# How to get rid of individual scratches?



## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Hi folks,

I've just bought a machine polisher and all the associated gubbins and have watched a bunch of videos online about machine polishing, but they mainly seem to focus on removing general wash swirls, rather than a particular scratch.

If I have a scratch on a panel (such as the one on my front wing, shown below) how should I go about removing it and the wash swirls? Should I polish the whole panel first, then once all the wash swirls are removed use a spot pad to focus on these scratches if they're still present? Or try to get rid of these first and then finish by going over the whole panel? or something else different entirely?

Here's the scratch I have on my front wing (from the previous owner, I hasten to add. Looks like they tried to pick off a tar spot or something).

Looking at the picture it doesn't look like it stands out much, but every time I walk up to the car it looks like there's a smudge on the front wing.

Thanks in advance!
Russ


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## Vimpyro53 (May 4, 2016)

You'd be quicker to wet sand then buff out! But good results can be made with a DA too!!


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

I dunno, the scratches aren't that deep - the sandpaper would probably just cause more scratches the same!


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## K777mk2 (Jun 30, 2016)

you could get that out by hand i am pretty sure, try something mild like Meguirs paint cleaner then polish up.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Well I have a brand new DAS 6 Pro in a box next to me, I want to use that and save my arms! Just wondered what the best approach would be, as I guess it wouldn't come out in the same pass as the other general lighter swirls?


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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

Working on a particular scratch is just working on a particular area - if you have a DA and you take out that scratch, you'll probably have a shiny bit on the door, then the rest of the door will need doing.

You can get a bit more precise with a rotary.

But as above, if you just want to work on that scratch and nothing else - use a MF pad (or towel wrapped around your fingers) and use the polish that you already have.

5 mins by hand will tell you whether it's possible, before you break out the DA.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

Polish the whole panel first and remove what swirls you had, then if you have a cutting spot pad and compound, remove as much as possible, don't worry if you can't remove all of it, then use a finishing polish. What pads and polish and car do you have?? If it was me then a quick sand using the right grades would be done. You could if you wanted after polishing use a glaze to cover up any marks left.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

I have orange and white Chemical Guys hex logic pads in 4" and 5" sizes, plus Megs #105 and #205.

The car is a VW CC.

I'm surprised people are saying to hand polish. I thought hand polishing did nothing/very little? Never had much luck with hand polishing, personally.

I think the best way should be to do the whole panel, then use the spot pad on the scratches if they're still visible. What do you think?


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

That right, spot pad cutting-105 then white pad -205, don't forget to prime your pad with 105 first. If the orange pad doesn't remove it, then step up to a MF cutting pad -105.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Great, thanks. I don't think the scratches are that deep though, so I should be OK. I think any type of sandpaper (however fine) would just cause more marring that was just as deep as the existing scratches, so I don't think they're bad enough to require wet sanding.


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## bradleymarky (Nov 29, 2013)

MBRuss said:


> Great, thanks. I don't think the scratches are that deep though, so I should be OK. I think any type of sandpaper (however fine) would just cause more marring that was just as deep as the existing scratches, so I don't think they're bad enough to require wet sanding.


Sandpaper/wet sanding is a whole different ball game, try the m205 with the orange pad first then move up if it doesnt sort it.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Exactly. I don't think I'd be comfortable with sandpaper, and the compound and polish ought to do the trick. Start with #205 on the orange pad, or did you mean #105? #105 is the compound IIRC.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

He means start off with 205 and orange pad first, the leased aggressive polish, but your car has hard paint, so the fine micro abrasive would break down to fast to remove the scratch if you used a orange pad, but you can give ago if you want.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Ok, well I have a paint thickness gauge, so can always start out with that combo and move up to orange and #105 once I know it's safe/necessary.

What do I do with the original pad that I used in the meantime? Wash it out so I can maybe use it again during the session if needed, or leave it and try to spritz it later or something?


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## Leebo310 (Sep 30, 2013)

chongo said:


> Polish the whole panel first and remove what swirls you had, then if you have a cutting spot pad and compound, remove as much as possible, don't worry if you can't remove all of it, then use a finishing polish.


I actually work the opposite way. I'll go at the scratch first using a spot pad (usually a mf cutting one) and remove as much as I feel is safe. I then go over the whole panel with a bigger finishing pad and polish/glaze combination depending on time to then bring the rest of the finish up.
The reason I do the polishing step of the whole panel second is that in then also removes any micromarring that may have been left over from the more aggressive combination used on the actual scratch.

It's effectively the same end result though, just means I only have two polishing steps rather than the three mentioned above.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

It's hardly a 3 step as you are only refining the haze left from the cutting spot pad, and if you polish the panel first you may fine some other marks that need a spot repair.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks Leebo. Though I'll probably have to use the compound on the whole panel anyway, as I'll be removing general marring and swirl marks at the same time. As such, I didn't want to get the scratch out then end up going across that area again with compound and taking off extra paint unnecessarily.

If that was the only scratch that needed polishing out then that's probably the technique I'd use though.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

MBRuss said:


> Thanks Leebo. Though I'll probably have to use the compound on the whole panel anyway, as I'll be removing general marring and swirl marks at the same time. As such, I didn't want to get the scratch out then end up going across that area again with compound and taking off extra paint unnecessarily.
> 
> If that was the only scratch that needed polishing out then that's probably the technique I'd use though.


Hi mate:wave: I have just removed 4 scratches by wet sanding, 2000,2500, then 3in MF cutting pad and D300, followed by scholl s40 on a yellow Rupes polishing pad, just give it ago and you will remove it:thumb: just look up wet sanding car panel on YouTube, there are lots of good ones you can watch.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Were those deep scratches though? I don't think the scratches I have are that deep. Maybe not my deeper than the marring that the sandpaper would cause.

Perhaps I should get some MF pads though?


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

MBRuss said:


> Were those deep scratches though? I don't think the scratches I have are that deep. Maybe not my deeper than the marring that the sandpaper would cause.
> 
> Perhaps I should get some MF pads though?


I didn't say deep scratches, I said scratches, and sanding doesn't cause marring.
Like I said before, it is easy to wet sand random scratches, for your scratches I would start at 2500 and see if that removes them, if not change to 2000, then 2500. Get some MF cutting pads, always good to have.:thumb:


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Well sure sandpaper causes marring, else you'd use it as your last step before applying your LSP. What happens if you drag that sandpaper over a perfectly polished panel?

The scratches I have really aren't deep at all. It would surprise me that you would use sandpaper on them rather than just compound or polish.

That said, I'll certainly look up some videos on YouTube. Maybe I'm not thinking correctly about wet sanding and perhaps it's less aggressive than I'm thinking.


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## Leebo310 (Sep 30, 2013)

MBRuss said:


> Well sure sandpaper causes marring, else you'd use it as your last step before applying your LSP. What happens if you drag that sandpaper over a perfectly polished panel?
> 
> The scratches I have really aren't deep at all. It would surprise me that you would use sandpaper on them rather than just compound or polish.
> 
> That said, I'll certainly look up some videos on YouTube. Maybe I'm not thinking correctly about wet sanding and perhaps it's less aggressive than I'm thinking.


If they're not that deep mate, stick to your original plan and just try and sort them with polish first. 
Everyone has their own preferred methods but I'd agree with you and wouldn't jump straight to wet sanding for shallow scratches, especially on a daily driver.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

MBRuss said:


> Well sure sandpaper causes marring, else you'd use it as your last step before applying your LSP. What happens if you drag that sandpaper over a perfectly polished panel?
> 
> The scratches I have really aren't deep at all. It would surprise me that you would use sandpaper on them rather than just compound or polish.
> 
> That said, I'll certainly look up some videos on YouTube. Maybe I'm not thinking correctly about wet sanding and perhaps it's less aggressive than I'm thinking.


I don't know we're you get this info on wet sanding, but it seems you don't understand what it is used for:wall: I know when to compound and when to wet sand a scratch out, but you go ahead and compound it out then refine the finish:thumb: sand paper does not cause marring and why would you want to drag a pice of sand paper over a perfectly polished panel for


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## JB052 (Mar 22, 2008)

I think the term sandpaper gives the wrong impression and makes me shudder when I read it. We are talking very fine wet & dry paper big difference.

Happy to use wet and dry to remove blemishes, but would never consider sandpaper for anything other than wood.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

chongo said:


> I don't know we're you get this info on wet sanding, but it seems you don't understand what it is used for:wall: I know when to compound and when to wet sand a scratch out, but you go ahead and compound it out then refine the finish:thumb: sand paper does not cause marring and why would you want to drag a pice of sand paper over a perfectly polished panel for


You wouldn't drag it over a perfectly polished panel - that's my point. Doing so would mar the finish - hence me saying that sandpaper causes marring. Hell, even compound causes its own marring, which is why you use a polish to refine the finish afterwards.

Or perhaps you just wet sand your paint then leave it? 

If wet & dry doesn't cause marring though, then why not drag it over your perfectly polished paint? It won't mar, after all...


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

JB052 said:


> I think the term sandpaper gives the wrong impression and makes me shudder when I read it. We are talking very fine wet & dry paper big difference.
> 
> Happy to use wet and dry to remove blemishes, but would never consider sandpaper for anything other than wood.


Sure, but after wet sanding the finish isn't a perfect gloss that you'd wax over, right? It has micro marring, so you refine it with a compound, and then use a polish to refine further, giving you a glossy finish. You work your way down the stages, reducing the level of marring each time. Either that, or I've wasted a load of money on all these products and a DA, when really I should've just bought a pack of wet & dry and just waxed over the top once I finished...

If I have a scratch that isn't any deeper than the marring caused by sanding the paint then it's presumably pointless to wet sand it. I'd just be adding more micro marring. I might as well start on the next step and compound it, then polish it. No?


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

I just Googled how to wet sand your paint. First thread I came across has the below comment from mike Phillips.

"Lots of people get caught up in the talk about removing the orange peel out of their factory paint jobs and what they don't usually understand is that the factory paint was baked on using high temperatures and is typically on the thin side, this makes it difficult and risky to sand and buff. It's always easy to sand paint, (that's putting sanding marks or scratches into the paint), the tricky part is getting the sanding marks out of the paint."

So even Mike Phillips thinks it mars the finish, unless people don't consider sanding marks or scratches to be marring?


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

Am sorry mate but you are talking a load off.... You just don't understand anything at all, you go a head and do what you want, because you ain't wasting my time anymore, bye.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Sorry, I didn't realise you were going to throw your toys out of your pram if I didn't do exactly as you said.

And of course I'm going to do what I want. I'm certainly not going to listen to somebody that throws an illiterate tantrum, just because somebody has a different point of view to them.

I'm not even claiming to know everything here, I'm trying to learn - but rather than explain your points you just use silly emojis and tell me I don't understand anything.

You've still not explained how an abrasive like wet & dry sandpaper supposedly doesn't mar the paint. I'm all ears if you can prove your point on that one, but being that it's an abrasive more aggressive than most compounds, I know that it mars the paint. Sure, it can be used to remove scratches, I get that, but being such an aggressive abrasive it will introduce it's own marring, in the same way that many compounds can. As such, the scratches you're trying to remove need to be worse than the marring that the sandpaper would introduce, else you're just going to be making things worse.

Still, as you're no longer "wasting your time" we'll just leave it there and agree to disagree.

If anybody else would like to explain where I'm going wrong with my impressions of wet sanding then I'm open to re-education on the subject and by no means claiming I know it all (or even much) about it. Just please don't be offended if I question your explanation, it's how I learn.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

MBRuss said:


> Sorry, I didn't realise you were going to throw your toys out of your pram if I didn't do exactly as you said.
> 
> And of course I'm going to do what I want. I'm certainly not going to listen to somebody that throws an illiterate tantrum, just because somebody has a different point of view to them.
> 
> ...


Listen my friend, your asking for help, and when you are given an suggestion on how to remove something from your paint, you should take it in and the end of the day it's up to you what you do with any feed back you get, but to say I have thrown my toys out of the pram is so funny it makes me chuckle:lol: by the way, what is marring :wave:


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Thought you weren't wasting your time?!

Just because I ask for help doesn't mean I'm not allowed to question what I'm told. How else can I learn if I don't ask? It's you who then decided to have a hissy fit about me asking questions. If you explained yourself then I'd learn. Instead you take the "do what I say without question" approach and then storm off.

If you want to know what marring is, go wet sand your paint. That dull finish you're left with, that's marring, whether you want to admit it or not.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

MBRuss said:


> Thought you weren't wasting your time?!
> 
> Just because I ask for help doesn't mean I'm not allowed to question what I'm told. How else can I learn if I don't ask? It's you who then decided to have a hissy fit about me asking questions. If you explained yourself then I'd learn. Instead you take the "do what I say without question" approach and then storm off.
> 
> If you want to know what marring is, go wet sand your paint. That dull finish you're left with, that's marring, whether you want to admit it or not.


:lol::lol::lol::lol: the dull finish you are left with is called sanding Haze, not marring:wall: and I have wet sanded many cars to know what am talking about, and polished to a high finish for some top shows, yes you asked for help and you got it, but it is the way you ask questions" about what you have been told, by this time by now you could of sorted it out by now " that's if you have already done it" so am I wasting my time well now am not, because if you decide to carry on with this, then that's ok with me.:wave:


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

:wall:Really? You don't understand that sanding haze is a form of paint marring?

And you think I don't know what I'm talking about?!

Ok, well you swan off in your usual "I'm taking my ball and going home" fashion, and I'll just get help from members who don't get offended by honest questions, or "the way I ask them".

Didn't realise you were so sensitive, petal.

Bye bye! :wave:


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

MBRuss said:


> :wall:Really? You don't understand that sanding haze is a form of paint marring?
> 
> And you think I don't know what I'm talking about?!
> 
> ...


:wave::wave::wave: you are one in a million my chuck, let's just say, ok you are right! And am wrong, er not and yes am very sensitive, you made me cry all day long now go and play with your ball honey :lol::lol:


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

I thought you were leaving?! :lol::lol::lol:

It's ok, I know I'm right. Unless Mike Phillips is also wrong, but I trust what he and others say over what you say.

How about you put up or shut up? Go and rub wet & dry sandpaper all over your car. If it doesn't cause marring like you say then you won't have any problem with doing this.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

MBRuss said:


> I thought you were leaving?! :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> It's ok, I know I'm right. Unless Mike Phillips is also wrong, but I trust what he and others say over what you say.
> 
> How about you put up or shut up? Go and rub wet & dry sandpaper all over your car. If it doesn't cause marring like you say then you won't have any problem with doing this.


Ok boy, if you want me to put up then that is not a problem,  I have served my country for 22 years as a pro, and I have met lots of  like you that haven't got a clue what to do, just going around and pretending they know everything till I get them, take them around the corner and kick the  out of them till they understand respect, so boy what is it then we had one guy on here before like you, and now he has disappeared, because he was a ****y like you, so carry on if you want with your little boy comments :wave::wave:


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Threats of violence via the internet? We have a hard man here! :lol::lol::lol:. So you're going to take me around the corner and physically assault me because I disagree with your opinion on something?! Well aren't you mature!

And you've "served your country" as a detailer?! Hahaha, what planet are you on?!

I've been here three years longer than you, so I'm not going to ve disappearing any time soon, just because you cry like a baby and start making internet threats like a 12 year old every time somebody disagrees with you.

Now grow up and sod off. I thought you were done wasting your time, yet you just can't leave this thread alone, can you?!

:wave: Bye bye hard man.


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## rob267 (Nov 27, 2015)

All i want to say is chongo is a very well respected and knowledgeable member so you could do worst than taking his advice. Take a look a his posts mate. He aint no newbie. 

I am not in anyway connected with chongo just saying what i think. 

If it was me i would use m105 on a spot pad first then assess then correct the whole door. Hope you get it sorted and lets all chill out.😀😀😀


Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

rob267 said:


> All i want to say is chongo is a very well respected and knowledgeable member so you could do worst than taking his advice. Take a look a his posts mate. He aint no newbie.
> 
> I am not in anyway connected with chongo just saying what i think.
> 
> ...


Hi Rob,

The thing is, I'm not saying that he's not knowledgeable, nor that I know everything. In fact, it's exactly the opposite. I'm coming here for advice.

I agree that scratches can be removed by wet sanding, I know that. However, I disagree that very light scratches are best tackled by wet sanding. And I think the scratches I have are too light for wet sanding to be the correct course of corrective action.

That said, I may be wrong. I've never wet sanded a car. Therefore, I expressed my opinion that this was the wrong action to be taken for the scratches I have, and explained why I thought this.

But rather than explain to me why scratches as light as mine could be tackled with wet & dry, instead Congo has just got all ****y, argued the toss about the meaning of "marring" and then threatened to assault me because I disagree with his opinion on what constitutes marring.

Quite why you then chose to like his post with threats of assault, I'll never know. Nor quite why threats of violence were even called for or tolerated on a forum designed for sharing information.

Regardless of how respected he might be, he seems like a moron to me, throwing emtpy threats around on the internet because somebody disagrees with him on a trivial subject. Quite how anyone thinks that's acceptable is beyond me. He could be the oracle of detailing, but if he can't hold a basic discussion without threats and insults then what good is he on a forum based on discussion?

I've been on here three years longer than Chongo, so have been around here long enough, albeit lurking more than posting. Until now everyone has always been helpful and happy to offer a helpful suggestion or opinion without taking any personal insult on whether I choose to take their advice or not. After all, many options differ on each subject, so I can't adopt everyone's suggestions.

Quite why I should offer an aggressive moron any respect just because he's sanded and buffed a few cars in his time is beyond me. "Served my country", hah! This isn't Iraq!

Anyway, as you say, I don't wish for any further arguments on the topic. Chongo says he doesn't want to waste any more of his time with me, so I suggest he stops posting in this thread and takes his internet threats elsewhere.

In the meantime, if somebody can tell me a legitimate reason why wet sanding might still be the best thing for my very light scratches, then I'm all ears. I'm genuinely here to learn, but please don't get offended if I question things. As I've said before, asking questions is how I learn, so I can understand the reasons for doing things.


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## rob267 (Nov 27, 2015)

Yes i do agree. Threats belong else where. 
I think it is all got blown out of proportion.

I aint entirely sure about wet sanding but what i think is being suggested is it will be quicker to wet sand and you will be able to focus more on the scratches than the surrounding area if wet sanded. 
You will then have a haze or flat look to the paint which will then compound out easily and quickly. 







Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks Rob, I appreciate your help.

It's something I may consider, but my concern is that the scratches I have are very light, and that the haze created from wet sanding may be just as deep or even deeper than the scratches themselves.

Have I perhaps got that wrong though? I mean, there must be a point where the scratches are considered too shallow to wet sand, or do some people wet sand micromarring from poor wash technique even?

It just seems a very aggressive step to take for such light scratches. As I say though, I've never done it, so I could be entirely wrong about that, which is why I'm asking.

Thanks again.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

MBRuss said:


> Threats of violence via the internet? We have a hard man here! :lol::lol::lol:. So you're going to take me around the corner and physically assault me because I disagree with your opinion on something?! Well aren't you mature!
> 
> And you've "served your country" as a detailer?! Hahaha, what planet are you on?!
> 
> ...


Have you stopped crying yet 22 years army it was you who said are you going to put up, not me, so stop crying to other peeps about a so called threat I made to you, because I did not mention you at all, your like a little child that has lost his little teddy, mummy, mummy he shouted at me! Grow some b....:lol: :wave::wave::wave:


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

MBRuss said:


> Thanks Rob, I appreciate your help.
> 
> It's something I may consider, but my concern is that the scratches I have are very light, and that the haze created from wet sanding may be just as deep or even deeper than the scratches themselves.
> 
> ...


You are a joke:lol:


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## A&J (Mar 4, 2015)

2/3rd of posts here were really not needed

@MBRuss

Ive had my ups and downs with Chongo but he is really just a helpfull guy full of knowledge and experience. The thing I like about him is that sometimes he doesnt give you a straight answer but still gives you enough information for you to carry on from there and make your research on you own. He may be a hothead and a stubburn fella but so are you apparantly. 

You wanted advice and you got it. The advice is always the same, start with the least aggressive polish and pad and move on from there. Wet sanding is the final aggressive option. By now you could have done that already instead of arguing for the entire week.

You say wet sanding causess marring. In a way it does, it causes sanding marks. 
Would the sanding marks be deeper than the scratch you have. No they wouldnt unless you sanded with 120grit sandpaper. In detailing the most commonly used sandpaper is 1500, 2000, 2500 and 3000grit. 2500 and 3000grit scratches are so fine you can remove them by hand. Trust me, ive done it.
As you proparbly know wet sanding is used for leveling paint and for faster removal of deep scratches (you can compound it 10 times instead of sanding for all I care). Of course you have to refine those sanding marks with a coumpound and polish. There is no other way and you can not just wax after sanding. That is stupid :wall: 
But I dont know if YOU know this but polishing is also a form of wet sanding. Compounds also leave behind marring. Why do they do that, because it cuts into the paint and levels it, but those scratches are so deep that the naked eye can see them in the form of so called holograms. And you have to refine them further with a less aggressive polish. And that polish also probarbly leaves behind fine scratches but they are so fine we do not see them and tend to satisfy ourselves with that.

If you are sure the scratches are not that deep start out with a polish on a polishing pad, do a couple of passes and inspect. If its any better do it again or continue on a compounding pad. If you still can not remove that puppy continue with a compound on a compounding pad and refine if needed with polishing. 

Instead of arguing, take the polisher into your hands and try to correct the scratch already.

@Chongo
You gave advice, if he doesnt want it just leave it be next time. Dont force it. Why do you care!


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Hi A&J,

Thanks, that clears things up a bit better. Sure, I know that compounding and polishing is similar, after all, they are all just ways of removing some of the top coat, the only difference being how aggressive they are at doing so.

I've not had any chance to get near the car yet and won't be until the body shop corrects an issue with the rear bumper (no point polishing anything and then handing it over to them to get scratched), but I'll start with the most delicate method and work my way up as you said.

Chongo, are you still here? You're the one that's thrown your toys out of the pram and gone all shouty and aggressive. The funniest bit being that you've not even been able to stop yourself posting here since threatening to do so. There's only one joke here, and that's you. Internet threats of violence?! Haha, you're pathetic!:lol:


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## rob267 (Nov 27, 2015)

Great explanation from A&J. 
As always with correction of any kind start with the least aggressive way first. 

THE GOLDEN RULE I GUESS.

Let us know how you get on with sorting it. 



Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Will do, mate. I'll throw up some pics once I've done it. :thumb:


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## Jon_Polish (Sep 4, 2007)

Wet sanding should be a last resort.

Least aggressive first.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

MBRuss said:


> Hi A&J,
> 
> Thanks, that clears things up a bit better. Sure, I know that compounding and polishing is similar, after all, they are all just ways of removing some of the top coat, the only difference being how aggressive they are at doing so.
> 
> ...


Sorry I didn't get back, just been down at Waxstoct today and won first prize for a mustang  older car section so for everyone who fought I should suggested wet sanding straight away are wrong! I did say polish first, then compound second, and as a final suggestion I said wet sanding, as for you Russ, nothing.:wave::wave:


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