# Leaking Roof - responsibility



## pxr5 (Feb 13, 2012)

Hi. I am the landlord of the property on the right in the picture below. There is a leak on the lead flashing between the 2 houses. This leak is not effecting my tennant or my house, but water is going in to next doors top bedroom.

They think that this flashing is part of my roof (if that's so I suppose I own much of their roof, if one takes a straight up line to split ownership) and I am responsible for the repair. To me this is a shared area and I am willing to pay half of the repair fee. I've checked our deeds and it doesn't go into this sort of detail.

My property managers are unsure, and initially thought it is my responsibility, but are seeking further advice from a surveyor.

Anyone with any opinion or expertise in this matter.


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

How old is the building? 

Lots of new builds come with a 10 year guarantee. 

I personally thinks the guttering belongs the the house on the left. 

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## pxr5 (Feb 13, 2012)

The house is over 10 years old and the leaking is coming from the flashing between the roofs, not the guttering. About here:


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## Sam6er (Apr 3, 2016)

Common sense would dictate its theirs to sort as your roof line is quite clear to see and that part is part of their roof and joining onto yours. Unfortuantely in law common sense doesnt seem to exist in most cases. 

E.g. if your roof had a leak and you had to remove part of theirs that joins onto yours to fix the leak its your responcibility. If they had a leak (which they do) and in repairing their roof they caused damage to yours they should be liable. 

Im no lawyer btw just taking a common sense approach


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## Bill58 (Jul 5, 2010)

I think that should be shared as water runs from both roofs into the valley.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

Id go with shared. 

Unless you have a fence separating the houses outside and its on their side of the fence so to speak.


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## Paul08 (Jun 1, 2014)

I'd say if they have any decency they would go half. Same with fences, really annoys me when neighbours wont contribute. If they won't pay half then I'd tell them where to go!


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## pxr5 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies. I see it like this. My house is not affected, and I'm willing to go 50/50 for the repiar to what I see as a shared area. If not I may just leave it and see what transpires.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

pxr5 said:


> Thanks for all the replies. I see it like this. My house is not affected, and I'm willing to go 50/50 for the repiar to what I see as a shared area. If not I may just leave it and see what transpires.


Agreed, I would leave it unless they wanted to pay 50% of costs. You've done your bit.


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## GP Punto (May 29, 2007)

If your neighbour suffers damage then they may claim from their insurance. that insurance company may hold you responsible for the cost of the neighbours damage. 

They would need to attempt to show negligence on your part and that might be that your neighbours have previously said there is a problem and you do nothing about it.

If they are successful then your insurers will need to pay for the neighbours loss.

Suggest that you investigate the cost of making good the roof, the problem is that if the roof is your side of the property then the neighbours cannot do anything about making good.


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

You say that the leak is currently finding its way into next doors bedroom, so how did you become aware of this and what do the neighbours have to say on the matter ?

Assuming that relations are still good with the neighbours, then i would personally suggest to your neighbours that it is in everyone's best interest to get this repaired quickly, before the leak spreads and causes further damage.

In the absence of clearly documented liability on either side, you are willing to get three estimates for the repair, with a view to splitting the cost if it is reasonable. 

See what they say. They may agree with you.

If it becomes entrenched or a battle, then you could point out that it is in no ones interests to get into a drawn out and costly legal argument about liability for a roof leak, whilst winter is fast approaching.....


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## pxr5 (Feb 13, 2012)

I bacame aware as the neighbours landlord's letting agent contacted my letting agent.

I agree that it needs to be sorted ASAP, but I've heard nothing from my own letting agent since, so I'll leaved it to them to sort out - that's what I pay them for.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

pxr5 said:


> I bacame aware as the neighbours landlord's letting agent contacted my letting agent.
> 
> I agree that it needs to be sorted ASAP, but I've heard nothing from my own letting agent since, so I'll leaved it to them to sort out - that's what I pay them for.


Agreed.

And to be honest, I reckon they'd have a hard time proving its your responsibility from looking at the picture anyway


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## pxr5 (Feb 13, 2012)

My letting agent rang me today and the other landlord insists it's my responsibility (he has apparently paid out £600 for some work on his roof and guttering and won't pay anymore). I replied that I will still go 50/50, and that's it. I've checked my deeds and they don't go into this sort of detail. My house is not affected, so I'm just going to leave it and see what he wants to do from there.


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## Hairy Pete (Oct 2, 2012)

The ultimate boundary would be your attic dividing wall and imagine it cut through the roof. Also in many cases of communal roofs in flats the dormers belong to the actual flat that has the window.

The gully that you circled is all on your side i think...but where exactly is the water coming in , if its down in the corner its your neighbours problem.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

pxr5 said:


> My letting agent rang me today and the other landlord insists it's my responsibility (he has apparently paid out £600 for some work on his roof and guttering and won't pay anymore). I replied that I will still go 50/50, and that's it. I've checked my deeds and they don't go into this sort of detail. My house is not affected, so I'm just going to leave it and see what he wants to do from there.


He's paid out for £600 of work on his roof - how can you be sure it wasn't him who caused the problem in the first place?


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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

pxr5 said:


> Thanks for all the replies. I see it like this. My house is not affected, and I'm willing to go 50/50 for the repiar to what I see as a shared area. If not I may just leave it and see what transpires.


Can't say any fairer than that. And you thought they'd snap ur hand off :-/

Nowt more queer than folk. You don't know the value of good neighbours till there gone

They prob think he rich capitalist landlord can afford it! 

Can you be 100% sure it's not affecting yours? Water ingress can be the worst for damage.

Out of interest how much are we talking about?

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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

If the flashing is attached to your side of the boundary line then I think it would be your responsibility to maintain it. 

Chances are the only way to know for sure will be to employ a surveyer or something like that but its all going to cost $$$.

I would continue with the pragmatic approach of your happy to split the costs given its on the party join


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## pxr5 (Feb 13, 2012)

Well, that's a turn up. It turns out next doors landlord is actually a company and yesterday afternoon I got email from them via my letting agent.

It went into great detail about how much they had already spent and that it is 100% my responsibility and they will take me to court if I don't fix it ASAP, citing all the costs that I would incur, including all the work they have already had done. Which is a hell of a lot that I can't afford, excluding any court costs.

I haven't got the time, motivation or appetite to go through all that. Of course I was mad and under different circumstances I would fight to the death on this one as I am sure I'd not lose. Anyway I bit the bullet to authorise the work. It's £350 repair or £750 replace. I went for the former. 

Anyone know what sort of warranty repairs like this come with?

To be honest I feel most let down by letting agent, who have been pretty unhelpful in all this. Definitely going to consider changing them, or even taking it all on myself when I can get round to it.


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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

pxr5 said:


> It's £350 repair or £750 replace. I went for the former.
> 
> Anyone know what sort of warranty repairs like this come with?
> 
> To be honest I feel most let down by letting agent, who have been pretty unhelpful in all this. Definitely going to consider changing them, or even taking it all on myself when I can get round to it.


£350's not the end of the world and i assume the warranty will come down to the builder/roofer doing the work.

as for letting agents, what you paying them 12.5%? i feel they do very little for their cut and only come into use on the legal side if theres an issue with kicking them out. although this is something you can research and learn.

if your going to do it all yourself you need time and patience - to save some money. whats more important?


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

I wonder if you had contacted an architect who I presume would understand building regs and the law may have been able to help you,sad when the other party starts using bullying tactics. I'm afraid your letting agent has let you down in this instance ,i's be inclined to poy them and find a company who'll provide you with a proper service rather than a mickey mouse one.:thumb:


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## Banksy40 (Sep 5, 2012)

pxr5 said:


> Well, that's a turn up. It turns out next doors landlord is actually a company and yesterday afternoon I got email from them via my letting agent.
> 
> It went into great detail about how much they had already spent and that it is 100% my responsibility and they will take me to court if I don't fix it ASAP, citing all the costs that I would incur, including all the work they have already had done. Which is a hell of a lot that I can't afford, excluding any court costs.
> 
> ...


It would be worth getting whoever does the work to document what they do and see. If the damage could have been done by the work of the other company then you would have a right to claim, on the other hand it is proof that the job has been carried out to a satisfactory standard if there are issue moving forward.

I would have thought the party wall act would have been applicable here and specifically did they inform you that they were carrying out work near to the boundary? A cleverly worded email may be appropriate.

Maybe you even need to say you do not accept liability but are completing the work to prevent any damage to your own property. They may have seen you fixing the damage as accepting liability.


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## Taxboy (Aug 23, 2006)

pxr5 said:


> Well, that's a turn up. It turns out next doors landlord is actually a company and yesterday afternoon I got email from them via my letting agent.
> 
> It went into great detail about how much they had already spent and that it is 100% my responsibility and they will take me to court if I don't fix it ASAP, citing all the costs that I would incur, including all the work they have already had done. Which is a hell of a lot that I can't afford, excluding any court costs.
> 
> ...


This appears to be an area of uncertainty and I think this is supported by the other landlord bullying you by the threat of court action at the earliest opportunity. However sometimes you have to be pragmatic and for the sake of £350 the matter goes away without you incurring further costs and stress.

With regard to warranty you would need to speak to the contractor. Its not clear if you are paying the other party's invoice or getting the work done yourself. I would certainly recommend that you advise the other party you are only paying the costs on a without prejudice basis.

It is disappointing that your agent hasn't been the most helpful. However I think you have to accept that letting agents are more legal compliance, rent collection and organising repairs rather than property experts.

I note that you are considering taking over your own management. This is relatively straightforward but as I'm sure you will be aware the reduction in your costs potentially comes with increased stress e.g the tel call at 7 on a Friday night just as you are about to go out because the electrics have failed.

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## pxr5 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies and support guys. Makes me feel a bit better about all this.

@kingswood. I pay 10% letting agent fees. And you're right they seem to do very little for their money. In fact this is the first time we've had any problems that needed their management in the 13 years the house has been rented out.

@suspal. That's something else the letting agent's said they'd do - is get a surveyor involved. Never happened. I wouldn't say the other landlord was bullying either, but it was a shock to see the potential outcome if I didn't act.

@Banksy40. You make an interesting point about the damge possibly being caused by the other company's attempts, but like you say proving it would be almost impossible. In fact looking at the area that is damaged, it's surprising this would just fail without some external influence.

@Taxboy. I suppose you're right about the letting agent's area of responsibilities. Probably just that I'm feeling bad about all this. I just wished they'd taken more of a lead. Oh well it's a lesson to me for the future if nothing else.

To be honest I'm glad this is being sorted. Life is stressful enough at the moment without having to deal with all this as well.

I did have a little chuckle to myself when in a fit of anger I was going to send an email to my letting agent for them to send a bill to the other landlord requesting a monthly payment (back-dated of course) for the use of MY drain channel for the rain running of HIS roof.

Anyway thanks again for all the comments and support. Very much appreciated and assuring.


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## pxr5 (Feb 13, 2012)

OK, so the fix is not going to work and the whole lot needs replacing - £750. I've instructed the work to be done but asked if the letting agent can contact the other owners to offer a contribution. If the roles where reversed I would certainly go 50/50, but I'm not holding out much hope of any help. Ho hum.


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## DLGWRX02 (Apr 6, 2010)

I’m just wandering if there is a visible cause to the leaking? I mean lead doesn’t rot, it doesn’t split with out physical intervention, and them homes certainly don’t look old enough for the mortar securing the lead flashing to have crumbled and fell out. So it just seems odd that it should spring a leak with out human contribution.! And if they’ve just had repairs recently done, it does make one think ��

Who ever does the repairs, ide ask them to make a photo diary of all the work to see if there’s any evidence of mistreatment.


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Either pay to get a d3finitive answer to who’s responsible or pay to get it repaired. 

If you find out it’s shared even after the repair you can then proceed to bill them for it. 

Ask them what evidence they have that it’s yours.

*Why is the swear filter stopping definitiv3?????


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