# Cryptocurrencies anyone?



## waqasr

Missing out on the whole Bitcoin boom, Ethereum seems to be promising. Its said it will become the basis to the "Internet V3". Im looking at investing into it but its abit of a leaning curve with digital wallets and what not.

Anyone else investing?


----------



## Cookies

Sorry chum, I genuinely didn't understand a word of that. Lol. I'm slowly turning into my dad!

Must do a bit of research to understand what you whippersnappers are talking about these days. 

Cooks 

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk


----------



## shycho

I've given up on Bitcoin and am looking at Ripple as my next option. (mainly because of the price of each, but i'm still researching Ripple). 

Ethereum seems to be flavour of the month, having increased from around £10 per token at the start of the year to around £310 now. I managed to pick up 1.5 token at the £70 mark, and while I regret not buying more, £100 was all I was willing to risk on it back then. With hindsight I would have purchased £7,000 worth and be sitting on £31,000 now, but all crypto currencies are very volatile and it would have been as easy to lose £6,990. 

Coinbase or Kraken seem like good places to start if you want to invest. 

However most people will tell you to treat it like gambling right now and only invest what you can afford to lose, as while all coins have potential you'll find only 1 or 2 are adopted and pushed forward over the next 5-10 years.


----------



## willywonker

Tim Ferriss' podcast last week was about cryptocurrency, more the background and low level technical bits rather than out and out investment advise, but as someone how knew little, I found it really interesting. 

Seems to be early days with a lot of scammers out there!


----------



## Gek

Ricky at the moment very volatile at the moment. 

I have some ETH and some LiteCoin. Should have picked up some AltCoins as everyone is dumping into them today.

Seems to be invest what you can lose and just hold it there for a few years.


----------



## shycho

Just to give you a little indication on the volatility of crypto currencies. Bitcoin has dropped by approximately 25% / £500 in the last couple of days. 
It could bounce back again within a week or so, or it could tank further nobody can say for certain, but that is a big correction!


----------



## m500dpp

I had a look at USI bitcoin and it seems to me it's a Ponzi scheme or chain letter so that it can only survive by recruiting new members.

My thinking is as already said, only invest what you can lose, bear in mind if it looks too good to be true it probably is.

Money really doesn't come from thin air if you make money someone or maybe lots of people are losing money..........I really can't understand where bitcoin etc has any underlying value, Warren Buffets advice is never invest in something you dont understand so I'm staying out.....


----------



## shycho

m500dpp said:


> I had a look at USI bitcoin and it seems to me it's a Ponzi scheme or chain letter so that it can only survive by recruiting new members.
> 
> My thinking is as already said, only invest what you can lose, bear in mind if it looks too good to be true it probably is.
> 
> Money really doesn't come from thin air if you make money someone or maybe lots of people are losing money..........I really can't understand where bitcoin etc has any underlying value, Warren Buffets advice is never invest in something you dont understand so I'm staying out.....


I agree with pretty much all of this, apart from the Ponzi scheme comment. But you could just as easily replace the word Bitcoin with gold and your comments would still ring true.


----------



## kh904

shycho said:


> I agree with pretty much all of this, apart from the Ponzi scheme comment. But you could just as easily replace the word Bitcoin with gold and your comments would still ring true.


But gold (and silver) have been money for thousands of years and are pretty stable in terms of holding it's value over a long period of time.
There is a ponzi scheme in gold too, but that's if you buy/trade it on 'paper' and if anything the true price of it is being surpressed (that's another topic)

The problem with bitcoin is that it has no intrisic value where as gold does!
You can physically gold it in your possession, use it for jewellery etc etc.

I just don't know enough in-depth technical details (just the overall basic theory) of cryptocurrencies to know if any particular ones would be good to invest in.

The theory of crytocurrencies are good imo, but there as also inherent risks (but there are risks in everything I guess)!
Also just like a lot like the dotcom companies in the early 2000's I suspect many crytocurrencies will disappear - this is just imo.


----------



## m500dpp

> Bitcoin cash split off from bitcoin on August 1 after a minority of developers decided to implement an upgrade that increased the block size to eight megabytes from one megabyte. Block size limits transaction speeds, and the SegWit2x upgrade would have raised the block size to two megabytes.


Yes I always thought the SegWit2x upgrade was dodgy! If anyone wants to explain this please write it on a £50 note and send to me.

As an alternative google tulip mania (yes really). When that went pop at least the participants had a few (albeit overpriced) tulip bulbs if Bitcoin collapses the participants will own a share in a line of computer code..........

Will it succeed or is it the biggest con ever? Tbh I've no idea there seem to be a vast number of gullible people out there prepared to "invest", time will tell, i'd like to hear other opinions.


----------



## shycho

It always confuses me when people suggest Bitcoin is worthless because it isn't real, as though we'd all get a lump of gold (which is next to useless) or an Apocalypse survival kit from the government in exchange for our cash if everything when t**s up. 

Bitcoin may eventually die and a lot of people will lose a lot of money but the theory behind crypto currency is sound. Especially for the undeveloped parts of the world where millions don't have access to a bank account or even a bank, and are starting to get access to the internet through smartphones. 

For what it's worth, I do think putting your cash in to crypto currency right now is a gamble, not an investment. 
But I'm also excited to see how main stream business adapts to this era, as more and more big players start to dip their toe in the water.


----------



## m500dpp

Lots of fake news stories on FB "this family invested 10p in bitcoin and paid off their mortgage" with a picture of a BBC interview taking place, Branson and Gates invest in Bitcoin etc, all lies and all aimed at the gullible to join in and keep the myth going.

Latest rise is reckoned to be down to FOMO (fear of missing out) in other words that bloke is making money why don't I get involved. It's a powerful thing, I have thought of getting in - how many others? another reason is that an outfit in the states is going to start trading bitcoin futures.................

Some investment managers are likening it to tulip mania, this video explaining that is worth 3 minutes of your life if you are even remotely interested in bitcoin.






Who would imagine people would be daft enough to trade their estate for a tulip bulb which has little intrinsic value - well it happened!

I am undecided on bitcoin, it will either be the biggest scam ever, or become a viable currency, only time will tell.


----------



## kvn618

shycho said:


> It always confuses me when people suggest Bitcoin is worthless because it isn't real, as though we'd all get a lump of gold (which is next to useless) or an Apocalypse survival kit from the government in exchange for our cash if everything when t**s up.
> 
> Bitcoin may eventually die and a lot of people will lose a lot of money but the theory behind crypto currency is sound. Especially for the undeveloped parts of the world where millions don't have access to a bank account or even a bank, and are starting to get access to the internet through smartphones.
> 
> For what it's worth, I do think putting your cash in to crypto currency right now is a gamble, not an investment.
> But I'm also excited to see how main stream business adapts to this era, as more and more big players start to dip their toe in the water.


I think cryptocurrency are here to stay. The fact that they provide anonymity while transacting is their biggest USP. The question right now which one(or two or three) will be the biggest ones. The ridiculous profits from BitCoin and ETH are behind us but there are a number of promising ICO that just about to launch. It is an extremely high risk investment or a gamble whichever you want to call it. But the key is to try to find a unique UPS from 100s of ICOs running atm. I did some research and settled on NAGA (https://www.nagaico.com/?refcode=vm2mgj mods, remove the link if not allowed) it's run by established fintech German company, so unlikely be a scam. They have already raised over $30m from over 40,000 backers. The launch price per token is low enough - $1 and they already secured a deal with a top 10 exchange to trade the token. But the main reason for me to invest was their plans for it which I think would really differentiate them from all over ICOs.


----------



## waqasr

Damn, just realized I made this thread in June, had I invested a couple grand then Id have made massive gains in the right coin/s. Same could be said for 2 weeks ago aswell. But im going in now, wish me luck!

For anyone interested Id say look into ADA for a start.


----------



## Iwill89

I get itchy hands every time I check bitcoin news. Still I haven't bought any cryptocurrencies, I don't believe they have much of a future. Guess the focus should lie on the technologies and principles behind bitcoin. For example blockchain and shared ledgers can be used in legal deals, voting, money transfers (fiat money, not e-currencies) and they will most probably transform some spheres of our lives https://tranio.com/world/analytics/...s-will-transform-the-real-estate-market_5405/ And as they are limited in number they will eventually become a rare possession of the few and hopefully will be banned or gone to the grey market, otherwise it's going to be like oligarchy of XXI century


----------



## kvn618

kvn618 said:


> I think cryptocurrency are here to stay. The fact that they provide anonymity while transacting is their biggest USP. The question right now which one(or two or three) will be the biggest ones. The ridiculous profits from BitCoin and ETH are behind us but there are a number of promising ICO that just about to launch. It is an extremely high risk investment or a gamble whichever you want to call it. But the key is to try to find a unique UPS from 100s of ICOs running atm. I did some research and settled on NAGA (https://www.nagaico.com/?refcode=vm2mgj mods, remove the link if not allowed) it's run by established fintech German company, so unlikely be a scam. They have already raised over $30m from over 40,000 backers. The launch price per token is low enough - $1 and they already secured a deal with a top 10 exchange to trade the token. But the main reason for me to invest was their plans for it which I think would really differentiate them from all over ICOs.


There are still lots of opportunities to make quick money from solid ICOs, ones that have already been confirmed to be on exchange. The thing that puts a lot of people off is the fact that most ICOs require deposits in either BTC or ETH and most people who are new to crypto don't have either of them yet. The coin above NAGA that I have mentioned above 3 weeks ago at $1 now trading at $2.5 (with highest price as high as $4) so that is an easy double of your investment in 3 weeks. I know couple of people PM'd me who have invested. 
There is another great coin Envion ( https://envion.icoref.link/click?pid=1331&offer_id=1) that have been confirmed to be listed on HitBTC exchange that is still at ICO stage at $1 and should make similar initial gains as NAGA coin.


----------



## Tricky Red

I struggle a little with the ethical use of these currencies. I can imagine an underground criminality that thrives on their use for laundering etc.


----------



## Bill58

Tricky Red said:


> I struggle a little with the ethical use of these currencies. I can imagine an underground criminality that thrives on their use for laundering etc.


When we got hit with Cryptolocker on our business computer 3 years ago the hackers wanted paid in Bitcoin.


----------



## Alfieharley1

I'm currently looking into Theta. Going to be a long process but will see how it goes over the next 2 years


----------



## nac34

What exchanges are everyone using.

Or do purchase from cryptomate.

I'm still waiting for my account to be verified on gatehub starting to lose patients 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## Gek

nac34 said:


> What exchanges are everyone using.
> 
> Or do purchase from cryptomate.
> 
> I'm still waiting for my account to be verified on gatehub starting to lose patients
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Loads of the Exchanges have put a stop on new registrations until mid Jan to sort out their performance issues.


----------



## nac34

Gek said:


> Loads of the Exchanges have put a stop on new registrations until mid Jan to sort out their performance issues.


Would you how I can buy ripple xrp without using the exchanges

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## shycho

I've used both Coinbase and Kraken. Not sure if they are accepting new signups right now. 

The trouble i'm having is with converting my money back into FIAT currency and getting it to my bank account. As there seems to be a lot of hoops to jump though due to money laundering regulations. 

On the ripple side of things, while i'm quite happy with it's current state (as I got in at $0.25 per coin) I can't see much of a future for it. It has thousands of times more coins than BitCoin and the founders own roughly 60% of them. So I can't see it going much above $10 a coin, especially as more financial institutes are showing an interest in it, and will obviously want stability. 
Although i'm sure many were saying something similar about BitCoin years ago. 

Still, as with all CryptoCurrency and these ICOs which are popping up, I'll continue to treat them as gambling as opposed to investing.


----------



## m500dpp

> The trouble i'm having is with converting my money back into FIAT currency and getting it to my bank account. As there seems to be a lot of hoops to jump though due to money laundering regulations.


I thought the whole point of crypto was that it was without regulation and therefore outside of ML regs? It's more likely they are resisting drawing money out to prevent the pyramid collapsing?


----------



## shycho

m500dpp said:


> I thought the whole point of crypto was that it was without regulation and therefore outside of ML regs? It's more likely they are resisting drawing money out to prevent the pyramid collapsing?


I think the problem lies more with your conventional banks not liking you dropping £10k-£20k in your account from no where.


----------



## uberbmw

can't sign up anywhere for two weeks at least! Bitstamp/bittrex pending zzzzz 

what you guys on? I want some Powr and trx


----------



## FJ1000

I’m no crypto currency expert but I’ll just point out a few risks that I don’t think a lot of people are really considering...

1. Now that we have bitcoin futures trading, there is a mechanism to short bitcoin

2. Hedge funds are looking into trading the futures but are currently being held up by the banks who are reluctant to clear the futures trades. Once that hurdle is overcome, there could be some large shorts in the market

3. As Bitcoin is becoming a currency of choice for criminals - authorities such as the EU are looking into increased regulation 

4. HMRC are also looking into how they can collect capital gains 

5. As I understand it - bitcoin is not actually regarded as the “best” of the 1700 odd cryptocurrencies out there by technology experts - it just has the biggest following, which happens to be mostly speculative retail investors 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## m500dpp

TBH I just cannot understand why so many people buy and trade what is really just fresh air! At some point there will be a realisation of this and cryptos will go the way of the tulip bulb.

Just my view!


----------



## RedUntilDead

m500dpp said:


> TBH I just cannot understand why so many people buy and trade what is really just fresh air! At some point there will be a realisation of this and cryptos will go the way of the tulip bulb.
> 
> Just my view!


Well my coinbase wallet (£100) is up £13 in two days, whose laughing now? This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires 
I'm just treating it as a fun punt. FOMO will keep the interest up but crypto is not going away. Countries are embracing it I.e 260 Japanese outlets accept it as payment,Putin wants in and even the Royal mint are trying to develop something, Amazon are under pressure to start accepting it. Trading sites can't keep up with the speed and growth of demand.


----------



## FJ1000

Treating it as a small punt is the right way. Don’t stake more than you’d be able to accept losing.

There are stories of people remortgaging their homes and maxing out their credit cards to buy in though! Madness

In reality, the proportion of businesses that accept bitcoin as payment is still absolutely minuscule. There is no way I’d want to accept something so volatile as payment!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## m500dpp

I put £5300 into Immupharma in May, it's now worth £17800, so dont worry I'm laughing with you!



> I'm just treating it as a fun punt. FOMO will keep the interest up


 Yes agree for a while. Trouble is there are now more than 1000 versions of fresh air, they wont all survive. South korea, one of the most active Bitcoin markets have closed down trading as has China. it's a totally confused market with billions invested in nothing, gamble only what you can afford to lose, which you are doing - good luck.


----------



## Tricky Red

m500dpp said:


> I put £5300 into Immupharma in May, it's now worth £17800, so dont worry I'm laughing with you!


 Are you still in?


----------



## shycho

Would be nice to see the topic focus on those interested in discussing the merits of any crypto currency instead of those who see it all as snake oil.



m500dpp said:


> TBH I just cannot understand why so many people buy and trade what is really just fresh air! At some point there will be a realisation of this and cryptos will go the way of the tulip bulb.
> Just my view!


Trading fresh air seems to make as much sense as the world's largest taxi company, owning no vehicles. The world's most popular media owner creating no content. The most valuable retailer, having no inventory. Or the world's largest accommodation provider, owning no real estate.


----------



## m500dpp

> Are you still in?


Yes still in IMM 3rd stage test completed results awaited. Most of the gains have been made I feel but latest broker forecast puts the shares at £2.37 so I'll stay. Also still in AFC which went up nicely before falling back.


----------



## FJ1000

shycho said:


> Would be nice to see the topic focus on those interested in discussing the merits of any crypto currency instead of those who see it all as snake oil.
> 
> Trading fresh air seems to make as much sense as the world's largest taxi company, owning no vehicles. The world's most popular media owner creating no content. The most valuable retailer, having no inventory. Or the world's largest accommodation provider, owning no real estate.


I couldn't disagree more.

Sticking your fingers in your ears and trying to ignore any criticism isn't particularly grown up or wise. Sensible investors listen to both sides of the argument.

Trading shares in companies with real cashflows is fundamentally different to trading cryptocurrencies. Even trading trading traditional currencies (which are backed by governments, large cash and gold reserves, and influenced by observable risk factors such as rates and economics) is fundamentally different to trading cryptocurrencies.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uberbmw

Where is the best place to withdraw from to bank account, Coinbase? not sure what others charge for withdrawing


----------



## kvn618

m500dpp said:


> I put £5300 into Immupharma in May, it's now worth £17800, so dont worry I'm laughing with you!
> 
> Yes agree for a while. Trouble is there are now more than 1000 versions of fresh air, they wont all survive. South korea, one of the most active Bitcoin markets have closed down trading as has China. it's a totally confused market with billions invested in nothing, gamble only what you can afford to lose, which you are doing - good luck.


Thats an amazing result! I haven't invested on the same scale. Only put in as much as I'm prepared to loose and not cry :lol: . Have invested in NAGA ($1000) at $1 a coin in December and its now worth $2.894 and also invested in couple promising projects: Envion, ICO is still on https://envion.icoref.link/click?pid=1331&offer_id=1 and Latium ICO is still in early stages so got a good discount https://latium.org/welcome/kvn618 . Still think there are money to be made if you do the research and make sure ICO is backed by solid team. Good luck


----------



## waqasr

What I will say is, cryptos are here to stay, it maybe something you dont understand but trust they will change the future. Bitcoin has been said to be a bubble in the media 144 times or so, yet it goes up and up. It may not be physical in the traditional sense but there is only a limited supply, 21mil to be exact. The fiat money we use is only worth something because we believe it is, it started as gold backed currency but those days are long gone.

Anyway im up to 22k on an 8k investment in just 2 weeks. Wish I got in earlier.

Shameless plug here, if you want to register https://www.coinbase.com/join/593c3569bf2dea0a521823dc

Cheapest way to buy is below, otherwise you can use bittilicous or localbitcoins but pay a premium

1) Download Revolut app and top it up with money from your bank
2) Exchange your GBP for EUR within Revolut app.
3) Send EUR from Revolut to your Coinbase EUR account.
4) Send EUR from Coinbase to GDAX (coinbase sister company) and buy your bitcoin, litecoin, ethereum here for market prices.
5) Send your Bitcoin/litecoin/Ethereum to an exchange to buy altcoins, exchanges like Bittrex, Poloniex and Binance are probably the best right now.



uberbmw said:


> Where is the best place to withdraw from to bank account, Coinbase? not sure what others charge for withdrawing


Sell your bitcoin on gdax (coinbase sister company) for Euros, send the euros to your revolut app, exchange euros to gbp and send to your bank.

It has to be done this way as coinbase doesnt support GBP deposits or withdrawals for now.


----------



## RedUntilDead

Sell your bitcoin on gdax (coinbase sister company) for Euros, send the euros to your revolut app, exchange euros to gbp and send to your bank.

It has to be done this way as coinbase doesnt support GBP deposits or withdrawals for now.[/QUOTE]

Don't get you? I only use coinbase (so far)and have just deposited £100 from my bank debit card.


----------



## waqasr

RedUntilDead said:


> Sell your bitcoin on gdax (coinbase sister company) for Euros, send the euros to your revolut app, exchange euros to gbp and send to your bank.
> 
> It has to be done this way as coinbase doesnt support GBP deposits or withdrawals for now.


Don't get you? I only use coinbase (so far)and have just deposited £100 from my bank debit card.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, you are right, but from what I remember the limit is quite small to do it from debit card, a couple hundred a day or something. But as far as I know you cant withdraw GBP from coinbase at the moment.


----------



## RedUntilDead

waqasr said:


> Don't get you? I only use coinbase (so far)and have just deposited £100 from my bank debit card.


Sorry, you are right, but from what I remember the limit is quite small to do it from debit card, a couple hundred a day or something. But as far as I know you cant withdraw GBP from coinbase at the moment.[/QUOTE]

£500 a day limit is not small to me bud. It cost me £1.99 to buy £50 of ether yesterday. Fees are less for bank transfers but I felt more comfortable using a debit card.

Not being a smart **** and have not tried it myself ( in it for the long game) convert to euro not sterling for easy withdrawals. That's the info I have researched about best ways to convert back to real money.


----------



## shaunyshaun1234

waqasr said:


> What I will say is, cryptos are here to stay, it maybe something you dont understand but trust they will change the future. Bitcoin has been said to be a bubble in the media 144 times or so, yet it goes up and up. It may not be physical in the traditional sense but there is only a limited supply, 21mil to be exact. The fiat money we use is only worth something because we believe it is, it started as gold backed currency but those days are long gone.
> 
> Anyway im up to 22k on an 8k investment in just 2 weeks. Wish I got in earlier.
> 
> Shameless plug here, if you want to register https://www.coinbase.com/join/593c3569bf2dea0a521823dc
> 
> Cheapest way to buy is below, otherwise you can use bittilicous or localbitcoins but pay a premium
> 
> 1) Download Revolut app and top it up with money from your bank
> 2) Exchange your GBP for EUR within Revolut app.
> 3) Send EUR from Revolut to your Coinbase EUR account.
> 4) Send EUR from Coinbase to GDAX (coinbase sister company) and buy your bitcoin, litecoin, ethereum here for market prices.
> 5) Send your Bitcoin/litecoin/Ethereum to an exchange to buy altcoins, exchanges like Bittrex, Poloniex and Binance are probably the best right now.
> 
> Sell your bitcoin on gdax (coinbase sister company) for Euros, send the euros to your revolut app, exchange euros to gbp and send to your bank.
> 
> It has to be done this way as coinbase doesnt support GBP deposits or withdrawals for now.


I've been reading some reviews of coinbase and many people are saying that having been waiting a couple of months for the withdrawal funds to hit their bank account and still not got it.

Have you successfully transferred money back to your bank account? If so, how long did it take?


----------



## uberbmw

whats with GDax.... "BTC/USD trading is not yet available in your region" ?


----------



## RedUntilDead

are we sitting tight guys, prices are dropping hard

Start of the the luner new year?

if litecoin drops to £135 i will up my stake from 0.536 so that i own a full one and just sit on it for a few years. No real reason other than gut feeling and lets see what happens. I havent lost anything because I havent pulled any cash out


----------



## uberbmw

Hodl!!!


----------



## Cookies

I bought into Ripple at $0.55 ish (after a bit of a kerfuffle) so it's getting uncomfortably close after being up over $3 last week. 

Cooks

Sent from my Wenger 16999


----------



## J1ODY A

what app you use to buy ripple?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## pxr5

Oops, another one:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42689642


----------



## MrG47

Bought ETH and LTC on coinbase. Waiting for Bitstamp verification process to buy Ripple. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## waqasr

shaunyshaun1234 said:


> I've been reading some reviews of coinbase and many people are saying that having been waiting a couple of months for the withdrawal funds to hit their bank account and still not got it.
> 
> Have you successfully transferred money back to your bank account? If so, how long did it take?


I actually havent done so yet but will do to test it out with a small amount, but im not worried about changing my cryptos back to fiat for a while yet and im sure there will be no problem doing so.

But yes folks the market is down right now, not surprising considering the huge bull run we had last month, people are taking their profits off the table and theres alot of FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) being spread.

This is a good time to accumulate and buy into good projects. Most importantly dont have weak hands and sell at a loss. Im over 10k down but still up on my initial investment, im just patient and known these rises and dips happen all the time. As they say, HOLD.


----------



## Cookies

J1ODY A said:


> what app you use to buy ripple?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Hi bud. I used etoro. Very straight forward.

Cooks

Sent from my Wenger 16999


----------



## shycho

What not to do:


----------



## Sam6er

So he lost his loan gambling on crypto currencies and now wants to take another loan to make up the loss!? Jesus this guy has a gambling problem!


----------



## waqasr

Worse still is he put all his money in Bitconnect, a well known ponzi scheme which if anyone had done the smallest bit of research they would have found out.


----------



## m500dpp

Bitcoin is holding just above the $10000 mark and has done all day so far. I suspect the market is being manipulated...................


----------



## DimitriUK

m500dpp said:


> Bitcoin is holding just above the $10000 mark and has done all day so far. I suspect the market is being manipulated...................


well bringing demogratisation to the idio... masses has some cost. all the crypto shιt is an elaborage scheme by the miners to milk the useful idiots, when you hear taxi drivers, pizza delivery boys talking bitcoin that is the signal to sell.


----------



## m500dpp

Anyone using USI Tech? pretty much certain it's a fraudulent ponzi:

http://behindmlm.com/companies/usi-tech/usi-tech-management-ignore-us-canada-focus-on-rest-of-world/


----------



## RedUntilDead

Seen the ad from binance on their first page? new users must deposit $10K in fiat or coins before they can trade. I registered a couple of weeks ago but not used it yet so not sure if I can trade or not yet.
I own a dust of bitcoin, one full litecoin and a 1/4 of ether, get me

PS including purchase fees, I am even at the minute.


----------



## m500dpp

Bitconnect has crashed, $400 coins are now $10 or so. Class action is claiming £770k in losses.

USI Tech if it goes will lose a lot of people a lot of money, situation is very uncertain at the moment.


----------



## uberbmw

bit connect was a big Ponzi scheme, all them you tubers getting people to invest in it then losing life savings etc!


----------



## m500dpp

I have to say it's time this whole thing was regulated. Several of my friends who I regard as intelligent have been sucked into USI and are oblivious to what is going on.

That said I'm still not 100% sure USI Tech is a scam but all the signs are there. Another cease and desist order has been issued by Saskatchewan, they have stopped paying out, and it's rumoured that the FCA, and the Australian equivalent are investigating together with Texas State.

If nothing else anyone with money in USI tech would be well advised to get the money out if they can. Oh USI have created their own coin now - sounds very like bitconnect!


----------



## waqasr

uberbmw said:


> bit connect was a big Ponzi scheme, all them you tubers getting people to invest in it then losing life savings etc!


Well they made hundreds of thousands through their referral links and got paid in bitcoin, so really they should be help accountable as they were promoting their services non stop.

Ive not done any reading on USI but everyone in this space should be very cautious of where they put their money, if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.


----------



## m500dpp

waqasr said:


> Well they made hundreds of thousands through their referral links and got paid in bitcoin, so really they should be help accountable as they were promoting their services non stop.
> 
> Ive not done any reading on USI but everyone in this space should be very cautious of where they put their money, if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.


As I understand it anyone who acts as a recruiter is liable just as you suggest.........there are a number of class suits already underway on bitconnect. Essentially the law is looking at the "winners" as having stolen the money from the losers and they will be required to pay the money back even if they have spent it. (God knows how long it will take though!)


----------



## shycho

Lloyds have taken a smart step forwards in preventing people from exchanging money from Credit Cards. 

I’d hate to be anyone who jumped on the BitCoin bandwagon for the first time back in October/November when prices were trading £10k higher than they are now. 

ICOs seem to be the latest fad for people to throw money at. Just look at BitConnect, such an obvious Ponzi scheme, but because it used new magical virtual currency so many people who have no place being around crypto currencies dived in.


----------



## pxr5

Ouch. Just read this - certainly some food for thought here.

Link

Coincidentally I also read this at the BBC today.

Link

I like the idea of Crypto currencies and the future is this sort of approach, but for now I think there are some real concerns


----------



## Jack R

Is anyone still investing in this??? has anyone got any advice on how to do it??? Is it worth it???


----------



## cossiecol

Here's my 2cents worth (for what it's worth)

There are so many possibilities for things to go wrong that FOR ME it's just not worth it.

For all I hate banks etc they have strict rules and regulations and are pretty good at keeping your data safe. Online traders etc have no such guidelines. 
Think about the information you're uploading to setup account on some sites, photographic id, bank details and or passport details, full address etc not worth it in my opinion.

I recall reading (I can't remember the source so take it with a piece of salt) that a lot of exchange sites actually install crypto mining software on your laptop.

For me, as much as I hate to say it, it's just not worth the risk just now.


----------



## minotaur uk

Im a regular trader and its worth it. But you need to do a lot of research on it. You can make a lot of money, like on the stock exchange but its more volatile.

Do a search on how to trade cryptocurrencies on google and have a read of various websites. Get a feel for what is involved and remember to trade with what you can afford to lose.


----------



## WristyManchego

Due to the fact that mining is now unfeasible, cryptocurrencies are a zero sum game. You are only making or losing money from other suckers in the system. It has no inherent value, despite what people say.



minotaur uk said:


> You can make a lot of money


And how much have you made clear profit?


----------



## fatdazza

minotaur uk said:


> Im a regular trader and its worth it. But you need to do a lot of research on it. You can make a lot of money, like on the stock exchange but its more volatile.
> 
> Do a search on how to trade cryptocurrencies on google and have a read of various websites. Get a feel for what is involved and remember to trade with what you can afford to lose.


Lol - you forgot to add you can also lose a lot of money :lol::lol:

"The value of investments can go down as well as up"

PS - I use the term investments very loosely in this regard.


----------



## minotaur uk

WristyManchego said:


> Due to the fact that mining is now unfeasible, cryptocurrencies are a zero sum game. You are only making or losing money from other suckers in the system. It has no inherent value, despite what people say.
> 
> And how much have you made clear profit?


Disagree with this, it all depends on the utility of the tokens. The finanical sector is gearing itself towards blockchain integration. As its an emerging market there will always be sceptics, which is natural. I'm not going to try and convince anyone you will make a million but its like anything else you can get good at what you do by working at it.

I dont mind telling people what I have made but in 16 months I have made 12k....which is not massive amounts compared to others I know.


----------



## WristyManchego

We’re talking cryptocurrency here, not blockchain.

Cryptocurrency is a zero sum game. Don’t confuse the two.

Blockchain will most definitely revolutionise the way the world transacts and does business however, it is yet to be utilised in a way that makes a significant difference to everyday life.

All crypto that exists now will NOT have anything to do with the way the world will utilise blockchain in the future. It’s a private market for trading basketball cards. Albeit expensive ones.


----------



## minotaur uk

WristyManchego said:


> We're talking cryptocurrency here, not blockchain.
> 
> Cryptocurrency is a zero sum game. Don't confuse the two.
> 
> Blockchain will most definitely revolutionise the way the world transacts and does business however, it is yet to be utilised in a way that makes a significant difference to everyday life.
> 
> All crypto that exists now will NOT have anything to do with the way the world will utilise blockchain in the future. It's a private market for trading basketball cards. Albeit expensive ones.


crypto is a result of blockchain, crypto exists on top of the blockchain ledger and used in some cases as a reward of mining or processing blocks. Some Crypto cant be mined and are used as utility tokens on the blockchain...but of course you already know this. I have had to deal with people, like yourself, who dont really understand the market, technology, blockchain companies that have actual real customers and the use that will impact certain industries. Anyway my final say is for people to do their own research and make up their own mind.


----------



## WristyManchego

Sounds like you’ve also drunk the kool-aid champ.

You’re speaking of two separate things here which are frequently rolled into one to increase the perceived value of crypto trading.

This isn’t the stock exchange where you’re the owner of a part of a business and have a vote. This isn’t the free money market where world economies are powered by the value of their currency. This is a closed-loop trading system who’s tokens have no inherent value.

Again. There is absolutely no doubt that blockchain will revolutionise how we do global trading and business however in its current format, no matter how advanced, it is simply a starting point and serves no significant purpose to the global market other than a proof of concept.

But sure, if you’re an avid gambler and enjoy the high risk, have at it and see if you can’t make a quid.

It’s important for people to realise that ‘doing some reading up’ typically takes them into pro-crypto circles whom either inflate their importance, speculate, shill or charge for information which provides them no advantage when trading.

The real game is to make money off the hype, which a select few are doing effectively.


----------



## shycho

Trading crypto currency still just feels like gambling too me. I wouldn't encourage people to "invest" in it, but if you want too feel free.



WristyManchego said:


> Due to the fact that mining is now unfeasible, cryptocurrencies are a zero sum game. You are only making or losing money from other suckers in the system. It has no inherent value, despite what people say.


Perhaps you need to read a book called "The Bitcoin Standard" it makes a compelling argument for linking money back to a fixed size currency/standard to stop governments printing money at will. As opposed to the USD which "has no inherent value despite what people say".



WristyManchego said:


> We're talking cryptocurrency here, not blockchain.
> 
> Cryptocurrency is a zero sum game. Don't confuse the two.
> 
> Blockchain will most definitely revolutionise the way the world transacts and does business however, it is yet to be utilised in a way that makes a significant difference to everyday life.
> 
> All crypto that exists now will NOT have anything to do with the way the world will utilise blockchain in the future. It's a private market for trading basketball cards. Albeit expensive ones.


Best of luck getting a decentralised blockchain to function without rewarding the miners via some sort of currency. Or are you of the opinion that a centralised blockchain will be the eventual winner? As that seems to defeat the purpose of blockchain technology.


----------



## DimitriUK

Crypto is a very sophisticated ponzy scheme.

The "value" of the bitcoin arises because of the "difficulty" of mining it.

Silly question, why you do not distribute randomly the 2m bitcoins to anyone interested and done without the waste of electicity?

At the end of the day people that use the blockchain technology on which bitcoin is based do not "mine something" to prove that a transaction has taken place. Why for bitcoin you need the mining?

This is the question that someone believing in bitcoin must be asking before putting any money into it.

The real reason, after all the bs about why someone is buying bitcoin, is that a greater fool will be found before the music stops.


----------



## DimitriUK

shycho said:


> As opposed to the USD which "has no inherent value despite what people say".


I think you wanted to say "the USD, or any other currency that is not backed by real assets, has no inherent value except at the time that you have to pay your taxes".

At that point the USD looks very valuable to me.


----------



## m500dpp

I am involved in a number of anti scamming groups. Anything that involves bitcoin is a scam. Trading bitcoin itself is fixed by secret groups working together on telegram groups to pump and then dump these are the people who make money on cryptos are those on the inside or at the top of a ponzi scheme.

There are at least 1000 crypto based scams active at any one time, latest trend is forex trading bots - which of course dont work. Avoid anything to do with Bitcoin and cryptos or live to regret it


----------



## m500dpp

Oh if you want an example of how great these cryptos and coin offerings are take a look here
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-ne...d06MX8HGh7DlbXsE0YwQCeh8QkAOJYg7PLkSuVMwyozik

The CEO is a convicted fraudster, cryptos are a criminals' gift


----------



## pxr5

Years ago I nearly bought some Bitcoins to be a able make a donation. This was when it first started out. I wished I had now as they'd be a lot more than I would have paid for them as no one really new about them then. Even then I could see the benefit of blockchains and crypto currencies. Then something went mad - it turned into an investment to make money on. Enter the hordes to make a quick buck and from there it went bad. Eventually all the chaos of greed will calm down and there will be stability as I believe this is were the future is for making financial transactions. Unfortunately, right now, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.


----------



## minotaur uk

m500dpp said:


> Oh if you want an example of how great these cryptos and coin offerings are take a look here
> https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-ne...d06MX8HGh7DlbXsE0YwQCeh8QkAOJYg7PLkSuVMwyozik
> 
> The CEO is a convicted fraudster, cryptos are a criminals' gift


This is no different to the dot com bubble ? Major companies such as Citigroup and Merrill Lynch were fined for misleading investors. A lot of people lost money and a lot of companies went bust. Some people prior to the dot com bubble said the internet was a fad and will not last.

Sounds a lot like what people are saying about the crypto market right now....


----------



## m500dpp

Nothing to do with dot com bubble this was an outright scam......they never bought power plants the whole thing is complete lies....


----------



## minotaur uk

yeah definitely a scam.....

https://www.ccn.com/crypto-invades-nasdaq-institutional-adoption

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...fer-cryptocurrency-trading-within-a-few-weeks (Fidelity has around 6 trillion in asset management)

https://www.bakkt.com/index (the owner of the New York stock exchange has started this international exchange)


----------



## shycho

So BitCoin is proving to be quite the stubborn bubble eh?


----------



## kingswood

7p each a decade ago


----------



## 20vKarlos

I watched Bitcoin go from £4000 to £13,000 and then in less that an hour it dropped to £7000 and stayed there for ages... I know it’s gone back up recently, but will it last??


----------



## Trix

Fast approaching $40,000 today :wall:


----------



## Ctreanor13

I bought €10 worth of Bitcoin on Revolut for the craic at the end of October and it's now worth €27.63. personally, I think Bitcoin is a great, but incredibly risky, way of making money as long as you know the risk and what's involved.


----------



## Rayaan

Made triple figures from it in 6 months - my wife thought I was mad when I bought BTC last year at £4k. I bought 10. 

She's no longer complaining


----------



## Darlofan

Can you cash them in or just spend them in Starbucks etc?


----------



## fatdazza

Rayaan said:


> Made triple figures from it in 6 months - my wife thought I was mad when I bought BTC last year at £4k. I bought 10.
> 
> She's no longer complaining


Nice gain - are you going to tell the taxman?


----------



## Rayaan

fatdazza said:


> Nice gain - are you going to tell the taxman?


Of course. As I understand it, capital gains on crypto has a personal allowance of £12k and then taxed much better than a wage. i.e. i think id only pay about £15k which is nothing compared to what I made.

Stocked up on a few more last night too.


----------



## organgrinder

Rayaan said:


> Of course. As I understand it, capital gains on crypto has a personal allowance of £12k and then taxed much better than a wage. i.e. i think id only pay about £15k which is nothing compared to what I made.
> 
> Stocked up on a few more last night too.


Unless HMRC see you buying and selling a few times and tell you that they think it is trading not just an investment. At that point normal income tax rules replace Capital Gains Tax.

I don't know if you can but much safer to do it within an ISA if that is allowed.

It's purely personal but  I see Crypto as massively risky, potentially open to fraud and ultimately, if it becomes too successful, something that Governments will take control of, or shut down.


----------



## kingswood

old thread......wonder how the coins mentioned have faired?

bit late to the party but a few lads at gym have got me on evergrow coin, trebled my 'money' in a week!


----------



## kingswood

shycho said:


> Just to give you a little indication on the volatility of crypto currencies. Bitcoin has dropped by approximately 25% / £500 in the last couple of days.
> It could bounce back again within a week or so, or it could tank further nobody can say for certain, but that is a big correction!


hindsight er?!


----------



## Trix

Cookies said:


> Sorry chum, I genuinely didn't understand a word of that. Lol. I'm slowly turning into my dad!
> 
> Must do a bit of research to understand what you whippersnappers are talking about these days.
> 
> Cooks
> 
> Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk


:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## virgiltracey

I've got my hands in a couple of coins, amazing return on Shib this week, but that seems to be community driven rather than the actual tech behind it.

Coins i'm holding are ADA, DOT, XRP and XTZ - these have decent tech behind them and should see growth in the coming years. XTZ is well marketed especially... its on both the Red Bull and Mclaren f1 cars


----------



## kingswood

virgiltracey said:


> I've got my hands in a couple of coins, amazing return on Shib this week, but that seems to be community driven rather than the actual tech behind it.
> 
> Coins i'm holding are ADA, DOT, XRP and XTZ - these have decent tech behind them and should see growth in the coming years. XTZ is well marketed especially... its on both the Red Bull and Mclaren f1 cars


have a look at evergrow, dubbed the new shib in many forums


----------



## Rayaan

Im still running on about 100% profits since I started despite the slump in the market.

Im going to be holding BTC and ETH for the long term. I genuinely expect BTC to cross $100k and ETH to atleast go over $5k. ADA is definitely promising too. I can remember when I bought ETH for £160 each just over a year ago and its lucky I kept hold of it as its over £2k now. Anything is possible

ROSE did very well for me earlier in the year. Almost 300% profit. 

The ones to keep an eye on right now in my opinion are MANA, SAND, AVAX, ATOM, NEAR and LUNA

Ive got around 27 coins at the moment.


----------



## Darlofan

I used PayPal app to buy mine, just as a tester. Really haven't got a clue but thought it worth a punt.
Had bitcoin and ethereum for about 3months and watched them increase and decrease between 10%. Sold them yesterday and made just under 10% on them. Will have another look when funds allow.


----------



## Rayaan

Darlofan said:


> I used PayPal app to buy mine, just as a tester. Really haven't got a clue but thought it worth a punt.
> Had bitcoin and ethereum for about 3months and watched them increase and decrease between 10%. Sold them yesterday and made just under 10% on them. Will have another look when funds allow.


I would hold them longer than that.

I reckon even if you put some money in now, no matter how much it is into bitcoin or ethereum, in 2 years itll be atleast double in my opinion.


----------



## sebjonesy

Rayaan said:


> Im still running on about 100% profits since I started despite the slump in the market.
> 
> Im going to be holding BTC and ETH for the long term. I genuinely expect BTC to cross $100k and ETH to atleast go over $5k. ADA is definitely promising too. I can remember when I bought ETH for £160 each just over a year ago and its lucky I kept hold of it as its over £2k now. Anything is possible
> 
> ROSE did very well for me earlier in the year. Almost 300% profit.
> 
> The ones to keep an eye on right now in my opinion are MANA, SAND, AVAX, ATOM, NEAR and LUNA
> 
> Ive got around 27 coins at the moment.


I've been watching MANA for a few months now - finally took a punt on it now after reading this


----------



## Rayaan

sebjonesy said:


> I've been watching MANA for a few months now - finally took a punt on it now after reading this


MANA may not go up massively in the short term but I think its a brilliant long term investment. I expect it to be worth a lot more in 5-10 years. Much more than any bank could give you!


----------



## Mercurio

Rayaan said:


> I would hold them longer than that.
> 
> I reckon even if you put some money in now, no matter how much it is into bitcoin or ethereum, in 2 years itll be atleast double in my opinion.


God damn it, it is sad that I saw your message only now. Because I have already exchanged all my BTCs via crypto wallet in a panic of depreciation of cryptocurrency. 

I think that in a couple of years I will be the first crying about my "too active" decisions, haha.


----------



## Rayaan

Mercurio said:


> God damn it, it is sad that I saw your message only now. Because I have already exchanged all my BTCs via crypto wallet in a panic of depreciation of cryptocurrency.
> 
> I think that in a couple of years I will be the first crying about my "too active" decisions, haha.


The whole crypto is dead stuff has been going on for maybe a decade now. Its just cycles and very similiar to the stock market in that regard.

I think overall the macroeconomic outlook currently is poor with inflation, energy prices, fuel costs and the ukraine war. That means a lot of people are cashing out causing prices to fall. 

The whales are still accumulating regardless and there will be a large bounceback after this has all brushed over. Itd be smart to invest now for the long term when prices are so low


----------

