# Rotary Compounding – Is It Dead?



## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

Rotary Compounding - Is It Dead? Todd Cooperider /Kevin Brown/ Peachstate Detail LLC Online
Todd Cooperider Online | The voice of the highline detailing industry


----------



## Paddy_R (Jan 10, 2007)

Good read that. I think I'll be investing in the Meguiars system at the start of next years show season (bit late for this years). I had been thinking if retiring my Porter Cable D/A but it looks like it will be getting a few more years use out of it. Great article.


----------



## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

An excellent read.:thumb:


----------



## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Nice article but the one big advantage the rotary will always have over the DA machine is the lack of vibration. 

I know of at least one Professional Detailer suffering from Carpal Tunnel syndrome as a result of many years polishing with a DA. 

For us hobby detailers it shouldn't be an issue long term but for the Pro's it could be.

I certainly don't think the rotary is anywhere near the end of the road and with practice, and the correct polish, a rotary can provide a superior, hologram free finish. :thumb:

Just my 2c!

Alan W


----------



## Auto Detox (Dec 22, 2007)

Interesting read


----------



## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

the vibration aspect is something that will never appeal to me tbh either i find i get a much smoother action with a rotary than i ever could achieve with a DA.

But the industry "appears" to be going that way.


----------



## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

I have been saying and doing this for a while, the rotary will be seen as old hat before long, it is already in my eyes, a da with more grunt than the das-6 pro will put the last nail in the coffin for rotarys :thumb:


----------



## Todd Cooperider (May 1, 2011)

Look at that...my articles are finding their way across the pond!


----------



## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

I'll stick to compounding with the rotary unless it's sticky paint as I still find I can get better correction, I also tend to get numb/sore hands after prolonged DA use (now wear anti-vibration gloves as a result). The MF system is very good but it's no replacement for my Makita.


----------



## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

dennis said:


> I have been saying and doing this for a while, the rotary will be seen as old hat before long, it is already in my eyes, a da with more grunt than the das-6 pro will put the last nail in the coffin for rotarys :thumb:


I don't think it will, rotaries are not only easier to use and provide better results faster they're getting smaller, lighter and more powerful, likethe ep800, added to the fact you feel like you've got parkinsons after using a da they'll be around for a long while.


----------



## *MAGIC* (Feb 22, 2007)

Clark @ PB said:


> I'll stick to compounding with the rotary unless it's sticky paint as I still find I can get better correction, I also tend to get numb/sore hands after prolonged DA use (now wear anti-vibration gloves as a result). The MF system is very good but it's no replacement for my Makita.


+1 for the big Mak :thumb:


----------



## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

bigmc said:


> I don't think it will, rotaries are not only easier to use and provide better results faster they're getting smaller, lighter and more powerful, likethe ep800, added to the fact you feel like you've got parkinsons after using a da they'll be around for a long while.


another good impressive summary from you there.


----------



## P.A.D (Jun 26, 2008)

dennis said:


> I have been saying and doing this for a while, the rotary will be seen as old hat before long, it is already in my eyes, a da with more grunt than the das-6 pro will put the last nail in the coffin for rotarys :thumb:


Not a chance.

I know guy's in the Bodywork game that suffer terribly from years of abuse at the hands of a DA.

Why would you want one with more grunt?

Rotaries are still here and still do a better job in far less time.


----------



## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

Todd Cooperider said:


> Look at that...my articles are finding their way across the pond!


we joined the internet age just for this.


----------



## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

I am not saying that you cannot get better results with a rotary, i have been paint correcting since the mid 90's but for compounding work i use my da and by doing so i spend a less time of the refining stages, if i posted up half a dozen pics you would not tell the difference between a da finish from a rotary finish ? for the extra bit of bling whilst refining yeah the rotary will come out barring that the difference in finish in minimal and means nothing to jo public. 
For one day corrections the da is a winner and the future imo. The da lacks on power and smoothness and thats it. time will tell


----------



## P.A.D (Jun 26, 2008)

dennis said:


> I am not saying that you cannot get better results with a rotary, i have been paint correcting since the mid 90's but for compounding work i use my da and by doing so i spend a less time of the refining stages, if i posted up half a dozen pics you would not tell the difference between a da finish from a rotary finish ? for the extra bit of bling whilst refining yeah the rotary will come out barring that the difference in finish in minimal and means nothing to jo public.
> For one day corrections the da is a winner and the future imo. The da lacks on power and smoothness and thats it. time will tell


Using rotaries since the mid 90s.

Phew, Remember how heavy they were?

Still prefer the rotary to a DA but hey, everyone to there own.


----------



## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

Todd Cooperider said:


> Look at that...my articles are finding their way across the pond!


What does www. stand for again?


----------



## DE 1981 (Aug 17, 2007)

Great article from true detailing professionals and masters in the industry. These guys are really the only people I take notice of these days, kinda fed up of some of the ego monkeys on here who think there the best thing since sliced bread.


----------



## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Thanks for your reply Todd! 

Whilst I agree the advancements made by Meguiar's are significant, including the safety offered by using a DA for heavy paint correction, the inherent vibration of an oscillating random orbit machine is going to be a much tougher nut to crack!

Alan W


----------



## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

I really think the da system is a means to get an "ok" correction level to people who aren't too experienced in machine polishing. I really dont see that many advantages over rotary correction. 
By this, I'm not saying all you can get is an "ok" finish with this system. You can get a 100% perfect finish with this but it offers my personally no advantages. 


As a person who works on paint pretty much everyday, I no longer have problems of rotary plus wool pad leaving awful holograms etc in paint. I know my paints, I know my compounds and can finish them down very very well. If I was unable to do heavy correction and finish down well in one polishing step, I'd be all over the DA system

Without sounding ****y, my makita and wool pad is like an extension of my own body now and when it comes to ceramic paint with SEVERE defects, there is no better tool. 

I might be able to get the same finish with the DA system but I guarantee that after the first pass the rotary will leave me a better finish in terms of correction. AND... If I got the same level of defect removal with the DA, my hands would be beaten to ****e. I take occupational hazards like vibration white finger very seriously and would not want to fully correct a car day in day out with the D/A system. 

Very good product and a big leap in detailing but not a game changer for me, but has a place i the market.


----------



## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

Interesting read.


----------



## Racer (Oct 27, 2005)

Clark @ PB said:


> I'll stick to compounding with the rotary unless it's sticky paint as I still find I can get better correction, I also tend to get numb/sore hands after prolonged DA use (now wear anti-vibration gloves as a result). The MF system is very good but it's no replacement for my Makita.


100% Agree with you and i prefer the finish from rotary , IMHO :thumb:


----------



## awallacee30 (May 4, 2011)

Speaking from a relative novices point of view, I haven't been using a rotary all that long, only started earlier this year. Comparing the two, I would much rather carry on using my rotary then going back to the DA.

All that vibration cannot be good for your hands and wrists in the long run. I get a tingling/pins and needles type feeling in my hand if I use my DA for extended periods. Think I would rather spend that bit longer compounding and refining with the rotary then sacrifice my hands/wrists for a quicker correction.


----------



## Kelly @ KDS (Aug 4, 2008)

Rotary

simples :thumb:

kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


----------



## dooka (Aug 1, 2006)

I don't think you will ever reach the high gloss level with a DA than you do with a rotary. I will be sticking with my rotary for speed, easy of getting the job done and gloss levels..

I will always keep a DA for certain paints and sealing duties..


----------



## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

I too prefer rotary, but there's no way that I could have got the finish that I did, in the time that I did on the Lupo that I did last weekend, with a rotary. I tried it, with S17 and SSP and it needed refining. Megs 105 was the same, but to be fair, I am ineperienced with, and therefore did not try, wool.

The Megs system gave me a damn near perfect finish, which needed no refining, in a very short space of time.

However, my hands and wrists took a severe battering, so if I were a Pro, I'd be sticking to rotary.


----------



## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

What about these airline DA sanders- do they still have the major vibration issue (the one fatal flaw in the DA being better than the rotary)??


----------



## P.A.D (Jun 26, 2008)

amiller said:


> What about these airline DA sanders- do they still have the major vibration issue (the one fatal flaw in the DA being better than the rotary)??


A lot smoother IMO.

Need a decent compreesor though and they seem to be single speed. (Fast)

Mirka do a nice air orbital.


----------



## Ti22 (Mar 24, 2009)

No Way.. if I used a DA day in and day out like a rotary then my fingers would fall off. 

I'm staying rotary.. and for ultimate finish I don't think a DA can touch it.


----------



## Spirit Detailing (Mar 29, 2007)

*Your Dragon Style is no match for my Tiger-Crane Style. *










Joking aside.... There will always be a need for Rotaries, but polishes and polishing styles keep developing. For a professional detailer, time is money, so you should be adapting to keep up with the most efficient ways of creating the very best finish you can with whatever machine and pad system you need. Profit is the King!!


----------



## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Exactly!

Todd does say that he still uses a rotary to finish tbf... he's suggesting that heavy compounding is more effective via DA, and from what I've seen, I agree!


----------



## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

I think you can get 99% of the finish with a DA on the majority of paints if you choose the right polish,pad and technique - it's just much more comfortable with a rotary and it's much more sympathetic towards your hands and fingers!


----------



## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

Theres a place for both and whwile one prefers a rotary another will prefer to use a DA,different strokes and all that.

Both will always be around,it isnt vhs vs betamax :lol:


----------



## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

The 'debate' isn't DA vs Rotary though, it's DA with MF vs Rotary.

Say on a VW, with hard paint, can you get the same level of finish, in the same amount of time, using a rotary, compared to what can be achieved using the new Megs MF system?

I tried on a Lupo last week, and no combo I tried via Rotary gave me a finish that was either i) not putting its own marks into the paint or ii) removing all of the defects in a single set.

The MF system gave me a finish which I felt was very, VERY nearly LSP ready, in a single set, with NO dust and NO sling. Remember this is HEAVY swirling on a black VW.

Surely that's significant, a 'game changer'? Then there's the 'levelling' properties which DaveKG has demonstrated...


----------



## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

RussZS said:


> The 'debate' isn't DA vs Rotary though, it's DA with MF vs Rotary.
> 
> Say on a VW, with hard paint, can you get the same level of finish, in the same amount of time, using a rotary, compared to what can be achieved using the new Megs MF system?
> 
> ...


A valid point Russ and one i overlooked in my answer,having used both to good effect i will agree that the mf brings the da right into the slipstream of rotaries when you consider what can be achieved ,particularly in a short time span with regard correction.
I just feel that the rotary still has the edge and although the mf system can and will be used on a vast number of jobs inplace of the rotary i still feel theres a place for both so to answer again the op,or at least the op quoting todd coop' no the rotary isnt dead and never will be imo as it gives that little bit more imo.
in saying that though i only use the mf system now and have done for months but not in a pro capacity as i no longer need to so i think what you may see us all the hobbyist semi pros etc adopting this and this alone as there weapon of choice as it CAN achieve what most are looking for in a finish:thumb:

Just to add i think its a great system the da mf kit and ive put a link to a post i did a while back after my first limited use of it,obviously having mastered it it can achieve much more than i first though.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=211274


----------



## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

I love Todds articles as well as kevin brown's. Two amazing men willing to share their knowledge with us. Thanks guys.

My methodology is - For Orange peel removal and Jewelling - I bring out the Rotary.
paint correction (no peel removal or after doing that) - The Flex DA with Surbuf and or megs MF discs then foam for the optimum result.

I bring out the makita BO6030 (no vibration) random orbital at Speed 5 (10,000 OPM then back to 4,000 OPM) with surbuf or MF discs to correct soft paints, 2500 to 4000 grit sanding marks, paints in good to average condition and of course for the final step of jewelling to guarantee my best result and a hologram/swirl free finish 
I love all three types of power tool and will continue to use them and in 2012, test out the buff Pro Linear polisher


----------



## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

That reads as if its some sort of Meguires marketing blurb to try and drive sales


----------



## Spirit Detailing (Mar 29, 2007)

Dream Machines said:


> I love Todds articles as well as kevin brown's. Two amazing men willing to share their knowledge with us. Thanks guys.
> 
> My methodology is - For Orange peel removal and Jewelling - I bring out the Rotary.
> paint correction (no peel removal or after doing that) - The Flex DA with Surbuf and or megs MF discs then foam for the optimum result.
> ...


The Flex OR is a great machine, but man it is so loud!! Will be interested in hearing what you think about the Buff-Pro (from your conversations with Bud - never mind Buffer Bill!) Its a peculiar machine, but I don't know if its a step in the right direction. More like a lateral step and my feeling is that if I bought one, it will be another machine left on the shelf to gather dust.


----------



## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

[Meguiar's DA Microfiber Cutting Discs - this system was designed primarily for light to moderate defect removal from OEM paint. _This system is not intended to be used in body shops, nor is it a replacement for a traditional approach to remove sanding marks using a rotary buffer, a wool pad and an aggressive cutting compound. _ [Italics mine]

The market sector aimed at is the detailing shops specializing in volume-based paint rejuvenation. Meguiar's DA Microfiber Cutting Discs are made for maximum efficiency. Their engineered foam interface offers controlled conformability. As you move the polisher over the paint, the microfibers adapt to the curves and contours of the paint, distributing the abrasives evenly for efficient cutting.]


----------



## Spirit Detailing (Mar 29, 2007)

Just while we are on the subject of MF cutting pads, I haven't used them yet but I am wondering what sort of life-span they have? I imagine on a DA they last well but they are expensive for me to ship in. How many cars or worktime do you get from them....


----------



## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

Has anyone ever taken apart a DA to see if anything could be done to help with the vibration


----------



## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

lowejackson said:


> Has anyone ever taken apart a DA to see if anything could be done to help with the vibration


Vibration is inherent in any machine that *oscillates in a random orbit* rather than just rotates about a fixed centre like the rotary.

The greater the offset the greater the vibration, in theory at least.

Whilst it might be possible to dampen the vibration to a certain extent, eg via a counterweight, it will always be present.

Alan W


----------



## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

As with most things, technology will move on :thumb:


----------



## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

Good article.

You can;t use a DA day in day out, HAVs and Carpel Tunnel is a serious danger from them.

Rotary will always be about.


----------



## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

Alan W said:


> Vibration is inherent in any machine that *oscillates in a random orbit* rather than just rotates about a fixed centre like the rotary.
> 
> The greater the offset the greater the vibration, in theory at least.
> 
> ...


I take your point, the DA by its very nature will vibrate but if the vibrations can be reduced say be decoupling or dampening then it will help reduce the unpleasant impact of vibration into the hands.

I seem to be a very sensitive soul when it comes to vibrations as after half an hour, my fingers and hands become numb when I used my PC whereas others can cope with very long sessions


----------



## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

lowejackson said:


> I seem to be a very sensitive soul when it comes to vibrations as after half an hour, my fingers and hands become numb when I used my PC whereas others can cope with very long sessions


Try and beg/borrow/steal a DAS 6 Pro (850w) because I am pleasantly surprised by the low level of vibration compared with the regular DAS 6, PC7424, UDM etc. 

Alan W


----------



## Spirit Detailing (Mar 29, 2007)

Guys, if the DA is making you sore, you are not holding it right. 

I've had no problems ever. I grip with my little finger and simply control with the other fingers. Same as holding a bokken or sword. You will have a better more comfortable grip but less tense and less likely to suffer strain injury. 

If you try to hold a bokken, gripping hard with all fingers then impacts will be really painful and it will get knocked out of your hand. Same with a baseball bat (lol, honestly I did softball for a while - not muggings!!). Grip it really tight and your hands feel crushed when you hit the ball. 

I never thought of mentioning it here before, but correct machine grip and correct posture is vital for any professional detailer. You get injured hands, knees or backs and you're not a detailer any more!!


----------



## scooby73 (Mar 20, 2007)

An excellent read.:thumb:


----------



## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

i remember getting my PC7424 from the US, and spending a whole weekend using it on my red vauxhall combo van, and holy crap did i have sore hands / arms for a few days after. only a few weeks later i had a makita, i cant see myself wanting the tingly fingers again tbh :lol:

that said, i DO want to try the MF system, certainly interesting


----------



## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

Remember ordering mine from autopia too years ago. Haha I thought it was awesome!


----------



## Japz (Apr 13, 2011)

bigmc said:


> I don't think it will, rotaries are not only easier to use and provide better results faster they're getting smaller, lighter and more powerful, likethe ep800, added *to the fact you feel like you've got parkinsons after using a da* they'll be around for a long while.


lol
:lol:
I Agree!!!


----------

