# waxtub gone?



## todds (Feb 17, 2015)

Have waxtub left the manufactures and private label sub forums. If so that makes 3 in over a week or so obsession wax, wowo included.Not good for guys like me who only want to buy from sponsors on here. 2 of the above i have bought a lot of products off in the past because of the advice and help also given on their forum pages.i will have to look to other sponsors on here now.
regards
todds
ps i forgot about OCD Wax who are also gone


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## dave-g (Nov 14, 2009)

Does seem a shame, I'm in the same boat, I liked being able to get answers on subsections of the manufacturers but now look elsewhere!


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## OvEr_KiLL (Mar 2, 2015)

obsession wax and wowo's and waxtub are still trading just not on here and o.c.d has gone


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## macca666 (Mar 30, 2010)

As much as I hated it I ended up joining Facebook as more and more stuff was going through it rather than forums. Hit me hard with the Maestro I'm restoring and lots on facebook but not much on the owners club forums 

Ended up joining FB as a result. Have very few friends on it and really just use it for a chosen few groups.

Paul at Waxtub had messaged me through FB and like others he has other stuff to focus on unfortunately so didn't renew his membership this year but will hopefully come back next year.


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

Ben Gum said:


> I've spoken with a lot of brands and the feeling is that DW is a bit of a clique. If you don't have enough avid fans shouting your name you can find ourself going nowhere. Just being there and posting, telling people about your products can be a total flop, if ou don't have friends helping. It is probably something DW should ask how to improve.


I dont agree with this 'clique' thing. This is one of the friendliest forums I know (I am on quite a few). Ask a question in here and you get a reply with suggestions, products and recommendations. I have been on many forums where the same questions are asked over and over and folks respond with 'FFS use the search', doesnt happen here, people are happy to give their input.

I am happy to hold my hand up and say I struggled to know the difference between a wax and a polish when I first joined but was given given great advice from members on here.

I think the issue maybe is that there are a lot of great companies selling great products but at quite a selective market (some of the reviews that John from Forensic Detailing makes my head spin at the amount of selection available, even in just the microfibres to take the products off!).

True, if your product is not getting raved about one month, it maybe seen as not good, which in my experience is far from true, its just competing with so many others and detailing is hardly for the masses. It just must be really tough for these guys to compete with so many other like products.

It must take a lot of time and effort to produce these products and we ALL only have 24hrs in a day.

Sorry, possibly gone off on a tangent, didnt meant to ramble on.


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## danwel (Feb 18, 2007)

Facebook is just very very easy to be able to send messages and communicate which is probably why a lot have moved to it.

I do think there is a certain number of "in crowd" names on here and unless you are offering cheap as chips products as a new manufacturer it is hard to get a look in.

That being said the forum itself is very friendly and people always seem willing to help.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Ben Gum said:


> I've spoken with a lot of brands and the feeling is that DW is a bit of a clique. If you don't have enough avid fans shouting your name you can find ourself going nowhere. Just being there and posting, telling people about your products can be a total flop, if ou don't have friends helping. It is probably something DW should ask how to improve.


This may be true but surely small volume manufacturers just see DW as another way of exposing their products to an, admittedly enthusiastic, potential purchasing audience. DW should just be considered another source of social media exposure for their wares in addition to the likes of Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest etc. and other more traditional forms of product advertising.

Alan W


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## Simonrev (Nov 26, 2012)

I think that FB is all well and good but the groups don't have the forum format and layout which can't be beaten for searching products and questions in an easy way. On FB, yes you can use the search tool, but too much information gets lost IMO


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Simonrev said:


> I think that FB is all well and good but the groups don't have the forum format and layout which can't be beaten for searching products and questions in an easy way. On FB, yes you can use the search tool, but too much information gets lost IMO


This is spot on. Find the FB groups are a lot less grown up and more about who you know when it comes to posting. If certain people don't like what they see, a message to a few friends within the group and you're suddenly the subject of a witch hunt.


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## OvEr_KiLL (Mar 2, 2015)

facebook is free dw isnt...thats another reason why companies leave


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

This is were I maybe a bit behind, I don't have facebook.


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

DW has been good to us throughout the years - After all its where I gained a lot of knowledge and at the earliest available time we have chosen to support and have a presence on DW - And that will never change.

We do not use DW as a direct sales outlet all the time - more of a guide for our customers to see how to use the products, product information and of course to advise of any new products we are launching.. If anything we give more products away on DW through silly competitions and through the 12 days of xmas etc

All of our passions are still there as are the direct links with Waxstock/DW limited editions etc and we have awesome fun doing so plus our peer group are here too.

To that end we will always be supporters and sponsors on DW - we are not a phase or a 1 year wonder. - Bouncer's will be 6 this year - young yes but our commitment from the original days remain the same and historically without DW as a platform Bouncer's probably would not have started/existed.

All the best

Jay & Team Bouncer's


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## todds (Feb 17, 2015)

I find that the regular posters on DW are not a clique but a valued group of men and women who give up a lot of their valuable time to help everyone else with honest, fair and real life experience with their use of products. It is also great to see new members posting questions and putting forward new ideas as well. Above all the respect that members show towards each other is what keeps me coming back. The speed and clarity which manufacturers reply to queries even after work hours is amazing and i appreciate it.We tend to forget that these people are working over 40 hours a week at this as a day job as well in many cases.The above are some of the reasons i only buy from sponsors on DW as they deserve our support in return for theirs.
regards
todds


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## todds (Feb 17, 2015)

OvEr_KiLL said:


> facebook is free dw isnt...thats another reason why companies leave


Reminds me of the quote Sometimes the best things in life are not free
regards
todds


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## Hufty (Apr 27, 2015)

I think all the above views are valid, there is a new detailing group every week on fb and there often descends into name calling and virtual punch ups. I think the advantage of Facebook is speed access is quick, don’t know how that compares to using Tapatalk?. The ability to post pictures easily and quickly is also,a bonus I think having to host pics is a bit tiresome in my view. I do think the advice and overall quality of the experience is much better here.


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## Blackroc (Dec 10, 2012)

For me the issue is slightly different. 

There’s lots of “detailers” that set up wanting instant business, instant success and instant fortune, and they see Facebook as the route to the magic pot of gold. Sadly there’s lots of “me too” product brands that are regurgitating products from mainstream companies that also want the instant fame and fortune and target Facebook because it’s quick and easy. It doesn’t mean they will be here in 12 months though.

Whilst they initially might build quick sales, they aren’t building long term relationships that bring people back time and time again.

For me, businesses like Jay’s have realised that DW is about building the brand and the personal relationships with its customers - something he does excellently. Yes it’s not quick or easy but it works.

I see lots of brand ‘owners’ on Facebook pages / groups that post snidey, derogatory comments daily about their potential customers that contact them or are on groups, and frankly all they are doing is eroding the credibility they generate for their products.

I’m not remotely having a pop at brands that come and go on here, they have their reasons I’m sure.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pxr5 (Feb 13, 2012)

scooobydont said:


> This is were I maybe a bit behind, I don't have facebook.


Same here. I've never used facebook and nothing at all would ever tempt to me to. Only once have I ever needed to access something on there so I asked to my wife to do it from her account (nothing detailing btw). I recall Autobrite used to be one of the big players on here, then they left rather suddenly. I understand that they moved across to FB. I consider that their loss. Maybe it is a business decision, but surely the passion and friendliness on this site is more important - maybe that's too much effort. But look at Auto Allure on here, they seem to be managing just fine on DW and make the effort to keep things ticking along. Will they eventually go FB/twitter only? Who knows, but hopefully not. Detailing World carries a lot of clout IMO, and this is where the passion really is.


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## leeandfay (May 2, 2017)

We do use DW to tell people about offers and just now customers asked us to change the colour of the font on our website as it was hard to read so we did.

We use social media also but here is like jay says above a place to ask questions, get involved with like minded people etc etc. 

We won’t up and leave to go to social media only.

75% of our business comes from regular members of the public outside of here and Facebook as that’s where we seem to get traction hence why we’re balancing the look of our products because on here we have one opinion but to the masses of younger car owners they want something different from a label etc.

I came to DW in 2007 and was a moderator for a few years and from my first postc about a porter cable machine I was hooked.

Cheesey but I love it here :argie:


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## Moet1974 (Sep 13, 2015)

We can all come to vastly different opinions based on what we know about the loss of each brand from DW. I wholeheartedly agree with most that DW is very professional, doesn’t tolerate small minded antics and generally is populated with like minded members. FB is a minefield for many and I agree that people choose to stay away. Most new businesses or even established ones however would frankly be foolish to not use it as a platform. The only thing missing from the equation here is DW supporters and traders fees. Whilst these maybe unique to each applicant some general guidelines to cost may give general members an indication if price does or doesn’t play a part in a traders decision to leave. :thumb:


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

OvEr_KiLL said:


> obsession wax and wowo's and waxtub are still trading just not on here and o.c.d has gone


Wowo's is back , jay at Obsession are re evaluating and may return in a couple of months while he looks into things , Waxtub - Paul is still trying to build his brand and is using his funds to do something else at the moment but again hopefully will return

OCD i believe has closed down



Ben Gum said:


> I've spoken with a lot of brands and the feeling is that DW is a bit of a clique. If you don't have enough avid fans shouting your name you can find ourself going nowhere. Just being there and posting, telling people about your products can be a total flop, if ou don't have friends helping. It is probably something DW should ask how to improve.


Not sure which brands as a lot are on DW and we try to keep DW as friendly as we can - not something that can be the said of some social media groups -

DW has 95k members , 40k instagram followers and 19k Facebook followers - Whilst social media has a place for detailing groups - DW is an oracle of Knowledge that is bookmarked on the web, discussions on social disappear - search on google and DW will always come up

A lot of new companies USE Dw to expose their brand and they opt out to continue to support the forum thats their choice - the forum supporters help run the site - server costs - DW At Waxstock - prizes - behind the scene work that nobody sees

As we tell every new supporter on DW you have to be active and speak to the members they don't bite you get back what you put in with the members -

Anyways Hopefully we will see all the brands back in the future and here is to a couple of newbies Alien Magic and Sam's Detailing

:thumb:


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## dchapman88 (Mar 17, 2016)

Ben Gum said:


> My major concern is unscrupulous practices. You will, no doubt, be aware that certain companies give certain individuals certain perks. This is never transparent. When was the last time you saw an individual state that product X is the best thing since sliced bread and, by the way, the supplier gives me lots of free product? This is a legally grey area. You should be aware that it is no longer legal to get free goods from a supplier and then post reviews without divulging your relationship - this is a big thing in recent times.
> 
> I think it is just a tricky line because I do suspect that certain parties are in contravention of this. It is not the small sponsors because they don't have the volumes to be giving out the freebies so they basically are suffering at the hands of it. It is not the fault of DW but I do think more could be done to attempt to ensure that those shouting loudest are doing so in a balanced manner and do not show signs of undue bias.


I struggle with these comments 
Mainly because I have been shouting about products (before I became a reviewer) 
If people ask for my opinion then I give it based on my experiences.

I'm not in any way suggesting that I'm one of the most active, experienced, most qualified or influential, but I have had a good few people PM'ing me asking for opinions on coatings, waxes, glazes etc
And I have never been shy on reccomending products and they do regularly end up being the same old ones
But I've never been asked to push certain products or been given anything in return for reccomending them.

I can't say I've even heard of anyone being given anything for promotion

Maybe I'm being a bit wet behind the ears but I don't think it's a huge issue on DW


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## leeandfay (May 2, 2017)

I would also just like to throw our hats into the ring and say if we've given anything away or asked for reviews - I want feedback whether good bad or average. 

This is why we reviewed 3 products and the feedback was less than brilliant lol so we binned the products off and tbh lost a bit of money doing it. 

Whats the point of bigging up a product by reward so it gets exposure then all the unfortunate people who buy it hate it. 

I think it's more to do with brand loyalty than fraudulent reviews (I may be wrong) - I can't speak for every brand but certainly none of that goes on in my manor.


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## k4ith (Apr 3, 2008)

As whizzer touched on some companies will be looking at funds going out especially at this time of the year when not everyone is buying detailing stuff coming off the back of christmas a lot of forums charge a premium and probably rightly so due to this being really the only detailing forum especially in the uk. FB to an extent is free but if you want to really get out there you need to pay and small start ups and companies in there infancy may prefer this to DW.
Some people are expecting deals and discounts of these companies all year round which again is unfair as some products the mark up will be small postage costs rise as well as packing these items to get them safely to customers. I always try to buy from sponsors on here regardless. I take my hat off though to the new guys as starting up is tough especially nowadays.


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## Mikej857 (Jan 17, 2012)

Sorry yo say that although internet forums used to be a great resource and very friendly how often can everyone say they genuinely log into there account compared to the social media accounts where you can not only look for information regarding new products and services but connect with friends and family at the same time?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Danjc (Dec 1, 2013)

Mikej857 said:


> Sorry yo say that although internet forums used to be a great resource and very friendly how often can everyone say they genuinely log into there account compared to the social media accounts where you can not only look for information regarding new products and services but connect with friends and family at the same time?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


They still are a great resource and friendly and logging in is no harder than tapping an icon as I'm always logged in so it's just a page refresh :thumb:
Social media has its place but for me it will never be as good or replace a dedicated forum in many ways.


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## Mikej857 (Jan 17, 2012)

Danjc said:


> They still are a great resource and friendly and logging in is no harder than tapping an icon as I'm always logged in so it's just a page refresh :thumb:
> Social media has its place but for me it will never be as good or replace a dedicated forum in many ways.


That may be correct to some extent but social media also has dedicated pages for like minded people whether it be for detailing or dogging whatever your penchant to there's a social media page.

This is a discussion that can and probably will go on forever as you have your die hard fans of internet forums who will stand by them no matter what but the reality is they are a dying breed that have served there purpose but the technical market has moved on and social media has taken over, I remember the days when the owners clubs were all the rage but they've died as well and moved over to social media a long time ago so it was only a matter of time before the whole "hobby" side of the internet did the same.

Internet forums are a big investment compared to social media which has a large bearing for the smaller brands

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Mikej857 said:


> That may be correct to some extent but social media also has dedicated pages for like minded people whether it be for detailing or dogging whatever your penchant to there's a social media page.
> 
> This is a discussion that can and probably will go on forever as you have your die hard fans of internet forums who will stand by them no matter what but the reality is they are a dying breed that have served there purpose but the technical market has moved on and social media has taken over, I remember the days when the owners clubs were all the rage but they've died as well and moved over to social media a long time ago so it was only a matter of time before the whole "hobby" side of the internet did the same.
> 
> ...


I log into the forum several times per day. As easy as click on my tapatalk icon on my phone so as easily accessible as social media.

The two things that will hold FB groups back is lack of proper moderating, allowing members to be exposed to abuse and bullying with nobody stepping in in a timely manner. When they do step in it's often too late and the problem is never dealt with properly.

They don't retain information well either. Social media is great for asking a simple question there and then but if your looking for a specific review/detailed information you saw weeks before it soon falters. Forums will always win in this regard and I think that is the most important part of detailing.

Both have their place in the detailing community but as a personal preference forums are much better and the information provided on forums such as DW is far more useful than what the typical FB keyboard warrior is willing to provide.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Mikej857 (Jan 17, 2012)

Brian1612 said:


> I log into the forum several times per day. As easy as click on my tapatalk icon on my phone so as easily accessible as social media.
> 
> The two things that will hold FB groups back is lack of proper moderating, allowing members to be exposed to abuse and bullying with nobody stepping in in a timely manner. When they do step in it's often too late and the problem is never dealt with properly.
> 
> ...


Like I said its a discussion that'll go on forever as everyone has there preference

Over or under moderated they'll never win

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Eddmeister (May 6, 2011)

Most folk have their favourites its just natural & of course it can all be a bit “faddy” but i dont ever think I’ve seen the forum hierarchy favouring brands over others especially sponsors.


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## PaulWT (Dec 15, 2016)

Hi guys, Paul here at Waxtub. 

I was a bit late to spot this topic so sorry for the late reply. 

As Whizzer said we are just using our funds this year on building the lab, product portfolio and packaging options. 

Waxtub is going from strength to strength and will never be a one year wonder. We're here to stay and will be back on DW very soon. We miss it greatly already..

Thanks to everyone for asking, and we'll see you back here very soon.
Paul


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