in the premiership.


----------



## Bratwurst

Only alphabetically third, they haven't kicked a ball yet, plus would he really play every week there? Yes he'd pocket more loot, but I'm still holding some hope he'll weigh it up and pick the Gers (if United let us talk)


----------



## Shug

wee_green_mini said:


> Only alphabetically third, they haven't kicked a ball yet, plus would he really play every week there? Yes he'd pocket more loot, but I'm still holding some hope he'll weigh it up and pick the Gers (if United let us talk)


Would he play every week at rangers? Many a player has gone to rangers to rot on the bench for years. Usually in england they only rot there for a season or so!


----------



## Bratwurst

I think he would play every week. Naismiths up front just now with Jelavic, but I think he's at his best in behind. Jelavic paired up with Goodwillie would be hell of a big strong attack. Lafferty and Jelavic together did a fair bit of damage in the run-in last season, but the big man's injured for a month of two yet.


----------



## gally

7 bids rejected. Rangers want to pay in instalments that's pretty much the contention of the bid. 

I think he'll sign for Blackburn. Hopefully he'll actually make something of himself.


----------



## gerz1873

Iv got mixed feelings about this saga, I wouold have really liked Goodie at Ibrox but think the price was a bit high for him and i dont think Thomson would have sold him to Rangers unless we paid well over what BR were going to pay. Anyway Rangers have other things to focus on like creating history and overturn a first leg home defeat in Europe


----------



## Bratwurst

According to several reports, the United chairman received an offer yesterday matching BR's but still refused permission for Averageknob to talk to Rangers, so the clubs hands are tied really. No point in upping it even more when another team could then get him for less, all because United don't want to sell to us. Time to move on Gers and get others in.

Would it have been this way if they'd just met the 2m valuation weeks ago?

No.

Very poor dealings by whoever is trying to get us players this year (smith? whyte himself? russel?). They want to get their finger out their ring and get the job done rather than pissing about. When Bursa tried to get Whittaker, Rangers set a price (and on a few occasions just said 'he's not for sale') and stuck to it, so why shouldn't other teams do the same? If it's too steep, move on and don't make yourself look like a fud by upping the 'bid' like it's eBay or something.

Only a wee bit annoyed.  :lol:


----------



## gally

7 bids is a bit much. Thomson said the the bid was enough but wasn't structured well enough to consider over Blackburn's bid. Again the paper printed this in a small section on the inside page for no one to see.

It was all about instalments. Blackburn were probably 2mil up front and 800k add ons. Rangers were wanting to pay it up.

That's a few times this has happened with players you guys have went for. It's the same as we've always done, try to get Scottish players cheap because they're desperate, look at the 300k bid made for Lee Wallace, one of the best young players in the SPL.

We've done the same over the years. This time United made a stand.

Anyway big game tonight guys, so early in the season aswell.

What about big boughy going aswell?


----------



## Bratwurst

Happy with Boogie going. His runs forward bug the hell out of me. More often than not he loses the ball, meanwhile midfield are a man down coz someone has to get back and fill in for him at the back - that man usually being Edu who gets slated a lot, when he's usually fixing the mess Boogie's made.
3M for an over-rated guy who has a year to go?... bite their effing hand off and buy a defender who defends.
Not sure about tonight, but I do think we'll score, just hope Malmo don't or we're in the 5hit.


----------



## Bratwurst

Goian cleared to play against Malmo


----------



## gally

Good news but I didn't think you guys were struggling at the back just now. Is it Boughy and Goian? Weir bench/back up?


----------



## Bratwurst

I think Wier's proper out injured.


----------



## gerz1873

I am worried about tonight as Rangers midfield is poor at6 the minute. Davis is the only creative player in there and i prefer Naisy in a free role behind 2 strikers which is not going to happen tonight


----------



## Bratwurst

Gers lookin OK and one up, but man WTF was Whittaker thinking with his sending off. Tadger.


----------



## Bratwurst

FFS Bougherra off now


----------



## Bratwurst

2-1 Rangers :doublesho

(red cards that is :lol


----------



## Spoony

Absolute self destruct tonight, should have put them to bed at Ibrox. 

Whittaker should get to **** in my oppinion. Every game we've played this season he's been like a man down.


----------



## stevie_m

Well the pinch penny attitude of the Rangers board has come to bite us in the ****.

We've lost out on two strikers and two wingers that could have won us the games to get us into the CL


----------



## David

totally gutted and frustrated with that display tonight

nothing else for it but to try and go all the way again in the europa league


----------



## kcass

dissapointed in the gers score tonight.was expecting a far better performance.
ally best pull out s0mething fast or he'll be at newton mearns jobcentre faster than he thinks.......
glamour tie against chelsea saturday,c'mon the bears..


----------



## EcosseGP

That was a f---g nightmare tonight a must win game & they come out with a performance like that. Players should know better getting sent off in these situations but I don't think McCoist has got the hang of this managerial thing yet either .. One change made in a must win game not good enough. To me it says it all when we can't even afford to buy an average striker from Dundee United. Well hacked off especially knowing the money that we've lost out on being in the champions league.
So many questions need answered but doubt they will be .. Should scrap the friendly against Chelsea because if we get a doing in that it'll have a knock on effect in the next league game .. 
See the tic went down too ..


----------



## Spoony

This is Kaunus (spelling?) all over again. We should have spent the 7million we needed to before the CL qualifier then reaped the 12million or so reward in which would have covered the signings and then lined the coffers too.

However we've lost that and we've lost the appeal to new targets and given us potential difficulty for next year. Why don't we learn? Or does Whyte not have the cash?


----------



## detaillover

EcosseGP said:


> That was a f---g nightmare tonight a must win game & they come out with a performance like that. Players should know better getting sent off in these situations but I don't think McCoist has got the hang of this managerial thing yet either .. One change made in a must win game not good enough. To me it says it all when we can't even afford to buy an average striker from Dundee United. Well hacked off especially knowing the money that we've lost out on being in the champions league.
> So many questions need answered but doubt they will be .. Should scrap the friendly against Chelsea because if we get a doing in that it'll have a knock on effect in the next league game ..
> See the tic went down too ..


Yep these friendlies once the season has started are ********.... theyve only won one out of 4 or 5... whats the point definately not for a morale boost.... just the money then(fair enough) but it could have a knock on effect in the league and europe.... cant beat swansea but weve to go in to europe and try and compete... fat chance. Can see the heads going down a bit.... however im just a pessimistic ******* lol... CELTIC FOR THE EUROPA CUP!!! lol


----------



## EcosseGP

Spoony said:


> This is Kaunus (spelling?) all over again. We should have spent the 7million we needed to before the CL qualifier then reaped the 12million or so reward in which would have covered the signings and then lined the coffers too.
> 
> However we've lost that and we've lost the appeal to new targets and given us potential difficulty for next year. Why don't we learn? Or does Whyte not have the cash?


Yeah IMO Whyte doesn't have the cash or why not spend it & attract the better signings to Ibrox. You've got to speculate to accumulate & we've been through all this in previous seasons & still don't learn. Think the CL is worth around 10-22 million in the group stages depending on results.. The purpose of friendlies should be pre season only when it's to break players back into fitness or introduce players into a team no point after the season has started .. Can't believe we're again going to rely on a 43 year old central defender because he's the best we've got .. Total p--h. 
We'll be lucky if we get past the first round in the Europa Cup too so not holding my breath.


----------



## baz8400

this is a clip i found very funny...........http://youtube/dS0NiTOpEks
and just for the record i support dunfermline not the old firm


----------



## EcosseGP

You might finish above us the way things are going ..


----------



## baz8400

after watching us against st midden i cant say im full of enthusiasm for the rest of the seaseon altho i hope im wrong.


----------



## gally

Well the morning after the night before. It's a bad result, we had the same in more than 1 season.

You always say once out of Europe you can concentrate on the league but everyone wants to play Champions league football. Europa league is okay but I find it more of a distraction than real European football. Maybe because we know we NEED to win the spl this year.

I know Rangers won't panic, it's mearly a bad result not the end of the world, you're still in Europe and I think you guys will bring in some more players now that Whyte has seen that you need to invest.


----------



## Shug

baz8400 said:


> after watching us against st midden i cant say im full of enthusiasm for the rest of the seaseon altho i hope im wrong.


I think Dunf will prob do not too bad. 9th or 10th I reckons.
Hearts will be 3rd or 7th. 
As for rangers, as long as theres nae chance of you being drawn against Paks in europa league, I'll be happy!


----------



## Spoony

Fantastic result for the hearts tonight


----------



## wedgie

Spoony said:


> Fantastic result for the hearts tonight


Great result for the jambo's :thumb::thumb::thumb:


----------



## Bratwurst

Aye well done the jambos


----------



## gally

Ditto guys, would be fantastic if they could make the group stages.


----------



## EcosseGP

The scary thing is though even with the day after the night before feeling .. Whyte comes away with the statement we will be spending money & buying more players .. Er sorry we've just thrown 20 million away & he wants to spend money now WTF .. Surely common sense says we should've spent money closed season & then enjoyed the rewards of the CL. Personally I agree the Europa League is not worth worrying about it usually turns out to be a distraction so fingers crossed we concentrate on the SPL.


----------



## gally

He says most activity is done towards the end of the transfer window as has always been the case, more bargains, desperate teams, desperate players.

It's just a double edged sword as the qualifiers are well before the end of the transfer window.

Rangers re sign Kyle Bartley on a season long loan. You guys need someone like that tbf especially if Boughy does go.


----------



## Bratwurst

HEARTS v SPURS !!!


----------



## Bratwurst

MARIBOR v RANGERS


----------



## Bratwurst

SION v CELTIC


----------



## gally

Love the Hearts draw, should be a fantastic game, especially at Tynecastle. Draw of the round imo.

We'll see how the OF fair come mid august!


----------



## Bratwurst

Agreed Kev, in a strange way I'm looking forward to that one more than I am the Gers game! :lol:

Can't beat a 'battle of britain' type tie, plus we've been fairly embarrassing so far on several fronts


----------



## Shug

gally said:


> Love the Hearts draw, should be a fantastic game, especially at Tynecastle. Draw of the round imo.


Might be close at tynecastle with narrow pitch and fans on top of them, but we'll be decisively pumped at white hart lane.
I was hoping for paok or H. tel aviv. even athletic bilbao would have done.


----------



## Bratwurst

Just watched the NI vs Faroes highlights there - Paddy McCourts second - bloody hell what a goal !!!


----------



## cra3g...d

And he cant even get a game for celtic. I heard he was a lazy c~~t in training this is why he doesnt get a game dunno if its true .


----------



## Bratwurst

Bedoya's joined Rangers for an undisclosed fee 

(Not sure if he can play in Europe though... )


----------



## gally

Forster back to join Celtic. 24 clean sheets last season, a new record, but... Support still split on him.


----------



## Bratwurst

Yeah Kevin, strange one, I thought he did well last season, but there's more than a few Celtic fans who aren't happy. He's a good solid keeper, I don't see the problem.


----------



## gally

Indeed. There are better out there of course... And they cost a lot of money! 

I doubt Mcgregor was even that good at 21 so he deserves a chance imo.


----------



## Bratwurst

I read a wee bit just there Kev that there's a 1.5m option at the end of the loan. Good price for a good keeper. Wondering though why did the Tic not just pay the 1.5 and get to keep him  when they were allegedly chasing that other keeper for similar.

Anyhoo, BIG night tonight for Rangers, Celtic and Hearts. 3 Scottish wins would be outstanding :thumb:


----------



## gally

Would be good to be at Tynecastle tonight. Place will be rocking!


----------



## Bratwurst

It is! It's just about to kick off on itv4


----------



## Shug

Everyone given up?
After that weekend (where i expected the old firm results the other way round tbh) for europa, I see Rangers going out, but not with a fight. Celtic will sneak it and Hearts will get pumped by spurs under 14 team, but only 4-1 this time.
Looking further ahead, Motherwell to win the league (despite this weekends blip) 2nd celtic, 3rd hearts (sergio will come good!) and the hobos to get relegated. Get down the bookies folks, the oracle has spoken.


----------



## Bratwurst

I thought the Gers were outstanding yesterday - they played Motherwell on the break really well and the pace they broke forward sometimes was brilliant. If we can maybe be a bit more offensive against Maribor's dodgy defence on thrusday I'm confident we'll go through.
Not overly sure about the Tic right enough. Going away anywhere's difficult but in Europe with big-ish stakes makes it even harder.

Motherwell to win the league :lol: can't see that one Shug, they're a good team and all that playing good football (apart from yesterday maybe) but after a ropey start to the season for Rangers and Celtic, I can only see us improving and the others trying to keep up.

edit - just to add, Jordan McMillan at right back was really good. The same as against Chelsea, I don't remember him being beaten once on the deck or in the air either yesterday. Waaaay better than Broadfoot and Whittaker have shown recently. I say give the boy a decent run since he's doing well. Hope that's wee Wylde back in now too and Ortiz in his natural position more too...


----------



## Bratwurst

Good to see wee Wylde signed up for another 5 years with the Champions. 

Good luck to everyone of us in Europe tonight! :thumb:

Although I must admit I think Rangers will be the only survivors...


----------



## Shug

wee_green_mini said:


> Good to see wee Wylde signed up for another 5 years with the Champions.
> 
> Good luck to everyone of us in Europe tonight! :thumb:
> 
> Although I must admit I think Rangers will be the only survivors...


Pfft, rangers will either lose or get thrown out. celtic dont have a chance against goncalves and hearts will win 6-1 to go through on away goals. Novikovas double, skacel hat trick and a last minute goal from jamie macdonald. :lol:

Hearts 6-1 win (500-1) with a skacel hattrick (150-1), shuggie boy is gonna be a rich man tonight


----------



## raitkens83

Another **** night for scottish football


----------



## Spoony

Shug said:


> Pfft, rangers will either lose or get thrown out. celtic dont have a chance against goncalves and hearts will win 6-1 to go through on away goals. Novikovas double, skacel hat trick and a last minute goal from jamie macdonald. :lol:
> 
> Hearts 6-1 win (500-1) with a skacel hattrick (150-1), shuggie boy is gonna be a rich man tonight


As meatloaf once said... 2 out of 3 aint bad.

What a shocking night, I'm in disbelief, I could have played Marribor off the park.


----------



## magoomba

Sion might be getting the boot, as they fielded 4 players signed during a FIFA enforced transfer embargo!!


----------



## Shug

Some cracking performances from a few of the hearts youngsters tonight. If they can keep it up and develop the future is bright for our overdraft


----------



## sicko

that's a nice one. maribor beat rangers. i don't normally watch football but that's suprising. i've never thought that maribor could even have a chance against rangers. 
But hey, ball is round and anything can happen right


----------



## Bratwurst

sicko said:


> that's a nice one. maribor beat rangers. i don't normally watch football but that's suprising. i've never thought that maribor could even have a chance against rangers.
> But hey, ball is round and anything can happen right


Whoops, clicked 'thanks' by mistake, but I suppose in hindsight it was a useful and fair post 

Fair play to Maribor for getting a chance and putting it away. Certainly a thing Rangers didn't do despite numerous attacks. We were woeful up front. Lafferty lost possession countless times, as did Edu in the middle. Some of the Maribor cheating/diving/feigning injury was just ridiculous, but hey Rangers whole European game used to be about getting an away goal and killing the game so we can't complain. Most of the talk in the stand where I was at the latter stages was about how Maribor were at it, but it wasn't Maribor who took it from us by cheating, we pi55ed it away by being rotten in the last third.

A pi55-poor display of crap passing, crap crossing, crap finishing and at times a lack of fight from Rangers.


----------



## Shug

Just read that only one scottish club has won a match in europe this season, and it wasnt one of the old firm. 
Surprised overall about both old firm going out tho. I was ticked off at the seeding system, which essential screws the smaller teams and grants the bigger teams an easier ride to a big pot of cash which just makes the gap even bigger. Rumour is adebayor will be on 170k a week at spurs (last nights commentators were incapable of discussing much else...) 
With the old firm milking the majority of the cash out of the spl, scottish club football in europe is pretty much dead now.


----------



## RD55 DUN

A poor showing for Scottish football last night.

I watched the Hearts game, as I don’t have ESPN for the Rangers game, and they played ok to regain some pride.

However defeats for both old firm teams was poor.

Scottish football is now in the pits, we are now at the same level as San Marino…qualification for any tournament will now be hard.

Something drastically has to change about our game.


----------



## Chuffy

Mon the Well!


----------



## Shug

That'll be the hibs put in their rightful position again. mon the jambos!
All together now, relegation to the hibees, relegation to the hibees.. etc etc :lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

I know it's just the way of things now with the better players, but it doesn't stop him being a B A W BAG - Bangura eyes move away already
Shame there isn't a cooling-off period in footballers contracts, or I'd have told him to feck right off back to his worse league and considerably lower pay.

Or was he just mis-quoted? (this man who is fluent in English)


----------



## Shug

Nothing wrong with a player looking to better himself. Not like he said end of season I'm offski. The one year thing looks kinda like 'if everything goes really well then who knows'
He's a right ugly bugger tho.
(oh, almost forgot. Relegation to the hibees, relegation to the hibees, relegation to the hibees as the hearts go marchin on :lol: )


----------



## David

pre match beverage

tomorrow - got my ticket here can't wait, enclosure ticket.

come on Rangers, use Thursday nights defeat spur you on!


----------



## Bratwurst

Telly and home comforts for me, with some vital liquids hehe. 
2-0 gers I'm hoping, might even put on a wee wager.


----------



## gerz1873

I fancy Lafferty to score 1st goal tomorrow but will wait to see if Ally goes with 2 up front before placing a bet. But the reality is I dont mind who gets the goals as long as the Rangers win, which I think we will. C'mon the Rangers


----------



## Spoony

Radio for me today.

Lunch with the missus in Edinburgh via amiller for a pick up and quick chat, hope there's cake.

I don't fancy the chances as a rangers fan. 0-0 I think.


----------



## Bratwurst

Och 
The burd wi the blonde hair's put her coat in now


----------



## Bratwurst

Cracking game, even better result 

Glasgow Rangers Champions oh oh oh oh oh oh oh...


----------



## GolfFanBoy

Good response after half time and terrific result :thumb:


----------



## Grizzle

In Lemon we trust... **s n i g g e r**


----------



## Bratwurst




----------



## EcosseGP

Well back from Ibrox a better all round performance all round today although the tic never got going in the second half. A better attitude from our players today than in previous games although McGregor looked shaky again and even more so with his horrendous gifted goal. Glad to see Ally went 4-4-2 for a change and to me paid dividends .. Should've realistically been 5 or 6 to us but it was a victory .. Top of the league 4 points clear .. Result !!


----------



## rag1873

Hopefully ally will see the benefit of playing a 442 now as it really should've been more than 4!!

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=55.753236,-4.224229


----------



## billyp

wee_green_mini said:


> Och
> The burd wi the blonde hair's put her coat in now


Aye it was good to see 2 up front


----------



## David

Spoony said:


> Radio for me today.
> 
> Lunch with the missus in Edinburgh via amiller for a pick up and quick chat, hope there's cake.
> 
> *I don't fancy the chances as a rangers fan. 0-0 I think.*




what a result, ended up back in the pub after the supporters bus home....fuzzy on monday morning :thumb:


----------



## Deanoecosse

A message from Scotrail to all Celtic supporters travelling home by train today, "MIND THE GAP!":lol:


----------



## Grizzle

Lets just get this back on track..

Celtic 3-0 down at half time not a shot on target either...AWFUL!! 

54 and counting...


----------



## Spoony

I'm sat waiting on going in to the ibrox. Listening to this on the radio, nuts.


----------



## Grizzle

3-1 now cracking free kick to be honest.


----------



## Spoony

Utter dross from Rangers too today


----------



## Bratwurst

Some very strange things afoot down Ibrox way. Greig walked, the funds are frozen, directors are suing and now this - RFC ban the beeb


----------



## Shug

wee_green_mini said:


> Some very strange things afoot down Ibrox way. Greig walked, the funds are frozen, directors are suing and now this - RFC ban the beeb


can see vlad saying 'now who's the dictatorial nutjob?'
:lol::lol:


----------



## David




----------



## David




----------



## GolfFanBoy

:lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

Some classic posting there David !!


----------



## Grizzle




----------



## billyp

just heard he was deliberately speeding so he could get 3 points


----------



## detaillover

Grizzle said:


>


Cheers for that one Grizzle, we shall see at the end of the season lol...

Who am i kidding were ****! the only chance weve got is if Rangers go under, it wouldn't be the same just a fake title if that was the case. Celtic definately dont deserven to come close on current form!


----------



## billyp

detaillover said:


> Cheers for that one Grizzle, we shall see at the end of the season lol...
> 
> Who am i kidding were ****! the only chance weve got is if Rangers go under, it wouldn't be the same just a fake title if that was the case. Celtic definately dont deserven to come close on current form!


although it's nice to be winning and hopefully it stays that way, but scottish football now is absolute p**h, looking like the irish league more and more and only the old firm keep the interest going,


----------



## Grizzle




----------



## Bratwurst

Yaasss Mon the Dynamo


----------



## David

double post


----------



## David




----------



## Bratwurst

Pains me a bit to say it after a bad weekend, but credit where it's due... bloody hell McGeouch's goal... :doublesho


----------



## gally

The banter is great when it bites you in the bum. I've had it myself and you can only laugh.

4 points Dennis? Makes it more exciting if nothing else. We still have Dundee Utd and Hearts before you lot though!


----------



## Bratwurst

A dramatic turnaround in fortunes indeed!

It seemed what was missing from Celtic up until more recently was a lack of fight and desire, but now you have it back and it seems to have deserted us recently.

This next OF game will surely be a belter


----------



## Bratwurst

Boyd's agreed with his turkish mob to cancel his contract and he's now on a free. The way things are going with us and not getting the ball in the net often enough... I'd well have Boyd back.


----------



## bigslippy

Worryingly enough , if it does happen it could pave the way for a Jelavic sale:doublesho


----------



## Bratwurst

I think the big man will be away either way. I just hope that if we get 8m or 9m for him that we can get a few decent front men in. Or one front man and a guy with some creativity in his game.


----------



## bigslippy

After watching the Masters Football finals on sky earlier this year , I would take Michael Mols back before Boyd:lol:

And The Hammer, he still has it in that left peg:doublesho


----------



## gally

wee_green_mini said:


> Boyd's agreed with his turkish mob to cancel his contract and he's now on a free. The way things are going with us and not getting the ball in the net often enough... I'd well have Boyd back.


Back with his tail between his legs. He proved up here he ould only score against the ****e. That's cold hard fact.

Henrik scored more goals against Celtic than Boyd done.

No doubt he'll be back though. He's still a talent inside the 18 yard box against poor defenders, or mediocre anyway.


----------



## Bratwurst

Totally agree Kev... but it's not only beating/scoring against the Tic that has been winning Rangers numerous trophies. You've got to do it against the 'wee teams' too.
I know he left under a cloud, but to be quite frank he's a proven goalscorer and we need one or two of those, especially if big jelly goes.


----------



## gerz1873

I dont want Boyd back at Ibrox, he's made his bed, he has found out the hard way that the only way is down after the Rangers


----------



## RRobert

gally said:


> Back with his tail between his legs. He proved up here he ould only score against the ****e. That's cold hard fact..


One word for you, "S A M A R A S"

he has only scored one more goal for Celtic than Boyd has for Rangers this season, and he doesnt even play for Rangers!

FACT


----------



## polt

Well just to get my 2p worth in, should Rangers re-sign Boyd - nah leave him alone - reason being, Not done well with the 2 teams he's joined since leaving Gers also Big Wattie must have knew something about Boyd's ability as he never let him start big games i.e Celtic, Euro nights. 
I'm a Pars fan but don't hold it against me !! lol I believe that both Celtic and Gers need to do well in Europe every year - gers more so due to finances. So why buy Boyd or pay out money from wage bill for a player that will not do it on the "big" stage. 

gers should look elsewhere, such as championship for a young striker or take a couple on loan for the cost that Boyd will want in wages.


----------



## gally

wee_green_mini said:


> Totally agree Kev... but it's not only beating/scoring against the Tic that has been winning Rangers numerous trophies. You've got to do it against the 'wee teams' too.
> I know he left under a cloud, but to be quite frank he's a proven goalscorer and we need one or two of those, especially if big jelly goes.


I think I posted in haste. It would be a great free transfer.

Guaranteed goals, so apart from wages why would you not want him?

You right about the other teams. We only play each other 4 times it's more important to score in the other games.

Look at the points both teams have dropped this year? Only 1 OF game.


----------



## RRobert

gally said:


> I think I posted in haste. It would be a great free transfer.


----------



## Bratwurst

:lol::lol:



Not long now until the bids should start appearing for Jelavic and a few others. I can also see Davis going TBH. He's just not been performing as well as in previous years. Whether that's because he's doing more of the dirty work (to cover others) or if he's just lost some spark/desire, I don't know. I reckon if someone came in with a wee 3 or 4 million he'd be offski too.

Just hope Whyte lets Ally use any sales to re-invest in the team. I think we could do with a freshen up.  Just a wee something to keep us on top...


----------



## stevie_m

Boyd is the only footballer I know that sweats from the **** first !

We'd need to buy another striker if we took him on as we would need one to do the running around and pulling the defenders out of their positions as Boyd is too stupid to do that. I'd rather cherry pick from the Hearts team if I'm honest.

Jelavic is a goner ... It's just a case of which team.


----------



## Grizzle

What a disaster today!, never a red for McCulloch and it was that card that ruined us.


----------



## Spoony

Certainly got interesting, but I'm hurting after that. Shocking display today, the ref didn't help but we didn't help ourselves. I hope this is the wake up call Ally needs to see Jig ISN'T a footballer.

We need more class in that team we need more pace and we need more creativity.

Jelavic missing an absolute sitter on 55mins didn't help either.


----------



## Bratwurst

Got to disagree big man, I think it was a red. Totally with you on it's effect though! The tactics after the red card were dreadful. Now 2 men suspended for midweek, celtic needing a win to go top?.. We're going to get rogered.


----------



## Spoony

I didn't see it I was out at the time. I only seen the second half.

Red or not Jig should never have let the ref have to make that decision.

Allys knee jerk to take off wylde right away was franklyy embarassing. You NEVER change the team right away with a sub unless its a keeper IMHO, Wylde can cope with the responsibility.


----------



## stevie_m

Pretty sure McCulloch just handed out some rough justice after that challenge, he's not normally the type to roll about the deck in agony.


----------



## gally

I think it was a red only because ge clearly connected with the guy. Intention or not. It did change the game of course. 

With 11 men I believe the team would score again but they just went flat. Crazy day. 

To be honest even the Rangers fans must have seen this coming. They've been so bad for weeks. 

Sets up a firecracker on Wednesday. I'm still not confident!


----------



## stevie_m

We've been on the slide since Naismith got injured, the wee man pulls everything together for us.

Being honest it isn't looking good for Wednesday night but I want the Gers to right into them !


----------



## gally

Big night boys!

Any early predictions?


----------



## Bratwurst

I think we'll get our arses felt... 3-0 to the Tic 
I really hope I'm wrong though and we stick it right up yeez


----------



## Grizzle

Was touch and go with the wind but Sellik have won a few games lately and to the best of my knowledge none of their fringe players from the 1990s have died recently.

Therefore the game goes ahead.

2-0 to the teddy bears.


----------



## Alzay

Saints 3-1 Killie. End of. Is there any other games on?


----------



## Grizzle

Alzay said:


> Saints 3-1 Killie. End of. Is there any other games on?


No...not that i know of, if there is...who cares?


----------



## billyp

Well the bears lost 0-1 and overall thought both sides were equally mince, we had agreat chance when captain america knocked it over and wallace's header was imo over the line but thats always a hard spot for the guys in black to call, a genuine mistake, but it's not last nights game thats to blame for losing top spot it's the points lost to the killies and saints etc, honestly fear the worst now unless we get cash to spend  , but that does not take away the fact that celtc are on a good run and playing better than us just now


----------



## stevie_m

It shows how badly we are missing wee Naismith. They could have played through the night and we still wouldn't have scored.

Jelavic showed last night that he has no heart or fight in him.

I wish McCoist was playing last night (even in his current state) he would have scored against them ! 

Congrats to Celtic for the win. 

The game was ****e though.


----------



## Bratwurst

And I see today we're about to solve all our problems by buying Sandaza


----------



## Grizzle

12 goals from 16 starts aint bad mate, Jelavic aint interested anymore you can see that let him go appaently for 10 million (highly unlikely)


----------



## Bratwurst

Aye, true Griz
I'm still well keen on getting Boyd back if we can. I'm not convinced that scoring is our problem... creating (or not) is the big worry, there's been bugger all since Naisy got bust.
Laff and Jelavic were completely isolated the other night, no-one was prepared to get hold of the ball and run forward, and no-one had the eye to get a ball forward to them that they could hold on to.
I just hope wee Cwaigy-boy gives Ally a good chunk of the Jelavic loot if he goes. We need freshened up and a few new faces to get us moving again.


----------



## baz8400

ffs you lot think youve got problems.....try being a pars supporter


----------



## billyp

wee_green_mini said:


> Aye, true Griz
> I'm still well keen on getting Boyd back if we can. I'm not convinced that scoring is our problem... creating (or not) is the big worry, there's been bugger all since Naisy got bust.
> Laff and Jelavic were completely isolated the other night, no-one was prepared to get hold of the ball and run forward, and no-one had the eye to get a ball forward to them that they could hold on to.
> I just hope wee Cwaigy-boy gives Ally a good chunk of the Jelavic loot if he goes. We need freshened up and a few new faces to get us moving again.


Don't think boyds the answer imo, but agree the midfield needs an overhaul, every team we play against outwith old firm games seem to pass us off the park, without creating chances even the best striker in the world would struggle


----------



## Bratwurst

Yeah, I agree Billy, I was just meaning that he's there and he's free and he's proven. We're also low on numbers up front to add to it all.
Midfield is a must for improvement. Someone (or a few guys) with an eye for a pass and a bit of something special would help us a lot.
On a side-note, I'm annoyed at McMillan never getting a go, but instead we persist with Whittaker or Broadfoot on the right when the two of them are hopeless IMO. I've seen McMillan a few times now and I think he's a cracking young player who deserves a shot.


----------



## billyp

wee_green_mini said:


> Yeah, I agree Billy, I was just meaning that he's there and he's free and he's proven. We're also low on numbers up front to add to it all.
> Midfield is a must for improvement. Someone (or a few guys) with an eye for a pass and a bit of something special would help us a lot.
> On a side-note, I'm annoyed at McMillan never getting a go, but instead we persist with Whittaker or Broadfoot on the right when the two of them are hopeless IMO. I've seen McMillan a few times now and I think he's a cracking young player who deserves a shot.


Seen McMillan myself and he looks the part, Ness has been as big a miss as anyone as he really has talent but looks like he will struggle to be free of injury, up front well if really short of cash what about algui or whatever he's called from falkirk ?


----------



## Bratwurst

I was reading about him through the week there. Doing well by the sounds of things...


----------



## Bratwurst

Rumour has it McCoist's quit

Probs no more than that, just thought I'd say...


----------



## gally

Keep forgetting about this thread Dennis.

Best transfer window ever from a Celtic POV. I feel for McCoist though. It's so far out of his hands it isn't funny. You guys can still win the league though, this is fact. 

Oh and I need to try out that Migliore for the summer!


----------



## Alzay

Fantastic to see Rangers in so much turmoil, Sandaza is far too good for them. GIRUY.


----------



## Grizzle

Alzay said:


> Fantastic to see Rangers in so much turmoil, Sandaza is far too good for them. GIRUY.


Lovely thanks for that. how is 5th in the league these days??


----------



## gally

Alzay said:


> Fantastic to see Rangers in so much turmoil, Sandaza is far too good for them. GIRUY.


Always nice to see thought through discussion...


----------



## Bratwurst

Agree with everything you've said there Kevin... it's not over at all, it never really is until maths comes into it as we've all seen before - but - The Tic have had a good window... strengthening well, while we got weaker, so for this reason I can't honestly seeing you drop points the way we will in the coming months. The only bright side I see from a playing point of view is that now that our main man up-front is away, hopefully now we'll dig in more as a team than being reliant on one man.

The window there just ripped the **** right out of Ally though. I feel so sorry for him. He's got a boss who seems to be the tightest man on the planet and also one of the most secretive. I mean, offering 500k for a premiership captain - WTF is that all about? Now with Ellis on-board, things are getting more and more sinister. I've been trying to deny myself the thoughts... but now more than ever, I'm convinced that they don't actually give a 5hit about the football side of us (players/team/fans) and that they are there to do a hatchet job and strip the club bare.

Administration can make the 'right' people extremely wealthy. With all the contractors we work with going bust, we get letters in regularly telling us we will be getting bugger-all from them, yet the administrators NEVER lose out, and also rarely too do the owners (or once owners).


----------



## Shug

The best thing about whyte, is that he makes romanov look good :lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

wee_green_mini said:


> With all the contractors we work with going bust, we get letters in regularly telling us we will be getting bugger-all from them, yet the administrators NEVER lose out, and also rarely too do the owners (or once owners).


I mean where I work by the way


----------



## Bratwurst

Looking more and more like BS rumours the thing about Swally chucking it.

Just found this though... interesting...

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/rangers/295827-rangers-boss-fails-to-convince-board-to-sanction-signings/


----------



## gally

I always thought that was crap, all stemmed from him walking out the front door and looking a bit pissed, tbf you would be too!

I was just shocked upon reading the revelations. You can't use a 24.5 million pound loan to buy the club. Everytime the season ticket money comes in from now on it has to go back out to pay the loan. 

Confuses the hell out of me as season ticket money is pretty much the main income for a club outside of champ league money.

Oh and as per my twitter rants that Grant Holt thing was an absolute joke! How in hell did they think they would get him? Never mind the fact he's playing in the PL and for a very good side at the minute. 

Not damning Rangers but at this point in time choosing them over Norwich just would never happen. PR exercise or just hoping it would get accepted by some miracle!


----------



## baz8400

i see we have signed jordan mcmillan and kyle hutton from rangers. any gers fans think they are any good?


----------



## Bratwurst

McMillan's a steal for the reported 100k. Personally (from what I've seen of him) I think he's better than the two wallopers in front of him (Whittaker and certainly Broadfoot). Hutton proved many a time he could handle the SPL and even the European stage, so he'll be good for you too I'm sure.


----------



## Louise

baz8400 said:


> ffs you lot think youve got problems.....try being a pars supporter


Or a Hibs supporter


----------



## baz8400

tbh louise we are utter gash....you are lucky we are in the league or you would be going down instead


----------



## Clark @ PB

What amazes me is that folk still actually buy any of the newspapers, I haven't bought a single one since we reached the UEFA Cup Final as they're a complete joke - the level of journalism in this country is incredibly poor (Chic Dung still has a job after all!) and they just lift all their stories from twitter or dedicated fan forums where the news breaks so much quicker anyways!


----------



## Bratwurst

Guidi is the pits man... every night I listen to the Clyde phone-in and he can regularly be heard getting tied in knots from the pi5h he's spouted a night or two before (but refuses to admit he even said it!)
Guys a dong.
Used to like Darryl Broadfoot, but he's murder these days... all he can talk about is how he's the leading light in the tax case and how he was the first.. blah blah blah...

You're spot-on Clark, the papers are full of **** these days and have been for a while now.

Today one was even headlining the shock at a gers player with a former UDA guy... I mean FFS, the dude was about 60, Healy probably had no idea who the old guffer was. How many times do you think these guys have randoms coming up and springing photos on them? Fair enough if it was at some mad terror camp, but the paper said:

"Striker Healy, 32, grinned and even threw his arm around the shoulder of ex-UDA brigadier Jackie McDonald during a trip to Belfast"

now translated for the less sensationalist...

Striker Healy, 32, grinned (as you would when your photo is taken) and threw (or put maybe?) his arm around the shoulder of an old guy (Jackie McDonald as it turned out - whoever the f he is) during a trip to Belfast (which is 20 miles from his place of birth).


----------



## gally

It's nonsense. I stopped buying a paper last year as it was just pedaling bile. The headline was eventually nothing to do with the story day after day was the same.

I used to love reading Graeme Spiers in the Times, sadly he has left now. I could listen to him talk football all night. Seems like a decent Journo.

I do agree twitter is way out in front with underground journolism. Look at the Rangers taxcase blog. 6 months before the paper came out with the big story. Of course the paper can just print stories without fact, that's understandable.


----------



## Bratwurst

Spiers is probably the most fair and sensible one on the program I listen to.


----------



## gally

I really do enjoy listening to him.


----------



## Clark @ PB

Spiers is the worst out of them all IMO - the guy craves constant attention!

As for the Taxcase blog, don't get me started on mad phil! :lol:


----------



## gally

Mad Phil... the less said the better! :lol:


----------



## Clark @ PB

The news all Celtic fans wanted to hear,UEFA have apparently issued a winding up order against us: More Woe for Cash Strapped Gers


----------



## Alzay

Grizzle said:


> Lovely thanks for that. how is 5th in the league these days??


Not too bad thanks, we need to spend more time looking at the table but we are too busy counting all our money.:wave:

Hopefully we will win the non SFA assisted SPL this season.:thumb:


----------



## gally

Well what another few days in the rollercoaster that is Scottish football!

We shall see how things pan out. Nervous as always about tonight's game! Massive massive game for us.


----------



## Bratwurst

Quite frankly, I hope yeez get stuffed lol


----------



## gally

:lol: Any football on at the weekend?


----------



## Bratwurst

How do you think you'll do against the other paupers in the league tonight then Kev?


----------



## Shug

Wonder what the odds are on the SPL finishing the season with only 10 clubs?
Vlad seems to be jealous of rangers stealing his limelight and is desperate to get his club put out of business first.


----------



## gally

wee_green_mini said:


> How do you think you'll do against the other paupers in the league tonight then Kev?


Good question. 2 months ago.. a draw but looking at the 2 teams now i'm confident of a win. I don't think Hearts are the team they were, they sound a bilt wilted recently. Add to the fact I think we'll be well up fo it i'm hopeful of a decent result. 2-1 to us. 

I'm hoping their keeper will still be out.


----------



## Shug

gally said:


> Good question. 2 months ago.. a draw but looking at the 2 teams now i'm confident of a win. I don't think Hearts are the team they were, they sound a bilt wilted recently. Add to the fact I think we'll be well up fo it i'm hopeful of a decent result. 2-1 to us.
> 
> I'm hoping their keeper will still be out.


Kello prob wont play for hearts again. Vlad doesnt like players that dont sign new contracts or leave when the club accepts an offer. Macdonald isn't exactly shabby tho.


----------



## Bratwurst

I'm looking forward to this one, really because I think that to be champions you need to go to the likes of Tynecastle and work hard for anything, so this could tell us a lot about the Tic tonight.


----------



## gally

Agreed. Massive test of character tonight!!!


----------



## gally

Pass marks so far!


----------



## Shug

gally said:


> Pass marks so far!


Including the ref by all accounts.
Though hearts completely giving up after getting screwed isnt helping either.


----------



## gally

Conspiracy? They kinda gave up.


----------



## Derekh929

Job done Celtic 3 nil up at half time the Treble is coming home


----------



## Shug

gally said:


> Conspiracy? They kinda gave up.


Clubs in a bigger mess than rangers, and the cash poured in the celtic team results in these tedious results all too often.


----------



## gally

They are in a very bad way. I've no idea how they are still operating. 

Surely they're going to go to the wall soon. Weird situation. Iirc they have s tax case also.


----------



## RRobert

gally said:


> They are in a very bad way. I've no idea how they are still operating.
> 
> Surely they're going to go to the wall soon. Weird situation. Iirc they have s tax case also.


HMFC have a tax BILL

RFC have a TRIBUNAL


----------



## Dougster

Glorification of terrorist murder squads, and ball boys/girls pelted with stones at Tynecastle last night............

Sweep, Sweep.

It's a shame as Septic's football was rather impressive against Hearts.

Imagine what would happen if we all broke into a chorus of TBB at Dunfermline?


----------



## Bratwurst

Ah but it's only a tiny minority, plus if you don't mention it in match reports or anything then it doesn't exist.


----------



## RRobert

Fill in the blanks where appropriate


----------



## gally

Dougster said:


> Glorification of terrorist murder squads.


Could you elaborate on that part. Was it a song or chant just so we're on the same page.

Oh and utterly shocking pelting the boys/girls. Surely the stewards would do something, they been into the crowd before.

Don't forget it's only the day after it could be in the police or match report. Bit early for the sweeping statement.


----------



## RRobert

Sky 401 today 15:00 if anyone wants a 2nd oppo to see/hear HMFC v CFC from last night.


----------



## Grizzle

Dougster said:


> Glorification of terrorist murder squads, and ball boys/girls pelted with stones at Tynecastle last night............
> 
> Sweep, Sweep.
> 
> It's a shame as Septic's football was rather impressive against Hearts.
> 
> Imagine what would happen if we all broke into a chorus of TBB at Dunfermline?


sweep sweep indeed.

sent to section T for the second half for fear of being hit more with coins etc.


----------



## Bratwurst

That's the Rangers in administration


----------



## The Cueball

wee_green_mini said:


> That's the Rangers in administration


I just texted you that!


----------



## Bratwurst

Didn't get it CB...


----------



## The Cueball

wee_green_mini said:


> Didn't get it CB...


it will be on the way then mate...

sad day for Scottish football IMO...


----------



## Bratwurst

Got it now CB, thanks.

It is indeed a very bad day. 

I find it strange that we've voluntarily done it, and that's even before the tax hearing. 

So pi55ed off and down now


----------



## The Cueball

this is what I have got from my (wo)man on the inside...not sure if it's the release that has went out, or is planning to go out....not got a tv near me.

Rangers have lodged an intention to go into administration with the Court of Session.

The Ibrox club lodged the notice in Edinburgh at Monday lunchtime.

They now have ten days in which to declare administrators have taken over the running of the club.

It is understood the papers are the first step in any formal administration process. It allows the club to speak to creditors to see if they reach an agreement without appointing administrators to take over the running of the club.

Rangers FC are currently awaiting the result of a £49m tax case with HM Revenue and Customs in relation to the club's use of the Employee Benefits Trust to pay players and staff.

The Court of Session confirmed to STV that papers signalling the intention to appoint administrators had been received from the club's solicitors acting on behalf of their directors.


----------



## Spoony

That's the press release cueball aye.

I'm suspecting the tax case bill is due in and this is a statement of intent by whyte. Also remember whyte owns the 18m debt he never paid off. Maybe he's trying to strip the assets to get his 18m


----------



## jamie crookston

The sad reality of it all is that if Rangers go down so do the rest. The ball has started rolling. Including teams in England and Europe with massive debts. The bubble has burst.


----------



## Shug

Other conspiracy theories include deciding they cant win the league, and are going into admin in the hope of getting out in time to be allowed into europe next season. They'll still finish 2nd with a 10 point deduction. 
A sad day for scottish football? Having celtic win everything, rather than celtic and rangers winning everything won't do a great deal to bother the masses I suspect.


----------



## The Cueball

jamie crookston said:


> The sad reality of it all is that if Rangers go down so do the rest. The ball has started rolling. Including teams in England and Europe with massive debts. The bubble has burst.


not really...

it's not the debt that is the issue, it's the ability to repay that debt...

just because Rangers can't make it, that has no impact on anyone else....

:thumb:


----------



## Bratwurst

Shug said:


> Other conspiracy theories include deciding they cant win the league, and are going into admin in the hope of getting out in time to be allowed into europe next season. They'll still finish 2nd with a 10 point deduction.
> A sad day for scottish football? Having celtic win everything, rather than celtic and rangers winning everything won't do a great deal to bother the masses I suspect.


Whoops clicked thanks by mistake.

Meant to quote you Shug...

Maybe short term the tic will win more now, but looking medium to long-term, Scottish football is on the brink of disaster. What do you think this will do to the tv money EVERYONE in the spl rely on? Some of this is channelled out to reserves , u19's and boys clubs etc... what will they do when there's no lolly coming in?

I just hope with all my heart that this is just preparation IN CASE the taxman rogers us, and that they don't and we can forget the application and try to cut costs on our own and keep some sort of semblance of normality.


----------



## Shug

wee_green_mini said:


> Whoops clicked thanks by mistake.
> 
> Meant to quote you Shug...
> 
> Maybe short term the tic will win more now, but looking medium to long-term, Scottish football is on the brink of disaster. What do you think this will do to the tv money EVERYONE in the spl rely on?


Given the huge disparity between what the old firm get compared to everyone else, if a new tv deal was worth 40% of what it is now, and split more equitably then most clubs would be either better off or notice no difference. In fact some clubs make most of their money from gate reciepts, corporate etc and not so much from tv.


----------



## Bratwurst

That's my point... if the Gers actually go under, everyone left will be lucky to get a TV deal, so it's maybe more suitable to say 'What TV deal?'. It's certainly a possibility. After reading some comments elsewhere by gloating celtic fans, and considering their own big drop in profits, I'll say this... be careful what you wish for.


----------



## Shug

Now if celtic go into admin as well, scottish football might really be in with a chance of long term survival and prosperity.


----------



## The Cueball

Shug said:


> Now if celtic go into admin as well, scottish football might really be in with a chance of long term survival and prosperity.


I guess you haven't seen their 6 months financials released today..

they are in decent financial shape, so not much chance of the above happening...

not trying to rub it into any Rangers fans... just saying...that's all.

:thumb:


----------



## wedgie

Just heard on ssn that the gers are losing 10mil a year .....

They are trying to get craig whyte on to explain what is going on

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


----------



## Shug

Just stirring things up 
Look at it this way, for years we've been told the old firm need to move to the premiership, as it'll be good for scottish football and good for them.
Now all of a sudden, we cant survive without them

So, with the old firm scottish football is ****ed.
Without them, scottish football is ****ed.

or, with them scottish football will flourish, without them scottish football will flourish.

Make up yer mind folks!


----------



## Spoony

Shug said:


> Other conspiracy theories include deciding they cant win the league, and are going into admin in the hope of getting out in time to be allowed into europe next season. They'll still finish 2nd with a 10 point deduction.
> A sad day for scottish football? Having celtic win everything, rather than celtic and rangers winning everything won't do a great deal to bother the masses I suspect.


IIRC UEFA ban teams from Europe for 3 years after going in to admin.

My suspicions. Whyte Owns the 18m debt, whyte has underwritten the 24m to ticketus so he owns that too, Whyte draws up a CVA - he only needs 75% of the creditors to agree (himself) and the HMRC are helpless to what Craig Whyte decides the repayment ratio in the pound to be... that is if the biill is around the 10m mark.

Speculation but all we can do is speculate.


----------



## Spoony

Shug said:


> Now if celtic go into admin as well, scottish football might really be in with a chance of long term survival and prosperity.


Never happed DD has been giving them 10m a year soft loans in return for preference shares apparently. Plus with 2 billionaire directors I doubt they'd let that happen


----------



## Clark @ PB

We're not in administration,yet anyways. 

I'm really not shocked by this as CW's interviews of late have suggested that admin might not be all that bad in the long run etc. I can't help but feel that this is CW saying to HMRC "settle with us on an amount or you'll be getting nothing". 

I don't believe he's come out of nowhere to completely strip us of all our assets either,Im still prepared to give him time to see what the end game is. My only hope is that we NEVER see David Murray back in any shape or form,this is all down to him.


----------



## bigslippy

Sounds like it's a calculated decision to secure Rangers in the long run.


----------



## angelw

Murray has a lot to answer for in my humble opinion !


----------



## gally

Crazy times ahead. I just feel Whyte has something up his sleeve. The way I see it though is it's better for Rangers to go into administration as you simply won't survive continuing along the path they're on. 

Bare in mind this request is before the judgement is even made so even if it went for Rangers they would still be in a pretty bad way.

Administration is the only way to get out this mess with a clean slate. I just wish he would explain his plan and stop dragging Rangers through the gutter.


----------



## Clark @ PB

gally said:


> Crazy times ahead. I just feel Whyte has something up his sleeve. The way I see it though is it's better for Rangers to go into administration as you simply won't survive continuing along the path they're on.
> 
> Bare in mind this request is before the judgement is even made so even if it went for Rangers they would still be in a pretty bad way.
> 
> Administration is the only way to get out this mess with a clean slate. I just wish he would explain his plan and stop dragging Rangers through the gutter.


The fact he appears to be playing a game (admittedly with very high stakes) with HMRC prevents him from being too transparant I would guess.


----------



## Shug

Just read that a company of which whyte is an investor, board member and secretary of has just been banned from stockmarket trading due to using clinet funds to pay its own expenses and trading.
He's also just been stung in court over a disputed bill where a judge said he was wholly unreliable.
He has a previous ban of being a company director, which he apparently wasn't entirely clear about. 
He has experience of dealing with distressed companies, with a survival rate that isn't hugely impressive, but his financial gains from apparently are.

He apparently wants out of administration by end of march so they can get into europe. Without european income I'd suggest they are a tinsy bit screwed.

edit: seems hmrc aren't that impressed with things and have applied to the court of seesion to put rangers in administration. Seems they won't let whyte do this his way.


----------



## Bratwurst

More...


----------



## gally

Clark @ PB said:


> The fact he appears to be playing a game (admittedly with very high stakes) with HMRC prevents him from being too transparant I would guess.


Couldn't put it better myself. I just feel like he has a great grand plan. It's a little disconcerting tbh.



wee_green_mini said:


> More...





> HM Revenue and Customs has lodged an application to put Rangers into administration.
> 
> On Tuesday HMRC lodged the order with the Court of Session in Edinburgh calling for the court to appoint an administrator.
> 
> The Court of Session confirmed to STV that the application is scheduled to be heard before a judge from midday on Tuesday. HMRC is due to make a statement on the steps of the court.
> 
> The move comes after the Ibrox club had lodged its own notice of intent to appoint an administrator on Monday. The court will now have to decide whether the administrator should be appointed by Rangers or the tax authorities - with important implications for the future of the Glasgow-based club.
> 
> Rangers are currently awaiting the result of a crucial tax case with HMRC, which owner Craig Whyte has confirmed could leave the club owing up to £75m.
> 
> On Monday, Rangers lodged its own notice of intention to appoint an administrator, with Manchester-based firm Duff and Phelps currently "engaged" with the club. This meant that Rangers had ten working days before having to call in insolvency experts to take over the running of the club.
> 
> One result of the court action by the tax authority could be that a different administrator could be appointed.


Crazy times. I think they called his bluff big time. In this case they would strip the company and not ley Whyte decide who strips it. Ie in cahoots with someone to get the best deal.


----------



## Bratwurst

RFC have until 3:30pm today to appoint their own administrators, and if they don't, HMRC will do it for them.

Administration this afternoon, and deducted 10 points.


----------



## Shug

Apparently Hearts have just paid their tax bill, so thats one less diversion for hmrc....


----------



## Lee.GTi180

Confirmed.


----------



## Grizzle

Found this funny

No income tax, no VAT
No jelavic, no rfc
Green and White over ibrox door,
It's asda megastore


----------



## The Cueball

Regardless of sides or colour... it's a sad day for Scottish football I think...


----------



## Shug

If this was hearts, or when it was dundee or gretna, most people wouldn't/didn't give 2 ****s.
The old firm have been repressing the rest of scottish football for decades. 
**** em.


----------



## The Cueball

Shug said:


> If this was hearts, or when it was dundee or gretna, most people wouldn't/didn't give 2 ****s.
> The old firm have been repressing the rest of scottish football for decades.
> **** em.


That's the spirit Shug...



:lol:


----------



## Grizzle

Cheers Shug.


----------



## Bratwurst

How very kind of you


----------



## RRobert

Shug said:


> If this was hearts, or when it was dundee or gretna, most people wouldn't/didn't give 2 ****s.
> The old firm have been repressing the rest of scottish football for decades.
> **** em.


Meanwhile , back on planet earth. . .


----------



## RRobert

This boy isn't bitter is he? 
by Mike small -please read 

A very balanced article


----------



## patbhoy

Roses are red
Shamrocks are green
this morning was four
now its fourteen


----------



## Clark @ PB

RRobert said:


> This boy isn't bitter is he?
> by Mike small -please read
> 
> A very balanced article


"Rangers fan Graham Spiers" - my ar$e.


----------



## walker1967

Clark @ PB said:


> "Rangers fan Graham Spiers" - my ar.


Graham Speirs is a rangers fan by his very own admission and is probably the only pundit worth a listen IMHO


----------



## Bratwurst

Says it all that you need your rival to be spiralling towards oblivion before you have a sniff at the SPL trophy.

Enjoy it while you can, because a few years down the line when the coefficient plummets and European competition spaces disappear, your team will also be worth bugger all and you'll be offloading big-time to try to shrink to fit.

Pretty narrow-minded of you to revel in this massive problem for Scottish football as a whole, all the while not thinking about what it really means.

Oh and by the way... the league;s not over 'til it's over.


----------



## Bratwurst

RRobert said:


> This boy isn't bitter is he?
> by Mike small -please read
> 
> A very balanced article


I _think_, _possibly_, he might be a fan of Celtic. 

They're a club who have never been into the old "ritualised bigotry and intergenerational hatred" have they?


----------



## Shug

Why do people think rangers problems are bad for all of scottish football?
Cos celtic will win everything all the time?
How is that different to a non old firm club, to celtic and rangers winning everything?
Because the club that gets into europe instead of rangers will struggle? Because they do so well just now.
Lack of a tv deal? That'll be the one that celtic and rangers take the majority of the money from. Most clubs won't notice much of a difference.


----------



## baz8400

on a lighter note i notice Waddingtons have a brought out a new edition of Cluedo the Rangers Edition....
apparently it was the cripple in the boardroom with a chequebook


----------



## walker1967

If you think you lot even had a chance in hell this season you've been sniffing way too much tar and glue haha


----------



## Clark @ PB

walker1967 said:


> Graham Speirs is a rangers fan by his very own admission and is probably the only pundit worth a listen IMHO


I'll have whatever you're on please 

The guy's an attention seeking idiot with no affection for Rangers what so ever,the fact he's in the back pocket of a certain Mr Lie well says it all.


----------



## gally

It's funny how both sides claim Spiers has an agenda against them.

I personally think he's one of the best sports writers out there. Not that I know much about sports writing.

He does have a vested interest in the OF surviving. It's his livelyhood afterall.

Anyone know what Whyte is up to yet!


----------



## Grizzle

And Whytes response.... bugger off to France!!

Paul Murray could be stepping in though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17034043


----------



## gally

Paul Murray doesn't have a pot to **** in. Why do you think the media never really jumped on his statement. Read it, it's utter nonsense, any fan could say the same thing.

It's like a rally cry to rich Rangers fans that Paul Murray will take their money and lead the mighty charge across the Boyne to regain control of the mighty Rangers! 

Give it a break Paul. There's a reason they weren't fit to take over last time.
They didn't have the money to sustain the club. Murray knew this because better than anyone Murray knew how bad things were.


----------



## Bratwurst

Also going to prove tricky to not work with Whyte, when one of his companies owns the Administrators (allegedly)


----------



## gally

Especially with his ego Dennis. And especially after what former directors etc have said about Whyte.

The Crux is if someone does buy Rangers it would have to be after a deal is done with HMRC. You can't buy a club and inherit debts or 75million unless you're Craig Whyte of course! 

I only see liquidation and a new club being born will all the assets still in place.


----------



## Bratwurst

That's certainly looking more and more likely - unless of course the tax case goes favourably for us.


----------



## Shug

wee_green_mini said:


> That's certainly looking more and more likely - unless of course the tax case goes favourably for us.


Its the 9m in tax that rangers havent paid since whyte took over that caused administration, not the 49m issue. 
They still owe about 1m, to hearts for wallace and dun utd for cup tickets. Plus the 24m to ticketus. Including whytes 18m, thats 52m.
Even if they win the tax case over the 49m, they are still in big trouble bearing in mind the 10m deficit they run on at the moment.
With the 49m they are in over 100 millions quids worth of debt.


----------



## Bratwurst

Shug said:


> Its the 9m in tax that rangers havent paid since whyte took over that caused administration, not the 49m issue.


Didn't know that


----------



## gally

I thought you knew that Dennis. He hasn't paid employee's PAYE or NI since taking over, (May 2011) so it's now totalling 9million pounds. 

HMRC would have put them into administration to stop it going on. Rangers/Whyte had to pre-empt that to stop HMRC taking control. Now Whyte has his favourite administrators on the case. Happy days!

The verdit on the tax case hasn't even been reached yet.


----------



## Shug

Interestingly, according to this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17045635
whyte has been deducting paye from the payroll, but it hasnt been going to hmrc.


----------



## The Cueball

Yip, Whyte is a dodgy f***r, and they have weak finance staff at Ibrox...

Very bad mixture for any business...

:thumb:


----------



## Bratwurst

I knew about the 9m not being paid, but I didn't know it was that which caused the admin, I just thought it was the whole general mess that made it happen.

See paye, I thought an employer could pay it at the end of each calendar year? Is that bull then? You know how you can do that with Vat...

I aint no business man.


----------



## Shug

The Cueball said:


> Yip, Whyte is a dodgy f***r, and they have weak finance staff at Ibrox...
> 
> Very bad mixture for any business...
> 
> :thumb:


You fancy a challenge cueball? :lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

Can I be in charge of the pie stand please?

oh oh oh and the restaurant!


----------



## The Cueball

wee_green_mini said:


> I knew about the 9m not being paid, but I didn't know it was that which caused the admin, I just thought it was the whole general mess that made it happen.
> 
> See paye, I thought an employer could pay it at the end of each calendar year? Is that bull then? You know how you can do that with Vat...
> 
> I aint no business man.


You can pay PAYE monthly, quarterly, or yearly....

VAT is quarterly or yearly....



Shug said:


> You fancy a challenge cueball? :lol:


As I said, they had their chance to employ me.... They should have taken it...

:lol:

:thumb:



wee_green_mini said:


> Can I be in charge of the pie stand please?
> 
> oh oh oh and the restaurant!


For sure


----------



## Bratwurst

I thought so - so surely all this fuss about the 9m is just all hyped up by the media. Why should he pay it now if he doesn't have to?


----------



## The Cueball

wee_green_mini said:


> I thought so - so surely all this fuss about the 9m is just all hyped up by the media. Why should he pay it now if he doesn't have to?


You are on a set program, so if you are set up to pay monthly, then that's what you have to do...

You can't just miss payments and say "I'll pay you later"....

You have to ask to have the payment plan changed over....

:thumb:


----------



## gally

wee_green_mini said:


> I thought so - so surely all this fuss about the 9m is just all hyped up by the media. Why should he pay it now if he doesn't have to?


It's not as simply as that Dennis, they have no money to pay it. HMRC know this. That's why you "apply" to the court to put the club in administration before it goes any further.

They have a point to prove here. If they don't it sets a very dangerous precident.

I'd be interested in hearing Cuey's take on things.


----------



## Bratwurst

Aaah. OK. Cheers CB. :speechles



Really looking forward to pie now


----------



## The Cueball

It is a bit interesting when you start to look actually...

The Rangers Football Club PLC has a further 5 company's underneath which it owns...

2007 and 2009 seem to have been their worse years, losing over £18million

Their net worth as a business will not cover the outstanding debt, so even selling bits off, someone is going to lose big time...

There has been a LOT of money put into the club over the last year, but obviously this has been spent on other things...

As a test in accounting, we have a ratio that needs to be 1 or higher to show that the business is OK and in good health... this score for Rangers is 0.22 

Their auditors have never questioned anything in the accounts, or made any adverse notes about the running of the business... (Grant Thornton UK LLP) which suggests to me, they aren't very good... or they thought that the tax wasn't an issue....

I'm sure all the Fans will know the name Andrew Ellis, but isn't it a bit odd that he started and English company back in 2010, that Whyte is also a director of called The Rangers FC Group Ltd... hmm...

Anyway... there is a little bit more info to mull over...

:thumb:


----------



## Shug

HMRC could still go after any other company, or 'phoenix' company if they think they can prove it is essentially the same entity. In the case of a football club that would seem to be easier to prove.


----------



## Grizzle

The Cueball said:


> It is a bit interesting when you start to look actually...
> 
> The Rangers Football Club PLC has a further 5 company's underneath which it owns...
> 
> 2007 and 2009 seem to have been their worse years, losing over £18million
> 
> Their net worth as a business will not cover the outstanding debt, so even selling bits off, someone is going to lose big time...
> 
> There has been a LOT of money put into the club over the last year, but obviously this has been spent on other things...
> 
> As a test in accounting, we have a ratio that needs to be 1 or higher to show that the business is OK and in good health... this score for Rangers is 0.22
> 
> Their auditors have never questioned anything in the accounts, or made any adverse notes about the running of the business... (Grant Thornton UK LLP) which suggests to me, they aren't very good... or they thought that the tax wasn't an issue....
> 
> I'm sure all the Fans will know the name Andrew Ellis, but isn't it a bit odd that he started and English company back in 2010, that Whyte is also a director of called The Rangers FC Group Ltd... hmm...
> 
> Anyway... there is a little bit more info to mull over...
> 
> :thumb:


I knew all this incl The Rangers FC Group LTD, Julia is an accountant

What i would have you do Cueball is source a wealthy Russian or Saudi Billionaire if you could :lol:


----------



## Shug

Grizzle said:


> I knew all this incl The Rangers FC Group LTD, Julia is an accountant
> 
> What i would have you do Cueball is source a wealthy Russian or Saudi Billionaire if you could :lol:


Vladimir romanov is a russian millionaire.....


----------



## Derekh929

Shug said:


> Vladimir romanov is a russian millionaire.....


You don't want anymore gangsters in there plenty as it is


----------



## Bratwurst

And also a total walloper


----------



## gerz1873

I find it amazing that fans of other clubs are all accountants and tax experts all of as sudden. My hope is that the administrators find a quickish solution for all parties even if Rangers have 4 or 5 lean years in terms of titles and cups won. Because lets face it ceptic are so far behind on that score and anyway we are in debt big time but there have been bigger more disgusting crimes committed at a certain club that seemed to have been hushed up and sweep sweep nothing to see here


----------



## walker1967

gerz1873 said:


> I find it amazing that fans of other clubs are all accountants and tax experts all of as sudden. My hope is that the administrators find a quickish solution for all parties even if Rangers have 4 or 5 lean years in terms of titles and cups won. Because lets face it ceptic are so far behind on that score and anyway we are in debt big time but there have been bigger more disgusting crimes committed at a certain club that seemed to have been hushed up and sweep sweep nothing to see here


Typical *** always bringing up the same topic, you lot go on about said subject more than anyone, geez peace yer clubs goin doon the pan n I along with thousands are delighted GIRUY!!!


----------



## gally

gerz1873 said:


> I find it amazing that fans of other clubs are all accountants and tax experts all of as sudden. My hope is that the administrators find a quickish solution for all parties even if Rangers have 4 or 5 lean years in terms of titles and cups won. Because lets face it ceptic are so far behind on that score and anyway we are in debt big time but there have been bigger more disgusting crimes committed at a certain club that seemed to have been hushed up and sweep sweep nothing to see here


Sweep sweep like you guys did with the tax money. Behave. This is no place to start that crap mate.

Thanks for the info Cuey.


----------



## Grizzle

walker1967 said:


> Typical *** always bringing up the same topic, you lot go on about said subject more than anyone, geez peace yer clubs goin doon the pan n I along with thousands are delighted GIRUY!!!


You sir are a bellend and sums up the Celtic support to a fecking T

March 1994 remember that?


----------



## gerz1873

No doubt Rangers are on their knees at the minute but Rangers will always be around much to the annoyance of some haha
Anyway ceptic went from CFC and athletic co to CFC plc in 1994 I think was the year so even if Rangers come back as a Phoenix club it will be a similar deal
And gally I have alluded to actual events just because you don't like it tough


----------



## wedgie

Grizzle said:


> You sir are a bellend and sums up the Celtic support to a fecking T
> 
> March 1994 remember that?


Dont tar us all with the same brush. I remeber 94 when we were against the wall while you guys were in the middle of you n.i.a.r.

Rangers will come out of this, just maybe slightly different, you just need to find a rich wee canadian like we did.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


----------



## RRobert

As before this thread veers off miles away from actual fitba'

Nobody more obsessed with Rangers FC than the opposition fans. I, and I urge my fellow brothers to leave from this thread and watch as it Peters out once you stop reacting to others goading. 


Thank u


----------



## gally

gerz1873 said:


> No doubt Rangers are on their knees at the minute but Rangers will always be around much to the annoyance of some haha
> Anyway ceptic went from CFC and athletic co to CFC plc in 1994 I think was the year so even if Rangers come back as a Phoenix club it will be a similar deal
> And gally I have alluded to actual events just because you don't like it tough


Thta's some bloody wrong information. Any Rangers Newco would be founded in 2012. Celtic were founded in 1888. No newco.

We were saved and became a PLC, just like Rangers did. Limited to PLC.


----------



## gerz1873

Holy Jesus Gally are you a politician ? I stand by what I said and anyway I'm confident of Rangers not goin into liquidation more based on nothing more than havin my glass half full


----------



## The Cueball

I did watch the news last night, somewhat bemused at Alex “Jabba the hut & most dangerous man in Scotland” Salmond getting involved with Rangers v HMRC, and acting like it was the worst things to happen in business, when there has been several companies go through the same thing in and he has done nothing...

Even last night, a manufacturing company – a source of pride and real work (not overpaid idiots running about on grass) has been liquidated... not a word was said by him about that...and they paid all their taxes and VAT... 

:wall::wall::wall::wall:


----------



## gally

That's great dude. I'd be the same if it was my club but don't be biased, it doesn't exactly promote healthy debate ot discussion. I try my best not be biased. 

I'm only discussing with a few people the biggest story to hit Scottish football since Rangers signed a Catholic (I jest of course) :lol: :lol: :lol:    Jokes etc...

If I was bragging or heartless or biased even I wouldn't be discussing it like I am, i'd be telling you I hope they rot and never come back. That's not me.


----------



## gally

The Cueball said:


> I did watch the news last night, somewhat bemused at Alex "Jabba the hut & most dangerous man in Scotland" Salmond getting involved with Rangers v HMRC, and acting like it was the worst things to happen in business, when there has been several companies go through the same thing in and he has done nothing...
> 
> Even last night, a manufacturing company - a source of pride and real work (not overpaid idiots running about on grass) has been liquidated... not a word was said by him about that...and they paid all their taxes and VAT...
> 
> :wall::wall::wall::wall:


Don't even get me started on him. Not only was it a mistake it was the worst political mistake he's ever made. He's alienated half of Scotland, be it immature or not.

Cuey that company liquidated had 185 workers! Never ever got a fukcing mention from him, not one piece of advice or help! 

Makes me so angry listening to him now. Embarrassment and this is from someone who didn't mind him before.


----------



## Bratwurst

I dislike him mainly because he looks like a giant walking thumb.


----------



## gally

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Haven't heard that one before.


----------



## Dougster

Bring on Saturday.

East Enclosure Loyal.


----------



## detaillover

Grizzle said:


> You sir are a bellend and sums up the Celtic support to a fecking T
> 
> March 1994 remember that?


Cheers for that grizzle lol don't think i can be tarred with the same brush tbh.


----------



## Mick

Im all for a bit of friendly banter and debating, but lets try and keep things civil lads, eh?


----------



## walker1967

Grizzle said:


> You sir are a bellend and sums up the Celtic support to a fecking T
> 
> March 1994 remember that?


 Never realised I was the voice of the entire celtic community :thumb: I have my opinion and others have theirs. Never knew you lot had so much sympathy for celtic when they where at deaths door, nor did the media so I am happy to watch Rangers struggle which as I've said I'm sure many others are, don't recon there would be too many currant buns sympathising with us where the tables turned


----------



## Jason M5

I couldn't care about ra shelic,but every shelic fan i come across seems to have an opinion about The Rangers,they hate us more than they love their own club.
my opinion.Just 
OH AND WE DON'T DO WALKING AWAY!!!!


----------



## Mick

walker1967 said:


> Never realised I was the voice of the entire celtic community :thumb: I have my opinion and others have theirs. Never knew you lot had so much sympathy for celtic when they where at deaths door, nor did the media so I am happy to watch Rangers struggle which as I've said I'm sure many others are, don't recon there would be too many *currant buns* sympathising with us where the tables turned


One more reference to that word from you or anyone else WILL result in a ban, This is a football thread,* Lets not make religion a part of it*, as i Dont see what the hanoverians have to do with a football team.

Same goes for the Tim malloys, If anyone wants to spout that pathetic immature rubbish, please do so elsewhere, where it is accepted, because it will NOT fly on here. I think I've given fair warning.


----------



## gally

Some people can't seperate the two things Mick. It's a society issue sadly.


----------



## gally

Jason M5 said:


> OH AND WE DON'T DO WALKING AWAY!!!!


Just out of curiosity where's your former Chairman and your current Chairman?

Oh wait...


----------



## walker1967

Are we not allowed to refer to each other as either or these days, ive yet to if d anyone who actually takes offence to it, the majority of my m8's are rangers fans and the often refer to themselves as the H word as I also call myself a jungle jim


----------



## Bratwurst

I'd personally prefer not to be compared to a Jew murdering nazi, so you can count me as someone who is offended by it.


----------



## Mick

walker1967 said:


> *Are we not allowed to refer to each other as either or these days*, ive yet to if d anyone who actually takes offence to it, the majority of my m8's are rangers fans and the often refer to themselves as the H word as I also call myself a jungle jim


In a time where everything is sectarian this, and bigotry that, then I would say NO, it is no longer seen as acceptable.

Would you call someone you didnt know down the pub either name? well its not suitable on Detailing world then. Simple.


----------



## Grizzle

Loved the wee debate there on STV with that upstanding Celtic fan Matt McGlone and Micheal Kelly, two of them arguing on TV hilarious.

McGlone deluded as usual if he thinks Celtic can go to England the guy is a bitter bigot of the highest caliber, the same guy who in November wanted Lennon out, awesome fecking awesome.


----------



## gally

Agreed. It's that mentality that got us in this mess. 

No wonder they have to teach anti-sectarianism in schools with how kids are taught at home about football. 

Engrained in Scottish society.


----------



## gally

Grizzle said:


> Loved the wee debate there on STV with that upstanding Celtic fan Matt McGlone and Micheal Kelly, two of them arguing on TV hilarious.
> 
> McGlone deluded as usual if he thinks Celtic can go to England the guy is a bitter bigot of the highest caliber, the same guy who in November wanted Lennon out, awesome fecking awesome.


Both twats producing car crash TV! Tbf the time slot was shocking. It was just **** they were talking.

England league? Really? Are we still going on about that?


----------



## Dougster




----------



## Bratwurst

Just reading there that Alastair Johnston has called for a police inquiry into whytes ' and that the cops are indeed taking an interest.


----------



## Grizzle

gally said:


> Both twats producing car crash TV! Tbf the time slot was shocking. It was just **** they were talking.
> 
> *England league? Really? Are we still going on about that?*


Afraid so, well McGlone seems to think so.


----------



## gerz1873

Separate schools are not helping the issue imo


----------



## Dougster

A "Tim" is a reference to Tim Malloy who was the head of a sectarian Glasgow razor gang who targeted Protestants and not deemed offensive.

Just like Billy Fullerton the leader of a flute band & member of the Brigton Billy Boys gang.


----------



## Grizzle

the little debate.


----------



## Clark @ PB

Haha that's hilarious,proper laughed at those 2 arguing with each other :lol:


----------



## Grizzle

See McGlone on twitter has let his hateful bigot jibbersh loose again!!

"MattMcGlone9: @timbhoy Cheers bud, yeh getting lots of hun hatred today, sad wee world we live in, thanks for your support! HH"

Honestly what world does this pleb live in.


----------



## Shug

I'm sure even the rangers fans will laugh at this:


----------



## Bratwurst

And here was me thinking the SNP had made all this illegal...

We were told before the new bill that in-fact that current laws already covered this...

Yet still it continues...


----------



## Bratwurst

That's a good one Shug :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## The Cueball

wee_green_mini said:


> And here was me thinking the SNP had made all this illegal...
> 
> We were told before the new bill that in-fact that current laws already covered this...
> 
> Yet still it continues...


It continues for a simple reason...

Some people in Scotland need it...they are, quite simply morons, and they can't rise above it..

Everything has got to be hate against the other "colour", jeez, we have whole towns that are like it...

It's an embarrassing shame... and just pathetic.

:thumb:


----------



## Bratwurst

Ach away you go baldy 

:lol:

:thumb:


----------



## lee.

gally said:


> Agreed. It's that mentality that got us in this mess.
> 
> No wonder they have to teach anti-sectarianism in schools with how kids are taught at home about football.
> 
> Engrained in Scottish society.


Don't tar us all with the same brush. Scottish society I think not. You are deluded if you think it goes on everywhere. I live on the north east coast and we have no problems what so ever with anti-sectarianism. If we do you can guarantee it's between two old firm fans who do not even understand what they are saying. I think it's very fair to say that this is very much an issue that lies at least 80% within the west coast/old firm.


----------



## gally

Agreed, apologies. Generalisation.


----------



## Bratwurst

Saturday is going to be very interesting down Ibrox way (ie how the team respond to all of this and also how the fans respond)

Since I can't go to the actual game, I might pop down pre-match and see what's happening in the way of protest etc.

McCoist also has a press conference today. Should be some good/bad listening there (depends on which way you look at it)


----------



## Shug

If romanov has taught us anything, its that players perform better when paid late.
Minute they started getting paid, hearts form dived :lol:


----------



## Dougster

We are in administration, we have been docked ten points and dark clouds hover over Ibrox. However, I can't recall such anticipation for one of our games. I include the UEFA final in that as well.

There will be tens of thousands of bears, probably more, across the world tomorrow bursting with pride.

Our manager and greatest ever goal scorer banged the nail on the head yesterday when he said: "We don't do walking away".

I have heard many people saying that they are heading to Ibrox without a ticket.

It's gonna be emotional.

East Enclosure Loyal (WRC for a pre match Sash Bash downstairs if anyone is up for it!!)


----------



## Bratwurst

Whyte's world falling to bits


----------



## jamie crookston

The more you hear of Whyte's dealings the worse it gets.


----------



## Grizzle

What we need is Whyte out and someone with cash and the business sense to run the club, some one who knows that income must exceed expenditure.

I heard the loan Whyte took out from ticketeus didnt even reach Rangers but was used in his other businesses.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2102287/Rangers-rocked-riddle-missing-24m.html


----------



## Bratwurst

Yeah.  I can't honestly say I've heard of anything, or seen a report in a paper of anything successful he's done. I know that's probably because the media are getting a kick from digging up all sorts of dirt on him, but still, you're right, it's just getting worse and worse.

A wee thing to ponder... Mr Guidi was probably the worst for it (although there were other reporters, not to mention fans etc who got hyped up) who heralded Whyte as this self made billionaire saviour who was going to roll in and save us from this. Those same papers who licked his backside before he even bought Rangers have been on top of him since the deal was done. Funny how things change...

Seems EVERYONE should have done more homework on him before selling... Murray, the Directors, The Lawyers, The Accountants, The Papers, The Fans, everyone connected to Rangers have let this guy in, who even now, no-one truly knows.

I'd been hoping up until now that he had some sort of cunning plan to save rangers, but it's nowhere to be seen really. Neither is he.


----------



## Grizzle

jamie crookston said:


> The more you hear of Whyte's dealings the worse it gets.


totally...he's a modern day Micheal Kelly.


----------



## Shug

Rumour has it he's been destroying evidence of what he's been up to:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-17073341


----------



## gally

Wealth off the radar iirc... :lol: He's off the radar.


----------



## gally

It's like a circus... http://www.octopusinvestments.com/press/news.html?newsId=363

No loans. They now own the 4 years worth of season tickets. Ie they are a secured creditor.

Couldn't make this up, you really couldn't.


----------



## Shug

A circus might be putting it mildy....
(potentially nsfw. just tabloid stuff tho)
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sco...35658/Craig-Whyte-advisor-is-a-porn-star.html


----------



## bigslippy

Shug said:


> A circus might be putting it mildy....
> (potentially nsfw. just tabloid stuff tho)
> http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sco...35658/Craig-Whyte-advisor-is-a-porn-star.html


Does Craig Whyte play the part of two face in the movie ?


----------



## Bratwurst

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/02/17/rangers-in-crisis-ticketus-insist-firm-bought-future-season-tickets-with-24m-given-to-craig-whyte-86908-23754775/

Can someone tell me the why the fuss about this ticketus money thing not being a loan but being owned? I don't understand what the big hoo-ha is...

I'm aware of the tickets being secured somehow to allow the missing 24 mil that Whyte's used/taken/burned/smoked whatever, I just don't understand what difference the own/loan thing makes.



ps. not being a smart ****, I just don't get it


----------



## Shug

wee_green_mini said:


> http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/02/17/rangers-in-crisis-ticketus-insist-firm-bought-future-season-tickets-with-24m-given-to-craig-whyte-86908-23754775/
> 
> Can someone tell me the why the fuss about this ticketus money thing not being a loan but being owned? I don't understand what the big hoo-ha is...
> 
> I'm aware of the tickets being secured somehow to allow the missing 24 mil that Whyte's used/taken/burned/smoked whatever, I just don't understand what difference the own/loan thing makes.
> 
> 
> 
> ps. not being a smart ****, I just don't get it


If it was a loan, then a CVA would reduce the amount of money paid to them. As its an owned asset, it means they are top of the pile to get money back, IF rangers collapse. As long as the club continues in its current form, they still have the asset they paid for.
(i.e. if a cva says 50p in the pound they would have got 12mill. As they own the asset, they'll be due 24mill)
Like having a mortgage rather than a personal loan.
Or something like that.


----------



## Bratwurst

Thanks Shug :thumb:


----------



## Grizzle

the wannabee accountants continue then,


----------



## Shug

Grizzle said:


> the wannabee accountants continue then,


You don't have to be a qualified mechanic to know an engines ****ed.


----------



## Grizzle

Shug said:


> You don't have to be a qualified mechanic to know an engines ****ed.


Really??


----------



## Clark @ PB

Grizzle said:


> What we need is Whyte out and someone with cash and the business sense to run the club, some one who knows that income must exceed expenditure.


What we need is fan ownership. I don't want a sole person to be the main guy at Rangers anymore,it's not the way forward in my opinion.


----------



## Chuffy

mon the Well!


----------



## Bratwurst

An a wee bit o chuff in the avatar too :thumb:


----------



## Jason M5

gally said:


> Just out of curiosity where's your former Chairman and your current Chairman?
> 
> Oh wait...


See what i mean another comment about The Rangers.


----------



## gerz1873

Jason M5 said:


> See what i mean another comment about The Rangers.


Mate they are obsessed about us , even their manager can't help himself giving opinions where he should have sfa to say about OUR club


----------



## Clark @ PB

gerz1873 said:


> Mate they are obsessed about us , even their manager can't help himself giving opinions where he should have sfa to say about OUR club


It's an inferiority complex


----------



## Spoony

All the speculation is just daft, and this Celtic fans wanting titles stripped is just ridiculous.

Lennon is coming out every other day publically talking about Rangers - he accuses us of cheating, he'll incite a riot at this rate. If I were a celtic fan I'd be more concerned about my own team who cares about the rest.


----------



## gally

I think it's a bit daft to say Celtic fans shouldn't talk about it. By your own admission it's a massive talking point involving a massive club. 

Lets cut Lennon some slack and maybe read the story instead of the back page. 
He never once said he wanted the titles stripped from Rangers. Utterly ridiculous. The only people trying to incite a riot today and last season are Scotland's papers. Shameful reporting. 

2 Celtic people have commented. Lawell and Lennon. That's it. Lennon is his interview even said he had spoken to Mcoist and he felt for him. 
Sadly that quote was missing from this morning's Sun newspaper. 

Anyway goid support today they deserved better on the park.


----------



## Spoony

gally said:


> I think it's a bit daft to say Celtic fans shouldn't talk about it. By your own admission it's a massive talking point involving a massive club.
> 
> Lets cut Lennon some slack and maybe read the story instead of the back page.
> He never once said he wanted the titles stripped from Rangers. Utterly ridiculous. The only people trying to incite a riot today and last season are Scotland's papers. Shameful reporting.
> 
> 2 Celtic people have commented. Lawell and Lennon. That's it. Lennon is his interview even said he had spoken to Mcoist and he felt for him.
> Sadly that quote was missing from this morning's Sun newspaper.
> 
> Anyway goid support today they deserved better on the park.


Kev I never said Lennon said he wanted titles stripped I said Celtic fans, have you heard the phone ins recently? Some absolute ridiculous callers. And we have that on both sides. I can't believe fans are so delusional.

I don't read any red tops - in fact I don't bother with newspapers really. Reporting on Scottish football has been sensationalised for a long time now, and I don't believe a word of it. I can't believe people make a living (and a good one too I'll bet) out of making up non storys and twisting whatss been said to make it sound malicious.

Either side of the divide you sit on its plain to see that this is a sad day for Scottish football - and to be honest I thought we were on the up as a footballing nation. There's something like a 5 season 50m TV deal hanging in the balance too, that could cripple smaller teams - I'll bet teams like Ross County budget that money in if they are looking like they are going up.

I watch 2nd division football too not just Rangers, and it really hammers home that we need to do better. There is no reason we can't as a nation have a better standard of football, we just need to know how to train our youths better and to nurture talent not waste it. Arguably Celtic have been the best at that in recent years, so in terms of young scots lads - long may that continue.

No-one other than Whyte knows the outcome of Rangers, he isn't showing the full picture to anyone, I'd be surprised if the administrators know it all. As for the 24m from ticketus - thats a worry. I suspect Whytes end game is liquidation in his plan. Secure 24m on future season tickets - liquidate the club = no season tickets = no repayments. Make no mistake, forget about the players, forget about the coaching staff, there are a lot of hard working Scottish people working for Rangers that will barely be sleeping at night for fear of waking up unemployed, these people have families to feed and mortgages to pay, and thats what makes me most depressed, if Whytes came with a plan to screw us over fine, but screwing these people over too. Shocking imho. Maybe we should cost cut by not giving players cars and ridiculous wages.
Forget how much Rangers generate for the economy, the old firm games must generate that ten fold.

I don't agree that the government should be involved - nothing to do with them imho. Murray has taken us down this road so we must fix it ourselves.

Today was a serious support and serious atmosphere, wither the players couldn't cope with it or they've already been told who is going. As for the league, it's over - and to be honest the gulf in quality on the park between the OF I think it was over anyways for what its worth.

I would never wish this upon Celtic so I loathe to see "fans" wishing it upon us. As for the Jelly and Ice cream - if the connotations of that are what I reckon - that is also ridiculous.

Bit of a rant really so I do apologise. But these are dark times, not just for Rangers but for Scottish football. I for one wouldn't like to see our proud footballing nation go down the toilet.


----------



## Clark @ PB

Strong stories circulating that we'll be out of administration on Tuesday. Chuck Norris is demanding it.


----------



## Spoony

Clark @ PB said:


> Strong stories circulating that we'll be out of administration on Tuesday. Chuck Norris is demanding it.


Haven't heard anything like that myself. Unfortunately I reckon that the admin will last a lot longer. There are many financial skeletons in the closets and trophy cabinets I sense.


----------



## Clark @ PB

As crazy as it sounds,I'm sort of relieved it's here. It's the only way we were going to get any transparacy and with hopefully only one or two more steps backwards at most then we can start to go forward with a much stronger foundation again.


----------



## gally

Party at Easter Road incase anyone fancies it... :lol:


----------



## Spoony

You's just had to go one goal better lol 

Its a sad downfall for hibs, I know a few hibs fans and I feel for them. They were a promising looking team a few seasons back and they've been decimated.


----------



## gerz1873

I forget what it's like not to be champions 
Ceptic fans know more about it than us 😃 lots more practice than us bears


----------



## gally

Spoony said:


> You's just had to go one goal better lol
> 
> Its a sad downfall for hibs, I know a few hibs fans and I feel for them. They were a promising looking team a few seasons back and they've been decimated.


I'm friends with 3 season ticket holders. They keep saying they're just lucky Dunfermline are in the league. Just seems like a team of also rans, no real quality anywhere on the park. Very poor.



gerz1873 said:


> I forget what it's like not to be champions
> Ceptic fans know more about it than us 😃 lots more practice than us bears


Indeed, we need to make the most of, doesn't happen very often.


----------



## baz8400

gally said:


> I'm friends with 3 season ticket holders. They keep saying they're just lucky Dunfermline are in the league. Just seems like a team of also rans, no real quality anywhere on the park. Very poor.


yep were just lucky hibs are in the league were both utter gash


----------



## gally

:lol: See you in the morning Baz.


----------



## Louise

We need a decent kick up the rear and quick!!


----------



## wedgie

18 domistic wins in a row and yet the press still mention the 10 point deduction...

This is from a team that was 15 points behind, so if we win the league this year it has been earned, and not given to us due to whats happening at ibrox

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


----------



## walker1967

This has creeped up in a few of the forums think it originated on follow follow or vanguard bears

Quote:

"I heard earlier tonight that the five-year contracts signed by the likes of Whittaker and McGregor are with the parent company, Rangers FC Group (ex-Wavetower) not RFC PLC.
If true, that would break SPL rules on third-party ownership.
And potentially mean that Rangers would lose every point they've won this season with "unregistered" players in their team. Like . . . every one of them. 
Which would put them on -10 points. "

Just rumours but with all thats going on there it honestly wouldn't surprise me


----------



## bigslippy

wedgie said:


> 18 domistic wins in a row and yet the press still mention the 10 point deduction...
> 
> This is from a team that was 15 points behind, so if we win the league this year it has been earned, and not given to us due to whats happening at ibrox
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


18 wins in a row is a fantastic run ... no doubt about it , however as much as the 10 point deduction is mentioned , we get reminded that celtic were 15 points behind without mention of the 2 games in hand they had and to be fair , celtic had more games left in the league to catch up without the uncertainty surrounding the club which could affect the players future . Now Rangers have been no great shakes for many weeks now , however I'm sure the players are affected by all that has been going on at the club before it all became public.

So , yes , celtic are showing the form that wins leagues , but what's happening at Rangers certainly isn't helping them retain the league


----------



## gally

Of course not. A lot of pundits did say Celtic would probably have went on and won the league with the momentum they had but you can't say that for sure, anything could have happened. In this case it's just made it a little easier and earlier.

No one can complain though and we've been fantastic recently.


----------



## Shug

walker1967 said:


> This has creeped up in a few of the forums think it originated on follow follow or vanguard bears
> 
> Quote:
> 
> "I heard earlier tonight that the five-year contracts signed by the likes of Whittaker and McGregor are with the parent company, Rangers FC Group (ex-Wavetower) not RFC PLC.
> If true, that would break SPL rules on third-party ownership.
> And potentially mean that Rangers would lose every point they've won this season with "unregistered" players in their team. Like . . . every one of them.
> Which would put them on -10 points. "
> 
> Just rumours but with all thats going on there it honestly wouldn't surprise me


Even if that happened, it'll still be hibs or dunfermline that get relegated :lol:


----------



## Grizzle

walker1967 said:


> This has creeped up in a few of the forums think it originated on follow follow or vanguard bears
> 
> Quote:
> 
> "I heard earlier tonight that the five-year contracts signed by the likes of Whittaker and McGregor are with the parent company, Rangers FC Group (ex-Wavetower) not RFC PLC.
> If true, that would break SPL rules on third-party ownership.
> And potentially mean that Rangers would lose every point they've won this season with "unregistered" players in their team. Like . . . every one of them.
> Which would put them on -10 points. "
> 
> Just rumours but with all thats going on there it honestly wouldn't surprise me


You septic fans love a good fecking rumour eh.


----------



## gally

Non story. Things will all come out. I'm fed up with speculation etc. At keast the fans will have answers soon which is the main thing in the God awful mess.

Remember the sweep sweep a few pages back? Just wondering what people though of the singing and chanting at the weekend?

And if you thought there were any offensive singing at Easter Road yesterday could you point out what the songs/chants were.

I have to say after reading this... http://t.co/iEQ8iGcQ No wonder people don't have sympathy for Rangers. People living in the stone age. So sad imo.


----------



## Clark @ PB

Not that it really matters now but celtic have been February champions the last few seasons and yet still failed to win the league so if we hadn't have had the 10 points deducted you just never know. We lost a sizeable lead so it goes without saying it could have happened the other way around with 2 OF games still to play.

I'll just be happy with 2nd place now as Motherwell could start to gain a bit more momentum now.


----------



## gerz1873

Re: the sweep sweep are you deaf to the pro ira crap that was sung at Tynecastle and Inverness recently? I could give other examples or are you as selective as bbc Scotland when it comes to singing of this nature? Oh and by the way don't forget that Uefa are starting to have a level playing field as far as sectarian singing is concerned when ceptic get there punishment for 'illict' singing. Both sides have a problem with this kind of thing, it's not a one way street

As for you comment about living in the stone ages look in before you look out. Please stop your pathetic attempts to demonise one side when the other is as bad if not worse


----------



## gally

gerz1873 said:


> Re: the sweep sweep are you deaf to the pro ira crap that was sung at Tynecastle and Inverness to name a few or are you as selective as bbc Scotland when it comes to singing of this nature? Oh and by the way don't forget that Uefa are starting to have a level playing field as far as sectarian singing is concerned when ceptic get there punishment for 'illict' singing. Both sides have a problem with this kind of thing, it's not a one way street
> 
> As for you comment about living in the stone ages look in before you look out. Please stop your pathetic attempts to demonise one side when the other is as bad if not worse


I actually agree, I was just asking a question. I don't doubt there are stupendously stupid people on both sides, but i'm on 3 Celtic Forums and any chat like that recieves an instant ban, yet on that website above it seems it's okay. Encouraged almost.

I just think it's a shame more than anything. Why are people still like that?


----------



## gerz1873

You my friend where asking a loaded question as well you know 
Are you suggesting that in those forums there is no reference to certain derogatory words used for Rangers fans? Once again everyone knows there are problems with both sides re: this type of behaviour but I suggest you are in denial about one side's problems and you make constant reference to one sides failings. Pathetic mate


----------



## gally

I'm just discussing the problems, I think if you re-read my above posts I admitted there are stupid people on boths sides.

Clearly it's impossible to have a reasonable discussion about things, especially when the fans are on the defensive which as I said to Baz this morning is understandable due to them getting it tight from all angles. Like we were last season with Lennon.

I just don't see the need for all the extras that go with it on both sides I might add.

I was just perplexed at why the Rangers fans thought it would be a good idea to use the biggest supported game of the season to peddle their crap with the world watching.

We know our away support are bad for singing, in their defence it's a lot better than it used to be and i'm sure it will continue to get better, for eg I didn't hear any illicit singing yesterday, and there is zero sectarian singing at Celtic Park, that's fact.


----------



## gerz1873

Go home ya ****
Who's the mason in the black 
Dirty orange ******** 
These are now non sectarian chants and not chanted or sung at leggo land ?
You have me in stitches mate


----------



## gally

I must be honest i've never heard mason in the Black in years. Not since I had a season ticket actually.

Never heard dirty orange anything ever inside the stadium. It would be punished if it was sang.

I believe the reason they chant "huns" as they don't think of it as a sectarian chant. I don't actually know the ins and outs of the word but we've never been brought to task over it yet the IRA stuff obviously was punished.

Hun is used quite often on forums etc but I don't believe it's thought of as sectarian etc as it has no religous connotations.


----------



## gally

I had a lol at this...


----------



## bigslippy

lol quite good ..... strange how the top 4 in the league pans out ....from 4th 
to 1st

Hearts 
Motherwell
Rangers
Celic

:doublesho


----------



## gerz1873

Gally I cannot take you seriously when all you do is deny the obvious just as well as Uefa think differently I suppose 👍


----------



## walker1967

Grizzle said:


> You septic fans love a good fecking rumour eh.


Any rumour to do with the demise of you lot is worth a listen haha


----------



## Spoony

gally said:


> I must be honest i've never heard mason in the Black in years. Not since I had a season ticket actually.
> 
> Never heard dirty orange anything ever inside the stadium. It would be punished if it was sang.
> 
> I believe the reason they chant "huns" as they don't think of it as a sectarian chant. I don't actually know the ins and outs of the word but we've never been brought to task over it yet the IRA stuff obviously was punished.
> 
> Hun is used quite often on forums etc but I don't believe it's thought of as sectarian etc as it has no religous connotations.


Kev mate Hun is as sectarian as the word F****n and rangers were brought to task over that.

I'd rather folk just concentrated on football rather than the nonsense and hatred, I hope we can leave it behind one day.


----------



## Grizzle

walker1967 said:


> Any rumour to do with the demise of you lot is worth a listen haha


Your very bitter, could quite happily add you to my blocked list to be fair.


----------



## walker1967

Grizzle said:


> Your very bitter, could quite happily add you to my blocked list to be fair.


Awkk grow up :lol: it's a bit of banter, if your that easily offended feel free to "block" me, its sour grapes on your end... Lighten up !!


----------



## Shug

Heard a rumour that some football was being played last night. Anyone confirm?


----------



## Bratwurst

Apparently Mulgrew's goal was good.

Apparently now he's also one of the best in Britain.


----------



## Keith_sir

wee_green_mini said:


> Apparently now he's also one of the best in Britain.


Up there with Bartley


----------



## baz8400

wee_green_mini said:


> Apparently Mulgrew's goal was good.
> 
> Apparently now he's also one of the best in Britain.


you could put big daddy up against the dunfermline defence this year and he would be made to look quite nimble and skillful


----------



## RRobert

I apologise unreservedly for a non football post but I cannot let it slide.



gally said:


> I believe the reason they chant "huns" as they don't think of it as a sectarian chant. I don't actually know the ins and outs of the word but we've never been brought to task over it yet the IRA stuff obviously was punished.
> 
> Hun is used quite often on forums etc but I don't believe it's thought of as sectarian etc as it has no religous connotations.


So the defence is ignorance ? Really , you think that people who use that term dont know its sectarian? I would suggest they know exactly what connotations These people just havent stumbled across out put from nil by mouth ....

"Offensive sectarian language is*still used in Scotland on a daily basis, with abusive terms such as &#147;Hun&#148; and &#147;Orange bNastard&#148; being used negatively*against Protestants (or those perceived to be) "

By stated case : In October 2008 Celtic fan Michael Devlin was convicted of religiously aggravated breach of the peace for wearing a T-shirt which bore a derogatory expression containing the word "hun".

RELIGIOUSLY AGGRAVATED

All these people have failed to notice any of that?

Question. Do you think it is a sectarian insult?

Don't tell me it means Rangers fan as it is sung towards Motherwell fans , hearts fans too.


----------



## Chuffy

Anyone see big Higdon's overhead kick against Hibs last night? t'was a belter!


----------



## spitfire

SUFTC :thumb:


----------



## Bratwurst

What's that?


----------



## Mick

spitfire said:


> SUFTC :thumb:


lost me as well . . a search says stand up for the champions?


----------



## Bratwurst

Aah... Rangers. Good. They're my favourite.


----------



## Mick

wee_green_mini said:


> Aah... Rangers. Good. They're my favourite.


boooo  :lol: says me who has literally ZERO interest in football, couldnt tell you when the next game is on. . .ignorance is bliss


----------



## Bratwurst

I just read that the admins have sorted out the cops money problem, so there's no risk now of them calling matches off in the near future.


----------



## gally

Weird that it was the Police that were in the papaer and news today moaning that they hadn't been paid.

I've no idea where the money is coming from but it's usually a fire sale come administration and really to me it just looks like business as usual.


----------



## Bratwurst

House (the heed plod) is a Celtic man, that's why


----------



## Bratwurst

That's maybe not true... I just thought I'd stir it for a second. :lol:

Since he's English, he probably couldn't give two *****.


----------



## gally

Lols! **** the English... oh wait... too far! :lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

Am I right in saying that if the Well win against Celtic, they would then be in second place?


----------



## Spoony

wee_green_mini said:


> I just read that the admins have sorted out the cops money problem, so there's no risk now of them calling matches off in the near future.


Nah it's not like that due to the nature of the debt. Ticketus debt isn't yet debt, hmrc was in dispute (wee tax case) wasn't yet debt, big tax case wasn't yet debt. Whyte has been coy and done what he could to ensure admin IMHO

We've still got cash flow coming in so I don't see why it wouldn't be BAU for the small remainder of the season. Plus can't have a fire sale when the window is shut. Also players have allegedly said they'd play for free till end of admin or take cuts.


----------



## detaillover

This should be renamed the celtic and rangers thread lol not the spl lol.... no-ones talking about football lol. Anyone see higdons overhead belter the other night? or the game at all it was superb. Dundee united are back on form too.... not that im trying to change the subject back to football or anything lol


----------



## gally

wee_green_mini said:


> Am I right in saying that if the Well win against Celtic, they would then be in second place?


The need to win 26-0.

Our whole team is suddenly feeling not well... :lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

OK, a ten-spot on 26-0 down the bettin shop then


----------



## bigslippy

Is it today we should find out about any player/staff redundancies at Ibrox?


----------



## Bratwurst

I think it's tomorrow bigslippy.

Whenever it is, I hope as many people as possible can keep their jobs.


----------



## bigslippy

So frustrating .... worse for those involved.... after one of the best performances of the season last sunday too:wall:


----------



## Bratwurst

Yeah, they were very good.

I got the feeling that a few of the players got a run-out because Ally has a feeling they'll be losing their jobs. Little, Celik, Perry, Broadfoot and Kerkar for example. Not real first team players usually, and also no real resale value in them 

Found this bigslippy - it's saying today or tomorrow.. D-day for Gers


----------



## Bratwurst

It's a very, very bad day for Rangers


----------



## gally

I hate to see people losing their jobs in those circumstances, especially when it stems from someone else's failures. 

It's the young guys especially and of course the background staff. How many young players have been good enough and ended up brickies etc..


----------



## Bratwurst

It's sickening that Whyte is nowhere to be seen while this happens. I hope the money-men get back what he has effectively stolen and we never hear or see the wee 5hite ever again. A shift in BarL will suit him nicely.


----------



## Bratwurst

Decision postponed until Friday or later


----------



## Bratwurst

Rangers' cheating goes that far back, that the Battle of the Boyne has now been awarded to King James.


----------



## gally

Lols! :lol:

Oh dear. I have to say this is the worst administration of all time!



> When Motherwell moved into administration in 2002, 19 players were made redundant within one week.
> At Dundee, 18 months ago, the decision was made on the first day. Three weeks on from Rangers moving into administration, the expectation is that players and staff will be released today.
> 
> The delay is a reflection of the idiosyncratic nature of insolvency events in football, although the case of Rangers seems uncommon even by those standards.


http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/quick-redundancies-are-brutal-but-also-fairer.16945235


----------



## Bratwurst

I think there's more going on than the doom-wishers and the wee folk who sift through looking for muck to spread all know. The admins are being paid to sort it, and I'm sure that if they do they make more cash themselves, so they must be planning something or they wouldn't be doing it the way they're doing it.


----------



## *Das*

wee_green_mini said:


> It's sickening that Whyte is nowhere to be seen while this happens. I hope the money-men get back what he has effectively stolen and we never hear or see the wee 5hite ever again. A shift in BarL will suit him nicely.


But this has all been brought about due to Mr Murray has it not? Mr Whyte will also no doubt be wishing he had never set eyes on the club too. A friend of mine was mumping and moaning about Mr Murray writing huge cheques in years gone bye. However they quickly shut up shop when it was pointed out that they were not complaining when Rangers were signing these huge cheques and winning 9 in a row. Sorry you cant have your cake and eat it too. Rangers, Livi, Dundee, Gretna, nearly Celtic too. Everyone complains about falling revenue but forget that its all due to the bank in the long run. Most forget that the days of huge spending at Rangers was not due to Murray, or Souness, but due to the Heysel Stadium disaster when English clubs were banned from European football, and English players looked to Scotland to play European football.


----------



## wedgie

So now liverpool fans are getting pulled into the reasons why rangers are going to the wall ?

When celtic nearly went out of buisness it was all put down to the board at the time, but being a brittish club, with rangers its not just their fault 

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


----------



## Bratwurst

DasArab said:


> But this has all been brought about due to Mr Murray has it not? Mr Whyte will also no doubt be wishing he had never set eyes on the club too. A friend of mine was mumping and moaning about Mr Murray writing huge cheques in years gone bye. However they quickly shut up shop when it was pointed out that they were not complaining when Rangers were signing these huge cheques and winning 9 in a row. Sorry you cant have your cake and eat it too. Rangers, Livi, Dundee, Gretna, nearly Celtic too. Everyone complains about falling revenue but forget that its all due to the bank in the long run. Most forget that the days of huge spending at Rangers was not due to Murray, or Souness, but due to the Heysel Stadium disaster when English clubs were banned from European football, and English players looked to Scotland to play European football.


I was only saying it's poor that Whyte's not even answering questions. Still.
But since you asked, no it's not all Murray's fault IMO. Yes he ran up the debt, but remember that he had made great strides in reducing it and almost had us back on an even keel. Murray was forced to sell the club at this point. He was told by Lloyds to sell and do it quick. When Whyte arrived on the scene Lloyds gave him next to no time to check him out and basically forced the deal through. All the while, the wonderful Scottish press are bumming up Whyte to be some billionaire who's coming in to save us. Murray was duped, as all Gers fans were by Whyte, who caught Rangers as a company at their weakest when Lloyds were threatening closure. Is it Murray's fault that Whyte colluded with his lawyer pal to leg it with some loot? Is it Murray's fault that Whyte somehow secured the finance on future ticket sales? Is it Murray's fault that Whyte hasn't been paying paye and nic?
The whole thing is a total shambles, with a load of different bodies to blame.


----------



## gally

Big day. Seems it's no problem at all to save 1 million a month. Everything is rosy again by the looks of it.

Next thing you know the big signings will be flying in on private jets...


----------



## Spoony

Drove past Auchenhowie just there it's a hive of activity. More satellite dishes than NASA


----------



## Bratwurst

Spoony said:


> More satellite dishes than NASA


:lol::lol:


----------



## *Das*

wee_green_mini said:


> I was only saying it's poor that Whyte's not even answering questions. Still.
> But since you asked, no it's not all Murray's fault IMO. Yes he ran up the debt, but remember that he had made great strides in reducing it and almost had us back on an even keel. Murray was forced to sell the club at this point. He was told by Lloyds to sell and do it quick. When Whyte arrived on the scene Lloyds gave him next to no time to check him out and basically forced the deal through. All the while, the wonderful Scottish press are bumming up Whyte to be some billionaire who's coming in to save us. Murray was duped, as all Gers fans were by Whyte, who caught Rangers as a company at their weakest when Lloyds were threatening closure. Is it Murray's fault that Whyte colluded with his lawyer pal to leg it with some loot? Is it Murray's fault that Whyte somehow secured the finance on future ticket sales? Is it Murray's fault that Whyte hasn't been paying paye and nic?
> The whole thing is a total shambles, with a load of different bodies to blame.


I just wonder how many other Chief Exec's are sitting there sh*tting themselves wondering if they are next? Utd have made good roads into reducing our debt, £3.8m after the £2m Goodwillie sale, of which the bank has taken the lot. Hopefully another £2m for Russell and maybe more for Mackay-Stevens.


----------



## Bratwurst

Most of them probably


----------



## bigslippy

7 interested parties in purchasing the club , Brian kennedy had meeting with the admins on Wednesday ..... always a little hope


----------



## gerz1873

Encouraged today with the developments at the Rangers 😃
Not out of the woods by a long way but there is hope after just about the worst time in Rangers history excluding the disasters 
Absent friends never forgotten


----------



## Edi1011

bigslippy said:


> 7 interested parties in purchasing the club , Brian kennedy had meeting with the admins on Wednesday ..... always a little hope


Funny how these 7 different groups never came forward when David Murray was desperate to sell.................might not have ended up with the Walter Mitty Whyte who screwed you


----------



## gerz1873

Well done Killie
You deserved the win :thumb:
:wave: Treble


----------



## Spoony

Was a good cup final today, I thought it was a close game. Cammy Bell was outstanding, unbelievable keeper.


----------



## billyp

Spoony said:


> Was a good cup final today, I thought it was a close game. Cammy Bell was outstanding, unbelievable keeper.


Some class keeping today, killie deserved the win imo, and can't see what lennons on about with stonewall penalty, no contact shown on tv


----------



## Spoony

Lets keep this friendly gents,

Here's the penalty incident:









No contact IMHO

And lets put this game in to perspective, Liam Kelly's father died of a heart attack he had on full time. This is going to be remembered as one of the worst days by many of the Killie players for that reason, sometimes the football doesn't matter.


----------



## RRobert

I'll try lighten the mood a bit









:lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

Such a delicious taste

yum


----------



## gerz1873

Highlights of the cup final on bbc2 for anybody interested


----------



## Spoony

For the collum haters, he denied a lee Wallace goal against Celtic.


----------



## Mick

Can everyone take a read of the thread title, this is an *SPL* thread.

Im not going to single anyone out for this, as in truth there is more than one of you at it (and you know who you are) but if you cant coincide in here peacefully without personal insults and sniping you WILL be removed from this section or banned.

I think this thread needs a bit of downtime for some of you fellas to think on it, its only a game at the end of the day so there no need to be taking it to this kind of personal level IMO. cant we all just get along as whats been going on in here today goes a fair bit beyond some friendly banter.


----------



## Mick

Right, reopened again. Can we all play nice in here now, and leave the derogatory comments and personal insults at the door please :thumb:

It's only a game after all :wave:


----------



## Grizzle

Wooossaaa


----------



## stevief

Anyone going to the old firm this sunday?

I'll be working it unfortunately, hopefully get stationed where I can watch though!


----------



## Bratwurst

Telly for me. I'm going to go against common sense and say (even though our form is pi55 poor) I think the gers will win it. Can't have that green mob tying up the league at our place.


----------



## bigslippy

Maybe Anthony Stokes can stand on a table and do his David Haye moment showing us his scars from the tackle on Sunday:lol:


----------



## gally

wee_green_mini said:


> Telly for me. I'm going to go against common sense and say (even though our form is pi55 poor) I think the gers will win it. Can't have that green mob tying up the league at our place.


My boss offered me a ticket with a work colleague. Sitting in the posh seats in the main stand. I said yes but then I changed my mind. I just couldn't do it.

I'd also rather a Rangers fan got the ticket, regardless of the score it will be some spectacle on Sunday. Awash with Union Jacks I here.

Not sure on the score. It's the first game in a very long time I haven't felt nervous for a few days before. It's hardly meaningless but at least it's not swinging the league or anything. My heart couldn't handle that! :doublesho

F1 in the morning then straight into the football Dennis! :lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

All through a haze of Stella past and present


----------



## gally

Lovely! I'll be thinking of you!

Must get to Tesco!


----------



## gally

http://celtictaxcase.wordpress.com/

Read this, it's actually brilliant!



> Q. Are Celtic guilty of this? When is the bill likely to land at Celtic Park?
> 
> A. In all honesty at the moment we don't know but the chances are they are maybe guilty.


FPMSL! They are maybe guilty! Brilliant work.


----------



## RRobert

PS: Neil lemon, you are, as usual a disgrace


----------



## wedgie

Does anyone know what he got his marching orders for? Sky missed it

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


----------



## davec

> Does anyone know what he got his marching orders for? Sky missed it


according to the man himself on a radio interview, he spoke very politely to the ref at halftime, never swore, never raised a finger or anything and the ref sent him to the stand. every story has 2 sides tho!!

3 players sent off, 1 manager sent to the stand and the usual boot the ball up in the air style. and this is meant to be the pinnacle of our season.


----------



## Bratwurst

Well I loved it the way it was


----------



## gally

Sorry missed this earlier boys. 

Congratulations to Rangers. By and far the better team on the day. I do believe we could have won with 11 men even at 1 nil down but we let ourselves down in that department. 

Until the next time then. Won't be long away I imagine. 

Hi Dennis! :lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

Hello Kevin :wave:


----------



## Grizzle

Found this interesting..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17506671

Apparently the first tackle was never a sending off??!!

Was he watching the same game as several million people were??, he was awarded something against his team and went in a huff, apparently the cup final last week he done the same hounded the ref then got a letter from the SFA about his comments.

recurring theme here...

Lemon doesnt take defeat well at all!!, yeh no one likes to lose but he's looking for excuses to blame others rather than him and his team, yet when they are winning no one is allowed to say a single bad word against him or his team.


----------



## Bratwurst

Always cheated, never defeated.


----------



## Shug

I was kinda glad rangers won. Not because I like one side of the old firm more than the other. In fact I harbour the same level of animosity towards both of them. 
But, pending dundees result midweek, it gives county the chance to win their title before celtic


----------



## gerz1873

Well done Rangers players yesterday 
Great performance pity the other team and their manager couldn't keep their discipline as we could have had a better spectacle 
It's been a long tough season and it's a wee bit of joy for us bears to enjoy


----------



## gally

The discipline thing i'm not sure about, the cha thing wasn't a discipline problem.

Bearing in mind Rangers were on Saturday second bottom of the discipline table and Celtic are top I think that's a little unfair.

The Wanyama tackle wasn't great but it wasn't leg breaking, I think he was almost scared of getting hurt but he wasn't out to injure Whitaker, his feet were plated, there just happened to be 2 of them! :lol:

Last game this didn't even receive a card...


----------



## mystery1

gally said:


> The discipline thing i'm not sure about, the cha thing wasn't a discipline problem.
> 
> Bearing in mind Rangers were on Saturday second bottom of the discipline table and Celtic are top I think that's a little unfair.
> 
> The Wanyama tackle wasn't great but it wasn't leg breaking, I think he was almost scared of getting hurt but he wasn't out to injure Whitaker, his feet were plated, there just happened to be 2 of them! :lol:
> 
> Last game this didn't even receive a card...


Wanyama had his feet in the air, so i can see why the ref on only 1 viewing sent him off. However by the time he was near him his studs were facing down and he didn't even reach him. Take a look at Whittaker and where his right foot goes.

Having said that, disappointment is temporary, liquidation is permanent.


----------



## gally

Indeed ate, Wanyama's was a sending off, it's a simple rule, 2 feet and you're off no matter where the ball or player is.

Cha's was maybe not as clear cut but poor positioning cost him there so no complaints from me.

I'd maybe be more upset if we weren't 18 points clear.


----------



## Clark @ PB

Just been sent this, I've never played COD but still found it hilarious :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sI9k23RD3sc#


----------



## gerz1873

When I was talking about discipline I meant keeping 11 players on the pitch which in old firm games is easier said than done. Discipline to me is not getting into situations where you give the referee a decision to make ie yellow or red card 
And if my manager got into a position where he was in the stand or where ever watching the 2nd half when his team were already 1-0 and a man down I would be disappointed with him
Btw the tackle you show big Jig won the ball first and then came the contact you show . Remember Stokes tackle on Papac in the first couple of minutes?? :doublesho


----------



## bigslippy

mystery1 said:


> Wanyama had his feet in the air, so i can see why the ref on only 1 viewing sent him off. However by the time he was near him his studs were facing down and he didn't even reach him. Take a look at Whittaker and where his right foot goes.
> 
> Having said that, disappointment is temporary, liquidation is permanent.


2 things

1) Which Celic player tackled Kayal from behind in that pic?

2) "disappointment is temporary " ? 3 years isn't temporary :lol: and this "liquidation" nonsense , Scottish football has little appeal when it's a 2 horse race , what's it gonna be with 1? Honestly , wake up!


----------



## RRobert

Some short memories re liquidation and football clubs. A wee search will find u this......."the Bank of Scotland informed Celtic that it was calling in the receivers on 3 March 1994 as a result of the club exceeding a £5 million overdraft. However, expatriate businessman Fergus McCann wrested control of the club, and ousted the family dynasties which had controlled Celtic since its foundation. According to media reports, McCann took over the club minutes before it was to be declared bankrupt.[10] McCann reconstituted the club business as a public limited company - *Celtic PLC *"

Born 1888, not the celtic we watched get pumped on Sunday!

RFC Liquidation in your dreams.


----------



## RRobert

two articles about the same person, that fantastic sport Neil Lemon. Both different.

click here for Scotsman Neil Lemon article

And from Celtic Research
Love the logic here 
"Celtic revealed yesterday that it was their security people who advised Lennon that he could not sit in the Ibrox directors' box, and Rangers confirmed that they had offered Lennon a seat there after Murray's sanction against the Celtic manager. However, what security adviser worth his salt would not have come to the same conclusion?

This is the man who was attacked by a Heart of Midlothian fan last May while doing his job on the touchline. "

That's the same as saying , I'm allergic to peanuts so I'd never eat garden peas as they are pretty much the same idea.


----------



## mystery1

bigslippy said:


> 2 things
> 
> 2) and this "liquidation" nonsense , Scottish football has little appeal when it's a 2 horse race , what's it gonna be with 1? Honestly , wake up!


What has the state of football in Scotland got to do with whether or not your club survives ? What have Celtic got to do with your problems ?

Celtic may have changed name when the most successful football club flotation in British football occurred but a no time did they liquidate or go in to administration. They did exceed the overdraft but also did pay the bills.


----------



## davec

has anyone noticed the premiership chat has dried up!!! 
why the **** would the premiership want these clubs anyway?


----------



## RRobert

mystery1 said:


> Having said that, disappointment is temporary, liquidation is permanent.


Fairly sure you were the one who mentioned liquidation ( a clear reference to rangers ) So It was gentle reminder to you that your own club was minutes away from liquidation.

Despite what you may hope and wish for in private or in public , along with the majority of non rangers fans, the club will not fall into liquidation. And, when liquidation doesn't happen, you can blame the 'establishment' for saving them. :wave:

So it's a win win for you.


----------



## RRobert

Andy Walker ( celtic legend ) misleads a nation of tv viewers by wrongly stating Rangers FC stopped Neil Lennon sitting in the Main stand at Ibrox -






Thanks for your input Andy :wave:


----------



## RRobert

seriously , are they no just picking on this guy now or what?

Neil lemons treble


----------



## Bratwurst

Fully deserved


----------



## Kerr

It's been a really horrible football season. The amount of bile getting thrown about is a bit much. 

Rangers won on Sunday as they were the best team on the day. 

Celtic were going to win the title even if Rangers didn't go into administration. Anyone saying otherwise would be more than hopeful. 

Celtic and Rangers both need each other and Scottish football needs them too. 

I do wonder when Rangers will manage to recover from their troubles though. Obviously there could be worse to come..

I'm already sick hearing about this "tainted title" and that Celtic have only won because of Rangers troubles. 

On that logic, how many tainted titles did Rangers win when Motherwell,Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen were the nearest challenges because Celtic were in a complete mess? 

Can't have it both ways. 

Can't wait until this season is over but can't see anything closer next year either.


----------



## gerz1873

How do you know they were going to win the league before Rangers went into administration
You probably were saying that for the last 3 seasons when they were leading around January/ February time and Rangers won on each occasion after they bottled it


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> How do you know they were going to win the league before Rangers went into administration
> You probably were saying that for the last 3 seasons when they were leading around January/ February time and Rangers won on each occasion after they bottled it


I'm not wanting to get into this Celtic v. Rangers debate as it always gets messy.

This season has been completely different than previous.

Rangers were grinding out results for a long time this season with the odd good performance. Even when Rangers were miles ahead you could see it was only a matter of time before things changed.

Rangers were falling badly and nothing since then, other than winning on Sunday has suggested otherwise. Rangers have never looked like recovering.

I do hope things get sorted out quickly for the club though. I'm not the person to gloat at others troubles.


----------



## Grizzle

Kerr said:


> Even when Rangers were miles ahead you could see it was only a matter of time before things changed.


Dreamer!



Kerr said:


> I'm not the person to gloat at others troubles.


yeh right, does the pope wear a pokey hat?!


----------



## Kerr

Sigh. 

Enough from me.


----------



## gerz1873

Truth of the matter is we will never know who would have won the title this season anyone who says they know is lying 
This is why this season is so different than any other I have known in following football for 40 odd years 
It's not been won on the field but due to administration and it's affect on the title destination


----------



## gally

Massive day for Rangers today, we'll see who can walk the walk.

Another chance to win the league this weekend. Lets hope we can wrap it up and get it finished with.

Celtic vs Rangers. Sunday April 29. Put it in the diary!


----------



## RRobert

Massive day for Celtic fans today. It will maybe finally sink in that RFC will NOT be liquidated as per their hopes & dreams


----------



## Kerr

RRobert said:


> Massive day for Celtic fans today. It will maybe finally sink in that RFC will NOT be liquidated as per their hopes & dreams


I think it's more important for Rangers fans.

Their club is hanging on the brink and too many are still more concerned with Celtic than their own team.

I don't get that?

As I said before Scottish football needs both of the old firm. If one goes far too much money will be drained out of the game and it's skint enough already.

I'm not sure where your confidence is coming from as liquidation is rumoured to be the plan for some of the bidders.

Nobody would touch the club when Murray wanted to sell and now in a worse position suddenly people do.

There is no point second guessing what's going to happen but most people seem to accept liquidation has a very strong chance of happening.


----------



## RRobert

Kerr said:


> I think it's more important for Rangers fans.
> 
> Their club is hanging on the brink and too many are still more concerned with Celtic than their own team.


LOL   LOL ( for the perma offended, that only means laughing out loud - not the other )

You being ironic ? Most radio phone in, forum, tv, newspaper feedback I hear / read is non-rangers fans ( most of them financial experts and lawyers , or so it'd seem) 
They can't stop talking about rangers.

:wave:


----------



## Kerr

RRobert said:


> LOL   LOL ( for the perma offended, that only means laughing out loud - not the other )
> 
> You being ironic ? Most radio phone in, forum, tv, newspaper feedback I hear / read is non-rangers fans ( most of them financial experts and lawyers , or so it'd seem)
> They can't stop talking about rangers.
> 
> :wave:


Not in the slightest.

It is pretty big news to any Scottish football fan that one of the old firm is in trouble and obviously show an interest.

I did read Rangers media Bears den for a bit to see how things were going but far too much was more concerned about Celtic and fighting with each other.

We don't get the football phone ins up here. Letting people without brains loose on radio was never a good idea.


----------



## RRobert

Kerr said:


> Not in the slightest.


*Where is Gallys post highlighted? Eh? Where? No, you didn't did you? Because he is a Celtic fan posting on a Rangers matter so that's okay?
The usual blue blinkers firmly in position.
Jog. On! *



gally said:


> Massive day for Rangers today, we'll see who can walk the walk.


----------



## Kerr

Is that post inflammatory? 

It is a big day for Rangers, but by the sounds of it still not final. 

I guess he has said something before that the "walk the walk" statement causes offense?


----------



## gally

Steady Robert it's merely a discussion. It's an SPL thread. Maybe Rangers fans shouldn't discuss Celtic winning the league... didn't think so.

I was simply pointing out today was a massive day for Rangers. It is. That's fact. I was looking for some chat with Dennis because he seems the only person who can have a reasonable discussion.


----------



## RRobert

Kerr said:


> Is that post inflammatory?
> 
> It is a big day for Rangers, but by the sounds of it still not final.
> 
> I guess he has said something before that the "walk the walk" statement causes offense?


what are you talking about ? Inflamatory? You are going to have to be a bit more specific with less innuendo whilst remembering I can't read your mind.

The point you are failing to see is, gally opens up with a post about another teams woes before even mentioning his own team are on the verge of winning a title they haven't won in 3 seasons by the way.

Then I clearly make a ironic comment about Celtic and its me you quote for being concerned about Celtic?



gally said:


> Steady Robert it's merely a discussion. It's an SPL thread. Maybe Rangers fans shouldn't discuss Celtic winning the league... didn't think so.


I wasn't aiming any of the retorts at you by the way. But even so........

You can't even see you have just made my point.


----------



## Kerr

You just seem rather upset about posts that don't contain anything to be upset by.


----------



## RRobert

Yup best just ignore my points raised. 

I take acception to the fact you don't see a difference between the gally post (didnt upset me one bit) and mine ( loaded with irony and a wink) You don't get it. It's plain to see.

118118
:thumb: agree to disagree.
x


----------



## gally

Agreed! :lol:


----------



## RRobert

Here you go, get the tongues wagging and the paranoia bubbling


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/187616786039062528


----------



## Bratwurst

Aw come on lads, everything will turn out fine in the end. This is just a small period of uncertainty that the mighty gers are going through. Give us a wee while and normal league winning service will be resumed. This uncertainty has got all you Celtic bhoys getting a wee bit excited about the future. You'll be thinking that you maybe have a few leagues coming up soon but, well I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news for you, when the gers have the good ship steadied we'll be back with a bang and taking no mercy on all you bad wee men who have wished for our demise! Sitting there with your Celtic wallpaper and your toy Hoopy in the corner...
Don't worry, hoopy will keep you company in the long nights in the next few years as you watch the league slip away from you in a cloud of blue and white.
The tax man, he cometh, but so does the future, and it is indeed a lovely shade of the royal blue.
The queen will waive the fine after all, we are the people.
We are not Neil Lennon.


----------



## RRobert

Kerr said:


> There is no point second guessing what's going to happen but most people seem to accept liquidation has a very strong chance of happening.


_*'most people'
*_


----------



## RRobert

Kerr said:


> There is no point second guessing what's going to happen but most people seem to accept liquidation has a very strong chance of happening.


_*'most people'
*_

_"But Duff & Phelps now believes it is possible to come out of administration by the end of the season
We estimate that an exit from administration before the end of the season
It appears that might now be possible through a company voluntary agreement rather than through liquidation and the subsequent formation of a so-called "newco". "_

_"The bids are structured in various ways, but I would describe them as positive and constructive._

Sounds like liquidation to me.


----------



## Kerr

RRobert said:


> _*'most people'
> *_


I think most people accept there is a real and strong chance it could happen.

You are kidding yourself on if you don't see the threat.

I guess that post was ironic again and I've mistaken the irony for being upset again?

Also what happened about agree to disagree in the above post? I guess that's just one way thing when it suits?


----------



## RRobert

You never agreed. Gally did. Jog on


----------



## RRobert

Kerr said:


> I think most people accept there is a real and strong chance it could happen.
> 
> You are kidding yourself on if you don't see the threat.


_*Most people*_ aren't administering Rangers thankfully.

You have there a quote from the administrators seemingly pretty positive , but no , you want to pin your hopes on _*most people*_ .That's fine. Fill your boots.


----------



## Kerr

RRobert said:


> _*Most people*_ aren't administering Rangers thankfully.


Your administrators have said it could happen.

Ally said it could happen.

Potential buyers are rumoured to be planning to liquidate the club.

It is going to need a lot of money to save Rangers.

Years ago when Rangers were in a better position, nobody would touch them.

Now when they are in a really bad position suddenly people want to take control of the club?

Ever thought why?


----------



## RRobert

You keep posting rhetoric without quotes and I'll
Keep posting official press releases

"The bids are structured in various ways, but I would describe them as *positive and constructive*."

Yup. That has liquidation oozing out if it. Your cup is half empty, you're a hand wringer, but we are the people.


----------



## Kerr

RRobert said:


> You keep posting rhetoric without quotes and I'll
> Keep posting official press releases
> 
> "The bids are structured in various ways, but I would describe them as *positive and constructive*."
> 
> Yup. That has liquidation oozing out if it. Your cup is half empty, you're a hand wringer, but we are the people.


Mate you have extracted the information to suit your own point of view. I would quote if I was on pc but I'm not and no matter what said, you'd still be right.

I understand what is being said both ways.

Class mate with the last bit. A true gent always shows his colours. Pretty low when you have to resort to childish name calling.


----------



## gerz1873

Kerr are you Gally in disguise mate :lol:


----------



## RRobert

Kerr said:


> Mate you have extracted the information to suit your own point of view. I would quote if I was on pc but I'm not and no matter what said, you'd still be right.
> 
> I understand what is being said both ways.
> 
> Class mate with the last bit. A true gent always shows his colours. Pretty low when you have to resort to childish name calling.


Of course if you cant evidence anything that suits *your* Point of view just throw a wee huff and attempt the morale high ground. Name calling? You have lost me there. You're offended by what exactly ?

Half a cup? Your hands?

All aboard !! Ding ding !!


----------



## RRobert

Oh , wee ( or is it big ?) Eck chatting up HMRC about Rangers rumours on twitter again. Not the establishment ? Heavens above.

twitter link here


----------



## Kerr

RRobert said:


> Of course if you cant evidence anything that suits *your* Point of view just throw a wee huff and attempt the morale high ground. Name calling? You have lost me there. You're offended by what exactly ?
> 
> Half a cup? Your hands?
> 
> All aboard !! Ding ding !!


I'm not in a huff at all, just really baffled by your ignorance to what has clearly and openly been reported on many occasions.

All I've stated is there is a real and strong chance Rangers could be liquidated. There is nothing incorrect with that statement at all.

No real point of holding a football discussion with the likes of you. Your bitterness clouds all judgement.

I'm not offended. I just find it laughable that grown adults have to resort to name calling during an argument, then try to suggest it's not.

You can't stick to the point in hand.

Lets just move on and leave people to talk about football.


----------



## Bratwurst

Kerr said:


> Lets just move on and leave people to talk about football.


OK, Rangers are great, the rest are all a bit 5hit, Gers fans are all fine upstanding people, We hold the world record, ergo we are the best team in the world.


----------



## Hotchy

wee_green_mini said:


> OK, Rangers are great, the rest are all a bit 5hit, Gers fans are all fine upstanding people, We hold the world record(untill titles stripped for financial doping the game with ebt's), ergo are not the best team in the world.


:lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

How dare you ba5tardise my typings you ruffian you 

:lol:


----------



## RRobert

If you just want to quote the 'childish names' I called you Kerr. There's a wee appology sitting here just waiting for you.


----------



## RRobert

Without being xenophobic, I'd prefer a home nation style consortium to take control.

Rangers CVA & a Singapore Sling


----------



## Bratwurst

Same here, keep us Scottish/British 

Preferably not another Whyte :lol:


----------



## gerz1873

Rangers are the quintessential British club after all so
A British/Scottish owner/s for me too


----------



## RRobert




----------



## Bratwurst

:doublesho Nice banner


----------



## RRobert

110 days ago today.
click here 
"On 5 April 1902, during the 1902 British Home Championship match between Scotland and England, the back of the newly built West Tribune Stand collapsed due to heavy rainfall the previous night. Hundreds of supporters fell up to 40 feet (12 m) to the ground below. 25 people died and 517 were injured.[1]

The stand at the time consisted of wooden terracing supported by a steel girder frame. Following the accident such frameworks were discredited, and replaced throughout the United Kingdom by terracing supported by earthworks or reinforced concrete.

The tragedy occurred after 51 minutes of the match, which was allowed to finish, to avoid supporters exiting en masse crowding the area obstructing rescue work, but was declared void by the two Football Associations. All proceeds of the replayed match at Villa Park, Birmingham on 3 May 1902 went to the disaster fund."


----------



## gally

Ouch... http://www.rangers.co.uk/staticFiles/fe/a8/0,,5~174334,00.pdf



> Rangers administrators have revealed the club owes at least £63m and is facing a further tax bill of up to £75m.
> 
> The full list of creditors and debts owed by the Ibrox club has been set out in the statement of affairs by Duff and Phelps, available here.


Never quite expected it to be that much.


----------



## Bratwurst

£400 an hour for each admin guy :doublesho

£138m? - I've got that stuck down the back of the sofa (and that's just the value of the undies) :lol:


----------



## gally

Don't they owe you money Dennis! I'm thinking about adding myself to the list! :lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

They do. The last pie I had there was rotten man.


----------



## gally

I had a nice HotDog at CP on Sunday.


----------



## Spoony

gally said:


> I had a nice HotDog at CP on Sunday.


I won't lower myself to make a joke of that lol


----------



## Bratwurst

gally said:


> I had a nice HotDog at CP on Sunday.


I prefer pie to sausage  :lol:


----------



## RRobert

Even I don't have that kind of cash just laying around  A few extra tickets for the € lotto draw tonight bears ?


----------



## Spoony

I fear this is going NewCo anyways Dennis.... It's a strange state of affairs at the minute.

A cva at 10p in the pound would be nice too


----------



## Bratwurst

All the businessy stuff totally baffles me Spoony. All's I know is we're rooked and havny got a pot to pi55 in just now. 

The tax-man's uncertainty seems to me to be by far the biggest problem. How can someone plan a buy-over/take-over, but not even know if they're going to be liable for 70m? 

Yes Robert - Euromillions tomorrow - ticket is in the pocket :thumb:

Shame the dudes from Largs that won 180m aren't Gers fans. Bloody tight fisted wallopers need a good shake. 

Shake that walloper :doublesho :lol:


----------



## gally

Loller! I give up now. Boggles my mind. 

What will be will be I guess. There will be a Rangers next season. In what form? I don't think a single person knows... yet.


----------



## Bratwurst

Sums it up nicely I reckon Kevin


----------



## RRobert

Spoony said:


> I fear this is going NewCo anyways Dennis.... It's a strange state of affairs at the minute.
> 
> A cva at 10p in the pound would be nice too


Here you Craigie W, here's your two bob back.









Elizabeth looking majestic as usual on our 10p piece.


----------



## RRobert

Does any one want to guess at the CVA penny/£ Dundee FC paid? Please post your answer below. 

No cheating.


----------



## Bratwurst

Errr 20p ?


----------



## Kerr

It was about 6p or something. 

You can't really compare Dundee to Rangers though. 

It's the administrators job to look after the creditors best interests. 

Dundee had no assets of any value and little access to any cash.


----------



## gally

I thought it was 8P and they probably owed about 10-15m not 75m and rising.


----------



## Bratwurst

The whole system's so Anti-Rangers that they'll probably make us 120p in the £


----------



## gerz1873

Gally show me where Rangers owe £75 million please


----------



## Kerr

wee_green_mini said:


> The whole system's so Anti-Rangers that they'll probably make us 120p in the £


What is anti Rangers about it?

The same system is in place for every company that goes into administration.

It has been the company(Rangers) that has got themselves into this debt and it needs to be sorted.

I can't see what is unfair about paying back your own debt.


----------



## gerz1873

The same system that should provide a cva and almost everyone is happy


----------



## gally

My apologies. The final HMRC bill which is being appealed at the moment could top 75m.

How much they will pay back, if any, is anyone's guess really.


----------



## gerz1873

Thanks Gally


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> The same system that should provide a cva and almost everyone is happy


Yes it should.

But banding about 6p or 10p in the pound in unrealistic.

The administrator supplied a list of creditors adding up to £63m yesterday.

At 10 that is £6.3m.

Is that all Rangers are worth? Wouldn't you think Naysmith and McGregor could be sold for that alone?

Dundee had nothing to give. Players worth nothing stadium and other assets worth peanuts.


----------



## Kerr

gally said:


> My apologies. The final HMRC bill which is being appealed at the moment could top 75m.
> 
> How much they will pay back, if any, is anyone's guess really.


Remember the current administration is not about the big tax case.


----------



## Bratwurst

It was just a fly dig at the powers that be Kerr. That's really what/who I meant by 'the system'. Everyone really.

Why is the tax-man lingering so much?
Why is Lawwell in bed with so many SPL/SFA people?
Why does Lennon get away with things that no-one else does?
Why do the Beeb report and destroy some people and the things they say, yet not even report on other far more newsworthy items which are 'from the other side'
Why do the DR almost feed off and seem to revel in our (assumed) demise?
Why do the Courts and law men seem to favour crimes one way yet not even blink at ones the other way?

I could go on, but can't be ar5ed now, I need the strength in my fingers for later on tonight :doublesho :lol:

The tic have been paranoid for decades, I'm allowed an off day I think.


----------



## Bratwurst

I feel better now that I've got that off my chest 

I hope Killie pump the Tic at the weekend


----------



## gerz1873

The 'normal' percentage in a cva paid to creditors is between 5p and 25p in the pound so if Rangers pay 15p in the £ on debts of say £100m that would be £15m. If Rangers are treated as any other company surely this is highly do- able via a cva ?


----------



## gally

Kerr said:


> Remember the current administration is not about the big tax case.


Of course, it was simply 9million ish that put them into this. If 9million puts you into admin then 143million can't be very good for the future.



wee_green_mini said:


> It was just a fly dig at the powers that be Kerr. That's really what/who I meant by 'the system'. Everyone really.
> 
> Why is the tax-man lingering so much?
> Why is Lawwell in bed with so many SPL/SFA people?
> Why does Lennon get away with things that no-one else does?
> Why do the Beeb report and destroy some people and the things they say, yet not even report on other far more newsworthy items which are 'from the other side'
> Why do the DR almost feed off and seem to revel in our (assumed) demise?
> Why do the Courts and law men seem to favour crimes one way yet not even blink at ones the other way?
> 
> I could go on, but can't be ar5ed now, I need the strength in my fingers for later on tonight :doublesho :lol:
> 
> The tic have been paranoid for decades, I'm allowed an off day I think.


Both sets of fans annoy the hell out of me with paranoia. The amount of abuse journos gets for being fans of one half is riduclous, they can't support both teams you utter retards!

Graeme Spiers admitted years ago that he supported Rangers as a kid and he still receives abuse, from both sides! That's just mental. The Rangers fans still accuse him of being in bed with Celtic. They obviously forgot the trip he took to Mr Murray's home with the rest of the scrap feeders.

He even stated ages ago that he stopped supporting Rangers due to everything that came with it. Some fans are just so mental!

Even if he was still a Rangers fan he's still 100% unbiased.


----------



## Kerr

The press are the press. 

It is big news about Rangers and sadly within some good reporting you will hear even more crap. It has always worked that way. 

The tax man is lingering as Rangers owe them a fortune and potentially a lot more depending on the outcome of the big case. 

If Rangers lose the big case they will not be the last. Quite a few EPL teams reported to.have been doing the same. Obviously Vodafone etc have a case to answer. 

I wasn't really aware of what Lennon has got away with? 

Lawwell is on the SFA board. Not sure what he has done that is so wrong? 

He has made some comments that did upset Rangers fans I do agree. Remember the days when Murray&co used to take cheap shots at Celtic every other week? 

I've no idea what you mean about what goes on in a court of law favouring Celtic. Think we are heading way off football.


----------



## gerz1873

Spiers unbiased lolouder from me 😃


----------



## gally

gerz1873 said:


> Spiers unbiased lolouder from me 😃


Case in point but go for it. Who is he biased for and against?


----------



## gerz1873

Kerr remember when Liewell stated there was no agreement in place for ticket monies paid upfront for the last two Oldfirm derbies 
Iirc Jim Traynor called Liewell a liar and there was no response?
If he was telling the truth why did he go all quiet and not challenge Traynor ?


----------



## gerz1873

I think we both know the answer to your question but only one of us will be honest about the situation with Spiers and his hostility towards one team in Glasgow


----------



## Bratwurst

The press are the press - yes they are. They are quite often complete sacks too. Take the DR today for example... suddenly this supposed debt figure of 134 has now turned itself to 140. Talk about sensationalising things.

What has Lennon got away with? Are you having a laugh? Since he got that job he's been nothing but an utter embarrassment to Celtic. He seems to have licence to say what he wants, when he wants and is rarely properly dealt with. Any other gaffer says anything about officials and they're getting their ar5e felt the next Monday.

Lawwell on the SFA board, yes...

OFFICIAL fans representative Joe O’Rourke says he wished that all the protestants who helped build the Titanic had gone down with her. A day or two later and he is quoted saying he's done nothing wrong.

Imagine for a minute if an official Rangers supporters rep had said it the other way around?...

The outcry would be so fierce that some feet wouldn't even touch the ground on their way out the door or to jail.

And still Mr Lawwell says nothing.

And still nothing happens.

And still he's deemed a suitable man to have on that board


----------



## gally

gerz1873 said:


> Kerr remember when Liewell stated there was no agreement in place for ticket monies paid upfront for the last two Oldfirm derbies
> Iirc Jim Traynor called Liewell a liar and there was no response?
> If he was telling the truth why did he go all quiet and not challenge Traynor ?


Lols, I like how you twisted that one. There was a response, we stopped speaking to them because the paper printed "lies". Then Traynor said he has proof in his office. Strange the proof never made it to the papers or anywhere else.

What do you want me to say. If Traynor had proof that Lawell was lying why not show someone.

I personally couldn't care. It's a game of football. Sadly the press in Scotland need both teams to be against each other to keep their jobs. They can create drama if they so wish, they have the platform.



gerz1873 said:


> I think we both know the answer to your question but only one of us will be honest about the situation with Spiers and his hostility towards one team in Glasgow


You mean towards a team he supports/supported?


----------



## Kerr

Gally beat me to it. 

Lawwell did respond to Traynor and it was Traynor who fell silent when asked to provide his proof.


----------



## gerz1873

He speaks about how he supported the Rangers as a boy and that his family supported the other mob 
He is no friend of the Rangers in anyway shape or form now
I see you couldn't answer why Liewell If telling the truth didn't challenge Traynor and I see how you twisted my question around without an answer lol


----------



## gally

I actually couldn't care. If we renegaded on an agreement it was because you can't pay. You still owe us £40,000 I wouldn't have agreed to it either.

Things might have changed from the agreement date till now. Surely you can't argue with that?


----------



## Bratwurst

What a lively thread this is today


----------



## gally

When you say is no friend now do you mean currently or since the early 2000 years etc?

I mean you must be highly regarded to be invited to Sir David's home and fed wonderful food and wine.


----------



## gerz1873

Love it 
Your club went back on an agreement and you think that's all good. Priceless


----------



## gerz1873

When you say is no friend now do you mean currently or since the early 2000 years etc?

I mean you must be highly regarded to be invited to Sir David's home and fed wonderful food and wine.

Take from my post what you will you don't seem to have a problem with doing exactly that any other time pal
Btw I did say now so don't really l know why you got confused about it


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Love it
> Your club went back on an agreement and you think that's all good. Priceless


Celtic never went back on an agreement according to Lawwell. Just paying Rangers as per the rules.

Traynor made this allegation in the DR and said he had proof.

Lawwell asked for proof of this agreement and got nothing.

Sorry for the observation here, but why dismiss everything negative the press writes about Rangers, but then take it as factual when it is Celtic?


----------



## RRobert

Like moths to the flame.


----------



## gally

I see we've reached an impasse.

You know i'm right with the agreement. Do you not remember the Admin stating how they had to change their terms with the creditors once they came into power at Rangers.

Who gives out credit to a business in administration? Bad business that is it not?

Then again we don't know if there was an agreement. You can't expect people to keep giving out credit when it's in the public domain that you can't pay other clubs, ie Dundee United money that's owed to them. That's ludicrous to think any other way.


----------



## RRobert

Sorry, didn't mean to be moth-ist


----------



## Bratwurst

lol


----------



## gerz1873

Vintage Gally deflect and deny when quizzed about you views 😃


----------



## gally

Superb. We'll leave it there.

Enjoy the weekend boys. Don't party too hard.


----------



## Bratwurst

Gally, you'll know, is it right that the Tic only need 1 point from all the matches left to tie up the league?


----------



## gerz1873

Liked the wee chat today 
Gally enjoy your weekend but what's it like to follow a team that's not the champions you've had more practice than me 😃


----------



## scoobyc

For those that don't want to keep there head in the sand read this 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footba...ossier-read-the-full-document-86908-23815355/

With regards to the previous "agreement" discussed earlier, why would celtic give more money to rangers when they are already owed money with no guarantee of it being repaid?


----------



## gerz1873

Rangers were not in admin at the time of said agreement so unless the other mob knew something no one else did why wouldn't they stick to the agreement ?


----------



## scoobyc

Yes but surely Rangers/any other business going into administration puts all agreements into doubt if asked to pay for something upfront?


----------



## gerz1873

Again mate at the time no admin so IMO your point is mute


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Again mate at the time no admin so IMO your point is mute


Rangers applied for administration mid February.

The ticket money was to be paid in advance of the game on March 25th.

Still no proof of the agreement.

Lawwell's response. http://www.celticfc.net/newsstory?item=2274


----------



## Bratwurst

I can't visit that site, my computer says I might catch something


----------



## Kerr

At the end of the day it's such a trivial amount of money that has no bearing on Rangers' current position. 

I've always thought tickets were paid for after the match and not months before the game.

I've never heard of that and fail to understand why Celtic would make any such agreement to do so. As said before there is still no evidence there even was one. 

No business pays any cash out until as late as possible. 

Jim Traynor made the accusation in the DR and said he had proof. Asked to provide this proof he couldn't. 

On top of this it's very unlikely to see Celtic do Rangers a favour and it would be exactly the same way in return. 

I see Celtic are listed as one of Rangers' creditors.


----------



## gerz1873

Jesus wept
That other mob asked for the Rangers to pay up front then went back on the agreement when it came to them paying up front typical 
Thanks Juan


----------



## Mick

Eventually you lot will learn to co-exist in here, either that or this thread will be deleted permanently.

Why cant you all stick to the known facts instead of spouting rumour and hearsay, and have some grown up discussions on the subject of football rather than allowing it to constantly deteriorate into petty bickering?

What will be will be with the gers, so needless unfounded speculation and rumour-mongering is not going to change anything, or help anyone.

Ill say this now, can we all grow up in here please, if you cant contribute in here without namecalling, or personal insults, please stay out of this thread.

You have ALL been warned, and anyone crossing the line in future WILL recieve a ban over it, as we have frankly got more important things to be doing than babysitting this thread.

Regards

Team DW


----------



## allan1888

To be honest the scotland area of this site was better when this thread was locked. Anyone deciding to look in on this page from anywere else in the world would think we are a bunch of morons and bigots with nothing better to do with our time than discuss crap about football clubs. :wall:.. For the record i am a celtic fan. Do i want rangers to survive ?, of course i do. as much as both sets of fans hate each other most are wise enough to realise that we need both clubs to survive.


----------



## Spoony

Men against boys today, Celtic ran riot.

Also Mick can you clean this thread out mate and get it back on a level footing


----------



## Grizzle

4 years and a hand from the SFA..

Well done.


----------



## GerryH

Hand from the SFA???


----------



## Mick

Spoony said:


> Men against boys today, Celtic ran riot.
> 
> Also Mick can you clean this thread out mate and get it back on a level footing


ill just let it run for now, there so much to sift through, im as well leaving it now. (wont be long till this thread gets put to bed and we can start a 2012-2013 thread anyway really )


----------



## gally

:lol: Oh Griz, I thought it was us that were paranoid!










Today. Is a good day.


----------



## gally




----------



## Kerr

Yeah grats to the hoops. 

Easily the best team in the country this year. 

Bad start but quality shines through.


----------



## Kerr

Well it was a good night tonight. Even the Aberdonians were celebrating tonight.

Fair play to the Rangers supporters who have got behind their team. It is a hard time and those putting bums on seats will help.

You can't let the club go back to the days when only 2000/2500 were turning up 30 years ago.

As I've said before I really hope Rangers pull through this. Scottish football needs the Old Firm no matter what anybody says.

It's the game we all look forward to.

No point mud slinging for what might happen, but it's going to take a serious amount of cash to sort Rangers through a CVA or liquidation.

I'm sure it will happen in time.

Anyways it is getting late. Roll on the cup final and next season!


----------



## Bratwurst

Well done to Celtic!




Only took:
3 years
3 managers
36 players
Rangers to go into administration and 
Rangers to be deducted 10pts.



(a humorous text I thought I'd share)


----------



## gally

I got that one Dennis. 

I did notice however before you won 3 in a row we actually won 3 in a row. 

4 titles each in the last 8 years.


----------



## Bratwurst

Oh aye - nice factoid 

So did you end up well wrecked in the celebrations? That's was a fair old fridgeful of bubbly!


----------



## podgas

Well Done Scott cu soon


----------



## Shug

Kerr said:


> Scottish football needs the Old Firm no matter what anybody says.


Too right. God knows what the rest of scotland would do without the old firm taking all the cash, whining about no competition whilst ruthlessly crushing any, constantly trying to control every part of scottish football and keep it in the dark ages preventing any form of progress whilst desperately trying to leave it and generally acting a bunch of ****s.
Aye, scotland desperately needs that.


----------



## Kerr

Shug said:


> Too right. God knows what the rest of scotland would do without the old firm taking all the cash, whining about no competition whilst ruthlessly crushing any, constantly trying to control every part of scottish football and keep it in the dark ages preventing any form of progress whilst desperately trying to leave it and generally acting a bunch of ****s.
> Aye, scotland desperately needs that.


Everybody keeps knocking the SPL for being a two horse race.

Nobody ever seems to notice that most leagues seem to be a 2 or 3 horse race. Look at the English premier league and the Spanish league both hailed as the best leagues in the world.

Those leagues are completely dominated by just a few teams too.

As for the Old Firm taking most of the cash, do you not think that is deserved as they are the teams who bring the money into football to begin with?

How are the Old Firm stopping your team from coming out of the dark ages?

I fully agree both teams have sections of bad supporters. As do all clubs to be honest.


----------



## Deanoecosse

Shug said:


> Too right. God knows what the rest of scotland would do without the old firm taking all the cash, whining about no competition whilst ruthlessly crushing any, constantly trying to control every part of scottish football and keep it in the dark ages preventing any form of progress whilst desperately trying to leave it and generally acting a bunch of ****s.
> Aye, scotland desperately needs that.


Interesting comment in the Sunday Mail today. One of the sports writers was saying a SPL chairman had told him that financially it would take his club "14 games against Kilmarnock to compensate for one game against Rangers". As a neutral Dundee United fan, I've been as p1ssed off as any other non old firm fan over the years, with the old firm snapping up our best players. However I don't buy into the theory that Scottish football would be better off without Rangers & Septic. Us smaller clubs DO need the money the old firm fans provide and you can guarantee that if Rangers are liquidated and reform as a newco, all the SPL chairmen (while publicly frowning on it), will vote to allow newcoRangers to come straight back to the SPL


----------



## Kerr

A bit uncalled for part of that post. Not following why you would use such a term on an open forum.

I think an edit would be wise as it will cause offence.

Again the Old Firm do buy quite a few players from SPL teams. The teams don't need to sell their players to the Old Firm but it's also revenue the clubs could do with.


----------



## RRobert

I love the same spl news has both CFC & RFC fans crying foul play. Both can't be right ?

Mean while This bam pot appeals to Piers Morgan to decry those bad rangers men. Piers Morgan ?


----------



## Bratwurst

WTF has Piers Morgan got to do with anything? 

2 Wallopers then


----------



## RRobert

Piers is always championing the Spl , never shuts up about Scottish fitba' Oor Piers.


----------



## RRobert

http://www.change.org/petitions/sfa-uefa-fifa-the-governing-body-of-world-football-stop-rangers-football-club-re-entering-the-spl-in-the-event-of-liquidation? 

Now is your chance folks, RFC are on the ropes, if not their knees .


----------



## RRobert

That is all


----------



## GolfFanBoy

:lol:


----------



## Grizzle

That is all.


----------



## *Das*

Sponsored by Tennants, Bottled at Hampden......... Free to a good home 6000 treble winning t shirts and 6000 double winning t shirts never worn.......... anyone for ice cream?


----------



## Grizzle

DasArab said:


> Sponsored by Tennants, Bottled at Hampden......... Free to a good home 6000 treble winning t shirts and 6000 double winning t shirts never worn.......... anyone for ice cream?


i have some jelly, shall we have a party?


----------



## *Das*

Grizzle, im not that kinda guy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Shug

An Edinburgh derby for the final should be pretty good. Hope Strathclyde's finest are ready tho, might get messy whichever way it goes.


----------



## *Das*

Really would make better sense just holding it at Murrayfield, although I do know why it wont.


----------



## gerz1873

An all Edinburgh final will be a great thing for Scottish football imo


----------



## gally

DasArab said:


> Really would make better sense just holding it at Murrayfield, although I do know why it wont.


Agreed mate. Probably a lot less trouble if you have it out the area to be fair. It can get nasty in Edinburgh even though the press would have you believe Glasgow is the hell on earth.

Good luck to both teams in the final. Edinburgh derby should be good.


----------



## Deanoecosse

So, after disgracing himself and his club yet again by his on-pitch pointy finger rant at the referee, Neil Lemon compounds his utter lack of class by his Twitter comment "Feel so sorry for players and fans... *I think it's personal myself*." Is that guy for real? 
Lemon you are an utter disgrace to Scottish football, but more importantly to your own club & fans. "Never defeated, always cheated" copyright Celtic Football club


----------



## RRobert

gerz1873 said:


> An all Edinburgh final will be a great thing for Scottish football imo


Agree.Well done embra.

I'm not fussed who wins it now, but maybe hearts just to perpetuate the Scottish Cup hoodoo for Hibs.


----------



## Dougster




----------



## *Das*

gally said:


> Agreed mate. Probably a lot less trouble if you have it out the area to be fair. It can get nasty in Edinburgh even though the press would have you believe Glasgow is the hell on earth.


Can you imagine 50,000+ fans travelling the M8 on match day? Harthill could be a battle ground. Policing will be a nightmare for Strathclyde too, ok they handle many OF matches a year, but this final will be a total grudge match, with bragging rights for the next century. Would be a whole lot easier to hold it in Edinburgh.



Deanoecosse said:


> So, after disgracing himself and his club yet again by his on-pitch pointy finger rant at the referee, Neil Lemon compounds his utter lack of class by his Twitter comment "Feel so sorry for players and fans... *I think it's personal myself*." Is that guy for real?
> Lemon you are an utter disgrace to Scottish football, but more importantly to your own club & fans. "Never defeated, always cheated" copyright Celtic Football club


You know I honestly think the man needs psychiatric help, I really do.



RRobert said:


> I'm not fussed who wins it now, but maybe hearts just to perpetuate the Scottish Cup hoodoo for Hibs.


Ooooo thats mean, lol. think yourselves lucky, I live with a Hibee, whoz boss is a Jambo, shes not going to get to the final because hes pulled rank and she will have to work now. Think I will more than likely work that day and cover for those who want to go to the game.


----------



## Grizzle




----------



## Bratwurst

Agree totally about Lennon. His behaviour on and off the pitch is an embarrassment to Celtic.

I've got to admit, in some ways I like seeing the clown lose it. You just KNOW it's coming. Any remotely questionable decision and within hours suddenly the world's against him and it's all personal and the leading questions and phrases appear. 

The thing is, he says it's personal... yes Niel it is, hardly anyone likes you, and it's for this exact reason. If you change your ways then folk might see you in a better light, but you just can't help yourself. You shame yourself and your club and wonder why people dislike you. :wall: 

One thing I'd like to point out... just suppose the handball (and it was a handball) had happened in the Hearts box and Lennon/Celtic were denied a penalty, Lennon would also then be going off his nut! You can't have it both ways Lemon, sorry Lennon lol. You'd be more than happy to accept it if it came to you. 

And to think the day before he was in the paper saying how he would conquer Europe. :lol:

Celtic: Not nearly as good as they think they are. :wave:


----------



## Grizzle

Lennon is actually a liability with his anger issues, its a shame as the team to be fair are pretty decent and his ramblings are pushing what the team has done to the back of the drawer.


----------



## RRobert

Alan Thompson
"Whether Hooper was offside or not, it got us back in the game only for a decision to cost us."

That's what you actually said you clown.


----------



## Bratwurst

"Yet again we feel like we've been done," Thompson told Sky Sports News


----------



## RRobert

It's tragic, it truly is. What is Ban Ki-Moon & the U.N doing about this? 
H E E H A W , I'd be on the phone to Rome if it was me.


----------



## mystery1

RRobert said:


> Fairly sure you were the one who mentioned liquidation ( a clear reference to rangers ) So It was gentle reminder to you that your own club was minutes away from liquidation.
> 
> Despite what you may hope and wish for in private or in public , along with the majority of non rangers fans, the club will not fall into liquidation. And, when liquidation doesn't happen, you can blame the 'establishment' for saving them. :wave:
> 
> So it's a win win for you.


http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/303643-blue-knights-withdraw-bid-for-rangers/


----------



## Hotchy

mystery1 said:


> http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/303643-blue-knights-withdraw-bid-for-rangers/


:lol: it seems the blue knights couldnt even afford 500k deposit, atleast ng is putting 20 million of actual money in (tbk were not) and also there striking the same deal with tikitus. Its a shame, really wanted rangers liquidated :lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

Hotchy said:


> Its a shame, really wanted rangers liquidated :lol:


That's nice.

So you want hundreds of people to lose their jobs.

I've said it before on here on this topic... be careful what you wish for... this whole mess Rangers are in could very easily sink numerous clubs in Scotland.

While you might think it's funny to see Rangers sink, you obviously have no concept of 'the big picture' here.

It's narrow-minded stupidity like that that's got a very real chance of destroying not just one club, but several clubs.

I've been living with the risk of redundancy for years now and it's no fun at all. It's a bloody nightmare not knowing if you'll be paid at the end of the month. Every plan in life you have is on hold. The footballers will mostly walk into new jobs, but all the folk behind the scenes must be bricking it.

Funny eh? :wall:


----------



## *Das*

The only shocker from Sunday was that it was Hearts that got the last minute Penalty, when its normally Celtic.



Grizzle said:


> Celtic v Hearts Scottish Cup 2012.wmv - YouTube


52 seconds, brilliant!!!!! :lol:


----------



## RRobert

mystery1 said:


> http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/303643-blue-knights-withdraw-bid-for-rangers/












What's your point caller?


----------



## RRobert

Hotchy said:


> :lol:* it seems the blue knights couldnt even afford 500k deposit*, atleast ng is putting 20 million of actual money in (tbk were not) and also there striking the same deal with tikitus. Its a shame, really wanted rangers liquidated :lol:


You just couldnt be bothered reading this part of TBK statement ?

"During the course of the weekend individuals within the consortium offered to put up the deposit subject to a small number of conditions which were broadly agreed with Duff & Phelps"


----------



## Bratwurst

Does anyone know when we will find out what happens (or doesn't happen) to Lennon at the disciplinary hearing?

Very keen to see how he's dealt with, especially after branding an official 'criminal'.


----------



## Bratwurst

Well I must say, a well deserved victory for Celtic. No complaints at all with the defeat. Well that's wrong, we were pi5h and should have been much better, but you know what I mean. We were roundly beaten on the day, all over the pitch. 

As an aside, I see some Celtic fans have been shaming themselves yet again after some thoroughly disgraceful behaviour (racist abuse of several rangers players, a COFFIN somehow getting into the ground, and what appears to be a machine gun in the air!), yet strangely as time passes they seem to be managing to avoid any real media coverage.

Oh aye, and nice turnout at Hampden! The biggest crowd of the day? (and we weren't even playing lol)


----------



## mystery1

RRobert said:


> Some short memories re liquidation and football clubs. A wee search will find u this......."the Bank of Scotland informed Celtic that it was calling in the receivers on 3 March 1994 as a result of the club exceeding a £5 million overdraft. However, expatriate businessman Fergus McCann wrested control of the club, and ousted the family dynasties which had controlled Celtic since its foundation. According to media reports, McCann took over the club minutes before it was to be declared bankrupt.[10] McCann reconstituted the club business as a public limited company - *Celtic PLC *"
> 
> Born 1888, not the celtic we watched get pumped on Sunday!
> 
> RFC Liquidation in your dreams.


----------



## gally

Straws everywhere?


----------



## Clark @ PB

The company is about to die,the club is not - it will remain the same as it always has.


----------



## Kerr

Clark @ PB said:


> The company is about to die,the club is not - it will remain the same as it always has.


It is the club that is a member of the SPL.

The newco have to reapply to come back in as they don't view it as the same club.

All the assets will be sold off to the highest bidder and all the players are free leave if they don't want to move over to the newco.

Parts of Ibrox are listed so can't be changed so it will always be a football stadium. Who knows what will happen to the rest.

Going into liquidation means you have cut off all responsibility of the past. You can't cut off the bad bits and move on as a newco and pretend all the rest is the same.

There is no legal connection between old and new set ups.

I think we better see what is actually left of Rangers as it is next year.


----------



## Clark @ PB

Yeah very good. I support the club,not the company - does this mean Celtic fans won't be bothered when they next beat us?

Thought so. 

There's already an agenda being set by many that all of a sudden Rangers have lost all their history yada yada. It's nonsense,Juventus,Fiorentina etc have all gone through this and are regarded as the same club with all their history very much in tact.


----------



## Kerr

Clark @ PB said:


> Yeah very good. I support the club,not the company - does this mean Celtic fans won't be bothered when they next beat us?
> 
> Thought so.
> 
> There's already an agenda being set by many that all of a sudden Rangers have lost all their history yada yada. It's nonsense,Juventus,Fiorentina etc have all gone through this and are regarded as the same club with all their history very much in tact.


It is a new company trying to buy what was Rangers.

They have no connections and own nothing that was Rangers even the name is owned by the old company.

The new Rangers will not be shaped by the history of the old Rangers. It is a fresh start.

Looking closer to home, we have Gretna and Airdrie.


----------



## Clark @ PB

I think you and I are crossing wires here mate,I'm well aware of how all this works.


----------



## Kerr

Clark @ PB said:


> I think you and I are crossing wires here mate,I'm well aware of how all this works.


So given the new club will have no liability of the old clubs actions, how can you consider them the same?

There is still multiple legal cases still running about legalities about dual contracts etc none of which the new club will be penalised for.

You can't have it both ways.


----------



## Clark @ PB

What I'm saying is that I will support the team in blue that will continue to play at Ibrox, supported by the same set of fans as before - its still the Rangers as we all know it, the fact that so many people are still out to get their kicks in while we're down proves this.

I support the club,not the company.


----------



## Kerr

Clark @ PB said:


> What I'm saying is that I will support the team in blue that will continue to play at Ibrox, supported by the same set of fans as before - its still the Rangers as we all know it, the fact that so many people are still out to get their kicks in while we're down proves this.
> 
> I support the club,not the company.


As long as the fans buy into that Rangers United or whatever the name becomes they will do well.

If the new company manages to buy most of the club's assets to form the new club all will appear well.

I don't follow the complete disconnection between the club and the company.

If Rangers didn't operate as a business there would not be a club.

There is no business now and there is also no club.

The new club has to reapply to the league not the new company.

We will see how it goes once the dust settles.


----------



## gerz1873

All this talk about company this and that being different 
So I suppose some will put a certain spin on Celtc forming a different company in1994 but that's totally different ok then
Rangers were Rangers before 1899 and were Rangers between then and now and will still be Rangers when the new 'company' forms


----------



## Clark @ PB

gerz1873 said:


> All this talk about company this and that being different
> So I suppose some will put a certain spin on Celtc forming a different company in1994 but that's totally different ok then
> Rangers were Rangers before 1899 and were Rangers between then and now and will still be Rangers when the new 'company' forms


Put it this way - if the Rangers fans belted out the Billy Boys loud and clear at the next home game would UEFA be lenient as its a first offence or would they hammer them due to past offences?

If that's not enough,HMRC themselves have confirmed the History etc will all remain so its not even up for debate,even if some will try.


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> All this talk about company this and that being different
> So I suppose some will put a certain spin on Celtc forming a different company in1994 but that's totally different ok then
> Rangers were Rangers before 1899 and were Rangers between then and now and will still be Rangers when the new 'company' forms


The company was registered under a different name. Common practice.

Teams are bought over on a regular basis. Look how many teams have been bought in the EPL in the last few years. No administration, no liquidation just a change of owner and company.

No ties were broken and all liability still exists.

It is nothing like what Rangers are facing at the moment.

What you have is a consortium of people trying to buy the assets of the old Rangers.

It is not a direct transfer and they have to compete to buy the assets they want and have to reapply to get back into the league.

The new club will not be liable to anything that has happened in the past.

No matter what happens about the BTC, the dual contracts etc, none will have any influence on the new club.

All ties have been cut and it is a fresh start.


----------



## Clark @ PB

Except Green isn't competing for the assets,it's already agreed with the administrators (see previous statements) and should be confirmed tomorrow.


----------



## Kerr

Clark @ PB said:


> Put it this way - if the Rangers fans belted out the Billy Boys loud and clear at the next home game would UEFA be lenient as its a first offence or would they hammer them due to past offences?
> 
> If that's not enough,HMRC themselves have confirmed the History etc will all remain so its not even up for debate,even if some will try.


The registration to the SPL will be 2012 if/when they are accepted.

They can't punish the new club based on the old when the registration to the league is clear in records.

It is that clear cut.


----------



## Kerr

Clark @ PB said:


> Except Green isn't competing for the assets,it's already agreed with the administrators (see previous statements) and should be confirmed tomorrow.


Only if someone does not bid more.

If someone offered more for Ibrox tomorrow they would own it.

There will not be any competition as it isn't like there is any other football team that could afford to buy Ibrox and make use of a big stadium.


----------



## gerz1873

Rangers will play at Ibrox , play in blue jersey's have the same fans but the company that owns the team and assets is different 
What's your point caller ?


----------



## Clark @ PB

Kerr said:


> Only if someone does not bid more.
> 
> If someone offered more for Ibrox tomorrow they would own it.
> 
> There will not be any competition as it isn't like there is any other football team that could afford to buy Ibrox and make use of a big stadium.


There are apparently 2 other bidders (1 being the Blue Knights) waiting in the background should Green fail to come up with the money.

Let's face it,there could well be more interest as the dirty stuff has largely been done,the debt is gone along with any "big tax case" (which Rangers could still win) hanging over the head of the club. It could be much more appealing to someone with a long term plan.


----------



## Clark @ PB

gerz1873 said:


> Rangers will play at Ibrox , play in blue jersey's have the same fans but the company that owns the team and assets is different
> What's your point caller ?


The point of many is that they want what they'll never have - our history


----------



## gerz1873

Clark @ PB said:


> The point of many is that they want what they'll never have - our history


Rather have ours than their history


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Rangers will play at Ibrox , play in blue jersey's have the same fans but the company that owns the team and assets is different
> What's your point caller ?


They will play at Ibrox, no doubt.

They will have blue jerseys.

I hope the same fans do turn up as Scottish football needs the Old Firm.

The company is now liquidated and the assets are for sale and the players are free to leave.

Under employment law they can accept a transfer of contract to the new club or leave if they want.

The old company still own the right to the name of the club.

Everything has to be bought to move on.


----------



## Kerr

Clark @ PB said:


> The point of many is that they want what they'll never have - our history


They?

The new Rangers can buy all the assets, they can convince the players to move under employment conditions etc etc.

You can't buy history though.

As per last night look at Gretna and Airdrie and how their history shows.

The club has to reapply to get into the league as a new identity. It is the club that is a member not the company.

Remember that the administrators and now the liquidation team are salesmen.

They will put a positive spin on everything to sell the assets for as much as possible.

That is their job.


----------



## gerz1873

Fiorentina are recognised by Uefa as the same club, Leeds and others in England are recognised by the FA as keeping history but only in Scotland is there an agenda by 'some' to make mischief surrounding a club's past present and future. I despair about our country sometimes


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Fiorentina are recognised by Uefa as the same club, Leeds and others in England are recognised by the FA as keeping history but only in Scotland is there an agenda by 'some' to make mischief surrounding a club's past present and future. I despair about our country sometimes


I've never looked into the history of those clubs.

I will need to read up why Leeds seem to carry on and why Wimbledon didn't.

Googling Leeds does show they were formed in 2007.

Rangers want to keep their history of Scottish titles so what does it have to do with anyone other than the authority they are registered with?

Airdrie and Gretna have lost their history.

How can it be different for Rangers when a new company is only buying up what they can from a liquidated business?


----------



## Kerr

A quick scan says that Fiorentina were reformed in 2002. 

The assets had to be bought and only one player remained. 

The new company bought as much assets at they could and reformed under a different team name. 

So a completely new team playing under a new club name playing in a stadium and using assets they had to buy can hardly be considered the same club.


----------



## gerz1873

Who supports a company ? Anyone? 
I support a club and think that some could just follow their club instead of obsessing about another
Honestly I truly despair about some people's thought process and hostility 
That is my last word on this subject


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Who supports a company ? Anyone?
> I support a club and think that some could just follow their club instead of obsessing about another


What would any club be without the business behind it?

When the business does well and generates cash to splash millions on a player, do you say I don't like him because the business bought him?

Rangers as a club no longer exists.

The club don't own a single thing.

The will only play in ibrox if they buy it, they will have a new team name etc etc.

They have no liability over the old clubs actions.

Rangers have done well for years as they have spent money they did not have to spend.

Now they walk away with all the success of that money and start new with no debt from that.

Not wanting to sound offensive, but can't you grasp the difference?


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Who supports a company ? Anyone?
> I support a club and think that some could just follow their club instead of obsessing about another
> Honestly I truly despair about some people's thought process and hostility
> That is my last word on this subject


Since you've edited.

I'm not bitter. I've stated since the start Scottish football needs competition and rivalry.

Everyone will remember how the new club came about.

No matter how you paper over the cracks it will be a new club. There is no connection between old and new apart from what you can buy from the old with no liability.


----------



## davec

What do you guys make of this?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footba...les-green-plot-to-replace-him-86908-23895646/

Got to feel sorry for ally he's put a brave face on all thru this. I'd take him at hearts.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## mystery1

If Rangers get to keep the history it will be because the newco has acquired the membership of the SPL/SFA that they currently have. The trouble for them then is they will have acquired the rights and the responsibilities so if found guilty of dual contracts, for example, they will be punished newco/oldco would make no difference.


----------



## davec

when Newco is formed it won't have any players. Which is another farce - how can the clubs vote in Newco, with possibly no signed players. When do the fixtures get published? How does Newco get round the requirement for 3 years audited accounts? How does anyone know if they will have the finances in place to complete a season's worth of fixtures? 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## gally

mystery1 said:


> If Rangers get to keep the history it will be because the newco has acquired the membership of the SPL/SFA that they currently have. The trouble for them then is they will have acquired the rights and the responsibilities so if found guilty of dual contracts, for example, they will be punished newco/oldco would make no difference.


This is bang on the money.

Take the history and you take the punishments. It's pretty simple. Personally i'm not that fussed. They will always be known now as Rangers 2012.

The fans can happily keep their history, they'll still know what happened and how "old Rangers" were liquidated.

They'll be back in the Spl with sanctions imo. If they don't accept the sanctions then what do you do?

Can I ask the Rangers fans what you guys did to save your club? No protests? No millions of pounds from the trust that had £6 million worth of pledges. I feel like they should have come out fighting. Instead they went without even a protest outside Ibrox.


----------



## Kerr

gally said:


> This is bang on the money.
> 
> Take the history and you take the punishments. It's pretty simple. Personally i'm not that fussed. They will always be known now as Rangers 2012.
> 
> The fans can happily keep their history, they'll still know what happened and how "old Rangers" were liquidated.
> 
> They'll be back in the Spl with sanctions imo. If they don't accept the sanctions then what do you do?
> 
> Can I ask the R


It is a fresh start. Even HMRC were clear on highlighting this.

There is no connection or responsibility from what has gone before. You can't claim to own the good bits and leave the bad behind.

There isn't any argument.

Green's deal appears to have quite a few conditions and I'd be worried that it will go through.

He seems a very slippery character when he is about to start a football team and he can't even say where his money is coming from.

He has already made quite a few wrong statements with the last being players will be in breach of contract if they don't move.

It was only the other week he was talking about the newco being able to shed the high earning players in the move to save cash.

Green has made it clear he is here for a quick buck and only talking about 1 year in charge. 
Rangers can't break even week to week as it was. With the same outgoings, lack of European football and any further financial penalties, after 3 years the club will be riddled with debt again.

I can't see Green sacking Ally. That would be very harsh and turn more supporters against him.


----------



## Kerr

gally said:


> Can I ask the Rangers fans what you guys did to save your club? No protests? No millions of pounds from the trust that had £6 million worth of pledges. I feel like they should have come out fighting. Instead they went without even a protest outside Ibrox.


Football fans are very fickle.

200,000 fans turned up in their quests for UEFA cup glory, 10,000 turned up for their march of need.

They asked on Rangers media how much the fans would be willing to hypothetically contribute to the club and it was a fortune.

Once asked to put their hand in their pockets for real cash it didn't happen.

The same when Murray had the share issue a few years back and got nowhere.


----------



## gally

I remember that pledge thing. Iirc I pledged £1690 to help them out. My mate pleged the same.

I think we've both spent it since then.


----------



## davec

gally said:


> I remember that pledge thing. Iirc I pledged £1690 to help them out. My mate pleged the same.
> 
> I think we've both spent it since then.


You pledged £1690? Any reason for this figure that doesn't fall into the bigotry category?!! Lol!

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## gally

Lols. Me and my Rangers supporting mates banter about it all the time. We're lucky we can be light hearted about the situation without someone being petrol-bombed! :lol:


----------



## Kerr

gally said:


> Lols. Me and my Rangers supporting mates banter about it all the time. We're lucky we can be light hearted about the situation without someone being petrol-bombed! :lol:


What is your address and someone will sort that out?


----------



## davec

gally said:


> Lols. Me and my Rangers supporting mates banter about it all the time. We're lucky we can be light hearted about the situation without someone being petrol-bombed! :lol:


Just wish there were more like you, on both sides.

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## gally

Most that I know and converse with are mate. 75% of my mates are Rangers fans and we watch every single game together. Would never come between us no matter how much we disgree. :lol:

BJK patter isn't banter but that's only my opinion. It's a football game at the end of the day. 

Me and my mate went for a pint the other night and chatted about everything that was going on, nothing wrong with having a good discussion about football. No glasses were thrown.. go figure.


----------



## Hotchy

Man its going to be boring having won the league by november :lol: hopefully rangers will be back to challenging by ten in a row  Woop!


----------



## Kerr

gally said:


> Most that I know and converse with are mate. 75% of my mates are Rangers fans and we watch every single game together. Would never come between us no matter how much we disgree. :lol:
> 
> BJK patter isn't banter but that's only my opinion. It's a football game at the end of the day.
> 
> Me and my mate went for a pint the other night and chatted about everything that was going on, nothing wrong with having a good discussion about football. No glasses were thrown.. go figure.


It is very rare to meet someone in person that spouts all the crap you read on the internet. Most can take a sensible argument.

I read through various football teams forums and most are an embarrassment. They can't even make a simple post without having to add offensive phrases or gestures.


----------



## gally

I try to avoid football forums. They frustrate me a little. Too much biased on either side and people who have zero clue of football at all.

Well it's official. The Rangers Football Club PLC is dead. Creditors meeting lasted just 9 minutes.

The new name for Rangers is now The Rangers Football Club.


----------



## davec

Hotchy said:


> Man its going to be boring having won the league by november :lol: hopefully rangers will be back to challenging by ten in a row  Woop!


woohoo, another jambo on the forum!


----------



## Bill58

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/106246-...er-smith-launches-last-ditch-bid-to-buy-club/
Walter Smith heads a consortium to buy Rangers!


----------



## gally

Lols. Which Rangers? New or old?

I have to laugh, he knew this was going to happen yet didn't want to own them whilst they were liquidated.


----------



## Clark @ PB

gally said:


> This is bang on the money.
> 
> Take the history and you take the punishments. It's pretty simple. Personally i'm not that fussed. They will always be known now as Rangers 2012.
> 
> The fans can happily keep their history, they'll still know what happened and how "old Rangers" were liquidated.
> 
> They'll be back in the Spl with sanctions imo. If they don't accept the sanctions then what do you do?
> 
> Can I ask the Rangers fans what you guys did to save your club? No protests? No millions of pounds from the trust that had £6 million worth of pledges. I feel like they should have come out fighting. Instead they went without even a protest outside Ibrox.


The pledges were never called in by the RST mate, that's why nothing happened. It would appear its because they knew this latest bid from Walter Smith,McColl etc was coming and the chance for fan ownership will come - providing Green plays ball and sells up eventually.


----------



## gally

I was just jesting mate, I just knew there were some joke pledges.

We'll see what's to come. Just find it a little 2 faced for "The Rangers" fans to go for Walter when he was part of the Ebt process and also stood by and watched the club liquidated only because he didn't want to have his name attached to it.

Anyone can see that.


----------



## bigslippy

gally said:


> I was just jesting mate, I just knew there were some joke pledges.
> 
> We'll see what's to come. Just find it a little 2 faced for "The Rangers" fans to go for Walter when he was part of the Ebt process and also stood by and watched the club liquidated only because he didn't want to have his name attached to it.
> 
> Anyone can see that.


I didn't see Walters name mentioned in that BBC documentary but you can correct me if I'm wrong , as for standing by ... well , time was the enemy to try and come out of administration by way of a CVA so why rock the boat when all who were interested in Rangers were hoping liquidation would not be the end result? Greens offer was accepted , Blue Knights/Kennedys wasn't . As for his bid , I'm no expert , however I would imagine getting the financial backing of business men who have Rangers at heart knowing they won't see any of their money back was not easy.... even a blind man could see that:thumb:


----------



## Bill58

Kerr said:


> Only if someone does not bid more.
> 
> If someone offered more for Ibrox tomorrow they would own it.
> 
> There will not be any competition as it isn't like there is any other football team that could afford to buy Ibrox and make use of a big stadium.


Well Walter & co did offer £500,000 more but Green still got the assets!


----------



## Kerr

Bill58 said:


> Well Walter & co did offer £500,000 more but Green still got the assets!


I've only read rumours so far and no official documents.

Green always said today was the day that the club would either be his through CVA or as a newco.

Not sure how the administrators could make a deal to sell the assets when that is the liquidators job and they have only been appointed.

Green already had all the cash in an account ready to be paid out.

Maybe there was a fear that Walter didn't have the cash in place ready to settle the deal.

Let's us face it there was already of plenty of empty offers and promises made by others.

Maybe real money sitting there was decided to be the best option.

I think it is a bit rich that Rangers fans are already turned on Green. He has just done what he could for the club when nobody was interested or realistic in their offers.


----------



## Bill58

Rangers fans are sceptical of Green and rightly so. He has already stated that Ian Hart a Glasgow-based businessman was part of the consortium yet Hart has stated he is not, we are still waiting to hear the names of 15 other members of the consortium.


----------



## Clark @ PB

Kerr said:


> I've only read rumours so far and no official documents.
> 
> Green always said today was the day that the club would either be his through CVA or as a newco.
> 
> Not sure how the administrators could make a deal to sell the assets when that is the liquidators job and they have only been appointed.
> 
> Green already had all the cash in an account ready to be paid out.
> 
> Maybe there was a fear that Walter didn't have the cash in place ready to settle the deal.
> 
> Let's us face it there was already of plenty of empty offers and promises made by others.
> 
> Maybe real money sitting there was decided to be the best option.
> 
> I think it is a bit rich that Rangers fans are already turned on Green. He has just done what he could for the club when nobody was interested or realistic in their offers.


Green only just managed to scrape the cash together for the purchase. Even up to last Monday he was still needing another 1.8 Million.


----------



## Kerr

Clark @ PB said:


> Green only just managed to scrape the cash together for the purchase. Even up to last Monday he was still needing another 1.8 Million.


Still the first any only person to come up with cash and not a promise of cash.

I find it really odd that a guy he named as part of his consortium suddenly appears on the opposite side.

Would anyone be daft enough to pluck a name out the sky and hope nobody finds out?

On the same day that that announcement comes out,we here about the unrest with Ally plus the bid from Walter Smith too.

Craig Whyte was daft enough to think nobody would find him out, but I'm sure Green will be well aware every word he says will be questioned and his history is all going to be studied too.

I was reading the survey about how many Rangers fans want to restart in the third division again.

Has anyone worked out how the club will manage to survive on third division revenue?

You have to look back to the 80s when Rangers were not winning regularly. I think you will be shocked how low crowds got.

There was regular sub 10,000 crowds with it dipping as low as 2000 in the final game of 1979. All the way through the 80s until they started winning the crowds were low except for the Celtic games.

Both the old firm crowds drop heavily for cup games at the moment.

Do you honestly feel Rangers could survive 3+ years in the wilderness when history shows that if the team are not winning, supporters will not turn up?


----------



## gerz1873

What has happened is a tupe transfer, this is an asset purchase from the liquidators of the Plc (the asset being rangers football club, not the rangers football club Plc!)
and transfer via tupe transfer to a new corporate vehicle.
The Rangers Football Club was founded in 1872. When the club was founded it was not incorporated into any company and ran for almost 20 years until it decided to be incorporated within a company. The incorporation of the The Rangers Football Club back then did not mean that because it was incorporated, it therefore lost the history which the club had accumulated during the previous 20 years. While the corporate body which owned the club in the years since then may now cease to operate after today, the re-incorporation of The Rangers Football Club into a new corporate body from today means that The Rangers Football Club continues and so does its history.
If any proof is required that these are 2 separate entities, I'd point you in the directions of the Scottish courts.
http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinion...CSOH 95.html

The first few lines are significant : -

"This is a petition for judicial review by the Rangers Football Club plc, a company presently in administration. That company presently operates Rangers Football Club (to whom I shall refer as "Rangers"). Rangers are members of the Scottish Football Association ("the SFA"), and are bound by the Articles of the SFA"
The line
That Company "presently operates " Rangers Football Club.

This is proof that any new Company will continue to "presently operate " Rangers Football Club.
So let's be clear, there should be no doubting here.
The operating Company may change but The Club remains the same.

So to anyone that was looking forward to "having a, party when the rangers die" get it right ****ing round every one of you, as your wee dream scenario ain't happening


----------



## gally

Rangers Football Club Plc died.

I'm not fussed if you keep all history, players, penalties, sanctions. You guys can have it all. 

Enjoy supporting newco next season. 

Jelly and ice cream to ease the mood? Or Ii it rude to have that at a mourning?


----------



## gerz1873

lol The club lives on the company as you say died yes
Forever in our shadow
Thought you lot prefered sorbet ?


----------



## gally

How can you still be so blasé after robbing your own country of taxes and bringing our game into disrepute in a massive way? 

So not quite in the shadows after part of your great club was liquidated. Bit embarrassing. 

I look forward to the first ever Celtic vs Newco game. Not sure when that will be.


----------



## gerz1873

Again lol Do you remember when the attendences at parkhead in the 70's and 80's were clearly not what was stated? What about those taxes the tax dodged on them?
Im not sure when we will play Scotland 2nd club but im pretty sure Rangers will still be well ahead in titles and trophies :0


----------



## gally

Eye of the beholder. 

The Rangers Football Club est June 2012. 

History so far in all competitions.

Played: 0
Won: 0
Lost: 0
Drawn: 0
Points: 0
Trophies: 0


----------



## bigslippy

gally said:


> Eye of the beholder.
> 
> The Rangers Football Club est June 2012.
> 
> History so far in all competitions.
> 
> Played: 0
> Won: 0
> Lost: 0
> Drawn: 0
> Points: 0
> Trophies: 0


Same horse , different jockey:thumb:


----------



## Kerr

bigslippy said:


> Same horse , different jockey:thumb:


If the jockey comes off the horse, the horse is out of the race.

You never watch the grand national?


----------



## Shug

So if its the same club under a new company, can hearts and rapid Vienna still expect to be paid for the players rangers took (and in one case made huge profit on)? Or are they to be shafted cos its 'important to the world that rangers lives on and is allowed to dominate Scottish football by fair means or foul'?


----------



## bigslippy

Kerr said:


> If the jockey comes off the horse, the horse is out of the race.
> 
> You never watch the grand national?


What race ?? there is a new jockey , you ever watch the news?:lol:


----------



## gerz1873

It's amazing the lengths some go to ,
Trying to re write history to suit they own agenda. Come out of the denial and see that you are way behind the world's most successful club. 
The company died nothing else


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> It's amazing the lengths some go to ,
> Trying to re write history to suit they own agenda. Come out of the denial and see that you are way behind the world's most successful club.
> The company died nothing else


If you read back this thread and what all the vocal Rangers supporters said before liquidation, they were utterly convinced that Rangers wouldn't be liquidated.

They fully accepted liquidation was a disaster and the end of the club.

Suddenly now it has happened, everything is fine with liquidation and a debt free club was a great thing. A total change of tune.

Nobody is trying to rewrite history as history remains.

If a go-kart racer won the Scottish championship 10 times, would you rate his success better than Ayrton Senna or Michael Schumacher?

Surely to be deemed the world's most successful club, you have to be able to win the world's biggest prizes?


----------



## gerz1873

Prolonged success is better than a one season wonder ?
Kerr you amuse me mate


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Prolonged success is better than a one season wonder ?
> Kerr you amuse me mate


It most certainly is without a shadow of a doubt.

That is why I rate teams such as Real Madrid, Ac Milan, Barcelona etc as the most successful teams in the world.

Claiming to be the most successful team in the world based on Scottish premier titles doesn't even make for an argument.

Let's not forget if Rangers are proven to have broken SPL rules as accused, they must be stripped of any win under the circumstances.

Rangers won 54 league titles and Celtic are currently 43.

If the usage of ebts is proven to be used as dual contracts and illegal, the team finishing 2nd is awarded the title that is going to see Celtic become the team with most Scottish titles.

If this is all proven, from what I've read the SPL can't punish the current The Rangers. Another reason why you can't keep pretending there is a continuation of club when the SPL can neither punish the old company or the new team.

It was the old business that generated the cash for the clubs success and they go hand in hand.

You can't take all the rewards when it suits and ignore the rest.


----------



## Stevoraith

gerz1873 said:


> the world's most successful club.


:lol::lol::lol:

You made a funny!


----------



## gerz1873

Lol at all that again Kerr keep up the pretence


----------



## gerz1873

Please anyone share 'if' a team has won domestic titles than Rangers. 
I await the dismissive paranoia


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Lol at all that again Kerr keep up the pretence


I don't think you have any understanding of what is happening.


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Please anyone share 'if' a team has won domestic titles than Rangers.
> I await the dismissive paranoia


Nothing paranoid about it. Put away the poor cliche book.

How can you suggest winning the Scottish league makes Rangers more successful than Real Madrid?

Do we start searching through junior teams, pub teams and school teams to find someone that has won more?


----------



## gerz1873

Kerr you are more obsessed about Rangers than me mate well done
Fair enough Real Madrid Milan Barca ect consistently win Euro trophies than is a given. There is far greater competition in most of the leagues in Europe than in Scotland also a given 
But again more titles than even the giants can manage :/


----------



## gerz1873

Cliche book? Pot and kettle mate or is that a cliche too


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Kerr you are more obsessed about Rangers than me mate well done
> Fair enough Real Madrid Milan Barca ect consistently win Euro trophies than is a given. There is far greater competition in most of the leagues in Europe than in Scotland also a given
> But again more titles than even the giants can manage :/


I wouldn't go as far as obsessed but I do have an interest. I also don't mind a debate.

You might have noticed never once have I resorted to insulting any Rangers supporter or indeed the team? I stick to either my opinion, which I feel is actually fair, or fact.

Not that I get any enjoyment in watching what is going on, I do normally read what is going on. It is quite interesting.

I would recommend that you read some of it as it might be worthwhile and allow you to either understand or make a good argument, both of what you have not managed.

I read through various club forums of many teams to see what is going on. I have in interest in the SPL so I read quite a few SPL forums, I'm interested in detailing so I come here, I'm into my BMWs so I read BMW forums etc. It is a normal thing to do.

All the information is readily available out there about what is going on.

I thought as a Rangers fan you would be keen to keep up on such a critical time in the club's future? It doesn't take much effort to keep up.


----------



## gally

You're a breath of fresh air mate. Most The Rangers' fans can't have a reasonable discussion because we're "obsessed" even though this directly affects every football fan in Scotland. 

I'm still revelling in their demise. The big spending days, the £10 for every £5, tge titles, the overdraft. Home to roost. 

What I find really funny is the shooting down of David Murray for his recklessness. Does anyone remember the protests when they were signing Flo? Gazza et al? No they were too busy lapping it up. 

No punishments. No history. 

Punishments. Keep the history with the newco. 

Pretty simple.


----------



## Kerr

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/walter-smith-questions-rangers-legend/1947

This is quite a good read.

I'm not sure how old Rangers fans are on this site but from my recollection Walter Smith was hardly a legend until he won the last 3 titles.

He is factually the most successful Rangers manager in history according to statistics but do you guys remember the 90s?

I remember Celtic were struggling badly and could not rub two pennies together.

I can remember having to watch absolutely mince players taking advantage as we were skint.

Never once did I hear Rangers fans admitting their championship wins were tainted because Celtic were financially crippled.

Rangers took advantage of Celtic's poor finances(as well as spending money they didn't have) for countless years and that makes them hugely successful. Celtic win one title because Rangers own downfall and they are already going mental. Tainted etc.

It it not Celtic's fault the position Rangers are in.

Also going back to the original link at the top, Rangers now have Walter Smith as a hero, but remembering back to end of the 9 in a row run the Rangers fans had turned against him.

The fans did know the league was a gimmie as there was very little competition with all the other teams being absolutely skint. Anyone could have managed Rangers to win the Scottish premier league.

They also were not happy that he came back either I'm sure most people can remember.

3 SPL wins and he was a hero.

I remember the days of this Walter when he did used to have justify himself. This is pretty funny and awkward


----------



## gerz1873

Ok Kerr enough about our obsession with Rangers let's talk about your club. 
You wrote about Rangers fans 'turning' on Walter Smith but can you answer why was the most successful manager in your club's history never made a director ? 
Btw Scott Symon is Rangers most successful manager this proves YOU don't know as much as you would like us to believe


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Ok Kerr enough about our obsession with Rangers let's talk about your club.
> You wrote about Rangers fans 'turning' on Walter Smith but can you answer why was the most successful manager in your club's history never made a director ?
> Btw Scott Symon is Rangers most successful manager this proves YOU don't know as much as you would like us to believe


Bill Struth won most trophies. 30 in total and your own logic the more trophies you win the more successful you are.

However Bill Stuth was in charge of Rangers for 34 years.

Scott Symon only won 15 trophies and only 6 were league.

Walter won 10 league championships and 21 trophies in total in his far shorter reign

So yes, Walter was the statistically most successful in terms of trophies to service, Bill Stuth overall all trophy wins and Scott Symon not close.

Are you sure you support Rangers?


----------



## TUBS

Rangers are cheats, end of !


----------



## gerz1873

Struth won more than Smith so that makes him more successful 
What about Stein or do you only like to split hairs about facts on Rangers?
Your talents are wasted on here you could have been a spin doctor in Tony Blair's New Labour mate
And you just keep proving my point about being obsessed with Rangers


----------



## Mick

gerz1873 said:


> So to anyone that was looking forward to "having a, party when the rangers die" get it right ****ing round every one of you, as your wee dream scenario ain't happening


gerz, you will have to excuse me, genuinely, make no bones about it as I know hee-haw about football, and have no real interest in it.

but as anyone who works in or around glasgow will know, its all you are getting at tea break these days is talk of rangers etc, and so i find it prudent to educate myself in whats happening with them.

Im confused as to how you can claim that rangers will not lose their history?

I understand what you posted above about a TUPE transfer, but that only applies to assets like the building itself, land etc, and not the actual "football club" itself, does it not?

The way I understood it, Rangers would still need to re-apply to the SPL as a new "team" to get back into the league (wether that be premier division, or however they decide to work it), as the old rangers died with RFC plc, did it not?

If so, how can you register a new team with the SPL, but try and keep the history from an old, now defunct one? (as i say, I may have gotten it wrong, but this was my current understsanding of what was happening?)


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Struth won more than Smith so that makes him more successful
> What about Stein or do you only like to split hairs about facts on Rangers?
> Your talents are wasted on here you could have been a spin doctor in Tony Blair's New Labour mate


No my facts are facts.

Anyways it has been nice owning you.

I've been in the pub for hours and my legs are tired. I'm going to need to take you out my back pocket so I can sit down.

After the pub I'm going to go to a nightclub.

I'm going to go to the bank and lift money from my overdraft that isn't mine.

I'm going to chat up a stunning bird with stories that make no sense and ply her with drink paid with money that isn't mine.

I will take her home and have one sided sex and broadcast it to the world how successful I am.

In the afternoon I'm going to declare myself liquidated.

That means I won't be liable for any STDs or pregnancy but can boast about it for years to come.

My god that is a familiar story.


----------



## bigslippy

Mick said:


> gerz, you will have to excuse me, genuinely, make no bones about it as I know hee-haw about football, and have no real interest in it.
> 
> but as anyone who works in or around glasgow will know, its all you are getting at tea break these days is talk of rangers etc, and so i find it prudent to educate myself in whats happening with them.
> 
> Im confused as to how you can claim that rangers will not lose their history?
> 
> I understand what you posted above about a TUPE transfer, but that only applies to assets like the building itself, land etc, and not the actual "football club" itself, does it not?
> 
> The way I understood it, Rangers would still need to re-apply to the SPL as a new "team" to get back into the league (wether that be premier division, or however they decide to work it), as the old rangers died with RFC plc, did it not?
> 
> If so, how can you register a new team with the SPL, but try and keep the history from an old, now defunct one? (as i say, I may have gotten it wrong, but this was my current understsanding of what was happening?)


Not that I trust him:lol: , here's a link:thumb:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/18417312


----------



## Kerr

bigslippy said:


> Not that I trust him:lol: , here's a link:thumb:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/18417312


Would a car salesman tell you you were buying a lemon?


----------



## bigslippy

Kerr said:


> Would a car salesman tell you you were buying a lemon?


Does a pot call a kettle black?


----------



## Kerr

bigslippy said:


> Does a pot call a kettle black?


You understand that the administrators job was to sell the club for as much money as possible?


----------



## Kerr

Mick said:


> If so, how can you register a new team with the SPL, but try and keep the history from an old, now defunct one? (as i say, I may have gotten it wrong, but this was my current understsanding of what was happening?)


As a non football person, you still have common sense.

That is not to say The Rangers will be accepted to join the SPL.

Rules state they have to apply to join any league as currently the new team have no right to play in any league.

There is no continuous registration. It is very clear cut.

The Rangers might not even be considered to join division 3 if everyone wanted to be harsh.

The likelihood is they will be able to rejoin in the top division with no or minimal sanctions yet somehow distort this to them being hard done to.

The Rangers have only existed a few days and they are already trying to bully their way.


----------



## gerz1873

Too much drink last night don't know why I said Scott Symon as Rangers most successful manager of course it's Mr Struth


----------



## gerz1873

Hello Mick the club were formed in 1872 But were not incorporated into a company until 1899 so if the club were formed before the company surely if the company is liquidated the club still lives on as does the history ?
Kerr your wee scenario scares me 'owning' me and 'one sided sex' :0


----------



## Kerr

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18503656

Hopefully now Rangers fans can get behind their team. All the in fighting is becoming very bitter.

What a total waste of time that bid was, just kicked up another storm for no reason.

I couldn't help but notice Walter's pop. "*We wish the new Rangers Football Club every good fortune." *

After all the the club carries on and only the company has changed claims, even Walter puts the boot in.


----------



## Bratwurst

All the fans are behind the team, especially in these times. The in-fighting is only about ownership surely? That's always been my understanding of things.

What makes you see Walter's statement there as a pop?

I see it as no more than wishing Rangers luck.

Maybe what you as a non-Rangers fan sees is very different to what a Rangers fan sees.


----------



## Kerr

Fans has been quick to point out the club carries on and only the company has died. 

Walter has wished the new club well. 

I wonder what will happen now as a lot of vocal Rangers supporters have promised not to purchase season tickets under Green. There is/was a campaign to force him out. 

Do they now have to draw their neck in and get behind the team or will they stand by their promises now that Green is the only option? 

What are you expecting on the 4th July and from the dual contracts hearings?


----------



## Bratwurst

Expulsion from the SPL I reckon.


----------



## gally

:lol:


----------



## Kerr

I think everyone knew that the players that were good enough for a move would jump ship.

I didn't expect Whittaker to leave as no other club will be daft enough to pay him £20k a week.

What I've been really surprised is that "real Rangers men" old and current are just queuing up to put the boot in. Now you have these two.

I'm sure if they left and simply said I don't want to play in div1/div3/spl or under the uncertainty or even that they want to make a quick buck I'm sure they would have left without much issue.

Both players have burned their bridges with Rangers supporters now.

Steven Naismith *"I am extremely proud of the actions we took but I am disappointed and angry that Rangers Football Club no longer exists in its original form."*

Steven Whittaker *"I owe no loyalty to new company. I was loyal to old Rangers. It's purely a footballing decision. It's a new company. There's no history there." *

Naismith nearly joined Celtic before he joined Rangers after playing the clubs off each other.

I personally don't want him at Celtic park but I could see it happening and the knock on effects. Neil Lennon would only be the 2nd most hated person in Glasgow.


----------



## cmillsjoe

i am a celtic fan and wouldnt take anyone from the current rangers squad for free , just my honest take on it i know we need a gk but theirs has to many problems


----------



## Kerr

No chance that McGregor would come over or be accepted over. Everyone would hate him. 

That would be the most unlikely transfer ever.


----------



## cmillsjoe

i know that but what im saying is at the minute he is the only one in the rangers squad that would get a game for celtic but i know no one would take him


----------



## Grizzle

cmillsjoe said:


> i am a celtic fan and wouldnt take anyone from the current rangers squad for free , just my honest take on it i know we need a gk but *theirs has to many problems*


"Theirs has to many problems"

Whats that.. he saves to many of Celtic's penaltys and shots at goal!!


----------



## gally

Maybe Ally meant "I don't do walking away"?


----------



## RD55 DUN

Clubs have overwhelmingly voted against the newco joining the SPL – discuss?


As a rangers fan who is confused over all the recent press statements, I am not too fussed about us not being in the SPL next year, purely to avoid sanctions imposed on us, and being made to feel forever in the “debt” of other clubs.


----------



## Bratwurst

Suits me too. D3 would suit me even more. As long as there's still Rangers, I'll go and watch them no matter where they play.

After all the spouting of 'morally wrong' and 'sporting integrity', they'd rather (mostly) all see us near-on buried than think about themselves a bit more. I believe it's called spite. Cutting your nose off to spite your face.

How unbelievably stupid and short-sighted must you be to take yourself to the brink of oblivion, just so that you can try to get someone else there?

A thing I'll never do, ever again, is visit the ground of any other team in Scotland (unless I know they've voted us into whichever league they're in)

Yes, I am perpetuating things.

I might change my mind in the future, but I'll see.


----------



## Kerr

The Rangers fans think their team has a right to be in the SPL. It doesn't.

Rules are rules and should be applied. They went bust and lost their place and any new team has to apply to be considered for division 3. 

If they get into division 3 as best applicant, that is fair enough. If they go straight into division 1 that is a huge favour.

This hard done to/hated nonsense has to stop. Rules are rules. 

Nothing that has happened so far is worse than any team before but the way the fans are going on you think it was. 

Rangers fans have taken great pride rubbing people's faces in it for 25 years and now the shoe is on the other foot, they should take their own medicine like men..

All the threads on RM are all about bringing everyone else down and I can't wait to they go bust etc etc and watch us do great. 

The arrogance is breathtaking since their club went bust and is in real danger on going under in its new identity. 

Then they wonder why some people do hate them. 

A lot of people need to draw their necks in and show common sense.


----------



## RD55 DUN

I totally agree with Kerr on this. There is no way that our “new” team deserve instant acceptance into the SPL or 1st Division, or even the 3rd. However all the politics are dragging this on.

We have never been in this situation before and tbh I think they are making the rules up as the go along, subject to funding, sky tv etc.

I would rather see the new rangers start from the 3rd, and work our way back up, however whatever politics are going on, financial matters etc these will surely decide where we are placed.


----------



## Bratwurst

Kerr said:


> The Rangers fans think their team has a right to be in the SPL. It doesn't.
> 
> Rules are rules and should be applied. They went bust and lost their place and any new team has to apply to be considered for division 3.
> 
> If they get into division 3 as best applicant, that is fair enough. If they go straight into division 1 that is a huge favour.
> 
> This hard done to/hated nonsense has to stop. Rules are rules.
> 
> Nothing that has happened so far is worse than any team before but the way the fans are going on you think it was.
> 
> Rangers fans have taken great pride rubbing people's faces in it for 25 years and now the shoe is on the other foot, they should take their own medicine like men..
> 
> All the threads on RM are all about bringing everyone else down and I can't wait to they go bust etc etc and watch us do great.
> 
> The arrogance is breathtaking since their club went bust and is in real danger on going under in its new identity.
> 
> Then they wonder why some people do hate them.
> 
> A lot of people need to draw their necks in and show common sense.


I had a half page reply typed there and have deleted the lot because, well, it's futile arguing or even discussing anything just now with fans of other clubs. We feel the way wee feel, you feel the way you feel, it'll never change.

However, we will rise again and take our rightful place a the top of Scottish football. 

Just displaying some breathtaking arrogance there. 

We Are The People 

Rangers Til I Die 

ps. Strange that a fan of another club scours through RM. Does your club not have it's own forum? Mind you, that's probably really boring now seeing as it's full of lawyers, accountants, tax specialists and financial gurus.


----------



## EcosseGP

Like others above I'm another fan in favour of heading down to the 3rd and starting again. I've already renewed my season ticket (although they say they're not taking any money until everything is sorted) and I'm sure other have too. 

I'm sure that if we end up in the 3rd division they'll be teams there that won't be happy either so it's a no win situation, I'll be interested to see how much money Sky TV take back after not getting the 4 old firm clashes that was part of the initial deal and how many clubs complain that they had the tv money spent. 

From what I've read the new club hasn't even applied to be a member of the SPL or the SFA at the moment which is more or a worry with the season just being round the corner. 

I'm sure as fans go we'll take whatever punishment is thrown at our team (wether we like it or not) and get on with supporting the club. If we look at the bigger picture things can't get any worse for us !


----------



## bigslippy

Lorenzo said:


> I had a half page reply typed there and have deleted the lot because, well, it's futile arguing or even discussing anything just now with fans of other clubs. We feel the way wee feel, you feel the way you feel, it'll never change.
> 
> However, we will rise again and take our rightful place a the top of Scottish football.
> 
> Just displaying some breathtaking arrogance there.
> 
> We Are The People
> 
> Rangers Til I Die
> 
> *ps. Strange that a fan of another club scours through RM. Does your club not have it's own forum? Mind you, that's probably really boring now seeing as it's full of lawyers, accountants, tax specialists and financial gurus.
> 
> *




Celic fans are more obsessed with Rangers than Rangers fans:thumb::lol:


----------



## Kerr

It does need sorting out as soon as. 

They couldn't set the precident of letting Rangers straight back in after putting other teams down. 

I'm sure Aberdeen would suddenly start thinking they could pull a fast one and wipe out their debt if there wasn't going to be any real punishment on them. As long as the 10 point deduction never relegated them, they could wipe out £18m debt and stay a mid table club. 

The Rangers fans expecting instant success are expecting too much in my opinion. All the youth team will get lumps kicked out of them and will struggle in even the 3rd division. 

With half a squad required they can't afford to bring in quality players that are going to be good enough in the long run. 

It is going to be harder to recover than what some people think. 

Like all team with success glory hunters will always make up part of the support. I can see the novelty of the lower leagues wearing off quickly. 

I posted earlier in this thread and someone posted it on Rangers forum the other night and got huge abuse for it, but when Rangers were not winning the crowds were poor. He was recalling days when he was at games with 5000 at the game. 

Sub 10,000 was very regular dropping as low as 2000 for a league games. 

I can't see 50,000 and success coming in an instant. Fans will need to be patient.


----------



## Kerr

bigslippy said:


> [/B]
> 
> Celic fans are more obsessed with Rangers than Rangers fans:thumb::lol:


I love this quote.

Rangers fans keep moaning about what other supporters have written on their forums as they spend time reading them.

Then moan if anyone reads their forum.

On RM half the threads are Celtic and half the folk can't post without mentioning Celtic.

There was a demo organised in Glasgow last week to protest against Rangers.

How many people were obsessed to turn up?

Was it not only about 30?

Rangers fans seem to be obsessed with thinking people are obsessed with them when really they are not.


----------



## bigslippy

Kerr said:


> I love this quote.
> 
> Rangers fans keep moaning about what other supporters have written on their forums as they spend time reading them.
> 
> Then moan if anyone reads their forum.
> 
> On RM half the threads are Celtic and half the folk can't post without mentioning Celtic.
> 
> There was a demo organised in Glasgow last week to protest against Rangers.
> 
> How many people were obsessed to turn up?
> 
> Was it not only about 30?
> 
> Rangers fans seem to be obsessed with thinking people are obsessed with them when really they are not.


I love this quote " rangers fans ... do this , do that , say this, say that ..." you know for a fact that this covers every single rangers fans opinions?

I have a life , it doesn't revolve around football forums:thumb: each to their own


----------



## Kerr

bigslippy said:


> I love this quote " rangers fans ... do this , do that , say this, say that ..." you know for a fact that this covers every single rangers fans opinions?
> 
> I have a life , it doesn't revolve around football forums:thumb: each to their own


 And you know every Celtic fan to make your quote accurate?

A forum is a forum irrelevant to if it is cars or detailing surely? I spend a bit of time of various forums between real life.

I'm fully aware how things work and people manipulate things to suit their argument.

I don't think for one second Celtic fans are more obsessed with Rangers than visa versa, it just gets tedious that it is posted usually by the people who are crticising others for what they do.


----------



## Grizzle

Kerr said:


> And you know every Celtic fan to make your quote accurate?
> 
> A forum is a forum irrelevant to if it is cars or detailing surely? I spend a bit of time of various forums between real life.
> 
> I'm fully aware how things work and people manipulate things to suit their argument.
> 
> *I don't think for one second Celtic fans are more obsessed with Rangers than visa versa*, it just gets tedious that it is posted usually by the people who are crticising others for what they do.


Your contradicting yourself here... every second post is by you


----------



## bigslippy

Kerr said:


> And you know every Celtic fan to make your quote accurate?
> 
> A forum is a forum irrelevant to if it is cars or detailing surely? I spend a bit of time of various forums between real life.
> 
> I'm fully aware how things work and people manipulate things to suit their argument.
> 
> I don't think for one second Celtic fans are more obsessed with Rangers than visa versa, it just gets tedious that it is posted usually by the people who are crticising others for what they do.


Some celtic fans I know spit at the tv in the pub when a team scores against them:doublesho

One night about 20 years ago in the snooker club some celtic fans sang " we all agree the Ibrox disaster was magic " ... my mothers cousins son died in said disaster ... I don't taint them all with the same brush so don't lecture me :thumb: and you have used that "manipulate things to suit their argument " before , if this what floats your boat I'm happy for you:thumb:


----------



## Kerr

Grizzle said:


> Your contradicting yourself here... every second post is by you


Explain the contradiction? All.I.was merely stating was Rangers fans keep posting about obsessed Celtic fans, but do everything they criticise Celtic fans for.

I post a lot on football and usually only in response to someone else.

Hardly anything else happening in Scottish football to discuss and these events affect every team.


----------



## Kerr

bigslippy said:


> Some celtic fans I know spit at the tv in the pub when a team scores against them:doublesho
> 
> One night about 20 years ago in the snooker club some celtic fans sang " we all agree the Ibrox disaster was magic " ... my mothers cousins son died in said disaster ... I don't taint them all with the same brush so don't lecture me :thumb: and you have used that "manipulate things to suit their argument " before , if this what floats your boat I'm happy for you:thumb:


This is getting silly now.


----------



## bigslippy

Kerr said:


> This is getting silly now.


At last , you've seen the light:thumb:


----------



## Stevoraith

Kerr said:


> Rules are rules and should be applied. They went bust and lost their place and any new team has to apply to be considered for division 3.
> 
> If they get into division 3 as best applicant, that is fair enough. If they go straight into division 1 that is a huge favour.
> 
> This hard done to/hated nonsense has to stop. Rules are rules.





RD55 DUN said:


> We have never been in this situation before and tbh I think they are making the rules up as the go along, subject to funding, sky tv etc.


The point is, we have been in this situation before.

Livingston and Gretna were relegated to the third division when they were liquidated.

TV deals etc _shouldn't_ come into it, that's what the Raith chairman is on about when he's saying the game is corrupt.

If this was any other club in Scotland (except for the other half of the old firm) there would be no discussion, and no vote.

The precedent has been set before so why shouldn't it be followed.

Now, I don't agree with people saying they should be kicked out of football. If they have to apply to division three then they should get in as they will have by far the best facilities etc.

But the fact that some Rangers fans are angry at having to accept the same punishment previous teams have taken is astonishing.

(For the record, most Rangers fans I've spoken to agree with the consensus that the 3rd is the fair place for them to go. But a club like Rangers attracts glory hunters, and glory hunters tend to be, shall we say, cerebrally challenged. These are the ones which are in the vast minority but they are also the ones being vocal about revenge on other clubs etc. I only speak for myself here but these morons are what I cannot stand about Rangers FC.)


----------



## Kerr

It really is that clear cut Stevoraith.

Reading the statements from today the Rangers supporters trust accused the other teams of acting out of malice not voting Rangers back into the SPL.

This is the same teams that have been accused of ending their own survival if they voted Rangers out.

A pretty brave decision to act on malice if it is going to put yourself out a job and your club out of business. The vote ended up 10 against, Kilmarnock abstaining and Rangers(as in the old Rangers, not the new team seeking acceptance) voting yes. 

I do hope that all the businessmen who run these clubs have worked out their facts and figures to make sure they survive. I'm pretty sure the decision between losing a fortune for a club and voting yes would have been a tough decision if the club depended on it.

For the only vote for the newco to come back being cast by Rangers speaks volumes.

Apparently the Rangers chairman antagonised fellow chairmen with his arrogance during the meeting and presentation to allow newco in. It sounds like the apology of the day before was hollow to say the least.

I'm surprised that the newco were voted out and did expect them back with sanctions. 

Quite a few division 1 clubs have voiced their concern as they had not foreseen the newco ending up in their division. A few clubs have budgeted to be aiming towards winning the championship and getting to the SPL.

It would be a kick in the teeth for them if they lost out on promotion, and a lot of money, to a team that was not in their plans over the last year of rebuilding. 

It is a horrible situation and I hope this nonsense never comes round again. 

We are only 4 weeks away from the season starting and still the mess goes on. With all the changes to be made and all the other transactions people are trying to push through, I can't see the season ready to go.

I don't know what else the Rangers fans want to sort this mess.

The newco can't just jump right back in debt free ready to roll in the SPL. 

The 10 point deduction last year is as per rules and let's not forget Rangers were one of the teams to vote for all the sanctions they are now fighting.

I do think it was anywhere near as significant as fans make out as Celtic had already powered past and were surging ahead irrelevant to the deduction. The gap at the end was far more significant and not through Celtic's fault.

The fines to the club for Craig White. Every Rangers fans thinks he is a scumbag and he did bring the game into disrepute. I don't understand the argument how this is unjustified or detrimental to newco as the likelihood is the debt is likely to go down with Rangers. So no liability or punishment served.

As for the players leaving this is law. The guys are merely employees and are within their right to choose to leave. 

It was pointed out to me by a Dundee fan today that Rangers also used this situation to their advantage when Dundee went into administration in 2003.

Zurab Khizanishvili became a free agent at that time. Rangers signed him and because of his age and moving between two Scottish clubs, Rangers had to offer compensation.

They paid Dundee £50,000 which was peanuts for a player that looked one of the best in the SPL at that stage. Dundee contested this rightly wanting far more.

It tuned out because of the predicament at Dundee they were legally unable to accept fees and they were later forced to pay Rangers the £50,000 back plus interest.

As it stands nothing unfavourable has happened to the newco. They have the potential to be let off extremely lightly and I can't understand all this hard done to business.

I don't get all this anger of f****** up the other teams, boycott any one who sponsors the league, boycott away games etc etc.

The newco have alienated themselves far more than the previous Rangers team have and with no money, sponsors of their own pulling out, only half a squad or poor players and not a league to play in 4 weeks from now, I think a lot of people better start building bridges.

Before newco all concentrate on other teams failing, bare in mind that Rangers could not survive in the SPL with all the funding that comes with the top league in Scotland.

Can newco really survive with lower league income for any length of time?

This whole episode has been hard for Scottish football and I think we are a long way from the end.


----------



## Bratwurst

2.40am... the obsession is great with you, it seems.

At that time in the morning my fingers are glad of the rest  never mind getting up to type a story about my dislike of all things Rangers.

It's everyone except Rangers that are prolonging all of this. Rangers just want decisions made, and made fast, but certain sections of the footballing community (governing bodies, leagues, clubs, mhedia.. sorry media) are doing everything they can to stall processes and push things as far as they can go in an attempt to punish Rangers as much as they possibly can. I know and you know that time alone is adding to the punishment, the same way it did when the finances of the previous company were rapidly going down the pan.

Why don't you just admit that you want Rangers shut down?

It's as clear as day that that's what the vast majority of Scottish football want too... yet strangely they all want a piece of the old cash cow eh? 

Ahh decisions decisions... what to do...


----------



## Mtpagey

Some people work nights or are there only limited times you'd prefer the DW forum to be open? 

Its not about a public dislike for rangers or the old firm specifically. The rest of scottish football has had to put up with them monopolising everything to get their own way for so long that its no wonder other fans are laughing down their sleeves.

Nobody likes to see clubs go out of business but the way that the company running Rangers took advantage and cheated their way through the years has finalyl caught up with them. The process is taking so long cause it has never happened on this scale before... one of the biggest clubs in the country going bust then immediately wanting a clean slate? You cant expect that surely?

Im not surprised the other teams voted to reject their spl application to be honest. Yes the biggest draw of scottish football for most seem to be Old Firm derby's and not having them will create a massive loss in revenue for the rest of Scottish Football...*yawn!* 

Thats like saying the old Firm are above the law and could never be relegated surely? If that was the case then where's the integrity of the game cause it certainly wouldnt be a "competition" any more. Mind you it hasn't been a competition for that long, anything that does come up in SPL votes only needs the Old Firm to stick together and they can veto anything that doesnt suit them


----------



## Kerr

Lorenzo said:


> 2.40am... the obsession is great with you, it seems.
> 
> At that time in the morning my fingers are glad of the rest  never mind getting up to type a story about my dislike of all things Rangers.
> 
> It's everyone except Rangers that are prolonging all of this. Rangers just want decisions made, and made fast, but certain sections of the footballing community (governing bodies, leagues, clubs, mhedia.. sorry media) are doing everything they can to stall processes and push things as far as they can go in an attempt to punish Rangers as much as they possibly can. I know and you know that time alone is adding to the punishment, the same way it did when the finances of the previous company were rapidly going down the pan.
> 
> Why don't you just admit that you want Rangers shut down?
> 
> It's as clear as day that that's what the vast majority of Scottish football want too... yet strangely they all want a piece of the old cash cow eh?
> 
> Ahh decisions decisions... what to do...


I have an interest in the situation. I have found it quite interesting and it is hard to ignore since it dominates all things Scottish football. It is a major sporting story dominating Scottish football.

I don't agree with the governing body are trying to punish Rangers as much as they can. Quite the opposite in fact but they know they can't let things go without penalties and sanctions that are too far outwith the rule book.

So far they have got away with minimal punishment and the governing bodies have allowed the opportunity for Rangers to be voted back in to the top flight. If rumours are true the deal is already struck for first division.

If they really wanted to punish the newco they would simply not allow them back into any league or 3rd division at best. I do agree they have thought about covering their own backs financially, but everyone should not be dependant of the income the old firm generate.

I'm surprised not one team voted for newco and in doing so obviously feel they can survive without the newco in the league.

Not sure that many people want the newco to fail. Not as many as you believe and the reasons for many people voting newco out the SPL are more about fairness than wanting to stick the knife in Rangers.

Most supporters want to see the back of the bile thrown about by some though.

All the teams that allowed their fans to vote quite often it was only hundreds that voted and not the thousands who turn up to the games.

I bet the same majority would vote Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen etc out if it was them in this situation.

As for everyone else holding up the decision I partially agree. The SPL and SFA seem scared to make a decision. It really has been a poor show.

Bearing in mind newco have only existed for 3 weeks and as far as I'm aware have not even submitted an application to enter a league, I don't think anyone outside Rangers is more guilty of dragging it out.

With various people trying to buy the club and force the sale through boycotting etc, it is the Rangers people adding more uncertainty causing the situation to drag on.

I've never once said I wanted Rangers out. I've said before in this thread that it is the games I look forward to most and Celtic need competition.

The simple fact that you are clearly choosing to ignore is they simply can't tear up the rule book just because it is Rangers. If you were not so biased and angry you would see my points are pretty fair too.


----------



## Bratwurst

Mtpagey said:


> Some people work nights or are there only limited times you'd prefer the DW forum to be open?
> 
> Its not about a public dislike for rangers or the old firm specifically. The rest of scottish football has had to put up with them monopolising everything to get their own way for so long that its no wonder other fans are laughing down their sleeves.
> 
> Nobody likes to see clubs go out of business but the way that the company running Rangers took advantage and cheated their way through the years has finalyl caught up with them. The process is taking so long cause it has never happened on this scale before... one of the biggest clubs in the country going bust then immediately wanting a clean slate? You cant expect that surely?
> 
> Im not surprised the other teams voted to reject their spl application to be honest. Yes the biggest draw of scottish football for most seem to be Old Firm derby's and not having them will create a massive loss in revenue for the rest of Scottish Football...*yawn!*
> 
> Thats like saying the old Firm are above the law and could never be relegated surely? If that was the case then where's the integrity of the game cause it certainly wouldnt be a "competition" any more. Mind you it hasn't been a competition for that long, anything that does come up in SPL votes only needs the Old Firm to stick together and they can veto anything that doesnt suit them


Some people stay awake all the time thinking about Rangers too, they reply at all times of the day and night.

I'm currently happy with the DW opening hours thanks.

I think you're getting a bit mixed up... over 75% of Rangers fans WANT to go to D3. They don't want to be in the SPL. I think you'll find that it's the other member clubs and fans that are in two minds... they all want some of the the lolly that Rangers provide, but at the same time they want to see them burn.

Such a difficult choice.

Cheated their way??... a rogue accountant wrongly advises Rangers on tax affairs, and you all expect every single financial move from then on to be 'tainted'.


----------



## Bratwurst

Kerr, some are totally fair, and I agree with a lot of what you say, and yes I am pi55ed at the whole situation... I just want some closure as much as everyone else. I mean, it's just so tedious. If the pi5h would just stop and the people who seem to have the right to make sweeping chances/choices would just get their finger's out their rings and do it.
That also goes for Green, who IMO should do what the fans want.


----------



## gally

Lols at obsession. Lets stop talking about cars because you're all obsessed!

It's the biggest story and saga ever to happen in Scottish football and we're not allowed to discuss. A saga that influences every single team in Scotland bar none.

I'll continue to be obsessed if that's what it takes to debate Scottish Football's future.


----------



## Bratwurst

I should maybe add... the way I understand things is, Rangers fans (or the vast majority of anyway) are sick of this. We KNOW the club owners of the past have made mistakes, we KNOW we need to be punished, we KNOW what the precedents are and have been set in the past, BUT this is different, this is one of the clubs which have basically kept the entire system afloat for decades. We KNOW that when we go to D1, D3 or even are expelled altogether, that numerous clubs will go bust. We are merely questioning the sense in killing yourself just to kill another. When faced with this choice, why take the kamikaze route when you don't have to?
I personally don't want to be in this choice and would prefer the rules as set are stuck to and we go down.
Like we all know, it's only fair.
I don't want to be in say D1 or SPL2 forever being looked upon as being in debt somehow to the entire game.
Remember that all these voting structures and rights were agreed by all the member clubs. So all the clubs are to blame for the dependence on the OF. Likewise all the clubs will have to take the repercussions when we hit the 5hit.


----------



## Grizzle

Lorenzo said:


> 2.40am... the obsession is great with you, it seems.
> 
> At that time in the morning my fingers are glad of the rest  never mind getting up to type a story about my dislike of all things Rangers.
> 
> It's everyone except Rangers that are prolonging all of this. Rangers just want decisions made, and made fast, but certain sections of the footballing community (governing bodies, leagues, clubs, mhedia.. sorry media) are doing everything they can to stall processes and push things as far as they can go in an attempt to punish Rangers as much as they possibly can. I know and you know that time alone is adding to the punishment, the same way it did when the finances of the previous company were rapidly going down the pan.
> 
> Why don't you just admit that you want Rangers shut down?
> 
> It's as clear as day that that's what the vast majority of Scottish football want too... yet strangely they all want a piece of the old cash cow eh?
> 
> Ahh decisions decisions... what to do...


Head Nail Hit

:thumb:

Gally... your just instigating things fella.


----------



## Grizzle

Lorenzo said:


> I should maybe add... the way I understand things is, Rangers fans (or the vast majority of anyway) are sick of this. We KNOW the club owners of the past have made mistakes, we KNOW we need to be punished, we KNOW what the precedents are and have been set in the past, BUT this is different, this is one of the clubs which have basically kept the entire system afloat for decades. We KNOW that when we go to D1, D3 or even are expelled altogether, that numerous clubs will go bust. We are merely questioning the sense in killing yourself just to kill another. When faced with this choice, why take the kamikaze route when you don't have to?
> I personally don't want to be in this choice and would prefer the rules as set are stuck to and we go down.
> Like we all know, it's only fair.
> I don't want to be in say D1 or SPL2 forever being looked upon as being in debt somehow to the entire game.
> Remember that all these voting structures and rights were agreed by all the member clubs. So all the clubs are to blame for the dependence on the OF. Likewise all the clubs will have to take the repercussions when we hit the 5hit.


totally agree, infact i want us to go down the pan close it all up case closed lets see "them" survive.

Scottish football is on it knees has been for years being propped up by the OF, i know of 5 people on my wifes Celtic bus that havent renewed there ticket for a number of reasons, The costs and oddly it will be boring according some people.

I'm looking forward to this season it will come to light how crap football is in Scotland.


----------



## allan1888

It's gonna be a pretty boring season for me. Yes I will still support my team but the only games I look forward to is the old firm games now they are gone.


----------



## gally

Grizzle said:


> totally agree, infact i want us to go down the pan close it all up case closed lets see "*them*" survive.


Rangers fans haven't been shown in a great light through all this.

Why not show some humilty and remorse and admit you guys deserve to go to the 3rd division, instead of claiming that other clubs are trying to kill your club. It's mental.

We're trying to implement rules without fear or favour. Why do you want other clubs to suffer? We have done nothing wrong.


----------



## gerz1873

Send us to the 3rd division 
I will get the popcorn in 😃


----------



## Bratwurst

You're right about some Gers fans being shown in a bad light... quite a lot are (understandably, to me anyway) raging at what's going on now, which is leading to a kind of 'if we go down, well you're coming with us' type scenario. I hugely doubt if Celtic were in Rangers' position now the same thing would be happening. Same as always though eh... every club has fans in this mess that are now showing their true colours. The vast majority of 'opposition' from non-Rangers fans has hit levels that a rabid dog would be like, baying for the blood of the dying man in the street. It may sound a bit OTT, but you're a Celtic man, you must have heard it. Likewise, any other clubs fans I've heard... they don't just want Rangers punished, they want them wiped out. They're too ashamed to admit that's what they want, in the same way that they're too ashamed to admit that they need us.

Yet through all this, over 75% on Gers fans WANT D3.. I'd call that humility. Acceptance of the done deeds of the previous owners and a desire to start afresh, even though all through this we've KNOWN how it would play out. You've all been told from the very off (not only by Rangers fans) how it would all go, but instead of the people who pull the strings just doing it and relegating us, they've persisted in mud-slinging and have had their fan-votes and open-air rants, but still the end result is the same, because it basically just has to be this way.

I mean, WTF is Regan on about giving it all that anarchy and bloodshed BS... he's the man who's supposed to be solving things, or at least attempting to help heal the situation, but no he goes another famous rant. Makes it all the more obvious that this is less 'fair punishment' and more 'agenda'

Imagine you bought a house from a guy. A guy in debt. You agreed to buy the house at a knock-down price and use some of it to pay off some of HIS debts. The slate's not clean yet... you get a knock on the door telling you to leave the street, the rest of them don't want you there... it's your punishment for buying over the bust house... strangely though, you're being punished for actually managing to pay off at least some of the debt! Anyway, you move round the corner and again you get harassed to leave the street.
Then along come the council wanting your council tax paid... but because your house is so big the entire neighbourhood suffers and goes without, all due to you being kicked out of town. On top of all of this, the entire neighbourhood hates you, so much so they want you bankrupt and even ceasing to exist... some scenario 

That was quite an accurate wee tale methinks


----------



## gally

gerz1873 said:


> Send us to the 3rd division
> I will get the popcorn in 😃


Don't worry they'll try.

I liked this...



> Malcolm Murray produced pamphlet at SPL meeting which had "WE ARE RANGERS" emblazoned over them lifting SPL trophy on the back.


Great way to win friends and influence people.


----------



## Kerr

Grizzle said:


> totally agree, infact i want us to go down the pan close it all up case closed lets see "them" survive.
> 
> Scottish football is on it knees has been for years being propped up by the OF, i know of 5 people on my wifes Celtic bus that havent renewed there ticket for a number of reasons, The costs and oddly it will be boring according some people.
> 
> I'm looking forward to this season it will come to light how crap football is in Scotland.


Did Rangers fans complain of it being boring in the 90s when Rangers were winning the league by absolute miles from the likes of Motherwell?

Remember those days when Celtic were raiding the "biscuit tin" and Rangers were handed the title on a plate every year?

How come that is viewed as glorious success and now it's the opposite way around it is boring and tainted titles etc?

From what I remember ibrox crowds swelled knowing that victory was certain.


----------



## gally

Lorenzo said:


> You're right about some Gers fans being shown in a bad light... quite a lot are (understandably, to me anyway) raging at what's going on now, which is leading to a kind of 'if we go down, well you're coming with us' type scenario. I hugely doubt if Celtic were in Rangers' position now the same thing would be happening. Same as always though eh... every club has fans in this mess that are now showing their true colours. The vast majority of 'opposition' from non-Rangers fans has hit levels that a rabid dog would be like, baying for the blood of the dying man in the street. It may sound a bit OTT, but you're a Celtic man, you must have heard it. Likewise, any other clubs fans I've heard... they don't just want Rangers punished, they want them wiped out. They're too ashamed to admit that's what they want, in the same way that they're too ashamed to admit that they need us.
> 
> Yet through all this, over 75% on Gers fans WANT D3.. I'd call that humility. Acceptance of the done deeds of the previous owners and a desire to start afresh, even though all through this we've KNOWN how it would play out. You've all been told from the very off (not only by Rangers fans) how it would all go, but instead of the people who pull the strings just doing it and relegating us, they've persisted in mud-slinging and have had their fan-votes and open-air rants, but still the end result is the same, because it basically just has to be this way.
> 
> I mean, WTF is Regan on about giving it all that anarchy and bloodshed BS... he's the man who's supposed to be solving things, or at least attempting to help heal the situation, but no he goes another famous rant. Makes it all the more obvious that this is less 'fair punishment' and more 'agenda'
> 
> Imagine you bought a house from a guy. A guy in debt. You agreed to buy the house at a knock-down price and use some of it to pay off some of HIS debts. The slate's not clean yet... you get a knock on the door telling you to leave the street, the rest of them don't want you there... it's your punishment for buying over the bust house... strangely though, you're being punished for actually managing to pay off at least some of the debt! Anyway, you move round the corner and again you get harassed to leave the street.
> Then along come the council wanting your council tax paid... but because your house is so big the entire neighbourhood suffers and goes without, all due to you being kicked out of town. On top of all of this, the entire neighbourhood hates you, so much so they want you bankrupt and even ceasing to exist... some scenario
> 
> That was quite an accurate wee tale methinks


Personally i've been embarrassed by some Celtic fans but in saying that the majority that I know want Rangers in Div3 for the right reasons.

The "75%" of Newco fans want to go to Div3 out of spite. It's not out of humility of remorse. Well not the 100% of the 75% but you see my point.

Instead of just saying we just want to start again as a new club and work our way up and pay our dues to Scottish Football through the way.

Your house scenario simply doesn't compare. It's not even close i'm afraid. Terrible analogy.


----------



## Kerr

Rangers could not survive in the SPL with the much higher revenue brought through the SPL
.
With little tv exposure, less and cheaper season tickets, sponsorship dropping and with half a squad still on SPL wages and the requirement to sign half a squad, how are Rangers going to survive for the next few years?


----------



## gally

I keep being told that because they "Ra the peepil" they'll be fine. That arrogance got you into this mess in the first place.

I do have sympathy for the genuine fans but most of the ones I see on message boards and twitter have removed most of it.


----------



## Bratwurst

gally said:


> Your house scenario simply doesn't compare. It's not even close i'm afraid. Terrible analogy.


Hey, don't pull any punches now :lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

gally said:


> Personally i've been embarrassed by some Celtic fans but in saying that the majority that I know want Rangers in Div3 for the right reasons.
> 
> The "75%" of Newco fans want to go to Div3 out of spite. It's not out of humility of remorse. Well not the 100% of the 75% but you see my point.
> 
> Instead of just saying we just want to start again as a new club and work our way up and pay our dues to Scottish Football through the way.


Well, what you see and what I/we see seem to to be 2 very different things.

Maybe this is why we can't agree on much


----------



## Bratwurst

gally said:


> I keep being told that because they "Ra the peepil" they'll be fine. That arrogance got you into this mess in the first place.
> 
> I do have sympathy for the genuine fans but most of the ones I see on message boards and twitter have removed most of it.
> 
> This thread didn't help... http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=224890&st=0


While the content of that link is shameful, there's absolutely no need to post that on here! None at all! You've just been annoyed at an unrelated forum thread and now you're trying to use it to somehow discredit us even further.

I could go and sift the 'celtic-minded' forums and reply with something equally as disturbing from your side of the city, but I won't... but don't try to tell me they don't exist.

Pretty poor Gally, no need at all.

You've just taken a reasonable discussion and lowered it hugely.


----------



## Bratwurst

And what were you saying earlier about it not being about kicking people when they're down?

Oh there's no malice, all we want is justice?

Makes my wee house story look like a fooking prize winning novel, and your post look like a bitter attack from nowhere worthy of the gutter press.


----------



## Kerr

gally said:


> I keep being told that because they "Ra the peepil" they'll be fine. That arrogance got you into this mess in the first place.
> 
> I do have sympathy for the genuine fans but most of the ones I see on message boards and twitter have removed most of it.
> 
> This thread didn't help... http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=224890&st=0


My biggest gripe is even though they have just folded and have already had a warning that things are not looking to great, they still think they are invincible and more interested in seeing others getting pulled under.

RM is such a horrible site to read. Not only for the hatred shown to everything other than Rangers, the members themselves are really bitter towards each other too.

Half the threads end up in childish name calling.


----------



## Bratwurst

Strange that, I've never heard a bitter, twisted, offensive Celtic man in my life, nor I have I ever read a squeeky clean Celtic forum. 

Stop trying to come the moral high-ground when your team/club/fans have behaved as irresponsibly as some of ours have through the years. 

You know, I'd LOVE to be a fly on the wall in one your homes to hear what you REALLY think about Rangers fans, because I'll wager my last pound that your not as flawless as you try to make everyone out there believe you are.

I'm not saying I'm a flawless character by the way, far from it, some folk have had a pop at me on here in the past for 'queens eleven' and the such... difference being, I'm happy to admit I like the odd wee wind up (because lets face it there IS a line), you seem to want to highlight certain things but then plead your own innocence.

The thing is, with your leading questions and 'way' there are people out there that see right through the pretence.

Now that you've degraded the thread back to it's almost modded state of a few weeks back, can we leave all the BS behind and talk footy, or at least keep it current?

We all do wrong (no matter how small you look at it), we've all done wrong too, can we not just let it lie and move on?


----------



## Bratwurst

SFL Vote article


----------



## Kerr

Lorenzo said:


> Strange that, I've never heard a bitter, twisted, offensive Celtic man in my life, nor I have I ever read a squeeky clean Celtic forum.
> 
> Stop trying to come the moral high-ground when your team/club/fans have behaved as irresponsibly as some of ours have through the years.
> 
> You know, I'd LOVE to be a fly on the wall in one your homes to hear what you REALLY think about Rangers fans, because I'll wager my last pound that your not as flawless as you try to make everyone out there believe you are.
> 
> I'm not saying I'm a flawless character by the way, far from it, some folk have had a pop at me on here in the past for 'queens eleven' and the such... difference being, I'm happy to admit I like the odd wee wind up (because lets face it there IS a line), you seem to want to highlight certain things but then plead your own innocence.
> 
> The thing is, with your leading questions and 'way' there are people out there that see right through the pretence.
> 
> Now that you've degraded the thread back to it's almost modded state of a few weeks back, can we leave all the BS behind and talk footy, or at least keep it current?
> 
> We all do wrong (no matter how small you look at it), we've all done wrong too, can we not just let it lie and move on?


Football is rarely discussed at my house. The walls don't talk back.

At my parents my dad has no interest in football at all. He has been reading things from the business side of thing and predicted the outcome a long time ago.

I know loads of Rangers supporters and with the exception of the odd one, we can sit and talk football without any issues at all.

It is all the keyboard warriors that are the loudest and there is not a chance they would conduct themselves like that outside their bedroom.

I think half the folk just post bitter nonsense as they will get a rake of reputation points.


----------



## gally

I've removed the offending link chaps. It was more to highlight Scottish Football fans opinion of Newco fans, it's the fact that it's a daily occurrence for some real hardcore, staunch Newco fans. 

Anyway it simply doesn't help to gain some support at a time where they should at least be looking for some. They just went bitter and twisted straight off.

For the record I take your fly on the wall comment very personally. 75% of my friends were Rangers fan and now are Newco fans. I would never lower myself to the level of the morons on both sides. It's a game of football.

I had to unfollow about 20 people on twitter yesterday due to the "HundependenceDay" hastag. A shocking word that simply serves to lower their own iq levels. It's embarrassing.


----------



## Kerr

Lorenzo said:


> SFL Vote article


From a positive side of things, hopefully the cash lost will flush all the fat cats and dead wood out of the SPL and SFA.

I think we all know belts will have to be tightened and no better place to start.


----------



## Bratwurst

gally said:


> 75% of my friends were Rangers fan and now are Newco fans


:lol: It's the same club

Same as When the Tic got their new co. :thumb:


----------



## Bratwurst

Kerr said:


> From a positive side of things, hopefully the cash lost will flush all the fat cats and dead wood out of the SPL and SFA.
> 
> I think we all know belts will have to be tightened and no better place to start.


Here here :thumb:

All this voting structures and 'we're more powerful than you' **** needs to change too. One team, one vote, that's it.


----------



## gally

Oh right. Happy to take on the debts then?


----------



## Bratwurst

Is that for me?

What do you mean?


----------



## cmillsjoe

boy just walked past me wearing a rangers old co shirt how retro


----------



## bigslippy

cmillsjoe said:


> boy just walked past me wearing a rangers old co shirt how retro


Some Celtic fans I know still wearing tops with C R Smith as sponsors:doublesho:lol:


----------



## cmillsjoe

yea but that team is still in existence


----------



## gerz1873

gally said:


> Don't worry they'll try.
> 
> I liked this...
> 
> Great way to win friends and influence people.


I'm not worried and they will not
Don't you know we are Rangers we don't care


----------



## Bratwurst

Some would have you believe that a new company name means new team...

Celtic. 1994. 

Maybe we should go and wind the clock all the way back to then and reclaim some tainted titles from when CFC were renamed but not sent down to D3 like they want now.

Mind you, between then and now, they haven't won a great deal lol.


----------



## Kerr

Lorenzo said:


> Some would have you believe that a new company name means new team...
> 
> Celtic. 1994.
> 
> Maybe we should go and wind the clock all the way back to then and reclaim some tainted titles from when CFC were renamed but not sent down to D3 like they want now.
> 
> Mind you, between then and now, they haven't won a great deal lol.


You would be better reading up about the situation before posting.


----------



## bigslippy

cmillsjoe said:


> yea but that team is still in existence


SFA are trying to put sanctions on a team that no longer exists:doublesho


----------



## gerz1873

gally said:


> Lols at obsession. Lets stop talking about cars because you're all obsessed!
> 
> It's the biggest story and saga ever to happen in Scottish football and we're not allowed to discuss. A saga that influences every single team in Scotland bar none.
> 
> I'll continue to be obsessed if that's what it takes to debate Scottish Football's future.


C****c say they can prosper without Rangers 
So you are talking mince again 😉


----------



## Kerr

bigslippy said:


> SFA are trying to put sanctions on a team that no longer exists:doublesho


No they are not.

They simply can't allow a new team to freely join in the top league.

They are trying to justify promoting the newco higher up the league ladder by imposing sanctions to justify breaking their own rules whilst trying to keep themselves and others sweet.


----------



## bigslippy

Kerr said:


> No they are not.
> 
> They simply can't allow a new team to freely join in the top league.
> 
> They are trying to justify promoting the newco higher up the league ladder by imposing sanctions to justify breaking their own rules whilst trying to keep themselves and others sweet.


Is that your take on it , or you know this to be fact and is written somewhere?


----------



## Kerr

bigslippy said:


> Is that your take on it , or you know this to be fact and is written somewhere?


I think everyone knows that is fact.

The offers put out were conditional. The sfa/spl would let you join the SPL/Div 1 IF you accept the sanctions. They can't enforce them on the newco but if they don't accept the sanction they would not be considered entry to a higher division.

If the newco enter into the 3rd division there would be no sanctions. The reason being is this is the rules and the newco can't have sanctions put in place against them for following the rules.

What the authorities are saying is if we break the rules and allow you to jump leagues you have to accept these punishments as a trade off.

You follow that?

There is no links between old companies or clubs. If it turned out that last season Rangers fielded an ineligible player or bribed an official, no action can be taken against the newco on the field or off the field.

Same as if the dual contracts. Neither the new owners or the current club can be penalised as there is no connection.

The entire slate is clean.


----------



## Bratwurst

Kerr said:


> You would be better reading up about the situation before posting.


I did. I read it on some trashy Celtic forum. 

Two can play at that game. 

Thing is now, who's right and who's wrong, some would say if it's on the internet it must be true


----------



## bigslippy

Kerr said:


> I think everyone knows that is fact.
> 
> The offers put out were conditional. The sfa/spl would let you join the SPL/Div 1 IF you accept the sanctions. They can't enforce them on the newco but if they don't accept the sanction they would not be considered entry to a higher division.
> 
> If the newco enter into the 3rd division there would be no sanctions. The reason being is this is the rules and the newco can't have sanctions put in place against them for following the rules.
> 
> What the authorities are saying is if we break the rules and allow you to jump leagues you have to accept these punishments as a trade off.
> 
> You follow that?
> 
> There is no links between old companies or clubs. If it turned out that last season Rangers fielded an ineligible player or bribed an official, no action can be taken against the newco on the field or off the field.
> 
> Same as if the dual contracts. Neither the new owners or the current club can be penalised as there is no connection.
> 
> The entire slate is clean.


"The SFA have to transfer Rangers' membership from oldco to newco," he said. "That can be done with any conditions attached to it that the SFA board deem fit. We would expect a newco to carry some of the sanctions which would have related to the club had it still been in the previous incarnation. The membership cannot be transferred on financial grounds alone. It has to have a degree of sporting integrity and that means sporting sanctions."


----------



## Bratwurst

Kerr said:


> Neither the new owners or the current club can be penalised as there is no connection.
> 
> The entire slate is clean.


I'll need to remember that one. Time will tell. :lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

It's all about the integrity :thumb:


----------



## Kerr

Lorenzo said:


> I did. I read it on some trashy Celtic forum.
> 
> Two can play at that game.
> 
> Thing is now, who's right and who's wrong, some would say if it's on the internet it must be true


Only when it suits it appears.

Give me a link to the thread as most forums including RM have had people address the situation with fact.


----------



## bigslippy

Lorenzo said:


> I did. I read it on some trashy Celtic forum.
> 
> Two can play at that game.
> 
> Thing is now, who's right and who's wrong, some would say if it's on the internet it must be true


You went on a Celic forum before the 9pm watershed:doublesho:lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

Och FFS I spent all afternoon in a wee cupboard hunting the depths of the interweb for it, I'll go have a look and see if I can find it.


----------



## Bratwurst

Right, I did a google search 'Celtic newco 1994' and up popped loads of threads saying it's BS, but still a fair few saying it's the same. While I tend to the 'it's different' side, there was defo still some odd behaviour going on. 

Like I said, who's right, who's wrong? 

Now I'm all for a bit of banter, but see what we were talking about earlier with the old bigotry... well I can tell you all, it's no different from 'the other side'. I will not be linking any of the stuff I just found, it's only a few clicks away kerr if you want to see the 1994 pages and discussion.


----------



## gally

bigslippy said:


> "The SFA have to transfer Rangers' membership from oldco to newco," he said. "That can be done with any conditions attached to it that the SFA board deem fit. We would expect a newco to carry some of the sanctions which would have related to the club had it still been in the previous incarnation. The membership cannot be transferred on financial grounds alone. It has to have a degree of sporting integrity and that means sporting sanctions."


Sadly the vote yesterday was to transfer the share.

The Newco, and that's what they are will apply to the Sfl for a share and then the Sfa will decide if you get your membership.

That's a formality of course but it's still fact. Rangers Spl share is passed on to Club12. Their Sfa membership is no more and the new club apply just like any new club/company to the league.

Ask yourself this. If a Cva had been agreed Rangers would be in the Spl next season. That's fact.

Because Rangers entity was liquidated they no longer exist. A man has bought everything associated with the old club and transfered it to a new company.

If it was the same club by simple deduction, they would still be in the Spl. They weren't relegated last season so why aren't they in they Spl?

The fact is the new entity weren't relegated, they simply weren't voted in, which tbf isn't even part of the rules. New company applies to Div3 no matter whos assets they bought.

Tbf if the Newco fans want to think the history continues that's fine. I see no problem with that. Whether it's true or not is plain to see imo.


----------



## gerz1873

Club existed before the company 
Club continues after the company 
Simples 😃
Some cannot handle these facts which I sense is difficult to grasp for the cerebrally challenged


----------



## GerryH

No, club existed before the company.
Then club became company, it's own legal entity.
Company to be liquidated, which includes club.
New company formed with new club in league yet be be decided that bought the fixed assets of the old company.

Even the people involved with Rangers said the same until liquidation became the reality. If it was a simple case of a "holding company" owning the club being liquidated why are the players allowed to walk away on free's?


----------



## gerz1873

We keep our history 😃
Unfortunately C****c keep theirs 😝


----------



## Kerr

Before Rangers were liquidated many fans never saw it coming but admitted liquidation is the end of the club and its history. 

Even Charles Green pubilcally spoke that was the case and that is why he and everyone else was more interested in a CVA than liquidation. 

It it hard is it is to accept their is no connection between the old and new other than what was bought from liquidation and people who were protected by employment law. 

Explaining the offside rule to women is no longer the benchmark for unnecessary confusion in football.


----------



## Kerr

Charles Green himself.











I can't see the video I'm looking for, but he clearly defines in both of the above that the only way to continue is with a CVA.


----------



## gerz1873

If the company is the club then why is there a different company running C****c since 1994 
Going by your own warped thinking its the same but different 
Obsession much


----------



## GerryH

Haha, I had to google the Celtic 'newco' too to see what that was all about, don't get the argument. Company check confirms incorporation in 1897 with a name change in 1994.

Of course Rangers (see I can say the name, no **** needed here) have a history and the fans of the newco can lay claim to it if they like but that's what it is "history". PR spin peddled as fact doesn't make it a fact!


----------



## gerz1873

I love talking about our obsession about all things Rangers even with our friends from the east. 
Your right it's history and we keep it but you know that too


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> If the company is the club then why is there a different company running C****c since 1994
> Going by your own warped thinking its the same but different
> Obsession much


Do a little research then come back. I have quickly copied and pasted this for quick reference.

*Anyone wanting a fuller, pernickety explanation of "Pacific Shelf 595 Ltd", read on.

Our club - the present-day Celtic plc - has existed since 1888, and was incorporated as a company in 1897, under the name "The Celtic Football and Athletic Company Limited". It changed its name to "Celtic plc" in 1994, when it became a public limited company, in "one of the most successful stock market flotations in British financial history".

Pacific Shelf 595 Ltd, is a sister company formed two months before the plc was floated on the stock market. Its purpose was, I believe, to carry on the name "The Celtic Football and Athletic Company Limited", to simplify potential business transactions after the actual name of the club changed to "Celtic plc".

So when the original "The Celtic Football and Athletic Company Limited" changed its name to "Celtic plc"... the newly-formed Pacific Shelf 595 Ltd changed its name to "The Celtic Football and Athletic Company Limited", so transactions could still be carried out using that name.

This sister company is still in existence as a distinct entity today, and is still called "The Celtic Football and Athletic Company Limited". It has, I believe, used the name "Celtic Football Club" as a trading name, but it is a very small company - with total capital of £2 - two quid - and exists only for convenience.*

What is warped about it?

Plenty of Rangers fans pre-liquidation accepted that history would be lost before realising liquidation was a real possibility, potential buyers also admitted it, the new owner also admitted it, HMRC said it was and ask a lawyer what the legal position is too.


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> If the company is the club then why is there a different company running C****c since 1994
> Going by your own warped thinking its the same but different
> Obsession much


On another note, have you not realised even though the discussion is about what if happening currently with Scottish football, you are still more interested in bringing up things about Celtic from 18 and 45 years ago.

That is a little more scary than talking about matters that are affecting us now.


----------



## gerz1873

Listen to what your own club say 
That they can flourish without Rangers pity you and other fans cannot concentrate on your own club 
Hope Rangers go to the 3rd division that's enough punishment IMO
Anyway I'm away to dream about Rangers I'm sure you will too 
Sweet dreams


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Listen to what your own club say
> That they can flourish without Rangers pity you and other fans cannot concentrate on your own club
> Hope Rangers go to the 3rd division that's enough punishment IMO
> Anyway I'm away to dream about Rangers I'm sure you will too
> Sweet dreams


We have to wait and see. I realise for one that money is going to go out of Scottish football and I've no idea where Celtic will make up the shortfall.

Celtic has been run very well as a business making sound financial decisions when most clubs are struggling.

I will have to trust the people with the facts and figures sitting in front of the.

I do concentrate on my own club. It is pretty quiet at the moment with not much action going on.

I also concentrate on Scottish football as that is our lifeline. That is what we are members of and where we compete.

It is massive news going on in Scottish football and I can't follow the logic just because you have an interest in what is happening to Scottish football you are obsessed with Rangers.

Sadly you will find I'm not. If it was not for the current situation they get about as much a mention as Aberdeen FC.

It is not me that has to drag up things than are long gone in history just trying to drag others down.

In total fairness of competition the newco should start at the start, that is clear.

In time they will build back up to a top club in Scotland as they have more resources than most clubs can dream of.

Personally I can't see how the Rangers can survive years in the lower leagues with small income, but I do wish them well.

If you read back countless pages on here I have always stated that Scottish football does need the old firm, but I do fully agree with a lot of fair-minded people are saying that the newco can't simply walk back into the SPL.

I also agree it is unfair to offer them the chance to skip leagues if they accept penalties to suit others. It does seem Green is eager for this than starting in division 3. He must have his reasons for thinking this.

I did predict that the newco would be allowed in and I'm still surprised that they did not get voted in, with such a strong vote too.

Many SPL clubs might be putting themselves and the newco in huge trouble.

Time will tell who has the figures correct.

Sleep tight xxx


----------



## bigslippy

Kerr said:


> We have to wait and see. I realise for one that money is going to go out of Scottish football and I've no idea where Celtic will make up the shortfall.
> 
> Celtic has been run very well as a business making sound financial decisions when most clubs are struggling.
> 
> I will have to trust the people with the facts and figures sitting in front of the.
> 
> I do concentrate on my own club. It is pretty quiet at the moment with not much action going on.
> 
> I also concentrate on Scottish football as that is our lifeline. That is what we are members of and where we compete.
> 
> It is massive news going on in Scottish football and I can't follow the logic just because you have an interest in what is happening to Scottish football you are obsessed with Rangers.
> 
> Sadly you will find I'm not. If it was not for the current situation they get about as much a mention as Aberdeen FC.
> 
> It is not me that has to drag up things than are long gone in history just trying to drag others down.
> 
> In total fairness of competition the newco should start at the start, that is clear.
> 
> In time they will build back up to a top club in Scotland as they have more resources than most clubs can dream of.
> 
> Personally I can't see how the Rangers can survive years in the lower leagues with small income, but I do wish them well.
> 
> If you read back countless pages on here I have always stated that Scottish football does need the old firm, but I do fully agree with a lot of fair-minded people are saying that the newco can't simply walk back into the SPL.
> 
> I also agree it is unfair to offer them the chance to skip leagues if they accept penalties to suit others. It does seem Green is eager for this than starting in division 3. He must have his reasons for thinking this.
> 
> I did predict that the newco would be allowed in and I'm still surprised that they did not get voted in, with such a strong vote too.
> 
> Many SPL clubs might be putting themselves and the newco in huge trouble.
> 
> Time will tell who has the figures correct.
> 
> Sleep tight xxx


I knew it , is this you Kerr:doublesho

Last night.* Andy Kerr, of the Rangers Supporters' Assembly*, said: "Our view is crystal clear. We will not have notions of 'integrity' thrown back at us in future. We believe Rangers should be in the Third Division.

"But in this new environment, where chairmen are suddenly listening to their fans, Green and Malcolm Murray should do the same and listen to the 80 per cent of Rangers fans who wish to go to Division Three.

"If they listen, then I can foresee a time when fans' organisations will advise their members to renew season tickets, but at a lower rate to reflect the Third Division status.

"And once that particular lever is pulled, then we will advise as many fans as possible to renew."

:lol::thumb:


----------



## Bratwurst

Green only want's SPL, or D1 at least, because it gives him a company that's worth more money. That's it. It's a business decision for him, and who can blame him?

I defy any Celtic fan to convince me that were the shoe on the other foot, the owner/s of Celtic would be doing the exact same thing right now.  

Simple facts are, Rangers fans want D3, The vast majority of Scottish Football want us in D3, Green wants D1 to make/keep some money, some want us extinct, the powerbrokers want D1 because they want the revenue, and there's the odd club who want us in D1 because they know that if we're not, they're goners.

On a side-note, McCoist's interview last night - Brilliant, fair, sensible and shows everyone how much of a fan he really is. The only threat to Ally's future at the club can only come from Green, because if he can handle all this 5hit, he can handle anything. Legend is banded around these days, but in this case it's well deserved.

Super Ally Rangers Legend. :thumb:


----------



## gally

He definitely deserves the legend tag. Apart from the little panel comment he's behaved very well considering the stress and uncertainty.

Just on "Gerz" point about concentrating on my own club. Although we will more than survive without this Newco it still affects our club. It affects every single fibre of Scottish football for years to come.


----------



## gerz1873

The obsession with Rangers was there long before all this started so please stop with the deflection 
3rd division is now the only option if 'sporting integrity' is upheld
Btw 'Gally' how did your clubs tour of Japan go ?


----------



## gally

I don't think we've ever had a tour of Japan. Grasping at those kinda straws is a tad futile to be fair, especially considering what's facing Newco now.


----------



## gerz1873

Never had a tour of Japan geezo 
I suggest you look into the reason why that tour didn't take place and ask yourself about 'sporting integrity'
Look in before you look out pal


----------



## gally

I know the story behind it. Personally? I don't actually care.


----------



## gerz1873

Now we have it 'sporting integrity' is a one way street 
I suspected as much cheers 'Gally'


----------



## Bratwurst

What happened there?? 

Intriguing...


----------



## gerz1873

You don't care about 'sporting integrity' ?
Wow what a turnaround


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> You don't care about 'sporting integrity' ?
> Wow what a turnaround


Why are you dragging up irrelevant stuff from 4,18 and 45 years ago?

What purpose does that serve on the current situation in Scottish football?


----------



## gerz1873

The imaginary 'tour of Japan' was used by Liewell as as an example of 'sporting integrity' 
Now we are faced with a situation where Spl chairmen and fans of all clubs are calling for 'sporting integrity' to be upheld 
Now when we come to implementing 'sporting integrity' they are backtracking along with their cohorts in the Sfa 
Put Rangers in the 3rd division


----------



## Bratwurst

Is it irrelevant if Celtic preach it now but only a few years back did the opposite?

When you want to pull up a club for something, how far do you go back?

Is there a limit?

Just playing devils advocate here (or should that be devils advocaat - keepin it Gers lol)

I know nothing about this Japan thing, so off for a wee looky


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> The imaginary 'tour of Japan' was used by Liewell as as an example of 'sporting integrity'
> Now we are faced with a situation where Spl chairmen and fans of all clubs are calling for 'sporting integrity' to be upheld
> Now when we come to implementing 'sporting integrity' they are backtracking along with their cohorts in the Sfa
> Put Rangers in the 3rd division


Before the season starts the rules and fixtures are in black and white.

Don't expect favours from anyone and you can't be offended.

It wasn't only Celtic that didn't want an extension to the season.

Other teams didn't want it for various reason including that rescheduling fixtures would disrupt holidays, a wedding and also cost the clubs extra money.

Time to stop being so hung up over what Celtic did in the past. You should have better things to be concerned with.


----------



## gerz1873

The current situation is focusing on what's best for Scottish football 
Well in my book helping a Scottish club to prepare for a European final also helps Scottish football. You cannot be selective about that and to invent a tour of Japan to circumvent that is dishonest and wrong. Liewell should look in before he looks out


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> The current situation is focusing on what's best for Scottish football
> Well in my book helping a Scottish club to prepare for a European final also helps Scottish football. You cannot be selective about that and to invent a tour of Japan to circumvent that is dishonest and wrong. Liewell should look in before he looks out


What evidence do you have to prove that plans weren't in place and just fell through?

5 years before Celtic never got any help either. Celtic had to play games arriving back very late with no preparation time. Yes they did complain too but got no help.

When Celtic did make the final is was mocked badly by Rangers fans. Remember all the diddy cup and consolation cup jibes?

It went from a joke tournament to the most important cup 5 years later. It is this kind of thing that gets people's backs up.

After mocking it for being meaningless, how could they then expect favours later on?

Nobody will ever be happy or see things from the other side, but digging up all this nonsense really has to be left behind.


----------



## gerz1873

“We have reached saturation point commercially in Scotland and Ireland, which are our core markets, and we have to look at other areas, ... First and foremost, Du Wei is here as a footballer whom Gordon Strachan feels has great potential. If we can piggy-back on to that and get commercial benefits from it, all the better. The Chinese market is potentially even more lucrative than the Japanese one and we are already looking at a tour next year taking in both Shanghai and Japan.”


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> "We have reached saturation point commercially in Scotland and Ireland, which are our core markets, and we have to look at other areas, ... First and foremost, Du Wei is here as a footballer whom Gordon Strachan feels has great potential. If we can piggy-back on to that and get commercial benefits from it, all the better. The Chinese market is potentially even more lucrative than the Japanese one and we are already looking at a tour next year taking in both Shanghai and Japan."


Where is this leading?

Why are you trying to pull up all this totally irrelevant stuff from Celtic's past?


----------



## gerz1873

When Rangers fixtures piled up and Rangers asked for flexibility he reiterated the tour would go ahead
Sporting integrity pffft


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> When Rangers fixtures piled up and Rangers asked for flexibility he reiterated the tour would go ahead
> Sporting integrity pffft





Kerr said:


> Before the season starts the rules and fixtures are in black and white.
> 
> Don't expect favours from anyone and you can't be offended.
> 
> It wasn't only Celtic that didn't want an extension to the season.
> 
> Other teams didn't want it for various reason including that rescheduling fixtures would disrupt holidays, a wedding and also cost the clubs extra money.
> 
> Time to stop being so hung up over what Celtic did in the past. You should have better things to be concerned with.





Kerr said:


> What evidence do you have to prove that plans weren't in place and just fell through?
> 
> 5 years before Celtic never got any help either. Celtic had to play games arriving back very late with no preparation time. Yes they did complain too but got no help.
> 
> When Celtic did make the final is was mocked badly by Rangers fans. Remember all the diddy cup and consolation cup jibes?
> 
> It went from a joke tournament to the most important cup 5 years later. It is this kind of thing that gets people's backs up.
> 
> After mocking it for being meaningless, how could they then expect favours later on?
> 
> Nobody will ever be happy or see things from the other side, but digging up all this nonsense really has to be left behind.


That is all.


----------



## gally

Crazy. It really has no relevance. The tour could have been cancelled for a million reasons.

I remember all that help we got for Seville. When we came home after the most important European game in Scottish Football about 40 years and had to play a league decider on the Sunday. 

Who really cares. It's swings and roundabouts.


----------



## gerz1873

The game in question was not a league decider and yes it is crazy to preach something one minute then just forget those principals when it suits


----------



## Mick

can someon explain what celtic playing in Japan has got to do with rangers going into liquidation? im totally lost! (and dont know what the celtic playing in japan thing is about?)


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> The game in question was not a league decider and yes it is crazy to preach something one minute then just forget those principals when it suits


I think you will find it was a title decider when it went down to goal difference. 1 goal in it.

You proved earlier in this thread that you really don't know what you are talking about. We don't know what you are on about either. Pointless drivel.


----------



## gerz1873

It really wasn't a league decider as Rangers could still be caught but they weren't 😃
So really Kerr you just proved yourself WRONG again cheers for that


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> It really wasn't a league decider as Rangers could still be caught but they weren't 😃
> So really Kerr you just proved yourself WRONG again cheers for that


Lol. Just lol.

I will tell you, you are wrong.

You need to stop this bitter anger clouding common sense.


----------



## gerz1873

Your gibbering now Kerr you really are


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Your gibbering now Kerr you really are


Seriously mate. I'm cringing for you.

I'm sure when you calm down are read what you have written the penny will drop.

Just think what you have written........


----------



## Edi1011

Mick said:


> can someon explain what celtic playing in Japan has got to do with rangers going into liquidation? im totally lost! (and dont know what the celtic playing in japan thing is about?)


Just some newco fan trying bit of one-upmanship over Celtc fans to suggest the whole world has been against them and cost them the league title by refusing to extend the season when they got thumped by Zenit before wrecking Manchester.

If Rangers had not requested to postpone league matches before so
many of these European matches that season then there would have been no need to extend the season - as said other teams were forced to play several matches during a short period in the past.

:wave:


----------



## GerryH

Thanks for clearing up the Japan issue, had no idea where that was going.

Here's a good article that I was sent today.

http://fspeirs.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/punishment-and-redress/


----------



## gerz1873

Kerr said:


> Seriously mate. I'm cringing for you.
> 
> I'm sure when you calm down are read what you have written the penny will drop.
> 
> Just think what you have written........


Read what you have written here and please explain where you went wrong AGAIN mate please


----------



## Bratwurst

GerryH said:


> Thanks for clearing up the Japan issue, had no idea where that was going.
> 
> Here's a good article that I was sent today.
> 
> http://fspeirs.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/punishment-and-redress/


I saw Speirs in the link and thought 'no that sack again', turns out it's a different muppet.


----------



## gerz1873

Edi1011 said:


> Just some newco fan trying bit of one-upmanship over Celtc fans to suggest the whole world has been against them and cost them the league title by refusing to extend the season when they got thumped by Zenit before wrecking Manchester.
> 
> If Rangers had not requested to postpone league matches before so
> many of these European matches that season then there would have been no need to extend the season - as said other teams were forced to play several matches during a short period in the past.
> 
> :wave:


Its all about sporting integrity dontcha know


----------



## gally

It's a shame you can't have a reasonable discussion like Kerr mate. 

This isn't a biased Football forum, I like to think the iq levels are a little higher.


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Read what you have written here and please explain where you went wrong AGAIN mate please





gerz1873 said:


> It really wasn't a league decider as Rangers could still be caught but they weren't &#55357;&#56835;
> So really Kerr you just proved yourself WRONG again cheers for that


Think about what you wrote trying to save face.

Rangers could be caught as the outcome of the last games did decide the championship.

Celtic didn't need Rangers to drop points, they just needed a better score.

The championship was DECIDED on the last game of the season by the team with the best result. Both team could win.

Rangers won the title by 1 goal as they beat Dunfermline 6-1 and Celtic beat Killie 4-0.

I can't believe I have had to spell that out. I'm sure everyone else has grasped it was a title decider and even your own statement highlights it was a decider, yet you still want to make an argument.

That is a serious problem when bitterness clouds common sense just so you can get one up when really you have made a plank of yourself.


----------



## gerz1873

My whole point was and still is that your club's game couldn't in it's own decide the title 
I am playing your own game of being pedantic


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> My whole point was and still is that your club's game couldn't in it's own decide the title
> I am playing your own game of being pedantic


It is time to put the shovel down and leave the keyboard.

Just be a man and admit you were wrong and stop going on making yourself look even worse.

All I can see is your point is you are too bitter to have a sensible discussion.

You are dragging up irrelevant past just trying to make an argument.

Really no need.


----------



## gerz1873

Kerr said:


> It is time to put the shovel down and leave the keyboard.
> 
> Just be a man and admit you were wrong and stop going on making yourself look even worse.
> 
> All I can see is your point is you are too bitter to have a sensible discussion.
> 
> You are dragging up irrelevant past just trying to make an argument.
> 
> Really no need.


Jog on mate you dont like what I post block me

You are as bitter as I have ever seen or heard
Stop making out you are either neutral or fair because you are not even close
Btw I know I am biased and not deluded like you :thumb:


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Jog on mate you dont like what I post block me
> 
> You are as bitter as I have ever seen or heard
> Stop making out you are either neutral or fair because you are not even close
> Btw I know I am biased and not deluded like you :thumb:


Lol.

I'm not bitter at all. Just able to have a sensible fact based discussion.

That post is the most ironic I've ever read.

Can a Rangers fan please explain to gerz1873 why when two team go into the last game of the season equal on points and equal on goal difference, the last game was the title decider.

Does anybody else struggle to follow that?


----------



## gerz1873

Both games went to decide the title 
How hard is that to understand ?
Do you really need others to speak for you? Is that what your last post was a plea for ? As I said block me
You say you are not bitter but your posts say otherwise


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Both games went to decide the title
> How hard is that to understand ?
> Do you really need others to speak for you? Is that what your last post was a plea for ? As I said block me
> You say you are not bitter but your posts say otherwise


Oh jeez.

I find you very entertaining.

Please quote one bitter post.


----------



## gerz1873

I find you hilarious deluded and bitter not in any order mind 
What's the point in pointing out specific threads of yours that are unbalanced and biased you wouldn't know that they are 😃


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> I find you hilarious deluded and bitter not in any order mind
> What's the point in pointing out specific threads of yours that are unbalanced and biased you wouldn't know that they are &#55357;&#56835;


As you know there isn't any. I'm opinionated, but my opinions are based on experience or fact.

Kettle, black pot and all that.

The clear facts as proven throughout out this thread, your knowledge of Scottish football and Rangers is very weak.

When you are wrong you can't be man enough to admit you were mistaken.

Sad state of affairs.

If you have nothing constructive to add, can you allow this thread to come back to the SPL in the modern day please?


----------



## gerz1873

There you go again assuming you know more about football than me
We will have to agree to disagree 
You think I'm an idiot 
I know your an idiot


----------



## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> There you go again assuming you know more about football than me
> We will have to agree to disagree
> You think I'm an idiot
> I know your an idiot


I bet I do by a long long way.

Why name calling now?

You didn't even know the most successful Rangers manager. I've never known a Rangers fan to get that wrong.

But anyways, you are dragging this further into the gutter. 2012 please.


----------



## gally

gerz1873 said:


> You are as bitter as I have ever seen or heard
> Stop making out you are either neutral or fair because you are not even close
> Btw I know I am biased and not deluded like you :thumb:


That's so far from the truth. Kerr has added more to this thread than anyone, including myself. Doesn't mean he's right all the time but at least it's thought out.

Have a look at Lorenzo's posts to see how to try and have a reasoned debate and discussion.

You've added nothing to this thread from a discussion pov. Some people are able to look at this situation from both sides. With your sense of us and them and "we are teh peeepil" attitude you'll never be able to do that.

I feel embarrassed I got embroiled in that *** for tat earlier.


----------



## rowbo

Its all a little tragic and boring to be perfectly honest


----------



## Kerr

I apologise for my bit

I just hate when people post nonsense and I should know better to get dragged into it.


----------



## gerz1873

Its funny as I knew I was getting involved in a futile discussion involving Kerr and Gally but it's done now
I apologise to others for my part in it 
I am admitting that I see everything through blue tinted glasses


----------



## Bratwurst

There's some bias going on here too 

Here's a question... There's an SFL vote next week, but Green hasn't applied to the SFL or asked to get into it (as far as I'm aware), plus there's the precedent been set already that RFC should be in D3, so am I right in saying that it's the SFA that have prompted the vote? Why have a vote at all when the rules are already there? Just who is it that's trying to bend or manipulate things here? Or is it RFC/Green?  

The whole thing's doing my box in.

I wish someone would show some nerve and stand up and say, right you D3, and you other lot, deal with it, it's done.

Why is there even a vote at all.

If it had been finalised weeks/months ago, everyone would be in a better place just now because we'd all have had mote time to formulate and carry out some sort of plan to recover. As things are now, nobody can by or sell due to not knowing what's in the pot, never mind even know who's playing who or where!

It's madness. You couldn't make this 5hit up.


----------



## gally

Agreed mate. The Bodies have simply been shown up with their inability to make decisions or even apply basic rules. 

Then again we did sign a contract based on 2 teams being in the same league. It's a sport ffs!


----------



## rowbo

they say that scottish football will die if rangers newco does into D3 !

scottish football died years ago imho  

the spl anf sfl have missed the boat through this saga , this was the best chance they will ever have to revamp our game and try and bring it in line with the rest of europe ! we are the only country that believes our teams should be able to compete in europe yet has a top flight of less than 18 teams !

it needs to be scrapped and started again with 2 leagues ! 

20 team spl and a 22 team sfl is the way to go i think 

just my opinion


----------



## Kerr

Lorenzo said:


> There's some bias going on here too
> 
> Here's a question... There's an SFL vote next week, but Green hasn't applied to the SFL or asked to get into it (as far as I'm aware), plus there's the precedent been set already that RFC should be in D3, so am I right in saying that it's the SFA that have prompted the vote? Why have a vote at all when the rules are already there? Just who is it that's trying to bend or manipulate things here? Or is it RFC/Green?
> 
> The whole thing's doing my box in.
> 
> I wish someone would show some nerve and stand up and say, right you D3, and you other lot, deal with it, it's done.
> 
> Why is there even a vote at all.
> 
> If it had been finalised weeks/months ago, everyone would be in a better place just now because we'd all have had mote time to formulate and carry out some sort of plan to recover. As things are now, nobody can by or sell due to not knowing what's in the pot, never mind even know who's playing who or where!
> 
> It's madness. You couldn't make this 5hit up.


Nobody has ever cleared up why there is votes to allow newco in when they haven't applied.

It is a really odd situation that makes no sense.

Nobody anywhere is making any moves that make me confident things will work out. Everybody seems to be sitting back waiting on someone else making the first move.

The SPL and SFA have put a few votes out and suggested sanctions in accordance with those votes and it is all ifs, buts and maybes.

The newco don't seem decisive on what they want to do either. It appears Green prefers the highest league possible with sanctions, but he doesn't seem to want to commit. He should be knocking the door down to get things sorted, but he hasn't even applied to join a league.

Ally is saying div 3 and possible against the chairman.

Rangers fans haven't been buying season tickets, either waiting to see where they are playing or trying to hope the sale of the club is forced through.

The club doesn't seem to be preparing to play anywhere. They only had 13 players turn up for training and need a squad. So far I think they have tied up one player, Ian Black, with a conditional contract so that isn't even set in stone.

4 weeks before the season start and nothing seems to be progressing. I would be worried.


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## Kerr

There seems to be more noises getting made about Man Utd. 

They are about £450M in debt and struggling more to cover the interest on the debt. 

Another share issue to raise money is a very worrying sign and you can't keep doing that to survive. 

The team are also sliding backwards and I can't see them winning anything with that team. 

I'm sure banks will start to get worried when they look at the Rangers situation where a club valued at £130m, only £5.5m was actually recovered. 

I wonder how much the FA would flap if they went belly up? 

Obviously years ago they were relegated, but now they are the biggest draw for English football around the world.


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## gally

Their assets are worth Billions mate. Debt reduced from 800m to nearly 400m is a good thing though and most of that is owners debt as such. Similar to Abramovich.


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## gally

Probably the saddest thing i've read to do with Scottish Football.

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-vote/2201

"Don't vote the Newco in and we will"


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## Bratwurst

Rangers AND Celtic's biggest enemies (and dangers) in this 'game' are not each other but the people who (attempt) to run the game.

How can these people profess leadership and knowing what we all need, when they change the rules more often than I change my scants?


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## Kerr

gally said:


> Their assets are worth Billions mate. Debt reduced from 800m to nearly 400m is a good thing though and most of that is owners debt as such. Similar to Abramovich.


Currently worth 1 billion. They have reduced debt by selling bonds and shares for a greater amount than debt has decreased from the purchase. There comes a point they can't use those methods to reduce debt further as you will lose control if you sell too many.

The debt is secured against the assets of the club.

Remember Rangers assests were valued at £130m and only sold for £5.5m.

I do think the Rangers situation has worried a few teams and the debt at clubs is really out of control.

Fair enough the Rangers situation has put a dampner on spending up here, but there has been hardly any transfers anywhere this season.

What ever happened to the days when the EPL signed anyone who had a good game at the world cup or european championships?


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## gerz1873

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footb...fans-in-calling-for-his-resignation-1-2399613

Great article in yesterday's Scotsman


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## Kerr

Reasonable article but nothing we haven't really heard already.

So far nothing imposed on Rangers or newco can be deemed unfair though. The 10 points is the rules, the lack of European football is because new clubs have to exist for 3 years before being allowed to enter European competitions, the fines for Craig Whyte are justified but will not be paid, no further sanctions can be placed on the newco unless they agree to accept them as a trade off for possibly starting in division 1. Start in division 3 and nothing can legally and rightly be imposed on them.

I thought this bit in the article would get your back up,

*The SFA want to have their cake and eat it. They wanted to treat Rangers as a "newco" and deny them entry to the SPL. Fair enough, some might say, but now that has been achieved they want to switch back to treating the club like the "oldco" in order to impose punitive sanctions including the unlawful registration embargo, point deductions and possible title stripping.*

He seems to be defining that the titles can't be taken away from the newco as they aren't theirs. You can only take titles from the oldco's history.

Hopefully next week is the end of it.


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## gerz1873

Sfa need to do the right thing and allow the Sfl to decide which league Rangers play in next season. For me there is only one correct decision


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## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Sfa need to make the right do the right thing and and allow the Sfl to decide which league Rangers play in next season. For me there is only one correct decision


What if they decided to vote them out completely?

It doesn't look as if division 1 is a goer.

You can see it from plenty of teams views. Division.1 is usually pretty open with quite a few teams able to win it.

Vote Rangers in and then Rangers sign a few players win the league and they lose a fortune. Fair enough they would get some extra revenue of a few games with Rangers, but a season in the SPL with bigger games every week, tv money and added extra sponsorship would be worth far more.

It would be unfair for money to come out of Scottish football to compensate teams to allow Rangers in division 1.

There was noises that Dunfermline are going to challenge the decision if Dundee get into the SPL and they get dumped into division 1.


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## gerz1873

Never say never, especially in Scottish football, but cannot see them vote Rangers out completely.
Most Rangers fans want to start in Div mainly because of the ott reaction of some to the whole situation and to aviod other sanctions. Rangers fans have suffered enough and for me Dundee deserve the place in SPL


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## Kerr

gerz1873 said:


> Never say never, especially in Scottish football, but cannot see them vote Rangers out completely.
> Most Rangers fans want to start in Div mainly because of the ott reaction of some to the whole situation and to aviod other sanctions. Rangers fans have suffered enough and for me Dundee deserve the place in SPL


The sanctions can't be imposed unless Rangers accept them.

It is obvious the governing bodies want Rangers in division 1.

I can see Rangers forcing the issue and getting to division 1 with lesser sanctions than being banded about.

Aluko can't get a club so apparently will come back for division 1 and that has already changed opinions on where to go.


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## Bratwurst

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Rangers were voted out of the leagues altogether. As we've seen in the past few weeks/months, the game is choc full of vindictive ar5eholes who aren't happy with using the precedent of previous similar punishments, ie. D3, they want us bust, or as close to bust as you can get.

Every club in Scotland needs to stop and think and look and realise, it's only Green from Rangers who would like into D1, if possible, purely from a business point of view, and who can blame him for trying?

Apart from him, the only people wanting Rangers in D1 are the folk running the game up here.

Every single other club in Scotland has either come out and said D3, or have not stood up to say anything. More than half have said D3. 1 club has abstained from a vote. One.

Regan's mob are the one's causing and perpetuating everything now, because we all know what the majority want, they've all told us, so why the wait?

I'll tell you why the wait, because the longer the wait, the more it hurts Rangers. Pure and simple.

The most worrying thing in it all, is that the one body (who are supposed to be fair in it all, impartial or unbiased you could say) are proving themselves with, Regan at the head of it, are nowhere near impartial. Have a quick google search and see for yourself what he 'favourited' on his own personal Twitter page.

If you can't find it for yourself, it involves him 'favouriting' a tweeted picture from a Celtic fan which says 'Farewell to a club steeped in bigotry'.

I'm not looking to stir up a religious thing here at all, this is plain and simple... this is NOT a football thing to him, it's NOT a 'sporting integrity' thing either, it's pure and simple hatred of all things Rangers and a desire to see us punished as much as possible, but at the same time still getting his grubby mitts on the cash we generate.

The rifts and division this has all cost the game is bad enough, but when the one mob who should be trying to uphold all that is good and fair are doing stuff like this, then frankly I see no future at all for anyone. I mean, risking the ENTIRE game, the future of every club just because he doesn't particularly like Rangers, is mental.

Surely Regan should walk here?

Remember he also 'favourited' the tweet about wanting Lee McCulloch hung?...

Are these the actions of a fair person?

I know Rangers can't trust him, but how can anyone if he's prepared to be so cavalier about his likes/dislikes?

How can anyone be sure that in the future he'll help them or their team when they need it?

Will he treat your club fairly if he finds out your gaffer/owner/director is a Rangers man deep down?

Regan needs to walk, they need to accept what the punishment is (like the vast majority of Scottish football already have!) and we all need this precious next few weeks to be getting on and getting ready for the new season.

The time has come for all this petty **** to end.


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## Kerr

If he favoured a post about any player being hung, he should be shot. 

I'm not aware of the context but these people should know better. As should Hugh Dallas with his joke. Even if some think it is harmless humour, there is going to be a backlash and more smear on your name. 

Also when you are applying to the league, you don't have an automatic right of entry. 

If there is a space all candidates can apply and best proposition is accepted to join. 

Charles Green has the facts and figures placed in front of him and I'm sure he will know that the club won't be valuable in the lower leagues and will also lose a fortune. 

He is a business man and is here for money. For him to make money Rangers need to do well. 

I read earlier season books will only be discounted £100 for the 3rd division and fans were not too happy. Even if they play in 3rd division the club still has overheads higher than everyone outside Celtic with their big squad. 

Personally I can't see how the newco can survive 3 years outside the SPL without racking up massive debt. 

There isn't much money in the SPL and there is nothing outside it. 

I know a few players who have played in the SPL and were first team regulars and earn less than me. A few seasons ago when Hearts were paying money I know a guy who was getting £800 per week and that was a huge increase from his division 1 days. 

Rangers have all the overheads of a massive stadium, training facilities, loads of staff plus still half a squad on higher SPL wages. 

Anyone joining Rangers from now on won't join on peanuts either. 

3rd division sounds good to start again rather than other clubs having the ammunition to say you were helped out starting in division 1, it is better than folding before Rangers work their way back up though.


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## Bratwurst

Funny you should bring up the Dallas email issue... do you remember who effectively pushed Dallas out the door?

Regan. 

Regan pushed Dallas out of the door, for what some may say was a joke, some may say was deeply offensive - bottom line, he publicly displayed a lack of impartiality, so he HAD to go. You could say he had to go to maintain sporting integrity. 

Regan has done this twice now on Twitter alone, which in case anyone needs reminding is a world-wide free-for-all for you to air your opinions.

Dallas sent a private email.

Practise what you preach Mr Regan, because not only have you proven yourself to be totally incompetent, you're now showing the world how biased you are too. Or is the bias making you appear incompetent?


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## Kerr

I don't think it matters who was in charge. Dallas had to go for it. 

It wasn't really a private email either. It was sent from his companies email address which isn't personal or indeed private matters. 

The only person at fault was Dallas.


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## gally

The Regan thing, I know the MCulloch thing was so he could pass it on to the poilice.

The other favourite was a link to an Irish Newspaper article which headline read "Farewell to a club steeped in bigotry".

Maybe he wanted to read the article, i've no idea actually wasn't bloody clever though!

I can't believe now, after all the banter Celtic fans took over the conspiracy nonsense, Newco fans are the same. Same with some journos. One side claiming they're biased and the other side claiming the same. If you think about it, it's mental. 

Lawwell is running the SFA etc. 

Hopefully we can get back to the Football soon. Shame there will be no Spl banter next year. Need some more Hearts fans. I'll definitely miss the OF games.


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## Bratwurst

It may not have mattered then, but it matters now Kerr.

He's doing now what a man walked for 2 years ago.

I agree Dallas was to blame. Absolutely. No-one else clicked 'send' on that email.

I'm not challenging Dallas being at fault, I'm saying Regan has now done a similar thing (in displaying a lack of impartiality) and should now too do the right thing and leave.

I'm sure I remember Celtic's main problem was not the content of the email per se, but what it displayed in the man... a lack of impartiality. Some would say bias, or at least the potential for bias.


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## davec

3rd division!!!


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## Bratwurst

Good.

The right choice.

Just waiting now for Regan to make an spl 2 and just do what he wants anyway, regardless of people's feelings.


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## gally

Lols at Spl2. No matter how many times the clubs and fans say no they still want to try. It's beyond crazy!

Anyway it goes someway to clearing this whole mess up. It's a start!


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## gally

@BBCBMcLauchlin

Charles Green told meeting during q"n"a he was informed by SFA that membership of association would be granted only if vote was for div1.


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## Kerr

The never ending story continues.....

Pretty pointless vote if the outcome of the vote was pointless if it wasn't the right outcome.


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## Grizzle

Div 3 case closed move on ppl.


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## Kerr

I'm confused why if Rangers fans wanted the newco to go to the third division that there is now a campaign against the teams that voted against. 

So if you got what you actually wanted why not praise the clubs that gave you what you claim you wanted?


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## k4ith

Kerr said:


> I'm confused why if Rangers fans wanted the newco to go to the third division that there is now a campaign against the teams that voted against.
> 
> So if you got what you actually wanted why not praise the clubs that gave you what you claim you wanted?


This is what i dont understand the last two owners off RFC caused the issue in the first place but they are not outside their houses complaining. when Livy and Dundee had problems they went down and started again so it should be no different for RFC. So the 'never forget' brigade better remember the turkeys who got them there in the first place as I am sure if the boot were on the other foot like a few years ago.


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## ASSASSIN

Kerr time to give it a rest, I find it increasingly annoying that you seem to take great delight in the potential demise of Scottish football.


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## Kerr

ASSASSIN said:


> Kerr time to give it a rest, I find it increasingly annoying that you seem to take great delight in the potential demise of Scottish football.


I don't take any delight in the demise of Scottish football. Where have I said anything of the sort?

Pretty daft observation.


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## gally

ASSASSIN said:


> Kerr time to give it a rest, I find it increasingly annoying that you seem to take great delight in the potential demise of Scottish football.


The demise? Because a club that owed nearly 100 million pounds to the public purse have been liquidated? Behave!


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## Grizzle

gally said:


> The demise? Because a club that owed nearly 100 million pounds to the public purse have been liquidated? Behave!


Oh Gally if only you knew son.


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## Will_G

Do people really think a more competitive league is going to lead to the demise of Scottish football?


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## gally

Grizzle said:


> Oh Gally if only you knew son.


I do know Grizz. If a club has cut it's cloth to suit the existence of one club it deserves the 3rd div. let the good teams prosper.

I want other teams to win the league. I want Celtic to become a team who mixes it with the rest. I want us to share our wealth to help Scottish Football.

Sadly Newco fans still have the air of entitlement about them. That won't help you guys. Just look at the other Sfl clubs.

I can't believe people think Scottish Football is better in the long run with a Rangers incarnation.


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## davec

how come when both halves of the old firm were going to the premiership down south it was to be the beginning of a new era in scottish football, all clubs would be better off we were told. now that one half of the old firm is no longer in the premier league its all of a sudden the end of scottish football? i dont understand whats changed.


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## baz8400

if the idiots that run scottish football had decided on having 2 leagues of 20 instead of the $hit we witness just now then imo a lot of these current issues wouldnt be a problem.


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## jacoda434

gally said:


> The demise? Because a club that owed nearly 100 million pounds to the public purse have been liquidated? Behave!


did rangers not win the case and the HMCR were found to be wrong :doublesho


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## Kerr

jacoda434 said:


> did rangers not win the case and the HMCR were found to be wrong :doublesho


Strange bump after all this time.

The tax case isn't over yet. HMRC have appealed the decision.

It was deemed that the money was loaned to the players. Loaned but never has there and never will there have been a penny paid back.

I'm sure most people will admit the justification is baffling.

The tax case has nothing to do with the current setup. The action is against the old setup and nothing to do with Green's Rangers.


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## Bratwurst

And just as the majority of the rabid anti-Rangers hunting that's gone on before is shown to be under false pretences, the people who did the hunting just can't seem to accept it and stand down.

Phil 3 names, Alex Thompson, Stewart Regan, The SPL 'cabal', The fans groups of the SPL clubs, The BBC, the countless bloggers and countless journos... et al.... they're all foaming at the mouth at the decision.

Seems things are more than slightly beyond a question of taxation...


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## Kerr

Lorenzo said:


> And just as the majority of the rabid anti-Rangers hunting that's gone on before is shown to be under false pretences, the people who did the hunting just can't seem to accept it and stand down.
> 
> Phil 3 names, Alex Thompson, Stewart Regan, The SPL 'cabal', The fans groups of the SPL clubs, The BBC, the countless bloggers and countless journos... et al.... they're all foaming at the mouth at the decision.
> 
> Seems things are more than slightly beyond a question of taxation...


Maybe because the legality of it is questionable to say the least.

That is all HMRC have asked. Asked the courts make a ruling on the matter and obviously have a legal right to appeal. The verdict made the case even more baffling as their justification seems unjustifiable.

You can't put forward a fair argument how all that money was deemed loans. Nobody will ever pay the money back and nobody has ever paid tax on it either.

I'm absolutely sick to the teeth of the nonsense that has gone on this season.

There is some journalist out to make a name and money for themselves which is very true.

However there doesn't seem to be a week that goes by without something to antagonize people to have a reaction.

You make a point about accepting a decision and standing down.

Rangers fans haven't managed to accept their fate after going into liquidation and are hell bent in causing trouble.

Can't have it all ways.


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## Bratwurst

Sick to the teeth of it but commenting/commented in vast amounts on the topic   I'd have thought someone annoyed with the whole thing would have done the opposite and stopped commenting, or maybe you just wanted to see Rangers burn :devil: 

Come one, admit it, you hate Rangers with a passion and you're deeply upset that things haven't gone the way all the f uds in the press and blogs told you it would go


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## Kerr

Lorenzo said:


> Sick to the teeth of it but commenting/commented in vast amounts on the topic   I'd have thought someone annoyed with the whole thing would have done the opposite and stopped commenting, or maybe you just wanted to see Rangers burn :devil:
> 
> Come one, admit it, you hate Rangers with a passion and you're deeply upset that things haven't gone the way all the f uds in the press and blogs told you it would go


I like a good debate on football and thought this matter had been put to bed.

My biggest problem is the anger expressed, the effort to be disruptive to the rest of Scottish football and every other body connected to the SPL and SFA.

I corrected the original post, made a fair point, asked a genuine question you choose to skip and all you want to do is attack.

I wouldn't have responded if more inaccurate posts have been made.

See what I mean?


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## Bratwurst

I don't really need to reply when a tribunal that has sat for about 6 months has given everyone the answer. If you and the rest of the fans of other clubs out there can't take it then that's your problem. You've been going on and on and on about this and you've said yourself you're 'sick of it', then when you get the judgement you still can't take it.
Oh dear...

Oh, and what you thought was me going on the attack was just me defending.


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## Mick

Lorenzo said:


> you just wanted to see Rangers burn :devil:


I wanted to see Rangers burn...

(...And Celtic
And Dunfermline
And Dundee Utd
And partick thistle
And motherwell FC)

And all the other teams in the SPL and SFL. its embarrasing how wound up peole get over a game in this country, embarrasing and ridiculous. and thats not a go at either team, all teams are equally guilty in it, and these p1ssing phone ins that go on on the radio EVERY DAY that always seem to be full of bigoted idiots with only half a clue from both sides of the divide do nothing to help the matter, they just egg it on.

Why can everyone realise that its only a game, support who you want to support, and let the other supporters get on with it...

so Rangers got let off for their tax by a judge. that was the judges decision, so who cares? let them get on with it, good on em, why does it need to be such a hoo-ha?

I realise this post couldnt really be any less helpful (or invisible), but Football does my nut in. people take it all far too seriously...theres more important things to life. can we no all just have a FRIENDLY banter about the game and get along without getting caught up in the big game politics of tax cases/newcos, which really when you get right doon to it, havehee-haw to do with 22 guys kicking a baw about a field

:thumb:
:thumb:
:thumb:


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## Kerr

Lorenzo said:


> I don't really need to reply when a tribunal that has sat for about 6 months has given everyone the answer. If you and the rest of the fans of other clubs out there can't take it then that's your problem. You've been going on and on and on about this and you've said yourself you're 'sick of it', then when you get the judgement you still can't take it.
> Oh dear...
> 
> Oh, and what you thought was me going on the attack was just me defending.


The reasoning given was absolutely laughable.

You do understand what the term loan mean?

It is standard practice when a ruling is wrong/potentially wrong there is a right of appeal.

It doesn't matter to Charles Green's Rangers anyways. The money is either owed by the players who got the loan or Murray's company.


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## Bratwurst

Your honesty is appreciated Mick lol

ps - nice secret work


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## Bratwurst

Of course I know what a loan is, and so it seems did the tax tribunal. 

'It is standard practice when a ruling is wrong/potentially wrong there is a right of appeal.'

But that's the point Kerr, the reason *was* given. The ruling was made. The ruling that the entirety of Scottish Football wanted made has been made, yet there you go again just saying it's wrong.

Wrong in your eyes, but right in Rangers/my/tax tribunal's eyes...

What I'm going to do now is leave this thread and leave you to fester in your bitterness at a decision going against you.


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## Hotchy

well.... were having a party in the champions league!!!! Also because we got to the last 16, every club in the spl gets another 250k  

armageddon armageddon nananana
armageddon armageddon nananana 
armageddon armageddon nananana
armageddon armageddon nananana


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## Mick

Lorenzo said:


> Your honesty is appreciated Mick lol
> 
> ps - nice secret work


I was beginning to wonder if I was alone in my thoughts there, I do think people take it all to heart when there's really no need. Maybe I just see it that way because. Not a massive football fan, I dunno?


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## Kerr

Kerr said:


> The reasoning given was absolutely laughable.
> 
> You do understand what the term loan mean?
> 
> It is standard practice when a ruling is wrong/potentially wrong there is a right of appeal.
> 
> It doesn't matter to Charles Green's Rangers anyways. The money is either owed by the players who got the loan or Murray's company.





Lorenzo said:


> Of course I know what a loan is, and so it seems did the tax tribunal.
> 
> 'It is standard practice when a ruling is wrong/potentially wrong there is a right of appeal.'
> 
> But that's the point Kerr, the reason *was* given. The ruling was made. The ruling that the entirety of Scottish Football wanted made has been made, yet there you go again just saying it's wrong.
> 
> Wrong in your eyes, but right in Rangers/my/tax tribunal's eyes...
> 
> What I'm going to do now is leave this thread and leave you to fester in your bitterness at a decision going against you.


I'm not bitter and you need to stop throwing that nonsense in my face.

My opinion is rational, very fair and you will find many impartial people will fully agree.

Glad you understand what a loan is, so I'm sure that you will understand that since not one penny of the money has been paid back or even will be paid back, it isn't a loan in any sense of the word.

The SFA still have to rule on the dual contract side of things though.

Since it has no bearing on the current setup and wasn't the reason the previous was liquidated, there isn't much to keep banging on about.


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## A9X SJ

Scottish Football is brutal these days it's all about the Premierships as it's so exciting!

Used to go all the time to Raith Rovers still have my memories from the Cup Final in 1994

They need to restructure the whole leagues none of this split caper etc!


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## Kerr

A9X SJ said:


> Scottish Football is brutal these days it's all about the Premierships as it's so exciting!
> 
> Used to go all the time to Raith Rovers still have my memories from the Cup Final in 1994
> 
> They need to restructure the whole leagues none of this split caper etc!


Scotland has too many teams for the population.

Although Celtic are left in no man's land, it has been a good season for many other teams. I think more supporters are enjoying this season than any in a long long time.

By head of population more people go to top league games in Scotland than England.

The English premier is good and I watch a fair amount. Like most leagues you get a couple of strong teams leaving the rest for dead.

Unless you support one of the weaker teams in the league it is hard to get excited. Some of the football on offer down there is pretty hard to watch.

I watched the Southampton v. Arsenal game earlier and it was awful to put it mildly.

Spanish and German football has left England behind in overall terms or quality.

I've said for a while the quality of the EPL has been slipping and this has been proven in Europe although Chelsea did win the champions league last year.


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