# Bird Poo Etching?



## ashleyman (May 17, 2016)

Hi there,

First post on here as I'm a little confused and worried about how to fix this.

I've got a 6 week old Golf R in Deep Black Pearl. When I took delivery it got a full decontamination, prewash, wash, seal and wax. It then got waxed again about 3 weeks ago. Either I didn't do a good job or the product is rubbish as it's worn off.

It had 1 coat of black hole, 1 coat of Prima Amigo and a coat of Pete's 53 Wax.

Anyway, parked in my assigned space at my flats which is under a tree. Came out on Saturday morning to find a monstrous bird poo sat on my bonnet. I had it off within a couple of hours but I'm now noticing that it's left some residue.

I sent these photos off to a detailer this morning and he said it needed wet sanding, polish and sealing. Would you agree with that opinion?

So far I have rinsed the car off, given it a wash, tried AutoGlym tar remover and some IPA spray and this is whats left. I plan to try and clay the bonnet asap to see if it takes it off. I've got no experience in polishing or using a DA so if it needed further attention after a clay then it would need to go to a pro.

This was the car before the poo incident:




This is the car now:


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## SystemClenz (Oct 31, 2008)

Doesn't look too bad and can probably just be machined out, this isn't a big job to be honest, and you refer to clay baring it, this won't improve this whatsoever, perhaps take it to the detailer and let them fix it.


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## ashleyman (May 17, 2016)

SystemClenz said:


> Doesn't look too bad and can probably just be machined out, this isn't a big job to be honest, and you refer to clay baring it, this won't improve this whatsoever, perhaps take it to the detailer and let them fix it.


I thought clay barring might help as I can feel some difference between the stain and the paintwork.

I just wasn't sure if I should take his opinion of a wet sand seriously or not as it conflicted with my opinion on it.


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## SystemClenz (Oct 31, 2008)

Always go with the least aggressive method working upwards, so try some polish by hand, if that fails you'll need a machine with a fine polish and polishing pad etc etc until it's gone, wet sanding may be required but that's the last option.

Funnily enough I had to remove a bird poo stain today, I did this with a rotary on a polishing pad and medium compound.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Polishing by machine will do the trick. :buffer:


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

I would even have a go by hand with a mild polish...

Girl at work had a bunch of limescale residue on her car from a water leak in a multi-storey car park. Couldn't shift it with anything.

I brought in my DAS6 with pads and Menzerna final polish and V36 polish fully expecting to need it all. Ended up putting a blob of the Menzerna polish on the white pad and buffed it out by hand....job done!

It was a 52 Seat with tonnes of scratches and so wasn't afraid to have a go. She's happy the big white blobs are gone and I was surprised I could shift it with relative ease with such a fine polish combo by hand....

Anyway...maybe worth a shot? Appreciate your car/etching/circumstances might be completely different!


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## ashleyman (May 17, 2016)

DrEskimo said:


> I would even have a go by hand with a mild polish...
> 
> Girl at work had a bunch of limescale residue on her car from a water leak in a multi-storey car park. Couldn't shift it with anything.
> 
> ...


I could get access to a machine polisher and perhaps some pads and polish but I don't know anything about polishing at all.

Could you recommend specific products or even link them so I can buy them? I'm terrible at deciphering detailing speak!! Sorry.


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## ashleyman (May 17, 2016)

SystemClenz said:


> Always go with the least aggressive method working upwards, so try some polish by hand, if that fails you'll need a machine with a fine polish and polishing pad etc etc until it's gone, wet sanding may be required but that's the last option.


That looks fantastic! I have some Meguiars Ultimate Polish here will that do anything? I don't have any pads but I've got microfibres and foam/wool applicator pads.

Anything more than that and I'll need to do a shop. If you could link anything specific that would be great and I can order it to have a go at the weekend.


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## fozzy (Oct 22, 2009)

I got a rather large bird etching out on Sunday on the daughters little Blue Polo runabout.
Medium pad with Menzerna 3500 so non-aggressive use of anything and it came out in two hits no problem. Only problem is she now has a really shiny front wing and thinks I should do the rest :wall:


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

ashleyman said:


> I could get access to a machine polisher and perhaps some pads and polish but I don't know anything about polishing at all.
> 
> Could you recommend specific products or even link them so I can buy them? I'm terrible at deciphering detailing speak!! Sorry.


Have a go with the Megs polish and a MF applicator. Make sure you give it a IPA wipe down after to make sure its actually done, then if it has, re wax and jobs a gooden! :thumb:


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

fozzy said:


> I got a rather large bird etching out on Sunday on the daughters little Blue Polo runabout.
> Medium pad with Menzerna 3500 so non-aggressive use of anything and it came out in two hits no problem. Only problem is she now has a really shiny front wing and thinks I should do the rest :wall:


Haha I was worried about making a clean spot on my mates car as well! Thankfully I was under no obligation to correct the whole car


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

ashleyman said:


> That looks fantastic! I have some Meguiars Ultimate Polish here will that do anything? I don't have any pads but I've got microfibres and foam/wool applicator pads.
> 
> Anything more than that and I'll need to do a shop. If you could link anything specific that would be great and I can order it to have a go at the weekend.


Give the Megs ago by hand, you never know. Where are you located, might be someone close by to help out.


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## jj9 (Jun 11, 2015)

Has bird crap suddenly became a lot more acidic or are these stains down to the rubbish paint the manufactures are using?

Surely as consumers we shouldn't have to put up with this, a next to new car having to be machine polished to get rid of stains left by bird droppings.


What's the score?



Cheers.


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

jj9 said:


> Has bird crap suddenly became a lot more acidic or are these stains down to the rubbish paint the manufactures are using?
> 
> Surely as consumers we shouldn't have to put up with this, a next to new car having to be machine polished to get rid of stains left by bird droppings.
> 
> ...


It's got more to do with the lacquer cooling and shrinking under the poo rather than the acid in the poo. A few sealant companies got into trouble for stating that their coatings protected against bird etching, I think it was Autoglym that proved them wrong


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## jj9 (Jun 11, 2015)

Yeah but my point is the lacquer should be durable enough to withstand contamination of this nature (Bird droppings, etc.)


Cheers.


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

I'm no paint expert but I guess it has to have some flexibility otherwise it would crack or smash of in big chunks due to stones. Making it flexible means it will soften in the sun. I'm not sure if the older types of paint were better then the modern water based paints, I'm sure someone will know better.


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## ashleyman (May 17, 2016)

Darlofan said:


> Give the Megs ago by hand, you never know. Where are you located, might be someone close by to help out.


I'll give that a go when I've had time to properly wash it again. I've had it parked out on the street as much as possible to stop it being under the tree.

I'm located in Sutton, Surrey. I'll do the hand polish here at home but if it doesn't work and I need a DA and some pads I'll go and borrow my uncles garage and DA for an afternoon which is in Dorking.


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## ashleyman (May 17, 2016)

jj9 said:


> Has bird crap suddenly became a lot more acidic or are these stains down to the rubbish paint the manufactures are using?
> 
> Surely as consumers we shouldn't have to put up with this, a next to new car having to be machine polished to get rid of stains left by bird droppings.
> 
> ...


Where I used to live it was quite small droppings about the size of a 50p. I have no idea what bird was sitting above my car but the poo that was on the bonnet was about the size of a basketball and wasn't flat - it looked like it had dead whole worms in it surrounded by other stuff. I would post a photo but it's pretty brutal!!

I'm really disappointed I'm potentially having to machine polish my brand new car even though it had sealant, glaze and a wax on it. I'd have thought the paint would have been strong enough to deal with a bird poo that was 4 hours old but it wasn't!


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## jj9 (Jun 11, 2015)

ashleyman said:


> Where I used to live it was quite small droppings about the size of a 50p. I have no idea what bird was sitting above my car but the poo that was on the bonnet was about the size of a basketball and wasn't flat - it looked like it had dead whole worms in it surrounded by other stuff. I would post a photo but it's pretty brutal!!
> 
> I'm really disappointed I'm potentially having to machine polish my brand new car even though it had sealant, glaze and a wax on it. I'd have thought the paint would have been strong enough to deal with a bird poo that was 4 hours old but it wasn't!


It sounds like you have an Eagle targeting your car 

Now I'm no paint expert but I've noticed over the years that the paint on cars has become very delicate with regards to bird droppings, even the smallest droppings seem to easily stain paint.

Yes sure, even years ago the old paints could suffer staining if the bird muck was left sitting there for weeks while you waited for the rain to eventually wash it off for you, but not to the extent you seem to get now.

The paint on cars is getting worse rather than better, no doubt down to the water based rubbish they are using these days in an attempt to save us all from the fictitious hole in the ozone they have apparently found  (Taxed for something we can't see and many scientists dispute the existence of)

Just like you I wouldn't want my brand new car machine polished either and I don't think it's something you should have to do.

I think it's reasonable to assume that car paint should be fit for the environment it is going to be used in, so it should be durable enough to withstand bird droppings for a period of time without damage and the paint on your car is clearly not.

Personally if I were in your shoes I would be back to VW like a shot.

Cheers.


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## ashleyman (May 17, 2016)

jj9 said:


> It sounds like you have an Eagle targeting your car
> 
> Now I'm no paint expert but I've noticed over the years that the paint on cars has become very delicate with regards to bird droppings, even the smallest droppings seem to easily stain paint.
> 
> ...


You make some very good points. I've raised it with the supplying dealer. I agree it shouldn't have marked at all. Hopefully he agrees and something can be done about it.


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## organisys (Jan 3, 2012)

SystemClenz said:


> Always go with the least aggressive method working upwards, so try some polish by hand


This. You might not even need a machine polish.

Start with Autoglym SRP, then something like Dodo Lime Prime on a German applicator.


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## organisys (Jan 3, 2012)

jj9 said:


> Yeah but my point is the lacquer should be durable enough to withstand contamination of this nature (Bird droppings, etc.)
> 
> Cheers.


Sadly we don't live in an ideal world.

As far as I know, no paint/coating system has been invented which is impervious to all environmental contaminants. Even if it had, it might cost a bit!

Also, I will let you into a secret ;-) cars are designed and manufactured to a cost, and to a certain extent are designed to have a limited lifespan, otherwise you wouldn't buy a replacement soon enough to keep car manufacturers turnovers high. ;-)


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## ashleyman (May 17, 2016)

organisys said:


> This. You might not even need a machine polish.
> 
> Start with Autoglym SRP, then something like Dodo Lime Prime on a German applicator.


I've already tried with Meguiars Ultimate Polish. I've tried claying. I've put in an order for some Chemical Guys VSS, an orange pad and a DA.

I guess I could pop down to Halfords and get some SRP and a German but is there any point if I plan to polish it off now?


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## Clyde (Feb 15, 2012)

ashleyman said:


> I'll give that a go when I've had time to properly wash it again. I've had it parked out on the street as much as possible to stop it being under the tree.
> 
> I'm located in Sutton, Surrey. I'll do the hand polish here at home but if it doesn't work and I need a DA and some pads I'll go and borrow my uncles garage and DA for an afternoon which is in Dorking.


I'm in Wallington mate, so if you need some polish or anything drop me a PM. Got shed loads of gear and a flex 3401, but wouldn't want to use that on someone elses car. Same happened to my car last weekend and I've got two large stains to deal with.


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## Mikej857 (Jan 17, 2012)

All the SRP will do is mask the etching as its full of fillers

It sounds like you've tried everything already and its hasn't removed it so the next step is to machine the area

I had the same problem recently, the bird dropping had been left for literally a couple of hours and it left quite a bad etching mark, I ended up having to machine the panel with a microfibre pad and some menzerna 400 to remove it


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

Might of been alright getting it out by hand on other cars, but VAG paint is notoriously difficult to polish. How its still so easy to etch and swirl is beyond me...perhaps some paint/clear coat experts can clear that up for me...!?


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## jj9 (Jun 11, 2015)

ashleyman said:


> You make some very good points. I've raised it with the supplying dealer. I agree it shouldn't have marked at all. Hopefully he agrees and something can be done about it.


Hope you get a result, if you don't I would take it further, VW customer services to start with, and see where that gets you.

You may have timing on your side at the moment with the recent emission scandal, they may be trying their best to keep their remaining customers happy!

Good luck, keep us posted.

Cheers.


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## jj9 (Jun 11, 2015)

organisys said:


> Sadly we don't live in an ideal world.
> 
> As far as I know, no paint/coating system has been invented which is impervious to all environmental contaminants. Even if it had, it might cost a bit!


You know what I'm saying  
I'm not suggesting manufactures should use a paint system that is up there with what NASA use on it's space craft but I think it's reasonable to expect the paint on a brand new car to withstand a little bit of Pigeon crap every now & then without staining like ashleyman's has.



organisys said:


> Also, I will let you into a secret ;-) cars are designed and manufactured to a cost, and to a certain extent are designed to have a limited lifespan, otherwise you wouldn't buy a replacement soon enough to keep car manufacturers turnovers high. ;-)


You think that's a secret  

Joe bloggs walking into a car dealership and buying a new car won't even register on their statistic chart.

I'll tell you something that you have probably not realised....it's the Government that is helping keep the manufactures turnover high by dishing out Motability payments which equate to 575,000 motability cars on the road, these are normally replaced every 3 years that's a huge turnover and also predictable so easy to forecast.

All manufacturers are also now pushing lease cars, they want a regular turn over to keep the industry going, they can forecast their turnover when they know when the lease cars will be coming back!

The 4 year MOT on new cars is also being debated, this is confirmation if you needed it of what the lifespan of new cars is going to be....sure you may be able to keep a car going longer than 4 years but it will cost you so much in tax it won't be a viable option!

You got any more secrets? 

Cheers.


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

Have you tried this :


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## Clyde (Feb 15, 2012)

Managed to catch up with Ashley yesterday and removed etching using Scholl S17 and a AF hand puc with microfiber attachment. Really surprised it came off by hand as I've always thought etching needed wet sanding.


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## ashleyman (May 17, 2016)

Clyde said:


> Managed to catch up with Ashley yesterday and removed etching using Scholl S17 and a AF hand puc with microfiber attachment. Really surprised it came off by hand as I've always thought etching needed wet sanding.


MASSIVE thanks for coming out to help me. It's all sorted now and is looking better than new!

Amazed at how well the bonnet came out by hand. Thanks for also fixing the other issue on the A-pillar. :buffer:


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## jj9 (Jun 11, 2015)

ashleyman said:


> You make some very good points. I've raised it with the supplying dealer. I agree it shouldn't have marked at all. Hopefully he agrees and something can be done about it.


Did you get a reply of any sort from the dealer on this?

Cheers.


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## ashleyman (May 17, 2016)

jj9 said:


> Did you get a reply of any sort from the dealer on this?
> 
> Cheers.


We removed the first lot of etching by hand before it went back in to the dealer. But I've been unlucky enough to have another load happen in a different spot but still on the bonnet.

Car is with the supplying dealer being looked at but so far no comment on the paintwork.


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## jj9 (Jun 11, 2015)

Make sure to push them on the issue and get a responce from them, their paintwork is not fit for purpose.

Let us know what happens.


Cheers.


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