# Is it the beggining of the end of the three door car?



## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

VW has confirmed it is axeing the three door Polo from it's line up to cut costs and this could lead to the demise of the three door Golf also. Ford now only makes a five door Focus and Honda does the same with the Civic and other companies could follow suit. Are we now seeing the end of three door cars in the compact car segment? and will we see the end of the three door hot hatch.


----------



## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Good riddance , IMHO it's such an outdated view that 3 doors look better than 5 anyway.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

They'll just bring out another car to fill the gap like the 2 and 4 series BMW's.


----------



## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Shaun said:


> Good riddance , IMHO it's such an outdated view that 3 doors look better than 5 anyway.


On standard cars five doors are fine, but I think a hot hatch version will always look better in three doors, they look so much sportier IMO.


----------



## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

ardandy said:


> They'll just bring out another car to fill the gap like the 2 and 4 series BMW's.


I am not entirely sure this would happen as car makers will look to cut costs and save money so bringing out another model to fill the gap doesn't seem to make economic sense. Can you imagine all car makers no longer making three door cars?


----------



## bradleymarky (Nov 29, 2013)

It will sure make it easier for overweight people to travel...


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

ardandy said:


> They'll just bring out another car to fill the gap like the 2 and 4 series BMW's.


The 2 and 4 series are coupes and not hatchbacks. The 1 series can be bought with either 3 or 5 doors.

Some cars do look better in 3 door than 5. If you don't use the rear seats often it also might be more convenient for the driver giving him more space normally. Also the pillar is slightly further back and not directly in your view when turning to your right.

I'm sure people will adapt and keeping buying the cars.


----------



## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

As a family man 5 doors are more practical however did have a brilliant time in my youth in 3 door motors.


----------



## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

Soul boy 68 said:


> I am not entirely sure this would happen as car makers will look to cut costs and save money so bringing out another model to fill the gap doesn't seem to make economic sense. Can you imagine all car makers no longer making three door cars?


Well, the Ford Puma was based on the Fiesta chassis, the cougar was based on the Mondeo chassis.

Car makers could produce a sporty coupe to plug the gap of a 3 door variant, if they wanted to of course.

A Focus or Golf coupe perhaps???


----------



## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

I didn't know about this. Frankly I am disappointed that car makers are deciding to do this, especially VW.

Whatever happened to choice in the range now? It'll only be optional extras & paint colours that are the only 'choose able' options now if they are doing away with the 3dr.

Personally I'm not pleased.


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I didn't know about this. Frankly I am disappointed that car makers are deciding to do this, especially VW.
> 
> Whatever happened to choice in the range now? It'll only be optional extras & paint colours that are the only 'choose able' options now if they are doing away with the 3dr.
> 
> Personally I'm not pleased.


Did you buy a 3door Golf? - after all you are young, no kids, do not need the practicality of a 5 door, if people in your position are not buying 3 door cars then who is???

Put yourself in their position - if you sold shoes with equal space given to red shoes and blue shoes but blue shoes represented 95% of your sales and profit - what would you do

Why especially disappointed with VW - they are just like every other manufacturer - they are not in business to offer customers choice - they are in business to generate profit.

Granted, profit is influenced by the choice you offer but if that choice extends to products that people are not buying then its pointless

Golf Mk1 platform - 3 door hatch, 5 door hatch, 4 door saloon, 2 door convertible

Golf Mk6/ 7 platform - 3 door hatch, 5 door hatch, 4 door saloon, 5 door estate, 5 door SUV, 5 door MPV, 2 door soft top, 2 door folding hardtop + Octavia, Leon, TT, A3, A3 Sportback, Q3

I can't see a reduction in choice


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I didn't know about this. Frankly I am disappointed that car makers are deciding to do this, especially VW.
> 
> Whatever happened to choice in the range now? It'll only be optional extras & paint colours that are the only 'choose able' options now if they are doing away with the 3dr.
> 
> Personally I'm not pleased.


Choice ? You do realise you as a customer are not that important and that it's the shareholders and profit that are key ?

I agree with Kerr, 3 doors give you much better visibility and very often it means you are not staring at the b pillar. I think it just proves how unpopular polo 3doors are, I couldn't imagine ford dropping the 3 door fiesta or vauxhall the 3 door corsa.


----------



## Franzpan (Mar 2, 2009)

Andyg_TSi said:


> Well, the Ford Puma was based on the Fiesta chassis, the cougar was based on the Mondeo chassis.
> 
> Car makers could produce a sporty coupe to plug the gap of a 3 door variant, if they wanted to of course.
> 
> A Focus or Golf coupe perhaps???


If they're doing away with 3dr options to cut costs it's not likely they're going to spend on a new model.

Golf Coupe? Scirocco anyone?

I do think three doors have the edge looks wise over five doors but it won't be a big loss as there are plenty of 3dr models like the Scirocco, TT etc. and still plenty of 3dr saloons.


----------



## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

andy665 said:


> Put yourself in their position - if you sold shoes with equal space given to red shoes and blue shoes but blue shoes represented 95% of your sales and profit - what would you do
> 
> Why especially disappointed with VW - they are just like every other manufacturer - they are not in business to offer customers choice - they are in business to generate profit.
> 
> ...


Bit by the same token, if you're looking to buy a brand new car only have Golf money & want 3 doors, your hardly going to buy an Audi TT.

Whilst chassis platforms are shared to produce different models & marques, it is still restricting choice if you want a polo & want 3 doors because your loyal to VW then why not still offer it.

If people are in the market for a new small hatch like a Polo & can't get one brand new in 3 door format......they'll potentially go and buy a Fiesta which looses VW a sale & gains Ford a sale.

I would think this is more to do with gaining more sales in the American lard **** market lol


----------



## Deniance (Jun 28, 2008)

Up yours car world, long live 3dr!


----------



## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Interesting idea and whilst I think some 3 door cars could be axed (Focus and previous Civic were good ideas) I think that there's still room for them.

Look at Seats for example - 3 door Ibiza and Leon are much better looking cars, certainly sportier in appearance and there's still a market for that.

I hope they don't get too obsessed with cost cutting as certain brands might lose sales completely. I don't think I'd have gone for a 5 door Ibiza as I think they're a bit fugly!


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Andyg_TSi said:


> Whilst chassis platforms are shared to produce different models & marques, it is still restricting choice if you want a polo & want 3 doors because your loyal to VW then why not still offer it.


One word - profit

The people they lose to other brands by not offering a 3 door model will be more than outweighed by the economies of scale offered by only needing one bodyside instead of two, one door size instead of two, one door wiring loom instead of two, one interior rear side panel instead of two, one front seat style instead of two (sliding / tilting mechanism) - the differences run much deeper than purely the number of doors


----------



## Oldsparky (Jun 18, 2014)

As an older guy who rarely has anyone in the back but does need those other two seats occasionally a three door really suits me and I really prefer the look of a three in fact the five door only is putting me off the new type r civic. 

Maybe it'll be a sirocco for me next.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Andyg_TSi said:


> I would think this is more to do with gaining more sales in the American lard **** market lol


The Americans really don't do hatchbacks. They are rare over there.

They even get saloon versions of some cars that we don't just to keep their market happy.


----------



## Clancy (Jul 21, 2013)

I'm disapointed with the way it's going, I far prefer 3 door hatchback, especially hot hatches.

5 doors just always look odd to me, I rarely look at one and think it looks nice. People always make the argument it's more practical but if they really needed a practical car they could get a bigger one. Not buy a hot hatch with extra doors squeezed in


----------



## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Soul boy 68 said:


> I am not entirely sure this would happen as car makers will look to *cut costs and save money* so bringing out another model to fill the gap doesn't seem to make economic sense. Can you imagine all car makers no longer making three door cars?





Soul boy 68 said:


> VW has confirmed it is axeing the three door Polo from it's line up to *cut costs* and this could lead to the demise of the three door Golf also. Ford now only makes a five door Focus and Honda does the same with the Civic and other companies could follow suit. Are we now seeing the end of three door cars in the compact car segment? and will we see the end of the three door hot hatch.





ardandy said:


> They'll just bring out another car to fill the gap like the 2 and 4 series BMW's.


I tend to agree with Andy.....we're in an era of unprecedented models of cars, niches, and niches within niches.

Just look at Audi/BMW for example. in 1999 Audi had A3, A4, A6 and A8 and TT.

Now they have A1, A2, A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, A8, Q3, Q5, Q7, TT, R8...this does not get into the further diversifications, e.g the new A3 saloon or the A5 sportback...a 4door version of a 2 door version of a 4door car as TG would say, so they have probably tripled the number of cars they sell.

Offering a 3dr car on the same platform must have negligible cost, I think it's FAR more likely they will release a 3dr only car and specifically target the marketing of that model at younger people and sporty looks etc. Remember a couple years ago when BMW said the M3 dead?...it was never really dead, just in line for a planned product roll out!


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Bero said:


> Offering a 3dr car on the same platform must have negligible cost


Its actually a far higher cost than ever before


----------



## John74 (Mar 12, 2007)

Bean counters win again 😞


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

John74 said:


> Bean counters win again 😞


I completely disagree 

If they were being sold in volume then they would be retained

Why offer something that only a very small percentage of people are buying - does not make any sense


----------



## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

andy665 said:


> Its actually a far higher cost than ever before


How come? I'm interested in the evidence. Volume manufacturers like ford could have a whole line dedicated to building 3dr cars.

If you can make A4 saloon, A4 estate, A5/A5 sportback these are all big deviations from each other. a simple 3/5dr model would be WAY cheaper. :thumb:


----------



## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

andy665 said:


> Why offer something that only a very small percentage of people are buying - does not make any sense


Only a small % of people can afford a top of the range performance model, for example.

You could argue that offering a limited run of a 3 door version of the new Focus RS would be even more exclusive & could sell for a lot more than the expected £30k the 5 door is going to cost.

I'm sure if Ford brought out a limited run of a thousand 3 door RS focus's they'd sell out of them within a week

Sometimes the exclusiveness of the 3 door variant of model can win out......just depends what it is I suppose......


----------



## leon20v (Jul 7, 2007)

Kerr said:


> The Americans really don't do hatchbacks. They are rare over there.


And what they do have suck, I'm a year into looking at an American replacement for my Ibiza Bocanegra. Due to mobility issues for the O/H a 3 door car would have been perfect due to the wider/longer opening doors. 
Closest I can find to a style I like is the new Mazda 3 or Lexus ct 200h but again ride hight is now a factor as well as if they are to low down they are of no use. Probably going to end up with an SUV, the American dream of a mustang or camero will have to wait a year or two 

oh and if 3dr cars cost more to make why does the 3dr fiesta cost less than the 5dr version ? If I remember right it was something like £2K less for the 3dr when my parents got one in 2013. Its only usually the two of them and they didn't see the need for a 5dr and paying extra for it.


----------



## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

I find it laughable if not a little ironic, the manufactures' have over the last few decades continued to split the proverbial hair regarding models and subsequent derivatives of, all the while telling us they are only responding to market forces ! Now after years of a model for everyone and everything they're going to turn the clock back ! I don't believe it'll spread through the industry though, I don't see the smaller models being as popular in the 5 door variant ! I think cars like the Fiesta, Ka, Up, Ibiza and the Adam will always have appeal as three doors, the Mini has only recently become available in a five door. Although I think in the case of the Mini BMW have been guilty of diluting the brand by making so many models. I like three door cars and my 3 door Focus suites me and my needs perfectly, I also think it looks better than a five door in the same model but perhaps that just me ? Either way I don't think we'll be seeing the end of the three door any time soon, less variants of the model is imo a good thing but as there are so many I think even with reduced choice there will still be a market place for a three door car.


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Bero said:


> How come? I'm interested in the evidence. Volume manufacturers like ford could have a whole line dedicated to building 3dr cars.
> 
> If you can make A4 saloon, A4 estate, A5/A5 sportback these are all big deviations from each other. a simple 3/5dr model would be WAY cheaper. :thumb:


Big difference is that those models sell in big enough volumes to justify it

Scenario - you have 5% of your production run dedicated to a 3 door model - lets say 20,000 cars per year as opposed to 380,000 for the corresponding 5 door

Rear trim cards, front door cards, rear side glass, door, front side glass, door wiring looms, body sides, exterior trim mouldings, glass rubbers etc etc etc - what do you think the price per item differential would be from your supplier on a 20k run compared to a 380k run - a significant difference - tooling costs are tooling costs irrespective of volume - once those costs are factored in to things it becomes a difficult one to justify

As has been mentioned Ford might have sold a limited run of 1,000 Focus RS in 3 door form - definitely if the cost was the same. The simple fact is that Ford would either lose profit or price the car to reflect the limited production run of the different items above - end result would be a massive price hike - would people pay 25% - 30% more for a 3 door version of a 5 door?


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

leon20v said:


> oh and if 3dr cars cost more to make why does the 3dr fiesta cost less than the 5dr version ? If I remember right it was something like £2K less for the 3dr when my parents got one in 2013. Its only usually the two of them and they didn't see the need for a 5dr and paying extra for it.


Usually 3 door models are about £500-600 cheaper than 5 door models - priced like that as 3 door models have historically represented the extremes of a model range - the top performance derivative and lower spec models that are sold on price

3 doors will cost less to manufacture if the volumes / economies of scale are there - if there is a massive shift of sales away from a 5 door they become more expensive to manufacture - its simple economic facts


----------



## leon20v (Jul 7, 2007)

andy665 said:


> 3 doors will cost less to manufacture if the volumes / economies of scale are there - if there is a massive shift of sales away from a 5 door they become more expensive to manufacture - its simple economic facts


True, think my tired brian didn't even think about it like this. :thumb:


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

leon20v said:


> True, think my tired brian didn't even think about it like this. :thumb:


Like my grandad said - sometimes its only obvious when its pointed out to you


----------



## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

andy665 said:


> Big difference is that those models sell in big enough volumes to justify it
> 
> Scenario - you have 5% of your production run dedicated to a 3 door model - lets say 20,000 cars per year as opposed to 380,000 for the corresponding 5 door
> 
> ...


I completely understand the difference in costs on a per unit basis. I was questioning you're 'more than ever before' statement, why is it more now than ever before?

I believe tooling is becoming cheaper and things are made smarter and made interchangeable where feasible, this would reduce the per unit cost. With a 3dr you can slightly offset the costs as you only requiring 1/2 the number of doors, seals, window openers etc.

If the product mix used to be 70-30 and now 95-5 this would of course go some way to explaining it.

However I believe 3drs used to be made as a cheap solution to sell to young people, but now tooling is cheap enough so cheap they will bring out a dedicated 3rd model...time will tell of course :thumb:


----------



## Sutty 90 (Aug 24, 2014)

I hope not, it will be a boring world if all cars have 4/5 doors.

If anything I'm more surprised the Hyundai Veloster isn't more popular with one door on the drivers side and two on the passenger. Best of both worlds lol 

Sutty.


----------



## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Shaun said:


> Good riddance , IMHO it's such an outdated view that 3 doors look better than 5 anyway.


In your (wrong) opinion


----------



## nbray67 (Mar 22, 2012)

Buy a 3dr Seat instead, money in your pocket and problem solved!!


----------



## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

nbray67 said:


> Buy a 3dr Seat instead, money in your pocket and problem solved!!


Sorry but I read this as buy a 3dr Seat (as in chair) rather than a car.


----------



## pez (Jun 7, 2014)

I hope not as I love 3 door cars, but from a manufacturing point it makes sense as there would be more generic parts used a cross the range ( same doors, same b pillar and potentioly same floor plan) so it make more economic sense and thay could drive down manufacturing price and make more profit


----------



## RD55 DUN (Dec 30, 2008)

3dr>5dr

5 door hatch cars just arnt “Sporty” imo.

Only way id have a 5door hatch was if I had kids for practicality reasons! (I may make an exception for the new civic type r but).


----------



## Christian6984 (Dec 20, 2007)

New Clio and Twingo are 5door only now 

Fiesta ST is 3 door for most places apart from the US who get 5 door


----------

