# paint gloss test.....



## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

OK, so this may turn out to be a 'can o worms' thread, but I thought I would share my plans, and maybe start (hopefully) a decent debate on the subject...

I'm thinking of doing a little test to try and show what 'stage' of a detail brings out the most gloss and shine to the paint....

I'm ordering a pretty basic gloss meter, and it's more just me being curious and trying to be able to measure the 10-15 hours that I'm putting into some cars!! :lol:

I was thinking of using the Jeep bonnet as a test bed (again), because it's black, flat and I know the history of it.... thinking this is better than a scrap panel I know nothing about...

so, some thoughts:

I'm going to give the Jeep it's yearly clean soon, and going to clean the bonnet, but put no LSP on it... so come spring time, it should be pretty dirty and messed up...

I'm going to take base readings... dirty bonnet... :lol:

then just PW off the crud... take a reading

snow foam... reading

2BW.... reading

decon... not sure if I want to break this down, or just bundle the 3 stages together (tar, iron, then clay).... reading...

now to me... that is the minimum I would do to get a car looking much better..

this is where is may go a bit mental and all over the place as there is so many different ways to go from here... but....

I'm then thinking of splitting the bonnet into 3 sections...

section 1 will be just a finishing polish / AIO / cleanser type

section 2 would be a 'normal' 2 stage polish and refine

section 3 would be a wet sand, then polish and refine

readings would then be taken after this as well....

so now we have the 3 sections.... and ready for an LSP...

again... a million ways to go... so....

if possible...if possible..... :lol: I was thinking of then splitting up each of the above sections into 3 again....

into the 3 new sections, I would put a cheap wax, an expensive wax and a sealant....

and then take the final readings....

I think it would be interesting to see what stage gives the biggest % gains, biggest bang for your buck,

also be good to see if it's really worth the time and effort for 'full' machine polishing / wet sanding - again in % terms, and probably only for a hobbiest...

and finally, the age old question, do LSPs add anything that can be measured to the paint, and does it matter if they are £1 or £1000

I must point out, this wouldn't be a product test, and I would not talk about the products used, names, or companies.....

so, what do we think!?!?

pointless!?!?

interesting!?!?!

remember folks... it's just for fun... it's only detailing!!!! :lol: 

any thoughts welcome....

:thumb:


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## id_doug (Apr 6, 2011)

Now this should be very interesting in the results department and the inevitable "can of worms" scenario  which I am sure will follow.

Great idea and subscribed with much interest :thumb:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

you need a 4th section, wax only!!!

Time to disprove that myth that it's all in the polishing!


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

And yes, it's always interesting! Lets see how good your polishing skills are hey Cuey? :lol:


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## Karl woods (Mar 15, 2012)

Sounds very interesting , look forward to your results .


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## Kotsos (May 7, 2011)

Very interesting test looking forward to the results. 

Can you test any glazes too?


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## nick.s (Dec 21, 2009)

Would be a good test Cuey. Interested in the results :thumb:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Good idea cuey mate,this should be interesting


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Subscribed. Interested in Ravens comment about just wax too.


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## scratcher (Jul 20, 2010)

Sounds like a good plan to me. It'll be a fun project for you.

I like Raven's idea of a wax only section too.it'd be interesting to see how much gloss can come from just an LSP.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I like that idea... half the bonnet has already been wet sanded to remove some key marks, so I guess that would be an ideal clean, decon, LSP only section...

:thumb:


Sent using tappadappadingdong


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Nice one on the gloss meter Cuey! :thumb:

Look forward to you dispelling a few detailing myths along the way! :devil:

Alan W


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## id_doug (Apr 6, 2011)

I think the great benefit of this will be that so much of what is preached is so subjective, with so many variables. It will be great to actually see some data attached to the "normal" procedures to ascertain there true benefits and effectiveness of each procedure and or product type.


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Very interesting CB. Looking foreword to seeing the results! :thumb:

Subscribed


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

Subscribed


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## Obsessed Merc (Apr 10, 2011)

Did you get a chemistry kit as a littlun ? 

My kind of "experiment" - cant wait to see results.

Need to take readings inside under same lighting conditions I guess to rule out differences in ambient background lighting ?

Interested to know what meter you plan using, sounds like a thing to add to my Xmas list


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

I'd be surprised if section 3 wet sand,polish & refine doesn't yield the best results tbh


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Sounds good......in the way that it could only make sense on DW! And good idea not naming the products.

I see you have an AIO but would add a pure fillers/glaze in there, a 2 stage polish 'v' a glaze would be an interesting comparison - I suspect you could cut 10 hours off a car detail, achieve 95-99% of the results, it's not permanent (nether is a full polish in reality!), it's easily redone and maintains CC thickness.



Dj.X-Ray said:


> I'd be surprised if section 3 wet sand,polish & refine doesn't yield the best results tbh


Of course, I would suspect the same, but this is a reasonable attempt at removing the subjectivity of looks and quantifying the results, is it 40% glossier....or 1% glossier compared to a shampoo and AIO?


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

Interesting this. Look forward to the results. 

Time to find out whether we think we see a difference or whether it is really there.

Or this could go the other way and make everyone think there going mentle - I'm sure there is a difference but...


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Bero said:


> Sounds good......in the way that it could only make sense on DW! And good idea not naming the products.
> 
> I see you have an AIO but would add a pure fillers/glaze in there, a 2 stage polish 'v' a glaze would be an interesting comparison - I suspect you could cut 10 hours off a car detail, achieve 95-99% of the results, it's not permanent (nether is a full polish in reality!), it's easily redone and maintains CC thickness.
> 
> Of course, I would suspect the same, but this is a reasonable attempt at removing the subjectivity of looks and quantifying the results, is it 40% glossier....or 1% glossier compared to a shampoo and AIO?


Yeah i agree bero mate,it's a good idea it'll be interesting to see what difference products make if any


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

sounds like fun.. 

I tried one of those gloss meter things before... but only took before and after readings lol.

flat black is probably the best test bed too


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## dave-g (Nov 14, 2009)

Actually sounds very interesting, would like to see the results, but that's a lot of effort!! Lol.


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## lawrenceSA (Jul 17, 2012)

Subscribed and definitely keen on seeing the results of this - really good idea mate


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## Millzer (Jan 24, 2012)

I like the sound of this!

Once it’s done people will say ‘’I was trying to achieve level 2 gloss so only went for the 'whatever' method shown by The Cueball’’ :thumb::buffer:


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## CodHead (Sep 21, 2012)

I think you have too much time on your hands but I will still suscribe as it all sounds terribly interesting!!!:thumb:


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## gav1513 (Apr 16, 2009)

this right here should be good, it could turn out alot of people are gutted about spending so much money on rather expensive and the proved by you to be useless products, i shall be one of those rather upset people if that turns out to be the case


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2012)

Subscribed and interested to see results.


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## Johnboy82 (Nov 12, 2010)

Could this be the most worthwhile DW Test of all time?

Subscribed!


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## organisys (Jan 3, 2012)

Great idea. My only comment would be a Gloss reading before and after each of the refine stages.


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## Z4-35i (Jun 12, 2012)

Very interesting project, looking forward to seeing the results of this, with lots of pictures of the various stages. You'll potentially have an interesting looking bonnet on the Jeep once you're done.


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## Valis (May 3, 2011)

organisys said:


> Great idea. My only comment would be a Gloss reading before and after each of the refine stages.


Agree.

It will be hard wait till spring.


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## jc_geddes (Dec 3, 2012)

subscribed - like this idea alot.


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

A good idea, oh the Shine !!!!

John Tht.


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## Crash (Apr 14, 2009)

Looks to be a well planned out informative experiment :thumb:

Look forward to seeing the results.


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## geoff.mac (Oct 13, 2010)

yo cueball, you know this'll never work cos once you've shown that a lot of good marketing is behind alot of products they'll complain about what temp you applied the product was wrong, and was the wind blowing n/sw at 6 notts per hour and of course was it bst or not :lol: :lol: :lol: 

great test btw :thumb:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Just to update everyone... I haven't forgot about this, and I've just now put the order in for the gloss meter...

should be here within the next 2 weeks...

:thumb:


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## id_doug (Apr 6, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> Just to update everyone... I haven't forgot about this, and I've just now put the order in for the gloss meter...
> 
> should be here within the next 2 weeks...
> 
> :thumb:


I had forgotten, but still looking forward to the results :thumb:


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## profoundoblu (Jan 30, 2013)

Subscribed!


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## Pignut71 (Mar 12, 2013)

profoundoblu said:


> Subscribed!


Ditto!


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## cleancar (Sep 21, 2006)

Sounds like a plan , what gloss meter have you gone for ?


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## conner (Oct 8, 2012)

I cant wait to see this! i have always told myself that the final result is only as good as the prep. This will show me whether i'm diluded or not.


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## zedcor (Jan 9, 2011)

looking forward to this...


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## dogfox (Apr 5, 2009)

Very interesting indeed. Subscribing.

dogfox


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## ted11 (Jul 8, 2011)

This could be one of the best tests I have read, well done mate.


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## tarbyonline (May 23, 2009)

Very interested in this. Would being able to replicate exact lighting conditions affect the readings any? No clue how the tech works but just wondering



> yo cueball, you know this'll never work cos once you've shown that a lot of good marketing is behind alot of products they'll complain about what temp you applied the product was wrong, and was the wind blowing n/sw at 6 notts per hour and of course was it bst or not


Or where Saturn was in proximity to Uranus . Nonetheless will be interesting to see tho will be hard to convince many as they won't know which products where used and so you will get the inevitable 'the results would have been better if you had applied product x' posts.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

the gloss meter has landed.... 

hopefully get the test done next weekend when I'm back to detailing...

:thumb:


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## Huey (May 30, 2009)

Very interested in this.....could dispel a lot of myths and even prove a lot of theories.


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## Greboth (May 14, 2012)

Now this is interesting, what seems logical to me is the flatter you can get the paint the shinier it will be so wet sanding will be the best, 2 stage polish next and so on down the list. It will be interesting to see any difference between a sealant and wax though as they do sit differently on the paint. I also think results will show that wax does add something on the unpolished panels but wont on the panels that have been properly machined.


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## Kelly @ KDS (Aug 4, 2008)

I have done this many times on my one to one training courses . 

will be interesting to see what your results are like 

kelly


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## Guest (May 2, 2013)

Should be an interesting test. Out of interest, which gloss meter did you go for?


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## id_doug (Apr 6, 2011)

Kelly @ KDS said:


> I have done this many times on my one to one training courses .
> 
> will be interesting to see what your results are like
> 
> kelly


Are you keeping your thoughts on the QT until Cuey posts his thoughts? Will be interesting to see how there compare.


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## Greboth (May 14, 2012)

Kelly @ KDS said:


> I have done this many times on my one to one training courses .
> 
> will be interesting to see what your results are like
> 
> kelly


Interesting, have you recorded your results and posted them or do you do it just so you can see the increase in gloss while training?


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I have decided this weekend will be the first test using the gloss meter:

LSP only.

It seems everyday on here that people are asking for a wax, or other LSP.... and everyone throws theirs options in the ring.... usually with a pic of a car wearing said choice.... the issue for me is that most of these cars have been polished first 

I am also reading more and more LSPs that state they increase gloss levels, and make the car look glossier/wetter/shiney/awesome <insert whichever Clarksonesque hyperbole you want>

so, 2 of the age old questions/fighting points will be looked at:

Can a LSP add gloss - in a measured way..... or is it all intangible.

Is a cheaper on just as good as an expensive one....

I'll add a link when it's up and running.... 

:thumb:


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

Just noticed the sig cuey..... Love it


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

-Mat- said:


> Just noticed the sig cuey..... Love it


I'm finding it saves a lot of time and effort for people to grow up.... :lol:

:thumb:


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## Ashley6 (Oct 7, 2012)

The Cueball said:


> I have decided this weekend will be the first test using the gloss meter:
> 
> LSP only.
> 
> ...


I'm about to buy some wax and was asking this question yesterday, I think i'll wait for your findings before taking a plunge :thumb:


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## willwander (Nov 30, 2012)

Fantastic, good on ya.

I so wish people would follow your lead and do proper objective blind testing, with results written by a impartial third party rather than the manufacturers marketing dept.

I get so bored of people saying 'This is the best product I've ever used blah blah' only to find out that they are (or want to be) best mates with the retailer, don't they realise that some of us are not that gullible.

Cheers and thanks again


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

..Or bigging up the latest 'Flavour of the month' then half hour later they're flogging it in the sales section


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## tom-225 (Aug 30, 2009)

which gloss meter have you got Cuey? is it a multi angle one or just a 60 degree one?


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## Greboth (May 14, 2012)

In my head logic on swirly paint wax will increase the smoothness appearance of paint as it has to have some filling effect which in my head suggest that gloss will increase too. Also explains why amatuers who get near perfect paint says wax makes a difference but the pro's who get perfect glass smooth paint says it doesn't. This is pure conjecture based upon what seems to make sense in my head so post the results already!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I agree with all the comments... Plus if nothing else it's a bit of fun to see if there is a tangible improvement in gloss…. Just have a look at the selling mumble jumbo that go with most LSPs… Almost every one I’ve read promises improvement in gloss etc….

@Ashley, it was actually your thread that made my mind up, I think there were a few people giving you unfair information and unfair comparisons.. It’s been going on for ages, but your thread was the straw that broke my back! :lol:....as I mentioned on there. 

@Tom - car paint needs the 20 degree meters, but I have a multi angle one...

@Greboth - The whole testing may follow what most people think, it may surprise a few, ever fewer may care... I don't expect anything will change... but I have OCD so if something can be measured, I'm going to try it out! :lol:

:thumb:


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## tom-225 (Aug 30, 2009)

Spot on Cuey I cant wait for the results


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## dave89 (Mar 12, 2013)

This will be interesting, really looking forward to it


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## Jack (May 14, 2007)

Looking forward to this Cueball. Thanks for doing it


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## Will_G (Jan 23, 2012)

Cant wait to see this one too Cuey, I like the various posts in manufacturers sections showing their car wearing this or that. Lets see a before picture of it wearing no LSP and see if people can tell the difference


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

Should make interesting reading Cuey, i expect some surprising results.
Thanks for doing this:thumb:

Kev


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## adjones (Apr 24, 2013)

willwander said:


> Fantastic, good on ya.
> 
> I so wish people would follow your lead and do proper objective blind testing, with results written by a impartial third party rather than the manufacturers marketing dept.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately it seems many are convinced by the fanboys who sing praises of all the freebies they get. Look at all the supposed manufacturers, it isnt about what products are good, it is about who has the biggest marketing budget and who can offer the biggest discounts.

Look forward to results of this test, I've long believed the wax fanaticism is totally unjustified in performance.


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## Obsessed Merc (Apr 10, 2011)

Looking forward to seeing how the tests pan out.
Lots of variables to consider and eradicate.
I wonder how many manufacturers are having a 2p-10p-manhole cover weekend ?


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Just in case anyone subscribed on here has missed the LSP test, it's now up...

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=306456

:thumb:


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