# Swissvax detail



## markuk (Aug 20, 2007)

Had my car professionally detailed by a Swissvax authorised detailer, to see what i would be up against and it did look good, but a couple of washes later the swirls were back again in sun light, to say i was ****ed is an understatement, please tell me masking is not a part of detailing,
I will never recommend this guy to anyone, this has put me off swissvax products, as he was supposed to have used, best of show. 

This is NOT a dig at all Swissvax authorised detailers.

Rant over

mark


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

Well 2 things there :

A: What compound was used for the detail - how was it refined down, wiped down between stages ?

B: How have you been washing it ?

Masking is not part of detailing, a correction is called as much, a correction.

Maybe go back to your detailer and enquire ?

:thumb:


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Was it enhancing or full paint correction? If the latter then it should be as perfect as physically possible.


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## markuk (Aug 20, 2007)

The_Bouncer said:


> Well 2 things there :
> 
> A: What compund was used for the detail - how was it refined down, wiped down between stages ?
> 
> ...


Not sure what he used, but it did leave some holograms drivers sided. Washing the car is as follows, snowfoam, 2 bucket with grit guards in both buckets, lambs wool mitt, then rinse with pure water then dried with wooly mammoth.


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## PrestigeChris (Nov 17, 2009)

Did you pay for an enhancement or a full correction?


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## Mad Ad (Feb 7, 2011)

I would say give them a call and and see what they say, hopefully they can explain and get to the route of the problem quickly. maybe get some pic's up so we can see.


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## markuk (Aug 20, 2007)

Beau Technique said:


> Was it enhancing or full paint correction? If the latter then it should be as perfect as physically possible.


It was a enhancement detail, with a two stage machine polishing, still left bad holograms on drivers side,


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## markuk (Aug 20, 2007)

Mad Ad said:


> I would say give them a call and and see what they say. maybe get some pic's up so we can see.


I should have, but its be corrected now.


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## BRUNBERG (Oct 21, 2010)

holograms are unacceptable, enhancement is usually a 1 stage affair with 2 stage being more of a minor correction detail. Many people ask me for an enhancement then want a filler glaze to help mask the the remaining imperfections they didnt want to pay for the removal of

Too many people assume a "detailed" car should be flawless without understanding that there are many levels of detailing.


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## divine3779 (Jul 12, 2009)

BRUNBERG said:


> holograms are unacceptable, enhancement is usually a 1 stage affair with 2 stage being more of a minor correction detail. Many people ask me for an enhancement then want a filler glaze to help mask the the remaining imperfections they didnt want to pay for the removal of
> 
> Too many people assume a "detailed" car should be flawless without understanding that there are many levels of detailing.


Agree With Bru! What brand of wash mitt do you have mate?


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

As stated an enhancement is exactly that, it enhances but a 2 stage should have removed a significant amount but not everything....there are no excuses when it comes to a detailer getting something wrong (in a punters eyes), but everyone has a mistake in them, we are only human....the only thing i can say is if you have paid for an enhancement but had 2 stages I would say that the 2nd stage may just have been application of a glaze or cleaner making it a single stage....I often use a DA to apply a glaze as I am a lazy :doublesho yorkshire bloke and they dont exist....

did you give him the chance to rectify it....


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## divine3779 (Jul 12, 2009)

Reflectology said:


> As stated an enhancement is exactly that, it enhances but a 2 stage should have removed a significant amount but not everything....there are no excuses when it comes to a detailer getting something wrong (in a punters eyes), but everyone has a mistake in them, we are only human....the only thing i can say is if you have paid for an enhancement but had 2 stages I would say that the 2nd stage may just have been application of a glaze or cleaner making it a single stage....I often use a DA to apply a glaze as I am a lazy :doublesho yorkshire bloke and they dont exist....
> 
> did you give him the chance to rectify it....


Well said! :thumb:


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## hotwaxxx (Jul 12, 2007)

There lies the problem then.

When I offered enhancement details it was just a case of a final finish on a polishing pad enhancing the gloss moreso than dealing with swirlmarks. Of course, on some of the softer paints, enhancing will reduce swirlmarks greatly but when working on hard paints such as Audi's, BMW's etc enhancing would only touch the swirlmarks. 

Of course, different people have different definitions of enhance treatments. A two-stage could quite possibly be a final finish polish with the second round of machine polishing being the application of a filler or glaze as has already been said. 

If you opted for a full correction detail, then there should be little or next to no swirlmarks after the detail has been completed.


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## scoobymad (Jun 14, 2011)

Cheers for the heads up,this guy is representing swissvax and making a crap job of detailing,he shouldn't be authorised as he is not doing the company any favours! I would have a word with Swissvax


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## DetailMyCar (Apr 19, 2010)

An Enhancement Detail that doesn't remove any swirls or fine scratches should just be a Valet in my opinion as the car may as well have just been hand polished / glazed and waxed....

If i do an Enhancement detail i'll still start off with something like Extra Fine / Fast cut if needed, and then refine it with final finish or Ultrafina to make sure there are now holograms or anything but I would feel i'd be ashamed to let someone see a load of swirls on the car after I'd spent all day working on it - Fair enough you have to work really hard to get it done in 1 day but it's definitely possible!

I think if people have their car machine polished by any sort of detailer they should expect the swirls to be greatly reduced, just if they pay for a full correction detail they can expect all swirls and a lot of scratches to be gone completely.

If someone showed me a car that had been machine polished by a detailer but it still had loads of obvious swirls I'd certainly not recommend them to anyone, would you???


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## divine3779 (Jul 12, 2009)

markuk said:


> Had my car professionally detailed by a Swissvax authorised detailer, to see what i would be up against and it did look good, but a couple of washes later the swirls were back again in sun light, to say i was ****ed is an understatement, please tell me masking is not a part of detailing,
> I will never recommend this guy to anyone, this has put me off swissvax products, as he was supposed to have used, best of show.
> 
> This is NOT a dig at all Swissvax authorised detailers.
> ...


I think some of you are jumping the gun abit here lads!! The OP said "a couple of washes later"...........
How do we know what his technique is like, for all we know he has a crusty old wash mitt, or even a sponge!
Be sensible lads!


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

nickg123 said:


> An Enhancement Detail that doesn't remove any swirls or fine scratches should just be a Valet in my opinion as the car may as well have just been hand polished / glazed and waxed....
> 
> If i do an Enhancement detail i'll still start off with something like Extra Fine / Fast cut if needed, and then refine it with final finish or Ultrafina to make sure there are now holograms or anything but I would feel i'd be ashamed to let someone see a load of swirls on the car after I'd spent all day working on it - Fair enough you have to work really hard to get it done in 1 day but it's definitely possible!
> 
> ...


my thoughts exactly which is why i dont do them, the majority of work i do are minimum minor correction details....although a single stage is listed on my site its very rare it gets used....


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

divine3779 said:


> I think some of you are jumping the gun abit here lads!! The OP said "a couple of washes later"...........
> How do we know what his technique is like, for all we know he has a crusty old wash mitt, or even a sponge!
> Be sensible lads!





markuk said:


> Not sure what he used, but it did leave some holograms drivers sided. Washing the car is as follows, snowfoam, 2 bucket with grit guards in both buckets, lambs wool mitt, then rinse with pure water then dried with wooly mammoth.


think that tells you hes not using a sponge mate :thumb:


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## divine3779 (Jul 12, 2009)

CraigQQ said:


> think that tells you hes not using a sponge mate :thumb:


Ok smarty pants! You know what I'm saying though....... Something doesn't add up mate!:thumb:


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## hotwaxxx (Jul 12, 2007)

nickg123 said:


> An Enhancement Detail that doesn't remove any swirls or fine scratches should just be a Valet in my opinion as the car may as well have just been hand polished / glazed and waxed....
> 
> If i do an Enhancement detail i'll still start off with something like Extra Fine / Fast cut if needed, and then refine it with final finish or Ultrafina to make sure there are now holograms or anything but I would feel i'd be ashamed to let someone see a load of swirls on the car after I'd spent all day working on it - Fair enough you have to work really hard to get it done in 1 day but it's definitely possible!
> 
> ...


Not necessarily. As was the case when I was detailing, I had three main packages; one of which was for gloss enhancement. I gave a detailed (excuse the pun!) explanation of what was included and I did point out that this was not a swirl-removal or correction detail in any form. It was simply a detail to improve the level of gloss to the paintwork, i.e. burnishing/finishing/jewelling/refining (whatever you wish to call it) where I simply spent hours on the jewelling stage and concentrating on returning gloss to the paintwork.

Of course, I sometimes used Extra Find Compound and followed up with Ultrafina as returning gloss to dull paintwork often required a bit more than just a finishing polish, but by no means did I concentrate on removing swirlmarks (albeit anything other than RDS would come out anyways due to the polishing stage).

I'd specifically like to see how the Swissvax detailer in question has listed what his 'enhancement detail' includes. Does it include swirl removal or not?

I will say not many people opted for this option when booking their car in and the ones that did, were very happy with the return of gloss to the paintwork. Some people are happy for their car to just looking shiny and the gloss returned, rather than concentrating on the swirls.

I will add though that holograms on a paintwork after any kind of detail is unforgiveable!!!


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

in any respect it should last more than just a couple of washes....


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

divine3779 said:


> Ok smarty pants! You know what I'm saying though....... Something doesn't add up mate!:thumb:


yes lol.. i thought the same to be honest..

we can't be definite who's at fault here.. as we niether seen the detailers work or the OP's maintance washes...

thats why im not getting involved other than pointing out the above for a giggle :lol:


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## Dingo2002 (Apr 4, 2007)

CraigQQ said:


> yes lol.. i thought the same to be honest..
> 
> we can't be definite who's at fault here.. as we niether seen the detailers work or the OP's maintance washes...
> 
> thats why im not getting involved other than pointing out the above for a giggle :lol:


+1 on all above points.

These kind of threads are dangerous. You cannot base someones work on 1 instance. It's simply not fair. I empathise with the OP but posting his grievance on here rather than requesting information on how best to question the detailer when he contacts him/her is not the correct course of action.

It IS possible that this was a gloss enhancement package and as such swirls have returned following the use of a strong snowfoam and wash removing the filling agents. It's also possible that the lack of a decontamination stage (tar, iron, sap removal) has compounded the issue with the swirls.

It is ALSO possible that the detailer in question has made a bit of a balls up. However he should be offered the chance to explain, and if necessary rectify the issues.

Also mentioning Swissvax in the original post is unfair. The OP states at the bottom that it isnt a dig at swissvax authorised detailers but he had the common decency not to name the detailer so he should have also omitted Swissvax.


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## hotwaxxx (Jul 12, 2007)

Dingo2002 said:


> +1 on all above points.
> 
> These kind of threads are dangerous. You cannot base someones work on 1 instance. It's simply not fair. I empathise with the OP but posting his grievance on here rather than requesting information on how best to question the detailer when he contacts him/her is not the correct course of action.
> 
> ...


This. Totally agree with everything in this post.:thumb:


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## DetailMyCar (Apr 19, 2010)

hotwaxxx said:


> Not necessarily. As was the case when I was detailing, I had three main packages; one of which was for gloss enhancement. I gave a detailed (excuse the pun!) explanation of what was included and I did point out that this was not a swirl-removal or correction detail in any form. It was simply a detail to improve the level of gloss to the paintwork, i.e. burnishing/finishing/jewelling/refining (whatever you wish to call it) where I simply spent hours on the jewelling stage and concentrating on returning gloss to the paintwork.
> 
> Of course, I sometimes used Extra Find Compound and followed up with Ultrafina as returning gloss to dull paintwork often required a bit more than just a finishing polish, but by no means did I concentrate on removing swirlmarks (albeit anything other than RDS would come out anyways due to the polishing stage).
> 
> ...


Surely a gloss enhancement is only appropriate for a car that is already in great condition and not needing any swirl removal though?

To me if it's glossy but swirly, it's been valeted - That's just how I would see it really.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Dingo2002 said:


> +1 on all above points.
> 
> These kind of threads are dangerous. You cannot base someones work on 1 instance. It's simply not fair. I empathise with the OP but posting his grievance on here rather than requesting information on how best to question the detailer when he contacts him/her is not the correct course of action.
> 
> ...


+1 to this....far too much kicking off on here....anyones first port of call with any issues with a product or service should be directly (phone, email or letter) with the supplier or detailer.

I know no names were mentioned by the OP but why post on a public forum....just seems a bit norty and like you want to cause grief.


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## markuk (Aug 20, 2007)

It took him 12 hours and for most of the day he was on the phone,
If thats acceptable then im sorry , i just expected a bit more for £325.


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## banditbarron (Sep 1, 2007)

markuk said:


> It took him 12 hours and for most of the day he was on the phone,
> If thats acceptable then im sorry , i just expected a bit more for £325.


UH OHHHHHHH

£325 for enhancement? you had your pants pulled down i'm afraid!


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

banditbarron said:


> UH OHHHHHHH
> 
> £325 for enhancement? you had your pants pulled down i'm afraid!


Why would you say that? 
For a 1 day "paintwork enhancement" it's about the right charge for the South East.


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

nickg123 said:


> An Enhancement Detail that doesn't remove any swirls or fine scratches should just be a Valet in my opinion as the car may as well have just been hand polished / glazed and waxed....
> 
> If i do an Enhancement detail i'll still start off with something like Extra Fine / Fast cut if needed, and then refine it with final finish or Ultrafina to make sure there are now holograms or anything but I would feel i'd be ashamed to let someone see a load of swirls on the car after I'd spent all day working on it - Fair enough you have to work really hard to get it done in 1 day but it's definitely possible!
> 
> ...


Depends greatly upon the conversation between customer and detailer.

An "Enhancement detail" is purely that, it enhances the gloss and clarity of the finish, if defects come out along the way then it's a bonus, you will however get a better finish and outcome, even from a 1 stage machine polish done correctly, than that of a hand polished car.

If the customer wants swirl removal then it is a "Paint Correction", I have done many cars that appear to be lightly swirled, the swirls are generally removed fairly easily, but below these you find the random scratches which take a lot longer to remove.


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

I would second each of Robs points...price firstly as I would say this is a fair enough price for location on the other hand if 12 hrs is not 12 hrs because of phone calls then maybe a little strong cash wise....how can you be sure he was on the plhone for most of the day....did you hang around while he did it....

And secondly if the swirls on the surface were discussed then what lies beneath is additional and surely cannot be expected to be removed...although some will go the extra few yards if they feel time is on their side....


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

I agree totally with Rob

Enhancement says it all.

If someone doesn't want to pay for a correction detail and wants the paintwork enhanced then so be it. But they can't then complain that there are swirls still present.

I offer it and it is a popular service and sometimes (paint dependant) a 1 stage machine polishing session does remove defects and can be as good as a stage 1 correctional package.

All my enhancement details are 1 stage machine polished (Now with the excellent S17+) and waxed with Zymol Glasur or a sealant of the customers choice.

I spend a lot of time on these and I enjoy doing them.

Got a Range Rover customer on Monday who wants an enhancement and it has been explained exactly what he will get - He didn't want to pay for a correction


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## hotwaxxx (Jul 12, 2007)

Gleammachine said:


> Depends greatly upon the conversation between customer and detailer.
> 
> An "Enhancement detail" is purely that, it enhances the gloss and clarity of the finish, if defects come out along the way then it's a bonus, you will however get a better finish and outcome, even from a 1 stage machine polish done correctly, than that of a hand polished car.
> 
> If the customer wants swirl removal then it is a "Paint Correction", I have done many cars that appear to be lightly swirled, the swirls are generally removed fairly easily, but below these you find the random scratches which take a lot longer to remove.


Exactly what I said. My enhancement details concentrated solely on enhancing the gloss. I never concentrated on removing swirlmarks but machine polishing alone removed most of them. An enhancement detail is just that - enhancing the paintwork.


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## BRUNBERG (Oct 21, 2010)

As above, the price quoted seems fair fr an enhancement IMO. Correction work costs substantially more and involves much more work. 

Some valeters who claim to be detailers, wash, clay and apply a filler glaze by DA. Although you could argue that the filler has enhanced the look of the paintwork it is not a detail to my mind.

Too many people outside of the community do not realise that there are different levels of detail and therefore assume a detailed car should be flawless.

It's not fair for me to comment directly as I have not heard both sides of the story. Although if you are sure the correct wash technique was adopted then you should have contacted the detailer immediately to rectify anything overlooked assuming it's imperfections which should have been removed


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## DetailMyCar (Apr 19, 2010)

BRUNBERG said:


> As above, the price quoted seems fair fr an enhancement IMO. Correction work costs substantially more and involves much more work.
> 
> Some valeters who claim to be detailers, wash, clay and apply a filler glaze by DA. Although you could argue that the filler has enhanced the look of the paintwork it is not a detail to my mind.
> 
> ...


This is where the word Detailing really doesn't work / apply to a lot of jobs then as to me a fully Detailed car should mean flawless paintwork, no area left untouched, properly protected and all plastics, tyres, rubbers dressed and basically as the word says Detailed.... A "Detailed" car with loads of swirls left but a glossy over all look shouldn't really be referred to as Detailed in my opinion, surely that's just Valeted with a single stage machine polish thrown in?


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## BRUNBERG (Oct 21, 2010)

nickg123 said:


> This is where the word Detailing really doesn't work / apply to a lot of jobs then as to me a fully Detailed car should mean flawless paintwork, no area left untouched, properly protected and all plastics, tyres, rubbers dressed and basically as the word says Detailed.... A "Detailed" car with loads of swirls left but a glossy over all look shouldn't really be referred to as Detailed in my opinion, surely that's just Valeted with a single stage machine polish thrown in?


I appreciate your opinion mate but by your reckoning, how many of us actually detail?? I would say that 1 in prob 12-15 cars I do is a full correction detai, obviously I can't talk for the others.

I think enhancement "details" and minor correction "details" have their place but it's important that those paying for the work to be done understand what they are getting, then there's no issue.

I wish everyone wanted a detail to the spec you have described but most don't have the disposable income available for the work involved


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

I like the way the word Valeting keeps coming back.

Detailed is the US version for cleaning a car at the end of the day. And like hundreds of Detailers in the US like hundreds of Valeters here a fully detailed/valeted car is not necessarally paint correction. Theys guys clean cars.

I clean cars and offer a valet service, plus I also offer paint correction as a seperate company. My valeting company is called Splash N Dash.

I have 3 options I offer for paint correction with Mirror Finish ranging from an Enhancement, which I don't really like doing but rather the money in my pocket than the local weekend warior, to Minor Paint Correction through Full Paint Correction. I know times are tough and I quote £xxx for a full correction and they get quoted £yyy, sometimes several hundred quid cheaper, I just tell them to go for it.

I do a lot of Minor Paint Correction which is just swirl mark removel which I enjoy doing on a day by day basis.

I know a Valeter who was quoted a significant amount of money for a training course from a well known company and was told you don't need to be able to offer full correction to come on board.......


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Showshine said:


> I agree totally with Rob
> 
> Enhancement says it all.
> 
> ...


The way the market is going. Plus ££ to be made doing Enhancements as long as you don't go mad and get engrossed with every mark. 8 hours max on an Enhancement.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

nickg123 said:


> This is where the word Detailing really doesn't work / apply to a lot of jobs then as to me a fully Detailed car should mean flawless paintwork, no area left untouched, properly protected and all plastics, tyres, rubbers dressed and basically as the word says Detailed.... A "Detailed" car with loads of swirls left but a glossy over all look shouldn't really be referred to as Detailed in my opinion, surely that's just Valeted with a single stage machine polish thrown in?


Not everyone has £500-£1000 to pay for every job. Get real. Some jobs are only a few hundrew quid and they expect perfection as they see on here.

The market dictates prices as well as area.


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## markuk (Aug 20, 2007)

Reflectology said:


> did you hang around while he did it....


He did the job at my home, as it was a nice sunny day, so i was in the garden, i could hear him talking all day. Not getting all the swirls out ok, but i would have thought he might have improved on them, but leaving holograms on the drivers side to me, is a no no, this is what i got,
it was never rewashed and the leather was not done.

Wheels cleaned inside & out where accessible 
Pre snow foam wash
Engine bay cleaned & dressed
Full exterior wash using SwissVax car bath
Hand dried using special drying towels. 
Paintwork clayed to remove contaminants
2 stage machine polish carried out
Paintwork re-washed <------------------
Swissvax wax applied to paintwork
And door shuts
Wheel faces waxed with Swissvax autobahn wax
Tyres and exterior trims dressed
Exterior & interior glass polished
Light interior vacuum
Leather cleaned and conditioned <-----------------

P.S your all weekend worriors from HIS point of view, when i spoke to him about detailing world.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

markuk said:


> Wheels cleaned inside & out where accessible
> Pre snow foam wash
> Engine bay cleaned & dressed
> Full exterior wash using SwissVax car bath
> ...


Sounds about right with what he's done as enhancement bar the holograms bit which are industry standard by the looks of things :lol:

The bold section is one for debate but obviously yet another huge ego been grown and thinking there bigger than they are. We all got a rear end and all sit on the throne, just a lot of us can get the job right first time round:thumb:

So far in this topic it seems that a single stage polish to improve gloss and not neccesarily remove defects is enhancement. If you dont reduce levels of swirls / scratches then your not enhancing imo, your just burnishing the paint so its glossy. Price wise can be anywhere between £150 - £400 dependant on who details your car and where they / you are from as there is always travel costs etc involved plus its always costly more south bound. Regardless of what polishes / products your using or that the cars waxed with the latest blurb or Z solris, your only as good as your last job and tbh, the products only play a small part in that job:thumb:


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

I have to admit to not liking the enhancement stage but time is money and sometimes needs must....ive just been asked to go to Anglessey to do a full correction but the fella was reluctant to pay for my fuel and accommodation, unfortunately these as Scott has said have to be factored in and if they want to budget for a job then expect to get what you have paid for....the thing is the guy you had has slated DW, is a SV Authorised Detailer (when there are a few on here) but cant leave an "enhancement" job without holograms....

As regards to gloss enhancing I could rename my protection detail as Gloss enhancing as pre cleaners/glazes are always applied by machine which gives me a more satisfactory result for the customer....we can all hide successfully but can everyone remove successfully without leaving their mark....apparently this chap couldnt....


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## DetailMyCar (Apr 19, 2010)

Mirror Finish said:


> Not everyone has £500-£1000 to pay for every job. Get real. Some jobs are only a few hundrew quid and they expect perfection as they see on here.
> 
> The market dictates prices as well as area.


I never once said people should spend £500-£1000 on a full correction detail, i am just saying that TO ME (my opinion) if a car turned up with loads of swirls on it, and someone said they had paid to have it DETAILED, i would instantly think that guy was poor, and that a DETAILED car shouldn't have loasds of obvious Swirls on it..........

ANY form of Detailing a car should involve removal / reduction of some swirl marks, even if they choose to pay for 1-Day enhancement detail including a 1 or 2 stage machine polish, i personally would be ashamed to take money from someone (circa £200-300) for Detailing their car and it having just as many swirls as it did before, only now the paint is glossy....

To me that's just not detailing and is no more then having the car valeted locally with a hand polish and wax...


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## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

Nick, i really think your not familiar with the meaning of the word detailing.

Detailing has nothing to do with paint correction.

Defect removal has everything to do with paint correction. 

You are completely adamant that DETAILING as you put it should result in a swirl free car, this is ABSOLUTELY NOT THE CASE. I couldn't stress that enough


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## Dingo2002 (Apr 4, 2007)

Miglior said:


> Nick, i really think your not familiar with the meaning of the word detailing.
> 
> Detailing has nothing to do with paint correction.
> 
> ...


+1

Defect removal is just one level of process available during detailing and many levels of detailing exist.

The use of the term detailing in the US is, as someone already pointed out, used to describe a valet but i don't think it really should have the same meaning here as the term valet is already widespread. To me a detail is a step up from what a valet offers and what sets aside a detail from a valet to me is the attention to detail given to each stage in the process of washing and cleaning a car. 
You could do a simple "detail" which involves no polishing whatsoever but simply finishes with an LSP over fully cleaned and prepped paintwork. That to me is you basic "detail".
You then have an enhancement detail which involves using a gloss "enhancing" polish or glaze which fill marring in the paint to give the impression of a flatter paint surface but with minimal risk and lower cost. 
Then you get you different levels of correction with basic swirl removal at the bottom right up to a full wet sand at the top.

In summary (and of course just my opinion) in lowest to highest grade order:


Basic valet - wash and wax - 1-2 hours duration
basic detail - pre-wash, wash, decontamination, LSP paying greater attention at each stage - 2-4 hours duration
enhancement detail - as basic with addition of glaze/filling polish - 5-6 hours duration
minor correction detail - as enhancement with addition of 1 stage defect removal using fine grade polish - 6+ hours duration
medium correction - as minor but 1 or 2 stage defect removal using 1 or 2 step polishes - 8+ hours duration
full correction - as medium but again using more compund grade polishes with up to 3 stages - 2 day duration
full wet sand - self explanatory POA


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## Bel (Mar 1, 2011)

Well, it didn't take long to find out who you're talking about just by pasting some extracts from your quote into Google 

He does appear on the list of Swissvax-approved detailers so if you feel you have a legitimate gripe then drop them a note,


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## DetailMyCar (Apr 19, 2010)

Miglior said:


> Nick, i really think your not familiar with the meaning of the word detailing.
> 
> Detailing has nothing to do with paint correction.
> 
> ...


Think what you like, my opinion is that simply if someone shows me a car that's been "Detailed" (as people are saying the next step on from Valeting) if it's covered in swirl marks then just how is that detailed?

All that's been done is a very thorough clean (high end valeting) - To me in my mind only a car that has had some attempt and removing swirls via machine polishing (Never said completely swirl free) can really be considered as detailed in any sense... otherwise it's just been thoroughly cleaned surely??

What benefit would there be to most people by having a detail that involves no swirl or defect removal? Should they not just clean it themselves or pay for it to be valeted by a decent valeter? To me paint correction of any sort is very much associated with Detailing as it's the next step up from what most valeters offer, and what most people wouldn't be comfortable (or have the knowledge) to do themselves...

I think most people paying a specialist detailer would be pretty shocked to think someone could spend all day on their car having an Enhancement detail charging them £250+ or whatever it is to find it looking all swirly in the Sun! I know i would be gutted at that as I know full well what can be done in one day having done loads of cars myself each taking 1 day with a thorough clean, clay, 2 stage machine polishing, waxing, interior cleaning etc.... I think some of you guys just get too carried away with the term Detailing and over complicating it as you're involved in it day to day - Try and step back and think from the general publics point of view, there needs to be a clear difference between a good valet and a detail.....

Most "outsiders" that like to keep their own cars clean would only want it detailed if it means you can do something they can't (i.e swirl / scratch removal)...

(All IMO of course)


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## Bel (Mar 1, 2011)

A key part of the OP's complaint has been lost in the discussion here:



op said:


> it did look good, but a couple of washes later the swirls were back again


*It did look good*.

It didn't look so good after two washes.

Surely even if filler polish was used to mask the swirls - nothing wrong with that - the wax coating should have kept it in place for longer than two washes (unless they were 6 months apart  ), but I can't help thinking that it must surely be down to technique rather than the original detail?

When swirls started reappearing on my car after a detail, I assumed it must be down to me.

It was good. I washed it. It wasn't so good. Ergo I probably did a bad job.

Perhaps I'm missing something here. If so, what is it?


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## hotwaxxx (Jul 12, 2007)

Everyone seems to be going round in circles in this thread.

People's understanding of 'detailing' seems to differ greatly. The OP could save a whole load of time simply by checking the website of the detailer who carried out the 'detail' and see what was offered for the money paid. 

As said previously, an enhancement is just that - enhancing the paint (improving the gloss level safely).

Correction is just that - correcting the paintwork (removing swirls and reducing RDS's safely).

As far as I'm concerned, if the OP opted for an enhancement, he seemed to receive that from the detailer in question. The paint looked good but it still had swirls (which would have only been removed had 'correction' treatment been opted for). Hologramming apart - I don't think the OP has an argument (from what I've read in his post).


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## Bel (Mar 1, 2011)

hotwaxxx said:


> The paint looked good but it still had swirls


I don't want to bang out about this, since I have no axe to grind either way, but that's really not what he said.

He said it looked good and the swirls *came back* after "a couple" of washes.

To my mind, that nullifies much of the discussion in this thread.


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

When i quote a customer I tell them exactly what they should expect.

I personally quote enhancements over 2 days.

I like to fully valet and clay the car on day 1 and spend 6 hours on day 2 machine polishing (1 stage). It is more DETAILED than a valet but IS NOT a full DETAIL including defect removal.

If a customer wants a defect free finish then they are advised to have a full correction detail. I have done some enhancements whereby the car is pretty much defect free due to the swirls being slight in the first place.

Some do enhancements in 1 day but for me it is my preference to do it over 2 days. 

I wouldn't personally just use a filler polish as the machining stage as I do like to crack into the swirls and get rid of as many as I can for the customer (Plus I feel good knowing they got more than they expected. I always try to do more for the client and time permitting I will do more.

Did a full valet on a 60 plate AMG merc this morning but due to the state of the paint on the bonnet, I fizzed over it with some S17+ and removed loads of defects (Didn't quote for it) but at the end of the day when she saw what I had done, she booked in her X5 and a girl who was there to do her nails booked her BMW in for a detail.

IMO you can never do to much for a client and thats what keeps me and them happy. I could have left early as I was finished in 3 hours but I stayed for the 4 hours i said I would and did a few extra bits for her.

She is now on a monthly plan with us purely because I was honest and up front and did what I could for them.

Enhancements/Details or valets, do what the customer expects and more and these threads won't appear


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## markuk (Aug 20, 2007)

Bel said:


> A key part of the OP's complaint has been lost in the discussion here:
> 
> *It did look good*.
> 
> ...


SORRY, it must be me then, as i only have 48 posts and no nothing about nothing


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## Bel (Mar 1, 2011)

Mark, number of posts has bugger all to do with it.

I'm just reading what you've written. It "looked good" and then after "a couple of washes", it didn't.

I'm sorry that you had what you think is a ****ty experience here, but even by your own account it's not at all clear that the detailer is in the wrong.

That's my honest take on it.


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## P.A.D (Jun 26, 2008)

Showshine said:


> When i quote a customer I tell them exactly what they should expect.
> 
> I personally quote enhancements over 2 days.
> 
> ...


This kind of service is so old school and seems to be missing a lot nowadays.

Great to see you taking this approach. As you mentioned it keeps the customer happy and keeps them coming back.

Well done to you Sir :thumb:

Russ


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

At the end of the day - if 'anyone' has a car that was detailed/enhanced/corrected in any form, as has been stated here there are many forms of correction/detail etc.

Then the first port of call is always the company/individual that carried out the work to discuss the problem/issue/feelings and come to a mutual understanding/resolution.

IMHO coming onto a public forum basically to say such & such did a crap job without having first discussed it with them & bringing a company/individual/ into possible disrepute is simply not cricket... as they say.

:thumb:


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

I can't talk for the detailer but back on topic.

What did he/she say when you pointed out that you were not happy?


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## BRUNBERG (Oct 21, 2010)

Showshine said:


> I can't talk for the detailer but back on topic.
> 
> What did he/she say when you pointed out that you were not happy?


As above what was the detailers reaction to your issue?


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