# Just got real - paid job coming up?! Advice please!



## Kristian87 (Jun 23, 2019)

After a solid 15 hours of detailing over the weekend, just on 2 cars, I started the week zapped of energy as you can imagine, but a surprise detail request from a friend really got me excited!

As I'm sure is the case for many of you, the spiralling obsession with detailing has resulted in the reality of doing a paid job. I've discussed with a work colleague before (as you do) about what went on over the weekend, and i casually agreed to one day maybe detail his land rover - yet to be arranged. Monday was different however - I headed in to town for my haircut app, I get on really well with my barber, first thing he says to me..."the mini looks awesome, I want you to do mine". A bit taken back, and trying to hide my excitement, I happily agreed. He'd seen my Instagram posts of my full day detail on the mini - I've posted about that in the "what detailing have you done today" thread, and he was keen to have me do his as well.

Funnily enough, he had approached the only detailer in town for what I can only assume was the full works, ceramic coating & all - £1,800 for a weeks worth of detailing! Anyway, he's recently picked up a fairly new Tiguan R Line - in silver, very nice motor. I had a quick look after my haircut and it's in good need of a thorough clean. Paintwork at a first glance looked in great shape so just needs a thorough going over, I'll likely end with a coat of glaze, then some protection.

So here's my dilemma - I've only ever really detailed my own car, at my own pace and I just sort of wing it on the day. No time pressures. Occasionally do a family members car, but nothing extensive, or the girlfriends car - which gets a little more attention (despite being mostly neglected!).

Now I haven't worked out the logistics, or a date yet, but the plan will likely be that I'll get the car for a full day. So the question is, what exactly do I do, and how much should I be looking to charge? Obviously he'll get mates rates, but if I end up doing this a few times a month, I'll want to make it worth my while.

It's a bigger car than I'm used to obviously so I need to be careful about not committing to too much, but roughly;
- thorough deep clean of the tires, wheels, wheel wells
- plastic trim, and exterior scrubbed in all intricate areas
- door/boot shuts degreased
- standard 2 bucket wash
- decon paint (iron fallout + light clay?)
- clay & seal windows
- Few piano black trim pieces which I may attempt to polish; swirled up and drivers side had a couple of visible scratches.
- finish paintwork with a glaze, then a spray on sealant and/or a coat of carnuba
- dress any plastic trim (don't think there is too much), and tires
- thorough hoover of interior, surfaces wiped down, interior glass cleaned

If there was more time, I'd likely clean out the engine bay, add protection the wheels, maybe even polish the exterior glass too. But as I said, I'll be against the clock with this one.

Any advice for what sort of service I should be looking to complete? Have I got that list above generally right, or is that too much/not enough for a days effort?

What about costs? Assuming he wasn't getting mates rates, I have in mind that £200-250 would be a going day rate for a great quality detail? (e.g. 8+ hours)

P.s. sorry for long post, I'm off work today so have too much time on my hands haha


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## Blueberry (Aug 10, 2007)

I don’t mean to sound rude but I don’t think charging that price for the work you are doing is warranted. You don’t even mention you are polishing it. To me it’s more of a valet. 

What about if something goes wrong, are you covered insurance wise? It’s all too easy to jump on the bandwagon and see pound signs popping up. The £1k plus price he was quoted would be for a thoroughly detailed job which is not the same as you are offering. 

£50 would be the top price I would personally pay.


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## garage_dweller (Apr 10, 2018)

Again apologies for raining on your parade but you mentioned in your other post that it was the first time you’d used a polisher, now you’re being let loose on someone else’s car and charging them £250. 

I admire your confidence but personally that’s not a risk I’d want to take. 

If you’re charging that sort of price you really really need to know what you’re doing. 

Sorry just reread your post and you’re not polishing the paintwork, but you’re claying it? Also no tar removal mentioned?

What you’ve said you’ll do isn’t worth £250. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sawel (Aug 5, 2016)

I certainly wouldn't be claying the car if you're not following up after with machine polishing because claying will inflict marring. Given that the car is silver, it will be well hidden but it will certainly be there. As for £200 - £250 when there's zero machine polishing being done you'd need to more than half that. What you'll be doing is an intensive valet and nothing really more than that.


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## TonyHill (Jul 28, 2015)

Again no disrespect, but a half decent mobile valeter would be doing that in a couple of hours for around £60.


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## slim_boy_fat (Jun 23, 2006)

Imho, the OP is comparing apples and oranges.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

In my opinion if the OP quotes £200 and the client says yes then winner.

If at a later date the OP wants to polish the client's car and charge more - even bigger winner.

I very much doubt a thorough inside and out can be completed in a couple of hours.


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## Kristian87 (Jun 23, 2019)

Thanks for the feedback folks...realised after I posted that the 250 number was ambitious. Still, with the way I do things, I'm still looking at a full days work.

Re insurance, no I'm not insured - but this is a trusting friend, so from that perspective I'm not worried. It's more a case of him being happy to pay for my time.

I'm on the fence about claying. I used a clay mitt recently on my own car, and there is some very subtle marring - which personally I can live with for now. I mentioned it because it was something the guy specifically asked for, but I'm aware of the risk of doing it & not following with a polish step.

Take on board the feeling that this is more of an extensive valet, and I didn't really think about what I personally would pay for that sort of service. Which for me I guess would max out at around the £100 mark, assuming that was a good half days effort.

@tonyhill - I struggle to do a basic wash on my own car in 2 hours, let alone all the extras listed lol. I guess I'm basing this on my own standards and how I personally work - taking my time. If I wanted someone else to work on my car and deliver what I'm intending to for my friend, I'd be worried if it was done within 2 hours (assuming it's just one guy).

I'm not at all saying that I'm worthy of that ambitious day rate, but based on some detailers websites I've been on, there are services on offer that far exceed that. But then again, I'd imagine that's with more than one guy working to deliver a particular service. That said, last year I had Ford pay for a full "paint enhancement" detail after they messed me around (long story), that was done by a studio based detailer in Essex, which I'm pretty sure was one guy in one day, and I know that didn't leave much change from £500.

Anyway, very useful input - thanks again.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm sure all the detailing companies on here will be happy to read even more cash in hand driveway detailers stealing their livelihood.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

> I'm sure all the detailing companies on here will be happy to read even more cash in hand driveway detailers stealing their livelihood.


Everyone has to start somewhere.


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## Kristian87 (Jun 23, 2019)

Andy from Sandy said:


> In my opinion if the OP quotes £200 and the client says yes then winner.
> 
> If at a later date the OP wants to polish the client's car and charge more - even bigger winner.
> 
> I very much doubt a thorough inside and out can be completed in a couple of hours.


In all honesty, if I could organise myself to squeeze in a polish step in a day then that's the sort of figure I had in mind (£200). If it was me spending, I think that's a good value service, assuming that's coming from a competent detailer.


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

TonyHill said:


> Again no disrespect, but a half decent mobile valeter would be doing that in a couple of hours for around £60.


I'd be very impressed if they could do it to the sort of standard I'd be looking for in a couple of hours .

Unless they've been extras on Men in Black 

Andy.


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## Sawel (Aug 5, 2016)

Kristian87 said:


> Thanks for the feedback folks...realised after I posted that the 250 number was ambitious. Still, with the way I do things, I'm still looking at a full days work.
> 
> Re insurance, no I'm not insured - but this is a trusting friend, so from that perspective I'm not worried. It's more a case of him being happy to pay for my time.
> 
> ...


What you'll probably also note about that detailer is a few things...

He does this for a living and is probably quite skilled at what he does and is proficient with a machine polisher and he did a machine polish on your car. You do not know how to machine polish. What you are doing is just valeting.

He probably pays a hefty monthly sum to rent his unit, unit insurance, public liability insurance, damage to goods worked on insurance, water and electricity bills, and petty things the local council like to charge a few bob for, like waste disposal bags.

He has to earn a living from this, pay his mortgage/bills etc and therefore, has to charge a rate which allows him to do this. Given he has quite a lot of overheads as posted above, he is obviously going to need to charge a rate much greater than someone who likes to do a bit of valeting for a hobby. You have ZERO experience working on customers cars (paid jobs).


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

> if I could organise myself to squeeze in a polish step in a day...


After my time with Dave KG and reviewing other people's work I don't think you can put an actual time in hours and minutes for how long it will take to polish a car.


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## Kristian87 (Jun 23, 2019)

Kerr said:


> I'm sure all the detailing companies on here will be happy to read even more cash in hand driveway detailers stealing their livelihood.


Fair comment. But what options do some people have - depending on their location; pay big for a service which probably far exceeds what they are actually after? Or visit the car park cowboys, and pay little or nothing, but suffer the consequences. Where is the in between?

This is why I do it myself. I'd happily pay, £30-40, even maybe £50 for a detail if I was unable or couldn't find the time, but in my area that doesn't exist, so I don't see what I'm doing on this occasion as stealing. Just my 2 pence.


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## Bug Sponge (Apr 9, 2017)

Kristian87 said:


> Fair comment. But what options do some people have - depending on their location; pay big for a service which probably far exceeds what they are actually after? Or visit the car park cowboys, and pay little or nothing, but suffer the consequences. Where is the in between?
> 
> This is why I do it myself. I'd happily pay, £30-40, even maybe £50 for a detail if I was unable or couldn't find the time, but in my area that doesn't exist, so I don't see what I'm doing on this occasion as stealing. Just my 2 pence.


There's plenty of cars to go round so wouldn't let that comment bother you. If a detailers work is exceptional they'll always have plenty of work on. You doing a mates car isn't going to change that!


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

I'm in agreement with most of the above. What you are doing is only marginally more intensive than a standard wash (albeit with lowered risks of causing paint defects). 

The extra 10/20% you achieve will be unrecognisable to most unless they really go in close, so essentially you are charging around £200 to apply a glaze and a coat of wax...

Bringing it down to around £75-£100 would end up leaving you earning less than £10/hour, not to mention all the money spend on using your products.

I would probably just forego the payment and say you are happy to give it a decent maintenance wash as a favour....payment only brings potentially unrealistic expectations and potential liability.


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## Blueberry (Aug 10, 2007)

Kristian87 said:


> Thanks for the feedback folks...realised after I posted that the 250 number was ambitious. Still, with the way I do things, I'm still looking at a full days work.
> 
> Re insurance, no I'm not insured - but this is a trusting friend, so from that perspective I'm not worried. It's more a case of him being happy to pay for my time.
> 
> ...


Re insurance - disregard the fact it's a friend. What if, for example, you applied a chemical which reacted with something in the paint, a bad smart repair for example? It happens ! Then you are left with a huge bill to have it put right. Friendship counts for nothing sometimes in situations such as this. The insurance is to protect you as well as the owner of the car you are doing.

I know you probably mean well but i would probably do the work for free, for experience, more than anything. When doing a car for someone I think the most important thing is that anyone paying to have their car done would, at the very least, expect their car to be polished.


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

Mates rates and the fact your learning the ropes...

£10/hr cash sounds fair.
Take a 10 hour slot and its £100 in your sky rocket.
(I know you've got cost of product to take in to account but as an amateur its insignificant I think)

Couple of years ago my mrs's friend's husband asked if I'd do his car.
I said £10/hr and as long as it takes.

I worked like a maniac and washed/decon'd/ clayed/de-tarred and enhancement polished it with the machine and sealed with Gtechniq C2v3.
I think I called it £90 and was happy to be outside in the sun all day playing about with a nice car.

Another mate had a S4 in black I spent a day and a half on and I charged him £150. This was a good de-swirl/ correction detail too.

Without doing a nice job with a dual action or rotary I think your £200 - £250 is a bit unrealistic.
Fair play though to you for making a start - I hope it goes well for you and you agree a price that works for both of you :thumb:


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## garage_dweller (Apr 10, 2018)

Kristian87 said:


> In all honesty, if I could organise myself to squeeze in a polish step in a day then that's the sort of figure I had in mind (£200). If it was me spending, I think that's a good value service, assuming that's coming from a competent detailer.


But you've only used a polisher once!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kristian87 (Jun 23, 2019)

James_R said:


> Mates rates and the fact your learning the ropes...
> 
> £10/hr cash sounds fair.
> Take a 10 hour slot and its £100 in your sky rocket.
> ...


Thank you mate, it was more about understanding what was achievable in a day than it was about understanding what I could make. I may end up doing it for free, he's my barber after all so i may get a couple free haircuts


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## Kristian87 (Jun 23, 2019)

garage_dweller said:


> But you've only used a polisher once!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not true. I've got a fair few hours under my belt from training/supervision at workshops. Weekend was the first time i went at it on my own with my own kit.


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## Rob D 88 (May 24, 2016)

What's going on with the DW love lately?

He might not have the most experience in the world but let's give the guy some encouragement. We all had to start somewhere!

Ok it might be a tad expensive but then he did not go after the customer the guy come after him. Would anyone be happy working 10 hours on a Saturday for £100? I know I wouldn't. If the guy liked what he see and wants him to do he's car even at £200 that's the customers problem.

Rob


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## Eddmeister (May 6, 2011)

Kerr said:


> I'm sure all the detailing companies on here will be happy to read even more cash in hand driveway detailers stealing their livelihood.


Steal their livelihood is a bit dramatic :lol:


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

deleted......


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Eddmeister said:


> Steal their livelihood is a bit dramatic :lol:


How is it dramatic? Taking work away from an honest company is exactly that.



> livelihood noun*[*C*or*U*]
> 
> *UK**/ˈlaɪv.li.hʊd/*US**/ˈlaɪv.li.hʊd/
> 
> *(the way someone*earns) the*money people*need to*pay*for*food, a*place*to live,*clothing, etc.:


I think a lot of people on here see detailing as a hobby and are happy to pocket good money doing jobs on the side. They don't really think of the bigger picture that they are actually just working illegally.

If the shoe was on the other foot I bet they wouldn't like people working illegally and doing them out or earnings in their full time job whilst avoiding paying all the taxes and dues.


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## Kristian87 (Jun 23, 2019)

Rob D 88 said:


> What's going on with the DW love lately?
> 
> He might not have the most experience in the world but let's give the guy some encouragement. We all had to start somewhere!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the kind words Rob, must admit I was a little shocked to be shot down in flames somewhat, I was looking for some constructive feedback for sure but some of the comments left me feeling I needed to defend myself!

A little context perhaps - always enjoyed cleaning my own cars, been doing that for well over 10 years, and yes i'd look back in horror if I could see what I was doing 10 years ago. The concept of detailing was not known to me until 3 or 4 years ago where i really started to make an effort to learn how to master the art of cleaning cars and keeping them looking as good as possible. I kicked that up a notch a couple of years ago, and really invested a lot of my time and energy in to learning all i could, and i've collected a lot of great quality tools and products that have served me well. In my opinion I'm detailing to a high standard - at least in the last year or so, and feel comfortable now with paint correction techniques, although i admit i don't have a lot of hands on experience, just some. I by no means work as fast or effectively as those who do this for a living but that's what i'm aiming for.

I have a couple of close friends who detail for a living that I speak to often and I'm lucky enough to be a sponsor car for Adams Polishes in the UK, so i must be doing something right. i joined this forum because i'm seriously considering making the transition from hobbyists to either part time or full time, because I enjoy it that much.

Sorry if I ask stupid questions but doing paid work is an entirely new concept, but one that I take seriously.

Again, thanks for all the input - been an interesting thread


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

I've done quite a few cars for friends, neighbours and family over the years, but haven't ever charged. I have, however, received a fair few bottles of wine, which has been very much appreciated. 

Dont be worrying about the money side of it just yet, if it's detailing and correction you're trying to move into. Use this, and other cars as opportunities to hone your skills, but practice machining on scrap panels or cars to get to a point where you really know what you're doing with the many combinations of pads, polishes and paints. 

As some of the guys have said, there appears to be two very distinct markets out there, that are very easily confused to the uninitiated. The Valeting end of the market is a quick turn-around, 50 quid type service that is essentially a really good clean. Detailing and paint correction is more extensive and can take many days, largely determined by the car and the paint, and obviously the individual customer's desired result. This can run into 4 figures easily. 

I've been doing this for many years. I still dont class myself as a detailer - I'm not a patch on the professional guys who show their stuff on here. I can, however, get my cars (and some others) to a good overall standard for a muggle. 

Cooks



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Alfieharley1 (Jun 8, 2014)

Rob D 88 said:


> What's going on with the DW love lately?
> 
> He might not have the most experience in the world but let's give the guy some encouragement. We all had to start somewhere!


Taking part of Robs quote I completely agree.

Just my 2 pence worth, when ever I do friends etc I charge £50 for 8 hours. It normally goes over that but that covers my products/water / electric etc. This normally replaces the products I used and gets a cheeky take away as I'm definetly not cooking that night. If the guys is happy to pay £200 and understands what is being done and how long then that's fine. The barber has already seeked a professional who is charging to much for him so why can he not use the OP who will be cheaper, may not get the same quality but understands what will be achieved.

It's like myself why pay for something at £500 which you can get for £10 doing the same job or slightly less quality. It all comes down to price / quality.

For example why buy a rupes over a DAS6 pro. Just think about that one. There are arguments for and against


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Kristian87 said:


> Thanks for the kind words Rob, must admit I was a little shocked to be shot down in flames somewhat, I was looking for some constructive feedback for sure but some of the comments left me feeling I needed to defend myself!
> 
> Again, thanks for all the input - been an interesting thread


Take it as tough love... there has been a lot of people (good and bad) through here thinking that they've had a few classes with a DA and worked on a couple of practice panels/their own car, so that means they are ready to take on the world...some poeple want to give a proper 'back to earth' kind of post.. just to ensure you've thought of everything.

Being able to defend your position is a good thing... :thumb:

When I was doing detialing for others, took me 30 odd hours with polishing/wet sanding/painting etc, I never asked for payment, but that's just me.

As soon as you ask for money - it's a business arrangement, and you should be fully protected against any damage you cause (despite you thinking it's a friend - that can quickly disolve when you burn through a panel that you didn't realise was painted badly  )

For what it's worth, on this first clean.. I would do a quick 2 hour wash for a couple of haircuts/beer tokens, then go from there... explain/show him the next steps/products/timeframes and see where he wants to go...

:thumb:


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Kerr said:


> They don't really think of the bigger picture that they are actually just working illegally.
> 
> If the shoe was on the other foot I bet they wouldn't like people working illegally and doing them out or earnings in their full time job whilst avoiding paying all the taxes and dues.


^^This



The Cueball said:


> As soon as you ask for money - it's a business arrangement, and you should be fully protected against any damage you cause (despite you thinking it's a friend - that can quickly disolve when you burn through a panel that you didn't realise was painted badly  )


^^ & this.

If you are providing services for money, you should be declaring this to the Inland Revenue.

You can't get insurance unless you are operating a legitimate business, so either self employed or a director of a ltd company.


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## Kristian87 (Jun 23, 2019)

The Cueball said:


> For what it's worth, on this first clean.. I would do a quick 2 hour wash for a couple of haircuts/beer tokens, then go from there... explain/show him the next steps/products/timeframes and see where he wants to go...
> 
> :thumb:


This is what it's shaping up to be, although it will more than likely keep me occupied for a day. I'll be sure to avoid any paint correction at this stage but if that's something he would like, then it is something I would look to do in the future.

@Shiny - take on board your point. If I do end up doing this on a regular basis, I'll be sure to do it all properly & by the books. I don't yet know where this is leading, but i'm not a guy looking to make a few cheeky extra £ on the side.


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## bigalc (Aug 7, 2014)

There is nothing wrong in doing someone's car if they are happy with the results you have done in the past.
It's hard graft and I would not like to do it for a living but I would expect people to pay for the supplies used and a wee tip for my time.
I am in the ball park figure of £50-£100 for a good decontamination wash, dry, machine glaze and wax...so far I have never charged but products do run low.
It's like most things, people shop around for what they can afford and what they are happy with.
It's an expensive hobby that most of us do for joy and stress relief so charging for supplies is certainly not doing anyone out of their lively hood. 

Alan


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## Eddmeister (May 6, 2011)

Kerr said:


> How is it dramatic? Taking work away from an honest company is exactly that.
> 
> I think a lot of people on here see detailing as a hobby and are happy to pocket good money doing jobs on the side. They don't really think of the bigger picture that they are actually just working illegally.
> 
> If the shoe was on the other foot I bet they wouldn't like people working illegally and doing them out or earnings in their full time job whilst avoiding paying all the taxes and dues.


You've never done something for someone and they've slung you a cheeky £20 for doing it?

Professional detailers needn't be worried about some guy doing a job for someone in his work, getting into legality as an argument is futile, bet you've broke the law at least once today.


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## garage_dweller (Apr 10, 2018)

Eddmeister said:


> bet you've broke the law at least once today.


Talking of futile arguments 

I hadn't broken the law this week

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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

So i will give my 2 pennies worth, from an unbiased full time detailers perspective who isnt so arrogant to not admit we all start with little cash jobs. 

1) You dont sound ready for paid work. The indecision in your post tells me you simply are not ready yet

2) Where i am from mates rates is free. This always seems to shock people, but my mates and family are also useful. Even now, as a full time studio based detailer im not charging friends and family. In the same way i dont expect an invoice from them if they do me a favour. 

3) People will often say "you have to start somewhere", or something similar. This is true. And that should be from a place of gratitude that you get to do something you are obsessed about. You earn the right to charge so you need plenty of cars under your belt before you do so. 

4) I know you didnt, but people often fall into this trap of charging a quid less than a professional and pretending its a really good deal. As and when you do start to charge, forget what the pro costs. You arent one so its irrelevant. Pick a day rate you are happy with, that makes pricing easy. You wont stutter over your costs, the quicker and more confidently you can give a number the more inclined they will be to pay. Just dont be too gready, remember, even if you are good, you are not a pro. If ultimately you cost nearly the same, they might as well use the pro! 

5) I like swapping work for work. I have a number of local tradesmen that i do this with. If he is your barber, and you trust him, maybe do a days work on the car, for a few hair cuts, then do a monthly valet for a hair cut! Its been a long time since i paid to take hair off my body lol but i bet the numbers arent that dissimilar? This way you get to do plenty of work, really get better, find out if its really for you, and he probably will be telling everyone about how you keep his car. Dont overlook the power of trading. 

6) If you are going to machine a car, set aside more than a day. If a pro would, you damn sure better had. Trust me when i say it takes years of doing it regularly to really find a groove. Even now after so many years, im still improving. Getting half decent results now and again just isnt adequate training. Thats like not dying after wiring a plug and using it, then charging for a full rewire to a house. You wont notice the difference between good and great work until you have done tons of it 

7) Remember to have fun. This will grind you into the ground and make you resent it real quick if you dont watch yourself. Silly time frames and agreeing to work you are unsure about is the quickest way to do that to yourself. Try to enjoy it, always. 

8) Always always remember you are treading on someones toes, so be prepared to be treated that way. Again, lots of people on here will say "there are plenty of cars out there for everyone", they probably DONT say that about whatever it is they do for a living. People feed and clothe their families from this trade, keep that in the back of your mind so you dont tread in something that sticks. Its a fickle industry and not everyone is as kind and polite as others. 

9) See point 7 again


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Eddmeister said:


> You've never done something for someone and they've slung you a cheeky £20 for doing it?
> 
> Professional detailers needn't be worried about some guy doing a job for someone in his work, getting into legality as an argument is futile, bet you've broke the law at least once today.


I can honestly say I have never done any work on the side. I have maybe managed 44mph in a 40mph zone this week. Other than that I'm sure I haven't broken any laws. :lol: I really can't think what laws i would break on daily basis of any seriousness?

There is lots of people doing detailing for reward on a regular basis. It's not people helping mates or family out who don't really take care of their car. It's people who want their car nice and seek this service.

It is small businesses that are hidden behind the banner of a hobby when they both know better.

I guess some people do hold a biased view, but everyone is quick to complain about other people not paying their way or defrauding the benefits system etc.

Hopefully the OP doesn't go down that route, but there is plenty of people stuck in the cycle of doing it cash in hand. It doesn't pay well enough to be a full time job, but it does bring good enough reward to give up weekends.


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## Kristian87 (Jun 23, 2019)

Great response @stangalang re (5) yea you're right - not too far away in numbers. This barber is the most expensive in town but I go there for the experience, the good atmosphere and knowing I'm getting the best for my money (despite him being double the cost of most other barbers in town). He knows his quality work, and he's priced his services that way.


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## suds (Apr 27, 2012)

Sage and detailed advice from Stangalang. I would also add, as people are driven to you by recommendation, also be honest with your abilities when appropriate and refer people on to the pro detailer in town. It's a small community where trust and confidence is paramount - mutual support can be a lifeline. We are only human and stuff goes wrong, with the right contacts the pro will be on hand to get you out of trouble should it ever arise and he will in turn refer people to you when they contact him and baulk at the cost of a full monty. Win Win :thumb:


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

Good look with what ever you end up doing. :thumb:

I've done valeting jobs for close friends and family, usually in exchange for "treats" or for one mate work carried out on my car !


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

> They don't really think of the bigger picture that they are actually just working illegally.


Has it been established that the OP is not going to declare his earnings?

Has it been established if it is illegal to do car valeting on his drive?

Has it been established it is illegal to valet someone else's car on their own property?

If the customer went to a professional detailer and was given a price that he is unable or unwilling to justify then said professional is not losing out as he was not going to get any business anyway.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Andy from Sandy said:


> Has it been established that the OP is not going to declare his earnings?
> 
> Has it been established if it is illegal to do car valeting on his drive?
> 
> ...


Do you think he plans to declare? He's said he'd doing it for "mates rates" and has asked and answered nothing on the legality front.

Basic questions about cost strongly suggest that he's not thinking deeper than cash in pocket.

Your first response to me suggests you agreed with my original point and suggests you see working illegally as normal.



Andy from Sandy said:


> Everyone has to start somewhere.


I have no idea if it is illegal to wash cars on drives. I was purely pointing out people earning money illegally. The OP is planning to do this a few times a month.

The guy got a quote for £1800. Even the OP admitted he must have been quoted for the works.

What the OP is going to charge for his services you would get a professional doing it for that. As others have pointed out he doesn't have the experience and his charge is excessive for what he was offering.

He better hope the customer isn't expecting a £1800 service for £250 because it's cash in hand mates rates.

I do find it ironic that the barber that charges double the price of everyone in town is the guy who is seeking out to do things on the cheap. Kind of sums up this country.

Is there a reason you are sensitive to me highlighting working illegally? Is this where you started? Are you still stuck in the cycle of charging people and not declaring earnings?


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

> Is there a reason you are sensitive to me highlighting working illegally?


It is you that seemed to show the first objection, that the OP was somehow taking the bread from a professional.

You made the assumption that someone getting cash in hand is working illegally.

Is it? Is accepting money from an acquaintance illegal?

I didn't start anywhere and I am retired now. Maybe I could start up as a detailer?


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Andy from Sandy said:


> It is you that seemed to show the first objection, that the OP was somehow taking the bread from a professional.
> 
> You made the assumption that someone getting cash in hand is working illegally.
> 
> ...


The OP is quite clear he is doing this for earnings. The title of the thread is paid job.

You didn't start a business, but you made a decent sum of undeclared earnings?

I'm really not sure where you are trying to head with this?


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Andy from Sandy said:


> Is accepting money from an acquaintance illegal?


It's not illegal to take money for a job, but if someone is being paid for services, then the IR need to know about it. https://www.gov.uk/working-for-yourself :thumb:


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## TonyHill (Jul 28, 2015)

Seems to be getting into a debate over taking money without declaring it. It happens, always has and probably always will. Do you seriously think all the window cleaners, odd job men, house cleaners etc...are declaring all their income to the inland revenue?!? 
Until we live in a cashless society then there's nothing anyone can do about it.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

TonyHill said:


> Seems to be getting into a debate over taking money without declaring it. It happens, always has and probably always will. Do you seriously think all the window cleaners, odd job men, house cleaners etc...are declaring all their income to the inland revenue?!?
> Until we live in a cashless society then there's nothing anyone can do about it.


We all know it happens. Everyone else gets annoyed when other people do it, but not so much if they are gaining from it.

I'm all for a cashless society. It really does work a treat in Stockholm. They all seemed to fully buy into it and seen how much it benefited them in more ways than just raising the correct amount of tax.

Maybe the working man won't have to work longer and keep paying more if we do.


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## Kristian87 (Jun 23, 2019)

So if I detail/valet my friends car for free, and he decided to cut my hair several times for free, which one of us is in the wrong then?

Seriously didn’t think this thread would go down this route so i apologise. I’ll admit a got a little excited about the fact someone randomly approached me to do something for them because they felt i was good at it. What i really wanted to get out of this thread is what i should realistically be able to achieve in a day of detailing. To make it clear i’m not really fussed if he bough be a coffee of gave me some cash for my time. I’ve got great respect and admiration for the industry, and the work that detailers do. And as I said before, seriously considering a career change.


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## Sam6er (Apr 3, 2016)

Wow, i think the OP was better off not asking for advise lol. 
Kristian - good luck with your venture and i hope it does turn into something fruitful for you on a full/part time basis. Some people are just a bit sour in life, dont take notice or let them put you off. 
I wouldn't ask these type of question on public forums for future reference  More hassle than its worth. There's plenty of reading material on the internet you can use as a reference point (google is your best friend in finding what you need) and speak to family and or friends if your unsure if your plan/pricing doesn't seem right to get sound advise without the shirty comments lol.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

> You didn't start a business, but you made a decent sum of undeclared earnings?


I finished my working life as a contractor in IT. I had no option but to operate above board and pay my taxes.



> It's not illegal to take money for a job, but if someone is being paid for services, then the IR need to know about it.


That is kind of what I implied, it is only illegal once you don't declare earnings to HMRC.

There is a number of replies inferring the OP is stealing, working illegally, shouldn't do this and that, blah, blah.

If an opportunity is presented why look a gift horse in the mouth?



> I'm all for a cashless society.


What are you going to trade for your next car, television, 'phone?


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## Kristian87 (Jun 23, 2019)

Sam6er said:


> Wow, i think the OP was better off not asking for advise lol.
> Kristian - good luck with your venture and i hope it does turn into something fruitful for you on a full/part time basis. Some people are just a bit sour in life, dont take notice or let them put you off.
> I wouldn't ask these type of question on public forums for future reference  More hassle than its worth. There's plenty of reading material on the internet you can use as a reference point (google is your best friend in finding what you need) and speak to family and or friends if your unsure if your plan/pricing doesn't seem right to get sound advise without the shirty comments lol.


Too late now :lol: Lesson learnt however.

Plenty of useful info online as you say, mainly youtube for me rather than reading through articles. But even those at the top of their game seem to disagree on some things, so asking these sorts of questions on a forum seemed like an interesting idea.


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## Sawel (Aug 5, 2016)

Kristian87 said:


> So if I detail/valet my friends car for free, and he decided to cut my hair several times for free, which one of us is in the wrong then?
> 
> Seriously didn't think this thread would go down this route so i apologise. I'll admit a got a little excited about the fact someone randomly approached me to do something for them because they felt i was good at it. *What i really wanted to get out of this thread is what i should realistically be able to achieve in a day of detailing.* To make it clear i'm not really fussed if he bough be a coffee of gave me some cash for my time. I've got great respect and admiration for the industry, and the work that detailers do. And as I said before, seriously considering a career change.


What you'll be doing is just valeting though and similar to what valeting companies in your area will offer.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Sam6er said:


> Some people are just a bit sour in life, dont take notice or let them put you off.
> I wouldn't ask these type of question on public forums for future reference  More hassle than its worth. There's plenty of reading material on the internet you can use as a reference point (google is your best friend in finding what you need) and speak to family and or friends if your unsure if your plan/pricing doesn't seem right to get sound advise without the shirty comments lol.


Wow. There is nothing wrong with discussion, but getting insulting is something else. Very shirty!

A bit sour? Genuine :lol:



Andy from Sandy said:


> What are you going to trade for your next car, television, 'phone?


I'm not quite following you again here....

I'll guess that you're suggesting as there is no cash that people aren't being paid for services and goods?

I already pay for most items, especially expensive, with card transactions already.

That's what cashless is. Fully traceable movements of money where people can't avoid paying their fair share of tax etc.


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## garage_dweller (Apr 10, 2018)

That's out of order, from what sense I can make of it. The OP asked for opinions, that's what he got and he's not verbally abusing people so why are you?


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## suds (Apr 27, 2012)

The only poster proving himself to be ##### is the opinionated Johnny come lately


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