# Zymol Solaris Sold Out?!?



## adam87 (Dec 11, 2008)

Plus a £10,000 price increase :doublesho

You ******* what! 

Must be some serious pimps out there if they can afford that! 

25 x 40,000 = £1,000,000! Drinks are on Zymol!!!!!!!!!!


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## feslope (Aug 16, 2009)

adam87 said:


> Plus a £10,000 price increase :doublesho
> 
> You ******* what!
> 
> ...


I was just getting ready to order, missed my chance.


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## adam87 (Dec 11, 2008)

feslope said:


> I was just getting ready to order, missed my chance.


:lol:

I'm sure it wouldn't take them long to knock it up again for a quick 40k


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Wow another zymol price thread 

I actually think its quite cheap compared to this http://www.beautique.com/product/La_Prairie/____________La_Prairie_Cellular_Cream_Platinum_Rare.aspx


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## Andy M (Apr 7, 2006)

Theres some jokers out there isn't there


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## cheffi (Apr 12, 2008)

are there ANY pictures of this stuff on an actual car?


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## Judas (Jul 3, 2008)

Alex L said:


> Wow another zymol price thread
> 
> I actually think its quite cheap compared to this http://www.beautique.com/product/La_Prairie/____________La_Prairie_Cellular_Cream_Platinum_Rare.aspx


you shouldn't even know about websites like that............lol


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## cheffi (Apr 12, 2008)

maybe he knows about it because his wife knows his creditcard number and he spotted it on the bill


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## Judas (Jul 3, 2008)

cheffi said:


> maybe he knows about it because his wife knows his creditcard number and he spotted it on the bill


I would go and buy the zymol as pay back.........lol


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## mrseddymx3 (May 18, 2009)

Alex L said:


> Wow another zymol price thread
> 
> I actually think its quite cheap compared to this http://www.beautique.com/product/La_Prairie/____________La_Prairie_Cellular_Cream_Platinum_Rare.aspx


ROFL :lol: Im a woman and you wouldnt get me paying 600 quid for 50 ml of  face cream 

However car wax is quite another matter....................


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

my mrs just has botox which is only £150 for 6 months worth of face pulling action


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## mrseddymx3 (May 18, 2009)

the_knight said:


> my mrs just has botox which is only £150 for 6 months worth of face pulling action


But more painful than cream........and anyway way do women feel the need to go through these proceedures why cant they age gracefully

.....or disgracefully in my instance :lol:


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

I dont know - Shes only 41 and looks amazing 

But then again - I bet she's 60 and botox'd to the max and lies about her age


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## Andy M (Apr 7, 2006)

Ive tried Solaris and I cant see a tenable difference between that and #16 tbh.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

^^ Who in Boltons got a pot then?


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## Andy M (Apr 7, 2006)

It was a joke mate......haha


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

^^ Sounded more like BS to me but there you go  HA HA HA


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## adam87 (Dec 11, 2008)

Alex L said:


> Wow another zymol price thread
> 
> I actually think its quite cheap compared to this http://www.beautique.com/product/La_Prairie/____________La_Prairie_Cellular_Cream_Platinum_Rare.aspx


Just the fact that it used to be £30,000 mate.

And really they can't 'sell out' because what about the free refills? Still have to make it for anyone who has bought it before.


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

You can make one product and be out of stock or 'sold out' soon afterwards. Unless you know the amount produced, the actual sales cost of each item (including discounts, sampling etc) and some authenticated sales figures then it could just be meaningless spin.

The other sad aspect to Solaris is that at no point does there appear to be any kind of technological or scientific rationale for the high price. Indeed, IIRC, reports even had the lucky Solaris purchase making his own stocks of Solaris by decanting some amazing grade of carnauba with a golden spoon. As someone that knows a little about wax manufacture, I would suggest home manufacture isn't the best way to make a wax.

Whilst Vintage and Royale are fine (if expensive) waxes, the justification could always be free refills for life. Assuming you can cope with the postage charges to take advantage of this offer and that you actually get through the wax at a realistic rate (it takes 3-4 years for our customers to get through 250ml of product on average) then this may offer some consolation.

I just can't see where Solaris fits in to the range or what it is trying to do, beyond a marketing/publicity exercise. If Becky should ever find out from Chuck, I do hope she tells us here.

In some ways I find it quite sad that these products get the attention they crave, as it takes a little away from the genuinely interesting LSP technology that exists, such as covalent 'nano' products like G-Techniq and Nanolex. Whilst I must take some responsibility for the publicity given to Royale as it featured heavily in the '5000 GBP car wash' news release I wrote a couple of years back, as a more educated and informed wax enthusiast and detailer today, I am not sure I would have been so brazen in my publicising of it. And Solaris, even back then, may have seemed a step to far. You have to be convinced yourself of what you are selling, and I am not sure Solaris could have convinced me at all at that price and with the information made available about the product to date.

In the meantime, we have developed a 100,000 GBP wax, which has sold out already, made from pink carnauba resin, with free refills for you, your neighbours and the cast of East Enders. We are sure it will be the talk of internet detailing forums and the East Enders dressing room. Ashley Cole's agent has already made an enquiry (about a Caddy Escalade I am selling, but an enquiry is an enquiry) and Clarkson is lined up to eat some. :thumb:


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Dodo Factory said:


> You can make one product and be out of stock or 'sold out' soon afterwards. Unless you know the amount produced, the actual sales cost of each item (including discounts, sampling etc) and some authenticated sales figures then it could just be meaningless spin.
> 
> The other sad aspect to Solaris is that at no point does there appear to be any kind of technological or scientific rationale for the high price. Indeed, IIRC, reports even had the lucky Solaris purchase making his own stocks of Solaris by decanting some amazing grade of carnauba with a golden spoon. As someone that knows a little about wax manufacture, I would suggest home manufacture isn't the best way to make a wax.
> 
> ...


I think the rationale for such a product exists entirely within its exclusivity, it's a well known marketing technique and works well for many companies - including various supercar manufacturers and the likes. Its the same consumer behaviour towards this that exists toward any limited run items. There are many products which are priced well above their worth but demand a kings ransom. Also, it could be seen as a safe bet, you never know boutique waxes could be second to wind collecting, for example. Zymol are a comapny which are renound for quality, I don't think they need to justify anything about it. I don't have the money so won't buy it, but I gurantee you there are some millionaire petrolheads who will love the idea.

As for LSP technology, there only is so far it can go. Burried deep within marketing hype of many LSPs lies a load of tripe. Now, covalent "nano" products are of interest here, because as far as I was aware it is nigh on impossible to get something to covalently bond to your car, if you manage it then kudos, I'm nominating you for a Nobel prize. Covalent bonding relies on the concept of attraction through repulsion at an electron level, now to get the concept to actually work surely you'd need to either knock off or add an atom to your cars paint finish? As essentially your paint and the LSP would be sharing electrons and become 1. Then what do I know I'm just an enthusiastic amateur who's had one to many conversations about car cleaning products.

In short, I'd buy Zymol if/when I can afford it, Vintage is amazing, maybe its not 1500 better than megs 16, but its a personal choice. HAving had it on my car I would love to own it. Sheets water like no-bodys business and was hellishly durable in the Scottish climate where I was doing 4-600 miles a week.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Judas said:


> you shouldn't even know about websites like that............lol


I saw it in duty free at Auckland airport where it was NZ$1400 for a little tub.



adam87 said:


> Just the fact that it used to be £30,000 mate.
> 
> And really they can't 'sell out' because what about the free refills? Still have to make it for anyone who has bought it before.


All Zymol waxes go up and down in price.

They can sell out, iirc they were only making a set number of pots but that wouldn't effect the refils.

And while I think of it I remember someone selling a wax for £500 and if you wanted it in a special £360 crystal pot you had to pay £10,000.

How does that work???


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Spoony said:


> As for LSP technology, there only is so far it can go. Burried deep within marketing hype of many LSPs lies a load of tripe. Now, covalent "nano" products are of interest here, because as far as I was aware it is nigh on impossible to get something to covalently bond to your car, if you manage it then kudos, I'm nominating you for a Nobel prize. Covalent bonding relies on the concept of attraction through repulsion at an electron level, now to get the concept to actually work surely you'd need to either knock off or add an atom to your cars paint finish? As essentially your paint and the LSP would be sharing electrons and become 1. Then what do I know I'm just an enthusiastic amateur who's had one to many conversations about car cleaning products.


Great post, Spoony, you do know your stuff. The true covalent stuff tends to work a lot more effectively on glass, where there's a spare oxygen atom or something, but you're right that covalency is far more difficult or less likely on paint, effectively a polyurethane coating. We obviously look into all the technological angles etc. and anything scientifically worthwhile tends to catch our eye. Whether it actually happens like that or works like that is perhaps only something Rob from G-Techniq can clear up? But covalent silanes are far more plausible and interesting than golden spoons and weird carnauba strains. There is at least some scientific reasoning behind it, and I'm pretty sure some of the 'nano' claims that are made are able to be backed up and consumers can see some advantage on their car. As ever, open minds required. G-Techniq lasted much less than expected in the sealant test that Iain did, for example (one of our traditional waxes beat it, from a circumstantial point of view) so maybe there does need to be more enlightenment from the manufacturers about what the products are and how they work.



Spoony said:


> In short, I'd buy Zymol if/when I can afford it, Vintage is amazing, maybe its not 1500 better than megs 16, but its a personal choice. HAving had it on my car I would love to own it. Sheets water like no-bodys business and was hellishly durable in the Scottish climate where I was doing 4-600 miles a week.


Sounds like a sealant from those reports?!! Is it meant to be completely natural? Do you know? Can Becky confirm?

I like Vintage as well, having used it, and personally it makes more sense than Royale. Glasur is arguably the pick of the bunch, but back to Solaris... Solaris does seem a step too far, even for Zymol. I think it's just a bit out of touch with where detailing is today.


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

ill stick to my dodo rfr about 30 grand cheaper probbaly does same.going to get a tub of onyk though when i go on swissvax day again in a couple weeks


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## gtechrob (Sep 11, 2006)

Dodo Factory said:


> Great post, Spoony, you do know your stuff. The true covalent stuff tends to work a lot more effectively on glass, where there's a spare oxygen atom or something, but you're right that covalency is far more difficult or less likely on paint, effectively a polyurethane coating. We obviously look into all the technological angles etc. and anything scientifically worthwhile tends to catch our eye. Whether it actually happens like that or works like that is perhaps only something Rob from G-Techniq can clear up? But covalent silanes are far more plausible and interesting than golden spoons and weird carnauba strains. There is at least some scientific reasoning behind it, and I'm pretty sure some of the 'nano' claims that are made are able to be backed up and consumers can see some advantage on their car. As ever, open minds required. G-Techniq lasted much less than expected in the sealant test that Iain did, for example (one of our traditional waxes beat it, from a circumstantial point of view) so maybe there does need to be more enlightenment from the manufacturers about what the products are and how they work.
> 
> Sounds like a sealant from those reports?!! Is it meant to be completely natural? Do you know? Can Becky confirm?
> 
> I like Vintage as well, having used it, and personally it makes more sense than Royale. Glasur is arguably the pick of the bunch, but back to Solaris... Solaris does seem a step too far, even for Zymol. I think it's just a bit out of touch with where detailing is today.


take a look at the resources tab -> c1 product information for info on how c1 works. it works on any surface that has a hydroxyl group in its molecular structure - all plastics have this so this includes your car's paint.

and that test iain was running was judging durability by how long a product beads. c1 will normally bead for around 8-10 months so long as soap residues are properly rinsed from the surface (the ionic function of any soap residue will make any surface stop beading).

if you judge c1 durability by other factors such as stain resistance or gloss retention then we have both lab tests and real world applications (mainly on yachts) showing that c1 lasts very well for about 2 years and on less weather prone surfaces (eg verticle or near verticle surfaces on yachts) for as much as 5 years.

iirc Iain's test also threw up anomolies for Dodo as well? iirc you have a product that is very like another that was on test and they showed wildly differing beading durability.

what is apparent from this test and from others we have done is that durability is an incredibly difficult factor to predict. take for example some work we are doing for a major yacht manufacturer on dark coloured grp. Their gel manufacturer ran loads of quv a/ quv b/xenon chamber tests to measure degradation from UV. The gel passed but now they are facing a situation which if they can't solve will hit the manufacturer very very hard for warranty claims. We are working with them on this problem and it seems that it's a combination of sun and water on the surface and probably more a function of the porosity of the gel than stability of pigments.

in real terms we know that when an unprotected yacht is sold into the Hong Kong market its gel is looking completely matt after 6 months - same yacht with c1 has retained its gloss after 3 years apart from a couple of spots on horizontal surfaces. this makes for much happier yacht owners :thumb:


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Thanks for the post, Rob. As far as possible, I think it benefits everyone to cut through the test anomalies, forum myth and manufacturer BS as far as possible, and actually get towards something substantial and provable.

I'm sure few people would get excited about hydroxyl group bonding (maybe apart from you, me and DaveKG!), because there is no instant revelation - a daft price, a dramatic conclusion - to set the forum alight, and it starts to get tricky to grasp. We see people struggle with basic processes, so advanced product development really can be confusing, especially when 'nano' is a buzz word that could be overused or improperly applied.

Maybe you just need that G-Techniq golden spoon and then do the education later?


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

PS I have the rights to 'You, me and DaveKG' as the title of a feature film about detailing. :thumb:


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## gtechrob (Sep 11, 2006)

Dodo Factory said:


> Thanks for the post, Rob. As far as possible, I think it benefits everyone to cut through the test anomalies, forum myth and manufacturer BS as far as possible, and actually get towards something substantial and provable.
> 
> I'm sure few people would get excited about hydroxyl group bonding (maybe apart from you, me and DaveKG!), because there is no instant revelation - a daft price, a dramatic conclusion - to set the forum alight, and it starts to get tricky to grasp. We see people struggle with basic processes, so advanced product development really can be confusing, especially when 'nano' is a buzz word that could be overused or improperly applied.
> 
> Maybe you just need that G-Techniq golden spoon and then do the education later?


what's a golden spoon?


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## gtechrob (Sep 11, 2006)

Dodo Factory said:


> PS I have the rights to 'You, me and DaveKG' as the title of a feature film about detailing. :thumb:


think that might go straight to DVD :lol:


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## Select Detailing (Feb 19, 2009)

Guys not knowing the full in's and out about the Science behind a wax.

I am a HUGE fan of the Zymol brand and like some of the Dodo range.

Reading your comments seems to me that there is a degree of being a little envious of Zymol.
I think that the cost of the Solaris is a massive input, but there must be a difference in this, as if not they would be open to having a member of the public buying this wax able to sue them for selling a product that is not what it says.

Im no expert, but looking at this, it feels that your dishing zymol which to me and no doubt others spell a rotten egg.
No doubt people will jump down my throat, but its how i feel on this matter.

Regards

Gareth


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Believe me, we are not envious of Zymol but we certainly respect some of their products. I think I have been quite even handed, and I should point out that I have tried most of the products, know more about them than other people do for various reasons, and I still have my pot of Carbon - the first pot of high end wax I bought. So I am a Zymol customer myself, back in the days when it was ZDOuk.

There is no dishing going on, but it saddens me to see some products being marketed the way they are. If you buy into it, good for you, but my personal opinion is that it has little benefit to consumers or detailing as a whole.

Maybe Zymol would like to comment on what Solaris customers actually get from that wax for their money, seeing as they have a representative on here? I have an open mind on the matter.


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## gtechrob (Sep 11, 2006)

Dodo Factory said:


> Thanks for the post, Rob. As far as possible, I think it benefits everyone to cut through the test anomalies, forum myth and manufacturer BS as far as possible, and actually get towards something substantial and provable.
> 
> I'm sure few people would get excited about hydroxyl group bonding (maybe apart from you, me and DaveKG!), because there is no instant revelation - a daft price, a dramatic conclusion - to set the forum alight, and it starts to get tricky to grasp. We see people struggle with basic processes, so advanced product development really can be confusing, especially when 'nano' is a buzz word that could be overused or improperly applied.
> 
> Maybe you just need that G-Techniq golden spoon and then do the education later?


to me the only thing that's provable is customer satisfaction. there isn't any ********** way to test for all variables. we've had a good crack testing all kinds of things such as swirl resistance, bird lime resistance, accelerated uv tests, stain resistance, dirt repellency, hardness test, gloss tests to name a few. put in a matrix and not wanting to blow too much smoke up c1's behind - c1 and c1 type coatings do offer significant advantages.

but as with anything and in particular in this industry where performance is difficult to quantify external references which includes price points, manufacturer's endorsements, notable cars the product was used on can often be more important to perception of quality than boring old lab data.


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## Select Detailing (Feb 19, 2009)

I am a detailer, and like most there are many brands out there that do a better job than others, which is what makes it unique and allows the consumer to have such a varried choice.

I can remember my bike day, go for a run, come back to the white wheels being cover in chain lube, tried all the best cleaning degreasers and found that a 99p can of Pledge out performed them all.

From as i said before, I like stuff from the DODO Juice Range, and also that from the Zymol Range, however it does feel that your attacking them and this very Special Wax.

If you have the expertese, have you had a sample of this wax taken to a lab and broken down to see what the difference is?

Zymol would not produce this wax if it was not by far the best wax they claim it to be, all it would take would be for a customer to sue them under false claims, and there rep would be damaged.

I dont think having Zymol come on here and place there point would be a good move or a productive one imo, but thats there call.

This could become heated and I dont think its in the best intrests of DW.

Regards

Gareth


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Sorry, Gareth, I am not sure why you don't think that Zymol should comment here?

But you do seem very trusting of manufacturer's claims. Remember, you can't sue for stuff being expensive, just for stuff not doing what it claims to do?

No one is talking about dissatisfied customers. I'm sure that Solaris customers, whoever they are, are over the moon about their purchase and that their golden spoon takes pride of place on a shelf somewhere next to the Bugatti.

What I am talking about is any scientific, technical or performance advantage offered by this 30k (actually now 40k wax, according to the uk zymol website) over, say, Glasur. And I'm not just talking about 'more carnauba' or a more special carnauba. If there is an advantage to these wonder ingredients or wonder recipe, then why? Surely you'd want to know what you get for your 30/40k?

It's a bit like buying a Bugatti Veyron that has never been subjected to a road test. Would you do it?

But I'm all for choice. Zymol make some great products and the more choice the better. For various reasons, if it wasn't for Zymol there would be no Dodo Juice. Yet Solaris is a mysterious product with a ludicrously high price tag and if people on internet forums do not ask questions, who will?


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## Zymol Europe (Sep 29, 2009)

Hi All,

In answer to the first question in this thread, yes the Solaris has now been sold out. There is one pot left which is the personal pot of Chuck Bennett.

The number sold was based on the number of containers that were originally made, once these were gone it would not be available for purchase anymore but the refill policy does apply.

I can't say for data protection purposes where the containers of Solaris went but i can say there are 24 happy customers out there! :wave:

Becky


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## Select Detailing (Feb 19, 2009)

Dodo Factory said:


> Sorry, Gareth, I am not sure why you don't think that Zymol should comment here?
> 
> But you do seem very trusting of manufacturer's claims. Remember, you can't sue for stuff being expensive, just for stuff not doing what it claims to do?
> 
> ...


Reference your Post.

Zymol Europe have had no input on this wax, It has all been done through Zymol USA.

I am aware that no UK detailer has this wax, and that all 25 items have been brought by Private Collectors for there Private Collections.

The fact remains,

Dodo Juice being you manufactures their own waxes, while Zymol Europe is a reseller.
Zymol has been going for many years with a huge following in the states like Meguiars does there.

Dodo Juice in the states is still quite unknown there.
My points raised on this matter are as a person reading this thread and not that of a detailer. 
Dodo seem to be picking at a wax thats unique, i dont think myself or you guys would ever get the chance to use this product to see just how good it is.

Looking at a post link below, look at the reflection shot that were obtained from Royale on the Arden Blue VXR, YOU CANT FAULT THE PRODUCT AT ALL!

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=25400&highlight=astra

Just seems a pointless issue of Zymol against Dodo and really if you have issues it does not need to be vented on the site, as its like airing your dirty laundry in Public.

I am not meaning to be rude against Dodo but i see this as it is.

Regards

Gareth


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Zymol Europe said:


> Hi All,
> 
> In answer to the first question in this thread, yes the Solaris has now been sold out. There is one pot left which is the personal pot of Chuck Bennett.
> 
> ...


Could you just tell us if there are any sold in to the UK ?

Sorry just curious


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

I have not been attacking Zymol Gareth, Becky has come on and answered some questions. I feel I have been fair and reasonable throughout. Virtually every wax is 'unique'. I am not sure why you feel the need to 1) create the perception of a big argument when there is only sensible discussion, 2) defend Zymol to the hilt, 3) mention the performance of Royale when we are talking about Solaris, and 4) essentially 'be rude against Dodo' by trying to belittle our standing in the US and going on about dirty laundry where there is no laundry to air.

I'm not sure what your angle is? Send me a PM if you want.


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## Zymol Europe (Sep 29, 2009)

james b said:


> Could you just tell us if there are any sold in to the UK ?
> 
> Sorry just curious


Sorry, my lips are sealed!

I don't have anything else to say on the matter aside from the obvious... people choose to spend what they want on whatever wax they want, and some people are fortunate enough to have £30k to spend on something a bit exclusive. A position that unfortunately most of us will not ever be in. Judgment is surely down to those lucky enough to own and use it.


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

A diplomatic and fair comment, Becky.


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## Select Detailing (Feb 19, 2009)

Dodo Factory said:


> I have not been attacking Zymol Gareth, Becky has come on and answered some questions. I feel I have been fair and reasonable throughout. Virtually every wax is 'unique'. I am not sure why you feel the need to 1) create the perception of a big argument when there is only sensible discussion, 2) defend Zymol to the hilt, 3) mention the performance of Royale when we are talking about Solaris, and 4) essentially 'be rude against Dodo' by trying to belittle our standing in the US and going on about dirty laundry where there is no laundry to air.
> 
> I'm not sure what your angle is? Send me a PM if you want.


Not once have i tried to be little DODO JUICE.

I for starters use a few of your products and am not knocking them. You are welcome to perceive how you wish my comment about DODO Juice in the states, I made reference that that Zymol comes from the US and over there its huge business, like that of Meguiars over there, both these companies have come to the UK, seeing as Detailing comes from the US no comment was meant, I was clearly showing that that Zymol Uk is a reseller, your issues regarding would much be better placed against Zymol USA.

Yes if you look at my previous post I am a huge van of Zymol, and for me, long before DODO Juice was born, I was using Zymol on my Dads Escort Cosworth for the Concourse Scene that we were in to, so i think I have been a user for some 17years.

DW asa whole knows about Dodo and that it has a very very funky markerting approach that appeals to the younger generation with the use of the funky colours and images, while also producing some awsome products that many jo public will vouch for and some Top Pro Detailers.

I just feel that you laid down claims about this wax and being freedom of speech feel your comments were quite unfair and you were knocking the brand which I dont feel is fair being a user of most of there gear.

It is down to you to read in to my comments and make your own comments, but for me as a person, no offence or disrespect was aimed at you or your brand.

Regards

Gareth


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Zymol Europe said:


> Sorry, my lips are sealed!
> 
> I don't have anything else to say on the matter aside from the obvious... people choose to spend what they want on whatever wax they want, and some people are fortunate enough to have £30k to spend on something a bit exclusive. A position that unfortunately most of us will not ever be in. Judgment is surely down to those lucky enough to own and use it.


I never passed judgement on any one  Just wanted to know if any have been sold in the UK is all, if i had a spare 30K in my pocket as lose change and i would not miss it id buy one, unfortunatly i only have 30pence in there right now :lol:


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## Select Detailing (Feb 19, 2009)

James Thats 30 p more than me.:thumb:


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## Zymol Europe (Sep 29, 2009)

Sorry James that comment wasn't aimed at you, some bad use of the quote button by me there!!

It was a general response to the way the thread was going, after quoting to answer your question.

Becky


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

He's not knocking anything, he's pointing out, quite rightly, that as far as the released information shows, Solaris is technically no better than Royale, in fact, with the option of making your own wax with it, it could well be far, far worse.
So what are you paying for extra over Royale?


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## *MAGIC* (Feb 22, 2007)

Ok I admit it I brought 1 and no you cant borrow any.

Robbie


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

I hate the way these threads tend to go and have watched many go like this in the last wee (Scottish word)while :lol:

At the end of the day it all boils down to the consumer and whether the consumer is happy with the product he or she has purchased.
If Zymol or any other manufacturers decide that they have product X costing whatever amount then surely there is a market for that such product to be released to the consumer .Its not for other companies to then question the product or indeed the marketing of the product or anything else ,the consumer if he/she is happy then in my opinion thats all that counts
Todays customer has a wide variety of choice to choose from in an ever expanding detailing market not only here in the UK but the rest of the globe


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

I still think forums should be a place for sensible and considered debate.

If I was to introduce a new polish made from pulped hamsters sold for 200,000 GBP a litre, is it right that only my customers have a right to comment on it, or ask what they're getting?

Nonsense.

In the detailing community, every product should be open to debate and every manufacturer should be open enough to comment on this forum, should they be able.

Otherwise, you'll end up with dubious goods of unquantified performance being fed to a gullible public at whatever price a reseller or manufacturer thinks they can get away with.

But as you say, if people want to pay money for something and it makes them happy, they only need to justify it to themselves. No need for a media blackout though, David :lol:


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

I think you may be missing the point i was trying to make Dom ,i just think manufacturers shouldnt be the ones asking the questions about product x but more or less the consumer :thumb:


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## johninspain (Sep 30, 2009)

http://www.detailuniversity.com/forums/school-exterior-detailing/1525-zymol-solaris-30k-wax.html

Seams they are thinking along the same lines in the usa....... the homw of zymol


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

david g said:


> I think you may be missing the point i was trying to make Dom ,i just think manufacturers shouldnt be the ones asking the questions about product x but more or less the consumer :thumb:


But surly we are all potential consumers? no?

Besides, it was a detailing enthusiast who posted about it, on a detailing forum :thumb:


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

In an ideal world you would be right, David. 

But who knows about these products? Where is the consumer champion with an Infra Red spectrometer? Shall we ask trading standards to start swotting up on carnauba... they wouldn't have a clue  Do you even know what is in the products that you sell? How can you even comment on those sometimes if you don't make them yourself, and just rely on what Paul tells you etc? You can see the issue with finding the truth about products in the market place. It's tricky for the general public 

Who knows the ins and outs of marketing and making these waxes? If I have a small insight, or a point of view, I feel it could be to everyone's benefit to share it. Surely consumers would like to learn about products? I find Autoglym's approach fantastic. Those guys never hide what's in their products or overclaim. There are one or two companies in the market that do sail close to the wind though.

In short, I feel that there has been too much myth and misinformation in this industry over the years.

BS about silicone, about carnauba, about silicones. People are happily buying bulked out shampoos that are basically bottles of water with foaming and bulking agents and a miniscule amount of soap, but it foams a lot and it's thick, so it's a good shampoo, right? People are buying shampoos with a little silicone in, so that when it gets buffed - when the consumer dries it - it makes the paint all nice and shiny so the consumer feels that it's a good product. But the silicones last a week or so. People see labour saving 'one step' car care products advertised on TV and sold in Homebase, but a detailer will get a better result by dividing the processes up. Whatever happened to that Flash car wash system, for example? How many thousands of units did that sell and how happy were the customers? Would they have been happier buying one of your basic starter kits and spending a few hours on here? Maybe so. They may have got better results...

This forum has always been a resource... you can get educated on here when it comes to detailing... if you have the knowledge, put it foward and let's have a debate.

I appreciate my comments should always be taken in context, as I do have a vested interest. I don't hide my position or pretend to be independent. But one way in which we aim to compete is educate the market (as per our FAQ ad that teaches basic detailing principles) and also perhaps to be the masked magician of the industry and expose the shallow and/or unethical practices that may exist in certain quarters. The more enlightened the market, the better we will do as a company, as I found a few disturbing facts come to light when I started making these products myself and vowed to do things a bit differently instead of joining the other manufacturers and playing their game.

Let's have independent testing, open debate and some proper analysis. Surely it is in the customers' best interests rather than letting them live on a diet of spin they feel they don't have the knowledge to challenge?


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## Select Detailing (Feb 19, 2009)

I think fair points have been raised about the content and what is put in to some of these items.

I do not know the tech and lab side of products, all i can tell is this, when I come across a product that gives me the following.

1. Ease of Use.
2. Does the Job it states
3. Value for Money

If i find this in a product being 1p or 20k, to me as a user I will feel its a good product and say it is, although to another user, they may not think this is the case.

I have spoken to Dom on the phone today and listened to him and I will say he has been honest to me and given me pause for thought to some issues.

It is true to the case, Branding, Image, Advertising, Marketing plays a massive part of any manufactures process and without these crucial ingrediants companies would not exsisit or have the ability to see to the public. Hence why the budget for this is so vast.

I remember one of the detailer did a post on a test with a horse box, trialing every wax, I was very supprised with the results.
I think what it boils down to is what the user is happy with.
Dom knows I am a huge fan, but from listening to him, I see where he is coming from fully and respect the hard work he has put in to building his company.


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## Maggi200 (Aug 21, 2009)

£40,000 would get an almost new M3, or new if you're that rich it won't matter. I would get one of them, leave the veyron in the garage which would provide more uv protection etc than any wax . That and a tub of vintage and save lots of pennies


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

james b said:


> But surly we are all potential consumers? no?
> 
> Besides, it was a detailing enthusiast who posted about it, on a detailing forum :thumb:


Sorry mate didnt realise you were a manufacturer lol ,you as you should read it are indeed a customer :thumb:


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

Hey Dom i have never had an issue with finding out about products and their secret ingredients ,what the issue i have is unproessionalism of other manufacturers questioning competitors products and claims re marketing BS 
Do Pepsi challenge Coke ? No ,and why ,they dont care and concentrate on their own products :thumb:


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

comon, you know as well as all the rest of us you dont make the products your self, so as a reseller, i thought this would interest you, no?

Personally i agree with Dom, alls fair and all, but you have to justify in some way the 29900 difference between that and a 100 pound wax?


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

james b said:


> comon, you know as well as all the rest of us you dont make the products your self, so as a reseller, i thought this would interest you, no?
> 
> Personally i agree with Dom, alls fair and all, but you have to justify in some way the 29900 difference between that and a 100 pound wax?


No i dont make the products myself and neither do many traders on here ,im all for finding out more about products their ingredients and any secrets revealed LOL but what im trying to say its unprofessional for Coke and Pepsi to have a slanging match in the open ?


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## Deanoecosse (Mar 15, 2007)

david g said:


> i just think manufacturers shouldnt be the ones asking the questions about product x but more or less the consumer :thumb:


just because Dom is a manufacturer of his own waxes, why should it prevent him from asking questions regarding a rivals mega priced wax? He like the rest of us would love to know what this wonder wax offers above Zymols previous range topper Royale to justify the huge price differential. I know the price of gold is pretty healthy at the moment, but that must be one helluva big golden spoon that comes with the pot to warrant asking £40k!

So, if anyone from Zymol is reading this, just what does Solaris offer above Royale??


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

I bet Zymol are loving this thread LOL :thumb:


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Posting this and that about traders and certain products would probably shatter many an illusion the unsuspecting purchaser had so I'll leave that alone.

I want these tests around hydroxide bonding to be released, if it really is the future. I mean PTFE, cast that aside teflon doesn't like to stick to anything apart from itself - and the process you'd have to goto to get your car coated in functional teflon would land you in hospital and your car burned out.

Hydroxide bonding, yes maybe as a hydroxide group already possess a negative charge but then I still don't believe a functional AND beneficial bond could be created between this and a sealant or wax, mainly due to the process in initiating the reaction. Because you certainly don't want to turn the hydroxide into anything damagin - as this can happen. Its really unlikely that you'd be able to get the generally public to create the required reaction by just rubbing something on their paint - but then I'm a sceptic I'll believe it when I see it.

As for durability tests... these are all very well and good but we land ourselves in trouble because there's no control measures, nothing to judge it against. Different countries have different climates which can adversely affect duribility. Yachts and buildings have vertical surfaces so things are inclined to land and fall off whereas a car has horizontal suraces so when things land they stay and eat into the layer of protection. Also where's the business sense in having a product which would TRUELY last 2 years on a car? Repeat purchases would be an absolute minimum, and by the time 2 years came R&D would have done its job and the product advanced to the next stage - seems a tough toss up to me.

AS for Zymol, again top quality products. It's not a name that needs to justify itself. I mean look how much Apple products cost in comparison to an Archaos of Creative or Sony MP3 player, compare your smart price toilet paper to your Andrex. Consumer buying behaviour leans less toward price sensitivity with big purchases, granted, but it's always in someones mind. Solaris is a sound purchase, and probably won't be used by many instead kept as an investment - if it is a true limited run it will only increase in value. I've yet to see a bad product by Zymol.


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## caddyman (Dec 2, 2008)

Select Detailing said:


> Looking at a post link below, look at the reflection shot that were obtained from Royale on the Arden Blue VXR, YOU CANT FAULT THE PRODUCT AT ALL!
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=25400&highlight=astra


Sorry but it's not the wax giving them reflections but the paint finish after polishing and you as a detailer should know this

for example:









Cracking reflections on this ford st - but guess what it doesn't have a single coat of wax on it!!!


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

david g said:


> No i dont make the products myself and neither do many traders on here ,im all for finding out more about products their ingredients and any secrets revealed LOL but what im trying to say its unprofessional for Coke and Pepsi to have a slanging match in the open ?


Yer but on the scale of things, pepsi aint 100X more than Coke is it.

I think its fair and just to have to at least give a reason for the price tag, if a double glazing guy came to sell you a window and said this one is 1200 and this ones 10grand, you would ask, whats the difference ........ no?

If he turned around and said, they are the same but this one is delivered in a silk sleeve and you get a signed bit of fancy paper with it, would you pay the extra?


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Select Detailing said:


> I think fair points have been raised about the content and what is put in to some of these items.
> 
> I do not know the tech and lab side of products, all i can tell is this, when I come across a product that gives me the following.
> 
> ...


I know the test, and unfortunately there could be problems arising from cross contimination of the oils and glazing agents in the wax from panel to panel, which could easily have led to some waxes failing prematurely. You've got to remember durability is heavily based around your driving style, the climate the car is in, the climate you applied the LSP in, the weather, the amont of fall out on your car, the amount of times you wash the car... and so on.

Branding, image and advertising play a heavy part - I love marking and the extremely complex world it lives in. A lot of it is obviously related to psychology - we gravitate towards familiarity in the same way if we were sat in a room of people we'd gravitate to someone we've had previous dealings with rahter than a stranger. Works the same for products as well.


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

david g said:


> Hey Dom i have never had an issue with finding out about products and their secret ingredients ,what the issue i have is unproessionalism of other manufacturers questioning competitors products and claims re marketing BS
> Do Pepsi challenge Coke ? No ,and why ,they dont care and concentrate on their own products :thumb:


I hardly think it's unprofessional questioning competitors or their products, as long as it is done politely. I want a fair and level playing field as I'm sure everyone else does.:wave:

If we claimed our waxes were '100% natural', I'd expect competitors and customers to question a claim like that.

If everyone stuck their head in the sand, there would be a great potential for the public to be misled. That's why people should be allowed to question stuff and why those govt regulators exist - not that they seem to do much good.

I am waiting for OFWAX to come along :buffer:


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

caddyman said:


> Sorry but it's not the wax giving them reflections but the paint finish after polishing and you as a detailer should know this
> 
> for example:
> 
> ...


Well said that man, the most reflective your car will be (I'll bet) is after your IPA wipedown following a full correction. This is due to the RI of your clearcoat. When you add a wax you are increasing the RI and in turn decreasing th reflections - however technically its probably not noticable to the naked eye. Then its a trade off between protection and reflection. This is what I summise after Gordon shared a lot of nice info with me and after seeing the lab results.

I'll bet any pro detailer could use TurtleWax and get as good a reflection is using any £30+ wax and I'd love to see someone go for it (Gordon are you reading!).


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Spoony said:


> I'll bed any pro detailer


You'll what?? :doublesho :lol: :lol:

(nice edit...but I have the original and the screen capture ) :lol:


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Viper said:


> Spoony said:
> 
> 
> > I'll bed any pro detailer QUOTE]
> ...


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## caddyman (Dec 2, 2008)

Classic i thought i was seeing things when i read the reply to my post!!


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Very interesting thread.

And all things I agree on. Marketing BS.

I am always amazed at the language used when promoting there wears.

Yes the market is flooded with good or even great products. And I can see the need to make you product sound different from your rivals. But essentially most produce have the same ingredients. Maybe blended slightly differently. But on a hole the same. What works for one does not work for another. Whether it be a car or a product.

But at what point does this become spying?? Yes humans will always be curious as to what their neighbour is up to and I guess manufacturers also. But surely it is better to develop your own branding and products than continually look over your shoulders at your neighbours.

As for Covalent bonding and PTFE. We lets just leave it there shall we. More marketing crud.

IR Spectrometers again have there uses. But these only pin point and analyse gases. A much better way of divulging products make up and it can also disclose the volumes of these. Is an electron microscope. Totally non intrusive and very much an eye opener, as to product make ups and the like. I have been lucky enough to have been shown some ever interesting facts as far as waxes and there make you at a local uni and I am looking forward to my next visit. Hopefully soon I i can fee up some more time.

Lots of question being answered. Does white or bleached carnauba have a low RI than a natural carnauba. Does colourant also effect this Reflective rating. What is more durable nuba in its natural state or modiffied. As I said all interesting and this is what make detailing fun. For me anyway.

But surely its better to mind your own products and keep a head of the completion. Than chasing them.
Gordon.


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## ross-1888 (Feb 22, 2009)

Dodo Factory said:


> I want a fair and level playing field as I'm sure everyone else does.:wave:


can i just drop something in here. i dont think personally that dodo juice are in the same league as zymol.

ON to my next point

WHAT is the point in this thread. There are 24 pots of this wax all sold out. probably to millionaire car enthusiasts.

For all we know its royale in a different pot. Ive seen waxes in the current market that are basically all the same just with different colours and different pots and varying prices. If Zymol choose to market a super high priced wax to keep the profile up of there company up then thats up too them. There are many waxes on the market as well as other products that Marketed in such a way that folk think that they are something that they are not.

on the final note. WELL DONE ZYMOL they have sold effectivly £1,000,000 worth of wax to folk with too much bloody money. It is the reputation of zymol that folk trust that the £40,000 they pay for this wax is worth it.


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Mind your own products?

'WELL DONE ZYMOL' for selling a million quid of wax to rich people.

I've heard it all now 

OK, I'll only comment on Dodo Juice products from now on and leave you to your golden spoons. Good luck


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

We all know that if you had a perfectly polished car, and waxed one half with a £20 wax and the other half with a £40,000 wax and then asked the first person to walk by which side looks better, they would probably not even notice a difference. 

But hey if the customers who did stump up the cash and their happy then there we are.

I too would love to hear justification for the price but that is not going to happen so will just have to accept it.


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## Maggi200 (Aug 21, 2009)

david g said:


> Do Pepsi challenge Coke ? No ,and why ,they dont care and concentrate on their own products :thumb:


Coke vs Pepsi? Companies do this all the time like here.  The pepsi challenge!


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## pdv40 (Sep 11, 2008)

david g said:


> Do Pepsi challenge Coke ? No ,and why ,they dont care and concentrate on their own products :thumb:


Umm....










:thumb:


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## caddyman (Dec 2, 2008)

That's classic they've always been at loggerheads audi and bmw


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## -ROM- (Feb 23, 2007)

I reckon they didn't actually sell any Solaris, they were just so embarrassed that no one would buy it and it hanging round like a bad smell they just put it in pots labeled concours and sold it for £130 a pop.


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## -ROM- (Feb 23, 2007)

On a more serious note i wonder where it would actually end do Zymol now make an even more exclusive £100,000 wax and after that a £250,000 until they are at the £1 million mark and only produce 3 pots in theory i'm sure you could eventually find 3 super rich billionaires who's buy it. Would the argument "as long as the customer is happy with their purchase" still stand???


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

no ones said it yet, but im sure we have all done it at some point. imagine dropping your 40K pot of wax on the floor and smashing it........ Oooch, i done a pot of Ital once and that hurt enough...


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Wow, $40,000 for a wax. Must be bloody good for that wonga, anyone bought the odd pot on here???


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## adam87 (Dec 11, 2008)

Oh my days what have I done :lol:


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

^^ :lol:

Started a forum riot dude ha ha


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

I know who i agree with here and its Dodo.

I would love to know the cost of the actual wax product in the Solaris container. I would bet that the container/spoon (whatever you get with it) cost Zymol more than the actual wax product inside.

'The power of the sun' 

Dom, maybe you can make us one harnessing the power of the rain for the much cheaper price of 20,000?? 

Then you can suddenly tell us 'sorry all units sold' :doublesho


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## pdv40 (Sep 11, 2008)

^^ you're like the guy who goggled google! It's the end of the internet, run!

eta: should have refreshed the page before I posted that :wall:, wasn't aimed at you doc :thumb:


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## caddyman (Dec 2, 2008)

At the end of the day the wax has sold out - so no matter what no one on here i don't think is rich enough to buy any in the first place

It could contain superman's sperm for all i care, Why do you need to know what it's exact chemical formula is for? YOU AIN'T EVER GOING TO GET ANY!!!

24 lucky owners can show it to their friends and say guess how much this exclusive wax cost etc etc


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## adam87 (Dec 11, 2008)

Can we go back up the dark roads to the rainbows please and stop abusing Zymol. 

What was a discussion has turned into an slaughter match.


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

caddyman said:


> At the end of the day the wax has sold out - so no matter what no one on here i don't think is rich enough to buy any in the first place
> 
> It could contain superman's sperm for all i care, Why do you need to know what it's exact chemical formula is for? YOU AIN'T EVER GOING TO GET ANY!!!
> 
> 24 lucky owners can show it to their friends and say guess how much this exclusive wax cost etc etc


Nobody wants the exact ingredients?
I think you'd better go back and read the thread again...


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

If i was very rich i would probably buy it to say i had.

If its sold out then it has,not much more to say really


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

the_knight said:


> If its sold out then it has,not much more to say really


Only kick ourselves for missing such a bargain that harnesses the power of the sun!!


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## aron147 (Sep 5, 2009)

ppppfff the whole zymol thing... i don't like it..

the money i already spent on waxes is not that much.. but i will never ever let me rip off by somebody called "gerbrand" who want to sell zymol in holland..

no way..

just like the special ferrari / porsche / saab / lamborghini waxes.. it's all BS


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## Select Detailing (Feb 19, 2009)

caddyman said:


> Sorry but it's not the wax giving them reflections but the paint finish after polishing and you as a detailer should know this
> 
> for example:
> 
> ...


So what your saying to me as a detailer, is the Royale does nothing to enhance the appearance of the vehicle.

Very aware of what a detailer is Thank You. After all its is how i make my living.


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## Select Detailing (Feb 19, 2009)

I spent quite a few hours on the phone to Dom to day regarding this post, and it was my first time in dealing with Dodo in person.

Dom has raised some very clear points with claims that have been made, and we have spoken about many different aspects to the content of wax.

People at the end of the day will always have there own thoughts about items and stuff that can be brought. I think that Zymol do a grand job at making waxes and have built this rep up over many years, where as Dom with Dodo is still working to making Dodo and the brand a Global Brand.

With what he has achieved he has done well. 

I have my own thoughts on this and will watch this thread.


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## aron147 (Sep 5, 2009)

i dont know if its the same at you're zymol shop, but here, the guy CLAIM'S, you NEED hd cleanse, otherwise, the wax WON'T bond to the paint,
wich is, in my opinion, absolute nonsense!

waxes like vintage suppose to be GOOD, and the price is.. good i have to say!

but solaris is just.. a dream.. an illusion to own THE VERY BEST there is..

and it CAN be the best wax ever made.. but the price is just.. ridiculous


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

adam87 said:


> Oh my days what have I done :lol:


the same thing many before you have done and many more will do 

And it will always go the same way.

Those that have tried the products and can truely comment on them and those that haven't and can't justify the cost to themselves so don't comment and those that can't justify the cost but feel they have to question why anyone would want to buy them.

One thing I don't understand is why it's only ever Zymol that get this treatment, why don't Swissvax or Dodo (Supernatural) or Chemical Guys (E-zyme) get the same as they have expensive waxes.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

I think this has run its course again...


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