# average winter tyres v good summer tyres



## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

following on from the earlier post about fitting winter tyres i'm already to go buy some but the tight yorkshire man in me isnt allowing my wallet to come out!

ive bought a second set on OEM 18 inch wheels for the R32, gave them a coat of C5 , got the nod of the wife to spend the money and priced up the winters -

budget at £75 a corner with grip C and Avons at £100 a corner at grip B

cars currently running PS4's with almost a full tread as only do 4k a year.

but theres a nagging feeling that i dont _really_ need them. the car weighs over a ton and half and has 4WD (more or less) and i travel 5 miles to work from a suburb estate to the town center on busy roads.

only thing i'm thinking is we havnt had a bad winter since 2010 so due one!


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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

Oh, and the rims are original silver so will make the car look different over winter!










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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

You'll have a massive split in opinions on this, as per usual with winter tyres!!

I think my stance on them is well known, but just in case and for what it is worth, I have with 4 cars, 2 of which are 4x4 (and proper full time stuff, not the foofoo reactive golf stuff  ) and I use winter tyres on all of them.

My FWD with winters can drive around so called 4x4/AWD/Xdrive/whatever they are called with "normal" tyres when/if the snow hits.

But, for me anyway, winter tyres are more than just about snow.

:thumb:


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## donnyboy (Oct 27, 2005)

I'm the same as you with only doing about 4k a year.

My last car was Leon Cupra with 300bhp. I also ran PS4 on my summer wheels.

In the winter I ran budget Kumho KW27 for about 3 years as I got them cheap. They were ok wet and dry and pretty good on snow, but greasy roads.....dangerous!! Really really bad. Could easily spin up the fronts in 1st,2nd and 3rd gear.

Last winter I ran Goodyear UltaGrip Gen1 and they were night and day. The traction was amazing in all conditions. In the days of snow they were fantastic. Even on dry days they were better than the PS4. Pulling out at junctionS where the PS4 would struggle, I had much more grip.

I found the PS4 lost traction when the temps dropped.

I've sold the car and dropped to 130bhp. Now running Michelin CrossClimate+ all round. So far they have been great. Snow with be the deciding factor for them.


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## EliteCarCare (Aug 25, 2006)

4wd may give you a little more traction but it won't help you stop any better.

I would recommend winter tyres all day long, been using them for years and run them on most of our cars. 

Even if there isn't snow the ground temps are usually well below zero on most cold days so having the softer rubber compound definitely helps.

In response to the OP, go for the best ones you can afford as the cheaper ones are cheap for a reason!

Alex


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

She panicked at the first sign of bad weather a few years ago and popped into a local garage. They ended up selling her Jinyu winter tyres for the MX5.

May as well have removed the tyre and tried to drive on the rim of the wheel. Grip levels were awful in every condition.

There might be the odd exception, but budget tyres are usually always false economy.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

I'm one of these that does over 20k miles a year, drove for over 30 years in N East of England and past 15 yrs in rural N Wales. I've never swapped tyres and use budgets as well😱 In all that time I've driven in some shocking weather and never had issues. You're averaging 11miles a day I'd say save your money.


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## percymon (Jun 27, 2007)

Tyres are your only contact patch on the road, so buy the best and most suitable tyre you can to suit your size and budget.

Everyone has their view, and locality does have a bearing, but in Wales i'd always swap from PS4s to something more suited. Summer performance tyres have no place in near/sub zero conditions. Check mytyres/blackcircles etc for the best prices, although with your choice of 18" rims (probably 17" would clear the brake calipers ) you'll be lucky to find many medium to high end choices under £100 a corner. Nankang got some good reviews on a couple of VW forums i frequented years ago, but one persons 'great' is another persons 'average ! 225/40/18 SV-3 are £80 a corner fitted via mytyres. Nexen also got a fair review on forums.

I've run..

Nokian WR on Mk6 Golf and Audi A3 SB - great tyres, good value, low noise and we better even on warm spring days than the Bridgestone Turanza summers !
Dunlop WinterSport 3D - on Mini R56 - brilliant in all conditions (and being non run flat was a added bonus !)
Dunlop WinterSport 5 - on Nissan Leaf - great tyres, managed 6" of snow easily (ran out of ground clearance before the tyres were the weak link), great on autumnal days on greasy lanes with mud and leaves
Bridgestone Blizzak - ran on a 4WD Mini Countryman - they were OK, better than the summer tyres but the 'worst' winter tyre i've experienced
Toyo Snowprox - admittedly i drove these on a VW Polo hire car in the summer (25-30'C) but even in these conditions they were a great tyre, even on twisty mountains roads. Despite the temperatures the tyres did not feel mushy at all.

Also look at used tyres - you can often pick up 2/4 tyre bundles from German sellers for a good price. Yes, part won, but so is every used car on a forecourt . Example (UK seller) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225-40-1...9407:g:j-kAAOSwl5Vduxxr&LH_ItemCondition=3000

Two downsides of winter tyres..

1. everyone following you thinks they have the same grip - i've had several instances of cars following me in snow who have spun off the road. Ditto following cars often only brake when they see your brake lights but may need many more metres to stop in time.

2. they do not make you invincible


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

percymon said:


> Also look at used tyres - you can often pick up 2/4 tyre bundles from German sellers for a good price. Yes, part won, but so is every used car on a forecourt .


We get all the used tyres that aren't good enough for Germany. If they aren't good enough for Germany why are they good enough for us?

Do you never think where all the rest come from too? I've never removed a perfectly good set of tyres from my car partway through their life and sold them.

Plenty get stripped off cars that have been written off and the car used for parts.

At least with a used car you can start to gauge the condition of the car, wheels and a little test drive. There is still some doubt, but not like buying part worn tyres that were dumped by someone else usually for some negative reason.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

There are a few videos knocking about showing the differences, a 2wd car on winters will out brake, accelerate and steer much better than a 4wd on summers.

There is also a difference between budget winter tyres and premium winter tyres, again by some distance.

you really want the narrowest tyre you can fit, 18's are great in the dry but poor in snow and slush. Ideally you need steel wheels as these can be straightened with a hammer should a kerb jump out in front of you.

In the dry a summer tyre is much better at stopping, in the wet the winters get closer, in the cold and wet it starts to swing towards the winters.

I would always reccomend them, i wouldn't spend masses but would look towards the Nexen winguard sports if you can find them, although Kumho WP51's are very cheap at the minute but don't score very high on wet braking. 

For me a winter tyre is not about the snow. As for part worns, winters are past there best when they hit 3mm


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## Cookeh (Apr 27, 2017)

The main point to consider with winter tyres is do you actually see prolonged periods of settled snow and sub-zero temperatures. If not, they aren't beneficial and will in fact be much more dangerous in normal dry and wet conditions. If you get some snow that settles for a few hours or a day or two once or twice over winter then consider good all season tyres. These are almost as capable as winter tyres on snow (very little in it, as they meet all the TUV and EU requirements of M+S), but do not suffer from the same poor issues with regards to wet and dry braking and handling.

If you live somewhere that frequently has settled snow for several days occurring almost weekly, with average temperatures consistently below zero during your driving times, then winters are sensible. Despite this, I still wouldn't recommend them over all seasons for the UK climate. After all we see far more rain than anything else at winter, and 'winter' tyres add tens of metres to braking distances in wet and dry, and significantly reduce handling speeds and aquaplaning speeds. 

Winter tyres are fantastic things, and I have driven thousands of miles in Swedish winters where I wouldn't dream of using anything else - they truly are an astounding thing when used in their intended conditions. The difference between the countries that enforce M+S tyres and the UK is that they see near constant settled snow and sub-zero temperatures through the entire day for the duration of their 4-5 month winters. We in the UK see maybe 2-5 days of settled snow and temperatures tend to only be beneath zero very early in the morning. Comparing the practices of such countries with ourselves is farcical.


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## BrummyPete (Jun 10, 2010)

I normally have fwd cars and have always just used normal summer tyres in all weather Inc mental snow, with the Merc I have decided to get winters due to rwd and them being totally crap in snow (if it appears) and I've for for budget Riken tyres first impressions are good and will see what happens if we get a tinkering of snow

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## JoeyJoeJo (Jan 3, 2014)

I ran winters on my Golf R (Conti TS850s I think) and I really rated them, even in just the chilly, kinda greasy roads, they felt a lot better, and when the ice hit my road, because it was in constant shadow, it was there for weeks and made a huge difference. They street also had a massive camber and switching to summers early highlighted how good they were.
I couldn't get to the end of the road without the TC light on summers, don't recall seeing it on with the winters. 

100 each sounds reasonable to me and remember in that time, you're not wearing but the other ones.
And even if you get a coupe of seasons, you'll be able to sell the complete rims with winters no problem, I sold mine for the same as I paid so the only cost to me was a coupe of swaps which was 10 quid to the guy at ATS.

But a thing I always recall from years ago from a guy I knew - it's all very well if you can stop in 60/100/150 feet but the guy on summers behind you travelling at the same speed certainly won't be...


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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

Another winter tyre supporter here.

I'm picking up a new to me car on Saturday and will be booking it in for some winters next week.

I've read many reports/research docs suggesting they perform better than the usual summer tyres at temp's less than 7'c, let alone in adverse/snow conditions.

I was completely converted last year when we had snow late Feb/March time from memory - I was chauffeuring a client from Heathrow to Bristol in a RWD Mercedes with winters. The M4 was white with no lane definition, many cars including lots of BMW's essentially parked with hazards on on the hard shoulder & stopped on the inclined exit slips going nowhere, we pootled along at 40 without a hint of slip/spin/tc light etc, this was the same when negotiating the hills of Bristol to get to Clifton.

You should find plenty of videos etc online showing a rwd car with winters easily outperforming a 4wd car on summer tyres.
I think we should make them mandatory like they are in parts of Europe.

Cheers,

Chris


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Summit Detailing said:


> Another winter tyre supporter here.
> 
> I'm picking up a new to me car on Saturday and will be booking it in for some winters next week.
> 
> ...


All well and good but in reality road conditions like that are few and far between for most of the country. You're using down South there as an example as well which is not great. Those of us up North know that 2 flakes of snow down there and the whole place stops😂


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

I went for all season tyres about a year ago.

Vredestein Quatrac 5 on my Honda CR-V.
I've been very happy with them in the 12k or so I've done.
There is loads of tread left, about 5.5 - 6mm on the fronts and they have been pretty sure-footed in the winter weather, well, last year anyway, not been really cold yet this winter.

I wont be too worried when we see a bit of the white stuff on the ground.

Used as a daily, they have been fine in the spring and summer, though as the CR-V is not a car to be pushed hard anyway, they have had an easy life so far.

FYI, £75 a corner fitted for the Quatrac 5.
Some good videos on Youtube made me go for them.


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## Blackroc (Dec 10, 2012)

All Season Tyres could be the perfect answer here - not full on Winter, and not too shabby in the summer Either.

Michelin Cross Climate are extremely highly regarded as are Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons that have just won Auto Express All season tyre test for 2019.

I can also vouch for Vredestein's Quatrac 5's abilities too in heavy snow! They might not be specific winter tyre but they are outstanding in all weathers!


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## BruceVolvo (Oct 31, 2016)

I put my first set of winters on Saturday picked up with the wheels on ebay in the summer there Avon WV7 snow which I suppose would be described as an average tyre and never having had winters before I don't know what to expect.

Before










After










The car looks different though, not sure whether I like it yet.


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## Peirre (Jun 29, 2015)

I have a full set of 5x 15” winter conti’s on steel rims (1 unused) that I had for the R6 Polo, but AFAIK I don’t think they’ll fit the new AW1 polo Gti that I’m driving now as that’s fitted with 18” Bresicas, and it has discs all round. I’m hunting for a set of 17”/18” steel rims for the Gti so I can fit 17”/18” winter tyres but the dealer says only 15” steel rims are available for this stud pattern. 
I may take a chance this weekend and try to fit the 15’s to see if they have enough clearance, otherwise I’ll put the 5x 15’s up for sale.


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## Gas head (May 28, 2010)

Agree with Summit and James they perform better at lower temperatures there doesn't have to be snow to get the benefit during the colder months, I had Michelin alpin 5 on a golf and they felt sure footed all the time including when wet, pretty sure the compounds are different and gives the tyre the flexibility it requires to grip, less than 7 deg centigrade rings a bell from when I bought them as well, well worth the money.


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## chris.t (Jan 18, 2014)

This is a good video showing the difference between winter and summer tyres, i know its long but to me its worth a watch.


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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

after weeks of reading and research finally decided on Nexen Winguard Sport 2 225/40 R18 92V XL. paid £70 a corner delivered and will get a local fitter to put them on for £40?

mid range, had better than average reviews and seem a sensiable comprimise on dry, wet and snow


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

kingswood said:


> after weeks of reading and research finally decided on Nexen Winguard Sport 2 225/40 R18 92V XL. paid £70 a corner delivered and will get a local fitter to put them on for £40?
> 
> mid range, had better than average reviews and seem a sensiable comprimise on dry, wet and snow


Sounds alright kingswood. :thumb:

The Nexen (all season) were in my shortlist with the Vredestein.

I'm sure you will be fine with them


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## Cookeh (Apr 27, 2017)

Reading reviews on then I wouldn't touch them with someone else's bargepole, let alone mine. The last thing you want to see in review comments for a tyre that will be driven in the UK climate of almost entirely rain is "very long wet braking distances" - or comments on above average dry braking!

Still, you've got them now so all you can do is be aware of the increased breaking distances and factor that in to your driving, should be fine then and if you can avoid any emergency scenarios.


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## BrummyPete (Jun 10, 2010)

I've put riken winter tyres on mine and they are much better than the Dunlop summer tyres I took off, riken are certainly cheap but work well on my heavy car 

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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

Cookeh said:


> Reading reviews on then I wouldn't touch them with someone else's bargepole, let alone mine. The last thing you want to see in review comments for a tyre that will be driven in the UK climate of almost entirely rain is "very long wet braking distances" - or comments on above average dry braking!
> 
> Still, you've got them now so all you can do is be aware of the increased breaking distances and factor that in to your driving, should be fine then and if you can avoid any emergency scenarios.


its a fair point and reflected in the fact theyre mid range. ive looked at reviews for weeks and unless youre buying one of each of the best catogeory theres always going to be a comprimise. some are great in snow, others in wet, others in dry etc

as my opening posts i'm hoping these mid range winter tyres will be better and safer than my premium summer tyres.


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## Cookeh (Apr 27, 2017)

They aren't, a comparison of the provided data for stopping distances in wet and dry shows those winter tyres are significantly worse than any premium summer tyre. I demonstrated that quite clearly in several links further up the thread. Engineering Explained on YouTube also shows the same conclusion comparing premium winter and premium summer tyres in braking conditions in -5'c temperatures. The differences in stopping distances he recorded was around 10m, which often exceeds the difference in braking distances between ultra high performance tyres and £30 budgets... You wouldn't put budget summers on, so would you? 

M+S tyres are for snow, that's what the compound and tyre pattern is for. Winter tyres are OK in the UK if you live in regions with lots of snow, but winter tyres in wet or dry climates without snow are more dangerous than a summer tyre. As also linked to above, if you're looking to bridge the gap between summer and winter tyres on the small amount of snow we get, whilst also minimising the decrease in performance in wet and dry conditions then all season tyres are the sensible option in this country. But, you can minimise these difference sby adjusting your driving style - though really that's all you needed to do with your summer tyres in the first place.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

M+S means nothing just that they are better than the summer tyres a firm makes.. no official testing ..

The 3peaks and snowflake is what to look for as there a minimum criteria to meet

I've got no room to store four tyres  so I plumped for some Nexen 4 seasons with 3psf)

Past 9 years I've not seen much snow but lots of Ice...

And they got too marks for ice

https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrze...hresreifen/175-65-r14t/detail/?ProductId=3859

ADAC also have a good back dated winter summer and all season catalogue of tests


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

The Nexens get reasonable reviews, they are not the best but they are far from the worst. If i was putting winters on these would be my choice.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

Watched this video yesterday





Shows summer tires and RWD can be done in winter in really bad weather. Im yet to see weather like this around my end for 15 years. Problem is most drivers nowadays have no clue how to drive when it starts snowing, or make stupid decisions i.e. lets take a shortcut through a back road....


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## GSI-MAN (Sep 12, 2017)

My daughter needs some new tyres 
Might go for some Nexens


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

SteveTDCi said:


> The Nexens get reasonable reviews, they are not the best but they are far from the worst. If i was putting winters on these would be my choice.


Took mine out this morning running the 4 season Nexen and the grip on frost / ice was very good ... Back to the person following you blindly getting all out of shape :driver:


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## BrummyPete (Jun 10, 2010)

Rayaan said:


> Watched this video yesterday
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree it can be done but during this video he doesn't go anywhere near any steep roads that I have to encounter going to work, I've always had fwd cars and always had summer tyres, with my Rwd car I'm not taking any chances, my cheap rikens have so far outperformed my Dunlop tyres they replaced

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## moncris (Jan 2, 2018)

Aside from Nexen, Hankook is pretty decent also. I had a set of hankook winter tires RW06 and got good wear out of them. Very dependable in the snow and slush, but average on dry roads. Good value for money.


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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

Fitted the nexens - £10 a corner at mates rates - and gives the car a different look for the winter. Think it makes the car look it's age?

Been taking it steady getting usted to the new rubber and bearing in mind the advice given on here about them not been as good on wet muddy roads

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## cangri (Feb 25, 2011)

summer tire for summer

and if you go only city or barely get any snow then for winter an all-season tire is better


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## Cyclonetog (Jul 22, 2018)

cangri said:


> ...or barely get any snow...


I've owned my current car for almost 18 months and I still have no idea what it's like on snow as I haven't had the chance to try.


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## cangri (Feb 25, 2011)

Cyclonetog said:


> I've owned my current car for almost 18 months and I still have no idea what it's like on snow as I haven't had the chance to try.


on wet conditions and winter (low temp) an all season is better that a winter tire.

because all-season has also the summer profile which is good as pulling out the water from under the tie

The winter tire has the grooves to grab snow and provide good traction in the snow, but on the wet is weaker.


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## Bill58 (Jul 5, 2010)

Put my winter tyres on yesterday just in time for the snow this morning.


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