# Gtechniq - complete flat sand, polish & c1 crystal lacquer



## gtechrob

One of our first customers just treated himself to a new golf gti. chopped in his old car which we did over a year ago - c1 still working same as the day it left us 

car arrived with 78 miles on the clock and not a blemish on it. here's what we did:

























flat sanded the whole car! not for the faint hearted particularly as paint thickness is pretty tight - only 90 microns in some places 

used 1200, 1500, trisac and then 3m fast cut plus (works better than p1 from flatsanding). on average 10 - 15 microns removed.

degreased and washed. found some serious drop back which we expected. then on to p1 with the wool pad and black pad. topped off with c1 on the body work, c4 on the trim (amazing how grey even brand new trim is!), c5 on the rims, g1 on the glass and i1 on the interior.

photos don't really do it justice but suffice to say the paintwork is as good as the bentley arnarge we have in at the moment:


























































thanks for looking :thumb:


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## 94Luke

wow, that red certainly stands out in the car park! great work
can I just ask why you wet sanded it if it had no blemishes? I take it it was to reduce the orange peel?


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## Ross

It looks very nice


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## Wheelie_Clean

Wow, that's one hell of a lot of work on a brand new car:doublesho

It does look very well in the after shots though:thumb:


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## lanciamug

Beautiful, just beautiful. Red, Black and white are the only colours GTis should be seen in.


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## andye

Great job, looks excellent :thumb:


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## gtechrob

yeah - it sure was a lot of work for a new car! owner wanted orange peel free paint which is what he got. not sure if we want many more jobs like this tbh!!


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## Gleammachine

Looks stunning Rob, but must ask as above why the need to flatten if it was blemish free and the paint was on the thin side other than to get that deep finish?

Sorry just read your reply about OP.


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## parish

I can't argue that it does look absolutely stunning, but I've got to question the wisdom of removing 10-15 microns from a brand new car.

I guess it does depend on how long the owner intends keeping it but that has compromised any future correction when it's actually needed.


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## gtechrob

it's not going to need correction for a very long time with c1. this guy really knows how to wash his cars too. it's still got on average around 110microns which with our p1 polish is more than enough. interestingly all golfs have much thinner paint just near the back edge of the doors. on these areas we would have to be v. careful but with p1 we would have to be no more careful than if you were going at new paint with regular abrasive polish.


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## Rowan83

Bloody heck, awesome job mate!!! :argie:


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## parish

loboil said:


> it's not going to need correction for a very long time with c1. this guy really knows how to wash his cars too.


I'm sure that he does with that level of obssession, but there's a whole lot more that can damage the paint - scraping along hedges, sand-blasting by council gritters etc.

Still, it's his car so his choice, but it's not something I'd have done.


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## Torby

Woa, you sure have some b*lls to do that! Awesome results, though. Looks fantastic!


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## Auto Finesse

Great thread and great work guys, shows what can be done when you know what your doing :thumb: I would sacrifice 10 microns of my own CC if i had a paint finish like some of the new BMWs etc just to get that glass like finish, Orange peal just kills a good paint finish IMO


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## cragglemieSTer

looks totally amazing mate top work


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## hus55

this is a whole new ball game!

are there courses for this paint prep?


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## Robbieben

Lovely work with stunning results.


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## Guest

Nice.

And I gather you had a long chat with the customer about the best way to proceed so no problems their.

What was used on the tyres please.

:thumb:


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## gtechrob

james b said:


> Great thread and great work guys, shows what can be done when you know what your doing :thumb: I would sacrifice 10 microns of my own CC if i had a paint finish like some of the new BMWs etc just to get that glass like finish, Orange peal just kills a good paint finish IMO


heh - you know it james! your pricing structure sounds about right for this kind of job. doing this on original paint is a completely different ball game to resprays.


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## gtechrob

hus55 said:


> this is a whole new ball game!
> 
> are there courses for this paint prep?


the guy who did this (janis) is a fully qualified painter who did a long apprenticeship and about 10 yrs in a body shop. am sure he would be up for running a training session if there was enough interest.


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## gtechrob

matt1263 said:


> Nice.
> 
> And I gather you had a long chat with the customer about the best way to proceed so no problems their.
> 
> What was used on the tyres please.
> 
> :thumb:


chem guys tyre gel.


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## Mike V

pin sharp aftershots. very nice!


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## Grizzle

Thats stunning work, i'm very VERY interested in the Gtechniq products the nano fabric coating works amazingly!! I'm hoping the trim coating does the job


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## ahaydock

Looks spot on.


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## tdekany

Looks fantastic!!!!!!


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## shabba

perfect. nothing more to add. really great job guys..gotta learn how to do it!!gonna try it on my VW Polo in December


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## Guest

Wow!

Stunning, simply stunning!

Good job guys :thumb:


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## hus55

i have pm'd you .


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## gtechrob

Custom Detailers said:


> Thats stunning work, i'm very VERY interested in the Gtechniq products the nano fabric coating works amazingly!! I'm hoping the trim coating does the job


just remember to wipe the residue away. i will give my car a wash this afternoon and take more pics of the wiper blade on my car - here's how it looked back in july this year 10 months into the trial:


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## Grizzle

That would be great, the trim is starting to get me down lol.


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## drive 'n' shine

Very impressive guys, having seen some demos from Janis anyone thinking of having some training would have a good teacher :thumb:


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## baseballlover1

Wow!!!! Most VW have a lot of Orange peel, this has NONE! What grit sanding paper did you use? 4,000? Or did you use a few different?

,Dan


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## gtechrob

loboil said:


> just remember to wipe the residue away. i will give my car a wash this afternoon and take more pics of the wiper blade on my car - here's how it looked back in july this year 10 months into the trial:


here's the same wiper today.









so that's just over a year and it's still beading :thumb:


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## Bigpikle

it LOOKS great Rob, but surely you just removed many years worth of life expectancy from the specifically spec'd and applied paint? If the expected life of the paint on that car is x years with y microns, you just removed a significant % of the paint, and hence lifespan.

I doubt the owner cares, as he'll no doubt sell it in a short (relatively) space of time...but I'd bet that car has CC failure well ahead of most other red '08 Golfs, especially with all the issues that come with red paint...

I know you were asked to do it, and the customer is king etc etc, so its his responsibility and not yours, but it does worry me somewhat....this isnt a criticism of your work or quality.


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## gtechrob

Bigpikle said:


> it LOOKS great Rob, but surely you just removed many years worth of life expectancy from the specifically spec'd and applied paint? If the expected life of the paint on that car is x years with y microns, you just removed a significant % of the paint, and hence lifespan.
> 
> I doubt the owner cares, as he'll no doubt sell it in a short (relatively) space of time...but I'd bet that car has CC failure well ahead of most other red '08 Golfs, especially with all the issues that come with red paint...
> 
> I know you were asked to do it, and the customer is king etc etc, so its his responsibility and not yours, but it does worry me somewhat....this isnt a criticism of your work or quality.


possibly. but consider that we replaced some of the lacquer with c1.

in tests we've done on marine paint that was massivly abraded with very coarse marine polish, finished with p1 and then coated with c1 it had exactly the same longevity as untreated paint whereas with a polymer long term coating it degraded very quickly indeed.


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## Phil H

Custom Detailers said:


> Thats stunning work, i'm very VERY interested in the Gtechniq products the nano fabric coating works amazingly!! I'm hoping the trim coating does the job


i am very impressed with c4, get some!!

awesome work!!


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## S-X-I

Phil H said:


> i am very impressed with c4, get some!!
> 
> awesome work!!


Quick question about the c4.

What prep work has to be done for application on textured plastics?

Also how is it applied?


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## Phil H

loboil said:


> here's the same wiper today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so that's just over a year and it's still beading :thumb:


very impressive, i applied c4 to my wipers last week, beading is great. Will see how long it lasts :thumb:


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## Phil H

S-X-I said:


> Quick question about the c4.
> 
> What prep work has to be done for application on textured plastics?
> 
> Also how is it applied?


Just make sure the plastics your going to apply it to are clean and free from grease. Wipe the plastics with IPA then apply the C4 with either the lint free pads that come with it or i find the meguiars sponge (cotton bud type kit) detailing buds work well for awkard areas.
Wipe the residue and your sorted.


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## mouthyman

stunning, where can i get P1 and C1 and C4?


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## S-X-I

Phil H said:


> Just make sure the plastics your going to apply it to are clean and free from grease. Wipe the plastics with IPA then apply the C4 with either the lint free pads that come with it or i find the meguiars sponge (cotton bud type kit) detailing buds work well for awkard areas.
> Wipe the residue and your sorted.


Thanks for the quick reply, i'll have a good think about getting some!


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## hus55

hi again, not sure if you recieved my pm?

can you tell me if janis would be interested in giving a course in the new year?

or could i come over to your clinic one day....

rgds hus.


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## gtechrob

hus55 said:


> hi again, not sure if you recieved my pm?
> 
> can you tell me if janis would be interested in giving a course in the new year?
> 
> or could i come over to your clinic one day....
> 
> rgds hus.


never got your pm. think it would be a bit ambitious to call our unit a clinic!! we try to keep it spotless but then again it's probably cleaner than most hospitals!

yes - am sure we can arrange something. we have a bentley arnarge black label in at the moment that has been resprayed on one side that we were going to start flat sanding today. we've got plenty of work to do on the rest of the car so if you like and are free we could do something tomorrow.


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## gtechrob

mouthyman said:


> stunning, where can i get P1 and C1 and C4?


missed this post.

direct from the manufacturer - me!

but... cannot sell c1 to end users (liability issues).

see this thread for details :thumb:


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## isherdholi

So does this mean you removed the clear coat lacquer completely and then applied the c1 sealant? I'm confused


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## The Detail Doctor

isherdholi said:


> So does this mean you removed the clear coat lacquer completely and then applied the c1 sealant? I'm confused


:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho

I think you will find that would make an awfull mess.

They wetsanded the clearcoat to make it as blemish free as possible, then polished.


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## gtechrob

isherdholi said:


> So does this mean you removed the clear coat lacquer completely and then applied the c1 sealant? I'm confused


no - we removed the orange peel that vw call a finish (flat sand with a block to knock the tops of the mountains off to get an even finish).

so that's some clear coat removed (appx 10 microns). but a single application of c1 should more than compensate for thinner clear coat as c1 is a much denser and thereby more resistant coating than acrylic paint.


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## Dave KG

loboil said:


> no - we removed the orange peel that vw call a finish (flat sand with a block to knock the tops of the mountains off to get an even finish).
> 
> *so that's some clear coat removed (appx 10 microns). but a single application of c1 should more than compensate for thinner clear coat as c1 is a much denser and thereby more resistant coating than acrylic paint.*


This part of the science interests me - there's a very interesting paper in the Journal of Coatings Technology I was reading, must dig it out again now, that describes the affects of UV radiation on clearcoat paint systems. The short story of it being that the thinner the clearcoat, the greater the penetration (simple physics) through to the interface layer (bottom of the clearcoat where it sits on the colour coat). It was argued that UV damage here can cause premature clearcoat failure by peeling - drawing a simple conclusion from this information alone, I would say that thinner clearcoat can lead to premature clearcoat failure.

*However*, if the C1 offers tenable UV protection then this cancels the above problem out, so I am keen to see any data to verify something like this as it would make itself a stunner of a product to allow one to safely remove greater amounts of clearcoat without concerning ourselves with the issues raised above 

Additionally, I suspect there's more to the story than is given in that paper but its always worth considering information from all angles.

Further, though, 10um in some cases is not really a lot - I mean, how much paint would be removed for a general scratch or deeper RDS - more than 10um in many cases! So generally speaking anyway, it is of less concern but still, I feel that clearcoat removal must be considered from more angles than simply leaving "enough" and that preserving the level where possible is important. 

Moving away from the boring science - man, that car looks good!! :thumb::thumb: Well done!


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## gtechrob

Dave KG said:


> This part of the science interests me - there's a very interesting paper in the Journal of Coatings Technology I was reading, must dig it out again now, that describes the affects of UV radiation on clearcoat paint systems. The short story of it being that the thinner the clearcoat, the greater the penetration (simple physics) through to the interface layer (bottom of the clearcoat where it sits on the colour coat). It was argued that UV damage here can cause premature clearcoat failure by peeling - drawing a simple conclusion from this information alone, I would say that thinner clearcoat can lead to premature clearcoat failure.
> 
> *However*, if the C1 offers tenable UV protection then this cancels the above problem out, so I am keen to see any data to verify something like this as it would make itself a stunner of a product to allow one to safely remove greater amounts of clearcoat without concerning ourselves with the issues raised above
> 
> Additionally, I suspect there's more to the story than is given in that paper but its always worth considering information from all angles.
> 
> Further, though, 10um in some cases is not really a lot - I mean, how much paint would be removed for a general scratch or deeper RDS - more than 10um in many cases! So generally speaking anyway, it is of less concern but still, I feel that clearcoat removal must be considered from more angles than simply leaving "enough" and that preserving the level where possible is important.
> 
> Moving away from the boring science - man, that car looks good!! :thumb::thumb: Well done!


the story gets even more interesting when you look at marine pu paints. they are very clever as due to the fact that they have a much denser molecular structure than acrylic paints they take much longer to cure - typically as much as a month to fully cure.

during the curing process the pigments migrate towards the substrate leaving a resin rich protective layer at the surface which filters uv and generally protects the pigments from damage.

the big problem that yachts painted with pu paint have is that as soon as you polish the paint, this resin rich wear layer is compromised which leads to rapid failure of the paint finish.

here's where our system steps in. in the first instance p1 removes much less paint than abrasive polishes (but wierdly it works much faster and produces a better finish). so you have less resin layer removed. then when coated with c1 the removal of the resin rich wear layer is compensated by the strong uv filters and durability of c1. we've tested samples to destruction of unpolished samples, samples polished with regular abrasives, samples polished with p1 and finally samples polished with p1 and coated with c1. the samples polished with abrasives lost 25%, those with p1 only, 15% and those polished with p1 and coated with c1 8%. the control samples of fresh paint lost ... 8%!

here's our press book - have a read of the article that appeared in The Yacht Report for more info on the above.


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## gtechrob

btw if you can find that article, I would be v. interested to see it.


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## gtechrob

and thanks for the double :thumb: for the car! my customer was blown away by the results.


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## parish

loboil said:


> the story gets even more interesting when you look at marine pu paints. they are very clever as due to the fact that they have a much denser molecular structure than acrylic paints they take much longer to cure - typically as much as a month to fully cure.
> 
> during the curing process the pigments migrate towards the substrate leaving a resin rich protective layer at the surface which filters uv and generally protects the pigments from damage.
> 
> the big problem that yachts painted with pu paint have is that as soon as you polish the paint, this resin rich wear layer is compromised which leads to rapid failure of the paint finish.
> 
> here's where our system steps in. in the first instance p1 removes much less paint than abrasive polishes (but wierdly it works much faster and produces a better finish). so you have less resin layer removed. then when coated with c1 the removal of the resin rich wear layer is compensated by the strong uv filters and durability of c1. we've tested samples to destruction of unpolished samples, samples polished with regular abrasives, samples polished with p1 and finally samples polished with p1 and coated with c1. the samples polished with abrasives lost 25%, those with p1 only, 15% and those polished with p1 and coated with c1 8%. the control samples of fresh paint lost ... 8%!
> 
> here's our press book - have a read of the article that appeared in The Yacht Report for more info on the above.


This is interesting. Is c1 used on yachts and cars the same, or do you just use the same nomenclature but have a Marine c1 and an Automotive c1?

I would have thought that as PU and acrylic are totally different substances they would require different polish/protection systems


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## gtechrob

parish said:


> This is interesting. Is c1 used on yachts and cars the same, or do you just use the same nomenclature but have a Marine c1 and an Automotive c1?
> 
> I would have thought that as PU and acrylic are totally different substances they would require different polish/protection systems


not really. c1 uses the hydroxyl group in its covalent bonding. this group is present in anything plastic so it includes pu paints, grp, acrylic etc.

but they are different. we engineer different functionality into c1 auto and c1 marine. c1 auto has more emphasis on abrasion resistance whereas c1 marine more on uv. in fact we also have a c0 which is designed only for waterlines on yachts to repel scum. it's a hydrophylic (water loving) coating but is not as strong on uv.

as you can see we have a lot of control over what we can get c1 to do :lol:

p1 auto and p1 marine are by and large the same. the marine is even dustier! but then it doesn't matter so much in boat yards. p1 marine is totally awesome on grp and pu paint. honestly nothing touches it in terms of speed and clarity of finish with minimum hologramming.


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## parish

loboil said:


> but they are different. we engineer different functionality into c1 auto and c1 marine. c1 auto has more emphasis on abrasion resistance whereas c1 marine more on uv.


Ah, that makes sense. TBH the idea that it was *exactly* the same makes it smell of snake oil - thanks for clarifying :thumb:



loboil said:


> in fact we also have a c0 which is designed only for waterlines on yachts *to repel scum*.


So if used on cars, would it repel chav scum who might want to key your car?


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## gtechrob

parish said:


> Ah, that makes sense. TBH the idea that it was *exactly* the same makes it smell of snake oil - thanks for clarifying :thumb:
> 
> So if used on cars, would it repel chav scum who might want to key your car?


we're working on it :lol:


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## King Eric

I'd love to have my scooby given this treatment especially as I intend on keeping her for a longtime, how long does it take?


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## hus55

hope you recieved my pm. i might even come down on my pride and joy.....and see how you could improve its paintwork.

so how would you compare with menzerna products in terms of use and finish?

rgds hus


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## gtechrob

King Eric said:


> I'd love to have my scooby given this treatment especially as I intend on keeping her for a longtime, how long does it take?


hi king eric.

iirc your scooby is pretty much swirl free so we are looking at around 4-5 hours. see here for full details (I figure you would need some machine polishing so we would be looking at the Swirl Killer option). you will, as all will on DW, be qualifying for a 12.5% discount on list :thumb:

this is for machining first not flat sanding. to flat sand a scooby you would be looking at a bill of somewhere around 2.5 to 3k.


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## gtechrob

hus55 said:


> hope you recieved my pm. i might even come down on my pride and joy.....and see how you could improve its paintwork.
> 
> so how would you compare with menzerna products in terms of use and finish?
> 
> rgds hus


for paintwork correction pSystem (p1 & G|techniq pads) will work much faster than Menzerna and be able to remove more damage without having to flat sand really bad defects.

Quality of finish will be comparable. But as I think this thread has probably demonstrated, in order to get the ultimate glass like finish you have to start with flat paint.


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## Dave KG

loboil said:


> btw if you can find that article, I would be v. interested to see it.


Here's the link:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TXS-49S7YGT-1&_user=1026342&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=1026342&md5=2f15bf520fac51d4af4200d8fe8c537e

You'll need an Athens account to view the pdf.

I also blethered about UV protection here based on some things in this paper and some practical observations...

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=75590

:thumb:


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## bidderman1969

stunning finish


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## Christian6984

the car looks great, but i would have lived with the orange peel


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## nicp2007

amazing work mate,

:thumb:


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## gtvlew

What were the paint readings after you finished??


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## Petrol-head

WOW! Stunning work :thumb:


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## GaryST220

Stop teasing us, we need more photos of the GTi!


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## saxoboy07

What gorgeous car:argie: increditable finish:thumb: paint looks like liquid:argie:


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## gtechrob

thanks! - those are the only pics we did tho.


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## Buzzsaw

Stunning workmanship looks like you boyz are raising the game :thumb:


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## jamesmut

top work fellas!!!!!!!!


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## colarado red

awesome job:argie::argie::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:


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## Mat430uk

Great work looks amazing !


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## gt5500

I know we cannot tell the whole story from pics since lighting, camera, photographic skills and a whole load of variables come into it but those finish shots blew me away. That has to be the most crystal clear sparkly finish I have ever seen. Well done:thumb::thumb:


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## notsosmall

That car now looks amazing :argie: 

great work :thumb:


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## Porta

Stellar job!


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## needhampr

Wow! That's completely aspirational stuff!!

Surprised to hear the paint was so initially thin. :thumb::thumb::thumb:


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## RenesisEvo

Brave decision, very much paid off! Outrageously good finish!


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## KKM

Cracking work. The glow on the paint is stunning!!

:thumb:


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## Racer

Superb work but the thread is even more interesting for me, regarding the quality of the products :thumb:


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## OngarGTI

Amazing!


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## Piratez

OMG:doublesho
Very very wet and gloss look, :thumb:


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## 2SLICK4U

I love that wet look


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## Mirror Finish Details

I missed the post the first time.

Great work and a stunning finish.

Re wet flatting. 10 -15um off a new car is not a lot really, bearing in mind you are really knocking off the peaks of the clear down to the lower troughs, so in reality under a microscope part of the car has high spots at 115um and part of the car has low spots at say 100um. Only a tiny part is taken off.

I have a few customers who want total clarity and I will take off over 25/30um wet sanding to get them the finish they want. They are paying the bill and they don't really care about the future of the car, hell if you can afford a new £60k Range Rover every two years would you really care that much to get the ultinate finish?


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## Mr_Scisco

Great thread resurection. Never saw it first time and I'm glad ive seen it now. Especially as I'm investing in gtech products. Although it's flatted in the first pics, matte red looks quite cool.


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## Captainicemandw

The finished result looks great. Flattening paint seems drastic step especially for new car.


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## gtechrob

wow - takes me back!! 

we still see the car from time to time as it belongs to our local friendly porsche specialist. still looks the nuts - will try and get a snap of it next time I am in there although I think his mrs has snaffled the car most days.

can't say that we have done many jobs like that since though!! don't think we would look to charging less than around £3k to do this again and probably wouldn't do it on factory paint.


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## superdoug

Whats the finish like on it now then?


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## Kelly @ KDS

gtechrob said:


> wow - takes me back!!
> 
> can't say that we have done many jobs like that since though!! don't think we would look to charging less than around £3k to do this again and probably wouldn't do it on factory paint.


But you know where to send it to the man that does thou 

kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


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## dazzyb

impressive, but scary work, ur very brave on a new car.
looks amazing in the finished photos tho


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## cotter

Missed this first time round. All I can say is wow, amazing finish Rob :thumb:


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## Arfman

Holy cow!


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## Mr Singh

My kind of detail. Nice work


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## M.J

very interesting and thanks for sharing your work , thats first time i,ve heard about these kinds of products and the job they are designed for . 
It got me thinking about the 25%+25%+50% (estimate) prima, base colour and clearcoat total depth , your left with roughly 40 microns average of clearcoat? 

Just a query as i,m just interested in the science of it all and also how long the products last , i,m sure this can benifit a wide range of issues when it comes to paint depth compromising and naturally thin paints out there 

cheers 
Mike


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