# Be honest you pro's



## Mullins (Aug 7, 2009)

Do you look at some of the work here and think 'dam they are good' I have spent many hours reading here and looking at the showroom and a lot of the novices like me can turn out the same quality of work, albeit we dont want to or cant chose it as a living.

Apart from the wet sanding gods :thumb: it seems most can reach the same level of a full correction. Well i say most. granted there are a few here that should step away from a DA...


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## alxg (May 3, 2009)

I think what seperates the hobbyist from the pro is the stuff they can see in the paintwork that us mere mortals don't.
My example would be that I consider myself to be fairly proficient with my G220 and have done several cars to a standard I was very proud of, and the owners very happy with. But when I wanted to get my own car absolutely perfect and was struggling a little (Phantom Black Audi paint) I phoned Baz @ AutoDetox to take a look.
On his inspection he noticed some paint defects and a couple of light holograms that I was totally unaware of  and it is this level of knowledge that makes the pros just that IMO; to be able to correct swirls is one thing we pretty much all do, to analyze and interpret the surface and know exactly what /why is happening is the "next level".


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2010)

To be a pro it's so much more than just knowing what the defects are and how to fix them,alot of things are overlooked in this trade.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

T4RFY said:


> To be a pro it's so much more than just knowing what the defects are and how to fix them,alot of things are overlooked in this trade.


I agree Spotting different paint finishes on the same car or smart repairs. Is a skill on its own. As differential paint will react totaly different to the same polish/pad combo. I could go on !!!...............:thumb:


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## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

It takes knowledge of the materials used, experience is see defects and using methods that succeed in removing them, talent and skill in using the correct tools and "Attention to detail"


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## eddiel34 (Mar 22, 2008)

I think we need to differentiate between good/bad pros and good/bad amatures.

If I turned pro tomorrow would I be a better detailer? Think of all the threads on here about poor paint jobs performed by pro painters, or any line of trade for that matter.

I think a good pro would come into his own when you take into account that there is no substitute for experience and these guy are seeing and dealing with the full spectrum of faults on different paints on a daily basis. Practice makes perfect.


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

I look at everyones work with a clean slate and alot of people are very good.

I do it as a living and sometimes after 7 days and nearly 90 hours of work i think "I'm so tired i couldnt look at another swirl so i browse others work and it gets me back in the mood lol


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## David (Apr 6, 2006)

how is your concentration after working solid for 7 days?

i can barely manage 5 days without going skelly-eyed 

maybe i just prefer my weekends off..


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2010)

It depends on people's threshold,i've done 7days all 5am starts,it is tiring but the results are worth all the hard work


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## SNAKEBITE (Feb 22, 2010)

I would imagine experience is the key factor.
If you see a dozen cars a week you are going to come across more different problems and have the knowledge to fix those problems.
If you just do your own car then you are just going to experience the problems on your car. Realisticaly not that many.

Hopefuly.


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## J1ODY A (Nov 28, 2008)

Showshine said:


> I look at everyones work with a clean slate and alot of people are very good.
> 
> I do it as a living and sometimes after 7 days and nearly 90 hours of work i think "I'm so tired i couldnt look at another swirl so i browse others work and it gets me back in the mood lol


I was going to say something similar... I mean I don't mind taking 3 days out to give my truck a good going over now & again BUT getting up most morning knowing I have to go through all that on another car would send me over the edge day in & day out! :doublesho


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## Dan J (Jun 18, 2008)

experience means alot in the valeting/detailing trade, ive seen unexperienced guys using rotorys and the wrong compounds/pads and wrecking the paint bigtime, as said above being able to spot defects/fresher paint etc and knowing your gear is key.
ive been doing this for 16yrs now and im still learning new stuff every day and still lovin it.


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

Most of the time i enjoy looking after our cars, i even enjoy doing some of the familys cars, but i would never ever fancy doing it as a job......

Its too much like hard work lol

I think the more cars you do the better you prefect your skills in every area... correcting 3-4 cars a year is ok, but your nearly re-learning again.... washing however 2-3 time a week means im just getting better and better.

Cheers

PaulN

Ps i enjoying reading joe publics write-ups as much as the Top pros....


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## glymauto (Feb 29, 2008)

The pro's must have backbones made of steel to do this every day.

I did my car, my Dad's car and my van. My back ached for a fortnight.... I could hardly stand up straight!!


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

David said:


> how is your concentration after working solid for 7 days?
> 
> i can barely manage 5 days without going skelly-eyed
> 
> maybe i just prefer my weekends off..


I hate working 7 days mate and if/when i get a day off i feel great and fresh.


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## kevinML320 (Apr 24, 2010)

I have to disagree with the first comment. I'm sorry but I am a complete novice so have spent alot of time on detailing world for advice. 

And reading different threads I think the pros take things to a completely new level what they do is absolutely superb and alot of hard work and knowledge they have tryed and tested throughout the years go into it.

Not to take anything away from amatuers as I have seen some fantastic work done.


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## David (Apr 6, 2006)

Showshine said:


> I hate working 7 days mate and if/when i get a day off i feel great and fresh.


too right, i work 8 til 4 tuesday to saturday (half day)

that'll do me :thumb:


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Knowing the product and how it works, how to apply and remove are key factors, down to operation of correct tools and how they work best.
knowing the benefits of using certain products and so on.
There has always been a fine line between valeting and detailing but imo, without doing some form of trdae work you will never know and appreciate what actually goes into the everyday pro detailer sides of things.
Each day is a learning curve be it pro or amateur as no 2 cars are the same so an open mind is always essential.
Ive seen some seriously excellent work by hobbiests and likewise from pro's this doesnt say there is a divide other than one does it for pleasure the other does it for a career.
I was discussing this with purple haze ealier and even after 16 years for either of us its all about now and no the same thing every day.
The real appreciation should go towards the major hours labours that go into some of the most asthetically pleasing gloss paints that are achieved and the quality that is seen after the craftsmanship is complete be it by pro or amatuer.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Its also very hard to see the _true quality of the work_ from photographs or videos - in my opinion, you really have to be up close and personal to judge a finish. Pictures, correctly taken ones at least, go a long way to showing the quality of the work, but to really judge, you have to be up close and personal.

There is a lot to see in a finish - its not just a case of swirl removal, paint defects are vast in their nature and require many different techniques to fully correct. And of course, this is just the paint - detailing is about the car, the paint is just one bit of the story... the bit of the story I personally specialise my own detailing in, in that its the bit I enjoy most, but you have to look at the big picture


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

As I have said before, detailing seems to have become the new 'property developer' in that every week on here you get people going pro...

Usually the next questions are which pads/polish for xxx car 

it takes lots of skill, knowledge, and experience to be a professional in anything, and detailing is no different...

Personally I know I don't have what it takes to be a pro, plus I wouldn't take the wage cut (going to working for myself, building up clients etc) but I know that I have already fixed 2 cars in my area completely f******d up by the same 'pro'.....

A van, flyer and rotary DO NOT make a professional....

:thumb:


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## Mullins (Aug 7, 2009)

kevinML320 said:


> I have to disagree with the first comment. I'm sorry but I am a complete novice so have spent alot of time on detailing world for advice.
> 
> And reading different threads I think the pros take things to a completely new level what they do is absolutely superb and alot of hard work and knowledge they have tryed and tested throughout the years go into it.
> 
> Not to take anything away from amatuers as I have seen some fantastic work done.


Not sure if the 1st comment you refer to is my original post? If so have you looked at the showroom and seen the before and afters that the non pros have produced, some of them are stunning.

I guess detailing is similar to my trade as a carpenter, i could give you all my tools but you wont be able to produce what i can, i suppose the way that i have a 'feel' for wood, and know whether it will split with a screw or nail without pre drilling it, how hard i can hit the chisel without going too deep or splitting etc.

The same probably applies to the pros having that same 'feel' for paint. The same is in my trade, we can all pick holes with anyones work, this i guess applies to detailers:thumb:


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Got to agree there Dave, detailing is about much more than just paint correction, and pics on a web site really dont show a finish off, i see alot of posts in the studio as well as the showroom using trick light angles, also i see alot of cars detailed by others and correction is some times acceptable in the top surfaces but side skirts and other lower areas never up to much. 

The other difference is doing it as a profession day in day out, on varying conditions of vehicles, all with different paint hardnesses and thicknesses.

If i had all the time in the world to detail a car to as good as i could it would not be hard work, as soon as id had enough id pack it in for the day, but sadly when its your lively hood you cant pick and chose like that, you will have a time scale to work to (usually guestimated by your self) when that ones done and you have had your 10 mins to stand back and admire your work before the owner wizzes away in there shiny car, you got to get started on the next (we usually have 2-3 details at varying stages going on in the workshop) its a job and not an easy one. 

Another is product knowledge and knowing how to deal with varying situations, knowing what product and technique will over come and correct varying defects, it stems further than that, trim, glass, wheels, arches, interiors, you need to know your products inside out. 

There are plenty of good detailers who dont do it as a living on here, and there are plenty of not so good ones who do do it as a living on here, it dont have to be your profession for you to be good at, but doing it as a hobby and as a living are not even close to be alike.

Im sure there are plenty of people handy at wood work who dont do it as a living


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## kevinML320 (Apr 24, 2010)

No sorry I didn't see that thread I was talking about the comment on this thread.

I didn't mean to totally disregard the comment. I can see your point but I just think that there is alot more to it and this is only gained from day to day experience and knowledge. 

Its like being a university graduate in mechanics your know in theory what should be done by learning on paper but if you take the tools and try to do the job there are "tricks of the trade" and problems you come across that only experience will get you through. 

The pros are excellent at what they do!


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## PootleFlump (Jan 1, 2006)

I think anyone could ultimately detailed to a great level, competance does tend to grow with experience, whether you could make it a commercial venture and do it day in and day out, I certainly couldn't but nor would I want to.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2010)

Its a good job..


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Must admit and this is where I didnt add is that there is all manner of aspects on the vehicle that have to be attended to to complete the puzzle.
Seeing smeared glass and tired arches that arent dressed on a freshly corrected car ruins the job and doesnt give a complete finish.
There is 101 products taht actually do certain jobs on a vehicle which you wouldnt think possible, WD40 for instance and so on.
Its all these little things that when added together achieve what is a competent pro.


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## Mullins (Aug 7, 2009)

kevinML320 said:


> No sorry I didn't see that thread I was talking about the comment on this thread.
> 
> I didn't mean to totally disregard the comment. I can see your point but I just think that there is alot more to it and this is only gained from day to day experience and knowledge.
> 
> ...


I know what you are saying, we get guys out of college that are qualified to be site managers...well you know how that will work out, nothing beats hands on experience, even a degree and all the papers you can shake a stick at dont mean you are any good at your job.

I must admit i have only just got my card as an advanced carpenter after doing the job for 22 years, i got taught but didnt do college, never been out of work and am only qualified now because of all the health and safety crap needed on sites, even my instructor saw me working on site asnd basically said ill fill all the paperwork in...you carry on :lol:


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## simpsons ! (Oct 7, 2008)

I'm not sure if I can comment or not? 

I am a Pro but not a DW Supporter I certaily can't post pictures:wave:

Michael


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

simpsons ! said:


> I'm not sure if I can comment or not?
> 
> I am a Pro but not a DW Supporter I certaily can't post pictures:wave:
> 
> Michael


you were showing pics with your company name in - which you don't pay to do


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

A lot of the 'better' non pro's aren't allowed to post their work on here (without paying the supporters fee, which is fair enough!), but if it really is just a casual hobby, then I don't see why they should!

Also, what do you class as a Pro OP? Someone who has paid £200? Or someone who is full time and has been doing it for years?


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

RussZS said:


> A lot of the 'better' non pro's aren't allowed to post their work on here (without paying the supporters fee, which is fair enough!), but if it really is just a casual hobby, then I don't see why they should!
> 
> Also, what do you class as a Pro OP? Someone who has paid £200? Or someone who is full time and has been doing it for years?


understand what you're saying russ but if its a casual hobbby then there wont be endless threads and no weblink/company names so it should all be ok?


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## simpsons ! (Oct 7, 2008)

-Kev- said:


> you were showing pics with your company name in - which you don't pay to do


I was very careful not to show the company name on purpose, So that's not true, 5 threads i posted were deleted.

Don't worry one day you will be asking me to sponsor DW, Like I also sponsor 3 other sites.

I ASKED to Sponsor on here and was ignored...... TWICE!

Michael


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Deano said:


> understand what you're saying russ but if its a casual hobbby then there wont be endless threads and no weblink/company names so it should all be ok?


Totally agree


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

what do you want a sponsored section or DW supporter so you can show your work?


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

simpsons ! said:


> I was very careful not to show the company name on purpose, So that's not true, 5 threads i posted were deleted.
> 
> Don't worry one day you will be asking me to sponsor DW, Like I also sponsor 3 other sites.
> 
> ...


didn't know you had to ask to become a supporter - don't think i did.. 
the thread you posted of a Porsche (iirc) had your name in most pics...


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## simpsons ! (Oct 7, 2008)

simpsons ! said:


> I was very careful not to show the company name on purpose, So that's not true, 5 threads i posted were deleted.
> 
> Don't worry one day you will be asking me to sponsor DW, Like I also sponsor 3 other sites.
> 
> ...





Deano said:


> what do you want a sponsored section or DW supporter so you can show your work?


My point exactly:lol:

Michael


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

there's a distinct difference. whizzer will have to approve you to sponsor a section, thats the little pics you see next to a subforum with a company logo on. this is much more expensive than...

being a supporter. you can post in the studio with your company name in full view and have a weblink in your profile,company logo as avatar and a signature. this you dont have to ask for. go to user cp and select subscriptions and follow the onscreen prompts.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Loads of good non pros show there work here, however you know very well loads are doing it for cash, dropping "client" and trying water marking pics, getting a pic of there work van in the back ground, if your trying to promote a service through the forum its to right have to to contribute like the rest of us do.

My personal view is your "profession" is what you earn a living from, thats a "pro" it dont really have much to do with skill level sadly, but then thats what makes a good business or a poor one, skill and workmanship, many disagree and thats there opinion, but thats my view.



simpsons ! said:


> Don't worry one day you will be asking me to sponsor DW, Like I also sponsor 3 other sites.


:lol::lol::lol: dont hold your breath :tumbleweed:


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## Eurogloss (Jan 22, 2008)

Showshine said:


> I look at everyones work with a clean slate and alot of people are very good.
> 
> I do it as a living and sometimes after 7 days and nearly 90 hours of work i think "I'm so tired i couldnt look at another swirl so i browse others work and it gets me back in the mood lol


+1 :thumb:


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## Eurogloss (Jan 22, 2008)

Showshine said:


> I hate working 7 days mate and if/when i get a day off i feel great and fresh.


The detailing trip i did here in Sydney , Australia a month ago i had to work six days and very long hours for three weeks !

My back and bones where aching but at least i make very good money so it was worth the effort !

Plus my clients where very happy with the detailing jobs i did on there supercars and that alone has got to make you feel good !


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## Eurogloss (Jan 22, 2008)

One word practice and plenty of experience makes perfect detailers well almost !

We are all here to learn regardless on how many years you are in business the pros like myself do it for a living and obviously will spot certain things that a hobbyist won't . 

However, you never stop learning that's what makes a great detailer or hobbyist to an average detailer or hobbyist , IMHO


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> There is a lot to see in a finish - its not just a case of swirl removal, paint defects are vast in their nature and require many different techniques to fully correct. And of course, this is just the paint - detailing is about the car, the paint is just one bit of the story... the bit of the story I personally specialise my own detailing in, in that its the bit I enjoy most, but you have to look at the big picture


Very true, paint correction plays a big part of detailing and adding a gloss to a finish is easy but actually knowing how to tackle defects comes with a good eye and knowhow, but the small touches add a huge difference and are often overlooked, not all waxes and sealants will work to their full potential on every car some may be hard to apply and remove, some will add little to the overall finish.
Having different paints and how to overcome the problems that occur come with experience, not all are a case of choosing a pad and polish and then going at the car to remove the defects, often I find the need to change the pad, polish or technique for each panel because whilst one may work a treat the other may heat up prematurely and spit polish out, it should also be noted that miracles cannot be worked, some defects will not be removed and through experience it's a case of knowing how far to take them for improvement without causing permanent damage, this comes with patience.
Over the years many of the long standing detailers would have tackled most models of car, this goes a long way to putting a customers mind at rest and a headstart to knowing what works on the various parts of the paint, trim etc..

Back to the OP, yes I have witnessed a few guys cars at meets that detail there cars in an enthusiast capacity, and the finish and eye to detail is very good.:thumb:


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## carrera2s (Jun 28, 2009)

Mullins said:


> The same probably applies to the pros having that same 'feel' for paint. The same is in my trade, we can all pick holes with anyones work, this i guess applies to detailers:thumb:


Any one can pick holes in anybodys work!:thumb:


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## MrD06 (Mar 22, 2006)

A Pro just means you make a living out of it.

There are many hobbyist who can do the same.

it's the same with Photography all a pro means is you make a living from it and it's not a hobby.

Infact some hobbyist do better work due to not having time limits on cars like a pro has.
I would have to pay a Pro 3 days labour to get my car looking how I have got it.

Some hobbyist even own more kit than some pro's becasue it is a hobby and they don't mind speding large ammounts of cash on a hobby.

A business needs to make money and so have cash constraints.

I have also noticed alot are tied into using a product they are tied into, even though it might not be the best for that job. I see a lot of SwissVax detailers as an example, who would then not use Zym*l lol

again a hobbyist will not put up with such constraints.


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## nicp2007 (Apr 25, 2007)

MrD06 said:


> A Pro just means you make a living out of it.
> 
> There are many hobbyist who can do the same.
> 
> ...


you are slightly off the mark with the SV or Zymol or dodo approved detailers though, they are not really tied down to using those products but probably like to use those products so then set about contacting the relivent manufacturer to become a approved detailer, they can use any other brands if they wish though :thumb:


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## MrD06 (Mar 22, 2006)

thats the point I was trying to make though

a "approved detailer," does not make you a Pro but a lot of people seem to have that sig.

I already run my own business in another area., so have no need to makemoney from cleaning cars. 

but this "approved detailer," thing is funny imho. it not like it's 6 years in college is it lol.
Not saying that it's not a skill or hard work though. I hate cleaning my car for more than 2 hours, so doing someone elses for 8 hours would pi55 me right off.

It takes me 2 weeks to detail my car, 1 pannel at a time before I have lost interest lol


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