# starting out



## stephen2982 (Jul 7, 2011)

if someone wanted to start out cleaning cars, would you recommend valeting or detailing? with detailing obviously correction comes into play but as a valeter i'd want to still, snow foam. rinse, prewash, clay, polish, wax/sealant then maybe a lsp. but without having detailing experience would i be better leaving the polish out of it.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Start as a valeter imho, there's a lot to learn on lots of different types of paint etc.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

sealant or wax _is_ the LSP


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

stephen2982 said:


> if someone wanted to start out cleaning cars, would you recommend valeting or detailing? with detailing obviously correction comes into play but as a valeter i'd want to still, snow foam. rinse, prewash, clay, polish, wax/sealant then maybe a lsp. but without having detailing experience would i be better leaving the polish out of it.


Detailing is the top end of valeting, simple as that really.

You need valeting experience behind you really before you would be in a position to offer competitive professional detailing.

Thats just my opinion of course, some will no doubt disagree.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

-Kev- said:


> sealant or wax _is_ the LSP


ooooh rookie mistake.. good spot kev :lol:

i'd agree with whats in this thread... theres a ton to learn before hand and its probably not an easy job..

but valeting would be an easier learning curve..


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

was'nt taking the mickey, just pointing something out


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

stephen2982 said:


> if someone wanted to start out cleaning cars, would you recommend valeting or detailing? with detailing obviously correction comes into play but as a valeter i'd want to still, snow foam. rinse, prewash, clay, polish, wax/sealant then maybe a lsp. but without having detailing experience would i be better leaving the polish out of it.


I'm in the same situation at the moment. I'm trying to set myself up as a mobile valeter/detailer and when it comes to the valeting side of things the main problem i'm having with private customers is competing with the hand car washes (i've just seen yet another new one) because they're really cheap and no one knows any better so flock there in their droves. Obviously for private customers my prices have to be higher than theirs because I have to factor in things like the fact it takes me longer to do a car because there's only one of me compared to 3 Albanians per car at the local swirl centre/hand car wash, there's also travel costs and also the fact that I want to offer the highest quality service I can and obviously this means using higher quality products which cost more money. The thing is though is that even though I have had alot of potential interest everyone seems to think that i'm 'overpriced' as my prices are higher than the hand car wash. I have to charge a minimum of about £15 - £20 for a basic wash for private customers to be sure to at least make a reasonable profit on each job (I can only do maybe 7 jobs a day in the summer and 4-5 in the winter provided I don't have to travel miles between each one) but everyone thinks this is too much. After all if they ain't gonna pay £20 for a wash they certainly won't pay £100 for a wash, clay, interior clean, basic polish and wax, a full valet/basic detail in other words. If you can do trade work then valeting can be quite lucrative since you can do maybe 20-30 cars at once in one place which mitigates travel time and costs.

With detailing experience obviously helps but everyone has to start somewhere with it, quite where I don't know, is someone with an expensive car really going to trust a new detailer who's only just starting out? and to be honest the majority of people with normal cars aren't bothered and wouldn't know what detailing is.

Starting out as a valeter is probably the best option provided you are able to do the trade work where most of the money is as most of the private sector seems to be covered by the rise of the cheap hand car washes. But you should do the right type of work, is scratching the hell out of peoples cars at the same level as the hand car washes really going to get you anywhere or teach you anything?

I don't want this to come across as a rant about my personal problems but I fear it may well have done  (I may start another thread to cover this in more detail if I feel I need to)


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Laurie.J.M said:


> With detailing experience obviously helps but everyone has to start somewhere with it, quite where I don't know, is someone with an expensive car really going to trust a new detailer who's only just starting out? and to be honest the majority of people with normal cars aren't bothered and wouldn't know what detailing is.


You will find most (if not all) the highest regarded detailers in the industry started out doing run of the mill valeting and/or dealer preping, working to a good standard there to build up decent reputation first. Thats where you start, you can't be the master of your trade without experience and you need to learn the basics properly before you take on the more advanced side of things IMO as there is lots to be learned here at the basic level that you will take through with you all the way through.


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## stephen2982 (Jul 7, 2011)

lol oops, i ment using a product like zaino z8 for a final finish.

so does a valeter offer a wax/seal? but could they still offer a polish? or is this strickly a detailer/experience thing


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

hand polish only probably..


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## stephen2982 (Jul 7, 2011)

as anyone got any experience with these products http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CAR-VALETING-...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item19c6b1bd7a

would they be ideal to start out or should i opt for better makes of product like megs, chemical guys etc.


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## stephen2982 (Jul 7, 2011)

-Kev- said:


> hand polish only probably..


true that i can do, i've used rubbing compound before and DA sanders/polishers.
i used to be a alloy wheel refurbisher but obviously the rubbing compound wasn't used for that!


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## WannaBd (Dec 18, 2010)

Price is the big argument, most people want to pay the least money possible to clean their car because the minute the drive it away it's getting dirty. Valeting is not about charging £20 for a wash, that a price for weekly or fortnightly in and out clean of a car without any extras, de tar, clay, polish, wax/seal. Anyway, I started out before all these hand car washes started but mobile valeters have the edge because we can clean at peoples home or work while they work and not have to wait in some old petrol station shop! Get some business cards done and canvass businesses I did this nearly 5 years ago and I still do the same customers cars I did on my 1st day and that was working out of the back of my car, work to a good standard, using good products, majority of my gear is autosmart, along with others, and work will grow through word of mouth. that's some of my advice anyway.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

speak to mark @ autobrite on here about start up kits..


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Not an easy game to get into and if you have bills to pay regularly then I would definately start at weekends and be prepared for some set up costs. Also the quieter months when new are hard - very hard.

I personally struggled and it was so hard I would never want to do it again.

Good luck though :thumb:


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## stephen2982 (Jul 7, 2011)

WannaBd, Do you mean you charge or don't charge £20 for a valet? that price seems to cheap to me.

showshine, but you are set up now though right? i'm thinking of doing it part time to start me off then see how it goes.

any ideas on what products to get to cover me for all types of work, a list would be great.


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## dcj (Apr 17, 2009)

stephen2982 said:


> WannaBd, Do you mean you charge or don't charge £20 for a valet? that price seems to cheap to me.
> 
> showshine, but you are set up now though right? i'm thinking of doing it part time to start me off then see how it goes.
> 
> any ideas on what products to get to cover me for all types of work, a list would be great.


You can do a mini valet on a regular basis for £20/25 just try to keep these jobs close together travel wise.


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## mejinks (Nov 22, 2009)

James B said:


> Detailing is the top end of valeting, simple as that really.
> 
> You need valeting experience behind you really before you would be in a position to offer competitive professional detailing.
> 
> Thats just my opinion of course, some will no doubt disagree.


I wholeheartedly agree :thumb:


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## stephen2982 (Jul 7, 2011)

well valeting only was my main objective, and it won't be the run of the mill supermarket jobbies with brillo and oven cleaner.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

stephen2982 said:


> well valeting only was my main objective, and it won't be the run of the mill supermarket jobbies with brillo and oven cleaner.


I would not call what they do in those car parks Valeting, thats a discredit to people who actually do valet cars properly for a living, what those guys do is car cleaning at best.


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## RedUntilDead (Feb 10, 2009)

The refugee wash n go`s are on the increase here. A few petrol stations that had them drive through car washes installed already but left unused, have turned the space over to these guys. A shed goes up (thats the office/shelter/stores) and a sign goes up next to the road advertising a £5 wash. My gripe is, are they insured? what if that sign falls over and hits a car/kid on bike? My mate was advised against displaying an a board outside his shop. Should someone hurt themselves on it, he would face an expensive claim. do they pay the same taxes ect like the sun bed shops
How can you compete if you conduct your business properly?


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

stephen2982 said:


> WannaBd, Do you mean you charge or don't charge £20 for a valet? that price seems to cheap to me.
> 
> *showshine, but you are set up now though right? i'm thinking of doing it part time to start me off then see how it goes.*any ideas on what products to get to cover me for all types of work, a list would be great.


Yes but I lost £8 grand in wages and spent 4 months without a penny and almost lost my house.
Sold my pride and joy and nearly got divorced.

I aint trying to put you off I am merely pointing out that it is the hardest thing I have ever done and is still hard when the phone doesn't ring


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

dcj said:


> You can do a mini valet on a regular basis for £20/25 just try to keep these jobs close together travel wise.


That's what i'm trying to do. I have a couple of regulars but need more. I've also had some one off where people want there car prepared for a special ocassion. Once I've done a basic valet for a customer a few times to a good standard I try to encourage them to have the full valet/basic detail every few months and offer a small discount on a basic valet once they've had it done since its easier to wash a waxed car and it doesn't take as long.



James B said:


> I would not call what they do in those car parks Valeting, thats a discredit to people who actually do valet cars properly for a living, what's those guys do is car cleaning at best.


They really are a disgrace to profession of valeting but what can we going to do stop them?



RedUntilDead said:


> How can you compete if you conduct your business properly?


With difficulty. No one seems to know any better than to use them since their cheaper and more convenient than getting in a proper valeter who will do a much better job.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

you can't 'stop' them all the while people like the job they do and pay for it


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

James has hit the nail on the head in all of his posts so far. You need to start somewhere. The separation of valet / detail is always a viscous circle with flip sides to everything but never the less, its all down to thorough and meticulous cleaning with an attention to the little things that separate you from the gritty warrior at the local supermarket or petrol station. You need to learn common key fundamentals before stepping up the game. How do can you differentiate between what is right and what is wrong without a few smaller mistakes and learning curves. The main dealership sides of things is a good way of understanding right from wrong. With that, you have will finally understand and adapt a better approach to thorough car cleaning and along with that and time come product knowledge. None of which are learned and understood overnight nor reading all manner of views and opinions on forums imo.


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## Chicane (Mar 31, 2011)

so, what would you class as a mini-valet in terms of a step by step process? and how much time would you allocate for the job if it was a fixed price?


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## JasonH20URF (Mar 30, 2011)

Im looking at going into detailing as down here in "sunny Devon" there is quite a few valets but ive never seen any detailing or paint correction without it being a bodyshop respray. Ive kept my 50 hours a week job and i started doing valets over a weekend a couple of months ago, put a 500 into a seperate account for meterials and all the money goes in and out of this account. ive had about 15 customers so far and about 6 of them have said they want a full valet oh and can you have a look at this (normaly a bad panel that needs correction ) so i give them a price for the valet and then for the correction and they can choose. Also as its not a full correction it doesnt take a large amount of time and if im not happy with my results i can give them a discount. I find its a good way of getting experience and building a reputation too 

Hope this helps a bit


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## stephen2982 (Jul 7, 2011)

thanks for the information so far.

could i please have a typical product list that you guys have in your arsenal, from apc to lsp. i know products are an individual taste but just a quick run down of what you use on a daily basis.


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

James B said:


> Detailing is the top end of valeting, simple as that really.
> 
> You need valeting experience behind you really before you would be in a position to offer competitive professional detailing.
> 
> Thats just my opinion of course, some will no doubt disagree.


Nail on head


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## PrestigeChris (Nov 17, 2009)

From the ground up i think is the best description on this one!


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## raitkens83 (Jun 7, 2009)

stephen2982 said:


> thanks for the information so far.
> 
> could i please have a typical product list that you guys have in your arsenal, from apc to lsp. i know products are an individual taste but just a quick run down of what you use on a daily basis.


Your asking if you should become a detailer but also asking what people are using. I think that answers your question that your not ready to be a detailer.


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## Chufster (Nov 21, 2010)

What products do you use when you detail/valet your own car? That should tell you what steps are required and in what order.

Then just find trade versions of the product categories that you already use.


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

Chicane said:


> so, what would you class as a mini-valet in terms of a step by step process? and how much time would you allocate for the job if it was a fixed price?


It varies from person to person, with the basic valet I do Snow foam (leave to dwell whilst preparing buckets and shampoo for the next stage), wash using 2bm (wash and wax shampoo isn't a bad idea if you know the car doesn't have anything on it as it leaves a better finish and makes drying easier as the water tends to sheet off pretty well), clean wheels and tyres using proper cleaners, do a final rinse using filtered water if possible since it leaves a nicer finish (you don't need to hand dry if you do this), whilst its drying do a basic interior clean (vacuum, clean and dust dashboard and door cards), I do things like add in trim dressing and tyre gel and add in a coat of quick detailer if I feel it's required. For a mini valet I'd add in a claying stage and then a coat of wax or sealant, and for the full valet add in a polishing stage using something like SRP/Radiant wax which can either done by hand or using a DA and other small extras like applying a wheel sealant such as Rimwax and polishing up metal trim. I try to keep a basic valet to about 90 minutes at the most, mini valet to about 2.5 hours and a full to about 4-5 hours (I be able to do it faster and to the same level of quality as I get more experienced)



stephen2982 said:


> thanks for the information so far.
> 
> could i please have a typical product list that you guys have in your arsenal, from apc to lsp. i know products are an individual taste but just a quick run down of what you use on a daily basis.


Well for a full valet:

APC at various dilutions
Power Washer
Step Ladder (never know when you need it)
Snow Foam
Shampoo
2 buckets
Decent wash mitt
Wheel and Tyre Cleaner & brushes
Detailing Brushes
Good Drying towel or blower (leaf blower will do)
Clay Bar and Lube
Other Decon products such as Tardis & Iron X
Interior cleaners and dressings
Metal Polish
Glass cleaner
AIO polish
Good supply of microfibres and Applicators
Wheel sealant
A Selection of LSP's (I have a selection of different ones at different prices and charge a little extra if the customer wants something above the standard LSP on offer)

For more basic services just remove relevant stages and products, i'm sure there's a few things I missed but I don't have my collection to hand.



raitkens83 said:


> Your asking if you should become a detailer but also asking what people are using. I think that answers your question that your not ready to be a detailer.


I agree with what raitkens said, I think that you should get more experience and learn more about detailing before taking the plunge and doing it as a career, maybe do your own car and friends and families cars first and experiment with scrap panels to see what works best for you. I can do paint correction but I don't feel that i'm ready yet to offer it as a service.


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## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

Half the problem is that since people read in the paper about 5 and 7 grand car washes the unemployed think how hard can it be to wash a car? 

When I started out 4 years ago I didn't have a clue to be honest and have learnt a lot sincen then but still don't know it all and am not sure I ever will as the game is forever going in different directions with chemicals and techniques. I'd say I started out at a decent time as Ive had year on year growth where people starting after me I've seen loads throw in the towel and not progress. 

People seem to think it's all out what you use but you can go and buy a £7k wax but if you don't know how to use it then you may as well just use a wash and wax shampoo! 

If you want to start up a business then I think you should do the easy work yourself when deciding what products to use as DW won't be there holding your hand when you get your first client.


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## David (Apr 6, 2006)

stephen2982 said:


> thanks for the information so far.
> 
> could i please have a typical product list that you guys have in your arsenal, from apc to lsp. i know products are an individual taste but just a quick run down of what you use on a daily basis.


you want to be a detailer....thats fine but you come on here asking what products people use? that to me shows a lack of understanding at what market you are aiming at.

I wont shoot you down, im not bothered what you do but i would start off doing low end valeting - thats where you'll get family cars that are the pits full of crap and really dirty - if you can handle doing a full interior valet on them, the job is (usually) easier on the nicer cars, most high end cars interiors are more plush, full leather etc and made of better materials and tend not to be abused as much

Looking in, you've joined DW this month, only made 10 posts and you are wanting people to spoon feed you information thats taken us years to compile for our own businesses

I'd go and look at the supporters on here, go to their website and look at their products, phone up autosmart/autoglym reps and see what they recommend as at the end of the day its their job to sell you what you need, not us!

I think people automatically assume our work is easy and anyone can pick it up and do it, thats why so many valeting businesses are up for sale - they can't hack it day in day out


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## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

My advice would be think about cleaning something else  there are so many car cleaning companies out there it's crazy. If you look on eBay dozens of setups are sold every month. People try and fail because there isn't enough work out there for everyone. Plus people think it's going to be really easy work when it isn't.


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## stephen2982 (Jul 7, 2011)

i never said i wanted to be a detailer, i asked what the difference was, because i'm not the only 1 to ever ask it, it's confusing for the customers out there to pick one from the other. if i was to start a mobile business it would be as just a valeter because i said earlier in my posts, i don't have the experience to be a successful detailer in my opinion, just like more valeters out there.


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## Spirit Detailing (Mar 29, 2007)

If you don't have experience doing valet work professionally, then I would say don't set yourself up as an indie yet. You're going to be learning both the work and back-office side of it. I don't just mean balancing your books either. You need to know how to deal with other people in the trade (dealers, mechanics, garages, suppliers, etc). Its a lot to learn from the outset.

Practice, practice, practice. Get a car interior done very thoroughly and very quickly. You need to know different ways to tackle stains (milk, coffee, oils, and everything that kids or elderly people do in a car!!) I think I've seen it all at this stage.  

Good equipment is hugely important, but its never as important as the person using it. I still use a cheap vac that I got in Lidl and it hasn't let me down. I used to have one that cost 500 smackers, but it broke down and repairs were costing more than the Lidl machine. 4 years on and the cheap one is a workhorse and paid for itself many times over!! Mind you, my extractors and Steam cleaners are pretty expensive pieces of kit! 

But there are many ways to skin a cat. You can do a very good job with basic materials and tools but you need to understand how they work on the various types of surfaces on a car. Example, All Purpose Cleaner is good for many types of dirt, but not necessarily good for any type of surface. 

Get good at valeting, then start part-time. Car owners will be watching you and if you look like you don't know what you are doing, you won't hear from them again. Look confident and do a good job and you will be hearing from their friends for more work. Maybe you could look at attending a training course with a reputable company. I've heard mixed reports about them though, so get personal recommendations before you commit. Don't feel you have to stick with any one brand either. No single company does everything that I want for car care products. 

But if you want my personal advice, don't do it full time. There are easier ways to make a few bob...!


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## stephen2982 (Jul 7, 2011)

part time is my goal, then i can assess if it's worth it long term.


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## Chufster (Nov 21, 2010)

Do you valet your own car?

If so which products, steps and techniques do you use? 

How could you alter your personal methods to be quicker and more productive without massively sacrificing quality for commercial purposes?

If you do valet your own car then 80% of your questions should be there for you to work out. (ie switch boutique product X for Trade product Y) If you don't valet your own car and don't know the processes or products, how can you expect to charge customers?


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## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

> i never said i wanted to be a detailer, i asked what the difference was, because i'm not the only 1 to ever ask it, it's confusing for the customers out there to pick one from the other. if i was to start a mobile business it would be as just a valeter because i said earlier in my posts, i don't have the experience to be a successful detailer in my opinion, just like more valeters out there.


It's such a grey area - initially a 'fully detailed car' meant that aside from all the normal things you'd do in a 'valet' you also clayed, machine polished and waxed/sealed the paintwork.

But even that is confusing because not all 'full valets' have an all-in-one type product at the end as the LSP. You could quite easily do a 'full valet' and use a wax at the end - or even extra gloss protection!

Then it became a bit more diluted with things like 'interior detail' - which imo shouldn't be any different to an 'interior valet' as it basically means cleaning the interior. So you can't really do a half job and say "it's ok, it's only a valet".

I would forget the terminology to be honest. People just want their car cleaned at the end of the day. So offer a complete clean that focues on cleaning the the whole car from top to bottom, inside and out. With a good going over with a decent all-in-one polish/wax like Radiant Wax (trade version of SRP). Don't waste time competing on price with the wash and vac people - your unique selling point over them is washing and vacing is OK, but every now and again your car needs a professional deep clean.

When you get handy with a machine polisher you can start to advertise 'paintwork renovation' or 'paintwork resurfacing' ect as an additional ad-on to your standard full clean.

With regards to clay, imo if the paintwork is still covered in cr*p after you've cleaned it, then you should use clay/fallout remover (fallout remover recommended) to remove these contaminents. Again it's about making the car fully clean, and giving you that edge over the wash and vac guys who wouldn't be removing the tree sap, tar etc.

Lastly I'd say that you want to be charging extra for protection systems, like a lot of companies do in various cleaning industries, for instance you could say on top of your standard deep clean it's £xxx more to have your paintwork, glass and carpets/upholstery protected. You can use for example any good durable sealent, rainx or similair and scotch guard.

On pricing, I'd recommend all service as £xx small car £xx medium car £xx large car - say prices are guide only as you may need to charge more for cars with hanging dog hair interiors or loads of tar on the bodywork etc.

Anyway, hope that is of interest :thumb:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I would never even try and be a detailer as my job.... hats off to the pros on here and the ones that stick through the bad winter months, 'cause it isn't easy...

:thumb:


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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

I agree with showshine, i too know how hard it, restless nights. Youve got to be competative and the only way you make money valeting is banging em out, end of the day you have to be realistic. Sometimes you can be diluded thinking your going to have constant work, valeting/detailing lovely cars day to day


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## Big Buffer (Jan 1, 2011)

James B said:


> Detailing is the top end of valeting, simple as that really.
> 
> You need valeting experience behind you really before you would be in a position to offer competitive professional detailing.
> 
> Thats just my opinion of course, some will no doubt disagree.


He is dead right and all. When you think you know everything about just cleaning a car you will learn something else.

Take your time and get used to hand polishing as a guess then move to polishing with DA with a soft finishing pad.

Finding some1 close who knows their way around with correction and see if they will show you some techniques but dont rush and be patient to learn.


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## Chuffy (Mar 5, 2008)

anyone here work as or has been a valeter for a main dealer?


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## David (Apr 6, 2006)

Chuffy said:


> anyone here work as or has been a valeter for a main dealer?


worked on behalf of them

never again!


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

Reading the op, there is a lot more to do than that....

You need to see the market in your area, the competition (your area could be saturated with valeters), then will you have a van ? generator ? water tank ? insurance ? the list goes on.....

The first two points I would say are the most important, is there a market ? if there is not, then you might have to go outwidth your area to get work, secondly, local competition, if they re charging very low prices because there are soo many, you then need to decide is it a viable business.....

Also dont know what area you live, but think of the weather, I know from experience as i think many of the Scottish mobile detailers/valeters would agree, over the last couple of years consider 4 months of the year as HARD times, if the weather is not on your side then its game over ! and by the looks of it, this year is not getting any better !

Also look into your local Environment Protection Agency and see what their policies are regarding waste water, again might not be a viable business option !

I think its very easy to say "I want to clean cars", but the reality of what you need to do is a lot harder, this is not a 9-5 job, this is a from the minute you wake up until you go to sleep kind of job !


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## David (Apr 6, 2006)

Prism Detailing said:


> Reading the op, there is a lot more to do than that....
> 
> You need to see the market in your area, the competition (your area could be saturated with valeters), then will you have a van ? generator ? water tank ? insurance ? the list goes on.....
> 
> ...


Robert is correct in what he says, apart from the last part in my experience - i have never had to work past 6pm since i started - because thats what i choose to do, i want a life and if folk hear i work late - customers assume i don't mind doing it after they've finished their work etc.

another harsh winter ahead apparently so we will see, its tough at the moment...has been for a lot of folk over the last year, i couldn't imagine starting from scratch now


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## stephen2982 (Jul 7, 2011)

Prism Detailing said:


> Reading the op, there is a lot more to do than that....
> 
> You need to see the market in your area, the competition (your area could be saturated with valeters), then will you have a van ? generator ? water tank ? insurance ? the list goes on.....
> 
> ...


i take it that is for people working from a building/lock up? not for mobile valeters?


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

stephen2982 said:


> i take it that is for people working from a building/lock up? not for mobile valeters?


Nope this is for everyone in the trade :tumbleweed:


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## stephen2982 (Jul 7, 2011)

ooh, i always assumed that chemicals from a reputable company were safe for the environment anyway.

also the environmental protection agency is a scottish based company, i'm in north yorkshire.


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## titanx (May 4, 2009)

I,am based in scarborough and i can tell you it is very saturated with mobile valeters/ luckily my work is spread between trade/customers. It seems every man and his dog is turning to valeting nowadays. The best advice i can give you is check your area for viability and most importantly who is doing what and at what price (hope that makes sense) If you do a good job every time (even when pushed for time) then things will eventually fall into place, remember reputation is everything in this game.
Good luck :thumb:


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