# Electric cars - who's got them?



## evobaz (Aug 28, 2007)

Who's got electric cars on here? Interested to know what you think of it, how easy is it to live with on a daily basis etc. Do you have trouble finding charging stations etc when out and about etc?

My work has a deal with a company and is allowing us to purchase cars on a Salary Sacrifice scheme. Due to the low company car tax (Bik - benefit in kind) on fully electric cars over the next 3 years there are some good looking deals to be had.

I must admit, I am tempted by an Audi Etron for the Mrs. 

Interested on folks thoughts etc (good or bad)


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

evobaz said:


> Who's got electric cars on here? Interested to know what you think of it, how easy is it to live with on a daily basis etc. Do you have trouble finding charging stations etc when out and about etc?
> 
> My work has a deal with a company and is allowing us to purchase cars on a Salary Sacrifice scheme. Due to the low company car tax (Bik - benefit in kind) on fully electric cars over the next 3 years there are some good looking deals to be had.
> 
> ...


Saw an article earlier today that suggests an E-Tron is not that cheap to charage out and about. I seem to recall that they compared it against a Q7 diseasel and the Q7 costs something like 22p a mile whereas the E-Tron is closer to 30p a mile.

I do like the whole electric car idea but sadly due to my living arrangements, it's not practical


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

Haven't got one, but i'd defo be looking a Polestar if I was buying!


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## blurb (Feb 13, 2008)

If you like the e-tron take a look at the Mercedes EQC too. Roughly 10% cheaper for the equivalent spec. Merc. This is comparing the e-tron 55 to the EQC.
I have a plug-in hybrid with a measly 20 mile range in pure electric, but often find destination chargers at shopping areas. Still average over 150 mpg with my usage profile.
Download the zap-map app to your phone and take a look at the chargers on the sorts of journeys you go on to get an idea of charge point availability.

I would also recommend having a lurk around speakev.com forum for loads of real world UK-centric info.
HTH


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Outlander PHEV hybrid here. Range on electric varies between 25 miles in summer to 17 in winter. No range anxiety thanks to a 2 litre petrol engine.

Works for me as commuting is within electric range (chargers at work also).

Averaging 110 mpg from the petrol.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

muzzer said:


> Saw an article earlier today that suggests an E-Tron is not that cheap to charage out and about. I seem to recall that they compared it against a Q7 diseasel and the Q7 costs something like 22p a mile whereas the E-Tron is closer to 30p a mile.
> 
> I do like the whole electric car idea but sadly due to my living arrangements, it's not practical


Interested in seeing the article - do you know where?

Amazed if an EV cost 30p/mile - On electric, my outlander PHEV costs about 5 to 6p per mile.


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## blurb (Feb 13, 2008)

I top up every night at 8p/kW from which i can average about 2.5-3.5 miles/kWh.
I suspect the charging example of the e-tron might be related to the cost at an Ionity charger on PAYG. I think that's possibly the most expensive way to charge any EV.


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## Paul_M3 (Jan 11, 2008)

evobaz said:


> Who's got electric cars on here? Interested to know what you think of it, how easy is it to live with on a daily basis etc. Do you have trouble finding charging stations etc when out and about etc?
> 
> My work has a deal with a company and is allowing us to purchase cars on a Salary Sacrifice scheme. Due to the low company car tax (Bik - benefit in kind) on fully electric cars over the next 3 years there are some good looking deals to be had.
> 
> ...


You don't work for EDF do you?


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

BMW i3S. Costs less that 2p per mile to charge at home on a cheap night rate tariff.
I'm guessing you haven't driven one yet. Go test drive one and find out what they're like. They are effortless to drive, very relaxed. Depending on what you go for, fast too.
Depends how many daily miles you need to do as to whether an EV will be good for you. If you can manage with home charging then that's great.


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## taz736 (Sep 5, 2011)

Nissan env200 is my current car, love it and no issues with it over the last 5 years. In Scotland it’s still free to charge at public charge stations too 👍


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

fatdazza said:


> Interested in seeing the article - do you know where?


I would presume it's THIS ONE. 

Alan W


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Alan W said:


> I would presume it's THIS ONE.
> 
> Alan W


Thanks - hadn't seen that.

So looks like some of these superfast chargers appear to be aiming to recover their installation costs etc. very quickly by whacking up the cost of electricity.

These seem a bit like the motorway services petrol stations which charge extra due to their "convenience" and sometimes "captive audience".


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## phillipnoke (Apr 1, 2011)

No one in there right minds


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

phillipnoke said:


> No one in there right minds


A well structured and balanced argument. Have you no old fruit you can throw as well? 😂


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

phillipnoke said:


> No one in there right minds


Can you expand on that please, I'm not sure I get your point. 

Alan W


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Got a Citigo e iV on order.

£20 a year to charge in public, but I'm also getting a 7kw home charger.

There are 3 public charges within 1 mile of my house and we are getting a couple installed for the work Tesla's on order.

:thumb:


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Alan W said:


> Can you expand on that please, I'm not sure I get your point.
> 
> Alan W


I think in answering the OP's question - "Electric cars - who's got them?" - he was casting nasturtiums about those who have.


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

You taking advantage of the government grant for the charger cueball?


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

GeeWhizRS said:


> You taking advantage of the government grant for the charger cueball?


Yeah, getting an untethered pod point for £380 after grant.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

fatdazza said:


> ......... - he was casting nasturtiums about those who have.


Is that not a plant? :lol:

Alan W


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## organgrinder (Jan 20, 2008)

I haven't gone down the EV route yet but might do for my wife when she changes her car. I know quite a few people with EV's and Hybrids. The Tesla is the standout EV if you need to cover decent mileages between charges (consider 200 miles a reasonable maximum unless you get the larger battery) and recharging is much easier due to their supercharger network. However if your wife only does shortish journeys an EV of any kind is perfect if you can charge it up at home.

I have a friend with an iPace which is great for 65/70% of his journeys and he charges it up at home but he has to drive to Inverness and Aberdeen sometimes and finds that a real pain to get the car charged so that he can come back down the road (no chargers where he needs to park or chargers are taken and he can't wait). He says if he could change car now he would buy a hybrid with a 60 or 70 mile electric range (I don't know if there are many of those but the new X5 hybrid and the GLE hybrid look as though they might get between 50 and 60 miles electric)


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

The Cueball said:


> Yeah, getting an untethered pod point for £380 after grant.


See if they're driving an earth rod in where your care will be charging. I understand this is the requirement now but many companies are not fitting them.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Alan W said:


> Is that not a plant? :lol:
> 
> Alan W


I think he is a plant


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

I've owned an EV for the last 12-months now and been tempted to write up my experience.

Thought it would be particularly interesting as I bought it knowing I have no ability to charge at home and still don't. I still aim to keep it even though my yearly mileage is going up from 4,500 with the minor weekend use, to now doing 80miles a day for a new job starting next week.

In all it's been a very positive experience and I can't ever imagine buying a ICE again.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

GeeWhizRS said:


> See if they're driving an earth rod in where your care will be charging. I understand this is the requirement now but many companies are not fitting them.


Already covered.. :thumb:



> Why your Pod Point Homecharger doesn't require an Earth Rod
> 
> All Pod Point Solo hardware contains a proprietary patent pending technology that allows direct connection to a PME supply.
> 
> ...


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

I'm not fully understanding of the ins and out of the earthing side of things. I'm sure you'll be fine. 😂
I ended up with a tethered Juicebox Pro 32. It's been grand. :thumb:


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## DLGWRX02 (Apr 6, 2010)

I come from a history of Subaru’s, V8’s and even a Range Rover sport, and buying an Ev was the best move I ever made. Got mine new in August 2018 (40kWh Leaf). I’ve just hit 20,000 miles. I charge 90% at home over night, (i have a Pod-Point 7kw charger). If I plan a long journey I just make sure I have a route that has several back up plans should I come across a faulty charger. I’ve driven from Great Yarmouth to Exmouth about 2 weeks after I collected it and apart from having a few extra hours added to the travel time due to charging it was relatively stress free. Since then even more of a charging infrastructure has been built. The biggest issue for any EV owner is the ignorance of other drivers (both electric and fossil fuelled) using public charging points as parking spaces. I’ve come close to doing a Vinnie Jones on several people just because of there ignorance.


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## evobaz (Aug 28, 2007)

Paul_M3 said:


> You don't work for EDF do you?


No I don't.


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## evobaz (Aug 28, 2007)

DrEskimo said:


> I've owned an EV for the last 12-months now and been tempted to write up my experience.
> 
> Thought it would be particularly interesting as I bought it knowing I have no ability to charge at home and still don't. I still aim to keep it even though my yearly mileage is going up from 4,500 with the minor weekend use, to now doing 80miles a day for a new job starting next week.
> 
> In all it's been a very positive experience and I can't ever imagine buying a ICE again.


Fire away, I'd certainly be interested in hearing how it's been to live with for 12 months. :thumb:

Best of luck in the new job.


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## Walesy. (Oct 1, 2009)

All these power points they want us to put in at home, to support the EV's they envisage us all having....have they considered the power supplies into the homes and what serves the streets? Time you add on 9 - 10Kw showers, electric ovens/hobs and then a supply for your car charge...Its going to be telling on the supply into the property.


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

The way this is going is you will plug your car in with an expected departure time and it will be charged by then. The grid and the network of electric vehicles will take what they can, when they can.... and also give it back when required. Balancing the grid is where we will see the changes coming in the coming years.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

evobaz said:


> Fire away, I'd certainly be interested in hearing how it's been to live with for 12 months. :thumb:
> 
> Best of luck in the new job.


Sure, so I work in London so got rid of my car around 2017. Cost of train commute + rarely driving made it seem pointless running a car. Parking is a nightmare around me too. Victorian terraced houses with no dedicated parking.

Missed owning a car, so tried to find the cheapest way to own a car. Looked at Yaris, etc. but still seemed expensive. Then looked into EV's. Father-in-law got a Tesla and I loved it and I was keen to try owning an EV myself. Wasn't going to go for a Tesla though!

Don't like the look of the Leaf, BMW i3 was too expensive and range wasn't great, so it left the Zoe really. They are the only EV still hell bent on the battery lease method though (although that is changing next month, as they are offering a buy out finally!), so I had to search high and low for a battery owned model. They are few and far between, as the way the PCP was structured meant lease models were cheaper per month (despite not working out cheaper in reality, as battery owned models held their value better than Renault predicted). After 6-months searching, found one!

I went with the 41kWh model as it allows a real world range of 180 in summer and 130 in winter. Battery is warrantied for 8-years too. I charge at either the charger in my town. As I still work in London, mileage has been low so only need charge once a week, sometimes bi-weekly. I either park it up and charge Sunday morning while at the gym and when I do the food shop, or charge at my parents when I visit. Bought a charger outright and had it installed at their house. Typically find chargers when I'm out and about. Usually they have free parking with it, so it's more convenient and I get fuel!

Overall, I've been paying around £0.15/kWh, so not as cheap as home charging, but certainly still very cheap. My new job is a 40mile commute away and I did think I had to give up the EV, but they have 6 chargers at the office so I will be able to charge each day while I'm parked at work. These are £0.25/kWh, so relatively expensive, but still cheaper than petrol. 20,000 miles a year would be about £2,500 depending on economy and price of petrol. The EV would be closer to £1,400. However, there is a subscription service being set-up by a new company that are currently offering £50/month for unlimited charging on any of their networks. I am hoping they cover most networks and deliver, as that would reduce my 'fuel' bill to just £600! If I had home charging, it could be as low as £275 using a EV night tariff. Hope to move house with a driveway next couple of years.

My Zoe is perfectly good as a car. Is well specced with Android Auto, climate control, rear camera, rear sensors, and the best feature, pre-heating the car from the app! The acceleration is great from a standstill, and it's so smooth. It absolutely wipes the floor with even some of the best automatic gearboxes around. Re-gen braking makes town driving effortless too.

In terms of cost, the car has suffered zero depreciation over the year. In fact, I could probably sell it for more. Service was free, but usually only cost £65 from Renault. Apart from insurance (£288) and a £40 MOT, I have spent nothing on the car, with just £96 on 'fuel'. Plan on extending the car warranty from Renault next year (3yrs old, but comes with a 4yr warranty on the car from factory) for £289.

Will look to trade up to a Tesla Model 3 in the next few years when used models come on at good prices. The supercharger network and efficiency of their cars are lightyears ahead of the competition and would make long distance travelling easy as ICE. The non-Tesla charging infrastructure is getting better, but needs massive improvement. But if you can charge from home/work reliably, they are fantastic.

Hope my plan to charge at work regularly works out. I've been checking availability most days and it seems OK! Will let you know next week!


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

You'd have achieved that range from the i3S if you drove it carefully. (But where's the fun in that?!)
If you aren't already.... get yourself on the Octopus energy GO tariff where your electric is 5p per kW between 12:30-04:30.
Discount code here gets us both 50 sheets if it works for you https://share.octopus.energy/brave-rhino-936


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I would buy a second hand Zoe, 130 miles a day range would be plenty enough for my needs.

What money for a second hand one and how much to change the battery? How much is a service, what tyres can go on it?


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## NeilG40 (Jan 1, 2009)

ollienoclue said:


> I would buy a second hand Zoe, 130 miles a day range would be plenty enough for my needs.
> 
> What money for a second hand one and how much to change the battery? How much is a service, what tyres can go on it?


Check out Electric Vehicle Man's used car guides on youtube, he used to post on here at one time but I'm not sure if he does anymore

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCigsK5EITQdgrY6f5qwRxkw/videos


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

ollienoclue said:


> I would buy a second hand Zoe, 130 miles a day range would be plenty enough for my needs.
> 
> What money for a second hand one and how much to change the battery? How much is a service, what tyres can go on it?


Yes the 41kWh will easily do 130miles all year round. I get 150 most of the year.

You need to separate out the battery lease models from the battery owned ones. 2016/17 models are quite rare, but the lease go for around £12/13k and the owned go for £16/17k. Might be worth seeing what the battery buy out for lease models turns out to be, as it might be worth buying a cheap lease model and doing that.

I searched high and low and picked mine up for £14,500. 2 years old with just 5,500 on the clock from Renault dealer. It was advertised for £15,800 and I haggled and then used PCP contribution from Renault to get it down to £14,500. Of course, I settled the finance straight away....Back then brand new from CarWow was £18,400. Today it's been replaced by the 52kWh version and they go for around £24k.

Don't worry about battery replacement costs. Warranty is for 8yrs/100k miles and degradation is barely anything. Even ones with 100k miles plus still are showing 90% battery health.

Servicing varies but typically around £75. The finance deal included 2 years servicing so I haven't had to pay yet. Tyres are just standard price. Tyre wear is actually much lower than ICE too.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

GeeWhizRS said:


> The way this is going is you will plug your car in with an expected departure time and it will be charged by then. The grid and the network of electric vehicles will take what they can, when they can.... and also give it back when required. Balancing the grid is where we will see the changes coming in the coming years.


Unfortunately the gird does not currently work in reverse. Smart chargers than don't switch on until 11pm or something could be done but my car powering the next live music session in the pub 50 yards away can't work at the minute.

If the national grid knows that at exactly 11pm GMT the nations cars will want charging they can spin up enough juice to do that fairly readily today. Overnight electricity consumption plummets to less than half capacity so between about 6pm and 6am you could charge a lot of cars with the grid as it stands.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I won't be buying a car brand new, I need a car that will drive 60 miles a day for 5 years so will buy pre-owned. The fuel saving alone will currently pay for the car I think.


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## DLGWRX02 (Apr 6, 2010)

ollienoclue said:


> Unfortunately the gird does not currently work in reverse. Smart chargers than don't switch on until 11pm or something could be done but my car powering the next live music session in the pub 50 yards away can't work at the minute.
> 
> If the national grid knows that at exactly 11pm GMT the nations cars will want charging they can spin up enough juice to do that fairly readily today. Overnight electricity consumption plummets to less than half capacity so between about 6pm and 6am you could charge a lot of cars with the grid as it stands.


You can buy Vehicle to grid chargers I believe I think ovo does something like it.
Yep here
https://www.ovoenergy.com/electric-cars/vehicle-to-grid-charger


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## Gafferinc (Jan 23, 2017)

Just wanted to gauge some views from you guys to support my argument with the wife.

I was thinking of getting a kia e-niro on the works lease scheme - 3 year lease, 10k miles pa, all insurance/service/tyres included - it's about 330 per month.

I think thats a decent deal for a fully electric with a decent range. She disagrees and says its a rip off.

Is it a reasonable price?


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## bigcarpchaser (May 6, 2008)

Sounds like cheap motoring to me...you do have to wear a balaclava while you drive a Kia though, just in case anyone you know sees you lol
Apart from that, great.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DLGWRX02 (Apr 6, 2010)

Gafferinc said:


> Just wanted to gauge some views from you guys to support my argument with the wife.
> 
> I was thinking of getting a kia e-niro on the works lease scheme - 3 year lease, 10k miles pa, all insurance/service/tyres included - it's about 330 per month.
> 
> ...


It depends on how much your paying currently to travel and any other car related costs.
For example, my previous Ranger Rover sport was costing me £400 a month in fuel alone, plus £600 per year for road tax, and servicing was minimum £500 but more like £1000 every year. Not to mention it was 10 years old in 2018, and parts ain't getting any cheaper.
I sold that, I paid £7k deposit on my leaf40 and pay £313 a month fir the car. I'm using about £35 a month extra in electric and I cover about 1100 miles a month. £0 road tax and servicing is £140-£180 a year. And it's warranty is for 5 years, so nothing to worry about. I've now covered 19,700 miles since new.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Nobody who is a true car lover IMO. 

I will continue to drain the world of fossil fuels until I physically get my cars taken off me.


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

atbalfour said:


> Nobody who is a true car lover IMO.
> I will continue to drain the world of fossil fuels until I physically get my cars taken off me.


If you are anywhere near Preston, I'll take you for a spin in mine. I've yet to have a passenger that isn't surprised. #doingmybit


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

GeeWhizRS said:


> If you are anywhere near Preston, I'll take you for a spin in mine. I've yet to have a passenger that isn't surprised. #doingmybit


I think yours looks the ticket, don't doubt it would put mine to shame in the economy stakes but silent cars aren't for me.. I'll take the pops and bangs from my quad exhausts and 25mpg for as long as the government allow me 

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## ken m sport (Aug 5, 2007)

We have an Audi E-tron, for a 2.5 SUV tonne car it is lovely to drive, completely effortless. The range isn’t quite what we expected usually about 175-202 miles, but starting to find new charging points each week. This car is heavy used for a EV, usually about 1-1.5k per month. Cheap to run given it is between Q5-Q7 size.


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

What they are not telling people is that the publicised ranges of these vehicles is in best-case scenarios (i.e. Summer temperatures and driving like Miss Daisy). In Winter and driving like a normal person you can take off 25% of the publicised range. Certainly for mine, motorway driving at anything more than 75mph eats battery.


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## NeilG40 (Jan 1, 2009)

GeeWhizRS said:


> What they are not telling people is that the publicised ranges of these vehicles is in best-case scenarios (i.e. Summer temperatures and driving like Miss Daisy). In Winter and driving like a normal person you can take off 25% of the publicised range. Certainly for mine, motorway driving at anything more than 75mph eats battery.


So just like petrol and diesel cars then.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

NeilG40 said:


> So just like petrol and diesel cars then.


Problem is it takes 3to4 mins to fuel a petrol or diesel car and off you go again.


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## NeilG40 (Jan 1, 2009)

Darlofan said:


> Problem is it takes 3to4 mins to fuel a petrol or diesel car and off you go again.


I'd like to know where you're able to do F1 style fuel stops, I always find that it's more like 10-15 minutes.


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

You make a point Neil, but then the manufacturers's don't seem to list leccy car ranges in the same way - there are no mpg figures to go off. There's just sort of a manufacturer's range and a real world range that 3rd party testers have come up with; but these are often in places like Portugal.
Mine will vary between say 170 miles driven on A roads and carefully, and about 60 miles in Winter at 100mph (flat out). 80mph will get you about 100 miles. It varies massively with speed and temperature. I tend to 'potter' on my way to my destination, then not so much on the way back.


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## bigcarpchaser (May 6, 2008)

Carwow did a real world range test on a load of electric cars, it’s an interesting video for anyone who’s interested in that sort of thing. 


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## ken m sport (Aug 5, 2007)

GeeWhizRS said:


> What they are not telling people is that the publicised ranges of these vehicles is in best-case scenarios (i.e. Summer temperatures and driving like Miss Daisy). In Winter and driving like a normal person you can take off 25% of the publicised range. Certainly for mine, motorway driving at anything more than 75mph eats battery.


Yes agree.


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## shl-kelso (Dec 27, 2012)

ken m sport said:


> Yes agree.


The ranges quoted are based on an industry standard test to ensure you can compare like for like. However they do nothing to give you a real-world figure for all conditions. In this case it's no different to mpg figures, which are just as unrealistic. At least the WLTP test is much more realistic for average use cases, but cold weather and high speed will see the actual mileage achievable drop considerably below these figures.

What amazed me about the Carwow tests was the differences in efficiencies between brands, so even some very large battery BEVs were only get a modest distance before running out of charge.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

NeilG40 said:


> I'd like to know where you're able to do F1 style fuel stops, I always find that it's more like 10-15 minutes.


Are you filling a petrol tanker? :lol:


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## NeilG40 (Jan 1, 2009)

Kerr said:


> Are you filling a petrol tanker? :lol:


Mostly queuing


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

NeilG40 said:


> Mostly queuing


Last time I waited that long for petrol was as the gulf war kicked off.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

Darlofan said:


> Problem is it takes 3to4 mins to fuel a petrol or diesel car and off you go again.


You need to remember that charging times are only relevant when you are on a journey where you are using more than the maximum range of the EV.

Whilst this will be different for everyone, in the last 12-months I have personally only driven once for more than 150miles (realistic max range of my EV) in the UK where I needed to stop and charge and actually wait.

Been using the car for my new job where I drive 40miles there and 40miles back. I simply plug in at the work carpark and walk away. It takes me around 1min to get the cable out the boot and plug it it. I then return after 8hours in the office to a fully charged car and take another minute unplugging and putting the cable back.

So for 99% of the time I use the car, charging is much quicker and more convenient than having to divert off my usual drive home to stop at a petrol station, fill up, pay, and then get back on route.

Be even quicker if you charge at home with a tethered charge point!


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

I charge mine a maximum of twice a week at home. Takes me as long as plugging in a hoover. (Tethered point)


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## Taxboy (Aug 23, 2006)

DrEskimo said:


> You need to remember that charging times are only relevant when you are on a journey where you are using more than the maximum range of the EV.
> 
> Whilst this will be different for everyone, in the last 12-months I have personally only driven once for more than 150miles (realistic max range of my EV) in the UK where I needed to stop and charge and actually wait.
> 
> ...


I'm interested in an EV and my daiky commute is similar to yours but unfortunately the infrastructure is still not great where I am. Definitely no charging points where I work and the closest are the other side of town in public car parks so no guarantee I could hook up on arrival.

Currently I think the best way may be PHEV. I know it's not the most efficient from a technological perspective having to carry both battery and an ICE but it will wean people off fossil and get them used to charging for the time when the infrastructure gets better

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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I'm not convinced opting for an EV is making me into a planet saver. I've already fudged the planet and hard because I am a Westerner. I even drank some Almond milk the other day, that is the ecological equivalent of driving a lawn mower through a crowd of baby seals.

There is no one on this forum who will live long enough to see fossil fuels run out. The USA are now oil exporters because of shale and fracking. They are awash with natural gas they don't even know what to do with.

Putting these reserves aside you could switch to 100% carbon neutral fuels today- HVO is a direct replacement for diesel and ethanol or butanol can be used in a lot of vehicles in varying proportions.

With the UK currently burning natural gas and coal like it is going out of fashion and the fairly stiff environmental impact of mining rare Earth materials to make electric cars, I wouldn't try to convince myself I'm doing my bit just yet. At least cities will have lower levels of air pollution though.

Of course I now have a hobby of cutting up, splitting and burning wood of an evening with my stove which has neither Ad-blu, a catalyst or a DPF as yet...


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## DLGWRX02 (Apr 6, 2010)

We all get tar’d with the same brush. Drive an ev and automatically your entered in to the hemp club, and by that I mean all my clothes must now only come from natural fibres, no longer eat anything that has once considered to of had feelings and even try to plug my natural gases. :wall: I had a guy just randomly come up to my wife and I in Tesco’s as I was putting the shopping in the boot of my car and his first words to me were “you lot are all the same, think your better than us by going electric” and then proceeded to lecture me on the “what he called the actual truths behind electric” are. I tried the normal ignore method but he wouldn’t have none, and I’m afraid people like that accept one answer, I pinned him to the trolly shelter and threatened to cave his skull in if he didn’t feck off! His immediate response “alright mate calm down ain’t you supposed to be like, all zen and that” as if I’m supposed to be hippy like, love peace and free the world! Well balls to that I drive an electric as it’s cheap, saves me money and it’s perfect for my way of life, sorry saving the planet was not in my top 100 list of reasons for going electric and if that offends others so be it. If I could afford to have my Mustang 5.0GT or RS6 then believe me I would..lol


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## mar00 (Jun 24, 2018)

intersting that most of the public think manufactures produce electric cars to be green and care about the enviroment, when really having a electric car in the range is to reduce their imposed target and aid them to keep selling old higher polluting cars, but people in general don't buy them becasue they care either mostly to save money, if any of it was about the enviroment they would be reducing the number of cars not swapping them,

log burners are looking to be much worse for envoroment and certainly for respiratory problems and cancer,


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## organgrinder (Jan 20, 2008)

mar00 said:


> log burners are looking to be much worse for envoroment and certainly for respiratory problems and cancer,


Mmmm. Where does that put me? I have just bought a new log burner and have a V8 petrol and 3 litre diesel on the driveway.

I'll be looking at electric next but might be more inclined to go hybrid.


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