# I've hit my limit...



## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

I recently attempted correction of a 5 series. When I say attempted, I mean I worked solid for 2 days and got next to naff all of a result!

There's a lot of background to this that I won't go into, but the upshot is that this one car has made me stop doing 'correction' work and stick to just making car's shiny again. If a friend or relative asks for more then yes, they'll get it, but that's it I'd say.

Granted it was a BMW so had hard paint, plus the car was COVERED in RDS and swirling.... but even using Megs 85 on a cutting pad (for 4 hours alone on the bonnet!) I got little more than the shine back.

There may be a few things going on here... I have missed a trick somewhere and maybe have bad technique, after all 10 out of 10 on the cut scale with a cutting pad really should do more than make a car shiny! However, I've never met this problem before and actually found it quite easy in the past to shift defects from a lot of various cars and paints... so it can't be this - can it?

Does my Kestrel DA have a limit on what it can do?

Have I got the wrong polishes? (Britemax have only ever failed me with this one car, so it can't be this either...) 

Do I need a rotary?

Am I talking cobblers and I just haven't got the skills required and the machine CAN do it?!

Any thoughts please anyone? My heads buzzing with all this caper!


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

I'm not blaming the DA at all here because in the right hands a DA can do some serious correction on milder paints but I think in this case a Rotary could have made all the difference on the beemer.


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## rds1985 (Mar 7, 2009)

I found the same thing on hard german paint and bought a makita rotary-big difference!


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

It would have been a different story if you had used a rotary....I did my old mans 525D a while back in a day and that was near enough 100% corrected from a hell of a state!


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

Thanks for the reply gents - 3 out 3 shouts say rotary would have done it... so far quite conclusive stuff.


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

It's been said quite a few times, for serious correction a rotary's what's needed. You can pick up a Makita quite cheap atm, £170 ish. Pads are the same as are polishes, just need different backing plates.


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

Or pick up a Silverline for £40 and see how you go with it, but remember in somes cases many folk use wool pads for the likes of BMW because they are soo hard


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

A guy at my work picked up a Silverline for £70 brand new in a offer.

Has speed adjuster on top and is slow start which is really good.

Wow! http://www.powertools2u.co.uk/power...ls2u&utm_medium=Froogle&utm_campaign=Shopping

What a price!


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

All of the above was my understanding and always has been, but just to make things all the more confusing, I know a man who corrected what I couldn't, by DA!

Which says to me, in fact SHOUTS bad technique.

So how come I spent more time on that than any other car but got the worst results I ever have - and usually get very good results?


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

I, too, would need to agree that a rotary would've made the job easier Dennis. Perhaps even using a wool pad to 'cut and run' a la Dave KG to remove the worst RDS's followed by polishing/refining with foam pads.

Take heart that I doubt it's your technique that's letting you down on the tough BMW paint, just your tools! :lol:

Did you try small spot pads on the paint? On a DA the smaller pads provide more cut than the larger pads (wheras on a rotary the smaller pads reduce the cut).

Alan W


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## grant_evans (Mar 2, 2008)

i reallt struggled getting anywhere on my bmw with a da. the only time i got anywhere was when i totally ignored what i had read on here. i used very light preassure on speed 5/6 and let the pad spin quite fast (not 1 rev per second like a lot on here say) seemed to make fairly easy work of it using that technique.


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

Alan W said:


> I, too, would need to agree that a rotary would've made the job easier Dennis. Perhaps even using a wool pad to 'cut and run' a la Dave KG to remove the worst RDS's followed by polishing/refining with foam pads.
> 
> Take heart that I doubt it's your technique that's letting you down on the tough BMW paint, just your tools! :lol:
> 
> ...


you know Alan, I didn't think once about wool pads! Knickers 

I thought wool pads were meant for use with rotarys because they would cut a lot, but remain cool. Didn't know it would work on a DA. 

Every day's a school day :lol:

I tried spot pads and larger pads with all combos I could, so much so that I now have about 15 pads sitting all needing washed after 1 detail when usually I'd only go through maybe 5 or 6 max.


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

grant_evans said:


> i reallt struggled getting anywhere on my bmw with a da. the only time i got anywhere was when i totally ignored what i had read on here. i used very light preassure on speed 5/6 and let the pad spin quite fast (not 1 rev per second like a lot on here say) seemed to make fairly easy work of it using that technique.


That's a very similar technique I use with Britemax polishes. I tried this way and the more 'traditional' way with all my combos, with still the same results.


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## grant_evans (Mar 2, 2008)

wee_green_mini said:


> That's a very similar technique I use with Britemax polishes. I tried this way and the more 'traditional' way with all my combos, with still the same results.


time to get a rotary then by the sounds of it :buffer:


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Blazebro said:


> It's been said quite a few times, for serious correction a rotary's what's needed. You can pick up a Makita quite cheap atm, £170 ish. Pads are the same as are polishes, just need different backing plates.


Might as well spend simila money and get a Milwakee/Chicago Polisher then...lovely to use and not too heavy...last forever too!


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## grant_evans (Mar 2, 2008)

nick_mcuk said:


> Might as well spend simila money and get a Milwakee/Chicago Polisher then...lovely to use and not too heavy...last forever too!


agreed :thumb:


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

wee_green_mini said:


> you know Alan, I didn't think once about wool pads! Knickers
> 
> I thought wool pads were meant for use with rotarys because they would cut a lot, but remain cool. Didn't know it would work on a DA.
> 
> ...


Dennis,

I meant a wool pad on a rotary would probably have made light work of it, not on a DA. Sorry if I confused you! 

With regard to the greater cut of the smaller spot pads (when used on a DA) you also need to lean heavily on the polisher to maximise the cut.

Alan W


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

Alan W said:


> Dennis,
> 
> I meant a wool pad on a rotary would probably have made light work of it, not on a DA. Sorry if I confused you!
> 
> ...


Haha it's cool, the brain I rent occasionally is easily confused 

Tried the leaning thing and also letting them spin rapidly. Nothing seemed to make any difference.

I even tried doing it upside down with my pants on my head - All I got was a cold winky and some strange looks. :doublesho :lol:


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

grant_evans said:


> time to get a rotary then by the sounds of it :buffer:


Defo looking that way Grant :thumb:


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

wee_green_mini said:


> I even tried doing it upside down with my pants on my head - All I got was a cold winky and some strange looks. :doublesho :lol:


:lol::lol::lol: That made me laugh out loud!

Love your sense of humour Dennis! :thumb:

Alan W


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

hmmm I'm kind of glad to see this as I too back when I had my Audi really struggled to get rid of some stuff, and I spend a good 2 days polishing and at one point had the sonus cutting pad with cutting polish and still didn't get what I wanted.

I'm hoping to get a rotary soon though and can't wait to see te difference.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Sorry mate, but a bad workman blames his tools!!! 

As you have already pointed out, there are several people on here who can fully correct hard paints with a DA...

sooooo it's your technique that's wrong! :lol:

IF however you want a try of a rotary before you buy, give me a shout and you can use my silverline, see what you think of it before handing over any money...

:thumb:


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

While i agree with the rotary quote, surely a DA with a compounding pad and heavy cut polish in a small area should cut well even if it does leave holograms.

It will just take longer?

Cheers

PaulN


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

The Cueball said:


> Sorry mate, but a bad workman blames his tools!!!
> 
> As you have already pointed out, there are several people on here who can fully correct hard paints with a DA...
> 
> ...


Don't hold back any :lol:

Technique - yes - agreed.... but, what this thread might be proving is that some people - me included - can't get that technique properly to do everything so then the tool becomes the cure and people get a rotary to make up for it.

I would indeed like to try your rotary :thumb: That's a kind offer. What's your tuition rate? Will 2 bob and a pickled suffice? Oh aye and I'll make you a tea!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I'm going no where near any pickle of yours!!!

:lol:

I'm back in the UK on Sunday, so if you have the time I'll pop over if you want???

PM me your mobile and I'll give you a shout...

:thumb:


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

Can't come out to play this weekend - got a trip to Edinburgh on the cards.

Any other time when I've not got the wife to watch out for I'll happily meet up. I could come to you to save you driving around when you're doing the favour for me. :car:

PMing the number now anyway.

Yer no a bad lad :thumb:


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

nick_mcuk said:


> Might as well spend simila money and get a Milwakee/Chicago Polisher then...lovely to use and not too heavy...last forever too!


Really? Both the Milwakee and chicago are 900-2500rpm, so you might as well save a bundle of cash and go for the Silverline.

The Silverline looks like a Makita, but the Makita's are 600-3000rpm. Might be heavier, but are built like bricks and aren't very noisy.


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## nick-a6 (Jun 9, 2007)

I've corrected a 535d with a DA the pics are in the showroom some were it was some time ago though. I used a meg's cutting/burgundy pad and menz polish


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## Grinnall v8 (Feb 18, 2008)

Ma rotary is here anytime you want to borrow it Den:thumb:
I even have a small toyota bonnet for practicing on (maybe a bit soft
a paint though)
or you could have a bash on the GP bonnet (a Alan:doublesho)

C U at the meeting tonight:thumb: (Paisley wee swinging pickle club)


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

Thanks Billy!

Cueball gave me the offer first so I'd be rude to refuse him now seeing as we have a date :lol: , but no reason why I can't have a shot of yours too. they might be different so maybe a good thing?....

Pickle for you too then eh :doublesho:lol:


Just read all of that again - just to confirm to everyone it's a shot of a rotary, nothing else


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Grinnall v8 said:


> Ma rotary is here anytime you want to borrow it Den:thumb:
> I even have a small toyota bonnet for practicing on (maybe a bit soft
> a paint though)
> or you could have a bash on the GP bonnet (a Alan:doublesho)


I will not rise to the bait! :lol:

Got a Rupes LH18EN here Dennis that is mechanically the same as the new 3M machine if that's of interest. 

Alan W


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2010)

Hexlogic yellow on a rotary corrects bmw just fine


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Dennis,

Have a look at the new £99 Dodo Juice Spin Doctor rotary HERE. 

Alan W


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

Nice linkage Alan - ta :thumb: I'll keep it in mind! 

I'll see how I get on with Mr Cueball's machine and maybe a wee shot of Billy's and see how I adjust to the world of the rotary.

As we say in Paisley on these occasions - Gaunyersel :thumb:


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## Mullins (Aug 7, 2009)

Grinnall v8 said:


> Ma rotary is here anytime you want to borrow it Den:thumb:
> I even have a small toyota bonnet for practicing on (maybe a bit soft
> a paint though)
> or you could have a bash on the GP bonnet (a Alan:doublesho)
> ...


This meeting sounds suspect :doublesho


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

I have a rotary. It's a Silverline Orange, just bought a Kestral SIM180.... If I was you, buy the Kestral. Smoother start, quieter, and overall, a smoother experience :thumb:


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## Blue (Sep 15, 2008)

Do you know for a fact that the car hasn't had spray work? It's possible the defects were under the lacquer


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## GoldCoast (Dec 7, 2008)

Thats what i was thinking Blue, have you checked the paint thickness?

I have an R reg Fiesta thats been resprayed although you would not know until you measure the paint thickness, and i have spent many hours on the bonnet using gloss it extreme cut, wool mitt and a makita and i still have a few feint scratches.


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## quattrojim (Jun 26, 2010)

Hi, i had a similar problem on my Seat Leon cupra R, i used the heaviest cut sonus polish and pads and barely got anywhere, i was using the DAS-6 Pro.

I then purchased some Meguiars Diamond Cut and a Lake country purple foamed wool pad and it worked great, this had a much better cut and managed to do enough to correct my paintwork fully in my opinion, it still took a few passes but was fairly easy.

im not sure if this combo is advised but seemed to work very well in this instance, might be worth giving that a try?


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

wee_green_mini said:


> Can't come out to play this weekend - got a trip to Edinburgh on the cards.
> 
> Any other time when I've not got the wife to watch out for I'll happily meet up. I could come to you to save you driving around when you're doing the favour for me. :car:
> 
> ...


HA, good old indiana cuey. always exploring the world :lol:


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

Blue said:


> Do you know for a fact that the car hasn't had spray work? It's possible the defects were under the lacquer


Yeah, I know that someone has been able to prove it correctable.

The paint readings over the whole car were very even and not at respray depth (120 min to 150 max)


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

We'll get to the bottom of it!

Or get to the bottom of a bottle thinking about it!

:lol:

:thumb:


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

Now yer talkin - balls to the polishing we'll just get jaked and forget about it!


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Don't forget that some panels if hacked completely by the owner may need wetsanding. (Remember the Miracle detail Rolls royce thread?)

A rotary would make the difference and give you that lost confidence back - Don't let it beat ya mate. You take control of the Rotary and sort the car out and show it who's boss !

Here's some motivation for ya


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Don't have time to read the whole post but let me know if you want to borrow my rotary to see if it helps.


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

Frrreeeeeedooooommmmm from the swirls :lol:

Thanks Showshine :thumb: I'm still going and not giving up anything apart from paid correction work coz it can be trouble. Trouble I can do without just now. There's no way though I'm giving up on my hobby (for me, friend and family)!! :buffer:


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## hulla the hulla (May 20, 2009)

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=180752


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

hulla the hulla said:


> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=180752


+1 :thumb:


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

Thanks peeps - Alan W already popped up that linky - looks like a good machine :thumb:


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

Showshine said:


>


:lol: :lol:


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## Mike_182 (Mar 22, 2007)

Vote for a rotary here...


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