# What do you reckon they did wrong?



## Dave 225 (Mar 18, 2009)

Hi all

As some of you may have seen I recently had my car in at a bodyshop for a what-you-see-respray.

There's many, many issues with it, mainly the amount of scratching for brand new paint. But there's also dimples all over it, bits that are thin, etc.
Other than the fact it now matches where the paint has been put on thick enough - The paintwork is in far worse condition than when it went in.

These pictures don't really tell the full story, it's just for the bits that might not be so obvious if it's been raining when I take it back in the morning. (Swirls especially are totally invisible in daylight)

3 questions I'd like to know answers to though


How the hell would so much damage be caused to new paint!?
What would you be asking for as a resolution if this was your car?
How thick *should* new paint be?


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

You have just got a full house in defect bingo 

If it was my car they would be repainting it, you can forgive them for marring and sanding pigtails but not for the rest.


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## chip20 (Mar 9, 2008)

Looks like they have buffed it with a dead Hedgehog! I would be taking it back!


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## Dave 225 (Mar 18, 2009)

chip20 said:


> Looks like they have buffed it with a dead Hedgehog! I would be taking it back!


Looks like it was alive and trying to get away to me!

Keep 'em comin'..


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Yeah it looks prepped badly, painted badly and even for a body shop buffed badly. Can you take it to a different body shop for a second opinion, that's what I would do?


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## Adam_84 (Apr 4, 2010)

What car have you got there?


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## Dave 225 (Mar 18, 2009)

stangalang said:


> Yeah it looks prepped badly, painted badly and even for a body shop buffed badly. Can you take it to a different body shop for a second opinion, that's what I would do?


Second bodyshop may well be an idea - hadn't even considered that.
Will see what the reaction to 'I want you to do it all again' is tomorrow. Ta

Prepping actually looked pretty good when I saw it, all felt and looked really smooth -- pics;

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3285785&postcount=567



Adam_84 said:


> What car have you got there?


It's an '05 Leon Cupra R


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## Adam_84 (Apr 4, 2010)

I have a 52 plate Leon Cupra in the same colour as yours used to be probably, every panel a slightly different shade of yellow lol is a really nice yellow when it's been resprayed. And on a side note I'm also on seatcupra.net really good forum if you need help on spending your money on modifications or advice on problems. If you don't mind me asking was it a full respray that you had done?


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## Adam_84 (Apr 4, 2010)

Just saw your pics, how far into the door shuts did they do?


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## 888-Dave (Jul 30, 2010)

Again... I see this so much nowadays, poor work from body shops is becoming more and more common. They do seem to have ticked all the defect boxes.

Looks like not great prep, poor sanding of (if any) filler, not the best flatting and completely rubbish finishing.

Personally I would go back (calmly) no one likes someone going off their nut, see what their reaction is to correcting said problems and take it from there.

I would want some one else doing the work as whoever did it before clearly shouldn't be working in a bodyshop... did he have any eyes


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

deffo respray again mate, the pigtailing is just amateur and the little pimples you are referring to are sometimes called fish eyes, caused by NOT cleaning the panel correctly so either wax or grease still on the panel....very poor and shoddy if you ask me....I had 20+ yrs experience as a painter for some top marques and it was trainees that got work to look like that....


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## zedcor (Jan 9, 2011)

Shocking work for a pro shop.

I'm guessing that you've already paid them since you initially (seat forum ) seemed to be relatively happy with their work?

Most of us would look to pay cash for work like this, in order to get it cheaper, but we all should really pay for anything over £100 with a credit card as it gives us that added consumer protection. Even if you have plenty of cash in your current account, don't use your debit card as your protection is still so much less than when using a cc.

*Credit card purchases

If the goods or services you have bought cost over £100 and you paid by credit card, you may be protected by the Consumer Credit Act. This states that the credit card company is equally liable for any defects. Therefore, should a problem arise, you can claim either from the trader or from the credit card company.

Note that for this protection to apply, the contract price must be over £100. For example, if you have bought a suit, the jacket of which costs £75 and the trousers cost £40, you will have protection. However, if you bought the items separately instead of as one suit, you would not be afforded the same protection as neither of the items amount to £100.*


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## Dave 225 (Mar 18, 2009)

Adam_84 said:


> I have a 52 plate Leon Cupra in the same colour as yours used to be probably, every panel a slightly different shade of yellow lol is a really nice yellow when it's been resprayed. And on a side note I'm also on seatcupra.net really good forum if you need help on spending your money on modifications or advice on problems. If you don't mind me asking was it a full respray that you had done?





Adam_84 said:


> Just saw your pics, how far into the door shuts did they do?


Yeah - it does look awesome from a distance (see my full thread on SCN or here ) SCN is responsible for much of my spending, though. Saw a Cupra R in Spain some years ago, always wanted one -- so when the chance arose I jumped! Was a what-you-see spray - did do inside the door shuts and stuff -- although by the looks of it to varying amounts.



888-Dave said:


> Again... I see this so much nowadays, poor work from body shops is becoming more and more common. They do seem to have ticked all the defect boxes.
> 
> Looks like not great prep, poor sanding of (if any) filler, not the best flatting and completely rubbish finishing.
> 
> ...


Calmly is the plan - Basically want to get across that I'd have rejected it if noticed at collection, being an **** gets you nowhere. Very little filler on it 'cos it was kept pretty well *smug* -- although there's plainly some parts it needed and didn't get.



phobia said:


> deffo respray again mate, the pigtailing is just amateur and the little pimples you are referring to are sometimes called fish eyes, caused by NOT cleaning the panel correctly so either wax or grease still on the panel....very poor and shoddy if you ask me....I had 20+ yrs experience as a painter for some top marques and it was trainees that got work to look like that....


Perfect comment. Thanks, v helpful.


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## Dave 225 (Mar 18, 2009)

zedcor said:


> Shocking work for a pro shop.
> 
> I'm guessing that you've already paid them since you initially (seat forum ) seemed to be relatively happy with their work?
> 
> ...


All on credit card, was aware of some form of protection so that's great too, ta - and yep - originally very happy, but then, with new paint you don't really expect to be looking for flaws (especially the bubbling and bits that have been totally missed!!!) so the initial "WOW, IT'S ALL THE SAME COLOUR" gets the better of you -- Notice more stuff each time I look at it now.


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## Dave 225 (Mar 18, 2009)

Been this morning.

Basically they've acknowledged that there's an issue, but that they were "very unlikely to respray it" 
Have made it clear that with all the points wrong and the amount of damage to the lacquer already that I will settle for nothing less than a full respray.
In my mind with there being not enough paint on some panels, as soon as they start to do patching jobs it's just all going to look different.

Can potentially see that the consumer credit act may be the way forward. It's booked in for next week to be 'looked at' - Even though the reason I'd been waiting so long to go back was because the sprayer wasn't there to give his opinion either!!!!!

Didn't like it being called an amateur job though. Just saying what I've been told.


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## BlackCat (May 2, 2008)

Here's my last result with an insurance approved body repair shop:










Guess which body panel they had painted?









Close up:









Front bumper lip:









Not only that, but a couple of months later I was parting the car out and when I removed the rear bumper (which they had resprayed), I spotted they hadn't removed or even taped up my rear number plate lights and had thus painted straight over them!!!!!!!!! I must have been driving around with my rear number plate not illuminated !

How these muppets sleep at night is beyond me.

I lodged a complaint with my local trading standards not that that will do much if anything.

Hope you get yours sorted bud.

Paul


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Just seen this I'm in the bodyshop trade looking at it I'd say.

1, find out from them if they paint it in 2k solid or clear over base, I've known body shop to charge for basecoat/clear, when they have used 2k solid colour because 2k is quicker and only two coats but does not polish until fully cured.

2, they look like flatting and polishing marks, reason for this is normally paint is not fully cured when they polished so would look ok , but as the paint drys the flatting marks will come back again.

3, the other marks ie the little frog eye you can see is a silicon, caused by poor degreasing or lack of it, this can be caused by compresser
Not drained properly causing contamination in paint, or something like wd40 as this will cause it aswell (same again not solvent wiped properly) there's so many factors that can cause this even if the car had tyres shine on it that will do it.

The other mark looks like it was in previous paint work again bad prep, even down to bird on the paint it will mark it, but you can't just flat it and paint over it, you have apply a primer over it prior to painting.

4, the pigs tails you can see are from an orbital sander. Which could either be from prep, or if like us they orbital sand the paint then compound it lack of experience at flatting and polishing paint.

So Id say it heads towards bad prep.

Easiest way to tell if they did it in 2k is when you polish it do you get a yellow residue on the cloth that's 2k, if it's a White residue then it's clear over base. Burke defiantly be taking it back and complaining. Fortunately to many bodyshops now a days are more intereted in end of month figures rather than quality of there work.


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

sad thing is, they get away with jobs like these 99% of the time... 

definately get it resprayed, both them examples are terrible! hope you can get it sorted without too much hassle


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## lew007 (Jun 20, 2010)

i'm no expert at resprays but i always think if they cant do it right the 1st time then a 2nd attempt may well be no better. 
a local company took 6 attempts at tinting my bro in laws civic windows before they got it to an acceptable standard. by this point he was tempted to pay someone else to do it. i'm no suggesting that you do that as i know a re-spray is alot more expensive.
hope you get it sorted out
lew


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## Dave 225 (Mar 18, 2009)

BlackCat -- That's actually shocking, amazingly so -- Really don't understand how they can let that go out, would be paranoid about the confrontation I'd have with work like that!!

Andy - Thanks - another awesome response. Have informed the credit card people there may be a problem if the bodyshop fail to satisfy me (Sounds kinda wrong, that) .. so those responses will form part of my ammunition if it goes to the next level, so to speak


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Dave, no problem glad I could help, if you need any further advice just pm me I'll be only to glad to help you.


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## Dave 225 (Mar 18, 2009)

Right.

Update.

Andy - Most helpful of you, much obliged as said in PM - Thanks!

I can get along with anyone - and I mean anyone, despite their flaws, but the guy who sprayed my car is the single biggest prick I've spoken to in my life, ever.
Basically - I don't think he liked someone much younger than him speaking ill of his work - that said, do it right and you'll be praised.

The outcome from the sounds of it is that they want to repaint the affected doors and machine polish the rest - personally I don't deem this as acceptable so have instructed them to do no work until I've given an OK.

His argument was basically that it's a good job, and that it's a vehicle that's going to get swirled and scratched "as soon as you go through a car wash anyway" - Plainly he has totally the wrong idea about me.

Does anyone reading have an active bodyshop or detailing business (or know of one in my area) that would mind seeing the car and just writing a couple of quick paragraphs on the quality of the job/what you personally would deem the outcome to be? I can see this going down the credit card dispute route.

Once again thanks for all your replies so far.


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## Chufster (Nov 21, 2010)

If that's his attitude, I can see the machine polish as being half hearted at best.

I wouldn't have much confidence in him correcting it at all and would probably lean towards going the refund / credit card route and getting it resprayed somewhere else. Preferably somewhere recommended to you.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

god that is appalling, in fact, my project car needs some bodywork, and im not looking forward to putting it in ANYWHERE as i have an awful feeling it just wont come out perfect


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## toomanycitroens (Jan 14, 2011)

That is poor, I hate trusting anyone with my cars nowadays, thats why I joined DW to make sure I get correct info and experience from you guys.
I hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction.


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## SNAKEBITE (Feb 22, 2010)

How about an advert in the local paper along the lines of "Joes body shop is awful, avoid at all costs"?


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## who45 (Feb 8, 2008)

its a poor job regardles of what he says - poor prep is apparant, poor painting too, paint looks very thin to me as well - like its thinned out too much to make it last - i dont think a machine polish will gloss that up - more likely take too muuch paint off leaving it thinner

there is a phrase - you get what you pay for - esp if its mr backstreet as you dont want to pay a few grand. may we ask......did you pay alot for the work? as i feel if hes response is like that it more likely hes done a cheap job for maximum money gain and now theres comebak he doesnt like it as he knows himself the quality hes done - seen it many times before when someone i know paid 400 for a respray - and it looked just like yours (no offence intended)


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## Dave 225 (Mar 18, 2009)

Dependant on what they suggest as an outcome I'll be more prone to throwing their name around to name and shame - not that you can't find it if you read my other threads or whatever. 

Do regret not having had more quotes - but several of the 'rents cars and one of mine have been there before with good result - their attitude to getting the custom was very positive as you'd expect, but the way they were talking seduced me..


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## Dave 225 (Mar 18, 2009)

who45 - just shy of 2 and a half grand - not a backstreet shop, either! (Quite frankly I think I'd have been better doing so...)
No offence taken - All this will be part of my case against them.


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

No paint will look swirled or marked, no matter now old or new. 

Just painting affected doors my main worry there would be is the colour goin to match, as I've seen a painter do the side of a car, then had to re-do rear door, got the car outside guess what rear door didn't match.

In my experience if this painter is that laugh of an idiot do you trust him painting your car again.

Polishing other deffects main concern there, how much they compound it, meaning yhe thickness of the paint after having no body to it leaving a very thin amount of paint, what you will have there is a laquer with no gloss or depth of shine.

Polishing they should be using 3m three stage polishing procedure.

Stage one, green foam pad using 3m fast cut plus

Stage two, yellow foam pad usin ultra fine compound 

Stage three, blue foam pad usin ultafina se ( anti hologram/swirl removal)

Then polished and waxed (ie in there valeting bay)

If it was me to be honest I'd have the car taken to another bodyshop thensend them the bill after it's been put right.

Dave, if you have any questions you want to ask mate regarding anything to do with your car don't hesitate to pm me ....


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## Ducky (Mar 19, 2007)

Jesus, 2.5K I'd be expecting a serious job for that!! If you'd have said £500,and going on the painters attitude I'd have told him to stick it and resolve it myself, but with that much spent I'd be pursuing him all the way mate!


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## Dave 225 (Mar 18, 2009)

Yeah - kinda why I don't really want them to just machine polish it and it 'be done with' .. peh.


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## Ben_W (Feb 15, 2009)

Dave, i think you are giving them a little too much slack personally.

The pics dont lie, its a poor, poor job and despite him being older and perhaps not liking being told whats what by 'some young upstart', he isnt really in a place to argue. I'd be back to the most senior manager they have or the owner and tell them politely but firmly. You are not happy with the quality of their work and detail the defects and you would ask they they correct it by either respraying it themselves or allowing you to take it elsewhere and them paying for it. If they dont play ball, release the (credit card) hounds. This would be far far stronger backed up by a professional report from someone other than them. To be honest, given the stink you're causing, i wouldnt take it back there. I think they have tried to do it on the cheap, thinking you'd not notice.

They dont really have any excuses for what they have given you to be honest. I suspect they know its a duff job and they are just trying to fob you off, though not knowing you probably know a much about paint as them.

Stand your ground, take no crap. Get what you paid a lot of money for,


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## who45 (Feb 8, 2008)

> who45 - just shy of 2 and a half grand - not a backstreet shop, either! (Quite frankly I think I'd have been better doing so...)
> No offence taken - All this will be part of my case against them.


jeesh thats shocking - that man has no excuse unless hes tried maximum profit from mimum product and time - thats reall out of order to leave a car like that - twice the work to fix it. - is he registered with that place that certificates bodyshops......im sure if he is they would be interested


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## Chufster (Nov 21, 2010)

I would suggest that you take it to another body shop and get a full report in writing stating what is wrong with it. Sort of like an AA inspection on a used car!

Then take that report to the bodyshop that did your job and present them with the findings and ask them what they are going to do about it. If their suggestions are not to your satisfaction, go the credit card route. You have an independant report to back up your grevance and have given them the opportunity to put right their wrong. Then take it back to a decent bodyshop (probably the one who gave you the report) and get them to do it. Again paying by credit card. You should then get your refund either from the poor body shop or your credit card company.


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## Dave 225 (Mar 18, 2009)

They've responded this morning saying they want to patch it.

As the attitude of his staff was utterly appauling, as well as the fact that in no way do I trust 'Steve' to do the work again, I'll be off to a couple of bodyshops later.

As stated before, if anyone would fancy doing me a couple of paragraphs saying "it's an appauling amateur job" upon inspection, that'd be awesome.

It's not a satisfactory result - and it's not being taken. Patching jobs leads to visibility, and to be honest - that's not why I decided to part with the money for a respray.


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## Chufster (Nov 21, 2010)

I'm glad to hear you're not budging. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. I think far too many people accept poor service. When the Credit card company refund you, i'm sure they'll go chasing the body shop for their money back and they won't be able to fob them off, like an unsuspecting customer. 

They'll think twice about cutting corners again after the credit card company has beaten them round the heads for their refund!


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## Dave 225 (Mar 18, 2009)

... comment removed


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2011)

Be careful how you deal with this complaint Dave,i would get advice of trading standards as to how to approach this.
I think to be fare you have to give them 1 chance only to sort out the problem and they have said they can sort it out and see what happens there,but if you let them touch the car and they say that they can sort it once they have started you have agreed to let them finish,but i would strongly advise you to ring trading standards(consumer advice) they are on your side,they will give you lots of info as how to tackle this.


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## Czechboy (Jan 24, 2007)

Those buffer pigtails are a nightmate. I had them in my paint from previous owner getting a bonnet respray.....................and I had to wetsand them out!!!










Mig


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## TIODGE (Jan 26, 2011)

cant be nothing worse. i got mine back from a bodyshop last month after someone ran into the back of me. the paint job looked good. took the back wheels off this week and overspray all over the rear arches. you would think people would take more care of other peoples property


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## chrisw87 (Feb 6, 2011)

Good luck with getting the best outcome. From a business point of view I can understand the profit side, though that is not excuse when that paint IS your business. If I was the business owner I would be embarrassed to even try to wet-sand that out and give it to a customer.


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Dave,
I've spoken to one of our guys in the office, basically he said your best bet would be to pay an independent assessor to look at your car or a paint technician, they will write a report for you out lineing problems, then the next step would be a solicitor...


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## Dave 225 (Mar 18, 2009)

An assessor has been out to it today;

They've basically said everything we've outlined is accurate bar the requirement for a full respray. So as to take the proper route they're going to go ahead and try to fix the problem; however, if it looks like a patch job we'll be going further.

My issue with much of what they'll do is how it could affect the longevity of the paint - which again, you know, is a reason the respray was done.

We'll see how it comes back... Yet another week without now, driving another wallowy petrol-hungry, poorly built Ford.. laff


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