# ONRWW Problems



## CLCC (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi Guys,

I thought that I would try a bottle of ONR Wash & Wax, it sounded like everyone was impressed with ONR, so I thought that ONR with some built in wax would be even better.

I have read the stickies and watched the videos and felt confident enough to try it out, on my mum's car first of course!:lol:

Firstly I set up my spray bottle, I used 1.5 caps for 500ml of cold water. We live in quite a hard water area so I thought that that would be fine. Next the bucket, I used 3 capfuls for 10 litres of warm water.


This is not exactly a before pic, but the other side of the bonnet that didn't get cleaned to see what it started out like.

I started off with half the bonnet on a dirty, grey, Kia Ceed. I liberally sprayed half the bonnet with my spray bottle. Slowly counted to 15, dunked my micro fibre noodle wash mitt into the bucket, squeezed a little bit of water out but it was still very wet. I started near the windscreen and worked my way slowly towards the grill in one continuous stripe, then dunked my wash mitt into the bucket again, agitating the noodles with my fingers to dislodge any dirt and then moved on to the next, overlapping stripe, and continued until half the bonnet was done. I was only using the weight of the wet mitt, rather than putting additional pressure on.

Now I had thought that this would leave it nice and sparkling clean as if by magic. However, the bonnet was still quite dirty with lot of bug splatter. So I repeated the above steps until I had done them 3 times and it is still not clean :wall:



As you can see, the remaining bug splatter is quite obvious.

So I thought that it might just be that this remaining splatter would come off with the moistened MF wipe but even after this step the photo above shows what is left.

So I thought that I would try some of the side panels to see if the came up any better. They were dirty, but obviously you get less bug splatter on the side panels than the front. So again I pre-sprayed, left it for 15-20 seconds and used the wet mitt in one horizontal stripe at the top letting the ONRWW to run down the panel, dunked it back into my bucket and then started on over lapping vertical passes as demonstrated on the video at the end of Lowiepete's sticky _ONR - a General Guide & FAQs_. and below is the results.





So what am I doing wrong? Should I be putting more elbow grease in? Am I expecting too much from the product? Is it my own fault for getting ONRWW instead of the regular ONR?

Thanks in advance.


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## adlem (Jul 6, 2008)

I'd say you're asking too much from the product, it's not designed for heavily soiled cars. Is your mum's car protected at all in any way as that would have helped. Also bug splatter, and what looks like a tree sap type substance in the bottom pic bond quite strongly. Many normal shampoos struggle to clean them off paint


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## Hasan1 (Jul 1, 2011)

adlem said:


> I'd say you're asking too much from the product, it's not designed for heavily soiled cars. Is your mum's car protected at all in any way as that would have helped. Also bug splatter, and what looks like a tree sap type substance in the bottom pic bond quite strongly. Many normal shampoos struggle to clean them off paint


I say that too. 
With bugs I'd soak some towels and place them over for a while to soften them up and make them easier to remove


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## CLCC (Nov 18, 2010)

No I doubt that my mums car had any protection on it, she occasionally takes it to a hand car wash but hasn't in a while so I think everything on there is quite well baked on.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

summer baked bugs probably wouldnt get removed by ay simple shampoo wash - I did my old mans car yesterday after a long drive and even using G3 Detox and a bit of elbow grease there was stuff still there!

Use a pre-wash like Einszett 1z Bug remover and then wash - perfect.


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

ONR is a great product but as with all shampoos, it has its limitations. I think there are several different options here. Firstly, you could use an APC to remove the bugs or maybe use a dedicated bug remover. I would start by increasing the dwell time of ONR and giving the bugs a good soaking. A lot of bugs can be removed by trying to rehydrate them with a liquid. This can take a few minutes so I would zap the bugs with ONR and then start work on another panel. Soaking a towel also works very well


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## GeRoY (Dec 29, 2010)

If im using ONRWW and i have bugs in front, first I soak the bug affected areas with bug remover, wash it with wet microfiber cloth, then i rinse it with water from watering can. If i have a stubborn dirt im cleaning it off with a very light diluted TFR or APC... Then i wash the car with ONR


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## mattyh2013 (Aug 5, 2013)

I've never been able to get rid of all bug residue with ONR.
I always pre spray the little buggers with this - http://www.autoglym.com/products/products/active-insect-remover

Regards


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## CLCC (Nov 18, 2010)

Ok, so I read your advice and thought, ok, maybe I was asking too much, especially with the bugs, and the fact that there was no protection on there before, and because it was a really dirty car. So I thought that I would give it a go on my car. I only bought it a few weeks ago and haven't had time to do a full correction on it yet, so thought that even if it does add some swirls its not the end of the world. It had been washed about 10 days ago with born to be mild and ye olde 2 bucket method, and was wearing some AG EGP and Fast Glass used on the windows

So filled up the bucket again, made sure to give an extra long dwell time on the bugs. Spray bottle diluted 1.5 caps per 500ml of warm water, and bucket with 3 caps for 10L of warm water. 1 noodle mitt and 1 MF towel.

My technique was a generous spray with the bottle, wait 15-30 seconds, dunk wash mitt, squeeze out excess water, one continuous swipe along panel, dunk mitt, agitate noodles, swipe and repeat until panel fully wiped, then a few sprays from the bottle onto the MF and wipe across the panel to dry.

The car was quite clean as it had been jet sprayed yesterday, but had bad water spots on it, like below



above is before, and below is after, the ONRWW is still drying so it dried a bit better but you can still clearly see the water spots which remained.



So was I asking too much for it this time? Cant it handle water spots?


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## peterdoherty (Nov 6, 2013)

You shouldnt be leaving ONR to air dry - you should use a drying towel - thats whats causing the water spoitting


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

peterdoherty said:


> You shouldnt be leaving ONR to air dry - you should use a drying towel - thats whats causing the water spoitting


^^ This. Wash and towel dry one panel at a time if it's too warm and air drying quickly

Or are you referring to the water spots being left from the jet wash you did yesterday?

If so, then you may need a QD or even a light polish to get rid of the spotting.


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## CLCC (Nov 18, 2010)

The water spots are from the jet wash yesterday. So am I meant to use a completely dry towel, after I have used the lightly sprayed MF?


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

If it's been a hot day, then it's possible that the water has baked on a bit after the jet wash, so ONR might not be enough to get rid of the spots. Maybe a QD (or QD strength dilution of ONR) would get rid of them.

Once you've done your ONR wash, use a slightly damp MF and dry the panel. You'd probably find that the moist towel dries better than a bone dry one.


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## CLCC (Nov 18, 2010)

So ONRWW isn't strong enough for dirty cars, cars without protection, bugs, tree sap, bird poo or water spots? Just what exactly is ONR strong enough for then? Washing fresh wax/sealant? I really think that I would have got the same results from regular tap water.

Am I really the only person on DW that doesn't get this product? Perhaps there is someone in the Cambs - Beds - Herts area that can show me what I'm doing wrong.

After I did the ONRWW wash, I wiped it with a slightly damp MF to dry the panel, but a damp MF over a wet panel will leave those small beads that can be seen in between the large water spots from the jet wash.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

CLCC said:


> So ONRWW isn't strong enough for dirty cars, cars without protection, bugs, tree sap, bird poo or water spots? Just what exactly is ONR strong enough for then? Washing fresh wax/sealant? I really think that I would have got the same results from regular tap water.
> 
> Am I really the only person on DW that doesn't get this product? Perhaps there is someone in the Cambs - Beds - Herts area that can show me what I'm doing wrong.
> 
> After I did the ONRWW wash, I wiped it with a slightly damp MF to dry the panel, but a damp MF over a wet panel will leave those small beads that can be seen in between the large water spots from the jet wash.


All I can do is give you opinion based on my experience with ONR and Wolf's Mean Green over the past 2 or 3 years. I've never used W&W so can't say whether these statements are transferrable

I've never had any problems with it on dirty cars or cars without protection.

I've used it to get rid of bugs, but it did take a bit of extra effort. As in a second pre-spray to soak them an an extra couple of passes with the wet mitt.

Bird poo. No problem. Use it all the time. If the poo has been left and etched in, then no amount of shampoo is going to get rid of the stain.

Tree-sap. Again, depends on the severity and the type. If it's light, it should be ok. If it's really stuck on, then you might need something stronger. That could be said of any shampoo though.

Waterspots can be the same as bird poo, if it's particularly hard water and you leave it to bake on, it will stain and you will need something else to rid it. That is not a weakness of ONR.

I don't always get the panel bone dry, but none of my rinseless washes have left me with water spots. Try laying the towel down and patting it rather than rubbing it dry. If you're dampening the cloth with a QD, rather than just water, anything that is left should not dry spotty.


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## isctony (Sep 24, 2008)

I didn't get on with ONRWW either to be honest. I ended up using a lot for every wash - reducing the dilution rate every time (using more ONRWW to Water)

ONR original is great and I now I have finished the ONRWW I will be reverting back!


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## CLCC (Nov 18, 2010)

At least Im not the only one!


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## allenk4 (Jan 24, 2014)

Try the Gary Dean Method. It may fit your style better.

If not...

At a minimum you should be using a 2nd bucket to rinse your mitt before dunking it back into the ONRWW solution bucket. _Grit Guards_ in both buckets offer additional insurance against dirt you removed from the paint making its way back on to the paint via your wash mitt.

IMO microfiber wash mitts act as we ask microfiber towels to act....they attract and HOLD dirt.

I use Two of the _CarPro Merino Wool Wash Mitts_. I believe that when rinsed; they shed the dirt much better than microfiber.

Wash and then lightly buff dry one panel at a time to avoid water spots and the other issues you are having.

Good Luck

Have Fun


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

CLCC, you seem to be having a tough time with this shampoo. I have not tried the ONRWW but a couple of things spring to mind. In terms of waterspots it might be helpful to give this a quick read http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/29134-how-remove-water-spots-hand.html.

Just looking at the second set of pictures I remove more water with a quick swipe of a drying towel. I wonder if your towel is perhaps too wet. My approach for drying is a give a quick swipe with drying towel to remove most of the water and then a quick wipe with a MF cloth. I use OCW with the MF cloth but I guess water or ONR would also do the trick. After this, the paint is dry. There is no one perfect approach, I do what works for me but others will have slight variations. I also do not remove the majority of the water from the mitt.

I am assuming ONRWW behaves exactly like ONR but maybe it does not


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## James Bagguley (Jul 13, 2013)

I have a little ritual these days with ONR, following the wash, a spray and wipe down with QD strength (de ionised water) diluted C2V3.
It normally gets shot of any water marks, also tops up the protection, and leaves that funky smooth feel to the paint, win win in my book.

I know Lowiepete mentions that the polymers in ONR can disrupt the bonding properties of Gtecniq products, but not had any adverse effects overall, dont know about ONRWW though...


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Quite often, it's the simplest remedies that work. Forget advice about two
buckets and fleece mitts. Both are recipes for making things worse, as fully
explained in the FAQ! Yes the dirt does stick to the MF fibres, that's why
you _don't_ weaken the ONR dilution in a rinse bucket and risk taking away 
the very polymers that encapsulate the dirt and protect your paint from being
scratched. You only have to rinse the MF cloths in dish detergent afterwards 
to see just how well that works!

There is one problem that is often overlooked. I have lost count at the times
when I have demonstrated ONR to someone, making a big thing about dwell
time, then, when I ask them to demo it back to me, what do I get? A full and
complete lesson in spray and wipe... :wall: So, allowing the product time to 
do its work is probably the #1 reason for any dissatisfaction. 

As for bugs, well, I just lay some strong kitchen paper onto the paint (as 
advertised by the mexican guy who sounds like he suffers from a terminal 
incontinence problem) and give it an ONR soaking. Leave it in place for 
several minutes then gently lift it off - no wiping needed. The bugs stick to 
the paper and don't get embedded into an MF cloth, where they can scratch!
In grille areas, a soft brush, after a good dwell time and maybe a 2nd spraying
of ONR, will easily sort the problem.

Keep it simple guys...

There is one caveat. I have never used, and I'm unlikely to use, the W+W
ONR because it requires a final buffing wipe whereas the W+S is far more
versatile. It comes down to when to use _dry_ MF cloths. My mantra being:
only when I'm _absolutely certain_ that the surface is spotlessly clean!

Regards,
Steve


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

Bug splatter/water marks bird bombs tree sap pollen etc etc mostly need pressure washing and alot of elbow grease to remove. Buffing/rubbing hard to remove causes maring/swirls etc. cant beat a light polish with srp after you have removed as much as possible then top with collinite and that should take about an hour if you get yer skates on Of course you guys with expensive coatings which will be removed by the light polish will have to seek an alternative using a quick detailer or spray wax trying not to buff to hard and cause maring:thumb:

Let shampoo/snowfoam dwell and soak in as much as possible to remove and soften first.

I can remember washing my RS turbo once a week with washing up liquid and polishing it with MER. And it looked awesome:thumb: Funny come to think of it fairy liquid never damaged it in the 5 years i owned it


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## CLCC (Nov 18, 2010)

Lowiepete I was trying to follow your method, not diluting by using a 2nd wash bucket, using a damp MF rather than a dry one etc.

Perhaps it is the fact that it is ONRWW rather than plain old regular ONR? I might be wrong but it reads as though most of the people who have commented are going on their experience of ONR, rather than ONRWW. Perhaps the 2 product act quite differently? Im no chemist, but perhaps it is too much to ask for a cleaning product (to cut through grease/oil etc.) to at the same time add another kind of oily substance which is the wax?


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## isctony (Sep 24, 2008)

I agree with the above. Most who have contributed to this thread seem to have missed the point of ONRWW vs ONR. 

The post was never about technique but about the two products and whether the newer ONRWW is actually any good!

I didn't mention in my last post but I also didn't find any benefit of the added 'WW' - another reason for going back to the original!


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

isctony said:


> ...and whether the newer ONRWW is actually any good!


Well, I can be quoted as being an "Optimum whore", I'm so impressed with 
every OPT product I've used. With the blue ONR (W+S) OPT have secured a 
very enviable reputation. It is by no means a five-minute wonder!

So, before we go posting negative comments about the green ONR (W+W) I'm
going to pose the following question: Do you think that after the success and
recognition the blue one has achieved that OPT would risk its reputation by
introducing an inferior green one? My gut says a wholehearted no!

Having said that, the two products are very different. The wax content is a
chemical one similar to that used in Duragloss 931, which I have used. If all
that OPT have done is to add that chemical (never mind the colour change, 
that's just "cosmetic") then its cleaning ability should not be diminished. The
addition does make it far more of a niche product. The blue ONR will always
win in the versatility stakes!

In the cleaning stakes, when I reviewed #931 I found it every bit as good as
the blue ONR. What I didn't like was the extra work involving the very risky
final wipe. If that was omitted, the paint did shine, but only until it got wet
again, when it instantly turned dull!

The addition of the chemical wax probably also limits the temperature range
within which it can be used. I'm talking of the surface temps rather than 
ambient. The blue ONR is surprisingly tolerant of fairly high surface temps and 
its ability to resist evaporation in other than extremes is very marked. I doubt
that the green one would be as tolerant.

Having said all this, I think I'm going to stick with my original response, too
short a dwell time. It's my belief that OPT introduced the green ONR to satisfy
their marketing department. If they were to make any drastic changes to the
blue one, there would be uproar from their established customer base. I don't
think that this makes the green ONR a bad product; just a very different one.

Regards,
Steve


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## CLCC (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi Guys,

I have had another go today and have posted a video up on YouTube so you can have a look at what I'm doing and tell me if I am going wrong anywhere. I upped the concentration in the bucket and this seemed to help. Let me know what you think.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

I def don't get the water spotting problems that you're experiencing. Even on my other halves black BMW and it's often around mid-day when I do it. But again, I've been using regular ONR or Wolf's.

Was there any improvement after you went around with the QD? I usually finish off the cars with Optimum Car Wax so perhaps that is eliminating anything that would dry to a stain in my case.


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Chris,

There isn't too much wrong with your technique, although you could transfer a tad more
ONR in the mitt; the idea being that you gently squeeze out liquid as you reach the paint.
That should help you to guide the mitt downward. Any excess dirt will fall to the ground 
rather than get gathered into the mitt.

The water-spotting that you're experiencing doesn't seem to have been caused by the
ONR. As for the drying wipe, you have followed the advice for the blue ONR, however,
for the green ONR I believe that you should follow that with a final buff-off wipe. That
is probably the biggest reason preventing me from using this product; that idea really
scares me. With the water-spotting that you are presently experiencing I'd be heart in
mouth advocating that!

So, some questions...
1) Apart from the spotting, is the ONR giving a good clean? I was hoping you'd
show the camera what, if anything, had been picked up on the MF.
2) I'd be curious to know what happens when you use a normal car shampoo. 
3) If you use a QD, after washing, (what do you use?) do the spots then disappear?
4) The car is obviously well protected, but what is the LSP?

Regards,
Steve


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## CLCC (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi Guys,

I am still finding my feet with it, but I am glad that I have persevered with ONRWW. The video was the first panel that I did that day, but by the time that I had got to the end of doing the whole car I had changed the technique a little bit. As it wasn't too hot and the ONRWW wasn't drying instantly I started to have 2 panels wet at the same time, so spraying the next panel and leaving it to dwell whilst cleaning the first panel. This seemed to work well for me, and meant that I didn't have to keep on waiting and counting to 15 to ensure enough dwell time. And I think that the extra dwell time really gave the product a chance to work.

Lowiepete; After doing the whole car and looking at it, I would have to say that it was giving me a good clean. Sorry, I didn't think to show the MF after drying, there was a small amount of dirt, but not very much. It was more like a gradual darkening of the whole MF, rather than a thick black line of dirt at the edge of the MF where my hand had been like you can sometimes get.

Like I think I said in my earlier post. I have been using Dodo Juice's Born To Be Mild shampoo for a long time (those tiny bottles last ages!), but when you have been using a product for such a long time you don't tend to examine the results as closely as when you are moving over to a new product. I think that a side by side comparison is needed for an objective judgement on the 2 products.

In the end I took my time with the ONRWW on the whole car and then didn't get the time to follow up with the QD. The QD that I always reach for is Megs Ultimate Quik Detailer, it smells great, works great and the beading is amazing. I know that there can be a few people on here that might turn their noses up at some of the more readily available, consumer brands like AG and Megs but it really is a great product.

At the moment (and during the video) the car is wearing a single coat of AG Extra Gloss Protection, I find it a really good, long lasting, easy to apply LSP, especially when topped with Ultimate Quik Detailer, a really great combo in my opinion.

As usual, later on that day it rained, but I was keen to see the beading abilities of the Wax part of the ONRWW, and although there was some, it wasn't as tight and uniform as I would have liked, but I am glad that it was giving me at least some extra protection on top of my coat of AG EGP.


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Chris,

Did I mention the dwell time? :wave:

The Megs UQD is a brilliant OTS product, so, no need to excuse it :thumb:

It looks like the first wash was done on a fairly hot day, which I'm not sure is
a good idea with _any_ W+W shampoo. As for your beading, as stated, the 
wax in the green ONR is just a chemical formula similar to Aquawax, rather 
than any real natural wax, so no carnauba style beading can be expected. 

Once you _know_ that the surface is clean, you might need to give it a dry 
buffing wipe. What I found with the Duragloss was that unless this is done 
the paint, once rained upon, will go dull. There's another reason why I'm not
keen on these W+W products; using dry MF cloths, especially if the paint is
warm, tends to lead to a build-up of static and hence, dust attraction.

Regards,
Steve


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

CLCC, I really liked your video. I would have a read of the link to remove the waterspots by claying, paint cleaner etc or even by trying the new Carpro waterspot remover (not tried it) and then focus on the Optimum shampoo


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## CLCC (Nov 18, 2010)

Thanks for the advice and Im glad that you liked the video. I thought that it was important to show it close up before and after so people can really see for themselves and make up their own minds. A lot of youtube videos just seems to show a whole panel for the whole video and you can't really tell what the dirt was like before, or it is like after.


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