# Swirl marks after polishing with 3M



## mauro3 (Aug 13, 2011)

I had a lot of swirl marks after polishing my black BMW. I also noticed that some swirl caused by washing has not gone. As i never before polish any car i have done some mistake. Reading the articles on this forum now i know that i polished the car:
- for too short time and worked on larger surface
- insted to use blue 3M pad for Ultrafina polish i used velcro pad
- passed directly from fastcut to ultrafina without using extrafine polish



Those pictures are showing it, but the car have been washed few days ago

Can I remove these swirls with using only ultrafina and blue pad or i should repeat the whole process again using fastcut polish? 
I don't have extrafine polish should i buy it, or there is no need to us it between fastcut and ultrafina process?


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## Mgs Detail (Jul 12, 2010)

There the problem, factcut to ultra is not going to work well hence the reason they have extrafine in the middle. Your best bet is to get extrafine and leave fastcut alone.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

There are a lot of factors here... FastCut, not worked well, will leave quite severe marring that Ultrafina SE will then not be able to remove, you need to work FastCut more effectively so it leaves less severe marring, then you can on some paints (not all) use Ultrafina SE to refine (so long as the set is long enough, to ensure the abrasives break down and you do not accidentally fill the marks).

Honestly, looking at the pictures there, it looks not like machine marring but instead it looks like swirls that have not been removed by your cutting stage. This is likely down to too large a work area and too short a work time. I would look at ExtraFine first, as suggested above, worked on small set sizes for a long work time of around 3 - 5 minutes (this video will give you an idea of the typical set: start slow, build to working speed and then refine at slower speeds...):






If this does not work, and the marks are not removed, then try Fast Cut on a cutting pad if you need more bite, set similar to the following where you start slow and build to a working speed and work until defects removed or residue has gone clear and product starts to dust lightly...






Then follow with Ultrafina SE, or Extrafine then Ultrafina SE as required... When you are refining, I would recommend a long set similar to the following (which is done for Menz Final Finish but the idea is the same) with a lot of time spent at the slower speeds to really refine the finish:


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## mauro3 (Aug 13, 2011)

Thank you! This helps me a lot :driver:
The circular swirls are made by polishing, the horizontal by washing as i always wash and dry with linear motions...
I'll try to repeat whole process following your advice.


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## planktom (Jun 15, 2011)

I use 3M too but even here,where you have to buy another polish, I would rather rely on Scholl S17+ (available in 250ml !)
eventually (if not worked enough) followed by a set with 3M ultrafina
or at least a set with S17+ on a blue 3M wafflepad.
S17+´s got enough bite to get rid of the swirls/marks and it diminishes really fast so you wouldn´t produce more swirls and its possible too finishing even with the same polish on a soft pad :thumb:
...and work at your washing procedure


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## mauro3 (Aug 13, 2011)

I must admit that i'm afraid to damage the paint if i polished one small area for 3 to 5 minutes


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## hotwaxxx (Jul 12, 2007)

Definitely looks like you have not removed the original swirls.

Dave KG's videos above are superb and will give you an idea of how long you sometimes need to work polishes to achieve results.

Personally, you can work larger areas at a time compared to what Dave KG did above but the principle is the same - allow time for the polish to fully breakdown and keep the machine moving constantly. Don't feel the need to work an area slowly - keep the machine moving and keep it on the go and you won't have to be afraid of burnthrough. Burnthrough will only occur if you work an area too slowly allowing extreme heat buildup.

Also, as said above, try Extra Fine Compound on a polish pad and if you still need a bit more cut, simply try using a compound pad. Fastcut is only an extreme polish which should only really be used if you are having no effect on swirls with Extra Fine Compound. As a result of using Fastcut, you will definitely have a level of marring and hologramming on the paintwork which can be removed by Ultrafina if worked for a very long time (upto 5-8 minutes may be needed).

An alternative is to use Fastcut or Extra Fine Compound with a blob of Ultrafina on the pad. This, in my experience, will reduce marring and hologramming very slightly and will also allow you further work time with Fastcut.

Hope that helps a little.


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## shine247 (Mar 1, 2010)

Dave KG said:


> There are a lot of factors here...


From the above post, there are some nice links to other vids as well once on Youtube. Will be very useful for novices and some with a little more experience.:thumb:


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## mauro3 (Aug 13, 2011)

hotwaxxx said:


> Definitely looks like you have not removed the original swirls.


No i'm 100% sure that this swirls are caused by polishing with fastcut :wall:. 
Before of that i have only few swirls caused by washing and claying. 
The other big problem is that i must often cover the car with carcover to avoid overspray. I'm thinking to go with Gtechniq C1 to further protect the cars paint, but before of that i should reach the polishing perfection. I don't think that C1 can cover swirls


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## hotwaxxx (Jul 12, 2007)

mauro3 said:


> No i'm 100% sure that this swirls are caused by polishing with fastcut :wall:.
> Before of that i have only few swirls caused by washing and claying.
> The other big problem is that i must often cover the car with carcover to avoid overspray. I'm thinking to go with Gtechniq C1 to further protect the cars paint, but before of that i should reach the polishing perfection. I don't think that C1 can cover swirls


There's absolutely no benefit to 'cover' the swirls as the product tends to wash away after 3-4 washes and the swirls reappear. Its a quick fix.

You are probably right where the Fastcut has created its own swirls. Its an abrasive polish which needs to be worked down to remove swirls. As it works away, it will create its own swirls during the process. Therefore, it is very important to breakdown the polish completely - which does mean spending time on polishing. You also will be left with micromarring/hologramming which in itself needs to be removed with a final finish polish (Ultrafina/85RD etc).

Have another go but try using something less abrasive than Fastcut and work the area for a longer period (allowing the polish to do the cut process) - I'm sure you'll be surprised with the outcome that a less abrasive polished worked longer will give you.


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## mauro3 (Aug 13, 2011)

One of the problem is that when i went to shop and ask to buy the minimum abrasive polish they sold me fastcut. I sterted to polish and all seems to go ok, but when i drove the car directly to sunlight, i saw that there is a mess. After that i bought ultrafina in other shop and tryed to resolve the problem, but only the holograms disappeared.


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## hotwaxxx (Jul 12, 2007)

OK.

If you only have Fastcut and Ultrafina then try using Fastcut again but this time put a bit of Ultrafina on the pad as well. Four blobs of Fastcut and one blob of Ultrafina on the same pad. 

Then work the polish for around 8 minutes - keep the machine moving and then when you finish use a different pad and only use Ultrafina and work for around 5 minutes. Try that mate.


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## mauro3 (Aug 13, 2011)

hotwaxxx said:


> OK.
> 
> If you only have Fastcut and Ultrafina then try using Fastcut again but this time put a bit of Ultrafina on the pad as well. Four blobs of Fastcut and one blob of Ultrafina on the same pad.
> 
> Then work the polish for around 8 minutes - keep the machine moving and then when you finish use a different pad and only use Ultrafina and work for around 5 minutes. Try that mate.


Thank you very much, i'll try on a small area as soon as i have some time, maybe next week, i'll keep you updated :buffer:


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