# The Term Detailing.....overused or not?



## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

So in the days of a simple car wash being classed as a detail and warranting a write up with photos.
Is the word now just a throwaway term that is used for cleaning anything these days
Thoughts guys?


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

no comment


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## rob_vrs (Jan 4, 2012)

Reflectology said:


> no comment


Why comment then :s


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## Big Buffer (Jan 1, 2011)

True it is. Only when everything you can do to a car including engine bays and arches can you say its detailed.

Everything else is cleaned or enhanced


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## Scrim-1- (Oct 8, 2008)

rob_vrs said:


> Why comment then :s


:lol::lol::lol:


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## P.A.D (Jun 26, 2008)

Everything nowadays is called a detail.:wall:

When I do a full correction detail it takes me between 5 and 6 days.

Everyone's a detailer now. Shame there isn't some kind of professional body as in the Bodyshop game.

Me, I clean cars lol.....:lol:


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Yep,it's over used in my opinion.


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## Deathstar (Jan 13, 2013)

Overused, I view detailing as someone who has used a machine. 

Everything else is just a thorough wash and clean. 


(TT)


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## Porkypig (Jun 20, 2012)

Isn't detailing the american term for valeting?

We understand amongst ourselves that it means a whole lot more as in paint correction and without going into detail... (excuse the pun) cleaning to the enth degree every element of a vehicle, but the average Jo in the street who uses the local drive through wouldn't know what it meant.


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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

Yes it is over used and diluted.


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

:detailer:


Deathstar said:


> Overused, I view detailing as someone who has used a machine.
> 
> Everything else is just a thorough wash and clean.
> 
> (TT)


You can do a thorough detail without a machine polisher though...


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## svended (Oct 7, 2011)

It's merely a monika we use (rightly or not). Some people are rightly proud of there work and may not want to call it 'today's wash dry' because they put so much more effort into the work they've done (does anyone other than the person know how much 'detail' they put into there work?). Were all here because we enjoy the same thing.


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

I wash my car and I pay attention to detail , I also have a DA which I use when I want to pay even more attention to it 

I can spend several hours on my car quite happy in my own little world going over the same bit several times as it relaxes me and i'm always happy with the result 

Detailing to me just means paying attention to something that I should be paying attention to anyway . 

Like "today I think I'll clean my car" as opposed to "today I think i'll clean my car properly" , I always clean my car properly and if I can't do it properly then I'll leave it to next week . I think it's just the process and lenghts some of us go to , I had my wheels off the weekend and spent more time in the arches than on the wheels , I just had to get them spotless !! 

I have no idea if that makes any sense , But I know what I mean


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

I love the for hour full details....


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

over used is an understatement


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## Ming (Oct 16, 2007)

Right. here we go.
I went to look for a definition for detail.
Wikepedia seemed like a good place to start.
i looked up auto detailling and look what i found
Auto detailing (UK: Car valeting), is the performance of an extremely thorough cleaning, polishing and waxing of an automobile, both inside and out, to produce a show-quality level of detail. Besides improving appearance, detailing helps to preserve resale value of a car
Now the interesting hting there is that they think that auto detailling is the American version of car valeting.
That just moved the goal posts.
I then looked a little further and found this:
Exterior detailing involves cleaning and bringing a shine to the car's paint, chrome trim, windows, wheels, and tires as well as all other visible components on the exterior of a vehicle. Different detailers use different products and techniques to do this. Products include but are not limited to detergents, degreasers, acids, detail clay, waxes, polishes, and a variety of applicators, brushes and special cloths. The three main components of exterior car detailing are cleaning, polishing, and protecing
Nowhere does it mention machines!!

For me detailling is spending trime doing something properly.
If I have corrected the paint on my car three weeks ago is my Sunday ritual of 4 or 5 hours cleaning my car any less of a detail just becauce the polish is applied by hand or I just put a coat of wax on?

I would agree that a street side wash and hoover is NOt a detail but I would equally argue that my sunday 'wash' IS!

My wheels have not come off yet - though they will this summer - but my car is still better than 99% of those i drive passed every day so in my eyes it HAS been detailled!!

Ming the provoker


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## stealthwolf (Sep 24, 2008)

If it's overused, perhaps we should rename the forum to something like: cleaningyourcarwold?


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Detailing is a term that was new to me when I joined here nearly 4 years ago.
Before that I saw it as washing and polishing the car. The fact that I then
tended to concentrate on every last detail was just a by-product of my desire
to get the vehicles looking as good as I could. A lot of that being driven by the 
desire to be seen out in said motors. I grew up in the 1960's, the greatest era
of posers there ever was!

I don't know if the term is overused or not, but one thing I'm dead against is
the idea of any sniffyness being attached to it...

Regards,
Steve


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Valeting in the States is where someone parks your car at a restaurant or airport etc.

Yes over used. I am moving more to advertising it as paint restoration and paint protection.


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## BMW - AL (Dec 31, 2012)

I think terms such as "protection detail" are perfectly acceptable to describe a thorough clean and application of wax/ sealants etc. even if they don't include much, if any paint correction and it certainly seems to be said on here a lot. 

I will say though, i'm new to this forum and several things do seem to be called "detailing" that I would have always just called washing/valeting etc. The very name of the forum encourages the use of the word and I don't necessarily think it's something to worry/get annoyed about. Everyone on here can clearly see the infinite difference between a 7 day full correction posted in the Studio to some of the less impressive efforts posted elsewhere, so I don't think professional detailing suffers from it's over use in anyway. As I can relate to it more, I for one enjoy driveway "detailing" threads as much as some of the studio work and I really don't mind if people call their efforts detailing, even if I wouldn't. 

A bit of waffling I know but just my 2p worth :thumb:

Alex


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## dooka (Aug 1, 2006)

It's more the case that there is no definition to the term. For example, What one calls an enhancement, will be a correction to another, blah blah blah..

Yes it is over used, and in my opinion, there needs to be at least 2 or 3 other levels between Valeting and Detailing..

It's not a case of doing it as a living or a hobby, it is the level of work and attention put into the job..

I would say, most so called detailers carry out no more than a high end valet. I see all sorts, and have seen most over the years..

If the term detailer is to stay, then there are around 10 detailers in the country, well, what I would consider detailers. Some of them also valeters, you know who you are big man ..

It was an American term that the UK and Europe took and used for the next level above high end valeting, not to be used for one day jobs, but for the few days plus jobs. But then this could become restoration, which can take years, so where is the definition to the term..

Now lets be honest here, and not to open a can of worms, as my lips will remain sealed, but there are guys out there offering detailing services and good prices, when in all reality, they shouldn't be allowed to wash their own car, let alone someone else's. And as far as I am concerned, some people have dragged the term detailing down to what it is, all on their own, tut

I, along with a few others have dropped the term "Detailing" on the whole, and just keeping it in several places for obvious reasons, SEO and advertising etc..

I do expect a back lash and a phone call or 2 for that statement, but this is an open forum where I can air my views and opinions, and they are just that, whether in a personal or professional manner, obviously trying to keep it relatively professional ..

There you go, Rant over, and probably no need for a few to post either ..

P.S. Good to see you posting again Ming, haven't seen you post in ages ..


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

dooka said:


> It's more the case that there is no definition to the term. For example, What one calls an enhancement, will be a correction to another, blah blah blah..
> 
> Yes it is over used, and in my opinion, there needs to be at least 2 or 3 other levels between Valeting and Detailing..
> 
> ...


Well put Dooka Dude.
Well if no one rings I'll ring you anyway....


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

So, according to you Dooka, the term should only be used by professionals.
This is where I start to harrumph...

For many years, when my hands worked, I was a railway modeller. Mostly 
scratch building rolling stock, although I did also hand-build several hundred 
yards of track with its associated pointwork. To try and distinguish myself 
from the table-top railway modeller, I started calling myself a model builder. 
Simply because I used very few kit parts, although I did rely on pre-cast 
metal axleboxes and running gear for wagons and coaches.

In my previous post I did say that I'm not keen on the sniffyness of use of the
term. Until I joined here, I considered myself a keen car cleaning enthusiast.
Very keen! It's an interest I've practiced for the best part of 50 years...

Does that in any way disqualify me from describing myself as a detailer? 

Yes, I've taken the best part of a week to do some cars, mostly because my 
hands no longer work as they should. That doesn't mean that I'm any less 
careful, or determined to get to a desired standard. Indeed, you guys here 
raise the bar so darned high that it can get quite painful even to begin to 
emulate you. For me, use of any machine is precluded!

This business of how long it takes is all whitewash anyway. It's a bit like the
old arguments here of how many stages there were to do a wash; assuming
that the greater the number, the better the result. Absolute balderdash!

Some people seem to make detailing sound like it's necessary to add as much
complexity as possible, and unless they behave like some kind of martyr to an
imagined cause, they cannot possibly be a detailer. Again, complete nonsense!

I've lost count of the times when I've had to explain that no additional work
is needed when I've explained a simple routine. Indeed, looking to add any
complexity to a simple or simplified process will mostly lead to you working
against yourself!

I don't think it matters one jot what we call ourselves, especially when
probably the majority here are just enthusiasts. The addition of professional
to the front or enthusiast to the rear of the term more or less sums it up. 
Aren't we all here to support each other, whatever category we fall into?

Regards,
Steve


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

How about this one?

It's still called Golf whether its Rory McElroy playing a perfect round at a the open championship or me swatting at a ball down at the local pitch and putt.

The point? Does how well you do it determine what its called, or is that what adjectives are for?

I can however see the point about reclaiming a name that maybe used to stand for one thing, and is now just thrown around like a buzzword.

However, anyone who was involved in the early stages of "detailing" and has ever tried to publicize it or broaden its appeal should know this is exactly what happens when Joe Public catches on to something! You'll never get it back, not as it was... the term will have changed/diluted so much when you do, so I'd suggest adaptability, and those looking to redefine toward paint restoration, or similar have it right.


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Mmmmmm
Lets look at what detailing is.
Mmmm high end valeting basically. A detailer will still wash a car dry a car wax a car hoover a car shampoo a car and dress a car. Just to a higher standard with more attention to details than a valet does.
So if its a time factor and a valet spends three days to machine a car does that mean perfection or does that mean he is slow or does it mean that he is not confident with a mop.


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

rob_vrs said:


> Why comment then :s





Scrim-1- said:


> :lol::lol::lol:


purely because i said all i need to say here (post 46)

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=3932169#post3932169


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

I've been into the modified car scene, parts of clubs etc for a while and there was a huge boom in the use of the word 'detailing'. 

All of a sudden, every Turtle Wax loving, car wash using petrolhead was buying Meguiars, Autoglym or if they are mega 'exclusive' Dodo Juice products. No one washes their cars they 'detail' them every weekend and all of a sudden every muppet out their is an expert on what products to use and what techniques.

The fact that a lot of these people will go buy a £50 pot or wax but still scratch their car silly with a ropey old sponge and bucket is irrelevant because if you buy expensive products you are a detailer!! 

The term 'to detail' is a new buzz word, if you come on this site you learn what it really means but in the car community it's a term used for giving your car a wash and vacuum.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Alex_225 said:


> I've been into the modified car scene, parts of clubs etc for a while and there was a huge boom in the use of the word 'detailing'.
> 
> All of a sudden, every Turtle Wax loving, car wash using petrolhead was buying Meguiars, Autoglym or if they are mega 'exclusive' Dodo Juice products. No one washes their cars they 'detail' them every weekend and all of a sudden every muppet out their is an expert on what products to use and what techniques.
> 
> ...


I think that still happens on here though, people post up a thread of what I'd call a weekend wash and because they've used some apc and some detailing brushes around their lights/badges/grilles etc. they've done a detail - no you haven't you've just washed your car, you may have done it slightly differently to Joe public but you've only washed your car.


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

bigmc said:


> I think that still happens on here though, people post up a thread of what I'd call a weekend wash and because they've used some apc and some detailing brushes around their lights/badges/grilles etc. they've done a detail - no you haven't you've just washed your car, you may have done it slightly differently to Joe public but you've only washed your car.


I should rephrase, when you come on this site you eventually learn what a detail is! haha


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Washing is washing. Polishing is polishing. Detailing is getting the crap out of the cracks!


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## dooka (Aug 1, 2006)

Lowiepete said:


> So, according to you Dooka, the term should only be used by professionals.
> This is where I start to harrumph...
> 
> For many years, when my hands worked, I was a railway modeller. Mostly
> ...


No I don't think you need to be a professional to use the term, just that if you are a professional, then you be honest about the term you use to label yourself with. There are hobbiest out there who are certainly better than some offering services as a profession, that I can guarantee..

*The real issue is, the guys who do this as a profession, and who took the term and turned it into what it became over here, but then others jumped on the term and killed it, so the guys at the top of their game, and as stated earlier, not many of them, now have to either battle against the cowboys using the term, or need to find a new term that distinguishes themselves from the others..*

Steve, like you say, you have been doing this 50 years as a hobby, I can guarantee you can produce better work than a lot of the so called pro detailers, and in the time you have been doing it, picked up a lot more experience, tips and tricks, this in turn, has allowed you to know what needs doing on a car, so you can explain that no more works needs undertaking confidently..

It takes as long as it takes to detail a car properly, or to a certain standard in a certain time frame. I have no issue, and do so on many an occasion, and ask the client if I can keep the car for another day, no more expense to them, just the car isn't up to the dooka standard. If you ever say, "that will do", then it isn't being detailed. It takes a certain mentality to be a detailer, and it isn't a good trait to have, it effects every aspect of your life, chasing what doesn't exist, 110% ..

We all have a different work ethic and opinions on what is what, so maybe there should be guidelines as to what qualifies for each kind of job. I get fed up seeing thresads "FULL CORRECTION DETAIL", when in reality, it is no more than an Enhancement Detail.

I hear and read it all the time:
Can you recommend a detailer.....
Go and see dooka.....
dooka is to expensive and takes to long......

There is a reason why dook takes this amount of time, as dooka feel that is the time that is needed to detail the car to a certain standard, and not a quick bosh out. Yes some guys work faster than others, but I still don't see how a car can be properly cleaned, decontaminated, machined, and finished in 5-7 hours, I take 3-5 hours min to thoroughly clean and decontaminate a vehicle, and there is no way I can machine a car in 4-6 hours, well I can, but not properly or to any standard, but that is my standard..

One thing I have never offered is, 4 billion stage washes, I just say I will thoroughly clean the vehicle, and that will take as many so called stages as it takes, I think some including filling the bucket as a stage . It is like polishing, We will run a 3 stage machine polish to remove all marks, no what if all marks can't be removed, due to certain constraints, such as not enough paint, or you may need a crazy amount of gentle hits to remove before refining, a full correction is often up to 9 hits or more in total. My enhancements are 99% of the time are 2 machining stages, not a one hit with a semi compound leaving little marrs all over the car..

I have a little apprentice that comes in to help out when needed and sometime when not, he does not detail as a profession, like you, a very keen hobbiest, but his understanding of the trade, what detailing is and ability to produce work to a high enough standard and would shot a few pros down with the quality of his work, *so this just proves that you don't need to be a pro to be a detailer,* you just need to know what it really involves and have the right mindset. And as stated before, YES, it is just a term, but us who do this as a living, need a term to label ourselves with..

*So no need to get the hump , maybe you misunderstood what I wrote, or I didn't explain myself properly. Those who know me, know I am not one for causing to much trouble, but do like to and maybe slightly unprofessionally like to have my say..*

Well, I think I have rambled on enough, and a quick one line answer doesn't really say what I need to say on explaining myself..

I hope that has made sense, and I am always happy to answer to what I have said/say, ..


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## dooka (Aug 1, 2006)

-PJB- said:


> How about this one?
> 
> It's still called Golf whether its Rory McElroy playing a perfect round at a the open championship or me swatting at a ball down at the local pitch and putt.
> 
> ...


True to an extent, you have [email protected] golfers and very good golfers, but what is happening in the detailing fraternity is, The [email protected] golfers are trying to pass themselves off as Tiger Woods ..


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## Lloydy (Jan 13, 2009)

I think its overused yes

To explain it to people in a weird way that I clean cars but pay etra attention to details that others may not be so bothered about.

I dont class myself as a detailing but others say oh that Lloydy guy is into his detailing. When in actual fact I just enjoy cleaning cars more than others lol


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

R0B said:


> So in the days of a simple car wash being classed as a detail and warranting a write up with photos.
> Is the word now just a throwaway term that is used for cleaning anything these days
> Thoughts guys?


Love it!

Post this and run off Rob, like your style :lol:

Too many half wit amateurs running round classing themselves as detailers :wave:

Not sure if you've seen my threads on VXRO but I have a valeting thread where i do all the pre-wash stages and protect, then I have the detailing thread where I have the paint correction via machine and protect. I've seen a few threads on there where people have said they have detailed there car by slapping some wax on or rubbing some SRP into some scratches and then thought they have sealed it by T-Cut :wall:


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

"Detailing" World was formed because "Valeting" World sounded naff and would probably not have attracted as many members. That's how it was viewed way back when.

At that point detailing was a term used by a handful of professionals (and I mean fingers on one hand) and a few sad geeks like me, coined either from the American term for cleaning one's car or by professionals seeking to distance themselves from the valeting industry.

Fast forward a few years and I wash my car, that's it. I never refer to detailing as all I do is washing and cleaning - OK, beyond what my neighbours do but still just a routine clean-up.

If and when I drag the rotary out, I'm polishing and again that's it.

Professionals can call themselves what they want but there's still only a handful I'd take my car to - that's always been the case.

DW is partly to blame for the way the scene's changed but in fairness they provide a platform for enthusiasts and pro's alike and if an amateur chooses to pass themselves off as something else then that's not entirely a DW problem - buyer beware and all that I suppose. However, I've said before that with the position they're in, I believe that DW should take some responsibility by forming a trade body or similar.

I know some will say it can't be done but why not? It answers a lot of the apparent issues where professionals are rightly a bit miffed that weekend warriors are "nicking" business - or is that really happening? I dunno.

If you enjoy it then it doesn't matter what you call it. Unless of course you're passing yourself off as a time served professional when you're not. Which is naughty.


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## dooka (Aug 1, 2006)

AndyC, you are spot on to an extent. I have had words with DW about the amount that are signing up and offering in my eyes, sub standard work, or if the term needs to be tagged to it, substandard details..

Like you, there is only a handfull of people I would allow to touch my car, some have years of experience, some don't, but understand what the game is all about..

I understand people want to use detailing practices when cleaning their vehicles, and that I applaud, to many £5 car scratches around..

I see people get a days training, watch a video, then boom, full on company the next day saying how great they are. They are all over the forums and people flocking to them like sheep. What they don't see, are the emails/texts/pm's etc asking how to do a job, use a tool/product or how to fix an issue that they have come across and have no idea either what the problem is, why they are getting that problem or how to get around it..

I know of a few pros that could upset the apple cart and destroy some reputations if they decided to expose these emails etc..

Transparency is something that is missing from this industry. I know there are people who are better than me and worse than me, there are those that charge less than me and those that charge more than me, some are better and charge more, some are better and charge less, some are worse and charge more, you get the idea..

As for governing bodies, it has been talked about for quite a while now, it will be very difficult to implement fully. But there are little changes that we can make. I am sure the big names would be happy to take a radius, then when someone wants to sign up as a supporter, someone goes and has a look at their work, ethics, set up, insurances etc, then decide whether they would be accepted or not, or we need different levels of membership..

Some guys charge big money, and rightly so, but why should some tinpot detailer with no experience or a clue to what they are doing muscle in on what the good guys do and charge. Their prices have been earnt..

I don't think business is being stolen, just cheap prices are being offered for often sub standard work. Give it 10 years, and half the guys won't exist anymore, or a good few will be revealed for what they really are..

There is more and more talk of people threatening to reveal who is who, then trust me, if that happens, that can of worms is going to be BIG ..


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Trust me a while back I did consider an exposé but life's too damned short to start a poo storm and those who think I'm a **** would only use it as an opportunity to further bash me - not enough balls to tell me face to face and all that jazz...

Trade body is simple. Set a line on the sand for everything and a set number of people who can approve members. You don't make the grade you're not in. I know in reality it's not *that* simple but DW has the clout and resource to get it started. There'll be talk of why it can't happen I'm sure but this place could overcome all but monetary objections and start a real legacy to the industry AND hobby sides of the coin.

That would make this entire place more than just about a few people making a lot of money!!!


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## dooka (Aug 1, 2006)

Yes, but it is a case of funding so called Trade Body, don't get me wrong, I am all for a trade body and would happily give some of my time where I could to help run it..

I was chatting to two separate bodies about this, both had great ideas, but would not work along side each other, one had the funding and the other had the platform..

Like I say, there are talks about what can be done..

I guess it is like Plumbing, for example, they are all called plumbers, no matter what their standard of work, just some end up on Rouge Traders etc ..


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

dooka said:


> I see people get a days training, watch a video, then boom, full on company the next day saying how great they are. They are all over the forums and people flocking to them like sheep. What they don't see, are the emails/texts/pm's etc asking how to do a job, use a tool/product or how to fix an issue that they have come across and have no idea either what the problem is, why they are getting that problem or how to get around it..
> 
> I know of a few pros that could upset the apple cart and destroy some reputations if they decided to expose these emails etc..
> 
> Transparency is something that is missing from this industry. I know there are people who are better than me and worse than me, there are those that charge less than me and those that charge more than me, some are better and charge more, some are better and charge less, some are worse and charge more, you get the idea..


I know of a few businesses like this, who have asked for advise via the likes of fb, then went through my contacts and cherry picked customers to offer a better deal....luckily enough the customers were loyal enough to come back an tell me. But the cheek of it!!!!

Dooka i know what your saying, someone starting up and charging high rates, but at the same time the ones who lower the value of detailing are just as bad with their £120 - £150 claimed full correction etc...


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## dooka (Aug 1, 2006)

Prism Detailing said:


> I know of a few businesses like this, who have asked for advise via the likes of fb, then went through my contacts and cherry picked customers to offer a better deal....luckily enough the customers were loyal enough to come back an tell me. But the cheek of it!!!!
> 
> *dooka i know what your saying, someone starting up and charging high rates, but at the same time the ones who lower the value of detailing are just as bad with their £120 - £150 claimed full correction etc..*.


Couldn't agree more Rob. Feedback has told me, that the only similarity between some companies Enhancements and my Enhancements, is only the name, that is just an example, but a fact..


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

dooka said:


> True to an extent, you have [email protected] golfers and very good golfers, but what is happening in the detailing fraternity is, The [email protected] golfers are trying to pass themselves off as Tiger Woods ..


I definitely agree with where you're coming from and your original post Dooka. I'm sure there's only a few high end folk, like with anything. Adding to your difficulties is that it's not a direct competition, rather the industries impression can be made or broken by isolated incidents - so its easy to claim something without being shown up and shut down. I guess the key for those who established and defined the original "detailing" is to keep developing and moving the goal posts for the "competition". Let the Audley Harrison's get left behind!


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

dooka said:


> Yes, but it is a case of funding so called Trade Body, don't get me wrong, I am all for a trade body and would happily give some of my time where I could to help run it..
> 
> I was chatting to two separate bodies about this, both had great ideas, but would not work along side each other, one had the funding and the other had the platform..
> 
> ...


Funding shouldn't be an issue. You charge members a fee which pays for the body. Set-up costs could be absorbed by DW without pausing for breath and if the "right" people were involved then the proper businesses would be in like a shot; it just needs that initial shove to get it moving.

I've bene involved with these things before and if enough people want it and are willing to put money in (and 20-25 supporters here would be enough if their sub fee was put into setting this up for one year) it can happen.

Of course some won't want to become involved and that's fine. This isn't saying that if you're not in then you're no good but IF the volume of pretenders is genuinely that bad then surely it's a good thing?

I'm using a local lad to fit my kitchen this summer - word of mouth, reputation and seeing his work for myself was enough to stop me getting other quotes. Should be no different for any other trade really although when I'm having my gas or electrics messed with I like the reassurance that the person doing the messing knows what they're doing!!

Nothing wrong with pro detailers charging a lot of money - it is a real skill but at the moment it isn't something you go to college to learn like you do with other trades - again DW could start, fund and support a proper apprenticeship to change this and bring some (as you say) transparency to the industry.

Let's face it, KDS training for example is almost there already. Kelly trains you properly and that really does mean something both inside and outside the scene. At least that's how I perceive it.

Let me sum it up this way. If I owned DW outright, I'd be putting a bit of dough back into the industry now as the cost of physically running the forum is minimal even with the latest vbulletin software.

Arguably it isn't as I said before a DW issue but "with power comes responsibility" - DW certainly has the marketplace presence and this place could become more than just a forum, albeit a highly commercially successful one.

However, it's not down to me and even if all this were to happen it doesn't stop the part-timers and never will IMO.


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

dooka said:


> So no need to get the hump , maybe you misunderstood what I wrote, or I didn't explain myself properly. Those who know me, know I am not one for causing to much trouble, but do like to and maybe slightly unprofessionally like to have my say...


...which you are fully entitled to, and no hump taken here. I just think that
it's a matter of perception.

Let's take this statement...
"_He went round every seam with a tiny paintbrush_"
- express that as a question or with any incredulity, the man's a nutter!
- express that with some admiration for his patience, he's a hero!

We'll all know of instances where both have come into play.

Where I take the hump is when any kind of sniffiness (elitism) is applied to the
term, as if it only belongs to a certain section. We all had to start somewhere
and I've no doubt that we have efforts in the past that we'd be ashamed of
showing today. At what point did we start being or becoming a detailer?

In my book, that was when just a quick wash was never going to do, and 
there was a background hunch that the surface could look a lot better. So
the quest for a higher standard of finish has begun. The slippery slope!

When I first joined here, I was a bit apprehensive of posting pictures of my
ab fab new car. Indeed, you guys wasted no time in telling me to get on with
it! However, at no point have I been embarrassed by any subsequent pictures
that I've posted here. I've never been made to feel out of place and long may
that attitude prevail for everyone!

While I have some sympathy with the professionals over the common adoption
of a term, the English language is flowery enough to compensate. Lets not rip
apart a term that we all use with such gusto that it becomes a dirty word. 
Detailing, valeting, cleaning; they're all words to describe processes that we 
all use to get vehicles looking their absolute best. No more, no less.

Regards,
Steve


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Seriously? A trade body for detailing? :lol:

I don't think joe public pays attention to whether someone calls themselves a valeter, detailer or whatever. Most people will decide what kind of company you are based on your prices.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Doesn't it need to be a trade before a trade body is established?


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## dooka (Aug 1, 2006)

SteveyG said:


> Seriously? A trade body for detailing? :lol:
> 
> I don't think joe public pays attention to whether someone calls themselves a valeter, detailer or whatever. Most people will decide what kind of company you are based on your prices.


What do prices have to do with what sort of company you are. I know of companies that charge the earth, some of which are awesome at what they do and some not so..

I also know of companies that charge very little in relation, some of them again, produce awesome work, and should be charging more, and some, well, they are still charging to much, so I don't necessarily agree with you comment..

You will be surprised how many people want assurances, it is becoming more and more common place and important in todays society..



bigmc said:


> Doesn't it need to be a trade before a trade body is established?


It depends on your definition of trade, I have always been in the *motor trade*, in some department or another for most of my working life, I see what I do as part of the motor trade, just a different devision..



AndyC said:


> Of course some won't want to become involved and that's fine. This isn't saying that if you're not in then you're no good but IF the volume of pretenders is genuinely that bad then surely it's a good thing?
> 
> I'm using a local lad to fit my kitchen this summer - word of mouth, reputation and seeing his work for myself was enough to stop me getting other quotes. Should be no different for any other trade really although when I'm having my gas or electrics messed with I like the reassurance that the person doing the messing knows what they're doing!!


This is why reputations can be so important but not always so, believe you me, I have been given glowing recommendations, just to end up re-doing the work myself, and to never use or recommend myself. It is all about doing your homework..



AndyC said:


> Let's face it, KDS training for example is almost there already. Kelly trains you properly and that really does mean something both inside and outside the scene. At least that's how I perceive it.


At least Kelly has the appropriate experience, background and skills to offer these services, but it doesn't mean that, just because Kelly trained them, they will be as good as Kelly the next day, and charge what he charges. Kelly is where he is for a reason..

This is why I think we need a grading scheme, for example, X goes to get quotes on getting his car painted. Painter A quotes £3000, Painter B quotes £1000. Now to X, he doesn't understand why A is £2k more than B, as far as X are concerned, they are both painting his car, which is what he asked for. What he doesn't realise is what goes into the job, A will remove windows, doors and rubbers etc, where B will only mask up. Both are painting his car. This is where the education and transparency needs comes into it in part. Not X makes so and so's products etc..


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

dooka said:


> No I don't think you need to be a professional to use the term, just that if you are a professional, then you be honest about the term you use to label yourself with. There are hobbiest out there who are certainly better than some offering services as a profession, that I can guarantee..


Oh wow! That's a separate issue altogether - a basic question of honesty.
Dealing with dishonest people has been the cause of vexation for eons!

No wonder there are calls for such as a trade body. However, how the devil
would you police it, who would set the standards, and who would enforce the 
penalties? Every one of those has substantial costs which only the customers
will have to bear, in the end.

Perhaps there should just be a "sin bin" where any sub-standard work is 
highlighted, without fear nor favour - especially pointing out those who are
dishonest! I know, whenever a thread bearing criticism appears here, people's
reactions are split right down the middle!

The biggest problem being that the Internet can just as quickly break you as 
well as make you. Attach the risk of getting it wrong and you consign an 
innocent person out of business. Who would then be liable for compensating
them? I'm assuming you'd have to self-insure against such probabilities.

Surely, at the top end of the profession it's the customer's money that talks? 
I doubt that much new business comes from advertising, rather by reputation 
- word of mouth. There will always be echelons serving their own market. If 
you do form a trade body you'll need to make it effective at all levels and 
take the risk that your members don't price themselves out of their current 
market by the new overheads.

I'm always wary, as a customer, whenever a hobby of mine is at risk of being 
turned into a cheque-book sport. I know, there are plenty of people at the 
other end of the scale too...

Regards,
Steve


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

dooka said:


> This is why I think we need a grading scheme, for example, X goes to get quotes on getting his car painted. Painter A quotes £3000, Painter B quotes £1000. Now to X, he doesn't understand why A is £2k more than B, as far as X are concerned, they are both painting his car, which is what he asked for. What he doesn't realise is what goes into the job, A will remove windows, doors and rubbers etc, where B will only mask up. Both are painting his car. This is where the education and transparency needs comes into it in part. Not X makes so and so's products etc..


People wouldn't go to A or B if there was a £2000 difference, they'd question the difference, go and get further quotes or try to find testimonials.



dooka said:


> What do prices have to do with what sort of company you are. I know of companies that charge the earth, some of which are awesome at what they do and some not so..


Very rarely do companies survive if their work doesn't match their prices.


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I want nothing to do with a "trade body" for detailing.


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## Mk3Brick (May 24, 2012)

I like cleaning my car. Seems simple to me but then im a noob. Good read though :thumb:


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## dooka (Aug 1, 2006)

SteveyG said:


> People wouldn't go to A or B if there was a £2000 difference, they'd question the difference, go and get further quotes or try to find testimonials.
> 
> Very rarely do companies survive if their work doesn't match their prices.


You will be surprised what people do and don't ask, some people are just clueless. But that was just an example, to make it easier for some to understand..

Maybe, but certain companies survive, as the constantly produce great work..



Clark @ PB said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again, I want nothing to do with a "trade body" for detailing.


Clark, sounds like you have something to hide, but those of us who either know you or your work will know differently ..

I don't know if I do or don't agree with some sort of governing body, but I do feel that something needs to be sorted, hence why I suggest different levels/scales. We are a small industry which is in its infancy to an extent over here, so it is possible to put certain procedures into place ..


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

I just see it as this in short: If you're good at what you do then word of mouth alone will make sure you have a fairly big and loyal customer base with new customers always coming through the door so I see no real reason for a body as such.

Also, who's going to assess your or my detailing work to say whether it's good enough or not?


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

Clark @ PB said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again, I want nothing to do with a "trade body" for detailing.


But is that in terms of helping to establish one, or evening being part of one ?


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

Clark @ PB said:


> I just see it as this in short: If you're good at what you do then word of mouth alone will make sure you have a fairly big and loyal customer base with new customers always coming through the door so I see no real reason for a body as such.
> 
> Also, who's going to assess your or my detailing work to say whether it's good enough or not?


I totally agree with you Clark, I think at the end of the day you do a good job you will get more custom via word of mouth, if you do a bad job then you might have had that one car.....but thats it, no repeat custom etc...


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## wookey (Jul 13, 2007)

Clark @ PB said:


> I just see it as this in short: If you're good at what you do then word of mouth alone will make sure you have a fairly big and loyal customer base with new customers always coming through the door so I see no real reason for a body as such.
> 
> Also, who's going to assess your or my detailing work to say whether it's good enough or not?


Totally agree with Clark on this.

Trade Bodies rarely work, just look at the state of the work that comes out of the various body shops across the country!!! vbra is it?

Just another cash cow for somebody to get rich quick on imho. Too much hype and bs with detailing as it is. If you're doing a good job, you'll have customers coming back and plenty of work. If you're not you'll soon get found out.

Just my 2p


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

dooka said:


> I don't know if I do or don't agree with some sort of governing body, but I do feel that something needs to be sorted, hence why I suggest different levels/scales. We are a small industry which is in its infancy to an extent over here, so it is possible to put certain procedures into place ..


My counter arguement to that is - yes I'd agree that it's a shame there are cowboys out there and people are potentially getting their fingers burned but at the same time if they've not done their homework on said "detailer" then it's partly their own fault in my opinion.

Also,at the end of the day it doesn't affect me if someone isn't happy with another persons work (unless we get the "please fix my car" job after :lol so why worry about it - keep your eye on your own business and continue keeping customers happy  This possibly comes across as a bit selfish but hey,that's business sometimes.


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)




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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

wookey said:


> Totally agree with Clark on this.
> 
> Trade Bodies rarely work, just look at the state of the work that comes out of the various body shops across the country!!! vbra is it?
> 
> ...


Bad ones get the negativity, good ones just crack on quietly.

VBRA handle mass market repairs and the majority just want the car to come back straight - beyond that they don't care if there are holograms etc.

A "body" of the size for this sector would be small and if someone starts it with only profit in mind it'll go **** up quickly.

The weekenders will only get bigger and bolder if there's nothing to deter them and to be fair if anyone gains serious experience and steps up to full-time a year or 2 in then fair play - there appears to be plenty of work out there.

No agenda here BTW - my day job takes up enough time and pays me more than enough not to need the aggro :lol:

My closing thought is that whenever this sort of debate crops up, many professionals seem to forget where they started. Totally understandable as the long days/nights and gard graft are usually not obvious to the novice who thinks it's all hypercars and flash lifestyle - which it isn't.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Guys... have you considered the flip side of this? So not those working as detailers who may have a rightful interest in retaining detailing's 'top tier' meaning, but those producing and selling the products. 

Clearly, its in the interest of 'detailing' product makers, licencers and resellers if everyone and his dog thinks they're gods gift to detailing by buying some posh potions and a tarty wax for the family fleet; treat your Fiat like a Ferrari and all that jazz. 

So who, or what, is driving the 'everyman' detailing agenda? The chancer with a rotary in his hand and a shed load of posh products, looking to make a few quid... or those selling the "tools of the experts"!?


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

OK guys that do this for a living and know what product for what and how to get over things can now call themsevles DETAILERS 
Those that do there car at the weekend you are always have been and always will be WEEKEND WARRIORS... All the gear and no idea (not all lowiepete but some if not most) like has been stated KNOWING what your doing and WHY youre doing it is worth more that that silly silk lined wooden box with that sweet sickly smelling wax in it.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Dunno but this one will never reach an answer everyone's happy with. 

New baby coming soon - my priorities are way different to 10 years ago


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Clark @ PB said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again, I want nothing to do with a "trade body" for detailing.


+1

I let my customers judge whether I am worthy of being a detailer, 10 years in the industry professionally and the same loyal customer base returning year after year, not sure a "trade body" is of any benefit to an established business.


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## Mk3Brick (May 24, 2012)

"All the gear and no idea" excellent!

Just what us noobs to this "hobbie" want to hear. Surely if we all have no idea then we would all have badly marred cars from the dreaded 1st time clay bar session and swirls that if you spent too much time looking at would make you feel sick?!? But we don't because we have the help of the more experienced car cleaners (detailers) on this site. I personally wouldn't call myself a detailer and I don't care for what criteria I need to meet to be labelled a detailer, I just enjoy cleaning my car like a little ocd freak. 

Cheers


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

AndyC said:


> Dunno but this one will never reach an answer everyone's happy with.
> 
> New baby coming soon - my priorities are way different to 10 years ago


Congrats Andy!


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Mk3brick
That may sound nasty. Let me try and explain, all the gear no idea.
Those people ( a quick flick through some posts will give you some idea) that go out on a whim and buy the most expensive product out there then pop up with a million and one questions rephrased 20 times because they dont actually know what they have bought done no research on it and then use it **** up and then scream for help.
One post that springs to mind is quite recent.
Along the lines of witch rotary is better a das 6pro or a silverline....... Can you spot whats wrong..... The guy got the hump when i told him NOT to buy one and said he knew all about them both and was just after a second opinion.
Or the guy that has been cleaning his car quite happily for fifteen years now suggest a change of product what should he buy (if it aint broke dont fix it) 
Or the do i wax then seal or seal then wax (er if you know anything about why you want to use these products then surely the answer is self explanatory EVERY day that question pops up.)
Not those guys that read and then question product a or product b which would be better for my given situation you fall into this group you know what the products are but ask which one would be better for you.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

B17BLG said:


>


I think it's been interesting. All I know; for the avoidance of doubt, is that I definitely fall into the posh home-valet camp. I wouldn't claim to be a detailer, I'm too impatient, undedicated and don't have much experience apart from what I enjoy to do on my own car when I get the chance and the mood takes me.

Why "posh" valet? Because I do still cringe at all the valeters I see doing cars in various work carparks where I've worked (All are swirled to hell when the sun comes out - a bit of trim dressing and tyre slap does not make a perfect car!), the level of finish in pretty much all car showrooms I've been, and anywhere else for that matter. To be honest, I have seen a fair few "DW cars" and thought, "hey, I'm not that bad when I try!" [they might've thought the same too! ]

There's clearly a very, very large continuum between "typical valeting" and "high end detailing/paint restoration".


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## Mk3Brick (May 24, 2012)

AllenF said:


> Mk3brick
> That may sound nasty. Let me try and explain, all the gear no idea.
> Those people ( a quick flick through some posts will give you some idea) that go out on a whim and buy the most expensive product out there then pop up with a million and one questions rephrased 20 times because they dont actually know what they have bought done no research on it and then use it **** up and then scream for help.
> One post that springs to mind is quite recent.
> ...


I see, I wasn't getting butt hurt about it mate cos were all here for the same thing right? Cos were all weird to the world outside of DW.

Cheers


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Well an interesting, if unsurprising thread, and many of the sentiments are also unsurprising... I have my own takes on everything based on my personal stance, I'm now a long way removed from detailing and to be honest I quite like it that way as the "industry" as a whole wasn't really going a way which interested me anymore...

Go back in time a few years to the birth of this forum, and the term detailing may become a little more clear in its definition to quite a few - rather than being a profession, a job, it was more a description of a *hobby*. Certainly this is how it was viewed by many at the time, in the days of meeting up in a big shed and enjoying taking vehicle appearance to new levels. Of course, businesses grew from this and the industry of detailing flourished. Much of what was being offered was not new per se, but it was reaching a new level of recognition. Many more people were becoming empowered with skills which they were putting to use to start businesses. But for me, the term detailing refers very much to a hobby more than anything else, rather than the very commercialised world it is now. 

In terms of the world of detailing, it is in many ways becoming rather stagnent for me... we get loads of new fad products all claiming to be the next wonder thing, and at the end of the day they do nothing more than many other products on the market. But they come well marketed, make a lot of people happy in the fact they think they are revolutionary but at the end of the day, I see little if anything truly revolutionary any more, save perhaps for these new paint coatings but they are not entirely new.

Taking *one aspect* of detailing, that being paint correction, and it would seem that many more are offering services revolving around this and hinging detailing on it. It is, at the end of the day, paint correction or enhancement but what of the standards of it these days? I see a lot of examples of battering paintwork with heavy compounds and refining put the mess in order to achieve quick correction results - this to me is paint butchering, taking nothing into account as to what is actually being done and not taking the true car that is required to correct paint safely and correctly. A difference here between detailing (taking the time to do it right) and what is not really detailing, ie battering out a result quickly. In terms of quality, well it is becoming ever harder to judge going on many studio posts these days - you see detailing claimed, "enhancements", paint correction ya de ya da but all I see are a few glossy shots that tell me nothing about the quality of the finish that is there. My Subaru looks great in the correct lighting, but the sides of it are covered in marks from gorse bushes after the recent weather brought down trees and blocked roads - they wont show up in many glossy pictures though! Neither will poor machine finishing, so when all I see is glossy afters without many different lighting sources I cannot help but wonder why I am not being presented in a "show-off my work" thread with evidence of the true results achieved. It certainly makes those that do this stand out from the crowd as being head and shoulders above those who don't (in my opinion), as they are clearly showing their work to those who know what they are looking for! And this, alas, is an important point - a shiny glossy car can look amazing when photographed right, and if it is a flash car then it gets all the "great job awesome car" etc posts which to me shows many don't actually know what they are looking for in terms of a claimed paint enhancement or correction. Worrying, because if many don't know what they are looking for in terms of a good result, how can those who are not achieving the best be differentiated from those who are? Without the knowledge of what constitutes a good job, this is hard and with more and more dirty car to glossy car posts I cannot help but feel quality is being diluted to the detriment of those who really genuinely are producing the best but it now being known. And this is just one little section where many can claim to be "detailers", but actually some are at completely different levels to others... 

I suppose a professional body could go some way to mitigating these issues, but how far would be interesting to watch... I guess where paint correction or enhancement is concerned, I can only encourage that people look for lighting shots under different light sources and detailed paint depth measurements for removal rates to properly judge a finish and the quality of work and where these don't exist, question in your mind why. 

At the end of the day though, I sit in a different place to years ago - I am no longer involved in detailing as a business, and as a whole I find detailing a lot less interesting than I used to as my priorities changed. I guess the marketing heavy world where there seems nothing new for me is, frankly, now rather boring and when you combine this with the rebranding issues (whether or not this goes on), it just fuels the power of marketing which I find discouraging from and end users point of view. Personally of course, I know many others are very happy and that is great, and long may they continue to enjoy it all.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

R0B said:


> So in the days of a simple car wash being classed as a detail and warranting a write up with photos.
> Is the word now just a throwaway term that is used for cleaning anything these days
> Thoughts guys?


If its been washed in the finest in filtered goats milk using a wash mitt that not even the gods could create, 'tis classed as a detail when in reality is a glamourised wash with some flashy photography. Is the term over used, yes.



Lowiepete said:


> So, according to you Dooka, the term should only be used by professionals.
> This is where I start to harrumph...
> 
> For many years, when my hands worked, I was a railway modeller. Mostly
> ...


Nicely put though I would be interested in knowing the true stats on business to enthusiast on here. I would hazard a 75% business going under the radar.



-Raven- said:


> Washing is washing. Polishing is polishing. Detailing is getting the crap out of the cracks!


Blunt. To the point. There may be a little more to it than that but I like your way of portrayal.:lol:



dooka said:


> AndyC, you are spot on to an extent. I have had words with DW about the amount that are signing up and offering in my eyes, sub standard work, or if the term needs to be tagged to it, substandard details..
> 
> Like you, there is only a handfull of people I would allow to touch my car, some have years of experience, some don't, but understand what the game is all about..
> 
> ...


Can o worms. Yep indeedy. Ive been saying it in a number of posts of late. BS and misinformation is amidst like the plague. Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Me, I find myself in the gorilla camp. I need a decent feed so have to charge a few bananas accordingly.:lol:



dooka said:


> Yes, but it is a case of funding so called Trade Body, don't get me wrong, I am all for a trade body and would happily give some of my time where I could to help run it..
> 
> I was chatting to two separate bodies about this, both had great ideas, but would not work along side each other, one had the funding and the other had the platform..
> 
> ...


Good and bad in all trades. Many bad always slip through the net hence why reputation built over time is as good as word itself as a trade body imo. The mention of trade bodies has been thrown into the equation time and time again. Who is qualified enough to dictate whom is good, whom is bad and how we conduct business / services etc. No one. Time served skill and ethics would be the way to begin but not all long time served have a fine eye for true detail. Most have there favourite subject or specialist section to detailing / valeting / whatever you want to call it but there are other aspects that go so badly over seen its cringworthy.



SteveyG said:


> Seriously? A trade body for detailing? :lol:
> 
> I don't think joe public pays attention to whether someone calls themselves a valeter, detailer or whatever. Most people will decide what kind of company you are based on your prices.


They most certainly do pay attention to what they are searching for. Many I have dealt with have usually used a car valeting service but then felt they wanted more and a friend or colleague has mentioned they need a car detail and hey presto:detailer:

Those that dont care what they are looking for are the ones fuelling the demise of detailing through cheapening the services. Not all is down to the service provider. There is always 2 sides to every coin.



bigmc said:


> Doesn't it need to be a trade before a trade body is established?


Valeting is known as a trade and detailing is slowly creeping up the rear so both are or will soon be deemed trades. A driver is know as a trade.... Thats hardly fuggin rocket science now is it:lol:



-PJB- said:


> Guys... have you considered the flip side of this? So not those working as detailers who may have a rightful interest in retaining detailing's 'top tier' meaning, but those producing and selling the products.
> 
> Clearly, its in the interest of 'detailing' product makers, licencers and resellers if everyone and his dog thinks they're gods gift to detailing by buying some posh potions and a tarty wax for the family fleet; treat your Fiat like a Ferrari and all that jazz.
> 
> So who, or what, is driving the 'everyman' detailing agenda? The chancer with a rotary in his hand and a shed load of posh products, looking to make a few quid... or those selling the "tools of the experts"!?


A big thing ive personally said for a while is the window of car care products is open in full effect to a point that a good number of what I and many others would deem professional use only products being sold to Joe public. Cheapening the trade yet again but the car care market is a big thing now and who are we to judge whom sells what to whom?



AndyC said:


> Dunno but this one will never reach an answer everyone's happy with.
> 
> New baby coming soon - my priorities are way different to 10 years ago


WTG AndyC. Nice to meet a human that see's family as more important than what wax is best for sheeting fork lighting from the vehicles tyres:thumb:

Right, Im off bed. This reading typing mallarky has tired me out.:driver:


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Dave KG said:


> Taking *one aspect* of detailing, that being paint correction, and it would seem that many more are offering services revolving around this and hinging detailing on it. It is, at the end of the day, paint correction or enhancement but what of the standards of it these days? I see a lot of examples of battering paintwork with heavy compounds and refining put the mess in order to achieve quick correction results - this to me is paint butchering, taking nothing into account as to what is actually being done and not taking the true car that is required to correct paint safely and correctly. A difference here between detailing (taking the time to do it right) and what is not really detailing, ie battering out a result quickly. In terms of quality, well it is becoming ever harder to judge going on many studio posts these days - you see detailing claimed, "enhancements", paint correction ya de ya da but all I see are a few glossy shots that tell me nothing about the quality of the finish that is there. My Subaru looks great in the correct lighting, but the sides of it are covered in marks from gorse bushes after the recent weather brought down trees and blocked roads - they wont show up in many glossy pictures though! Neither will poor machine finishing, so when all I see is glossy afters without many different lighting sources I cannot help but wonder why I am not being presented in a "show-off my work" thread with evidence of the true results achieved. It certainly makes those that do this stand out from the crowd as being head and shoulders above those who don't (in my opinion), as they are clearly showing their work to those who know what they are looking for! And this, alas, is an important point - a shiny glossy car can look amazing when photographed right, and if it is a flash car then it gets all the "great job awesome car" etc posts which to me shows many don't actually know what they are looking for in terms of a claimed paint enhancement or correction. Worrying, because if many don't know what they are looking for in terms of a good result, how can those who are not achieving the best be differentiated from those who are? Without the knowledge of what constitutes a good job, this is hard and with more and more dirty car to glossy car posts I cannot help but feel quality is being diluted to the detriment of those who really genuinely are producing the best but it now being known. And this is just one little section where many can claim to be "detailers", but actually some are at completely different levels to others...


I've disagreed with you over things in the past Dave but I found myself nodding in agreement with the above part especially


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Clark @ PB said:


> I just see it as this in short: If you're good at what you do then word of mouth alone will make sure you have a fairly big and loyal customer base with new customers always coming through the door so I see no real reason for a body as such.
> 
> Also, who's going to assess your or my detailing work to say whether it's good enough or not?


This is the same as any business built on sound foundations and saving on marketing , I don't have detailing business , but all my clients are from referrals :thumb:


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Seems to be more of what I have got and what I have spend now than the work.
I had a dumpy unit and did great work, always have done good work.

But unless you have the latest machines and several of them, clinically clean premises and more tool boxes than a F1 team you are deamed not worthy.

I am proud to carry my cloths in a Sainsburys bag, pads in my Stanley roll around box and usually everything else all over the place.

Trade body, na no chance. I would jag it in as they may say my old clarke rotary is not appropriate.

Had enough with Corgi over the years and at least that is set up to save lives, machine polishing a car will hardly kill anyone. 

The biggest hurdle is customers expectations, hence why I do not offer full corrections as such as advertising full correction, I offer the best I can do with what the customer is prepared to pay.

Weekend warriors will always be there, there are lots and lots with big social media fan bases who seem to feed them with cars. Plus they have the luxury of taking the jobs they fancy as they still get a salary and seem to promote themselves on what I have to play with now etc.

Anyway my 2p worth.


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## WashMitt (May 27, 2010)

I agree with the statement that the term Detailing is overused. 

I see a lot of other enthusiasts on here start a thread with 'detailed the car today' I see it as a bit pompous and a way of showing the guy that uses a sponge that it some way your better than him because you know the two bucket method. 

I also agree that people have got swept away in the tide of new products coming out and it's making the forum very elitist, I hope the recent ********** wax saga has woke a few people up!!

As for all your professionals debating who's worthy of calling themselves 'Detailiers' I'll leave that with you, I don't pretend to know about that side of it. I do think that there are some who stand above others KDS for example but I'm no one to judge. 

One other thing (only slightly related) I have met quiet a few members on this site during my time being here and iv got to say the one thing that has struck me is that a lot of the hobbyists claim to be well into the care of their cars yet when you actually see them it amazes me the state of some of them!! I wonder out of all the members on here how many actually stick to what's said on here during their weekly washes.

I think that some people like the idea of being a 'detailer' more than the actual work it takes to be one or just keep the car in good condition.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

WashMitt said:


> One other thing (only slightly related) I have met quiet a few members on this site during my time being here and iv got to say the one thing that has struck me is that a lot of the hobbyists claim to be well into the care of their cars yet when you actually see them it amazes me the state of some of them!! I wonder out of all the members on here how many actually stick to what's said on here during their weekly washes.
> 
> I think that some people like the idea of being a 'detailer' more than the actual work it takes to be one or just keep the car in good condition.


You might find that some members lack the time required to maintain their cars to a high standard  I would claim to be moderately well into my car car, but both of my cars are a state right now - covered in mud and salt. I'm not going to wash them when there's two foot of snow outside however and my limited spare time is now completely taken up with many other things... one of my cars in particular is now badly scored down one side because I had no choice on my way to work but to mount up onto the verge and ease past a fallen tree - hello gorse bushes. Wasn't going to call in work and say I was going to be late because I didn't want to scratch the car - life takes its toll on working cars, but I don't think that because my cars wear the work they do it makes me any less good as a "detailer" or whatever it is called these days


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## WashMitt (May 27, 2010)

Dave KG said:


> You might find that some members lack the time required to maintain their cars to a high standard  I would claim to be moderately well into my car car, but both of my cars are a state right now - covered in mud and salt. I'm not going to wash them when there's two foot of snow outside however and my limited spare time is now completely taken up with many other things... one of my cars in particular is now badly scored down one side because I had no choice on my way to work but to mount up onto the verge and ease past a fallen tree - hello gorse bushes. *Wasn't going to call in work and say I was going to be late because I didn't want to scratch the car* - life takes its toll on working cars, but I don't think that because my cars wear the work they do it makes me any less good as a "detailer" or whatever it is called these days


You've changed Dave you've changed!!!


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

WashMitt said:


> You've changed Dave you've changed!!!


No he hasn't,he still takes up all of DW's bandwidth in a single post!


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Lots I had to say on this particular subject


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

Some interesting if unsurprising answers.

Im firmly in the camp of overused and in the past have been guilty of overusing it.

Now for me i clean my own car and machine it when needed, dont do others cars in any way shape or form any more and clean my own to a very high standard, however i never say ive detailed it now its either washed or polished as required etc

Understand comments on a trade body but has as been said many times before, unpolicable so pointless and would add no value to any established business at all.


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## Jdudley90 (Mar 13, 2011)

I think it is to easily used, every tom, dick and harry on every car forum now seems to have a wash mitt and a towel and are tagging it as detailing, personally I prefer to use 'car care' as I know I look after my car but it's definately not as clinical as others expecially the concours car show goers


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## Z4-35i (Jun 12, 2012)

For me personally it's in the level, care and attention to 'detail'.

As the OP states, it's a term that now gets over used and abused, where you have the two extremes of the car park wash for £5 with some dirty rags and a tank of water through to the 5 day full paint correction detail, where every part of the car is brought back to better than new.

I don't think you could every call just a car wash a detail, even if using pre-wash, snow foam, 2BM, drying towels etc. However in terms of what get's posted in 'The Showroom', I've no issues with people posting pictures of clean cars, even if they've not had a full detail or paint correction.


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## ConorF (Oct 3, 2012)

overused is an understatement, seen this d**k beside me advertising a full bodywork detail for £20


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## cobray (Jan 11, 2013)

ConorF said:


> overused is an understatement, seen this d**k beside me advertising a full bodywork detail for £20


Lol. Shud put a banner saying in your dreams pointing to his place.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Beau Technique said:


> They most certainly do pay attention to what they are searching for. Many I have dealt with have usually used a car valeting service but then felt they wanted more and a friend or colleague has mentioned they need a car detail and hey presto:detailer:
> 
> Those that dont care what they are looking for are the ones fuelling the demise of detailing through cheapening the services. Not all is down to the service provider. There is always 2 sides to every coin.


I think you missed my point, but never mind.


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

detailing ftw


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

To answer the question is the term Detailing over used. Plain and simply yes it is.

But it also take on a new meaning to us all. We all have mixed abilities and to this end detailing in this example is working to the individuals maximum potential and his abilities. I think it is also safe to say that a safe wash is something that is mastered and learned by everyone on the forum at an early stage. Before venturing out to master and learn other techniques. So I would not categories the wash process as a detail, but an important element within the detail.

This brings me to another phases that can be miss interoperated and over used in today's market place. Paint Enhancement. This can either be a filler paint cleanser or a 1 stage or 2 stage machine polish. All option enhance the paint. And obviously some are more permanent than others. But the viewing public need to be aware of this when contacting any party with the view to enhance their paint. It is not always apparent in today's current climate and pricing on individuals sites. So do not be afraid to ask questions regarding the welfare of your pride and joy when considering what the detailer has on offer. I can only speak for my company and say paint enhancement details always involve a cutting or corrections stage, not filler type products.

Now without sounding up my own @rse. Most creditable detailers & they are becoming a rarity unfortunately these days. Supply a service that is not a chore or a burden. They do it for the love of it, the transformation, look on the clients face and well as self satisfaction. Most will go the extra mile and not stop short until they have peace of mind and have produced quality work that will stand there business in a good light for others to view. Yes they have over heads as another business, some more than others. So pricing has also to be considered. A good client base, continual return custom and above all word of mouth advertising. Should always be considered and imperative to every business. 

In today's present market place, there has been a swing and it seems more expectable to have an all singing and dance web site. With little or no experience, when dealing with certain paint types or products. There has been a major shift to where it is more expectable to take a cheaper pricing than to consider the long term and future welfare of their vehicle. We all strive for perfection and this is why most are here. But at what cost??? Correction or anything close to correction cannot be completed in a day. Regardless of what other may tell you. There are many example that could be mentioned eg. DA micro fibre system used to correct then all marring hidden with protection and ceramic products. You would be surprised as to what goes on in todays times. Unfortunately this has shown up many a time even in here. Where certain individuals have used and continue to use these techniques offering a service that is quick and effective. But will only show up at a later date.

Rob has previously mentioned that he could easily count, who he classes as competent and creditable and I am inclined to agree. I have been around this scene long enough and carrying out enough corrections to read between the lines and am well aware as to the short comings and misleading information regarding this industry and those that participate in this. And to be brutally honest they would be well suited to take a step back and learn their trade. Before attempting to work on others cars. But would be hard pushes as I personally would not even employ them to sweep the floor correctly.

True paint correction takes time monitoring the paint and only removing enough for the said defect to be removed while leaving enough and conserve the clear for a later day. Why decimate the clear when only a few individual marks may require and extra bit of cut or working over a localised area. These are all example that everyone should be aware of and in turn saving your vehicle for later on.

I have read the calls for a governing body and where there are plus point. I cannot see it coming to light or even becoming workable in todays present climate or in the future. True and creditable detailers as mention do what they do not for medals. But because this is what they know and is expected of them. Not to mention their inner passion and desire which cannot be taught or learnt. They either have it or not. 

Who knows where the industry will go. I certainly do not. But one thing for sure and speaking to like minded individuals. Standards will not slip as far as these people are concerned. So we will continue to produce the top quality work that has maintained and built out companies in the past and hopefully this will continue in the face of cheaper and less than desirable quality and heavy handed approaches that are become more of the norm these days.

Yes I could have read the post a walked on by. But unfortunately, honesty, integrity and quality workmanship within the industry means more to me personally than to turn the other cheek.
Gordon.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Dave KG said:


> Taking *one aspect* of detailing, that being paint correction, and it would seem that many more are offering services revolving around this and hinging detailing on it. It is, at the end of the day, paint correction or enhancement but what of the standards of it these days? I see a lot of examples of battering paintwork with heavy compounds and refining put the mess in order to achieve quick correction results - this to me is paint butchering, taking nothing into account as to what is actually being done and not taking the true car that is required to correct paint safely and correctly. A difference here between detailing (taking the time to do it right) and what is not really detailing, ie battering out a result quickly. In terms of quality, well it is becoming ever harder to judge going on many studio posts these days - you see detailing claimed, "enhancements", paint correction ya de ya da but all I see are a few glossy shots that tell me nothing about the quality of the finish that is there. My Subaru looks great in the correct lighting, but the sides of it are covered in marks from gorse bushes after the recent weather brought down trees and blocked roads - they wont show up in many glossy pictures though! Neither will poor machine finishing, so when all I see is glossy afters without many different lighting sources I cannot help but wonder why I am not being presented in a "show-off my work" thread with evidence of the true results achieved. It certainly makes those that do this stand out from the crowd as being head and shoulders above those who don't (in my opinion), as they are clearly showing their work to those who know what they are looking for! And this, alas, is an important point - a shiny glossy car can look amazing when photographed right, and if it is a flash car then it gets all the "great job awesome car" etc posts which to me shows many don't actually know what they are looking for in terms of a claimed paint enhancement or correction. Worrying, because if many don't know what they are looking for in terms of a good result, how can those who are not achieving the best be differentiated from those who are? Without the knowledge of what constitutes a good job, this is hard and with more and more dirty car to glossy car posts I cannot help but feel quality is being diluted to the detriment of those who really genuinely are producing the best but it now being known. And this is just one little section where many can claim to be "detailers", but actually some are at completely different levels to others...


Now, I've always read your posts with good intent and purposes and do have respect for you doing what you have done for DW in the past but I have to say that is a little contradictive of yourself there David. I spend a level of time each day checking in on DW to see whats happening, whats new, who's s**t stiring etc and have to say that I have seen yourself personally comment on a few threads by x,y and z that have been poorly lit, fancy camera angles and or blatantly obvious poor craftsmanship yet your comment has been along the lines of a positive "great to see showing of levels of correction" I sit back, read again and think.... Is he actually looking at the same thing here?

Another note... you state that knowledge portrayed though photography is the be all of it? Mentions of some giving positive replies again with regards to the thread being a flash car. You have again commented on a number of things I and many others ( if they would dare say so ( They have done behind closed doors ) wouldn't dream of as its not showing a true element of correction. Its not showing under correct light sources. The pictures really aren't showing anything bar a glossy car under strip lights. Im not one for this getting uptight and retaliation nonsense but there is far too much crossed criticism going on at present and here, this is a fine example I'm sorry to say.



caledonia said:


> To answer the question is the term Detailing over used. Plain and simply yes it is.
> 
> But it also take on a new meaning to us all. We all have mixed abilities and to this end detailing in this example is working to the individuals maximum potential and his abilities. I think it is also safe to say that a safe wash is something that is mastered and learned by everyone on the forum at an early stage. Before venturing out to master and learn other techniques. So I would not categories the wash process as a detail, but an important element within the detail.
> 
> ...


Spot on Gordon. The good will outweigh and outlast the bad.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Beau Technique said:


> Now, I've always read your posts with good intent and purposes and do have respect for you doing what you have done for DW in the past but I have to say that is a little contradictive of yourself there David. I spend a level of time each day checking in on DW to see whats happening, whats new, who's s**t stiring etc and have to say that I have seen yourself personally comment on a few threads by x,y and z that have been poorly lit, fancy camera angles and or blatantly obvious poor craftsmanship yet your comment has been along the lines of a positive "great to see showing of levels of correction" I sit back, read again and think.... Is he actually looking at the same thing here?
> 
> Another note... you state that knowledge portrayed though photography is the be all of it? Mentions of some giving positive replies again with regards to the thread being a flash car. You have again commented on a number of things I and many others ( if they would dare say so ( They have done behind closed doors ) wouldn't dream of as its not showing a true element of correction. Its not showing under correct light sources. The pictures really aren't showing anything bar a glossy car under strip lights. Im not one for this getting uptight and retaliation nonsense but there is far too much crossed criticism going on at present and here, this is a fine example I'm sorry to say.
> 
> Spot on Gordon. The good will outweigh and outlast the bad.


No, I think we have crossed wires based on your second paragraph - at no point do I say photography is the be all and end all, I say that without the photography in a writeup is is very difficult to say what kind of results are being achieved. At no point do I mention knowledge of the detailer, I mention results achieved and these are two very different things. The knowledge mentioned here in my previous post is taken as knowledge of the public as to what they are looking for, again different things. Or perhaps we are talking the same knowledge here... What perhaps is lacking is the ability of many to judge results being blinded by glossy pics, and even seeing this in person. Extending on that, the photographs can be used to misrepresent what is actually being achieved and this is where the big issues lie, whether or not this is being done on purpose or not. Maybe a solution therefore would be some form of guidance as to what to look for in photography in detailing writeups. I'm sure there are many who could produce that in a couple of hours of work!

Perhaps you could cite some examples of my comments of recent times so that I can see which threads we are disagreeing on, as usually I take lot of time to read studio posts to see what is being claimed and what is being demonstrated, especially the section with regards to "true correction" and your double bracket as I am not sure I am reading that correctly... Cite the threads to me so I can have a look (by PM). Perhaps I have been lazier in my comments recently, but I though my recent posts were reflecting my feelings cited in my post above. Bear in mind my Showroom posts are generally a lot less "critical", as when I read a Studio post I perhaps expect a much higher standard. PM me with the threads you are talking about, as without knowing them, I cannot understand your comment above and would like to get to the bottom of it.


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## Rgk Detailing (Dec 6, 2006)

caledonia said:


> To answer the question is the term Detailing over used. Plain and simply yes it is.
> 
> But it also take on a new meaning to us all. We all have mixed abilities and to this end detailing in this example is working to the individuals maximum potential and his abilities. I think it is also safe to say that a safe wash is something that is mastered and learned by everyone on the forum at an early stage. Before venturing out to master and learn other techniques. So I would not categories the wash process as a detail, but an important element within the detail.
> 
> ...





Beau Technique said:


> Spot on Gordon. The good will outweigh and outlast the bad.


Well said Gordon.


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## WannaBd (Dec 18, 2010)

R0B said:


> So in the days of a simple car wash being classed as a detail and warranting a write up with photos.
> Is the word now just a throwaway term that is used for cleaning anything these days
> Thoughts guys?


It's over used in that sense, to me detailing is hours upon hours of work, correcting paint defects, not just a wash.


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## P.A.D (Jun 26, 2008)

WannaBd said:


> It's over used in that sense, to me detailing is hours upon hours of work, correcting paint defects, not just a wash.


*Perfection*, That's what it's all about. Detailing,Valeting, Car Cleaning etc, It's all to do with how we like our cars to look or how our customers want there cars to look.

This is a very long discussion of the in's and out's of what is A or B. It;s surely about how happy we are with our own car or how happy we are with a Clients car and more so how happy the Client is with the car presented to them. I would love to see a trade body of some description buy know that it won't work and could not be implemented. Only have to look at the VBRA for Bodyshops to realise that.

Most of us on here clean cars to a very high level. Some Weekend Warriors (Sorry Guys) turn out work that would shame 60 + % of the so called Detailer's out there

Some guys just wash there car better than the next guy and Some Pro Detailers turn out work that is utter ****e. I know. I'v seen them in the flesh.
But being called Detailers/Valeters or whatever doesn't really matter. As long as whoever concerned is happy with the result then so be it.

The so called people who call themselves Detailer's and put out a ****ty job will fail in the end. Simple's really. 
Been in this game long before it was classed as Detailing and seen lot's come and go. The good guys stay, They have normally worked in Bodyshops or been Valeting for a long time and progressed to what we now call Detailing. It's a long process to get their and no way is anyone going to do it in a couple of years. The businesses that have been going for a while and keep learning to stay at the top of there game will remain. I know a lot of good Detailers and they are *NOT* worried about the term Detailing being marked down as they are good at what they do and there customers will keep coming back. Perfection has to be a key word here as this is what we all want to achieve,

The word Detailing is overused but at the end of the day. So what. If it makes whoever happy then great................

By the way I'm nearly half way down a bottle of Vodka so excuse my ramblings. As always these are my opinion only....

Russ.

Russ


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## Spirit Detailing (Mar 29, 2007)

Detailing is removing traces of previous ownership of a car through the implementation of reproducable and efficient processes, partnered with the mastering of high quality valet skills, knowledge of chemicals, understanding of the various automotive surfaces and what will degrade them, education in the chemical attributes of soluble and non-soluble contaminants, dirt, stains and soiling, the knowledge of changes and advances made by automotive manufactures in their use of paint, vinyl, leather, metals, plastics, etc., engaging in continuing education, keeping abreast of product technology and how to filter useful from non-useful information..... 

and most importantly, learning that the only detailer you need to be better than is yourself. 

For anyone thinking of becoming a detailer, I would strongly advise that they first learn the noble art of the car valet which involves educating yourself on chemicals, surfaces, processes, etc. You don't become a detailer by attending a "detailing" training course, nor by simply being able to do a paint correction. 

Sure its a nice title to have - "Detailer". Have you learned and earned it though? To me, its like buying a Medical Degree online from the University of Los Cojones De Toro and advertising it so much, you start to believe your own bs. I can't stand diva detailers and you can always spot the ones who learned detailing online. You can always spot the Detailers who, if you threw them 4 cars to valet in one day, they wouldn't have a clue where to begin, finish or end. 

Thats just the tip of the iceberg on the subject, but yes, also in my opinion, the word detailer is over-used, not to mention misunderstood.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

I know everyone goes on about enhancements but to 80% of my customer base that is all they require. Majority swirl removal and leave the smaller scratches in the paint. 

An enhancement on a black car makes a super difference and proberbly better than when it left the factory. We do these all the time and in an 8 hour day can do a 2 stage polish compound and finish with the rotary. No fillers as we IPA the car and panel wipe it before protection products. If a ceramic coating then it has to stay overnight due to the curing process. An enhancement is no interior work or hours cleaning wheels, it is just that.

I know I offer a good service and to most an enhancement of almost the correction except for the attention to the other marks in the car. Then we are lookign at 3 days + to do this work.

A lot of it comes down to budget of the customer, I know what I can do for say £xxx and customers jaws drop when they see the finished car. The customers who are prepared to pay £800 or more their jaws drop lower but they have paid for the service.

It is always the case from customers, I want XXXX's detail but only have £xxx. My response is go to XXXX then. Busy enough as it is.

I only offer full corrections; (even if you can get full correction as how much clear to remove for some scratches) minimum 5 days charged by the hour. 

I do not do hard 50/50's in the paint as these can show in the sun light so my posts tend to not look to good. I am moving to paint restoration and paint protection so I don't have to do interiors and will over time drop the detailing from the company name.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

I manage to detail my way down the isles in Tesco so who gives a [email protected] Enjoy what you do and let others describe themselves as they see fit. I am after all a professor of mathmatics with the knowledge equalling the square root of [email protected] all.


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## P.A.D (Jun 26, 2008)

HeavenlyDetail said:


> I manage to detail my way down the isles in Tesco so who gives a [email protected] Enjoy what you do and let others describe themselves as they see fit. I am after all a professor of mathmatics with the knowledge equalling the square root of [email protected] all.


Coolio dude, Are you half way down a bottle too.............:thumb:


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Funnily enough i have a JD with me right now hahaha...


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## DetailMyCar (Apr 19, 2010)

HeavenlyDetail said:


> I manage to detail my way down the isles in Tesco so who gives a [email protected] Enjoy what you do and let others describe themselves as they see fit. I am after all a professor of mathmatics with the knowledge equalling the square root of [email protected] all.


Well said Marc, too many people have too much to say about what others are doing or calling themselves...

As long as you have happy paying customers that like what you do everyone should be happy!


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## P.A.D (Jun 26, 2008)

Way to go dude......:thumb:

I'v now just passed the halfway mark. Time to stop and head for bed me thinks......


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

P.A.D said:


> Way to go dude......:thumb:
> 
> I'v now just passed the halfway mark. Time to stop and head for bed me thinks......


Yea the funny thing is i travel to work with a woman who works for Jack Daniels just off Oxford Street and its great!



Have the honey one rocking at the moment but alas i should head off after ive finished my Frosties.


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## CleanDetail (Mar 7, 2009)

DetailMyCar said:


> Well said Marc, too many people have too much to say about what others are doing or calling themselves...
> 
> As long as you have happy paying customers that like what you do everyone should be happy!


Could not have put that better my self. :thumb:


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## P.A.D (Jun 26, 2008)

HeavenlyDetail said:


> Yea the funny thing is i travel to work with a woman who works for Jack Daniels just off Oxford Street and its great!
> 
> 
> 
> Have the honey one rocking at the moment but alas i should head off after ive finished my Frosties.


See you ar 7.30 am dude..


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

DetailMyCar said:


> Well said Marc, too many people have too much to say about what others are doing or calling themselves...
> 
> As long as you have happy paying customers that like what you do everyone should be happy!


You hit the nail on the head. Enhancement, correction, full correction etc; who really gives a monkeys. Is the paying customer at the end and if they are happy with a one day, 2 day or what ever day detail then I am happy.

Perhaps the stripping of cars and resprays is not ideally for DW, it has taken it to Restoration World. I don't post my restoration and strip down jobs as I feel it is not detailing. Plus is a waste of my time as I go to other forums for this. Must dig out the MK1 Cortina full strip and rebuild I did a few years back thread, I deemed this not detailing and only put it on a few dedicated forums.

Now am off to bed as the Brandy is making me sleepy........zzzzzzzz


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

I wont get into this like i used to in the past, which doesnt mean i am not as passionate about it now as i was back then but just sit back, have a read and plod on but what i will sort of highlight is the "golfer vs Pro golfer" analogy, yes its still the same game, but thats where the similarities end, in this instance detailing has just been referred to as a game, it is not, far from, people have to make a living from this not money just to go out on the lash, most of us dont have rich mommy's and daddy's to fund their business or habit as it may come across as, most of us have to work hard at building the foundations of our business and dont just turn up, take a few quid and run off to the battle cruiser, hell if i had a rich family i would have my own bodyshop, but i dont so it will have to wait such is the outlay.

Which brings me onto the term "Detailing", yes i think its over used and i see people saying who cares what people call themselves as long as the customer is happy, sorry that dont wash with me, although i dont give 2 squirts of rusty monkey **** what they call themselves because most of us on here know they are just extremely good at cleaning cars, which is no bad because its the "Term" that has done this.

But lets go back to what people call themselves and that most dont give a crap, would that be your response should the term be "Professional Automotive Sprayer" would you take your car to a guy that had picked a Devilbiss up for 1 day then all of a sudden was a professional painter, think not.

Then there is the picture whore, nice pot of expensive in the frame on every thread, yes its marketing and this may or may not get me some backlash but what do pictures of expensive products actually mean, jack shi7, then there are approvals etc, what do authorisations and approvals galore mean, for me jack shi7, doesnt make me any better than i already am, may teach me something about their products but thats what DW is for, to learn about new products etc because no one man can say they know it all (all though a few profess to) so why would i need to have an array of approvals plastered all over my website because it certainly aint gonna make me better at what i do. Yeah maybe good for marketing and will bring in the fanboys for such products but eventually folk will get fed up with picture whoring, and think same old same old. 

Take a certain authorisation that costs a fair chunk of cash, meant naff all when the car in question came to me because said detailer c0cked it up. But yet it seems the way forward, free advertising for someone that wants a fair chunk of my hard earned cash, think not.

Anyway thats me not getting too involved.:doublesho


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## sat1983 (Jan 27, 2007)

There seems to be lots of jealousy on here- when I first joined DW was a much more helpful place, it isn't the same anymore.
I wish people would stop picking at each other's work and just get on with their own stuff, if you do a good job customers will definitely return- it's literally as simple as that.


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

I'm the best detailer there is, I don't call what I do detailing though, thats for peasants.

I call it Super Vehicle Hyper Clean Refreshment. It's £75 for a full 2 day paint correction.

Seriously though, I can see both points here. Detailing has become popularised and it's now well known. Work speaks for itself, it doesn't matter what you call it.


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