# BH DSW failing rapidly



## JR9862 (Nov 26, 2017)

Hi all,

About 5/6 weeks ago, I fully detailed my car using the following steps

Wash > Tar Remover > Fallout > Clay > Polish > Wax

The paint was as smooth as glass after the decontamination, I polished then applied two thin coats of DSW. At first, the water behaviour/ protection was spot on but I washed the car yesterday and the paint is yet again rough as sandpaper/is showing signs of deteriorating quickly. 

It is my daily, I do about 400 miles a week and the car gets washed weekly with DJ Sour Power. Obviously with this weather I expect some contamination but for it to need to be clayed again in 5/6 weeks is absurd

Just looking for the answer as to why DSW seems to have offered little protection/failed quickly


----------



## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

What polish did you use before waxing?


----------



## JR9862 (Nov 26, 2017)

Just M205, to remove some marring from clay.


----------



## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Did you use an IPA or panel wipe before waxing?


----------



## JR9862 (Nov 26, 2017)

No, I’ve read mixed things on IPA wipedowns so I didn’t bother this time.


----------



## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

That's why it is failing then oils left behind by M205 means it will not have bonded properly


----------



## A&J (Mar 4, 2015)

Well there you go...you didnt remove the polishing oils from the paint therefore the sealant did not bond properly.


----------



## JR9862 (Nov 26, 2017)

Ross said:


> That's why it is failing then oils left behind by M205 means it will not have bonded properly


This was my thinking, thanks for confirming. Looks like I'll have to do it all over again, lesson learnt!


----------



## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Easy mistake,everybody has done it before. BH have Cleanser fluid which works really well. Should see 4 to 6 months out of DSW.


----------



## JR9862 (Nov 26, 2017)

I was going to do an IPA wipedown but I read a few things on the web saying it isn’t necessary. Thanks for the quick reply, looks like my weekends sorted


----------



## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

With older waxes they don't mind an oily base but DSW has polymers in it meaning its half wax half sealant and sealants like a clean base.


----------



## JR9862 (Nov 26, 2017)

That makes more sense, wish I’d of known prior.


----------



## OvEr_KiLL (Mar 2, 2015)

or use cleanser polish before dsw 
Bilt Hamber cleanser-polish normally offers up to three months of protection against the elements per application, but can be topped with any of the carnauba-based waxes in the Bilt Hamber range (and other sealants and waxes too) if greater durability is required. The firm glassy-looking layer of protection also provides good protection against bird droppings, bug splatter, brake dust, road salt and UV radiation from the sun.


----------



## macca666 (Mar 30, 2010)

Even with not using an IPA or paint cleanser 5/6 weeks still seems pretty quick to me to go from smooth as glass to rough as sandpaper and needing a full clay again??


----------



## JR9862 (Nov 26, 2017)

macca666 said:


> Even with not using an IPA or paint cleanser 5/6 weeks still seems pretty quick to me to go from smooth as glass to rough as sandpaper and needing a full clay again??


My thoughts exactly, maybe it's 400 miles a week that does it


----------



## shine247 (Mar 1, 2010)

It could be your car has been subjected to some type of fallout / contamination that has landed on the surface, the DSW may well be performing it's role and forming a barrier. Is it all round the car in equal measures?


----------



## JR9862 (Nov 26, 2017)

shine247 said:


> It could be your car has been subjected to some type of fallout / contamination that has landed on the surface, the DSW may well be performing it's role and forming a barrier. Is it all round the car in equal measures?


The worst affected areas are the horizontal panels, mainly drivers and passenger side doors. Bonnet/rear is relatively rough too. The wings aren't too bad and neither is the roof.


----------



## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

JR9862 said:


> The worst affected areas are the horizontal panels, mainly drivers and passenger side doors. Bonnet/rear is relatively rough too. The wings aren't too bad and neither is the roof.


I would say that all the driving you do in a week has effected your protection :thumb: plus 205 is a SMAT polish so it isn't as heavy in oils as say a DAT polish which would contain more oils for lubrication, but always use a panel wipe of some sort:thumb:


----------



## JR9862 (Nov 26, 2017)

chongo said:


> I would say that all the driving you do in a week has effected your protection :thumb: plus 205 is a SMAT polish so it isn't as heavy in oils as say a DAT polish which would contain more oils for lubrication, but always use a panel wipe of some sort:thumb:


Is there a way around having to do this full process every 5/6 weeks or is it just a case of sucking it up?


----------



## macca666 (Mar 30, 2010)

JR9862 said:


> My thoughts exactly, maybe it's 400 miles a week that does it


I used to do 350 - 400 a week and car lived outdoors and never had it as bad as that. Down to between 2-300 now


----------



## JR9862 (Nov 26, 2017)

macca666 said:


> I used to do 350 - 400 a week and car lived outdoors and never had it as bad as that. Down to between 2-300 now


I don't know what the answer is then, at a loose end as to where to go from here. Slightly frustrating, as it seems like all my hard work is going to waste


----------



## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Decontaminate, prep and polish/panel wipe and then apply 2 layers of DSW - This should be good for at least 4 months, even with 400 miles per week. 2 layers is key on a clean, oil free surface.


----------



## JR9862 (Nov 26, 2017)

I’ll give it another go and see what difference it makes.


----------



## lemansblue92 (Aug 6, 2015)

I get good results when prepping with cleanser fluid. taken from the polished bliss website:

"Bilt Hamber are so proud of this wax that they offer a money back guarantee; as long as you use Bilt Hamber cleanser-fluid first (to prepare the finish) they will refund you the purchase price if it doesn't outlast your current best wax."


----------



## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

JR9862 said:


> Is there a way around having to do this full process every 5/6 weeks or is it just a case of sucking it up?


Yes there is:thumb:

Get it ceramic coated


----------



## galamaa (Aug 3, 2014)

This is pure contaminate. You cant get it off, when you don´t use asphalt remover. This is my every week process. First hit with asphalt remover (no rinse after that. I use petrol based remover, because alkohol based dry to quickly and left some nasty residue on the paint) then BH autofoam the car. You`ll see how much dirt come of and falling down on the road. In winter time is normal. I have 2 cars, one is ceramic coated and another wear DSW. Both have same issues winter time. Ceramic coat last better (if this coating have good chemical resistant). I use Everglass Top Coat - very good product. No water etching problem, hold on the car pretty well . I live in Estonia. Here road conditions I think harsher than england or ireland.


----------



## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

galamaa said:


> I live in Estonia. Here road conditions I think harsher than england or ireland.


Definitely a lot harsher!

OP, worth bearing in mind that DSW achieves quite a lot of its longevity through detergent resistance; however for long distance driving in bad weather, the physical resistance of the LSP film is more important. Sticking with BH, their Finis wax is a good candidate here (as are many other LSPs of course).

I'd certainly agree with the others here that DSW wants oil free paint to bond to - even over Cleanser Polish I've seen 4-5 months out of it, albeit on a car covering far less miles than yours. Cleanser Fluid is good stuff but any naptha-based panel wipe will do the job.

I do wonder whether any wax-based LSP can really stand up to very high mileages without top-ups. Maybe the new generation of hybrid waxes eg Wowos Nanocoat, OW Icon, etc might stand a chance. However if you can't get DSW to do the job for you I'd look at one of the highly durable sealants available for <£20 - eg Sonax PNS, Wowos Crystal Sealant, Britemax Extreme Elements 2.0.


----------



## JR9862 (Nov 26, 2017)

steelghost said:


> Definitely a lot harsher!
> 
> OP, worth bearing in mind that DSW achieves quite a lot of its longevity through detergent resistance; however for long distance driving in bad weather, the physical resistance of the LSP film is more important. Sticking with BH, their Finis wax is a good candidate here (as are many other LSPs of course).
> 
> ...


I'll give DSW a try with a panel wipe before application, if not I might try Sonax PNS as I've heard good things. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by detergent resistance?


----------



## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

JR9862 said:


> I'll give DSW a try with a panel wipe before application, if not I might try Sonax PNS as I've heard good things. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by detergent resistance?


Detergent resistance means how much (or not) an LSP is degraded by shampoos, snowfoams etc applied to the car.

Classic paste waxes, particularly "show" waxes that are formulated for maximum gloss and not much else, may get washed off a car in as little as a couple of washes.

Double Speed-Wax is noted for it's very high detergent resistance ie washing, snowfoams etc have relatively little effect.


----------



## Simmo_ADx (Nov 25, 2017)

For future reference it might be worth noting that DSW sits perfectly upon Prima Amigo.
Have had no issues with this combination, no need for an IPA wipe down after and has lasted 7 months so far.


----------



## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

JR9862 said:


> I'll give DSW a try with a panel wipe before application, if not I might try Sonax PNS as I've heard good things. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by detergent resistance?


I've tested DSW against PNS (single layer) on the bonnet of my daily driver over winter (300 miles per week) and they were both very similar, both in terms of water behaviour and longevity and they both massively outlasted Collinite 915. PNS lasted a bit longer, but not enough to make me thing it would have an impact in the OP's case. Crystal Sealant however would be worth a go, that is a level or 2 up again.


----------



## galamaa (Aug 3, 2014)

I have tested so many waxes, sealants, ceramic coatings many years our land conditions and believe me or not, there not many products this can hold our conditions well. DSW is wax type product, which can hold 1 -1,5 month, but this ok, because I know, that another wax type products falling down much much faster. Even much promo ceramics falling down after 3 months and yes, they dont wake up even if you use many detergents to get them back to hydrobhobic stand. Plan to try crystal sealant,but read that product is nightmare to use. I ll try it and report it. Is anybody have crystal sealant and do test, how this product work if you are doing 5% solutoin with water and spritz on paint and then rinse off. Is it work?


----------



## JR9862 (Nov 26, 2017)

Quick update, I’ve spent all day at it and still not finished! 

I washed > tar remover > rinse > fallout remover > rinse > clay (medium) > wash > dry > polish. 

However, I ran out of daylight so have only polished roughly half the car. At this point I gave the full car an IPA wipedown and sealed with one coat of DSW, the car will be sat on the drive until tomorrow morning. What’s the best way to continue from the point I’m at? Shall I just QD the panels and finish polishing or do I need to wash again before polishing?

Many thanks in advance:thumb:


----------



## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

JR9862 said:


> Quick update, I've spent all day at it and still not finished!
> 
> I washed > tar remover > rinse > fallout remover > rinse > clay (medium) > wash > dry > polish.
> 
> ...


Presumably I think you'd be ok with snowfoam / jet wash off, given the car isn't being driven.


----------



## scottk7 (Jul 7, 2014)

JR9862 said:


> I was going to do an IPA wipedown but I read a few things on the web saying it isn't necessary. Thanks for the quick reply, looks like my weekends sorted


Out of curiosity where'd you read it?


----------



## JR9862 (Nov 26, 2017)

steelghost said:


> Presumably I think you'd be ok with snowfoam / jet wash off, given the car isn't being driven.


Just had rain so I'll snowfoam and rinse.

I read that IPA wipedown wasn't necessary on one of the American forums, forget which one.


----------

