# Isocyanate free 2k?



## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

My manta is not far off being ready for its respray. I was going to hand it off to a sprayer to do for the sole reason that I'd prefer a proper paint on it than cellulose as I dont want to use 2k paint cos of the isocyanates. Discovered 2k paint that claims is isocyanate free, and I wondering if its any use.
Usually when something is removed it ceases to be anywhere near as good.
Like Diet Irn Bru :lol:
Anyone used, or know anything about, the stuff?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Why the worry about isocyanates?


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

Because they are poisonous, I dont have, nor want to, splash out on airfed mask and an extra compressor and the garage is in a residential neighbourhood.


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

There's not such a paint that's truly free, primer and clear coat also contain them hence waterbased paint were born to begin to combat these isocyinate.

Best was around your issue shug is get a quit from a bodyshop and get your save on. At least it will be done safely and properly and you will have a guarantee with the paintwork.


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## kk1966 (Aug 8, 2007)

Also worth bearing in mind with 2k laquer is that i you are doing it at home you will need to keep the enviroment dust free as it doesnt flash off as quick as 1k unless you start adding exra accelerators etc into it. But then 1k doesnt have any real substance to it which is why its never as good as a bodyshop job generally....

Iso-free laquer is generally what SMART repairers etc use where the enviroment is an issue to them whilst working


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## mitchelld (Jan 14, 2012)

belt the 2k onto it, ive a non airfed mask, apparently it filters out iso's hence why i bought it , send it down to ayrshire il give ye a good price?


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

No such thing as isocyonate free 2k. If your that worried then best option would be get a bodyshop to do it.


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

mitchelld said:


> ive a non airfed mask, apparently it filters out iso's hence why i bought it ,


'apparently' isn't really good enough when comes to my long term health 

If you read up about ISO's it really is nasty stuff that's oudourless (therefore you'll never know you're breathing it in) and it can't be filtered using a non airfed mask. 
That's why HSE say when using ISO you should only use airfed.

But .. Hey - it's your life!


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

mitchelld said:


> belt the 2k onto it, ive a non airfed mask, apparently it filters out iso's hence why i bought it , send it down to ayrshire il give ye a good price?


Those masks don't filter ISO's mate best get an airfed you won't believe the difference to your lungs! :thumb:


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

3M do an isocyante filter for cartridge masks.


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

bigmc said:


> 3M do an isocyante filter for cartridge masks.


Ive used both 3m and devilbiss and neither are 100% great when it comes to painting 2k in a garage or shed.

For £150-250 you can be breathing fresh air with no health issues in later life, isocyanates can enter your body through your eyes and skin incase you guys weren't aware of that.


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

bigmc said:


> 3M do an isocyante filter for cartridge masks.


I wouldnt trust those one bit, I have tried both in the past never again not worth it.
I wouldn't paint anything with out using an airfed mask. As moosh said it can get in your eyes, through the pores in your skin, don't think people realise just how nasty isocyonates actually are. Which would you rather do spend £200 on an airfed mask or have isocyonate poisoning putting your health/life at risk.


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

bigmc said:


> 3M do an isocyante filter for cartridge masks.


I'd be interested if they do :thumb:
Any searches I've done on 3m (or elsewhere) has said 'ISO = air fed recommended'.
Could you post a link please.


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

Through the eyes and skin is a bit of a myth .... but why risk gunging up yer eyes.


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

Even if a filter mask did work, I cant really wander round the neighbours asking them to wear a mask while I spray....


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

Shug said:


> Even if a filter mask did work, I cant really wander round the neighbours asking them to wear a mask while I spray....


Good man :thumb:
It's been suggested on other forums, (and maybe on here too) that 2k shouldn't be used at home because of the dangers to neighbours and passers by .... but someone who's a bit stupid will always reply that it's a kill joy HSE statement to make and that what they do in their garage is up to them and no-one else.


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## nighthawk (Feb 10, 2012)

But most Smart repairers spray 2k don't they? Hardly ever see them with a mask on!!


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

squiggs said:


> Through the eyes and skin is a bit of a myth .... but why risk gunging up yer eyes.


It's not a myth, I've done enough fibreglass work to know it's not. As for the mask, the 3M organic compound cartridges that I keep are designed for all organic compounds and work with toluene diisocyanate.


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

http://solutions.3m.co.uk/3MContent...assetId=1180611010957&blobAttribute=ImageFile

I hope the above link works.
On page 16 ISO's is listed. The recommended filter = SA. SA = supplied air = air fed


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

squiggs said:


> Through the eyes and skin is a bit of a myth .... but why risk gunging up yer eyes.


Defo not a myth mate, ive been ill for weeks from iso poisoning before and its like the flu but nothing really shifts it. A friend of mine had to give up painting all together because eat time he did a paint job he was sick a short while later.


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

bigmc said:


> It's not a myth, I've done enough fibreglass work to know it's not. As for the mask, the 3M organic compound cartridges that I keep are designed for all organic compounds and work with toluene diisocyanate.


Those types of masks are fine for fibre glass work and carbon fibre but not painting because of the volume and concentration of fumes that are created.


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

At end of day mate spend 5 minutes on Google researching Iso and 2k paints you'll see it's a killer.
If you want to paint it then you do so but at your own risk. People have died from this kind of paint.

Air fed mask with external extraction and full body suit and mask at a minimum.


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

moosh said:


> Defo not a myth mate, ive been ill for weeks from iso poisoning before and its like the flu but nothing really shifts it. A friend of mine had to give up painting all together because eat time he did a paint job he was sick a short while later.


Was this with an airfed but without eye protection and/or being fully suited?


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

Shug said:


> My manta is not far off being ready for its respray. I was going to hand it off to a sprayer to do for the sole reason that I'd prefer a proper paint on it than cellulose as I dont want to use 2k paint cos of the isocyanates. Discovered 2k paint that claims is isocyanate free, and I wondering if its any use.
> Usually when something is removed it ceases to be anywhere near as good.
> Like Diet Irn Bru :lol:
> Anyone used, or know anything about, the stuff?


I Didn't want to spray 2k in the workshop here originaly so I went for a single pack paint on the truck.

Used the same combination filter I use for spraying 2k epoxy and 2k gelcoat on boats.

Used a cellulose undercoat.










Waited 2 weeks, sanded ALOT.

And a cellulose topcoat.










Waited 2 days and the paint creased everywhere.........:tumbleweed:

Got a 'bit depressed' taking it back down to bare metal and sanding ALOT AGAIN.

And sprayed it with an epoxy iso free 2k undercoat.










I Used the same combination filter I use for spraying 2k epoxy and 2k gelcoat on boats.

Just topcoated today with a 2k olive drab satin with the same mask....

Heaven dont deserve me anyway.


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

xJay1337 said:


> At end of day mate spend 5 minutes on Google researching Iso and 2k paints you'll see it's a killer.
> If you want to paint it then you do so but at your own risk. People have died from this kind of paint.
> 
> Air fed mask with external extraction and full body suit and mask at a minimum.


Hes not spray painting the Titanic mate.


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## Ghaf (May 10, 2011)

Isocyante free lacquer is great as a smart repair but I have used it and the finish and shine is not all great to standard lacquer with accelerator works great no need for machine polishing


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

J.D said:


> Hes not spray painting the Titanic mate.


Doesn't matter.
Spraying a single panel is enough, especially if you regularly spray things (every weekend or something).

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14051


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

squiggs said:


> Was this with an airfed but without eye protection and/or being fully suited?


Not quiet, I was using a devilbiss face mask, paper suit, no gloves and no goggles.

Felt horrendous for days after its horrible, that was when I was doing may be one small job so I didn't feel I needed the clean air and ppe. Boy was that a wrong move.

Now got a full face devilbiss pro mask, best 250 quid I've ever spent and they good there value well.


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

Surprised and yet horrified to hear that mate ..... just goes to show how suddenly and badly ISO can effect us (humans) and that it's just not worth taking risks.


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

squiggs said:


> Surprised and yet horrified to hear that mate ..... just goes to show how suddenly and badly ISO can effect us (humans) and that it's just not worth taking risks.


When I worked in the bodyshop before and painted in booths it wasn't ever an issue but private garage/barn/shed spray jobs are an entirely different type of work, there's no filtering or vacuum to pull the paint fumes away so they just build up and stick to your skin, they say linseed oil is a good thing to use on your face if you dnt have a full face shield. I have never tried it personally but should have a few times as I had to use thinners on my face to get the over spray off, when I painted an Orange rally car I looked like I had a spray tan gone wrong :lol:

It's not worth the risk and I'm speaking from experience of having the och I'll be fine Outlook! I would say I defo have less of a lung capacity sadly hence the airfed mask is a must.


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

I use this mask here :thumb:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Devilbiss..._Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item19ca87743b


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## 3R PROJECT (Jul 14, 2012)

How is he going to use the air fed mask and a spray gun connected to it if has anything less than a 5hp 400lt compressor without a drop in pressure while painting . Any unit that produces less than 600 lt/min will not work .


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

3R PROJECT said:


> How is he going to use the air fed mask and a spray gun connected to it if has anything less than a 5hp 400lt compressor without a drop in pressure while painting . Any unit that produces less than 600 lt/min will not work .


Why a 400L compressor?! I paint with a 200L compressor and have the air fed mask running of that whilst painting no probs, I use hvlp devilbiss guns and the mask has a warning sound if the pressure drops which is ideal.

I think the outcome of this thread is to let people know the dangers of 2k paints and it then let's them make a decision. Personally I'd have her booked into a paintshop and keep my health if I was in a similar situation to the OP.


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

So scooting back to the original question,  I guess isocyanate free 2k aint that good?


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

Shug said:


> So scooting back to the original question,  I guess isocyanate free 2k aint that good?


Haha eh nope...

That will be waterbased paint and you can't paint that in a shed with easy and it still requires 2k clear.


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## steelej (Jan 3, 2007)

To bring this one back up again, i've just done a repair with Jawal's non iso 2k clear, i was impressed by it. Write up of the repair below

Last week my good lady presented me with below, she had an argument with a fence and the fence won.










A little closer look and you can see that it's quite deep and it's also slightly dented the door









So having been messing around lately with a bit of painting just on scrap panels up to this point i thought **** it, i'm having a go at this, worst case i need to get it done professionally anyway so I really had nothing to lose by having a go. Got some paint ordered up and dug out the sandpaper and filler.

Sanded everything back and filled the gouge. So far so good 









Next stage was sanding down the filler then priming the area for paint.









With the area primed it was ready for me to get tooled up ready for painting, good look isn't it 









First coat of paint, again, so far so good.









And with 4 coats of paint and 3 coats of clearcoat it's looking pretty good.









All that was left to do now was leave it for a couple of days to fully cure then wetsand it flat and polish









And finally a couple of pics of the finished job.


















It's far from a perfect job but the car is far from perfect anyway, all in it probably took about 20 hours and the only cost apart from my time which is free was 26quid for paint, reckon i'd have been looking at a few hundred quid from a bodyshop. Pretty pleased with the result 

John.


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