# This section.



## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Whilst Optimum No Rinse is undoubtedly a fantastic product, and I use it myself, there has to be more to 'Eco Detailing' than just one ONR thread after another, surely?

This section wasn't really set up to be what's turning out to be a discussion forum for one product, and I'm sure people can spice up this part of DW with info, hints & tips etc. that have an environmental basis?

Just an obvservation


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Taking this on board - i guess with the advent of bad weather coming "rainwater" has got to be a eco altenative - Im sure it has been discussed in here but a subject that might need revisiting


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

There are different method at play.
I started a long term test toward the middle of February, last year.
I planed it to run of 4 months. But after this time decided to extend this for a full year. So that it can be used right thought the winter months.

In total I have used snow foam & 2BM method 4 time so far within this time. But these where times I was caught short and I did not have the test products with me.

But is Dw ready to wash there cars with 150mls of product.??
Personally I dont think so. And this is a pity as there are great products out there that do truly work.
Gordon.


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

It is true that there does exist this belief with the majority of members on here that the _only_ way to wash is with a PW, snow foam, suds all over the road and a gazillion litres of water. The recent popularity of ONR has countered this to a degree, and that's been great, but there has to be other products and more specifically techniques, recycling products and containers, creative use of products and natural resourses and so on, that would make this section more than just the 'ONR forum'?

In all honesty, Bigpikle's excellent video demonstration thread is all there needs to be on it really - endless threads started simply to ask something that's contained in that sticky, or to just say it's been purchased and tried, is making this subsection look more than a little one dimensional and lost for ideas.

Your thoughts, Damon?


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## Relaited (Jan 27, 2009)

I am in support of additional topics. No Rinse is good, and with the adoption process, I am sure there will be many needs and opportunities to continue discussion.

Damon, one suggestion is to invite Dr G from Optimum for a Best Practices discussion and Q & A. Why not hear it from the horse’s mouth? That will attract an audience and be a resource for future folks to refer to.
Here are some other potential topics, no priority order:

•	Steam
•	Success Stories with customers, properties, 
•	Marketing: getting Press as a result of thought leading green initiatives
•	“waterless”
•	Water Smart Eco Detailing
•	How to leverage a green business with Properties, Cities, Municipalities, etc.
•	Green as a competitive advantage. How to render your competition irrelevant
•	Current Code and Ordinances on Waste Water Run Off … and enforcement
•	Best Practices of a green business
•	There’s more, just wanted to stimulate some creative juices

Good news is that you can come out of the closet now. There appears to be a safe haven to discuss green and eco techniques.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

you guys just beat me to this.... while a big fan of ONR it is getting a little tiring to have a section devoted to discussions of how many capfuls to a bucket 

I havent been here much the last few weeks as business has kept me overseas for a while, otherwise I'd be posting the same thing. It made a good start, albeit with some fairly heated exchanges at times, but needs to get back on track. I must admit to being slightly jaded with some of the reactions we get any time anyone mentions a need to reduce the use of resources or alternative approaches, but lets not let that stop some good discussions.

There are some threads on rainwater, waterless etc so we should revitalise those and continue to explore stuff like Gordons excellent steam threads etc. 


Jim - good idea to invite Dr G. It might be a little tricky as they arent a sponsor etc but will speak to Bill and others and see what might be possible.

I was going to suggest 1 ONR thread, where all stuff can be posted and responded to. That way we keep things under control a bit more and give space for other stuff. More ideas and suggestions welcomed


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## dholdi (Oct 1, 2008)

The No 1 element we use is water. Whilst I'm all for grey water systems etc the methods of converting this type of water to an acceptable quality needs to be discussed. Whats the point in using 2b if the water in the bucket contains all the detrimental to paintwork products that have been washed off the roofs of our houses, garages etc.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

dholdi said:


> The No 1 element we use is water. Whilst I'm all for grey water systems etc the methods of converting this type of water to an acceptable quality needs to be discussed. Whats the point in using 2b if the water in the bucket contains all the detrimental to paintwork products that have been washed off the roofs of our houses, garages etc.


check some of the threads on the subject...

the water I get from my water butts and tanks is crystal clean and free of all debris etc. It sinks and taps are generally about 9" from the bottom, so its really pretty safe. Promise


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## -ROM- (Feb 23, 2007)

I read somewhere that new developments they are going to/thinking of have dedicated car washing bays where the run off would not enter the water table. The idea is per 50 houses there would be a car washing bay, you'd drive your car there (taking your own bucket, shampoo and sponge/mitt) and there would be hose already there.

The only drawback i can see (apart form having to wait your turn) is no power to use a pressure washer.


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## dholdi (Oct 1, 2008)

Bigpikle said:


> check some of the threads on the subject...


Yep, my bad for not checking the whole thread first, but as Viper points out the thread does seem to be dominated by onr posts. Maybe making the recyled water threads stickies would help ?



Bigpikle said:


> the water I get from my water butts and tanks is crystal clean and free of all debris etc. It sinks and taps are generally about 9" from the bottom, so its really pretty safe. Promise


I believe you, honest, again its how this is promoted ?


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Relaited said:


> I am in support of additional topics. No Rinse is good, and with the adoption process, I am sure there will be many needs and opportunities to continue discussion.
> 
> Damon, one suggestion is to invite Dr G from Optimum for a Best Practices discussion and Q & A. Why not hear it from the horse's mouth? That will attract an audience and be a resource for future folks to refer to.
> Here are some other potential topics, no priority order:
> ...


I agree a few stickys with titles like the above would be agood start

ONR / Rainwater

and perhaps a HOMEMADE ECO products uses

Like we know peanut butter can be used for trim and that a vinegar and water mix (along with newspaper) can make a cracking window cleaner


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## reparebrise (Jan 19, 2009)

As mentioned above, when this section was opened, many of us posted, and were subsequently lambasted :lol: as being closely related to the devil :devil: for even suggesting that a car could be cleaned with any other methods than the traditional(since when it is a tradition is unknown) PW, foam, 2BM ect.

Since then many have adopted ONR (a very big step in the eco direction), steam , and rainwater collection. SO with that it may be time to open up some past discussions and revisit the topics with out the knee jerk reactions caused by fear of change we experienced when this section was all new.


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## -ROM- (Feb 23, 2007)

I see a lot of people talking about rain water, but as far as i'm aware we haven't had any water shortages in this country the last few years, largely owing to the fact that it pisses down regardless of the season. So why does it matter if the water comes from the tap or is rain water? It all goes back in to the water table/precipitation cycle anyway, so i don't understand why this is an "eco issue".


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

rmorgan84 said:


> I see a lot of people talking about rain water, but as far as i'm aware we haven't had any water shortages in this country the last few years, largely owing to the fact that it pisses down regardless of the season. So why does it matter if the water comes from the tap or is rain water? It all goes back in to the water table/precipitation cycle anyway, so i don't understand why this is an "eco issue".


because there is an increasing shortage of rainfall and fresh water. Fresh water stocks ARE reducing, so using that resource for washing cars is wasting water that should otherwise be used for drinking etc.

Have a read here for more facts - water is not an infinite resource as you have suggested 

http://www.waterwise.org.uk/reducin...k/the_facts/the_facts_about_saving_water.html

It may seem that its always raining but its not. I saw this in particular this year when my 2000L of rainwater tanks were 90% empty in spring, when in recent years I would have expected them to have been almost full. Our weather is certainly changing and while we often see wet interruptions to our summers there is clearly less rainfall in spring, autumn and winter than there once was. Coupled with increases in demand that are never ending, there really is a need to conserve water supplies for more important uses than car washing...


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## -ROM- (Feb 23, 2007)

Bigpikle said:


> because there is an increasing shortage of rainfall and fresh water. Fresh water stocks ARE reducing, so using that resource for washing cars is wasting water that should otherwise be used for drinking etc.
> 
> Have a read here for more facts - water is not an infinite resource as you have suggested
> 
> http://www.waterwise.org.uk/reducin...k/the_facts/the_facts_about_saving_water.html


So where is the water going?


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

the growing population is drinking it, wasting it, polluting it with chemicals, using it in manufacturing (takes about 8L of water to produce 1L of beer for example), growing food (and that includes huge amounts for livestock etc) and combined with lower rainfall and sporadic rainfall, it is reducing stocks.

Dont forget the water supplies all have to be cleaned, treated and filtered etc before it enters the supply system, requiring large amounts of energy consumption (using yet more dwindling resources) and then of course the water supply system leaks vast quantities away before it ever reaches our taps.

There are well documented issues about the growth in housing in parts of the country and the fact there is not enough water supply to sustain the increasing populations. In parts of the SE for example the rainfall levels recently mean it is technically not far away from classification as a desert :lol:

Water use is also closely link to pollution creation for me as well. Using the average stated 150L of water to wash a car also means production of 150L of polluted run-off as well.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Do you think rain water is safe to use on vehicles paint without any filters???

If everything is true about carbon this and that, and people destorying the planet, I would expect some fall out / harmfull stuff contained in rain fall.....

Or am I talking rubbish?!?!?!?! 

:thumb:


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

reparebrise said:


> As mentioned above, when this section was opened, many of us posted, and were subsequently lambasted :lol: as being closely related to the devil :devil: for even suggesting that a car could be cleaned with any other methods than the traditional(since when it is a tradition is unknown) PW, foam, 2BM ect.
> 
> Since then many have adopted ONR (a very big step in the eco direction), steam , and rainwater collection. SO with that it may be time to open up some past discussions and revisit the topics with out the knee jerk reactions caused by fear of change we experienced when this section was all new.


Nobody i think was trying to lambasted people - I think sometimes its the way in which people write things doesnt come across how they may say it face to face

I think some posts in the early days certainly flared things up with difference of opinions and how some comments were written .....

Im not one for trawling up old thread but i do believe a well thought out sticky section will benefit the ECO section as a whole

Im sure Damon is thinking whats best to title various stickies -


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> Do you think rain water is safe to use on vehicles paint without any filters???
> 
> If everything is true about carbon this and that, and people destorying the planet, I would expect some fall out / harmfull stuff contained in rain fall.....
> 
> ...


well I dont actually filter anything, other than the fact that my water pump has a particle filter in it that prevents muck getting sucked into the motor.

TBH, our cars get far more rain water on them outside than we'd ever use washing them, so I think its a mute point. There certainly IS dirt in rainwater as the occasional Sahara rains show, and of course water collected off your roof contains some debris in it, but this settles to the bottom of the water tank, and all water butts and tanks have a tap that is a few inches above the bottom.

As discussed in all the rainwater threads, I have a few tanks 'daisychained' together which provides an effective filtering process, and the first water butt is only used for gardening water. All the others produce crystal clear water that is visually indistinguishable from tap water :thumb: I wouldnt drink it, but again, the second a dirty wash mitt hits any bucket of clean filtered tap water its no longer really clean...

And as to Bills point, I'm in the process of reorganising this section slightly and tidying up and structuring it a little better. In a few days it will look slightly different :thumb:


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I do have to agree.The Eco section seems to be the ONR section:lol:


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## bofh (Apr 14, 2009)

Well chaps I apologise for my previous ONR thread 

Normally I run a mile on green issues, I'm sick to death of being "green bashed" but when I think about it I'm now using ONR, my Jag runs on LPG and I'm all in favour of Solar an stuff as my fathers cottage runs completley from Solar.

I think one of the problems in general with the whole green thing is that as Brits we seem to get penalised and charged for green issues that no one else seems to give a hoot about.

If we are forced to go green it always seems to cost us more, and frankly I don't like being told what to do 

That said when people come up with ways to do things better, cheaper and with less polution and all the other associated issues, its got to be a good thing.

I have a PW and would be sad to stop using it but to be honest I'm not going to use it just because I want a toy to play with on the weekend, I have lots of other toys to play with :thumb:


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## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

Yes we should get more going on this section, personally it's one of my favourites but I think the limited number of perceived or indeed true options does limit the scope of discussion a little bit. But that's not say they can't be investigated in greater detail which is why I have a little guide lined up that involves an industrial steam cleaner which I will make an effort to sort out soon.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

It is pretty dull talking about the same old product over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.....

Auto Finesse are going to be doing something a little "against the grain" in 2010 and it dont involve ONR 
but it is a Eco stance  i would love to show all the progress and stuff on here but its just to prone to having other people try a knock off version and ruin what your doing.

I still feel you cant beat a PW snow foam etc to clean a car but i also appreciate some people want a more environmentally friendly alternative so its going to be an option, not our angle, but we are trying to widen our service range an cater for any one that wants a bit more care for there car than a hand car wash


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

james b said:


> It is pretty dull talking about the same old product over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.....
> 
> Auto Finesse are going to be doing something a little "against the grain" in 2010 and it dont involve ONR
> but it is a Eco stance  i would love to show all the progress and stuff on here but its just to prone to having other people try a knock off version and ruin what your doing.
> ...


I like the sound of this James :thumb:

Would love to know a little more about your approach even if its off the main forum...


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## ads2k (Jul 12, 2006)

james b said:


> It is pretty dull talking about the same old product over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.....
> 
> Auto Finesse are going to be doing something a little "against the grain" in 2010 and it dont involve ONR
> but it is a Eco stance  i would love to show all the progress and stuff on here but its just to prone to having other people try a knock off version and ruin what your doing.
> ...


I'm not one for all this ONR business  myself still not convinced yet...., but I do realise that resources aren't endless and looking into doing other more benefical eco things is NO bad thing. The best soo far is the 'rainwater' collection idea, which I will look into properly next year when I redo the garden and find space for it 

Very interesting to hear that you are doing something James, are customers asking for this service or is it something you have thought about doing off your own back.... not saying you don't think about these things, but I'msure it takes a lot of time and money to invest in making something business viable.

Be interesting to see what your upto


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