# APC Fallout Remover



## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

Was browsing for something good to try. Has anyone used this stuff,

https://apcpure.com/product/iron_contaminate_and_fallout_remover


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

No but at least they appear to be an actual manufacturer


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## Itstony (Jan 19, 2018)

Looks good value indeed.
Tend to think personally the general need of some, for strong fallout remover is overrated. If you keep on top of the cleaning, any that might be there is easy removed and the risk of any damage etc. is minimal. Rarely get much if and when I use.
For the cost of that plus dilution seems really worth a punt. Not sure any can match that.
If you go for it, leave a quick review.:thumb:


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## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

Have dropped them an email. I have just bought some W6 to try. But may grab some of this too. We can use it in work etc


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Not a bleeding fallout remover.

This is an acid based fallout remover


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## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

So no good then?


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Imprezaworks said:


> So no good then?


Will perform exactly the same as bleeding fallout removers, minus the bleeding.

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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Well not strictly true.

The benefit of bleeding fallout removers is twofold:

1. You can see how much fallout is on the car by the colour reaction, and then by applying a second hit, you can see how effective the first hit was.

2. The bleeding fallout removers work differently in that the remover is ph neutral and only reacts to form an acid at the point of contact with an iron particle (i.e. almost at the "nano" type scale). Where the fallout remover does not react with an iron particle, it remains pH neutral. With an acid based fallout remover you are effectively coating your car in acid - now that won't cause your car to melt, but there are risks in doing so.


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## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

Yeah I rang and she said we can't advise yo use or not use on tht car, I suggest you Google. She was okay tbf just doing her job


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## P2K (Jun 17, 2020)

Got all excited when I saw the price for 5 litres, then read the rest of the thread.

I think I'll stick with the bleeding type.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

fatdazza said:


> Well not strictly true.
> 
> The benefit of bleeding fallout removers is twofold:
> 
> ...


So it will remove fallout without bleeding... pretty sure that's what I said.

Ps. The reaction from a bleeding fallout remover is no safer than using a non bleeding fallout remover, both are acid based. One is safer in the bottle but not in use. Also want to highlight that I do prefer the bleeding function fallout removers & that would be my own preference.

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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Brian1612 said:


> So it will remove fallout without bleeding... pretty sure that's what I said.
> 
> Ps. The reaction from a bleeding fallout remover is no safer than using a non bleeding fallout remover, both are acid based. One is safer in the bottle but not in use. Also want to highlight that I do prefer the bleeding function fallout removers & that would be my own preference.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


If you understood the science, behind how a bleeding fallout remover works, then you would realise the above statement is *very *wrong.

You come across as an argumentative person, who cannot admit to

a) someone picking you up on incorrect science
b) being very pedantic and protective of your posts, when challenged.

I am not interested in getting into arguments on here with you.

Have the good grace to be corrected when wrong or when someone adds additional, factual and helpful posts to your statements, don't immediately go on the defensive.

"The wise man is one who, knows, what he does not know."


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

I'm not sure how many of you remember or have used Autosmart's 'Fallout Remover', the non bleeding fallout remover? The chemistry of the APCPure product is exactly the same as Autosmart's. 

It's effective, but not visually impressive. If you have fallout (why else would you be using fallout remover?), then you'll have acid as a reaction anyway, particularly on well used wheels. If you use fallout remover frequently on wheels, as a wheel cleaner, then you're wasting money and doing it wrong.


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## Clean-my-sxi (Feb 5, 2008)

I can defo see the benefit of bleeding formula as you can see the results and as said by some one else you could keep applying it until no bleeding appears so you knlw you have completely removed it.

However, i personally when ive used fallout before ten to do one hit and assume ive got it all and not check again to see if theres more, i think i would go through loads if i did that. So in theory if im only doing a one hit application, wether it bleeds or not is pretty much irrelivant, but how many of us think like that, we all wanna see th the bleeding


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

fatdazza said:


> If you understood the science, behind how a bleeding fallout remover works, then you would realise the above statement is *very *wrong.
> 
> You come across as an argumentative person, who cannot admit to
> 
> ...


You clearly have a bee in your bonnet now after I correctly highlighted your blatant failings when testing & unfairly judging the carchem sealant. This was solid advice first & foremost which you, instead of acknowledging have decided to turn into an issue with me. Very ironic when you consider what you are trying to preach in your post.

Not looking to argue with you either but I will call someone out when they directly address me & make out I'm wrong by ignoring what I've said, then twisting it to suit their argument. Both are acidic, both remove embedded contaminants safely unless used without care, one bleeds, one doesn't. The end result is the same. Tell me what is not true in that statement?

I see your point with regards to the bleeding fallout remover in that the Thioglycolic acid is acidic only at the point of contact with the iron & the resulting reaction 'bleeding' down the panel. What if the car is very heavily contaminated, so much so that the full car lights up purple, my statement isn't wrong is it?

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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

roscopervis said:


> I'm not sure how many of you remember or have used Autosmart's 'Fallout Remover', the non bleeding fallout remover? The chemistry of the APCPure product is exactly the same as Autosmart's.
> 
> It's effective, but not visually impressive. If you have fallout (why else would you be using fallout remover?), then you'll have acid as a reaction anyway, particularly on well used wheels. If you use fallout remover frequently on wheels, as a wheel cleaner, then you're wasting money and doing it wrong.


Exactly this. Both are still acidic. Just because it ph neutral in the bottle doesn't mean it's more safe.

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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Brian1612 said:


> You clearly have a bee in your bonnet now after I correctly highlighted your blatant failings when testing & unfairly judging the carchem sealant. This was solid advice first & foremost which you, instead of acknowledging have decided to turn into an issue with me. Very ironic when you consider what you are trying to preach in your post.
> 
> Not looking to argue with you either but I will call someone out when they directly address me & make out I'm wrong by ignoring what I've said, then twisting it to suit their argument. Both are acidic, both remove embedded contaminants safely unless used without care, one bleeds, one doesn't. The end result is the same. Tell me what is not true in that statement?
> 
> ...


What on earth are you going on about? Check your facts. I have not commented on the car chem sealant thread. You are confusing me with someone who might give a damn! You can't even get that right for a start.

You are a case and a half :doublesho

You are wrong, face facts.

Take the acidic fallout remover out of the bottle, stick your hand in it for half an hour. With the other hand do the same with a bleeding fallout remover.

Then tell me they are the same thing out of the bottle.

Better still, to use your example of a heavily contaminated car. Spray it liberally with the acid fallout remover and stick your hand on it for half an hour.

Do the same with the bleeding fallout remover, and see which hand is better. :wall:

You clearly do not understand that the bleeding fallout remover becomes acidic only at the point of contact with the minute iron particle, not over the whole car.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

The choice is:

a) Spray your car with a strong acid

b) Spray your car with a pH neutral product, which generates a small acidic reaction, only at the point it contacts an iron particle. 

The bleeding fallout remover does not turn into a strong acid when sprayed over the car.

That is science, that is fact. Anyone who says different does not understand the chemistry involved. :thumb:


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

fatdazza said:


> What on earth are you going on about? Check your facts. I have not commented on the car chem sealant thread. You are confusing me with someone who might give a damn! You can't even get that right for a start.
> 
> You are a case and a half :doublesho
> 
> ...


Apologies I have mistaken you for another member. Now onto your reply... again you are ignoring what I've said & simply decided to repeat what we have already discussed at length but brought nothing new to the discussion & not responded to what I've said. You are great at deflection I'll say that much .

Your example of acid on skin, totally irrelevant. You're spraying it on the car, not yourself. Your skin won't react the same way as clearcoat will to the acids in these products so again, utterly pointless to highlight. It has no relevance to this discussion at all. This product is ph 1.5 neat so yes, it's acidic in the bottle. It can be diluted down 1:3 so I expect the PH levels will drop to around 4-5 when the oxalic acid is diluted, do you know the ph levels when Thioglycolic acid reacts? Less than 3 from memory.

As it's clear you aren't capable of properly reading someones post & responding to said post logically we will end it here. If you decide to actually respond to what I've said previously let me know as I do enjoy a good debate & the opportunity to be educated further 

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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Brian1612 said:


> Apologies I have mistaken you for another member. Now onto your reply... again you are ignoring what I've said & simply decided to repeat what we have already discussed at length but brought nothing new to the discussion & not responded to what I've said. You are great at deflection I'll say that much .
> 
> Your example of acid on skin, totally irrelevant. You're spraying it on the car, not yourself. Your skin won't react the same way as clearcoat will to the acids in these products so again, utterly pointless to highlight. It has no relevance to this discussion at all. This product is ph 1.5 neat so yes, it's acidic in the bottle. It can be diluted down 1:3 so I expect the PH levels will drop to around 4-5 when the oxalic acid is diluted, do you know the ph levels when Thioglycolic acid reacts? Less than 3 from memory.
> 
> ...


Yet again you show your lack of scientific knowledge. This will be my last post on this matter. I am fed up with your arrogance.

1. pH is a logarithmic scale. Do you understand that? I suspect clearly not, as demonstrated by your answer. I will try to explain in simple terms:

To go from pH1 to pH 2 you need to dilute with neutral water 10 to 1

To then go from pH 2 to pH3 you dilute by a further 10 to 1

If you struggle with maths then to go from pH1 to pH3 dilute 1 to 100

To go from pH 1 to pH4 dilute 1 to 1000

Do you get it? :wall:

You do not dilute pH1.5 by 3 to 1 and get pH 4 to 5 :lol:

If you are so pig headed you cannot understand the science you are a danger to yourself and a danger to people on this forum who my be taken in by your blustering.

Again for the final time:

The thioglycolate reaction with the iron particle is a *local *reaction. The entire thioglycolate solution does not instantly become acidic once it hits the car panel - only at the local point of the reaction with the iron. Do you get it now?

Do as I suggested and test it with your hands (although it would be safer with a litmus test). Spray it on the car and place you hands on the car. Nice and simple. Left hand on the acid, right hand on the thiogycolate solution.

Post the evidence of the thioglycolate attacking your hands, versus the acidic fallout remover. Then come back and post a review :lol:


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## Woodsmoke (Feb 12, 2018)

I would have to agree With Fatdazza here, the reaction is very local and not that strongly acidic in comparison, it is by far the safer(personally and to your clear coat) product. it's a big difference, I can see where your argument is coming from Brian, but its taking something to an extreme that just isnt likely, very much like your examples of chemical resistance testing LSP's which i totally agree with.


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## Itstony (Jan 19, 2018)

FWIW may I add a comment?
There should be good reason to challenge a comment for all to read. Adding insults adds nothing, add snipes too is unnecessary. 
Take it to PM's and have a row on there.
It seems to be getting worse on here where it's, "Quote" respond, "Quote" respond, as if that is necessary when on the same page? Think we are all cable of reading what's going on without all that constantly. 
What's is that all about Alfie?
It could have been very enjoyable thread had it been kept adult and not gone to the playground.


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## P2K (Jun 17, 2020)

Nice debate but it has left me somewhat slightly confused.

Are you saying that this product along with Autosmart Fallout Remover are essentially like covering your car in acid where as a colour changing fallout remover such as Autosmart Red 7 only turns to acid once it reacts to the metal particles?

Both the wifes and my car are white so fallout shows up really easily. Because of this I often find myself hitting them more than once, especially when preparing for compounding or polishing.

I use Red 7 but currently I have only found it for about £40 inc postage, which is really expensive compared to this product, however I don't fancy covering our cars in acid either, even if it is only £12.

Anyone point me in the direction of somewhere I can get Red 7 from cheaper?
Is the product in this thread essentially covering our cars in acid?

Thanks guys, keep the debates coming :thumb:


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

You are correct, the bleeding fallout removers are only acidic at the local point it contacts the iron particle.

For example if sprayed on trim or rubber or a panel and there is no iron present it will remain entirely pH neutral.

In my mind much safer for the car and more importantly much safer for you.

One point I always stress to people is that the active ingredients in bleeding fallout removers are not cheap. Therefore those offering cheap versions are often able to do so by using less of the active ingredients. Thereby you need to use more and don't end up saving.


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## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

May just leave it lol


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## RS3 (Mar 5, 2018)

P2K said:


> Nice debate but it has left me somewhat slightly confused.
> 
> Are you saying that this product along with Autosmart Fallout Remover are essentially like covering your car in acid where as a colour changing fallout remover such as Autosmart Red 7 only turns to acid once it reacts to the metal particles?
> 
> ...


I paid £25 for a gallon at the RSOC show at Croft last year 30th June. Ive been looking for it at less than £30 every since because its great stuff (Not keen on putting it on bodywork paint as it does seem to have some strong detergents in it) as a wheel cleaner.
I even contacted my local Autosmart man in van and I think he was asking £35 so i will use others until I find it at the right price again. My latest others is Brake buster which I have to say I am also impressed with diluted 1:2 and Car Chem alloy clean which I haven't used yet.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

@P2K KKD ferrum would be well worth considering if you are looking for a cheap fallout remover which still works well. Usually available for around £30 although I haven't checked recently.

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## P2K (Jun 17, 2020)

Thanks guys for the replies.
Sorry for being a nub nub but I can't see where to "thank you" within the thread.

I think I paid just over £30 for 5 litres of Red 7 last time so an extra tenner is a little steep but I like the product.

However I will certainly be looking at reviews and prices for the others suggested by RS3 and Brian to see how they compare :thumb:


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

Bottom right of every post, theres a "thanks" button


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## P2K (Jun 17, 2020)

-Kev- said:


> Bottom right of every post, theres a "thanks" button


Yeah thats where I thought it should be but I only have "Quote" "Muliti Quote" and "Quick Reply"

I've tried on two PC's and using Firefox and Chrome??

Anyway never mind. I don't want to take this thread over with my problem


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

You need a certain number of posts to thank :thumb:


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Interesting thread - manufacturers are so misleading by stating 'pH neutral' and 'coating safe' on these bleeding fallout removers!!

Always wince when using fallout removers because of the price, not just the smell. Seem to go through 1/3 of a bottle of Korrosol each decon I do, I've no benchmark for whether that's a lot.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

atbalfour said:


> Interesting thread - manufacturers are so misleading by stating 'pH neutral' and 'coating safe' on these bleeding fallout removers!!
> 
> Always wince when using fallout removers because of the price, not just the smell. Seem to go through 1/3 of a bottle of Korrosol each decon I do, I've no benchmark for whether that's a lot.


Bleeding fallout removers do far less damage to coatings than acid based fallout removers.

Your usage seems a bit high, but 200 to 250 ml is a fair amount for a medium (e.g focus ) sized car.

Also a full decon using an iron remover is only really necessary at most twice a year, so all things considered it is not that expensive for how good the product is.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Agreed fatdazza - still, advertising pH neutral in the bottle is somewhat misleading. Gyeon recently claimed on their social media that you could hit any Gyeon coating with Q2M Iron on a weekly basis and it wouldn't harm anything - bold statement... not sure if that says more about the coatings or the Iron remover if it is indeed true :lol:

My own gets it twice a year, it's the other cars I'm doing in between. Eats away at my pocket money :wall:


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## Itstony (Jan 19, 2018)

I agree *fatdazza * with the regularity of using fallout. In general as long as the car and wheels are cleaned regular and properly, use fallout remover max twice a year is good. Still then get very little bleed. Even the wheels have very little deposits. Wheels should be treated as panels for me, it appears they are not. Maybe people think it's part of a regular wash routine, it's def not for me.
Using BHK which is identical to BHAW which has a viscosity additive for cling-ability. Maybe of help for neglected wheels, but BHK sprayed on works well on contact. In fact, did two wheels on a car couple of days ago and worked really well, with a bit of brushing, not much though. :thumb:


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

If by BHK you mean Korrosol and BHAW as autowheels, worth noting that they are different in that autowheels contains a degreaser.


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## Itstony (Jan 19, 2018)

Yeah, pedantically point taken, there are extra cleaning properties in AW, but as a fallout/brake dust remover BHK is enough and does the job perfectly for people that do not neglect them. Generally us guys do the cleaning and iron removal is separate stages. Maybe I am in a minority, using KC Vb cleaner weekly regular and BHK once a year maybe twice, hence why BHAW is not required for me. :thumb:


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Like you I prefer "single use products" for wheel cleaning, and prefer to use a separate cleaner followed by an iron remover. Always felt that things that try to do two things often don't excel when compared to specialist products.

Perhaps not so much with autowheel, but definitely the case the tar/iron remover combos. :thumb:


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## Woodsmoke (Feb 12, 2018)

I use auto wheel... blood spectacular wheel cleaner, kinda do a mini foam and rinse the wheels to get rid of 90% of the muck, then auto wheel... agitate a bit rinse and every time spotless love it...


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