# Are Modern Headlights Causing Accidents?



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

As title are these new LEDs saving lives or causing accidents?

For me if you see a pedestrian or bike earlier it has to be good, but with current intelligent lighting no doughting I often think they are too bright when you are facing them, but love having the LEDs on both our cars

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/ultra-bright-headlights-are-causing-accidents-say-campaigners/


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## percymon (Jun 27, 2007)

I don't think its the LEDs per se, some of the current issues are with high beam assist.

I find it a pain in the ass when cars behind me have it fitted on twisting but open cornered roads. The main beam just doesnt switch off fast enough (and no doubt the driver isn;t bothered to intervene)


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## Simz (Jun 7, 2013)

Just like to add in here what a pita blue lights are from emergency vehicles, in the dark and as a lorry driver they are over the top and blind other road users, I know they need them but when they cause a hazard it’s time to tone them down.


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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

I find the majority of the time that if I'm dazzled by a set of headlights it's on a new car not some old clunker with a dodgy set of high power bulbs.

I find high beam assist slow to switch off, where a human may detect the reflected brightness on a hedge or something the assist needs to see your actual lights before going to dip. I've also been flashed as they switch back to main beam as soon as the sensor can't see your lights giving a distracting flash just as they pass your drivers door.

A lot of the active 'smart' lights just can't seem to cope with bumpy roads and sporadic traffic. Being a bit of a Luddite I have concerns about how reliable theyre going to be as they age and start pointing wherever they feel like it.


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## RedUntilDead (Feb 10, 2009)

I hang back a bit before leaving work because a guy who lives local to me drives a new quashy. I sit fairly low to the ground in my car so his lights are blinding if he follows me. 
A few of the lads I know who are keen cyclists are complaining about the brightness of some headlights. Flip that around and some cycle lights could land aircraft.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Interesting so most agree for me if I’m out for a spirited drive adaptive lights can be to slow at times I agree but have improved from previous system I had


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

They are bad on some cars. Some of the 4x4 and SUVs they are too high.


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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

Doesn't help when morons drive around with full beam on all the time.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Wait for the Lazer lights if you thought Xenon and LED could be blinding....

Any headlight aimed wrong is dangerous. A 55W halogen can blind for a while if aimed wrong.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

Think its more to do with people looking directly at the car coming towards them rather than the road to be honest.

Additionally, with an aging population, I imagine cataracts is making things worse more than headlights are.


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## Hereisphilly (Nov 17, 2014)

Although I agree that modern lights do seem to dazzle a little bit more, having a car with full LEDs gives such a massive increase in light output and visibility on the road that as a driver I would take them any day of the week


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Hereisphilly said:


> Although I agree that modern lights do seem to dazzle a little bit more, having a car with full LEDs gives such a massive increase in light output and visibility on the road that as a driver I would take them any day of the week


Yes me too having them on the Merc and Mini although I have adaptive LED intelligent lights on the merc I would be happy just with the standard LED'S, and I think there is always trade offs with new tech for sure


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Anyone find LEDs a bit crap in Fog?

The light seems too white and reflects back more so that say an old Halogen.

I've found sometimes the xenons don't light up as much when in urban streets with the new LED lamposts. There don't seem to be a contrast with the LED street light and Xenon light. 

I only notice because I swap regular between the different techs.


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## Hereisphilly (Nov 17, 2014)

robertdon777 said:


> Anyone find LEDs a bit crap in Fog?
> 
> The light seems too white and reflects back more so that say an old Halogen.
> 
> ...


I read somewhere a while ago that the higher up the temperature rating (and therefore wavelength) of light, the less distance it travels, even though it may be/appear brighter

If so that might explain it

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## Ciddy (Apr 7, 2014)

More of an issue with the high beam assist for me. It's not efficient enough on most vehicles yet in my opinion. As long as you don't look directly at them I think the lights themselves are OK and certainly light up the road better.


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## DTB (Dec 20, 2017)

New VW's seem to me to have a particularly piercing and unpleasant headlight. Even their dipped beam is like a pair of welders coming towards you if there is a slight crest in the road.

Sometimes worse than cars though are the very powerful front lights used by cyclists. As an ex cyclist I'm all for be safe, be seen - but these are ridiculous. The worst ones seem to be mountain bikers making their way home along the road.


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

I find the worst either Mercedes or Land Rover jeeps. 

The X1 I have has stupid bright lights but they don’t seem to be that useful after a point, just bright. 

It’s been annoying with light wars for a while now, I also find some rear lights particularly bright, again to me seems Mercedes are worst with BMW a close second.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

DTB said:


> New VW's seem to me to have a particularly piercing and unpleasant headlight. Even their dipped beam is like a pair of welders coming towards you if there is a slight crest in the road.
> 
> Sometimes worse than cars though are the very powerful front lights used by cyclists. As an ex cyclist I'm all for be safe, be seen - but these are ridiculous. The worst ones seem to be mountain bikers making their way home along the road.


The flashing LED cycle lights are the most dangerous. They blind motorists which in turn makes it dangerous for cyclists.... Must be a law against it. The flashes have given me an instant migraine in the past.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

FFS Ive just been in my son's car on the A1079 and got flashed by nearly every car going past.

Have osram nightbreaker unlimited fitted to that car and the adjustment is correct (I recently had it checked just to make sure it wasn't too high).


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## pxr5 (Feb 13, 2012)

Rayaan said:


> FFS Ive just been in my son's car on the A1079 and got flashed by nearly every car going past.
> 
> Have osram nightbreaker unlimited fitted to that car and the adjustment is correct (I recently had it checked just to make sure it wasn't too high).


Obviously something is not right if every car is flashing you.


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## mawallace (Apr 18, 2017)

Rayaan said:


> FFS Ive just been in my son's car on the A1079 and got flashed by nearly every car going past.
> 
> Have osram nightbreaker unlimited fitted to that car and the adjustment is correct (I recently had it checked just to make sure it wasn't too high).


How long do the the 'nightbreaker's last? I am thinking of replacing the OEM with some upgraded lamps but am put off because I have been told that these will have a shorter life. The car's a Golf which means its a pain to change the bulbs.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

pxr5 said:


> Obviously something is not right if every car is flashing you.


Not that I can tell - got to the point where I flash back to show that its not the high beams.

Think its just bright bulbs. I get flashed in my RX too but unlike the Golf, when I flash them back, they usually just stop dead in their tracks.



mawallace said:


> How long do the the 'nightbreaker's last? I am thinking of replacing the OEM with some upgraded lamps but am put off because I have been told that these will have a shorter life. The car's a Golf which means its a pain to change the bulbs.


Son's car is a Golf MK5 - the bulbs are probably the easiest thing to change on them?

Been about 3-4 months so far, mainly night time driving and they're still going. I would expect them to last about 1-2 years roughly.


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## mawallace (Apr 18, 2017)

Here's what I mean - I was pointed to this my a mechanic - it's the only way on a Mk7 as there's no room for hands (unless they are very small)


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

Don’t think modern headlights cause accidents, however I think that using the wrong headlamp bulbs cause glare and blinding lamps.
Conversions from standard H4 or H7 to HID or LED in standard fitting cause a lot of glare, especially from a distance. 

As the headlamps lens get dirty it causing a blinding glare or cause a halo effect.

If I am informed correctly with the new MOT if you have this type of lights you will need to have levellers and headlamp washers working. 

I tried “white” headlamp bulbs, but find after the first excitement that they actually preform worse than the more yellower version.
What make sense, to create a whiter light you need to filter the yellow out, thus causing a lower performance on the same wattage. 

Hid and Led work different but I feel they only work properly in dedicated armatures.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

mawallace said:


> Here's what I mean - I was pointed to this my a mechanic - it's the only way on a Mk7 as there's no room for hands (unless they are very small)
> 
> How to replace headlight bulbs on your Volkswagen Golf VII - Philips automotive lighting - YouTube


Im pretty sure you don't have to disassemble the headlight to get to the bulbs lol? surely not

If you do though, I would probably just go for some mid-performance bulbs rather than high performance ones which typically need changing atleast every 2 years, if not a year


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## NeilG40 (Jan 1, 2009)

Caledoniandream said:


> Don't think modern headlights cause accidents, however I think that using the wrong headlamp bulbs cause glare and blinding lamps.
> Conversions from standard H4 or H7 to HID or LED in standard fitting cause a lot of glare, especially from a distance.
> 
> As the headlamps lens get dirty it causing a blinding glare or cause a halo effect.
> ...


My Leaf has factory LED's and while it's got self levellers, it doesn't have headlamp washers, can't even think how it would be possible to have them what with the placement of the housing.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

I don't know but what with them and the idiots that change innards and don't have them aligned properly are a total nuisance for everyone else.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

Rayaan said:


> FFS Ive just been in my son's car on the A1079 and got flashed by nearly every car going past.
> 
> Have osram nightbreaker unlimited fitted to that car and the adjustment is correct (I recently had it checked just to make sure it wasn't too high).


Although the beam tester may show the placement as correct could it be a stray pattern that is causing glare. You and your son could both go out and drive toward each other just to see what all those other drivers were flashing you for.

This is some of the issue I have with my previous comment where someone else would just fit the bulbs and wouldn't careless about anyone else or leave their fancy do-dad lamps on high beam believing they will do the rest for the driver.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

Andy from Sandy said:


> Although the beam tester may show the placement as correct could it be a stray pattern that is causing glare. You and your son could both go out and drive toward each other just to see what all those other drivers were flashing you for.
> 
> This is some of the issue I have with my previous comment where someone else would just fit the bulbs and wouldn't careless about anyone else or leave their fancy do-dad lamps on high beam believing they will do the rest for the driver.


I fitted the bulbs myself and didn't change anything on the car. Ive also looked at it from front and I dont even think its that bright unless kneeling down in front of the car.

Perhaps it just looks brighter due to the roads which are basically pitch black unlit country roads

Only happens on country roads BTW, not anywhere else including motorways.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Changed bulbs on daughters mini and sons fiesta to night breakers or similar never had an issue I here them speaking about made big difference dip only on the fiesta though


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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

NeilG40 said:


> My Leaf has factory LED's and while it's got self levellers, it doesn't have headlamp washers, can't even think how it would be possible to have them what with the placement of the housing.


The levellers and washers thing is a common misconception. There are cars with factory fitted leds and hids which have neither. However, if they are fitted they must be working correctly otherwise it is an mot fail.


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## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

robertdon777 said:


> The flashing LED cycle lights are the most dangerous. They blind motorists which in turn makes it dangerous for cyclists.... Must be a law against it. The flashes have given me an instant migraine in the past.


I met one the other week whose light was set to flash so quickly, it could only be described as 'strobing' - I felt there was a real risk of triggering an epileptic fit in someone who was susceptible - I mean wtf do they need to flash; a reasonably bright continuous light is much easier to pick up on, especially in town where there is a lot of traffic, parked cars and windows with car headlights glinting off them - a flashing white light on a bike is barely noticeable. I suppose I should be pleased that they actually have lights - a massive proportion don't 



Rayaan said:


> Additionally, with an aging population, I imagine cataracts is making things worse more than headlights are.


Whilst some eye conditions may make matters worse, the reason I find so many modern light blinding is I think because I have pretty good night vision - as do many other people. It is those drivers who think that they need brighter headlamps who have more likely got the eyesight problem (otherwise they would almost certainly find that a pair of good condition, correctly adjusted 55W halogens are perfectly adequate).

There is certainly a big problem with certain marques - Land Rover products seem to me to be the worst by a long way, with the premium German marques also causing me pain.

There is also a very serious issue with people fitting HID or LED lights into lamp units not designed to focus them correctly. I think the new MOT specifications for beam pattern (coming in May) may weed out a few of these that have light bleeding out in every direction.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Mugwump said:


> Whilst some eye conditions may make matters worse, the reason I find so many modern light blinding is I think because I have pretty good night vision - as do many other people. It is those drivers who think that they need brighter headlamps who have more likely got the eyesight problem


Tell you what, I think you're probably right.

What doesn't help also is if people have dirty or scratched windscreens, the light hits the screen and then spreads through the scratches or dirt and creates glare that shouldn't be there blocking your vision.

The amount of people I see that slow right down, brake harshly and get right up to the left side of the road almost as if a super tanker was coming towards them and won't fit past is ridiculous, you're doing 60mph in a national speed limit zone and the car in front brakes down to 30mph harshly and dives to the left because a single car is driving on the other side of the road as normal, really gets on my ****.

Another eye opener for me was a friend of mine was taking us somewhere, never been in a car with him driving, were driving along country lanes and I asked him why he didn't put his high beams on. He said oh I only use them on when I don't know the road. I said so you don't want too see further down the road to see if there's anything there? He just shrugged it off and carried on driving with low beams in total pitch black with no cars around.


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

Starbuck88 said:


> Another eye opener for me was a friend of mine was taking us somewhere, never been in a car with him driving, were driving along country lanes and I asked him why he didn't put his high beams on. He said oh I only use them on when I don't know the road. I said so you don't want too see further down the road to see if there's anything there? He just shrugged it off and carried on driving with low beams in total pitch black with no cars around.


I too use the high beam very sparingly, as when you drive with it on, and you need to dip for a car or a blind bend, your eyes need a moment to adapt on the much lesser light, and it appears much darker.
I can see very well with my dipped beam and my eyes adapt very well to the light available.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

Starbuck88 said:


> Tell you what, I think you're probably right.
> 
> What doesn't help also is if people have dirty or scratched windscreens, the light hits the screen and then spreads through the scratches or dirt and creates glare that shouldn't be there blocking your vision.
> 
> ...


Tell you what doesn't help either - the bloody wires in heated windscreens. Found them to be an absolute nightmare at night in the Fords, Volvos and Jags Ive driven


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