# Sticky  Using recycled rainwater...



## Bigpikle

For well over 18 months I have been using rainwater as my sole source of car washing water. I have spoken with a few people about it over that time but recent requests made me think I should put up a little thread of my experiences...

*Why?*

My hose is on a water meter, and after my first year of detailing, with foams and multi bucket washes each week on 3 cars, I was scared to death by a water bill  At the same time I was also already collecting rainwater for all our gardening uses, and was increasingly surprised how clean it was  I also suffer from having a very sunny house with my driveway in full sun most of the day during summer. Coupled with uber hard water, it gave me a nightmare in summer with terrible water spotting 

*How?*

Initially I started to experiment using a watering can from my water butts for a final rinse. This worked well, so `i decided to try connecting my PW as well. One thing lead to another and I started to run out of water very quickly as soon as the rain stopped for any period of time. I decided to invest in a bigger tank 

What I have found is that connecting tanks in 'series' (all water draining into 1 tank, overflowing into the next etc) is the key to success. The first water butt in the 'daisychain' gets pretty dirty and collects 90% of the muck that washes down my roof. The 2nd tank has water that looks pretty clean, but under close inspection has very small amounts of particulate in it sometimes, and my 3rd tank is clear water with NO particle matter in it at all 

Initially I was paranoid and used extra fine paint filters to filter all water I took from the tank, but after a few months of using this I never once found anything in the filter, which was THE finest paint filter I could buy, so I gave up bothering any more....

So this is what my setup looks like:



















All water runs into the front water butt (next to the gate) and then flows through a water butt linking kit at the top, into the next one, and then the 2nd one when full flows into the largest tank. The water butts hold 220L each and the big tank is 1600L IIRC.

*Water Pressure*

I was initially disappointed with the complete lack of water pressure that comes from a tank like these. I expected gravity to have some impact, but the taps fitted seem to restrict flow to a very low pressure. Add on a standard hose and you barely get a dribble from them....

If using a PW you will either need a machine that will happily draw through a hose put in the _top_ of the water butt, or need to pump the water from the tank. I use a B&Q 'el cheapo' water butt pump like the one below, that cost £29.99 and provides a flow rate of 2200L/min, which is ample to feed even a water-hungry machine like my Kranzle...










*Learnings*

1. a single water butt of a typical 220L capacity wont feed a PW for very long. You'll be surprised how much water you get through...

2. they fill remarkably quickly when it rains, from even a small roof area, like the small area feeding my tanks - 1 night of rain will usually fill a tank 70% or so, depending on how heavy it falls...

3. if you use a natural gravity filter, as described above, you will get extremely clean water very easily, with minimal need for filtering if you are lucky  3 tanks seem optimal but with a little effort the water from a 2nd tank is usable. Water from my 2nd water butt is certainly no dirtier than a wash bucket once you have dipped a wash mitt in it a few times from a grubby car  I wouldnt drink it, but its perfect for washing a car :thumb:

4. rainwater in my area leaves ZERO water spotting even in full sun 

5. I have saved a lot of money in water costs from this setup, as well as being eco-friendly by massively reducing the amount of processed tap water I am using.

6. Shampoo foams MUCH better, and the suds last much longer, with the softer rainwater than tap water

7. The only tap water I now use is for diluting products and ALL washing is done with rainwater :thumb:

Let me know if anyone has any questions....:wave:


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## APK

I've not used for washing (yet) but have been using a couple of cans to rinse, I am also in a very hard water area, and again my drive is in full sun, but have found after just pouring a couple of cans over, ther is no need to dry, certainly not at this time of year, maybe in summer when I want the car to be spotless I will, but the car lives outside, and is used daily, so never stays clean for more than ady or so this time of year. I only have 2 tanks, and the 2nd is usually clean enough to use.


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## swiftflo

I use a similar setup except that I have found no need for a pump to the PW. I found that by pushing the hose from the PW direct on to the tap on the butt with no connector of any kind my Karcher PW is perfect, I saw that the typical connector was reduced inside to about 3/16" bore. My water butts are lifted aprox 12" off the ground. When we went onto a water meter roughly 4 years ago this is what I decided to do. As a retired Plumber I soon had this sussed out.


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## Bigpikle

APK said:


> I've not used for washing (yet) but have been using a couple of cans to rinse, I am also in a very hard water area, and again my drive is in full sun, but have found after just pouring a couple of cans over, ther is no need to dry, certainly not at this time of year, maybe in summer when I want the car to be spotless I will, but the car lives outside, and is used daily, so never stays clean for more than ady or so this time of year. I only have 2 tanks, and the 2nd is usually clean enough to use.


I found it works much better in summer as well, making it less critical to get it all dried off before it dries on the paint, even on a dark coloured car :thumb:


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## uk_

what would be the best way/cheapest way to filter the water if using 1 butt? iv been thinking about collecting the water from my garage flat roof which goes straight into my garden and keeps flooding it , i would only want to be using the rain water to rinse ,also where is the cheapest place for water butts?
thanks


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## Bigpikle

uk_ said:


> what would be the best way/cheapest way to filter the water if using 1 butt? iv been thinking about collecting the water from my garage flat roof which goes straight into my garden and keeps flooding it , i would only want to be using the rain water to rinse
> thanks


I used some filters like these - they should catch all particulates

I find the water in my first water butt can get a bit slimy at times though, so keep it rinsed out and all should be better. Might even be worth 2 slim water butts next to each other as i really think have a 2nd tank makes a big difference...


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## ads2k

Finally a useful post from you mate :lol: sorry mate.....

Very interested in this since you've mentioned it, have you got a supplier for the large tank ? 

Do the tanks need cleaning out ? and is it once a month or once every 6 months. Any other tips you need to tell us if we want to make a setup similar


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## Bigpikle

ads2k said:


> Finally a useful post from you mate :lol: sorry mate.....
> 
> Very interested in this since you've mentioned it, have you got a supplier for the large tank ?
> 
> Do the tanks need cleaning out ? and is it once a month or once every 6 months. Any other tips you need to tell us if we want to make a setup similar




I found my big tank far cheaper at my local indep plumbing shop in the high street, but all the DIY shops have them in various sizes. I was limited as I had such a narrow space to get it into and wanted a decent size, and there werent too many that would fit. The water butts are best had from water companies etc I think at about £20...

I have rinsed the first 2 water butts about 2 years ago and will probably do them again next week while there is plenty of rain to refill them quickly. The big one I've had 18 months and is still really clean - will be a real pig t clean out though, as its so big and the only access is the narrow access on the top. Hoping it really wont need it often


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## swiftflo

Bigpikle said:


> I used some filters like these - they should catch all particulates
> 
> I find the water in my first water butt can get a bit slimy at times though, so keep it rinsed out and all should be better. Might even be worth 2 slim water butts next to each other as i really think have a 2nd tank makes a big difference...


Agree


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## ads2k

Bigpikle said:


> I found my big tank far cheaper at my local indep plumbing shop in the high street, but all the DIY shops have them in various sizes. I was limited as I had such a narrow space to get it into and wanted a decent size, and there werent too many that would fit. The water butts are best had from water companies etc I think at about £20...
> 
> I have rinsed the first 2 water butts about 2 years ago and will probably do them again next week while there is plenty of rain to refill them quickly. The big one I've had 18 months and is still really clean - will be a real pig t clean out though, as its so big and the only access is the narrow access on the top. Hoping it really wont need it often


Thanks mate :thumb:, I was wondering how you would clean the third one.

Maybe this is the project I need to get the side of my house sorted out, the water bills just gone up again and being on a meter as you are is not good .

You may get more questions if I make a start


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## Bigpikle

ads2k said:


> Thanks mate :thumb:, I was wondering how you would clean the third one.
> 
> Maybe this is the project I need to get the side of my house sorted out, the water bills just gone up again and being on a meter as you are is not good .
> 
> You may get more questions if I make a start


PM as needed matey :thumb:

if you are running a PW though, you'll empty a standard water butt pretty quickly in summer (if ) it stops raining...


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## ads2k

This seems quite good ...

http://www.water4all.co.uk/index.php?id=140

Couple of them and then find a bigger at a reasonable price


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## Bigpikle

you can do cheaper than that - stand it on a few bricks/blocks so you can get a bucket under it and it shouldnt cost much.

here


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## ade33

Hi mate look like a good set-up.  What feeds the water from one butt to the next? Is there a system that draws water from butt #1 and feeds into the top of butt #2 and so on? Ta. :wave:

What about this one? Click here for BIG Butts (!)


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## ads2k

Bigpikle said:


> you can do cheaper than that - stand it on a few bricks/blocks so you can get a bucket under it and it shouldnt cost much.
> 
> here


Thats only the small one .....I'll need more than that won't I 

Maybe the 210L they do... I'll try all the garden centres round by me, we have loads 'retirement capital of the world' round here :lol: they've got to do something all day.....


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## Bigpikle

use a joining kit like this - cheap and effective :thumb:


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## Bigpikle

ads2k said:


> Thats only the small one .....I'll need more than that won't I
> 
> Maybe the 210L they do... I'll try all the garden centres round by me, we have loads 'retirement capital of the world' round here :lol: they've got to do something all day.....


get as much as you can. 200+ still goes quick 

try the water company as they often do the best deals as an incentive.


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## noop

Been thinking about doing th same thing but was never sure on how clean the water would be. Have you got any pics of the connections from the gutter? 

I have also been toying with the idea of using used britta filters in a similar manner in the collecting butt. They filter for ages and even if it is past filter use I know they will still filter to some effect! 

Just got to figure a way to create a barrier for the filter


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## Bigpikle

just standard rainwater diverter availabe from any garden centre - mines a pain as I had the drainpipe the other side of the gate, so needed an extension pipe to reach it.


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## ads2k

Bigpikle said:


> try the water company as they often do the best deals as an incentive.


That was from them , I'll keep looking.....


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## ade33

For those eBay nutters amongst us, how about this fella?

another huuuuge butt!

He'll do three of these delivered, for £60 or £22 delivered each for 220 litres.

The barrels are recycled plastic tubs "used once to import non-toxic foodstuffs from Europe." and look just like water butts but they're brown.

Apparently the strongest cheapest butts on eBay :doublesho:doublesho

For the money I might just try one out.


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## ads2k

What about these then :thumb:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/220ltr-WATER-...photoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

5 of these might give enough if all linked together and just move the pump between butt 4 and 5 ?? My pressure washer only 'needs' 330L an hour I think, so maybe the main one with the pump in needs to be at least that but maybe a 350L one would be ok.

The cheapest big one I've found is around £200+ :doublesho


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## ads2k

ade33 said:


> For those eBay nutters amongst us, how about this fella?
> 
> another huuuuge butt!
> 
> He'll do three of these delivered, for £60 or £22 delivered each for 220 litres.
> 
> The barrels are recycled plastic tubs "used once to import non-toxic foodstuffs from Europe." and look just like water butts but they're brown.
> 
> Apparently the strongest cheapest butts on eBay :doublesho:doublesho
> 
> For the money I might just try one out.


We're on exactly the same lines mate :thumb: you bet me to it.....


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## ade33

Great minds.........


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## Bigpikle

they all look good - just get one best shaped and sized for your space. Would suggest 2 x small ones is better than 1 x large one, so you get the benefit of the filtering effect. Ideal for buckets etc, and if you can get one that will feed a PW then all the better :thumb:


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## TriBorG

how long can you keep the water for does it not go stagnent ?


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## Bigpikle

TriBorG said:


> how long can you keep the water for does it not go stagnent ?


I've never had an issue in the big tank that I use for detailing water - really couldnt say but in a dark green tank that is designed for water storage IIRC it filters out the UV that causes some of the issue, meaning it really isnt an issue if you are using it regularly


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## Guest

A very very useful post this. Sadly, setting up a water butt (even just one) wouldn't be possible where I live, for a variety of reasons, though if house layout permitted, I wouldn't think twice about setting up a system like this. You would have a much less guilty feeling about wasting water and you would also have the clear advantage of reduced/no streaking. So even if you really do not care about saving water, it would still be crazy not to do this imho!

And before anyone says I really would like collect rainwater, I have some carnivorous plants and I always run out of water midway through summer with them, and it really annoys me because once they run dry it takes them months to recover properly.

More people should do this layout permitting


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## TriBorG

Bigpikle said:


> I've never had an issue in the big tank that I use for detailing water - really couldnt say but in a dark green tank that is designed for water storage IIRC it filters out the UV that causes some of the issue, meaning it really isnt an issue if you are using it regularly


And you do not have any problems running your kranzel through it ?

Do you ever use the Detergent suction pipe ??

Thanks

Gary


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## Bigpikle

TriBorG said:


> And you do not have any problems running your kranzel through it ?
> 
> Do you ever use the Detergent suction pipe ??
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Gary


My pump delivers 2200L/min and the Kranzle only needs 600L/min, so no issue. I havent used the detergent pipe yet TBH, and probably wont any time soon as I am trying to avoid foaming and splashing detergent all over the place


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## AndyC

Thanks Damon - just what I was after.


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## Guest

Bigpikle said:


> My pump delivers 2200L/min and the Kranzle only needs 600L/min, so no issue. I havent used the detergent pipe yet TBH, and probably wont any time soon as I am trying to avoid foaming and splashing detergent all over the place


L/Hr surely ?


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## Glasgow_Gio

We would need to build a swimming pool up here to store all the rain water.

I might bottle it and sell it as detailing water......hmmm


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## Gruffs

Bigpikle said:


> My pump delivers 2200L/min and the Kranzle only needs 600L/min, so no issue. I havent used the detergent pipe yet TBH, and probably wont any time soon as I am trying to avoid foaming and splashing detergent all over the place


Just wondering BP. Have you thought about flushing your loo with your rainwater too? You already have the pump after all.


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## Bigpikle

Great idea but a little too much work right now to set up. Will investigate further thou as its a great suggestion. :thumb:


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## Maxtor

I have not read all the thread, but this is something I wanted to look into.

I was thinking of upgrading my van to carry more weight so I could use a mat to catch and even recycle the water.

One problem I came across (or two) was the amount of fuel I would use,more emissions, higher road tax, more wear and tear on tyres, road surface, running gear etc....

Don't get me wrong, I think you have a very valid point and I take my hat off to you for all of the posts you have made to bring this to the front of peoples minds.

One thing that *has * annoyed me is the way that the government is banging on about "green" issues, but don't seem to want to help a small business like mine. The amount of red tape that covers any help in funding would put me out of work within a week! I can not be on the phone,fill in forms and wait around to see if they can give me the money to get set up.

Just a thought.

Maxtor.


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## enigma1992

This is a great idea and you have spurred me into action. I've already got a 220l water butt in the garden but i'm sure it needs draining, cleaning down and allowing to refill as it's been standing for a few years. (visions of car covered in algae after washing)

Then i've bought one of these bad boys:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300285083519

It's a little cheaper than the b&q price and seems to come with 2 filters already.

I'm washing 3 cars and running a dishwasher (in another unrelated activity) so any way of saving cash is a good idea. Thanks.

edit - i'm also considering one of these http://www.reuk.co.uk/Rainwater-Diverter.htm as i'm getting rainwater from a shed roof, and my house roof has a much larger surface area so will refill quicker.


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## Bigpikle

enigma1992 said:


> This is a great idea and you have spurred me into action. I've already got a 220l water butt in the garden but i'm sure it needs draining, cleaning down and allowing to refill as it's been standing for a few years. (visions of car covered in algae after washing)
> 
> Then i've bought one of these bad boys:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300285083519
> 
> It's a little cheaper than the b&q price and seems to come with 2 filters already.
> 
> I'm washing 3 cars and running a dishwasher (in another unrelated activity) so any way of saving cash is a good idea. Thanks.
> 
> edit - i'm also considering one of these http://www.reuk.co.uk/Rainwater-Diverter.htm as i'm getting rainwater from a shed roof, and my house roof has a much larger surface area so will refill quicker.


:thumb: :thumb:


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## sixsr

What are the costs involved with kind of set up?


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## Neil_S

It's a very good idea this Damon as I have said many times. This is top of my list when I save enough money to buy a house.

I should think this will also work with my plans for an RO filter with no "waste", my intention is to store any waste water for use in the garden or for rinsing, it makes me think that using rainwater as the input to the filter would be a great idea as the water should be softer it will mean the filter doesn't get spent as quickly and the waste water could quite easily be returned to the tank for rinsing/watering duties.

Some pre filtering may be necessary as to guarantee the quality of the supply to the RO filter, but this should be achievable in my view.


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## PJS

Bigpikle said:


> My pump delivers 2200L/min and the Kranzle only needs 600L/min, so no issue. I havent used the detergent pipe yet TBH, and probably wont any time soon as I am trying to avoid foaming and splashing detergent all over the place





G220 said:


> L/Hr surely ?


Indeed, Damon got his times a bit muddled.
10L per min = 600L per hour


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## enigma1992

sixsr said:


> What are the costs involved with kind of set up?


I think...

Rainwater diverter, £10.98:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110332100341

Butt pump £33.94

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300285083519

Butts x 2 £42.00 delivered

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110342765602

£86.92 total.

I wonder what the ROI on this is? Depends on how many cars you are washing and how often...


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## enigma1992

PJS said:


> Indeed, Damon got his times a bit muddled.
> 10L per min = 600L per hour


That's actually not too bad. One 220l butt would then last 22 mins, or am I getting this wrong? It seems a long time.


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## Guest

Where on each tank do you mount the hoze connecting them together?


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## nilitara

Hi guys

I too have a water butt, standing some 25cm off the ground. I previously used all my collected water from here, and had great results, as I live in a very high hard water area, I was always up against the clock trying to dry my car before i encountered watermarks. I now know this is never a problem using my collected rainwater.

I was wondering, as I've recently purchased a PW, and have fallen back into my old ways of running this off my outside tap, has anyone had any success of running a PW from a water butt supply?

Could I simply attach one end of my hose to the tap on my butt, and would I encounter any problems, due to low feed pressure? am I correct in thinking the pump in my Karcher does all the work, therefore no loss of pressure from my PW would be evident? my PW is a K2-950M 110 bar

Nige


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## ribena

hi

have posted this on here a couple of times

We have a 6000 litre rainwater tank that was installed when doing our newbuild

rainwater harvester link

this supplies us with hosepipe water, toilet flushing and washing machine supply and from the gutter goes through a leaf filter, pump filter and then another one before entering the house. This leaves the water as clean as out the tap

our water supplier told us our normal water bill for our house size should be £450 p/yr but we are only paying £160 p/yr and thats with more than average car washing with a kranzle 

we use IBC's at work and just had a shufty on ebay and they are only £35. This is what I would use if looking for a cheap system


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## Guest

enigma1992 said:


> That's actually not too bad. One 220l butt would then last 22 mins, or am I getting this wrong? It seems a long time.


that will be correct, obviously you need to take into account the tap isn't right at the bottom of the waterbutt, and you don't want to run it dry, etc.


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## Bigpikle

PJS said:


> Indeed, Damon got his times a bit muddled.
> 10L per min = 600L per hour


my bad - typo as stated 

2200L/hr pump
600L/hr Kranzle



enigma1992 said:


> I think...
> 
> Rainwater diverter, £10.98:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110332100341
> 
> Butt pump £33.94
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300285083519
> 
> Butts x 2 £42.00 delivered
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110342765602
> 
> £86.92 total.
> 
> I wonder what the ROI on this is? Depends on how many cars you are washing and how often...


ROI was not an issue as I had the water butts for >8 years since we moved in, but you're right, thats still a fair bit of water you could buy for that.

I didnt do it purely for money saving, although thats part of it, as the 'no water spotting' was a huge time saver (and that = money for me) and it makes me feel good knowing no treated water is used 



enigma1992 said:


> That's actually not too bad. One 220l butt would then last 22 mins, or am I getting this wrong? It seems a long time.


yep - get 2-3 good foam & rinse washes from a tank. You dont pump to the bottom as thats where any sediment sits anyway and pumps need a few inches of water to work.

A standard water butt will quickly run out during a few dry weeks of summer if we ever get any  hence my 1600L monster tank which has yet to ever get <25% full from washing activity 



Phisp said:


> Where on each tank do you mount the hoze connecting them together?


the 2 water butts are connected about half way up, and the 2nd butt has a connector right at the top that goes to the 1600L tank. This allows sediment to sink in the forst 2 tanks and not reach the main tank I use. Actually works very well and means the 2 water butts stay pretty full year round and are always available for garden use for my wife, so no grief for using up the plant watering supply :thumb:



nilitara said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I too have a water butt, standing some 25cm off the ground. I previously used all my collected water from here, and had great results, as I live in a very high hard water area, I was always up against the clock trying to dry my car before i encountered watermarks. I now know this is never a problem using my collected rainwater.
> 
> I was wondering, as I've recently purchased a PW, and have fallen back into my old ways of running this off my outside tap, has anyone had any success of running a PW from a water butt supply?
> 
> Could I simply attach one end of my hose to the tap on my butt, and would I encounter any problems, due to low feed pressure? am I correct in thinking the pump in my Karcher does all the work, therefore no loss of pressure from my PW would be evident? my PW is a K2-950M 110 bar
> 
> Nige


depends on your Kranzle Nigel

the 10/120's and K1150 like mine, dont like drawing from a static water supply as the pump is running too fast to draw water sufficiently. The 7/120 is designed to run well from a static source like a water butt, due to the lower speed pump :thumb: Your manual will tell you for sure.


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## sixsr

I think I'll look into this.


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## cactusbob

I really only have space for one butt, any tips on how to get the water as clean as possible out of it?


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## enigma1992

cactusbob said:


> I really only have space for one butt, any tips on how to get the water as clean as possible out of it?


How about a single leg of tights tied tightly around the downpipe?


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## knoxvillain

how do you find it in winter for ice etc?


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## Bigpikle

knoxvillain said:


> how do you find it in winter for ice etc?


froze for the first time recently when we got -12 degs 

even then it was only about 1" on the top, and was simple enough to break 

Damn cold water though at those temperatures, but I get a bucket and leave it in the hallway overnight the day before to get it to warm up significantly


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## [email protected]

damn good idea there fella!

i will be building (or rather getting built) my garage and carwashing area later this year, and I have access to lots of 220ltr containers, and even the 1000lt IBC's.

I will now get them added to the side of the garage in series and use the fresh rainwater when I can.

the powerhose I have is this one here - i am just wondering if I would need the butt pump to feed it, or would gravity suffice?

can you post a side pic of your set up so I can see how best to connect them, and would i be best setting up 3 - 4 220lt drums in series, or maybe just 1 or 2 feeding into a 1000lt IBC?

thanks again


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## Bigpikle

I cant post side pics as the are wedges in a gap only 3' wide 

they are simply connected by standard water butt connectors, available in any DIY or garden centre. I looked at IBC's as they are much cheaper, but the space is far too narrow to get those in there 

Gravity feeding is really poor, so really only worthwhile if you dont need much flow. My Kranzle wouldnt run happily on gravity alone, especially as the PW is 10m from the tank, and using a standard hose there is only a very low flow rate...


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## enigma1992

Update from me. The 220l green water butt has been emptied and scrubbed down ready for refill from rainwater. 

Emptying the butt from the on board tap was straightforward, the water coming out was very clean indeed right down to the last tenth of the butt where it started to pour like dirty water, then like sludge! This tells me that the dirt in the tank settles easily, but that if the pump sits at the bottom of the tank, this sort of contamination is not good enough!

While the weather is lousy I think i'll leave the butt alongside the shed and use the old tights wrapped around the downpipe trick to keep the water as clean as possible until I can relocate the butt alongside the house and to take the feed from the main roof.

I've had an email from the seller of the pump to say it's shipped so i'm praying for rain and hopefully next week i'll be washing from free water!


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## Bigpikle

good stuff :thumb:

let us know how you get on. Maybe put the pump on something to raise it about 1' from the bottom of the tank. A plastic box or bucket would do it. Means you slightly less water capacity but guarantee to keep it out of the dirtier water?


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## enigma1992

Will do! I'm not ignoring that the butt hasn't been drained for around 4 years so i'm not really surprised by the level of dirt. All that considered, the water that I did take out in the main was as clean as I would get from a tap.


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## swiftflo

*Rainwater*

Dear,dear,dear me. After reading all the posts on this subject I cannot believe my eyes.Why oh why do you all have to make things so difficult. I have been using collected rainwater for about 4 years now, with no problems. I have rainwater butts connected together, so easy, cut matching holes in the butts, just get plastic overflow tank connectors and fit a piece of plastic overflow pipe between them. My RWP goes directly into the first butt and this is fitted with an overflow to discharge any overflow of water away. I push the 1/2" hose from my PW directly on to the tap at the bottom of the butt farthest away from the one being filled from the RWP.
Have run water from this butt into a glass and can never see any thing amis with the water. Do not use any type of hosepipe to tap connector, the bore in some of these is so small it restricts the flow of water to the PW causing it to stop/start.


----------



## Bigpikle

^^ exactly :thumb:


----------



## Hair Bear

swiftflo said:


> Dear,dear,dear me. After reading all the posts on this subject I cannot believe my eyes.Why oh why do you all have to make things so difficult. I have been using collected rainwater for about 4 years now, with no problems. I have rainwater butts connected together, so easy, cut matching holes in the butts, just get plastic overflow tank connectors and fit a piece of plastic overflow pipe between them. My RWP goes directly into the first butt and this is fitted with an overflow to discharge any overflow of water away. I push the 1/2" hose from my PW directly on to the tap at the bottom of the butt farthest away from the one being filled from the RWP.
> Have run water from this butt into a glass and can never see any thing amis with the water. Do not use any type of hosepipe to tap connector, the bore in some of these is so small it restricts the flow of water to the PW causing it to stop/start.


Pics of set-up pleez :thumb:


----------



## swiftflo

Pics of set-up pleez


----------



## swiftflo

Hair Bear said:


> Pics of set-up pleez :thumb:











The white pipe on the right is the overflow pipe,(this discharges into the adjoining hedgerow) there is a pipe on the inside of the butt connected to this which goes upward to maximise the amount of water stored. There is no end to the number of butts that can be connected this way.


----------



## Hair Bear

swiftflo said:


>


Close :lol:

Sorry mate, was after the tap set-up aswell if poss'? Where you plug the PW hose in?

And I'm guessing the small link between the two butts is where one flows into the other? A bit low, no?


----------



## swiftflo

Hair Bear said:


> Close :lol:
> 
> Sorry mate, was after the tap set-up aswell if poss'? Where you plug the PW hose in?
> 
> And I'm guessing the small link between the two butts is where one flows into the other? A bit low, no?


Maybe a bit low but if you look at the butts this was the only way I could get flat surfaces in both butts for the inter connection. Regarding the taps/draw offs these are standard B&Q butts with the taps as supplied with them, so no mystery about them. I have never in the last 4 years run out of water from them, if I had then I would have added more butts, connecting them same. Hope this all helps, there is no need for any complicated setups with filters or pumps to pump water to the PW.
Should add that because the overflow pipe in the 1st butt (where the RW flows into) is 2" from the top of that butt,on the inside, so the water in the other butts is also near the top, in other words both butts are completely full and when drawing water from the draw off butt you not only have a complete butt full of water but near enough half the other one as well.


----------



## enigma1992

Hair Bear said:


> Where you plug the PW hose in?


You don't connect the hose or PW to the butt. There is a pump that you connect power to & hose that you drop into the butt from the top. I've not got mine yet, but this is as I understand it.


----------



## swiftflo

enigma1992 said:


> You don't connect the hose or PW to the butt. There is a pump that you connect power to & hose that you drop into the butt from the top. I've not got mine yet, but this is as I understand it.


Unless you are using your PW a long way from the water butt I cannot see a problem with water pressure to the PW. I use my PW around 8 mtrs from the water butt and have never never had a problem. I just push the 1/2" hose from the PW straight onto the Tap at the bottom of the water butt, no complications, no extra pumps. I really think people are making this setup to complicated and there is no need.


----------



## Bigpikle

I used the pump for 2 reasons:

1. I want this water available for garden use as well, up to 30m from the tank, and gravity wont even get water out the end of the hose  The pumped water is almost mains pressure at the end of my garden :thumb:

2. my PW struggled with the distance to the tank, and now having a very hungry PW (10L/min) that is NOT designed to draw water from a static source, it wouldnt cope with the distance to the tank.

I agree its not necessary if you just have a short distance to the PW and dont need to move the water around anywhere else.


----------



## swiftflo

Bigpikle said:


> I used the pump for 2 reasons:
> 
> 1. I want this water available for garden use as well, up to 30m from the tank, and gravity wont even get water out the end of the hose  The pumped water is almost mains pressure at the end of my garden :thumb:
> 
> 2. my PW struggled with the distance to the tank, and now having a very hungry PW (10L/min) that is NOT designed to draw water from a static source, it wouldnt cope with the distance to the tank.
> 
> I agree its not necessary if you just have a short distance to the PW and dont need to move the water around anywhere else.


As I have said.:thumb:


----------



## cuzza

How does the pump work? When you release the trigger on your PW does it stop pumping water or do you have to unplug it when you are not using the PW (i.e. when washing the car but still wanting more water to rinse afterwards)?
BTW Amazon have the Hozelock ones on offer here;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000PBWCTQ/ciaouk-homegarden-21/ref=nosim


----------



## Bigpikle

pumps runs constantly its plugged in. Instructions say it can happily run like that for 10 mins, so its not an issue for my quick use. It is plugged in with the PW where I work so I just unplug it when the PW isnt running.

As said above, the pump isnt needed in most situations


----------



## [email protected]

guys, would this extremely technical drawing show a simple layout quite well?

just so I can get this clean in my own head before i implement it:










thanks in advance


----------



## robsonavant

after reading this topic it inspired me to go and get a butt today albiet just a 100lt one as space is limited may be able to creep in another next to it but for now it will fill my watering can


----------



## chunkytfg

big pimp said:


> guys, would this extremely technical drawing show a simple layout quite well?
> 
> just so I can get this clean in my own head before i implement it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks in advance


when you run out of water in the second tank how do you get it out of the first tank(the one the gutters drain into)?


----------



## [email protected]

chunkytfg said:


> when you run out of water in the second tank how do you get it out of the first tank(the one the gutters drain into)?


i dont know - thats what i'm asking?!!?


----------



## Bigpikle

^^ my original 2 tanks are joined about half way up, which gives a little more capacity before water drops below the overflow level. You effectively get 1 tank full before the levels drop to the point where the water supplies disconnect, then still have half a tank in the 2nd butt.

Water butts all have a tap installed anyway, so you can always get the water out of both the tanks. Its just important to remember to stand them on something that lifts them 12" off the ground so you can get a watering can or bucket under the tap 

The good thing is they fill very quickly when it rains so its only the hottest weeks in summer when you have an issue.


----------



## jeroens

Could one not just connect the vessels at a much lower level (close to bottom)?

Thinking back to school Physics and what was called (translated from dutch not sure what's called in English) the Law of the 'Communicating vessels' - the vessels should level out, so also should allow you to use both vessels when emptying...

Right?!


----------



## Frothey

thats what I do jeroens - the tap from the first (and second, I use 3 tanks) are about 20 cm's up to make sure that there's some room for "sludge" in the bottom - though I only get that in the first butt.

I only ran out once last year, and that's with watering the garden too....


----------



## [email protected]

and therefore, in the detail, when you're using the tap from the 3rd butt, the laws of physics mean that as you're draining from the 3rd bung the water from the other 2 bungs is automatically refilling it?


----------



## swiftflo

big pimp said:


> guys, would this extremely technical drawing show a simple layout quite well?
> 
> just so I can get this clean in my own head before i implement it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks in advance


:thumb::thumb:


----------



## swiftflo

Bigpikle said:


> ^^ my original 2 tanks are joined about half way up, which gives a little more capacity before water drops below the overflow level. You effectively get 1 tank full before the levels drop to the point where the water supplies disconnect, then still have half a tank in the 2nd butt.
> 
> Water butts all have a tap installed anyway, so you can always get the water out of both the tanks. Its just important to remember to stand them on something that lifts them 12" off the ground so you can get a watering can or bucket under the tap
> 
> The good thing is they fill very quickly when it rains so its only the hottest weeks in summer when you have an issue.


:thumb::thumb:


----------



## jeroens

big pimp said:


> and therefore, in the detail, when you're using the tap from the 3rd butt, the laws of physics mean that as you're draining from the 3rd bung the water from the other 2 bungs is automatically refilling it?


yes, they should level, all 3...

so this means that the joint between tanks should be much lower than in the drawing, so either as low as possible or as 'In The Detail' said a bit from the bottom to let the 'sludge' settle (stay in the other tank(s))

Atleast in theorie 









Edit: Also known (US) as Pascal vases, see http://demo.physics.uiuc.edu/lectdemo/scripts/demo_descript.idc?DemoID=229


----------



## [email protected]

thanks very much everyone - i'm gonna get out and get it made up!


----------



## TANNERS

i recently purchased a 1000l tank for this rurpose.

but havent set it all up

so glad i found this thread

ill try to explain my situation and perhaps you guys can advise

:thumb:


----------



## swiftflo

TANNERS said:


> i recently purchased a 1000l tank for this rurpose.
> 
> but havent set it all up
> 
> so glad i found this thread
> 
> ill try to explain my situation and perhaps you guys can advise
> 
> :thumb:


I would not use a 1 Tank setup. The first tank is the one that collects all the grunge from the roof's. Far better to use at least 2 tanks & draw water from the 2nd one for car cleaning. :thumb:


----------



## Frothey

big pimp said:


> and therefore, in the detail, when you're using the tap from the 3rd butt, the laws of physics mean that as you're draining from the 3rd bung the water from the other 2 bungs is automatically refilling it?


yep - though i just stick the hose in the top of the third tank (no tap on it) as the PW will "suck"


----------



## TANNERS

shall i come from the down pipe into a 40 litre then into my 1000l or something like that to filter it may be...

q. does the tank have to be high or will the pw suck it up 

cos i got loads of low level storidge:thumb:


----------



## swiftflo

TANNERS said:


> shall i come from the down pipe into a 40 litre then into my 1000l or something like that to filter it may be...
> 
> q. does the tank have to be high or will the pw suck it up
> 
> cos i got loads of low level storidge:thumb:


That sounds okay :thumb:


----------



## swiftflo

In The Detail said:


> yep - though i just stick the hose in the top of the third tank (no tap on it) as the PW will "suck"


Isn't that making the PW work hard. If the connection to the PW is from the bottom of the storage tank surely gravity water flow will help a little. (anyway thats my theory)


----------



## Relaited

I just found this web site, thought I sould share, some good info & examples

http://www.aquabarrel.com/index.php


----------



## Bigpikle

Relaited said:


> I just found this web site, thought I sould share, some good info & examples
> 
> http://www.aquabarrel.com/index.php


they look pretty good Jim - but first you need some rain in S. California! At least we're lucky that it doesnt take long to fill water tanks in the UK, even in mid summer :lol:


----------



## Relaited

Yes, this solution is like selling snow to the Eskimo here in So Cal.

However, the car Wash is under fire for perceived water consumption issues. Believe it or not, I am working with several of them on some Water $mart solutions, and yes waterless is attractive to them. If they are required to cut water consumption by 10%, which is a real possibility or probability, then they might have to cut cars by 10% ... ouch. they are also considering it as a best of breed solution to go mobile, and leverage the 300-400 cars on a Saturday to then offer a higher level of detailing services.

Rain water harvesting, although not much value in the summer, does have some value in the winter, maybe even perceived value. If they introduce these efforts, reduce landscape water, etc, then they might even be able to be placed in the Water Bills, sating go to the Commercial Car Wash during this drought … type of thing.

Cheers,

jim


----------



## Bigpikle

Relaited said:


> Yes, this solution is like selling snow to the Eskimo here in So Cal.
> 
> However, the car Wash is under fire for perceived water consumption issues. Believe it or not, I am working with several of them on some Water solutions, and yes waterless is attractive to them. If they are required to cut water consumption by 10%, which is a real possibility or probability, then they might have to cut cars by 10% ... ouch. they are also considering it as a best of breed solution to go mobile, and leverage the 300-400 cars on a Saturday to then offer a higher level of detailing services.
> 
> Rain water harvesting, although not much value in the summer, does have some value in the winter, maybe even perceived value. If they introduce these efforts, reduce landscape water, etc, then they might even be able to be placed in the Water Bills, sating go to the Commercial Car Wash during this drought … type of thing.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> jim


it has to be a good idea to capture whatever you can and use it where possible. I have 2000L sat here, much for garden use during summer, as my wife is a keen gardener and we wont use any tap water for that, but it also means I can wash my cars year round and never turn on a tap :thumb:

I've never seen a static car wash make any claims about using harvested water, but as most have a roof, it would make sense that capturing and filtering rain water would reduce costs as well as impact - cant be that tough I wouldnt have thought


----------



## NKS

Well I took the plunge yesterday and ordered two 220 litre Water Butts, thanks to all Damon's and others advice :thumb:

A question I have is, I did not purchase the drain connectors nor did I purchase the pipe to connect the two butts up, Simply because I did not know which one's to go for. 

Could you please help me finding a suitable connector to connect up the two butts and also a drain pipe connector, there are some with filters and some without, some with stoppers, some with balls, and some that cost £200!

So your help is greatly appreciated!


----------



## Bigpikle

NKS said:


> Well I took the plunge yesterday and ordered two 220 litre Water Butts, thanks to all Damon's and others advice :thumb:
> 
> A question I have is, I did not purchase the drain connectors nor did I purchase the pipe to connect the two butts up, Simply because I did not know which one's to go for.
> 
> Could you please help me finding a suitable connector to connect up the two butts and also a drain pipe connector, there are some with filters and some without, some with stoppers, some with balls, and some that cost £200!
> 
> So your help is greatly appreciated!


many butts come with a simple diverter - you may get lucky.

You really only need a simple diverter, available anywhere like a DIY shop of garden centre. If you find one with a simple filter to keep muck out then all the better, but its not necessary IMHO.

cheap kit at Screwfix here but these can be had anywhere...










water butt joining kit like this is ideal - might be able to get a better price local or ebay etc but this is what you want...worth getting a proper kit rather than bodging it, as these wont leak 










The connector kits are almost as easy to find - just a simple pipe with 2 fittings for each end. The hard part is cutting a hole in both tanks as the plastic is pretty tough - get a decent hole cutter attachment for your drill would be best.


----------



## NKS

Thanks for the quick reply Damon, the tanks should arrive today. So I will check to see if they include the diverter. I am pretty sure I will need to purchase the connecting pipe for the two butts though.

The link you sent me for the divertor does not say whether it has an overflow ball or not. Or is this not needed either as once the pipe from the gutter to the butt is full it won't go any higher right?


----------



## Bigpikle

never seen an overflow ball, but sounds useful.

the diverter will have instructions in it but the key is that the diverter should be cut into the drainpipe just slightly below the level of the top of the water butt. Then, as the tank fills, the diverter will back up with water and wont fill any more. If you put the diverter above the top of the butt, the water will continue to pour in and overflow the tanks. Its not always possible but should be done if you can, otherwise you need to manually block the diverter when the butts fill up or you will get constant overflow....

You wont get a joining kit - these are easy to find though. At each end is a connector and you cut a small hole in the side of the water butt, poke through the fitting and put a screw on backing plate on the inside of the tank. It has a rubber seal so stops the tank leaking. They are usually about 12-15" long so the tanks need to sit close to each other. 

Dont forget to raise the butts up enough so you can get a bucket or watering can under the tap. You can buy stands but I just use old blocks/bricks. Remember the full tank will weigh >200kgs/450lbs, so make a sturdy safe base


----------



## NKS

Thanks again!

The tanks I purchased came with the stands so hopefully this will do the job.

I'll show you my set-up when its all up and running. Hopefully should be this weekend when I get som free time and all the parts are in :thumb:

Oooh two of the last questions I have is:

1) I read on this thread that when connecting up the two butts togeher the hole should be about three quarters of the way up is this correct and will both butts fill up to the brim like this?

2) I will want to use my Karcher with these butts, so would I need a spearate pump for this, or could I just attach to the tap on the second butt? Its a Karcher 6 series KB 6060 or thereabouts....:S

Cheers


----------



## Bigpikle

doesnt matter where you join them, as the water level will be the same in both tanks.

no idea on your Karcher - I think most will draw from a water butt but it will also depend on how far the PW is from the water butt. I wouldnt use the tiny little tap though as it restricts the flow a lot, and I would simply try putting the hose right into the top of the water butt.

A pump would no doubt help, and perhaps prolong the life of the PW motor, and is great if you want to use the butts for watering the garden etc, as the gravity feed from the tanks themselves is next to useless once you get more than a few feet from the water butts themselves.

Lidl have 1 on special from the 5th March


----------



## NKS

Cool thanks Damon,

Looks like i'll be down at Lidl tomorrow and buying that pump, those pump sprayers look handy as well may pick up a few of those as well


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## NKS

Well after searching the Lidl site, I thought I'd check Aldi as well and low and behold they are selling Water Butts if anyone is interested. Pretty cheap as well. I purchased the same one's at £35 delivered.

http://www.aldi.co.uk/uk/html/offers/58_9005.htm


----------



## Bigpikle

the pump sprayers are OK but very cheap feeling - they are the same as the ones I got from Kingdom Tools, and while they work, the handles and other bits feel as cheap as the price suggests 

wouldnt stand up to strenuous daily use IMHO but OK for us weekenders


----------



## IJM

So... if I understand all this correctly, the general rule of thumb to follow is:

If you're using a water butt as a settlement tank (i.e. so solid particulates will settle out of the water) you connect each successive settlement tank near the top of one to the top of the next. The connection from your settlement tank to your "final" storage tank(s) should also be made near the top. But the "final" water butt(s) you draw your water from should be connected near the bottom and the water drawn for use from the bottom. I think that's right, isn't it?


----------



## olliecampbell

Yep that sounds right...


----------



## karl0308

Bigpikle said:


> If using a PW you will either need a machine that will happily draw through a hose put in the _top_ of the water butt, or need to pump the water from the tank. I use a B&Q 'el cheapo' water butt pump like the one below, that cost £29.99 and provides a flow rate of 2200L/min, which is ample to feed even a water-hungry machine like my Kranzle...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> did you mean 2200l/min or per hour?
> Ihave ordere one from screw fix and says 150l/min and somebody said that is far to powerful


----------



## enigma1992

karl0308 said:


> did you mean 2200l/min or per hour?
> Ihave ordere one from screw fix and says 150l/min and somebody said that is far to powerful


LOL it's hour. I think per minute would be something from a fire truck.

I have a similar pump made by hozelock and it's almost the same pressure as a mains tap, perfectly fine for a jetwash and fine as a regular hose.


----------



## karl0308

the pump i just got is 9000l/h is this too much for a water tank and pw to be attached to?


----------



## enigma1992

karl0308 said:


> the pump i just got is 9000l/h is this too much for a water tank and pw to be attached to?


Here's mine

Hozelock 3n1 Water Butt Pump: Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors

Do you have a link to yours?


----------



## Omnic

How much the tapwater costs in GB?
In Finland it's ~3£/1 m³/1000 l.


----------



## karl0308

enigma1992 said:


> Here's mine
> 
> Hozelock 3n1 Water Butt Pump: Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors
> 
> Do you have a link to yours?


mine is here 
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/77014...mps-and-Hoses/Clean-Automatic-Water-Pump-400W


----------



## one_question

Very interesting thread this. I have read it as I am looking at installing a system at home.

I can get a 1000 litre tank for £30. 

OK, I was looking at installing two of these tanks in the garage and using them to supply water for my bin cleaning business. Now as I only do my cleaning part time, I should have some water left. I was going to use this for the washing machine (also in the garage). Only thing, I'd need an on-demand pump. 

Anyone else got a system with a pressure operated pump? I have hunted the ol' Internet but the cheapest custom pump I've found is almost £200. I've even looked at shower pumps but these start at about £150. 

So if anyone has a DIY rainwater harvesting system, what have you used for a pump? Alternatively, anyone know of a suitable pressure triggered pump? 

G


----------



## one_question

I’ve found myself an automatic pump for my rainwater harvesting system. With postage, it works out at about £65 and will supply water at 1.5 to 2 bar and will turn itself off when the tap closes. I’m assuming that that is enough pressure for a washing machine.

I’m going to set up my system so that the water enters a 30 litre drum. From here it overflows into a 1000 litre container which will be connected at low level to a further 1000 litre container. Not sure whether to put some filter medium into the 30 litre drum or just to rinse it out every few months.

The 1000 litre drum will have a ball valve connected to the mains at low level. This should keep the bottom 8 inches or so full of water; this is to stop the drum running dry – a wash cycle with double rinse is probably about 100 litres. 

One worry I’ve got is how to stop the float snapping off when the drum is full of rain water. I think I have some solutions but I am not sure of their effectiveness yet. One solution is to fit a shelf above the float so that it can’t rise any higher once the valve is closed – not sure how much access there is to the inside of a IBC drum though. Another option involves one of the large Cola bottles, slightly weighted with concrete to keep it upright and a ball valve assembly fitted to the bottle itself. Need a bit more investigation into this though. I’d fit a gate valve to the mains inlet so that when the washing machine is not in use – there is no chance of the ball valve failing.

I’ll take some photos of it once complete – will be a few weeks yet though.

I reckon that the full cost will be about £150 - £200. With water costing £2.50 per 1000 litres, I’m hoping for a return on investment within a year. There’s also the advantage that we should save on washing powder – time will tell.

G


----------



## Bigpikle

like your ideas with this one...

I stupidly missed a trick last year when I had our patio replaced. I found some very cool water tanks designed to sit underneath a patio, which are very shallow and you only need to dig out about 12" or so, and can store several '000L of water right under the patio, with an automatic pump etc. Sadly I found them after we finished laying all the stone 

While not strictly detailing related, can i ask you to write up your work in a new thread in this section so it stands out and doesnt get lost in this thread please. Would make an interesting read for many I'm sure, along with some pics 

thanks


----------



## one_question

^^

Will do. Once I physically start the project, I'll create a new thread. 


Cheers

G


----------



## mkv

Rather than start a new thread, thought Id update this one.
I was in my local B&Q today. I got 3 205litre water butts for a £5 each!!!!!
Now bings my rain water capacity up to about 1000litres.
Baragin, I dont know if they are available in other stores. Similar to these: http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.j...efview=lister&ts=1253903940659&isSearch=false


----------



## SteveOC

For anybody who may have bought a Karcher water pump for recycled rainwater:

http://www.karcher.de/en-GB/about_kaercher/recall.htm

(Yes, they cannot spell their own company name and that is not a typo on my part in the URL!!!).

Steve O.


----------



## Guest

since building my car port,ive found my water but 100lt fill's up rather quickly,now i try and save water when washing by using water from the water butt to wash my wheel's and arche's with,also use in my grit guard rinse bucket,and iam rather impressed on what iam saving :thumb:


----------



## Bigpikle

swiftjon said:


> since building my car port,ive found my water but 100lt fill's up rather quickly,now i try and save water when washing by using water from the water butt to wash my wheel's and arche's with,also use in my grit guard rinse bucket,and iam rather impressed on what iam saving :thumb:


quickly adds up doesnt it - sounds like you are getting some good benefits.

we had such a dry summer and early Autumn here that I almost emptied my 1500L of tanks with both car washing and garden use. No danger of that now its got a bit wet again though. I could easily live without an outside tap now for sure.


----------



## jamest

I have my two butts set up and use it for filling up the buckets.

Unfortunately there isn't enough pressure to use the pressure washer with it which means the only way I can completely get rid of the outside tap is to get a pump.

Any recommendations on a pump, only really used once a week.


----------



## Bigpikle

B&Q did a cheapo one for about £25 that I;ve used for a few years with no issue. Lidl did one a while back as well but no idea if they still do.


----------



## jamest

Bigpikle said:


> B&Q did a cheapo one for about £25 that I;ve used for a few years with no issue. Lidl did one a while back as well but no idea if they still do.


So the cheap ones will be OK to supply a pressure washer?

If so may have a look at Screwfix/Homebase.


----------



## Bigpikle

yep - check the pump flow rate is enough for your PW, but they are usually many times higher than a PW. My Kranzle is 10L/min and the pump was about 4x that at 2200L/hr IIRC.


----------



## jamest

> 330 Litres per hour water flow rate


That should be alright then. Cheers.


----------



## paranoid73

Just reading this out of interest as i would like to do this some time. If you use a 3 tank system and connect the first 2 tanks at the top, surley the crap that floats on top of the first tank flows into the second tank? would it not be better to take the feed from the bottom to the top? or do you use a filter between the first two?


----------



## jamest

paranoid73 said:


> Just reading this out of interest as i would like to do this some time. If you use a 3 tank system and connect the first 2 tanks at the top, surley the crap that floats on top of the first tank flows into the second tank? would it not be better to take the feed from the bottom to the top? or do you use a filter between the first two?


Most dirt will sink to the bottom of the first. You could add a simple filter to the connection between the 1st and 2nd tanks or even the 2nd and 3rd tanks, although it would be easier to clean if it was at the top of the 1st/2nd.

I have 2 tanks with the connection between them around 1/3 of the way up and very little visible dirt is in the 2nd tank, whereas the bottom of the 1st tank is quite filthy.


----------



## enigma1992

paranoid73 said:


> Just reading this out of interest as i would like to do this some time. If you use a 3 tank system and connect the first 2 tanks at the top, surley the crap that floats on top of the first tank flows into the second tank? would it not be better to take the feed from the bottom to the top? or do you use a filter between the first two?


The dirt sinks and doesn't really float so you should be ok.


----------



## sicko

how do you care for your tanks during the winter, does water freezee?


----------



## jamest

sicko said:


> how do you care for your tanks during the winter, does water freezee?


As it is stationary water, it is likely to freeze, just have to wait for to thaw out.


----------



## Cosdog

I've been giving this some thought recently and hadn't seen this thread before.

Theres quite a few things to bear in mind depending on what quality of water you want to get out of the water butts. Domestic water services use a substantial number of steps to deliver water to our taps including amongst others sedimentation tanks, flocculation processes, activated carbon filters ph balancing etc etc... However it is possible to create high quality "detailing" water from rain water.

The main concern for detailing (and the reason many pros use Reverse Osmosis water) are particulates that can be carried in suspension in the water that may leave (minute) marks on the paint. If one felt extremely picky then de-ionising and pH correction is something else that could be addressed, but I don't believe this to be strictly necessary.

*Particulate Removal*

Particulates are what you really want to remove. For this, as has been mentioned above I believe, you can use 2 water butts. The primary butt (where your rain catcher feeds into) can the serve as both a sedimentation tank where heavier than water particles drop out and a flocculation chamber, where particles that are lighter than water can stay and float around. You will need to make sure that the off-take for your secondary (clean water) tank isn't low enough to entrail the sediment at the bottom of the primary tank. Ideally, for both of these mechanisms to work adequately you will need a reasonable residence time in the primary tank, so it might be worth installing a valve in between the two tanks, and allowing the water in the primary tank to settle before opening your valve to feed water into the clean water tank.

Now, this will not address particulates that are in suspension in the rainwater as they will move with the main body of water. The only way to remove these is via filtration. A way to achieve this would be to install a filter housing (either CUNO or traditional home water filter housing) in between you primary and secondary tanks. You can get elemants of varying pore size, a quick look on ebay should give you plenty of options. A minimum of 50 micron is what I'd use, probably going down to 25 micron if I was using a single stage filtration step. How small you want to go with your pore size is up to you, but remember that the smaller the pore size, the larger the differential pressure between tanks 1 and 2 will need to be to pass water through it.

Now, there is another principle to consider. Multistage filtration is more effective that single stage. You also don't necessarily need to go to a smaller pore size on the second stage. Filters work on retention probability, ie it will have X% chance of catching a particle of size Y. So by using two filters of the same size you greatly increase the chance that a particle will be entrapped in either filter without having to contend with the cumulative differential pressure requirement of the large and small filter (only the two large ones). Of course there is nothing stopping you from using a larger pore size followed by a smaller one, but the gain in performance is generally largely outweighed by the hike in pressure required to achieve the desired flowrate.

*Driving force*

To move water from tank 1 to tank 2 you will need some form of driving force. Hydrostatic pressure (water level) will help do this naturally, but bear in mind that if they are on level ground as tank 2 fills up the differential pressure will get smaller and smaller. If you have a filtration step in between the two tanks this may get smallenough to be unable to overcome the differential pressure required for foltration, thus you will lose some of your available volume in tank 2. Mounting the first tank higher than the second will, essentially, give you free driving force. if you mount it high enough you could feed into to the top of tank 2.

The other option is to fit a small pump between the two, and simply operate the pump when you want to fill up your clean water tank. if you're feeling ambitious you could automate this process with a few level sensors, but thats an entire added level of complexity.

*Cavitation*

Cavitation is a good way to ruin a pump and/or pressure washer. It is an effect whereby the inlet to the pump is being fed by an orifice or tube which is too narrow to allow the required flowrate of water into the pump. This creates extremely low pressure points on the trailing edge of the impeller blades, to the point where vapour bubbles form. These bubbles then collapse and the momentum aquired by the water during this collapse slams into the pump impeller causing severe damage. This will make your pump sound like its pumping rocks. It can easily wreck a pump in a matter of minutes. Moral of the story is: Make sure your pump inlets are as large as practical, and do not restrict the inlet more than the size of the inlet on the actual pump.

Air ingestion cavitation is another form of this, whereby air is entrailed in the water prior to it going into the pump. This happens typically when the water level of the feed tank is low. Although this sounds equally horrific, its no way near as damaging to the pump.

So, its impostant to have a good sized outlet from tank 1 if you're using a pump, and similarly its important to have a good sized outlet from tank 2 to feed you power washer (this includes anything that will restrict the flow, like taps/valves).

Summary:

The above steps should give you water that is relatively free of any particulates for a minimal investment. For general detailing duties I see no problem in using it.

However its worth keeping in mind that:

1.it will not be potable (nothing is done to address bacteria, algae and viruses which love stagnant water).
2. the pH of the water may vary, depending on the area of precipitation and the surfaces the water will run off before entering you tank.
3. If one were VERY particular about the water used, then this wouldn't be as good as de-ionised Reverse Osmosis water, but I think thats massive overkill for detailing anyway. Bear in mind any products you use will affect the pH of the water far more than the initial pH of the water itself.

Anyway, I just though I would share a couple of thoughts and maybe give someone an idea or two. At some point I will implement this in my garden and do a write-up.

Cheers for reading


----------



## jamest

I opened up both of my water butts last week to see what condition the water was in and how full they were.

First one had lots of little bits floating around and a very dark bottom, almost black.

The second one had a lot less but still a fair amount of semi-translucent things floating around in the water and a loose scattering of dirt at the moment and that is with zero filtering between the two.

Interestingly though none of the dirt/floating stuff seems to come out when using the tap even though it is situated near the bottom.

I really need to look further in to getting a pump put in to it as I now have a water meter and don't want to be needlessly using house water to wash the car when lets face it the water from the second butt is still going to be much better than rain water and the dirty water you will get at the £3-5 car washes.


----------



## TOGWT

Bigpikle said:


> I found my big tank far cheaper at my local indep plumbing shop in the high street, but all the DIY shops have them in various sizes. I was limited as I had such a narrow space to get it into and wanted a decent size, and there werent too many that would fit. The water butts are best had from water companies etc I think at about £20...
> 
> I have rinsed the first 2 water butts about 2 years ago and will probably do them again next week while there is plenty of rain to refill them quickly. The big one I've had 18 months and is still really clean - will be a real pig t clean out though, as its so big and the only access is the narrow access on the top. Hoping it really wont need it often


You could fit a large bore valve low on the tank and back-flush with a pressured water supply


----------



## ant_s

This is something I will hopefully be doing at my house when me and my gf finally move in as the house is on a metre. 

I'll hopefully be building a garage/workspace, would that be ok to collect rain water from? I'm planning on proabably a single width, but longer than a normal garage. Obviously it all depend's on roof area to catch the water. I'd probably think of running 3 in-line tanks.

Has anyone checked ppm of water after 2 or 3 tanks?


----------



## enigma1992

It's a good idea and my view, having done it from two 220 litre tanks, is that it's worth the effort. Each member will be different but I'm using around half a tank per car and am very generous with the amount of water used both with a jetwash and with a spray trigger.

Water bills have gone down for me too as I'm on a meter.


----------



## jamest

enigma1992 said:


> It's a good idea and my view, having done it from two 220 litre tanks, is that it's worth the effort. Each member will be different but I'm using around half a tank per car and am very generous with the amount of water used both with a jetwash and with a spray trigger.
> 
> Water bills have gone down for me too as I'm on a meter.


What pump are you using?


----------



## enigma1992

jamest said:


> What pump are you using?


I'm using a Hozelock water butt pump.

I was initially concerned that I wouldn't get the pressure from the back of the house to the front and road but there is no issue in that regard. Also, when used with the jet wash, i'm unable to tell the difference between mains and butt water.

I've read about the concerns of water contamination, but the above pump has a pre-pump filter and a secondary filter at the hose attachment, so I don't see any problem at all when cleaning. The added advantage is if the water dries on the car, there is no streaking unlike the tap water around here


----------



## deej

Does anyone have a guide for connecting butts in sequence?

i.e. best to connect at the top or bottom of each tank and how is best to do this/details of the dynamics of this?


----------



## jamest

deej said:


> Does anyone have a guide for connecting butts in sequence?
> 
> i.e. best to connect at the top or bottom of each tank and how is best to do this/details of the dynamics of this?


Doesn't really matter.

If you connect near the bottom you will have more water to use if you are using a lot, if you connect near the top you will only have the water in the first butt to use.

The lower down the connection between the two, the more dirt and sediment will come through to the second butt.

I put mine half way up. As I have 2x 200l butts, I have around 300l of usable water.

If I put it at the top, I would only have 200l to use. If I put it at the bottom I would have 400l to use (and a lot of dirt).


----------



## enigma1992

jamest said:


> Doesn't really matter.
> 
> If you connect near the bottom you will have more water to use if you are using a lot, if you connect near the top you will only have the water in the first butt to use.
> 
> The lower down the connection between the two, the more dirt and sediment will come through to the second butt.
> 
> I put mine half way up. As I have 2x 200l butts, I have around 300l of usable water.
> 
> If I put it at the top, I would only have 200l to use. If I put it at the bottom I would have 400l to use (and a lot of dirt).


I think the problem you will have is that if you are filling from empty say after a dry spell in the summer, you will have all of your butts half full whereas if you connect as high up the butt as you can, each butt will fill to the max, then begin to fill the next. If you are worried about sediment, I suggest an arrangement of bricks at the bottom of butt#1, sort of like a grit guard for butts.


----------



## jamest

enigma1992 said:


> I think the problem you will have is that if you are filling from empty say after a dry spell in the summer, you will have all of your butts half full whereas if you connect as high up the butt as you can, each butt will fill to the max, then begin to fill the next. If you are worried about sediment, I suggest an arrangement of bricks at the bottom of butt#1, sort of like a grit guard for butts.


No you aren't. Both water butts will fill up to the top wherever the first butt connects to the drain and doesn't matter where you put the connection between the two.

You can eliminate sediment by doing it half way up or above but if you are pulling water out the second butt, you won't have access to the bottom half (or more) of the first butt.


----------



## F2 Ed

Great thread 

I only ever use rain water to clean cars at home. I have a single water butt but might invest in a second soon. Might pm you about hooking that up when i get it, as im not sure how to hook it up in tandem


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## Shinyvec

I have been using Rainwater for washing cars now for over 12 months and gradulay built up my storeage for water so I now have about 800L filterd and stored. This has made a massive difference to our Water Bills as we have a Water Meter and we get a bill every 6 months which is now about £120 each time. I wish I had started this years ago as I could of saved loads of money by now.


----------



## Derekh929

Well done Andy great idea do you work a pressure pump to give you a decent flow from tank or does the head of water do that for you


----------



## Shinyvec

I just have a tap at the bottom of the tank I use for washing and a length of hosepipe with Hozelock fittings on. I just fit the pipe on to my Powerwasher and it works fine. I also have a Lidl Waterbutt pump in the same tank with the hose fitting com ing out of the top and this is for when I want to use just a hosepipe with pressure


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## luke86

Interesting read as i'm thinking of using rain water


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## Blackmondie

this is just what I was looking for. as I'm trying to capture all the water from the roof of my horse stables, and in 1 night, the 220l water tank overflows... so I bought 2 110l tanks, 2 220l tanks, and 1 1000l water tank. Might have to buy another 1000l water tank then


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## Blackmondie

can I ask a question about this setup are the pipes that go into the barrel and the one to the other barrel just connected at the top, or do the pipes inside the barrel go to the bottom and are open there?


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## Shinyvec

If you connect the link pipes at the top, each tank will fill once the other has first. If you link the tanks from the bottom the tanks all fill at the same time and are all the same level ( subject to ground level ). This I think is the best way and then all the tanks get refreshed when it rains at the same time


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## Blackmondie

no, I mean going from the bottom of tank 1 to top of tank 2


----------



## Shinyvec

You could do it like that but unsure how you will go with it, I have mine linked at the bottom to the bottom as mentioned before


----------



## Mugwump

You would be better going from top to top. That way all the contamination settles to the bottom of tank 1, and it is the clean water at the top that then flows to tank 2. 

If you go from the bottom of tank 1, you are more likely to get dirt and crud from tank 1 getting up the transfer pipe and into tank 2, which is what you are trying to avoid by using multiple tanks


----------



## jamest

Higher up you go the less likely you are going to get contamination like mugwump says (although if you right at the top you might get floating bits getting across) but when you go closer to the top you limit the amount of water you have access to but it's highly unlikely that you will use a full tanks worth without the rain filling it up again.


----------



## FrOd

Great Thread.

I'm having a few isusses with fine grit sediment from my water butt and PW setup. Its just a Nilfisk C110 connected to a single butt via the tap near the base. There is plenty of pressure, but the pw doesnt seem to be able to filter the particulates that cause fine paint swirls, etc.

Here is my proposed setup.










On the left is my downpipe and diverter, the right shows my present 220l water butt and in the centre is my proposed sedimentation tank (fashioned from a sealed 110mm waste pipe).

Anyone see any problems with this?

I was thinking, wouldn't the sediment from the first tank spill into the water butt once it was full?

Do I have the angle of the linking pipe right?

Thanks


----------



## jamest

Large bits of grit will sink. There will be small fine grit that will float, so maybe moving the connection between the two down slightly would help a little bit.

You could also add some sort of filter in the first bit which you can take out and clean when you need to.


----------



## Blackmondie

jamest said:


> Large bits of grit will sink. There will be small fine grit that will float, so maybe moving the connection between the two down slightly would help a little bit.
> 
> You could also add some sort of filter in the first bit which you can take out and clean when you need to.


If you move the connection down, that won't help, because the water just won't rise above this level anymore, and you still get the floating bits in the next tank


----------



## jamest

Blackmondie said:


> If you move the connection down, that won't help, because the water just won't rise above this level anymore, and you still get the floating bits in the next tank


That is incorrect and against the laws of physics.


----------



## zahtar

May I suggest something like this?










This way the dirt will be stirred around the bottom, the cleaner water will rise and part of that will flow to the next tank. You might get flowing bits, but I guess that will be an easy job for a water filter to take care of. So installing water filters between the tanks (which don't need to be large) should do it.


----------



## FrOd

zahtar said:


> May I suggest something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This way the dirt will be stirred around the bottom, the cleaner water will rise and part of that will flow to the next tank. You might get flowing bits, but I guess that will be an easy job for a water filter to take care of. So installing water filters between the tanks (which don't need to be large) should do it.


I don't believe that will work, as the first tank is above the level of the diverter. Hence, it will never fill.


----------



## zahtar

Ok, I should have written in more clearly. Make all the water from the black pipe go in tank 1.

The above picture should mean that the black pipe has a closed bottom and the only way out for the water is the 1st brown tank. That should definitely make it fill. Unless the connection between black and brown gets clogged...


----------



## FrOd

Right, as I've 2 lengths of pipe, I thought I'd put them both to use, hence i've now come up with this:



Should this filter better?


----------



## FrOd

zahtar said:


> Ok, I should have written in more clearly. Make all the water from the black pipe go in tank 1.
> 
> The above picture should mean that the black pipe has a closed bottom and the only way out for the water is the 1st brown tank. That should definitely make it fill. Unless the connection between black and brown gets clogged...


Hmm, gonna have to look into that. Thanks.


----------



## zahtar

Your last diagram implies that you route *part* of the water to the tanks. That would be only a small amount judging form the thinner diameter of the "horizontal" pipes. I think you would need to make sure that as much water as possible goes to the tanks, that's why I suggested the closed bottom.

And every now and then you can close the input to the 1st tank, open the black and clear it of leaves grime etc. I imagine that the black comes straight from the rooftop. Closing the black pipe's bottom could be an issue, hydrostatic pressure could increase there a lot. Maybe this could work better


----------



## M20fes

loving it. what with summer water bans and ever increasing water rates, what could be better then free rain water.


----------



## FrOd

zahtar said:


> Your last diagram implies that you route *part* of the water to the tanks. That would be only a small amount judging form the thinner diameter of the "horizontal" pipes. I think you would need to make sure that as much water as possible goes to the tanks, that's why I suggested the closed bottom.
> 
> And every now and then you can close the input to the 1st tank, open the black and clear it of leaves grime etc. I imagine that the black comes straight from the rooftop. Closing the black pipe's bottom could be an issue, hydrostatic pressure could increase there a lot. Maybe this could work better


Right, I think i've just about understood what your saying. The (black) downpipe goes directly to the tanks and not to the drain at the bottom. When the tanks are full, I then manually open a valve and let the run off water down the drain?

If so, that defeats the object of fitting a diverter, which fills the tanks anyway and diverts any surplus water back down the downpipe. If that's not what you mean, please correct me.

Its only fair to point out, I also plan to fit another tap to the base of the 1st sedimentation tank, to enable me to clear it of course gunk resting near the bottom, after extended use.


----------



## Blackmondie

jamest said:


> That is incorrect and against the laws of physics.


water will try to level, but ones it reaches a pipe, it will float to the next barrel, or it will have to rain very hard fot it to get higher then the pipe, and ones it stops raining, everything will float throigh the pipe into the next barrel til it levels in there. so the floating bits will go through.

don't forget to put a an extra pipe in the last barrel as an overflow...


----------



## jamest

Blackmondie said:


> water will try to level, but ones it reaches a pipe, it will float to the next barrel, or it will have to rain very hard fot it to get higher then the pipe, and ones it stops raining, everything will float throigh the pipe into the next barrel til it levels in there. so the floating bits will go through.
> 
> don't forget to put a an extra pipe in the last barrel as an overflow...


The barrels fill up quickly when it rains. The water level doesn't take long to rise above the connector.

Also, you don't need an overflow on the last barrel as there is generally already an overflow in the gutter downpipe.


----------



## Blackmondie

jamest said:


> The barrels fill up quickly when it rains. The water level doesn't take long to rise above the connector.
> 
> Also, you don't need an overflow on the last barrel as there is generally already an overflow in the gutter downpipe.


but when it stops raining, the water will go down again and you will end up with the dirt in the last barrel again.

I forgot about the overflow in the gutter downpipe. But you will need one when you put the rainpipe directly in the barrel


----------



## dabhand

Found this thread whilst looking for info on waterbutt driven PW's and pumps, here's my set up coming off the garage roof, all fittings came from B&Q, 2 x 220L butts, 1 diverter and 1 joining kit. When the butts are full the water just continues down the drain pipe into the overflow in the garden.

Thinking I may get another if I'm going to use a PW. Agree with other comments though, the water in the RH butt has more sediment and bits floating in the the LH one.

















The white thing in the RH butt is just a blank filling a hole that was used earlier. Just going to daisy chain them up if I expand.


----------



## zahtar

FrOd said:


> Right, I think i've just about understood what your saying. The (black) downpipe goes directly to the tanks and not to the drain at the bottom. When the tanks are full, I then manually open a valve and let the run off water down the drain?
> 
> If so, that defeats the object of fitting a diverter, which fills the tanks anyway and diverts any surplus water back down the downpipe. If that's not what you mean, please correct me.
> 
> Its only fair to point out, I also plan to fit another tap to the base of the 1st sedimentation tank, to enable me to clear it of course gunk resting near the bottom, after extended use.


This is not what I meant, I had an overflow pipe in mind. But either a diverter or a valve should do the job nicely, yours sounds like a better idea. I still believe that itwould be better connecting the top of each tank to the bottom of the next for the reason I described in post 156.

EDIT: Just to make things absolutely clear, what exactly is a diverter and how does it work? Does it just route the water one specific way, or there is more into it? Is there a possibility to choose between routes according to water pressure or something? thanks in advance


----------



## jamest

zahtar said:


> This is not what I meant, I had an overflow pipe in mind. But either a diverter or a valve should do the job nicely, yours sounds like a better idea. *I still believe that itwould be better connecting the top of each tank to the bottom of the next for the reason I described in post 156.*


Believe all you want, it won't make any difference.



zahtar said:


> Is there a possibility to choose between routes according to water pressure or something? thanks in advance


Water is affected by gravity, it will go down to the bottom and rise as more water is added.

The diverter takes water from the downpipe and feeds it in to the water butt. All the diverters I have seen such as the one in post 167 will direct the water in to the butt until the water level in the butt rises to the level of the diverter at which point the water will overflow back down the drainpipe.


----------



## zahtar

jamest said:


> Believe all you want, it won't make any difference.


I believe the thread starter posting about his 2nd and 3rd tank being cleaner. Refer to post #1.



jamest said:


> ...
> The diverter takes water from the downpipe and feeds it in to the water butt. All the diverters I have seen such as the one in post 167 will direct the water in to the butt until the water level in the butt rises to the level of the diverter at which point the water will overflow back down the drainpipe.


What you suggest is more like a split/junction/fork without valves. What I understand as a diverter (English is a foreign language to me) was a valve like the one people have on their bath tub to choose where the water is routed/channelled to. If you use the shower head, water rises to the level of the showerhead, usually above the level of the tub filler without flowing from the end you don't want it to. In case the diverter is a more complex/automated plumbing device than I thought and serves other purposes, that's what I don't know and why I asked in my previous post.

Thanks for your answer.


----------



## jamest

zahtar said:


> I believe the thread starter posting about his 2nd and 3rd tank being cleaner. Refer to post #1.


The top to bottom connection will make no difference. For each butt you add, the water will be cleaner and cleaner.



zahtar said:


> What you suggest is more like a split/junction/fork without valves. What I understand as a diverter (English is a foreign language to me) was a valve like the one people have on their bath tub to choose where the water is routed/channelled to. If you use the shower head, water rises to the level of the showerhead, usually above the level of the tub filler without flowing from the end you don't want it to. In case the diverter is a more complex/automated plumbing device than I thought and serves other purposes, that's what I don't know and why I asked in my previous post.


There's nothing clever involved with the downpipe diverter.










Water comes down the downpipe, most of the water rolls down the inner walls which catches in the diverter (pink), this then fills up to the point of where the water reaches the tube to the butt at which point it will overflow in to the butt. Once the butt is filled up to the top of the tube/inside lip of the diverter, the water has no where to go other than to overflow back in to the downpipe.


----------



## FrOd

Well, my water butt setup _was_ complete and had been running for a few days, right up until the base in the 1st sedimentation tank began leaking.

I patched it up best I could and reconnected everything. It managed to stay leak-free for less than 2 days, until the other tank sprung a leak - so I am all but abandoning this idea. :wall:

Now, one way or another, I am determined to complete this project, so I'm now focusing my attentions to Plan B.

By utilizing a standard 10" filter and housing between the downpipe and water butt, such as this:










I can omit the 1st and 2nd sedimentation tanks completely, thus having a setup like this:



I really wanted this to be maintenance free (i.e. - no faffing with filters) but it looks as though as this is probably the best solution I can come up with.


----------



## Blackmondie

i would work with at least 2 watertanks, and put the filter in between 1 and 2. 
where you've put it now, it will be saturated in no time... will cost you a lot in filters


----------



## FrOd

Blackmondie said:


> i would work with at least 2 watertanks, and put the filter in between 1 and 2.
> where you've put it now, it will be saturated in no time... will cost you a lot in filters


Job done (for now). 

That was the main reason I didn't want to go down the filter route, tbh. But its done now and I kind of have a "pre-filter" fitted between the diverter pipe and the main filter's inlet, in the form of some cheap stockings (and no, I don't wear them. :lol

Behold...



It is fitted with a carbon block filter (which I wouldn't be surprised if it cakes up in no time) but I can always swap it out to a washable and reuseable 25 or 50 micron job, later on.


----------



## dabhand

Can't remember if its already been asked or said anywhere so,

Bigpikle - Have you got anymore details on your big water tank, how much and where from ? 
Also is it supported on anything to get the water levels the same to match the butts feeding it ? 

A 210 litre Sankey butt with stand is £50 in B&Q, so these big ones could be good value.


----------



## gabrielleitao

Interesting! I love these things.
Save as much water as you can and re-use it!  really good.
thanks!


----------



## rex

I have been using harvested rainwater for a while. Had a 6500 litre tank buried in the front garden in the soakaway we had to install with the new house build. Fills up very quickly from the roof. Has a 1.2 kW pump and draws the water from the top by the use of a float. Mainly used by sprinkler system but excellent for car washing. In a very hard water area so ideal for me.


----------



## Filtrum

Resurrecting an old thread but can anyone tell me if the pumps mentioned are suitable for supplying enough pressure to a hose?


----------



## steelghost

Search for water butt pump and you'll find lots of options. The big DIY stores do them for about £50, online vendors specialising in rainwater collection, storage and use tend to start about £70 and go (way) up, albeit for a considerably better specified unit.

"Enough" pressure is a relative thing - how long a hose, what do you need to do with the water at the other end (ie just supply a pressure washer, or use the hosepipe as is), is the place you want to use the water higher or lower than the place it is stored?

I looked into this in quite a bit of detail before deciding that for the cost of a decent pump, I could make up a large hose that would give me sufficient flow and be entirely reliable (ie, no moving parts to go wrong, or electrical connections to make)


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## dabhand

I have a Hozelock butt pump and its ok for using with a hose to wash the car off, it's mainly used for pumping water from my waterbutts to the pressure washer.

The hose length, as said before will come into it, mines ok for about 30 feet, not tried it with a longer one.

http://www.hozelock.com/our-products/watering/pumps/water-butt-pump/


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## AllenF

Filtrum said:


> Resurrecting an old thread but can anyone tell me if the pumps mentioned are suitable for supplying enough pressure to a hose?


No. .....
a pump creates flow.
Restriction to flow causes pressure


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## Filtrum

So it would be enough to pump it along a hose but not really enough to be useful? My hose will be about 25 metres long. I don't have a pressure washer and my parking is not next to my house but the other side of my neighbour's house so I usually attach two hoses together and run that from the outside tap but like the idea of reducing my water bills and using some free water. So for this to work I really need to purchase a pressure washer?


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## steelghost

It should work but I'd go for a bit of a beefier pump than the cheapest B&Q one


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## ZAF14

my main tank is going to be a 1000ltrs which mean ill get about that in fresh clean filtered water when connected to two more water butts but what size do my water butts need to be tho can i get away with say 100ltr water butts so 200ltrs plus the 1000ltrs or do i need my water butts bigger i can't see the need for bigger surely as the water butts are not for holding extra water but to help filter the water out to go into the last tank the 1000ltrs one so not there for extra water but purely to act as two big filters whats peoples thoughts??????


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## steelghost

Firstly, punctuation is our friend, do not fear it! 

As regards your question, I'm using a 2x200l water butt system, drawing water from the second butt. As I noted in my thread in this forum, the inline filter I put in the hose between the butt and the pressure washer is catching basically nothing, which tells me that one stage of gravity filtration is sufficient. 

So given you've got plenty of storage in the 1000 litre tank, I don't see you need anything more than a single 100 litre filtration tank. Just make sure the pipe that goes between that smaller tank and the larger one comes out of the smaller one about ⅔ to ¾ of the way up. This way it avoids passing both sediment (at the bottom) and floating debris (top quarter of the tank).


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## Filtrum

Sorry to resurrect this thread again but just want to check some things. Going to buy a pressure washer next week, I'm currently not sure if it will run from my water butt without a pump until I look at its instructions. But if I do need a pump will a submersible pump like this work: http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb582pmp-400w-automatic-dirty-water-pump-240v/65041
Thanks for your help


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## steelghost

What PW are you getting? You can almost always pull the instructions down off the net to look that up.


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## Filtrum

Lidl one so probably not!


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## steelghost

Have a look here... http://www.lidl-service.com/cps/rde...1/lsp/hs.xsl/searchpage.html?rdeLocaleAttr=en


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## steelghost

If you do find you need a pump I'd look at the Clarke ones that Machine Mart sell, quality on Titan gear can be a bit hit and miss.


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## Filtrum

Had a look at a manual on there for the one I think it is but didn't seem to mention whether it would need pressure from a tap or not. Will just give it a try when I get it. Cheers for the pump recommendation will have a look.


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## michaelb73

How do you guys stop these butts from leaking?

Mine are leaking from the pipework where they are joined. 

I still need to add another butt to my 2 existing ones and have bought a pump so I can use my hose pipe.


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## steelghost

michaelb73 said:


> How do you guys stop these butts from leaking?
> 
> Mine are leaking from the pipework where they are joined.
> 
> I still need to add another butt to my 2 existing ones and have bought a pump so I can use my hose pipe.


Make sure you use the rubber washers and tighten then all up properly. You may also need a jubilee clip on the pipe, depending on the fitting.


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## dabhand

michaelb73 said:


> How do you guys stop these butts from leaking?
> 
> Mine are leaking from the pipework where they are joined.
> 
> I still need to add another butt to my 2 existing ones and have bought a pump so I can use my hose pipe.


I've used bathroom sealand. Works OK.


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## Bazsm

michaelb73 said:


> How do you guys stop these butts from leaking?.


I've connected my butts with hozelock connectors so no leaking on mine 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## michaelb73

Used all the washers along with sealant and jubilee clips. 

Still weeping at the joins. &#55358;&#56596;


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## steelghost

michaelb73 said:


> Used all the washers along with sealant and jubilee clips.
> 
> Still weeping at the joins.


Can you post a picture?


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## ganwilliams

michaelb73 said:


> Used all the washers along with sealant and jubilee clips.
> 
> Still weeping at the joins. ��


Try getting some PTFE tape to wrap around any threads / joints etc as you are putting the joints together.


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## gardian

I have been reading this thread for a while and decided to get a setup in the garden. I have a Guttermate diverter with their own fine mesh filter, this goes into a 100 L water butt, this is connected at the top to another 100L butt and this is connected, again at the top, to a 210L butt which is where i am wanting to take a feed for my pressure washer from. I have just been out to get a sample of the water i have collected and the water in the 210 L tank isnt as clear as i though it would be. it had a couple of little floaters in and looked a tiny bit cloudy. what I am doing wrong? would this damage the Karcher i would be using it in, or the paint? seems the filter at the drain pipe and the 2 100 L tanks isnt enough? thanks


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## steelghost

My waterbutts are south facing and in the summer the water gets a little bit warm and slightly green. Doesn't do the car or the pressure washer any harm.


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## gardian

I will give it a go tonight, on her car, see what its like.


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## kinioo

swiftflo said:


> I use a similar setup except that I have found no need for a pump to the PW. I found that by pushing the hose from the PW direct on to the tap on the butt with no connector of any kind my Karcher PW is perfect, I saw that the typical connector was reduced inside to about 3/16" bore. My water butts are lifted aprox 12" off the ground. When we went onto a water meter roughly 4 years ago this is what I decided to do. As a retired Plumber I soon had this sussed out.


Was thinking of doing this, but wasn't sure if the 'gravity water pressure' on tap will be sufficient for the PW ??

What Karcher do you use??

Thx,

C.


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## steelghost

kinioo said:


> Was thinking of doing this, but wasn't sure if the 'gravity water pressure' on tap will be sufficient for the PW ??


The way to check this is to test the amount of water flowing into a bucket over a period of 30 seconds or a minute (depending on the flow and the size of your bucket) and compare that to the flow rate for your PW. Also bear in mind that flow rate from a water butt or similar will reduce as the water level drops.


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## gardian

kinioo said:


> Was thinking of doing this, but wasn't sure if the 'gravity water pressure' on tap will be sufficient for the PW ??
> 
> What Karcher do you use??
> 
> Thx,
> 
> C.


its only a small one I cannot remeber the model number I have had it about 8 years, i have had this working from one of the 100L butts and it was fine, the pressure from the tap at the bottom of the 210L tank is much higher so cannot foresee any problems with this


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## Hughie

*Rainwater re use*

Hi, (I've just posted this on the Scottish section)

I have purchased these 2 from Amazon and have now run a rainwater hose to the front of our house so I am able to connect my pressure washer to the water butt when I want. It's a chea**** solution.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/foam-water-... water gun

https://www.amazon.co.uk/151652-Heav.../dp/B01LWY1VO8


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## michaelb73

steelghost said:


> Can you post a picture?


I have now solved this. I have used sealant and quality jubilee clips and now no leaks.

I have also now bought a hozelock water pump and have 3 100 litre butts all connected.

Tried for the first time last week and was actually pretty impressed with the pressure from the hose pipe......wasn't much different to the tap and the positive is its free!!


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## steelghost

Good stuff  Yep if you've got a pump you'll find it's pretty much like mains pressure.


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## Kenan

Ballpark how much water is needed to clean a car? I was looking at a 110 water butt but unsure if it will be big enough. Have a K4 and normally only rinse, snow foam, rinse, hand wash and rinse again.


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## steelghost

I think you can easily use 150+ litres in a single wash, although equally I'm sure you could manage on 50 or so. I have 2x200l litre butts and don't wash my car every week, but when I do I like to give the arches a good blast out, rinse it down very thoroughly; it's quite a big car as well (family estate).


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## Kenan

Thanks, 210L it is then. All fitted and now I'm waiting for rain almost as badly as some wanting to do a beading shot...


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## piolim

I use rainwater too and its very economical. I have a big drum where I store rainwater during the rainy days and I also cover it with soft cloth to prevent insects from entering. Using rainwater could help us save more water and do more cleaning.


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## micksea

Two days with decent rain and I've got about 450 litres of rainwater in my IBC storage tank,happy days


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## percymon

Anyone interested in setting up a water butt might be interested by Aldi's offer starting Sunday..

https://www.aldi.co.uk/gardenline-210l-water-butt-set/p/049159277921600


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## Bikeracer

percymon said:


> Anyone interested in setting up a water butt might be interested by Aldi's offer starting Sunday..
> 
> https://www.aldi.co.uk/gardenline-210l-water-butt-set/p/049159277921600


Looks identical to the set up I bought from Homebase but that's a better price.

The threads on the tap needed some PTFE tape to seal because the rubber gasket leaked.........not obvious until the butt starts to fill.

Allan


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## Justanothersept

Hey all, 

Just an idea 

if I got tank 1 from rain drain

Filter 

Tank 1 to Small RO system with the resin filter- waste water to go back into tank 1 and 0ppm water into tank 2 

Would that work ? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Leezo

Can anyone post up pictures of their harvesting system, been looking through old threads and from pg1 on here and most images posted I can't see. 
Hopefully moving to a new house and trying to reduce my water bill as we're on meter and its recently skyrocketed
Also on a typical maintenance wash routine how many litres of water would you guys use?
Hoping that 2 220l slimline butts should suffice?


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## alex125

This seems a good idea but to my knowledge rainwater is one of the purest form of water and it should be used for ground water replenishment and for drinking purposes. Dont you think?


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## BrummyPete

alex125 said:


> This seems a good idea but to my knowledge rainwater is one of the purest form of water and it should be used for ground water replenishment and for drinking purposes. Dont you think?


Great first post, how do you know some people dont use the water for watering the plants etc as well as saving on their water bill


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