# Wax Hologramming - had enough!



## Boothy (Aug 19, 2010)

I have hac a pot of Vics Concourse Red for about 6 months now and was loving it until recently. However since machine polishing my car I seem to be plagued by holograms in the wax. I keep applying it thinner and thinner and initially I think its come off well until it hits strong direct sunlight. Once it does it seems to just leave hologrammes everywhere that I can't.get rid off. Tried using a QD, washing again with a shampoo and even reapplying another coat but they are always there.
I'm.using a Sonus foam applicator to apply and the wax is kept in the fridge all the time. I really need to sort this out or its going up for sale. Really not happy as it supposed to be the dog's but for love nor money I can't get it to come off right.

Ideas, help etc.


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## Dan J (Jun 18, 2008)

from your post it sounds like you've got some holograms from machine polishing so you'll need to go over it very lightly with a finishing polish like menzerna 85 re 5 on a finishing pad to remove them,


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## Boothy (Aug 19, 2010)

Dan J said:


> from your post it sounds like you've got some holograms from machine polishing so you'll need to go over it very lightly with a finishing polish like menzerna 85 re 5 on a finishing pad.


That was my initial thought but if I wipe the car down with some IPA the hologrammes disappear? Bonkers!


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## Dan J (Jun 18, 2008)

ahhh sounds like you are applying too much wax then.


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

I would love to hear some fixes. Ive constantly had this problem. Ive always heard a solution is to re buff a couple hours after as this should remove the "gassing" caused by the oils. Or ive heard that you should leave the wax on longer to "out gas" itself. As a problem could be smearing the wax if it hasnt fully cured/dried. Although some waxes you can leave for an hour and come off a breeze and others can be a real PITA. Hope someone can sort it for you. Ill keep an eye on this thread though since its been happening to me. Also maybe try using multiple MFs when buffing. Good luck mate.


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## Boothy (Aug 19, 2010)

The last time I applyed it I kept che king the applicator on the glass and it was only just leaving a smear so its as thin as a pubic hair! 
Tried rebuffing too agter a wash but still doesn't help.


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

also to add to my post what dan said is correct. less is more with wax. always apply as thin as possible.


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## Dan J (Jun 18, 2008)

high humidity will play a part in your problem Babalu826 apply the wax thinner and do a panel at a time as it says on the back to buff before it completely dries.


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

are you using MFs that were washed before? maybe they are clogged with detergent or wax that hasn't been washed out? i wish i knew the answer. its very frustrating as its happening to me.


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

Dan J said:


> high humidity will play a part in your problem Babalu826 apply the wax thinner and do a panel at a time as it says on the back to buff before it completely dries.


thats what i thought. but i contacted dodo about this happening to SN when i used it. Their answer was to leave it cure for 45 min to 1 hour. on the tub i believe it says 20 minutes.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

You could try 'spit shine' method?


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## Dan J (Jun 18, 2008)

Babalu826 said:


> thats what i thought. but i contacted dodo about this happening to SN when i used it. Their answer was to leave it cure for 45 min to 1 hour. on the tub i believe it says 20 minutes.


 it recommends leaving for around 10mins on the tub but 20/30 mins to cure is normally good enough but it will be longer in the states as the humidity is alot higher than here in the uk which slowes down the curing time for the wax.


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

Dan J said:


> it recommends leaving for around 10mins on the tub but 20/30 mins to cure is normally good enough but it will be longer in the states as the humidity is alot higher than here in the uk which slowes down the curing time for the wax.


Thats a good point. But i dont believe he knew i was in the U.S. That was just his advice. said you have to allow the wax to (out gas) itself. and said buff twice and it will be fine. Ive always noticed some qd would sort it. was hazing isnt really a big problem as its easily fixed. more or less an annoyance.


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## Boothy (Aug 19, 2010)

Fresh Mf's everytime mate. Tried longer cure times too but the tub says not to allow it to dry completely. I have however tried buffing in a few minutes and upto fifteen minutes after.


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

Maybe give it a try buffing after a bit longer? I think the biggest help would be to buff again after an hour or 2 later (if time allows). This also may not be possible if your detailing outside as contaminants could find its way onto the paint.


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## Patrickm (May 27, 2011)

*?????*

Hi hope you don't mind me butting in?

I noticed you were having problems with holograms what compound did you use?

Has the car had any paint since you got it or do you know of any being done before you got it?

Are you able to catch it on a Pic and post it on here?

I have various anti-hologram polishes which I have just put a post up for looking for testers, if your interested let me know by PM?

I also noticed that you are based in Wakefield which isn't that far from my HQ where I am this week, If you don't have the confidence to do it yourself you can nip it in to me weds or thurs this week and I have a look at it and either advise on what to do or if its a quickie we can sort it for you?

Again sorry for butting in

Regards
Pat


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

Don't mind at all sir. All input is welcome. I don't know about his hologram ing but mine is from the wax not polish. Just hazing up. Wish I was near to give the polish a try :/


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## Bulkhead (Oct 17, 2007)

Regarding the leaving of wax for longer before buffing, if you leave Vic's Concours for more than 10 - 15 mins it is an absolute pig to remove.


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

Bulkhead said:


> Regarding the leaving of wax for longer before buffing, if you leave Vic's Concours for more than 10 - 15 mins it is an absolute pig to remove.


Yea thats the only problem. It cant be that hard if its applied very thin?


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

instead of trying a QD or a wash with shampoo which can sometimes only intimidate certain waxes just try deionised water, on ice as this can quickly reduce the surface temperature of the wax and effectively instantly cure....use loads of fresh MF cloths that are not too fluffy as i find that these tend to wallow in product after just a couple of swipes....either Scholl Grey MF or the Swissvax Micro Fluffy are my preferred at the minute, expensive but you get what you pay for....also try and get hold of a Swissvax Micropolish cloth....if this fails mate just strip it back and apply something different.....

HTH


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

op must be doing something massively wrong, vic's red is probably the easiest wax ever to use


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## Boothy (Aug 19, 2010)

Maxolen UK said:


> Hi hope you don't mind me butting in?
> 
> I noticed you were having problems with holograms what compound did you use?
> 
> ...


Howdy Pat.

I believe the only part of the car to have been repainted was the bonnet as it got keyed a few year back but the car recently wen to VW for the wings and boot to be repaired due to some rust believe it or not. So they will also have been painted.
I'm fairly confident that the hologrammes are from the wax as I can see the direction of the fine marks change when I go over them with a MF?
A second opinion, especially one from somebody who knows what they are talking about is always welcome. I'm happy to pop over to you at some point this morning or tomorrow if the offer is still open.

I've sent this via PM to you too mate.


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## Boothy (Aug 19, 2010)

msb said:


> op must be doing something massively wrong, vic's red is probably the easiest wax ever to use


I'd be inclined to agree but there ain't that much to do wrong for applying wax is there? Spread thin, haze, buff?

It does come off very easy indeed but the problem is that its leaving some oily residue behind that won't buff off. This is only noticeable in STRONG direct sunlight so it may be you are suffering the same issue and just haven't caught a glimpse of it yet. 
Or, other hologrammes in the paint are covering the fact.?


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## Boothy (Aug 19, 2010)

Reflectology said:


> instead of trying a QD or a wash with shampoo which can sometimes only intimidate certain waxes just try deionised water, on ice as this can quickly reduce the surface temperature of the wax and effectively instantly cure....use loads of fresh MF cloths that are not too fluffy as i find that these tend to wallow in product after just a couple of swipes....either Scholl Grey MF or the Swissvax Micro Fluffy are my preferred at the minute, expensive but you get what you pay for....also try and get hold of a Swissvax Micropolish cloth....if this fails mate just strip it back and apply something different.....
> 
> HTH


Thanks for the pointers bud and i'll have a look at some short pile MF's. Saying that I have already applied my old faithful Coli 845 to half the car now as it was doing my nut in, lol.


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

Is it possible that you don't rinse properly your MF when you wash them? I had some similar issue in the past.


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## ClioToby (Oct 22, 2009)

Too much wax, or the wax is gassing (run round the car with a clean MF after a few hours) or your drying towels are the problem.


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## Boothy (Aug 19, 2010)

Looking at some new cloths now - Zaino ones look pretty good value?


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

Boothy said:


> Looking at some new cloths now - Zaino ones look pretty good value?


PB mega deluxe towel are perfect for buffing wax.
I've got the gold version of Zaino towel and i don't like very much. I don't know if white ones are better.


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

Whilst I generally don't comment on threads regarding products we don't stock, this sounds like a regular case of wax hologramming. 

The wax is gassing and the oils within the wax are sitting on the paint surface causing the hologramming effect; higher carnauba content waxes, in my experience are more prone to this and it's perfectly normal. 

Wash the car in cool conditions to remove the excess oils and this problem should be eliminated.


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## Boothy (Aug 19, 2010)

John @ PB said:


> Whilst I generally don't comment on threads regarding products we don't stock, this sounds like a regular case of wax hologramming.
> 
> The wax is gassing and the oils within the wax are sitting on the paint surface causing the hologramming effect; higher carnauba content waxes, in my experience are more prone to this and it's perfectly normal.
> 
> Wash the car in cool conditions to remove the excess oils and this problem should be eliminated.


Thanks for the advice John.


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## maesal (Nov 24, 2005)

Also, you could try misting cold water and wiping it with a towel, it should work.


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## ilovepooma (Nov 3, 2009)

I'm on my 4th application of Vics and I think I've finally sussed the technique (for me).

Spread it is thin as humanly possible, I found a cheapo foam applicator was best in my case then for removal use a fresh *thin* MF for every panel, I initially used a chunky, high quality one but this clogged up very easily, I now use a cheapo Kent MF and it comes off like a dream 

HTH


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Boothy said:


> I'd be inclined to agree but there ain't that much to do wrong for applying wax is there? Spread thin, haze, buff?
> 
> It does come off very easy indeed but the problem is that its leaving some oily residue behind that won't buff off. This is only noticeable in STRONG direct sunlight so it may be you are suffering the same issue and just haven't caught a glimpse of it yet.
> Or, other hologrammes in the paint are covering the fact.?


nope never had a problem on mine or the partners car and they are both dark blue and been waxed many times without problems, tbh if you think vic's is tricky try some migliore frutta blend:thumb:


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

I had a problem similar to this and on a red as well, what i did was wash the car again dry it and apply the wax to the cold surface and the problem disapeared.

I always wash my cars after machine polishing rather than an IPA or panel wipe over as there is always dust in checks and polish splatter on plastics and find it always helps remove any excess from correction and leave a nice surface to apply the wax to.


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

John @ PB said:


> Whilst I generally don't comment on threads regarding products we don't stock, this sounds like a regular case of wax hologramming.
> 
> The wax is gassing and the oils within the wax are sitting on the paint surface causing the hologramming effect; higher carnauba content waxes, in my experience are more prone to this and it's perfectly normal.
> 
> Wash the car in cool conditions to remove the excess oils and this problem should be eliminated.


John ive tried washing it to remove the oils and it usually doesnt work. do you think humidity plays a roll in gassing?


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

Babalu826 said:


> John ive tried washing it to remove the oils and it usually doesnt work. do you think humidity plays a roll in gassing?


It might do as there'll be moisture in the atmosphere and potentially on the paint surface as you apply the wax.

What type of wax are you working with and what type of shampoo? What do you apply to the surface before applying the wax? Pre-Wax Cleaner, IPA?

Could you tell me a little more about your application process too (how much wax, how large an area you apply to at a time, curing time, types of pads/towels)


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

John @ PB said:


> It might do as there'll be moisture in the atmosphere and potentially on the paint surface as you apply the wax.
> 
> What type of wax are you working with and what type of shampoo? What do you apply to the surface before applying the wax? Pre-Wax Cleaner, IPA?
> 
> Could you tell me a little more about your application process too (how much wax, how large an area you apply to at a time, curing time, types of pads/towels)


The waxes ive seen it happen to are my SN, Glasur and once to my colly 915. the shampoo i use is meguiars #62 shampoo/conditioner. Ive tried different ways in prepping the surface. Ive done just an IPA wipe down then applied the wax. Also, sometimes i used the p21s paint cleansing lotion as this is my favorite one. 
When applying the wax i tend to go by the directions on the tub. When using glasur i do panel by panel. Ive tried buffing it before completely dry (like they recommend) and ive tried letting it fully cure, like 15 minutes. When using supernatural they recommend 10-15 min i believe. DDJ recommended leaving SN on for 45-1 hour to let it "out gas", which i havent tried yet. 
The pads i use are ccs red foam applicators.
I have a bunch of diff towels, i have some cobra microfiber and blue all purpose microfiber. When it comes to wax removal does it really matter if using a all purpose microfiber or a wax specific one? both have a short pile, right?  
Also, if it matters i use micro-restore microfiber detergent to clean them.


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## Patrickm (May 27, 2011)

Boothy said:


> Howdy Pat.
> 
> I believe the only part of the car to have been repainted was the bonnet as it got keyed a few year back but the car recently wen to VW for the wings and boot to be repaired due to some rust believe it or not. So they will also have been painted.
> I'm fairly confident that the hologrammes are from the wax as I can see the direction of the fine marks change when I go over them with a MF?
> ...


Replied to your message just give me a holo when you want to call in :lol:

Sorry couldn't resist

Thanks
Pat


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

Babalu826 said:


> The waxes ive seen it happen to are my SN, Glasur and once to my colly 915. the shampoo i use is meguiars #62 shampoo/conditioner. Ive tried different ways in prepping the surface. Ive done just an IPA wipe down then applied the wax. Also, sometimes i used the p21s paint cleansing lotion as this is my favorite one.
> When applying the wax i tend to go by the directions on the tub. When using glasur i do panel by panel. Ive tried buffing it before completely dry (like they recommend) and ive tried letting it fully cure, like 15 minutes. When using supernatural they recommend 10-15 min i believe. DDJ recommended leaving SN on for 45-1 hour to let it "out gas", which i havent tried yet.
> The pads i use are ccs red foam applicators.
> I have a bunch of diff towels, i have some cobra microfiber and blue all purpose microfiber. When it comes to wax removal does it really matter if using a all purpose microfiber or a wax specific one? both have a short pile, right?
> Also, if it matters i use micro-restore microfiber detergent to clean them.


Difficult for me to say for sure as of the products you mention, I've only used the Collinite.

Generally speaking, I'd be inclined to use a smaller, flat pad to apply - something like the Meguiar's yellow foam; I find being thinner, it's easier to pick up just a whisper layer of wax.

Sticking to the manufacturer's recommendations is best, but if in any doubt, I'd always buff off sooner rahter than later but you're doing this too.

Could it be (and this is a complete guess as I've never used it) that the conditioning agents in your shampoo are causing streaking on the surface? Some shampoos I've tried have streaked quite badly and it does look a bit like hologramming. If the shampoo contains a high polymer concentration, this could be a factor; a bit like applying a sealant over a wax where you see an oily film on the paint surface.

With higher carnauba waxes, I've found hologramming to be more prevalent and more so when the sun hits the panel so this might also be a factor.

Short pile towels are best but again, this is what you're using.

If it's possible to capture the hologramming in a photo, that'd maybe help to work out what's going on.


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

John when i capture a shot of it should i pm you or just post it on here? and thank you for the help in advance.


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

John @ PB said:


> Difficult for me to say for sure as of the products you mention, I've only used the Collinite.
> 
> Generally speaking, I'd be inclined to use a smaller, flat pad to apply - something like the Meguiar's yellow foam; I find being thinner, it's easier to pick up just a whisper layer of wax.
> 
> ...


I wonder if it is the shampoo? problem is i cant remember if it happened before i switched to the meg. I wouldnt think this would interfere as im using a cleaner after the wash ( wouldnt this get any streaking off the paint). What shampoos would you suggest?


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

Just post here; my PMs are switched off.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Sorry I'm late to the party, but ditto: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=226317

I think a lot has to do with not using enough cloths for my part.


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## country boy (Feb 21, 2011)

I had this problem with dodo purple haze so went back to some old Megs NXT tech2 that i had and have'nt had the problem since. Can you still get hologramming with sealants,maybe there the way to go ??


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

country boy said:


> I had this problem with dodo purple haze so went back to some old Megs NXT tech2 that i had and have'nt had the problem since. Can you still get hologramming with sealants,maybe there the way to go ??


Nope, never had a halogramming issue with a sealant. I dont think its possible as they dont contain carnauba


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## Boothy (Aug 19, 2010)

2 x Swissvax micro polishing towels and 3 x Poorboys deluxe towels ordered courtesy of Polished Bliss. Hopefully this will sort it out and all my old ones have just had a double wash.


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## Arden Vxr (Dec 14, 2010)

very noob question what is hologramming??

why do u get it?? and how?? what does it look like??


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

Arden Vxr said:


> very noob question what is hologramming??
> 
> why do u get it?? and how?? what does it look like??


Have a look http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=46121


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## ClioToby (Oct 22, 2009)

Boothy said:


> Looking at some new cloths now - Zaino ones look pretty good value?


PB Ultra Plush Yello things (£11 each) or nothing IMO.

I had issues for a year or so with Der Wunder Waffle Drying towels, had a black clio at the time and it caused havoc with my paintwork. Wasnt so much the wax gassing - Never had holograms after application, only after washing and drying the car again.

You decide if your cloths need changing or not. Ive always used Eurow Shags to buff wax, theyre not the best by any means but they do the job well. And a bulk pack is always there when I think my towels are getting a bit old.

Alternativly, wax the car, buff, then go back round the car again with a clean towel and buff each pannel. Leave it in the sun for a while and see if it gasses again, if it does just go back round the car.

I once polished a blue 3 series, spent about 2 days on it. Went over the car with (I think BOS) and it had terrible holograms. I shat myself and thought id made a right **** poor job with the polishing, buffed the pannels and all was good.


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

ClioToby said:


> PB Ultra Plush Yello things (£11 each) or nothing IMO.
> 
> I had issues for a year or so with Der Wunder Waffle Drying towels, had a black clio at the time and it caused havoc with my paintwork. Wasnt so much the wax gassing - Never had holograms after application, only after washing and drying the car again.
> 
> ...


I go back over mine a second time to but im afraid to leave it out in the sun as it may collect dust, pollutants, etc. Then to buff the paint with these possibly on it could scratch the car. Im definitely gunna start looking for new towels


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## ClioToby (Oct 22, 2009)

I always run a towel (usually the one ive just used) over the car lightly to remove dust.


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

John @ PB said:


> Just post here; my PMs are switched off.
> 
> [/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

I've had this exact same problem before and it's really annoying when it happens. I normally keep a separate extra plush like the Dodo Supernatural buffing cloth specifically for doing a second buff a few hours after waxing, this seems to prevent the problem occurring. If wax holograms do occur they normally come off during the first wash so its not the end of the world.

Those Swissvax Micropolish towels are absolutely brilliant, as there's virtually no pile they don't clog up with wax as badly, if you want one but don't want to pay £11 per cloth Dodo Juice do something similar called the MicroSuede with is available from Elite Car Care at £6.50 for 2 cloths.


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

Thank you for the reply laurie. Ill have to check them out. And when you say frustrating you arent kidding, its terrible seeing it look like that after all the time put in to wax it.


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