# Meguiars #205 - The Ultimate Finishing Polish?



## Dave KG

Its called Ultra Finishing Polish and uses Meguiars' new Super Micro Abrasive Technology (SMAT) [am I the only one who thinks SPLAT when I read/type that?!:lol:]... Its been designed to rock the best and be the best finishing polish on the market, no doubting, Meguiars have gone for the jugular of Menzerna here! But for all its advanced technology, it is really any good? Is it the best, or is it just an also-ran....?

Well - here are my thoughts 

I first started trialling Meguiars #205 back in the early months of the year. It would be fair to say then that I saw a potential for this product as not only was it matching the finishes from 85RD with little learning, it was also dealing more happily with sticky paint... I went to buy some, and noticed the price: over £30 for a litre makes it quite expensive, but I went for a bottle to see what like if you really learn its ins and outs - boy, I'm glad I did!

*The Theory*

The vast majority of polishes that see regular use in detailing use what are known as _Diminishing Abrasives_ - these are abrasives that break down over the period of the polishing set, gradually reducing their cut and inceasing the level of gloss they can produce. This places finite work times on them, in that you need to work them for the desired length of time to get them to break down but also once broken down, you cannot work them further for a greater result... But the good side is that they are quite "plug and play": work the polish until the residue goes clear and you pretty much gaurantee a great finish but working the abrasives 

The abrasives used in Meguiars #205 (and also #105) are quite different... _Unigrit_, they remain abrasive at the same level throughout the polishing set and do not break down. In some ways this sounds a bit "wrong" - sure if the abrasive is not breaking down, then it will leave marring in the finish as it always cutting. But this is not the case with unigrit abrasives, simply the application styles and techniques must change to get the best from them. Unigrit is not new - Meguiars have been using them before in the Solo range, MarkV in Mystique for example. You can also vary the cut levels by varying the pad aggression and the pressure applied.

With this in mind, Meguiars #205 is a product that is designed to offer the user a lot of flexibility: pressure and pad variations allowing different finishing and cutting abilities, which we will talk a little bit more about below 

*In Practice*

The old school Meguiars polishes, the #80-series, had long work times and diminshing abrasives... they took a bit of getting used to but were highly capable once cracked. Times moved on, however and Menzerna were beginning to forge a lead in the polish technology front with new players such as Gloss It formulating ranges that were beginning to make the humble #80-series feel dated.

Meguiars' response for finishing polises is #205, and unlike a lot of its competition, they have chosen to go down the unigrit abrasive route described above. A risky move you might think, especially given the #86 Solo polishes lack of finishing abilities compared to its competition, both in-house against #83 and on the market against Intensive Polish, Final Finish etc. But in practice is where you start to realise just how good the move is!

Flexibility is the key... If you just start with #205, and use it as you've used other finishing polishes, you will likely find it a bit mediocre... good, pleasing to use, but nothing special. But #205 is not plug and play. It needs to be learned and you need to invest time and learn to change your techniques a little to really get the best out of what it has to offer. This not only applies to varying the pad to vary the cut, but also varying pressures and speeds midset to achieve the results you are looking for.

I have personally found that for finishing the best techniques are to spread the polish at slow speed, and then at moderate speeds of around 1500 - 1800rpm, work with medium pressure over the rotary head. This medium pressure allows for correction, removal of hazing and working of the abrasives... For finishing, I reduce the speed to 900 - 1200rpm and reduce the pressure to very light, this reduces the cut from the abrasives and transforms to polish from lightly correcting to burnishing. Working times vary from paint to paint, and it is best to experiment a little and learn what will achieve the best possible finish.

The beauty of this polish at this stage was becoming obvious for me - forget it being a pour on the pad and off you go polish. No way. There is much more to #205 than this! If you are willing to put in some time learning and manipulating your technique you can really reap rewards from #205 in terms of working flexibility from a single polish, that has left me feeling fundamental limitations to products using diminshing abrasives. Yes you can vary your technique with these too, but there's a finite working time, and finite level of cut that just reduces your full potential with the products - its a bit like a sports car with the traction control stuck on, you get a great finish automatically, but given a bit more freedom you can do just very slightly better. This is how #205 has left me feeling in practice.

*Results*

Enough talk... lets let the piccies do the speaking now. First of all, a couple of direct sunlight pictures, showing the clarity achieved from #205 used as a finishing polish on details - both cases applied as discussed above, medium then light pressure to burnish the finish:



















On soft paint (Ford above) and more medium hardness paint (Ferrari below), the clairty achieved by learning the polish and the paint was hugely impressive for me.

Some examples of the polish finish under the Sun Gun on recent details where I have used #205 as the finishing polish:








































































































































When assessing the clarity of the finish, look at the metallic flake ping (sealants dont achieve this, a properly burnished finish does ), and the detail of the light sources in that you can not only see no swirls, the reflection is good to the point you can see the detail of the Sun Gun / Camera Flash 

A few pics of cars, finished with #205 as the finishing polish - waxed here as well, but of course this adds little or nothing to the finish. The results you see below owe their clarity, depth and gloss to the finishing polish used, which was #205 in all cases...

















































































































































Have to say, I am very impressed with how it has been working for me lately and based on my current results with it, #205 will become a staple part of my detailing 

*My Opinion*

Best - its a very difficult term, and a very hard thing to say that something is the "best" but for me, #205 certainly comes closer than any other finishing polish to achieving this accolade. Every other I think is great, lovely finishing but just as good really as the next one... 85RD was the exception, but now #205 for me is just that little bit better as once you have learned to be flexible with it, think on your feet, this polish rewards your learning much more... it takes the gloves off, and leaves you, the user, with more choices and this for me is what makes #205 the best finishing polish on the market today... yes, I do think it is better than 85RD. And better still, it has a bit more cut than 85RD _when you want it too!_ But vary your working style and technique to achieve the cut, the paint removal that you are looking for.

Nothings perfect though! The price - over £30 a bottle! Its nearly double that of 85RD, but it isn't doubly as good, remember 85RD is a superb finishing polish... but somehow, the cost will not stop me buying a product which is freeing up in some ways my rotary style, and really allowing me to push my own finishing abilities to new levels.

Against its main competition, #205 is not beaten. 85RD is superb, it is the main rival product but it is fundamentally limited (not a bad thing, its a superb polish) and this just hands the advantage slightly to #205 if you are willing to learn how to maximise its potential. Other finishing polishes from Gloss It, 3M for me just lack that little something over 85RD, and alongside #205 they are still very good indeed but for me, just not quite as good.

Overall - #205 *Ultra* Finishing Polish. I think Meguiars have done well with the name here, a cracking product for the rotary polisher and well work considering if you are looking to take your rotary finishing up just a notch 

Review of performance on DA to follow after more experimentation :thumb:


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## Guest

Nice review, its on my list of things to try once the scholl has gone :thumb:


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## nudda

Dave, as always, SUPERB write-up. Simply the best.
Have ordered some 205 myself so this has come in handy.

Thanks!!

edit : noticed you mentioned rotary polish all the way through. Will this be good for a DA too ?


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## Brazo

Nice write up Dave, am looking to add some new finishing polishes to my setup and may well consider this too:thumb:


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## rossi007

great write up as usual Dave... :thumb:


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## Bigpikle

thanks Dave - useful write up :thumb:


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## Dave KG

nudda said:


> Dave, as always, SUPERB write-up. Simply the best.
> Have ordered some 205 myself so this has come in handy.
> 
> Thanks!!
> 
> edit : noticed you mentioned rotary polish all the way through. Will this be good for a DA too ?


Initial results for me are suggesting I am getting just slightly better results with 85RD on the DA and the tables turning the other way for the rotary... however its too early for me to say just now, rotary is my primary tool so its always the one I can give a detailed opinion on first... I take more time by DA (strange you may think) as I have to go through various application techniques to see what will work best for me.

Will post up soon when I have my thoughts though, as it may be I just need to vary methods on the DA around a little bit to extract from #205 what I was easily getting by rotary :thumb:


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## Neil_S

Awesome write up Dave, very detailed and well written, I guess it will take something very special to drag me away from 85RD.


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## mistryn

interesting write up there Dave:thumb:
as always i look foward to reading your reviews as it helps me to understand the product far better and its capabilities. in return say someone like a semi :newbie: like myself to polishing is able to comprehend what type results can be achieved with a particular product


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## Gleammachine

Nice review Dave, I have been using #205 for a short while and the finish it produces is right up there amongst the best, I concur the price at first was a shock but after using the product it was soon forgotten, a big fan of the older megs polishes and certainly another decent product to add to the arsenal.


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## NeilG40

Excellent write up, looking forward to the da one.


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## Exclusive Car Care

nice review Dave:thumb: I think I will give this stuff a try..Who sells it here in UK???


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## Dave KG

Gleamingkleen said:


> nice review Dave:thumb: I think I will give this stuff a try..Who sells it here in UK???


Elite Car Care do gallon sizes, is where I got mine  ... But you could get it direct from Meguiars in bulk if you find yourself likely to use a lot of it :thumb:


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## nudda

Dave KG said:


> Initial results for me are suggesting I am getting just slightly better results with 85RD on the DA and the tables turning the other way for the rotary... however its too early for me to say just now, rotary is my primary tool so its always the one I can give a detailed opinion on first... I take more time by DA (strange you may think) as I have to go through various application techniques to see what will work best for me.
> 
> Will post up soon when I have my thoughts though, as it may be I just need to vary methods on the DA around a little bit to extract from #205 what I was easily getting by rotary :thumb:


Thanks Dave. Really look forward to a DA writeup for the 205 - that would make my day !!


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## Dream Machines

thanks so much Dave

It is $70 dollars for 946ml in Australia and really thats no big deal if it performs like you say. 
105 was a massive dissappointment to me so luckily I didn't buy a gallon of it first up

Working times of polishes can be pushed with certain oils and products such as Driven quick spray, green aussie cleaner tasmanian based natural oils, diggers parrafin oil, gloss it EVP and Black baron

I've gotten 85rd to work for ten minutes before and spending 4 mins of that at 1000 then 900, 800 and 600 (for 1 min on it's own) for a sensational finish
that was with the green aussie cleaner on the pad (one small drop) and black baron on the pad

205 certainly sounds like Meguiars best product in two decades. their older mirror glaze products from 1989 to 93 were better than was available up until 2008
I certainly will have a good play with it with various types of pads

ingredients are

aluminium oxide
isoparrafinic mineral oil.
medium aliphatic naptha (kerosene according to inchem.org)
hydrotreated distillate (heavy or light parrafin)
glycerin

it must be all in the way the oxide is milled as to it's performance. 
I wonder if it's a sharp faced abrasive or a rounded face. - might be too sharp for jap paints


cheers for your review


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## ahaydock

Thanks for sharing Dave.

Having been using Megs #205 a lot recently I pretty much agree with all you have said. Whilst breaking down to a superb finish it does have the extra cut. I used it here on a Civic and it gave near on full correction.

Along with the great finish and flexibility I also like its reduced working times it can offer, but as you say the only downside is its higher price tag.


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## Detailed Obsession

I love #205 - it was a product i loved from the very first time i used it. Like Dave, i usually use it on a rotary, but to the poster who asked about DA - i've also found it to be superb. I tested it on a Meg's polishing pad and used speeds 4 and 5 with varying pressure. I found finishing off with a couple of very light passes (i was supporting some of the weight of the machine rather than pressing down on it) moving quite slowly, really help pop the finish :thumb:

The price was a shock - i couldn't believe it when i ordered some cases of it and then the invoice came through :lol: Having used it thought, I'd say it's not unreasonable - it really does give the finish something extra, and the bottle is large enough to last for ages, so the cost of use per car isn't too bad. I've been selling a bit more of it recently, so obviously people are keen to try it out :thumb:

Gareth


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## amiller

you forgot to mention that 205 can be worked literally for ever and ever!

any thoughts on whether you noticed different results using/not using the Zenith point technique which fits around the idea of a "diminishing" abrasive rather than the 205's "unigrit" system.

I enjoyed the finish it left on my golf bonnet that's for sure. reminds me of Dodo Juice LPL to use for some reason.


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## Dave KG

You can use the zenith point with it, and it will deliver good results, but I personally find adding to thie techbique by varying a bit more the pressures and machine movement pace gives the full potential of the product


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## spitfire

Thanks for the write up Dave. Very informative.:thumb: The problem with the introduction of new polishes and for that matter, a lot of other detailing products, is keeping up. For instance, I have 4 different 1 litre bottles of menzerna polishes and at the rate that I polish cars, maybe four a year if I'm lucky, I never seem to use up what I've got. It can be a bit frustrating at times seeing new products like this new polish, but not really having any real justification to buy it. I could buy it but by the time I'd get to use it there'll be something else on the market. Nice to see advances being made though. 

As to a point made by another poster above. How long can you work this polish before having to reapply the product to the pad. Do the carriers dry out? And what would you say the level of cut is, over a set, in comparison to Menzerna polishes over a similar working time?


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## Brazo

Have to say I popped a bottle of this into the basket whilst making an order last night. 

I am concerned that the abrasives don't break down but am really am looking forward to seeing how it actually works! I take it you could work it for 5 seconds or 5 minutes and not get holograms induced by product not breaking down properly that you would get with say #80?

Either way it should work on some ultra soft paint I have next week!


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## Clark @ PB

205 is a very nice product and one I've been playing with for a few months now, still cant decide whether I prefer it over 85RD or Evolution Polish though and there a few more new polishes on the way that I cant wait to try so I'll have to do a bit more playing yet 

It does work well on soft paints though, which you wouldnt think on first impressions!


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## ahaydock

Brazo said:


> I am concerned that the abrasives don't break down but am really am looking forward to seeing how it actually works! I take it you could work it for 5 seconds or 5 minutes and not get holograms induced by product not breaking down properly that you would get with say #80?


That's pretty much what I found and I doubt you'll regret the purchase mate :thumb:


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## Ultimate Shine

Well after Dave's explination of what is inside the polish (Dave you should be a teacher:lol

I had an M3 in today and decided to test this theory out. I bought a Gal of 105 when it came out last year and wondered how i could achieve a good finish out of a major cutting compound

Well dave i was amazed with changing the way you use the product makes it totally amazing.

I tried it with a megs polishing pad and starting off slow and then speeding up to 1600rpm and i applied pressure over defects and then slowed it down slightly just prior to the defect being removed and then moved away from the defect and then back and ramped up again and then some more pressure and then light pressure and then slowed it down and finish. It really doesn't break down at all but you can still finish with a gloss finish.

The product doesn't need much pad prime additive as it stays wet for quite some time.

I done a small test i applied more than normal ammount on the panel and used a megs compounding pad and worked slightly and then stopped before defect was removed and switched to a polishing pad and continued using the same product on the panel untill defect removed and then i stopped again and the switched to a finishing pad for gloss and hey presto it worked.

I wouldn't suggest that you do that i just done it to see if the product could work through the whole process and still produce gloss and a swirl free finish.

It last's for ages with the machine and stop you from having to stop and squirt so many times.

Anyway DaveKG well pointed out as i checked Meg's american forum after for a more indepth explination of the product:thumb:


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## Dave KG

spitfire said:


> Thanks for the write up Dave. Very informative.:thumb: The problem with the introduction of new polishes and for that matter, a lot of other detailing products, is keeping up. For instance, I have 4 different 1 litre bottles of menzerna polishes and at the rate that I polish cars, maybe four a year if I'm lucky, I never seem to use up what I've got. It can be a bit frustrating at times seeing new products like this new polish, but not really having any real justification to buy it. I could buy it but by the time I'd get to use it there'll be something else on the market. Nice to see advances being made though.
> 
> As to a point made by another poster above. How long can you work this polish before having to reapply the product to the pad. Do the carriers dry out? And what would you say the level of cut is, over a set, in comparison to Menzerna polishes over a similar working time?


You can work #205 for a very long time... I have seen a ten minute work time from this product at a consistent 1500rpm, using a 3M finishing pad - this was in the unit, cool conditions, and ideal paint (ie, Menz was not finding it in the slightest tacky)... However, on a particularly sticky paint, I saw the oils of #205 being absorbed cutting the work time to just two or three minutes before the residue vanished and the pad started to drag. If you stopped before this happened, light pressure at the end, you would have an LSP ready high gloss finish. But take it beyond the lube's working time and you will inflict holograms as you up the heat, and up the cut of the abrasives without the lube buffering them - as they are not breaking down, when this happens, the cut goes up and you get marring. So you so have to ensure you dont _overwork_ the polish but the chances of that on most paints is extremely small, only very sticky paints caused this issue... That said, up to the point of the issue, the 205 was gliding away on sticky paint as if nothing was any different, which it has done twice for me now and very rewarding that is too 



Brazo said:


> Have to say I popped a bottle of this into the basket whilst making an order last night.
> 
> I am concerned that the abrasives don't break down but am really am looking forward to seeing how it actually works! I take it you could work it for 5 seconds or 5 minutes and not get holograms induced by product not breaking down properly that you would get with say #80?
> 
> Either way it should work on some ultra soft paint I have next week!


You can vary your work time a lot and still get very good results in the finish - the key is not in the work time anymore, it is in the application method: the speed, the pressure, the machine movement. Its a little bit of a new school of thought if you are used to diminshing abrasives, but I reckon you'll relish this polish Mark as I think your "style" is very similar to mine! 205 offers a flexible and experimental style a lot of fun through its flexibility that make diminshing abrasive products like #80, 85RD etc feel just a bit dated and restrictive.


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## Mr Face

*Megs 205*

Hi Dave, big thanks for your unique and useful insight into Megs 205. As a newbie this was on our list of lust items we had to get and in all honesty have found it not as easy to use until lately and after giving a few samples away and finding out how others with a lot more experienced than us have got the best out of it.

It was put to us in a similar yet very simple way and only now are we getting results all be it they are not yet consistant. Apply to pad and spread at slow speed. Thrash it, at high speed via DA for a few minutes with moderate pressure and then slowly release the pressure and reduce speed to reveal the pefect LSP ready finish.

We now, thanks to you insight will modify this approach slightly and use with a polishing pad and then try that with a finishing pad to see what unfolds.

Thanks again, a thrashing good report:thumb:

Mike & Jnr:wave:


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## Breezy

So Dave how does 205 compare to the other ultimate finishing polish which is Menzerna PO85RD/5RE?


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## Dave KG

Breezy said:


> So Dave how does 205 compare to the other ultimate finishing polish which is Menzerna PO85RD/5RE?


Far more flexible... 85RD is good, very good, beautiful finishes but its fundamentally limited by its diminshing abraisves... 205 I can vary work time and pressure to vary cut, and finishing ability so I have a polish that will cut as much as 106FA yet finish down if anything sharper than 85RD on soft paints.


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## Breezy

Dave KG said:


> Far more flexible... 85RD is good, very good, beautiful finishes but its fundamentally limited by its diminshing abraisves... 205 I can vary work time and pressure to vary cut, and finishing ability so I have a polish that will cut as much as 106FA yet finish down if anything sharper than 85RD on soft paints.


Sounds excellent and whats it like dusting wise?

I need to get a smaple from somewhere!


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## yetizone

Breezy said:


> Sounds excellent and whats it like dusting wise?
> 
> I need to get a smaple from somewhere!


Samples here :thumb:....

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=116323

I just placed and order for a sample and I'm really looking forward to giving it a blast :buffer:


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## gt5500

I guess someone should ask this, how does it compare to diminishing polishes for beginners? is it easier or harder to learn?


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## Ronnie

great write up Dave. My head is now pickleed as what to buy next. how do u rate it compared to the 3M product as I have been getting some really great finishes recently from then esp when using Perfect-it


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## NeilG40

gt5500 said:


> I guess someone should ask this, how does it compare to diminishing polishes for beginners? is it easier or harder to learn?


I'd be interested to know this too.


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## Brazo

Well had a good chance to trial the Meguiars 205 now. Have to say that I am very impressed. I have been sticking with Lime prime as a finishing polish for some time now as its workable in any temp/humidity combo and doesn’t ‘do a Menzerna!’

That said it can be tricky to finish down hologram free as it needs to be taken up to 900-1500rpm dependant upon amount used. That said I was and still am very happy with the finish it gives. Meguiars 205 may or may not ultimately give a better finish but if 10 blokes need to stare at a panel umming over the subtle differences then something’s wrong imo 

Any way back to the Meguiars 205. I used it with 3m yellow and blue pads and tbh found the yellow pads gave it that much more bite. It’s an interesting polish as its not really a polish as we know it, it doesn’t need breaking down and therefore will not hologram if you pile a load of product onto the rotary – give it a quick whiz and wipe off. Indeed it ‘rewards’ you with a great finish although ultimately one that can be bettered! That said the product could turn people into very lazy but very good detailers!!

I found to get the best from the product a longer work time was needed, the product soon ‘disappeared’ and it left you polishing the panel ‘alone’ with just a pad. The speed and pressure of the rotary dictated the cut and I could go on cutting or finishing for as long as I wanted really. This longer work time gave a good cut and a fine, fine finish. You do need to adapt to this though as no longer are you trying to work the polish but you are trying to polish the panel! 

As a ‘next gen’ polish this works very well and will now become my stock finishing polish. It works great in the shade and great in direct sunlight. My only very minor criticism is that if you didn’t use enough product and it dried on the panel in direct sunlight only repolishing would remove the stuck on residue!


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## Breezy

I too have resorted to using lime prime as a refining / finihsing polish as it works so well liek you said in any temeprature without smearing and beeing a PITA to remove like menzerna has been recently in the hot weather.

Just ordered a sample of Meg's 205 too!


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## Detailed Obsession

I used 205 as the finishing polish in a detail on a silver Boxster S on Saturday. It's hard to capture in a photo, and the light wasn't great, but the clarity achieved was fantastic. I worked the 205 for quite a while on each section via rotary, finishing up with lifting some of the weight of the machine off of the panel.

The paint was really reflective and glossy - and the areas that had been finished were really obvious compared to those that had been cut only - not always the case on silver.










Gareth


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## Rowan83

It looks like an awesome polish, will have to try some.

Great review mate :thumb:


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## Dave KG

Breezy said:


> Sounds excellent and whats it like dusting wise?
> 
> I need to get a smaple from somewhere!


I get little or no dusting with it unless you apply too much product... Keep to a bead or two once pad is primed and dust will not cause an issue, even in the sun in recent experiments 



gt5500 said:


> I guess someone should ask this, how does it compare to diminishing polishes for beginners? is it easier or harder to learn?


In some ways, its actually easier as you can get a more forgiving finish - as Brazo says, you can use too much polish with a short work time and get away with it in terms of not hologramming but the finish wont be as good as it could be.

To get the best from it, you need to learn the polish but its not beyond the scope of a newbie to a machine - its just different, not really any more difficult... That is can do more than diminshing abrasives, it means you have more to learn but if you put in the time it will make your polishing far more flexible.

If you have no experience of machine polishing, then it will just mean learning a different technique as your first methods, but if you do then it will mean relearning a little and honing.

Its not difficult to use though - enjoy the experimentation 



Ronnie said:


> great write up Dave. My head is now pickleed as what to buy next. how do u rate it compared to the 3M product as I have been getting some really great finishes recently from then esp when using Perfect-it


It knocks spots off of Ultrafina for its finishing abilities when used to its best, and also for flexibility again... Ultrafina is very nice, but for me, its outclassed by #205 - I now only use it as a buffer for use with Fast Cut Plus.



Brazo said:


> Well had a good chance to trial the Meguiars 205 now. Have to say that I am very impressed. I have been sticking with Lime prime as a finishing polish for some time now as its workable in any temp/humidity combo and doesn't 'do a Menzerna!'
> 
> That said it can be tricky to finish down hologram free as it needs to be taken up to 900-1500rpm dependant upon amount used. That said I was and still am very happy with the finish it gives. Meguiars 205 may or may not ultimately give a better finish but if 10 blokes need to stare at a panel umming over the subtle differences then something's wrong imo
> 
> Any way back to the Meguiars 205. I used it with 3m yellow and blue pads and tbh found the yellow pads gave it that much more bite. It's an interesting polish as its not really a polish as we know it, it doesn't need breaking down and therefore will not hologram if you pile a load of product onto the rotary - give it a quick whiz and wipe off. Indeed it 'rewards' you with a great finish although ultimately one that can be bettered! That said the product could turn people into very lazy but very good detailers!!
> 
> I found to get the best from the product a longer work time was needed, the product soon 'disappeared' and it left you polishing the panel 'alone' with just a pad. The speed and pressure of the rotary dictated the cut and I could go on cutting or finishing for as long as I wanted really. This longer work time gave a good cut and a fine, fine finish. You do need to adapt to this though as no longer are you trying to work the polish but you are trying to polish the panel!
> 
> As a 'next gen' polish this works very well and will now become my stock finishing polish. It works great in the shade and great in direct sunlight. My only very minor criticism is that if you didn't use enough product and it dried on the panel in direct sunlight only repolishing would remove the stuck on residue!


Good to hear your thoughts on it too.. it is forgiving as you say, but the real benefit is how it rewards experimentation and rewards the ability to alter your technique and specialise to the paint you are working on. Looks like there will be a few of us using it as our stock finishing polish


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## MidlandsCarCare

Any thoughts on DA use please Dave/anyone?


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## Dave KG

RussZS said:


> Any thoughts on DA use please Dave/anyone?


Not from me yet, but the weekend brings experimentation


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## MidlandsCarCare

Look forward to your comments Dave. I've just ordered 250ml sample for my PC, so I'll see how I get on


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## Dave KG

RussZS said:


> Look forward to your comments Dave. I've just ordered 250ml sample for my PC, so I'll see how I get on


An interesting article on Autopia about the use of unigrit abrasives by DA suggests greater paint removal with a DA than rotary! 205 wont remove much paint really, but 105 will and it was an interesting read... Something I will also be looking into.


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## MidlandsCarCare

I don't suppose you have a link to that Dave?

Also, have you tried 'Ultimate Compound'? It seems to be a 'retail version' of 205?


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## Dave KG

RussZS said:


> I don't suppose you have a link to that Dave?
> 
> Also, have you tried 'Ultimate Compound'? It seems to be a 'retail version' of 205?


Have been looking for the link but cannot find it at the moment...  ... Its there though 

Not tried Ultimate Compound yet, on my list of trial products


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## Brazo

Dave is the 105 compound a similar product in terms of the above I have described?


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## Dave KG

Brazo said:


> Dave is the 105 compound a similar product in terms of the above I have described?


#105 uses the same style of unigrit abrasives, it is the product the Kevin Brown method (ref: Autopia) seems to be based on... my playing around with it delivered a finish you wouldn't have thought came from a compound but more experimentation to come before I do my writeup on it :thumb:


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## gt5500

Just had a thought, you mention that its expensive but if I am reading it right 205 cuts to different degrees depending on pad and pressure. Does this mean as a newbie that may only polish a car once or twice a year we could get away with buying less polishes? As a newbie I would never aim to get 100% correction as removing deep scratches requires skill both with a PTG and the rotary. I would only ever look to remove the majority of swirls, it sounds as though I could maybe do that using just 205. Polishing is an expensive thing to get into and we don't all have the spare cash to spend on loads of polishes and pads so if I can cut out products that will make it easier. If I am talking balls let me know :thumb:


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## Dave KG

You can certainly vary the cut you have with #205 simply by varying the pad, or also by varying the machine polishing technique (pressures, speeds, work time) - so you do have a very flexible product that for me would take the place of both 85RD and 106FA from Menzerna for example. 

It is an ideal product for light polishing with light pressures, so could be used "regularly", a bit like 85RD. Or it can be used as a light correction polish also, a bit like 106FA


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## Detailed Obsession

RussZS said:


> Any thoughts on DA use please Dave/anyone?


Russ, i touched on DA in post #17; i prefer by rotary but it also seemed to work fine by DA - it gave a great finish when i used it as I described earlier; it also doesn't clog the pad like some polishes do on a DA, which is nice.

As Dave has said, it's so versatile, and yet also forgiving, that it's a great polish to experiment with.

Gareth


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## Bigpikle

think I need to play a little with this stuff, but must confess the price keeps putting me off 

I've had some cracking success with the 203 and 85rd, but it does sound like 205 might be worth some experimentation as well.


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## Guest

Ultimate Compound is cracking by hand, removes oxidation very easily, certainly lives upto the claims made at the megs seminar.


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## Mirror Finish Details

Sounds a good bet, but expensive. Perhaps I may procure a small bottle to try.


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## pete001

I did see the new meguiars #205 finishing polish demo'd at the SEMA show in Las Vegas last November.During the demo they imparted medium swirls on a black bonnet using a DRY wool pad on a DE WALT rotary at around 1800 rpm,Then removed all the swirls using #205 on the new megs black foam finishing pad at around 1200 to 1400 rpm,The test was carried out under very low and mega bright halogen lighting.

I was so impressed with this new finishing polish i managed to wangle a free 1 litre bottle from the meguiars representatives at the show. 

I use #205 most of the time now instead of 85rd achieving identical crystal sharp wet finish in much shorter time.

For medium to hard paints I use the new menz yellow finishing pad

For soft paints I use the 3M blue finishing pad

And yes it is expensive at around £35 for 1 litre but worth every penny IMO.

Apologies to Dave KG for hi-jacking this thread just wanted to add my 2 pence worth.

Pete.


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## Detailed Obsession

Bigpikle said:


> think I need to play a little with this stuff, but must confess the price keeps putting me off
> 
> I've had some cracking success with the 203 and 85rd, but it does sound like 205 might be worth some experimentation as well.


BP - i know what you mean, but it's a big bottle and lasts for ageeeeees  It's a cheap detailing product compared to some of the waxes! 

Gareth


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## yetizone

I received my sample of #205 and finally gave it a try this weekend. Very impressed indeed. I used it on the tail gate of my wife's Passat estate to remove a few swirls and light scratches that had arrived 'from nowhere'.

Applied with a polishing Lake spot pad using a Kestrel DA with enough pressure to allow the pad to spin at roughly 1 - 2 revolutions per second. 

:buffer: Pass 1: Speed 2/3. Pass 2: Speed 5/6. Pass 3: Speed 2/3. Pass 4: Speed 5/6. Pass 5: Speed 1/2.

Although it did not fully remove the two (quite deep) RDS marks, it made a damned good stab at reducing their presence. All of the swirling was gone, finishing down to an LSP level finish. 

I then used the 205 on a finishing spot pad for a few passes at speed 2/3 to just refine a little further with much lighter pressure. And finally another finishing pad with some Chemical guys EZ Glaze, followed by some FK1000P sealant. 

Very nice to use and not as much dusting as I've had with the Menz polishes when working outside in warm weather. :thumb:


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## MidlandsCarCare

Sounds good Yeti, but 203S has more cut, and 205 finishes down a little better, so maybe try the other way around next time?

What do you think of the 203S?

For me, Megs need something in between 105 and 205 (155 maybe?) with as much cut as 203S, but finishes down like 205. That would be a superb polish!


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## yetizone

RussZS said:


> Sounds good Yeti, but 203S has more cut, and 205 finishes down a little better, so maybe try the other way around next time?


Hi Russ - apologies for the confusion - it was a typo :wall: I only used #205 on two different pads to try it out. I don't have any Megs 203. The only other Megs polish I have is a #105 sample which I've not had the time to use. Time was limited today so I concentrated on the 205 :thumb:


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## Dave KG

pete001 said:


> I did see the new meguiars #205 finishing polish demo'd at the SEMA show in Las Vegas last November.During the demo they imparted medium swirls on a black bonnet using a DRY wool pad on a DE WALT rotary at around 1800 rpm,Then removed all the swirls using #205 on the new megs black foam finishing pad at around 1200 to 1400 rpm,The test was carried out under very low and mega bright halogen lighting.
> 
> I was so impressed with this new finishing polish i managed to wangle a free 1 litre bottle from the meguiars representatives at the show.
> 
> I use #205 most of the time now instead of 85rd achieving identical crystal sharp wet finish in much shorter time.
> 
> For medium to hard paints I use the new menz yellow finishing pad
> 
> For soft paints I use the 3M blue finishing pad
> 
> And yes it is expensive at around £35 for 1 litre but worth every penny IMO.
> 
> Apologies to Dave KG for hi-jacking this thread just wanted to add my 2 pence worth.
> 
> Pete.


It was Pete who sent me my first sample of #205 to try


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## Porta

RussZS said:


> Sounds good Yeti, but 203S has more cut, and 205 finishes down a little better, so maybe try the other way around next time?
> 
> What do you think of the 203S?
> 
> For me, Megs need something in between 105 and 205 (155 maybe?) with as much cut as 203S, but finishes down like 205. That would be a superb polish!


Never tried 205 but 203S finishes off very nice. I used PO106FA after and I did not see any more gloss.


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## Breezy

Just tried my sample of 205 and I have to say i'm very impressed Dave you are right of course 

Its so easy to work with and doesnt dust or have "issues" like menzerna can sometimes and finishes down amazingly and like Dave said I was able to increase the cut by applying a bit more pressure and polishing @ 1700rpm on the bonnet on my BMW which has a few marks that woudl have otherwise needed something more aggressive like 203s or IP 3.02 to remove.

Great product I think im gonna have to get the litre bottle now...


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## mellowfellow

RussZS said:


> Sounds good Yeti, but 203S has more cut, and 205 finishes down a little better, so maybe try the other way around next time?
> 
> What do you think of the 203S?
> 
> For me, Megs need something in between 105 and 205 (155 maybe?) with as much cut as 203S, but finishes down like 205. That would be a superb polish!


do you still prefer the blackfire products over the megs 205 Russ?
ie. would you correct using megs then add the blackfire on top ? thanks


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## 1cleanz

dave i just recieved my order of 203, i want to polish my car witch was polished last year but i never got around to using a finishing polish, it has very light swirlls now, so what be the best pad to use to take care of them and leave a awsome finish?. i have all the lake county ccs pads. any help would be awsome thanks


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## OneJohnSheridan

I've picked some up from my local motor factors for the princely sum of £9.92 for just short of 1 litre.

Had a play yesterday and was very impressed too.

If you already have Menz 203 and 85 RD and are a little cost conscious then I'm not sure that you are going to get significantly better results with Meguiars #205. If you are running low of the above two or are looking for a first purchase then #205 is a very good all rounder.


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## Kevin Brown

*Swell write-up, Dave! :thumb: *
Glad to see M205 garnering such positive reviews.

I took a _lot_ of heat over touting it as a category best prior to its release:


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## Dave KG

Kevin Brown said:


> *Swell write-up, Dave! :thumb: *
> Glad to see M205 garnering such positive reviews.
> 
> I took a _lot_ of heat over touting it as a category best prior to its release:


It _is_ the best in its class, as far as I am concerned... sometimes you've just got to stick your head above the parapit and say what you think


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## Car Key

OneJohnSheridan said:


> I've picked some up from my local motor factors for the princely sum of *£9.92* for just short of 1 litre.


That's about 70% discount! Where was that from?


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## OneJohnSheridan

Near Bradford.


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## Ghostrider

Could the 205 used on scratch-resistent clear coats like mercedes-benz?


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## Porta

Ghostrider said:


> Could the 205 used on scratch-resistent clear coats like mercedes-benz?


Yes, mein herren.


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## Breezy

OneJohnSheridan said:


> Near Bradford.


any more details?


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## ianFRST

OneJohnSheridan said:


> I've picked some up from my local motor factors for the princely sum of £9.92 for just short of 1 litre.
> 
> Had a play yesterday and was very impressed too.
> 
> If you already have Menz 203 and 85 RD and are a little cost conscious then I'm not sure that you are going to get significantly better results with Meguiars #205. If you are running low of the above two or are looking for a first purchase then #205 is a very good all rounder.


yeah details please, thats a crazy discount for 1L of polish


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## three_sheds

I'm about to try some of this, but someone mentioned earlier in the thread about lubricating the pad. Do I need some lube, if so how much do I use and can anyone recommend a product?

Thanks.


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## Mr Face

Im not completely sure you will need it. I have used it without as there are lots of oils in the polish.

However, if you want a receoomendation or two :

Chemical Guys Spray Polishing Pad Conditioner 

Gloss It Pad Prime or 

a QD may also help with the first pass with 205 (after that you wont need it) 

HTH :thumb:


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## stangalang

Mr Face said:


> Im not completely sure you will need it. I have used it without as there are lots of oils in the polish.
> 
> However, if you want a receoomendation or two :
> 
> Chemical Guys Spray Polishing Pad Conditioner
> 
> Gloss It Pad Prime or
> 
> a QD may also help with the first pass with 205 (after that you wont need it)
> 
> HTH :thumb:


Or a blob or 2 of lime prime:thumb:


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## Brazo

I always season my pad first with qd and a little warming blast on a panel. I agree with mr face mege #205 is very well lubricated. And still the best finishing polish imo.


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## Dream Machines

Excellent write up Dave. Very technical
I'm not a Meguiars user and never will be as I've never liked anything of theirs. but there is no doubt that they have stepped up their game and its about time. 
Menzerna 85 is actually not as good as 87MF in terms of wetness and colour richness when used in a certain way

Its true that diminishing abrasives have their weaknesses. Spend too long at too lower a speed and you wont get the cut you want
Non diminishing products are the way to go. 
System One I believe was the first to go this route and I still use the X3 version today 

I'm of the opinion that using three or four different grades of polishes from one or more companies is old school and compounds are now obsolete. soften the paint instead of compounding the crap out of it. safer, faster, better. no point polishing a car thats got too much OP. Soften it and then flatten the peel as you correct. 

All the polishes in my shop (four) are single polish systems. XPERT 1000, System One X3, Gtech P1 and now my own called Shockwave which does 6 things at once. contains a type of clay plus special abrasives to flatten orange peel, remove all defects, open the paint up, gravitating into it and flushing impurities to the surface and much more. 

Its good to see Meguiars step up as I feel that they have been sitting on their asses for a long time and making the same rehashed products over and over again that I dont want. Its nice to see good competition in the abrasive polish sector.

Menzerna are falling behind in some ways. its all in the way the oxides are milled that makes the difference 

Xpert are currently working on new types of abrasives for the UV cured and powdered paints that will become factory standard in the near future. 

Moving away from aluminium to perhaps zirconia abrasives or something else is whats coming next.
The one thing I disagree with Gloss it is the super high speed application method they use with their system and also the fact that its not single polish based

600 to 1000 rpm is all I want to do with rotaries for milling paint aka correction
Thats where Gtech leads the way. the polish is that good that it tells you how good or bad the paint quality is. now thats smart. 

the best finishing polish though is one that contains abrasives and chemical cleaners (chem polish)

do three things at once not just one. abrasives only transfer heat physically not chemically.


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## fizzle86

this might help some people have a "try before you REALLY buy"

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/polishing/polish/meguiars-205-ultra-finishing-polish-8oz/prod_823.html

HTH


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