# Another Graphene Spray - This time by 303



## nicks16v (Jan 7, 2009)

I wonder how many we will get now by the end of the year, maybe they are all the same inside, who knows ? I have highly regarded 303 products ever since I used them many years ago, so I can only assume this wont be a bad product, quite surprised though that they jumped on this bandwagon to be fair.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Are these graphene sprays any good?

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## nicks16v (Jan 7, 2009)

God knows, I just saw it on the Apex Detailing channel I'm subscribed to. Its draw I suppose is how long it may last, but nobody is going to know that yet, so its not going to replace all the stuff I have just yet.


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## AndyQash (Jul 28, 2019)

Watched it on PTO's channel, looked a real easy on easy off product, then I got sick of listening to the guys voice and turned it off.

I think the verdict is going to be out for at least a year, if not more if you go by the manufacturers durability claims.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Pan the Advertiser punting more products for companies in exchange for $$$. Can't believe so many people take what he says as truthful.

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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Yeah, his "reviews" aren't ever reviews. There's never any negatives to any product. People challenged him on it before but he says he only reviews products he likes. Seemingly he thinks they're all perfect.

That said, I do sometimes like his videos.

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## Ennoch (Jan 31, 2006)

MBRuss said:


> Yeah, his "reviews" aren't ever reviews. There's never any negatives to any product. People challenged him on it before but he says he only reviews products he likes. Seemingly he thinks they're all perfect.
> 
> That said, I do sometimes like his videos.


To be fair a lot of industries do work like that. If you get sent products to review and like it, give it a review. If you don't like it/it doesn't work, you give the feedback to the manufacturer rather than airing it to the public. It's a shame, I always found value in writing critique but unfortunately it just doesn't go down well with the manufacturers.


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## nicks16v (Jan 7, 2009)

I suppose in a positive way its good, as they wont be reviewing it unless its reasonably good no ? I saw the Pan video but decided to watch the Apex one instead. We cant get it over in the UK yet so nobody can buy it anyway lol


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Possibly, but even if you like a product, how often do you say that it's absolutely perfect and can't think of a single negative to mention?

With Pan it's every product. A review needs to have positives and negatives to be balanced. Nothing is perfect.

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## nicks16v (Jan 7, 2009)

Yeah, i agree with you. There have to be some negatives.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

You also need to look into the agreement with the manufacture and the reviewer. By law in the US, reviewers need to disclose how they received a product, and if the video is compensated/sponsored by them. If they aren't, technically they don't need to disclose it. They DO need to disclose that they product was sent to them for free, but Pan being Canadian might mean he doesn't need to do that (different laws). Sometimes it's in the video description instead of the video itself, which is technically legal, but I feel to be truer to your audience you should disclose it in the video.

I also don't like the "review it only if you like it" method, as you're leaving advice, content, and consumer guidance on the table by not reviewing the products even if they're bad. I know of a few products I have that are quite miserable to use but I could still find a couple positive things to say about them, even if I whole heartedly don't recommend them.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Agreed. IMO only reviewing stuff you like is just dumb - how do you know if you like it without testing it? It suggests he gets loads of products, tests them, and you never see any of that work if he doesn't like them. Personally I doubt that's the case, I expect he feels lucky when he receives free stuff so says nice things about everything he gets. Even then, any negatives should be noted. You don't have to be super negative to give an honest and critical review.

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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Brian1612 said:


> Pan the Advertiser punting more products for companies in exchange for $$$. Can't believe so many people take what he says as truthful.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


It's not Pan it's scam.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Another 303 review


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

Chicago Auto Pro's recently published a video on the Ethos Graphene Coating, with quite a lot of insight into the chemicals themselves. It was a good video and shows that what graphene can theoretically do, is not usually what's being done. The one benefit that is confirmed is the ease of application vs Ceramic coatings, they can be layered immediately and don't need as long of a cure time. The water spotting seems to be a myth at this point.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Exotica said:


> It's not Pan it's scam.


Some may find him entertaining, I find him extremely annoying and his channel is massively overrated.. anyone who finds him in any way helpful or objective is quite simply an idiot.

I would argue he does not have a product review channel, he has a product showcase channel. Forget the fact he doesn't like to tarnish his name (coughincome) by going through negatives of any product - he provides absolutely no summary of a how a product would meet a customer's needs relative to another product, there is no insight into why you'd go for one product over another.

You don't need to be negative to provide a helpful product summary or comparison - having seen 10 or more videos the more I watch the more I actually think, this is a guy who doesn't actually know much about detailing just a bit of a well off buffoon.


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

Alfred Yow brought us Art de Shine in 2011+ he is not working on Graphene technology, nobody actually mention the context rather like ceramic wax with no requirement of stated amounts, you can join the Graphene forum online contact Alfred.

John Tht.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

atbalfour said:


> Some may find him entertaining, I find him extremely annoying and his channel is massively overrated.. anyone who finds him in any way helpful or objective is quite simply an idiot.
> 
> I would argue he does not have a product review channel, he has a product showcase channel. Forget the fact he doesn't like to tarnish his name (coughincome) by going through negatives of any product - he provides absolutely no summary of a how a product would meet a customer's needs relative to another product, there is no insight into why you'd go for one product over another.
> 
> You don't need to be negative to provide a helpful product summary or comparison - having seen 10 or more videos the more I watch the more I actually think, this is a guy who doesn't actually know much about detailing just a bit of a well off buffoon.


I wouldn't say he's evil incarnate in the light you're shining on him, but you can tell he's in some capacity a schill/advertizer instead of informer/teacher. He does have videos where he goes over some basics for beginners, and his production quality is in fact very high - all things that don't exactly come cheap. I just wish he would take off his protective "no negative criticisms" jacket and give reviewers a more honest take, as he puts out a lot of videos and gets some really good access overall.

The video that broke the camels back for me was the Meguiars Hybrid Ceramic Liquid wax vs Chemical Guys Hydroslick - just terrible prep, application, and results on both products.


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

Charging Auto Pro
Graphene explained..






John Tht.


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

Pan was added to my ‘not interested’ list and his sponsored shizzle no longer makes its way to my radar. Simples. 👌


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## The Guz (Jan 27, 2019)

Titanium Htail said:


> Alfred Yow brought us Art de Shine in 2011+ he is not working on Graphene technology, nobody actually mention the context rather like ceramic wax with no requirement of stated amounts, you can join the Graphene forum online contact Alfred.
> 
> John Tht.


This was posted elsewhere

"A little bit from Alfred Yow, the mind behind the Art d' Shine/SPS coatings. Kinda clarifies the role of the Reduced Graphene Oxide component in the coatings. From a Facebook post regarding graphene coatings. Seems like a bit of a 'helper' to the PDMS portion of the formulation:"

" To add on some answers to the article on Graphene,

The polymer used in Artdeshine's product, PDMS has very low thermal conductivity, absorbing less heat when exposed. And if heat has been absorbed, the better dissipation and thermal conductivity ability of reduced Graphene Oxide (rGO) will help to negate. What we do not want is all that heat absorbed to be trapped. To say it simply, this is a case of using rGO to reduce the insulation (keeping heat) properties of PDMS.

Artdeshine has never touted using flames in any of our tests or marketing materials. This serves no purpose to demonstrate any capability of our coatings. We are not making fire-proof/retardant materials. And again, we are not touting thermal insulation as a beneficial property, we are trying to negate insulation.

Water repellent capabilities do not come from the use of rGO and can be seen in our marketing materials and information. A very high polymer (PDMS) content is used to achieve the better water-repellent effects. The polymer has been functionalized to provide much better water repellent capabilities."


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## LeeH (Jan 29, 2006)

Wow, I thought it was just me who couldn’t abide scam the organiser. 


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

Yes Guz it was me who posted it, Alfred has contact to Singapore University plus his own products withing the graphene concept, search him out..

John Tht.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Sheep said:


> You also need to look into the agreement with the manufacture and the reviewer. By law in the US, reviewers need to disclose how they received a product, and if the video is compensated/sponsored by them. If they aren't, technically they don't need to disclose it. They DO need to disclose that they product was sent to them for free, but Pan being Canadian might mean he doesn't need to do that (different laws). Sometimes it's in the video description instead of the video itself, which is technically legal, but I feel to be truer to your audience you should disclose it in the video.
> 
> I also don't like the "review it only if you like it" method, as you're leaving advice, content, and consumer guidance on the table by not reviewing the products even if they're bad. I know of a few products I have that are quite miserable to use but I could still find a couple positive things to say about them, even if I whole heartedly don't recommend them.


I have no idea on the canadian laws but I know first hand from a brand owner recently entering the US market that Pan requests payment for something to appear on his channel unless it's a product he knows there is a buzz about & will get a lot of views.

It's ridiculous amounts as well as he bases it on his audience size & promises it will be a good review for the payment, the guys a fraud & getting away with it.

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## SunnyBoi (Apr 25, 2013)

So this has turned into a Pan the Advertiser bashing thread.

The 303 overall looks good, I'm tempted to get one for myself and try it out!


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## nc_ (Sep 20, 2015)

I'm not coming in here to try and ruin anyone's chips, but seeing an increased number of products coming to market containing graphene is concerning for one very simple reason: the toxicology of graphene is currently unknown.

There are several studies that have examined its effects in lungs (https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-6528/aa95a8), sperm (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4990966/), and other tissues (https://particleandfibretoxicology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12989-016-0168-y).
All show that the toxicology of graphene at the moment isn't completely understood, and could manifest later in life as yet-unknown health issues.

Please use these materials responsibly, or not at all. With nanomaterial toxicology, it isn't the case of figuring out how dangerous something is, but whether the material is the equivalent of a fluffy ball or a nuclear bomb.

And just in case this brings on some hate/vitriol, my background is in materials science with a BSc in nanomaterials, a PhD in materials science, research in ZnO nanoparticle toxicology and HAp biocompatibility, and currently work at a national lab.


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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

Titanium Htail said:


> Yes Guz it was me who posted it, Alfred has contact to Singapore University plus his own products withing the graphene concept, search him out..
> 
> John Tht.


I think there's a bit of confusion w your post as you mention Alfred Yow is NOT working with graphene. Guessing that's a typo.


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## AD18 (Apr 29, 2019)

atbalfour said:


> Some may find him entertaining, I find him extremely annoying and his channel is massively overrated.. anyone who finds him in any way helpful or objective is quite simply an idiot.
> 
> I would argue he does not have a product review channel, he has a product showcase channel. Forget the fact he doesn't like to tarnish his name (coughincome) by going through negatives of any product - he provides absolutely no summary of a how a product would meet a customer's needs relative to another product, there is no insight into why you'd go for one product over another.
> 
> You don't need to be negative to provide a helpful product summary or comparison - having seen 10 or more videos the more I watch the more I actually think, this is a guy who doesn't actually know much about detailing just a bit of a well off buffoon.


I watched his "THE BEST DRYING TOWEL" 'review' after staying away from his channel for a long time. I pointed out to him, along with so so many others commenting on the video about other towels that are better than what he is suggesting is the best. Upon pressing him as to why he's reviewing those specific ones he revealed its just the ones he has at home and the majority of them were from his buddies at the Rag Company (not knocking their stuff but was so obvious he was going to choose one of theirs as the best). Boy did he get in a strop after that. Need to remember for longer not to revisit his biased channel again.


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## trykkertor (Aug 17, 2008)

Pan the organizer isn't a detailing channel. It is TV-shop.
Just listen to the lingo and ever repeating of the same phrases and gestures.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Brian1612 said:


> Pan the Advertiser punting more products for companies in exchange for $$$. Can't believe so many people take what he says as truthful.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


Is it a fact that he gets paid to promote products ? Wasn't aware.


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## LeeH (Jan 29, 2006)

It’s so blatant, it cannot be for free. 


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2020)

Pan lost his credibility with me the day he promoted Optimum and let the bow tied con artist Yvan "remove" the existing ceramic coating from his paint with a wheel brush!


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Soul boy 68 said:


> Is it a fact that he gets paid to promote products ? Wasn't aware.


A sponsor previously on here confirmed this to me soul. He (pan) requested a 5 figure sum for the range of products to be featured on his channel 

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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Brian1612 said:


> A sponsor previously on here confirmed this to me soul. He (pan) requested a 5 figure sum for the range of products to be featured on his channel
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


What?! 5 figures?! Jeez, that seems a bit arrogant, but explains why he "only reviews products that he likes"... I.E. is obliged to give a perfect review due to the obscene amount he's being paid to review them.

Explains why his reviews just seem like a sales pitch though - focus on all the positives of the product and demonstrates application, but mentions no negatives or any actual "review" content.

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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

DannyRS3 said:


> Pan lost his credibility with me the day he promoted Optimum and let the bow tied con artist Yvan "remove" the existing ceramic coating from his paint with a wheel brush!


Why do you call Yvan a con artist?

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## AD18 (Apr 29, 2019)

Brian1612 said:


> A sponsor previously on here confirmed this to me soul. He (pan) requested a 5 figure sum for the range of products to be featured on his channel
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


5 figures!? That is actually disgusting.


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

Can’t stand pan personally, snake oil salesman for sure 


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

Yes sorry Budget that was an incorrect insertion by predictive typing, Alfred has been developing Graphene concepts plus some sales plus university evaluation, he has a Graphene discussion forum.

The jury is still out to see as Dr Beasley's suggest that the chicken wire top layer (his words) can be produced at a constant performance. As much as some are being promoted as Graphene products that can just be added under the guise of the more researched product. 
Alfred today posted some selling in Singapore under the pretext of the real thing, research of this still continues...

John Tht.


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

Dr Beasley's input 
from Chicago Auto Pro





John Tht.


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## LeeH (Jan 29, 2006)

MBRuss said:


> Why do you call Yvan a con artist?
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


Interested also.

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## Detail_101 (Feb 6, 2014)

trykkertor said:


> Pan the organizer isn't a detailing channel. It is TV-shop.
> Just listen to the lingo and ever repeating of the same phrases and gestures.


:lol:


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## macmaw (Mar 5, 2007)

DannyRS3 said:


> Pan lost his credibility with me the day he promoted Optimum and let the bow tied con artist Yvan "remove" the existing ceramic coating from his paint with a wheel brush!


I don't think he removed the ceramic coating with a wheel brush did he? 😂
He used the wheel brush during decontamination to show there was no marring induced with the products he was using? 
I'm fairly sure he removed the ceramic coating using a machine polisher?


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

Are we talking about infusing Graphene within a product similar to Si02 or Ceramic in wax, the inclusion in itself may increase performance.

Has or is not the challenge to get this as a functional top layer, binding it in that chicken wire membrane concept is where it's strength is not just by its addition alone. 

How do we measure the amount used is more equally effective without that bonded criteria. 

#alfredyow any information ?

John Tht.


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## sharrkey (Sep 11, 2017)

Noticed this today in the artdeshine bottle, defo doesn't look right to me?



















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## graeme (Jan 7, 2006)

I used to watch his videos but like many others have said the guy just doesn't give a balanced opinion and just gets on my t1ts. He did a series of videos with rag company which were interesting as the rag company guy explained a lot about the different blends and GSM etc. Well when he wasn't getting interrupted by Canada's finest

Graphene does look good however for me I have found my way into too many protection products and don't want to try anything else really.


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## DIESEL DAVE (Jul 26, 2007)

sharrkey said:


> Noticed this today in the artdeshine bottle, defo doesn't look right to me?


Yep mines the same, so is the new Infinity Graphene QD I`ve recently bought


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## uberbmw (Jan 31, 2006)

Titanium Htail said:


> Dr Beasley's input
> from Chicago Auto Pro
> 
> 
> ...


Good video on the graphene 'farce'


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

Alfred Yow is Artdeshine he sold products on DW many years ago from the In2 site of Graphene..

“Being a carbon-based material coupled with the presence of oxygen functionalities, graphene oxide can be easily dispersed in organic solvents, water, and polymer matrixes. This compatibility as a filler with polymer coatings (in this case polydimethylsiloxanes) is crucial, as it allows coatings to benefit from its properties.”

You would expect the Graphene element plus the carrier to split as full shaking this product before use...

I know Forensic had done his own side by side, which is ongoing for longer term protection.

John Tht.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

sharrkey said:


> Noticed this today in the artdeshine bottle, defo doesn't look right to me?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The graphene components are the dark parts. If it's anything like the SiO2 infused sprays, it will need a good 30 seconds to 1 minute of shaking before use. Meguiars Hybrid Ceramic wax needs to be shaken otherwise it doesn't perform well (something Forensics mentions in one of his comparison videos).


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## sharrkey (Sep 11, 2017)

Sheep said:


> The graphene components are the dark parts. If it's anything like the SiO2 infused sprays, it will need a good 30 seconds to 1 minute of shaking before use. Meguiars Hybrid Ceramic wax needs to be shaken otherwise it doesn't perform well (something Forensics mentions in one of his comparison videos).


That was it shaken for 2 mins and you can still the graphene particles clearly floating about in the liquid, doesn't give a lot of confidence when you can still suspend black floating dots lol

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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

sharrkey said:


> That was it shaken for 2 mins and you can still the graphene particles clearly floating about in the liquid, doesn't give a lot of confidence when you can still suspend black floating dots lol
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Oh ok... yeah that doesn't seem right. I'd reach out to them and inquire.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

If you've got graphene suspended in your potions, well you got what you paid for - there is graphene in your product.

If you were hoping for something magical from this graphene, well I think you have been suckered.


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