# TESCO Daisy APC = Does any1 else think this is overated



## Clean-my-sxi (Feb 5, 2008)

Been using it a while on my wheels and interior and i just wondering what the big fuss about it is, i know its only 65p but when cleaning interior seats, carpets i find it leaves more of a damp smell then a lemon one, i found i can get the seats nice and clean with a very weak mix of car shampoo in a spray bottle and a microfibre to wipe over, i get a nice cherry smell left aswell.

When cleaning wheels, after you have sprayed it on, you still have to work the stuff in to get rid of all the crap. The same result can be had with the shampoo you have left in your wash bucket and a brush though.

So im just wondering what the big fuss is about. I think i mite try another brand to see if its any better.


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## Gandi (Dec 18, 2007)

Clean-my-sxi said:


> Been using it a while on my wheels and interior and i just wondering what the big fuss about it is, i know its only 65p but when cleaning interior seats, carpets i find it leaves more of a damp smell then a lemon one, i found i can get the seats nice and clean with a very weak mix of car shampoo in a spray bottle and a microfibre to wipe over, i get a nice cherry smell left aswell.
> 
> *When cleaning wheels, after you have sprayed it on, you still have to work the stuff in to get rid of all the crap*. The same result can be had with the shampoo you have left in your wash bucket and a brush though.
> 
> So im just wondering what the big fuss is about. I think i mite try another brand to see if its any better.


You have to work Billbery to get the alloys clean.

APC is APC regardless of if its made by Tesco or the Sultan of Bruni


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## joe_0_1 (Apr 7, 2007)

No complaints from me, works spot on on the arches, tyres, shuts ?

Have you tried it in a foaming head?


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## m411mtf (Feb 10, 2008)

I've not had any problems with the Daisy apc. Certainly never leaves a damp smell that's for sure.

I don't think it's been overrated, here, but if it has, it's been by people who know their onions!


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## spitfire (Feb 10, 2007)

By far the best APC i've used so far is MEGS. Tried a couple of supermarket brands and I wasn't impressed. I've now started using AS G101 to see how good it is. But the megs so far for me had the best 'feel' to it and I like the smell too.


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## Dixondmn (Oct 12, 2007)

Daisy works well on the kitchen floor!! and it is cheap, but I dont think i'd use it on the car. - imo


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## THE CHAMP (Aug 1, 2008)

I find it work ok for me and with a price that is good value :thumb:


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## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

I really think people shouldn't use household APCs on car interiors especially as many claim they are un-suitable for upholstery/fabrics.

I think it's creating quite a dangerous situation that the acronym APC is becoming synonumous with any cleaning chemical that has multiple uses.

They are NOT all the same, the ones created for cars such as G101 and Clean All have been designed to work on all interior trim materials and therefore are safe to use.

Even the forum favourite; Megs APC - isn't just any old All Purpose Cleaner, it's much more of a multipurpose interior cleaner (read optical brighteners etc), that because of it's chemical make-up just so happens to clean exterior surfaces as well.

The problem is it won't be long before we start to see people causing damage using chemicals they thought where safe just because they fall under the umbrella of APC!


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## Clean-my-sxi (Feb 5, 2008)

No i have not tried it in a foaming head, i dont know where you get them from.

Im not saying it doesent get rid of muck off wheels, but some people seem to rave on about it as if it does something other products cant. 

When i first got Daisy i used it on the wheels in a squirty bottle and left for a while, rinse the wheel off and alot of the muck was still there which meant i had to go over them with a sponge or brush.
Now i know that the APC does need to be worked in, but my point is if you have to wash the wheel with a sponge or brush anyway, why bother with the APC, just use your shampoo in a bucket.

Its the same with interiors i find, the APC in a squirty bottle doesent make cleaning any easier or better then a weak shampoo mix in a bottle.

I know this maybe just my opinion, but thought i would voice it.


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

apc is apc at the end of the day (be it megs, autosmart etc)

i personally wouldnt use daisy, as i think g101 is superb, and for £2 a litre, i dont see the need in trying out some tesco stuff  lol

also, i dont use an apc to clean fabric, when a dedicated fabric cleaner is designed to do the job


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## ipodsandguns (Jul 31, 2008)

i use megs mainly but daisy in the arches


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## wyliss (Feb 9, 2007)

spitfire said:


> By far the best APC i've used so far is MEGS. Tried a couple of supermarket brands and I wasn't impressed. I've now started using AS G101 to see how good it is. But the megs so far for me had the best 'feel' to it and I like the smell too.


Totally agree re Megs. I too would not use 'Daisy' on my car. :thumb:


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## Chris424 (Dec 5, 2007)

ipodsandguns said:


> i use megs mainly but daisy in the arches


Seconded!! :thumb: I find that foaming heads use quite a bit so in goes cheap daisy!


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## Clean-my-sxi (Feb 5, 2008)

Where do you get foaming heads,


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## mike b (Jun 13, 2006)

Check the approved suppliers on here....i got mine from Elite


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## ipodsandguns (Jul 31, 2008)

bust detailing site stock them bout a quid fifty


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## Clean-my-sxi (Feb 5, 2008)

Maybe a foam head would alter the results im getting with it


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## farcrygamer (Sep 6, 2007)

1:4 for arches and tyres does quite good job. no compliants for 65p. I personaly use megs apc on interiors:wave:


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## Timmo (Mar 21, 2006)

been using this for a fair while now and have had absolutely no issues what so ever with it! 
laves a pleasant smell in the car after, maybe your over diluting it and using a bit if your getting a damp smell in the car?? 

apc is apc, its what its designed to do! if your going to argue that you shouldnt use non automotive apc in the car then you shoulndt use aerospace 303 on the car either as its not menat for cars is it! (otherwise why would it be called aerospace!!!) 
there are so many products that cross over out there! using industry specific ones youd be spending Far more thna you need! 
AS g101 is used by farmers, workshops, garages etc. so basically your saying they are all wrong because its an automotive produt and they shouldnt use it????
its apc at the end of the day and does exactly what you need it to! 

if your happy spending circa £13 + delivery for a us gallon of megs than thats great! its up to you entirely! but when yo can get a product that does exactly the same in a uk gallon for less than £2 you need some justification for it unless your essentially a label snob! 

end of the day, what its about is using what your comfortable using, just because one person uses megs doesnt mean you all have to and likewise with daisy, poorboys, Ag etc. etc.! use what YOU find easiest! 

i've used lord knows how many different types of apc over the years, and they all do ther same job! clean a multitude of sins! 
i've got one in the shed i tested for a chap that dilutes down to 200:1! (took a while to play with dilution ratio's to get it spot on! 100:1 was still a bit too strong!!!) works great on any thing! which is exactly what its supposed to do as an All purpose cleaner!


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## Mr Concours (Mar 8, 2006)

I have no issues with the Tescos Daisy APC,wouldnt use it on seats as I have dedicated upholstry cleaners and a wet vac in my arsenal,would use it diluted on other very dirty parts ie dash door cards.

The bonus with this product is, aside from price,you can just pick it up when doing the shopping, no hassle.


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## cdti_sri (Jul 17, 2006)

Side by side ive used megs @10:1 and Daisy 10:1 and the difference is quite clear in the way the megs clings for longer and IMO cleans better. Daisy has its uses but needs to be made up stronger than the megs. So therefore I feel it doesnt work out that much cheaper.

I wont be buying daisy again and once my megs is done think I shall try AS g101.


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## noyellowsponge (Sep 24, 2008)

Good for the money that's for sure.


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## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

> been using this for a fair while now and have had absolutely no issues what so ever with it!
> laves a pleasant smell in the car after, maybe your over diluting it and using a bit if your getting a damp smell in the car??
> 
> apc is apc, its what its designed to do! if your going to argue that you shouldnt use non automotive apc in the car then you shoulndt use aerospace 303 on the car either as its not menat for cars is it! (otherwise why would it be called aerospace!!!)
> ...


I think your 303 argument is a little obtuse; it's only a name and is primarily designed to be a plastic dressing which is suitable for automotive use.

I respect your opinions but I cannot agree with you in this case. A product like Megs APC which is more like Brisk or Super Interior Cleaner is always going to be safer to use on delicate plastics and upholstery/leather than a product designed to cut through grease on kitchen worktops.

You may have misunderstood my point; I am not saying that one all purpose cleaner will not clean as well as another because that clearly is not the case and I agree that in terms of cleaning power, 'an APC is an APC', as you put it.

However what I am saying is they are not all suited for the same purposes and problems with sticky residue left on fabrics, fabric colour bleaching, damage to soft coatings on trim (think DISCO ash trays), runs in leather, damage to fabric fibres, colour bleaching from plastic trim etc will arise from using these products.

Even Clean All which is specifically formulated to be used on car interiors comes with the warning that it must not be used on suede interiors. Can you say that Daisy is safe to use on suede? The answer is no because it has never been manufacturer tested and ultimately the person to discover you can't will be the one who has ruined their upholstery.


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## isherdholi (Sep 18, 2007)

Timmo said:


> been using this for a fair while now and have had absolutely no issues what so ever with it!
> laves a pleasant smell in the car after, maybe your over diluting it and using a bit if your getting a damp smell in the car??
> 
> apc is apc, its what its designed to do! if your going to argue that you shouldnt use non automotive apc in the car then you shoulndt use aerospace 303 on the car either as its not menat for cars is it! (otherwise why would it be called aerospace!!!)
> ...


Well said that man! :thumb:


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## Timmo (Mar 21, 2006)

dominic84 said:


> I respect your opinions but I cannot agree with you in this case. A product like Megs APC which is more like Brisk or Super Interior Cleaner is always going to be safer to use on delicate plastics and upholstery/leather than a product designed to cut through grease on kitchen worktops.


Apc is a little differnt to kitchen work top cleaner though isnt it! which is effectively what your suggesting it is??? brisk is a completely different product! in a different range so why your comparing it i dont know!! brisk is an interior cleaning product and nothing more! its not a apc in any way shape of form! however, it can leave a really cool 80's retro glowing hands style under UV lighting!
i absolutely agree that an interior specific product will be far better for interior plastics, thats not the point though! a car shampoo is better for washing the car, yet people still use apc for sections!! catch my drift here??? 
at the end of the day, an all purpose cleaner is just that! a product that can be used on a multitude of applications, be that cleaning your hall way carpet, your kitchen tiles, your bathroom, your windows, your car interior, engine bay etc. etc.! it is designed purely as its name dictates! and i am sure Megs when thye made their version of apc had the same thoughts in mind! rather than just restrict it to purely vehicular useage!



dominic84 said:


> Even Clean All which is specifically formulated to be used on car interiors comes with the warning that it must not be used on suede interiors. Can you say that Daisy is safe to use on suede? The answer is no because it has never been manufacturer tested and ultimately the person to discover you can't will be the one who has ruined their upholstery.


i have and dont in any post suggested using apc for suede/alacantara/leather purely because they are not suitable for the product! if you want to f#ck them up Royally then crack on by all means! but specialest materials like suede and alacantara need different care! i will only use a proper leather care for leather be it the home sofa or a custy's car, same for alacantara, 
if youve ever used apc too strong on leather you know what happens! which is why i dont ever sugest using it for that purpose! 
but are you saying that megs is perfectly fine to be used on suede?? i for one woldnt use it on suede!??!

to be honest here, if your charging someone to clean their car then you ought to knwo enough about what your doing so the above mistake should never happen! (althogh i know it does as everyone seems to think its easy to start up in the cleaning world these days!!)

anyways, i didnt reply in this thread to start an argument, but this subject of apc's comes up so often and there is so many mixed views about! 
end of the day as i said in my previous post, use what your happy with and what you get results with, be it megs of daisy, it doesnt matter! as long as you get the results you require then its all good! 
for me, i get perfectly fine results from daisy! and as said, have used lord knows how many apc's over the years!

another place to look for good chemicals especially a good apc is Starbrite, theirs is called Gp500, and from the guys i chat to its getting very good reviews! quite a lot of gear too worth having a nose if you have a local rep! (www.starbrite.co.uk)


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## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

> Apc is a little differnt to kitchen work top cleaner though isnt it! which is effectively what your suggesting it is??? brisk is a completely different product! in a different range so why your comparing it i dont know!! brisk is an interior cleaning product and nothing more! its not a apc in any way shape of form! however, it can leave a really cool 80's retro glowing hands style under UV lighting!
> i absolutely agree that an interior specific product will be far better for interior plastics, thats not the point though! a car shampoo is better for washing the car, yet people still use apc for sections!! catch my drift here???
> at the end of the day, an all purpose cleaner is just that! a product that can be used on a multitude of applications, be that cleaning your hall way carpet, your kitchen tiles, your bathroom, your windows, your car interior, engine bay etc. etc.! it is designed purely as its name dictates! and i am sure Megs when thye made their version of apc had the same thoughts in mind! rather than just restrict it to purely vehicular useage!
> 
> ...


Brisk is an all purpose interior cleaner because it will clean any interior surface and therefore it is the same as Meguiars APC.

The point that I keep making is that products like Meguiars 'APC' and for example Flash APC are completely different products! One is designed and tested to work on upholstery (car upholstery or any other) and one simply isn't.

It's undeniable that you are better off using a product designed and tested for interiors than one that isn't.

To say that you don't want to argue about this is just avoiding the debate because you have no concrete reasoning and you just keep widening the goal posts by saying things like "I wouldn't use it on x,y,z, so it's ok", which quite frankly contradicts your argument in many ways.

You also keep relentlessly driving home the message that APC's all clean the same but that is no good to someone who has damaged their upholstery or whatever through using a product that was not intended for that use.

Perhaps you have also forgotten that not everyone has as much experience as people like us and therefore mistakes will start happening, I'm simply pointing out the dangers of over generalisation :thumb:

As I said before I respect your opinions in general and your no-nonsense style usually makes a lot of sense on this forum  But on this occasion I simply cannot agree with you.

PS - Perhaps it would be worth compiling some kind of sticky guide to APCs? It could contain the differences between general APCs and interior ones, what to use it on, what not to, what general dilutions etc?

I'm sure something like that would be highly beneficial to large numbers of people on this forum.


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Not another Daisy thread!!
Im not being drawn into arguements.I shall just say Ive used Daisy quite awhile now and it works fine,Its good for removing old tyre dressings,crap off carpets and floor mats (not tried it on seats though as I use an upholstery shampoo),got rid of some marks on my old mans Mazdas headlining,good on arches with a scrubbing brush.Its been used on my cars interior plastics (albeit at a fairly low dilution) for two years now and none of them are discoloured or damaged.Works fine on the green gunk that collects on cars nooks and crannies too.
I wont mention I use a Tesco paint brush for door jambs etc though incase someone says Harris ones are better!


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## wyliss (Feb 9, 2007)

RoverIain said:


> Not another Daisy thread!!
> Im not being drawn into arguements.I shall just say Ive used Daisy quite awhile now and it works fine,Its good for removing old tyre dressings,crap off carpets and floor mats (not tried it on seats though as I use an upholstery shampoo),got rid of some marks on my old mans Mazdas headlining,good on arches with a scrubbing brush.Its been used on my cars interior plastics (albeit at a fairly low dilution) for two years now and none of them are discoloured or damaged.Works fine on the green gunk that collects on cars nooks and crannies too.
> I wont mention I use a Tesco paint brush for door jambs etc though incase someone says Harris ones are better!


Actually Hamilton & Purdy are better than Harris....:lol:


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## THE CHAMP (Aug 1, 2008)

isherdholi said:


> Well said that man! :thumb:


I will second that! Keep it clean but keep it cheap:thumb:


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

dibbs26 said:


> Actually Hamilton & Purdy are better than Harris....:lol:


No no no you need a megs brush because using a non car brush on a car will cause all the paint to be removed!:wall::lol:


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## ALANSHR (Jun 29, 2007)

RoverIain said:


> Not another Daisy thread!!
> Im not being drawn into arguements.I shall just say Ive used Daisy quite awhile now and it works fine,Its good for removing old tyre dressings,crap off carpets and floor mats (not tried it on seats though as I use an upholstery shampoo),got rid of some marks on my old mans Mazdas headlining,good on arches with a scrubbing brush.Its been used on my cars interior plastics (albeit at a fairly low dilution) for two years now and none of them are discoloured or damaged.Works fine on the green gunk that collects on cars nooks and crannies too.
> I wont mention I use a Tesco paint brush for door jambs etc though incase someone says Harris ones are better!


agreed, far too sensitive, getting all wired about a cleaner but I do think B&Q brushes with insulation tape wraps are better than tesco:thumb:


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## ALANSHR (Jun 29, 2007)

gt5500 said:


> No no no you need a megs brush because using a non car brush on a car will cause all the paint to be removed!:wall::lol:


lmfao


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## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

> No no no you need a megs brush because using a non car brush on a car will cause all the paint to be removed!


That's just childish, if you bothered to read this thread properly you would realise the issue hasn't got anything to do with brand or cost. 

At the end of the day if people want to ignore manufacturers warnings then that's up to them :thumb:


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## nick the fish (Apr 9, 2007)

Daisy is fine!!

i trust Timmo implicitly

BUT - some people are not happy until they have paid an arm/leg/left nut for a designer 'detailing' product

the 'designer' car APC's carry no warranty so are no better than Daisy etc - they have the ultimate get out clause 'before use check on an inconspicuous area' - that avoids any liability claims!

companies source these and many other products from chemical manufacturers - to give it a 'company' identity they are offered dyes etc so they 'look' different

but the product is the same


one company i know produces the same 'product' for different retailers - its all the same

eg

a) Monday - M and S

b) Tuesday - Tesco

c) Wednesday - Harrods - TRUE

d) Thursday - Sainsbury

e) spare capacity


eaxactly the same product just different packing


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

dominic84 said:


> That's just childish, if you bothered to read this thread properly you would realise the issue hasn't got anything to do with brand or cost.


I have read the whole thread actually, and I think Nick has a good point even the products which apparently are designed for this still have the warning that you must test it first. This just tells me that there is no such thing as a true all purpose cleaner, how could there be?. It also tells me that if you want to use daisy then test it somewhere inconspicuous first and if there is no negative effects then use it, you would have to do the same with the meg's anwyay.


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## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

> one company i know produces the same 'product' for different retailers - its all the same
> 
> eg
> 
> ...


I agree that's true but it doesn't change anything.

I made a simple point to air my concerns at the start of this thread:

Not all APC's are the same in terms of compatibility, some are safe to be used on upholstery and some by the manufacturers own recommendation may not be - so you should be careful using it.

This causes me concern because people often pose questions such as "my leather is dirty, how do I clean it?" or "my seats are dirty how to I clean them" and quite often the answer is "use APC".

This could lead to someone using an APC which ends up being totally inappropriate, it may not, but by generalising there is that risk.

Through testing it has been found that Daisy is safe to use but what if I use Tesco Value APC? It says 'do not to use on upholstery' but I can ignore that right? So what dilution shall I use? 10:1 is common - shall I use that? Who knows? quite frankly, it might be fine, it might not - but I do know there is substantially less risk when using a product that is known to be safe either through forum testing, manufacturers testing etc

Do you now see what I am saying?


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## nick the fish (Apr 9, 2007)

i think it boils down to common sense? - is that too much to ask?


if it says do not use on upholstery that says enough?

i have just come off the phone to a main dealer of a 'prestige' marque who told me who makes their range of car care products

they are all the same BUT if it has say Porsche (not the company i spoke to btw) on the label you pay say £15 per bottle

BUT if you use it in accordance with the instructions you MAY have a legal claim if anything goes wrong - BUT again they ALL say first test on an inconspicuous area

so back to square one!!


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## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

> i think it boils down to common sense? - is that too much to ask?
> 
> if it says do not use on upholstery that says enough?


But if all APCs are the same then if one works on upholstery then they all work on upholstery right? Because they're all the same?

You can't have it both ways.

Do you not see how generalising could lead to problems?


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## nick the fish (Apr 9, 2007)

dominic84 said:


> But if all APCs are the same then if one works on upholstery then they all work on upholstery right? Because they're all the same?
> 
> You can't have it both ways.
> 
> Do you not see how generalising could lead to problems?


they ALL say - words to the effect - test on an inconspicuous area!

just the same as the 'leather experts' who cover their ass with a get out clause?


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## Neil_M (Apr 5, 2007)

Just to add my 2p to the thread for anyone reading it.

I have used the Sainsburys APC. It has been used in various forms of dillution for use on my plastic arches. As you apply it does give off a citrus scent.

However after rinsing the arch, applying the apc, working it in then rinising, there is always a residue left. Does anyone else find this?

Im now hoping to try something different and keep the apc for something other than the plastic arches.

I would look at Megs APC and follow it with all Season Dressing also by Megs, these were products used by Dave KG in his arch cleaning guide.

Another thought, why use APC for arches over degreaser? I note (for example) the megs degreaser notes it does not leave any white streaks or residue!


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## cheezemonkhai (Jan 29, 2007)

dixon75 said:


> Daisy works well on the kitchen floor!! and it is cheap, but I dont think i'd use it on the car. - imo


Why not, I don't know how similar it is to stardrops but the ingredients list in stardrops is very very similar to one of the hazard sheets for a popular manufactures.

Stardrops has worked wonders on the car for me, including the wheels and you dilute it to suit your needs.

At the end of the day how is the Megs or other branded stuff any different? I've even used a bulk pack 5L of Mr Muscle APC on a car before and it did a great job at cleaning off the old wax (made very strong) and cleaning the wheels.

APC is pretty much APC it's just the dilution that affects it's uses IMHO.


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## Neil_M (Apr 5, 2007)

The APC's I have direct use of are literally just a basic cleaner with some fragrance. I dont agree that they must all be the same though.


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## cheezemonkhai (Jan 29, 2007)

Neil_M said:


> The APC's I have direct use of are literally just a basic cleaner with some fragrance. I dont agree that they must all be the same though.


Ok I'll agree they might not all be the same, but if you look at the hazard sheets for a fair few you will find they all contain the same statements.

That can't be pure co-incidence.


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## 3dr (Mar 1, 2008)

all APC's are obviously not the same otherwise there wouldn't be threads like this, i for one have tried Daisy with an open mind and tbh it's utter toss! it's one of those mental things, you kid yourself into it actually works, it doesn't work any better than a fairy liquid solution, AS G101 on the other hand is the god of ALL APC's, it's very good, it's very cheap for the amount you get and the dilution rate iirc some people use daisy at 4:1? i use G101 at 10-20:1, you pays your money...... i have used APC's since they were degreasers! :lol: and G101 is by far the best :thumb:


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## Fat Audi 80 (Nov 8, 2006)

3dr said:


> all APC's are obviously not the same otherwise there wouldn't be threads like this, i for one have tried Daisy with an open mind and tbh it's utter toss! it's one of those mental things, you kid yourself into it actually works, it doesn't work any better than a fairy liquid solution, AS G101 on the other hand is the god of ALL APC's, it's very good, it's very cheap for the amount you get and the dilution rate iirc some people use daisy at 4:1? i use G101 at 10-20:1, you pays your money...... i have used APC's since they were degreasers! :lol: and G101 is by far the best :thumb:


Exactly!

I personally use Megs APC, and have NOT tried "Daisy". But I would guess that at 99p for a litre for Daisy vs £3 per litre, (rough prices before you flame me) the Megs is going to be better. Plus you can dilute Megs APC 10:1 and it still works properly 

Also I know I can use Megs APC ALL over a customers' car, inside and out with confidence and not have any problems....

That is enough for me.

Cheers,

Steve.


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Cant comment on this product as every time i try and get some use guys have beat me to it again and cleared the shelves...Stop being greedy and leave some for me PLEASE..:wall:


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## Neil_M (Apr 5, 2007)

I would just buy the autosmart or megs stuff to be honest.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

I just use Daisy if available or Morrisons APC just for the door shuts and general boot spare wheel area and general engine cleaning duties.

I use my Megs APC inside the car and am confident using it on a customers upholstery, I wouldnt use Daisy on a customers upholstery though.


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## 3dr (Mar 1, 2008)

i use g101 at 20:1 as a pre wash and have no probs at all, no staining etc, and as a general wheel cleaner at 10:1, i also use it for heavily soiled interiors to as 20:1, i use it at 10:1 for engines, can't ever see me using daisy at anywhere near those rates, the ONLY thing i've got bad to say about G101 is the smell! it's not very interior friend;y so i usually follow up with a DI water rinse and an application of Brisk or Woolite (Woolite is the only non "car" product i would recommend for car use! ), seems long winded but i would only use G101 when it is quite litterally black, Brisk/Woolite will do fine otherwise , Household cleaners for Houses, Car cleaning products for Cars, end of.


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## Neil_M (Apr 5, 2007)

Thanks for the reply 3dr.

Any idea on dilution ratio for arches?


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## 3dr (Mar 1, 2008)

i'd use it at 10:1


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## Neil_M (Apr 5, 2007)

Cheers!


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