# Call BS on Wash Mitts



## NorthantsPete (May 18, 2016)

Can someone give me evidence to suggest Wash Mitts are better than the common porous sponge?

I fail to believe that a regularly washed/dunked sponge hangs on to anymore grit than a dunked wash mitt. In fact Id go as far to say with a mitt, and all those fibres, you think a dunk will be enough to get the grit out over a sponge that has it on its surface and can easily fall off?

Autoexpresses double bucket method is also called out by many detailing experts as unnecessary - the grit falls to the bottom.

Those buckets with the grids on the bottom - who dunks that far anyhow? and any water-born grit will move around regardless of the 'grid' at the base - unless you walk away and leave your sponge in the bucket, its again a waste of time.


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Just out of interest, what would constitute evidence, in your view? 

For what it's worth my opinion is that it's not so much about whether the sponge or mitt "hangs on to" grit, but whether particles already attached to the paint are removed and held *away* from the paint, or simply moved *over / against* the paint.

Even if an entirely new, clean mitt or sponge was used for each pass over the paint, I believe the sponge would be more likely to inflict damage to the paint because of this.

I'm interested to know who the "many detailing experts" are who are calling out the "double bucket method" as unnecessary?

I tend to agree about the grit guards though.


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2016)

Feel free to wash your car however you like. If you are happy with the condition of your paintwork, then you are washing in the correct manner for you :thumb:. If not, then maybe it's time to think again.


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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

I must admit, I'm not overly impressed with my microfibre mitt. Giving it a proper wash out after cleaning a snowfoamed, jet wash rinsed and two bucket wash, it seems to take ages for the water to run clear. It does make me wonder just how much muck its holding with the chance of it coming into contact with the paint.


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## G51 NAV (Jan 14, 2007)

As has been explained, the theory goes that a typical flat-faced sponge has a greater chance of dragging contaminants across the paintwork than mitts, which are supposedly more likely to lift off contaminants out of harm's way. Here's a simple test: throw a palm-full of sand across your kitchen worktop and drag first a car-sponge across it then a washmitt. Which one of them removes the sand and which one basically grinds it into the work surface? Ok there's a million and one reasons why that's not a perfect analogy, but you get the idea.


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

The guards seem to be abit OTT , they may stop some particals no doubt but as said it won't catch it all and I certainly don't drag the mitt/sponge around the bottom.

I use Both mitts and sponges and never had a issue with either , cold weather a mitt is ideal as your hands being cold may be more likely to drop the sponge. Same principal with a clay bar and mitt. More feeling in your hands in be summer so a sponge/ bar is easier to grip.

if good practices and care is taken using either method i don't see an issue. Each to there own and always will be.


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## mangove21 (Apr 26, 2015)

I always rub the mitt on the guard, you can see the dirt at the bottom of the bucket, I've never seen it in the water.

When you use a sponge it often squeaks, that can't be good surely? I'm no expert but why not just use a good mitt and guard to be on the safe side. Your choice 



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## derbigofast (Dec 6, 2011)

i agree on both sides i prefer mitt and grit guard as my proof is the grit in the bottom of th bucket at the end of the wash thus prooving to some extent that the grit guard is doing something even if not quite what it staits all the time but a sponge dragging grit across paint seems common sense to me not to use and allow the chance also these so called experts every car cleaning expert i know goes far and above just grit guards and mitts they all use heated pressure washers to remove more dirt initially thus removing more chance of wash inflicted scratches and marring i think this guy just wants cheap kit and has a bee in his bonnet about the price good buckets and mitts cost


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## A&J (Mar 4, 2015)

Im gonna say its down to the technique and personal prefference.

You have a very big wash mitt market with some excelent mitts to choose from but on the other hand you also have some great sponge options.

There are some hi-quality sponges on the market that are extra soft / waffle in shape to capture dirt instead of dragging it across paint. Sponges for me release dirt better than mitts. 

Whichever you use is a personal prefference. In both ways the first thing you have to do is to pre-wash so the majority of the dirt is removed before you atack it with a wash media.


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## DJBAILEY (May 7, 2011)

When you use the 2 bucket method you can definitely see that the rinse bucket has dirty water in it and the soap bucket water is still clean after the wash is complete. That has to mean something to you doesn't it. Its all about taking precautions. You could hose rinse your mitt or sponge, then squeeze it out before dunking it back into the soap bucket and probably achieve the same thing. As far as the Grit Guards they are just another precaution. They help keep the rinsed dirt at the bottom of the rinse bucket.


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## Pahm (May 11, 2016)

I was a bit dubious about grit guards at first, until I bought some and realise that the fins stop the water below the guard swirling around and thus bringing any grit etc up above the guard potentially adhering to the mitt/sponge 

I Did a little test by putting shampoo in first and adding water took some effort to mix due to the fins 

Can't comment on the mitts , can say after trying sponge, mf mitt and wool mitt , the wool mitt feels as though it glides better across the car 


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## DLGWRX02 (Apr 6, 2010)

I don't use mitts, I use a Waschpudel, bit of a cross over you might say. So can't really argue the toss on them, BUT two buckets! Yes definitely!, if you think its not worth the effort. Then just go get 2 buckets try it once, and then using a jug take sample of the water afterwards. Its as clear as mud literally. My rinse bucket even after a few pre wash stages and high pressure rinse, is always clearly dirtier. I don't use grit guards as I don't leave me sponge in the dirty rinse water, and I ring my sponge out over the ground after each rinse so even then I keep as much out of the buckets as possible. But if you look at the logic a grit guard it's similar to having them Groynes on a beach, to prevent the moving around grit/sand. 

(obviously the difference being one stops the sand moving across the beach the other stops grit swirling in the water.)


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

Firstly, there are sponges and there are sponges. The flat faced 50p Jumbo sponges or plain old normal ones WILL scratch your paint, but you may not immediately see it because the scratches from the sponge surface itself and from the dirt particles it drags along will be very fine, they will also be cumulative, but a coat of super resin polish will get rid of them for a couple of washes. You are right in that those flat sponges release the dirt easier when rinsed, but that is because they hold it on the surface rather than taking it away, so until you rinse you are scratching paint. A proper wash sponge or mitt or pad or whatever will absorb the dirt particles into its fibres to keep it away from the surface to prevent this damage and so will consequentially require more effort to rinse, but that is entirely the point of them.

I was always sceptical of grit guards too, until I tried one. I was already using the 2bm as the advantages and proof of this method are clear to anyone who has used it properly (as has been mentioned, obviously dirtier rinse water) but I held off on using the grit guards until I saw a youtube video testing various combinations using what looked like red lentils in clear water to show how particles behaved as the water was agitated. Basically as the water is spun the particles rise up from the bottom, with the guard in place this is greatly reduced and with 2 guards it was virtually eliminated. Technique also plays a big part in 2bm/grit guard effectiveness, on one hand you need to agitate the water sufficiently to remove the contamination from the mitt while on the other you don't want to disturb the gunk in the bottom of the bucket.

At the end of the day there is the difference between washing your car every third Sunday of every other month with some fairy in the washing up bowl and properly detailing it. You can clean your car with wet wipes if you want and you'll get rid of the dirt, take it to the local 5 quid hand wash and it will look great, but it won't be as good as it could be. Detailing is exactly what it describes, it is about the details, it's about swirl free paint and clean door shuts, it's about a dressed engine bay and getting the best possible finish on all surfaces, none of which you will get with a 5 quid job or with a cellulose sponge.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Mcpx said:


> The flat faced 50p Jumbo sponges or plain old normal ones WILL scratch your paint


While I agree with nearly everything in your post, Whatever you do, you WILL scratch your paint. It just depends to what extent, it could be swirl central after a couple washes.....or light marring over a period of months. Conventional detailing wisdom, and time tested methods say a minimum of snow foam, 2 bucket method, a wash mitt and light pressure to minimise any scratching.

Incidently if I was forced to use a sponge I would use one of the cheapest available, a grouting sponge. They're exceptionally soft, and with big open pores.


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## MatP (May 24, 2016)

Personal preference. I see the benefits of the grit guard, but I can manage perfectly fine without one. I won't use a normal sponge however, as the flat surface will only drag any grit et al across the paint, a good noodle mit or deep pile microfibre sponge for me so the gets lifted into the fibres safely off the surface.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I feel grit guards are a waste of money and not needed.


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## fozzy (Oct 22, 2009)

Ross said:


> I feel grit guards are a waste of money and not needed.


So did I until I saw how much more dirt was collected at the bottom of the rinse bucket instead of swirling around in the water. Everyone has a choice and a viewpoint.
I've used cheap sponges and expensive ones, the same for mitts, both microfibre and wool. My goto is now the Dooka pad because it holds loads of water, cleans extremely well and can be used gently while still lifting whats left of the crud from the paint after the pre-wash. As for Autoexpress they print a point of view like every other mag or paper, believe what they write or not it's entirely up to the the reader, for me personally I'd rather listen to the 1000's of DW members who's passion is taking car of their pride and joy and make a more 'informed' decision on techniques and processes.

Now I'll wait for the " I don't agree with the Pre-wash stage boys" :lol:


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## tazzzak (Apr 30, 2016)

I put some of my pond filter foam in the bottom of my buckets under the grit guards. If that can hold onto fish poo and algae and bits of food. Then grit isn't going anywhere and doesn't.


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

Bero said:


> While I agree with nearly everything in your post, Whatever you do, you WILL scratch your paint. It just depends to what extent, it could be swirl central after a couple washes.....or light marring over a period of months. Conventional detailing wisdom, and time tested methods say a minimum of snow foam, 2 bucket method, a wash mitt and light pressure to minimise any scratching.
> 
> Incidently if I was forced to use a sponge I would use one of the cheapest available, a grouting sponge. They're exceptionally soft, and with big open pores.


Very true I suppose, however it does kind of illustrate the point. Yes you will scratch your paint regardless of the method/tool you use but by using particular methods/tools you can reduce the degree or severity or even amount of damage done. The op's point was that it doesn't make any difference when the vast majority of experience on here including yours and my own, would clearly suggest otherwise. My point is that to some (probably most in fact) people it really doesn't matter because they just don't look that closely. Most cars look fantastic from 6,5,4,3 or even 2 feet away, but we don't look at them like that, we look at them from 6 inches away, and we can see the difference and are prepared to put in the extra effort to make that difference.


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## MAUI (Feb 1, 2008)

Bero;5141915
Incidently if I was [U said:


> forced[/U] to use a sponge I would use one of the cheapest available, a grouting sponge. They're exceptionally soft, and with big open pores.


I agree, you need a large pore sponge to trap the crud. And a sponge will release dirt faster than a micro fiber mitt.


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## ganwilliams (Jun 15, 2015)

tazzzak said:


> I put some of my pond filter foam in the bottom of my buckets under the grit guards. If that can hold onto fish poo and algae and bits of food. Then grit isn't going anywhere and doesn't.


Nice idea!

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## In House (Dec 3, 2015)

I only accept sea sponge...


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

I have used sponges and wash mits all my time and neither cause damage if used correctly...oh and SHOCK HORROR I have only ever used one bucket (with a grit guard)


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

I use wash mitts, but would use a sponge if i had to.

I also use 2BM, but work on the basis that any grit particles capable of doing damage would swirl round in the water anyway, so i am not convinced that grit guards actually retain grit or serve any purpose.

I do believe that pre-rinse and/or pre-wash are the greatest grit removers and that if you are reasonably carefull and make sure the car is wet before touching it, you wont inflict damage.


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## bigbossw (Jun 10, 2015)

Isn't the idea of a mitt that it can hold loads more water and therefore lubricates the surface more effectively and reduces the chances of scratching too?


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## wilbz11 (Jun 23, 2006)

Both good quality mitts & sponges are perfectly fine if used correctly.


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## Rían P (Jun 2, 2014)

An interesting read.

When i first started to read DW, I was a one bucket, Zip Wax, sponge man. At the start I didn't believe in all this TBM malarky, thinking it was over kill. UNRIL I TRIED IT. And now, I always wash with TBM, three including wheel bucket, and would never ever go back after seeing the dirt in the rinse bucket.

Up until recently, I never did any form of prewash (more so because I didn't have a foam lance). UNTIL I TRIED IT. Now I snow foam before every wash.
Looking back, I'm kind of like why did I not do this before?! Feeling a wee bit stupid.

I don't use grit gaurds as in my mind, dirt particles will float in the water anyway, but I may eventually try them out.

I do think though Mitts are better sponges simply because of the pile that dirt can be suspended before rinsed out.


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

For the grit guard sceptics 




Would love to see this test with a higher water level, the theory seems to be that the purpose of the grit guard is to prevent the water at the bottom of the bucket (where the dirt and contaminants naturally settle) from being disturbed, thereby moving the contaminants back up into the water where they can come back into contact with your mitt. Keeping the mitt near to the top of a full bucket would therefore seem sensible, meaning less agitation of the contaminants and more distance between them.

Of course there is always a third option that I sometimes use for very dirty wheels, instead of using a rinse bucket I will rinse the mitt with running water or even a quick blast from the pw in between dunks in the wash bucket.


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## Matt_Nic (Apr 15, 2011)

NorthantsPete said:


> Can someone give me evidence to suggest Wash Mitts are better than the common porous sponge?
> 
> I fail to believe that a regularly washed/dunked sponge hangs on to anymore grit than a dunked wash mitt. In fact Id go as far to say with a mitt, and all those fibres, you think a dunk will be enough to get the grit out over a sponge that has it on its surface and can easily fall off?
> 
> ...


So you want to wash your car every week with a sponge as well as waxing every 6 weeks?
Wanna use compound from the 80's and a leather chammois too while you're at it?


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## ALANSHR (Jun 29, 2007)

As said above, its all up to the user and how much he wants to do to try to protect.

Generally the evidence could only be provided if the products were used over a period of time in a comparison test with one another in a controlled environment so highly unlikely anyone would want to bother.

For me, its just degrees of benefit, they are all good for cleaning your car but imo things with a deeper pile (sheepskin or microfibre) hold debris deep in the pile whereas Sponges do take debris into their surface, that surface is much closer to the paint and as such runs a higher risk of damage although as has been said with the correct cleaning process (pre-clean, touches wash, hand wash) the difference could be zero.


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## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

Rían P said:


> I do think though Mitts are better sponges simply because of the pile that dirt can be suspended before rinsed out.


People will no doubt argue about mitts vs sponges until he end of time.

Fact is, a decent sponge will draw the dirt up into the pores just as much as the fibres of a mitt.

I once tried a mitt -didn't get on with it all; been using a grout sponge for 8 years with no sign of any damage to the clearcoat - after a thorough threee stage DA polish, I've only been applying Collinite periodically since, so any damage would have been obvious.

Pete is calling BS on wash mitts - whatever the arguments for and against, some of the anti-sponge comments on this thread are certainly BS.


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## Rían P (Jun 2, 2014)

Mugwump said:


> Fact is, a decent sponge will draw the dirt up into the pores just as much as the fibres of a mitt.
> 
> I once tried a mitt -didn't get on with it all; been using a grout sponge for 8 years with no sign of any damage to the clearcoat - after a thorough threee stage DA polish, I've only been applying Collinite periodically since, so any damage would have been obvious.


Just out of interest, what pre-wash (if any) methods do you use? Or is it just grout sponge? I've never really seen or used one so interested in it not marring paint.
What is a decent sponge? Adams sponge? That type because i would never entertain eg Kent style plain ones

On a separate note, will paint hardness have anything to do with this also?


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

Mugwump said:


> People will no doubt argue about mitts vs sponges until he end of time.
> 
> Fact is, a decent sponge will draw the dirt up into the pores just as much as the fibres of a mitt.
> 
> ...


They will indeed argue, but they will also generalise a lot in the process, with the perception being that wash mitts are 'generally' good and that sponges are 'generally' bad, which I would 'generally' agree with. Until you get down to discussing specific products there really is no other way to differentiate, wash mitts are a relatively specific tool and I think its fair to say that there are no truly terrible products on the market. Sponges on the other hand could be anything from a kitchen scourer to the specially engineered open pore car sponges offered by higher end detailing companies, and anything in between just like your grout sponge (which works so well because of its large open pores). However, being more realistic, when Joe Public thinks about a 'car washing sponge' he is generally thinking about the cheap, flat cellulose type sponge sold for pennies, which are definitely bad for your paint.

So if you said to me 'cheapo synthetic mitt from China or professional grout sponge?' I'd say grout sponge. If you said 'wash mitt or sponge' I'd still say wash mitt.


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## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

Rían P said:


> Just out of interest, what pre-wash (if any) methods do you use?


Just pressure washer first (used to use a snow foam through a 'proper' lance until I came to the conclusion it wasn't removing anything more than just pressure washng with plain water). I use a fairly generous dollop of Duragloss in the wash bucket, which seems to keep the sponge fairly well lubricated.

Paint wasn't perfect to start with, but doesn't appear to have deteriorated in the 3 years since it had a going over with the DA.


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## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

Mcpx said:


> They will indeed argue, but they will also generalise a lot in the process, with the perception being that wash mitts are 'generally' good and that sponges are 'generally' bad, which I would 'generally' agree with.


This is really my point - people will argue from the generalised point of view, and the argument goes round and round in circles and achieves nothing - the entrenched generalised view is prevalent in all the sponge/mitt arguments on this forum too


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## evobaz (Aug 28, 2007)

I don't know if I'm reading folks replies wrongly or not but my understanding was that grit guards are also there to help release the dirt and grit from your wash mitt. 

When I'm washing the car, I rub the mitt across the grit guard in the bottom of my rinse bucket. That way, any dirt that its just picked up off the car has a chance to be released off the mitt. It hopefully then falls through and settles in the bottom of the bucket. 

If you don't rub the mitt against the grit guard, who's to say that the dirt you've just picked up on the mitt isn't just going to get dragged across the paint on the next panel?


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

I just "thrash" the mitt in the top half of the rinse bucket. Judging by the colour of the water, it releases the muck pretty well :thumb:


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## ALANSHR (Jun 29, 2007)

evobaz said:


> I don't know if I'm reading folks replies wrongly or not but my understanding was that grit guards are also there to help release the dirt and grit from your wash mitt.
> 
> When I'm washing the car, I rub the mitt across the grit guard in the bottom of my rinse bucket. That way, any dirt that its just picked up off the car has a chance to be released off the mitt. It hopefully then falls through and settles in the bottom of the bucket.
> 
> If you don't rub the mitt against the grit guard, who's to say that the dirt you've just picked up on the mitt isn't just going to get dragged across the paint on the next panel?


i dont think thats what the guard is for, hence why a new slanted guard has been invited, not that I use either, just a 2bm for me, with vigorous swishing of the mitt in the top half of the water to rinse as per steelghosts comment.


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## NorthantsPete (May 18, 2016)

You mean none of you have heard about the 5 bucket 20 sponge method??

Its the ONLY way to avoid dragging dirt around the paint


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## Puntoboy (Jun 30, 2007)

Whilst we're on the subject, MF drying towel or chamois?


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## A&J (Mar 4, 2015)

Different topic Puntoboy but defo MF towels!


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## NorthantsPete (May 18, 2016)

hmm so Ive begun uising the mitt over the sponges and wow - talk about marring!!
Swirl heaven and ive only used it three weeks

Im going back to sponge - i had no problems upto now. No-wonder youre all polishing so much


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

NorthantsPete said:


> hmm so Ive begun uising the mitt over the sponges and wow - talk about marring!!
> Swirl heaven and ive only used it three weeks
> 
> Im going back to sponge - i had no problems upto now. No-wonder youre all polishing so much


Each to their own but in my honest opinion your talking absolute rubbish. :spam:


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## ed87 (Apr 6, 2015)

I have to admit, since using a sponge to wash my car again after using mitts I don't see as much wash induced marring as before, using the same products and same technique (2bm, etc.)


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## bigpapaburgundy (Jul 9, 2013)

It all depends on personal preference, and also some folk will inflict marring with a sponge, some will with a mitt. There is no right or wrong, it's just what people like and prefer to use


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