# Just been remapped



## Radlin (Aug 18, 2011)

Just been remapped and what a difference. Have a nice little box also which allows me to flash my 3 different maps bing stock, Economy and the fun one Stage 3. Was running a Spider tuning box before which was doing a good job -

Stock 220bhp / 376lbsft torque
With Spider 275bhp / 422lbsft torque
Stage 3 tune 303bhp / 508lbsft torque (with standard intercooler)

Upgraded Intercooler next week should give a tad more bhp and I'm hoping around 60-80 more lbsft torque.

So this almost 2 ton oil burner really does shift now


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

How can it be stage 3 tuning without all the other modifications? Remaps alone are stage 1.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Radlin said:


> Just been remapped and what a difference. Have a nice little box also which allows me to flash my 3 different maps bing stock, Economy and the fun one Stage 3. Was running a Spider tuning box before which was doing a good job -
> 
> Stock 220bhp / 376lbsft torque
> With Spider 275bhp / 422lbsft torque
> ...


EEK!! not for long at those BHP and FT/lb increases wont be long till it goes "pop"


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Grizzle said:


> EEK!! not for long at those BHP and FT/lb increases wont be long till it goes "pop"


Agree with that. Who did the remap? Was it done on a dyno? Your cylinder pressures and temperatures will be so much higher than standard now.


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

hoikey said:


> Agree with that. Who did the remap? Was it done on a dyno? Your cylinder pressures and temperatures will be so much higher than standard now.


With the hoikmesiter & grizz on this, if it's a BMW mate once any engine part goes bang you're in for some serous expenses, have you uprated drive shafts, pistons, rods, bearings etc...etc., not to mention the breaks being over worked, the disk size difference on a BMW 320D & 330D is big. Have you uprated your breaks?


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Exactly. If it's a stage 3 tune, it needs the rest of the stage 3 mods doing!!


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## Radlin (Aug 18, 2011)

No its all based on tons of research and yes its a stage 3. The 'norm' for for stage 1 is 270hp, stage 2 298hp and the stage 3 308'ish. Above stage 2 an upgraded intercooler is required which I'm fitting this week, and to get a tad more a hybrid turbo is needed, but thats optional.

Our diesel engines are Merc as is the Tran's and as a club we have professional research and development confirming they can be tweaked by allot, in addition to cars running maps for long periods of time to no ill effect.

The other thing you have to remember is that ALL cars are released from the manufacturers effectively detuned to cope with varying/poor fuel qualities and oils of other countries. 

Yes I agree, any upping performance if done excesively could harm reliability, but again referring to research our 300's are well capable of Stage 3's which is fairly common in our community.

Another thing to remember is they are in actuality much safer (if done properly) than tuning boxes/chips which just force in more fuel and can stress the fuel rail. Mapping adjusts many aspects of the ECU software including fuelling, turbo boost etc.etc.

One thing that has not been mentioned here is the Exhaust system temperature, which is one of the limiting factors to tuning, otherwise they melt from the rear forwards. Again this was monitored and is well within limits.

Mine has been done well within well known acceptable limits, even to the degree of checking emissions which as some may know is illegal for a company to map a car that then produces higher emissions than is stated stock. If they are higher than those set by the manufacturers you can fail an MOT.

It is also obvious that you cannot run the high performance aspect of the tune for any length of time on our roads anyway, at the very best a quick spirt down a motorway sliproad, overtakning etc, so the length of time its reaching that performance is for a very short time. 

I accept the point about the breaks, the calipers/disc kit can be upgraded and is being considered but I shall be upgrading pads to EBC Yellows or Reds in the meantime.

I accept your views guys, but believe me it wasn't done in a shed up the road by a 14 year old with a laptop and I certainly wouldn't consider anything if it had any potential to cause harm.

And yes it was done on a dyno, with all readings being monitored.


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## centenary (Sep 5, 2010)

Radlin said:


> The other thing you have to remember is that ALL cars are *released from the manufacturers effectively detuned to cope with varying/poor fuel qualities and oils of other countries. *


No they are not. The cars are set up for optimum conditions in the market they are for. So for example, if you buy a BMW in Europe, it is set up at manufacture to meet european emissions, european grade fuel, european atmospheric density etc.

If you buy a BMW in Patagonia, the car wont be set up for european emissions, european fuel grade and air density etc, etc. It will be set up for localised conditions.

I asked this question of BMW in Germany when I imported the E46. BMW told me cars in northern Europe are general set up the same for fuel and air density etc and set up differently for local markets around the world which are different to Europe.


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## Radlin (Aug 18, 2011)

Even within Europe grades of fuel/cetane/octane IS different. You also have environmental differences too even to cars exported to Europe eg the climate/temperature/humidity of say Spain is very different from that of say Norway, Sweden etc. And as you say that BMW cars are 'generally set up for Nothern Europe fuel and air density etc' this means their original maps/software are equally generally setup to cope with wide ranging situations and thus able to cope with low quality fuels etc, for example those in Poland.


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

Awesome car btw, looked at getting one of these for my Dad company when he sold the BMW but went for the Dodge Nitro instead and but test drove one of these.

Unless you buy a Top End car each car has a generic Map Flashed onto it which is not best practice as every engine is very slightly different so by mapping a car it normally will make the car better in a number of ways. Not only does it add power and torque it will normally run smoother, better fuel economy, etc.

This is why the Nissan GTR R35 has a a different personised map for every car that leaves the factory as they except every engine is slightly different.

Some engines are massively detuned from the factory these days just to make a power difference between their model range so you cant just say because his 300 has 50% more power that it will burn out faster. Take new Mini for example, both the cooper and One run exactly the same engine but the One is just a detuned version.

Just my 2c worth


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## Radlin (Aug 18, 2011)

Thank you Bod42, EXACTLY what I was trying to say!!! Our stock 300's have a dreadful turbo lag from low speeds, almost as if a politician is running the software and having to debate with colleagues as to whether you can have any power. A tuning box sorts that, but the map (whichever stage) absolutely eliminates that so the car is far more drivable.

I like the Nitro allot, my brother in law is tempted, what do you reckon of it?

What I think people are doing is treating petrol car mapping too closely to diesels. Diesel can handle far, far more than Petrols. I agree go to far over the top and you WILL have problems but a professional company who know what they're doing insure their work (as mine is) so all work (and harm caused by their work) is insured.

Varients of our 3ltr MB diesel engines also run some MB Sprinters, so they're powering much heavier vehicles even forgetting there 1500kg loading capacity.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

yeh they power the sprinters in its current form not a highly tuned state


Personal opinion and dont take this the wrong way your living in dream land.


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## mishy (Jan 26, 2011)

Nice unlock Radlin, better than average returns. 

Dunno why remapping still lives under a cloud of blackmagic/voodoo/taboo.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

http://www.cartuningtips.com/140-car-tuning-stages

Can I just point out the above with regards to a "stage 3" remap.

Remapping a car is a stage 1 mod, people call the maps stage 1,2,3 because they can give you a little increase, a medium increase or a big increase in power. Doesnt mean they are different stage mods, just how much they ramp the boost and fuel up by. When you fit your intercooler then you will be at stage 2, although the car will then run differently and will need mapping again, if done properly, as your engines parameters will have changed.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

mishy said:


> Nice unlock Radlin, better than average returns.
> 
> Dunno why remapping still lives under a cloud of blackmagic/voodoo/taboo.


Not sure who your getting at as calling it black magic :S. Anyone can remap a car with the right software, not everyone can do it right


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Let's try and keep it on topic at least guys lol


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## mishy (Jan 26, 2011)

mapping stages is more marketing/pricing 

Stage1 is generally a software upgrade of an OEM car and will generally be the same map rolled out to every car will very little R&D after the first test cars. 
stage 2 and 3 requiring more time and effort given the uniqueness of the car and therefore labour in order to customize the map e.g. multiple rolling roads+changing the ECU. but a stage 3 can mean whatever they want it to be and isnt a industry standard.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

mishy said:


> mapping stages is more marketing/pricing
> 
> Stage1 is generally a software upgrade of an OEM car and will generally be the same map rolled out to every car will very little R&D after the first test cars.
> stage 2 and 3 requiring more time and effort given the uniqueness of the car and therefore labour in order to customize the map e.g. multiple rolling roads+changing the ECU.


That's basically what I said


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Radlin said:


> Thanks Mishy,
> 
> Lack of specialist knowledge of particular vehicles comes to mind i.e. mine was properly researched and tested by a professional outfit, plus slamming by ill informed and arseh0le comments from 'jokers' like grizzle who probably thinks an ECU is a large bird roaming Australia.


He might, but I deal with ecu's on a daily basis


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## mishy (Jan 26, 2011)

Sorry Hoikey, agreeing not arguing with you (as I see the topic).


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## Radlin (Aug 18, 2011)

I agree with what you say hoikey... and I'm sure he'll be back to slag again once he's checked wikipedia about what an ECU is as, as I say I'm sure he thinks its something native to Australia.

For ours there are 3 stages - The first is a simple tweak of some of the 60 odd parts of the maps that run ours. This doesn't require any further mod's. Stage 2 requires the intercooler to reach the maximum performance figures of the tune, and stage 3 requires the prior, plus a hybrid turbo to reach the tunes maximum figures. Although min eis mapped to stage 3 its currently falling around 7 hp short and around 60ftlbs torque of a similar car with the intercooler upgrade, which should be reached with further tweaking on Thursday. The top stage 3 figures won't be reached until a hybrid turbo and as you say further tweaking.

Essentially though you can map a car to any stage but it may not reach the full potential of the map without the mods and slight tweaks to the map. Mine mapped to 3is producing higher figures than the stage 2 which is around 293hp & 480 odd lbsft torque


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

I'm still non the wiser how you Merc engine running 218bhp and 376 lb·ft can run 303hp with just a remap, 80hp increase on stock internals. 

My Octavia is running 263hp it was on the rolling road at 220 standard i was told around 40-50hp maximum gain from shark performance using my STS box, when it made 263 i was well chuffed and that's stage 1, 

stage 2 is full turbo back exhaust downpipe and sports cat (already have cat back which makes no difference but half way there in terms of stage 2) and something like an evoms intake and stage 2 software should see 280hp

Stage 3 is S3 intercooler and bigger fuel pump for near 300hp anything more requires a bigger turbo, injectors, clutch and a heap of cash.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Radlin said:


> I agree with what you say hoikey... and I'm sure he'll be back to slag again once he's checked wikipedia about what an ECU is as, as I say I'm sure he thinks its something native to Australia.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Radlin said:


> I agree with what you say hoikey... and I'm sure he'll be back to slag again once he's checked wikipedia about what an ECU is as, as I say I'm sure he thinks its something native to Australia.
> 
> For ours there are 3 stages - The first is a simple tweak of some of the 60 odd parts of the maps that run ours. This doesn't require any further mod's. Stage 2 requires the intercooler to reach the maximum performance figures of the tune, and stage 3 requires the prior, plus a hybrid turbo to reach the tunes maximum figures. Although min eis mapped to stage 3 its currently falling around 7 hp short and around 60ftlbs torque of a similar car with the intercooler upgrade, which should be reached with further tweaking on Thursday. The top stage 3 figures won't be reached until a hybrid turbo and as you say further tweaking.
> 
> Essentially though you can map a car to any stage but it may not reach the full potential of the map without the mods and slight tweaks to the map. Mine mapped to 3is producing higher figures than the stage 2 which is around 293hp & 480 odd lbsft torque


Disagree with that. Stage 2 mods are things like exhausts, intakes, intercoolers etc... Twinned with a map

Stage 3 involves the above plus bigger injectors, updated fuel pump, forged internals, thicker headgaskets etc....

You can't have a map, an intercooler and a turbo and say its a stage 3 modified car.
I'm also suprised the fuel pump and injectors can cope with that much more than standard power, what's the duty cycle on the injectors at the min?


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## mishy (Jan 26, 2011)

Well i think we're losing track of Radlins post. hes got his car ECU customized and is very happy with hefty improvement of speed. 
All engines differ and there unlocked potential either OEM or with bits added differ.
All prices/names/product indicating a stage differ so i dunno what the debate is about, hes got an apparently faster car. 
Lets not start talking about rollingroads being inaccurate


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Also what's the boost standard and after the map? The compression ratio will have gone up a lot.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

mishy said:


> Well i think we're losing track of Radlins post. hes got his car ECU customized and is very happy with hefty improvement of speed.
> All engines differ and there unlocked potential either OEM or with bits added differ.
> All prices/names/product indicating a stage differ so i dunno what the debate is about, hes got an apparently faster car.
> Lets not start talking about rollingroads being inaccurate


I'm just interested in the technical aspects of his map


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## Jordan (Dec 22, 2008)

"stages" dont exist


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## Radlin (Aug 18, 2011)

Being trying to get my pdf dyno results doc small enough to post as an attachments but the limit for a pdf is only 19kb's and this is 30 odd. If anyone wants a copy no prob's, just PM me your Email address.


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## *cossiedave* (Dec 5, 2010)

what i look for is more mpg and a little more jizzz , figures mean nothing , if some1 has doubt in you take then take them out the road!!


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## Radlin (Aug 18, 2011)

hoikey said:


> Disagree with that. Stage 2 mods are things like exhausts, intakes, intercoolers etc... Twinned with a map
> 
> Stage 3 involves the above plus bigger injectors, updated fuel pump, forged internals, thicker headgaskets etc....
> 
> ...


Hoikey, as far as I'm aware and was told by two highly respected specialist tuners of our cars it is not necessary to progress stage 1 to 2 to 3 etc. and stages can be bypassed as long as temperatures/mechanics/boost etc can be handled and are within the realms of what the car will take without reducing reliability. As I've stated I've had the mapping of a stage 3, but without my intercooler upgrade am slightly shy of figures of a friends car with it fitted and he is a tad short of known achievable stage 3 figures with the hybrid turbo. The figures I stated at the beginning of the thread are dyno varyfied and I'm done debating the matter.

Since most just want to doubt... I have the dyno figures if anyone wants them (PM me your Email) or if anyone wants to caugh up the cost and fuel of going to a third party dyno I'd be happy to oblige.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

I just don't get why a reputable tuned would map a car as though it had a hybrid turbo and an intercooler sun it hasn't. A hybrid turbo works differently to a normal one, so how can the map be the same


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## ivor (Sep 24, 2008)

Nice result for the car and your happy with it and that's all that matters.

Personally about this whole stage 1,2,3 to me it is more than just changing the map, I run all the things already mentioned i.e fuel pump,turbo,injectors,aftermarket ecu etc etc but with out changing the suspension and brakes and removing some of the weight from a car i would not consider it to be stage 3.

I only think of mine as a stage 2 as it's still usable everyday,I do know of some stage 3 cars that are used daily but they are a ***** in traffic due to high lift cams and racing clutch/flywheel.

As you have already said diesel is different to petrol in that you are already running high compression to get the fuel to combust , undoubtedly there has been a lot of research carried out and verified but if it's all by one tuner I would be Dubious as I've known people who swear by a tuner but only because they get discounted rates free repairs etc etc


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

Radlin said:


> Thank you Bod42, EXACTLY what I was trying to say!!! Our stock 300's have a dreadful turbo lag from low speeds, almost as if a politician is running the software and having to debate with colleagues as to whether you can have any power. A tuning box sorts that, but the map (whichever stage) absolutely eliminates that so the car is far more drivable.
> 
> I like the Nitro allot, my brother in law is tempted, what do you reckon of it?QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

Not trying to add fuel to what could start a fire but I've always thought you went through the stages, 1 to 2 to 3.

Stage 1 - being a simple map, changing you car's ecu and unlocking the power your car can give on standard parts.

Stage 2 - adding/changing parts to take your car that little bit further, be that intercoolers, turbo, supercharger etc. Then remapping to suit the modifications you've added. Aswel as this i'd class coilovers, big brakes as taking it up to stage 2, but stage 2 set-ups are very rarely talked about it's always stage 2 engine's.

Stage 3 - A stage 3 engine imo is basically making the car a handful, harsh clutch, lumpy idle, road legalaites usualy out of the window, but for maximum power. A stage 3 car, poly window's, stripped out and caged etc etc.

Also your saying how your car is running stage 3 but a few bhp down of what another stage 3 made, this is another opinion of mine, but not all car's will reach the same figure with the same mod's, they will all act different.

Imo the way you've described yor car, at the minute you have a aggressive map - stage 1, an aggressive stage 1 but stage 1 non the less.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

ant_s said:


> Not trying to add fuel to what could start a fire but I've always thought you went through the stages, 1 to 2 to 3.
> 
> Stage 1 - being a simple map, changing you car's ecu and unlocking the power your car can give on standard parts.
> 
> ...


Glad someone else can see it. :thumb:


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## dubber (Oct 2, 2011)

Correct me if i am wrong but, i am sure you cant gain bhp from a larger intercooler. I am sure it's just all about keeping colder air


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Grizzle said:


> I'm still non the wiser how you Merc engine running 218bhp and 376 lb·ft can run 303hp with just a remap, 80hp increase on stock internals.


I don't know much about current remaps and tuning as it's been a while since I dabbled.

But a good example would be the RS6 C6, 2 of my customers have an increase of 200 bhp from a remap and cat back exhaust, no engine internal upgrades.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Gleammachine said:


> I don't know much about current remaps and tuning as it's been a while since I dabbled.
> 
> But a good example would be the RS6 C6, 2 of my customers have an increase of 200 bhp from a remap and cat back exhaust, no engine internal upgrades.


200hp? MRC are only quoting 70hp increase thats stage 1


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

dubber said:


> Correct me if i am wrong but, i am sure you cant gain bhp from a larger intercooler. I am sure it's just all about keeping colder air


Depending on the mods done but i have seen an extra 20hp on a dyno from a Forge Twintercooler.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Gleammachine said:


> I don't know much about current remaps and tuning as it's been a while since I dabbled.
> 
> But a good example would be the RS6 C6, 2 of my customers have an increase of 200 bhp from a remap and cat back exhaust, no engine internal upgrades.


Actually Rob MTM are giving amazing figures.

http://www.mtm-online.de/en/Audi/RS...0-hp-Quattro?FZID=RS6C6426Q&KIT=m1rs6580702qx

:doublesho 702hp!


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Grizzle said:


> Actually Rob MTM are giving amazing figures.
> 
> http://www.mtm-online.de/en/Audi/RS...0-hp-Quattro?FZID=RS6C6426Q&KIT=m1rs6580702qx
> 
> :doublesho 702hp!


This one is definately MRC mapped, some high flow filters and a Miltek, last went out with him at 721bhp, think it is now 780bhp.

Quick vid showing how 70 mph looks fast behind a camera..


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## A210 AMG (Nov 8, 2008)

Hello


I have a merc and there are two engines for my model an IL6 which is an in line 3.2 litre CDI that I have and also a V6 which is 3.0 litre and probably in the OP's car?

I have whats called a Brabus D6 box on mine and the BHP goes up to around 255 and a bucket load of torque. With the V6 the D6 brabus box takes this to over 270 bhp.

Brabus kit isn't cheap but its tested and you know that it ok.

My car for such a large bus goes very well, supprised a Golf R not long ago  

I would think 300 bhp or more your looking at a lot of money and then possibly into the un known regarding how long your engine will last


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Healthy numbers - you must see a good difference driving it! As long as the limits of the car are understood there is little danger to the car. :thumb:



Grizzle said:


> I'm still non the wiser how you Merc engine running 218bhp and 376 lb·ft can run 303hp with just a remap, 80hp increase on stock internals.
> 
> My Octavia is running 263hp it was on the rolling road at 220 standard i was told around 40-50hp maximum gain from shark performance using my STS box, when it made 263 i was well chuffed and that's stage 1,


Whats the relevance of a max 40-50bhp on a VAG got to do with a 300? 40-50 in a VAG may equal 80bhp in a 300....i don't see the issue?



hoikey said:


> Also what's the boost standard and after the map? The compression ratio will have gone up a lot.


Compression ration will not have changed - it's still standard internals!



dubber said:


> Correct me if i am wrong but, i am sure you cant gain bhp from a larger intercooler. I am sure it's just all about keeping colder air


Intercoolers serve a purpose - that's why manufactures pay and install them in their cars. On remapping the compression side of the turbo will be pushing out a lot more air and it will be hotter, the intercoolers job is to cool the air. An aftermarket intercooler can be larger to cool the air further and/or hi-flow to reduce the pressure drop across the core. Colder/freer flowing air is has more Oxygen (and N) per unit volume, if you can get more air into a cylinder you then add more fuel which maintains the A/F ratio and you end up with more more power.

However I'm very surprised you expect such an increase in torque - intercoolers are generally supporting modifications rather than making a big increase in number, especially down around 300bhp - the stock one must be really....rubbish?


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Your right bero, the ratio won't have changed, my mistake. The cylinder pressures will be up though running more boost which is what I meant.


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## Radlin (Aug 18, 2011)

I now have the larger intercooler (about 3-4 times the size) and this alone gave me an addtional 28ftlbs torque, plus 8hp this was though after sevral runs since we were testing other maps and by the time the last run was done the room, engine etc were warm which I understand can be detrimental to dyno'ng. Its definately allowing the turbo to breath easier.

The figures I published earlier in the thread were figures at the wheel with the up/down runs to take into account drag/resistance/friction etc. Flywheel horsepower is 331hp. 

The tolerances with regards cylinder pressure, turbo boost and exhaust temperature are all within acceptable limits.

I think allot of you guys are comparing to closely this v6 diesel lump to a 4 cyl petrol, which as is widely know cannot take the same map upgrades without serious mechanical upgrades. They are much stonger engines than petrol engines, take the example of diesel mileage and petrol engined mileage. It wouldn't be unusual for a diesel to easily clock 300k miles, whereas petrol cars struggle to reach 200k (I know there are exceptions and many reasons as to why, but many will accept this as a relevant comment)


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

What are your cylinder pressures?


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## MK1Campaign (Mar 27, 2007)

VAG 2.0TFSI (S3 version) map up to 370bhp with the right exhaust and fuel pump. This is on the standard K04 turbo and standard internals. 
Not sure why so many people are questioning?


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## Radlin (Aug 18, 2011)

will let you know since they're not on the dyno report I have but were reading through the OBD/ECU within our 'secret 300c display' (usually dealer only accessible) ECU readings which measure everything. I should add also the car is extremely sensitive to tolerances and will immediately put the car into 'sulk mode' if things like fuel rail/injector pressure, boost pressure etc etc etc are not within where they should be. I know through experience after playing with the jumper settings of a spider box, which whilst being floored put the MIL light on and put into into sulk mode since the fuel rail pressure was too high. Read/cancelled code reset jumpers and it was fine again.

Am due to redyno on the 10th December


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## Radlin (Aug 18, 2011)

MK1Campaign said:


> VAG 2.0TFSI (S3 version) map up to 370bhp with the right exhaust and fuel pump. This is on the standard K04 turbo and standard internals.
> Not sure why so many people are questioning?


Dunno m8, wish I never started the thread now since i think pretty much 80%of the responses have been disbelieving and/or negative. Onlyway I guess is to publish a 0-60 (should be in low to mid 5's) but remeber she ways just uner 2 tons. or 1/4 mile against some equivilant diesel to prove (or Grizzles Octavia love to see his as a dot in my mirror) ... but can't be arsed. It is what it is and tbh don't give a t055 is anyone believes me or not... I'm very happy and to me that's all that counts.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

Radlin said:


> Dunno m8, wish I never started the thread now since i think pretty much 80%of the responses have been disbelieving and/or negative. Onlyway I guess is to publish a 0-60 (should be in low to mid 5's) but remeber she ways just uner 2 tons. or 1/4 mile against some equivilant diesel to prove (or Grizzles Octavia love to see his as a dot in my mirror) ... but can't be arsed. It is what it is and tbh don't give a t055 is anyone believes me or not... I'm very happy and to me that's all that counts.


Noone is saying they don't believe your figures are they though. We've pointed out that there is no such thing as a stage 3 tuned car with only a remap and intercooler. Were also questioning how reliable the car will be and how long before it goes wrong.


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## Radlin (Aug 18, 2011)

Accept your point hoiky, its just th eway some companies perhaps market maps 

Common details for ours are -

Stage 1 = 270hp fast road map
Stage 2 = 298hp (intercooler upgrade required)
Stage 3 = 312hp (intercooler and hybrid turbo needed)

We have though proven that a 300c without intercooler upgrade will run 'Stage 2' and attain those figures without the intercooler upgrade and a 300c with the intercooler will match or surpass stage 3 figures without the hybrid turbo. Testing was done on 3 vehicles.

The hybrid turbo as we understand it is simply a stronger unit, built to cope with higher tolerances. At the end of the day traffic and our roads won't allow you to use the extra performance for long periods anyway and the danger would only come into play if you were running a long run track day, which I have no intention on doing, Perhaps a few 0-60's at th ePod, but nothing more.


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

I give up


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## Radlin (Aug 18, 2011)

I do too!!

Prap's admin could close thread?


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

Radlin said:


> Accept your point hoiky, its just th eway some companies perhaps market maps
> 
> Common details for ours are -
> 
> ...


Sorry but this is the point we're all trying to make. It won't run stage 2, it will just be an aggressive stage 1 map.

It can't run/be stage 2 until parts have be added/upgraded. Sorry mate that's what people are trying to say.


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## Radlin (Aug 18, 2011)

Well I achieved the stage 2 figures without the intercooler which I now have fitted being the upgrade to run intercooler for stage 2 and have attained above the stage 2 figures and just shy of the stage 3 figures without the hybrid turbo (308hp).

Perhaps instead of stages then they should be referred to as road map, performance map and track day map... would this be more in line with the points people are trying to make, (which I do understand).


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Radlin said:


> Dunno m8, wish I never started the thread now since i think pretty much 80%of the responses have been disbelieving and/or negative. Onlyway I guess is to publish a 0-60 (should be in low to mid 5's) but remeber she ways just uner 2 tons. or 1/4 mile against some equivilant diesel to prove (or *Grizzles Octavia love to see his as a dot in my mirror*) ... but can't be arsed. It is what it is and tbh don't give a t055 is anyone believes me or not... I'm very happy and to me that's all that counts.


Highly unlikely but... I'd love to meet you at a quarter mile, lets do it??


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## silverback (Jun 18, 2008)

is this one of those threads that get linked on other forums ? :lol: you know the ones,like when that lad on here was saying how his dads mondeo had a mustang engine in it or some **** :lol: on another forum.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

silverback said:


> is this one of those threads that get linked on other forums ? :lol: you know the ones,like when that lad on here was saying how his dads mondeo had a mustang engine in it or some **** :lol: on another forum.


yeh its turning into that lol


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## silverback (Jun 18, 2008)

Grizzle said:


> yeh its turning into that lol


so exciting,i never actually seen one developing before lol.always been the forum member clicking the link to the other forum :lol:

what car does the OP have ?


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Chrysler 300C


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

closed at OP request.


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