# Lets talk lenses



## spitfire

I'm sure newbies like me get fairly confused with all the lenses on offer. Take Nikon for instance, on Camerapricebusters, they offer around 60 lenses with vastly differing prices and a fair overlap in focal length. My D60 has no internal motor and from what I gather, needs AF-S lenses for full compatability so this narrows down choice a bit, but still there's many lenses. 
Now I've read many posts on DW about this and that lens being great. Jeez, how do you ever get to know this? And lets not take about cost. There seems no rhyme nor reason to the price put on a lens, from around £90 to around £7000 and that's only in the Nikon range. How do you guys choose lenses with all the variations at play. 

I can't see me ever getting the hang of this aspect of photography.

Let's have your thoughts on the subject:thumb:


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## robj20

What exactly confuses you. First i choose my lens by use, so start with the focal length you want. Then do i want a fast lens, do i want image stabalisation. Then you have the quality of the lens, read reviews for that.


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## buckas

first i choose glass quality, so choose L series 

then choose what i want 70-200mm for rally pics, f/2.8L IS USM due to rallies tend to be in dark forests so helps, not to mention it's fast

then smaller lens for landscapes/close up rally shots on hairpins etc - choose something which will cover 70mm and below.....so it picked 24-70mm f/2.8L USM 

next i'll probably get a 1.4x II extender for the 70-200, to shoot wildlife/birds etc

would love to have a super wide angle and a big zoom (500mm) but money goes mental!

hth

drew


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## IGADIZ

The way I choose my lenses depends on what I am planning to take pictures of with it.

For nature and sports I will advise a fast f/4- (or if your budget allows f/2.8) telephoto lens in the 300mm 600mm range. Of course, you can use these lenses for other photography. I have used my 500mm successfully for landscape... it depends what effect you want in your image.

For portraiture I recommend a fast f/1.2 -f/2.8 or f/4 medium range prime like 80-135mm (again go for the best you can afford).

For architecture a good tilt and shift wide angle works best. Warning T&S lenses are incredibly expensive ands specialised pieces of kit only buy if you are likely to take a lot of shots of buildings and interiors. For instance, take a look at this one.

For landscape a wide 17-24mm is best you don't have to go for the top of the range here as you will be using slow apertures (f/11 to f/22) for landscape.

for general photography go for a couple of fast zooms. I have a 24-105mm and a 70-200mm In my bag at all times.

If you are into macro, a dedicated macro lens and ring flash is the way to go.

When it comes to Photographic equipment, I am a firm believer in the old "you get what you pay for" . The good thing with glass, is that it keeps its value really good, So go for the best lens you can afford
Hope that helps.


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## spitfire

robj20 said:


> *What exactly confuses you*. First i choose my lens by use, so start with the focal length you want. Then do i want a fast lens, do i want image stabalisation. Then you have the quality of the lens, read reviews for that.


Everything I guess:wall::lol:

I have a Nikon 18-55 vr and a Tamron 70-300 with macro. Now The quality of the Tamron is probably not the best but it was affordable and does give the Macro facility even if its minimum focus distance is nearly a metre. This can be a bit awkward at times and would like a macro that focuses at a closer distance.
The nikon 18-55 gives wide angle and is a sturdy lens so i'm fairly happy with that although an even wider angle lens would be nice. 
A long telephoto or zoom would be nice too but prices for a Nikon lens would make that a non starter.
As for fast lenses, well the faster the lens usually means expensive doesn't it?
As I said it's all a bit confusing as to what way to go forward. Ideally I'm looking to cover a wide range of photographic opportunities without it costing me a fortune.
Let me put it this way if you could only have four lenses in your bag, as a newbie, what would you have?


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## lee.

You have your 18-55. I would consider getting yourself a fast lens and as a newbie and not wanting to splash hundreds I would go for a 50mm prime @ f1.8. You can get these for under £90 but avaiablility is limited.

If you are not happy with the 70-300 tamron then sell it and get a 55-200 to go on the other end of your 18-55.

That will do for now unless you want to get yourself a wide angle.


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## IGADIZ

spitfire said:


> Everything I guess:wall::lol:
> 
> [snip].... Ideally I'm looking to cover a wide range of photographic opportunities without it costing me a fortune.


Mate those two sentences just don't go together.. photography is one of the most expensive hobbies you can get into.


spitfire said:


> Let me put it this way if you could only have four lenses in your bag, as a newbie, what would you have?


17mm----- 180mm macro---- 24-100mm zoom---- 70-200mm zoom
But again it won't be cheap.. you looking at the wrong end of £5K right there (assuming you choose Pro class glass).


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## buckas

IGADIZ said:


> The good thing with glass, is that it keeps its value really good


agree :thumb:

both my lens cost about £200 and £400 more now due to canon putting their prices up (due to the pound being weak)

wonder if it relay's to the second hand market?


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## Bigpikle

TBH, if you cant answer the question already, the answer is buy the cheapest ones that will cover from about 18-300mm and you're all set.

No point in spending lots of money if the basics of lenses, their use and quality etc is not something you understand.

Seriously.


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## DarrylB

If you want a lens for a specialist subject try here: http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/index.asp

I'm going to Le mans and will be hiring a decent lens for then  much cheaper than buying it!


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## singlespeed

If you find yourself compromising with the composition due to your lens(es) being too long or short then consider wider or longer lenses to suit. Thats the easy bit. However don't rule out using your legs instead

A telephoto macro lens obviously has limitations if you don't have much room to work in. However short macro lenses mean you need to be ontop of the subject and the dof can be absolutely tiny.

Do you need _or want _fast glass of f2.8 or less. If you repeatedly have your current lenses wide open to limit the dof, or need to open up the apperture so you can speed up the shutter to freeze action without realy bothering about a full depth to the image. Something like a 70-200 f2.8 can make a huge difference when compared to a standard 70-200 with an apperture of f3.5-6.3 for instance, because if the light isn't bright enough, you would struggle to get a fast shutter speed at 200mm and f6.3 where as the 2.8 would give you a an extra 2 1/3 stops to play with the shutter speed before reaching the same point. The draw back is a fast lens will be significantly larger and heavier than a comparable slow lens

Because most cameras strugle with autofocusing with a lens of f5.6-6.3 or higher, a f2.8 lens also gives the flexibility to be used reliably with an 1.4x extender to give f4 and 1.4 times the focal length without causing autofocus problems ( on most cameras ) or significantly degrading the IQ. A 2x extender would work on most cameras to give a f5.6 lens, but the IQ is normaly degraded.

Then theres vibration control. I know with the Sigma lenses, that the OS is effective at stabilising the image to approximately 2 to 3 stops of shutter speed. Quite handy if shooting at 200mm and therefore a minimum f6.3 on the 18-200 OS, because general wisdom says the shutter speed should be 1/focal length to prevent a blurred shot. So that would need 1/200sec to give a stable image. However the OS will allow a reasonable keep rate at 1/60sec.

Internal AF motors. Essential with some bodies that don't have a motor. However with a body thats got a motor, is the lenses motor faster than the body could do.

Finaly, the quality of the glass and build quality. Probably the larger influence on the price as precision built optics with specialy selected glass comand a higher prices.

Please feel free to pick holes in the above


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## singlespeed

One lens which has received good reviews for its image quality is the Tamron 70-200mm f2.8. Fast glass at a reasonable price and build quality... The draw back is the internal AF motor is a bit slow and can occasionaly hunt a bit if it doesn't lock onto the subject.Apparently its also noisy when compared to the Sigma or Nikon offerings, but I can't realy see a problem with the noise unless you are shooting a quiet intimate location like a wedding.

Did I say it was quite large and heavy when on the front of a smaller body (D60).


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## spitfire

Firstly let me thank you all for taking the time to answer my question on lenses. Big thumbs up:thumb:. It's great to be able to pick your brains. 
Back on topic again and I'd like to ask your opinions on non Nikon make lenses. Are OEM lenes normally of a better Standard or are the likes of Sigma and Tamron equally good.

And.., where do you fellas go for reviews on lenses. TIA


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## robj20

http://www.photozone.de/Reviews/overview

first place i look for reviews.


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## -ROM-

spitfire said:


> Firstly let me thank you all for taking the time to answer my question on lenses. Big thumbs up:thumb:. It's great to be able to pick your brains.
> Back on topic again and I'd like to ask your opinions on non Nikon make lenses. Are OEM lenes normally of a better Standard or are the likes of Sigma and Tamron equally good.
> 
> And.., where do you fellas go for reviews on lenses. TIA


Short answer is Nikon lenses are usually much better than third party lenses, sometimes it's in build quality, sometimes image quality and sometimes both. There are exceptions, for example the new sigma 50mm f1.4 HSM is quite a bit better than nikon's equivalent offering.

But general rule of thumb is OEM is better 99% of the time, that's a very easy question to answer.

The difficult question is just *how much* better they are vs the placebo effect and if the extra is worth the money. Also there is no set formula and these differences differ from lens to lens.

The situation is further complicated by quality control, OEM lenses tend to have very consistent quality control where are third party is a bit more hit and miss, you can have two identical third party lenses one of the lenses could be a very close match to the OEM whilst the identical lens from the same batch could fall way short of the mark.


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## James_R

spitfire said:


> And.., where do you fellas go for reviews on lenses. TIA


try www.cameralabs.com - very good site and comprehensive testing:thumb:


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## spitfire

buckas said:


> first i choose glass quality, so choose L series
> 
> then choose what i want 70-200mm for rally pics, f/2.8L IS USM due to rallies tend to be in dark forests so helps, not to mention it's fast
> 
> then smaller lens for landscapes/close up rally shots on hairpins etc - choose something which will cover 70mm and below.....so it picked 24-70mm f/2.8L USM
> 
> next i'll probably get a 1.4x II extender for the 70-200, to shoot wildlife/birds etc
> 
> would love to have a super wide angle and a big zoom (500mm) but money goes mental!
> 
> hth
> 
> drew


This might sound like a daft question but how do you distinguish an L series lens. Where do you buy them from. I haven't seen any reference to them.

....and in general what do you guys think is better, in camera AF motors or in lens.


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## buckas

spitfire said:


> This might sound like a daft question but how do you distinguish an L series lens. Where do you buy them from. I haven't seen any reference to them.


white or black, with a red ring around it 

http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Pro...F_Lenses/Image_Stabilization_Lenses/index.asp

http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/EF_Lenses/Zoom_Lenses/index.asp

bought my 70-200 from cameraking.co.uk and my 24-70 from jessops as they had a discount code on lenses at the time; i know, jessops were the cheapest on the net! almost fell off my chair


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## spitfire

buckas said:


> white or black, with a red ring around it
> 
> http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Pro...F_Lenses/Image_Stabilization_Lenses/index.asp
> 
> http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/EF_Lenses/Zoom_Lenses/index.asp


Ah right, I take it Nikon do similar?


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## buckas

honestly i've no idea 

drew


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## m500dpp

> Do you need or want fast glass of f2.8 or less. If you repeatedly have your current lenses wide open to limit the dof, or need to open up the apperture so you can speed up the shutter to freeze action without realy bothering about a full depth to the image. Something like a 70-200 f2.8 can make a huge difference when compared to a standard 70-200 with an apperture of f3.5-6.3 for instance, because if the light isn't bright enough, you would struggle to get a fast shutter speed at 200mm and f6.3 where as the 2.8 would give you a an extra 2 1/3 stops to play with the shutter speed before reaching the same point. The draw back is a fast lens will be significantly larger and heavier than a comparable slow lens
> 
> Because most cameras strugle with autofocusing with a lens of f5.6-6.3 or higher, a f2.8 lens also gives the flexibility to be used reliably with an 1.4x extender to give f4 and 1.4 times the focal length without causing autofocus problems ( on most cameras ) or significantly degrading the IQ. A 2x extender would work on most cameras to give a f5.6 lens, but the IQ is normaly degraded.
> 
> Then theres vibration control. I know with the Sigma lenses, that the OS is effective at stabilising the image to approximately 2 to 3 stops of shutter speed. Quite handy if shooting at 200mm and therefore a minimum f6.3 on the 18-200 OS, because general wisdom says the shutter speed should be 1/focal length to prevent a blurred shot. So that would need 1/200sec to give a stable image. However the OS will allow a reasonable keep rate at 1/60sec.


All good comments. One additional factor is the ability of the most recent breed of cameras to produce better quality images at higher ISO ratings, this combined with VR lessens to some extent the need for wide aperture telephotos, although you cannot obtain the narrow depth of field of course.

Due to rapidly rising cost of stuff I have accelerated my outfit build and in addition to my D90 and D60 bodies, have the following lenses:

*Nikon 18-105 VR *- came with D90, good range "walkabout lens"
*Nikon 18-55 non VR *- came with D60 good, light lens, focuses close, good parter to D60 when you dont want to carry anything heavier.
*Nikon 70 - 300VR *- very impressive VR and long range zoom, built in motor
*Sigma 10 -22 WA zoom *great wide angle lens again built in motor so works with both
*Nikon 50mm f1.8 AF *- AFs only with D90 but manual focus on D60 is easy as the screen is very bright. Used for portraits and of course low light, its a real eye opener that this cheap lens is so obviously sharp compared to my other zooms 
*Tamron 90 f2.8 macro* - most recent purchase and this latest version has built in motor so AFs with D60 as well. AF is slow, and the depth of field at macro is incredibly shallow (like 5mm stopped right down!) I think from the great reviews good results are possible but I am finding this a challenging lens to get the best out of.


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## Lloyd71

lee. said:


> You have your 18-55. I would consider getting yourself a fast lens and as a newbie and not wanting to splash hundreds I would go for a 50mm prime @ f1.8. You can get these for under £90 but avaiablility is limited.


The Nikon 50mm prime f1.8 is a stunning bit of kit. I never travel without it, it's so sharp and fast that it can be used for almost anything, and it's a bargain at roughly £100 (I only paid £70, got it before the prices went right up!).
Unfortunately, due to the focus motor being in the lenses on most modern Nikons, you would have to focus it manually but it's easy enough. I use a D50 which still had a focus motor built into the body, so it can autofocus no problems.

It's also a little known fact that if you reverse in onto an 18-55mm lens with the aperture wide open, you get a stunning, if scruffy, macro lens that produces some very artistic results. Here are some of my examples of both the lens used normally and the makeshift macro;

This shot shows the sharpness;


This shows the depth of field and bokeh effect gained from close ups with this lens;


It can also do high ISO shooting (A bit noisy, but the model is still crisp and clear)


And then with it reversed onto an 18-55;


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## spitfire

m500dpp said:


> All good comments. One additional factor is the ability of the most recent breed of cameras to produce better quality images at higher ISO ratings, this combined with VR lessens to some extent the need for wide aperture telephotos, although you cannot obtain the narrow depth of field of course.
> 
> Due to rapidly rising cost of stuff I have accelerated my outfit build and in addition to my D90 and D60 bodies, have the following lenses:
> 
> *Nikon 18-105 VR *- came with D90, good range "walkabout lens"
> *Nikon 18-55 non VR *- came with D60 good, light lens, focuses close, good parter to D60 when you dont want to carry anything heavier.
> *Nikon 70 - 300VR *- very impressive VR and long range zoom, built in motor
> *Sigma 10 -22 WA zoom *great wide angle lens again built in motor so works with both
> *Nikon 50mm f1.8 AF *- AFs only with D90 but manual focus on D60 is easy as the screen is very bright. Used for portraits and of course low light, its a real eye opener that this cheap lens is so obviously sharp compared to my other zooms
> *Tamron 90 f2.8 macro* - most recent purchase and this latest version has built in motor so AFs with D60 as well. AF is slow, and the depth of field at macro is incredibly shallow (like 5mm stopped right down!) I think from the great reviews good results are possible but I am finding this a challenging lens to get the best out of.


Nice selection of lenses there:thumb: I've just noticed this on e-bay, worth a punt?:lol:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nikon-AF-S-DX-Nikkor-55-200mm-f-4-5-6G-ED-DSLR-Lens_W0QQitemZ140305438141QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CamerasPhoto_CameraAccessories_CameraLensesFilters_JN?hash=item140305438141&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1690%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 Now don't all go outbidding me


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## Lloyd71

spitfire said:


> [/URL] Now don't all go outbidding me


:lol: The bit of the lens used for zooming is going to break pretty soon, no wonder it's so cheap! I've got one of those lenses myself actually, I barely use it as the quality is fairly low and it feels horrible to use. Each to their own, I guess.


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## spitfire

Lloyd, How do you go about connecting those lenses, do you need an adapter or what? and also can you tell me what BOKEH means please


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## buckas

spitfire said:


> Lloyd, How do you go about connecting those lenses, do you need an adapter or what? and also can you tell me what BOKEH means please


bokeh's background blur http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokeh


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## Lloyd71

spitfire said:


> Lloyd, How do you go about connecting those lenses, do you need an adapter or what? and also can you tell me what BOKEH means please


On a Nikon SLR you just line up the dot on the lens with the dot on the body and click it into place. It doesn't require anything apart from the lens itself.


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## spitfire

Lloyd71 said:


> On a Nikon SLR you just line up the dot on the lens with the dot on the body and click it into place. It doesn't require anything apart from the lens itself.


:lol: Maybe I've picked you up wrong, I'm thinking of this

"_It's also a little known fact that if you reverse in onto an 18-55mm lens with the aperture wide open, you get a stunning, if scruffy, macro lens that produces some very artistic results._ "

What do you mean by reverse in?


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## Lloyd71

spitfire said:


> :lol: Maybe I've picked you up wrong, I'm thinking of this
> 
> "_It's also a little known fact that if you reverse in onto an 18-55mm lens with the aperture wide open, you get a stunning, if scruffy, macro lens that produces some very artistic results._ "
> 
> What do you mean by reverse in?


Just hold it up to the other one. You can get adapters for it that fit into the filter threads on your lens but I've not tried one of those yet.


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## bretti_kivi

when you go below 28mm or so, you also start getting artefacts - so the lens has to bend light to try and fit it all on the sensor. Fisheye is one way round this, but the most important bit is to be aware of it IMO, then you can work with it.
Any lens gives you a view of the world; a 24 represents both eyes, a 50 just one. A 135 zooms in nicely; each also distorts reality in its own way. If you don't know what you want yet, try older lenses - at least mine work, thanks - and then see what they bring you. A cheap lens with "not so hot" quality in a length you're not sure about will help enormously in deciding whether to splash serious cash or not. 

Oh, and I don't like my zooms any more. I found the manual 135 easier at the track days - no framing to worry about, just position and focus. Might be different with AF...

Bret


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