# Best pre-wash, which is not snow-foam



## xSullx (Oct 18, 2016)

Hi,

I'm planning to add pre-wash to my wash routine, but I only have a basic Kärcher powerwasher and I'm not planning to buy a foam cannon for it.

SO my question would be, what would be the best pre-wash product to use without a foam cannon. I woudl buy one of these bottles/containers, which can be pumped for pressure and sprayed on.

I've read a lot of good things about Bilt Hamber Auto Wash, are there any alternatives I should consider?


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

I use valet pro citrus pre wash,works fine for me 

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## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

*Valet Pro Citrus Pre-wash*

Valet Pro Citrus Pre-wash

Cheap, effective, wax and sealant safe

Can be mixed at different dilutions for different applications

I even use a 1:20 dilution for interior cleaning as it doesnt remove dressings or coatings previously applied.


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## garage_dweller (Apr 10, 2018)

I use Koche Chemie Green Star, it always amazes me how clean it leaves the car


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## LostVulpine (Jan 28, 2017)

Another vote for Koch Chemie Green Star from me!


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## neilmcl (Mar 26, 2010)

Koch Chemie GS but BH Autofoam is very effective when used as a pre-wash spray rather than a foam.


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## Berylburton (Sep 14, 2013)

xSullx said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm planning to add pre-wash to my wash routine, but I only have a basic Kärcher powerwasher and I'm not planning to buy a foam cannon for it.
> 
> ...


You can use Bilt Hamber snow foam at 4-5% dilution in a spray bottle, that is excellent. ValetPro Citrus pre wash is also good in a spray.


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## WristyManchego (Sep 9, 2018)

LostVulpine said:


> Another vote for Koch Chemie Green Star from me!





garage_dweller said:


> I use Koche Chemie Green Star, it always amazes me how clean it leaves the car


What dilution bros?


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## garage_dweller (Apr 10, 2018)

I usually use 1:10, don't let it dwell on plastics though as it can stain some. Cuased staining to my windscreen surroung that's a kind of rubberised plastic although it came up clean with a srub


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## Yellow Dave (Apr 5, 2011)

Isn't koch chemicals green star an all purpose cleaner so not wax safe? More along the lines of bilt hamber surfed HD rather than auto wash?


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## LostVulpine (Jan 28, 2017)

WristyManchego said:


> What dilution bros?


The bottle recommends 1:5 to 1:30 for exterior use, my go to at the moment is 1:20


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## xSullx (Oct 18, 2016)

Is Koch Chemie Green Star coating or wa safe?
I've remember hearing also lots of positives about it, but also some people doubting if it's safe for coatings as it's quite a strong cleaner.

I presume everything is down to rations though?


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## Gixxer6 (Apr 5, 2014)

xSullx said:


> Is Koch Chemie Green Star coating or wa safe?
> I've remember hearing also lots of positives about it, but also some people doubting if it's safe for coatings as it's quite a strong cleaner.
> 
> I presume everything is down to rations though?


From a GS review: "I've been speaking with Koch chemie and they said anything above 1:6 should be lsp safe. Bare in mind though many waxes and sealants vary. I'll be trying 1:15 next also "

Post # 10 from this thread: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=388060


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## LostVulpine (Jan 28, 2017)

I can't comment on how it does with waxes as I Use Optimum Spray Wax as a drying aid so I'm always pretty topped up . . .


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## nbray67 (Mar 22, 2012)

Nearly 4yrs on from this review and I'm still impressed with PM TFR diluted at 20:1 to be LSP safe.

The dilution is that good with exceptional cleaning properties that I still have 15ltrs at least left from the original 25ltr drum from 2015.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=354310


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## TonyHill (Jul 28, 2015)

Berylburton said:


> You can use Bilt Hamber snow foam at 4-5% dilution in a spray bottle, that is excellent. ValetPro Citrus pre wash is also good in a spray.


In a 1.5ltr pump spray bottle, how much BH snow foam solution would I need for a 5% dilution.....maths never was my strong point lol? :thumb:


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## macca666 (Mar 30, 2010)

TonyHill said:


> In a 1.5ltr pump spray bottle, how much BH snow foam solution would I need for a 5% dilution.....maths never was my strong point lol? :thumb:


Somebody may come along to correct me but 5% should be 75ml so 1425ml of water to 75 ml if BH should give 5% ratio.


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## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

macca666 said:


> Somebody may come along to correct me but 5% should be 75ml so 1425ml of water to 75 ml if BH should give 5% ratio.


Yup, that would be my working out when I'm filling up, unless you want be absolutely spot on, then 20:1 ratio would be 72ml


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## tomstephens89 (Jul 17, 2018)

Get yourself 5L of Bilt Hamber Surfex HD here: https://www.bilthamber.com/car-cleaning-and-degreasing/surfex-hd

And a pump sprayer like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spear-Jack...2&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=5L+PUMP+SPRAYER&psc=1

Dilute the Surfex with water, I generally use something around 10% for the exterior and spray all over the car and leave to dwell for 5 minutes.

Rinse off under pressure.

Done.

Surfex is probably the best Degreaser/APC there is, its also cheap as chips and can be diluted as low as 1% whilst still remaining active.

I tend to do a double pre wash, all over with a snow foam cannon using BH auto-foam, rinse off, then follow by using 10% surfex HD on all lower parts of the car using a pump sprayer.

10% is likeley overkill so 5% is probably a better number.

I would go 5% surfex sprayed onto the dry and dirty car, leave for 5 mins then rinse.


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## Kipeni (Nov 6, 2018)

tomstephens89 said:


> Get yourself 5L of Bilt Hamber Surfex HD here: https://www.bilthamber.com/car-cleaning-and-degreasing/surfex-hd
> 
> And a pump sprayer like this:
> 
> ...


Will surfex HD strip lsp?

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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Auto foam is actually better than Surfex when it comes to removing general road grime. I'd purchase 5L of auto for around £15-£17 and be done with it. 

80ml in 1920ml of water through a pump sprayer with some warm water gives exceptional cleaning power and at this 4% ratio it's LSP safe.

That said I need to try out GS at some point and do a comparison.

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## Kam09 (Apr 11, 2014)

nbray67 said:


> Nearly 4yrs on from this review and I'm still impressed with PM TFR diluted at 20:1 to be LSP safe.
> 
> The dilution is that good with exceptional cleaning properties that I still have 15ltrs at least left from the original 25ltr drum from 2015.
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=354310


Was your car protected beforehand for that review? Ignore that just seen you had 2 coats of tough coat on! Did you ever try it at the same ratio on a unprotected car?


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## tomstephens89 (Jul 17, 2018)

Brian1612 said:


> Auto foam is actually better than Surfex when it comes to removing general road grime. I'd purchase 5L of auto for around £15-£17 and be done with it.
> 
> 80ml in 1920ml of water through a pump sprayer with some warm water gives exceptional cleaning power and at this 4% ratio it's LSP safe.
> 
> ...


I agree, but only when it's shot out of a foam Lance on pressure washer. Otherwise I'd use SurfexHD 5% out of a pump sprayer.


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## nbray67 (Mar 22, 2012)

Kam09 said:


> Was your car protected beforehand for that review? Ignore that just seen you had 2 coats of tough coat on! Did you ever try it at the same ratio on a unprotected car?


Hi Kam09.

The only time it gets used on an unprotected car is when we first purchase a car, pre LSP.

These unprotected cars are always a whole lot cleaner before applying the PM TFR as they are bought from dealers and never come caked in road grime.

I can vouch though, over that 4yrs, PM TFR, when diluted over 9:1, has never stripped my applied LSP.

Will/does it degrade it over time? Quite possibly but I'd never know that as I wash and protect the paint with a quality QD/spray sealant quite often.

It cleans very well indeed, road grime, baked on bugs/bugs blood, bird poop, tree sap etc etc......

As with all products here on DW, it's horses for courses as some members love BH Autofoam over other pre-washes like PM TFR, whereas I wasn't a fan compared to PM TFR, so I sold it on.

It's worth a shout imo, approx £15-£16 x 5ltrs delivered via some sites and at upwards of 20:1 dilution, it'll last for some time. My preferred method of application is via a Hozelock pump sprayer as it's an absolute doddle.


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## Kam09 (Apr 11, 2014)

nbray67 said:


> Hi Kam09.
> 
> The only time it gets used on an unprotected car is when we first purchase a car, pre LSP.
> 
> ...


I have bh autofoam but I use that as a snow foam however I don't have a pre wash to use through winter.. I think all these pre washes and snow foams work well on protected cars however on unprotected cars it's a different story..


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