# Wash Media for Rinseless Washing



## Guest (Apr 29, 2013)

I am a huge fan of Rinseless washing and currently use ONR, DG 931, Chemical Guys Hose Free Eco Wash and Ultima WW. For the last one year, I have been using a noodle wash mitt and then I tried the Gary Dean method. Yesterday, I used a MF Mitt and liked it a lot.

I would like to know from all of you, what kind of mitts work better with Rinseless washing and what is the difference between MF, Noodle, Terry, Chenile and Sheepskin Mitts.

More than the specific brands, I am keen to find out what type works better with RW as we don't have any suds while doing a Rinseless wash.


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## great gonzo (Nov 4, 2010)

I only use a dodo fantastic fur mucrofibre cloth, which works for me. I find a mitt holds to much product when using ONR. 
Gonz.


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

I tried different things and found the noodle mitt worked best for me


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## fethead (May 12, 2007)

Eurow shagpile are brill...as well as my Carpro sheep thing. Try Wolf's Mean Green. Its better than ONR IMHO. 

Richard


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## great gonzo (Nov 4, 2010)

lowejackson said:


> I tried different things and found the noodle mitt worked best for me


I have just got a cheap (but soft) noodle mitt to try, for a normal 2BM I use dodo's wookies fist but two goes in the bucket would empty my ONR solution. Lol.


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## great gonzo (Nov 4, 2010)

fethead said:


> Eurow shagpile are brill...as well as my Carpro sheep thing. Try Wolf's Mean Green. Its better than ONR IMHO.
> 
> Richard


Hi Rich
I might try this once my ONR runs out!
I tried dodos version which I like but found it works out a little more expensive than ONR. 
The Wolfs stuff looks cheap for 1 litre, has it got similar dilution rates to ONR?
Gonz.


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## fethead (May 12, 2007)

great gonzo said:


> Hi Rich
> I might try this once my ONR runs out!
> I tried dodos version which I like but found it works out a little more expensive than ONR.
> The Wolfs stuff looks cheap for 1 litre, has it got similar dilution rates to ONR?
> Gonz.


Greetings Gonzo

1:500 on the bottle but they do advise to use between 20-30ml per 10lts. I use 20 for wash and 20 in 1 lt for QD and 20 in 5 lts for pre-spray. I love how MG keeps the wash media clean and the water turns dirty, something that ONR fails to do for me and I use the same wash procedure. 
I bought it and still have ONR! ONR is relegated to clay and pre wash duties now.
I use 1 1/2 ounces per 10 lts of ONR, so without doing the maths, MG maybe slightly cheaper.

Richard


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## great gonzo (Nov 4, 2010)

Cheers Rich

Yeah it's funny how ONR holds the dirt on your sponge/mitt. I use a second bucket to rinse out my cloths but it stays clean so I just use a few more cloth now. 
I will put MG on my ever increasing list of products I want to buy/try. 
Gonz.


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

fethead said:


> I love how MG keeps the wash media clean and the water turns dirty, something that ONR fails to do for me and I use the same wash procedure.





great gonzo said:


> Yeah it's funny how ONR holds the dirt on your sponge/mitt.


Guys, don't get carried away with the hype. What I've quoted above is exactly
how ONR is designed to work. I don't think Rich is comparing like with like.

I haven't used MG, but seeing that it comes from the Wolf stable tells me that
it's designed mainly for cleaning nano technology treatments. ONR is not 
designed for that purpose and can cause some difficulties. That is not to say
that ONR is flawed or rubbish. Horses for courses. Just because both products
are marketed as "rinseless washes" does not make them direct competitors.

Indeed, for the OP, there isn't a generic in rinseless wash technology, so the
wash media will probably vary wildly depending upon the product you choose, 
and the category of LSP you need to keep clean.

The fact that ONR keeps the water clean is its major selling point as rinseless
technology. It means that whaterever is left to evaporate on the paint dries
clean and clear. What ONR does is encapsulate the dirt with its polymers, that
do stick to certain types of wash media. In the bucket, they fall to the bottom.
Unless you are cleaning off sand or cement / stone dust from your paint, 99%
of dirt is dissolved in the water and rendered harmless anyway.

With nano finishes I believe that it's almost impossible for polymers of a size
that won't interfere with the finish to achieve similar dirt encapuslation. That
is why I'm contending that there's very little similarity between the two 
products. If you aren't using a nano technology LSP, then the sheer versatility
and effectiveness of ONR are still its strongest selling points!

Regards,
Steve


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## fethead (May 12, 2007)

Lowiepete said:


> Guys, don't get carried away with the hype. What I've quoted above is exactly how ONR is designed to work. I don't think Rich is comparing like with like.* They are both marketed as Rinseless washes, so a comparison is justified.*
> 
> I haven't used MG, but seeing that it comes from the Wolf stable tells me that it's designed mainly for cleaning nano technology treatments.
> *From the Wolf's stable doesnt mean that its solely designed for nano LSP.* ONR is not designed for that purpose and can cause some difficulties. * By leaving its own polymers, ONR would reduce or inhibit the function of nano LSP, whereas MG doesn't, as it just cleans.* That is not to say that ONR is flawed or rubbish. Horses for courses. Just because both products are marketed as "rinseless washes" does not make them direct competitors. *I personally think it does.*
> ...


*All bold writing is by Richard in response to Steve's post.*
*Cheers for the reply Steve, I'm looking forward to our discussion,
Regards,
Richard*


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## fordfan (Feb 4, 2013)

Well having been used to one for quite a while now i can vouch for two things from v1 to current v3 (only onr not the wash and wax thing) 

* still stains wash media... Whatever I have used be it mf, sponge, towel all get stained... V3 the staining seems to be a bit less but still does happen 

* dirt does accumulate at the bottom... I use the 2bm and the rise bucket water which starts out clear get absolutely black and when I throw the water off there is a heavy layer of dirt and grime at the bottom.. 
This again has been there from v1 but more pronounced in current v3

I do feel a little uncomfortable with wash media getting dirty but so does a sponge or such with shampoos also... Nothing remains clea the throughout the wash


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## fethead (May 12, 2007)

fordfan said:


> Well having been used to one for quite a while now i can vouch for two things from v1 to current v3 (only onr not the wash and wax thing)
> 
> * still stains wash media... Whatever I have used be it mf, sponge, towel all get stained... V3 the staining seems to be a bit less but still does happen
> 
> ...


When transferring dirt from the car through to the bucket, there will always be remnants left in each place ie Wash and Rinse buckets, as well as the wash media.
I'm new to this method (over a year now), but totally converted. I washed the car using a hose yesterday and got soaked. It was like I got water everywhere except the car:lol:
I still only use a single bucket when rinseless washing, but will wash the car tomorrow using 2.

regards,
Richard


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

fordfan said:


> I do feel a little uncomfortable with wash media getting dirty but so does a sponge or such with shampoos also... Nothing remains clea the throughout the wash


That's the "scary" bit with ONR, but it's nothing to worry about. The polymers
in ONR are behaving as intended. I almost always gasp at what comes out
when I do a rinse-out of the noodle mitts before they go into the washing
machine.

To Rich,
Sorry, all you are doing is denying a long-proven technology. While you hold
that view, there is nothing more to be said... The more you describe your
ONR experience, the more I see it as you *not* comparing like with like. 
The more that you describe the Wolf product the clearer it becomes that it is
definitely not a direct competitor with ONR. BTW, I see that as a good thing!
There has long been a gap in the market that ONR could not fill.

As far as drying goes, ONR is a perfect drying aid - perhaps not so on nano! 
Using _dry_ MF cloths at times other than when buffing-off protective potions
is an almost certain way to induce swirls. It also increases inducing static.
Using the technique described here, you *can* watch ONR evaporate,
and it brings with it its own sense of satisfaction as there is no possibility of 
water spots. Why? Because it dries clear, as intended.

Regards,
Steve


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## ph0 (Aug 16, 2012)

I'm yet to try ONR. Need some time and weather. But i really think that polymers in ONR must keep water clean and wash media dirty because that's how polymers work. I hate when people bring this BETTER THAN nonsense. Come on ONR was the first, heavily tested and proved it's good product. Just because you think WASHING WITH DIRTY WATER is better for you doesn't mean ONR is bad...


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## fethead (May 12, 2007)

Lowiepete said:


> That's the "scary" bit with ONR, but it's nothing to worry about. The polymers
> in ONR are behaving as intended. I almost always gasp at what comes out
> when I do a rinse-out of the noodle mitts before they go into the washing
> machine.
> ...


Enlighten me on why I'm denying the long proven technology? I fully accept the technology and use it for washing my car. I have not noticed any wash marring from either ONR or MG. They are both rinseless washes, but incorporate different technologies. I need not understand the whole technology, in order to use it and evaluate it. I am in my right to compare and feel that MG is better than ONR - I am open to new products and ideas, whereas you appear to be closed off to new products, even though you havent used MG. Wolfs are not specific about the technology, so a clinical direct comparison is not available at present.
Answer me this question - Will you deny or confirm that ONR and MG are rinseless washes?

Regards,

Richard


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## fethead (May 12, 2007)

ph0 said:


> I'm yet to try ONR. Need some time and weather. But i really think that polymers in ONR must keep water clean and wash media dirty because that's how polymers work. I hate when people bring this BETTER THAN nonsense. Come on ONR was the first, heavily tested and proved it's good product. Just because you think WASHING WITH DIRTY WATER is better for you doesn't mean ONR is bad...


Polymers are meant to surround the dirt and protect the paint from marring. I want the polymer surrounded dirt to deposit in the bucket, so as to reduce the risk of wash media marring paint work.

Try this concept - if you take a cut diamond and cover it in a polymer the polymer will most likely, unless fully designed to, wrap itself around the shape of the diamond, softening its edges, but only slightly softening - risk of diamond cutting glass will be slightly reduced.

Just because something was first doesn't mean that it will always remain first. New companies with different technologies will come along to challenge the perceived order of things.

I wouldn't want to buy an old Nissan GTR, when the new one is so much better.

Regards,

Richard.


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## ph0 (Aug 16, 2012)

OPT improved ONR since it first release. Now it's 2012 formula, maybe they will improve it again. Old nissan or new nissan it's still from nissan. Wolf is different company.


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## fethead (May 12, 2007)

ph0 said:


> OPT improved ONR since it first release. Now it's 2012 formula, maybe they will improve it again. Old nissan or new nissan it's still from nissan. Wolf is different company.


Every company will improve its formula or fall by the wayside. I feel they will definitely improve it, its about how it compares to the competition in that particular market place!

When comparing cars, we aim to compare between cars in the same category - supercar vs supercar, but it is not unheard of to compare outside of a category due to a car that changes the playing field. A GTR is such an example.

In the field of detailing...there is currently talk that a QD has changed the playing field and acts more like a sealant. This is only a single persons perspective, but there is a growing number that feel that they have a point and that the product is good enough for the comparison.

Regards,

Richard


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## fethead (May 12, 2007)

Just to clarify...I have stated that IMHO I prefer Mean Green to ONR and having used both, I am in a good position to compare them. 

I respect all perspectives about products and techniques...its a way to learn and remain fluid. 

I remain open to new products and techniques and will refrain form positioning 1 product or technique at the top of any other. 

Regards,

Richard


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

fethead said:


> Will you deny or confirm that ONR and MG are rinseless washes?


It's a redundant and obtuse question. ONR is totally unlike another rinseless
wash - CG Hose Free Eco - and is clearly totally different again to the Wolfs
product. All I have contended is that you are not comparing like with like.
Bananas and Papayas are both tropical fruit, but bear very little comparison,
other than perhaps colour, otherwise.

If there's one person who wholeheartedly embraces new technology, it's me!
Ever since I wrote the FAQ on ONR around 2.5 yrs ago, the world, his brother
and sister have offered me potions to test, mostly formulated as attempts to 
rival it. As a result, I have in my armoury a whole host of waterless and 
rinseless wash bottles and so far, there are few contenders that come near to
toppling ONR from its versatility and simplicity of use. If there was, believe me,
I'd be crowing about it.

If you count the fact that ONR wash mix doesn't usually discolour as being a 
negative, then you are definitely denying the technology and its purpose!



ph0 said:


> I'm yet to try ONR. Need some time and weather. But i really think that polymers in ONR must keep water clean and wash media dirty because that's how polymers work. I hate when people bring this BETTER THAN nonsense. Come on ONR was the first, heavily tested and proved it's good product. Just because you think WASHING WITH DIRTY WATER is better for you doesn't mean ONR is bad...


I couldn't have phrased that any better! :thumb:

Regards,
Steve


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## waqasr (Oct 22, 2011)

Where can i order MG, ive tried ONR and want to try something else now, it was out of stock at shinerama last i checked and now i cant even find it there!


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## fethead (May 12, 2007)

waqasr said:


> Where can i order MG, ive tried ONR and want to try something else now, it was out of stock at shinerama last i checked and now i cant even find it there!


Try here -

http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/wolfs...wash-and-wipe-1-litre.php?manufacturers_id=71

Regards,

Richard


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## fethead (May 12, 2007)

Lowiepete said:


> It's a redundant and obtuse question. ONR is totally unlike another rinseless
> wash - CG Hose Free Eco - and is clearly totally different again to the Wolfs
> product. All I have contended is that you are not comparing like with like.
> Bananas and Papayas are both tropical fruit, but bear very little comparison,
> ...


I'm comparing like for like - "rinseless washes".
I'm find it difficult to believe that ONR can totally encapsulate dirt that it makes it invisible in water. I feel that the purpose of a wash such as this is to transfer dirt from car, through wash media to a bucket. Just like a normal wash with the fact that NO wash process will keep wash media totally clean. My findings have found ONR to keeps the dirt in the wash media(some in the bucket), therefore increasing the rick of wash media marring. I understand that ONR encapsulates dirt using polymers, which will reduce wash marring, but I think that the dirt should transfer off the wash media.

I was hoping for an adult discussion on this topic, but you seem to want to be personal about it. Stating that I am being obtuse is a derogatory remark on my intelligence. It seems that you are very defensive at me trying to topple your beloved ONR from the pedestal you placed it on...all I am saying IMHO that I like MG. Simple. Your comment about YOU wrote the FAQ's and that people around the world send you samples to try, is Narcissistic. Thanks for your input, but I will be leaving the discussion between us at this point.

Regards,

Richard


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## ph0 (Aug 16, 2012)

fethead said:


> Steve, I'm finding you narrow minded and narcissistic if you feel that just because you wrote a How too guide and have had people send you samples for your opinion, that you are the GOD of eco washing. You're just a person with an opinion, the same as I. Stop being obtuse yourself and come down off your high horse!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Richard


Who brought that IS BETTER THAN? You did.
ONR fails to make dirty water, oh wow, this means ONR is bad eh? As i said MG is acting like ordinary shampoo, making water dirty, washing with dirty water is bad m'kay?


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## fethead (May 12, 2007)

ph0 said:


> Who brought that IS BETTER THAN? You did.
> ONR fails to make dirty water, oh wow, this means ONR is bad eh? As i said MG is acting like ordinary shampoo, making water dirty, washing with dirty water is bad m'kay?


I removed the quote comment above, to rewrite it as I felt it was too personal.

I like MG better than ONR. I'm not saying that MG is the BEST...I like it! 
Regarding a normal wash process...dirt largely transfers from car through wash media to the bucket. A process that I have found ONR to have problems with, as the wash media becomes very dirty. 
I'm not washing with dirty water as my drying towel remains clean. I personally feel that my wash technique is OK, It does the job of cleaning my car, whilst minimising wash marring.

Regards,

Richard

PS - why do people become so defensive about a product or techniques. Lets get a perspective that this is all about cleaning cars and not a major thing like religion or world hunger. 
Anyone has the right to challenge a persons ideas on products/techniques. I like what I like, but I don't put things as being the BEST. I'm not in that position of tried everything, using scientific methods to come to an unbiased decision about which is best. 
I feell that this topic has gone way off the original posters question and will therefore not be continuing with the debate.

Wash on peoples,

Richard


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## ph0 (Aug 16, 2012)

No, you said it's "It's BETTER THAN ONR IMHO ". This is how hype is built up in these forums. Someone tells something and bam you got people asking where to get it because they want to try something new. Who cares if the sponge/mitt or whatever gets dirty? That's how ONR works, MG works different, but you say like it's a very bad thing and you are making false statements, that something is better than something else. Also i like that part when someone says wolf's MG leaves nothing behind and ONR leaves polymers. How a rinse less wash can leave nothing behind it? Just like hyped shampoos, come on do you have some laboratory to test whether it leaves something or not, if not you are just spreading bs. Manufacturers claim a lot of stuff, but not everything is truth.
And i'll be honest, i'm skeptical about Wolf's chemicals. I don't like them since i first tried their decon gel, which i thought would be same iron-x but cheaper, but it wasn't. Same with their coatings losing beading and sheeting, but that's different story.


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Guys, I think that it's time we got back on topic, in simple deference to the
OP. I'll now give another stark contrast between 2 different rinseless washes
simply by use of wash media. Microfibre noodle-mitts or grout sponges still
rule with ONR. If you use a lambswool mitt or anything similar, it is simply not 
recommended. This is because the way that ONR's polymers behave, you will 
have no end of trouble rinsing out the dirt, even with very energetic rinsing!

Whereas, the very same mitt used with CG HFE (Hose Free Eco) will probably
wash more effectively than anything else, especially on wheels and wheel
arches, where you are likely to fill the mitt with dirt. The water in the bucket
will discolour instantly. However, after nearly 4 years of use, I have yet to
either rinse or physically dry my wheels, or ever felt the need. If you ever
thought ONR was scary, HFE seems to break more taboos than ever, but I'd
not be without it!

As far as ONR is concerned, probably the best guidance is offered by OPT
themselves with their washmitt developed specifically for ONR. The closest to
that is probably the grout sponge, or even a fully natural sponge.

Tomorrow, I'll be out there preparing the car for the Spring Show at Duxford.
I'm looking forward to trying out the Bilt Hamber trial potion manufactured
to rival ONR. I'll be giving that a full work-out, and it'll be interesting to see
whether its polymers, if they exist, behave similarly to those in ONR. More
anon...

Regards,
Steve


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## fethead (May 12, 2007)

Lowiepete said:


> Guys, I think that it's time we got back on topic, in simple deference to the
> OP. I'll now give another stark contrast between 2 different rinseless washes
> simply by use of wash media. Microfibre noodle-mitts or grout sponges still
> rule with ONR. If you use a lambswool mitt or anything similar, it is simply not
> ...


Good luck in preparation for the show. I look forward to your opinion on future products.

Regards,

Richard


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

The BH stuff does look interesting and look forward to your review


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## Guest (May 4, 2013)

When is the BH stuff going to be available in the market?


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## ph0 (Aug 16, 2012)

Tried ONR yesterday. Really impressed with it It cleaned paint really well since my car was pretty dirty. Smell reminds me cherry and i liked it. Used sponge instead of wool mit and i guess i did the right thing and yes, sponge got very dirty but looked alright and i was pretty confident that it wasn't scratching paint anyway:thumb: Big surprise was when i was washing sponge at home after car wash:doublesho But it came really clean after wash with soap few times:thumb:


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

supernaut said:


> When is the BH stuff going to be available in the market?


I don't know. There is a thread in the manufacturers' section,
but I haven't been following it too closely. It's quite possible
that's a mistake on my part.

If I was not on my tablet, which is still a tad new to me, I'd
put up a link - I'll probably rectify that when I get on the proper
machine 

Regards,
Steve


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

ph0 said:


> Big surprise was when i was washing sponge at home after car wash:doublesho But it came really clean after wash with soap few times:thumb:


Hopefully, that should help convince peeps on how well ONR 
_does_ encapsulate the dirt. Glad that you liked using it!

Regards,
Steve


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## fordfan (Feb 4, 2013)

I use a Noodle Mitt or dodo foam / mf sponge for using onr and my BH Auto wash shampoo... 

And yes wash media does clean out well in the washing machine except the loss of color which onr seems to does over a period of time... No dirt is left behind on the media 

And even with RW I prefer using a separate else bucket for my comfort as I like seeing the clean blue onr in the bucket even after the wash

Another interesting pointer is that the blue onr bucket remains almost same color throughout the wash even though the wash media gets stained which to me indicates that whatever loose dirt does get onto the mitt does get transferred to the rinse water bucket and the fact can be observed by the water bucket turning from clear to black and the onr bucket remaining almost same blue throughout 

Not sure if I managed to get my point across


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