# Some advice, please



## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Afternoon all.

I'm looking for some advice, preferably from some of the guys and gals on here who know a bit about engines. 

About 4 weeks back, my wife's A class merc (1.5 diesel a180) broke down, and went into limp mode. It was making a fairly loud cracking noise, and so we stopped the car and called the recovery service. They ran diagnostics, and advised that it was the DPF and the turbo. Roll on a few days, the garage I bought the car from told my it was sorted, and that it turned out to be the fuel filter temperature sensor. The car is now running reasonably well, with only one issue. 

When you start the car from cold (after being left overnight) it is VERY smokey, with a light blue/grey smoke appearing for around 10 -15 seconds, after which it clears. I put a new set of glow plugs into the car, but it's still smokey on cold start.

Anything I can ask the garage to check for me? 

Any thoughts are, as always, gratefully received. 

Cheers

Cooks

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## Fentum (May 1, 2017)

Sorry mate, diesel is a closed book to me.

I hope it gets sorted.

Peter


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Fentum said:


> Sorry mate, diesel is a closed book to me.
> 
> I hope it gets sorted.
> 
> Peter


Cheers, Peter.

N

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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

Sounds like a either an adblue (if it has adblue) possible over injecting on the end of the cycle.
Or a leaking diesel injector (more concerning) 
Adblue gives a white smoke, mostly for the first 5-10 minutes until exhaust systems got warm. 
Not really working, this time of the year most adblue vehicles smoke heavy (steam) for the first time. 
Blue smoke is oil, black smoke is fuel.

My advise would be to run the engine very hot, make sure it regenerate (drive a couple of miles around 3000rpm around 30 minutes) 
Than let the engine cool down overnight, if it's white smoke in the morning, fine just keep an eye on adblue use (if it has adblue) 
If it smokes blue in the morning i would have the turbo checked. 

There is a chance that the engine is over fueled as the sender on the fuel-filter was incorrect (Never heard of a temperature sender on the fuel, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist), filling the DPF with fuel.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

If there is no actual faults and so the smoke is just a rich mixture I would check with your dealer or main dealer if there is a reset so that the computer can re-learn the system.

How much fuel density changes with temperature I do not know but that temperature sensor is so the computer knows the density and therefore how much to inject. There will also be one for the intake air temperature for a similar reason along with an engine temperature sensor and o2 in the exhaust.

When the engine is cold the fuel mixture requires enrichment and again so long as there is no actual fault the computer is getting it wrong based on the data it is collecting.


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## telewebby (Apr 27, 2009)

how old is it, what milage etc?
in the nissan world they are know for injector and turbo issues

Alex


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

If it didn’t smoke before it broke down then it shouldn’t smoke afterwards. I know the 2.1has a heater element built into the filter but wasn’t aware the 1.5 did assuming it’s a Nissan/Renault engine, although with a registration number I can check for you tomorrow 

If the car did have dpf issues I would expect the garage to carry out a road test - approx 30-45 minutes with diagnostics attached so that could see if the dpf soot content has dropped, but I don’t think that’s your issue.


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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

Does it start fine other than the smoke?


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Great stuff guys, very many thanks. 

The car is a 14 reg with 52k on it. It doesn't use adblue. I bought it from a local dealer (not mercedes) who my family have bought cars from in the past, so I do trust them. I just want to be reasonably well informed when I get back to them next week. 

My mrs has just completed a 200 mile round trip to her dads, and the car ran really well, apart from the smoke when I started it for her this morning. It clears after about 15 or 20 seconds. It sounds like it's idling a wee bit rough when it starts, but a cold diesel doesn't sound too refined at the best of times

The injector leaking sounds like a fair possibility. So I'll definitely be chasing them to investigate that. 

I totally agree that it shouldn't be doing this, so I definitely want it sorted. My 2004 focus doesnt smoke on start-up (much lol) so the Mrs' merc shouldn't. 

Thanks guys- really appreciate the advice. 

Cooks

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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

SteveTDCi said:


> If it didn't smoke before it broke down then it shouldn't smoke afterwards. I know the 2.1has a heater element built into the filter but wasn't aware the 1.5 did assuming it's a Nissan/Renault engine, although with a registration number I can check for you tomorrow
> 
> If the car did have dpf issues I would expect the garage to carry out a road test - approx 30-45 minutes with diagnostics attached so that could see if the dpf soot content has dropped, but I don't think that's your issue.


Thanks mate - I'll PM you the details now if that's ok.

Cheers - I really appreciate it mate.

Niall

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## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

Hope you get it sorted out mate - if it's of any help, wife's car sounds like a tractor first thing in the morning when it's cold - not the most refined of diesels, but sounds quite enough inside once moving...


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Andyblue said:


> Hope you get it sorted out mate - if it's of any help, wife's car sounds like a tractor first thing in the morning when it's cold - not the most refined of diesels, but sounds quite enough inside once moving...


You should hear my 06 mondeo first thing ......


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## blademansw (May 23, 2011)

In my humble opinion, I would find either a very good local Mercedes specialist, or drop it into the main dealer and get them to diagnose "smoke on cold engine start".

They have the diagnostics and know how to properly find the fault and will save you money in the long run over a long session of tryagnostics.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

blademansw said:


> In my humble opinion, I would find either a very good local Mercedes specialist, or drop it into the main dealer and get them to diagnose "smoke on cold engine start".
> 
> They have the diagnostics and know how to properly find the fault and will save you money in the long run over a long session of tryagnostics.


Good call. I'll give the dealer an opportunity to sort it first, but if it isnt fixed, I'll definitely take that route.

Cheers,

Cooks

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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

As far as Im aware, the 1.5l diesel unit in the Merc A180 CDI is sourced from Renault. Dont think there's any reason to believe that a merc specialist will know much more about this engine than any other mechanic to be perfectly honest.


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## blademansw (May 23, 2011)

Rayaan said:


> As far as Im aware, the 1.5l diesel unit in the Merc A180 CDI is sourced from Renault. Dont think there's any reason to believe that a merc specialist will know much more about this engine than any other mechanic to be perfectly honest.


You are quite correct as to the provenance of the engine hardware. The diagnostics that the powertrain control module offers is quite a different story however. Mercedes of course like many other manufacturers use proprietary functions in their STAR diagnostics that are not easily available using generic OBD2 diagnostics.


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## SunnyBoi (Apr 25, 2013)

Cookies said:


> When you start the car from cold (after being left overnight) it is VERY smokey, with a light blue/grey smoke appearing for around 10 -15 seconds, after which it clears. I put a new set of glow plugs into the car, but it's still smokey on cold start.
> 
> Anything I can ask the garage to check for me?


This looks like tell tale signs of bad valve stem oil seals in the engine head to me


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

SunnyBoi said:


> This looks like tell tale signs of bad valve stem oil seals in the engine head to me


Ooh. Hadn't considered that! Thank you!!!

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## grunty-motor (Aug 11, 2016)

SunnyBoi said:


> This looks like tell tale signs of bad valve stem oil seals in the engine head to me


sounds like it - maybe also turbo related on the oil seepage side


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

SunnyBoi said:


> This looks like tell tale signs of bad valve stem oil seals in the engine head to me


You would get it also on a warm start up when the engine has been stood for half an hour or so, and on overrun.
Anyway keep an eye out for the oil level.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Caledoniandream said:


> You would get it also on a warm start up when the engine has been stood for half an hour or so, and on overrun.
> 
> Anyway keep an eye out for the oil level.


Definitely only on cold start. Will keep an eye on the oil for sure!

Cheers

Cooks

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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Ok, here's a quick vid of the car starting this morning.






Cheers

Cooks

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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

Worth doing a leak off test on the injectors imo:thumb:

Cheers,

Chris


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Right, update time. 

Since my last post, I contacted a number of local garages to see if any could take the car and give me a conclusive diagnosis for the smoke on cold start. None of them either could or would take it. I then found one that would take it, but not until well into February. 

I spoke to a good friend, who has a mechanic friend with a dealer level diagnostic machine, and he offered to check the ECU for any fault codes. We dis this on new years day, and while there was some fairly innocuous codes read, nothing that would relate to the smokiness. One thing that nearly made me keel over, was the ECU reading of the odometer (90 something thousand!). Turns out it was in kilometers. 

Then another friend said he had recently got an injector test kit, so we did the injector leak test on 15th February. All of them were absolutely fine. 

Then I decided to just book it in with Mercedes (as suggested earlier in the thread). 

We collected the car last thursday, and the diagnosis was - turbo failure. 

I emailed the report over to the dealer, and then rang the following day (friday). He was too busy to speak to me, and said hed ring me back. Got a text later that day to say he'd ring me on monday before lunchtime. He didnt ring until almost 4pm. 

A somewhat frosty reception from him if I'm honest, followed by him asking whether i have been driving the car, and why it took me "all this time" to get it diagnosed.

I simply responded by explaining that in December he had told me the car was fine, and driving perfectly. 

He also told me that a used car warranty "only covers parts that have failed or a light comes on." I said it was a good job mercedes had diagnosed that the turbo had actually failed. He told me not to trust main dealers as he has had awful experiences with main dealers in the past.

He said he would speak to his mechanic to see when he could have a look at the car, as "there's only a couple of weeks left on the warranty." I said I'd drop the car up to him immediately. He said to wait, and he'd ring me back once he has spoken with his mechanic. 

No calls today. Unsurprisingly. 

I did, however, speak to a Solicitor, and it looks like there may be a claim for negligence (in that the car was returned to me with a fault remaining) and potentially breach of contract if the warranty isnt honoured. Dont know. I gave the solicitor all the detail, and they're away to think and will come back to me with a considered course of action. 

Fun eh. 

Cooks









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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

There's nothing more frustrating of having issues with your car and feeling you're peeing in the wind.

It's a fight to get anything done.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

In this situation you have to give the seller the chance to fix it.

I might let a third party inspect and diagnose the car but would not tell him that.

In a 'newer' vehicle I would look to a specialist to look at the car, not just an everyday garage. A newish Merc would be a job for a Merc specialist in my book.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

ollienoclue said:


> In this situation you have to give the seller the chance to fix it.
> 
> I might let a third party inspect and diagnose the car but would not tell him that.
> 
> In a 'newer' vehicle I would look to a specialist to look at the car, not just an everyday garage. A newish Merc would be a job for a Merc specialist in my book.


Totally agree. I've absolutely no issue with him trying to fix it, whether I have confidence in the work he does, is a whole other thing.

The fault was finally diagnosed by Mercedes last Thursday, so I dont think he can argue with the diagnosis, although I have no doubt he will.

I'll definitely get the car inspected following the work, as I definitely dont want any sort of a bodged repair.

Cheers.

Cooks

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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

I do not envy your situation. Would not be overly keen on letting them remedy the fault, "bodge" springs to mind.

Going legal is likely to be a world of pain. Whilst you may well win, getting your money / redress is another thing and only you can weigh up whether it's worth the time / stress.

I was in a similar position a few years ago - won the case but never got my money


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## HEADPHONES (Jan 1, 2008)

Hopefully the fact your family are long-term customers will put you in good stead and they'll do right by you now.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

This is what annoys me about car dealers. Most would buy from them really for peace of mind yet when you need to call up on that safety net...they always try to dodge.

If they put a new turbo in your car, yes they'll have lost their **** on the profit margin of one car but getting it done swiftly and showing you they'll look after you, you'd be back to them when you want another car!

It makes no sense, I see it all the time in many sectors, grab the cash and run, forget about the long game.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

> Since my last post, I contacted a number of local garages to see if any could take the car and give me a conclusive diagnosis for the smoke on cold start. None of them either could or would take it.


For a fault that doesn't show up on a code reader is a nightmare. For a dealer they probably have all the parts in stock to rebuild the car so can swap bits in and out until the problem is solved. Once solved they would hopefully only charge for the actual part plus all the labour. The other parts they might have tried in theory can go back in stock for in house repairs.

Probably a local garage is going to charge you for all the bits they try and you will be even less impressed with the size of the final bill.

The crank position sensor went on my car and didn't throw a code. The local garage I use couldn't see anything obvious so took it to a dealer to solve. Had I gone to the dealer straight away I could of saved a fair sum of money.


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