# Been screwed over with car finance!



## jamieblackford (Jan 17, 2012)

August 2010, I purchased a car from Bristol Street Ford on finance, which I was led to beleive was on a hire purchase basis. I bought a fiesta Zetec s on 5 year deal and was told I could upgrade for a fiesta ST two and a half years on. Well that two and a half years is this month so I went down to the garage, only to be told my car is on a fixed sum loan agreement! I've basically bought the car in full with a loan that Ford set up for me, and no option for a voluntary termination like you can in a hire purchase agreement. I was looking to return my car and take out a new finance with a small transit connect Van but now I can't. It looks like I have to sell my car myself, and use that toward paying the rest of my loan off, or part ex my car in a new agreement against a van, and continue paying off my loan monthly as I am now. Anybody else been in this situation? Feel like I've been really done over.


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## TJenkos (May 6, 2009)

You signed the paperwork..


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## jamieblackford (Jan 17, 2012)

TJenkos said:


> You signed the paperwork..


Thanks for the advise


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

He has got a valid point...it would have all been there in black and white fella.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

jamieblackford said:


> Thanks for the advise


Its true though, always read the small print, take nothing for granted. However if you pay the loan off in full i assume you can walk away ? YOu should be able to PX it but the dealer would settle the finance and deduct this from the next car.

Do you have negative equity - is the loan worth more than the car ?


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## jamieblackford (Jan 17, 2012)

I very much doubt the car wouldn't be worth what I owe.


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## Method Man (Aug 28, 2009)

What evidence do you have that you were under the impression you were entering into a contract for hire purchase?

If you have none other than seeking to rely on a verbal assurance given by some 'knobber' at the dealer then it'll simply be a case of your word against theirs (i.e. unprovable by you) and the actual paperwork will be the evidence of the intention to contract.

Looks like a time for some damage limitation. Don't rush into making a rash decision just yet - think over all your options. Have you exhausted all negotiations with the dealer as regards to coming to some deal or other that you'd be happy with?


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Bit confused here Jamie..
What you are saying is that your car is on a personal loan so therefore you can sell it. Trade it in or whatever you like as no finance company has an interest in your car ?

So do just that mate ? It may even be beneficial to sell the car privately and move forward with cash to secure a healthy discount !

The new Ford "Custom" Van that has replaced the Connect van looks a cracker !!


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Did you think you were getting a PCP ?


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

SteveTDCi said:


> Its true though, always read the small print,


You wouldn't even need to look at the small print to see the difference between a standard loan and HP/CPC type arrangement.

Simply put there will be nothing you can do as it will be your word against theirs so unless you have something to back you up you will get no-where.


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## jamieblackford (Jan 17, 2012)

I have no evidence. I know I don't have a leg to stand on and I should of gone over the contract with a fine tooth comb, but when it's put in front of you and look at the figures and they add up I just signed it believing what was told me. I haven't started any real negotiations with the dealer, I'm taking the paperwork down to them tomorrow because the person I spoke to seems to think they don't do this sort if thing. I'll see what I can get but as said I can't see them paying off the rest for me because the vehicle won't be worth what is owed. In a way I'm glad I own the vehicle fully do I don't have to deal with them again and can take my business elsewhere.


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## jamieblackford (Jan 17, 2012)

:devil:


ChuckH said:


> Bit confused here Jamie..
> What you are saying is that your car is on a personal loan so therefore you can sell it. Trade it in or whatever you like as no finance company has an interest in your car ?
> 
> So do just that mate ? It may even be beneficial to sell the car privately and move forward with cash to secure a healthy discount !
> ...


Yes Chuck the car is on a personal loan so I have purchased the car, but have taken out a loan to do so. But I'm certain the car is maybe worth between £3,000 and £4,000 and I owe just over £5,000 on the loan still. But I'd still be left with payment to make on it where as if it were on HP finance the remaining payments would of been terminated.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Its not that uncommon for dealers to do this but most will be very upfront.

Not saying its the case with you but "personal loan" agreements have historically been offered to customers who have failed acceptance by "first / second string finance houses" and they then move on to smaller lenders.

Barclaycard have been quite prevalent in this area in the past

Sadly its a classic case of "check what you are signing"


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## Hasan1 (Jul 1, 2011)

jamieblackford said:


> :devil:
> 
> Yes Chuck the car is on a personal loan so I have purchased the car, but have taken out a loan to do so. But I'm certain the car is maybe worth between £3,000 and £4,000 and I owe just over £5,000 on the loan still. But I'd still be left with payment to make on it where as if it were on HP finance the remaining payments would of been terminated.


That kind of deal is only done on a 2 or 3 year deal and a bulk payment at the end. Then you give the car back and pay for any extra mileage on the car and sometimes any damage never on a 5 year deal


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## jamieblackford (Jan 17, 2012)

andy665 said:


> Its not that uncommon for dealers to do this but most will be very upfront.
> 
> Not saying its the case with you but "personal loan" agreements have historically been offered to customers who have failed acceptance by "first / second string finance houses" and they then move on to smaller lenders.
> 
> ...


My dealer certainty wasn't up front with this. I had a car on HP finance with them previous to the car I have now, and traded that in at the halfway point and said I'd like to upgrade same again etc to get my current car. I initially wanted a Fiesta ST but they didnt have one, so settled for a Zetec S and the manager actually said to me " and in 2 and a half years time you can come back again and upgrade to your ST then" with a big fat grin on his face. I know it's no evidence but you wouldn't go in to a dealer and think everything they're about to tell you is a lie. Can't beleive I never checked and double checked everything.

To make matters work the manager said to me "il give you 2 years warranty free, 12 months Tax Free, and we'll throw in £20 petrol for you free". Guess what? It's all hidden in there and I paid for it all.


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## jamieblackford (Jan 17, 2012)

Hasan1 said:


> That kind of deal is only done on a 2 or 3 year deal and a bulk payment at the end. Then you give the car back and pay for any extra mileage on the car and sometimes any damage never on a 5 year deal


My previous car was over 5 years and they had that back off me at the half way point. Sure your not on about Lease?


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## keithjeb (Nov 25, 2012)

Hasan1 said:


> That kind of deal is only done on a 2 or 3 year deal and a bulk payment at the end. Then you give the car back and pay for any extra mileage on the car and sometimes any damage never on a 5 year deal


Thats PCP, effectively a lease agreement, not HP which is more like rent to own, and after paying half the outstanding you can hand it back and have the rest written off regardless of value of car.


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## Hasan1 (Jul 1, 2011)

jamieblackford said:


> My previous car was over 5 years and they had that back off me at the half way point. Sure your not on about Lease?


So is the loan in your name or on the car


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

jamieblackford said:


> :devil:
> 
> Yes Chuck the car is on a personal loan so I have purchased the car, but have taken out a loan to do so. But I'm certain the car is maybe worth between £3,000 and £4,000 and I owe just over £5,000 on the loan still. But I'd still be left with payment to make on it where as if it were on HP finance the remaining payments would of been terminated.


Right.. Sorry I misunderstood.. I thought you had said the car was worth more than you owed on it......

Hope you are able to get out of it !..........:thumb:


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## Hasan1 (Jul 1, 2011)

jamieblackford said:


> :devil:
> 
> Yes Chuck the car is on a personal loan so I have purchased the car, but have taken out a loan to do so. But I'm certain the car is maybe worth between £3,000 and £4,000 and I owe just over £5,000 on the loan still. But I'd still be left with payment to make on it where as if it were on HP finance the remaining payments would of been terminated.


The only thing I can think of is if you call the finance company up and find out how much it would be if you pay it early should take the apr off for the next 2and a half years so the sale of the car may cover the cost of the loan


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## Method Man (Aug 28, 2009)

I'm sure that with the right approach there's still a deal to be done here with the dealer.

If you've had an HP agreement with them in the past then that may bolster your claim (and maybe negotiating position) that you were, in some way, mis-sold your current agreement arguing on the simple basis of why would you want to change to what seems to be an onerous agreement when you'd made your proposed upgrade clear at the time of purchase (albeit some time ago now).

Set your stall out with what you want: the dealer tearing up the agreement isn't likely so don't bank on that but try and work out something which'll get close.

You may well be surprised and be not that many pounds out of pocket at the end of the day.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I'm guessing the first car you had was also rolled into the finance of the second car.

If it was me i would sell the car for what it is worth, pay off as much of the finance as possible then get a 0% credit card and pay off the remainder. Then go out and buy a £500 banger and run it until you have cleared off your debt and have enough money for a deposit. A nice car isn't worth a bad debt.


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## jamieblackford (Jan 17, 2012)

Hasan1 said:


> So is the loan in your name or on the car


The loan is in my name.


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## jamieblackford (Jan 17, 2012)

SteveTDCi said:


> I'm guessing the first car you had was also rolled into the finance of the second car.
> 
> If it was me i would sell the car for what it is worth, pay off as much of the finance as possible then get a 0% credit card and pay off the remainder. Then go out and buy a £500 banger and run it until you have cleared off your debt and have enough money for a deposit. A nice car isn't worth a bad debt.


No mate they took my old car back, and cleared any payment I owed since I was getting taking out a new deal.


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## staffordian (May 2, 2012)

jamieblackford said:


> To make matters work the manager said to me "il give you 2 years warranty free, 12 months Tax Free, and we'll throw in £20 petrol for you free". Guess what? It's all hidden in there and I paid for it all.


Not trying to defend the dealer, but it may be that even though you are getting these "free", the dealer has to account for them. So if they add up to, say, £500, they list them as paid, but then add the £500 on to the p/x value, or discount the price of the new car by this amount.

It keeps the accountants happy :lol:


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## jamieblackford (Jan 17, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies and sound advice. Hopefully as has been said some kind if deal can be struck out with the dealer, and me having a previous car with them also could swing in my favour. But at the same time I'm not looking forward to going into business with them again. Since the car is 100% mine I guess I can sell it to whoever, so I should be able to get a few different quotes from other dealers or maybe sell private to get the best price for my car. 

One option I had thought of was getting an estimate for my car, and trying to get a van around the same price and part ex mine for the van. And continue to pay my monthly payments for the next 2 and a half years, since I was expecting to get another and pay roughly the same amount per month anyway.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Anybody who works in a dealership that comes out with a statement like

"You can bring it back in two and a half years and upgrade with no problem" needs to be treated with caution

Whilst such a statement is not technically incorrect it could easily be construed as misleading

Anyone who buys a car, whether it be with a personal loan, HP or PCP can upgrade the car they have at ANY point in time BUT there may be big £ involved

Its just common sense - no one knows how the market will be in 6, 12, 18 months time - its impossible to make such a sweeping statement and tbh I'm surprised that people take such statements at face value


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## cts1975 (Feb 22, 2011)

Going back to the same dealer isn't the best solution IMHO. The type of dealer that misleads in the first place isn't the best dealer to by you next car from? I would ring a few van dealers then go along with your car and finance paperwork, act daft and let them sort you a deal. Don't tell them you 'have a problem' as this will neg them before you arrive. There a ways of increasing the 'advance' (amount borrowed) on later cars/vans which may go towards clearing you current loan. Good Luck!


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Method Man said:


> Set your stall out with what you want: the dealer tearing up the agreement isn't likely so don't bank on that but try and work out something which'll get close.


The dealer CAN'T tear up the agreement, it's not their agreement, they have no authority to tear it up and they wont be the ones you're money every month to. It's like you tearing up my mortgage :thumb:


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## slineclean (Dec 23, 2011)

I'd be going down the road of ' miss sold ' something very simlar happened to me when I took out a deal on GAP , alloy and tyre protection when I got mini. That was fine but basically the dealer had set it up that it was a loan basically I was paying. 

Wouldn't of been a problem but I sold the car to get my A1 and when I went to cancel the cover , that was when I found out it was a loan I'd signed and regardless what happened with the car, this loan had to paid and mini were paid in full for the protection.

I voiced my concern by phone , and then the letter route. Trading standards , financial odbudsman , Hq the lot. 

Got my money back shy about £300 . 

Sales rep springs to mind and unfort some of them would sell you fresh air if you let them . I don't know how they sleep at night. 

I'd be writing a letter to manager of the dealers if I was you


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## jamieblackford (Jan 17, 2012)

slineclean said:


> I'd be going down the road of ' miss sold ' something very simlar happened to me when I took out a deal on GAP , alloy and tyre protection when I got mini. That was fine but basically the dealer had set it up that it was a loan basically I was paying.
> 
> Wouldn't of been a problem but I sold the car to get my A1 and when I went to cancel the cover , that was when I found out it was a loan I'd signed and regardless what happened with the car, this loan had to paid and mini were paid in full for the protection.
> 
> ...


Is GAP insurance where if you write off your car, the contract gets terminated? Because they tried to sell me that too but I declined.

I would speak to the manager but he and the used car dealer at the time were the ones I spoke with when I took out the contract. I'm going back down tonight to let them look at my paperwork and see what they say, il keep you updated.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Whatever happened to "Caveat Emptor" - you sign the agreement, if you are so trusting / naive that you don't read the Terms and Conditions then I do not see why there should be any comeback

Sorry if it sounds harsh but it always seems to be labelled as the sellers fault - it takes two to tango


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## jamieblackford (Jan 17, 2012)

cts1975 said:


> Going back to the same dealer isn't the best solution IMHO. The type of dealer that misleads in the first place isn't the best dealer to by you next car from? I would ring a few van dealers then go along with your car and finance paperwork, act daft and let them sort you a deal. Don't tell them you 'have a problem' as this will neg them before you arrive. There a ways of increasing the 'advance' (amount borrowed) on later cars/vans which may go towards clearing you current loan. Good Luck!


In a way I'm glad I own the car so I have the option of doing my business elsewhere now.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

jamieblackford said:


> In a way I'm glad I own the car so I have the option of doing my business elsewhere now.


You'd still be able to go elsewhere if the car was on HP


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## electric_cooper (Feb 28, 2008)

Whether the car is on HP on a personal loan doesnt matter a jot, just means that the balance owed needs to be paid to a different company to satisfy it. Neither tie you in the buying the car from a specific dealer.


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## jamieblackford (Jan 17, 2012)

Went down with my paperwork this evening to be told the manager isn't in tonight but he will be tomorrow.


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