# touching up 3stage paint?



## gttjames (Jul 23, 2009)

So guys iv had my car for 3years, i got it on its 2year birthday virtually and low miles, it had the mark pictured below on the bumper corner part, i was told about it at purchase and owner was sure he hadn't caught it, which i quiete believe as you can see black in the middle then white/light (primer?) around it.

I guess it was a corner that had a light coat at factory and has since faded as was so thin? Obviously dealership wernt interested in 'warranty' so iv just lived with it. In the least 3 years it has got abit bigger.. again no rubs, just general washing, allways stayed away from it when polishing.

Whole car is very good and all oe paint, so seems a waste to paint a bumper if not needed and have a chance of it being painted bad/not matching etc.

Question im asking is, can i touch this up to a good standard? Car is a reanult megane r26, colour... 3 stage liquid yellow.

not sure how good picture is, but i can see it, middle left of picture, and please ignore rest of the dirt, only picture i can find of the mark


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## carfix (May 28, 2010)

Any decent Smart repairer should be able to blow it in without going bigger than say a car licence disc on it. Price, well up in the impoverished Northwest i'd charge £70 but down south it may be higher.


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## Billcc (Mar 1, 2013)

If its just that small mark you could get a close match done for a touch up, we just had a customer come in wanting a touch up for part of a motorbike which was a three stage, he said he just wanted to touch it in so as close as you can which was fine (it was a candy red). And it was no trouble.

Best to take it to your local paint supplier because its a metameric colour, they will need to match it in daylight, would look completely different matching it indoors.


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Stay away from smart repairers mate. Seriously. 

It'll come back twice as bad as that. Take it to the best bodyshop you can find and see what they think. Tell them you want to avoid painting the full bumper as the stickers are fortunes and it seems a waste for a small issue. 

The guy should be able to suggest doing a smart style repair hopefully keeping it to the last edge with some soft-edge masking. 

Touching up isn't going to help that mate. It needs the bumper painting but if a bodyshop is competent enough they should be able to accommodate you even if it won't be 100% perfect the customer shouldn't notice the blow in. 

Search on here for "Protek" to see some of our past work.


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## Billcc (Mar 1, 2013)

Yes for the whole mark where it is black a touch up wouldn't work, would look terrible.


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## robdcfc (Sep 17, 2012)

gally said:


> Stay away from smart repairers mate. Seriously.
> 
> It'll come back twice as bad as that. Take it to the best bodyshop you can find and see what they think. Tell them you want to avoid painting the full bumper as the stickers are fortunes and it seems a waste for a small issue.
> 
> ...


Mate, you seem to be contradicting yourself there, "stay away from repairs" and "ask for a smart style repair"

What do you think the difference in products is?? 
Give you a clue feck all!

Running scared from smart repairers are we?

I have painted this colour several times both as smart and in the booth and it will need at least half a bumper doing due to being a 3ct colour.

The stickers are expensive but if you want the job doing right they need to come off.

Rob


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

I agree. Hence me saying for perfection the bumper needs fully painted. 

There is a world of difference between a smart repair in a tent in snow and rain and wind and in a controlled bodyshop/booth etc. 

Colour matching and so many other parts to the job can be do e do much better in a proper bodyshop. Hence my comment about finding a proper good bodyshop.


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## robdcfc (Sep 17, 2012)

gally said:


> I agree. Hence me saying for perfection the bumper needs fully painted.
> 
> There is a world of difference between a smart repair in a tent in snow and rain and wind and in a controlled bodyshop/booth etc.
> 
> Colour matching and so many other parts to the job can be do e do much better in a proper bodyshop. Hence my comment about finding a proper good bodyshop.


Wrong, a well finished smart repair is just as good as a booth repair, I have done both and they are both with the same materials and finished to the same standard.

We don't do anything more than a corner on a mobile basis these days as we have the booth and we can work more efficiently in the unit on multiple vehicles at the same time.

The above job could be done mobile no problem but as I already said for me I would want to replace the stickers.

Why is colour matching better in a BS? Smart have ideal conditions to check( natural daylight) in the booth we have daylight bulbs, I have on numerous occasions taken a job outside to check it when it looked fine in the booth only to stick it back in to redo it!


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Honestly? Because most smart repairers, and I mean most have no clue what they're doing. That's a great thing for us though. 

The fact you use a booth etc shows you know what can and cannot be achieved. 

How will you get the paint to cure whilst outside in a tent?


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

robdcfc said:


> Wrong, a well finished smart repair is just as good as a booth repair, I have done both and they are both with the same materials and finished to the same standard.
> 
> We don't do anything more than a corner on a mobile basis these days as we have the booth and we can work more efficiently in the unit on multiple vehicles at the same time.
> 
> The above job could be done mobile no problem but as I already said for me I would want to replace the stickers.


You think you can replicate a finish in a tent in a carpark to one in a fully operational booth?


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## robdcfc (Sep 17, 2012)

View attachment 29906










Yep


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## robdcfc (Sep 17, 2012)

Before, this was done on a mobile basis.


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Oh my. I'm out. I remembered why I avoided this section. 

Good luck with your bumper OP.


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## robdcfc (Sep 17, 2012)

Maybe it's because we(smart repairers) are fed up with bodyshops slagging us all off, there are good and bad in both sides of the industry and we could all make a better living if we looked after each other!


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

But you're recommending a process which is notoriously bad and can be bought by a man in the street with zero experience. It's not going to end well for the OP. 

You've already admitted you have use of a booth on occasion. How many smart repairers have that access? 1%.

Smart repairers give themselves a bad name. It's not even the customer that notices the bad job, that's the frustrating part, they are over the moon. £150 and the guy painted the side of my car now it's all shiny. They don't know where the serious flaws are or what they should be looking for unless the colour match is black and white they're happy. 

Sadly even with a friend and another forum friend I couldn't with confidence or conviction ever recommend a smart repair.


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## Aaran (Sep 18, 2007)

gally said:


> But you're recommending a process which is notoriously bad and can be bought by a man in the street with zero experience. It's not going to end well for the OP.
> 
> .


it works the exact same way form a guy painting out of a shed of unit, if his work its crap its going to be crap. a booth or unit wont make the quality of work improve.

i agree a booth does make things alot easier (lower dust, temp control, better lighting) but its not the be all and end all of painting.

all my cars have been painted free air in an open air shed, and tbh the finish on those is alot better than i see coming out of most body-shops (you do get crap in the clear which means lots of flatting but we flat off all the time anyway).

its the guy with the gun that gets the finish. not the £10k booth, not the £500 gun, or clear that costs £300 a lt :lol:


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## floydlloyd (Feb 24, 2013)

Aaran said:


> it works the exact same way form a guy painting out of a shed of unit, if his work its crap its going to be crap. a booth or unit wont make the quality of work improve.
> 
> i agree a booth does make things alot easier (lower dust, temp control, better lighting) but its not the be all and end all of painting.
> 
> ...


I agree. Whilest we dont use an oven, we built an insulated spray room ourselves. And our quality of work is second to none.


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## robdcfc (Sep 17, 2012)

gally said:


> Sadly even with a friend and another forum friend I couldn't with confidence or conviction ever recommend a smart repair.


You did in your first post as already pointed out!


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## robdcfc (Sep 17, 2012)

gally said:


> But you're recommending a process which is notoriously bad and can be bought by a man in the street with zero experience. It's not going to end well for the op


Same as a guy with enough cash can set up a bodyshop with no experience!

Notoriously bad? Do you know how many smart repairs are carried out each year?? Small percentage that are bad, but pushed as such by idiots on Internet forums.

I see and rectify poor bodyshop jobs does that means that bodyshops are notoriously poor?

Each and every individual is different, there standards and techniques vary and the end product will be of varying quality.

Yes there are poor repairers out there mainly due to them buying a cheap set up off eBay and doing it on the side at the weekend. I have made a living from this for the last 10 years and continue to have people recommend and come back to me each week.

We work on cars from £100-£250,000 now do you think I'd do the top end of that if smart was as crap as you believe??

Without sounding like a fool, can you actually do the job yourself as I believe you are an estimator not a painter? I don't mind some criticism from someone if they themselves can actually do the job!

Rob


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

gally said:


> Oh my. I'm out. I remembered why I avoided this section.
> 
> Good luck with your bumper OP.


It seems to me you suddenly remembered you're tarring everybody in an industry with the same brush without making any allowances for those that actually know what they're doing that can carry out good work.


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## Hasan1 (Jul 1, 2011)

If you ask the right things you will be ok. Ask how long they have been doing it and if they have any of there work you can look at and you will be ok


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

The fact Rob has admitted using a booth for some jobs if he needs to says it all for me. If you don't need a booth what's the point in bodyshops spending money on them.

I'll ask again though, how do you cure paint outdoors? I'll await UV, or heat lamps or some similar nonsense when painting the side of a car.

I'm fortunate to have worked in all parts of the industry yes. So do the job? Yes I can.

Your point Rob about bad bodyshops is mute, I said find a proper bodyshop, proper credentials and previous work on show, reviews etc.

I may be tarring everyone with the same brush because i'm yet to see anything resembling a good smart repair done in a tent at the front of someone's house.

It's just not the way to repair cars imo.

Oh and cost of cars make zero difference. If people don't know what they're looking for or simply don't care it matters not a jot how much the car is worth.


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## robdcfc (Sep 17, 2012)

gally said:


> The fact Rob has admitted using a booth for some jobs if he needs to says it all for me. If you don't need a booth what's the point in bodyshops spending money on them.
> 
> I'll ask again though, how do you cure paint outdoors? I'll await UV, or heat lamps or some similar nonsense when painting the side of a car.
> 
> ...


Booth is only for jobs outside the scope of smart, this means my customers et a one stop shop for all their bodywork.

Both ways have their benefits, ubt there is no reason to state that smart is no good!


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Oh dear the old cliche of all smart repairs are crap.
Its the same for bodyshops there good and bad, but yet one bad job from a bodyshop or smart repair and we all get tarred with the same brush. Seems to me like you've have a bad experience and have little or no knowledge of what goes into repairs, prepping, spraying, or the products and which products actually suit each job. If a smart repair is done properly then You won't be able to see it or notice it. Everything rob has said is right now wether yiu choose to believe him or not is down to you. 
As for air drying it does work as opposed to force drying. I've resprayed one of my cars in a work shop on a farm, with no problems. And once it was flatted and polished you probably wouldn't be able to tell if it was done in an oven or a shed. So to answer your question yes paint can be air dried with no problems providing you use the correct hardners/activators.


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

gally said:


> I'll ask again though, how do you cure paint outdoors? I'll await UV, or heat lamps or some similar nonsense when painting the side of a car.


Painting the side of a car wouldn't be classed a SMART repair and I very much doubt many good/reputable SMART repairers would take on a side of a car outside - hence why some of the guys that do take on larger work also have a booth.
Now when you say UV lamps (and with your self confessed extensive knowledge of the industry) I take it you might of made a slight slip up there and actually meant infra-red lamps.
I've been into many a good bodyshop and seen infra-red lamps being used - and why not? As long as they're using bulbs of the correct wave length and have enough lamps to cover the area that's been worked on there really won't be a problem.
Infra-red lamps, even when used outside, are a perfectly acceptable way to cure smaller repairs that can be classed as SMART.


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## gttjames (Jul 23, 2009)

:lol: oops didn't mean to set all this off.

Well when I 1st got the car the local smart repairers wernt interested. Local bodyshops only offered to paint whole bumper and wernt very positive on a colour match. So I left it, I just thought with seeing some of the stone chip repairs etc in guides and some new techniques that id ask some advice. But its not a big deal to me, not worth painting whole bumper, sticker replacement and maybe having a bad colour match. If it was something that could be delt with cheaply id of been interested. But il leave it for now then guys


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## carfix (May 28, 2010)

As others on here have opined, there are good and bad Smart Repairers.

Not all repairs are best served by smart technique, and a good smart repairer will advise what can be achieved.

I have the experience and equipment to smart repair the defect in the photo without debadging etc. Although the colour is a three stage process, the damage is in an area that has a lot of " movement" and the painted area would be about the size of a penny. This is achievable because the equipment I use can atomise paint at below 1 bar, and has a fan 6 mm wide when i need it. Traditional painters find this hard to believe but I do it all the time, and so do many progressive bodyshops who have embraced the new technology and run Smart bays next to their paint booths.

I have repaired cars as diverse as a 1960's Gulf GT40 that the owner wanted to keep original as possible, to David Beckham's DB7, as well as the odd Enzo, Mobility Micra and Veyron.
My ability to size up and complete a repair has come from years of underpromising and overdelivering and it is difficult not to respond when someone just repeats what they heard down the pub. You will find poor work in all professions, but seldom will you hear of a good repair despite being surrounded by them, as by their very nature, you will not see them.

It would be more helpful to the O/P if when pontificating a personal opinion the poster can inform us whether his comment is derived from years of technical experience in the industry or if the considered advice is formed on the basis of what happened once to a friend of a friend. 

Keep looking for a smart repairer that has the ability to take it on, Its a shame you are not close to me James as i would have completed the repair for free, as long as Gally came to watch so I could show him how to do it without painting the whole bumper ! :thumb:


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## gttjames (Jul 23, 2009)

carfix said:


> As others on here have opined, there are good and bad Smart Repairers.
> 
> Not all repairs are best served by smart technique, and a good smart repairer will advise what can be achieved.
> 
> ...


haha good post :thumb:

I know it all comes down to the individual, but I really cant find anyone round here who seems good enough or wants to take it on.

As its a area that isn't easily seen Iv thought I would be happy to accept a 90% touch up finish. What you are talking about, spraying the size of a coin area sounds ideal. As even if the paint match isn't spot on, it would not be noticed as such a small section, whereas a 12x12inch section if a few shades out would stand out and look terrible - Well if you ever near Cambridge - PM me you have a job waiting :lol: - and of course I would be happy to sort you out for the job


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

ChipsAway Cambridge have a good reputation


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

You lads make me laugh! 

I'm a smart repairer for a ford direct refurbishment centre. 

We have one man who literally just flats and polishes poor previous work all day, 50 hours a week. This is because for multiple reasons, some bodyshops will do the minimum amount of work needed. I've met painters that have never picked up a mop before! 

I honestly would really struggle to recommend a bodyshop within 20miles. 
But I do know a guy who is the top of his game. He will repair what he feels is within his skills outside from his van. 
But around here bodyshops a will let you rent out a booth for a single bake for the bigger jobs. 

Then again I wouldn't recommend anyone that I hadn't seen do the job to a high standard. 

We don't do repairs on the side of the road, but I have done before. 


On another note, most classic cars would have rocket (racing) added to the Hardner and just left to air dry for a few days, if you know what you are doing, you shouldn't need a booth.


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## gttjames (Jul 23, 2009)

squiggs said:


> ChipsAway Cambridge have a good reputation


tried them... I pulled up and before I was out the car someone was walking over to me saying 'no way' - I said 'argh ok mate well thought it was worth a try' and he just confirmed they wouldn't even attempt it. That was a couple of years ago, things changed?

and yes sickate I know of bodyshops that don't even have a mop lol.

I guess it all comes down to individuals as with anything, iv seen a crappy looking building, filthy inside, but a nice booth do some fantastic work. And iv seen a mint big bodyshop do crap work.

Just like smart repairs, we get them round at work and the ones iv seen I wouldn't let them smart repair my toolbox lol


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

It is a difficult colour being a three stage ! ! !
Some 3 stagers (would that score any points in scrabble :lol just don't lend themselves to anything but a full respray with lots & lots of bending into adjoining panels.
I know I can happily smart repair some 3 stage colours with the paint scheme I use, but as far as I know this is one of the most difficult colours whatever scheme is used (I maybe contradicting Rob (Carfix) here and am wiling to bow to his superior knowledge as I know he has far more experience in the trade than I do) but I would say a touch up kit is completely out of the question - but if somebody really claims that with their scheme and skill they could make it look significantly better rather than you having to get a complete bumper respray + new graphics- then where's the harm, surely an improvement is better than nothing?
If Rob is correct (and I've no reason to doubt him) you've just got to keep knocking on doors till you find the right tech.


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## Gretsch-drummer (Sep 17, 2010)

Lets all just have a laugh at this amazing filler work I spotted parked up in a dealers carpark while out in the smart repair van:










Phwroooaarr...she's a cracker ain't she. (pun intended)


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## gttjames (Jul 23, 2009)

squiggs said:


> It is a difficult colour being a three stage ! ! !
> Some 3 stagers (would that score any points in scrabble :lol just don't lend themselves to anything but a full respray with lots & lots of bending into adjoining panels.
> I know I can happily smart repair some 3 stage colours with the paint scheme I use, but as far as I know this is one of the most difficult colours whatever scheme is used (I maybe contradicting Rob (Carfix) here and am wiling to bow to his superior knowledge as I know he has far more experience in the trade than I do) but I would say a touch up kit is completely out of the question - but if somebody really claims that with their scheme and skill they could make it look significantly better rather than you having to get a complete bumper respray + new graphics- then where's the harm, surely an improvement is better than nothing?
> If Rob is correct (and I've no reason to doubt him) you've just got to keep knocking on doors till you find the right tech.


totally agree with that 'an improvement is better than nothing'


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