# More cut? Or refine more?



## truupR

Hey guys,

Joined to get some advice from the experts. Fairly inexperienced at detailing:buffer:

Currently correcting my 97 Nissan Skyline R33 GTR (deep pearl grey colour (KN6)).

Products I'm using/used with my Das 6 Pro DA (in no particular order):


Orange hexlogic
Black hexlogic
Menzerna yellow pad
Menzerna Black pad


Scholl S20 black
Megs 105
Megs ultimate
Menzerna Super Finish PF3500

I've prepped the whole car, sadly leaving behind some marring from the claybar. Not to worry. The Scholl S20 + orange hexlogic left good results on a 2 pass run. I thought I was making good progress, sorry for the big pictures 










to










quick side by side, left not done, right side done










Now after working down the one side of the car, I started up the other thinking I was making very good process. By chance I picked up the torch for a quick inspection, I started to notice something strange. When shining the torch directly at the paint, it looks flawless. However, holding it at a high or low angle, the light starts to 'throw' and not give a perfectly clear reflection:










I tried re-passing over it with the scholl S20 black + orange hex with no change. I tried it at lower speeds, I then swapped it, trying the megs #105 and ultimate compounds again at various speeds. No luck, still getting the light scattering at different angles.

This is where my knowledge ends. I'm not sure what the next step I need to perfect the finish. I've tried swapping out the pads for the black hexlogic and menzerna pads with the PF3500.

Do I need to cut more to remove the final imperfections? Or do I need something in between cutting and finishing, as I've noticed I've not got a compound/pad that's somewhere in between?

Any help appreciated :wall:


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## Sicskate

They look like holograms, you might need to refine with a sorter finishing pad and a finishing compound.

You're black pad should do the job, I can't advise you on a polish as I've never used the megs or scholls.


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## dchapman88

Are you working the cutting compounds fully? Just wondering if they are not worked fully then the abrasives might not be fully broken down, and could create some marring / holograms. 

A fully worked compound followed by a fully worked finisher polish on a polishing pad should see you get nice results.


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## Bluebottle

Please feel free to correct me (anyone), I have used Scholl S3 on Orange HexLogic pad followed by DodoJuice primelime plus, then photographed with my homemade'SunGun' and have not noticed any hologram. Perhaps you should try the DodoJuice product as it has a fine cut and cleans the panel ready for 'sealing' (in my case DodoJuice super hybrid sealant/wax). &#55357;&#56841;


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## Alfieharley1

I'd say holograms from the S20, hit it with the black Hex logic and menzerna Super finish. If it does not clean it step it up. I'm not sure of my passes but try going more than 2? With Polishing it's all about time / technique. If your in a rush on the day don't try and do it all in 1 go. Taking your time is key


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## truupR

dchapman88 said:


> Are you working the cutting compounds fully? Just wondering if they are not worked fully then the abrasives might not be fully broken down, and could create some marring / holograms.
> 
> A fully worked compound followed by a fully worked finisher polish on a polishing pad should see you get nice results.


This could be the problem... work the product for longer? or use less product? You could be onto something there. The S20 black has a VERY long dwell time on the paint. Unsure if the megs is any good now, it's sat in my unheated/uninsulated garage for 2 winters  it dries up on the paint before I can complete one pass..

I'll try working the product for longer and post back the results tomorrow. thanks :speechles


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## wish wash

How are you priming your pads


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## chongo

You should of done a test spot first to determine if the paint is hard or soft, and by looking at the pictures and the car make you could be dealing with soft paint. Now correcting can be easy on soft paint as long as you don't go to aggressive first which looks like you have, i.e. You are creating your own damage. You need a finishing polish and pad that will cut but finish down easy. Menzerna 3500 is a great finishing polish but can be a bit oily to remove on soft paint then you will have light marring when removing it. 

A great finishing polish is Sonax perfect finish, great for soft paints and all other paint, but easily to remove. Good luck I hope you find a solution


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## truupR

wish wash said:


> How are you priming your pads


Uh, I typically just rub the product to cover the surface of the pad when using a fresh one..


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## truupR

chongo said:


> You should of done a test spot first to determine if the paint is hard or soft, and by looking at the pictures and the car make you could be dealing with soft paint. Now correcting can be easy on soft paint as long as you don't go to aggressive first which looks like you have, i.e. You are creating your own damage. You need a finishing polish and pad that will cut but finish down easy. Menzerna 3500 is a great finishing polish but can be a bit oily to remove on soft paint then you will have light marring when removing it.
> 
> A great finishing polish is Sonax perfect finish, great for soft paints and all other paint, but easily to remove. Good luck I hope you find a solution


Looking it up, it seems Nissan paint is classified 'soft'. How much of a generalization that is, who knows. The car is 20 years old so unsure if the source of that info applies to cars from 2 decades ago...

It could be any of the above really. Going to try using the Sonax perfect finish or equivalent (megs #205?) on the hexlogic black. I'll also try re-working the product for longer in an un-tested area to see what the results are.


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## truupR

Alfieharley1 said:


> I'd say holograms from the S20, hit it with the black Hex logic and menzerna Super finish. If it does not clean it step it up. I'm not sure of my passes but try going more than 2? With Polishing it's all about time / technique. If your in a rush on the day don't try and do it all in 1 go. Taking your time is key


Yeah this could be the problem. After a 2-pass under the work-light, all seemed well. I should of rechecked more closely with a torch because it felt like it was almost a little _too_ easy/fast.


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## truupR

So I've royally ****ed up now. Not sure how badly.

In a nutshell - theres now a 'dull' finish, on an area around 6x6 on the paint. Almost like a matte finish. Not shiny like the rest.

I was using the menzerna black finishing pad and the menzerna super finish PF3500 on the area in question. Previously I was working down in small sections on the side of the car with the black hexlogic and scholl S20 at low speed. I then tried a new section on a higher speed. Both got good results at removing almost all of the marking which was causing the light to scatter.

I moved on again and swapped to what I'd consider my absolute softest/lightest pad and polish combo. The polish apparently has no cut, and the pad is the softest they make from what I can see. After a few mins working it into the paint *I've been left with a dull matte like finish?!
*
From what little knowledge I have + google: I've either:

A. burnt through the clear coat? Though I'm not sure how, as I'm using the mildest pad/polish combo
B. '_overworked_' the polish?

Is there such a thing on 'overworking' polish?? What does it look like? I'm scared at even attempting putting the orange pad to the paint in-case I have in fact ballsed up the clear coat.

I'll try and post some pics. Any help appreciated


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## dchapman88

Did the pad have any of the paint colour on it when you took it away?
If you had no clearcoat you'd be polishing on paint so the pad would come away the same colour as the car (mildly)


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## truupR

dchapman88 said:


> Did the pad have any of the paint colour on it when you took it away?
> If you had no clearcoat you'd be polishing on paint so the pad would come away the same colour as the car (mildly)


Not that I could see of, the car is dark grey and the pads are black. I tried using some detail spray + a white applicator pad over the area. Then tried it with some white polish on the pad and rubbed it over the area - no colour was on the applicator pad after going over it several times...


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## dchapman88

Well if you've used a white applicator pad over the area after you think you've 'gone through' the clear coat, I'd say you'd be fine there. 

I'd like to say someone with experience with those particular products will come along soon with some technical advice. 
I wouldn't worry too much on the clearcoat issue, I'd say your ok there. 
Pics might be helpful though....


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## chongo

Mate I would seriously put a picture up just show us what is going on. I don't mean to be rude but it's obvious that you are clearly struggling, so before you carry on with another pad and polish it's best to put some up.


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## Alfieharley1

chongo said:


> Mate I would seriously put a picture up just show us what is going on. I don't mean to be rude but it's obvious that you are clearly struggling, so before you carry on with another pad and polish it's best to put some up.


Like Chongo said but some pictures up. Mick Will be the Man to help (He has really helped me) or a quick PM to Stangalang and i am sure Matt will be able to help.

Ill also see whats going on when pictures are up to see if I can use my experience on this.#

Also where are you based? If you local I will happily come over to have a look.


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## truupR

It's very difficult to photograph:




























You can see how clear the reflection is, and how 'murky' it gets in the affected area.

And you're right, I'm totally out of my depth here in a sense of I don't know what it is so I'm not attempting to fix in case I end up doing more damage. You live and learn eh! :wall:

Edit: and I'm based in South Wales unfortunately Alfie lol


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## carlmu77

I would have got a 2nd hand panel from a scrappy to practice with first before jumping in, only saying


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## truupR

carlmu77 said:


> I would have got a 2nd hand panel from a scrappy to practice with first before jumping in, only saying
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've detailed 4 cars before this with amazing results. Never done Nissan paint and haven't really used anything overly agressive. Scholl S20 is a medium cut, the orange hex is a medium cut. In my defense it's not like I've dived in with the heaviest cut pad and compound I could find.

This hazing on the paint has been caused by polish, not a cutting compound...


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## dchapman88

Hmmmmm
I am on new(ish) Nissan paint at the moment, in a juke owner.

I have used a few different finishing polishes on Hex white blue and black to see results. Not come across anything like this. 

Have you got an all out glaze you can try on it? 
I'm out of ideas, sorry!

I'm interested to see what people have to suggest here....


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## truupR

Sorry, didn't realise the thumbnails for the images don't link to the full-res version (though it probably doesn't help):

link
link
link


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## truupR

dchapman88 said:


> Hmmmmm
> I am on new(ish) Nissan paint at the moment, in a juke owner.
> 
> I have used a few different finishing polishes on Hex white blue and black to see results. Not come across anything like this.
> 
> Have you got an all out glaze you can try on it?
> I'm out of ideas, sorry!
> 
> I'm interested to see what people have to suggest here....


Not got any glazes at the moment sadly. I ordered the sonax perfect finish yesterday. I'm sure if it's something that's ON the paint I can easily take it off by re-cutting. I'm terrified that I'll end up completely ruining it if that's not what it is. Need an expert eye


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## chongo

truupR said:


> Sorry, didn't realise the thumbnails for the images don't link to the full-res version (though it probably doesn't help):
> 
> link
> link
> link


Right am not that sure but has the car had a respray at some point in its life? It probably has been being that old, and the last picture shows a hell of a lot of orange peel in the paint. You might very well be dealing very thin soft paint and just maybe when refining you have just passed that point where you have damage the clear coat what finishing polish did you use and how did you refine it i.e. Polishing with your machine.

Plus have you tried a panel wipe to see if that removes any of it, I doubt it would,but try. It's also showing texture in the paint by the looks of it


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## uggski

truupR said:


> I've detailed 4 cars before this with amazing results. Never done Nissan paint and haven't really used anything overly agressive. Scholl S20 is a medium cut, the orange hex is a medium cut. In my defense it's not like I've dived in with the heaviest cut pad and compound I could find.
> 
> This hazing on the paint has been caused by polish, not a cutting compound...


Orange Hex can be quite an aggressive pad depending on the polish. On soft Nissan paint I have never used more than a green with Menzerna final finish.

And thats from advice from Chongo


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## DrEskimo

Personally I wouldn't touch it with anything else until either you or some kind member nearby can get a paint depth measurement.


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## chongo

DrEskimo said:


> Personally I wouldn't touch it with anything else until either you or some kind member nearby can get a paint depth measurement.


By the look of it :doublesho it's to late. But anybody doing any kind of correction should have a PDG especially if you don't know the paints history.


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## DrEskimo

chongo said:


> By the look of it :doublesho it's to late. But anybody doing any kind of correction should have a PDG especially if you don't know the paints history.


Quite....!

Guess this is a case of the best time was yesterday, but the second best time is now!


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## truupR

chongo said:


> Right am not that sure but has the car had a respray at some point in its life? It probably has been being that old, and the last picture shows a hell of a lot of orange peel in the paint. You might very well be dealing very thin soft paint and just maybe when refining you have just passed that point where you have damage the clear coat what finishing polish did you use and how did you refine it i.e. Polishing with your machine.
> 
> Plus have you tried a panel wipe to see if that removes any of it, I doubt it would,but try. It's also showing texture in the paint by the looks of it


I believe you're right with the respray. When I got to that section of the car I noticed slight overspray near the spoiler. It's definitely had a 'touch up' paint job at some point in Japan (hasn't been in the country that long tbh). There's a few overspray freckles around the back of the car. And you're right with it showing a strange orange peely texture in that last pic

This paint finish occurred after a fairly quick 2 pass with Menzerma Super Finish PF3500 at speed 3ish on my DAS 6 pro (not sure if that's too high RPM). I've not tried any type of wipes or removal on it yet. Just left it where it was and came to seek some help.


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## chongo

truupR said:


> I believe you're right with the respray. When I got to that section of the car I noticed slight overspray near the spoiler. It's definitely had a 'touch up' paint job at some point in Japan (hasn't been in the country that long tbh). There's a few overspray freckles around the back of the car. And you're right with it showing a strange orange peely texture in that last pic
> 
> This paint finish occurred after a fairly quick 2 pass with Menzerma Super Finish PF3500 at speed 3ish on my DAS 6 pro (not sure if that's too high RPM). I've not tried any type of wipes or removal on it yet. Just left it where it was and came to seek some help.


Listen mate I think you should go back to the basics when it comes to machine polishing because by what your saying two passes with 3500 at speed 3 is not even slightly enough to fully get the best of any finishing polish, and you think speed 3 is to high.

I can only give you an idea but really it's very hard not to see what's really going on unless it can be seen in the flesh. So unless some pro on here can give you some other insight, then I suggest you fine your nearest pro Detailer to have a look. Good luck mate I hope you find an answer :thumb:


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## Alfieharley1

As mike said i did originally think from the Pictures Orange Peel is now appearing.
Speed 3 is really not high at all. You will be luckily to remove any Microns.

What sort of pressure was applied?

If you send me the first part of your postcode I will see what detailers are in the area or just google search Pro Valet and have a look on there. May be then worth taking it over to one who can give some friendly advice.


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## truupR

chongo said:


> Listen mate I think you should go back to the basics when it comes to machine polishing because by what your saying two passes with 3500 at speed 3 is not even slightly enough to fully get the best of any finishing polish, and you think speed 3 is to high.
> 
> I can only give you an idea but really it's very hard not to see what's really going on unless it can be seen in the flesh. So unless some pro on here can give you some other insight, then I suggest you fine your nearest pro Detailer to have a look. Good luck mate I hope you find an answer :thumb:


I'm certainly no expert - but then I don't spend my whole life detailing. I started out very slowly 3/4 years ago working on my old clio 197 as a bit of a pass time. Results were slow but I eventually got there. I did the same thing with my civic EP3, then my DC5 type R. Normally results would be had with just a 2/3 slow pass process using megs #105 or ultimate compound.

I used the same thing on a friends DC5 after he saw how flawless the paint was on mine - no problems. There was never a need to go to a polishing stage because the paint looked 95% correct on everything I did.

Now again, I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination but I got the results I wanted through trial and error and it hasn't failed me yet. This is the first time I've run into this, and by the responses it seems it's the first time any of you guys have seen something like this too 

It could very well be to do with the fact that the car has had a respray and I'm working with paint that's a lot thinner, who knows. I'll most probably take it to a local bodyshop/detailer at some point. If an expert can share some knowledge on this in the mean time I'm all ears


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## truupR

Alfieharley1 said:


> As mike said i did originally think from the Pictures Orange Peel is now appearing.
> Speed 3 is really not high at all. You will be luckily to remove any Microns.
> 
> What sort of pressure was applied?
> 
> If you send me the first part of your postcode I will see what detailers are in the area or just google search Pro Valet and have a look on there. May be then worth taking it over to one who can give some friendly advice.


I don't apply much pressure at all. I try to keep it pressed lightly up against the paint to allow it to spin at full speed. I kept the speed low because I've never actually used polish before, as I said in my previous post, I've typically got the results I want without having to polish. So keeping the speed down just as a precaution to test was a way to see if it would make any difference at all.

There's a Pro Valet down near Port Talbot which is around a 50 min journey...


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## chongo

truupR said:


> I'm certainly no expert - but then I don't spend my whole life detailing. I started out very slowly 3/4 years ago working on my old clio 197 as a bit of a pass time. Results were slow but I eventually got there. I did the same thing with my civic EP3, then my DC5 type R. Normally results would be had with just a 2/3 slow pass process using megs #105 or ultimate compound.
> 
> I used the same thing on a friends DC5 after he saw how flawless the paint was on mine - no problems. There was never a need to go to a polishing stage because the paint looked 95% correct on everything I did.
> 
> Now again, I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination but I got the results I wanted through trial and error and it hasn't failed me yet. This is the first time I've run into this, and by the responses it seems it's the first time any of you guys have seen something like this too
> 
> It could very well be to do with the fact that the car has had a respray and I'm working with paint that's a lot thinner, who knows. I'll most probably take it to a local bodyshop/detailer at some point. If an expert can share some knowledge on this in the mean time I'm all ears


Well that's gratitude alright  you asked and you got a response so coming back with an answer like yours is disrespectful to the people on here who go out of their way to help.

You say you never use a finishing polish after cutting well then that just says it all:lol: have a nice evening :wave:


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## truupR

chongo said:


> Well that's gratitude alright  you asked and you got a response so coming back with an answer like yours is disrespectful to the people on here who go out of their way to help.
> 
> You say you never use a finishing polish after cutting well then that just says it all:lol: have a nice evening :wave:


Not meant to offend mate, it's just I found your comment quite patronising and of little to no help on the subject.

Take care


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## Moet1974

chongo said:


> Well that's gratitude alright  you asked and you got a response so coming back with an answer like yours is disrespectful to the people on here who go out of their way to help.
> 
> You say you never use a finishing polish after cutting well then that just says it all:lol: have a nice evening :wave:


Suspect I know what the problem may be especially if it's not a clear coat failure. Spent a good half hour of my time on this with a notepad and pen ruling all the possibilities "in and out!" And the answer is........ Pm sent to Mick.:wall::thumb:


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## truupR

Moet1974 said:


> Suspect I know what the problem may be especially if it's not a clear coat failure. Spent a good half hour of my time on this with a notepad and pen ruling all the possibilities "in and out!" And the answer is........ Pm sent to Mick.:wall::thumb:


Not..... entirely sure what you're on about?


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## chongo

truupR said:


> Not meant to offend mate, it's just I found your comment quite patronising and of little to no help on the subject.
> 
> Take care


Mate it wasn't ment to be patronising at all:thumb: it was to stop you causing anymore damage that's all When we get asked questions it's best to narrow it down as much as possible, and when something like this comes up, it can be hard to know what's going on especially when we have pictures only. I did point out things in my posts that you did agree with, so to say that it was little to no help at all, well :wave:


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## truupR

chongo said:


> Mate it wasn't ment to be patronising at all:thumb: it was to stop you causing anymore damage that's all When we get asked questions it's best to narrow it down as much as possible, and when something like this comes up, it can be hard to know what's going on especially when we have pictures only. I did point out things in my posts that you did agree with, so to say that it was little to no help at all, well :wave:


Apologies, I haven't been paying too much attention as to specifically who's saying what - you have added some valuable feedback and I'm genuinely grateful for it. That one comment about with the whole back to basics made it sound like you were saying I'd gone in completely blind with zero research or any clue of what putting a DA/rotary to your paint does.

I've grasped the basic premise of the process and I've soaked up as much information that's available to me via youtube/forums etc. The whole comment about the polish is simply I've never had the _need_ to use it. I've always got the results I've personally wanted so I've honestly never even thought of using it. I'm nowhere near the level of experience most of you guys, and probably yourself, are at. But I've been able to get good results with the small amount of experience I've had so far.

I suppose in a nutshell you offended me because the comment came across as 'lol go sit down, you clearly don't know the first thing about what you're doing let the adults figure this out'. It's difficult to get any tone or emotion when you read text on a screen. Perhaps I interpreted it wrong.

ANYWAY! bad blood aside and moving on. Sadly I can't see any history of the respray as all the paperwork is in Japanese :wall: Not sure what the next step is currently as I don't drive the car this time of year so the car is SORN'd until the summer. Either way I'm not touching it.

Perhaps it'll just buff off with more cut perhaps it wont, I've no intention of touching it until I get a second, more experienced opinion. The PF3500 polish I had sitting around is old... really old. It's probably seen minus temperatures for many parts of last year being sat in my garage, surely that can't be good.

What's baffling me the most is the fact that even with using the orange hex + s20 at max speed initially gave good results - now a black menzerna pad with polish at speed 3.5 has given this effect? How does that even happen


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## Gixxer6

If you need any help with the Japanese translation let me know. A photo of the paperwork with sensitive data removed/blanked out should work

Good luck with the car though


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## mb1

is pf3500 finishing polish


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## chongo

mb1 said:


> is pf3500 finishing polish


Yes and a good one:thumb:


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## mb1

does a finish polish remove any marks which the compund left


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## mb1

and make gloss to the finish


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## Tom_Detailing97

How does the paint feel? Where it's dull, does it smooth like the rest where it's good or does it also feel all dull and dry?


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## chongo

mb1 said:


> does a finish polish remove any marks which the compund left


Yes it will remove any hazing that the compounding will leave:thumb: it will also remove any fine swirls in very soft paint, but be aware it is an oily product to remove if not correctly worked, so using a good panel wipe like Carpro eraser will remove any polishing oils left on the paint. It's a finishing polish so of course it will leave your paint looking great as long if corrected correctly :thumb:


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## truupR

Surprised to see this thread still going!

So back at it after mulling over what to do. Some things I've learnt along the way about the original post - the paint is soft. Very soft. EXTREMELY soft. I'm sure just thinking about the car in the garage is causing swirls. Even after a wash when the car was only covered in a very light film of warm weather 'dust', caused some marks in the paint. That was using bilt hamber autowash, optimum no rinse, snow foam prewash, 2 bucket method AND swilling the mitt with clean water every time.

Something I've never considered is the towels I'm using to wipe off the product too. Could they be causing marks when removing product? Currently using Carpro Boa towels.

At this point I'm a little overwhelmed with where I should even start. I'm fairly certain that the marks on the paint are from the DA pad..... The question is, is it the pad that's causing it, or the product? (or even the towels) I'm using Hexlogic Blue and Red pads... I could correct a new area using a hexlogic blue + sonax perfect finish fairly easily but still have what looks like pad marks 

I watched an interesting video from Ammo NYC on polishing with _just water_  (I'll put the vid at the bottom) The problem is I'm not entirely sure how the hell I'm going know if I'm removing the existing pad marks and adding new ones, or if I'm simply not removing the existing pad marring?? Is the perfect finish too harsh for the paint, do I dilute it?

I've accepted defeat in a sense of the paint is so soft, even just washing it is going to cause some marking. Over time that's going to get worse. Think it's time to get it wrapped


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## uggski

What about a coating?


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## steelghost

Worth considering the Glare system, or Carpro Essence?


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## truupR

steelghost said:


> Worth considering the Glare system, or Carpro Essence?


I'm heavily considering using a product with some sort of 'filling' capabilities. Even if I took the car to a professional detailer and got it done to 90ish% (I don't believe the paint will ever be 100% perfect...ever!) - As soon as it needs a wash I'd just be un-doing what I've paid to have corrected 

Question is - which is better, Carpro essence or Glare microfinish? Both seem to be going for the same approach. Glare is half the price of the Carpro though. At the same time I've never heard of Glare before. Feel free to weigh in if anyone has used either of these products


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## steelghost

Bear in mind that Glare is a system rather than a single product. You'd want, at a minimum, Micro and Pro+ sealant, and ideally Spider as well.

I've never used Essence although I know it's very well regarded by eg chongo (as well as others). It's essentially a finishing polish with added gloss / filling, and protection. If your paint is good enough now, Essence could finish it to a high standard and also act as prep for a CQuartz coating which would give it a measure of marring resistance.

Glare is intended to replace abrasive polishes, the idea being that you use the products in a certain order to permanently fill paint defects. It can be layered so you can always go over a panel again if it gets marred after you've polished it. You can also wax or use sealant over it, but you need to take that off if you're going to add more Glare. User Shiny on here uses it to keep his "Nighthawk" black Honda Type R looking good as it also suffers with very very soft paint.

I've used it on my own Toyota and been impressed with its filling capabilities - I use it on a purple Scholl pad with good results but you can use as fine a pad as you like.


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## truupR

steelghost said:


> Bear in mind that Glare is a system rather than a single product. You'd want, at a minimum, Micro and Pro+ sealant, and ideally Spider as well.
> 
> I've never used Essence although I know it's very well regarded by eg chongo (as well as others). It's essentially a finishing polish with added gloss / filling, and protection. If your paint is good enough now, Essence could finish it to a high standard and also act as prep for a CQuartz coating which would give it a measure of marring resistance.
> 
> Glare is intended to replace abrasive polishes, the idea being that you use the products in a certain order to permanently fill paint defects. It can be layered so you can always go over a panel again if it gets marred after you've polished it. You can also wax or use sealant over it, but you need to take that off if you're going to add more Glare. User Shiny on here uses it to keep his "Nighthawk" black Honda Type R looking good as it also suffers with very very soft paint.
> 
> I've used it on my own Toyota and been impressed with its filling capabilities - I use it on a purple Scholl pad with good results but you can use as fine a pad as you like.


Thanks for that! Appreciate the details in there. I'm really undecided on which to try now lol.. I'll do more research into both and post up the results. I'm swaying to the Carpro as it's one simple product rather than going through a several stage process with the glare..


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## chongo

It does sound like you have soft paint and you have a problem with slight micro marring which I think it could be from the pad your using is either to soft to break down Sonax perfect finish which has a nice long working time. Having soft paint can be a challenge when it comes to finishing but easy to correct, are you using any panel wipe after PF because it just could be the slight oils you are leaving behind after polishing, plus your not working it properly might well be your problem.

Essence which I used today is a product that cures this problem your having by the choice of pad you choose either a soft finishing pad or a pad that is a bit firmer like the white polishing pad from chemical guys this will work with Essence as it contains micro abrasives to remove slight hazing or micro marring as long as you work Essence properly.

Carpro do a gloss pad that works fantastic with Essence so have a read on Essence and give it ago. Ps, ensure you panel wipe before Essence


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## truupR

chongo said:


> It does sound like you have soft paint and you have a problem with slight micro marring which I think it could be from the pad your using is either to soft to break down Sonax perfect finish which has a nice long working time. Having soft paint can be a challenge when it comes to finishing but easy to correct, are you using any panel wipe after PF because it just could be the slight oils you are leaving behind after polishing, plus your not working it properly might well be your problem.
> 
> Essence which I used today is a product that cures this problem your having by the choice of pad you choose either a soft finishing pad or a pad that is a bit firmer like the white polishing pad from chemical guys this will work with Essence as it contains micro abrasives to remove slight hazing or micro marring as long as you work Essence properly.
> 
> Carpro do a gloss pad that works fantastic with Essence so have a read on Essence and give it ago. Ps, ensure you panel wipe before Essence


Thanks for the info Chongo, I think I'll order up a few carpro items you've recommended and post back how I get on. Never realised how soft paint could be, and I'm quickly finding out how utterly infuriating it can be to maintain


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## chongo

truupR said:


> Thanks for the info Chongo, I think I'll order up a few carpro items you've recommended and post back how I get on. Never realised how soft paint could be, and I'm quickly finding out how utterly infuriating it can be to maintain


I hope you get it sorted bud as I understand your frustration :thumb:


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## Bigpikle

I've had good success polishing with water on a blue MR2 many years ago. Softest paint ever and corrected about 90% and finished really well with a 3m finishing pad and water at 900rpm on the rotary.
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=87517


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## truupR

Sorry I thought I'd add to this as a LOT of detailing videos come up on my youtube recommended xD

So I was watching AmmoNYC talking about removing buffer trails or pad marks on soft paint - he talks about how using a very very soft pad on soft paint actually causes buffer marks?! And typically people reach for an even softer pad thinking its going to fix, but actually causes more problems. Instead he talks about using a very hard pad on soft paint to remove the buffer trails. Thoughts anyone?

here's the video:

AmmoNYC


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## chongo

truupR said:


> Sorry I thought I'd add to this as a LOT of detailing videos come up on my youtube recommended xD
> 
> So I was watching AmmoNYC talking about removing buffer trails or pad marks on soft paint - he talks about how using a very very soft pad on soft paint actually causes buffer marks?! And typically people reach for an even softer pad thinking its going to fix, but actually causes more problems. Instead he talks about using a very hard pad on soft paint to remove the buffer trails. Thoughts anyone?
> 
> here's the video:
> 
> AmmoNYC


Your going to confuse yourself if you watch to many videos :thumb:

As I said before any refining polish will remove buffer trails you just have to find the right polishing pad. I never use a finishing pad if I've installed buffer trails even on soft paint, I tend to use the Rupes yellow (which is not hard) or a L/C HT pad, you still need some firmness to breakdown or work the polish (205) because you will be wasting your time. But Essence has abrasives in it to remove buffer trails in soft paint with ease:thumb:


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## truupR

chongo said:


> Your going to confuse yourself if you watch to many videos :thumb:
> 
> As I said before any refining polish will remove buffer trails you just have to find the right polishing pad. I never use a finishing pad if I've installed buffer trails even on soft paint, I tend to use the Rupes yellow (which is not hard) or a L/C HT pad, you still need some firmness to breakdown or work the polish (205) because you will be wasting your time. But Essence has abrasives in it to remove buffer trails in soft paint with ease:thumb:


I think that's the problem chongo, there's TOO much information out there so it quickly becomes overkill. I've ordered some Rupes Yellows, they seem to be held in very high regard so thought I'd give them a go.

I'm about to order some carpro essence, what panel wipes or product would you recommend?

edit: to add to that I'm assuming something along the lines of a degreaser type product? I've only got detailing sprays and claybar lubes in my garage currently..


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## chongo

truupR said:


> I think that's the problem chongo, there's TOO much information out there so it quickly becomes overkill. I've ordered some Rupes Yellows, they seem to be held in very high regard so thought I'd give them a go.
> 
> I'm about to order some carpro essence, what panel wipes or product would you recommend?
> 
> edit: to add to that I'm assuming something along the lines of a degreaser type product? I've only got detailing sprays and claybar lubes in my garage currently..


Rupes yellow pad is my favourite polishing pad that and the L/C HT orange polishing pad.

As for panel wipe just stick with Carpro panel wipe great stuff for preparing your paint before you use Essence, :thumb:

I would be looking to use a closed cell pad if your going to use Essence like their own gloss pad or their polishing pad.


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## dchapman88

chongo said:


> Rupes yellow pad is my favourite polishing pad that and the L/C HT orange polishing pad.
> 
> As for panel wipe just stick with Carpro panel wipe great stuff for preparing your paint before you use Essence, :thumb:
> 
> I would be looking to use a closed cell pad if your going to use Essence like their own gloss pad or their polishing pad.


Mr C, just a quick question....

You've said above about applying essence ideally with a closed cell pad like their gloss pad.

I've looked on their site and they say it's open cell?!

https://carpro.uk.com/products/carpro-gloss-pad-ultra-soft-finishing-pad

Are we thinking of the same pad, or did you have something else in mind?
Just wondering as I'm in the market for the best pad for my essence...


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## chongo

dchapman88 said:


> Mr C, just a quick question....
> 
> You've said above about applying essence ideally with a closed cell pad like their gloss pad.
> 
> I've looked on their site and they say it's open cell?!
> 
> https://carpro.uk.com/products/carpro-gloss-pad-ultra-soft-finishing-pad
> 
> Are we thinking of the same pad, or did you have something else in mind?
> Just wondering as I'm in the market for the best pad for my essence...


Sorry bud my mistake :wall::wall: well spotted :thumb:

Yep their gloss pad is excellent if you have already polished the paint and your happy with the finish, but I've never really used it with a pad that has more cut than a yellow polishing pad. Some people have even used it with a MF cutting pad in the states but I don't think it would leave a great finish if you ask me.


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## dchapman88

chongo said:


> Sorry bud my mistake :wall::wall: well spotted :thumb:
> 
> Yep their gloss pad is excellent if you have already polished the paint and your happy with the finish, but I've never really used it with a pad that has more cut than a yellow polishing pad. Some people have even used it with a MF cutting pad in the states but I don't think it would leave a great finish if you ask me.


Ok cool thanks for that. 
I'll have a looky into the yellow polishing pad,

I have seen a YouTube video of a guy using essence on a MF pad, I don't think he was too chuffed with the results

Cheers


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## truupR

Right, finally got some time to try out this carpro essence.

Came through along with my rupes yellows and........... massive success. Unsure if its the pads, product or the combination of them both but FINALLY it's at a point where there's no pad marks left behind.

Primed the pad, quickly covered the area on speed 1, then up to between 3.5/4 for a slow 1 pass gave the results. The fleck in the paint seems to 'pop' a little more when looking at it in the light. Perhaps a placebo effect, but it looks to me like it does.

Anyway, a few before and afters - apologies for the pretty dire picture quality

Before:


















After:


















Really happy with the results and who knows maybe someone will stumble on this thread looking for a solution when working on soft paint. Thanks for all the help Chongo, Steelghost and everyone else who stuck with me through my moments of sheer frustration :thumb:


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## Deadshot

Sorry for the newb question but it's not clear to me if you sorted that dull patch? Had it gone through clear coat or did it come back with the right gear?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## truupR

Deadshot said:


> Sorry for the newb question but it's not clear to me if you sorted that dull patch? Had it gone through clear coat or did it come back with the right gear?


I've not attempted that part of the car yet. Risky but I'm going to try a one pass with this essence + rupes yellow combo and see how it comes out. There was no paint transfer on the pad at the time it happened, and there's no transfer on a white MF towel when wiping it over - so I haven't struck through the clearcoat....yet

Once I get around to doing that part of the car I'll report back the results. Complete and utter guess but maybe the heat has some how dulled the finish on the clear coat (even though the DA was set to 3 ) The more I've looked at the paint VERY closely while working on it, the more I can see it's had a respray pretty much all over. I'm sure that'd have something to do with the really bizarre dulling. The car is 20 years old, but the paint certainly isn't.


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