# Problems after professional respray!



## Obsessive

Hi folks

Been knocking around here a while but only have a question now, usually find my answers by reading various posts about detailing but now I have an issue I can't find much about hence my first post!

I got a respray carried out on my car about 2months ago, the decision to respray was as a result of some poorly repaired damage that only showed through on the car after I had bought it, the damage was on both rear quarter panels and showed through as lines and ripples on the panels, the body shop I got to carry out the repair to the car said it was sinking of the filler and base on the original repair, so car was stripped and repaired again however in the last few weeks some lines have reappeared on the repaired panel where filler has been used.

I will be going back to the body shop, they are a very reputable company and I'm sure they will look after me but my question is can this problem be actually fixed once and for all? The paint sinkage this time round is minor and appears to be at paint level as opposed to the filler actually sinking as the panels do not appear to be rippled as they were before, the flaws are showing up as lines in the paint particularly around the boundary of the filler, as if the paint has run, there is also one area where the paint is slightly rough to the touch and looks like a rash, again over an area of filler (more severe than orange peel) 

So my questions are, 

1) Is it be possible that the paint can be flattened back and re-sprayed, or will the same happen again, does the sinkage stop at some point?

2) Is the issue just a typical symptom of a filled panel? Can the use of filler actually leave you with a perfect repair at all or will this happen to me again?

Sorry I have no pictures but the car is black (I know bad colour choice!!!) and the photos I took don't show the flaws very well.


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## Mr yella

I expect they will just flat it back and re polish the panel up .


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## SurGie

Sounds like the filler has got some sunkage, maybe there was too much used, i use primer on the panel first then use filler instead of using filler on bare steel. If its been sanded down using water, that can cause problems.

Ask them how they did it first,


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## Obsessive

Cheers guys, I've decided to leave it for a other week or two before contacting the place again just to see if there is any further flaws that show up, hopefully as mentioned they can just flat it back and polish it out!


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## moosh

hey Fella im a panel beater painter to trade and know exactly what you are talking about, what you are seeming is where the primer has sunk into the scratches in the paint work uderneath. Hard to explain but i will have a bash.
Firstly when repairing a dent the correct procedure is to remove all paint which will be below and with in the repair area, reasons for this is filler should be applied ideally to the metal and not paint as it is in effect stuck to the paint and not the metal. Second reason for this is when you rub the filler back whilst repairing your scratches created by the 80 grit paper dig into the surrounding paint. Now most would argue that this could be flattened back and high build primer will take it and that is all very well until the high build sinks into the scratches that havent been taken out of the underlieing paintwork correctly.

Therefore paint should be removed from the repair area and surrounding panels, the paint edge that is now left on the panel i.e. the sanded edge between paint and bare metal can be flattened back using 400 grit paper to blend out the sharp edge and should not have any course sanding marks as a result from the repair.

The repair its self should be ideally finished in 180 grit paper and the top coat of filler should be a polyester smooth finish filler applied, some places use easy type sanding fillers which are softer and therefore can be seen to sink many months or even years later. Typically the repair will look fine for a period of time until all solvents have gone and its not until different suface tempratures occur that the fillers and steel react in different ways and the sinking appears.

I would say the marks you are seeing are in the very first layer of original previous paint and the primer, base coat and clear coat have all sunk into the finer scratches that havent been removed.

The solution is simply flatten back recolour and blend the colour again and clear. 

Hope that helps


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## moosh

Obsessive said:


> Hi folks
> 
> Been knocking around here a while but only have a question now, usually find my answers by reading various posts about detailing but now I have an issue I can't find much about hence my first post!
> 
> I got a respray carried out on my car about 2months ago, the decision to respray was as a result of some poorly repaired damage that only showed through on the car after I had bought it, the damage was on both rear quarter panels and showed through as lines and ripples on the panels, the body shop I got to carry out the repair to the car said it was sinking of the filler and base on the original repair, so car was stripped and repaired again however in the last few weeks some lines have reappeared on the repaired panel where filler has been used.
> 
> I will be going back to the body shop, they are a very reputable company and I'm sure they will look after me but my question is can this problem be actually fixed once and for all? The paint sinkage this time round is minor and appears to be at paint level as opposed to the filler actually sinking as the panels do not appear to be rippled as they were before, the flaws are showing up as lines in the paint particularly around the boundary of the filler, as if the paint has run, there is also one area where the paint is slightly rough to the touch and looks like a rash, again over an area of filler (more severe than orange peel)
> 
> So my questions are,
> 
> 1) Is it be possible that the paint can be flattened back and re-sprayed, or will the same happen again, does the sinkage stop at some point? - Yes this is the solution, it should not reapear
> 
> 2) Is the issue just a typical symptom of a filled panel? Can the use of filler actually leave you with a perfect repair at all or will this happen to me again? - This is symptoms of poor paint prep and not down to the repair itself
> 
> Sorry I have no pictures but the car is black (I know bad colour choice!!!) and the photos I took don't show the flaws very well.


 - I have seen lots of this and repaired lots of it as well and sadly i bought a car from a main dealer, looked perfect on collection sadly the repairs have appeared on mine same as you have described


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## moosh

SurGie said:


> Sounds like the filler has got some sunkage, maybe there was too much used, i use primer on the panel first then use filler instead of using filler on bare steel. If its been sanded down using water, that can cause problems.
> 
> Ask them how they did it first,


I would assume you are not in the motor trade? Sorry to sound like an a55 but the above is incorrect, might work for you but not the way its taught.


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## Andyb0127

I'd agree exactly with what moosh said, all repairs should be on baremetal not over paint, that's not how filler is designed to be used.
The repairs we do at work will all be taken back to baremetal, plastic padding GALVA/ULTIMA will be used first, sanded with p80 once this is close to the right shape we will give it a final skim which will be dolphin glaze, which is a polyester filler, then sanded with p180 leaving a smooth finish, paint edges will be blocked rather than orbital sanded.

You could flat it and polish it, but my guess is that yes they will disappear but after a while they will appear again, as moosh said I'd opt for them flatting it and painting it again.
Or ask how they repaired it, it may be a case of they have blocked it then primed it rather than do the repair again, not saying they have but thats another option to look at, with black it's not a forgiving colour and any wrong prepping/repairs will stick out like a sore thumb :thumb:


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## Andyb0127

moosh said:


> - I have seen lots of this and repaired lots of it as well and sadly i bought a car from a main dealer, looked perfect on collection sadly the repairs have appeared on mine same as you have described


Same here seems to be an all to familiar problem, we do loads of re-works where the paint/repair has been pretty poor. :thumb:


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## squiggs

Andyb0127 said:


> I'd agree exactly with what moosh said, all repairs should be on baremetal not over paint, that's not how filler is designed to be used.
> The repairs we do at work will all be taken back to baremetal, plastic padding GALVA/ULTIMA will be used first, sanded with p80 once this is close to the right shape we will give it a final skim which will be dolphin glaze, which is a polyester filler, then sanded with p180 leaving a smooth finish, paint edges will be blocked rather than orbital sanded.
> 
> You could flat it and polish it, but my guess is that yes they will disappear but after a while they will appear again, as moosh said I'd opt for them flatting it and painting it again.
> Or ask how they repaired it, it may be a case of they have blocked it then primed it rather than do the repair again, not saying they have but thats another option to look at, with black it's not a forgiving colour and any wrong prepping/repairs will stick out like a sore thumb :thumb:


Dead right on blocking rather than orbital :thumb:


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## Obsessive

Thanks for the replies guys, the body shop I used are very experienced and were highly recommended to me by many guys, the cars is quiet expensive so I want it perfect as I'm quiet annoyed that I was hoodwinked by the original dealer (but that's another story). I'll give the car another few weeks just too see if there are further issues to emerge before going back to them but by the sounds of it something was overlooked in the repair process.


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## moosh

squiggs said:


> Dead right on blocking rather than orbital :thumb:


Your dead right, I see the orbital taking over the block and bucket these days which is a shame really because there's a lot of skill goes into paint prep done in the correct professional manner. I think shops are all time related and bonus driven like a conveyor belt of cars... sad really and that's why I left the trade for engineering but still do it most nights and weekend lol


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## OldskoolRS

I've had this happen when I've sprayed cars myself, so now I tend to leave filled areas for a week or so if possible, then rub down (with a block as above). I also leave the filler to fully dry out as it is porous and trapped water won't help the finish/lifetime of the repair. Likewise I leave the primer for a week or so then flat it down, before top coating (again fully dried of water). It's surprising how a 'perfect' fill can be spoilt by shrinking and it only becomes obvious weeks later. 

Being an amateur I have the luxury of time, but since adopting this approach I've not had any issues with sinking filler and I've done a few black/dark cars. I don't know if professional paints and fillers are different to the stuff I use (obviously they've moved on from cellulose that I started out with ), but I suppose they can't have cars sat around for as long as I do between layers/coats of paint. I wonder whether the baking process/modern paints fully compensates for leaving more time between layers?


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## squiggs

Another thing that can cause this problem is force drying the filler with heat and working it before its cooled


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## Obsessive

Cheers again guys, I will go back in a few weeks for them to inspect it, just to recap so I'm not fobbed off my expectation of a perfect finish with no flaws showing through is realistic? Should I stick to my guns that the lines showing through is not acceptable? I noticed one area where there are clearly sanding marks showing through too.


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## Andyb0127

Obsessive said:


> Cheers again guys, I will go back in a few weeks for them to inspect it, just to recap so I'm not fobbed off my expectation of a perfect finish with no flaws showing through is realistic? Should I stick to my guns that the lines showing through is not acceptable? I noticed one area where there are clearly sanding marks showing through too.


Yes mate stick to your guns definatly. There's definatly some sort of problem with that area where it's not been finished right. If this bodyshop goes by there quality and reputation then they should be more than happy to put it right, after all as you said its not a cheap car and I should imagine they've charged you enough for the re-paint.


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## squiggs

Obsessive said:


> Cheers again guys, I will go back in a few weeks for them to inspect it, just to recap so I'm not fobbed off my expectation of a perfect finish with no flaws showing through is realistic? Should I stick to my guns that the lines showing through is not acceptable? I noticed one area where there are clearly sanding marks showing through too.


You should expect the 'human' element of prep and finish to a repair not to show that's the point of having it repaired - outside influences such as a spot of dust in lacquer often can't be avoided - even in the cleanest of workshops. 
I once heard it said that something like 50% of new cars had had some sort of paint repair/rectification before being sold - so if repairs could be seen on those and every other car that had been repaired there wouldn't be many perfect looking cars on the road.
All that said, a repair is just a repair - it's not new, it's no longer a pristine panel and hasn't been sprayed by a robot in a multi million pound sterile factory. 
Often if you know a repair has been made, know where to look, what to look for and look closely enough a repair can be detected. But in your case you've found lines and sanding marks without knowing it had had a repair, so I would say your quite right to get it rectified to the point that under really close scrutiny only the repairer might be able to detect it.


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