# Removing silicone from paintwork completely



## Mondeo220 (Apr 19, 2010)

Yes, 100% removal, enough to repaint! 

Any suggestions for products that will remove silicone used in typical wax polishes used by valeters on used cars?

Its a pain to remove, i normally use slow panel wipe degreaser, whilst the panel is still wet, removing with another cloth.


----------



## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

Im sure someone more qualified will be along soon (painting background) but silicones can be a real pain in the ****. To the point that it seems like no matter how much you try, it wont shift.

Id be using IPA wipes. use as many as poss to stop spreading it.


----------



## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Im not sure there is such a thing as 100% removal, I know getting it remotly removed is a royal pita but how do paint shops get round it?


----------



## Mondeo220 (Apr 19, 2010)

Beau Technique said:


> Im not sure there is such a thing as 100% removal, I know getting it remotly removed is a royal pita but how do paint shops get round it?


Short answer to that is they dont. The ones i used to see, even the well respected ones, never bothered panel wiping before prepping, only during and after prep just before painting.

Reality is that most cars never see paint protection of any kinds, the ones that i do are prepared for sale using something that has a very high silicone content. Its a job to know if you have removed it fully, all you can do is keep cleaning.

I sometimes use thinners on well cured paint because that really strips into any layers of silicone and leaves the panel very 'dry' afterwards, i then do my preparation work.

On most occasions its slow panel wipe, spray the affected area, wipe firmly with one cloth, then remove with a fresh one before it dries, otherwise it just shifts it from one part of the panel to the next. During prep i give it the odd wipe with a fast panel-wipe, once ready for paint and masked i use a alcohol and water-based cleaner and finally fast panel wipe again. I use specific spirit wiping towels designed to absorb better than paper towels.

9-10 you don't get a problem, but it only takes one fisheye in a job to annoy me, sadly because i paint outside its not possible to stop airbourne contaminants causing a problem before the lacquer has cured but most problems can be fixed post-painting by wet flatting, sometimes its amazing the standard you can achieve outside, putting some bodyshops to shame!

If a panel is dirty i use G101 diluted before anything else, that seems remarkably strong even at 50-1 and enough to streak dark colours the second it hits the panel. This isnt an issue if your repainting it of course.


----------



## itshowiplay (Oct 21, 2010)

Siroflex - SX PVCu Solvent cleaner. - Stinks to high hell, bit like thinners but not as harsh, also makes great parts washer fluid.

Give it a try, you will be impressed with how much it takes of and how easily. Wont harm th paint either, I use it for tough bug and tar spotting and also on our rally car, which usually needs a pannel or 4 repainting after Dale has raced it.

Hope this helps, Cheers.


----------



## pegs (Oct 28, 2009)

Mondeo220 said:


> Yes, 100% removal, enough to repaint!
> 
> Any suggestions for products that will remove silicone used in typical wax polishes used by valeters on used cars?
> 
> Its a pain to remove, i normally use slow panel wipe degreaser, whilst the panel is still wet, removing with another cloth.


Dont laugh but my paint sprayer friend has a paint booth in a dealership which was once a valeting bay! he had probs all the time. He then found a silicone agent which u add to paint and laquar and it pritty much eliminated the silicone. He only needed to slightly de-nib now and then. If your interested i will ask him what its called and where he gets it from


----------



## Mondeo220 (Apr 19, 2010)

pegs said:


> Dont laugh but my paint sprayer friend has a paint booth in a dealership which was once a valeting bay! he had probs all the time. He then found a silicone agent which u add to paint and laquar and it pritty much eliminated the silicone. He only needed to slightly de-nib now and then. If your interested i will ask him what its called and where he gets it from


I have various flowing additives if needed, Mipa anti-silikon, Level-IT which i've not yet used but the Mipa works well.


----------



## Mondeo220 (Apr 19, 2010)

A claybar is meant to be effective at removing contamination, i often use it for my blend area as polishing is minimal afterwards, is it really that good at removing silicone?


----------



## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

Well, use a silicone remover  You should be able to get it from most painters, 1Z also do one(called Acrysol), I think autobrite retail the 1Z range. 

I currently use 1Z's, and it's removing more than just IPA/Demineralised water(50/50). 

Most painters here in Denmark use a silicone remover as a wipedown before painting. 


Kind regards,

Ebbe


----------



## VeeDubEuro (Aug 31, 2009)

hmmm might be a chance ill have to try this out... got some huge chunks missing out of my golfs bumper/rear quarter/roof/drivers door..... *sigh* hate dealers



VeeDub


----------



## Mondeo220 (Apr 19, 2010)

Ebbe J said:


> Well, use a silicone remover  You should be able to get it from most painters, 1Z also do one(called Acrysol), I think autobrite retail the 1Z range.
> 
> I currently use 1Z's, and it's removing more than just IPA/Demineralised water(50/50).
> 
> ...


I do!! But its not always 100% effective unless you use it a few times.


----------



## Mondeo220 (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm currently looking at using the current process for my prep.

1)Spray G101 onto the panel, dilution rate to be confirmed. Agitate with a used Ultrafine scotchbrite pad, rinse and wipe dry.

2)Apply slow panel wipe with the two cloth method.

3)Begin prepping process

4)Once prepped, clean with dedicated waterbased degreaser, two cloths again.

Final step before painting, use a 'fast' panelwipe, off we go.

Currently i skip the first stage, just panel wipe, unless the panel is dirty. But i want to add the extra process, as doing it different ways and with different products should be more effective. I know a few would just accept a fisheye defect in even the most minor repairs, i dont, it has to be as close to perfect as possible to be good enough for me, and then i can be sure the customer will be happy too.


----------



## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

Finish Kare Decontamination system and Iron Cut can do it
Silicone remover sprays from all the best paint companies. Glasurit, Sikkens, Standox Etc

I use all these already and dont use any silicone in my shop. I work inside restoration shops paint booths (polishing) and they dont have any problems.
This is often done because they dont have a polishing bay as such and I need a certain temperature and good lighting for my glass based treatments
The hotter the temp, the better it works


----------



## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

*The Removal of Silicone Polymers *

Polishing is a mechanical process; silicone is a product that will resist removal by mechanical abrasion, as it causes the abrasive to hydroplane. When using an abrasive polish on surfaces that have been previously treated with a silicone-based product, a smear may result and any applied products may not form an adequate bond to the paint surface.

It is important to understand why this occurs.

a) Cause - polishing is a mechanical process; silicone is a product that has been designed not to be removed by mechanical abrasion, as it causes the abrasive to hydroplane. When using an abrasive polish on surfaces that have been previously treated with a silicone-based product, a smear may result and any applied products may not form an adequate bond to the paint surface, thereby negatively affecting durability.

b) During polishing, the silicone mixes with oxidised paint and polish abrasive residue that is being removed from the surface to form a smear. These products and or paint/ polish debris can be removed with a wipe-down process or a specific silicone remover, it will probably take more than one attempt

Can you remove silicone from a clear coat completely? [It is impossible to remove silicone from a painted surface without using a chemical process so aggressive that it dissolves the paint. Wax and grease removers will chemically remove one layer of silicone off at a time but are unable to completely remove all the silicone.

[Tests at Menzerna using a spectroscope showed the layers become thinner but the silicone remains. Removing silicone completely can take place over time and involves a lengthy process of oxygen, chemicals, time and sunlight[/I] Dr Michael Hauber - Menzerna

When an abrasive polish works on the surface of paint it uses aluminium oxide spheres, suspended in oil / water emulsion that provides surface lubrication and a mechanical process to abrade the surface of the paint down to the level of the bottom of the scratch. Silicon cannot be removed this way; it can be removed by a chemical means and is designed to resist being removed by mechanical means. Instead the silicon mixes with the blend of paint dust and polish powder and it creates a smear on the paint.

We should differentiate between swirl marks in the silicone layer and swirl marks in the paint underneath. Some polishes may appear to remove the swirl marks in the paint but are really only working on the layer of silicone. So the swirl marks in the paint itself remain unaffected by the polishing and reappear after a few weeks, as the silicone is being removed by time.

*Preparation-* If the car has been treated with silicone, use a wax and grease remover to remove as much of the silicone as possible before polishing. You will not be able to remove it all but it helps.

•	Hi-Temp's Prep Wash - to prepare a paint surface for polishing, compounding, wax and / or polymer sealant application (especially if changing from a wax to a polymer product) this is a water-based paint cleaner designed to remove all traces of silicone, oil, and buffing residue from any exterior paint surface

•	DuPont PrepSol II™ or Final-Klean - spray onto a 100% cotton or a micro fibre towel and clean the surface, DuPont now also sells the Sonatra Line, which are essentially wipes/towels, pre-moistened with either Prep-Sol or Final-Klean, ideal for all high tech wiping applications, excellent in use both wet and dry with high absorbent capacity

•	Dow Corning® OS-2 Silicone Cleaner and Surface Prep Solvent is a volatile methyl siloxane (VMS) fluid that is compatible with a wide range of materials. It will not harm most substrates, including plastics. OS-2 can be used to remove silicone-based; greases, oils, car wax and car care products, will soften cured silicones to facilitate removal

•	SONAX Premium Class Paint Cleaner is a Silicone-free paintwork cleaner that safely and effectively degreases the paint surface and removes smear films caused by silicone, oil and wax deposits, also ideal for the care and maintenance of scratch-resistant ceramic clear coats. It will considerably increase the durability of a follow-up sealing or protecting treatment

•	Wurth Clean Solve is a fast acting cleaner and solvent that will not leave a film residue. It will quickly remove wax, tar, gum, grease, paint overspray, adhesive, oil, and silicone. It can be used on a variety of surfaces including: base coat, clear coat, aluminium, fibreglass, glass, fabrics and vinyl.

•	Pre-Kleano is a silicone, wax, grease, tar and road-oil dissolving solvent. Used to; - remove contamination from existing paint films, slightly penetrate existing paint for good adhesion of subsequent coats and clean sanded OEM finishes for repainting.

FWIW- I've never had any success using FK 1119 to remove silicone


----------



## dooka (Aug 1, 2006)

if you struggle, you can use some siliseal in the paint, should help mask the silicone and prevent fisheye..


----------



## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

I love you TOGWT. Another great article
This is the exact reason why I used Finish Kare Decon system and still use silicone removers from standox, glasurit etc prior to polishing

One ingredient in my own decon system gravitates into the pores and removes a tonne of impurities. It definately works as it is used prior to painting/blending in many crash shops


----------



## Mondeo220 (Apr 19, 2010)

qstix said:


> if you struggle, you can use some siliseal in the paint, should help mask the silicone and prevent fisheye..


Ironically, after a day of fisheye free painting (been using G101 first), a friend of mine started up his diesel car and parked it within 10 feet of me painting. I've yet to see a perfectly clean diesel and unfortunately the particles from the diesel combustion ended up in my first coat of lacquer. So i used Level-IT as directed, dusting over the affected areas and then a full finishing coat and it worked brilliantly, didnt expect it to work that well but got me out the crap, and my friend got a good telling off too.

I prefer not to use any additive to the lacquer but sometimes you dont know if there is going to be a valeter spraying silicone or slicking the tyres around the site, or a trade car gets started up and redlined, oh lovely, more stinky oily exhaust fumes.


----------



## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

drives us all nuts down under. Painters hate almost all detailer except me. 
Polished and coated cars with all my products in their booths and not given them any problems


----------

