# Not sure Vauxhaul meant to give me these.... rip off in black and white!



## DaveDesign (May 6, 2008)

Looking through my paper work for our car, brought it one year ago used from the dealer, year old with not too many miles.

Long story short never been happy with the car.... a recent delve into the folder looking for warranty related stuff when i noticed this sheet....

Quite sickening the profit on diamondbrite, warranty, insurance they make..... let alone their profit on the car, I believe stand-in price is market value.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I think you'll be offended by profit margins of other things you've bought.

It's a business and you agreed on the price.


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## DaveDesign (May 6, 2008)

Yea indeed, I expect them to make money, their a business and they need to make a profit but the level of extortion and extent of the markup on the warranties insurance etc is quite overwelming £239 sale price on a £28 product..... No wonder im in negative equity.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

The Diamondbrite will also require labour to apply. That's not cheap at a main dealer to cover all the costs. 

We all know how cheap it is as a product. 

The warranty could be a good deal. £600 for 3 years doesn't sound too bad if it has good cover. 

Their base prices will be lower than retail as they can negotiate bulk discounts. 

I think everyone knows that they can bargain when buying a car. People get a lot of that stuff free of hugely discounted under negotiation.


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## Clancy (Jul 21, 2013)

If you saw the overheads at a main dealer franchise that would make you feel sick if you had to pay it


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

I agree with Clancy.

Bit of a rigmarole here......my local SEAT main dealer garage (family owned business) who has served the East greater Manchester area for 30 years has just been stripped of it's SEAT franchise......The reason......The owners refused to pay half a million pounds for a rebranding of the dealership imposed on them by SEAT.

I'm going to continue using this particular garage as I've had nothing but top quality service of them. However, now they are going to be independent VAG specialists.

But it just goes to show how much money is involved being a main dealer franchise when the brand want £500,000 just to change the signage from old to new style branding and make a few changes.


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

Did you pay £13k for an 11 year old car with 54k miles on the clock?


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## matt-rudd (Jan 4, 2015)

I always thought they did those things at a loss :'( although not too sure how you came to their warranty making a profit? Surely if there was a fault which was covered under the warranty it may outweigh the cost of what you paid to what it may cost if you hadn't have taken it out?


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## Fozzer (Jul 19, 2011)

There tried to sell me Gap insurance at the stealers for £360, for the middle cover, showing around I got the top cover £140 for 3 years of cover ...


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## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

Eye watering GAP Insurance 

That is a very cheeky level of markup.


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## Johnsy (Oct 20, 2013)

buying private is the way to go, them you can be smug like me :driver:


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## Franzpan (Mar 2, 2009)

Andyg_TSi said:


> I agree with Clancy.
> 
> Bit of a rigmarole here......my local SEAT main dealer garage (family owned business) who has served the East greater Manchester area for 30 years has just been stripped of it's SEAT franchise......The reason......The owners refused to pay half a million pounds for a rebranding of the dealership imposed on them by SEAT.
> 
> ...


And they no doubt will continue to sell both new, nearly new and used Seat


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## DaveDesign (May 6, 2008)

Sicskate said:


> Did you pay £13k for an 11 year old car with 54k miles on the clock?


No the 11 yr old was a trade in!

Have always had bad experience's with private, too many people trying to offload knackered cars!

The warranty, they wont make a loss on that as it just another product sold that another company will look after.... in my experience there is not a lot that is covered.... funnily i went through my purchase pack for the warranty book to find out what was / wasn't covered after the dealer threatening with multiple charges to investigate issues before warranty liability established.

If the average consumer knew what the true extortion those extras truly were they would not take them ( i for sure would not have) I could have arranged all those myself with the respective company's or similar for a fraction of the costs.
I'm sure that would hit franchisees and lead to main dealers to sit up and take notice, as opposed to making franchisees rip off the customer to make ends meet all in the name of selling the brand image.
Vauxhall seem to be oblivious to extent of the picture and im waiting for a response from their management team Monday (that will be a load of ******!). Vertu Motors who own the franchise were just a standard response of taking details.


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## Franzpan (Mar 2, 2009)

What? Your complaining to them now about making a profit on a car a year ago that you where happy to pay for at the time?


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## DaveDesign (May 6, 2008)

the purchase price was the "best" they would do.... i refused the extras but told that was the price of the deal.....

the car has been back multiple times with various problems. told them i want to get rid but they cant do anything because of negative equity after the year .

The pic of paperwork is paperwork Ive been given in error and shows the extent of greed by the dealer of all the products i was pushed and the profit made under the guise of "i must have for the deal"


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## DaveDesign (May 6, 2008)

I'm sure 100's of others get shoved this everyday and too like me none the wiser.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

You agreed to the deal at the time, be surprised if they'll do anything for you 

Shock horror, a company made profit


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## DaveDesign (May 6, 2008)

knowing the facts i would not have agreed to deal..... Ive been given the facts by accident, generally the facts are swept under the carpet at the dealer and consumer none the wiser.

I want them to make a profit, I have to buy my next car from somewhere.
I just don't want to be lied to and taken for a mug.

Stinks of the ppi game if you ask me, you have to have this sir (so we make our commission)


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## matt-rudd (Jan 4, 2015)

You wasn't lied to? They didn't say they were doing it for free and nothing comes for free in this world anyway. I wouldn't have thought they would have forced you to have it, I guess they will have called you sir however. When I got my car from Vauxhall I wasn't forced to take any GAP insurance, warranty, service plan and just said no to the £99 admin fee?


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

DaveDesign said:


> knowing the facts i would not have agreed to deal..... Ive been given the facts by accident, generally the facts are swept under the carpet at the dealer and consumer none the wiser.
> 
> I want them to make a profit, I have to buy my next car from somewhere.
> I just don't want to be lied to and taken for a mug.
> ...


You're not forced to take any of the additional add ons. You're not even forced to buy the car. They tell you the price and you have to agree.

It's very easy just to say no, or walk away.

I've never bought a car from any dealer in my life where they haven't tried to add on paint protection, GAP insurance, tyre insurance, enhanced service packs and so on. Some of it gets outrageous just how many add ons there actually is. It gets rather silly to be honest.

They all do it.

Research before you go and know what you need and what you don't.

You'll get all sorts of warranty options and gap insurance yourself if you need it.

As for paint protection like Diamondbrite, you've been here for 7 years.

If you think this practice is by your dealer only, you're in for a shock.


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## DaveDesign (May 6, 2008)

Sound's like you were there matt, wish you had given me the heads up at the time!


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

I knew there was a fairly large mark up of the various products but over 700 quid as finance commission and an 8% base rate? That's quite an interest rate. 

I did have a chuckle at the BS Incentive - they didn't make anything on you there so be happy that they didn't get away with any BS. Lol. 

Cooks


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## DaveDesign (May 6, 2008)

Cookies said:


> I knew there was a fairly large mark up of the various products but over 700 quid as finance commission and an 8% base rate? That's quite an interest rate.
> 
> I did have a chuckle at the BS Incentive - they didn't make anything on you there so be happy that they didn't get away with any BS. Lol.
> 
> Cooks


I did wonder if the BS incentive was a BullS*** incentive


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

DaveDesign said:


> knowing the facts i would not have agreed to deal..... Ive been given the facts by accident, generally the facts are swept under the carpet at the dealer and consumer none the wiser.
> 
> I want them to make a profit, I have to buy my next car from somewhere.
> I just don't want to be lied to and taken for a mug.
> ...


Can't see the problem - I do not know the mark up on tins of beans at Tesco but it would not surprise me if it was extremely healthy - no one forced you into buying anything


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Not sure what your problem is, over £2000 went to the government in vat, there was £300 + on reconditioning costs, we don't know if they over valued your px ... The profit on the warranty was £120 ..... Let's say you took two hours of the salesmanship time, 2 hours to prep and pdi your new car, the insurance to allow you to go for a test drive the tax on the trade plates .... None of that is shown in the price of the car.

I take it you are happy to work for minimum wage and that you don't want any extra to allow you to have some luxuries.

At the end of the day it's a business and the aim is to make money, sorry but that's just the way of the world and it doesn't just apply to cars.


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## Clancy (Jul 21, 2013)

Companies wouldn't exist if they broke even on everything. By the time you take overheads out of that they probably made barely any actual profit on it at all 

If they sold the car for the same price they received it they would end up making a loss


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## DaveDesign (May 6, 2008)

Clancy said:


> Companies wouldn't exist if they broke even on everything. By the time you take overheads out of that they probably made barely any actual profit on it at all
> 
> If they sold the car for the same price they received it they would end up making a loss


Everyones entitled to their opinion in this thread but you Clancy cross the line with petty name calling.


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## Loudandproud205 (Oct 18, 2015)

In all my years with cars I never realised I could buy GAP cover elsewhere. 

My current car was at a trade in on negative equity so the new one owes me more than its current value but by the time I trade it in the value will be much higher as it should be more desirable. Although I will say when I traded mine in and the one I took out I worked out that Toyota must have made huge profit from the person that traded the one I bought in as they gave me retail for my trade in which shocked me, but they also worked very hard to discount the price of the one I was buying. In all my years buying cars I've never had a better service than that at John Roe Toyota.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Loudandproud205 said:


> In all my years with cars I never realised I could buy GAP cover elsewhere.
> 
> My current car was at a trade in on negative equity so the new one owes me more than its current value but by the time I trade it in the value will be much higher as it should be more desirable. Although I will say when I traded mine in and the one I took out I worked out that Toyota must have made huge profit from the person that traded the one I bought in as they gave me retail for my trade in which shocked me, but they also worked very hard to discount the price of the one I was buying. In all my years buying cars I've never had a better service than that at John Roe Toyota.


GAP insurance has nothing to do with negative equity for trade ins. It's only in the event of an insurance write off.

If your car is stolen or you crash it, GAP insurance will top up the money offered by your insurance company to cover the money owed to the finance company, or you can arrange a back to invoice price.

It has nothing to do with having a car in negative equity.

Don't take this as an offensive comment, but if you don't know what GAP insurance is, and find you are left with car deals in negative equity, ask some questions in advance and people will advise you better.


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## Loudandproud205 (Oct 18, 2015)

Yeah sorry I knew GAP was just to cover the offset between whats owed and the value of the car I was just unaware that it could be bought else where tbh I'd never even thought to look anywhere else for it either. 

I ended up in negative equity due to the car I had was traded wasn't worth what the outstanding balance was. But the new car and package was a much better deal so it offset it.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

DaveDesign said:


> Everyones entitled to their opinion in this thread but you Clancy cross the line so do one.


Wrong choice of language but he's only said what we're all thinking.
Op-You were the one who agreed to pay the price, I take it they didn't hold a gun to your head? As others have said dealers have overheads too not listed on there, make sure you ask for a list of those when complaining.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

They've only made 20% profit overall, not a lot really when you think what other industries make


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## Natalie (Jan 19, 2011)

Bought a few cars from dealers in the last couple of years, the only "extra" either of us have paid for is extended warranty. Sales teams hate us :lol:


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## Clancy (Jul 21, 2013)

DaveDesign said:


> Everyones entitled to their opinion in this thread but you Clancy cross the line so do one.


Just don't get why your having a moan that a company made a profit and expecting something back off them ? Would you run a business for free or to just break even on something ?

What do you expect them to say, sorry we made a profit here you are we will share it with you?

You bought a car an at agreed price end of story


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## realist (May 11, 2011)

DaveDesign said:


> Everyones entitled to their opinion in this thread but you Clancy cross the line so do one.


Unnecessary, you've put it on here for debate, that means you may find that some people don't agree with you. For what it's worth, my opinion is this, just about all the extras you've bought could have been gotten cheaper if you had been prepared to to put in a bit of legwork. Everyone knows main dealers are the most expensive places to get a car, especially if you are trading in, and finally, I would be too embarrassed to come on here and say that I bought main dealer paint protection:thumb::thumb:


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

A few years ago I did an audit on a dealership that was bought of a large dealer group that by and large is considered to be very good.

Strange how I found sales invoices for over 150 paint protection packages but purchase invoices for less than 30paint protection kits from the suppliers


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## DaveDesign (May 6, 2008)

Guess all I'm trying to say is they should be more upfront, Perhaps in a keyfacts sheet that is so common these days.... Its the black and white of whats whats and whats not.
If I knew the true extent over inflated cost of the extras and that i could arrange all that myself would have i gone a head?...... No not in a million years. 

I don't expect a dealer to do something for nothing or make a loss.... i want the company to do well so their still around next Im in the market for a new car.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Everyone knows there is a mark up on the likes of gap insurance and paint protection and I don't think there is any need for it to be disclosed. You don't go into John Lewis's and ask to see what they paid for a TV to see if they are making money.

Some cars you win on, others they might take a loss on. If your worried about negative equity I'm assuming the car is reasonably new nod you have a lot of it on finance and are not even half way into the agreement ?


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## DaveDesign (May 6, 2008)

Perhaps with the above being disclosed I can help someone who is naive as i was walking into a dealer thinking that the prices were the prices and that in fact there are HUGE savings to be made arranging the extras your self.

Tv is a bad comparison different market totally, at our own leisure we can shop around for the best deal on that nice 4k we just saw in john lewis.

Different when being face to face with the hardcore well trained salesman.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

I am sure it will help someone with regards to diamonbrite type protection and GAP, both of which can be purchased for far far less than dealers try to sell for, a lot of us know this but not everyone does, a bloke at work was buying a mini and they had added aprox £700 on for both, i advised where to get GAP and not to bother with the protection and he paid £95 instead of the £700.



DaveDesign said:


> Perhaps with the above being disclosed I can help someone who is naive as i was walking into a dealer thinking that the prices were the prices and that in fact there are HUGE savings to be made arranging the extras your self.
> 
> Tv is a bad comparison different market totally, at our own leisure we can shop around for the best deal on that nice 4k we just saw in john lewis.
> 
> Different when being face to face with the hardcore well trained salesman.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

DaveDesign said:


> Perhaps with the above being disclosed I can help someone who is naive as i was walking into a dealer thinking that the prices were the prices and that in fact there are HUGE savings to be made arranging the extras your self.
> 
> Tv is a bad comparison different market totally, at our own leisure we can shop around for the best deal on that nice 4k we just saw in john lewis.
> 
> Different when being face to face with the hardcore well trained salesman.


Whatever you do, don't invite a double glazing salesman into your house :lol:


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## DaveDesign (May 6, 2008)

fatdazza said:


> Whatever you do, don't invite a double glazing salesman into your house :lol:


No ****ing chance!!!!!


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Just got a new car. But made it clear to the salesman from the start that, I'm not interested in gap insurance, supagard, or anything else all I want us to buy the car we want, fair enough it's a buisness but I'm the one buying the salesman's commission I'm not interested in, you try the hard sell with me you won't get anywhere I will not be pushed into something that i don't want.


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Do you own an iPad or iPhone?

Google the markup on them and see if it affects anything!


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## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

andy665 said:


> Can't see the problem - I do not know the mark up on tins of beans at Tesco but it would not surprise me if it was extremely healthy - no one forced you into buying anything


Markup on beans is probably almost negligible but once you're in the supermarket they've got you trapped, held captive to their 1,000,000% markup on coffee beans and those German biscuits that are half covered in chocolate.

You must have been happy with the deal OP when you bought the car, I'm guessing that the dealer is getting sniffy about replacing the car due to the negative equity because they want to sell you a new one rather than you reject that one.

We got my wife a new Leon FR last year and took GAP insurance on it (which I think was £500). I don't really care about the markup as the price of GAP was offset against negotiating a free 3 year service pack and the overall cost (including the monthly repayment) was acceptable.


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## eibbor (Sep 8, 2015)

When we bought our new volvo a couple years ago it was the first time I had bought from a dealer. We negotiated an extra £700 on our trade in, they offered us paint and fabric protection, GAP insurance, and a tyre/wheel replacement/refurb package. All in it was around £1200 iirc. It was my money I was handing over so I haggled for a while, then refused and haggled some more. Ended up getting every package for £250 with a grand knocked off the new car too. 
I would never just agree to the price with a car.


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## DaveDesign (May 6, 2008)

Deffinetly been an eye opener for me!!
As for the document I was given in error vauxhall have said they will be in contact with the dealership regarding the incompetency
Some ones due an **** kick.. Eek! !
Hopefully someone of importance from the dealer with be in contact with me so I can have a good rant about all my other gripes about the sale and the car just to make myself feel better!!!


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## JBirchy (Oct 9, 2010)

Very interesting thread this one. I must admit that my first thought here was to look at the total profit made on the job vs. the retail price (price you paid). Their margin was 21% - £2,720.07. Out of this they have to pay the commision to the sales guy, cover overheads such as basic wages, insurances, building rent, miscellaneous purchases etc... so 21% is incredibly reasonable. 

Yes, I can see how you feel ripped off paying for the diamondsh1te and GAP insurance, but overall I'd say their profit is very reasonable. Any less than this, the business simply wouldn't survive. They aren't there for the good of their health, they're there to make money.

I will caveat what I've said above by saying that there is a difference between a company making margin and delivering a value-added service, and a company charging a customer excessively for a poor product. It has to be a win-win for both the business, and the customer.

As mentioned above, I reckon it costs less than £10 to manufacture an iPhone in the volumes they make them in and they sell for £700 + on some occasions but they sell in the bucketload and people are so quick to upgrade to the latest model, I myself am guilty of that.


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## scoobyboy1 (Aug 28, 2006)

Buying a brand new car from a dealer there is already a big mark up on the price straight away. I spoke to a guy who owned a franchised dealers and he said that when the MK2 Focus RS come out brand new he ordered a few from the production line and it was something like £20k, so dealers where making nearly £10k profit selling a brand new Focus RS.

Another example was when my VW Golf R got stolen, for VW to settle the lease/finance they asked my insurance company for £21k, I had already put £2.4k down so that made it £23.4k and the retail on the car was £32k so £9k profit was in that car.


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