# waterbase vs solvent



## Aaran (Sep 18, 2007)

been doing some research on this and it seems that water based covers in far fewer coats than solvent basecoat?

tis sold premixed correct (no need to thin?)
if it offer better coverage (assuming it lays down thicker) then i am guessing it has a chanse to get some texture like peel in it compared to solvent base ?

never sprayed with it yet but once booth is up im making the swap to it so might as well ask before i go shoot £60 of letcher waterbasecoat over a test panel lol


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## CD Cornwall (Aug 12, 2010)

Aaran said:


> been doing some research on this and it seems that water based covers in far fewer coats than solvent basecoat?


Not necessarily. Schemes have their own oddities - poor coverage on reds for example.



Aaran said:


> tis sold premixed correct (no need to thin?)
> if it offer better coverage (assuming it lays down thicker) then i am guessing it has a chanse to get some texture like peel in it compared to solvent base ?
> l


You can buy premixed and usually there's no need to thin.

If you get texture in water based paint, you've done it wrong. It lies flat and matt. It's the lacquer that creates texture.



Aaran said:


> never sprayed with it yet but once booth is up im making the swap to it so might as well ask before i go shoot £60 of letcher waterbasecoat over a test panel lol


I use Lechler and I think it's great. It's all I've used, apart from Lesonal and I prefer Lechler.

Cheers
David


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

I wouldn't say w/b lays down thicker - in fact I'd say the opposite.
It is thicker than water, but only just and as such thin coats are required. Get a run in w/b and you've got a bit of problem - it doesn't take kindly to sanding. Obviously being water based you can't wet sand it and dry sanding usually ends up with some sort of rip back leaving an edge.
So it's softly-softly, gently-gently as far as application is concerned and therefore it should go on smooth with absolutely no texture what so ever.


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

Water based> all the way !

Blending is easier 
lays down alot flatter 
less coats to cover 
less of film build 
no thinners to clean out gun just tap water then gun cleaner every so often 
less wastage 

I use Debeer 900+ w/b and colour matches even silvers/golds are spot on 

i use a hair dryer to dry base coat in-between coats 

i also have a ppg envirobase scheme if your intrested ?


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

mr paint said:


> Water based> all the way !
> 
> Blending is easier
> lays down alot flatter
> ...


Hi mr paint.
Can u explain any differences between waterbased and modified acrylic?
Also does ur ppg scheme have 1 or multiple varients for ford 6fse paint?
Cheers


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

If you get a texture finish your definatly doing something wrong. But there is less room to error, specially when trying to nib something out of it, as it doesn't dry like solvent stay very rubbery and can't tear quite easily. 
We're on glasurit 90line at work which is applied the same way as solvent, as for coverage depends on the colour, no different to solvent in some respects. We've also got bmw white label, basically glasurit labelled up as bmw's own brand.

We did have spies hecker before that. The basecoat was applied in one application 6,8,10, as in gun held 6in on first coat, 8in second coat, 10in last coat, that's it done, but with spies it really requires an oven with dry jets, or aqua dry system, which takes around 20-30 mins. Which in all honesty I never rated spies hecker, gave us nothing but problems. I personally wouldn't use the shyte on my pushbike. But also spies hecker is the same as standox just labelled different so application is the same.

Some will come ready mixed or rfu as its known (rfu= ready for use) but dependent in the brand some may not. Another one you may want to try is aquamax by max Meyer, its water base but you thin it yourself at 2:1 ratio with tap water. Application is like solvent apply a coat dry it so on.

You may also want to invest in a half held devilbiss dryer for drying the waterbase. As its the water you have evaporate for it to dry.

Link below for dmg dryer.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...goGYBQ&usg=AFQjCNGt5TH2-Mmq40Qr48T4gtUGbloydA


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

Andyb0127 said:


> .... you thin it yourself at 2:1 ratio with tap water.


Not often I contradict Andy - but tap water isn't the best stuff to use - it has chlorine, lime, etc, etc in it. 
Most systems will supply you with a thinner that costs next to nothing (although many will say it's nothing but distilled water)


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## Aaran (Sep 18, 2007)

will this be enough to dry it? (its running to a massiave 6 port system in the booth roof blowing downwards)



















Benson WH88
88kW/hr (300,000btu)
3000ft/min (tripeled) min


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

squiggs said:


> Not often I contradict Andy - but tap water isn't the best stuff to use - it has chlorine, lime, etc, etc in it.
> Most systems will supply you with a thinner that costs next to nothing (although many will say it's nothing but distilled water)


Yip very true and is not always the case with water based.... our system uses a latex binder so cant be thinned with tap water must use wb thinner 8-1??bla bla bla

but envirobase you can thin with water as above not reccomended but you can

Arran is that a direct or indirect burner ?

tommy


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

deegan1979 said:


> Hi mr paint.
> Can u explain any differences between waterbased and modified acrylic?
> Also does ur ppg scheme have 1 or multiple varients for ford 6fse paint?
> Cheers


No idea on the acrylic tbh mate sounds like a direct top coat system and water based is a base coat (colour) that then dries to a matte finish then oversprayed with a clear 2k urathane clear coat

as for 6 fse there is 3 varients

std shade 
lighter shade 
yellower shade

hope this helps

tommy


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

mr paint said:


> No idea on the acrylic tbh mate sounds like a direct top coat system and water based is a base coat (colour) that then dries to a matte finish then oversprayed with a clear 2k urathane clear coat
> 
> as for 6 fse there is 3 varients
> 
> ...


Thanks tommy.
These paints i am using a custom base coats that are modified acrylic paints requiring a clear they recommend 2k, just trying to understand if acrylic is waterbased. They advise 15 mins between base coats.

Oh and does your mixing scheme by any chance list dates for when the 6fse varients began?
Thanks again


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

squiggs said:


> Not often I contradict Andy - but tap water isn't the best stuff to use - it has chlorine, lime, etc, etc in it.
> Most systems will supply you with a thinner that costs next to nothing (although many will say it's nothing but distilled water)


No your totally correct mate. I found it hard to believe when he told me to use tap water.
Our glasurit system is actually solvent, we use M4 converter first then add the tinters, and is finally thinned 2:1 using E3 water.


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

deegan1979 said:


> Thanks tommy.
> These paints i am using a custom base coats that are modified acrylic paints requiring a clear they recommend 2k, just trying to understand if acrylic is waterbased. They advise 15 mins between base coats.
> 
> Oh and does your mixing scheme by any chance list dates for when the 6fse varients began?
> Thanks again


Hi it will just be nitro cell paint your best bet is to go to a paint shop and get then to put some in a bottle

what are you trying to do as this colour is hard to get right at the best of times

tommy


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

mr paint said:


> Hi it will just be nitro cell paint your best bet is to go to a paint shop and get then to put some in a bottle
> 
> what are you trying to do as this colour is hard to get right at the best of times
> 
> tommy


Hi tommy.
I plan to paint underbonnet plastic parts in this colour, then in time if im happy with my match and finish i will attempt to airbrush a deep scratch on my rear wheel arch.
If that goes ok ive got a new pre primed rear bumper that i will have a go at. Obviously if it looks poo ill get it done professionally but im in no rush and have plenty to practice on.
Ive been offered nitro cell colour matched to my reg no. By a ford specialist but after a bit of googling it seems nitro cell is highly flammable so kind of puts me off?
Ive also been offered a ready to spray polymer or polyurethane paint that is a real 3 stage, oarange base followed by the pearl in a clear base from a paint supplier, and today ive found a halfords near me with a cellulose mixing scheme, however they have 3 varients of 6fse and they call it mettalic not pearlescent so again put off a little.
My other worry is i plan to airbrush over it with cellulose paints and im not sure if the thinner in the paint will re activate the underlying base coat?
Ur advice would be much appreciated. Thanks


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

My honest advice is you will struggle to pull it off with a/b it will show as to light or to much met ...as you know you have to over reduce for your a/b 

using solvent as normal solvent base or nitro celly is both a bad idea for areas that have been broken through on the original finish ..as it may react and wrinkle up 

if your going to try it use water based and use the propper w/b thinner for the system 

P.s i have a nice new a/b for sale too if your interested lol 


pm me if you need any more help 


tommy


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