# Oil change intervals for A4 1.9 TDI



## AndyA4TDI (May 7, 2012)

Hi

I have an 04 Audi that has 120k on the clock. The oil change is on the longlife schedule using Castro Edge professional 5W 30 longlife oil. I currently get the oil changed once a year and do 18k miles a year. Given the age and milage should I change to 6 monthly oil changes using the standard oil? Thanks


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## w138pbo (Jul 10, 2013)

I would use the same oil and change it every 10k or 12 months.


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## RedUntilDead (Feb 10, 2009)

Have a look at the handbook and cross reference the correct grade of oil Audi say should be used for your model. Some are very fussy.
Long boring story short - I once had a 1.9tdi A4 (PDI engine) serviced annually but not with the correct oil. I suspect this is what seen off the turbo prematurely. Some engines are sensitive to oil grades.
Not a fan of longlife services and was once advised against by a very senior guy from Audi service.


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## Dipesh (Oct 12, 2007)

I'd stick with the long life as it stays thinner when it's been in the engine for a while. 

I'd personally change the old every 10k and forget the indicator. My mrs however just goes by the indicator and doesn't have any issues. She's on 134k now and has always been on long life oil.


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

Long life service interval is 20k .

Change it sooner .


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## MEH4N (Mar 15, 2012)

If you're doing that mileage I would just change it every 10k or every year if its less. Cheap changing the oil more than other issues it leads to IMO.


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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

I too would do an oil change every 10k or 12mths whichever you see first - in my case it's 10k:thumb:


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## Andy-P (Jun 1, 2014)

On an Audi, long life servicing means that the car can do up to 19k miles between oil changes. It does not mean it will do 19k miles, but can do, depending on your driving style. The car takes in to consideration things like how many cold starts, and for how long the engine gets run at hot temperature to determine how quickly the oil is degrading (as long as your using oil which meets VW/Audi standards), and therefore calculates how long until the oil will require changed.

Some people who do lower mileage stop start type journeys may decide to have their cars set on a fixed service regime with oil changes every 10k miles, because they've found their oil change light illuminates at 6k miles for example. However, this isn't necessarily a good idea as they're actually using the same oil for 4k miles over what the car would have recommended being changed - which isn't a good thing.

On the back of this, if you're one of those people who's car reaches "mid-teen" thousand miles, changing the oil earlier isn't going to be a bad thing at all, but leaving it until the oil service light comes on won't be a problem either - Between Audi and the oil manufacturers, I'm sure a significant amount of money will have been spent developing this system, and they're not going to be wrong.

However Andy, I'm not sure you're engine may be allowed to run on standard, non longlife oil. You'll need to check this as some engines are only allowed to use a longlife specification (VW5## ##). However, if you use the recommended VW specification oil and change it at earlier intervals, then there won't be a problem at all.

Personally, all Audi's should be left on the longlife servicing regime, allowing the car to monitor how quickly the oil degrades whilst advising the driver on how long to next change via the oil service light. It's the way they come from the factory and should be left like that. Only in cases of extreme low annual mileage use should changing to fixed annual servicing be considered. The only reason someone from an Audi dealer would recommend fixed servicing is for the above reason, or to get a car in to the dealer more often so they car take more money off of you for servicing. Like I've said, Audi will probably have spent millions developing this system and it's highly unlikely they're going to be wrong.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

Get yourself good quality oil not some cheap semi synthetic like Edge is ... 

Do some reading about Millers Oils.


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## Jim H (Jan 26, 2014)

Alzak said:


> Get yourself good quality oil not some cheap semi synthetic like Edge is ...
> 
> Do some reading about Millers Oils.


It doesn't matter if it's semi or fully synthetic, as long as it meets the correct VW spec it will be OK.

BTW, yep I use Millers oil in all our cars. For mine I've always used XFE-PD (505.01 spec) which is a Semi. Although last change I bought XF-longlife (5W-40) which is same spec, but a fully synth.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

Jim H said:


> It doesn't matter if it's semi or fully synthetic, as long as it meets the correct VW spec it will be OK.


Fully synthetic oil is designed from the beggining with a goal to protect engine in best possible way and it will always be much better than oils with HC base end of story.

And specifications do not mean a lot as there is many oils which do not have required VW specification but in theory and practivce those oils superceed given specification requirement.



Jim H said:


> BTW, yep I use Millers oil in all our cars. For mine I've always used XFE-PD (505.01 spec) which is a Semi. Although last change I bought XF-longlife (5W-40) which is same spec, but a fully synth.


Those oils do not have the same spec ... XF is far more superior

XFE

TYPICAL CHARACTERISTICS:
SAE Viscosity Grade ... 5w40
Specific Gravity @ 15°C 0.858
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C 13.9cSt
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C 88cSt
Viscosity Index ... 161
Pour Point °C ... -42
Flashpoint °C ... 220
Cold Crank Viscosity @ -30°C 6,000cP

XF

SAE Viscosity	5w40
Specific Gravity (at 15°C)	0.848
Kinematic Viscosity (at 100°C, cSt)	13.9
Kinematic Viscosity (at 40°C, cSt)	82.6
Viscosity Index	173
Pour Point (°C)	-39
Flash Point (°C)	>200
Cold Crank Viscosity (cP)	6,600


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Alzak said:


> Fully synthetic oil is designed from the beggining with a goal to protect engine in best possible way and it will always be much better than oils with HC base end of story.


The problem is finding a "fully synthetic" oil which doesn't have a HC base stock these days, since they're now legally able to call highly refined HC bases "fully synthetic". This includes Shell Helix Ultra, Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge among many others.

I'm going for Amsoil for my next oil change, as it's the only oil meeting the specs that is guaranteed to be a group IV fully synthetic oil. The others appear to be a legal scam...


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## Jim H (Jan 26, 2014)

Alzak said:


> Those oils do not have the same spec ... XF is far more superior


What I meant was they both meet the same VW spec. (505.01). I only bought XF, LL because the Motor Factors didn't stock XFE-PD any more. What was even better was it was the same price as the old stuff too. 

For the last 5 or 6 years I've used XFE-PD because that was the only oil, from Millers, suitable for my car (unless I used 5W-30 long life). It is only recently Millers have started to produce this new fully synthetic 5W-40 PD oil.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

millns84 said:


> The problem is finding a "fully synthetic" oil which doesn't have a HC base stock these days, since they're now legally able to call highly refined HC bases "fully synthetic". This includes Shell Helix Ultra, Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge among many others.
> 
> I'm going for Amsoil for my next oil change, as it's the only oil meeting the specs that is guaranteed to be a group IV fully synthetic oil. The others appear to be a legal scam...


Amsoil, Liqui moly and Millers oils are worth a look at


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Alzak said:


> Amsoil, Liqui moly and Millers oils are worth a look at


Never heard of Liqui Moly and it looks interesting, but having just checked their VW 504 spec, it's also HC based 

As for Millers, there's no information about the base stocks used in XF Long Life, even on their MSDS sheet. It's a fair bit cheaper than Amsoil so I can only assume that it's also HC based...


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## Jim H (Jan 26, 2014)

I'm I right in saying HC you're referring to means HydroCarbon?


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## kings.. (Aug 28, 2007)

Quantum longlife 3 twuce a year with genuine filter is what id suggest. I have had many pd's over the years and it keeps them quiet and smooth. Quantum is made by castrol, it is the factory oil and main dealer choice too.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Jim H said:


> I'm I right in saying HC you're referring to means HydroCarbon?


Hydro cracked mineral oils.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

i use castrol Edge 5w-30 in the taxi, not had any problems with it


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

millns84 said:


> Never heard of Liqui Moly and it looks interesting, but having just checked their VW 504 spec, it's also HC based
> 
> As for Millers, there's no information about the base stocks used in XF Long Life, even on their MSDS sheet. It's a fair bit cheaper than Amsoil so I can only assume that it's also HC based...


Most of 504/507 are HC based

Is there any reason why you need 504 ?



Jim H said:


> I'm I right in saying HC you're referring to means HydroCarbon?


HC means HydroCracking



bidderman1969 said:


> i use castrol Edge 5w-30 in the taxi, not had any problems with it


Most of my mates use £3 car wash and they never had any problems as well ...


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Alzak said:


> Most of 504/507 are HC based
> 
> Is there any reason why you need 504 ?


Just to stick to the manufacturer's specs.


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

i use millers nano drive 5w 40 in my gti 05 as its been mapped etc great oil and put in my sisters gti too still change very 8 to 10 k i would change every 10k minimum


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

millns84 said:


> Just to stick to the manufacturer's specs.


You know some of the oils do not carry needed specification on their packing but in reality they offer much better protection than given spec.

Is all about royality payments this days if you want to carry VW specs on your packing you have to pay.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Alzak said:


> You know some of the oils do not carry needed specification on their packing but in reality they offer much better protection than given spec.
> 
> Is all about royality payments this days if you want to carry VW specs on your packing you have to pay.


Yes but unfortunately I've got a warranty to think about.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

millns84 said:


> Yes but unfortunately I've got a warranty to think about.


But those oils are far more superior so not really sure what warranty got to do with this ?


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Alzak said:


> But those oils are far more superior so not really sure what warranty got to do with this ?


If I don't use oils with the VW 504 rating my warranty is voided. It's not worth risking.

I personally don't think Amsoil can be beaten and that meets the specs anyway so I'm happy with that. I would otherwise have Millers Nanodrive but that doesn't have VW 504 approval.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

millns84 said:


> If I don't use oils with the VW 504 rating my warranty is voided. It's not worth risking.
> 
> I personally don't think Amsoil can be beaten and that meets the specs anyway so I'm happy with that. I would otherwise have Millers Nanodrive but that doesn't have VW 504 approval.


How did you dealer will know you have used oil without 504 spec ? Upon testing this oil will meet all required specifications ...


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## Jim H (Jan 26, 2014)

Alzak said:


> How did you dealer will know you have used oil without 504 spec ? Upon testing this oil will meet all required specifications ...


The reason special oil is needed is to protect the camshaft lobes that are used to pressurise the injectors, and which encounter very high loadings. The result of incorrect oil use in a PD is severe camshaft wear. This will eventually stop the engine through the lobes grinding away to the point where the injectors don't pressurise properly and the engine won't run, that's if all the swarf and metal filings created by the process don't destroy something else first!! This is why the oil MUST meet the required VW specifications.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

Jim H said:


> The reason special oil is needed is to protect the camshaft lobes that are used to pressurise the injectors, and which encounter very high loadings. The result of incorrect oil use in a PD is severe camshaft wear. This will eventually stop the engine through the lobes grinding away to the point where the injectors don't pressurise properly and the engine won't run, that's if all the swarf and metal filings created by the process don't destroy something else first!! This is why the oil MUST meet the required VW specifications.


You do not get my point ... Not all manufactures decide to pay royality for every oil they manufacture just to be able to use VW spec logo.

Some of the oils do not carry required VW spec but in reality they superceed requirement for given spec.

I often see cheap oils with VW spec on packing but good quality (real) full synthetic oils without VW spec on their packing you do not want say that oil for £20 for 4L is better than millers, liqui moly amsoil just because it carries VW spec on packing ...


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## kings.. (Aug 28, 2007)

you do get what you pay for with everything in life, however as Jim correctly stated these PD engines are very prone to specific wear, they are also not a massively high performance engine I would certainly not put £100 quids worth of oil in them!! I would however in an Mpower car or turbo'd toy.. for everyday use the quantum main dealer/factory oil is perfect and not stupidly priced.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Alzak said:


> You do not
> get my point ... Not all manufactures decide to pay royality for every oil they manufacture just to be able to use VW spec logo.
> 
> Some of the oils do not carry required VW spec but in reality they superceed requirement for given spec.
> ...


So what is the best oil for PD engine will be keen to know :thumb:


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

Trip tdi said:


> So what is the best oil for PD engine will be keen to know :thumb:


I just bought millers nanodrive but liqui moly diesel synthoil is also very good.


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## Dift (May 22, 2011)

Always used millers oil in my PD 1.9s.

Never had an issue with any of the cars.
Current A4 1.9 quattro sport is on 135k, and purrs like a kitten.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

This shows how ridiculous some of the manufacturer endorsements are:

Millers Nanodrive EE 5W30, meets BMW LL04 but not VW504

Castrol Edge 5W30 meets both BMW LL04 and VW504

Both have the ACEA C3 rating also...

I can get the Nanodrive stuff for £34.00 for 5 litres, that's the same as what I paid for Shell Helix Ultra.:wall:


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## Jim H (Jan 26, 2014)

millns84 said:


> This shows how ridiculous some of the manufacturer endorsements are:
> 
> Millers Nanodrive EE 5W30, meets BMW LL04 but not VW504
> 
> ...


The only problem with Castrol is they usually only come in 4 litre bottles and mine and probably the OP's A4, needs 4.5-5 litres.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Jim H said:


> The only problem with Castrol is they usually only come in 4 litre bottles and mine and probably the OP's A4, needs 4.5-5 litres.


Think yourself lucky, mine takes 6.2 litres! :doublesho

:lol:


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

millns84 said:


> This shows how ridiculous some of the manufacturer endorsements are:
> 
> Millers Nanodrive EE 5W30, meets BMW LL04 but not VW504
> 
> ...


And this is what I'm talking about is not the fact that given oil do not meet required spec is just all about royality payments this days.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Alzak said:


> And this is what I'm talking about is not the fact that given oil do not meet required spec is just all about royality payments this days.


I do think you have a good point, but the Nanodrive oil appears to have VW 502/505 approval. It makes me wonder why it passed those specs and not the newer 504/507 which are also retrospectively applicable to the 502/505 spec unless there's something about the oil which meant that it couldn't meet the newer 504/507 specs...


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## kings.. (Aug 28, 2007)

Just stick with Quantum for all PD's unless they have been modified.. use genuine filters too. Its quite simple.

To ensure compliance with manufacturer specs use OE oils.


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

kings.. said:


> Just stick with Quantum for all PD's unless they have been modified.. use genuine filters too. Its quite simple.
> 
> To ensure compliance with manufacturer specs use OE oils.


:thumb:


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

kings.. said:


> Just stick with Quantum for all PD's unless they have been modified.. use genuine filters too. Its quite simple.
> 
> To ensure compliance with manufacturer specs use OE oils.


So you saying you should look after your engine just when car was modified ?


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

Alzak said:


> So you saying you should look after your engine just when car was modified ?


No he's staying stick with quantum oil unless the engine has been modified?


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

Steve said:


> No he's staying stick with quantum oil unless the engine has been modified?


But Quantum is very poor oil look at available datasheets and compare this oil to synthetic oils ...


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## kings.. (Aug 28, 2007)

if quantum aka castrol is so poor why does every German marque within the VW group use it as their recommended/factory product?

Surely it wouldn't be in their interests to supply inferior quality products?! Now, I am not a petro-chemist but they do develop and test lubricants within their facility to far greater lengths than any other small time oil supplier... 

This debate could go on and on, but without being truly qualified within this field its more a case of what's worked well in the past is what I and many others will stick with.
One point I would make is allot of on-line oil and fluid suppliers say derogatory things about factory lubricants to gain business, my response is simple VW, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche etc have far greater R&D budgets than any other third party... if they don't know what's right for their own engineering who does?!


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

kings.. said:


> if quantum aka castrol is so poor why does every German marque within the VW group use it as their recommended/factory product?
> 
> Surely it wouldn't be in their interests to supply inferior quality products?! Now, I am not a petro-chemist but they do develop and test lubricants within their facility to far greater lengths than any other small time oil supplier...
> 
> ...


Answer is simple is cheap ...

You do not need to be qualified to understand values from datasheet...

Quantum is just rebranded product they do not have R&D lab and looks like just VAG UK is using them.


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

Alzak said:


> Answer is simple is cheap ...
> 
> You do not need to be qualified to understand values from datasheet...
> 
> Quantum is just rebranded product they do not have R&D lab and looks like just VAG UK is using them.


Because it's made by Castrol for VAG .I should know I work for them .


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## Jim H (Jan 26, 2014)

Alzak said:


> ...You do not need to be qualified to understand values from datasheet...


Nope, even with a HNC in Engineering, looking at data sheets, such as the spec of the 2 Millers oils you gave earlier, I wouldn't know what to look for and makes a better oil.

What figure/spec would guarantee the oil would not destroy my camshaft if I used it in my engine?


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