# Driving off on a cold start



## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

How many of you warm your car up for a few mins before taking off......if its been parked up overnight for example? :thumb:


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## brinks (Jun 21, 2006)

Nope, I start up and drive off after a few seconds of faffing with the seatbelt, radio etc..

Real can of worms though this one, all my cars handbooks have said that warming up at idle is not recommended. Engines prefer running at the right temp and idling means it'll take longer to get there.

That said I do drive gently until the water temp us up.


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## TJenkos (May 6, 2009)

Modern engines want running from cold and not sat there idling from cold 

If its got a turbo, I'd let it warm up until before making good use of it..


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## mattsbmw (Jul 20, 2008)

never leave my car idling for long, always go straight off from cold but drive gently till warm.


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

Quick blip of the throttle, let the revs drop to idle speed (about 10 secs) and away we go. I take it easy until temp gauge is upto normal temp too. 

I do always wonder whether I should let it idle for a while or not though...


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Car ticking over when cold = bad 

Oil pressure is low at tick over and thats when you want oil been splashed about the most as in that state its thick and if the car has been stood over night oil will have back drained to the sump


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## marc147 (Nov 21, 2011)

mattsbmw said:


> never leave my car idling for long, always go straight off from cold but drive gently till warm.


+1 to this


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## nick3814 (Dec 31, 2010)

Drive it from cold but don't thrash it! My RenaultSports don't let the revs exceed 4000rpm until they're at operating temperature.


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## Turkleton (Apr 18, 2010)

Always just drive on, routine on a morning is: engine on, seatbelt on, radio, reverse out of the garage then take it easy for a couple of miles and job's a good'n
Always makes me laugh when people say they let their car idle for 5 minutes before and after a journey, pointless much?


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## MEH4N (Mar 15, 2012)

Newer cars dont really need to be warmed up. I think you should let turbo'd cars and diesels warm up a little.

I fiddle with the radio, check wallet and phone lol and then set off.


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## NMH (Apr 25, 2012)

andy monty said:


> Car ticking over when cold = bad
> 
> Oil pressure is low at tick over and thats when you want oil been splashed about the most as in that state its thick and if the car has been stood over night oil will have back drained to the sump


.......and thats why I warm mine up. :thumb:

As the other guys do......all my neighbours take off within a second but i've always warmed mine up before driving off.

Will check my handbook me thinks!


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

I drive straight off its a car not the space shuttle LOL.


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## Teddy (Dec 15, 2007)

I do hope people aren't relying on the coolant temperature gauge to tell them the car is warmed up. Oil takes a lot longer to warm up than thermostat controlled coolant.


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## Matt197 (Dec 27, 2006)

I start my car and wait for the oil level indicator to disappear (around 5 seconds) then I'm off.

Then keep the car under 3.5k revs until 10-15min, by that time I hit the first dual carriage way and the cars nicely warmed up.


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## carl robson (Nov 16, 2011)

My bmw handbook says not to let engine idle but to drive it and not to exceed max rpm until engine has reached normal operating temp


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

I drive straight away, keep the revs to 3000 until it's up to temperature.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I usually let it idle for a minute or two before going.


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## theshrew (May 21, 2008)

Warm up no. 

However the most important thing is to give the oil a chance to get around the engine. Remember it all goes back to the sump when its off. You need to give it chance to get pumped up to the top of the engine. If not thats where a lot of damage can be caused. 

If you have a Turbo car you should always idle before you turn off. If you have been reving the conckers off it the turbo will still be spinning and have no oil to lube it.


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

Mine is always stood for a moment while I get out and open or lock the garage, no more than that though !


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

What about if you have Castrol "magnetec", after all, it's supposed to coat the engine internals with oil to protect at start up, so shouldn't matter if you warm up for a few minutes or not


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

I probably leave mine a minute before driving and half a minute before turning off.


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

Matt197 said:


> I start my car and wait for the oil level indicator to disappear (around 5 seconds) then I'm off.
> 
> Then keep the car under 3.5k revs until 10-15min, by that time I hit the first dual carriage way and the cars nicely warmed up.


Exactly how I do it, except i stay between 2-3K, accelerate smoothly etc!


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## Fiesta-125 (Mar 18, 2012)

NMH said:


> .......and thats why I warm mine up. :thumb:
> 
> As the other guys do......all my neighbours take off within a second but i've always warmed mine up before driving off.
> 
> Will check my handbook me thinks!


Think your missing the point. By letting it idle cold it's doing more damage than driving it gentle and increasing the oil pressure moving the oil round:wave:


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## benji1205 (Jun 15, 2009)

I normally pull off once the engine is at idle RPM and then drive down the road to the main road at about 20mph keeping the revs at about 2,000 rpm. When I had my Corsa VXR i used to give it at least 1 - 2 miles before i used to give the turbo anything to think about. With my derv again, normally give it a little run before exceeding 3k RPM.

My gramp always lets the car warm up at idle before he drives off - I dont think he accepts that times have moved on :wall:


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

NMH said:


> .......and thats why I warm mine up. :thumb:
> 
> As the other guys do......all my neighbours take off within a second but i've always warmed mine up before driving off.
> 
> Will check my handbook me thinks!


So you let your car sit there and idle when the oil is cold and thick with the oil pressure low at tick over.

Get in start car drive off best thing to do....


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## Natalie (Jan 19, 2011)

Just get in the car and go 



> Myth #1: The engine should be warmed up before driving. Reality: Idling is not an effective way to warm up your vehicle, even in cold weather. The best way to do this is to drive the vehicle. With today's modern engines, you need no more than 30 seconds of idling on winter days before driving away.
> 
> Myth #2: Idling is good for your engine. Reality: Excessive idling can actually damage your engine components, including cylinders, spark plugs, and exhaust systems. Fuel is only partially combusted when idling because an engine does not operate at its peak temperature. This leads to the build up of fuel residues on cylinder walls that can damage engine components and increase fuel consumption.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Natalie said:


> Just get in the car and go


Is this you setting off to Tesco?





 :devil:


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Drive straight off. Let the oil, water & tyres warm up a bit first before giving it any beans


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

Off like a bat out of hell


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## RedUntilDead (Feb 10, 2009)

theshrew said:


> Warm up no.
> 
> However the most important thing is to give the oil a chance to get around the engine. Remember it all goes back to the sump when its off. You need to give it chance to get pumped up to the top of the engine. If not thats where a lot of damage can be caused.
> 
> If you have a Turbo car you should always idle before you turn off. If you have been reving the conckers off it the turbo will still be spinning and have no oil to lube it.


I tend to take it easy on the last leg of the journey so as not to have the turbo spinning up and the brakes are also given a chance to cool. That said I thought modern cars allowed for this now with turbo cooling/oil circulation running on after the cars ignition has been turned off.


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## Sh1ner (May 19, 2012)

Fiesta-125 said:


> Think your missing the point. By letting it idle cold it's doing more damage than driving it gentle and increasing the oil pressure moving the oil round:wave:


I think you will find you will have good oil pressure when cold. Idling or not. The oil is thicker and will allow greater pressure for the same volume of oil at less rpm as it is more dense. Oil pressure generally falls for the same rpm as temperature rises because the oil is thinner, as long as it is above a minimum and below a maximum, all is well.
You may squeeze a little oil from hydraulic lifters with the engine off but the rest of the oil in the pressure system stays where it is. As soon as you start the engine it will be up to pressure within a second or two. Pressure switches can take a while to stablise.
Modern oils tend to be thinner but lubricate and cling better when cold. Many vehicles have pressure fed feeds to the thrust side of the cylinder bores which virtually eliminates any wear anyway.
There is nothing to fear from letting the engine idle. Oil will be everywhere it needs to be. Thrashing around from cold causes more damage all round and is much worse.
Best to warm the whole car up gently not just the engine.
We used to rebore etc every 20k or so. 12 to 20 engines a day. These days unless something has gone wrong or been neglected we rarely do it.


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

andy monty said:


> Car ticking over when cold = bad
> 
> Oil pressure is low at tick over and thats when you want oil been splashed about the most as in that state its thick and if the car has been stood over night oil will have back drained to the sump


We all know that idling a cold engine is bad.
And they need to be driven gently when cold.

But you realise that cold idle oil pressure is HUGE compared to hot idle oil pressure? I see almost 4 times higher oil pressure at cold idle than hot.

With regards to turbocharged cars, idling is actually not that good either after a hot run. It's recommended to take the last leg of your journey (2-3 miles) off boost as it will allow the oil temperature to drop. Then you can allow 20-30 seconds of idle time and then switch off.

Idle for much longer and your oil temperature will get up..


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## Lloyd71 (Aug 21, 2008)

This is all very well and good but what about clearing windows? If I don't let mine warm up to clear the windows while I'm scraping them they fog back up the moment I start driving.


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

Spray on de-icer? 
There are times when you unfortunately have to but it needs to be avoided where possible.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Squadrone Rosso said:


> Drive straight off. Let the oil, water & tyres warm up a bit first before giving it any beans


+1



:thumb:


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## Stumper (Apr 5, 2009)

Our ambulances at work are regularly thrashed mercilessly from stone cold and it's fair to say that they don't suffer with any more engine/turbo failures than any other Sprinters or Zafiras that I've worked on in the past. 
On the few engines we've had stripped for whatever reason, there's no noticeable wear on bores or bearings even with a good few miles under their belts.

That's good enough reason for me to not bother with warming the engine up before setting of anywhere!


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## rob28 (Nov 7, 2008)

Start the engine, go back inside, have breakfast, coffee and then head off. S.o probably about 20 minutes
But it's -40c and that ritual is more about my comfort and clearing glass than worrying about the engine. Plus the engine block heater will have been plugged in as well.


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## Dixondmn (Oct 12, 2007)

theshrew said:


> If you have a Turbo car you should always idle before you turn off. If you have been reving the conckers off it the turbo will still be spinning and have no oil to lube it.


True. I believe its call turbo over run. It basically cooks the bearings.


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## Lloyd71 (Aug 21, 2008)

xJay1337 said:


> Spray on de-icer?
> There are times when you unfortunately have to but it needs to be avoided where possible.


Even after using de-icer, if I start driving again the window just steams up. The only way to get rid of it is to warm the car up so that the heaters warm up. Even if I wipe the window with a cloth it fogs up again within seconds of driving down the road!


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## Dixondmn (Oct 12, 2007)

Lloyd71 said:


> Even after using de-icer, if I start driving again the window just steams up. The only way to get rid of it is to warm the car up so that the heaters warm up. Even if I wipe the window with a cloth it fogs up again within seconds of driving down the road!


Sounds like you might need to clean the inside of the screen with AG Glass Polish. this removes so much grime its unreal, and prevents fogging for a few months.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Dixondmn said:


> Sounds like you might need to clean the inside of the screen with AG Glass Polish. this removes so much grime its unreal, and prevents fogging for a few months.


Fogging will always occur when you use de-icer to remove ice. You can't stop water condensing on the inside surface no matter what you use.


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## Dixondmn (Oct 12, 2007)

SteveyG said:


> Fogging will always occur when you use de-icer to remove ice. You can't stop water condensing on the inside surface no matter what you use.


are you talking about fogging on the inside of a car windscreen, when using de-icer?

I've never had that happen.


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## Lloyd71 (Aug 21, 2008)

I clean the inside of my screen all the time, and funnily enough the last time I used the AG stuff from my kit. It's not been cold to see the difference though, I'll keep doing it to see if it makes any difference next winter.


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## saj1985 (Jul 30, 2011)

i try to sit in the car for a little while before driving off


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

saj1985 said:


> i try to sit in the car for a little while before driving off


What's with all the old thread bumping?

Cars don't like be left to idle cold. It's best to get in and drove gently to warm up.


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

Hit the start and go, real easy on the throttle without labouring the engine. With a turbo'd engine, I always give it a minute to idle before shutting off, regardless of whether it's done any hard work or not.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

There is no need for all this tomfoolery.

Start the car up, wait to defrost or defog as required (using the air conditioning if you have it) and drive off, keeping the revs modest, until the (water) temperature gauge has reached where it wants to be. The engine (and transmission) will warm up much faster whilst the car is being driven against a load than if it is all sat idling.

There is utterly no need to blip the throttle or rev up and down to 'warm the turbo up' or anything else for that matter. It's the oil which needs to warm but then modern oils are pretty good these days and will work fine at a range of viscosities.

In a modern diesel in particular it will take yonks to get anything like the right temperature if it is merely sat on the drive at idle. You might as well be on your way. Prolonged cold running is pants for a variety of reasons, not least because the exhaust won't be hot and so emissions will be less than ideal.

It is preferable in turbocharged engines to operate them gently for the last 5 minutes on the way home as opposed to ragging it on to the drive at 6000rpm and pulling the key out at that precise moment but that is a subject for a different thread.

As for engine oil pressure- in a lot of cars, like 911s, for example, you can see this displayed on a gauge and if it was insufficient for any reason the dash on most cars would light up like a Christmas tree. Cold conditions won't affect it catastrophically, consider that typical UK conditions are nothing like as demanding as those experienced in other climates so the engineering involved is nearly on holiday in the UK as anyone who has done a few -30 starts without a block heater will tell you.


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## baxlin (Oct 8, 2007)

I'm in the start up and go camp, but in the winter, I put a 2kw fan heater on the centre armrest, blowing towards the windscreen, for about ten minutes beforehand.

This stops any fogging up, as well as clearing outside icing, and of course warming the cabin.....


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## JMorty (Apr 25, 2011)

andy monty said:


> Car ticking over when cold = bad
> 
> Oil pressure is low at tick over and thats when you want oil been splashed about the most as in that state its thick and if the car has been stood over night oil will have back drained to the sump


+1 this


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## Franzpan (Mar 2, 2009)

Usually run mine 5-10 mins just to warm the cabin up before I'm ready to go if if its a very cold morning.


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

I go outside and start it up, flick demist on and heated seats.
Go back in, coat on bags, etc.
Belt one, radio, heater settings, and off.
Sits for 1-2 minutes max


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

I usually let the engine idle for a couple of minutes just to get the oil and water circulating at a comfortable rate then drive off keeping the revs to around 2000 and once the tires and oil have reached max temps then I give the M2 its gym workout.


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

30 secs to a minute whilst I get seatbelt on and phone in holder etc, then drive it gently for a bit.

Idle just long enough for oil to circulate and reach top of engine basically.

Also have a lifelong habit of pumping the clutch pedal once before putting it into gear, from the 1970's, when gears would crunch from a cold, sticky clutch in the winter!! 

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

Hands up anyone who remembers the days of chokes and the agony of trying to get it slid back in ASAP, because of the chronic fuel consumption whilst the choke was out... Lol




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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

JMorty said:


> +1 this


Oil pressure will be high when cold, pumps have pressure relief valves to stop the pressure getting too high. Oil pressure will be lowest at idle with the oil hot and thin. The damage of a cold start is done in the first fraction of a second when the oil has had time to drain away from the contact surfaces.

It's still true that a normal road car won't need warming up before driving. I just start up, defrost the windows if it's really cold and drive off as soon as I can see safely. I don't thrash it or labour it unti it's properly warmed up, and don't redline it until the oil temperature is well on its way up the gauge.


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## sshooie (May 15, 2007)

I just press and go, in fact I put my seat belt on before starting so I can go right on the press of the button. When stopping I don't blip or anything, just turn it off, never wait either, maybe only if I'm pre occupied with something but nothing consciously.


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## MagpieRH (May 27, 2014)

NMH said:


> How many of you warm your car up for a few mins before taking off......if its been parked up overnight for example? :thumb:


As others have said, not recommended and also not necessary like it used to be. Don't rag the nuts off it until the engine is up to temp, but they're tested down to temperatures that we'll never experience in this country, so they can cope easily with what we get.


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

Just noticed this thread is originally from 2013
:doublesho


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## LewisChadwick7 (Aug 22, 2014)

I usually stick all the recycling by the front door, fire the car up put it all in the bin, go back and lock the door and set off

that's all done in around 60-90 seconds and seems right enough for me


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## ahmed_b08 (Dec 15, 2016)

Kerr said:


> What's with all the old thread bumping?
> 
> Cars don't like be left to idle cold. It's best to get in and drove gently to warm up.


Most people won't even realise how long ago this thread started, well spotted.


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## cptzippy (Apr 4, 2012)

Teddy said:


> I do hope people aren't relying on the coolant temperature gauge to tell them the car is warmed up. Oil takes a lot longer to warm up than thermostat controlled coolant.


Motorweek (PBS show here in US) made this point this last week. Still the same four years later I reckon 

No waiting revving etc. just drive gently until fully to temp.

See you guys in 2021!


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

The oil is directly in contact with the moving parts and those exposed to the fuel/air mixture being burnt.

The water meanwhile is heated indirectly.

There is not a huge lag between oil and water temperatures that I have noticed, at least in the (petrol) cars I have driven that display them separately, and the oil will provide adequate lubrication over a range of temperatures because it is designed to do precisely that.

Engines in the UK are virtually on holiday compared to some countries.


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## Richf (Apr 26, 2008)

There is a massive lag in my cars , the water is up to 90 degrees in 2 or 3 miles the oil takes a good 9 or 10 to get to the working temp of 100 degrees


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

I always drive steady for the first few miles but i don't exceed 3000rpm for the first 10 miles to make sure the oil is up to temperature and just to be on the safe side, i don't drop the hammer until i've done closer to 25 miles just to make sure.


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## OvEr_KiLL (Mar 2, 2015)

whats the best way to warm up a turbo car? when i turn it on a cold start the secondary air intake is running which doesnt matter before its not running properly as i have a green cone filter and the revs are high then after a minute say they drop to normal
i just sit there for a few seconds, turn on the radio go around the corner and get the turbo going but not full whack


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## JayMac (Sep 4, 2016)

I always take it very easy when the engines cold, my wife on the other hand... 


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

OvEr_KiLL said:


> whats the best way to warm up a turbo car? when i turn it on a cold start the secondary air intake is running which doesnt matter before its not running properly as i have a green cone filter and the revs are high then after a minute say they drop to normal
> i just sit there for a few seconds, turn on the radio go around the corner and get the turbo going but not full whack


It is no different to a conventional car. You just get in and drive away, there is no need to use anything more than modest revs in most cars today for the first few minutes, particularly modern common rail diesels.

Leaving cars idling after a cold start is utterly pointless except where you need to demist or defrost the windows etc. You are merely prolonging the length of time it will take for it to reach normal operating temperatures. Even at fast idle there is a scant amount of fuel being sent into the engine and there is no load to work against either.

The oil, (provided you have the right kind in there) is designed to function perfectly well in a wide range of operating conditions. There is a website that will describe the technology in modern engine oils in considerable detail, I will try to find it. In the meantime this American kid has a useful video, if you can stick his accent at any rate. Fast forward to the end to see the behaviour of oils at -35F. For most of us, in the UK at any rate. We have nothing to worry about:






One of the worst operating conditions for an engine, is the 5 minute to work journey. If you are doing short journeys like that, where the engine never reaches normal operating temperature, you are starting down the long road of zero-mechanical sympathy operation. For starters, none of the exhaust will ever get hot enough, meaning your catalyst and sensors in there don't get hot enough to remain properly clean, and the engine oil will never get warm enough to evaporate any moisture or fuel etc residues in it. You can counter this to a certain extent by changing the oil more frequently but it is still not ideal. I do not know how prolonged low temperature operation would affect the engine internals or the surfaces where combustion takes place, I seem to remember VW having some issues with their old TDI engine where deposits would build up if the thing was never driven across the whole operating speed range, gradually causing the bores to become oval.

Turns out driving like a nun isn't always ideal either. Colleague of mine had no end of problems with his DPF, it was constantly regenerating. Meanwhile from memory I have rarely seen my DPF light come on to begin a regeneration cycle. His does it quite often.


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