# Wax for White Vehicles



## Scott. (Jun 7, 2012)

Anyone able to recommend?

Will be used on a Focus ST. Needs to have good durability etc  

Scott


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## Blueberry (Aug 10, 2007)

Have you considered a sealant on white? They give a crisper, shaper finish than wax on white paintwork.


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

For high durability waxes I would look at Collinite, FK1000P or Bilt Hamber Finis


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## Blackroc (Dec 10, 2012)

Blueberry said:


> Have you considered a sealant on white? They give a crisper, shaper finish than wax on white paintwork.


^This

Carpro Reload spray sealant. If you still want wax application...DoDo Juice Supernatural Hybrid looks great on white....


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## Beatman (Jun 6, 2010)

I have a white focus and fk1000p works well for me, its a company car, high miles per week but the FK last well given the motorway miles, comes back well after a quick wash ( zymol shampoo ) and a drying cloth


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## Mi16chris (Jan 27, 2013)

I'm using tough coat with illusion on top on my white Clio looks great IMO , going to try some fk1000p once the winter really comes


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

First off.. Welcome to the forum...:wave:

Secondly you can put any wax on there despite the blurb a wax is a wax it does not know what colour it is nor is it bothered....:lol:

For Wax as mentioned the Bilt Hamber is great and super long lasting and can stand up to a darn site more than the reload mentioned... yes people i have reload and i have tested it and a wax beats it for staying power and trounces it on cost.

Anyway the FK1000P is also darn good but find the bilt hamber Finis is even better.

And better than the Collinites yes people i have them also and have tested them as ever.

The FK1000P is refered to as a hybrid as technically its a sealant as its a synthetic wax but all sealants are liquid except for FK1000P as its a solid like a traditional wax and so is referred to as a hybrid.

Both FK and Bilt Hamber add some gloss.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

james_death said:


> First off.. Welcome to the forum...:wave:
> 
> Secondly you can put any wax on there despite the blurb a wax is a wax it does not know what colour it is nor is it bothered....:lol:
> 
> ...


If you were to check with the manufactures the reason it is called a hybrid is because it contains carnauba wax :thumb:


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

cheekymonkey said:


> If you were to check with the manufactures the reason it is called a hybrid is because it contains carnauba wax :thumb:


Must have changed it then as mine still says a blend of Synthetic Waxes.

But it was always hybrid as it did not meet the typical sealant brief of Liquid.

STEP 3: Hi-Temp Paste Wax
Product Code : BWM-1000

FINAL STEP OF 3 STEP BIG WHITE PASTE WAX SYSTEM

FK's # BWM 1000 is made from a blend of synthetic waxes to obtain a high degree of consistent quality. The most important attributes of this wax blend are hi melting points and greater hardness than natural waxes. Thus, the resulting film provides not only the high gloss but resistance to wear from heat, water & other natural causes. California VOC compliant. It is great for all painted, chrome and fiberglass surfaces found on Marine, Aircraft & Automotive finishes. It is easy to use and easy to wipe off.

DIRECTIONS: Apply with a clean & soft cloth onto an already clean surface in a overlapping circular pattern for uniform film. Allow to dry and wipe off residue with soft cloth. Then buff to a bright, hard, slick and protective finish.


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## TheMattFinish (Jul 17, 2011)

Personally on white cant beat the zaino range, 

Either go with z2/z5 though my choice for this time of year is Zaino Z-CS 9 months protection and very high levels of gloss


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

james_death said:


> Must have changed it then as mine still says a blend of Synthetic Waxes.
> 
> But it was always hybrid as it did not meet the typical sealant brief of Liquid.
> 
> ...


same as what mine says but when i asked them they say it does contain natural wax ?


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Never got on with Zaino for me and why i sold the lot, thats the thing we try and see what works for us personally.

Zaino did nothing for me on the test bed vehicle that was our black Polo.


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

cheekymonkey said:


> same as what mine says but when i asked them they say it does contain natural wax ?


The swines....:lol:

Everywhere it says fully synthetic i know there pink paste wax is a traditional carnauba.

Still great product, but we always called it a hybrid for the paste aspect.

They have never called it a hybrid themselves as far as im aware.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

james_death said:


> The swines....:lol:
> 
> Everywhere it says fully synthetic i know there pink paste wax is a traditional carnauba.
> 
> ...


yeap still a great product :thumb:


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## psynx (Jun 19, 2013)

Swissvax Glacier
Victoria Wax Chaos 
Dodo Diamond White or Light fantastic
Bouncers 22
these i liked so far on my GPW s2000


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## derbigofast (Dec 6, 2011)

as said any wax will do what you need to decide is do you want ease of application or durability etc and get your wax based on that


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## Scott. (Jun 7, 2012)

Wow I was not expecting such fantastic replies. Thanks so much.

I think I need to do my research on individual products mentioned.


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## AaronGTi (Nov 2, 2010)

BMD Genesis Hybrid Wax


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## ZetecEmma (May 20, 2013)

Dodo Juices Supernatural hybrid looks amazing on white as does Bouncers satsuma rocks


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## thefettler (Feb 23, 2013)

I come down in the don't fall too much for the hype camp here when it comes to wax for colours  for me it's all about the beading! 

The collinite waxes 476 845 are both great waxes, months & months & months of protection. 845 seems to respond really well to being machine applied. Beads more uniform size with 476.

Supernatural hybrid is a dream to apply & buff off, it's only been on mine for a couple of weeks so I've no experience about duration of beads! 

Poorboys EX-P comes with a thumbs up from me too. Easy on, easy off. 

Dodo light fantastic is lovely to apply & makes nice beads, but for me it just didn't last long enough. 

Dodo hard candy is also lovely to apply but again for me it didn't last as long as I would have liked. 

The shine comes from the polishing, the wax is just bit on the top. Sure there must be something in all the claims of depth, gloss, wetness from the sales teams out there. But it does smack a little of snake oil! I find that on polished paint it's pretty much impossible to tell (visually) a waxed panel from a non waxed panel. 

Check out junkman's videos on YouTube they're informative & he's pretty funny too!


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## DPG87 (Feb 18, 2010)

I found that FK1000P gives a surprisingly good shine on a white car, added to that the superb durability of FK1000P it's a winner

I've used Collinite 476S on a white car before too, shine is probably better than the FK1000P but durability isn't as good, so it's a toss up between the two


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## neal666 (Jan 9, 2008)

Fk1000p for me, 3 washes so far and it still seems to be doing the job..

How often would you top it up ???


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Makes no difference what colour in my experience, i just use what i feel to on the day tbh. It's all in the prep.
FK ain't a bad shout, cheap and durable. Also HD's a good choice for durability and outstanding water behaviour. depending on your budget, there's loads i could recommend really.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

The only time that the color of the car has ANYTHING to do with what wax should be used on it is when the wax contains some sort of color pigment in it. *Other than that,* The color of the car has absolutely *NOTHING* to do with what brand OR type of wax that you should use. That is absolutely HOGWASH.


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## Jimmgc51 (Jul 9, 2012)

Junkman2008 said:


> The only time that the color of the car has ANYTHING to do with what wax should be used on it is when the wax contains some sort of color pigment in it. *Other than that,* The color of the car has absolutely *NOTHING* to do with what brand OR type of wax that you should use. That is absolutely HOGWASH.


I read somewhere that using a wax made from carnauba over time on a white car can give it an orangey tinge (very slight)

Is this hogwash too??

I used a sealant on mine AF Tough Coat, v pleased with the results!


_DSC8774 by Jimmgc511, on Flickr


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> The only time that the color of the car has ANYTHING to do with what wax should be used on it is when the wax contains some sort of color pigment in it. *Other than that,* The color of the car has absolutely *NOTHING* to do with what brand OR type of wax that you should use. That is absolutely HOGWASH.


Although any wax or sealant can be used some waxes/sealants compliment certain colours better then others :thumb:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

Jimmgc51 said:


> I read somewhere that using a wax made from carnauba over time on a white car can give it an orangey tinge (very slight)
> 
> Is this hogwash too??


This use to be be an issue if a carnuba paste wax was constantly applied over and over again without ever being stripped. However, I don't know if that is still the case with today's carnuba paste waxes. You will see this same issue on tile floors that have been waxed way too many times without being stripped. That's why you strip these types of floors before waxing them over and over again.



cheekymonkey said:


> Although any wax or sealant can be used some waxes/sealants compliment certain colours better then others :thumb:


Using simple logic (or facts), explain how.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> Using simple logic (or facts), explain how.


single coat red would favour a wax such as vics red more then the glassy look of fk1000
met white suits fk1000 more than the wet deep look of vics red :thumb:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

cheekymonkey said:


> single coat red would favour a wax such as vics red more then the glassy look of fk1000
> met white suits fk1000 more than the wet deep look of vics red :thumb:


You haven't explained the one thing that I asked for. *WHY*. Why is what you are saying true? Where's the logic or proof? I could say that carnuba waxes are best on white cars. I would then expect someone to ask me why. At that point, I would have to come back with a logical or scientific explanation to back up my claim. Those are the types of questions that I ask when I see something posted as fact, when it is probably more of an opinion. I expect the same out of people when I make a claim. If I make the claim, I can back it up with proof through science or logic. In my case, I use videos.

So I ask again, why? OR, is this more a case of just your opinion, which is something that I can accept. After all, anyone can have an opinion.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

thefettler said:


> The shine comes from the polishing, the wax is just bit on the top. Sure there must be something in all the claims of depth, gloss, wetness from the sales teams out there. But it does smack a little of snake oil! I find that on polished paint it's pretty much impossible to tell (visually) a waxed panel from a non waxed panel.


theres more than enough pictures to show differences with darkening effect etc. It's also been proven that LSP's do add gloss too, measured with gloss meter. :thumb:

Snake oil? Most marketing is! Carnauba % etc, and every manufacturer just has to say their coating is '9H' too!


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

cheekymonkey said:


> single coat red would favour a wax such as vics red more then the glassy look of fk1000
> met white suits fk1000 more than the wet deep look of vics red :thumb:


aint that the truth! :thumb:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> The only time that the color of the car has ANYTHING to do with what wax should be used on it is when the wax contains some sort of color pigment in it. *Other than that,* The color of the car has absolutely *NOTHING* to do with what brand OR type of wax that you should use. That is absolutely HOGWASH.


I call BS! :wave:

I can easily adjust colour and reflection/wetness of black paint simply by choice of LSP. 

On white car, maximum reflection is what's needed (IMO) to stand out. That means sealants and nano/silica/ceramic coatings. :thumb:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> You haven't explained the one thing that I asked for. *WHY*. Why is what you are saying true? Where's the logic or proof? I could say that carnuba waxes are best on white cars. I would then expect someone to ask me why. At that point, I would have to come back with a logical or scientific explanation to back up my claim. Those are the types of questions that I ask when I see something posted as fact, when it is probably more of an opinion. I expect the same out of people when I make a claim. If I make the claim, I can back it up with proof through science or logic. In my case, I use videos.
> 
> So I ask again, why? OR, is this more a case of just your opinion, which is something that I can accept. After all, anyone can have an opinion.


its all to do with the chemical make up of a lsp


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> theres more than enough pictures to show differences with darkening effect etc. It's also been proven that LSP's do add gloss too, measured with gloss meter. :thumb:
> 
> Snake oil? Most marketing is! Carnauba % etc, and every manufacturer just has to say their coating is '9H' too!


You have a link to any of these threads? Especially one with a meter that measures the difference. That I really want to see.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> You have a link to any of these threads? Especially one with a meter that measures the difference. That I really want to see.


The Cueball did a quick LSP only one on here a while ago, still waiting for part 2....
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=306456

And here is another great one from a car forum. Interesting read! 
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...loss-and-durability-of-the-top-paint-finishes


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

I think Cueball's test says the most and states the obvious. You need some type of meter to measure the shine difference that a LSP provides to paint. However, that shine difference is immediately nullified after driving your car down the road because dust is now settling on it. His test also shows that $40,000 wax not only isn't all that better than $40 wax and it won't get you laid either. This all goes to show why I don't put a lot of weight in LSP's and shine factor. I use it to protect because that's what it does.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Junkman2008 said:


> I think Cueball's test says the most and states the obvious. You need some type of meter to measure the shine difference that a LSP provides to paint.* However, that shine difference is immediately nullified after driving your car down the road because dust is now settling on it. * His test also shows that $40,000 wax not only isn't all that better than $40 wax and it won't get you laid either. This all goes to show why I don't put a lot of weight in LSP's and shine factor. I use it to protect because that's what it does.


Surely the same applies to just polished paint/freshly polished paint?

Whats the point of spending 10,20 or even 50 hours polishing the paint as it's just going to get dusty?


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

it's all candles


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

Alex L said:


> Surely the same applies to just polished paint/freshly polished paint?
> 
> Whats the point of spending 10,20 or even 50 hours polishing the paint as it's just going to get dusty?


Because we are talking about bang for the buck or gain if you will. Polishing yields a much larger gain in shine that any LSP does. Thus, dusty paint that has been polished to perfection is going to look 100 times better than paint that just has a LSP on it. I submit my own, dusty car with NO LSP on it. I had to drive 3 miles to get to this spot, past a construction site AND a rail yard. With that said, the car still looks like it was just washed.










Here it is again after 2 HOURS of freeway driving. Again, NO LSP.










Polishing is where it's at, period.


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

+^1 Couldn't agree more


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Junkman2008 said:


> I think Cueball's test says the most and states the obvious. You need some type of meter to measure the shine difference that a LSP provides to paint. However, that shine difference is immediately nullified after driving your car down the road because dust is now settling on it. His test also shows that $40,000 wax not only isn't all that better than $40 wax and it won't get you laid either. This all goes to show why I don't put a lot of weight in LSP's and shine factor. I use it to protect because that's what it does.


Don't compare the waxes tested on the gloss meter readings alone, you also need to factor in durability, ease of use, water behaviour, dust/dirt attraction and that's before you even factor in the looks.

I'd be interested to see these measurements taken weekly over say a 6 month period to see how/if the levels fall off as well as the beading levels, how the separate areas dirt attraction stands up etc.

And then you'd also have to factor in how you clean it, if you use a plain shampoo or a wash and wax one.

And as for your requiring scientific proof on using a sealant/coating on white over a wax, well consumer feedback obviously doesn't matter to you.

There are hundreds on here who prefer the above mentioned over a wax on white, so either they're all delusional (sp) or they actually may have tried a fair few products and settled on the ones they like the most.

Does it make them right or wrong? Neither, it makes them happy and that's what its all about.

The Flat Earthers who claim LSPs add nothing seem to perpetually preach their claims with out any proof, yet get all pi55y when they don't understand that some/most people do actually see a difference.

And btw, where does it say the expensive wax in the link is $40,000?


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Junkman2008 said:


> Because we are talking about bang for the buck or gain if you will. Polishing yields a much larger gain in shine that any LSP does. Thus, dusty paint that has been polished to perfection is going to look 100 times better than paint that just has a LSP on it. I submit my own, dusty car with NO LSP on it. I had to drive 3 miles to get to this spot, past a construction site AND a rail yard. With that said, the car still looks like it was just washed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If we're playing that game :thumb:

after a week of work which included mdf,corian and stone dust blowing everywhere heres my car, top pic you can see the dust. bottom pic all shiny.

And you wouldn't believe the marring on the paint.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Junkman2008 said:


> * Because we are talking about bang for the buck or gain if you will*
> . Polishing yields a much larger gain in shine that any LSP does. Thus, dusty paint that has been polished to perfection is going to look 100 times better than paint that just has a LSP on it. I submit my own, dusty car with NO LSP on it. I had to drive 3 miles to get to this spot, past a construction site AND a rail yard. With that said, the car still looks like it was just washed.
> Polishing is where it's at, period.


 Humour me here, but if you're talking bang for buck we'll base the following on how much the labour rates are at my work.

For every job I do the customer pays $64 p/h labour.

Now just a rough estimate here but to fully polish my car I'd need a polisher at $150ish and pads, MFs and polishes. So we'll say $350 for arguments sake.

Now it recently took me about 9 hours to do a one step polish on my car, so that's $576 labour. plush the $350 equals $926 to polish my car.

Of course it would look awesome after this, but nearly $1k to make my car look nice isn't much *bang for buck*.

Now I could go to Super Cheap Auto with $100 and buy a Mothers/Megs clay kit and some wax and spend say 3 hours tops on the car and I would have spent $292 and to 95% of the population the car would just as good.

So the Bang for Buck theory just doesn't financially add up for me I'm afraid :thumb:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

Alex L said:


> Don't compare the waxes tested on the gloss meter readings alone, you also need to factor in durability, ease of use, water behaviour, dust/dirt attraction and that's before you even factor in the looks.
> 
> I'd be interested to see these measurements taken weekly over say a 6 month period to see how/if the levels fall off as well as the beading levels, how the separate areas dirt attraction stands up etc.
> 
> And then you'd also have to factor in how you clean it, if you use a plain shampoo or a wash and wax one.


That's fine and dandy, if you're a detailing geek. That is definitely not me. I care about ONE thing. How soon can I be done so that I can go play with the ladies and does my shine sparkle in their eyes. After all, do you think that I spend time making my car look good for men? Hell no, I could care less what some men think, I bought my car and made it sparkle for the ladies. After all, they are the only ones other than I who get to ride in it.












Alex L said:


> And as for your requiring scientific proof on using a sealant/coating on white over a wax, well consumer feedback obviously doesn't matter to you.
> 
> There are hundreds on here who prefer the above mentioned over a wax on white, so either they're all delusional (sp) or they actually may have tried a fair few products and settled on the ones they like the most.
> 
> Does it make them right or wrong? Neither, it makes them happy and that's what its all about.


Here's the thing about consumer opinion. People who have never jumped out of an airplane think that once your parachute opens, you blast off and go back up in the air and then start floating down again. People who don't know anything about detailing think that WAX is what makes paint shine. People who don't know anything about computers think that you can go to a website, click one button and your computer will run 19 times faster. *There are masses of people who are not in the know about a lot of subjects.* So just because the people believe does not mean that the emperor has no cloths.

That's why I ask for scientific proof. You cannot dispute for example, Newton's 3 laws of motion. No matter what you do to dispel them, they are solid as a rock and can be proven time and time again, VERY easily. The only way that you cannot believe them is to blatantly disregard what can easily be proven and thus look like a buffoon. Opinion is one thing. Indisputable proof is exactly that... INDISPUTABLE.



Alex L said:


> And btw, where does it say the expensive wax in the link is $40,000?


sar·casm (ˈsärˌkazəm/ noun: sarcasm; plural noun: sarcasms)

1.
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

Alex L said:


> So the Bang for Buck theory just doesn't financially add up for me I'm afraid :thumb:


That's because you don't get much bang for your buck. I fixed the paint on this car for $1000. I can make that same money in one day fixing a computer network. So maybe you don't get the same bang for your buck that I do.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

You see too me that car looks very reflective, but it lacks the depth and wet look I prefer, which you'd get from different LSPs :thumb:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

Alex L said:


> You see too me that car looks very reflective, but it lacks the depth and wet look I prefer, which you'd get from different LSPs :thumb:


Whatever.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Junkman2008 said:


> That's fine and dandy, if you're a detailing geek. That is definitely not me. I care about ONE thing. How soon can I be done so that I can go play with the ladies and does my shine sparkle in their eyes. After all, do you think that I spend time making my car look good for men? Hell no, I could care less what some men think, I bought my car and made it sparkle for the ladies. After all, they are the only ones other than I who get to ride in it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So basically everyone on here who recommends a sealant for white are a bunch of window lickers 

whilst I'd agree with the sentiment for the general public, I'd say members on a "detailing" forum are slightly more clued up 

And who cares who you detail your car for? I do it to make myself happy and for no-one else. You post up lots of pics of questionably attractive women as if it's supposed to prove something?

No-one here cares, but if it makes you happy that's all that matters :thumb:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

Alex L said:


> ...No-one here cares, but if it makes you happy that's all that matters :thumb:


Obviously YOU care. You're the only one complaining! :thumb:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Gloss (optics)
Gloss is a term used to define an optical property of a
surface to reflect light in a specular direction. The
factors that affect gloss are the refractive index of the
material, the angle of incident light and the surface
topography .
It is one of a number of important parameters that are
used to describe the visual appearance of an object.
When visually evaluated the gloss of a surface can be
influenced by a number of factors, these include the
colour of the surface, the surface finish (the magnitude,
frequency, direction and scale of curvatures), surface
texture or waviness (orange peel) and how the sample
is illuminated and viewed.
When light illuminates an object it interacts with its
surfaces in a number of ways:-


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

The visual evaluation of the gloss of a surface is a
complex interaction between the observer’s eye and the
surface of the object. This process depends on a
number of psychophysical factors that can affect
visual perception including age, gender, mood and day
of the week amongst others. Therefore it is quite
common for a group of individuals to produce large
variations in results when describing the gloss of a
surface.
Variations in surface texture directly influence the level
of specular reflection. Objects with a smooth surface,
i.e. highly polished or containing coatings with finely
dispersed pigments, appear shiny to the eye due to a
large amount of light being reflected in a specular
direction whilst rough surfaces reflect no specular light
as the light is scattered in other directions and
therefore appears dull. The image forming qualities of
these surfaces are much lower making any reflections
appear blurred and distorted.
Substrate material type also influences the gloss of a
surface. Non-metallic materials, i.e. plastics etc.
produce a higher level of reflected light when
illuminated at a greater illumination angle due to light
being absorbed into the material or being diffusely
scattered depending on the colour of the material.
Metals do not suffer from this effect producing higher
amounts of reflection at any angle.


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## WhiteRoc_170 (Jan 31, 2013)

Junkman2008 said:


>


See now if thats your definition of a beautiful woman then I cant believe a word you say. Sir that is not a woman!


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

WhiteRoc_170 said:


> See now if thats your definition of a beautiful woman then I cant believe a word you say. Sir that is not a woman!


Okay, I'll bite. What is she?


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## WhiteRoc_170 (Jan 31, 2013)

Junkman2008 said:


> Okay, I'll bite. What is she?


More like a he trying to look like a she.. sorry but not for 1 minute do I believe that is a woman.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

WhiteRoc_170 said:


> More like a he trying to look like a she.. sorry but not for 1 minute do I believe that is a woman.


You have GOT to be the gayest dude on DW if you think that she is not a woman. Damn, what do the women look like where YOU live??? God, I hope I never end up there!


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## WhiteRoc_170 (Jan 31, 2013)

Junkman2008 said:


> You have GOT to be the gayest dude on DW if you think that she is not a woman. Damn, what do the women look like where YOU live??? God, I hope I never end up there!


:doublesho:lol: 
Yep u just convinced me its not a woman


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

WhiteRoc_170 said:


> :doublesho:lol:
> Yep u just convinced me its not a woman


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

:lol:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> That's because you don't get much bang for your buck. I fixed the paint on this car for $1000. I can make that same money in one day fixing a computer network. So maybe you don't get the same bang for your buck that I do.


Lol! You just proved Alex's point. 

Do you really think the guy you charged $1k got bang for his buck?


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

And from the same post



Junkman2008 said:


> That's why I ask for scientific proof. You cannot dispute for example, Newton's 3 laws of motion. No matter what you do to dispel them, they are solid as a rock and can be proven time and time again, VERY easily. The only way that you cannot believe them is to blatantly disregard what can easily be proven and thus look like a buffoon. Opinion is one thing. Indisputable proof is exactly that... INDISPUTABLE.





Junkman2008 said:


> That's fine and dandy, if you're a detailing geek. That is definitely not me. I care about ONE thing. How soon can I be done so that I can go play with the ladies and does my shine sparkle in their eyes.


So you want scientific proof, but don't care about scientific tests? 



Junkman2008 said:


> Obviously YOU care. You're the only one complaining! :thumb:


Well, I care that people come into the *Waxes, Sealants & Paint Protection * section just to tell people LSPs are just there for beading and regardless of what you use they do nothing else.

I think by the time 90% of people get to this section they have worked their way through the others and are in the process of/have polished their cars. So are after the experience of the 65,694 members on here on what they have used on their *insert colour here* paint.

And if you happened to challenge their posts they cherry pick certain parts of your comment and don't except any form of examples to the contrary and then post up pictures of women with 5 o'clock shadow in an attempt to make themselves look cool and popular.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Lol @ this thread! 

I detail my car to get away from my woman! :lol: 

Anyway Alex, 4 doors for more whores!


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

-Raven- said:


> Lol @ this thread!
> 
> I detail my car to get away from my woman! :lol:
> 
> Anyway Alex, 4 doors for more whores!


:lol::lol:


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## gca3n (Apr 1, 2011)

What a thread. Lol

In case it's not been said or clarified but I was always under the impression wax is there to protect your shine/paint. 

I always use a polish , then a sealant and finally a wax to keep it all in. Pound for pound CG's black light is stunning and will make any colour of paint pop. You get a liquid gloss feel when you apply blacklight.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

gca3n said:


> What a thread. Lol
> 
> In case it's not been said or clarified but I was always under the impression wax is there to protect your shine/paint.
> 
> I always use a polish , then a sealant and finally a wax to keep it all in. Pound for pound CG's black light is stunning and will make any colour of paint pop. You get a liquid gloss feel when you apply blacklight.


have a look for -Ravens- FJ Cruiser thread, thers photographic proof of an LSP adding something :thumb:


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## gca3n (Apr 1, 2011)

Alex L said:


> have a look for -Ravens- FJ Cruiser thread, thers photographic proof of an LSP adding something :thumb:


Well in my experience in general once a car has been fully decontaminated it looks amazing and I have been really amazed at the level of finish just from a proper decontamination. After a full machine polish and a good sealant the paint if done correctly will at this point be perfect and nothing I have found makes it pop more. I have been using chemical guys 50/50 connoisseurs wax and as much as it's a brilliant wax it adds nothing with regards to shine. In fact I recently done a new car detail and the paint after correction was just stunning. I put blacklight on and was really happy with how it looked. The owner wanted it waxed too and tbh it actually if anything took a little shine away, certainly never added anything. Just my opinion.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

gca3n said:


> Well in my experience in general once a car has been fully decontaminated it looks amazing and I have been really amazed at the level of finish just from a proper decontamination. After a full machine polish and a good sealant the paint if done correctly will at this point be perfect and nothing I have found makes it pop more. I have been using chemical guys 50/50 connoisseurs wax and as much as it's a brilliant wax it adds nothing with regards to shine. In fact I recently done a new car detail and the paint after correction was just stunning. I put blacklight on and was really happy with how it looked. The owner wanted it waxed too and tbh it actually if anything took a little shine away, certainly never added anything. Just my opinion.


So the photographic proof means nothing? :thumb:

But at the end of the day it doesn't impact my life and I'm happy with what I know and have seen 

This really is a topic for Mythbusters (and I bagsy Kari )


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

gca3n said:


> Well in my experience in general once a car has been fully decontaminated it looks amazing and I have been really amazed at the level of finish just from a proper decontamination. After a full machine polish and a good sealant the paint if done correctly will at this point be perfect and nothing I have found makes it pop more.* I have been using chemical guys 50/50 connoisseurs wax and as much as it's a brilliant wax it adds nothing with regards to shine. *In fact I recently done a new car detail and the paint after correction was just stunning. I put blacklight on and was really happy with how it looked. The owner wanted it waxed too and tbh it actually if anything took a little shine away, certainly never added anything. Just my opinion.


Yep, I found the same thing with CG5050 so I sold it on. So many better waxes out there for looks, but the CG5050 is easy to apply and quite durable. :thumb:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

What wax would you use for this alex? Or would you use a glaze ? :lol:


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## ianrobbo1 (Feb 13, 2007)

Can we return to the original subject please?? I like to look at "nice" women as much as the next person, but I'm still at a loss as to what type of product will help the paintwork on a white vehicle, look it's best and last a reasonable time, 

I've FK1000 and know this works well with darker cars, same with Finis wax, but I also have sealants that I've used on darker cars, so looking for a majority type consensus for this white paint !!


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Probably start with a good foaming :thumb:



DJ X-Ray said:


> What wax would you use for this alex? Or would you use a glaze ? :lol:


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## DeeTailer (Aug 13, 2009)

Given that the pictures in the posts seems to mainly be non-white cars and given the request above to get back to the core question, here's my input:

I have three white cars in the family and have used a variety of products on them so feel that I'm qualified to contribute the the actual real debate here....

I've used both waxes and sealants on the same white car and can clearly see that they produce a different result.

I'm not going to get into a debate about what's the best wax or what's the best sealant - but the conclusion I reached when I was reading up was that if you want to get the "crispest" result on white (which is a difficult colour) then you should go for a sealant rather than a wax.

Why? Because sealants are totally clear whereas waxes are only translucent. You can see that when you open a tin of wax - its solid and you can't see through it....

I applied Colly 476S to an Ibis White Audi TTS (which is a white wax in the tin..) and you could see the colour of the car turning slightly yellowy as the wax went on. It definitely changed the colour slightly. I really wanted the crispest white I could get so when I got the chance I stripped it off and applied the Werkstat Acrylic Jett kit.

I've been very happy with that.

On my A5 (also Ibis White), I've used Wolf's Hard Body. Again, there's no colour change.

But - the first time I used it, I only prepared the new car surface with Shine & Seal. It was absolutely fine (see below) but last weekend, I gave it a proper preparation and pre-polish using a proper polish using an orbital sander before giving it the same Shine & Seal and HardBody treatment and I'm sure that its got a much more glossy finish because the paint was properly flat before I started...

So my suggestion is that if you want to keep the truest colour on a white car, go for a sealant instead of a wax. But also, to get the best look on white (which is a difficult colour to show off well because its not got "depth of colour" you also need to do your absolute best to prepare the surface properly before you start - and a good finishing polish using an orbital polisher before you start applying protection will make all the difference whichever product you then choose...

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=282808


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Great post :thumb: 

Someone with real world experience, who lives with the colour and not just someone who details other people's car of that colour:thumb:

When ever I read a thread regarding white cars the Jeffs Werkstat range always comes up more than any other.

If your on Facebook Dee, have a look for Art De Shine Alfred, some of the white cars he posts up are true.y outstanding :thumb:


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## deno 1 (May 4, 2011)

Only just read this thread.......seems like captain america has run for the hills ...or maybe hes gone down to walmart for some razors for the lady in the pics .


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## nick.s (Dec 21, 2009)

I'm going to play.

When my wife had her white Fiat Punto, I put different LSP's on that, sealants and waxes. Without a shadow of a doubt, waxes warmed up the finish to a point where it 'glowed', whereas sealants gave it an intense deep gloss.

Sealant:









Wax:









Yes, I know the angles are different, and yes I know the lighting is different, however, the difference is CLEAR to see. What one actually prefers is subjective. So to the OP, go for the look you prefer.


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## Dano28 (Feb 5, 2013)

Hi Dee, I have a Glacier White TT and use the Wolfs Hard Body, do you use anything between washes? Was thinking if getting some Wolfs Nano Quick Detailer to help top up between washes... Any thoughts?


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

deno 1 said:


> Only just read this thread.......seems like captain america has run for the hills ...or maybe hes gone down to walmart for some razors for the lady in the pics .


Nope, I lost interest in debating with a detailing geek. I'd rather be getting laid, something you must have trouble understanding. :thumb:


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## Rich H (Sep 30, 2013)

I used the Auto Finesse kit recently on an unpolished white car and the results were extremely impressive. Great reflective finish, very easy to clean and reasonably priced.

(Can't believe how disrespectful some of you guys are to people's feelings  A technical debate is one thing but questioning someone's gender is hurtful, totally uncalled for and unjustifiable. Just saying and I don't want to add further fuel).


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## majcas84 (Aug 24, 2012)

nick.s said:


> Yes, I know the angles are different, and yes I know the lighting is different, however, the difference is CLEAR to see. What one actually prefers is subjective. So to the OP, go for the look you prefer.


I just can't see it. I think you're seeing what you want to see.

Personally I think that white is such a lifeless colour for a car that it's going to make very little difference what is on it. To my eyes a white car has just two looks: clean or dirty. So may as well put something on it that will keep it cleaner for longer, which would usually be a sealant or a coating.

Compared to any other colour car white inherently has so little depth, reflection or gloss that no matter what you put on it you'll always be fighting a losing battle to make much of a difference.


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## majcas84 (Aug 24, 2012)

Rich H said:


> I used the Auto Finesse kit recently on an unpolished white car and the results were extremely impressive. Great reflective finish, very easy to clean and reasonably priced.
> 
> (Can't believe how disrespectful some of you guys are to people's feelings  A technical debate is one thing but questioning someone's gender is hurtful, totally uncalled for and unjustifiable. Just saying and I don't want to add further fuel).


Well said. :thumb:


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

Junkman2008 said:


> Nope, I lost interest in debating with a detailing geek. I'd rather be getting laid, something you must have trouble understanding. :thumb:


No offense, but a car isn't gonna get you laid... and if that does, it says more about your looks and what women that attracts

On Topic now:

For white cars, I prefer a sealant. Yes a wax gives you a "warmer" look, but white just isn't a wam colour... makes no sense like warm snow 

But I've seen some white cars with a sealant, or even better, a coating on it. I really love the gloss it gives.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

majcas84 said:


> I just can't see it. I think you're seeing what you want to see.
> 
> Personally I think that white is such a lifeless colour for a car that it's going to make very little difference what is on it. To my eyes a white car has just two looks: clean or dirty. So may as well put something on it that will keep it cleaner for longer, which would usually be a sealant or a coating.
> 
> Compared to any other colour car white inherently has so little depth, reflection or gloss that no matter what you put on it you'll always be fighting a losing battle to make much of a difference.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

majcas84 said:


> Compared to any other colour car white inherently has so little depth, reflection or gloss that no matter what you put on it you'll always be fighting a losing battle to make much of a difference.


The same could be said for any colour car though, as soon as you wash it it's going to get dust, dirt, pollen or fallout on it and before you know it it's back to being dirty.

But you just go though some of the white cars in the gallery section to be proved wrong, sure white it never going to look as amazing as a fully polished single stage black car but it does have its own rewards and own strengths just like every other colour.

The thing that puts me off white cars is the fact it's gone from resale silver to resale white.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

Blackmondie said:


> No offense, but a car isn't gonna get you laid...


What a joke. You keep on believing that. :thumb:


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Blackmondie said:


> For white cars, I prefer a sealant. Yes a wax gives you a "warmer" look, but white just isn't a wam colour... makes no sense like warm snow
> 
> But I've seen some white cars with a sealant, or even better, a coating on it. I really love the gloss it gives.


The picture Alfred from ADS puts up on Facebook of white cars are insane, the gloss he gets is stunning.


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## Blackmondie (Mar 13, 2011)

Junkman2008 said:


> What a joke. You keep on believing that. :thumb:


I'm maried and have a son, I get laid every day if I want.:devil:
you keep believing your idea :lol::lol:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

Blackmondie said:


> I'm maried and have a son, I get laid every day if I want.:devil:
> you keep believing your idea :lol::lol:


Trust me, I will. And I will continue to enjoy my variety. :thumb:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Rich H said:


> I used the Auto Finesse kit recently on an unpolished white car and the results were extremely impressive. Great reflective finish, very easy to clean and reasonably priced.
> 
> (Can't believe how disrespectful some of you guys are to people's feelings  A technical debate is one thing but questioning someone's gender is hurtful, totally uncalled for and unjustifiable. Just saying and I don't want to add further fuel).


Bang on mate :thumb: I think you'll find when people resort to slating fellow members it's due to having no case to put forward themselves. But anyway, back on topic


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

No-ones slating fellow members, just the pictures they post up:thumb:

And guys this is about wax, not e-stating :thumb:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

DJ X-Ray said:


> Bang on mate :thumb: I think you'll find when people resort to slating fellow members it's due to having no case to put forward themselves. But anyway, back on topic


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## majcas84 (Aug 24, 2012)

Alex L said:


> *The same could be said for any colour car though, as soon as you wash it it's going to get dust, dirt, pollen or fallout on it and before you know it it's back to being dirty.*
> 
> But you just go though some of the white cars in the gallery section to be proved wrong, sure white it never going to look as amazing as a fully polished single stage black car but it does have its own rewards and own strengths just like every other colour.
> 
> The thing that puts me off white cars is the fact it's gone from resale silver to resale white.


That is true, I just think the scope for improvement to white is pretty limited and isn't that where the real satisfaction in detailing lies?

I think of a sliding scale from 1 to 10 where 10 is a perfectly polished and glossed-up black car and 1 is a faded red car (going pink) and within this scale a white car is only ever going to get as high as a five no matter what you do to it.

I just don't see much of difference between a white car that's been well cleaned and one that has been fully polished and coated etc, but with most other colours I really can see the difference. Completely subjective I know and as they say it's all in the "eye of the beholder".


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Mmmmmm! Yum yum white!

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=4278674&postcount=1


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

Keep in mind that those pictures were taken with a Nikon D40. You could make anything look good with that camera.


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## DeeTailer (Aug 13, 2009)

Dano28 said:


> Hi Dee, I have a Glacier White TT and use the Wolfs Hard Body, do you use anything between washes? Was thinking if getting some Wolfs Nano Quick Detailer to help top up between washes... Any thoughts?


I applied my Hard Body 12 months ago now......

Since then, the car's been washed approximately fortnightly ever since.

It gets a pre-rinse in Magifoam followed (usually) by a wash with Wolf's Nano Bathe shampoo.

I have used Wolf's Quick Nano Detailer just twice in those twelve months to give it a tart up - it worked OK and I assume it topped up the coating. It was certainly easy to apply. The car was still beading well last week when I gave it a proper annual "going over".


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## deno 1 (May 4, 2011)

I used wolfs body wrap on my white scirocco and it was pin sharp......just put some fkp1000 on for the winter and it does seem warmer.....

gilette.......the best a man can get.!!!


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## nick.s (Dec 21, 2009)

Junkman2008 said:


> Nope, I lost interest in debating with a detailing geek. I'd rather be getting laid, something you must have trouble understanding. :thumb:


Woah fella, easy on the insults there  It seems that when one resorts to personal slurs, one has lost the battle as they have nothing left to debate with. It's very petty chap, as a long standing member I would have THOUGHT you would have known better.



majcas84 said:


> I just can't see it. I think you're seeing what you want to see.
> 
> Personally I think that white is such a lifeless colour for a car that it's going to make very little difference what is on it. To my eyes a white car has just two looks: clean or dirty. So may as well put something on it that will keep it cleaner for longer, which would usually be a sealant or a coating.
> 
> Compared to any other colour car white inherently has so little depth, reflection or gloss that no matter what you put on it you'll always be fighting a losing battle to make much of a difference.


I know what my eyes see thanks  I can clearly see a vast difference between a sealant and a wax on that car.

I do agree though on white being such a lifeless colour. With my findings and the findings of vast numbers of others being that sealants show a deeper gloss and less muting, I'm not going to really go against the grain and say I don't agree with my own findings.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

nick.s said:


> Woah fella, easy on the insults there  It seems that when one resorts to personal slurs, one has lost the battle as they have nothing left to debate with. It's very petty chap, as a long standing member I would have THOUGHT you would have known better.


Go back and read the ENTIRE thread. The insults started WAY before that post. If you're going to be the etiquette police, police the right people.


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## nick.s (Dec 21, 2009)

Junkman2008 said:


> Go back and read the ENTIRE thread. The insults started WAY before that post. If you're going to be the etiquette police, police the right people.


I'm not the etiquette police, nor do I want to be...yours was merely the first of the comments that was a tad unsavoury to cross my eyes.


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## Kash-Jnr (Mar 24, 2013)

This is just my opinon (for the OP)
Try Jeffs Werkstat system - this is my car with no polishing done whatsoever.

I've used both waxes and sealants on my car and there is a difference, not sure it can be quantified but there is something there. With the werkstat system I get more of a glassy look and with waxes its more warmer.










































Its not the best lighting though but I hope you get what I mean, pictures were taken by an iPhone 5.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Junkman2008 said:


> Keep in mind that those pictures were taken with a Nikon D40. You could make anything look good with that camera.


Dude, your clutching at straws now.

It's ok, it's a very bloke thing to do.

We all go to the cupboard to look for something and can't see it, ask the wife and she tells you it's right in front of you and you still can't find it.

She comes out and its suddenly right there, so you drop her off at work the next day then forget to pick here up and make her walk home in the rain


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

Alex L said:


> questionably attractive women


:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

Love these thread's, funny how it brings out people's true character's.

I think if any or most of our member's wife's had a read through this and found boasting about getting our ride then I think our ride's would be the only thing with the suitcase's in,WHY? mabey because here it's called respect!

And sorry junkman but that's as tastefull as that walnut dash!!.


Thread should be closed.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

k9vnd said:


> Love these thread's, funny how it brings out people's true character's.
> 
> I think if any or most of our member's wife's had a read through this and found boasting about getting our ride then I think our ride's would be the only thing with the suitcase's in,WHY? mabey because here it's called respect!
> 
> ...


No it shouldn't! I'm still waiting for him to answer all the points I made with an answer that isn't 'I do it for the women':lol::lol::lol:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Yeah i agree why close the thread ? I'm enjoying the pictures of all the white cars that look the same


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> Keep in mind that those pictures were taken with a Nikon D40. *You could make anything look good with that camera.*


you should get one to take photos of your 'women' then! :lol::lol::lol:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> Trust me, I will. And I will continue to enjoy my variety. :thumb:


any pictures of the others or is your variety just the one woman :thumb:


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## Kash-Jnr (Mar 24, 2013)




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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

cheekymonkey said:


> any pictures of the others or is your variety just the one woman :thumb:


There is in another thread :thumb:


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## corey101 (Aug 16, 2013)

While have just started to cross back over to waxes, you can't deny sealants do look epic on white cars, here's mine wearing z aio and 2 coats of z2


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

OK, so Junkyman asked for answers why.

Here goes... (deep breath)

It's all a trick of the light. It's scientifically called refraction I believe. When
you think of just how thin, and I mean thin, a coating of wax or sealant is,
then things start to fall into place. When we talk about adding things like
wetness or depth, gloss or glassiness then the first 7 words of this paragraph
apply.

Why? Because of the way that the surface has been fractionally altered by
the coating. Generally speaking sealants give a very flat, glassy finish that
relects so much light that you can almost lose the colour. Whereas, a more
natural carnauba wax with its entirely different coating characteristics to the 
sealant, and I'm not going to get technical, will reflect as much colour as 
light, thereby tricking the eye into believing that there is greater depth. In
reality, there isn't!

Our American friend has been adamant that once you polish a surface to 
"perfection" (whatever that is) then nothing will change the look or enhance
it. If that were true, why have car paint manufacturers spent so much on 
developing clear coats? The latest ones that appear to be pigmented are
giving an insane shine to some colours. So, on that point I could not agree 
less!

As for beading, sorry to burst bubbles here, but other than their quite pretty 
patterns, beads mean absolutely nothing! If you polish your surface to a point
of absolute smoothness, there won't be a wax or sealant to touch the beading
that you'll get! OK, there are some coatings that produce insane beading, but 
I'm limiting my remarks to waxes and sealants only.

As for finishing a white car. Polish it to within an inch of its life. Add 2 very
thin coats of FK #1000p to resist the winter salt and if you don't like its stark 
finish, then add a carnauba spray wax. As Serious Performance sells the 
1000p get their own Ultra Gloss Wax from the same source.

Regards,
Steve


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Great post Steve :thumb:


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## nick.s (Dec 21, 2009)

Alex L said:


> Great post Steve :thumb:


I concur!


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Alex L said:


> There is in another thread :thumb:


got a link:thumb:


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

cheekymonkey said:


> got a link:thumb:


If you pay for the therapy :lol::lol:

In all seriousness though I can't remember where I saw it.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Alex L said:


> If you pay for the therapy :lol::lol:
> 
> In all seriousness though I can't remember where I saw it.


therapy cant afford that at the moment lol


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