# Most companies are just rebrands. Who isnt?



## NorthantsPete (May 18, 2016)

..Interesting video here





So who makes what we buy.. and are we just buying the same products over and over, wastign cash ont he same chemicals. if so we have a service to know, surely. For our pockets sake - maybe laws need to be in place to show they are distributors of xyz, not "hey look, spend here, we're new"

I found this route of thought when I want down the Demon shine line.. .who makes them... do they know my paint....are they british (to help british companies through Brexit).....why did the TFR take off my windscreen repair

They are Tetrosyl.

Oh look they make T-cut.... Carplan.....Carlube! (good oils)... Nitrox.. Tripplewax.... OK OK they're massive.

What about my waterless wash product from PRO-KLEEN.. .woah they do patio cleaners... and wait, theyre owned by Hygiene Supplies UK ltd.... who make..... pesticides, nappy bins, hand driers.... ok massive too.

Do these guys know how to care for clearcoat? Up to you on that one! However, its nice to see where the money goes and who actually makes them and if they actually know what they're doing to my car (or my health!)

DoDo - bit more obvious there, quite transparent, Bilt hamber too, little lab down the road from Dodo.... AngelWax, a little lab in Scotland.

I finally got to the bottom of who owns Autobrite, and i wont be using them.

For me, the more transparent the better - Meguirs annoyed me when they said they didnt have fillers in a product - checked the safety sheet and it had clay - reason: filler. They locked me out of the forum because they thought their trade secrets were being given away, yet its right there in the safety sheet and ingredients profile ont heir own website! "does the wax contain solvents" was one question "no" came the answer, yet in the ingredients methanol and ethanol! Is NXT wax the same as M21 "no", yet the ingredient profile is the same minus the fragrance.

I didnt last long on that forum as you can imagine - how are you supposed to make good decisions if you cant get straight answers.

Is that Jam? "No its bodywash".... no, its defo jam..."no its a mcBody shine!" ok ill use it.. feels like Jam.... "No, but we do them in a marmalade version aswell"

I know Farecla work with actual clearcoat manufacturers, so that gives peace of mind (ok the whole bodyshop industry uses them so thats not exactly needed!) - they also dont hype their products, one product for each job which i like, like BH

Any others who MAKE their own stuff and work with actual car manufacturers? For me, it gives a level of TRUST.


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## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

Car chem are a big manufacturer, there are a few others but they are the first one that comes to mind.

Interesting to see who else there is 



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## 350Chris (May 12, 2016)

Bouncers are UK based and make all their own products


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## NorthantsPete (May 18, 2016)

350Chris said:


> Bouncers are UK based and make all their own products


 Who actually made stuff FOR DoDo.

Interesting huh! 
DoDo stuff is good, so there;s must be too.


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## NorthantsPete (May 18, 2016)

350Chris said:


> Bouncers are UK based and make all their own products


Then again their citrus stuff comes in tubs you get from A-Chem, a uk company who make stuff for loads of detail brands, so maybe they cant be a jack of all trades

maybe this is where jack of all trades come from, they branch out, dont have the facilities, rebrand a product.


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## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

Chemical guys make there own stuff, as you've found out with meguars, I discovered the no nonsense cleaner and leather cleaner are basically the same going from the safety data sheets.

I think they do it to make it easier for the mass public so they know exactly what to use where and obviously sell more products.

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## NorthantsPete (May 18, 2016)

Rian said:


> Car chem are a big manufacturer, there are a few others but they are the first one that comes to mind.
> 
> Interesting to see who else there is
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


I bet they do a lot seen on facebook rebranded.


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## NorthantsPete (May 18, 2016)

\Rian said:


> Chemical guys make there own stuff, as you've found out with meguars, I discovered the no nonsense cleaner and leather cleaner are basically the same going from the safety data sheets.
> 
> I think they do it to make it easier for the mass public so they know exactly what to use where and obviously sell more products.
> /QUOTE]
> ...


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

No one has mentioned AutoGlym yet - they do everything from start to finish


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## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

GleemSpray said:


> No one has mentioned AutoGlym yet - they do everything from start to finish


I think they are one if the ones that's genraly accepted as making there own stuff e.g most people know they manufacture.

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## JAISCOSSIE (Apr 11, 2006)

Bilt Hamber makes all their own products, don't they?


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## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

JAISCOSSIE said:


> Bilt Hamber makes all their own products, don't they?


They do indeed, the op did mention this in the original post.

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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Define manufacturer. Do you mean laboratory, white coats and raw ingredients? If so it's a lot less than people think


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## MAUI (Feb 1, 2008)

3D has a video of their plant and warehouse.


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## Clean-my-sxi (Feb 5, 2008)

Do autosmart make their own

Or likes of jennychem


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## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

Autosmart do.


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## DLGWRX02 (Apr 6, 2010)

Alien Magic do. They buy in there ingredients have lab technician and the owner that come up with the formulas, they test, manufacture, bottle and ship it. All based in Milton Keynes.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

Rian said:


> I think they are one if the ones that's genraly accepted as making there own stuff e.g most people know they manufacture.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


Indeed they do and their set up is mighty impressive, i did do a write up of a behind the scenes tour that is on here somewhere from several years ago.


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## angelw (Nov 25, 2009)

We do,from development through to manufacturing ,bottling and shipping!
There are a few others,best just ask if you want to know.


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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

angelw said:


> We do,from development through to manufacturing ,bottling and shipping!
> There are a few others,best just ask if you want to know.


Is it standard practice to say tweak perfect polish over the years from testing? Or is it the exact same product?

Just curious.

I only have a few of your products but they work very well. Great labels.

I don't know how many times i looked at your AIO.  But i would be a low volume customer. Weekend warrior.


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Mafra - Labocosmentica do


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## Del-GTi (Mar 31, 2007)

I’m sure Angelwax do.


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## Coatings (Feb 10, 2020)

Car Pros, Gyeon and Tac. System.... rumor was Tac made all their products but I haven’t read different.

Kamikaze
Griots garage
Polish Angel

Adam’s use to make their own stuff but then they got bought by a big manufacturer.


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## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

Of the above listed. They all make their own stuff?.


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## NorthantsPete (May 18, 2016)

Coatings said:


> Car Pros, Gyeon and Tac. System.... rumor was Tac made all their products but I haven't read different.


Yeah they came out with an official statement, asking people to come see their lab, they are in total control of the raws.


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## notfub (May 9, 2007)

Infinity Wax are another that make their own.


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

I guess what you have to also consider is, do the private labels spend time developing heir products?

So what I mean by that is, for example, let's talk PCs. Do HP "make" PCs? Or do they simply order a bunch of motherboards, CPUs, RAM sticks, SSDs etc... Then package them together and ship them out as a HP product.

I guess anyone could approach a manufacturer such as Car Chem, A Chem etc and ask for a range off the shelf with their label on, and call it theirs. 

The real difference are the companies who go to the manufacturer and work with them to develop exactly what they want.

Afterall, do you think Tesco make their own cereal? Or do they work with known manufacturers to develop what they want and stick it in their packaging.

Ultimately, I guess it depends what you want as a consumer.


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## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

RandomlySet said:


> I guess what you have to also consider is, do the private labels spend time developing heir products?
> 
> So what I mean by that is, for example, let's talk PCs. Do HP "make" PCs? Or do they simply order a bunch of motherboards, CPUs, RAM sticks, SSDs etc... Then package them together and ship them out as a HP product.
> 
> ...


There is going to be a mix of companies who do develop there products and others that just have a relable.

Take your HP example you could think of the motherboard and hard drive as the raw ingredients so even if a company makes there own stuff they might not make the raw ingredients

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## JU5T1N (Dec 7, 2019)

There will be brands that come up with the formulation but don't have the facilities to blend and bottle it so will outsource that, there will be brands that will outsource it all and have another company produce the formulation to there specifications. And there are brands that will just rebottle an already existing product.


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## Coatings (Feb 10, 2020)

NorthantsPete said:


> Yeah they came out with an official statement, asking people to come see their lab, they are in total control of the raws.


Was that Gyeon or CP?

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## Coatings (Feb 10, 2020)

Imprezaworks said:


> Of the above listed. They all make their own stuff?.


Yes. Again not 100% on gyeon and CP but Northern Pete seems to confirm one of them is.

The rest, yes to my understanding.

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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Coatings said:


> Car Pros, Gyeon and Tac. System.... rumor was Tac made all their products but I haven't read different.
> 
> Kamikaze
> Griots garage
> ...


I've no idea what and who now, but when gyeon first came out they ran samples on here. Ours came in a big tac systems box. Offended us being honest


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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

stangalang said:


> I've no idea what and who now, but when gyeon first came out they ran samples on here. Ours came in a big tac systems box. Offended us being honest


Fireball used to come in tac bottles too, they have since started to change their bottles.


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## straight6hatch (Jul 17, 2020)

Ive always found this topic to be a bit 'cloak and daggers'. Personally speaking, much like the OP, I would rather know where the stuff is made. Not only to support the home market, but also to try and avoid buying the same product over and over just with different packaging. 

Its quite a challenge though. I have recently bought some products from Valetpro which I was happy with. They also have a huge warehouse and you can actually see some products being made. In that case, its easy to work out. That said, some of the very well publicised (especially on facebook) companies are quite clearly rebottled. I have recently purchased some as a cheap 'give it a go' product range and they will get used one way or another. I suspect theyre made from the same company as another I have so time will tell!


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## Prestige car care shop (Mar 29, 2014)

To the OP 

Adam's Polishes, P&S and Griots all manufacture and develop in house with there own chemists.


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## SmudgerEBT (Sep 24, 2015)

PIP chemicals makes products just to be rebranded.

As in you can't buy off of them, but a fair few detailers and companies sell there products.

One company used to sell there products and thought it a good idea to do a copy but using cheaper chemicals.

Having used both (before and after) you can really tell they have gone the cheap route.


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

Because it is produced at some manufacturers site, it doesn’t mean it’s the same.
You can supply the specs and someone can produce it, all to your specifications.
Is this rebranded? I think it’s more than that, for a small company it’s not interesting to run a batch of 100.000 bottles.
You rather would have 5 different products in runs of 20.000.
Not every company can run botteling plants, not every company can buy base products as turps, etc in tanker load.

In the food industry is this a normal practice, my wife is purchaser for a producer of food bars and they run at least 50 different brands.
Some supply their own raw materials, some only spec the materials and create a recipe. 

Engine oil is another one. Can we call it rebrand? I don’t believe so.

There is a massive producer of car care product who could in the past not fill spray cans, they got an supplier of house cleaning product to put their products in spray cans.

Is a Mercedes Citan van a rebranded Renault? 

There are many product on the market who are not produced by the brand, but are produced due to strict specifications for that brand.
.


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

The burning question that appears to bother some people, i think, is whether any company buys a finished product in bulk from a manufacturer and simply relabels it as a different product under their own name and then sells at an inflated price.

Possibly so, but there is an important middle ground between doing this and the bigger companies who are able to do everything in-house.

Smaller emerging companies will not yet have the volume sales or funding to equip an in house production line and so have no option than to outsource some part of the chemistry and packaging processes.

This doesn't make them "profiteers" or crooks. It can simply be part of the necessary growing pains of a new business.

Personally, i am more bothered by advertising hype, than how and where a product started life.


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## Chris Dyson (Feb 29, 2012)

How about Mitchell and King, does anyone know if they make all their own products or is it just their waxes?


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## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

They do iirc


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## Chris Dyson (Feb 29, 2012)

iirc??


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

Chris Dyson said:


> iirc??


If i remember correctly :thumb:


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

GleemSpray said:


> .......Personally, i am more bothered by advertising hype, than how and where a product started life.


Ah, now that's a whole barrow full of worms to try and keep the lid on :devil:

Andy


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Not this **** again!! :lol:

have a look on companies house for the U.K. if you want to know who is a seller and who is a manufacturer… 

:thumb:


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

NorthantsPete said:


> Then again their citrus stuff comes in tubs you get from A-Chem, a uk company who make stuff for loads of detail brands, so maybe they cant be a jack of all trades
> 
> maybe this is where jack of all trades come from, they branch out, dont have the facilities, rebrand a product.


I can assure everyone on here - EVERYTHING made by Bouncer's is made by Bouncer's - From raw ingredients, and our very own 100% unique blends. Including our very own citrus wash. All in house, all in small volumes.

Hard to find and rare in this market but yes we are small company who can match and exceed product by product with any big player.

We refuse to use rubbish, cheap ingredients, cheap fillers or foamers to pack out our products. - Each blend has taken ages to get right and make.

I guess that's the reason so many of our products have won awards, been nominated and generally everyone who has used them, loves them for what they do.

Trumpet blowing ? - Yes, I guess, but I have every right too because I'm proud of everything I make.

So for the reference point. - Bouncer's is fully in house - fully unique - and we will not change any of that.

Thank you

Jay


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## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

Do you guys ever do deals?. Haven't tried many products by you guys.


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

Imprezaworks said:


> Do you guys ever do deals?. Haven't tried many products by you guys.


Every now and then we have deals, maybe the odd day around black friday / boxing day etc but they are limited days. - At the moment great deals are our mystery boxes - we do tend to overload them a bit :doublesho hence the reason we only put a few up for sale each week as they go so quick.

They do include items that many users have not tried so it's a great way to find something new.


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## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

Didn't realise you did a mystery box. Just bought an infinity wax one otherwise would have been tempted ha ha


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## NorthantsPete (May 18, 2016)

AndyN01 said:


> Ah, now that's a whole barrow full of worms to try and keep the lid on :devil:
> 
> Andy


And for me leads to the queston - DO THEY KNOW WHAT THEYRE DOING?

Take Prokleen for example ,they make patio cleaner and drain unblocker... they have a TFR that took my windscreen crack repair right off!

No offence to any brands but for example - abrasives, a make comes out with a new compound and polish and yes its made in house, but if i went down into the kitchen right now and made 'Petes Rubbing Paste" -despite sounding like a self pleasure cream i doubt any of you would want to try it on your paint?

I guess this is where heritage, business links (farecla working with clearcoat companies), research and scientist 1 who has 3 A-Levels vs scientist 2 "I invented covid vaccine" come into it.

I guess as mentioned earlier, smoke, daggers and the like, we'd be interested in behind the scenes for clarity - no popup facebook detailing reseller will/can do that, whereas my brewery will.


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## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

The Cueball said:


> Not this **** again!!
> 
> have a look on companies house for the U.K. if you want to know who is a seller and who is a manufacturer…
> 
> :thumb:


How does companies House provide this information.

As I thought of this and thought maybe if they were registered to a virtual office they may be a reseller but registered address is not the same as trading address.

Curious to know how you tell just by companies House?

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## Eddmeister (May 6, 2011)

You don't, he's just trying to sound more switched on than you


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Eddmeister said:


> You don't, he's just trying to sound more switched on than you


as long as you think that.. :lol::lol::wave:

It's a wealth of information really... as is this forum.. it's all been done before, and I've explained and shown before...  

:thumb:


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

NorthantsPete said:


> And for me leads to the queston - DO THEY KNOW WHAT THEYRE DOING?
> 
> Take Prokleen for example ,they make patio cleaner and drain unblocker... they have a TFR that took my windscreen crack repair right off!


What dilution did you use it at? Did you use it at the instructed dilution or did you think - "Oh this is Prokleen, may be a bit weak, I'll slosk a bit more in and a drip more for good measure"? If it was at a low dilution, would it have taken the windscreen repair off?

I'm sure they mix their drain unblocker and patio cleaner and then sell it as TFR, then add some colour, water and some sulphates and sell it as snowfoam.

I suppose everyone has to have a way of simplifying the world in their mind so they can make sense of it.


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## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

The Cueball said:


> as long as you think that.. :wave:
> 
> It's a wealth of information really... as is this forum.. it's all been done before, and I've explained and shown before...
> 
> :thumb:


I use companies House daily in my job for various things and know there is a lot of info but still don't see how you can tell if they resell or manufacture, if you've explained before could you link me to the thread, I'm genuinely interested. Thanks

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## galamaa (Aug 3, 2014)

Products sell, if your product is correct and behave same, like words on bottle. There are no difference, is it producer or reseller. If you can make better marketing and good product than others, then you sell.


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## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

Huh?!?


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## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

galamaa said:


> Products sell, if your product is correct and behave same, like words on bottle. There are no difference, is it producer or reseller. If you can make better marketing and good product than others, then you sell.


Yes this is true, iPhone for example, great marketing but most of the stuff isn't made by them.

However I don't think that's the idea of this thread, we are simply discussing who makes and who resellers out of interest as I agree that it doesn't actually matter as long as the product performance as it should.

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## BellUK (Mar 12, 2012)

I'm not a supporter at the moment so I won't mention our company name however we have never hidden the fact our products are not 'made in house' we have a very good working relationship with a chemist and we have products developed for us, we have the emails and the endless samples to back this up so it's not simply a product off the shelf so to speak.

It's actually a system that works extremely well, I have 10+ years as a professional detailer so I know what I want and I know what to expect from a product, a chemist rarely puts the effort in to test as thoroughly as a detailer would and in most cases these companies are dealing in other industries such as janitorial and therefore do not necessarily have enough invested time so that's where we come in, for example it took more than 6 attempts to develop our Glaze until we were happy with the formula and this shows today in how popular it is with customers and the results they achieve.

I don't have a chemistry degree, but I do have a wealth of experience in detailing and I know my customers and their expectations and this shows.

Don't get to caught up in the whole rebranded story, often it's people being snobby simply speak to the business see if they have a story to tell you may be pleasantly surprised and you'll soon learn if they are here to earn a quick buck or are truly passionate about what they do.

Cheers


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## PIP_Chemicals (Oct 26, 2020)

SmudgerEBT said:


> PIP chemicals makes products just to be rebranded.
> 
> As in you can't buy off of them, but a fair few detailers and companies sell there products.


We do not make too much comment on here but I do think there is some degree of misunderstanding of this industry.

You are right, we make products solely for other brands. We don't sell direct because that's what our customers do and there is nothing more annoying that your key supplier undercutting you or pinching your IP/USPs.

More importantly, however, the products of ours which you guys know and love are not generic. They are routinely customised and reformulated to specific needs. No brand has the same ideas and concepts. I acknowledge that there are some brands which don't worry about this and just go and buy the cheapest or easiest options, but many of those you would consider 'rebranders' put a whole lot of effort into what they do. They are not all just paying for the cheapest generic product and putting fancy labels on it.

As for why people don't make their own, well the reality is simple - money and expertise. To give you a bit of scope, you don't buy the ingredients 25kg at a time. You routinely buy 200L or 1000L. Of EACH ingredient. A shampoo alone will set you into many tonnes of materials and many thousands of pounds. Then you need to handle them, mix them (etc). Yes, you can do this small scale but they you are paying through the nose for small volumes and you have arbitrarily high prices. Then there are regulations. Lets not beat about the bush, many of the detailing brands can't get this right even without doing the manufacturing themselves. I am sure many of you will have been unable to find or source a data sheet (legally, this is not acceptable). I am sure you've struggled to read the hazard warnings because of the tiny symbols and text (it's all in the regulations, how small you can go). I am sure you've commented about how some bottles look like drinks bottles (who could have guessed this to be a faux pas?). That's before we even start jumping into the higher chemical regulations governing things like substance registrations, poison centre notifications (etc).

For most small to medium brands, they're better going to someone who can sort this all on their behalf. As long as they are developing the products, who really cares if the development and manufacture is done in-house or not? The only real concern for the consumer is to keep their chosen brand honest.


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## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

Rian said:


> How does companies House provide this information.


On the main _'Overview'_ page relating to a company there is a heading _*"Nature of Business (SIC)"*_. It will give you a good indication as it will show the code and business category that the company has registered itself as being.

For example:

Bilt Hamber are registered for _"Manufacture of other chemical products not elsewhere classified"_

Whereas Gyeon are _"Retail sale via mail order houses or via Internet"_


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

PIP_Chemicals said:


> We do not make too much comment on here but I do think there is some degree of misunderstanding of this industry.
> 
> You are right, we make products solely for other brands. We don't sell direct because that's what our customers do and there is nothing more annoying that your key supplier undercutting you or pinching your IP/USPs.
> 
> ...





Mugwump said:


> On the main _'Overview'_ page relating to a company there is a heading _*"Nature of Business (SIC)"*_. It will give you a good indication as it will show the code and business category that the company has registered itself as being.
> 
> For example:
> 
> ...


Finally....


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## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

Great Post


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## sebjonesy (Dec 15, 2011)

NorthantsPete said:


> ..Interesting video here
> DETALKS - Are YOU Using Rebranded Detailing Products? - YouTube
> 
> So who makes what we buy.. and are we just buying the same products over and over, wastign cash ont he same chemicals. if so we have a service to know, surely. For our pockets sake - maybe laws need to be in place to show they are distributors of xyz, not "hey look, spend here, we're new"
> ...


So, who owns Autobrite? Just had a nosey around the companies house and didn't see anything untoward?


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=138340


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## zoid9969 (Nov 30, 2008)

Mugwump said:


> On the main _'Overview'_ page relating to a company there is a heading _*"Nature of Business (SIC)"*_. It will give you a good indication as it will show the code and business category that the company has registered itself as being.
> 
> For example:
> 
> ...


It's not a complete answer, though, if you're looking to see who makes their own products and who rebrands others. Gyeon is a South Korean company, and claims on their site to manufacture everything in that country. So the fact that their UK company description just says "retail sale" shouldn't set off any warning bells.


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