# How much correction available from a DA?



## Oberon

Hi guys,
I’m new to all this so apologies for the question however I wanted to ask before I mess up my new car.
I’ve just picked up a 2008 F430 in Rosso Corsa, and was fairly disappointed with the presentation of the car when I collected it on Monday. Whilst very clean I could see the car covered in light swirl marks when it was under the showroom lights. I asked for it to be corrected however they wanted to charge £500 for the privilege. (I’m actually beginning to think this was fairly reasonable).
I wanted to collect it as early as possible so thought I’d do it myself. I have a collection of Menzerna polishes and LC hydrotech pads that I can use with a DAS6-pro. I’ve done a few cars before but found even with the FG500 on a blue pad and using the “zenith” technique that there were still a large number of swirls present. (Red MX5). So, my very long winded question is this: Can I achieve a satisfactory level of finish with what I have, or should I step up to a rotary? Is a DA enough?
Or should I forget it, not risk it and get it done professionally? I live in Herts.
Thanks for your advice.


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## cossiecol

I would suggest that if you are not able to get a good level of correction using the DAS6-pro then your technique is the most likely fault and not the equipment. Once your technique is sorted then look to your pad/polish combo.

The DAS6-pro is able to get very good correction levels and if your technique is off I would not suggest you move up to a rotary.

If you're not sure about it all then I would check out the Studio section and see some of the detailers in your area.


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## Ultra

The very fact that you have asked such a question tells me that you maybe better off stepping away from the tools.


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## John_H

Oberon said:


> Hi guys,
> I'm new to all this so apologies for the question however I wanted to ask before I mess up my new car.
> I've just picked up a 2008 F430 in Rosso Corsa, and was fairly disappointed with the presentation of the car when I collected it on Monday. Whilst very clean I could see the car covered in light swirl marks when it was under the showroom lights. I asked for it to be corrected however they wanted to charge £500 for the privilege. (I'm actually beginning to think this was fairly reasonable).
> I wanted to collect it as early as possible so thought I'd do it myself. I have a collection of Menzerna polishes and LC hydrotech pads that I can use with a DAS6-pro. I've done a few cars before but found even with the FG500 on a blue pad and using the "zenith" technique that there were still a large number of swirls present. (Red MX5). So, my very long winded question is this: Can I achieve a satisfactory level of finish with what I have, or should I step up to a rotary? Is a DA enough?
> Or should I forget it, not risk it and get it done professionally? I live in Herts.
> Thanks for your advice.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd get it done professionally. You'd spent way more fixing a burn though if you had a minor mishap


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## macca666

Everyone has to learn somewhere and this is what the forum is about. Just because you're not getting the results you want doesn't mean you should give up :thumb:

As Cossiecol has pointed out you should be able to correct with your machine so I'd agree it will be down to technique. Have a good read of the many threads on here and the guides and practice practice practice is the advice I'd give. I personally wouldn't move to a rotary if I was you as if you can't master the DA then you're likely to cause more damage with a rotary than good.

Try to look and see if there are any classes locally to you which would help you as well.

You'll see varied responses here where some will say it's easy to cause damage with a DA but others will say it's very diffcult. I've read threads as well saying similar for a rotary. I've got both a DA and rotary and I'm definitely no expert but I've taken loads of advice on here and I'm careful when using them and I've not managed to burn through paint or make it any worse.

If you feel more comfortable going to get it done professionally there's threads on here listing local detailers or pro detailer magazine will give a list of approved detailers.

Good luck whatever you choose :thumb:


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## AndyN01

You have an MX5.

Likely to have soft paint (if it's like my Mazda 2) so I'm guessing that's the reson why you have swirls.

For the F430 it comes down to 2 choices:

1. Get it done profesionally. Check out the guys n girls on here because you really do need someone who will deliver the results. Remember, a "professional" is simply someone that gets paid for doing something. It doesn't mean they are good at it. The car wash guys on the supermarket car park are professionals - they get paid for adding swirls & scratches to your paintwork  

2. DIY. I'd be really working on technique by using the MX5 (or any others) as a bit of a test car until you're happy with the results you can get.

A F430 isn't really the sort of beast I'd be wanting to learn and practise on. I think the paint will be soft although happy to be corrected by those with more knowledge. Oddly enough I don't know too many people with F430's or, in fact, none.

Which Menz polishes?

My goto would be Glare. Use the search to see what you think and it can still be obtained from Phil (savvyfox) on ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Glare-polish-swirl-correction-set-of-compounds-and-sealant-for-cars-boats-etc/183111513495?hash=item2aa24bf597:g:QFUAAOSw9y1anlPA. I find Hydrotech's work well with Glare because of the completely "flat" face.

Alternatively Scholl S40 or Sonax Perfect Finish get good reports.

Looking forward to hearing and seeing how you get on.

Good Luck. :thumb:

Andy.


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## Oberon

AndyN01 said:


> You have an MX5.
> 
> Likely to have soft paint (if it's like my Mazda 2) so I'm guessing that's the reson why you have swirls.
> 
> For the F430 it comes down to 2 choices:
> 
> 1. Get it done profesionally. Check out the guys n girls on here because you really do need someone who will deliver the results. Remember, a "professional" is simply someone that gets paid for doing something. It doesn't mean they are good at it. The car wash guys on the supermarket car park are professionals - they get paid for adding swirls & scratches to your paintwork
> 
> 2. DIY. I'd be really working on technique by using the MX5 (or any others) as a bit of a test car until you're happy with the results you can get.
> 
> A F430 isn't really the sort of beast I'd be wanting to learn and practise on. I think the paint will be soft although happy to be corrected by those with more knowledge. Oddly enough I don't know too many people with F430's or, in fact, none.
> 
> Which Menz polishes?
> 
> My goto would be Glare. Use the search to see what you think and it can still be obtained from Phil (savvyfox) on ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Glare-po...513495?hash=item2aa24bf597:g:QFUAAOSw9y1anlPA. I find Hydrotech's work well with Glare because of the completely "flat" face.
> 
> Alternatively Scholl S40 or Sonax Perfect Finish get good reports.
> 
> Looking forward to hearing and seeing how you get on.
> 
> Good Luck. :thumb:
> 
> Andy.


Hi Andy,

I've got a couple of year old 250ml set from CYC. FG500, PF2500, PO106FA and PO85RD.
Blue, orange and crimson hydrotech pads.
Do you know anyone near St Albans that's any good?

I'll take a look and see who I can find.
One name that I did find was Roger Gale at TT Auto Detailing. Any thoughts on his services?

Piers

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## Robbi Hong Kong

I used Sonax Perfect Finish paired up with a Rupes Yellow and got an astounding finish on a customers F430 a few weeks ago........took 20 hours of polishing in total...


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## detailR

Oberon said:


> Do you know anyone near St Albans that's any good?
> 
> I'll take a look and see who I can find.


Hi Piers,

I'm just up the A5 from you in Milton Keynes


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## Oberon

Robbi Hong Kong said:


> I used Sonax Perfect Finish paired up with a Rupes Yellow and got an astounding finish on a customers F430 a few weeks ago........took 20 hours of polishing in total...


20 hours??? Crikey!! That's a lot of dedication and hard work. Do you have any pics?

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## Oberon

detailR said:


> Hi Piers,
> 
> I'm just up the A5 from you in Milton Keynes


Just had a look at your gallery! Nice work!!

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## justina3

Some cracking advise above as always, however i would have stuck to my guns and made the dealer sort it you havent purchased a cheap car is should be presented to you as you would expect.

Its a funny old world we live in we have some customers who will kick up a stink over next to nothing and others who take utter rubbish from dealers and just take it on the chin.

I had a 360 in the same red and it was a nightmare to look after would mark up with the best wash i could give it, anyway good luck hope it goes well for you which ever route you take,


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## Oberon

Doesn't look bad in this photo but up close under the lights it's shocking. Several people have said to me that the Ferrari paint marks really easily. Will a decent wax help prevent swirls or should I be really considering a ceramic coating? 
I'm thinking I'll have a crack with the DA over the weekend and see what I can achieve with that first.

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## AndyN01

I don't use Menz polishes - I'm sure you'll get excellent advice from those that know them really well - but from reading the CYC website:

FG500 - I think is too aggressive

PF2500 is medium cut - probably still too aggresive

PO106FA - looks promising - described as cut 3/10. 

PO85RD - looks like the best option -described as cut 2/10.

Compare this to Scholl S40 which is described as cut 1/10 and 

Sonax Perfect Finish which is cut 4/10 but the polish breaks down to give the end result.

All get really good reviews which suggests technique is the key - Junkman anyone. :thumb: 

I'd give the PO85RD a go on a "test" car and see if you can get the results from that.

Use the Crimson pad to start with. You can always go a little bit more by using the orange pad if "nothing" is happening.

Good Luck.

Andy.


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## Oberon

AndyN01 said:


> I don't use Menz polishes - I'm sure you'll get excellent advice from those that know them really well - but from reading the CYC website:
> 
> FG500 - I think is too aggressive
> 
> PF2500 is medium cut - probably still too aggresive
> 
> PO106FA - looks promising - described as cut 3/10.
> 
> PO85RD - looks like the best option -described as cut 2/10.
> 
> Compare this to Scholl S40 which is described as cut 1/10 and
> 
> Sonax Perfect Finish which is cut 4/10 but the polish breaks down to give the end result.
> 
> All get really good reviews which suggests technique is the key - Junkman anyone. :thumb:
> 
> I'd give the PO85RD a go on a "test" car and see if you can get the results from that.
> 
> Use the Crimson pad to start with. You can always go a little bit more by using the orange pad if "nothing" is happening.
> 
> Good Luck.
> 
> Andy.


What could possibly go wrong? 

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## chongo

The fact that you have done correction before with very little success on a mx5 with the blue pad and FG500 tells me your technique is all wrong:thumb:

But it not the end of the world. If you decide to do it yourself then pick a panel on the Mazda and use Menzerna 2500 (good for 1 step correction polish on soft paint) with the orange HT polishing pad. Just ensure you fully work the polish through its cycle, you will see the polish become transparent then it's broken down and hopefully corrected the paint, ensuring you have used some sort of panel wipe:thumb:

If that fails then it's 100% your technique :doublesho

Secondly if all fails contact Richard from DetailR and he will definitely sort you out:wave:


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## chongo

My mistake just didn't read the first post correctly :wall: and now seeing your car I would definitely go to a professional Detailer like DETAILR:thumb:

You could be dealing with difficult paint to correct :thumb:


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## [email protected]

Awesome car health to enjoy driving it.

Just my 2p worth but if I could afford to drive a car like that then I would pay to have it professionally detailed. There is a big difference in what a professional can achieve and what you can do yourself. If you wouldn't be happy painting it why would you be happy machine correcting it?


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## Ultra

chongo said:


> The fact that you have done correction before with very little success on a mx5 with the blue pad and FG500 tells me your technique is all wrong:thumb:
> 
> But it not the end of the world. If you decide to do it yourself then pick a panel on the Mazda and use Menzerna 2500 (good for 1 step correction polish on soft paint) with the orange HT polishing pad. Just ensure you fully work the polish through its cycle, you will see the polish become transparent then it's broken down and hopefully corrected the paint, ensuring you have used some sort of panel wipe:thumb:
> 
> If that fails then it's 100% your technique :doublesho
> 
> Secondly if all fails contact Richard from DetailR and he will definitely sort you out:wave:


If he try's and fails it then leaves less clear coat to put it right


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## AndyN01

Hence my liking for Glare. :buffer: :thumb:

Andy.


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## Ultra

AndyN01 said:


> Hence my liking for Glare. :buffer: :thumb:
> 
> Andy.


The modern take on glare is carpro essence with glare doing a better job of filling, i think the marketing hype that was used by glare moons ago done the brand no favours.


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## chongo

Ultra said:


> If he try's and fails it then leaves less clear coat to put it right


Look he would have to be removing ridiculous amounts of clear coat to have less clear coat left with 2500. He's probably going to remove less than 1um.

If it's not original paint which is in most cases it probably won't be knowing that make and model, then he will probably have plenty of clear to play with and for the future :wave:


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## Ultra

chongo said:


> Look he would have to be removing ridiculous amounts of clear coat to have less clear coat left with 2500. He's probably going to remove less than 1um.
> 
> If it's not original paint which is in most cases it probably won't be knowing that make and model, then he will probably have plenty of clear to play with and for the future :wave:


Yeah i know that, i'm far from green to correcting paintwork, the fact is you have no idea how much clear is on the car let alone how much the fella will remove 1um is 1um you can't put back therefore leaving less for the next bod that is seeking perfection :wave:


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## chongo

Ultra said:


> Yeah i know that, i'm far from green to correcting paintwork, the fact is you have no idea how much clear is on the car let alone how much the fella will remove 1um is 1um you can't put back therefore leaving less for the next bod that is seeking perfection :wave:


It's impossible to get perfection which you probably know that

The fact is if he does a test spot then he will find out if he can remove any of the SWIRLS to permanently remove defects you have to remove clear/paint:buffer: you have to start somewhere so a bit of negativity doesn't help the chap:wave:


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## milesdrive

Hi Oberon,

15 minutes from you is Azuri Car Care in Stevenage. ww.azuricarcare.co.uk
Owner is a Ferrari Concours winner with his own (previous) car. A lot of Ferrari experience, give Graham a call, he'll be happy to advise too. 488 owner did just that last Friday, brought his car up and had an honest opinion, he went away and doing his own thing.
Good on you for getting involved and having a go, machining often takes time, to learn well, through experience and even then we never stop learning. Good luck whichever way you choose


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## Oberon

Hi guys,
So I've thrown caution to the wind and I've started on the car today. Done all the prep and just working on the bonnet. Here's a before and after with the DA an orange hydrotech pad and some PF2500. Rubbish pics I'm afraid but I'm fairly pleased with the results already. I started off with PO106FA which made a big difference but not quite as much as the 2500. Thoughts?



















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## AndyN01

That's looking pretty good.

Well done.

Maybe you were simply more "comfortable" with using the DA by the time you switched to the 2500?

Perhaps you were working it better, more "tuned in" to what you were looking for and how the polish felt as you were using it?

Junkman - "......technique trumps product every time...." hence I'm thinking your technique was improving.

Take things nice and slowly and enjoy the results.

Good luck.

Andy.


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## petebak

Take it slowly and you can achieve the results, though I must admit when I get my Ferrari, hopefully when my pension kicks in at 55 in 2 years I will be giving it to my local detailers to do, as though I am more than capable it is such a special car I want more time spent on it than I could spare.

Once you have completed the polishing and refining, get it ceramic coated, I use Nanolex or Gtechic but I am sure others will chip in with their preferred choices.

Nice car and good luck


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## AndyN01

That's looking pretty good.

Well done.

You've gone about it in exactly the right way. 

You've started with a more "gentle" polish, not got the results you were looking for so gone a bit more "aggressive" and been much happier.

Maybe you were simply more "comfortable" with using the DA by the time you switched to the 2500.

Perhaps you were working it better, more "tuned in" to what you were looking for and how the polish felt as you were using it.

Or maybe it was simply that the swirls were a bit more of an issue than you first thought and needed a bit more cut to get the result?

Whatever, you've now gained valuable experience.

Remember always start with the least aggresive combination - exactly as you did :thumb: - it's easy to go more aggresive and potentially very expensive if you don't. 

Take things nice and slowly and enjoy the results.

Good luck.

Andy.


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## Oberon

Thanks for all the advice everyone!
I've been taking it slow and trying out a few things. It's definitely much much better but it's not perfect. If it was 100% swirled before I'd say it's now maybe 20-25%. The photos aren't showing some of the lighter imperfections but I'll leave it where it is for now, wipe it down then slap on the LSP.
I've got a couple of choices:

Swissvax Best of Show
Dodo Supernatural v2
Menzerna Powerlock sealant.

Thoughts?

I was thinking I could try powerlock topped with BOS but will the wax Bond with it?

Here's a pic after refining with SF4000 (PO106FA)



















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## stangalang

There is as much correction available as you can require. The only real draw back is that you cant work very well on isolated scratches, and it may take longer

Ferraris are often quite hard paint, or even better hard on some panels and sensitive on others. Plus with all the curves and crevices you will need an awful lot of pads, polishes, and backing plates of ALL sizes. And you will need to take your time and figure out whats best for each. Expect to spend a LONG time doing it if you want good results though


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## Oberon

stangalang said:


> There is as much correction available as you can require. The only real draw back is that you cant work very well on isolated scratches, and it may take longer
> 
> Ferraris are often quite hard paint, or even better hard on some panels and sensitive on others. Plus with all the curves and crevices you will need an awful lot of pads, polishes, and backing plates of ALL sizes. And you will need to take your time and figure out whats best for each. Expect to spend a LONG time doing it if you want good results though


So when do you decide you've done enough? And where do I go from here? Do I continue with the orange pad and pf2500 and keep doing it until I reach more correction, I do I step up the pad then polish? From 10am today I've only managed to wash, Clay and polish the bonnet and wings. I can barely move... I don't know how you lot do it. I'll be back on it in the morning.

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## chongo

Oberon said:


> So when do you decide you've done enough? And where do I go from here? Do I continue with the orange pad and pf2500 and keep doing it until I reach more correction, I do I step up the pad then polish? From 10am today I've only managed to wash, Clay and polish the bonnet and wings. I can barely move... I don't know how you lot do it. I'll be back on it in the morning.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When you have finished it or when you are happy with the results :thumb: and by going by your pictures of the bonnet you've done an excellent job:thumb:

Carry on with 2500 and polishing pad, but you might come up to a panel that might not correct the same as the last one this can happen so don't worry you may need to give it another couple of light passes.

For your LSP I would use BOS on that colour :argie:

Good luck and put some more pictures up as you go on:wave:


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## Oberon

Ok so I've just finished with the SF4000 on a crimson hydrotech pad. It's not perfect but it looks so much better. The colour in this light looks amazing. Just got the LSP to go. 
If I wipe down with IPA will I still need to use a pre wax cleanser? (I'm guessing not) I have lime prime lite.

Btw, I bought some Swissvax seal feed. Left it on over night and buffed off this morning. Looks incredible! Highly recommended.


























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## milesdrive

Oberon......if you've improved the finish compared to what was there before (looks it to me), then it's a WIN. Car looks fantastic.........now enjoy driving it


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## Oberon

milesdrive said:


> Oberon......if you've improved the finish compared to what was there before (looks it to me), then it's a WIN. Car looks fantastic.........now enjoy driving it


Drive it? You're joking aren't you? After all that work I've put in.... 

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## milesdrive

did I say drive it..............I should have said admire it ;-)


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