# Wetsanding Metallic Touch Up



## mark328 (Aug 1, 2010)

Guys, had a chip on wing, so touched up using my 100ml Paints4u paint ( lacquer mixed in ).

Looked great when applied, but now ive wetsanded and polish up it looks a different shade!!!

Is this the downside to wetsanding touch ups where they are metallic or is it the paint ? ( as said look great when applied )

Also when i pour water over the area, it looks perfect match, maybe insufficient lacquer in the pre-mix tin?

I have got 30ml clear lacquer from Paints4U and WAS going to apply this over it and wetsand that, but is it going to make a difference?

Thanks guys.


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

If water makes it look ok it might be worth your while trying to go over it with just a clear.
And yes, generally if you flat a metallic you will change the perceived shade as you're flatting the metallic particles and then they can't reflect in the way they should.


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

Interesting thread.....I think I'll watch this one closely now that I've got metallic paint - I was also looking into buying one of those 100ml pre-mixed tins too :thumb:


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## david_h (Sep 19, 2006)

I did the same as you with a largish piece of lacquer peel on the front of my bonnet.

I've now tried paints4u touch up and an original BMW can of touch up and neither of them match the original paint at all. I can't decide whether it's just because Estoril Blue is a real pain to match, or whether it's because metallic pint can't be used to touch up in this manner, needs to be sprayed on with airbrush?


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

Touching in metallics invisibly (particularly lighter shades) is, unfortunately, almost impossible.
Sprayed paint results in a thin layer allowing the metallics to 'sit' properly and reflect.
Touching in results in a thick layer that the metallics 'sink' into, they don't reflect as they should often resulting in darker and/or duller appearance.


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## mark328 (Aug 1, 2010)

squiggs said:


> Touching in metallics invisibly (particularly lighter shades) is, unfortunately, almost impossible.
> Sprayed paint results in a thin layer allowing the metallics to 'sit' properly and reflect.
> Touching in results in a thick layer that the metallics 'sink' into, they don't reflect as they should often resulting in darker and/or duller appearance.


Exactly as you describe Squiggs!!! Thanks for explaining!! :thumb:


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## david_h (Sep 19, 2006)

squiggs said:


> Touching in metallics invisibly (particularly lighter shades) is, unfortunately, almost impossible.
> Sprayed paint results in a thin layer allowing the metallics to 'sit' properly and reflect.
> Touching in results in a thick layer that the metallics 'sink' into, they don't reflect as they should often resulting in darker and/or duller appearance.


This is exactly the problem I have, thanks for clarifying.


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

squiggs said:


> Touching in metallics invisibly (particularly lighter shades) is, unfortunately, almost impossible.
> Sprayed paint results in a thin layer allowing the metallics to 'sit' properly and reflect.
> Touching in results in a thick layer that the metallics 'sink' into, they don't reflect as they should often resulting in darker and/or duller appearance.


Just to throw a spanner in there....and it's just a plastic spanner, as I'm not doubting anything you've put....

....but, if the metallic touch-in paint (which has the lacquer pre-mixed) was applied thinly, and built up over time, rather than the usual 'blob-it-in' attempts we carry out, would this possibly make the difference?

Don't get me wrong, what you've already said DOES make total sense, I'm just one of those who likes to believe that nothing's impossible, within the Detailing World


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

As someone who sprays paint and then lacquers it and having never used paint mixed into lacquer and applied it by hand my honest answer is - I don't know.
And if there is a good way of touching in metallics then it's a well kept secret. 

How I understand it is ....
There isn't anyway you can 'hand apply' metallics thinly enough without the metallics sinking. 
Sinking isn't literally sinking - it's more that the metallics can't align properly in what is a relatively large amount of liquid. They float and then lay flat causing reduced reflection - rather than the way they can sit, set and reflect in a thinly sprayed film.
To explain further, as a kid have you ever done that thing with iron filings on a piece of paper with a magnet underneath? 
No magnet = flat filings. 
With a magnet = pointy filings. 
What a metallic needs is pointy filings ... but if the liquid is too thick they go to flat filings.

So I imagine if a metallic/lacquer combo were hand applied not only would the metallics still be able to lay flat (sink) but if you then tried to flat/polish it back you would be flatting back some of the metallics that were already flat (sunk) but close to surface ... and that would cause even more of the already reduced reflection to be rubbed out ... and then everything would end up even duller.

Well that's how I see it .... but I'm ready to be shot down :thumb:


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

Thanks for giving me an 'understandable' explanation squiggs.....that makes TOTAL sense to me now  :thumb:

Can I ask you one more, as I'm finding this really 'educating' (for me anyway)....I only notice the 'flat/darker' appearance when I'm parked in the shade, ie. under the car-port. When I reversed out this morning to clean the car, the touch-ins were/seemed a pretty good match.

My guess is that as some light was able to bounce of the metallic 'filings' in the paint touch-ins, when out in the sunlight, the eye picked up those elements and made it more 'acceptable'. Would I be making sense, and possibly correct in my thoughts?

Thanks in advance....Krim, the student :thumb:


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

Getting a bit beyond the realms of my explanation capabilities here .... (if I was that good I'd be a training or teaching:lol .... I'll give it shot though. 

Basically a car sprayed at source will have all the metallics sprayed in one go so they all align (point/stand) the way they should and all absorb and reflect light correctly.
To do chip, a spot repair or even a bigger job .. lets say .. to repair a door blowing into the wings and quarter panels - you run the risk (to different degrees) of the metallics not being aligned to the original paint.

Even on the most obvious touch up it could be the case that a combination of the angle of the incoming light and the angle that your viewing the reflected light from make the repair appear invisible. 
However this could also work the other way round where even a good spray job/blow in might show up as blindingly obvious when viewed from a certain angle with light hitting it from a certain angle.
Obviously these are extreme scenarios, but its the best way I can explain.

Then once you add in that when applied by hand metallics will 'sink' the chances of doing an invisible silver (or any light coloured high metallic) touch in are virtually nil


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

Thanks again for your reply squiggs - believe it or not, it does make sense 

I'll leave you alone now - thanks for educating me though (you've proved it is possible) :thumb:


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