# Ceramic Coating Not Worth it



## m33porsche (Jun 10, 2007)

i’ve spent a few few £££s getting my car professionally coated and always been pleased with the hydrophobic effects making it such a doddle to clean

But i’ve also found it to be a limitation. Removing bird etching or wash swirling which can never be completely eliminated requires polishing removing the ceramic. 

I also wonder if iron fall out has the same effect of removing the ceramic?

Anyway i’ve come to the conclusion that ceramic is just not worth it, there is no such thing as a set and forget when it comes to looking after your paintwork 

I’m reverting to a more regular cycle of decontamination and a good quality wax or sealant, just like the good old day. 

Realise i maybe off trend but this is what works for me 

m33


----------



## Tinyflier (Mar 28, 2011)

Interesting post - I am literally investigating ceramic coat products on here now!

David


----------



## m33porsche (Jun 10, 2007)

Tinyflier said:


> Interesting post - I am literally investigating ceramic coat products on here now!
> 
> David


I hope there'll be some more informed views on this post as this is just my experience but i have to say i miss the whole waxing thing


----------



## nbray67 (Mar 22, 2012)

Horses for courses I'm afraid.

What floats one persons boat won't necessarily float another's.

I ceramic coat our cars but still apply waxes/sealants/QD's as toppers throughout the year.


----------



## robby71 (Jun 4, 2006)

I was looking into ceramic coating for my new car but decided it wasn't worth the £400 - £700.
I understand it protects the paint from the elements but so does a wax, sealant every few months and tbh i enjoy doing this.
Ceramic coating seems to be recommended for new cars but it doesn't stop the "common" problems we suffer from - stone chips, scrapes, door dings so why is is it praised so highly? surely it's for those who don't want to wax/ polish their cars or am i missing something? 

I did look at PPF but yet again seems overpriced - £1100 just for front bumper/ front of bonnet? wouldn't cost that having the front repainted every couple of years?


----------



## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

Try a ‘Lite’ coating. Something easy to apply and last easily 12 months and costs peanuts. I’ve been using Cquarz Lite for a couple of years now and been impressed.


----------



## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

As has been said, for some it's great, for others not so...

Also, from having a professionally applied coating, cost does also come in to...


----------



## m33porsche (Jun 10, 2007)

robby71 said:


> I was looking into ceramic coating for my new car but decided it wasn't worth the £400 - £700.
> I understand it protects the paint from the elements but so does a wax, sealant every few months and tbh i enjoy doing this.
> Ceramic coating seems to be recommended for new cars but it doesn't stop the "common" problems we suffer from - stone chips, scrapes, door dings so why is is it praised so highly? surely it's for those who don't want to wax/ polish their cars or am i missing something?
> 
> I did look at PPF but yet again seems overpriced - £1100 just for front bumper/ front of bonnet? wouldn't cost that having the front repainted every couple of years?


This is where i am, give it a good wax and repeat every 3 months whilst also polishing out the inevitable defects

m33


----------



## m33porsche (Jun 10, 2007)

It’s probably a good revenue earner for pro detailers as it comes with a mystic about how to apply where as wax or sealant can be applied by a well informed enthusiast. The more i think about it the more i think it’s just an earner for the pro detailers and not in our best interest 

m33


----------



## Schizophonic (Jun 8, 2006)

What annoys me about the term 'Ceramic Coating', is the marketing words they say 'last up to 2-3-4-5 years' and this is just BS. When those words were thrown in make the people who knew nothing about detailing to know its to be topped up on a regular basis by someone who knows what they are doing to make it last those said years.


----------



## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Interesting topic!

Proper ceramic coatings have pros and cons for sure. Whilst they are a far superior form of protection to waxes and sealants in pretty much every way, they are not 'bulletproof', and require a more particular regime to keep looking their best (or they will just fail much earlier than claimed).

Some may perceive them to be extremely limiting - you'd think adding a sacrificial layer to the paint you would become less stressed about maintaining it, but depending on what sort of person you are, it can be the opposite. Many feel the need to justify having spent such a significant sum and become a slave to babying the protection at the expense of enjoying the therapeutic process of maintaining their car. Using only 'detailer recommended' same-brand products, feeling reluctant to remove the odd scratch etc.

As has been mentioned, if you miss the therapeutic element you can fill the gap with spray sealants and toppers but to some that won't be quite the same as whipping out a polish or a favourite wax (or the machine polisher) and that is totally understandable.

As has also been mentioned - lite-coatings are the perfect middle ground of performance without the commitment factor. Whilst the difference between a fully fledged 'pro' coating and a wax or sealant is quite considerable, the different to MUCH more cost effective 'lite' coatings is far far smaller..


----------



## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Schizophonic said:


> What annoys me about the term 'Ceramic Coating', is the marketing words they say 'last up to 2-3-4-5 years' and this is just BS. When those words were thrown in make the people who knew nothing about detailing to know its to be topped up on a regular basis by someone who knows what they are doing to make it last those said years.


I think everything is subject to usage, conditions and correct maintenance though - if you pick the right coating and maintain it right it will last 10 times longer than the next best form of protection. Most waxes or spray sealants claim they last 6 months and don't last half that.

As valuable as they CAN BE, there are so many misperceptions about their hardness and durability I agree.. I personally couldn't leave the inevitable defects that occur with even the most careful wash regime across 5 years worth of ownership, on the paint for that long. But we aren't typical consumers - 9 out of 10 people who opt for them have the ultimate goal of making their car 'look shiny' for longer and ultimately they do deliver that.


----------



## Liambo-235 (Jul 14, 2009)

I would say 80% of my customers that get ceramic coatings on their cars (applied by me) is for the ease of cleaning their cars after driving dirt country roads most days. Another 10% for the keeping clean longer and the final 10% because they have disposable income and that's what they want done.

I get a lot of people asking hearing that it protects their cars and it's get it done and forget about it.. Not true, it needs maintained and I always inform customers about this. Some care and it puts them off and they accept a hybrid sealant from AM Details for example, some say ok let's book reguarly and others just say "I won't maintain it and don't want to book in for regular but go ahead anyway".

It's one of those things where I feel it's worth it if it suits your needs. I didn't have it on any of my previous cars and enjoyed waxes/sealants etc but i've recently put Gyeon Syncro onto my project car and love it!


----------



## Coatings (Feb 10, 2020)

I like that a ceramic coating will last till I feel the need to polish. I like that it makes the car easier to jeep and stay clean than sealants and waxes. 

Being able to get a gyeon or CquK coating for around $50 I see nothing wrong with redoing every year if you feel the need.

If you miss waxing just get Gyeon wax as a topper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RS3 (Mar 5, 2018)

Long term ceramic coatings are worth it IMO and great value even if it costs £1000.

If maintained properly they will last years and years and give stronger protection than any sealant or wax you can name.

I get the enthusiasts who want to polish annually and that's fine but if you don't want to do this and just want to keep a car the cleanest it can be and have the very best protection, a good ceramic is a no brainer.


----------



## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Liambo-235 said:


> I would say 80% of my customers that get ceramic coatings on their cars (applied by me) is for the ease of cleaning their cars after driving dirt country roads most days. Another 10% for the keeping clean longer and the final 10% because they have disposable income and that's what they want done.
> 
> I get a lot of people asking hearing that it protects their cars and it's get it done and forget about it.. Not true, it needs maintained and I always inform customers about this. Some care and it puts them off and they accept a hybrid sealant from AM Details for example, some say ok let's book reguarly and others just say "I won't maintain it and don't want to book in for regular but go ahead anyway".
> 
> It's one of those things where I feel it's worth it if it suits your needs. I didn't have it on any of my previous cars and enjoyed waxes/sealants etc but i've recently put Gyeon Syncro onto my project car and love it!


Can I ask what you would require to do to maintain it? I recently got a "pro" ceramic coating on my car and I was under the impression I just needed to wash it carefully.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Having a coating on a decently used car for more than 3 years is going to need more than a light spruce up. As such, this is the maximum level of coating needed. Any more and they don’t perform any better (except for some very specific types of coatings) and require annual top ups anyway. 

Plus, it shouldn’t be advertised in age, it should be advertised in mileage or time outside. Very different things and still something people can’t get past it, but it’s a far more realistic starting point.

An easy to use high solids coating that provides the type of performance that you’re looking for for a period of 2-3 years with proper maintenance and product support is what is realistically can be provided before the car will need a polish. Even that will be too much for some.


----------



## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

rf860 said:


> Can I ask what you would require to do to maintain it? I recently got a "pro" ceramic coating on my car and I was under the impression I just needed to wash it carefully.


Who installed it and what did they advise?

That is the start. Periodically it will need decontamination, so mineral removal, fallout removal, tar removal. How often this is required depends on how much mileage you do and in what type of conditions.

Look up the 3pH Wash system from Labocosmetica on YouTube for a good example of how to do a deeper clean of a coating.


----------



## m33porsche (Jun 10, 2007)

Some informative views here. I think perhaps from a normal persons perspective i can see how a ceramic makes sense, as pointed out easy to wash and looks shiny. But for me i think i will always have to take the odd scratch out and decontaminate then start a fresh. 

Horses for courses 

m33


----------



## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

It has its places and works for me on my wheels,

Gtechnique C5

Reapply every 18 months after decon and polish.

Keeps them looking good and easy to clean and is much more durable than wax.

Ive also used C5 on metal engine components


----------



## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

roscopervis said:


> Who installed it and what did they advise?
> 
> That is the start. Periodically it will need decontamination, so mineral removal, fallout removal, tar removal. How often this is required depends on how much mileage you do and in what type of conditions.
> 
> Look up the 3pH Wash system from Labocosmetica on YouTube for a good example of how to do a deeper clean of a coating.


It was a local detailer in Ayrshire. The product is Ceramitech Pro Graphene. They recommended just rinsing thoroughly, snow foam, rinse thoroughly again, wash two bucket method with Cartec shampoo then air drying. They advised against using drying towels. The brief I gave him was that I don't have time to "pamper" my car anymore so it needs to be a simple/quick as possible to maintain.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

I think the statement is an over simplification, and the claims that its just a money earner for detailers is quite offensive actually. I would LOVE to just polish cars and throw a nice wax on a car, but they simply dont offer the protection of a coating. 
The truth is, coatings are not for EVERYONE, and a reputable detailer will make that abundently clear upfront and centre. It has nothing to do with the car, we coat old and new alike, its how the owner wants to live their life. I actually spend a lot of time talking people OUT of spending a lot of money as when i ask the correct questions, they give the right answers. 

But make no mistakes, a basic coating will out perform a wax or sealant in every measurable way. That still doesnt mean its for you specifically though


----------



## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

When something like Gyeon Cancoat lasts about 8 months on my car with no toppers or "special treatment", is driven daily and cost £30, I dont think i would ever go back to waxing.


----------



## m33porsche (Jun 10, 2007)

stangalang said:


> I think the statement is an over simplification, and the claims that its just a money earner for detailers is quite offensive actually. I would LOVE to just polish cars and throw a nice wax on a car, but they simply dont offer the protection of a coating.
> The truth is, coatings are not for EVERYONE, and a reputable detailer will make that abundently clear upfront and centre. It has nothing to do with the car, we coat old and new alike, its how the owner wants to live their life. I actually spend a lot of time talking people OUT of spending a lot of money as when i ask the correct questions, they give the right answers.
> 
> But make no mistakes, a basic coating will out perform a wax or sealant in every measurable way. That still doesnt mean its for you specifically though


Not everyone is as straight up as you clearly are 👍


----------



## suds (Apr 27, 2012)

Quick thread resurrection if I may. Are any/all the current ceramic coatings prone to water spotting?


----------



## greymda (Feb 16, 2014)

CarPro SiC, but never tried it myself.

that being said, i had Gyeon Cancoat on my black daily, sitting outside 24/7 and never had any problems with water spotting.


----------



## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

It’s definitely horses for courses, but if I read up that it has to maintained and topped up, I feel it is missing the point.
While I agree that I is probably an improved protection, the benefits doesn’t warrant the cost and effort for me.

Nothing is fit and forget, your car doesn’t stay good looking if you never wash it again, it probably cost over the next three years a lot more than to wax my car 4 times a year.

I need to maintain wax or sealants to keep them working and looking good, topping up coatings is no different to wax again.
Using wax on top of a coating feels a bit like missing the point, if the solvents in the wax doesn’t affect the coating it feels a bit pointless.

It does me thinking of me putting a cheap nylon jacket over my hand made motorbike jacket. It will stay new forever (if I don’t spill on the floor) but nobody sees it and I have no joy of it.

I like to enjoy the things where I pay for.
The other point many of us don’t keep a car long enough to reap the benefits, why would you spend a fortune if you going to trade it in/hand it back after 2 years?

But as i said before: if it makes you happy, you can blast your money on whatever you want.

I still get the buzz from a car freshly waxed shining on my drive, and I get that buzz at least 3-4 times a year.
That should be worth at least 50 quid :lol:


----------



## Chris Donaldson (Jun 26, 2016)

suds said:


> Quick thread resurrection if I may. Are any/all the current ceramic coatings prone to water spotting?


I know my Dad got water spotting on his CARPRO professional coating but that was washing in the sun without his DI vessel connected so it does occur.


----------



## Chris Donaldson (Jun 26, 2016)

I have 5 cars and cover different care options so see the benefits of each. 

I have 2 show cars that get a hand wax as and when I feel the want. As has been said, it looks great, is cheap and therapeutic.

My wife and I have each a daily driver which get a spray sealant as it’s so easy to do. Effectively a maintenance wash and a spray over each week and they look better than most. 

We also have a “nice family car” which has a CARPRO professional ceramic coat. This one is great as it cleans up very easily and I maintain it to a very good standard with little effort. 

Where I do see the benefit of ceramic coating is firstly, having generally 2-3 cars to wash a week, ceramic coating makes it easy for me and second, the wheels on my coated car are so easy to clean. 

My parents have their cars coated and they fall into a different demographic to me. They like a clean car but aren’t fit enough to be able to clean their cars like I can. For them, a maintenance wash is achievable and then whenever I visit then I’ll give them a proper going over. That gives them everything they want and they wouldn’t be capable of achieving it without the coating on the cars.


----------



## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

Schizophonic said:


> What annoys me about the term 'Ceramic Coating', is the marketing words they say 'last up to 2-3-4-5 years' and this is just BS. When those words were thrown in make the people who knew nothing about detailing to know its to be topped up on a regular basis by someone who knows what they are doing to make it last those said years.


I don't apply anything over the top of Carpro Lite. Once that's on I don't mess with it, it'll last easily a year. I refresh it each April/May. That's good enough for me.


----------



## thesmileyone (Dec 8, 2016)

I've had two cars ceramic coated now and it's great, car sits out in the weather all the time so needed protection, when it gets dirty I just take it to a local car wash, hot snowfoam, rinse, hot snowfoam rinse, done. The "beading" after rain looks great too.


----------



## NewAgain-Dan (2 mo ago)

Liambo-235 said:


> I would say 80% of my customers that get ceramic coatings on their cars (applied by me) is for the ease of cleaning their cars after driving dirt country roads most days. Another 10% for the keeping clean longer and the final 10% because they have disposable income and that's what they want done.
> 
> I get a lot of people asking hearing that it protects their cars and it's get it done and forget about it.. Not true, it needs maintained and I always inform customers about this. Some care and it puts them off and they accept a hybrid sealant from AM Details for example, some say ok let's book regularly and others just say "I won't maintain it and don't want to book in for regular but go ahead anyway".


 A lot of our customers come to us thinking they need to get the car protected, because... reasons. Protection sounds good. I don't believe many of them have put a lot of thought into the "Why". Of course, they are spending a lot of money, so they do research the products. They read all the marketing gumpf, and it all sounds good. It's tough as glass and the water falls right off, it protects from scratches etc.

It's once they have had a ceramic coating that most become real converts. In fact, many become evangelists. We have one fella who has had something like nine cars done now for his friends and family. The simple fact of the matter is that the general public don't enjoy washing cars, they certainly don't like polishing and waxing them. Deviating from their routine to have to visit a car wash is something they could do without.

What sells most people is that the car stays cleaner for longer, you have to wash it about half as much. When you do wash it, it's easy. To most people's eyes, a quick blast over with a jet wash, and it's as good as new. That's if they clean the car themselves, most don't.

We have done testing, we currently have a car which is only half coated. There is no doubt, there are less wash marks, less scratches, and it makes a dramatic difference to bug splatter and stone chips. So it does protect your paintwork and the car will stay looking newer for longer. 

In general, I would recommend a ceramic coating to anyone, except maybe detailing enthusiasts. If you are having fun trying to keep your car in perfect condition, there doesn't seem much point as the major benefits are negated. It's ideal for normies.


----------



## NewAgain-Dan (2 mo ago)

Schizophonic said:


> What annoys me about the term 'Ceramic Coating', is the marketing words they say 'last up to 2-3-4-5 years' and this is just BS. When those words were thrown in make the people who knew nothing about detailing to know its to be topped up on a regular basis by someone who knows what they are doing to make it last those said years.


Okay my friend, if you have any rotten fruit lying around, go get it you can throw it at me, because I am guilty as charged. Most of my work is marketing, so I have had companies bring me products, and I have insisted that they put a year on it.

In my defence, I have already acknowledged this issue, and written about it. I hope nobody minds me posting a link, but here's the article - How long do ceramic coatings REALLY last?

As I say at the beginning of the article, it is a bit of a nonsense. People in the industry know this is nonsense, and some manufacturers really don't like it. How long a product lasts can depend on the weather, let alone the kind of use a vehicle is getting.

However, these products do need marketing to the public, and there needs to be a way to differentiate between them. A 10-year coating really is more durable than one labelled as 3-year. But those labels should refer to the guarantee. That is to say that with a 5-year coating, if put on an average car getting average use, the manufacturer is willing to guarantee it for 5-years. There is no BS about this, aside from the fact that very few people ever bother to register their guarantees and most have forgotten they even have a guarantee after a year. Generally, if there is a problem with a coating, it appears in the first six months and is generally due to incorrect application. For the record, despite all the small print designed to deal with people who do really stupid stuff with their cars, manufacturers are very good at honouring them.

Where I take issue with you, and some manufacturers, is the idea that ceramic coatings NEED to be topped up. If a 5-year coating needs to be topped up every year, it is not a 5-year coating, it is a 1-year coating five times. And I agree, that is BS. In fact, we know it's BS because one particular manufacturer introduced their mandatory top-up a fair while AFTER the release of their coating. I believe this was done at the behest of dealerships who are always looking for upsells and tie ins. That's not to say that top-up products don't work, because they do. In fact, if you regularly use a top-up product, there is no reason you couldn't extend the life of the coating many years beyond the guaranteed life.

But I would agree, it is BS to sell a product as a 5-year and then instead sell them a 5-year maintenance program. It isn't needed, largely because most people who buy ceramic coatings aren't actually trying to keep a car in concourse condition. What actually happens is, they put on a 5-year coating, they run it through an automated car wash every few weeks. Then at some point, maybe after the 5-years, they decide to trade it in, and they have a car that looks much newer than its true age.


----------



## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

NewAgain-Dan said:


> Okay my friend, if you have any rotten fruit lying around, go get it you can throw it at me, because I am guilty as charged. Most of my work is marketing, so I have had companies bring me products, and I have insisted that they put a year on it.
> 
> In my defence, I have already acknowledged this issue, and written about it. I hope nobody minds me posting a link, but here's the article - How long do ceramic coatings REALLY last?
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you. We have been applying ceramic for over 12 years.
We don’t sell customer BS of it lasting X amount of years we sell the features and benefits of the product and the prep involved.
Only a few products out there will last 3-5 years with no topper, we recommend to customers no toppers just let the ceramic do it’s thing.
We only use Car Pro products knowing they have been tested in real world before release.
10 year product as said Dosent exist if it needs yearly inspection. Half the cars we do we never see again until-new car time. Most we do are also covered in self healing ppf as well.


----------



## ridders66 (May 24, 2019)

I applied ceramic coatings to my last three cars, Gtechniq and then Kamikaze Coatings to make it easier to maintain. Working hard every day, come weekend I can’t be bothered to clean my car and only clean it once every 4-6 weeks. 😱. I used to do cars for friends at the weekend and never used ceramic coatings then, preferring a good hard wax. 
I must admit, I do miss regular waxing, I still have my Zymöl Concours wax and used it on a mates car recently that I detailed as a thank you for a big favour. I’d forgotten just how nice it is to use and what a deep shine it imparts. You simply don’t get that wet look shine from ceramic.


----------

