# 'Skint' programme.



## Chris CPT

Mainly irritated by the chav scum on here.
Lass gets £1,600 PER MONTH plus the rent gets paid too!!! Grrrr.
She's 21 and already has 5 kids to 3 different blokes. Boyfriend said there's 'no work' in the area. Absolute rubbish.
She admitted 'you basically get paid to sit on your ****'. They have an Xbox
and a flat-screen TV.
£1,600 a month is more than my wife earns in a decet full-time job she's been doing for 10 years.


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## B17BLG

shocking isn't it


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## The Cueball

it's how modern Britain is set up... 

we all encourage these types of morons because we feel sorry for them, and they 'deserve' a life...

it's a f******g joke.... the more we help these people, the more they spawn and produce more like them... they are a disgrace...

I wonder what is going to happen in a few generations time when there are no workers left... where is all the money to pay for these work shy people...

but, as long as we all continue to feel sorry for them, sit and moan behind computers... nothing will get done to fix it.... and no-one seems brave enough to do what is needed, and vote the right people in....

:thumb:


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## Ross

Nearly earnt more than me working 260 hours last month,tax went with nearly a grand but still :-!


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## floydlloyd

£1600? Thats a lot. Its absolutly rediculous how this happens.


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## Ross

Plus the rent that must be atleast 500 quid.


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## Buck

It's absolutely ridiculous.

How are the children supposed to get a work ethic if this is the case? Now you know where all your hard earned cash goes from your tax!

This is where I hope the universal credit system moves it all in the right direction - it can't continue [but probably will]


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## cmillsjoe

yea the £1600 was just for her then free rent and god knows how much the boy was getting ,over 2K between them a month total joke thats more than me and the other half earn and we have a mortgage to pay and two cars to run at £100 a week on fuel


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## Ming

At the risk of repeating myself the answer is simple.
don't call it a benefit call it a wage. Then if they want it make them do 40 hours a week to get it. SIMPLES. If that 40 hrs is picking up sh*te then so be it. 
If they don't like it they don't get paid. If they don't lke the job they are far more likely to go get another one that they do like.
After 35 years we could actually give them a pension - oh look .....we already do!!!
Cost. Almost ZERO. Result. All the work shy glass back bast*rds go out in the rain and the snow and work for 40 hrs a week like the rest of us and those of us who have put 35 years of work in to the system wont feel quite so USED.
Ming the mad


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## Chris CPT

The lad sat on his backside all day playing on his console and watching TV - and then when the council found out he was living there when she was meant to be 'alone', they stopped the money and the girl realised just how much it was to keep 5 kids and pay all the bills.


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## con fox

I know where your coming from guys. Worse of all, it is a poverty trap. We see the same in Ireland too. 
Providing people with "just enough money" is a prision sentence, it is counter productive.
If people got far less money, but the savings were spent to allocate resources for work, training, education, childcare and so on, they would make a more positive contribution to society.


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## Deniance

I was waiting for this thread, since last weeks episode, it is quite shocking, but out of all the people on the show I cannot see any of these people getting a job, ever!, 
I was going to write a big long moan, but its late and I just don't give a **** nothing will happen, benefits will go up, MPs pay goes up, mine goes down,

1600 pound a month and rent free, that is awful, I am a electrician and I earned 1700 last month, I need a career change, !!

Give them all more benefits, let them outpay the people who pay in, system crash job done, nothing will ever change, its gone too far


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## Deniance

Fat ***** crying, cos they've stopped money, ****ing Xbox, ****ing 40inch tv, ****ing tattoo machine, where did they come from her pay?, ****ing ****s, **** off,, don't get that fat with no food love, twats , I'm going for a ***


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## con fox

you are all very pissed off and justifiably so! But you do see that their lives are not good, each of them are un happy. Even doing zero, watching TV, on the playstation, what ever. 
Throwing cash at a welfare system is a form of non-progression from an inter generational perspective. 
I am not saying we can afford this, but some one at government level, at a policy level, is stating exactly just that.

I still feel angry, but more so at the fact that the very few elite of our society are hell bent on retaining resources for them selves. Not talking about money here, but resources and distribution of resources, so as to enable more people to make better life decisions.


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## Jdm boy

Some people really ride the gravy train alright..

But unfortinitly myself and my father have been out of work for tge last little while (we work together) and we decided to sign on, it's a pure joke I get €134 a week which i can live on because I have no overheads but my father has been paying tax/prsi/pensions etc etc for the last 40 years and he gets €79 a week lol and that supposed to feed three of us AND pay the bills... I give what I can to pay bills and food etc but it's a pain on the ass when you hear people getting all that money for sweet F all.

Will be changing professions and getting another job soon though


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## Kerr

Deniance said:


> Fat ***** crying, cos they've stopped money, ****ing Xbox, ****ing 40inch tv, ****ing tattoo machine, where did they come from her pay?, ****ing ****s, **** off,, don't get that fat with no food love, twats , I'm going for a ***


You missed the iphone on the sofa too.


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## Kerr

The biggest problem is these people don't see any harm in what they are doing. 

They think it is perfectly fine whilst they are still the ones who are hard done to and nothing is changing the cycle. 

From going from £4 left to having enough cash to pay for their small wedding 2 months later highlights there is plenty of spare cash. 

£1600 per month plus rent and probably council tax will equate to around a £37, 000 salary. 

A £37, 000 salary is well over the average UK and they wouldn't have any chance of earning that money in the real world. 

I thought the government was going to make it that non working people couldn't get more than working people? 

At the equivalent of minimum wage they would only get about £24, 000. 

There isn't a chance you could support 7 people on that without sliding into poverty, which is another thing the goverment is trying to rectify. 

The only way to stop so much draining of the economy and families living in poverty is to take action to stop these people having kids. 

Coils or some kind of contraception should be compulsory. Sterilisation in extreme cases.


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## Deniance

Kerr said:


> You missed the iphone on the sofa too.


Are you serious? I didn't see that, its obvious she and he use the wage they get to buy luxurys as well! God its early too early, here I am in work already getting wound up....


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## Kerr

Deniance said:


> Are you serious? I didn't see that, its obvious she and he use the wage they get to buy luxurys as well! God its early too early, here I am in work already getting wound up....


There was a white iphone on the arm of the sofa when I was watching.


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## Chris79100

I think that it doesn't matter how much they've got, only if working people got much!
I'm not a person that want the other to have less, I prefer that we've got much.
Hope you'll understand what I mean ;-)


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## MEH4N

modern britain is so corrupt its ****ed up. what also pisses me off is the people who live a good life in prison. Those criminals show be put in care homes to be mistreated and the elderly in prison where they would get 3 meals a day and have someone monitoring them all the time. 

Its sad that these scroungers think its fine to teach the next generation living of benefits is fine. Pathetic people. If i watch the show itll probably just annoy me.


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## Knight Rider

We don't watch much TV, but we were told to watch this.

Wish we never!

All those feckin feral kids, pregnant mothers pished up and smoking **** / drugs. Me and the wife have been together for 18 years, only just able to feel we are in a position to afford a child, so are trying, but now there are complications as we left it so long! 
Those piles of ****e pop 'em out from about 14 yo, dads occupation is a burglar etc, dragging more scum up.

Think about this, most people we talk to are having kids later, and maybe one or possibly 2 children depending on circumstance and affordability. These oxygen thieves pop 3,4,5,6,7, upwards kids out as we are the ones paying for them, with no consequences. Those 7 or more kids will have 7 more in 15/16 years. In 40 years, there will be more of them than us!:doublesho


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## spursfan

Really pisses me off, met the social worker today to talk about the care for my mum who has cancer all through her, there is a waiting list for the hospices, two visits daily at the moment from the district nurses, social advised that she needs 4 visits, which means carers instead of district nurses meaning that this will cost us a shedload.
The state she is in, she should be in hospice as she does not eat or drink much, cant stand on her own and is so weak that she cant even roll onto her side for a bit of respite from laying on her back, that social women insists that there are worse cases being looked after at home:wall:
Should be like these lowlife and get it all paid for

Kev


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## Chrissyronald

I don't want to get myself to worked up over this but it's a disgrace that this country allows people like that to have "x" amount of kids when they cannot support them. I totally agree with some of the comments that's on this thread about making them work for there benefits! I actually felt sick when she said "why should I not have kids even if I don't work" totally brain dead leeches on society.


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## Lloyd71

Kerr said:


> At the equivalent of minimum wage they would only get about £24, 000.


£24,000 is well over the minimum wage unless you're working mental hours each week, they should get a lot less. My brother is earning £12,000 a year in full time work, he'd bloody love £24,000!


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## Kerr

Lloyd71 said:


> £24,000 is well over the minimum wage unless you're working mental hours each week. £24,000 would mean living a life of luxury for a lot of people. My brother is earning £12,000 a year in full time work, he'd bloody love £24,000!


There is two of them.

£6.31 is the minimum wage. So that adds up to £13,124 per year each for 40 hours per week, which is almost £26,249 per year. They would lose some tax and national insurance, so I guessed £24,000.

I don't think £24,000 would go very far for a single person living alone. That would be easily swallowed by a mortgage or renting a reasonable property plus all costs.

I have always wondered how many people manage to live the lives they do when many don't earn good money.


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## iPlod999

I meet people like these almost daily at work. 

I know what life I would rather have!


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## Derek Mc

Lloyd71 said:


> £24,000 is well over the minimum wage unless you're working mental hours each week, they should get a lot less. My brother is earning £12,000 a year in full time work, he'd bloody love £24,000!


And remember that £24,000 is tax free, no council tax and rent assisted too, it is an outrage that this can happen in truth but we allow it!!!!

The £24,000 if you adjust it to the same level for an employed person with tax, N.I. and average mortgage would equate to around £39,000 per annum.

Now go on how many earn that much in the post apocalyse recession world?????

Kind of puts the money in perspective when you add in all the deductions "honest workers" pay


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## james_19742000

I havent seen the programme but I can guess the contents, young Mum and Boyfriend, popping kids out every 18 months or so to claim a 'pregnancy' allowance, plus extra Income Support, Child Benefit, Child Tax credit etc etc etc dont do bugger all in life and expect a free ride from everybody else???!!!???

My family live on benefits, I am not ashamed to say it, my wife is disabled and my son is Autistic with behavourial issues etc etc so yes the state system had to step in on Doctors advice for my health, as I couldnt continue my 70 hour per week job plus care for my family, yes we get an variety of benefits, but as an actual 'wage' to myself I get £59 per week and for that I have to prove that I care for one person in my house for a minimum of 35 hours per week, but when you put that in the mix with everything else then it makes the household income comparable to an average family with an 'average' wage, but, what gets me is that we claim what we are entitled to in our situation, we dont go out as my wife cant (I mean socially i.e. out for a drink, meal etc), we are careful at shopping we dont go to any extreme, the kids are clothed with items from supermarkets etc and we dont moan about it, we have an OK lifestyle, we have a few nice things in life, we dont drink etc we manage our money to provide us with everything we need as a family.

However, what gets me, is that we get tarred with the same brush as people such as this, those that are deliberatly working the system for there own benefit, and having more children that they need as it means more money, bigger house etc however, those that dont me and my family dont see my wife stuck in bed for days on end due to het poor health, they dont see that the highlight of her week could be a trip to Asda etc

I try to give my children a work ethic, they do things around the house with me and I reward them, my eldest I made them go out and find work as I told them that whilst you may see me and your Mum not working as such, I do work as I work to provide care for your Mum and to make sure you kids are cared for, fed, clothed etc 

To me the benefit system is there to help and assist people that fall on hard times, people that need help from the state due to health or disability issues, and it drives me mad when you see people that just sprout kids willy-nilly for no reason other than to get more money for them, you see them sat on there **** in front of the telly all day long, eating McDonalds, drinking Coca-Cola and letting teh kids go out and cause trouble, the genuine people out there that need help are losing out because of users such as this, or those of us that are genuine are being questioned about our honesty because there are liars out there!

As part of our benefit claim, we get called in periodically to make sure everything is the same, everything is still current etc, but I find that one of the most humiliating things on life, having to sit there opposite someone who treats you and speaks to you like ****, because they 'put you in a bubble' of scum like many who claim benefits, for me I am in favour of benefit caps, I am in favour of clamping down on fraud etc however, what I am not in favour of is the government just targetting everyone that claims benefits and going after them to please middle class voters, which appears to be happening!

Would I go back to my previous job? In a bloody heartbeat, without a doubt, yes my previous job was a bit crap, yes the pay wasnt great, but it gave me a sense of pride, something which no amount of benefit money can ever give you!!!


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## rinns

Kerr said:


> There was a white iphone on the arm of the sofa when I was watching.


That was hers, sure i noticed a black galaxy!


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## Hercs74

james_19742000 said:


> I havent seen the programme but I can guess the contents, young Mum and Boyfriend, popping kids out every 18 months or so to claim a 'pregnancy' allowance, plus extra Income Support, Child Benefit, Child Tax credit etc etc etc dont do bugger all in life and expect a free ride from everybody else???!!!???
> 
> My family live on benefits, I am not ashamed to say it, my wife is disabled and my son is Autistic with behavourial issues etc etc so yes the state system had to step in on Doctors advice for my health, as I couldnt continue my 70 hour per week job plus care for my family, yes we get an variety of benefits, but as an actual 'wage' to myself I get £59 per week and for that I have to prove that I care for one person in my house for a minimum of 35 hours per week, but when you put that in the mix with everything else then it makes the household income comparable to an average family with an 'average' wage, but, what gets me is that we claim what we are entitled to in our situation, we dont go out as my wife cant (I mean socially i.e. out for a drink, meal etc), we are careful at shopping we dont go to any extreme, the kids are clothed with items from supermarkets etc and we dont moan about it, we have an OK lifestyle, we have a few nice things in life, we dont drink etc we manage our money to provide us with everything we need as a family.
> 
> However, what gets me, is that we get tarred with the same brush as people such as this, those that are deliberatly working the system for there own benefit, and having more children that they need as it means more money, bigger house etc however, those that dont me and my family dont see my wife stuck in bed for days on end due to het poor health, they dont see that the highlight of her week could be a trip to Asda etc
> 
> I try to give my children a work ethic, they do things around the house with me and I reward them, my eldest I made them go out and find work as I told them that whilst you may see me and your Mum not working as such, I do work as I work to provide care for your Mum and to make sure you kids are cared for, fed, clothed etc
> 
> To me the benefit system is there to help and assist people that fall on hard times, people that need help from the state due to health or disability issues, and it drives me mad when you see people that just sprout kids willy-nilly for no reason other than to get more money for them, you see them sat on there **** in front of the telly all day long, eating McDonalds, drinking Coca-Cola and letting teh kids go out and cause trouble, the genuine people out there that need help are losing out because of users such as this, or those of us that are genuine are being questioned about our honesty because there are liars out there!
> 
> As part of our benefit claim, we get called in periodically to make sure everything is the same, everything is still current etc, but I find that one of the most humiliating things on life, having to sit there opposite someone who treats you and speaks to you like ****, because they 'put you in a bubble' of scum like many who claim benefits, for me I am in favour of benefit caps, I am in favour of clamping down on fraud etc however, what I am not in favour of is the government just targetting everyone that claims benefits and going after them to please middle class voters, which appears to be happening!
> 
> Would I go back to my previous job? In a bloody heartbeat, without a doubt, yes my previous job was a bit crap, yes the pay wasnt great, but it gave me a sense of pride, something which no amount of benefit money can ever give you!!!


I couldn't agree more.... I take my hat of to you sir.... I have seen people's houses, those who claim benefit, with their 60" £900 LCD flat screen TV, smoking, drinking, latest mobile phones etc etc, and it makes me sick... Everyday I work hard, I put myself out etc and I'm having continuous pay cuts, my pension changed so I pay in more, work longer, and get less at the end. Although I moan I enjoy my job, I'm proud of what I do. But it winds me up when those that deserve to claim benefits, as is yourself, have to battle to achieve it, and those who play the system cos their to lazy to get out of bed, are loaded. Our government put cuts in place and allow others who have no clue to cut my wages and pension, yet they say because of the work they've done and the increase in bills and cost of living they deserve a £10,000 - £20,000 per year pay rise......

Good luck to you, I'm sure your family are very proud of you......


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## S4Steve

Agree with what James has said, I can't believe that people would tar you with the same brush, and I would like to think/hope that most people don't, I know I never would. As above really, sounds like you're doing an admirable job. Channel 4 love making these type of programs...


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## alan hanson

shouldnt have watched it knew i was going to get angry but still did, wif ejust laughed at me. couple she is 21 5 kids they get rent free and council tax paid plus 1600 a month! they then find out her other half is living with her (doesnt work looked like a ballbag and waste of space) so cut the funds she then complains she has no food to feed her children and its the governments fault!

yeh the 50" telly with sky and x box are cheap also, looking at most peeps on that video they need paying to have birth control in place, bloke 7 kids complaining......

IF YOU CANT AFFORD 7 KIDS DONT HAVE THAT MANY YOU *&[email protected]


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## Derek Mc

The biggest issue with the benefits system is that those in true genuine need seem to get least assistance and those raised on a life of scamming the system know what to say what buttons to press and how to manipulate the system.

To James_19742000 I genuinely feel for you and your position but to the 20 y/o with five kids a house and all the trimmings having never worked, we need to really sort out the benefits system to prevent this lifestyle choice!!
Pay where it is deserved and needed, withdraw where it is excess.


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## benji1205

This highlights the country that we live in unfortunately. People who contribute nothing to our society get paid to sit around drinking, watching Jeremy Kyle and smoking various substances. I know somebody who recently passed away (something that could have been stopped) because the NHS couldnt operate on him due to the lack of hospital facilities and lack of beds. By the time his operation date came around they could do nothing for him - what adds salt to the wound is that the family were advised if he was operated on sooner then it could have prolonged his life. We are cutting essential services so we can pay for immigrants and low-lifes to live a life of luxury. Unfortunately nothing will change and for that reason, if you want to escape the only way is leaving the country. The government have it planned out - I read yesterday that their salaries are increasing by an average of 15k per MP!! I know people who are working their backsides off and have had no payrise for 3 years due to the "economical state" and reading / watching such things like this really makes my blood boil. Its not even like we can stop paying tax as a nation to get the government to listen.


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## alan hanson

benji1205 said:


> pay for immigrants and low-lifes


heres the problem tiny island, limited facilities for numbers hard not to say the truth without getting in trouble.

How may eastern europeans have come over to have a family as they know they will get better care and finacial help whilst claiming benefits from back home as well.

Walking around realising your now the minority in your own back yard needs a massive clearout, but we cant possibly hurt there human rights!


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## craigeh123

James1974200 your situation is what the system does and rightly so support , it shouldn't be supporting the type of people in this show , one had a tv the size of which could rival a cinema !


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## johanr77

Yay let's blame the immigrants, have I gone through a time warp and landed in 1930's Germany or something.

Folks immigrants aren't taking jobs, they're doing jobs other people don't want. Two months ago we advertised for labour due to an increased workload, over 2/3rds of the applicants were not from this neck of the woods. Now that isn't because the wages offered were crap it was because people from this neck of the woods don't like to do hard work which earns them less than they can achieve sitting on their arses playing playstation. Immigrants aren't the problem our problem in this country happened two generations ago when the welfare state established a level of comfort and reliability that convinced people that it would make them worse off to work than to sit and claim for things that aren't bloody wrong with them. Blaming immigrants is easy and lazy, need to look a lot deeper into the problems of this country than that.


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## Darlofan

Benefits should be based on what you've paid in to the system. Someone who has worked for the last 20years should not get the same as those that have never lifted their lazy backsides off a sofa(apart from to get to Brighthouse). Should also stop benefits after 2nd child or if there is more than 2fathers. Benefits should never amount to more than min wage as well unless you've paid into the system before.


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## Willows-dad

Where I live asylum seekers are a huge problem. They're not allowed to work for at least 6 months to a year while there applications are processed. This means that a lot turn to begging, crime, and scavenging through our bins. This moulds people's ideas on immigrants and helps to increase the tension. If they're here to improve their lives let them work.


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## alan hanson

johanr77 said:


> Yay let's blame the immigrants, have I gone through a time warp and landed in 1930's Germany or something.
> 
> Folks immigrants aren't taking jobs, they're doing jobs other people don't want. Two months ago we advertised for labour due to an increased workload, over 2/3rds of the applicants were not from this neck of the woods. Now that isn't because the wages offered were crap it was because people from this neck of the woods don't like to do hard work which earns them less than they can achieve sitting on their arses playing playstation. Immigrants aren't the problem our problem in this country happened two generations ago when the welfare state established a level of comfort and reliability that convinced people that it would make them worse off to work than to sit and claim for things that aren't bloody wrong with them. Blaming immigrants is easy and lazy, need to look a lot deeper into the problems of this country than that.


agree theres too many lazy chavtastic peeps out there breeding, and i will also say the foreign peeps who do work work bloody hard etc...... BUT if there were more jobs available, then you could use the 'you wont get benefits or help unless your working' more as at the mo the jobs out there mostly go to foreign peeps which require limited education skills which the chavs dont have. so the chavs just sit back say there arent many jobs and sponge. Immigrants population is a massive problem, unless your town/city is like mine around a here during the its littered with them hanging around doing nothing, and as i said reproducing pretty quickly which we will house and pay for

if you give the lazy chavs an excuse they will use it/anything not to work


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## Rob_Quads

Stop giving out cash would be a good start. A voucher scheme where the vouchers can only be used in supermarkets etc and only for certain foods. 
Would stop people using them for buying TVs etc. No subscription services such as Sky or Mobiles should be available on a house where certain benefits are being paid. 

Small steps which would help money being used for what its designed for.


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## -Simon-

What is it with the need for the media to glorify these lifestyles....making the claimants stars of there own tv show....I've no problem with those in genuine need receiving support, for example due to poor health, or a short term period of unemployment, but as a way of life? That's taking the p**s!


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## Z4-35i

The irony is in the programme's title, as they are far from 'Skint' compared to a lot of very hard working people on low incomes with far less disposable income.


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## The Cueball

Rob_Quads said:


> Stop giving out cash would be a good start. A voucher scheme where the vouchers can only be used in supermarkets etc and only for certain foods.
> Would stop people using them for buying TVs etc. No subscription services such as Sky or Mobiles should be available on a house where certain benefits are being paid.
> 
> Small steps which would help money being used for what its designed for.


It is a good idea, one I agree with... but...but... the owners of this country will never go for it...

TV is used for dumbing down people, causing upset... and the best people to use to further this is the "have nots"...

They need them to smoke and drink as well..... in fact, they want and need most of the population to drink and smoke...

The worst thing the owners want is free, healthy people capable of constructive and logical thinking....

:thumb:


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## johanr77

Food stamps are used in the US for people on benefits and it's not exactly been a roaring success for them.

End of the day the people on benefits whether they are scumbags, junkies or decent sorts down on their luck are people. You can't force them to accept a voucher for fruit and veg if they want to buy something else to eat. You start down that road and it's a slippery slope ending up with some psycho in charge who has a dream of a totalitarian utopia and a short leash on every citizen in the country, think his name is Nick Griffin. 

The key is to convince people that life will be better if they work, contribute to the economy and bring what spews forth from their loins up in a decent way. As it stands the unemployed are becoming disenfranchised, the middle class are moaning about the unemployed and the rich are getting richer.


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## craigeh123

But people on bennefits shouldn't be able to have thevtop sky package should they ? I know this happens


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## johanr77

Personally I think there is a lack of understanding in this country as to what the benefits are for and what you can expect people to do to get them.

A lot of murmuring recently has been about forcing people to work to get their benefit cheque. Not against this idea but what do you want them to do?. I heard someone say make them sweep the streets, great but this puts the guy employed by the council out of a job. Ehm ok, right make them dig ditches, great idea this means the small civil engineering contractor now doesn't get local authority work and his men are now out of work. Ooh right, how about we make them clean the council bogs, well like the man who swept the streets you've now put someone else out of a job. 

The problem with the public perception of unemployment is that there is plenty of jobs to go around (there isn't) and everyone on benefits wants to be there (they don't). And because of that perception anyone unemployed is stigmatised and looked down upon as some kind of sponging waster. Then we get to the complaints that the immigrants are taking all the jobs (they aren't) even though anyone is able to apply for these jobs it would be a fair bet that an immigrant got it because of a keeness to do the work. So do we tar everyone who isn't working with the same brush or come up with better ways to allocate work, instead of getting people to apply for jobs in the current manner, have more work placements, if they don't work out for a couple of weeks fine get shot if they do they get a permanent contract. 

As to my position to your original issue if someone manages to budget their expenditure to allow for sky tv then good on them I don't think they should be banned from having it and I don't think that benefits should be cut to the extent that people find topping themself is a way out of abject poverty.


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## angel1449

if benifits where to be slashed or cut right down would we see a decrease in the tax we pay? no i dont think so, also ALOT of these people will think well im still not going to work so ill go into crime which puts us all at risk of crime as the crime rate will increase ten fold, im not saying its right now but just be careful what you wish for


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## The Cueball

johanr77 said:


> Personally I think there is a lack of understanding in this country as to what the benefits are for and what you can expect people to do to get them.
> 
> A lot of murmuring recently has been about forcing people to work to get their benefit cheque. Not against this idea but what do you want them to do?. I heard someone say make them sweep the streets, great but this puts the guy employed by the council out of a job. Ehm ok, right make them dig ditches, great idea this means the small civil engineering contractor now doesn't get local authority work and his men are now out of work. Ooh right, how about we make them clean the council bogs, well like the man who swept the streets you've now put someone else out of a job.
> 
> The problem with the public perception of unemployment is that there is plenty of jobs to go around (there isn't) and everyone on benefits wants to be there (they don't). And because of that perception anyone unemployed is stigmatised and looked down upon as some kind of sponging waster. Then we get to the complaints that the immigrants are taking all the jobs (they aren't) even though anyone is able to apply for these jobs it would be a fair bet that an immigrant got it because of a keeness to do the work. So do we tar everyone who isn't working with the same brush or come up with better ways to allocate work, instead of getting people to apply for jobs in the current manner, have more work placements, if they don't work out for a couple of weeks fine get shot if they do they get a permanent contract.
> 
> As to my position to your original issue if someone manages to budget their expenditure to allow for sky tv then good on them I don't think they should be banned from having it and I don't think that benefits should be cut to the extent that people find topping themself is a way out of abject poverty.


You do make good points that I agree with... but the simple fact is the streets aren't as clean as they should be, there is a load of graffiti in most towns, the roads are a shambles, the burns and waterways are minging...

So there are a load of things to do... you will not put anyone out of any work by making people do SOMETHING for their money...

They will work alongside others...

I don't see why anyone should be allowed to get money for doing nothing. especially when the money comes from people that have to work to earn it!

:lol:

:thumb:


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## Puntoboy

The Cueball said:


> You do make good points that I agree with... but the simple fact is the streets aren't as clean as they should be, there is a load of graffiti in most towns, the roads are a shambles, the burns and waterways are minging...
> 
> So there are a load of things to do... you will not put anyone out of any work by making people do SOMETHING for their money...
> 
> They will work alongside others...
> 
> I don't see why anyone should be allowed to get money for doing nothing. especially when the money comes from people that have to work to earn it!
> 
> :lol:
> 
> :thumb:


That's true. Most councils don't have enough money to employ the number of people required to do these jobs in the first place so free help would benefit them.

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2


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## johanr77

The Cueball said:


> You do make good points that I agree with... but the simple fact is the streets aren't as clean as they should be, there is a load of graffiti in most towns, the roads are a shambles, the burns and waterways are minging...
> 
> So there are a load of things to do... you will not put anyone out of any work by making people do SOMETHING for their money...
> 
> They will work alongside others...
> 
> I don't see why anyone should be allowed to get money for doing nothing. especially when the money comes from people that have to work to earn it!
> 
> :lol:
> 
> :thumb:


No that was my point, if there is work for them to do and they're willing and not going to be disruptive then fine. In Aberdeen we don't have as much of a problem with mucky streets and graffiti but yeah there are plenty of places that do and in those cases people should be asked to do the work for a fair wage.

I also don't agree that people should be given cash having never worked a day or paid any taxes in their lives. However, I also see the problems folk younger than I have getting a job and I have sympathy for some (not all) people out of work as most folk I know without a job would really like one. The problems with tv documentaries likes skint is to a degree sensationalise the subject matter to get people up in arms about it without explaining the fundamental matter of why these people are long term out of work, it's not a cut and dried they want to be but this doesn't stop some people assuming that everyone on benefits is a sponging waste of space. A lot of these people are the offspring of the steelworkers, miners and factory workers that the government decimated in the 80's did anyone at the time really think this wasn't going to bite the country in the derrier 20 years or so later. So while I agree with a lot of what you boys have to say that nobody should be getting a penny out if they didn't put in we also have to understand that many can't earn a penny to contribute because there simply isn't enough jobs to go round anymore. Unless we become a socialist haven, ditch the wheelbarrows and diggers and give everyone a job labouring like the Soviets did :devil:


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## The Cueball

I'll disagree about the "simple isn't enough jobs"

I have loads of jobs in my companies at the moment.... there is a shortage of appropriate skills and people that can string a sentence together...

Far too many idiots want a job for being able to turn up these days… mind you, some do at least wash beforehand…

One guy turned up for an interview in a tracksuit… not joking… WTF…. :lol:

There are nearly 4,000 jobs advertised on the S1 job website right now…. that could be 4,000 people off the dole…. If they had the skills and aptitude to go and get them…. It won’t solve all the unemployment.. But by your argument there should be any jobs out there… 

There are far too many families and generations of said families that expect hand outs and demand more for doing nothing…. They breed and breed and the problem just becomes worse…

And most of us accept it as “it’s a shame” and “they have it rough” or “we don’t understand”

Sorry. B0ll0xs. 

You make your own luck in life…. And you can turn anything around IF YOU WANT TO.

:thumb:


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## johanr77

I don't disagree with you Mr Ball there plenty who lack initiative and moxy but in simple terms nationally there isn't enough jobs for everyone we've got over 2 million unemployed with about 400k jobs being advertised through the job centre now if you make an assumption that as many jobs are not advertised in the job centre then there are 800k jobs for 2m people. Still short of what is necessary to get everyone to work but in reality 800k people shouldn't be on unemployment benefit and totally agree the government should be doing more about it. Some areas don't have the problems that others do Aberdeenshire is crying out for decent workers while certain parts of the country have hee haw jobs but nobody seems keen to shift to where the work is these days (apart from those immigrants everyone seems to blame).

The skills shortage is a huge problem and it's one of the reasons why the average age in certain fields like engineering is going up. What is basically required is an overhaul in benefits and who gets what and how. I don't think people should get just enough money to live off just a cheese sandwich a day I do think that benefits are a short term deal, you need them until you get another job and if that means changing career path from beautician to bog cleaner if you have to then thats life get on with it. If we can get the young folk coming out of school convinced a fruitful career with plenty of cash is ahead of them then training will go up and the skills gap will shrink but cutting off benefits entirely isn't going to work the worse elements of society will tear the country to bits. You have to come up with a system which allows those that aren't employed to live while convincing them and their children that working is by far the better option. 

I like you was trying to take on better part of 20 guys in the last couple of months, we got 7. We could have been forced to take 13 guys off the dole but some wouldn't want to be there and probably cost us money pissing about and making mistakes. 

At the end of the day it's not just the lack of jobs that is the problem, socially this country has allowed itself to become a haven for nedscum and chavs who aren't willing to do anything and that is no small part because the parents were allowed to become that before them. The sad thing is that people who do give a monkeys and want to work are effectively being outbred by those who don't give a monkeys. I shudder to think what the next generation is going to be like.


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## The Cueball

johanr77 said:


> The sad thing is that people who do give a monkeys and want to work are effectively being outbred by those who don't give a monkeys. I shudder to think what the next generation is going to be like.


I'm nodding in agreement with you... 

and the quote above is a real worry.....

What happens to all the people that don't work when the ones that do die out....???

Or put another way… are the workers going to have to start paying 80% income tax in order to pay for the non workers….

hmmmmmmm........

It's all politics and BS....

2 million unemployed, or 2m being paid to clean up and other stuff... what's the difference???

I don't mind the people that are genuinely ill or can't work... fine with them getting help and money...

Areas that have work but more people, then people need to move... again, simple... (yes, to type out)... but surely anyone with half a brain and pride would say, jeez no work in this area, lets move to where there are jobs...

Everyone who can work, but doesn't and claims money should be made to do something... this them becomes their "job", then they are no longer unemployed... I would rather pay for people to work even if it costs a little more (not sure how the minimum wage v benefit would work out), but having people working has other tangible and non tangible gains for the nation to consider... not just down to the monetary aspect...

Kind of reminds me of a thread I started almost 2 years ago now..

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=219305

:thumb:


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## johanr77

That's the issue what do the government and society do right now about the problem. The answer isn't especially simple, I have my own ideas but even they are radical enough to cause civil unrest :lol:


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## The Cueball

That’s what is required though... sorry but we have been doing the same s**t over and over and over again... it just doesn't work...

Same with the economy and money control.... same old thing, same results...

It's the definition of a mad man.... and nothing will get better, because it can’t…


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## Bartl

They even get there council tax paid for.
That must be £1000 a year.


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## johanr77

A sodding asteroid hitting the planet and the species having to rise from the ashes is the only way things will improve quickly enough. Just make sure those who get a space in the caves have a good work ethic. If only ****roaches and neds survive the species will be dead inside a year.


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## Hercs74

Look at the areas where unemployment is at its max, where crime is also high, and look at the effect it has on house prices..!!! Smother an area with disrespecting lazy thieving scum who prefer to live on benefits than do a good hard days work and look what happens.. Property de values. Areas where u work hard and society is strong and the same house cost £180+k more..!!! From the age of 15 I've worked hard.. Sweat and tears. Sometimes paid well sometimes paid pennies..!!! Now I have a nice house, 3 big bedrooms, 130 foot long garden, a good job, and 2 nice cars..!!! I still continue to work hard, so my family has a nice roof over their heads. And yes every few years we have a very big lush holiday abroad costing thousands.. But we work hard do it.. My salary pays for my big LCD tv.. I don't get benefits.....

Rant over..!!! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Deniance

Fat bloke new 3d tv, I don't care what working class people think this tv costs me 2000 through brighthouse, I pay it not them, you fat Muppet I think you'll find we do pay it, every ****ing penny


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## Kerr

Deniance said:


> Fat bloke new 3d tv, I don't care what working class people think this tv costs me 2000 through brighthouse, I pay it not them, you fat Muppet I think you'll find we do pay it, every ****ing penny


To be fair, he must have paid a lot of tax in the past.

Didn't you hear his claim his old job paid him £1400 per week? Yeah right.

Remember we've got it easy that we can just walk in to a shop and buy one of those tvs.


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## alan hanson

Kerr said:


> To be fair, he must have paid a lot of tax in the past.
> 
> Didn't you hear his claim his old job paid him £1400 per week? Yeah right.
> 
> Remember we've got it easy that we can just walk in to a shop and buy one of those tvs.


If he did earn 1400 a week where the bugger is it all? (didnt watch the programme) another problem is peeps ability to save appreciate nowadays things cost more but if peeps put a little away for hard times they wouldnt need helping handouts as much


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## willwander

johanr77 said:


> ... A lot of these people are the offspring of the steelworkers, miners and factory workers that the government decimated in the 80's ...


That's a myth, globalisation and the unions decimated theses industries, the government just put a stop to the rest of us subsidising loss making industries and union demands like being paid £1400 a week.


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## Rob_Quads

Deniance said:


> Fat bloke new 3d tv, I don't care what working class people think this tv costs me 2000 through brighthouse, I pay it not them, you fat Muppet I think you'll find we do pay it, every ****ing penny


This highlights one of the big problem. Many of them think its their money to do what they like with. Until that mindset is broken they will continue to think it


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## Billigmeister

I only have seen the last show.

I can see a lot of things that would annoy people but the bit with the ones with addictions and trying to get out of that area to avoid all the problems was important.

even the window cleaning fella who was a drunk/pillhead needed the right treatment and he would have been a lot better.

There are a good proportion of them that take the mick, but there is still a lot that will want better and struggle to get that.


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## johanr77

This kind of comes back to the problem that you can be better off on benefits. That should never ever be the case if this country doesn't make working seem a shed load more attractive than getting a benefit cheque it's a long downward spiral that I don't see us getting out of.


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## Will_G

We recently had 6 guys in to my work on a short 8 day introduction into oil & gas. They'd been trained at one of the centres up here before going on placement. We moved them round various departments two at a time, I trained them for a couple of days in what I do. They werent from the greatest of backgrounds but this was given as a chance for them to prove themselves. They werent paid when here but they got all their expenses paid and lunch etc to help them out a bit. All going well until the last pair were coming to me on Monday and one didnt turn up. Got to the presentation event today to find out he'd been asking the apprentices what they were getting paid and realised he was better off sitting at home doing nothing and getting his benefits for him and his two kids than going out to work so he didnt bother completing the course. I dont know his exact age but this is a guy between 16-25.


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## Billigmeister

Will

without prying to much - once the apprenticeship is completed would they give themselves a decent chance of earning a decent wage?


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## alan hanson

will_g said:


> we recently had 6 guys in to my work on a short 8 day introduction into oil & gas. They'd been trained at one of the centres up here before going on placement. We moved them round various departments two at a time, i trained them for a couple of days in what i do. They werent from the greatest of backgrounds but this was given as a chance for them to prove themselves. They werent paid when here but they got all their expenses paid and lunch etc to help them out a bit. All going well until the last pair were coming to me on monday and one didnt turn up. Got to the presentation event today to find out he'd been asking the apprentices what they were getting paid and realised he was better off sitting at home doing nothing and getting his benefits for him and his two kids than going out to work so he didnt bother completing the course. I dont know his exact age but this is a guy between 16-25.


more expecting it on a plate to earn good money you have to do exactly that eran it (unless your lucky enough not to have to and land on your feet) progression takes time and commitment but the rewards are there to reward peeps who put the effort in.


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## Will_G

Billigmeister said:


> Will
> 
> without prying to much - once the apprenticeship is completed would they give themselves a decent chance of earning a decent wage?


Yeah they would have a decent wage, chance of overtime and offshore work as a pipe fitter. The guy was obviously just looking short term.

Problem as well is there were 90 people who applied to be on the whole course of which I think 12 got through to the final stages and on to placements and he has robbed someone of the chance of really trying to progress.

By all means our company probably isnt going to take all 5 on but it gave them a flavour of different parts of the industry and we're having a meeting to discuss whether to take some of them on next week.


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## LittleMissTracy

I never watch these types of programes as I get worked up.
I'm 3 weeks younger than my cousin. When we were kids we were like sisters but when she was 16 she did a YTS and probably thought at that point working was not for her.
Me I went to college to potentually go to uni
at 18 she was having a baby to a guy she knew for a week,
I was prepping my exams to get in to uni
At 19 she's a mum
I hated uni and got a FT job instead and have worked a vary of jobs since
She moved from council house to council house on benifits with her fella and little boy
BF and I bought a house together

Now last year BF got made redundant and only got Jobseekers for 6 months and then he got nothing, in all that time from having her baby she's not held down a job or has worked on the side.

In January she anounced she's to be a grandmother, her son is in college, how is he and partner to support a family? Apple didn't fall to far from the tree there. But I would like to add that at no point was she a bad mother in the way she brought him up, he was a great kid, really polite, funny and kind, not too bright though, he just chose this path at 19. But time will tell about him.

It was also mention prev on her about someone careing and being on benefits, that is what the system is for. My Dad had a stoke at 41 in 1982, I was 8, he ended up on all sorts of benefits till he died 9 years later, and he said that he was on more money on benefits than when he was grafting, but he would be glad to take less money to be able, be back to his normal self and play with his kids. That is the type of things that benefits are for.

And poverty, my definition and the governments are two very different things


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## DampDog

LittleMissTracy said:


> I never watch these types of programes as I get worked up.


Likewise this type of program just winds me up. I can't even watch 'Shameless" because it's a little too much like a documentary for my taste.


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## Ross

I remember dad having a slipped disk about 12 years ago,he was off work for 12 months on incapacity benefit which turned out to be better than working so its no wonder so many don't bother working.


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