# Dodgy car purchase - want to pull out - help



## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Hi all,

So I'm wandering what you guys would do in this situation. My brother in law just passed his driving test and is after a cheap car. Very excited he saw a car from a trader/cheap car dealer for £750 went to see it, put £200 deposit down. Marked as non-refundable.

I was going with him at the weekend but he rushed off on wednesday with my sister as he was worried he'd loose out on it due to cheap cars going quick. 

I've been in the trade and if I'd have been there, seen the place and what he's told me...I'd have had him walk away there and then. (They also have bad reviews everywhere) Every alarm bell would have been ringing with me so I'm gutted for him as I guess traders should be trustworthy in an ideal world, I know otherwise, he unfortunately a bit naive.

So he started getting jitters and I went over a few things with him....

No service history at all.
Mileage is illegible on the cluster (So no Mileage on MOT)

The biggest clanger.....

He hadn't done a HPi, so got him to do one and been written off CAT D TWICE!!!!

No mention of this from the trader though.

Do you think we're going to have any luck of getting a deposit back? I know a trustworthy and honest trader would have said it was a CAT D car on the offset AND would give deposit back if it was a genuine mistake but these guys don't seem like that sort of crowd.

Deposit was paid by cash also so we'd have to go and get the money if they agree to a refund.

Should they have been told it had been CAT D'd twice? (I was at a new car dealership and never sold write offs of any kind so was never told/trained what to do).

Would like to get his cash back for him but I have already prepared him that this may just have to be a lesson learned.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

I think you have extremely good grounds to ask for it to be refunded. The car was not as advertised.

Whether you will get it back is a different story....If they say no I suspect it will result in a long court case and cost you more than £200? Could be wrong but that's probably what they are banking on.

Gutting though...hope there is someway to get a refund as I hate letting scum like this get away with it....


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## Alfieharley1 (Jun 8, 2014)

They have not described the car correctly - I would recommend checking the original ad and see if they have declared it HPI Clear. 
If they have, they are simply false selling and advise them they have not done the relevant checks on this basis he would like the deposit back.

If they are a trader they should also be aware of the law which came in 2015 if there are any faults for 6 months it would be covered other than wear and tear items. If they fight it they then have to prove everything was in order and checked (They would really struggle to do this)


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Car in question:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252800535110


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Seems genuine enough. Specialise in part ex dealer stuff. 

Does it run/work? It comes with 12mon MOT so might be a cheap car for him to bin in a wall given he's just passed his test. 

If it's safe and MOT'd I don't see an issue. How much would this be if it was not cat d etc?


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Many things I'd imagine a trader can get away with not mentioning, but the fact that it has been written off twice, is a serious omission. The fact that a car is registered cat d, can have an impact on the insurance cover available ( @shiny will hopefully give some detail on that one). It's a fairly critical piece of information, and would make a huge difference in whether a person buys (leaves a deposit) or walks away. 

I would ask for the deposit to be refunded. If they refuse, go to trading standards, and explain that you'll be going to the local press too. They'll likely figure out that the adverse publicity will cost them a lot more than £200, so hopefully will give your brother in law his money back. 

Fingers crossed. 

Cooks 


Sent from my D6603


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

£800 for a W reg 206 is well overpriced!! As a Cat D I'd be expecting the whole car for £200 tbh, I'd try for the cash back but be prepared never to see it again. Whatever happens don't let him buy the thing!!


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

does make me wonder why a trader would stipulate a "non refundable deposit", surely the SOGA comes into effect somewhere here especially being a trader, 14 day cooling off period?


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## Paul Nelson (Mar 9, 2017)

It also states in the ad that there are 0 miles on the clock which since the car is 17 years old I'm assuming is a complete lie


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

on AA website (not sure if it applies, but hey ho)

*Dealers must also comply with the requirements of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (2008), which prohibit them from engaging in unfair business practices across five main categories:

Giving false information either verbally, visually or in writing, for example misrepresenting the vehicle's specification or history at any time before, during or after the transaction.
Giving insufficient information - leaving out or hiding important information for example not disclosing the existence and results of all checks carried out on the vehicle's mechanical condition, history and mileage or failing to draw your attention to the key elements of any warranty, eg what's covered, claim limits and conditions to be followed.
Acting aggressively for example using high pressure selling techniques to sell a vehicle or associated finance or warranty.
Failing to act in accordance with reasonable expectations of what's acceptable.
Banning outright of 31 specific practices including: falsely claiming to be a signatory to a Code of Practice; falsely claiming to be approved, endorsed or authorised by a public or private body; falsely stating that a vehicle will only be available for a very limited time in order to elicit an immediate decision to buy.*


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## justinio (Jun 24, 2013)

If I remember correctly, dealers are legally obliged to declare a car as being Cat D / C etc if they are. I would take it back and demand a refund on that basis. 

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk


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## baxlin (Oct 8, 2007)

Mmmm. "New MOT on purchase". That doesn't suggest it has already passed its MOT, but that it will when sold. If it's done by an independent tester, how do they know it'll pass? 

Maybe I'm just too cynical.


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Feeling the unnecessary nuisance/grief for you.

Ask for the money back.

For this sort of amount small claims court is quick and cheap if you don't get any joy.

Let us know how it turns out.

Good Luck.

Andy.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

If they have already declared the deposit is non refundable, then you are not likely to get it back.


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## Arvi (Apr 11, 2007)

Print off the ebay ad if you haven't already so that you can demonstrate that it wasn't declared a CAT D. 

I'd politely ask that you were not informed it was a CAT D and request a refund. If they say know say you will be reporting them to Trading Standards and the Press. Otherwise small claims court. Good luck.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

muzzer said:


> If they have already declared the deposit is non refundable, then you are not likely to get it back.


Not 100% true as the dealers have not correctly described the car and omitted the big fact that it's a CAT D previous insurance write off.

That for one is a element that negates the whole "non refundable deposit" line.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Print off the advert quickly before he can change it or remove it. Then go there and calmly explain it's a CAT D which he'd not told you of or put in the ad. Stay calm as he tells you it was a non refundable deposit and explain that only applies if you pull out of the sale for no good reason. Tell him calmly that he has missed represented the car for not revealing crucial information about the car and under Sales of Goods Act you'd like the deposit back.
If he still says no then start getting funny with him and threaten trading standards, press etc etc.

Going in all guns blazing will most probably get his back up and he'll refuse to back down.


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## MagpieRH (May 27, 2014)

"£200 secures any car" and yet it's still advertised for sale on eBay...


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Update:

10:45am Spoke to Trading Standards Consumer Advice Line. 

They said best angle is that he was told it may have service history and to ring back the following day to find out all the details, to which they told him it had NO service history.

Told me ask for the deposit back explaining the situation then if they get a bit funny, quote the Consumer rights act of 2015 - goods to be as described. 

And then say therefore I am executing the 'Short Term Right to Reject' under that act which is a 30 day period from any agreement.


10.03.2017 11:05am - I called the trader and actually spoke to Ben who 'did the deal' with my brother in law. Explained the situation and was told, it's above his pay grade and I need to speak to Charlie who owns the place. I was told to ring back in 10 minutes.

I am currently waiting those 10 minutes.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Fingers are crossed for you, good luck! 

Alan W


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## GSD (Feb 6, 2011)

Interesting thread hope it gets sorted,there's a lesson to be learned here about rushing to buy a car.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Update 11:20am.

Called them on behalf of my bro in law, spoke to Charlie.

They have clearly been around the block a few times. Knew exactly what to say.

Says they have camera recordings with sound that he'd be happy to show IF we took them to court of Ben telling them there was no service history when they initially asked. His word against my bro in laws really.

He said he was not aware of it being a Cat D car, rescinding any responsibility that his dealership misrepresented the car in any way. 

So on the basis of the 2 concerns. They have no obligation to give back the refund.

Brother In Law has just learnt his first lesson in the world of used cars. 

He'll be taking me next time!


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Not the update we all wanted to hear and sad news for your brother-in-law. 

That may be a lesson he never forgets though and may well stand him in good stead in years to come. 

Alan W


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Look at the listing now...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-2...OT-/252800535110?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

He's added that it's a CAT D! Total ******.


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

First link you put in had it as a CAT D in the description 

I'd of walked as soon as there was no way of knowing the mileage and MOT when sold.
That screams dodgy to me and if it needed £200 worth of work no way is a trader paying for it and then selling it on.
Says I know a guy who can mot it type job :wink::wink:

Just seen the post about the camera, surely that's not right, I mean I've said I'd buy a car and pulled out before but that's almost trapping him to cover his **** for a free £200


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## LewisChadwick7 (Aug 22, 2014)

possul said:


> First link you put in had it as a CAT D in the description
> 
> I'd of walked as soon as there was no way of knowing the mileage and MOT when sold.
> That screams dodgy to me and if it needed £200 worth of work no way is a trader paying for it and then selling it on.
> ...


it's the same listing that has been edited  absolute ******! i'd be tempted to go fire his yard but that's not going to achieve anything


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

possul said:


> First link you put in had it as a CAT D in the description
> 
> I'd of walked as soon as there was no way of knowing the mileage and MOT when sold.
> That screams dodgy to me and if it needed £200 worth of work no way is a trader paying for it and then selling it on.
> ...


Yeah it's the same listing but he's edited it. I have the original saved as a PDF without that on it.



LewisChadwick7 said:


> it's the same listing that has been edited  absolute ******! i'd be tempted to go fire his yard but that's not going to achieve anything


LOL tell me about it.


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## warnoc (Apr 18, 2015)

Starbuck88 said:


> Update 11:20am.
> 
> Called them on behalf of my bro in law, spoke to Charlie.
> 
> ...


Just because he said he isn't aware of the Cat D that does not negate from the fact that he is a trader and should do the necessary checks before he advertises the car for sale. He has a legal obligation to do so.

Sent from my Elephone P8000 using Tapatalk


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

warnoc said:


> Just because he said he isn't aware of the Cat D that does not negate from the fact that he is a trader and should do the necessary checks before he advertises the car for sale. He has a legal obligation to do so.
> 
> Sent from my Elephone P8000 using Tapatalk


I agree but was hoping he be a gentleman about it, even a partial refund to allow for the cost of the MOT that was done to prepare it for handover.

Social media etc obviously doesn't scare these people as they have loads of bad reviews and are obv still selling cars.

For the money, my bro in law doesn't really have the means, time or anything to go to court.

Obviously consumer rights mean nothing at the end of the day, you have to work harder than ever to get justice.


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## Arvi (Apr 11, 2007)

Misrepresentation, Entrapment, Sale of Goods Act; if your prepared to action it, there could be some recovery in your brothers losses.

I had a fault on a car I bought years ago which became apparent within 1 month of purchase. It came with the standard 3 month warranty and I didn't take up the 12 month warranty they were offering. When I tried to make a claim they said as I didn't take the 12 month warrant with them they were not liable and I had signed a letter to say I had declined the 12 months which they would present in court. Its a way of scaring you into not taking legal action. I got all costs paid for when I mentioned a solicitor would be writing to them.

It depends how far you want to go in terms of initial costs of a claim not knowing the chances of success, going through the motions and anger..... just weigh it all up and decide on whats best.


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

DO they have signs up about using CCTV - if not I believe that's an offence ?

A little known aspect of DPA law is Right of Subject Access, you have a legal right to request a copy of your images captured on CCTV and subject to certain reasonable conditions the organisation responsible for the CCTV system (the Data Controller) must provide a copy.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Arvi said:


> Misrepresentation, Entrapment, Sale of Goods Act; if your prepared to action it, there could be some recovery in your brothers losses.
> 
> I had a fault on a car I bought years ago which became apparent within 1 month of purchase. It came with the standard 3 month warranty and I didn't take up the 12 month warranty they were offering. When I tried to make a claim they said as I didn't take the 12 month warrant with them they were not liable and I had signed a letter to say I had declined the 12 months which they would present in court. Its a way of scaring you into not taking legal action. I got all costs paid for when I mentioned a solicitor would be writing to them.
> 
> It depends how far you want to go in terms of initial costs of a claim not knowing the chances of success, going through the motions and anger..... just weigh it all up and decide on whats best.


This is the thing, it's weighing up all the time spent.



WHIZZER said:


> DO they have signs up about using CCTV - if not I believe that's an offence ?
> 
> A little known aspect of DPA law is Right of Subject Access, you have a legal right to request a copy of your images captured on CCTV and subject to certain reasonable conditions the organisation responsible for the CCTV system (the Data Controller) must provide a copy.


I challenged him about it and I said 'as it has him in the recording, we can request you release it', he just said, no we don't but I'll be happy to release it through the courts.


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## wayne451 (Aug 15, 2016)

I'd go small claims court.

I did that years back with some bumhole from Devon who I paid for a GT Turbo cylinder head. He never posted it.

He didn't turn up at court, as I knew he wouldn't as it's the other side of the country, found in my favour, claimed for my time etc.

It cost him hundreds more than he initially stole from me. I'd do it purely out of spite.


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

It will cost you £115 to apply for small claims court plus the haste factor which is what he is counting on, the add you linked oddly doesn't show an edit I thought they did show seller edited the add maybe an email to eBay and ask them if that's the case otherwise your argument becomes over was you told it was a cat d or was it missed in the original add.

Do feel for you but £750 for a w plate 206 ? That has to be the most expensive 206 on the planet you can almost buy a 207 for that price in the block


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

justina3 said:


> It will cost you £115 to apply for small claims court plus the haste factor which is what he is counting on, the add you linked oddly doesn't show an edit I thought they did show seller edited the add maybe an email to eBay and ask them if that's the case otherwise your argument becomes over was you told it was a cat d or was it missed in the original add.
> 
> Do feel for you but £750 for a w plate 206 ? That has to be the most expensive 206 on the planet you can almost buy a 207 for that price in the block


As I've written above, this isn't actually me it was a silly decision by my brother in law, I was just trying to see if I could clear up his mess a little and help him.

Yes I agree on the price too, too expensive.

Also I have a copy of the original ad. It was edited just after I had phoned them as detailed above.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Just catching up on this chum. I emailed you the PDf there, before I read that you already had it. D'oh. 

If it was me, I'd spend 500 quid getting the 200 back from him. It's a point of principle now. I'd go to the local press, do social media. I'd really make a nuisance of myself. 

Definitely do something chum. 

Cooks 

Sent from my D6603


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Cookies said:


> Just catching up on this chum. I emailed you the PDf there, before I read that you already had it. D'oh.
> 
> If it was me, I'd spend 500 quid getting the 200 back from him. It's a point of principle now. I'd go to the local press, do social media. I'd really make a nuisance of myself.
> 
> ...


If it was my money, I wouldn't give in but I think he wants to let this go.

I've told I'll take him to good known places and help sort him out for something decent at a decent price!


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

For a car in this price range I wouldn't even look at dealers, far better get something privately where you can talk to the owner face to face. You've got virtually no come back with a dealer at this price range so why pay the markup.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

lofty said:


> For a car in this price range I wouldn't even look at dealers, far better get something privately where you can talk to the owner face to face. You've got virtually no come back with a dealer at this price range so why pay the markup.


I agree


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

Starbuck88 said:


> I agree


Not always the truth of all dealers, we often get rid of part exchanges that fall outside our stock criteria just for the stand on price just to get our money back.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

At this stage I'd be going down and asking where these cameras and microphones are because somebody that dodgy has a lot more to lose from recording what's said so that's a load of bull. I'd then tell him you want the deposit back or you'll be using a small claims court to get back your £200. Do your research and explain to him the process, cost to you etc so he knows you have looked into it, highlight the fact you have copies of the ad before and after he edited it (take copies so he knows you're not bulling him). I'd then be telling him you'll do more than £200 worth of damage to his business if deposit is not returned. Then start talking to customers as they go in, he's played dirty your mate needs to now.


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## jbguitarking (Oct 5, 2011)

"Full M.O.T on purchase" - always screams dodgy car dealer, they just bung their local tester a few quid to pass any old skip.

Best of luck getting that £200 back.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Also if going to small claims court, you can claim the £200 plus any costs to yourself, the court costs and bailiffs if it comes down to that too


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## justinio (Jun 24, 2013)

I would personally use the small claims process. It's very easy and I seem to remember it only costing about £35. Did it all online. 

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

jbguitarking said:


> "Full M.O.T on purchase" - always screams dodgy car dealer, they just bung their local tester a few quid to pass any old skip.
> 
> Best of luck getting that £200 back.


thats a right sweeping statement, I dont know what your mot testers are like in your area the ones we use have a meltdown if you have so much of an air freshener hanging in the car.


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## Derek Mc (Jun 27, 2006)

A call to the local Trading Standards office will be of huge benefit here before the small claims as TS will intervene and call them on your behalf (has been my direct experience) enough usually to force a climb down.

However sadly you might have to wave goodbye to the deposit if this fails but the trader will be firmly on the radar of Trading Standards afterwards,,,,,,


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Just wanted to update this.

Took him at the weekend to a few good traders and used dealers I know personally.

Ended up coming away with a very well looked after 2004 Renault Megane 1.9DCi with 89k on the clock. £1,200. (He does a few miles to work every day, that he had to do on the Bus before now).

Owned from new by I think a good old boy that has paid for everything it has ever needed, wanted and then more so.

I test drove it, looked over everything that I possibly could, have to say it sounds so smooth and quiet for diesel (especially compared to our 2 dervs, Pug and Ford) and it doesn't half shift!

Has every single receipt, MOT, book pack. The original owner also bought an extra set of wheel bolts and locking wheel nuts for it (In Case) I presume.

Had the important timing and water pump done 10k miles ago and he had it serviced before he traded it in. So it really is all nice and ready to go for him. It had just been prepared and MOT'd as it was one of their cheapy specials so got to drive it back home on Sunday.










(Excuse the wall in the picture, currently being refurbished at mums place).

The difference in experience for my brother in law was obviously night and day compared with that ****** he put a deposit on the 206 from.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Great news (sounds a very nice car ) and thanks for the update! :thumb:

Alan W


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## LewisChadwick7 (Aug 22, 2014)

glad to see he's finally got a motor and a decent one at that from what you've put! it just shows there are decent second hand cars about if you look


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

LewisChadwick7 said:


> glad to see he's finally got a motor and a decent one at that from what you've put! it just shows there are decent second hand cars about if you look


This is it. It doesn't take 5 minutes to work out if a car has been looked after if you ask the right questions and know what to look for both in all the paperwork and the car.

It's not 100% (as we on here would like it), it needs a new window module for the passenger front but I've had him order one off eBay £10 and I'll fit it for him (the dealer did say buy one and bring it back and they'll fit it FOC as a favour for me for him - top guys). Used to be a big deal when they were failing when this shape was new but not now.

The end caps on the door handles, the silver has flaked off. If he's bothered I will paint them for him.

You can see in the picture there is a water mark/stain on the rear bumper, again something just age related, it'd bug me but he's not bothered.

The point is, mechanically it's been looked after as well as anybody could hope for. It's obviously completely HPi clear and with having all major serviceable items done recently. If something goes drastically wrong, it'll just be down to bad luck.

Fingers crossed he will be driving it for a long time. :driver:


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## LewisChadwick7 (Aug 22, 2014)

Starbuck88 said:


> This is it. It doesn't take 5 minutes to work out if a car has been looked after if you ask the right questions and know what to look for both in all the paperwork and the car.
> 
> It's not 100% (as we on here would like it), it needs a new window module for the passenger front but I've had him order one off eBay £10 and I'll fit it for him (the dealer did say buy one and bring it back and they'll fit it FOC as a favour for me for him - top guys). Used to be a big deal when they were failing when this shape was new but not now.
> 
> ...


exactly that's it really, it's his first car i'd expect him to add a few bumps and scratches as it's all part of learning but the main things are there at least, it starts, stops & drives all as it should in a safe manner :thumb:


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