# Receiving payment for cleaning cars



## LukeWS (Sep 9, 2012)

Hi just a little question here

Ive had a few neighbours come to me lately saying they like how i keep my car and the families cars nice and clean and would pay a few beer tokens to clean theirs. 

As some of you may have read before I've got a busybody neighbour who tried to tell me its illegal to wash my car on the street so no doubt he will have something to say if i got for example £20 on a saturday to quickly clean up a neighbours car.

Is their any chance i could get in trouble with the taxman etc as it would never be a business just a favour for neighbours in return for a little payment. Possibly 3 cars a weekend but not every weekend haha.

And what are the rules on say giving them my contact info incase any friends would like theirs doing.

Thanks Luke


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

It is your legal duty to declare any earnings you make and let the I.R. decide if its taxable, the fact you have a busybody neighbour I'd say it was inevitable that your business dealings would be made known to them.


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## LukeWS (Sep 9, 2012)

Ahh more or less what i thought! Ill have to do some research and look into it a bit more then thanks mate


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## Natalie (Jan 19, 2011)

Can any of your neighbours do things that you can't? So instead of taking payment you can do a skill swap with them?
Or if you've got a preferred drink get them to buy that for you instead?

No money swapping hands, no reason for the busy body neighbour to stick their oar in!


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## LukeWS (Sep 9, 2012)

Natalie said:


> Can any of your neighbours do things that you can't? So instead of taking payment you can do a skill swap with them?
> Or if you've got a preferred drink get them to buy that for you instead?


Hmm thats a good idea ill look into that  im sure a few beers would cover it


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## CTR De (Feb 10, 2011)

if your doing a £20 car wash then i doubt it would even class as earnings as your products your using could cost most of that to replace

as long as its not a regular thing then its a favour more than a job


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## Daffyplum (Mar 29, 2010)

The payments you receive will be more than offset by the costs of the products you use :thumb:So if the IR are informed you run at a loss purely for the pleasure you get from doing it, so no tax will be payable 


Edit: Beaten to it lol


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## RobertUtley (Mar 15, 2012)

They cannot tax you for a gift.

If they did come for you which they wouldn't then you and said neighbour say it was a gift to replace products and get new ones for when washing his car simples

I feel your pain with busy body neighbours I have a few luckily I'm a big lad so they usually scuttle inside eying their curtains


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## howie parks (Jun 5, 2006)

Tell them you'll do it for paper* as you collect it, due to a weird fetish...

*that looks like a £20 note


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## sean20 (Jan 17, 2011)

the old guy next to me is exactly the same but we don't talk however i started up my own valeting business just on weekends a year ago but i was already self employed
However my nan lives 2 streets away for me so i just do the work over there and my nans neighbours always stop for a chat and every now and again ask me to do their cars.

Have you got a Family member near you that you could do the same?


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## svended (Oct 7, 2011)

How about if a neighbour were to buy you a product that you use on your detailing list. Therefore no money changing hands, your maintain an inventory of what you've got, running low and whats needed. Nobody can really say anything if the product that's bought for you is used on the givers vehicle. 

Alternatively ask them to leave the money in the ash tray when you clean the car. No money changing hands.


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## efib (Sep 18, 2012)

If you don't charge and let's say, give me if you want whatever you want then you don't have a problem..otherwise you do..hope that makes sense.
edit. if you make a profit it's somehow illegal


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## SystemClenz (Oct 31, 2008)

Give the inland revenue a call mate, there very helpful and will give you all the info you need, you will know how much you can earn if any :thumb:


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## SystemClenz (Oct 31, 2008)

efib said:


> If you don't charge and let's say, give me if you want whatever you want then you don't have a problem..otherwise you do..hope that makes sense.
> edit. if you make a profit it's somehow illegal


Tips are taxable mate, and that is what they would class this as


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## LukeWS (Sep 9, 2012)

Thanks for the replies people  i think with the amount of cars id do i would be at a loss compared to products and if it ever got any busier then that id look into a career change anyway! Always helpful on here so either a gift or a few drinks etc would suffice as payment for me for now 

Thanks Luke


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

LukeWS said:


> Hi just a little question here
> 
> Ive had a few neighbours come to me lately saying they like how i keep my car and the families cars nice and clean and would pay a few beer tokens to clean theirs.
> 
> ...


There are lots of chances, if the BB neighbour is out to get you, he will if you are laying bait.
Whether the pettiness of cleaning the car in the street is illegal or not (there maybe some by law) , even the water authority could have something to say (if they wanted to.
I used to wash my car in the street, as well as awkward, it does pose some danger to myself and other road users.
and income is income, put it like this,the prison sentance for murder is less than for evading tax, Alcapone can confirm that.


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## LukeWS (Sep 9, 2012)

MattWSM said:


> Give the inland revenue a call mate, there very helpful and will give you all the info you need, you will know how much you can earn if any :thumb:


I think i will mate thanks  i get taxed on my current earning so i guess any extra earnt as a profit would be taxable?

Doubt ill ever make a profit but rather be safe then sorry! Lol


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## efib (Sep 18, 2012)

MattWSM said:


> Tips are taxable mate, and that is what they would class this as


then I should declare the money from the carols and from aunts/uncles etc :lol:


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## sfstu (Aug 3, 2010)

svended said:


> How about if a neighbour were to buy you a product that you use on your detailing list. Therefore no money changing hands, your maintain an inventory of what you've got, running low and whats needed. Nobody can really say anything if the product that's bought for you is used on the givers vehicle.
> 
> Alternatively ask them to leave the money in the ash tray when you clean the car. No money changing hands.


^^^this, if it were me...


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## LukeWS (Sep 9, 2012)

Avanti said:


> There are lots of chances, if the BB neighbour is out to get you, he will if you are laying bait.
> Whether the pettiness of cleaning the car in the street is illegal or not (there maybe some by law) , even the water authority could have something to say (if they wanted to.
> I used to wash my car in the street, as well as awkward, it does pose some danger to myself and other road users.
> and income is income, put it like this,the prison sentance for murder is less than for evading tax, Alcapone can confirm that.


Never new that about sentences! Lol so if the taxman comes along i should kill him and hope that outshines the tax evasion and they just think to sentence me for that 

Thanks for the info mate i will have to look into it more to make sure i cant be done for anything


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## durmz (Nov 2, 2010)

On a side note, interested to know where a basic car wash you would go through £20 of product? 

A small amount of decent shampoo
A small amount of pre wash, maybe snow foam, apc or citrus type
Glass cleaner
Wheel cleaner, apc in hot water makes this cheap

Tyre shine and some spray wax like ag aqua wax to finish. 

What else would you put in a £20 wash? If you're talking about de contamination and or a proper wax then yeah you're more up the £20 road I guess


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## ottostein (Sep 11, 2012)

I guess if its just a weekend thing then if it was me then i would be waxing family/friends cars, Inside also with the cost of elec. pressure washer using elec & water.

And kill the taxman, 4-5 years. let him cotton on that your not giving money to the queen then 14-15 years *obviously not just an example *

Congrats on your win btw Luke


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## LukeWS (Sep 9, 2012)

ottostein said:


> I guess if its just a weekend thing then if it was me then i would be waxing family/friends cars, Inside also with the cost of elec. pressure washer using elec & water.
> 
> And kill the taxman, 4-5 years. let him cotton on that your not giving money to the queen then 14-15 years *obviously not just an example *
> 
> Congrats on your win btw Luke


Hmm yeah thats the sort of thing i was going for by quick wash id say  so removal of tar and industrial fallout and a layer of some type of LSP

Probably should have been more clear sorry my fault their 

Thanks ottostein not received it yet as its coming from poland but still cant believe i got picked out had lost hope after the 12 days lol tried looking into the products but not much in english (they've said their putting english instructions in thankfully haha) so hoping to get some write ups on here for them


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

Haven't read the replies but talk to the local council. A friend nearly got done for 'running a bussiness from a dwelling house'
Thankfully he wasn't earning enough for it to be classed as a bussiness or some other reason they couldn't do him for. If you've got a d***head neighbour your better of dotting the I's...

All sorts of planning rules n regs about everything now.

And speak to an accountant about the inland Rev. Side of things too.


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## RobertUtley (Mar 15, 2012)

durmz said:


> On a side note, interested to know where a basic car wash you would go through £20 of product?
> 
> A small amount of decent shampoo
> A small amount of pre wash, maybe snow foam, apc or citrus type
> ...


Water
Electric
Hose pipe wear and tear
Electric extension 
Drying towels 
Buffing towels
Applicators
Quick detailer
Mitts
Brushes

Etc etc

All of those are consumables to an extent


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## RobertUtley (Mar 15, 2012)

RobertUtley said:


> Water
> Electric
> Hose pipe wear and tear
> Electric extension
> ...


Oh and also a thank you for his time (a gift from him and a gift of cash from the neighbour to reimburse for everything used)


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## durmz (Nov 2, 2010)

Fair enough, it certainly doesn't sound like your earning anything there so I'de have little concern, I personally wouldn't be doing a de con and a wax for less than £30 even for mates, but I guess it depends how much you get out of it as a person, if it brings you personal satisfaction then thats an earner itself


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## durmz (Nov 2, 2010)

Yeah I understand what your saying robert but I don't really consider the hardware consumables as there life and necessity is based upon your personal requirements more than the need for them so you can do your neighbours a favour. Your qd etc would be directly impacted so thats a cost for me


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## ottostein (Sep 11, 2012)

Just another quick word of advise 

Speak to the water board. You can get rolly f***** up for killing the rats off in the sewers :roll:


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## LukeWS (Sep 9, 2012)

durmz said:


> Fair enough, it certainly doesn't sound like your earning anything there so I'de have little concern, I personally wouldn't be doing a de con and a wax for less than £30 even for mates, but I guess it depends how much you get out of it as a person, if it brings you personal satisfaction then thats an earner itself


Hmmm true i suppose ill have to see how much i want to do and what it will cost etc but good points made another thing to consider i guess


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## RobertUtley (Mar 15, 2012)

durmz said:


> Yeah I understand what your saying robert but I don't really consider the hardware consumables as there life and necessity is based upon your personal requirements more than the need for them so you can do your neighbours a favour. Your qd etc would be directly impacted so thats a cost for me


Personally I'd want new mitts new towels etc for someone else's car so as to have to seperate sets no cross co tamination that's. big cost

Wooly mammoth £20
Dooka wash pad £20
Euro w towels blue £20

That's 60 quid that can be justified straight away on top plus electric and water

Could argue these need changing yearly to ensure no marring etc


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

LukeWS said:


> Never new that about sentences! Lol so if the taxman comes along i should kill him and hope that outshines the tax evasion and they just think to sentence me for that
> 
> Thanks for the info mate i will have to look into it more to make sure i cant be done for anything


Best you may get is the sentences would run side by side 
But yeah I take my hat off to those that can make a living from car cleaning, the overheads require a good throughput or high end jobs regularly.
But for pocket money, you can use 'other' products which more often than not are fine. Some may even surprise you.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Your pretty much liable for everything you do in life, it's the same for example if someone paid you to key their car or you do a street of cars for free one night.

If you cause damage or loss you're generally liable, if you take payment for it you would probably also be criminally liable. You can't insure against these risks.

If it was me and i wanted to do it as a one off job I'd crack on and do it, at the risk of infuriating the professionals on here who have to pay insurance, labour etc etc you're not exactly doing it for the money and done on a tiny scale. Even if your neighbour did complain it's not worth investigating and not provable. However if you're looking as multiple cars every weekend that's a different proposition!

If you do things for payment *in and way*, including, cash, gold, wash mits, shampoo, club card points, scrap metal or Esso vouchers it's still classed as payment, pleading otherwise will not wash (no pun intended) with the authorities if it got serious.

Summary - As a one off, crack on. As an ad-hoc weekend business, be careful!


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## WashMitt (May 27, 2010)

Your neighbours arnt going to want to pay for detailing products and that jazz just to get there car washed, also saying your products cost will out weigh the fee charged wont work (unless your doing it really really cheap, but then what's the point?) because you only use a fraction of each product on each car, think of it this way, you think your using £20 worth of products every time you wash the car? Doubt it

But as long as your not giving receipts then there is no proof money ever changed hands so just explain to the car owners that if anyone ever asks you did it for a beer down the pub that night, job done.


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## Jonesy_135 (Jan 5, 2013)

This may be a bit of a faf if your only doing a couple of cars every so often, but if you declare any earnings you get with Mr Taxman and state that your self employed (as your second job) all your products(shampoos, clay, QD, LSP etc), equipment (towels, clothes, polishing machines) and all sorts of other stuff (such as uniform, i.e. trackies that you have to wear so you dont need a belt) are all tax deductible, so you could end up with a tax rebate. 

It may be worth looking into, a family member of mine has just become a sports therapist, she sees a handful of clients a month, keeps the 35 quid a pop she charges (a declares it) and she gets tax relief for all sorts of things, it almost works out as the government paying her to work!.

might be worth looking into?



failing that, "steal" cash out of your neighbours glove box...


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## dan80 (Feb 25, 2013)

if anyone asks you could say your just testing products/ and developing your skills on the cars for free. as long as no one see any money handed over and the customer keeps quite whos to know. but dont do it to cheap, as your spending your free time working.


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

I guess the problem is the OP would prefer to be paid rather than gifts, although the gifts are easier to keep the Tax man off your back....

Go and see your local car handwash and ask them how they avoid paying tax.....


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## Maggi200 (Aug 21, 2009)

You're not going to be taxed on what you take, as its quite a resource hungry enterprise any tax would be negligible. You would be under the threshold for class 2 nic, which is currently £5,595 iirc. 

I would suggest you speak to them, as it may be classed as a hobby. For instance, a photographer could charge for paper and materials, reasonably, and as long as its to mates and family (not a trade you offer publicly) then it's not really a trade. The badges of trade will help you decide where you fall on this one, worth a look at before you call the tax office so you can probably help show them it's a favour and materials are covered. 

Any advice they give you, if you can get it in writing. As should their advice be incorrect on the phone, it will not stand should they chase any tax.


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

maggi133 said:


> You're not going to be taxed on what you take, as its quite a resource hungry enterprise any tax would be negligible. You would be under the threshold for class 2 nic, which is currently £5,595 iirc.
> 
> I would suggest you speak to them, as it may be classed as a hobby. For instance, a photographer could charge for paper and materials, reasonably, and as long as its to mates and family (not a trade you offer publicly) then it's not really a trade. The badges of trade will help you decide where you fall on this one, worth a look at before you call the tax office so you can probably help show them it's a favour and materials are covered.
> 
> Any advice they give you, if you can get it in writing. As should their advice be incorrect on the phone, it will not stand should they chase any tax.


Surely if you work elsewhere your tax free allowance would be used up there? Bottom line is although you may not have to pay tax... which i think you would, you would still need to sort a self assessment for the Tax man.


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## ro88o31 (Feb 25, 2013)

Dont take cash in view of anyone ie do the cash part in the kitchen and then no one can ***** either way if cash has been exchanged sorted


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## Maggi200 (Aug 21, 2009)

PaulN said:


> Surely if you work elsewhere your tax free allowance would be used up there? Bottom line is although you may not have to pay tax... which i think you would, you would still need to sort a self assessment for the Tax man.


Class 1 nic is paid through your employment. Class 2 is nic paid on self employment, and you have a separate allowance (or small earnings exemption) which is £5,595 to 5
April 2013. You can pay this weekly @ £2.65 a week flat rate.

This is totally different to your personal allowance for income tax, which assuming your tax affairs are straight forward would be £8,105. Assuming higher rate tax isn't an issue, any surplus of takings above expenditure would be payable at 20%. But no NIC.

The amounts were talking, it's going to be a very small amount, and isn't going to be weekly repeatable. So as I said

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/bim20200.htm

I think this is the right link, but I'm on my phone


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

Bero said:


> If you do things for payment *in and way*, including, cash, gold, wash mits, shampoo, club card points, scrap metal or Esso vouchers it's still classed as payment, pleading otherwise will not wash (no pun intended) with the authorities if it got serious.
> 
> Summary - As a one off, crack on. As an ad-hoc weekend business, be careful!


I'm not 100% sure regarding bartering goods if there is a tax liability. I thought if one item is worth more considerably than the other being exchanged then then there is a 'profit' therefore a tax liability, but if the 2 items are of the same value then there is no liability?

I read somewhere for eg. if I gave a lift to a group of friends or work collegues (car pool) and they chipped in for petrol (reasonable), then there is no liability, but if i charged them considerably more than the petrol used (ie a profit), that is seen as a commercial activity - i can't remember if that was to do with the taxman or car insurance though.

Can anyone clarify tax liability & bartering?

I agree with the rest of what you said, a one-off covering cost of materials isn't unreasonable imo (might be different regarding the taxman though). In reality I don't think the taxman is going to waste their time for hobbies paying for costs incurred.

Also I thought it would be fairly difficult in court for one-off jobs/favours. There could be any number of reasons why money was exchanging hands! ie they were paying back a loan for eg.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

Putting the tax issues to one side,
If you take payment you will also need to inform the water authority and pay business rates as your making money from the water use. 
You will have to inform local authorities your running a business from your home as it maybe extra council tax(business rates) 
Make sure you have MSDS for every product carried, which you can provide when required.
Inform E.P.A and seek advice on wasteage (washing your own car they will overlook, making money off customers cars wasteage needs to be either collected seperately or licensed to use one single disposal drain which has to be tested regularly for chemical run off)

Then if you allow customers onto the premises you require liability insurance, if you intend to drive the cars into the driveway, road risks insurance, 

it's probably more hassle than it's worth to do a couple quick valets a weekend if you want it all above board.


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

CraigQQ said:


> Putting the tax issues to one side,
> If you take payment you will also need to inform the water authority and pay business rates as your making money from the water use.
> You will have to inform local authorities your running a business from your home as it maybe extra council tax(business rates)
> Make sure you have MSDS for every product carried, which you can provide when required.
> ...


I agree IF you are running a business (ie to make profit). 
I don't think anyone disagrees with this, but I don't think the OP is running a 'business' (i can't recall if they are friends or family cars, how often and for how much). 
Do older kids who live with their parents that chip in to pay part of the food shopping & other bills mean that there parents are in 'business' & making a 'profit' or just repaying their parents for their 'cost incurred' for example?

I'm not sure of specific legal definitions unfortunately.

I think doing all of what you saying (informing local authority, liability insurance etc) for some friends cars once or twice in a blue moon, isn't needed - just my opinion though


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

kh904 said:


> I'm not 100% sure regarding bartering goods if there is a tax liability. I thought if one item is worth more considerably than the other being exchanged then then there is a 'profit' therefore a tax liability, but if the 2 items are of the same value then there is no liability?
> 
> I read somewhere for eg. if I gave a lift to a group of friends or work collegues (car pool) and they chipped in for petrol (reasonable), then there is no liability, but if i charged them considerably more than the petrol used (ie a profit), that is seen as a commercial activity - i can't remember if that was to do with the taxman or car insurance though.
> 
> ...


Sorry, maybe poorly phrased, by 'payment' I mean to make a profit, OP was speaking about £20 a car, it would be hard/impossible to suggest that's not for profit when it's 4 times the price of the local commercial hand wash, especially to a tax man who may not 'get' detailing. If you're doing quid pro quo exchanges I don't think you'd be liable...in any case it would probably be impossible to track down, value items independently and pursue.

I'm sure if you receive benefits (admittedly a very different situation) I recall they put bigger restrictions on 'doing things of value, or usually paid' to try stop working round the system with cash in hand/under the table 'helping a friend' type deals.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

kh904 said:


> I agree IF you are running a business (ie to make profit).
> I don't think anyone disagrees with this, but I don't think the OP is running a 'business' (i can't recall if they are friends or family cars, how often and for how much).
> Do older kids who live with their parents that chip in to pay part of the food shopping & other bills mean that there parents are in 'business' & making a 'profit' or just repaying their parents for their 'cost incurred' for example?
> 
> ...


OP say's it's neighbours/friends ect but if your taking money, and paying tax, he would need to be self employed, which means operating a business.

I agree with what your saying, that it _shouldn't_ be necessary for all those things to do a few friends cars ect, but as soon as money exchanges hands then unfortunately it is as far as I can tell.

If caught, I doubt there would be any serious implications arising from avoiding the local authority rates and/or EPA regulations. However that is upto the OP to weigh the risk against the reward and do what he chooses once he has the necessary information.


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## TigerUK (Apr 1, 2012)

S63 said:


> It is your legal duty to declare any earnings you make and let the I.R. decide if its taxable, the fact you have a busybody neighbour I'd say it was inevitable that your business dealings would be made known to them.


that just deals with the taxation. If you do a few car washes I guess you could effectively reclaim some of the tax you paid because you bought the car wash gear using you tax deducted income.

But it doesn't deal with your local councils policy on this - most likely if you ask they'll tell you if you're profiting from washing cars you will require a business permit - mostly likely you will not be able to carry out your business on a residential road anway. But good news is - this would be a civil offence and not a criminal offce.

HOWEVER. I learnt that it's generally better for you to keep the peace with your neighbours - especially your immediate neighbours.

Doing your own car is fine - but when you start doing 3/4/5 cars a weeked and have all your noisy equipment out in front of the house, and all the street and paving is wet - it will definately annoy the neighbours.

Plus - honestly, washing cars is fine when you do it on your own - you do it out of love. But if you do it for money for lots of other people. It becomes monotonous and like any other crap manual labour job,


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