# New MOT rules are finally here



## alexf (May 23, 2009)

Is your car going to pass?

http://uk.autoblog.com/2012/01/04/changes-to-mot-rules-in-2012-are-you-ready/

:driver: Let me know, I wouldn't mind doing a quick tally up :wave:


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Jesus, that's some testing there, that is real strict, real over board i think.

Alot of cars may not pass, that's the problem, being in a economy crisis, will people have the money for the heavy bills, this is getting out of hand now, this is what i believe.


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## [email protected] (Mar 5, 2007)

this will get quite a few



> Exhaust
> 
> A catalytic convertor fitted as original equipment but missing will be a reason for failure.


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Autobrite Detailer said:


> this will get quite a few


just leave it in your boot. it's not missing if you know where it is.:lol:


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## alexf (May 23, 2009)

Autobrite Detailer said:


> this will get quite a few


Certainly will, I know a few dubbers who might have to have a rethink


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

My car will fail on the Aftermarket Hids and blue sidelight bulbs and thats it. Its a shame that I will have to remove my HIDs as the Vectra C headlamps are total rubbish on dipped beam hence why I fitted the HIDs. I was going to have the DPF removed but I dont think I will bother anymore with tighter rules coming in and will just keep the car looking nice and hopefully move it on for something else that suits my needs better


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

Looks like I'm taking my engine warning bulb out at MOT time then.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

alexf said:


> Is your car going to pass?
> 
> http://uk.autoblog.com/2012/01/04/changes-to-mot-rules-in-2012-are-you-ready/
> 
> :driver: Let me know, I wouldn't mind doing a quick tally up :wave:


Yep both ours will pass no probs, most of that is already part of the test in some way, seems like a load of scare mongering to me:thumb:


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

the esp ruling is a bit daft as its an optional extra on a lot of cars, so if it isnt working, its only the same as a car without it isnt it?


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## alexf (May 23, 2009)

Trip tdi said:


> Jesus, that's some testing there, that is real strict, real over board i think.
> 
> Alot of cars may not pass, that's the problem, being in a economy crisis, will people have the money for the heavy bills, this is getting out of hand now, this is what i believe.


I was shocked at how much testers can charge for the MOT now, £50 for God's sake!


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

I find this scary, its too strict rules, why now that's the point, they will only end up making it more difficult for cars to pass in the future, specially older ones.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

alexf said:


> I was shocked at how much testers can charge for the MOT now, £50 for God's sake!


Its a joke, everything going up in price fuel etc, people jobs are not secure, need a car to take to work, and making the regulations more strict, how are people going to afford paying, this country's a joke, sorry for pointing it like that, its getting out of hand.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

No issues here :wave:

Get the rules tighter I say, get the dodgers and the chavs off the road....

Waay too many dodgy cars being driven about, they need to be removed before they cause accidents...

And the chavs should just be shot anyway...

:thumb:


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

Gruffs said:


> Looks like I'm taking my engine warning bulb out at MOT time then.


thats a fail if the light is fitted from factory then the tester will put the ignition all warrning lights will have to light up and go out

had a pug 206 fail today on air bag light bulb not coming on


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

The Cueball said:


> No issues here :wave:
> 
> Get the rules tighter I say, get the dodgers and the chavs off the road....
> 
> ...


Dodgers will still dodge and as for chavs, who do you class as chavs


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

That's pretty thorough, I think there will be alot more cars failing now. My car will fail on it's HID lights although there's nothing stopping me just simply putting the original bulbs back in for the test and then reconnecting the HID's afterwards. It'll be interesting to see if retro-fit headlamp washer and auto leveling kits become more widely available now that they're mandatory for an MOT pass.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

justina3 said:


> thats a fail if the light is fitted from factory then the tester will put the ignition all warrning lights will have to light up and go out
> 
> had a pug 206 fail today on air bag light bulb not coming on


Our TT passed today, I thought the airbag rule didn't come into force until April, but is an advisory until then?


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

Dammit!

So i have to pay £240 for a part that stops the engine wobbling on shut down just so a light goes out? 

Great.

So what do i not spend the money on? Tyres or Brakes?


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

Trip tdi said:


> I find this scary, its too strict rules, why now that's the point, they will only end up making it more difficult for cars to pass in the future, specially older ones.


yep had someone trying to part exchange a v reg ka in today one owner from new with 42k on the clock needed a fortue spent on it to get through the mot sadly its worth scrap value to me, think he has just listed it on gumtree with "a little work for mot" !! a little work new brakes bushes arms power steering rack, two sills, petrol flap holding on by the paint and the rear wiper the same both windscreen pillars rottern through brake lines petrol tank two tyres brake light faults locking that doesnt work hardly a little work


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Shinyvec said:


> Dodgers will still dodge and as for chavs, who do you class as chavs


Yes, I agree, but if the rules are harder, then *in theory* dodgy ones with fake MOTs should be easier to spot...

:thumb:



justina3 said:


> yep had someone trying to part exchange a v reg ka in today one owner from new with 42k on the clock needed a fortue spent on it to get through the mot sadly its worth scrap value to me, think he has just listed it on gumtree with "a little work for mot" !! a little work new brakes bushes arms power steering rack, two sills, petrol flap holding on by the paint and the rear wiper the same both windscreen pillars rottern through brake lines petrol tank two tyres brake light faults locking that doesnt work hardly a little work


Glad it's off the road TBH... a V reg is not an old car! :lol:

It has obviously been abused and hence unsafe to drive or be on the road.

:thumb:


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

Shinyvec said:


> My car will fail on the Aftermarket Hids and blue sidelight bulbs and thats it.


I would check with your local MOT station first. There changes are being advertised in an interesting way i.e.

The 'Guide' to the changes - Says that if you have HIDs you MUST have auto-leveling and Washers
BUT
The actual MOT Manual now says

Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge 3. (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps *may* be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or
headlamp self levelling system.
Check that the vehicle is securely fitted with obligatory headlamps, as follows:

Where such systems are fitted, they must work; however, it is accepted that it may not be possible to readily determine the functioning of self levelling systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt must be given.

Headlamp washers *may* work in conjunction with the windscreen washers (when the dipped beam headlamps are switched on) or by a separate switch.

Notice its all MAY i.e. not MUST. 
I'm trying to find links to the VOSA docs I read at work the other day


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## Lars Z (Jul 20, 2011)

Same rules as in Denmark now I think. 
Soon you´ll end up like us. We can´t even fit a super charger or turbo to a car. 

Even if the underside of the car is dirty at MOT time, it can fail on that too.:doublesho


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## dew1911 (Jun 9, 2009)

Finally, get those ****ing awful HID set ups off the road. Shame they can't confiscate the vehicle for them...


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Gruffs said:


> Dammit!
> 
> So i have to pay £240 for a part that stops the engine wobbling on shut down just so a light goes out?
> 
> ...


have you got a vag diesel? if so a few people have fixed the anti shudder valve with elastic bands. I can find a link if thats whats causing it.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Mine rattles when i shut my car off, i;m sure all vag diesels do this.


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## Edstrung (Apr 6, 2009)

I'm kind of happy with this, in a wierd way.

I had a choice recently to fix my 10 year old car properly, or try to sell it at a massive loss (to me, personal value), and then enter into some sort of credit arrangement for a newer car, a newer car with more sensors and more things to go wrong.

I glad I stuck with my choice now of replacing major parts in my car, and almost done now. Just suspension work to do and then perhaps the exhaust in the future. If I had got rid of this older car, got a new one, and then got hit with a few nasty £3-500 bills for labour on top of a new credit agreement, I'd be honestly struggling.

As for blatantly un-maintained vehicles and dodgy MOTs, yes hopefully the wrong-uns will stick out like a sore thumb, but who exactly will be pulling these wrong-uns over with cut-backs and non-24hr Policing?

In regards to upping the price during a depression... think of it like Insurance. You have to pay it every year, thanks for the cash


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

Deano said:


> have you got a vag diesel? if so a few people have fixed the anti shudder valve with elastic bands. I can find a link if thats whats causing it.


Yep.

Basically, the valve has plastic gears in them that shred. It costs a bomb to replace the valve but all it does is stop the shudder at shut down.


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## mark328 (Aug 1, 2010)

Gruffs said:


> Looks like I'm taking my engine warning bulb out at MOT time then.


Did i miss the part that said CEL or EML?


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## TheGav (Feb 11, 2011)

Mine, like most E46's and E36's won't pass because of the Airbag warning light

I can see the dash coming apart soon.


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

mark328 said:


> Did i miss the part that said CEL or EML?


I thought that but i can't see them specifying things like lights and not covering the EML.

Probably under a generic 'if there is a light, it must be off but come on at start up' type condition.


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Trip tdi said:


> Mine rattles when i shut my car off, i;m sure all vag diesels do this.


mine doesnt. it did til i worked the shudder valve free.


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## jomo (Jul 31, 2010)

My mothers Nissan has a airbag warning light that flashes all the time, so thats gonna end up getting wired to the oil pressure light!


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

Is there a full list of checks? Based on that summary in the OP, mine would be fine, apart from the HIDs. Helps having at least 4 MOT friends  (my car has always been safe to pass, but they ignore things like pressed plates etc! Afterall, I could just put normal on for a day and then switch back).

Oh, and an MOT only verifies the vehicle was safe, and fit for the road of day of testing


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## dsolds (Feb 13, 2008)

my 2009 Range Rover would fail on the tyre pressure monitoring system light. Sensor in the spare is missing and it throws a fault at start up. I'm in no rush to spend 100 quid buying one and getting it fitted.

TBH, I can see those MOT insurance policies becoming very popular. I have it for as long as I own the car (hence why I'm not bothered about the TPMS, let the warranty fix it. I think Vauxhall do similar - guaranteed MOT as long as you get it serviced...

The cynic in me says that it's just another ploy to force more of the older cars off the road. Having said that, anything pre 1990 had very little in the way of all teh stuff they seem to be attacking with this. Confused.


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## WP-UK (Apr 24, 2011)

My car would fail as the speedometer fails to illuminate at the moment. Probably a few other issues also


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Deano said:


> mine doesnt. it did til i worked the shudder valve free.


Deano is there a cure for this one at all, i know some people place a delete pipe.

Buddie what have you done to yours, have you got a link please


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

I've not looked at the link but hids aren't a fail. Missing cat isn't an auto fail either. I'll post the new mot testers manual tomorrow at work


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

alexf said:


> I was shocked at how much testers can charge for the MOT now, £50 for God's sake!


So with all the extra items to test how much will a MOT test go up?


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## Hasan1 (Jul 1, 2011)

dew1911 said:


> Finally, get those ****ing awful HID set ups off the road. Shame they can't confiscate the vehicle for them...


With you on that 1


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

Hasan1 said:


> With you on that 1


Well I have fitted them damm awful HIDs and not because I am a chav or any other stupid name, I fitted them because the headlamps on Vectra C Facelift headlamps are total poop on dipped beam and I tried all the various super fantastic law abiding bulbs that didnt do anything but at least the Hid's allowed me to see where I was going at night and not once have I ever been flashed to say I am dazzleing anyone because I bought a proper kit from a well known company ( which will close down now ) and opted for the same spec as OE. I will put the lights back to normal and probably end up damageing the car on a dark country lane just to please the MOT and out spoken no idea moaners


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Shinyvec said:


> Well I have fitted them damm awful HIDs and not because I am a chav or any other stupid name, I fitted them because the headlamps on Vectra C Facelift headlamps are total poop on dipped beam and I tried all the various super fantastic law abiding bulbs that didnt do anything but at least the Hid's allowed me to see where I was going at night and not once have I ever been flashed to say I am dazzleing anyone because I bought a proper kit from a well known company ( which will close down now ) and opted for the same spec as OE. I will put the lights back to normal and probably end up damageing the car on a dark country lane just to please the MOT and out spoken no idea moaners


Sounds like the same reasoning for running front fog lights with headlights


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Shinyvec said:


> Well I have fitted them damm awful HIDs and not because I am a chav or any other stupid name, I fitted them because the headlamps on Vectra C Facelift headlamps are total poop on dipped beam and I tried all the various super fantastic law abiding bulbs that didnt do anything but at least the Hid's allowed me to see where I was going at night and not once have I ever been flashed to say I am dazzleing anyone because I bought a proper kit from a well known company ( which will close down now ) and opted for the same spec as OE. I will put the lights back to normal and probably end up damageing the car on a dark country lane just to please the MOT and out spoken no idea moaners


Like I already said, hids are not an mot fail


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

vroomtshh said:


> Like I already said, hids are not an mot fail


Yes they are


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Still illegal though, mot fail or not.


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

hoikey said:


> Sounds like the same reasoning for running front fog lights with headlights


Now that is total rubbish and its something I dont do and never have unless its foggy as that is the law. I wonder if you are the type that put there rear fogs on when its raining and dazzle everyone behind you but you feel happy that you can be seen


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

bigmc said:


> Still illegal though, mot fail or not.


Which law are you breaking then?


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

hoikey said:


> Yes they are


Like I already said, I'll post the VOSA testers manual in the morning. Not Internet speculation. The official testers manual. Hids are not a fail


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Shinyvec said:


> Now that is total rubbish and its something I dont do and never have unless its foggy as that is the law. I wonder if you are the type that put there rear fogs on when its raining and dazzle everyone behind you but you feel happy that you can be seen


No i dont use rear fogs when raining.

You however have blue sidelights, which are illegal


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

Hids fitted at factory and have all the relevant extras are not ilegal as long as everything works. You can have aftermarket Hids and fit washers and automatic self leveling system and they will be legal, I could do this but with all the stupid Cambus electrics I wont bother and just go back to the standard system. It annoys me when people just slam everything before they know why its been done. Why arnt super high powerd cars banned then with there stupid mpg and top speeds that can not be used on UK roads


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

vroomtshh said:


> Like I already said, I'll post the VOSA testers manual in the morning. Not Internet speculation. The official testers manual. Hids are not a fail


Without washers and self levelling they will fail


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

hoikey said:


> No i dont use rear fogs when raining.
> 
> You however have blue sidelights, which are illegal


They are white actualy, Mtec 501's and they put out a much better light than standard


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

ive just done a quick google, and i cant find anything official saying its come into force yet!

that is adding quite a bit onto the MOT, cant see many doing all that apart from the obvious warning signs on the dash


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## martyp (Oct 24, 2006)

Mine will be okay, need to swap in the OE headlights and bulbs but was gonna do that anyway.

All this Euro stuff really, really annoys me though.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Shinyvec said:


> Hids fitted at factory and have all the relevant extras are not ilegal as long as everything works. You can have aftermarket Hids and fit washers and automatic self leveling system and they will be legal, I could do this but with all the stupid Cambus electrics I wont bother and just go back to the standard system. It annoys me when people just slam everything before they know why its been done. Why arnt super high powerd cars banned then with there stupid mpg and top speeds that can not be used on UK roads


With that reasoning 99% of cars can achieve speeds not allowed on UK roads and would be banned


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

hoikey said:


> Without washers and self levelling they will fail


No they won't. I obviously haven't memorised the wording but it's roughly as follows

If washers are fitted then they must work along with the windscreen washers when the lights are on, or on a separate switch
If a self levelling system is fitted, it must work - as these are difficult to test, if you are unsure, you must give the benefit of the doubt.

I don't have the manual at home but will be sure to post it first thing. Maybe stop a lot of the scaremongering.

But if anything, the testing of hids is a lot clearer. Ow than before


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

I dont see how they can fail a car for having a faulty optional extra (like the tyre pressure monitor). surely they'd then have to fail all cars that dont have it fitted?


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

vroomtshh said:


> No they won't. I obviously haven't memorised the wording but it's roughly as follows
> 
> If washers are fitted then they must work along with the windscreen washers when the lights are on, or on a separate switch
> If a self levelling system is fitted, it must work - as these are difficult to test, if you are unsure, you must give the benefit of the doubt.
> ...


I will leave mine in place until closer to MOT time which is September and I will have a word with a MOT place I always use and the car has always passed with the HIDs in place


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

play nice please fellas.


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Deano said:


> I dont see how they can fail a car for having a faulty optional extra (like the tyre pressure monitor). surely they'd then have to fail all cars that dont have it fitted?


Again, that's not mentioned in the actual manual. The whole Internet seems to be full of nonsense regarding it. Testers have been issued the new manual so I don't see why the real info isn't getting out


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

Blue white colour its the same light as daylight but you will argue with that as well wont you, go and split a hair with someone else


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Shinyvec said:


> Blue white colour its the same light as daylight but you will argue with that as well wont you, go and split a hair with someone else


Lol, I was going on the fact you said your sidelights were blue.


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

cant believe they can test then fail on all of the above else thats alot of fails, though its about time they cracked down on some of the states of cars and mods (not picking on anyone).

Its a step in the right direction but unfortunately regardless of the state of the car still far too many chancers on the road.


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

hoikey said:


> There's no need for that. I was just pointing out your reasoning for having antisocial headlights is similar to the reasoning for using front fogs.


My lights have been set up right and have been bought form a proper company and are the same power as OE, I am not 17 and gone for 1000w Hids as they are stupid and my headlights are aimed correctly as every MOT pass has shown. I have said why I have fitted them and anyone else who has the same car as me will understand why, its so I can see safely while on dipped beam and I have never been flashed to say that I have dazzled anyone


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## jimmy669966 (Sep 25, 2011)

Glad of the new rule on aftermarket HID lights. Quite a few times i've been severely dazzled by these. Long overdue to be banned.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Shinyvec said:


> My lights have been set up right and have been bought form a proper company and are the same power as OE, I am not 17 and gone for 1000w Hids as they are stupid and my headlights are aimed correctly as every MOT pass has shown. I have said why I have fitted them and anyone else who has the same car as me will understand why, its so I can see safely while on dipped beam and I have never been flashed to say that I have dazzled anyone


And they are the same reasons I use fog lights. Extra light on the road, especially helpfull on country roads and also the fact they dont dazzle people. But when I said that you start calling me a ****


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

I am sorry but I thought you were saying that I go round with my fogs on, as you can see I am a bit upset about this new rule as my night time driving is going to become highly umpleasant again and the HID kit was a Christmas present from my wife a few years ago and the fact that they might become bin fodder really niggles me


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

I think we should only panic when the real guidelines get published. That report doesn't read right to me, too many contradictions.


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

hoikey said:


> And they are the same reasons I use fog lights. Extra light on the road, especially helpfull on country roads and also the fact they dont dazzle people. But when I said that you start calling me a ****


I have been told that the use of front Fog Lights is illegal unless its foggy or the conditions warrent there use and I know a few guys that have had there hands rapped for this


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

lets not go there on fogs, whole different discussion plus they have nothing to do with the mot rules.


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## dew1911 (Jun 9, 2009)

Shinyvec said:


> I am sorry but I thought you were saying that I go round with my fogs on, as you can see I am a bit upset about this new rule as my night time driving is going to become highly umpleasant again and the HID kit was a Christmas present from my wife a few years ago and the fact that they might become bin fodder really niggles me


Still illegal, end of.

I got a pocket knife a few years ago as a present, I can't go waving it down the streets through...


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Shinyvec said:


> I am sorry but I thought you were saying that I go round with my fogs on, as you can see I am a bit upset about this new rule as my night time driving is going to become highly umpleasant again and the HID kit was a Christmas present from my wife a few years ago and the fact that they might become bin fodder really niggles me


No problem. I apologise for winding you up.

As you've mentioned, the best thing to do is just replace the lights for the mot. Leave ballasts etc... Where they are and just do the bulb to save time and gagging about after the mot


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

The next things will be wheels that arnt Factory Fitted or tyres that are bigger than the car originally had. I think blacked out back lights should be jumped on unless purpose made as some are done with normal black paint and the light can hardly be seen


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

alexf said:


> Is your car going to pass?
> 
> http://uk.autoblog.com/2012/01/04/changes-to-mot-rules-in-2012-are-you-ready/
> 
> :driver: Let me know, I wouldn't mind doing a quick tally up :wave:


My cars will always pass....got a realistic MOT man!!


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

hoikey said:


> No problem. I apologise for winding you up.
> 
> As you've mentioned, the best thing to do is just replace the lights for the mot. Leave ballasts etc... Where they are and just do the bulb to save time and gagging about after the mot


That is a swine of a job to keep doing that as there in no room to get behind the lights and you need to take the bumper off


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Shinyvec said:


> The next things will be wheels that arnt Factory Fitted or tyres that are bigger than the car originally had. I think blacked out back lights should be jumped on unless purpose made as some are done with normal black paint and the light can hardly be seen


Tinted lights are included in the new manual. 50% light must be output from memory. God knows how your meant to test that though


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Shinyvec said:


> That is a swine of a job to keep doing that as there in no room to get behind the lights and you need to take the bumper off


Only once a year though and means you can see at night time 
I had HID headlights fitted to my mk3 golf and never had anyone flash at me for being startled (apart from when I setup my alarm wrong and the welcome home headlights came on when i locked my car at the side of a main road lol, full beam and lots of oncoming cars)


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

vroomtshh said:


> Tinted lights are included in the new manual. 50% light must be output from memory. God knows how your meant to test that though


Remove a bulb and use one of them window tint light things?


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## jimmy669966 (Sep 25, 2011)

The thing is you can now get 120% Xenon H4/H7 bulbs that are, as the name suggests, over double the brightness of OE bulbs. So anyone who has issues with doing lots of night driving can just use those instead of aftermarket HID's. Granted they might not be quite as bright as HID, but if you can't see sufficiently with them, your eye sight is so bad you probably shouldn't be driving.


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## Hasan1 (Jul 1, 2011)

Shinyvec said:


> Well I have fitted them damm awful HIDs and not because I am a chav or any other stupid name, I fitted them because the headlamps on Vectra C Facelift headlamps are total poop on dipped beam and I tried all the various super fantastic law abiding bulbs that didnt do anything but at least the Hid's allowed me to see where I was going at night and not once have I ever been flashed to say I am dazzleing anyone because I bought a proper kit from a well known company ( which will close down now ) and opted for the same spec as OE. I will put the lights back to normal and probably end up damageing the car on a dark country lane just to please the MOT and out spoken no idea moaners


So I'm a no idea moaner. Only cos someone with HIDs driving in my direction stops me seeing where I'm going. But that's ok they can see where there going


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

Hasan1 said:


> So I'm a no idea moaner. Only cos someone with HIDs driving in my direction stops me seeing where I'm going. But that's ok they can see where there going


Not everyone has 1000,000 watt hids fitted, the older you get the more sensible you see things hence why I had the same output HIDs as OE and there not blinding at all, they just let me see on unlit roads at night due to inferior standard lights. My lights have the same brightness as my Dads Omega with original Hids


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

HID's are going to be illegal if not fitted with washers and self levelling. The legislation is available online. Change 'may' for 'are allowed to'. It's 'may' as in 'permission' not 'may' as in 'might'. Mine's goin in next week so I expect it to pass as it's only 3 years old and fully main dealer serviced... We'll see though. 

There is another thread on here where I went into the legislation in detail.


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

Just bung your MOT tester a few quid :lol:

Is there anything about remaps in the new rules? I thought they were introducing something about them.


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Nanoman said:


> HID's are going to be illegal if not fitted with washers and self levelling. The legislation is available online. Change 'may' for 'are allowed to'. It's 'may' as in 'permission' not 'may' as in 'might'. Mine's goin in next week so I expect it to pass as it's only 3 years old and fully main dealer serviced... We'll see though.
> 
> There is another thread on here where I went into the legislation in detail.


No they're not


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

vroomtshh said:


> No they're not


That's not how I interpret it. We'll soon find out.



> Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge 3. (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps *are allowed to* be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or
> headlamp self levelling system.


Does it make more sense now? I stand to be corrected.

Also, DFT.gov.uk say..



> In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
> 
> The following is the legal rationale:
> 
> ...





gr33n said:


> Just bung your MOT tester a few quid :lol:
> 
> Is there anything about remaps in the new rules? I thought they were introducing something about them.


No. This is another rumour. It mentions illegal remaps as it's a europe wide thing and some countries want remaps made illegal. If a remap isn't illegal then it won't fail the MOT. In the UK remaps aren't illegal so it won't fail.


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

What about the Towhitch and 12v electics check, that will catch loads out as I see loads of dangling 12v sockets and home made looking setups. I can honestly say I am ok on that as I use mine alot for my Caravan and Trailer and do regular checks on it myself anyway. How many builders vans / pickups do you see with there Towbars and 12V sockets coverd in concreate or smashed and little wires hanging out


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## dew1911 (Jun 9, 2009)

Hasan1 said:


> So I'm a no idea moaner. Only cos someone with HIDs driving in my direction stops me seeing where I'm going. But that's ok they can see where there going


Likewise, I work nights driving, the amount of times I've wanted to run some little ****** off the road with his purple lights pointing everywhere but where they are meant too. Personally anyone caught with aftermarket HIDs would get an instant £60 and 3 points...


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Nanoman said:


> That's not how I interpret it. We'll soon find out.
> 
> Does it make more sense now? I stand to be corrected.
> 
> ...


I'm only going with what's in the official VOSA testers manual, not stuff I can find on the Internet


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

dew1911 said:


> Likewise, I work nights driving, the amount of times I've wanted to run some little ****** off the road with his purple lights pointing everywhere but where they are meant too. Personally anyone caught with aftermarket HIDs would get an instant £60 and 3 points...


Purple would be a fail. Light may have a blue tinge, but will be mainly white


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

vroomtshh said:


> I'm only going with what's in the official VOSA testers manual, not stuff I can find on the Internet


I'm going by the badly worded vosa testers manual and website of the people that write the laws.


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Nanoman said:


> I'm going by the badly worded vosa testers manual and website of the people that write the laws.


The manual doesn't say what you quoted though


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

vroomtshh said:


> The manual doesn't say what you quoted though


Exactly my point (and as I already pointed out and you quoted). 'May' can be interpreted in a couple of ways. If you read the law and use common sense it's a fail.


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Nanoman said:


> Exactly my point (and as I already pointed out and you quoted). 'May' can be interpreted in a couple of ways. If you read the law and use common sense it's a fail.


No it doesn't. It doesn't say 'may'. 
It says - IF levelling and washers are fitted, then they must work.

The manual is very clear on hids and what will and won't pass.

And I'm unaware of any 'laws' regarding hids specifically


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## alexf (May 23, 2009)

It took me an awfully long time to find any info whatsoever on this, nevermind DfT, they were wholly irrelevant. The AA was the only reputable source for this data. It's a shame that the officials have not given away anything yet, but I'll go out on a limb and say you should prepare for these changes whatever the weather. 

No word on any price increases yet either, but all in good time I'm sure...


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

vroomtshh said:


> And I'm unaware of any 'laws' regarding hids specifically


This is from Hella technical dept.

All halogen lamps are tested and approved with the lens and reflector designed around halogen filament bulbs working to very precise tolerances.
The bulbs in these HID kits are not tested with any headlamp. Fitting this
'upgrade' will not create the correct beam pattern, causing glare in some parts and not enough light output in others. Also the gas in a xenon bulb is ignited by a ballast unit, using 27,000 volts, so there is a serious danger of electrocution or melting of any wiring with an untested ballast unit.

You are correct that all vehicles with xenon lighting have to have headlamp washer systems and automatic levelling fitted by law, but this does not overide the basic approval certification of the lamp itself.

The Department of Transport are very clear on the matter and state:

"Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal. .... In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated".

The trouble with forums is that they're not really thinking about endangering the lives of other road users or other legalities. It's all about the look.

Hope this is of some help.

Kind regards

**************
Technical Advisor

Hella Limited

Wildmere Industrial Estate

Banbury, Oxfordshire

OX16 3JU

England, UK

Tel: +44 (0)1295 225622

Fax UK only: 0800 7832571

Fax: +44 (0)1295 225478

Email: ***********@hella.com

Web: http://www.hella.co.uk


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

I didn't realise hella made laws?

The road traffic Act states that it's an offence to fit parts that are not legal. His bulb kits are not illegal parts, therefore your not breaking any laws. 

And you won't fail an mot since the manual is very clear on aftermarket hids. 

I'm bored of the thread now. I've said it half a dozen times already. I'll post the manual in the morning. No Internet speculation, no googling for stuff, no crap from a lighting manufacturer - just pure VOSA fact


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

vroomtshh said:


> No it doesn't. It doesn't say 'may'.
> It says - IF levelling and washers are fitted, then they must work.
> 
> The manual is very clear on hids and what will and won't pass.
> ...


So apparently the manufacturers are quoting the same law as I am... Anyway...

Before the 'if' bit it says...


> (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system.


I read that as "LED or HID dipped headlamps are allowed to be fitted only with 1) headlamp washers and 2) suspension or headlamp self levelling system".

As I said we'll soon find out.

Also, I'm quoting the actual manual. Also, if they're not type approved then they're illegal.

Also... Looking at the sites that sell these kits manufacturers are saying "Suitable for off road use only." I wonder why if they're legal...


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

Its a shame the MOT test didnt put a limit to the power of HIds rather than stopping aftermarket ones. Like I have a few times already said, I have mine fiited to aid my very poor standard lights mainly dipped beam and with the hids fitted I can see where I am going but they are not as powerfull in the reach as my standard fullbeam. My hids are the same power as OE ones and are a white with a slight blue tint to them subject to angle and no purple,green red, pink,orange and other colours are present that you get with very high power Hids and every the car has passed every MOT since they were fitted and they check for beam alignment etc. My kit is a decent kit with Canbus warning canellers and all the relevant equipment needed and are 3500K which is the same or even less than the standard Hids on a Omega


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

bigmc said:


> This is from Hella technical dept.
> 
> All halogen lamps are tested and approved with the lens and reflector designed around halogen filament bulbs working to very precise tolerances.
> The bulbs in these HID kits are not tested with any headlamp. Fitting this
> 'upgrade' will not create the correct beam pattern, causing glare in some parts and not enough light output in others. Also the gas in a xenon bulb is ignited by a ballast unit, using 27,000 volts, so there is a serious danger of electrocution or melting of any wiring with an untested ballast unit.


Some good scare tactics from Hella there.

Yes if you get some dodgy backdoor set you are asking for trouble like anything but there are also kits out there that have TUV/CE approval part of which is making sure all the wiring in the kits is 100% safe. Many of the newer kits take LESS power than the standard kits.

While they talk about about this testing about correct beam patterns etc there is no official criteria for this at all. The only official tests are those in an SVA or new car design tests (can't remember the proper name).


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

Nanoman said:


> So apparently the manufacturers are quoting the same law as I am... Anyway...
> 
> Before the 'if' bit it says...
> 
> ...


Why would you use _may_ which has different ways of being interpreted if they mean must. It would have been easy to say

Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge 3. (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps must be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or
headlamp self levelling system.

If thats what they really mean.

I think its been specifically written so they can say they are stopping people having aftermarket HIDs but the fact is they aren't really.

Similar to having this statement

_Where such systems are fitted, they must work; however, it is accepted that it may not be possible to readily determine the functioning of self levelling systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt must be given._

So they just look and think - yeah they about right - tick. Completely pointless check


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Rob_Quads said:


> Why would you use _may_ which has different ways of being interpreted if they mean must. It would have been easy to say
> 
> Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge 3. (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps must be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or
> headlamp self levelling system.
> ...


Maybe it's because they're already illegal for use on roads..?


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## mr kuryakin (Nov 20, 2005)

if you have hid's fitted you need a level sensor and headlight wash fitted or it will fail the mot.im a tester and i was asking the vosa guy today and you need them fitted,the reason is that when the car is loaded it will dazzle oncoming vehicles also when the headlight lens is dirty it scatters the pattern and dazzles.when its mot time just go back to normal bulbs then refit the hid's after it passes.as long as your car passes the emissions test then a remap makes no difference plus alot of manufacturers offer remaps in some form.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

mr kuryakin said:


> if you have hid's fitted you need a level sensor and headlight wash fitted or it will fail the mot.im a tester and i was asking the vosa guy today and you need them fitted,the reason is that when the car is loaded it will dazzle oncoming vehicles also when the headlight lens is dirty it scatters the pattern and dazzles.when its mot time just go back to normal bulbs then refit the hid's after it passes.as long as your car passes the emissions test then a remap makes no difference plus alot of manufacturers offer remaps in some form.


Thanks for confirming what we have been saying dude.


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## Hair Bear (Nov 4, 2007)

Don't get the dash light thing at all?

Most dashboards have all lights available to cover all models - it's only the ECU that governs which ones to light according to the vehicle spec'!

Them testers will need to know their sh!t lol!


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

mr kuryakin said:


> if you have hid's fitted you need a level sensor and headlight wash fitted or it will fail the mot.im a tester and i was asking the vosa guy today and you need them fitted,the reason is that when the car is loaded it will dazzle oncoming vehicles also when the headlight lens is dirty it scatters the pattern and dazzles.when its mot time just go back to normal bulbs then refit the hid's after it passes.as long as your car passes the emissions test then a remap makes no difference plus alot of manufacturers offer remaps in some form.


I might aswell remove them them just before the MOT as it isnt a quick job really due to the Vec C having no room to do anything bulb related unless you have 12" needle thin fingers that are doubled jointed too. I was also going to have my DPF removed via remap for just that and physicaly on the exhaust to just to do away with a big bill threat and get some better mpg and full power but I dont know how a 56 plate will go on with the MOT on this. The car is already remapped by EDS and emission wise its always passed and has been alot lower on the various levels on emissions then the fail limit


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

mr kuryakin said:


> if you have hid's fitted you need a level sensor and headlight wash fitted or it will fail the mot.im a tester and i was asking the vosa guy today and you need them fitted,the reason is that when the car is loaded it will dazzle oncoming vehicles also when the headlight lens is dirty it scatters the pattern and dazzles.


It's alright... Mr knowitall and his pal will be along soon to tell you you're wrong.


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## jebus (Jun 2, 2009)

Wow there are a lot of people argueing over hids come on this is a friendly forum no use getting angry over these things.
I don't think they should be made illegal, not all of them are blinding everybody but they should be better fitted in many cases, the self leveling systems on most cars get caught out by bumps etc in the road and give the impression people are flashing lights and so on.
As long as the head light unit itself is sutiable for the HiD unit, the beam pattern is correct and the color of the light is correct then that is fine.

Sadly with HiD's and so many things with cars that we have to put up with today the few that use badly made parts etc that do cause problems for others mean everybody has to suffer from new rules etc.

Anyway every time something like this comes up give it a year and some smart dude will come up with something that makes everything nice and legal.

I guess am lucky that the next car i plan on buying is going to have HiD/xenon/bi-xenons or what ever you want to call them fitted as standard, and as long as the various washers/level sensors work i have nothing to worry about.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Hair Bear said:


> Don't get the dash light thing at all?
> 
> Most dashboards have all lights available to cover all models - it's only the ECU that governs which ones to light according to the vehicle spec'!
> 
> Them testers will need to know their sh!t lol!


Thats a good point actually.


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## Lloyd71 (Aug 21, 2008)

Mine should pass again then  None of this new fancy stuff to fail on, but still young enough to not have fallen apart! :lol: My old 106 would be buggered though, the front doors were hanging off and could be opened almost 180°.


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## M.O.S (Dec 26, 2008)

Wonder what they'll do with removable tow bars?


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## Elliott19864 (May 11, 2008)

Pathetic.

I will have to find a friendly tester or my car will get used as a track car.

Dickheads.


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## Weazel (May 29, 2010)

I swear it is just England that is being mugged off with the MOT laws and supposed new European laws apparently, when i was in spain this year i saw absolute sh***ers on the road?
Im all for safe vehicles being on the road but to me personally MOT certificates are only as good as the day they are issued! I have had many cars which have needed work doing a month down the line!
Oh well on another note none of this will effect me as all my current cars are before 1990 lol


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Nanoman said:


> It's alright... Mr knowitall and his pal will be along soon to tell you you're wrong.












If anyone can tell me how to post a PDF document, I'll put the full thing up

If the guy above is an MOT tester, can he tell us which garage he works for?


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## Richf (Apr 26, 2008)

Many Lexus models had factory fitted hids but no levelling or wash system!


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## Captain Pugwash (Mar 23, 2011)

Bit of a heated debated. End of the day people will do the same as they do now with incorrectly spaced number plates or even wheels and tyres......swap whatever it is prior to the MOT. And that will be myself with the hid bulbs for my car as well. Simply the calibra has projection head lamps that are very poor at lighting the road ahead [must have used them it that chaps Vectra] and if they are illegal then I will just be another one on the road as those with illegal number plates, drive with front fog lights, one head light or bald tyres or use a mobile phone while driving ...don't wear a seat belt etc etc

Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using Tapatalk


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Richf said:


> Many Lexus models had factory fitted hids but no levelling or wash system!


My Seat Ibiza is the same. Washers can;t be fitted because of where the intercooler piping runs, but they still came with HID lights


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

vroomtshh said:


> My Seat Ibiza is the same. Washers can;t be fitted because of where the intercooler piping runs, but they still came with HID lights


what year is your Ibiza?


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Hair Bear said:


> Don't get the dash light thing at all?
> 
> Most dashboards have all lights available to cover all models - it's only the ECU that governs which ones to light according to the vehicle spec'!
> 
> Them testers will need to know their sh!t lol!


That is what I was thinking.... surely the testers are going to need to know the exact spec and all the options fitted on the cars?!?!?!

Unless they already do?!?!!?



I mean let's say you take your car in and it had the very rare, super dooper GTFY - ATS traction/stability control fitted...

and lets say the bulb has stopped working....

Since the "space" is already there, but wouldn't light up in a car without this option... how do they know to fail you!?!?!?

:thumb:


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

grizzle said:


> what year is your ibiza?


05/2005


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

The Cueball said:


> That is what I was thinking.... surely the testers are going to need to know the exact spec and all the options fitted on the cars?!?!?!
> 
> Unless they already do?!?!!?
> 
> ...


Theres nothing in the manual about dash lights other than airbag lights and EML


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

vroomtshh said:


> If anyone can tell me how to post a PDF document, I'll put the full thing up


 MOT Manual


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

vroomtshh said:


> 05/2005


Should have headlight washers if they were factory fit xenons.


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> Should have headlight washers if they were factory fit xenons.


No it shouldn;t. Like I already said, the washers can't be fitted on a Cupra because of the intercooler pipework. So they still offered xenons as an option, but with no washers


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Rob_Quads said:


> MOT Manual


Thank you :thumb:

Everything with a black line in front of it is new


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

vroomtshh said:


> Which law are you breaking then?





hoikey said:


> Remove a bulb and use one of them window tint light things?


MOT stations are not required to (wont) have these so it can't be tested.



Nanoman said:


> No. This is another rumour. It mentions illegal remaps as it's a europe wide thing and some countries want remaps made illegal. If a remap isn't illegal then it won't fail the MOT. In the UK remaps aren't illegal so it won't fail.


Drilling a hole in you sump and oil pouring out will not fail the MOT.....but it's certainly illegal to drive around in that condition; don't think all things legal/illegal and tested at MOT time ...and don't think and MOT makes your car legal to drive.



Hair Bear said:


> Don't get the dash light thing at all?
> 
> Most dashboards have all lights available to cover all models - it's only the ECU that governs which ones to light according to the vehicle spec'!
> 
> Them testers will need to know their sh!t lol!


Test stations (the one i use at least) has a big sheet on the wall with all car models and specs and the sequence the lights come on/go off on start up, e.g Subaru Impreza, 2003-2005 ABS light switches off after 5 seconds... This was there 6months ago.



CupraElliott said:


> Pathetic.
> 
> I will have to find a friendly tester or my car will get used as a track car.
> 
> Dickheads.


Most tracks require you to have a valid MOT?



Weazel said:


> to me personally MOT certificates are only as good as the day they are issued! I have had many cars which have needed work doing a month down the line!
> Oh well on another note none of this will effect me as all my current cars are before 1990 lol


Not just to you, that's the same in law, the only part that should be good for longer than a day is the corrosion which is 1 or 3 months iirc.


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> No issues here :wave:
> 
> Get the rules tighter I say, get the dodgers and the chavs off the road....
> 
> ...


I think it should be a part of the new rules, if you're a chav & own a car YOU FAIL! :thumb:

Wearing a Burberry hat whilst driving should also be a criminal offence  :thumb:

I only wish the country was as strict with poor driving, which I think accounts for more accidents/ issues on the roads than mechanical failures :thumb:


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## Strothow (Oct 29, 2009)

Shinyvec said:


> My lights have been set up right and have been bought form a proper company and are the same power as OE, I am not 17 and gone for 1000w Hids as they are stupid and my headlights are aimed correctly as every MOT pass has shown. I have said why I have fitted them and anyone else who has the same car as me will understand why, its so I can see safely while on dipped beam and I have never been flashed to say that I have dazzled anyone


Standard lights on the Vectra are utter sh1te, as are mine on a Corsa so can understand you using HIDs!



jimmy669966 said:


> The thing is you can now get 120% Xenon H4/H7 bulbs that are, as the name suggests, over double the brightness of OE bulbs. So anyone who has issues with doing lots of night driving can just use those instead of aftermarket HID's. Granted they might not be quite as bright as HID, but if you can't see sufficiently with them, your eye sight is so bad you probably shouldn't be driving.


Had to put the upgraded bulbs in mine in an attempt to see better, granted, they are much better, but not twice as bright...think they are less effective in projecter lenses but maybe thats just me!


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

vroomtshh said:


> No it shouldn;t. Like I already said, the washers can't be fitted on a Cupra because of the intercooler pipework. So they still offered xenons as an option, but with no washers


Jezzz...what a load of bull they never offered xenon's on a Cupra for that reason, so basically you are like the rest who have a HID kit, come MOT time it will fail and your car with be deemed un roadworthy.


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

What is the point of headlight washers? 

Its not as if you clean you lights with a little squirt of water. Just do the same on the windscreen without the wipers and it just blurs everything which you could argue distorts the light even worse!


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> Jezzz...what a load of bull they never offered xenon's on a Cupra for that reason, so basically you are like the rest who have a HID kit, come MOT time it will fail and your car with be deemed un roadworthy.


So is my car a one off? because they offered xenons on it.

Come MOT time, my car will pass just fine, seeing how HIDs are not an MOT failure


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

any dirt etc could affect the light beam pattern, hence the washers to supposedly clear them, i dunno thats just what i'm told.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

They're generally high pressure on the headlights.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

vroomtshh said:


> So is my car a one off? because they offered xenons on it.
> 
> Come MOT time, my car will pass just fine, seeing how HIDs are not an MOT failure


look mate i'm not interested in the MOT i have xenons, washers and self leveling.

My dig at you is your car did NOT have xenons as an option.


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

Grizzle said:


> washers to supposedly clear them, .


Exactly - its a great theory but they never work. Even a presure washer doesn't clean some cars let alone a little squirt of water.


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> any dirt etc could affect the light beam pattern, hence the washers to supposedly clear them, i dunno thats just what i'm told.


Not just dirt. I had to remove my headlight protectors recently, as (technically) they could affect the beam pattern and I couldn;t be bothered arguing with a traffic cop


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> look mate i'm not interested in the MOT i have xenons, washers and self leveling.
> 
> My dig at you is your car did NOT have xenons as an option.


I'll dig out the original receipt for you when I get home. My car DID have xenons as an option. TBH I'm not even sure why I'm arguing with you. I bought the car, I specified the xenons, and I paid the £400 to replace one of them recently.

I think I'm slightly more qualified than you to say what came with my car


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

jimmy669966 said:


> Glad of the new rule on aftermarket HID lights. Quite a few times i've been severely dazzled by these. Long overdue to be banned.


They're not being banned, you can have them so long as they comply with the new regs i.e, they have auto levelling, headlamp washers and aren't deep blue. A car with OEM xenons will still fail if the headlamp washers or levellers aren't working properly.


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

Laurie.J.M said:


> levellers aren't working properly.


Well not quite :lol:

The problem is I've seen a number of newer cars i.e. golfs that have had stock HIDs but they are just as blinding as many aftermarket kits so those thinking this will fix all the problem, far from it.


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

Richf said:


> Many Lexus models had factory fitted hids but no levelling or wash system!


Those cars are mostly grey imports I think, before in Japan cars weren't required to have any sort of headlamp levelling no matter what sort of lighting was fitted, don't know if its still like that now. Levellers and Washers also aren't required in the US so if I went to an importer and bought a new Camaro or Challenger with OEM bi-xenons fitted it would fail an MOT here.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

vroomtshh said:


> *I'll dig out the original receipt for you when I get home*. My car DID have xenons as an option. TBH I'm not even sure why I'm arguing with you. I bought the car, I specified the xenons, and I paid the £400 to replace one of them recently.
> 
> I think I'm slightly more qualified than you to say what came with my car


please do i look forward to it.


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## mr kuryakin (Nov 20, 2005)

for car manufacturers to get type approval for britain hid needs washers and level adjusters.thats why they come from the factory with them.i know its a pain in the **** but they are doing because there are so many kits fitted incorrectly and dazzle on coming traffic.saying you find friendly tester is a waste of time as vosa are coming down hard on test centers.they are spot checking test centers more and more its not worth it any more.ive seen people caught out.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

vroomtshh said:


> I'll dig out the original receipt for you when I get home. My car DID have xenons as an option. TBH I'm not even sure why I'm arguing with you. I bought the car, I specified the xenons, and I paid the £400 to replace one of them recently.
> 
> I think I'm slightly more qualified than you to say what came with my car


Still no reply to my comment then 

OWNED!


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Gruffs said:


> Looks like I'm taking my engine warning bulb out at MOT time then.


Fault code readers often have the clear light function.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

james_death said:


> Fault code readers often have the clear light function.


Unless it clears the fault and repairs it it'll still illuminate the lamp when it detects a fault.


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## bizzyfingers (Jul 30, 2009)

Gruffs said:


> Looks like I'm taking my engine warning bulb out at MOT time then.


they check it with the ignition


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

bigmc said:


> Unless it clears the fault and repairs it it'll still illuminate the lamp when it detects a fault.


It can retain a fault in the ecu until ecu reset which removes all the codes, im just saying could be an old fault or simply an intermitent one.

The VW are known for them cars can run fine but still shows, the polo has this once in a blue moon and a couple of runs later clears the light.

VW even say if car wont start wait 30 seconds and try again and it does the trick.

However im getting a fault code reader as suspect the lambda sensor is developing the fault.


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> Still no reply to my comment then
> 
> OWNED!


You'll get ur reply. I just have a life. And can't scan at home. 
Pretty far from owned you sad git


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

vroomtshh said:


> You'll get ur reply. I just have a life. And can't scan at home.
> Pretty far from owned you sad git


ooppss now we have resorted to name calling, who's the sad one now?


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

bigmc said:


> Unless it clears the fault and repairs it it'll still illuminate the lamp when it detects a fault.


I can see were you are coming from.

Example: i had a purge valve problem it didn't affect engine running or the power but didn't show the EML plugged in 3 of my diagnostic machines and they all showed a code.

Maybe it stores a code if its not that big a priority as say an injector or that?? (just an idea)


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

good god all over a set of HID's jesus. oh well if you want them do it properly or not at all. 

i mean i have halogens with washers but no self levellers i ofc dont need them...

as for the light thing well tbh i know airbag codes are mostly a pain in the backside but tbh if in an accident your an idiot if you dont get them sorted because they wont deploy. As for EML lights/PS lights i know some cars like any computer can start badly once in a blue moon and usually turn it off after a full switch off.

I dont think childish name calling helps either or provides any input to this discussion.


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> ooppss now we have resorted to name calling, who's the sad one now?


It's not name calling. If u have nothing better to do on a Friday than rush home and scan stuff in for the benefit of the Internet, then your a sad git, simple as that


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