# Annual leave whilst furloughed ?



## Lsmcdti

So i am currently a furloughed worker, i work for a car manufacturer and was due to be on annual leave for easter from 13th-24th but was told by my employer that we would not be using our holiday and would still be on the furlough pay, iv just received an email from them saying we will now be taking our 2 weeks holiday a week late so will be paid our normal holiday pay for the 2 weeks then back to the furlough rate, my question is can they make us take our annual leave now, i heard something about annual holidays on the news and them being carried over until 2021, i was hoping to book them 2 weeks on September when our first baby is born, so yeah, can they do it ? Thanks


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## bradleymarky

I’ve just been reading up about this and they can. ACAS has said its legal even though holidays are supposed to be for rest and to relax, this isn’t the case at the minute.


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## Nidge76

I don't know the answer to your particular situation. 

However I'm also being forced to take all booked annual leave and not allowed to cancel it.

I'm lucky in that I'm paid fully. I am doing some social media work from home.

However in the 3 weeks I've been at home I have already lost 1 weeks annual leave so far. 

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## muzzer

I'm furloughed and whilst they are not _forcing_ us to take our holidays, they _are_ asking us to make sure we do book holidays so that not everybody ends up having nearly 25 days when we do get off furlough and back to work.

I presume if people don't take their holidays, then the company may start insisting that people are taking holidays


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## stonejedi

Lsmcdti said:


> So i am currently a furloughed worker, i work for a car manufacturer and was due to be on annual leave for easter from 13th-24th but was told by my employer that we would not be using our holiday and would still be on the furlough pay, iv just received an email from them saying we will now be taking our 2 weeks holiday a week late so will be paid our normal holiday pay for the 2 weeks then back to the furlough rate, my question is can they make us take our annual leave now, i heard something about annual holidays on the news and them being carried over until 2021, i was hoping to book them 2 weeks on September when our first baby is born, so yeah, can they do it ? Thanks


No they cannot do that regardless of what company you work for, if you are on a furloughed payment scheme that is exactly what you are on.If your holiday comes up over that time when you are on furlough payment your holiday will have to be owed to you untill the situation is over same goes for bank holidays etc...For example if you was off of work sick just before your holiday was due to start and you was put down as sick,your boss cannot then tell you that you are off of work sick but take your holiday and when your holiday is finished and you are still unwell we will revert you back to sick pay....Ridiculous.You are either furloughed or you are not.SJ.


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## Juke_Fan

Have a look at this it might be useful https://www.acas.org.uk/coronavirus/using-holiday

*Requiring staff to take or cancel holiday*
Employers have the right to tell employees and workers when to take holiday.

An employer could, for example, shut for a week and tell everyone to use their holiday entitlement.

If the employer decides to do this, they must tell staff at least twice as many days before as the amount of days they need people to take.

For example, if they want to close for 5 days, they should tell everyone at least 10 days before.

Employers can also cancel pre-booked paid holiday. If they decide to do this, they must give staff at least the same number of days' notice as the original holiday request.

also

Furloughed workers must get their usual pay in full, for any holiday they take.


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## DLGWRX02

My wife and I was due to fly out to Dominican this weekend, she has been furloughed from work since March and just this week had an email saying her annual leave has been cancelled for this month, and she also had a week booked at the end of may, that’s also been cancelled by the company.


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## nbray67

We have been told to cancel holidays while furloughed and that they will, once confirmed by the Govt, carry them over for 2yrs.

I'm still working for the next 3wks incl this wk and then being furloughed for 8wks as we are rotating the furlough process. Dependent on the lockdown and when we can rtn to 'normal' work, I may not 'benefit' (some lads are calling this a benefit, not me btw) from the furlough in terms of time off work, hopefully, I don't 'benefit' and we rtn to normality before the end of our proposed furlough period at the end of June.

In truth, our company have been outstanding during the crisis, paying those furloughed 100% of their wage incl pension contributions and the next qrtly bonus due in May.


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## Kerr

I can see the argument that if you're only working 9 months in the year that you are only entitled to 3/4 of your holiday entitlement. Forcing people to take more holidays than that would be unfair and the company saving themselves additional money. 

I think too many companies are using furloughing to their advantage. If companies can afford to pay staff and bonuses they shouldn't be allowed to use the scheme. Just like all benefits it should have some means testing.


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## DTB

To the OP, while they can ask you to take your holidays now to prevent a disproportionate number of staff being off in the 2nd half of the year, if you have a good relationship with your employer it may be worth having a conversation with them about your situation and asking whether they can accommodate you. Perhaps there will need to be a bit of give and take, but that's always the way with negotiations.


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## kingswood

check your t&c's or employee booklet etc.

ours says we must take a week in each season. 

luckily (?!) i'm still working FT so leave will be good but its not like we can do anything or go anywhere.


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## bradleymarky

Maybe ask them if you can take them 1 day a week to bump your wage up. Save the extra money and go sick for a week later in the year for a holiday.


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## Kerr

bradleymarky said:


> Maybe ask them if you can take them 1 day a week to bump your wage up. Save the extra money and go sick for a week later in the year for a holiday.


I've never understood why so many people see no issue taking a week off work. If people didn't go off on the sick so much then maybe our basic salaries would be higher.

It's also way many companies are unwilling or can't afford to offer good sickness pay. People don't play fair.


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## bradleymarky

Kerr said:


> I've never understood why so many people see no issue taking a week off work. If people didn't go off on the sick so much then maybe our basic salaries would be higher.
> 
> It's also way many companies are unwilling or can't afford to offer good sickness pay. People don't play fair.


its totally different at this time with the virus, the op probably isn't going to have a holiday this year ( like most people in the country) so why not, they've enforced holiday leave to be paid.

I can count on one hand the amount of sick days I've taken in 25 years but I would not hesitate to have a family holiday with a week on the sick.


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## Kerr

bradleymarky said:


> its totally different at this time with the virus, the op probably isn't going to have a holiday this year ( like most people in the country) so why not, they've enforced holiday leave to be paid.
> 
> I can count on one hand the amount of sick days I've taken in 25 years but I would not hesitate to have a family holiday with a week on the sick.


It's different, but remember your company is probably losing a fortune. They'll be struggling for survival too. It's exceptional circumstances for employees and it's exceptional for companies.

It's difficult for everyone. Companies shouldn't be abusing the government scheme, but equally companies can't afford for employees to take advantage.


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## JwilliamsM

I work for a government agency, and I'm currently off work as they have deemed my team non essential to be in, and we cannot work from home, so we are off work on fully payed special leave. 
I've been off work about 2 weeks and a bit now, but over this bank holiday I had booked off 4 days. Obviously I can't go anywhere or do much, but my employer is making people use their annual leave if they have pre booked any days off, even though we are on special leave and nobody can do anything.
Are they allowed to do this?
What if I had booked to go away on holiday and it got cancelled, and we were going to rebook in say November time, but I now have less leave to take?

Not after sympathy, just want to know where I stand.


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## Nidge76

JwilliamsM said:


> I work for a government agency, and I'm currently off work as they have deemed my team non essential to be in, and we cannot work from home, so we are off work on fully payed special leave.
> I've been off work about 2 weeks and a bit now, but over this bank holiday I had booked off 4 days. Obviously I can't go anywhere or do much, but my employer is making people use their annual leave if they have pre booked any days off, even though we are on special leave and nobody can do anything.
> Are they allowed to do this?
> What if I had booked to go away on holiday and it got cancelled, and we were going to rebook in say November time, but I now have less leave to take?
> 
> Not after sympathy, just want to know where I stand.


I'm in this exact same position. If this goes on into the summer most of the staff will have used up the majority of their annual leave and we'll have nothing left to use to get away on holiday after it's all over. It's very frustrating to say the least.

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## AndyA4TDI

I also work for a government department, I have 4 weeks leave booked in next 2 months. I consider myself one of the lucky ones so will accept those 4 weeks are simply spent at home, I have no intention of cancelling them and rebooking once this is all over, it would cause additional problems for my employer and as I said I am one of the luckier ones.:thumb:


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## Juke_Fan

Also work for a government department, we are being allowed to cancel leave but also encouraged to take some during home working from a mental health perspective as it can be harder to switch off working from home.

I have cancelled some leave but also booked time off in the next month and for the rest of the year leaving a bit to carry forwards which we can now do over a two year period if needed.

Overall I would say my employer is being very fair, they are even delivering equipment packages to us via courier. Got a monitor and usb hub arriving in the next couple of days.


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## Nidge76

Juke_Fan said:


> Also work for a government department, we are being allowed to cancel leave but also encouraged to take some during home working from a mental health perspective as it can be harder to switch off working from home.
> 
> I have cancelled some leave but also booked time off in the next month and for the rest of the year leaving a bit to carry forwards which we can now do over a two year period if needed.
> 
> Overall I would say my employer is being very fair, they are even delivering equipment packages to us via courier. Got a monitor and usb hub arriving in the next couple of days.


That sounds like a fair compromise and what I will be asking my employer to consider although I already know what the answer will be 

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## ollienoclue

If this carries on much longer whether or not you have got any holiday entitlement or will be allowed any will be the least of folk's worries. Going to be a rather different world we emerge into after this.


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## kh904

Kerr said:


> I can see the argument that if you're only working 9 months in the year that you are only entitled to 3/4 of your holiday entitlement. Forcing people to take more holidays than that would be unfair and the company saving themselves additional money.
> 
> *I think too many companies are using furloughing to their advantage. If companies can afford to pay staff and bonuses they shouldn't be allowed to use the scheme. Just like all benefits it should have some means testing.*


I agree with you that many companies will abuse this furlough system, and on the face of it many may 'seem' to take advantage thinking that they 'look like' they can afford it, but how do you define 'afford'? 
I know personally from where I work, it could be argued that the company has good 'profits' but that doesn't necessarily mean good cash reserves to pay wages, and even if cash reserves were relatively ok, I know looking ahead long after lockdown has been lifted, business is not going to go back to the normal straight away (if at all), so decisions have to be done now to survive.

It's going to be really really tough and I fear the effects for the lockdown will be terrible and will also costs lives in the long term (i'm not disregarding those who have had their health and lives effected/died now due to the virus). 
Stress causing heart attacks, suicide, domestic abuse, mental health, homelessness etc etc


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## apj0524

stonejedi said:


> No they cannot do that regardless of what company you work for, if you are on a furloughed payment scheme that is exactly what you are on.If your holiday comes up over that time when you are on furlough payment your holiday will have to be owed to you untill the situation is over same goes for bank holidays etc...For example if you was off of work sick just before your holiday was due to start and you was put down as sick,your boss cannot then tell you that you are off of work sick but take your holiday and when your holiday is finished and you are still unwell we will revert you back to sick pay....Ridiculous.You are either furloughed or you are not.SJ.


I am sorry you are mistaken a company can have you on furlough for a min of 3 weeks then take you off for a holiday period and pay you your holiday pay and then put you back on furlough for a further minimum period of three weeks to avoid employees have all their holiday pay back loaded to to the end of the year


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## telewebby

stonejedi said:


> No they cannot do that regardless of what company you work for, if you are on a furloughed payment scheme that is exactly what you are on.If your holiday comes up over that time when you are on furlough payment your holiday will have to be owed to you untill the situation is over same goes for bank holidays etc...For example if you was off of work sick just before your holiday was due to start and you was put down as sick,your boss cannot then tell you that you are off of work sick but take your holiday and when your holiday is finished and you are still unwell we will revert you back to sick pay....Ridiculous.You are either furloughed or you are not.SJ.


you can be off sick, take a weeks holiday (on full pay) and then go back to ssp and also vice versa, if you are on holiday and become ill or become ill before your holiday you can take it as sick/ssp and keep the holiday dates as long as you give correct notice period

whilst you are on sick you still acrue holiday entitlement.

Alex


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