# Cyclists



## spickup79 (May 14, 2014)

**Controversial topic alert**

Why is it that cyclists seem to think that the rules of the road don't apply to them? So often I see them jump red lights, ignore give-way signs etc etc and generally do things that could be very hazardous. And don't even get me started on them riding two a-breast down really narrow roads, forcing drivers to crawl at 15-20mph until it is safe to overtake.

Today, I got stopped at a set of traffic lights on red, and a second later a cyclist bombs past, weaves between the cars and straight through the traffic lights as if they weren't even there. When the lights turned to green, and I had got moving again, I caught him up and dropped my passenger window (confrontational, I know) and asked him if he knew he'd just flown through a red light - no swearing or accusations etc - I just asked the question. His response was a sarcastic 'thumbs up' sign and he said "Nice one mate", so then I said "do different rules apply to you on the roads?" (we'd come to a stop at a roundabout) and he said "get on with your life mate".

Now, maybe I should get on with my life and not let stuff like this rile me, but....you can bet your bottom dollar that he'd be the first to point out a mistake I'd made on the road, and how I'd put his life in danger with my air-polluting car whilst he is doing his bit for the environment yadda yadda yadda....and why is it that time and again I see cyclists break the basic rules of the road? If they want to use the road and be respected as users of the road then they have to obey the rules of the road like everyone else, simples.

Furthermore, I quite like my car and take pride in looking after it, and don't want it getting scratched or dented etc by some jumped up little pr1ck riding a bike who thinks he can make up rules to suit himself as he goes along. Cos you can be sure they won't stump up the money for repairs if there's an accident which is their fault, and of course they don't have to have insurance. I know a lady who had a cyclist run into her rear end a while ago cos he didn't see her stop, he was going so fast he shattered her rear windscreen and dented the rear end of her car, he gave her his details and said he'd pay for the damage at the time but later he tried to worm his way out of it, didn't answer the phone, would nt return phone calls etc, she had to take legal action in the end to get her money back.

Most importantly, I have two young kids, and don't want them getting hurt in an accident caused by some muppet who thinks he doesn't have to stop at a red light. So that's why I get pee'd off with this sort of thing, instead of just "getting on with my life".

Rant over!


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## wayne10244 (Aug 24, 2008)

I do agree with you as I love my car and look after it. And I am a cyclist as well and there are so many drivers that does not look out for cyclist as they can't judge the speeds we can do and just pull out on you! Plus don't give you much gap when overtaking you? And when my bike is over £5000 and someone pulls out on you in a old car that is not worth much! I can see your point and I seen it but not all cyclists are like that


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Cyclists are always going to be controversial road users. In general I don't have a problem with them if they don't cause inconvenience to other road users. 

The things that really rile them with me are

1. Not following rules of conduct for public roads. Big one being running red lights. 

2. When two or more cyclists think it's acceptable to cycle next to each over and block the road, forcing everyone to a crawl. 

3. If they crash into your car and it's their fault, the likelihood of the car owner recovering the costs of repairing the damage is low. 

4. Cyclists not using cycle lanes where available. I know by law they are not obliged to use them but I think it should be law. Personally, I don't see why you wouldn't use a cycle path, the risks are far lower than going on the road. 

5. Some cyclists seem to enjoy holding up other road users and don't allow people to overtake.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Its not all cyclists, but i am seeing it more and more. Ive said before, they remind me a lot of jordan, you know, act like a fool all the time but then want to be called katy and don't understand why people won't take her seriously. Seems they hate cyclists themselves, then jump on a bike and become what they hate! Go figure. Best bet is get on with your own life and hope natural selection catches up with them further on down the road. 

On a side note I'm thinking of having stickers made to resample the "think biker" scheme, something like "cyclists, think van, think pain"


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## NiallSD (May 21, 2013)

On your point 2 mate they are well within their rights to cycle 2 abreast. Apart from a busy main road. 
Why is everyone so angry on the roads? At the end of the day we all have the rights to use them. 
There is bad motorcyclists there is bad cyclists there is bad car drivers etc etc. 
having been knocked off my bike once by a car driver when I was following every part of the Highway Code, I am now super careful. 
Maybe you should get on your bike enjoy some fresh air and calm the hell down!


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Controversial topic, yes.

I think what it all boils down to is that there are good cyclists and bad cyclists, along with good drivers and bad drivers. There's no formal training/test, licensing, accountability etc for cyclists so they're much more likely to just not give a *&$% what they do on the road (or just be plain ignorant) whereas drivers have all the above so it isn't quite as common to see a &*%£ head driver.

I just try to look out for other road users no matter who they are. Treat everyone else as if they're complete retards hell bent on causing carnage and you'll rarely get caught out, if ever.

What does puzzle me is that the second someone dons spendex and gets on a bike they become the most angry person on the face on the planet. I'm often in Manchester city centre and see cyclists yelling at drivers a lot. I don't get where all this aggression comes from. I know it works both ways as there are some psycho drivers out there but this is actually really common with cyclists IME...


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

A ****** is a ****** whatever transport they choose, personally I see more stupid car drivers than I do cyclists though. 

I cycle by the way.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

NiallSD said:


> On your point 2 mate they are well within their rights to cycle 2 abreast. Apart from a busy main road.
> Why is everyone so angry on the roads? At the end of the day we all have the rights to use them.
> There is bad motorcyclists there is bad cyclists there is bad car drivers etc etc.
> having been knocked off my bike once by a car driver when I was following every part of the Highway Code, I am now super careful.
> Maybe you should get on your bike enjoy some fresh air and calm the hell down!


And here in lies the problem. Motorists are usually angry BECAUSE a cyclist insights it. Example, you say cyclists are within their rights to cycle 2 abreast. OK. So 2 people reduce a carriage way down to 10 mph or below, they know there is a que behind them, but they don't move over, they just keep going with NO regard to their fellow road users. Then you get to a set of lights, 2 lanes, 2 vehicles, and they ride down the inside giving you half an inch, only to spread out again and hold you up again. This is total arrogance, especially when they then proceed to "not understand" what peoples problem is

At the end of the day we are all just trying to get from A to B. I know i ALWAYS commute to the best of my ability and with the most care i can, that means being aware of myself AND my surroundings, if a car shouldn't hog a middle lane, a cyclist shouldn't do the same, if a motor vehicle has to stop at a red light, a cyclist should too. If someone is stopped at a set of lights with a left indicator on then you shouldn't squeeze down the side, as you may cause an accident and that motorist may never get over it emotionally, something that is rarely considered.

As someone who rides a bike and drives different sized vehicles i understand the associated dangers on both sides, but the amount of ignorant arrogant cyclists i see even when cycling myself is saddening imo


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

I must admit that I am a bit intolerant to cyclists. 

They just fob me off especially when they cycle two aside or if they're on their own they sometimes hog the whole road & won't keep to the left.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I must admit that I am a bit intolerant to cyclists.
> 
> They just fob me off especially when they cycle two aside or if they're on their own they sometimes hog the whole road & won't keep to the left.


This is the problem, times have changed and this has a big factor into peoples annoyance. When i did my cycling proficiency as a child, i mean a little child, you were taught to take up as little room as possible and NEVER cycle two abreast, now people are told to be as wide as possible for their own safety and to avoid grids, and that cycling in numbers is safety in numbers.

I still hug the curb though, to cause as little issue to other road users as poss, its just my nature to live by my morals


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

NiallSD said:


> On your point 2 mate they are well within their rights to cycle 2 abreast.


Absolutely correct and something that most drivers don't know. As a car driver you are meant to give a single cyclist the same room when overtaking as you would if you were overtaking a car, so two cyclists riding two abreast should be no harder to overtake than a single cyclist.

But most car drivers see fit to squeeze past giving as little room as possible, on occasion clipping you with their near side mirror and/or cutting you up.

The crux of it all is we as road users need to be more tolerant and more understanding of the needs of other road users and not be in such a rush to get everywhere all the time.


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I must admit that I am a bit intolerant to cyclists.
> 
> They just fob me off especially when they cycle two aside or if they're on their own they sometimes hog the whole road & won't keep to the left.


Think for a minute and ask yourself, "why are they NOT" keeping to the left?

Most probably because they are avoiding hitting any iron work, pot holes etc. so, therefore, they are also helping you, the car driver, in reading the road ahead.

Same goes for when approaching a central island, they'll probably tend to move over slightly to inform you, the car driver, that there clearly isn't enough room for both of you.

I agree, most cyclists are a PITA. You want to try and drive in Cambridge, cyclists rule the roads!!!.

Seriously people, read the road ahead, try and anticipate what the cyclist is going to do, because chances are, they will!!

And no, I don't cycle. Too many idiots on the road....


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

What annoys me with cyclist is that I have seen many riding their bikes without any lights on, reflective studs or wearing any high viz jackets, especially in the darker months.


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

As I cyclist im not one of those types but I couldnt count the amount of vehicles on one hand that overtake me whilst doing 28- 32mph in a 30 zone, but hey I dont get nickers in a twist about it. Why dont the rules apply in those situations? Ive never had anyone sit behind me whilst doing those speeds. Ever, I used to commute 5 days a week. I Just pass the when there sat at the next set of lights (and wait in the box) for them to do the same again! 

There are people who simply shouldnt be in control of a motor or non motor vehicle, and its seems most people seem to jump into a metal can with wheels and all of a sudden become fustrated with everything, of course ive had some moments in the car, anyone who says they havent are lying, ive seen people knocked down by old biddys on mobilty scooters for gods sake, lifes to short, move on asap and get on with things


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

People often can't see past their own bonnet. 

I've been doing a bit of cycling recently and the amount of scary moments I've seen in Aberdeen is crazy. 

It is busy and the aggression is already high. The cyclists often get it even though half the time in traffic the time lost is genuinely seconds. 

We try to avoid main roads for that reason. 

Then on the back roads it is amazing just home many drivers completely misjudge the situation. 

We you're 40mph faster than the object you want to pass, it should be easy to plan and pull off safely. However far too many people make a complete mess of it. 

Either they end up squeezing past dangerously close, or the other one that always seem to be done by young women, they are so concerned about giving the bike space, they nearly hit the car coming the other way. 

You also see drivers noticing a bike coming up through the traffic and rather than moving wide and allowing the bike through, they squeeze the gap up. If they were concerned for their car they'd move wide. 

Cyclist shouldn't jump lights etc. It does seem that many think that they have pedestrian rights when on a bike. 

It just seems that too many road users all think the road is only for them. As soon as someone interferes in their progress, or gets ahead of them, they are in the wrong. 

Roads are dangerous enough without more people getting more aggressive.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

neilos said:


> Think for a minute and ask yourself, "why are they NOT" keeping to the left?
> 
> Most probably because they are avoiding hitting any iron work, pot holes etc. so, therefore, they are also helping you, the car driver, in reading the road ahead.


They're not keeping to the left & they seem to weave from left to right as if they are warming their tyres up.

It has nothing to do with potholes, ok sometimes there might be parked cars to the left & of course they would need to move to the right to pass the parked car.

Their positioning is not consistent.


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## kenny wilson (Oct 28, 2008)

Sorry folks, but when the papers start to carry stories of poor motorists killed by the illegal and or inconsiderate use of the roads by cyclists, my heart, may, let out a little blood, 'till then I will try to be a better driver, and not kill other road users.


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## spickup79 (May 14, 2014)

Having re-read my original post, I realise it looks like I am suggesting that all cyclists are bad road users, which I am not. I know there are plenty of good cyclists out there, just as there are loads of complete tools behind the wheels of motor vehicles on the roads each day. But I stand by my assertion that there are loads of cyclists who just don't seem to think that the rules of the roads apply to them. And the guy's attitude today just stank to be honest.



NiallSD said:


> On your point 2 mate they are well within their rights to cycle 2 abreast. Apart from a busy main road.


I was/am actually aware that cyclists are allowed to ride 2 abreast. I wrote that its really annoying when they insist on doing it on busy narrow roads, and force traffic behind them to crawl because there isn't enough room to overtake safely. I've seen plenty of examples of cyclists riding 2 abreast where one cyclist has moved in to allow a car to overtake, and the overtaking car has allowed the cyclists sufficient time and room before overtaking safely - this is good safe road use on the part of everyone. But I've also seen plenty of cyclists riding 2 abreast on a narrow road, being fully aware that they are holding up traffic behind them that cannot overtake due to oncoming traffic, but making absolutely no attempt to allow the vehicles to pass them - this is just selfish and arrogant, and ultimately causes accidents as eventually a car driver loses patience and takes a silly risk in trying to get past.


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## spickup79 (May 14, 2014)

Jem said:


> As a car driver you are meant to give a single cyclist the same room when overtaking as you would if you were overtaking a car, so two cyclists riding two abreast should be no harder to overtake than a single cyclist.
> QUOTE]
> 
> This doesn't make any sense - 2 cyclists presents a wider obstruction for a car to pass, so it has to move further over into the road in order to overtake it and still give it the same room, and thus will more likely end up on the wrong side of the road facing oncoming traffic.


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

spickup79 said:


> Jem said:
> 
> 
> > As a car driver you are meant to give a single cyclist the same room when overtaking as you would if you were overtaking a car, so two cyclists riding two abreast should be no harder to overtake than a single cyclist.
> ...


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## ncd (Dec 12, 2005)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> They're not keeping to the left & they seem to weave from left to right as if they are warming their tyres up.
> 
> It has nothing to do with potholes, ok sometimes there might be parked cars to the left & of course they would need to move to the right to pass the parked car.
> 
> Their positioning is not consistent.


It has everything to do with potholes, lumps in road, glass, stones/gravel, manhole covers etc. Maybe you should take a bike out and then you might just understand why cyclist don't ride in the arrow straight line you assume they should? Funny how sometimes I see threads on car forums about how someone's alloy or paintwork has been wrecked by a pothole or bad road surface and everyone is sympathetic, yet a cyclist tries to avoid destroying their wheels everyone throws fuel on the fire against them! You couldn't make it up!


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

ncd said:


> It has everything to do with potholes, lumps in road, glass, stones/gravel, manhole covers etc. Maybe you should take a bike out and then you might just understand why cyclist don't ride in the arrow straight line you assume they should? Funny how sometimes I see threads on car forums about how someone's alloy or paintwork has been wrecked by a pothole or bad road surface and everyone is sympathetic, yet a cyclist tries to avoid destroying their wheels everyone throws fuel on the fire against them! You couldn't make it up!


This is very true, ruts and holes in the road you don't even notice in the car must be avoided on a bike, unless you fancy chinning the tarmac.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

NiallSD said:


> On your point 2 mate they are well within their rights to cycle 2 abreast. Apart from a busy main road.
> Why is everyone so angry on the roads? At the end of the day we all have the rights to use them.
> There is bad motorcyclists there is bad cyclists there is bad car drivers etc etc.
> having been knocked off my bike once by a car driver when I was following every part of the Highway Code, I am now super careful.
> Maybe you should get on your bike enjoy some fresh air and calm the hell down!


The main reason people get so annoyed at cyclists riding two abreast, it holds people up while two arrogant people have a chat. Yet if a car driver returned the favour, 80% of the lycra crowd would go apopleptic.

Now yes they have a right to use the road but a little consideration wouldn't go amiss and yes i know it works both ways too.

For me it's an inconvenience, especially if there is a big group of them but in the end i can always get past at some point and leave them in my dust.

Oh and didn't the highway code say cyclists are required to cycle single file?


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

*Why not just remember that every cyclist is someones dad, son, brother, sister, mother etc and think about how you would like someone to drive a tonne of fast moving metal around your loved ones. NOTHING else matters.....*

Just like every other road user.

Once you've seen friends seriously injured or worse by careless or deliberate acts of car drivers then your viewpoint might change slightly. if everyone just took a breath then we'd all be a little better off.

Of course everyone quoting the Highway Code should actually read it first and are no doubt faultless perfect drivers who never speed, phone, eat, drink or makemistakes while driving :devil:

Rule 163 - overtaking...


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

True, there are some proper loonies on the road in cars, its one reason why i have a dashboard camera(two instances where it could have been very nasty) but equally you have to agree that there are some very arrogant cyclists using the roads too.
Yes car drivers need to be aware of how vulnerable cyclists are and act accordingly but by the same token, cyclists need to be considerate of motorists who just want to get on with their journey.


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## spickup79 (May 14, 2014)

Jem said:


> spickup79 said:
> 
> 
> > It makes perfect sense, you are not meant to squeeze past a cyclist giving them three and a half inches between your nearside mirror and their right arm as the majority of drivers do. You are meant to give a cyclist the same amount of road as you would if you were overtaking a car, so typically crossing completely to the opposite side of the road. So it matters not if there is one cyclist or two cyclists riding two abreast, the way you manoeuvre your car to overtake should be the same.
> ...


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Jem said:


> spickup79 said:
> 
> 
> > It makes perfect sense, you are not meant to squeeze past a cyclist giving them three and a half inches between your nearside mirror and their right arm as the majority of drivers do. You are meant to give a cyclist the same amount of road as you would if you were overtaking a car, so typically crossing completely to the opposite side of the road. So it matters not if there is one cyclist or two cyclists riding two abreast, the way you manoeuvre your car to overtake should be the same.
> ...


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Bigpikle said:


> *Why not just remember that every cyclist is someones dad, son, brother, sister, mother etc and think about how you would like someone to drive a tonne of fast moving metal around your loved ones. NOTHING else matters.....*
> 
> Just like every other road user.
> 
> ...


How pray tell does that work with 2 cyclists abreast?

I've seen many cyclists ignore lights, ignore pedestrianised zones and not give a damn when they nearly knock pedestrians down.

Considerateness of previous post, *no* road users are exempt.


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## spickup79 (May 14, 2014)

Bigpikle said:


> *Why not just remember that every cyclist is someones dad, son, brother, sister, mother etc and think about how you would like someone to drive a tonne of fast moving metal around your loved ones. NOTHING else matters.....*
> 
> Just like every other road user.
> 
> ...


So in the above image, if there were two cyclists riding side by side, the car would have to mount the pavement to overtake them? 

Tongue firmly in cheek.

The point of me starting this thread was basically to say that, as a driver, I try to obey the rules of the road and show other road users respect and courtesy, and I find it frustrating when others can't do the same. On today's occasion it was a cyclist but often it's a driver. All that's required sometimes is a little thought and awareness to make yours everyone else's journeys easier, more enjoyable and most importantly safer.


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

spickup79 said:


> You're missing the point mate. If overtaking a single cyclist, on many roads it is possible to do this perfectly safely without running the risk of a collision with oncoming traffic. If there are two cyclists side by side, this changes and on many roads it is impossible to overtake without either nearly hitting one of the cyclists or risking a head-on collision with oncoming vehicles.


It's got nothing to do with missing the point, and everything to do with the Highway Code. Isn't the point of this thread to highlight cyclists not obeying the Highway Code, but when it comes to overtaking a cyclist, what the highway Code says can go out the window :lol:


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## NiallSD (May 21, 2013)

Pretty sure that this thread could go on forever and ever. 

Just make sure if any of you are driving around dovercourt, Colchester and clacton please give a little space between my rear wheel and the front of your car unlike the idiot that had me off. 

My bike was 2 days old £3500 and the idiot drove off. 

Maybe we can all agree to disagree and be mindful of each other


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

There is nothing wrong with riding 2 abreast on 2 lane roads. If its not safe to overtake 2 riders then its not safe to overtake 1 in 99% of situations. Many drivers seem to think that if they dont actually hit you then they have passed you safely and that squeezing through between a cyclist and oncoming traffic at the same time is absolutely fine  Even on huge wide A roads when I'm alone and doing 25-30mph causing NO obstructions, I'll have drivers pass me close enough I could reach out and touch the car with no effort at all - try being on the receiving end of that at 50+mph.

Every ride I will have someone deliberately swerve at me or cut me up, throw stuff out a window or some other form of deliberate attempt to intimidate me or impede my journey for no reason other than pure vindictiveness. Having ridden thousands of miles all over Europe its very sad that the UK is BY FAR the worst place you could possibly think about wanting to ride a bike....


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Bigpikle said:


> There is nothing wrong with riding 2 abreast on 2 lane roads. If its not safe to overtake 2 riders then its not safe to overtake 1 in 99% of situations. Many drivers seem to think that if they dont actually hit you then they have passed you safely and that squeezing through between a cyclist and oncoming traffic at the same time is absolutely fine  Even on huge wide A roads when I'm alone and doing 25-30mph causing NO obstructions, I'll have drivers pass me close enough I could reach out and touch the car with no effort at all - try being on the receiving end of that at 50+mph.
> 
> Every ride I will have someone deliberately swerve at me or cut me up, throw stuff out a window or some other form of deliberate attempt to intimidate me or impede my journey for no reason other than pure vindictiveness. Having ridden thousands of miles all over Europe its very sad that the UK is BY FAR the worst place you could possibly think about wanting to ride a bike....


You haven't looked at the picture you posted and thought about this at all have you?


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## ferted (May 7, 2011)

All well and good until you're indicating to turn left and as you start your manouvere some knob on a pushbike decides to shoot past on the left!!
Luckily for him I saw him,thing that really pi**ed me off was when I blasted my horn at him he turned round and stuck his finger up at me like it was my fault!!
So next time he's going over my bonnet and I'll sue his ass for being such a two hat!!


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

It's true SOME cyclists are really bad, swerving in and out, not wearing visible clothing/lights etc. 
However as a car driver I have to say the driving standards in cities and motorways have never been so bad.
I think some people have the attitude that because they pay so much to be on the road, they have priority over other users.

Part of the problem is the density of vehicles all fighting for space on the roads, traffic and roadworks which make people lose a lot of patience and then taking unnecessary risks.
The amount of people who decide to indicate at the very last second, speeding around the corners, people driving like they are on a time trial and not keeping a safe distance behind the car in front (especially on motorways to let in cars from the slip road forcing cars over to the next lane)!!!
The amount of aggressive drivers who don't see the issue of tailgating is incredible. If I had to brake in an emergency I would be rear ended! Also the fact that all they are doing is getting to the red light or traffic ahead a little quicker.

If people leave a few minutes early, and not be so aggressive in their driving style then it would cut out a lot of the problems imo.

Anyway I have learned to keep my distance from cyclists, give them plenty of space and don't overtake until it's safe, even if it means there may be a que behind. 
It's not worth risking causing an accident to save a few seconds on a journey, when the chances are that you will only reach traffic down the road.

I'm not a cyclist, and haven't rode a bike in over 20 years but I can appreciate how difficult and dangerous it can be. 
I remember watching top gear challenge with Hammond on a bicycle. Cyclists cant accelerate and brake anything like the average car is capable of.


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## chefy (May 9, 2011)

Huge bone of contention for me, on ALL counts, Edinburgh is so so bad for cyclists going through red lights including pedestrian crossings, only last week I (and a few others) were crossing on a pedestrian crossing, lights were on red, green man was on, a double decker bus was stopped on the inside lane, we were crossing and a cyclist came flying down the outside lane and straight through the crossing missing me by barely a couple of inches !!

I enjoy a drive on some country roads near where I live, and it is all too often spoiled by a "gaggle" of cyclists that are in fact 3 abreast - although they are actually 2 side by side but like this l l
l l
l l
hope you see what I mean, and there can be many, cycling away having a wee chat amongst themselves changing places so they can all have a wee chat with each other !! With absolutely NO respect or consideration for all the cars stuck behind them ! 
I am totally with the O P and stangalang on this one !!


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

As kh904 pointed out, the driving standards these days are shocking, in fact 95% of the people driving these days couldn't drive a greasy stick up a dogs backside.

However, equally the cyclists amongst us have to acknowledge that most of their brethren are a liability on the road.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

muzzer42 said:


> As kh904 pointed out, the driving standards these days are shocking, in fact 95% of the people driving these days couldn't drive a greasy stick up a dogs backside.
> 
> However, equally the cyclists amongst us have to acknowledge that most of their brethren are a liability on the road.


The majority of cyclists are generally quite sensible, but cambridge is a centre for those cyclists and other road users who live in their own bubbles.

Those that think cycle paths are just for other cyclists, those that think it's acceptable to swing into roads without looking, those that think it's acceptable to impede other road users progress.

If you ran into the road without looking what would you expect to happen? There would be nobody to fault apart from yourself, so why would it be different on a cycle?


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## kenny wilson (Oct 28, 2008)

" There would be nobody to fault apart from yourself"
The victim


Apart, perhaps, from the vehicle driver that was driving beyond sight lines, faster than was safe, although within the posted limit, not leaving enough stopping distance for the environmental risks/surrounding persons resorting/weather etc.
Some may even say, driving without due care and attention


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

kenny wilson said:


> " There would be nobody to fault apart from yourself"
> The victim
> 
> Apart, perhaps, from the vehicle driver that was driving beyond sight lines, faster than was safe, although within the posted limit, not leaving enough stopping distance for the environmental risks/surrounding persons resorting/weather etc.
> Some may even say, driving without due care and attention


Stopping distance as someone runs out between cars in a 30?

Sure, you'd be doing 20 or less, but you'd get pretty close. There are some occasions that you cannot plan for, you can maybe expect up to a degree, but who actually caused the accident?

Is it just as acceptable to cycle with no attention as walking or driving?

Maybe the green cross code serves no purpose these days as it can never be the fault of anyone but the driver?


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## kenny wilson (Oct 28, 2008)

But surely this is the problem, I nearly hit a couple of kids that ran out between parked vans a couple of years ago, nearly; but it still messed me up for weeks.
I was travelling very warily and still got a fright, as did they, I managed to stop, but, another day, and they would have been dead. 
That is the difference, as motorists, we can get a fright, get points, even lose our licence, but, if there is' nobody to blame but yourself' may leave you in the right, but, it puts some in the ground.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

kenny wilson said:


> But surely this is the problem, I nearly hit a couple of kids that ran out between parked vans a couple of years ago, nearly; but it still messed me up for weeks.
> I was travelling very warily and still got a fright, as did they, I managed to stop, but, another day, and they would have been dead.
> That is the difference, as motorists, we can get a fright, get points, even lose our licence, but, if there is' nobody to blame but yourself' may leave you in the right, but, it puts some in the ground.


Maybe they don't teach the green cross code these days.

It wouldn't have been your fault, it would have been theirs. Would this make you feel any better? Probably not, but as adults you'd hope people would have more common sense/awareness and take responsibility for their actions.


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## kenny wilson (Oct 28, 2008)

Again, there's the rub, it's easy enough to get on a bike, ride like an r5se and be described as a cyclist, disrespect every other road user and any law you fancy and decry the world for treating you as the fanny you are.
Equally it is, mostly, easy to breed, create another life without even the skills to cope with your own, let them out without any form of basic direction or life skills training, and when horrible things happen, sadly; it will always be somebody else's fault.

May be right, but, doesn't make you feel better.


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## jamie_s (Jul 10, 2009)

I'd love to know how a cyclists mentality changes once they get on a bike. I nearly ran one over last week. Me pulling out of a junction turning right. To the right there is a crossing with a red light saw the cars stopped there, checked left and started pulling out as I checked right again to see a cyclist flying through the crossing at about 30, if I'd not checked again he'd have been dead. Absolute moron and there are too many like him on the roads.


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## kenny wilson (Oct 28, 2008)

" if I'd not checked again he'd have been dead"

Indeed, but, let's be fair, that's only what we should, and do, do, every day; hence we are here and able to continue this somewhat pointless discussion.

" Absolute moron and there are too many like him on the roads. "

Again, yes, but, as I pointed out in an earlier post, where are the stats for cyclist V motor vehicle RTC's where the motor vehicle driver becomes a fatality? 

There are many morons on our roads, not all possess the capability to kill.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

kenny wilson said:


> " if I'd not checked again he'd have been dead"
> 
> Indeed, but, let's be fair, that's only what we should, and do, do, every day; hence we are here and able to continue this somewhat pointless discussion.
> 
> ...


The kind of cyclists that show ignorance to other road users, also show the same ignorance to pedestrians. Being hit by a cyclist at 30mph still could be serious.

If, however, you're positioned so that it's difficult for a cyclist to undertake you, generally they tend to think a bit more.


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## jamie_s (Jul 10, 2009)

kenny wilson said:


> " if I'd not checked again he'd have been dead"
> 
> Indeed, but, let's be fair, that's only what we should, and do, do, every day; hence we are here and able to continue this somewhat pointless discussion.
> 
> ...


Whats your point? If there is ever a time where you wouldn't check again it is this instance, there were stationary cars that would have been nowhere near me even if the lights changed to green the instance I looked away, he must have flown past the cars at 30 mph with no regard to pedestrians crossing (he will have had very limited vision of the crossing due to all the cars), or realising there was a junction just after.
Yes there are idiots driving cars, busses, lorries, riding motorcycles etc, but there are also many more of those vehicles on the road. If we could actually put a percentage on inconsiderate/dangerous cyclists compared to considerate/safer cyclists, the percentage of the former would be muuuuuuch higher than that of any other road user, except perhaps bus drivers :lol:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

jamie_s said:


> Whats your point? If there is ever a time where you wouldn't check again it is this instance, there were stationary cars that would have been nowhere near me even if the lights changed to green the instance I looked away, he must have flown past the cars at 30 mph with no regard to pedestrians crossing (he will have had very limited vision of the crossing due to all the cars), or realising there was a junction just after.
> Yes there are idiots driving cars, busses, lorries, riding motorcycles etc, but there are also many more of those vehicles on the road. If we could actually put a percentage on inconsiderate/dangerous cyclists compared to considerate/safer cyclists, the percentage of the former would be muuuuuuch higher than that of any other road user, except perhaps bus drivers :lol:


You forgot tractor drivers. There's no such thing as a considerate tractor driver.


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## kenny wilson (Oct 28, 2008)

Again, I see the stats piling in for the number of other road users, or even pedestrians killed by these abberant cyclists that variously travel so slowly that they shoudn't be allowed on the road, or conversly top 30+ when it suits the story.


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## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

RisingPower said:


> You forgot tractor drivers. There's no such thing as a considerate tractor driver.


As a tractor driver myself, I take serious issue with that statement. There are no more inconsiderate tractor drivers than there are inconsiderate car drivers or cyclists 

As with the issue of cyclists, it only takes a very small number misbehaving to give the impression that all are like it.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Mugwump said:


> As a tractor driver myself, I take serious issue with that statement. There are no more inconsiderate tractor drivers than there are inconsiderate car drivers or cyclists
> 
> As with the issue of cyclists, it only takes a very small number misbehaving to give the impression that all are like it.


********, tell me you don't pick rush hour to drive down major roads and that you occasionally give way to traffic. If you do, then you're like no other tractor driver i've come across.


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## jamie_s (Jul 10, 2009)

kenny wilson said:


> Again, I see the stats piling in for the number of other road users, or even pedestrians killed by these abberant cyclists that variously travel so slowly that they shoudn't be allowed on the road, or conversly top 30+ when it suits the story.


I still fail to see your point, are you saying that because there are little deaths caused by cyclists that it doesn't matter what they do? 
I believe the main issue people have is how inconsiderate they are, ie causing tailbacks when they could move over, riding 2 abreast etc. Quite often they go through red lights but look carefully so don't cause any trouble, just like we could in our cars, the difference is we'd get punished for it, of course that's going to pi55 people off, if they can carefully go through red lights, why can't we?
It's usually their slow speeds that cause us grief, but they are also capable of some speed downhill which was the case when the moron flew through the crossing, he was on a proper road bike in all the getup, not just some pikey on a push bike.
Obviously the cyclists are smaller lighter and slower than any other vehicle on the road so naturally won't cause many deaths, but that's not the point.
Follow the rules of the road and be considerate, that's all I ask, I try to do the same.
I'm a biker, so I think naturally I'm more aware than a lot of road users, I do believe in that situation, ~80% (rough guess) would have hit the to55er, and it would've been his own fault.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Mugwump said:


> As a tractor driver myself, I take serious issue with that statement. There are no more inconsiderate tractor drivers than there are inconsiderate car drivers or cyclists
> 
> As with the issue of cyclists, it only takes a very small number misbehaving to give the impression that all are like it.


like tractor drivers... the amount you see shouting into their mobile phones....

the number of tractor trailer combos with no lighting/ no working on the trailer / no visible reg plate.

Driving with "field lights" on the road

defective/ obscured amber beacons,

brakes for the trailer not attached,

leaking hydraulic couplings,

leaking slurry from Bowsers

hideously overloaded trailers with a bale on the front loading forks to try and level it out..

passengers standing in the cab where there is no "baby seat"

one 10t ratchet strap holding 10 to 20 bales in place across the last bale at the back

A tractor "escorting" large machinery when they should be using a properly marked escort vehicle for the task

http://assets.highways.gov.uk/speci...for abnormal load self escorting vehicles.pdf

Yes cyclists do a lot wrong but its very easy to tar every operator of a vehicle regardless of size or type with the same brush :wave:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

jamie_s said:


> I still fail to see your point, are you saying that because there are little deaths caused by cyclists that it doesn't matter what they do?
> I believe the main issue people have is how inconsiderate they are, ie causing tailbacks when they could move over, riding 2 abreast etc. Quite often they go through red lights but look carefully so don't cause any trouble, just like we could in our cars, the difference is we'd get punished for it, of course that's going to pi55 people off, if they can carefully go through red lights, why can't we?
> It's usually their slow speeds that cause us grief, but they are also capable of some speed downhill which was the case when the moron flew through the crossing, he was on a proper road bike in all the getup, not just some pikey on a push bike.
> Obviously the cyclists are smaller lighter and slower than any other vehicle on the road so naturally won't cause many deaths, but that's not the point.
> ...


I think there are cyclists that charities openly admit give cyclists in general a bad name and by the nature of there being a higher number of cyclists in cambridge, you're going to get more anti social, inconsiderate cyclists.

They also tend to be fairweather cyclists who get into vehicles and drive just the same.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

andy monty said:


> like tractor drivers... the amount you see shouting into their mobile phones....
> 
> the number of tractor trailer combos with no lighting/ no working on the trailer / no visible reg plate.
> 
> ...


Just last week there was one tractor dumping more straw onto the road than was left on it, another dumping either seed or granules onto the road, peppering cars with crap.

Yet to see a tractor driver pull over or give a damn about anything but themselves wherever i've been.

I openly admit the majority of cyclists are considerate and cycle just fine.


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## jamie_s (Jul 10, 2009)

RisingPower said:


> I think there are cyclists that charities openly admit give cyclists in general a bad name and by the nature of there being a higher number of cyclists in cambridge, you're going to get more anti social, inconsiderate cyclists.
> 
> They also tend to be fairweather cyclists who get into vehicles and drive just the same.


I can't comment on that as I'm just sharing my personal experiences in Sheffield where there aren't that many, yet still see many inconsiderate riders compared to the total number.
I've only been to Cambridge once and I couldn't believe my eyes, never seen so many cyclists other than in Amsterdam! 
And yes, many ar5eholes were witnessed there too, you'd think they'd ride more carefully given their vulnerability, seems as though they have a death wish.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

jamie_s said:


> I can't comment on that as I'm just sharing my personal experiences in Sheffield where there aren't that many, yet still see many inconsiderate riders compared to the total number.
> I've only been to Cambridge once and I couldn't believe my eyes, never seen so many cyclists other than in Amsterdam!
> And yes, many ar5eholes were witnessed there too, you'd think they'd ride more carefully given their vulnerability, seems as though they have a death wish.


To be fair though, there are an awful lot of exceedingly inconsiderate drivers in Sheffield too, especially along the Parkway and around Meadowhall area.


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## Barney Boy (Feb 12, 2013)

Not a cyclist myself. Travelling back to Newquay this afternoon was in a line of traffic following a cyclist on an incline with bends in road.Cyclist reached top of incline got himself to side of road and let traffic go,when he could of carried on downhill holding us up due bends and traffic.I passed him and put my hand up and he acknowledged.I was following a car with cycle carrier on rear that had two bikes attached.Bikes were covering part of number plate and obscuring rear lights.Trying to work out if the driver would be as considerate as the cyclist we just passed when he was out riding his bike. I used to drive a road roller at max 8 mph,driven HGV .JCBs etc.Have seen all sorts out there but believe it is the person not mode of transport.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Barney Boy said:


> I was following a car with cycle carrier on rear that had two bikes attached.Bikes were covering part of number plate and obscuring rear lights.


that really boils my ps cant read their number plate cant see their brake lights.....


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## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

RisingPower said:


> ********, tell me you don't pick rush hour to drive down major roads and that you occasionally give way to traffic. If you do, then you're like no other tractor driver i've come across.


I will tell you exactly that.

Most tractor drivers will try to avoid using busy roads if possible. Unfortunately for you, there are some times of year when the farm workload is such that we don't have the luxury of being able to choose the ideal time to move on the roads.

I always pull over to let traffic clear when there is a suitable place to pull off. However, when on a main road, and there are stretches of straight clear road on which traffic can easily overtake, it is entirely unreasonable to expect a tractor to pull off and stop. The biggest problem with slow moving vehicles is the cretins immediately behind who are either too incapable or too stupid to overtake when the opportunity arises, and then block all the traffic further back. Direct your ire at them. If traffic behind me has a clear road for overtaking and they choose not to, that is not my problem and I won't be pulling over.

In my experience, the majority of tractor drivers take a similar view, and just because you have come across a few who don't behave as they should, don't tar us all with the same brush. It is just as erroneous as the stereotyping of cyclists or van drivers.

It's not as though all you car drivers are exactly paragons of virtue 

I entirely agree with you about the misuse of worklamps on the highway - it is a pet hate of mine, and one for which i usually point out to the perpetrator that they could well incur a fine of up to £2000 for such an offence. Flashing beacons are another issue - they are only a legal requirement for vehicles not able to legally exceed 25mph when travelling on a dual carriageway.

If you see a tractor (or any other vehicle for that matter) which you think is breaking the law, I would strongly suggest that you report them. They make me just as angry as they do you.


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