# Evo Bashing Detailers



## Dcatner (Jan 9, 2013)

Amazed with what I have just been reading!

Some interesting views on detailing from some people out there amazes me!

http://community.evo.co.uk/forums/thread.cfm?threadID=86986&startRow=0

:detailer:


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

You can't please all the people all the time.

To some a car is just a white good, to others it's their biggest spend and pride and joy.


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## ImDesigner (Jan 19, 2012)

I did have a little laugh at the bloke who said KDS spent "80 hours cleaning it". Outside of our circle, they just don't understand the process or why we do it, but it's quite obvious that the 80 hours were spent on more than just cleaning it.

Intentional ignorance I just can't be bothered with.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

To a lot of people a car is just transport, they dont cherish it. As for Mito Boy or whatever his name is, if he has to do the car every 5 months, he obviously hasnt learnt much then. Wonder if it is the same person who went on about money in the KDS need new staff thread.


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## Dcatner (Jan 9, 2013)

muzzer42 said:


> To a lot of people a car is just transport, they dont cherish it. As for Mito Boy or whatever his name is, if he has to do the car every 5 months, he obviously hasnt learnt much then. Wonder if it is the same person who went on about money in the KDS need new staff thread.


I also thought that it may be the same person! :lol:


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

Mitoman haha typical response for someone who has a small car and a small *****


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

Dcatner said:


> I also thought that it may be the same person! :lol:


I think it is the same person, mr my parents didnt spend 100k on my education to have me wash cars for 30k. Shame he couldnt spell or use correct punctuation really :lol:


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## rsdan1984 (Jul 31, 2009)

i'll be doing a full wet sand detail on my focus rs once i've moved and i have a garage! 80 hours and super sharp reflections here i come!!


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## Millzer (Jan 24, 2012)

Mito Man - The one man fight against detailing...Wait....



> Mito Man. Polishing his parents car since age 12.


Sorry bud, didn't realise... Welcome to Detailing World! :buffer:


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## DocIS200 (Oct 5, 2011)

Mito (child) as he should be called is one of those guys who thinks he knows it all and everything is easy but put a buffer in his hands and he wouldn't know whether to polish the car or the top of his tiny kn*b!!!! He says imperfections coming back after wet sand!! He's either not sanding rite or not at all. I'd say he polishes (with fillers) and thinks he's done!! Tw*t....... Rant over :banghead:


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## organisys (Jan 3, 2012)

It's OK that they don't get it!

Those views not untypical in the 'driven hard' camp.


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

Says it all about that 'Mito Man' with what it says at bottom of every reply he makes


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2013)

i'd rather spend £500~£1000 on detailing equipment than £1000~10000 on turbos and what not on a car that will never see a track:thumb:


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

Flash car small willy syndrome :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

suspal said:


> Flash car small willy syndrome :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Wouldn't call a mito flash car haha


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## BoostJunky86 (Oct 25, 2012)

Loads of basically complete feckin morons!! I'd slap that mito man, bell end!! Most haven't got a frickin clue! I don't care ilf they don't like OTC at the end if the day each to their own, don't thinks its worth it, don't have it done, but don't start givin it the big'un unless you actually have the faintest idea in what it is being done!


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## BoostJunky86 (Oct 25, 2012)

rob_vrs said:


> Wouldn't call a mito flash car haha


Your damn right! It's the only Italian 'sports' car that dimwit will ever own though I bet!


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## BoostJunky86 (Oct 25, 2012)

jamie s said:


> i'd rather spend £500~£1000 on detailing equipment than £1000~10000 on turbos and what not on a car that will never see a track:thumb:


You cut me deep shrek lol!


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

guys don't take my post lierally those who know me know i can be a little flippant at times :lol: minto man knows a little more that us let him believe it why get bothered i'm not :thumb:


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

- The original M3 thread is from 2009.
- EVO dragged it up in 2012.
- DW drag it back up in 2013

I think the sentiment has long gone now!


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## JBirchy (Oct 9, 2010)

It's easy to get wound up at folk like this and what I don't understand is that everybody on this planet is in to different hobbies/things etc... They don't have to like what we do and it's extremely rude to assume that 'people like us' who are into detailing are boring or 'anally retentive,' this is just plain nasty!

"I'd be amazed if anyone paid more than ~£500 to get that done.....but then it's not really normal people that are involved in this field "

BUT - The way I think about it is this...

The condition of a persons car (in my opinion of course) is a direct reflection on their personal hygiene. If their car is a rancid tip, God only knows what the state of their house, or even their undercrackers are!!!

I love driving too and I'm an avid subscriber to EVO Magazine, have been for years. The owner/Editorial Director, Harry Metcalfe has the excellent Richard Tipper of Perfection Valet look after all of his cars, and most of the EVO team speak very highly of detailers too as they can see the 'value add' it brings to precious metal!

:thumb:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Seems like he's just mouthing off for the sake of it. Like most hobbies,you either 'get it' or you don't. Water off a ducks back to me. Don't bother me what people think tbh


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## Johnny_B (Feb 3, 2013)

ImDesigner said:


> I did have a little laugh at the bloke who said KDS spent "80 hours cleaning it". Outside of our circle, they just don't understand the process or why we do it, but it's quite obvious that the 80 hours were spent on more than just cleaning it.
> 
> Intentional ignorance I just can't be bothered with.


he also couldn't spell Sainsburys correct


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## Kelly @ KDS (Aug 4, 2008)

OHHHH what would they make of the amount of New or nearly new M3's that have been wet sanded by me , or the 4k wet sand detail thats taking place at present over many months :thumb:

Thing is no such thing as bad press 

kelly


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## alxg (May 3, 2009)

It's a bit sad I admit, but then look at some threads on here about expensive waxes and the same type of attitude is right there....


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## Kelly @ KDS (Aug 4, 2008)

alxg said:


> It's a bit sad I admit, but then look at some threads on here about expensive waxes and the same type of attitude is right there....


which is what tarnishes the trade of detailing i guess

kelly


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm going to open a big can of worms here but some big names in the detailing fraternity haven't done any favours have they,and Kelly that wasn't directed to you in anyway buddy :thumb:


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## alxg (May 3, 2009)

Kelly @ KDS said:


> which is what tarnishes the trade of detailing i guess
> 
> kelly


I think that ignorance plays a part to be honest Kelly; those who can appreciate the work and skill involved to do what true "Detailers" do will see the value of their work in terms of £'s. What you have most of the time is the view that someone spends X hours just "cleaning a car", and this is something they can't comprehend, so it must be crazy.

Another problem is when someone with 1.5hrs experience with SRP decides they are a "detailer" and starts up because they see it as easy money; after all, that KDS guy charges a fortune to do it, so I'll give it a go.....


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

alxg said:


> It's a bit sad I admit, but then look at some threads on here about expensive waxes and the same type of attitude is right there....


Not quite alx, there's a difference between bods in a 'scene' discussing the merits of expensive vs cheap etc, to non scene bods just coating people off when they ain't got a clue what's involved, that's my opinion anyway


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

the just don't get why we want to get rid of the swirls. they like them, they came with the new car they bought, so it must be something cool :lol:


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

alxg said:


> I think that ignorance plays a part to be honest Kelly; those who can appreciate the work and skill involved to do what true "Detailers" do will see the value of their work in terms of £'s. What you have most of the time is the view that someone spends X hours just "cleaning a car", and this is something they can't comprehend, so it must be crazy.
> 
> Another problem is when someone with 1.5hrs experience with SRP decides they are a "detailer" and starts up because they see it as easy money; after all, that KDS guy charges a fortune to do it, so I'll give it a go.....


I think this has a lot to do with it, people see Kelly, Paul Dalton and the likes are making good money and think it's easy, i can do that.
How ignorant some people are, you can only hope they don't tarnish all detailers with the same brush.


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## Kelly @ KDS (Aug 4, 2008)

muzzer42 said:


> I think this has a lot to do with it, people see Kelly, Paul Dalton and the likes are making *good money* and think it's easy, i can do that.
> How ignorant some people are, you can only hope they don't tarnish all detailers with the same brush.


That's interesting as I would love to see what people think is good money??

I don't earn anything near what I did in my last job role , BUT I am a whole lot happier , funny I watch London Zoo program late last night (yes I am an animal lover) and they interviewed the guy who looks after the gorilla's , he job for many years was a city stock market trader, his old colleges thought he had a mental break down and that's the only reason why he took the job.

He is the happiest he has ever been, and on a very low wage.

Here lies the problem

When people and companys post quote services with prices tags that are ALWAYS going to grab the attention good and bad and are plan right little white lies. 
This is what brings out the non believers and jealous people to detailing and the public think detailers are going to make thousands if not millions per year from washing and waxing a car.

I well KDS have detailed enough (3000+ in 5 years) varied customers cars from all over the country to find out that my standard detailing packages costs of around £500-£700 are expensive compared to some of these company's that post mental price tags as explained to me by their customers.

yes we do carry out some expensive details (from an outsiders view and lack of understanding) we have a 4k detail in now you could never call it a standard detail thou.

All thou the expensive details should really be called restorations.

I know of many people in this trade not making fortunes if not most , but i know they work very very hard to make a living and try to keep their customers happy.

Time is money in our game and to do this trade correctly (detailing services) takes so many hours that it will be impossible to actually make loads of money unless you cut corners , buy bulk cheap non detailing products , charge huge prices (not actually ever met a customer/person who has paid yet) and if you decide to do any of this your not in it for the long term.

Detailing is not something to make a fast buck.

Go and make a app or something IT based for that.

As the company KDS then yes we turn over a massive amount of money for just detailing cars per year , but then i have a massive wage , products , rent , rates etc bill to pay each year.

I guess thou you have to think of both sides to the story , when i watch other professional people on TV carry out their services i think "that looks easy" "i bet i could do that" "How much do their earn?" , i bet its different if i had a go thou.

For me forums like DW are a double edged sword, they bring Detailing into the masses but also make it look like anyone can do it, even more so going by how many times a thread pops up "going to start a new detailing business how do i get started?"

As most of the public own something that resembles wash equipment they are all "detailers" and think professional detailers are doing the same and making £1000's , i know exactly where the money is in this game , its the £5-£10 hand cars washes, one round the corner told me on a good average day that are washing 250-300 cars per day all cash 

Oh and last little thing , i get around 20-30% of my bookings from people who think they can detail and were an expert until its all gone wrong.

Ps' Not trying to pick on anyone or cause a fight ,or aimed at anyone on here its my a little insight into what i see day to day.

Kelly


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

In regard to my comment of good money, i am in a very low paid job compared to the average uk wage, so compared to me i expect you earn good money, however i understand your point about doing something you love over money and i wish i was doing the same as you, doing something i really enjoy.


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## m2srt (Oct 5, 2012)

I think MitoMan is representative of a vast majority of people who just don't 'get' detailing. Yes, you have people who spend stupid money on detailing, but then they can afford it. For most of us, we spend what we can afford and take pride in what we drive. If something is beyond my ability to correct, I'll take it to somebody who can. Does that sound crazy? I think not.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

m2srt said:


> I think MitoMan is representative of a vast majority of people who just don't 'get' detailing. Yes, you have people who spend stupid money on detailing, but then they can afford it. For most of us, we spend what we can afford and take pride in what we drive. If something is beyond my ability to correct, I'll take it to somebody who can. Does that sound crazy? I think not.


Exactly, i'd love to have all the top stuff to detail my car but as i dont know how to use them it would be a waste of time right now, but i do my best to keep my car clean and looking good.


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## Kelly @ KDS (Aug 4, 2008)

muzzer42 said:


> I think this has a lot to do with it, people see Kelly, Paul Dalton and the likes are making good money and think it's easy, i can do that.
> How ignorant some people are, you can only hope they don't tarnish all detailers with the same brush.


Good point , i done a google "KDS Detailing" KDS keltec" as its been over a year since i have last week , and all kept finding wash how expensive KDS are, and this was nearly all from hobby part time detailers who are trying to make some extra cash OR from members who want similar work and services at a much lower price level.

I have no actual problem (even if i did there would nothing i could do to change it) with this and plenty of customers to fill the books of every detailer in the country.

The problem i have is when these guys copy and paste , or just quote my platinum detail services costs http://www.kdskeltec.co.uk/price-menu/paint-correction-packages/platinum which it clearly says 75hrs - 150 hrs , then say they will do the same for special discounted price to forum members from £199 down to £99 and then say it will take 8 hours to do the same as KDS.

This is also the other end of the scale damaging the trade.

In fact found a person who was a KDS customer who said he was gutted as he paid 5 times more for a detail at KDS after reading the "introductory offer as new detailing business services" , then a few members asked him what was the work like (on his supersoft solid black badly repainted car) he was over the moon and amazed by what KDS achieved. 
So we are not comparing like for like.

I also was guilty of pricing too cheaply in the early days BUT fully understand you build and earn that right to charge for quality over time.

kelly


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## Kelly @ KDS (Aug 4, 2008)

muzzer42 said:


> In regard to my comment of good money, i am in a very low paid job compared to the average uk wage, so compared to me i expect you earn good money, however i understand your point about doing something you love over money and i wish i was doing the same as you, doing something i really enjoy.


since starting the KDS training courses up around 2 years ago , (trained over 200 pupils when you include the group days) i was surprised at the enquires for training (mainly one to one which there has been around 180 enquires) that wanted to learn "detailing" to start up a new business with the idea of earning very good money.

One person asked how much money the KDS course will make him as soon as he starts his new business, even thou they had no past skill or customers.

kelly


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## m2srt (Oct 5, 2012)

muzzer42 said:


> Exactly, i'd love to have all the top stuff to detail my car but as i dont know how to use them it would be a waste of time right now, but i do my best to keep my car clean and looking good.


To me thats exactly what detailing should be, doing the best that YOU can. I would love to keep my car in concourse condition but, as a daily driver, its just not going to happen. If I had the money, my detailing spend would go through the roof. A mortgage and other financial commitments mean that I only have a finite amount to spend on detailing. I do not begrudge anyone spending more as I know that everyone I've met through detailing has one thing in common. We all love our car, detailing and the fantastic people we meet through detailing.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

Kelly @ KDS said:


> Good point , i done a google "KDS Detailing" KDS keltec" as its been over a year since i have last week , and all kept finding wash how expensive KDS are, and this was nearly all from hobby part time detailers who are trying to make some extra cash OR from members who want similar work and services at a much lower price level.
> 
> I have no actual problem (even if i did there would nothing i could do to change it) with this and plenty of customers to fill the books of every detailer in the country.
> 
> ...


That's the trouble, people think detailing 'professionally' is easy and that if they undercut yourself or any of the other well known detailers, they will be famous and have loads of work/money/fame etc. I am just scratching the surface at the minute and i can't believe how much you guys put into your work, i only wish i could sort my own car out to your standard


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## m2srt (Oct 5, 2012)

muzzer42 said:


> That's the trouble, people think detailing 'professionally' is easy and that if they undercut yourself or any of the other well known detailers, they will be famous and have loads of work/money/fame etc. I am just scratching the surface at the minute and i can't believe how much you guys put into your work, i only wish i could sort my own car out to your standard


If people knew how to spot the difference between a clean car and a truly detailed car, they would say details represent good value


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

Kelly @ KDS said:


> since starting the KDS training courses up around 2 years ago , (trained over 200 pupils when you include the group days) i was surprised at the enquires for training (mainly one to one which there has been around 180 enquires) that wanted to learn "detailing" to start up a new business with the idea of earning very good money.
> 
> One person asked how much money the KDS course will make him as soon as he starts his new business, even thou they had no past skill or customers.
> 
> kelly


This is something i plan on undertaking soon, training i mean, and if i get good enough to earn a living detailing, then great but if not, i will use my skills to keep mine and my familys cars up to scratch.
Anyway, thanks for the insight into the truth behind detailing and the perceived 'big money' aspect, or lack of it in the industry Kelly, it's nice to to be able to get the truth from one of the biggest names in the business. 
:thumb:


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## DocIS200 (Oct 5, 2011)

I bet if we all went on there and started saying who pays 2 grand for a new turbo to get a few extra horse power they wouldn't like it. I've had evo's in the past and gt4 celicas but always kept them standard and immaculate. And I bet they all pay a fortune to specialists to service them... That's the same thing, I'm not a mechanic so I pay a main dealer to service my car!! Same as if u can't machine polish u pay a pro to do it! Idiots


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## Ongoing (Sep 3, 2012)

Millzer said:


> Mito Man - The one man fight against detailing...Wait....
> 
> Sorry bud, didn't realise... Welcome to Detailing World! :buffer:


I was just thinking exactly the same thing


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

m2srt said:


> If people knew how to spot the difference between a clean car and a truly detailed car, they would say details represent good value


Would it im not sure it would (though i know what your saying), i dont think you need to be able to spot the difference but appreciate it. yeh they can look and say it looks cleaner but unless having a spotless car is of high importance to them then it will never justify the price tag.

We all have a ladder of where we place things on how important they are to us, seeing my boy and wife happy is top, having a nice secure home comes second and so on


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## svended (Oct 7, 2011)

People think I'm bad for the amount of money I spend on products and time I spend on doing cars. But they only see a dirty car and then a really clean car. Many have asked what I use and how to do things with the intention of being a detailer and cleaning Lamborghinis and Ferraris for thousands of pounds. They soon loose interest when thats simply not the case and the amount of hard work that goes into it. 
There are always going to be people that don't understand others hobbies or why people do things they simply don't have the time, energy, patience or inclination to do, unfortunately a few of those would rather ***** about it than get on with what they do enjoy doing. 
Kelly. I've seen the work you and your guys do and it's bloody exceptional. I'd love to be able to do some training at your place when time and money allows. Until then I can only dream, and enjoy what I'm doing in my free time.


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## m2srt (Oct 5, 2012)

alan hanson said:


> Would it im not sure it would (though i know what your saying), i dont think you need to be able to spot the difference but appreciate it. yeh they can look and say it looks cleaner but unless having a spotless car is of high importance to them then it will never justify the price tag.
> 
> We all have a ladder of where we place things on how important they are to us, seeing my boy and wife happy is top, having a nice secure home comes second and so on


The ladder is something I get and yes If I didn't have the money to spare, detailing would go on the back burner. But, the way I see it is, I don't have kids, so who am I working my ass off for? So I guess my ladder has fewer rungs.


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

I don't mind spending some more cash on the car. If the morgage is paid and my son and wife and my lovely dog have everything the want and need, I will spend lot of my cash on my car, as it is a big investment and keeping it clean will help on the lifespan of the car. In a few years my car then passes on to the misses and I get a new one


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

DocIS200 said:


> I bet if we all went on there and started saying who pays 2 grand for a new turbo to get a few extra horse power they wouldn't like it. I've had evo's in the past and gt4 celicas but always kept them standard and immaculate. And I bet they all pay a fortune to specialists to service them... That's the same thing, I'm not a mechanic so I pay a main dealer to service my car!! Same as if u can't machine polish u pay a pro to do it! Idiots


I think it would be good to read the link before commenting, you've just insulted a lot of car owners who like having detailed cars :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's Evo the car Magazine, not Mitsi Evo owners


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## DocIS200 (Oct 5, 2011)

Alex L said:


> I think it would be good to read the link before commenting, you've just insulted a lot of car owners who like having detailed cars :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> It's Evo the car Magazine, not Mitsi Evo owners


I did read it. I never said it was mitsi owners club I was just saying I had high powered cars before. If I insulted anyone I apologise as that's not my intention, I'm merely stating that they shouldn't go on about the price of detailing when most of them wouldn't blink an eye at paying main dealer prices to get service work done..it's a comparison between diy service/main dealer service and diy detailing/professional services. Maybe u didn't read my post correctly


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## Patr1ck (Mar 10, 2013)

Kelly @ KDS said:


> since starting the KDS training courses up around 2 years ago , (trained over 200 pupils when you include the group days) i was surprised at the enquires for training (mainly one to one which there has been around 180 enquires) that wanted to learn "detailing" to start up a new business with the idea of earning very good money.
> 
> One person asked how much money the KDS course will make him as soon as he starts his new business, even thou they had no past skill or customers.
> 
> kelly


I actually took the course with Kelly (one to one) and asked a question very similar to the one above.... Were you referring to me Kelly?????? :thumb:

Because if so, then I actually asked not how much I would earn, but would I have a good foundation to earn money based on your training course.

I actually earn very very good money selling Mercedes Benz but don't get the same enjoyment as I do when detailing a car. I'm by no means as experienced as Kelly and the boys, and to be fair the trade isn't easy but I love it, and in my opinion KDS are worth every penny....... Whether it be training or detailing


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