# E-Mountain bikes, talk to me please



## danwel

I am in the market for a new mountain hike after spending some time on my cheapo and wanting to get back into it with my kids.

I’ve got a coupe of Hardtails in mind I’m the voodoo Bizango at £650 or the Vitus nucleus at £550. Which either of those will do what I want them to do I’m sure.

I am looking at doing some off road trails and maybe the odd Jump but I’m not mountain hike jumper or rider by any stretch.

But here’s why my thinking goes off a bit lol. I am wondering as I’ve heard rave reviews about electric mountain bikes whether I’d be worth spending a bit more, or quite a bit more and get one as I think of I have one I’d use it more and more on a daily basis and use it in between my runs

Any suggestions on what I should buy would be great and what I should be looking at spending because I’ve heard, maybe wrongly that unless you’re spending upwards of £2K there’s no point ??

Thanks


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## kingswood

ring my mate at wilson wheels in beverley. hes electric cubes in at around £1500. thats the min you need to get into a decent one. 

think the das 6 of the ebike range. u can get chinese copies at £800 to £1k but buy cheap and buy twice


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## nbray67

Ahhhhh, Danwel, missed you, sod the bike, did you see the final PL table this season by any chance?


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## danwel

nbray67 said:


> Ahhhhh, Danwel, missed you, sod the bike, did you see the final PL table this season by any chance?


Hello mate, credit where credit is due. You were the best team in the PL by a long way. There I've said it now, please leave me alone lol&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;

I was praying for the season to be scrapped with Covid. I'd happily play Europa league for it &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;


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## danwel

kingswood said:


> ring my mate at wilson wheels in beverley. hes electric cubes in at around £1500. thats the min you need to get into a decent one.
> 
> think the das 6 of the ebike range. u can get chinese copies at £800 to £1k but buy cheap and buy twice


Thanks mate, a few people have said that you need around the 2k mark orbits not worth buying. I want one big deffo don't want to be spending 3/4K upwards


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## GeeWhizRS

If you are fairly handy, have a look at the Bafang BBS02 kits. They're great fun.


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## danwel

GeeWhizRS said:


> If you are fairly handy, have a look at the Bafang BBS02 kits. They're great fun.


Thanks, they look interesting. I do still need a decent bike first to put it onto but certainly good for thought as I've got a couple of mates I could call upon


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## GeeWhizRS

If you are 'off-roading' you can go for a higher wattage than the 250w limit for the road. :thumb:


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## Kerr

There is talk of the government offering incentives to buy ebikes. The suggestion was 1/3 off.


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## danwel

Kerr said:


> There is talk of the government offering incentives to buy ebikes. The suggestion was 1/3 off.


I'll have to keep an eye out for that and see if there is a way to get one via that scheme


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## Deathstar

To be honest if you have no health issues I would recommend that you get a half decent full suss at your price point.
An ebike for a novice will be too heavy to control on the decent, going up yes it will be easier however why be assisted when you can get fitter. 
You have to remember components will be compromised to meet a certain price point.

I would recommend you visit your LBS (Local Bike Shop) and have a good chat with them, and buy from them. 
A note of caution, most bike shops have sold out of their 2020 models with the mad lockdown rush and deals will be limited for 2021 models that will be just slowly coming into the shops.


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## Andy from Sandy

Don't try and ride it round your courtyard until you have read the instructions!


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## RS3

There are the ride to work schemes some companies sign up to. Allows me to buy a bike with interest free monthly payments taken from my wage before I pay income tax (lowering my taxable income).
https://www.cyclesolutions.info/
Thinking of getting an ebike myself.


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## Kerr

RS3 said:


> There are the ride to work schemes some companies sign up to. Allows me to buy a bike with interest free monthly payments taken from my wage before I pay income tax (lowering my taxable income).
> https://www.cyclesolutions.info/
> Thinking of getting an ebike myself.


It's the terms and conditions of the cycle to work schemes that annoy me.

At the end of the year you have the choice to buy the bike at 25% of the original price if it was over £500, hand it back making it an expensive hire, or lease the bike for free for another 5 years.

There is no obligation to pass ownership of the bike to you.

All the schemes advertise that you'll save a fortune, but they don't tell you the exit plan and right of ownership isn't straightforward.

You're having the total amount of the bike deducted from your salary. There shouldn't be this grey area about ownership after the year is out.


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## Cookies

Kerr said:


> It's the terms and conditions of the cycle to work schemes that annoy me.
> 
> At the end of the year you have the choice to buy the bike at 25% of the original price if it was over £500, hand it back making it an expensive hire, or lease the bike for free for another 5 years.
> 
> There is no obligation to pass ownership of the bike to you.
> 
> All the schemes advertise that you'll save a fortune, but they don't tell you the exit plan and right of ownership isn't straightforward.
> 
> You're having the total amount of the bike deducted from your salary. There shouldn't be this grey area about ownership after the year is out.


Kerr,

From my reading,, the 25% notional value after 12 months is simply there to establish the Benefit in Kind amount for tax purposes. That's how my employer treats it.

Edited - just had a read at some of the GB guidance, and it appears as though the scheme from my employer in NI is slightly different from some of those over in Scotland and England, so you are absolutely right re the cost/options at the end of the period.

Cheers

Niall

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## kingswood

Had to pay £20 for mine a few years ago after the scheme?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## transtek

kingswood said:


> ring my mate at wilson wheels in beverley. hes electric cubes in at around £1500. thats the min you need to get into a decent one.
> 
> think the das 6 of the ebike range. u can get chinese copies at £800 to £1k but buy cheap and buy twice


I know it's off topic, but it is an incredibly small world! That bike shop on Grovehill Road is where I always bought my bikes and components as a kid, in the 70's and 80's!!:thumb:


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## kingswood

transtek said:


> I know it's off topic, but it is an incredibly small world! That bike shop on Grovehill Road is where I always bought my bikes and components as a kid, in the 70's and 80's!!:thumb:


thats the one! think when he bought it in 2010 they was still some stuff on the shelves from the 80's!


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## Kerr

Cookies said:


> Kerr,
> 
> From my reading,, the 25% notional value after 12 months is simply there to establish the Benefit in Kind amount for tax purposes. That's how my employer treats it.
> 
> Edited - just had a read at some of the GB guidance, and it appears as though the scheme from my employer in NI is slightly different from some of those over in Scotland and England, so you are absolutely right re the cost/options at the end of the period.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Niall
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


They are all very similar over here. This one is the same percentage to buy after the year, or 3-7% to hire the bike for another 3 years.

https://help.cyclescheme.co.uk/article/42-what-is-an-ownership-fee

I don't understand the reasoning for it. You are having the total amount for the bike deducted from your salary. The savings are only genuine if you own it. The headline savings of 40%+ aren't that simple.

Another thing I was reading was signing up for a new bike. If your company has a £1000 limit you can only have £1000 in total. Say you get an £800 mountain bike this year, if you extend the lease to keep the bike and avoid the 25% purchase price, you can only claim £200 the next year if you want a 2nd bike.

You're tied to the bike and tied to working for the same company.

I got a bike a few years ago through my work. I've never heard anything after the year. I believe that was the same for everyone else that has used our scheme. However, spending £3000 on a nice e-bike I'm not sure I'd want all the terms and conditions hanging over the ownership.

The scheme should be for ownership.

Hopefully the government scheme they are talking about is purchase for ownership.


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## vsideboy

I've got a none electric Voodoo mate and can't fault it, had it about 6 years now, faultless.


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## packard

Cookies said:


> Kerr,
> 
> From my reading,, the 25% notional value after 12 months is simply there to establish the Benefit in Kind amount for tax purposes. That's how my employer treats it.
> 
> Edited - just had a read at some of the GB guidance, and it appears as though the scheme from my employer in NI is slightly different from some of those over in Scotland and England, so you are absolutely right re the cost/options at the end of the period.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Niall
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


I have the same scheme, I will own it outright at the end of it. 
My better half does admin on this for her Company.

I'm tempted to buy either road bike or e bike..


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## vsideboy

I did the cycle to work scheme for this current bike and didn't really see a problem with it, pay a percentage of the total each month (pre tax) then at the end you pay whatever is left I think that's how I did it. been a while now though so apologies if I'm wrong. 
So in essence you're saving the money on not paying the tax on that sum of money in my understanding, so not paying tax on your new bike.


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## danwel

vsideboy said:


> I've got a none electric Voodoo mate and can't fault it, had it about 6 years now, faultless.


Yeah heard good things about the voodoo bike I mentioned as it got mtb Hardtail of the year in the upto £750 category


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## danwel

Deathstar said:


> To be honest if you have no health issues I would recommend that you get a half decent full suss at your price point.
> An ebike for a novice will be too heavy to control on the decent, going up yes it will be easier however why be assisted when you can get fitter.
> You have to remember components will be compromised to meet a certain price point.
> 
> I would recommend you visit your LBS (Local Bike Shop) and have a good chat with them, and buy from them.
> A note of caution, most bike shops have sold out of their 2020 models with the mad lockdown rush and deals will be limited for 2021 models that will be just slowly coming into the shops.


Yeah that's a good suggestion, I aren't set on an E-Bike and was just giving it some thought.

No health issues at present lol


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## vsideboy

danwel said:


> Yeah heard good things about the voodoo bike I mentioned as it got mtb Hardtail of the year in the upto £750 category


Yeah got the Bokor a while back and even in Matt White paint it still hasn't been that annoying, paint still looks good and not yellowed.

Personally after having a full suspension in the past and now having the front suspension only I would not go back to full suspension again, if you're ever going to ride it uphill or on roads then it's a pain in the neck as the bounce of the rear suspension definitely absorbs some of your pedal power (might just have been the specific bike that I had in the past but definitely noticed the difference when going back to hardtail mate.)

Each to their own though.

EDIT: Blimey 2011, longer than I thought!
https://www.thebikelist.co.uk/voodoo/bokor--2011

Only thing I've needed to change has been the seat and the hand grips (The white grips did end up going yellow but the new grips have lasted really well, can't think what they are right now though).


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## danwel

vsideboy said:


> Yeah got the Bokor a while back and even in Matt White paint it still hasn't been that annoying, paint still looks good and not yellowed.
> 
> Personally after having a full suspension in the past and now having the front suspension only I would not go back to full suspension again, if you're ever going to ride it uphill or on roads then it's a pain in the neck as the bounce of the rear suspension definitely absorbs some of your pedal power (might just have been the specific bike that I had in the past but definitely noticed the difference when going back to hardtail mate.)
> 
> Each to their own though.
> 
> EDIT: Blimey 2011, longer than I thought!
> https://www.thebikelist.co.uk/voodoo/bokor--2011
> 
> Only thing I've needed to change has been the seat and the hand grips (The white grips did end up going yellow but the new grips have lasted really well, can't think what they are right now though).


To be honest I borrowed my brother full suspension bike and rode on a track with my oldest and I wasn't a fan. Even with the rear supposedly locked out it bounced too much for my liking.

The voodoo Bizango is the one I'm looking at and it's £650 I'm Halfords and they usually have sales and as I'm not in a great rush I may hold out for a discount. That and the fact finding one I may struggle with


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## vsideboy

looks good mate, nice review on mbr too.


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## danwel

vsideboy said:


> looks good mate, nice review on mbr too.


Yeah I've just read it again and watched the video. I've even found one I'm my size local !!!

It will be typical I buy it and then there will be a sale and get 10% or more off lol


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## vsideboy

haha can't live life on a what if mate, otherwise you never do anything.

What if I never found this forum....I'd have more time, money and half a shed of spare space than I do currently haha but my car would look like a piece of crap!


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## danwel

vsideboy said:


> haha can't live life on a what if mate, otherwise you never do anything.
> 
> What if I never found this forum....I'd have more time, money and half a shed of spare space than I do currently haha but my car would look like a piece of crap!


This is very true lol. I'm hovering over the buy it now button lol

Just trying to decide what size I need as I'm 188cm so toying with 20 which is 180-190 or 22 which is 190-200cm


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## muzzer

I've got a Hoodoo and whilst i wish i had gone full sus, it does me for the use i put it to - mostly cycleways with the odd off road thrown in.

They are great bikes considering the price - i think i got it in a sale from Halfords for £400 and it's up over £600 now i think - and the only bits i've changed are the grips. Bizarrely, considering it looks like a knife edge, the saddle is very very comfy for me and i can ride for a good few hours on it before starting to get sore.

Back on topic, i've thought about an ebike but the trouble is i like those Ozzy ones, are they called B-52? They do one that is ridiculously powerful and can do something silly like about 50mph :doublesho

https://stealthelectricbikes.com/stealth-b-52/


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## vsideboy

Providing that your knees still function then you're rarely sitting down while going downhill anyway so your knees do the suspension thing for your body and the back wheel does what it wants regardless of the rear suspension or not so might as well save the hassle and go hard tail.


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## danwel

Decided that I’m not quite ready to spend £2k on an e bike just yet.

Struggled for sizes and delivery times on both bikes mentioned in first post but did finally get an email notification for the Vitus Nucleus so I bought it and just waiting for delivery now


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## vsideboy

well as long as you're not planning on being a showboating crowd pleaser mate the reviews look good. Enjoy pal.


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## kingswood

danwel said:


> Decided that I'm not quite ready to spend £2k on an e bike just yet.
> 
> Struggled for sizes and delivery times on both bikes mentioned in first post but did finally get an email notification for the Vitus Nucleus so I bought it and just waiting for delivery now


looks a fair bit of kit. and won MTB bike of the year, <£500.

buy and enjoy it but dont start upgrading. see this regularly as people get a taste for biking.

the frame will never justify any better equipemnt


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## vsideboy

kingswood said:


> looks a fair bit of kit. and won MTB bike of the year, <£500.
> 
> buy and enjoy it but dont start upgrading. see this regularly as people get a taste for biking.
> 
> the frame will never justify any better equipemnt


Other than the grips and saddle probably.

As mentioned the white grips on my voodoo went a bit yellow eventually and I found they were a little slippery when they got wet, replacement ones are black and excellent in the wet. Old now though so expect there to be others in the top 10 list these days.


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## Ducky

danwel said:


> Decided that I'm not quite ready to spend £2k on an e bike just yet.
> 
> Struggled for sizes and delivery times on both bikes mentioned in first post but did finally get an email notification for the Vitus Nucleus so I bought it and just waiting for delivery now


You won't be disappointed! I did a lot of research for around that budget, and ended up buying the Nucleus for my wife at Christmas, she loves it! :thumb:


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## vsideboy

think these are very similar to mine. well worth the price. https://www.wiggle.co.uk/lizard-skins-northshore-lock-on-handlebar-grips


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## danwel

Ducky said:


> You won't be disappointed! I did a lot of research for around that budget, and ended up buying the Nucleus for my wife at Christmas, she loves it! :thumb:


Yeah i did the sae thing and this seemed to come out very very well year after year but glad to know that someone else has the same idea


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## danwel

kingswood said:


> looks a fair bit of kit. and won MTB bike of the year, <£500.
> 
> buy and enjoy it but dont start upgrading. see this regularly as people get a taste for biking.
> 
> the frame will never justify any better equipemnt


Yeah i think that is fantastic advice and only thing i have bought is pedals and maybe a dropper post but for the money it looks a very good bike


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## LeadFarmer

I've been commuting on my Cube Reaction Race ebike for the last three years, love it. Changed to Schwalbe Big Ben tyres for road use, added a rear rack and bag to carry work stuff, and derestricted it...


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## danwel

LeadFarmer said:


> I've been commuting on my Cube Reaction Race ebike for the last three years, love it. Changed to Schwalbe Big Ben tyres for road use, added a rear rack and bag to carry work stuff, and derestricted it...


I like that a lot, what does de restricting it achieve as much friend was in about that this morning ?


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## Kerr

LeadFarmer said:


> I've been commuting on my Cube Reaction Race ebike for the last three years, love it. Changed to Schwalbe Big Ben tyres for road use, added a rear rack and bag to carry work stuff, and derestricted it...


Still a 250w motor? How fast does it help you cycle along at?


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## garage_dweller

Should be 15.5mph as ebikes are restricted, get to that speed at the motor cuts out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kerr

garage_dweller said:


> Should be 15.5mph as ebikes are restricted, get to that speed at the motor cuts out.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


From my understanding you can buy a chip to override the limit on some of the motors. They aren't cheap though.

I read that the latest Bosch motor car be unlocked in the settings?

15.5mph is a little too slow.


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## garage_dweller

Kerr said:


> From my understanding you can buy a chip to override the limit on some of the motors. They aren't cheap though.
> 
> I read that the latest Bosch motor car be unlocked in the settings?
> 
> 15.5mph is a little too slow.


Yes depending the motor you would either need a chip to derestrict it or the sensor can be fooled by moving the speed magnet on simpler motors.

Modern motors have the restriction built into the software but the user couldn't tweak the setting, would need to be plugged into to the appropriate kit.

I'd agree 15.5 is pretty slow, but then again the motor is only to assist, if people using ebikes feel the need to go faster then they could just pedal harder 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kerr

garage_dweller said:


> Yes depending the motor you would either need a chip to derestrict it or the sensor can be fooled by moving the speed magnet on simpler motors.
> 
> Modern motors have the restriction built into the software but the user couldn't tweak the setting, would need to be plugged into to the appropriate kit.
> 
> I'd agree 15.5 is pretty slow, but then again the motor is only to assist, if people using ebikes feel the need to go faster then they could just pedal harder
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, but you've got a heavy bike to drag along.

I want a bike that pedals for me. :lol:


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## LeadFarmer

garage_dweller said:


> I'd agree 15.5 is pretty slow, but then again the motor is only to assist, if people using ebikes feel the need to go faster then they could just pedal harder


Not necessarily, with my Bosch motor, when it turns off at 15mph there is a lot of resistance in the motor when pedalling, so much so that you have to change to a really low gear to try and maintain the speed. Its called the treacle effect. Your speed ends up dropping and then the motor kicks in but you then go over 15mph and it turns off etc.... Later model Bosch motor don't have this resistance.

I've fitted a derestricter to keep the motor on until 30mph. It fits over the speed sensor and tricks the motor into thinking your doing half the speed that you are actually doing. It unclips in seconds if you need to remove it.


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## fatdazza

You need an alcohol powered bike


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## LeadFarmer

Kerr said:


> Still a 250w motor? How fast does it help you cycle along at?


The derestricter just prevents the motor from turning off at 15mph, so you have assistance from the motor up to 30mph.

The 11 speed gearing on my bike doesn't really cater for 30mph+ speeds, so it's not really about achieving high speeds, its more about keeping the assistance on throughout the ride.

The derestricter can't be used on public highways.


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## Kerr

fatdazza said:


> You need an alcohol powered bike


That sounds fast.


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## fatdazza

It is - four pints of milk stout and pedal bl00dy hard :lol:


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## Kerr

LeadFarmer said:


> The derestricter just prevents the motor from turning off at 15mph, so you have assistance from the motor up to 30mph.
> 
> The 11 speed gearing on my bike doesn't really cater for 30mph+ speeds, so it's not really about achieving high speeds, its more about keeping the assistance on throughout the ride.


How much has your average speed increased taking the limit off?

The gearing on my bikes is too short as well. I was thinking of converting one of my bikes over, but I need taller gearing. Again over 30mph my legs can't keep up.


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## garage_dweller

One of my neighbours, retired engineer, built an ebike from an old mtb with a load of ebike bits from China strapped to it. He's recovering from cancer so wanted to get out and do some exercise but have some help.

He gave me a shot and this thing is mental, as soon as you start pedalling this thing just shoots off and you hang on for dear life 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LeadFarmer

Kerr said:


> How much has your average speed increased taking the limit off?
> 
> The gearing on my bikes is too short as well. I was thinking of converting one of my bikes over, but I need taller gearing. Again over 30mph my legs can't keep up.


Hard to say as I don't really monitor my speed when riding. It's just nice to have the motor assisting 100% of the time. I move up & down the assist modes depending on what level of assist I want. On an ebike you soon get above 15mph.

My ride home is only five miles but most of that is up some very steep inclines. I try and have the assist as low as I can bear, but nice to crank it up when I just can't be bothered anymore 

Its a Badass dongle from Badassebikes.com that I have fitted. £120ish but well worth every penny.


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