# Carpro Erasser V GYEON Prep



## Goodfella36

Hi 

Has anyone else tried both of this products as meant for same kind of job I recently tried Gyeon Prep now I could swear its the same product as eraser with different colour oh and eraser is cheaper even the bottles were the same with same numbers on bottom in fact a lot of the Gyeon range reminds me of other products :thumb:


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## cyanide69

Both taste exactly the same too


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## Drewie

Every gyeon product looks exactly the same as the carpro products, packaging, bottles, everything. 
I could understand carpro making another company and make it a bit more exclusive, but at least change the bottles!


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## SystemClenz

Both pretty much the same IMO.


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## Rayner

I remember when Matt ^^ got the sample batches of gyeon. I thought they were the same too. Probably are but I doubt it's made by Carpro but just by the same workers, in the same factory, under the same manager and by the same machine.... and the they charge more and say it's 'exclusive'


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## Goodfella36

Had it confirmed from a reliable source I wont be buying any GYEON product personally now. 

In fact the way I am feeling about a few companies at the moment with copies of this that and the other I will be only sticking to a few trusted brands.


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## sistersvisions

Goodfella36 said:


> I will be only sticking to a few trusted brands.


any chance of knowing what they may be??


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## Kash-Jnr

I really like CarPro stuff but Gyeon's branding is spot on!


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## Goodfella36

sistersvisions said:


> any chance of knowing what they may be??


it would be easier for me to say who I wont be buying from but then I would just get a big backlash of people or banned as I enjoy DW ill keep shut but rebranding of products is for me personally getting bit of a joke.

Gyeon branding is spot on but why pay more for what you can get else where. sorry but that's what's happening. ill stick to carpro for them kind of products


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## cyanide69

Goodfella36 said:


> Had it confirmed from a reliable source
> 
> I will be only sticking to a few trusted brands.


*If* Gyeon and CarPro are in cahoots together, have you also lost trust in CarPro as a brand too. 

It will be interesting if the soon to be released CarPro Shampoo is the same as the current version of Gyeon Bathe shampoo in constitution. :buffer:


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## Goodfella36

cyanide69 said:


> *If* Gyeon and CarPro are in cahoots together, have you also lost trust in CarPro as a brand too.
> 
> It will be interesting if the soon to be released CarPro Shampoo is the same as the current version of Gyeon Bathe shampoo in constitution. :buffer:


No cahoots going on I can say that much. so no will be keeping with carpro for the products I like from them.

Also Blit hamber, Optimum, Meguairs, Autosmart, etc the bigger companies ill stick to for ceramics max protect optiumu carpro etc that have been around a while not a lot of these smaller companies that have popped up where a lot of stuff is oh so similar.

hell X1 extreme of here I had there product and some car-skin ones they smelt and felt there same applied the same are they the same who am I to say but when things become to close for comfort they wont get my cash.


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## chrisc

It must be good if polished bliss stock it and push it.
Then again they do with most trendy in fashiin stuff


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## Blackmondie

lots of brands do this, but you never know for sure what the equivalent product is, so it's hard to switch products you like. I think people worry to much about this. If you like a product, just use it. If you think it's the same as a cheaper one, then use the cheaper one. whatever makes you happy


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## Rayner

chrisc said:


> It must be good if polished bliss stock it and push it.
> Then again they do with most trendy in fashiin stuff


Not saying this is the reason or not but a shop is only there for 1 thing and that's to make money.

Hypothetically if Carpro sell to me for 20% below rrp and gyeon sell to me for 50% below then I know which one I would stock over the other...


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## suspal

cyanide69 said:


> *If* Gyeon and CarPro are in cahoots together, have you also lost trust in CarPro as a brand too.
> 
> It will be interesting if the soon to be released CarPro Shampoo is the same as the current version of Gyeon Bathe shampoo in constitution. :buffer:


more freebies for ya


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## -Raven-

I'll I can say is just another reason for CarPro to release C.Quartz Finest to the public. PHPS coatings are awesome, and thank Gyeon for putting theirs to market. :thumb:


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## ph0

Can't see any reason to release finest to public.


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## evotuning

Gyeon Cure and CarPro Reload are also two nearly identical products


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## Alex L

ph0 said:


> Can't see any reason to release finest to public.


Why not?


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## ph0

Alex L said:


> Why not?


Because PRO only means money for their business and i really don't mind.


evotuning said:


> Gyeon Cure and CarPro Reload are also two nearly identical products


Gyeon whole range looking like carpro's and we all know which came first. Right?


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## Drewie

Only gyeon product that stands out is tire. I really want to try that.


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## ph0

Drewie said:


> Only gyeon product that stands out is tire. I really want to try that.


Looks like P.E.R.L. what's "stands out" about it?


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## Drewie

ph0 said:


> Looks like P.E.R.L. what's "stands out" about it?


It's forced curing, and that people have been getting 6 weeks out of it. 
It looks different to perl, looks thinner, plus perl is milky


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## ph0

Drewie said:


> It's forced curing, and that people have been getting 6 weeks out of it.
> It looks different to perl, looks thinner, plus perl is milky


Huh? You can use heat gun on perl too(as mentioned ON MINIMUM HEAT). Just like pros use infrared lamps for curing coatings.


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## Drewie

Where is minimum heat mentioned?


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## ph0

http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/gyeon-q2-tire.html read HOW TO USE. Those "tricks" are known just like people used heat guns or hair dryers for exo v1 application.


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## Drewie

ph0 said:


> http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/gyeon-q2-tire.html read HOW TO USE. Those "tricks" are known just like people used heat guns or hair dryers for exo v1 application.


Ah I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying perl had a minimum application temperature :lol:

I use the heat gun on other stuff too, but to dry it quicker, does perl "cure" like gyeon tire.

Probably worth stating that I haven't tried either.


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## evotuning

> Looks like P.E.R.L. what's "stands out" about it?


Not a single thing in common with these two products. PERL is milky and watery,also dillutable, while Tire is much thicker,also colour and scent is different. You can't dillute it, like You can with PERL.


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## ph0

Haven't tried gyeon products and to be honest i'm not intended to. Used perl and i'd say it's good stuff, i love it because it's so versatile. Used to use it on leather too, but now i prefer cq leather&fabric. If you want something good for tires you should wait for gtech t1 v2 which also reminds rebranded (maybe modified) tuff shine tire coating  Gotta love this whole detailing industry.


evotuning said:


> PERL is milky and watery


Yes it's milky but i wouldn't say it's watery. Well as i said haven't tried gyeon product but face it, whole range looks _very_ similar to carpros.


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## -Raven-

ph0 said:


> Can't see any reason to release finest to public.


I guess, looks like Gyeon have done it for them.....


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## CraigQQ

-Raven- said:


> I guess, looks like Gyeon have done it for them.....


or a weaker version :thumb:


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## Blackmondie

ph0 said:


> If you want something good for tires you should wait for gtech t1 v2 which also reminds rebranded (maybe modified) tuff shine tire coating  Gotta love this whole detailing industry.


is Gtechniq rebranded or tuff shine?
anyone knows if the C2v3 is rebranded?


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## neil b

In my opinion I think there should be a new thread started to list all the rebranded products out there that way people can make the choice of if they want to use them or not as members on here should have the rite too know what is rebranded and what is not as it's there hard earned cash that they are spending on products .


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## Drewie

neil b said:


> In my opinion I think there should be a new thread started to list all the rebranded products out there that way people can make the choice of if they want to use them or not as members on here should have the rite too know what is rebranded and what is not as it's there hard earned cash that they are spending on products .


But so far it's hear-say.


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## DJ X-Ray

The details to who makes what is out there if you know where to look. That's why i stick to certain manafacturers and where possible buy from the source ...


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## Gleammachine

-Raven- said:


> I guess, looks like Gyeon have done it for them.....


Gyeon have Mohs+ which is only available for professional application.


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## Trip tdi

Looks like the mitt is the same as the Carpro version one with a different name and tag, the bottles look the same as eraser and prep, just a different colouring agent and label would not be surprised if the product is from the same chemical company.

Carpro do not have a shampoo in their range, would not surprise me the slightest if the Gyeon one could be the new Carpro version shampoo, just a matter of time.


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## Goodfella36

The Gyeon Mohs range is more interesting as such but not new ADS also do Mhos type coatings which is based around hybrid polysilazane.

As far as who makes what for who etc you should just end the discussion there will never be allowed on DW after all people do pay good money to advertise on here so DW does have to protect them people to a certain extent which as such is the right thing to do people just need to spend a bit more time working out what's what looking at websites the information is out there just takes bit of research there are a few on DW who try to give hints on things every so often I just know it has got to a point for me where I do feel that the saying is true RIP of Britain i have said inthe past long as your happy with a product does not matter but when I am seeing such price difference for same products it is just taking the mick.


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## -Raven-

Gleammachine said:


> Gyeon have Mohs+ which is only available for professional application.


I asked Robert what was the difference between his Mohs Q2 and Mohs Q2+ and he said its just the Phobic top coat. Not sure why you need to be pro to apply a topcoat? But it gives you guys something 'special' I guess.

At least with something like G'Zox Hi-MOHS, you got to mix your own top coat before you apply it, and Opti-Guard can be a real pain to work with.


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## -Raven-

neil b said:


> In my opinion I think there should be a new thread started to list all the rebranded products out there that way people can make the choice of if they want to use them or not as members on here should have the rite too know what is rebranded and what is not as it's there hard earned cash that they are spending on products .


Not hard to work out who makes their own stuff. No 'made in UK' labels on UK brands products? Dead give away....


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## Goodfella36

-Raven- said:


> I asked Robert what was the difference between his Mohs Q2 and Mohs Q2+ and he said its just the Phobic top coat. Not sure why you need to be pro to apply a topcoat? But it gives you guys something 'special' I guess.
> 
> At least with something like G'Zox Hi-MOHS, you got to mix your own top coat before you apply it, and Opti-Guard can be a real pain to work with.


I Agree with you on Opti-Guard being a pain at times but it did last the full 12 months on the test on car and only one to fully sheet water off after the 12 months.

Raven do you have pm turned off ?


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## -Raven-

Goodfella36 said:


> I Agree with you on Opti-Guard being a pain at times but it did last the full 12 months on the test on car and only one to fully sheet water off after the 12 months.
> 
> Raven do you have pm turned off ?


No, pm should work. I'll pm ya! :thumb:


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## Gleammachine

I have written assurance that Gyeon is 100% original and unique, despite similarities to another brand. They develop the product and can tweak it to meet requirements, further products are due to join the range that have no reference to other products.


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## wadoryu

Now some of these comments are a bit stupid, think about this. One company makes something hypothetically called, shiney car +1. And sells 1million bottles a month. Another company is going to look at this and go hmmmmm, buys one. Chemical analyses it, and makes their own version and either dilutes it's to make it more economical and makes it stronger so it appers better. If some product is liked a lot why wouldn't a company want to add a similar product to their range?
Take iron x for example, what company now doesn't have a pH neutral fall out based remover?


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## -Raven-

wadoryu said:


> Now some of these comments are a bit stupid, think about this. One company makes something hypothetically called, shiney car +1. And sells 1million bottles a month. Another company is going to look at this and go hmmmmm, buys one. Chemical analyses it, and makes their own version and either dilutes it's to make it more economical and makes it stronger so it appers better. If some product is liked a lot why wouldn't a company want to add a similar product to their range?
> Take iron x for example, what company now doesn't have a pH neutral fall out based remover?


ok we'll use iron-x as an example. What if I told you CarPro don't make Iron-X....


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## DJ X-Ray

Don't they ?


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## Blackmondie

-Raven- said:


> ok we'll use iron-x as an example. What if I told you CarPro don't make Iron-X....


:doublesho


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## Gyeon Robert

Hi Guys,

It’s a interesting thread here and it took us some time to read it properly and in details.

To sum it up – the main topic is, that Gyeon is a rebranded copy of CarPro’s range, are we right? So as we like to make things clear and don’t have much to hide, let’s go through some mentioned issues.

Are our products the same formulas as CarPro?

No, they aren’t. Every single product is designed, customized and produced specifically for us.

Ok, so why are there so many similarities?

Product similarities? There have to be some. It’s simply not possible, to create a product with the same function, as. F.ex. a fallout remover or a oil remover as Prep not containing the same ingredients. Mainly it’s about the proportions, the effectiveness or the pleasure to work.

So, why are they packed exactly the same?

Well, are they really? We’ve put a lot of effort to make our range look outstanding and it’s the same about the quality of the labels, the printed manual instructions in local language (that’s something you won’t find elsewhere!) and the boxes the coatings are packed in (not to mention the quality of Trim, Rim or View packaging).

We’ve never claimed, our factory is somewhere else than in Korea. That’s why we’ve chosen some similar bottles that CarPro has. If you’d like to investigate this topic – there is one very, very huge bottle company in Korea, delivering packaging to nearly every company out there. They offer quality, value for money and are reliable – why would need to choose something else? Maybe, we should, but how does the bottle correspond with the product?

You’re wash mitts are the same!

No car care product manufacturer has its own microfiber or wool production line. Not a single one. The key is to choose the best quality product, that will prove reliable and comfortable to use. There’s really nothing to hide, we’re more concentrated to launch new coatings than spend our time on shaving merino wool ; ) And please spend a minute to compare our Q2M Woolie to the one from competitor, it is not the same again : )

Your coatings are the same!

No, they aren’t! We have two base coatings – Prime and Mohs. The basic model, Prime, is a standard, fast curing SiO2 coating, but made as easy as possible to use. Prime has been compared to CQuartz UK and nearly everyone claimed is much easier to wipe off and easier to apply. It has a very similar smell, but you can’t make a product like that not using similar solvents. Adding any smell additives would spoil the formula and probably ruin the products durability.

Mohs is something very unique, customized and produced on our special order in Japan. It has nothing in common with any known CarPro product, would it be smell, taste (!), application, wipe off, curing times or what so ever.

But PERL is the same as Tire.

Nope, it’s not. They differ in nearly every possible way, have a different smell, color, give a different visual effect, have different chemical resistance. We think that all differences have been already listed in this topic.

The same accords to Cure – it’s hard to produce a SiO2 based detailer/spray sealant without some similarities. We’ve done our best to make it as friendly to use as possible – without any smears and smudges, what was already observed by many users!

We have a completely different clay bar, unique glass sealant which is customized and produced in EU!(you simply won’t find best glass sealants in Asia ), a very good shampoo, efficient and extremely durable trim and rim coatings. We’re a small step before launching new products, which will differ our range from CarPro even more. But we expect to always provide new technology products and if there is something spectacular on the market, we will always try to introduce our versions. We expect that competitors will do the same if they find out our new product has good demand. There was a good example of Iron removers provided by many brands in this thread – so everyone copied Carpro? How is that? J

And now very, very important - are you really aware of how many real manufacturers and how many brands exist on detailing market? There are some huge brands, American, British, Asian, that due to their size and huge awareness nobody would call "rebranded", and actually they buy their formulas in chemical factories who deliver fluids to them and many others. 

As a conclusion to this post – we’re not offended by any form of criticism, we we’re aware of some similarities launching our brand, but never thought people would judge our products without even testing them, just by the smell, bottle or color. That’s what makes us wonder. Give them a chance and you’ll be sure they’re not the same…


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## Rascal_69

What a great response. Honest and true.


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## Rayner

Nice to actually get a response from a company on what has become a very regularly avoided topic recently

:thumb: to gyeon


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## -Raven-

Very nice post Robert!



Gyeon Robert said:


> And now very, very important - are you really aware of how many real manufacturers and how many brands exist on detailing market? *There are some huge brands, American, British, Asian, that due to their size and huge awareness nobody would call "rebranded", and actually they buy their formulas in chemical factories who deliver fluids to them and many others.*


I think people need to read this section over and over again. Not sure why it is such a big shock to some, pure sacrilege to others?

Have people forgotten about the whole CarPro/AQuartz thing already? That wasn't that long ago was it?


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## Drewie

Nice one


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## wylie coyote

Some very good points there which counter some of the hysteria that can develop regarding the similarities. Well done Gyeon for your post and not getting offended.:thumb:


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## Bling Master

Well what I can say is that nothing is like it seems!

Yes some products are very much alike, but there are not the same. It is an important difference.

Last but not least, you can speculate all you want but just try the products, test them and compare them.

When you do that, you are convinced the stuff is different. Who is better? That is up to the user. We are more happy with Gyeon than with Carpro.

BTW, even Avi confirms that the Gyeon products are not produced in the same factory!



Trip tdi said:


> Looks like the mitt is the same as the Carpro version one with a different name and tag, the bottles look the same as eraser and prep, just a different colouring agent and label would not be surprised if the product is from the same chemical company.


I can confirm the bottles are the same, but same bottles don't tell anything about the contents. It only tells you that there is one big Korean bottle supplier that matters.

Sadly you are not able to feel my pictures as the Gyeon mitt is much softer.

Also look at the details, the mesh is different, the wool is very different.


























































Some nice testing too, evaporation of Finest VS MOHS:

Both filled with 10ml :









During drying, Finest 1 ml and MOHS 5ml:










After drying:

0,45 gram Finest left:









0,9 gram MOHS left:










Nice treatment to see:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.635445136476243.1073741878.219738044713623&type=3


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## Goodfella36

I would like to defend my self as I feel people now might look upon me and some kind of liar I have the full range of gyeon products and of course Carpro the similarities between the two products for SOME of there range are I am sorry to close to call.

I then received a pm up after my original post which I am going to post as well I am a bit sick of the **** lieing and stirring that goes on I think of myself as a very honest person and well don't like liars or being lied to.

yes there are lots of chemical company's around the world but also depends how much you are willing to pay to get things altered when I was a business I was approached by two such companies one of them was quiet open for who they made for yet I have said nothing granted I don't buy chemicals from them but a colour change and smell change label redesign is easy.

Just for some facts that I never said Gyeon tyre dressing was anything like Perl as it is not, more factual would be its a close copy of ADS tyre dressing same consistency different colour but same instructions to heat it up.

Also there trim product is 30ml same as carpro and in performance both the same yes I have tried it.

As for your wash mitt do I think this is a a cheaper copy yes I never posted at the time but here a pic


















Do I think people are being ripped of in Britain to some extant yes there has been posts of DW by some prominent people who are privy to such information yes a lot of stuff is re-branded now people might think why do I care so much does not effect me and well there right in that respect but as I have a thing about honesty and openness then I will speak up if it makes car companies stand up and reply then good gets rid of all the clock and dagger stuff that so often goes on behind the detailing scene.

This post will probably make me very unpopular but never mind in all my time on DW I have always tried to help others and be honest as far as i can be without getting a ban right now do I care no feeling very fed up with situations I see.

Now as for AVI saying as last post says that products are not produced in same factory here is the Pm i received saying different as such though carpro do now have own factory very recently.

I think owners of both company's should sort this ut between themselves as me personally have had enough of the bull****.

Hi Lee

ill give you the truth behind that gyeon brand, i thought you know thart.. most of the guys who worked with us know..

these guys managed to close an deal 6 months ago and buy my OEM products, all there products are almost same as mine, 
there iron is 20% less power than ironx, bought 200L
reload, 10% weaker , there "cure" or what they call it, bought 200L
dlux is the same as mine , dont know how they call it, 5L
cquk, is 40% silica , there "prime". 5L bought
eraser , exactly the same only in red and other smell. 200L

once i found out i stopped them immediately, they dont buy it anymore, thats why i stop working with that factory and opened my own factory in Korea..( already 2 working) there Mohs+ is the only item they buy from japan, which i think its hybrid polysilazane.
anyway, once they finish that stock, they should buy elsewhere these liquids.
that wash mitt is exact copy of our made in china, ( the supplier nonstop trying to sell me).

As for the Aquartz Cquartz thing nope i not forgot that either but aquartz dont supply to britain and yes Aquartz as such are what got carpro started if you get my meaning raven. as for me i wont be buying from either company again


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## Modifier

rayner said:


> Nice to actually get a response from a company on what has become a very regularly avoided topic recently
> 
> :thumb: to gyeon


My thought exactly.


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## evotuning

So...if TRIM and Dlux are supposed to be the same product, then what is RIM ? Same product as TRIM ? This would remind Gtechniq style of selling one product under different names.


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## DS_Tomek

This is quite an interesting topic !

My company is one of GYEON local distributors. Before introducing the products to our customers, we tested them for quite a time.

Of course, we are familiar with Car Pro products. Ceirtanly, we did compare the whole range to corresponding GYEON products, before importing any goods for further sale.

We would not be so stupid to launch a new brand with same products in country, where Car Pro is as strong, as it is in Poland.

*evotuning*, CQuartz DLUX was in constant use in my company, and was one of my favourite products in the range. My first thouht when GYEON samples arrived, was to compare the Q2 RIM and Q2 TRIM. Sorry to admit GYEON guys, but I suspected they will be exactly the same, thats why I bothered you with all the questions about them  After over half a year of ongoing tests, I am more than sure that they are different products. They smell different, they feel different during application, but what is really important, they work different 

Same bottles in case of the Eraser / Q2M Prep are a fact - on the other hand, on my shop shelves I see four brands, using the same PET bottles, and I am sure they are totally independent 

The sprayers in Car Pro products are different to the GYEON ones.

The coatings are FAR DIFFERENT to the Car Pro ones - ask any detailer that used both of them.


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## Bling Master

Goodfella36 said:


> Also there trim product is 30ml same as carpro and in performance both the same yes I have tried it.


That is interesting, as I tried it too and noticed some differences. How did you measure and compared the performance. How do you define 'the same'?



Goodfella36 said:


> As for your wash mitt do I think this is a a cheaper copy yes I never posted at the time but here a pic


So just because you ruined this mitt, it is a cheaper copy? I don't know what you did with the mitt, but you are just being silly now.

I'm willing to test both mitts at the same time, but I think you don't want to listen to it?



Goodfella36 said:


> This post will probably make me very unpopular but never mind in all my time on DW I have always tried to help others and be honest as far as i can be without getting a ban right now do I care no feeling very fed up with situations I see.


Well no, everyone can have an opinion, but you really don't have a clue what is going on here. You are claiming things you can't prove and you can't know. That is a bit tricky you know.



Goodfella36 said:


> Now as for AVI saying as last post says that products are not produced in same factory here is the Pm i received saying different as such though carpro do now have own factory very recently.


Think about what you are saying. Do you really think what Avi is saying about his competition is the truth? Don't be so naive.

The best thing for Avi is just don't say anything about other brands. In his eyes, everyone is a copy cat and all the competition sells his stuff, but just with less quality... The guys behind Gyeon are smart people, the know how to do business. It just doesn't make sense to 'save' money on the quality and to let their customers find out that the stuff is rubbish. They are not stupid!

And if the competition sells bad stuff, people will know it soon enough by trying the products. For Gyeon it just doesn't make sense does it? Everything is premium, there is a lot of money invested in the brand and do you really think it makes sense to make the products rubbish? It doesn't.



Goodfella36 said:


> I think owners of both company's should sort this ut between themselves as me personally have had enough of the bull****.


I think Robert from Gyeon is modest, honest and fair. I didn't see him commenting on the quality of the products of competition?



Goodfella36 said:


> Hi Lee
> 
> ill give you the truth behind that gyeon brand, i thought you know thart.. most of the guys who worked with us know..
> 
> these guys managed to close an deal 6 months ago and buy my OEM products, all there products are almost same as mine,
> there iron is 20% less power than ironx, bought 200L
> reload, 10% weaker , there "cure" or what they call it, bought 200L
> dlux is the same as mine , dont know how they call it, 5L
> cquk, is 40% silica , there "prime". 5L bought
> eraser , exactly the same only in red and other smell. 200L


I know this story, as Avi told me and some others about the same. 200 liters of this, 200 liters of that. Do you think that is enough to stock all the Gyeon distributors? It doesn't. Does it make sense a competitor can buy Carpro products from the factory without Avi knowing it? If everyone is copying Carpro, then Carpro must be the original, right? Then Avi has developed the products and has the formulas, right? The factory should then have a contract with him to produce only for him, right? In the contract there must be a fine if they break the contract, right? But I'm still able to buy 'his' products from the factory Avi is talking about, why is that?

Do you know it is difficult and alsmost impossible to analyse these products chemically and copy them from this analyse results?

Did you test 'Prime' BTW, Avi claims it is C.Quartz UK, but is a completely different product. We have used both. And they are different. Prime is much easier to use too.

My idea is: Avi doesn't have a clue, he is just guessing. He doesn't know where the products of Gyeon are made. He doesn't know who Gyeon is. For me it sounds like Avi is just being afraid.

Also if Gyeon was able to buy Avi's products in 200L and so on, why are the product xx% less? They bought his OEM products, right? But they are also different and less strong? Do you think the factory will tell Avi what they have sold exactly to Gyeon, if they have sold it to Gyeon (which I doubt)? Why would they.

BTW This is what Avi told others:



Avi said:


> there CURE : is my reload 10% less concentration active material.
> Iron : is like ironx with 25% less power active
> Tire : is like perl but solvent base not water base
> Rim / Trim : is exactly like DLuX , they sold them the same
> Prep : is like eraser , only in red color and other smell.
> Prime : cquk base coat but 20% less silica


So first we have 20% less power for Iron.X and now it is 25% less power?

And for a product with 25% less power, it cleans very well. I even think Q²M Iron is a bit stronger than Iron.X, so where did the 25% less active ingredients go to? To Santa?

Avi should focus on CarPro, on his products and the quality of it. He should stop accusing the competition, mailing, PMing and calling people about how bad Gyeon is and that everyone is copying him.

He is succesful, he must keep it that way, because before he knows it he is selling Xenon bulbs, coffee and olive oil again.



DS_Tomek said:


> My first thouht when GYEON samples arrived, was to compare the Q2 RIM and Q2 TRIM. Sorry to admit GYEON guys, but I suspected they will be exactly the same, thats why I bothered you with all the questions about them  After over half a year of ongoing tests, I am more than sure that they are different products. They smell different, they feel different during application, but what is really important, they work different
> 
> Same bottles in case of the Eraser / Q2M Prep are a fact - on the other hand, on my shop shelves I see four brands, using the same PET bottles, and I am sure they are totally independent
> 
> The sprayers in Car Pro products are different to the GYEON ones.
> 
> The coatings are FAR DIFFERENT to the Car Pro ones - ask any detailer that used both of them.


We did exactly the same. We also bothered Robert with questions, because on first look it seems the same. But I share your idea. The smell, the application, the removal and the performance is just completely different!

The bottles don't say anything. For example, Dodo Juice has some PET POWER Bottles and Pet Power is a Dutch company, but Dodo Juice isn't. The Monello brand also uses PET POWER bottles. But Monello is definitely not Dodo juice  And there are dozens of examples of this.

The coatings are nothing like CarPro coatings. That doesn't mean I think CarPro is not ok, don't get me wrong. But they are just all different formulas. And I think that is just a good thing.


----------



## Blackmondie

Bling Master said:


> So just because you ruined this mitt, it is a cheaper copy? I don't know what you did with the mitt, but you are just being silly now.


no offense, but that a bit harse to say. A production flaw isn't possible? I'm sorry, but saying something like that makes me question your objectivity. Seems like you have had some bad experiences with Carpro products of the company, but that doesn't suddenly mean they are all bad now. they have good stuff.

I won't say anything about Gyeon, even if would be (hypothetically) the same formula that they twisted a bit so it's easier to apply, cudos to them, as they did a good job then.
If you like the products, great, If you don't trust it, don't use it I'd say...


----------



## Goodfella36

Thank you for cutting my post down in to sectors this was not about getting just at gyeon my post was about the truth that come out there is a picture on a thread showing I do have the full range of products so as such I have tried them and no problem I will do a video showing both products on a trim and showing the resistance to chemicals being the same what effects them what doesn't long term test well I cant do that overnight.

As for the wash mitt it disintegrated after the 3rd wash while washing the car so nothing specific I can say about that but do have car pro ones as well that have not done this not much else I can say on that.

I can only go on what i am told by the manufactures themselves I welcome your views no where have i said Gyeon make bad products.

But in the case of prep it acts the same feels the same but different colour then eraser when two products do the same job and so close you cant tell then I would buy the cheapest though personally I now only use panel wipe

Same as the tyre dressing so close to ADS tyre dressing then ill get the cheapest.

you can slate me anyway you want to but I have used more products then most even had 9 different ceramic coatings on my car over 12 months on test all video and pictures taken some on you tube.

I will leave it there I have not tested all the coatings this is why I have not commented on all the products if you notice like I said I like honesty.

Right now I wont be buying products from either company as well one says one thing other says another until the truth comes out finally ill just leave it I am sure one person will make no difference.

I take it you are from the TAC System where a lot of the products come from I believe yes I try and do my research before I say anything.

A few pictures to show I do run lots of test on products in a fair manner i have a you tube channel with many videos to show fair testing of any product I am not fan based in anyway I like to see the truth so if it takes me getting some grief about products then so be it to be its been worth it AS THE CUSTOMER can make informed choices.


----------



## Cquartz

Hi Everyone

Sorry just saw this thread now , wasnt here in the past few days,

excuse me for my POOR english ,ill try to explain as simple as i can, in short words,

I know what I know and whether you believe me or not is up to you- I am an honest man. Customer loyalty in Korea is not what it is in the UK and copyright/contract law is not as strong as it is in the UK unfortunately. Product copying happens all the time and in some respects I am flattered by the compliment. Where others use our products and our manufacturers to get a foothold in the market then this saddens me. This is one of the reasons I have now opened our own manufacturing factory. We are now producing 95% of all CarPro products here in Korea and whilst I don't expect many of you to come and visit- the invitation is there!

The new factory production now means; no relabelling, no re-bottling, full chemical support and R&D, quality control. No middle mens, no manufacturing contracts, no more copies! *From factory to distributor to end user.*

In the past 3 years I have tried to build a strong reputation for innovative products at affordable prices and with success brings competition and copy-cats. The only way to, is to keep improving and making new and better products. From the new IronX LS , the new Reflect polish to few innovatives items coming soon.

any one who has a question to ask me is welcome.


----------



## Bling Master

Goodfella36 said:


> Thank you for cutting my post down in to sectors this was not about getting just at gyeon my post was about the truth...
> 
> As for the wash mitt it disintegrated after the 3rd wash while washing the car so nothing specific...
> 
> ...I welcome your views no where have i said Gyeon make bad products.
> 
> you can slate me anyway you want to but I have used more products then most even had 9 different ceramic coatings on my car over 12 months on test all video and pictures taken some on you tube.


The truth will come, it is a matter of time and timing. I just think that even when a party thinks he knows some details about the other, that it isn't always a good idea to share these details with certain people or customers. It is better to keep them for yourself instead of using it for accusing someone and to give details how good or bad a product is compared to the other. As a manufacturer / owner / private labeller you just are NOT in the position to do that. Leave it up to the users and community to test and compare the products.

For your mitt, well it is (was) a sheep and like humans no sheep is the same. So it could be one bad product. The thing is that your bad luck with that mitt doesn't tell anything about the quality in general. It is a natural product and that can have disadvantages.

I'm glad you don't think that Gyeon makes bad products. And sure I do understand that equally performing product can be a matter of pricing when you have to choose between them.

I like your testing, but for ceramic coats it doesn't make much sense to use 9 different coats in 12 months does it? The products are durable and need more time to prove themselves.


----------



## ph0

Cquartz said:


> From the new IronX LS , the new Reflect polish to few innovatives items coming soon.


Seriously. How long IronX is in the market, and why all these new iron removers didn't came up with lemon/whatever scent? They all come the same, no f*ing innovation. Now i bet there will be some new iron removers with better smells after carpro released ironx ls.


----------



## Bling Master

The Dodo Ferrous Dueller was introduced in the same time frame and smells a whole lot better than Iron.X LS and also stings a lot less in your nose and throat, but that's not the discussion here.

And seriously LS is just slightly less worse than the 'original'. We have been testing another product for months now BEFORE Iron.X LS was introduced and that product has lemon smell too, but the commercial introduction will be in a few weeks. I'm just trying to say that it doesn't have to be a copy.


----------



## Goodfella36

Bling Master said:


> The truth will come, it is a matter of time and timing. I just think that even when a party thinks he knows some details about the other, that it isn't always a good idea to share these details with certain people or customers. It is better to keep them for yourself instead of using it for accusing someone and to give details how good or bad a product is compared to the other. As a manufacturer / owner / private labeller you just are NOT in the position to do that. Leave it up to the users and community to test and compare the products.
> 
> For your mitt, well it is (was) a sheep and like humans no sheep is the same. So it could be one bad product. The thing is that your bad luck with that mitt doesn't tell anything about the quality in general. It is a natural product and that can have disadvantages.
> 
> I'm glad you don't think that Gyeon makes bad products. And sure I do understand that equally performing product can be a matter of pricing when you have to choose between them.
> 
> I like your testing, but for ceramic coats it doesn't make much sense to use 9 different coats in 12 months does it? The products are durable and need more time to prove themselves.


Yes I agree the truth will come out but are you being upfront about who you are did you not once sell Carpro products yourself was there more money now selling Gyeon products for yourself if I am wrong then please say so just what i saw on FB :thumb:

Nope 12 months was long enough by that time there was many differences to be seen and observed over that time from the feel of them to the way they still repelled water to how much contamination was present over the panels and how scratch resistant they all were and yes there were variances with them all. though I don't think any company should say scratch resistant as Mar resistant is a better word scratch resistant can mean many things in people heads.

The products might last more then 12 months though after seeing all 9 products on sections after this time feel of car etc there are few I would leave on much longer personally after seeing it with my own eyes I suppose it all comes down to how perfect you want your car looking was there a differance after 12 months on the marr resistant side to yes i have kept pictures videos after washing etc.

The only product out of the 9 tested to fully sheet water of was Opti-Coat pro after 12 months of course not as fast as day one but was great to see of course this is not a ceramic product like the rest I also tested all 9 on a bonnet left for a week to fully cure then were hit with numerous chemicals again opti-Coat was the most resistant. I have found the products that are most resistant to alkaline and acid based products do seem to perform best on your car. I have not tested the mohs ones gyeon have made against chemicals so will not comment. but I am quite happy to do so and like you said the customer can make his own choice.


----------



## Goodfella36

Bling Master said:


> The Dodo Ferrous Dueller was introduced in the same time frame and smells a whole lot better than Iron.X LS and also stings a lot less in your nose and throat, but that's not the discussion here.
> 
> And seriously LS is just slightly less worse than the 'original'. We have been testing another product for months now BEFORE Iron.X LS was introduced and that product has lemon smell too, but the commercial introduction will be in a few weeks. I'm just trying to say that it doesn't have to be a copy.


Bring out one that does not rust calipers over time like Aquartz say they have done on there website and it would be a winner.


----------



## Bling Master

Goodfella36 said:


> Yes I agree the truth will come out but are you being upfront about who you are did you not once sell Carpro products yourself was there more money now selling Gyeon products for yourself if I am wrong then please say so just what i saw on FB :thumb:


I'm not sure what you are trying to say, I have nothing to hide. Just click on my profile and look what I've posted here.

But are you accusing me of promoting Gyeon because you think I make more money with it? Or do you mean something else? I don't understand what you are implying.

What did you see on FB?

I don't want to be active here as a company, but as a private person. I don't want to promote my company here as I don't have commercial intentions. And the UK isn't my territory either.

But yes we sell both brands, so what?


----------



## Bling Master

Goodfella36 said:


> Bring out one that does not rust calipers over time like Aquartz say they have done on there website and it would be a winner.


Do you mean the galvanised calipers that turn black / deep purple?


----------



## Goodfella36

Bling Master said:


> I'm not sure what you are trying to say, I have nothing to hide. Just click on my profile and look what I've posted here.
> 
> But are you accusing me of promoting Gyeon because you think I make more money with it? Or do you mean something else? I don't understand what you are implying.
> 
> What did you see on FB?
> 
> I don't want to be active here as a company, but as a private person. I don't want to promote my company here as I don't have commercial intentions. And the UK isn't my territory either.
> 
> But yes we sell both brands, so what?


I am not accusing you I am asking from a point of a customer and if you have a vested interest in one brand over the other as you are a distributor are you not????

Does your company still sell carpro products or has that now stopped/stopping ???

Take BMW clalipers they are not fully painted (clearcoated) like some are, these seem to turn Rusty very quickly if sprayed with Iron remover type products a few times Aquartz state "after rinsing Iron Cut, the remaining water-repellent effect helps in avoiding the formation of rust on the surface" which i take it does help with not just the brake discs but claipers as well. ??

picture of part i mean.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-parts/brake-calipers.htm


----------



## Bling Master

Yes we are distributor and we are selling out Carpro, but certainly not because of margins, profits or money. 

Everyone that is curious can PM me, I don't want trouble with the moderators here. Because, again, I don't have business intentions on this forum.


----------



## -Raven-

ph0 said:


> Seriously. How long IronX is in the market, and why all these new iron removers didn't came up with lemon/whatever scent? They all come the same, no f*ing innovation. Now i bet there will be some new iron removers with better smells after carpro released ironx ls.


Actually, the citrus changes the effectiveness talking to the manufacturer that these guys use. :thumb:


----------



## -Raven-

Goodfella36 said:


> Yes I agree the truth will come out but are you being upfront about who you are did you not once sell Carpro products yourself was there more money now selling Gyeon products for yourself if I am wrong then please say so just what i saw on FB :thumb:
> 
> Nope 12 months was long enough by that time there was many differences to be seen and observed over that time from the feel of them to the way they still repelled water to how much contamination was present over the panels and how scratch resistant they all were and yes there were variances with them all. though I don't think any company should say scratch resistant as Mar resistant is a better word scratch resistant can mean many things in people heads.
> 
> The products might last more then 12 months though after seeing all 9 products on sections after this time feel of car etc there are few I would leave on much longer personally after seeing it with my own eyes I suppose it all comes down to how perfect you want your car looking was there a differance after 12 months on the marr resistant side to yes i have kept pictures videos after washing etc.
> 
> The only product out of the 9 tested to fully sheet water of was Opti-Coat pro after 12 months of course not as fast as day one but was great to see of course this is not a ceramic product like the rest I also tested all 9 on a bonnet left for a week to fully cure then were hit with numerous chemicals again opti-Coat was the most resistant. I have found the products that are most resistant to alkaline and acid based products do seem to perform best on your car. I have not tested the mohs ones gyeon have made against chemicals so will not comment. but I am quite happy to do so and like you said the customer can make his own choice.


Makes a total mockery of the 'European' brands claims. Funny that where these coatings come from, 12 months is the norm.


----------



## -Raven-

Bling Master said:


> I know this story, as Avi told me and some others about the same. 200 liters of this, 200 liters of that. Do you think that is enough to stock all the Gyeon distributors? It doesn't. Does it make sense a competitor can buy Carpro products from the factory without Avi knowing it? If everyone is copying Carpro, then Carpro must be the original, right? Then Avi has developed the products and has the formulas, right? The factory should then have a contract with him to produce only for him, right? In the contract there must be a fine if they break the contract, right? But I'm still able to buy 'his' products from the factory Avi is talking about, why is that?


yep, somebody telling porkies!


----------



## Cquartz

ph0 said:


> Seriously. How long IronX is in the market, and why all these new iron removers didn't came up with lemon/whatever scent? They all come the same, no f*ing innovation. Now i bet there will be some new iron removers with better smells after carpro released ironx ls.


IronX is more than 3 years in the market, we were the first one to show this chemistry in the west , the lemon smell in not acid or any active material only a scent to cover the rest of bad smell, 
as i said in other thread we dont use sodium thioglycolate which has less aggressive odor and can manipulate the smell, the color change might be the same but the formulas are not.

the new version is not marketing trick, its completely new formula , different from existed ironX.
about the calipers Goodfella36 mentioned, we had 1 or 2 claims during the past 3 years, it doesnt happen with any calipers, only certain acrylic colored which are painted very thin on the metal,(we do note customers about that )using IronX paste can be solution to anyone who want to take extra precaution near calipers.


----------



## Alex L

ph0 said:


> Seriously. How long IronX is in the market, and why all these new iron removers didn't came up with lemon/whatever scent? They all come the same, no f*ing innovation. Now i bet there will be some new iron removers with better smells after carpro released ironx ls.


I always thought these iron removers were a rip off of P21S Pink Wheel gel?

I have pictures using it long before coatings were even heard of on here.


----------



## -Raven-

Alex L said:


> I always thought these iron removers were a rip off of P21S Pink Wheel gel?
> 
> I have pictures using it long before coatings were even heard of on here.


Don't forget sonax either. :thumb:


----------



## WHIZZER

Bling Master said:


> Yes we are distributor and we are selling out Carpro, but certainly not because of margins, profits or money.
> 
> Everyone that is curious can PM me, I don't want trouble with the moderators here. Because, again, I don't have business intentions on this forum.


Thats Good !
Lets not turn this into a witch hunt about one supplier !!! Some people prefer One Supplier others another - We all fall in and out of love with certain products - Only the two manufacturers/Suppliers know where their products are made etc


----------



## Goodfella36

-Raven- said:


> Makes a total mockery of the 'European' brands claims. Funny that where these coatings come from, 12 months is the norm.


The coatings on test were

Gtechniq EXO 
Cquartz Finest
Nanolex ultra
G3 Glasscoat
Max protect 
Ceramishield 
Opti-Guard
Opti-Coat 2.0
Gtechniq C1+

Quite a range from all over the world with in my eyes interesting results what I learnt is to be honest I would not want to leave my daily driver much more then 12 months with any coating with out giving it a good refresh did some perform much better then others yes. was there less marring/marks to be seen on some yes. did the hydrophobic effect last longer on some then others yes in turn car stayed cleaner but also 2 of the coatings did not release dirt as well as others so the test was worth it to me.

As for the post about the evaporation quite a few products do this while others do turn to proper glass as such this from what I have seen does not mean a product is no good.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=3767226&postcount=53

I have spoke to both Avi and Bling master and matter is closed everyone has an opinion and I best leave it at that but I do thank them both for getting in touch with me.


----------



## cyanide69

ph0 said:


> Seriously. How long IronX is in the market, and why all these new iron removers didn't came up with lemon/whatever scent? They all come the same, no f*ing innovation.


I've been using Wolfs Decon Gel V3 since the winter of 2011, only £9 a litre and it has a pleasant minty aroma.

Open your eyes and nose. :thumb:


----------



## Rich @ PB

Goodfella36 said:


> Had it confirmed from a reliable source...


Always a dangerous thing to state when dealing with hearsay. Even more so in this particular case, assuming you were referring to the pm you received. I've also received similar messages in the past. Best to ignore them in my opinion, but if you choose not to, then I certainly wouldn't recommend making public statements on the back of them, just in case they turn out to be wildly inaccurate, and thus slanderous.



chrisc said:


> It must be good if polished bliss stock it and push it.
> Then again they do with most trendy in fashiin stuff


This argument goes both ways. Sometimes we get in first and help establish a brand and thus make it fashionable. Other times we watch brands become fashionable and then get in once we are sure about them. The only thing we insist on is that we test all products first and ensure they work well. There's no ground to be made in using/stocking stuff that doesn't perform well.



rayner said:


> Not saying this is the reason or not but a shop is only there for 1 thing and that's to make money.
> 
> Hypothetically if Carpro sell to me for 20% below rrp and gyeon sell to me for 50% below then I know which one I would stock over the other...


That's not entirely true. If making money was the only thing that mattered to us then we'd be mad to persist in the car care sector! But, detailing is a passion of ours, and running a business based around it is very satisfying in itself (and it pays the bills, so it's not all bad). The most important things I look at (in order) when deciding which brands to stock are as follows...

1. Product quality; it has to be good, and ideally offer something new or at least different in the marketplace - this requires in-house testing to check.

2. People involved; we like to work with honest, enthusiastic suppliers. This isn't always possible when dealing with global brands, but at the smaller end of the spectrum it's equally as important as product quality. We've dropped many brands over the years because of difficulties in this area - morals and principles are more important than margins and profits.

3. Everything else; margins, supply chain, incentives, market position, plans for growth, reseller support, etc, etc. All of these things are important, but not as important as 1 and 2 above.



Gyeon Robert said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> It's a interesting thread here and it took us some time to read it properly and in details.
> 
> To sum it up - the main topic is, that Gyeon is a rebranded copy of CarPro's range, are we right? So as we like to make things clear and don't have much to hide, let's go through some mentioned issues.
> 
> Are our products the same formulas as CarPro?
> 
> No, they aren't. Every single product is designed, customized and produced specifically for us.
> 
> Ok, so why are there so many similarities?
> 
> Product similarities? There have to be some. It's simply not possible, to create a product with the same function, as. F.ex. a fallout remover or a oil remover as Prep not containing the same ingredients. Mainly it's about the proportions, the effectiveness or the pleasure to work.
> 
> So, why are they packed exactly the same?
> 
> Well, are they really? We've put a lot of effort to make our range look outstanding and it's the same about the quality of the labels, the printed manual instructions in local language (that's something you won't find elsewhere!) and the boxes the coatings are packed in (not to mention the quality of Trim, Rim or View packaging).
> 
> We've never claimed, our factory is somewhere else than in Korea. That's why we've chosen some similar bottles that CarPro has. If you'd like to investigate this topic - there is one very, very huge bottle company in Korea, delivering packaging to nearly every company out there. They offer quality, value for money and are reliable - why would need to choose something else? Maybe, we should, but how does the bottle correspond with the product?
> 
> You're wash mitts are the same!
> 
> No car care product manufacturer has its own microfiber or wool production line. Not a single one. The key is to choose the best quality product, that will prove reliable and comfortable to use. There's really nothing to hide, we're more concentrated to launch new coatings than spend our time on shaving merino wool ; ) And please spend a minute to compare our Q2M Woolie to the one from competitor, it is not the same again : )
> 
> Your coatings are the same!
> 
> No, they aren't! We have two base coatings - Prime and Mohs. The basic model, Prime, is a standard, fast curing SiO2 coating, but made as easy as possible to use. Prime has been compared to CQuartz UK and nearly everyone claimed is much easier to wipe off and easier to apply. It has a very similar smell, but you can't make a product like that not using similar solvents. Adding any smell additives would spoil the formula and probably ruin the products durability.
> 
> Mohs is something very unique, customized and produced on our special order in Japan. It has nothing in common with any known CarPro product, would it be smell, taste (!), application, wipe off, curing times or what so ever.
> 
> But PERL is the same as Tire.
> 
> Nope, it's not. They differ in nearly every possible way, have a different smell, color, give a different visual effect, have different chemical resistance. We think that all differences have been already listed in this topic.
> 
> The same accords to Cure - it's hard to produce a SiO2 based detailer/spray sealant without some similarities. We've done our best to make it as friendly to use as possible - without any smears and smudges, what was already observed by many users!
> 
> We have a completely different clay bar, unique glass sealant which is customized and produced in EU!(you simply won't find best glass sealants in Asia ), a very good shampoo, efficient and extremely durable trim and rim coatings. We're a small step before launching new products, which will differ our range from CarPro even more. But we expect to always provide new technology products and if there is something spectacular on the market, we will always try to introduce our versions. We expect that competitors will do the same if they find out our new product has good demand. There was a good example of Iron removers provided by many brands in this thread - so everyone copied Carpro? How is that? J
> 
> And now very, very important - are you really aware of how many real manufacturers and how many brands exist on detailing market? There are some huge brands, American, British, Asian, that due to their size and huge awareness nobody would call "rebranded", and actually they buy their formulas in chemical factories who deliver fluids to them and many others.
> 
> As a conclusion to this post - we're not offended by any form of criticism, we we're aware of some similarities launching our brand, but never thought people would judge our products without even testing them, just by the smell, bottle or color. That's what makes us wonder. Give them a chance and you'll be sure they're not the same…


And that, in a nutshell, is why we jumped on board with GYEON. We have found both Robert and Jeremy to be very open, honest and transparent in their dealings with us so far. Combine this with a range of products that perform extremely well (and that are subtley different to the competition) and all of our most important boxes (see above) are ticked.



Bling Master said:


> That is interesting, as I tried it too and noticed some differences. How did you measure and compared the performance. How do you define 'the same'?
> 
> So just because you ruined this mitt, it is a cheaper copy? I don't know what you did with the mitt, but you are just being silly now.
> 
> I'm willing to test both mitts at the same time, but I think you don't want to listen to it?
> 
> Well no, everyone can have an opinion, but you really don't have a clue what is going on here. You are claiming things you can't prove and you can't know. That is a bit tricky you know.
> 
> Think about what you are saying. Do you really think what Avi is saying about his competition is the truth? Don't be so naive.
> 
> The best thing for Avi is just don't say anything about other brands. In his eyes, everyone is a copy cat and all the competition sells his stuff, but just with less quality... The guys behind Gyeon are smart people, the know how to do business. It just doesn't make sense to 'save' money on the quality and to let their customers find out that the stuff is rubbish. They are not stupid!
> 
> And if the competition sells bad stuff, people will know it soon enough by trying the products. For Gyeon it just doesn't make sense does it? Everything is premium, there is a lot of money invested in the brand and do you really think it makes sense to make the products rubbish? It doesn't.
> 
> I think Robert from Gyeon is modest, honest and fair. I didn't see him commenting on the quality of the products of competition?
> 
> I know this story, as Avi told me and some others about the same. 200 liters of this, 200 liters of that. Do you think that is enough to stock all the Gyeon distributors? It doesn't. Does it make sense a competitor can buy Carpro products from the factory without Avi knowing it? If everyone is copying Carpro, then Carpro must be the original, right? Then Avi has developed the products and has the formulas, right? The factory should then have a contract with him to produce only for him, right? In the contract there must be a fine if they break the contract, right? But I'm still able to buy 'his' products from the factory Avi is talking about, why is that?
> 
> Do you know it is difficult and alsmost impossible to analyse these products chemically and copy them from this analyse results?
> 
> Did you test 'Prime' BTW, Avi claims it is C.Quartz UK, but is a completely different product. We have used both. And they are different. Prime is much easier to use too.
> 
> My idea is: Avi doesn't have a clue, he is just guessing. He doesn't know where the products of Gyeon are made. He doesn't know who Gyeon is. For me it sounds like Avi is just being afraid.
> 
> Also if Gyeon was able to buy Avi's products in 200L and so on, why are the product xx% less? They bought his OEM products, right? But they are also different and less strong? Do you think the factory will tell Avi what they have sold exactly to Gyeon, if they have sold it to Gyeon (which I doubt)? Why would they.
> 
> BTW This is what Avi told others:
> 
> So first we have 20% less power for Iron.X and now it is 25% less power?
> 
> And for a product with 25% less power, it cleans very well. I even think Q²M Iron is a bit stronger than Iron.X, so where did the 25% less active ingredients go to? To Santa?
> 
> Avi should focus on CarPro, on his products and the quality of it. He should stop accusing the competition, mailing, PMing and calling people about how bad Gyeon is and that everyone is copying him.
> 
> He is succesful, he must keep it that way, because before he knows it he is selling Xenon bulbs, coffee and olive oil again.
> 
> We did exactly the same. We also bothered Robert with questions, because on first look it seems the same. But I share your idea. The smell, the application, the removal and the performance is just completely different!
> 
> The bottles don't say anything. For example, Dodo Juice has some PET POWER Bottles and Pet Power is a Dutch company, but Dodo Juice isn't. The Monello brand also uses PET POWER bottles. But Monello is definitely not Dodo juice  And there are dozens of examples of this.
> 
> The coatings are nothing like CarPro coatings. That doesn't mean I think CarPro is not ok, don't get me wrong. But they are just all different formulas. And I think that is just a good thing.


I was going to pick apart a number of comments posted above but you've done in for me in a very eloquent way. I've nothing further to add - thank you.


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## WHIZZER

WHIZZER said:


> Thats Good !
> Lets not turn this into a witch hunt about one supplier !!! Some people prefer One Supplier others another - We all fall in and out of love with certain products - Only the two manufacturers/Suppliers know where their products are made etc


As above we don't need to keep going over ground already covered its about two products but we seem to be stuck on what one company does over another


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## Goodfella36

Rich @ PB said:


> Always a dangerous thing to state when dealing with hearsay. Even more so in this particular case, assuming you were referring to the pm you received. I've also received similar messages in the past. Best to ignore them in my opinion, but if you choose not to, then I certainly wouldn't recommend making public statements on the back of them, just in case they turn out to be wildly inaccurate, and thus slanderous.


Sorry but I though I had better answer this post if you read my post I only commented on a couple of the products not the whole range which I have had no reply for or proof as for the pm's I have spoke to owner of one company also had pm of distributor for the other company also spoke to someone who had spoke to great length of the chemical company who make products for both companies which is TAC (Carpro now make there own) hell I am sure if i had enough money i could import the same products direct myself maybe with slight tweak of course :thumb:

I tend not to make wildly inaccurate statements without trying the products speaking to as many people in the know as I can and getting both sides opinions this post for me has been interesting I know personally what I will be buying and what I wont

I will put both products that I think are very similar on test for all to see customers can make up there own mind as others have said.

This was never meant as any kind of witch hunt only a fed up person who feels a lot of companies are jumping on the bandwagon with a lot of copying going on as I said I had one company approach me and tell me who they make for which at the time was wrong to do but he was a young rep trying to impress no doubt if I wanted a which hunt I would open a whole can of worms with the many chemicals that are so close out there at the moment its daft or the certain companies that are buying cheap chemicals pouring them in a fancy bottle and charging 3 times as much. funny to see really as one such product if you read the MSDS for its from 2004 but company has only be going couple of years.

Never mind the the lack of warning/hazard labels that some of these products are coming in to the country with as they dont meet our standards Autosmart and many other companies spend thousands making sure they meet requirements while others don't.

As has been said copy right in Korea china etc is not like the U.K

I wont be saying anything else on products that are re branded easiest way is with video camera and showing what products resist etc.

As one thing this has taught me I really cant be doing with the grief.

I am sorry whizzer I did say in last post this was end of it but I will answer something directed at me.


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## suspal

Some good and valid points lee,a little bit of the old transparency wouldn't go amiss,must be the same old story profit before dishonour,some cans are best left unopened


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