# Buyer Beware



## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

This is not a name and shame as such, as I don't think I am going to have any issues getting my money back, rather a note of caution, even when dealing with "professional companies"

I have been a customer of a company called Paramount Performance based in slough for a good few years now, and spent, not a small amount of money with them on parts for my XKR...

I decided this was the year to upgrade the brakes to the Brembo versions, as the standard ones are pretty shocking...and looking on their website, they do the full set (front and rear) for £3,000

Again, we are not talking about a small about of cash...but it's a crimbo present to myself, so worth it! :lol: 

So, money was paid, and I had to wait 2 weeks for delivery.... as these had to be sent straight from the supplier... excellent I thought...nice new Brembos....

Fast forward to today, and my massive box arrives, and I eagerly open it up, to see my new big brakes.... I was greeted with this (Iphone photos):





































Well, it doesn't take a superstar to see that these aren't new...and in fact, aren't even reconditioned units! :wall::wall:

So, kept my cool, and phoned up...explained I wasn't happy, they have mis-sold these goods, and as far as I was concerned they are not as described on their website.

I got the usual reply of, I have to speak to the boss... so I gave them 1 hour to reply to me.

While I waited, I phone the trading standards to confirm that I remembered the sale of goods act from my time in retail, and yes I did...

So when I got a call back, and a "kind" offer of taking £200 from the cost (eh...second hand brakes are £800 on the bay of evil  ) I declined their offer and stated that I reject the goods for breach of the SOGA 1979, and as such would like a full refund, and the goods uplifted with 7 days...I explained I would put this is writing, and here it is:



> _Hi xxxxxx,
> 
> Invoice number: 1 - xxxxxx
> 
> ...


I have also sent the letter recorded delivery as stated...

So, just a wee warning to all.... even when you know the people, even when you have done good business before, even when they look and claim to be professional..... Someone always tries to f**k you about..

Keep your eyes peeled people, don't get caught out, and if someone tries it, keep calm, and know your rights...

I'll update the thread as and when they sort it out....

:thumb:


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## Mick (Jan 23, 2010)

hope you get it sorted quickly mate (im sure you will ) :thumb:


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

Whoops.

You got the Work Experience lads last day there didn't you?

So, are you going for an exchange or refund and spend it on something else?


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

sounds like you have done everything you needed to, i know you dont need telling but when they collect the items make sure the drivers leaves you with something to confirm they collected a parcel, 

everyone has a bad day at the office you would think its a cracking sale and they would be bending over backwards to get them swapped over for you now they got to suffer the merchant credit card charges for £6k and nothing to show for it.


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## cbred (May 9, 2011)

good on you for not just accepting the £200 off .It,s about time we all complained about the service we recieve from bad companies these days .


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

shocking!


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

You'd have to be mental to accept the £200 off


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## minimadgriff (Jul 8, 2007)

They are meant to be brand new Brembos?? Whats with the rust on the pad retainer too?

Did they come in the green box? If so, Brembos come in a red box and packed in a very specific way.


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## Osarkon (Feb 20, 2011)

I can't imagine you'd have any problem getting that resolved!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

minimadgriff said:


> They are meant to be brand new Brembos?? Whats with the rust on the pad retainer too?
> 
> Did they come in the green box? If so, Brembos come in a red box and packed in a very specific way.


the first give away was the calipers in bubble wrap! the disks are in green boxes, I never even opened them, no point...

:thumb:


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## minimadgriff (Jul 8, 2007)

Not genuine Brembo discs then just a pattern part. Is it meant to be a proper Brembo upgrade?


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

I don't think you'll have any problems getting your money,you have a genuine complaint.For future reference, if you buy off the internet you are also covered by the distance selling laws,which allow you to reject goods for ANY reason,there doesn't have to be anything wrong with the item you could have simply changed your mind,you don't even have to return the item, just make them available for them to collect.Hope you get it sorted pronto.


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## simon burns (Nov 1, 2011)

Hope u get them sorted soon fella!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

minimadgriff said:


> Not genuine Brembo discs then just a pattern part. Is it meant to be a proper Brembo upgrade?





> Jaguar Brembo conversion, upgrade your brakes with the Brembo Jaguar factory option. This conversion consists of 2 and 4 pot front and rear Brembo callipers, front Brembo pads and large Brembo performance discs front and rear.


:thumb:


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

yep distance selling regulations should cover it, and you should be able to cover any postage costs back to since you have notified them in 7 days, i don't think by law they can refund the cost of the parts and exclude the carriage charges to you


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## RedUntilDead (Feb 10, 2009)

Thats an amazing error:doublesho
Hope you get your refund sorted quickly
Did they give you an explanation, does the correct upgrade/parts exist?
If it was a mistake you think they would be falling over themselves to correct it.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Makes you think they were trying it on hope all gets sorted , the was one big Christmas pressie


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Just a quick update on this...

I've had an email to say that the refund was processed today, and the someone is one the way to collect the goods....

Hopefully this will be the end of it...

And only to be fair to them, they haven't caused any fuss, and got it sorted out quickly... so well done for that...just a shame it had to happen in the first place... 

:thumb:


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

This Brembo Big Brake Upgrade kit, here?

There's no mention of the parts being new. The relatively cheap price of £3k for Brembo all round, and the fact there's no mention of 'new', would lead me to question whether I was getting new, recon, used or pattern. So when you clicked the 'Enquire' button, on their site, they confirmed it was all new Brembo?


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Think you have it the wrong way around mate, I they are used then it must state that. Everthing else on their site is new, so no reason that these shouldn't be.

Just for your info, a full set of used brembos sell for between £800 and £1000 at the moment, and the Jag dealers are selling new ones for not far off £3000



:thumb:


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

The Cueball said:


> Think you have it the wrong way around mate, I they are used then it must state that. Everthing else on their site is new, so no reason that these shouldn't be.
> 
> Just for your info, a full set of used brembos sell for between £800 and £1000 at the moment, and the Jag dealers are selling new ones for not far off £3000
> 
> :thumb:


Exactly, imagine having to ask if something was new, everytime a website didn't say it was. 
I can;t think of ever seeing products advertised and stating they were new, except eBay maybe


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Car Key said:


> This Brembo Big Brake Upgrade kit, here?
> 
> There's no mention of the parts being new. The relatively cheap price of £3k for Brembo all round, and the fact there's no mention of 'new', would lead me to question whether I was getting new, recon, used or pattern. So when you clicked the 'Enquire' button, on their site, they confirmed it was all new Brembo?


The Argos catalog does not state each item is new....but you don't expect to find hairs in the 'new' shaver you bought! And it specifically says "large Brembo performance discs front and rear" which means they should NOT be pattern parts. I would say 3k is reasonable for a Brembo conversion......not 'cheap'.


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> Think you have it the wrong way around mate, I they are used then it must state that. Everthing else on their site is new, so no reason that these shouldn't be.
> 
> Just for your info, a full set of used brembos sell for between £800 and £1000 at the moment, and the Jag dealers are selling new ones for not far off £3000
> 
> :thumb:


Plenty of places sell new, used, recon, all out of one outlet, including Paramount, it would appear. £3000 for new calipers alone, maybe, but this was an entire kit.

So did they mislead you when you inquired further, or did you just presume from their website, that you were getting new?


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

Bero said:


> The Argos catalog does not state each item is new....but you don't expect to find hairs in the 'new' shaver you bought! And it specifically says "large Brembo performance discs front and rear" which means they should NOT be pattern parts. I would say 3k is reasonable for a Brembo conversion......not 'cheap'.


We're not talking Argos, we're talking parts suppliers. Plenty sell a mixture of new, used and recon.

As Cue has already mentioned, £3k would only buy you the calipers new.


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Car Key said:


> We're not talking Argos, we're talking parts suppliers. Plenty sell a mixture of new, used and recon.
> 
> As Cue has already mentioned, £3k would only buy you the calipers new.


You could go to brembo direct and get a front and rear kit, with calipers, disks, pads and lines for not much more than £3k for any car you like


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## minimadgriff (Jul 8, 2007)

vroomtshh said:


> You could go to brembo direct and get a front and rear kit, with calipers, disks, pads and lines for not much more than £3k for any car you like


Not priced up many front and rear Brembo kits have you  :lol:

Audi S4/RS4 - £6990 inc vat

Bentley GT - £6154 inc vat

E36 M3 - £5947 inc vat

E39 M5 - £6156 inc vat

E46 M3 - £6156 inc vat

360 Modena - £8763 inc vat

Range Rover Sport - £7303 inc vat

Lancer EVO X - £6885 inc vat

350Z - £5947 inc vat

Just a selection but Most cars Brembo don't even list front and rear kits for as you don't normally need to upgrade the rears.


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

Right, according to Paramount Performance, the kit comprises of:

*Jaguar Option Brembo Calipers (reconditioned):* Internals of the calliper are stripped and cleaned and any parts that need to be replaced will be and the operation of the calliper is checked. We will leave the original Jaguar finish that came with them to maintain the OE look that most of our Jaguar customers go for. If the customer would like the body of callipers powder coated to remove any chips and scratches or to match a colour scheme, we do offer this for an extra charge.

*Discs:* Not Brembo. New OE quality and the same items that you would get from your Jaguar dealer.

*Pads:* New OE spec pad, the same as the genuine Jaguar items.

Kit also includes new braided flexible brake hoses.

They were honest with me, when I asked. Info supplied by Greg Muldoon (PP MD).

Cuey claims calipers weren't reconditioned(?) and hasn't said if they deliberately mislead him in any further communication, when he ordered them. I agree their website wording could be more descriptive, but I personally would have been asking questions, to clarify exactly what I was getting, before ordering £3000 worth of parts, especially if it was supposedly a full brand new kit of Brembo.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Car Key said:


> Right, according to Paramount Performance, the kit comprises of:
> 
> *Jaguar Option Brembo Calipers (reconditioned):* Internals of the calliper are stripped and cleaned and any parts that need to be replaced will be and the operation of the calliper is checked. We will leave the original Jaguar finish that came with them to maintain the OE look that most of our Jaguar customers go for. If the customer would like the body of callipers powder coated to remove any chips and scratches or to match a colour scheme, we do offer this for an extra charge.
> 
> ...


You have to agree their website is at best vague and at worst outright deceptive! It *clearly* states Brembo pads and disks! Not Brembo quality, equivalent, pattern part, comparable or compatible!



PP website said:


> Jaguar Brembo conversion, upgrade your brakes with the Brembo Jaguar factory option. This conversion consists of 2 and 4 pot front and rear Brembo callipers, *front Brembo pads* and *large Brembo performance discs front and rear*.Delivers a huge increase in stopping power over the standard Jaguar brakes.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Just to carify, as I believe I have already said, full used kits for this car are between £800 and £1000.

At no time during my calls, the invoice or email have they stated that their parts are used or non brembo originals.

Maybe they are now since trading standards are involved.

Not really sure what you are trying to say, or prove Kev, you seem very interested in proving me wrong for some reason... Or maybe you are trying to show me up as a liar or a muppet... Either way I'm touched at all the work you have went to... 

thankfully the trading standards are the company in question agree that they have mis sold an mis lead a customer...

Your keyboard warrior skills have been in vain 

:wall:

:thumb:


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

Bero said:


> You have to agree their website is at best vague and at worst outright deceptive! It *clearly* states Brembo pads and disks! Not Brembo quality, equivalent, pattern part, comparable or compatible!





> Originally Posted by PP website
> Brembo pads and large Brembo performance discs front and rear.Delivers a huge increase in stopping power over the standard Jaguar brakes.


Yep, Brembo pads is wrong. Should read Brembo Compatible Pads at least.



> Originally Posted by PP website
> large Brembo performance discs


The equivalent performance as Brembo? Estate Agent talk being used here, that wouldn't have fooled me, but yep, needs changing.


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> Just to carify, as I believe I have already said, full used kits for this car are between £800 and £1000.


I don't know why you keep saying that, because you didn't get a used kit. It was a kit containing reconditioned and new.


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

minimadgriff said:


> Not priced up many front and rear Brembo kits have you  :lol:
> 
> Just a selection but Most cars Brembo don't even list front and rear kits for as you don't normally need to upgrade the rears.


no, but I've had brembo fronts on 6 cars and never paid more than £1500

So I just assumed 3k is easily doable :lol:


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Car Key said:


> I don't know why you keep saying that, because you didn't get a used kit. It was a kit containing reconditioned and new.


I don't get why your fighting the companies corner, when they have already admitted they were wrong?

And if that's the state of their 'reconditioned' calipers, I'd hate to see them beforehand


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Car Key said:


> I don't know why you keep saying that, because you didn't get a used kit. It was a kit containing reconditioned and new.


Reconditioned are used imho, they might have new parts in them but they're not virgin calipers.


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Glad to hear you got it sorted to your satisfaction Cuey, and let's face it - they were never going to get away with that with you were they? 

Still unwanted hassle though eh mate, and end of the day, yep, you're getting a refund, but you're back at square one without your new brakes


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

vroomtshh said:


> I don't get why your fighting the companies corner, when they have already admitted they were wrong?


They've admitted they're wrong? I'm not fighting anyones corner. I'm trying to make sense of Cueys story, which didn't entirely add up, and your contribution didn't add up either.



vroomtshh said:


> And if that's the state of their 'reconditioned' calipers, I'd hate to see them beforehand


Cuey didn't show any pics of the reconditioning or lack of, just a few cosmetic marks on the outside. Cosmetic reconditioning is an optional extra, as explained by PP.


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

bigmc said:


> Reconditioned are used imho, they might have new parts in them but they're not virgin calipers.


There is a distinct retail difference between used and reconditioned.


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

Glad you got it sorted Cuey :thumb:, only just caught this thread, better late than never


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## vroomtshh (Nov 23, 2009)

Car Key said:


> They've admitted they're wrong? I'm not fighting anyones corner. I'm trying to make sense of Cueys story, which didn't entirely add up, and your contribution didn't add up either.
> 
> Cuey didn't show any pics of the reconditioning or lack of, just a few cosmetic marks on the outside. Cosmetic reconditioning is an optional extra, as explained by PP.


My contribution didn't add up? You came on telling cue all he was in the wrong for not asking if the item was new. I pointed out that if this is the case, it's probably the only website in the world where you have to ask if goods sold are new?
What doesn't add up about it?
And yes, they've admitted they were in the wrong - firstly by offering him money off, and secondly by giving him a refund.

Sounds to me like you have an interest in the company, and by continuing on the way you are, are making them look worse (especially since they dealt with the problem satisfactorily)

As for the cosmetics, they don't say anything about that on the website. 
The first mention of it is when the MD emailed you.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Car Key said:


> I don't know why you keep saying that, because you didn't get a used kit. It was a kit containing reconditioned and new.


are you blind... can you NOT see the pictures?!?

there is no way they are reconditioned...

I still don't see what any of this has to do with you, I don't see your point or understand why you have become an internet detective over it, and going to far as to contact the company in question...

what a strange person you are... :lol:

the company sold me NEW brakes... they sent USED brakes... they have admitted they have made a mistake, said sorry, given me my money back...

what bit of that isn't good enough for you?!?

in fact, don't bother answering, I don't care, and I have no idea why you do...

:thumb:


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