# AA Windscreens - A Warning



## billmassey (Aug 10, 2010)

EDIT: UPDATE 28/11/12:
The saga continues! The AA have sent out an engineer to assess who has written off the car and they have sent off a cheque in post of book value minus a £600 scrappage fee!!. This is without any communication to us. My Dad (whose car it is) phoned them up to see if the engineer had been and they told him this as if it were perfectly reasonable. We hope the car is still at BMW as it has personal belongings in it... But I am fuming, firstly I don't see how it affects the car's insurance when it was an outside company who did poor work on it causing damage. And secondly they have taken money off our payment because of a scrappage fee and failed to let us know that they had written it off. Does anyone know of a motoring advice organisation (other than the AA!) or something like that to pursue it properly. Thanks in advance for any advice.
EDIT:UPDATE 19/11/12:
The car has been assessed by BMW and they have quoted... approx. £8000 for the work to be carried out!!! This is because most of the wiring loom has to be replaced as it has been sitting in water for 2 weeks. Also 600 to repair the bonnet! It seems that the AA want to write the car off and give us book value for the car :'( We don't want to accept this though, the car is worth much more to us than the book price, plus it's very unlikely you would find a replacement in the same condition for the book price. Any advice? 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just thought i'd share my experience to warn you about using AA windscreens...

After a crack appeared (no idea why) in our e46 touring's windscreen we decided to use the AA windscreen cover included in the AA insurance.
So out they came, fitted the windscreen, all was fine.

However, after a weekend of heavy rain I opened the rear door to find this :doublesho:

















And it got worse than that after I mopped it up as that just caused more water to come through. I had no idea what could have caused it... So I took to google and found a number of other people who have had a poorly fitted windscreen causing water running down the back of the dashboard under the floor and up through the holes where the mats would lock in.

So phoned up the AA and they took responsibility for it and came and fitted another screen. Plus today the car has gone into the BMW dealership to be stripped out and all electrics etc. checked. (£800 estimate for the work, paid for by the AA)

I thought this would be the end of it. But whilst cleaning the car last weekend I found this dent and deep scratches in the bonnet (worse than seems in pics):

















There were recent pictures of the car before the windscreen fittings with no scratches and it has hardly moved since. Considering the shoddy work in the first place I instantly thought it could have been AA windscreens. Lifting in/out windscreens and dropping it or dropping tools etc. So phoned up the AA again to discuss the problem and again they are agreeing to it and whilst it's in the dealership they will sort that too. One worry is that if there are electrical faults + an expensive respray they might write the car off !? can they do this?
Am impressed with how they have dealt with it but it should not have happened in the first place , especially when this was originally an insurance claim!


----------



## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

i feel for you pal:devil:


----------



## absolute (Jan 19, 2010)

I have to fix a lot of problems for quite a well known company, happens quite a lot I reckon.


----------



## kwakzx6r (Aug 6, 2009)

AA windscreens basically bought out the defunct auto windscreens I am led to believe - I'm sure there was a reason they went under - hopefully the AA won't be dragged under as well.


----------



## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

No they won't write the car off that's a silly thing to even think lol... It's being repaired but paid for under the AA
They probably aren't even using their own insurance they will likely have a seperate kitty for customer payments for things under £2000.


----------



## cotter (Aug 31, 2008)

I had the same problem with Auto Windscreens, water running down the dash and over the switches after they screwed up replacing the screen. Had a real fight with them but they did fix it in the end. If that was indicative of their customer service, I'm not surprised they went under lol


----------



## billmassey (Aug 10, 2010)

cotter said:


> I had the same problem with Auto Windscreens, water running down the dash and over the switches after they screwed up replacing the screen. Had a real fight with them but they did fix it in the end. If that was indicative of their customer service, I'm not surprised they went under lol


What was the resulting damage? Anything to the electrics?


----------



## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Feel for you mate that's diabolical.Personally i usually go to the main dealers for new screens OEM aren't that expensive Good luck


----------



## billmassey (Aug 10, 2010)

UPDATE 19/11/12:
The car has been assessed by BMW and they have quoted... approx. £8000 for the work to be carried out!!! This is because most of the wiring loom has to be replaced as it has been sitting in water for 2 weeks. Also 600 to repair the bonnet! It seems that the AA want to write the car off and give us book value for the car :'( We don't want to accept this though, the car is worth much more to us than the book price, plus it's very unlikely you would find a replacement in the same condition for the book price. Any advice?


----------



## Hasan1 (Jul 1, 2011)

£8000 sounds like a lot of money


----------



## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

I would find the price of a top spec, top condition car in your car's age range (give or take 6 months) and say you'd settle for that price and you'd want it done with absolutely no affect on your insurance prices. So perhaps push for the £8k of "repairs", write the car off.

To be fair it's a BMW E46 touring and I'm sure it's got many happy family memories but it's not like you've sunk thousands into it modifying. I've had a look online and I am struggling to find one for more than £6000 if I'm honest.. So if you agree on a settlement figure then it's happy days.

And for £8k (say settlement figure of £6k + a couple of grand) you can buy a E90 BMW Touring. Or a new shape M5 Touring. Or infact a lot of very very nice cars.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Cars-Moto...mobiles_UK&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=7000&_udhi=8000


----------



## billmassey (Aug 10, 2010)

xJay1337 said:


> I would find the price of a top spec, top condition car in your car's age range (give or take 6 months) and say you'd settle for that price and you'd want it done with absolutely no affect on your insurance prices. So perhaps push for the £8k of "repairs", write the car off.
> 
> To be fair it's a BMW E46 touring and I'm sure it's got many happy family memories but it's not like you've sunk thousands into it modifying. I've had a look online and I am struggling to find one for more than £6000 if I'm honest.. So if you agree on a settlement figure then it's happy days.
> 
> ...


It's a 2003 and the book price is around £3k. It's got a lot of extras; lots of leather, wood pack, higher spec alloys etc. but that doesn't seem to change the valuation price much (online anyway) So why would they pay £6k + £2k? I'm asuming they'll give us £3k and write the car off and I bet I can't find an equivalent car for that price.


----------



## billmassey (Aug 10, 2010)

This is the most similar car I can find: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif.../keywords/leather_2003_/radius/1500?logcode=p, same wood pack, similar leather and same spec other than the wheels and body kit


----------



## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

There you go then.
I would ask them for more than the car value because it was ultimately their **** up.
So if they offer you £3k I'd push for 4, say you'd need to hire a car for a few weeks while finding another. 

Alternatively ask them to give you the cost of the car and let you keep the car. It will be written off probably a cat B or C however you'll then be able to sell the car as a whole as a running "for spares or repair" for around £1800-£2000..


----------



## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

I think the insurance company want to write the car off tbh. There's no way that little puddle of water has caused £8k worth of damage to the electrics. You'd be surprised how often insurance companies try and write off perfectly good cars! It probably works in their favour should they be able to sell the car on as a damaged vehicle and offer you 'book' value. Less hassle for them too.

I had the exact same problem on my seat ibiza and all that was needed was for the wiring to be thoroughly dried out and the airbag module to be reset. Obviously, the carpet and sound deadening was taken out for a while to dry off and be cleaned.

BMW dealers will obviously 'exaggerate' the amount of work required (as in any insurance instructed repair on your car). It may only need the section of wire that's wet to be replaced.

If your keen on keeping the car, i'd just fight your case. Ask for a breakdown on the (rediculous) quotation and go from there...


----------



## billmassey (Aug 10, 2010)

rf860 said:


> I think the insurance company want to write the car off tbh. There's no way that little puddle of water has caused £8k worth of damage to the electrics. You'd be surprised how often insurance companies try and write off perfectly good cars! It probably works in their favour should they be able to sell the car on as a damaged vehicle and offer you 'book' value. Less hassle for them too.
> 
> I had the exact same problem on my seat ibiza and all that was needed was for the wiring to be thoroughly dried out and the airbag module to be reset. Obviously, the carpet and sound deadening was taken out for a while to dry off and be cleaned.
> 
> ...


Thanks, someone from the AA is going to the dealership to discuss it so maybe they will see that not £8k worth needs replacing and hopefully bring it down.

What makes it complicated is that it's the insurance company who has also caused the damage (yes AA windscreens and AA insurance are separate but they must be connected?). I don't understand why it has anything to do with writing off the car. AA windscreens damaged the car and they should have their own insurance to cover that. Why should it affect the car insurance and so why should the car be written off? For example if it were autoglass who damaged the car through poor workmanship would they still write off the car?


----------



## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Isn't the windscreen replacement through your insurance though? I.e you'll have claimed your insurance windscreen cover (and probably had to pay a £70 excess). AA windscreens are just doing the job that say national windscreens would do


----------



## mattsbmw (Jul 20, 2008)

£8000 :doublesho: sounds like they have 1 too many 0 on that figure, i seriously cant see what would cost that and why a small leak woul mean the electrics are sitting in water and causing damage.


----------



## billmassey (Aug 10, 2010)

rf860 said:


> Isn't the windscreen replacement through your insurance though? I.e you'll have claimed your insurance windscreen cover (and probably had to pay a £70 excess). AA windscreens are just doing the job that say national windscreens would do


Correct, but its not ours nor AA insurance's fault that there's water damage? the liability lies with AA Windscreens doesn't it?


----------



## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

I agree. I'd check your terms and conditions to see if there's any clauses for damage caused by a third party that have been instructed by the insurance.


----------



## billmassey (Aug 10, 2010)

mattsbmw said:


> £8000 :doublesho: sounds like they have 1 too many 0 on that figure, i seriously cant see what would cost that and why a small leak woul mean the electrics are sitting in water and causing damage.


Just had a look at the breakdown of the quote. The main cost is replacement of the entire wiring loom :doublesho ! That costs £1900 and labour is something like £3600! I think they basically don't want to do it (and probably can't) so are just saying the whole loom needs replacing and that'll make the AA write off the car


----------



## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Can take hours to replace a loom problem is most dealerships are scared to repair looms due to the imfamous liability problems

in that loom things like ABS signals Air bag systems Power steering sensors run all safety critical and in some cases getting 2 wires out place can fire the air bags for example...... So due to most of the mechanics now been glorified "swap it's" its the route they go down

But in turn probably the entire car has to be pulled apart

that loom Could run into the engine bay for the air con fan on the condenser and all the way to the back for the number plate lights...

Not to mention into the roof for the courtosy light and to the hand brake

its not a five minute job but 3.6k in labour :lol:


----------



## billmassey (Aug 10, 2010)

andy monty said:


> Can take hours to replace a loom problem is most dealerships are scared to repair looms due to the imfamous liability problems
> 
> in that loom things like ABS signals Air bag systems Power steering sensors run all safety critical and in some cases getting 2 wires out place can fire the air bags for example...... So due to most of the mechanics now been glorified "swap it's" its the route they go down
> 
> ...


Agreed! Although, isn't it around £60 per hour at a BMW dealership. = 60 hours labour...


----------



## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

I would check your insurance, as mentioned the work may be covered by your own insurance so it will go down as a not at fault claim essentially.
If its not covered by your insurance make sure everything is being covered. They will always want to pay you less. Simple don't accept it. Make it very clear the standard it was and you would want FULL compensation.

As for the quote - it seems about right - Fitting a complete loom is a sod of a job, virtually everything out in the car, then putting it all back in, how many clips are broken..not replaced then leading to squeaks which then take hours to diagnose etc etc. Its not a job that will be taken on lightly.

Car manufacturers also now won't replace part of a loom. A friend had this when the cable came off the connector on his airbag lead. All it needed was a new connector but no they wanted to do a new complete car loom at 1600! I fixed it with a bit of soldering. An hour of work getting to it, doing it properly heat shrinking etc and it was fixed....but that actually required some skill which many working at dealers don't have.


----------



## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

billmassey said:


> Car manufacturers also now won't replace part of a loom. A friend had this when the cable came off the connector on his airbag lead. All it needed was a new connector but no they wanted to do a new complete car loom at 1600! I fixed it with a bit of soldering. An hour of work getting to it, doing it properly heat shrinking etc and it was fixed....but that actually required some skill which many working at dealers don't have.


half the time they cant fill the car with oil without slapping it all over the engine bay bit of fine soldering they'd probably burn your seat and melt half the loom :wall:


----------



## billmassey (Aug 10, 2010)

UPDATE 28/11/12:
The saga continues! The AA have sent out an engineer to assess who has written off the car and they have sent off a cheque in post of book value minus a £600 scrappage fee!!. This is without any communication to us. My Dad (whose car it is) phoned them up to see if the engineer had been and they told him this as if it were perfectly reasonable. We hope the car is still at BMW as it has personal belongings in it... But I am fuming, firstly I don't see how it affects the car's insurance when it was an outside company who did poor work on it causing damage. And secondly they have taken money off our payment because of a scrappage fee and failed to let us know that they had written it off. Does anyone know of a motoring advice organisation (other than the AA!) or something like that to pursue it properly. Thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

Was this going through your insurance or thiers. If theirs. What they do with the car i.e. scrappage is no concern of you. You should get the whole book value for it.

I would have thought that until you agree to the payment you are owners of the car and thus they cannot scrap it. If they do scrap it then they have scrapped your possessions, and I would be claiming for every single one of them.

Small claims courts are always handy for this if its less than 5K


----------



## keithjeb (Nov 25, 2012)

Get on the phone to the dealers when they open and instruct them not to release the car to anyone without your authority. Follow this up in writing to them.

Separately ring the insurance (keeping a note of names etc), tell them you haven't accepted the offer, and ask them to verify that they are processing this under their public liability insurance, not your (presumably comprehensive) policy. That last is very important since it isn't your fault, nor is it related to your other insurance and you don't want it affecting no claims or having to be declared at renewal time.

Lastly I'd be on the phone to any independent BMW specialists and ask them for comparables (they don't need to be advertised on their site, just sold recently - if you make eyes about buying something from them they should be fairly easy). As a starter for ten, rix in warrington have an E46 320d touring on a 51 plate advertised at 3990
http://www.rixmotorcompany.co.uk/bmw-320d-se-touring-in-warrington-cheshire-2493171
That doesn't have leather or wood, so theres a good argument that you should be into 4.5k territory at least.

Don't be fobbed off with any book value ********, that only applies to a claim on your motor insurance policy. Under a claim on their liability insurance they need to return you to the state you were in before the incident. I presume you're presently tooling around in an equivalent vehicle on their money?


----------



## billmassey (Aug 10, 2010)

keithjeb said:


> Get on the phone to the dealers when they open and instruct them not to release the car to anyone without your authority. Follow this up in writing to them.
> 
> Separately ring the insurance (keeping a note of names etc), tell them you haven't accepted the offer, and ask them to verify that they are processing this under their public liability insurance, not your (presumably comprehensive) policy. That last is very important since it isn't your fault, nor is it related to your other insurance and you don't want it affecting no claims or having to be declared at renewal time.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply, really helpful. Yes they've provided a courtesy car.


----------



## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

Don't back down it may take ages but it was not your fault , when a woman reversed over my bike I claimed for the datatag , alarms new tyres I'd just had recent service etc etc . All paid


----------



## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

From what a friend of mine proved twice is that a 3rd party insurance company had NO right to salvage your car......

the car is YOURS...... They broke it making it worthless............ they have to put you in the position you was in before the f--k up and the car remains your property to do with what you see fit...


----------

