# Alloy wheel damaged by Tire Fitter



## v11nce (Jul 9, 2012)

Hi All,

Can someone confirm if the damage to the alloy wheel in the attached pictures has been caused by the tyre fitter?

I’m 99.99% sure it has but there is no way I can prove it, I just wish I had taken a picture of the alloy prior to them fitting the tyre. It’s a 19’ alloy with low profile fun flat tyre. Also what makes me even more suspicious it was them is that the guy changing it looked like he was barley out of school and twice he called the manager to help out. In fact the whole process took them around 40 minutes.

When I got to my car and inspected the alloy at the tyre place the manager said that it’s been caused by kerbing the wheel and that their machine would not be able to cause that kind of damage. 

Now if you look at the pictures you can clearly see a continuous pattern, circular dent, space, circular dent, space, circular dent space etc. This is around 1/4 of the alloy and there is no way such a perfect design can be caused by kerbing.

Does anyone know if this has definitely been caused by the machine used?

Also where do I legally stand? As I did not purchase the tyre from them (as they do not stock it), I just got them to replace the tyre and which they charged me £15 for.


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## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

To be fair, I'd say you're right, that or you've managed to find the smoothest ball bearing lined curb in all the world!!!

As to where you stand, I'm afraid IMO you don't really have a case, your word against them, learn from it and don't go back there again.

Obviously not what you want to hear but I can't imagine you're going to get anywhere!


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## v11nce (Jul 9, 2012)

The annoying thing is, prior to getting the tyre changed I contemplated taking a picture, but never did. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

It’s such a large amount of damage that I won’t be able to live with it and will have to fork out to get the alloy repaired.


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## Lemongrab (Jul 27, 2009)

Jesus, that really looks like the tire fitter had stumps instead of hands.


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

Do what I do mate, when you have your tyres replaced stand over them & make if very bloody plain, you dont want to damage my wheels do you mate :devil::devil:

Good job done & i give em a £5 as a thankyou for not making me mad :thumb:


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## SKY (Sep 25, 2011)

Its them tires they are a ****ing nightmare! 
Bridgestone 30 or 35 height dimension as well as being run flat - Michellin won't make them as they are nye on impossible to change.

When I had the same wheels on my 335d (2007) I had a special tyre fitter who worked for ATS. He made some special tools to aid him which was a string of large beads used inside the rim once the seal was broken.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I had to have my 19" BMW rims refurbished after a tyre fitter done the same. 

30/35 profile tyres are hard enough to fit. Runflats 10 times worse as they are rigid. 

No doubt the tyre fitter done that. You couldn't possibly hit a kerb like that and the marks appear to be a juddering affect. 

You should have looked before you left, but fresh marks should be obviously fresh. 

Take it back and see what they say.


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## -Simon- (Oct 29, 2010)

A real bummer, but as above I think you'll have to chalk it up to experience....


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## packard (Jun 8, 2009)

I always stand over and watch, chat with them and even make light comment e.g. Look at that mark, that took hours to get clean etc so they know you know the rims 100%..

Feeling your pain


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## G.P (Dec 13, 2011)

SKY said:


> Bridgestone 30 or 35 height dimension as well as being run flat - Michellin won't make them as they are nye on impossible to change.


Michelin do make them, but they are not keen as they like to produce comfort tyre's.

Strange looking damage through, not many places can change runflat's without damage. .


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## Robvw (Jul 8, 2012)

Defo tyre fitting, i suppose you could call the manager again and explain that you still believe the damage was caused by the fitter. could go higher to the head office and see if you can get anywhere. think you are going to have your work cut out. 

did you check them before taking the car in, if so and they said it was caused beforehand did you refuse to believe them then?


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## Barnyh (Sep 8, 2011)

Hello mate,

Depends how much hastle you want but I would get a body shop/wheel repair place to give you a second opinion and argue the point that you always keep your car clean and know every little mark on it. I would also get a quote for refurbing the alloy.

The same thing happened to me a while back and the tyre place sent me a cheque to cover the repair. 

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Barny


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## v11nce (Jul 9, 2012)

Robvw said:


> Defo tyre fitting, i suppose you could call the manager again and explain that you still believe the damage was caused by the fitter. could go higher to the head office and see if you can get anywhere. think you are going to have your work cut out.
> 
> did you check them before taking the car in, if so and they said it was caused beforehand did you refuse to believe them then?


Thing is it's an independent garage and the boss who I spoke to whilst there and who 'claimed' its due to kerbing is the man in charge.

Yeah I checked the prior to going there and there was 3 scruff marks, one of them you can see in the first pic (around the 3 o'clock position) around 1cm, the other two were light grazes, one being around 3 inches and the other around the same, maybe a little longer. Also non of them looked dirty/black as what the new damage looks like and goes 1/4 of the way around the wheel.

Whilst at the garage the tyre was dirty and had that white goo around it so the damage was not as noticeable and when I pointed out to the manager that my alloy had been damaged he said that it has been kerbed and their machines have rubber protection around them and are not able to cause that damage. It was only when I got home (by this time the garage had shut) and cleaned the wheel did I see the pattern around the rim which no way in a million years can be caused by kerbing.


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## Yowfailed (Mar 14, 2012)

That damage has undoubtedly been caused by the 'Shoe' that is lowered down to your rim and then locked off. This 'Shoe is then used as a pivot point for the tyre lever. Personally I would say that the rim was not seated on the machine bed correctly (Flat) and whilst going round in what would look like a buckled effect has hit the underside of the lowered metal shoe hence the pattern.
I would definitely go back and if necessary push it all the way to a small claims court. There are just too many of these cowboys out there.


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## The Autowerks (Mar 31, 2006)

Yowfailed said:


> That damage has undoubtedly been caused by the 'Shoe' that is lowered down to your rim and then locked off. This 'Shoe is then used as a pivot point for the tyre lever. Personally I would say that the rim was not seated on the machine bed correctly (Flat) and whilst going round in what would look like a buckled effect has hit the underside of the lowered metal shoe hence the pattern.
> I would definitely go back and if necessary push it all the way to a small claims court. There are just too many of these cowboys out there.


this is what forums are great for....people giving their personal opinions on a situation that could have a dozen different possibilities 

please don't go back to the tyre shop armed with the above explanation, the tyre shop will be far less likely to help you if you try to explain to them how they may have damaged your wheel.

yes...30 profile run flats are difficult to work with, but we manage to remove and refit them on freshly refurbed wheels.

i have my own theory on how the damage may have been caused by the machine, but it won't make a bit of difference to your case.

if i were you, i'd go back, say that you are sure that the wheel did not have that much damage when you brought it in and ask them to go halves on a refurb with you. you said yourself that the wheel had some kerb damage before, so going halves seems like the most you are likely to get out of this guy. might even be worth calling him and trying to sort it out over the phone, people seem to be far more confrontational when face to face.

hope you get it sorted


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## G.P (Dec 13, 2011)

The Autowerks said:


> i have my own theory on how the damage may have been caused by the machine, but it won't make a bit of difference to your case.


I'd like to know what your theory is, if you don't mind?


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

Kerbed, my ****.


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## v11nce (Jul 9, 2012)

Also I don't know if this detail helps, but it's the drivers side rear alloy. The least likely to get curb damage than any of the other 3 wheels. In fact the drivers side front has zero damage and the rear now looks like it's been put through a shredder!!!


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## The Autowerks (Mar 31, 2006)

G.P said:


> I'd like to know what your theory is, if you don't mind?


if the damage had been caused by the tyre fitter then that sort of damage would only have happened in the tyre off process as opposed to when refitting the tyre. (when removing a tyre you put vertical pressure on the shoe head, when refitting you're putting inwards pressure horizontally on the shoe head)

my reasoning for this - like you said, the shoe is lowered onto the lip of the wheel, the bead of the tyre is then pushed down in order to be able to get the lever underneath it and using the shoe as a pivot you pull the tyre over the knuckle of the shoe. on a low profile tyre, coupled with it being a run flat , if you haven't pushed the bead of the tyre down around the whole wheel before turning the table in order to remove the tyre the force of the tyre pulls on the lever and hence pulls the underside of the shoe onto the face of wheel, causing a scratch on the wheel. this will only happen for a portion of the tyre removal process, as the further the tyre is removed the less force there is being applied onto the lever and therefore onto the face of the wheel through the shoe.

the juddering look of the damage looks weird to me though, like it was just skipping over the face of the wheel, i'd normally expect to see a solid line of scratch if the above situation occurred.

there are many things you can do to avoid damaging a wheel when removing a tyre, unfortunately a lack of experience/concentration has resulted in a damaged wheel.

i must state, that the above is just a theory and my opinion of what MAY have happened. I'm only going by how my machine works and my own experience


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## The Autowerks (Mar 31, 2006)

v11nce said:


> Also I don't know if this detail helps, but it's the drivers side rear alloy. The least likely to get curb damage than any of the other 3 wheels. In fact the drivers side front has zero damage and the rear now looks like it's been put through a shredder!!!


but you said yourself there was kerb damage on the wheel before taking it to them, so in your case it's the drivers side front that is least likely to get kerb damaged and not the drivers side rear.

in any case, regardless of what wheel it is, i don't think that will make a difference.

i honestly think if you were to approach this guy and say 'let's go halves' I can't see why he would say no.


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## Yowfailed (Mar 14, 2012)

Like I said, the shoe has bounced off the rim!


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## v11nce (Jul 9, 2012)

Yeah there was very slight kerb damage in 3 places which had been there since I had purchased the car. My previous car which I had owned for over 10 years did not have a single mark on the driver’s side rear alloy (the other 3 alloys was a different story!)

I’m pretty certain that the damage was caused when trying to get the old tyre off as the young guy took close to 30 minutes and he called the manager as it appeared he was not having much luck and the manager was there for around 10-15 minutes. The manager was called again 5 minutes later, where I heard his say "am I supposed to do everything", when I’m assuming that they were attempting to put the alloy on the new tyre.


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## The Autowerks (Mar 31, 2006)

Yowfailed said:


> Like I said, the shoe has bounced off the rim!


sorry, but if that's what you meant, it's not how it read....or maybe i just misinterpreted it



Yowfailed said:


> Personally I would say that the rim was not seated on the machine bed correctly (Flat) and whilst going round in what would look like a buckled effect has hit the underside of the lowered metal shoe hence the pattern.


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## Fac (Mar 31, 2012)

Harry,
Just asking as you seem to be the man...
Have you ever had anyone say " hold on, nah I don't want him working on it " ?
If yeah how did you deal with it, what was the outcome did they just leave or listen to what you had to say and let your team work ?


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## masammut (Jul 13, 2011)

The fitter was not equipped to replace runflats. The tyre fitter I use purchased a special machine to replace these types of tyres.
I suggest you take it back and if they try to put the blame on you then ask them to remove and replace another tyre for you. If they do the same then you get them to cough up - if not then at least you tried - nothing to lose.


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## The Autowerks (Mar 31, 2006)

v11nce said:


> Yeah there was very slight kerb damage in 3 places which had been there since I had purchased the car. My previous car which I had owned for over 10 years did not have a single mark on the driver's side rear alloy (the other 3 alloys was a different story!)
> 
> I'm pretty certain that the damage was caused when trying to get the old tyre off as the young guy took close to 30 minutes and he called the manager as it appeared he was not having much luck and the manager was there for around 10-15 minutes. The manager was called again 5 minutes later, where I heard his say "am I supposed to do everything", when I'm assuming that they were attempting to put the alloy on the new tyre.


it is obvious from what you have said that they had a lot of trouble fitting this tyre, and as a consequence they probably did damage the wheel, but trying to build a case against them isn't going to help you in my opinion.

the facts as I understand them are these:

- you took your car in for a tyre change, wheel in question had a bit of kerb damage on it
- you get the car back and there is significantly more damage on it than there was before
- fitter obviously had trouble fitting tyre
- you challenge them on the damage caused and they said they didn't do it

you're obviously not going to get them to pay for a refurb, so offering to go halves seems to be the only logical thing to do. and considering there was some damage on the wheel to begin with i think that's the best result you're going to get out of this. unless you have the time and inclination to want to take it further to small claims courts as suggested.

you haven't said in any of your posts, but i am assuming they only fitted one tyre, because there is no way they could have had that much trouble with one tyre and been okay on another


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## G.P (Dec 13, 2011)

The Autowerks said:


> my reasoning for this - like you said, the shoe is lowered onto the lip of the wheel, the bead of the tyre is then pushed down in order to be able to get the lever underneath it and using the shoe as a pivot you pull the tyre over the knuckle of the shoe. on a low profile tyre, coupled with it being a run flat , if you haven't pushed the bead of the tyre down around the whole wheel before turning the table in order to remove the tyre the force of the tyre pulls on the lever and hence pulls the underside of the shoe onto the face of wheel, causing a scratch on the wheel. this will only happen for a portion of the tyre removal process, as the further the tyre is removed the less force there is being applied onto the lever and therefore onto the face of the wheel through the shoe.
> 
> the juddering look of the damage looks weird to me though, like it was just skipping over the face of the wheel, i'd normally expect to see a solid line of scratch if the above situation occurred.


Thats what I was thinking, normally the damage is a solid scrath, but as the chap spent quite a while trying to get the tyre off, he must have had a few goes and in the process it must be the shoe been forced onto the top of the wheel a number of time's. .


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## G.P (Dec 13, 2011)

The Autowerks said:


> unless you have the time and inclination to want to take it further to small claims courts as suggested.


Even if you have the time, I'm afraid for a £60/80 referb a small claims court is just not worth the bother, it'll cost you in the first place to book the court, and, as I'm sure your aware, if you were to not win the case you would then pay all cost's. .


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## The Autowerks (Mar 31, 2006)

Fac said:


> Harry,
> Just asking as you seem to be the man...
> Have you ever had anyone say " hold on, nah I don't want him working on it " ?
> If yeah how did you deal with it, what was the outcome did they just leave or listen to what you had to say and let your team work ?


yeah I have had people say it, and i ask them on what basis they think that that person is not qualified to undertake the work. if they have a genuine reason then i'll respect their request and do it myself.

if however, they don't want someone doing the work just because they are used to me doing it then it's a case of making them feel at ease enough for them to trust me to know that i'm confident in my fitters.


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## The Autowerks (Mar 31, 2006)

G.P said:


> Even if you have the time, I'm afraid for a £60/80 referb a small claims court is just not worth the bother, it'll cost you in the first place to book the court, and, as I'm sure your aware, if you were to not win the case you would then pay all cost's. .


my sentiments exactly...far better trying to resolve the situation between the two parties rather than threatening him with court action.


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## The Autowerks (Mar 31, 2006)

G.P said:


> Thats what I was thinking, normally the damage is a solid scrath, but as the chap spent quite a while trying to get the tyre off, he must have had a few goes and in the process it must be the shoe been forced onto the top of the wheel a number of time's. .


might just have been an old tyre machine with a lot of play in the arm and it kept bouncing off the wheel, but even then.....it's not damage that i have ever seen happen on a tyre machine, or what i should say is it's not damage i have ever seen happen on OUR tyre machine, as that's all i'm experience with


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## jenks (Apr 20, 2009)

Smae happened to me a while back. Bought a couple of tyre off ebay and took them to a fitter. As I was leaving decided to check, mainly to ensure fitted the correct orientation and noticed damage to the spokes, where the hub thing is fitted to balance the wheel.
Went straight back and of course he denide it. I got a bit irate and next thing he had 4 large inbred guys behind him. Time to leave and chalk it up to experience


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## v11nce (Jul 9, 2012)

The Autowerks said:


> it is obvious from what you have said that they had a lot of trouble fitting this tyre, and as a consequence they probably did damage the wheel, but trying to build a case against them isn't going to help you in my opinion.
> 
> the facts as I understand them are these:
> 
> ...


Harry, it was only the one tyre that needed changing and to be honest I don't think I'm going to get much help from the manager in regards to going halves as when he looked at it initially his words were "I swear on my life that we did not cause that damage, it's been kerbed".


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## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

When I had the same wheels on my 335d (2007) I had a special tyre fitter who worked for ATS. He made some special tools to aid him which was a string of large beads used inside the rim once the seal was broken.[/QUOTE]

Just to clarify, you had a special guy at ATS who used a string of large beads inside your RIM..................

Nice! :lol:


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## The Autowerks (Mar 31, 2006)

v11nce said:


> Harry, it was only the one tyre that needed changing and to be honest I don't think I'm going to get much help from the manager in regards to going halves as when he looked at it initially his words were "I swear on my life that we did not cause that damage, it's been kerbed".





s.bailey said:


> When I had the same wheels on my 335d (2007) I had a special tyre fitter who worked for ATS. He made some special tools to aid him which was a string of large beads used inside the rim once the seal was broken.


You dont ask...you dont get. You got nothing to lose.

Just to clarify, you had a special guy at ATS who used a string of large beads inside your RIM..................

Nice! :lol:[/QUOTE]

Hahahahha....we dont even give that level of customer service!!


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## v11nce (Jul 9, 2012)

I may just have to take this on the chin and move on, as I may end up doing something I regret if I went back to the garage. The place is an independent garage who mainly carry out MOT’s and Servicing and who I used to go to with my old car. I’ve also recommended them in the past to friends/family, however I’ll be telling them all of my experience and the garage will lose £1,000+ each year in lost business.

Can anyone recommend any quality places where I can get it my alloy refurbished? I’m in London.

Also based on the damage what would be a better option, a mobile service or one where they need the alloy for 3-5 days?


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

I'm pretty sure the consistent black marks is the transfer of rubber onto wheel from the ridged marks on the inside to the tyre.

So two questions: 

Is the wheel badly scratched along all area the black marks are in, or just right at each of the marks with undamaged ether side of each mark??

On the top right of your photo will all the marks come off with some tar remover?


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## herbiedacious (Sep 27, 2010)

Like Bero says, is the laquer damaged or just marked?
Your next problem will be getting the rim off again. (A)Did he put the locking wheel nut key back where it should be? and (B) Did he put the wheel back on with an air gun or was it torqued up properly?
Worth checking the inner rim for clamp marks too.


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## The Autowerks (Mar 31, 2006)

v11nce said:


> I may just have to take this on the chin and move on, as I may end up doing something I regret if I went back to the garage. The place is an independent garage who mainly carry out MOT's and Servicing and who I used to go to with my old car. I've also recommended them in the past to friends/family, however I'll be telling them all of my experience and the garage will lose £1,000+ each year in lost business.
> 
> Can anyone recommend any quality places where I can get it my alloy refurbished? I'm in London.
> 
> Also based on the damage what would be a better option, a mobile service or one where they need the alloy for 3-5 days?


if you explain that to him (i suggest over the phone) you might just get him to see reason

and as for the wheel to be refurbed.....heeeeelllLLLOOOOOOO :thumb:

we can even put a spare wheel on it so that you don't have to be without the car.



Bero said:


> I'm pretty sure the consistent black marks is the transfer of rubber onto wheel from the ridged marks on the inside to the tyre.
> 
> So two questions:
> 
> ...


it doesn't look like rubber transfer, i know what you mean though...but it actually looks like scuffs in the powdercoat


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## v11nce (Jul 9, 2012)

Hi Guys, the wheels are scratched where the black marks are in so unfortunately there is no way that can be cleaned.

I saw him take the wheel off and put it back on again using an air gun, so he definitely did not use a torque wrench.


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## [email protected] (Apr 28, 2011)

Name and shame the place


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