# long term sealant tests (head to head)



## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Just a little playtime at the beespoke detailing meet last week, a realworld test for weekend warriors that dont have heat controlled booths and swanky detailing studios to work from










Will be updated with video's and pics for the foreseeable future


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

What is that first one?


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Nice one Matt! :thumb:

That's me subscribed! :lol:

Alan W


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## sicko (Jun 20, 2009)

echelon zenxero if i'm correct. When i wanted to buy it.. well i gave up seeing the price (+shipping + import tax) which was nearly 300€.


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## simonjj (Sep 25, 2010)

Nice one Matt, looking forward to see how they compare.

Simon


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

sm81 said:


> What is that first one?


Yes as stated it's echelon zen xero. So we have zen xero, the new cquartz finest, ceramishield, opticoat and aquartz. It's onlyfor sh1ts and giggles, they were all applied loosely as guided, but the multi coat ones were applied quite swiftly after each coat, and they were ALL driven in rain and hail to early. So in a round about way it's very fair. I have my bets placed already. Once everything has finished downloading I will add a few pics and vids of the day


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## Ghostrider (Dec 17, 2006)

Nice one ! Looking forward to any updates....

Do you used both aquartz products ? 1 layer aquartz titanium premium topped with 1 layer aquartz ?


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Ghostrider said:


> Nice one ! Looking forward to any updates....
> 
> Do you used both aquartz products ? 1 layer aquartz titanium premium topped with 1 layer aquartz ?


Correct yes. Probably only 20 mins between coats with a light warming from a heat gun. So a little less than industry standard


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Ok so this is how the test started, a "largely" ugly bunch machining the bonnet to give as even appearance as poss









This was then wipedown with erasor and me and lee set about dividing and applying to the panel

















Acouple hours later and it was play time


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## Crash Master (Feb 5, 2012)

Looking forward to the results like most I guess.


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## Mick (Jan 23, 2010)

interested to see results Matt, you may want to get photobucket to re-size your pics down a bit for you though, or this thread will get a bit messy :thumb:


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Nice job mate

Was eraser used on all bases set for the sealants?

I only recommend IPA for our sealant


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## alxg (May 3, 2009)

Jesus that Rangey looks big next to you mate! 

This will be an interesting one to follow Matt, thanks for doing it. It should show as you say what 95% of us will be able to do in terms of application/location :thumb:

And nice to see the Festy/Flex ratio is under control too


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Mick said:


> interested to see results Matt, you may want to get photobucket to re-size your pics down a bit for you though, or this thread will get a bit messy :thumb:


Blame Gordon for that :lol:

Everything that comes from mine gets resized as standard cause I'm so impatient  But consider it done


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Concours Car Care said:


> Nice job mate
> 
> Was eraser used on all bases set for the sealants?
> 
> I only recommend IPA for our sealant


Yes sir. 
This is interesting, do you think it will have an effect?


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## wanna veccy (May 7, 2009)

defo the fugly bunch.pmsl


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

Hi Lee

Eraser was used as it has been shown to remove more oils etc from the paint so in turn doing a better job than IPA as the bonnet had just been machined we need to make sure that the bonnet was very clean for all the sealants

Eraser v IPA 
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=236968


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Nice test but what's the point in including 'Finest' when most people can't purchase it given that the test isintended for 'weekend warriors'?

Also doesn't Eraser create some bonding issues with some of the coatings such as Ceramishield and Opti Coat? Surely it's fairer to stick to respective manufacturers guidelines for application? Lee at Concours specifically states straight IPA/Water only. At the moment it's weighted towards CarPro?

Where's C1+? This is surely the most popular coating in the UK?


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Good points russ. Gtech wasn't included simply as non of us had any :lol: but I do now so will probably continue on the same car with similar products. I would also like to see c1± against something like regular cquartz, but also against old c1 for a comparrison there. So you also raise the point about eraser, how does this effect the coatings? If its something I don't know about I would really like to as I currently use ipa but was going to start using eraser! I thought it lifted more oils etc more effectively and then evaporated completely?


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## Davemm (Mar 9, 2009)

again isnt ceramishield not available to the public ulness requested and wasnt only a few bottles let out to the public?

how can it be weighted towards one coating ? they all had the same prepwork, wither that was an ipa wipedown or with eraser it doenst matter what was used they all had the same!!


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

It does imo

Carpro mfr eraser so it has been tested with it. I use IPA and only stipulate ipa is used. We'll see wont we


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## Davemm (Mar 9, 2009)

but if the product is only removing oils then its doing the job it was inteded is it not? the same as ipa.

So if opticoat comes out as lasting the longest does this still mean its an unfair test and geared up to make it last longer than the other coatings used?


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

That's like saying all paint cleansers are the same? The point is I'd stick to the manufacturers recommended instructions. Why not just use IPA? It's cheaper and just as effective. 

I'd expect Opti Coat to win tbh.


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## Davemm (Mar 9, 2009)

Because in a real world not everyone will have what is recommended. 

Does the ipa add something to the product base, or is it to make the paint as clean and oil free as possible?


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

All im going to say is, My recommendation is IPA. Simples really.

I say IPA for a reason. I look forward to the results. I have seen people have bonding issues with Eraser which is why i bought it up.


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## Davemm (Mar 9, 2009)

indeed it is simple, does this not mean that your product should be supplied with a small bottle of ipa to help the coating ? (if sold to the public or to anyone other than one of your detailers)

Now if eraser can cause bonding issues then all of the coatings will have to deal with it the same will they not ?


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

i do offer it yes

If they need ipa they add it to the order. Detailers that use it have the option to buy it.

It doesnt sit right with me thats all


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

MidlandsCarCare said:


> Nice test but what's the point in including 'Finest' when most people can't purchase it given that the test isintended for 'weekend warriors'?
> 
> Also doesn't Eraser create some bonding issues with some of the coatings such as Ceramishield and Opti Coat? Surely it's fairer to stick to respective manufacturers guidelines for application? Lee at Concours specifically states straight IPA/Water only. At the moment it's weighted towards CarPro?
> 
> Where's C1+? This is surely the most popular coating in the UK?


This was a bit of fun on the day as for eraser against IPA the fact is that it leaves a cleaner surface remember eraser contains ipa then I don't see a problem it actually was not meant for weekend warriors just bit of fun in my eyes to see how they do a more through test will be done with C1 etc

Before the coatings were applied a heat gun was gone over the surface to make sure no micro water condensation was left after the eraser, eraser has been proven in tests and a lot of top detailers around the world now use eraser.

As for Ceramishield it was nice easy on easy of product but as been said this was meant for pros as well no favours were given to finest as water was used on it way before you were meant to.

IPA basically lifts the polishing oils from the surface but then you can redistribute the polishing oils over the surface with wiping eraser contains a percentage of ipa but also contains a degreasing agent which breaks down the polishing oil residue which then helps to bond to the microfiber and not redistribute the oils on the surface.

This test no product was given favours everyone was there to watch and see the water sheeting beading afterwards other manufacture have raised concerns the products getting wet so soon afterwards but they are still happy to see the results as it covers a few bases.

as said this was bit of fun on the day its not like people will rush out to buy zen xero due to the cost of it.


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## AaronGTi (Nov 2, 2010)

Max Protect Ultimate Nano Coat would be good as well.


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

AaronGTi said:


> Max Protect Ultimate Nano Coat would be good as well.


I will organise another day solely for nano coatings and the car will stay overnight in unit no wetness and each coating following how the manufacture intends so if anyone does want to see a coating involved feel free to send it over I can't afford to buy them all I get married in 5 weeks lol


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

I dont want to come across anti as im not :thumb:

Just wanted to point it out thats all


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Just to clarify peeps this "test" went ahead really through my self indulgence. I had zen xero, I fancy either ceramishield or opticoat and I am intrigued as to how much a proffesional application only product pffers over the others. We didn't have gtechniq and to be honest I won't be using it in personal life, but I am interested to see it against others. So sorry if this offends some, it is not meant to, its purely so I can decide what to use personally in the future. If others find it fun, interesting or useful that's cool, if not, I CAN live with that lol. Just for peoples reference my initial opinions were that ceramishield was probably the easiest to apply and has the greatest chance of success given its a single coat and quick cure time. Weather eraser has an effect time will tell, or perhaps not? I reckon the zen xero was crazy easy to use, BUT given its a multi coat and didn't have much cure time this probably will factor. Aquartz was super easy and almost a dead opposite to the others, no beading, just a long slow sheet that leaves the panel completely, and I mean completely dry. Spooky really. Opticoat was an eye opener and finest scared me as lee "needed" a mask but somehow we were imune to whatever was going on


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

Concours Car Care said:


> I dont want to come across anti as im not :thumb:
> 
> Just wanted to point it out thats all


was not aimed at you Lee, we tried to be fair to all on the day as I said cermaishield was a nice product to use, the smell was a bit err different but then again so is finest, but we did try to be fair even getting them all wet at the same time afterwards when I know this might affect a couple of them but it's good to see how important exact application is with nano coatings but I will re run the tests including more products that can be brought by everyone.

The only argument I have is ipa v eraser , now as you're a manufacturer I could see you would not want to recommend eraser and that's fair enough no arguments there but for how well the product works it will get my support


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

That's what i liked best on day see who wins and i'll get some for my bike
View attachment 23419


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

chrisc said:


> That's what i liked best on day see who wins and i'll get some for my bike
> 
> 
> > trust you to make a joke of it chris


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

BespokeCarCare said:


> was not aimed at you Lee, we tried to be fair to all on the day as I said cermaishield was a nice product to use, the smell was a bit err different but then again so is finest, but we did try to be fair even getting them all wet at the same time afterwards when I know this might affect a couple of them but it's good to see how important exact application is with nano coatings but I will re run the tests including more products that can be brought by everyone.
> 
> *The only argument I have is ipa v eraser , now as you're a manufacturer I could see you would not want to recommend eraser and that's fair enough no arguments there but for how well the product works it will get my support*


Not at all. Thanks for the reply

It's nothing to do with recommending others products. Its more to do with using a mfr's product as a base for other mfr's LSP's. Surely IPA is the more neutral choice when conducting a fair test and assessment of differing mfr's.

I'm not anti car-pro either as you'll see have always loved IX and think Cquartz is a very competent LSP. I just feel that using a neutral IPA mix would negate any feeling of bias - I say this as an assumption that the other mfr's would say the same.

If i was really being picky I could also ask if the bottles were opened right before use and not subjected to the air which would start to degrade the ceramic ingredients but im not. Its more the IPA issue that i wanted to clear up.

:thumb:


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## WD Pro (Feb 7, 2006)

Davemm said:


> does this not mean that your product should be supplied with a small bottle of ipa to help the coating ? (if sold to the public or to anyone other than one of your detailers)


Dude, I am not having a go at you but your comment made me laugh 

I am going to write to a few manufactures and have a moan - I wanted free wax supplying with my microfibres and more importantly I expected a foam gun and jet wash with my magifoam ... :lol:

WD


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## rapidTS (Feb 24, 2010)

you have not tried some G2 

http://www.theultimatefinish.co.uk/gtechniq/g1-clearvision-smart-glass.aspx


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## Davemm (Mar 9, 2009)

Why ? 

If there is such a big deal with the product being used over ipa and no other product incase it may affect durability then should it not be supplied with a bottle and then instructed to be used as a base ? 

As for you comment to wanting wax with a microfiber then I think youl find some manufactures actually give you a mf and applicator with some of their waxes


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Its not a big deal. Its the instructions i give out.

IF someone doesnt have IPA there is an option to add it to the order so yes i do supply it with it IF the buyer wants it.

I'll bow out now - I've said my piece. Next time i'll come and explain it in person and we'll chat then


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## DetailMyCar (Apr 19, 2010)

Davemm said:


> Why ?
> 
> If there is such a big deal with the product being used over ipa and no other product incase it may affect durability then should it not be supplied with a bottle and then instructed to be used as a base ?
> 
> As for you comment to wanting wax with a microfiber then I think youl find some manufactures actually give you a mf and applicator with some of their waxes


Think you're missing Lee's point really, it's more that Eraser is a dedicated product developed by CarPro to work WITH CQuartz, whereas IPA is completely neutral you know?? I think he has done wel not to keep repeating himself as he's been pretty clear about his feelings on it


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## dazlee03 (Oct 6, 2011)

****! Ceramisheild wins before even buying any other sealant.


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## Magic Detail (Jul 25, 2010)

I'd have thought this will come down to the big two; Ceramishield and Opti-Coat..

Bit annoying we're gonna have to wait 3yrs to find out which of those were best


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Paragon said:


> I'd have thought this will come down to the big two; Ceramishield and Opti-Coat..
> 
> Bit annoying we're gonna have to wait 3yrs to find out which of those were best


Lol I tell you what if that's the case everyone should be well happy. Given the pretty standard conditions in which they were applied if they arent ALL affected one way or another I will be surprised


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## WD Pro (Feb 7, 2006)

Davemm said:


> Why ?
> 
> If there is such a big deal with the product being used over ipa and no other product incase it may affect durability then should it not be supplied with a bottle and then instructed to be used as a base ?
> 
> As for you comment to wanting wax with a microfiber then I think youl find some manufactures actually give you a mf and applicator with some of their waxes


Well I would hazard a guess that any product would perform best if used as advised - this being especially important if it's being used in a head to head test that's being posted in the public domain. It's Not exactly a level playing field to specifically go against the recomendations of the manufacturer 

What would have been fair (and possibly more interesting) would have been to try the product twice - as you wanted and also as recomended 

I know some wax comes with a microfiber and / or pad, but I think you might have missed my point a little ... 

WD


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## AaronGTi (Nov 2, 2010)

Concours Car Care said:


> Its not a big deal. Its the instructions i give out.
> 
> IF someone doesnt have IPA there is an option to add it to the order so yes i do supply it with it IF the buyer wants it.
> 
> I'll bow out now - I've said my piece. Next time *i'll come and explain it in person and we'll chat then*


What a guy! Offering to come down and help with the product in person. :speechles


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## wanna veccy (May 7, 2009)

dazlee03 said:


> ****! Ceramisheild wins before even buying any other sealant.


why is that then?

if were going to be funny about IPA/ERASER then we might aswell be funny as you say about how long the products were open before use,what shampoo was used, what drying towels were used,hell what about the polish,rotary/DA,microfiber cloths,direction of application.maybe now is a bad time to mention that the bonnet had a couple of light spots. joking aside if the above effect the product by so much, then i don't want it,whether it's available to the public or not. i think i'll stick to EXO.COUGH:doublesho


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## Davemm (Mar 9, 2009)

Again I think things are being slightly over liked here, none of these coatings were applied as per their ideal manufactures instructions. They all had the same treatment! 
Of course I understand that lee can't recommend people to use eraser the same as the other companies couldnt, but there isn't just car pro products on test here there are others to and they all go subjected to the same. Now as a rough test and a little bit of fun and feedback to the general public who may not get the chance to apply these products in there ideal temps and humidity levels and kept dry for the right amount of time then surely this kind of test Is going to be beneficial to the general public is it not ?


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

DetailMyCar said:


> Think you're missing Lee's point really, it's more that Eraser is a dedicated product developed by CarPro to work WITH CQuartz, whereas IPA is completely neutral you know?? I think he has done wel not to keep repeating himself as he's been pretty clear about his feelings on it





Concours Car Care said:


> Not at all. Thanks for the reply
> 
> It's nothing to do with recommending others products. Its more to do with using a mfr's product as a base for other mfr's LSP's. Surely IPA is the more neutral choice when conducting a fair test and assessment of differing mfr's.
> 
> ...


I would love to agree with you Lee but I can't on this one any manufacture would want the BEST possible cleaned surface for their product to bond to only have to see over in the states how most of the top detailers are now using eraser for their cleaning part reason being and as shown on tests it does a better job than ipa remember it does contain ipa aswell if you can show me any test anywhere that shows ipa is better than eraser for the job it is designed to do I will eat my words this is a product for any coating not just designed for use with Cquartz etc it was designed to remove polishing oils that are left after machine polishing to leave a completely clean surface so works with any LSP

As was said no other manufacturer has mentioned the ipa v eraser part and are more concerned about the water hitting product so soon after application but welcome to see how it effect the coating after all this is what testing is about hell we even tested exo that weekend.

This thread has got well of subject it was meant to be a bit of fun as we know they weren't PERFECT conditions for ANY of the test subjects but this can be sorted quite easy for another time and you are more than welcome to come down and chat you did pm me a while ago asking to show me cermishield but never turned up but if you want to supply me the product for a fair test fully video'd with IPA only then more then welcome i already said it was easy n easy out i am not slating the product at all.

How ever as the result of the tests done are unknown at this point it might be your product will come out on top Matt is very neutral person with no interest in any company.



dazlee03 said:


> ****! Ceramisheild wins before even buying any other sealant.


i spent the last 3 and half years testing quartz/Sio2/silca based sealants i have big interest in them dont sound like a fan boy this is not what the thread was about i could show you lots of videos and information over the years but would be hated by a few as it would up set the fan boys if i was honest the longest test on a sealant that has been real world testing would have to go to opticoat with proven results plenty over in the states for that information and not just hoods stuck on roofs etc as this does not show real world testing either only part of it different fall out from different areas friction from washing is a big part in how the coatings last as well.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

WD Pro said:


> Well I would hazard a guess that any product would perform best if used as advised - this being especially important if it's being used in a head to head test that's being posted in the public domain. It's Not exactly a level playing field to specifically go against the recomendations of the manufacturer
> 
> What would have been fair (and possibly more interesting) would have been to try the product twice - as you wanted and also as recomended
> 
> ...


I think some people are missing the point. It IS fair because all products were treated the same, the car was polished with my choice of polish, wiped down with what is/was going to be my choice of product and applied in a manor which is attainable to me, as in a little cover to work under and no more. When I find which product has behaved best this is the one I will stick with.

Lee (concours) wanted to get a point across which I think he did quite respectfully, and this wasn't that the test "will" fail because of it, more it "might" have an affect, if it does it does, if it doesn't it doesn't, the same can be said or "all" the products, and will also be said for the other sealants, waxes, glazes etc etc I test. How on earth are we supposed to know what does and doesn't work without testing them  Can everyone stop taking this so seriously and take it as intended, a search for not "the best", but " my fave". Come on people indulge me here :lol:


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

wanna veccy said:


> why is that then?
> 
> if were going to be funny about IPA/ERASER then we might aswell be funny as you say about how long the products were open before use,what shampoo was used, what drying towels were used,hell what about the polish,rotary/DA,microfiber cloths,direction of application.maybe now is a bad time to mention that the bonnet had a couple of light spots. joking aside if the above effect the product by so much, then i don't want it,whether it's available to the public or not. i think i'll stick to EXO.COUGH:doublesho


Or maybe not


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

i do a lot of testing more then a lot realise i think 8 different waxes on my own car at moment






which includes one of yours Lee i dont do these for show i do them because i want to be sure i am offering the best to my customers its important to me.


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## wanna veccy (May 7, 2009)

stangalang said:


> Or maybe not


oooops:lol:


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## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

Nice test guys. I know how passionate Lee as about these 'new age' coatings so very much look forward to the results.

And for what it is worth- Eraser is THE product to use before any nano sealant. Why you would argue that an inferior product would be a better choice is madness in my eyes!

:thumb:

P.S. Glad to see there is still some 'fun' going on in the Detailing World with 4 rotaries on one panel- smashing!


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

You know what, this is a pointless test. 

If you wanted to see how products compare against each other you would have followed the instructions each manufacturer supplies. You would have also had one person using one polishing technique to prepare the bonnet rather than 4 people who will have different machines, pads and skill levels.

The argument made that some people won't have the recommended preparation products is crap. If someone was spending the money and taking the time to put a long term protective coating on their car they would spend the relatively small amount of money required to make sure they had the correct preparation products. What is the point in ignoring the manufacturers instructions on a long term product? You might as well stick to a spray on sealant and top it off regularly.

Whatever the results are they will be meaningless imo.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

amiller said:


> Nice test guys. I know how passionate Lee as about these 'new age' coatings so very much look forward to the results.
> 
> And for what it is worth- Eraser is THE product to use before any nano sealant. Why you would argue that an inferior product would be a better choice is madness in my eyes!
> 
> ...


It was a little loud in the middle section Andy, but a thing of beauty is a joy forever :thumb:


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Superspec said:


> You know what, this is a pointless test.
> 
> If you wanted to see how products compare against each other you would have followed the instructions each manufacturer supplies. You would have also had one person using one polishing technique to prepare the bonnet rather than 4 people who will have different machines, pads and skill levels.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input :thumb:

And yes, having physically tested it for myself, I will categorically be able to state through my own findings if this is in fact true. Which is kind of the point, isn't it?


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

stangalang said:


> Thanks for your input :thumb:
> 
> And yes, having physically tested it for myself, I will categorically be able to state through my own findings if this is in fact true. Which is kind of the point, isn't it?


My pleasure.

I can't work out if you are deliberately missing the point or incapable of understanding it. IF you want to know which long term product performs the best apply it as instructed. The argument that they were all treated the same during application and exposed to rain at the same time is irrelevant. Some products will handle the incorrect application better than others which makes it an unfair and irrelevant test.

It might only be a bit of fun to you and the people at the meet but this forum carries a lot of sway with the detailing fraternity and your test, which is being widely followed, will impact upon decisions people make when deciding on a long term LSP. This has an impact on the credibility and reputation of the products tested.

If you want to do a publicly published long term test do it properly.


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## wanna veccy (May 7, 2009)

it's a good job this was only a fun real world test and not a clinical one. Matt you forgot to mention that you machine polished all the sealants down after application to try and stop them beading so that the aquartz could compete with the others.pmsl


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## dazlee03 (Oct 6, 2011)

wanna veccy said:


> why is that then?
> 
> if were going to be funny about IPA/ERASER then we might aswell be funny as you say about how long the products were open before use,what shampoo was used, what drying towels were used,hell what about the polish,rotary/DA,microfiber cloths,direction of application.maybe now is a bad time to mention that the bonnet had a couple of light spots. joking aside if the above effect the product by so much, then i don't want it,whether it's available to the public or not. i think i'll stick to EXO.COUGH:doublesho


Wow your one cool guy!


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## wanna veccy (May 7, 2009)

Superspec said:


> My pleasure.
> 
> I can't work out if you are deliberately missing the point or incapable of understanding it. IF you want to know which long term product performs the best apply it as instructed.* The argument that they were all treated the same during application and exposed to rain at the same time is irrelevant.* Some products will handle the incorrect application better than others which makes it an unfair and irrelevant test.
> 
> ...


well with me not having a garage or anywhere to store the car from rain for 12hrs or what not,makes it very relevant.:thumb:


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## wanna veccy (May 7, 2009)

dazlee03 said:


> Wow your one cool guy!


why's that then?


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

wanna veccy said:


> it's a good job this was only a fun real world test and not a clinical one.


Yes! Because in the real world no one follows instructions on the expensive products they just bought!? No, what they do is whack them on any old how and then come on here and moan about how crap they are - how many times have we seen threads about G1/G3 not working properly on here?

Fortunately, most people can read and take the time to do so.

I stand by my point - you can poke at me as much as you like because as someone else said I CAN live with it.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Superspec said:


> My pleasure.
> 
> I can't work out if you are deliberately missing the point or incapable of understanding it. IF you want to know which long term product performs the best apply it as instructed. The argument that they were all treated the same during application and exposed to rain at the same time is irrelevant. Some products will handle the incorrect application better than others which makes it an unfair and irrelevant test.
> 
> ...


You are correct, "some products will handle the incorrect application better than others". If you read my past posts this is not about finding "the best" it's about finding what I want most. So if I use eraser, and a product is fussy to eraser, then I don't want it. How will I know unless I try it? If I work on my mates cars outside, and a product "must" be kept dry for hours upon hours after application, then I don't want it. I don't use a lot of products out there as I have tested them and they don't fit in with my routine, but the notion that this will affect how others perceive a product is nonsense. HOWEVER, if someone on here sees this test and finds it useful to there future detailing due to similar circumstances I am happy with that, as it may have saved them a few quid. For every product bought there are dozens that aren't and I'm gonna put my neck on the line and say that this thread will have little if any affect on that :thumb:


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

Superspec said:


> You know what, this is a pointless test.
> 
> If you wanted to see how products compare against each other you would have followed the instructions each manufacturer supplies. You would have also had one person using one polishing technique to prepare the bonnet rather than 4 people who will have different machines, pads and skill levels.
> 
> ...


how meaningless its real world testing eraser is better then ipa so doing all the nano coats a favour the bad part of this whole test was water hit the panels before the recommended times but this will be same for all its same for home user who apply one of these sealants and gets caught out by a rain shower to early hell I have seen it happen to a pro on hear then could not work out why they product was not doing so well this is why I do a lot of personal testing. And as amiller just said i do have a very keen interest in this tech

As for the machine side we all used 205 and yellow pads we only removed the swirls yes different levels of skills from the people machining but the swirls were removed the surface was clean and prepped for the coatings every time there is any kind of big test on here everyone jumps on people about flaws in the test always happens but I will machine polish a bonnet myself and re test with videos under strict manufacture conditions it might make me unpopular that's why I have never released past findings but sick of the arguments now so if any manufacture would to stand behind their products or want to come down feel free.

As you can see what was meant to be a bit of fun has gone serious which is a shame to me.


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## svended (Oct 7, 2011)

Wow. This thread went a bit pete-tong quite fast. It's a good way to see how products react to real life conditions side by side. I'm sure Matt and the group thoroughly prepared the area uniformily and applied the test products as specified by the product manufacturer. It's by no means a true scientific evaluation, but some good harmless fun. So getting back to the thread at hand it'll be good to see how these products fare.


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## wanna veccy (May 7, 2009)

as male species we don't read instructions,don't get me wrong your comments are very true,but its a sad fact that i can't control the weather.Maybe i shouldn't buy a product that needs to be kept dry,or maybe ppl should test these products and see how they fair. if the conditions the test was carried out in don't apply to your personal circumstances,then don't waste your time waiting on the results.Start your own test and see how you get on,if manufacturers allready instruct on the perfect application and give durability ratings from said application technique then that is that. ppl shouldn't see this as a test to see which lsp is the best but which lsp works best with this application technique. if ppl are too stupid to make a decision for themselves then that is there problem.:thumb:


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

amiller said:


> Nice test guys. I know how passionate Lee as about these 'new age' coatings so very much look forward to the results.
> 
> And for what it is worth- *Eraser is THE product to use before any nano *sealant. Why you would argue that an inferior product would be a better choice is madness in my eyes!
> 
> ...


IN YOUR OPINION of course

Why on gods earth is IPA inferior.

Some people are missing my point here. Why would i suggest another MFR's product to prepare the base when there are cases of bonding issues. Tell me mate, have you had bonding issues with this or is the comment Eraser is THE product to use just an uninformed one.

As per usual a DW thread spins out of control with some people not really knowing (not assuming, KNOWING) what the hell they're on about.

I actually agree its a bit of fun and threads like these are 100% the backbone of this site and Matt has posted it so we should all respect that and this is my point. I am NOT slagging the test off whatsoever (I'm not a keyboard warrior and always say my piece up front and n person.

I am merely stating that I would use IPA and never tell anyone to use anyone elses variation of it.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Thanks for sticking with it Lee. The other thing that's happening here is that because you have asked a question others have assumed that the test is biased towards other products and that I seem to want yours to fail. In typical dw style they have of course forgotten or not asked why I wanted to try it in the first place, or even why it went in the middle! Thanks for the replies and your thoughts mate, it "all" helps so regular people like myself can make informed decisions


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

My point exactly thanks mate.

I think way too many people "skim" read and don't think before they type but meh let them 

Wish i'd have come now and we could have had a chat in the real :thumb:


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## anthonyh90 (Mar 30, 2011)

Geez who would have thought a fun sealant test would create so much controversy :wall:

Thanks for doing the test stangalang. It will be interesting to see the results :thumb:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Great test Matt and others!!!

I'm now more interested in seeing if Eraser has effected bonding of the other coatings. I can't see how it would, but still intrigued.

Did you see any difference in darkening effect or gloss at all?


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## Davemm (Mar 9, 2009)

There was a slight darkening affect from ceramisheild


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## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

Concours Car Care said:


> IN YOUR OPINION of course
> 
> Why on gods earth is IPA inferior.


Of course it is my opinion, a proven opinion none the less. :lol:

The reason why IPA is an inferior pre-nano prep has been mentioned previously though. It is because of its limited ability to remove excess polishing oils. Eraser, actually breaks down the oils as well as removing them so any oils moved about on the paintwork (which IPA and Eraser both do to some extent) are being slowly broken down for easier absorption my a MF, unlike when using IPA the oils are being constantly moved around with no 'aid' to help absorption. Of course, I'm sure IPA can produce squeaky clean paintwork too, it is just the Eraser makes this easier.

The point is that these 'nano sealants' bond directly to the paint and therefore need the cleanest possible surface. So whatever you use, this should always be the priority. Why use Eraser instead of IPA, because all though both are CAPABLE of producing that post-polishing clean paintwork, Eraser is a better product for the job. (better in terms of speed, make-up, guarantees, etc.) So in actual fact, I think using Eraser has been of some advantage to all products and makes it a more accurate test! :doublesho 

A good debate going on none-the-less. :thumb:


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

I now prepare by wiping down with Eraser first, followed by IPA. :thumb:

Cleanliness is next to godliness if Nano/Si02/hybrid coatings are to bond properly and maximum performance and durability be obtained. 

Alan W


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## Sirmally2 (Feb 28, 2011)

I've been watching this thread closely and reserved from putting my size 11 into the arguement.

All i will say is i also do not have the "Ideal" place to apply any nano coatings which is what puts me off them somewhat as from things ive seen/read they can be quite fussy when it comes to application and not getting wet for X length of time afterwards.

I have invested in 1 nano coating (and will not reveal which) as i havn't tried it yet, i cant really comment and make any jugement as i am only a relative newbie and weekend warrior to the seasoned pro's

I will be interested in the outcome of this bit of fun, as after all it was started in the name of fun and it will help my decision in furthering a future purchase.

Can i ask how these will be maintained? As in wash shampoo or dedicated nano shampoo etc?


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## neil b (Aug 30, 2006)

What's haopens to the word called FUN ! Some people need to chill out or pop a chill pill on this thread, why does things always need turn so serious on dw the *****ing and moaning.So they never used c1 so what's the big deal the choice was made by the Matt and that's it simples if people want to see c1 go do a test yourself and post it on dw.


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## alxg (May 3, 2009)

Wow, I come back after a short time and it has really gone a bit wild here :doublesho

Can we not all try to see the point of Matt's test here folks before getting the boxing gloves out?
It was a *non serious, fun* test to try out some products Matt has to see how they would fare in real world situations - i.e. without a hermetically sealed, perfect humidity and temperature controlled booth (cos we all have those don't we?) and then see which suited *him* better.

There is no bias or malice for any of the products as I see it, so can't we all just play nicely?

This is what DW is all about isn't it, sharing experiences?


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

alxg said:


> Wow, I come back after a short time and it has really gone a bit wild here :doublesho


Alex,

In defense of my post above it was in response to Andrew's very informative post about Eraser and IPA above. :thumb: My post was not aimed at Matt and was provided to add to Andrew's post and provide information only. 

We are all different and some of us more OCD than others!  I personally just like to ensure that I follow instructions 'to the letter' whilst others don't even read them! :lol:

Each to their own and I very much look forward to updates on these coatings as I said on Page 1. :thumb:

Alan W


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

In the real world I read the instructions and check weather forecasts...Would I apply one of these sealants outside today? No, of course not. I have a garage but my car won't fit inside it so I face the same issues as everyone else, but you do your best to manage those surely? 

I understand the point of the test - for you to you find out which you prefer. But why publish something that isn't a fair test because the application method is flawed? It will suit some better than others but it doesn't make them better sealants. All of these sealants will perform very well when applied correctly, I don't think there is a bad choice in there. I just don't think it's right to publish your findings when you aren't doing a controlled test. 

Call me a keyboard warrior all you like, my point is fair and I am entitled to voice my opinion as others have.

Finally, my post isn't motivated by the fact someone else raised a question about IPA v Eraser. I am able to form my own opinions!!

Good luck with the test, I hope it helps YOU choose the one that suits you the best and hopefully doesn't damage the reputation of any of the products tested. I won't comment any more.


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## Sirmally2 (Feb 28, 2011)

Alan W said:


> I personally just like to ensure that I follow instructions 'to the letter' whilst others don't even read them!


I concour with you Alan. I like to follow any instructions as close as i can...


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## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

To be honest, I'm at the stage where I think the only sensible thing to do would be to remove the entire bonnet, burn it, and say no more of any 'real world' testing. What were you thinking?! 

P.S. The MOMENT i saw a couple of jokers with the Festool polishers I knew the test was doomed! :lol:


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

Great test :thumb:


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

amiller said:


> To be honest, I'm at the stage where I think the only sensible thing to do would be to remove the entire bonnet, burn it, and say no more of any 'real world' testing. What were you thinking?!
> 
> P.S. The MOMENT i saw a couple of jokers with the Festool polishers I knew the test was doomed! :lol:


Nice recovery Andrew! :lol:

Yes, Flex all the way! :thumb: (Have you sold yours yet? :lol

Alan W


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## wanna veccy (May 7, 2009)

don't start on the festool/flex battle or lee might go all crazy on us and publish pics of his shiny legs.:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho oh and :doublesho:doublesho


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## alxg (May 3, 2009)

My bit wasn't aimed at any individual Alan, I can see the angle everyone is coming from..........until.............Andrew went and made it a Festy/Flex issue!!:lol:

Flexual harassment is an ugly thing, and should be discouraged where possible


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Finally we are back on track. It's all love baby no animals were harmed in the process etc! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I firmly believe this, but sometimes I think people are so bothered about pointing this out they forget that I am too, it's my test for my selfish reasons, I posted this one as I thought it might be fun as everyone likes a bit of beading, right? 

This will not affect sales of sealants in a detrimental way whatsoever, as if people read it thoroughly they will know what's going on and take it as directed, if not, ah well

I want to finish by thanking everyone involved, anyone that gave me a sample to use, and any manufacturers/resellers straight enough to get involved on here, I have already learned a lot off of the back of this so with that in mind it was absolutely worth it, for me


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Oh and we now have a new saying, "flexual harassment", it was worth it just for that :lol:


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## Kap01 (Aug 12, 2007)

I disagree with EVERYONE!


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## lucky_paddy (Feb 14, 2010)

Kap01 said:


> I disagree with EVERYONE!


I agree with you!


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

I actually just spat on my iPad , YouTube are the best :lol:


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Sirmally2 said:


> I've been watching this thread closely and reserved from putting my size 11 into the arguement.
> 
> All i will say is i also do not have the "Ideal" place to apply any nano coatings which is what puts me off them somewhat as from things ive seen/read they can be quite fussy when it comes to application and not getting wet for X length of time afterwards.
> 
> ...


Yep absolutely, sticking with the point of the test it will be maintained the same as the rest of the car, infact all my cars, foamed with bilt hamber then washed with duragloss. I will video the rinse with both a shower setting and open ended hose. I will also be chec king it under the sun gun for any changes in marring, but I doubt the video will pick this up


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Any difference in the 'look' of the various sections coated Matt? 

Alan W


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Alan W said:


> Any difference in the 'look' of the various sections coated Matt?
> 
> Alan W


On the day perhaps slight nuances Alan, I will report back after a wash and dry mate :thumb: But not enough to base a choice on


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

stangalang said:


> On the day perhaps slight *nuances* Alan, I will report back after a wash and dry mate :thumb: But not enough to base a choice on


I though Dave KG had exclusivity on the use of the word nuances! :lol:

Alan W


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## Sti_Brumby (Aug 19, 2010)

Great test, id go opti coat. its been proven and its permanent. 
clint.


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## wanna veccy (May 7, 2009)

oh oh!!! hold the phone hasn't duragloss got links to something or another in the make up of one of the sealants that u haven't used? right thats it i'm off to start another debate about hens eggs.this bloomin testing products under your own circumstance and conditions,just for the sake of wasting *perfectly good super awsome sealants*. is just barmey.:lol:


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

So when is it getting washed?


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

chrisc said:


> So when is it getting washed?


It's gonna get a "hangover wash" tomorrow at some stage


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## J0lle (Apr 27, 2012)

Lets wait and see what keeps up appearances


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

BTW - If thats your RR dude I approve :thumb:

Sod the sealant test. Show love for what is my favourite beast of a motor (911 and RR :argie: )


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## Sirmally2 (Feb 28, 2011)

Concours Car Care said:


> Sod the sealant test. Show love for what is my favourite beast of a motor (911 and RR :argie: )


Here Here!!!! I want one


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## blake_jl (Apr 26, 2008)

FWIW - our network has Opti-Coated over 500 cars in the last 18-24 months and a number of applicators use Eraser and there have been no issues.


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## Big Buffer (Jan 1, 2011)

Will definately look forward to the results on this one for sure.
As for reading through all the posts, and granted everyone has a different view on sealants and have there favourite, they are all designed and tested to work.
I think it is a great test for people who are so busy to even have half an hour to wash a car. 
It is a practical test and after time everyone will see how different each coating is.
Personally i would go with something that is easy to apply, quick curing and long lasting.

There are always gonna be sceptics and i dont think a huge debate was expected by the op and was purely intended as test or you all.

Thanks Matt for this will make things easier for me to decide on a coat once i get my car how i want


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## Big Buffer (Jan 1, 2011)

Concours Car Care said:


> BTW - If thats your RR dude I approve :thumb:
> 
> Sod the sealant test. Show love for what is my favourite beast of a motor (911 and RR :argie: )


Defo is his motor mate. Looks even better in the flesh so to speak


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## Hoppo32 (Nov 18, 2008)

BespokeCarCare said:


> Hi Lee
> 
> Eraser was used as it has been shown to remove more oils etc from the paint so in turn doing a better job than IPA as the bonnet had just been machined we need to make sure that the bonnet was very clean for all the sealants
> 
> ...


I did my own test with this on the last car i machined. I used IPA, Eraser & U-Pol panel wipe and to be totally honest the panel wipe wiped the floor (no pun intended) with Eraser & IPA. It removed the polishing oils faster, cleaner and using less product than the other two. Gtechiq are even recommending using panel wipe before EXO as it leaves a cleaner suface.
I must admit though i do like using Eraser as a final wipedown on a car before LSP.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Hoppo32 said:


> I did my own test with this on the last car i machined. I used IPA, Eraser & U-Pol panel wipe and to be totally honest the panel wipe wiped the floor (no pun intended) with Eraser & IPA. It removed the polishing oils faster, cleaner and using less product than the other two. Gtechiq are even recommending using panel wipe before EXO as it leaves a cleaner suface.
> I must admit though i do like using Eraser as a final wipedown on a car before LSP.


panel wipe certainly cleans the best, but leaves it's own oils. I'm a big fan of panel wipe, but like you, I finish off with Eraser.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Concours Car Care said:


> BTW - If thats your RR dude I approve :thumb:
> 
> Sod the sealant test. Show love for what is my favourite beast of a motor (911 and RR :argie: )


Cheers Lee. Yeah she is beast, and very smooth, but she is a thirsty beast though, and seems to be getting worse! Used to be a steady motorway run got the best milage, now it just seems to get steadily worse until I pull off to come home where it starts to climb again, which is weird as I live in the hills and it's up and down the rev range


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## MAUI (Feb 1, 2008)

Kap01 said:


> I disagree with EVERYONE!


If I agree with you, we both be wrong.


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## josadler (Jul 14, 2010)

If you included Cquartz Finest, why not Nanolex Ultra and Gtechnic EXO?


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

josadler said:


> If you included Cquartz Finest, why not Nanolex Ultra and Gtechnic EXO?


They were products we had and I wanted to test, simples. We did do some fun testing with exo before this though, and I had used up my nanolex the weekend before, so it is what it is really, just good clean fun, if you pardon the pun


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## wanna veccy (May 7, 2009)

josadler said:


> If you included Cquartz Finest, why not Nanolex Ultra and Gtechnic EXO?


cause we know what EXO is good for.


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## adlem (Jul 6, 2008)

Firstly I want to say thanks to Matt for putting this up and I'm very interested in seeing how it pans out :thumb:

I'm a little disappointed and upset with how it's got out of hand and people jumping to conclusions and on their high horses 

The whole purpose of this 'test' is purely to see how these coatings work when application isn't perfect. As has been said, not all of us have heated, sealed indoor workspaces at constant temperatures. As such does that mean we can never have/use nano-sealants??

This 'test' is very relevant to me, I could apply any of these to the letter but only having a driveway to work on what happens if it gets wet too soon? We all know that these products are going to be affected in some way but to what extent?
If for arguments sake they only last for 1 year as a result rather than 2-3 years in perfect application then it gives the weekend hobbyist some good information. I could then make my own mind up if the cost of the product for the amount of protection and ease of maintainance was for me. If it made life mega easy for a year I may well be tempted to buy it and use it knowing what I'm likely to get out of it if I did catch a rain shower too early for arguments sake rather than purely dismissing it :thumb:

The products applied were those that interested Matt, using the prep routine he uses on his car after doing previous panels. We had no EXO, but were able to see the benefits and disadvantages to it when applied 'incorrectly' as I turned up there with it on my car. Yes Finest is a pro only product, but again there were a few of us interested as to how it compares against the others *for a bit of fun*

Is that not the whole point? To have a play around and see what works for you??


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

adlem said:


> Firstly I want to say thanks to Matt for putting this up and I'm very interested in seeing how it pans out :thumb:
> 
> I'm a little disappointed and upset with how it's got out of hand and people jumping to conclusions and on their high horses
> 
> ...


Could no have put it better myself. :thumb: this test will also help me in a number of ways and look forward to the results.

Thanks Adlem and nice to meet you once more. :thumb:
With the amount of mile you and I do I am sure we will meet up once more soon.
Gordon.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

can we keep this (i think very interesting) thread on topic please guys, ta


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

What he said


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Seconded, on topic please guys.

A fun test using the products Matt had at the time, it's not a willy waving contest


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

So how these going been asked by brother to put one on is merc what steve and me did.I say steve first as he did most
thinking the opticoat stuff in the shringe


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## wanna veccy (May 7, 2009)

i'm seriously considering opti coat as my next sealant:thumb:


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Just a quick update guys. Was washed today, no vids as camera dead. All are still present, I would say zen xero and ceramishield are behaving best now, but it was washed in heavy rain o I was unable to dry it and sheet water on it. If anything the Aquartz seems to have slowed right down but having used this on other cars I think it may be down to the rain as it sheets fiercely


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

So which would you buy as need to get one this week?


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Depends what you are after chris. As an all rounder opticoat or ceramishield, or even standard cquartz. They all sheet and bead really well. 

A word to the wise though they are all faltering a little. I think keeping it dry after initial application for the rest of the day is the key to success of these products.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

*Update (wash 3)*

Ok we have a shift in power. Both zen xero and ceramishield are going strong, the other 3 are dying a death. This is just water behaviour, inspe tion under lights suggest no marring or scratching during wash stages, and I am not being particularly careful. At present I would say

Zen xero
Ceramishield
Opticoat and finest tied
Aquartz

My thoughts, premature wetting has played a huge part in making the coatings start to fail. And the fact Aquartz only had a short time between coats.

For the standard weekend detailer dodging sunshine and rain clouds I think a single stage coating such as ceramishield is the way to go, coupled with it's short cure time. If you have a canopy opticoat or Cquartz will be just as good.

Aquartz on the other hand is best left to unit work IMO. I have it on 2 cars elsewhere and it's fierce when applied properly, and has an eliment of filling properties which suits me for friends who just want a tidy up and something that let's them forget about their car


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Any update for this?


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

sm81 said:


> Any update for this?


Yes mate. They were all so week, and no longer rejeuvenating so I stripped them and applied echelon nano fil. As my last post, wanting the videos straight afterwards was my fault and ultimately the undoing of the coatings. I stand by my last post :thumb:


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

stangalang said:


> Yes mate. They were all so week, and no longer rejeuvenating so I stripped them and applied echelon nano fil. As my last post, wanting the videos straight afterwards was my fault and ultimately the undoing of the coatings. I stand by my last post :thumb:


I think wetting them so soon after application really did effect the sealants goes to show when manufacture says wait 12 hours before getting wet then do so.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Goodfella36 said:


> I think wetting them so soon after application really did effect the sealants goes to show when manufacture says wait 12 hours before getting wet then do so.


Exactly. This is why I think cquk is a very VERY good idea


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

stangalang said:


> Exactly. This is why I think cquk is a very VERY good idea


yes great for the home user being able to top with reload incase rain is due


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