# R222 Carnauba Wax vs Bilt Hamber DS



## Dizeee (Jun 10, 2020)

Hello all

I am about to change to a better wax than my Turtle Wax Carnauba. I use product by hand only but spend A LOT of time cleaning, polishing, waxing and QD ing. 

The current methods I use are OK but I am looking at putting my time to better use and after plenty of research had settled on Bilt Hamber Double Speed. Someone else mentioned R222 as an alternative - would you agree or stick to BH?

Also, once cleaned dried and waxed, is there a simple and easy to apply gloss or sealant I can put over the top of it - again by hand so wipe on wipe off?


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

Both nice waxes. This time of year id go with the bilt hamber as its more durable. You could just top it up with your meguiars ceramic detailer as and when you need too

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## RS3 (Mar 5, 2018)

I put Double Speed on my wifes Kodiaq just before a 3000 mile euro trip and it performed admirably. It was very hydrophobic initially if I remember correctly but I did notice it was pretty much dead after the above journey and used spray toppers to keep it going until the winter detail in October. R222 eludes me tbh but a wax I prefer to BH DS is AG UHD wax as it gives a warmer glow on the black paint - not as hydrophobic but probably more durable and looks nicer IMO.


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## 66Rob (Sep 25, 2007)

BH DSW and R222 (P21S) are very different waxes in my opinion.

I really liked R222, super easy to apply and remove, great water behaviour and really glossy. I use it in the summer especially for car shows. Only downside is that it doesn't last that long (although being so easy to apply may not be a problem).

BH DSW, has much greater durability and even better water behaviour but I have never really got on with it (and I know some others feel the same). 

It is easy enough to apply and remove but I found when I have used on dark cars that I had to return to the car again and again to give it another buff after a few hours due to a 'ghosting' effect on the paint - even with minimal product used.

This is a pain as if the car is outside it requires another wash/rinse first. This isn't noticeable on silver cars, as I used on my neighbours Micra and it looked superb.

For durability this time of year and if you fancy a wax my preference is for Autoglym UHD or Collinite 476s but everyone has their own favourites. 

Although for speed in this weather a spray sealant or or wax is a lot easier, and there are less issues due to damp air preventing waxes curing.

Rob


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## TonyHill (Jul 28, 2015)

I was tempted with BH DSW but I've read too many negative reviews, such as you've mentioned, and also that it appears to dull some finishes, and makes the car a dust magnet!


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## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

I e used BH DSW and had mixed results with it, was a nice wax and performed well, but no matter what I tried, just couldn’t get along with it, just didn’t gel with me...

AG UHD wax is very nice to use, as long as you apply it thin, it’s easy to remove, gives a lovely finish. 

A couple of other options to throw in the mix, DetailedOnline Surreal wax - an absolute breeze to use, so easy to apply and remove, gives a lovely finish and lasts well. Another I recently purchased was Megauiars hybrid ceramic liquid wax, a doddle to use, especially this time of the year... I’ve put a couple of reviews up of these.


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## Woodsmoke (Feb 12, 2018)

yeah have used DSW got an easy 5-6 months from it with good application, and about 7k motorway miles..

but on dark colors it ghost like hell for the first couple of weeks and is a pain, its not that glossy either IMO


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## nbray67 (Mar 22, 2012)

R222 as mentioned above, is an easy to use glossy wax that's more of a show wax/summer wax. Longevity is not it's selling point. Beaut wax non the less.

BH DS never used but others have liked it even though it can be a bit tricky at times. For that reason alone, despite it's price point, I've never given it a go.

Current fave for me is the Megs Hybrid Ceramic liquid wax, easy on, easy off and looks beaut with great beading/water behaviour and longevity, imo anyway.


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## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

R222. Great wax. Sounds better if nothing else.


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## Dizeee (Jun 10, 2020)

Really interesting replies... I had been looking at UHD wax but heard mixed reviews. These are the first times I have heard of DS wax not being liked by some.

I will therefore get some AG UHD. Mine is mineral grey on a BMW. R222 maybe good for treats on the odd summer weekend.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

I guess some people can’t use waxes.

Bilt Hamber have another durable wax that is more carnauba based which might be more to your liking called Finis Wax. Saying that, UHD Wax is very good too.


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## matty538 (May 13, 2011)

I have a mineral grey 1 series and think colinite 915 is a great wax. Gives a glossy finish which lasts about 5 months and the water behaviour is great if you prefer beading to sheeting.
I've had ghosting before, but if you spread the wax very thin this doesn't seem to be an issue and as long as you apply thinly and remove as per the instructions it's a real easy wax to use.

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## Carlos Fandango (Dec 24, 2016)

As I believe Turtle Wax Carnauba is a cleaner wax it might be best to use a Carnauba wax to go over the top. Farecla G3 Super Paste Wax is very easy use and gives a great finish. Another one that's pretty easy to use and worth a shout is Harly wax.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

As others have said, R222 is more of a show wax. Quite oily and easy to apply. Great to use in the summer. I also have BH DSW and it's not overly special in application etc, but has longer durability and better beading. It's more like a Fusso type wax that I'd be more likely to use in winter.

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## Dizeee (Jun 10, 2020)

Cheers.

As a wildcard, if I was to use something like Swissvax Mirage - would it be the same application method and would I see any benefit from the others? The marketing and pricing tells me so, but what is the reality?


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

Dizeee said:


> Cheers.
> 
> As a wildcard, if I was to use something like Swissvax Mirage - would it be the same application method and would I see any benefit from the others? The marketing and pricing tells me so, but what is the reality?


I have mirage, its a nice wax but a little grainy, its nicer to apply in warmer weather so it melts onto the paint. It seems to clog the applicator in colder weather. I think its actually much nicer to apply with bare hands
Its glossy and pretty hydrophobic but not really worth the money for me, onyx is a better swissvax option as its similar but cheaper

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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

If you’re coming from the Turtlewax product DSW is a very good product to get for several reasons. 

One reasons in particular is that whilst it isn’t the easiest wax to apply, it certainly isn’t the hardest. If you went straight to the easiest wax to apply you aren’t learning anything. You see it all too often; people seeking advice regarding why they are having issues with certain waxes, but have no real experience with waxes and haven’t gone through any trial and error.

If you get a very easy to apply wax, you’ll always be worried about getting waxes with a reputation for potentially difficult application. If you are comfortable with any wax, then any wax isn’t an issue.

DSW is probably THE benchmark wax. It gives you great experience in applying wax, you have to learn how to apply it properly and it rewards you when you do. The skills that you learn with it apply to ALL paste waxes. Many also will give you the blooming/hazing on dark cars as it gasses out, so you will learn how to deal with that.

It’s also a brilliant price and superb value plus is in the top tier of durability. It beats all the Collinite’s, FK1000P and what came before it, with only things like Fusso beating it. 
Despite what has been said, if you look at gloss meter readings, it provides good gloss and provides a reflective finish, consistent with its polymer base and looks great on light colours. It doesn’t dull a finish, but it doesn’t provide a particularly warm glow.

So for all round ability, it is right in the sweet spot and that’s why I think it’s the benchmark.


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## Dizeee (Jun 10, 2020)

Well that may have bought me right back round then, thanks.

Surely it is as simple as don't use too much, make sure it is an even application ( dotted ) then massage in a circular motion. Leave to cure for 30 mins, then buff off with a seperate cloth. Go over with a fresh cloth again at the end for the extra shine. Avoid sunlight or anything beneath 10 degrees and its a win - no?


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## Dizeee (Jun 10, 2020)

Now bought some DSW and looking forward to giving it a go with my new Glart cloths. I have never experienced hazing before, hopefully my method above will pay off.


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

I have always found dsw very easy to use, you shouldn't get hazing. Apply thin and leave for 5/10 mins then buff turning cloths often. Should be fine buddy, have fun 

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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Dizeee said:


> Well that may have bought me right back round then, thanks.
> 
> Surely it is as simple as don't use too much, make sure it is an even application ( dotted ) then massage in a circular motion. Leave to cure for 30 mins, then buff off with a seperate cloth. Go over with a fresh cloth again at the end for the extra shine. Avoid sunlight or anything beneath 10 degrees and its a win - no?


Use a damp applicator to get it to spread as thinly and far as possible. Curing time isn't a precise thing, but if you can do it indoors or with heat, it will be better otherwise I have found that many paste waxes don't bond so well in cold conditions. Otherwise the longer the better.


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## Dizeee (Jun 10, 2020)

Cool, well it arrived this morning. I will do the front of the car at some point and post some pics


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## Dizeee (Jun 10, 2020)

Spent some time on the car this week to prep it for the wax. It has a combo of Carnauba, Cermaic sealant and now I have also just SRP most of the bodywork by hand to try and fill some of the cracks etc.

Will be applying the wax this weekend...


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## Dizeee (Jun 10, 2020)

Just applied the layer of DSW, allowing to cure for 60 minutes as it is inside at work so dry and a decent temp.

I ensured the surfaces were all free and clear. Used the provide applicator and soaked it, then scrunched out all the water so it was damp only. Circular motions as I went over the whole car, and tried to spread it to an even covering.

Hope I have used the right amount....


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## Dizeee (Jun 10, 2020)

Buff off complete.

I have no idea whether or not my technique has been correct, but this is the result. I do feel pleased, it feels and looks nice, and I hope I have added some good protection to my paint.


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## Dizeee (Jun 10, 2020)

I am assuming by lack of "telling off" comments I did this correctly / as I was supposed to!


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## Woodsmoke (Feb 12, 2018)

People say straight lines, other say circles as long as its on and was an easy buff win! I tend to do 2 coats just to ensure coverage but looks great. 

Wait till it rains the hydrophobics on DSW are awesome


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

I’d say it looks pretty good!

How hard did you find buffing it off?


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## Dizeee (Jun 10, 2020)

Honestly?

Found this no different to the TW Carnauba I had been using. I have very smooth paint, feels like gloss as I am on top of it all the time. This I know is an issue, but I spent a lot of time adding product so like to think the damage I do is hidden on the layers I always put on. I QD far too much and wax often.

I added it and it felt a little rough when I did the circles. But I had faith. The buff off as very easy, minimal effort. I buffed it a couple of times on each panel after folding the cloth. I will prob do another layer in a week or two when I next wash as to me you can never have enough protection. 

No issues with it in terms of applying, my instinct tells me next time I wash, dry and then QD with Megs ceramic, it may even look better.


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