# Chemical Guys Grim Reaper



## 306chris (Jan 27, 2007)

Has anyone used this stuff as it sounds really good, but could just be marketing


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

i ve got some to try


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## Mr Shiny (Oct 29, 2005)

WHIZZER said:


> i ve got some to try


i would like to know what the stufff is like aswell mate :thumb:


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

got a link? what is it


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## Mr Shiny (Oct 29, 2005)

http://www.carwashnwax.com/ and then look under whats new section


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

oohh stronger than acid hey? might be okay for alloy engine bits


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## 2548 (Jul 19, 2006)

I was going to order some, I will wait and see if anyones tried it yet


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

stronger than acid is a bit vague isnt it?


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## Skodaw (Mar 19, 2006)

Maybe we could get davidg to do some samples of this product -- I have seen it on the site and wondered also :thumb:


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## 2548 (Jul 19, 2006)

steveo3002 said:


> stronger than acid is a bit vague isnt it?


 I hope it is supplied in Nasa approved vacuum flasks !!! LOL:thumb:


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## 306chris (Jan 27, 2007)

I'm new to this and i know wonder wheels isn't too good for your wheels becasue it is an acid, this grim reaper stuff si an akali, if it is then wont this be just as bad! 

Or have i been mis-informed?


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## barber (May 8, 2006)

im sure David replied in another thread.

i dont think its acidic, its a strong degreaser/ APC type product, not a typical alloy cleaner i.i.r.c, i think it just makes up the CG's degreaser part of the market,

maybe he will clear it up


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## daveb (Aug 9, 2006)

it is a very strong alkali, think it is best left for those bits that just cant be shifted with wonder wheels or megs wb


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Hopefully, David will be fetching us a gallon of this stuff down to our Leeds Charity demo day on Sunday - For us to try out on multiple vehicles. I'm sure that our findings, backed up by those of the visitors to our day will be posted up here in due course.

It does sound an interesting product:thumb:


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## fjs (May 12, 2006)

CG do not know what they are talking about and are making an unsubstantiated and meaningless claim. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_dissociation_constant

DO NOT use on alloy. Ever.


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## fjs (May 12, 2006)

306chris said:


> I'm new to this and i know wonder wheels isn't too good for your wheels becasue it is an acid, this grim reaper stuff si an akali, if it is then wont this be just as bad!
> 
> Or have i been mis-informed?


You are not misinformed. You are correct.


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## barber (May 8, 2006)

im sure its not a really strong alkali either


from what i have been told, it is simply a strong degreaser/ APC

non corrosive


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## ianreeves (Jan 21, 2007)

Would it be good for engine cleaning.....  

The name alone makes it worth a go :thumb:


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Used this today on the majority of the Astra-Sri.co.uk wheels. We did have to use Megs Wheel Brightener on 1 or 2 tougher sets though.

I liked it, it worked very well. That well infact that I bought a gallon:thumb: 

Hopefully there will be a few pics make it up pretty soon of the day.


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

i had a go with mine today ... my wheels are pretty well looked after ... they are wheel waxed.

i used it today and it cleaned really well , diluted 1.4 part water 

ill try and post some pics later


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## Autovogue (Oct 1, 2006)

L200 Steve said:


> Used this today on the majority of the Astra-Sri.co.uk wheels. We did have to use Megs Wheel Brightener on 1 or 2 tougher sets though.
> 
> I liked it, it worked very well. That well infact that I bought a gallon:thumb:
> 
> Hopefully there will be a few pics make it up pretty soon of the day.


would you say it was reasonable replacement for the wheel brightener, or do you need to test more?


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

baz said:


> would you say it was reasonable replacement for the wheel brightener, or do you need to test more?


I got it more as replacement for a rather stinky wheel cleaner (P21s pink)

I'll keep testing the GR and see how it compares:thumb:


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## fjs (May 12, 2006)

If you use it on alloy you will destroy it. I do not know the composition of wheel alloy, but engines will certainly be wrecked. CG say it is Sodium Hydroxide. Dilution will not help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hydroxide#Aluminum_etching


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

Steve done the obligatory test by spraying on his hands ,if its caustic it does him damage ,and as far as i know he didnt feel any pain


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## fjs (May 12, 2006)

david g said:


> Steve done the obligatory test by spraying on his hands ,if its caustic it does him damage ,and as far as i know he didnt feel any pain


I'm afraid you do not understand caustics. That is not a valid test. You do not feel pain on hand exposure to a strong base. Your hand feels soapy as the epidermis is eroded.


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

We will get an effective answer from the manufacturer as to the full chemical make up and report back :thumb:


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## Refined Reflections (May 12, 2006)

fjs said:


> I'm afraid you do not understand caustics. That is not a valid test. You do not feel pain on hand exposure to a strong base. Your hand feels soapy as the epidermis is eroded.


Well I've used Grim Reaper, in fact almost finished my first gallon of it, I have used it on all wheels including super soft Porsche split rims and also polished alloys with no clear coat. My findings are it works, better than Blue rim but doesn't really shift the bad brake dust on some wheels, thats where something stronger is needed. Absolutely zero damage to any wheel or finish, even when used neat on some polished BBS 

If we are going to discuss Acid verse Alkaline, Alkaline is stronger than acid, however it also needs longer to do the same work, so if used in the same way as acid it does less work (dwell time), as such its less corrosive/kinder to wheels.

Skin test is not a fair one I agree, but spraying it on my hands I can tell the difference, the reason being I normally have paper cuts or metal cuts on my hands so open wounds, Grim Reaper stings an open cut a little and can be ignored, Megs WB sprayed on the same sort of cut will send me through the roof and looking for water to wash it out.


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## fjs (May 12, 2006)

Refined Reflections said:


> If we are going to discuss Acid verse Alkaline, Alkaline is stronger than acid, however it also needs longer to do the same work, so if used in the same way as acid it does less work (dwell time), as such its less corrosive/kinder to wheels.


I am afraid that statement is meaningless. Chemical Guys say the product contains Sodium Hydroxide. Sodium Hydroxide destroys light alloys.


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## Refined Reflections (May 12, 2006)

Then can I suggest that instead of quoting information you go outside and try Grim Reaper.

Rather than just stating what you think you know, than quoting from experience, unless you are questioning my finding through tests on many different cars?


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## fjs (May 12, 2006)

Refined Reflections said:


> Then can I suggest that instead of quoting information you go outside and try Grim Reaper.
> 
> Rather than just stating what you think you know, than quoting from experience, unless you are questioning my finding through tests on many different cars?


I know, and I have quoted understandable references. I think it is inappropriate that I list my degrees and the laboratories I ran on this forum site.

You are advancing the argument that you sell and use the product , so it must be OK.

I am saying that Chemical Guys make bizarre statements about the product, but do state clearly that it contains Sodium Hydroxide. Sodium Hydroxide destroys light alloy. It etches it. You may not like it, but that is Chemistry.

There are therefore risks in using it, which could well be greater than those normally associated with detailing products.


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## Refined Reflections (May 12, 2006)

Not at all disputing your credentials or facts you are quoting, however I am saying try it rather than telling me what you think you know without using it first.

Yes I am authorised by CG's, I do however get nothing for promoting their range, I'm also more than happy to post it as I find, whether its good or bad, I post my finding on tests rather than speculation and conjecture. I don't know everything and I'm still learning.


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## 2548 (Jul 19, 2006)

Mr Muscle oven cleaner works, so says my brother, but I think I will give it a miss I am going to try the CG's stuff:thumb: If the wheels are adequately washed post Grim Reaper whats the problem? As I understand it, its not to be regularly used ? Lots of products can damage sufaces depending on length of exposure. If used responsibly I don't see how its is more damaging than a kick ar5e bathroom cleaner on your best enamel ?


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

i think what we have to find out is exactly how much of this Sodium Hydroxide is contained in the product.:thumb:


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## satnam (Oct 27, 2006)

On another note i popped in to my local pound land to have a look at there cleaning products  I saw some MF mitts i was in two minds when i was there :wall: so i grabbed one of there £1 cd's haha and done the cd test whilst i was in the shop.. it passed  so i baught a hand full of them... i also got some of there carplan alloy wheel foam cleaner.. and imho it does a better job than my megs hot wheels bottle..  as you can actually see it breaking down the dirt with ease.. no sponge required just PW off 

Some good bits n bobs sometimes at these stores..

Sat :thumb:


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## Autovogue (Oct 1, 2006)

fjs said:


> I am afraid that statement is meaningless. Chemical Guys say the product contains Sodium Hydroxide. Sodium Hydroxide destroys light alloys.


just to point out that 99% of all alloy wheels are painted, so unless there is damage to the paint on the wheel, the cleaner will not physically touch, the alloy metal of the wheel.

using an alkali wheel cleaner is no worse, than using an acid based one. as usual with these chemicals, there has to be certain precautions taken with there use.


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## fjs (May 12, 2006)

baz said:


> using an alkali wheel cleaner is no worse, than using an acid based one.


I would not have posted several times in this thread unless I thought a caustic cleaner held a potential for greater damage than, say, 0.1M HCl, which is Wonder Wheels. Grime Reaper is claimed to have wider use. Read the web site.

I have seen alloy castings destroyed by caustic base exposure. This is not conjecture.

My main concern, as I have posted, is that someone try it on an alloy engine block. I think it is better that I express concern in a thread than someone wreck their vehicle.

I do not accept the Refined Reflections empiricism argument - try it and see - because here I see a risk that I do not see with other products. Again, I have seen destruction elsewhere and do not want to replicate it.

This is my last post on this subject. As someone else pointed out, we need a data sheet.


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## Refined Reflections (May 12, 2006)

Also my last post to you fjs

I have offered my experience, results and findings which as a professional full time detailer I take very seriously, and only post my results when I am sure of the findings. I challenged you to test it as I have found this site as well as many others have people who are very well versed in theroy and post their views but when tasked with actually using something really have no idea.

As I have said I have used Grim Reaper on Porsche split rims, BBS polished alloys and countless other wheels and NEVER repeat NEVER had a single issue with damage even when used NEAT.

I totally agree that Sodium Hydroxide when used in the wrong concentrations will cause damage however Sodium hydroxide is used in the manufacture of paper, soap, rayon, in oil refining, and in the textile and rubber industries. So you can't say its always bad news


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## 306chris (Jan 27, 2007)

Refined Reflections said:


> Also my last post to you fjs
> 
> I have offered my experience, results and findings which as a professional full time detailer I take very seriously, and only post my results when I am sure of the findings. I challenged you to test it as I have found this site as well as many others have people who are very well versed in theroy and post their views but when tasked with actually using something really have no idea.
> 
> ...


Bloody hell,

all i was looking for was yes/no answer (lol) any way in my experience the man who works with his hands for a living has the best experience so I'm sold and a large bottle is on its way to me (along with other items) and if my wheels rot away then so be it.

My wheels have never been cleaned properly and inside the rims are black, I'll post some pics as each whell is coming off for a bloody good clean.

See y'all soon


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

fjs/Gary - keep it friendly or to PM's please chaps :thumb: Seems David's sorting the issue


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## wilbz11 (Jun 23, 2006)

ill go with Refined Reflections on this issue as a full time professional detailer he's not going to use something that will be bad for business and damage customers vehicles.


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

I think the answer is simple and from me non biased

I am yet to try a product in the CG range that isn't 'any' good! They have all really impressed me. Indeed my only criticism would be that some of the products are not strong enough!!

If any one wants a really strong cleaner that can cause damage try megs wheel brightner which as someone who knows how to use it I also rate it!

PS if you think sodium hydroxide is bad wait till you see the concentrations in Megs WB!! :lol:


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## Autovogue (Oct 1, 2006)

Brazo said:


> I think the answer is simple and from me non biased
> 
> I am yet to try a product in the CG range that isn't 'any' good! They have all really impressed me. Indeed my only criticism would be that some of the products are not strong enough!!
> 
> ...


personally i don't think the megs WB is any where near as bad as the Autoglym trade wheel cleaner, NEVER spill it on a concrete drive.


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## Andy_Green (Oct 27, 2005)

by chance i've just decided to run my 3rd group buy for wheel brightener if your wanting to try a sample, details are here


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