# Modification - declarations



## alan_mcc

In just under a year (still ages) I'll be insuring my Punto on a provisional for a wee while until I (hopefully) past my test.
It'll be going on 3rd party, as it only cost me £265.

What I'd like to know is, do I have to declare *everything* I change?

Alloys will be fitted, from a Punto Sporting, mine is only a Punto ELX.
HIDs will be installed.
Nice subtle hidden but loud-ish exhaust behind rear bumper.
Rear windows tinted.
Suspension will be lowered all round.

Do I have to declare all of this?


----------



## warrenlord51

yeah let them know. can have you pants down if anything was too happen. but touch wood wont.


----------



## alan_mcc

I recognise your username - dont have a punto too do you? 

My dad seems to think that its only 'performance' modifications that need to be declared. For example suspension exhaust and HIDs. Not alloys.


----------



## warrenlord51

alan_mcc said:


> I recognise your username - dont have a punto too do you?
> 
> My dad seems to think that its only 'performance' modifications that need to be declared. For example suspension exhaust and HIDs. Not alloys.


yeah you prob know my car from its ''better days''










am with quinn, they said all mods that don't effect performance don't matter but they would like them recorded, so no change in price, but things like you said do matter like suspension, forced induction, exhausts and performance stuff. which can bump up the price. :thumb:


----------



## alan_mcc

I recall that car, someone told me to buy your smoothed bits but they're different colours.

Heres my punto  
Also fancy putting mk2b rear lights on, would I have to declare them?


----------



## warrenlord51

lights i personally wouldn't bother as its just the clear indicator that's diff. 

yeah still got the bumper here. not same colour though.


----------



## alan_mcc

Shame, cause I would have had it off you. What do you think to the Sporting alloys, should I declare them? They are Fiat Punto bits.. so OEM+


----------



## warrenlord51

alan_mcc said:


> Shame, cause I would have had it off you. What do you think to the Sporting alloys, should I declare them? They are Fiat Punto bits.. so OEM+


erm hard to say you will have to speak to your insurance and see what they ask of you to provide information wise.

i see your point though being oem.


----------



## EastUpperGooner

Mk2 massive in da houseeeeeeeee.


:lol:

You need to declare all mods, I declared my tints, lowering springs and uprated brakes and it increased the premium by £34. :thumb:


----------



## trebor127

If I was you, i'd declare everything. Even the alloys as they aren't standard to that particular model.


----------



## mattsbmw

Declare everything even if you dont think it is relevant or they may not pay out if you have an accident.

In addition to this technically you will be driving eith out insurance which is quite serious.


----------



## Warwickshire Detailer

mattsbmw said:


> Declare everything even if you dont think it is relevant or they may not pay out if you have an accident.
> 
> In addition to this technically you will be driving eith out insurance which is quite serious.


+1 Declare everything. As said, if you don't then your insurance could be void.


----------



## chisai

Absolutely everything needs declared. They look on some of the non-performance enhancing bits as making it look more appealling to thieves, even go faster stripes have been known to void a claim.


----------



## JordanTypeR

chisai said:


> Absolutely everything needs declared. They look on some of the non-performance enhancing bits as making it look more appealling to thieves, even go faster stripes have been known to void a claim.


I agree, you must tell them about everything. Little bits won't put your premium up, but they could be funny about it if you were in an accident. Saying that, I've driven modified cars for the last 8 years and this time is the only time I've fully declared them. I wouldn't not do it now though!


----------



## alan_mcc

Think i'll declare everything then - its a shame cause it'll be a bloody fortune.


----------



## Strothow

My brothers mate put GTI wheels, on his golf, and his premium shot up!


----------



## alan_mcc

LEDs all around - declare them?


----------



## alan_mcc

What a BARGAIN

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-x-382-Amber...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item1e5af68680


----------



## Shiny

alan_mcc said:


> LEDs all around - declare them?


Declare everything means declare everything that wasnt fitted as standard. Some of many things i have declared on the Accord for example are led side lights, jazz washer jets, sr leather interior, aeroblade wipers, uprated ht leads, sparkplugs, sr bootspoiler etc. The sr stuff is from an Accord, but not my model Accord, so it must be declared. i also have facelift rear lights (clear indicator strip instead of amber) declared.


----------



## JordanTypeR

alan_mcc said:


> Think i'll declare everything then - its a shame cause it'll be a bloody fortune.


It depends who you're with. I've gone through a broker called Brent Acre. They set a horse power limit and you can do any modifications you want at no extra cost as long as you don't go over that power. Any suspension, wheels, bodykits etc are all ok.

I'm not sure what age they insure people from though, but I found all the smaller companies more competative than the bigger ones.


----------



## STEALTH K3

Declare the lot the main things that will boost the price is power increase in % from the standard, but if you do not declare something its the prefect reason not to pay you. When I was getting quotes for my car they said other parts wheels, suspension and so on will increase the value so you will want paying for them if the car goes missing you will be lucky to get a car with Nitros insured nowadays. 
The most helpful compmany that half knew what there on about was sky no doubt that will be differnt with some people.


----------



## alan_mcc

I'd certainly like to deal with a company that isn't bothered about visual mods, only "performance" things done will be an exhaust (centre pipe down) and suspension. Also alloys if they count?


----------



## Strothow

Strothow said:


> My brothers mate put GTI wheels, on his golf, and his premium shot up!





alan_mcc said:


> I'd certainly like to deal with a company that isn't bothered about visual mods, only "performance" things done will be an exhaust (centre pipe down) and suspension. Also alloys if they count?


:thumb:


----------



## grant_evans

as already said quiin dont care about visual mods, although i would still let them know to be on the safe side. other companies are a lot more fussy, somone i know had a polo and changed the wheels to wheels from a higher spec model, his insurence told him they wouldnt cover him!!!


----------



## puntomatt

But what with Quinn being in administration they cant give out quotes/new policies 

Good luck declaring your HIDs as well what with them being "illegal" in the first place  When you say LEDs do you mean uprated bulbs or silly LED strips?


----------



## GarySX

As the guys said before, declare everything. 

If you expect your insurance to pay out you need to declare everything that was not on the car when it left the factory.

My insurer did not charge for my alloys, exhaust or air filter but did for suspension and boost / oil / water gauges. 

Go figure.


----------



## STEALTH K3

puntomatt said:


> But what with Quinn being in administration they cant give out quotes/new policies
> 
> Good luck declaring your HIDs as well what with them being "illegal" in the first place  When you say LEDs do you mean uprated bulbs or silly LED strips?


HIDs ilegal :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## alan_mcc

puntomatt said:


> But what with Quinn being in administration they cant give out quotes/new policies
> 
> Good luck declaring your HIDs as well what with them being "illegal" in the first place  When you say LEDs do you mean uprated bulbs or silly LED strips?


Nope, they're not illegal. /discussion

LED's as in White LED 501s in the sidelights, number plate lights and interior lights. So yes uprated bulbs.

No matt, not every 16 year old is a chav. Off your high horse now, careful


----------



## STEALTH K3

"Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal. .... In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated".


----------



## alan_mcc

I've got projector headlamps and can level my headlights, how bout that ?


----------



## puntomatt

alan_mcc said:


> Nope, they're not illegal. /discussion
> 
> LED's as in White LED 501s in the sidelights, number plate lights and interior lights. So yes uprated bulbs.
> 
> No matt, not every 16 year old is a chav. Off your high horse now, careful


What? I never called you a chav? I asked you a question didnt i?



alan_mcc said:


> I've got projector headlamps and can level my headlights, how bout that ?


Nope. They have to be auto leveling. IE you start the car and they move up down left and right and they find there level. You also have to have headlamp washers which i know for a fact a mk2 doesnt have.

Im not saying dont get them as i would i am just pointing out they are illegal so you should not be able to declare them as they are not for road use.



STEALTH K3 said:


> HIDs ilegal :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


What? They are on cars that dont have them fitted as standard. You have just proved that with your 2nd post in which you quoted the regs so what are you laughing at?


----------



## dest

Ive had HID's on my cars for the last 3 or 4 years, none have had auto leveling, and only 2 had headlamp washers.
All of them passed MOT's with not even a mention, and Ive never been stopped for them either.


----------



## puntomatt

Look im not saying dont do them. I am pointing out that technically they are illegal so no insurance company should cover them and even if they do it still doesnt make them any more legal. I have ran them myself in the past im purely pointing the facts out.


----------



## alan_mcc

Just ordered LED taillights and brakelights to go with my indicator bulbs and number plate light. Next is reverse light. Then side repeaters, inteiror lights, then HIDs and thats me


----------



## EastUpperGooner

Just change the rear lights over for Mk2b lights:










This is white sidelights and 6k HID's. :thumb:


----------



## alan_mcc

I'm doing the same as you, 6k HID's and MK2b lights, except I'm taking the sidelights out totally. Very popular among Meganes/Clios, so i'm told.

by the way have you got a bit of camber going on your wheels?


----------



## puntomatt

You get 1 degree of negative when you lower it. Taking the sidelights out is pointless imo.


----------



## alan_mcc

puntomatt said:


> Taking the sidelights out is pointless imo.


Okay.

Thought you weren't answering any more of my questions?


----------



## puntomatt

That part quoted wasnt a question was it? It was a statement you made.  oops you dont like them do you.


----------



## EastUpperGooner

Listen to Matt, he speaks the truth. :thumb:


----------



## alan_mcc

puntomatt said:


> That part quoted wasnt a question was it? It was a statement you made.  oops you dont like them do you.


I quoted the first part and replied 'Okay'.

I didn't bother to quote the rest of your drivel.


----------



## puntomatt

Drivel? I told you why he had camber. Sort your attitude out.


----------



## alan_mcc

You said you weren't gonna answer any more of my questions.


----------



## puntomatt

Missed the point of that PM didnt you? Was meant to be illustrating something not specifically saying i wont but if you dont want me to answer questions you have on your that i know quite a bit about i wont. No skin off my nose.


----------



## alan_mcc

Good video, thank god I've got projectors.


----------



## EastUpperGooner

alan_mcc said:


> YouTube- Illegal HID Convesion Kits Explained
> 
> Good video, thank god I've got projectors.


Correct, but they are still illegal. lol


----------



## alan_mcc

:lol: 

Oh well. I will knowingly illegaly install them then.


----------



## EastUpperGooner

Likewise.


----------



## alan_mcc

Were your sidelights a pain to fit aswell?


----------



## EastUpperGooner

alan_mcc said:


> Were your sidelights a pain to fit aswell?


No it's easy, you just pinch the the holder and pull it out.


----------



## alan_mcc

Really? I struggled! Took me ages, and it was only to replace a normal one.


----------



## EastUpperGooner

Are you talking about the indicators on the side or the sidelights in the headlight cluster?


----------



## scottgm

alan_mcc said:


> Were your sidelights a pain to fit aswell?


Mine were... had to drop my bumper... take headlights out.. then still needed thin nosed pliars to get the F**kers out!


----------



## alan_mcc

Sidelights in the headlights.


----------



## EastUpperGooner

alan_mcc said:


> Sidelights in the headlights.


Just twist and pull them out, they are the easiest thing to change on the car.


----------



## alan_mcc

Must have been trying to take out the wrong ones then - gave up after a while.


----------



## alan_mcc

just went out and had a go, **** easy, 2 spring clips and i was there! dunno what i was trying to get. i'm gonna take them totally out


----------



## alan_mcc

Right guys, 

Gonna be putting a straight through pipe in place of the cat.. do I have to declare this? It is illegal after all..


----------



## dest

Its not illegal!
Your car has to pass emissions on the mot, the cat is simply to get them below the allowed limits.
SOME cars can pass them without the cats, but not many


----------



## alan_mcc

Alright, it's just I've seen cars being pulled by police/VOSA checking for decat pipe before.


----------



## dest

No, they should be checking the emissions are low enough.
Sadly, some people (and police!) think the law says you have to have a cat fitted.
As I said, its simply there to do a job, if you can get there without it, then you are lucky.
The mot is not a visual test to check the cat is there!

Ive not had a cat on my cars for years, never had a problem


----------



## puntomatt

Do you mean the midbox? Or the cat in the manifold? If you are getting rid of the cat on the manifold then you are just making an 8v even slower.


----------



## alan_mcc

Sorry matt, not that mechanically minded as you can tell. Not from the exhaust manifold, the centre pipe, so the midbox I imagine?


----------



## mattsbmw

I dont see the fascination with doing mods that will need to be corrected for the MOT, just leaves you open to problems and if you are caught could have an effect on your licence as you are a young driver.


----------



## alan_mcc

I've ditched the HID idea and ordered some xenon bulbs. Not sure if they actually contain xenon gas, but I'm sure they'll be an improvement.

It's just for the car to sound decent really, I'm not expecting much from an 8v and it's neck breaking 60 bhp .


----------



## alan_mcc

EUG, why have the punto mk2s got the stupidest rear light fitting ever? 

The bolt for the nearside rear light was behind my sub, or is it an amp? I dunno. What a pain in the backside!


----------



## puntomatt

alan_mcc said:


> Sorry matt, not that mechanically minded as you can tell. Not from the exhaust manifold, the centre pipe, so the midbox I imagine?


Yup thats the midbox. Its just a silencer so you can take it out no problems.


----------



## Shiny

You must declare a decat to your Insurers.

There is also a potential issue that your insurance policy will state that your car must be kept in a roadworthy condition. If the decat makes it unroadworthy due to the emissions, then potentially your policy could still be null and void even though you have disclosed the decat.


----------



## EastUpperGooner

alan_mcc said:


> EUG, why have the punto mk2s got the stupidest rear light fitting ever?
> 
> The bolt for the nearside rear light was behind my sub, or is it an amp? I dunno. What a pain in the backside!


Not really, It's 3 screws to take the sub out and two bolts to take each rear cluster out.


----------



## puntomatt

Shiny said:


> You must declare a decat to your Insurers.
> 
> There is also a potential issue that your insurance policy will state that your car must be kept in a roadworthy condition. If the decat makes it unroadworthy due to the emissions, then potentially your policy could still be null and void even though you have disclosed the decat.


Hes not decatting it. Middle box is just a silencer so if you declared an after market exhaust system then this should cover it?


----------



## Guest

I wouldnt bother with a decat on a Petrol. Saw a new Punto pass but it was filled up with an Additive (No petrol, just an additive). Diesels can pass nicley though, will be comming out of my D-Turbo when I get the chance 

On the other hand, I'm with Quinn and they didn't say anything about the Radio, Speakers, Amp and Sub and when I asked about lowering they said there would be no charge. But if I put the induction kit back on then they wouldnt cover me


----------



## EastUpperGooner

Bailes said:


> I wouldnt bother with a decat on a Petrol. Saw a new Punto pass but it was filled up with an Additive (No petrol, just an additive). Diesels can pass nicley though, will be comming out of my D-Turbo when I get the chance
> 
> On the other hand, I'm with Quinn and they didn't say anything about the Radio, Speakers, Amp and Sub and when I asked about lowering they said there would be no charge. But if I put the induction kit back on then they wouldnt cover me


Most insurance companies don't even have an option to add audio to the modifiations list.


----------



## alan_mcc

Bailes, didnt the induction kit **** your engine anyway?


----------



## Guest

alan_mcc said:


> Bailes, didnt the induction kit **** your engine anyway?


Pretty much, but I have a BMC CDA hanging about here


----------



## alan_mcc

Took the wee induction type pipe off my airbox today, sounded alright, probably isn't doing any good for the engine though so I put it back on.


----------



## Barrie

also be warned, your insuring on a provisional now but once you pass your insurance will rocket, and with the mods you are going to get shafted


----------



## Guest

As above. It cost me an extraa £700 when I passed


----------



## dest

alan_mcc said:


> Bailes, didnt the induction kit **** your engine anyway?


Cone filters are crap UNLESS they are shielded, or all they do is suck in hot air.



alan_mcc said:


> Took the wee induction type pipe off my airbox today, sounded alright, probably isn't doing any good for the engine though so I put it back on.


Opening up the port on an airbox is good as it gets more air in, BUT, only if it does'nt allow hot air in as above.
I have modified mine with a 4" port, it is just as effective as a cone but without the need or cost of a sheild.
I simply dont understand why people use cones when you already have a perfectly good heatshield for a filter: the airbox!
Just improve the flow to it.

Before/After


----------



## puntomatt

dest said:


> Cone filters are crap UNLESS they are shielded, or all they do is suck in hot air.


Not true its about positioning. If a cone filter is on top of the engine then yes it will be crap, but if its placed right then you will gain power.










Much better than a more efficient airbox on mine


----------



## alan_mcc

Matt, where is the best place for a generic cone filter on a mk2 - i've been told behind the battery tray?


----------



## puntomatt

If you dont want to pay for a GSR then yeah a focus induction kit with the filter behind the battery is best. This is becuase you dont have the induction pipe over the engine preventing heat soak and it will get most cold air behind the battery.


----------



## alan_mcc

Thanks, was just worried it wouldn't get very much air at all there.

The induction 'pipe' is actually quite restricting, pointed a hairdryer through it, could hardly feel any air coming out. Whys this - did FIAT restrict it deliberately?

On the 106 Quiksilvers they have a restrictor pipe in place, think it's for a lower insurance group or something.


----------



## puntomatt

I dont know if they did it deliberately but it wouldnt suprise me. Its definately not down to lack of space in the bay.


----------



## alan_mcc

You think it actually would sound different with it off or not? I took it off again and think there is a sound difference, especially from the outside.

I also had the whole airbox off and there was a small tube going from the engine into the airbox - presume it's where a small oil breather filter has to go?


----------



## puntomatt

Yeah thats the oil breather. You dont need a separate filter if it goes into the airbox. It might make a slight difference to noise.


----------



## alan_mcc

I mean when I fit an open induction kit - do I have to fit a small filter to it?


----------



## puntomatt

No as its illegal. Your not meant to vent to atmosphere. Focus will have a tube coming off it to connect the pipe off the engine to.


----------



## alan_mcc

Alright. Never knew that. Cheers :thumb:


----------

