# "Polish until the residue goes clear" - Pictorial Explanation



## Dave KG

I am often asked what is meant by saying "polish until the residue goes claer" with refernce to machine polishing and its something that is quite hard to explain in words so I have got a couple of photographs to heopefully show what I mean about the residue being clear.

But first, an explantation of why/ Many people are very surprised by the sheer number of passes I will make with a rotary polisher or PC polisher on an area to work a polish. With the rotary, you will frequently see me making up to 15 passes, which to some will seem like an insane amount! However, there is method to the madness! :lol:

The reason for working polishes for so long is to get fully break the abrasives in the polish down. A medium grade polish like Menzerna Intensive Polish has abrasives in it which start out with a reasonably large degree of cut. As the polish is worked, the abrasives break down and become finer and finer and the amount of cutting they do becomes less and less... Its rather like going through the grit levels on wet sand paper from coarse to fine, but doing it automatically. After a significant number of passes, the abrasives in many medium polishes on the market today become very fine, like those in a more fine abrasive finishing polish so what you effectively have is a psuedo finishing polish which you can continue to work to refine your finish and in many cases this negates the need to follow with a lighter abrasive polish... You just thoroughly work the medium abrasive polish until the abrasives break down to being very fine and use the then fine abrasives to refine your finish. Indeed, even aggressive compounds like Power Gloss and G3 can be made to finish down LSP ready (by rotary).

So, how does this work in practice? Well, everybody's technique varies, this is my personal rotary (and PC is similar) method...

First of all, how much polish to use? One of the most common mistakes when machine ;polishing and I think we have all made it is using far too much polish. This means you will be there into the next decade trying to break it all down thoroughly! Okay, not quite, but in actual fact the amount of polish required for a section is very small. To start a pad off, I will but a small X of polish on the pad (two thin lines in a cross, about 3 or 4" long). This is a large amount of polish which starts the pad off if you like, and generaly a little spritz od quick detailer to avoid polishing with a dry pad. There after, with the Menzerna (and many other polishes), two small beads the size of a skittle/smartie is enough to polish an area of 18" - 24" square:



If you use too little polish you will know as the polish wont spread easily over the area and will dry out quickly, if you use too much polish it will clot on the pad and you can end up with little chunks of polish being thrown out from the pad. On the rotary, this can induce buffer hop, and give splatter especially at higher speeds. Remember when working with both PC and rotary to regularly spur the pads to remove old polish dust if they start to become clotted, and it keeps the pad "fresh" so the quality of your finish doesn't deteriorate over time. Always check your just polishes areas under a bright light such as the Brinkmann to ensure you have left a crystal sharp finish and have achieved the defect correction your looking for, remember that some areas of paint can behave differently from others if the car has been repsrayed.

Now, down to the polishing itself:

Spreading the polish at low speed (600rpm) > This just spreads the polish around so that it is ready to work, you can see the resiude of the polish is cloudy and very abviously "on the paint"



Now, the speed is stepped up to medium speed (1200rpm) > This begins to work hte polish and starts the cutting process to remove the paint defects.

Medium to high speeds used next (1500 - 1800rpm) > This is where the lion's share of the work is done defect removal wise. The main cut of the polish is used by around ten passes at these speeds to thoroughly work the polish and get the best cut possible. The abrasives are breaking down all the time during this and the cut getting less and less, so while the defects are being removed, the finish achieved is getting better and better as the process goes on. After this, the resude can be seen to be taking on a much more clear look:



Now, speeds lowered to slow to medium (900 - 1200rpm) > this is where the finishing takes place. When te residue is going clear, the abrasive left in the polish are very fine - like having a finishing polish. Working these remaining abrasives at slow speeds refines your finish, remmoves any light hologramming that may be in the finish from the cutting stage and just adds a little bit of crystal clarity to the finish. After these passes, the residue can be seen to be clear, a bit like having spread glycerol on the paint:



NOw, the polish is fully broken down and fully worked, and the finish achieved from a medium abrasive polish is crystal sharp and LSP ready without the need for a dedicated finishing polish:



Noe as mentioned at the start, everyone's technique differs considerably when rotary polishing and this is simply an outline of the methods I use and pics of the residue as I work - it will not be the same as other rotary user's here but is what works for me and delivers me the results I am looking for. Indeed, using this pseudo finishing polish technique (using the fine broken down abrasives of a coarser polish at the end of the cutting stage) had negated the need for a dedicated finishing polish as I find negligible improvement finsihing with a lighter abrasive polish over a thoroughly worked medium abrasive. This is even true on softer paints. Indeed, the ony time I use lighter abrasives now are when less cut is required during the cutting stages and I dont want to remove as much paint as a medium polish would remove - for example, when there is only light marring.


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## gerry connelly

Excellent write-up as usual Dave


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## uberbmw

Quality write up there chap


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## Blueworm

You need a statue Dave with a PC in one hand and a bottle of polish in the other! Cracking write up as ever :thumb:


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## bigsyd

DAVE M8, top write up, but is there any chance you can inc a pic of how much polish you use on a pad, i always think i am using to much..cheers


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## dubbers

Great write up & photo's. Thanks for the explanation.


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## -ROM-

Great write up, you really have the nack of writing in terms simple enough for everyone to understand but not missing any of the all important technical detail.


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## [email protected]

Great write as already mentioned, is there any chance of a pc speed comparison guide, im guessing 600rpm is approx 3 on the pc dial.

Cheers. Graham.


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## streaky

DaveKG does it again. Thanks .


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## MattFletcher

Great Writeup!!


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## khakis

Great work.
Thanks Dave :thumb: :thumb:


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## Sh00ter

really usefull post, many thanks!


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## Skodaw

Dave, where on earth do you find the time to do this ?? -- A very clear discription of the term.


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## TPR1966

Another great write up Dave and great reading, will try this method soon seeing as we are getting better weather now :thumb:


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## Fat Audi 80

How do I know if I am not using enough product? I am learning to use my PC and the biggest thing I worry about (I don't know why!) is that I am not using enough product that this will scratch/marr/damage the finish.

For example what quantity of Menzerna would you use to PC a 2ft sq area?

Cheers,

Steve

P.S. Quality write as usual.... :thumb:


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## Dave KG

I will add a little bit about polish quantities to the write up guys... :thumb:


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## Fat Audi 80

Thanks Dave. You are "on it" as usual.

Cheers,

Steve


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## TriBorG

Great write up Quanity of product used is a good idea as I am sure that I am using to much


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## Dave KG

There we go!


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## Ducky

Very handy, I can't believe how little compound you use after the initial 'X'. I always seem to not have enough, but looking at that I've been lashing it on. Will reduce the amount in future.
cheers Dave! :thumb:


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## Chris_4536

Superb info Dave! Hats off to you!!


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## Neil_S

Great info for the beginner as always Dave! :thumb:


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## Scud

Another great break down by the guide master.......Nice one Dave


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## The Big Yin

Nice one, im jut learning with a rotary and find all this information really helpful my technique is getting better and better as the time goes by and so are the results


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## Scud

This should be sticky


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## leistrum

It's all been said already, but thanks a lot Dave! I haven't got my polisher yet, waiting for the Menzerna at moment and the DW review of the 'Flex XC 3401'. But with this kind of help once I have got them there is much more chance of me getting it right first time - invaluable! Cheers Ian


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## Scud

leistrum said:


> It's all been said already, but thanks a lot Dave! I haven't got my polisher yet, waiting for the Menzerna at moment and the DW review of the 'Flex XC 3401'. But with this kind of help once I have got them there is much more chance of me getting it right first time - invaluable! Cheers Ian


But not like that


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## Mark M

Excellent Dave,

Just as if it were a demo day, an idiot proof read.

These pictures have certainly been missing from the forum.

Dave's finishing with the rotary is awesome.

leistrum, I would still practice a lot before going straight to a detail with rotary. Just to get a feel for the machine etc, and try and see what defects you can remove on scrap panels. No danger.

I would thoroughly recommend that anyone travels to see Dave, or persuade him to make the journey for you with good rewards.


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## John-R-

Awesome :thumb: 

Just figured that I used too much on my first attempt with my PC as there was little bits of Menz coming off the pad, I was using 4/5 small spots on the pad, next time I'll use 2/3.
Quick question, should I spritz the pad regulary?

Thanks

John


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## Dave KG

John-R- said:


> Awesome :thumb:
> 
> Just figured that I used too much on my first attempt with my PC as there was little bits of Menz coming off the pad, I was using 4/5 small spots on the pad, next time I'll use 2/3.
> Quick question, should I spritz the pad regulary?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> John


With the ceramiclear Menzerna polishes (PO85RD3.0x, PO106FF, PO85RD), there is no need to spritz the pad regularly as they are very well lubed and will break down ideally with no additional lube.


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## Summit Detailing

Awesome guide Dave:thumb:


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## John-R-

Dave KG said:


> With the ceramiclear Menzerna polishes (PO85RD3.0x, PO106FF, PO85RD), there is no need to spritz the pad regularly as they are very well lubed and will break down ideally with no additional lube.


:thumb:

Cheers Dave

John


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## leistrum

> leistrum, I would still practice a lot before going straight to a detail with rotary. Just to get a feel for the machine etc, and try and see what defects you can remove on scrap panels. No danger.


Thanks V12MSM, I'll give it a go on the wifes old polo first !(mind you the laquers through on one Panel already!). Good advice, I've also got to attempt some stone chip/wetsanding repairs on mine - bit nerve wracking but I've ordered the 3000 grit from polished Bliss so hopefully won't be posting any tales of woe!I'm liking the job youdid I think with the menzerna 106 (ithink?) on the black bmw paint about same age as mine so when I do give it a whirl I will try that. cheers Ian


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## trionic

The video here shows very well how the goop looks once it's been broken down:





Is there a risk of damage if a PC newbie over-works a product?


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## C6REW

Thanks Dave, that helps a great deal for me as a relative newbie.

Regards

Chris


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## Captain Morgan

Great write-up again, data like this will see a pc in my hands soon!


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## SURFERROSA

See, scientists can write.

Magic Dave.:thumb:


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## *MAGIC*

top job mate


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## westie

Great photos, very useful. As the say a picture tells a thousand words, and your photos show it should be done.


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## Dream Machines

davo, that is a brilliant write up and such lovely pics.
I do this for a living but didn't know about backing off to 900 rpm to finish
there was a panel and rear bumper that needed doing on my car so I did them today by my makita rotary after reading your guide this morning. 

the results after my scratchinator abolish product (2000 grit) with LC white CCS, Blackfire 106FF with LC black eurotech and 106FF with ultra gloss superpolish and driven to perfection glaze was awesome. scenery looks like it does from our own eyes except for a little OP

thanks


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## moose39

Fantastic advice, i was struggling with the swirls on my BMW using Menz 3.02 and SFX 1 & 2 pads. I read this and tried it on the bonnet last night and it worked a treat.


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## vpricey

Great write up once again Dave!!:thumb: Cant wait to give it a go again tomorrow morning!! 

Just got to save up for a Makita now and flog the Silverline. The changing speed thing under pressure is doing my head in!!:wall: 

Nice one tho Dave!!


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## Pete.

great guide there, just the sort of thing i was looking for to help me with my own rotary polishing using my makita!


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## Bence

I just read your tutorial Dave and I think that people are quite surprised by the "sheer number of passes" because you use the term "pass" a bit differently. While I think it is generally a good terminology, lots of people confuse your descriptions with the usual Autopia-interpeted "pass", where this term means one complete application (putting on polish/working it in/remove).


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## Finerdetails

great report Dave


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## mneame

being new to all this, i found this very helpful.

cheers

matt.


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## Dave KG

Bence said:


> I just read your tutorial Dave and I think that people are quite surprised by the "sheer number of passes" because you use the term "pass" a bit differently. While I think it is generally a good terminology, lots of people confuse your descriptions with the usual Autopia-interpeted "pass", where this term means one complete application (putting on polish/working it in/remove).


Yep, I'm aware of the differences, it seems a more UK based terminology to use pass as one pass over the ares (makes more literal sense after all), and the word "set" to describe a set of passess.... So on autopia, "set" generally equals "pass".

That said, from detailing demos, many folk are suprised by just how long a polish should be worked for.


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## Bence

...especially when you demo for certain rotary-jedis... I know... there is a special facial expression when you show up, when you start and when you show them the difference - latter one is incomparable!

I like the hit & pass version more than the Overseas one.


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## trionic

Dave KG said:


> regularly spur the pads to remove old polish dust if they start to become clotted, and it keeps the pad "fresh"


Could you explain what you mean by "spur"?

Also, could you translate the rotary speed into PC speeds? Thanks


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## nortonski

Useful write up that applies to both DA & Rotary! Thanks


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## Bence

trionic said:


> Could you explain what you mean by "spur"?
> 
> Also, could you translate the rotary speed into PC speeds? Thanks


There is a device called pad spur which looks like 4-5 cogs from a bicycle on a common axle, and you can hold it like the Brinkmann Xenon. It is for removing caked up polish from wool pads. Dave's recommendation is spot on, but don't try to spur a foam pad... It will be an enlightening experience !

For foam pads a toothbrush or similar brush will be perfect, but you can wash your pads after a couple of panels too.

The speeds of the rotary cannot be translated directly into PC speeds. The are fundamentally different, so there is a lot more than just speeds.


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## Mr OCD

Excellent write up Dave... my methods are pretty much the same and like you dont feel a finishing polish is necessary 99% of the time... 

I have tried despite my thoughts and side by side cannot see any improvement!! 

It obviously saves alot of time too that the customer doesnt need to pay for...


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## ZrS

Very good explication for not have holograms !

thanks Dave


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## ianc61

The more I read the more I want a PC or similar


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## Gunn79

Great write up - Will be putting the advice into action tomorrow for the 1st time.


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## MickCTR

Thats superb dave. That's just saved me posting a fresh thread for some advice before I tackle mums Mondeo with the Silverline! :thumb:


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## Bulla2000

Excellent write up. Thanks a lot for sharing Dave.


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## tsantoro

Really great post Dave. It explained to me why I had less than satisfactory results the first time I used my pc and menzerna ( I used too much polish ).


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## Soundstorm

Great write up, realy explains a lot when you can see the pictures.

In the beginning, I always used too little product, as everybody on here always told not to use too much. This meant that the panels just got covered in dry product. I usualy sprayed QD on them to make it liquid again. But the cutting effect wasn't the same (dues to oils in the QD probably).

So now I use more product, and it works better. Only one problem, when the product is going clear, I slow down my PC to speed 2. But instead of going more clear, it turns cloudy again. And it looks like I just spread out new product, and it works like it too.
Is there an explenation for this?


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## riz

should make this a sticky, really good espec with alot of ppl with a g220 and megs # 83/80
oh and no menton of dusting here? i got to the glycerol like stage and not any real dusting!!


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## djpaolotopaz

Great right up, explains alot as I wasn't getting the cutting I thought I would out my new Megs 220 with Megs 83&80.

I'm having a bit of a baptism of fire as my boss' car is a 05 Vanquish S and last night a friend of his asked me to do his 04 575 Marenello!

I find the paint very hard on the 07 ML which is Obsidien Black, I managed to cut out some of the small scratches but the deeper ones remain.

I think I've been using too much product and hence it's not breaking down enough.

My own car is a 07 R32 and i can see from the photos that Steve photographed
he was working on the aqua blue R32, did you find the paint responsive to cutting? will I be able to remove the minor swirl marks on my R32 with Megs 83 and 80?

many thanks

Paolo Topaz

www.djpaolotopaz.com


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## defiant

As usual an excellent post Dave.

When you put the initial 'X' on the pad though (before you put the two small beads on to work a small area), do you work this amount into the whole bonnet for example. I may be missing something here but how much of an area do you work with the initial 'X', before working a 24" area with the two small beads of polish (per the picture)? :thumb:


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## Dave KG

The X I will work on an area just as small as usual, just using a little more polish to start off with to prime the pad... once its loaded like this, its just a case of topping up the pad with polish, hence the couple of dots for every following section.


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## robna

Great writeup! :buffer: 

Thanks Dave :thumb:


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## superstring

Dave, great write-up! I'm wondering, however, if one can thoroughly break down a polish such as IP with a PC (even if it takes a long time) or does it take a rotary to get the kind of results shown here?

Also what type of QD do you use to mist the pad initially? Carnauba based? Acrylic? Referring to IP, I've heard people say use a QD, don't use a QD - use water, and don't use anything - it interferes with the way the polish works.


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## Dream Machines

With a PC, it might take some time but definately could
I don't mist the pad, I mist the surface half way through polishing step to make it last longer and spread better.


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## Kaban

Thanks for taking the time to write this up. You're the man!


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