# Hologramming - Pictures inside



## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

Right, I detailed my GF car with a DA, Megs 205 of a CG black finishing pad.

2 ft by ft sets, around 3-5 minutes each set with medium pressure and slow hand movements and backing of for the last couple passes, really taking my time and effort to get a very nice finish. After doing half the car i done a IPA whip down around 3-1 then applied Autobrite - to seal and protect and buffed off.

Went out with my sun gun to make sure there was no hologramming and the whole side of the car was messed up with what i think is hologramming, but i really dont know how a DA with such a light combo and doing every thing with care abd taking my time on each set has caused this :S. So i Done half to car again today just to make sure that i i done everything propley and didnt make no difference what so ever, ive tried so much IPA whip down + Quick detailer whip down but not removing them, could it be the wax?

When i machine polished today, what that of removed the wax? or do i need to remove it? What could surely cause this has they are quite serious and really not sure what i am doing wrong :S. When i was doing the car today i seemed to be correction them under certain lights ( sun gun , LED and day light )

Here are pictures

This is tonight under my camera flash










However this is today in day light under my camera flash :S ( same panel )










When i was looking tonight under the sungun it looked very bad!

Hope you can help

Thanks


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## Herefordquattro (May 31, 2010)

are you sure it isn't wax holograming i.e. wax not quite buffed enough (or it's regassed a bit) I've had it before after it looking perfect under the light but next day in bright sunlight (which is much brighter than any sungun) showing up the wax oils.

light spritz with a quickdetailer and buff it off:thumb:


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

Tbh if you have a look at the two pictures, same panel, one durning the day showing a perfectly hologram finish, then one tonight ( temputure quite low ) and the whole side of the car i full of holograms.

Today i took a picture of a 2 ft by 2 foot before i polished it and there was holograms, then took a picture after polishing it + IPA whip down and it was hologram free! and now later tonight there all over the car :S


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

I went out and gave the car a spray with QD and seemed to make it a tiny better but its hard to tell, im just very confused and would like to some help on what to do or what it could possible be?

Would wax need remove to see if this could be it? 

If so, if i use Detox shampoo then clay bar the car again will this remove the wax i applied


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## BigYal (Aug 5, 2011)

It wouldnt hurt to remove the wax and start again, try eliminate possible causes step by step. Could it possibly be soft or poor laquer? I once seen a shogun do this, it had had a respray and paintwork was terrible, holograms everywhere. Compounded, polished and waxed, same problem. Everytime the surface was wiped with quite a soft microfibre it left what appeared to be holograms, i can assure you it wasnt any form of residue.


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## suhailvirmani (May 22, 2011)

How bad was the paintwork to begin with, i tend to use megs 105 first then follow it with 205 leaving an amazing finish, hologram free and removing oxidisation. One other thing might be the pads, ive stuck to using megs own soft buff pads find them really easy to use. Just a possibility tho.


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

more than likely polish / wax imo


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## Herefordquattro (May 31, 2010)

if you say it was quite late and cold could it be condensation / dew forming on the car and refracting the light? I personaly wouldn't clay again but only because i had a nasty experience with the clay being cold and marring the entire car i had to give it a light da all over much to my wife's delight!


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

Theres no point using megs 105! the paint is so soft, i nearly got 100% correction with megs 205 and a finishing pad, so no need for meg 105.

Its really confusing because durning the day while i was correcting it seemed to remove them, then when i go out at night there all there! as you can see from the pictures they are removed durning correction but back at night!

How do i strip wax then?


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

The paint to begin with was with swirld and some deep scratches,

If people are saying its the wax, surely that i DA polished over the WAX with Megs 205 they would of removed it?? coz i done one side of the car again and holograms still there..


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

Bump for anyone that could possible help.

Thanks


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## Strothow (Oct 29, 2009)

Wipe over with a MF, do they change direction? If so highly likely its oil hologramming, i'm plagued by the damned things :devil:


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

Well i seem to get more, then i whip harder and then theres less, but they DO not go, and theres millions of them haha!

Would i need to strip wax to remove the oils?

Thanks


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## DetailMyCar (Apr 19, 2010)

lukeneale said:


> Well i seem to get more, then i whip harder and then theres less, but they DO not go, and theres millions of them haha!
> 
> Would i need to strip wax to remove the oils?
> 
> Thanks


It's WIPE not Whip :wave:

Anyway, it doesn't seem like polishing holograms to me, more likely wax or oils from the polish - not the type of holograms you get from buffer trails or anything......

Have you tried quick detailer and a plush MF cloth and given it a couple of wipes? I can't help thinking it must be the wax but don't go and strip it off just to check if it's holgramming....

Personally I'd leave it a week or two as it sounds like it's driving you to distraction, see how it copes and then give it a wash next week / week after and see how it looks then...

Don't just keep stripping wax and re-polishing it :lol:


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

Haha

TBH is annoying me because i really took my time and made sure i didnt do anything to casue bad hologramming, i wouldnt of mind if it was 1 - 2 light hologramming but on the whole side of the car isnt right, thats why its botherd me so much!

Ok i'll leave it a week and check again, if they are still there i'll give it a wash and check later that night, if they are still there should i procede with stripping the wax to see if this is it?

Thanks ao much for your help people


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## Strothow (Oct 29, 2009)

Sounds like the wax to me....

Get a plush MF + some QD and go over the car, this should help. 

I have the same problem, god knows why :devil:


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

I did do that last night, seemed to help a little bit but was very hard to tell, i'll leave it a week or so and see what happens, just very confusin haha


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## Strothow (Oct 29, 2009)

Yeah, i'd be pretty sure its oil hollograms. I'm swaying towards going for a nano sealant now.


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

I keep thinking its oil holograms due to how much care + time i took to detail just two panels of a little yaris lol!

i'll see if its oil and report, then if it is i'll strip wax and apply a different wax

Thanks


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Which MF's are you using? I'd say crap MF's or wax


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## Herefordquattro (May 31, 2010)

Like i said in my first reply then, very frustrating but after a wash or 2 the oils should hopefully be banished to give you the slick finish you've worked hard for:thumb:


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

Buffing towels, fully cleaned and i made sure i looked at the towel before any wipe to make sure there wasnt any grit i could see


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## Strothow (Oct 29, 2009)

RussZS said:


> Which MF's are you using? I'd say crap MF's or wax


Russ has a good point, i find the polished bliss towels very good for oily products, still get the problem sometimes though!


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

tbh i tried all different towels, they were all fully cleaned, so i doubt it was these causing holograms!


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## Strothow (Oct 29, 2009)

lukeneale said:


> tbh i tried all different towels, they were all fully cleaned, so i doubt it was these causing holograms!


Its not that they cause the hollograms, its that they don't remove oilly products well, i have some plush eurow towels and they are absolutly useless at removing oily products.

If you have any of the polished bliss towels, AG HD wax cloth or Bilt Hamber towels, that is what i would use in the future.


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

Thanks for all your help mate,

I will report back in a week or so to tell u how it went.

Thanks


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## Keefe (Jun 30, 2008)

It's possibly the results of micro-marring. When paint is soft, the pads must be clean every alternate re-application of M205. Otherwise, the residue on the pad will cause micro-marring.


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

i cleaned i would say every 2 - 3 sets, so i done bout half a panel, then cleaned, then anothjer half, then cleaned, i cant see how it would of marred it this bad? 

How do you clean them, i run them under warm water, use a tool i got with my DA to make sure all polish is out and dry.


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## Strothow (Oct 29, 2009)

I doubt it that is you say it makes a difference and moves direction when you wipe it.


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

Yeah and sometimes i'll wipe and get loads more, then wipe again and theres less, but still there, going to give the car a wash now!

Thanks


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

Update - gave the car a full wash then used Britemax grimeout and used it 2-1 to strip wax ( defo striped it ) And the holograms where still there so they are not oils/wax.

I decided to give it another go and got a tap measure out to make sure i was working in correct sizes and found out that before i was working in such tiny spaces ( maybe this caused hologramming? )

So i decided to try M205 again on a finishing pad in the correct size space, what i achieved were better results but still holograms, but an improvement for sure!

How much should i be working a polish for? Because i timed my self and it was around 6-7 minutes on one set, first 5 minutes moderate pressure, last 2 minutes light pressure ( All slow hand movements )

Does this sound about right?

Thanks


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

Could it possible be that i need an less agressive polish/pre wax cleanser to remove these?

As i really gave M205 a good working + refined it..


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## Strothow (Oct 29, 2009)

Have you wiped over with IPA?


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## Herefordquattro (May 31, 2010)

micromarring due to soft paint and it not finishing down well??


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

Yes i always wipe with IPA to give true results.

Cant work out whats going on here because i really worked megs 205 in and refined for 3 passes, maybe the paint is really soft? maybe it needs something less agressive?

I used megs 83 speed glaze and that made it better but not that great, but thats a hard polish to master. I done a test area with Megs 205 and worked it in for aorund 2 minutes and it left heavy holograms, so thats how they were caused, thats why i really worked it in, still not 100% though!!


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

Could be, how do i finish it down well?


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## Strothow (Oct 29, 2009)

Your not causing them by washing by any chance are you?


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Where are you based?


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

doubt its caused by washing, i take care in the 2BM ect,

Southwest london,

Im going to give a pre wax cleanser a try, - Valet PRO Achilles Prep on a finishing pad and see how that comes up.

How can you tell when a product is fully broken down? when it clears, dusts? or do i just work an area for a long enough time? say 5-7 minutes?

Thanks


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## Herefordquattro (May 31, 2010)

correct me if i'm wrong as only used menz polishes but done a quick search (http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=221900)
and 205 does not fully break down but instead requires lighter pressure to finish the set off or it will induce it's own marring!
did a 3 stage correction on mine with menz so i couldn't go wrong as each lighter polish/pad removed any marring from previous stage.

Your GF's car is a yaris yes? (Jap cars are notorious for soft paint as germans are for hard!?) so i think your pre wax clenser would be perfect for a final finish stage to remove these hologramms.:buffer:

hope that helps but as i said not used 205 myself:wave: and if anyone else wants to repeat what i've said then feel free as my posts are being ignored


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

Sounds like both the wax and polishing are causing problems. I don't think the holograms wouldn't change direction if they were caused by the polish after it had been waxed. The change in direction suggests the wax is an issue. But, if you've stripped it and the holograms are still there then the polish is an issue too. 

I've never used Megs polishes but you will need a very fine polish on soft paint to avoid marring. I used 3M Ultrafina on a GTR on Tuesday and it finished really well. 

Work your finishing polish until you can't see it any more (it will go completely clear) and finish off slowly and with hardly any pressure. Buff it off carefully with a soft MF. When you come to waxing do it gently - you could be marring soft paint while applying it - and apply it VERY thinly. Leave it for however long the instructions tell you to before buffing off with several soft MFs. Keep turning to clean sides so you make sure you remove all the residue. 

That should sort your problem out. Probably


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

Thanks alot superspec, i think i need a very fine polishh, something maybe with 1/10 or 2/10 cut.

I'll give it ago and see what happens. I looked again last night and there is still hologram, but is alot better than the other night, so working the polish longer did help but still left marring, so a finer polish is needed.

When u say finishing of slowly, do you mean with speed of the machine?

So finishing down, i do a couple passes on speed 5 with light pressure, then slow down the machine with light pressure aswell? ( with slow hand movements )

Thanks

i'll update soon.


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## lukeneale (May 14, 2011)

Update - I tried Valet PRO Achilles Prep today on a finishing pad and found it very hard to work with, just wanted to dry out very quickly, Also i think it was quite filler heavy as when i done a IPA wipe down they were back and there was more :S, done my normal DA machine polishing - 4.5 - 5 speed, medium pressure until nearly dry and followed with 2 - 3 passed with light pressure!

Starting to really bug me now and nothing is working and stuff is making it worse! haha!

Maybe need to purchase a new finishing pad + pre wax cleanser? Any ideas?

Thanks


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## Keefe (Jun 30, 2008)

lukeneale said:


> i cleaned i would say every 2 - 3 sets, so i done bout half a panel, then cleaned, then anothjer half, then cleaned, i cant see how it would of marred it this bad?
> 
> How do you clean them, i run them under warm water, use a tool i got with my DA to make sure all polish is out and dry.


If you are using a soft pad, say anything from polishing pad to softer, running the machine and pressing the pad with an old toothbrush will clean it quite nicely. It's doesn't remove caked in residue though. But any tool that does that on a soft pad will damage the pad anyway.

Reducing pressure on the machine will help.

Try to use a 5.5" pad. It works better on softer paints too.


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## Cops (Jun 22, 2010)

I have had the very same problem on my black audi, after research I decided it was down to needing a fine finishing polish after correction. I used Menz super finish (4000 i think) and it even cured the holograms (or hid them) if i applied it by hand (it was too late to get the rotary out and the neighbours think im nutty anyway). Like you I spent ages taking extra care and seemed to get a worse result than when I have flashed over the job, really annoying.


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## Gazjs (Nov 26, 2009)

Did any solution come of this?


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Try speed 1 NO HIGHER
Sounds silly but for jewelling the slower you go the better it is NO pressure to the point you may need to lift machine slightly.
Speed and pressure.... One little piece of grit one slightly damaged pad one bit of mixed product. there is the result


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## cypukas (Aug 24, 2012)

very interesting..


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

cypukas said:


> very interesting..


What is????


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## Gazjs (Nov 26, 2009)

AllenF said:


> Try speed 1 NO HIGHER
> Sounds silly but for jewelling the slower you go the better it is NO pressure to the point you may need to lift machine slightly.
> Speed and pressure.... One little piece of grit one slightly damaged pad one bit of mixed product. there is the result


Speed one with a finishing pad and finishing polish? Work until clear?


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Gazjs said:


> Speed one with a finishing pad and finishing polish? Work until clear?


Yup thats the idea


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## JoeB (Jan 25, 2013)

I had exactly this on my qashqai so maybe similar soft paint? sought some advice from a mate and he advised least abrasive polish, least abrasive pad and slowest speed, worked REALLY slowly with no pressure. (Think someone on this thread already suggested it). 

Seems to have done the trick for me.


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