# The Re-bottlers



## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

So as discussed in a recent thread. 

Who re bottles? 

And who doesn't?


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## leeandfay (May 2, 2017)




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## st33ly (Aug 29, 2010)

Would really like to know about who does who doesn’t.


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## stonejedi (Feb 2, 2008)

Plenty Have,Do and Will in the future the end.SJ.


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

From my research so far 

Autoglym - self bottle 
Car chem - self bottle 
AMMO- self bottle 

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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

stonejedi said:


> Plenty Have,Do and Will in the future the end.SJ.


Fun to speculate though isn't it?

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## stonejedi (Feb 2, 2008)

Eturty said:


> Fun to speculate though isn't it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


It's a mighty *"BIG"* can of worms but if you want to be the one who opens it be my guess.SJ.


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## J306TD (May 19, 2008)

Eturty said:


> From my research so far
> 
> Autoglym - self bottle
> Car chem - self bottle
> ...


Auto Smart 
Dodo Juice
Meguirs

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## leeandfay (May 2, 2017)

Pretty sure Jay from Bouncers does his own manufacturing and he is one of the straightest talking none BS blokes I've met and if he says he made it - HE MADE IT know what I mean lol
Quite possibly one of the nicest blokes in the industry in person as well. Really top bloke !


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## Fatboy40 (Apr 15, 2013)

Well, there's a business well liked here that many recommend, not a big business with a long history, that sells a high strength (PH) snow foam for £12 for 1L.

However, their supplier / manufacturing partner sells 5L of it for just over £19.


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## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

J306TD said:


> Auto Smart
> Dodo Juice
> Meguirs
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


Assuming you mean don't re bottle?

But yeah interesting thread


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## leeandfay (May 2, 2017)

Fatboy40 said:


> Well, there's a business well liked here that many recommend, not a big business with a long history, that sells a high strength (PH) snow foam for £12 for 1L.
> 
> However, their supplier / manufacturing partner sells 5L of it for just over £19.


Thats like when someone says "I've got something to tell you" You say "what, go on im excited now"

They say "nah, doesn't matter" :doublesho

:lol:


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Quite often can be easily determined by the statements used by the business.

Those that manufacture often state it.

Those that don't often use such phrases as "we develop" or "we created" or "all products handmade in the uk" (but does not say by who )

There is a place for all. No shame in either.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

Alot of companies don't release msds either or have correct h&s labels on bottles


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## J306TD (May 19, 2008)

Imprezaworks said:


> Assuming you mean don't re bottle?
> 
> But yeah interesting thread


Apologies yes they develop and self bottle

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## neil b (Aug 30, 2006)

You get a lot of company’s only last maybe 6 months to a year then they fold as the market is vast with new company’s coming on the go all the time with there own version of products aka rebottled versions of already rebottled versions that’s already out there to buy , it just goes on and on and on like a broken record .


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## Lexus-is250 (Feb 4, 2017)

Wowo's make their own to my knowledge 

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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

Pretty sure AF make their own stuff as do bilt hamber if course 

And car chem make there own sauce too

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## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

Thought af didn't?!?


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

Imprezaworks said:


> Thought af didn't?!?


Oh I'm not sure dude, I was always under the impression they did?

There definitely a few small brands who don't make their own stuff.

Its totally fine if you don't manufacturer you own stuff by the way, I'm just a bloke on forum what the hell do i know.


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## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

I love cleaning the car, buying the 'in' stuff, bits of old. I'm under no impression most of the time it's not a new found product. Maybe just tweaked slightly.


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

I think there's one obvious company who do...

Over the years I believe I've seen 1 range of products be rebranded at least 3 times in 5years??

They are doing the rounds at the moment too 

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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

Pretty sure Gyeon make their own stuff. 

However i think most ceramic coatings come from wither China or Korea


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

Sicskate said:


> I think there's one obvious company who do...
> 
> Over the years I believe I've seen 1 range of products be rebranded at least 3 times in 5years??
> 
> ...


Go on... who is it?


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## leeandfay (May 2, 2017)

I think we would have to be careful in all honesty and putting mr sensible cap on, what is written here as it could be deemed libel.
Without knowing the facts backed up by evidence and doing something that could harm the business or this forum legally would be a stupid move.

Im no moderator but I am a fan of the forum not being sued lol


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

True, 

Don't wanna point fingers where they shouldn't. 

Perhaps we should steer it to those who don't re bottle.


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

I'm not saying any current names, but take a look at this company, they didn't do very well so shut down...









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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

I think without Actual Facts its all "hearsay" 

There are longterm establish businesses /companies that we know make their own stuff like /autoglym/labocosmetica/- on a factory visit to AG /LABO we saw raw materials , a Laboratory , bottling, a R+D dept etc.

To be able to actually say who does and doesn't rebottle without facts could be deemed libelous and an attack on the company something DW does not want to be a part of.


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

Lol this was a bad idea


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Eturty said:


> Lol this was a bad idea


It was! :lol:

And Whizzer is watching closely! 

Alan W


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

To be fair, most of the information is already available if you know where to look.

Companies house is a good start.

I’m still waiting to be sued off a rebrand company from comments on here (all true)

I laughed at their stupid message threat to me and replied by sending a picture of their private home from google street view.

Just letting them know I knew far more about them than they did about me. 

As I say... most of it is all public domain, it’s been done to death and I’m not saying any more.

:thumb:


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## The happy goat (Jun 26, 2019)

Really does it matter? Just use what you want if it’s the same but cheaper then happy days.


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

How about the opposite?

Companies that definitely manufacture their own products such as the few already mentioned.

Happily admit that as a sort of knock on from the current situation I'm looking to give more support local businesses.

Andy.


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## Taxboy (Aug 23, 2006)

It also depends on what you define as rebottling e.g. how far do you have to go to make a bespoke product ? If I pick an existing product from a supplier but have it made with a different colour and fragrance is that rebottling ? How about taking an off the shelf and after discussion with the chemist tweaking it with a bit more solvent so it flashes off a bit quicker than the original etc etc

I have to say if rebottling goes on with a price hike what it shows is the supplier has stronger marketing skills than the manufacturer. All business have strengths not just in the area of manufacturing, although if you design from a blank sheet if paper this is often the unique selling proposition

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## great gonzo (Nov 4, 2010)

I couldn’t be bothered either way, makes no difference to me. 
I suppose the only thing that would change my mind is if I was paying way over the odds for a product that was rebottled 


Gonz.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

Alan W said:


> It was! :lol:
> 
> And Whizzer is watching closely!
> 
> Alan W


Oh we're watching alright


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## JoeyJoeJo (Jan 3, 2014)

There may also be manufacturers who are quite happy to only make and sell in 1000L containers and leave the bottling, marketing, retail to others, doesn't make the products bad or the approach bad. Farmers don't typically put milk in bottles. 
Huge part of this is also brand image, same product branded and marketed differently will appeal to different people, regardless of performance.


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## Derek Mc (Jun 27, 2006)

Lexus-is250 said:


> Wowo's make their own to my knowledge
> 
> Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk


I believe this too and have been told they created the formula for the new CS and, if you met Fraser, you'd appreciate that he does design and create the products.


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## Blue Al (Sep 13, 2015)

I'm not sure if this is a fair analogy 

Vw
Audi
Seat Then even rebottled again as Cupra
That's ignoring the cross fertization to porchse/Lamborghini 

And a whole industry built on bottled water at various price points 
which I suspect varies far less under analysis than any Car cleaning product


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## leeandfay (May 2, 2017)

Exactly that was my original point 

I could buy minimum 1000 litres of a shampoo that I instructed a chemical manufacturer to colour, scent, amount of lubricious vs suds, viscosity all to match the brand etc. Joe bloggs can’t and wouldn’t order 1000 litres but we could. That is technically rebottling but not buying 5 litres off a shelf and pouring off.

There’s a difference 

I’m just glad I’m out now and can buy what I want when I want without worry of someone moaning lol


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

Just for the record.

Bouncer's makes every one of its products themselves. Their own recipes, from scratch ingredients, their own MSDS, there own legal labeling blah, blah.

But. - In the big scheme of things, who actually really gives a hoot as to who makes what and why ? - No-one really cares unless its some kind of witch hunt. - Some products do require bigger machinery, which smaller companies don't have. - Rather than bear the cost, they will outsource it to be made for them. - Makes sense ?

What I can tell you is apart from waxes which are a different ideal - I don't think I have sold a liquid based product on the basis that its been handblended, etc. - Most users just seem to compare its cost.

It's quite hard sometimes to spend months R&D on something, launch it and for someone to immediate say and without them ever using/testing the product to say "Oh, is that like so and so that I can buy from Amazon for £3.50" ? " I won't buy yours as too expensive"

End of the day I guess does it really, really matter, and does it really, really affect your buying decision ? - If so you are in a very small percentile. 

Bouncer's = Keeping it Real since 2011  


Cheers

J


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

When I say our own MSDS - I mean using the correct legal CLP UK/EU legislation software. - The license to use that has a cost upwards of 7k + Annual licenses just to use it. - Not something a smaller brand would necessarily have the ££ for.


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

From my experience, I ordered a sample pack on a Group buy from here, all the samples were reasonable but not as good as my current line up. 

So I didn't bother with them again, I believe this was the same for many other members too. 

Then 6 months later another offer popped up from a different "new company" so I thought I'd give it a go, only to be sent the same products as before, but with different labels... Same font though and equally poor quality printing on the labels. 

Current day, there's a newish company doing the rounds, same font and similar labels... I could be wrong though?!?

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## piston_warrior (Jul 25, 2012)

Fatboy40 said:


> Well, there's a business well liked here that many recommend, not a big business with a long history, that sells a high strength (PH) snow foam for £12 for 1L.
> 
> However, their supplier / manufacturing partner sells 5L of it for just over £19.


Who's the manufacturer?


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## Jonnybbad (Jun 12, 2013)

There's so many popping up every week it's hard to keep a track of what's what so for me i stick to brands i know and have used before that are not rebottled

I have in the past bought from new companies running " one time offer " and been very disappointed and either ended up giving the stuff away or throwing it away


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Derek Mc said:


> I believe this too and have been told they created the formula for the new CS and, if you met Fraser, you'd appreciate that he does design and create the products.


I've been in the Wowo's premises with Fraser. All made in house without a shadow of a doubt.

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## piston_warrior (Jul 25, 2012)

If I was starting up a business tomorrow then buying chemicals from one of the main manufacturers would be my only option to get on my feet. As long as it’s marketed well, priced fairly and bolstered by fantastic customer service then I don’t really see the issue in “re-bottling”. 

But it’s annoying when you get companies that charge way over the odds for 500ml of product that I can buy elsewhere for much cheaper and have below average customer service, even face to face in their own shop. Especially when they mess up their DW Christmas sale, not respond to any of their customers emails and have a tantrum and take themselves off the forum - that really ****ed me off.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

piston_warrior said:


> If I was starting up a business tomorrow then buying chemicals from one of the main manufacturers would be my only option to get on my feet. As long as it's marketed well, priced fairly and bolstered by fantastic customer service then I don't really see the issue in "re-bottling".
> 
> But it's annoying when you get companies that charge way over the odds for 500ml of product that I can buy elsewhere for much cheaper and have below average customer service, even face to face in their own shop. Especially when they mess up their DW Christmas sale, not respond to any of their customers emails and have a tantrum and take themselves off the forum - that really ****ed me off.


Me too, never touched since. Not even been on their site.


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## Imprezaworks (May 20, 2013)

Who was this


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## Fatboy40 (Apr 15, 2013)

piston_warrior said:


> Who's the manufacturer?


I like posting and hanging out here so best not to say  (they only sell a very small range of products themselves, it's not how they make their money)

However, the manufacturer does sell two particular products that I want to buy one day and will probably post about them (a snow foam and a shampoo)...


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## Lexus-is250 (Feb 4, 2017)

Derek Mc said:


> I believe this too and have been told they created the formula for the new CS and, if you met Fraser, you'd appreciate that he does design and create the products.


I had a chat with him a few years ago at waxstock. Really nice fella. The few products I have tried of theirs are absolutely fantastic.

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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

Just gonna drop this here incase anyone wants to see what a detailing factory looks like


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## The happy goat (Jun 26, 2019)

Blue Al said:


> I'm not sure if this is a fair analogy
> 
> Vw
> Audi
> ...


You missed out Skoda, Bentley, Bugatti and Ducati


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## polt (Oct 18, 2011)

The_Bouncer said:


> When I say our own MSDS - I mean using the correct legal CLP UK/EU legislation software. - The license to use that has a cost upwards of 7k + Annual licenses just to use it. - Not something a smaller brand would necessarily have the ££ for.


I remember your original thread and tester pots until you found number 22😉, who knew it would develop so far....you exceeded from a play around to a great range of products. I even remember dodo juice helping you out. Pretty gutted I sold my "22" limited edition pot.

As for the need for this thread, I think alot of people here are review led by products. See the review, weigh up pros and cons then make a decision.

If anyone wants to start i this way and then develop further then good on them, because if they don't they will Fall behind those that do develop their own products.


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## angelw (Nov 25, 2009)

We research,manufacture and bottle on site.


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## ENDA (Apr 16, 2020)

I remember a huge kick up about a certain “premium” manufacturers leather products being rebranded with a 4X markup a few years ago


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Let's face it, if a product is good, you like a certain brand and you're happy with the price then fair enough really. 

It happens with everything I mean do Tesco have their own breakfast cereal plant or does another brand make their own brand stuff? 

From what I understand there's quite a lot of brands that are technically re-bottled from the likes of Car-Chem. I mean I could probably count 4-5 brands I'm aware of are from them, some of which have almost identical packaging but with different labels. 

As someone mentioned, detailing brands come and go regularly but if the products and the marketing are good they stay around.


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

None of it matters really, if I was starting a brand I'd rebottle as there's no other choice really. Why invest thousands when you can work with a company to produce what you want? I don't sew my own clothes for example. However just sticking a label of something and charging 3 times the price for something that is identical isn't great 

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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

It's the arguments about the products that amuse me - so and so is better than so and so. Really? Have you tried the second so and so? No, but trust me, first so and so is so good it has to be better! Likelihood is that both products are the same. Bless.


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## JU5T1N (Dec 7, 2019)

roscopervis said:


> It's the arguments about the products that amuse me - so and so is better than so and so. Really? Have you tried the second so and so? No, but trust me, first so and so is so good it has to be better! Likelihood is that both products are the same. Bless.


Very true because very likely both products are made from the same base chemicals.


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## bigkahunaburger (Jun 27, 2012)

When the market is saturated and you are bored of 'me too' brands that bring nothing to the table, it does get a little tiresome. Each to their own of course. It just seems odd that when so many brands appear and disappear within no time, that they decide to come to market without something new to offer. 

There is a vast choice of products to suit everyone but I do like to support the people that actually make the products and produce them here in the UK where possible. That doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed Zymol and Swissvax but it is great to buy from smaller UK based producers. Mostly it is because I am getting a superior product, at a fair price, and the people that made it can advise you how to use it. 

ODK and Bouncer's have had a lot of orders from me for various pots of waxes of other chemicals and the products have always delivered. I have also bought a lot from Autoglym, Bilt Hamber, Angelwax and Wowos. I will continue to buy from all of them because I have found that they offer the best overall products for me. It is also great to support UK businesses and supporters of the forum too.


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## SmudgerEBT (Sep 24, 2015)

roscopervis said:


> It's the arguments about the products that amuse me - so and so is better than so and so. Really? Have you tried the second so and so? No, but trust me, first so and so is so good it has to be better! Likelihood is that both products are the same. Bless.


This does amuse me as well.

Have seen people saying a certain product was better than another product.

However, knowing who made it, I know it is the same product, just a different name.

And don't forget, within all this, when you are buying from a company to sell on, you have a choice of budget.

Most go for the cheapest chemical mix they can, to max the profit.

But this is also because the market (as such) won't pay for the premium chemicals to be used, as this will cost the end user more.

Which is a pity, because the chemical company I know, I would prefer to spend the extra for the premium chemical (you actually either use less, its less harmful to you and the car, so can make more sense in the long run, well for me) but no re-sellers use the premium side of it.


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## Taxboy (Aug 23, 2006)

SmudgerEBT said:


> This does amuse me as well.
> 
> Have seen people saying a certain product was better than another product.
> 
> ...


Do you think that's because unless you have an established brand you need a headline grabber to get attention?

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## SmudgerEBT (Sep 24, 2015)

Taxboy said:


> Do you think that's because unless you have an established brand you need a headline grabber to get attention?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


You need to go with the cheap sales on ebay to get your name out, some friendly "detailers" to shout how good your products are across facebook/forum etc or splash the cash on ad's.

We are fickle and like the nice pics and cheap prices.

(And one way to get the brand out is to send all the youtube channels some freebies to "test" and off you go. The problem with that is very few do an actual "test" very few say they have been given freebies (and as such its near a paid advert) and even fewer give an honest review))

But this is taking away from the thread.

A business is to make money, not be nice, so rebottle away, just make sure you change the name on the msds after. :lol:


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## mikerd4 (Oct 27, 2006)

My mate runs a small micro brewery, he worked hard on it and had built a good reputation and following. He built up his capacity but decided to not use it completey. This meant he had spare capacity and started brewing for some of his rivals, it was their recipe and brew just in his brewery as although a small operator he had a bigger production capacity. This is fairly common in industry. Not to mention brands that market themselves at a certain price point but rather than dilute the brand and release cheaper options they create sub brands or even new companies (Think Abercrombie and Hollister for example).


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