# Getting frightened



## Aargee (Oct 5, 2012)

Barring the Meguiar's Deep Crystal Polish, I bought Bosch GPO 12 CE yesterday. This part of the world I live, it's way too expensive machine (costs about the monthly income of an average person )

Anyway the financial damage is done already, no point fuming; after polishing my CBR 250R's tank & noticing holograms, I'm petrified :doublesho

I'm beginning to think if I've made a mistake by buying this machine; I should've probably stopped my passion just with admiring the beauty of vehicles rather than getting into the hobby.

I'm completely lost & don't know what where how to proceed; especially in this part of the world, where people do not know what a wash-mitt is, forget alone the cutting & polishing pads. These things must not even be available!!!

I'm seriously giving a thought to sell this machine; do you guys have experienced the same or you guys were able to do off well? Pls help.










PS - I'm not even sure if I'm fitting these things properly as I'm unable to find few accessories as listed in the manual 
PPS - I don't even know if this is a rotary or just regular DA machine


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## xScotty (Apr 21, 2012)

You've just gone and straight used a wool pad?
You didn't use a light polish and pad to start?
You are going to have to work the way up now to make it so that it polishes those out, I would borrow a paint thickness gauge first!


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## Aargee (Oct 5, 2012)

xScotty said:


> You've just gone and straight used a wool pad?


Oh!!! So on what circumstances do we use a wool pad? For buffing?



xScotty said:


> You didn't use a light polish and pad to start?


Like I said, this part of the world is yet to gear up for detailing; I guess only 3M supplies it. Right now I'm on call with 3M, but they aren't picking up the phone for over 5 minutes now 



xScotty said:


> You are going to have to work the way up now to make it so that it polishes those out


Can I not use wool pad extensively to get out of those minor swirl marks?



xScotty said:


> I would borrow a paint thickness gauge first!


Shoots!!!


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

नमस्ते Aargee

Have another look on here, take your time.

John.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

The machine you have is a rotary. 

The wool head in the picture is classed as very aggressive

The polish in the picture is NOT a machine polish and NOT to be used with wool. 

Aargee, may I suggest you buy a couple of foam pads also, a finishing one, and a polishing one, and a couple of machine polishes to use with them. If you practice with the finishing foam and a finishing polish there is a much smaller chance of you damaging your paint during this :thumb:

Matt


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## Aargee (Oct 5, 2012)

stangalang said:


> The wool head in the picture is classed as very aggressive


Thank you very much  Is it more aggressive than the Yellow/Orange & Green pads?



stangalang said:


> The polish in the picture is NOT a machine polish and NOT to be used with wool


Thanks 



stangalang said:


> may I suggest you buy a couple of foam pads also, a finishing one, and a polishing one, and a couple of machine polishes to use with them


Well...I don't know where to get them from. Please see my agony here  - http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=283702



stangalang said:


> If you practice with the finishing foam and a finishing polish there is a much smaller chance of you damaging your paint during this


Sure Matt, I WILL follow your suggestions


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## pe2dave (Oct 11, 2012)

As I understand it, and quite contrary to what I might expect.
Using foam (various grades) is 'normal' for polishing. Except the definition of polishing isn't what my wife does to the dining room table. It is abrading the surface (even if very finely) to make it smoother. Polishes, and the pads to go with the different types of polishes, vary from course to fine, just as with sandpaper.

The above pad, wool, and also microfibre pads, although they would seem to be 'soft', i.e. fit for buffing up my dining room table, are 'aggessive' in so far as they seem to mark the surface of paint. Why? I don't pretend to understand.

Using a random orbital polisher (usually called a DA or dual action) I found that
http://www.chemicalguysuk.com/Hex_Logic_Buffing_Pads_s/51.htm this page shows a range of pads going from harsh / aggressive through to ... whatever you want to call fine. So to tickle the surface and not inflict wounds, you want a 'finishing' pad (black in colour on that page).

Jargon is often the hardest part of learning a new area of knowledge.

I respectfully suggest you put down the polisher and do some more reading. I believe you can retrieve the mirror finish, you just need more info on tools and techniques?

HTH Dave


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## Aargee (Oct 5, 2012)

pe2dave said:


> I respectfully suggest you put down the polisher and do some more reading. I believe you can retrieve the mirror finish, you just need more info on tools and techniques?


I WILL, I WILL, I WILL & that's the prime objective as why I joined this community. Since this forum is full of information scattered all over, I'm unable to start with.

I see Dave K G PDF guide on DA polisher, then after a while come across pads (Green for heavy polishing, Yellow/Orange for heavy cutting, white for medium cut etc), then after a while discussion on dash board detailing, then comes product reviews. Then like you said, the abbreviations...whew!!!

I've kept this thread opened - http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=134803 always, yet I don't find some of the abbreviation mentioned here 

So until I get the flow, this is the hardest way to learn  But that will not deter me from acquiring the knowledge

PS - Whatever you said above...wonderful & brilliant, word by word, they're absolutely true. But like Titanium says, TIME is what it takes to build until then...my nervousness continues without any confidence on my work


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## PWOOD (Apr 30, 2007)

For the amount of actual bodywork a motorbike has working by hand would be far safer. Get some autoglym Super resin polish and use that over the tank of the bike several times by hand working in circular and back and forth motions. Ideally using a foam cutting pad but a cotton cloth will do the job. If it removes the holograms then apply a wax. If not then list what polishes you can get hold of and someone will be along to put you on the right path. Paint depth gauge is really required to avoid you going through the paint.


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## Aargee (Oct 5, 2012)

Update - Finally got hold of 3M sales in charge in my region; they've sent my email to the dealer in my locality & asked to get in touch with me. I hope I'll have to remind them one more time today (as that is how things work in this part of the planet; it's more of sellers market than buyers)

For now, this is what I've asked...
1. Two 4 inch foam pads; one for polishing & one for finishing + corresponding back pad
2. One 4 inch medium heavy cut scratch & swirl remover pad
3. One 4 inch medium light polishing pad
4. One medium rubbing/cutting compound
5. One light rubbing/cutting compound

Is this fine to begin with or did I make any mistakes? Please guide. Thanks.


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## pe2dave (Oct 11, 2012)

Just a caution? You say 
4. One medium rubbing/cutting compound
5. One light rubbing/cutting compound

To my way that sounds pretty course 'polishes'? What makes please?
A lesson I picked up was to first try with a fine pad or polish,
and only move on to a courser one if that didn't work?
Your use of 'compound' makes me think of not so fine polishes, and I thought you
were just trying to get rid of tiny scratches in the surface? 
I'll leave it to others to suggest appropriate polishes.


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## Aargee (Oct 5, 2012)

pe2dave said:


> Just a caution? You say
> 4. One medium rubbing/cutting compound
> 5. One light rubbing/cutting compound


That's how 3M calls it...unfortunately  They don't know the meaning of medium cut & light cut; they call it stage 1, stage 2



pe2dave said:


> To my way that sounds pretty course 'polishes'? What makes please?


3M - solutions.3mindia.co.in (I doubt if the products are listed there)



pe2dave said:


> A lesson I picked up was to first try with a fine pad or polish, and only move on to a courser one if that didn't work?


Good idea, but, getting hold of 3M & getting one product is like big deal especially on a niche market like India where they're interested ONLY IF you're a big time player. I'm just a hobbyist & they're asking me how many litres & kilograms I need :doublesho



pe2dave said:


> Your use of 'compound' makes me think of not so fine polishes, and I thought you were just trying to get rid of tiny scratches in the surface?


I'm learning & I'm very passionate about keeping my rides neat & tidy & I enjoy doing them & have been doing them for over 15 years.

*Update* - _Got hold of 3M India & those guys are trying to sell me in bulk quantities rather than talking about small bottles of atleast 500ml_  Despite the exorbitant cost, I don't know what will I do with the remaining. May be those excess will last a lifetime for me & will never make me even think of trying out a different brand


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## Aargee (Oct 5, 2012)

I guess 3M has given up on me  They never called me back or I think I need to give them a call back.

But then it strike to me that, these guys are in the market too - http://www.wuerth.in/web/en/website/contact_2/overview/contactus.php

So I gave them a call & spoke to their locality incharge for a good 40 minutes; here's the summary of the discussions...
- They're very interested to provide products...PROVIDED...I'm starting a business. No support for hobby (as if they're supplying free for hobbies)
- They only have 2 types of polishes; one is rubbing compound & other one polishing compound :doublesho
- All other words such as heavy cut, light cut, medium cut sounded greek & latin to them. They tried generalizing saying these 2 compounds will work wonders than the regular products like light, medium & heavy cutting compounds 
- They only have wool pad or foam pad, which is good, but then, it looks like they sell more wool pad than foam pads as most people around prefer wool pads
- When I asked for hex cut pads, they say, they don't have any such products!!!
- They only have yellow, white & red colored pads; all other colors are unknown to them
- 4" pads fit perfectly only on Wurth DA machine (not sure if they have even a DA or just rotary) & I'm not sure if they know the difference between back plate & back pad 

Now...this is the condition prevailing here...seriously...I'm frightened to the core as the thread title says


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## pe2dave (Oct 11, 2012)

Aargee said:


> - 4" pads fit perfectly only on Wurth DA machine


Of note, For a DA, there is about a one inch overlap from the machine disk to the attached pad, i.e. the pad is larger by about 2 inches. The reason being to stop you grinding away at an adjacent panel when the edge of the pad touches. Take care that you are using the right size, i.e. your definition of 'fits' matches what the machine maker intended?


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## Aargee (Oct 5, 2012)

pe2dave said:


> Of note, For a DA...the machine maker intended?


Yes, Thanks; but you see, the backplate (or backpad what they call here) has to get screwed into my Bosch DA. So these guys were saying that, the 4" back pads supplied by Wurth is direct fit to Wurth DA. However, anything about 5" back pads from Wurth are direct fit to Bosch DA.

Hope you got my point (the damn concerns in this country)


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## Aargee (Oct 5, 2012)

*Question on DA machine*

I've a Bosch GPO 12 CE DA

Do I need to buy this adapter? My understanding goes that, this adapter is required only for a circular motion machine to make it a DA.










I'm under the impression that I can buy back*pads* like below of different sizes (4", 5" & 6") & their corresponding foam pads to get going. *Please guide if I've misunderstood anything. Thanks.*


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## voon (Apr 28, 2010)

A wool pad and a rota for a beginner ... that's hilarious. I guess short of sandblasting, there's no other way to ger rid of all your coat faster if you're not handling it right .. or happily putting holograms into your coat  Put that pad into your cabinet and forget it for a while. Put hardcore polish compounds next to it, forget about them as well.

I just suggest you only use a medium and light/glossfinish pad, and only a medium and light/finish 3M/Menzerna/etc polish compound for first tries. And maybe try things on a used bonnet from a scrap heap. Keep the machine moving at all times, never stay in one spot etc, watch a few youtube movies on the topic. With just that you can try your first steps, but go easy, try lightweight stuff first. I use 3m 09375 and 09376 ... machine polishes. Yours I guess are called "rubbing" because they also server as manually usable stuff. 

With just that, it's not magic, although I use a flex 3401 excenter, because I'm a noob, too. But with that, I had already a lot of effect on hard BMW coats ... obviously not the hardest scratches, but hairlines vanish. Can't say anything on the pads, though.


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## Aargee (Oct 5, 2012)

voon said:


> A wool pad and a rota for a beginner...polish compounds next to it, forget about them as well


Thank you for the sarcasm; pls read my other posts as well where you'll come to know getting hold of even a foam pad is extremely difficult in this part of the world. I agree I'm complete new to detailing, nevertheless, I've loads of passion nor looking there to make quick buck. Tks for your suggestions, appreciate it 



voon said:


> I just suggest you only use a medium and light/glossfinish pankd, and only a medium and light/finish 3M/Menzerna/etc


Will do; 3M only selling 2 compounds; rubbing & polishing; I think rubbing compound is what we call medium-heavy cut & polishing is finishing/polishing (or may be finishing, which I seldom doubt) cut



voon said:


> watch a few youtube movies on the topic


Yes, Junkman's videos brought lots of confidence 



voon said:


> I use 3m 09375 and 09376 machine polishes


Thanks; let me inquire if 3M sells those stuffs here 



voon said:


> Yours I guess are called "rubbing" because they also server as manually usable stuff


No no, 3M clearly said they're to be used with Bosch (looks like 3M-Bosch partners)



voon said:


> Can't say anything on the pads, though.


Oh!!! ok; that is what I'm looking in addition to suggestions on adapters


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## hibberd (Jul 5, 2006)

Gents, I cannot add to the general discussion as such, my knowledge is not sufficient but I would like to say how impressed I am with the way people have tried to help and advise, it says a huge amount about the quality of the members on this site.


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## pe2dave (Oct 11, 2012)

Aargee said:


> *Question on DA machine*
> 
> I've a Bosch GPO 12 CE DA
> 
> Do I need to buy this adapter? My understanding goes that, this adapter is required only for a circular motion machine to make it a DA.


I am not speaking from experience.
My DA has a female thread, so all the plates have a male thread? I would suggest that adaptor is for another (different) type of plate?

The 'counter weight' at the side would seem to suggest that the polisher runs eccentrically, and hence that weight balances out the impact of the eccentric rotation, but that is just a guess.

HTH


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## l3aldo (Feb 26, 2010)

Dont be scared to use it - I was in the same boat as you, bought a Makita rotary, cutting, polishing and finishing pads. I got a couple of different cuts of polish and had a play around. Its not as hard as some make it out to be


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## traplin (Feb 22, 2012)

its really easy to get it right...but equally as easy to mess it all up. As suggested...read then cautiously start. By the time you've done 5 mins on panel you'll get the hang of how the machine works, feels and moves along the paint. You'll will learn fast because it really isn't a complex thing...it just requires a bit of experience. The reservations about machine polishing are misplaced...it's in the difficulty but in the risk of damaging the paint. 

Saying all of this I did make mistakes when I did my misses car and there are 3 tell tale signs of my errors but it was the risk I was prepared to take which allowed me to learn...no mistakes when I did my car! lololol!

In all you do just be really careful of any edges, seams, raised sections etc where the pad will not be flat as these are the areas where damage is so much easier to occur. (as I learned) Don't polish across 2 panels i.e. when you get to the edge of 1 door, don't let the pad drift across the gap onto the next door. 

Best place to start for ease is on a nice flat horizontal panel like the bonnet BUT it's also the area that will show up any errors the most. If you can get a spare panel and practice this will be ideal.


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## Aargee (Oct 5, 2012)

*Thanks to all of you who've encouraged me  I really appreciate & it did motivate me*.

Though I was in hibernation, but not the passion inside me...

While I didn't make posts here, these are few things that happened...

- Talked to 3M & found they were selling compounds & pads that are more suitable for rotary (and they claimed it works with DA too)
- Meanwhile talked with Wurth India & they too agreed to supply & help me even start a business (whoa!!!)
- The best thing that happened was ---> http://meguiars.co.in

Finally found Meguiar's doing business in India 

I spoke with them & they promptly called me back (turned out to be that 3M had bought Meguiar's huh!!!) explaining what products they have. All the showcases here in this forum on M105 & M205 are slightly beyond their limits, nevertheless, they said they could supply the products in gallons. Most common products are like 85 (or 95 something like that). They were saying M105 was way too aggressive; looks like I need more than basic education  More than watching videos  before even touching a paint panel (forget the car for now)

They didn't stock up Hex cut pads, but said they could get me in about 90 days. To me it's fine as long as I'm assured of getting one. Forgot to ask about backpads though.

All said, I see some hope at the end of the tunnel

PS - I thought the DA machine was the most expensive one...now it seems that all these compounds, backpads & pads are going to work out twice as much as the DA machine


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## Aargee (Oct 5, 2012)

For now I've been following Mr Junkman's videos; they're simple to understand, inspiring & boosting my confidence. If you've come across any good & simple educational videos, kindly share. A Million Thanks to you in advance.

I'm planning to ditch M105 for the moment & go with M205, 5" back plate & 4/5" back pad (Purple & Black color from Meguiars). This is primarily because, I'm not looking to do business, but, to remove very very minor scratches, swirl marks, holograms & basically have a mirror like finish on the paint surface. Please provide your suggestion if this is OK. Thanks.

PS - I've other things like Car shampoo, ONR, Collinite, Tire foam, Claybar, Metal wax & plenty of MF's


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