# Premium Carnuba wax over Prima Amigo - Final DW test of 2011?



## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

*Update on bottom post.*

_*Summary*

*Point*

To test whether carnuba wax (Dodo Supernatural) durability is affected by use with Prima Amigo polymer glaze, since I've seen a few threads that raised questions over compatability/durability with waxes. [The instructions on the label only mention "synthetic" sealant/wax bonding - although this could be because they're a traditionally fussy LSP.] Also, to compare the carnuba wax to a hydrid wax/sealant (Dodo Purple Haze Pro), and against a traditional synthetic paste sealant (FK1000).

*Prep*

Car cleaned, clayed and cleansed with AF rejuvenate to provide a good base for testing.

*Test*

Prima Amigo was applied to specific sections (bonnet and selected rear panels), all three of SN, PHP and FK were applied both over the prima amigo, and on just clayed/cleansed (well prepped) paint. Collinite 476 was used for interest on some lower regions of the car tackled later in the day (though not over amigo as I was too tired ).

*Results*

Durability yet to be determined... car looks shiny 
*Update: 7 weeks, 5000 miles. Most of the wax has suffered - so beading sheeting are not what they were. Doesn't seem to be any different from bits with Prima on, or without. Although, fair to say the wax has rotted away from the outside first, rather than bonding issues with a base layer*
_

*The Long version, with pics:*

Well, my last day of 2011 was a productive one... (my arms and legs hurt real bad right now). So, what did I get up to?

I washed, clayed and paint cleansed my bonnet, ready to apply some prima amigo and try a few carnuba waxes over the top and test them out, as a useful tester for what to apply come Spring time.

I felt this wouldn't really hold up much without a control. So followed my eager mood and dared the weather - mild 11deg c, but cloudy and threatening - and cracked on with the whole car since it was starting to lose some beading magic and shine. It hadn't been stripped back for 6 or so months and had a few odd layers on - so it seemed pointless loading more wax on top of a deteriorating base.

*Prep*

A quick run down of the routine: a healthy dose of Valet Pro orange pre wash, lots of rinsing, strong shampoo 2BM with Chemical Guys Glossworks, clayed with my new Bilt Hamber Medium and some born slippy/water in record time (pulled off more than I was expecting :doublesho), rewashed, dried, and cleaned with AF Rejuvenate pre-wax cleanser.

The Rejuvenate part is probably where the ache came from - a great paint cleanser and thin enough for a good work time... I worked it by hand *hard* (like a sweatshop worker in the run up to the Olympics!) with the white side of an ultimate (red/white) foam applicator - and after the effective clay session the results were pleasing. 










*Test*

Now came for some testing... Due to the weather, this was tackled in stages. But the overall run-down was as follows: after paint cleaning all over, Prima Amigo was applied to the bonnet by the red side of the same sort of foam applicator:



















And to the following rear panels (spoiler and lower bumper):










First up, I thought I would try a nice Carnuba wax I've been looking forward to using, so step up Dodo Supernatural for the right hand side of the bonnet. I thought a good comparison would be Dodo Purple Haze Pro, as this is a hydrid wax/sealant and might work well with the polymer glaze Amigo. This took the left hand side.










As a control, SN and PHP were applied to their respective sides of the car (wings, doors and quarter panels) *WITHOUT Prima Amigo* as a base, so to just clayed/cleansed paint, and SN to the roof also.



















SN on the roof (I liked the fact you could focus two ways here!):



















For those thinking "fool, you're not supposed to wax over Prima amigo". The rear of the car was taken care of with the paste sealant FK1000.



















I'd cleansed and waxed these main areas of the car to "get them done" in case it rained. And went back afterwards to do the front bumper and sills. These got a coat of colly476 for interests sake as I've got a pot. :lol:



















_*The overall breakdown as was below:*_



















*Results*

Not too much to say yet. I'll keep an eye on beading, performance and durability over the coming weeks/months - and they'll have their work cut out with regular motorway miles planned in that time. Likewise with beading/sheeting when the opportunity arrises.

In terms of looks, most of it was achieved prior to the wax I'd guess, but either way here are some hopefully nice pics below (with requisite tin pics!). Apologies if some are blurry... I reaslise looking back that's because my hands were a bit shaky after 5-6 hrs of trying to be a DA! Also, I started to lose some light by the end, and they're Iphone pics. (Yes, that's Z16 on the floor... that was the next job).

*Bonnet*










*Purple Haze Pro side:*










*Shiny SN roof*










*Supernatural side*










And a nice pic when I stopped for petrol on the way home, and went "woah" when I stepped out of my car! 










And as it would be rude not to by this point, candidates marked up :lol:: As bourne out by a 2nd look this morning... I'd say more flake is pronounced with the FK, but a deeper/wetter look with the SN










I'll try and update this thread with some "more useful" information moving forwards. But for now, as always, any comments/questions/criticism welcome :thumb:


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

So, any thoughts if it (Amigo) will affect wax durability? It definitely seemed to change the feel of the paint a little... quite hard to describe however.


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

I'll be definitely paying attention to this because ironically I just did my car with amigo and 2 coats of dodo SN. It's been 3 weeks and it still beads liked day 1. So far it seems durability isn't affected.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Babalu826 said:


> I'll be definitely paying attention to this because ironically I just did my car with amigo and 2 coats of dodo SN. It's been 3 weeks and it still beads liked day 1. So far it seems durability isn't affected.


Good to know mate. I think that may be might preferred combo, but I'm trying to cast aside my pre-conceptions. Are you pleased with it?

I've just been out in the rain to take a look, and for the upper facing surfaces I can't see any difference in the deading of SH, PHP (across the bonnet 50:50, or even the FK really (although that's only on a small part). Beading looks good! :thumb:

Will take some pics when it's light!


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## waxy (Feb 27, 2006)

Prima Amigo isn't Acrylic based.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

waxy said:


> Prima Amigo isn't Acrylic based.


You're right. I seemed to have got it in my head (maybe from EZ creme?), I'll amend to say "polymer based". I've seen a few questions over compatability/durability with the polymers though. :thumb:


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

McClane said:


> Good to know mate. I think that may be might preferred combo, but I'm trying to cast aside my pre-conceptions. Are you pleased with it?
> 
> I've just been out in the rain to take a look, and for the upper facing surfaces I can't see any difference in the deading of SH, PHP (across the bonnet 50:50, or even the FK really (although that's only on a small part). Beading looks good! :thumb:
> 
> Will take some pics when it's light!


 Im definitely loving the looks, amigo added extra depth that I've never soon before. Heres a pic right after the removal of the 2nd layer. The beading is really good. I'll get a pic when I can of that.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Wow, that looks excellent! Did you apply it by Machine? Very shiny Mini :thumb:!


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

I applied amigo by machine


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

Lovely review McCLANE,will keep my eye on this for future use myself.

cheers


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Very nice McClane!

Now for some criticism! 

I think you should have just done one side of the car with amigo, and the other side without. The lower doors and rear of the car always seem to be where the LSP go first, so you could have had one whole side for your control.

I really like these tests, I always find LSP applied to a clean, bare panel lasts the longest, but the difference isn't worth worrying about. It will be interesting if you notice any difference yourself! :thumb:

Thanks for taking the time to post, I'll be keeping an eye on this one for sure!


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

type[r]+ said:


> Very nice McClane!
> 
> Now for some criticism!
> 
> ...


That's weird because my lsp always goes first on the hood and roof. My doors are always the last to go. I definitely agree with the half and half though.


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## Paddy_R (Jan 10, 2007)

I love Supernatural over amigo. This is the reflection on my ST (excuse the fly to the right of the badge):


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

type[r]+ said:


> Very nice McClane!
> 
> Now for some criticism!
> 
> ...


Cheers type R, and a fair point. Agree the best way I test amigo alone would've been to 50:50 the car and apply one wax over it. I thought about it (although not so much than the final order has much "order") before applying, and I guess I really wanted to test the 2 main waxes too, that's why they're more longitudinally based, as I didn't want to split the waxes front to back. Selfishly, doing mainly only the bonnet also meant if it was a disaster, it won't take me too long to redo 

For info, I felt the previous LSP was most faded on the bonnet, roof and front doors. The rear quarter panel always seems best on mine. :thumb: the rear also takes a beating, so Fk1000's got its work cut out back there!


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## Hoppo32 (Nov 18, 2008)

Durability should be fine, my Focus (which lives outside) went all through last winter wearing Amigo + 2 coats of AG HD Wax, it was still beading quite well when i stripped it in the spring. That was 6 months it had been on the car through one of the worst UK winters we've seen in a long time.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Hoppo32 said:


> Durability should be fine, my Focus (which lives outside) went all through last winter wearing Amigo + 2 coats of AG HD Wax, it was still beading quite well when i stripped it in the spring. That was 6 months it had been on the car through one of the worst UK winters we've seen in a long time.


Good to know. :thumb:


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Very good review there, many thanks for taking your time to post this.


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Nice review and idea.I bet your neighbours were peeping through their windows thinking
"that mad blokes at it again,poilishing his car and taking photos"


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Trip tdi said:


> Very good review there, many thanks for taking your time to post this.


Cheers mate, no worries :thumb:



PugIain said:


> Nice review and idea.I bet your neighbours were peeping through their windows thinking
> "that mad blokes at it again,poilishing his car and taking photos"


Haha, yeah, tell me about it... Always feel a bit of a fool! :lol:, although most of the time they seem to think I'm selling it, what with the effort, photos an all!


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

I have to provide an update for my car. I gave my car a second wash and my lsp of supernatural (2 coats) almost seemed absent. Beading dropped off a lot and sheeting was worse. Keep in mind 2 weeks after. What did I do wrong? Wax was applied immediately after amigo. Should I have waited?


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

It last 5 months underneath Glasur on my car mate before we stripped it for C1. 

The only criticism I have is with rejuvenate. Imo it contains oils/fillers and it's unfair to have Amigo over that. 

If cleansing the paint I would have give the paint a good wipe down with ipa/eraser etc. just my opinion but the rejuvenate could affect performance.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Babalu826 said:


> I have to provide an update for my car. I gave my car a second wash and my lsp of supernatural (2 coats) almost seemed absent. Beading dropped off a lot and sheeting was worse. Keep in mind 2 weeks after. What did I do wrong? Wax was applied immediately after amigo. Should I have waited?


Sorry to hear that. Interesting... although a shame for you bud.  Will have to keep an eye one mine. Did you wash it with anything in particular? Strong chemicals or a particular shampoo residues wise? I.e. ONR, or a strong shampoo/pre-wash? Amigo seemed to be work on wipe off to me, so no amount of time was left with me either.

Beading and sheeting like a trooper thus far (although to be expect after 1 week!) when I washed it today... 10 mins under Magifoam (1 1/2 inches in the bottle) and I've just locked everything down with some Z8 after a 2nd buff to get rid of some further hazing. Looked sharp - rained already though, so it never lasts long :wall:

The Z8 may well interfere with this a little, but if you believe in the "X is only as good as what you put it on top of"... the test should still stand. And the waxes were only single layered.



gally said:


> It last 5 months underneath Glasur on my car mate before we stripped it for C1.
> 
> The only criticism I have is with rejuvenate. Imo it contains oils/fillers and it's unfair to have Amigo over that.
> 
> If cleansing the paint I would have give the paint a good wipe down with ipa/eraser etc. just my opinion but the rejuvenate could affect performance.


Cheers for the info/views Kev. I guess we'll have to see with this one if that's the case. Certainly, my reading on it suggested that there isn't much in the way of oils etc. Although the showcase thread does mention "glazes" in Rejuvenate.

Indeed, also, whether Prima Amigo has enough cleaners to "take care" of the previous residues too. All of the car had the same base, so maybe the wax will be more compatible with rejuvenate than prima... but that'll be good information to glean all the same. :thumb:


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

nice test.. my only criticism?

using your bloody phone in a petrol station :lol:


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Haha... Camera function Craig... No radio waves being sent there!


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

unless some daft bugger phones you as you have it turned on to take a photo


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## Babalu826 (Aug 7, 2011)

Nope only washed with megs shampoo and conditioner. It's ph neutral. Idk what happened. I stripped it off and two layers of Vic chaos


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Update, update...

First. Beads.










Presents:










Z8 :argie:










The sun came out today! This is after 700 motorway miles, and rinsing the the frost off my car with warm water. Sheeting like a trooper.


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Any updates? How Prima stands?


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

In terms of updates.... I've not had much chance to wash the beast, but some observations I've made might be valuable (I hosed the car down on Friday evening - after some heavy, salt, M-way miles):

I've noticed that the rear spoiler sheets worse than than the roof and sides... and I put that down to the FK1000 retaining it's abilities less well than the waxes used. (I've not rigorously tested this against the lower two sections of the rear that are also FK1000, and"with and without" prima). I don't know if this a compatability issue with FK1000 and amigo, or it's just not quite so good as the waxes.

The bonnet seemed to be beading/sheeting just as well as the rest of the car (the Bonnet being Prima Amigo'd, most of the rest not). These parts have the mix of Dodo waxes on.

Due to busyness and other things, I've only really washed it properly once (topped with z8) -a few weeks ago - and ONR'd it once this weekend... (topped off with Z8) - still not sure about ONR.

So, despite the Z8 and other things. Based on these observations (with different LSPs, and sections done with and without prima), I'd say it's holding up well. 

My reasoning:

There are clearly - based on the FK1000 observations - areas that are sheeting less well, so the Z8 has not entirely obfuscated things - by becoming a totally replacement surface - it's only as good as what you put it on!

The areas with the premium carnuba wax are still performing well, both with and without Prima Amigo. That's what I'm taking from it so far. I'll leave off the Z8 and ONR to take a more true look at things next time I wash it properly. That'll probably be in two weeks (so six weeks in by then).

:thumb:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

I did say I find the lower doors and rear of the car is the first to go! :lol:


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

True. But there was a clear difference in performance between the SN and the FK - two weeks out from washing and Z8-ing, based on the divide below... which seems "too neat" to be entirely based on area of car.










This same difference is not evident based on the border between the bonnet and wing, for example. Where the largest amigo, no amigo border (with same LSP) is.

So, I feel, based on this; if there was a massive performance difference, it would show at this stage. :thumb:


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

I've just been out to test the sheeing on the clean/freshly Z8'd car (I've not been anywhere for a few days thanks to a horrid lurgy)... and there's no difference at the moment, so Z8 has obviously topped everything back up again.



Will be interesting to see what we've got after a wash with foam/orange pre-wash, and with a shampoo but no QD.


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## Aucky (Oct 3, 2008)

gally said:


> The only criticism I have is with rejuvenate. Imo it contains oils/fillers and it's unfair to have Amigo over that.
> 
> If cleansing the paint I would have give the paint a good wipe down with ipa/eraser etc. just my opinion but the rejuvenate could affect performance.


Prime wouldn't cause the same problem would it?


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

-PJB- said:


> I'll leave off the Z8 and ONR to take a more true look at things next time I wash it properly. That'll probably be in two weeks (so six weeks in by then).
> 
> :thumb:


No update yet as the weather has been so horrid I've not got the wash I wanted this weekend (why I did the ONR last time!).

What I will say is that the car has 1400 miles of salt and grime on it - and looks suitably grubby, and next weekend will be nearer 2000 - so it'll have it's work cut out when I got to wash it. :doublesho

Will go much more basic, Valet Pro orange pre wash, rinse, shampoo... then test the sheeting with an open hose.

Will get some pics when I do it. Next weekend or the one after. Weather depending! :thumb:


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Vid put in #32. Post not needed...


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Update on this later. :thumb:

Despite the ****ty weather - I managed to do as promised and see to this:










5000 miles (yes, 5000!!!) of snow, salt ice and solvents (Z8). Washed twice, ONR once...

Going out now, but will post later.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Better late than never, got a result on this, but not entirely as I was expecting...

After it rained in the week, this was on my dirty car, so looked fairly promising:










The dirt was pretty grim though... mostly salt/grime:



















After a Valet Pro orange pre wash and PW rinse, I had this:










After snow foam, this:










So I washed the car with just shampoo, and rinsed with an open hose (no drying aids or QD), sheeting had dropped off remarkably everywhere (not just the PRIMA amigo'd bits), the FK1000 on the rear, the Supernatural on the passengers side, and the PHP on the Drivers side... even the Collinite on the bumper.

It's fair to say, one of the 5000 miles driving, snow, salt, ice, and solvents (From Zaino Z8 possible), had cleared off the best of the wax.

I dried the car fully, and the paint felt more grabby than that "just waxed " feeling you get.

Here's what it looked like (vid) *Sorry for the pixels, photobucket compression sucks!*:



I also, as a little test (plus I got rained off), went over the bonnet with Prima amigo to see if it's any good as a paint cleaner - before apply some Vics Concours (yeah, I bought some ) to the bonnet and wings. On the wings, I just chucked the Vics straight on without any prep, so see what that's like.

Proper wax beading (2nd vid):



Now, to be fair, the car had done a lot of miles through some tough conditions, but I'd hoped for a little more protection at this stage (there's still some, it's definitely better than nothing). But, you live and learn. What I can say though, is the bits with prima amigo on faired just as well as the rest (so, the bonnet had been prima'd and did just as well). The fact even collinite over paint cleanser had dropped off a lot.... somethings mullered it.

I've a month or so Galactic miles to go, then I'll be doing some nice car pampering before the April meet. Depending how I get on with the Vics, I'll have that or something else (or a half and half with Purple Haze, SN or Blue velvet) on it by then.

Car finished (though not all as smooth as I'd like):










Vics over Amigo takes a nice "selective lighting shot"... not totally convinced yet, but want to get it layered eventually, as I hear thats best:










New beading after rain:



















Rest of car not so much:



















There might be a clue as to salt being the biggest culprit... the leading edge of the roof is even worse than the middle... this obviously took a battering.









:thumb:


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Also keen to get these back on now. I've had enough of winter and biscuit wheels!


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## Blumenmaus (Feb 1, 2012)

Brilliant!

Excellent experiment, PJB and proof that the vast majority is hype to fuel our OCD. Or should that be ADHD?


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Cheers Blumenmaus.

There's a few things I'd say off the back of this. Mainly, it's created more questions than answers for me , and that it probably suffered for me a bunch of stuff I wanted to use, bunging it on in a way I thought might be interesting, _then_ thinking about it in depth.

1) I might have shortened the lifespan of the waxes by applying a solvent based product.sealant in Z8 a couple of times - but as soon as I stopped, this happens...

2) The mileages (700 per week, mostly motorway); might be too much to expect of any wax under the conditions (lots of rain, salt, spray, frost mornings, snow etc).

3) I've so often use a QD such as FK425 after washing in the past... so have my expectations of wax lifespan been artificially raised by doing that?

4) I've had better longevity out of Purple Haze pro in the Summer/autumn, without the harsh conditions, and using 425.

I can't knock the finish when it was done though :thumb:

What I think it does show very well. Winter + daily driver is hard on any LSP... [better than on my paintwork itself though]. Plenty on here advocate durability over looks for this time of year. :thumb:

_*One for Gally re: his post in here*_... both these products here and C2 (on our mini) have been over Rejuvenate, and I've been slightly dissapointed with longevity. Now I'm saying _*nothing*_ conclusive at this stage... But it's got me thinking... too high expectations of more waxes not bourne out? Need to be careful what goes over it? Just down to conditions?

It might be nothing, but since I don't want to be IPA wiping down and stripping fillers after an "enhancement" product... time to test this vs. something else?


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## Blumenmaus (Feb 1, 2012)

I always like reading reviews and comparison test, they often throw up unexpected results. 

Coincidentally, I applied S/N Hybird over Lime Prime Lite in ealry October and didn't touch it until earlier this week - shameful I know. After washing throughly and rinsing off, the Hybrid was beading very, very well indeed, after all the salt and recent harsh conditions. I did a "heads up" on this separately and I think this may highlight that perhaps "mixing" certain brands and formulations will shorten the lifespan of a LSP? 

As to Prima, I have used their products ie Banana Gloss, Slick and Hydro, all with very nice results.........:argie:

Today, by way of a change I used Glasur (over the top of numerous other waxes and sealants) so I'll be interested to see how we get along. :thumb:

No doubt the purists will now hound me out of town for not using HD Cleanse alone with Glasur...........


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Since they're dodo waxes, maybe that's a good one to do. AF cleanser + Wax and Dodo cleanser and wax crossed over with AF cleanser + Dodo wax, Dodo Cleanser + AF wax etc.

Since I like a filler with my cleanser... I think I'm going to try PRIMA as a cleanser. Maybe down one half. Part of me wishes I'd bought the bottle of Bilt Hamber cleanser polish I was considering... that'd be another good one to chuck in there.

Weird that I seem to be dabbling with the Essex brands lately... gotta keep it local! :lol:

It is worth remember that my car potentially did 6 months worth of mileage for some people in the duration of this aswell though.


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