# Infiniti---shocking paintwork and customer service



## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

Hi, bit of a rant here but also to pass on my experience of Infiniti cars, just be careful if you are considering this brand!!!

Ordered a brand new M37 from Infiniti Glasgow, delivery date was supposed to be March 1st., ten days late the car finally arrives, fobbed off with a load of different stories as to why it was late.
I collected the car and did not notice anything too bad on the paintwork, lighting on the day was not great and it rained a little on the way home, next day got the car cleaned up and could not believe the amount of swirls,scratches etc on every panel, I had arranged to meet with the centre manager a few days later to discuss the delivery issues so decided to show him the paint issues at the same time.

Upon inspection by the centre manager he agreed that the paint condition was unacceptable and the car should never have been handed over to a customer in that condition, he then agreed to have the paint work corrected by a detailer at their expense, what a result!!!!

A few days later the car goes to the detailer, I receive a phone call from him to say the paint is in far worse condition than first thought and could I call in at his unit to discuss it, when I arrived the full extent of the problem was revealed, not only was the car badly scratched and swirled but it had transport film residue marks on almost every panel which where proving difficult to remove, the main problem was the paint was so soft that it was almost impossible to correct it without introducing new marks,the unprotected areas of paint had actually dulled and had very bad oxidisation, all of this was reported back to the dealer and they immediately declared that it was nonsense and they would send it to their approved bodyshop and get the issue sorted, my heart sank at this point.

I insisted that we should really be looking at replacing the car, the dealership declined this and insisted that the bodyshop could rectify it and it was their policy to try and resolve the problem.

So the car was sent to the bodyshop, completely against the advice of the detailer and against my gut instinct, fast forward a week and its back, in a far worse condition than before, you can not begin to imagine just how bad the paintwork is now, on top of that all of the chrome trim was damaged because it had not been masked up prior to their attempt at correction.

In between all this going on I have been in touch with Infiniti customer service, trading standards, legal advice etc, Infiniti are completely useless, they try to convince you that they are so different from any other manufacturer, believe me they are not, they do not even come close to being a premium brand, they have no interest in trying to resolve this issue, they insist and actually made the comment it was the Glasgow centres problem and they could sort it out!!!, the legal position is also difficult, basically the finance company own the car and they are believing everything the dealer tells them, that the car is OK!, to reject it I have to stop using the car, record the mileage and inform them that I am now rejecting the car and have stopped using it, meantime I have to either buy or hire another car at my expense until it is resolved which can take up to 18 months

So my only option is that I continue with the car and try to get the problem fixed, the car is booked in at another detailer selected by Infiniti, I have no doubt in the skill or experience of either detailers involved but there does appear to be a problem with the super soft scratch shield paint, it is almost impossible to correct with this extent of damage on it and it is not an isolated case, I have found out that they have had several unhappy customers with paintwork issues, the Infiniti centre claim it was an isolated case not several customers!!!!!

Infiniti think they are doing me a big favour by having the paint corrected at their expense!!!, so what ,they are only trying to get the car to look how it should have to start with and are refusing to offer any other form of compensation for the inconvenience lost time etc of taking the car back and forward to them and bodyshops, in fact I have actually clocked up approx 160 miles doing this

so my advice on Infiniti---do not touch them with a barge pole, they are living on another planet thinking they can compete with other premium brands, spend your hard earned cash elsewhere and steer clear of this outfit.

Hi Guys
can I just clarify something above, I did say that it was almost impossible to correct, the reality is that it could have been possible but was such hard work and time consuming it would have taken twice as long to do, the detailer had other work booked and couldnt spend anymore time on it

The following pictures are the condition of the car upon delivery. The second set are after it came back from the dealers bodyshop.










































































[//i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u495/simonoram/Delivery%20Photo%20M35/DSC09003_zps397b6c4c.jpg[/IMG]

























This is how the car came back from the dealers body shop.


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## Jord (Apr 3, 2012)

Sounds like a nightmare..

I'm dreading picking up my new car later this month, even though I should be excited, purely because of all the horror stories i've heard about dealerships :| 

Hope you manage to get it sorted.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

it is a nightmare, spoiled the whole experience of a new car, just hope we can get it to some sort of acceptable level


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## dalecyt (Nov 16, 2010)

Jord said:


> Sounds like a nightmare..
> 
> I'm dreading picking up my new car later this month, even though I should be excited, purely because of all the horror stories i've heard about dealerships :|
> 
> Hope you manage to get it sorted.


I'm in the same boat, picking up a car soon and the demo they have in stock is in an absolute state, swirl marks,deep scratches and it was dirty as hell.

Fearing for my soon to be paint!


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Shocking state of affairs. 

It seems there are none or hardly any decent car dealers in and around the Glasgow area. I've had an abundance of problems with two of the big players in the area (Parks and Arnold Clark) both of which had a disgusting attitude to customer care, in fact almost non existent! 

Hope you get it all sorted out soon one way or another...


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Sounds like a nightmare. 

Can you post up some pictures so we can see?

The legal stance is Infinity Glasgow who are responsible. They sold you the car so they are your point of contact and responsible for rectifying it. 

What did trading standards say? 

I fear you might be in for a huge fight. Swirls and minor scratches on the paint will likely be deemed as acceptable as they don't accept the function of thrle car. 

The damage will have to be excessive in the eyes of the normal customer.


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Kerr said:


> Sounds like a nightmare.
> 
> Can you post up some pictures so we can see?
> 
> ...


I'm guessing it's pretty bad if even the dealership acknowledged that it was unacceptable.

A lot of car dealerships now use mini car washes for cleaning so are well aware if what swirls look like lol.


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## ryans2 (Apr 8, 2014)

I feel for you mate.. I'd of killed them by now


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

I'm picking up a new Merc next week, they know not to remove any of the transport protection until I've seen it. They'll then let me clean it up myself.

I'm VERY surprised they couldn't remove 'transport film residue'. Tardis normally gets rid of the sticky stuff or if it's the waxy stuff a hot pressure wash should do it, failing that use a steamer and wipe it.

Can I ask what detailer it went to first, and who Infiniti has chosen? It would be good to see what it was like when delivered.


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## Coopertim (May 20, 2012)

Might be worth a YouTube video perhaps, did wonders for the porche guy


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

rf860 said:


> I'm guessing it's pretty bad if even the dealership acknowledged that it was unacceptable.
> 
> A lot of car dealerships now use mini car washes for cleaning so are well aware if what swirls look like lol.


We are all just guessing at the moment, but it is normal for new cars to have various small defects.

The problem I see here is the OP didn't notice any marks when he bought it. He since washed the paint that he has been told is too soft, then founds lots of marks.

That sounds like debatable ground for where the damage took place.

His first argument is about the delivery. He was going to discuss that firstly and added the paint in. I personally don't think a car arriving 10 days late from the other side of the world is a major gripe. Seen it happen loads of times.

The dealer knew they had an unhappy customer on their hands and agreed to his demands of getting a detailer to rectify. Sometimes complaints are valid, sometimes companies do things to appease people.

Now a detailer has raised further issues that the OP wasn't even aware of after he inspected the car after washing it. So these faults are hard to go back to a dealer and complain about when the OP needed an expert to tell him about them.

So it's left the dealership and had two people have a go at this ultra soft paint and is in worse condition than it left the dealer.

That's already opened up lots of finger pointing.

I've honestly never heard of paint that soft and it will be interesting to hear some other expert input.

Nanoman posts an interesting question about who the detailier was. Maybe he isn't up to the job and is part of the issue?

I do feel sorry for the OP as it is hard spending lots of money on a product and not being happy with it.

I do feel he is in for a shock if he feels he will manage to reject it.

The legal stance is the dealer does have the chance to rectify errors. Small faults aren't justifiable reasons to reject a car.

I've had issues with my previous car purchase and had fights over buying very expensive shoes too. I think people will be shocked how small your legal rights are.

Cosmetic finishes are not deemed important in many cases unless very severe and affect the purpose, which swirls don't.

Hopefully the OP comes back and keeps us up to date. I did notice he hadn't been on DW for a couple of years before this issue.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

Kerr said:


> Sounds like a nightmare.
> 
> Can you post up some pictures so we can see?
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

Kerr said:


> We are all just guessing at the moment, but it is normal for new cars to have various small defects.
> 
> The problem I see here is the OP didn't notice any marks when he bought it. He since washed the paint that he has been told is too soft, then founds lots of marks.
> 
> ...


Hi
I agree some of the marks could have been due to washing but not to the extent of the damage you can see, the centre agreed it was unacceptable, promised the moon on a stick and is now back tracking because the problem has been made worse by his body shop, the swirls etc are not the only issue, the marks left by the transport film is strange, I have actually seen it on their showroom car and I know they have had problems with it in the past, the first detailer did not attempt to do the whole car, just a few panels and then flagged up the issues, the body shop went ahead full steam on the whole car.
I dont think its fair to name the detailer, he is well known here and very capable.
according to trading standards you do not have to give them a chance to fix it, but as you say the odds are stacked against you as the consumer
as you point out, I have not been on here for a while, due to business commitments and struggling through the past couple of years I have been very busy 
Finally, on the delivery, the late arrival was not a major issue, it was the lies and messing about surrounding it that was the problem,


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

rf860 said:


> I'm guessing it's pretty bad if even the dealership acknowledged that it was unacceptable.
> 
> A lot of car dealerships now use mini car washes for cleaning so are well aware if what swirls look like lol.


yip pretty bad, the body shop manager actually admitted when he seen it that it needed a bit more work done!!!, then said, perhaps you should get one of those paint detailer guys to look at it, this isnt really our specialist area!!!!


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

BEKANA said:


> Kerr said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a nightmare.
> ...


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

Kerr said:


> BEKANA said:
> 
> 
> > I bought my girlfriend Louboutin shoes as a Christmas present. I never thought about inspecting them prior to leaving the shop as they were brand new in the box.
> ...


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Personally, I think letting them prep the car was a mistake if you're fussy about the condition of it.

Letting them butcher it at a bodyshop was a cardinal sin and was only ever going to end up with them machining the **** out of it. At best you'd get it back with a filler-heavy glaze looking shiny until you clean it properly and strip the fillers out.

I don't understand why you won't name the 'detailer' that gave it a bash. There's only three pro's worth the title 'detailer' in the area that I'm aware of.

Do you have any pics at all?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

Nanoman said:


> Personally, I think letting them prep the car was a mistake if you're fussy about the condition of it.
> 
> Letting them butcher it at a bodyshop was a cardinal sin and was only ever going to end up with them machining the **** out of it. At best you'd get it back with a filler-heavy glaze looking shiny until you clean it properly and strip the fillers out.
> 
> ...


yes got pics, will get them on soon, dont want to name the detailer and make any implication that it was his fault, as far as I am concerned he done all he could and did not want to continue with it.
looking back perhaps I should have told them not to prep the car, just shows that they are no more careful with a £40k car than a £500 runner

Just recalled another classic statement made by both the centre manager and the bodyshop manager
"its a black car, what do you expect?, a perfect finish?"


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## BRYHER (Aug 19, 2008)

Hey I am sick for you, I bought a new INFINITI (LEEDS) in September (I think) they ran into delays and on examination what they were telling me was true DVLA had set up a fairly new system! So a little annoyed I collected the car later than I expected.(Grrrr)

I told the dealership I wanted to get a private detailer in but they insisted their guy was ok, well better than ok really, they introduced me to him I told him what I expected and he showed me his usual finish quality. Still with me? 

It was very good he had even found a special polish/finish that he had ordered from America. By arrangement I gave him my preferred gear DURAGLOSS stuff and he used that for me on the car, I mentioned I liked the lines in the carpets after cleaning and he obliged with them too. I offered him a tip for the excellent job he had done and he refused outright saying it was his job and he had enjoyed doing it.
I wish you had got him.
good luck,
Michael


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

BRYHER said:


> Hey I am sick for you, I bought a new INFINITI (LEEDS) in September (I think) they ran into delays and on examination what they were telling me was true DVLA had set up a fairly new system! So a little annoyed I collected the car later than I expected.(Grrrr)
> 
> I told the dealership I wanted to get a private detailer in but they insisted their guy was ok, well better than ok really, they introduced me to him I told him what I expected and he showed me his usual finish quality. Still with me?
> 
> ...


yes its just pot luck I suppose, but both Infiniti and the dealer are playing a hard game, they know about the issues in the past but are trying to say its a completely different problem


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

I have corrected an M35h that was in unbelievable condition. Turns out it isn't that hard to do but because it has self healing paint (although I'd describe it more as self harming) it doesn't behave like any other paint. Your detailer would be able to find this information if he tried, just as I did after 2 days of swearing!


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

yip its got that, little sticker under the bonnet, use only approved products, still trying to find out what the approved products are
do you find the paint to be very very soft?


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

BEKANA said:


> Kerr said:
> 
> 
> > If you buy the car direct from the dealership as an cash purchase, then you have very few rights to return it, as soon as you leave you have accepted it
> ...


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

Superspec said:


> BEKANA said:
> 
> 
> > That isn't correct. Method of payment makes no difference to the sales of goods act. You always have a reasonable period of time to inspect the goods and ensure they are fit for purpose including any specific, non standard requests you told the vendor about. You don't accept a car until you have had chance to drive it and thoroughly inspect it.
> ...


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## BRYHER (Aug 19, 2008)

Gary Dean video, detailing an abused INFINIT 




and more stuff here http://g35driver.com/forums/care-detailing/314217-anbuzero-detailed-2009-infiniti-g37xs.html

Michael


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

Still wouldn't affect rights on a cash sale. I am a bit of an expert on the sales of goods act  I haven't always been a detailer


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## BRYHER (Aug 19, 2008)

Swirl hell but doable..... http://www.autopia.org/forum/topic/...eld-paint-complete-detail-by-unique-car-care/
Michael


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

thanks, I would not believe everything these departments tell you, all I know is that speaking to them and my lawyer its almost impossible to reject a car without investing some serious money in the hope you win the case.
that said, they all have a different view on it, almost got the impression from trading standards they wanted me to dump the car at the showroom and stop the payments, kept insisting it will get their attention!!!


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Superspec said:


> BEKANA said:
> 
> 
> > That isn't correct. Method of payment makes no difference to the sales of goods act. You always have a reasonable period of time to inspect the goods and ensure they are fit for purpose including any specific, non standard requests you told the vendor about. You don't accept a car until you have had chance to drive it and thoroughly inspect it.
> ...


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## rlc18 (Mar 25, 2010)

This may be a long shot but social media is actually a great way to get things sorted these days. The person/people looking after the company social media is often at head office and have a bit more sway in how things are presented to higher powers. It also helps that they want to give off a sense of great customer service to everyone else that may be following them.

Not sure if Infiniti have a UK Twitter or Facebook but it may be worth complaining to them. Obviously it’s a little more complicated being a car but it can’t hurt to publicly shame them and see how they react...


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2014)

pics now on, any comments/feedback welcome, thanks


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

How the hell could a car pass it's PDI looking like that!


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2014)

thats another balls up from the dealer, the document was never completed, everything ticked off and signed by the technician but nothing from the valeters


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## Andyrat85 (Oct 7, 2013)

Where are the pictures ??


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## kev999 (Feb 16, 2007)

Holy sheet,did Stevi Wonder start working there.I think infiniti should be ashamed for letting that out on the road,hope you get it sorted and a bit of compo for your shocking treatment and stress.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2014)

hope so mate, Infiniti think they are doing me a favour by paying a detailer to sort out this mess, the only compo offered so far is the first service FOC, but that was because they messed up on the delivery and offered to do it before the paint issue was ever mentioned


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## Yowfailed (Mar 14, 2012)

Andyrat85 said:


> Where are the pictures ??


Me too


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Yowfailed said:


> Me too


Page 1 first post.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

I would of rejected that on the spot, when buying a car spend a good half hour on your own and inspect fully.
Not end of the world, just has too be machined fully.


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## polac5397 (Apr 16, 2014)

this worked for a friend of mine who bought a range rover which developed numerous faults, suspension sat nav locking etc. speak to the sales manager , and tell him at the weekend (busiest time) you will bring the car and lock it up near the entrance with a huge fluorescent paper sign drawing peoples attention to the short fall. ie the paint. Its amazing what got sorted for him .......hope it works!!


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## Andyrat85 (Oct 7, 2013)

Must have just needed it to load.

That is absolutely shocking not sure which is worse they really have just hacked the crap outta that paint !!! I'd suggest once it is fixed getting the whole car done in the paint shield stuff !!!


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## Yowfailed (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks Bud 

What's the white powder residue around the front bumper/grill area? Surely not wax 'chalking' after so many people have had a go at it.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Oooft. Pics are shocking. In pic 1 and pic 2 it looks like there's polish residue under headlight, on grill and on numberplate. Very strange if that's how it turned up from dealers.

Any pro detailer worth their salt should be able to correct that and should have known it would have the nasty Nissan self-healing paint.

I honestly don't understand how it's proving so difficult. Have you done any paint depth measurements before/after they hacked the **** out of it?


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2014)

I think the last paint reading was around 130-132


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

A lot of the marks look like water stains.

it would be interesting to hear a proffesional detailers opinion. 

We all know that that people can do a substandard job, but to give a car back with all those marks is really low. It's worse than a team of 5 year olds could manage.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2014)

some of it is water stains, on the doors, but that was how it was returned, when i arrived to collect it you could see a layer of dust on the bonnet and roof, the bodyshop didnt bother to clean it when they finished


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

I honestly do feel the best way is doing a complete protest in front of the dealers, get a board with some writing and protest right front of the car so others can see, the neighbors down there support you, just have to nail them hard but you can do it :thumb:


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2014)

believe me mate I have thought about it many times, the problem is that my lawyer has advised me that the finance company own the car and they have to make the choice to take it back, yes the dealer could step in and help but they are refusing to do that.
if it did go down the legal route then some of these tactics could go against me


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

True it does sound as the lawyer is making sense of the re preoccupations for later, the dealer does sound very awful for not accepting responsibility of some kind, hope you get this matter resolved fast and more importantly efficiently in your time scale with the results you are after.


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

Kerr said:


> Superspec said:
> 
> 
> > You've somehow quoted my name, but have a post made by someone else.
> ...


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Superspec said:


> What????


Just like above, the quoting has been all messed up.

You quoted something BENKANA said and it appears you quoted me, which you didn't.


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

A lot of those images are obviously taken after someone has had a go at it - you can see dust from the polishing, a dealer wouldn't have left that and that much dust came from heavy cutting - the last thing you should be doing with these paints. There are also a couple of images with attempts at clever 50:50's that have failed miserably. And the water marks are probably from where someone has used IPA/QD/Water to try to remove baked on olish residue.

If I'm right in what I think I'm seeing - the first detailer's attempt at correction - I'd say he/she has a lot to answer for. Correcting self healing paint isn't hard once you know how to do it. 

I would post a link to the car I did but since I'm not a paid member I can't. 

Out of interest, what protection products were going on it?


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

Kerr said:


> Just like above, the quoting has been all messed up.
> 
> You quoted something BENKANA said and it appears you quoted me, which you didn't.


Not sure how I did that! I was on my phone though and to be fair I did think it was you not Benkana I was quoting!

Nevermind, these things happen, no harm done.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2014)

Superspec said:


> A lot of those images are obviously taken after someone has had a go at it - you can see dust from the polishing, a dealer wouldn't have left that and that much dust came from heavy cutting - the last thing you should be doing with these paints. There are also a couple of images with attempts at clever 50:50's that have failed miserably. And the water marks are probably from where someone has used IPA/QD/Water to try to remove baked on olish residue.
> 
> If I'm right in what I think I'm seeing - the first detailer's attempt at correction - I'd say he/she has a lot to answer for. Correcting self healing paint isn't hard once you know how to do it.
> 
> ...


these photos where taken at detailers unit, the dust is from a part of the bonnet he was working on, no 50/50 shots taken, what you see is the outline of the transport film after it was removed, the first 14 pics are before the body shop got hold of it, 3 days old and washed once by me, the next set of photos are after the body shop attempted to fix it, the water marks on the doors where there when it was returned from them


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

I'm so confused.

Are these pics before or after the detailer had a bash at it?


















Your post says that's the car upon delivery but you seem to contradict that?


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2014)

Nanoman said:


> I'm so confused.
> 
> Are these pics before or after the detailer had a bash at it?
> 
> ...


this is before the detailer done anything, at this point its 3 days old and had one wash, the detailer took these photos before continuing with any work
so the first 14 pics are what it was like basically as it was delivered, the next set of photos is after the body shop had a go at it


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## Andyrat85 (Oct 7, 2013)

So it has all the dust from compounding on the paint when it arrived ??? Surely you would have noticed that and rejected the car straight off?? And if you washed it
Before it went to the detailer then even a basic prewash would remove that dust??

That doesn't make sense, surely no dealer would let that go out like that ?? Are there any pictures after the detailer had worked on it ??


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2014)

Andyrat85 said:


> So it has all the dust from compounding on the paint when it arrived ???
> 
> That doesn't make sense, surely no dealer would let that go out like that ?? Are there any pictures after the detailer had worked on it ??


no.the dust is from one part of the bonnet being corrected, no pics before it was removed from the detailer, to be honest he only tried a few panels and the dealer was informed about the issues, then the dealer turned up and took the car away


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## Andyrat85 (Oct 7, 2013)

so where are you now ?? Because now don't quote me on this but surely a paint should only be corrected once or twice in its life to preserve the clear coat, but if these people are butchering up your clear it won't be long before there is none left. 

Have you found out what the approved products are yet ??


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

So the detailer did try heavy compounding on the soft, sticky paint..? I wouldn't really expect that to work on this self-healing paint. I've found it to be a PITA but have never needed heavy compounding. 

I might be wrong and speaking completely out of turn but I'm starting to doubt this well known pro is who I thought it was initially. 

Please take this in the nicest way in which it's meant but I think you need to remove some of the doubt/confusion in your posts if you're putting something in writing to the dealer. It's coming across as confused and full of holes. It's easily done on a forum especially when you're pissed off but this is just some friendly advice. 

A perfect example is saying 'here's the pics of the car upon delivery' then backtracking and saying 'here's the pics of the car when it was 3 days old after I washed it at the detailers which is why it's got compounding dust on it'. 

The dealer may well read this thread.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2014)

Andyrat85 said:


> so where are you now ?? Because now don't quote me on this but surely a paint should only be corrected once or twice in its life to preserve the clear coat, but if these people are butchering up your clear it won't be long before there is none left.
> 
> Have you found out what the approved products are yet ??


at the moment the car is booked in next week to another detailer selected by Infiniti, as far as I know he has checked the paint thickness and said its ok to continue but I think this will be its final ever correction in its life!!!

cant find out anything about the approved products


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

BEKANA said:


> no.the dust is from one part of the bonnet being corrected, no pics before it was removed from the detailer, to be honest he only tried a few panels and the dealer was informed about the issues, then the dealer turned up and took the car away


I'm a bit lost now.

I think it weakens your case badly that the photos you've provided to prove the condition from the dealer, is after a detailer has been working on it. Also your wash too.

If it was in that condition prior to the detailer touching it, I fail to understand how you could miss that extent of marks prior to leaving the dealer. I understand you will miss some marks, but as you say every single panel is marked badly.

It looks as some form of machine polisher has been on the panels on most photos.

I think most of us are struggling to grasp what harm was caused by who.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

BEKANA said:


> at the moment the car is booked in next week to another detailer selected by Infiniti, as far as I know he has checked the paint thickness and said its ok to continue but I think this will be its final ever correction in its life!!!
> 
> cant find out anything about the approved products


I think you need to be very careful before sending it to another 'detailer'. Are these guys (and the previous guy) really proper professional detailers?

Most of the good pro's regardless of area are booked up well in advance and I wouldn't expect Infiniti to know a proper detailer if it jumped through the showroom glass shouting 'I'm a mother****ing detailer' before punching them in the ****. Rushing from one guy with a rotary to another is likely to make this worse, not better.

I still say a proper 'detailer' will be able to fix this without too much trouble. Personally I'd ask Caledonia for some advice here.

Edit: Just want to emphasize I might be being totally unfair to whoever the 'detailer' was who looked at this first.

It would be good to know what products the detailer tried on it.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2014)

Kerr said:


> I'm a bit lost now.
> 
> I think it weakens your case badly that the photos you've provided to prove the condition from the dealer, is after a detailer has been working on it.
> 
> ...


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## Deniance (Jun 28, 2008)

What is the colour called?, i have an obsidian black skyline which in usa is an infiniti g35, the paint is so soft that you can scratch it with your clean finger. Even wiping with an mf towel marks it, i can believe all of those photos ive had first hand experience with infiniti paint. I bet its had a few washes since it left the factory and the paint is that soft that this damage is believable! On the plus side though, it polishes up so easy. Hope you get it sorted


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## Big Buffer (Jan 1, 2011)

Sounds like your having a mare


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

BEKANA said:


> at the moment the car is booked in next week to another detailer selected by Infiniti, as far as I know he has checked the paint thickness and said its ok to continue but I think this will be its final ever correction in its life!!!
> 
> cant find out anything about the approved products


Agree with Nanomans previous post. Infinitis idea of a detailer is quite likely to be a smart repairer who will give it a customary "mop" costing the dealership very little.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2014)

Deniance said:


> What is the colour called?, i have an obsidian black skyline which in usa is an infiniti g35, the paint is so soft that you can scratch it with your clean finger. Even wiping with an mf towel marks it, i can believe all of those photos ive had first hand experience with infiniti paint. I bet its had a few washes since it left the factory and the paint is that soft that this damage is believable! On the plus side though, it polishes up so easy. Hope you get it sorted


same colour mate, thank god someone knows what I am on about, the paint is super soft, you can mark it just by touching it


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2014)

S63 said:


> Agree with Nanomans previous post. Infinitis idea of a detailer is quite likely to be a smart repairer who will give it a customary "mop" costing the dealership very little.


I agree with you on this as far as the body shop are concerned but both detailers are pros to the best of my knowledge


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

not read through all this thread but theres no way I'd allow a dealer to select a 'detailer' - I very much doubt they'll know what a detailer actually is / does..

dealers 'correcting' paint conjures up images of a rotary (or 'mop' as they'll call it..) at high speed with a wool pad and a harsh compound such as G3, with no refining afterwards..


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

If it's who I think it is the next guy should be able to do something decent with this... apparently Infiniti Glasgow do know what a detailer is (although it's not my recommendation).

Good luck!


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

The other option is to go with the bare metal finish


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2014)

Exotica said:


> The other option is to go with the bare metal finish


any more paint correction and I might just end up with that!!!!


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## Andyrat85 (Oct 7, 2013)

Hopefully it gets sorted for you, once it's sorted I hope you get some excellent protection on once it's all corrected


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

G3 kev.!!!!!!!!!!
Get real mate 
G1 is the ONLY product those boys have. They just professionally reduce the cut by either adding more water ( mmmmm see thise water spots?????? Classic g spoting isnt it) OR they just dont machine it that long.
@OP 
I fail to see how you missed any of those before accepting it. If as you say those pics were taken at the moppers ( sorry i refuse point blank to call him a detailer on the grounds that som of those look machine inflicted yet are in the same lighting as the ones the mopper took).
So it would seem to me that ( not being rude or sceptical here)
A, the valet bay boys screwd it up and you accepted it.
B, a suposed detailer ( otherwise known as a mopper) did all that damage ( sorry refuse to accept that a dealer would accept that back in a worse condition)
Or C, you did this and are trying to find out how to correct your **** up by passing the work off as someone elses ( hey its been done before)


Vinyl wrap it that will sort it


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

Theres not much AllenF doesnt know about cleaning vehicles and I agree with his opinion

I would also point out that in your first set of pics which you say are after you first received the car from the dealer there is loads of compound splatter on the grill and under the headlight. Lets assume you picked the car up on a dull day and the paint defects where not seen. Surely all this compound splatter would set alarm bells ringing?


BEKANA said:


> The following pictures are the condition of the car upon delivery. The second set are after it came back from the dealers bodyshop.


What the hell is all that about?


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

It's called "wham bam thank you ma'am" terrible experience.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2014)

AllenF said:


> G3 kev.!!!!!!!!!!
> Get real mate
> G1 is the ONLY product those boys have. They just professionally reduce the cut by either adding more water ( mmmmm see thise water spots?????? Classic g spoting isnt it) OR they just dont machine it that long.
> @OP
> ...


thats your opinion, please read all the info and get all the facts before making wild comments


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2014)

The Doctor said:


> Theres not much AllenF doesnt know about cleaning vehicles and I agree with his opinion
> 
> I would also point out that in your first set of pics which you say are after you first received the car from the dealer there is loads of compound splatter on the grill and under the headlight. Lets assume you picked the car up on a dull day and the paint defects where not seen. Surely all this compound splatter would set alarm bells ringing?
> 
> What the hell is all that about?


please read all the posts, this has been discussed


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## Deniance (Jun 28, 2008)

This paint is so soft it can be corrected with one set of any finishing polish, check out autopia in the showroom section search for black infiniti!


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

I have read all the posts and it just seems to get more contradictory the further its dug at.
That sets alarm bells off straight away mate.
Sorry after twenty idd years i have come across most things and the way that pic is presnted makes the machining look like it was done by a five year old ( actually i take that that back i know a five year old that would make a better job) nobody in the game would machine a car like that the swirls run the wrong way near the headlight. You would go bumper to bonnet not grill to light only an amateur ould do it that way because the edged the pad ( looks like a mf cuting pad too from the swirls ).
Then there is the matter of the dusting... Its over the hromework too, making alarm bells ring again as normaly you would ( well someone that knows how to ) mask off those areas.
Then the reluctance to name the guy that did it. Sorry but if he DID do this then better to name and shame rather than let him carry on doing damage.
Sorry but the photo evidence doesnt match the written statement ( which contradicts itself )


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2014)

AllenF said:


> I have read all the posts and it just seems to get more contradictory the further its dug at.
> That sets alarm bells off straight away mate.
> Sorry after twenty idd years i have come across most things and the way that pic is presnted makes the machining look like it was done by a five year old ( actually i take that that back i know a five year old that would make a better job) nobody in the game would machine a car like that the swirls run the wrong way near the headlight. You would go bumper to bonnet not grill to light only an amateur ould do it that way because the edged the pad ( looks like a mf cuting pad too from the swirls ).
> Then there is the matter of the dusting... Its over the hromework too, making alarm bells ring again as normaly you would ( well someone that knows how to ) mask off those areas.
> ...


I dont understand what you are trying to imply here, the guy involved didnt do any of it, for all you or I know it was probably done at the dealers valeting bay, the marks on the chromework are from when the dealer sent it to their approved body shop, again not from the detailer, if you had read the post carefully you would know that, as you say it was not masked up, the body shop have admitted this, so the photos do match the story, perhaps you just dont understand it, with twenty odd years experience I would have thought you would


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

BEKANA said:


> Hi, bit of a rant here but also to pass on my experience of Infiniti cars, just be careful if you are considering this brand!!!
> 
> Ordered a brand new M37 from Infiniti Glasgow, delivery date was supposed to be March 1st., ten days late the car finally arrives, fobbed off with a load of different stories as to why it was late.
> I collected the car and did not notice anything too bad on the paintwork, lighting on the day was not great and it rained a little on the way home, next day got the car cleaned up and could not believe the amount of swirls,scratches etc on every panel, I had arranged to meet with the centre manager a few days later to discuss the delivery issues so decided to show him the paint issues at the same time.
> ...


Ok so the FIRST picture you state is how you picked it up....... And you didnt spot any of that???
Second pic you say is how you picked it up ........ Again you didnt see that.....
Now scroll it down the pics from when it came back from the bodyshop.. One question.
How the hell did you manage to get the same lighting levals ( you can see the car is outside ) either the photos are out of sync, you are a photographic genius ( yet didnt spot all that "damage" ) or there is a bit we are not being told.
And as for the detailer saying that he Was struggling to remove traffic film residue. Sorry mate that is day one week one stuff . How to dewax a car from transit state?
You state it rained on the way home and you cleaned it YET all the compounding dust still lays on it... supposedly in an as is state from the dealers
Sorry mate you have totally lost me because the pictures contradict what you say.


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## Deanoecosse (Mar 15, 2007)

AllenF, if the OP says the detailer didn't do anything to the car, then who are you to say he's a liar? why would he have to gain by covering for a detailer who's done a poor job, surely he would "name & shame" if thats the case?
As for the OP, before the car does go to another detailer, its's probably a good idea if you mention the name here so you can get feedback from others who have used them previously, before the car ends up down to bare metal!


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2014)

AllenF said:


> Ok so the FIRST picture you state is how you picked it up....... And you didnt spot any of that???
> Second pic you say is how you picked it up ........ Again you didnt see that.....
> Now scroll it down the pics from when it came back from the bodyshop.. One question.
> How the hell did you manage to get the same lighting levals ( you can see the car is outside ) either the photos are out of sync, you are a photographic genius ( yet didnt spot all that "damage" ) or there is a bit we are not being told.
> ...


ok, I will try again, the first pics where taken in the detailers unit under his lighting, if you seen the car right now sitting outside you would think it looks fine, just as I thought it did upon collection, only when sunlight or specific light hits it at varoius angles do you see the damage

when it came back from the bodyshop I didnt mention anything about not seeing that damage, it was pointed out to the dealer and he agreed with me, that is why its going back to another detailer to have further work done.

I also didnt mention traffic film residue, the lines you see on the car are where the film had been removed, the paint under the film was clearer with more gloss etc than the exposed areas, possibly oxisdised,

after collecting the car it rained, the pics where taken a few days later when the car was at the detailers unit and a small area of the bonnet had been worked on, thats why you see polish residue.

you seem to be on a mission here to protect Infiniti and shame a detailer who has done nothing wrong, the whole point of this post is to reveal what condition Infiniti send out cars and to highlight after sending it to their approved body shop is it actually in a worse condition

I have no intention to name the detailer involved, its not a witch hunt, the only people giulty here are Infiniti and their bodyshop.


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## mikex (Jul 17, 2013)

All this arguing about when and who means nothing.

Infiniti agreed the paint was sub standard.
Organised for it to go to a 3rd party
Infiniti are responsible for that 3rd parties actions.

If the OP had said "I want it to go the this guy" and the delaer only agreed to pay for it, then there would be no recourse really. but the way I see it, its still Infiniti's problem to fix. they have already agreed its not good enough and as yet havnt been able to fix it.

OP, ring the sales manager daily. Lie about who you are if he stops taking calls. if nothing happens, ring hourly.


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Well i sure as hell would like to know
Quote"
A few days later the car goes to the detailer, I receive a phone call from him to say the paint is in far worse condition than first thought and could I call in at his unit to discuss it, when I arrived the full extent of the problem was revealed, not only was the car badly scratched and swirled *but it had transport film residue marks on almost every panel which where proving difficult to remove*, the main problem was the paint was so soft that it was almost impossible to correct it without introducing new marks,the unprotected areas of paint had actually dulled and had very bad oxidisation, all of this was reported back to the dealer and they immediately declared that it was nonsense and they would send it to their approved bodyshop and get the issue sorted, my heart sank at this point."
Who he was that couldnt dewax a car.
Hang on this wasnt that h20 bloke in fife was it??????.
As stated a very fine cut on a very fine pad at a very slow speed in the correct hands would ge able to sort that without batting an eyelid at it.
Im still confused about the dust though.
How did it manage to remain on there through the rain on the way home AND the OP's own clean????? ( yet further down the pics you can see the compound residue that has had a bad attempt at washing off.. 
The photos dont fit the timeline. Someone inflicted that damage in the first pic. THAT is the root cause of the problem ( it wouldnt have left the factory like that and it wouldnt have picked that damage up in transit due to transit wrappers on it { which were present as the detailer had trouble removing the residue}).
There is a bit missing either the pic of the car in the dealers or a process that we havent been told.
How long after the car was picked up was that pic taken? What had been done to it by who at that point? 
Compound dust would have washed off either in the rain on the way home or in the clean


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2014)

*infiniti*

I will PM you, thanks


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

Regardless the OP states the first set of pics are of the car upon delivery from the dealer yet it's covered in compound dust. He then says he only saw the state of the paint after he had washed it so he must of took these pics after he had washed it right? If so why is there compound dust everywhere. Surely washing would remove that? It just doesn't add up. Somebody has been mopping the life out of this poor car in those first pics yet he states that is how it was handed over to him.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2014)

mikex said:


> All this arguing about when and who means nothing.
> 
> Infiniti agreed the paint was sub standard.
> Organised for it to go to a 3rd party
> ...


Hi, thanks, you are 100% correct, Infiniti agreed to send it to all the people involved so I did not insist it went somewhere special
Infiniti are currently investigating the case and what to do next, but agree the car is not what to expect from a premium brand


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2014)

The Doctor said:


> Regardless the OP states the first set of pics are of the car upon delivery from the dealer yet it's covered in compound dust. He then says he only saw the state of the paint after he had washed it so he must of took these pics after he had washed it right? If so why is there compound dust everywhere. Surely washing would remove that? It just doesn't add up. Somebody has been mopping the life out of this poor car in those first pics yet he states that is how it was handed over to him.


I give up, read the whole lot of info:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:


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## Hasan1 (Jul 1, 2011)

Hope you get it sorted mate


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

BEKANA said:


> I give up, read the whole lot of info:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:


Don't be like that mate we are only trying to help. You can't go to the main dealer with all your story mixed up and incorrect because if they can get out of it they will and looking at your pics and your own wording things don't add up.

Are the first set of pics as you received the car yes or no?


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

The Doctor said:


> Don't be like that mate we are only trying to help. You can't go to the main dealer with all your story mixed up and incorrect because if they can get out of it they will and looking at your pics and your own wording things don't add up.
> 
> Are the first set of pics as you received the car yes or no?


No, they're 3 days later after he washed it. The pics were taken at the detailer's place. The detailer had a go on the bonnet by that stage which is why there is dust.


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## 66Rob (Sep 25, 2007)

Good luck Bekana, really hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction soon, really not what you expect from a Premium brand.


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

Nanoman said:


> No, they're 3 days later after he washed it. The pics were taken at the detailer's place. The detailer had a go on the bonnet by that stage which is why there is dust.


Right so this is not how the car was delivered its after he had washed it and the detailer had a go 3 days later. He needs to get the wording right otherwise the dealer will have a chance to pick holes in it. So somebody between the manufacturer and the detailer is responsible for this mess. Is there any direct picture of the area the detailer had a go at?


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## Davide82 (Sep 17, 2013)

Doctor / AllenF, I don't agree with some of your posts, a little harsh on the OP, the way I see it..........

- OP took delivery of the car......washed it and noticed the swirls / damage
- complained to Infiniti - they then agreed to get it sorted and sent to a detailer
(no pictures taken at this point!)

- detailer receives car
- Detailer works on small area on bonnet
- realises the extent of damage (difficulties etc not important at this stage)
- *pictures then taken* (hence the compound dust)

- Detailer / OP relay findings to Infiniti
- Infiniti disagree, take car back and send to approved bodyshop
- car is returned in worse condition (*2nd set of photos*)

damage was caused before OP took delivery - Infiniti agree with this statement as they then sent it to a detailer & bodyshop at their expense
You are trying to acuse the OP of lying / damaging the paint ??


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## Deniance (Jun 28, 2008)

I have seen this paint up close and although it sounds like the dealer or detailer, the paint is that soft that you can scratch it with an mf towel!, i have same paint and colour, polished boot lid came out like a mirror, 1 wash later and a quick detailer and your back to square 1, the paint is so so thin and soft you can scratch it with your finger and light pressure, the front of the car chips so badly you would not believe, there were so many complaints in the usa they changed the clear coat to super hard. It does polish super easy but it is an impossibility to not marr the paint


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

Davide82 said:


> You are trying to acuse the OP of lying / damaging the paint ??


No we are trying to decipher the story and get things straight. If the dealer can pass the blame on to somebody else then they will. No point going in with some mixed up old story and pics that say/show he picked the car up with compound dust all over it when he didn't.


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## Davide82 (Sep 17, 2013)

The Doctor said:


> No we are trying to decipher the story and get things straight. If the dealer can pass the blame on to somebody else then they will. No point going in with some mixed up old story and pics that say/show he picked the car up with compound dust all over it when he didn't.


As per my post above ^ 
at no point has the OP said he picked the car up with compound dust on it

although not expressed in the best way, he explains more than once that this dust is from the detailer - where the pics were taken, after working a section of the bonnet, 3 days after delivery of car

The dealer has already accepted responsibility - paying for the detailer & the bodyshop to fix the issues

OP my advice would be to reject the car
is it on finance? PCP? - get in contact with your finance company, explain the situation, say you want to reject


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

If the paint is that soft and that thin then its not fit for purpose and you ARE entitled to have a full bare metal respray.
Either that or correct it then ventureshield ( read vinyl wrap ) the whole thing. 
I have never come across paint that is THAT soft or THAT thin and that include new paint ( like a week old air dry celly.) 
Im not implying anyone is lying just trying to establish WHERE and WHEN the damage happened. Because there seem to be a few contradictions


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Lets not argue please or the thread will be locked .


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2014)

AllenF said:


> If the paint is that soft and that thin then its not fit for purpose and you ARE entitled to have a full bare metal respray.
> Either that or correct it then ventureshield ( read vinyl wrap ) the whole thing.
> I have never come across paint that is THAT soft or THAT thin and that include new paint ( like a week old air dry celly.)
> Im not implying anyone is lying just trying to establish WHERE and WHEN the damage happened. Because there seem to be a few contradictions


have a look at post 65 and 98 from Deniance, he has fisrt hand experience of this paint, honsetly this is not an isolated case


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

K the expensive route would be goto someone like 3m Glasurit or nippon.
Ask them to actually test the paint against the standards.
Then you have the ammunition you need to have the car full bare metaled with a decent leval of hardness and depth.
If they come back and say it is supersoft then it isnt fit for purpose ( IE to protect the underlying metal from decay) and enhance the optical appeal of the metal. In which case the manufacturer would have to foot the bill for the defects.
IF however they come back and say its within the standards then its going to hurt your pocket.
Maybe worth a punt giving one of the named paint people a ring and have a chat with them andd see what they say?

The biggest problem is the fact that due to the new tight emmission stuff they have taken SO much out of paint nowerdays ( take white interior gloss it used to cover in one or two coats nowerdays five litres and its stil patchy)


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## Deniance (Jun 28, 2008)

If i do keep my car, ill respray it or wrap it, only because of the comedy paint, i know on the 03 to 06 usa cars the paint is wafer thin, and as soft as butter, i first discovered the issue when correcting super swirls, rubbing the panel with a megs premium mf to remove polish would actually scratch the paint, also a small blemish rubbed with finger would scratch, and the stone chips on the front are pure comedy. Hope you do get a respray or what not because as said above, it really is not fit for purpose.


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## Raging Squirrel (Aug 28, 2013)

I saw on TV yesterday that a car is returnable if it is not fit for purpose or is of a very poor quality. They are obliged to rectify the problem at their expense, either by having the paint corrected or offering you a replacement car. the only issue is the replacement could be one that has the same amount of miles as yours when it goes back.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2014)

Raging Squirrel said:


> I saw on TV yesterday that a car is returnable if it is not fit for purpose or is of a very poor quality. They are obliged to rectify the problem at their expense, either by having the paint corrected or offering you a replacement car. the only issue is the replacement could be one that has the same amount of miles as yours when it goes back.


very difficult process to reject a car, main problem is that you have to stop using it, inform the dealer/finance that you are rejecting and possibly go to court, meantime you have to keep paying for a car you cant use


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## Rundie (Oct 2, 2007)

Reject it or you'll regret it.
Hire a car, after all you've gone for a 'premium brand' so hiring or buying an old banger shouldn't be an issue.
That paint has had the **** knocked out of it now and even if it looks reasonable once they've finished it'll still mark at the drop of a hat.


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## Davide82 (Sep 17, 2013)

Op it's actually very easy to reject a car

If you reject with the intention of Infiniti supplying a replacement car, then push for them to supply you with a hire car due to inconvenience - most marques will give you one of their demos (at least that's my experience with BMW & merc)

Tell the finance company the issue, they have a lot of bargaining power and will pester Infiniti to put it right 

You are legally allowed to reject if you are not happy with the condition an car is unfit for purpose, you would not have to go to court - especially as Infiniti have already accepted the damage!
Full respray on a brand new car fresh from the factory - I would not be happy with this outcome


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2014)

Davide82 said:


> Op it's actually very easy to reject a car
> 
> If you reject with the intention of Infiniti supplying a replacement car, then push for them to supply you with a hire car due to inconvenience - most marques will give you one of their demos (at least that's my experience with BMW & merc)
> 
> ...


the car has been rejected, finance company choose to believe what Infiniti tell them without actually viewing the car, they have said a few weeks ago they would not uphold the rejection, however the case is now re-opened and I am waiting for a reply from them this week hopefully 
I have no intention of accepting any kind of respray etc, Infiniti are digging their heels in claiming that they cant take the car back because technically is does not belong to them, its belongs to RCI finance, to get their attention I could just stop the payments and see what happens but on legal advice I have deciced to play by the book, its all about name and shame now and force them into doing the right thing


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## Davide82 (Sep 17, 2013)

Good luck with the outcome!
Rejection is definitely the way to go, just explain the situation, tell RCI Finance that Infiniti have already accepted responsibility for the damage, you are not happy with resprays / re-working the paint etc

you'll be fine!
let us all know the outcome


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## Rundie (Oct 2, 2007)

If, as you say, the Finance company don't want to play ball again then get an independent engineers report done.
I did this several years ago with a Mazda, the car was paid for cash so no finance involved but the dealer and Mazda UK were in bed together and I was getting nowhere. I paid £75 for a qualified independent motor/insurance engineer to inspect and provide a report, the rejection was based on them damaging a brand new car and repairing it (poorly) without telling us !! It involved 40% of the N/S being resprayed and the Engineer agreed it had de-valued the car by at least £2500.
Well, this was the stick to beat Mazda UK with, a third party expert opinion made things move very quickly. A new replacement car was ordered and perfect on arrival, all my costs were covered (including the insection fee) and £500 compo too.
Without the engineers opinion the dealer/finance/manufacturer will just hang it out and grind you down, going the next step will make them see how serious you are.
Better still if they now accept rejection without going through the above.


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2014)

Rundie said:


> If, as you say, the Finance company don't want to play ball again then get an independent engineers report done.
> I did this several years ago with a Mazda, the car was paid for cash so no finance involved but the dealer and Mazda UK were in bed together and I was getting nowhere. I paid £75 for a qualified independent motor/insurance engineer to inspect and provide a report, the rejection was based on them damaging a brand new car and repairing it (poorly) without telling us !! It involved 40% of the N/S being resprayed and the Engineer agreed it had de-valued the car by at least £2500.
> Well, this was the stick to beat Mazda UK with, a third party expert opinion made things move very quickly. A new replacement car was ordered and perfect on arrival, all my costs were covered (including the insection fee) and £500 compo too.
> Without the engineers opinion the dealer/finance/manufacturer will just hang it out and grind you down, going the next step will make them see how serious you are.
> ...


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## Rundie (Oct 2, 2007)

I didn't ask Mazda or the dealer, I just did it. Of course they will steer you away from getting a third party opinion as it will mean alot if it goes through the courts.
At sub £100 I was of the opinion that it would help show it wasn't me being fussy, of course Mazda UK still sent their paint expert, he just said how good the photos on the net were that I had taken to show the poor repairs :lol:

The Mazda expert wouldn't discuss the faults with me but went in an office with the MD of the dealership, half an hour later I went in and argued the new deal with no intervention from him.
I helped a guy on another forum with a similar issue, he kept holding out on getting an engineers report and once he did the same thing happened, the result for him was excellent, they see that you are deadly serious about taking it further.


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## Deanoecosse (Mar 15, 2007)

Have you tried posting your issue and photos on the Infiniti Great Britain Facebook page? I've seen that being very effective with a number of different companies


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Rundie raises some good points there.

Bekana.......when speaking with the dealer, just who have you spoken to in terms of rank, e.g. Sales manager, general Manager, Managing Director?

This is all boiling down to clever, persuasive negotiating skills now.

Apologies if I've missed this in one of your earlier posts.


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## Rundie (Oct 2, 2007)

S63 said:


> Rundie raises some good points there.
> 
> Bekana.......when speaking with the dealer, just who have you spoken to in terms of rank, e.g. Sales manager, general Manager, Managing Director?
> 
> Apologies if I've missed this in one of your earlier posts.


Another good point, I found the contact details of the MD of Mazda UK and got through to his office, the engineers report was e-mailed direct to them. 
As a 'CEO Complaint' it holds more clout, since then I've gone this route (direct to the UK MD) several times with other services/products and it never fails :thumb:


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Rundie said:


> Another good point, I found the contact details of the MD of Mazda UK and got through to his office, the engineers report was e-mailed direct to them.
> As a 'CEO Complaint' it holds more clout, since then I've gone this route (direct to the UK MD) several times with other services/products and it never fails :thumb:


In my three years working for a large dealership group I've witnessed many complaints from minor to major, a lot of jockeying and fart arsing around but if it goes to the top i.e. the dealership general manager (who hates getting involved) the issue is resolved post haste. On a very rare occasion that goes one step higher to the owner, when he says jump we ask how high.


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2014)

S63 said:


> Rundie raises some good points there.
> 
> Bekana.......when speaking with the dealer, just who have you spoken to in terms of rank, e.g. Sales manager, general Manager, Managing Director?
> 
> ...


I have been dealing with the centre manager, thats as high as you can go with the dealership, Infiniti customer service is a call centre and pretty useless, you can not get any contact details for anyone at Infiniti head office, everything either goes through the call centre or dealership, I have also tried to get contacts at Mana Premier, they are the franchise agents for Infiniti in the UK, again no luck
I have just today heard back from RCI finanace, they are not upholding the rejection!!!, the fact that the dealer has admitted on two occasions that the paint work is not up to standard has made no difference, they choose to beleive the lies that they have been told by the dealer claiming everything is ok, I have now got Infinitis attention on facebook, lets see if that changes their mind in anyway, as far as RCI go, my next step is to report them to the financial ombudsman, only problem is that it can months for them to lok at the case


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

BEKANA said:


> I have been dealing with the centre manager, thats as high as you can go with the dealership, Infiniti customer service is a call centre and pretty useless, you can not get any contact details for anyone at Infiniti head office, everything either goes through the call centre or dealership, I have also tried to get contacts at Mana Premier, they are the franchise agents for Infiniti in the UK, again no luck
> I have just today heard back from RCI finanace, they are not upholding the rejection!!!, the fact that the dealer has admitted on two occasions that the paint work is not up to standard has made no difference, they choose to beleive the lies that they have been told by the dealer claiming everything is ok, I have now got Infinitis attention on facebook, lets see if that changes their mind in anyway, as far as RCI go, my next step is to report them to the financial ombudsman, only problem is that it can months for them to lok at the case


I was about to say that the fact the two parties are in a "stalemate" situation you will need independent arbitration and in the Financial Ombudsman you have the right body.

I recommended this to a work colleague recently when they were receiving poor service from a solicitor, when the solicitor was alerted to the fact, things moved on rapidly, hopefully the same for you.:thumb:


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Could always email or CC this guy into the conversation with the dealer...

http://www.linkedin.com/profile/vie...701597,VSRPtargetId:33789589,VSRPcmpt:primary

Or there Northern Europe Communications Manager
[email protected] (from here http://www.infinitipress.eu/en-GB/Infiniti/Press-Releases/INFINITI-SETS-NEW-STANDARDS-IN-ST-ALBANS-/)

Going by that, perhaps, the Directors email is [email protected]


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2014)

m1pui said:


> Could always email or CC this guy into the conversation with the dealer...
> 
> http://www.linkedin.com/profile/vie...701597,VSRPtargetId:33789589,VSRPcmpt:primary
> 
> ...


thanks, I have sent him an email but no reply


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

BEKANA said:


> I have also tried to get contacts at Mana Premier, they are the franchise agents for Infiniti in the UK, again no luck


Your google skills are not up to much :wave:


Companieshouse.gov.uk search "Mana premier." to find the proper name "MANA PREMIERE AUTOMOBILES LIMITED"
 http://companycheck.co.uk "MANA PREMIERE AUTOMOBILES LIMITED" get the directors names "Lisa Ford" and "Hesham Al-mana"
Linkedin serch "Mana Premiere" and find "[email protected]" so you know the last part of the email address is "mpaukltd.co.uk"
 now google "mpaukltd.co.uk" and find s[email protected] (an IT employee - not someone who can sort your paint) so you know the format of the 1st part of their email.
Double check how my company handles hyphenated names in emails "[email protected]"
 and solve for X

[email protected]
and
[email protected]

You are welcome :thumb:

Oh and good luck!


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Why is everything so hard these days. Why can't one person just say yes let's get this sorted . Every one is happy.

Human beings are crazy things .


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2014)

Bero said:


> Your google skills are not up to much :wave:
> 
> 
> Companieshouse.gov.uk search "Mana premier." to find the proper name "MANA PREMIERE AUTOMOBILES LIMITED"
> ...


big big thanks for this mate:thumb::thumb::thumb:


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

BEKANA said:


> big big thanks for this mate:thumb::thumb::thumb:


No problem - I accept payment in all forms of tradable currrency, precious metals, sheckles and Jack Daniels. :thumb:


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## Rundie (Oct 2, 2007)

Bero said:


> Your google skills are not up to much :wave:
> 
> 
> Companieshouse.gov.uk search "Mana premier." to find the proper name "MANA PREMIERE AUTOMOBILES LIMITED"
> ...


Nice one mate, that's what I did, google them. All of a sudden it becomes a ceo complaint and they don't want to have their posh name tarnished with a dodgy outcome. Will take a few days for a reply becuase they are busy being important :thumb:


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

m1pui said:


> Could always email or CC this guy into the conversation with the dealer...
> 
> http://www.linkedin.com/profile/vie...701597,VSRPtargetId:33789589,VSRPcmpt:primary
> 
> ...


Yep, Steve Oliver is your man.:thumb:


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## Rundie (Oct 2, 2007)

S63 said:


> Yep, Steve Oliver is your man.:thumb:


Yep, go for it and stop messing around with the low life's.


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## DimSum (Aug 13, 2013)

That is the reason why if you buy brand new. You can ask them not to prep the car, thats what i did. Always fear something like that would happen.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

DimSum said:


> That is the reason why if you buy brand new. You can ask them not to prep the car, thats what i did. Always fear something like that would happen.


If you've read this thread thoroughly you would realise quite the opposite is true in this particular case.


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2014)

*infiniti paint*

Hi All
at last it looks like Infiniti have done the right thing, they have agreed to take the car back, still some points to confirm with them but as soon as I know all the details I will post it.
many thanks to all for their advice and help :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:
I really appreciate it.


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## Andyrat85 (Oct 7, 2013)

BEKANA said:


> Hi All
> 
> at last it looks like Infiniti have done the right thing, they have agreed to take the car back, still some points to confirm with them but as soon as I know all the details I will post it.
> 
> ...


Hopefully the replacement you get is in much better shape !!

I'm guessing it does happen that the odd car if just not finished right in the factory and sadly looks like you got that odd car


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## Hasan1 (Jul 1, 2011)

BEKANA said:


> Hi All
> at last it looks like Infiniti have done the right thing, they have agreed to take the car back, still some points to confirm with them but as soon as I know all the details I will post it.
> many thanks to all for their advice and help :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:
> I really appreciate it.


Good to hear things are moving in the right direction for you


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

BEKANA said:


> Hi All
> at last it looks like Infiniti have done the right thing, they have agreed to take the car back, still some points to confirm with them but as soon as I know all the details I will post it.
> many thanks to all for their advice and help :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:
> I really appreciate it.


That's a good result.

Are you getting a like for like replacement, or going elsewhere?


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2014)

Kerr said:


> That's a good result.
> 
> Are you getting a like for like replacement, or going elsewhere?


no mate, they are taking the car back, not an exchange, moving onto to something else


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## Rundie (Oct 2, 2007)

Good news mate, glad it's getting sorted.


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## Yowfailed (Mar 14, 2012)

German!


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

BEKANA said:


> no mate, they are taking the car back, not an exchange, moving onto to something else


What are you going for?


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2014)

Kerr said:


> What are you going for?


not sure, the whole new car thing has left a bitter taste, might not go for brand new


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## BRYHER (Aug 19, 2008)

So they aren't just minting it up for you?


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

BEKANA said:


> Hi All
> at last it looks like Infiniti have done the right thing, they have agreed to take the car back, still some points to confirm with them but as soon as I know all the details I will post it.
> many thanks to all for their advice and help :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:
> I really appreciate it.


That's really good to hear.:thumb:

Any idea what it was that got them to do a u turn?


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2014)

*infiniti*

Hi All
just an update on where we are, Infiniti have agreed to take the car back, I have to sign something to agree that they are not accepting anything is wrong with the car!!!, its just a gesture of goodwill to keep a customer happy.

To be honest I am beyond caring, it just shows what sort of people I am dealing with and I just want out.

Basically they are buying the car back from RCI finance and then who knows what will happen to it.

Two things made them sit up and take notice----facebook, after weeks and weeks of trying to get an answer from their customer service department, within 30 min of posting my issue they got in touch and started moving it in the right direction.

second thing, and to be honest I think this really pushed them, Auto Express are on the case and they have already informed Infiniti that regardless of the outcome they will be running the story.

Infiniti have said the cost to them of taking the car back is far less than what it could cost them from bad publicity, I have told them that had they been a bit more understanding from the start and changed the car things could look very different now, they agree and said maybe they should have moved quicker on it.

Anyway, time to move on, again a big thanks to all for comments,help and advice :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

A dealership will always put up a fight and resist attempts to accept a car rejection, you would be surprised at some of the reasons a customer chooses for grounds for rejection!

Seems to me they have done the right thing quite early in proceedings, very interesting what you say about Facebook....I loathe most forms of social networking but it obviously can work in a very positive way for the consumer.


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

I'm pleased its worked out for you in the end.Facebook is having a big impact on car manufacturers at the moment.The guy with the Porsche 911 certainly gained, and Porsche had to make a public statement over it and eat a lot of humble pie.Maybe it might make them think a bit harder about how they deal with customers in the future.I just wish John Lewis sold cars


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2014)

*infiniti paint*

Just had the photos done for auto express, not what I was expecting, thought it would be a quick photo and done, guy took about 70 pics, only strange request was that they had a photo of me beside the car with a tin of paint and a brush!!!, think they are just really trying to wind them up, now down to the editor which one they use, apparently going in next weeks edition.


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## Rundie (Oct 2, 2007)

Their settlement with you doesn't have any form of confidentiality clause attached ? 
I think it's great that Auto Express are doing a piece on it but hope it doesn't jeopardise the outcome.


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## Saj (Dec 24, 2012)

Well done and good results.

Facebook is very powerful when used correctly.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2014)

Rundie said:


> Their settlement with you doesn't have any form of confidentiality clause attached ?
> I think it's great that Auto Express are doing a piece on it but hope it doesn't jeopardise the outcome.


no, Infiniti press office have been in touch with Auto express, they know the story is running and will be making a statement to auto express, the only thing I am aware of, and this came from the dealer, not Infiniti, he thinks they will want me to sign something releasing them from any liability or admission that the car has any faults, they are taking it back just to keep me happy!!!!


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## Moggytom (Dec 28, 2011)

I had the sign a similar thing when I got a second new car out of seat after they kept damaging it ranging from cleaning with a still scrubbing brush to stabbing my dash board 6 times with a screw driver .... Glad to hear you can get rid  I just signed and now only see them service time and my car is left with cones round it haha

My dealer also got a bollocking of seat uk for how they treated me and was taken out of the running for dealer of the year 13


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

I guess we only hear complaints because people rarely come onto forums saying look at my perfect car the dealer is great bla bla bla so we get a negative spin on dealers /manufacturers.But having said that there is a general lack of pride in what is sold to the public and as I've experienced it myself some woeful customer service dished out by the motoring trade.I'm especially surprised at Infiniti, I thought they were trying to do a Lexus style customer experience, I've also only experienced excellent customer service from Japanese manufacturers, especially Toyota and Mazda so I really thought they would be up there with the best, it's normally the Germans that are poor in my experience.If I bought a phone, or a TV, or a computer and it was damaged, scratched etc on arrival the supplier wouldn't think twice about a replacement, why should a car be different, if anything because you've spent a lot of money the service should be better but it seems the reverse is true.I think its about time they started spending as much money on after sales as they do on marketing.


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## Moggytom (Dec 28, 2011)

They know they can't give our perfect cars mine told me that they couldn't provide one to my high standards which was an undamaged new car


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## Deanoecosse (Mar 15, 2007)

Facebook has its haters, but this is one of many examples I've seen lately where a customer has raised issues on a manufacturers facebook page and the complaint has been quickly dealt with. Facebook is a massive advertising medium where bad news travels fast, so manufacturers want to rectify a customers issue asap.
Question for the OP is, are you going to buy another Infinity?


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2014)

*infiniti*

in reply to lofty and deanoecosse

I am suprised at Infiniti, to start with it was all great, couldnt do enough to help, but when things started to go wrong they ran for cover, to be honest most of the problem lies with the Glasgow centre, or more to the point , the manager, I think he tried to avoid telling Infiniti the whole story in the hope that it would work out, nothing appeared to go back to customer service and his story never matched up with what I was saying, thats why RCI finance would not uphold the rejection, based on what the centre manager told them
RCI have now done a u turn, they are refusing to send their final report until next week, because of developments at Infiniti!!!!, they have also messed up with it, taking the centre managers word without ever asking to see the car was just crazy as far as I am concerned
would I buy another Infiniti---------never, and not because of the car, yes it had a problem with the paint but overall it was very good, I just could not deal with Infiniti and the way they go about things, their customer service is crap, I dont think they come close to Lexus, Merc etc
only when pushed into a corner they gave in, no offer of another car was made, two choices---either they got the car detailed again or they took the car back and we part company


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2014)

Moggytom said:


> They know they can't give our perfect cars mine told me that they couldn't provide one to my high standards which was an undamaged new car


the best quote from all of this was from the centre manager and the bodyshop manager---"its a black car, what do you expect, perfection", he wasnt amused when I pointed out it did not mention in their brochure not to buy a black car if you want perfection


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## BRYHER (Aug 19, 2008)

I have to disagree Infiniti at Leeds had some teething problems but all in all better than most garages I have visited (and I include a number of main dealers here), Me and my wife's experience
Michael


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## Moggytom (Dec 28, 2011)

BEKANA said:


> the best quote from all of this was from the centre manager and the bodyshop manager---"its a black car, what do you expect, perfection", he wasnt amused when I pointed out it did not mention in their brochure not to buy a black car if you want perfection


Simular to mine then .... Was you told at any point your attitude stinks ? I was haha


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Glad you're getting it sorted. I'm picking up a new merc on Wednesday and already nervous about what to expect. They're letting me prep it myself tho.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2014)

BRYHER said:


> I have to disagree Infiniti at Leeds had some teething problems but all in all better than most garages I have visited (and I include a number of main dealers here), Me and my wife's experience
> Michael


I'm sure that my experience is not a reflection on every Infiniti centre, but if you have to deal with Infinit custmomer services,or quality centre as they call it, you will experience all the problems I have had, the centre can only do so much before it is out of their hands.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2014)

Moggytom said:


> Simular to mine then .... Was you told at any point your attitude stinks ? I was haha


no, never got that comment but the centre manager did say, "what will it take for you to stop posting all these negative comments on facebook, what about all the good things we do"
I see it more as telling the truth than negative comments.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2014)

Nanoman said:


> Glad you're getting it sorted. I'm picking up a new merc on Wednesday and already nervous about what to expect. They're letting me prep it myself tho.


I am sure it will be fine, enjoy your new car:thumb:


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## Guest (May 4, 2014)

*infiniti paint*

Hi All

thats the car back with Infiniti, sad day as the car was great, just the paint issue and the dealer/Infiniti taking so long to sort it out and refusing to accept any liability, which is still the case, and of course I have to agree with them
got to say, still have a very bitter taste after this saga, had to sign agreeing we are in full and final settlement
as far as I am aware the car will be put back into their used car stock, probably not in Glasgow, take care if you are buying one!!!! 
thanks again for all the comments,advice and help :thumb:


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## C-220 (Feb 28, 2014)

Just read the full saga you went through. Glad you have now managed to reach a conclusion and walk away from it. It's absolutely shocking the way they have treated you from start to finish and to get you to sign a waver is just taking the ****. I hope they wallow in the myre which the AutoExpress article will create for them. 
Hope you find yourself something nice to make up for all the hassle.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Good result! Shows the power of social media - I have a twitter account and only use it for praising...and complaining about companies, it's remarkable the speed things can get fixed. Did you email the Mana directors? Did anything start happening after that?


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## Guest (May 6, 2014)

Bero said:


> Good result! Shows the power of social media - I have a twitter account and only use it for praising...and complaining about companies, it's remarkable the speed things can get fixed. Did you email the Mana directors? Did anything start happening after that?


I did email the directors, suprised one of them actually replied, only to say he was aware of the issue and it was being dealt with, things really started moving when auto express and facebook got involved, to be honest I dont use facebook, not a big fan of social media, but it was the only way to get them to do anything, sad really that you have got to name and shame a company on line before the offer to rectify a problem.


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## RD55 DUN (Dec 30, 2008)

Not read all of the pages, but the images on your first post are shocking!!

Glad that you seem to be getting somewhere now.


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## Matty77 (Nov 7, 2012)

Shocking photos and service from a so called premium brand. Just shows you eh? Thanks for sharing this sorry tale.


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