# 30k hot hatch dreaming



## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

Pie in the in the sky thinking so only read on if youre as bored as me!

what hot hatch would people buy if they had 20-30k to spend?

the Golf is running great and only lost a couple of grand in 5 years (bought for £9k in 2015)

but now its a 13 yr car. so being thinking what i cld replace it with, something similar but newer that will hold its value.

keep getting drawn to a Focus rs mk3 - about £22-3k for a post NG issue car. even the 58 plate ones are fetching 18k so it wont lose much value!

but the audi RS3 can be had for similar and is an audi. not a ford :-/

theres also the AMGs, Type R's and Megane R.

for me its the ford, but wld have to sell the Golf - which will go up in value............some day! and the 205 that i havnt driven anywhere yet.

so if youve got this far what do u think is best!?


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## Guest (May 19, 2020)

Get the RS3. Few grand on a tune, and not much on the road will keep up with you.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Depends if you want speed, fun, ability or badge - different cars offer different things.

I'd be looking at an i30N because it seems to be a lot of fun to drive, is quick enough and quite frankly don't care about the badge


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

What about a the new mini GP?


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

I had a 308GTi 270 thay was around that price, comfy, flippin quick but not much rear leg room behind me and i'm a short ****.
Flippin quick though.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

In a similar predicament - have an S3 at the moment, tempted to get one of the new shape Merc A35s which can be found for around 30k. Interior unrivalled on any sub 50k cars, looks and drives well. You'll get more car (and noise) for your money buying slightly older of course.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Focus RS would be top of my list, i30N would be there too. I'd take a Leon Cupra over any VW or Audi, although if you don't need the space F Types, Aston Vantage and Ford Mustangs are all within reach, as are M3's. There are a lot of nice cars out there for 30k.


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

New Leon Cupra ?


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Does it have to be a hot hatch? I mean depending on how fussed you are by running costs and/or warranties, there’s some nice V8s around and they’re not leggy rough examples either.


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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

SteveTDCi said:


> *Focus RS would be top of my list, i30N would be there too*. I'd take a Leon Cupra over any VW or Audi, although if you don't need the space F Types, Aston Vantage and Ford Mustangs are all within reach, as are M3's. There are a lot of nice cars out there for 30k.


second person to mention the i30N but against the RS the residual value wold be shocking i assume?

ive had a taste of depreciation free(ish) motoring in the R32 and wldnt want to bomb thousands a year.

by comparison my mate bought a flash evoque for £21k 3.5 yrs ago and just had it written off at £11k. and to be fair that seems 'average depreciation'

not for me up in yorkshire. you can still buy houses round my end for that :lol:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

I30N is great car and prices have been holding up well up to a few months back if you bought with reasonable discount


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

I'd pay my mortgage off and keep my GT86.
Is that an option?


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

You are going to struggle to avoid depreciation, if you want to try and avoid it then the Mk2 or 3 Focus would be the safest bet. Or a Mini GP2 will hold its money well.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I wouldn't buy a hot hatch. I've gone off of them and I am yet to see one which really turns my head any more.

10-12K would get me a nice cared for STI, maybe one of the special editions. Couple of grand to get the clutch done and some mods and that would do me. Would be up together but not so pretty I would be adverse to thrashing it.

If it's 30K I'd go out and buy a real car, something with at least 6 cylinders, probably rear drive and properly school-boy.

I will never understand paying big money for these modern hot hatches. They are dull as fudge. The MK2 or MK3 Focus? Dull as dishwater.


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

I woud go for clean low mileage mk2 focus rs, these things are going up in price. Future classic. The mk3 still seems to be dropping but will settle and hopefully rise in the future as ford say they wont be making a new RS

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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

pt1 said:


> I woud go for clean low mileage mk2 focus rs, these things are going up in price. Future classic. The mk3 still seems to be dropping but will settle and hopefully rise in the future as ford say they wont be making a new RS
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


Ever since I remember Ford say there won't be another RS. After a couple of years pushing ST sales along pops another RS.

There's just too many people tucking away RS cars hoping they will become valuable. There must be around 4000-4500 MK2 and even more MK3. They just aren't rare.

The car market is going to take a significant hit after Coronavirus. I'd expect garage toys that are in plentiful supply will see their values hit worst.


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## Nick-ST (Mar 4, 2013)

Is avoiding depreciation the biggest thing? 

If so it would have to either be a Ford RS model or some very limited run car. (Not a Corsa "limited" edition) :lol:

Megane Trophy R holds the money well I believe. Other than that I am really not sure. Pretty much all hot hatches depreciate like a stone because they are common as dog  in this country!

Be bold. Get a V8 Mustang. Running costs would probably be on par with the R32!


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## Blue Al (Sep 13, 2015)

Car values are like houses, the real value in my opinion is in it being used.
Any growth in value is often only on paper and is only cash in your hand when you downsize or get something worse.
Not many many people would buy a 4 bed house then live in a tent in the back garden, Poor analogy I know.

Yet you hear or read about so many garage queens on various forums looking to make a killing in 20years time, I sometimes wonder what they do for fun in the meantime...
This side of a lottery win if I cannot drive it, I wouldn’t buy it.


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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

If you want to limit depreciation then a £20k+ car is not the answer.
I'd personally be looking for a proper sports car for that money, not a turbo'd eurobox.
I'd struggle to look past the F-type R for performance per £.

Happy shopping.

Cheers,

Chris


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## grunty-motor (Aug 11, 2016)

I have the MK3 Focus RS and think its a great car - very engaging to drive. Not the outright fastest out there (RS3/Audi/etc) but with a manual box and trick AWD system its is FUN! You can tune them cheaply to about 400hp and after that it gets expensive.

I had a MK2 before that it was also a good car, but with FWD has its limitiations.....also, over 10yr old now and while they sound fantastic and still have awesome road prescence, they are showing their age inside.

alternative maybe a m140 - RWD limitation but easy to tune +100hp


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

grunty-motor said:


> I have the MK3 Focus RS and think its a great car - very engaging to drive. Not the outright fastest out there (RS3/Audi/etc) but with a manual box and trick AWD system its is FUN! You can tune them cheaply to about 400hp and after that it gets expensive.
> 
> I had a MK2 before that it was also a good car, but with FWD has its limitiations.....also, over 10yr old now and while they sound fantastic and still have awesome road prescence, they are showing their age inside.
> 
> alternative maybe a m140 - RWD limitation but easy to tune +100hp


RWD limitation? When does RWD ever become a limitation? :lol: It's the best drive.

The M140i does need an LSD and the suspension sorted to be a better driver's car. Once you start spending that money you may as well buy the M2. The M140i will be subject to far higher depreciation.


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

Kerr said:


> Ever since I remember Ford say there won't be another RS. After a couple of years pushing ST sales along pops another RS.
> 
> There's just too many people tucking away RS cars hoping they will become valuable. There must be around 4000-4500 MK2 and even more MK3. They just aren't rare.
> 
> The car market is going to take a significant hit after Coronavirus. I'd expect garage toys that are in plentiful supply will see their values hit worst.


I have noticed more hypercars coming up for sale since covid19
RS fords have always kept there values, they may take a bit of a hit but not as much as some. i dont think you will get people paying £60k for a rs turbo for a while though

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## grunty-motor (Aug 11, 2016)

Kerr said:


> RWD limitation? When does RWD ever become a limitation?  It's the best drive.
> 
> The M140i does need an LSD and the suspension sorted to be a better driver's car. Once you start spending that money you may as well buy the M2. The M140i will be subject to far higher depreciation.


Maybe that wasn't the best word to use......

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## Nick-ST (Mar 4, 2013)

grunty-motor said:


> I have the MK3 Focus RS and think its a great car - very engaging to drive. Not the outright fastest out there (RS3/Audi/etc) but with a manual box and trick AWD system its is FUN! You can tune them cheaply to about 400hp and after that it gets expensive.
> 
> I had a MK2 before that it was also a good car, but with FWD has its limitiations.....also, over 10yr old now and while they sound fantastic and still have awesome road prescence, they are showing their age inside.
> 
> alternative maybe a m140 - RWD limitation but easy to tune +100hp


Couldn't agree more re the MK2 RS. A close friend has one that he has tuned to 440bhp with more than that in torque. Fabulous looking and sounding car but my word that interior feels ancient these days! I can't believe his/some don't even have bluetooth!


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

I am obviously very biased here but for up to the 30k mark there is no other hatch I would have than the A45 old model. New model A35 would be considered as well. It's all personal but none of the other options excite me inside or out like the baby AMGs.

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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

I could never understand people’s fears about depreciation of cars, most cars will always take a hit in value but my view has always been to buy a car and enjoy it . I’ve always bought cars to keep until they die and never worried about what I could get for them. The only time I’ve ever changed car in a short time frame is the M2 to M2 Comp, about eighteen months between. M2 Comp values have dropped like a stone but does that worry me? Not in the slightest as I plan to keep mine and I don’t care what it’s worth, no amount of smiles per miles can replace a cars value. I think rare collectors cars are generally the ones that fetch big money not your every day hot hatches. What ever car you end up with Kingswood, just enjoy it and look after it in which I have no doubt.


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

Soul boy 68 said:


> I could never understand people's fears about depreciation of cars, most cars will always take a hit in value but my view has always been to buy a car and enjoy it . I've always bought cars to keep until they die and never worried about what I could get for them. The only time I've ever changed car in a short time frame is the M2 to M2 Comp, about eighteen months between. M2 Comp values have dropped like a stone but does that worry me? Not in the slightest as I plan to keep mine and I don't care what it's worth, no amount of smiles per miles can replace a cars value. I think rare collectors cars are generally the ones that fetch big money not your every day hot hatches. What ever car you end up with Kingswood, just enjoy it and look after it in which I have no doubt.


Depreciation isnt the be all and end all but Its always nice to have a car you enjoy which doesn't lose to much money 
The i30n has been mentioned, a fun car but they can lose £10k in the first year alone, makes a good second hand buy at that price

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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

grunty-motor said:


> I have the MK3 Focus RS and think its a great car - very engaging to drive. Not the outright fastest out there (RS3/Audi/etc) but with a manual box and trick AWD system its is FUN! You can tune them cheaply to about 400hp and after that it gets expensive.
> 
> I had a MK2 before that it was also a good car, but with FWD has its limitiations.....also, over 10yr old now and while they sound fantastic and still have awesome road prescence, they are showing their age inside.
> 
> alternative maybe a m140 - RWD limitation but easy to tune +100hp


https://www.autotrader.co.uk/content/features/ford-focus-rs-vs-all-the-rivals

It depends where its driven, if in a straight line then yes an RS3 might be quicker, but on a road .....


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## grunty-motor (Aug 11, 2016)

I forgot about that video - certainly shows the RS in a good light!

It is a great sector for anyone looking for a car:thumb:


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## HEADPHONES (Jan 1, 2008)

Soul boy 68 said:


> I could never understand people's fears about depreciation of cars,......


In my early adult years, I thought people buying new were crazy as did most of my friends.

However, once I had saved up a spare £30k and had no other financial responsibilities, I went and spent it all on a brand new 350z........ something that I really loved and wanted.
That was 15 years ago.
It would probably fetch around £6-7k privately now.
That's almost £25k gone.
But one of the best things I've done.
A very fair price for so many years of daily pleasure.
Might not have done this if I was to change cars every year, but even then, if it doesn't mean the family are sacrificing their needs and it's financially viable........BUY THAT CAR :thumb:
If I did have 30k burning a hole iny pocket, I'd probably get a 370z and spend a bit on some nice wheels and minor Aero enhancements.
May not be the fastest or best handling, but there's always gonna be faster and better cars in the future, but ticks that "special" box for me.

Same with my missus.
She fell in love with the R52 Mini Cooper.
Bought her a new one in 2006.
There's not a new Mini or other car that she'd trade it for.
It was special to her then and still is.
Something like the below 370z makes me drool.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I like the 350 and 370z, but with that camber it just looks a bit daft and is pointless. It ruins it as a driver's car.


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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

HEADPHONES said:


> In my early adult years, I thought people buying new were crazy as did most of my friends.
> 
> However, once I had saved up a spare £30k and had no other financial responsibilities, I went and spent it all on a brand new 350z........ something that I really loved and wanted.
> That was 15 years ago.
> ...


thats not a bad loss at £1600 a year. i could live with that.

depreciation isnt the be all and end all its just im that tight the perception of 'losing money' would stress me out!

i see cars as an asset. the R32 is now mine, no PCP etc which would be a liability.

my poor upbringing probably impedes my financial decision making causing me to be risk adverse...........or just a tight nacker!


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## mac1459 (Aug 25, 2011)

just finish my mid life crisis early this year ,I ran a Astra j vxr from new , at the time off buying i looked at so many hot hatches , s3, rs3, rs mk11, etc the vxr was the one that gave the most , 29,000 miles ,5 years i sold it and bought a BMW 340i ,mmm maybe mid life is still happening


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## Nick-ST (Mar 4, 2013)

HEADPHONES said:


> In my early adult years, I thought people buying new were crazy as did most of my friends.
> 
> However, once I had saved up a spare £30k and had no other financial responsibilities, I went and spent it all on a brand new 350z........ something that I really loved and wanted.
> That was 15 years ago.
> ...


Have to agree with you the 350z and 370z are a special type of car. Personally I think you will start to see more of your 25k back over the coming years. They will 100% become a very desirable classic! A whopping great big V6 in a beautiful body, won't be seeing that again for much less than 100k in the future!

Absolutely loved my 350z Nismo


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

The one thing mystifying me is how a 350Z can even be mentioned in a lame hot-hatch thread.

It is telling that the hot hatch protagonists, give em enough time they start talking about wild tuning, to get more powah, it's great innit, which of course is to make up for the fact they are dull as dishwater except for the go-pedal.

Buy a proper car to begin with and there is far less inclination to go trying to get horsepower out of it. Get an M3. You don't drive in an M3 and think 'wow this would be so much better with another 50 horse'...


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

Vag DSG 4 Motion R RS or S3 is great bang for buck especially as someone stated a few quid on a remap and its Grin City  Sometimes i miss a manual but overall DSG for me. The problem is always theres so much chioce today and they are all very close.

I mean this also looks the nuts :argie: Like say with your budget your in super car beating money. I wish you luck and post what you get :thumb:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202005059192400?advertising-location=at_cars


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## Guest (May 21, 2020)

Skip hot-hatch, proceed to hyper hatch: RS3


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Porsche 911 996 Turbo. Your money should be safe and boy, what a car!


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

roscopervis said:


> Porsche 911 996 Turbo. Your money should be safe and boy, what a car!


Big money to buy and not the cheapest to maintain but I agree there would not be many cars faster on the road A to B. Absolute riot of a thing and could be driven daily to work.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Increasingly seeing people fall into one of two distinct camps, neither of them right or wrong:

Camp 1 - speed and fastest point to point

Camp 2 - speed is a factor but tactility, steering, balance, feel, gearchange quality etc is also equally important

Interesting to see that generally I think Camp 1 is becoming more prominent


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## Blue Al (Sep 13, 2015)

andy665 said:


> Increasingly seeing people fall into one of two distinct camps, neither of them right or wrong:
> 
> Camp 1 - speed and fastest point to point
> 
> ...


Gaming generation...

Old git so firmly in camp 2


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Blue Al said:


> Gaming generation...
> 
> Old git so firmly in camp 2


I'm in Camp 2 as well, part of the problem is that so many manufacturers focus so much on outright power and speed that perhaps the younger crowd don't get to experience or can learn about the other things that in my humble opinion can add so much to driving enjoyment.

Two of the most fun cars I have ever owned was a lightly tweaked Cinquecento Sporting and a Saxo VTR, neither fast cars but so much fun


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

The demand is 4wd and dual clutch boxes. It does make anyone without ability fast. Sorry guys. :lol: On your local B roads they are hard to beat for outright pace, however up until silly speeds the difference isn't that much. 

I had an A45 before. It's so easy to drive fast you end up driving at silly speeds to get to the fun factor. I've not driven the latest model which I read has concentrated on the fun factor, but it's faster too. 

I've driven a few RS3s. Nice engine, fast and good all round car. They aren't that nice to drive though. 

How many people when demonstrating how much fun their 4wd dual clutch car is do so by performing a launch control start? That's what people see as fun.

I'd challenge any of the 4wd very quick hatch drivers to drive a Megane RS and come back and say it's not more fun.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Kerr said:


> The demand is 4wd and dual clutch boxes. It does make anyone without ability fast. Sorry guys.  On your local B roads they are hard to beat for outright pace, however up until silly speeds the difference isn't that much.
> 
> I had an A45 before. It's so easy to drive fast you end up driving at silly speeds to get to the fun factor. I've not drive the latest model which I read has concentrated on the fun factor, but it's faster too.
> 
> ...


I had a test drive of the old generation Megane RS prior to opting for the A45, does that count? 

The A45 is a ridiculously capable car on a twisty b road. Don't think there is much on the road that could get away from it BUT I do agree it's not the most involving drive. For fun my wee Abarth was more of a hoot. I think the manual box is the biggest thing but then for 90% of my driving I love the auto.

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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Kerr said:


> I'd challenge any of the 4wd very quick hatch drivers to drive a Megane RS and come back and say it's not more fun.


I'm not sure many would, I think of cars like the Megane RS to be more of an analogue car whereas thinks like the Golf R are digital - they appeal to different people looking for different things and both fulfil their roles very well

Whilst there is a great choice of hot hatches / coupes out there its sad to see the number of analogue cars reducing dramatically, probably due to a combination of legislation and demand - there is an argument to say that the demand is driven (manipulated) by the manufacturers and most people simply buying in to what they read / see


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Blue Al said:


> Gaming generation...
> 
> Old git so firmly in camp 2


Camp 2 for me, a bit of everything. Some hot hatches fall in to camp 1 IMO, just a one trick pony and a blunt instrument.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Kerr said:


> The demand is 4wd and dual clutch boxes. It does make anyone without ability fast. Sorry guys. :lol: On your local B roads they are hard to beat for outright pace, however up until silly speeds the difference isn't that much.
> 
> I had an A45 before. It's so easy to drive fast you end up driving at silly speeds to get to the fun factor. I've not driven the latest model which I read has concentrated on the fun factor, but it's faster too.
> 
> ...


I've been in a passenger ride in a Megane RS last gen not current gen, very capable car indeed.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Soul boy 68 said:


> Camp 2 for me, a bit of everything. Some hot hatches fall in to camp 1 IMO, just a one trick pony and a blunt instrument.


Perhaps the best example is the Golf GTi and R - most top notch drivers and most of the motoring press say that the GTi is the more involving, more fun car to drive most of the time

Then compare the sales figures - its the MK7 R has consistently outsold the GTi (in the UK at least).

Probably a combination of manufacturer backed lease / PCP deals being better on the R but also supports the view that many see more power = better car


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

andy665 said:


> Perhaps the best example is the Golf GTi and R - most top notch drivers and most of the motoring press say that the GTi is the more involving, more fun car to drive most of the time
> 
> Then compare the sales figures - its the MK7 R has consistently outsold the GTi (in the UK at least).
> 
> Probably a combination of manufacturer backed lease / PCP deals being better on the R but also supports the view that many see more power = better car


Out of the two, I'd go for the GTI, heritage alone outweighs it and I think it's also the better looking car.


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

Im old so in camp 2  younger people don't have much to compare to as they probably haven't driven true hot hatch drivers cars such as the 205gti, clio Williams, r5 gt turbo etc. I think the last true hot hatch was probably the clio 182 trophy.. Since then they have steadily got heavier and numbed down.the old recipe of feedback and agility has been replaced with comfort, safety, power and out right pace

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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

andy665 said:


> I'm not sure many would, I think of cars like the Megane RS to be more of an analogue car whereas thinks like the Golf R are digital - they appeal to different people looking for different things and both fulfil their roles very well
> 
> Whilst there is a great choice of hot hatches / coupes out there its sad to see the number of analogue cars reducing dramatically, probably due to a combination of legislation and demand - there is an argument to say that the demand is driven (manipulated) by the manufacturers and most people simply buying in to what they read / see


Image is everything. The Renault badge doesn't score highly on Instagram. The driving aspect isn't top of the list for many people, but I'm sure if you set people loose with a few cars they'd at least appreciate the driving part.

I do get that in the real world that some cars work better more of the time. I nice automatic gearbox is more pleasant some times. Good in car tech makes a huge difference.

The inside of the previous generation car isn't so great. I've still to try out the new one, but it looks like some of the old stuff is still there. :lol: The switchgear looks similar.



Soul boy 68 said:


> I've been in a passenger ride in a Megane RS last gen not current gen, very capable car indeed.


There's a reason so many people choose them as track day cars.

Their Nurburgring lap times are faster than much more powerful cars that I doubt people would expect them to beat.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I must be in camp B then.

I would rate an M3 above virtually any of the hot hatches mentioned in this thread. I suspect the Megane would probably be just as fast in the right hands, particularly on a track.

I detest car channels (fudging CarWow- biggest bunch of muppets on youtube, rivalling even schmee I would say) which are infatuated with power or torque figures or ridiculous drag races- I can't even remember a time this might have been relevant on the road because doing so would invite other road users, as well as myself into doing something stupidly illegal and dangerous.

Tactility and poise on the road are a big big focus point for me because without them you never have the confidence to exploit the car.


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## Rab W19 (May 17, 2017)

I am a Ford man so probably am biased but I see a RS as a clever place to put your money.

MK2 Focus RS's if you can find a clean and standard one are already beginning to increase in value on a car that was already holding its values really well, especially if you find one with the right options e.g. the leather shell backs.

MK3 RS's again holding money. I drove fords press car not long after launch (mates a car journo) and was blown away, a car shouldn't be able to corner like that lol. If your willing to keep it standard it will be a good investment to the extent that even if you didnt keep it forever after a few years it shouldnt cost you anything other than running costs.

Ford RS models ALWAYS hold money.

however you cant talk about hot hatches and not consider a mk7 Golf R. probably all the car you will ever need. not the investment the fords would be but you will get a lot more car for your money and it will probably be the easiest to live with.


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## Rab W19 (May 17, 2017)

ollienoclue said:


> I must be in camp B then.
> 
> I would rate an M3 above virtually any of the hot hatches mentioned in this thread. I suspect the Megane would probably be just as fast in the right hands, particularly on a track.
> 
> ...


I  HATE SCHMEE!!!!!

I like a FWD hot hatches, chuckable cars that like a bit of lift off oversteer & you dont need to be doing crazy speeds to enjoy on a twisty back road. I want to have FUN, I dont want to be scared & I have no interest in point A-B or track lap times. I want a car that on a frozen monday morning will start first time and get me safely to work in traffic without a worry but at the same time on a sunny friday I can take the long way home and arrive with a smile ideally not breaking the bang in the process.

Golf GTI / Focus ST are the best all rounders and thats the camp I put myself in. there are faster, more focused, cheaper, more expensive & more premium hatches but nothing will do everything as well.

differant stroke for different strokes, thats why there is so many different takes on the same sector & if we all liked the same it would be a rather boring existence.


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

Rab W19 said:


> I am a Ford man so probably am biased but I see a RS as a clever place to put your money.
> 
> MK2 Focus RS's if you can find a clean and standard one are already beginning to increase in value on a car that was already holding its values really well, especially if you find one with the right options e.g. the leather shell backs.
> 
> ...


A rs ford is always a safe bet . Watched a recent volkswizard video on YouTube about golf R's.. Great all rounder but Seems they can be rather problematic especially in manual. Anybody on here got one?

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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Rab W19 said:


> Ford RS models ALWAYS hold money.


I wouldn't agree with that. They used to suffer heavy depreciation. Escort and Fiesta RS Turbos and Sierra Cosworths used to be cheap as chips on the second hand market.

The MK1 Focus RS values went right down before the huge surge.

I looked at the MK2 Focus RS brand new before buying a BMW 335i. There was big discounts off them as the dealers couldn't sell them. Second hand values were on the slide. It was then a couple of garages started buying up all the stock and managed to influence prices.

Then in recent years everything with an RS badge, especially the older stuff, has seen prices sky rocket. It's dragged up all the other sporty Ford badges too. I remember the Escort MK5 RS2000 was received very poorly. It wasn't a desirable car and they were worth pennies after a few years. I seen one in the classifieds not so long ago and they wanted huge money.

I think the prices of fast Fords is bonkers. There is no lack of supply and it doesn't make much sense why they are so expensive. There is going to be a downturn in the car market and these cars will be hit.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I remember my old boss traded in his Sierra RS500 for a Mondeo ST24 in the late 90s. 

He didn't get much for it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it didn't seem that crazy a thing to do at the time.


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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

Kerr said:


> I wouldn't agree with that. They used to suffer heavy depreciation. Escort and Fiesta RS Turbos and Sierra Cosworths used to be cheap as chips on the second hand market.
> 
> The MK1 Focus RS values went right down before the huge surge.
> 
> ...


That was all about timing in the mid to late 00's. Come 2008 when the rs was launched it was in the middle of the crash. No one had no money. Same story with the R32, VW practically gave away the last of the models.

Similar with the focus mk1 rs. I was offered one at £8k in 2010 and passed it up. Terrible decision but back then i was just happy to keep the roof over my head.

The reason the cheaper rs's like the 2000 have increased is because people can no longer afford the better stuff and the 'increases' trickle down as demand improves.

I do agree it's all inflated prices, people my age (30's - just, in 39!) who couldn't afford these cara first time round have disposable income. For now, and that may be the game changer as we head into a recession even the chancellor says may be a bit tough. They're grim words.

The classic car market has being due a correction since the late 80's. Maybe not the best time to have bought the 205!

A nice focus Rs mk3 should make up for that decision......now just to convince the wife!

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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

kingswood said:


> That was all about timing in the mid to late 00's. Come 2008 when the rs was launched it was in the middle of the crash. No one had no money. Same story with the R32, VW practically gave away the last of the models.
> 
> Similar with the focus mk1 rs. I was offered one at £8k in 2010 and passed it up. Terrible decision but back then i was just happy to keep the roof over my head.
> 
> ...


The MK2 RS was mid 2009 launch. It was December 2010 I looked before getting the BMW. The last MK2s were registered late 2011.

I don't actually remember the car market dying in 2008. It seemed to be the time that V8 BMW M3s, C63 Mercs and Audi RS4 started to become a regular sight on the roads. There's tons of popular performance cars from around this time.

Just had a check and car sales dropped 11% in 2008. They had a 7% drop last year. I dare to think what the slump will be this year.

The classic car market has had a few big slumps. The other thing about classic cars in the past was only select cars gained classic status. Now classic car status and future classic is predicted for tons of cars.

It does show how rich the country is when so many people can afford to support the prices of collectable cars. I love my cars, but I look at the prices of older cars and think no way would I even think of paying that much.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

Cripes, I would be kicking myself to have let an RS go for peanuts.

Interesting, I didn't perceive a huge change in the car market during the 2008 thing. Fuel became very cheap. I think cars that are perceived as being thirsty or complex have always been depreciation bombs unless they had a very select cult status or where limited numbers fed a market of hardcore buyers.

Would the early 2000's have not been a point where more people started buying cars for fun alongside daily drives? I agree there was a time when suddenly you say way way more performance saloons and the like about whereas before they were a rare rare thing.

EDIT- of course very very cheap finance is possibly a reason for all these changes. An interest rate of 8% or even 15% is a fearsome thing.


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## gatecrasher3 (Jul 21, 2006)

For that budget either a Civic Type R FK8 or even the FK2 and a good chunk of change in your pocket.

Fantastic handling and a more involved drive than just a straight line drag.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Who'll be first to mention the looks? :lol:

They've held their value well. £25k is the bottom of the market for a 67 plate GT.


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## Philb1965 (Jun 29, 2010)

Nearly went for an fk8 myself but I couldn’t get a deal that I was happy with, there were no discounts. Then drove a fiesta ST and it was nearly as quick, very sharp handling and made me smile more....and way cheaper. There is so much choice in this price range I don’t think you can buy a bad car, they will all provide plenty of smiles on public roads.

An FRS3 is still on my radar, had an edition model on order but it never happened due to dealership woes. Wish I’d bought it now but might be an itch I have to scratch.


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## dchapman88 (Mar 17, 2016)

gatecrasher3 said:


> For that budget either a Civic Type R FK8 or even the FK2 and a good chunk of change in your pocket.
> 
> Fantastic handling and a more involved drive than just a straight line drag.


FK2 all the way! 


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## gatecrasher3 (Jul 21, 2006)

dchapman88 said:


> FK2 all the way!
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


I'm with you :thumb:


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

dchapman88 said:


> FK2 all the way!
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


I can't keep up with The Civics code name, which is which?


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

How much for an Integra? Must be do-able for less than 30K?


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## Rab W19 (May 17, 2017)

gatecrasher3 said:


> For that budget either a Civic Type R FK8 or even the FK2 and a good chunk of change in your pocket.
> 
> Fantastic handling and a more involved drive than just a straight line drag.


Your not much more money for a FK8 over the FK2.

probably down to the rarity of the FK2 & that it looks better. I loved my FN2 and my mate has had 2 FK2's in different states of tune. seriously impressive cars but maybe a tad too focused for me now.


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## dchapman88 (Mar 17, 2016)

Soul boy 68 said:


> I can't keep up with The Civics code name, which is which?


Yeah the civic codes are confusing unless you get nerdy about them
The FK2 is this one












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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

dchapman88 said:


> Yeah the civic codes are confusing unless you get nerdy about them
> The FK2 is this one
> 
> 
> ...


And what's the other one ? :lol: appreciate that.


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## dchapman88 (Mar 17, 2016)

Soul boy 68 said:


> And what's the other one ?  appreciate that.


The other one is the FK8 
The next model on in age. 
They only did the FK2R from 2015 to 2017
The FK8 is from 2017 onwards 
And not as nice as my one (in my not so humble opinion) 
Hahaha 










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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I bet a lot of people would be surprised how fast the FK8 Civic is. 

It managed a 7.44 around the 'Ring. The brand new Mercedes A45s with an extra 100bhp was still 4 seconds slower. The Focus RS in 8.06.


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## Nidge76 (Sep 16, 2016)

Forget your turbo FK2's and your FK8's you need to go old school and get an n/a EP3 









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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Kerr said:


> I bet a lot of people would be surprised how fast the FK8 Civic is.
> 
> It managed a 7.44 around the 'Ring. The brand new Mercedes A45s with an extra 100bhp was still 4 seconds slower. The Focus RS in 8.06.


Would actually love to own one of those civics... I just can't ignore the styling though as much as I'd like to 

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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

Nidge76 said:


> Forget your turbo FK2's and your FK8's you need to go old school and get an n/a EP3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice  i had a ep3 for 3 years then a fn2 for 6. Brilliant cars

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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

The EP3 were great cars. Utterly reliable. I was sad to see mine go. Was never going to set the world on fire in outright pace but was a great car that I found involving to drive as you had to keep it on the boil.

What money is an Integra, real drivers cars.


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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

kingswood said:


> Pie in the in the sky thinking so only read on if youre as bored as me!
> 
> what hot hatch would people buy if they had 20-30k to spend?
> 
> ...


talking to my mate last nite about the used RS car prices and remembered this thread from last May, the RS's that were 22-23 are now £30k plus!


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

Yep. All those clever folk who were talking depreciation!

I suspect with the shortage of the semiconductors used in new cars and with manufacturers stopping making new cars as a result the market is buoyant for anything available.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

kingswood said:


> talking to my mate last nite about the used RS car prices and remembered this thread from last May, the RS's that were 22-23 are now £30k plus!


They start at £25-26k on my Autotrader app. Main dealer cars start at £27k.

The cheapest FK8 Honda Civic Type R GT also starts at £25,000.

There's one cheaper Megane RS280. The rest start at £23.500. You're £27,000 if you want a RS300.

All car prices are silly at the moment. You could get a brand new Mégane RS brand new a couple of years ago for less than current used prices.

Car prices are getting like house prices were years ago. People are obsessed with promoting cars values are going up and it encourages people to pay over the odds. Then we are left with cars at inflated prices.

There's 216 MK3 Ford Focus RS on Autotrader alone. Some have been up for sale for 6 months. There is no shortage of supply and no reason for price inflation. It's the same for most other cars too. Some cars have more for sale than ever. The prices should be going down.


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## SarahAnn (Apr 6, 2011)

They are not all selling at their silly inflated prices though. I sold my cla45 to a dealer in July and it's still for sale because he is asking too much for it.
I think the inflated prices are putting people off making offers on them.

Some dealers are taking offers. I collected a new shape cupra yesterday, £39k new 9 months ago advertised at £30500 and I offered £28k.

I bought the same model on 13th August at a different Cupra dealer but rejected it due to issues but they had that one on at the same price, £30500 and I offered £28k and it was accepted.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

SarahAnn said:


> They are not all selling at their silly inflated prices though. I sold my cla45 to a dealer in July and it's still for sale because he is asking too much for it.
> I think the inflated prices are putting people off making offers on them.
> 
> Some dealers are taking offers. I collected a new shape cupra yesterday, £39k new 9 months ago advertised at £30500 and I offered £28k.
> ...


Sounds great any pics? I think you are bang on not all high priced stuff is selling , loads of owners chancing their luck IMHO


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## SarahAnn (Apr 6, 2011)

I agree Derek about the prices. Perhaps it was the right car to offer on and I got lucky, I don't know but two dealers agreed to my offers. I'm getting cheeky in my old age.

No pics yet. I will give it a clean and protect tomorrow and put some pics on. 

It's graphene grey which reminds me of the grey that I think Audi first started using which is probably a bit of a marmite colour.
The wheels are matte black and I bought some Dr Beaseleys matte wheel sealant for the cla that I didn't open so I will give that a go and see what it's like as I haven't used it before :thumb:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

SarahAnn said:


> I agree Derek about the prices. Perhaps it was the right car to offer on and I got lucky, I don't know but two dealers agreed to my offers. I'm getting cheeky in my old age.
> 
> No pics yet. I will give it a clean and protect tomorrow and put some pics on.
> 
> ...


I had Gyeon ceramic gear on my merc Matte black wheels they looked great, sounds like a great combo, keep us updated with what you think of it:thumb:


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