# Koch Chemie GreenStar vs BH Surfex



## Rob D 88 (May 24, 2016)

I have a bottle of GreenStar and I know it's the most raved about product this year!
My question is that it is only a strong APC that everyone is now using as a Pre-Wash!
Can we all not use BH Surfex and dilute it down? 

Everyone loves Surfex as a strong APC so diluted like GreenStar it should be a match!

Is there something that might damage the paint and that's why no one uses it for that?

Rob


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## bigkahunaburger (Jun 27, 2012)

Rob D 88 said:


> I have a bottle of GreenStar and I know it's the most raved about product this year!
> My question is that it is only a strong APC that everyone is now using as a Pre-Wash!
> Can we all not use BH Surfex and dilute it down?
> 
> ...


We probably could. I've been wondering since Brian suggested it.

I've just no idea where to start with a dilution ratio.


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## ah234 (Nov 10, 2015)

At 1:10 which seems to be the GS dilution surfex would be amazing


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## Rob D 88 (May 24, 2016)

Well I think I might give it ago the same as GreenStar! That is completely sold out everywhere, TFR is the only other option but I think Surfex would be stronger and of course can do more in terms of different areas of the car!


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## Choppy (Aug 8, 2013)

If you're using it for the exterior why not try auto foam through a pump sprayer at 8% dilution, i find that it works extremely well that way


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## Rob D 88 (May 24, 2016)

Choppy said:


> If you're using it for the exterior why not try auto foam through a pump sprayer at 8% dilution, i find that it works extremely well that way


I have Carbon Collective and Angelwax Foams but GreenStar is a bit more powerful and you get more flexibility.


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## Nidge76 (Sep 16, 2016)

I was after getting GreenStar until it sold out everywhere and am seriously considering getting BH surfex instead to try out. I currently use a citrus pre wash and sometimes I want something a bit stronger even if LSP is affected more.


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## Rob D 88 (May 24, 2016)

Nidge76 said:


> I was after getting GreenStar until it sold out everywhere and am seriously considering getting BH surfex instead to try out. I currently use a citrus pre wash and sometimes I want something a bit stronger even if LSP is affected more.


Go for it.

I have just seen on YouTube people already use it for that. It will do the same as Koch Chemie GreenStar. I will try it next! 
It will be nice if someone already has both to try them at the same ratio and post the results!


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## Surrey Sam (Dec 29, 2008)

*Surfex HD*

Moving up the scale from a snow foam to a TFR, certain APC's will start to perform on a more even kilter. For example:

Here, I have foamed using Surfex HD, power washed and then dried. Car has no LSP (shock horror) :doublesho

*
Before*









*
Surfex HD foamed*









*Power washed*








*

Dried*















[/url]


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## Rob D 88 (May 24, 2016)

Surrey Sam said:


> Moving up the scale from a snow foam to a TFR, certain APC's will start to perform on a more even kilter. For example:
> 
> Here, I have foamed using Surfex HD, power washed and then dried. Car has no LSP (shock horror) :doublesho
> 
> ...


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

When Surfex came out (prior to Auto Foam) people asked exactly these questions (I wasn't "on the scene" then but have read a lot of old threads in the Bilt Hamber forum).Then we all decided we didn't want to damage our LSPs, now we're back to wanting the best cleaning again


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

The cleaning power is going to be very impressive even at relatively high dilution, but the real question is what effect it will have on various lsp'. I currently use a combination of G3 paint prep and Grimeout as a strip wash when I want to take an lsp off a car, so using a strong apc, particularly on a regular basis, is not going to do most waxes or conventional sealants much good. 

It's the same as wheel cleaners, acid based cleaners do a fantastic job of cleaning the dirtiest wheels, but you wouldn't want to use it on every wash.


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

From what I've read, some LSPs are considerably more detergent resistant than others. For instance, if you read the BH forum you'll see Pete Hamber talking about how they tested both Finis and Double Speed-Wax to destruction with aggressive detergent. I think this makes DSW the perfect winter wax because it doesn't really care what strength of pre-wash you use


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## Nidge76 (Sep 16, 2016)

Thanks for that post Sam.

I will be buying some Surfex today now.

Nice car by the way.


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Thanks all on this.

Following on from Mcpx (cheers):

I'm coming to the opinion that this is all about compromise.

How much grime? cleaned how fast? with what sort of effect on lsp? and how often?

Over the next few weeks I'm due to do a Yaris that has been washed with washing up liquid for the last few years of its life. 

I'm thinking that I might do a comparison with say, Morrisons APC and Grimeout (haven't got any Surfex left ) or another APC on the basis that there's not going to be any lsp left, muck will be sticking like dog mess and it's going to need some serious time spending afterwards anyway.

So it'll be a simple "what gets the muck off" a "neglected" car comparison having no consideration for lsp etc.

Any thoughts or ideas? % dilutions? etc.

Andy


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

10% seems like a reasonable place to start :thumb:


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

I actually used BH Surfex as a pre-wash yesterday as I am carrying out some tests for BH. This wasn't the first time though as many moons ago I suggested on here that a mixture 50/50 of Surfex and Auto Foam was incredible for cleaning power. 

Surfex is more effective on oil based grime while Auto Foam cuts through general road film with ease. This creates a product that should in theory remove most types of traffic film when combined. Anyway I am rambling... Onto my test yesterday. I used Surfex through my foam lance at a 4% PIR, the same ratio as Auto Foam and the cleaning power was impressive. I have photos I will upload when I get a chance but will be doing a full review on it in the near future. 

I suspect Surfex will be every bit as effective as this Green star everyone is going on about as they are both just APC products but Surfex is considerably cheaper and readily available in larger sizes. As for LSP, my car had some Wax Addict Quartz and Custom Show Gloss applied to either half of my roof over 5 months ago (30/8/16). After the pre-wash and hand wash the beading of both was still exceptional so I can at least confirm it doesn't seem as harsh as people seem to think. Obviously this is only 1 application and continuous use may wear away at your LSP quicker but I can at least confirm it doesn't strip or degrade wax visibly after one application.


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## Nidge76 (Sep 16, 2016)

Rob D 88 said:


> Go for it.
> 
> I have just seen on YouTube people already use it for that. It will do the same as Koch Chemie GreenStar. I will try it next!
> It will be nice if someone already has both to try them at the same ratio and post the results!


Put in an order for 5 litres of BH Surfex this morning. :thumb:


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## Rob D 88 (May 24, 2016)

This is why I am addicted to DW! All the information I wanted.
Thanks everyone!

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Brian1612 said:


> I actually used BH Surfex as a pre-wash yesterday *as I am carrying out some tests for BH.* This wasn't the first time though as many moons ago I suggested on here that a mixture 50/50 of Surfex and Auto Foam was incredible for cleaning power.


interesting....something new coming?


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

sm81 said:


> interesting....something new coming?


Always hopeful eh mate :lol:


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## graham1970 (Oct 7, 2012)

I use a 50/50 mix of sufex/autofoam to clean my partners little white citigo.
Haven't had chance to wax the car and this combo cuts through grime brilliantly. 
I use a stronger mix before decontaminating my jag,helps lift the wax.
All part of the routine stangalang advised me on when I spent a day with him a few years back.

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk


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## nicks16v (Jan 7, 2009)

What sort of dilutions are people using as a good prewash without affecting the lsp for Surfex and autofoam mixed together in 1 litre of water ? 8% total ? So 4% of each ?


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Every prewash will affect the LSP to some degree - it's also going to depend on which LSP... If I were formulating for a really grotty car I'd probably go for something like you suggest but for general use that feels like overkill (I put 4% Auto Foam on my car yesterday and it was minging, came up well). Depends if you're looking for a close-to-touchless wash or as a prelude to a 2BM.

Maybe 3% AF, 3% S-HD, see how you go on...


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## Radish293 (Mar 16, 2012)

Spooky I was just going to ask if anyone has tried Surfex in a snow foam lance. Would love to see the photos.


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Radish293 said:


> Spooky I was just going to ask if anyone has tried Surfex in a snow foam lance. Would love to see the photos.


Well today is your lucky day, have a look at post #9 of this very thread :lol:


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## Demetrios72 (Jun 27, 2011)

I would definitely put Power Maxed TFR up there with the top performers

10:1 dilution :thumb:


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## Surrey Sam (Dec 29, 2008)

steelghost said:


> Well today is your lucky day, have a look at post #9 of this very thread :lol:


 I did scratch my head reading that, I even made it in big bold letters.


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## Rob D 88 (May 24, 2016)

Surrey Sam said:


> I did scratch my head reading that, I even made it in big bold letters.


How much Surfex in the lance Sam? 100ml like a normal foam?


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## Blueberry (Aug 10, 2007)

I've been using GS on both our cars at 1:15 dilution. Cleans brilliantly and thus far our LSP's are still intact. Sheeting / beading still looking good. We have Fireball Nano Coat and Fuzion on our cars.


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## Surrey Sam (Dec 29, 2008)

Rob D 88 said:


> How much Surfex in the lance Sam? 100ml like a normal foam?


Hi Rob.

To be honest, I have never measured out the quantity as I tend to go by 'feel'. Surfex is not my routine foam anyway, because when I have an LSP layered on the car I utilise BH Autofoam instead. My opinion is that continued long term exposure to these harsher chemicals do diminish the LSP and can effect delicate surface finishes and even dull the lacquer. Here it was utilised like a cutting compound - the situation dictated it and I needed to go a little heavier - it was my intention to do a full Winter de-contamination over a few days.

In the pictured example, I put about 1-1.5" in the bottle of my Autobrite Big Daddy lance. This was connected to my pressure washer, which delivers hot water (set at 50 degrees) at a flow rate of between 10-11 LPM. So, not really your average system.


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## Rob D 88 (May 24, 2016)

Surrey Sam said:


> Hi Rob.
> 
> To be honest, I have never measured out the quantity as I tend to go by 'feel'. Surfex is not my routine foam anyway, because when I have an LSP layered on the car I utilise BH Autofoam instead. My opinion is that continued long term exposure to these harsher chemicals do diminish the LSP and can effect delicate surface finishes and even dull the lacquer. Here it was utilised like a cutting compound - the situation dictated it and I needed to go a little heavier - it was my intention to do a full Winter de-contamination over a few days.
> 
> In the pictured example, I put about 1-1.5" in the bottle of my Autobrite Big Daddy lance. This was connected to my pressure washer, which delivers hot water (set at 50 degrees) at a flow rate of between 10-11 LPM. So, not really your average system.


Cheers Sam.

Hot water pressure washer! Bit posh! Haha

Thanks for the info!

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

sm81 said:


> interesting....something new coming?


Just some thorough reviews of a few BH products


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## firehorse (Sep 23, 2016)

Radish293 said:


> Spooky I was just going to ask if anyone has tried Surfex in a snow foam lance. Would love to see the photos.


Already tested as a snow foam

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/45019/bilt-hamber-surfex-hd


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Hi all,

I got the opportunity to do a comparison rather sooner than expected with this:

http://[URL=https://flic.kr/p/SrGdgD]P1040987 by Andy Norrris, on Flickr[/URL]

The Focus is 14 years old and, as you'll see, has a few battle scars and nothing resembling a wax 

Each side had 1 litre of "cleaner" applied at 10% to a dry car via a Kwazar sprayer.

Left to dwell for about 3 minutes then washed off with a hose with the spray gun set on "jet" not by PW

Driver's side - "Flash"

http://[URL=https://flic.kr/p/R9YGzQ]P1050006 by Andy Norrris, on Flickr[/URL].

Passenger's side - Grimeout

http://[URL=https://flic.kr/p/RRSKth]P1050007 by Andy Norrris, on Flickr[/URL].

Both sides looked pretty good until they started to dry out. 

Conclusion:

I think Grimeout did a better job but neither covered themselves in glory. I wouldn't want to be going anywhere near this with a bucket and washmitt. :doublesho

I'm now thinking of repeating the exercise with the muck that's left using exactly the same process except for rinsing with a PW.

Maybe I'll add in a snowfoam on the hatch as well (equally mucky if not worse) and see how that does.

Andy.


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Pressure washing off is more important when the paint is unprotected, in my experience. And even with a good thorough jet wash down, you are almost always left with a surface that is grubbier than even a gentle snowfoam on a protected surface would give you. 

A wash on an unprotected car is one of those situations where I'd bust out the big TFR or strong APC guns, for the sake of getting to cleaner paint for the 2BM stage.


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Hi SG,

Totally agree.

I was being deliberately "difficult" by not using a PW just to see what happened.

Cheers

Andy.


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