# Would you still buy a manual car?



## sat1983 (Jan 27, 2007)

Dealer told me that cars like a 3-5 series, A4-A6's are mostly auto and buying a second hand manual one of these would be financial suicide.

I'm interested in a 2017 A4 manual. Does it make sense or not??


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## TonyHill (Jul 28, 2015)

If you want a manual, buy a manual. Who cares what the dealer thinks! It's your car that you'll be driving every day. That's what I'd do anyway:thumb:


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## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

Pretty much what Tony says :thumb:


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## Philb1965 (Jun 29, 2010)

Personally yes. Much more robust in my opinion, the dsg boxes need servicing about every 40k. Google dsg problems, mechatronic issues, expensive. Have you driven one? The dsgs can also have an initial delay which some people can’t live with, didn’t bother me that much. I had an A6 C8 and if you wanted a relaxed cruiser and did lots of stop start driving then it was great. Repair bills would always be the worry out of warranty. £££
Chances of manual issue are way less, I’ve gone back to one and don’t regret it. Easier to choose the gear you want and you do feel more involved.

Depends on driving type and your attitude to potential servicing/repair costs.


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## mar00 (Jun 24, 2018)

if you paying cash and keep your cars a good few years not much difference financially, if its what you prefer why not,

bigger cars do tend to be autos now, but still plenty of manual A4's around , but I wouldn't listen to dealers that much in my experience they don't know much about cars,


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Financial suicide is a bit much. Autos will have higher residuals and are generally more desirable but the initial cost is also higher.

Both our cars are auto and I'm not sure I could go back but that's my personal preference and I wouldn't let dealer scaremongering put you off the car you want. 

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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Manual all the way for me. I like interacting with a car and to row through the gears. :driver:


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

I have just bought a manual,ill get a auto when i retire... Maybe 

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## baxlin (Oct 8, 2007)

Yes. And did, although Mrs B has and auto, and I’m quite happy to drive it.

The three wheeler has a sequential box. Now that’s fun!


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## Radish293 (Mar 16, 2012)

Auto for me every day. The drive is way better and modern auto boxes have improved so much. Paddle shift add interaction and give the box additional ways to use it to get the best out of it. I know a fleet supplier who switched their fleet to auto years ago for increase reliability and less clutch wear. But it’s down to personal preference. 


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## Nick-ST (Mar 4, 2013)

Think it has to be auto for a daily driver for me now. However I do wish my E36 storage/project car was a manual!


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

If you want a manual buy it, personally it's auto only for me though.


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## LSpec (Apr 7, 2013)

I really like auto, but if there were less traffic in my area my daily car would be manual.

but agree with all, if you want a manual car buy a manual car.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

A manual box is good fun when you're having a proper drive. Day to day in traffic an auto is much more friendly. 

Sadly we can't have both.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Yes would still buy a Manual car.

Sales people talking out their behind.


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## mar00 (Jun 24, 2018)

Kerr said:


> A manual box is good fun when you're having a proper drive. Day to day in traffic an auto is much more friendly.
> 
> Sadly we can't have both.


I have a car with a sequential box so manual clutchless shifts when moving but you wouldn't want to drive it on a public road in traffic


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

Much prefer a manual in a car; better interaction and enjoyment for me.


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## piston_warrior (Jul 25, 2012)

DSG all the way, I don’t need to feel involved on my 100 mile fast road commute. If I get on the twisties then I can just use the paddles, DSG cars cost more but do also sell for more so it’s really down to personal preference.


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

I think you should choose based on on what sort of driving you do along with personal preference. Most of my driving is spent either sat in traffic, going along the motorway on cruise control or driving round town, I also have a relaxed driving style but also like to get where I’m going in a timely and efficient manner. For these reasons prefer a car with a good amount of torque paired up with an automatic.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

182_Blue said:


> If you want a manual buy it, personally it's auto only for me though.


I agree with this... although 2 of our 3 cars are manual. Realistically it needs to bea ZF gearbox though.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

Good automatics are fine. I would not have a DSG equipped car and I certainly would not want to tow with one...


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

ollienoclue said:


> Good automatics are fine. I would not have a DSG equipped car and I certainly would not want to tow with one...


They wouldn't sell so many if they were bad. Don't see too many towing but then again could be because brand snobs don't go away in a caravan. 
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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

atbalfour said:


> They wouldn't sell so many if they were bad. Don't see too many towing but then again could be because brand snobs don't go away in a caravan.
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


Err they sell plenty of McDonalds even though those are sh1t?

You don't see too many towing because the little clutches in there don't enjoy slipping....


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## baxlin (Oct 8, 2007)

atbalfour said:


> They wouldn't sell so many if they were bad. Don't see too many towing but then again could be because brand snobs don't go away in a caravan.
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


I don't think you see many towing because the manufacturers say not to (at least Nissan do!)


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

ollienoclue said:


> Err they sell plenty of McDonalds even though those are sh1t?
> 
> You don't see too many towing because the little clutches in there don't enjoy slipping....


The 7so is a pile of poo, they break without warning. We had a customer who was waiting for a parking space, it then decided it had a transmission fault and would not move anymore. Turns out the clutch pack had taken out the mechatronic unit and was near on 3k to fix.


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## SarahAnn (Apr 6, 2011)

It's completely up to you. You are driving it.
I would never go back to manual, just personal preference. I think you need to get the right one though. I had a new S3 a few months ago and there was a lag on it when trying to accelerate, especially bad at roundabouts, (I don't use paddles). I changed to a facelift merc C43 and it has instant power at any speed in comfort mode. Had to mess about changing mode etc on the S3 just to make it go at a roundabout.
If you prefer manual, go for it. No point driving something you don't like. Perhaps your dealer had autos readily available and might lose your business if you search for the less available manual 
I wouldn't listen to a dealer, they are out for themselves, I used to date one


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## slobbox (Jul 14, 2019)

Last car was an Auto and would tow 3500kg no issues. I wouldn't get another manual but I insist the kids all learn to drive a manual. As a nation we are quite backward in thinking that autos are no good in most other countries thats all you can get.


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## Derek Mc (Jun 27, 2006)

I do love a manual, but from an emissions stance I think automatics will be all there is shortly above micro city car level.


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## slim_boy_fat (Jun 23, 2006)

Manual 'box for me - I've driven autos but prefer the 'involvement' of manual changes.


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## alfajim (May 4, 2011)

I've just gotten myself my first auto in twenty years, loving it. It's got paddles but I'm not bothered about using them.


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## mar00 (Jun 24, 2018)

ollienoclue said:


> Err they sell plenty of McDonalds even though those are sh1t?
> 
> You don't see too many towing because the little clutches in there don't enjoy slipping....


dsq250 is a wet box no problems sliping and in the UK's most popular towing cars for caravans,

VAG DSG's have been very reliable in general, they are running 600BHP in rallycross and in lots of series race cars with uprated input/output shaft,

Ford have had a really big problem it seems with all their auto and double clutch boxes,

until 2 years ago we ran a race 400BHP/400Nm A3 with a standard DSG and mectronic, with a map to make it fully manual and to raise limits, the box is rated at 380Nm never had a problem, it went in a road car and still going strong, only had regualr oil change


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## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

atbalfour said:


> They wouldn't sell so many if they were bad. Don't see too many towing but then again could be because brand snobs don't go away in a caravan.
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


One the reasons they sell so may well be because they don't offer a manual equipped equivalent. I was looking at a Seat Leon ST, I wanted the 2.0 TSI 190 and yet it is only available with a DSG box. I drove a DSG and didn't rate it but they couldn't offer a manual and so I never bought a Leon.


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## phillipnoke (Apr 1, 2011)

Sounds like his stuck with this car and needs to get rid


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## VW STEVE. (Mar 18, 2012)

I'm on my 4th Auto & for me i will never have a manual box again. For me they are just so good these days & when most of the supercar makers only offer auto it says it all. I could not change gear as fast manually as my 8 speed auto goes through the gears.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

mar00 said:


> dsq250 is a wet box no problems sliping and in the UK's most popular towing cars for caravans,
> 
> VAG DSG's have been very reliable in general, they are running 600BHP in rallycross and in lots of series race cars with uprated input/output shaft,
> 
> ...


Are we even talking about the same VW?

DSGs in rallycross yadda yadda yadda...

Bottom line is, these DSG boxes don't like creeping, and they especially don't like creeping when towing. The little clutch pack that works the odd gears doesn't like it... Dunno what you are on about with uprated shafts or torque or whatever.


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## BrummyPete (Jun 10, 2010)

I've currently got a manual but the last few cars were auto, my favourite was the 8spd in the Jag XF I had

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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

I have an auto only because my wife prefers it and being disabled, she finds it easier to use than a manual. If i was going back to two cars rather than just one, it would most likely be a manual


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Strange comment as I currently have 2 autos... but I hate them.. :lol:

Just so happens that the cars I want don't come in manual. 

I have my bikes for the all important "gear change feeling" 

:thumb:


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## Mikesphotaes (Jul 24, 2016)

Never thought I'd say this but I like my autos a lot!


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## RS3 (Mar 5, 2018)

If you want the best fuel economy, its got to be manual especially in hilly areas. We have both manuals and autos in the household.
I like an auto as a daily but I much prefer manual in sports cars etc. I know its quicker with a modern auto but no where near as much fun.


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## mar00 (Jun 24, 2018)

ollienoclue said:


> Are we even talking about the same VW?
> 
> DSGs in rallycross yadda yadda yadda...
> 
> Bottom line is, these DSG boxes don't like creeping, and they especially don't like creeping when towing. The little clutch pack that works the odd gears doesn't like it... Dunno what you are on about with uprated shafts or torque or whatever.


as usually not much sense there , auto gearboxes work on input load and RPM (torque or whatever) and there isn't just 1 type of DSG box but around 7,

torque converters don't like creep/sliping either they will overheat, but no gearbox does including manuals, thats just bad driving, there is a big difference between driving slowly in a jam and slipping the clutch or converter,

I've towed race cars around the Alps in a DSG passat estate never had a problem but where small SUV's with traditional auto just stopped on the long steep stuff,

which is best depends on application, manualy have more involvment so more fun, on a track for times DCT type are quicker or higher end racing Sequential, for everday driving it's personal preference really, I drive all of them but if i'm going any distance I'll normally use the DCT now


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## Lexus-is250 (Feb 4, 2017)

I'd only ever driven manuals until I got my previous car and I'm now a bit of an auto convert. Current car being a diesel I would only have it in auto due to the savings in clutch / flywheel issues in later life. 

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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

I prefer manuals but completely accept that autos are the box of manufacturer's choice in many circumstances.

How long are you thinking of keeping her? Use that decision to inform your next move. Do your homework on reliability/repair costs and go from there.

If, say, a couple of years and 20K miles and usually the box is fine (no clutch/auto issues) then that's one choice; if say 6 or 7 years and 50K+ miles and there's likely to be a big repair bill in that time that's another. It might be worth putting depreciation into the equation also.

Or just test drive lots and see which car you like the most and enjoy her .

Good luck whichever box you choose.

Andy.


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## hopeful (Jul 29, 2019)

I love the auto box in my BMW. If I had a manual, I wouldn't be able to use the Automatic Cruise Control in stop start traffic.


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## Harley Chops (Nov 8, 2019)

Had the BMW M135i with the ZF8 auto box. Awesome car, fast, great fun to drive and the auto box was great, but just didn't tick every box. The biggest problem was with it being a auto, even with the paddles I did not feel connected. Eventually changed it for a manual 218. Even though I am way down on power I enjoy driving it more. Ok, in town driving the an auto is good I just can't beat the mechanical clunk of a manual gear change.


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## Max Inc (Apr 3, 2007)

Prefer the manuals but after so many years of London traffic, I finally gave up and made the switch. Still renting manuals when going on holidays.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

ollienoclue said:


> Are we even talking about the same VW?
> 
> DSGs in rallycross yadda yadda yadda...
> 
> Bottom line is, these DSG boxes don't like creeping, and they especially don't like creeping when towing. The little clutch pack that works the odd gears doesn't like it... Dunno what you are on about with uprated shafts or torque or whatever.


Nobody cares about towing  :wall:

Better performance, economy and comfort vs. greater connection to the road. Can totally appreciate both sides but based on how and where I drive it makes no sense for me to buy a manual.

Some may disagree but any auto I have had (not just the 4WD ones I drive currently) has been top notch in the snow too.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

mar00 said:


> as usually not much sense there , auto gearboxes work on input load and RPM (torque or whatever) and there isn't just 1 type of DSG box but around 7,
> 
> torque converters don't like creep/sliping either they will overheat, but no gearbox does including manuals, thats just bad driving, there is a big difference between driving slowly in a jam and slipping the clutch or converter,
> 
> ...


A torque converter is designed to slip, that is why they are used in much heavier vehicles, particularly those designed to go forward and backward endlessly all day every day for years on end. It is for this reason that the oil used is pretty special and changed at the required interval.

The little clutches in DSG boxes don't like it, particularly creeping in traffic, this is not a huge secret. Throw in heavier vehicles, inclines and additional loads (as an example, towing) and low speed creeping and it's no surprised they don't like it. It is well covered online.

I'm not too concerned about this or that on a track, that is a wholly different application and down to personal taste.


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## cole_scirocco (Mar 5, 2012)

I currently have both - personal car is a 3 Series manual. Company vehicle is the new 8 speed auto Corsa.

I hate the auto. In general. Manuals are so much fun plus kickdown in most autos is horrific.


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## Max Inc (Apr 3, 2007)

Cole_E91 said:


> ... plus kickdown in most autos is horrific.


For me kickdown is the most exciting part on the auto 😲🤪😎 That being said, we has a courtesy Corsa once, it had something like an electronically actuated manual transmission which was scaring the **** out of me every when was downshifting on downhill gradients.


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## mar00 (Jun 24, 2018)

ollienoclue said:


> A torque converter is designed to slip, that is why they are used in much heavier vehicles, particularly those designed to go forward and backward endlessly all day every day for years on end. It is for this reason that the oil used is pretty special and changed at the required interval.
> 
> The little clutches in DSG boxes don't like it, particularly creeping in traffic, this is not a huge secret. Throw in heavier vehicles, inclines and additional loads (as an example, towing) and low speed creeping and it's no surprised they don't like it. It is well covered online.
> 
> I'm not too concerned about this or that on a track, that is a wholly different application and down to personal taste.


torque converters are not designed to just slip the car wouldn't move and excess slip cause them to overheat and sign of a problem, free wheeling isn't the same a slippage, they are designed to transmit torque and slip while accelerating then they use a clutch lock to stop slip,

you can cherry pick info from the internet to say anything, but meanwhile in the real world experience says differently, I know countless people in Europe paricualry that only drive VAG cars with the DSG box and never heard anyone say anything other than as already mentioned the hesitation issue, I neven known anyone having to change the clutch packs either,


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## cole_scirocco (Mar 5, 2012)

Max Inc said:


> For me kickdown is the most exciting part on the auto 😲🤪😎 That being said, we has a courtesy Corsa once, it had something like an electronically actuated manual transmission which was scaring the **** out of me every when was downshifting on downhill gradients.


It's got better, however considering the vehicle is a re-branded 208... I'll let you judge how it is.


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## crash486 (Apr 6, 2015)

Absolutely buy a manual. It's great theft protection. 

Crash486


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Drove a Fabia today that was 4 years old with dsg, it was horrible. Thumps fromgoing between drive and reverse and if you put it in drive on a slope it would roll backwards until you found the bite point.


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## mar00 (Jun 24, 2018)

SteveTDCi said:


> Drove a Fabia today that was 4 years old with dsg, it was horrible. Thumps fromgoing between drive and reverse and if you put it in drive on a slope it would roll backwards until you found the bite point.


it should do that it's a electronicly controled manual box, but autos will do the same on a steep enough hill too,


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

mar00 said:


> it should do that it's a electronicly controled manual box, but autos will do the same on a steep enough hill too,


I've never had that with a proper auto and i have driven plenty.


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## mar00 (Jun 24, 2018)

SteveTDCi said:


> I've never had that with a proper auto and i have driven plenty.


I've driven plently too and experienced it a lot in the mountains especialy reversing up inclines,


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