# Crashed my lovely Series 4 Spider this morning



## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

I'm gutted

Crashed my Spider this morning less than 1/2 mile from home. Meant to be a run down the Cotswolds for chips at Bourton on the Water.

I'm totally ok as impact speed was low at sub 10mph.

My mate Leigh was in front of me in his MX5 and almost lost it on wide warm modern tyres.

I caught the half spin but ran out of road before parking her in the Armco.

Looks repairable (wing, wheel, nosecone & probably steering / suspension) & is well insured through the AROC / CKI scheme.

I'm just so gutted I could cry
































































Cheers,

Simon


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

was it icy?


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

Ouch - a wee classic too by the looks of it. 

Hope it's repairable, looks good in red too.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Poor little Alfa, I always thought you had the current shape spyder, I must admit to loving the original one. I prefer the early boat tail ones but any of the spyders are nice. Hope it gets fixed soon


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

Ouch , Gutted for you


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

It was one degree so very cold. The roundabout was damp & recently gritted. Just like driving on ball bearings on skinny rubber 

I'm used to the car but respect it. Drove it round Europe two May's in a row through all weathers & on mountain passes without issue.

I was cautions this morning as car & tyres cold at the start of the trip. Entered r/bout sub 30 mph (it's a 50 limit) & by the time I hit the barrier it was rolling speed (after hitting the kerb first).

Car was a star at the NEC Classic in November. Totally gutted


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## insanejim69 (Nov 13, 2011)

Ouch, glad you are ok. 

Poor car  .... as above, was it icy ? as I know temps did drop last night suddenly in certain areas. 

James


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

must have been hell of a slippery to loose the back end and slide sideways into a barrier sub 30mph.


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

CraigQQ said:


> must have been hell of a slippery to loose the back end and slide sideways into a barrier sub 30mph.


It was. Whilst waiting for recovery we saw loads of modern cars slipping all over the place. Someone's mentioned diesel but couldn't smell anything.

It was very slippery underfoot too.....


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## CTR De (Feb 10, 2011)

a sad sight indeed , hope it gets sorted


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## insanejim69 (Nov 13, 2011)

Squadrone Rosso said:


> It was. Whilst waiting for recovery we saw loads of modern cars slipping all over the place. Someone's mentioned diesel but couldn't smell anything.
> 
> It was very slippery underfoot too.....


What was the temps ?? Possible black ice can form even at 1 degrees.  ..... although if it was diesel, just pouring water over the area would show the rainbox diesel effect .

Again sorry about the car, really looked gorgeous 

James


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

It was 1 degree at 10am this morning


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## insanejim69 (Nov 13, 2011)

Ah def possibl;e black ice mate  .... gutted for you and your beautiful car  

People often claim about black ice, ....... "ah black ice aint nothing" ...... what a load of rubbish. It can be very very patchy, and easilly catch anyone out. without warning. Glad you are ok though. 

James


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

The car is on a specialist classic guaranteed value insurance policy. They were great today.

Got to make some calls first thing. What a pain!


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## insanejim69 (Nov 13, 2011)

This is when you know whether your insurance is a bunch of crooks, a damn good company 

James


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## marc147 (Nov 21, 2011)

Breaks my heart to see an alfa down  hope you can get it fixed and back on the road without to much bother 

Marc


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

insanejim69 said:


> This is when you know whether your insurance is a bunch of crooks, a damn good company
> 
> James


I had a non fault write off (Alfa 156 hit whist stopped) in 2007 & they were excellent:thumb:

Given the specialist nature of the car, they are happy to take it anywhere I want tomorrow as their repairers deal with modern stuff only.

The front wing is done but the door & door pillars are fine. The front alloy is done & the nosecone is creased. The headlight has popped but looks ok. The wing has moved over the bonnet but the bonnet looks fine.

Not sure about inner wings but possible bent steering / suspension.

All the suspension, steering, brakes etc etc were overhauled last year. New tyres too.

Driven this car on mountain passes on unplanned snow last May (coming out of Davos).

Just can't get it through my head that this happened.

I know most folk will say it's just a car but not to me it's not. I guess I'm preaching to the converted on here though so thanks for the sympathy:thumb:


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## VW STEVE. (Mar 18, 2012)

Very sad pics. Hope it's fixed soon.


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Shame buddy - Hopefully its all repairable


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

insanejim69 said:


> What was the temps ?? Possible black ice can form even at 1 degrees.


No it can't. Ice cannot form above 0°C


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## Black.MB (Aug 22, 2012)

Sad pics mate. But you should sort it out with no major problems.


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## Andy Bray (Apr 3, 2008)

Squadrone Rosso said:


> I had a non fault write off (Alfa 156 hit whist stopped) in 2007 & they were excellent:thumb:
> 
> Given the specialist nature of the car, they are happy to take it anywhere I want tomorrow as their repairers deal with modern stuff only.
> 
> ...


Well if you have experience of snow and driving around Davos (hope you did Stelvio pass) it makes me think what might have caused the car to react like it did.
Have the Police been involved at any point,maybe they are aware of this stretch of road.


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## JoeB (Jan 25, 2013)

If the ice formed prior to temp reaching 1 degree it may well still be there but unlikely if it had been gritted too. I've had some experience of diesel spillages and it doesn't take much to cause this sort of thing, the road layout is ideal for this too, as the vehicle leaking fuel takes the roundabout it could well deposit it on the outside edges of the road causing all vehicles coming on to spread it. You also wouldn't necessarily smell anything dependant on how much and how long ago it was spilt.
You may well be able to contact local police and/or highways to see if they had any spills reported.


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## BoostJunky86 (Oct 25, 2012)

No one seems to have mentioned it but I was always taught that Road surfaces can be much colder than outside temperature. 

I always work on an average of the road surface being approx 4 degrees below air temp. And this kind if situation really proves it. 


Hope the car is easily repairable for you buddy! And your prides not to damaged .


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## carfix (May 28, 2010)

SteveyG said:


> No it can't. Ice cannot form above 0°C


Whilst this would seem logical and reasonable, it could be misleading.

Black ice is a coating of very thin ice where the top is melting. You cant see it as it is translucent rather than the frosty appearance of which we are usually beware. 
Whilst the air temp may be well above freezing, the ground temp takes longer to rise, leading to a layer of ice that is still kept frozen by the ground, but the surface is being melted by the warmer air.
To all intents it may seem a warm day, but ice can still be laying in wait in colder ground areas for hours after the sun has warmed the air up.

The sensors on your car that tell you when its freezing etc are misleading for this as they are air temperature sensors. They are not too accurate anyway as there may be an element of wind chill involved which at least "fails to safety".

If you have driven in Europe you will have seen signs saying " Verglas" . This is not a general slippery surface warning as most people assume, it is specifically for areas where the conditions for Black ice regularly forms.

Heartbreaking to see a little boattail like this, hope its repaired sympathetically and you can forget its happened.

That tail treatment is much more appealing than the plastic kamm on the runout model.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

carfix said:


> Whilst the air temp may be well above freezing, the ground temp takes longer to rise, leading to a layer of ice that is still kept frozen by the ground, but the surface is being melted by the warmer air.


My point is still valid then 

And since most car readouts only have 1°C resolution and an unknown (to us) accuracy, no one with a brain would assume because their car said it was 1°C they could do powerslides round the roundabout. :thumb:


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Well, the car is on it's way to MGS Coachworks in Surrey. The insurance have been perfect thus far. I sincerely hope she's repairable so everything crossed until Wednesday.

I was planning on a full repaint at some point over the next few years so this has just expedited it. Every cloud etc.

Just lucky because the outcome could have been different if the impact had been on my door!


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## Natalie (Jan 19, 2011)

Oh no, saw it at the NEC and it was immaculate. Hope getting it back to its former self isn't too much hassle.

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Feel for you never good when this happens glad you are ok but sad for the classic hope you get someone to repair that will get it back how you like it , thin tyres grit yes to much know people have complained about not enough they throw it down


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Good news today

Sent all relevant pics through to my chosen repairer, MGS Coachworks in Purley, Surrey http://www.mgscoachworks.co.uk/ & had a good chat with Mike who runs the place.

Reckons it's repairable no probs & all parts except the wheel are available new or NOS from a variety of UK specialists.

I've been offered a wheel by another AROC Member if he can't get hold of one.

I need her back for Tuscany in May so fingers crossed it all goes smoothly.

Still utterly gutted I wounded my baby though

Cheers,

Simon


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

That is good news. Looking at all the crap on the road it's lucky no one came round on a bike. Looks slippery as hell.

Best of luck getting it back to its former glory. Your last pics had me googling for alfas again dammit 😊


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

Very sad to see a nice car get smashed up. Although sounds like it is not as bad as it perhaps looks..

I am going to ask though, what tyres?


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

xJay1337 said:


> I am going to ask though, what tyres?


The tyres are nearly new Firestone TZ300a's.


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

This was my car on the AROC stand at the NEC Classic in November, representing the last of the Giulia's (Alfa's last RWD car).





































I'm willing to throw some cash at what the insurance pay to get her fully re-painted.

I love her, simple as


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

not winter tyr............. better not start that one again 


Least its repairable fella, and its new crash barrier it chose to embed itself in with those funny new end caps... if it had been the older ramped down sunk into a lump of concrete it could have possibly done a shed load more damage...

Hopefully you will get it back looking brand new soon :thumb:


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## RichardM (Mar 1, 2009)

Sorry to read this Simon, I remember you getting her from Alfa Owner when I had my Spider LE. I've always loved the classic Spiders.


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## Ravinder (Jul 24, 2009)

Sorry to hear about the incident. Looks like a classic you got there. Don't rush the bodywork. If it's a decent bodyshop let them do the job correctly and keep a regular check of the progress being done. Make sure it is spot on. Things like this are best getting done 100% even if it may take a bit longer. Good luck.


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Thanks 

The closest I can get to my S4 at the mo


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## Ravinder (Jul 24, 2009)

What a transformation the top one is to the previous ones. Nowhere near as classy IMO.


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

The top one is a GT like my wife's.

My "modern" is a Brera


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## Kiashuma (May 4, 2011)

What a nightmare, hope all is fixed fast.

Was looking on ebay for something, thought this may help with you needing a new wheel?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alfa-Rome...7263642?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3cbfe17d1a


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Kiashuma said:


> What a nightmare, hope all is fixed fast.
> 
> Was looking on ebay for something, thought this may help with you needing a new wheel?
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alfa-Rome...7263642?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3cbfe17d1a


Repair is looking at £4.6k. Insurance need to inspect but she has a hefty guaranteed value on a classic policy so repair will be ok.

The car you linked was a fatal. I knew of the driver. Brings it all into perspective.

I think I've sourced a wheel off an AROC Member but thanks for thinking of me:thumb:


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## Kiashuma (May 4, 2011)

Squadrone Rosso said:


> Repair is looking at £4.6k. Insurance need to inspect but she has a hefty guaranteed value on a classic policy so repair will be ok.
> 
> The car you linked was a fatal. I knew of the driver. Brings it all into perspective.
> 
> I think I've sourced a wheel off an AROC Member but thanks for thinking of me:thumb:


Really sorry to hear you knew the driver of the car, as you say it brings it into perspective. If i had know it was a fatal accident i would not have posted a link, appologies for any upset.

Glad the repair is under way, it really is a lovely car you have there.

Take care.


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Kiashuma said:


> Really sorry to hear you knew the driver of the car, as you say it brings it into perspective. If i had know it was a fatal accident i would not have posted a link, appologies for any upset.
> 
> Glad the repair is under way, it really is a lovely car you have there.
> 
> Take care.


No worries mate. Knew of but not personally. Sad though.

That was a nice car but having anything off it would feel a bit like grave robbing.

Like most old cars, crash protection wasn't in the thinking. Whilst these Spiders lasted until the early 90's, they remained virtually unchanged from the 60's.

That's part of the appeal but also a definite downside.


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## Kiashuma (May 4, 2011)

Squadrone Rosso said:


> No worries mate. Knew of but not personally. Sad though.
> 
> That was a nice car but having anything off it would feel a bit like grave robbing.
> 
> ...


Indeed, it would'nt feel right using parts of that Spider.

Never seen one in the metal as it were only pictures.

Look forward to seeing it repaired soon :thumb:


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Some progress - the engineer is inspecting the car on Thursday. Fingers crossed!!!!


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## ShiningScotsman (Jun 20, 2012)

Feel for you mate...the calm frosty nights and the morning temperatures and dampness are a nightmare for these little cars...MX5 owner myself like your mate so I know how easy it is for the back end to wander on anything other than a sound a dry road surface.....on a lighter note maybe its the health fairy telling you not to go on a chip run lol.... on a more serious note beautiful wee car and well worth fixing....just focus on how good you will feel when she is good as new again!

Look on the bright side - could have been worse! Wishing you a speedy and kind on the wallet repair!


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Still nothing sorted. Specialist, trusted repairer says 80 hours work. 3rd party (Hoopers on behalf of Highway / LV) with no experience of Classics reckons 35 hours!

Chris Knott acting as gobetweens but not getting anywhere that I can see.

So frustrated with the insurance trade & still so angry with myself for getting into this position


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## RaceGlazer (Jan 10, 2007)

sorry to see that, must have been awful being in slow motion knowing what you were going to hit


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Some brilliant news  She's going to be repaired at MGS.

So so so so pleased I actually had a tear in my eye when I read the text


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## neilb62 (Jul 30, 2007)

Squadrone Rosso said:


> Some brilliant news  She's going to be repaired at MGS.
> 
> So so so so pleased I actually had a tear in my eye when I read the text


Phew... :thumb::thumb:


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Thanks. I had spinal surgery on Monday so I've been "down" all week but this was the best medicine I could have wished for


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Been working in London & Croydon so called in to Classic Alfa (quite some set up) for some bits for the full restore.

Bought new door handles, door handle gaskets, mirror to door gaskets, side Pininfarina badges & the rear Alfa Romeo script badge.

Then dropped into meet Mike at MGS followed by a visit to Dave at Traders of South Godstone to see my baby. Both top chaps who filled me full of confidence.

So, taking shape nicely at the first fix stage:-





































Dave does the metal work. Proper old school skills, no filler or anything. He's repaired the wheel arch liner & sourced the additional metal inner wing splash guard that was damaged.

Bent wishbone replaced too and replacement wheel arrived. Dave will also sort the wheel refurb at a place he knows, uses & trusts.

Once all the metal work is done, the car will go to Mike for a full two pack paint job. Again, proper timeless skills.

The car will be mint once finished. Given the money I'm throwing at her, I'm now wondering about the seat covers / bases too.....

This is a lifetime car.

So, feel a lot happier today


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

Good, going to look great when it is done and back on the road.

John THt.


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Titanium Htail said:


> Good, going to look great when it is done and back on the road.
> 
> John THt.


On top of the insurance repair, I'm throwing c£3k at the full repaint & exterior refurb:thumb:


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

she's coming on :thumb:


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Taking shape nicely - the colour match needs a bit of work though  :lol:


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

Taking its time isnt it? lol


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## ianrobbo1 (Feb 13, 2007)

AHH!!! the "trusty" ol brick,:doublesho amazing how many "top end" garages use em!!:lol::lol:


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## Bartl (Apr 3, 2013)

Don't go through the insurance, get it sorted your self


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Too late - going through the insurance as £4.6k. Being done at a Classic Alfa / Ferrari specialist, known for delivering concours winning results.

Metal work done, now for paint.

I'm paying extra to have the car fully re-painted, all five wheels restored & new chrome bits / badges.

ETA is August as car is third in the queue for work.


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## carrera2s (Jun 28, 2009)

Just read thread mate. Gutted for you, and understand your love affair:thumb:
Looks fantastic, can't wait to see her finished.
Enjoy

Paul


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

She's finished. Collect on Saturday 





































Saw her today. Very impressed & pleased with my investment.

Cheers,

Simon


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

Car looks absolutely perfect :thumb:


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## Bartl (Apr 3, 2013)

That looks superb.


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

:doublesho Gorgeous! :thumb:

Pleased your gonna get your baby back, probably better than before


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## Bill58 (Jul 5, 2010)

It looks stunning!


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Thanks all

Much better than before. My investment is around £3.7k!!

She's a lovely low mileage car & I love her a lot.

I just hope she's forgiven me for what I did on 24th February!


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## Buckweed (Aug 27, 2012)

Great a happy ending to the thread :thumb:


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## pogo6636 (Jan 18, 2009)

Thanks for showing the finished article. Looking just perfect to enjoy in this fine weather.


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## Captain Peanut (Apr 19, 2011)

Looks fantastic and perfect for the coming warm weekend


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Wish I could have collected today for Goodwood in the morning. Still, Brera V6 isn't too shabby a form of transport


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Nice one sorted at last did you make it to Stanford on sunday?


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

andy monty said:


> Nice one sorted at last did you make it to Stanford on sunday?
> 
> Auto Italia magazine's Summertime Classics, July 2013. - YouTube


I did. Our Brera & GT were there:thumb:


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## Kiashuma (May 4, 2011)

Looks great, glad to see the car back to health :thumb:


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## Kenny Powers (May 29, 2013)

She looks stunning SR.

Now, NO MORE DRIFTING OFF ROUNDABOUTS!!:lol:


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## slim_boy_fat (Jun 23, 2006)

Looks great but missing the wing badges/decals......

Are you going to replace them?


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

slim_boy_fat said:


> Looks great but missing the wing badges/decals......
> 
> Are you going to replace them?


Thanks. What they could get off are in the boot. Will add so Italian Flags to the lower front wings & a small one on the back but will leave it at that. Collecting tomorrow morning now


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

Back home on my drive 










Very hot drive home. Steering feels a bit floaty (alignment or tyre pressures) & the brakes need a good bleed.

Near side brake light stopped working on the way home too (Leigh was following in his MX) and the driver's side window decided half way down was enough as I pulled into my village.........

Some fettling required then but she looks a $1m 

Cheers,


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