# Bilt hamber snowfoam dilution 1:4%



## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Hi members I would just like to find out what is the percentage on the 1:4% ratio, I'm estimating 500ml to snowfoam to water, its just polishedbliss is recommending 200ml to 800ml to water on their website on PA lance, I have a PA lance so this the lance I am going to use.


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## grunty-motor (Aug 11, 2016)

i am 600mm in my bottle and that is after measuring the thru rate - .


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## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

Trip tdi said:


> Hi members I would just like to find out what is the percentage on the 1:4% ratio, I'm estimating 500ml to snowfoam to water, its just polishedbliss is recommending 200ml to 800ml to water on their website on PA lance, I have a PA lance so this the lance I am going to use.


Sounds about right, but as above, measure your flow rate and you can calculate more accurately if you wish.

As you'll now, it's a very thin foam, which you don't need to over apply, so don't need to empty the bottle trying to cover the car with foam...


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## Coatings (Feb 10, 2020)

Trip tdi said:


> Hi members I would just like to find out what is the percentage on the 1:4% ratio, I'm estimating 500ml to snowfoam to water, its just polishedbliss is recommending 200ml to 800ml to water on their website on PA lance, I have a PA lance so this the lance I am going to use.


I've just been using in a IK 12 at 4/1. Questions about using foam cannon. You are just using 500ml of Autofoam undiluted in reservoir?

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## Woodsmoke (Feb 12, 2018)

literally coat and leave, should use more than like 200ml fromthe snow foam bottle


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## JoeyJoeJo (Jan 3, 2014)

1/4 in a sprayer is 25%

To get the 4% at panel, about 500ml in a litre bottle with 500ml of water, in an average domestic pw (lots and lots of variables) will deliver approx 4% out the end.

The lance sucks up the 1:1 (50%) mix in the bottle and dilutes it 10 to 15 times with the water from the pw, delivering the desired concentration to the car.

If you want accurate, best to measure your own setup and desired lance settings.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Coatings said:


> I've just been using in a IK 12 at 4/1. Questions about using foam cannon. You are just using 500ml of Autofoam undiluted in reservoir?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How did you confuse 4% with 4/1 or 1/4?

You do realise that 4% is a ratio of 4/100 or 2/50 or 1/25? Your 25% ratio is more than 6 times stronger than the 4% mix which is already extremely potent and can damage protection. At 6 times stronger it is way beyond recommended strengths and will eviscerate protection and probably damage plastics.

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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

roscopervis said:


> How did you confuse 4% with 4/1 or 1/4?
> 
> You do realise that 4% is a ratio of 4/100 or 2/50 or 1/25? Your 25% ratio is more than 6 times stronger than the 4% mix which is already extremely potent and can damage protection. At 6 times stronger it is way beyond recommended strengths and will eviscerate protection and probably damage plastics.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The reason his name is 'coatingS' is that he goes through one every week


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## Coatings (Feb 10, 2020)

roscopervis said:


> How did you confuse 4% with 4/1 or 1/4?
> 
> You do realise that 4% is a ratio of 4/100 or 2/50 or 1/25? Your 25% ratio is more than 6 times stronger than the 4% mix which is already extremely potent and can damage protection. At 6 times stronger it is way beyond recommended strengths and will eviscerate protection and probably damage plastics.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sorry seeing this now mis typed. 4oz to 100oz distilled. Pump Ik foam pro 12.

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## Coatings (Feb 10, 2020)

Does anyone have ratio for 4% pir from a MTM pf22?


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## JU5T1N (Dec 7, 2019)

roscopervis said:


> How did you confuse 4% with 4/1 or 1/4?
> 
> You do realise that 4% is a ratio of 4/100 or 2/50 or 1/25? Your 25% ratio is more than 6 times stronger than the 4% mix which is already extremely potent and can damage protection. At 6 times stronger it is way beyond recommended strengths and will eviscerate protection and probably damage plastics.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Now and again I use it at 1:10 in an ik foamer so 1:10 on the panels when the car is really dirty, what effect it has on the lsp depends on the lsp theres no caustic or harsh chemicals in auto-foam so it won't damage plastics or anything. You can safely go above 4% if you want more cleaning power or below 4% if you want less cleaning power.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Coatings said:


> Does anyone have ratio for 4% pir from a MTM pf22?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You'll get approximations but there is really no better approach than to calculate the total amount of water taken to empty a foam lance bottle then find 4% of that 

To speed up the process measure to half and double the end result...


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

It depends on your water pressure from the hose somewhat, as well as the litres per hour of the pressure washer along with the Lance. You really should do the water exercise, it isn’t hard and you’ll get a good maths reminder.


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## bluechimp (Dec 21, 2017)

Not this again.


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## gatecrasher3 (Jul 21, 2006)

Hmmm reading this makes me think I might have been diluting snow foams wrong every time I have used them.

Without opening a can of worms is there a specific method that should be used?

Preferably a dumbed down simple one :lol:


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## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

gatecrasher3 said:


> Hmmm reading this makes me think I might have been diluting snow foams wrong every time I have used them.
> 
> Without opening a can of worms is there a specific method that should be used?
> 
> Preferably a dumbed down simple one :lol:


BH is generally the only one that specifies a PIR, a lot of other products are put a specific amount into your bottle and top up - eg say 100ml to 900ml, whereas BH take different PW machines and lances / guns into account and you measure your flow rate, to have an end result of PIR of 4%...


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## gatecrasher3 (Jul 21, 2006)

Andyblue said:


> BH is generally the only one that specifies a PIR, a lot of other products are put a specific amount into your bottle and top up - eg say 100ml to 900ml, whereas BH take different PW machines and lances / guns into account and you measure your flow rate, to have an end result of PIR of 4%...


Thanks for clarifying. That is much appreciated :thumb:


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## SuperchargedLlama (Apr 25, 2008)

The maths was about right tbh, roughly 50/50 seems to get you about 4% PIR in nearly every consumer PW.


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## sidewalkdances (Apr 19, 2007)

Mother-Goose said:


> The maths was about right tbh, roughly 50/50 seems to get you about 4% PIR in nearly every consumer PW.


Thats good to know for rule of thumb until I can be bothered to measure it out.

Forgive me if maths are wrong but would it be:

250ml product to 750ml water - 2% PIR - light soiling
375ml to 625ml - 3% PIR moderate soiling. 
500ml to 500ml - 4% PIR - heavier soiling

That seems like a good way of working it out for most people.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

1% PIR is plenty for light soiling, especially on a well protected car so 125ml to 875ml based on your example.


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## MrMatt (Apr 15, 2011)

Mother-Goose said:


> The maths was about right tbh, roughly 50/50 seems to get you about 4% PIR in nearly every consumer PW.


As a slight deviation from this I need neat solution in the bottle with my karcher K2 and in2detailing foam lance to get 4% with a bit of variation depending on the concentration setting on the lance.


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## Christian6984 (Dec 20, 2007)

gatecrasher3 said:


> Hmmm reading this makes me think I might have been diluting snow foams wrong every time I have used them.
> 
> Without opening a can of worms is there a specific method that should be used?
> 
> Preferably a dumbed down simple one :lol:


Its easy to work out

Fill your lance with exactly 1L of water. Set the foam adjuster to the max or where you would normally have it for snowfoam.

Get a bucket (preferably one with markers for litres on it) and run the PW until the lance is empty. See how much water you have in the bucket. For example mine was 9 Litres or 9000ml.

take the 9000 and times it by 0.04 (9000x0.04= 360ml) this means I need 360ml of Auto Foam and 1000-360= 640ml of Water

360ml : 640ml (AF:Water) for a 4% PIR


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

This should be an exam question as clearly it makes people struggle with maths.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Also seems to hamper ones ability to use the search function 

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## Itstony (Jan 19, 2018)

*Brian1612*
That message is always ignored. Search facility is the best route to get much more information and quickly than asking in a thread. If I gave up responding, sure many others have too.

Never amazes me the amount of times its been asked and you have still had to explain it.:doublesho


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

Why go anywhere else other than the manufacturer? http://www.bilthamber.com/media/downloads/auto-foam.pdf

_"To correctly calculate the required quantity of auto-foam to use in a pressure washer reservoir or foam lance bottle;
For virtually touchless cleaning 4% is needed at the panel not in the detergent bottle or reservoir. To obtain this fill up the detergent bottle or reservoir. Take a large container and discharge the lance into this until the detergent bottle is empty of water. Measure the total amount of water collected, and multiply this number by 0.04. Fill the detergent bottle or reservoir with the calculated amount, and top it up to full with water. This method will create the correct concentration of auto-foam discharging from the lance.
auto-foam can be applied as an effective prewash by simply spraying a dilute solution from a garden pump sprayer. Do not expect foam when applied in this way, the foam itself is not a necessary part of the cleaning process. Always allow the product to remain on the surface for a few minutes before rinsing - the longer the dwell time the better."_


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## Coatings (Feb 10, 2020)

So don’t really have a way to measure PIR wthout buying something.

Wondering if anyone has a Ryobi pressure washer (mine is 1.2 gallons per min GPM) 

Not sure how you measure flow rate across the pond so did not do conversion.

I’m using it with a MtM pf22. If anyone using a similar set up could you let me know what amount of AF you are adding to the bottle


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

You don’t have a bucket of a known volume?


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## Coatings (Feb 10, 2020)

roscopervis said:


> You don't have a bucket of a known volume?


I have a five gallon but it doesn't have dilution marks so i'd be just guessing.

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## 20vKarlos (Aug 8, 2009)

Coatings said:


> I have a five gallon but it doesn't have dilution marks so i'd be just guessing.


Do you not have a bottle or jug?

Fill your foam Lance with 1000ml of water. Use your pressure washer at your desired pressure (if it's variable) set your foam Lance to the desired spray rate, and spray it all into the bucket until your foam Lance bottle is empty, then use the foam Lance bottle (which has 1000ml capacity) or a jug to remove all of the water from the bucket and you'll have your answer.


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## broncoupe (Aug 19, 2010)

Christian6984 said:


> Its easy to work out
> 
> Fill your lance with exactly 1L of water. Set the foam adjuster to the max or where you would normally have it for snowfoam.
> 
> ...


Mate that's too simple throw a few extra 00s in just to keep people happy
BH want best results most companies are too hung up on value for money being the cheapest 
And who's to blame for that ?
Personally just want a product that works 
Don't know about other members but i throw product away every month that has disappointed
Also when is someone gonna bring out a wheel spoke brush with 3-4 inch bristles 
cheers


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## Itstony (Jan 19, 2018)

Coatings said:


> Does anyone have ratio for 4% pir from a MTM pf22?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


if you used the search facility you will see this topic is plastered all over it many times. Answered many times because the same question is asked frequently.
Quickest way to get answers to what you need. In general people get tired of answering it tbh. Best advice you will get today, a few have made excellent tutorials to explain the basic maths, which may not be so clear for everyone. Hope this helps :thumb:


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## Coatings (Feb 10, 2020)

Itstony said:


> if you used the search facility you will see this topic is plastered all over it many times. Answered many times because the same question is asked frequently.
> Quickest way to get answers to what you need. In general people get tired of answering it tbh. Best advice you will get today, a few have made excellent tutorials to explain the basic maths, which may not be so clear for everyone. Hope this helps :thumb:


I found several tutorial and found a dilution that works. Just if someone had used similar set up would be easier......

Use a little common sense deductive reasoning and maybe you know i did search but couldn't find the answer I was looking for so hence my post. I posted in a existing thread instead of starting a new one so obviously I know how the search function works maybe?

Not helpful at all sir....

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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Coatings said:


> I found several tutorial and found a dilution that works. Just if someone had used similar set up would be easier......
> 
> Use a little common sense deductive reasoning and maybe you know i did search but couldn't find the answer I was looking for so hence my post. I posted in a existing thread instead of starting a new one so obviously I know how the search function works maybe?
> 
> ...


You might have the same Lance, but if your orifice is different, slightly clogged or your mains water supply isn't providing the same amount of water, it throws it off so if you really want to know, for you, do the exercise.


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## eccles291 (Jul 13, 2021)

Jumping in on this thread to avoid starting yet another one on foam use & lances. Hope that's okay. 

I've used the BH method to work out my dilution rates but I've hit a snag.

I have a cheapo PW from Aldi that has a cleaning agent bottle which only has a 400ml capacity. I filled it to the top with clean water and used the PW until it emptied the contents of the 400ml bottle into a bucket. (There's no variable pressure/flow rate on the lance with the bottle fitted). Total water dispensed was 17.5L so, doing the maths (17,500 x 0.04) gives me 700ml.

Instructions then say, "_Fill the detergent bottle or reservoir with the calculated amount, and top it up to full with water._". However, with a bottle capacity of only 400ml what do I do?


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Coatings said:


> I found several tutorial and found a dilution that works. Just if someone had used similar set up would be easier......
> 
> Use a little common sense deductive reasoning and maybe you know i did search but couldn't find the answer I was looking for so hence my post. I posted in a existing thread instead of starting a new one so obviously I know how the search function works maybe?
> 
> ...


It's reasonably easy to work out. Basically, you need to see how much water your lance puts out, in order to empty the bottle (solution). That way, if your bottle capacity for example is 1 litre, and the lance puts out 10 litres of water by the time the bottle empties, you'll know that your lance dilutes what's in the bottle at a ratio of 10:1 (Ish). So if Bilt Hamber requires 4%, you'll have to put a 40% mix in the lance bottle (as this will be diluted 10 fold by the lance itself)

So, fill the solution bottle with water, attach it to the lance, and spray into a bucket, so you can measure how much water is coming out the end of the lance into the bucket. Stop spraying as soon as the lance bottle is empty, and see how much water in total you've sprayed. Divide the total amount of water by the size of the bottle, and you'll know by how much your lance dilutes the solution.

In reality though, I generally put about an inch of product in the bottom of the bottle, and adjust the mix until I get a consistency I'm happy with. Not too thick, and not too runny.

Hope this has helped.

Cooks

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## kosymodo (Jun 3, 2021)

eccles291 said:


> Jumping in on this thread to avoid starting yet another one on foam use & lances. Hope that's okay.
> 
> I've used the BH method to work out my dilution rates but I've hit a snag.
> 
> ...


@eccles291 - following Cookies' logic, your lance is diluting at a ratio of 43.75:1. Therefore, to get to the 4% PIR, you're correct in saying you'd need 700ml of BH. Quite rightly you say that you can't cram 700ml into a 400ml bottle. Consequently, you're never gonna reach 4% PIR using that lance 

You could get 2% PIR by using a 87.5% mix in the bottle (350ml BH and 50ml water). That's the best you're gonna get.

One final thought is that if you can find a 1ltr bottle with the same thread, you could perhaps use that in place of the 400ml bottle?


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## eccles291 (Jul 13, 2021)

kosymodo said:


> @eccles291 - following Cookies' logic, your lance is diluting at a ratio of 43.75:1. Therefore, to get to the 4% PIR, you're correct in saying you'd need 700ml of BH. Quite rightly you say that you can't cram 700ml into a 400ml bottle. Consequently, you're never gonna reach 4% PIR using that lance


Thanks very much for this. It's reassuring to see that my maths and subsequent thinking were correct. (I got 43.75:1 too  )



kosymodo said:


> You could get 2% PIR by using a 87.5% mix in the bottle (350ml BH and 50ml water). That's the best you're gonna get.


I might give that a go as the car isn't utterly filthy with the weather not being too crappy at the moment.



kosymodo said:


> One final thought is that if you can find a 1ltr bottle with the same thread, you could perhaps use that in place of the 400ml bottle?


I did wonder if that was possible. I'll have a look around.

Thanks again.


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## eccles291 (Jul 13, 2021)

BTW I *would* hit the '_Thank You_' button on helpful people's posts but it appears I don't have that option.  Am I missing something? Or is it an addition to your forum privileges once you hit a certain number of posts?


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

The bottle that comes with the pressure washer isn’t that great. It will spew a mix of solution over the car, but it will do it wastefully. Until you got an actual snowfoam Lance, you’d be much better off getting a cheap pump sprayer and using that to apply Autofoam at your desired concentration. Much more efficient and will use less product. You’d need 80ml of Autofoam for a 2 litre bottle at 4%, but like you say, it often doesn’t need to be that strong.


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## 20vKarlos (Aug 8, 2009)

eccles291 said:


> BTW I *would* hit the '_Thank You_' button on helpful people's posts but it appears I don't have that option.  Am I missing something? Or is it an addition to your forum privileges once you hit a certain number of posts?


The Thank you button will come with more posts mate. :thumb:


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## eccles291 (Jul 13, 2021)

roscopervis said:


> The bottle that comes with the pressure washer isn't that great. It will spew a mix of solution over the car, but it will do it wastefully. Until you got an actual snowfoam Lance, you'd be much better off getting a cheap pump sprayer and using that to apply Autofoam at your desired concentration. Much more efficient and will use less product. You'd need 80ml of Autofoam for a 2 litre bottle at 4%, but like you say, it often doesn't need to be that strong.


Yeah, I think that might be the better route to go. Thanks. :thumb:


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## eccles291 (Jul 13, 2021)

20vKarlos said:


> The Thank you button will come with more posts mate. :thumb:


I thought as much.  :thumb:


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