# Anyone else given up on foams



## Clean-my-sxi

Ive tried many foams over the years from magifoam, valet pro, autosmart actimoose, and bh autofoam and more but never find it actually cleans much of the dirt off. Makes a bloody mess of the driveway though, which meant additional time spent cleaning up

Yesturday i decided to just use some bh autofoam in a pump sprayer, seemed to work better then the foams had tbh.

Apart from the fun side of the foam im starting to wonder if to give up on foams and just go for a cleaner in a pump sprayer

Any opinions welcome or maybe youve found the same thing


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## Luke M

I have never tried a snow foam. Started with a pressure sprayer and never felt the need to change.


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## Guest

Yep, for all the reasons you've outlined. Now use a pre wash cleanser in a pump sprayer with better results.


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## Clean-my-sxi

Hugh said:


> Yep, for all the reasons you've outlined. Now use a pre wash cleanser in a pump sprayer with better results.


What you using buddy


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## Citygo

Yes mate. Got the lance out today as I thought I might give it another go but didn't bother. Just used some super diluted tfr in a pump sprayer. TBH the lance and foam is just a pain in the ****.


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## Soul boy 68

I will always use snow foam no matter what, it's in my detailing bible somewhere


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## Guest

Clean-my-sxi said:


> What you using buddy


Car Chem TFR or Valet Pro citrus pre wash.


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## Bevvo

Apart from softening the dirt, I find that they do very little in the way of cleaning. When mine has run out I will probably continue to use the snowfoam lance but with a shampoo mix instead.


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## TonyH38

I gave it up after using once did not see the point of it.


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## wee man

Just starting but after reading about using pressure sprayers rather than foam I bought a pressure sprayer find it works well my foam was watery and did not seem to do much.

Wee Man


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## neilmcl

Clean-my-sxi said:


> Ive tried many foams over the years from magifoam, valet pro, autosmart actimoose, and bh autofoam and more but never find it actually cleans much of the dirt off. Makes a bloody mess of the driveway though, which meant additional time spent cleaning up
> 
> Yesturday i decided to just use some bh autofoam in a pump sprayer, seemed to work better then the foams had tbh.
> 
> Apart from the fun side of the foam im starting to wonder if to give up on foams and just go for a cleaner in a pump sprayer
> 
> Any opinions welcome or maybe youve found the same thing


I'v been doing the same with BH Autofoam since my lance bit the dust at the beginning of the year. This has become my pre-wash method of choice now. Much more economical using it this way and imho cleans better than it did as a foam.


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## bigkahunaburger

Clean-my-sxi said:


> Ive tried many foams over the years from magifoam, valet pro, autosmart actimoose, and bh autofoam and more but never find it actually cleans much of the dirt off. Makes a bloody mess of the driveway though, which meant additional time spent cleaning up
> 
> Yesturday i decided to just use some bh autofoam in a pump sprayer, seemed to work better then the foams had tbh.
> 
> Apart from the fun side of the foam im starting to wonder if to give up on foams and just go for a cleaner in a pump sprayer
> 
> Any opinions welcome or maybe youve found the same thing


Exactly the same here. BH Auto Foam or ODK Arctic in a pump sprayer. Quicker, easier, cheaper and more effective. Foaming is great fun though.


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## Brian1612

Plenty of videos on here and the internet to prove they work and very well if you need convincing. I for one wouldn't consider touching my car if dirty after seeing how effective a pre wash is over just a pressure wash.


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## Mr Kirk

And the best pressure sprayer is.........?


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## ScoobyDan

Used loads of foams over the years but since I started using Powermaxed TFR through a pump sprayer I won't be going back to foaming anytime soon.


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## Tim662

I've stopped using it as a pre wash as it doesn't remove that much extra, if any.

What I will do though, is use a shampoo like adams and foam that over the car before starting a 2 bucket wash. Adds loads of extra lubrication and also stops water spots if washing in the sun.


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## wanner69

I've just done a thread

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=388060


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## JoeyJoeJo

I've seen head to head comparisons, and people doing panels to show side by side with and without but I've not seen anyone do prewash + pressure washer on one panel and straight pressure washer on the other. Has such a comparison been posted?

With decent protection, presumably a decent pressure wash will (or should?) remove a good deal of grime?


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## shine247

I have used various foams over the years and sadly still have residual amounts of each. Most recently using AF foam but also have BH and do use it via pump sprayer with warm water. I feel a good drenching with foam is better when the car is very dirty (if that ever happens :lol, particularly if there is a lot of leaves etc. thrown up behind the wheels.

In the end, I am pretty much satisfied with what I choose at the time, I want to see virtually no dirt in my buckets and that's generally the case. So I will continue with both for now. I do wonder about the use of Sodium Hydroxide in the foams but I suppose it is heavily diluted, BH does not have any paint dulling attributes so that is a big plus. It is up to the job in most cases and it can be used in a lance anyway, just uses a lot more.


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## kingswood

Clean-my-sxi said:


> Ive tried many foams over the years from magifoam, valet pro, autosmart actimoose, and bh autofoam and more but never find it actually cleans much of the dirt off. Makes a bloody mess of the driveway though, which meant additional time spent cleaning up
> 
> Yesturday i decided to just use some bh autofoam in a pump sprayer, seemed to work better then the foams had tbh.
> 
> Apart from the fun side of the foam im starting to wonder if to give up on foams and just go for a cleaner in a pump sprayer
> 
> Any opinions welcome or maybe youve found the same thing


me too, looks cool but its an hassle. pump spray all the way now


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## suds

And I thought from recent posts that people were a bit fed-up with priming the pump sprayer repeatedly in order to soak the car?


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## Paul7189

I use my snow foam as a clay mitt lubricant so it makes sense to use it for its intended use as ill only make it up anyway.


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## wish wash

For me foams are there to soak in and loosen dirt and reduce the risks of washing. If you use your car daily you will have more use from them, compared to myself who use the car as a weekend car that doesn't see rain. I use to use foam years ago until I got into ceramic coatings. For me I have no use for foam.


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## DLGWRX02

JoeyJoeJo said:


> I've seen head to head comparisons, and people doing panels to show side by side with and without but I've not seen anyone do prewash + pressure washer on one panel and straight pressure washer on the other. Has such a comparison been posted?
> 
> With decent protection, presumably a decent pressure wash will (or should?) remove a good deal of grime?


Done this on mine today, massive difference in comparison.


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## JoeyJoeJo

DLGWRX02 said:


> Done this on mine today, massive difference in comparison.


I did see that thread but misread and didn't think you'd hosed the lhs!

Perfect illustration in that case!


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## Soul boy 68

DLGWRX02 said:


> Done this on mine today, massive difference in comparison.


You see now this dispels the mith that foams don't work as they should or they're not worth it, me give them up? Never :detailer:


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## dholdi

suds said:


> And I thought from recent posts that people were a bit fed-up with priming the pump sprayer repeatedly in order to soak the car?


I've got one of the 5 litre ones and I usually half fill it to do one car.
I find I have to pump it once till the relief valve blows then once more about half way through.
I did toy with the idea of fitting a tyre valve to it so I could pressurise it with the compressor, but tbh it only takes a few seconds to pressurise it.


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## cadmunkey

Have to admit, having tried power maxed TFR during Nov/Dec I'm not sure I'll go back to foams anymore.


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## cheekymonkey

Clean-my-sxi said:


> Ive tried many foams over the years from magifoam, valet pro, autosmart actimoose, and bh autofoam and more but never find it actually cleans much of the dirt off. Makes a bloody mess of the driveway though, which meant additional time spent cleaning up
> 
> Yesturday i decided to just use some bh autofoam in a pump sprayer, seemed to work better then the foams had tbh.
> 
> Apart from the fun side of the foam im starting to wonder if to give up on foams and just go for a cleaner in a pump sprayer
> 
> Any opinions welcome or maybe youve found the same thing


the title says you have give up on foams, yet you use BH autofoam through a pump sprayer. Since when has BH autofoam note been a foam? . Doesnt mater how you use it. its still a snowfoam:thumb::wall:


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## DLGWRX02

JoeyJoeJo said:


> I did see that thread but misread and didn't think you'd hosed the lhs!
> 
> Perfect illustration in that case!


Lol, yeah it does sound like that, I'm useless at putting down what I mean to say, it sounds correct in my head at the time. I soaked the whole car except the rear offside door and then after 7-8 mins pressured washed over the entire car and that was what's left, I then reapplied tfr to that door left it and then rinsed again, before then foaming up. I find the foam cleans best when there isn't a layer of grime hiding the dirt underneath if that makes sense. Dirt is built up in layers on the car, so really any chemical wash will only truly get off what it makes contact with, so I use the strong stuff to get the heaviest contamination, then the foam to sit on the paint work and loosen off what's left and agitate with a brush around the awkward bits, like panel gaps and badges etc with out the fear of picking up huge particles of grit/sand etc and swirling it around as I'm doing so. You can feel a huge difference in friction when using a pre clean chemical (such as tfr or citrus) to just laying on the foam and agitation.


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## Teufel

Usually wash my rear wheels , use a pump sprayer and apply a prewash valetpro ,
Than wash one of my frond wheels , rinse the car and apply snow foam , finish my second frond wheel and rinse the hole car .
Less dirt I remove with my mitt less damage I can inflict to my paint .
After it's washed I use my leave blower to dry my car . Last few bits I pad dry .
Even on my last car I had next to no swirls and it was phanthom black .
Pretty overkill but prefer it this way than spending a weekend polishing my car to remove swirls .


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## james_death

Tim662 said:


> I've stopped using it as a pre wash as it doesn't remove that much extra, if any.
> 
> What I will do though, is use a shampoo like adams and foam that over the car before starting a 2 bucket wash. Adds loads of extra lubrication and also stops water spots if washing in the sun.


You could always use the snow foam in the same way and take a bucket and mitt to it.... have done it often that way for years...


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## james_death

*Some tests of mine from Some 3+ Years Back...​*
*My Bilt Hamber Autofoam test...*​
*Well folks started on a bit of a foam test a few months back and out of what i tried the Bilt Hamber Took Top Honours For Me.










Now i must Confess i have not been impressed with snow foams for this touchless washing ability.

However after a few Months with the Bilt Hamber I have experienced a touchless wash using the Bilt Hamber Auto Foam.

Now thats not every wash but if anything left behind after the foam was rinsed off it was very very little.

What did become apparent was as i suspected it very much depends on your level of protection on your vehicle.

No protection on i cannot see the foam taking the muck all off period.

Another point is all the mix ratio's all this 1 or 2 inches in the foam bottle, the bottle often been 1lt capacity but some may use a smaller bottle or try using the sometimes supplied with there power washer foam bottle.

However im set on using neat product in the bottle as this will give me a mix ratio of 1/25 this been product to water upon delivery through the lance.

My calculation below.

All areas will have different pressure some use off there main, rising main that may feed the washing machine dishwasher etc.

So pressure and volume of water supplied to the washer can vary, the power washer can vary on its delivery rate, the foam lance will alter the delivery rate also.

So folk will not always be getting an equal measure of foam to water on there vehicle as another.

As Bilt Hamber state with there Auto-Foam you should be aiming for minimum 4% Foam to water hitting the panels... so this will be 1 part neat foam to 25 parts water upon delivery. so 1/25 ratio product to water.

This is the minimum to actually get a cleaning action.

Great bit of advice and can see the whole issue of 1 inch to water in a foam bottle then mixing with the lance not actually getting any cleaning done.

Now my Nilfisk C120.2 delivers 9lt a minute just through the standard power washer lance.

However attaching my Snow Foam lance this drops to 6lt a Minute.
There can be a slight variation as stated on mains pressure etc.
But i have always tested the flow rate before every cleaning session and the above is the most consistent levels.

Having tried the foam lance on maximum foam i will get through about 450ml of foam solution a minute, However i do what most do and having turned to full foam i do half a turn back this gives me a consistent delivery of 250ml a minute.

So Delivering the Auto Foam to the panels at a ratio of just over 4% so im certainly hitting the minimum to actually get cleaning ability.

Thanks for sticking with me Folks and now some testing...

First up does just a blasting from the power washer, (remember thats 9lt a minute for me) actually remove a significant amount of grime???










Thats a No then... yes im sure the bigger stuff has gone but certainly not clean. This picture was taken actually on later testing with full protection below it.

So in This instance on the rover with failing or failed products on.... having done about 600+ Miles mixed roads and motorway spray etc...

Dirty panels...



















I Know all about rubbing muck in scratching paint but for the greater good...:lol:

The Cross idea not the greatest as i will be ingraining and probably making the cross harder to remove than surrounding grime but changed later to pad swipe testing.... But any way its dirty...










Now i had been doing some comparisons with other products, all used neat in foam bottle but the Bilt Hamber showed best cleaning and focussed on that over the next month or so.

Now i sprayed the foams and rinsed off but with all the pics etc, doing the polo in between while waiting for panels to dry and show if anything left behind as i started late on light beat me so parked her up and would see in cold light of the next day.

So next Day...










Can still see crosses and original mucky section between wing and drivers door and a certain pre wash product on the rear door certainly shows where that was used.

The front door having had the Bilt Hamber foam is by far the cleanest and on unprotected paint.

However it gets much much better when the car is wearing good protection.

Now she had full decon and winter prep...










The Hydra was used for a comparison on longevity on the Bonnet 50/50 to Finis.

Now Another 300 Miles again mixed with Motorway spray etc.










Pad Swiped through...










Foamed...



















Now depending on season and sun position you may not be willing to leave for 4 minutes or more unless you have shade, i must confess i thought i may have issues with the sunny side drying out to much but even drying sections came up great i was looking at no more than 3 mins though on the sunny side by which time i feared totally dry come 4 mins so was power washed off at that time.

Now i Gave a second swipe while still wet so no chance of any drying removing any muck and allowed the pad to dry out fully to check for Dirt.

After Drying...










So the Original Swipe of Dirty Door Panel on the Right Hand Pad and the Swipe after just using Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam no follow up washing or drying left clean pad to the Left Hand Side.

Great Result and the protection on the car had returned to its beading...










having used the power washer hose with the lance disconnected and power off, so just a stream of water free flowing this enabled the beads to sheet off.

Only leaving a few spots the most of which were due to the stream catching a trim edge etc and causing some splash back.

Now im not saying every wash will strip all the muck this is all dependent on contamination protection and how thorough the foaming etc.

i dare say you could still have the odd little section that did not get as good a clean as the rest but this is no detriment to the Auto-Foam it certainly does a superb job of cleaning.

As Shown a good protection layer to limit the adhesion of grime really does enable the Auto-Foam to work at its best.

I Have as i Say been testing this over a Couple of Months and im now whole heartedly embrace foaming as been rather a sceptic in the past.

Certainly Now having tested the Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam i Find this Foam Superb when used as recommended.

If You fear you may be using too much product i can only say i would sooner use more product at the intended ratio and get a clean vehicle than use less and still have to wash more.

For you would be wasting time and product and not getting it much if any cleaner than you started.

I have found i use between 100 and 120ml of Neat Auto-Foam on the Polo and about 120 to 180ml on the Rover.

I Have even used 100ml on the rover all dependent on how dirty and how fast you go.

Considering this ratio of use its cleaning ability and price its very reasonable.

I did the Polo a couple of days ago, i had 100ml left in the foam bottle so decided to add 150ml of water to the bottle.

This is greatly watering the Foam down and this got me round the Polo 5 times but the fact it was so diluted it did not perform great and still left film behind so confirming again that the 4% hitting the panel is paramount to its performance.

This had taken more time to do and still left me with most of the grime left behind.

Now if i had used it neat in the bottle so getting the 4% foam to water hitting the panel it would have taken one coating and stripped most if not all the grime.

I Have followed up a few times on the rover with a 2 bucket wash to see is anything else came off and as stated you may get something left in a trim crease etc but this is what i have been getting in the rinse bucket...










Bear in mind this is also holding the Bilt Hamber Auto-Wash which i have been using when doing the 2 bucket folow up wash so this will affect clarity slightly.*

*Again...​*
*My 4 Foam's tested Before that...​*
*Ok Folks after having to wait 3 weeks and 800 Miles before i could get to wash the Polo...














































Yeah certainly a candidate for some snow foaming action...:lol:

So why not a bit of a comparison test....:thumb:

So Rinsed with the power washer and then some side by sides....

These are all in lance bottles in neat form and will be hitting the panels at a mix ration of 1 part product to 25 parts water.

So First Up...

Autosmart Ultra Mousse to the Left...

Autobrite Magifoam to the Right...



















Other Side...

Autosmart Actimousse XLS to the left...

Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam to the Right...



















As a Little extra Comparison...

A side by side on the hatch...

Autobrite Magifoam on the left & Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam on the Right...










Now i was going to simply post up the results.. However...

Having Taken a swab of each panel after just one application of foam, left to dwell for 5 minutes and then rinsed off.

The swab was taken and put to one side in order to dry fully overnight and then see what, if any muck had been transferred to the swab.

So What do Folks think will have cleaned the best on this Dirty Car???

Poll is Ended...:thumb:​*​
*Results...​*
*Ok Folks Lets See How Your Votes Compared To Foam Performance.*

*So The Dirt the Foams had to Contend With...*














































*Remember all Foams were used in neat form from the foam lance bottle.

So Actually were dispensed at a mix ratio of 20:1 so Twenty Parts Water to One Part Foam Product.

So....Pads were Swiped from the Bottom of each respective panel as these were the Dirtiest sections although not taken from the actual sill as getting that low risks catching any crud below the sill bottom edge.










Magifoam was Voted Top... It Actually Came Last from my testing.

Autosmart Ultra Mousse was Voted Last... It Actually Came Third.

Autosmart Actimousse XLS Voted Next to Last... It Actually Came Second Only Just Pipped to the post By the Winner.

Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam Voted Second Best... It's Actually the Winner only just Beating XLS.

The Autosmart Ultramousse was Similar Performance to Autobrite Magifoam... But i would put the Ultramousse as Slightly Better.

So From My Testing Magifoam alongside Ultramousse.










Remember the Pads were swiped once through the relevant Panel that had been cleaned.

The Swiped Pads were left to dry in order to see if any Grime was left on the panel after the Foaming and Rinsing.

Here We Have the Second place Actimousse XLS alongside the Winner Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam.










Now although still not fully clean the XLS & Auto-Foam Only left a very miniscule amount behind.

For my own Personal Test, Since i had only just received Magifoam having heard good things about it for what seams like forever, i did a side by side on the Hatch with what i have found to be an excellent foam that being the Bilt Hamber Auto-Foam.

Now the Very Cruddy Hatch had one hit of each product, one on each side again.

This power washed off again after 5 Minutes but this time i swiped each side with each pad twice.

Both did not remove all but again the Bilt Hamber Autofoam Performed the Best.

The Hatch Pad pics seam to have fallen into a Black Hole....:wall:

However they are at the top of this shot...








*

*Of Course everyone is free to do as they wish.... back then the pump sprayer delivery system was not that much known about if at all.*


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## Clean-my-sxi

cheekymonkey said:


> the title says you have give up on foams, yet you use BH autofoam through a pump sprayer. Since when has BH autofoam note been a foam? . Doesnt mater how you use it. its still a snowfoam:thumb::wall:


Because BH AF is well known not for foaming and needs to be quite concentrated , hence it is more effective being used in a pump sprayer and for this reason , though called a foam i consider it to be more like a pre wash cleaner


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## Clean-my-sxi

For me the foams i have used throughthe lance justdoesnt seem to make any real difference to if i was to give thecar a blast withpressure washer thena soak with pump sprayer, apart from having mess to clean up afterwards


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## Ciamician

DLGWRX02 said:


> Done this on mine today, massive difference in comparison.


Which snow foam did you use?


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## Guest

I always snow Foam, even a quick wash.

I use valet pro advanced ph neutral but I'll be moving over to BH auto Foam. It seems to clean better. I don't know if there is a review that tests snow foams but would be good to see the results.

One thing I do know is chemical guys honeydew is by far the worst I've ever used. I used a cheap demon shine shampoo / Foam on the Mrs car and it cleaned better the CG, and it genuinely shocked me, I won't touch CG again and that's including their entire range, but I've heard nothing but praise for BH's products


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## -Raven-

I used to think snow foam was a waste of time and didn't do much at all. That was until I got Angelwax Fast Foam! 

Now I think washing afterwards is a waste of time and doesn't do much at all! :lol:


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## footfistart

I've got foams and I end up mixing apc to get it to do something. Even on my c1'coated car. Not that I need either for that but still.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## TonyHill

I gave up on the thought of purchasing any kind of foaming product/lance after reading so many negative reviews on here :speechles


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## IamDave

I was using snow foam but find it does very little in terms of removing much muck. I'm going to start using APC instead as that definitely makes a good job of it, and from what I gather shouldn't harm the EXO coating with multiple uses.


Sent from my  iPhone


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## shq

I have no intention of giving up snow foam as part of my washing routine. I may invest in a pump sprayer to apply BH autofoam mixed with warm water to any areas which are heavily soiled - usually around the wheel arches - but will still use a foam lance to do the whole car. 

I use approx 350ml autofoam with the rest of bottle filled with water to foam two mid-size cars which I think is reasonable. It does actually clean the paintwork to a point where in some cases I rinse the foam off and leave it at that. It's not the perfect touchless wash but it shifts enough road grime to get the cars looking clean and not require a full on contact wash every week. For the record the cars I use it on are both black so are more than capable of showing up the slightest layer of dust/dirt with ease.


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## Bigpikle

use a decent PW that outputs a high VOLUME of water (not pressure) and the foam makes little difference really. Just rinse the muck off and be chemical free. That foam just runs into the rainwater drains and isnt doing your local environment any good.....


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## DLGWRX02

Ciamician said:


> Which snow foam did you use?


The test I done was using power maxed tfr, not really a test, it was justbout of curiosity more than anything, but afterwards my foam of choice is valet pro ph neutral


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## Clean-my-sxi

I tried angel wax fast foam some years back and didnt think much of it


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## cheekymonkey

Clean-my-sxi said:


> Because BH AF is well known not for foaming and needs to be quite concentrated , hence it is more effective being used in a pump sprayer and for this reason , though called a foam i consider it to be more like a pre wash cleaner


BH is not a high foaming foam for a reason, it works by grabbing the dirt and removing it from the paint. if it was a thicker foam then it would cling to the paint not allowing it to work. As for high concentration it can be used as low as 1% and still cleans brilliant. 
When ever i see a thread like this and it is a quality snow foam being used, i always believe its down to using it wrong, or a under powered pressure washer.


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## marty_34

was at that stage, then tried fireball premium active snow foam which is a very good cleaner. do agree on the valet pro citrus pre wash though a good product


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## Posts001

I love snow foaming - I also find that once you have snow foamed the car you get the beading back if the car if really dirty. Also giving the car a good rinse with the pressure washer is great also fir removing larger contaminants


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## Clean-my-sxi

cheekymonkey said:


> BH is not a high foaming foam for a reason, it works by grabbing the dirt and removing it from the paint. if it was a thicker foam then it would cling to the paint not allowing it to work. As for high concentration it can be used as low as 1% and still cleans brilliant.
> When ever i see a thread like this and it is a quality snow foam being used, i always believe its down to using it wrong, or a under powered pressure washer.


I wasnt saying that bh af should foam more, i said it isnt a product that foams, my pressure washer is by far powerful enough so no rpoblem there and there is no way a product like bh af at 1% concentrate does anything your having a laugh if you think it does, you mayaswell just dribble in the water

Id prefer not to get into a conversation about how effective bh af is anyway, as my statement was originally saying it was more effective through a pump sprayer then a foam lance


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## PaulinLincs

How about mixing Powermaxed TFR and some snow foam in a pressure bottle so cleaning abilty of TFR with the clinging of the foam. Any reason why this cant be done ?


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## fatdazza

PaulinLincs said:


> How about mixing Powermaxed TFR and some snow foam in a pressure bottle so cleaning abilty of TFR with the clinging of the foam. Any reason why this cant be done ?


Mixing chemicals without a good understanding is not always a good idea. 

Also define the difference between a snow foam and a TFR? - Some snow foams are TFRs with added foaming agents.

People often get better cleaning ability from a TFR as the chemicals are often more concentrated. Higher strength chemicals = better cleaning and often equals quicker degradation of LSP. Higher strength chemicals also has a higher risk of etching of sensitive finishes (e.g anodised or polished trim)

you pay your money, you take your chance


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## cheekymonkey

Clean-my-sxi said:


> I wasnt saying that bh af should foam more, i said it isnt a product that foams, my pressure washer is by far powerful enough so no rpoblem there and there is no way a product like bh af at 1% concentrate does anything your having a laugh if you think it does, you mayaswell just dribble in the water
> 
> Id prefer not to get into a conversation about how effective bh af is anyway, as my statement was originally saying it was more effective through a pump sprayer then a foam lance


You also claimed it had to be used at a high concentration. I have used it at 1% many times and it cleans well, a lot better than dribbling water.:thumb: 
Another problem is the protection on the car is not at its best.
what power washer do you have


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## Deje

PaulinLincs said:


> How about mixing Powermaxed TFR and some snow foam in a pressure bottle so cleaning abilty of TFR with the clinging of the foam. Any reason why this cant be done ?


So do the majority of detailing enthusiasts I know in the north!:driver:

Edit:mixed in a snow foam lance!


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## wanner69

I get crap results from most foams I've used including BH and no im not a newbie:lol:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=388060


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## cheekymonkey

wanner69 said:


> I get crap results from most foams I've used including BH and no im not a newbie:lol:
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=388060


read post 51 fatdazza somes up such a product :thumb:


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## wanner69

cheekymonkey said:


> read post 51 fatdazza somes up such a product :thumb:


Yeh agreed bud, affecting my LSP doesn't bother me, can soon add more


----------



## GleemSpray

PaulinLincs said:


> How about mixing Powermaxed TFR and some snow foam in a pressure bottle so cleaning abilty of TFR with the clinging of the foam. Any reason why this cant be done ?


Powernaxed do a snow foam which cleans very well and as far as I can guess, it probably is their TFR product mixed with some foam.

Not cheap tho at over £20 for 5 litres, but it really does seem to work well. I bought in in a promotion a while back and have compared it to their TFR and also BH Autofoam and it does compare well to both of them.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

cheekymonkey said:


> You also claimed it had to be used at a high concentration. I have used it at 1% many times and it cleans well, a lot better than dribbling water.:thumb:
> Another problem is the protection on the car is not at its best.
> what power washer do you have


Nilfisk p150


----------



## cheekymonkey

Clean-my-sxi said:


> Nilfisk p150


great bit of kit mate, and you should be getting good results with some of the foams you have mentioned. Have a look at your routine, how far away you have the lance etc, Not having a dig, just as i said you should be getting good results with that PW.


----------



## Ross

I have a P150 too its a cracking PW.


----------



## dholdi

I love snow foaming, however haven't really found any that really clean like the reviews that show dirty foam streaming from the car.
However, had a sample of AutoGlanz Piste and that did, ordered a larger bottle during the sale to test it further.
Will report back soon :detailer:


----------



## granteee

Hey Guys

Can you answer a Newbie, probably stupid, question?

What's the difference between Snow Foam and Pump Spray?

Some people are using the same products to do both? I have a Karcher Foam Lance attachment AND a separate Pump Action Pressure Sprayer. 

Why would the pump spray be better than foam? 

You're probably all thinking......'Duh. It's obvious!' 

Just indulge me please?

Oh and is Koch Chemie Green Star Universal Cleaner the excellent product everyone is saying? Is this to be pumped on??


----------



## scratcher

I gave up on foaming for ages, a few years I think, and just used a pump sprayer.
I've gone back to foam this year and found it a lot more effective. The mess left behind can be annoying but I just move the car and give it a blast away with the hose.


----------



## Simonrev

granteee said:


> Hey Guys
> 
> Can you answer a Newbie, probably stupid, question?
> 
> What's the difference between Snow Foam and Pump Spray?
> 
> Some people are using the same products to do both? I have a Karcher Foam Lance attachment AND a separate Pump Action Pressure Sprayer.
> 
> Why would the pump spray be better than foam?
> 
> You're probably all thinking......'Duh. It's obvious!'
> 
> Just indulge me please?
> 
> Oh and is Koch Chemie Green Star Universal Cleaner the excellent product everyone is saying? Is this to be pumped on??


Everyone was a newbie at one point so no stupid questions ....

There are different opinions as you have seen ... I use the pump sprayer with a mixture of 10:1 (10 parts water 1 part product ) as a pre wash and use it mixed with hot water ... I then PW it off after 5 mins and then snow foam and again PW off after 5 mins ...

The Koch Chemie is getting good reviews ... I use Power Maxed TFR as the pump pre wash and then wowo's snow foam ... but again everyone has their own favourites


----------



## scratcher

granteee said:


> Hey Guys
> 
> Can you answer a Newbie, probably stupid, question?
> 
> What's the difference between Snow Foam and Pump Spray?
> 
> Some people are using the same products to do both? I have a Karcher Foam Lance attachment AND a separate Pump Action Pressure Sprayer.
> 
> Why would the pump spray be better than foam?
> 
> You're probably all thinking......'Duh. It's obvious!'
> 
> Just indulge me please?
> 
> Oh and is Koch Chemie Green Star Universal Cleaner the excellent product everyone is saying? Is this to be pumped on??


There are no silly questions 
The snow foam is the product really - a pre wash solution that softens and helps to remove some dirt from the car before you wash it.
A foam lance will cover the car in a blanketof bubbles that allows it to dwell for a long time and soften up the surface dirt. I find it helps to pull some of the dirt down with it as it slowly slides down the vertical panels too.
A pump sprayer is a hand held sprayer that you fill with your pre wash mix, pump it to pressurise and then spray it onto the car. It won't be super foamy but it'll still dwell for a short while and help to soften the surface dit.


----------



## granteee

So the product is the same in both instances?
Just applied differently? ie Foam Lance or Pump Lance???


----------



## Simonrev

granteee said:


> So the product is the same in both instances?
> Just applied differently? ie Foam Lance or Pump Lance???


it can be the same ... but usually there are different products for pre wash and snow foam


----------



## fatdazza

One of the benefits of a pump sprayer is that you can use hot water, which can improve the effectiveness of the cleaning chemicals.

On the flip side, some argue that as foam "dwells" on the car for longer, the chemicals have a longer contact to soften the "dirt" on the car.

Also people will often compare foams with sprays without understanding the concentration of the chemical that is hitting the paintwork (especially the case with snow foam)


----------



## granteee

Gotcha

So one of those......"If it works for you then stick with it!"?


----------



## Franzpan

Its just down to yourself which way your prefer to do the pre clean. 'Snowfoam' is a way of application rather than a product in itself. The only difference a 'snowfoam' branded product might differ to a normal tfr is added foaming agent.

I would say you aren't diluting the product as much through the pump sprayer - have you tried the same product through both applications?


----------



## pristinewill

I found it left the car in need of more cleaning after rinsing the foam away! 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## Simonrev

pristinewill said:


> I found it left the car in need of more cleaning after rinsing the foam away!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


It isn't meant to perform like a touchless wash ... just an aid in the normal washing process meaning that as much dirt is removed before you break out the buckets and wash mitt to reduce the risk of inflicting damage to the paint


----------



## neilmcl

granteee said:


> So the product is the same in both instances?
> Just applied differently? ie Foam Lance or Pump Lance???


Yes, exactly. However, not all snow foams will work equally as good when used in a pump sprayer. One that is designed to do so however, and is mentioned in the manufacturer instructions, is BH AutoFoam.


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

My p150 cleans great it's just I don't find the foam does anything the pw can do on its own,

Also the mess is very annoying


----------



## wanner69

Clean-my-sxi said:


> My p150 cleans great it's just I don't find the foam does anything the pw can do on its own,
> 
> Also the mess is very annoying


Agreed totally


----------



## cheekymonkey

Clean-my-sxi said:


> My p150 cleans great it's just I don't find the foam does anything the pw can do on its own,
> 
> Also the mess is very annoying


fair enough. Always found any good quality snow foam helps with the cleaning. Never found just a pw as good as a good snow foam followed by pw. 
never had a problem with any mess from a quality snow foam used at the correct dilution.


----------



## Jamesrt2004

Clean-my-sxi said:


> My p150 cleans great it's just I don't find the foam does anything the pw can do on its own,
> 
> Also the mess is very annoying


Just think, it's a relatively short and cheap process which at the very least won't hurt the paint and at best will help (even if just marginally) remove some of the crap from the car.

Personally I always foam, sometimes though I do wonder if it's actually doing anything different to just using the PW as is but I just go back to the fact it won't hurt and doesn't really take long.


----------



## Manxman302

And then there's the age old 'argument' if Snow Foam performs better when sprayed on to a 'dry' vehicle, or one that's been quickly rinsed prior to Snow Foam being applied... 

I use a Nilfisk P150.2 with BH Autofoam via an Autobrite Lance and am happy with the results I get. Obviously the dirt comes off easier when the car is well protected.


----------



## BigMart

+1 for moving away from dedicated snowfoam.

I have migrated to low cost turtle wax shampoo from costco (£13 for 25 litres)
I foam with a strong solution on a dry car... leave it to dwell while doing the wheels and then carefully pressure wash off.
This leaves a very clean car , maybe 95%.
A further foam all over and a wipe over with a lambswool mitt (no bucket) usualy reveals no further brown dirt in the shampoo / mitt.

Maybe this low cost shampoo is very effective as a foam or maybe I've been lucky with this shortcut technique but can report very little marring or swirling in the 6 years , 100k miles and 3 cars I've been doing this. 

YMMV
Mart:thumb:


----------



## firehorse

BigMart said:


> +1 for moving away from dedicated snowfoam.
> 
> I have migrated to low cost turtle wax shampoo from costco (£13 for 25 litres)
> I foam with a strong solution on a dry car... leave it to dwell while doing the wheels and then carefully pressure wash off.
> This leaves a very clean car , maybe 95%.
> A further foam all over and a wipe over with a lambswool mitt (no bucket) usualy reveals no further brown dirt in the shampoo / mitt.
> 
> Maybe this low cost shampoo is very effective as a foam or maybe I've been lucky with this shortcut technique but can report very little marring or swirling in the 6 years , 100k miles and 3 cars I've been doing this.
> 
> YMMV
> Mart:thumb:


Hi,

What strong dilution ratio do you use and keep it lsp safe?

Thanks


----------



## fozzy

I always use foam as part of the regime if the car has visible dirt/grit on the paint. It tends to get used less so throughout the summer months as it's never allowed to become dirty. Anything that holds mousture on the paint to soften up the crud even if it doesnt remove it all is a good thing.


----------



## BigMart

firehorse said:


> Hi,
> 
> What strong dilution ratio do you use and keep it lsp safe?
> 
> Thanks


I use 200 - 250ml in a 1 litre snow foam bottle topped up with water.
The turtle wax shampoo is supposedly a wash and wax and has always been lsp safe for me , even when dried.

Mart


----------



## GleemSpray

I have used Turtle Wax Zip Wax via a foam lance and, like other shampoos used through a foam lance, it does much of what you would expect a foam to do, apart from dwelling for ages.

I have never had results from using a dedicated foam through a foam lance that justify the PITA mess that stays on the drive for hours afterwards - thats why i now just use a pump sprayer with some sort of pre-wash / APC in it mxed with warm water.

http://www.detailingworld.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4418359&postcount=13


----------



## Subc

I bought a 5L Pump sprayer and use Bilt Hamber Autofoam through that, Dirt just falls off 5 min dwell and hose or PW off near touchless. Have tried most Snow Foams through Gun and Bilt Hamber is the only one I rate.


----------



## Ciamician

Subc said:


> I bought a 5L Pump sprayer and use Bilt Hamber Autofoam through that, Dirt just falls off 5 min dwell and hose or PW off near touchless. Have tried most Snow Foams through Gun and Bilt Hamber is the only one I rate.


So how does the BH + pump sprayer compare to BH + foam lance? Huge difference?


----------



## Subc

Its a lot more controlled and very economic, I would say takes less product to get the same result I use about 250ml in 5l sprayer and works very well and can do car a few times with that. I did a Transit that was caked in road grime and it just fell away.


----------



## GleemSpray

At a slight tangent to the thread topic - does anyone use BH Surfex via a foam lance or pump sprayer ?

I bought 5l of it a while back along with 5L of Autofoam, so have only really used the Surfex in a hand sprayer @ 10% mix for wheels, tyres and engine bay (don't recall ever doing a whole vehicle with it )

Is it good as a foam / pre wash ?


----------



## nick_mcuk

I have never been fussed with the snow foams on the markets tried a few and they were just an expensive gimmick. 

I do foam before washing but the main element I use is either AutoGlym Advanced TFR or AutoGlym Multi-wash TFR mixed with a splash of ValetPro PH neutral foam just to get the TFR to foam and dwell a bit longer. Mixture is normally 1/4-1/2 bottle of TFR (depending on how grubby the car is) 100-150ml if foam and the rest water. 

Before anyone says it the above AutoGlym products have never had any adverse effects to coating or LSP nor damaged trims or plastics. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SimTaylor

This is an interesting read as I have just purchased a snow foam lance for my pressure washer, I also thought about getting a pump sprayer before hand as they were cheaper but I think the snow foam lance looks to be a lot more fun to use compared to a pump sprayer, if fun is the right word. Maybe easier?


----------



## cheekymonkey

nick_mcuk said:


> I have never been fussed with the snow foams on the markets tried a few and they were just an expensive gimmick.
> 
> I do foam before washing but the main element I use is either AutoGlym Advanced TFR or AutoGlym Multi-wash TFR mixed with a splash of ValetPro PH neutral foam just to get the TFR to foam and dwell a bit longer. Mixture is normally 1/4-1/2 bottle of TFR (depending on how grubby the car is) 100-150ml if foam and the rest water.
> 
> Before anyone says it the above AutoGlym products have never had any adverse effects to coating or LSP nor damaged trims or plastics.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


so you use 1/4 to 1/2 a bottle of tfr then add 100 to 150 ml snow foam and top with water. yet claim its lsp safe. 
It may not remove the lsp the first time you use it, but at them strengths it will defiantly diminish any coating or lsp. 
Have tried those autoglym products and they are not nice to use.


----------



## cheekymonkey

One thing this thread has brought to light is the amount of members who dont understand what snow foaming is all about. Its not a wonder product that totally cleans your car. If you just want something to totally clean your car in one hit use tfr. thats what tfr is, a quick cheap harsh way to clean a car but awful to use and wont do your car any good in the long run. modern snow foams are gentler than the old trf based ones, there job is to remove so much of the dirt but also soften the remaining dirt. this makes removing the rest easier and more importantly safer. Its the dwell time of a snow foam that allows the maximum softning to take place.


----------



## TonyHill

Isn't Power Maxed tfr lsp safe, providing you dilute accordingly??


----------



## cheekymonkey

TonyHill said:


> Isn't Power Maxed tfr lsp safe, providing you dilute accordingly??


some on here reported lsp failer and didnt last as well when using PM tfr.


----------



## Wilco

I still foam as it works for me. 25Ml of Obsession blizzard through a lance and left to dwell for just under ten minutes.























































It works well for sure, it does help that the car is well protected too though.

Same as all things really if it works for you keep doing it and I fully intend to as it does for me.


----------



## nick_mcuk

cheekymonkey said:


> so you use 1/4 to 1/2 a bottle of tfr then add 100 to 150 ml snow foam and top with water. yet claim its lsp safe.
> It may not remove the lsp the first time you use it, but at them strengths it will defiantly diminish any coating or lsp.
> Have tried those autoglym products and they are not nice to use.


Well its not done any damage to the TAC coating on the Mazda and thats over 16 months old, the 208's Zaino and topped up wax topcoat was still beading nicely all the time up till last week when I did a paint correction...so next comment rubbishing actual first hand experiences?

The AG TFR's are probably some of the mildest out there....and I have been using them for a long time now and NEVER had any issues.

I have even used them 100% neat in the foam bottle and the LSP's have stood up to them....so I fail to see how you claim they are evil and nasty?

By the way the Multi-Wash TFR can be used and an APC and interior cleaner so I really do think you need to get your facts right before blasting out the "same ole same ole" witch hunt garbage argument.



cheekymonkey said:


> One thing this thread has brought to light is the amount of members who dont understand what snow foaming is all about. Its not a wonder product that totally cleans your car. If you just want something to totally clean your car in one hit use tfr. thats what tfr is, a quick cheap harsh way to clean a car but awful to use and wont do your car any good in the long run. modern snow foams are gentler than the old trf based ones, there job is to remove so much of the dirt but also soften the remaining dirt. this makes removing the rest easier and more importantly safer. Its the dwell time of a snow foam that allows the maximum softning to take place.


Again a sweeping statement thats just not true...I personally did some back to back test and a number of the "soft and fluffy" snow foams did no better job of softening the grime than plain water from the presure washer...i think Jesse from Wolfs actually did a test/writeup on here a few years back...and his findings we exactly the same....plain water was just as good and a darn sight less expensive.

As I said in my post i use some PH neutral foam in my mix not as a cleaning agent but more as a foam thickener when added to the AutoGlym TFR's


----------



## Surrey Sam

cheekymonkey said:


> One thing this thread has brought to light is the amount of members who dont understand what snow foaming is all about. Its not a wonder product that totally cleans your car. If you just want something to totally clean your car in one hit use tfr. thats what tfr is, a quick cheap harsh way to clean a car but awful to use and wont do your car any good in the long run. modern snow foams are gentler than the old trf based ones, there job is to remove so much of the dirt but also soften the remaining dirt. this makes removing the rest easier and more importantly safer. Its the dwell time of a snow foam that allows the maximum softning to take place.


Hallelujah :thumb:

As above. I'll also add that the foam serves as a carrier for the dirt when pressure washing the car before your 'numerous' bucket method wash.

Far too many people get hung up on the latest LSP fad when all they need to worry about is getting the paintwork, swirl free and maintaining it in the best way possible.


----------



## cheekymonkey

nick_mcuk said:


> Well its not done any damage to the TAC coating on the Mazda and thats over 16 months old, the 208's Zaino and topped up wax topcoat was still beading nicely all the time up till last week when I did a paint correction...so next comment rubbishing actual first hand experiences?
> 
> The AG TFR's are probably some of the mildest out there....and I have been using them for a long time now and NEVER had any issues.
> 
> *I have even used them 100% neat in the foam bottle and the LSP's have stood up to them.*...so I fail to see how you claim they are evil and nasty?
> 
> By the way the Multi-Wash TFR can be used and an APC and interior cleaner so I really do think you need to get your facts right before blasting out the "same ole same ole" witch hunt garbage argument.
> 
> seems with that statement i highlighted you dont really understand the meaning of lsp failer
> . Just because you wash it in the tfr and it still beeds after does not rule out lsp fail. A harsh product doesnt just remove the lsp in 1 hit, it deteriorates it over a few uses.
> 
> By the way most tfrs can be used as an apc or interior cleaner. thats just marketing rubbish


----------



## cheekymonkey

nick_mcuk said:


> Again a sweeping statement thats just not true...I personally did some back to back test and a number of the "soft and fluffy" snow foams did no better job of softening the grime than plain water from the presure washer...i think Jesse from Wolfs actually did a test/writeup on here a few years back...and his findings we exactly the same....plain water was just as good and a darn sight less expensive.
> 
> As I said in my post i use some PH neutral foam in my mix not as a cleaning agent but more as a foam thickener when added to the AutoGlym TFR's


really, i disagree with that and many others on here will also.
The down fall with that is a pw and water doesnt clean as well as a SF and pw. cant coment on yours or Jesses tests as not seen them.
As i recall Jesse produces and sells snow foam 
http://wolfs-chemicals.com/products_shop/wash/Snow_Foam_Shampoo_5L


----------



## wish wash

I think how a snow foam performs is going to vary from person to person. Dilution ratios play a factor as does how good there lsp is on the car. What's works for one may not work so well on a less protected car.


----------



## Surrey Sam

That fence you're sitting on, must be uncomfortable?


----------



## fatdazza

TonyHill said:


> Isn't Power Maxed tfr lsp safe, providing you dilute accordingly??


Define lsp safe. I often ask this question but have yet to receive a satisfactory answer.

If you mean will it not strip lsp, then most tfrs are lsp safe. Most ftrs will however degrade lsp quicker than safer alternatives. Fine if you are happy to apply lsp more often.


----------



## dholdi

Who is on the fence ?


----------



## nick_mcuk

cheekymonkey said:


> nick_mcuk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well its not done any damage to the TAC coating on the Mazda and thats over 16 months old, the 208's Zaino and topped up wax topcoat was still beading nicely all the time up till last week when I did a paint correction...so next comment rubbishing actual first hand experiences?
> 
> The AG TFR's are probably some of the mildest out there....and I have been using them for a long time now and NEVER had any issues.
> 
> *I have even used them 100% neat in the foam bottle and the LSP's have stood up to them.*...so I fail to see how you claim they are evil and nasty?
> 
> By the way the Multi-Wash TFR can be used and an APC and interior cleaner so I really do think you need to get your facts right before blasting out the "same ole same ole" witch hunt garbage argument.
> 
> 
> 
> seems with that statement i highlighted you dont really understand the meaning of lsp failer
> . Just because you wash it in the tfr and it still beeds after does not rule out lsp fail. A harsh product doesnt just remove the lsp in 1 hit, it deteriorates it over a few uses.
> 
> By the way most tfrs can be used as an apc or interior cleaner. thats just marketing rubbish
Click to expand...

Well obviously beading isnt the sole indicator of an LSP....sorry didnt realise I had to spell out the basics so let me start being absolute in my replies, of course there are numerous indicators including beading being one of them along with visual appearance, slickness of the surface, the dirt repulsion and lack of adhesion to mention a few...

So back to the discussion probably my fault not to mention it but have run the Multi-wash TFR at 100% for more than one wash (i.e. numerous washes over a winter on 2 different cars with different LSP's) and it had little or no effect on the behaviour, appearance nor the ability of the LSP to repell the dirt and grime.

Also worth mentioning that in the 6 months of running the Multi-Wash TFR neat it did no damage to the plastics.

The reason behind this is that (as I already said) the Multi-Wash is mild...it assists in loosening the dirt on the surface of the panels so that if makes for a safer wash as you are not moving the dirt about...I merely add in some PH Neutral foam into the mix now because it means the product can sit longer on the surface and let the TFR do its job.

Again you are jumping on the "TFR is spawn of the devil" band waggon and used correctly it is perfectly safe but you clearly just don't get this or you are just reverting to your usual "Couch Conan" argumentative form and simply wont accept someone else's point of view and you have to be right.

As for the comment about most TFR's being able to be used as a APC....again you strictly are not correct on that, and there are numerous examples that cant be used on interiors.



cheekymonkey said:


> really, i disagree with that and many others on here will also.
> The down fall with that is a pw and water doesnt clean as well as a SF and pw. cant coment on yours or Jesses tests as not seen them.
> As i recall Jesse produces and sells snow foam
> http://wolfs-chemicals.com/products_shop/wash/Snow_Foam_Shampoo_5L


Again not true...I regularly just use plain water through the pressure washer to pre-rinse. If you have a well maintained surface and your LSP is up to scratch you should be able to rinse off a good amount of crud with just plain water. As for the comments about Jesse I am fully aware of Wolfs products but this was way back...it might not have been him that did the test but it was defo posted on here...was a number of years back and if I recall it was on a white car.

What a lot of folk on here really dont get (you included here) is that for a snow foam to be effective and remove grime it must have the same surfactants as a TFR...just because the bottle it comes in says is PH Neutral and LSP safe is all marketing spin. If it doesn't contain the chemicals all its going to do is wet the car with a load of messy foam...so in that case you are simply better off doing a wet down of the car with a hose....leaving it while you fill up your buckets then giving it a thorough prewash with the pressure washer.

I am out now...I am pretty bored of the frankly obnoxious way you consistently steadfastly will not have a discussion without taking others experiences, findings and knowledge into account and you have to be right all the time and belittle others.


----------



## realist

dholdi said:


> Who is on the fence ?


Me:thumb:


----------



## k4ith

Some foams like Valetpro's pH neutral are meant to be used through a pump sprayer according to the label(not sure on new branding was on old) some foams are to be applied to the car dry, myself i prefer to rinse most of the debris off with the pw then apply the foam but not to thick. Some of the tests show cars caked in foam like shaving foam for me this has little effect as the foams just sitting ontop doing nothing. Also most of us are using cold water through our pw use all of these foams through a hot pw and the results would be far far better(obviously) I still use foams valetpro ph and angelwax fast foam but I will pump spray first generally with valet pro combo dwell, rinse then foam, rinse and then apply another to aid with washing altering the thickness as i go runny through to thicker as final wash by hand. This would only be in winter months or going into spring as final decontamination process stage.


----------



## NateQ

I am debating wither to ditch it off. For now I am planning on using auto foam in a pump sprayer. In the future I may give VP advance snow foam a try but I'm not holding much hope that it will be any good. CG honeydew, 2 inches in the bottle seemed to clean the car but then you look closer and see not much has really been shifted, just glossed the paint.


----------



## Ciamician

I was actually planning on ordering some BH Auto Foam + a foam lance but this thread is holding me back :lol:


----------



## chongo

I always use Auto foam through a pump sprayer followed by a snow foam in winter only, then in the summer months it gets a pre wash only, depending on how dirty the car is it might get a snow foam.


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

Ciamician said:


> I was actually planning on ordering some BH Auto Foam + a foam lance but this thread is holding me back :lol:


:lol: tbh mate bh afis a good cleaning product but i found it better in a pump sprayer and it was more concentrated then through the foam lance.

I think the thread has become a bit of a debate now anyway, my point was really that im thinking of giving up on snow foams, they can potentially add up to 40 mins on top of my routine after ive had to clean up the mess they can leave behind depending on which you use, and just having to lean to foam lance after is another chore.

Yes i do know what snowfoam is for but tbh i not convinced that it does soften or loosen any dirt on the car compared to pre soaking the car with water or just going straight over withthe pressure washer, using a pump sprayer seemed just as effective and i thought was actually a quicker method aswell:thumb:


----------



## Guest

Pressure Pump Sprayer = Lightweight & Precise
Foam Lance = Numb & cumbersome

If I was to use a foam lance it would be in milder warmer weather, where a car is only gonna have mainly light air born contamination, using a foam lance as opposed to pressure sprayer only because very deep cleaning isn't needed through summer as a rule unlike through winter


----------



## Subc

Pump Sprayer and BH is the best, (In my Opinion) but everyone has to try snow foaming, get frustrated with poor results, its part of the detailing Journey. .
If I am doing a car that is really Bad I will Pump Spray then foam on shampoo to carry away the sharp crud before hosing.


----------



## Mikej857

I've found since buying a white car foam isn't as affective so have mixed some citrus pre wash with it which helps with the cleaning action especially in the current weather conditions


----------



## Surrey Sam

Genuinely amazed at the 'pump sprayer' movement.

I could have 2 cars foamed, in the time it takes you to fill and pressurise your vessels?


----------



## FJ1000

A couple of points:

Level of protection has been mentioned. I have 2 cars at home, one with gtechniq crystal serum and EXO, and the other just protected with jetseal. With snowfoam alone (bilt hamber) and a pressure wash, I can achieve a good touchless clean on the gtechniq coated car if it isn't too dirty. I've tried the same on the other car, but to no avail.

Sam mentioned using the foam as a "carrier" of grime off the car. Where I've noticed this to best effect is on the wheels. My wheels are a royal pain in the backside to clean. 20 inches of multispoke split rim crevices and surfaces. If I spray on a wheel cleaner (sonax or gtechniq), it tends to loosen dirt to a point and then just dry up. So I started spraying on the wheel cleaner, and then a couple of minutes later spraying on snowfoam. You can actually see the dirt in the snowfoam as it dribbles off the wheels. I can then jet wash and have the wheels clean without getting the wheel brush out!

The wheels are gtechniq coated.










Lastly. My car is a state at the moment.

Next time I wash it, I will apply snowfoam to a single door, and not to an adjacent one, and pressure wash both, to see how they come out!

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## Guest

Surrey Sam said:


> Genuinely amazed at the 'pump sprayer' movement.
> 
> I could have 2 cars foamed, in the time it takes you to fill and pressurise your vessels?


I can fill my pump sprayer in the same time as I can a foam bottle.

I can pressurise my sprayer in the same time as I can connecting up the pressure washer prior to foaming.

I can achieve better results spraying tfr/pre wash than snow foaming.

...and I don't have to spend any time afterwards cleaning up the driveway afterwards.

...and who gives a monkey's about (possibly) saving a few seconds on a job that will take most of us at least an hour?


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## dave-g

Surrey Sam said:


> Genuinely amazed at the 'pump sprayer' movement.
> 
> I could have 2 cars foamed, in the time it takes you to fill and pressurise your vessels?


How'd you figure that? I could fill and start foaming while you're dragging out the pressure washer and connecting it all up? :lol:

It's all relative to costing, where you live etc. If I'm at my dads I'll use his lance, but I live where I've nowhere to keep a pressure washer or make such a mess so it works. :thumb:


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## mrk_290

The issue with the foam is that it's not designed to fully clean the car, however that would be great if it could. The foam is simply to remove excess dirt in preparation for a bucket clean. I won't be renewing my foam product when it's finished as imo the faom turns washing the car into more of a chore as opposed to old fashioned buckets and a decent shampoo.

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## Alex_225

I never found foam to offer any better cleaning than the pressure washer could achieve on its own! 

Upon recommendation I moved over to Citrus Pre-Wash and a pump sprayer. This actually does what I anticipated snow foam would and soaks into the dirt which rinses off with just a hose pressure! 

Foam is novel and a bit of fun but form over function from my experience!


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## Hawkesybaby

God is this still going?!?


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## Cookies

Alex_225 said:


> I never found foam to offer any better cleaning than the pressure washer could achieve on its own!
> 
> Upon recommendation I moved over to Citrus Pre-Wash and a pump sprayer. This actually does what I anticipated snow foam would and soaks into the dirt which rinses off with just a hose pressure!
> 
> Foam is novel and a bit of fun but form over function from my experience!


Citrus pre-wash is great stuff. Just be careful if you have "chrome" or black "chrome" trims as it can cause efflorescence - a rainbow type stain that can't be removed.

Simply wipe the citrus prewash off the trims with a damp microfibre when using the prewash. Easy.

Cooks

Sent from my D6603


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## cadmunkey

Hawkesybaby said:


> God is this still going?!?


Who won? :lol:


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## Clean-my-sxi

cadmunkey said:


> Who won? :lol:


Detailing world


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## euge07

I like snowfoam, BUT feel you do need to be using it on a protected car to see much benefit, 

I buy it in 25litres so its really cost effective, 

My method is first I spray wheel cleaner on wheels and tyres, then use BH Surfex in round the arches etc, spray off the wheel cleaner etc, then I foam the car and do the wheels/tyres, rinse off and then 2 bucket wash the body, I find it works well for me, for all the sake of a few quid I wouldn't do without a snowfoam now,


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## TonyHill

Some people like it, some don't......that's life. 
Let's move on folks, otherwise this thread will last all year!!:thumb:


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## cheekymonkey

nick_mcuk said:


> Well obviously beading isnt the sole indicator of an LSP....sorry didnt realise I had to spell out the basics so let me start being absolute in my replies, of course there are numerous indicators including beading being one of them along with visual appearance, slickness of the surface, the dirt repulsion and lack of adhesion to mention a few...
> 
> So back to the discussion probably my fault not to mention it but have run the Multi-wash TFR at 100% for more than one wash (i.e. numerous washes over a winter on 2 different cars with different LSP's) and it had little or no effect on the behaviour, appearance nor the ability of the LSP to repell the dirt and grime.
> 
> Also worth mentioning that in the 6 months of running the Multi-Wash TFR neat it did no damage to the plastics.
> 
> The reason behind this is that (as I already said) the Multi-Wash is mild...it assists in loosening the dirt on the surface of the panels so that if makes for a safer wash as you are not moving the dirt about...I merely add in some PH Neutral foam into the mix now because it means the product can sit longer on the surface and let the TFR do its job.
> 
> Again you are jumping on the "TFR is spawn of the devil" band waggon and used correctly it is perfectly safe but you clearly just don't get this or you are just reverting to your usual "Couch Conan" argumentative form and simply wont accept someone else's point of view and you have to be right.
> 
> As for the comment about most TFR's being able to be used as a APC....again you strictly are not correct on that, and there are numerous examples that cant be used on interiors.
> 
> If you want to use tfr you do so. my first point was using tfr at a rate in the bottle of 1/4 to 1/2 + 150ml snow foam i dowt would be lsp safe, and stop the rubbish about jumping on the tfr is evil band wagon. i use tfr it is a good product when used right and for the right job.
> If multi wash is as safe as you claim why wont AG guarantee it wont damage a vehicle. will only go as far as stating it minimises the risk. you claim its mild yet has a ph of 13.28.
> All the snow foams i use wont damage any part of the car. that to me is important.
> As for not taking your point of view, as i say i have used both those products and also read the SDS. From those points i dont see them as safe enough for car paint.
> 
> Any tfr can be used as a apc it just needs a higher dilution.
> 
> SDS of multiwash
> 
> file:///C:/Users/Toshiba/Downloads/NO.65_MULTIWASH_TFR.pdf


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## cheekymonkey

nick_mcuk said:


> Again not true...I regularly just use plain water through the pressure washer to pre-rinse. If you have a well maintained surface and your LSP is up to scratch you should be able to rinse off a good amount of crud with just plain water. As for the comments about Jesse I am fully aware of Wolfs products but this was way back...it might not have been him that did the test but it was defo posted on here...was a number of years back and if I recall it was on a white car.
> 
> *What a lot of folk on here really dont get (you included here) is that for a snow foam to be effective and remove grime it must have the same surfactants as a TFR*...just because the bottle it comes in says is PH Neutral and LSP safe is all marketing spin. If it doesn't contain the chemicals all its going to do is wet the car with a load of messy foam...so in that case you are simply better off doing a wet down of the car with a hose....leaving it while you fill up your buckets then giving it a thorough prewash with the pressure washer.
> 
> I am out now...I am pretty bored of the frankly obnoxious way you consistently steadfastly will not have a discussion without taking others experiences, findings and knowledge into account and you have to be right all the time and belittle others.


firstly i now all about surfacants, there are many diffrent surfacants and multi wash uses stronger more harsh surfacants than any of the snow foams i use 
Take the one below which is in multiwash, scroll down to the part on the right handside where it covers hazards. Its very harsh 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_silicate.

secondly, i agree that snowfoams contain surfacants, and they use those chemicals to clean. Another purpose of surfacant is to soften dirt making removal easier.


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## GleemSpray

cadmunkey said:


> Who won?


Nobody really won. like many threads on DW it seems to have dried up once self-appointed-expert-in-alll-subjects Cheeky monkey started wading in and declaring everyone wrong...

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## Clyde

Gave up on snow foam a long time ago, just never go the results some did. Its much quicker and easier to use a pre wash in a pump sprayer which is what I've been doing for a few years now.


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## FJ1000

Why does there have to a winner?

This is a discussion forum. There are lots of interesting views and bits of info in here. There is never going to be a one-size fits all "answer", as there are so many different variables and requirements. 

I for one have learned something from this thread; I never considered TFR as a good option, but am going to look into it now.

Those that want shut down the discussion- why don't you go read something else if this doesn't interest you? 


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## steelghost

FJ1000 said:


> Why does there have to a winner?
> 
> This is a discussion forum. There are lots of interesting views and bits of info in here. There is never going to be a one-size fits all "answer", as there are so many different variables and requirements.
> 
> I for one have learned something from this thread; I never considered TFR as a good option, but am going to look into it now.
> 
> Those that want shut down the discussion- why don't you go read something else if this doesn't interest you?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You get out of here with your "common sense" and your "maybe not everyone wants or needs the same thing". This is Detailing World! There must be One True Way of doing something! Remind me again, where's the One True Way thread?

:lol:


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## GleemSpray

steelghost said:


> You get out of here with your "common sense" and your "maybe not everyone wants or needs the same thing". This is Detailing World! There must be One True Way of doing something! Remind me again, where's the One True Way thread?
> 
> :lol:


The One True Way thread is in The Emperors New Clothes sub-forum .... :lol::lol:


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## Steve_6R

cheekymonkey said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> now thats funny.
> 
> As i recall one of your favored pre washes is a tfr.


As is mine, not sure what the issue is there.

I've used power maxed TFR for the last year, and I love it. Diluted correctly it's very effective, and I've never found it to strip any protection already on the car.

I find snowfoam a hassle when I've used it. It's fun, and looks good on instagram, but it's messy, and I get similar results with my TFR.

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## WHIZZER

Chaps Can we please Play Nice - Seems to be another thread that gets into a Slanging match between a few members - Thread CLOSED


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