# How to Haggle on a used car.



## renton (Nov 27, 2005)

As you know I am in the market for a Smax and need your help on how to haggle with the dealer as the other day when I tried it I got no where.....

I went to look at a 07 smax titanium with 5300 miles on the clock, dealer wanted 13k for it, I wasnt prepared to pay anywhere near that.

plus he offered me a really insulting p/x price for my mazda 6(8k for a 60 plate 2.2 sport estate)

I tried to get him to up the p/x offer and come down on the smax by 2k but to quote his words" I can sell that car all day long at 13k"...so why has it been on his forecourt for 3 weeks???

Anyway back on topic..

We want an smax with either the 2.0 ecoboost lump or the 2.2 tdci lump with titanium spec.

Ive seen a couple of ecoboosts on autotrader and was just wondering what you thought about the pricing.

these two..........

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...postcode/ox106dh/radius/1501/page/1?logcode=p

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...radius/1501/page/1/postcode/ox106dh?logcode=p

and this one.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...radius/1501/postcode/ox106dh/page/2?logcode=p

The top two are from a dealer and the bottom one is a private dealer.

diesel wise I have seen these.........

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...age/4/radius/1501/keywords/titanium?logcode=p

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...tanium/radius/1501/postcode/ox106dh?logcode=p

Does anyone have access to book prices on either of these to give me an idea on what I should be looking at getting them for?

I'm crap at haggling but want to give it my best shot !!

cheers

Steve


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## renton (Nov 27, 2005)

Also, would you expect more of a discount on a private sale as the seller cant offer warranty etc?


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

With today's salesmen I don't believe there is any magic formal for haggling. Set a price in your mind what you are prepared to pay for a car, tell him what you will pay, if he says no way, then walk away. I'm currently in the process of selling my Mondeo, I've been offered more for cash from a Ford dealer than for part ex with my new purchase.

I tend not to treat Glasses or any guide as gospel, some people do, I don't, if I want a particular car I will pay over the guide price if the purchase brings a satisfaction.


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## Tom H (May 20, 2009)

If you go on Parkers they will give you a good idea, you'll need to pay for them but they will be worth it.

With dealers for these type of cars they are correct in what they say, they can sell for these prices and will hold off a few weeks as someone will come along and pay the screen price.

When haggling its always best to level with the sales person, you want something and they also want something, find out what can be done price wise or accessories etc so they will make the money they want and you get the best deal, also ask to get the sales manager involved but ask to see the sales manager rather than the sales person vanishing to "speak to the manager" as they could just be popping into the loo for a few mins!!


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

It's not that you are cr*p at haggling Steve, it's just all Car Sales Executives (that's a laugh :wall are ALL [email protected]!

Just my opinion (from experience) of course ... :wave:


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## renton (Nov 27, 2005)

Tom H said:


> If you go on Parkers they will give you a good idea, you'll need to pay for them but they will be worth it.
> 
> With dealers for these type of cars they are correct in what they say, they can sell for these prices and will hold off a few weeks as someone will come along and pay the screen price.
> 
> When haggling its always best to level with the sales person, you want something and they also want something, find out what can be done price wise or accessories etc so they will make the money they want and you get the best deal, also ask to get the sales manager involved but ask to see the sales manager rather than the sales person vanishing to "speak to the manager" as they could just be popping into the loo for a few mins!!


If he can sell the 07 plate all day long at that price how come they have been calling me all week aboit it?

Would you pay 13k for an 07 plate car if for a grand more you cam get into a 2010 car?


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## Tom H (May 20, 2009)

Bristle Hound said:


> It's not that you are cr*p at haggling Steve, it's just all Car Sales Executives (that's a laugh :wall are ALL [email protected]!
> 
> Just my opinion (from experience) of course ... :wave:


Having being in car sales for a number of years Previously I wouldn't call me [email protected], it may be the attitude of the people wanting to buy the car?? Used to get a lot of people thinking it was their right to get a discount off a car as well as a huge amount for their px when unreality it's not worth what the customer thinks... Also a sales person only gets say 10% of the profit so if they give you a car for peanuts with a 200 quid margin after servicing, warranty etc... They make £20... That's why I said above, just talk to the sales person and find a common ground that your both happy with, not just think you should get the car for x amount and then you want y amount for your car.


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## Tom H (May 20, 2009)

renton said:


> If he can sell the 07 plate all day long at that price how come they have been calling me all week aboit it?
> 
> Would you pay 13k for an 07 plate car if for a grand more you cam get into a 2010 car?


It seems a decent price for the mileage at just over 5k it's pretty much a new car. 
I'm only stating what I know from my time in car sales and trying to give you some pointers...


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

Set a price , Stick to it , Don't get sucked in by the bull**** , You are in control you are buying the car off him , It's his job to sell you the car and to extract your money , Sometimes not the car that you want ,

It's YOUR money , Not his , He has no right to it 

If the salesman starts going off about this and that , Walk away 

They are not all arseholes though, Some of them really do listen 

Oh and S~}#%^* M*^% ex Jaguar Sidcup if you come on this forum , you are the biggest wan*er of a salesman I have ever met


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Tom H said:


> It seems a decent price for the mileage at just over 5k it's pretty much a new car.
> I'm only stating what I know from my time in car sales and trying to give you some pointers...


Yep spot on its all about the mileage, 5k over six years is so low I'd want to know more about the cars history.


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Tom H said:


> Having being in car sales for a number of years Previously I wouldn't call me [email protected], it may be the attitude of the people wanting to buy the car?? Used to get a lot of people thinking it was their right to get a discount off a car as well as a huge amount for their px when unreality it's not worth what the customer thinks... Also a sales person only gets say 10% of the profit so if they give you a car for peanuts with a 200 quid margin after servicing, warranty etc... They make £20... That's why I said above, just talk to the sales person and find a common ground that your both happy with, not just think you should get the car for x amount and then you want y amount for your car.


No offence meant Tom

It's just my Father & my Brother were collectively in the Motor Trade, from Sales person to Management & then running their own Car Sales business', new and used, for over 60 years and some of the tactics, not just them, but other Sales person employ, are at worst bordering on criminal

Probably been listening to them too much! Lol

Best Sales person I came across was selling Audi's to fund a Business Pilots license in America. Great guy and you could tell he was to 'honest' to be a 'Car Sales Executive'

Like I said Tom, no offence meant, just my opinion speaking from my experiences :thumb:


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## renton (Nov 27, 2005)

Tom H said:


> It seems a decent price for the mileage at just over 5k it's pretty much a new car.
> I'm only stating what I know from my time in car sales and trying to give you some pointers...


It was a nice car but not perfect. The engine was the 2.5petrol turbo one and it had no service history so even though it had only done them miles it had not been serviced for 6 years? 
Plus the radio didn't work?


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

From my day to day observations salesmen are mistitled, they are in the main, order takers working to the daily morning briefing from the so called sales manager.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

renton said:


> It was a nice car but not perfect. The engine was the 2.5petrol turbo one and it had no service history so even though it had only done them miles it had not been serviced for 6 years?
> Plus the radio didn't work?


Walk away


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

It might have 5k on the clock but its still 6 years old.

As pointed out above the idea is to come to a common ground there is no right price, or wrong price. The goal is for both parties to reach a deal that is acceptable to both of you. I feel that most private people overvalue there cars, both on price and condition, likewise dealers do want silly money for some cars. 

Get a rough idea of what your car is worth, get prices for px's against other cars, see if mazda dealers will buy your car for cash. Decide on your budget, forget about what the car is up for and how much yours is worth, just decide how much ou want to spend to change. You might decide you want to spend. 2k, so tell the salesman you want to spend £1500, then argue on tax or a free service, argue is the wrong word really but you get the point. 

Always be prepared to walk away, don't get carried away and she too much enthusiasm, remember there are other cars out there. 

Good luck


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

S63 said:


> I tend not to treat Glasses or any guide as gospel, some people do, I don't, if I want a particular car I will pay over the guide price if the purchase brings a satisfaction.


That's exactly the way I feel about, I don't understand why people will look at a car, decide it's exactly what they want only to then go on and say "but the price is too high because I know what a car like this is worth" ? To me it's very simple, if you really want the car you pay the lowest price the seller will take or you walk away and keep looking !



Bristle Hound said:


> It's not that you are cr*p at haggling Steve, it's just all Car Sales Executives (that's a laugh :wall are ALL [email protected]!
> 
> Just my opinion (from experience) of course ... :wave:


On the whole I would agree, when we were looking for a Golf GTI for my brother I realised just what some dealers are like (one was a flat out racist and one was either a liar or a moron!) but the dealer he eventually bought a car off was a very straight, decent and honest chap. When my brother asked him what his best price was he simply in a very polite manner said "the screen price is the price we want, we believe the car is worth it so there will be no reduction but I appreciate that anyone interested would try to get the best deal they can". We believed the car was worth the money so paid it and although there would be no reduction in price we managed to negotiate a few "sweeteners" which was a bonus !


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## renton (Nov 27, 2005)

SteveTDCi said:


> It might have 5k on the clock but its still 6 years old.
> 
> As pointed out above the idea is to come to a common ground there is no right price, or wrong price. The goal is for both parties to reach a deal that is acceptable to both of you. I feel that most private people overvalue there cars, both on price and condition, likewise dealers do want silly money for some cars.
> 
> ...


We have someone to buy the Mazda so will be going in with cash or taking finance.

Just wanted to find out what sort of price would be fair on the cars I've linked.

Cheers

Steve


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Tom H said:


> It seems a decent price for the mileage at just over 5k it's pretty much a new car.
> I'm only stating what I know from my time in car sales and trying to give you some pointers...


It's an 07 plate.

It's 6 years old regardless of the mileage.

A 2 year old car with 30, 000 miles is worth more.

If I walked into a dealer and said my car only has 5k on the clock, I want top money, they'd tell me to get lost.


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

Kerr said:


> It's an 07 plate.
> 
> It's 6 years old regardless of the mileage.
> 
> ...


Just about sums it up IMO, dealer will always emphasise what they see as the good points.

When they're selling you'll get "it's low mileage"

When they're buying you'll get "but it's still x amount of years old"

Low mileage isn't all it's cracked up to be either !


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## bigbadjay (May 29, 2012)

If the value is in low mileage it will only increase - decreasing the value. Id prefer a car half the age but twice the mileage kinda thing. Just pay what you think its worth, and no more


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Glass's guide says your first one is valued from £11, 900-14, 300.










So they are asking over absolutely top end money for a high spec car, which it's not.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

On that first one the car people value it at £11666 to £13100, if you go to the main site click on finance and px, then when the link opens click on the px. It will give you a rough idea of hw much money they have in the car. Oh and I know the first one is at the car people 

Oh and either of the first two for me, probably the second one. The last one is the mk1, the rest are the facelift versions. Evans halshaw won't budge on price (3rdlink)


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## Deanoecosse (Mar 15, 2007)

A 6 year old Smax with just 5300 miles on the clock, yet no service history to back that up? I wouldn't even consider that car a second longer. A Smax isn't your typical weekend toy that could possibly explain which it's averaged just 900 miles a YEAR. It's too much money for ANY car without a known history in my opinion


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Deanoecosse said:


> A 6 year old Smax with just 5300 miles on the clock, yet no service history to back that up? I wouldn't even consider that car a second longer. A Smax isn't your typical weekend toy that could possibly explain which it's averaged just 900 miles a YEAR. It's too much money for ANY car without a known history in my opinion


Pretty much a stick on that it has been a hire car as big cars aren't leased that often.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Looking at the trade in value of the car I've highlighted, glass' s say it can be as low as £8800. 

As I've said in my car search thread, the price of cars seem to have rocketed in the last 8 months to unrealistic levels. 

On the other side trade in values have slumped dramatically. 

£8800 to £14, 500 is a 65% mark up. 

I appreciate they have profits to make, but 65% over trade in price is way way too much. 

It just seems to be the market is attempting to screw the people who can afford to change car at the moment.


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## Freddie (Mar 17, 2013)

For that price you can get a 09 plate titanium with under 20000 miles on it. (barely run in for a diesel.)

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201232481412802


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Freddie said:


> For that price you can get a 09 plate titanium with under 20000 miles on it. (barely run in for a diesel.)
> 
> http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201232481412802


The 1.8 diesel is a shocker of an engine.

It's also very underpowered for a car that size.


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## Shariain (Feb 6, 2013)

Put the reg in to webuyanycar.com saying you own the car and you want to sell it. That will give you the bottom book price for the car then put £1-2k on it for the garages profit and work from there.


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## renton (Nov 27, 2005)

Kerr said:


> Glass's guide says your first one is valued from £11, 900-14, 300.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kerr,

Where is that valuation from just out of interest just so I can put my motors details in to see if what they are offering me is fair?

Also does it take into account the mileage?


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

It's Glass' s price guide. You can register to get free basic checks.

If I remember correctly, this is your car. 









They are offering you rock bottom money for your car. If I remember correctly your car was also very high specification?

Offering you rock bottom money and asking over top book on their car is a very poor deal. You've got a near £5000 swing in their favour.


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## renton (Nov 27, 2005)

Kerr said:


> It's Glass' s price guide. You can register to get free basic checks.
> 
> If I remember correctly, this is your car.
> 
> ...


Yep my car is the top of the range model.

The only thing against mine is the mileage @59000 but is has a full dealer history apart from the last one which was done by a mazda specialist.

Would that make a difference?

I know what you mean about offering bottom book for mine though and expecting over top book for their car?


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## renton (Nov 27, 2005)

The 07 with 5300 miles @ 13k is a bit dodgy in my opinion.

No service history
Wrong stereo in it and doesnt work
wrong year alloys on it(it is wearing a set of 2010 ford option alloys.

here is a link to it if anyone cares to have a look...

http://www.smc-cars.com/ford/used-cars/search/9702/ford-s-max

also how can they say my car is only worth 8k when it looks like this .....







I'd go as far as saying that it is in much better condition than the smax.


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## Billigmeister (Mar 3, 2013)

i would avoid that one - why would someone who travels so little and doesn't care about the car (no service history) bother buying/changing the alloys.

Gut feel is usually right so go with that and walk away.

get a few more quotes for your trade in price with other places. They should all come within £500 of each other. At least you will know for sure. Check the we buy any car price for your motor and see is similar. Gives you all the ammunition for your pricing side of the deal.

I find the free online car valuations things all very variable, the key thing is if you do your research and there are enough smax's about, you can get a lot of comparable cars to judge what is the right level.

When i bought mine and my wifes recently you could see a few of the chain/supermarkets have priced them cheaper than most and some of them have a "this is the lowest price - no price reductions". They are a good gauge of the true market price i reckon. 

Some also do price matching..........managed to get a few hundred knocked off my wifes at one of those with price matching so worth checking that out.

good luck

ps yours looks great and should be worth more than they say.


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## Freddie (Mar 17, 2013)

Kerr said:


> The 1.8 diesel is a shocker of an engine.
> 
> It's also very underpowered for a car that size.


Never had problems with the engine. But must admit only ever driven the 1.8 diesel in a focus.

Was just trying to give an example of high spec s max's he could get for his money. Did spot a few 2 litre and 2.5 litre petrols when i had a quick browse on autotrader. All newer. Low mileage. Full service history etc. And a fair few weRe titanium spec.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Kerr said:


> Glass's guide says your first one is valued from £11, 900-14, 300.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dunno what Glasses Guide you are looking at but I just ran that car through my Glass Net account (proper Glass's Guide but online version) and they are actually £181 under the Glass's Retail book price.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

nick_mcuk said:


> Dunno what Glasses Guide you are looking at but I just ran that car through my Glass Net account (proper Glass's Guide but online version) and they are actually £181 under the Glass's Retail book price.


It's their own online free guide.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

S63 said:


> Walk away


This, all day long, and thrice on a Sunday!
In fact, run, and don't stop until you can't take another step.

That said, if you were determined enough, you could ask any Ford dealer's service dept to run the plate number and it'd give you details of where it was sold, servicing, and any recalls outstanding.
With 5K in 6 years, it still should have had its 1K check, and the oil changed at least once or twice.
Similarly there should be a paper trail for MOTs done since 2010.

If it genuinely has no service history, but the mileage all corresponds on the paperwork, then it's possibly been a grandparents' car used to ferry the grandkids away for the day, the rest of the time it sat unused.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Kerr said:


> It's their own online free guide.


Which I will rest my case....the likes of Parkers and all these free online guides for public are waaaaaay out!


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## griffin1907 (Mar 4, 2006)

walk away and keep looking. There WILL be another one. If he can sell them all day long, as stated, why hasn't this one gone. 

We're looking for a cheap auto run around. Saw a great J Reg Metro (ok, not everyones choice) the guy wanted..............£1400 for it !!!!! When we stopped laughing we walked away.


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