# Zymöl Royale



## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

I've really gone & done it now!!!

After owning Zymöl Vintage for a couple of months & chatting with Zymöl themselves I decided to take them up on the offer of upgrading to Royale.










Perhaps a crazy knee jerk purchase, but what the hell, you only live once!

My lovely new purchase should arrive shortly, can't wait to give it a whirl :thumb:


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Legend :lol:

I don't think anyone else on here has it??


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

I think a few have :thumb:

Perhaps not my wisest of purchases, but sod it!


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## SBerlyn (Nov 9, 2008)

Bloody hell! Do you get a hefty discount?

S


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Is your name "Shake Norton Ski":lol:


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## robj20 (Jan 20, 2009)

Wax enough cars and it will be worth it in the long run, how quick do they refill them.


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## GlynRS2 (Jan 21, 2006)

Congratulations!

I look forward to seeing the results.
With all that wax I expect to see it on everything you own with a painted surface - car, bike, lawn mower, fridge etc.


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

RosswithaOCD said:


> Is your name "Shake Norton Ski":lol:


Funnily enough I'm in Dubai at present...lol Business not pleaure more's the pity...


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Get some of that on the works van:lol:


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

robj20 said:


> Wax enough cars and it will be worth it in the long run, how quick do they refill them.


I asked this question, Zymöl told me to decant enough to last 6-8 weeks when returning due to the turn around timescales.


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

holy crap dude! hahaha

what was the offer may i ask? did they go to you?

i cant say ive even contemplated upgrading, and dont think i ever would


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## noop (Jan 5, 2007)

nortonski said:


> I asked this question, Zymöl told me to decant enough to last 6-8 weeks when returning due to the turn around timescales.


...want to decant me a small sample


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

So has the Vintage gone now then? Did you take that part of the deal?


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

noop said:


> ...want to decant me a small sample


Same here I am prepared to pay anything up to 5 quid:lol:


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

RussZS said:


> So has the Vintage gone now then? Did you take that part of the deal?


Still have the Vintage at the mo, well until the Royale arrives at least then it goes back :thumb:


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## beardboy (Feb 12, 2006)

IF you want to sell a small sample of Vintage - let me know


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

beardboy said:


> IF you want to sell a small sample of Vintage - let me know


Unfortunately I've read that owners are not officially able to sell more's the pity...they'll cut off the refills which I really cant afford to happen...lol


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## QuattroA3 (Jul 5, 2008)

Very jealous IF you want to test it on my car 
let me know


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

whats the 1st vehicle to get a layer of it then? :lol:

how much of the vintage did you use up? ive still got loooooads left 18 months in :lol:


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

What about giving it away?  if you have to return the Vintage....it would amost be rude not to.....they will just bin it anyway :wave:

Congrats on the Royal though!


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

ianFRST said:


> whats the 1st vehicle to get a layer of it then? :lol:
> 
> how much of the vintage did you use up? ive still got loooooads left 18 months in :lol:


Probably the Land Cruiser...afterall it's the wifes & the newest...also helps to smooth the way


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Did you go for blue in the second pot?


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## Sharpy (Mar 25, 2007)

nortonski said:


> Unfortunately I've read that owners are not officially able to sell more's the pity...they'll cut off the refills which I really cant afford to happen...lol


if its done behind closed doors who would know?


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## Eeloe (Aug 12, 2008)

Jesus, that's hard core now!

I'm finding it hard to knock together the £300 to buy the swissvax best of show kit!
But I will have it before the year is out!

Only way I'll get this zymöl is if I win the mid week lottery!


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## johnbuck (Jul 1, 2007)

After reading this thread I had to go check the price to se what all the fuss was about.

Nearly passed out!


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Surely you'd get Solaris if you'd won the lottery?

£30,000...


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

sharpy24 said:


> if its done behind closed doors who would know?


True...


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

RussZS said:


> Did you go for blue in the second pot?


Sure did, could've had White/White, White/Red, White/Blue, Red/Red, Blue/Blue or Red/Blue...

Thought that White's good for anything & Blue as both of our cars are darker...


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

RussZS said:


> Surely you'd get Solaris if you'd won the lottery?
> 
> £30,000...


Not sure I would, you've gotta mix it yourself with the Golden Spoon they provide & from what I've read has less 'nuba...

At that price I'd want a hottie to come & apply for me also :thumb:


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## k10lbe (Jun 10, 2009)

ouch !

hope its worth the pennies lol


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

its all in the prep 



only messing - fair play bud:thumb::thumb:


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## Eeloe (Aug 12, 2008)

RussZS said:


> Surely you'd get Solaris if you'd won the lottery?
> 
> £30,000...


If I win the lottery Russ, I'll buy YOU a tub of solaris!


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Eeloe said:


> If I win the lottery Russ, I'll buy YOU a tub of solaris!


Quoted for the lucky day :thumb::lol:


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

RussZS said:


> Quoted for the lucky day :thumb::lol:


I am getting you a tub of Crystal Rock if I win and a complementy bottle of BTBM:lol:


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

RosswithaOCD said:


> I am getting you a tub of Crystal Rock if I win and a complementy bottle of BTBM:lol:


Awesome!! :lol:

Good luck to everyone who wants to buy me a premium wax


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Megs 16 would probaly look the same and last longer:lol:


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

RosswithaOCD said:


> Megs 16 would probaly look the same and last longer:lol:


No doubt costing FAR less also...lol I'll take my chances :lol:


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## badly_dubbed (Dec 11, 2008)

cracking purchase. 

one id love to own just for the fact of owning an exclusive wax.

one day ill have that kind of cash even if its just vintage....:lol:


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

badly_dubbed said:


> cracking purchase.
> 
> one id love to own just for the fact of owning an exclusive wax.
> 
> one day ill have that kind of cash even if its just vintage....:lol:


Don't get me wrong, Vintage is an awsome wax & well worth the price IMO bearing in mind the refills!

I just had the opportunity that made sense to make the upgrade, let's hope it's as good as I hope :thumb:


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

You mad bugger

Well enjoy! What car(s) will it be gracing?


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

Brazo said:


> You mad bugger
> 
> Well enjoy! What car(s) will it be gracing?


Perhaps, lol more like probably, it'll be on a shiny new Land Cruiser & an R56 Mini Cooper (both of which have the DW stickers on) :thumb:


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## ads2k (Jul 12, 2006)

Congratulations in the change matey :thumb:

Very jealous indeed


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## IanG (Nov 21, 2007)

Now that's a nice upgrade :thumb:


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## Eeloe (Aug 12, 2008)

RussZS said:


> Quoted for the lucky day :thumb::lol:


You have my word! Haha


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## dazzlers82 (May 8, 2007)

congratulations cant wait to see the results:thumb:


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## -Ally- (Mar 6, 2009)

how much did that cost mate ?


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

AllyArctic300 said:


> how much did that cost mate ?


Well the list is £7k, I got a slightly better deal but I'm afraid my lips are sealed


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## badly_dubbed (Dec 11, 2008)

oh not much, :lol:

Royale will only set you back around 7 thousand quid


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

nortonski said:


> Well the list is £7k, I got a slightly better deal but I'm afraid my lips are sealed


£6,995?


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

badly_dubbed said:


> oh not much, :lol:
> 
> Royale will only set you back around 7 thousand quid


i'll take two please - could nearly get my RS for that amount when the time comes :doublesho


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## wedgie (Apr 5, 2008)

Cant wait to see the results a £7k wax gives over us lesser mortals wax'es :doublesho:doublesho:doublesho


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## badly_dubbed (Dec 11, 2008)

fiestadetailer said:


> i'll take two please - could nearly get my RS for that amount when the time comes :doublesho


id be happy with a sample lol

enough for a good 5 layers or so :lol:


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

badly_dubbed said:


> id be happy with a sample lol
> 
> enough for a good 5 layers or so :lol:


don't forget to apply it thinly Davy - and not on your toast in the mornings :lol:


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## badly_dubbed (Dec 11, 2008)

yum!

infact no...too precious to waste on toast lol


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## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

Nice one mate. I know you were thinking about it. Try and get a wee comparison of Vintage versus Royale if you can. :thumb:


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## byrnes (Jul 15, 2008)

:thumb: a very nice purchase there! Wax everything in sight with it! Table tops, glass, cooker splash backs, taps, cutlery, hoover, computer, tv, carpet, light bulbs, pictures, doors, etc etc. you get the idea. Get your moneys worth! Maybe even try it out at lube. And not the kind of lube for claying *nudge, nudge, wink, wink* :lol: :lol:


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Congrats -on the upgrade


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## chunkytfg (Feb 1, 2009)

This might sound stupid but would there be anything to stop you decanting the contents of your vintage jar into a seperate container before sending it back to them?


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## atomicfan (Jan 21, 2008)

Vey nice upgrade. I tested royale vs vintage and found royale lasts longer, but vintage has the better beading.

I would like to get some of the blue royale so if you want to swap against vintage let me know


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

chunkytfg said:


> This might sound stupid but would there be anything to stop you decanting the contents of your vintage jar into a seperate container before sending it back to them?


Thats what i was thinking........ If they didnt say you cant.........you can!

BTW great buy, If you want to pop around mine ill machine correct your cars for a sample..... :thumb:

Cheers

PaulN


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## Doc (Feb 2, 2008)

Do you charge for detailing or is this just a decadence?


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## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

Doc said:


> Do you charge for detailing or is this just a decadence?


Just a hobbie for this man. Well, if he's in Dubai for work he is either Paul Dalton or he isn't a detailer. :lol:


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

amiller said:


> Just a hobbie for this man. Well, if he's in Dubai for work he is either Paul Dalton or he isn't a detailer. :lol:


Paul Dalton buying Royale??? :lol:


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## Doc (Feb 2, 2008)

Just trying to fathom the decision, some people spend £5k + on a watch presumingly knowing it will fetch more if they decide to sell. They use it, store it etc and are happy knowing they have one.
Can you sell on Royale?


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

Just a hobby for me, I also like my watches...lol

I'm looking more at the long term personal investment, assuming the big Z hang around long enough... :lol:

As for selling on, I'm not really sure, it would have to be a transfer agreed by Zymöl to ensure the refills are honoured, something I could ask at some point.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

you can leave Vintage & Royal (including refill rights i believe) to someone in ur will....


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Glad to see you have eventually taken the plunge.

But most of all enjoy your purchase. :thumb:
Gordon.


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

Bero said:


> you can leave Vintage & Royal (including refill rights i believe) to someone in ur will....


You can certainly bequeth it, not sure about sell it though...


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Maddness!!!!

More money then sense, Swissvax BOS is proberbly the best premium wax.

What a waste of money.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

wedgie said:


> Cant wait to see the results a £7k wax gives over us lesser mortals wax'es :doublesho:doublesho:doublesho


It's all in the prep, I can make Pledge look good if given 3 days to machine polish a car, the guy must be mad.

I machine polish for a living and would not spend £7k on a wax.


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## shabba (Sep 28, 2008)

Mirror Finish said:


> It's all in the prep, I can make Pledge look good if given 3 days to machine polish a car, the guy must be mad.


+1 :thumb:

I'd rather spend the money elsewhere...


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## wfedwar (Dec 21, 2008)

People spend hundreds of millions on homes, millions on boats, hundreds of thousands on watches. Why not 7k on a wax? He may be crazy...or he may just have more money than you...


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

wfedwar said:


> People spend hundreds of millions on homes, millions on boats, hundreds of thousands on watches. Why not 7k on a wax? He may be crazy...or he may just have more money than you...


He proberbly does have more money than me, but I can machine polish a car and even with no wax can make it look a million dollars.

I can certainly think of better things to spend 7K on.

But he will be dissapointed when his wax delivers no better performance than a tin of Collies 476!!!!!

10 years detailing and BOS is the best wax in my opinion!!!!!


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## A20 LEE (Feb 20, 2007)

Enjoy your wax, if i could afford it i'd have it too!


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

Mirror Finish said:


> He proberbly does have more money than me, but I can machine polish a car and even with no wax can make it look a million dollars.
> 
> I can certainly think of better things to spend 7K on.
> 
> ...


Your a barrel of laughs.......

Im not saying i would buy it given the chance, but it must be a lovely feeling you are in a very select few.

I hope it take pride of place in the Lounge though..

Cheers

PaulN


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## catch the pigeo (May 17, 2008)

Enjoy your new wax and ignore Victor Meldrew and co:wave:


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## Detail My Ride (Apr 19, 2006)

Out of interest, how many of the people here that are in the 'Why is he wasting £7k on a wax' boat, have actually used Royale?


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## five£wash (Oct 12, 2008)

Gaz W said:


> Out of interest, how many of the people here that are in the 'Why is he wasting £7k on a wax' boat, have actually used Royale?


exactly - if someone can afford to spend that kinda money on a wax and lets get this into prespective this is probably the enzo/veyron of the wax world i hardly think hes going to lose any sleep over it.

to the OP what car will you be putting it on?


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

five£wash said:


> exactly - if someone can afford to spend that kinda money on a wax and lets get this into prespective this is probably the enzo/veyron of the wax world i hardly think hes going to lose any sleep over it.
> 
> to the OP what car will you be putting it on?


Ford Ka......


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

Mirror Finish said:


> He proberbly does have more money than me, but I can machine polish a car and even with no wax can make it look a million dollars.
> 
> I can certainly think of better things to spend 7K on.
> 
> ...


Each to their own Mirror Finish...if you choose to Machine Polish a vehicle to within a micron of its clear coat/paint then good luck to you.

I on the other hand prefer a less aggressive approach, & whilst I appreciate that much of the end result is in the prep this doesn't mean that you need to shorten the life of your paintwork by constantly eating away at every little blemish & mark with a rotary/da.

In all honesty I'm over the moon with my purchase & as has already been mentioned on here I'll lose no sleep over any negative comments. I posted this on a forum so I'll take the rough with the smooth... Ultimatey, I had the cash, the purchase made sense to me so I made the choice, one that I might add I am very happy with.

As for BOS, I like it & even owned a tub, although, IMO it's not the best in terms of durability & finish & is somewhat overated & evangelised on here but each to their own... (Flame suit donned...lol)

I take it you wont be wanting a sample then...:lol:


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

five£wash said:


> exactly - if someone can afford to spend that kinda money on a wax and lets get this into prespective this is probably the enzo/veyron of the wax world i hardly think hes going to lose any sleep over it.
> 
> to the OP what car will you be putting it on?


It'll be mainly on an R56 Mini Cooper in metallic blue, a brand spanking new Land Cruiser in Mica Grey & no less than 3 limo's...(my sister owns a small limo outfit)

Sure they're not glamorous sports cars, but what the heck who knows what the future holds... :thumb:


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

nortonski said:


> Each to their own Mirror Finish...if you choose to Machine Polish a vehicle to within a micron of its clear coat/paint then good luck to you.
> 
> I on the other hand prefer a less aggressive approach, & whilst I appreciate that much of the end result is in the prep this doesn't mean that you need to shorten the life of your paintwork by constantly eating away at every little blemish & mark with a rotary/da.
> 
> ...


Exactly its your money spend it as you will, much better then wasting it on coke like some people would. Personally I would never spend that amount on wax but thats my choice, why does anyone think they have the right to tell you that you have wasted your money. Fair do's if you came along and asked if it was worth buying but you haven't.


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

Mirror Finish said:


> Maddness!!!!
> 
> More money then sense, Swissvax BOS is proberbly the best premium wax.
> 
> What a waste of money.


But its not your money is it so what does it matter?


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## TeZ (Oct 28, 2007)

Nice one, for buying it.

If I had a 7K wax - I would defiantly rub it in my scrotum. **dreams**


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

gt5500 said:


> Exactly its your money spend it as you will, much better then wasting it on coke like some people would. Personally I would never spend that amount on wax but thats my choice, why does anyone think they have the right to tell you that you have wasted your money. Fair do's if you came along and asked if it was worth buying but you haven't.


Indeed, well apart from my father..."ever heard of a rainy day my boy!"...it seems to have been raining an awfull lot lately...lol

Thanks for the comment :thumb:


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## stargazer (Aug 9, 2006)

You didn't by any chance miss your medication before your purchase did you?.....by the way I'm the one on the left.


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## five£wash (Oct 12, 2008)

nortonski said:


> It'll be mainly on an R56 Mini Cooper in metallic blue, a brand spanking new Land Cruiser in Mica Grey & no less than 3 limo's...(my sister owns a small limo outfit)
> 
> Sure they're not glamorous sports cars, but what the heck who knows what the future holds... :thumb:


good on ya - would be boring if you said it was going on a Zonda, lol


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## ksm1985 (Dec 27, 2008)

bero said:


> you can leave vintage & royal (including refill rights i believe) to someone in ur will....


lol !!


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

What an awesome purchase, never mind negative comments because your the luckey one to have the wax.....i really am jealous ! lol


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

On the subject of ‘can you sell it on?’

I found out the following from Zym0l about 12 months ago, when someone was selling Vintage, in it's container, with documentaion on eBay, claiming that it came with free lifetime refills. I spoke to Zym0l and they explained that the refill policy was not transferable.

So that sold Vintage in its container with documentation, does not come with lifetime refills. What the new owner has to do, if they want free refills, is apply to Zym0l. That renewal for free refills, will then cost the new owner about 90% of the original cost of Vintage. Whether this exact procedure applies to Royale, I can’t confirm.


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Car Key said:


> On the subject of 'can you sell it on?'
> 
> I found out the following from Zym0l about 12 months ago, when someone was selling Vintage, in it's container, with documentaion on eBay, claiming that it came with free lifetime refills. I spoke to Zym0l and they explained that the refill policy was not transferable.
> 
> So that sold Vintage in its container with documentation, does not come with lifetime refills. What the new owner has to do, if they want free refills, is apply to Zym0l. That renewal for free refills, will then cost the new owner about 90% of the original cost of Vintage. Whether this exact procedure applies to Royale, I can't confirm.


Which is fair enough, as the refill process is obviously open to abuse. Presumably they only allow a refill after a certain period of time in line with non commercial use too.


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

Car Key said:


> On the subject of 'can you sell it on?'
> 
> I found out the following from Zym0l about 12 months ago, when someone was selling Vintage, in it's container, with documentaion on eBay, claiming that it came with free lifetime refills. I spoke to Zym0l and they explained that the refill policy was not transferable.
> 
> So that sold Vintage in its container with documentation, does not come with lifetime refills. What the new owner has to do, if they want free refills, is apply to Zym0l. That renewal for free refills, will then cost the new owner about 90% of the original cost of Vintage. Whether this exact procedure applies to Royale, I can't confirm.


I'm not sure, certainly worth checking if you dont see it as a long term investment, for me it won't be sold on so doesn't affect me.

You can however, as detailed in earlier posts bequeth both Zymöl Vintage & Royale with the free refills which suits me assuming they're still trading :thumb:


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

What's the difference between private individual and commercial prices for Vintage and Royale?


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Car Key said:


> What's the difference between private individual and commercial prices for Vintage and Royale?


I don't think there is, but you can obviously buy the wax at trade if you become Z uthorised - can only guess what the margin is!

Presumably to get commercial refills, you need to be Z authorised...


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

RussZS said:


> I don't think there is, but you can obviously buy the wax at trade if you become Z uthorised - can only guess what the margin is!
> 
> Presumably to get commercial refills, you need to be Z authorised...


There are a couple of approved detailers on here believe, as for the cost to become approved, you hear numerous stories.

I have also heard (which may be urban myth) that if you become approved you're able to sell the products also, although in reality, that could be a different licence fee again.

Give them a call or drop them an e-mail & ask, they don't bite :thumb:


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## Doc (Feb 2, 2008)

If I had the disposable income I wouldn't actually give them the satisfaction, the more I read about this company the more they remind me of Murdock and Sky....


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

Doc said:


> If I had the disposable income I wouldn't actually give them the satisfaction, the more I read about this company the more they remind me of Murdock and Sky....


Your prerogative fella, aint free will great! :thumb:

EDIT: Just an addendum to my above comment, the fact is that what you're reading on this forum (or perhaps elsewhere) is now in effect "chinese whispers" & in my view no basis in which to make decisions upon. Be it wax or anything in life...


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Doc said:


> If I had the disposable income I wouldn't actually give them the satisfaction, the more I read about this company the more they remind me of Murdock and Sky....


What don't you like though? They are a premium brand, and want to protect their brand identity and copyright, which they are entitled to do.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Congrats Lee! :thumb:

Enjoy! 

Alan W


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## Wez (Nov 18, 2008)

All i can say is ur mad :lol:i wish i had the money as i would buy it as well mate. congrats anyway mate happy waxing


Wez


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## Ducky (Mar 19, 2007)

Damn, I've heard that it's amazing to use....I'd buy some if I ever had the money (I would have to be rolling in it though) and wax everything I could with it!


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

Mirror Finish said:


> He proberbly does have more money than me, but I can machine polish a car and even with no wax can make it look a million dollars.
> 
> I can certainly think of better things to spend 7K on.
> 
> ...


and he cant machine polish a car to make it look good?  and then protect it with THE most expensive wax on the market?

do you not have any customers who WANT the best, no matter what YOUR opinion is?

that seems to be a bit of a strange reply fro a pro (imo) not just from a personal take (that BOS is better than royale) but from a business point of view too


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Mirror Finish said:


> He proberbly does have more money than me, but I can machine polish a car and even with no wax can make it look a million dollars.
> 
> I can certainly think of better things to spend 7K on.
> 
> ...


Totally uncalled for post IMHO! 

Alan W


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## Silver R26 (Jul 19, 2008)

Good for you mate, if you can afford it and you wanted it then why not buy it.

I spend albiet not 7k or random stuff that most people would say why buy that, well its just because I wanted to. Sounds like you have done that on a grander scale :thumb:

Enjoy


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## Racer (Oct 27, 2005)

Enjoy your choice :thumb:


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## Rickyboy (Oct 14, 2008)

Wow 7k for a wax... frightening! Has anyone on here had a detail using Royale? Would be interesting to see their thoughts on it as a product, wether it lived up to expectation etc. 

Look forward to seeing any write-ups you may have in store for us!


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Frankly I'm amazed that there have been _any_ posts at all with a negative slant on a site full of detailers! On a non detailing site I could expect it because most people just don't 'get' what we all do. But on here surely we can appreciate the lure and desirability of something like this, and whether you'd spend the money or not, the fact that one of our members has I thought would have been universally celebrated? Gladly, on the whole that has been the case :thumb:


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## Renmure (Jan 18, 2007)

nortonski said:


> In all honesty I'm over the moon with my purchase & as has already been mentioned on here I'll lose no sleep over any negative comments. I posted this on a forum so I'll take the rough with the smooth... Ultimatey, I had the cash, the purchase made sense to me so I made the choice, one that I might add I am very happy with.


Seems like you have a lot more sense than all the knockers.
A lot of folk seem to know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
You bought if for you to use on your cars. I think thats pretty cool :thumb:


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

Viper said:


> Frankly I'm amazed that there have been _any_ posts at all with a negative slant on a site full of detailers! On a non detailing site I could expect it because most people just don't 'get' what we all do. But on here surely we can appreciate the lure and desirability of something like this, and whether you'd spend the money or not, the fact that one of our members has I thought would have been universally celebrated? Gladly, on the whole that has been the case :thumb:


I think the majority on here believe the polishing process is by far the most significant stage in achieving the finish. Dave KG's big wax test bore that out, did it not? Debunked the the whole expensive wax thing, with Collinite 915 beating Royale. So it doesn't 'amaze' me or even surprise me there's a negative slant.

But good luck to Nortonski, he can spend his money on whatever he wants, he earnt it :thumb:


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I kinda agree with some saying its madness but apparently you only live once so enjoy mate.


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## badly_dubbed (Dec 11, 2008)

its not about a 20 quid wax does the same job as a 7k wax really is it....

its the fact of owning and being able to use something so exclusive and sought after by alot of people and also being able to use it every day for life if he so chooses!

like ive said before if i had cash sitting id buy it in a second, purely for the fact of owning it


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## Aero (Feb 13, 2007)

Congratulations :thumb: hope to see plenty of pics when you have a couple of coats on the MINI


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

Viper said:


> Frankly I'm amazed that there have been _any_ posts at all with a negative slant on a site full of detailers! On a non detailing site I could expect it because most people just don't 'get' what we all do. But on here surely we can appreciate the lure and desirability of something like this, and whether you'd spend the money or not, the fact that one of our members has I thought would have been universally celebrated? Gladly, on the whole that has been the case :thumb:


At the end of the day the purchase has been made out of choice, whilst the wax is no doubt expensive & to some of course beyond what they would ever deem acceptable to pay on a wax/glaze, to me it is worthwhile.

With the combined free refills for life & the exclusivity that a wax of this quality/price brings I am happy with the purchase.

IMHO the big Z make some cracking waxes, it is, as mentioned a premium boutique brand that is one of the top manufacturers worldwide, based upon the performance of other waxes I've owned Zymöl have always been a market leader in both the longevity of such products & the subtle nuances they provide.

I understand that Zymöl have recieved bad press through DW & their users, however, believe that at this stage much of the bad press/comments have been via the likes of chinese whispers & perceived bad feeling toward the brand having ideas above their station...

Sure, I've no doubt that there are comparable products out there that will give Zymöl a run for their money, but ultimately what we see here is a quality brand manufacturing quality products.

Surely the individual users such as myself have the ability & indeed right to make a choice of which products we choose to utilise in our search for the best & least aggressive finish we can achieve.

I seek no ones approval nor agreement to purchase whichever products I prefer, likewise posting on a public forum I'll happily take the rough with the smooth & as such welcome both positive & negative comments, however, dont believe for one nano second that negative comments will affect my decision to purchase...

It is without doubt that Zymöl manufacture a very high quality product & one that is recognised worldwide as being at the pinnacle of quality/desirablity from the key top brands.

So, am I happy, in a word, YES :thumb:


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Its your money Mate spend it on what you like personally I would love a tub of this.


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## wedgie (Apr 5, 2008)

nortonski said:


> At the end of the day the purchase has been made out of choice, whilst the wax is no doubt expensive & to some of course beyond what they would ever deem acceptable to pay on a wax/glaze, to me it is worthwhile.
> 
> With the combined free refills for life & the exclusivity that a wax of this quality/price brings I am happy with the purchase.
> 
> ...


Well said mate :thumb::thumb::thumb:

Its YOUR money spend it how you feel fit.It doesnt matter what ANYONE on here thinks about your purchase, as long as you are happy that is the only thing that counts


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

nortonski said:


> Each to their own Mirror Finish...if you choose to Machine Polish a vehicle to within a micron of its clear coat/paint then good luck to you.
> 
> I on the other hand prefer a less aggressive approach, & whilst I appreciate that much of the end result is in the prep this doesn't mean that you need to shorten the life of your paintwork by constantly eating away at every little blemish & mark with a rotary/da.
> 
> ...


If your offering I'll have a sample :wave:


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## wfedwar (Dec 21, 2008)

Mirror Finish said:


> He proberbly does have more money than me, but I can machine polish a car and even with no wax can make it look a million dollars.
> 
> I can certainly think of better things to spend 7K on.
> 
> ...


So what did you think about Royale when you were comparing it to Collinite and BOS?


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

very nice purchase whens the barbacue day for some of us us to come have a play i know dream on :thumb:


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

If I'd have looked at a thread like this a few years ago I myself may have had a different comment to make...in fact I know I would've done...so no hard feelings folks.

In the context of price, madness? Perhaps, especially when we compare it to less expensive waxes offering similar if not allegedly better performance for much less money...however, in life I have few vices so I dont feel bad about this purchase what-so-ever :thumb:

Maybe it's the copius amounts of beer I've drunk this evening, but detailing is not JUST about correction & removing x percent of clearcoat. Sure I appreciate it's necessary from time to time & even (although rarely) engage in machine polishing, believe that in order to ensure the maximum length of life from our paintwork surely we should use the least aggressive method possible to provide the quality of finish we seek be that by wax or other products...


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

OK, £7K over say 20 years for an absolute top brand wax works out at 
almost exactly a quid a day! Bargain of the century... enjoy... Enjoy..! 

Regards,
Steve


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## grant_evans (Mar 2, 2008)

as said by many, its your money spend it how you want. there is no way i could afford to pay that much for a wax... but thats not to say i wouldn't if i had the money. im sure 90% of people on this site have spent £20 on a product when they could have got somthing a lot cheaper that could have done the job.


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## Sonic (Jun 28, 2007)

Some spend it on women and gambling, others on cars, watches, jewellery or antiques... you chose a wax... which actually works out to be a pretty cunning and cost effective purchase if you use it regularly enough.

Cant say id have the bottle to spend £7k even if i had it, but i can appreciate why you have.

If you're prepared to spend that on a wax then its clear its not just about quality, but for the same reason folk spent exponential amounts of money in all other walks of life - exclusivity!

Enjoy being a member of this ultra-exclusive club, many people, myself included, will always envy you for it :thumb:


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## BILL (May 12, 2006)

Congrats mate, enjoy your new wax, :wave:

Regardless of how much it cost its only a waste of money if your unhappy with the purchase (which you've already stated your delighted with) and its your hard earned to do with what you like :thumb:


Bet you cant wait to get to use it :detailer:

Bill


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## Ultimate Shine (Jun 3, 2008)

wfedwar said:


> So what did you think about Royale when you were comparing it to Collinite and BOS?


Sorry for jumping in and not reading the whole thread but this is crazy talking like this, what is Collinite 915 and BOS like compared to Royale 

When you look at your Jacob & Co watch on your arm covered in diamonds or your gold rolex watch costing in excess of £30-£70K do you say "I can't believe it if i had bought a Casio watch from Argos i would have got a calculator as well as a watch and it would have been more accurate" I have not used Royale or vintage yet but when i do i will be privalaged and enjoy every min of it. The part of LSP is a very important one to me as it plays the role of how you will feel about the finish on your car and not if you do a 50/50 with colly 915 and royale on a bonnet will it look any better. I wouldn't even do that challenge as Royale deserves it's place in a secured lit fridge with CCTV over it and Colly 915 under your kitchen sink for catching drips from the leaking drainage pipe.

When i checked the wax test and at the time being a RG55 user and knowing how awesome it makes a car look i saw the leaderboard and went holy  there is a better looking product than RG55 for less money:doublesho
I went straight out and bought it Coly 915 because for £20 great a load of wax for not a lot of money and it makes water sheet like nothing else.

I go and apply to my first car thinking oh yes and there is still one further up the list. I apply and stand back. Now with every car i do i always look and 9 times out of 10 it stares me in the face and says "check me out" this sounds ridiculous but it does it has WOW factor and that is what people love to stand out from the crowd for there car to look great. Coly 915 did absolutly nothing for me it looked like a clean car and not a WOW car, the water sheeting was amazing. So when you are driving along people say to you check out that water sheeting:argie:. No:wall:

I believe that with anyones budget there is a LSP to make you go WOW but if everyone on DW was offered a sample of Royale for £1 i bet every single person on here would take it because it will have that WOW factor in looks and water sheeting but also it's a £70K Diamond Jacob & Co watch for a trial for 6 months or however long it lasts and it will make you feel great and no matter what you drive you will be saying i am coated with a £7K wax check me out. From a ferrari to a Fiat you will feel the same.

Just for the record i would buy "Solaris" in a second.


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## Ultimate Shine (Jun 3, 2008)

Oh and by the way you enjoy every second of that stuff as you have made an investment for life and a great one at that.:thumb:


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Well said US, couldn't agree more 

I would suggest that most people who believe there isn't a difference, haven't tried a premium wax for themselves. Sure, the difference doesn't correlate directly with cost, but I liken it to a high end hi-fi - people spend hundreds, sometimes thousands on interconnects for the tiniest difference, but they can appreciate it.

It's subtle, but if it's what you love, you will see it, and you will think it's worth it.

I'd buy some too in an instant if I could afford it. Vintage is a possibility, so I'll probably be buying some.


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## agpatel (Jun 5, 2009)

Congrats! I only hope one day I can get a tub of Royale. What I have seen from uber wax's is that they look great and stay looking great throughout there life were as the lower end look good and then fade very fast. Still hope you enjoy, and post up pics and many pics at that!

How do they ship that container anyways? Just in a cardboard box with some foam or is it some special crate or something?


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

agpatel said:


> Congrats! I only hope one day I can get a tub of Royale. What I have seen from uber wax's is that they look great and stay looking great throughout there life were as the lower end look good and then fade very fast. Still hope you enjoy, and post up pics and many pics at that!
> 
> How do they ship that container anyways? Just in a cardboard box with some foam or is it some special crate or something?


Armed guard!!!


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## agpatel (Jun 5, 2009)

Mirror Finish said:


> Armed guard!!!


No wonder shipping is so much!


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## Nosbusa (Jun 22, 2009)

Congrats on the purchase. 

Fwiw. The people I know that have both Royale and Vintage. Most if not all liked the Vintage better. I would keep some Vintage on hand before you send the tub back, so you can compare both of them. To see which one you like the best. 

From what I saw. Royale was hard to apply, and to remove. You wipe the product, and it get smeary. When I saw it applied, and removed, the person had to keep wiping and wiping. 

Just a heads up.. 

If for some reason you don't like the Royale, I believe there's a money back guarantee. You might be able to go back to Vintage at no extra cost to you if you don't like it.. If you like it, then no worries.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Great buy Nortonski :thumb: 

Now if only you bought it when I lived up the road :lol::lol::lol:


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

Ultimate Shine said:


> Sorry for jumping in and not reading the whole thread but this is crazy talking like this, what is Collinite 915 and BOS like compared to Royale


that question wasnt aimed at nortonski, i think it was aimed at mirror finish seeing as he quoted him. in reference i guess as to not having used royale :thumb:


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

RussZS said:


> Well said US, couldn't agree more
> 
> I would suggest that most people who believe there isn't a difference, haven't tried a premium wax for themselves. Sure, the difference doesn't correlate directly with cost, but I liken it to a high end hi-fi - people spend hundreds, sometimes thousands on interconnects for the tiniest difference, but they can appreciate it.
> 
> ...


Good analogy there, and I was thinking about the Hi-Fi similarity myself.

Even if someone does spend a hugely disproportionate sum on a connecting cable, or in this case a prestigious wax, and in real terms it makes no difference to 99.99% of people, so what? If the person spending the money believes it does, and it makes them happy to own and use it, then that's all that matters isn't it?

It's not really about cold hard facts with things at this level; what signal to noise ratio can I measure? what's the THD percentage at 'X' Hz? How tight will the beads be? How many months protection will I get?

It's about pressing the 'play' button (or dropping the stylus onto the vinyl), closing your eyes and being transported to the Royal Albert Hall, or Wembley Stadium and knowing that your equipment is getting you as close to actually being there as is possible. It's about lifting that hefty, beautifully crafted, clear twin tub vessel out to the car, hinging the top open and lovingly massaging all those carefully selected ingredients onto your pride and joy.

Of course there's something of the autosuggestion effect involved with things like this, but who cares? There are so many things in life these days that frustrate, anger and sadden you, so if you can afford to indulge in something that brings some enjoyment and happiness, then you should embrace it. We're only here once .


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

But with Hi-Fi when you're old enough to afford the best you'll find your hearing has deteriorated! :lol:

Only joking guys as it is a good analogy! :thumb:

Alan W


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## Cheesy231 (Apr 6, 2009)

congrats to you mate, youve got your moneys worth just reading the arguments over it in this thread. happy waxing


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

Alan W said:


> But with Hi-Fi when you're old enough to afford the best you'll find your hearing has deteriorated! :lol:
> 
> Only joking guys as it is a good analogy! :thumb:
> 
> Alan W


Lol...true enough...although I'm a mere 30 something so not quite there yet...

:thumb:


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## five£wash (Oct 12, 2008)

RussZS said:


> Well said US, couldn't agree more
> 
> I would suggest that most people who believe there isn't a difference, haven't tried a premium wax for themselves. Sure, the difference doesn't correlate directly with cost, but I liken it to a high end hi-fi - people spend hundreds, sometimes thousands on interconnects for the tiniest difference, but they can appreciate it.
> 
> ...


think you summed it up here RussZS, can remember few years back when I bought Chord Signature cabling most people thought i was mad.....


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## wfedwar (Dec 21, 2008)

ianFRST said:


> that question wasnt aimed at nortonski, i think it was aimed at mirror finish seeing as he quoted him. in reference i guess as to not having used royale :thumb:


Yes, sarcasm gets lost in text sometimes.


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

good on ya nortonski. as my old man says "you cant take it with you". 7k seems a lot to lay out but as others have said, seeing as you get lifetime refills on an amazingly high end product it doesnt work out that bad. the durability of royale has been proven many times on here, plus when you come to sell your car put in the ad what wax its wearing and people will know how well its been looked after. I'd be putting it on my toast to get the most out of it.


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## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

Fair play for having the money to buy Royale - whether it makes any difference over the finish from Vintage or any other wax is immaterial, you know its on there.

If you can afford the finer things in life, expensive watches, cars, waxes etc then you should be applauded.

Stevie


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

RP Stevie said:


> Fair play for having the money to buy Royale - whether it makes any difference over the finish from Vintage or any other wax is immaterial, you know its on there.
> 
> If you can afford the finer things in life, expensive watches, cars, waxes etc then you should be applauded.
> 
> Stevie


Lol...now I wouldnt say I'm quite that comfortable, just that an opportunity arose that made it a very difficult choice to turn down... :thumb:


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## charlie53 (Apr 14, 2009)

I envy you mate  Please post some pics of the wax when it arrives so I can drool over my laptop 

Is Vintage free refills for life as well, like Royale? That's just about in my price range and definitely something I'd love to own. 

Where did you purchase the wax from?


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

charlie53 said:


> I envy you mate  Please post some pics of the wax when it arrives so I can drool over my laptop
> 
> Is Vintage free refills for life as well, like Royale? That's just about in my price range and definitely something I'd love to own.
> 
> Where did you purchase the wax from?


Indeed Zymöl Vintage also has the refills for life, I'll PM you the details :thumb:


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## Nosbusa (Jun 22, 2009)

nortonski, are you going to keep some Vintage, to test against the Royale to see which one you like the best.. I know I mentioned it before, but I'm just curious if you were? 

Thanks.


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

Nosbusa said:


> nortonski, are you going to keep some Vintage, to test against the Royale to see which one you like the best.. I know I mentioned it before, but I'm just curious if you were?
> 
> Thanks.


Hi Nosbusa, that is indeed the plan, I may do a 50/50 on the roof to assess.

Can't wait to get my hands on it, should have it in hand in about a week so watch this space :thumb:


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

wfedwar said:


> Yes, sarcasm gets lost in text sometimes.


i got it mate, dont worry :lol::lol::lol:


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## Nosbusa (Jun 22, 2009)

nortonski said:


> Hi Nosbusa, that is indeed the plan, I may do a 50/50 on the roof to assess.
> 
> Can't wait to get my hands on it, should have it in hand in about a week so watch this space :thumb:


Sounds good.. Please let us know the results.


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## wfenix (May 13, 2007)

Great purchase fella.

I have been a z concourse user for a long time now and absolutly love it as well as the other products like vinyl and so on.Will defo move up to destiny in the new year as well. I have BOS and also like that but there is something special about these waxes and if money was at hand i would also be posting my purchase on here like yourself. DOnt forget piccies fella.


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## baseballlover1 (Sep 25, 2007)

Congrats sir! Cannot wait to see how good it looks!


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## alxg (May 3, 2009)

Well I know this may appear a bit of a repeated opinion, but i'm going to pitch in anyway:
The fact that the cost of the wax makes it prohibitive to a large portion of the forum members is not a reason to say Nortonski is crazy/careless/showing off by buying some. 
As with all purchases we make, they are usually justified by an affordability assesment in our own heads, so although £7k is (to alot of us) an extraordinary amount to spend on wax, it is no more extravagant than someone who has little spare income splashing out on a £60 wax. 
Nortonski is obviously in the bracket that can make that choice, and fair play to him - I work with people who think I am daft to spend so much on cleaning products for my car, then they go and spend £1.5k on a Golf club. At the end of the day, each to their own - we all buy things that others deem to be ridiculous.
Is there going to be a huge difference in the results of Royale to Vintage? Who cares really - the benefit will come from the time when you are applying the stuff and the whole process will be as much of a pleasure as the end result (saying that, it may be a pig to work with!), and to be able to have a feel good moment time and again makes it a good purchase IMO.
It's also worth saying that we are, as PV said, all guilty of spending too much time and money (compared to others) on keeping our cars clean - to buy such an expensive wax is only testament to this cause, and shouldn't seem odd in these circles.
Anyway, that's enough of me - Nortonski, enjoy the Royale (as I'm sure you will) and maybe you can wax your new CCTV cameras with it too! :thumb:


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## Luke667 (Jun 22, 2006)

I dunno mate, just did some rough working out, and that one ***** is more expensive than buying more than 210 jars of Dodo Waxes or Pinnacle Souveran. At 200ml each that works out to 42 liters worth of wax!.


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

Luke667 said:


> I dunno mate, just did some rough working out, and that one ***** is more expensive than buying more than 210 jars of Dodo Waxes or Pinnacle Souveran. At 200ml each that works out to 42 liters worth of wax!.


Did you not read the whole thread? I can't see what relevance the above has really, I don't think for one minute anyone is pretending that Royale is good value, as has been said its not about that.


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## Rowan83 (Aug 21, 2007)

Congratulations mate, very ncie choice of wax!!!! :thumb:

If i could afford it, i would give it a try too 

Enjoy it mate.... feel free to send me a sample, lol.


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## Luke667 (Jun 22, 2006)

gt5500 said:


> Did you not read the whole thread? I can't see what relevance the above has really, I don't think for one minute anyone is pretending that Royale is good value, as has been said its not about that.


To be honest i breezed through about 7 pages out of 16... got a little tedious.

Dunno, just my opinion (which is the point of a forum) that I could never get around to spending that much on a wax, even though some people say you get a lifetime refill..which to me would probably work out to being 2 x 200ml jars worth


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

Luke667 said:


> To be honest i breezed through about 7 pages out of 16... got a little tedious.
> 
> Dunno, just my opinion (which is the point of a forum) that I could never get around to spending that much on a wax, even though some people say you get a lifetime refill..which to me would probably work out to being 2 x 200ml jars worth


Of course you are entitled to your opinion, the point I was trying to make is that the OP did not buy this product for the size of the tin or the value of it he bought it for the feeling of owning it and using it. I guess by that fact that you are working out how much you get for your money its not a product that would give you the same feeling. Funnily enough I am much like you and don't consider it good value but then I didn't buy it and the OP is happy with it and why should he be, some people spend money on drugs and say it makes them happy I think its a waste but its not for me to say.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Congrats

I used Royale once, side by side with Vintage, and peferred V, just for its sheer joy of use  it lasted all winter on my car as well. 

Always nice to have the premium branded and priced stuff, and makes perfect sense when you have people willing to pay a premium to have some themselves.


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

Bigpikle said:


> Congrats
> 
> I used Royale once, side by side with Vintage, and peferred V, just for its sheer joy of use  it lasted all winter on my car as well.
> 
> Always nice to have the premium branded and priced stuff, and makes perfect sense when you have people willing to pay a premium to have some themselves.


Did you have problems with Royale then?


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

No problem with Royale.

But someone I knew with both preferred Vintage over Royale as well.


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## agpatel (Jun 5, 2009)

Some people like blue, some people like red. If you like it then who cares.


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

Dodo Factory said:


> No problem with Royale.
> 
> But someone I knew with both preferred Vintage over Royale as well.


If I dont like it, it's going back...lol Hedging my bets at the moment, keeping the Vintage until I've had a few goes...

Gotta say...love the bits I ordered from you :thumb:


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

I tried Glasur over Lime Prime on a Racing Blue Clio 182 at the weekend - looks SUPERB



















Possibly better than HD Cleanse... need to have a play on mine


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## atomicfan (Jan 21, 2008)

Royale and Vintage are very good. It depends on what you want.

If you want max. protection and gloss then royale is best for you.

Vintage offers a better beading and nearly the same gloss but does not last as long.

I had royale on a car for over 7 months in winter after weakly visits on swirlomatics and beading was still very tight


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## Lloyd71 (Aug 21, 2008)

Is the container made from crystal or am I thinking of something else completely? I'm guessing that's where a lot of the money comes in?

Either way, have fun with your new wax! Whatever you do, don't drop it!


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

Lloyd71 said:


> Is the container made from crystal or am I thinking of something else completely? I'm guessing that's where a lot of the money comes in?
> 
> Either way, have fun with your new wax! Whatever you do, don't drop it!


Perspex, excellent though, attached is my Vintage image, the Royale is twice the size :thumb:


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

when do you take delivery?


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## philworrall (Nov 17, 2006)

Would you like to test it on my car :thumb::thumb::thumb: :argie:


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## Amos (Feb 28, 2007)

Are you selling your old Vintage, if so PM me...

Many Thanks...


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

ianFRST said:


> when do you take delivery?


Sent out from my office on Friday, should be some time mid next week  :thumb:


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## trhland (Sep 22, 2007)

please post pics of your new wax.. congrats by the way!!!!


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## wfedwar (Dec 21, 2008)

Isn't one of the two pots a custom blend for your car, while the other is the Royale?


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## nortonski (Jul 10, 2007)

wfedwar said:


> Isn't one of the two pots a custom blend for your car, while the other is the Royale?


Nope, you can choose the colour though to suit your car(s)


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## bigbro (Jul 27, 2009)

how much do you need to put a little bit of yours into another tub for one to try?!! lol:speechles lol


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## wfedwar (Dec 21, 2008)

nortonski said:


> Nope, you can choose the colour though to suit your car(s)


So one is a light color blend and the other a dark color blend, sortof like the entry level creme and carbons?


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## Escort God (Feb 23, 2009)

congrats,
be good to see the final results on a car :thumb:

enjoy


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## lockley (Mar 8, 2009)

good luck if i had the money i would buy:thumb:
even if i only had £7001:lol:
if you are willing to sample please pm me

kind regards nathan
and best of luck with your new purchase.

:thumb:http://www.imprezatypera.com:thumb:


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