# Need help with a dealer situation.



## pogo6636 (Jan 18, 2009)

Hey people. 
To give you the back story,

My mother on law was looking to change her car. 
Went to a dealer in Aberdeen. Much discussion(3+hours) a deal was struck with the salesman and confirmed by the sales manager. 
The car is brand new and should have been ready for delivery within 2-3 weeks. 
3 weeks is up on Tuesday. 
The problem is... My MIL went to see them today and she has been informed that they have made a mistake and the deal was incorrect. 
Because of this they cannot honour the proposed deal and are saying she will have to re do a deal. I.e. Put more money in there pocket. 
The paperwork for the vehicle was signed originally by the dealership and my MIL. 
Does she have to take this sh1t or can she fight her corner to get the original deal?
I feel they are just trying to get out of there mistake. 
Any thoughts would be much appreciated. 



Pogo


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## Rundie (Oct 2, 2007)

How much cheaper than the book price?


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## danwel (Feb 18, 2007)

Sounds very mucho or they ****ed up and are trying to get out of it. I'd be standing my ground!!


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## Snowy172 (Oct 2, 2013)

dealer tried this when we got the mrs a fiesta a few years back so we told the dealer not to worry and we would look else where the following day they rung back offering the oringal deal


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## slim_boy_fat (Jun 23, 2006)

If it's all signed & sealed [and possibly deposit paid, or is it to be a trade-in?] then it's a legal contract afaik, enforceable at law.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

See what the t&c's say, if they have agreed a price and a deposit has been paid then a contract stands. Think of it like this, if your mil had paid a deposit and then decided to cancel they would have shouted about a contract and said you lose your deposit

I would stand your ground, say you want the car at the price agreed and within the time scale agreed, time would be important as they could mess you about and stall you. Don't be afraid to travel either, a £50 airfare could save you more.

It sounds like they have either list the car and by that I mean another dealer has got it, or someone else has got it and won't let your dealer have it.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Sounds like a contract is in place to me.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

As has been stated check the small print, they usually have clauses to wriggle out of these situations. I would be tempted to pull out of the deal and demand a total refund of deposit, you may have a fight on your hands but you stand a better chance of them backing down in my opinion.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

It wasn't Specialist cars was it? 

Phone around other dealers and see what they can do. 

Unless the car was exceptionally cheap and nowhere else can match it, I'd be happier to take my business elsewhere now.


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## pogo6636 (Jan 18, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice. 
It appears that the sales man has made a blunder and not put the correct deposit down. 

3 yo car for trade in with 10k on the clock..
£4500 to pay this car off. (Probably worth £7500-£8000 according to what is on autotrader)
Offered £6000 for trade in. 
They forgot to remove the £4500 before entering the remaining £1500 as a deposit.
This obviously leaves a big hole in their pocket. 
There was no financial deposit as this was to be the old car. 
Now we are being offered a pre registered 13 plate which is exactly the same but £11 per months extra, £1000 deposit from us and no cash back(£1000). This leaves MIL £2000 worse off with an older car and higher monthly payments..

Meeting arranged for Monday with the general manager. 
I was informed the dealership would be charge £1500 to return the car if it was not purchased. 
Mitch head scratching to do before the meeting..


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## mattsbmw (Jul 20, 2008)

i suppose, being devils advocate, did you know they had done this and hoped they wouldn't notice?


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## pogo6636 (Jan 18, 2009)

Kerr said:


> It wasn't Specialist cars was it?
> 
> Phone around other dealers and see what they can do.
> 
> Unless the car was exceptionally cheap and nowhere else can match it, I'd be happier to take my business elsewhere now.


No. It was not.. Name and shame after the event if no joy is had..
Hopefully I will get to come back on Monday and say everything is sorted out and the car is on its way, but I am under no illusions. I live in the real Aberdeen world.. Apparently everybody up here is loaded and has money to burn. :lol:


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## pogo6636 (Jan 18, 2009)

mattsbmw said:


> i suppose, being devils advocate, did you know they had done this and hoped they wouldn't notice?


I had not noticed. 
I thought it was a ridiculously good deal but who am I to say whether they can use their own computer system correctly.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I don't see it as £2000 worse off if the mistake was to leave an extra £4500, if they have made such a blunder I would expect them to be more than happy to let you walk


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## Deanoecosse (Mar 15, 2007)

Its been a clear genuine clerical error by the dealer, their not trying to pull a fast one. I very much doubt you would be able to force them to honour the original deal even if you pushed it down the legal route.

However, the correct deal doesn't match the £ figures you were quoted, so you would be perfectly within your legal rights to walk away from the deal. IF the dealer genuinely would be charged £1500 to return the car if you don't complete the deal (not your concern, as they made the error), I would squeeze them to give you a discount on it, say halfway at £750?


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## pogo6636 (Jan 18, 2009)

SteveTDCi said:


> I don't see it as £2000 worse off if the mistake was to leave an extra £4500, if they have made such a blunder I would expect them to be more than happy to let you walk


I see your point, but If they had not offered the original deal, none of this would have arisen. Now they are offering everything they can to keep the business.


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## mattsbmw (Jul 20, 2008)

looking from the dealer point of view, if they have basically given you £4500 too much off and it would cost them £1500 to return the car then by letting you walk it saves them £3000.

I think in this case you would find it very difficult to get them to honour contract.

I would be trying other dealers and seeing what sort of deal they offer and then going back to original dealer.


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## pogo6636 (Jan 18, 2009)

mattsbmw said:


> looking from the dealer point of view, if they have basically given you £4500 too much off and it would cost them £1500 to return the car then by letting you walk it saves them £3000.
> 
> I think in this case you would find it very difficult to get them to honour contract.
> 
> I would be trying other dealers and seeing what sort of deal they offer and then going back to original dealer.


As I say. I am under no illusions. 
That is mainly what the meeting on Monday is for.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

how did this go?

<<<< intrigued


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## President Swirl (Oct 23, 2011)

Tell them it was only rain that came down in the last shower, and you're taking your hard earned elsewhere.


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

Same here 4500 is hell of a saving, did they offer you free car mats instead?


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## Rebel007 (May 7, 2013)

I would be shocked if they didnt have E&OE excepted on the contract and also Shocked if the price was not subject to varience in the contract itself, I used to be a business manager for a group of garages and can say with absolute certainty that it was on every contract used by the company I worked for and the contracts were from the MAA (Motor Agents Association) as are most sales contracts used in the UK, in Scotland there is an equivalent organisation and I would expect the situation to be very similar but have no experience so cannot be absolutely certain.

I am reading this as a problem over money still owing on the part exchange car, the point is the garage can stick to the exact words of the law if they choose and insist the purchaser pays the settlement in full any credit agreement states it is the person who takes out the loan's duty to pay off any outstanding balance before the vehicle is sold or transferred to a motor dealer, after all the loan is in the purchasers name and it is their contract not the garages. 

The garage normally do this paperwork and sellement to help the customer and obviously to make it easier to sell cars, what I am trying to say is legally they have done nothing wrng unless I am missing something.

It appears the garage feel bad about the situation and are doing everything possible to try and ensure your "MIL" can still buy a car from them, it is obvious going elsewhere will cost a LOT more money as no other garage will feel that obligation. If you decide to go elsewhere you are really cutting off your nose to spite your face as the saying goes but that garage would probably be better off financially if you did decide to do that.

Your choice but under those circumstances I know what I would do.

PS The above is all subject to me having understood the situation correctly which may not be the case cos I often get things wrong


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

If there's a contract in place (which it sounds like there is) they can break the contract as anyone can. If they break the contract then you are entitled to reasonable damages... but what are reasonable damages? I'm not sure you could argue in front of a judge that more than £100 is reasonable.

You're in a strong negotiating position with the dealer now and although you're not going to get the original deal you can probably get a better deal then you should have if the paperwork had been right and better than you could get elsewhere.


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## pogo6636 (Jan 18, 2009)

so.......

To give a full update of what has been going on.
Monday morning, My wife and MIL met with citizeans advice. This was more to get a bit of confidence that we were doing the right thing and that the law was on our side and we were not just going to be taken to the cleaners. right enough, they thought we had a very good case and if the company would not honour the deal as written in the signed agreement, then we could look into court action as they believed this was a breach of the contract. they also suggested that the company would at worst, make a good will gesture to attain a car at a very similar cost for us.
Armed with this knowledge, on Monday afternoon, we went up to Aberdeen to meet the general manager at the garage who i will now disclose as Arnold Clark Toyota Aberdeen.

Initially we explained the situation then sat back to see what his reaction was and what he was willing to offer.

Apart from being very sorry for the upset that the situation had caused, he did not try to force anything. He stated clearly that it was our right to question the deal and the manner that it was handled and said we had two options. 
1, we could go down the legal route (which we don't really want) but we would finish our meeting now and he would have to pass this on to their legal team,

or 
2, We try to work out a deal in our favour to keep both parties happy.

ultimately we have ended up with an 13 plate pre registered car with 2 miles on the clock, no deposit from us, the trade in for our current car was pushed up nearly £750
and the monthly payments are lower then the original quote.

only two downsides in my eyes are the car is a 13 instead of a 63.
small thing, but it may make a difference when it comes to resale.
(judging by the miles that will be covered,(10,000 in 3 years) I doubt it will make to much difference though.

The other thing is they only had the pre registered cars in silver.
Now i know this is a personal thing, but i am not a fan of silver cars. No offence to silver owners, just not my choice. But this will not be my car, so MIL is fine with this so i am not to worried.

all in all, I think the deal was fair as the car is unused and is a lot cheaper than we were originally expecting to pay 3 weeks ago when this first started looking.

any questions, fire away.
I am pooped now so i will answer tomorrow.


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## pogo6636 (Jan 18, 2009)

Oh, and the sales manager was relieved of his position and will return to a sales adviser when he returns from his "weeks holiday"
the plan was not to mess with peoples careers, but if you are not up to the job then step back and let someone else do it.
Some of us work in areas where a mistake can cost lives, or major expenses. i really don't tolerate incompetence from professionals.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Glad you got it sorted without the hassal of legal action and got a price you are happy with.

I wouldn't worry about the plate, it makes very little difference and I get the feeling it's on something similar to a pcp then the rv would have been calculated and there is no risk to you. With regards to the sales manager being demoted, everyone is allowed to make mistakes and I think a demotion is a bit harsh if it's there first offence.


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

pogo6636 said:


> Oh, and the sales manager was relieved of his position and will return to a sales adviser when he returns from his "weeks holiday"
> the plan was not to mess with peoples careers, but if you are not up to the job then step back and let someone else do it.
> Some of us work in areas where a mistake can cost lives, or major expenses. i really don't tolerate incompetence from professionals.


glad you got it sorted but your last comment is wrong imho, those who work in areas which costs lives work because they chose to but are they still perfect? love to meet someone who has never made what seems to be a genuine error have you not? tolerate incompetence from professionals? it was a genuine mistake the guy was only human, now because of this he may have lost earnings etc.....worry of one more mistake and possible his job effecting a possible family etc............ hope you enjoy the saving you got now because of this, personall from your last comment hope the car breaks down and gives you trouble


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

alan hanson said:


> glad you got it sorted but your last comment is wrong imho, those who work in areas which costs lives work because they chose to but are they still perfect? love to meet someone who has never made what seems to be a genuine error have you not? tolerate incompetence from professionals? it was a genuine mistake the guy was only human, now because of this he may have lost earnings etc.....worry of one more mistake and possible his job effecting a possible family etc............ hope you enjoy the saving you got now because of this, personall from your last comment hope the car breaks down and gives you trouble


lots of people lose their jobs through incompetence so why should the SM be any different??????


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## djgregory (Apr 2, 2013)

By the sounds of it, it was a typo mistake not incompetence.

I'm hoping the car breaks down often and gives you lots of hassle.

From one little typo this guy has been demoted and will more than likely have reduced earnings.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

djgregory said:


> By the sounds of it, it was a typo mistake not incompetence.
> 
> I'm hoping the car breaks down often and gives you lots of hassle.
> 
> From one little typo this guy has been demoted and will more than likely have reduced earnings.


so it is incompetence then (im assuming he typed it in)? could have lost the company a lot of money, could have done it before? we dont know


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## Stufat (Apr 30, 2013)

djgregory said:


> By the sounds of it, it was a typo mistake not incompetence.
> 
> I'm hoping the car breaks down often and gives you lots of hassle.
> 
> From one little typo this guy has been demoted and will more than likely have reduced earnings.


Bit harsh, we don't know the history of the sm.
Perhaps he was on a final warning and this was the last straw


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## James Bagguley (Jul 13, 2013)

Glad you got it sorted out :thumb:
I think some of you guys are being a little harsh.
The fact is, a problem arose, one that could hardly be ignored by either party.
It was the company's call on whether or not disciplinary action was taken, and i dont think the O.P. was gloating, just stating the outcome.


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

bidderman1969 said:


> lots of people lose their jobs through incompetence so why should the SM be any different??????


shouldnt be but i dont believe it was incompetence but a typo, yeh checks should be in place to stop this but mistakes do happen and will continue too. i know the OP didnt get him demoted and yes he could have been on a final warning but the OP's post came across as though he was pleased this had happened. dont get me wrong i would be chuffed either if i was him but everyone got demoted following a typo then hardly anyone would be working.


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## pogo6636 (Jan 18, 2009)

SteveTDCi said:


> Glad you got it sorted without the hassal of legal action and got a price you are happy with.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about the plate, it makes very little difference and I get the feeling it's on something similar to a pcp then the rv would have been calculated and there is no risk to you. With regards to the sales manager being demoted, everyone is allowed to make mistakes and I think a demotion is a bit harsh if it's there first offence.


not first offence.
his coat was on a shoogly nail as they say.
according to the dealership.


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## pogo6636 (Jan 18, 2009)

alan hanson said:


> glad you got it sorted but your last comment is wrong imho, those who work in areas which costs lives work because they chose to but are they still perfect? love to meet someone who has never made what seems to be a genuine error have you not? tolerate incompetence from professionals? it was a genuine mistake the guy was only human, now because of this he may have lost earnings etc.....worry of one more mistake and possible his job effecting a possible family etc............ hope you enjoy the saving you got now because of this, personall from your last comment hope the car breaks down and gives you trouble


fairs fair.
your opinion.


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## pogo6636 (Jan 18, 2009)

Sorry if some of you were offended by my comment.

Alan Hanson, I was not gloating. It might have come across that way, for which i appoligise. 

I would be happy for no action to be taken against the SM, but as i say, "professionals" should have a certain level of competence in my opinion. Especially when it comes to the financial markets. There should be no excuse for not checking figures. I can just add that the paperwork was not looked at by ANYONE within the company before my MIL spoke to them nearly 3 weeks after the original deal. Nobody spotted this error not just the SM.


I did not start this thread to slander the SM, i thought most people would be interested in the outcome.
I would like to draw a line under the comment I made and any remarks in response.
anything about the deal I will happily talk about.


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

no worries i shouldnt have probably put hope the car gives you trouble just a bit miffed at why you felt the need to include it in your post i guess. but its your thread sure car wil be fine silver for the mil is probably a good option with cleaning etc......


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## pogo6636 (Jan 18, 2009)

silver for sure will be good as it seems to appear on our driveway every time it gets dirty!!!!!!!


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