# Gold bullion and coins



## STEALTH K3

Has anyone bought or thought about buy any gold bullion and coins and stashing it and then selling it a few years down the line


----------



## CraigQQ

my brother has some stashed away silver and gold coins ect as a future investment.


----------



## Car Key

Price has risen 50% in 3 years, correct?

edit: just Googled, trebled in the past 5 years! :doublesho


----------



## STEALTH K3

Seems to be a safe bet just have to be careful if you are selling the bullion to keep the profrit below the capital gains threshold. And the UK coins are not taxable (if I have understood it correctly)

http://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/info/how-to-buy-gold/paying-capital-gains-tax-on-gold/
http://www.thegoldbullion.co.uk/


----------



## Bero

There are a few people on here who do - IIRC if you're buying gold for investment ensure you're buying it VAT free, things like gold chains will attract VAT as will some gold coins. Other gold coins and all bullion are free from VAT.


----------



## DampDog

Car Key said:


> Price has risen 50% in 3 years, correct?
> 
> edit: just Googled, trebled in the past 5 years! :doublesho


Does that probably not mean you've missed the boat?

I wished I'd of had a few spare quid 5 years back. It did cross my mind to buy a little but being perpetually skint doesn't help.


----------



## STEALTH K3

http://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold-price/5year/ounces/GBP/


----------



## The Cueball

I have gold in Zurich... I buy it via bullion vault

been doing it for about 8 years now.... everything that's left in my bank the day before 'pay day' gets put into gold...

:thumb:


----------



## Bero

What goes up can come down, balanced portfolio bla bla bla - But if you bought/were given gold when you were born early 1980 and kept it for 20 years before giving up you would have lost 40% of it's value as well as 20 years of inflation so lost 60-70% of it's value in real terms! It would only have made a (paper) profit by 2006. And of course vice versa - if you bought a few Kilo in 1970 and you'd be laughing! But I always go into things with a healthy dose of caution and think could 2012 be the new 1980?


----------



## Alzak

I bought some coins from bullion by post back in 2009.

Not so great investment as use to be, but still some money to be made and if You can do without savings on bank account for a bit why not to try make some money on gold.


----------



## kh904

Yep, i'm doing it at the moment, mainly purchasing gold & silver Britannia's (CGT free), with the odd gold & silver bars.
There's VAT on silver, even on silver coins!

I take physical possession, as all these ETF's & gold accounts don't necessarily have the gold to back up the paper certificates - there are many claims (some report 100x) than there is physical!

Gold & silver only protects value against Fiat currency. The value of gold and silver necessarily hasn't gone up over the years, it's just the value of fiat currency going down due to inflation (especially with quantitative easing)!
All fiat currencies go to their intrinsic value - zero!

At the moment the price of gold & silver has been manipulated/suppressed down, if the free markets were allowed to be truely free, gold should be estimate to be anything form 4-10K per ounce to account for the money supply according to some experts.

Governments around the world are printing money trying to keep their economies afloat, and also starting a currency war, destroying people's savings - i don't expect for this to change in the near future.

Look up, Jim Rickards, Jim Rogers, Peter Schiff, Ron Paul, Mike Maloney & Robert Kiyosaki for some background research.

I think the US dollar will collapse when China announces a new gold backed currency that will become the new global reserve currency instead of US$

I think silver is the better investment for returns at it's consumed (it has industrial uses), gold is usually hoarded.


----------



## RedUntilDead

Really?
I looked into a while back for some study work and it seemed that the silver market was very volatile because it has such uses so deemed it not such a good bet for investment. 
I decided that by last year I had missed the boat on gold but more knowledgeable (is that of correct spelling?) than I have disagreed.


----------



## kh904

RedUntilDead said:


> Really?
> I looked into a while back for some study work and it seemed that the silver market was very volatile because it has such uses so deemed it not such a good bet for investment.
> I decided that by last year I had missed the boat on gold but more knowledgeable (is that of correct spelling?) than I have disagreed.


The gold to silver ration is historically 16:1 (gold is 16 times the price of silver), but at the moment it's roughly 53:1

Silver is heavily manipulated by certain traders who have had massive short positions on silver.
From what i understand silver is more rare compared to gold when it comes to investing.

The names i've mentioned in my previous post are worth looking up on youtube, also look up GATA which opens up the level of fraud involved in the precious metal markets!


----------



## STEALTH K3

kh904 said:


> Yep, i'm doing it at the moment, mainly purchasing gold & silver Britannia's (CGT free), with the odd gold & silver bars.
> There's VAT on silver, even on silver coins!
> 
> I take physical possession, as all these ETF's & gold accounts don't necessarily have the gold to back up the paper certificates - there are many claims (some report 100x) than there is physical!
> 
> Gold & silver only protects value against Fiat currency. The value of gold and silver necessarily hasn't gone up over the years, it's just the value of fiat currency going down due to inflation (especially with quantitative easing)!
> All fiat currencies go to their intrinsic value - zero!
> 
> At the moment the price of gold & silver has been manipulated/suppressed down, if the free markets were allowed to be truely free, gold should be estimate to be anything form 4-10K per ounce to account for the money supply according to some experts.
> 
> Governments around the world are printing money trying to keep their economies afloat, and also starting a currency war, destroying people's savings - i don't expect for this to change in the near future.
> 
> Look up, Jim Rickards, Jim Rogers, Peter Schiff, Ron Paul, Mike Maloney & Robert Kiyosaki for some background research.
> 
> I think the US dollar will collapse when China announces a new gold backed currency that will become the new global reserve currency instead of US$
> 
> I think silver is the better investment for returns at it's consumed (it has industrial uses), gold is usually hoarded.


 Dare I ask to what sort of value you have I was thinking of putting in 10K's worth in total 250g bar and the rest Britanias


----------



## Will_G

Another name or silver investment research is Sprott. Some of the guys I speak to on a financial BB use a jersey based company (from memory) for buying their silver as sometimes it'll get through without import duty where a good saving can be made.


----------



## kh904

STEALTH K3 said:


> Dare I ask to what sort of value you have I was thinking of putting in 10K's worth in total 250g bar and the rest Britanias


In the last month or so i've purchased:

Gold:

approx 9/10 britannia's (1 oz)
3 perth 1 oz bars (in there assayed packaging)

Silver:

1 x 5kg bar
2 x 100g bars
approx 100 x britannia's 1 oz)

So off the top of my head roughly £20k (i can't remember the actual figure). I'm getting rid of all my hard earned savings of fiat currency (it's not really money), that i was saving for a house, so i'm putting my money where my mouth is, as they say - i'm naturally very risk adverse, but after doing some research, I couldn't ignore what i came across.

Having said that, many think i'm a conspiracy nut, so don't take anything i say as credible financial advice!  :thumb:

I've just ordered & paid for some more, but it's still waiting to be processed. I definitely believe there is a shortage, as it's taking longer each time for my orders to be processed.

It took a while for me to get my head around everything, but i definitely advise people to do their research and don't take my words as advise or gospel, as it may not be for everyone & their circumstances.


----------



## The Cueball

you're on the right track buddy.... not everyone understands or can grasp the truth...



:thumb:


----------



## STEALTH K3

kh904 said:


> In the last month or so i've purchased:
> 
> Gold:
> 
> approx 9/10 britannia's (1 oz)
> 3 perth 1 oz bars (in there assayed packaging)
> 
> Silver:
> 
> 1 x 5kg bar
> 2 x 100g bars
> approx 100 x britannia's 1 oz)
> 
> So off the top of my head roughly £20k (i can't remember the actual figure). I'm getting rid of all my hard earned savings of fiat currency (it's not really money), that i was saving for a house, so i'm putting my money where my mouth is, as they say - i'm naturally very risk adverse, but after doing some research, I couldn't ignore what i came across.
> 
> Having said that, many think i'm a conspiracy nut, so don't take anything i say as credible financial advice!  :thumb:
> 
> I've just ordered & paid for some more, but it's still waiting to be processed. I definitely believe there is a shortage, as it's taking longer each time for my orders to be processed.
> 
> It took a while for me to get my head around everything, but i definitely advise people to do their research and don't take my words as advise or gospel, as it may not be for everyone & their circumstances.


So do you think its better going for coins or bullion I am thinking the wrong way of going for 250 bar and then Britannia coins. What is your plan of time to keep them for


----------



## STEALTH K3

Was thinking of something like this


----------



## kh904

Me personally, i've not bought gold that's bigger that 1oz per unit. 
The reason for this is in case i needed some cash, i don't have to get rid of a bigger bar (ie getting rid of all the investment) - just selling individual units.

Also this is due to capital gains tax. You have a personal allowance of around £10,600 (iirc) per year, so if you had a 1 gold bar originally costing say £5K, then it went up in value to say £20k, you pay CGT on (20,000-5000) 
£15000 gain less £10,600 allowance = £4400 x either 20% or 40% iirc depending on the rate of tax you pay.
With smaller bars you can sell, say one or two per year making sure you stay under the allowance, therefore paying no CGT.
The problem with that is the price could go down the following year.

However, with the Britannia's & sovereigns, they are CGT free, so you don't need to worry about this, but you also do pay a premium over the spot price for these coins.

WIth silver, you can get bigger bars because the cost per unit is so much smaller than gold, so the gains are likely to be under the £10,600 allowance.

It can be a head hurter, but there are some good guides on the websites you are thinking of buying from, also youtube as people can explain it well with.

Me personally, even though you get better value for money with the 250g gold bar, I would probably go for something a bit smaller - HOWEVER this is due to the basis of the prediction by some people (even they are called conspiracy nuts buy mainstream 'experts') that gold can shoot to say $10K per ounce depending on certain circumstances.

Maybe Cueball may have better advice as he's been doing it a lot longer than myself & he's more financially successful than me :lol:


----------



## kh904

I would recommend you read this thread:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=215811

It's a good background knowledge & info to understand certain concepts about we the public call money! Then you understand the concept of some of the reasons gold/silver goes up & down in price & why people invest in it.

As for how long to keep them for? That's a tough one, as i'd sell when it's at it's highest price & overvalued compared to other assets that can generate cashflow & returns for me ie buy-to-let
The difficult part is to know when the top is!

Housing is still waaaaay overvalued compared to other assets imo, that's why i've not bought a house yet (they've actually gone down in price against gold over the last ten years iirc). Same goes for shares - on average!


----------



## STEALTH K3

It works out slightly cheaper to buy 2 100g and a 50g instead of the 250g bar this is what I will be going for


----------



## Bero

kh904 said:


> In the last month or so i've purchased:
> 
> Gold:
> 
> approx 9/10 britannia's (1 oz)
> 3 perth 1 oz bars (in there assayed packaging)
> 
> Silver:
> 
> 1 x 5kg bar
> 2 x 100g bars
> approx 100 x britannia's 1 oz)
> 
> So off the top of my head roughly £20k (i can't remember the actual figure). I'm getting rid of all my hard earned savings of fiat currency (it's not really money), *that i was saving for a house*, so i'm putting my money where my mouth is, as they say - i'm naturally very risk adverse, but after doing some research, I couldn't ignore what i came across.
> 
> Having said that, many think i'm a conspiracy nut, so don't take anything i say as credible financial advice!  :thumb:
> 
> I've just ordered & paid for some more, but it's still waiting to be processed. I definitely believe there is a shortage, as it's taking longer each time for my orders to be processed.
> 
> It took a while for me to get my head around everything, but i definitely advise people to do their research and don't take my words as advise or gospel, as it may not be for everyone & their circumstances.


I agree with nearly all the above, the part that made me raise an eyebrow was the house part. Are you still saving for a house? In the UK? If you're goal is to buy a house in GBP in the relative short term (IMHO) converting into and out of gold adds risk. I agree with long term wealth storage, but shorter term saving for something you're buying in the same currency you buy the gold.......maybe!


----------



## kh904

Bero said:


> I agree with nearly all the above, the part that made me raise an eyebrow was the house part. Are you still saving for a house? In the UK? If you're goal is to buy a house in GBP in the relative short term (IMHO) converting into and out of gold adds risk. I agree with long term wealth storage, but shorter term saving for something you're buying in the same currency you buy the gold.......maybe!


Yep i'm saving for a house (i had £100K cash, so i could have put that as deposit) but houses are still over-valued, gold & silver undervalued.

Is it a risk? Yes, but imo it's riskier leaving my assets as cash due to inflation & low interest rates. I don't believe the inflation figures whatsoever, so leaving cash in the bank i'm losing captial.

I believe we could be on the cusp of high inflation even hyper-inflation! It happened in Germany, recently in Zimbarbwe, Argentine etc etc, no country is immune, especially when every economy inter-linked, the USA have a debt that can never be paid back, Euro in turmoil etc etc.


----------



## Car Key

kh904 said:


> I would recommend you read this thread:
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=215811


 I see a certain someone is still copying and pasting other peoples words, passing them off as their own, in an attempt to keep up their dragons den / 'finance director' persona on here


----------



## kh904

Car Key said:


> I see a certain someone is still copying and pasting other peoples words, passing them off as their own, in an attempt to keep up their dragons den / 'finance director' persona on here


Not sure if that was aimed at me or not. 

Care to share you opinions on the subject? I always like to hear the other side of the argument.


----------



## kh904

StealthK3: 

Did you manage to purchase anything yesterday?
The price of gold & silver dropped quite a bit on the US news of their improved economy figures, so if you bought later in the evening, you've done quite well!

So i've lost a couple of hundred £ on the value of my holdings so far, but i'm not too worried as i'm not looking at the immediate short term.


----------



## Car Key

kh904 said:


> Not sure if that was aimed at me or not.


 Not at you KH, nope


----------



## Simply Clean

This is my main man counting for me, not as much as i used to have:lol:


----------



## kh904

Well Germany want to audit their gold in Fed Reserve in NY so are looking to ship it back, & now Ecuador want 1/3 of their gold reserves back too!

It seems that they don't believe it's all there or allocated for them & there's something not right going on.

I guess Hugo Chavez knew something a few years ago when he shipped Venusuela's (sp?) gold reserves back fro the Bank of England!!!

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldn...k_-_The_Entire_German_Gold_Hoard_Is_Gone.html

Well let's see if the gold actually exists first!


----------



## tom-coupe

Can you make a lot of money buying and selling gold?


----------



## kh904

tom-coupe said:


> Can you make a lot of money buying and selling gold?


It's the same with anything, if you can get it at low price and sell it for more then yes, but it's not that easy unfortunately!


----------



## tom-coupe

No I realise this I'm trying to learn bits and bats I've got about 30 silver proof coins but not sure how much there worth all boxed ect


----------



## kh904

Personally i'll hold on to them if you don't need the money right now!


----------



## STEALTH K3

kh904 said:


> StealthK3:
> 
> Did you manage to purchase anything yesterday?
> The price of gold & silver dropped quite a bit on the US news of their improved economy figures, so if you bought later in the evening, you've done quite well!
> 
> So i've lost a couple of hundred £ on the value of my holdings so far, but i'm not too worried as i'm not looking at the immediate short term.


No have not bought anything as of yet just observing the market for the time being


----------



## RedUntilDead

tom-coupe said:


> Can you make a lot of money buying and selling gold?


you can make a lot of money backing horses


----------



## DampDog

Is gold now overvalued in the market??

First up I no nothing about the subject other than what I've read here. However simply form looking at the historical price charts gold looks to be overvalued to me. From the mid 70s to the mid 20's it value has been £200-300 give or take, its only since the financial meltdown it value has rocketed. Now that's wonderful if you began investing 5 or more years ago but is it still prudent or wise as an investment now? or is the bubble about to burst?


----------



## The Cueball

In times of trouble and financial uncertainty caused by modern "fiat" money systems, people usually go back to the "gold standard" way of thinking...

Will it come back down... maybe... possibly.... but the global economic crisis will have to be fixed and forgotten before that happens… and depending on your view point - i.e. has it all been manufactured for the gain of a few and to pas laws, remove privacy and rights of the people, etc, then I don't see anyone recovering anytime soon…

Of course, if you think the meltdown was the work of a few "bad" men, and they worked alone, then everything will get fixed, and yes, maybe the price of gold will fall back down.

I see some of our wonderful politicians are now calling for a "living wage" as well as a "minimum wage" for this country…. Further increase in cost of living for the UK, so prices will rise further… are these people really that stupid… or are they actually NOT trying to help, and NOT get us back on our feet…

<slightly o/t I know... sorry! :lol:>

:thumb:


----------



## DampDog

Sorry my heads just not in the right place for a debate on the causes and rights and wrongs of minimum wage and it's effects on the economy this morning. And who's' the evil genius behind the collapse in the world economy.


Gold being a shrewd investment while the markets are in turmoil makes sense, and fuppin Israel are itching to flatten Iran at the moment and vice versa, so I can see its price increasing even more. 

I was simply thinking out loud as usual and would it be a safe-ish place to stick a few £K currently. I don't mind not making a few quid, but cant afford to lose any capital. 

Just briefly on the "living wage" does paying people a little more hurt or harm the economy?? If you pay folk minimum businesses benefit and become more profitable, but people have less disposable income to buy goods. If they get paid a little more assuming they don't simply just save it for a rainy day, that money gets spent and come back to the businesses anyway. There the obvious argument that if your business is less competitive it may fail, but you can't compete anyway against some lad knocking out the same stuff in China for a bowl of rice and a bed (unless of course you move your business to China) Especially when the Ik is a country of retailers not manufacturers anymore.


----------



## The Cueball

So do you expect the business to just absorb this increase?!?!

Or will they increase their selling price in order to make the same profit as before!?!?

So you may have an extra £3 in your pocket, but the goods you want to buy have just went up £3 in order to pay for the increase...



anyway, I won't take the thread o/t either... another chat for another day... 


:thumb:


----------



## Bero

DampDog said:


> Sorry my heads just not in the right place for a debate on the causes and rights and wrongs of minimum wage and it's effects on the economy this morning. And who's' the evil genius behind the collapse in the world economy.
> 
> Gold being a shrewd investment while the markets are in turmoil makes sense, and fuppin Israel are itching to flatten Iran at the moment and vice versa, so I can see its price increasing even more.
> 
> I was simply thinking out loud as usual and would it be a safe-ish place to stick a few £K currently. I don't mind not making a few quid, but cant afford to lose any capital.
> 
> Just briefly on the "living wage" does paying people a little more hurt or harm the economy?? If you pay folk minimum businesses benefit and become more profitable, but people have less disposable income to buy goods. If they get paid a little more assuming they don't simply just save it for a rainy day, that money gets spent and come back to the businesses anyway. There the obvious argument that if your business is less competitive it may fail, but you can't compete anyway against some lad knocking out the same stuff in China for a bowl of rice and a bed (unless of course you move your business to China) Especially when the Ik is a country of retailers not manufacturers anymore.


If you can't afford to lose capital do not invest money - save it, governments bonds or something like that. Of course 'making' 2% interest is effectively losing money but your capital will not drop.

Reading your minimum wage part. Think bigger, consider how UK PLC becomes richer and profitable. It's not by paying your factory worker more money to allow him to spend more on a house and change from home made sandwiches to a burger van. Everything just becomes a little more expensive and the net result is next to zero benefit, and on an country wide level it's detrimental.

The way to boost the *country* and subsequently it's people is to make us more comparative in the *international* market, manufacture and sell our goods, process materials to add value and export them, invest in technology and become a leader in segments and areas there is international demand for. Sitting on our ass with our hand out for a 'better wage', living in an increasingly service based economy and wishing for our house price to double has the exact opposite effect! (all IMHO of course :thumb

Edit - Cueball obviously writes faster and more concisely them me!


----------



## DampDog

Bero said:


> If you can't afford to lose capital do not invest money - save it, governments bonds or something like that. Of course 'making' 2% interest is effectively losing money but your capital will not drop.
> 
> Reading your minimum wage part. Think bigger, consider how UK PLC becomes richer and profitable. It's not by paying your factory worker more money to allow him to spend more on a house and change from home made sandwiches to a burger van. Everything just becomes a little more expensive and the net result is next to zero benefit, and on an country wide level it's detrimental.
> 
> The way to boost the *country* and subsequently it's people is to make us more comparative in the *international* market, manufacture and sell our goods, process materials to add value and export them, invest in technology and become a leader in segments and areas there is international demand for. Sitting on our ass with our hand out for a 'better wage', living in an increasingly service based economy and wishing for our house price to double has the exact opposite effect! (all IMHO of course :thumb
> 
> Edit - Cueball obviously writes faster and more concisely them me!


Cheers nice post, but I'm sure there will always be a debate as to what the "minimum" should be. It just makes me feel uncomfatouble that we live in a world where those that are quite happy to justiy a minimum for others, often earn millions simply for being a member or some board or other. And tell us it's for the greater good..


----------



## The Cueball

DampDog said:


> Cheers nice post, but I'm sure there will always be a debate as to what the "minimum" should be. It just makes me feel uncomfatouble that we live in a world where those that are quite happy to justiy a minimum for others, often earn millions simply for being a member or some board or other. And tell us it's for the greater good..


That is one of the issues TBH... the people that push these wage decisions are the MPs... with all their extra homes, expenses etc etc...

They don't have any real life dealings, so how do they know what a "good" wage is!?!?!?

I glad, and proud that every person in the company's I work for are paid more than minimum wage... but there is always going to be low earners and high earners... there has to be.... and you know I'm always going to "try" and defend the board's position! :lol: 

:thumb:


----------



## A210 AMG

Hi All,

I'm interested in this, not to make millions (I wish) but find it quite interesting and more fun than the current various acconts / ISAs, we have set up for our kids.

If I wanted to 'get into this' whats the best way. Yes google is great but it almost information overload. I would be looking at buying Gold on a bit od spare cash basis each month.

Loking at the prices 1g to 5g Bars (http://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold-bars/5-gram-gold-bar/)

So rather than trawl google some of you are already doing this on a much larger scale than me  any advise or tips where to buy or what to look for etc.

My idea would be to keep buying it and when the kids are 18, along with all the other 'pots' that mature etc see how well this has done also (or not as the case may be)

Thanks in advance


----------



## Bero

^ on small bars there is a pretty hefty premium for buying v selling.

1g bar to buy just now = £43, if you sell it today also you would get £34 (-shipping and insurance to send it to them)

5g bar to buy now = £192, if you sell it today also you would get £167 (-shipping and insurance to send it to them)

You need a 20%+ increase in the gold price just to break even, that means $1692Oz needs to jump to $2030Oz just to break even....which is significantly higher than it has even been. If you want to invest it _*may*_ make more sense to save for larger single bars.


----------



## kh904

DampDog said:


> Is gold now overvalued in the market??
> 
> First up I no nothing about the subject other than what I've read here. However simply form looking at the historical price charts gold looks to be overvalued to me. From the mid 70s to the mid 20's it value has been £200-300 give or take, its only since the financial meltdown it value has rocketed. Now that's wonderful if you began investing 5 or more years ago but is it still prudent or wise as an investment now? or is the bubble about to burst?


Well according o what i've researched, gold & silver is still 'under-priced' (not necessarily under-valued). The prices are being manipulated (it's actually quite easy to do) to give confidence in fiat currencies around the world.

The price of gold has increased massively not necessarily due to being more valuable, but the value of our currency being destroyed (ie inflation).

The value of gold is usually inversely proportional to the value of currency. There's simply too much fiat money in the system for gold to go down to levels say 10 years ago.

A good video i'd recommend everyone interested in buying gold or silver is:


----------



## kh904

Bero said:


> ^ on small bars there is a pretty hefty premium for buying v selling.
> 
> 1g bar to buy just now = £43, if you sell it today also you would get £34 (-shipping and insurance to send it to them)
> 
> 5g bar to buy now = £192, if you sell it today also you would get £167 (-shipping and insurance to send it to them)
> 
> You need a 20%+ increase in the gold price just to break even, that means $1692Oz needs to jump to $2030Oz just to break even....which is significantly higher than it has even been. If you want to invest it _*may*_ make more sense to save for larger single bars.


Yep, the smaller the bar/coin, the higher the premium, and the larger the bar/gold the lower premium (ie economies of scale).

However the advantages of owning smaller bars/coins means it's easier to sell (especially privately to the public & you have a bigger market), and you can sell smaller amounts/units if & when you need the cash, where as a bigger bar you need to sell it all to get the cash.

The smaller bars/coins sell on ebay quite easily for the price a dealer will retail them at!


----------



## Bero

kh904 said:


> Yep, the smaller the bar/coin, the higher the premium, and the larger the bar/gold the lower premium (ie economies of scale).
> 
> However the advantages of owning smaller bars/coins means it's easier to sell (especially privately to the public & you have a bigger market), and you can sell smaller amounts/units if & when you need the cash, where as a bigger bar you need to sell it all to get the cash.
> 
> The smaller bars/coins sell on ebay quite easily for the price a dealer will retail them at!


All your points are valid and why I put 'may' on bold. I'm not meaning 100g bars, just a bit bigger, save to the 1 Oz size there is negligible premium between that and 1kg bars. 1 Oz should still be readily salable, and more of a standard trading size. I just could not take myself to invest in something that drops 20% the day you buy it, just like I could not buy shares with a 20% spread or a bank account that charged a significant % to deposit money. If others are comfortable with an instant 20% drop then great and each to their own. :thumb:


----------



## kh904

Very true Bero, but the spread is if you sell to a dealer, but if you sell it to the public yourself using ebay for eg. then it's very possible to not lose that much of premium (if at all).

In fact, i've seen many many cases where coins & some bars sell more on ebay that you can just buy from a reputable online dealer!!!

I don't know too much about buying shares tbh, but I know the stock exchange is also rigged & manipulated by the Federal Reserve via the Exchange Stabilization Fund/Plunge Protection team iirc.
If the market drops massively, they pump in money and buy a lot of shares to keep the stock market up to avoid mass scale panic! 
Now the Fed is buying up mortgage securities, doing bond swaps with other central banks etc etc


----------



## DampDog

I think I'm going to have a tiny dabble..

I have a little money in premium bonds and I think I'm going to buy some bullion..

Do I go bars or coins? Coins appear to demand a slightly higher premium than plain bars. Or am i talking out of my hat as usual?

I was thinking possibly a couple of 20g bars and maybe a Half ounce Krugerrand.

Or does it really not matter what form it takes (fineness & weight, count?)


----------



## A210 AMG

I just like the idea that I can touch it, see it, feel it, etc 

Far better than a bank book or statement.

May watch goldmember tonight


----------



## STEALTH K3

DampDog said:


> I think I'm going to have a tiny dabble..
> 
> I have a little money in premium bonds and I think I'm going to buy some bullion..
> 
> Do I go bars or coins? Coins appear to demand a slightly higher premium than plain bars. Or am i talking out of my hat as usual?
> 
> I was thinking possibly a couple of 20g bars and maybe a Half ounce Krugerrand.
> 
> Or does it really not matter what form it takes (fineness & weight, count?)


If you where to go for a coin I will be going for the Britannia there is no capital gains tax on them


----------



## kh904

Stealth: If you'd bought some gold & silver when I last spoke to you, you would had a nice little gain going by the gains in the last day alone!!! 
I think it's down to the opinion that Obama looks like he'll win a second term & the economy will go down further - meaning more quantatitve easing!


----------



## kh904

Why it's so important to own physical gold in your hand/possession!

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/11/the-emperor-has-no-gold.html


----------



## STEALTH K3

kh904 said:


> Stealth: If you'd bought some gold & silver when I last spoke to you, you would had a nice little gain going by the gains in the last day alone!!!
> I think it's down to the opinion that Obama looks like he'll win a second term & the economy will go down further - meaning more quantatitve easing!


Yes I have been watching over the last few days 33-34 per gram


----------



## tangledmonkey

Just been reading through this, I've never actually thought of buying gold as an investment! Do any of you know of any good reads/guides on the subject? What would you say would be a good minimum investment?


----------



## kh904

tangledmonkey said:


> Just been reading through this, I've never actually thought of buying gold as an investment! Do any of you know of any good reads/guides on the subject? What would you say would be a good minimum investment?


I would suggest you watch the video i've posted earlier on this thread by Mike Malony. It's a good background video explaining the key concepts of why people invest in gold & silver.

I would also recommend just searching on youtube & google various sources (not just the mainstream sites but alternative media) & understand the pro's & con's!

Jim Rogers,
Jim Rickard
Mike Maloney
Robert Kiyosaki
Ron Paul
Peter Schiff

Buy PHYSICAL, that you can have in your hand! A lot of these Gold/Silver ETF's & paper certificates DON'T have the asset to back it up!
All you are buying is a IOU for gold & silver! 
Basically it's a massive game of musical chairs - if you have the gold/silver in your possession, you are guarunteed to be sitting in the chair when the music stops! :thumb:

These are some names i'd definitely recommend to look up! 
Research it well until you feel comfortable investing! Like any investment, it can go down!


----------



## STEALTH K3

After watching Secret Dealers there was 4 Krugerrands on there so I would thought I would check out the prices and I am quite pleased I never did purchase the gold a few years back


----------



## kh904

No doubt if you bought in the last couple of years then you would taken a bit hit (like I have) but this isn't a short term investment. 
I still believe from the research I've done that the price must go up as the market has been manipulated and suppressed downwards for a number of reasons (central banks are leasing it into the market to drive the price down, and there are many suggesting 100x gold contracts for every gold oz of gold that actually exists - again driving prices down).
All the fundamentals should suggest that the price should be much much higher than it currently is.

The east and Russia are currently buying as much as they can without causing a panic to drop the $ reserves they hold which is going to lose a lot of value.
It's no coincidence that the US (and UK) are going to war with countries who are bypassing the $ for international trade.


----------



## STEALTH K3

Bit of a thread revival has anyone had a dabble in this a bit more still not take the plunge yet, I could be going to Dubai as a stop of next year is it work buy gold there in the duty free in gold chain form


----------



## iPlod999

I used to work in Bullion Office for a High Street Bank, late 80's.

The Messengers there had a little scheme going.

There are a couple of years of Gold Sovereigns which are very rare and sought after. When Sovereigns were sent in they would go through them and buy the sought after years. The 'over the counter price, was about £12 at the time.

Even back then a 'normal' sovereign would sell at £80. 

Excuse the pun but they made a mint!


----------



## m4rkymark

I wouldn't touch gold with a barge pole - it has no particular value and goes up and down according to whim. It brings in no income and costs money to store and insure which will erode its value. When Gordon brown sold gold it hasn't really done anything for 30 or so years hence the reason for selling it. The price of it today is still too high as it isn't connected to anything, it's only worth what someone is willing to pay - if anyone tells you it should be worth more they are talking rubbish, they are just trying to talk it up. Try selling them your gold for the price they are talking about and they won't touch it with a barge pole, they will want it for nothing.


----------



## kh904

m4rkymark said:


> I wouldn't touch gold with a barge pole - it has no particular value and goes up and down according to whim. It brings in no income and costs money to store and insure which will erode its value. When Gordon brown sold gold it hasn't really done anything for 30 or so years hence the reason for selling it. The price of it today is still too high as it isn't connected to anything, it's only worth what someone is willing to pay - if anyone tells you it should be worth more they are talking rubbish, they are just trying to talk it up. Try selling them your gold for the price they are talking about and they won't touch it with a barge pole, they will want it for nothing.


Sorry but that is absolutely rubbish.
Gold has a value and has been 'money' for thousands of years where as paper money has over time gone to 0 (no fiat currency has survived throughout history).
Sure the 'price' goes up and down but it's value over time is pretty stable - it's the paper currency that you price gold at that goes up and down.
Gordon brown sold the gold to prop up the $ during the financial crisis as central banks and politicians hate gold as they can't manipulate it in the same way they can currency - ie you can't 'print' gold like they can print money with QE


----------



## m4rkymark

kh904 said:


> Sorry but that is absolutely rubbish.
> Gold has a value and has been 'money' for thousands of years where as paper money has over time gone to 0 (no fiat currency has survived throughout history).


from 1965 to the early 2001/2002 gold prices hadn't really done anything - they were completely static, it went up a little but it dropped back down - it would have cost more for you to keep it and insure it - also given inflation over this period of time your money wouldn't be worth the same amount as it was at the beginning of the period - why would you spend money keeping an investment which has made nothing for over 30 yrs?

can you tell me what its value is related to?

with regards to manipulation are you trying to tell me banks and politicians cant manipulate the price of a commodity like gold - im sorry mate but your completely deluded if you think this - they can, and do, because physical commodities like gold are completely unregulated so they can do what they want. You do know there has already been an investigation into price fixing for gold and a report about it was released earlier this year and it was agreed/accepted that prices were being fixed due to the patterns in pricing.


----------



## Bero

2000 years ago you could buy a very nice outfit with an ounce of gold.

Today you could buy a very nice outfit with an ounce of gold.

I bet in 2000years time this will still be true.

Try buying anything 2000 years ago with Bank of England notes and you would be laughed at.

Marky, look at value over the long term, it's remarkable stable.


----------



## m4rkymark

bero I agree its stable and has been for a long time - depending on your outlook it doesn't necessarily make it a good investment.

I don't think anyone can say what its value will be worth what it is today in 10/20/30 yrs time - I do wonder though what will happen to its value if the Chinese bank crash happens?


----------



## Bero

m4rkymark said:


> bero I agree its stable and has been for a long time - depending on your outlook it doesn't necessarily make it a good investment.
> 
> I don't think anyone can say what its value will be worth what it is today in 10/20/30 yrs time - I do wonder though what will happen to its value if the Chinese bank crash happens?


Agreed, but it's the same with all investments (or really a wealth store in the case of gold). If you could predict the gold/oil/wheat/classic car/property/share price tomorrow or 10/20/30 years time you would be a multi millionaire :thumb:.


----------

