# Spraying my Hilux



## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

I have been restoring my beloved Mk3 Toyota Hilux over the past 6 months or so, everything mechanically is as new and chassis, axles etc are all epoxied and shiney. I am now finally at bodywork stage, filling sanding etc.

Ive decided to finish it in a satin matt olive drab topcoat.

I have done a bit of spraying on boats before but I feel this will need a bit more finesse to get it looking right so....

I have a selection of Devilbiss guns.

Air fed Mask.

3m Combination filter masks.

3hp 150 Litre Belt Driven Compressor and another smaller one to run the air fed mask.

Heaters and an extractor fan.

Im guessing its adequate for what I want to do and just wanted some good advice on the best way to go about things really.....

Top coat is single pack and idealy I wanted to clear coat it with a matt 2k.

Any help and advice would be great.


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

I'd make sure all your prep work is right as its this that will make the paint job, more time you spend on prep work better your paint will look.
With these Matt clear coats one thing I will say is that there's no room for error, everything must be spotlessly clean, because you can't flat any bits out of the clear, if you get runs it will have to be done again, because it's Matt you can't flat and polish it. You only have one chance with it. 

Is there any advice your specifically looking for.


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

Andyb0127 said:


> I'd make sure all your prep work is right as its this that will make the paint job, more time you spend on prep work better your paint will look.
> With these Matt clear coats one thing I will say is that there's no room for error, everything must be spotlessly clean, because you can't flat any bits out of the clear, if you get runs it will have to be done again, because it's Matt you can't flat and polish it. You only have one chance with it.
> 
> Is there any advice your specifically looking for.


Thanks for your reply mate.

My prep will be near perfect before I start spraying.

The single pack top coat will be satin matt also so im guessing I will have only one chance on the top coat also..?

Im thinking to just tack rag, dust coat, let it tack a bit and then thin coats on intervals until im satisfied..?

Ive been told by the coachworks down the road that I cant flat the matt topcoat but I can flat the 2k matt clear coat as it is designed for flatting and it will still stay matt.

Is that not correct?

Thanks


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

Rather than do the 2k clear coat is there a wax available that I could protect the single pack topcoat with and live with it..?


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

The colour coat will dry Matt as its basecoat. Yes that would be best way tacking between colour coats, but just apply a very light pressure to the tack cloth when doing it, as the basecolour will mark easily with a tack cloth. 
No you can't flat Matt laquer, if you do the flatting marks will show, and it can't be polished out as it will end up being shiney.
We spray Matt clears at work and we have never even attempted to flat our Matt clear as it won't work.


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

Andyb0127 said:


> The colour coat will dry Matt as its basecoat. Yes that would be best way tacking between colour coats, but just apply a very light pressure to the tack cloth when doing it, as the basecolour will mark easily with a tack cloth.
> No you can't flat Matt laquer, if you do the flatting marks will show, and it can't be polished out as it will end up being shiney.
> We spray Matt clears at work and we have never even attempted to flat our Matt clear as it won't work.


It seems I need your advice before I pick up my gun so I get it right first time then mate....

I would rather just spray and walk away than mess about flatting stuff.

Thanks.:thumb:


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

No problems mate, when your nearly ready to paint let me know or pm me, will help in any way I can. :thumb:


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

*400 grit too smooth?*



Andyb0127 said:


> No problems mate, when your nearly ready to paint let me know or pm me, will help in any way I can. :thumb:


Sitting here staring at my truck bed.....

Underneaths sprayed, so thats out the way.










Outer panelling has had all minimal surface rust ground out, filled, etch primed and keyed up with 240 grit.

I dunno if im being over fussy before my cellulose high build basecoat cos Ive started wet and drying it now with 400... thing is it looks a bit shiny and im slightly concerned the primer wont adhere proper....

any opinions would be great.

Cheers


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Underneath looks good nice job. :thumb:

What primer have you used is it 2k or celly. Process for flatting primer we use is mostly dry flatting it will first be flatted with p320 then, we guide coat it again flat with P500 then for finishing all the edges we will do them wet using a P1000 abralon and finish the panel with thousand abralon aswell, gives the primer a smoother finish prior to painting. :thumb:


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

Andyb0127 said:


> Underneath looks good nice job. :thumb:
> 
> What primer have you used is it 2k or celly. Process for flatting primer we use is mostly dry flatting it will first be flatted with p320 then, we guide coat it again flat with P500 then for finishing all the edges we will do them wet using a P1000 abralon and finish the panel with thousand abralon aswell, gives the primer a smoother finish prior to painting. :thumb:


Decided on Upol P88 cellulose for the primer mate, I only went down to bare metal in minimal places on the bed so most of the original factory paint is left underneath that.

I dont want to spray 2k in The workshop unless its compulsory.

However, I have given the bed and over rails a coat of 2k epoxy for durability.

Heres where I am on the pick up bed......










Would you dry or wet sand before nitro cellulose olive drab satin topcoat Andy?

Im thinking 600 grit..??

Thanks for your replys.


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Be a lot easier to wet sand it mate, personally of use 600 then 800 to fit it with. Looks good so far tho be nice to see the end product.


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

Andyb0127 said:


> Be a lot easier to wet sand it mate, personally of use 600 then 800 to fit it with. Looks good so far tho be nice to see the end product.


Would you sand between cellulose topcoats Andy..? Or just lay a few coats at intervals, sand the last one and a final light coat to get the satin effect..?

Sorry to badger you mate but Ive spent a few hours on the bed and It would be nice to get it looking half decent.

Thanks again


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

J.D said:


> Would you sand between cellulose topcoats Andy..? Or just lay a few coats at intervals, sand the last one and a final light coat to get the satin effect..?
> 
> Sorry to badger you mate but Ive spent a few hours on the bed and It would be nice to get it looking half decent.
> 
> Thanks again


I wouldn't sand between coats, what I'd do is put around four coats on, then sand it and apply two final coats this should give you the finish you want.

Not a problem ask what ever you want mate. :thumb:


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

Sanded with 600 all over and let it sit for a few days.....

Undercoats changed colour slightly, Im guessing it takes a few days to go off proper.

There are a couple VERY minor indentations in one place on the passenger side panelling of the bed, I'm a bit pissed off I missed them to be honest but Im thinking if I scratch up the undercoat, water up a bit of filler with resin and smooth them out that will be ok..?

Ive been busy tonight putting the propshafts back on underneath but I'll try and get the cab undercoated and both the bed and cab sprayed at the weekend and keep ya posted...

Ive bought the olive drab (satin/eggshell) from Lechler, im assuming they sell good paint..?

Regards


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

J.D said:


> Sanded with 600 all over and let it sit for a few days.....
> 
> Undercoats changed colour slightly, Im guessing it takes a few days to go off proper.
> 
> ...


Yes mate celly primer do have a tendency to change colours, but it also could be due to at atmospheric conditions ie damp/raining/ moisture in the air, which is very common in celly it's known blooming where the paint will go a white/hazy shade. 
I wouldn't be pissed of youve found it while it's still in primer, so can easily be rectified. Would of been worse if it was top coat.
Lechler paint yes mate I can't rate them enough, fantastic paints I use there laquer all the time. :thumb:


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

Andyb0127 said:


> Yes mate celly primer do have a tendency to change colours, but it also could be due to at atmospheric conditions ie damp/raining/ moisture in the air, which is very common in celly it's known blooming where the paint will go a white/hazy shade.
> I wouldn't be pissed of youve found it while it's still in primer, so can easily be rectified. Would of been worse if it was top coat.
> Lechler paint yes mate I can't rate them enough, fantastic paints I use there laquer all the time. :thumb:


Ive suffered blooming when spraying epoxy paint outdoors on boats so Im guessing its the same theory as cellulose as I use the same thinners...

I keep the workshop around 27 degrees when im spraying in here and the epoxy on the truck has gone on lovely without any milking so im guessing its not an issue in here and that it was just the undercoat setting.

Ive gone over the couple of annoying marks with a razor blade and some resined down filler, etched, re primed and sanded so its ready to go.

Ive got 10 litres of olive drab here to spray in two 5 litre cans..... I know its loads but I didnt want to risk getting on the last wing, have to touch up in the future or summin and run out of paint....

Im guessing I should mix them both together and strain them in case theres a slight difference...?

They were both mixed to BS 298 381C.

Thanks again.

and....

Im confident with both suction and gravity guns but what would you say sprays cellulose better Andy..?

Im just not confident or had enough experience with cellulose colour coats.


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Ideally the temperature should be around 20-22 degrees. 
Yes I would definaly mix the two 5ltrs together, as you said last thing you need is a slight colour difference. 
Spraygun wise mate it's what ever you feel more confident using, spraying celly is fairly straight forward, it's basically the same as spraying a solvent basecoat solid colour, it really just needs to be nice even coats. :thumb:


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

Andyb0127 said:


> Ideally the temperature should be around 20-22 degrees.
> Yes I would definaly mix the two 5ltrs together, as you said last thing you need is a slight colour difference.
> Spraygun wise mate it's what ever you feel more confident using, spraying celly is fairly straight forward, it's basically the same as spraying a solvent basecoat solid colour, it really just needs to be nice even coats. :thumb:


Ok so......



















Paint went on lovely although I have some very slight orange peel....










I know this sounds a bit Neanderthal but I quite like the textured look of it being a truck and all that...

Although part of me wants to flat it, would you sand this out or polish Andy?

Thanks again for all your help.


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

I would like to add Andy that the photo of the orange peel looks ALOT worse than from the naked eye... its hardly noticable. Plus I didnt sand between coats, I laid on six coats.

Im weighing up my options

1. Leave it and dont cry when I drive down a country lane and scape a few hedges (I do alot of shooting)

2. Wet sand and Buff but im concerned I will loose some of the satin finish

3. Sand with 1000 grit and shoot a couple of light 25/75% thinner coats on it

The plot thickens....


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

J.D said:


> I would like to add Andy that the photo of the orange peel looks ALOT worse than from the naked eye... its hardly noticable. Plus I didnt sand between coats, I laid on six coats.
> 
> Im weighing up my options
> 
> ...


Hi mate.
Trouble you will find mate is that if you do flat and polish it, as you said it will loose its satin finish.
I'd definatly go with the applying another couple of coats, but that said if your happy with it the way it is leave it. It's hard to know what to do but what you've done so far looks great good work, it's one of those situations that's hard to know what to do for the best, honestly if it look good at the moment then leave it as it is. 
:thumb:


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

Andyb0127 said:


> Hi mate.
> Trouble you will find mate is that if you do flat and polish it, as you said it will loose its satin finish.
> I'd definatly go with the applying another couple of coats, but that said if your happy with it the way it is leave it. It's hard to know what to do but what you've done so far looks great good work, it's one of those situations that's hard to know what to do for the best, honestly if it look good at the moment then leave it as it is.
> :thumb:


So I clay barred one side today and polished it and I REALLY DONT like the shine on it although the paint is very flat (orange peel is gone)

I want to keep the satin look so I guess my only option is to light wet sand and shoot a couple more light coats on it and hope they go on smooth.

What grit would you use to sand now Andy?

Am I better off upping the thinner content on the next spray to reduce the orange peel or more paint content and a gun with say a 1.8mm tip...??

Or what...??

Thanks again


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

I would flat it with P1000, that should be more than enough and leave a smooth surface.
Spraygun set I wouldn't use 1.8 set up, you would be better using 1.3 or 1.4 it will give a finer finish. Which should make the paint sit flatter. Another three coats should be enough. Celly mix ideally should be 50/50 but most I'd to to is 60/40 no more than 60% thinners. That should be fine to make it sit flatter. It may of been the gun setup as I don't even use a 1.8 set up for primer. All my gun set ups for basecoat and clear coat are all 1.2 the set up I run for primer is only 1.6.


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

Andyb0127 said:


> I would flat it with P1000, that should be more than enough and leave a smooth surface.
> Spraygun set I wouldn't use 1.8 set up, you would be better using 1.3 or 1.4 it will give a finer finish. Which should make the paint sit flatter. Another three coats should be enough. Celly mix ideally should be 50/50 but most I'd to to is 60/40 no more than 60% thinners. That should be fine to make it sit flatter. It may of been the gun setup as I don't even use a 1.8 set up for primer. All my gun set ups for basecoat and clear coat are all 1.2 the set up I run for primer is only 1.6.


Sorry if my previous post sounded a bit 'out there' I was probably thinking a bit too much about it all...I was somehow thinking that laying on more paint with a thicker tip would help flatten it.

I had a break from it for a couple of days.

I had to use a 1.8mm tip with the P88 primer without having to thin it too much. I sprayed the panels with a Devilbiss gun and 1.3mm fluid tip, so I guess I will stick with that gun. Im thinking now that if I have a few adjustments and reduce the fluid control on the gun after sanding with 1000 to atomize the paint more that would help to make it lay flatter.

And move across the panel a bit slower....

Does that make sense? or am I still away in 'sprayland'.

Thanks again

Im spraying at 30 PSI would you raise that?


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

No makes sense mate. Yeah I would stick to using the gti, your always going to get a certain Ammount of peel to the paint. 
You should aiming to be spraying at around 2bar, that the pressure we use at work as it replicates the original paint finish.


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

Andyb0127 said:


> No makes sense mate. Yeah I would stick to using the gti, your always going to get a certain Ammount of peel to the paint.
> You should aiming to be spraying at around 2bar, that the pressure we use at work as it replicates the original paint finish.


So with spraying cellulose you would say very slight orange peel is unavoidable..?

I suppose it is a trade off if you want a satin finish with cellulose then.

Ive done the panels with p800 this evening and the paint is very flat although I suspect I will still get some amount of peel when I blow a couple more coats on, Im also suspecting after sanding it will be less visable if I spend a bit more time getting the gun set up right.

To be honest mate I had a couple of slight lines in the paint in one place and a couple of fly legs or summin that have sanded out also so Im glad I didnt leave it....

The pick ups only going to get scratched up again when its on the road but its not the point if you get my drift.

I chucked a very slight amount of pure vegetable based soap in with the water when I wet sanded, It has been well rinsed. If I wipe with Upol system 20 slow degreaser and tack will that be adequate?

Thanks again.


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

*Arrrrrrghhhhhh !!!!*

Went over the bed panels with 800 wet and dry and put 3 more coats on.....

Paint went on very smooth (no orange peel) and I was chuffed to bits with it....

Its been 9 days and now and hairline cracks have appeared in the paint in a few places, its very minimal but I dont want it there. The previous coats of paint didnt crack when I sprayed before.

I have rubbed down into the primer with 400 grit in the areas and the cracks have sanded out.

Would you touch up these areas or re sand the whole panels and spray again Andy?

Im guessing that the undercoat may have been sprayed on too thick in a few areas for this to happen?

Thing is, I dont want these hairline cracks to reappear or appear in other places at a later date so If its best I would prefer to resand down to undercoat and respray.

I was proper pissed off earlier but have calmed down a bit now lol

Cheers


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

Andyb0127 said:


> No makes sense mate. Yeah I would stick to using the gti, your always going to get a certain Ammount of peel to the paint.
> You should aiming to be spraying at around 2bar, that the pressure we use at work as it replicates the original paint finish.


After a bit of thought I decided last week to strip the bed and cab back down to bare metal last week rather than risk any future problems, I was feeling a bit depressed over the few days doing it.

I had some jotun high build epoxy primer here that I use for my boat work and blew that onto both the cab and bed a couple of days ago, I sanded it with 240 grit today and I feel much better, I had a couple of small dings left after so I filled them with a tiny amount of epoxy filler and I will get them sanded tomorow and Im thinking I will chuck another light coat of the primer over the bed and cab.

I have written 'DONT USE ME' with a big black marker pen on the cans of cellulose and put them aside.....

If I 600 grit the last coat of epoxy primer will a 2k synthetic stick to that ok Andy?

And would you be kind enough to point me in the direction of a good paint supplier that can mix it to a satin olive drab?

I can get a very good epoxy mixed to that colour but im obviously concerned about UV damage...

Everything is a learning curve but looking back I dont know what the hell I was thinking with the Upol P88 primer, the joke is, all along my missus was saying to me 'why dont you just use the primer you use for your boatwork??'.

Maybe the cellulose would go onto the epoxy primer better than before but I dont want to risk feeling suicidal again so a 2k is my only colour coat option now.

Thanks again.

MY advice to anybody from experience, USE AN EPOXY UNDERCOAT and dont give it any more thought.


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## nighthawk (Feb 10, 2012)

http://www.warpaint.rrservices.co.uk/
For anything military paint


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

I know how you were feeling mate. I've been there also with things, but I can say that once its finished, you will stand back look at it and think I'm glad I did that all the hours of hard work have been well worth it.

If your looking at the route of 2k, honestly my advice would be to use basecoat, then apply a 2k satin laquer over it. This will have more protection than celly. If your looking at finishing the epoxy with 600, what you could do is apply a wet on wet primer on it first then apply your colour. Wet on wet primers are designed to be painted straight over once dry, no flatting required just nib any bits of dirt In it, then paint as normal.

I'll put a link below for you, ive used this company in the past and found them very helpfull.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...zYCgCQ&usg=AFQjCNFtcSDJNfbvlzSb9Os7bP5obQIAXw


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

Andyb0127 said:


> I know how you were feeling mate. I've been there also with things, but I can say that once its finished, you will stand back look at it and think I'm glad I did that all the hours of hard work have been well worth it.
> 
> If your looking at the route of 2k, honestly my advice would be to use basecoat, then apply a 2k satin laquer over it. This will have more protection than celly. If your looking at finishing the epoxy with 600, what you could do is apply a wet on wet primer on it first then apply your colour. Wet on wet primers are designed to be painted straight over once dry, no flatting required just nib any bits of dirt In it, then paint as normal.
> 
> ...


It becomes a nightmare when things go wrong but I find when corrected it gets alot more enjoyable again.

The Jotun epoxy undercoat is 2k.

Once im happy everything is flat I am planning on blowing a light coat or two of the epoxy on again, and not sand.

And spray a 2 Pack Acrylic UHS solid colour onto that within the time limit.

The cellulose is not an option anymore.

Ive been using the guys in bristol you linked for my abrasives/thinner etc, I will ring them monday and have a chat.

Thanks again and again and again and again.....


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## J.D (Apr 26, 2012)

nighthawk said:


> http://www.warpaint.rrservices.co.uk/
> For anything military paint


Thankyou mate, but after all my hardwork im not going to spray my pick up with a single pack synthetic 'military paint'.

At this moment I love it more than my wife.


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

lol good work sticking in there mate!

btw i would go for a m/s or h/s instead of uhs as you will have alot more controll over application ...most uhs are a gripper coat then 1-2 full coats = chance of runs/sags 

m/s & h/s you can spray 3-4 coats allowing flash time inbetween this allowing you to build up your coats and less chance of runs etc 


tommy


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## Russ and his BM (Jan 1, 2008)

Wonder what happened in the end then?


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