# Honda to announce closure of Swindon plant.



## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

https://news.sky.com/story/honda-to-stun-ministers-with-closure-of-swindon-factory-11641154

This is devasting news for Swindon.

Not only are Honda a massive employer, there are many small businesses in Swindon that rely heavilly (or solely) on Honda contracts.

This will have a massive effect on employment in the town, the local economy, possibly even house prices.

Almost predictable after the Brexit vote and subsequent handling of the whole Brexit disaster, but shocking all the same. Then there's always the risk that BMW may leave too.


----------



## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Shiny said:


> https://news.sky.com/story/honda-to-stun-ministers-with-closure-of-swindon-factory-11641154
> 
> This is devasting news for Swindon.
> 
> ...


Would this have anything to do with Japan securing a free trade deal with the EU anyway?

More like bring jobs home now because we can, rather than getting out of dodge because brexit?


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Sad to see for sure, and unfortunately some are using brexit as a pawn or an excuse to move production out of the UK, but in car manufacturing their is underlying problems on a massive scale with derv sales falling off and, people unsure about move to electric yet.
The media for me is a big culprit for problems as well IMHO
Honda need a new design team as well to make their new cars stand out in an over crowded market or the Koreans will have their sales


----------



## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

Derekh929 said:


> The media for me is a big culprit for problems as well IMHO


Precisely. A modern diesel engine is no more pollutant than a modern petrol.

As for Brexit. Everyone is blaming it for everything. The country voted leave, majority didn't 'look at the bigger picture' and now they're moaning.

Let's see what happens at Luton with the Vivaro!


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

It's all very concerning. 

I've not read into the detail, but that trade deal between Japan and the EU sounds as if it'll totally shaft us. 

We really need to get a hold on things..


----------



## taz736 (Sep 5, 2011)

As Starbucks says Japan now have a free trade deal with EU so no longer need to manufacture here to get around tariffs. All about timing to deflect and blame brexit.


----------



## Gadgeteer (Feb 15, 2014)

Just my 2 pence worth, don't buy their products.


----------



## Hairy Pete (Oct 2, 2012)

The japanese can now build them at home keeping the jobs in Japan now that the Japanese have a trade agreement with the EU. Hopefully we can bring all the manufacturing jobs back from Europe after Brexit....many which were encouraged to leave with EU incentives over the past 20 years.


----------



## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

Kerr said:


> It's all very concerning.
> 
> I've not read into the detail, but that trade deal between Japan and the EU sounds as if it'll totally shaft us.
> 
> We really need to get a hold on things..


I agree but what concerns me every bit as much if not more is that our politicians are demonstrating day in day out that they are completely incapable of doing much useful at what is a critical time for our nation. Any government worth its salt would be working really hard at dealing with and planning a way ahead in the time left, sadly we don't have a government worth its salt. Our so called government and what passes for the "opposition" arent worth spit, what a pickle


----------



## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

Sad news indeed...


----------



## AnthonyUK (Jul 25, 2018)

taz736 said:


> As Starbucks says Japan now have a free trade deal with EU so no longer need to manufacture here to get around tariffs. All about timing to deflect and blame brexit.


Not entirely true. The UK leaving and Honda not having anywhere else in EU means the trade deal, which won't be tariff free for a decade, makes sense to move production back to Japan rather than open another site within EU. Brexit might not be the sole reason but definitely accelerated this.

Swindon voted to leave


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Honda are trouble anyway, they simply don't have the demand for their cars, if they want to blame anyone blame the south koreans for taking their sales.

Toyota and Nissan will be next, they were only here to get around imports into europe, given the eu have moved the goal posts with regards to the imports it makes more sense to build them in their home market rather than support the uk economy, if only we did the same.

The decline of diesels (which is a very good thing) certainly isn't helping, but lets be honest they were never suited to to what most people purchased them for and the likes of Honda and Toyota have always been petrol and hybrid bias.


----------



## shycho (Sep 7, 2010)

AnthonyUK said:


> Not entirely true. The UK leaving and Honda not having anywhere else in EU means the trade deal, which won't be tariff free for a decade, makes sense to move production back to Japan rather than open another site within EU. Brexit might not be the sole reason but definitely accelerated this.
> 
> Swindon voted to leave


Did Swindon also vote to implement tarriffs on Japenese motors? 
Perhaps if our glorious overlords had been a bit kinder to the Japenese, Honda would still have a bit more cash behind them to maintain a European manufacturing facility.


----------



## woodycivic (Jun 4, 2015)

The factory in Turkey will also close:

https://www.ft.com/content/d1c842f0-3391-11e9-bb0c-42459962a812


----------



## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Big business will always do what is good for them and their shareholders. They are not a service, they exist solely to make money. Everything they do is to maximize their profits.

I find the timing "convenient" to say the least.

If we hadn't starved our home grown manufacturing industries of investment and let them wither and die over the last 40 years would we be in this position now (regardless of Brexit)?

Sad news whatever.

I won't be surprised if others try to lever some sort of concessions/rebates etc. out of our Government with the promise of keeping various plants open and the threat of leaving if they don't get some "help" with their costs.

Andy.


----------



## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

As above, they're closing their Turkey Plant too and the boss of Honda UK said on Radio 4 earlier it's got nothing to do with Brexit and they were deciding between USA and Japan.


----------



## woodycivic (Jun 4, 2015)

From what i can see and my past experience of working in the car manufacturing Industry this has been coming for a long long time and is part of a long term Honda plan. I know brexit will be blamed and it is absolutely a factor, however this would have happened anyway in my opinion.

The Swindon plant in the past had produced a number of Honda vehicles (Jazz, CR-V, Accord, Civic) but slowly these have been cut and produced elsewhere:

Accord - production was stopped and moved elsewhere in 2002
CR-V - production was stopped and moved elsewhere in 2011
Jazz - production was stopped and moved elsewhere in 2013

Honda over the past 6-8 years have also been very stringent in terms of steel used in their cars. When tenders went out for components such as coil springs they had to use a specific steel sourced from Japan otherwise the tender wasn't even considered.


----------



## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Might that be considered to be (a) protectionist and (b) against the spirit of EU rules about fair competition - I thought we have to put stuff out to tender across the whole EU......but then again if you can be so precise & specific about a product that just happens to only be produced in your country.......

Who's looking after Number 1? Oh, they are....... Who's falling for it? Oh, we are.....

Andy.


----------



## DimitriUK (Jan 18, 2017)

AndyN01 said:


> If we hadn't starved our home grown manufacturing industries of investment and let them wither and die over the last 40 years would we be in this position now (regardless of Brexit)?
> 
> Andy.


Who starved the industry of investment? Did people participate in capital increases of rover to support the company? Did people buy rover instead of bmw?


----------



## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

Governments keep calling out for a global economy and how good it is. Unfortunately that is to find the cheapest place to make everything and that is not here.

As consumers we starved our own manufacturing.

Going back a long time now we also had many strikes in the steel industry and motor manufacturers that killed themselves regardless of the reasons for striking.


----------



## DimitriUK (Jan 18, 2017)

Andy from Sandy said:


> Governments keep calling out for a global economy and how good it is. Unfortunately that is to find the cheapest place to make everything and that is not here.
> 
> As consumers we starved our own manufacturing.
> 
> Going back a long time now we also had many strikes in the steel industry and motor manufacturers that killed themselves regardless of the reasons for striking.


Spot on very well said


----------



## Pauly.22 (Nov 15, 2009)

Gadgeteer said:


> Just my 2 pence worth, don't buy their products.


On the news I was surprised to see a lot of the staff leaving in cars that weren't hondas.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Toyota will be next followed by Nissan .....


----------



## TGi (Oct 15, 2012)

Wonder what Honda's sales will be like next year? doubt they will be good all things considering.
Just glad to see today they didn't blame Brexit would have been the easy option.
Globalisation is great till you realise the labour goes to the cheapest option like a economic game of musical chairs, still think the worst this the "west" has done is send all the manufacturing to china.


----------



## Gadgeteer (Feb 15, 2014)

Pauly.22 said:


> On the news I was surprised to see a lot of the staff leaving in cars that weren't hondas.


Insider information. Did they know


----------



## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

And, IMHO, the reason we're not all riding about on Aerial's, BSA's Royal Endfield's, Velocette's etc and not driving Alvis' Austin's, Daimler's, Jensen's, MG's, Morris's, Rover's, Triumph's etc.etc is because they were, in general, unreliable poor quality rubbish with a quality control that was non existent. We've all heard the jokes about "Friday afternoon" cars.

So "we" voted with our pay packets and bought German and Japanese because "we" were fed up of mending things every 5 minutes.

I loved my Mini's but I believe that every single one was sold at a loss? So between abysmal management, an indifferent & "difficult" workforce and political shenanigans our mass manufacturing slipped into the abyss.

A few decades ago who would have ever thought that Rolls Royce & Bentley would be anything other than British owned?

And yet most F1 teams are based here, we lead the world in aerospace and innovation and the great bastion of car making - Morgan - is alive and well.

Strange isn't it?

Andy.


----------



## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

AndyN01 said:


> And, IMHO, the reason we're not all riding about on Aerial's, BSA's Royal Endfield's, Velocette's etc and not driving Alvis' Austin's, Daimler's, Jensen's, MG's, Morris's, Rover's, Triumph's etc.etc is because they were, in general, unreliable poor quality rubbish with a quality control that was non existent.


Unfortunately, the "it's British, therefore it's crap" attitude is very often well wide of the mark. Odd that you didn't mention British built Hillmans, Fords or Vauxhalls in your muddle headed diatribe (if anything, percieved by the anti-British as no more reliable than those you did mention!)

I've run British built cars all my motoring life (which began in 1979), and the ones I have had experience of have been generally reliable (and several have been run to over 100k miles, with very few unexpected issues). None of them has ever let me down at the roadside, and any repair bills that I have had have been miniscule compared to the ones I was hearing about relating to other supposedly ultra reliable brands!

It is the anti-British attitude that is, in general, "poor quality rubbish".

If the British people had any degree of intelligence they would understand why it is beneficial to buy British made, but unfortunately most british people don't seem to have any intelligence and would rather buy something German (and when it does let them down at the side of the road, or land them with a massive repair bill, they try to pretend 'it's just one of those things' and carry on in their misplaced belief that it's German so must be hyper reliable. Either that or they buy foreign made Fords or Vauxhalls in the misplaced belief that they are 'British' brands.

If the British people valued the benefits of supporting their own, and Honda had a 50% share of the UK market (as indeed British Leyland once had), they might not be shutting Swindon now.

As for blaming Brexit, well that's just risible - and Honda themselves have made clear that that Britains EU exit was not the reason, although the current shambles over Theresa Mays 'Remainer' Brexit won't instill anyone with the confidence to stick it out.

Someone mentioned something about manufacturing being drawn out of the UK in the past by incentives in other EU countries - Don't forget that the Japanese manufacturers only came to the UK in the first place because Margaret Thatchers Government gave them significant financial incentives to build their factories here rather than in France or Spain 

Car manufacturing still remains massively over capacity, and the move to all electric powered cars, together with the increasing longevity of the cars themselves is only going to put further pressure on the manufacturers (my own cars are 13 and 16 years old respectively - not all that long ago, you would have struggled to get anything other than a Volvo much past 10 years!


----------



## transtek (Mar 2, 2007)

It would have been nice for the government to have at least offered incentives for Honda to stay, for example, to produce their new line of electric cars coming out over the next 1-2 years, especially given the quality of tech and e-tech in the UK and the huge potential market in the UK for such cars.


----------



## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Justin Tomlinson, the local councillor/MP, was on TV the night it was announced. When the suggestion about government action was made, he just turned into an unappointed spokesman for Honda making a press release on behalf of Honda. It was painful to watch. Swindon's council are useless at the best of times, so don't expect them to be making great representations in government.

Interesting to see Ian Howells speech on not investing in Swindon https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47287386

Less than 6 months ago he was telling a different story (forgive the god awful local rag's terrible website and banners) https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk...das-commitment-to-keep-production-in-swindon/


----------



## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

Mugwump said:


> Unfortunately, the "it's British, therefore it's crap" attitude is very often well wide of the mark. Odd that you didn't mention British built Hillmans, Fords or Vauxhalls in your muddle headed diatribe (if anything, percieved by the anti-British as no more reliable than those you did mention!)
> 
> I've run British built cars all my motoring life (which began in 1979), and the ones I have had experience of have been generally reliable (and several have been run to over 100k miles, with very few unexpected issues). None of them has ever let me down at the roadside, and any repair bills that I have had have been miniscule compared to the ones I was hearing about relating to other supposedly ultra reliable brands!
> 
> ...


Just for your "quality" statement, visit Birmingham Motorbike museum, and check what bikes have a dripping tray under them!
I did my apprentice ship in the 70's and the amount of times we couldn't get parts because of strikes was just a joke. 
A PDI was 9 working hours on a Rover, Toyota allowed 1 hour, and you had still time left. 
We rebuild carburettors, steering boxes, and changed seals during the PDI at the Rovers.
They build a classic car, but quality controls where miles behind.

Honda will never say if Brexit had anything to do with it, no point to make a political stir.
But the reason why they set up the British manufacturing would have been made useless with one swipe, called Brexit.
We will see what it brings, but the likes as Sony and Panasonic have moved their head office to the Netherlands because of the insecurity around Brexit.
The Dutch have another 250 requests from British companies applying to move to the Netherlands.
I am not against Brexit, not bothered either way, but could see this coming miles away.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Honda were never here because we built the best cars, they were here just so they could get around the importation rules, Toyota and Nissan are exactly the same. Now the EU have removed the import duty expect Nissan and Toyota to do the same.

Honda has been producing less and less in Swindon, the jazz, crv and accord all being moved back to japan and civic sales are nothing like they were 5 years ago.

At least Honda are looking after there own by moving production back to there own country, in the uk we would do the opposite and support someone else’s economy.


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

MugWump 

I've run British built cars all my motoring life (which began in 1979), and the ones I have had experience of have been generally reliable (and several have been run to over 100k miles, with very few unexpected issues). None of them has ever let me down at the roadside, and any repair bills that I have had have been miniscule compared to the ones I was hearing about relating to other supposedly ultra reliable brands! 

It is the anti-British attitude that is, in general, "poor quality rubbish". 

Try telling me that with a father and uncle that had two that kept breaking down when I was a young kid, I worked on cars servicing my apprenticeship as auto electrician and doing mechanical repairs as well. This was in the 80's and there were some very poor cars out there at the time, they may have been simpler to repair but build was shocking back in the day.
Just go on a tour of the mini factory and chat to some of the old guys that were on production plant years ago.
I know lots of newer cars not good as well, but Jag LR cars seem to have more than there fair share of troubles speaking to people that bought new over last few years as well.


----------



## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

In the good old days of british car manufacture, Rover/British Leyland in Swindon was at the end of the road where i grew up. Well it still is, but now BMW.

They had massive yards where they used to store the vehicles between assembly and painting. If it rained during the week, the cars were already rusting before they were painted! I know a few folk that worked there for many years and, yes, the friday afternoon car did exist! 

Honda pretty much saved Rovers behind in the 80's & 90's with the joint projects too, 200/Ballade, 400/Civic, 600/Accord, 800/Legend etc.


----------



## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

I started driving in 1979 too and experienced british cars and bikes for many years - they were generally made of good materials, but were unreliable because of multiple small faults in fit and finish.

As a family we ran BL cars and other British for years and it was a complete revalation when my dad bought a Nissan Bluebird around 1980 - fantastic fit, finish and equipment levels by comparison.

Before anyone tries to convince me that I am mistaken, I will put out a small sample of things i/we have personally witnessed and experienced from new british cars:

Austin maxi multiple gearbox problems and suspension failure. 

Rover SD1 chronic rust / terrible switchgear and electrics /random central locking. 

A new Rover Vitesse with so many faults that was rejected with the threat of legal action.

Mote than 1 Mini with subframe problems.

Red Robbo had a lot to answer for.


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

GleemSpray said:


> I started driving in 1979 too and experienced british cars and bikes for many years - they were generally made of good materials, but were unreliable because of multiple small faults in fit and finish.
> 
> As a family we ran BL cars and other British for years and it was a complete revalation when my dad bought a Nissan Bluebird around 1980 - fantastic fit, finish and equipment levels by comparison.
> 
> ...


ah yes the Maxi , split windscreen by any chance and overheating? , ours was Rust orange colour:lol:


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Hondas decision makes sound commercial sense:

1. A plant that has been running under capacity for many years

2. Demand for its products in Europe declining whilst steady or rising elsewhere in the world

3. A Japan / EU trade deal that will see the gradual removal of import tariffs on goods bought n from Japan

If you were a business operating a factory under capacity where that capacity can be taken up by other plants in markets where there is actually demand for your products what would you do?


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Ah the austin maxi, dad had 3 of them, a sick green colour - which he cleanly removed the boot from by backing out of a garage with a nylon washing line being left out and the boot up, it took it straight off its hinges, still it got taped down and went to Poland the next day and was fixed on its return.

The unions have destroyed the UK car industry (the government must take responsibility for the aerospace side and the shipbuilding) but logistically building cars in the UK then exporting them doesn't make financial sense either, with a central hub (usually germany) everything can be moved with less fuss. 

Vauxhall will go next, there is no point building the Astra in liverpool, PSA have stacks of capacity and they are going to look aft themselves, the production guys salaries must be huge, i bet they are on near on 50/60k per year, Landrover going back 20 years were near enough 45k and the cleaners at Dagenham were well into the 30's

As a nation we love to put ourselves down usually through the press, a british car we will pick faults with but a german car, nothing is mentioned. Could you imagine the US buying a new war ship or aircraft from germany or the EU ?


----------



## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

Derekh929 said:


> ah yes the Maxi , split windscreen by any chance and overheating? , ours was Rust orange colour


Oh yes, for some reaaon known only to my father, we had several of them (i think he liked the large boot).

Regrettably, i did some of my learning to drive in a Fawn Brown ( diarrhea) coloured one and had the gearlever go limp and detach on more than one occasion when trying to select reverse.

One of these times was in the Porlock hills in Devon, on a family holiday, because my Dad thought it would be a great place to learn hill starts.

Best days of our lives... etc, etc.

They dont build 'em like that anymore...


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

GleemSpray said:


> Oh yes, for some reaaon known only to my father, we had several of them (i think he liked the large boot).
> 
> Regrettably, i did some of my learning to drive in a Fawn Brown ( diarrhea) coloured one and had the gearlever go limp and detach on more than one occasion when trying to select reverse.
> 
> ...


Fawn Brown:, that was worse than rust orange lol: I have to ask if you had the Chocolate Brown bathroom suite in the house ? or the Avocado one?:lol:

I feel your pain loud and clear

Kids would ask for counselling having to go to school in a car like that know


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Dads other two were Perkins Blue and russet brown.


----------



## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

Derekh929 said:


> Fawn Brown:, that was worse than rust orange lol: I have to ask if you had the Chocolate Brown bathroom suite in the house ? or the Avocado one?:lol:
> 
> I feel your pain loud and clear
> 
> Kids would ask for counselling having to go to school in a car like that know


You might have a point Derek.

Perhaps it has left me permanently scarred.

Maybe, just maybe, learning to drive in a s**t brown coloured car is what subconsciously got me into Detailing and the irrational need to be constantly cleaning the car .....:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

Caledoniandream said:


> We will see what it brings, but the likes as Sony and Panasonic have moved their head office to the Netherlands because of the insecurity around Brexit.
> The Dutch have another 250 requests from British companies applying to move to the Netherlands.
> I am not against Brexit, not bothered either way, but could see this coming miles away.


The problem is largely because we are not being given Brexit.

The so-called deal which Parliament don't like isn't going to give us Brexit - it will merely see the UK no longer a member of the EU, but still tied firmly to the EU trade protocols, and therefore leaving the UK entirely unable to seek new independent trade agreements with third countries. Those trade deals were the single most important reason for Brexit, but the muddle headed remainers in Government and industry have worked tirelessly to thwart Brexit, and this is the result - a situation which is detrimental to every aspect of British business.

That is why so many firms are now wanting to relocate - to stay in the UK will throttle so many businesses under the proposed arrangement.

It is so sad - the future did look very bright and full of hope, but thanks to the remainers who won't accept democracy unless it coincides with their own view, the future now looks unutterably grim 

I don't expect anyone here to agree (or even comprehend) - I am afraid it is brutally apparent that remainers have only a very shallow knowledge and understanding of the EU.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Mugwump said:


> The problem is largely because we are not being given Brexit.
> 
> The so-called deal which Parliament don't like isn't going to give us Brexit - it will merely see the UK no longer a member of the EU, but still tied firmly to the EU trade protocols, and therefore leaving the UK entirely unable to seek new independent trade agreements with third countries. Those trade deals were the single most important reason for Brexit, but the muddle headed remainers in Government and industry have worked tirelessly to thwart Brexit, and this is the result - a situation which is detrimental to every aspect of British business.
> 
> ...


That post isn't condescending at all.


----------



## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Mugwump said:


> The problem is largely etc.....


----------



## AnthonyUK (Jul 25, 2018)

Kerr said:


> That post isn't condescending at all.


Or makes any sense. Companies are leaving because they want an EU presence. 
Dead or no deal has no effect on the outcome.


----------



## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Don't bite, that's 100% trolling right there. :thumb:


----------



## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

Mugwump's post may or may not make sense or be correct but one thing is for sure MPs have hijacked the Brexit process for their own means.

Originally this was not going to be the case but as ever the self servers demanded a final say. They can never actually agree on anything so every piece of legislation or decision is watered down and thoroughly compromised.

I call it point scoring like cricketers score runs, footballers score goals, MPs score points. That is their whole mandate for being in Parliament. IMHO.

My first car was a 1973 Mini van. The only thing that went wrong with that was a water pump. I can't remember how many miles I did in it.

I certainly remember the old Vauxhall rust buckets. It took years for that stigma to fade.

Datsun made some very fast little cars back then but the interiors used to fall apart. I did my first displayed ton in my then girlfriends dad's Datsun.


----------



## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

The endearing joy(?) of "Brexit" is that a worrying number of the population thought / think it should be as easy as cancelling a Direct Debit.

The question itself was always going to be as complex as : "_Do you want a forced divorce from our 40 year marriage ? from me, the kids, the property, the large business we run together, along with the pensions and financials ?_"

_" Please answer Yes / No and, if the answer is Yes, feel free to ring my solicitors every week for two years and ask why we are still arguing over details ................._ "

Its this + the self-serving politicians (from all sides) as already pointed out + The EU naturally wanting to hold on to what it already has + companies using "Brexit" as a catch-all excuse.

Was never going to be as hoped for / intended.

David Cameron is entirely to blame for this mess


----------



## AnthonyUK (Jul 25, 2018)

Andy from Sandy said:


> Mugwump's post may or may not make sense or be correct but one thing is for sure MPs have hijacked the Brexit process for their own means.


...And has nothing to do with this topic. Brexit has been done to death and the other threads closed so I would stick to the points in question.


----------



## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Indeed. On the subject of rust, it wasn't just the Rovers and Vauxhalls.

My first car was a 1980 Honda Accord EX. My dad bought it when it was a couple of years old. I bought it off him (for peanuts) in 1987 on the basis i learned about cars and treated all the rust in on it (it was riddled). I sat it my grandad's garage for 2 or 3 months and i went there every night grinding, filling, sanding and painting. Any structural stuff had been dealt with by the MOT. Got it looking good and enjoyed it for another 2 years at which point there wasn't a structural part that handn't rusted away. They ran out of room listing it on the MOT failure sheet! lol.

This was a peril of early Japanese cars, everyone always said it was down to importing and the days spent on boats in salty sea air that caused it, but i don't know how true that is. Imagine scrapping a 9 year old car now due to rust.


----------



## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

Shiny said:


> Indeed. On the subject of rust, it wasn't just the Rovers and Vauxhalls.
> 
> My first car was a 1980 Honda Accord EX. My dad bought it when it was a couple of years old. I bought it off him (for peanuts) in 1987 on the basis i learned about cars and treated all the rust in on it .


I will see your 1980 Honda Accord and raise you a very second-hand Fiat Mirafiori purchased circa 1980 which, basically, crumbled week by week... 

Nice sporty motor to drive whilst it was alive tho - twin cam engine as i recall


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Fiat Mirafiori :lol: I bought one before I could drive to do up and sell that was in the early 80's it rusted just looking at it:doublesho, it was rust orange colour as well similar to the maxi


----------



## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Lol, they were terrible for rust. My mate had an X1/9 way back then, awesome fun, but a complete rust bucket. Not many Fiats of the day made it past the 80's.


----------



## mar00 (Jun 24, 2018)

Shiny said:


> Lol, they were terrible for rust. My mate had an X1/9 way back then, awesome fun, but a complete rust bucket. Not many Fiats of the day made it past the 80's.


my mate had a X1/9 too he jacked it up with doors open and it bent the chassis


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

mar00 said:


> my mate had a X1/9 too he jacked it up with doors open and it bent the chassis


Sounds about right:lol:


----------



## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

mar00 said:


> my mate had a X1/9 too he jacked it up with doors open and it bent the chassis


:lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## AnthonyUK (Jul 25, 2018)

My dad worked at a BL dealership. A brand new allergro arrived with a flat tyre an on jacking it up the rear window fell out as the chassis flexed and found it happened to all of them.


----------



## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

AnthonyUK said:


> My dad worked at a BL dealership. A brand new allergro arrived with a flat tyre an on jacking it up the rear window fell out as the chassis flexed and found it happened to all of them.


They had a pretty unique safety feature though. If a wheel falls off, Allegros.... :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed:


----------



## AnthonyUK (Jul 25, 2018)

Shiny said:


> They had a pretty unique safety feature though. If a wheel falls off, Allegros.... :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed:


Boom, boom.

Ironically, the best car BL made was Honda based.


----------



## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Shiny said:


> They had a pretty unique safety feature though. If a wheel falls off, Allegros.... :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed:


Used to love my Maxi! Had to start it with 2 screwdrivers, 1in the ignition and 1 to short the starter motor!!


----------



## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

Mugwump said:


> The problem is largely because we are not being given Brexit.
> 
> The so-called deal which Parliament don't like isn't going to give us Brexit - it will merely see the UK no longer a member of the EU, but still tied firmly to the EU trade protocols, and therefore leaving the UK entirely unable to seek new independent trade agreements with third countries. Those trade deals were the single most important reason for Brexit, but the muddle headed remainers in Government and industry have worked tirelessly to thwart Brexit, and this is the result - a situation which is detrimental to every aspect of British business.
> 
> ...


The problem is largely that the Brexiteers didn't and don't have a plan.
Fail to plan, plan to fail! 
I am not against Brexit, but being business wise involved with the EU since the 80's, I could see that this leaving plan didn't exists, or not thought through.
Promising people billions of pounds on saving, but not highlighting the risks was a poor policy, what is now biting them in the back.
Our trucks have spend weeks of waiting on borders of countries not in the EU, just to get clearance.
The millions of guarantees for VAT, and the difficulty to claim costs back, are for the Transport industry a hard price to pay.
The delay, especially in the beginning will be massive as our HMRC are understaffed to clear loads, and so are our neighbouring countries. 
We haven't cleared this amount of paperwork since the 90's 
Manufacturers will pull their hair out waiting on products, or waiting to get their products to the customer in the EU.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Without trying to drag this into a brexit thread as its not why Honda are leaving, the government didn't expect to lose the vote.


----------



## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

SteveTDCi said:


> Without trying to drag this into a brexit thread as its not why Honda are leaving, the government didn't expect to lose the vote.


I think post #2 is spot on.


----------



## shycho (Sep 7, 2010)

Caledoniandream said:


> The problem is largely that the Brexiteers didn't and don't have a plan.
> Fail to plan, plan to fail!
> I am not against Brexit, but being business wise involved with the EU since the 80's, I could see that this leaving plan didn't exists, or not thought through.
> Promising people billions of pounds on saving, but not highlighting the risks was a poor policy, what is now biting them in the back.
> ...


Why not roll it back a little further and point out that remainers didn't have a plan to keep us in the EU?

There are only so many times you can call a man racist for pointing out a bloated technocratic centralised partial-European union is not in the long term national interest, before he eventually calls bull**** on the slander.

Perhaps if those in positions of power who so desperately wanted to keep us in the union, spent more time preaching the merits of it and less time calling those with differing opinions thick/racist/gammon/extermists etc, we wouldn't have been in this trouble in the first place.

Meanwhile I see Roll royce just won a contract to develop engines for Emirates at it's Derby factory, but you won't here about that in the news because it lessens the value of Project Fear v5.0.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Lets keep it about Honda and not Brexit :thumb:


----------



## DimitriUK (Jan 18, 2017)

Caledoniandream said:


> The problem is largely that the Brexiteers didn't and don't have a plan.


Well I think we need to keep to the facts, Honda stated that this has nothing to do with brexit, keep in mind that they are departing from Turkey also.

You are missing the big picture, the whole point of brexit was NOT to have a plan.

How else you were going to feed empty words like "taking back control" to the people that next were going to pick up the plan, read it and realize that the plan is leaking left right and center.


----------



## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Clutching at straws methinks, but always worth a try https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk...nites-to-persuade-honda-to-invest-in-swindon/


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Shiny said:


> Clutching at straws methinks, but always worth a try https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk...nites-to-persuade-honda-to-invest-in-swindon/


Yep, its been on the slow down for years, now the unions realise the gravy train is departing they are worried. I'm sure there are some very good people who work there but i bet the factories in Japan have a better work effic and less trade union clout.


----------



## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

shycho said:


> Why not roll it back a little further and point out that remainers didn't have a plan to keep us in the EU?
> 
> There are only so many times you can call a man racist for pointing out a bloated technocratic centralised partial-European union is not in the long term national interest, before he eventually calls bull**** on the slander.
> 
> ...


Rolls Royce will create 35 jobs?


----------



## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

This had nothing to do with Brexit- Honda is closing their plant in Turkey as well. They are taking manufacturing back to Japan, now they had a trade deal what need do they have for production inside Europe.

I was told a long time ago that the plant in Swindon was actually built with equipment that had already done its bit in Japan- IE built on a shoestring for political reasons.

As I have said before, this is just the tip of the iceberg for car manufacturers, it will be bedlam in the coming years. Ford Europe will probably tie up with VAG if they want to continue doing anything besides selling the F150 in America, and Vauxhall/GM are already in talks with PSA to build from a common platform.

In a few decades my guess is a lot of car makers will exist in name only if at all.

Diesel engines are polluting unless they have an entire raft of ancillary equipment that petrol engines do not need. They are more costly to run and service and repair (DPF, EGR, add blue- you name it). I bet the majority of owners do not even do 15,000 miles per year so the idea they are saving money on fuel is erroneous to begin with.


----------



## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

Oh, and about all the businesses leaving London because of the dreaded B-word.

Someone better inform Apple and Google of the fact London is supposed to be dying because both of them are spending mega-fortunes to setup new offices there. Google, in particular have plans underway to spend serious money to establish their regional office this side of the pond. If the UK is apparently so cucked by leaving the EU somehow Google apparently missed that memo.


----------



## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I cannot vouch for the validity or origin of this material. Perhaps those of a political or legal leaning can shed some light.

A bit disturbing some of this.

https://2mbg6fgb1kl380gtk22pbxgw-wp...al-Declaration-analysis-for-BrexitCentral.pdf


----------



## AnthonyUK (Jul 25, 2018)

ollienoclue said:


> I cannot vouch for the validity or origin of this material. Perhaps those of a political or legal leaning can shed some light.
> 
> A bit disturbing some of this.
> 
> https://2mbg6fgb1kl380gtk22pbxgw-wp...al-Declaration-analysis-for-BrexitCentral.pdf


I wouldn't trust that document too much given the source.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/brexitcentral/


----------



## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

ollienoclue said:


> I cannot vouch for the validity or origin of this material. Perhaps those of a political or legal leaning can shed some light.
> 
> A bit disturbing some of this.
> 
> https://2mbg6fgb1kl380gtk22pbxgw-wp...al-Declaration-analysis-for-BrexitCentral.pdf


Faker than Donald's hair.

Emotional language + poor document formatting.

"An anonymous Civil Servant" could legitimately be anyone who works in a local tax office or job centre....

Sent from my P027 using Tapatalk


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

That's Infiniti pulling out of the European market now. 

They will stop production in the UK.


----------



## Philb1965 (Jun 29, 2010)

Infinity in the uk must have been heavily loss making, probably the same for the rest of Europe. Hardly ever see one on the road.


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Kerr said:


> That's Infiniti pulling out of the European market now.
> 
> They will stop production in the UK.


No real surprise there only sold a pathetic 750 cars last year, after heavy investment, just lets you see they had no idea of uk market, the word due diligence comes to mind


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

The brand just never took off here or Europe by the sounds of it.

I like some of their cars and used they look like good value.


----------



## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Kerr said:


> The brand just never took off here or Europe by the sounds of it.
> 
> I like some of their cars and used they look like good value.


really?????

i was looking at the Q50 as a possible taxi alternative after seeing one as a taxi, they hold money quite well from what i saw


----------

