# ONR W&W and D114



## lowejackson

I was unsure if I should start a new thread or tag this onto one of the other threads about rinseless washing and so (obviously) went for a new post.

First of all I need to thank Tosh for sending me some Megs D114 and OPT ONRWW. This is also in addition to the Ech20 he sent me recently. This thread is simply testing the Megs and Optimum in rinseless mode.

Having been a happy ONR user for many years I was excited about the Megs version. Fist thing which struck me was foam in the bucket, not huge amounts like a traditional shampoo but vastly more than I am used to. It is hard to describe but D114 seems to sit on the paint in a different way to ONR, it seems to lay flat on the paint where ONR kind of beads a little.

Not sure there is any significance to this and maybe just reflects a different chemical approach. 

Washing the paint was just as easy and effectiveness as ONR or Ech20, the liquid feels slick, not as slick as Ech20 but more than enough to inspire confidence. Of course Ech20 leaves behind some protection, D114 does not.

One small strange issue was as the D114 started to dry on one of the plastic panels, it did seem to create strange spots. These were very easily removed with a quick wipe of the sponge, no idea as to the significance of this but I mention it just to be transparent.

There was no point whilst washing did I think ONR did something better or I wanted to reach for ONR. This is just one of those products which feels right and I could happily live with, and I am biased towards Optimum products. All of which leads me to my final thought on D114.

Just in case there is anyone from Meguiars reading this and to echo the points made on the American forums. Why on earth have you stopped making this product?

The green No Rinse Wash & Wax was next up. It did have the slight advantage in that it immediately followed a fresh wash with D114 and so the paint was nice and clean.

I was not sure what to expect with ONRWW as ONR was so familiar to me. The green liquid looked stronger than the pale blue with ONR but rather like D114, it stayed on the paint in a different way to ONR. My thoughts whilst washing was this is just like washing a fresh waxed car which I guess that is exactly what I was doing.

The ONRWW did not feel as slick as Ech20, which is probably the nearest competitor, in the bucket but did feel slicker on the paint. It has been a very overcast day so I cannot really comment on any haziness like the CarPro has although I left one of the windows unbuffed so I can check it tomorrow.

I enjoyed the green ONR but not sure I would buy some. Not because it does anything wrong but I already own OCW and this takes me 5 minutes to do the car. However, if I was looking for a very easy to use rinseless shampoo & wax then it is an easy solution.

As for cleaning power, all the solutions were used at their recommended rates and I did a very unscientific test on one of the doors. A section was wiped clean with each product and then tested by using some Serious Performance Paint Cleaner on some makeup remover pads. The amount of dirt on each of the pads seemed to be roughly the same. Therefore my view is they all seem to clean about the same.

However, one of the interesting areas for D114 is the cleaning power can be increased by reducing the dilution ratios. I have not tested it but will report back when I have.

In summary, I enjoyed using these products and it is interesting to see different solutions to achieving the same results. For anyone who does not fancy ONR then D114 must be worth considering but don't hang around as once the stocks have gone they will not be getting any more.

ONRWW is a nice product for consumers who want to 'wash 'n wax' and give some UV protection to their paint


----------



## A&J

ONR wash&wax is a great product if you wash the car every week. The beading it leaves behind resembles a freshly waxed car. But that protection is short lived...3-7 days at max. 

Other than that I find it the same as standard ONR (cleaning power, lubricity). It also doesnt haze like Ech2o. It sort of acts like the standard ONR but with added protection.

Nice review and honest opinion on the two products Lowejackson


----------



## alan hanson

looking forward to getting back into ONR after 3-4 years and getting teh car clean in 15-20 mins without taking it out the garage  just cant remember if it was always as expensive as it was back then?

O and deciding on wash media as back then it was the zymol sponge.


----------



## A&J

alan hanson said:


> O and deciding on wash media as back then it was the zymol sponge.


It still is a good option. Any hi quality sponge is perfect for ONR.


----------



## lowejackson

Today I was using the Serious Performance pad http://www.seriousperformance.co.uk/Products,70,toView_999.html or alternatively I use a cheap noodle mitt. The Big Red Sponge from Optimum looks great but is frighteningly expensive


----------



## lowejackson

A&J said:


> ONR wash&wax is a great product if you wash the car every week. The beading it leaves behind resembles a freshly waxed car. But that protection is short lived...3-7 days at max.
> 
> Other than that I find it the same as standard ONR (cleaning power, lubricity). It also doesnt haze like Ech2o. It sort of acts like the standard ONR but with added protection.
> 
> Nice review and honest opinion on the two products Lowejackson


My choice between ONR and the green stuff will always be for the standard stuff, not sure I want wax on carpets or leather. Shame the wax is not very durable but as you say, for a weekly washer, it is a good product


----------



## Andysp

lowejackson said:


> Today I was using the Serious Performance pad http://www.seriousperformance.co.uk/Products,70,toView_999.html or alternatively I use a cheap noodle mitt. The Big Red Sponge from Optimum looks great but is frighteningly expensive


Thanks for the great review.

I'm in the process of buying my first ONR within the next week,regarding the Big Red Sponge,does anyone know of a stockist?

I was told a soft grouting sponge is ideal for use with ONR,is the serious performance pad a better option?

Cheers:thumb:

Andy


----------



## lowejackson

Andy, the BRS is either from the USA or the European distributor http://www.optimumcarcare.nl/index.php?route=product/product&path=10&product_id=91 I have not tried one, my wife would likely try to remove parts of my anatomy if I spent over £30 on a sponge

I was not so keen on a grout sponge but I was in the minority, I think it is more of a preference than one being better than another.


----------



## Bigpikle

A couple of things - great review and informative post by the way - thanks! Never used D114, and was all set to order a bottle but wont bother now its being discontinued anyway, but it looks like a great product as well. Cant get interested in the Ech20 though - even if you bought that in 5L its still MUCH more expensive than ONR per wash, as its more expensive to buy per L and dilutes significantly less as well (1-200 vs 1-256 and about £16/L vs £11/L).

I do think that one thing that should also be added about ONR is the potential syn ergy of their products. A few examples -


Opt polishes need damp pads and are even better when the pad is dampened with ONR
An ONR dampened MF cloth is the perfect way to remove Opt polish residues, if you decide you even want to, and there is no issue using any Opt LSP over the result
Add a splash of the Opt interior Protectant Plus to ONR, and you have a great interior wash and protect solution
ONR with a splash of OCW is a great wash and wax option (if you dont pay the extra for ONRW&W)
Mix it a little stronger and its a GREAT clay lube or good cleaning QD solution
Using OID, OS or OCW as drying aids adds more of the same polymers so you know there are no compatibility issues
No doubt there are loads more, but thats just the ones I use all the time, so I think it helps offset the stupid high cost we have to pay over here for the product. Its one of the reasons I'm a bit of an Opt fanboy, as their stuff just makes doing the work so much easier and simpler in so many ways! Sadly, now the £/$ has gone to s&*t we will have to keep paying more 

One good thing is the dilution rate of ONR is half that of D114 - 0.5oz to 1 US gallon (3.78L) for ONR, and 1 gallon is easily enough for most of my (non deep winter) washes these days. D114 appears to be 1oz per gallon and the only places Google tells me its sold now are more expensive than ONR, so it looks like being more than twice the price per wash - unless I've missed a cheap place to get it?

By the way, you can make an 'approximation' of the BRS taking a stanley knife to a grout sponge. Cut 0.75" deep cuts at right angles to each other across the face of the sponge, to form a grid of squares. The foam of the BRS is a bespoke foam, but you get the same design. I have done that in the past but dont remember ever seeing any benefit, although intuitively it makes sense. I did find the sponge falls apart more quickly but at £0.75 for a B&Q grout sponge it hardly matters. Grout sponges have a very open structure anyway, so I think you get much of the same 'dirt trapping' effect anyway IME. My 'un-cut' one I have now is at least 3 years old and the 5 pack I bought, more years ago than I can remember, still has 3 new ones sat in it in the cupboard!!!!


----------



## tosh

You can get D114 from Elite and CYC at a reasonable price

The official dilution is 1-128 but Meguiars have said on MOL that 1-256 is ok for normal cars and 1-128 for dirty cars. My tests have borne that out. 

It's a nice alternative to ONR and I'll keep a bottle around. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## tosh

If you use the ONR blue and green side by side, I've found the drying towel glides smoother on the ONR green, so there is something extra in the formula and definitely (for me) doesn't need a QD afterwards. 

It has its place, but I really can't stand the smell It's some kind of tropical sweet thing and I really don't get on with it!

Before D115 was around, guys in the US were using D114 as a waterless wash at 1-128 dilution. As a wheel/interior/glass cleaner at that dilution it's something to keep in the car. I also have a 1-32 dilution for wheel cleaning. 

Thanks for the review!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Andysp

lowejackson said:


> Andy, the BRS is either from the USA or the European distributor http://www.optimumcarcare.nl/index.php?route=product/product&path=10&product_id=91 I have not tried one, my wife would likely try to remove parts of my anatomy if I spent over £30 on a sponge
> 
> I was not so keen on a grout sponge but I was in the minority, I think it is more of a preference than one being better than another.


 Thanks for the info.

When the girlfriend becomes the wife i have no doubt i'll be in the same boat,until then i'll make hay while the sun shines!!

Cheers:thumb:

Andy


----------



## Bigpikle

tosh said:


> If you use the ONR blue and green side by side, I've found the drying towel glides smoother on the ONR green, so there is something extra in the formula and definitely (for me) doesn't need a QD afterwards.


Thats interesting. Considering I was among the very first using ONR on here almost 10 years ago, I still havent got round to trying the ONR W&W version  Partly me being too tight to pay the premium over here and partly because of your point about the QD drying aid - I always thought it was a waste using it if you add a drying aid, and I just cant resist a spritz of QD or spray sealant/wax when I dry the car.

I REALLY need to get some to try soon though. Another US purchase though I think. Customs will think I'm very sad if they open my case and find car shampoo and a big sponge


----------



## lowejackson

Thanks to the local bird population, managed to try D114 at a lower dilution rate of roughly 20:1. My initial impression is this is stronger than ONR which does not seem to increase in power at lower dilution rates. ONR can clearly remove bird droppings but the Megs seem to do it a little quicker and easier.

The comments from Tosh reminded me of something I did not take notice of with the green ONR and that is I did not use anything to help with the drying process as it did not seem necessary. 

Just to add another item to Bigpikle's list of ONR's versatility, ONR as an alternative to IPA. ONR will remove Menz compound, maybe not enough for a coating but for most other products it does a good job. For a little more cleaning power then add a bit of IPA.


----------



## todds

*D114*

One of the major positives found by D114 on the various usa forms that i noticed was the fact that it did not leave any kind of film behind.
regards
todds


----------



## todds

*shelf life of meguiars rinse free express wash D114*

Does anyone know the shelf life of the above or is their a use by date on the container as i was thinking of stocking up on it before its gone
thanks in advance
todds


----------



## Bigpikle

ONR does NOT get better at anything (as a wash solution) when you increase the concentration - its not safer, doesnt clean better or do any more of anything. Optimum themselves continually say this and say you just waste product. The only time they suggest you may want to use slightly more is if you have VERY hard water, as some of the polymers are used to deal with the hard water minerals rather than dirt, but otherwise keep it 1:256.

To start the controversy again, and I am still not sure if I can accept this, but the main voice of Opt these days, clearly stated that despite impressions, ONR dooes not leave anything behind except clean paint. Read the descriptions and labels carefully and it doesnt say it leaves anything behind except 'sleek & glossy' finish. Hmmmm.....


----------



## Bigpikle

todds said:


> Does anyone know the shelf life of the above or is their a use by date on the container as i was thinking of stocking up on it before its gone
> thanks in advance
> todds


I cant imagine there is any shelf life for this TBH, as long as you dont let it freeze etc. There certainly isnt on any other wash I've tried or ONR. Its usually only an issue with solvent heavy products when they will gradually evaporate and dry out the product, or products that cure with moisture etc.

Is there any news of a replacement product from Megs or have they simply decided its not worth the effort?

Edit: Just read Megs said it didnt sell enough to justify production. Tells you what you need to know about the size of the enthusiast detailing market even in the US!!!


----------



## tosh

Megs have to produce a product that sells in the US and worldwide for it to be worth it. 

International distributors started to not reorder it, not enough sales in the US and it was doomed. Could be the ingredients got too expensive and it just wasn't worth it. 

Shame


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## todds

todds said:


> One of the major positives found by D114 on the various usa forms that i noticed was the fact that it did not leave any kind of film behind.
> regards
> todds


I was not implying that other similar products left a film behind as i have not tried any of them. i have only used a small sample of D114 that i was given in a spurious bottle so can only comment on that.
todds


----------



## tosh

todds said:


> I was not implying that other similar products left a film behind as i have not tried any of them. i have only used a small sample of D114 that i was given in a spurious bottle so can only comment on that.
> todds


Based on how 'grabby' my drying towel is, ONR Green leaves wax behind, ONR blue leaves something behind, and D114 leaves nothing. Same towel, same car, different days.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## toni

Hmm not sure if that's the best way to evaluate. Surf City Pro Rinseless wash&wax dries perfectly with one wipe and no grabbyness; and for sure it has wax in it.


----------



## alan hanson

being thick and looking for grout sponge on b&q website search does find anything which exact sponges are peeps using?

ive found this also?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Valet-Pro...f941529&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=6&sd=251321532550

but have gone back through old threads and b&q grout sponge always comes up good especially on price too


----------



## Bigpikle

probably most of those posts were from me :lol: They branded me a heretic back in the day for even suggesting we should use a sponge....let alone with ONR :devil:

This is the one. You have to have a little faith that it softens up really well and doesnt marr paint in any way - I left mine in some ONR for a few days the first time out before use.


----------



## tosh

toni said:


> Hmm not sure if that's the best way to evaluate. Surf City Pro Rinseless wash&wax dries perfectly with one wipe and no grabbyness; and for sure it has wax in it.


It's not an evaluation, it's a comparison of the three that I have.

Surf City says Wash & Wax in the product title, so I'd expect that to leave something behind and not be grabby (but haven't tried that yet)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## alan hanson

brill i'll buy a couple and leave them to soak for 3-4 days, do peeps keep ONR in a bucket (with a lid)? If i made up half a bucket up with the intention of not using it all per wash would it keep ok in the bucket for a week say? are peeps using the spray method on to the panel before wiping also?


----------



## Bigpikle

ONR will keep indefinitely and you can certainly wash more than one car with a mix. Leave it a little while and you'll see all the dirt in the solution sink to the bottom and the liquid becomes clean again. 

I only spray if it's VERY dirty these days and can't remember the last time I actually did. Everyone starts off paranoid with ONR, building in loads of safety steps, and then over time you realise you didn't really need 99% of them!

If it's really dirty I just get the hose on it and rinse off the mud and crud first - then ONR. 

Good luck with it.


----------



## lowejackson

I still spray the paint with ONR, using a cheap weed killer bottle, it only adds a minute or two to the process but I don't wash my car on a weekly basis. Normally it is every 6-8 weeks, sometimes longer


----------



## Bikeracer

Bigpikle said:


> This is the one. You have to have a little faith that it softens up really well and doesnt marr paint in any way - I left mine in some ONR for a few days the first time out before use.


There is no B&Q where I live but Wilko and Halfords carry a Cellulose sponge,just wondering if it's the same thing?
Seem to remember that they go hard if they dry out.

Allan


----------



## Bigpikle

not the same at all- the old cellulose sponges are far to hard and I really wouldnt recommend them. It needs to be the softer foam of the grout sponges or similar I'm afraid


----------



## Bikeracer

alan hanson said:


> brill i'll buy a couple and leave them to soak for 3-4 days, do peeps keep ONR in a bucket (with a lid)? If i made up half a bucket up with the intention of not using it all per wash would it keep ok in the bucket for a week say? are peeps using the spray method on to the panel before wiping also?


Just done my second wash and still got plenty of solution cover over the grit guard,thinking of just adding to it for the next wash rather than making another two gallons up.
Also for a pre spray I just bought a Powerspray double action,viton seals trigger spray from Boyes only £6.00 and found it a lot more economical than the pump sprayer I was using.

Allan


----------

