# Help me put on some clean weight



## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

I seem to have plateaued (sp) at 77kg and it seems no matter what I eat I can't gain any more.

Heres a typical days food,

Breakfast is a pint of milk and porrige (1 cup).

Morning tea is p/butter on toast (2 slices of grain bread) & a protien shake.

Normally lunch is either left overs from dinner, 5 eggs scrambled on 2 slices of grain bread, double turkey Subway wrap with no sauces or beans on toast.

Afternoon tea is another cup of porrige.

pre-workout is a banana and pre-workout drink (Jack3d).

And dinner is straight after a workout, usually Chicken, mince or steak with wholemeal pasta, brown rice or veggies and Kumara (a type of sweet potato).

Then before bed is either a protien shake with milk or cottoge cheese and a spoon of p/butter.

Heres a break down of it all:


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2010)

I can't offer any advice, since I'm only about 3 months into my own fatloss/muscle gain programme. 
However, what sort of exercise are you doing? Going from the diet, I guess it's weight training.
Also, how long have you been on the above diet?


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## somouk (Jun 14, 2006)

I can't offer any help but what website have you used to create the graph?


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## Magic Detail (Jul 25, 2010)

Agreed - what website is that?

Also, have you worked out how many calories you should consume? What's your current weight etc.. I ask because as you'll know, you need to consume more calories than you excel. 3700 as you have there is quite alot, that's not much more than I need - I'm 6'4 and 16st though! I can easily burn off 400 or more calories in an hour long gym session, so your training could be what's taking you under your required calorie goal.

If you get the diet right that's more than half the battle, and train with heavy weights but low reps.


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## tonyflow (Mar 6, 2006)

Agree with above - work out your BMR, then factor in calories used for whatever exercises you do and then work your diet around that. You may be surpised what your cal need is when you factor in exercise etc....


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

The website is www.fitday.com :thumb:

I just do weights, I've cut out the cardio for now to help with the gain.

My over all goal is to get to 90kg and I'm 176cm tall.

How do I workout my BMR?


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## DCR (Sep 12, 2008)

IMO you arent eating enough cals mate, and nearly half of that is from a shake. Shake should be supplemental.

You could pack in way more carbs at lunchtime for sure. Your morning and afternoon snacks could be say rice/pasta and chicken, and your breakfast could have more protein in it i.e. throw a couple of hard boiled eggs in there

Gaining like this is not easy. It takes commitment. Even when you dont want to eat, you get the food down you.

IMO its pretty hard to gain "clean" i.e. just muscle

ive gone from 14 to 16.4 stone (granted some of that is "assisted"), but you still need the food to underpin that growth, and i could prob lose around 3/4 of that in fat. But i view that as a necessary evil, plus you can eat what you like while bulking up. Its easy enough to lose afterwards.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Thanks DCR,

I know some of the gains will be fat (I've got the love handles to prove it :lol, just trying not to go down the bad food route as I just had a week away with work eating nothing but [email protected] and felt like sh** for it.

So a good start would be to swap the morning shake and toast for more pasta, rice, chicken or tuna.

And same for afternoon one too, I did think the afternoon porrige would be a good chunk of carbs.


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## tonyflow (Mar 6, 2006)

The best way is to count calories and see at what point you start to gain/lose - howver, there are formulas which will give rough ideas - see http://www.shapefit.com/basal-metabolic-rate.html

Agree with above, supps are just that - they should supp your diet to get the nutrient split you require - a 3rd of your cals from supps isnt the best method (I am not sure if your body can process the "hit" you will get from it?)

Maybe throw in a 5 egg omelette for brekkie, have wholemeal toast with quark or cottage cheese or peanut butter as mid morning snack, large chicken breast and veg for lunch (baked pot or such liek for carbs), with some kind of oil for EFA's

another mid afternoon snack with split of carbs - say tuna and brown rice or wholemeal bread..

Dinner would be more meat and some veg (dropping carbs as day goes on) - say steak or such like with some broccolli/cauli

then supper of wholemeal toast and quark/cottage cheese

Add protein shakes as you require to get your macros up high enough (I would go for a low carb "pure" proein shake rather than mass gainer).

I am currently the other way - after coming off a bulk trying to drop fat levels (always have been a bit too high at 15%)... I personally think gaining some element of fat is a necessary evil when bulking - what we hope is that when we drop the fat level back down, we can hold on to the clean mass.....

Looking forward to January though, when I can go on another bulking cycle (something about stuffing your face that i LOVE  )


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2010)

Alex L said:


> I seem to have plateaued (sp) at 77kg and it seems no matter what I eat I can't gain any more.





Alex L said:


> My over all goal is to get to 90kg and I'm 176cm tall.


I've read that 1kg of bodyweight for each cm you are above 1m is a good rule of thumb to aim for. I can't but help think that 90kg (14st2oz) at 1m76cm (5'9") is perhaps too big and without the lean muscle mass, you'll just end up looking fat.
IIRC, you are not new to training, so you've probably used up all your "newbie gains" some time ago. If what I have read is correct, then just concentrate on getting stronger, mainly with compound free-weight exercises, and your size should go up. It will probably be slow progres though since most people seem to agree that around 2.5kg of lean muscle mass a year is a realistic goal (after the newbie gain stage).

FWIW, I've been avidly reading the StrongLifts website and I'm currently 6 weeks into the beginner 5x5 programme.


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## Abz (Feb 13, 2007)

Guess it depends on if you want to gain clean, lean muscle or just try to put on weight, fat along with muscle and then try to cut at a later stage

Is your dinner immediatley after training, like before leaving the gym or getting showered? If not I would have a protein shake at this point and then have your dinner as normal. 

I would also forget about the bread, even if it is the wholewheat/grain kind as there are other things you can have with more calorific value like brown rice/pasta with chicken or tuna. Same with the subway wrap - lots of carbs and not a lot of protein. Same again with beans on toast, not a great deal of protein. 

If you want to be as clean as you can, only use 1 or 2 whole eggs in the omelette and have 5 egg whites - you get some of the good fat from the yolk and lots of protein from the whites. Have a handful of cashews instead of the bread after your omelette, good fat, carbs and more calories.

You could add a scoop of protein to your morning porridge as you don't have that much protein in this meal either, you can add a bit of honey too if you like it. Protein is very important in every meal as your body needs this to repair muscle.

Cottage cheese is ace as a night time snack, especially with a little peanut butter but you could add another scoop of protein in there as well, which will again up your calories but not mean having to eat an extra meal.


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## SubtleAggressiv (Jul 17, 2010)

Alex L said:


> I seem to have plateaued (sp) at 77kg and it seems no matter what I eat I can't gain any more.
> 
> Heres a typical days food,
> 
> ...


*Is the protein shake you take a mass gainer or just pure whey?*

*Im just trying to get an idea of your nutrition programme - Are your meals spaced out every 3 hours?

Everything Ive put in bold is just a suggestion. *


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## TheGooner84 (Jun 29, 2010)

Not the best advise but i was told i was underweight when i went for RAF medical. doctor advised me to "eat more curries and drink more beer". took me 2 years to put the 2 stone on to get me up to the healthy weight


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## ash888 (Apr 29, 2010)

all above advise is good with regards to what kind of food to consume.

if your after supplements to help, then gaspari real mass is really good but not great value for money.
im currently using boditronics mass attack evo, which is a lot better value for money and a its not just calories as this supplement contains oats and better source of carbs than most mass gainers.

boditronics have a new mass attack heavyweight for hard gainers which looks even better.

it will take a while, but once you find what works for your body then stick to it.


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## DPN (Jan 7, 2006)

http://stronglifts.com/how-to-gain-weight-without-gaining-fat/


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Thanks guys,

Going ok so far, upto 80.5kg at the moment, did get upto 82 kg but that was with 3 weeks off training due to injury, but dropped back down once I started training again.



SubtleAggressiv said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Alex L
> I seem to have plateaued (sp) at 77kg and it seems no matter what I eat I can't gain any more.
> 
> ...


Thats the sort of thing I was looking for thank you :thumb:

To answer the bold:

So change my pint of milk with breakfast to a shake with milk at breakfast.

Most of my lunches lately have all been left overs with is basically things like chicken and wholemeal pasta, chilli and brown rice, etc. just meals along those lines.

I've already swapped the porrige for a shake as I was getting very sleepy after a big feed in the hoe afternoons lol.

Meal times for me are:

6:30 breakfast.
10am morning tea
12:30 lunch
3pm afternoon tea
finish work at 5pm then the gym by 5:30.
6:30-7pm for dinner, straight from the gym (i live 2 minutes away, so as soon as I finish I'm at home eating).
9pm for CC before bed.

The jack3d I use for 3-4 weeks beore it runs out, then leave for a month as the guy I buy from suggested thats the best way.

For shakes I use either http://www.punchsupplements.co.nz/supplements/cytosport-muscle-milk.html

or Gaspari Real-mass when they don't have the MM in (the joys of living in NZ is unreliable suppliers).

Meals are spaced as above.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

ash888 said:


> all above advise is good with regards to what kind of food to consume.
> 
> if your after supplements to help, then gaspari real mass is really good but not great value for money.
> im currently using boditronics mass attack evo, which is a lot better value for money and a its not just calories as this supplement contains oats and better source of carbs than most mass gainers.
> ...


I'm currently using the Real Mass, I've used it several times before and really like it, but agree it's expensive (even more so over here).

I've tried all sorts of shakes and alot taste the same which makes me think they are, just under different names lol.

Tried Mutant mass but that wasn't anything special.

The best for me so far has been the Cytosport Muscle Milk and by far the best Choc flavour of all the ones I've tried.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

TheGooner84 said:


> Not the best advise but i was told i was underweight when i went for RAF medical. doctor advised me to "eat more curries and drink more beer". took me 2 years to put the 2 stone on to get me up to the healthy weight


I tried that, spent a 8 years working nights and eating cakes on the back of trailers, got me from 68 kgs at 23, upto 80kgs at 28 lol.

Then got here and started training and lost it all


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Abz said:


> Guess it depends on if you want to gain clean, lean muscle or just try to put on weight, fat along with muscle and then try to cut at a later stage
> 
> Is your dinner immediatley after training, like before leaving the gym or getting showered? If not I would have a protein shake at this point and then have your dinner as normal.
> 
> ...


Cool thanks,

Unfortunatly I don't like nuts but do force 50g of Almonds in every day for my good fats. aswell as the PB with the CC.

Dinner normally is straight after the gym, and living 2 minutes away makes this easier, though I have started having a shake stright away, then leaving it half an hour till I have dinner.


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## SubtleAggressiv (Jul 17, 2010)

Alex L said:


> Thanks guys,
> 
> Thats the sort of thing I was looking for thank you :thumb:
> 
> ...


I found the nutritional values for Gaspari Real-mass and it does look good.
See here -->








The only problem I can see is that in their recommended serving of 3 scoops with milk its contains 66g of protein and 102g of Carbs (48g of that is sugar!). I always believed that the body can only absorb so many nutrients in one go, so taking more than 40-45g of protein at a time is just a waste and your body will just **** or poo out the rest.

I havent used every single weight gainer or whey protein supplement on the market but I have enough experience with training to know that there are better ones than the Gaspari out there imo. My two absolute favourites and the best Ive used so far is Mass-Tech (made by Muscletech. See here--> http://www.muscletech.com/products/masstech/index.shtml ) and Mass Fury (see here --> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MUSCLE-FURY-M...auty_Vitamins_Supplements&hash=item2558f52d55 )

If you can get these in NZ then Id personally recommend it but if not then carry on the best you can :thumb:
The Mass-Tech is expensive which is why I dont buy this regularly. Normally priced at £45 per 2.27kg tub but GNC regularly have promotions on this product, the last one being buy 2 get 1 free. Mass Fury however is only £45 for a 4kg tub (it looks massive) and offers 42g protein and 45g carbs of which 2.9g is sugar. This is much more in keeping with what the body can absorb at a given time and the carbs are from cooked oatmeal rather than sugars.

I know you want to put on clean weight but it may be easier and quicker to eat more and get a few kilos above your desired weight and then start cutting. This can sometimes work out quicker than clean bulking.

I hope this helps. 

p.s I have only ever purchased the Mass Fury from my gym @ £45. That link (not mine) is for demontration purposes and I dont know if the seller is trustworthy.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Yeah, I was recommended half the scoops because of the sugar.

And because you can't mix 3 in a shaker.

Although if you've ever tried mixing the recommended 4 scoops (1000 cals) of Mutant Mass it's damn near impossible lol.

I'm not to concerned about fat gain at the moment, just don't want all my gains to be fat, then cut back down to where I am.

I've changed my workouts to 5x5s now and sort of following the one in this thread http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=892878

I don't expect to get the same outcome thanks to poop genetics (yay for lazy parents lol)


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## SubtleAggressiv (Jul 17, 2010)

Alex L said:


> Yeah, I was recommended half the scoops because of the sugar.
> 
> And because you can't mix 3 in a shaker.
> 
> ...


Dont worry about genetics mate I know us 'hardgainers' dont put on mass as easily as many people, esp from certain other races that Ive noticed but nothing is impossible. 
I used to consider myself a 'hard gainer' and it wasnt until I read somebodys quote on the bodybuilding.com website which made me realise that it isnt because of my genetics but only because Im an undereater. I dont use that term hardgainer anymore, it doesnt exist to me 

As long as you train hard and eat well you dont have to worry about putting on more fat than muscle.

If you can, keep us updated on how your progressing. All the best :thumb:


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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

Alex L said:


> The best for me so far has been the Cytosport Muscle Milk and by far the best Choc flavour of all the ones I've tried.


Alright Alex:wave:
+1 on the Muscle Milk - the best tasting shake I've tried & good results too.
Have you tried the mint choc?..it's like a after eight in a shake.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Chris_VRS said:


> Alright Alex:wave:
> +1 on the Muscle Milk - the best tasting shake I've tried & good results too.
> Have you tried the mint choc?..it's like a after eight in a shake.


Hows it going? 

Yep it's the first protien I've notice decent gains on, we only seem to get Choc and Vanilla 

I'll have to hit the guy up about mint choc


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