# Broadband customer retention



## BoroDave74 (May 16, 2009)

Talktalk are the only provider, other than BT, unbundled in my area so I called up Plusnet for my MAC key. Unsuprisingly it was nice to talk to someone in the same language, and they had no hesitation in cutting prices. I wanted to ideally just improve my broadband deal, so I got the 60gb download for £8.62 for 12 months, which is down from £12.99 for the 10gb.

I know lots of you are already the sort who will haggle the best price in the first place, and then follow up at renewal to continue getting the best price, because it's more money in your pocket for detailing goodies! But to those who don't do this sort of thing remember - If you don't ask you don't get!

These companies want to retain your business any have leeway to discount standard prices. Remember if they can't or don't keep you, you're switching to a better or cheaper, or both, deal. 

Anyone do this with Sky? I don't have an alternative here so I'm not keen on threatening to leave when I can't!


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

i would just be careful you do not go over the download limits otherwise all your good work will be undone.


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## Matt. (Aug 26, 2007)

Everytime I try with Sky tv I fail. 

Sky broadband is unlimited in my package any way.


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## centenary (Sep 5, 2010)

Im on an unlimited tarrif. Its the bliddy download speed I care about. 4.5 flaming meg when Im lucky. All thanks to BT's sh*te infrastructure.


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## Jsmcn68 (Jul 3, 2011)

centenary said:


> Im on an unlimited tarrif. Its the bliddy download speed I care about. 4.5 flaming meg when Im lucky. All thanks to BT's sh*te infrastructure.


You do know that BT was broken up into seperate companies many years ago, There's loads now such as BT Global, BT Ignite, BT Openreach ( Engineering who manage the infrastructure such as poles Overhead / Underground cables etc) BT Wholesale who lease out broadband to any company and then the BT Retail you probably know. All ISPs have not put there own Infrastructure up with the exception of Virgin media and a few other cable companys, and to clarify LLU (Local loop unbundling) just means the company have there own Dslams at the exchange and deal directly with BT Openreach rather than have to deal with BT Wholesale but they still use BT Openreach Infrastructure.

Maybe if more people were aware of this and got onto the backs of other ISPs then they might start there own infrastructure and we would someday have a decent broadband service in this land. :wall:


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## centenary (Sep 5, 2010)

Jsmcn68 said:


> You do know that BT was broken up into seperate companies many years ago, There's loads now such as BT Global, BT Ignite, BT Openreach ( Engineering who manage the infrastructure such as poles Overhead / Underground cables etc) BT Wholesale who lease out broadband to any company and then the BT Retail you probably know. All ISPs have not put there own Infrastructure up with the exception of Virgin media and a few other cable companys, and to clarify LLU (Local loop unbundling) just means the company have there own Dslams at the exchange and deal directly with BT Openreach rather than have to deal with BT Wholesale but they still use BT Openreach Infrastructure.
> 
> Maybe if more people were aware of this and got onto the backs of other ISPs then they might start there own infrastructure and we would someday have a decent broadband service in this land. :wall:


Yes, I fully aware of how sh*te BT infrastructure is and Im LLU. ISP's can offer all the speed they want but if the BT copper cabling from the exchange to your home is naff or, you live more than a few feet from the exchange, there's nothing an ISP can do.

BT was broken up into different groups as you say but the fact is, they may have updated equipment in their exchanges but, they have spent diddly squat on replacing copper wire to your house in the last 20 - 30 years.

Its only now BT is rolling out this Infinity service which they claim is upto 40meg (I think) but check the small print and see what they guarantee. Goodness knows when the whole country finally gets Infinity, something else will have surpassed it.

In the meantime, BT will stiff you nearly 200 quid for a max 2 hour investigation on your line connection and nearly always blame it on the ISP or the home users equipment so they can charge.

I've spoken to a number of ISP's who frankly are outraged at the cost of BT's investigation cost. One ISP I was with A&A, regularly contested the charge BT tried to levy for investigating customers poor speed and connection. Even when A&A had clear evidence from their monitoring of the line BT still used to try and charge them.

When it rains, my connection drops right off but am I going to take the chance its raining when BT finally come out? There's intermittent noise on the line but am I going to chance it being there when BT come out to check? Dont think so! I've done the quiet line test and sometimes noise is there, sometimes it isnt even when there's no router on the line and Im plugged direct to the test socket.

Im not in an area which is cabled so that's not an option.

sorry for the rant but as I said, BT's infrastructure is sh*te.


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## Jsmcn68 (Jul 3, 2011)

It's no rant and trust me I do know what I'm talking abt when it comes to BT (Although everybody's an expert lol), I also have experience of other ISPs and do know on a lot of occassions BT are the easy cop out option. You seem to be missing the point that there is nothing stopping the likes of Sky and other ISPs placing there own Infrastructure apart from the fact they don't want to pay the cost. By the way the existing network consist of twisted copper pair cabling that sends an electrical current through the Tie pair in the Main Distribution Frame (MDF) in through the Bar pair and on out to the E-side cable. The Exchange side cable (E-side) travels out to the Primary connection point (PCP -Green Cabinets sometimes grey) where the cable is paired onto the D-side cable (Distribution side) out to the Distribution point (DP and then your propertys Network termination point (NTP) remember that this Infrastructure was originally designed for 64kbps (Some older cables only 56kbps) PSTN (Voice service will work fine on only 8kbps but BT are legally obliged to set aside 16 kbps which leaves little bandwidth for other signals including DSL).

Now remember this is Copper - metal (which expands + shrinks in the heat) and there are a number of joints / Pairs along the line your Attenuation may vary (basically the white noise / resistance on the line) depending not only on the length but also the amount of joints. If your noticing issues with the BB especially when it rains you may find you have Battery Contact on the PSTN line (Water getting into the pairs or cable although most of the time it's due to the pairs being exposed) Ask BT to test your PSTN when this happens (Good luck though with speaking to India lol) 

Check your router stats out and note the Attenuation and Noise margins when it's dry and also again when it's raining (shouldn't really be below 6 or 7 ideally), finally as your with an LLU they should be able to set your target signal to noise ratio from there end, also ask what speed they've the line set to and what speed your router's syncing up at as there shouldn't be much of a gap if there is ask them to reconfigure the speed closer to your current speed (Ie if they have your line configured to 8192kbps and your only Synced at 4096 kbps or something ask them to set it to 5 or 6 MB) to allow you a bit more tolerance / stability

Anyhow good luck with your BB mate.


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