# CG No Touch Snow Foam Didnt Work



## hag (Apr 8, 2010)

Need some advice from those who are using snow foam.

After seeing the amazing results on DW using the new generation snow foams from CG SF & AB using the AB HD lance I took the plunge. I bought a Nilfisk 110, the AB HD lance and a sample of CG No touch SF. 

I put 1" of SF in the lance bottle and topped up with warm water. 

At first the foam was very watery and then I realised which way round the -/+ on the dial should be adjusted in order to increase the foam:water ratio (+ = more water in the mix). I turned the dial to - as far is it goes and the foam became very thick. I coverd the car again with the thicker mix and left it to dwell for about 15 mins.

I removed the bottle from the lance in order to rinse.

The car wasnt as dirty as many of the others featured on the site but did have some muddy splashes on the wheel arches and the wheels were black with brake dust. (Black Mini).

To my disappointment, the muddy splashes are still present and the wheels are still fairly dust-laden

So, what am I doing wrong? My water is hard but I did get thick foam. Should I have left the foam on for longer or perhaps the PW isnt powerful enought to help the foam cut through the dirt.

Any suggestions appreciated


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

i dont think you did anything wrong, no snow foam is 100% cleaning. I take it you havent got a wax/sealant on the car? did it clean the rest of the car good?


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## hag (Apr 8, 2010)

Thanks for the reply Ben. The rest of the car is fairly clean. It hasnt been waxed since the summer but is still beading so there must some protection left. I suppose I have answered my own question by cosidering all the variable factors. I was expecting too much but the results posted were very impressive especially on very dirty cars.


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

i think if the wax was a week or month old you would have a lot better results, especially on the lower parts of the car. Remember the main objective of the foam is to pre wash the car before you physically touch it, so anything above 80% cleaning is amazing for a snow foam, especially on a car which hasnt seen wax for 6 months!


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

i found it not to be a complete touchless wash(foam).But going to try it on few other cars when i get chance but at £4 a litre bit dissapointed to be honest


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

i think lots of people think they will be able to snow foam an unprotected car and it be spotless, which is never going to happen even with very strong chemicals. A well protected car and good snow foam you can get close to a touchless wash, good enough to leave it in winter at most... but you will always need to follow it up with a wash if you want it to be spotless


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## Flair (Dec 11, 2010)

You may also have the foam too thick, if it's too thick and just sits there it wont do much imo with any snow foam.


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

fair enough but the name suggests otherwise


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

chrisc said:


> fair enough but the name suggests otherwise


very true


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2011)

Worked very well for me on a car with no LSP, that had not been washed for a couple of months and travelled about 1500 miles. I had a very small amount of greasy traffic film remaining which was removed as I dried the car.

IMHO, you should pre-rinse the bodywork at high pressure, particularly the lower sections. If you have anything like dried mud, use the p/w to shave these off leaving as little debris as possible remaining. It is going to be difficult for any foam to sufficiently penetrate caked on debris to allow the bond between the bodywork to be broken or significantly reduced.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

hag said:


> Need some advice from those who are using snow foam.
> 
> After seeing the amazing results on DW using the new generation snow foams from CG SF & AB using the AB HD lance I took the plunge. I bought a Nilfisk 110, the AB HD lance and a sample of CG No touch SF.
> 
> ...


Initially I would have suspected too weak a mix the inch thing is 150ml, 300ml of solution will coat a car and I reckon a 1:2 mix is sufficient (although I am going to increase the ratio on future episodes, when I used it I did not have the HD type lance, perhaps the rinse spray was too far away from the panels, especially as the machine is not the strongest in the flow rate battle , have a look at some of the vids , see if there are any tips to enhance your technique :thumb:


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

hag said:


> Need some advice from those who are using snow foam.
> 
> After seeing the amazing results on DW using the new generation snow foams from CG SF & AB using the AB HD lance I took the plunge. I bought a Nilfisk 110, the AB HD lance and a sample of CG No touch SF.
> 
> ...


Try a different Foam product Mate.. Ive been using foams since they came out and I bought 25 litres of CG snowfoam. It was that useless I actualy binned 15 to 20 litres of it ... Sorry but its not a very good product at all !


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

ChuckH said:


> Try a different Foam product Mate.. Ive been using foams since they came out and I bought 25 litres of CG snowfoam. It was that useless I actualy binned 15 to 20 litres of it ... Sorry but its not a very good product at all !


Chuck was that the cg no touch wash foam you used?


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## Ducky (Mar 19, 2007)

chillly said:


> Chuck was that the cg no touch wash foam you used?


Hope not, I've just brought 5 litres of it to try out, as my ValetPro one has finished...


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## alexandjen (Feb 24, 2008)

hag said:


> I removed the bottle from the lance in order to rinse.


So did you just rinse with the foam lance attachment (less the bottle) or did you change to the Nilfisk lance?


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Ducky said:


> Hope not, I've just brought 5 litres of it to try out, as my ValetPro one has finished...


a demo

and another

and another

these were not even using a HD lance and I'm sure the results would be much improved if I were :thumb:


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

chillly said:


> Chuck was that the cg no touch wash foam you used?


It was the later clear stuff. I had a 25 litre drum of the older green stuff that was fine.


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## xcJohn (Jan 23, 2011)

Used Megs Hyperwash on both a pre rinsed and non pre rinsed car. Both times the results were good. One car had Blackfire/Colli/Dodo PH (on various parts) LSP and the other had nothing. Dwell time the same on them both and results were.

No LSP - Pre rinsed - 50-60% touchless wash

LSP - No pre rinse - 80% touchless wash

I think the LSP makes a heck of a difference, applied about 1 month prior.

Interestingly, the 915 was on the tailgate and being an estate type car this gets VERY dirty however, this came up cleaner than the Blackfire sealed panels. (The tailgate has 915 over AFPP)


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## A.B (Feb 8, 2010)

I think the mix was to to weak, what size was the bottle you used and how much water did you use?


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## redspudder (Nov 15, 2009)

I didnt get along with it either although im going to give it another go tomorrow.From what i gather the inch in 1litre of water is to weak a mixture,but i have to say that is the instructions on the side of the bottle so the instructions are very missleading.I use exactly the same process and ratios with hyper wash and got better results,but like i say ill give it another chance tomorrow.


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

david g said:


> Here at Chemical guys UK we've been working hard on new products for you all, and this is one of them right here.
> 
> a brand new snow foam, with more cleaning power than you can shake a stick at!
> 
> ...


Seems to be differant opinions on this


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## hag (Apr 8, 2010)

alexandjen said:


> So did you just rinse with the foam lance attachment (less the bottle) or did you change to the Nilfisk lance?


 I just took off the bottle and rinsed with the AD lance. I read this on a previous post as this was suggested as a good way to rinse out the lance at the same time. Would the Nilfisk lance helped to cut through the foam more effictively.

Please excuse me ignorance.


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## alexandjen (Feb 24, 2008)

hag said:


> I just took off the bottle and rinsed with the AD lance. I read this on a previous post as this was suggested as a good way to rinse out the lance at the same time. Would the Nilfisk lance helped to cut through the foam more effictively.
> 
> Please excuse me ignorance.


Yes, more pressure would have blasted the dirt off - it is good practice to flush the lance through to avoid blockages though :thumb:


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## hag (Apr 8, 2010)

A.B said:


> I think the mix was to to weak, what size was the bottle you used and how much water did you use?


 I used the 1lt bottle supplied with the HD lance. I topped the 1" of foam to neck of the bottle with warm tap water which is hard London water.


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## Razzzle (Jul 3, 2010)

If you used 1" of product, roughly 150ml and 850ml of water, your product is wayyyyy to weak to do anything IMO.

check out the snowfoam thread where I used it neat, 1:1 and 200ml product to 300ml water and got decent results.

Daz.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2011)

Razzzle said:


> If you used 1" of product, roughly 150ml and 850ml of water, your product is wayyyyy to weak to do anything IMO.
> 
> check out the snowfoam thread where I used it neat, 1:1 and 200ml product to 300ml water and got decent results.
> 
> Daz.


It depends on the dilution rate of your foam lance.

I used 200ml product and 400ml water, i.e. a 2:1 bottle dilution. My lance was set to around a 10:1 dilution rate. It can go as low as 5:1. So 200ml product and 800ml water (4:1 bottle dilution) would have given the same results at the 5:1 lance dilution setting.
Both those configurations would give about a 3% (33:1) overall dilution on the car, which is bang in the middle of the recommended working range.

I think this really highlights how important it is to workout the dilution rate of your lance. If the final foam mix that ends up on the bodywork is too weak, it won't work. Too strong and you are wasting product and possibly risking LSP degredation.


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

hag said:


> I just took off the bottle and rinsed with the AD lance. I read this on a previous post as this was suggested as a good way to rinse out the lance at the same time. Would the Nilfisk lance helped to cut through the foam more effictively.
> 
> Please excuse me ignorance.


The Nilfisk lance would have helped a lot lot more - and considering it's all in the rinse (imo), this is where your problem is.


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## hag (Apr 8, 2010)

I really appreciate everyones' advice. Phisp's post about the dilution setting on the lance. How do I set this on the ab hd lance? It only has a dial with +/- and no figure for water/foam ratio measurement.


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## Razzzle (Jul 3, 2010)

Phisp said:


> It depends on the dilution rate of your foam lance.
> 
> I used 200ml product and 400ml water, i.e. a 2:1 bottle dilution. My lance was set to around a 10:1 dilution rate. It can go as low as 5:1. So 200ml product and 800ml water (4:1 bottle dilution) would have given the same results at the 5:1 lance dilution setting.
> Both those configurations would give about a 3% (33:1) overall dilution on the car, which is bang in the middle of the recommended working range.
> ...


So you set it to the correct dilution rate on your lance, then the water from the PW whatever flow rate it is, dilutes it even more :thumb:


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## jamie_s (Jul 10, 2009)

I don't know if this has already been mentioned but if you just rinse the foam off it won't remove the dirt, u need to properly jet wash it off with the pressure lance quite close to the paint


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I find a lot comes down to your PW and your PW lance technique,the more water flow from your PW and melodically lancing means better cleaning in my experience.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Right. Let Me explain a little more clearly what I do. This procedure has allways been the same. So only the actual foam product has varied..
The mix is 2 1/2 inches of foam in the standard lance bottle (I put a mark on the bottle to keep this the same) A squirt of shampoo. And topped of with hot water to help it mix through..
I do not pre rinse the car . I read a long time ago that pre rinsing doesent let the foam stick as well as it slides off the wet surface..

Typicaly in the winter months I will foam then Power wash off then repeat the process.
My Machine is a Kranzle K1150T. set about half pressure.

Sadly for Me the CG product was hopeless. I am in no way having a go at the distributors in the UK. But the products do seem to vary from batch to batch. I had a new US gallon of CG citrus wash and gloss and its like water in its consistancy to the previous gallon (I still had some left to compare) And this new gallon was nowhere near the quality and performance of the old one .This is dissapointing on what is after all a fairly expensive product...
So perhaps the foam varies as well ????


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

ChuckH said:


> Right. Let Me explain a little more clearly what I do. This procedure has allways been the same. So only the actual foam product has varied..
> The mix is 2 1/2 inches of foam in the standard lance bottle* (I put a mark on the bottle to keep this the same) *A squirt of shampoo. And topped of with hot water to help it mix through..
> I do not pre rinse the car . I read a long time ago that pre rinsing doesent let the foam stick as well as it slides off the wet surface..
> 
> ...


This is a shame as I was really pleased with my sample, it is concerning that you say the batch samples can vary so much,
Your Kranzle is going to be the same as the difference between night and day compared to the budget machines so many users seem to go for after the vote, I think a lot could do well by just holding out a little longer and adding to their budget.
My lance bottle has measuring markers on the side, is this not the case with all of the bottle then?
a litre of product mix is much too much for just 1 car and should comfortably do 2 or 3 cars, so to me the product mix is too weak for the soiling on the car, no need to use more product, just less water :thumb:


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

ChuckH said:


> Right. Let Me explain a little more clearly what I do. This procedure has allways been the same. So only the actual foam product has varied..
> The mix is 2 1/2 inches of foam in the standard lance bottle (I put a mark on the bottle to keep this the same) A squirt of shampoo. And topped of with hot water to help it mix through..
> I do not pre rinse the car . I read a long time ago that pre rinsing doesent let the foam stick as well as it slides off the wet surface..
> 
> ...


Im sorry your dissapointed in the Citrus Wash n Gloss that you got 2nd time around ,you should have told me and we would be more than happy to send a replacement for you
Im told by CG US that the product can seperate in air freight transportation due to the temprature in the cargo hold ,all you need to do is give it a good shake and it will return to normal ,it in no way hinders the perfomance of the product at all im told

In terms of the new snow foam we have been researching the market for quite some time to come up with a near no touch wash as possible,the reults i have had have been excellent to say the least ,there has been very positive feedback from most with a few not getting the same or desired results from it 
I can only put that down to carying diofferences in the pressure washer or foam lances that are being used as some have a greater water output thus weakening the dillution ratio
Im not sure Chuck if you have had the new foam but drop me a pm and i will send a sample out for you 
Hope that helps


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## Parlivus (Apr 17, 2010)

david g said:


> In terms of the new snow foam we have been researching the market for quite some time to come up with a near no touch wash as possible,the reults i have had have been excellent to say the least ,there has been very positive feedback from most with a few not getting the same or desired results from it
> I can only put that down to carying diofferences in the pressure washer or foam lances that are being used as some have a greater water output thus weakening the dillution ratio
> Im not sure Chuck if you have had the new foam but drop me a pm and i will send a sample out for you
> Hope that helps


Got to agree, I tried this on Tuesday and it worked well, I'd say its comparable in performance to Magifoam having now tried both. Wasn't 100% touchless but was as close as a foam will get it. Didn't strip the sealant from my car either.

1 1/2 inch foam rest water in the standard 1 litre bottle via a AB HD lance, C110 Nilfisk pressure washer used.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Avanti said:


> This is a shame as I was really pleased with my sample, it is concerning that you say the batch samples can vary so much,
> Your Kranzle is going to be the same as the difference between night and day compared to the budget machines so many users seem to go for after the vote, I think a lot could do well by just holding out a little longer and adding to their budget.
> My lance bottle has measuring markers on the side, is this not the case with all of the bottle then?
> a litre of product mix is much too much for just 1 car and should comfortably do 2 or 3 cars, so to me the product mix is too weak for the soiling on the car, no need to use more product, just less water :thumb:


Firstly Yes of course the bottle has marks on the side. But its easyer to see a red indelible ink mark than the allmost invisible marks allready there when doing the pouring in of the foam..
I have pointed out that the pressure on the kranzle is only set at half way. I further pointed out that the comparison of products were all within the same enviroment with the same quantities.
IE one products performance in comparison with anothers with the dilution rates the same and the machine being set at the same pressure
This is just My opinion on the products which if I remember was the OPs question ?


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

ChuckH said:


> Firstly Yes of course the bottle has marks on the side. But its easyer to see a red indelible ink mark than the allmost invisible marks allready there when doing the pouring in of the foam..
> *Not bieng funny but was there a point to that question or are You as usual just trying to be clever ??*
> I have pointed out that the pressure on the kranzle is only set at half way. I further pointed out that the comparison of products were all within the same enviroment with the same quantities.
> IE one products performance in comparison with anothers with the dilution rates the same and the machine being set at the same pressure
> This is just My opinion on the products which if I remember was the OPs question ?


Was not trying to clever or funny, I was backing up your findings, so a bit confused on the slight attack 
remember I only have just taken charge of a HD lance this week, I noticed there are measurment marks on the bottle, maybe some lance bottles vary in diameter, so for example an inch in a bucket is going to be a greater quantity than in a cup.
As some of us have had success with the products, how we achieved can only be of good help to those that are not getting the success they hoped for, rest assured if it did not work I would have been one of the 1st to say so 
I agree on your method of marking the bottle for consistency and comparison, I pre measure in a jug , but as long as the users find a method that works it can only be good :thumb:


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## JJ_ (Oct 26, 2005)

Not sure whats wrong with the technique here, I have done four cars with no touch and it is as near dammit without using a tfr. 

Best non tfr product avail.


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2011)

hag said:


> I really appreciate everyones' advice. Phisp's post about the dilution setting on the lance. How do I set this on the ab hd lance? It only has a dial with +/- and no figure for water/foam ratio measurement.


I'll post up a description later, when I get home from work. Essentially, you just need a bucket and a measuring jug. It is a little laborious but, imho, worth taking the time to do.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

david g said:


> Im sorry your dissapointed in the Citrus Wash n Gloss that you got 2nd time around ,you should have told me and we would be more than happy to send a replacement for you
> Im told by CG US that the product can seperate in air freight transportation due to the temprature in the cargo hold ,all you need to do is give it a good shake and it will return to normal ,it in no way hinders the perfomance of the product at all im told
> 
> In terms of the new snow foam we have been researching the market for quite some time to come up with a near no touch wash as possible,the reults i have had have been excellent to say the least ,there has been very positive feedback from most with a few not getting the same or desired results from it
> ...


David Thank You for the kind offer of the sample but I am now using an alternative that I am happy with so no need.
Your offer is appreciated though and shows You customer care. Thank You.

Mate yes I do realise that the Citrus awsh and gloss seperates and does need one heck of a shake to mix it thoughroly. I am still able to use the product but the consistancy is extremely watery in comparison to the previous gallon and a couple of the small bottles that I still have in the kit. Therfore it means using a lot more which is not a major problem and is why i didnt complain to You about it..

Please dont think I was complaining about You as the retailer I thought I had pointed out that I had no complaints with the distributor....

I think for opinions to be so diverse maybe there is or has been a batch difference ??


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

ChuckH said:


> David Thank You for the kind offer of the sample but I am now using an alternative that I am happy with so no need.
> Your offer is appreciated though and shows You customer care. Thank You.
> 
> Mate yes I do realise that the Citrus awsh and gloss seperates and does need one heck of a shake to mix it thoughroly. I am still able to use the product but the consistancy is extremely watery in comparison to the previous gallon and a couple of the small bottles that I still have in the kit. Therfore it means using a lot more which is not a major problem and is why i didnt complain to You about it..
> ...


No problem at all 
The seperation issue should not make you need to use more product im told by the states ,just use it the same way

In terms of the snow foam ,there is no batch difference as its all been from the same batch we have had

Thanks


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## Razzzle (Jul 3, 2010)

Phisp said:


> I'll post up a description later, when I get home from work. Essentially, you just need a bucket and a measuring jug. It is a little laborious but, imho, worth taking the time to do.


Like:http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=71201&highlight=snow+foam ???

Daz.


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