# These Mixed Martial Arts



## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

I know there's a few martial arts people/fans on here and wondered about your thoughts on these mixed martial arts classes that crop up now and again. 

I started Juitjitsu earlier this year and spent about 5 months preparing for my first grading. From then on the quickest I could progress was a grading every 6 months. Now having done Kung-Fu for about four years when I was younger, again the progression seemed fairly similar. 

So going on that basis of the current art I'm doing, you're looking at a minimum of about 6 years to become a black belt, provided you pass every grading every six months. 

Now someone I work with has just started some mixed martial arts classes, which to be honest sounds more like some work out that involves a bit of self defense than a structure syllabus to build on. Anyway, they've been told after 2 sessions that they're being put forward for their first grading?? :doublesho

Is it me or does that not just seem a bit, well watered down? I mean I know with a traditional art there is a lot to learn that in reality you may not use in self defense but it's structured, disciplined and mentally difficult not just physcially. 

Just getting the impression that with some of these classes you can just turn up, be fit and grade one after the other and become a black belt in no time. Seems to just be a watered down version of traditional martial arts.


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

Depends on the grading system doesn't it?

If you just have to pass that grade, they can rattle through them. But, to get a Black belt in my Ju Jitsu class, you had to do all the gradings consecutively (not that i have a black belt). So, it turns into the entire class being there ofr various parts of the day. 

Progressing through the belt and their moves with just the most advanced left 
remaining at the end of the day having passed all the previous gradings having to perform their Black belt grading and kata.

Because it is so large, it's cost effective to do it every 6 months or so.


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

I just mean that it seems that a lot of these classes offer the ability to skip through belts quickly. 

For example the class my friend at work has started allows you to become a black belt in 3 years! 

There's no way that with the martial arts I've experienced could you achieve a black belt that quickly. Even the class I do now say that to achieve a belt every six months you need to do two classes a week so appoximately 90 hours of training. Admittedly Juitjitsu seems to be extremely complex but by all accounts the same applies to Kung-Fu, Karate etc. 

I get the impression some of the mixed martial arts classes just rattle you through belts and to me at least it seems a little bit easy by comparison to become a black belt really quickly.

Don't get me wrong I'm no expert and no where near a black belt level in anyway way, shape or form but having seen people study an art for 10 years to become a 1st dan black belt, then to hear of people going 'I became a black belt in 3 years'. Seems a bit watered down.


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## kasman (Sep 10, 2009)

Many moons ago, I did Wing Chun and if memory serves me right you could go for your black belt within 6months (alot of work involved though) if you were good and dedicated enough, BUT, if your standards were to drop you could just as easily be down graded also. Bit odd but there you go.
Wing Chun is completely different though from the martial arts as most people understand it:thumb:


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

I am aware that a lot of traditional martial arts don't originally have a grading system so have been westernised in that sense. 

Thing is how much knowledge of a martial art can you gain in such a short space of time? Yes you can be physically fit but surely part of an art such as that is practicing the basics and building on them.


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## kasman (Sep 10, 2009)

Alex_225 said:


> I am aware that a lot of traditional martial arts don't originally have a grading system so have been westernised in that sense.
> 
> Thing is how much knowledge of a martial art can you gain in such a short space of time? Yes you can be physically fit but surely part of an art such as that is practicing the basics and building on them.


Yes, i agree. At the time of your grading, you were given a number, 1-10. 1 being worse. This was your way of monitoring your progress and as belts were not the order of the day you concentrated more on your own improvement and understanding of Wing Chun Until you were confident enough, even perhaps felt worthy to attempt a black belt grading. Otherwise you could simply proceed at gradings with your number score.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

The nearest I've got is watching them train in my gym, but the does the name not say it all really.

MIXED Martial Arts.
All they're doing is taking the best (useful to their sport) bits from everything and drumming it into the students. By choosing a specific discipline, you're learning the fundamentals and the finer points of everything. That's not to say that you're being taught rubbish, but if you wanted to do a crash course for someone, you could easily strip back any superfluous exercises.

As an example, my gym run separate Jiu Jitsu & MMA classes. So by that fact, they obviously see them, and therefore gradings, as separate entities


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

But to study the art correctly, you cannot strip it back. 

The moves are intertwined and specific to the attack. A slight angle change can completely change the response.

Perhaps MMA is more pared down and less intricate? Dunno.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Gruffs said:


> But to study the art correctly, you cannot strip it back.
> 
> The moves are intertwined and specific to the attack. A slight angle change can completely change the response.
> 
> Perhaps MMA is more pared down and less intricate? Dunno.


That's what I thought I'd said, but it is pretty much right. :lol:

It's not about it being "correct" or else you would study something specific.

If you look at it that the ultimate point of MMA is to fight in a cage (or just alternative fitness for some students), rather than learn an art/technique, you might be able to grasp why it's easier to progress. You don't _need_ to know 101 ways to take someone down when 3 or 4 will do.

There is always ways to strip it back, it's only tradition that makes it as in depth as it is. It's a bit cheesy, but Bruce Lee did it to make a more practical martial art.

I remember reading someone write something like;
"10 years might get you a black belt in Jiu Jitsu, but you could do just as well with a white belt when someones punching you in the face."

Also, a lot of places, the MMA coaches are, as the name suggests, jack of all trades so the coaching in general may not be as good as a specific.


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Gruffs said:


> Perhaps MMA is more pared down and less intricate? Dunno.


That's the kind of point I was trying to make. It's like a crash course in martial arts rather than learning an in depth art.

For example there are certain things I've learnt and thought 'When would I use that in real life' yet the more you learn the more you realise how everything interlinks and makes sense.

I guess for me part of the appeal of a martial art is it's tradition and detail.

Don't get me wrong a mixed martial arts tournament putting people from different arts is different. But learning mixed martial arts just seems like a bit of a short hand version. A get rich quick scheme for martial arts! lol


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

MMA if done right is ANYTHING but watered down. Sure it has it's cycles just like anything else, but a true mixed martial artist is being taught the functional aspects of many disciplines and not a lot of stuff that doesn't really work in it's sport. Think of it this way, mma is no less watered down than ju jitsu, who pay no attention to striking what so ever. Taekwondo as flash and interesting as it is doesn't allow a lot of strikes and is of no use in a judo bout. 

The big problem for me is that a lot of mma gyms are simply guys who like to act tough, or a striking gym that doesn't want to miss out on grapplers money etc. 

MMA as an entity doesn't have a universal grading system either so I would assume it's an in house thing they have set up, but I promise a true mma gym will teach VERY high level ground work, however they will also put an emphasis on position and striking from guard, not just subbing from guard


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

I would be more into whats being taught other than a belt that holds your top closed, shodan in many arts is thought of as the serious start to your training not the end


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

stangalang said:


> who pay no attention to striking what so ever.


I think you're thinking of Judo mate. Juijitsu involves striking, kicking, locks, strangles as well as grappling techniques.

This is the techy blurb - "Jujutsu is a Japanese martial art and a method of close combat for defeating an armed and armored opponent in which one uses no weapon or only a short weapon..................... it may utilize all forms of grappling techniques to some degree (i.e. throwing, trapping, joint locks, holds, gouging, biting, disengagements, striking, and kicking). In addition to jujutsu, many schools teach the use of weapons."

Judo has no striking at all and takes quite literally the throwing and grappling aspects.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Alex_225 said:


> I think you're thinking of Judo mate. Juijitsu involves striking, kicking, locks, strangles as well as grappling techniques.
> 
> Judo has no striking at all and takes quite literally the throwing and grappling aspects.


Really?? A friend did some hybrid sport called "kickjitsu" which tried to marry the two, but every ju jitsu class I ave taken teaches zero striking, and every bout I have watched does not allow striking of any sort


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Sounds very much like Judo mate. I just adjusted my post probably before you replied but with a copy/past job off the web haha. 

I wouldn't of wanted to learn a martial art that's limited to no striking. I did Kung-Fu and San-da before which has the limitation of stopping when your opponent is on the floor. What appeals about Juijitsu for me is that it combines strikes with some very effective take downs and locks etc.

The blurb from where I train : "Ju-Jitsu – Jujitsu is probably best described as a combination of Judo and Karate, it was also the inspiration that led to the creation of these two martial arts. Sometimes called JuiJitsu or JuJutsu it combines the stand up elements of Punching, Kicking and Throwing with the ground techinques of grappling, hold downs and submissions."


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## crazysnakeman (Oct 12, 2011)

I think it really depends on the style and Sensei. My Sensei was a believer in grading pupils when they are ready, some progress at faster rates than others so we don't have set grading days. Everyone helps out for those grading when they happen, but you don't get to grade until you are invited to. Also you don't pay any extra for grading, a lot of schools do that so it becomes an incentive for them to grade more often.

I do Jitsu, and it took me about 6 years to get my black belt, then another 6 ish to get 2nd Dan, a big part of this was teaching.

The focus on belts these days is wrong really, I've met many black belts who were not as good as some blue or brown belts I knew.

In the end it's easy to get a black belt, go to a shop and buy one. That's generally my answer when asked how long to get a black belt!

At the end of the day, if you train every day for 1 years will you be as good as someone who trains twice a week for 4? It's all subjective really.

I could train all day every day and still not be as good as someone "gifted".

All you can do is train your hardest, and forget about what belt you are, the people who get them just for turning up at a grading and paying the cash are only fooling themselves in my opinion.

:thumb:


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Ah ok. No mate ju jitsu has no striking what so ever, and concentrates less on throws and trips, and more from fighting from guard, a very aggressive guard, but from guard non the less. Judo teaches to use your opponents bodyweight to trip and throw and has submissions, some the same as bjj, some different. This is not from the Internet mind but from experience. 

I guess my point is in mma you will still see a gogo plata or pyruvian neck tie, but you won't see a knock out in ju jitsu. By there very design a lot of martial are watered down and flawed when looking at the bigger picture, but at the same time you don't have that history and tradition with mma. 

In fairness even mma is watered down version of vale tudo, that's about as brutal as a "sport" gets before it becomes something else IMO. If you can ever get footage of old vale tudo stuff I urge you to do so


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

Yes some are waterd down where i go its nearly every 10 week in kickboxing not been to my last four which i should be now brown belt white tags or black? but im only going to grade when i think im able and learnt more which i dont think i have its turned more in to a boxercise class what is annoying.
But the local mma at barnsley which im starting at is very good and no gradeing but you have jujitsu boxing grappling kickboxing trainers and a fiver for two hours you cant go wrong and to me there on a different level training wise than the kickboxing club i use.
To me mma classes learn you to fight real world style


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

stangalang said:


> No mate ju jitsu has no striking what so ever...


I still don't agree with that chap. The Juijitsu I'm learning has many various strikes. Also having trained in previous martial arts with people that have also done it, they were trained in strikes as well.

It seems that most sources I'm looking at describe it in the same way, a combination of kicking, striking, grappling, throws, locks etc.

Apologies if we're talking crossed purposes as I don't want to come across as some argumentative muppet behind my keyboard! :lol::lol:


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

chrisc said:


> Yes some are waterd down where i go its nearly every 10 week in kickboxing not been to my last four which i should be now brown belt white tags or black? but im only going to grade when i think im able and learnt more which i dont think i have its turned more in to a boxercise class what is annoying.
> But the local mma at barnsley which im starting at is very good and no gradeing but you have jujitsu boxing grappling kickboxing trainers and a fiver for two hours you cant go wrong and to me there on a different level training wise than the kickboxing club i use.
> To me mma classes learn you to fight real world style


You are right chris for the most part. But even an mma bout isn't a "fight" these days, not really, but it's as close as you will come with rules.

I just ask anyone wanting to try mma visits and watches a few classes at the gym they are looking at, when I did I went to some highly recommended places and they were shocking, I mean even to someone who wasn't into it as a sport would have seen it! The place I ended up at had Olympic wrestlers, a very clever ju jitsu teacher and split striking between a pro boxer AND a kru who I had trained under previously. It took me months but I knew it was the right place


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Alex_225 said:


> I still don't agree with that chap. The Juijitsu I'm learning has many various strikes. Also having trained in previous martial arts with people that have also done it, they were trained in strikes as well.
> 
> It seems that most sources I'm looking at describe it in the same way, a combination of kicking, striking, grappling, throws, locks etc.
> 
> Apologies if we're talking crossed purposes as I don't want to come across as some argumentative muppet behind my keyboard! :lol::lol:


:lol: no it's cool. Just you tube ju jitsu, all the bouts will contain zero striking I promise you (code: I hope as I haven't checked and may end up with egg on my face :lol But seriously, and I think we are on the same page here, a grappling gym teaching striking is like a striking gym teaching grappling, it's exactly that, 2 arts being taught and not how to marry the 2 effectively


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

yes your right would advise any one to check them out but this gym is owned by a previous kickboxing champ and looks like is sons maybe wrong have followed in foot steps.That and other styles make it a great class which end of day if you enjoy it thats what its all about that and in no way does it feel money orenetated like the kickboxing does its more of they love the sport there doing and there reward is seeing some one progress


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Haha well, I'm pretty sure there's a few here mate.











What seems to be the rules in terms of it as a sport is that you kick/punch until someone takes a grip of the opponent then you aim for a take down. What you're taught is that in real life you'd protect yourself by striking, applying a lock or whatever.

A lot of Juijitsu competitions tend to look more grappling orientated because if you're potentially going to win by points, a take down and submission obviously gains you more points.


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## crazysnakeman (Oct 12, 2011)

There is Ju Jitsu (or Jui Jitsu) and BJJ (Brazilian Ju Jitsu). BJJ is 90% grappling, there are still some strikes, but not many. These tend to get confused.

Ju Jitsu means (depending on translation) The Gentle way, or (I prefer) Way of Compliance.

In Japanese Jitsu there are many strikes, but also grappling, chokes, locks etc.

Karate, Judo and Aikido all have their roots in Ju Jitsu. These days you tend to get schools teaching a mix of Karate and Judo and calling it Ju Jitsu, but this misses out a lot of the good stuff.

True Jitsu isn't a sport, it was a battle field art, so needed to be quick and brutal.

I can attest to strikes appearing in Jitsu, I've been hit more times that I care to remember, but it goes with the territory of being an Uki.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

All the videos in the world :lol: 

Fair play, I just checked and EVERY genuine (not fight system) bjj fight is ungloved and no striking at all, just like the gyms I have trained in! But fair play those videos say otherwise. But they o again highlight what happens when you let a grappler strike, PUB HOOKS :lol: A bit of windmilling in lol. Epic. 

I would be interested on other bjj competitors to see how often they are allowed to strike in bouts 

I know I'm now coming across as argumentative, but I have trained bjj, been to competitions, and trained and fought thai and mma, and have never seen a bjj competition with striking


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

crazysnakeman said:


> There is Ju Jitsu (or Jui Jitsu) and BJJ (Brazilian Ju Jitsu). BJJ is 90% grappling, there are still some strikes, but not many. These tend to get confused.
> 
> Ju Jitsu means (depending on translation) The Gentle way, or (I prefer) Way of Compliance.
> 
> ...


Is aikido the one segal does? Small joint manipulation etc? Any idea if this is taught in uk at all?


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## crazysnakeman (Oct 12, 2011)

Thats right, Seagal has his own schools in the US.

To be fair I've never trained in BJJ, only (a style of) Jitsu, but I've trained with guys who have, they were not scared of striking, but competition may be different.

Seagal gets a lot of crap (mainly because he's got fat and old, but who doesn't?) but he is seriously good at what he does. Locks are one of the best things to use in a fight in my opinion, done properley you can drop people twice your size, but still not inflict any serious injury (unless you want to of course!)

The best fighters in MMA tend to have a base in BJJ because most fights tend to go to the floor, and BJJ is great for the floor.

I don't see many nerve grabs in competition though, and they work VERY well!


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## crazysnakeman (Oct 12, 2011)

Sorry just saw the taught in the uk question, it certainly is, but like most schools you have to be careful where you train. There is a lot of crap out there, I trained at a dojo that looked the dogs for the first 6 months of my training, and believed everything they said (I was only 18 :wall, then and a competition I met my sensei and realised that the guy runnign the school I was going to was full of ****, don't get me wrong, he was good at Karate and Judo, but it wasn't Jitsu. My sensei has fought in Japan, he's a 5th Dan in Jistu, 3rd in Karate and Judu. When you meet someone who really knows what they are doing it shows, and you want to stay with them as long as you can.

I can honestly say my sensei is the hardest guy I have ever met, and he's 70. He'd still kick my **** any day of the week!

That said, he's a lovely guy if you stay on his right side!


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

crazysnakeman said:


> Thats right, Seagal has his own schools in the US.
> 
> To be fair I've never trained in BJJ, only (a style of) Jitsu, but I've trained with guys who have, they were not scared of striking, but competition may be different.
> 
> ...


Smal joint manipulation isn't allowed in mma, unfortunately! This is my point about it being a "sport" and not a fight. I don't agree with all the rules, for example you can't knee the head of a downed apponent, you can't use small joint manipulation, but you can stamp on your opponents toes! Go figure, can't cut him open and let him heal, but I can break his toes that won't e er heal straight. Backwards IMO

I do really fancy something a bit different, maybe krav maga? Something more "functional"


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## crazysnakeman (Oct 12, 2011)

krav manga is certainly "functional", I think the Israeli police are taught that, it is certainly no nonsense.

The trouble with a lot of these is that they get "watered down", in that people just starting out can get scared off easily so they take out the nastier stuff, the stuff that will actually be useful in a "real" fight.

I think there is a lot to be said for training in different styles, so things suit one body style but not another, you take what works for you and keep it. I have learned so many moves, but probably have a core of 10 or so if I'm ever attacked (only had 1 real fight in 20 years of martial arts), these are the moves that I can do in my sleep almost, they work, and work quickly.

A big part of it is gauging the situation though, if someone wants your wallet, a lot of the time it's easier & safer to give it to them. If I'm with the family I'm far less likely (although I have) to take people on.

I will defo get my kids doing martial arts, thats for certain.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

crazysnakeman said:


> krav manga is certainly "functional", I think the Israeli police are taught that, it is certainly no nonsense.
> 
> The trouble with a lot of these is that they get "watered down", in that people just starting out can get scared off easily so they take out the nastier stuff, the stuff that will actually be useful in a "real" fight.
> 
> ...


:lol:I heard that. Biggest lesson I have learned from training is getting kicked in the face hurts, A LOT. So if a can avoid that on the streets with all those variables around I most certainly will


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

The type I studied (again for a brief period) had strikes. But usually as a counter or a finish. 

The one rule we were taught was kicks to the head are largely pointless. It's very hard, requires a lot of balance and technique. You wouldn't bend down to punch someone in the foot so why kick to the head?

Zen Kempo Ryu Ju Jitsu if anyone is interested.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Gruffs said:


> The type I studied (again for a brief period) had strikes. But usually as a counter or a finish.
> 
> The one rule we were taught was kicks to the head are largely pointless. It's very hard, requires a lot of balance and technique. You wouldn't bend down to punch someone in the foot so why kick to the head?
> 
> Zen Kempo Ryu Ju Jitsu if anyone is interested.


Yes I have just gone aWay and done some "googling" myself. There are indeed "forms" of ju jitsu that allow strikes, but they don't appear to be "taught" or exploited.  if I trained in your form of ju jitsu and knoocked you out in competition with a punch, clean, what would be the outcome?

This is really interesting as ALL the forms I have come across are both ungloved and free from strikes, and if I hit you I would be dq'd

Edit: I am genuinely interested, as a martial artist it's all about learning new things, a grappling art that I can still strike in really interests me


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

Ah. No competition. Self defense for the love of it I'm afraid.

When training, we wore gloves and pads and pulled our strikes at the contact point. We even strike when performing a throw or grapple. As I found out to my cost when I didn't turn my head and learned elbows are hard. :lol:

Designed to be brutal and quick. 

Sensei Terry Coughtrey is his name. It's his system.


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Gruffs said:


> The one rule we were taught was kicks to the head are largely pointless. It's very hard, requires a lot of balance and technique. You wouldn't bend down to punch someone in the foot so why kick to the head?


Funnily enough both the Kung-Fu I have learned and Juijitsu so far have both discouraged the fancy high kicks in terms of real life sparring/fighting.

As you say all that effort for a kick to the head is wasted effort.



stangalang said:


> Yes I have just gone aWay and done some "googling" myself. There are indeed "forms" of ju jitsu that allow strikes, but they don't appear to be "taught" or exploited.  if I trained in your form of ju jitsu and knoocked you out in competition with a punch, clean, what would be the outcome?


In terms of strikes, most of the Katas we learn contain strikes/kicks and blocks. The only Kata that doesn't is the first one which is blocks only.

In terms of knocking someone out, it would depend on the competition. For example a semi-contact competition wouldn't expect knockouts as you're not there to really do damage to your opponent. My understanding of full contact Juijitsu/Kung-fu is that if you know someone out, you've one.

The competitions they set up with my club are semi-contact and the rules generally are that you start standing, allowing for strikes/kicks then if someone gets a grip of their opponent you then don't continue to strike but go for a take down, once on the ground you aim for a submission.

What I like about Juijitsu is that you take that next step of ground fighting which in some arts you don't. If you watch someone who does a standing art compared to someone who does ground fighting, once they're on the floor they don't really stand a chance.


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

Alex_225 said:


> What I like about Juijitsu is that you take that next step of ground fighting which in some arts you don't. If you watch someone who does a standing art compared to someone who does ground fighting, once they're on the floor they don't really stand a chance.


that is very true but in a self defence situation ending up on the floor isnt imo the best place to be, thugs tend to attack in groups so your bound to end up kissing his mates boot, but for dojo comps people with ground work skills often end up winning


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Alex_225 said:


> Funnily enough both the Kung-Fu I have learned and Juijitsu so far have both discouraged the fancy high kicks in terms of real life sparring/fighting.
> 
> As you say all that effort for a kick to the head is wasted effort.
> 
> ...


But Kung Fu and ju jitsu are completely different arts 

What is it you train in exactly?


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Gruffs said:


> Ah. No competition. Self defense for the love of it I'm afraid.
> 
> When training, we wore gloves and pads and pulled our strikes at the contact point. We even strike when performing a throw or grapple. As I found out to my cost when I didn't turn my head and learned elbows are hard. :lol:
> 
> ...


That makes sense, it's not ju jitsu proper, it's a hybrid that your sensei has created. It sounds really good actually, bridging mma and bjj somewhat, a great idea

Again without being argumentative, traditional ju jitsu, Brazilian ju jitsu etc, is trained bare handed, does not teach strikes, and does not allow strikes in competition. If you look up ju jitsu world championship on you tube they are all bare handed non striking events, the Abu dabi tournament etc, and pretty much any ju jitsu competition you can go to watch WILL be the same. go to your local bjj gym and ask them to teach you striking they will point you to the kick boxing class (and probably slap on an arm bar for asking :lol


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

And everything else aside, what this thread has done is remind me how desperate I am to get to training to a decent level again, and quick. Do you mind if I blame you for this alex? It's just my missus won't be happy and she is VERY scary :lol:

I've sent her your contact details mate, she wants words :wave:


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

justina3 said:


> that is very true but in a self defence situation ending up on the floor isnt imo the best place to be, thugs tend to attack in groups so your bound to end up kissing his mates boot, but for dojo comps people with ground work skills often end up winning


I trained in Tiger Crane Kung-Fu when I was in my late teens/early 20s for about four years. There wasn't much emphasis on gradings but a lot of sparring, stand up fighting conditioning and core strength.

I am fairly new to Juijitsu but am currently training for my second grading. We train bare handed but that includes strikes and kicks all be it more controlled than if you were training with pads.



stangalang said:


> That makes sense, it's not ju jitsu proper, it's a hybrid that your sensei has created. It sounds really good actually, bridging mma and bjj somewhat, a great idea
> 
> Again without being argumentative, traditional ju jitsu, Brazilian ju jitsu etc, is trained bare handed, does not teach strikes, and does not allow strikes in competition. If you look up ju jitsu world championship on you tube they are all bare handed non striking events, the Abu dabi tournament etc, and pretty much any ju jitsu competition you can go to watch WILL be the same. go to your local bjj gym and ask them to teach you striking they will point you to the kick boxing class (and probably slap on an arm bar for asking :lol


I do honestly think you're confusing Brazillian Juijitsu with traditional Juijitsu. BJJ is "a martial art, combat sport, and a self defense system that focuses on grappling and especially ground fighting."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_Jiu-Jitsu

Traditional Juijistu as in the really old skool art is described more like the follow :

"There are many variations of the art, which leads to a diversity of approaches. Jujutsu schools (ryū) may utilize all forms of grappling techniques to some degree (i.e. throwing, trapping, joint locks, holds, gouging, biting, disengagements, striking, and kicking). In addition to jujutsu, many schools teach the use of weapons.

Today, jujutsu is practiced in both traditional and modern sport forms. Derived sport forms include the Olympic sport and martial art of judo, which was developed by Kanō Jigorō in the late 19th century from several traditional styles of jujutsu, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, which was in turn derived from earlier (pre-World War II) versions of Kodokan judo"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jujutsu

Something interesting there that I didn't realise is that BJJ from that article appears to stem from a form of Judo so would explain the lack of striking.

As you say in a lot of the competitions there isn't an emphasis on striking as the sport versions of Juijitsu tend to steer away from it. Certainly the rules I've been advised on from guys I train with is that once you take hold of an opponent in Juitjsu you don't keep striking, guess that makes it a bit more gentlemanly. Unlike the eye gouges, ear pulling and vicious locks they show you haha.

You're right about ground fighting, the last thing you need is to deliberately put yourself on the floor in a real life situation. That said one thing that I was never taught in Kung-Fu was that aspect. In real life some drunken tw*t wouldn't hesitate to kick you when your down so good to know standing and groun fighting. As impressive as Judo is it's one of those arts I always thought was too limited to being purely defensive.


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

ZKRJJ has ground fighting in it and also defenses against being attack whilst on the ground. I have seen Black belts fight off 3 or 4 attackers from the grounded position. Usually by kicking (gently- it's training) the standing knee of an attacker out sideways. There is always a finish too. Don't want them getting backup. Also knife, gun and bar attacks.

I loved it. If it didn't take up a whole evening and was over an hour from my house, i'd still be there.


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Irrespective of all of this, why is my Juijitsu training never like this....


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