# Help with Garden, preparing for turf....



## Starbuck88

Hi All,

So as some of you know, we bought and moved into a new build in December and it's time to get the garden sorted.

As you can see it was left in a sorry state for us..










And it wasn't level as you can see and it also slopes downwards towards the gate.










I bought a rotavator from Argos when it was on offer for £50 and it's made light work of cutting through the mud allowing me to level it out.

It still needs levelling more but without adding lots and lots of soil, it's lowered the height of the garden..










It still needs more work to get it completely flat however, it's getting there and I've removed lots of stones.

The problem, is that the soil is very clay like, as soon as it gets wet, it just kind of sticks together and doesn't let water drain down through. Neighbours who had their turf in the deal aren't happy as their gardens are just swamps now, not level etc. So I'm glad we got other things and I'm now able to do this correctly.

How would you guys remedy this so I can lay turf? I have bought some topsoil to put across the top for a nice bed for the turf to go on, however it's not enough to help drainage if I mix it in.

Should I be looking to buy a couple bulk bags of sharp sand to mix in with the rotavator? Does it have to be 'sharp' sand too?

How much though I guess is the question?

Any thoughts, I'm up for any advice as I want to get this right.


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## Darlofan

Can't help but I'm sure there'll be lots of great advice on its way. I'm annoyed at how developers get away with leaving gardens and drainage in such a bad state. We had it in our last house where garden was a quagmire for more than half the year. We now have a new estate opposite us where several residents are suing the builders because the gardens are like bogs. They were warned the field they wanted to build on was bad as there are underground springs everywhere(even the farmer didn't use it before he sold). They got planning as they claimed drainage for 150 houses was put in for only 43 so it would be more than adequate. It clearly hasn't worked.


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## empsburna

You could probably lay it on a couple of inches of sharp sand but you might want to take some of it away and look at some drainage options.

You might also struggle with moss too. 

Could you look at a soakaway arrangement towards the bottom where it slopes off? Create a border that is decorative and functional?


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## alan hanson

all that money on new builds nowadays and they dont come with grass?


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## Kiashuma

Try and put drainage in if you can. I got turf with mine and with all the rain we get its a bog 80% of the year. Would love to have it like yours a blank canvas to start and get correct from the off.


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## J306TD

Had this with ours. Was fairly level. Spent a couple of months turning it over to remove stones and weeds. Wish I had paid more to have some of the top mud removed then. Good quality top soil before the turf. It takes a good while for it to dry out 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


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## empsburna

Looking at the pictures again on a proper screen you deffo need to improve the soil and drainage. You could lose about 15 ton of mud and still need to scrape some more out.


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## Oakey22

Be careful with putting the soil level with the wooden fence. It's gonna rot it in no time. Build in a soak away while you have the choice and put drainage in before you get the turf down.


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## empsburna

There is a downpipe up the corner, do you pay for rainwater run off to drains? French drain arrangement along the sides and in front of the house just in case?


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## Jaggs

We went down artificial turf route, it's laid on hardcore and sand so drains perfectly and when we tell people it's not real they have to kneel down and stroke it as they don't believe me  best thing we ever did


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## Starbuck88

empsburna said:


> There is a downpipe up the corner, do you pay for rainwater run off to drains? French drain arrangement along the sides and in front of the house just in case?


I don't think so as the whole area we are has big soakaways under brick paved shared access spaces.

I only think the roads have typical storm drains.

I may have what you ask wrapped around me head though. (We're young and it's our first purchased property), only rented a top floor flat together beforehand.

The garden is at the back though and it backs onto a field earmarked for future development, the front of the house is only accessible via a pathway is also used for next door to access their garden too.

After really looking into it today, like I said, rotavated it, added a bit of top soil etc. To get this done right and for the size of the garden, it's going to cost alot and the effort and time involved doesn't seem worth it.

My other half is off today (I work from home) and she and I have now leaned towards the thought of just levelling out what is there and just build a frame and deck the entire lot and go for some ultra modern minimalist design with say some raised sleeper beds for planting in?

At least that way we could entertain and use the space all year round.

We were planning on decking over the patio and each side of it anyway, then with the addition of a shed, is it worth going through the cost and time involved for such a small area?

What do you think?


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## empsburna

From personal experience I would do some hard landscaping but you don't want too much of the water back towards the house. 

Maybe raised borders with gravel/slate down the bottom and around the parts that meet the house? You really don't want it running towards the edges or side of house. I suspect they knew this for the way it slopes.

decking in nice deep piers spaced fairly closely (or some mid span support) should give you enough so that it doesn't stand in too much water and cause more of an issue. Plenty of borders with sleepers and drainage will look good.


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## empsburna

Maybe some nice bushes that like plenty of water? Depends on which way the house faces and how much sun you get.

//edit - I would really think about digging some of that out and taking it away.


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## Starbuck88

empsburna said:


> Maybe some nice bushes that like plenty of water? Depends on which way the house faces and how much sun you get.
> 
> //edit - I would really think about digging some of that out and taking it away.


That's the other thing... not sure what its like peak summer, but now half the garden is in shade at the suns highest point...


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## empsburna

What have neighbours done?


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## Starbuck88

empsburna said:


> What have neighbours done?


Next door to us is empty but the other 2 are sold and being lived in, after speaking to one that has moved in, the turf has just been laid over this really thick clay soil, it's sagged into the ground, uneven, bumpy etc with water logged boggy areas all over it and it's unuseable, the weather recently has been appauling.

They're going to pull it all up and try something else too I think.

I mean during summer with minimal rainfall, It'd be fine but then you just wouldn't be able to even think of going near the grass 8 months out of the year...


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## turbosnoop

I say get laying decking. I've laid two decks so far. I really like the stuff. We have clay soil here, it can be boggy ish, but only really when there's heavy rain out of summer. Be warmed soak always don't work very well with clay soil.


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## Starbuck88

turbosnoop said:


> I say get laying decking. I've laid two decks so far. I really like the stuff. We have clay soil here, it can be boggy ish, but only really when there's heavy rain out of summer. Be warmed soak always don't work very well with clay soil.


Yes that's what I've been reading, due to it being so thick the water doesn't typically get to the soak aways anyway.

Think I'll have a measure up and get a cost on materials for decking.


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## LeadFarmer

Mowing a small lawn can be a pain, and sometimes not worth the hassle of getting the mower out etc. You'd need to rotavate lots of grit and sharp sand into your soil, and then mix some top soil.

Personally i'd be tempted to ignore the lawn idea and instead increase the size of the patio as its currently tiny, extend it across the full width of the garden and then dedicate the remainder of the garden purely to planting, maybe even with a small wildlife pond and a small tree to hang bird feeders from such as multi stem silver birch of a Amelanchier lamarckii (June Berry) tree. Plant Clematis up against any of the fencing that gets the sun, and shade loving climbers against any fencing thats in shade. Ferns grow well in shade. Any bare soil left could be covered with wood bark chippings Maybe factor in a narrow path curving through it from the patio doors to the gate in the fence?

Heres a crappy sketch I've done on your photo to give you an idea...


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## Andyg_TSi

Did my garden last year.

Went from this.....






To this......







As above post, your crying out for a proper patio/decked area from the rear doors......somewhere to sit out if the weather is nice.

False lawn is always another good option.....as is a rockery at the end of the garden........

Just posted up mine to give you an idea.


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## tightlines

LeadFarmer said:


> Mowing a small lawn can be a pain, and sometimes not worth the hassle of getting the mower out etc. You'd need to rotavate lots of grit and sharp sand into your soil, and then mix some top soil.
> 
> Personally i'd be tempted to ignore the lawn idea and instead increase the size of the patio as its currently tiny, extend it across the full width of the garden and then dedicate the remainder of the garden purely to planting, maybe even with a small wildlife pond and a small tree to hang bird feeders from such as multi stem silver birch of a Amelanchier lamarckii (June Berry) tree. Plant Clematis up against any of the fencing that gets the sun, and shade loving climbers against any fencing thats in shade. Ferns grow well in shade. Any bare soil left could be covered with wood bark chippings Maybe factor in a narrow path curving through it from the patio doors to the gate in the fence?
> 
> Heres a crappy sketch I've done on your photo to give you an idea...


this made me laugh


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## Dannbodge

I'm starting to lay turf tomorrow in my back garden. It's currently block paved.
We've removed about 6.5m x 4m of pavers and sand and got loads of top soil ready to go down


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## Barney Boy

Ground needs to dry out a bit first had a bit of rain lately down here.Work out where you can sit in the sun for patio/deck area.Steps to gate could be put in.Local Cornish hedge/walling to retain.Sharp sand to help drainage.Keep soil away from base of fence.Could use granite/local stone(larger size so it is not attractive to cats) over landscape matting with plants put in so no weeding.


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## robertdon777

Starbuck88 said:


> I don't think so as the whole area we are has big soakaways under brick paved shared access spaces.
> 
> I only think the roads have typical storm drains.
> 
> I may have what you ask wrapped around me head though. (We're young and it's our first purchased property), only rented a top floor flat together beforehand.
> 
> The garden is at the back though and it backs onto a field earmarked for future development, the front of the house is only accessible via a pathway is also used for next door to access their garden too.
> 
> After really looking into it today, like I said, rotavated it, added a bit of top soil etc. To get this done right and for the size of the garden, it's going to cost alot and the effort and time involved doesn't seem worth it.
> 
> My other half is off today (I work from home) and she and I have now leaned towards the thought of just levelling out what is there and just build a frame and deck the entire lot and go for some ultra modern minimalist design with say some raised sleeper beds for planting in?
> 
> At least that way we could entertain and use the space all year round.
> 
> We were planning on decking over the patio and each side of it anyway, then with the addition of a shed, is it worth going through the cost and time involved for such a small area?
> 
> What do you think?


Hard landscape a small garden, you will get far more use out of it.

http://flowergardengirl.co.uk/tag/screen/page/5/


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## robertdon777

Hard landscape, fake lawn, sorted.


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## SuperMin

Deck it or pave it, then plant in raised beds if I were you. The clay soil under turf will only ever cause you dissappointment unless you dig it all out. Honestly not worth the hassle. A modern hard landscaped garden can be amazing, as demonstrated in photos above. You'll get more use and enjoyment from it.


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## LeadFarmer

tightlines said:


> this made me laugh


Im available for private commissions


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## Kiashuma

LeadFarmer said:


> Im available for private commissions


I thought you had drawn mine, complete with flood in the middle :lol:


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## turbosnoop

Just some pics here to get you thinking about what you can do with decking. Here's my two decks.The weathers miserable outside, its been raining through the night, I just took these pics now so it doesn't do anything justice tbh, plus I'm in the process of tidying up the garden for the summer, staining /replacing fence panels etc, and relaying bits of turf.Im actually in the process of extending the one decking, you'll see there's two strips on the right that are more yellow looking than the rest.
Decks feel great on glorious sunny days, it sounds daft but even the feel of them under your feet is really nice on a sunny day. Something you won't get with slabs. 
On this first pic once I saw how the sun fell last thing on an evening, I wanted to lay decking in a place so i could sit and get the very last bit of sun on an evening. I boxed the area in by fitting the shed where you can see it, you'll also see a fence I added between the shed and original fence. All this boxing in is to stop any draughts, and to make the area private so that my neighbours can't see, which is always a good thing. You have to picture it midsummer with a couple of sun loungers , a small table with a large parasol and a cold glass of beer. You get the idea (I don't know what's going on with the right hand side of the shed as its perfectly plumb in real life, some sort of camera issue gone on there)
















This is another one I did, I didn't plan on doing it, but I found the decking in a clearance sale , it was dirt cheap, so I ended up filling the car :lol:
The problem I had here was that it was full of badly laid 3x2 slabs, a manhole and an overgenerous amount of concrete used to fill spaces which really needed about 3 seperate slabs. A mess. So I covered it all over, there's an access hatch in the decking so the manhole cover can be lifted up should we ever need to. I plan to extend this decking one day to cover up the remaining messy bits, badly laid slabs etc. This decks in the shade, got two young kids, so when its too hot to sit at the other deck we will sit here. We've had some great bbqs on this deck as a family. 








Hope you may get some inspiration from this? Indian sand stone paving is very nice too. I tend to sit back on things until I've had a great idea, if I act on mediocre ones I only regret it later, when a better idea springs into my head


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## Dannbodge

Finished my garden today




























The grass is laid on about 50mm of top soil  which is on top of sharp sand. It measures 13ft x 10ft.


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## Titanium Htail

I might be tempted with the knowledge that drainage is already a problem for next door to put some clay pipes in now before the lawn, just a trench. Part of my own lawn is in shade so that grass challenging at times. 

What about some plastic membrane to keep that damp soil directly off the wood, or a small retaining wall to help level it up, a great space full of potential. We chopped down six big conifers only for the guy behind to then plant his own which are now ever bigger.

Have fun enjoy that space.

John Tht.


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## Starbuck88

Thank you for all the suggestions and pictures, please keep posting, is nice to see what others have done for inspiration.

I think at the moment, swmbo definately wants at least an area of grass...looks like I will have to try and improve the soil somewhat and add in drainage to the area where the grass will be.


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## ngy

Any updates OP?

I moved into a new build in Jan and I am just starting to prepare my garden this weekend. I have just started setting out the decking.


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## Starbuck88

Nothing yet I'm afraid. I did a small garden bit at the front of the house to smarten it up as they leave these places looking poo.

This was before:










This is after (Well nearly finished only pic I had of that day):










Put lots of different plants in there, snap dragons etc.










Ref the back Garden and purpose of this thread:

I've bought some more topsoil and some sharp sand to mix in down the side where it seems to hold water the most. Then I'm going to turf it.

So this weeks evening job is to rotavate it all again, level it out more then add the sharp sand and layer it all with the topsoil.

I've decided that due to the size of the area that will actually be grassed when I get a shed in there and decking. I can just re-do the area if it gets bad in winter. For now, it'll all get turfed


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## Starbuck88

Well I spent 4 hours, raking, adding in sharp sand and more topsoil to improve the level and condition of the soil last night.

Going to get 8 more bags of top soil this evening and I've ordered the turf.

It does seem much much better than it was and with it all being level the whole thing just looks nicer.

This is an in progress picture with sand mixed in but I've since added another layer of topsoil to try and get it as flat as possible.










with the money constraints I figure that I've done as best I can, I'll get the turf down and if it needs it, when established, hollow tine it to help it even more.


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## LeadFarmer

Make sure you tamp it all down with your feet before laying turf, or when it settles you'll have a bumpy lawn.


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## Starbuck88

LeadFarmer said:


> Make sure you tamp it all down with your feet before laying turf, or when it settles you'll have a bumpy lawn.


Thank you, I did do the foot shuffle, must of looked barmey if anybody was watching me do it lol


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## Andyg_TSi

Starbuck88 said:


> Thank you, I did do the foot shuffle, must of looked barmey if anybody was watching me do it lol


Does you have concrete Base panels to the fencing, or is it just wood fencing into the ground?

If it's just wood fencing down to ground level, you might want to consider a border to the lawn with a suitable concrete edging stones.
You don't want to be piling loads of top soil etc on the ground, that's up against the fence & potentially causing the bottom of the fencing to rot.


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## Starbuck88

Tadaaaaaaaaaa....










Very happy with it currently, just hope it settles in nicely and takes root OK. I've done all that I can to relieve compaction, add sand, add soil, level it out.

Will just see how it goes.

Bit of camera trickery there but it is flat apart from near the gate, as I'm going to get some railway sleepers and make some steps then that can be brought up to level with the rest of the garden.

Once the grass has settled in, I can get to work on either extending the patio or deck the width of the house to create a solid area to sit for BBQs etc. (The reason I've turfed it all is because I may not get time to do it very soon so at least the area will be usable until that time comes)


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## Kiashuma

Looks good, keep it well watered if its dry.


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## Starbuck88

Kiashuma said:


> Looks good, keep it well watered if its dry.


I watered it all last night after I put it down, I'll do it again when I've finished work.

I understand it should take about 10(ish) days for it to root.

How long until the join lines disappear? I've left no gaps and knitted them tight so hoping it should look seamless in no time.


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## turbosnoop

Looks far more usable, well done, and somewhere you can actually sit and relax in, as apposed to before. However isn't your fence going to rot on the left hand side as it looks like the turf is up to it. I can see you wanted to level the garden out. Seems a bit lazy of the developers to leave the plot with such unlevel ground, our 1970s house back garden is fairly unlevel, and it annoys me. Hope you get it all how you want it, best of luck.
On another note, do you have to wheel your wheely bin through your gate by any chance? Just wheeling them up and down steps gets tiresome


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## Starbuck88

turbosnoop said:


> Looks far more usable, well done, and somewhere you can actually sit and relax in, as apposed to before. However isn't your fence going to rot on the left hand side as it looks like the turf is up to it. I can see you wanted to level the garden out. Seems a bit lazy of the developers to leave the plot with such unlevel ground, our 1970s house back garden is fairly unlevel, and it annoys me. Hope you get it all how you want it, best of luck.
> On another note, do you have to wheel your wheely bin through your gate by any chance? Just wheeling them up and down steps gets tiresome


Thanks for all the positive comments  Can't wait to use it!

Sorry I'm not sure if it was you or someone else that mentioned the fence before, I forgot to say, on the left hand side where the fence is, I've put all the stones I raked out next to it before a layer of soil on top, I'm hoping that means the water there will drain well and not cause too much of an issue, well...not quickly anyway. I'll have to keep an eye on how dry the grass gets.

The bins will be out the front so that gate is just access to the garden if we don't want to go through the house.

Saying that, we've not even got bin men coming to ours yet, I do a weekly dump trip at the moment, ha.


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## Kiashuma

Starbuck88 said:


> I watered it all last night after I put it down, I'll do it again when I've finished work.
> 
> I understand it should take about 10(ish) days for it to root.
> 
> How long until the join lines disappear? I've left no gaps and knitted them tight so hoping it should look seamless in no time.


From memory i stayed off mine for 6 weeks and it was all knitted together by then.


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## Rowan83

Awesome job.

We moved into a new build August 14, turfed the garden but as it slopes in 2 directions all the rain we had in December/January killed off a large part of the garden.

Slowly sorting it out now....


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## Starbuck88

Well the grass been down for nearly 3 weeks. It's grown incredibly well and got very long.

As it's only a small garden and currently got no shed to keep electric goodies I bought this for £26 from Homebase this evening and set to work.



















I'm surprised actually, it's very good.

So before...










I had the mower on the highest setting...(I need to cut the edges but don't have a strimmer or anything yet, will get something this weekend).










I won't let it get as long as it was now that it's established, I'll get some liquid feed at the weekend too just to help it along and green up in the slightly yellow areas.


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## Guest

With a cylinder mower, even on its highest setting, you'll need to be cutting that twice a week. Cylinder mowers don't handle long grass blades particularly well, they're much better on shorter grass. 

Once the grass is well established and cut regularly, lower the blades and you could end up with a very neat looking lawn.


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## slim_boy_fat

Apologies if I'm wrong, but it _looks_ like you've dumped the cuttings in a pile in the corner [against a gate?].

If you leave them there and add to the heap, you'll end up with a smelly, slimy pile as it rots down.

Bag them and remove is the answer.


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## Starbuck88

slim_boy_fat said:


> Apologies if I'm wrong, but it _looks_ like you've dumped the cuttings in a pile in the corner [against a gate?].
> 
> If you leave them there and add to the heap, you'll end up with a smelly, slimy pile as it rots down.
> 
> Bag them and remove is the answer.


Hi,

Yeah I have don't worry, wanted to get a pic in before it got too dark


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## Kiashuma

Looks good. Watch what you use to feed it, some stuff is not for new lawns and can cause harm to them.


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## Titanium Htail

Yes some feed will burn the grass when new, a good watering at night rather than a shower, that consistent watering will stop shrinkage at the start.

Have fun, which end are the goalposts going, or a bunker a putting green !

John Tht.


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## Starbuck88

I put some starter fertiliser down before laying the turf, how long should that last?


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## Alfa male

Bit late to the party on this one but I too live in a new build and having same conversations with all the neighbours about rotting lawns due to crap drainage. 

The problem in the main is developers don't want to pay to tip the spoil (rubble from old buildings and hard landscaping) so the grind it to small pieces and blind the whole site with it to 'lose it'. This results in crap quality soil that doesn't drain and all out properties are affected despite buyin from a "premium house builder"

The solution a lot of neighbours are going for is land drainage in the form of filter drains to take excess water away. Some have cheekily tapped into the foul sewers as opposed to going down the route of a soak away. 

I'm getting a land drain fitted next winter when we are no longer using the back lawn.


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## Kiashuma

Starbuck88 said:


> I put some starter fertiliser down before laying the turf, how long should that last?


Not sure, did the packet say how long it lasts? I would keep it watered and leave it a bit if it was me.


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## realist

Usually lasts about 6-8 weeks:thumb:


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## Kiashuma

realist said:


> Usually lasts about 6-8 weeks:thumb:


Makes sense as i fed my lawn early april and in the last week or so its started to look a bit rubbish again :lol:


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## AdamC

Looks like your hard work is paying off. Looks a lot better now.


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## Del-GTi

How's it looking now?


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## gardian

I know this is an old thread but i was wondering how the garden got on, I have a drainage problem now and i was thinking of doing the same thing with the sharp sand and toil soil being rotivated into the existing clay i have, then i can turf it in the coming weeks


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## Starbuck88

gardian said:


> I know this is an old thread but i was wondering how the garden got on, I have a drainage problem now and i was thinking of doing the same thing with the sharp sand and toil soil being rotivated into the existing clay i have, then i can turf it in the coming weeks


Absolute  is what it looks like.

In order to improve the condition of soil, I think you need tons and tons of sharp sand and nice soil to rotavate in. The clay particles are so miniscule that it's nearly impossible to achieve the required results by doing what I did.

So at the moment...I'm stuck with re-seeding again just now so that it looks OK for summer, come winter it'll all get so soggy and most will die off again.

I've just been through the entire garden making holes with a Fork and re-seeded.

If you want to do the job properly...either install french drains or the totally best way...get a digger and remove as much clay soil as possible (a few feet deep) and buy in new soil AND put in french drains.

Myself...I think I'm going to deck a pathway to the shed off the existing decking I did last year (I have a thread on that somewhere) so that'll hide the part that gets no sun.

Then next year either put in more soil to bring up the level more and re-turf...or make a platform off the decking and lay fake grass on some drilled marine play and have NO real grass or soggy soil to contend with.

I'd go the whole hog myself knowing what I do now, but I can't get a mini digger in the garden so it's pretty much impossible to do for me. The sun is only out there for the morning and very early afternoon. I'm just going to make it 'tidy' and live with it. This is our first house and we're both wanting more already (south facing garden, a garage etc) so...pretty much given up on the hope of having a nice lawn.


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## slim_boy_fat

Starbuck88 said:


> ....If you want to do the job properly...either install french drains or the totally best way...get a digger and remove as much clay soil as possible (a few feet deep) and buy in new soil AND put in french drains.....


Or put down artificial turf , _it does _need occasional attention, but not as intensive as grass.


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## pxr5

I gave up with my front garden. Since growing a hedge along the side it hardly gets any sun, so is always wet and mossy. The last 3 years I have scarified it in the spring, then spent the rest of the year trying to regrow grass on it. So a couple of months ago we had it done with Indian Stone - looks fantastic and no more, scarifying, strimming, mowing, watering, feeding, dragging the bloomin' strimmer and mower around to the the front all the time. I do like grass, but it's hard work sometimes. ANd I still have the back garden to deal with.


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## gardian

Cheers for the advice. i am now swaying to artificial grass tbh. i have one section about 4x4 on one side of thr garden in front of the shed at the back, and this is constantly boggy. i spent all last year getting this in better shape by scarifying and back breaking hollow tine aerating and adding some sand and top soil into the holes. looked ok at the end of last summer and then went to wet mud as soon as the weather turned.
From what you say. i could spend all of the time and money this year doing what you did to be in the same position in the winter.

Food for thought and good luck for the house hunt when you do decide to move!
Ian


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## Starbuck88

slim_boy_fat said:


> Or put down artificial turf , _it does _need occasional attention, but not as intensive as grass.


Aye this is the route I'm more than likely going to pursue. I'd carry the decking on down the right hand side where it's always in shade to the shed. Then extend the decking frame out to the whole garden. Then marine ply it and lay some artificial turf on that. (would prob put down some sort of soft underlay too it)



pxr5 said:


> I gave up with my front garden. Since growing a hedge along the side it hardly gets any sun, so is always wet and mossy. The last 3 years I have scarified it in the spring, then spent the rest of the year trying to regrow grass on it. So a couple of months ago we had it done with Indian Stone - looks fantastic and no more, scarifying, strimming, mowing, watering, feeding, dragging the bloomin' strimmer and mower around to the the front all the time. I do like grass, but it's hard work sometimes. ANd I still have the back garden to deal with.


Tell me about it, I've had enough.



gardian said:


> Cheers for the advice. i am now swaying to artificial grass tbh. i have one section about 4x4 on one side of thr garden in front of the shed at the back, and this is constantly boggy. i spent all last year getting this in better shape by scarifying and back breaking hollow tine aerating and adding some sand and top soil into the holes. looked ok at the end of last summer and then went to wet mud as soon as the weather turned.
> From what you say. i could spend all of the time and money this year doing what you did to be in the same position in the winter.
> 
> Food for thought and good luck for the house hunt when you do decide to move!
> Ian


This is it. That turf in this thread went down in 2016. Beginning of 2017 it was pretty much destroyed in its entirety. Scarified, plugged, more soil, reseeded. Looked alright for summer...end of 2017 start of this year...absolutely stuffed again.

Just done the whole rigmarole again but a bit earlier this year hoping it'll look better this summer than last but...not holding my breath.


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## DrEskimo

Very good timing this thread as I’m just in the process of preparing my ground for some turf. I think the top soil is good (the grass/greenery grew very well before we came and ripped it all up doing the extension ), but I have dug down a little bit, and about 2/3foot down there is some heavy clay....

Just in the process of cultivating the soil and preparing to get turf delivered this weekend, but now you’ve sown seeds of doubt (sorry...) in my mind and maybe I should look at artificial...?

It’s about 17m2. Is the cost difference likely to be quite large?


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## percymon

DrEskimo said:


> Very good timing this thread as I'm just in the process of preparing my ground for some turf. I think the top soil is good (the grass/greenery grew very well before we came and ripped it all up doing the extension ), but I have dug down a little bit, and about 2/3foot down there is some heavy clay....
> 
> Just in the process of cultivating the soil and preparing to get turf delivered this weekend, but now you've sown seeds of doubt (sorry...) in my mind and maybe I should look at artificial...?
> 
> It's about 17m2. Is the cost difference likely to be quite large?


If you are still at the cultivating stage then i'd hire a large rotavator (one that on a second or third pass on dry ish soil with get you down 12"), then drop a few tonne bags of sharp sand and grit (or maybe pea gravel), and rotavate in.

Before laying the turf get a 0.5-1" layer of top soil on there to keep the small stones below surface.

Hopefully you will then have enough drainage in the subsoil above the clay layer to allow heavier rainfall to drain away (assuming your neighbours soil isn't packed solid !).

Artificial saves the mowing and the issues of feeding/weeding/reseeding but if it's sat on sodden soil above clay layer its likely to move around and take ages to dry out in spring


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## slim_boy_fat

Part of the trouble now is [and I'm not sure if this applies to the OP or not] developers now just dump *any* old construction site rubbish in to make 'garden' areas - saves on their Landfill Tax charges.


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## DrEskimo

percymon said:


> If you are still at the cultivating stage then i'd hire a large rotavator (one that on a second or third pass on dry ish soil with get you down 12"), then drop a few tonne bags of sharp sand and grit (or maybe pea gravel), and rotavate in.
> 
> Before laying the turf get a 0.5-1" layer of top soil on there to keep the small stones below surface.
> 
> Hopefully you will then have enough drainage in the subsoil above the clay layer to allow heavier rainfall to drain away (assuming your neighbours soil isn't packed solid !).
> 
> Artificial saves the mowing and the issues of feeding/weeding/reseeding but if it's sat on sodden soil above clay layer its likely to move around and take ages to dry out in spring


Cheers buddy...but unfortunately most of that won't be feasible...I don't have access for any heavy machinery, like diggers, so digging out masses more soil just isn't feasible.

So I dug down and worked out that it's 2-foot of good quality top soil, then clay. Bin at the property 2years (1year spent renovating) and have never had a problem with drainage?

I mean, this is how green it was, and the grass seemed to grow well..!










Here is the area now that I've cultivated it:










You think it will be alright to just put the turf on top of the soil as it is given the above...? As you can see, there is a retaining wall one side, and new patio the other side, so neighbours aren't an issue.

Cheers :thumb:


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## percymon

You must be getting water draining down from the neighbour on the higher ground, and after a wet winter it could be weeks before you see the last of their drain water. You don’t have a huge area to turf so it’s always worth trying, your lawn area looks pretty open to sunlight. The new trees will help in a year or so but keep the height and canopies under control to allow the lawn to be in sunlight as much as possible.

Some general fertiliser or bonemeal scattered now, days before turfing won’t hurt either.

If you have alkaline soil you could always add a little iron sulphate to bring the ph back towards neutral. Slightly acidic soils also help to ward off moss.


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## DrEskimo

percymon said:


> You must be getting water draining down from the neighbour on the higher ground, and after a wet winter it could be weeks before you see the last of their drain water. You don't have a huge area to turf so it's always worth trying, your lawn area looks pretty open to sunlight. The new trees will help in a year or so but keep the height and canopies under control to allow the lawn to be in sunlight as much as possible.
> 
> Some general fertiliser or bonemeal scattered now, days before turfing won't hurt either.
> 
> If you have alkaline soil you could always add a little iron sulphate to bring the ph back towards neutral. Slightly acidic soils also help to ward off moss.


Yea we're fortunate in that the garden is south facing, so the whole lawn will be in sunlight over the entire day. Those new trees thankfully won't shade any of it, but will certainly keep them in shape as they grow 

Thanks for your excellent advice. :thumb:


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## Starbuck88

With 2 feet and relatively small area...and in sunlight too....you're lucky! Turf it. Won't be a problem.


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## gardian

I am revising my plans again now. im thinking of putting slate down in the boggy part of the lawn and just housing the kids trampoline there to hide the problem, rather than fix it 
The rest of the lawn didnt have as poor drainage and still is ok from years work.

Cheers for the advice and i hope you get yours sorted the way you want it Starbuck


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## DrEskimo

Starbuck88 said:


> With 2 feet and relatively small area...and in sunlight too....you're lucky! Turf it. Won't be a problem.


Soon find out...!

I've made an order using this company based on reviews and recommendations:

http://www.georgedaviesturf.co.uk

Pick it up tomorrow  Shall I take bets on how many rolls I can fit in the Mini Cooper....

I know what my job will be on Sunday now though...an interior detail :lol:


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## gardian

I bought a cheap but really good Tiller from screwfix yesterday, 60 quid!! I have already used it to rotivate the good side of the lawn after it was cut to the lowest I could get it. i plan on doing a few passes to get this as fine as I can and to remove any large stones I find. Then going to get a good quality top soil raked over the top ready for the new turf. I think I'll need at least 2 tons of top soil so I will have a bad back getting that from the drive round to the back garden.

I plan to section off the gravel area where the trampoline (which is coming today and needs building) will be has anyone got any ideas of the best way to separate these two sections? I don't want the stones spilling onto the lawn if I can help it


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## slim_boy_fat

gardian said:


> ...I plan to section off the gravel area where the trampoline (which is coming today and needs building) will be has anyone got any ideas of the best way to separate these two sections? I don't want the stones spilling onto the lawn if I can help it


This stuff is *great *and available in a variety of depths. Not cheap but works well. Youmight still get the odd bit of gravel migrating, but only if folk drag a foot or catch with boots etc. Easy to just pick up the odd half dozen - but it contains the rest fine.

https://www.greenfingers.com/product_group.asp?dept_id=200332&pg_id=3187&ptm_source=google&ptm_medium=textAds&ptm_campaign=BrandNames_Everedge&campaign=18198860&adgroup=1826671460&content=213981703344&keyword=everedge&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs8nH2ZnJ2gIVQlXTCh3nIgZmEAAYASAAEgLlGfD_BwE


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