# Aston martin db9 smart repair process.



## Andyb0127

As it seems alot of people say there no such thing as a decent smart repair or all ive seen is bad ones. Im now a smart repairer so ive taken some pics of an aston martin i did today with paint flaking off the near side front wing just to show what can be done and the end results. 


Didnt get any pics of the flaking paint. Above the pics are of it flatted down and a 2k high build primer applied and flatted and prepped.



Above are the pics of the base colour applied and blended in this is done with max meyer waterbase paints, as its a smart repair the base is kept as small as possible.





Above is laquer and fade out applied which will have an infa-red on it for twenty five minutes the laquer used is max meyer hs clear coat two coats are applied just past the basecoat, then on the last coat a fade out is sprayed over the edge of the laquer helping to fade and blend the laquer in making it easier to polish into the original paint.






Above is the end result showing the laquer all polished in and no edges or it showing where the laquer was blended in and faded out. Hopefully this will prove that not all of us smart repairers should be tarred with the same brush and cant do decent smart repairs or theres no such thing. i take pride in my work and no matter what the car all will be treated the same way with the same results. :thumb:


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## snoopin

Nice work mate top job....

Shame you don't smart repair the golfs at my company...


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## suspal

Top work fella


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## e32chris

nice to see a smart repairer who is happy to show this, its far too easy on forums to believe everything you read and I expect many of the critics have had no personal experience of smart repairs. 
you only tend to hear about the bad ones, same as body shops, dealerships, etc I have found there is a lot of scare mongering that goes on not all based on facts.
nice job and nice car to work on


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## waqasr

Amazing work there Andy, you could not even tell if thats been painted or not. 

But i wanted to ask a quick question regarding Fade out sprays, how long after the last coat of clear do you use the fade out spray? Also I assume you only use it very sparingly on the edges of the clear?


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## R7KY D

I'm glad your in Brentwood , Not too far from me at all if I should ever need you


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## SBM

Great job , well done indeed:thumb:
Very impressed

Ben


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## Leebo310

Top job mate


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## Andyb0127

e32chris said:


> nice to see a smart repairer who is happy to show this, its far too easy on forums to believe everything you read and I expect many of the critics have had no personal experience of smart repairs.
> you only tend to hear about the bad ones, same as body shops, dealerships, etc I have found there is a lot of scare mongering that goes on not all based on facts.
> nice job and nice car to work on


Thanks mate.
I'm more than happy to show smart repairs that I do, if it helps to prove to people what can be done, and an insight of how its done and what the end results look like. I will be posting up more pics of smart repairs I do hoping it will dispell the myth about them.


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## Andyb0127

waqasr said:


> Amazing work there Andy, you could not even tell if thats been painted or not.
> 
> But i wanted to ask a quick question regarding Fade out sprays, how long after the last coat of clear do you use the fade out spray? Also I assume you only use it very sparingly on the edges of the clear?


Thankyou.
With fade out i use it through my spraygun. I can't stand these aerosol fade outs as there's no real control over it. What i do is use is add fade out thinner to some of the laquer I've mixed. So you would have sort fifty percent laquer fifty percent fade out, i apply it soon as the last coat of laquer has been applied so it dissolves the edge of it. Your correct you don't need to use much as its very almost like spraying thinners and can catch you out very easily if your not careful which is why i use it in a spray gun as i have control over it.


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## Andyb0127

R7KY D said:


> I'm glad your in Brentwood , Not too far from me at all if I should ever need you


Not a problem anytime always willing to help a fellow dw member. :thumb:


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## Mojito

Very nice repair!
How much would this repair cost?


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## craigeh123

Andys an awesome painter from the work ive seen on here , however hes gone about this all wrong . Smart repairs are meant to be carried out outside in adverse conditions preferably raining , using a poorly matched colour and leaving a visible line where you faded out and another visible line where the lacquer stopped . The repair should be as noticeable as the damage repaired albeit in a colour similar to the car. 

Andy please keep posting pics ( if you can) , i don't know why but i have a huge interest in paint and its methods as you know , and im very interested in fade outs


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## squiggs

craigeh123 said:


> Andys an awesome painter from the work ive seen on here , however hes gone about this all wrong . Smart repairs are meant to be carried out outside in adverse conditions preferably raining , using a poorly matched colour and leaving a visible line where you faded out and another visible line where the lacquer stopped . The repair should be as noticeable as the damage repaired albeit in a colour similar to the car.


:lol::lol::lol::lol:

:thumb:


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## craigeh123

That ms how the guys that used to come to the ford dealer i worked at did it ! Ive also seen an independent guy did my bosses car at my last place and it was spot on . 

Same as any trade you get good and bad , and people who want a quick money spinner and people who take pride in their work


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## Andyb0127

craigeh123 said:


> Andys an awesome painter from the work ive seen on here , however hes gone about this all wrong . Smart repairs are meant to be carried out outside in adverse conditions preferably raining , using a poorly matched colour and leaving a visible line where you faded out and another visible line where the lacquer stopped . The repair should be as noticeable as the damage repaired albeit in a colour similar to the car.
> 
> Andy please keep posting pics ( if you can) , i don't know why but i have a huge interest in paint and its methods as you know , and im very interested in fade outs


Lol I knew id done it wrong again.
Not a problem mate I'll take more pics as I do them and post them up. :thumb:


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## rf860

Does look good (and a nice car too!). Is the longevity of the repair as good as oven baked paint?


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## squiggs

craigeh123 said:


> That ms how the guys that used to come to the ford dealer i worked at did it ! Ive also seen an independent guy did my bosses car at my last place and it was spot on .
> 
> Same as any trade you get good and bad , and people who want a quick money spinner and people who take pride in their work


Some - not all, but a lot - of dealer work doesn't have to be spot on. In most cases all that has to be achieved is enough to take the buyers eye off the damage.
The buyer never knew the damage was there so they don't look for it.
This I believe is the area where the Smart industry sometimes gets a justifiable slating for poor standards. But it's not necessarily all due to techs bad workmanship. A lot of the blame should be held by the dealers who only want to pay pittance for a repair - therefore the tech simply can't afford to put the time into producing a totally invisible result, nor can they afford to use the best products.
If someone buys a second hand car from a dealer and a couple of weeks down the road spots a repair failing the dealer can wash his hands of it by simply saying 'nothing to do with me - the previous owner must have had it repaired'
It's a different kettle of fish when you do retail work - the customer you work for knows exactly where the damage was, expects nothing less than perfect and knows exactly who did the work should it go wrong.

Don't get me wrong ..... I admire the guys doing dealer work, having to do say 10 jobs a day to make their money. I couldn't do it!


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## President Swirl

Sterling work my friend. You are certainly in the right job.


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## squiggs

rf860 said:


> Does look good (and a nice car too!). Is the longevity of the repair as good as oven baked paint?


Using specialist infra-red lamps (which you'll often find in body shops) the area reaches the same temp as an oven bake and is baked for the same amount of time.
As long as the products are good there's no reason why it shouldn't last as long as oven baked job :thumb:


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## Tom145

great repair, what grade did you use on repair and the blender to take the texture out? when you blended did you empty the gun, mix the fade out and lacquer in a pot or just put it gun and shake? on a repair what wouldn't require all the texture taking out can you match the texture across the whole panel or is there a slight difference in the repair and blended area? sorry to pick your brain i`m very interested in your repair techniques. Tom


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## PS CUP

Great job!


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## DaDangerMan

great job, what did you flat down the rest of the panel with?


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## Andyb0127

rf860 said:


> Does look good (and a nice car too!). Is the longevity of the repair as good as oven baked paint?


Thanks.
Yes it will be the same no different to being done in an oven. :thumb:


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## Andyb0127

Tom145 said:


> great repair, what grade did you use on repair and the blender to take the texture out? when you blended did you empty the gun, mix the fade out and lacquer in a pot or just put it gun and shake? on a repair what wouldn't require all the texture taking out can you match the texture across the whole panel or is there a slight difference in the repair and blended area? sorry to pick your brain i`m very interested in your repair techniques. Tom


Repair had a 2k high build primer used on it. Then infa-red for twenty mins was then blocked with P600 and finished with P1000, then the area where the base colour is going to be a P2000 abralon is used and the area where the clear will be faded out will be done with a P3000 trizact disc. 
Once coloured first coat of clear is sprayed just over the basecoat, then second coat is taken slightly to where i intend to fade it out. With fade out i have a seperate pps pot with clear and around fifty percent fade out added to it then swap pps pot over to one with fade out and its applied only around the edge of where im loosing the clear mostly just one coat will do as its only one of clear that your fading into.
Polishing wise these astons are flatter with P1500, P2000, and finished with P3000 trizact and the polishing system we use is 3M three stage polishing system so when polished there will be no peel left in the final finish as we try to replicate as near to the original finish as we so there's no visible signs of any paint work.


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## Andyb0127

DaDangerMan said:


> great job, what did you flat down the rest of the panel with?


paint work is is flatted with P2000 abralon, then where were blending into it will be P3000 trizacted.


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## spursfan

Cracking work Andy:thumb:

Kev


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## Hasan1

Really nice work there thank you for showing


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## 123quackers

Hi Andy,

could you let us DW people know if this is a drop off collect same day job?
Ruff idea of cost. appreciate each job is different form the next but some ruff estimates please :thumb:

great work :thumb:


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## jamie_s

I have tried a similar technique once recently, my boss told me what to do and left me to it so I did as I was told! I applied the clear similarly to you although on the second coat wasn't thinned any more and at the edge of the clear I just emptied most of the clear out of the gun and added normal 2k thinner so the mixture was almost pure thinner. Sprayed it over the blend and made an almost undetectable blend. Is there any benefit to using dedicated fade out thinner and does the final coat to be blended have to be a lot thinner? As in your final coat was 50% fade out thinner, wheras mine was normally 2k thinned at around 10%


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## Andyb0127

123quackers said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> could you let us DW people know if this is a drop off collect same day job?
> Ruff idea of cost. appreciate each job is different form the next but some ruff estimates please :thumb:
> 
> great work :thumb:


Thanks mate.
Not a problem. Yes the car was returned back to customer the same day total time for this job was about four and a half hours. If i remember right the total cost for this job was £220 +vat. :thumb:


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## Freddie

I haven't read all comments so you may have already answered my question. What company do you work for and where in Brentwood are you please. I want to look at your website and possible look at some approx prices for some work. (Peeling lacquer from bird sh1t on roof and small scratch on bumper down to plastic) 
Thank you in advance


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## TonyH38

Top job done looks perfect.


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## 123quackers

Andyb0127 said:


> Thanks mate.
> Not a problem. Yes the car was returned back to customer the same day total time for this job was about four and a half hours. If i remember right the total cost for this job was £220 +vat. :thumb:


Great, thanks for the info. very reasonable too. :thumb:


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## jamie_s

jamie_s said:


> I have tried a similar technique once recently, my boss told me what to do and left me to it so I did as I was told! I applied the clear similarly to you although on the second coat wasn't thinned any more and at the edge of the clear I just emptied most of the clear out of the gun and added normal 2k thinner so the mixture was almost pure thinner. Sprayed it over the blend and made an almost undetectable blend. Is there any benefit to using dedicated fade out thinner and does the final coat to be blended have to be a lot thinner? As in your final coat was 50% fade out thinner, wheras mine was normally 2k thinned at around 10%


did you see this?


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## toddy23

Nice repair Andy and all fade out thinner is slow thinner I do it same way as Andy does the fade outs with a 50/50 mix of slow thinner and clear I think this way the edge will never rip back but as long as the clear/fade out is passed the base it should never rip and don't polish the blend to quick after it's been lamped off allow to cool for a bit.we do fade out blends all the time,what's the point in painting a full bumber with clearcoat when it's only got a little scuff or scratch on it and you can never tell it's been done


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## jamie_s

toddy23 said:


> Nice repair Andy and all fade out thinner is slow thinner I do it same way as Andy does the fade outs with a 50/50 mix of slow thinner and clear I think this way the edge will never rip back but as long as the clear/fade out is passed the base it should never rip and don't polish the blend to quick after it's been lamped off allow to cool for a bit.we do fade out blends all the time,what's the point in painting a full bumber with clearcoat when it's only got a little scuff or scratch on it and you can never tell it's been done


Oh I agree! Keen to learn all aspects of paintwork repair as all applications are unique and require different techniques. Just want to learn what's done and why and see the results. Seamlessly blending the clear without any visible edge really interests me. Everything else I already knew.


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## Andyb0127

jamie_s said:


> did you see this?


Yes mate was getting round to replying. 
As toddy says its a 50/50 mix of clear and a slow/standard thinner. I use the same thinner we use in the clear for this as above, as I've tried these fade thinners not to been on them never seem to polish in that well. So I tend to stick to a standard thinner as ours are smaller repairs and need be polished after infa-red but does need to be left to cool down then should polish in to a seemless fade out. Its all down to practice you can get aerosol fade out but I personally think there sh1t as you have no control over them, which is why I use a spraygun.


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## jamie_s

Andyb0127 said:


> Yes mate was getting round to replying.
> As toddy says its a 50/50 mix of clear and a slow/standard thinner. I use the same thinner we use in the clear for this as above, as I've tried these fade thinners not to been on them never seem to polish in that well. So I tend to stick to a standard thinner as ours are smaller repairs and need be polished after infa-red but does need to be left to cool down then should polish in to a seemless fade out. Its all down to practice you can get aerosol fade out but I personally think there sh1t as you have no control over them, which is why I use a spraygun.


good stuff thanks for the reply. I take it the clear ends in the area that has been hit with 3000? I remember my dad told me years ago that you couldn't blend clear over a sanded area as the would always be a tiny edge between the old and new clear that you couldn't polish out due to the scratches left by the abrasive. I'm guess this would be true if you tried to do it over 1500 and my dad didn't have access to 3000 as it wasnt used/available at the time.


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## Andyb0127

jamie_s said:


> good stuff thanks for the reply. I take it the clear ends in the area that has been hit with 3000? I remember my dad told me years ago that you couldn't blend clear over a sanded area as the would always be a tiny edge between the old and new clear that you couldn't polish out due to the scratches left by the abrasive. I'm guess this would be true if you tried to do it over 1500 and my dad didn't have access to 3000 as it wasnt used/available at the time.


Yes your dads most likely right there. I've always faded mine where its been trizacted and had no issues polishing it in. Alot of people get problems with polishing fade out because they haven't let the panel/fade out cool down properly, or have the polisher speed far to fast.


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## jamie_s

Andyb0127 said:


> Yes your dads most likely right there. I've always faded mine where its been trizacted and had no issues polishing it in. Alot of people get problems with polishing fade out because they haven't let the panel/fade out cool down properly, or have the polisher speed far to fast.


Ahh ok, well I'll have a play with it next time I get a chance. Thanks for the help


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## liam99

Great work Andy, Who's primer are you using?

Thanks


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## Andyb0127

liam99 said:


> Great work Andy, Who's primer are you using?
> 
> Thanks


Thanks mate. :thumb:
We are using max Meyer multi surface primer at the moment, no complaints about it a really good versatile product as it can be used as a high build or wet on wet primer. :thumb:


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## XRDAN

that is a nice repair:thumb: what set up have you at work to do these repairs? i.e you obviously have an air fed mask, but are you spraying these in a booth?

cheers


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## Gravit8

Hi Andy, amazing work. My Audi has a few scratches, could I please come to you to get it repaired?


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## Shanusascarabus

Wow, that really is amazing work buddy


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## Paintguy

Great repair Andy, I must have missed it when you first posted it.

Do you ever find the need to use pure fade out to wet the final edge? For larger fades, particularly on blacks where the fade out is more likely to be visible after polishing I'll have 3 pots; clear, 50/50, and pure thinner. It might just be the clear I'm using which is pretty high solids suitable for single coat use so needs a little bit of extra help to taper the film build down at the edges.

A really good fade out thinner I've found is DeBeer 8-171. It's a regular 2K thinner but is extra slow, giving a longer wet time to melt the edges.

Although with a job like that I wouldn't be able to stop myself from clearing the whole panel. Quicker (in my environment) and zero chance of ripping the blend back.


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## Andyb0127

Paintguy said:


> Great repair Andy, I must have missed it when you first posted it.
> 
> Do you ever find the need to use pure fade out to wet the final edge? For larger fades, particularly on blacks where the fade out is more likely to be visible after polishing I'll have 3 pots; clear, 50/50, and pure thinner. It might just be the clear I'm using which is pretty high solids suitable for single coat use so needs a little bit of extra help to taper the film build down at the edges.
> 
> A really good fade out thinner I've found is DeBeer 8-171. It's a regular 2K thinner but is extra slow, giving a longer wet time to melt the edges.
> 
> Although with a job like that I wouldn't be able to stop myself from clearing the whole panel. Quicker (in my environment) and zero chance of ripping the blend back.


Thanks mate :thumb:
We use a rapid clear, first coat is over the base, then we apply one full coat, and for fade out we just use max Meyer 4310. Which is a fifty fifty mix which we find dissolves the edges in as we want it to and aslong as the panels cooled down properly it will polish in fine. Know what you mean most people would be tempted to clear the whole wing in a car like that as it would be easier if your unfamiliar with smart repairs specially as its black and like you said running the risk of it not polishing in properly. :thumb:


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## Paintguy

Cheers for that Andy.

The lines are a bit blurry for me as I've done several years of SMART and several years in a booth, so often get tied between the two when I have a small job on 

And lets not beat around the bush here - doing a SMART / local area repair is often _much_ harder than just painting the whole thing, which is why I still do them from time to time to keep my hand in and make sure I still have what it takes!

I guess that's why SMART has such a bad reputation. I've always said it's down to the operator. Some can do it and some can't. Being thrown to the wolves with only a few days training behind a gun is a recipe for disaster but it seems to happen a lot. Thankfully there are skilled guys out there that really know what they are doing, but I guess it's a bit of a lottery, which is why I'd always suggest looking at a guys previous work before letting him loose on your own car.


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## dnw

Impressive work. Would you kindly PM me your contact details?


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## gally

I can't say i'm not sceptical. It's clear you put in more effort than most. You're still outside booth conditions. There is a reason bodyshops spending hundreds of thousands on booths.

Also it looks a fair finish but we've always found longevity of smart repairs the issue not so much just after it's done.


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## squiggs

gally said:


> I can't say i'm not sceptical. It's clear you put in more effort than most. You're still outside booth conditions. There is a reason bodyshops spending hundreds of thousands on booths.
> 
> Also it looks a fair finish but we've always found longevity of smart repairs the issue not so much just after it's done.


In a lot of cases (ie those that take pride in their work) the products used on a Smart repair and a full respray are the same, prep will be the same drying/baking temps will be the same and finishing will be the same.
So where do you think the problem might lie concerning the longevity of a good smart repair?


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## Andyb0127

gally said:


> I can't say i'm not sceptical. It's clear you put in more effort than most. You're still outside booth conditions. There is a reason bodyshops spending hundreds of thousands on booths.
> 
> Also it looks a fair finish but we've always found longevity of smart repairs the issue not so much just after it's done.


I understand what your saying. But that said yes we take pride in our work even tho the repair/prep/paint is a smaller scale. If done correctly there should be no issues with the longevity of a smart repair we haven't suffered any. In all honesty squiggs has pretty much summed it up. I know people are doubtful of this type of repair but doesn't matter what job you do there's good and bad in all of them trouble being people only remember the bad which in turn has an effect on the ones that do take pride. Way i see it a happy customer will be one that returns. :thumb:


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## Gravit8

Thanks for you message Andy. I will give your company a ring. Still unable to reply to pm's due to having under 10 posts on Detailingworld.


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## Graeme1

Looks good now but i would be interested to see what it looks like in a couple of years down the line.

It may be fine but black and fade out lines can show through after time.

Personally with the amount of time to mask out and polish in i would have done the full wing, probably find it would of been quicker. 

Not knocking your work im just skeptical over "smart" repairs being in the restoration bodyshop game a while now.


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## mr paint

Graeme1 said:


> Looks good now but i would be interested to see what it looks like in a couple of years down the line.
> 
> It may be fine but black and fade out lines can show through after time.
> 
> Personally with the amount of time to mask out and polish in i would have done the full wing, probably find it would of been quicker.
> 
> Not knocking your work im just skeptical over "smart" repairs being in the restoration bodyshop game a while now.


one of the main reasons this is done is undetectable paint work ...if you look at wing to door ...same wing to bumper ...same so on

if you paint edge to edge you MAY never gain the same texture/peel or flatness

as you know as a painter its not just colour you need to match its the clear too

Tommy


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## Titanium Htail

Great information and specific technique here thanks for sharing gents.

John Tht.


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## squiggs

Graeme1 said:


> Looks good now but i would be interested to see what it looks like in a couple of years down the line.
> 
> It may be fine but black and fade out lines can show through after time.
> 
> Personally with the amount of time to mask out and polish in i would have done the full wing, probably find it would of been quicker.
> 
> Not knocking your work im just skeptical over "smart" repairs being in the restoration bodyshop game a while now.


I understand what you're saying - but fades are also used in bodyshops. 
Let's take 3 series - I believe the rear quarter, c pillar, cant (roof) bar, B pillar and A pillar are all one piece.
So if a 3 series went into a bodyshop have a scratch on the A pillar repaired you wouldn't really expect them to continue lacquering half a car finishing at the other end of the car with the quarter panel 

The other thing is a Smart repairer probably does a fade on every job he does (and if after all that practice he can't get it right then he shouldn't be in the game).
Bodyshops do do fades - but not as often.
I wonder which fades people should be more sceptical about


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## Graeme1

I use fade outs nearly every day on insurance work but you do it on as small cross section so it's easier to polish in.


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## Clyde

Very impressive. Keen to discuss some work with you so pls drop me a pm with your details.


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## gally

I do agree on the time thing also. The process you've written down there woukd easily take as long as a proper booth prepped job. Especially considering how small an issue it is.


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## Qfruits

Hi, would you mind pm'ing me with you details took have a few bits need doing.
I presume you can cover southend, Essex? Are you based in Brentwood Essex?


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## mr paint

gally said:


> I do agree on the time thing also. The process you've written down there woukd easily take as long as a proper booth prepped job. Especially considering how small an issue it is.


Don't think the running cost of 1 ir lamp is the same as running 2 fans 3phase 18 lights and the burner of the booth to get upto temp etc ...

The only reason people spend so much money on a booth is a controlled spraying area the controls the overspray and heated air flow for optimal results and through put .

Tommy


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## toddy23

As long as the clearcoat has passed the basecoat and blended into scotched area the blend should polish every time and last, I have even not used fade out thinners and just polished the edge of my clearcoat with no problems( I did this just to see what happens),I do fade outs all the time at work and use any swage lines I can get away with this way it saves me time with not totally stripping jobs out and I always do what's easiest for me which I know what works and what doesn't.


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