# Hard base coat + hydrophobic topper. Which combo for an easy life?



## Ennoch (Jan 31, 2006)

Right, so the basic premise is that about five years ago I did my dad's then new Silver Evoque with Carpro Cquartz UK V3. It's finally stopped beading water effectively so it's time to re-do. That and the car is covered in scratches from the paint being dragged down gorse bushes, brambles and goat willow on the track up to the fishing lochs so therefore needs a fair amount of correction, plus a replacement coating. The question is what? I've still got the bottle of CQUK2.0 but the last few times I've appleid it to brake callipers and headlamps it's proved very grabby to buff off. Am I mis-remembering it's properties, or should I ditch the bottle and go for something else? If I go for something else...

1) The base layer. I would want something hard wearing and relatively beneficial in terms of scratch resistance. Do I go Carbon Collective 9H, CQuartz UK 3.0, or something else?

2) The hydrophobic topper. What? Carbon Collective Oracle, or CQuartz Classic? Or do I go against that completely and just top the base layer with something like FK1000P which works well and lasts a decent amount of time?

3) Or do I scrub all these ideas and use something like CC Platinum Paint which would seem to sit somewhere between the base and topper?

Basically I'll be doing it in October outside in the north of Scotland therefore something that needs 20c to apply is out the question (out the question in July in Scotland too for that matter). I don't mind applying a topper to keep it beading a couple of times a year if it comes to it but from my dad's point of view he just wants something to protect the paint and wheels and make it easy to keep clean. He appreciates a clean and smart looking car but a detailer he is very much not!

Help!! :lol:

Edited to add that I'll be using up whatever's left on my mum's 2015 Aygo in bright red, and probably on my Estoril Blue BMW F31 estate once I've summoned up the motivation to correct the paint (I've been spoiled for a number of years by soft Japanese stuff)!


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## The Guz (Jan 27, 2019)

Ennoch said:


> Right, so the basic premise is that about five years ago I did my dad's then new Silver Evoque with Carpro Cquartz UK V3. It's finally stopped beading water effectively so it's time to re-do. That and the car is covered in scratches from the paint being dragged down gorse bushes, brambles and goat willow on the track up to the fishing lochs so therefore needs a fair amount of correction, plus a replacement coating. The question is what? I've still got the bottle of CQUK2.0 but the last few times I've appleid it to brake callipers and headlamps it's proved very grabby to buff off. Am I mis-remembering it's properties, or should I ditch the bottle and go for something else? If I go for something else...
> 
> 1) The base layer. I would want something hard wearing and relatively beneficial in terms of scratch resistance. Do I go Carbon Collective 9H, CQuartz UK 3.0, or something else?
> 
> ...


So the car more than likely has CQUK UK 2.0 as 3.0 hasn't been out that long.

It might just be time to retire that bottle of 2.0.

I'll toss in my two cents.

1. A coating in general takes the hardness quality of the paint from experience with coatings. It will still help and be better than a wax or sealant in this regards.

But don't buy too much into all this 9H hardness or whatever it is. The key is use a coating from a reputable brand.

I don't know much about carbon collective as it's not known here in the states but CQUK 3.0 is a good option and performs well.

2. CQUK 3.0 does not require a topper. It has a 110 or 115 degree contact angle. Can't recall off the top of my head. A topper like Gliss is going to add slickness and some anti water spotting characteristics. Also a little gloss.

Prior to Gliss coming out, it was popular to apply TiO2 over CQUK. The idea was to get the hardness of UK and the stain resistance of TiO2. It is still a nice combo. TiO2 also has a 110 or 115 degrees contact angle.

Topping it with FK1000 is not the end of the world but it negates all of the benefits from a coating. You would be better off using a maintenance silica spray sealant.

3. Can't help you there. This product is. It known on the states. At least for me.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Since your last attempt there has been a huge increase in the number of coatings on the market, though how different all these actually are, the numbers reduce back down again.

There are also ‘graphene’ coatings available, though I’m not sure these are just ceramic coatings with some flecks of reduced graphene oxide suspended in essentially the same ceramic matrix. They have made them more hydrophobic, at least initially, to add to the hype. The products are still probably good coatings, but the jury is out on the longer term aspects.

If you can get indoors, for a period, that will greatly increase your options.

What is your budget?


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## Ennoch (Jan 31, 2006)

The Guz said:


> So the car more than likely has CQUK UK 2.0 as 3.0 hasn't been out that long.
> 
> 1. A coating in general takes the hardness quality of the paint from experience with coatings. It will still help and be better than a wax or sealant in this regards.
> 
> ...


Well spotted, yes, of course it has V2.0 on it.

My understanding was that these harder coatings help protect the paint from wear and tear, at least to some degree. Even Carpro seem to suggest that for slickness and hydrophobia you're best adding a topper? If V3.0 is as good if not better than 2.0 in terms of durability and paint protection then it's worth looking at, I was just curious as to how CC 9H comes into play (albeit I do suspect that it's just another normal product re-branded).

So if the base coating is in essence a protective layer to the paint (albeit not rock chips etc), and the top layer is generally the hydrophobic gloss layer, then why does FK negate the benefit of the coating? The problem I have with so many of these coatings is that they all promise the world in different ways - let's just say that I'm a sceptic to a lot of the marketing claims! It used to be easier when it was just GTechniq...



roscopervis said:


> If you can get indoors, for a period, that will greatly increase your options.
> 
> What is your budget?


Sadly the inside bit is a no go, therefore I just need to work with what I have. When I first did it I had the run of the Land Rover dealer workshop on a Sunday and I suspect that it spent 24hrs in a warm and dry environment has probably contributed to its longevity. However, there's no point in wishing for what you don't have.

Budget wise I was looking at a max of £100 for a set of coatings as that across three cars is pretty reasonable. Maybe a little more budget dependant on what it was getting me but that's a ballpark at least.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

I really like the Gtechniq CSL base layer, it's very nice visually definitely has an element of marring resistance, slick and super easy to apply (you mention this is a previous concern with CQuartz 2.0). From memory Gtechniq products don't require very warm curing temps.. 

In your shoes I would consider TAC Systems Moonlight or Gyeon Cancoat as hydrophobic toppers to CSL, for me I am yet to find ceramic top coat products as easy to apply and versatile as these. The long life top coats (Exo, Gliss, Skin, Booster) need constant maintenance... they stress me out tiptoeing around them, and I personally find them a waste of time as despite the tiptoeing they generally do not cling onto peak performance for longer than a few months. That's not to say they've failed, they'll just need decontaminated (a process with strong chemicals which itself weakens hydrophobic performance) to then be topped up by 'maintenance' sprays which effectively take over as LSP doing all the heavy lifting when it comes to hydrophobics, self cleaning... I can absolutely understand why you'd want to protect the base layer - it's continuing to provide an element of hardness as a barrier, but protecting the protective top coat which only purpose in many cases is self-cleaning, chemical resistance and slickness is just a joke... these are attributes taken over by the ultimate maintenance sprays you need to keep them looking and performing well. 80% of said 'maintenance' sprays are bang average (C2V3, Cure, Wetcoat, Reload) and won't perform at the level of the fading top coat.. the remaining 20% are from boutique brands and I have had some success with them albeit they are so expensive I sometimes wonder why I bother?

That's why my own approach and recommendation is to opt for a high-performing 'lite' coating topper like Cancoat or Moonlight with medium durability - standalone basis works fine but in your case over CSL given the requirement for 'hardness'. The application is so easy to apply that you can do that as regularly as you need or want after a typical 'big' maintenance decon, extracting better performance than using the maintenance toppers I mentioned before.

You'll get a couple of cars out of a 30ml CSL bottle if applied correctly, you'll get upwards of 10 cars from a bottle of Cancoat. Application takes no longer than 35 mins, curing is min 4 hours and not temperature sensitive. Having Gyeon Cure to apply after 4 hours will protect you from any chance of the weather changing post application - I've never needed this and haven't seen any detrimental effects to a bit of rain as short as 3 hours after applying them. CSL you'd need about 12 hours though.

If you weren't as fussed about applying two products CQuartz 3.0 is a great one-step layer with a decent hydrophobic function - as does Lite which is even easier to apply at the expense of some of the solids (and therefore marring resistance).


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2020)

I have to agree with Guz. Cquartz 3.0 is all the coating you need and really doesn’t need a topper. It’s As hard as any other coating and it’s If maintained regularly has better performing hydrophobics than most toppers. 

Keep it simple, go with a ceramic coating and leave the toppers off. If you want a bit of extra slickness and easier drying and a bit of extra shine use a bit of elixir as a drying aid, but even that really isn’t necessary.


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## 4Wheels&Engine (Jun 11, 2020)

As you need to do some polishing too, you could look at using a polish that adds a base layer of protection, like CarPro Essence, or AutoBright Final Finish (Xtreme Solutions LVR - 403).


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## Ennoch (Jan 31, 2006)

Thanks for all the points of view, much appreciated. Nothing has made me think that these new systems are any better than what was on there before; remember that my dad's been happy with the CQUK2.0 and it lasted four years before beginning to fail! Doing some thinking I reckon using some CarPro Essence, followed by CQUK3.0 and then *maybe* Cancoat but probably not, at least initially. It may be that I give it a year and then go down the route of Cancoat once the hydrophobic effect of CQUK begins to tail off. Or go back to just using FK given how unbelievably easy it is to use and how long it lasts. He's got a bottle of Reload already but doesn't really go for the whole bucket rinse, just a hose off with the jet wash and snow foam. His real priority is keeping it clean more than polishing/waxing/wiping down every weekend etc, so whatever helps with this is the main priority of a top coat IMO.


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## Fatboy40 (Apr 15, 2013)

I'm surprised how anti-topper so many here are. My wife's car is CarPro Essence + UK 3.0 + Gliss v2 and is spot on.

Around a third of my own car's bonnet is UK 3.0 + Gliss v2, with the rest either just UK 3.0 or Gtechniq C5 (so I've got a bit of a test going on). When off to work I've a first few miles at 30 to 50 MPH, and when it's been raining overnight the water beads instantly on the Gliss and rolls off, but the other two take substantially longer / a higher MPH to have the same behaviour (they've all been on for about four months).

Personally UK 3.0, and CarPro Cquartz Lite (so we're talking CanCoat as a comparison to this), just feel too "grabby" for my liking even after they've cured for a week or so, and Gliss v2 gives me the slickness I want and lifts the hydrophobics to another level. I don't know what to top CQ Lite with yet though to add slickness, topping with Reload is not good enough for me and I don't want to use Gliss v2 on it (and other short-term toppers haven't added enough slickness either).


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2020)

IMO Essense is a fantastic stand alone product and a downright impressive AIO, but I don't feel it should be used under cquartz as it will, in my experience, degrade faster than the coating over top of it and shorten the coatings its lifespan. There's no need for an undercoating under a ceramic and bare paint its the best possible thing to start with. If you do use essence, give it lots of time to cure hard before coating over.

Ceramics are grabby for a reason - the lotus effect, there are "bumpy" at a microscopic level and this is what causes it to be hydrophobic, all ceramics are, and "slickness" while strangely gratifying to run a towel over, serves no purpose at all. But as people like it, and are used to it with waxes/sealents, many toppers give this feeling, which is essentially masking the ceramics properties and adding its own, which are (usually) inferior. Nothing wrong if you prefer this, but it doesn't add any benefit to hydrophobic or protection, and it begs asking why are you touching your paint so much anyway? Also toppers all seem to attract more dust. My car which lives outside certainly stays cleaner since I stopped using them.

To be fair I've not used Gliss, but it is flourine(?) based which has its own reasons for being hydrophobic, and more slippery which I'm sure is very gratifying to watch shed water. but when it wears off in a year or less I wonder if the ceramic under it will still perform, or it it will be levelled out/filled in? Then you have to chose if you polish it off and start again, or re-coat with gliss on a less than perfect surface, or like most. go to a topper to get some hydrophobics again. 

All great for profits and the hobby to have people buying fun things to put on their cars, but ceramics in their concept are an apply and enjoy for several years type of product that perform exceptionally well all on their own. The OP did ask for an "easy life".


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

Fatboy40 said:


> I'm surprised how anti-topper so many here are. My wife's car is CarPro Essence + UK 3.0 + Gliss v2 and is spot on.
> 
> Around a third of my own car's bonnet is UK 3.0 + Gliss v2, with the rest either just UK 3.0 or Gtechniq C5 (so I've got a bit of a test going on). When off to work I've a first few miles at 30 to 50 MPH, and when it's been raining overnight the water beads instantly on the Gliss and rolls off, but the other two take substantially longer / a higher MPH to have the same behaviour (they've all been on for about four months).
> 
> Personally UK 3.0, and CarPro Cquartz Lite (so we're talking CanCoat as a comparison to this), just feel too "grabby" for my liking even after they've cured for a week or so, and Gliss v2 gives me the slickness I want and lifts the hydrophobics to another level. I don't know what to top CQ Lite with yet though to add slickness, topping with Reload is not good enough for me and I don't want to use Gliss v2 on it (and other short-term toppers haven't added enough slickness either).


I would try Shinee Wax. Doesn't stunt beads, has wicked slickness and gloss.


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## Fatboy40 (Apr 15, 2013)

Sheep said:


> I would try Shinee Wax. Doesn't stunt beads, has wicked slickness and gloss.


Hmmm... maybe worth a go.

I've considered it before but TAC System (and Gyeon) give out sod all info on their products, and never answer any questions (unlike CarPro / Avi), so have they ever confirmed it sits happily as a topper on a coating?


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Fatboy40 said:


> Hmmm... maybe worth a go.
> 
> I've considered it before but TAC System (and Gyeon) give out sod all info on their products, and never answer any questions (unlike CarPro / Avi), so have they ever confirmed it sits happily as a topper on a coating?


I've used it on my own in the past, works absolutely fine - barely noticed it wear off, presumably a douse of auto foam stripped it before I noticed it degrading.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Ennoch said:


> Thanks for all the points of view, much appreciated. Nothing has made me think that these new systems are any better than what was on there before; remember that my dad's been happy with the CQUK2.0 and it lasted four years before beginning to fail! Doing some thinking I reckon using some CarPro Essence, followed by CQUK3.0 and then *maybe* Cancoat but probably not, at least initially. It may be that I give it a year and then go down the route of Cancoat once the hydrophobic effect of CQUK begins to tail off. Or go back to just using FK given how unbelievably easy it is to use and how long it lasts. He's got a bottle of Reload already but doesn't really go for the whole bucket rinse, just a hose off with the jet wash and snow foam. His real priority is keeping it clean more than polishing/waxing/wiping down every weekend etc, so whatever helps with this is the main priority of a top coat IMO.


Things do evolve slightly, I believe for example v3.0 was reformulated to be easier to apply and aid water spotting issues. The underlying chemistry of most coatings don't differ a huge deal. Not sure you'll need a topper for 3.0, Cancoat will bead slightly better and it will add a bit more slickness, if you've your heart set on a dedicated top coat, Gliss would be the way to go. Per my last post, if you're going to top the top coat with Reload/Elixer then don't bother with the top coat at all as soon as you top it you realise little to none of it's benefits.



Fatboy40 said:


> I'm surprised how anti-topper so many here are. My wife's car is CarPro Essence + UK 3.0 + Gliss v2 and is spot on.
> 
> Around a third of my own car's bonnet is UK 3.0 + Gliss v2, with the rest either just UK 3.0 or Gtechniq C5 (so I've got a bit of a test going on). When off to work I've a first few miles at 30 to 50 MPH, and when it's been raining overnight the water beads instantly on the Gliss and rolls off, but the other two take substantially longer / a higher MPH to have the same behaviour (they've all been on for about four months).
> 
> Personally UK 3.0, and CarPro Cquartz Lite (so we're talking CanCoat as a comparison to this), just feel too "grabby" for my liking even after they've cured for a week or so, and Gliss v2 gives me the slickness I want and lifts the hydrophobics to another level. I don't know what to top CQ Lite with yet though to add slickness, topping with Reload is not good enough for me and I don't want to use Gliss v2 on it (and other short-term toppers haven't added enough slickness either).


You have C5 on the bonnet? Is that not their wheel armour product?

The two CarPro ceramics are dead grabby, that's why they've had to make Gliss to put that right/sell you another product, if they were true 'all in one' ceramics they'd do this a lot better than they do as a grabby surface is not ideal, even if a super slickness is not terribly helpful it just feels nice. Have a look at Titan Ultra, it is super super slick - easy to apply however from my initial testing the jury is out on the durability.. not a biggie if you're applying frequently.


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## The Guz (Jan 27, 2019)

Ennoch said:


> Well spotted, yes, of course it has V2.0 on it.
> 
> My understanding was that these harder coatings help protect the paint from wear and tear, at least to some degree. Even Carpro seem to suggest that for slickness and hydrophobia you're best adding a topper? If V3.0 is as good if not better than 2.0 in terms of durability and paint protection then it's worth looking at, I was just curious as to how CC 9H comes into play (albeit I do suspect that it's just another normal product re-branded).
> 
> So if the base coating is in essence a protective layer to the paint (albeit not rock chips etc), and the top layer is generally the hydrophobic gloss layer, then why does FK negate the benefit of the coating? The problem I have with so many of these coatings is that they all promise the world in different ways - let's just say that I'm a sceptic to a lot of the marketing claims! It used to be easier when it was just GTechniq...


The 9H,10H claims are just nothing to buy into. A coating from my experience takes the characteristics of the paint. So if the paint is soft the coating stays soft. It will help levels above a sealant or wax on softer paints from washing love marks.

Coatings don't wear off slower than a wax or sealant.

CQUK 3.0 is better than 2.0. It's not as tacky and much more user friendly. Durability is on par with each other.

What I meant by negate is that you lose all of the benefits a coating offers such as self cleaning if a wax or polymer sealant is on top.



DannyRS3 said:


> IMO Essense is a fantastic stand alone product and a downright impressive AIO, but I don't feel it should be used under cquartz as it will, in my experience, degrade faster than the coating over top of it and shorten the coatings its lifespan. There's no need for an undercoating under a ceramic and bare paint its the best possible thing to start with. If you do use essence, give it lots of time to cure hard before coating over.
> 
> Ceramics are grabby for a reason - the lotus effect, there are "bumpy" at a microscopic level and this is what causes it to be hydrophobic, all ceramics are, and "slickness" while strangely gratifying to run a towel over, serves no purpose at all. But as people like it, and are used to it with waxes/sealents, many toppers give this feeling, which is essentially masking the ceramics properties and adding its own, which are (usually) inferior. Nothing wrong if you prefer this, but it doesn't add any benefit to hydrophobic or protection, and it begs asking why are you touching your paint so much anyway? Also toppers all seem to attract more dust. My car which lives outside certainly stays cleaner since I stopped using them.
> 
> ...


I've experienced the opposite by using Essence under a Cquartz coating. Seems to help.

Give Gliss a try. You won't see a difference when it degrades. It has the similar contact angle. The slickness will change a bit.



DannyRS3 said:


> I have to agree with Guz. Cquartz 3.0 is all the coating you need and really doesn't need a topper. It's As hard as any other coating and it's If maintained regularly has better performing hydrophobics than most toppers.
> 
> Keep it simple, go with a ceramic coating and leave the toppers off. If you want a bit of extra slickness and easier drying and a bit of extra shine use a bit of elixir as a drying aid, but even that really isn't necessary.


Elixir is nice to use.



Fatboy40 said:


> I'm surprised how anti-topper so many here are. My wife's car is CarPro Essence + UK 3.0 + Gliss v2 and is spot on.
> 
> Around a third of my own car's bonnet is UK 3.0 + Gliss v2, with the rest either just UK 3.0 or Gtechniq C5 (so I've got a bit of a test going on). When off to work I've a first few miles at 30 to 50 MPH, and when it's been raining overnight the water beads instantly on the Gliss and rolls off, but the other two take substantially longer / a higher MPH to have the same behaviour (they've all been on for about four months).
> 
> Personally UK 3.0, and CarPro Cquartz Lite (so we're talking CanCoat as a comparison to this), just feel too "grabby" for my liking even after they've cured for a week or so, and Gliss v2 gives me the slickness I want and lifts the hydrophobics to another level. I don't know what to top CQ Lite with yet though to add slickness, topping with Reload is not good enough for me and I don't want to use Gliss v2 on it (and other short-term toppers haven't added enough slickness either).


Not really anti-topper. Just stating how good CQUK 3.0 is without needing one.

I went 2 years without any toppers and Cquartz still had signs of hydrophobic behavior.

Gliss is good but I got used to a coating not being slick so it's not much of a concern for me. But the slickness of Gliss is nice and it's better than using Reload.


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## Fatboy40 (Apr 15, 2013)

atbalfour said:


> You have C5 on the bonnet? Is that not their wheel armour product?


Yes, it is (... and this has already been covered but C4 is the same products as C5). I had some left over after coating some wheels so I thought I'd add it as a stripe of it on my bonnet, see how it compares.

Unlike say CQ UK 3.0 it's not an amino functional silicon, it's phenyltrimethoxysilane, so is more resistant to heat but personally playing around with it it's not very long lived (the amino functional is harder / glossier). Next wheels I coat will have CQ UK 3.0, which many use on wheels, as none of us at home drive like a loon / have huge disc brake generating masses of heat / very low profile tyres increasing overall heat of the wheel.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Fatboy40 said:


> Yes, it is (... and this has already been covered but C4 is the same products as C5). I had some left over after coating some wheels so I thought I'd add it as a stripe of it on my bonnet, see how it compares.
> 
> Unlike say CQ UK 3.0 it's not an amino functional silicon, it's phenyltrimethoxysilane, so is more resistant to heat but personally playing around with it it's not very long lived (the amino functional is harder / glossier). Next wheels I coat will have CQ UK 3.0, which many use on wheels, as none of us at home drive like a loon / have huge disc brake generating masses of heat / very low profile tyres increasing overall heat of the wheel.


What isn't long lived about C5? You can add C1 to the list too. All based off the quartz coating that GTechniq originally devised. The benefit of this is that is works on almost any surface, including paints which don't play well with the solvents required in the more modern coatings. The downside is the lack of hydrophobicity, though this should not be confused with a lack of longevity.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

roscopervis said:


> What isn't long lived about C5? You can add C1 to the list too. All based off the quartz coating that GTechniq originally devised. The benefit of this is that is works on almost any surface, including paints which don't play well with the solvents required in the more modern coatings. The downside is the lack of hydrophobicity, though this should not be confused with a lack of longevity.


This. C5 actually turns to a sheeter quicker than most but definitely still doing it's thing. I've never had any brake dust that a shampoo wash couldn't remove. Very very little iron contamination during periodic hits with Korrosol either. Zero tar spots. Great performing product, though KKD Revolve X wipes the floor with its extra durability and hydrophobic behaviour.


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## Ennoch (Jan 31, 2006)

Thanks again for all the pointers; a bit more explanation has cleared up why I might not want to top the CQUK with wax or FK. I will still go down the CQUK route as it's proven in my own experience, and then once the beading begins to drop off look at a ceramic 'topper' to apply once a year. I suspect most of the initial drop off is likely to come from the coating becoming contaminated rather than failing so will also look at doing some proper cleaning on it when I can which will hopefully keep it going longer. I suspect that living in the north of Scotland probably helps with coating longevity despite living in a maritime climate near the coast as there is so much less industrial fallout and traffic film to deal with, NC500 excepted.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2020)

Biggest thing with CQUK and indeed any ceramic is maintenance. Foremost the shampoo you use being PH neutral, and Reset form CarPro is excellent stuff. Nothing kills a coating faster than alkaline cleaners and foams, and its easy to fall into that trap as they are very effective cleaners and people will sing their praises, but they are not ceramic friendly. If you stick to Reset, wash regularly, and decontaminate once or twice a year (though sounds like you may not need it up there) and it really should last you years even without a topper. It's also worth noting that toppers like reload when they diminish they can look like the coating has failed. It's the one thing I really didn't like about reload. But cut down with water and with a bit of ECH20 as a drying air it gives the extra shine, makes drying a snap and doesn't degrade the same way as when used neet. Elixir is essentially the same thing. I think CarPro is moving this way for maintenance rather than pushing reload because it is very effective as a maintenance every wash, and these no streaking or degraded water behaviour.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

DannyRS3 said:


> Biggest thing with CQUK and indeed any ceramic is maintenance. Foremost the shampoo you use being PH neutral, and Reset form CarPro is excellent stuff. Nothing kills a coating faster than alkaline cleaners and foams, and its easy to fall into that trap as they are very effective cleaners and people will sing their praises, but they are not ceramic friendly. If you stick to Reset, wash regularly, and decontaminate once or twice a year (though sounds like you may not need it up there) and it really should last you years even without a topper. It's also worth noting that toppers like reload when they diminish they can look like the coating has failed. It's the one thing I really dent like about reload. But cut down with water and with a bit of ECH20 as a drying air it gives the extra shine, makes drying a snap and doesn't degrade the same way as when used neet. Elixir is essentially the same thing. I thing CarPro is moving this way for maintenance rather than pushing reload because it is very effective as a maintenance every wash, and these no stealing or degraded water behaviour.


Hi Danny did you try anything to strip the Reload from the paint once it was starting to slow, rather than it continue to compromise the underlying LSP? Or was it just a waiting game?


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2020)

atbalfour said:


> Hi Danny did you try anything to strip the Reload from the paint once it was starting to slow, rather than it continue to compromise the underlying LSP? Or was it just a waiting game?


I found that a couple of strong washes with reset and blasting the panel closely and slowly with the pressure washer would eventually bring back the base ceramic, but it takes a couple goes even using it neet on a sponge. I really had though the cermaic had failed. Since re coating I've avoided any toppers and have noticed no degradation in 8 months in at the hydrophobics of the base ceramic. So I'm no longer a fan of reload, though I do use it mixed into a "merlins elixir" (1oz Reload, 1oz ECH20 and 10oz DI water) on my glass and have tried in on occasion on the wife's coated car as a drying aid and seen no degradation of performance and it does add some gloss.

As for a waiting game, I don't think degraded reload will really wear off completely on its own and return the base hydrophobics, it needs to be chemically removed. As far as I can see it "fills in" the ceramics surfaces which is very rough at a microscopic level, and this is what gives the hydrophobic effect (see lotus effect). Reload adds its own layer and characteristics, and when worn down it is "flat" agains the ceramic surface giving no more hydrophobic behaviour. Washing reload out of the valleys in the base layer is what returns the base ceramics properties. I imagine most people just add more reload, even further masking the base layer. To me this is unnecessary as the base ceramic has far better water behaviour, and all attracts was less dust.


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## Fatboy40 (Apr 15, 2013)

FYI the only guaranteed way to remove Reload is with panel wipe, due to the oils in it, which is confirmed by Avi at CarPro.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2020)

Fatboy40 said:


> FYI the only guaranteed way to remove Reload is with panel wipe, due to the oils in it, which is confirmed by Avi at CarPro.


Eraser degrades it, but doesn't remove it - tried it myself. Maybe a stronger PW will, but then you best beware its not removing the coating under it as well.

Surfex definitely removes it at 10:1, but absolutely removes the ceramic as well.... shockingly easily at that.


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## The Guz (Jan 27, 2019)

Fatboy40 said:


> FYI the only guaranteed way to remove Reload is with panel wipe, due to the oils in it, which is confirmed by Avi at CarPro.


Here is the FAQ on the CarPro US site on removing reload.


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