# ONR - First time yesterday...



## Marve (Jul 5, 2013)

So I had watched the videos, read the threads, had a slightly dusty but not dirty car to clean so thought I would go for it.

One question / query though... I used a Diall grouting sponge from B&Q and when I had it near to wheel arches or at the bottom of the doors, it picked up a bit of muck on the sponge. But it was impossible to get the sponge back to being yellow where it had been, it stayed a dark colour even with the most enthusiastic rinsing in the wash bucket.

Did I do something wrong? Is this the wrong sponge to use?


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## HITMANVW (Apr 29, 2013)

I used the same sponge last week. I found that my sponge was stained as well but didn't notice any marring introduced to my car when I did the front and rear bumpers. The polymers of ONR definitely kept dirt off the sponge while using the one bucket method.


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## Marve (Jul 5, 2013)

I also didn't notice any marring but as I am inexperienced, it still had me concerned.


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Marve said:


> ...it was impossible to get the sponge back to being yellow where it had been, it stayed a dark colour even with the most enthusiastic rinsing in the wash bucket.


That's ONR's polymers doing their thing. There is a small possibility that your
wash mixture was a tad too strong, however, if the results were not smeary on 
the paint, then don't bother too much. The sponge should clean up OK in some 
washing-up liquid.

Regards,
Steve


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## Marve (Jul 5, 2013)

Thanks Steve. I used 4 capfuls in 10 litres of water in my wash bucket. It did look a tad darker than what I remember being in your photos where you show the dirt collecting itself together at the bottom.


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## James Bagguley (Jul 13, 2013)

I have found the sponge and the wash water can get pretty grimy too, though i don't see any more marring than i had previously (i haven't machined my car yet)

I washed my car after a five week stint of not being able to get the time, it was pretty bad, but still the swirls are no worse than before.
My faith in ONR's capability is definitely growing, and i have no choice really, as my PW exploded recently!


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

In the days before I discovered DW using a 1 bucket wash I would always gently wipe just a small part of a panel, rinse and repeat. I would take a little bit of dirt on each wipe. I wouldn't be heavy for the first few wipes. Overall I never inflicted any real noticeable marks on my cars.

Now with ONR I use the same approach of being gentle, not trying to remove all of the dirt in one swipe and keeping the swipe short.

I keep the swipes in one direction and never scrub with a circular motion. Any swirls I create will always be in straight lines.


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## Guru (Aug 28, 2013)

This is probably my only gripe with ONR - the wash media doesn't get fully clean after rinsing. However, I have learned to live with it since it does not cause any actual harm.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Marve said:


> Thanks Steve. I used 4 capfuls in 10 litres of water in my wash bucket. It did look a tad darker than what I remember being in your photos where you show the dirt collecting itself together at the bottom.


That sounds like a very strong mixture.

But fwiw, my sponge does look grubby. No foreign bodies in it, but it doesn't look "clean." I've never tried washing it in washing up liquid though


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## Marve (Jul 5, 2013)

m1pui said:


> That sounds like a very strong mixture.


In the guide, Steve says "In the wash bucket...
in a soft water area it can be as low as 1 capful per 5L of water. Maximum,
for a hard water area, would probably be 2 capfuls."

I'm in South London so would class myself as a hard water area. So I was working on 2 capfuls for 5L, 4 capfuls for 10.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Marve said:


> In the guide, Steve says "In the wash bucket...
> in a soft water area it can be as low as 1 capful per 5L of water. Maximum,
> for a hard water area, would probably be 2 capfuls."
> 
> I'm in South London so would class myself as a hard water area. So I was working on 2 capfuls for 5L, 4 capfuls for 10.


Ah ok, i wasn't sure where you were from when I posted.

I was also wrong about my dilutions anyway. I'm also 4 (ONR) caps to my bucket (about 13l of water). I found a measuring cup ages ago that gave me the right dilution in one shot so had mistaken how many I use  Will go and edit my prior post to not cause confusion


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## Marve (Jul 5, 2013)

But then saying that, my wash bucket was a lot bluer than this one from Steve's guide...


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

If you're using a stronger dilution, it will look bluer and IIRC, Steve lives in a very soft water area.


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## Marve (Jul 5, 2013)

m1pui said:


> If you're using a stronger dilution, it will look bluer and IIRC, Steve lives in a very soft water area.


Makes sense :thumb:


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Lowiepete said:


> There is a *small possibility* that your wash mixture was
> a tad too strong, however, if the results were not smeary
> on the paint, then don't bother too much.


Just thought I'd highlight this. ONR was made for very much harder water than
here in the UK. If you didn't get smearing, then it's fine. I'd *not* advocate going
to a thinner mixture just to avoid the wash media staining a little. All you're
getting is an indicator that ONR is doing its thing. :thumb:

That bucket photo was taken in Cumbria where they have very soft water.

I tend to use noodle mitts for the single bucket wash and I always give them
a quick rinse with some washing-up liquid before they go into the washing
machine. I don't really study the amount of muck that comes out, though it
only goes to serve how well those polymers work.

Regards,
Steve


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## Marve (Jul 5, 2013)

Thanks Steve, I'll cut my dilution in half and just push harder with my sponge then. :thumb:


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Marve said:


> Thanks Steve, I'll cut my dilution in half and just push harder with my sponge then. :thumb:


Oh crumbs - have you mis-read? Stay with the 4 capfuls as you are...

Let the ONR do the work - no doing _anything_ hard, especially wiping!

Regards,
Steve


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Marve said:


> Thanks Steve, I'll cut my dilution in half and just push harder with my sponge then. :thumb:


Not sure if that was said tongue in cheek, don't be pushing harder with the sponge. The ONR does the bulk of the work, all you want the sponge to do is move it. If you read many of Steve's posts, you'll see that him stress that, if you're doing it right, you should need to exert very little extra pressure through it.


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## Marve (Jul 5, 2013)

Sorry guys, it was a joke... You know you have both given great help and guidance to a newbie and he responds with something that shows he has understood NOTHING of what you have said. I find it happens every day in my work, so I wanted to be the idiot for once... Sorry, I do get everything we have discussed here. Thanks.


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Marve said:


> Sorry guys, it was a joke...


...cancels call to paramedics :wall:


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Lowiepete said:


> I tend to use noodle mitts for the single bucket wash and *I always give them
> a quick rinse with some washing-up liquid before they go into the washing
> machine*. I don't really study the amount of muck that comes out, though it
> only goes to serve how well those polymers work.
> ...


Generally, I give them a soak in hot water and a couple of scrubs/squeezes before I chuck them in the machine, but I decided to give this a shot today and, by god, I couldn't believe the amount of mucky liquid that came out of the wash mitt and the MF cloth (which I'd used on my wheels so was particularly manly), and that was after giving them the hot water treatment I mentioned at the start!!

I don't think the mitt has ever seen it's original colour since it was new! :lol:

Just a little squirt of fairy then agitate the mitt/cloth it against itself and then carry on under running water!


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

m1pui said:


> ...by god, I couldn't believe the amount of mucky liquid that came out of the wash mitt and the MF cloth


LOL, I think you highlighted the wrong bit of my quote. Try this bit...


Lowiepete said:


> I don't really study the amount of muck that comes out, though it only goes to serve how well those polymers work.


With Season's Greetings,
Steve


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## James Bagguley (Jul 13, 2013)

Hey there guys, hope all is well! :wave:

Still not sure of the limitations of ONR really, it seems pretty miraculous, but i wonder if i am asking too much of it?!

Having no PW due to a catastrophic failure, i am trying to do an ONR wash once a week, but even that can see a hefty amount of dirt accumulate.
The water in the bucket is usually frighteningly mucky before i am half way done. 
I am going gently, though making a couple of passes, one to remove the bulk of the crud, and another for the remainder, with frequent and thorough rinsing of the sponge.

It feels bad rinsing in water that is more crud than aqua though! :doublesho

By the way would i be better posting this on the ONR FAQ?


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

James Bagguley said:


> Hey there guys, hope all is well! :wave:
> 
> Still not sure of the limitations of ONR really, it seems pretty miraculous, but i wonder if i am asking too much of it?!
> 
> ...


You cab always used the 2 bucket method with ONR if your worried about it mate.

Your sponge will still stain but the wash water should be clean though.


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## James Bagguley (Jul 13, 2013)

Thanks bud, i might do that to play safe.
If i wring out the sponge fully it shouldnt dilute or reduce the ONR's properties.

My car has not been corrected as yet, but i dont see any more marring than before which is heartening.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

The front and bottom half of my car was really filthy today so I tried something a bit extra to what I normally do, but it seemed to work.

I had a bit of ONR left in my spray bottle from last time, so went around the front and bottom of the car with that to start with. Then, left that to settle for a minute or two, then went around the same areas with a sprayer of G101.

Then started the usual ONR procedure and even the worst parts just seemed to melt away, almost before the sponge or mitt touches it.

As has been said in one of the threads, ONR is pretty inexpensive, so don't begrudge doing an extra spray to soften/move any particularly cruddy bits before you attack with the sponge/mitt.

The other thing I've done is bought a new bucket (one of the 20l ones from Elite) to replace the trusty 15l black builders buckets and, for me, the extra height/depth/water in the bucket gives you a bit more confidence, even when it starts to look bad.


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

rayner said:


> You can always used the 2 bucket method with ONR if your worried about it mate.


I don't mean to contradict, but I wouldn't advise this at the best of times,
let alone when salt is present. In the UK, the dilutions of ONR are but a fraction
of those recommended for the USA. That means in reality that we're pushing
our luck. Just go back to post #21 at the top of this page to see what those
ONR polymers are _really_ doing.

A second bucket of plain water can be a step too far! The reason being that
the ONR polymers will be so dilute as to be ineffective. The whole point of 
ONR is still to wash a car _safely_, and that's why I always jump in to scotch 
the idea of the 2BM being worthwhile with it. It isn't!

Rather than have two buckets, is there anything stopping a refill? I wash my
wheels with CG HFE, using half a bucket to wash two wheels, then refill.
Perhaps use less in each bucket, rather than overfilling a large one. There's
not only less weight to carry, there will be less damage if you slip on the ice.

Have you guys watched the video I've posted into the ONR FAQ? The car in
that was pretty filthy...

With Season's Greetings,
Steve


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

m1pui said:


> ...left that to settle for a minute or two, then went around the same areas with a sprayer of G101.


Oh, isn't that likely to weaken your LSP's protection? I'm wondering what
G101 will bring that a second spraying of ONR won't...

With Season's Greetings,
Steve


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## James Bagguley (Jul 13, 2013)

Lowiepete said:


> Rather than have two buckets, is there anything stopping a refill?


Good point, it had occurred to me that i could swap for some fresh solution last time i washed, i was torn between that idea and a rinse bucket.

I did remember your reservations on the rinse idea Steve, so i just stuck to my guns and got the job done, refill next time methinks!

Seasons Greetings to you also :thumb:


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## Blueberry (Aug 10, 2007)

I don't wish to contradict either but I use 2BM when using ONR or LOE for that matter. I feel much more assured that I'm not going to inflict damage on the paintwork using it this way. I'm extremely careful when using ONR and I can't see any damage to the paintwork. If it works for you then stick with it.


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## James Bagguley (Jul 13, 2013)

Aaargh! :lol: No, just messing! Hopefully i can correct the paint in the new year, then maybe do a few trials and document the outcome.

I do tend to worry due to the reputation Honda paint has for easy marring, it is wearing two coats of 1000p and a bit of C2V3 though, so dirt shouldnt bond too hard to it :thumb:


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

Lowiepete said:


> I don't mean to contradict, but I wouldn't advise this at the best of times,
> let alone when salt is present. In the UK, the dilutions of ONR are but a fraction
> of those recommended for the USA. That means in reality that we're pushing
> our luck. Just go back to post #21 at the top of this page to see what those
> ...


Tbh I dissagree Steve. Mainly because there will be no further dilution of the ONR. What I didn't really think to write is that once rinsed the sponge/mitt can be wrung out until dry, a quick spray and off again. The main reason I use this method is for when I've got all 3 cars to do. Instead of keeping changing ONR solution, throwing away valuable product you only change the rinse water, I can get 3 vehicles (1 Hilux, Impreza and a Primastar van) done with 10L of ONR solution. The buckets only get moved once per car so the weight isn't a problem.

Each to their own though


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

Lowiepete said:


> Oh, isn't that likely to weaken your LSP's protection? I'm wondering what
> G101 will bring that a second spraying of ONR won't...
> 
> With Season's Greetings,
> Steve


Ever used G101 Steve? Ime it's MUCH better at cleaning than 2 sprays of ONR :thumb:


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Lowiepete said:


> Oh, isn't that likely to weaken your LSP's protection? I'm wondering what
> G101 will bring that a second spraying of ONR won't...
> 
> With Season's Greetings,
> Steve


Perhaps it will, perhaps it won't. But we'll just have to wonder as I didn't do a 50/50 to test it.

As I said, I just tried something a bit different to normal and as my current lsp is Optimum Spray Wax, it's no great hardship if I do need to reapply it.


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## Guru (Aug 28, 2013)

I'm with Blueberry & rayner on this. I too use a 2BM if the car is dirtier than what I feel comfortable for a waterless wash. I don't think the ONR solution gets diluted if you squeeze / wring out the mitt after rinsing it.

I have seen the ONR behave exactly like it should on the first panel and also on the last one I wash.


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

rayner said:


> Tbh I disagree Steve. Mainly because there will be no further dilution of the ONR.


Which is factually incorrect! One thing about giving advice here, and this isn't
the first time that I have said this, is that it needs to be easily repeatable
by anyone who reads and follows it, regardless of their existing experience. 
Above all, the practice needs to be safe; not just to the paint and its LSP, 
but to the user also.

If you rinse your wash media in plain water, there is bound to be a further 
dilution, and to levels that are likely to impede the polymer protection within 
the wash media itself. That is probably the riskiest place!

There is another aspect to this. If you have to thoroughly wring out your 
wash media at each go, you place added stresses not only upon that media, 
but upon your hands also; both needlessly. It's probably easier to wring out a
sponge than a noodle mitt, but the latter, and your paint, is being protected 
by ONR's polymers, as post #21 in this thread confirms.

Considering that you need to dunk the sponge/mitt so regularly in winter, 
literally after every short wipe on the dirtier panels, that just makes it hard 
and exhausting work. Why make this extra work for yourself, and recommend 
it to others, when it's avoidable and unnecessary? If there's one thing I am
truthfully advocating with ONR, it's how simple and easy it is to use.



rayner said:


> Ever used G101 Steve? Ime it's MUCH better at cleaning than 2 sprays of ONR :thumb:


Oh, I don't doubt that for a second! What makes me fearful is that very few
people actually measure any of their potions; just a glug will do is a mantra
that's very much alive and well. From what I've read of G101, it's very much
like the Teepol that almost instantly rotted your shoes on board ship years 
ago. Anyway, it's very risky indeed! I've yet a to find a use for anything like 
as strong as this product, where I'd seek someone out to cadge some, let 
alone go out and buy it.

When I attended the East Anglian meet last Sunday, I was really taken aback
by just how few people attending even knew of the detailing basics, let alone 
practised them! That was a salutory lesson to me to redouble my efforts in 
making sure that descriptions found here are of safe working methods, in 
every sense. We don't do any favours for anyone otherwise.

My drawing attention to using the G101 has solicited extra vital information
that wasn't apparent, in that an easily replaceable LSP is being used in this 
case. Other than if you have a man-cave, the time for replacing paste waxes,
with some notable exceptions, is long past. 2 sprays of ONR will safely and
thoroughly deal with the muck found on a car's paint in winter. G101 is a bit
of overkill...

With Season's Greetings,
Steve


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## James Bagguley (Jul 13, 2013)

Whoops! I didnt intend to make everyone cross with each other! 

Okay thats a little strong, you guys have been engaging in a healthy mature debate, no hair pulling or obscenities! :thumb:

As has been said, each to their own, if ONR is working successfully for all, whatever the finer points of use, then we are all enlightened to some degree in the beneficial effects of its properties.

I would love to conduct some objective experiments on an unmarred surface to gauge the outcomes of using the TBM etc.
Unfortunately, part of the reason i use ONR in the first place, is lack of time to lavish on detailing in general, so i will have to leave that to someone else.

As for the future, i think a refill will be my choice, to keep those polymers working :thumb:


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

Lowiepete said:


> Which is factually incorrect! One thing about giving advice here, and this isn't
> the first time that I have said this, is that it needs to be easily repeatable
> by anyone who reads and follows it, regardless of their existing experience.
> Above all, the practice needs to be safe; not just to the paint and its LSP,
> ...


Again, each to their own but I for one used the 2BM with ONR for most of last winter on my Black Impreza (ridiculously soft paint). This year after lighting it up there was very little that needed machining, I only needed to use a finishing polish and finishing pad combo.

Do what you like but this car cleaning game isn't as hard as you seem to be trying to make it out to be. Maybe I've misread this but it really does sound like your over complicating things.

G101 WILL NOT ROTT YOUR SHOES. Seriously? You talk about being factually correct then throw in an allegation that an extremely popular product thats been used for years is going to start rotting things? It can an will strip your lsp if used too strong and it can and will dry your hands out so wear gloves when using. It's not going to rott anything though

Personally G101 on paint is overkill for me too but I'm not going to tell anyone not to do it. Worst case scenario an lsp gets stripped. Not the end of the world


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## James Bagguley (Jul 13, 2013)

Hey there Rayner! Hope you are well.
I think Steve was talking directly of another product used in nautical circles in days gone by in reference to footwear destroying properties (pretty mad that something could do that eh?!) and merely likening G101 to it in terms of strength, rather than its ability (or otherwise) to eat through ones winkle pickers!

Interesting to hear your experience with the Scooby though, its some real world reassurance for me, as by all accounts, Honda paint is pretty soft stuff too! 

Cheers bud! :thumb:


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

James Bagguley said:


> Hey there Rayner! Hope you are well.
> I think Steve was talking directly of another product used in nautical circles in days gone by in reference to footwear destroying properties (pretty mad that something could do that eh?!) and merely likening G101 to it in terms of strength, rather than its ability (or otherwise) to eat through ones winkle pickers!
> 
> Interesting to hear your experience with the Scooby though, its some real world reassurance for me, as by all accounts, Honda paint is pretty soft stuff too!
> ...


Yeah I realise that mate but it's a slippery slope when people misinterpret things that get said.

Yeah your going to be in the same boat as me regarding paint, one good thing is that although it's easy to mark it's also easy to correct.


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

It's interesting that I'm being accused of "complicating" things, when I reckon
that I've spent most of my "DW time" debunking such shennanigins. One quick
thought that has occured to me James - how much "rinsing" are you doing 
when you return the mitt to the wash bucket? 

Quite unlike with the 2BM, you _don't_ need to thrash the wash media about
to try and render it clean between each pass. While you would need to do
that with shampoos that don't have the polymer content of rinseless washes,
it isn't strictly necessary with ONR or CG HFE. 

Basically, all I do is dunk the mitt, a quick single moment squeeze under the
surface, withdraw and another quick squeeze to remove the excess. Also, I 
make a point of _not_ gathering the dirt into the mitt, preferring to return it 
to the ground from whence it came. So, it's a single downward stroke with 
the wash water chasing and lubricating the dirt off the paint.

That way your wash solution will stay relatively clean. Take heart from the
comments in post #21, you can trust the polymers.

As for the G101, there is one very clear instruction, not to let it dry on a
surface for fear of permanent staining. Now, I know that I'm all for promoting
the qualities of ONR, but I do wonder whether in winter there will be enough
water used to fully dissolve away that cleaner and not leave traces. Being a
car shampoo is not listed as being one of its attributes, so I doubt there are 
many lubricating polymers present...

IMO, it's now overkill with risks!

As for my Teepol comments. Working in the restaurant at sea, you took very
great pride in your appearance. Your shoes would be bulled to rival those of
any infantryman! The fly in the ointment was the stuff they cleaned the deck
of the galley with. In short order, it dried leather so much you had white 
stains that no amount of black polish or bulling could restore. Eventually, the
stitching would disintegrate.

When I read the attributes of G101 it renders the same usage chill through
me, especially as the Teepol was administered by the healthy glug, as if it 
was Fairy Liquid and oh so kind to your hands...

With Season's Greetings,
Steve


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## James Bagguley (Jul 13, 2013)

Hi Steve, definitely guilty of too much sloshing when it comes to the rinse! 

Is it best keeping a good excess of product in the sponge when applied to the paint also?
Thanks for the advice on the downward stroke approach, i tended to work with the lines of the car, but your method makes much more sense :thumb:


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

James Bagguley said:


> Is it best keeping a good excess of product in the sponge when applied to the paint also?


No, not really, all you need is some content that you can squeeze out as you
descend. If you overload, you'll need to replenish your wash bucket sooner.
The trick here is being able to squeeze out liquid _without_ applying any extra
pressure onto the panel. That might need a bit of practice...

With Season's Greetings,
Steve


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## mattyh2013 (Aug 5, 2013)

Excellent advice again Steve. 
I've not long been using onr and If I'm honest I've used the 2bm every time with a scratch shield in the rinse bucket. 
After reading your post and tips, and since the road salt is around, I will give the 1bm a go with my noodle mitt and scratch shield. 
And I won't forget the dwell time of the pre spray!

Seasons greetings to you too.


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## richtea78 (Apr 16, 2011)

I think I'm doing mine wrong after reading everyone's posts

I have a 5l sprayer that I use to presoak the car. I've been putting 3 capfuls in this and 2 in my 10l bucket

I spray the panel, wait a couple of minutes, then wipe it over with a sponge (currently the Dodo Supernatural sponge) which is rinsed in the bucket. 

I have had problems with smearing but very few swirls and my Honda paint would make butter look hard! I'm going to reduce the quantities


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Where are you from? i.e. hard or soft water.


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## richtea78 (Apr 16, 2011)

I'm between Brighton and Gatwick. My water comes from chalk aquifers so is meant to be very hard


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

I would imagine that your first port of call is to look at the starting point for
your pre-spray. At 32:1 you will need 10 capfuls in your 5 litre sprayer. That
would be the starting point for most people in the UK.

In your wash bucket, you could need up to 4 capfuls. The smearing that you
are getting is not because ONR is too strong, but much too weak. Its polymers
cannot encapsulate the dirt at those weak dilutions.

A 5 litre pre-spray bottle should last for several washes, which may be OK for
winter, but for summer use I'd go to a 1.5litre bottle, which is much easier to
wield. You don't need to _soak_ the car. All that's needed is enough of the
pre-spray to get into the dirt. It's the dwell period that's far more important!
You'd only need a 2nd spraying on really dirty panels. I only give a second
spray otherwise to watch for dirt movement and an indicator that it's ready
to wipe.

See Sections 10 & 13 in this OP

With Season's Greetings,
Steve


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## James Bagguley (Jul 13, 2013)

Thanks again Steve, you are an invaluable source of information :thumb: 

The link you gave caused me to read again the finer points of your guide, see your video, and spot a few things that i have been doing incorrectly. 

I suppose it is similar to Junkmans guides, a wealth of information is given, and care should be taken in digesting the various key points.
It has been useful to gain some practice, and i think from now on i should be able to use ONR to its full potential, many thanks!


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## NeilG40 (Jan 1, 2009)

I've been using ONR for a while now and am happy with it for the sides of the car but not so much for roof and bonnet, part of the problem is the car itself a Passat estate, due to how large and flat these surfaces are I can see the ONR solution just sat there with the dirt encapsulated in it.

Any advice?


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Hi James,


James Bagguley said:


> I suppose it is similar to Junkmans guides, a wealth of information is given, and care should be taken in digesting the various key points. It has been useful to gain some practice, and i think from now on i should be able to use ONR to its full potential, many thanks!


Many thanks for your kind words. Writing that guide has been an ongoing 
rod for my back. The limiting factor being that I keep hitting the maximum
character count for a single post.

So, I constantly go back to see what I can weed out, or change, without 
losing any of the nuances of what I'm trying to convey. At first glance, I've
little doubt that readers will see it as extended verbiage. However, I'm very
concious that whatever advice appears there has to absolutely work as I've
described. I don't think I could deal with the keyboard warriors' attacks if I
get it wrong. 

ONR is still nowhere near the mainstream, so I don't think the OPT directors
can yet retire upon the proceeds from their UK distribution. With ONR the 
single bucket regime is the way to go, simply because of the way its polymers
behave. Anyone who _insists_ on continuing with the 2BM should seriously 
consider choosing the correct OPT product, Optimum Car Wash.

Hi Neil,


NeilG40 said:


> ...due to how large and flat these surfaces are I can see the ONR solution just sat there with the dirt encapsulated in it.


I think we need a tad more info from you before any useful answer can be
given. At what stage of the wash process are you at when you witness this?

With Season's Greetings,
Steve


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## NeilG40 (Jan 1, 2009)

Lowiepete said:


> I think we need a tad more info from you before any useful answer can be
> given. At what stage of the wash process are you at when you witness this?
> 
> With Season's Greetings,
> Steve


Right so I've pre-sprayed the panel and done two passes with the mitt but because the panels near enough flat and the water's not really running away I can see dirt in the beads of water left behind. I feel a bit reluctant to mop it up with a micro fibre.


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## mattyh2013 (Aug 5, 2013)

I used the 1BM method yesterday and not only did It feel safer, it was quicker than having to ring my noodle mitt out time and time again in the rinse bucket, so not to dilute the ONR solution. 
The car hadn't been washed for 2 weeks and was fairly dirty. 
I pre sprayed each panel to be safe and then finished off with some OCW. 
I used a new noodle mitt and followed the advice and used some fairy washing up liquid and warm water and the mitt came up a treat. 

Took a look at the paint under the garage lights and no scratches or marks, so I'm extremely confident with the ONR And will stick with the 1BM. 

The finish on motor looks stunning. 

Steve - thanks again. 

Regards


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Hi Matt,


mattyh2013 said:


> I used the 1BM method yesterday and not only did It feel safer, it was quicker than having to ring my noodle mitt out time and time again in the rinse bucket, so not to dilute the ONR solution.


That sounds more like it. Someone saying that it's easier work is music
to my ears.

Hi Neil,


NeilG40 said:


> I can see dirt in the beads of water left behind. I feel a bit reluctant to mop it up with a micro fibre.


As long as you use an MF cloth that has been lightly dampened with ONR,
you'll be fine. As you say, the dirt is encapsulated.

Have a look at the technique described here... In winter, when salt is present,
use it as your drying procedure. If you can see dirt present, then it'll all be
in your wrist action 

With Season's Greetings,
Steve


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## mattyh2013 (Aug 5, 2013)

Lowiepete said:


> Hi Matt,
> 
> That sounds more like it. Someone saying that it's easier work is music
> to my ears.
> ...


I live in an apartment complex, so firstly I didn't have to take 2 full buckets down, plus didn't have to ring the mitt and make sure it was completely empty as to not dilute the onr solution bucket.

At the end I could just see the dirt encapsulated at the bottom of the bucket under the scratch guard.

I have considered getting a white bucket to keep check. 
Is it worth it in your experience?

Regards


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

mattyh2013 said:


> I have considered getting a white bucket to keep check. Is it worth it in your experience?


My buckets at home are light green, so I don't have any advice beyond that
you _can_ trust ONR as long as you _allow_ rather than _force_ the product to 
do its work. I'm thrilled to hear about a new-found freedom from other people! :thumb:

The only danger is that you don't lose focus while you wash. The lack of
bubbles should be your constant reminder that care is needed. ONR is not 
any kind of wonder liquid; it just works when you give it the right conditions.

With Season's Greetings,
Steve


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

The colour of bucket is neither here nor there really. But, for me, a 20L one with nice vertical sides made me much more comfortable than using the usual builders bucket. 

Being quite wide with a taper meant that whilst they held enough water, it was relatively shallow so it didn't take much to feel like you were dunking too deep into the solution.


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