# DA Heavy Correction Head to Head: Meguiars Microfibre System vs. Menzerna on Foam



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

The new Meguiars microfibre DA correction system is getting more and more air time now as the system is being used by more people and the same messages seem to be coming out - speed of correction and the movement of the level of correction capable in given times by DA. So we thought it was about time to challenge the Meguiars system in a head to head with how we would have corrected by DA before it existed! To see what the differences really are 

So - take one Mercedes blue bonnet, and marr it with a brush and some grit, and a key to set the challenge:














































I think this sets the heavy correction challenge quite well - 2000 grit sanding marks, grit brush and deep RDS inflicted by a key, so a wide variety of severe marring to sort out.

*Menzerna S100 Power Gloss on DRC1000 Yellow Cutting Pad*

Traditionally, working by DA, heavy correction would be achieved using a cutting foam pad such as the DRC1000 Yellow, and an aggressive compound. Chosen here is Menzerna S100 Power Gloss, in our experience, Menzerna compounds seem to have the edge on a DA, the abrasives seem to suit the oscillating motion of the machine more than those of Fast Cut for example. The video below shows a typical correction set with Menzerna on foam, Gordon using speed 2 to spread and working up to speed 5 - 5.5 on the DAS-6 Pro and using moderate pressure to achieve the correction:






Note: fast passes at slow speed to spread and then slow hand movements with the machine while breaking the compound down and an overall work time of circa 5 minutes.

This achieved the following results, first of all viewed under the striplight and the camera focussed on the paint surface to give a true indication of the level of correction of the deeper marks and RDS (look for the X marks the spot  ):





































The Power Gloss seems to have dealt very well with the deep RDS, with little evidence of being there, however the paint still haze a hazy small peel effect to it, so the clarity is not great. Still to be refined of course. Under the Sun Gun:





































The finish looks good in terms of correction, with very little of any of the defects left (yes, a DA can correct by foam  ). A hazyness under the light is to be expected from the cutting compound and pad combo, and will be refined. This sets the bar very high for the new system, as this set does show just how capable a DA with cutting foam can be!

*Meguiars Correction Compound on Meguiars DA Microfibre Cutting Pad*

So, with the bar set high, the new microfibre cutting pad and cutting compound were used to challenge it. The video below shows a typical set, longer than recommended by Meguairs in terms of passes and at 3.5 minutes this was pretty much the longest sets we would go for on the basis of what the product was achieving and the lack of any benefits of working longer. We will be investigating the effects of water to revive the product and comparing the set times in a later test, but this is how it was performing most strongly for us so far so we used this for the test. Spread at speed 2, and then worked at speeds 4 - 5 on a G220 V2. Note in the video the very slow hand movements (slower than with the foam) and the heavier pressure being used with the microfibre pads which we saw giving benefits in terms of correction:






The end results of this, assessed first of all using the strip lights:





































Interestingly here, in terms of the RDS we saw less correction than with foam! You can see the X more clearly, but what we also saw was the hazy small peel effect was better removed by the microfibre as if the microfibre system is better at "re-levelling" the paint while actually removing a little less paint than an aggressive foam combination. The correction is not greater, but rather is is of a different style. Under the Sun Gun:





































Correction here is excellent, most of the defects are removed and the only remaining were the deeper RDS. Again, this re-levelling shows as the finish seems to have greater clarity straight after this correction compound stage and the shorter sets would be a time saver.

*Clarity Comparison*

To investigate this idea a little further, we tried to show by photographs the differences in clarity we were seeing by eye between the Menzerna and Meguiars sides. First of all the Menzerna side:



















and the Meguiars side:



















Arugably, the clarity on the Megiuars side seems to be superior with a sharper and clearer reflection being given. The Meguiars compounds seem to product a slightly sharper finish by making the paint more level than the Menzerna and foam combo which removed more paint to remove the deeper marks more successfully. The correction style is different, both effective but for deeper marks, foam still seems to be in front but for clarity, general correction and saving time, Meguiars has got the edge.

*Refining - Menzerna PO106FA on Hexlogic White Polishing Pad*

You may wonder why we are not using Menzerna's finest polish (85RD/E) on a finishing pad here, but given the compound marring left it was decided to refine in two stages for a fair test to the microfibre system and to ensure compound marring is removed is is necessary to use the much more flexible 106FA on a polishing pad... Knowing that when used correctly, 106FA can finish down beautifully, we were happy to use this but are aware that the use of a polishing pad may be bettered with another set using a finishing pad (see end of test  ).

So - following the refinement:



















Looking a bit sharper. Allowing the camera to auto focus:










And with manual focus to focus on the paint surface for a true assessment of the levels of correction:



















and under the Sun Gun to check marring removed, and again to assess clarity. If you are wondering what the strange mark at 8 o'clock in all images is, it is my arm  :




























*Refinement - Meguiars Finishing Wax on Finishing Microfibre*

Again, extending the set length beyond Meguiars' recommendation we found that the product refined a little better in terms of marring left, and so we worked the product for two to three minutes on speed 4 on a G220 V2 with light to moderate pressure, finishing with light pressure. This achieved the following results for clarity of reflection:



















Allowing the camera to auto focus:










Focussing on the paint surface:



















And under the Sun Gun:




























The thing here is there seemed to be less of an improvement using the Finishing wax than there was with 106FA - the Menzerna and foam needed the additional stage whereas the Meguiars system seemed to benefit only very little from this additional finishing stage... the overall clarity of the Meguiars seems a little greater, and looking in detail at the above pictures we believe this is because of the levelling effect the compound has to achieve the clearer reflections.

*Final Foam Refinement: 85RD on DRC1000 Finishing Foam*

Just to give the foam combo every opportunity to refine at its best, we then used a finishing pad (DRC1000 black) and Menzerna PO85RD Final Finish... initially we used the DAS-6 Pro for this but as this video illustrates we had pad bogging issues (foam pad too soft and large for a DA to use comfortably):






So, the Cruise Control feature of the G220 V2 was brought into play to allow the test to be completed with this pad, as it kept the pad rotations...











The results of this final refinement:




























Arguably a slight improvement in clarity again and coming closer to the Meguiars side.

*Finish Comparisons & Conclusion*

Below, we show comparisons of the finish, first of all side by side, with Menzerna on the left and Meguiars on the right of the uncorrected line:










Menzerna side after:



















Meguiars side after:



















On the test, it seemed that the Meguiars side had the greater clarity and slightly sharper reflections which seemed to be down to the first stage of the process where the Correction Compound did a superior job of levelling the surface despite not fully removing the RDS - the correction style seems very different and this has advantages in terms of the clarity but disadvantages in terms of outright correction. Perhaps, it would be fair to say that both systems have their place rather than one taking over from the other. Meguiars certainly have introduced a new and exciting range here and the combo of pads and polishes/compounds is impressive and produces very good results, and when time and clarity are considered as well as correction you see the big plus points for the products. More testing to come, but so far, Meguiars' new DA Microfibre system is impressing :thumb:

Finally, some water bead shots showing the beads growing in size with more water added until the bead finally breaks free. Results from the finishing wax:


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## GMToyota (Mar 14, 2010)

Intereseting write up. Thanks!

Interesting that they can co-exist next to eachother. So if I understand correctly: 
in cases of *heavy correction*, it's probably better to correct with DA and foam or better yet: rotary and foam. 
And you could then step down to the DA+MF system to finish with better clarity..

And for *medium/light correction*, just skip the foam and work with the new MF system for a finish with better sharpness and clarity...

Is that a good assumption?


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## neo8047 (May 5, 2006)

Another fantastic write up Dave and very interesting results. I have to say that to a non-expects eye such as my own there is very little difference in the end results.

I know its difficult to say and would depend on paint type but how much time do you think would be saved on the Megs system (on a % basis?)

Is there likely to be any issues with the Megs system on softer paints or if the correction mainly down to pressure applied?


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

The microfibre system can still be used for heavy correction, but based on our tests so far, we would still use rotary and foam, or even rotary and wool for the heavy correction and then yes, the levelling could be done with Megs on a DA. Having said that, the levelling effect is very similar to what we see with a rotary and wool though without the large paint removal rates, so it is probably something to do with the fibre-like structures of the pads versus foam. You could use the Megs system for heavier correction, future tests will be looking at pushing it beyond the single set to multiple sets and using water revival as well. We didn't include that in this test because we were looking for a direct comparison to single sets with foam 

Middle of the road correction though, the microfibre system had big advantages as this test shows and time wise, I would say this saves a good 25%. Soft paints the subject of a future test


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## dogtown123 (Feb 7, 2011)

Why not use the new microfiber system as the base of the detail to remove 85% of defects and were needed on the RDS use spot correction with DA and foam pads/wet sanding if needed 

I think this would be a brilliant idea, for a noob like me it's a fantastic way to start, buy the new microfiber system and when needed on the RDS buy hex logic pads with menz polishs were needed using spot correction

What do u think Dave KG


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

dogtown123 said:


> Why not use the new microfiber system as the base of the detail to remove 85% of defects and were needed on the RDS use spot correction with DA and foam pads/wet sanding if needed
> 
> I think this would be a brilliant idea, for a noob like me it's a fantastic way to start, buy the new microfiber system and when needed on the RDS buy hex logic pads with menz polishs were needed using spot correction
> 
> What do u think Dave KG


Yes, that is a perfectly good idea for methodology  Of course, you don't need to spot correct if you don't want to, you may just wish to leave the RDS in place to preserve the paint thickness. If you have the room to remove them, then you can use the spot correction - definitely a good plan :thumb:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Fantastic comparison Dave! I'm even more sold on the correction system now! I still think I'd skip the finishing system and stick with the conventional pads and Menz.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

type[r]+ said:


> Fantastic comparison Dave! I'm even more sold on the correction system now! I still think I'd skip the finishing system and stick with the conventional pads and Menz.


I have to say that so far, it is the correction system that impresses me most whereas the finishing system I am not really that sold on personally... but we have more tests to see if we can get more from it, but it is not tempting me away from a fine finishing polish and a foam pad just yet. Ideal combination for me at the moment is microfibre correction compound, followed by a finishing foam and 85RD or Megs own 205...


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Another in depth and super informative comparison test...:thumb:


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## toni (Oct 30, 2005)

Very good comparison Dave! 

Do you plan on trying "regular" polishes like Menzerna with these pads?


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## twissler (Apr 6, 2009)

I'm not sure if you have mentioned this in a previous post but are the DA pads compatible with #205 or equivalent Menz polish. If so is this a viable option or does #205 work best on foam?


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## twoscoops (Mar 26, 2010)

Excellent write up on the new system Dave but one thing that concerns me slightly is how to preserve the microfibre pads for the normal person who doesnt have access to an air line to blast them with. How did you find their usage, did you have to clean them regularly or did you just use multiple pads during the process?

Cheers


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Good informative write up as always guys.

I really like the MF system but I'm still preferring finishing with foam at the moment.


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## dcampbell42 (May 4, 2011)

sorry to bring this back up, but for spot correction of RDS would it be better to buy a megs 3" cutting pad or a foam 3"?

and how would you recommend the finishing wax? buy or not?

thanks


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

dcampbell42 said:


> sorry to bring this back up, but for spot correction of RDS would it be better to buy a megs 3" cutting pad or a foam 3"?
> 
> and how would you recommend the finishing wax? buy or not?
> 
> thanks


Megs MF cutting pads used with D300 or M105 have a huge cutting power are safe and can finish down pretty well. Another alternative for deeper marks is M105 with microfinger surbuf pads. You can also archive good results with a standard cutting foam pad and a compound. Finishing wax is a good product but many probably prefer to finish with a pure finishing polish and seal with their favorite LSP.


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## scooby73 (Mar 20, 2007)

A really informative write-up lads!:thumb:

Will be interested to see the test on softer finishes, such as Subaru and Honda's.


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

I prefer foam on RDS, rather than the MF system.

Last few cars I've done, I've used foam via rotary first on RDS, corrected with MF system, then finished with rotary.

Foam seems to 'round' edges a lot better than the MF system, to chops back scratches a lot more effectively, based on what I've experienced.


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## TelTel (Aug 21, 2010)

cheers Dave, fantastic and useful info on the MF system!!


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## Pedro.Malheiro (Mar 18, 2011)

excelent topic. congrat


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2011)

Do you think it'll have good effect against heavy orange peel?

Great review


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## ElGaby (Jul 23, 2010)

I have Menzerna FG500 and i buy Cobra Orange pads for cutting, this two are the same like your products?


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