# Are car buyers really this naive



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Just had an exchange of messages with a friend of my wife about her new car:

"Andy, I have a new car, got a great deal"

"What did you get - no idea that you were thinking of changing your car"

"I was just browsing, told them what I was willing to pay and they did me a great deal, its an AMG"

"What model?"

"Its an A Class"

"An A45?"

"No, its an A180"

"So not an AMG, its an A180 diesel AMG Line?"

"That's it, is it a diesel then?"

"Yes, did you not have a test drive?"

"No, did not need one, just fell in love with it"

"So what was the deal then?" 

"£260 per month"

"HP, PCP, Contract Hire, what term?"

"I have no idea - but £260 a month for an AMG is great isn't it - they said I can change it anytime I want"

"What mileage limit?"

"No idea but I am not bothered"

"What deposit"

"Only had to put in £2000 and my car"

"What did they give you for your car?"

"I don't know but they said it was a great deal"

"You do know you have bought an obsolete model don't you?"

"It isn't - its brand new"

At that I gave up - gobsmacked that people enter into such so completely clueless, wife has asked me to look at the deal she got - I'm staying well away from it - even if its a complete rip off she will still believe she has a great deal


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

I've stopped arguing/advising/helping idiots in most ways. If they are happy being ripped off, leave them to it. It'd probably annoy me every time they refer to it as a wrong car, but most people who know will probably just ignore that anyway lol


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

just shows how companies can make so much money off clueless people.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Spike85 said:


> just shows how companies can make so much money off clueless people.


And can you blame them - I certainly don't.

Such clueless people I suppose make good deals for the switched on actually possible


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

A fool and their money ,,,,,,,


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

oh god no, people really should be more switched on in this day and age.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Having spent 2 years selling them some people are just fixated on monthly payments, they don't take into account interest or anything. I had someone put in 10k deposit on an A3 Tdi on a 4 year PCP because he wanted low monthly payments. At the end he still had to find another 6k.

PCP's are ok but you really need to have your eyes open and your pants superglued on.


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

I always hear an advert on the radio for Northumbria Car Sales. If you find yourself needing to accept their rates of credit, it's surely time to give up on car ownership. 

Taken from their website:
Typical Credit Example:
Vehicle Price: £6,350.00
Cash Deposit: £500.00
Balance to Finance £5,850.00
Total charge for credit: £6,260.93
Total Amount Payable: £12,610.93
Typical APR: 39.8%
Agreement duration: 60 Months

But they give you £100 cashback! Wow, that's amazing.


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

I feel your frustration - but it's only because it's a subject you're aware of. I bet you've been ripped off, just like her I may add, on loads of different things - I know I have be it holidays, computers, houses, furniture etc!

It's just what keeps the wheels of England turning :lol:


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

davies20 said:


> I feel your frustration - but it's only because it's a subject you're aware of. I bet you've been ripped off, just like her I may add, on loads of different things - I know I have be it holidays, computers, houses, furniture etc!
> 
> It's just what keeps the wheels of England turning :lol:


I don't anymore. I do my research and not afraid to ask for advice from friends / colleagues etc.

People who know me know I'm always happy to help them get a good deal on things car related - very rare people take up my help - more fool them


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

andy665 said:


> I don't anymore. I do my research and not afraid to ask for advice from friends / colleagues etc.
> 
> People who know me know I'm always happy to help them get a good deal on things car related - very rare people take up my help - more fool them


Doesn't matter how much research you do, companies still have to make a profit off you!


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

davies20 said:


> Doesn't matter how much research you do, companies still have to make a profit off you!


Don't begrudge anyone making a profit but always do what I can to make sure they make less from me than many others who just go in blindly


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

davies20 said:


> Doesn't matter how much research you do, companies still have to make a profit off you!


Surely it is the degree of profit that they make?

Ps ever heard of a loss leader?


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Yes, people incredibly naive and generally ignorant. It's how people fall for these 'great deals' which actually turn out to not be that great. 

Half the problem is that people only look at the monthly cost. Combine that with the fact that dealerships encourage these kinds of deals and tailor your 'deal' to what you're prepared to pay per month and people go for it. 

The reality is that for many many people driving new/nearly new vehicles today, if they had to actually pay off the entire cost, they wouldn't be driving it. If you consider that an average car can easily cost £25k, across 4 years and without interest for someone to own that outright it would cost over £500! 

The sad fact is that unless you have a hell of a lot of disposable income, actually owning a new(ish) car without the use of PCP/lease isn't a viable option as ordinary cars are so bloody expensive. Combined with the fact that people have to have new cars, plus assume they have to have a warranty and they'll lap up the cheap deals on mediocre cars!


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Alex_225 said:


> Yes, people incredibly naive and generally ignorant. It's how people fall for these 'great deals' which actually turn out to not be that great.
> 
> Half the problem is that people only look at the monthly cost. Combine that with the fact that dealerships encourage these kinds of deals and tailor your 'deal' to what you're prepared to pay per month and people go for it.
> 
> ...


Completely agreed. She thinks she has a great deal - I see £260 per month plus deposit on an obsolete 1.5 litre Renault engined small car and therefore not a great deal


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## macca666 (Mar 30, 2010)

I agree with others that people are fixated now on a monthly payment and think if they get to that figure then they've got a good deal.

Recently for me buying cars although not fixated by my monthly outlay it plays a major part. As many of us know garages play with figures to try and make us believe were getting a better deal. I never focus on a trade in value I focus on what I need to pay to change as no doubt we've all been there where the garage try to con us by giving an extra grand as a trade in only to realise the car we're buying is two grand dearer meaning we're actually 1 grand worse off with the better trade in deal  

As we all know garages vary wildly in the deals they offer and dependant when you go in and what sales they need to make will depend on the offer you get.

I've always been quite generic before and used to say that if someone is happy with the deal they get then it's a good deal.

Unfortunately as you have shown Andy this isn't always the case anymore as there are too many variables which buyers go into blindly ie mileage restrictions, final payments etc.

What I will say is that a good deal for one isn't necessarily a good deal to another and each to their own whether they go down outright purchase, PCP, PCH etc.

It does still amaze me though at the naivety of some buyers who don't even understand what model, engine, fuel etc. the car they've just 'bought' is as you've shown by your example :wall:


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

andy665 said:


> Completely agreed. She thinks she has a great deal - I see £260 per month plus deposit on an obsolete 1.5 litre Renault engined small car and therefore not a great deal


Yes but you don't understand, it's BRAND NEW!!!! Therefore it's amazing and shiny and just pure awesome. :lol:

The sad fact is that for many people buying new cars and paying X amount a month, they are drawn in to the whole buying a new car novelty. For most of those people, 6 months down the line the novelty has worn off, it's not new any more but they're still paying that amount monthly.

What always bothers me is that if you're main car is on a lease/PCP type deal then you have to be very confident that you will always have that money available. At least if you finance a car but put down a good deposit and pay off more than the depreciation, you'll have some equity in the vehicle. Anyway, that's probably another discussion really.

Ultimately, people are naive so combine that with the fact that cars are so expensive and you'll have a hell of a lot of people paying for bad deals on uninteresting cars.


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

In answer to your question Andy
'Are car buyers really this naive?'

Short answer - YES ! :lol:


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

andy665 said:


> Don't begrudge anyone making a profit but always do what I can to make sure they make less from me than many others who just go in blindly


Good lad!!

I suppose the main thing, is she happy? Aslong as she's happy that's all that matters. Can't put a price on happiness (to a degree :lol


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## sshooie (May 15, 2007)

I sold our 2 year old caravan some years ago and spoke to the guy on the phone about collection, I said I had some mirrors he could have if they fitted his car, great, thanks he said. 

So I asked what car he had...he couldn't tell me, he thought it was a Peugeot but wasn't sure what type, when he arrived it was a Vectra!


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## percymon (Jun 27, 2007)

If she is happy then that's fine, but yes I dare say most of us would have battled out for something better

More alarming is the fact she doesn't seem to know what she's signed up for (good or bad)


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

I know someone at work, his Mrs needs to change the car. Always had PCH at VW, wants something different.

Merc.... A180 AMG Line.

Dealer doing a great offer.... hand in their 4 year old Golf and only pay £320 a month, (even offering NO DEPOSIT - wow thanks)

I showed him a lease deal on the same car.... £245 with 3 down as a deposit.

"Yeah but we don't need to find a deposit from the one from the dealer"

"And we would rather buy one from a Dealership"

.....don't bother.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

percymon said:


> If she is happy then that's fine, but yes I dare say most of us would have battled out for something better
> 
> More alarming is the fact she doesn't seem to know what she's signed up for (good or bad)


And of course when she gets hit by final payment, excess mileage etc it will be the thieving dealers fault - taking advantage of a woman, not telling me the facts etc etc

I'm sure all details are in the documentation that she has signed but that will not be relevant will it :lol:


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

They are indeed. She will probably only get 5000 miles, so I sure hope she doesn't go over it. Sounds like she has bought into the whole Mercedes and oh it's got AMG which means its good saga. These cars are so common now, I would not look at one, maybe an A45 if I had the cash. Also, I bet she doesn't need a diesel, someone is going to get a nice bill to fix the DPF and ERG valve. 

Its staggering how many people look at the monthly costs. I saw a M140i deal £400 a month over 48 months, £999 deposit, 5000 miles limit. That's just insane. Also as someone has mentioned you have to make sure you have the money every month! At least if you get a loan, you can sell the asset if things dont work out. So the debt, and a poor credit rating is worth it for that 'brand new' car.


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## petemattw (Nov 3, 2008)

I used to buy new cars regularly (every 2-3 years) i'd either pay cash or finance it, but never lease. I've got to the point now where the only car I'd have is the new version of my current car (BMW 5 series) my colleauges are always surprised that i'm driving a 6 year old car with 106k on the clock instead of new like them, but as I point out my car is paid for which is why i have money for other things unlike them who are driving £30-40k cars on the never never and having to fork out £££ every month. What i've noticed is the less someone earns, the more expensive the car is that they seem to drive.... Crazy! These are the same people complaining that they can't save a deposit to buy a house...


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

petemattw said:


> Imy colleauges are always surprised that i'm driving a 6 year old car with 106k on the clock instead of new like them, but as I point out my car is paid for which is why i have money for other things unlike them


But to put a fair slant on it

(no bias as I have one 28 year old car, another 18 yr/old car another 13 yr/old car, one 13 year old Camper and a 1 week old Lease Car)

They could say they choose to spend money on New cars rather than other things.

Plenty of people about earning Good money that spend on other things and drive an old car...then moan they don't drive a New car.

Swings and roundabouts.... money will be spent on something, if it isn't the world don't work.


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## petemattw (Nov 3, 2008)

robertdon777 said:


> But to put a fair slant on it
> 
> (no bias as I have one 28 year old car, another 18 yr/old car another 13 yr/old car, one 13 year old Camper and a 1 week old Lease Car)
> 
> ...


But they complain that they can't afford to buy a house is my point. My car and bike are both bought and paid for and i'm currently buying another house to add to the portfolio. It's the impatience for instant gratification today (i sound old but i'm really only 37!)


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## petebak (Jul 19, 2017)

petemattw said:


> I used to buy new cars regularly (every 2-3 years) i'd either pay cash or finance it, but never lease. I've got to the point now where the only car I'd have is the new version of my current car (BMW 5 series) my colleauges are always surprised that i'm driving a 6 year old car with 106k on the clock instead of new like them, but as I point out my car is paid for which is why i have money for other things unlike them who are driving £30-40k cars on the never never and having to fork out £££ every month. What i've noticed is the less someone earns, the more expensive the car is that they seem to drive.... Crazy! These are the same people complaining that they can't save a deposit to buy a house...


Absolutely spot on!

My two kids wanted to have new fiestas when they passed their tests last year as they were "only" £130 pm.

My answer was no, and I then explained it all to them in laymans terms, and that I had put money away for their first car from when they were born so they can have a car up to £6k and the rest for insurance at around £1300.

I was not prepared to let them have a minefield hanging over them in their early years, I never did and was taught very early that loans are the devil (other than a repayment mortgage), yes I was upset that others had new cars and I had older ones, but when I had save the money I had much better cars than them and I actually owned them!

A little pain for a life that now means I owe nothing and have the best in most things, all down to hard work, you also cherish them more.

The kids are happy and understand the reasoning, oh and of course when I detail their cars, as they invariably look better than all their friends new cars

Society is storing up massive issues yet again


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

petemattw said:


> But they complain that they can't afford to buy a house is my point. My car and bike are both bought and paid for and i'm currently buying another house to add to the portfolio. It's the impatience for instant gratification today (i sound old but i'm really only 37!)


Haha we are too old.

The New generation is and always will be a want/have it now:

Amazon and all the others play this game and we lap it up and expect it from everything.

This is why the normal retailers/traders and even places like the NHS are suffering... People want it NOW...no matter what.

Right or wrong its the way things are.

Is it wrong for an 17yr/old to walk into Ford, pay £250 deposit and drive away in a new Fiesta for £149 a month fixed payments..nothing to worry about for 3 years?

or do what I did buy an old banger at 17yrs/old and keep it running with holes in the floor, hammering off old exhausts with a chisel etc etc.... Now i'm a bit older (lots older) I'd take the Fiesta because nobody pays you for your own time!.

Bought and Paid for doesn't make it better....you'll still have to pay out on it either way, very hard to get a Free car whichever way its financed.

*Another way to look at cars and finance:

*Total up all the cars you've purchased, all the money you've spent and put it all on paper:

Say over 30 years of driving..... say £100,000 - £150,000.

Now sell the car you've got and see how much money you have: ££

Cars whichever way they are financed are a waste of money...but good fun.


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## petebak (Jul 19, 2017)

robertdon777 said:


> Haha we are too old.
> 
> The New generation is and always will be a want/have it now:
> 
> ...


Fair enough,

I have probably spent well over the quarter million figure over 30+ years, and it has been fun

But knowing I have earned this money and planned well for it gives me pleasure in knowing that I have not made some loan company richer.

We all know that we lose money on cars, but for me I can stomach this as I want to enjoy my hard work and planning.

Kids of today do want it now, and think things come easy, I have lost count of the number of people saying" I cant afford to pay what I owe, or I have debt collectors chasing me"

People who do this have it now style are their own worst enemy and I have zero sympathy for them, especially when they moan that they cant afford to pay their heating bills etc.

You reap what you sow in life.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

petebak said:


> Fair enough,
> 
> I have probably spent well over the quarter million figure over 30+ years, and it has been fun
> 
> ...


Bet you wished you'd financed a Ferrari F40 over 20 years though with the £250,000.... worth a cool 1 million now.

Who says finance don't work.

Crystal ball and all that.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

I borrowed some money to finance the Westfield but its actually appreciating (marginally) in value so consider it a reasonable investment, the interest I pay (at 3.2%) is more than offset by the rise in value (approx. 7% last year)


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## petebak (Jul 19, 2017)

:QUOTE=robertdon777;5448382]Bet you wished you'd financed a Ferrari F40 over 20 years though with the £250,000.... worth a cool 1 million now.

Who says finance don't work.

Crystal ball and all that.[/QUOTE]

:car:

Hmm fair point hindsight is such a wonderful thing, hopefully though the planning will get me the Ferrari when I finally hang up the work in 2 years when I am 55


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## pxr5 (Feb 13, 2012)

Interesting thread. Thanks all.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

robertdon777 said:


> Bet you wished you'd financed a Ferrari F40 over 20 years though with the £250,000.... worth a cool 1 million now.
> 
> Who says finance don't work.
> 
> Crystal ball and all that.


Don't think my wifes friend will be seeing a return on her "investment" :lol:


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## Derek Mc (Jun 27, 2006)

My experience is that so many are! and also, this is truly why many car salesmen can get such a bad reputation as they see the obvious and "go with it" it is really a case of caveat empetor,,, buyer beware!


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

andy665 said:


> Don't think my wifes friend will be seeing a return on her "investment" :lol:


She will be the talk of her street for 5mins in her AMG though.....that counts for something.


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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

I how much money she owes on other things, store cards, credit cards.


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## wayne451 (Aug 15, 2016)

Low monthly payments aren't always the work of the Devil.

I walked in to Peugeot, put down £2k down and paid £37.15 a month for 2 years for my poverty spec brand new 108 access.

I then had a final payment, which they tweaked marginally through negotiation of £4800.00.

So a total of £7691.60 which would have included 'interest'. It's now owned outright.

Same car starts at £9120.00. :lol:


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