# First try of ONR- some opinions and questions



## Stevoraith (Mar 15, 2008)

So after the advice about sponges last week and the kind freebie from Wee Green Mini, I managed to try out ONR twice last week.

Hmmmm. Jury is still definitely out.

Maybe my technique needs some refinement, maybe I'm being paranoid, maybe I'm expecting too much, or maybe I'm just plain doing it wrong!

Hopefully you guys can maybe provide some guidance and/or reassurance.

I washed my car first (E46 330d) which was a bit dusty and had a few bug splatters on the front but wasn't too dirty.
I washed the wheels earlier in the day using the traditional hose and bucket method so I was purely concentrating on the paintwork.

My technique was as follows;

Spray whole car with pre-wash mixed at about 35:1.
Before washing each panel, I repeated the spray with the pre-wash.
I then wrung out the sponge slightly in my wash bucket (approx 1 and a half caps to ten litres, so about 400:1) so that it was wet but not dripping.
Wiped over the panel lightly
Sprayed panel with meguiars Last Touch and then dried with an Elite Ultra plush drying towel
Started from the roof and did the whole car like that, including the windows.

I had two main concerns;
1- The drying towels were very dirty by the end of the wash (I used two towels for the whole car) 
2- the bug splatter was not removed. I was very mindful of the advice about not rubbing too hard so I re-soaked the area with the pre-spray three or four times and let it dwell for ages but the bugs didn't come off. I've never had a problem with bugs using a snow foam and TBM wash.

Undettered I decided to try the wifes Octavia vRS the following night. Hers was slightly dirtier than mine as it had been driven in the rain more but it was still fairly clean and it had almost zero bug splatter. The big difference was that I decided to try doing the wheels with ONR too.

I altered my technique slightly in that I didn't pre-spray the whole car first, I just did it panel by panel, allowing 30seconds or so between spraying and washing.
Out of neccessity (as the plush towels were now filthy) I also changed my drying towels to a more regular microfibre type of towel. Something like this.
The rest of the car was washed the same way as before.

The problems came when doing the wheels. It probably would have been better if I'd just done the faces, but as they are quite open spokes, you really have to do the insides of the wheels too if you want them to look clean. This meant a lot of dirt was running down the wheels and without a hose to rinse all the dirty water away it left them looking not too great. I used an old Autoglym chamois to dry them but I really felt there was still too much dirt on the wheels to safely dry them. 
Now I could have got the hose out and rinsed them off but it kind of defeats the purpose of Optimum No Rinse! Do others just do the faces and forget about the backs? 

So after that I was even less convinced that ONR is the answer. Especially when I realised that it had taken about 50mins to do the paintwork and another 20 minutes or so to do the wheels. I guess I'll get quicker but it takes me about 90minutes to do a full foam/wash/dry/dress tyres with total peace of mind. If ONR is only going to save me half an hour then I'm seriously doubting if it's worth it.

So just to be clear here are my full list of issues with ONR, maybe someone can reassure me or tell me how to improve my technique to address these issues;

1- Wheels cannot be done thoroughly
2- Drying towels are filthy after one wash
3- Stubborn bugs difficult to remove
4- Arches etc are not cleaned
5- Really doesn't save much time
6- Can you use the same technique to do door shuts etc?

I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet, but at the moment I really can't see it becoming a regular method for me.


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## mattsbmw (Jul 20, 2008)

Few answers from my experience,

1. i have never got on with onr for wheels, i have always used wheel cleaner, brush and hose rinse.

2. if the drying towels is filthy you havent washed the panel properly, i would wipe over with sponge then turn sponge over and wipe same area again and see if that helps.

3. a quick spray of apc will help soften and remove bugs

4. correct , has to be done as a separate job, you can use ONR but the wheels need to come off

5. with time it will get quicker i can wash the body work of my 307 estate in around 20 mins.

6. Yes


Do keep going with it and you will get there.


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

remeber another point to ONR is also the use of less equipment no dragging hoses, setting up pressure washers, foam everywhere etc... not too mention the amount of water used.

ONR wont get rid of dried on bug marks etc but these can be removed easily with other products etc...

are your wheels sealed? as you should be able to clean them with ONR and then rinse with a watering can if your also doing the inners (providing there not left for months i guess)

as said some panels may require a few passes to ensure they are clean

20 mins for a clean on the focus also, ONR has made life a hell of alot easier especially in the summer when its just dust etc......


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## E38_ross (May 10, 2010)

keep at it, it takes a while to get used to. i have also found an MF cloth far better than a sponge. instead of just 1 pass, do a couple of passes with filthy panels and the drying towels should come out clean. it will save time, but not in the washing as such, more in prep work (not having to bugger about getting the hose pipe out etc). but the main reason for ONR is for people who don't have hose pipes.

never tried it on wheels though. if you have no hose etc then i just use a normal wheel cleaner and then use a spray bottle to spray water at them. don't come out quite as well as with a jet washer but still quite well.


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## Stevoraith (Mar 15, 2008)

Thanks for the replies lads.

So for the wheels I'll try using a watering can to rinse off- never thought of that! I have access to a hose and power washer etc but as Ross says, would rather save time not getting it out. And also I'm thinking ONR could be particularly handy in the winter when the outside tap is frozen....

Dirty towels mean I haven't washed the panel properly- to be honest that is what I feared. Next time I'll do more passes before trying to dry and make sure it's spotlessly clean, but I was trying to keep contact to a minimum.

For the bugs, I'm a little disappointed that it won' take them off. I don't want to use APC as that will surely strip my wax, but bug removal is a pretty major part of the wash regime in the summer.

Do any of you bother with pre-spraying the whole car before doing each panel individually or is that just a waste of time (or even a hindrance)?

And what about windows? How do you do them? I seem to remember reading that ONR is quite aggressive on window sealants?

Ross, what type of MF cloth do you use? A fancy plush one or just the cheap type? May give that a go if I can't get on with the sponge.

Any further hints and tips would be welcomed, keep them coming :thumb:


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

As stated if towel dirty its not been washed throughly.

Could use a pump sprayer for the wheels.

As for Bugs most shampoo will need something extra for the bugs...

Here was my winter test...

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=197465


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

i have aquapel on my windows and also usually put opticoat when going round the car also and they still perform fine.

If the car is just dusty or from rain showers i dont use a prewash, but then tbh when i should its usually during winter which means either im using citrus prewash and pressure washer or foam and then perhaps a shampoo wash rather than ONR.

are you using 1 or 2bm


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## Stevoraith (Mar 15, 2008)

Just using 1bm with the ONR just now.

Do you think 2bm will give much benefit? Would probably help peace of mind if nothing else I guess!


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## PeterUK (Apr 21, 2011)

I 1BM mine but would be interested to know if many do 2BM; when I take the sponge out of the bucket it's clean enough for me. The ONR's sposed to make the water keep hold of the particles no?


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## gkerr4 (Oct 27, 2005)

i don't bother with the pre-sprays either - it's just a costly waste of time - the instructions don't ask for it and the product doesn't need it - just 1oz of product in 2US gallons of water - great product and medium car (3-series estate) done in about 15 - 20mins in total!

not so easy to do the wheels - but wiping with the sponge and rinsing with a little cold water in another bucket does the job - might try the waterring can idea actually - thats a good one.


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## E38_ross (May 10, 2010)

Stevoraith said:


> Ross, what type of MF cloth do you use? A fancy plush one or just the cheap type? May give that a go if I can't get on with the sponge.
> 
> Any further hints and tips would be welcomed, keep them coming :thumb:


i use these ones and found they're fine

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/microfibre-cloths/ultra-fine-buffing-towels-pkg/2/prod_192.html

they're now sold as red, not pink  i do use a super plush jobby for drying though 

i think they plush ones are better for drying, rather than for their cleaning ability, at least in my personal experience. i DO bother with a pre-wash. make the water reasonably warm (not hot, as this may harm waxes/sealants etc) and spray on reasonably concentrated solution. i use one of the hand-held pressure sprayers. do the whole car then wait couple of minutes before starting on 1st panel (usually the roof!) before starting my way around the car.

it takes time, practice and frustration. just bear with it. for the most part, it'll come up well. for really stubborn marks it won't work too well, but neither will normal shampoo.

remember, it'll kill normal beading/sheeting as it leaves a layer behind. your wax/sealant will still be underneath though.


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

gkerr4 said:


> i don't bother with the pre-sprays either - it's just a costly waste of time


Sorry, but that advice is just plain wrong. Just taking your own point, name 
any car shampoo that in essence describes a 2 bucket method for washing 
on its instructions. Several well-respected people here have advocated the 
pre-spray, and with very good reason.

From my experience with every Optimum product I have tried the whole ethos
behind their existence is to make the product do the work. OCW and OOS are 
two good examples of this, with the latter being so easy to apply it makes you
wonder why you'd bother with anything else.

ONR is not an exception to this. As a person with very limited motor function,
the _fact_ that ONR does most of the the work, provided that you let it, has 
been a tremendous boon for me. When I first tried it around 2 years ago, I 
tried all sorts of experiments and it wasn't long before the spray - dwell - 
wipe maxim became my mantra. Far from the pre-spray being either a waste
or indeed expensive, it will do away with over 60% of the effort and will
entirely eliminate the need for any rubbing.

All the advice that I've offered on here has been an extension of that given
by people with far more experience than I. It would not occur to me to write
off their advice with such a cavalier and frankly very risky approach.

Regards,
Steve


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## umi000 (Jan 14, 2011)

Just noticed you used a dilution of 400:1 - the manufacturer recommended dilution is 1 oz per 2 US gallons, which comes out to 256:1.


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## gkerr4 (Oct 27, 2005)

fair enough steve, i'm not "writing off" anyone elses advice - cavalier or otherwise - just stating my opinion.

i think that the pre-soak is a costly waste of time. ONR used as directed is an awesome quick-washing solution. 

however...
I wouldnt necessarily want to use it on a proper 'dirty' car, i'd wash that using more regular products involving pre-soaking, washing and rinsing. but on a weekly wash in good weather, ONR as directed is just fine for me.


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