# Gas Central Heating Recommendations



## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Hi folks, I'm sticking in a whole new system from scratch. Looking to use Hive or Nest.

Any boiler recommendations to go with or avoid?

Also, anyone use underfloor heating? I've been debating this for the bathrooms, and the wet vs dry debate.


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## dholdi (Oct 1, 2008)

When we built our extension I fitted wet underfloor.
We have dry in the bathroom.
Boiler is an Ideal Vogue.


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

dholdi said:


> When we built our extension I fitted wet underfloor.
> We have dry in the bathroom.
> Boiler is an Ideal Vogue.


Which of the underfloor systems would you recommend? It's a complete refurb of the property top to bottom.


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## dholdi (Oct 1, 2008)

They both have their advantages.
A wet system is difficult to retrofit to wooden floors although there are systems available.
Ideally it needs to be installed in the floor slab and its this mass that retains and emits the heat.
We went for dry in the bathroom as we didn't want a step into the room and its low profile allows it to be buried in the tile screed.
The disadvantage of that is that the mass to retain the heat isn't there so it cools down quickly ( its nice when you get out of the shower tho  )


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

We have Hive and a Vailent Boiler - think Worchester bosch are good 

I would suggest wet underfloor heating as it will cost less to run -


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## shl-kelso (Dec 27, 2012)

Another wet UFH user here - I had it installed as part of my self build over 10 years ago, both upstairs and downstairs, and fully zone controlled with Honeywell Evo smart heating controls. As it was a new build I had a concrete beam/block floor upstairs so could have full concrete screed here too. 

If you have timber floors then you need to decide how much height buildup you are happy with to take the pipes and covering. I’ve had good results using a system that uses cement boards as the sub-floor covering over the pipes as a kind of dry screws - adds a decent amount of thermal mass to even out the floor temperature and room response. 

You also need to factor in that as a retro-fit you will also most likely need higher water temperature in your UFH circuits to maintain comfort levels (and occasionally an additional source of boost heating if your property is old with low levels of insulation). 

If you are using a lot of stone and tile flooring then UFH will be great. If you want wood flooring then engineered timber is sensible but do keep a check on surface temperatures to avoid damaging the floor. If you want lots of carpet then I’d be considering other heat sources - UFH will work with carpet but the heating response times can be much longer as you’ve covered the floor in covering of insulation. You would also need to keep the total underlay and carpet tog levels below those recommended by the UFH designer/supplier. 

Electric underfloor will work, but for while house use will need quite a bit of power. It normally has minimal thermal mass so can warm up quickly but also cools down quickly too. You need to plan the wiring carefully and also need to fit floor sensors in every room as you have to limit the temperature to prevent damage to the heating elements and flooring from overheating.

I use electric underfloor heating in rooms above my detached garage. I chose a thin carbon film sheet rather than thicker cabling on a mesh mat. This has an insulation mat over the timber sub-floor, followed by the heating mat, and covered with a damp-proof membrane (as limited protection from the final floor covering) and topped with engineered oak flooring. Again it is controlled by a Honeywell Evo smart system so to minimise energy use and allow easy remote control from the house. For the floor sensor I had to cut a channel in the sun floor for the cable and sensor to sit flush with the surface of the sub floor.


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## tomo bpb (Sep 7, 2012)

Spoony do you have a installer yet to give you your options


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

tomo bpb said:


> Spoony do you have a installer yet to give you your options


Not yet, I'm just forward planning. I usually do a lot myself, I'll have a better look when I know what I want.


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

shl-kelso said:


> Another wet UFH user here - I had it installed as part of my self build over 10 years ago, both upstairs and downstairs, and fully zone controlled with Honeywell Evo smart heating controls. As it was a new build I had a concrete beam/block floor upstairs so could have full concrete screed here too.
> 
> If you have timber floors then you need to decide how much height buildup you are happy with to take the pipes and covering. I've had good results using a system that uses cement boards as the sub-floor covering over the pipes as a kind of dry screws - adds a decent amount of thermal mass to even out the floor temperature and room response.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detailed reply.

I'm considering a standard radiator set up for every room other than the new kitchen/diner and the bathrooms. Sounds like upstairs the electric option would be best and for downstairs the wet option would be great?

How do you find the heat? Silly question maybe!


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## shl-kelso (Dec 27, 2012)

Spoony said:


> Thanks for the detailed reply.
> 
> I'm considering a standard radiator set up for every room other than the new kitchen/diner and the bathrooms. Sounds like upstairs the electric option would be best and for downstairs the wet option would be great?
> 
> How do you find the heat? Silly question maybe!


Having lived with UFH for more than 10 years I'd not want to go back to radiators anytime soon! It's a nice,gentle heat, and having warm floors in cold weather is just fantastic.

In my case the house is well insulated, so my water temperatures to the wet system are quite low - I have a ground source heat pump that supplies water in the mid to high 30s direct to the manifolds (so no need to use temperature blending/mixing valves in my case). I've also been in houses where they run the floors at much higher temperatures and I can find that uncomfortable to stand on for long periods as my feet get too hot.

With the electric system I keep the top surface of my floor at around 28 degrees when it is on, so again this feels very pleasant too.

In energy terms my heat pump uses a 2.5kW compressor to provide around 12kW thermal output for my 200m2 house. My garage rooms use 2.5kw of heating mats for a around 30m2 of floor area.


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## tomo bpb (Sep 7, 2012)

Spoony said:


> Not yet, I'm just forward planning. I usually do a lot myself, I'll have a better look when I know what I want.


no problem, i work in the the merchants if your needing a decent installer if not doing it yourself i could recommend someone.


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## P4ULT (Apr 6, 2007)

Boiler wise, I fit Worcester-Bosch a chap in work with regularly fits Vaillant both have there plus points and between us we dicided a hybrid of both would be best. In my opinion Worcester have a better aftesales but Vaillant are catching up.

With Nest beware of the fact it is a learning stat and works out the best way to heat your home sometimes this brings it on for long periods of time to reach target temp in the most economic way. Some of my customers have found this annoying after a while.

Check out Wundatrade for wet underfloor, prices are great and the quality is as good as any other I have use. 

I don’t know much about electric underfloor apart from the fact it can be expensive to run.


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

tomo bpb said:


> no problem, i work in the the merchants if your needing a decent installer if not doing it yourself i could recommend someone.


Thanks, night give you a shout. Going to need to buy the bits etc.



P4ULT said:


> Boiler wise, I fit Worcester-Bosch a chap in work with regularly fits Vaillant both have there plus points and between us we dicided a hybrid of both would be best. In my opinion Worcester have a better aftesales but Vaillant are catching up.
> 
> With Nest beware of the fact it is a learning stat and works out the best way to heat your home sometimes this brings it on for long periods of time to reach target temp in the most economic way. Some of my customers have found this annoying after a while.
> 
> ...


Thanks, still planning it all out. The Worcester seems a good option.


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## RedUntilDead (Feb 10, 2009)

Check that the boiler you decide on is compatible with your chosen smart controller though. Otherwise it will just be a fancy looking and expensive on off switch. The purpose of these controls is to modulate the boiler so if it can’t communicate what’s the point?

Modern Valiant boilers use their own protocol and are not compatible with nest or hive so will not function as intended. Here you would be better using valiants own smart controller :thumb:

Ask the boiler manufacturer and NOT the installer no matter how many he says he has fitted with no issues.


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## Ducky (Mar 19, 2007)

I recently redid the heating system in my house (mid-renovation) and went for a Vaillant setup, the engineer said they were easier to work on than the Worcester ones (ex Worcester installer). We used all Vaillant parts, water tank, boiler and controllers so they work together nicely, and you have the smart app along with wireless radiator stats, so you can control rooms individually.

We looked at underfloor upstairs but every UFH installer we spoke to said stick to radiators, and just keep underfloor for downstairs.


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