# Wet or Dry before Snow Foam ?



## Furkin

Been using this thing for a while now.
Whilst it is pretty good, it dosn't fetch off dry muck etc & every now & then I have to go over it with a brush.
As i'm now disabled I wanted to make it easier to wash the car - whilst I can still manage it.

Firstly: is it better to Wet the car before foaming - to soften muck & make it absorbent (although muck would absorb some water) ? 
Is it better to apply foam to a Dry car - for muck to absorb only soap ?

Secondly: I got my unit from Rachael (can't remember the model type/number). Are replacement 'connectors' (unit to PW brand) easy to get hold of - & reasonable ?
I currently borrow my neighbours Karchar PW, but will need to get my own at some point.

cheers folks


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## F1 CJE UK

Very good question, I had been debating that today.

Polished bliss sell the heads to fit arrange of different models


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## DMH-01

I tend to give the car a quick rinse with the PW which helps loosen up stubborn dirt/bugs etc. and then snow foam the car leaving this to dwell for around 10-15mins and then rinse off. I then follow this up with the 2BM. You could add some shampoo or APC into your snow foam mixture which would help shift the dirt and would save you using the 2BM.


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## John @ PB

We always rinse first: that way you dislodge as much surface grime, mud and brake dust etc as possible allowing the foam to work on the more deep-seated dirt. 

As said, we have replacement fittings for the PA foam lance.


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## The Cueball

some people go over the car just with the PW and water first.... 

Some just go straight to snow foam...

and both side will argue until the cows come home.....

I always go over my cars with the "dirt buster" lance first, one to remove as much dust etc as possible, and 2 because if your car is well protected, this is all you need sometimes...so doing it this way means I don't use or waste chemicals...

I also go over the wheels first for the same reasons...

There is no right or wrong way imo...just do whatever you want!

:thumb:


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## Bratwurst

You could PW rinse it first, then let it dry, then foam, that way you're doing both


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## MrPARR

Snowfoam for removing dirt is useless - A jet wash rinse does exactly the same thing - and doesnt need any fancy lance/foam. The only time I have seen my snowfoam drip any dirt is when I spray it on dry, if I pre rinse first it drops off as clean as it goes on, only making a massive mess of the floor.

The only good use I find for snowfoam is as a carrier. When I was doing my underside I mixed it with degreaser which made a massive differene to dwell time as the degreaser naturally wanted to drip off - I also mix it with my car shampoo and then wash straight afterwards as it feels far more slick and you can easier see where you have been.

In my eyes snow foam makes no impact on anything other than dust on its own, and then a rinse with just water would do the same.


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## Bratwurst

Got to disagree...


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## badman1972

John @ PB said:


> We always rinse first: that way you dislodge as much surface grime, mud and brake dust etc as possible allowing the foam to work on the more deep-seated dirt.
> 
> As said, we have replacement fittings for the PA foam lance.


That's how I do it ^^^^ always rinse first then foam.


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## stealthwolf

Depends on how dirty the car is. If minimal, SF when dry. If caked in mud etc, power rinse first.


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## Ninja59

MrPARR said:


> Snowfoam for removing dirt is useless - A jet wash rinse does exactly the same thing - and doesnt need any fancy lance/foam. The only time I have seen my snowfoam drip any dirt is when I spray it on dry, if I pre rinse first it drops off as clean as it goes on, only making a massive mess of the floor.
> 
> The only good use I find for snowfoam is as a carrier. When I was doing my underside I mixed it with degreaser which made a massive differene to dwell time as the degreaser naturally wanted to drip off - I also mix it with my car shampoo and then wash straight afterwards as it feels far more slick and you can easier see where you have been.
> 
> In my eyes snow foam makes no impact on anything other than dust on its own, and then a rinse with just water would do the same.


you need to get over that it only SOFTENS Major dirt it is not meant to remove the dirt completely.

using degreaser if you want to strip LSP is fine, but for maintenance washes idiotic.

further to this because the dwell of water wont be strong enough for pre rinse.

personally i now do both on a wet vehicle


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## Tips

I apply it to a dry car - if the car is particularly dusty I can see the benefits of snow foam after rinsing off.

If the car is dirty then I add a couple of squirts of megs hyper wash/britemax CleanMAX shampoo to add bite to the snowfoam solution and apply to a dry car.

Hope that helps.


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## -Ashley-

John @ PB said:


> We always rinse first: that way you dislodge as much surface grime, mud and brake dust etc as possible allowing the foam to work on the more deep-seated dirt.
> 
> As said, we have replacement fittings for the PA foam lance.


Nail . . . Head . . . Hit.

Although I prefer the use of a citrus pre-wash through a 5L pump sprayer, sure it's not as pretty as snow foam (oooooh look at the pretty bubbles) but it's much better in my opinion.


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## GJM

So Snowfoam does nothing that water can't, why are so much people buying it then.

Has anyone does a Water vs Snowfoam test to see the results.


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## Ninja59

GJM said:


> So Snowfoam does nothing that water can't, why are so much people buying it then.
> 
> Has anyone does a Water vs Snowfoam test to see the results.


water wont have a long enough dwell time and wont soften the dirt enough


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## bigmc

GJM said:


> So Snowfoam does nothing that water can't, why are so much people buying it then.
> 
> Has anyone does a Water vs Snowfoam test to see the results.


Marketting, iirc Jesse from Wolfs did a comparison a while ago. 
In any case it's designed to go on dry bodywork not wet, it was originally designed for trucks afaik.


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## Furkin

GJM said:


> So Snowfoam does nothing that water can't, why are so much people buying it then. Has anyone does a Water vs Snowfoam test to see the results.


I'm not a big beliver in buying gadgets and latest fads just for the sake of it. As in my OP I am now disabled & want to make life a little easier.

I used to enjoy washing the car & making it *****'n'span, as well as maintaining it etc.

Whilst I havn't done a scientific experiment I'm sure that the SF system works well enough.
When you clean the same car, of the same local gunge, time after time - you do get an idea of how things are in your own situation.

In my opinion, SN system is better than _not_ using it, and *any* improvement is worth having.


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## GJM

Ninja59 said:


> water wont have a long enough dwell time and wont soften the dirt enough


Exactly, was said in jest with regards to the comment about a jet wash rinse doing the same thing.


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## Ninja59

dont really see how your post was in jest in honesty.


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## GJM

Furkin said:


> I'm not a big beliver in buying gadgets and latest fads just for the sake of it. As in my OP I am now disabled & want to make life a little easier.
> 
> I used to enjoy washing the car & making it *****'n'span, as well as maintaining it etc.
> 
> Whilst I havn't done a scientific experiment I'm sure that the SF system works well enough.
> When you clean the same car, of the same local gunge, time after time - you do get an idea of how things are in your own situation.
> 
> In my opinion, SN system is better than _not_ using it, and *any* improvement is worth having.


Totally agree with you, it might not be perfect but it certainly helps and as others have said best to spray on dry car, that's what I find.

I often let it dwell on a dry car, the rinse, usually got enough left to foam again and rinse off.


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## Ninja59

the other aspect of foaming is who does this rinse-->SF-->rinse-->SF-->2bm-->rinse with PW (DI)-->Rinse open hose.

How many refoam and then do a 2 BM?

i know this is my current full version.


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## GJM

Ninja59 said:


> dont really see how your post was in jest in honesty.


Because it was me the wrote it and I'm telling you, not everything in text is black and white.

Maybe the aid of a  might have indicated.

The comment in question:



MrPARR said:


> Snowfoam for removing dirt is useless - A jet wash rinse does exactly the same thing - and doesnt need any fancy lance/foam. The only time I have seen my snowfoam drip any dirt is when I spray it on dry, if I pre rinse first it drops off as clean as it goes on, only making a massive mess of the floor.
> 
> In my eyes snow foam makes no impact on anything other than dust on its own, and then a rinse with just water would do the same.


So tip all your foams down the drain now and bin that lance


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## LeadFarmer

I like to foam the car whilst dry, otherwise I find the foam just runs straight off.


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## OCDDetailer

Depends how dirty the car is. IMO if the car isn't really dirty there isn't really any need to snow foam. 

If the car is really dirty, IMO snow foam is a must. Its like soaking your dishes, the longer you leave it on the softer the dirt will become and should lift off easier, which in turn cuts the risk of hand washing the car moving dirt around the paint causing stratches and swirls.

I usually snow foam dry, because I find it sticks better. However, If i was detailing a really dirty car I would PW first then snow foam.


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## Ninja59

but is it then not quicker (excluding ONR) to just SF the car down than doing 2BM?


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## J3FVW

Always give it a quick blast with the Pw to loosen the dirt before I foam. As said before I do my wheels before foaming too but I guess everybody has their own routine


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## GJM

bigmc said:


> Marketting, iirc Jesse from Wolfs did a comparison a while ago.
> In any case it's designed to go on dry bodywork not wet, it was originally designed for trucks afaik.


The whole detailing game is one big marketing lark as are all industries.

I mean if I want a bog brush to scrub my arches I won't buy one from a detailing store 

Same with the inflated black baron pet dryers.

There are plenty references to Werkstat/Carlack and you don't have to look far to find marketers batting for either side.

Someone wont touch microfibres from Costco because they are hard!

However with the snow foam lance, I do think it's something worth having rather than not having.

As always product opinions are very different, Magifoam is the best thing since sliced bread, next man is let down by it, CG no touch another.

Plenty people use the likes of Megs Hyperwash but is it really any good?

Furkin what Foam are you using and have you tried a few different ones?


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## Furkin

GJM said:


> The whole detailing game is one big marketing lark as are all industries.
> I mean if I want a bog brush to scrub my arches I won't buy one from a detailing store  Same with the inflated black baron pet dryers.
> 
> There are plenty references to Werkstat/Carlack and you don't have to look far to find marketers batting for either side.
> 
> Someone wont touch microfibres from Costco because they are hard!
> 
> However with the snow foam lance, I do think it's something worth having rather than not having.
> 
> As always product opinions are very different, Magifoam is the best thing since sliced bread, next man is let down by it, CG no touch another.
> 
> Plenty people use the likes of Megs Hyperwash but is it really any good?
> 
> Furkin what Foam are you using and have you tried a few different ones?


I tend to agree with what you say. 
Although I expect any product to be as good as the rest in its class, I don't necessarily go for a 'Brand' any more. In most walks of life, there are products out there which are just as good - or better - at a fraction of the price, of the best. 
Don't get me wrong - I don't just go for cheap options 'because it's cheap'. It has to do the job at least as well as others. If it doesn't, then back to the branded ones.

For my car I'm currently using "Cherry Foam" that I bought from Rachael along with the lance. My Son brought me a gallon of cheaper stuff from some local store, that I use when washing my neighbours car (after all, I use his h.pipe, water & PW). I find the latter isn't quite so good as the former.

I'd be pleased to hear of alternative brands/prices/experiences from others.
cheers


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## Ninja59

you see i also would like to point out whilst some on here like thick shaving foam like SF it will only be the layer nearest the car actually doing the work the piece above it to all purposes is a waste. the reason i like Activo its just right for me, the downside with the Autofoam i find is it is soooo thin it does a good job but get the mixture wrong it goes off the car to quickly. 

Magifoam is useful and does a good job but the clear up after kinda ruins it for me sometimes. 

Hyperwash is a good product if you like the shaving foam effect and it has a good dilution ratio, but i dont see any improvement in its performance over the others IMO.


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## Spizz

So it seems the consences is split. Half put it on a dry car, the other half after jet washing the car.

I guess it come down to what works for you and the product you are using. Or you to find this out you could do a 50/50 on a car and see how it looks after jet washing both dry and wet sections and see if there is a difference.


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## Bratwurst

Or you could just snow foam twice and have it all


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## shaunwistow

Always on a dry car, I find the foam dwells longer giving me more time to do the badges etc. If my car was ever caked in dirt (never has been yet) then I would power wash this off first & then foam.


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## Shiny

MrPARR said:


> Snowfoam for removing dirt is useless - A jet wash rinse does exactly the same thing - and doesnt need any fancy lance/foam. The only time I have seen my snowfoam drip any dirt is when I spray it on dry, if I pre rinse first it drops off as clean as it goes on, only making a massive mess of the floor.
> 
> The only good use I find for snowfoam is as a carrier. When I was doing my underside I mixed it with degreaser which made a massive differene to dwell time as the degreaser naturally wanted to drip off - I also mix it with my car shampoo and then wash straight afterwards as it feels far more slick and you can easier see where you have been.
> 
> In my eyes snow foam makes no impact on anything other than dust on its own, and then a rinse with just water would do the same.





GJM said:


> So Snowfoam does nothing that water can't, why are so much people buying it then.
> 
> Has anyone does a Water vs Snowfoam test to see the results.


Oh hi there....:wave: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=241248


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## bigmc

Lloyd have you seen Jesse's thread? Results were polar opposite to yours.


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## svended

Rinse then foam. Tempted to try the other way which was talked about the other day. Rinse, foam, rinse, spray shampoo through lance bottle, agitate with wash mitt (rinsing wash mitt as you go), final rinse and then dry. Bypassing the whole two bucket thing. :thumb:


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## Shiny

bigmc said:


> Lloyd have you seen Jesse's thread? Results were polar opposite to yours.


I'm sure I have, have you got a link? Either way, my results were conclusive to me, it had a massive effect compared to just water.



svended said:


> Rinse then foam. Tempted to try the other way which was talked about the other day. Rinse, foam, rinse, spray shampoo through lance bottle, agitate with wash mitt (rinsing wash mitt as you go), final rinse and then dry. Bypassing the whole two bucket thing. :thumb:


Generally that is what I do, although I also have shampoo in my rinse bucket -

SF (dry) / rinse
Shampoo through sf lance 
Wash with one bucket / rinse


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## Guest

if the car is heavily soiled i rinse first,but most of the time i just go at i with the foam with a bit of g101


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## Tips

I get better dwell time/cleansing using Magifoam on a dry car.


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## Carshine

I have always been snowfoaming on a DRY car... If I PW the car first, the foam will just run straight off...


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## bmwman

always snow foam a dry car myself. Why? Because my car is well protected but is also washed on a weekly basis. I can get away with foam - dwell- pw- rinse- dry. If however you do not maintain the car weekly or have recently done some mileage i'd rinse with pw first to loosen major grime then foam.


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## PugIain

Dry,always have.


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## alan_mcc

Usually wet now. I pre-rinse the whole car before going near it with any chemicals. Mainly for the wheels but usually just do the whole car while I'm at it.


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## Sirmally2

Generally Dry for me...

I love my SF lance and my Foam. I find it works for me and will work much better when i get a new PW which has a little more oomph behind it and has a better flow rate.


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## luke997

Always PW rinse first - removes the larger dirt particles - and loads of them, after that the CG No Touch which cleans the car really well, not much left for the mitt.


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## [FIN]Dani

Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam on dry car.


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## RPB

I'm getting disillusioned with my SF and lance. BUT I feel my PW and technique are to blame and not the SF or the lance. I am using a very old Karcher PW and the SF lance from Elitecarcare and with Meguiars Hyperwash as the SF. I was advised to use 2 squirts of the SF in the bottle, this is out of the large Meguiars container with the hand pump screwed in it. I PW the car first and then SF it. As far as i can see the SF is thick enough and does cling to the car. My annoyance is that after I then PW the car, I do not see much, if any, dirt coming off the car that was there anyway, and so i really wonder why i am bothering???? If you see what I mean?
I just don't know if it needs to be any thicker or what. But something aint right as for how dirty my car was today I would have expected dirt to come off when I PW it.
So, your thoughts and comments please!


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## Bratwurst

Try an actual 'snowfoam'


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## Spizz

wee_green_mini said:


> Try an actual 'snowfoam'


Beat me to it


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## RPB

I am using what what a recommendation from PB as they use it all the time as a SF. So I was after some more info than just your replies! LOL
Gimme some more info on mix rates, etc please.


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## Spizz

RPB said:


> So I was after some more info than just your replies! LOL


Interesting as you did ask for thoughts and comments  Mine would be the same as the previous poster to use an actual "Snowfoam" if you are not currently getting the desired outcome using Meguires Hyperwash as a snowfoam.

I understand that Hyperwash is PB preference so maybe a quick PM or email to them may get you the ratios for this product you need quicker.

If that fails then there are a few other specialist brands you can try- Autobrite, CG, Valet Pro would be the top 3


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## RPB

Spizz - very true, I did indeed ask for thoughts and comments, LOL
I have been out marking my bottle for the 100ml of Hyperwash required. I don't think I have been using enough, but then again I did get some free Elite snow foam so may just try that first.
Thanks for the info.


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## Herefordquattro

i'm a hyperwash man too, mainly because i bought it with my lance from PB and i'm still getting through it 18 months later!
only use 2 pumps as advised by PB and get plenty of foam.

TBH it doesn't clean all that well but it's horses for courses really as to get it really clean with a snowfoam you need magifoam / no touch etc which are just foaming TFR that must strip protection by their very nature


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## RPB

Herefordquattro said:


> i'm a hyperwash man too, mainly because i bought it with my lance from PB and i'm still getting through it 18 months later!
> only use 2 pumps as advised by PB and get plenty of foam.
> 
> TBH it doesn't clean all that well but it's horses for courses really as to get it really clean with a snowfoam you need magifoam / no touch etc which are just foaming TFR that must strip protection by their very nature


That is what I was told, 2 pumps is enough. I do get the foam but I ain't at all impressed with any cleaning it does. It could be my PW though as I am using a very old (sat in shed for 10+ yrs unused) Karcher 411. The only Internet info I can find says it is 340 L/hr if it is correct. Dunno if that has anything to do with it


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## hoikey

Herefordquattro said:


> i'm a hyperwash man too, mainly because i bought it with my lance from PB and i'm still getting through it 18 months later!
> only use 2 pumps as advised by PB and get plenty of foam.
> 
> TBH it doesn't clean all that well but it's horses for courses really as to get it really clean with a snowfoam you need magifoam / no touch etc which are just foaming TFR that must strip protection by their very nature


Magifoam won't strip wax dude.


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## Bratwurst

My favourite is bilt hamber's one. It's a great cleaner. Maybe not as thick a foam as others, but itsnot the foam that does the cleaning.


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## Spizz

hoikey said:


> Magifoam won't strip wax dude.


Exactly.


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## Avanti

Herefordquattro said:


> i'm a hyperwash man too, mainly because i bought it with my lance from PB and i'm still getting through it 18 months later!
> only use 2 pumps as advised by PB and get plenty of foam.
> 
> TBH it doesn't clean all that well but it's horses for courses really as to get it really clean with a snowfoam you need magifoam / no touch etc which are just foaming TFR *that must strip protection by their very nature*


I'm surprised at how many wish to remain ignorant to how detergent cleaners work and why wax stripping is not as common place as some suggest.
Imagine cured cement it is hard and robust, but when it was 1st applied it was soft and wet.
Now then, the soiling (dirt) on the car got there because of the dirt and moisture, once the moisture evaporates then it remains stuck on the panels, unlike cement we can re-wet the soiling to make it easier to remove, this re-wetting is not instantaneous, and on the vertical panels gravity may have effect on the solution before the the mix gets time to work on the soiling, longer lasting foams can help in this situation (as does using a pre spray mix), the wax repels the water , so there is little reason for it to be stripped off whilst washing.


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## thedonji

wee_green_mini said:


> My favourite is bilt hamber's one. It's a great cleaner. Maybe not as thick a foam as others, but itsnot the foam that does the cleaning.


I agree it's the cleaning power that matters to me I use it all the time

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk


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## Herefordquattro

Avanti said:


> I'm surprised at how many wish to remain ignorant to how detergent cleaners work and why wax stripping is not as common place as some suggest.
> Imagine cured cement it is hard and robust, but when it was 1st applied it was soft and wet.
> Now then, the soiling (dirt) on the car got there because of the dirt and moisture, once the moisture evaporates then it remains stuck on the panels, unlike cement we can re-wet the soiling to make it easier to remove, this re-wetting is not instantaneous, and on the vertical panels gravity may have effect on the solution before the the mix gets time to work on the soiling, longer lasting foams can help in this situation (as does using a pre spray mix), the wax repels the water , so there is little reason for it to be stripped off whilst washing.


just chuck some stardrops in the mix as well then does the same job:devil:
not convinced with Magifoam et al, surely they must erode your protection while they're at work on the dirt same as a TFR?
could never use it anyway as the water run off on the road pools in the corner of our cul-de-sac due to sh1te council not doing and road repairs in the 9 years we've llived here


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## Avanti

Herefordquattro said:


> just chuck some stardrops in the mix as well then does the same job:devil:
> not convinced with Magifoam et al, *surely they must erode your protection while they're at work on the dirt same as a TFR?*
> could never use it anyway as the water run off on the road pools in the corner of our cul-de-sac due to sh1te council not doing and road repairs in the 9 years we've llived here


Why?
You need to disolve the wax and water is not going to disolve it, the wax will erode on the panels over the months, so regular washing or not, the wax will be away because of other reasons.


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## Mirror Finish Details

I always snow foam dry and let it dwell for a bit, then PW off then foam again and let that dwell while I do my buckets and the badges etc. I don't rinse the second snow foam off I just use it as extra lube on the paint with the shampoo in the wash bucket.

If the car is really dirty I will PW it again and snow it for the 3rd time. Snow foam is cheap as chips anyway so on a paying job 3 snow foams costs pennies really, plus customers love it.

Does it work, I think it does work but not work like a lot of people would like. Adding shampoo to the lance is really a waste of time.


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