# Tip for polish removal



## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Hi folks, hope everyone is well.

Picked up and sharing a really useful tip courtesy of Matt @ Obsidian Detailing who is growing a really good YouTube channel (worth checking out).

Oily compounds are a joy to use - can be worked forever with little to no dust but can be a pain to remove cleanly and without inducing marring to sensitive finishes. I've tried a range of medium to heavy compounds and never found one with a CarPro Essence type wipeoff which is a joy.

Matt's process to use an ONR saturated microfibre towel to saturate the polish residue immediately after a polishing set, then to effortlessly wipe down with a clean dry towel. Not only does this give a squeaky clean panel but the wipe off is effortless and the rinseless wash solution provides great lubrication on those soft or sensitive finishes. Compound fully removed Matt was then following up with the typical pre-coating panel wipe step to remove the polymers left behind by ONR.

I've recently tried this with Feynlab Pure Rinseless which is a (very) powerful rinseless wash designed to maintain coated cars and as a panel wipe leaving nothing behind. In his latest video Matt has used the same combo to good effect.

I've been testing the concept for a few weeks and it really does what I was hoping it would - it won't be for anyone and to many an unnecessary step and cost. As someone who did a two stage UPOL/Spies panel wipe anyhow, this is far more cost and time efficient. The paint is left so clean that you could probably even skip the panel wipe stage. I'm still erring on the safe side but I've been able to swap these bodyshop grade products out for alcohol based products that gas quicker and are less prone to cause coating failures.

I have so much respect for the skill of many top top professionals in this industry and Matt is no exception.. to share content / tips / tricks with 'strangers' on YouTube is greatly appreciated as I can only imagine the time and effort that goes into editing/setting up equipment.

https://www.youtube.com/user/ObsidianDetailing/videos


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## vsideboy (Sep 1, 2006)

Yeah, he's improved his video technique recently for the better, they 're a good watch.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Nice to se you back posting on DW Adam! :thumb:

Alan W


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## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

Been doing this for a while with Wolf’s “Mean Green” its a great technique


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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

Watching Matt's lastest video now. He's a natural in front of the camera. Subscribed.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Uncanny, but this has been something I’ve been doing as a result of my experiments with rinseless washes. I can’t believe it has taken me so long to use these as they are fully meant to be, being receptive to new and better ways of doing things, researching, practicing and trying things for myself and I’ve come to this same conclusion.

Using any type of rinseless wash to help with the polish wipe off is a great idea. They add so much lubrication and leave little to nothing behind. As some will know, I’m quite a fan of Feynlab products and Pure Rinseless is superb. As Adam says, it is very potent as a cleaner, very lubricated and Feynlab recommend that it can and should be used as a panel wipe prior to coating with their coatings. I would be confident that it would be fine to be a panel wipe for all coatings, though I haven’t tested that but am looking to.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

roscopervis said:


> Uncanny, but this has been something I've been doing as a result of my experiments with rinseless washes. I can't believe it has taken me so long to use these as they are fully meant to be, being receptive to new and better ways of doing things, researching, practicing and trying things for myself and I've come to this same conclusion.
> 
> Using any type of rinseless wash to help with the polish wipe off is a great idea. They add so much lubrication and leave little to nothing behind. As some will know, I'm quite a fan of Feynlab products and Pure Rinseless is superb. As Adam says, it is very potent as a cleaner, very lubricated and Feynlab recommend that it can and should be used as a panel wipe prior to coating with their coatings. I would be confident that it would be fine to be a panel wipe for all coatings, though I haven't tested that but am looking to.


It can be an expensive journey but sometimes it's worth it just to find a gem of a product or technique. This works really really well for me and I'm completely sold on it.

PR has some really clever party tricks, it'll not bead up on even the most hydrophobic surface, just don't use it on your run of the mill wax or sealant as it'll eat them for breakfast. Fresh-ish coat of IGL Premier knocked back to slow sheeting when removing a bird sh*te. No panel wipe I know would have that effect, so I can only imagine its a bloody good one.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

roscopervis said:


> Uncanny, but this has been something I've been doing as a result of my experiments with rinseless washes. I can't believe it has taken me so long to use these as they are fully meant to be, being receptive to new and better ways of doing things, researching, practicing and trying things for myself and I've come to this same conclusion.
> 
> Using any type of rinseless wash to help with the polish wipe off is a great idea. They add so much lubrication and leave little to nothing behind. As some will know, I'm quite a fan of Feynlab products and Pure Rinseless is superb. As Adam says, it is very potent as a cleaner, very lubricated and Feynlab recommend that it can and should be used as a panel wipe prior to coating with their coatings. I would be confident that it would be fine to be a panel wipe for all coatings, though I haven't tested that but am looking to.


I agree using a towel soaked in a rinseless wash for removing polish sounds like an excellent idea, one of the best tips i read in recent memory. I will try it with mckee's N914 next week. Not so strong as Feynlab i read but no slouch.

It might just be the key to making 3D one the clear winner for my paint, for a 1-step. Of everything i've tried.


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## macmaw (Mar 5, 2007)

Interesting to see the views on Fenylab PR. I will have to look into this as it could be the answer I’m looking for in terms of a pure rinse-less wash with good lubricity, seeing as it looks like McKee’s won’t be available here in the UK. 
Also sounds great for the polish removal, will give the video a look &#55357;&#56397;


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

I wish I had access to that brand, would be great. I do have ONR but it does leave behind residue (tested it with products and it they did prematurely fail with ONR under them). Have you found any regular level panel wipes that cannot remove ONR residue?


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

macmaw said:


> Interesting to see the views on Fenylab PR. I will have to look into this as it could be the answer I'm looking for in terms of a pure rinse-less wash with good lubricity, seeing as it looks like McKee's won't be available here in the UK.
> Also sounds great for the polish removal, will give the video a look ������


For the bird sh*te removal on IGL premier (a 6 month sealant) PR was used way below the recommended concentration as a waterless wash (380:1 roughly). I've come to the conclusion that it just can't be used on anything but a chemical resistant coating. Even then I'd be erring on the side of caution!! Few fellas on a US forum have had no issues using to maintain CQUK long term.

Don't see myself converting my actual wash routine to rinseless, but as pointed out its a lot safer than dry wiping a panel with spent polish and clearcoat on it.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

Sheep said:


> I wish I had access to that brand, would be great. I do have ONR but it does leave behind residue (tested it with products and it they did prematurely fail with ONR under them). Have you found any regular level panel wipes that cannot remove ONR residue?


You do feynlab canada. I might pick up the panel prep sometime. It echo's what Adam and a few others were talking about in the gyeon thread. It's marketed to be stronger then the IPA based preps.

They are partnered with 3D car care canada in some way. That's how i found the site. There's a feynlab banner on the 3D canada site. I was looking at there lite coating for a while.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Sheep said:


> I wish I had access to that brand, would be great. I do have ONR but it does leave behind residue (tested it with products and it they did prematurely fail with ONR under them). Have you found any regular level panel wipes that cannot remove ONR residue?


Based on feel of the panel alone, the few panel wipes I've used have been enough to kill the slick feeling. There is no way to truly know if they're gone as ONR doesn't leave a hydrophobic surface or anything.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

macmaw said:


> Interesting to see the views on Fenylab PR. I will have to look into this as it could be the answer I'm looking for in terms of a pure rinse-less wash with good lubricity, seeing as it looks like McKee's won't be available here in the UK.
> Also sounds great for the polish removal, will give the video a look ��


It's great, but anything less than a coating and it will pull all the oils/waxes/polymers out of the surface and in doing so, most of the protection.

I'm also enjoying using Griots Brilliant Finish Rinseless Wash. It's nowhere near as harmful to protection products as Feynlab PR, in fact, it's totally harmless as far as I can tell, but it has a decent amount of cleaning ability and I think it doesn't leave anything behind. I say this by the way it cleans glass absolutely squeaky clean like a good panel wipe would.

It's a very easy to use product that seems to work well in every circumstance, including as an aid to polish removal.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

noorth said:


> You do feynlab canada. I might pick up the panel prep sometime. It echo's what Adam and a few others were talking about in the gyeon thread. It's marketed to be stronger then the IPA based preps.
> 
> They are partnered with 3D car care canada in some way. That's how i found the site. There's a feynlab banner on the 3D canada site. I was looking at there lite coating for a while.


Good to know! I'll look into pricing and concentration and see if it's worth it over ONR and panel wipe.


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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

Sheep said:


> Good to know! I'll look into pricing and concentration and see if it's worth it over ONR and panel wipe.


The prices are on the higher end it seems. The primer polish must be some kind of voodoo magic. 

Sharp packaging. Love the measurement type containers. I used to always use star san its called when i made homebrew that had the same kind of container. Works great.

End of hijack.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

noorth said:


> The prices are on the higher end it seems. The primer polish must be some kind of voodoo magic.
> 
> Sharp packaging. Love the measurement type containers. I used to always use star san its called when i made homebrew that had the same kind of container. Works great.
> 
> End of hijack.


I bought 8 of those measurement containers a few months back for measuring and decanting various shampoos and chemicals into buckets. Don't work with anything viscose but great for everything else.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## macmaw (Mar 5, 2007)

atbalfour said:


> Don't see myself converting my actual wash routine to rinseless, but as pointed out its a lot safer than dry wiping a panel with spent polish and clearcoat on it.
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


Me neither, not every wash anyway, but have used ONR a couple of times and can see the benefits of having the option. 
My car is coated so am looking for a good pure rinse-less wash for occasional use, this could be it. 
Also looks just the ticket for wiping when polishing :thumb:
I watched the latest video on your link and Matt used PR for the wiping there.


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## macmaw (Mar 5, 2007)

roscopervis said:


> It's great, but anything less than a coating and it will pull all the oils/waxes/polymers out of the surface and in doing so, most of the protection.
> 
> I'm also enjoying using Griots Brilliant Finish Rinseless Wash. It's nowhere near as harmful to protection products as Feynlab PR, in fact, it's totally harmless as far as I can tell, but it has a decent amount of cleaning ability and I think it doesn't leave anything behind. I say this by the way it cleans glass absolutely squeaky clean like a good panel wipe would.
> 
> It's a very easy to use product that seems to work well in every circumstance, including as an aid to polish removal.


Yep, my car is coated so it looks good for me - just for occasional use when it suits, and the Pure Wash also looks good for a "reset" wash now and then too.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

I can confirm the same with regards to feynlab pure rinseless, the cleaning power is staggering. Less effective on glass and piano blacks though, so will be running both fpr and onr from here on out. The polish seems to almost congeal as you wet it. Very impressed
The measuring bottle is trash though :lol:



noorth said:


> Watching Matt's lastest video now. He's a natural in front of the camera. Subscribed.


I have the number for a good optician and psychologist, let me know which it is you need :lol:
But thank you I do appreciate it I'm trying hard


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## Itstony (Jan 19, 2018)

Good thread Adam, not seen much of you, just one acerbic reply short while back, cracked me right up. :lol:
Had been absent myself and gradually getting back to normal, if there is such a thing as normal anymore.

No lover of adding "I use" (winds me right up) unless I have trialled several products to compare first. However, I did manage to get hold of M&K Pure last year and simply blown away with it's cleaning ability. It does leave something behind which is extremely minimal and just about insignificant, so a panel wipe makes sure it's in good shape.
Not sure of your previous routine and wondering if you had used Pure. 
My favourite for years was Swissol M cleaner, but so oily and them taking the P prices so stopped. 
Now I'm digressing! :thumb:


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

atbalfour said:


> I bought 8 of those measurement containers a few months back for measuring and decanting various shampoos and chemicals into buckets. Don't work with anything viscose but great for everything else.
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


I've found dollar store measuring containers for baking do the trick. Have 1 250ml cup and one 1 ounce cup.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Sheep said:


> I've found dollar store measuring containers for baking do the trick. Have 1 250ml cup and one 1 ounce cup.


That's essentially what I use - baking cups from Home Bargains. They say the measurements in oz and mls.

I know what you mean Tony, most people's recommendations will be of the ONE product they've used and they feel they have some loyalty to and of course, those recommendations will be essentially noise.

If I make a product recommendation its only after I've tried a variety of different ones and usually made the "mistakes" you're not meant to make with them to know the product(s) and then to know what issues people might have and why people may think it's pants.

There's a core of people who you know their view will be worth listening to and I think we all know who they are.


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## JU5T1N (Dec 7, 2019)

I thought the latest O.N.R myth was it couldn't remove traffic film and oils from the surface?. Now its a panel wipe.

Rinseless washes actually remove grease/oils very well, they can contain ethoxylated Alcohols, Petroleum Distillates, and Propylene Glycol Butyl Ether is a common ingredient that's a good degreaser, I guess they contain mostly alcohols and solvents because they will wipe off cleanly and don't need rinsing off. 
If it's stripping off lsps I suspect the fenylab rinseless has a higher concentration or more potent solvents than other rinseless washes.

I think the problem with using a rinseless wash as a panel wipe is they contain oils normally silicone oils for the lubrication and its these oils that are normally left behind on the surface.

I imagine the reason why panel wipes don't contain lubricating oils like rinseless washes is because they don't wipe off cleanly.


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## NorthantsPete (May 18, 2016)

i just used some car soap in a bucket ready, wash prior, rinse, polish, then wash after, rinse and dry, comes off lovely, no drama.

im doing a panel at a time though, once finished the whole car will need a wash in one go to be the same level.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

JU5T1N said:


> I thought the latest O.N.R myth was it couldn't remove traffic film and oils from the surface?. Now its a panel wipe.
> 
> Rinseless washes actually remove grease/oils very well, they can contain ethoxylated Alcohols, Petroleum Distillates, and Propylene Glycol Butyl Ether is a common ingredient that's a good degreaser, I guess they contain mostly alcohols and solvents because they will wipe off cleanly and don't need rinsing off.
> If it's stripping off lsps I suspect the fenylab rinseless has a higher concentration or more potent solvents than other rinseless washes.
> ...


Do some research into Feynlab PR, even better buy some when HDD get it back in stock. The cleaning power is not even remotely comparable to ONR. My guess is that this thing will obliterate traffic film and as mentioned most non ceramic LSPs. The surface feels and looks squeaky clean after use as per Feynlabs claim. Used it again today, what a product.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

NorthantsPete said:


> i just used some car soap in a bucket ready, wash prior, rinse, polish, then wash after, rinse and dry, comes off lovely, no drama.
> 
> im doing a panel at a time though, once finished the whole car will need a wash in one go to be the same level.


Similar principle I guess, what I wouldn't be a fan of is having to rinse panel by panel. You'd inevitably get drips etc. Would slow me down way too much and not appropriate for use in a garage either.

With a wet microfibre and rinseless solution you're not having to rinse. It also has significantly more bite than any shampoo I've used and leaves nothing behind, unlike most shampoos.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## JU5T1N (Dec 7, 2019)

atbalfour said:


> Do some research into Feynlab PR, even better buy some when HDD get it back in stock. The cleaning power is not even remotely comparable to ONR. My guess is that this thing will obliterate traffic film and as mentioned most non ceramic LSPs. The surface feels and looks squeaky clean after use as per Feynlabs claim. Used it again today, what a product.
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


I wouldn't want to clean my car every week with a product that strong while i'm sure it has its uses like deep cleaning and stripping old toppers from coated cars, I think regular O.N.R still has its place for regular washing.
while it might be a strong product I doubt its quite as good as a standard solvent based panel wipe feynlab themselves still make a proper panel wipe.


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## The Rover (May 4, 2012)

Thanks for this top tip.
Removing polish residue is the worst part of my job, after buffing it off it looks good until you put a bit of extra light on it & then you see bits of residue remaining.
I tried using ONR yesterday & what a difference!, no residue at all & then just an easy wipe down with panel wipe before applying a coating, happy days, this is going to save me so much time.
I've ordered the Feynlam Rinseless, so looking forward to using that as a combined residue remover & panel wipe.
Thanks again.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

*How to remove polish on soft sensitive paints without marring*

Great video from Matt of Obsidian Detailing now posted on his YouTube channel:


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Great summary video Matt, regardless of whether working on hard, medium or soft clear this is the best way to receive optimum results. Poor practice in removing spent clearcoat and polish residue from the panel will just spoil the finish (this displays as marring on soft paint, but it will reduce the end finish of medium and hard clear too, just not quite as noticeable).

Matt focused more on efficiencies, but another great benefit I've found is that because the surface is effectively degreased you can get away with a lighter duty ipa based final panel wipe (Eraser, Prep which ordinarily struggle to remove oilier polishes) , rather than using something like Gtechniq PW which, though effective, is extremely harsh on paint, trims etc. and further softens paint that is already marr prone. 

As mentioned in the OP, I'm a complete convert to this method now (with Feynlab PR).. . Have a look at the Rag company pluffle towels for the final wipe. I've been playing around with towels and because of their microfibre waffle weave mix these are on a different level for absorbing liquids, like rinseless wash. They're not too plush, meaning there is 0 drag and the experience is far improved over the 350 GSM cloths which I agree are perfect for having in the bucket for the wet wipe.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

atbalfour said:


> Matt focused more on efficiencies, but another great benefit I've found is that because the surface is effectively degreased you can get away with a lighter duty ipa based final panel wipe (Eraser, Prep which ordinarily struggle to remove oilier polishes) , rather than using something like Gtechniq PW which, though effective, is extremely harsh on paint, trims etc. and further softens paint that is already marr prone.


I'm with you Adam and have also found that Gtechniq PW is one of the most aggressive panel wipes I have ever used and can be detrimental to softer paints and plastics.

Alan W


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Alan W said:


> I'm with you Adam and have also found that Gtechniq PW is one of the most aggressive panel wipes I have ever used and can be detrimental to softer paints and plastics.
> 
> Alan W


I hate this panel wipe. Am on record long since saying exactly the same. It can make you go backwards real quick


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

atbalfour said:


> Great summary video Matt, regardless of whether working on hard, medium or soft clear this is the best way to receive optimum results. Poor practice in removing spent clearcoat and polish residue from the panel will just spoil the finish (this displays as marring on soft paint, but it will reduce the end finish of medium and hard clear too, just not quite as noticeable).
> 
> Matt focused more on efficiencies, but another great benefit I've found is that because the surface is effectively degreased you can get away with a lighter duty ipa based final panel wipe (Eraser, Prep which ordinarily struggle to remove oilier polishes) , rather than using something like Gtechniq PW which, though effective, is extremely harsh on paint, trims etc. and further softens paint that is already marr prone.
> 
> ...


I have pluffle towels coming


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

stangalang said:


> I have pluffle towels coming


I don't think you'll be disappointed.. I have 4 now.

1 in the rare occasion I use drying aids (it is designed for this sort of thing) 
1 for drying /applying QDs to door shuts (again mops up water so well)
2 new ones for final wipe on the panel having used Pure Rinseless.

Hope you like them as much as I do - think user Coatings on here is a big fan of them too and put the thought in my head initially.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Another gem from Matt aka @stangalang - worth a watch.


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