# Detail Vs Valet



## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

As title.

Detail Vs Valet 

Detailer Vs Valeter

What do you think the definition between them should be?

Or do you think there should be a difference in definition....

Let the debate begin


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

give this a few hours before its closed , to many differences of opinion , which normally ends up in a slanging match


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

Detailing is a very very very vey posh valet. paint correction is on top of that, as well as great protection for the car before someone jumps on me. im cringing waiting for someone to pounce.


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

PETER @ ECLIPSE said:


> give this a few hours before its closed , to many differences of opinion , which normally ends up in a slanging match


 Totally agree Peter.
Clocks ticking.


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

here we go. i can feel it coming


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

Detailing-American

Valeting-British

In recent times though some valetors have improved their techniques and taken their skills to another level with things like paint correction. This coincided with the word 'detail' becoming more popular over here through the internet and people reading American detailing forums and has left us with a core of UK valetors who have decided to use the term 'detail' as a way of describing an 'advanced' valet.

I now think of a valet as being a really good cleaning of a vehicle and a detail as a valet with extra steps involved to perfect the vehicle.


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

phew


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## Dougster (Jun 12, 2007)

I think the term 'valet' can only be taken so far until it actually becomes a 'detail' which has so many levels there is little point in arguing over the terminology.


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

The thing is though, chaps, whenever a thread topic like this rears it's head on here, that's had a tendancy to erupt in the past, does it really help posting anything 'negative' before it's even got started?

It's a bit like the 'bad kid' at school - if everyone constantly expects him to mess up and be bad, chances are he will keep doing so. But given a little encouragement and pointers in the right direction he _might_ do good.

So, with the topics that have ended badly in the past, if we're giving in to the idea that they won't last long going on previous cases, right from the start, it's highly likely that's how it will pan out. Instead can we try, from the outset, to keep them on the correct path and maybe, just maybe, then we can have a proper debate about it rather having to close it?


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

PETER @ ECLIPSE said:


> give this a few hours before its closed , to many differences of opinion , which normally ends up in a slanging match





caledonia said:


> Totally agree Peter.
> Clocks ticking.


It shouldn't need to end up that way  I know what you mean but looking good so far:lol:


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

The Doctor said:


> Detailing-American
> 
> Valeting-British
> 
> ...





Dougster said:


> I think the term 'valet' can only be taken so far until it actually becomes a 'detail' which has so many levels there is little point in arguing over the terminology.


I agree chaps. It depends on how far you go with the valeting process, if it is done to a concours level then surely a valeter can equally claim he has detailed the car.

But I know valeters that will do three minging cars in a day and use a product that cleans and dresses in one sweep.

It is why I think a debate is good and even begs the question should there be a qualification for said services:thumb:


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

from experience viper , i dont think the topic is explainable as theres to many variants , and all are relevant in one way or another


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

I would class Valeting as a thorough clean and possible polish/wax generally over the space of a day.

Detailing involving a lot more time and often multiple days, using machine polishers and protection to all areas, with extra time spent adding the finishing touches and small details, basically the full package to excess.


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Gleammachine said:


> I would class a valeting as a thorough clean and possible polish/wax generally over the space of a day.
> 
> Detailing involving a lot more time and often multiple days, using machine polishers and protection to all areas, with extra time spent adding the finishing touches and small details, basically the full package to excess.


Thanks Rob:thumb: Kind of my thoughts What do you think about a qualification?


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

as this owt to do with somet i put in that autosmart post planet polish:lol:.it was only my view


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

In essence they are the same meaning, to clean a car. However Valeting use to be associated with being a bit of a high end thing when i started out (1999) and was a pretty credible thing to be doing and it was really only for the higher end of the market (us normal people used the car wash) but then all the car park car washes and immigrant car washes poped up started calling them selfs "veleting services" where as IMO they are little more than a car wash at best. This devalued the name / brand / industry and devalued the services offered by many decent companies. 

We made the move to "detailing" rather than "valeting" around 4-5 years ago, but to be honest the basis of the work is about the same in essence, all be it alot of new products and techniques have surfaced and been added to the process used to "clean a car" and so have our knowledge and treatments but thats just evolution, and thats what i think it all comes down to, valeting (proper valeting) has evolved in to detailing to meet the needs of todays car owners and the paint types that are used now days. back in the day i guess what we are all doing now would be classed as concourse?

Valeting, people know the term but dont assosiate it with any thing of quality

Detailing, for now (its going a bit down hill down days tho) people notice it as some thing of high end quality, 


Thats my take on it from doing it as a profession for 10 years (officially this week ), at the end of the day we do roughly the same thing, we all clean a car but as detailers we go alot more indepth.


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## caddyman (Dec 2, 2008)

Dougster said:


> I think the term 'valet' can only be taken so far until it actually becomes a 'detail' which has so many levels there is little point in arguing over the terminology.


So therefore a Interior valet differs in what way to an Interior Detail?
as some pro's have said in the past the Interior was detailed??

So what is the difference between a full interior valet and a full interior detail?


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

chrisc said:


> as this owt to do with somet i put in that autosmart post planet polish:lol:.it was only my view


Hi Chris. Not just you mate:thumb: The whole post gave rise to the question posted here. Your answer sped the process up a bit:lol:


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

caddyman said:


> So therefore a Interior valet differs in what way to an Interior Detail?


It depends who is doing it for one. As suggested above a detailer would clean a dash before dressing it and maybe a final wipedown.

A valeter *may* use a dressing with a MF and give it a single sweep.

Not difinitive I know but I have seen this done:thumb:


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

^^ i know many "detailers" that would do less than what you quoted the valet may do. . . 

And know a couple of very good "valeters" that would do as much as you quote a detailer to do.

Its not the buzz word under the name its the people doing it.

As for a qualification, i dont think as an industry this young there is any way possible, id not let say you judge my work and say whether i can call my self a qualified "detailer" or use the word "detailing" under my business name nor many others, i have respect for a good few other detailers and valeters alike but i think the whole "approved" thing like Swissvax and others do is about as far as it will ever go for a long time yet at least.


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

caddyman said:


> So therefore a Interior valet differs in what way to an Interior Detail?


It probably doesn't other than possibly the products used, basically during the cleaning stages for both interior and exterior, Valeting and Detailing don't really differ, it is the stages after this that a difference is had.


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

james b said:


> Its not the buzz word under the name its the people doing it.


Wow that is spooky James:thumb:


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## caddyman (Dec 2, 2008)

Planet Man said:


> It depends who is doing it for one. As suggested above a detailer would clean a dash before dressing it and maybe a final wipedown.
> 
> A valeter *may* use a dressing with a MF and give it a single sweep.
> 
> Not difinitive I know but I have seen this done:thumb:


Ok lets say:

Full interior valet - back to showroom condition

Seats / carpets - hoovered, shampoo cleaned
Plastics - cleaned and dressed
Mats - cleaned and dressed
interior glass - cleaned
door shuts cleaned
rubbers treated
air freshner applied
Full works on the interior

So where would a detail overtake this?


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## mwbpsx (Jun 23, 2006)

caddyman said:


> So therefore a Interior valet differs in what way to an Interior Detail?
> as some pro's have said in the past the Interior was detailed??
> 
> So what is the difference between a full interior valet and a full interior detail?


I would take my polo to a valeter and he would say, 'sorry bud but Im not sure how good I will get down the sides of the front seats cos its a very tight gap'. A detailer would see the same gap and explain that he would have to remove the seats to detail the interior:thumb:

just my thought


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## KennyC (Aug 11, 2008)

james b said:


> We made the move to "detailing" rather than "valeting" around 4-5 years ago, but to be honest the basis of the work is about the same in essence, all be it alot of new products and techniques have surfaced and been added to the process used to "clean a car" and so have our knowledge and treatments but thats just evolution, and thats what i think it all comes down to, valeting (proper valeting) has evolved in to detailing to meet the needs of todays car owners and the paint types that are used now days. back in the day i guess what we are all doing now would be classed as concourse?


Says it all really. When I'm "valeting" it's 4-5 hours work with cheapish products, more cleaning than correction (unless something is really tatty). When I'm detailing I use expensive products and spend more time on the job in hand. A detail is at least a full days work imo.


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

caddyman said:


> Ok lets say:
> 
> Full interior valet - back to showroom condition
> 
> ...


It wouldn't. That is a detail.:thumb:

Not trying to prove a difference here but as the thread is developing it is clear that who is the doing the detail/valet and how they achieve it, could be the difference


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

caddyman said:


> Ok lets say:
> 
> Full interior valet - back to showroom condition
> 
> ...


^^ You want to see the spec Mike works to on interiors, it would make your list look puney LOL

For a start you missed out the roof lining, the boot the spare wheel, the glove box, all the cubby holes, pedels, polishing of any wood, cleaning a proper conditioning of any leather trim (car we have in now even has a leather roof lining) lifing up of the seats (if you can) seat belts, Oh i can go on and on.....


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

mwbpsx said:


> I would take my polo to a valeter and he would say, 'sorry bud but Im not sure how good I will get down the sides of the front seats cos its a very tight gap'. A detailer would see the same gap and explain that he would have to remove the seats to detail the interior:thumb:
> 
> just my thought





KennyC said:


> Says it all really. When I'm "valeting" it's 4-5 hours work with cheapish products, more cleaning than correction (unless something is really tatty). When I'm detailing I use expensive products and spend more time on the job in hand. A detail is at least a full days work imo.


Thanks Fellas. That is kind of where I am coming from:thumb:


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## caddyman (Dec 2, 2008)

mwbpsx said:


> I would take my polo to a valeter and he would say, 'sorry bud but Im not sure how good I will get down the sides of the front seats cos its a very tight gap'. A detailer would see the same gap and explain that he would have to remove the seats to detail the interior:thumb:
> 
> just my thought


No offence but i wouldn't let anyone take out my seats unless they was an approved garage
There are tools that valeters carry for such issues as down the sides of seats it's called a long crevice tool

As for removing seats, wheels etc i see that as very dangerous as all it takes is for them to be fitted back into the car incorrectly and if you had an accident and that seat due to been incorrectly fitted could void one's insurance if an investigator went over the car


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

james b said:


> ^^ You want to see the spec Mike works to on interiors, it would make your list look puney LOL
> 
> For a start you missed out the roof lining, the boot the spare wheel, the glove box, all the cubby holes, pedels, polishing of any wood, cleaning a proper conditioning of any leather trim (car we have in now even has a leather roof lining) lifing up of the seats (if you can) seat belts, Oh i can go on and on.....


Thanks James. When the word Detailing clearly isn't enough


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## KennyC (Aug 11, 2008)

caddyman said:


> So where would a detail overtake this?


Leather gaitors cleaned and conditioned, speedo etc taken out and polished when possible, carpets redyed (sp?) if nessesary, air vents cleaned with cotton bud/ detailing stick and a fabric guard applied where possible.


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## caddyman (Dec 2, 2008)

james b said:


> ^^ You want to see the spec Mike works to on interiors, it would make your list look puney LOL
> 
> For a start you missed out the roof lining, the boot the spare wheel, the glove box, all the cubby holes, pedels, polishing of any wood, cleaning a proper conditioning of any leather trim (car we have in now even has a leather roof lining) lifing up of the seats (if you can) seat belts, Oh i can go on and on.....


That wasn't a full list James it was an example - hence me putting to showroom condition
would you like me to relist it again to include everything?

Then compare that valet as a full valet to a detail???


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

caddyman said:


> No offence but i wouldn't let anyone take out my seats unless they was an approved garage
> There are tools that valeters carry for such issues as down the sides of seats it's called a long crevice tool
> 
> As for removing seats, wheels etc i see that as very dangerous as all it takes is for them to be fitted back into the car incorrectly and if you had an accident and that seat due to been incorrectly fitted could void one's insurance if an investigator went over the car


^^ what are you on about? i said lift them, if they do lift ie back seats, where did any one mention taking off wheels?


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

caddyman said:


> No offence but i wouldn't let anyone take out my seats unless they was an approved garage
> There are tools that valeters carry for such issues as down the sides of seats it's called a long crevice tool
> 
> As for removing seats, wheels etc i see that as very dangerous as all it takes is for them to be fitted back into the car incorrectly and if you had an accident and that seat due to been incorrectly fitted could void one's insurance if an investigator went over the car


There is usually a plug and socket for the electrics and airbags etc. Just a few bolts and you are done. Nothing complex in my experience:thumb:


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## caddyman (Dec 2, 2008)

Full interior valet - back to showroom condition

Seats / carpets - hoovered, shampoo cleaned
Plastics - cleaned and dressed
Mats - cleaned and dressed
interior glass - cleaned
door shuts cleaned
rubbers treated
air freshner applied
Boot space cleaned
roof lining
vents - comes under plastics cleaned /dressed
pedals comes under plastics cleaned /dressed
glove box comes under plastics cleaned /dressed
cubby holes comes under plastics cleaned /dressed
leather cleaning (if it has leather) but i was referring to a cloth interior but for the picky ones!!! 
gearstick gaiter cleaned comes under plastics cleaned /dressed
speedo clocks cleaned comes under plastics cleaned /dressed
steering wheel cleaned comes under plastics cleaned /dressed
wood / metal polished
seatbelts cleaned

Sorry if i've missed anything off this list this time - but as said back to showroom so a full interior valet with nothing missed / left unclean

So is this a full interior valet or Full interior Detail


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

caddyman said:


> That wasn't a full list James it was an example - hence me putting to showroom condition
> would you like me to relist it again to include everything?
> 
> Then compare that valet as a full valet to a detail???


No cos your just going to add the bits i pointed out  I think you stating "back to show room" says enough. id not offer that on any used car full stop cos i cant turn back the clock on general wear and tear of use.

Read my first post again, im not here arguing, im agreeing if anything that valeting and detailing are basically the same (basically take note of that part) i think the main difference between services offered by detailing companies as opposed to valeting lies on the exterior work, claying, machine polishing, dedicated conditioning and sealing products (ie pre wax cleaner then a nuba wax as opposed to some SRP or an all in one by hand) sealing whells and so on i know a valeter may and could do these stage but its not common and most that do offer these types of treatments label there business and services as detailing to distance them selfs from the likes of splash n dash merchants and the car park washes.


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

i think its same in any buissnes you have good valeters and bad valeters.people will say yeah get im hes a good valeter and some will say dont get im hes cack.i can honestly say ive never heard any body say can you detail my car its always been valet my car but im from yorkshire.you can have a good valeter what goes in to detail which is work proud does it make im any less good than someone calling himself a detailer.no.to me the term valeter is a term whats been going round for years:thumb:


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## caddyman (Dec 2, 2008)

james b said:


> ^^ what are you on about? i said lift them, if they do lift ie back seats, where did any one mention taking off wheels?


I was referring to post number 24!! not what you said James


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

caddyman said:


> Full interior valet - back to showroom condition
> 
> Seats / carpets - hoovered, shampoo cleaned
> Plastics - cleaned and dressed
> ...


Caddyman

We hear what you are saying, lets not get this topic over heated as it is proving to be interesting debate. (surprised you listed all that stuff though)

Anyway to show how easy a seat can come out take a look at this post just nicked from the showroom.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=1816176&posted=1#post1816176

Now I don't think your average 2 car a day man would/could so this.

Do you see where I am coming from:thumb:

Can I go home to get something to eat now. Keep it friendly as I want to tune in again later!!


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

To be honest i think what he added at the start was about what a "normal" valet service would include.


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## caddyman (Dec 2, 2008)

Yes i see where your coming from - but it's not something i would let someone other than an authorised garage do tbh - my personal choice

You will find that Lloyd from coversure has covered this subject re: valeters/detailers insurance that it does not and will not cover the removal of wheels or fixtures in vehicles!


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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

simples, to pay attetention to detail is a detail
don,t pay attention to detail is a valet.
arguments on a public forum does you or the forum no favours fact.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

^^ There is no argument, its a discussion :thumb:



caddyman said:


> Yes i see where your coming from - but it's not something i would let someone other than an authorised garage do tbh - my personal choice
> 
> You will find that Lloyd from coversure has covered this subject re: valeters/detailers insurance that it does not and will not cover the removal of wheels or fixtures in vehicles!


A standard valeters insurance no, but you can get cover for it trust me


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## RedCloudMC (Jul 19, 2008)

james b said:


> No cos your just going to add the bits i pointed out  I think you stating "back to show room" says enough. id not offer that on any used car full stop cos i cant turn back the clock on general wear and tear of use.
> 
> Read my first post again, im not here arguing, im agreeing if anything that valeting and detailing are basically the same (basically take note of that part) i think the main difference between services offered by detailing companies as opposed to valeting lies on the exterior work, claying, machine polishing, dedicated conditioning and sealing products (ie pre wax cleaner then a nuba wax as opposed to some SRP or an all in one by hand) sealing whells and so on i know a valeter may and could do these stage but its not common and most that do offer these types of treatments label there business and services as detailing to distance them selfs from the likes of splash n dash merchants and the car park washes.


I normally stay clear of comment in these types of posts as there are MANY different points of view and sometimes the discussion gets a bit lost en route. However, I do feel I have to agree with James here. What he wrote above is, in my eyes, a pretty fair summation of the main differences. Detailers, in general, take a lot more time, care and attention than valeters do..in general. We perform paint correction and use some of the best products you can use on your car that are tailored to what you the customer wants to achieve. It goes without saying that I, nor I am aure from what I know of James' work, would ever be satisfied with anything less than the best possible finish. We would not rush a job through for the sake of a quick turn around and a quick buck as, in my experience, many 'valeters' do. This is not to say we (detailers) are better than valeters, we're just slightly different in the level of service we offer. There are only a few differences - it is not a case of 'us' and 'them'...we all take car care seriously and in my case it is my profession as well as hobby...we all provide a service for cars...just to a different level on the exterior of the car.

There is a company, who shall remain nameless, in a very local industrial estate to me that has set up using nothing but AG products (nothing wrong there before the AG fans set upon me! ) and claims to offer paint correction. On mystery shopping him he told me that SRP would correct my paintwork and leave it protected as well as any high end wax. I rest my case. There are good and bad in all walks of life. Choose a valeter or detailer carefully as you would do anyone you're about to part cash for and test out their knowledge before doing so. The good guys will give you honest answers.

My point in the example above is that much of what he said was very accurate (except the bit about SRP!!) so he does know his basics really well. But the term detailer is too often used by people such as this person as it is seen to impress people without any appreciation of the differences, no matter how small they are, between the two. James explanation of how he sees the differences is as good as I could possibly come up with...they're small differences but, in terms of final finish, considerable ones!

My final thought is...if you wanted to go and see a really good movie, be entertained and be talking about it to your mates afterwards, would you appreciate the last 30 minutes of the film being replaced by a 5 minute summary? No...you wouldn't. Both versions would be similar, would entertain and provide a service. BUT only the full film/service will leave you smiling and make it memorable!

Woh! Brain ache now.

Cheers :thumb:


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## dw0510 (Oct 22, 2006)

Who cares....


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

:lol:


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## spitfire (Feb 10, 2007)

This is a question which pops up from time to time and one which I don't truthfully know the answer. If a valet has become a lesser service than a detail here in the UK (and I'm not convinced it is) then I'd be interested to here from someone in the US. If all they have is detailers then how do they differentiate between someone who cleans cars and one who also does paint correction.

If I'm right, and I suspect I am, the word detailer in the US encompasses all and you'd need to enquire as to what services each company supplies. Over here we seem to have moved away from the single term valeter to show a clear difference between cleaning cars and providing a service that comes closer to concourse standard but for daily driving cars.

For *me* the main difference is machine polishing. Valeters tend not to offer this service. Detailers do. We in the Uk have obviously found a need for this new term for to distinguish between the two. Whereas in the US they seem content to remain under the one umbrella.


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## spindem (Jul 9, 2009)

Car wash = 5 - 20 minutes of detailing £5 - £20

A Valeter = 1 - 3 hours detailing £25 - £80

A Detailer = 1 - 7 days detailing £100 - £1000


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## RedCloudMC (Jul 19, 2008)

tmlvaleting said:


> Who cares....


Spoken like a true valeter! :thumb:

JOKE!!!!!


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

In the US the guys cleaning cars call them selfs a car wash not a detailing service (well from what iv seen on my trips out there so they dont have the huge need to distance there services.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

spindem said:


> Car wash = 5 - 20 minutes of detailing £5 - £20
> 
> A Valeter = 1 - 3 hours detailing £25 - £80
> 
> A Detailer = 1 - 7 days detailing £100 - £1000


oooh no he went and brought price in to it, im off before this gets really messy.

Remember its pretty much all the same the "buzz" word just helps people differentiate between the level services offered.

Car wash, is (generally) splish splash splosh, get the dirt off (regardless of care taken) looks clean from 10FT

Valeter, (generally) a decent clean, so it looks clean, tidy and shiny from 5 ft

Detail (generally) a deep clean and doing each stage thoroughly with dedicated products to exacting standards.

There are of course exeptions to each example, hence "generally"


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## caddyman (Dec 2, 2008)

spindem said:


> Car wash = 5 - 20 minutes of detailing £5 - £20
> 
> A Valeter = 1 - 3 hours detailing £25 - £80
> 
> A Detailer = 1 - 7 days detailing £100 - £1000


Maths:

Going by what you say here i work this out

Car wash - 20mins - £20.00 = £60.00 per hour

Valeter 1 hours - £25.00 = £25.00 per hour

Detailer - 1 days (8hrs per day) - £100 = £12.50 per hour???

James don't have a heart attack lol


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## RedCloudMC (Jul 19, 2008)

Guys, please let's not start the price comparisons...this is detailing world not Go Compare!

The fact is detailing, valeting, washing are all services and you cannot explain the difference between most goods and services by price alone.

When is a house not a house? When it costs less than £100k? Does it become a mansion at £500k? See...a silly way of describing differences. 

This discussion is not about price.


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## spindem (Jul 9, 2009)

caddyman said:


> Maths:
> 
> Going by what you say here i work this out
> 
> ...


If only business was that simple


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## spindem (Jul 9, 2009)

RedCloudMC said:


> Guys, please let's not start the price comparisons...this is detailing world not Go Compare!
> 
> The fact is detailing, valeting, washing are all services and you cannot explain the difference between most goods and services by price alone.
> 
> ...


Of course it is about price when you are comparing levels of service. What's the big hang up on price? Or is Shhhhhhhh you are not allowed to tell people I charge £400 to clean your car?


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

dennis said:


> simples, to pay attetention to detail is a detail
> don,t pay attention to detail is a valet.
> arguments on a public forum does you or the forum no favours fact.


i think you should look at that post again for what you have called your buissness


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## caddyman (Dec 2, 2008)

what's the difference between a cook and a chef? They both do the same job to a high standard just one might be slightly better at it than the other!!

I think it's one of them things we'll never grasp

Yes some valeters do a quick fix job, some go that extra mile and some go further
Detailers like to keep to a high standard and maybe some don't do quite a good a job as others
It's all to do with person doing the valet/detail and what they offer for the price

and more importantly for those running a valeting / detailing service it's about giving the customer what they want


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## RedCloudMC (Jul 19, 2008)

caddyman said:


> what's the difference between a cook and a chef? They both do the same job to a high standard just one might be slightly better at it than the other!!
> 
> I think it's one of them things we'll never grasp
> 
> ...


Agreed :thumb:


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

I reckon it's just about getting to the point where I think it's apt to quote my DW bossman here (who's said it me a few times ).

"It's only wax" 

Let's keep it chilled  And if we could refrain from bringing money into it, that would be great, as we had that debate the other week.


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Phew! Well done guys. My food is cooking, came back online to find the discussion has not over heated:thumb:

Some interesting posts and a very good read.


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## petemattw (Nov 3, 2008)

Valet is/was a thorough clean, which would meet the expectations of most vehicle owners, however in essence and name, a detail will take care of every detail! Typically a valet wouldn't clean door jambs, petrol flaps etc, that's beyond the realm of most peoples expectations. But every last detail will be considered for a proper detail. Therefore, how many people actually detail and how many are between a valet and a detail? I know that most of the time i am above a valet, but not completing a total 100% (i.e every detail) detail!


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## dw0510 (Oct 22, 2006)

RedCloudMC said:


> Spoken like a true valeter! :thumb:
> 
> JOKE!!!!!


Correct :wave:


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## williamsclio1 (Oct 5, 2009)

Thought I would ask the misses for an outside point of view (just to mix things up a bit )

David "Hun what would you say the difference between a valet and a detail is?"

Ell "valet is a once over on everything and I'd say a detail is the same with more of a detail" 

She added further "I'd think of it as valet is like washing you face with water and drying and detailing as washing your face using a range of products, including face mask, exfoliater, cleanser and toner etc"

the womans touch lol

IMO I believe it's how one prerceives the word and people in the know tend to use the word detail if they expect the full works (and I mean the full works) and people less so ie my mum would say valet.

David


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Nice one Dave:thumb:


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## ahaydock (Jan 4, 2007)

To me and to keep it simple, a Detail is a more thorough version of a Valet.

Thats not to say there's anything wrong with a Valet, but that is just how I perceive it :thumb:


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

^^ Totally agree mate:thumb:


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

thought this thread had been closed last time i looked.


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Bit of confusion that was all Chris:thumb:


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

KennyC said:


> Leather gaitors cleaned and conditioned, speedo etc taken out and polished when possible, carpets redyed (sp?) if nessesary, air vents cleaned with cotton bud/ detailing stick and a fabric guard applied where possible.


You don't mean speedo as dashboard; that would be a days work just to get it out on most cars.

As far as seats; NO WAY would I take an airbagged seat out. Even with the battery disconnected for an hour the explosives can still go off, even with a home made resistor or amp meter in place. Replacement average airbagged seat- £1k +VAT.

Wheels I will not also remove as it would add over £500+vat to my already high insurance. I just rely on brushes and can usually seal the backs of the wheels. I would hate to take a wheel off then hear of an accident related to it, plus health and safety have more rights than the police to procecute you, and even with the correct insurance in place after all the negative media and prosecution you will probably go bust anyway.

Good thread though..


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

I really dont see where any one got taking seats out or wheels off from (im actually ok about wheels off as quite a few clients with older vehicles spec it in there details and we managed to get proper cover for it (needed due to offering wheel refurb whilst with us for a detail) i would not take seats out, unless again it was speced maybe on a car that needed leather restore work and then we would use a specialist to remove them and do the work any way (we have some good leather retrimers we use) what i was stating is lift the seats like back seats in an ML or alike where they tip up and you get get all under and around them.

I think some people try to pick holes in things that are not even there


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

OT (and sorry). Just popped home for lunch between meetings having spent the morning in 2 workshops with all sorts of cars from bare chassis to 10 year old F1 cars, wheels off, no bodies etc.

I'm confused as to the logic behind an insurer refusing to cover you if you remove wheels during a detail and not imposing restrictions as regards seat removal (airbag issue mentioned earlier) or indeed underbonnet cleaning (all sorts of safety critical systems present on newer cars which don't react well to water). You buy public liability insurance in particular essentially to protect your business in the event of a mistake for which you can be proved legally liable so removal of wheels would and should present a broadly similar risk to cleaning other sensitive areas using various chemicals. 

Like I say, apologies for going OT.

As to the original question, detailing was the American term for cleaning your car. This didn't especially refer to the depth and amount of work done, it was just the term used generically to describe the process. It didn't exist to any tangible degree over here until maybe 5-6 years ago and was used to describe a perceived higher level of attention to detail which many valeters were to some extent doing already. To some degree, the 2 things are therefore pretty much the same but had this place been called "valeting world" then I doubt it would have had the same impact on the scene.

I'd never considered myself a valeter as that was always the word used to describe someone who did it F/T to pay their mortgage. I don't consider myself to be a detailer for the same reason but I do regard myself as being a hobbyist detailer - why? no idea!!


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

Cleaning a car is much like making love to a beautiful woman.
Sure, a quickie leaves you satisfied for a bit, but its no comparison to the grin that sticks to your face when you partake in a right proper servicing.


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## caddyman (Dec 2, 2008)

mwbpsx said:


> I would take my polo to a valeter and he would say, 'sorry bud but Im not sure how good I will get down the sides of the front seats cos its a very tight gap'. A detailer would see the same gap and explain that he would have to remove the seats to detail the interior:thumb:
> 
> just my thought


James this is post number 24 as to the raising of the issue of removal of seats!!

But seats need not be removed nowaday anyhow - plenty of gadgets on the market to over come this situation


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Ok i just read that reply from that guy, wed not remove seats unless it was the last resort and the clients request, and im still not to keen to do it.


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Shug said:


> Cleaning a car is much like making love to a beautiful woman.
> Sure, a quickie leaves you satisfied for a bit, but its no comparison to the grin that sticks to your face when you partake in a right proper servicing.


Like it Shug:thumb:


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Shug said:


> Cleaning a car is much like making love to a beautiful woman.
> Sure, a quickie leaves you satisfied for a bit, but its no comparison to the grin that sticks to your face when you partake in a right proper servicing.


Il use that terminology the next time a client one asks me "whats the difference between valeting and detailing" :lol:


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Shug said:


> Cleaning a car is much like making love to a beautiful woman.
> Sure, a quickie leaves you satisfied for a bit, but its no comparison to the grin that sticks to your face when you partake in a right proper servicing.


:lol: :lol: Right that's it - let's put it to bed now once and for all (quite apt I thought).

Debate over, it's sorted! :thumb:


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Viper said:


> :lol: :lol: Right that's it - let's put it to bed now once and for all (quite apt I thought).
> 
> Debate over, it's sorted! :thumb:


I'm impressed. Shug kept it clean as well:thumb:


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

Just a lowley weekend enthusiast but my take on it is this.

Valeting does a great job of getting a car nice and clean and in general most people I know would be happy with it, however a detail goes much futher addressing areas that the average car owner would not even consider need doing.

Eg, I asked a pro in a studio post how he got the grills in the front bumper of an A4 RS so amazingly clean, he responded that he had removed them to ensure the job was a good one.

Few times I've shelled out for a valet in the past (around £80) the car came back washed clean and shiny and on the whole very nice, however many little areas of the car were missed, only little corners and details like the gaps in the trim still with dust and debris or water stains on the paint and the corners of the windows missed or smeary. I also found that the trim was wiped with a generic dressing and looked a bit patchy, don't get me wrong, for £80 and the time it took its a fair job and as I said everyone I know would be happy but I am a bit picky and I was always a bit disapointed. I also found that the various finishes did'nt last all that long afterwards, but this was before I know that detailing existed and took it that extra mile.

So nothing wrong with it, but its to a price catering to the mass market whereas detailing makes sure that all those little "details" are gone over to ensure not tiny little section of the car is less than perfect, from ensuring there are zero smears, to using quality products catering to a really demanding customer base.

Obviously you'd pay more for a detail but its deserved as it goes that extra mile.

Obviously some valeters probably valet to a really high standard and probably are missing a trick on not actually charging the right fees and calling themselves a detailer.

Thats my take, the word is "detail" and I know some of the pros on here offer valeting along side detailing and you can see on their descriptions what the diffences are.


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## KennyC (Aug 11, 2008)

Mirror Finish said:


> You don't mean speedo as dashboard; that would be a days work just to get it out on most cars.


Yep. I said where possible because on some cars they're a nightmare to get out. A lot of cars just need the steering wheels and a few screws on the dash to be removed to get the speedo out, a lot of the plastic covers are swirl central and they annoy me


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

Planet Man said:


> I'm impressed. Shug kept it clean as well:thumb:


I struggled to be honest :lol:


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## ryanuk (Jun 22, 2007)

To be fair 90% of the work on this forum ate just Valets anyways but people call them detailes


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Shug said:


> I struggled to be honest :lol:


Good to see you are not easily led into temptation


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

ryanuk said:


> To be fair 90% of the work on this forum ate just Valets anyways but people call them detailes


90% of your work you mean  :lol:


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## ryanuk (Jun 22, 2007)

james b said:


> 90% of your work you mean  :lol:


No mate coz that's 99%


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

HA ha ha


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## Aeroandy (Sep 2, 2009)

Planet Man said:


> As title.
> 
> Detail Vs Valet
> 
> Detailer Vs Valeter


Where I am (USA) a detailer cleans cars and Valet is someone that parks cars.


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## ahaydock (Jan 4, 2007)

Aeroandy said:


> Where I am (USA) a detailer cleans cars and Valet is someone that parks cars.


Good point :thumb:


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## markcoznottz (Nov 13, 2005)

Words are just that words really. Just words. Detail v Valet. people still have differing ideas about it.To be sure, love him or hate him, we do owe a lot to Paul Dalton, he raised the profile of 'detailing' as it had become known, in the summer 2006, and probably made it acceptable to charge big dough for 'cleaning cars' . Certain amount of luck with the timing though, it coincided with the biggest consumer boom in history, people were falling over themselves to buy fast exotics, and detailing companies were shooting up everywhere. 

Shouldnt be forgotton though that he started out as a Zymol agent/applicator, a lot of the criticism this company recieved (some of it on here), was unfair, the quality of the products was well known in porsche circles since the early 90's and must have been the first use of clay bars in this country outside of some bodyshops.. Zymol advertised almost non stop in porsche magazines from that time and still does now. What zymol doesnt include and still doesnt even now(they dont manufacture compound/abrasives), is 'paint correction'. In my opinion, that is what separates 'detailing' as its now known, from 'valeting'. 

The pursuit of a near as perfect prepared paint surface. That is detailing in the uk, followed by whichever products the customer chooses. 

So whats made detailing so accessible and popular?. The internet for sure, more products, more info, dirt cheap rotary polishers, these used to be over £150, now available for £40, far superior compounds, the latest products leave hardly a trace of dust, anyone who used farecla in the 90's will know how much mess it made, it would take longer to clean up than actaully to do the job....


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## billybob9351 (Feb 14, 2008)

detailing is exactly what it says on the tin, it's picking up on the details of it and like most people I also think it is a progression of a valet


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

When i speak to a client about a job i tend to refer to it as valeting but drop into the conversation that detailing is a more refined style of valeting.

When one of my customers saw me snowfoaming and cleaning the door shuts they came out and asked me why i did it and i proceeded to explain detailing and it went down well but it is just a word to me.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

As iv already said, label it what ever you want, at the end of the day your cleaning a car to some level or another.

We still use the word "valeting" on some promotional stuff as people know what it means to valet a car, not many know what "detailing" a car means, and i hate people asking all the time then saying oh i thought it was body kits and stuff, or scuff repair, or the best one some old lady though i "painted the lines on the fancy cars" lol, valeting gives people and idea of what we do at first glance, even tho im not interested in picking up any of the normal "valet" type jobs (ie clean the school run bus to get the jelly babies out the seat rails and crisps out the CD player, No Ta!

But at the end of the day, we do clean cars, all be it a bit of a exacting standard.


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## TANNERS (Jul 15, 2007)

the way i explain it to people is

A VALETER makes a the car look clean (for an event,show,or maintinance)

A DETAILER makes a car clean (like new,concorse,show winner)

they seem to grasp what i mean


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## Tybo (Jun 25, 2006)

TANNERS said:


> the way i explain it to people is
> 
> A VALETER makes a the car look clean (for an event,show,or maintinance)
> 
> ...


Except on here of course....where everything from dusting the dash to vaccing out the boot, seems to classed as a detail.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

TANNERS said:


> the way i explain it to people is
> 
> A VALETER makes a the car look clean (for an event,show,or maintinance)
> 
> ...


you have just summarised it as both "cleaning a car" what is exactly what it is at the end of the day, its just the depth and levels you go to.


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## SDP (Oct 17, 2006)

I think James is on the money with this - at the end of the day we are all 'cleaning cars'.

(I assume that within cleaning cars we include some restoration and protection).

Until it is accurately defined as to what processes are carried out, what products are used, what standards are achieved and how many hours the protaganist has under their belt to qualify a job as a detail or a valet...

...then a valet is a detail and a detail is a valet.


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## Macer (Mar 23, 2008)

Well as a complete novice I have always seen a detailer as the bloke that corrects paint work and makes the car extrimly shiny, a valeter is the bloke that cleans your car and hoovers the inside.


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## m33porsche (Jun 10, 2007)

My thoughts are that as per previous posts a detail is simply a "deeper" clean. I think it would be unlikely that a valet would include de-greasing and brushing out the door shuts, or washing/brushing down and dressing the wheel arch liners for example.

However, I think this is only part of the difference. A detail really distances itself from a valet in terms of correction and protection. Machine polishing to return paint to factory condition is not part of the valet routine, the valet returns it to the best of it current condition, detailing will improve the current condition.

Same is the case for protection, I think its less likely that a valet would be treating external plastics with uv resistant chemicals to prevent fading/drying, or treating convertible roofs to ensure they are both clean and water repellant.

In summary I'd say detailing is about a deeper clean, improving the standand of finish AND protection of the finish. A valet is in the main only a lesser version of the first of these three.

Has to be said though, what does it matter. Jo Public hasn't got a scubby about detailing so stick with valet and break 'em in gently......:thumb:


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## SDP (Oct 17, 2006)

m33porsche said:


> My thoughts are that as per previous posts a detail is simply a "deeper" clean. I think it would be unlikely that a valet would include de-greasing and brushing out the door shuts, or washing/brushing down and dressing the wheel arch liners for example.
> 
> However, I think this is only part of the difference. A detail really distances itself from a valet in terms of correction and protection. Machine polishing to return paint to factory condition is not part of the valet routine, the valet returns it to the best of it current condition, detailing will improve the current condition.
> 
> ...


But there are no ********** lines drawn there imo. Unless you are saying (for instance) that applying protection = detail and not applying it = valet which is absurd again imo.

Quite a few of the processes that you say that are not included in a valet are in my experience. Processes such as door shut cleans, wheel arch cleans are pretty much mandatory across the valeting industry for instance.

And using your example of returning a cars paintwork to factory finish (let's assume that this is perfection for the sake of argument) then that implies that every 'light correction', 'what comes out comes out correction', 'quick gloss-over' service or indeed a 'protection detail' is in fact not a detail. Which would mean that most 'details' shown here on the forum aren't!


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

^^ i have to agree, there is not line to draw, the thing between is (usually there are exceptions both sides) a detailer will do a more thorough job of each stage than a valeter, ie valeter may just spray the door shuts with TFR and jet wash out (same with arches) then a detail will brush clean and get them bang on, most valeters will have a machine polisher, they will more than likely give you car a once over, say for instance a faded red car, but may not go in to the detail of removing swirls and RDS.

The main difference is the depth of each proses, the fundamentals are the same, its cleaning a car, dont hype it in to some thing its not. use the term needed to best describe the quality and level of service you offer, Hand car wash, Valet, Detail.


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## dooka (Aug 1, 2006)

I explain it to people like this..

You have your £5 car scratch and Valet, well the jump to a detail is twice or more than a £5 job to a valet..


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

There is a "Valet Centre" i went to years ago (Before this site was here) and he charges £6 wash and wax and i **** you not this bloke gets 10-15 cars per hour 10 hours per day 7 days per week.

I went past the other day and he is still there but charges £15 exterior/interior valet.

My mate went there 2 weeks ago and had the £15 wash and couldn't praise the bloke enough and gave me advice to do the same.

I explained to him that although the car may look clean, there is no protection bla bla bla and when i fired up the halogens he nearly pissed himself in shock at the terrible state of the car.

I have since fully corrected and protected the car and my noob mate now calls it detailing as opposed to valeting so i suppose it's what people are shown as regards to a true "Detail"


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## SDP (Oct 17, 2006)

I think that further back in the thread someone was calling for a lock-down but imo it is a really interesting and commercially (for us) important topic.

As the owner of a valeting/detailing company we keep a pretty close eye on the market place (as no doubt the other pro's do) and every month we spend some time looking at what we consider to be the most influential/interesting websites in this business sector. 

We tend to look at around 30 on a regular basis.

On top of that we do a random trawl for sites that we have never looked at before.

And obviously we spend some time on a number of forums.

But most of all we listen to our customers.

***

In this way we pretty much get a decent fix on 'what's occuring' out there (Ness - we miss you already!).

***

Our current take (just our opinion and we don't present it as fact) is as follows.

The terms 'detail' and 'valet' are 100% interchangeable - no one has convinced us otherwise and I cannot think of a way to differentiate either. If I could I would because commercially we could easily use a properly differentaited service to our advantage. 

The term 'detail' is almost 100% lost on anyone who does not frequent the obvious forums.

In the 5 years I have been involved in this business I have not seen one iota of evidence to suggest that the term 'detail' even features on the radar of non-forum dwellers let alone gaining significant usage.

The guys and girls that use the term 'valet' to have their car cleaned represent a ridicuously large share of the market, so much so that we think it is counter-productive to pitch our business model only to the market that excusively uses the term 'detail'. Hence we do not spend a significant amount of time posting write-ups etc on forums and definitely would not use this as our only menas of accessing customers..

(As an aside to the above we have a large and very wealthy customer base of which 2 use the term 'detail', the majority 'valet' and a fair number that use the term 'car cleaning' - and some of the latter own and drive some very sexy kit).

The term 'detail' is used in an attempt to differentiate one business from another in terms of quality - that's a fine and valid approach but it really does fall over when you cannot pin down the difference.

(We also take note that there are many websites out there that in our opinion do not have a clue about the technical side of the business who call themselves detailers. Take a look at some of the ludicrous techno-babble on some sites, ditto the manifest lack of evidence of actually having worked extensively on a large number of cars and you'll see what I mean. This is in no way a knock at new ventures - we all had to start somewhere but there are some established guys out there who really ought to know better).

On most car-orientated forums the term 'detailer' is understood by most of the membership as being someone who can valet(!) a car to a higher standard than a 'valeter'. This is of course a nonsense and I can think of many guys who market themselves as valeters (there are a number of them in the Pro section too btw) who will give anyone who calls themselves a detailer a run for their money. Nonetheless the first sentence holds for us.

That is roughly our impression of the current state of play.

***

As to where that leaves us:

We use both terms on our website. The term 'valet' to describe our mainstream valet range of servives - and the term 'detail' is used to describe our 'pinnacle' services. And we do that simply because we are greedy - whilst we happily sell our 'details' to customers who have never heard of the term (as long as the detail is appropriate to their vehicle) we also want anyones business who appears on our radar as a customer if they are someone who who calls a valet a detail!

Simple as that really. As once we have their Aston on board we get the Range Rover, the wifes car and the kids cars too!

So that's really us being honest there.

***

What we don't do though is to pitch details as better than our valets per se. Strangely it is possible to find websites that diss valeting and big-up detailing (christ my kids would be proud of me using those terms!) and then promptly offer both services to their customers! 
And if the owners of those sites are confused then god help the customers.

We see this as a weak marketing tool and just prefer to differentiate ourselves from our competitors on the quality of our customer service delivery etc.

Interestingly the broader aspects of running a good valeting/detailing business never really get aired - not sure why.

What does get aired is that 'best' appears to be perceived as he who gets the car shiniest - and maybe that is the case in terms of technical ability.

But from a business perspective the scope of measurements widens significantly - and this tends to strip out businesses that 'talk a good game'.

I just mention this as it rankles slightly when I see some members almost taking the *iss out of valeters at the expense of detailers when I can think of a few great businesses in either camp and some very poor ones in both as well.

As already said - this is an interesting debate!


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## SDP (Oct 17, 2006)

Showshine said:


> There is a "Valet Centre" i went to years ago (Before this site was here) and he charges £6 wash and wax and i **** you not this bloke gets 10-15 cars per hour 10 hours per day 7 days per week.
> 
> I went past the other day and he is still there but charges £15 exterior/interior valet.
> 
> ...


Not sure what you are saying there then re valet vs detail?


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

@ SDP, it all depends what kind of market your looking at, the guys who know cars do know what detailing is trust me, valeting is a hand tool to use to let people know what you do quickly and easily, but it is also a very devalued term in regards to the car park trolly washers calling them selfs a "valeting" service, we are a detailing company, nothing less, but i use the term "valeting" on some indirect (ie not aimed at the car fanatic) advertisements and it helps them determine what we do quickly and easily with word recognition, we basiclaly clean cars, its our name, logo, the van and the way our adds look that lets then know we are on a bit of another level to the hand car wash boys  

Also if your looking at 30 sites a month, id be inclined to say your waisting your time, its pointless, it all comes down to location and the kind of market around you, not the kind of market around others.


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## SDP (Oct 17, 2006)

james b said:


> @ SDP, it all depends what kind of market your looking at, the guys who know cars do know what detailing is trust me, valeting is a hand tool to use to let people know what you do quickly and easily, but it is also a very devalued term in regards to the car park trolly washers calling them selfs a "valeting" service, we are a detailing company, nothing less, but i use the term "valeting" on some indirect (ie not aimed at the car fanatic) advertisements and it helps them determine what we do quickly and easily with word recognition, we basiclaly clean cars, its our name, logo, the van and the way our adds look that lets then know we are on a bit of another level to the hand car wash boys
> 
> Also if your looking at 30 sites a month, id be inclined to say your waisting your time, its pointless, it all comes down to location and the kind of market around you, not the kind of market around others.


Para 1: I get what you are saying there James but I still haven't heard much of the mention of the term detailing apart from anyone (customers) who frequent forums of a car nature. That's just my experience and why I just said it was my opinion not fact.

I still think that my original assertion stands ie a velet is a detail and vice-versa. And until someone can really differentiate the two I am not sure how they can't be one and the same.

I know you are a decent outfit so can understand why you do not want to be swallowed up in the mire as it were. We are the same here. We just use other ways to differentiate our business (no doubt you do too) but we specifically don't use the term detailing etc to differentiate. That's all I am saying there.

Para 2: We use 30 sites nationally as that way we can get a fix on what we consider the best outfits are doing in terms of how they position themselves, what they are offering and what they are up to. I would struggle to find 30 decent sites (assuming they even have websites) locally tbh - that's just my opinion and just because I don't rate some outfits doesn't make them bad. IMO those sites that we do look at have a national relevance as far as we are concerned as they lie at what we feel is the cutting edge of the business sector. So we still think that the likes of Finer Details, Off Your Marks, Carnnosseur (prob' spelt that wrong - sorry), PB and of course your set-up etc etc are relevant to us.

I think that even though we do not major on paint correction (far from really as once I get beyond 2-3 hours on a rotary I am bored witless tbh) all of those companies will in the main be serving similar customers to us and will be using similar products to us etc etc and we like to stay on the pace and I can't do that if we don't take a peek!

***

So back to the start I am pretty sure we haven't got anywhere near being able to seperate a valet from a detail.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Maybe your not dealing with the type of clients we are, trust me alot of ours know what they want and it is "a detail" 

Id definitely not say the standard of a valet is the same as a detail no any where near, but i do agree detailing and valeting are fundamentally the same thing, the differences are there, but not enough to pin point one thing as a determining factor to say thats where a valet ends and a detail begins.

No offence but all the guys you mention there are would make no difference to you, polished bliss are in a wealthy oil rich area and main business is product sales and the detailing side of the business IMO is as much a marketing tool from products as it is a source of income, Matt off your marks undoubtably one of the top detailers in the UK, Iain and glyn are up in manchester, very well situated to cover a good area and with some wealth and busy areas around them, im set up just above london, i can get any where in the city with in an hour and a half and to birmingham in 2hours so again a good location to cover a big area with lots of money and only have the types and amounts of clients to offer such services due to doing this for so long.

What others are doing has no impact on what we do as a company, all that maters to me is my customers & potential customers, spend that time on your own business and some customer care it would pay off alot better IMO, That and the fact i feel there is no one like us any where in our area  you have to be different.


Im all button tapped out for one day, business, politics, and religion wow what a busy day, im off to drink beer play Xbox and sware at little kids that kill me on Call of Duty ..............


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## Bryman (Oct 1, 2006)

The Doctor said:


> Detailing-American
> Valeting-British


imo i think this is pretty close to summing it up.....

i also think that just like the name "detailer" that the "cleaning" is in more detail rather that a "valet" that a carwash can do (imo)

perhaps a reword...... detailer is the "extreme" carwash lol

(if anything i have said has been mentioned before, then sorry as i havent read everyone`s opinion yet...... also if my comment offends anyone (valeters for example) then i`m sorry, its just my opinion)


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## SDP (Oct 17, 2006)

james b said:


> Maybe your not dealing with the type of clients we are, trust me alot of ours know what they want and it is "a detail"
> 
> Id definitely not say the standard of a valet is the same as a detail no any where near, but i do agree detailing and valeting are fundamentally the same thing, the differences are there, but not enough to pin point one thing as a determining factor to say thats where a valet ends and a detail begins.
> 
> ...


I best not totally derail the thread by responding to all of that!

Despite what you are saying there I still think that unless we can properly define what a valet is/is not and ditto a detail and at what point they go they go their own 2 ways then really they are just one and the same.


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## m33porsche (Jun 10, 2007)

Really informative thread this - I agree a lockdown would seem wrong as the debate draws out new and interesting things.

In a previous post I mentioned that valeters would be unlikely to use a machine polisher to correct - seems the game has moved on and this is no longer a differentiator.

Perhaps there is no ********** answer, ie this is shades of grey and the accumulation of a number of detailed tasked notch a process from being a simple valet to a detail.

All I know is that as a customer I want a detail, I want to know that the paint is clayed, polished and sealed by a professional, and that all those bits that are difficult to get to have been thoroughly cleaned.

What exemplifies this for me is cleaning wheels means so much more, ie wheels yes, inner rim of course, hub naturally, and it may need painting, don't forget the calipers and it goes without saying that the arch liners will be brushed down and protected. Just to finish it's also nice to clean down the shocks and springs to return to as new looks. This is depth, it's what I as a customer want when paying a premium and what I would not expect a valeter to do....:thumb:


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

SDP said:


> I best not totally derail the thread by responding to all of that!


All of that  go back and look at the size of your last replies :tumbleweed:

You have not really added anything that has not already been said to the thread, iv said from the start it is fundamentally the same, its car cleaning in some shape or form, im just pointing out your wasting time looking at what others are doing unless they are on your door step its irrelevant.

You are the one bringing this other discussion in to this one, i meerly replied to you


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## SDP (Oct 17, 2006)

james b said:


> All of that  go back and look at the size of your last replies :tumbleweed:
> 
> You have not really added anything that has not already been said to the thread, iv said from the start it is fundamentally the same, its car cleaning in some shape or form, im just pointing out your wasting time looking at what others are doing unless they are on your door step its irrelevant.
> 
> You are the one bringing this other discussion in to this one, i meerly replied to you


Ummmm James - that wasn't some sort of personal slight to you - it was just a simple comment.

All I was doing by mentioning what we do is to give an idea how we form our opinions as opposed to just typing something without some background info' - I'd say that was relevant. On the other hand maybe I misjudged things!

Where you are saying 'you are wasting your time.....etc' is fine by me. You're entitled to an opinion albeit I have a 180 degree opposite view to you.

By saying that I didn't want to derail the thread all I mean't was that I didn't think it would be right to start debating the merits (or not) of competitive analysis within it.


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## Tybo (Jun 25, 2006)

This has turned into an interesting thread (for once)


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

SDP said:


> Ummmm James - that wasn't some sort of personal slight to you - it was just a simple comment.
> 
> All I was doing by mentioning what we do is to give an idea how we form our opinions as opposed to just typing something without some background info' - I'd say that was relevant. On the other hand maybe I misjudged things!
> 
> ...


alot of threads go away from there original direction (after all this one is never going to have a . reply in it) i personally really dont see how what other companies at opposite ends of the country are doing is relevant to you, but if you feel its time well spent carry on.

My comment was not made to belittle what your doing just give you a bit of a realist opinion on it, you have to aim at the market around you.


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## Tybo (Jun 25, 2006)

james b said:


> alot of threads go away from there original direction (after all this one is never going to have a . reply in it) i personally really dont see how what other companies at opposite ends of the country are doing is relevant to you, but if you feel its time well spent carry on.
> 
> My comment was not made to belittle what your doing just give you a bit of a realist opinion on it, you have to aim at the market around you.


Do you think that if you kept all your services the same, but called them valets...that it would have any effect on your business?


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## SDP (Oct 17, 2006)

james b said:


> alot of threads go away from there original direction (after all this one is never going to have a . reply in it) i personally really dont see how what other companies at opposite ends of the country are doing is relevant to you, but if you feel its time well spent carry on.
> 
> My comment was not made to belittle what your doing just give you a bit of a realist opinion on it, you have to aim at the market around you.


OK James


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## m33porsche (Jun 10, 2007)

james b said:


> My comment was not made to belittle what your doing just give you a bit of a realist opinion on it, you have to aim at the market around you.


:lol::lol::lol: two sides to every story james....

What I've learnt so far is that valet and detail are the same, it's only about the degree to which you go. I didn't know that before this thread started.

The other thing I've learnt is that we are all passionate about our hobby/trade. In todays couldn't give a fig world that is a very good and reassuring thing..:thumb:


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## DPN (Jan 7, 2006)

Tybo said:


> Do you think that if you kept all your services the same, but called them valets...that it would have any effect on your business?


It hasn't for me.


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