# Drying aids that don’t affect your LSP



## ad_182_uk (Mar 2, 2014)

Hi all,

Does anyone know of a drying aid that won’t affect the LSP wax / sealant etc beading / protection behaivour?

i tend to spray my drying towel with a weak mix of water and QD and a bit on the car itself then dab dry.

I dont want the QD to change / take away from whatever the LSP is if that makes sense. 

Thanks.


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## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

ad_182_uk said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Does anyone know of a drying aid that won't affect the LSP wax / sealant etc beading / protection behaivour?
> 
> ...


Generally drying aids lay down something to the paint, maybe ONR but other than that maybe DI water


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2020)

Pretty sure all drying aid/QD leave behind something, or they wouldn't disperse water they way they do. How much it effects your existing LSP depends on concentration and the hydrophobic characteristics of your aid.

If your LSP doesn't dry without streaks without an aid I'd question it's suitability, or the towel you are using. 

If you feel you need an aid to get the results you want, you might be betting closing one with the enhanced gloss and hydrophobics you want, and then just use it regularly at each wash.

I don't think there is any aid that doesn't have some characteristics of its own.


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## ad_182_uk (Mar 2, 2014)

So just use a damp towel with normal to keep the lsp disturbence to a minimum?

No issues at the moment with streaking by the way. Just wondered if there was something that would help with drying without leaving something behind.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2020)

It's a nice feeling when water jumps off the surface into the towel leaving paint slick and dry, and I'll grant you that not all LSP's do this as well as the toppers and detailing sprays, but the LSP ought to be hydrophobic enough to make drying easy and if you want to maintain its characterising stick to just washing it with neutral soaps with no additives and get a good drying towel if you don't like the performance of your existing one.

I often use ECH20 as a waterless/detail spray to remove really minor dust and water marks and it doesn't leave much behind, but there is some, and it makes the surface noticeably more slick, and also seems to get way dustier than with just the cquartz alone. So I've been chasing up the ECH2O with Eraser, which easilly removes any residue, and leaves the surface a bit more grabby, and static free as are the qualities of the ceramic itself. It does seem to improve self cleaning and water behaviour to have nothing on top.

So you could consider an IPA/Eraser wipe down after any QD, but it is a bit OCD


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## ad_182_uk (Mar 2, 2014)

I am happy with the towels performance and yes the LSP after a neutral none addidtive shampoo wash still beads fine - thats the part i dont want to comprimise by using any dort of drying aid that would partially leave anything behind. 

I guess just a damp towel is the only way to go. ONR/ECH20 leave something behind, even diltued down?


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Diluted Megs Last Touch was always the go to. Whatever it leaves behind is very light and doesn't last long at all.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2020)

ad_182_uk said:


> I am happy with the towels performance and yes the LSP after a neutral none addidtive shampoo wash still beads fine - thats the part i dont want to comprimise by using any dort of drying aid that would partially leave anything behind.
> 
> I guess just a damp towel is the only way to go. ONR/ECH20 leave something behind, even diltued down?


ONR absolutely leaves something behind even at 255:1. It can be felt but it's debatable how much it effects the LSP it is sitting on. I personally do not like it or the company - just my opinion, but I've not tried it as a drying aid. I doubt it does a lot. ECH20 I would say leaves less than ONR when used at 20:1 or less, and over a ceramic I cannot see a difference in water behaviour, but I can feel the slickness and I'm not sure that is actually good thing. I don't feel it does much as a drying aid though. Water absorption when drying with or without it is the same on my cquartz coated car and it doesn't enhance gloss at all. Better to use it for rinse less and waterless and quick detailing IMO, and it is a superb product in that respect.


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## ad_182_uk (Mar 2, 2014)

Hmmm I’m stumped then. Even researching everyone goes on about the after affects of whatever it is they have used. I dont want any after affects i just want the LSP i last applied to be working as it was when first applied. 

Just cant seem to find anything that can aid drying without bells and whilstes about gloss and beading... my lsp should already be doing that. 

Looks like it literally will be just a damp towel dabbed.


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## Lexus-is250 (Feb 4, 2017)

ad_182_uk said:


> Hmmm I'm stumped then. Even researching everyone goes on about the after affects of whatever it is they have used. I dont want any after affects i just want the LSP i last applied to be working as it was when first applied.
> 
> Just cant seem to find anything that can aid drying without bells and whilstes about gloss and beading... my lsp should already be doing that.
> 
> Looks like it literally will be just a damp towel dabbed.


To be honest the only option will be adding more layers of your LSP. I have quick detailers but dont use them much.

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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

I have been trialling Koch Chemie FSe as a drying aid and while it maybe doesn't help mop up water like some other products, I can say from 3-4 weeks of using it that it hasn't yet altered the water behaviour in any significant way.

There is a separate thread on here where roscopervis is testing whether it will degrade LSPs over time. 

That said, I have conducted a couple of my own tests - on a coated and very hydrophobic surface and an unprotected panel. It hasn't noticeably altered water behaviour of the coated car I've been applying it to and on bare paint it added very little which seemed to fade away after a wash with Reset. I'll continue using it and will report back but in any case it's a product that won't go to waste in any detailer's collection with it's ability to remove any mineral deposits and 'free up' whatever protection is underneath.


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

Beadmaker works for me on a coated car


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

atbalfour said:


> I have been trialling Koch Chemie FSe as a drying aid and while it maybe doesn't help mop up water like some other products, I can say from 3-4 weeks of using it that it hasn't yet altered the water behaviour in any significant way.
> 
> There is a separate thread on here where roscopervis is testing whether it will degrade LSPs over time.
> 
> That said, I have conducted a couple of my own tests - on a coated and very hydrophobic surface and an unprotected panel. It hasn't noticeably altered water behaviour of the coated car I've been applying it to and on bare paint it added very little which seemed to fade away after a wash with Reset. I'll continue using it and will report back but in any case it's a product that won't go to waste in any detailer's collection with it's ability to remove any mineral deposits and 'free up' whatever protection is underneath.


This is a very useful potential option. My FSe test is about a month along and the car is due another wash so I'm hoping I'll soon start to see results, but as of the last wash, there was no discernable difference between the different products in terms of both effects upon durability and effects upon their natural water behaviour. One mistake has perhaps been using all fairly durable products to test the gamut, but not testing a 2-3 week QD to see the results accelerated. I'll try that another time.

My suggestion above of Meguiars Last Touch diluted 1:1 is probably what you are looking for otherwise. As I come from the olden days, this was what QD's used to do, quickly detail - just spritz around, but try not to affect what was underneath as in them days, products weren't as beady or durable as they are now. As such, the QD's were mostly for clay lubes/drying aids/going round the car before a car show but this one, especially diluted, does nothing to the cars beading or gloss levels, but it does smell nice and helps to break up a bit of water tension.


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## Stoner (Jun 25, 2010)

I have always used Megs Last Touch and had good results diluted as roscopervis mentions at 1:1. When my current 5 litres runs out, I will definitely give Koch Chemie a try because the reviews have been great and I like the way it deals with water spots if you haven't managed to dry it in time. :thumb:


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Eturty said:


> Beadmaker works for me on a coated car


Doesn't Beadmaker negatively impact the water behaviour of most products it goes on top of? Also, it is very slick and glossy so also would no doubt change other properties too?

For example, if you had a 'coated' bonnet, and applied Beadmaker to half of it, I think it would be obvious which half it was applied to. This is exactly what the OP is trying to avoid.


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

roscopervis said:


> Doesn't Beadmaker negatively impact the water behaviour of most products it goes on top of? Also, it is very slick and glossy so also would no doubt change other properties too?
> 
> For example, if you had a 'coated' bonnet, and applied Beadmaker to half of it, I think it would be obvious which half it was applied to. This is exactly what the OP is trying to avoid.


I dunno man, works fine for me

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## Guest (Jun 17, 2020)

atbalfour said:


> I have been trialling Koch Chemie FSe as a drying aid and while it maybe doesn't help mop up water like some other products, I can say from 3-4 weeks of using it that it hasn't yet altered the water behaviour in any significant way.
> 
> There is a separate thread on here where roscopervis is testing whether it will degrade LSPs over time.
> 
> That said, I have conducted a couple of my own tests - on a coated and very hydrophobic surface and an unprotected panel. It hasn't noticeably altered water behaviour of the coated car I've been applying it to and on bare paint it added very little which seemed to fade away after a wash with Reset. I'll continue using it and will report back but in any case it's a product that won't go to waste in any detailer's collection with it's ability to remove any mineral deposits and 'free up' whatever protection is underneath.


I felt the same way about FSE not altering water behaviour until I tried it on an uncoated car. It doesn't beed much, but it makes water sheet much faster and does have a degree of hydrophobicity. I never noticed much of a change using in on ceramic coating, but the feel of slickness is very noticeable, so ultimately it is leaving behind something.

Superb product though, and definitely removed hard water spots and calcium from coatings. You can feel the different with a baggy test in how much it cleans.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

DannyRS3 said:


> I felt the same way about FSE not altering water behaviour until I tried it on an uncoated car. It doesn't beed much, but it makes water sheet much faster and does have a degree of hydrophobicity. I never noticed much of a change using in on ceramic coating, but the feel of slickness is very noticeable, so ultimately it is leaving behind something.
> 
> Superb product though, and definitely removed hard water spots and calcium from coatings. You can feel the different with a baggy test in how much it cleans.


I've had the same experience Danny. I haven't quite sussed out FSe yet - I do agree it does something to the surface and my conclusion to date has been that it frees it up whatever is underneath to perform to it's maximum potential (hence the increase in slickness/gloss) rather than FSe leaving anything behind). I have no way of telling unfortunately.

In relation to the thread more generally, drying aids were something I wouldn't have been without a year ago. More recently I've been trying to think about it logically - ignore FSe, make the assumption that no product exists that will act as a drying aid without leaving something behind.

In my view this means that if you have a coated car using a drying aid could actually be counter productive not just to that coating's underlying performance but also makes decontaminating the car more difficult - especially where that drying aid contains protective, chemical resistant elements like sio2 or ti22 for example. Look at products like WetCoat, EasyCoat etc...

A car has a fresh surface which is coated, over time that coating will require decontamination. If you're applying layer upon layer of sacrificial product on top of that, would contamination get buried under a QD or spray sealant that is regularly applied meaning that (to a varying degree) it will be harder to remove?

For this reason I am now personally trying to leave the coating top ups and apply immediately after a decon so ensure as clean a surface and bond as possible.


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## Itstony (Jan 19, 2018)

I must add *Danny* I am a big FSE fan and probably written the same thing many times.
Used it on a car for months after weekly wash, no LSP as I had minor paint work to do prior to a full correction. 
The water behaviour was surprising. Not a beading person tbh, but notice it. The last time I wrote this I took a couple of pics of two cars with only FSE QD used, as there was this same topic, but never bothered to send them.
Not saying it was better than what people deem great, but it was there after rain.
very slick finish, always is. 
Also use it on my CC car too. makes life very easy. In fact, it's kind of spoils things as it a bit boring. 
Go's to show how people get different views on a product. So many variables to it as we know. I love the gear :thumb:


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2020)

atbalfour said:


> I've had the same experience Danny. I haven't quite sussed out FSe yet - I do agree it does something to the surface and my conclusion to date has been that it frees it up whatever is underneath to perform to it's maximum potential (hence the increase in slickness/gloss) rather than FSe leaving anything behind). I have no way of telling unfortunately.
> 
> In relation to the thread more generally, drying aids were something I wouldn't have been without a year ago. More recently I've been trying to think about it logically - ignore FSe, make the assumption that no product exists that will act as a drying aid without leaving something behind.
> 
> ...


Ceramic (without a topper) is by its nature quite grippy to the touch. FSE leaves it very slick. My deduction form that is it must be leaving something behind. This would be far less obvious if it were going over a topper like say reload which is also quite slippery. Try it in a car with bare paint and you will find the slickness its a very noticeable change.

I've come to the same conclusion about toppers in general. My cars live outside, I notice that the car get much dustier with reload/elixir or FSE on tops of cquartz, vs the bare coating which is really quite amazing at repelling dirt, and to continually add these layers that get detritus stuck to them without a good decontamination is certainly going to be layering contaminants between them, masking the base coating and making it harder to properly decontaminate the base coating fully and perform as it should. Currently I've recoated the top surfaces of my car and am giving it a wipe down with eraser after it's washed or quick detailed with ech20 and I'm much happier with the over all performance hydrophobicity, dust repellency and self cleaning then when I was using reload and hydro2 or the "sacrificial layer".

My intent now is to see how a base coating that is washed regularly with PH neutral reset only, and the occasional ironX and if needed spotless decontamination performs vs the layering of top coating I had been giving it regularly which never really showed me the potential of the base coating, and because so clogged with contaminants due to especially hard water, and likely far to aggressive alkaline washes with BH Auto-Foam that the hydrophobias really deteriorated quickly and left me continuously topping up with reload and hydro2. I think it's easy to get carried away with all these fantastic products on the market, but especially with a. ceramic coat you really don't need to do much at all other than basic maintenance. Tough when you are a bit OCD about detailing


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2020)

Itstony said:


> I must add *Danny* I am a big FSE fan and probably written the same thing many times.
> Used it on a car for months after weekly wash, no LSP as I had minor paint work to do prior to a full correction.
> The water behaviour was surprising. Not a beading person tbh, but notice it. The last time I wrote this I took a couple of pics of two cars with only FSE QD used, as there was this same topic, but never bothered to send them.
> Not saying it was better than what people deem great, but it was there after rain.
> ...


Totally agree, it's a great product. I bought it in bulk. It'll mostly get used for my shower doors now though I think.


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## Itstony (Jan 19, 2018)

Me too ^^^^^^^^ Danny, 11Kg I got and no regrets. Use it everywhere like you.
I often posted replies it's a good QD, but te slick and shiny finish some might not like. That MF slides off after. Not saying its the best, just very pleased I have it. 
Have said, if i had to vote for my best top products, FSE will be in there!


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## Radish293 (Mar 16, 2012)

I don't think Fse is intended to be a drying aid. But it's one hell of a good QD. Eats water spots insect residue and all sorts of crap. It leaves a really nice shine behind. I love the stuff and wouldn't be with out. It also removes the crappy gloss enhancer I had the misfortune to buy 5l of 

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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

DannyRS3 said:


> Ceramic (without a topper) is by its nature quite grippy to the touch. FSE leaves it very slick. My deduction form that is it must be leaving something behind. This would be far less obvious if it were going over a topper like say reload which is also quite slippery. Try it in a car with bare paint and you will find the slickness its a very noticeable change.
> 
> I've come to the same conclusion about toppers in general. My cars live outside, I notice that the car get much dustier with reload/elixir or FSE on tops of cquartz, vs the bare coating which is really quite amazing at repelling dirt, and to continually add these layers that get detritus stuck to them without a good decontamination is certainly going to be layering contaminants between them, masking the base coating and making it harder to properly decontaminate the base coating fully and perform as it should. Currently I've recoated the top surfaces of my car and am giving it a wipe down with eraser after it's washed or quick detailed with ech20 and I'm much happier with the over all performance hydrophobicity, dust repellency and self cleaning then when I was using reload and hydro2 or the "sacrificial layer".
> 
> My intent now is to see how a base coating that is washed regularly with PH neutral reset only, and the occasional ironX and if needed spotless decontamination performs vs the layering of top coating I had been giving it regularly which never really showed me the potential of the base coating, and because so clogged with contaminants due to especially hard water, and likely far to aggressive alkaline washes with BH Auto-Foam that the hydrophobias really deteriorated quickly and left me continuously topping up with reload and hydro2. I think it's easy to get carried away with all these fantastic products on the market, but especially with a. ceramic coat you really don't need to do much at all other than basic maintenance. Tough when you are a bit OCD about detailing


Yeah the performance on bare paint almost contradicts what I see when using it on top of Cancoat. Can't quite work it out but love it all the same.

Your point about Auto Foam is a big one I've been thinking about .. like it or not it does degrade the performance of those toppers, some more than others. Throw money down the drain on toppers vs. use the most effective pre-wash available and marr the paint less? I am really considering something properly chemically resistant like Cancoat as a sacrificial layer to combat this - helps that it adds a great look and hydrophobics unmatched by 99% of coatings.



Radish293 said:


> I don't think Fse is intended to be a drying aid. But it's one hell of a good QD. Eats water spots insect residue and all sorts of crap. It leaves a really nice shine behind. I love the stuff and wouldn't be with out. It also removes the crappy gloss enhancer I had the misfortune to buy 5l of
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Absolutely - don't think it was ever designed to be one but certainly does work. Not as well as the likes of Aqua Wax for mopping stuff up but it's a completely different product with a host of other benefits as you say!


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2020)

atbalfour said:


> Yeah the performance on bare paint almost contradicts what I see when using it on top of Cancoat. Can't quite work it out but love it all the same.
> 
> Your point about Auto Foam is a big one I've been thinking about .. like it or not it does degrade the performance of those toppers, some more than others. Throw money down the drain on toppers vs. use the most effective pre-wash available and marr the paint less? I am really considering something properly chemically resistant like Cancoat as a sacrificial layer to combat this - helps that it adds a great look and hydrophobics unmatched by 99% of coatings.


I love BH auto-foam, and find myself at a bit of a loss, as I'm positive it has degraded by ceramic coating substantially after 8 month of use at 4% PIR. I've often been able to foam and rinse and have the car absolutely clean. I know most neutral snow foams have nowhere near the cleaning power and are probably a waste of money. So it's back to a pressure rinse and 2 bucket wash I guess. I had been topping with reload, hydro2 and elixir to see which I liked best, but none have survived the auto-wash for long, and have no protected the base coat either. Cancoat isn't one I've played with yet, but even if it has near the chemical resistance of a full ceramic it will still be degraded rather quickly. Maybe lesser dilution say 1-2% of auto wash would do, but for me I think I't'll have to sit on the shelf. Avi at CarPro reminded me that the entire idea of ceramics is the things don't really stick to it, so harsh cleaners aren't required. It's a bit of a change of consciousness from more conventional sealants and waxes, and taken time to get my head around. Really wish I hadn't been using surfex HD to clean my coated wheels! They need to come off again!


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## TakDetails (Apr 25, 2020)

DannyRS3 said:


> I love BH auto-foam, and find myself at a bit of a loss, as I'm positive it has degraded by ceramic coating substantially after 8 month of use at 4% PIR. I've often been able to foam and rinse and have the car absolutely clean. I know most neutral snow foams have nowhere near the cleaning power and are probably a waste of money. So it's back to a pressure rinse and 2 bucket wash I guess. I had been topping with reload, hydro2 and elixir to see which I liked best, but none have survived the auto-wash for long, and have no protected the base coat either. Cancoat isn't one I've played with yet, but even if it has near the chemical resistance of a full ceramic it will still be degraded rather quickly. Maybe lesser dilution say 1-2% of auto wash would do, but for me I think I't'll have to sit on the shelf. Avi at CarPro reminded me that the entire idea of ceramics is the things don't really stick to it, so harsh cleaners aren't required. It's a bit of a change of consciousness from more conventional sealants and waxes, and taken time to get my head around. Really wish I hadn't been using surfex HD to clean my coated wheels! They need to come off again!


Would you give Wax Planet Eight Below a go? You may be surprised

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## Guest (Jun 17, 2020)

TakDetails said:


> Would you give Wax Planet Eight Below a go? You may be surprised


It's also a high alkaline product. Thats why it and BH clean as well as they do. But high PH are not that friendly to coatings.

Let me guess, forensic detailing channel subscriber?


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## TakDetails (Apr 25, 2020)

DannyRS3 said:


> Let me guess, forensic detailing channel subscriber?


You got me!

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## Loach (May 23, 2015)

The way that the topper behaves is dependent on whatever you have underneath of it. The way that the base layer protectant behaves is dependent on how healthy the paint is underneath of it, and possibly the type of paint used.

The healthiness of the LSP underneath of the topper before spraying can affect the way the entire system performs afterwards. Not all the same toppers are going to behave the same way on every LSP, and it's entirely reasonable that two people with different cars with the same LSP and topper in different areas of the world can come away with different results. 

If I sit and spray nothing but water down onto the paint with some waxes and sealants for a few minutes, this can negatively hinder their hydrophobic performance, they will begin to sheet slower and slower.

Bead Maker on top of fresh Polymer Net Shield and Fusso Coat reduced hydrophobic performance. Bead Maker on top of 6 months old CQuartz TiO2 boosted that coating's hydrophobic performance beyond what it was ever capable of when it was fresh, the opposite of what one would assume would happen.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

TakDetails said:


> Would you give Wax Planet Eight Below a go? You may be surprised
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Cancoat user here. I get 12+ months out of it comfortably while using autofoam at 4% PIR frequently. Don't think the issue is the AF.

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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

DannyRS3 said:


> It's also a high alkaline product. Thats why it and BH clean as well as they do. But high PH are not that friendly to coatings.
> 
> Let me guess, forensic detailing channel subscriber?


Meant to tag you danny in the above post 

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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

With regard to coatings and toppers, light touch is a good way to look after them - as has been said, you don't need to be aggressive as the coating/topper should be easy or easier to clean as the surface should repel the dirt much easier than would normally be the case.

However, every now and again, they do need to be hit with something to de-clog them (or whatever term you want to use). This has been something I have been thinking about since I coated my car back in September with Feynlab Ceramic and Topcoat. This thought was accelerated when the hydrophobic properties on the flat panels got really flat, quickly around 2 months later. I hadn't had a chance to use any top up products as it had only been washed 3 or 4 times. However, as I have said before, as a drying aid, using Last Touch diluted 1:1 will leave 'virtually' nothing on the paint and it will have gone within a few days, so by the next wash, it will have gone. A similar principle to car soaps that contain ingredients to help the water rinse quicker, but which only last on the panel a day or 2 before the underlying hydrophobic properties return. Similarly, FK425 diluted (more than 1:1) can do a similar job and if mixed with deionised water, I think can retain some of its anti static properties to help with dust and pollen being attracted to the car. I used nothing however, nothing light or heavier.

Traditionally, a chemical decon would be the suggestion, so using a tar remover and an iron remover to try and remove what would be sticking to the surface and killing the hydrophobics, often after a strong wash. On here, people are fond of PowerMaxed TFR for this purpose. I think in many cases, this may be the wrong answer, especially if you suspect the contamination isn't fallout or gluey tar related. Light touch.

Speaking of light touch, I've noticed on Autopia there has been a thread where Feynlab Pure Rinseless Wash has been found to be a sealant and wax killer when used as instructed as a rinseless wash much to the annoyance of some testers. However, it seems that it doesn't have a negative effect on full ceramic coats. The Feynlab Wash to be used for its ceramic coated cars has similarly strong chemistry to help keep the coating fresh. I've used this on my car, but that has also struggled to remove what was killing the hydrophobic properties on my car, much to the confusion of my Feynlab accredited buddy whose unit I 'borrowed' and products I purchased to put on my car. I'm not sure of it's pH, but it's strong, but didn't do the job.

So what did I do? My thinking had led me to think about using FSe and it worked a treat. Given the time of year and where I live, the surface was covered in tree sap and the remnants of leaves that had fallen from a big tree and had fallen onto the car, and had then blown off or I had removed.

So on my coated car at least, FSe I think is brilliant, not so much as a drying aid, but to keep the surface fairly contaminant free. When the time comes to clay the car, I'm confident that it will have far less bonded contaminants on it thanks to what FSe does. Of course, now I'm testing to see if that benefit carries over to 'regular' LSP's or whether the acid in FSe degrades these. I don't know yet.

As for Autofoam, again, with the light approach in mind, using it at 4% frequently on a well maintained car is probably overkill. I think a 1.5 -2% PIR is more than enough and is still more effective than most pH neutral snowfoams. Saying that, again referring back to my coated car, I didn't contact wash it at all between December 21st and April this year due to a variety of factors including the Corona. When I finally got around to washing it, I couldn't take it to my friend's unit and washing it on the road outside my house, opposite a busy health centre and pharmacy was not technically allowed, I had to think. I had seen this video by Labocosmetica which I found pretty interesting and had fitted with my FSe thoughts up until then:






So I took a strong (6% pir) mix of Autofoam to a petrol station jetwash and used it to try and see how it would fare against 4 months of winter. It revealed a lot of hydrophobic behaviour again, but it was far from touchless. I bit the bullet and got a longer hose and cable extension and started using the lane at the back of my house to wash the cars. I do think 4% Autofoam does affect some products quite a lot - BSD for one, but I don't think it affects ceramics, or at least Feynlab Ceramic/Topcoat and KKD R-Evolve and it doesn't seem to affect Crystal Sealant either. At 2% or even a bit lower, you should be ok with most products deemed durable enough to be topped by something like BSD and BSD, even if affected, will last plenty long enough to be reapplied at the next wash even if just topped up as a drying aid.

Sorry, I went on again. This is ADHD in full flow, which partly explains the wash gap between December and April.


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

Hey guys, sorry to bring up an old thread but I’ve been using beadmaker for a while now and while it may stream the odd panel it’s been OK. I’m planning on picking up some PA spritz but it’s a bit pricey to be using every wash. 

So my question is what drying aide work with with a coating and a waxed car? Currently looking at bilt hamber auto q.d. Not bothered if it has its own hydrophobic properties main thing is that it does negatively affect what ever is underneath and spreads in ok. 


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Eturty said:


> Hey guys, sorry to bring up an old thread but I've been using beadmaker for a while now and while it may stream the odd panel it's been OK. I'm planning on picking up some PA spritz but it's a bit pricey to be using every wash.
> 
> So my question is what drying aide work with with a coating and a waxed car? Currently looking at bilt hamber auto q.d. Not bothered if it has its own hydrophobic properties main thing is that it does negatively affect what ever is underneath and spreads in ok.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey Henri - out of interest what is your rationale for using a drying aid in the first place?

All it'll do is mask the coating and or topper, and where you have paid good money for them I would tend to avoid putting anything further, presumably you are looking for something cheap, on top.

If it's to aid drying, you don't get marring from a good towel drying technique. If it's to add gloss, the gains (if any) will be negligible - all I see a drying aid doing (much like an SiO2 infused shampoo) is sandwiching bonded contaminants (iron fallout, tar, traffic film) between layers of protection. If it's to make it more hydrophobic, unlikely given the products you're suggesting to use as your base and topper - ironically using a less hydrophobic product on top will just make your car bead and sheet less and therefore more difficult to dry the next time and the next time.

FWIW on the very odd occasion to tide me over to a bigger maintenance wash I occasionally use PA Cosmic as a drying aid, about 5 sprays will do a car after 90% of the water has been sheeted off. On a damp car a little goes a long way, that way you're just reinforcing what is a really really good LSP.


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

atbalfour said:


> Hey Henri - out of interest what is your rationale for using a drying aid in the first place?
> 
> All it'll do is mask the coating and or topper, and where you have paid good money for them I would tend to avoid putting anything further, presumably you are looking for something cheap, on top.
> 
> ...


If I'm honest dude I just like process, like to say there are probably quite a few drawbacks but I've always used the sheeting - drying aid technique. Also gives me a chance to keep trying new stuff.

But I agree I'll probably end up masking up stuffs more then helping it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Eturty said:


> If I'm honest dude I just like process, like to say there are probably quite a few drawbacks but I've always used the sheeting - drying aid technique. Also gives me a chance to keep trying new stuff.
> 
> But I agree I'll probably end up masking up stuffs more then helping it
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Completely get that, applying products is just fun. That said, when you spend big money on a coating and topper adding anything additional is just throwing away money. If I knew of a QD that could maintain or improve the combo I'd tell you lol - the standard to match is very very high but you'd expect it to be at that price. I think you'd become dangerously addicted to cosmic to mop up residual water - just a more logical way to throw away money though hahaha


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

atbalfour said:


> Completely get that, applying products is just fun. That said, when you spend big money on a coating and topper adding anything additional is just throwing away money. If I knew of a QD that could maintain or improve the combo I'd tell you lol - the standard to match is very very high but you'd expect it to be at that price. I think you'd become dangerously addicted to cosmic to mop up residual water - just a more logical way to throw away money though hahaha


I hear you fella, ill place on order with PA once my wallet has recovered and report back :thumb:


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Now I see why you want a drying aid... black super soft paint (thin too?). Would highly recommend a blower instead of any form of contact drying with a black car.

You can pick up a pet dryer for cheap, buy a Henry Hoover hose 5/10m and retrofit it and stick a cricket bat grip or similar over the tip in case of accidental contact with the paint.


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

atbalfour said:


> Now I see why you want a drying aid... black super soft paint (thin too?). Would highly recommend a blower instead of any form of contact drying with a black car.
> 
> You can pick up a pet dryer for cheap, buy a Henry Hoover hose 5/10m and retrofit it and stick a cricket bat grip or similar over the tip in case of accidental contact with the paint.


Already got a BLO GT dude 

I usually blo dry the paint then whatever residual is left i wipe down with a drying aid


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Eturty said:


> Already got a BLO GT dude
> 
> I usually blo dry the paint then whatever residual is left i wipe down with a drying aid


Ah good stuff


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