# rotary holograms



## spudley_1988 (Apr 7, 2014)

Hey folks just looking for a little bit of insight on some bother i've had on a couple of cars i've machine polished at work. The probems have been on black cars and have been rotary polished using autosmart evo1 and a black foam pad. There were no heavy scratches on the car just usual cobweb and general dull paint from years of neglect.

Basic technique that i was shown for this stage was basically rotary polisher on speed setting 2 and a half which iirc was around 1100-1500rpm or there abouts. Do maybe 6 passes on this then buff off followed up with a final stage polish of autoglym.

Now once cars outside it looks really nice. After a couple of weeks nd maybe a couple of washes there's horrible hologram sort of marks when the sun hits it. Anybody any advice on why this is hapeneing as guy at work who taught me is bodyshop so his attitude is that with machine polishing thats normal and just got to live with it. I tried on one panel wiping down with a strong solvent and hand polish again but awaiting a few weeks to see if this holds out. An autoglym rep says he removes all his compounds etc with solvent or window cleaner but does anybody on here have any input whether technique or what not to where i need to go? We also had this issue with 3m finesse it and boss just binned it. Maybe i've not broke polish down enough? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## Ben_W (Feb 15, 2009)

I think you are about right with the not working it long enough bit. Might need longer to break down properly. Worth a try.

Also though, you say they appear again after a couple of washes? Could.your wash method be adding them.back in?


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## spudley_1988 (Apr 7, 2014)

What would an appropriate amount of passes be? I'd tried for experiment on the same speed to just keep going until polish was almost clear and it was around 26 passes which seemed excessive lol.

In what sense would a wash put them back in? The wash on these ones were sales pitch wash which was a rinse down with hose, washed with mitt with autosmart duet then rinsed off. The customers car we have had problems with I can't comment on his wash or even if he washed but certainly the cars looked dreadful in the sunlight.


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## spudley_1988 (Apr 7, 2014)

Also unsure if to much product can be an issue? Every section I do I add 4 blobs to the pad so is the pad


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## rynaqui (Apr 8, 2015)

Important is to keep the pad clean, especially important when finishing down. It needs to be cool and completely clean, I find if the pad slightly damp it helps. Add a couple of pea sized drops to the pad and work it in at a low speed. The lack of heat and not having too much product to break down will help you finish down nicely :buffer:


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## spudley_1988 (Apr 7, 2014)

What's the best ways in keeping pads clean whilst doing a whole car? How many passes would you do to break down a finishing polish ryna? At a low speed I done around 26 so done another section speeding it up to lower the passes but this then generated heat onto the panel.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Are you working in a body shop?


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## spudley_1988 (Apr 7, 2014)

No I was but moved down to our other branch but was taught within a body shop environment stangalang.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

spudley_1988 said:


> No I was but moved down to our other branch but was taught within a body shop environment stangalang.


So is it fresh paint that you are working with? What exactly is your role/job description? It may make a difference to your results and products you choose from here on out


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## spudley_1988 (Apr 7, 2014)

Sorry should have said I'm not doing freshly painted cars was just taught within a body shop and there methods. I generally work on sales cars 3 years or older with obvious poor care from petrol station car washes to side of the road car washes.have the usual paint prepped before buffing with de tar etc as well. Hope that helps a little more


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

spudley_1988 said:


> Sorry should have said I'm not doing freshly painted cars was just taught within a body shop and there methods. I generally work on sales cars 3 years or older with obvious poor care from petrol station car washes to side of the road car washes.have the usual paint prepped before buffing with de tar etc as well. Hope that helps a little more


Then i would say ditch the rotary and get a long throw random orbital. Quality quick results with a rotary are nearly impossible, you will always get drop back. At least with a random orbital you can crack on without fear of holograms. I don't personally condone that attitude (within the industry) but your requirements are different. On a forecourt you need fast cheap results and a rotary is not the tool. A 21mm throw machine with 6" pads covers a lot of ground quickly so its worth a look


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## spudley_1988 (Apr 7, 2014)

Any advice on which machine to look for? It will be bought for myself by myself so not overly pricey as boss only buys rotaries lol. How do you mean attitude within industry? Do you mean how body shops yeah buffing or have I picked that up wrong? I almost went for a non rotary machine for home use but was always under belief that a rotary gave faster results.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

spudley_1988 said:


> Any advice on which machine to look for? It will be bought for myself by myself so not overly pricey as boss only buys rotaries lol. How do you mean attitude within industry? Do you mean how body shops yeah buffing or have I picked that up wrong? I almost went for a non rotary machine for home use but was always under belief that a rotary gave faster results.


By "attitude within the industry" i meant that a detailer advising someone on how to rush safely will often be perceived as wrong or dangerous. But i have a sense of perspective, and i know that forecourt cars need fast "decent" results, not perfection. It was more aimed at protecting myself.

Rotaries are like a manual gearbox, they need a real skilled user to get the absolute best from them. Random orbitals have come so far now that the results are quick and very good indeed and more accessible to more people. they make sense for a lot of applications i wish people could change their perception of them


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## spudley_1988 (Apr 7, 2014)

Ah yes sorry I'm with you now and couldn't agree more. I get told most times to have a full machine polish done in a matter of a few hours so it's bloody annoying. 

What DA machine would you advise on personally? Something like a da21?


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

spudley_1988 said:


> Ah yes sorry I'm with you now and couldn't agree more. I get told most times to have a full machine polish done in a matter of a few hours so it's bloody annoying.
> 
> What DA machine would you advise on personally? Something like a da21?


Yes for the most part any long throw machine will get quick results. That would be absolutely fine


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## spudley_1988 (Apr 7, 2014)

Magic I shall look into one of these and in the mean time (until i can afford a DA lol) will need to keep trying to get the rotary to come good at work. I was told again by boss when we had the customers car back in to try strip the oils off with thinners but i always thought thinners would have been a bit coarse?


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## meganemike (Aug 14, 2016)

I've used panel wipe to clean off residue. Also are you going up and down left to right when working the machine.?? I don't have a lot of use with a rotary, but just thought I'd through somethings out there 


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## JMorty (Apr 25, 2011)

Agree with stangalang completely, If you don't have time to finish down correctly with rotary then switch to long throw orbital.

As for the 'Appearacne after a couple of washes', that's the fillers in the polish/compound doing that.

The fillers will sit in the holograms and will disapear after a few washes. The car should be Panel Wiped after each section has been worked on, even if it requires another go. The panel wipe will show you the true level of correction.

There should be loads of info on here about polishing teq and finishing down.

I hope that helps!


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## Paul.D (Jun 26, 2013)

Spudley
just a couple of thoughts regarding holograms are you keeping the pad flat with the paint work is the machine trying to walk away from you when you using it or can you find the balance point so it will sit and spin on the spot and work from there ?
The other thought i had is the pad your using too soft and not breaking the compund down completly ?


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## DRGloss (Sep 27, 2016)

Okay I've only skimmed through the thread. I tested some auto smart evo1 once and to say it's coarse is an understatement. It's in the same league as Fast Cut original by 3m and farecla G6 rapid. These polishes all hologram clearcoat. It's sounds like the second stage polish is just filling these holograms on a temporary basis. Then when washed out by cleaning or rain. The holograms are left behind with no "polish" sitting inside them hiding them. You need a finer cutting compound. There are tons of threads about compounds. G3 premium on a black soft foam I what we currently use to cut away holograms. Two other little pointers the pad may need de caking with a brush so your only using fresh liquid and not dried compound. I would do this after every visit to the panel and reapply compound. And if your polishing whole cars ensure they are fully clayed down. As you polish the heat release stuck on contaminants into the pad which the drags them across the clearcoat. 

Hope these pointers help 


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