# Setting Up A Garage



## zrjace (Jan 31, 2008)

Right ,

Basically ive been doing work on french cars for a while now.And hope to get my own unit in the next few weeks.Not something massive but big enough to work on two cars 

I am not a qualified mechanic but i can do .Engine conversions,clutches etc 

And i were just wondering to set up a business in this trade do you have to be qualified? And i know i would need PL cover etc

Thanks


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## Elliott19864 (May 11, 2008)

You don't need qualifications as such, but experience REALLLY COUNTS.

When I had my garage It was just nice to have somewhere to work on our own cars and then the odd job to help pay the bills.

But it is very hard to jump straight into opening a garage.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

I wouldn't touch you with a barge pole if you had no qualifications, I'll be suprised if the PL insurance will covoer you too tbh.


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## Maxtor (Feb 23, 2007)

zrjace said:


> Right ,
> 
> Basically ive been doing work on french cars for a while now.And hope to get my own unit in the next few weeks.Not something massive but big enough to work on two cars
> 
> ...


I think you might struggle in this day and age chap. A lot of the cars these days require much more than just a spanner to sort them out.

I work closely with a lot of garages and they pass on specialist work to each other. Just the other day I was talking to a Mech about the fuel pumps and the codes they need to talk to the ECU's etc...

Unless you want to spend an arm and a leg on equipment and go on a number of courses, I would perhaps re-think what you want to do.

If you do go for it, best of luck.:thumb:

Maxtor..


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## zrjace (Jan 31, 2008)

Maxtor said:


> I think you might struggle in this day and age chap. A lot of the cars these days require much more than just a spanner to sort them out.
> 
> I work closely with a lot of garages and they pass on specialist work to each other. Just the other day I was talking to a Mech about the fuel pumps and the codes they need to talk to the ECU's etc...
> 
> ...


If i can do suspension,making wiring looms,changing clutches,engine rebuilds?

Whats the problem? I know plenty of garages who have ****ed my mates cars up before!

And i was talking about just one make of car which i know alot about!Not any old car! Also i only asked this because sureley if i charge my mates all the time and im doing alot of cars every month it can be a bit dodgy with not being a business?


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## Coxy914 (Jan 14, 2007)

bigmc said:


> I wouldn't touch you with a barge pole if you had no qualifications, I'll be suprised if the PL insurance will covoer you too tbh.


when you take your car to any garage, do you ask to see their qualifications first, before you let them work on your car??

and why wouldn't he be able to get public liability insurance?

It's not a prerequisite to have qualifications to become a mechanic.

Word of mouth is the best way of getting in business. You don't need qualifications to be a mechanic. Some of the best mechanics and people who work on my cars don't have qualifications, they are just brought up with a spanner in one hand and have learnt as they grew up, and I trust them more than I would do any main dealer or so called qualified person who has learnt his trade out of a text book.


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## Jace (Oct 26, 2005)

I used to take my cars to the main dealers, I got ripped off a few times, so my last car never saw a main dealer again after the day I picked it up all new & fresh.

I found a local garage & the guys are fantastic, I'll never use a main dealer again :thumb:


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Coxy914 said:


> when you take your car to any garage, do you ask to see their qualifications first, before you let them work on your car??
> 
> and why wouldn't he be able to get public liability insurance?
> 
> ...


I never take mine to the dealers apart from warranty work, and when you do most of the lads certs are on show in the local ones around here. I disagree about the need for qualifications, without certs/qualifications you are an amateur.


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## Mick (Jan 23, 2010)

bigmc said:


> I never take mine to the dealers apart from warranty work, and when you do most of the lads certs are on show in the local ones around here. I disagree about the need for qualifications, without certs/qualifications you are an amateur.


so you must be of the opinion that All detailers are amateurs, given that there is no official qualification for it then?

If they can be held in high regards on the merits of the quality of the work they turn out alone. why cant a mechanic be classed as a pro when he consistently fixes and maintains a car to a professional standard like detailers do?

*EDIT* not getting at you BTW, just trying to understand :thumb:


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Mick said:


> so you must be of the opinion that All detailers are amateurs, given that there is no official qualification for it then?
> 
> If they can be held in high regards on the merits of the quality of the work they turn out alone. why cant a mechanic be classed as a pro when he consistently fixes and maintains a car to a professional standard like detailers do?


Detailing is not a trade that's why there's no qualifications for it.

You might be able to rewire your house, doesn't make you a spark though does it. I refitted my bathroom last year but it doesn't make me a plumber.


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## Mick (Jan 23, 2010)

^^ i see the logic. Agreed.

However, if you can do everything a spark can do, or everything a plumber can do, whats to stop you working as one (forgetting for a moment legislation which is now in place such as the requirement to be gas safe registered etc, which is accreditation, not qualification.)?

Suppose its really a debate for another day, as we've deviated rather off topic from the original question :thumb:


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## Coxy914 (Jan 14, 2007)

bigmc said:


> I never take mine to the dealers apart from warranty work, and when you do most of the lads certs are on show in the local ones around here. I disagree about the need for qualifications, without certs/qualifications you are an amateur.


Sorry, but that's utter crap to be honest.

You see qualifications hanging up but what are they? an NVQ level 1? More than likely a copy of there public liability insurance which has been issued regardless of whether they have any qualifications at all.

That's about as much use as **** on a fish. 
What qualifications would you be looking for in your chosen mechanic exactly?

Now I've owned a lot of nice cars in my time, Porsches, Maserati's, Audi's, yanks, Lada's, BMW's, VW's and I have them all regularly serviced by either
a) my local mechanic (spannering for 42 years, only qualification is probably a GCSE in woodwork!)
b) a local company who specialise in that marque.
Would I expect to see any qualifications? No!
Would I want to see any? No!
Would I like to know that they have the skill and the knowledge to look after my car for me? Yes!

We also maintain a fleet of 50+ vehicles, and again, once out of warranty with the main dealer, these get serviced by our local friendly mechanic.

for the record, I have public liability insurance to cover me for working on customers cars. I have a o levels in geography, maths, chemistry, physics, computers and design and a HND in Transport Economics, but NOTHING at all which would remotely mean I have the ability to pick up a spanner, but they still issued me with the certificate!

I can honestly say in all my life I have never heard or seen anyone ask to see a mechanics qualification before he puts a spanner on a car.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Yes I see the certs, mostly C&G and BTec in MVE. 
Bully for you for having pl insurance too, I never said he wouldn't get cover I said I'd be surprised if they'd cover someone with no qualifications to work on other peoples cars.


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## Austin mini (Jul 15, 2011)

This may be off the topic of a mechanic but i have to agree, Im a Games console "tech" I have a pro rework station but i do not have any quals in eletronics. 

Doesnt mean i cant do the job just as good or even better than someone with the correct quals? I'd rather take a car to someone i trust and someone i know can do the job, doesnt matter if they have the quals or not. Id rather not take one to a main dealer where i have no idea whos working on it or what they know.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Lets say you service a car, the brakes need work and you rectify the problem, the next day the car fails to stop and maims/kills someone in an accident, the driver would say "I had my brakes repaired yesterday by Mr X", the courts, seeing you as a business and responsible for your actions, would require you to show that you have received full and proper training. Not only that, but to show evidence that you understood the training given.


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## Martin_HDI (Aug 19, 2010)

Interesting thread but the only people that've done work on my car since I've had it is people that have been reccomended by family or friends...

I'd rather 3 years experience on cars than 3 years in college.

Martin.


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## zrjace (Jan 31, 2008)

Some very good views on this forum! And just because I don't have the qualifications doesn't make me a ametuer :/ I can do a clutch in 2 hours, where as my mate who works for citroen main dealer takes 2 and a half hours! Yet they charge 600 for that, where as I were only charging mates £150 including clutch! I'm not saying its easy, which is why I thought I'd out a post up! I just don't want to keep doing mates cars etc and be in trouble because I'm not declared as a business! I'm not good on that side of things! Some good views by everyone though!


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Martin_HDI said:


> Interesting thread but the only people that've done work on my car since I've had it is people that have been reccomended by family or friends...
> 
> I'd rather 3 years experience on cars than 3 years in college.
> 
> Martin.


totally agree experience is always better than college. my son has just won suzuki apprentice of the year. due to his age he started 2 months later than everyone else, the reason he won was the experience he had from working with me. some of the best mech's i know have no papers. the trade dont see the qualifications as the be all, as to be a mot tester you don't need qualification just experience.


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## jcp (Oct 2, 2010)

Go for it zrjace , if you have the passion to work on cars and the experiance , go for it , the only thing id suggest is for you to look into a business start up training package , theres alot more to running a business than changing a clutch , good luck in whatever you decide to do . A fully qualified mech at the vauxhall garage serviced my car and put in 2 litres to much oil in the engine , thankfully i spotted it the next day before it did to much damage , a bit of fancy paper doesnt mean they know what there doing :wall:


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## Coxy914 (Jan 14, 2007)

bigmc said:


> Lets say you service a car, the brakes need work and you rectify the problem, the next day the car fails to stop and maims/kills someone in an accident, the driver would say "I had my brakes repaired yesterday by Mr X", the courts, seeing you as a business and responsible for your actions, would require you to show that you have received full and proper training. Not only that, but to show evidence that you understood the training given.


where are you pulling these facts from???????
and if the driver was killed in an accident, how the hell could he tell the court who did his brakes!

And if he had a bit of paper and he hadn't done the brakes correctly, what exactly would that prove???

Like I've said before and a good few others and I will ask you the same question and would like you to answer honestly:

Out of the following 2 people, who would you want to work on your car:

Mechanic A - Grew up with a spanner in one hand and torque wrench in the other, left school at 15 with 1 woodwork GCSE, and has been working on cars for the next 25 years.

Mechanic B- Got 2 months experience inside a garage but he has a BTEC in MVE.


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## Coxy914 (Jan 14, 2007)

zrjace said:


> Some very good views on this forum! And just because I don't have the qualifications doesn't make me a ametuer :/ I can do a clutch in 2 hours, where as my mate who works for citroen main dealer takes 2 and a half hours! Yet they charge 600 for that, where as I were only charging mates £150 including clutch! I'm not saying its easy, which is why I thought I'd out a post up! I just don't want to keep doing mates cars etc and be in trouble because I'm not declared as a business! I'm not good on that side of things! Some good views by everyone though!


Some advice for me, go for it. If you've got a skill for doing something, put it to good use and make a go of it. You could listen to some ill written advise and not do anything with your life, worried that you don't have the right bits of paper, or you could just say "I'm going to make a go of this" and do it.

a couple of things worth noting, being a mechanic and running a business are 2 different things. Setting up on your own in a unit is a great idea and it would be good if more people had the balls to do this rather than just sit at home or spannering for someone else for a pittance. Don't be scared to ask for business advise from anyone. The Federation of Small Business is a useful place to start and can offer you some very good and useful advise in helping you set up.

You will need to set up a business bank account. Most will offer you a years free banking, but still worth shopping around a bit.

If you cannot do accounts, get someone to help you who can. A simple excel spreadsheet is all you really need, but make sure you are strict with it.
Without stating the obvious, back street garages are well known for doing cash deals to avoid VAT. Fact of life, as main dealers charge VAT and how many people wan't to pay a 20% increase on an already overinflated price. You will need to put it through the books, well at least a damn good majority of it, else they will wonder how you can survive on a business where you're only bringing in enough money to pay the rent and rates!

Being a small business you should qualify for rates relief and even up to 100% discount. The Federation of Small businesses can assist with details like this if you are unsure.

Also, be wary of offering mates rates to everyone else you'll soon find yourself with a lot of new friends getting you to do the work cheap! Never undersell yourself if you have a skill at something!

and most of all, be prepared to put the hours in. There will be highs and lows. You have to prepare for these. Don't be tempted to take out large chunks of cash just because you've have a good few weeks. Invest it back in tools etc, and keep some there for when business is quite.

and lastly, good luck to you!
It would be nice to think more people could have the initiative to start up their own business. If it doesn't work out, at least you can say you tried!


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

It's not the qualifications that will speak for you it's the quality of your work. If you do a decent job word will get around, if you "talk the talk, but can't walk the walk" then word will spread and if you get a bad reputation it will stick.

Personally I think experience counts for a lot, paper qualifications aren't the be all and end all by a long way. That said, it won't harm you to get some.. and if you're serious about doing a quality job you'd be looking to gain them anyway, wouldn't you?

https://nextstep.direct.gov.uk/PlanningYourCareer/JobProfiles/JobProfile0033/Pages/Training.aspx

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=1073858805


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

Go for it and good luck 

All my qualifications are from experience , 

I have nothing on paper and tbh the bit of paper only means you read a few books and turned up to answer some questions about it


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

I'd rather use someone who knows the cars inside out, so I say go for it.

Main Dealers are just for people who have no interest in cars and how their car are cared for. It's all to corporate, fancy showrooms, high prices and then a fresh out of college 18 year old with all the gear and no idea to fix your pride and joy - No Thanks I'll pass and take it to a specialist.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Coxy914 said:


> Like I've said before and a good few others and I will ask you the same question and would like you to answer honestly:
> 
> Out of the following 2 people, who would you want to work on your car:
> 
> ...


Neither I do all my work myself bar warranty, I'm more qualified than most if not all mechanics I've met to do it.


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## Natalie (Jan 19, 2011)

Austin mini said:


> I'd rather take a car to someone i trust and someone i know can do the job, doesnt matter if they have the quals or not. Id rather not take one to a main dealer where i have no idea whos working on it or what they know.


This ^^

The garage I use was recommended to me by my BF, his Dad and his friends. In turn I recommended him to my Mum & Dad. One of Neil's friends now lives in London but uses this particular garage when he's back up here visiting because he knows he can trust him.


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## Coxy914 (Jan 14, 2007)

bigmc said:


> Neither I do all my work myself bar warranty, I'm more qualified than most if not all mechanics I've met to do it.


and what qualifications do you have to do this exactly????


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

A degree in mechanical engineering, a degree in electrical engineering and a masters degree in engine development and automotive systems.


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## Coxy914 (Jan 14, 2007)

bigmc said:


> A degree in mechanical engineering, a degree in electrical engineering and a masters degree in engine development and automotive systems.


So your technical knowledge of all this mechanical is very good and on paper, you should be far more qualified, but that doesn't mean you have the ability to change a clutch better than anyone who has no qualifications at all. It just means you probably have a greater understanding of how it actually works.
Being technically intelligent does not mean you have any greater ability than someone who's dextrous and has the ability to swing a spanner.

In real life, as good as qualifications are, if've no experience in your field then it's not worth much. 5 or 10 years down the line, with ample experience under your belt, and maybe time served at companies like Pro Drive, MacClaren, Williams, Jaguar etc, then people will take more note.

And given your background, it surprises me even more at your answers and attitude to be honest and has probably made you come across as a little pigheaded.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Technical and practical knowledge, I'm an ex race engineer of 7 years. How does it make me look pigheaded? It's typical of people to assume they can do all a skilled person can do because they can throw a clutch in in a few hours and it works, take my examples of wiring and plumbing, yes all well and good you can do these things but that doesn't mean people will want to pay you for these skills.


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

bigmc said:


> Technical and practical knowledge, I'm an ex race engineer of 7 years. How does it make me look pigheaded? It's typical of people to assume they can do all a skilled person can do because they can throw a clutch in in a few hours and it works, take my examples of wiring and plumbing, yes all well and good you can do these things but that doesn't mean people will want to pay you for these skills.


Good point. There are too many back street garages with unqualified people working on cars, that's why the motor trade has such a bad reputation. And the point about the clutch is a good one, just because you can do the job faster, doesn't automatically mean you're better. If you think you're good get some qualifications. If you're as good as you think you are it shouldn't be any effort. The whole reason why house wiring now has to be done by qualified people or inspected is there were too many people who thought they were up to it who were way off the mark.


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## Teddy (Dec 15, 2007)

I once knew a lad that had done a physics degree at university.

He then wired a car stereo using just insulation tape to make the connections. Just goes to show all the qualifications in the world are useless without good old common sense.


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## Coxy914 (Jan 14, 2007)

bigmc said:


> Technical and practical knowledge, I'm an ex race engineer of 7 years. How does it make me look pigheaded? It's typical of people to assume they can do all a skilled person can do because they can throw a clutch in in a few hours and it works, take my examples of wiring and plumbing, yes all well and good you can do these things but that doesn't mean people will want to pay you for these skills.


The way I read it, it's come across that because you have qualifications, you are looking down on those that don't.

At the end of the day it's down to experience. If you've got it, it will serve you 10 times better than any qualifications. Period.

For example, this place did the rebuild on my 911 turbo engine.
I couldn't care less if he's got degrees coming out of his ears, but what he has got is 25 years experience of working on proper cars. For me, that was all I needed to know that my car was going to be in the hands of someone who's got time served knowledge under his belt.

2010:
Mattias Therman & Janne Peralla: Mitsubishi Group A car

Dave Hughes: Porsche Boxster race series, new car build and testing

Kevin Clarke (Britcar): Porsche Boxster testing

Harris Kaltsounis: S2000 rally car

2009
Kimi Raikkonen & Kai Lindstrum: Fiat Super 2000 rally car

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2007
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2006
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2000
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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Teddy said:


> I once knew a lad that had done a physics degree at university.
> 
> He then wired a car stereo using just insulation tape to make the connections. Just goes to show all the qualifications in the world are useless without good old common sense.


What's physics got to do with wiring though?

And i agree with the whole "a job done quickly isn't always a job done properly" mantra.


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## Coxy914 (Jan 14, 2007)

DampDog said:


> Good point. There are too many back street garages with unqualified people working on cars, that's why the motor trade has such a bad reputation. And the point about the clutch is a good one, just because you can do the job faster, doesn't automatically mean you're better. If you think you're good get some qualifications. If you're as good as you think you are it shouldn't be any effort. The whole reason why house wiring now has to be done by qualified people or inspected is there were too many people who thought they were up to it who were way off the mark.


People use back street garages as they are generally 50% cheaper than main dealer. not everyone can afford to go to a main dealer. not all back street garages are dodgy, not all qualified mechanics are any good practically!
And changing a clutch isn't rocket science and is not on the same level as rewiring a house.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Rewiring a house isn't hard either though but you'd still pay a qualified electrician to do it.


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Just because you don't have any "qualifications" doesn't mean you aren't extremely capable. Likewise just because you have the academic knowledge doesn't necessarily mean you possess the mechnical dexterity. The really good blokes have both attributes.

Plus the vast majority of jobs will be routine, it's the tricky ones that sort the men from the boys.


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

Coxy914 said:


> People use back street garages as they are generally 50% cheaper than main dealer. not everyone can afford to go to a main dealer. not all back street garages are dodgy, not all qualified mechanics are any good practically!
> And changing a clutch isn't rocket science and is not on the same level as rewiring a house.


When I can I've always used indies, the one I found I use because he has an excellent reputation and has been established for years, the fact he is cheaper by miles is a bonus.


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## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

What if you're a fitter? You don't have any qualifications then, but you can change tryes, exhausts etc like nobodies business lol.


As long as the OP has enough sense to not bite off more than he can chew, which I'm sure he does, then I can't see any problem :car:


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

dominic84 said:


> What if you're a fitter? You don't have any qualifications then, but you can change tryes, exhausts etc like nobodies business lol.


You work in kwik fit and are the laughing stock of the country usually.


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## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

> You work in kwik fit and are the laughing stock of the country usually.


:lol: can't disagree with that


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## Flair (Dec 11, 2010)

I have been to college started an apprentiship and done part of my Nvq and motor vehicle occupations etc it's all ********, even at 16 I may aswell been giving and egg and told to suck it. It was aload of crap, I have mates fully qualified I wouldn't let near my car, you learn next to **** all, and the guys teaching us had never worked a day in a garage in there life. But paper work say they can do it, Any numpty can go to college, do the courses and get a bit of paper, doesn't mean **** most of the crap is paper work and theory tests. You learn **** in the college, and alot of people finish up with certificates still knowing **** all, because there not intrested in the job they just want a trade. You learn properly in the garage, and upto you to further your knowledge and have passion for the job, alot of people dont its awwelll am qualified now who gives ****.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

I learned loads in college, I guess it's down to the individual who's being taught. An NVQ is work based so you can't attain it without doing practical work with proof of you doing it.


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## Flair (Dec 11, 2010)

bigmc said:


> I learned loads in college, I guess it's down to the individual who's being taught. An NVQ is work based so you can't attain it without doing practical work with proof of you doing it.


Exactly, but half the garages just sign stuff off with out a care in the world too, and that's another half of the problem. I have few friends who are now qualified and tbh in the years I have known them, they spent more time pissing around doing stupid crap and posting pictures on facebook while there surposed to be learning. They simply dont care, you get what you put in, and you know in first few minutes of speaking someone if they have passion about what they do.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

bigmc said:


> I learned loads in college, I guess it's down to the individual who's being taught. An NVQ is work based so you can't attain it without doing practical work with proof of you doing it.


Couldn't agree more, I have done up to a hnc in mechanical and HNC electrical engineering (1 resit on electrical) and ive got work pushing me to do a degree next year so I'm going to talk to the university when i go back to work.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Just to clarify, you don't necessarily need qualifications to get Public Liability Insurance for the Motor Trade. Insurers generally aren't keen on new starts anyway, but will take experience into account when assessing the risk and determining if they will provide cover. If a good case is put forward, it shouldn't be a problem.

Public Liability isn't really the main concern, it's the "service indemnity" aspect which needs consideration and, in my opinion, this cover is essential for someone carrying out servicing and repairs. So you need a Public Liability policy which is suitable for the motor trade and provides the service indemnity and/or products liability.

Having a unit would also mean that you are legally liable for any loss or damage to customer's cars whilst they are in your care, so you also need to be looking at cover for customer's vehicles at your trade premises. To get this cover, you will also need Motor Trade Road Risks cover which enables you to move customers vehicles, collect, deliver etc. The costs do add up, depending of course how much cover you need and the indemnity limits you select.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

As Shiny said, this is a long, long way from cheap. In fact, if you're charging £150 for 2 hours work including a part, you'll struggle unless you're spending all day, every day messing with other people's cars on your drive. The biggest problem is volume of work - and unfortunately it's going to be extremely difficult without a big cash injection because you won't get that for a good few months whilst people get to know where you are.

If you can afford to go without pay for 6 months, after laying out thousands of pounds of insurance, and you're genuinely good at what you're doing, then it may work. On the flipside, if you're a spotty kid with an interest in Citroens and doing the odd job for your mates every few weeks, it's probably going to be a very difficult and very expensive lesson in what you can and can't do.

And I don't mean that in a harsh way, but much like IT the motor trade is full of people that are quite happy to 'have a pop' only to work out that it's a lot more difficult to get set up than they think.


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## Maxtor (Feb 23, 2007)

zrjace said:


> If i can do suspension,making wiring looms,changing clutches,engine rebuilds?
> 
> Whats the problem? I know plenty of garages who have ****ed my mates cars up before!
> 
> And i was talking about just one make of car which i know alot about!Not any old car! Also i only asked this because sureley if i charge my mates all the time and im doing alot of cars every month it can be a bit dodgy with not being a business?


Well go for it fella, If you think you have got what it takes to make it work I wish you all the luck in the world.

Regards

Maxtor.


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

bigmc said:


> take my examples of wiring and plumbing, yes all well and good you can do these things but that doesn't mean people will want to pay you for these skills.


Not sure these are the best examples, well with wiring, even if you deem yourself competent to do the work does it not need signed off by a Pat P qualified leccy if going by the letter of the law?

Not sure if the OP changes a clutch there is a requirement for a mister clutch employee to give it his seal of approval


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