# Po85rd = sf4500?



## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

I've read a lot about Menzerna polish name but i'm still confused.
I'm looking for the ultra-finest polish in the menz range to jewel a soft paint after 106FA and it should be PO85RD.
In the US PO85RD is now called SF4500 but i can't find this polish in the UK market. Many have in stock PO85RE (SF4000) but also 106FA is SF4000. CYC sell FF3000 as PO85RD.

Where i can find this polish?


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

I bought SF4500 from Autogeek . I feel SF4500 comes with stronger smell than old PO85rd . btw I bought 
Menzerna Micro Polish 87MC , gives more cutting ability with great finish but the smell not nice.


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

Here John @ PB says that RD is the older versione of RE and here Tim @ CYC says the opposite.


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

Menzerna USA is more clear 


PG 1000 – Power Gloss Compound (S34A) 

SI 1500 – Super Intensive Polish (PO83)

IP 2000 – Intensive Polish (PO91E)

PF 2500 – Power Finish Polish (PO203)

Menzerna Micro Polish PO 87MC 32 oz

FF 3000 – Final Finish Polish (PO85U)

SF 4000 – Super Finish Polish (PO106FA)

SF 4500 – Super Finish Polish (PO85RD)


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

Is 85RE finer than 106FA? Would i notice any difference?


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## toni (Oct 30, 2005)

It it said that 85RD and 106FA contain the same abrasives but in different quantities, so the gloss is the same but with different cutting strengths.
Probably the same goes for 85RE, it will have slightly less cut than 106FA but I doubt you'll see any difference in gloss levels.


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## bero1306 (Jan 24, 2011)

PB sell SF4000 as 85RE.

http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/menzerna-85re.html


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

toni said:


> It it said that 85RD and 106FA contain the same abrasives but in different quantities, so the gloss is the same but with different cutting strengths.
> Probably the same goes for 85RE, it will have slightly less cut than 106FA but I doubt you'll see any difference in gloss levels.


I guess that trying it is only way to tell if i can see any difference in the reflection, jeweling the paint with a finer polish after 106FA.



bero1306 said:


> PB sell SF4000 as 85RE.
> 
> http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/menzerna-85re.html


I've found that many seller (PB, Elite, i4detail, and others) have in stock 85RE as SF4000, CYC is the only who stock 85RD but it is FF3000 instead of SF4500. 
Probably there is not a perceptible difference in gloss between SF4000, SF 4500 and FF3000.


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## bero1306 (Jan 24, 2011)

They changed the labels to make it easier but have failed imo. :wall:
I also dont understand why sellers have 2 versions of PF2500 & SF4000 when Menzerna seem to have it different.


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## 7MAT (Apr 14, 2006)

bero1306 said:


> They changed the labels to make it easier but have failed imo. :wall:
> I also dont understand why sellers have 2 versions of PF2500 & SF4000 when Menzerna seem to have it different.


Totally agree that Menzerna have failed with the new label system.

Why they don't have a unique label for each product is beyond me, currently Menzerna Germany are using the same 'SF4000' labels for both 'PO 85 RE5' and 'PO 106FA' which even features the same GTIN-13 barcode number :wall:

Not only that but many orders are delivered with the wrong labels, see here;
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=237250

Because of this we now produce our own labels to clearly identify the Menzerna stock we sell.

Regards

Matt


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

It's a complete mess for both seller and buyers. Is there something from a different maker comparable to 85RD/RE that has less cut than 106FA?


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

ercapoccia said:


> It's a complete mess for both seller and buyers. Is there something from a different maker comparable to 85RD/RE that has less cut than 106FA?


It is a bit of a mess; on bottles bought from us, we recommend ignoring the Menzerna labels and instead, just follow the extra label we put onto the bottle and cross reference from our site.

From a different manufacturer, I'd go with Wolf's WP-1N or WP-2N. Both very nice polishes, very fine cut, massive gloss levels.


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

John @ PB said:


> From a different manufacturer, I'd go with Wolf's WP-1N or WP-2N. Both very nice polishes, very fine cut, massive gloss levels.


Did you read my mind? :thumb:

Christmas is next and my GF gave to me 150£ bonus for detailing goodies


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

ercapoccia said:


> Did you read my mind? :thumb:
> 
> Christmas is next and my GF gave to me 150£ bonus for detailing goodies


Either will be great; 1N is very, very fine, really for maximum gloss, 2N has a little more cut but still a very high gloss.

(I'd not use 106FA on Alfa paint; the paint's too soft for the abrasives. 85RE would be better).


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

85RE for removing swirls? 205 would be more suitable?


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

ercapoccia said:


> I've read a lot about Menzerna polish name but i'm still confused.
> I'm looking for the ultra-finest polish in the menz range to jewel a soft paint after 106FA and it should be PO85RD.
> In the US PO85RD is now called SF4500 but i can't find this polish in the UK market. Many have in stock PO85RE (SF4000) but also 106FA is SF4000. CYC sell FF3000 as PO85RD.


Thats the American label for PO85RD thats all, it's FF3000 you need. In Europe and UK, PO85RD is labelled as FF3000. It's the finest finishing polish Menzerna do so the perfect one to jewl a soft paint.

Why they labelled it that way I've no idea as it is confusing!


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

ercapoccia said:


> Here John @ PB says that RD is the older versione of RE and here Tim @ CYC says the opposite.


It's not really a case of being newer or older (although PO85RD was released shortly after RE) as they are slightly different products.

In levels of cut Menzerna put PO85RE in the middle between P0106FA and PO85RD. Technically the absolute finest finishing polish Menzerna produce is the PO85RD (FF3000) so ideal for jewelling softer paint.


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## bero1306 (Jan 24, 2011)

Just seen a Menzerna chart that stated UF5000 was PO85RD.


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

ercapoccia said:


> 85RE for removing swirls? 205 would be more suitable?


On very soft paint (Alfa) it'll remove a good portion of swirls, but I'd go to 203S next, rather than 106FA.

It's not the level of cut such much the type of abrasives. 203S breaks down more easily than 106FA and on soft paints, is a nicer/easier polish to use.


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## bero1306 (Jan 24, 2011)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/722/NewMenzernaPackaging01.jpg


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

John @ PB said:


> On very soft paint (Alfa) it'll remove a good portion of swirls, but I'd go to 203S next, rather than 106FA.
> 
> It's not the level of cut such much the type of abrasives. 203S breaks down more easily than 106FA and on soft paints, is a nicer/easier polish to use.


Thanks for your help is much appreciate. 
I've a very limited experience with different paint and polish as i've worked only on Fiat and Alfa with ZPC, 106FA, 3.02 and G1. 
I own 3 Alfa, one 166 metallic black, one 147 solid red black solid roof a MiTo solid red black solid roof and a Grande Punto metallic red. I can't say if they are soft or medium, i can only say that the MiTo solid red is much much softer than 147 solid red. They have a different color code AR289 the MiTo and AR289A the 147.

Probably also 3.02 is not good for soft paint, is it?

I'll have to spend more time working in the garage and less reading the forum.


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

I'd only use 3.02 on intermediate or hard paint. 

The abrasives are too robust and aggressive for soft paint. 

Obviously paints can vary, but the best bet is to assume a car has soft paint and work up. 

Experience with Alfa paint (my wife used to have a red 156) is that it's really pretty soft. 

I'd be using 85RE, 203S or Wolf's WP-1N and/or 2N depending on the level of defects etc.


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

My wish list is growing.


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

lol another Menz thread, I HATE menz labelling and will be selling my sample pack soon and buying Wolf's, just due to their naff labelling.


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## cleaningfreak (Sep 3, 2011)

hmm, im confused as well ... in PB site is written that 85 RE cut level 2/10 in i4d 4/10 and i4d is 85 RE 5 ...  so which is which ? i need some of them but im confused ... i want use this after gtechniq P1 ( well i want to compare gloss finish ) ... so thinking which to buy .. HELP :wall:


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

You want my help?

DO NOT BUY MENZ, THE LABELLING ISN'T WORTH THE HASSLE

BUY WOLF'S 

Sorry about the caps but I think Menz labelling is a embarresment to a professional company and it annoys me big stylee


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## bero1306 (Jan 24, 2011)

ant_s said:


> You want my help?
> 
> DO NOT BUY MENZ, THE LABELLING ISN'T WORTH THE HASSLE
> 
> ...


Just because the labels are crap does not make the polish crap. Prob the best out there imo.
Really stupid reason not to buy.


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

cleaningfreak said:


> hmm, im confused as well ... in PB site is written that 85 RE cut level 2/10 in i4d 4/10 and i4d is 85 RE 5 ...  so which is which ? i need some of them but im confused ... i want use this after gtechniq P1 ( well i want to compare gloss finish ) ... so thinking which to buy .. HELP :wall:


In terms of gloss, 85RE is right up there: we rate it 10/10 for gloss. As for cut, we base everything on our testing and usage.



The actual Menzerna labels are a bit of a disaster but if you follow our additional labels there's no real issue.



bero1306 said:


> Prob the best out there imo.


Menzerna are certainly, in most cases, our default polish. They just work, we know what to expect from them, there's minimal drop back and the range is nice and broad; there's a polish for pretty much every task.


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## cleaningfreak (Sep 3, 2011)

John @ PB said:


> In terms of gloss, 85RE is right up there: we rate it 10/10 for gloss. As for cut, we base everything on our testing and usage.


ou yes.. understood 
p.s any discount for dw members ? :lol: 
p.p.s so i4d 85RE 5 its exactly identical to yours 85RE ?


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

cleaningfreak said:


> ou yes.. understood
> p.s any discount for dw members ? :lol:
> p.p.s so i4d 85RE 5 its exactly identical to yours 85RE ?


We don't do DW discount codes but how about Free Shipping with no minimum spend?

I don't know; but I do know our 85RE is 85RE and it performs as we describe.


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## cleaningfreak (Sep 3, 2011)

John @ PB said:


> We don't do DW discount codes but how about Free Shipping with no minimum spend?
> 
> I don't know; but I do know our 85RE is 85RE and it performs as we describe.


thanks for everything
P.s if free delivery works on next day with DHL ( thats what i ordered ) Yes , i would b more than happy  but if no, then no ... no hard feelings:thumb:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

ant_s said:


> You want my help?
> 
> DO NOT BUY MENZ, THE LABELLING ISN'T WORTH THE HASSLE
> 
> ...


Um, that's why they went to new numbering system!!!


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

To make it more fun the used different number for the same product in different country. 
FF3000 is PO85U in US and PO85RD in UK. PO85RD is called SF4500 in US. That is what i've understood, but it is actually very complicate.


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

bero1306 said:


> Just because the labels are crap does not make the polish crap. Prob the best out there imo.
> Really stupid reason not to buy.


Nope, not a stupid reason to buy it's my opinion. I do detailing for fun and a hobby, I want to make my life easy and just able to pick a product up knowing what it is, and what i'm getting from it.

The (old) menz labelling is an utter crap, the amount of times i've read a thread were people have used a menz polish and I have no idea at all what cut there getting, yes I know that's thick of me but a hobby to me isn't like doing homework.

I buy a product for the whole package, the packaging, the ease of use, the result's, how well they represent themselves. 3M easy colourcoded, wolf's simple names 



type[r]+ said:


> Um, that's why they went to new numbering system!!!


Yeah, that is much better but with people still refering to them as the old system it's crap, when the old bottles have all dwindled it should be much easier.


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

It's really hard to use the new numbering system when different polish have the same name
PO85RD3.02 and PO203S are SF2500 
PO106FA and PO85RE5 are SF4000
PO85RD is FF3000 in UK and SF4500 in US
PO85U is FF3000 in US

The new labeling system is actually impossible to be used.


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

PO85RD is UF5000 in Australia 
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=2856700&postcount=52


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

I've found this chart about the new labeling system

http://www.menzerna.com/fileadmin/be_user/Dokumente/Product_overview_polish.pdf


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## 7MAT (Apr 14, 2006)

cleaningfreak said:


> hmm, im confused as well ... in PB site is written that 85 RE cut level 2/10 in i4d 4/10 and i4d is 85 RE 5 ...  so which is which ? i need some of them but im confused ... i want use this after gtechniq P1 ( well i want to compare gloss finish ) ... so thinking which to buy .. HELP :wall:


We base our cut level on Menzerna's published info, PB I believe base it on there own findings and yes both products are the same. The full code is 'PO 85 RE 5'.


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