# Detailing product's tested on animal's?



## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

Don't know if this topic bothered me or not today but I was surprised to hear and see that a vast majority of detailing product's content's are or were tested on humans as well as other animal's, so sorry if there's dog lover's and you've a bottle of meguiar's in the kit bag.
Just wanted to open this out and get other's reaction's and see if there's been any manufacturer's take note and acted on alternative's.


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## wadoryu (Jan 28, 2010)

Surprising, but I suppose to get proper testing saying dermatology tested you have to take the proper procedures.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Another "I've read stuff" type of post. 
Difficult to engage in a proper debate without some hard evidence. We will have the dog lover here soon enough who knows things from very reliable sources.

Still, good for popcorn sales I guess.


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

S63 said:


> Another "I've read stuff" type of post.
> Difficult to engage in a proper debate without some hard evidence.


Hay bud am not a c*ck in a*se kind of bloke so am not that type of person, unless it's been posted in club 18 or the sport newspaper chances are ive probably not read it or looked into it.
The evidence factor for these sort of thing's would be finding the key ingredient's of the product's and possibly looking into the manufacturer's msd report's which am sure many have or believed to have asked for, I have seen the msd for the meg's hyper detailer however and it's there in black in white.


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

Not looking for a big debate or argumentative post's just a qwery really to see who actually do give thought's when buying these product's or if it's ever really crossed anyone's mind's before purchace.


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## Waylander-A4 (May 29, 2013)

I guess it's a reality for lots of products not just detailing stuff, household cleaners and all sorts. I does grate a bit.

As I have spent the last 10 years training guide dog puppies I try not to think about to much.
But it is in the back of my mind sometimes especially with the hard chemicals in fallout removers and stuff and I keep the dogs well away from it all

Regards


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## archiebald (Sep 7, 2009)

My wife is a dog groomer and I accidentally loaded her lice shampoo into the snow foam gun (same bottle and colour as my megs hyper). Best shine and foam I ever put on the car and the dirt it pulled was fantastic


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

I think everyone has a wrong image of "testing on animals". everything happens in a controlled enviroment, is checked constantly and is tested in the lab many and many times before even tested on animals. and how do they test this? they don't poor it on them and let them suffer... you may see this in some 3th world countries, but the EU has a lot of rules and are very very often checked to make sure the animals are in the best possible condition and enviroment ever. I've seen them in a better enviroment then at some farmers/breeders/...
Don't "over do" that subject. everything you know is tested somehow...


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

Lots of things are tested on animals and as said above they don't just make a product, pick a random animal and throw it at them. If they didn't test on animals, we could be using chemicals that were far less safe for us. 

Not going to change what I buy unless there's evidence that they are miss treating the animals.


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

rayner said:


> Lots of things are tested on animals and as said above they don't just make a product, pick a random animal and throw it at them. If they didn't test on animals, we could be using chemicals that were far less safe for us.
> 
> Not going to change what I buy unless there's evidence that they are miss treating the animals.


So,what you say is:kill a dog for a good snowfoam..
If we were talking about Experiments on animals for a new cancer drug is one thing!.
But,we still need to rember to be human to our environment,otherwise we can throw whole humanity to the garbage,and have total chaos.


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## rhyst (Feb 17, 2013)

Ive heard Tripple is tested on ants eyes


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## Kiashuma (May 4, 2011)

Not sure all i know is a strong mix of G101 kills wasps


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## ianrobbo1 (Feb 13, 2007)

My size 8 kills more ants than any polish I use!! :doublesho am I a bad person??


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## Frans D (May 23, 2011)

I would be much easier if you could post up sources were you found out that they tested on dogs.
The only thing I am aware of, is that they are using rodents to test on toxics in products.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

What gets me is that most products at some time have been tested on animals (perhaps not the product you have in your hand) but the constituent chemicals that go into it will have been)

but why use animals... when you can err...

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005168

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

ronwash said:


> So,what you say is:kill a dog for a good snowfoam..
> If we were talking about Experiments on animals for a new cancer drug is one thing!.
> But,we still need to rember to be human to our environment,otherwise we can throw whole humanity to the garbage,and have total chaos.


No, this is what I said...



rayner said:


> Lots of things are tested on animals and as said above they don't just make a product, pick a random animal and throw it at them. If they didn't test on animals, we could be using chemicals that were far less safe for us.
> 
> Not going to change what I buy unless there's evidence that they are miss treating the animals.


:thumb:

Science is far more advanced than just throwing chemicals at dogs to see what happens, it's not me in the lab!


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

rayner said:


> No, this is what I said...
> 
> :thumb:
> 
> Science is far more advanced than just throwing chemicals at dogs to see what happens, it's not me in the lab!


You throw a thunb up to what you said earlier?!..
You dont need to be in person in the lab for doing wrong!.


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

ronwash said:


> You throw a thunb up to what you said earlier?!..
> You dont need to be in person in the lab for doing wrong!.


Why would the person in the lab be doing something wrong? he's just doing his job. Would you like to volunteer as test person?
and to check something for human, they will either use a mous or a pig as they resemble the human the best.
and if everyone is against animal testing, stop washing yourself, as they are tested, stop washing your hair, stop brushing your teeth, stop having vaccinations, and please o please, Stop eating, as you have no idea how many animals are used to test the food they get to grow the best they can without getting sick, so the farmers costs are lower so he earns something...

To be against animal experiments is very hypocritical as almost everything you use has been tested.


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

ronwash said:


> You throw a thunb up to what you said earlier?!..
> You dont need to be in person in the lab for doing wrong!.


No, you were trying to put words in my mouth........?

These people who test things know what they're doing, that's what I meant by it's not me in the lab.

Don't you think it would be all over the news if they were killing animals?

They go through many tests to make sure it won't kill animals before they test it on them...

Would you rather people just made products and sent them out with no concern about what it might do to you or me or anyone else using the product?


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

What detailing products are being tested on animals?


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## alxg (May 3, 2009)

I think, although I don't agree with the concept, that there would be far less of the things we all take for granted on a daily basis if it wasn't for this type of testing method; I once worked inside one of these places (as a contractor doing a different kind of work, not an actual lab worker btw) and it does broaden your perspective somewhat.

I wouldn't be too surprised if many detailing products were tested in this way before being released to the public.


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## richtea78 (Apr 16, 2011)

You know, I'd far rather they tested it on an animal than on me! 

And I don't care if its a dog. Why make the distinction between a dog or another animal?


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

I just tried to polish and seal the neighbours cat but it didn't work out


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## Bulkhead (Oct 17, 2007)

Maybe The Body Shop should develop a range of detailing products. Although I think some are missing the big picture. What about the harm to wildlife caused by surfactants, solvents etc that are used on a daily basis and washed/dumped without a second thought? I'm no greenie but it seems strange to pick on one facet of product exposure to animals whilst ignoring the biggest.


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

everything that has the slightest possibility to harm something or someone has to be tested. first the researcher has to do some serious research about the subject or matter. then they have to write everything down to the littlest details like how many animals you want to use and why, and hand it over to a commity, who will check everything. and if they think you even have 1 animal to much, they will not allow it. so any product in the hands of an ignorant one can potentially do more harm then when a researcher uses it.


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## trv8 (Dec 30, 2007)

k9vnd said:


> Not looking for a big debate or argumentative post's just a qwery really to see who actually do give thought's when buying these product's or if it's ever really crossed anyone's mind's before purchace.


OK, simple answers......

1) NO, I don't give a second thought when buying any products.

2) No, it doesn't cross my mind before purchasing any products.


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## ColinG (Jan 20, 2013)

Something I would never have thought about, but makes a lot of sense now you mention it. I guess like some of the other posters I would prefer not, but its maybe just a harsh reality these kind of tests have to be done to get products to market?


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

If anybody is concerned or worried about detailing products being tested on animals I would ask "do you also check your choice of toiletries like soap, shampoo, toothpaste, deodorant. Does your partner/wife use perfumes, makeup etc? All the medication we take for granted do we question that?

The list is endless. Only if someone gives me concrete hard evidence that there is immoral or unscrupulous testing leading to animals being treated cruelly when there maybe an alternative product available that doesn't use similar testing methods would I give it consideration.

Once again I ask to see the evidence, which products should we think twice about before purchasing?


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

S63 said:


> If anybody is concerned or worried about detailing products being tested on animals I would ask "do you also check your choice of toiletries like soap, shampoo, toothpaste, deodorant. Does your partner/wife use perfumes, makeup etc? All the medication we take for granted do we question that?
> 
> The list is endless. Only if someone gives me concrete hard evidence that there is immoral or unscrupulous testing leading to animals being treated cruelly when there maybe an alternative product available that doesn't use similar testing methods would I give it consideration.
> 
> Once again I ask to see the evidence, which products should we think twice about before purchasing?


No one should "give" you anything.
its your "job" as a human to care.
otherwise,theres a name for pepole that sitting and waiting for "evidence",doing what they like,with no care to other living "things".
do you really want me to spell it to you??


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## Raging Squirrel (Aug 28, 2013)

Guinea pigs are used for lots of testing

Worst thing I saw was video evidence from a well known dry dog food manufacturer where beagles were tested on chunks of fat cut from their torso and left to one side for hours before being stitched up, and being debarked if too loud and living in cages with chicken wire floors.......all from a pet food supplier


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## richtea78 (Apr 16, 2011)

ronwash said:


> No one should "give" you anything.
> its your "job" as a human to care.
> otherwise,theres a name for pepole that sitting and waiting for "evidence",doing what they like,with no care to other living "things".
> do you really want me to spell it to you??


I don't care enough to be bothered about it that much. It must be nice to be as moral as you are though. I take it you don't eat any meat or wear leather products etc?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

ronwash said:


> No one should "give" you anything.
> its your "job" as a human to care.
> otherwise,theres a name for pepole that sitting and waiting for "evidence",doing what they like,with no care to other living "things".
> do you really want me to spell it to you??


:thumb: It does seem some people need others to find the evidence for them, or maybe they just use this excuse to cover there own ignorance. theres plenty of evidence of this on the internet and its not hard to find, if they can be bothered


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

S63 said:


> Another "I've read stuff" type of post.
> Difficult to engage in a proper debate without some hard evidence. *We will have the dog lover here soon enough who knows things from very reliable sources.*
> 
> Still, good for popcorn sales I guess.


:tumbleweed:
i wonder who you mean :wave:
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

rayner said:


> Lots of things are tested on animals and as said above they don't just make a product, pick a random animal and throw it at them. If they didn't test on animals, we could be using chemicals that were far less safe for us.
> 
> Not going to change what I buy unless there's evidence that they are miss treating the animals.


when buying a product do you first check before hand if they are miss treating animals, or just buy it ?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

rayner said:


> No, you were trying to put words in my mouth........?
> 
> These people who test things know what they're doing, that's what I meant by it's not me in the lab.
> 
> ...


 you obviously dont relise the lengths they go to so the evidence doesn't get out of the torture that some animals go through.
In America alone 66000 dog a year are used for experiments never mine all the other animals and country's.
Personally instead of using animals there are plenty of people that could be used, like rapists, pedophiles, killers etc but these have rights unlike innocent animals.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Blackmondie said:


> Why would the person in the lab be doing something wrong? he's just doing his job. Would you like to volunteer as test person?
> and to check something for human, they will either use a mous or a pig as they resemble the human the best.
> and if everyone is against animal testing, stop washing yourself, as they are tested, stop washing your hair, stop brushing your teeth, stop having vaccinations, and please o please, Stop eating, as you have no idea how many animals are used to test the food they get to grow the best they can without getting sick, so the farmers costs are lower so he earns something...
> 
> *To be against animal experiments is very hypocritical as almost everything you use has been tested.*


*
*

there are plenty of companys that are against using animals for experiments :thumb:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Raging Squirrel said:


> Guinea pigs are used for lots of testing
> 
> Worst thing I saw was video evidence from a well known dry dog food manufacturer where beagles were tested on chunks of fat cut from their torso and left to one side for hours before being stitched up, and being debarked if too loud and living in cages with chicken wire floors.......all from a pet food supplier


Yea 
I ams knowing what you mean


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

richtea78 said:


> I don't care enough to be bothered about it that much. It must be nice to be as moral as you are though. I take it you don't eat any meat or wear leather products etc?


To be honest,no,i dont.
this a little bit more important issue then moral..


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## Bulkhead (Oct 17, 2007)

Whilst not wishing to antagonise the animal lovers, I would say you all have bought and used products tested on animals. Food products, Beaty products, pharmaceuticals etc are the result of animal testing. Obviously, their use is lower than it once was which can only be a good thing. I will say though that some well-meaning organisations do promote complete falsehoods regarding many medical experiments. It is extremely expensive to run animal trials, they are highly regulated and usually only used as a last resort. If you look into past cases where trials were not completed appropriately, such as the use of Thalidomide during pregnancy, you will see the need for extensive studies. The next time you reach for a pain killer, anti-inflammatory, antibiotic etc, just bare in mind it is available due to animal testing.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Although I don't approve of testing on amimals, if I didn't enough to avoid products, I would be extremely limited to many products I buy in real life. 

I'm not going to go out of my way to study and find what products are being tested on what animals. 

I just have to hope that everyone is doing their job correctly and all procedures and controls are in place.

For the people who have issues with animal testing and are upset at those not seeking the information, do you study what petrol, oils, coolants, windscreen washes etc you use in your car? What about foods and personal care items? 

It's practically impossible to avoid. You'd spend your life investigating every single detail to even discover if animals were used. 

We do many things to affect animals other than just test products.


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## Strongey (Apr 16, 2013)

Raging Squirrel said:


> Guinea pigs are used for lots of testing
> 
> Worst thing I saw was video evidence from a well known dry dog food manufacturer where beagles were tested on chunks of fat cut from their torso and left to one side for hours before being stitched up, and being debarked if too loud and living in cages with chicken wire floors.......all from a pet food supplier


i dare say this wasnt in the uk or if it was, wasnt anytime lately



Bulkhead said:


> Whilst not wishing to antagonise the animal lovers, I would say you all have bought and used products tested on animals. Food products, Beaty products, pharmaceuticals etc are the result of animal testing. Obviously, their use is lower than it once was which can only be a good thing. I will say though that some well-meaning organisations do promote complete falsehoods regarding many medical experiments. It is extremely expensive to run animal trials, they are highly regulated and usually only used as a last resort. If you look into past cases where trials were not completed appropriately, such as the use of Thalidomide during pregnancy, you will see the need for extensive studies. The next time you reach for a pain killer, anti-inflammatory, antibiotic etc, just bare in mind it is available due to animal testing.


i completely agree with this. If it wasnt for pharmaceutical testing, id likely be very ill due to diabetes, die of an asthma attack, or suffer far more than i already do with my ever collapsing spine.

I would be the biggest hipocrite ever if i were to jump on the 'stop animal testing' bandwagon


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Bulkhead said:


> Whilst not wishing to antagonise the animal lovers, I would say you all have bought and used products tested on animals. Food products, Beaty products, pharmaceuticals etc are the result of animal testing. Obviously, their use is lower than it once was which can only be a good thing. I will say though that some well-meaning organisations do promote complete falsehoods regarding many medical experiments. It is extremely expensive to run animal trials, they are highly regulated and usually only used as a last resort. If you look into past cases where trials were not completed appropriately, such as the use of Thalidomide during pregnancy, you will see the need for extensive studies. The next time you reach for a pain killer, anti-inflammatory, antibiotic etc, just bare in mind it is available due to animal testing.


think the hole point of this thread is being lost, we are not talking about pharmaceuticals or anything that is as important. the op wants to know about testing on animals for cleaning/detailing products which is a totally different matter.
personally i'm against it but do accept it in certain fields such as research into over coming life threatening illnesses and medication, but for such things as cleaning products no.


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

Raging Squirrel said:


> Guinea pigs are used for lots of testing
> 
> Worst thing I saw was video evidence from a well known dry dog food manufacturer where beagles were tested on chunks of fat cut from their torso and left to one side for hours before being stitched up, and being debarked if too loud and living in cages with chicken wire floors.......all from a pet food supplier


as said before, you will find this in 3th world countres, but not in the EU! they are very supervised and checked on health an suffering. there are rules for the area's they are kept in, the floor, the lighting, the natural light, food & water, exercise,...



cheekymonkey said:


> :tumbleweed:
> i wonder who you mean :wave:
> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


If you are a dog lover, please stop giving them food, all this feed is tested on other dogs to see if they aren't allergical, drop dead, ... so who's the hypocrit now?



cheekymonkey said:


> you obviously dont relise the lengths they go to so the evidence doesn't get out of the torture that some animals go through.
> In America alone 66000 dog a year are used for experiments never mine all the other animals and country's.
> Personally instead of using animals there are plenty of people that could be used, like rapists, pedophiles, killers etc but these have rights unlike innocent animals.


Obviously, you have no idea what you are talking about, you have no idea what really goes on there, and you obviously have never been to a breeder and compared to the real thing that's going on there. If lots of dogs died, that can be because Pacemakers are also tested on dog. I hope you never need one!
an animal will never have to go through any torture en left like this. what you are talking about are medievil practises. I welcome you to the year 2013!



cheekymonkey said:


> [/B]
> 
> there are plenty of companys that are against using animals for experiments :thumb:


Yes, and they just buy or copy stuff from another company that did do they testing, but hey, their hands or clean...


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Blackmondie said:


> If you are a dog lover, please stop giving them food, all this feed is tested on other dogs to see if they aren't allergical, drop dead, ... so who's the hypocrit now?
> 
> yea right none of the food i feed my dogs is tested on any dog or animal:thumb:
> 
> thats guaranteed :thumb: You may be better knowing the facts before you call someone a hypocrite


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> :thumb: It does seem some people need others to find the evidence for them, or maybe they just use this excuse to cover there own ignorance. theres plenty of evidence of this on the internet and its not hard to find, if they can be bothered


And have you made sure all this 'evidence' is correct & not fabricated?


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> Blackmondie said:
> 
> 
> > If you are a dog lover, please stop giving them food, all this feed is tested on other dogs to see if they aren't allergical, drop dead, ... so who's the hypocrit now?
> ...


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Blackmondie said:


> Obviously, you have no idea what you are talking about, you have no idea what really goes on there, and you obviously have never been to a breeder and compared to the real thing that's going on there. If lots of dogs died, that can be because Pacemakers are also tested on dog. I hope you never need one!
> an animal will never have to go through any torture en left like this. what you are talking about are medievil practises. I welcome you to the year 2013!
> 
> what does a breeder have to do with animal testing?, and still in 2013 dogs are force fed chemical or injected with chemicals resulting in a slow painful death.
> ...


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Blackmondie said:


> cheekymonkey said:
> 
> 
> > ask me what I do for a living?
> ...


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

rayner said:


> And have you made sure all this 'evidence' is correct & not fabricated?


have a read of the 2 links and follow some of the links on that page :thumb:

do you have 'evidence' it is all fabricated


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

these things are not allowed in the EU and if they are done, they will find out and will be made sure that can't happen again. there are to many regulations. and PETA is just sh*t. they complain that a horse is cold in the winter because it doesn't have a blanket on... horses are better at -5°C then at +5°C. they are just dumb*sses that don't no what they are talking about.

and clearly you don't know about your dogs food,, unless it isn't commercial, as otherwise, I know what we, or collegues test.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Blackmondie said:


> Yes, and they just buy or copy stuff from another company that did do they testing, but hey, their hands or clean...


again your wrong alot of these companys manufacture there own and are not copys


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

there is no point talking to you guys, as you think you know it all. when they feed something to dogs and check up, that is also animal testing, no need for chemicals, ... they HAVE to check. you can not bring something on the market that is not tested.that is just not allowed!


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> you obviously dont relise the lengths they go to so the evidence doesn't get out of the torture that some animals go through.
> In America alone 66000 dog a year are used for experiments never mine all the other animals and country's.
> Personally instead of using animals there are plenty of people that could be used, like rapists, pedophiles, killers etc but these have rights unlike innocent animals.


speculation.

A company spends a couple of million on R&D, a couple million on animal testing, a couple of million paying people off to not say anything, a couple of million on advertising to sell me a bottle of shampoo for a fiver? Don't believe everything you read on the internet, some people are so against something they lie through their teeth trying to hurt that thing.

Yes pedo's etc would be far better candidates though.



cheekymonkey said:


> when buying a product do you first check before hand if they are miss treating animals, or just buy it ?


No, I don't spend my life worrying about things I cannot find a 100% definite answer to.

Why, did you build your own house to make sure it wasn't being built on a fluffy badger's set, have you checked all the materials used and EVERY single chemical used within them and EVERY company that makes EVERY nut, bolt, screw, tile, hinge, not just the things you can see either... 
Did you build your own car because your seats were tested for allergic reaction as well as carpets, roof lining......

How many chemicals go into your favorite shampoo? how many of those have you checked to make sure there's no animal testing, have you made sure the factory wasn't built on a slug? it's not just the product itself, it's everything that goes with it, not just what I've put here either, what about the transport from the factory etc.....

It's a completely endless list, and animal testing is a necessary part of life. As unfortunate that animals are used but we cannot and will not avoid it. Whether it's detailing products or not and until you can honestly answer yes to the above, you can come down off your high horse.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Blackmondie said:


> as said before, you will find this in 3th world countres, but not in the EU! they are very supervised and checked on health an suffering. there are rules for the area's they are kept in, the floor, the lighting, the natural light, food & water, exercise,...
> 
> the company i know is not from 3rd world country, infact the exact opposite


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

ow, and I hope you never vaccinate your dog... animal tested right up his ...


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> Blackmondie said:
> 
> 
> > as said before, you will find this in 3th world countres, but not in the EU! they are very supervised and checked on health an suffering. there are rules for the area's they are kept in, the floor, the lighting, the natural light, food & water, exercise,...
> ...


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

rayner said:


> speculation.
> 
> A company spends a couple of million on R&D, a couple million on animal testing, a couple of million paying people off to not say anything, a couple of million on advertising to sell me a bottle of shampoo for a fiver? Don't believe everything you read on the internet, some people are so against something they lie through their teeth trying to hurt that thing.
> 
> ...


speculation ?
read the 3rd fourth line :thumb:

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-experimentation/dogs-in-laboratories.aspx

my high horse was never used in testing, but if you read one of my other post i said i am against animal testing, but for medication and illnesses tolerate it.
the purpose This thread was started by the op was peoples thoughts on testing for cleaning and detailing products and not testing in general.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Blackmondie said:


> ow, and I hope you never vaccinate your dog... animal tested right up his ...


what does vaccinating my dog have to do with testing cleaning chemicals and detailing products? 
No i dont vaccinate my dogs, they have regular blood test instead:thumb:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Blackmondie said:


> cheekymonkey said:
> 
> 
> > maybe some Geographical lessons for you:
> ...


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> what does vaccinating my dog have to do with testing cleaning chemicals and detailing products?
> No i dont vaccinate my dogs, they have regular blood test instead:thumb:


do you have children? have you ever been vaccinated?
And I think you are equally bad not vaccinating your dog. if it ever gets sick, your dog will suffer way more then mine!

and testing on animals is the same, wether for chemicals, food, medication, ...


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> speculation ?
> read the 3rd fourth line :thumb:
> 
> http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-experimentation/dogs-in-laboratories.aspx
> ...


I see no evidence there.

I've been following you for a week. Believe me?

The purpose of this thread abd yet you don't answer my question about your favorite car shampoo?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Blackmondie said:


> do you have children? have you ever been vaccinated?
> And I think you are equally bad not vaccinating your dog. if it ever gets sick, your dog will suffer way more then mine!
> 
> and testing on animals is the same, wether for chemicals, food, medication, ...


yes i have children but again that has nothing to do with detailing and cleaning chemicals being tested on animals

Sorry but vaccinating a dog is not all its cracked up to be, check it out on the internet, you will find all you need there but heres i to get you on your way.
I know many vets breeders dog wardens etc and none of them vaccinate there dogs just regular blood tests.
http://www.petmd.com/dog/care/evr_dg_to_vaccinate_or_not_a_vets_perspective#.UjazoNLryCk


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

rayner said:


> I see no evidence there.
> 
> I've been following you for a week. Believe me?
> 
> The purpose of this thread abd yet you don't answer my question about your favorite car shampoo?


wow you've been following me for a week yet this thread is only 3 days old. care to explain that to me

the purpose of this thread is thoughts on whether people agree with testing on animals for detailing and cleaning products


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> wow you've been following me for a week yet this thread is only 3 days old. care to explain that to me
> 
> the purpose of this thread is thoughts on whether people agree with testing on animals for detailing and cleaning products


Precisely my point..... Just because someone writes it on the internet doesn't mean it's true.

Still waiting for your answer re the products you use on your car......


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

each to their own. you hate animal testing, but don't vaccinate your dogs which I think is more cruel then animal testing. it has been tested to develop so other dogs won't get that ill anymore. yett you'd rather have you dog being very ill. who's the cruel one now? same is the breeders you know. they are more likly to die then a vaccinated animal. so I think you are just the same or even worsr letting your animal suffer and doing nothing about it. bloood tests don't protect!


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

rayner said:


> I see no evidence there.
> 
> http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-experimentation/UC-Denver-Investigation.aspx
> 
> ...


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> rayner said:
> 
> 
> > I see no evidence there.
> ...


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Blackmondie said:


> each to their own. you hate animal testing, but don't vaccinate your dogs which I think is more cruel then animal testing. it has been tested to develop so other dogs won't get that ill anymore. yett you'd rather have you dog being very ill. who's the cruel one now? same is the breeders you know. they are more likly to die then a vaccinated animal. so I think you are just the same or even worsr letting your animal suffer and doing nothing about it. bloood tests don't protect!


you dont have a clue how the blood tests are used and i see you only mentioned the breeders not the the vets or veterinary nurses or the dog wardens etc who also use the blood test method. like i say check it out you will find that the vaccines cause more harm then good. With all the dogs i have had and i am talking over 20 dogs none have had a problem even when next door lost hers to parvo none of mine had a problem. if i wanted to be cruel then i would vaccinate them, but i choose the safer options. 
A blood tested dog wont suffer the illnesses and health problems vaccinated dogs get.
an unvaccinated dog is nothing like a test suffered animal


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

rayner said:


> cheekymonkey said:
> 
> 
> > How are 2 pictures of rats and 3 'currently unavailable' videos evidence?
> ...


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> rayner said:
> 
> 
> > if you had read them you would of found out that they all got fined for animal cruelty
> ...


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Blackmondie said:


> each to their own. you hate animal testing, but don't vaccinate your dogs which I think is more cruel then animal testing. it has been tested to develop so other dogs won't get that ill anymore. yett you'd rather have you dog being very ill. who's the cruel one now? same is the breeders you know. they are more likly to die then a vaccinated animal. so I think you are just the same or even worsr letting your animal suffer and doing nothing about it. bloood tests don't protect!


try reading this one
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/8572826/n...vaccinating-your-pet-every-year/#.UjazbdLryCk

this is the blood test route you will find blood test = safer protection

http://www.caberfeidh.com/CanineTiters.htm

http://www.dogs4dogs.com/blog/2008/10/22/titer-test/


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> you dont have a clue how the blood tests are used and i see you only mentioned the breeders not the the vets or veterinary nurses or the dog wardens etc who also use the blood test method. like i say check it out you will find that the vaccines cause more harm then good. With all the dogs i have had and i am talking over 20 dogs none have had a problem even when next door lost hers to parvo none of mine had a problem. if i wanted to be cruel then i would vaccinate them, but i choose the safer options.
> A blood tested dog wont suffer the illnesses and health problems vaccinated dogs get.
> an unvaccinated dog is nothing like a test suffered animal


man, I research and develop vaccinations. I know what they do, how they work,... you just know something because you (think) you hear something.
Vets who work without are just stupid, or after money because he knows there are lots of dumb*sses who think like you.

and like rayner says. writings and fines don't proof anything. I'll start a website and write what activists do, add some cruel pictures and say they are dogs who aren't vaccinated as everyone just has to be the same according to you, then suddenly everything is well and true, because IT'S WRITTEN ON THE INTERNET!:devil::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

rayner said:


> cheekymonkey said:
> 
> 
> > A woman got fined for crossing a red light because she was moving out the way of an ambulance earlier in the year.... Fines mean nothing.
> ...


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

Blackmondie said:


> man, I research and develop vaccinations. I know what they do, how they work,... you just know something because you (think) you hear something.
> Vets who work without are just stupid, or after money because he knows there are lots of dumb*sses who think like you.
> 
> and like rayner says. writings and fines don't proof anything. I'll start a website and write what activists do, add some cruel pictures and say they are dogs who aren't vaccinated as everyone just has to be the same according to you, then suddenly everything is well and true, because IT'S WRITTEN ON THE INTERNET!:devil::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Doesn't even have to be cruel pics. Just a dog that looks dead will do ie sleeping.....


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> iits there in black and white if you choose not to believe it not once not twise but 3 times and 1 of them is from a member of staff then your only fooling your self, there was evidence they committed animal cruelty but you just keep you head buried in the sand :wall:


like I said, if I write something, it's also black on white.
I can't have my head in the sand, as I have to keep an eye on all the animals I work with 
I do this for a living; so please stop your idiotic comments, because you have never been there, you don't know what's really going on. go hug a skunk


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Blackmondie said:


> man, I research and develop vaccinations. I know what they do, how they work,... you just know something because you (think) you hear something.
> Vets who work without are just stupid, or after money because he knows there are lots of dumb*sses who think like you.
> 
> and like rayner says. writings and fines don't proof anything. I'll start a website and write what activists do, add some cruel pictures and say they are dogs who aren't vaccinated as everyone just has to be the same according to you, then suddenly everything is well and true, because IT'S WRITTEN ON THE INTERNET!:devil::lol::lol::lol::lol:


so you are part of the scam that fools people into thinking there dog has to be vaccinated every so you can make more money, you will also know that each year the vaccine given isnt always every thing parts are missing yet vaccine manufactures still charge the same. 
well your just as bad as rayner then if your just going to believe what you want to believe because it suites you.
is the research and developing you do is for dog vaccination ?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Blackmondie said:


> like I said, if I write something, it's also black on white.
> I can't have my head in the sand, as I have to keep an eye on all the animals I work with
> I do this for a living; so please stop your idiotic comments, because you have never been there, you don't know what's really going on. go hug a skunk


what all them animals you test on i take it, just shows how much care your taking of them animals, youve been on here all morning


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> so you are part of the scam that fools people into thinking there dog has to be vaccinated every so you can make more money, you will also know that each year the vaccine given isnt always every thing parts are missing yet vaccine manufactures still charge the same.
> well your just as bad as rayner then if your just going to believe what you want to believe because it suites you.
> is the research and developing you do is for dog vaccination ?


please learn to read; they make money because some people think they save the world by not vaccinating.

and where would you get the idea tha some things are missing. Do you work in the lab? do you develop them and research them? O, no wait, that's me. So stop posting lies you have no evidence about! It's easy to keep posting lies like that.



cheekymonkey said:


> what all them animals you test on i take it, just shows how much care your taking of them animals, youve been on here all morning


Some people are on holiday you know... that's because I work enough and do long days to keep an eye on my animals.


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> so you are part of the scam that fools people into thinking there dog has to be vaccinated every so you can make more money, you will also know that each year the vaccine given isnt always every thing parts are missing yet vaccine manufactures still charge the same.
> well your just as bad as rayner then if your just going to believe what you want to believe because it suites you.
> is the research and developing you do is for dog vaccination ?


I don't believe things because it suits me at all, when I see something wrong by my beliefs I stop whatever that was.

As for vaccination, my family has had over 100 dogs everyone has been vaccinated, non of which have had ANY side effects whatsoever. I know someone who doesn't vaccinate, he's always in the vets.

Even that's not evidence that vaccination is good....


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

cheekymonkey said:


> :tumbleweed:
> i wonder who you mean :wave:
> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Why, you of course, judging by the way this thread is heading I'd guess you'll be consistent in getting it closed.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

yawn....

lets stop the bickering please..


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Blackmondie said:


> please learn to read; they make money because some people think they save the world by not vaccinating.
> 
> and where would you get the idea tha some things are missing. Do you work in the lab? do you develop them and research them? O, no wait, that's me. So stop posting lies you have no evidence about! It's easy to keep posting lies like that.
> 
> ...


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

rayner said:


> I don't believe things because it suits me at all, when I see something wrong by my beliefs I stop whatever that was.
> 
> As for vaccination, my family has had over 100 dogs everyone has been vaccinated, non of which have had ANY side effects whatsoever. I know someone who doesn't vaccinate, he's always in the vets.
> 
> Even that's not evidence that vaccination is good....


have you read about the titers (blood test method of protection)
it works on the principles that each dog is different size, age, condition, and the immune system again are different.
how it works is when your dog is a pup you have them vaccinated i personally have the 3 injection course. then a year later have a blood test done which tells you what immunity your dog has to each virus. if any are low then you have the injection to top that one up but none of the others as the immunity 
is already there, then every 6 months have another blood test and again only top up what is needed. this then happens every 6 months (some wait every 12 months). this stops an over load of some of the antibodys which can be harmful if this gets to high. Its no cheaper then having haveing the yearly busters infact it costs more but is a safer alternative and your dog is always protected but without the risk overloading.

heres a couple of links to read and there are plenty more available.

http://www.dogs4dogs.com/blog/2008/10/22/titer-test/

http://www.caberfeidh.com/CanineTiters.htm


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## nichol4s (Jun 16, 2012)

Oh dear, another thread gone to the dogs........


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

-Kev- said:


> yawn....
> 
> lets stop the bickering please..


i dont see it that way Kev are people not allowed there own opinions? its just like being at the pub and few guys talking, a topic comes up and people have a discussion/debate and veiw there own opinions are is that not normal now a days?. thats how i view it


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

S63 said:


> Why, you of course, judging by the way this thread is heading I'd guess you'll be consistent in getting it closed.


dont know whether to laugh or be honored, seems im your new Mark Smith.Are your still p*ssed about me spoiling your and you follow bully's fun harassing Mark. You can have as many diggs at me as you want, just remember i still have them pm,s you sent me about Mark, so its up to you what happens next.
i hate bullys so wont waste any more time on you 

now back on topic


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

don't recall saying people could'nt voice their opinions, if we did'nt allow that then this thread would'nt be nearly 10 pages long, for starters. its when the opinions turn into bickering, which this thread has done a few times now..


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

cheekymonkey said:


> dont know whether to laugh or be honored, seems im your new Mark Smith.Are your still p*ssed about me spoiling your and you follow bully's fun harassing Mark. You can have as many diggs at me as you want, just remember i still have them pm,s you sent me about Mark, so its up to you what happens next.
> i hate bullys so wont waste any more time on you
> 
> now back on topic


and this is my point, if you want to discuss something offtopic with S63, we do have a PM facilaty (sp)


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

cheekymonkey said:


> :thumb: It does seem some people need others to find the evidence for them, or maybe they just use this excuse to cover there own ignorance. theres plenty of evidence of this on the internet and its not hard to find, if they can be bothered


Ok I've googled and found nothing so far that links detailing products to animal testing, I've discovered 3m do but which of their thousands of products it doesn't say.

I'm ignorant, you're something of an expert on this subject with dozens of posts in this thread, show me some conclusive evidence that might change my awareness and point me in the direction of more user friendly products that aren't tested on animals.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

S63 said:


> Ok I've googled and found nothing so far that links detailing products to animal testing, I've discovered 3m do but which of their thousands of products it doesn't say.
> 
> I'm ignorant, you're something of an expert on this subject with dozens of posts in this thread, show me some conclusive evidence that might change my awareness and point me in the direction of more user friendly products that aren't tested on animals.


go back to post 4 K9vnd gave you the answer there and how to find it. just use a bit of common seance, meguiars dont go out and buy a dog and test there product on it, Its the raw material of products that get tested on the animals.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

I'm assuming you mean this post:


"Hay bud am not a c*ck in a*se kind of bloke so am not that type of person, unless it's been posted in club 18 or the sport newspaper chances are ive probably not read it or looked into it.
The evidence factor for these sort of thing's would be finding the key ingredient's of the product's and possibly looking into the manufacturer's msd report's which am sure many have or believed to have asked for, I have seen the msd for the meg's hyper detailer however and it's there in black in white."


That seriously is your answer? 

Haven't a clue what the first sentence is all about. 
As for finding the "key ingredients of a product" I'm not a scientist and haven't a clue.

The last bit all sounds too familiar.... "I have seen" etc etc. "it's all there in black and white"

His debating of a subject is not unlike your style, lots of hearsay and nothing of substance.

By the way at no point have I shown disrespect, insinuating I'm ignorant and lacking in common sense really doesn't assist your debating skills.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

S63 said:


> I'm assuming you mean this post:
> 
> "Hay bud am not a c*ck in a*se kind of bloke so am not that type of person, unless it's been posted in club 18 or the sport newspaper chances are ive probably not read it or looked into it.
> The evidence factor for these sort of thing's would be finding the key ingredient's of the product's and possibly looking into the manufacturer's msd report's which am sure many have or believed to have asked for, I have seen the msd for the meg's hyper detailer however and it's there in black in white."
> ...


look your not even intrested in the subject just trying to intimadate me with you bull*hit, as i said im not Mark i treat all bullys the same if you got a problem with me lets meet and sort it out, but like your sidekick you'll decline because thats what bullys do. so f**k o*f not intrested in you bullys are the scum of the world imo .


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

And that gents is how you get a thread locked.


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