# PC vs iMac



## Alex_225

Well my home PC has packed up and I really can't be ar$ed to fix it, think it's the motherboard. Thing is it's 5 years old and I was planning on buying a new computer next year anyway but I'm bringing that forward. 

But I'm in two minds as to go down the PC or Mac route as I know there's strong views on both so don't want to start that argument. 

I just wondered what the views on going for an iMac are? I've always been a PC user but the hardware by Apple has impressed me big time these last couple of years and I'm feeling drawn to a 27" iMac.

Worth the extra over a PC? Thoughts please people. :thumb:


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## T.D.K

I really do like the look of Imac's but I think for the money, you can get a much better PC.


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## Buck

iMacs ate fantastic pieces of kit *but* they offer virtually zero upgradability as to do anything you have to remove the screen so RAM or HDD changes are not easy.

Having said that, the whole Mac experience is a good one if you can accept the extra ££ and the need to learn a new OS (albeit a very easy and intuitive one)

One final thing, in terms of the limited upgradability, make sure you choose the right spec for you - a visit to an Apple store or approved retailer is essential.


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## Alex_225

Yeah that's what I can gather is that for £1,500 you can get an epic spec PC but the way a Mac handles software seems to be significantly more efficient.

I'm not too fussed now days about upgrading, I just want something that's going to last and that I can just switch on and go! haha


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## GR33N

Never used an iMac, but I use my Macbook Pro all the time. I rarely use my other laptop now, and cant see me ever going back. The 14% student discount helped as well :lol:


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## rizo

imac is excellent i have a 27" i7 the screen quality is awesome


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## Alex_225

Funnily enough my Mrs can get me a discount as she's a teacher, about the only discount you're ever going to get on an Apple product haha


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## DW58

After 24 years of PC use and perhaps ten of hankering for a Mac, I finally made the mode last year and haven't regretted it for a moment.

For:


Build quality & great looks
Reliability
User friendly interface
Longevity
Fantastic integration
Great selection of hardware/software
Quality experience
Against:


Cost - but this is relative considering quality and longevity
I have a MacBook Pro plus 27" Thunderbolt display which gives a superbly portable but high performance machine with the benefit of a great desktop interface for home use - not cheap but awesome. This also integrates superbly with both my iPad 2 and iPhone 4.

The iMacs are great - in retrospect I have thought it over and given my time again I'd probably have gone for a 27" iMac + 11" MacBook Air.

Yes, there are Mac haters here and everywhere, but how many of them really know anything about Macs - not many I suspect.

We have four PCs in the house - I loath them with a passion!


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## DW58

Alex_225 said:


> Funnily enough my Mrs can get me a discount as she's a teacher, about the only discount you're ever going to get on an Apple product haha


It's a damned good discount though - check your PM in a minute or two.


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## Alex_225

I must admit what does appeal to me is a computer which is still capable of 5 years down the line. 

Don't get me wrong I don't hate PCs or Windows, I deal with them every day but it just seems Apple gear simply works. I'm not techy at home like I used to be haha


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## DW58

Alex_225 said:


> I must admit what does appeal to me is a computer which is still capable of 5 years down the line.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I don't hate PCs or Windows, I deal with them every day but it just seems Apple gear simply works. I'm not techy at home like I used to be haha


You've summed it up very well in two short paragraphs :thumb:

I've got a friend who is still using a MacBook with well over five years on the clock.


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## rizo

4years on and my macbook is still going strong, my mum is on her 3rd windows laptop now (each costing £400) makees the mac seems good value.


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## init6

I got my first iMac about 5 years ago because I just got fed up fixing PCs. I also (then) worked on computers for a living so just wanted to come home and use one without having to rebuild every few months. Fell I love with the OS (once I'd figured out how to uninstall an app  ) and had almost no issues in the five years. About 4.5 years of use I had the power supply fail and managed to swap it out for about 60 quid. I've never had a PC be problem free for even a fraction of that time.
Now on my 2nd one (27" iMac i7) and even more impressed. I appreciate that the newer ones are more difficult to tinker with, but you shouldn't have to. Do try to get the best spec you can afford as even macs will slow down over time as more gets added to the software and OS.


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## IanG

I've had my white Intel iMac for 6 years and it still does what I need it too 

Never had a windows PC this long without having to upgrade


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## OvlovMike

Alex_225 said:


> I must admit what does appeal to me is a computer which is still capable of 5 years down the line.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I don't hate PCs or Windows, I deal with them every day but it just seems Apple gear simply works. I'm not techy at home like I used to be haha


6 years on and my 8 desktop PCs are still going strong, it's all about being appropriate for the job. I've got a bunch of first-gen Core2Duos that are great for using for 'stuff', have been since day dot and run Windows 7 and Office 2010 no bother at all. Got a first-gen Core2Quad that still plays most games at a plenty decent enough rate 5 years on and I've just given my sister a 7 year old laptop that's absolutely plenty for what she needs to do.

Sorry, the Mac smoke and mirrors bull**** really gets my goat. Don't install freeware **** on your PC, and it won't spit it's dummy out. Go out and do stupid things with a Mac, and it'll grind to a halt too.

Simple. Really, really simple. If you like value for money, better, expandable hardware and support for just about any piece of software in the world, get yourself a Windows PC. If you crave excessive costs, headaches any time someone asks if you could have a look at X, Y or Z document and want to fit in with the 'hip' crowd, get yourself a Mac.


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## Andy1983

Once you've had Mac you never go back


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## Ric

I love my macs, i've had quite a few but the only one i haven't had is an iMac.

The main issue for me was gaming, not many new games are out for mac, although recently this is changing with Steam for mac etc.

But then there is the lack of graphics power inside a iMac (yes they are good, but not good enough)

I have an iPhone, iPad and Macbook Pro 17" for mobile but my home rig will always be a PC for gaming power with good graphics cards.


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## Bero

A big thing is made about upgradability - I for one have never upgraded a computer....well except my Mac-Mini as the price Apple wanted fro the RAM was silly and upgrading it is insanely simple.

But if you like messing about and swapping things over Mac is not really for you, if you play intensive games Mac is not for you. Mac is NOT crash proof and contrary to popular belief Mac does not always 'just work'.......



.......but they do 99% of the time, and setting things up is always simple and intuitive and are great pieces of kit, I only have a Mini and run it on the living room TV for light work and as a Home Theater Computer.

I was rather annoyed when I got the Mini (bought an apple wireless keyboard and track pad to go with it) as the keyboard would not connect so I couldn't use it.

I'd had a few beers and sent Tim Cook a mini rant on being disappointed as this was my 1st Mac and it not 'just working'. 1st thing the next morning I got a phone call from apple executive services telling me what I needed to do (source a USB keyboard to take it to an apple shop) and a follow up call to check all went well and leaving her direct dial number incase I have any other problems - very impressed!


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## DW58

OvlovMike said:


> 6 years on and my 8 desktop PCs are still going strong, it's all about being appropriate for the job. I've got a bunch of first-gen Core2Duos that are great for using for 'stuff', have been since day dot and run Windows 7 and Office 2010 no bother at all. Got a first-gen Core2Quad that still plays most games at a plenty decent enough rate 5 years on and I've just given my sister a 7 year old laptop that's absolutely plenty for what she needs to do.
> 
> Sorry, the Mac smoke and mirrors bull**** really gets my goat. Don't install freeware **** on your PC, and it won't spit it's dummy out. Go out and do stupid things with a Mac, and it'll grind to a halt too.
> 
> Simple. Really, really simple. If you like value for money, better, expandable hardware and support for just about any piece of software in the world, get yourself a Windows PC. If you crave excessive costs, headaches any time someone asks if you could have a look at X, Y or Z document and want to fit in with the 'hip' crowd, get yourself a Mac.


I note despite your obvious criticism of Macs, you don't mention that you have any experience of them whatsoever. I suspect this is just the standard OvlovMike BS and the usual attempt to put the cat amongst the pigeons


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## m1pui

I have to say, as a mac user, it's been a long time since I've had any file compatibly problems. Perhaps it's the programmes I'm not using, but generally the cross compatibility seems to be there.

The only issue I had, which was mentioned in another thread, was using NTFS formatted drives on my Mac. That was sorted in 5 mins by sourcing and installing an NTFS driver


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## OvlovMike

DW58 said:


> I note despite your obvious criticism of Macs, you don't mention that you have any experience of them whatsoever. I suspect this is just the standard OvlovMike BS and the usual attempt to put the cat amongst the pigeons


I've 15 years supporting a range of machines including Macs and a lot more beyond that. They're beyond irritating in an enterprise environment and I'm sick and tired of 'such and such has sent me a file, what's mspp? What's vsd?' and the likes.

There ARE compatibility issues, there IS a smoke and mirror belief that they're untouchable and it's fed by a fanbase who largely comprise folks who know very little more than a Mac, because once they browsed porn on their PC and got a virus so it must be bad (couldn't be anything to do with idiocy, not at all!).


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## DW58

Gimme a break - so you personally dislike Macs, but judging by many of your posts you dislike anything which receives a degree of popularity here on DW.


OvlovMike set to "Ignore" :thumb:


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## OvlovMike

Missing you already :lol:


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## Gruffs

As far as upgrade ability goes.

RAM is mega easy there is just a panel to unscrew underneath and pull out old RAM/push in new RAM close panel.

Everything else is a bit more difficult.

I love my iMac, it has it's limitations but it just bloody works. i turn it on and there it is.

It's mega.

All our windows PCs have slowly died a horrible and bloated death mostly ****ed by it's own updates.


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## LeadFarmer

OvlovMike said:


> 6 years on and my 8 desktop PCs are still going strong, it's all about being appropriate for the job. I've got a bunch of first-gen Core2Duos that are great for using for 'stuff', have been since day dot and run Windows 7 and Office 2010 no bother at all. Got a first-gen Core2Quad that still plays most games at a plenty decent enough rate 5 years on and I've just given my sister a 7 year old laptop that's absolutely plenty for what she needs to do.
> 
> Sorry, the Mac smoke and mirrors bull**** really gets my goat. Don't install freeware **** on your PC, and it won't spit it's dummy out. Go out and do stupid things with a Mac, and it'll grind to a halt too.
> 
> Simple. Really, really simple. If you like value for money, better, expandable hardware and support for just about any piece of software in the world, get yourself a Windows PC. If you crave excessive costs, headaches any time someone asks if you could have a look at X, Y or Z document and want to fit in with the 'hip' crowd, get yourself a Mac.


So what is it your trying to say exactly?


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## DAN:

Run Mac OS on virtual machine using a Microsoft based computer or Dual boot if you can afford a mac and want windows.


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## LeadFarmer

Ive always had pc's and windows laptops, which have all died slow agonising deaths. This time round i bit the bullet and bought my first ever macbook. Im certainly no apple fanboy and only time will tell how long it lasts, but its just bloomin marvelous to use. A real joy. Wish id made the move soomer.


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## PugIain

Windows PC all day.
Compare my PC which cost £600 to An Apple one for the same money, if indeed you could get one for £600.
There is no way you could get the same spec. It would be a potato, not an Apple.
It's the name you pay for.


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## DW58

PugIain said:


> Windows PC all day.
> Compare my PC which cost £600 to An Apple one for the same money, if indeed you could get one for £600.
> There is no way you could get the same spec. It would be a potato, not an Apple.
> It's the name you pay for.


It's all very well saying that but have you actually owned/used a Mac for and length of time?


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## init6

Its not the name you pay for it's the user experience. A lot of 'technical' people forget that the vast majority of the world are not technical. So while it's easy for techies to swap out a graphics card or mobo on a PC, the rest of the world doesn't care. A lot of people who buy Macs do so BECAUSE they don't have to open the hood. They accept a certain level of performance that meets the needs of the vast majority even though they could get 'better' VFM from a PC.


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## PugIain

DW58 said:


> It's all very well saying that but have you actually owned/used a Mac for and length of time?


I have for about an hour. It was nice in a smooth flashy way.
But theres no way a nice UI and nice looking case can make up for a massive technical deficit.


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## GR33N

CBA to read this whole thread to be honest because I know theres a lot of strong views either way with people trying to discredit each other based on something or nothing.

However I will add my opinions;

Hardware
On the hardware point, ive got an i5 MBP and an i7 Dell XPS, my Macbook is a hell of a lot faster than my XPS will ever be, because OSX isn't as resource heavy as windows seems to be.

Price
Yes they cost more, but they also hold their value better. Most Windows PCs aren't worth jack **** after 5 years, and thats if they still work.


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## jamest

GR33N said:


> Hardware
> On the hardware point, ive got an i5 MBP and an i7 Dell XPS, my Macbook is a hell of a lot faster than my XPS will ever be, because OSX isn't as resource heavy as windows seems to be.
> 
> Price
> Yes they cost more, but they also hold their value better. Most Windows PCs aren't worth jack **** after 5 years, and thats if they still work.


Your hardware point is a software point. It doesn't matter how you want to justify it but the hardware will be better in the Dell. Apple have better driver support for the hardware as the choices are limited. Windows weak point is that it tries to support everything and are reliant on third parties making their drivers work.

At the end of the day, if you can justify the cost and none of the applications you use are Windows specific then by all means look at an iMac. Apple screens tend to be far better than the rubbish which are included in bundles by the likes of Dell/HP etc.

The other positive with Apple devices is that they are holding their values quite well which means if you don't get on with it, you won't have lost as much money and will probably get enough money from the iMac to get yourself a similar spec Windows PC.

To blindly disregard one or the other is rather naive.


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## GR33N

jamest said:


> Your hardware point is a software point. It doesn't matter how you want to justify it but the hardware will be better in the Dell. Apple have better driver support for the hardware as the choices are limited. Windows weak point is that it tries to support everything and are reliant on third parties making their drivers work.
> 
> At the end of the day, if you can justify the cost and none of the applications you use are Windows specific then by all means look at an iMac. Apple screens tend to be far better than the rubbish which are included in bundles by the likes of Dell/HP etc.
> 
> The other positive with Apple devices is that they are holding their values quite well which means if you don't get on with it, you won't have lost as much money and will probably get enough money from the iMac to get yourself a similar spec Windows PC.
> 
> To blindly disregard one or the other is rather naive.


True, maybe I didnt explain my point very well. What I meant is that if you had equal hardware in a a Mac and a Windows based computer, they wouldnt perform the same. As such, I feel Macs need less powerful hardware to yield equal if not better performance.


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## SteveyG

GR33N said:


> True, maybe I didnt explain my point very well. What I meant is that if you had equal hardware in a a Mac and a Windows based computer, they wouldnt perform the same. As such, I feel Macs need less powerful hardware to yield equal if not better performance.


Not sure how true that is though as there are plenty of people on forums complaining about how slow their macbook is at opening applications, sometimes taking minutes to shut down. A lot of the perceived 'slowness' of the Windows OS tends to be people have filled up their hard drive or installed loads of applications in the background. The major downfall of Windows is using a file system which fragments files.



jamest said:


> Apple screens tend to be far better than the rubbish which are included in bundles by the likes of Dell/HP etc.


If you take a laptop of similar price though they seem to be quite comparable. The Dell XPS laptops at the same price point have high res screens. I think most people unfairly compare a cheapy laptop from a high street store with Macbooks.


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## jamest

SteveyG said:


> If you take a laptop of similar price though they seem to be quite comparable. The Dell XPS laptops at the same price point have high res screens. I think most people unfairly compare a cheapy laptop from a high street store with Macbooks.


Sorry I was only referring to the desktops. I haven't had any experience with any high-end Windows based laptops for a good two or three years. The old Sony Vaio's used to be equal but a lot of the Acer and HP laptop screens were really quite poor compared to the Apple screens at the time.


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## jamest

GR33N said:


> True, maybe I didnt explain my point very well. What I meant is that if you had equal hardware in a a Mac and a Windows based computer, they wouldnt perform the same. As such, I feel Macs need less powerful hardware to yield equal if not better performance.


Throwing a V8 in to a Ford Fiesta may sound good on paper but might not translate to a faster car compared to say a Fiesta with a good moderate V6.

I think the major performance issues with Windows based PCs are down to drivers and bloatware.

I have a relatively good (albeit 2-3 year hardware) PC running Windows 7. It is quicker at more tasks than my friends Macs and is generally more responsive. But I know what I am doing, I don't install 100 different screensavers from various sites so you would expect it to run well.

The other thing with Windows is that it does slow down over time (the better it is looked after the longer this will take) but this also affects OSX but not as much.


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## GR33N

jamest said:


> Throwing a V8 in to a Ford Fiesta may sound good on paper but might not translate to a faster car compared to say a Fiesta with a good moderate V6.
> 
> I think the major performance issues with Windows based PCs are down to drivers and bloatware.
> 
> I have a relatively good (albeit 2-3 year hardware) PC running Windows 7. It is quicker at more tasks than my friends Macs and is generally more responsive. But I know what I am doing, I don't install 100 different screensavers from various sites so you would expect it to run well.
> 
> The other thing with Windows is that it does slow down over time (the better it is looked after the longer this will take) but this also affects OSX but not as much.


Oh I totally agree that most people don't maintain their computers as well as they should/could whether it be Windows or Mac, however I think Macs need less preventative maintenance to keep them running at a higher speed.

Ive got no issues with Windows or OSX to be honest, but every time I go back to Windows I cant help feel a pressing need to get away from it and back a Mac. Maybe its just more personal preference at the end of the day.


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## Ric

PugIain said:


> It's the name you pay for.


Yeah?

So it's not the precision milled aluminium cases? you'd rather have a ugly moulded plastic piece of junk

And it's not the amazing operating system build on-top of the most reliable system there is?

Or neither the excellent innovation like the retina display? you'd rather have a 1152x768 display on a 15" laptop?

Or even the excellent user experience from store to box opening to setup and 5 years usage?

Of course it's just the name, nothing else, try owning one before throwing that sort of comment.


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## DW58

PugIain said:


> I have for about an hour. It was nice in a smooth flashy way.
> But theres no way a nice UI and nice looking case can make up for a massive technical deficit.


Take the blinkers off, look around you


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## Alex_225

OvlovMike said:


> Don't install freeware **** on your PC, and it won't spit it's dummy out. Go out and do stupid things with a Mac, and it'll grind to a halt too.


Oddly enough I do know how to use/fix/support a PC and it's use rather well as it's what's I've been paid to do for the last 11 years. It's not 'freeware ****' that is a PC's problem.

We have very locked down PCs at work, all they have updated is the antivirus software and the usual Windows patches and minior updates. After 3-4 years the hardware is binned, usually the PCs are running slower and slower yet they have no freeware or unauthorised software installed.

Part of the problem with all PCs is Windows, it simply doesn't manage hardware that well and that seems to be where the Apple OS does. To give you an idea, one of the guys i work with has an Apple laptop. When running the standard OS the battery life is indicated at about 9 hours, he installs Windows and you literally see the battery indicator drop down to 2 hours. Windows is the achilles heel of PCs in terms of longevity.

Thing is I'm no geeky hater or either, I used to deem Apple products as a fashion accessory. The iPhone just appeared to be some poncy designer phone which I ignored until I actually used an iPhone 4, it impressed me even though I wasn't open minded to it. I have one now and it does everything and more than I'd expect. It appears that an iMac does the same.


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## DW58




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## init6

OvlovMike said:


> Don't install freeware **** on your PC, and it won't spit it's dummy out.


Are you saying that you have to pay for every piece of software on a PC or else it won't work? That kind of blows the PC value for money argument out of the water


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## DW58

Interestingly much software available for the Mac platform is available for very little or no charge. There's a huge variety of useful and innovative apps available from the Mac App Store, along with a huge number of widgets, all of which are tested and cleared for viruses and malware*.


































* Before the resident MacHater/disruption service pipes up - yes, we know there have been a few instances of infected Apps, but they're few and far between


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## jamest

Alex_225 said:


> We have very locked down PCs at work, all they have updated is the antivirus software and the usual Windows patches and minior updates. After 3-4 years the hardware is binned, usually the PCs are running slower and slower yet they have no freeware or unauthorised software installed.


Networks cause more slow downs that the software on the PCs. Get a PC (Mac or Windows) and it will be faster if it isn't having to scout around the network for different printers/computers. Both Windows and OSX both suffer from bloat and will slow down over time, this is more pronounced with Windows. (for the reasons that follow).



Alex_225 said:


> Part of the problem with all PCs is Windows, it simply doesn't manage hardware that well and that seems to be where the Apple OS does. To give you an idea, one of the guys i work with has an Apple laptop. When running the standard OS the battery life is indicated at about 9 hours, he installs Windows and you literally see the battery indicator drop down to 2 hours. Windows is the achilles heel of PCs in terms of longevity.


How could you jump to that conclusion?

Yes Windows doesn't "manage" hardware that well, Windows doesn't do this, it is mostly down to the drivers from third party manufacturers. Windows/Microsoft doesn't have that much control over it and a lot of third party developers will throw out any old rubbish as long as the basic functionality is there. Apple on the other hand have a very closed system and they control everything. Everything is refined to work on select hardware.

You can think of an Apple computer as a super car expensive and does the same job as any other car but looks pretty and has been built for a task. A Windows based PC is more of a 4x4, it works on the road and does a pretty good job of it, but it can handle more than just a flat road.



Alex_225 said:


> Thing is I'm no geeky hater or either, I used to deem Apple products as a fashion accessory. The iPhone just appeared to be some poncy designer phone which I ignored until I actually used an iPhone 4, it impressed me even though I wasn't open minded to it. I have one now and it does everything and more than I'd expect. It appears that an iMac does the same.


The iPhone 4 is nothing special, it really isn't (no phones are stand-out phones). There are plenty of Android based phones especially the newer phones which are better hardware wise and arguably software wise and Apple are now playing catch-up. Yet there are plenty of people who will deny it.

You really do have to give Apple some appreciation for their marketing. They have released products which aren't really revolutionary but have created a cult following behind it. They market these new fantastic ideas which have been done before such as Facetime (which originally came out as only being able to do it over Wi-Fi) which was apparently new to mobile phones, but some Sony Ericsson phones were doing it over 3G long before the iPhone.

Some of the arguments on this thread for either Mac or PC are ****-poor.


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## jamest

DW58 said:


> Interestingly much software available for the Mac platform is available for very little or no charge. There's a huge variety of useful and innovative apps available from the Mac App Store, along with a huge number of widgets, all of which are tested and cleared for viruses and malware*.


And also a large amount of applications that have been rejected from the App Store because they compete with Apple or they don't fit Apple's strict guidelines. For a lot of people this doesn't matter. Others like freedom.

Android and iOS have gone about the same thing in different ways the same way Microsoft went a different way with Windows than Apple did with OS.


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## Derekh929

Well i have an imac and love it for my photo's but lack of compatability with ipad with photo's and the like is annoying and i thought the photo part was great untill i realised that the photo shop basic did the same, but i think double the price of same spec , but keep the box and it will retain a good amount of it's value and it uses low power stunning screen and very quite, but key board and mouse annoying if you work on others machine during the week like me, i think it's a luxury , and i like it but wife dosenot, get a wireless mouse if you want to keep your sanity and don't waste money on track pad and business can discount to 10% easy


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## Alex_225

jamest said:


> How could you jump to that conclusion?
> 
> Yes Windows doesn't "manage" hardware that well, Windows doesn't do this, it is mostly down to the drivers from third party manufacturers. Windows/Microsoft doesn't have that much control over it and a lot of third party developers will throw out any old rubbish as long as the basic functionality is there. Apple on the other hand have a very closed system and they control everything. Everything is refined to work on select hardware.


Well I'm sure Microsoft have the ability to control what third party drivers are used etc. If Apple can do it then surely Microsoft can? You do get more control over a PC but in terms of actual use if you don't want to get too techy then do you need that control?

As for my conclusion about how Windows appears to manage hardware better. I am concluding it from my experience of running a Mac OS on a Macbook, giving a 9 hour battery life to the same hardware running Windows. The laptop physically warmed up whilst running Windows and the battery life dropped significantly.

As for networks slowing a PC down, I appreciate that as well but also every PC I have ever used has slowed down and they have not been networked. They've also had minimal useage in terms of simply using the web, editing the odd photo and storing music. That's it.

I've never said the iPhone was the only great phone what I'm saying is that it does and has always done (for me) everything I've expected.

Believe me I've never been an Apple fanboy, I've actually made a consious effort to not get into the fashion of Apple products. Yet those I've experienced have been good and I've ended up using them myself.

I dislike the trendiness of Apple products but even I can't deny thaty do what they're meant too.


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## DW58

jamest said:


> And also a large amount of applications that have been rejected from the App Store because they compete with Apple or they don't fit Apple's strict guidelines. For a lot of people this doesn't matter. Others like freedom.
> 
> Android and iOS have gone about the same thing in different ways the same way Microsoft went a different way with Windows than Apple did with OS.


I can't argue with that - I'm perfectly happy with the way Apple operates, Apple provides me with an integrated package which Microsoft and the various makers of PCs can't - I know you can't/won't agree with that, but please just accept that Apple has a huge fan-base.

I tried Android, I ran an HTC phone for a year before getting my iPhone - I disliked Android intensely, disliked the lack of continuity/standardisation of the apps, yet after a couple of years of being an iPhone/iPad hater/doubter I took to both like a duck to water. In my opinion (note lack of dogma) iOS knocks Android into a ****ed hat.

It would be a strange world if we all used/liked the same things. As we're on a motoring forum, to me the MacBook is an Audi A5/A7 and MacBook Air is a Golf R, whilst most Windows-based laptops equate to Focus/Astra, with the little netbooks more like the Corsa/Fiesta.

It's nice to be able to choose - I used Windows-based PCs 1988-2011 (Windows 2; 3; 3.1; 3.11; 95; 98; 2000; XP; Vista; 7 - avoided the truly awful "me") and to be honest had trouble with every one, but the least of all from Windows 2000. I'm now very happy to be on Mac OS X 10.8 having also used 10.6 Snow Leopard and 10.7 Lion.

I'm not a PC


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## Dizzle77

What's better?.....PC or Mac?.......there's only one way to find out.......FIGHT


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## Russ and his BM

I spent £1200 on a pc in 2003. Having reloaded windoze from scratch more than a couple of times, I binned it after three years when it ceased to function. I then spent £950 on a 20" 2.0 ghz iMac in 2006. It still works as well as it did when I first took it out of the box.

That's six happy, glitch-free years.

But, I need 8mb RAM to run the latest OSX (mountain lion) and my iMac will only take 4mb maximum. So there, eventually, the hardware can't keep up with the latest software. But all in all, I don't need to upgrade to ml, so for me it's no biggy. Eventually, I'll replace it with a more modern iMac with an ssd etc, but for now it does me fine.

I added a basic MacBook to the mix, and an ipad2. Got an iPod, obviously; the wife has an iPhone 4s and an iPod shuffle. I'll be investing in an iPhone when the new one arrives. I might pick up apple tv, but am really pleased with my humax that already does dlna stuff, tho it's a bit clunky.

So you can see that because it all integrates so beautifully, it can be a slippery slope!

Glw your decision!


----------



## SteveyG

Alex_225 said:


> As for my conclusion about how Windows appears to manage hardware better. I am concluding it from my experience of running a Mac OS on a Macbook, giving a 9 hour battery life to the same hardware running Windows. The laptop physically warmed up whilst running Windows and the battery life dropped significantly.


I suspect Windows was busy doing stuff to drop battery life down to a couple of hours. After installing 7 on a new PC I built the other week, it took about 5 restarts and a few hours worth of updates in the background before it calmed down. Windows idles at basically 0% which wouldn't make a laptop hot.

We get 10 hours battery on the netbook which runs XP, and 5 hours on my i7 laptop when I boot it up with Redhat or Windows 7, and Redhat definitely idles at 0 load.


----------



## PugIain

carbonangel said:


> Yeah?
> 
> So it's not the precision milled aluminium cases? you'd rather have a ugly moulded plastic piece of junk
> 
> And it's not the amazing operating system build on-top of the most reliable system there is?
> 
> Or neither the excellent innovation like the retina display? you'd rather have a 1152x768 display on a 15" laptop?
> 
> Or even the excellent user experience from store to box opening to setup and 5 years usage?
> 
> Of course it's just the name, nothing else, try owning one before throwing that sort of comment.


All that is worth 12/1300 quid is it? As i bet thats what a mac of similar spec to my pc would cost. which incidentally isnt an ugly piece of plastic crap.


----------



## Gruffs

I am not computer savvy beyond the basic. All I know is I've had PCs since 2001. Every single one has slowed and died. The last one was a £750 laptop and a £1500 desktop for graphics use. 

I've had one iMac and it's not let me down yet. 

What else am I supposed to base my opinion on?

I had Nokia, SE, Samsung, Motorola phones. All of which I tried to use with a pc to backup my business contacts etc. iTunes and the iPhone made that simple. 

As a user and only a user, they just work and work well. 

My only gripe is the software eventually renders the hardware obsolete. My wife's 3G is soooooo slow. But, it still works.


----------



## Gruffs

I am not computer savvy beyond the basic. All I know is I've had PCs since 2001. Every single one has slowed and died. The last one was a £750 laptop and a £1500 desktop for graphics use. 

I've had one iMac and it's not let me down yet. 

What else am I supposed to base my opinion on?

I had Nokia, SE, Samsung, Motorola phones. All of which I tried to use with a pc to backup my business contacts etc. iTunes and the iPhone made that simple. 

As a user and only a user, they just work and work well. 

My only gripe is the software eventually renders the hardware obsolete. My wife's 3G is soooooo slow. But, it still works.


----------



## kh904

I can't comment on imac's except that my brother has one for his music producing.

I'v had my pc for 9 years - just an off-the-shelf £350 e-machine from pc-world. Not much has gone wrong with it tbh. Only had to replace the CD-RW drive after 7 years, and just added RAM and an external hard-drive (the internal is only 80 gig).
Still running on XP!

Every couple of years i back up my files and do a clean install as it does fill up with junk.

I'm no computer expert but i think it's the windows & software programs that let's it down as they seem too bloated. 
Also the poor testing & frequent updates required, security holes etc, but as the imacs get more popular so will viruses etc.

I think it's a trade off - sure the imac's look good, hold their value better, doesn't need tinkering about as much as a pc, but they cost more, & i'm guessing they are more restrictive/limited in terms of programs? like apple products now seem to be - but that's probably what makes them run better

PC's are cheaper, upgrading hardware is easy. better for gaming i think, more freeware/open-source & software easily available (not sure on the Apple).

I'd think about what you are going to use it for.
I just use mine to go on the internet, watch films, music & use it for work (so excel, word).


----------



## Guitarjon

You mentioned your pc is 5 years old and your ready for a new one. Well my mac is 8 years old and going strong. Not had a single problem wrong with it. Previously a decent laptop would last me about 4-5 years granted they are cheaper but as with everything you et what you pay for. There are still somethings I really miss from a windows pc though which are annoying but at the end of the day I can always trust my mac. The last windows laptop I have is a works one and was purchased brand new 2 years ago. It's highly unreliable big, bulky massive spec but it just doesn't work.


----------



## SteveyG

Guitarjon said:


> You mentioned your pc is 5 years old and your ready for a new one. Well my mac is 8 years old and going strong.


An 8 year old Mac is still going to be just as out of date in terms of hardware as an 8 year old PC! I have an 7 year old laptop which still works fine for web browsing etc, but you'd never run any modern games on it, but then you wouldn't be able to on an 8 year old Mac either. If you bought a new Mac now, you'd see how slow your old one was! The OS cannot make up for shortfalls in hardware no matter what you think. Try playing HD H264 video files on it and you'll see that I mean!



Gruffs said:


> I've had one iMac and it's not let me down yet.


You're iMac just double posted. Did you get impatient and have to click post twice? :lol: 



Gruffs said:


> My only gripe is the software eventually renders the hardware obsolete.


This is basically the fundamental issue which makes PCs run slow or go out of date. If you put a fresh install of Windows 98 on an old PC it'll run super quick, and your 14 year old hardware will really shine! But people expect to be able to install new software on their PCs which isn't suitable for their hardware and it ends up running really slow.


----------



## IanG

Are my 6 year old iMac or 5 year old MBP as fast as it was when i bought them........No they aren't but they still do what I want such as a bit of photo editing and web/email use etc. 

If I want to play games I'll use the 360 or PS3

I've got a 5 year old XP laptop at work and that's no slower than the MBP and it gets used for a lot more diverse and intensive work.

But that aside I much prefer the Mac experience


----------



## m1pui

SteveyG said:


> This is basically the fundamental issue which makes PCs run slow or go out of date. *If you put a fresh install of Windows 98 on an old PC it'll run super quick, and your 14 year old hardware will really shine!* But people expect to be able to install new software on their PCs which isn't suitable for their hardware and it ends up running really slow.


I think a lot of people just don't realise how quickly and far processor power, as well as programme requirements, has moved on over the years and are quick to forget what they thought was acceptable/fast not all that long ago.

I mean, do processors really slow down or lose speed over time?

My 1.33 G4 iBook running OSX Tiger, iTunes, Office, etc was brilliantly fast when I first got it and it would run equally as fast today if I installed the same versions of software on it (also if I still owned the iBook :lol as I had then. But, just before I sold it, I did a full/clean (and updated) install of Tiger and iTunes and it was ok, but not fast. It was fine doing one thing at a time, but if I wanted to update an iPod AND surf the net simultaneously it was very stuttery.

Equally, a friend of mine had a Sony VAIO laptop with a (possibly 1.5 or 1.7) Centrino processor.It must be a good 8 or so years ago, but I remember when he bought it and I helped him set it up and it was plenty smooth and quick enough. About 18 months ago it was properly struggling. At least 10 mins from switch on to actually being able to use it, freezing, crashing, etc. and he asked if I could sort it out. Again I did a clean install of Windows XP and the basics of what he needed, iTunes, Office, Firefox, Avast and I think that was about it but I didn't install all of the unnecessary Sony software. It now worked perfectly, booted up relatively quickly but, similar to my iBook, it quickly got bogged down running current/updated versions of software if you tried to multi-task.

EDIT:
I suppose a very good example of this is anyone that's owned a netbook and/or has installed an nLite version of Windows on their machine. I had a 800mhz Asus one that came with XP preinstalled and wasn't particularly slow for what it was. But once I installed nLite Windows on it it ran seriously (almost SSD) quickly when booting up


----------



## GJM

DW58 said:


> [*]Build quality & great looks
> [*]Reliability
> [*]User friendly interface
> [*]Longevity
> [*]Fantastic integration
> [*]Great selection of hardware/software
> [*]Quality experience


Was an iphone hater..but once played around can see the worth.

However not a mac hater but have tried and can't say they have won me round...anything but!

Build quality & great looks -* Looks maybe but didn't think that well built*
Reliability - *That was reason for moving but had plenty hassle, so wasn't for me*
User friendly interface - *Didn't find user friendly*
Longevity - *Cant comment as never had long enough but would be in far worse state than a quality notebook vs macbook*
Fantastic integration - *Again probs with office docs, other things would not run*
Great selection of hardware/software - *used to have probs, more mainstream now I guess*
Quality experience - *not from me*

So convince me, I like something to be very compatible and work out the box, when had mine all got advised to do was run paralles or something or load on windows anyway etc.....kinda defeats the purpose?

Style over substance was my verdict


----------



## GR33N

GJM said:


> Was an iphone hater..but once played around can see the worth.
> 
> However not a mac hater but have tried and can't say they have won me round...anything but!
> 
> Build quality & great looks -* Looks maybe but didn't think that well built*
> Reliability - *That was reason for moving but had plenty hassle, so wasn't for me*
> User friendly interface - *Didn't find user friendly*
> Longevity - *Cant comment as never had long enough but would be in far worse state than a quality notebook vs macbook*
> Fantastic integration - *Again probs with office docs, other things would not run*
> Great selection of hardware/software - *used to have probs, more mainstream now I guess*
> Quality experience - *not from me*
> 
> So convince me, I like something to be very compatible and work out the box, when had mine all got advised to do was run paralles or something or load on windows anyway etc.....kinda defeats the purpose?
> 
> Style over substance was my verdict


but you almost have to buy into a system, you cant really moan that they aren't compatible with Windows so they/re no use. You wouldn't accrue a tonne of parts of a Vauxhall, then complain they didn't fit when you bought a Volkswagen for example.

People will ask whats the point of buying into the Mac system, but thats only because they already have all their data in a Windows friendly format because thats what 70-80% of people are used to using.

and this isnt so much directly aimed at you mate, as it is for most people who read this thread :thumb:


----------



## PugIain

My only gripe Vis Apple PC' is cost.
Ive just had a look on the Apple website. The cheapest Desktop is over £2k.
Why? The spec isnt a match on a decent Windows PC.
http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro
There we go.The cheapest is on the left. Now in my eyes that aint great, certainly no match for mine. Infact Id go as far as saying that is pretty poor. Thats a £399 special in PC World. So where does the £2k come in? The name? Surely the OS isnt worth £1500?
The Imac are cheaper but come with even less spec.Although you do get a flashy screen.


----------



## DW58

Nonsense - the Mac Pro is intended as a professional work station and is not aimed at the home market, hence the huge amount of expansion space etc.

The iMac range are Apple's desktops and they start at £999, or £879 if you qualify for academic discount. If you're going to join the "let's slag apple" fraternity, do try and get your facts right first.

Buy a £399 PC from PC World if you like, but I wouldn't.


----------



## PugIain

Erm fair enough. Brainwashed much?
Ive got loads of expansion space but mine didnt cost over 2k.


----------



## SteveyG

DW58 said:


> The iMac range are Apple's desktops and they start at £999, or £879 if you qualify for academic discount. If you're going to join the "let's slag apple" fraternity, do try and get your facts right first.


Still more than an XPS though! You can't deny the premium price for a mid-range product.


----------



## DW58

No, I'm not brainwashed. If you read my previous posts you'll see that I used Windows PCs from the late eighties until last year. I chose to change to Mac of my own accord and for sound reasons, cost was not one of them.

Clearly you have little idea about Macs other than your admitted one hour or so of experience plus obvious prejudice, so please leave the discussion to those who actually know what they're talking about so tht the OP can get an honest answer to his questions.


----------



## DW58

SteveyG said:


> Still more than an XPS though! You can't deny the premium price for a mid-range product.


There's no reason to deny it. I'm perfectly happy with the cost of Mac computers. I assume you're talking Dell - Been there done that, buy cheap pay dear, wouldn't touch them with a barge pole again.

As with my previous, let's try and keep this on topic and answer the OP's questions.


----------



## PugIain

DW58 said:


> Clearly you have little idea about Macs other than your admitted one hour or so of experience plus obvious prejudice, so please leave the discussion to those who actually know what they're talking about so tht the OP can get an honest answer to his questions.


The topic is Mac v Pc...
I use a PC. I' ve used a Mac. Therefore I have opinions on both.
My main point as you've discovered is the low bang for your buck of an Apple PC v A non Apple PC.
Which still hasnt been thoroughly explained. WHY IS A MAC WITH ITS LOWER SPEC MORE THAN A NON APPLE COMPUTER?
All I can see is either Apple rip you off for low spec gear or the rig is cheap and the OS is hideously expensive.
I can't see the problem with such a simple question. Unless Im getting spoken to like an idiot for not being in the gang?


----------



## SteveyG

DW58 said:


> I assume you're talking Dell - Been there done that, buy cheap pay dear, wouldn't touch them with a barge pole again.


So you're unfairly comparing against a cheap PC? If you looked at a comparatively priced magnesium cased XPS or Alienware, you might be able to make a credible comment.

The only thing you're paying extra for is the Apple badge and the Apple OS.

If you're going to join the "let's slag PCs" fraternity, do try and get your facts right first.



DW58 said:


> As with my previous, let's try and keep this on topic and answer the OP's questions.


He asked about the cost aspect.


----------



## DW58

What ever - I'm quite happy that I have got my facts right.


----------



## GR33N

SteveyG said:


> So you're unfairly comparing against a cheap PC? If you looked at a comparatively priced magnesium cased XPS or Alienware, you might be able to make a credible comment.
> 
> The only thing you're paying extra for is the Apple badge and the Apple OS.
> 
> If you're going to join the "let's slag PCs" fraternity, do try and get your facts right first.
> 
> He asked about the cost aspect.


I agree you need to compare like for like, isnt the Macbook classed as a business laptop at the end of the day? However my XPS (although not poor in build quality) is not even close to my Macbook and the Alienware laptops are bulky, run very hot and to me look a bit brick like.

The keyboard backlight with the changing colours is pretty cool though


----------



## PugIain

DW58 said:


> What ever - I'm quite happy that I have got my facts right.


So you don't know then! 
Besides,define "business". Other than fooling people in to paying 2k for a PC with the space to stick a bit more ram on the mobo and another HD or optical media drive in the case.
I could use my pc for business and I don't need to expand it to do so and Im pretty sure whatever you definition of business is, my £650 windows pc would beat that mac off the bat.


----------



## SteveyG

GR33N said:


> I agree you need to compare like for like, isnt the Macbook classed as a business laptop at the end of the day? However my XPS (although not poor in build quality) is not even close to my Macbook and the Alienware laptops are bulky, run very hot and to me look a bit brick like.
> 
> The keyboard backlight with the changing colours is pretty cool though


For the win:


----------



## GR33N

SteveyG said:


> For the win:


yeah I love that, even more than my Macbook Pro backlit keyboard :argie:


----------



## DW58

PugIain said:


> So you don't know then!
> Besides,define "business". Other than fooling people in to paying 2k for a PC with the space to stick a bit more ram on the mobo and another HD or optical media drive in the case.
> I could use my pc for business and I don't need to expand it to do so and Im pretty sure whatever you definition of business is, my £650 windows pc would beat that mac off the bat.


I have absolutely no idea what you're rambling on about - who said anything about "business"?

I wasn't fooled into anything, I was sick of software and hardware which was unreliable, didn't work as advertised and poorly made hardware. The fact that I chose to switch to Mac was entirely my decision, I knew what it was going to cost me, and what's more I don't regret it in the slightest.

You can bump your gums all you like, and buy as many second-rate PCs from PC World as you wish, it won't make the slightest bit of difference to Apple or to me.

The OP will make up his own mind regardless of the "Mac Haters", and luckily you won't make the slightest difference to those who are happy with what they use.


----------



## DW58

PugIain said:


> So you don't know then!
> Besides,define "business". Other than fooling people in to paying 2k for a PC with the space to stick a bit more ram on the mobo and another HD or optical media drive in the case.
> I could use my pc for business and I don't need to expand it to do so and Im pretty sure whatever you definition of business is, my £650 windows pc would beat that mac off the bat.


I have absolutely no idea what you're rambling on about - who said anything about "business"?

I wasn't fooled into anything, I was sick of software and hardware which was unreliable, didn't work as advertised and poorly made hardware. The fact that I chose to switch to Mac was entirely my decision, I knew what it was going to cost me, and what's more I don't regret it in the slightest.

You can bump your gums all you like, and buy as many second-rate PCs from PC World as you wish, it won't make the slightest bit of difference to Apple or to me.

The OP will make up his own mind regardless of the "Mac Haters", and luckily you won't make the slightest difference to those who are happy with what they use.


----------



## GJM

GR33N said:


> but you almost have to buy into a system, you cant really moan that they aren't compatible with Windows so they/re no use. You wouldn't accrue a tonne of parts of a Vauxhall, then complain they didn't fit when you bought a Volkswagen for example.
> 
> People will ask whats the point of buying into the Mac system, but thats only because they already have all their data in a Windows friendly format because thats what 70-80% of people are used to using.
> 
> and this isnt so much directly aimed at you mate, as it is for most people who read this thread :thumb:


I did buy into it, there were several compatablity issues with 3rd parties and the only way around them seemed to be by using Windows.

So yes, you don't or shouldn#t buy into Apple to find you need to run with windows or parallels whatever they called it


----------



## jamest

DW58 said:


> Nonsense - the Mac Pro is intended as a professional work station and is not aimed at the home market, *hence the huge amount of expansion space etc*.


Are you serious? Virtually all PC's have space for more "expansion" in RAM and hard drives. That can't be a selling point and hardly "professional".

But doing the same spec Mac Pro as a custom built Windows 7 Ultimate PC (with a good case/mouse/keyboard as is offered by the Mac Pro) the Mac comes out at £200 more expensive which isn't really that much.


----------



## DW58

I meant in relation to the iMac, the normal desktop offered by Apple, surely you can see that.

This thread is going the same way as all others - it's developing into an Apple Hatefest, rather sad really.


----------



## jimbo1

I have used macs for many years and am now using windows 7 on a laptop because after years of service my imac is playing up. 

Go to a store and use both and see which one you are more comfortable with. Typing on a mac keyboard vs a pc is like driving a bentley vs a lada.

The reason I think macs are dearer is that a lot of $$ goes into R&D and all (maybe most) prototypes are made inhouse at Apple HQ, so they get the cnc machines in, and get everything they way they want before it gets close to the factory for production.

PC's are what they are - bung it in a case and ship them out.

If I had the choice???? Mac all the way.


----------



## jamest

DW58 said:


> I meant in relation to the iMac, the normal desktop offered by Apple, surely you can see that.
> 
> This thread is going the same way as all others - it's developing into an Apple Hatefest, rather sad really.


No I didn't see it that way and by the looks of it others didn't.

And I would say this thread as are all other similar threads are an Apple "lovefest".

I personally hate both.


----------



## DW58

Luckily it's a free decision for us to make, I bought Apple because I was thoroughly dissatisified after years of Windows use, now I'm a happy Apple user - the choice was mine and mine alone.

I think we should agree to differ on our opinions.


----------



## Alex_225

JamesST I know the exact Apple lovers you're talking about mate, I work with a bloke I could happily beat to death with his MacBook, Does my head in with his smugness!

What I can't deny is that some of their stuff is genuinely good and over time I've ended up with a few of their products and am happy with them. Even though I know that their rivals are easily up there with them in terms of phones and tablets.



SteveyG said:


> I suspect Windows was busy doing stuff to drop battery life down to a couple of hours. After installing 7 on a new PC I built the other week, it took about 5 restarts and a few hours worth of updates in the background before it calmed down. Windows idles at basically 0% which wouldn't make a laptop hot.
> 
> We get 10 hours battery on the netbook which runs XP, and 5 hours on my i7 laptop when I boot it up with Redhat or Windows 7, and Redhat definitely idles at 0 load.


That's exactly my thinking on it mate, windows is sitting there running god knows that processes which in turn zaps the battery life :-(


----------



## PugIain

DW58 said:


> I have absolutely no idea what you're rambling on about - who said anything about "business"?


Ahem.



DW58 said:


> Nonsense - the Mac Pro is intended as a professional work station and is not aimed at the home market.


Surely "professional" is "business" related?


----------



## GJM

DW58 said:


> I meant in relation to the iMac, the normal desktop offered by Apple, surely you can see that.
> 
> This thread is going the same way as all others - it's developing into an Apple Hatefest, rather sad really.


Not from me, I wanted for it to be all I was told about, all I heard others going on about....it never turned out that way on a few counts.

I'm not a PC lover or a Mac hater, just want a machine that can do what I ask of it and Mac failed on that count.

Skimming through I've seen a fair bit a hate towards the PC and comments indicating Dell are cheap and nasty...I've found the opposite.

Guess like my Karcher washer, the punter on here buys the £50 Tesco special and it breaks then calls them crap....probably the same with Dell.

Mind you I have my doubts about how people use washers in general

I bought a decent Karcher and it's been well used (correctly), still going after over a decade with NO maintainence.

Also bought a Latitude D820 back in the day, it's been round the block and round the world and it's still sat here looking close to the way it was delivered orignially and it never missed a beat and very rarely crashed.


----------



## SteveyG

jimbo1 said:


> Typing on a mac keyboard vs a pc is like driving a bentley vs a lada.


 WTF? You're comparing a single Mac keyboard to what exactly? There's thousands of different keyboards out there, have you personally tried all of them to qualify that comment?



jimbo1 said:


> The reason I think macs are dearer is that a lot of $$ goes into R&D and all (maybe most) prototypes are made inhouse at Apple HQ, so they get the cnc machines in, and get everything they way they want before it gets close to the factory for production.


Again, BS comment. Some PCs are made to a price and will use cheap parts, others are made with premium parts. If you compare a premium PC with casework that has to be machined and whatever else, it's still cheaper than a comparable spec Mac.



GJM said:


> Guess like my Karcher washer, the punter on here buys the £50 Tesco special and it breaks then calls them crap....probably the same with Dell.
> 
> Mind you I have my doubts about how people use washers in general
> 
> I bought a decent Karcher and it's been well used (correctly), still going after over a decade with NO maintainence.
> 
> Also bought a Latitude D820 back in the day, it's been round the block and round the world and it's still sat here looking close to the way it was delivered orignially and it never missed a beat and very rarely crashed.


EXACTLY.

The choice between a PC and Mac should only really be based on whether you already have Apple products, whether you don't have any software or hardware with compatibility issues and whether or not you get on with the OS and whether you want to pay the extra premium. People comparing the build quality are not really making valid points because you can buy laptops or PCs that are built from equally good or better parts than Macs are. People who resort to those kind of comments are the kinds of people that sound like they're trying to justify their purchase by making sweeping statements without knowing the facts.



DW58 said:


> This thread is going the same way as all others - it's developing into an Apple Hatefest, rather sad really.


Not really an Apple hatefest. I have no issues with Apple, but I do have issues with Apple users who compare their computer to a PC world special.


----------



## GR33N

GJM said:


> I did buy into it, there were several compatablity issues with 3rd parties and the only way around them seemed to be by using Windows.
> 
> So yes, you don't or shouldn#t buy into Apple to find you need to run with windows or parallels whatever they called it


Im presuming you're talking about specialist software packages that wont run on OSX? I know there are a few I use that cannot be run on OSX but I have no issues running Windows in VMWare for these occasions.

You cant expect a company that sells a small number of licenses for a software package to spend time developing it for OSX when they are unlikely to make any gains from it. Again this depends exactly on what software and 3rd party compatibility issues you had.


----------



## GR33N

SteveyG said:


> WTF? You're comparing a single Mac keyboard to what exactly? There's thousands of different keyboards out there, have you personally tried all of them to qualify that comment?


You don't need to try everyone, the Apple keyboards are as near to perfect as is possible IMO. Absolutely solid, no spring around the keys, brilliant spacing, smooth and precise movement on the keys etc

I can type a damn site faster on my Macbook than I can on any other computer I've every owned, this also includes an iMac i had many moons ago.


----------



## eddie bullit

Interesting to read this as I'm contemplating going over to Mac. Had a little play on one and seems a decent OS. Is there anything they can't do as opposed to a windows machine? IPhone and iPad have their limitations so what about Mac? 
The appeal to me is the build quality and the ease of use..I hope. Tired of my pc constantly needing updates.
They look smart as well!
Edd.


----------



## SteveyG

eddie bullit said:


> Interesting to read this as I'm contemplating going over to Mac. Had a little play on one and seems a decent OS. Is there anything they can't do as opposed to a windows machine? IPhone and iPad have their limitations so what about Mac?
> The appeal to me is the build quality and the ease of use..I hope. Tired of my pc constantly needing updates.
> They look smart as well!
> Edd.


You'll be able to do most things fine. If you use any particular software or hardware though you want to check out compatibility first. I have some dev tools and a soundcard which won't work on linux or iOS even using a VMware or windows emulation.


----------



## jamest

eddie bullit said:


> Interesting to read this as I'm contemplating going over to Mac. Had a little play on one and seems a decent OS. Is there anything they can't do as opposed to a windows machine? IPhone and iPad have their limitations so what about Mac?
> The appeal to me is the build quality and the ease of use..I hope. Tired of my pc constantly needing updates.
> They look smart as well!
> Edd.


If you just browse web, do spreadsheets, emails etc then you won't have any issues.

If you use any special software you should check to make sure it is available for Mac or an alternative that you can use. Or you will need to fall back to Windows in Parallels or VMWare.

As for updates:


----------



## m1pui

eddie bullit said:


> Interesting to read this as I'm contemplating going over to Mac. Had a little play on one and seems a decent OS. Is there anything they can't do as opposed to a windows machine? IPhone and iPad have their limitations so what about Mac?
> The appeal to me is the build quality and the ease of use..I hope. Tired of my pc constantly needing updates.
> They look smart as well!
> Edd.


It's not really helpful asking what are the limitations as everything has limitations and what you use it for might come nowhere near that.

You should ask yourself or say what you need/want your machine to do and then work out which, if either, would fall short.


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## DW58

jamest said:


> If you just browse web, do spreadsheets, emails etc then you won't have any issues.
> 
> If you use any special software you should check to make sure it is available for Mac or an alternative that you can use. Or you will need to fall back to Windows in Parallels or VMWare.
> 
> As for updates:


Actually the new Mac OS X 10.8 mountain Lion upgrade is only £12 

I currently use Parallels 7 to run Windows software, but in retrospect I may have been better with VMWare Fusion. All of my peripherals which I had pre-mac work fine with the Mac.

Besides my MBP/iPad 2/iPhone 4, there is another iPhone 4 plus four PCs in the household, we don't have any issues transferring files around, e.g. MS Office files tranfer Windows -> Mac -> Windows with no problem, all photo files are a doddle.


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## GR33N

I know I've got a Mac and should be on the promotional side, but I don't mind laughing at myself so here we go :lol:


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## eddie bullit

m1pui said:


> It's not really helpful asking what are the limitations as everything has limitations and what you use it for might come nowhere near that.
> 
> You should ask yourself or say what you need/want your machine to do and then work out which, if either, would fall short.


Its' helpful to me!


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## m1pui

eddie bullit said:


> Its' helpful to me!


I think you've missed my point, but I hope you find the answer you want.


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## GJM

DW58 said:


> I bought Apple because I was thoroughly dissatisified after years of Windows use


But still have to rely on Windows on your Apple



DW58 said:


> now I'm a happy Apple user


Still using Windows


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## GJM

GR33N said:


> Im presuming you're talking about specialist software packages that wont run on OSX? I know there are a few I use that cannot be run on OSX but I have no issues running Windows in VMWare for these occasions.
> 
> You cant expect a company that sells a small number of licenses for a software package to spend time developing it for OSX when they are unlikely to make any gains from it. Again this depends exactly on what software and 3rd party compatibility issues you had.


Had issues with office docs not being compatible and there was some other things that were causing problems.

Some companies sites we use would not load correctly and used online bidding with a few companies but with Mac it would not work.

So something as simple as viewing an online auction was not possible out the box.

Guess they are getting more compatible as time goes on but we wanted something to work out the box, not to meddle with and run Windows in an Apple or mess around with parallels etc


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## DW58

GJM said:


> But still have to rely on Windows on your Apple


No, I don't have to rely on Windows. In fact don't have to use Windows at all.



GJM said:


> Still using Windows


The only reason I have Windows on my Mac at all is to enable me to use two German-produced mapping packages which are only available for Windows.

Currently I don't have Windows on my Mac at all since installing my SSD and re-formatting my HDD. Probably won't install it again until next year when I may need the maps.

Good try - crashed and burned


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## GJM

DW58 said:


> I currently use Parallels 7 to run Windows software


Not crashed and burned, even a staunch convert like you would be mapless without it, you said it yourself.

That is your situation, I found other things would not work and so might the next tom, dick and harry with more than what I found or you.


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## GR33N

GJM said:


> Had issues with office docs not being compatible and there was some other things that were causing problems.
> 
> Some companies sites we use would not load correctly and used online bidding with a few companies but with Mac it would not work.
> 
> So something as simple as viewing an online auction was not possible out the box.
> 
> Guess they are getting more compatible as time goes on but we wanted something to work out the box, not to meddle with and run Windows in an Apple or mess around with parallels etc


On the currently version of Office for Mac, there is a compatibility report/checker and Windows friendly attachments etc, however I've personally never had any issues with it. How long ago was it you had a Mac out of interest mate?

There are sometimes issues with how Safari renders certain webpages, but Ive never had any website I couldn't get working on Chrome on the rare occasion this happens. Although this is strange because Chrome and Safari are technically built on the same platform :lol:


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## Gruffs

My Garmin updates on my iMac. 

Get a different Map! :lol:


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## jimbo1

I beg to differ



SteveyG said:


> WTF? You're comparing a single Mac keyboard to what exactly? There's thousands of different keyboards out there, have you personally tried all of them to qualify that comment?
> 
> Again, BS comment. Some PCs are made to a price and will use cheap parts, others are made with premium parts. If you compare a premium PC with casework that has to be machined and whatever else, it's still cheaper than a comparable spec Mac.
> 
> ah, S again
> 
> EXACTLY.
> 
> The choice between a PC and Mac should only really be based on whether you already have Apple products, whether you don't have any software or hardware with compatibility issues and whether or not you get on with the OS and whether you want to pay the extra premium. People comparing the build quality are not really making valid points because you can buy laptops or PCs that are built from equally good or better parts than Macs are. People who resort to those kind of comments are the kinds of people that sound like they're trying to justify their purchase by making sweeping statements without knowing the facts.
> 
> Not really an Apple hatefest. I have no issues with Apple, but I do have issues with Apple users who compare their computer to a PC world special.


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## DW58

Gruffs said:


> My Garmin updates on my iMac.
> 
> Get a different Map! :lol:


I too get Garmin updates on my Mac, but the special Germany and Luxembourg 1:20,000 and 1:25,000 mapping software just isn't available in Mac-format. There again I have got even larger scale mapping software for both areas on my iPad, just with less detail unfortunately - win some/loose some.


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## OvlovMike

Alex_225 said:


> Well I'm sure Microsoft have the ability to control what third party drivers are used etc. If Apple can do it then surely Microsoft can? You do get more control over a PC but in terms of actual use if you don't want to get too techy then do you need that control?


No, Microsoft won't. You can control it, but that is not what the experience on a Windows PC is about - it's about a diverse, fairly open platform to operate from where prices aren't inflated by months to-ing and fro-ing with Apple about whether you can or you can't. Consequence of this is that if you buy cheap, you buy twice. **** poor products come with **** poor driver support.


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## OvlovMike

Guitarjon said:


> You mentioned your pc is 5 years old and your ready for a new one. Well my mac is 8 years old and going strong. Not had a single problem wrong with it. Previously a decent laptop would last me about 4-5 years granted they are cheaper but as with everything you et what you pay for. There are still somethings I really miss from a windows pc though which are annoying but at the end of the day I can always trust my mac. The last windows laptop I have is a works one and was purchased brand new 2 years ago. It's highly unreliable big, bulky massive spec but it just doesn't work.


My PC is nearly 6 years old and plays Crysis 2. Again, buy cheap, buy twice.


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## dominic84

I like Apple products, but I've never understood why people say Window IS unreliable, it's not, not these days anyway. 

I remember when Windows 95/98 would lock up from app crashes, but since that issue was ironed out, I find Windows to be ultra reliable, providing the hardware base is sound.


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