# Sticky  Scratch and stone chip removal....



## Reflectology

Having cleared this with Viper to post up this guide I thought it only fair to offer a different approach to scratch and stone chip repair....yeah there are a few on here and results are good....anyway here goes....

*Guide to scratch repair using the cut/shave technique….*

In this guide you will find out the difference between wet sanding scratches and using the cut technique, the effect of the cut method and its advantages, although you may not automatically think of any advantages but they are there, as you will learn later…..
The Titanium Block
At around an inch square and about 5mm thick this little block could be the saviour to so many awkward scratch related defects….Titanium is one of the hardest metals known to man and once this little block has been engineered and sharpened it will stay sharp, this is not only limited to one cutting edge but eight in total…. Mine is 9 yrs old and still as sharp as it was the day I first received it….
Getting started is a simple matter of following the basic rules of touch up, firstly ensure there is no dirt, grime, grease or even wax residue present in the scratch itself, the way I do this is a thorough wipe down with IPA, if there is any rust present this needs to be dealt with accordingly by using a rust inhibitor to eat away at the rust, not too sure how effective this stuff but at least its got you started, primer is necessary in this case, depending on how deep and wide the scratch depends on the thickness of the brush to be used, a couple of coats of primer should suffice, should you overlap the primer at this stage and as it is still wet wipe this away from the edge of the scratch….
Now, onto the colour coat, most touch up pens bought from dealers will be a better match than those from your local high street motor factors, you all know which one, my preferred choice though is my local paint specialist, if the car is non metallic then a straight colour in either high solid or cellulose can be mixed for me, I tend to go for the HS as this has a better cutting surface as it flows a little easier, however I do get cellulose mixed up as well for other methods of scratch repair, this is also the case with metallics, the colour is solvent basecoat and the clearcoat is HS and Cellulose, obviously hardener has to be present for the HS.

Once you have chosen the correct brush size do not get the temptation just to whack a thick coat on and have done with it, build the coats up on a basis of "the thinner the coat the better the finish" this also allows solvents to escape more evenly which in turn allows the paint form more evenly, this must be allowed to dry, not completely but sufficient enough to hold a further coat, if you are using basecoat you must also allow for the clearcoat that needs to be applied, once the touch up process is completed it must be left to fully cure, otherwise the block will start to snag, likewise should the process be wet flatting at this stage you will be left with micro bubbles in the paint finish, ultimately either of these will affect the finished result, the way I used to dry them was an infra red heat lamp but not cost effective unless it's a day to day thing, halogen lamps create enough heat to cure the paint but do take longer….
Now, onto the cutting, the repaired scratch should have paint protruding, slightly over the edges of the scratch, not too heavy, if the paint does look heavy then leave it a while longer….taking the block hold it against the panel at an angle of around 30-40 degrees, basically your finger should be in contact with the panel, now slightly move over the top of the scratch removing fine shavings, in some cases this one pass is sufficient but in heavier finishes it could take upto 4 or 5 passes to get the repair flat, being careful not to snag the edge of the block on the surrounding paint area, this will result in slight scratches which should polish out in the same repair polishing period, unfortunately some of these snags have caused deeper damage which then need either repairing or indeed wet sanding. Having finished the cutting you will be left with a completely level surface repair requiring NO flatting, this can either be polished to a finish now or after the rest of the correction has been done, if any. Such is the high standard of the scratch repair little polishing should be required, I find that on a simple scratch repair with no other work be carried out a Farecla black finishing pad with Dodo juice Lime Prime is sufficient to bring a finish to the repaired area.

The pictures below show the scratch repair on a carbon black BMW M3….

Scratch before repair having been touched in by the customer...










During...










And after the cut ready for finishing










Finished...Farecla Black Foam Finishing Pad and Lime Prime used...










The advantages of this system is a true finish to match the surrounding paint finish, wet sanding however creates a slightly more flatter surface than the paint around it, another advantage is the time and effort it takes to polish the repaired area, and the main advantage is one where thin paint does not allow the wet sanding technique to be performed as strikethrough may occur due to the flatting and the polish needed to bring out the finish, this affecting quality of the repair itself, obviously this would have been assessed before hand.

The main disadvantages are that if a mistake with the block is made and you snag the edge it will lead to another repair if it cuts through the clearcoat, I have only seen this once and it was done as a demo, too much pressure allowed the block to grip and shave straight through the clearcoat, I would say that another disadvantage is time, but the time taken for the paint to dry is the same as it is in wet sanding methods, therefore the cutting technique could well be a little quicker due to less finishing, although this is slight.
A lot may seem this as a bit of a gimmick method, but if it is not tried and tested how would anyone know how good the results are.
I have spent full days repairing scratches to whole vehicles using this method, if you can imagine scratches on every panel, sometimes as long as the panel and some as small as a centimetre long, imagine wet sanding all the scratch repairs, a long time polishing is ahead, you may think if the damage is such then why not repaint it, cost, materials and time spring to mind, in a refurbishment centre time and money was of the essence and if I could do this sort of thing in a day or so instead of a week, then it works for me.
Well that's the info on the cutting technique for scratch repair, hope you find it useful….

*Stone chip Repair....*

This system can also be used on slight surface scratches....this however is almost the same as one posted in another thread in the showroom....difference being I dont use lighter fluid or enamel paints....

To achieve results of almost 95-99% it is imperative to have the correct colour mixed by your local bodyshop consumables supplier or internet sites that do paint mixing....

Once the colour has been sourced....in this instance BMW Jerez Black its time to crack on....the colour itself is mixed with Cellulose clearcoat as this will form the shine on the surface of the chip filled....the process is below....

*Stone chips* on the front bumper....



















The process was to cover the bumper in paint, *solvent base with cellulose clear* mixed in....it is applied with a lint free cloth and left to dry....the heavier *stone chips* were touched in and cut as well....




























Doesn't look a pretty sight but it is effective, as you will find out, it was polished back with *Farecla Total and a Scholl Orange Pad*, which was on its way out so making a mess of it wasnt a problem....





































This one was finished with *Zaino all in one* and a quick shufty of *Z3* and *Z8*....the results and smile on the owners face are worth the effort alone....although he doesnt look very smiley faced the pic....

Hope these guides have helped and entice you all into giving it a go....


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## R0B

Good guide Russ.


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## spursfan

That is one hell of a good job, will have to try that second one with the cloth, my bumper has a few chips that need attention:thumb:

Kev


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## MidlandsCarCare

Great guide, must try that myself!


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## BRUNBERG

Hi Russ, excellent write up mate. The second technique seems very easy. Do you literally just mix the colour coded paint with cellulose clear coat and then rub over? What sort of longevity can be expected from this repair mate?


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## Keith McK

Great guide and thank you for sharing it with us.

Where do you purchase the titanium block to shave the paint, and does this work for single stage paints also?


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## CraigQQ

where can i get one of the little shaver things?

been wanting one for ages..

good guide russ.. great base for practicing from for the newbies:thumb:
well done.


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## Reflectology

BRUNBERG said:


> Hi Russ, excellent write up mate. The second technique seems very easy. Do you literally just mix the colour coded paint with cellulose clear coat and then rub over? What sort of longevity can be expected from this repair mate?


Yes mate just mix the paint roughly 50-50 and wipe on, just make sure to et the coats completely dry before machining, the repair is a permanent fix mate, as long as the panel and chips are free of wax etc then on it will stay....



Keith McK said:


> Great guide and thank you for sharing it with us.
> 
> Where do you purchase the titanium block to shave the paint, and does this work for single stage paints also?





CraigQQ said:


> where can i get one of the little shaver things?
> 
> been wanting one for ages..
> 
> good guide russ.. great base for practicing from for the newbies:thumb:
> well done.


Ebay for the paint shaver chaps, at least thats where I saw them last....


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## ianstaley

Great guide, love the idea of paint over the bumper, but dont think black will work on my merc its silver. yeah I know Im bein a smart ass Ian still a great artickel Ian


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## Junkman2008

Those are some very good results!


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## cockney123

*Were to buy*

Love the sound of this but were do you get it


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## Lee gsi

Not been able to find one either.


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## sean20

id like one of them shavers but carnt finde them on ebay


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## sunil1234

http://www.dtc-uk.com/Smart-Repair/Festool-De-Nib-Tool/p-11-1138/


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## lucky_paddy

Hi Russ, this is a great guide,

In 'stone chip' method 2 - Am I correct in assuming that you polish off all of the 'rubbed on' paint, thus leaving fresh paint only in the chips?

What polish/pad combo do you recommend?


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## ant_s

Missed this when it was originally posted but a great guide Russ, the 2nd techinque looks very very good for road rash. In the pic I could see a pretty large tin of paint, was that already mixed or did you mix it with laquer yourself. I only ask as I brought some touch-up paint for my old Fiesta (think it was 100ml) but I only ended up using a few ml. So when I do touch-ups on my Astra I'll know to order less now.


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## danthes4man

Think a short video of the stone chip removal process would be very helpful, especially for us who lack the confidence to just have a go... :doublesho

Looks fantastic though.

Cheers

DTM


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## Reflectology

lucky_paddy said:


> Hi Russ, this is a great guide,
> 
> In 'stone chip' method 2 - Am I correct in assuming that you polish off all of the 'rubbed on' paint, thus leaving fresh paint only in the chips?
> 
> What polish/pad combo do you recommend?


You are correct, all paint is polished off....pad and polish you need something that is going to contribute to your finish mate, I tend to use an old, not too old polishing pad and a medium polish....



ant_s said:


> Missed this when it was originally posted but a great guide Russ, the 2nd techinque looks very very good for road rash. In the pic I could see a pretty large tin of paint, was that already mixed or did you mix it with laquer yourself. I only ask as I brought some touch-up paint for my old Fiesta (think it was 100ml) but I only ended up using a few ml. So when I do touch-ups on my Astra I'll know to order less now.


The tin had a 10th (100ml) of a litre in but another 10th of celly clear added by myself....I get my paints mixed in small quantities as you just dont need a lot....but most places will only mix this amount as a minimum....


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## Valis

The process was to cover the bumper in paint, *solvent base with cellulose clear* mixed in...

Why you choose cellulose clear?
HS clear is usable with this technique too?


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## AcN

sunil1234 said:


> http://www.dtc-uk.com/Smart-Repair/Festool-De-Nib-Tool/p-11-1138/


Thanks a lot for that link ! They have great service, and great patience too (my VISA card got rejected, my best friend's too, had to use a colleague MasterCard... seems like we have some problems in France). Freshly received 10 minutes ago in a tiny tiny systainer !

Will try this out soon enough !


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## Reflectology

Valis said:


> The process was to cover the bumper in paint, *solvent base with cellulose clear* mixed in...
> 
> Why you choose cellulose clear?
> HS clear is usable with this technique too?




HS Clear is suitable for the scratch repair as you are not wiping it around but wipe it round, wait a good couple of hrs for it to dry because it needs hardener in it, then try buffing High Solid Clearcoat/Base mix....potential disaster....by all means on the scratch repair as this is more permanent but not the road rash...soz bud but wouldnt even entertain on that method....


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## Chicane

Bookmarked :thumb:


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## mrfixit

Thanks for a great tip,but its bleedin hard work getting the surplus paint/laquer mix off.Well it was for me.:thumb:


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## koi

Great results there, you make the stone chip repair look so easy!


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## mikethefish

Have just carried out a stone chip repair to my Father in Laws Ford Focus front bumper using your method.

He wasn't very impressed with the finish when I had applied the paint but when I had polished the area using Scholl Concepts SO3 and a Spider pad he was beaming as it pretty much looks new.

Tomorrow I will carry out the same to the bonnet which is badly stone chipped.

Thank you for your advice, I look forward to seeing further tips from you.


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## Reflectology

No problem, just glad to help out...

@mrfixit maybe a little bit too much applied at once....


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## BRUNBERG

I've been getting great results doing the road rash repair, nice one mate


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## lc25

Has anyone been able to get any Cellulose ClearCoat ? if so where from as i can't get any for all the tea in china.


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## mm289

Couple of quick questions before I try this out, first time so be patient 

1. Looking to get a 1/10th of solvent basecoat colour matched and use for both a couple of deep scratches then bumper rash. Can I just use clear celly for both these repairs rather than having to buy HS clear for the scratchs?

2. On the scratches, did you brush in the basecoat then lay the clear over the top or did you use a mix like on the stone chip repair?

Cheers bud :thumb:

MM


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## Reflectology

lc25 said:


> Has anyone been able to get any Cellulose ClearCoat ? if so where from as i can't get any for all the tea in china.





mm289 said:


> Couple of quick questions before I try this out, first time so be patient
> 
> Any bodyshop consumables should be able to do this....
> 
> 1. Looking to get a 1/10th of solvent basecoat colour matched and use for both a couple of deep scratches then bumper rash. Can I just use clear celly for both these repairs rather than having to buy HS clear for the scratchs?
> 
> 2. On the scratches, did you brush in the basecoat then lay the clear over the top or did you use a mix like on the stone chip repair?
> 
> Cheers bud :thumb:
> 
> MM


You can use celly for the scratch part but sometimes the paint will pull straight out if it isnt completely cured and you will chase it around, regarding mixing thats what i do as it then has only one drying time....


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## jdquinn

I like the sound of this method. One problem though - it sounds too easy 

I'll definately be giving method 2 a go at some point as the road rash on mine is severe. Now just to get a free day when the wifes away!!


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## Mike k

How much are those blocks? Didnt want to waste their time by calling them and finding out its stupid amounts of money lol


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## AcN

Paid mine £50ish from the dtc.co.uk website  
Used it on a 4m x 2m canvas i had to restore, all i can say is it saved me countless hours of sanding!


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## Reflectology

AcN said:


> Paid mine £50ish from the dtc.co.uk website
> Used it on a 4m x 2m canvas i had to restore, all i can say is it saved me countless hours of sanding!


:thumb:


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## NoobWash

Amazing, Russ.

The shavers on DTC-UK aren't titanium but carbide steel.. so not sure if these will dull faster than titanium or be as affective?

Lou


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## bigslippy

What a great article and thanks for sharing your knowledge ........will try it on me dad's car first:lol:

I have a friend who has a black A3 with a bonnet the looks like the stars at night there are so many chips . Would this method of painting be suitable on that and would I be able to finish polish it with a DA?


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## DetailMyCar

Fantastic guide, really impressed by the Stone chip repairs... I am very tempted to try this for my Dad's BMW as it's a bit of a state on the front end....

I've just tried to find some Cellulose Clear but the one I found says it should be thinned using cellulose thinner? Is that right or would that not be the case if you're mixing it with Paint? 

Thanks in advance though, I'm sure it's not quite as easy as I'm hoping but my Dad wants to get his bumper sprayed anyway so not the end of the world if it doesn't come out perfect


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## Reflectology

no mate dont use any thinners....


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## Kevin OB

Is that right you do not use any thinners in the paint or the Laquer???


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## Reflectology

Kevin OB said:


> Is that right you do not use any thinners in the paint or the Laquer???


correct....the paint will be too thin otherwise...


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## Michael1982

Hi. Sorry to be pedantic, but I'm trying to do this myself. I have the correct paint I need, just need the cellulose. I can't find anything that says exactly that it's "cellulose clear coat", but I find cellulose clear lacquer. Is that the same thing/ok to use for this procedure!?

Also, I don't have or use a machine polisher, is buffing up after rubbing in the paint/cellulose mix by hand going to work? I'm more than prepared and used to hard work!

Thanks in advance for any help!


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## NoobWash

Hi Russ,

How long should I wait before shaving the scratch? does it need to be solid dry because I don't fancy waiting a few hours just for a scratch repair job  I'll be using Halfords metallic paint and lacquer.

Cheers,
Lou


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## 3976

Russ, thanks for this, I'll be giving it a go over the Xmas period (in a garage luckily!).

Could you advise on the ratios of Cellulose to paint? Is it just 1:1?

Recently had my wing mirrors ripped off as well (billet aluminium Audi ones) and they've scratched part of the door in the process, so spotting this guide it timely!

Best regards,

Jamie


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## smithy72

Hi, After a bit of digging I found these

http://www.directbrandtools.com/Detail.asp?qsFullScr=Yes&qsProd=497525&qsCat=33&qsSubCat=136

http://www.anytools.co.uk/Products.aspx?ID=63219&PK=0

Seam lile the best prices. Does anyone know if this is the same thing?


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## mark328

I tried the bumper method with my paint from paints4u:

http://www.paints4u.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=5020

What a nightmare, ended up having to wetsand the whole area to remove the excess paint.

Did i use the wrong paint????


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## NoobWash

Does anyone know if metallic colours can be shaved or will this dull/remove the metallic flake?

I ask because I've heard you can't sand metallic unless covered with a lacquer.

Lou


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## Reflectology

JD said:


> Russ, thanks for this, I'll be giving it a go over the Xmas period (in a garage luckily!).
> 
> Could you advise on the ratios of Cellulose to paint? Is it just 1:1?
> 
> Recently had my wing mirrors ripped off as well (billet aluminium Audi ones) and they've scratched part of the door in the process, so spotting this guide it timely!
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Jamie


yep 1:1



mark328 said:


> I tried the bumper method with my paint from paints4u:
> 
> http://www.paints4u.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=5020
> 
> What a nightmare, ended up having to wetsand the whole area to remove the excess paint.
> 
> Did i use the wrong paint????


could well have mate, i have had a look and it doesnt say what paint it is....you may even have applied too thickly.....



NoobWash said:


> Does anyone know if metallic colours can be shaved or will this dull/remove the metallic flake?
> 
> I ask because I've heard you can't sand metallic unless covered with a lacquer.
> 
> Lou


the metallic is beneath the clear....


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## Reflectology

Michael1982 said:


> Hi. Sorry to be pedantic, but I'm trying to do this myself. I have the correct paint I need, just need the cellulose. I can't find anything that says exactly that it's "cellulose clear coat", but I find cellulose clear lacquer. Is that the same thing/ok to use for this procedure!?
> 
> Also, I don't have or use a machine polisher, is buffing up after rubbing in the paint/cellulose mix by hand going to work? I'm more than prepared and used to hard work!
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help!


cellulose clear laqcuer is clear coat mate....



NoobWash said:


> Hi Russ,
> 
> How long should I wait before shaving the scratch? does it need to be solid dry because I don't fancy waiting a few hours just for a scratch repair job  I'll be using Halfords metallic paint and lacquer.
> 
> Cheers,
> Lou


it does have to be rock hard as it will just pull out if not....if you have a set of halogens pop those on as the heat will speed up the drying....thing is with this technique you can touch it in one day and shave it the next....


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## mikethefish

Spent most of the day doing my wifes 307cc's bonnet and boot and it works but like Russ has said it does need to be dry I like to leave it at least 24 hours. 

I used Scholl S3 gold and a spider pad and use the edge of the pad as it cuts much quicker and don't rub down at all. It is important to put it on in very thin coats and only fill the hole.

One of the best tips I have got from this site thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Reflectology

mikethefish said:


> Spent most of the day doing my wifes 307cc's bonnet and boot and it works but like Russ has said it does need to be dry I like to leave it at least 24 hours.
> 
> I used Scholl S3 gold and a spider pad and use the edge of the pad as it cuts much quicker and don't rub down at all. It is important to put it on in very thin coats and only fill the hole.
> 
> *One of the best tips I have got from this site thanks!*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Cheers bud....


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## NoobWash

Reflectology said:


> the metallic is beneath the clear....


Oh so you only shave the clear? I thought you mixed paint with the clear and shaved the lot.


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## Reflectology

you do....basically with mixing the 2 components together your getting a gloss metallic....a bit like ye old single stage metallics from many a moon ago....


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## NoobWash

Reflectology said:


> you do....basically with mixing the 2 components together your getting a gloss metallic....a bit like ye old single stage metallics from many a moon ago....


(you're gonna kill me ) Ok so by shaving the metallic/clear mix will this dull the flake/paint?

Thanks again for the original guide man, helped so much.

Lou


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## Reflectology

No mate....quite the opposite, it requires next to no buffing if the mix is right and is allowed to dry completely before shaving....


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## Globy

Hi Russ,
Very nice post here:driver:
So let see if I got it, you buy your colour matched ( water-based) and then mixture with Permasolid HS Optimum Clear Coat 8600 ??
Is this?


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## Globy

do you mixtura the clearcoat and the hardener?


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## Reflectology

Globy said:


> Hi Russ,
> Very nice post here:driver:
> So let see if I got it, you buy your colour matched ( water-based) and then mixture with Permasolid HS Optimum Clear Coat 8600 ??
> Is this?


no the colour has to be solvent....otherwise it wont mix....and yep to hardener question....mix the clear as normal and then add the solvent basecoat....this is only for the touch up and shave method though...not the wipe over one as that needs to be cellulose clear....


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## john89

Nice one!

I have some paint from paints4u with the lacquer mixed in, will it do the same job without the cellulose clearcoat used in the 2nd method?

Cheers


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## fjk

Could the stone chip method be used with base and 1k ready to use clearcoat


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## thehulk2002

I have got paint from chipex could I wipe the part of the car that has pepper spray will it work as it has lacquer in it all ready and could I rubb it after dying with P1 polish by hand or not ?


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## Reflectology

john89 said:


> Nice one!
> 
> I have some paint from paints4u with the lacquer mixed in, will it do the same job without the cellulose clearcoat used in the 2nd method?
> 
> Cheers


Not used the paints4u mix but if it has clear already in the base then i dont see why not....



fjk said:


> Could the stone chip method be used with base and 1k ready to use clearcoat


the same....



thehulk2002 said:


> I have got paint from chipex could I wipe the part of the car that has pepper spray will it work as it has lacquer in it all ready and could I rubb it after dying with P1 polish by hand or not ?


as above but i have tried the chipex stuff before and wasnt overly impressed....

I have a Punto to post up when I get a minute that had a couple of repairs done to that....keep an eye out for it....


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## Globy

Reflectology said:


> no the colour has to be solvent....otherwise it wont mix....and yep to hardener question....mix the clear as normal and then add the solvent basecoat....this is only for the touch up and shave method though...not the wipe over one as that needs to be cellulose clear....


Thanks!
So the wipe over method, you mix the colour (solvent) + hardener + cellulose clear coat?


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## Reflectology

there is no hardener....just solvent base and cellulose clear....


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## creative1

Reflectology said:


> there is no hardener....just solvent base and cellulose clear....


Also had a tin of colour mixed from paint4u to try dealing with some stone chips. The paint came with 10% laquer premixed. I applied it with a toothpick, however, when it dried to a dull colour. Do i need to mix more laquer into the paint or will the dullness brighten up once its been polished?


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## creative1

Amazig results...... Got to give this a go. 

A few questions:

On the bumper repair, what did you do to prepare thhe surface (wet sand before applying the paint)? 
If my paint only has 10% laquer, would this make a difference if i apply it to the bumper?
How long should it be left to dry before cuting or polishing?
Is Megs 205 with a Orange pad on a DA okfor polishing this up?


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## creative1

Any comments - pls. 

1. On the bumper repair, what did you do to prepare the surface (wet sand before applying the paint)?
2. If my paint only has 10% lacquer, would this make a difference if i apply it to the bumper? 
3. Or do i need to add more (say 40ml lacquer in total to 100ml paint?)
4. How long should it be left to dry before cuting or polishing?
5. Is Megs 205 with a Orange pad on a DA okfor polishing this up?
6. Could the bumper method be used for fine scratches also? If yes, do i need to wet sand afterwards?


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## david_h

I worked on the front end stone chips of my car last week.

The actual repairs were very good, this guide was invaluable, thanks.

The bad news is the paint match from "paints for u" was awful, way too dark. I'm tempted to mail them back with a complaint. I've had to remove the paint in some areas using thinners, I will then try another shop to see if they can match estoril blue.

I hate water based paints!


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## Reflectology

creative1 said:


> Any comments - pls.
> 
> 1. On the bumper repair, what did you do to prepare the surface (wet sand before applying the paint)?
> 2. If my paint only has 10% lacquer, would this make a difference if i apply it to the bumper?
> 3. Or do i need to add more (say 40ml lacquer in total to 100ml paint?)
> 4. How long should it be left to dry before cuting or polishing?
> 5. Is Megs 205 with a Orange pad on a DA okfor polishing this up?
> 6. Could the bumper method be used for fine scratches also? If yes, do i need to wet sand afterwards?


The prep should be nothing more than a thorough wipe over with ipa to remove any wax or other dirt from the road rash or chips....pad and polish choice is totally up to you....the paint should be mixed 1:1 so if thats 10 ml colour it should be 10 ml clear....



david_h said:


> I worked on the front end stone chips of my car last week.
> 
> The actual repairs were very good, this guide was invaluable, thanks.
> 
> The bad news is the paint match from "paints for u" was awful, way too dark. I'm tempted to mail them back with a complaint. I've had to remove the paint in some areas using thinners, I will then try another shop to see if they can match estoril blue.
> 
> I hate water based paints!


Thanks for the feedback...glad it served some help...regarding the paint Estoril Blue would appear darker in the chips as this is down to light that surrounds it and the way the paint sits in the chip instead of flowing....

water based paint?


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## creative1

Reflectology said:


> The prep should be nothing more than a thorough wipe over with ipa to remove any wax or other dirt from the road rash or chips....pad and polish choice is totally up to you....the paint should be mixed 1:1 so if thats 10 ml colour it should be 10
> 
> water based paint?


damn. I tried with 10% lacquer mix on a bottom part of bumper. Do I need to polish out and redo. Or can I just go over it with the right mix?


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## creative1

Is there a different between lacquer frompaints4u and cellulose clear coat?


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## ercapoccia

Are nitrocellulose and cellulose laquer the same? I'm trying to buy it locally, but i'm not sure about the translation.


----------



## Pedro.Malheiro

I bought a scratch master kit from paint4u for fix some scratches and stone chips. 

Can i use only de color or should I use both, or can I mix both? 

best regards


----------



## creative1

I also find the paint is very sticky and hardens very quickly when rubbing over the bumper. Is this because of the paint from paints4u? Will mixing in more lacquer help or increase the stickiness ? I assume the paint is water based due to legislation which may also be cause of the problem. 

Any advice?


----------



## creative1

Did anyone else find the paint goes on very thick and dries too quickly to spread around evenly?


----------



## Reflectology

the clearcoat and paint mix will be thick and dry quiclky...thats the whole idea of using cellulose....its rapid and easier to buff off than 2k when you wipe it on....


----------



## mark328

Reflectology said:


> the clearcoat and paint mix will be thick and dry quiclky...thats the whole idea of using cellulose....its rapid and easier to buff off than 2k when you wipe it on....


Bit confused on the reply, i emailed paints4u and asked them if my 100ml touch up tin ( with lacquer mixed in ) was solvent bascoat with Cellusoe clear, they replied yes, if thats true why does is it so sticky/thick and virtually impossible to spread around!!!!

Got loads of chips to fill but there is no way in hell that it will machine off with my Solvent Basecoat with Cellouse clear!

Unless of course Paints4u dont put much lacquer in ( ie 90% Basecoat/10% Lacquer).

If that is the case what should I buy to add to my 100ml touch up tin?

Appreciate the help :thumb:


----------



## mark328

Bump :thumb:


----------



## Reflectology

it does sound a little too thick but i cant comment on paints4u mixes mate, their mixes may be better suited to the shave method....try and find a local body shop paint supplier....buy 10th litre of solvent base and some cellulose clear....the clear will set you back around £15 for a litre as most will only sell in a litre....the paint itself should be no more than £7-8....i know the clear is far far too much for what you need but still cheaper than painting....


----------



## markbob917

where can i get cellulose clearcoat from though? google search doesnt come up with anything much


----------



## markbob917

is this cellulose clearcoat? http://auto-paint.co.uk/carpaint/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=71


----------



## mark328

markbob917 said:


> is this cellulose clearcoat? http://auto-paint.co.uk/carpaint/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=71


Looks ok, sure Russ will be along to help :thumb:


----------



## mark328

This looks like it, but no mention of Russ mixing it 1:1 with Cellulose Thinners?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clear-Lac..._Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item5acfedba3c


----------



## markbob917

im assuming it would work with other colours? 
basically then if i got my paint from dealer (touch up stick or pot) and mixed that with the clearcoat i mentioned above or mark328 mentioned 50:50 and then rubbed on allow to dry (?) then using a polish and pad (anyone able to suggest the hex logic version of the spider pad??? and an alternative to the farecla that would work?) take the excess off even using a de nibber if required and boom roberts your father brother and such like??


----------



## creative1

I ordered extra lacquer which i was told was cellullose from paints4u and mixed 50:50 with the solvent touch up paint. Still very stick and impossible to spread.


----------



## Focusaddict

creative1 said:


> I ordered extra lacquer which i was told was cellullose from paints4u and mixed 50:50 with the solvent touch up paint. Still very stick and impossible to spread.


Might need a bit of thinner, not a lot but just enough to keep it moving.


----------



## Reflectology

shouldnt need thinner with cellulose....as i said cant comment on their paint....maybe try a named brand....will post a brand name up that i use tomorrow....


----------



## Kriminal

Quick question regarding using the de-nibber. Do you use much, if any pressure when using it?

It's just that I've ordered one, and don't want to find out the hard way  :thumb:


----------



## markbob917

anyone been able to find cellulose clear? 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clear-Lac..._Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item5ae25ba493
being in work i cant question them if this is 100% cellulose clear


----------



## VTec Junkie

Hi Russ
Just wanted to know, I have the original Honda pearl paint which i assume is already pearlescent (shiny/metallic). Can I use that without mixing in the clear. The paint is a good texture (not so thick or thin) and dries fairly quickly when i wiped it on a tested panel. Also, will it buff off with a Yellow Hex-Logic Pad using Menz 203 or 106. 
I feel the quality of the Honda paint is fantastic and it matches my car spot on, it even has the correct shine but I am worried about not being able to buff it off after wiping it on. I have been told that I have to apply the paint to each white dot, then wet sand before finishing with the Menz but I feel your method would be easier and quicker.
Can all paint types be buffed off??
Please help as my car is full of Road Rash!!
THANKS!!


----------



## The Cueball

Kriminal said:


> Quick question regarding using the de-nibber. Do you use much, if any pressure when using it?
> 
> It's just that I've ordered one, and don't want to find out the hard way  :thumb:


I'll try and explain how I used it...

1) wrap the cord around your fingers so that it's nice and tight and the de Nibber is between your thumb and forefinger

2) rest the de Nibber on the paint with the pressure on the corded side of it

3) gently lay the sharp end onto the paintwork

4) keeping the pressure on the corded end and using the angle that the cord on the paint creates, gentle move it across the paint to shave

5) go over the area from a few different angles... (eg a clock face 12, 3, 6, 9, 12)

not sure if thats the right or best way, but it's how I worked it...

:thumb:


----------



## Reflectology

VTec Junkie said:


> Hi Russ
> Just wanted to know, I have the original Honda pearl paint which i assume is already pearlescent (shiny/metallic). Can I use that without mixing in the clear. The paint is a good texture (not so thick or thin) and dries fairly quickly when i wiped it on a tested panel. Also, will it buff off with a Yellow Hex-Logic Pad using Menz 203 or 106.
> I feel the quality of the Honda paint is fantastic and it matches my car spot on, it even has the correct shine but I am worried about not being able to buff it off after wiping it on. I have been told that I have to apply the paint to each white dot, then wet sand before finishing with the Menz but I feel your method would be easier and quicker.
> Can all paint types be buffed off??
> Please help as my car is full of Road Rash!!
> THANKS!!


I have had success with it all mixed in with the clear but with it being 3 stages of paint no gaurantee of results can be expected...the question about buffing is a general one tbh and the paint whether it be 2 or 3 stages mixed in should buff off just as effectively...I have tried the touch the white spots in first then apply the pearl and then clear, sometimes you may get success with that method on these colour types but expect it to be a little visible.......the pearl is basically see through and you will see more of the white base which in truth wouldnt look a million miles away....give it a go mate but just be careful with the machine....



The Cueball said:


> I'll try and explain how I used it...
> 
> 1) wrap the cord around your fingers so that it's nice and tight and the de Nibber is between your thumb and forefinger
> 
> 2) rest the de Nibber on the paint with the pressure on the corded side of it
> 
> 3) gently lay the sharp end onto the paintwork
> 
> 4) keeping the pressure on the corded end and using the angle that the cord on the paint creates, gentle move it across the paint to shave
> 
> 5) go over the area from a few different angles... (eg a clock face 12, 3, 6, 9, 12)
> 
> not sure if thats the right or best way, but it's how I worked it...
> 
> :thumb:


Spot on....just one more thing to add though is dont go straight for the base of the touch up as this will grip and may pull the paint out if its not fully cured but worst case scenario you could end up catching an edge....all you need to do is just slightly reduce from the surface....


----------



## VTec Junkie

*Cellulose Clearcoat*

Hi Russ
Please post a link for this Cellulose Clearcoat for method 2..........Please, please, please!!


----------



## VTec Junkie

*Cellulose Clearcoat*

Cant seem to find it!! Dont want to get the wrong one as my Honda Paint was expensive as it is!!
Please Help!!


----------



## Reflectology

without searching too hard this was the first link i came to...lechler is a decent paint as well but cant speak for the company themselves it is upto you to put your trust in them....http://www.fishermotorfactors.co.uk/paint/lacquers


----------



## VTec Junkie

Thanks Russ. 
ClearCoat purchased!!
Your a Star!!
Cheers. 
Saf.


----------



## afcbob

Am away to try this on my scratch is this what am looking for and just mix both together

http://www.paints4u.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=6930


----------



## VenomUK

*Gloucester/Bristol Areas*

Does anyone on here provide this service or touch ups and rub-ins around the Gloucester area or Bristol?

My bonnet and bumper is stone chipped and dont fancy a full front end respray


----------



## squiggs

VenomUK said:


> Does anyone on here provide this service or touch ups and rub-ins around the Gloucester area or Bristol?
> 
> My bonnet and bumper is stone chipped and dont fancy a full front end respray


To be honest to do chips properly is really a DIY labour of love. 
Depending on how many you've got it could take someone as long to do the chips to a good standard as it would to do a respray. 
So the labour and therefore the overall cost wouldn't be that different.


----------



## VenomUK

squiggs said:


> To be honest to do chips properly is really a DIY labour of love.
> Depending on how many you've got it could take someone as long to do the chips to a good standard as it would to do a respray.
> So the labour and therefore the overall cost wouldn't be that different.


OK then thanks, I guess I'll give it ago then and if I **** up then can still get it resprayed then. Its always fixable.


----------



## afcbob

afcbob said:


> Am away to try this on my scratch is this what am looking for and just mix both together
> 
> http://www.paints4u.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=6930


Anyone help with this is it the stuff i need and mix both together


----------



## toastyhamster

I went for the 100ml p4u tin as it's pre-mixed....
Anyway - has anybody had any success with this over a larger area than a stone chip? My other halfs Tossa Blue Polo had some pretty big chips out of the paint where she dropped the pushchair onto the rear bumper and some even bigger ones on the front bumper when she scraped a car park barrier. I did the smaller marks and they came out quite well but the bigger ones I found it impossible to get an even colour with the metallic with a brush, so although they're now better it's a visible touch up rather than an almost invisible one. Would have been easy with a non-metallic.
Got a small one on my Phantom Black Audi to do nxt but that's a couple of small thin scratches so I'm fairly confident with that.


----------



## cockney123

would this work picked up panther black touch-up from fords which includes top coat can i mix up a tea spoon of each together and try it on a small area then polish it up(basically a coward)


----------



## Reflectology

****ney123 said:


> would this work picked up panther black touch-up from fords which includes top coat can i mix up a tea spoon of each together and try it on a small area then polish it up(basically a coward)


in a word....yep....for the cut method but not tried it on the road rash affect....


----------



## AllanF

Brilliant article! never used the paint shaver, bought one after reading this, now i can't stop using it! cheers


----------



## Maxwell1

Might be a silly question but I'm a novice and don't have a machine polisher. Could I do the stone chip paint wipe method and then use an old tri foam pad to remove the excess? Ta.


----------



## andycap

Hi Russ, 2 great tips there!

Ive read the whole lot but i'm still slightly confused bud about a couple of things.

Technique 2: Rubbing Paint into road rash - Just simply Solvent Base mixed 50:50 with Cellulose Clear? Is this correct?

Technique 1: Scratch Repair (this is where im struggling a bit) - Solvent Base mixed with Cellulose Clear... Does a hardener need to be applied to the Clear? If so is it mixed with the Clear before mixing with the Base or all at once?

Really struggling with the next bit:


> if the car is non metallic then a straight colour in either high solid or cellulose can be mixed for me, I tend to go for the HS as this has a better cutting surface as it flows a little easier, however I do get cellulose mixed up as well for other methods of scratch repair, this is also the case with metallics, the colour is solvent basecoat and the clearcoat is HS and Cellulose, obviously hardener has to be present for the HS.


Can you explain what HS (High Solid) is?
Is HS a Base Coat or a Clear Coat, or is it something you ADD to a Base Coat or Clear Coat? And does it really make much difference?

I Have Halogen lamps and also I have an Infra Red lamp, could leaving a repair under an Infra Red lamp speed up the process significantly? Any idea how long a scratch repair would need untill it is cut back? And under lamp how long roughly would a road rash repair need untill it was mopped off?

Cheers Russ


----------



## Reflectology

andycap said:


> Hi Russ, 2 great tips there!
> 
> Ive read the whole lot but i'm still slightly confused bud about a couple of things.
> 
> Technique 2: Rubbing Paint into road rash - Just simply Solvent Base mixed 50:50 with Cellulose Clear? Is this correct?
> 
> Technique 1: Scratch Repair (this is where im struggling a bit) - Solvent Base mixed with Cellulose Clear... Does a hardener need to be applied to the Clear? If so is it mixed with the Clear before mixing with the Base or all at once?
> 
> Really struggling with the next bit:
> 
> Can you explain what HS (High Solid) is?
> Is HS a Base Coat or a Clear Coat, or is it something you ADD to a Base Coat or Clear Coat? And does it really make much difference?
> 
> I Have Halogen lamps and also I have an Infra Red lamp, could leaving a repair under an Infra Red lamp speed up the process significantly? Any idea how long a scratch repair would need untill it is cut back? And under lamp how long roughly would a road rash repair need untill it was mopped off?
> 
> Cheers Russ


Hi mate the 50 50 mix is solvent base and cellulose clearcoat....dont apply too thickly or it will just take an eternity to remove....the cut method is 2 pack clearcoat which is the HS i mentioned....it does need either force drying or as its a home diy job you could touch in everyday until you are satisfied that the scratch is covered and there is enough to removed....

so technique 1....HS Clear and technique 2 cellulose clear...

HTH

I will go through the guide when i have a minute to tidy it up a bit and explain things a little more in depth....


----------



## andycap

Cheers Russ. Great guide m8 but ur obviously from a paint background think a few peeps (inc me) r trying 2 get our head around a couple of bits. Cheers for responding 2 my questions.

Mart


----------



## CrouchingWayne

Hi mate,

When getting the pot of paint for the second technique do you get the paint mixed then add the cellulose clear yourself or do you get it all mixed by the supplier?

Cheers


----------



## Reflectology

CrouchingWayne said:


> Hi mate,
> 
> When getting the pot of paint for the second technique do you get the paint mixed then add the cellulose clear yourself or do you get it all mixed by the supplier?
> 
> Cheers


add the cellulose yourself mate....


----------



## fulcrumer

Sorry I am still a bit confused.

Is it ok to use 2k (thought solvents where illegal now) on water based metallic paint (BMW Space Grey)

On the first cut method - is it basecoat plus 2 HS at 50/50 - I assume you mix the hardener in at the same time - if so at what ratio.

On the second method I assume I can simply mix waterbased based metallic paint and 1k rather than 2k lacquer.

Sorry for being dum


----------



## Reflectology

fulcrumer said:


> Sorry I am still a bit confused.
> 
> Is it ok to use 2k (thought solvents where illegal now) on water based metallic paint (BMW Space Grey)
> 
> On the first cut method - is it basecoat plus 2 HS at 50/50 - I assume you mix the hardener in at the same time - if so at what ratio.
> 
> On the second method I assume I can simply mix waterbased based metallic paint and 1k rather than 2k lacquer.
> 
> Sorry for being dum


2k Clearcoat is a solvent mate and is used throughout bodyshops worldwide....

the basecoat you need solvent basecoat not water based as they just wont mix....

get a 10 of basecoat and a 10th of 1k clearcoat for the wipe on method and mix together....

if you are using the touch up and cut method remove some base from the tin and drop the relative 2.1 paint clearcoat mixin ensuring that the clear has a spot of hardener in it...

makes me laugh a bit when people say solvent paints are illegal...in a way they are right but for what we are doing here they are not....smart repairers etc may or may not still use them but its for touch up not for airborne use....if they were illegal then Halfords would be sort of screwed with all the solvent aerosol and touch ups they have there....

its the disposal that is the main concern and should be disposed of by a recognised company....

HTH


----------



## david_pupu

nice guide russ, 

please make it more detail with picture or video


----------



## Reflectology

I dont do this on a day to day basis mate and posted this purely as a DIY for people to try out for their own satisfaction....


----------



## ianrobbo1

I've read this thread through from start to finish, it's on board now, thanks for starting the thread, and answering all the questions, :thumb:


----------



## Reflectology

Ok due to a few being a little confused about what paint is for what i will clear it up....but in layman's terms....

For the cut and shave method High Solid or 2K is to be used with the relevant hardener as this leaves a harder surface for the shave or cut...
Dealership touch ups are also suitable for this method....

For the wipe in method cellulose clearcoat is used as its easier to buff off but permanent enough to stay within the chip or road rash area....

In both cases solvent basecoat should be used *not* water based....

HTH


----------



## gttjames

sorry to add more questions to this... 

method 1 you just build layers up - then shave with the blade. Afterwards polish it up or will it need wet sanding? And is this suitable for shaving

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TITANIUM-..._RocksFossils_Minerals_EH&hash=item589ca8cf0a

2nd method -
clean up etc etc, then apply paint on a cloth to all affected chipped areas - will the one pass be enough, or if any chips still visible do another pass of paint on the cloth?

Then just polish it all - and polishing will take all the smeared paint off from the bumper? or will it need wetsanding

cheers


----------



## Ryboy_23

Cheers for that pal great help


----------



## TTS-Dave

Think i might have to give this a go. Thanks for the guide.


----------



## pharmed

Wow you are a star for answering all the questions and posting this excellent guide!


----------



## vapourblastuk

great info !


----------



## RDB85

Hi Russ,

Great guide thanks. I've touched up a front bumper yesterday on a moon dust silver fiesta with touch up paint. Do I need to buy clear coat as the paint has none in it. I've also bought some 3M 2000 wet n dry and some t cut.

It's quite a deep scratch from a scuff with a brick wall.

Cheers

Rob


----------



## Lee-D88

Ok so how does this sound

I want to remove road rash from the front end of my bonnet, so if i purchase

http://auto-paint.co.uk/carpaint/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=199

in colour 20R (sapphire black) same as my car
and

http://auto-paint.co.uk/carpaint/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=71

Mix the 80ml colour pot with 80ml of the above lacquer, apply some to a lint free cloth and rub over the road rash as thinly as possible, allow to dry for an hour. then machine polish off using
Orange hex-logic and M105
then finish using 
White hex logic and M205
then use a LSP does that sound right ? want to do it this weekend, cheers in advance


----------



## pld118

*Hiding Sill Scuffs*









Can this type of injury be 'masked' and eradicated by detailing techniques similar to the bonnet stone chips ( "...The process was to cover the bumper in paint, solvent base with cellulose clear mixed in....it is applied with a lint free cloth and left to dry....the heavier stone chips were touched in and cut as well....")...

(or)

Would these marks require some repainting/ localised 'smart repair?

Please/ thanks


----------



## S999srk

This is an awesome guide indeed. I will be trying the second method with a p4u touch up kit I purchased before. The lacquer they supply with the scratch master kit is an acrylic lacquer, will this be acceptable?
Any advice would be great.


----------



## StevieBoy2000

Reflectology said:


> it does have to be rock hard as it will just pull out if not....if you have a set of halogens pop those on as the heat will speed up the drying....thing is with this technique you can touch it in one day and shave it the next....


I bought a Festool LZK-HM paint scraper and am pretty pleased with it so far, however I have had paint in some chips pull out when scraping. Normally only on small shallow chips. Now admittedly I did only leave the paint to dry naturally and for 24 hours - now reading this it looks like I didn't leave it long enough, what sort of time should I leave it to cure before scraping?


----------



## bluetonic

Just tried the road rash method 2 and got good results.

Firstly I cannot comment on using any other paints than the ones I used! Seems its very mixed on what you can buy.

I got the following from Fisher Motor factors:

100ml Industrial Basecoat - Any Colour 
Colour details:
2008 BMW Jerez Black. BMW Colour code A73	FMFBC100-1
1lt Acrifan 1k Clear lacquer LEC/01230

I also got some pots and mixers and the whole lot came to about the same as your normal paints4U or Chipex type kits, but I got whole 1Ltr of clear (which i will use with my airbrush at sometime anyway).

So far I've followed the method as detailed in the first post. 

On the safe side I avoided the front bumper and worked on some gravel rash my M3 has at the bottom of the rear wheel arch. Cleaned with IPA, wiped on thin and left to dry. I used S3 and my Megs DA to buff it off and it looks good. 

If you look very close you can still see a little pitting but from stood up its done a very good job. I may give it another go before finishing with wax but only because I'm a bit of a perfectionist. 

For £30 and 30 min of worry (will it work? will it come off?) I've now got a 100ml of repair paint and a ltr of clear which is the same price as the BMW 12ml touch up kits!!!

Very happy.

Will post a picture once I try it on a bigger section.


----------



## Tc24

The method itself looks simple enough and the results are decent.



bluetonic said:


> Just tried the road rash method 2 and got good results.
> 
> Firstly I cannot comment on using any other paints than the ones I used! Seems its very mixed on what you can buy.
> 
> I got the following from Fisher Motor factors:
> 
> 100ml Industrial Basecoat - Any Colour
> Colour details:
> 2008 BMW Jerez Black. BMW Colour code A73	FMFBC100-1
> 1lt Acrifan 1k Clear lacquer LEC/01230
> 
> I also got some pots and mixers and the whole lot came to about the same as your normal paints4U or Chipex type kits, but I got whole 1Ltr of clear (which i will use with my airbrush at sometime anyway).
> 
> So far I've followed the method as detailed in the first post.
> 
> On the safe side I avoided the front bumper and worked on some gravel rash my M3 has at the bottom of the rear wheel arch. Cleaned with IPA, wiped on thin and left to dry. I used S3 and my Megs DA to buff it off and it looks good.
> 
> If you look very close you can still see a little pitting but from stood up its done a very good job. I may give it another go before finishing with wax but only because I'm a bit of a perfectionist.
> 
> For £30 and 30 min of worry (will it work? will it come off?) I've now got a 100ml of repair paint and a ltr of clear which is the same price as the BMW 12ml touch up kits!!!
> 
> Very happy.
> 
> Will post a picture once I try it on a bigger section.


Seems like things have gone ok for you, intrigued to see the pics once you've had chance to do some more. Looking on Fishers site and have found what I believe to be the same paint. How far did 100ml go? Planning on ordering some in nighthawk black but need to make sure I have enough to do a bonnet


----------



## bluetonic

As promised.

M3 was suffering from road rash as well as a few nasty chips.










Cleaned up with clay and IPA wash. Applied a thin coat of mixed paint.
Stood back terrified!!









Polished off with Scholl S3 and a old Megs firm pad (which will get VERY mucky).









I could see how this could go very wrong if you have the wrong paint or plaster it on too thick. It took 2 passes to get the stuff back off but I'm pleased with the result.

Not perfect but a massive improvement. I think with a few applications the chips will start to be less obvious.

Felt happy so finished her off with a quick detail and took some interesting photos.... 2 faces or a vase?










The 100ml should last ages!! I used 25ml to 25ml laquer to do the whole front bumper and have lots left over from that mix. Like I say you only need a thin wipe or you will be polishing for hours.


----------



## Tc24

bluetonic said:


> As promised.
> 
> M3 was suffering from road rash as well as a few nasty chips.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned up with clay and IPA wash. Applied a thin coat of mixed paint.
> Stood back terrified!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polished off with Scholl S3 and a old Megs firm pad (which will get VERY mucky).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could see how this could go very wrong if you have the wrong paint or plaster it on too thick. It took 2 passes to get the stuff back off but I'm pleased with the result.
> 
> Not perfect but a massive improvement. I think with a few applications the chips will start to be less obvious.
> 
> Felt happy so finished her off with a quick detail and took some interesting photos.... 2 faces or a vase?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 100ml should last ages!! I used 25ml to 25ml laquer to do the whole front bumper and have lots left over from that mix. Like I say you only need a thin wipe or you will be polishing for hours.


Brilliant results - glad to know you used so little paint, means I'm going to get 100ml ordered over the weekend. Already have the IPA so fingers crossed it all arrives fastish and I can give it a crack.

Will also post up results once done


----------



## Reflectology

Sorry ive not been on guys just been stupidly busy.

Great result there fella and the exact clear lacquer i use, it seems you have the knack for it and as you rightly say the paint will last a while.


----------



## J77ONO

Great Guide


----------



## GSiFan

My Vectra could do with some of this type of treatment.  I think I'll gear up and give it a try. I haven't much to lose, to be honest! 

THANK YOU ALL! :thumb:

Paul


----------



## nas2000

Love this guide, and great i could find nitro-cellulose clear paint over here in germany! Its mostly used for guittares and not for cars but i think its the mix that makes it so useable as stone chip remover! 

Thank you so much Russ


----------



## batt-man

First-time poster but long-time lurker.. 

A great guide and write-up - thanks to the OP; i've used the "scrape the excess off" method loads of time and with a bit of practice works really well; i learnt to do this on my first car an old ford cortina "many" years ago...

One difference is that nowadays i personally i use a bahco mini-scraper; way cheaper than those festool lumps of carbide and much easier imho to control. Try googling "bahco 625 scraper" should be around 15 quid. maybe add a pear shaped blade as well for a bit of safety (nice and rounded at each end so no digging a corner in)...

Cheers
Batt...


----------



## moss99

great guide, what cloth / applicator was used in the wipe on method ? , I got some lint free cloths which seemed dusty , they looked nothing at all like what he used ..


----------



## moss99

Anyone got a link to suitable cloth for this ??


----------



## Daz4vxr

Hi fella i dont have a machine polisher can i hand polish/buff second method


----------



## VenomUK

Silly question but is Cellulose clear a type of clear coat? Are most/all modern clear coats this type of stuff and where is the best place to get it from please?


----------



## Matty77

The Cueball said:


> I'll try and explain how I used it...
> 
> 1) wrap the cord around your fingers so that it's nice and tight and the de Nibber is between your thumb and forefinger
> 
> 2) rest the de Nibber on the paint with the pressure on the corded side of it
> 
> 3) gently lay the sharp end onto the paintwork
> 
> 4) keeping the pressure on the corded end and using the angle that the cord on the paint creates, gentle move it across the paint to shave
> 
> 5) go over the area from a few different angles... (eg a clock face 12, 3, 6, 9, 12)
> 
> not sure if thats the right or best way, but it's how I worked it...
> 
> :thumb:


Great tip! Thanks :thumb:


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## Matty77

*Shim mask for saver paint shaving?*



Reflectology said:


> ...being careful not to snag the edge of the block on the surrounding paint area, this will result in slight scratches which should polish out in the same repair polishing period, unfortunately some of these snags have caused deeper damage which then need either repairing or indeed wet sanding...


I just found this 'Shim-Mask' product which might be of interest to those of you who would like to give the paint shaving technique a go but are too worried about accidentally snagging the clearcoat with the block and creating more work 

It would also work when wet sanding localised areas. Hmm, I might just might have to invest in one of these


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## madeinsheffield

Hi all

has anyone tried the Chipex kit, looks quite straightforward to use but I would appreciate any real feedback.


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## shakey85

madeinsheffield said:


> Hi all
> 
> has anyone tried the Chipex kit, looks quite straightforward to use but I would appreciate any real feedback.


Got it and used it.
Firstly I will say the colour match is excellent, so no problems or complaints there
On very very shallow chips the kit I found pretty much got rid of them in that they could hardly been seen from any distance.

On deeper chips I found that the kit basically masks the chips. What it does is effectively colour in the chip. The depth of the chip is reduced slightly as you have added pain in there however from close distance it is clearly visable.
If you are standing and looking, at the bonnet for example, you cannot see the chips at all, paint looks completely flawless. So the kit will dramatically improve the look of the stone chips but in my experience, and I may have used it wrongly, it will not get rid of them. Multiple layers will continue to reduce the depth very very slightly each time (after doing 3 layers and seeing how slow it was I didnt bother)

Furthermore if you have a lot of stone then it takes aaaaaaages and I mean aaaaaaages.

Overall, I was pleased I got the kit. Made my bonnet look much much better. Would I do it again......for the odd chip, yes. If your bonnet is scattered, get a respray


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## Caracul

Matty77 said:


> I just found this 'Shim-Mask' product which might be of interest to those of you who would like to give the paint shaving technique a go but are too worried about accidentally snagging the clearcoat with the block and creating more work
> 
> It would also work when wet sanding localised areas. Hmm, I might just might have to invest in one of these


Just watched the video matty. Looks good. Have you tried one yet?


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## aymen_a22

This method looks really good but I am confused with whether lacquer should be used or not?

I guess the wax should provide a good enough protective layer for the small spots.


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## rhinoman

How long should the cellulose road rash repair be left to dry before polishing off?


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## rockhopper

Realise this thread has been around for a good while now but can't anyone confirm that this paint and laquer is suitable? http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/350851787228


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## rockhopper

rhinoman said:


> How long should the cellulose road rash repair be left to dry before polishing off?


As above, anyone who's done this what's the time it should be left as I imagine it's quite critical?


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## Caracul

Just tried this today for the first time. I had had the paint for a while, and just waiting for a nice day.

The paint I got was from the dealer, and came in 2 15ml pots, one of colour and the other the lacquer. Mixed them together and touched in a deep scratch a while ago.

Today, I set up a test area and rubbed on with a cloth. You realise if you put too much on as it's obvious after that there are stubborn areas that show left over paint. It does work, but deeper holes do need a bit of pre treatment.

For bigger chips, like several have said before, leave plenty of time after filling in (24hours) and if they are really big, you may need to apply a coat, comes back the next day, apply a coat, come back the next day... Until flush or slightly raised.

For the actual road rash, I didn't leave very long at all... Just long enough to make sure it was dry. Seemed to work ok, and the thought process was that if they are small holes, it'll be less likely to pull the new paint out of them. I did takes some pictures but I have yet to check the quality.


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## rockhopper

I tried this on my bumper, mixed the paint and lacquer 50/50 and started to wipe on with a cloth, however I tried it spreading it thick or thin the paint wouldn't cover the road rash, I can only think it's because the marks have not really got any depth to them like a stone chip on the bonnet so the paint has no where to sit?


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## veloz

*clear coat?*

ok i have been reading all these post and have decided to give it a try. just ordered my metallic paint and the clear coat. In the US i couldnt find the "cellulose" clear - which is nothing else but acrylic clear - instead i ordered urethane clear coat plus the mixed solvent based paint. the acrylic clear coat according to the supplier was old technology and has been replaced with other more advanced systems - aka urethane...

so my questions was - will the urethane clear coat work the same as the acrylic "cellulose" coat?


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## b21playa

Tried this on the C-pillar on my car and came up fantastic

Thanks Russ


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## Guest

madeinsheffield said:


> Hi all
> 
> has anyone tried the Chipex kit, looks quite straightforward to use but I would appreciate any real feedback.


It's certainly nowhere near as straight forward as their video suggests. Yes, the colour match is good but on deep chips you can still see them. I spent 8 days trying to rectify 2 deep bonnet chips and still couldn't get them to a satisfactory finish.

A few light chips, it's ok but, as has been said, it can take ages. I ended up having the chips professionally repaired.


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## veloz

veloz said:


> ok i have been reading all these post and have decided to give it a try. just ordered my metallic paint and the clear coat. In the US i couldnt find the "cellulose" clear - which is nothing else but acrylic clear - instead i ordered urethane clear coat plus the mixed solvent based paint. the acrylic clear coat according to the supplier was old technology and has been replaced with other more advanced systems - aka urethane...
> 
> so my questions was - will the urethane clear coat work the same as the acrylic "cellulose" coat?


i tried it last nite on my front bumper and I must say I am astonished at the results. it literary covered pretty much all the road rash I had. and the shine is almost better than the rest of the car!!!
i used the following:
1) sherwin williams ATX auto paint-mixed at shop(metallic blue)
2) sherwin williams ATX Urethane clear
3) meguiars Compound polish
4) 8" foam pad on orbital

worked on it for about 1 hr solid and did my entire front bumper. couldnt take pics bc it was dark outside, but il post some today.


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## antny

Great thread but i was curious to know (on deep scratches) is it necessary to fill with bondo or another such product first or is this an unnecessary step. Also, I recently learned a technique for levelling using one sided blades (rounded of at the edges and strips of tape at the edges so the middle of the blade is exposed, then step by step, level the touch up paint by removing layers of tape and then changing the tape, ie duct tape, then electrical tape then masking tape. 3 strips then 2 then one, if you know what i mean. then all that is left is around .038 mm of perfectly level touch up paint to be wet sanded. Obviously these results would only be achieved by a professional so I was wondering if varying grades of wet sanding could be used between each step aswell. Is this something you would recommend. (the whole process I mean). I would like to know because I am preparing to try and tidy up a key scratch on a friends car ( across both doors) and she cannot afford a respray (time and effort is not a factor) but I would like to Improve it for her a little bit. Just to clarify, the cost of a respray would probably be as much or more than the car is worth


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## veloz

you can try filling the deep scratch with glazing putty first, then wiping the excess before it dries with a rag and acetone leaving behind the filled scratch, then you can use a touch up paint brush to cover the putty. once all that is dried, you can do the process i described above if needed...


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## Greboth

Couple of scratches and stone chips I want to fill in on my car. Following the 50/50 method but I just want to check this is right before I order.
Paint: http://www.fishermotorfactors.co.uk/paint/touch-up-paint/100ml-industrial-basecoat-any-colour
Clearcoat: http://www.fishermotorfactors.co.uk/paint/lacquers/1lt-acrifan-1k-clear-lacquer


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## xzaros

As you can see i have small specks and some bigger chips, im thinking of doing this:


Clean all with IPA
build up layers on the bigger chips until flush or above
Wipe paint on using technique 2 above
Wet sand down the bigger chips and slightly all over
Buff using feracla compound liquid and compound head

Would this work?


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## veloz

xzaros said:


> As you can see i have small specks and some bigger chips, im thinking of doing this:
> 
> 
> Clean all with IPA
> build up layers on the bigger chips until flush or above
> Wipe paint on using technique 2 above
> Wet sand down the bigger chips and slightly all over
> Buff using feracla compound liquid and compound head
> 
> Would this work?


sure it will.but filling out the bigger chips will take a long time. if they are less than 1/8" i would just wipe paint all over instead and buff out. in fact i would do the wipe paint first and see if you can still see them if you do just re-do those and not the entire area again...


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## xzaros

That to me sir sounds like a plan! cheers:thumb:

Ill post my work once done, probably have to wait a week for supplies as I've just ordered a load of gear


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## scottt03

How much paint on average do you need for this? and where is the best place to get paint from?

Cheers


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## scottt03

Anyone ?!


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## justintime4

Read this thread completly, and stil hasitating. If i go this way. Or do it with Langka blob Eliminator

When you buy an Original touch up stick. In my case Honda.

-Do you still need to mix it with cellulose clearcoat?
-Can you buff it out with an eccentric buffing machine? Or only Rotary

I see everybody is real enthousiastic, but why i dont see many results on the thread. Or YT how to's

And here is a tip:

I found a cheaper version of the Festool tool.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mirka-Lackh...=Lackierwerkzeuge_Zubehör&hash=item2335176f1c


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## rich_4130

justintime4 said:


> Read this thread completly, and stil hasitating. If i go this way. Or do it with Langka blob Eliminator
> 
> When you buy an Original touch up stick. In my case Honda.
> 
> -Do you still need to mix it with cellulose clearcoat?
> -Can you buff it out with an eccentric buffing machine? Or only Rotary
> 
> I see everybody is real enthousiastic, but why i dont see many results on the thread. Or YT how to's
> 
> And here is a tip:
> 
> I found a cheaper version of the Festool tool.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mirka-Lackh...=Lackierwerkzeuge_Zubehör&hash=item2335176f1c


Can't really help with your questions but I'm currently in the process of trying this on the lower part on my front bumper. I'm using paint from paints4u and will be finishing with multiple grades of wet & dry and polishing with a Meguiars DA. Will post some pics in a week or two to compare how a complete novice gets on.


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## Bod42

Ok can anyone who is good with paint help us out.

I really need to do this, the rear arches on my truck are shocking from gravel tracks and it would take my years to fill them all in individually so i need to use this technique.

To the people who have done this, what did you ask for at the paint store as I have asked 4 separate paint places for "solvent base and cellulose clear" and they tell me this wont work. 

If i buy a touch up kit from BMW then how do I know that it is a solvent based paint?

Ok I trust Russ over a paint shop but this is the sort of reply Im getting, I just want what Im asking for :wall:

", just had a look at the article . This is a method used by some of the touch up guys that work for car yards . It may look ok for a short time but it a total bull**** way of doing the repair . If the chips aren't filled and the edges sanded lack of adhesion between the surfaces will occur and to try and get a level surface will not occur . With any type of paint process there are no easy short cuts , only the correct procedure . If you don't do it properly you will disappointed with the outcome . Sorry to be the one to say it but I have seen all the shortcuts and all the tears over the last 30 years ."


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## krissyn

Tonnes of chips on my Saab bonnet and one pot from paints4u. Trying the Cut and Slice method on one side and the stone chip repair on the other. Have a mix of small and large chips and interested to see how it goes. Two learning points so far:
1) a sharp chisel isn't an effective replacement for a denibber.
2) wear gloves.
3) don't open the paint pot in (what were) my best shorts.

Also two scratches on the drivers door to be filled, one for each method.


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## j3ggo

Thinking of getting one of these?

http://www.amazon.de/dp/B006HH4BXM/...TF8&colid=386ILK19AAZUV&coliid=I254ZC8HDRT90X


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## Focusaddict

krissyn said:


> Tonnes of chips on my Saab bonnet and one pot from paints4u. Trying the Cut and Slice method on one side and the stone chip repair on the other. Have a mix of small and large chips and interested to see how it goes. Two learning points so far:
> 1) a sharp chisel isn't an effective replacement for a denibber.
> 2) wear gloves.
> 3) don't open the paint pot in (what were) my best shorts.
> 
> Also two scratches on the drivers door to be filled, one for each method.


Which kit did you go for?


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## Rammy

I have read this thread, from front to back decided to have a go on the accord as it's got 100,000 miles under its belt and has a fair few marks to play with.
My main reason on posting is if anyone has a paint4U touch up 
I did a few chips with the 50/50 mix method they turned out very dark and the colour match looked no were near. 
I did a couple following P4U instructions ie, build up base coat them top off with clear and the colour match is spot on 
I did notice the mix became very dark and gritty as solvent evaporated even though I kept mixing it.
Maybe it's because it's a metallic pearl mix, also found it dried very quick so may have a drying aid added. 
This maybe why their mixed touch up only has 20% clear added, so the colour match stays closer to the base colour, not sure why clear should change the colour but, just what I observed.
Don't think I will try the rub method with the touch up, as stated the mix became gritty as it dried out.
Just posted findings so anyone thinking of doing it, won't need to find out the hard way. 
It's not a bad paint but my colour mix didn't lend itself to this way. :thumb:


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## gabrielleitao

This is a great guide, especially for a newbie like me!
thanks for sharing it, I'll always be aware to use if needed!


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## chriz1

Could wiping the paint on work for long scratches too?


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## Sean1ucc

What would be the best method to repair paint chips on the edge of a door, the thin rounded edge of the panel rather than any of the flat sections?


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## sillysod

Just had my Topaz 330 de-roadrashed using the paint smear/machine polish off technique by Attention to Detail in Stevenage. Here's a Facebook link to photos etc. https://www.facebook.com/attention.detail.cleaning/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1805900192971726


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## TarquinKrikery

Has anyone tried either technique but hand polishing after and not using a da?

I want to sell my car and could do with filling some minor scratches and removing some road rash. Want to try these techniques but don't really want outlay for a da given that's money which could go towards the new motor


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## sillysod

TarquinKrikery said:


> Has anyone tried either technique but hand polishing after and not using a da?


 Dean, who did the job for me, said it was hard work even with the power mop. When you add up the costs of the power tools, pads, compounds and paint for a one-off job it makes more sense to use a pro.


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## jahk86

I have OEM BMW Black Saphire touch up set, this includes the black base coat and a clear coat touch up stick. Could I mix these 1:1 and use your method to rub over a large area using a lint free cloth, leave to drive them polish out using a DA?


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## wyliss

Just reading this and haven't seen it before.
I'd like to add that the Loew Cornell pen is first class at stone chips.


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## wyliss

I have a deep scratch and was wondering how you got on with the mixing of the dealer paint and clear coat plus shaving off the excess? Did you use the Festool de nibber?
Cheers
:thumb:



Caracul said:


> Just tried this today for the first time. I had had the paint for a while, and just waiting for a nice day.
> 
> The paint I got was from the dealer, and came in 2 15ml pots, one of colour and the other the lacquer. Mixed them together and touched in a deep scratch a while ago.
> 
> Today, I set up a test area and rubbed on with a cloth. You realise if you put too much on as it's obvious after that there are stubborn areas that show left over paint. It does work, but deeper holes do need a bit of pre treatment.
> 
> For bigger chips, like several have said before, leave plenty of time after filling in (24hours) and if they are really big, you may need to apply a coat, comes back the next day, apply a coat, come back the next day... Until flush or slightly raised.
> 
> For the actual road rash, I didn't leave very long at all... Just long enough to make sure it was dry. Seemed to work ok, and the thought process was that if they are small holes, it'll be less likely to pull the new paint out of them. I did takes some pictures but I have yet to check the quality.


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## wyliss

My car is metallic and when I mix the two it looks well darker in the cup. Would you say its best to apply them separately ?
Many thanks
:thumb:



Rammy said:


> I have read this thread, from front to back decided to have a go on the accord as it's got 100,000 miles under its belt and has a fair few marks to play with.
> My main reason on posting is if anyone has a paint4U touch up
> I did a few chips with the 50/50 mix method they turned out very dark and the colour match looked no were near.
> I did a couple following P4U instructions ie, build up base coat them top off with clear and the colour match is spot on
> I did notice the mix became very dark and gritty as solvent evaporated even though I kept mixing it.
> Maybe it's because it's a metallic pearl mix, also found it dried very quick so may have a drying aid added.
> This maybe why their mixed touch up only has 20% clear added, so the colour match stays closer to the base colour, not sure why clear should change the colour but, just what I observed.
> Don't think I will try the rub method with the touch up, as stated the mix became gritty as it dried out.
> Just posted findings so anyone thinking of doing it, won't need to find out the hard way.
> It's not a bad paint but my colour mix didn't lend itself to this way. :thumb:


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## wyliss

Does anybody have before and after pics of using the shave tool? I intend to buy the Festool variant so would be good to see the results of this. Thanks


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## wyliss

bump :thumb:


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## AKA Pabs

I'll try and get some In the future. I had a 182 Clio that was peppered with stone chips at the front end and used the festool to get this finish.
















Sorry there are no before and afters or close ups.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ShiningWit

Good write up, shame the pictures in the first post arent still there.


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## swissrob

Hi, 

Wondering if the paint 4 u 2 pack kit is still the go to choice for small chips?

I have a few on the bonnet of a vw T6 van in pearl black metallic that I want to sort out before getting the bonnet wrapped in clear


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## Fairynuff

Reflectology said:


> The pictures below show the scratch repair on a carbon black BMW M3….


I don't see any pics?


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## M3_Crazy_Dude

I want to resolve some road rash on my car - effectively if I pour the touch up paint (which already has lacquer pre-mixed into it) onto a lint cloth, I should be able to rub this over the road rash. Then once dry I just wet sand / machine polish the area and it done?


----------

