# Fade-out spray...how important?



## maxp

I'll be working on a few panels next month doing some spot repairs and covering the entire panel in a clear coat is totally over the top for these little jobs in question.

Ill need some way of blending the clear coat / laquer with the existing clear coat on the unmarked surfaces of the panel.

Can I 'blend' the clear coat by increasing the radius of the sprayed zone by an inch or two each coat, or should I use something like 'u-pol fadeout spray' which I have read about recently?


(By the way, ill be using aerosols, so will not have the ability to mix the paints myself)


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## moosh

Good luck thats all i will say and yes fadeout will be essential in trying to fade out clear coat, with the colour if you on your last coat hold the can further away in a dusting fashion to blend the colour. the clear is not the same case but as you say you work from the centre out and move out further each coat.

With the new types of paints and acrylic clears it is very hard to get a good match and blow in.


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## maxp

Sounds tricky...what sort of results should I expect if I forgoe the clearcoat altogether and just try a good wax on the base after it has properly dried?

By the way the colour factory colour is glossy non-metallic black.


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## moosh

maxp said:


> Sounds tricky...what sort of results should I expect if I forgoe the clearcoat altogether and just try a good wax on the base after it has properly dried?
> 
> By the way the colour factory colour is glossy non-metallic black.


It sure is tricky, I find it harder working with aerosols than the gun! Far easier with the gun, so are you saying it is a solid black (non metallic) if that's the case you could get the colour in a solid (gloss) which will mean you don't need to use clear.

Do you have a machine polisher or DA? If you were to repair the area, rub down the area as required to prime then once you flatten the primer go beyond the repair area with 1500 so that when you paint the area you can polish it all back up together if that makes sense?


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## maxp

I have a decent random orbital sander in the shed, but none of the pads or liquids / compounds that are required for car polishing.

Here is a picture of the colour for reference.

http://i.imgur.com/8EZYi.jpg

Still undecided:
1 - Just use a decent 2k aerosol clear coat and zap the whole panel.
2 - Forgo the clear coat altogether and use orbital sander with some pads and compounds to bring the gloss into the base coat.
3 - Fork out for a compressor / gun / paint outfit (last resort, but still far cheaper than the bodyshop quoted me).

???


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## mr paint

maxp said:


> I have a decent random orbital sander in the shed, but none of the pads or liquids / compounds that are required for car polishing.
> 
> Here is a picture of the colour for reference.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/8EZYi.jpg
> 
> Still undecided:
> 1 - Just use a decent 2k aerosol clear coat and zap the whole panel.
> 2 - Forgo the clear coat altogether and use orbital sander with some pads and compounds to bring the gloss into the base coat.
> 3 - Fork out for a compressor / gun / paint outfit (last resort, but still far cheaper than the bodyshop quoted me).
> 
> ???


You need to research a little more !

base coat is applied in a wet coat then dries to a matt finish this is to show you 1 it has dryed 2 its ready for next coat

the clear coat is what makes it shine !

i would buy a course polish like 3m fast cut or ferecla g3 polish the panel first this will put micro scratches and will clean the area for the blend

do your repairs prime etc allow over night

sand your primer then sand with 1000 grit around the area your going to do your colour blend then get a grey scotch brite pad and scuff the area where the clear will land

when your ready for paint de- grease the area

lay your base coat in the 1000g area fading out as you go

let dry then spray your clear coat over the repairs then fading out into the scoth brite area ....the last coat as you fan into the existing shiny original paint ....if you get a run at this point your screwed !

just after your last coat you will have overspray/dry spray on the outside of your repair ..this is where you get your fade out thinners in a can and melt the dry spray into the previously polished panel .

wait prob about 1-2 weeks using cans for to cure

wet sand the area if needed with 2000g paper lightly then machine polish with a med compound/polish

we as trained can struggle to do a perfect clear blend with spray guns so good luck if using cans !!

hope this helps

tommy


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## mr paint

WOW ...... just saw the pic you put up 

that is not a small repair that looks like it need some major atention !


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## maxp

Hi Tommy,

That is a brilliant reply 

Two small questions - 

As I understand, youre saying spray the final layer of clearcoat over the 'existing / original' clearcoat by about an inch and spray that 'overspray' with blender?

Im sure I have seen another video where the final clearcoat is sprayed onto a scuffed surface rather than a 'untouched' surface for the final clear blend?

Secondly, what are youre thoughts on just clearing the entire panel? Its not the money of the cans im worried about, more the quality of the finish.


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## edzt

I know it's not constructive but you could end up devaluing a nice car
If you do attempt it, take the repair to the edge of the panel or the swage lines


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## Andyb0127

That's not a small repair, as it looks like the car is a lotus, you do realise that's glass fibre and that looks suspiciousally like the gel coat is lifting, if that's the case, using aerosol cans to attempt to repair it.

Honestly don't bother id save up and have it repaired professionally at a bodyshop.

Just attempting to put black basecoat over and then polish it would just be a waste of time, why don't u just get quotes from a bodyshop and also see if a smart repair would be possible.


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## Andyb0127

maxp said:


> Hi Tommy,
> 
> That is a brilliant reply
> 
> Two small questions -
> 
> As I understand, youre saying spray the final layer of clearcoat over the 'existing / original' clearcoat by about an inch and spray that 'overspray' with blender?
> 
> Im sure I have seen another video where the final clearcoat is sprayed onto a scuffed surface rather than a 'untouched' surface for the final clear blend?
> 
> Secondly, what are youre thoughts on just clearing the entire panel? Its not the money of the cans im worried about, more the quality of the finish.


Your not going to get that much quality out of aerosol cans really, if your bothered about the quality take my advice has it done properly.


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## squiggs

I wouldn't touch that and I consider myself to be pretty good at spraying with a gun.
Along with the two above posts there's 1 (him) and 3 quarter (me) professionals advising you not to do it.

Even if it were a *normal* car I'd advise against doing an area of repair like that using diy methods.

But worse than that ... I believe lotus are made from a weird composite material that by all accounts can in some instances absorb moisture. 
From the pic I would say that the paint has bubbled because of moisture, and if I'm correct it's moisture in the actual panel. If this is the case and you were to try the repair yourself not only would you end up with a bad rattle can job but you wouldn't solve the problem and only make it worse.

Take a trawl on a lotus site and seek some advice.


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## Andyb0127

squiggs said:


> I wouldn't touch that and I consider myself to be pretty good at spraying with a gun.
> Along with the two above posts there's 1 (him) and 3 quarter (me) professionals advising you not to do it.
> 
> Even if it were a *normal* car I'd advise against doing an area of repair like that using diy methods.
> 
> But worse than that ... I believe lotus are made from a weird composite material that by all accounts can in some instances absorb moisture.
> From the pic I would say that the paint has bubbled because of moisture, and if I'm correct it's moisture in the actual panel. If this is the case and you were to try the repair yourself not only would you end up with a bad rattle can job but you wouldn't solve the problem and only make it worse.
> 
> Take a trawl on a lotus site and seek some advice.


Squiggs is right if recall correctly there made from a carbon composite :thumb:


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## maxp

Decided to pass on the aerosol route and get a pro to do it. 
As long as the GRP has dried underneath, I think Isopon p38 will work as a filler, followed by a coat of epoxy primer (i think).

The blisters by the way, were caused by lotus, although there is no chance of them accepting liability on a car this old.

After the shells were built, they were stored in a damp warehouse before spraying.
The GRP still had moisture in it when it was painted. Invisible at the time, but come winter, the water froze, expanded, and pushed the gelcoat from the GRP.

Similar to how potholes occur in winter.


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## sammatty

If it is similar to osmosis in yacht GRP, then could an epoxy primer be used to seal the GRP fully?


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## maxp

I think so. I think its worthwhile anyway.

http://www.osmosis.co.nz/solution/step6.html


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## mr paint

glad your getting it done properly mate good luck 

tommy


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## squiggs

maxp said:


> Decided to pass on the aerosol route and get a pro to do it.


Good news .... but they're not GRP! 
Make sure you use somebody that knows what their dealing with or you'll just be chucking your money away.

Where are you from? I know someone in Cambs who doesn't usually have a problem when dealing with lotus probs.


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## mitchelld

hey, i wouldnt go painting that with aerosols, too nice a car for that, never will u get the same finish out a can as you would a gun.

as stated from what i know lotus bodies are all ?? fibreglass, looks like either splashed brake fluid, or a lot of heat causing the paint to blister. if its the gel coating on the fibreglass ( i dont know the make up of lotus bodywork) there will be filling work underneath.



for what its worth, im not a painter at the minute but i did serve my time at it, problems encountered with fibreglass were pretty copmmon, ie, gel coating with nothing behind it when we baked the paint the air in the holes expanded n burst ryt through the pain, crazy stuff.

however. deffo be better getting whole panel cleared with a gun.


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## chris chappell

Just doing a blend in repair on my metallic black bee em. Have bought £100 worth of filler, primer, basecoat, thinners, rubbing block, wet and dry, 2 pack lacquer, fade out thinners etc
It isn’t easy. I have filled defects with stopper which is a very smooth filler and religiously rubbed down. Applied thick sandable primer and rubbed down until like glass. Applied base then 2 pack clear blended with fade out thinners. All applied with an airbrush. It looks a right mess!!!!
What seems to be ultra smooth when you rub it down certainly isn’t when it’s painted!!!
Will have another go at it flatting down etc again and if that doesn’t work it’s into a body shop.
Anybody want to buy some paint????😂😂


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## NorthantsPete

fr god sake dont use cheap clearcoat, ive just resprayed due to trusting halfords get in stock that actually works.

2k clearcoat is what you need, the one you mix and is good for 24 hours tops. Wear protection, its lethal stuff.

Blend spray , 777 is an amazing product, you cant see the blend line at all! just spray it on straight after the last coat of clear and make sure you buy plenty of clearcoat, i ran out pretty quick.

it wont be perfect but on my £900 car i really just wanted it to look better than it was (dented, rusty, scratched) and it is.

Oh and get soem decent compounds, i found after the wet sanding i couldnt get anythign to cut good enough, so went to those who know paint ad got some G3 premium.


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