# Please help a total n00b with a black car !



## samion (Apr 12, 2011)

Firstly - hello everyone. Great to be here amongst so much knowledge. I've read the stickies on what I'm about to ask so do have a bit of info but as a total noob I'm a little overwhelmed so would really like some advice if possible please.. 

I've just got myself a black Audi (2007) metallic (pearl I think but not sure) and it looks lovely but boy does it get dirty easily!

And I've just noticed it has a fair few swirls...  The swirls are only noticeable in direct bright light, but still it's not perfect.

Here are some pics:


































I should say there are also a bunch of water spots on the doors. Otherwise it's pretty much ok (exept for a few deeper scratches in a couple of places)

Now I probably don't want to go to town to get rid of them 100% but just reduce the appearance somewhat. I don't have a machine because google searches have scared me a bit with the daage I can do because I'm totally inexperienced so I'll have to do it by hand (and I know I can't get it perfect by hand).

Halford's at the moment have a 3 for 2 offer, which I'd like to use I think.

I'm ok with washing using microfibre, mitts, double bucket etc so I'm looking mainly for advice re: reducing swirls, polishing and waxing. They have the Megs clay kit which includes detailler spray and from what I understand, this is something I should be getting.

The next step however is what confuses me. They've got a load of Megs stuff, which I'm looking at, and they have autoglym. Some people are telling me to clay first, then use the deep crystal paint cleaner,followed by the megs polish then megs carnuba wax.

But looking at the megs site it seems the "deep crystal paint cleaner" isn't their recommended product for getting rid of swirls and instead they talk about swirl X and ultimate compound - none which are available at my local Halford's though 

Now, I don't want to take too much of the top coat off so I don't want something too abrasive, but I *would* like to remove/reduce the appearance of swirls by hand. Will the deep crystal paint cleaner be ok? I've looked at the abrasiveness chart in the stickie and it looks like it's a polish, not a cutter so I don't knwo how good it'll be... do autoglym do any cutters? I don't know.

As for polish, should I stick with the one in the deep crystal megs system or as it's black am I better off going with the Autoglym deep polish one?

And then which wax? The Halford's guy there is a fan of Mei's wax by the way.

Any help would *really* be appreciated please as the offer isn't on for long and I'm a confused noob


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## billyp (Jul 24, 2010)

unfortunately you will not get rid of swirls/scratches by hand but you can hide them a bit if they're not too deep so if you are sticking with halfords i would get ag srp and also ag uds the srp will help to maybe rid the very very fine stuff and it will give a good shine and also a base to apply a coat of uds which is good on black and helps cover the swirls, there is other products available out there but imo thats the best from halfords for the job you have on hand, mind don't use too much of these products or any others as it will be easier to buff off if applied thin


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

ez creme glaze mate works well on filling :thumb:


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## Mr Face (Jan 22, 2009)

Hi Fella, welcome :thumb:


To take a quote from a well know film : if you take the red tablet you will wake in the morning and all of this will be forgotten, inc your swirls. If however you take the blue tablet there’s no going back, you have been warned. I do think though you already have the blue tab in your mouth as you’ve made it this far.

Options open to you

(i)	bite the bullet and get yourself on a machine polishing day, buy yourself a Megs G220 or Das Pro & some medium cut and finishing polish like Megs 205 or Menz106 and immerse yourself to a life praying the sod next to you in the car park will get out of his car and have some respect for your paint work

(ii)	Try a filler heavy paint cleanser / glaze : Victoria Deep Paint Cleanser / Prima Amigo and be satisfied with 50 – 75% temporarily hiding the swirls or 

(iii)	Put your location in your profile, get to know some of the guys in your area, many will willingly spend some time with you putting your paintwork right and teach you a few tips and techniques in the process. 

Of course, you could just pray or let it be and be happy with clay and a decent wax or sealant. Unfortunately detailing is a bug that once it bites you its not easily purged (unlike your wallet will be) :thumb:


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Check this post out...

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=211849


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

grantwils said:


> Check this post out...
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=211849


Nice one :thumb:


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## country boy (Feb 21, 2011)

I've been struggling with swirls on my black '05 Golf GTi and have tried quite a few different things (like you this is all by hand). I've tried SRP,Lime Prime and PB Blackhole all with differing degrees of success. Today i got some Megs Ultra Compound and some German applicators and did a couple of test patches on my car and i must say i'm amazed,its certainly not 100% corrected but the difference is brilliant. I got the stuff from www.elitecarcare.co.uk,def a combination i'd recommend for a black car and you can then top it with your favourite wax.


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## ginge7289 (Feb 21, 2011)

Hi mate. To truly eliminate these swirls, you will have to buy a machine, now a DA as said above is the best option.

however, I recently did a comparison on the wife's black car doing this just by hand, using megs ultimate compound, which is an awesome product. Using only a microfibre applicator and some real elbow grease, I managed to make a real difference. If you are trying to correct the paint, do not bother with swirl x, just get UC, which should be available in halfords.

You really have to work the product and expect to get a sweat on, once you have worked it into the panel simply wipe off with a microfibre. If your not happy, have another go at it. I would suggest claying the car first. Meguiars say that this product can be used every day for a year and there will still be lacquer left on the car. So doing this twice a year is no problem.

Once you have completed this, then get some AG SRP (Available in halfords) and this should fill any swirls that the UC did not remove. Once you have applied and removed that, simply wax it with your choice of wax, stand back and behold the beauty.

HTH.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Mr face has it spot on, he also has my polisher but that's another story . To remove them it needs machining, to hide them something like prima amigo is the way to go although it's better by machine. As he also said vics deep cleanse is great and perfect for hand use. Top with vics concours for truly jaw dropping wetness :thumb:


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

There's some interesting advice going on here. I'm not sure I agree with it all but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to be going near their car with a da or rotary & polish/compound without having a number of things inc:
1) PTG
2) Training 
3) If no training then at least experience with practice panels
4) adequate prep
5) knowledge of how to minimise inflicting more damage in your normal cleaning process
6) IPA

If none of the above:
7) a willingness to pay for a respray.

If you're a 'n00b' then my advice is to choose between removing swirls or masking them. If you're happy to mask them then you want a DA, finishing pad & glaze (not a polish). Ideally get some clay & tardis to prep the paint beforehand.

If you really want to remove the swirls I would recommend a rotary - I only ever use my DA for glazing these days. Rotarys aren't fire breathing dragons that some people think and need the same level of training/practice as a DA IMO. You'll also need the other things I mention.

To summarise... Masking will cost well under £100 while removing will cost £250-£300.

I'd go for masking because it's easier, cheaper and less risky. You can always remove them later if you get into it.


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## samion (Apr 12, 2011)

billyp said:


> unfortunately you will not get rid of swirls/scratches by hand but you can hide them a bit if they're not too deep so if you are sticking with halfords i would get ag srp and also ag uds the srp will help to maybe rid the very very fine stuff and it will give a good shine and also a base to apply a coat of uds which is good on black and helps cover the swirls, there is other products available out there but imo thats the best from halfords for the job you have on hand, mind don't use too much of these products or any others as it will be easier to buff off if applied thin


What's the difference between them? Must I use both? Don't I have to wax on top?


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## samion (Apr 12, 2011)

Mr Face said:


> Hi Fella, welcome :thumb:
> 
> To take a quote from a well know film : if you take the red tablet you will wake in the morning and all of this will be forgotten, inc your swirls. If however you take the blue tablet there's no going back, you have been warned. I do think though you already have the blue tab in your mouth as you've made it this far.
> 
> ...


Thanks but I just don't have the time atm to go for a full swirl removaland certainly not learn to use a machine and risk messsing up my car

My hunch is that if I polish (or whatever I'm meant to do) and wax well enough it'll look so good I won't be too bothered about the swirls.


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## samion (Apr 12, 2011)

grantwils said:


> Check this post out...
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=211849


Photos not comparing like for like. ie. with bright ligt source showing up swirls. Not enough to give e confidence but thx though.


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## samion (Apr 12, 2011)

country boy said:


> I've been struggling with swirls on my black '05 Golf GTi and have tried quite a few different things (like you this is all by hand). I've tried SRP,Lime Prime and PB Blackhole all with differing degrees of success. Today i got some Megs Ultra Compound and some German applicators and did a couple of test patches on my car and i must say i'm amazed,its certainly not 100% corrected but the difference is brilliant. I got the stuff from www.elitecarcare.co.uk,def a combination i'd recommend for a black car and you can then top it with your favourite wax.


Certainly the youtube clip by Meguiars makes it look too good to be true and what I'mleaning towards atm.


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## samion (Apr 12, 2011)

grantwils said:


> There's some interesting advice going on here. I'm not sure I agree with it all but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
> 
> I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to be going near their car with a da or rotary & polish/compound without having a number of things inc:
> 1) PTG
> ...


Masking sounds more realistic to me I guess but I'mmore confused than ever now sorry.

NOT to go for AG SRP/UDS because thy're polishses? But I thought they mask swirls.

And as a noob, far too scared to use a machine thingy of any sort.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

samion said:


> Photos not comparing like for like. ie. with bright ligt source showing up swirls. Not enough to give e confidence but thx though.


Check out the 50/50 of the tyre cover. That'll give you a very good comparison. 1 light source but half glazed half not.



samion said:


> Masking sounds more realistic to me I guess but I'mmore confused than ever now sorry.
> 
> NOT to go for AG SRP/UDS because thy're polishses? But I thought they mask swirls.
> 
> And as a noob, far too scared to use a machine thingy of any sort.


I'd read some of the newbie sticky's in the newbies forum which will explain the difference between polishes, glazes and the different LSP's.


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## Chicane (Mar 31, 2011)

gulp. well i ordered this kit yesterday and i will be using it with megs UC and gold class wax on a black car. :buffer:


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## billyp (Jul 24, 2010)

samion said:


> What's the difference between them? Must I use both? Don't I have to wax on top?


Srp has more cut and is an aio which will make the shine and paint in general look better but it will give the uds a good base to work on the uds has more filling ability,
ag suggest that the uds does not have a wax applied but after it has cured i have applied hd wax with good results


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

billyp said:


> Srp has more cut and is an aio which will make the shine and paint in general look better but it will give the uds a good base to work on the uds has more filling ability,
> ag suggest that the uds does not have a wax applied but after it has cured i have applied hd wax with good results


uds is the complete aio and srp is recomended to be topped for best results,using uds over srp will remove the work the srp had done as there both polishes so you will be polishing out the fillers in srp by using uds over the top,1 or the other and srp is the winner between the 2 no doubt:thumb:


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## ginge7289 (Feb 21, 2011)

Chicane said:


> gulp. well i ordered this kit yesterday and i will be using it with megs UC and gold class wax on a black car. :buffer:


You will be fine


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## ginge7289 (Feb 21, 2011)

From what I read, you do not have time to correct the paint,, which is fine, we all have busy periods in our life and paint correction takes time. 

What I suggest, is wash, no point claying. Use AG SRP to fill as many marks as possible then poor boys blackhole to fill the rest and finally finish with the polish of choice.

This should give a real deep finish, but in bright sun light you will still see some swirls. Only time and hard work will remove them.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

ginge7289 said:


> From what I read, you do not have time to correct the paint,, which is fine, we all have busy periods in our life and paint correction takes time.
> 
> What I suggest, is wash, *no point claying*. Use AG SRP to fill as many marks as possible then poor boys blackhole to fill the rest and finally finish with the polish of choice.
> 
> This should give a real deep finish, but in bright sun light you will still see some swirls. Only time and hard work will remove them.


Really?

I'd say claying and de-tarring will make a big enough difference to make it worthwhile.


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## ginge7289 (Feb 21, 2011)

grantwils said:


> Really?
> 
> I'd say claying and de-tarring will make a big enough difference to make it worthwhile.


I can see your point. It will get it a lot smoother, but in the sun, you will still see swirls. We know that prep work is the key to a great finish and if were not going to do all the prep ( no dis respect cos of the time factor) why would you bother claying?

But I do see where you are coming from, in my eyes, I would clay and machine polish, if it took all night!!!


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Claying won't take long and won't cost much. I don't understand why you'd miss it out. Not required on a weekly wash but on the 6m or annual 'full works' it's worth doing - just IMO.


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## ginge7289 (Feb 21, 2011)

grantwils said:


> Claying won't take long and won't cost much. I don't understand why you'd miss it out. Not required on a weekly wash but on the 6m or annual 'full works' it's worth doing - just IMO.


I agree full works is worth doing, as I said above. but in all fairness from what I have been reading he needs to make the car look good on a short term not long term. If he clays now, he still has to do it before correction.

Again. I agree with you... I would do it all!


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## billyp (Jul 24, 2010)

robinho said:


> uds is the complete aio and srp is recomended to be topped for best results,using uds over srp will remove the work the srp had done as there both polishes so you will be polishing out the fillers in srp by using uds over the top,1 or the other and srp is the winner between the 2 no doubt:thumb:


I have stated uds is a stand alone product, although overall srp is a better product again imo for black paint uds will be the better option imo :thumb:


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## Derek Mc (Jun 27, 2006)

Hi mate,

I was (am) in a similar position to you, no machine polisher experience in the last maybe 15 years, and a black pearl finished vectra in this condition.









I then spent a bank holiday weekend and got this result with my own hands, no machine










It is possible to remove a degree of swirls and holograms etc by hand but prepare to lose one heck of a lot of weight and gain upper body muscle!!!

I enjoyed my "Carobics" session I have to say in a sadistic way it was wonderfully theraputic but with a machine I would have had the same result in half a day I reckon!


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## Lovescars (Dec 17, 2010)

poorsboys blackhole would fill the swirls or invest in a da. it is safe to use and would take alot to do damage as i still struggle remove light scrathes must because off the hard paint


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## ginge7289 (Feb 21, 2011)

Derek that is an awesome finish you have achieved by hand, simply jaw dropping. Credit to you.

@ lovecars, I think PBBH is well over rated and in fact SRP would do the same job 100 times better.


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## billyp (Jul 24, 2010)

well done derek mc that must have been some shift just using elbow grease looks great great job.


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## Lovescars (Dec 17, 2010)

bh worked well with da but srp is best all round product by hand


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## ginge7289 (Feb 21, 2011)

Tried it with a DA mate, even did a lot of 50/50 comparisons and saw no difference. Maybe it is good for covering up any marks you dont have time to actually remove, but it actually leaves white marks in any stone chips you have on the car and makes them look worse. Mine is being sold this sunday.....


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## samion (Apr 12, 2011)

Wow! you guys are all extremel helpful. Thank you so much! 

Being a pro on other forums/areas of my life I know how frustrating it can be for a total noob to not bother doing any reading and diving in with Qs, which is why I read the polishedbliss info, looked at the abrasiveness chart, watched youtube videos and read around a bit. But taht clearly wasn't enough as after your advice I had to revisit all of those and read up again. Plus I read every word of the 26pages of DaveKG's incredible comparison thread and all its comments. And now I'm left in a higher state of undertanding I'm sure. But one that asks a few more questions/thoughts  

1) I understand that swirl removal is not the best thing for me. I've not got the detailing bug (yet!). I just want my black car looking good by lay-peron standards not necesarily absolutely 100% perfect(yet), so I think I shall opt for masking as opposed to complete removal.

2) According to polishedbliss site, my Audi paint is extremely hard and they say pretty much nto to even bother by hand - but I'm scared of machines, do not have time/money/inclination to be trained and am scared of doing damage. Is there actually a type of machine that will actually be ok if used carefully? Should I even bother by hand? Or regardless of my hard Audi paint will SRP provide some benefit by hand?

3) After reading DaveKG's comparison thread I've almost come off the idea of Megs UC altogether, thinking I'll just plump for SRP then EGP instead but as my paint is hard would it be adviseable to use UC first? One of my fears with UC is that it's quite cutting and for a noob like me perhaps it's not what I need. But then again perhaps it's exactly what's needed on Audi's tough paint... ?

4) I think I will do some claying first maybe as I've just bought the car secondhand and who knows how well it's been looked after or what's stuck on the surface. I appreciate it takes time but maybe I should give a good claying if it might make a small difference to the finish...

5) In terms of protecting the SRP, do I need EGP or can I go with any wax/glaze?

Apologies if this still is very noobish. I have done a fair bit more reading but I am still quite new to this. All help/opinions much appreciated


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

samion said:


> 2) According to polishedbliss site, my Audi paint is extremely hard and they say pretty much nto to even bother by hand - but I'm scared of machines, do not have time/money/inclination to be trained and am scared of doing damage. Is there actually a type of machine that will actually be ok if used carefully? Should I even bother by hand? Or regardless of my hard Audi paint will SRP provide some benefit by hand?


SRP is very good stuff, and has the benefit of being one option where for £7 you can nip down your local Halfords and have an idea what it will/won't deal with by 3pm today.

It will deal with some swirls and what it can't remove it will help fill so it's certainly worth a go depending on what you want to achieve.

If you do look into getting a polishing machine just ensure it's a DA (dual action) machine as unless you do something *really* badly wrong you won't do any damage with it - rotaries start off a lot cheaper so they're tempting, but probably not something you want to use right away on your Audi (get it wrong and you'd be happy to have the swirls back).


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## samion (Apr 12, 2011)

hutchingsp said:


> SRP is very good stuff, and has the benefit of being one option where for £7 you can nip down your local Halfords and have an idea what it will/won't deal with by 3pm today.
> 
> It will deal with some swirls and what it can't remove it will help fill so it's certainly worth a go depending on what you want to achieve.
> 
> If you do look into getting a polishing machine just ensure it's a DA (dual action) machine as unless you do something *really* badly wrong you won't do any damage with it - rotaries start off a lot cheaper so they're tempting, but probably not something you want to use right away on your Audi (get it wrong and you'd be happy to have the swirls back).


SRP even on my hard paint? I hope so!

As time is a factor, it may well be financially a better option to get myself a machine if it cuts down the time and improves results.

I didn't know there were different sorts of machines tbh I though they all just, erm, rotate! I wonder if the scaremongering posts I read about were actuall about the "rotary" then and not the DA?


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## ginge7289 (Feb 21, 2011)

SRP has a lot more fillers than it does abrasive's mate, there is a thread on here about removing swirls by hand, and SRP has been applied in 5 coats and the difference is awesome. It does a real good job of filling swirls and giving a nice deep gloss finish. You will need wax to mate, or a sealent, that is a choice for you to make which one you want as there are so many.

DA's are quite easy to use, watching videos on you tube and stuff may make you confident enough to try it and if your paint is hard and have not had any touch ups, using the right pads and right compound, you will be fine.


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

samion said:


> SRP even on my hard paint? I hope so!
> 
> As time is a factor, it may well be financially a better option to get myself a machine if it cuts down the time and improves results.
> 
> I didn't know there were different sorts of machines tbh I though they all just, erm, rotate! I wonder if the scaremongering posts I read about were actuall about the "rotary" then and not the DA?


I can't honestly say how much good it will do, but it can only do good, it won't do any harm at all - just be aware that it's going to be filling more than it will be removing.

As for the polishers, I'd be fairly confident that all the cases you read of were about rotary machines - I can't recall reading of anyone doing damage with a dual-action machine (unless they were using it on damaged paint or something stupid).


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## samion (Apr 12, 2011)

ginge7289 said:


> SRP has a lot more fillers than it does abrasive's mate, there is a thread on here about removing swirls by hand, and SRP has been applied in 5 coats and the difference is awesome.


Thanks that's the thread I'm talking about. Read it word for word hence SRP for me it seems but I am wondering whether UDS is the same thing but better for black cars?


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## Clean me (May 17, 2009)

Hi all,

Sorry OP I was going to start my own thread but I too have a black 2007 Audi in a similar state.

I have a DA with megs 80, 83 polish and megs cutting, polishing and finishing pads. So can I get by with this or will it be too hard going?

I suspect that it may be hard work so was considering megs 105 polish on a cutting pad (or can I go too abrasive) followed by 205 to finish? Any hints for other products that may be more appropriate for correction work without overdue stress on this type of paint?


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## ginge7289 (Feb 21, 2011)

Clean me said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Sorry OP I was going to start my own thread but I too have a black 2007 Audi in a similar state.
> 
> ...


Start with a polishing pad with the least abrasive and see how you get on. Do not start with the biggest cutting pad and polish, work your way upwards. If a polishing pad and megs 80 does the trick then no need to take any extra CC off.


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## ginge7289 (Feb 21, 2011)

samion said:


> Thanks that's the thread I'm talking about. Read it word for word hence SRP for me it seems but I am wondering whether UDS is the same thing but better for black cars?


I never used UDS mate and i too have 2 black cars, but I can honestly say SRP is very good.


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## Clean me (May 17, 2009)

ginge7289 said:


> Start with a polishing pad with the least abrasive and see how you get on. Do not start with the biggest cutting pad and polish, work your way upwards. If a polishing pad and megs 80 does the trick then no need to take any extra CC off.


Yes, yes of course :wall:. What I'm after is a product recommendation from someone who is familiar with using a DA on VAG paint :thumb:


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## ginge7289 (Feb 21, 2011)

Maybe this will help

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=59382


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## samion (Apr 12, 2011)

It seems I'm all set for SRP followed by EGP and maybe I'll buy some UC as well as the offer's on to use later if I'm not too happy with the result.

Now I'm just a little confused about whether ALL I need is EGP for that nice waxy glossy beady look or whether I actually need a wax of some sort? Or both?

Halford's sell a wax called "Mei's". The main guy there who seemed to know what he's talking about said he likes it (but admitted it was just personal preference). *IF* I need a wax does anyone know if this is a good one? Or should I be fine jut with EGP?


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## Sirmally2 (Feb 28, 2011)

I used to use the AG before i started using CG products! If you are doing it on a black car for swirls, SRP is a good infiller which lasts for a good while. 

EGP is a last stage product just like the HD wax, but from what i was reccomended i would go for the HD wax over the EGP... you get better beading and its alot more durable! The EGP doesnt appear to last so personally id choose the HD wax over the EGP.


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## billyp (Jul 24, 2010)

Sirmally2 said:


> I used to use the AG before i started using CG products! If you are doing it on a black car for swirls, SRP is a good infiller which lasts for a good while.
> 
> EGP is a last stage product just like the HD wax, but from what i was reccomended i would go for the HD wax over the EGP... you get better beading and its alot more durable! The EGP doesnt appear to last so personally id choose the HD wax over the EGP.


hd i would agree gives a better look and is durable but i would not knock egp as it is a very durable product, but the op could use any wax or sealant over his srp


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