# Having Trouble Correcting my Black Car!



## Benfr16

Hi Mike,

I am having issues with my Seat Ibiza FR (2016), which is midnight black.

When I first decided I wanted to get rid of the swirls and imperfections in my paint, I bought a 650watt DA polisher, Meguiars Ultimate Compound & M205.

I clayed the car (Bilt Hamber) and then did a two step polish to the whole vehicle. I followed up with wax (presta fast wax) and it looked great!

A couple of days later (after washing) I noticed that there was some imperfections remaining and after discussing on here, it was clear I had missed the importance of an IPA wipe down. I have since purchased and used IPA following correction but I cannot remove these fine scratches that look like wash marring from my paint.

This follows:
a) Megs UC on a Chemical guys Orange hex pad & M205 on CG White
b) Megs Swirl-X on an Orange or White CG pad 
c) Today I tried my door with 2 passes of UC & 1 Pass of Swirl-X on Orange CG

So basically I do not know what I can do to get rid of these marks, they are pretty hard to capture but ill add some videos below.

In terms of technique, I have watched the junkman series amongst many other videos and work to a 2X2ft section with 50% 6 - 8 overlapping passes at approx 1inch per second.

*Video showing the top half of the door after one pass of UC on an orange pad (Today): *





*Video showing total door after 2 passes of UC on orange pad and Swirl-x on orange pad (Today): *




*
This video is after a previous attempt (I believe following the second attempt - Swirl-X on an orange pad)*





*This final video shows the initial correction that I performed which shows how bad the paint was. *





What do you recommend? Is it something regarding my VAG paint been particularly hard? M105 or a Heavy pad? 
- Some people have questioned if it is the MF cloths. I am not so sure since these defects can be seen in the final video on a panel that had never been detailed. I have also tried to see if I can induce similar defects by using pressure and an MF cloth under bright light and cannot seem to cause this defect.

*Theres an old picture here showing a rear side panel prior to any detailing *


*Thanks. I appreciate this thread has a lot of info!
*

*Heres a nice pic just because! *


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## organgrinder

The video looks as though you have buffer trails - you probably need to get a black Hex pad and use it with the M205.


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## Benfr16

I'm not too sure if that's the case. The defects were present before a machine polisher had touched the paint. They Just exist to a lesser extent now! However if I remain stuck I will bare that in mind and give it a go


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## Mike Phillips

Hi Ben,

Sorry for the late reply, can't keep up with work any longer...



Benfr16 said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> I am having issues with my Seat Ibiza FR (2016), which is midnight black.
> 
> When I first decided I wanted to get rid of the swirls and imperfections in my paint, I bought a 650watt DA polisher, Meguiars Ultimate Compound & M205.
> 
> I clayed the car (Bilt Hamber) and then did a two step polish to the whole vehicle. I followed up with wax (presta fast wax) and it looked great!
> 
> A couple of days later (after washing) I noticed that there was some imperfections remaining and after discussing on here, it was clear I had missed the importance of an IPA wipe down. I have since purchased and used IPA following correction but I cannot remove these fine scratches that look like wash marring from my paint.


Technically, if you have your technique down, you only need to chemically strip your test spot, not the entire car.

If you have correctly dialed-in your test spot and after chemically stripping the paint the results look to your expectations, then theoretically, if the defects in the paint are same throughout all panels and you perform the same buffing cycle you performed for the test spot, then theoretically you'll get the same results and as such you don't need to chemically strip the entire car, just the test spot.



Benfr16 said:


> This follows:
> a) Megs UC on a Chemical guys Orange hex pad & M205 on CG White
> b) Megs Swirl-X on an Orange or White CG pad
> c) Today I tried my door with 2 passes of UC & 1 Pass of Swirl-X on Orange CG


I worked at Meguiar's when UC and SwirlX were introduced, even have an article about them I'll post here today.

Both are great products and use great abrasive technology. Meguiar's has incredible chemists on their team.



Benfr16 said:


> In terms of technique, I have watched the junkman series amongst many other videos and work to a 2X2ft section with 50% 6 - 8 overlapping passes at approx 1inch per second.


For most paint systems, a 2' x 2' area for a SIMPLE or ENTRY LEVEL DA is too large.

Every website, article, video, store page, etc. I've ever seen throws out the 2' x 2' size reference since I've been detailing cars and for simple DA polishers this is simply too large.

18" x 18" or so will make you more effective at removing defects.

When you work too large of an area with a simple DA you simply don't remove the defects as there's not enough concentrated abrading action taking place to the area.



Benfr16 said:


> What do you recommend? Is it something regarding my VAG paint been particularly hard? M105 or a Heavy pad?


One of two things,

Either you're not removing the original defects or the M205 is micro-marring the paint after you've removed the defects.

M205 is great on hard paints but is known to micro-mar softer paints.

I'd start first by switching to a different finishing polish and test it using a 100% clean soft foam "polishing" pad.

I'd also recommend getting away from any pad that does not have a FLAT face.

Designs in pads is a recipe for disaster plus they take longer and are more difficult to clean on the fly.



Benfr16 said:


> - Some people have questioned if it is the MF cloths. I am not so sure since these defects can be seen in the final video on a panel that had never been detailed. I have also tried to see if I can induce similar defects by using pressure and an MF cloth under bright light and cannot seem to cause this defect.


The videos didn't show up so I didn't watch them but from your descriptions I'll stick with what I wrote.

Either the paint is very hard and you're not removing the original defects thus they remain even after the polishing step.

Or

The paint is soft and the M205 is micro-marring the paint after the UC.

Get a bottle of any Menzerna polish, medium cut or fine cut and use this to test with.


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## Mike Phillips

Click the link, watch the video, look at the pictures and read the text...

Probably the most important or at least the most valuable article I've written for 2017

*How, why & when to inspect your microfiber towels when detailing cars*

Especially when you consider it takes HOURS to correct and polish a car to perfection and only seconds to undo all your hard work with a single abrasive particle lodged into the nap of a microfiber towel.

Think about it...


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## Benfr16

Ordered menz 3500, menz yellow pad and some new MFs. Will post any outcome when attempted!


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## Mike Phillips

Benfr16 said:


> Ordered menz 3500, menz yellow pad and some new MFs. Will post any outcome when attempted!


Why did you choose Microfiber pads instead of foam?

Fiber or fibers are a form of abrasive and can cause micro-marring.

This is especially a problem for soft paints and most visible on black and darker colors.


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## Benfr16

The menzerna yellow pad with the 3500 to try polishing with a different product and a flat pad.

The microfibres I was referring to MF Towels in response to your comment above.

I do have microfibre cutting pad as I was following another post of yours where you reccomended to someone else M101 plus MF cutting pad.(https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...448-m100-m101-m105-da-use-some-questions.html)

I Still, in my mind, think it is paint hardness rather than softness as there was some random scratches that were not stopped by a finger nail that I couldn't get out with a 3inch heavy cut spot pad and UC but we shall see!

So now I have a full range of products that I hope can solve this issue.

Just need to find the time (and the right weather) for the job now!


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## Benfr16

I accidentally ordered a medium pad instead of finishing so I had a go on the drivers door with Menz 3500 and my white cg quantum. I did 6 passes over a 12x12 to 16x16 area then did IPA wipe down and torch inspection with one of those powerful "cree" torches. I used brand new 370gsm microfibre towels and got good results.

I have sealed with autoallure toughseal (Uk startup company). If the results seem to be permanent (which they should be!) then I will be doing the whole car.

Heres a pic after IPA.



__
https://flic.kr/p/YXxmxj

Now one week later, I've washed the car once, and the same issue has presented itself. I have used freshly cleaned wash mitts, 2BM, I used a microfibre waffle weave to blot the car dry and picked up any missed parts with a plush MF drying towel. Not sure how this is possible? Im thinking that based on the direction of the marking, it has to be the washing process but I can really understand how I can prevent it from happening as (in my opinion), my washing technique is definitely acceptable!.


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## Leebo310

Benfr16 said:


> Now one week later, I've washed the car once, and the same issue has presented itself. I have used freshly cleaned wash mitts, 2BM, I used a microfibre waffle weave to blot the car dry and picked up any missed parts with a plush MF drying towel. Not sure how this is possible? Im thinking that based on the direction of the marking, it has to be the washing process but I can really understand how I can prevent it from happening as (in my opinion), my washing technique is definitely acceptable!.


If they are now appearing again, it is almost certainly your washing technique. 
The long winded way to test it would be to correct the panel again to the standard in your pic above. Then start your wash process and stop between each stage and inspect the same panel with the light. You should be able to identify which part of your routine is causing the damage quite easily.


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