# Do you still need to run new cars in ??



## renton (Nov 27, 2005)

Picking up my new car up on Monday and my father in law said I may have to run the engine in ??

Is this right or is it a throw back from the 70's / 80's ?

What have you all done in your new cars ?


Cheers. 

Steve


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

Hmm its a bit of a gimmick really to be honest. 

Lets not forget that most cars have some sort of "test" before they are sent off in transport to be delivered. 

Having said that, just see what the manufacturer recommends and just follow that


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

If you own it then look after it

If you lease or finance it then hammer it


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

The handbook advised to drive my 320d at less than 3500 rpm and not to use full throttle for the first 1300 miles, so that's what I did. 

I can't imagine that a manufacturer would recommend to do that for no reason, and it kinda felt like the right thing to do, probably to do with my need to keep things in good order. It really wouldn't matter to me whether I owned it or leased it tbh, either way it'd be looked after. 

Have a look in the handbook or have a quick conversation with your dealer, they should be able to advise. 

Cooks


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## REVERSiN (Sep 28, 2015)

Kimo said:


> If you own it then look after it
> 
> If you lease or finance it then hammer it


You mean "drive it like you stole it" ? LOL


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## Clancy (Jul 21, 2013)

Was under the impression most modern engines are run in in the factory, top end cars are that I know of


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## RealR0cknr0lla (Jan 17, 2016)

we 'run in' the other half's new mini for 1000 miles but my company lease cars just got hammered from day 1.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

Follow the manufacturers recommendations. I too have taken delivery of a couple of new BMWs and the advise is not to exceed a particular rpm for the first 1000 miles.

The real problem with this though is what is happening when the engine revs drop with the engine under load? With the BM it is not a problem as it shows you which gear you should be in.

I think engines of old were not made to high tolerances and tended to be quite tight so need some love and care to loosen up. A new engine will still be a little tight but made to much closer tolerances.

The real golden rule is not to allow the engine to labour and that goes for any engine of any age.


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## Kirkyworld (Jan 12, 2014)

My new Disco says to run it in for the first 3000km


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

Kirkyworld said:


> My new Disco says to run it in for the first 3000km


But what does that actually mean, which is what the OP wants to know? What are the parameters for the running in period?

It would make total sense to me if you were told like BM do to not exceed so many rpms but it works at the low end as well that you shouldn't let the engine revs drop below a certain amount as you will labour the engine.


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## Kirkyworld (Jan 12, 2014)

Andy from Sandy said:


> But what does that actually mean, which is what the OP wants to know? What are the parameters for the running in period?
> 
> It would make total sense to me if you were told like BM do to not exceed so many rpms but it works at the low end as well that you shouldn't let the engine revs drop below a certain amount as you will labour the engine.


The book says not to exceed a certain rpm, not to labour the engine and not to use full throttle for the running in period. And that is exactly what I will do.:thumb: The op does not ask what is involved but whether or not there was still a need to or what we did to our cars which is what I have answered.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Both my Merc A45 AMG and BMW M235i both had run in periods. The Merc was 1000 miles and BMW 1200. Mercedes put a big sticker on the window so you can't miss it. 

Both manufacturers tell you to avoid kick down if it's an automatic box. 

It makes for a long month, but what's a month if you have long term plans with the car? 

Some people are unlucky with cars that don't appear to be screwed well together. They use too much oil and don't seen to run at 100% power etc. I've never had a car that burned oil, but I've always run my cars in and I'm still always careful when warming the car up. 

Some mechanical sympathy will help the car last longer.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Rayaan said:


> Hmm its a bit of a gimmick really to be honest.
> 
> Lets not forget that most cars have some sort of "test" before they are sent off in transport to be delivered.
> 
> Having said that, just see what the manufacturer recommends and just follow that


Not to mention the ragging they get before they even hit the dealerships.

TBH in the past 3 brand new cars I have had over the past few years I haven't run any of them in and all the engines have used less oil and performed better and stronger from ragging them.

the 208 had 4 miles on it so I went steady for the first 50 or so then it was drive it as normal


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## tigerspill (Nov 28, 2015)

Yes you do. All those metal parts have microscopic humps and bumps that need worn down. As they are ground off, they collect in the oil when then needs changed.
Basically if you run it hard, then you may prematurely wear the parts.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

I have always taken it easy for the first 1500 miles, never gone over 2500rpm and stayed light footed on the gas.


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## Crafty (Aug 4, 2007)

nick_mcuk said:


> Not to mention the ragging they get before they even hit the dealerships.
> 
> TBH in the past 3 brand new cars I have had over the past few years I haven't run any of them in and all the engines have used less oil and performed better and stronger from ragging them.
> 
> the 208 had 4 miles on it so I went steady for the first 50 or so then it was drive it as normal


Some cars have a transport mode, which means they can't be "ragged". It gets switched off when spacers are taken out of the suspension and the like.

If the manufacturer advises running it in, then there is no reason _not_ to follow their advice, you don't have to but why not ?

Incidentally, how do you know your "ragged" cars perform better?

From what I've seen with motorbike engines running them hard from new may make more power, but also shortens their life. May not be a concern with a lease of course.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

My salesman said the Audi master tech told him that there is no need for a run in period. Didn't need to tell me twice that I could enjoy it straight away...!


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

They don't run the vw/Audi's in on Grimsby docks..


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

tigerspill said:


> Yes you do. All those metal parts have microscopic humps and bumps that need worn down. As they are ground off, they collect in the oil when then needs changed.
> 
> Basically if you run it hard, then you may prematurely wear the parts.


So if that was the case with the particles in the oil how come the first services on most cars is 20k miles?

If the oil was full of metal particulates then it would be changed at a lot lower mileages.



Crafty said:


> Some cars have a transport mode, which means they can't be "ragged". It gets switched off when spacers are taken out of the suspension and the like.
> 
> If the manufacturer advises running it in, then there is no reason _not_ to follow their advice, you don't have to but why not ?
> 
> ...


Well both my previous cars I had did over 85k mikes and both went like the clappers and also used far less oil than colleagues comparable engined cars.


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## Sh1ner (May 19, 2012)

Yes, it is worth running a new car in. It is not just about the engine.
Oils and greases, mineral and synthetic, all contain amongst other things friction modifiers, shear strength and tack additives. Chemicals such as magnesium, sulphur, phosphorous, carbon, magnesium, molybdenum, various fatty acids etc.
In places where there is extreme gear pressure (gearboxes, differentials, wheel bearings and engine camshafts etc) these substances are adsorbed into the metal faces providing lubrication, heat reduction and wear resistance over and above that provided by just an oil.
It obviously takes time for this to happen initially, hence the advice to run things gently at first.


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

if its a keeper then i would consider an oil change at around 1k


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

Sh1ner said:


> Yes, it is worth running a new car in. It is not just about the engine.
> 
> Oils and greases mineral and synthetic all contain amongst other things friction modifiers, shear strength and tack additives. Chemicals such as magnesium, sulphur, phosporous, carbon, magnesium, molybdenum, various fatty acids etc.
> 
> ...


This.

My gf's father is an engineer and I asked the same question. It's as someone said as well, it's a new car, it's not been a car for long and things need to bed in, wear down and warm up. You won't see any major issues for a while but it will wear prematurely.

The 435 manual says 1,000 miles minimum. As it's a keeper for me I have been very careful, still not run in yet, and it is really tempting to use it as it was intended. I have done this before and it's worth the wait.

I have noticed the gear changes smooth out, the exhaust sounds better too. Only 300 miles to go.

This is why I'd never buy a hire car, aka the fastest cars in the world.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Seen a lot of new cars ripping up the tarmac recently,probably don't give a toss about the car.


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## G.P (Dec 13, 2011)

DrEskimo said:


> My salesman said the Audi master tech told him that there is no need for a run in period. Didn't need to tell me twice that I could enjoy it straight away...!


Not quite what an Audi master tech told a friend of mine with his RS3..


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## HEADPHONES (Jan 1, 2008)

Picked up my Zed in 05.
The maual from Nissan also recommend a 1000 miles running in period.
That was a very patience testing month. 
Car runs as fine now as day 1.
I bought a 1993 Honda Prelude in '98.
50k on the clock.
3rd owner.
Serviced it myself every 6 months.
By 2005 and 70k later the piston rings were shot.
I reckon each of the previous owners were only ever in it for the short term.
1st owner had it under 2 years and probably ragged it from day 1.
Still miss that car


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

Like all things too many variables to take into account. Many confounding factors could cause premature wear not just missing the run in period. 

Sooo how many of you guys with turbocharged cars cool it down for 2 mins before shutting the engine off then??!


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Rayaan said:


> Sooo how many of you guys with turbocharged cars cool it down for 2 mins before shutting the engine off then??!


I don't bother with that but I do drive it gentle for the last couple of miles. Tbh having it sitting there idling is worse as there is no airflow and the heat build up under the bonnet will be high!


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## ninja250r (Jun 3, 2015)

When you get a new car it's worn in on the production line "idle in car". By the first "initial check service" 3000kms before the first scheduled service 10k or 12,000kms ask to change the oil and filter only. After the first service is due is when you can start giving it some beans. To allow the engine as a whole under driving stresses "bed" it's components in.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Rayaan said:


> Like all things too many variables to take into account. Many confounding factors could cause premature wear not just missing the run in period.
> 
> Sooo how many of you guys with turbocharged cars cool it down for 2 mins before shutting the engine off then??!


My R has a built in system to protect the turbo after the car has shut down, i assume most modern cars do this and the 2 mins thing was something you may or may not have had to do over 10 years ago.


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

I've owned few brand new cars and always run them in. Hand book said 600 miles before going beyond 4K rpm.

To be fair though how many people read the hand book or even have a concept of driving a car hard from cold?! Doubt the average brand new car gets run in.

For piece of mind I've always kept the revs down for 600 miles (sub 4K) then built them up towards 1,000 miles then driven normally.



182_Blue said:


> My R has a built in system to protect the turbo after the car has shut down, i assume most modern cars do this and the 2 mins thing was something you may or may not have had to do over 10 years ago.


I've always let my turbo cool down after a run but even my 2006 Megane 225 has an electric pump that pushes the oil round the turbo when the engine is switched off.


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Some thoughts on this topic here -
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

There is a train of thought among some people, that after having thoroughly warmed the car up, you should red line (under no load) within 20 miles


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## Crafty (Aug 4, 2007)

Do that with a Porsche and you'll void the warranty...

Seriously, vehicle manufacturers spend millions developing cars, they don't come up with running in advice for fun, it comes from their engineering departments who actually design and build the bloody things.

That said, there is no reason (once properly warmed up) that you shouldn't use the car to the extent of those limits, no point in doing stuff like keeping it under 2k. If the manufacturer advises 4k then take it to 4k smoothly.


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## Dannbodge (Sep 26, 2010)

I had an insignia as a hire car that had 200 miles on it.
That definitely didn't get run in properly.


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

It still important to run a engine in, everything is new, everything need to settle. 
Normaly when you rebuild an engine,we let them slowly warm up, cool them down completely, and warm them up gently again before putting any strain on them. 

Years ago we rebuilded a few engines of a big German manufacturer, the cars when new, due to driving bans could not in time be transported to be delivered.
They where collected and driven full blast from Germany ( possible from cold) 
The German Autobahn can be a pleasure..
These cars got delivered to their owners.
Between 30 & 50K (km) they started to use excessive oil, and we where asked to look into this.
When we took them apart for investigation, the bores still had the factory grindmark in the cylinders, but the bores where clearly glazed, after honing the cylinders we put the back with the original rings and the problem was solved.
Other vehicles from the same series didn't have any of these problems.

Most manufactures use engine oil with specially specified additives to promote proper run in, changing this oil too early will miss the point.
Years ago we used specially oil (most times thinner) and replaced it after 600-700 mile when we retorqued the headbolts.
With new gasket material and strechbolts this is not longer nessecary, but that doesn't mean the engine has been run in.

Regarding letting a turbo engine run idle for a couple of minutes, is only really important after a good trashing,or coming straight of the motorway, this gives the engine and turbo to cool down properly, with cool air running through the turbo and cooler oil.
When you swithch the engine of at this point, all the stored heat in the red hot turbohousing will be heating the bearings up, and carbonise the oil in there.

Beside that its important not to put your foot down (populair with a certain age of drivers to wake the neighbourhood up) just before you switch the engine off.
The turbo will continue spinning for a while without any lubrication.


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## John74 (Mar 12, 2007)

With my fiesta ST I took it gentle for the first 1000 miles and then at 2000 miles I was doing a track day.

20 months old and 9500 miles on the clock now it's never used a drop of oil.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

182_Blue said:


> My R has a built in system to protect the turbo after the car has shut down, i assume most modern cars do this and the 2 mins thing was something you may or may not have had to do over 10 years ago.


There are still some modern cars around which say "let the car idle for 2 mins before shutting down" in the handbook, yet nobody pays attention this that!

In hindsight, I dont think I ran my car in properly lol. I just drove it how I would normally drive a car to commute and its never missed a beat in 36k - but then I wouldn't expect it to....... . I could probably run it to 200k without an issue.


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

Rayaan said:


> There are still some modern cars around which say "let the car idle for 2 mins before shutting down" in the handbook, yet nobody pays attention this that!
> 
> In hindsight, I dont think I ran my car in properly lol. I just drove it how I would normally drive a car to commute and its never missed a beat in 36k - but then I wouldn't expect it to....... . I could probably run it to 200k without an issue.


The thing to remember is you probably won't be the person to find out about premature wear. If your commute is a normal drive you're probably OK. The point is really about using the car hard in that running in period.

Re turbo cars and sitting for two minutes, I also thought that was a 90's thing. I'd be interested to know given I have a twin turbo car myself and the hand book makes no mention of waiting.

Also you know you should run in new tyres too...?


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

:doublesho


should_do_more said:


> Also you know you should run in new tyres too...?


Ask any biker about running in tyres 
Most regular riders have experienced the new tyre syndrom, a feeling like you hit black ice.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

> Also you know you should run in new tyres too...?


I was going to ask the question about whether people run in their newly fitted tyres or not.

I always take it easy for the first 100 miles.


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## davidcraggs (Aug 1, 2007)

I would (and did for my leased Golf R). Gives you a chance to get used to the car and also let the tyres, brakes etc bed in at the same time. Also should minimise oil usage during ownership if done correctly - check out the honestjohn guides to running in a petrol and Diesel engine.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Rayaan said:


> There are still some modern cars around which say "let the car idle for 2 mins before shutting down" in the handbook, yet nobody pays attention this that!
> 
> In hindsight, I dont think I ran my car in properly lol. I just drove it how I would normally drive a car to commute and its never missed a beat in 36k - but then I wouldn't expect it to....... . I could probably run it to 200k without an issue.


It would be interesting to know which modern cars have this in the handbook.


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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

You probably don't have to any more, but personally I think it's wise that any moving component is allowed to run for a little while at sensible speeds and loads before its given death.

Mind you, if it was a lease car I'd be handing back after a couple of years I'd drop the clutch and leave a couple of black 11s off the forecourt


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

182_Blue said:


> It would be interesting to know which modern cars have this in the handbook.


All the Lexus turbos have it in their handbook albeit they use the same engine.

Modern Hondas have it in the handbook too

Also the Nissan Qashqai has it written in the book (bet most owners don't know this)

The water cooled turbos don't need cool down and some cars have a built in timer. Seems to be more of a petrol turbo thing than a diesel one too.

Garrett and HKS also recommend it :/


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Rayaan said:


> All the Lexus turbos have it in their handbook albeit they use the same engine.
> 
> Modern Hondas have it in the handbook too
> 
> ...


Surely they don't all suggest two minutes like you originally said though do they?, isn't it more like 
' idling the engine for 10 seconds before switching off after hot running'

Plus this from Garrett's own website



> Water-cooling of the turbocharger's center housing has essentially eliminated the need for turbo timers or extended idling periods.


Also also alot of modern cars are coming with stop start the technology, this can't work hand in hand with any kind of two minute cool down, i guess its all down to what's in your manual but I think there's very very few with anything in the region of two minutes to cool down.


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

From my Volvo's handbook

'Volvo recommends running in your new car for at least the first 1000 miles before having it serviced at your local Volvo centre. For these first 1000 miles Volvo recommends you don't rev the engine above 3000 rpm (diesel) or 3500 rpm (petrol) or allow the engine to labour at low revs. Volvo also does not recommend towing any trailers/caravans during the running in period.'

And in relation to the turbo

'2.0 D, 2.4D, D5 & T6. Volvo recommends that you always allow the engine to warm up before labouring it in order to maintain safe operation of the engine. To prolong the life of the turbocharger(s) Volvo recommends cooling the engine down after periods of heavy use by allowing the engine to idle for at least 30 seconds after completing a journey.'

So it's all written in there, you have to really look for it though. I've never had to worry about running a car in so can't comment but I do cool the car down for about 30 seconds, up to about 90 seconds if I've been towing with my car. 2009 XC70 D5 158,000 miles and still going strong


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

CoOkIeMoNsTeR said:


> From my Volvo's handbook
> 
> 'Volvo recommends running in your new car for at least the first 1000 miles before having it serviced at your local Volvo centre. For these first 1000 miles Volvo recommends you don't rev the engine above 3000 rpm (diesel) or 3500 rpm (petrol) or allow the engine to labour at low revs. Volvo also does not recommend towing any trailers/caravans during the running in period.'
> 
> ...


With reference to the turbo, for clarification how old is your car?, PS i am not disagreeing with anyone I just find it incredulous in this day and age that certain manufacturers still say this is needed, or fit turbos that require it.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

182_Blue said:


> Surely they don't all suggest two minutes like you originally said though do they?, isn't it more like
> ' idling the engine for 10 seconds before switching off after hot running'
> 
> Plus this from Garrett's own website
> ...


Lexus says 2 minutes, Honda seems to be variable, 10s on Accords and Civics etc. I believe the Qashqai is 30s. 911 Turbo has a cool down time of 1 minute. AFAIK BMW 335i is water cooled so doesn't need a cool down time but it does say something about driving gently before turning off lol. The 335i actually seems to keep the water pump on sometimes after shut down, you can hear it for a bit.

The stop start thing is a debate in itself - there's a lot of chat on it on other forums stating turbo reliability might be affected by stop-start systems


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

182_Blue said:


> With reference to the turbo, for clarification how old is your car?, PS i am not disagreeing with anyone I just find it incredulous in this day and age that certain manufacturers still say this is needed, or fit turbos that require it.


2009  Mines the single turbo 185bhp D5.

It's funny though; I don't remember seeing any of this warm up/cool down stuff in the DB9's handbook haha


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

CoOkIeMoNsTeR said:


> 2009  Mines the single turbo 185bhp D5.
> 
> It's funny though; I don't remember seeing any of this warm up/cool down stuff in the DB9's handbook haha


:lol: Maybe because it didnt have turbos and therefore is not "cool" in todays book...... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## lanciamug (May 18, 2008)

182_Blue said:


> It would be interesting to know which modern cars have this in the handbook.


I took delivery of a new turbocharged VW Polo in Jan. The handbook does say to idle for 2mins before switch off, but the car has stop/start, which kills the engine as soon as neutral is selected unless you remember to cancel the stop/start.


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