# Menzerna Ceramiclear- best polish or appallingly bad?



## Brazo

Monday - crap

Tuesday - crap

Wednesday - ace

Saturday - ace

I find this polish to be so unpredictable, so affected by the 'weather' and atmospheric conditions as to be a poor product 

But when it works - god dammit its the best by a country mile!!!


Opinions?


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## Dave KG

As Inwas saying today on the little demo day... when it works, its the best by far. When its playing up, it can be a right pain - to the pint where I stop using it and swithc across to Megs which is a consistently good polish regardless of the conditions...

I know how you feel... cause when it works its just so good, but on the occasions it plays up (not that often out of the times I have used it, but then I'm not doing all that many details at the end of the day) it can be quite depressing... still works, but just doesn't feel as nice and with the rotary you want it to glide and the set to be perfect for you to be happy.


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## scoobyc

glad i'm not the only one then! really seems to be hit or miss with ip for me and i'm going to put ff up for sale/trade shortly!


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## Neil_S

Yes I know what you mean, i don't know what triggers it not to work too, because I swear I have had it work and had it not work in very similar conditions.


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## S63

Is this due to temperature variations or humidity?


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## Clark @ PB

Brazo said:


> Monday - crap
> 
> Tuesday - crap
> 
> Wednesday - ace
> 
> Saturday - ace
> 
> I find this polish to be so unpredictable, so affected by the 'weather' and atmospheric conditions as to be a poor product
> 
> But when it works - god dammit its the best by a country mile!!!
> 
> Opinions?


Couldnt agree more mate, when it works its the best polish out there in my opinion, and lately its worked well for me - but its that little bit of uncertanty in the back of your mind before you start polishing that pi$$es me off!

This is why i've been using the 3M polishes recently, they work just as well and give no annoying buffer hop etc, a great "back up" polish :thumb:

For what its worth, a well primed pad on the Rotary seems to help the Cerami-clears work a hell of a lot better, i spray a good few mists of QD onto the pad and then hold the machine in the same spot (on the windscreen of the car) untill its fully absorbed it all


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## lutontownfc

I used Menzerna 3.01 today and found it to dry very quickly on the pad, started shooting off little white balls! Despite all the rain and unseasonal weather the panels on my car were fairly warm so can only put it down to this. Changed over to Megs 83 with no problems at all.


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## A20 LEE

I've found that moving to a side panel then going back to the flats once the pad is more loaded helps.


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## GlynRS2

I guess if you are working outside you are more prone to the variability of the weather.
Menzerna polishes were designed to work in the controlled environment of a paint shop finishing line, so I guess they don't have any issues there.
I always try to polish indoors if I can, but obviously that is not always possible.


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## Rich @ PB

As above really; the Menzerna polishes certainly aren't crap, it's just that we are all using them outside of the controlled environment for which they have been designed. Temperature does seem to be the biggest factor, although I have been told that panel temperature and humidity also play a part too. We will continue to use Menzerna as our first choice of poloshes, but as Clark says, we have been searching for a decent back up set, and have found what we are looking for in the 3M range.


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## Finerdetails

On the occasions when I have used it has worked, but taken a fair amount of technique to hold the product in its place and get the job done.

On the last detail - the carbon Black M3 I used two polish combos, both had Menz in them for their cut ability, but each also had another one mixed to prevent the PITA behavour we all see.

I will keep homing these and once happy its good enough to share will do so.


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## Brazo

Megs #83 is my back up but does need a few more passes than the menz. 

How do the 3m polishes compare guys?


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## Finerdetails

the 3m stuff I have used, both perfect it and finesse it have been very very good. They tend to work by pressure and speed so the 'Zentith' technique works great for working a defect and finishing up to LSP in one set


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## Porta

As said before, I only use Menzerna inside and under controlled conditions, IE right temperatures and humidity. Works ace all the time.

3M 50077 trizact, 50383 extra fine cut is two very good polishes. Extra fine cut have a very misleading name IMO, since it can cut like RD3.02 and finishes out on par with it.


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## Neil_S

Have you 3M users found any Menz like variability depending on the weather conditions? Or do they just work?


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## Clark @ PB

Porta said:


> As said before, I only use Menzerna inside and under controlled conditions, IE right temperatures and humidity. Works ace all the time.
> 
> 3M 50077 trizact, 50383 extra fine cut is two very good polishes. Extra fine cut have a very misleading name IMO, since it can cut like RD3.02 and finishes out on par with it.


agree with that 



Neil_S said:


> Have you 3M users found any Menz like variability depending on the weather conditions? Or do they just work?


They work every time, they dont always leave a film of polish behind as the Menz does so it sometimes looks like you're dry buffing - but just continue as normal and you always finish down LSP ready 

Matt at OYM uses them alot too :thumb:

The rotary just glides over the panel when using the 3M polishes, as opposed to feeling a bit "heavy" when the lubricants in the Menz arent always working 100%


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## Alex L

What order/cut are the ones Porta has listed?


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## scoobyc

are all the people commenting on menz polishes here using rotarys or pcs too? Just i'm using pc and always have it inside the garage which is approx 15 deg c but still have various results but maybe due to panel temps as mentioned above.


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## ianFRST

yup, ive used menz on 3 cars, and tried it on 3 other cars, before switching to megs.....

i might have to try out some of th 3m range aswell then.....

cansomeody list the like for like between the menz and the 3m... like what is the 3m equivelant to FF, 3.02, PG etc


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## Pad

also, who retails the 3M stuff?


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## drive 'n' shine

I have found by adding a spot of 106FA to the pad with 3.02 helps when 3.02 is playing up.

Pad - your local bodyshop supplier will more than likely stock an assortment of 3M products


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## Glossmax

Do the Menz pads help at all in providing a more constant result?


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## dodger

what seems to be the problem with the Menz range does it not break down properly or what?


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## drive 'n' shine

dodger said:


> what seems to be the problem with the Menz range does it not break down properly or what?


It can clump up and then you get your buffer skipping all over the place! Not much fun!


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## dodger

but can't any polish clump up just a matter how much


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## Brazo

Yep adding FF can help but sometimes even that plays up!


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## Brazo

dodger said:


> but can't any polish clump up just a matter how much


Ceramiclear polishes use wax as a lubricant - fantastic when its warm and dry as the wax melts. When its cold/wet the wax hardens before the polish has broken down and clumps!


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## Porta

Alex L said:


> What order/cut are the ones Porta has listed?


3M Trizact 50077 ~Menzerna Powergloss
3M 80439 extra fine cut ~Menzerna PO85RD3.02
3M 50383 ~Menzerna PO85RD

I have a PDF information sheet where they measure cut and gloss.

3M 09374 Fast cut have a cut of 100 and low gloss.
3M 50077 trizact have a cut of 85 and higher gloss then fast cut
3M 80438 extra fine cut from 75-12 and a very high gloss.


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## Porta

The 3M line is made in the UK...


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## ianFRST

Brazo said:


> Ceramiclear polishes use wax as a lubricant - fantastic when its warm and dry as the wax melts. When its cold/wet the wax hardens before the polish has broken down and clumps!


ive also found it can clump when ive pu a tad too much on :wall:


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## Alex L

Porta said:


> 3M Trizact 50077 ~Menzerna Powergloss
> 3M 80439 extra fine cut ~Menzerna PO85RD3.02
> 3M 50383 ~Menzerna PO85RD
> 
> I have a PDF information sheet where they measure cut and gloss.
> 
> 3M 09374 Fast cut have a cut of 100 and low gloss.
> 3M 50077 trizact have a cut of 85 and higher gloss then fast cut
> 3M 80438 extra fine cut from 75-12 and a very high gloss.


Thanks Porta :thumb:

Is there an equivilant to 106FA?


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## Mr OCD

Had an absolute nightmare with it on Saturday ... was REALLY on the verge of losing it... 

... it was all down to the polish... it just didnt want to play ball - its one reason I am trying the full range of 3M stuff now... but not having much luck with that either (too much fling)... 

Its a shame Pinnacle dont make a more abrasive polish as their SR and ASR are superb and easy to use...


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## Porta

Alex L said:


> Thanks Porta :thumb:
> 
> Is there an equivilant to 106FA?


Extra fine cut is like RD3.02 and PO106FA. Give it a try.


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## drive 'n' shine

Engine_Swap said:


> Had an absolute nightmare with it on Saturday ... was REALLY on the verge of losing it...
> 
> ... it was all down to the polish... it just didnt want to play ball - its one reason I am trying the full range of 3M stuff now... but not having much luck with that either (too much fling)...
> 
> Its a shame Pinnacle dont make a more abrasive polish as their SR and ASR are superb and easy to use...


Have you tried the optimum range? These are surprisingly good, nice and oily so have a good working time


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## Clark @ PB

drive 'n' shine said:


> Have you tried the optimum range? These are surprisingly good, nice and oily so have a good working time


They make a right mess of your pads though i found, sometimes there was still some residue left in the pads after a machine wash!

I've found the 3M stuff to be pressure sensitive, the fine cut will work like 3.02 if you use pressure but if you back off then it will work like 106Fa/ff etc.. 

Saying that, i was using 106Fa and 3.02 on a Ferrari today and they were both a dream to use!


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## drive 'n' shine

Clark said:


> I've found the 3M stuff to be pressure sensitive, the fine cut will work like 3.02 if you use pressure but if you back off then it will work like 106Fa/ff etc..


Liking the sound of that


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## Clark @ PB

Engine_Swap said:


> Had an absolute nightmare with it on Saturday ... was REALLY on the verge of losing it...
> 
> ... it was all down to the polish... it just didnt want to play ball - its one reason I am trying the full range of 3M stuff now... but not having much luck with that either (too much fling)...
> 
> Its a shame Pinnacle dont make a more abrasive polish as their SR and ASR are superb and easy to use...


how do you apply your product on the pad mate and how much do you use?

I get no sling with the 3M stuff even up near 2000rpm's!


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## Neil_S

I'm liking the sound of this 3M gear :thumb:


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## Alex L

Neil_S said:


> I'm liking the sound of this 3M gear :thumb:


Theres a place in Totton (Calmore ind est) that sell it all, depending how tired I am one morning this week I might pop over and buy a bottle of the 3.02 equivilant.


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## scoobyc

has anyone tried 3m with a pc to any great effects? (might put this in a seperate post too  )


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## Alex L

And also when is that Paul Dalton going to tell us about the flat blue 3M pads?


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## wytco0

I also like the sound of the 3M poslishes and pad, however I cant find any good data on the web nor can i find suppilers. I found one site but its confusing.....

Anyone know a good supplier fo their pads and polishes?

Thanks


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## Alex L

wytco0 said:


> I also like the sound of the 3M poslishes and pad, however I cant find any good data on the web nor can i find suppilers. I found one site but its confusing.....
> 
> Anyone know a good supplier fo their pads and polishes?
> 
> Thanks


The 3M online catologue is for 2005, which I think limits things a bit


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## Clark @ PB

We have the latest catalogue etc, as Rich was looking at them the other day :thumb:


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## Mucky

autosmart have just started a new range called evo

dont know if its a polish or a compound but mine arrives on thursday and will be doing a review asap


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## Clark @ PB

Autosmarts previous polishes such as R1,R2,R3 etc were actually pretty good via rotary, cheap too!


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## Mucky

the r2 always did me pround but they are compounds and not polishes dont seem to get the gloss but for a tenner a litre they are good value

i know what your saying about optimum
pads need at least 2 washes before they are anywhere near clean but the worktime in the baking sun is sometimes a godsend


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## Clark @ PB

yeah thats true, although when the suns out the Menz tends to work fine for me 

R1 was always pretty good for gloss on a finishing pad


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## Mucky

pm me polished biss address and will send you some evo samples clark


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## Porta

mucky_marques said:


> autosmart have just started a new range called evo
> 
> dont know if its a polish or a compound but mine arrives on thursday and will be doing a review asap


Is it a compound or polish or a complete new line of both? Pictures?!


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## Mucky

i will find out on thursday when it arrives


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## Mr OCD

Clark said:


> how do you apply your product on the pad mate and how much do you use?
> 
> I get no sling with the 3M stuff even up near 2000rpm's!


:wave:

I was applying it pretty much the same way on a Megs polishing pad as I do with Menz IP... so I reduced the amount as it was flinging and it felt as though I was polishing the panels without polish 

I will say my pads are tired though... got a new set coming this week that I hope will help :thumb:

Used the 3M machine polish Perfect-It and found it leaves holograms rather easily... got some Ultrafina SE to try this weekend so will be giving that a go...

As much as I love Menz when it works I need a product that works ALL the time not when it can be arsed :devil: :lol:


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## Alex L

Clark said:


> We have the latest catalogue etc, as Rich was looking at them the other day :thumb:


Where did he get the catalogue?


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## ianFRST

Pad said:


> also, who retails the 3M stuff?


???????


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## Clark @ PB

Engine_Swap said:


> :wave:
> 
> I was applying it pretty much the same way on a Megs polishing pad as I do with Menz IP... so I reduced the amount as it was flinging and it felt as though I was polishing the panels without polish
> 
> I will say my pads are tired though... got a new set coming this week that I hope will help :thumb:
> 
> Used the 3M machine polish Perfect-It and found it leaves holograms rather easily... got some Ultrafina SE to try this weekend so will be giving that a go...
> 
> As much as I love Menz when it works I need a product that works ALL the time not when it can be arsed :devil: :lol:


Yeah the 3M sometimes does look like you're buffing a dry panel but just keep going as the polish is working, Matt at OYM said the same thing when i asked him.

I tend to use the same as the Menz too, just a blob in the middle of the pad, spread at 900 rpm's then work at 1500/1800rpms 

Alex - we got it from the local rep (i think!), i'll see if its floating about the office tomoro :thumb:


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## Alex L

Clark said:


> Alex - we got it from the local rep (i think!), i'll see if its floating about the office tomoro :thumb:


Cheers buddy :thumb:


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## Mr OCD

Clark said:


> Yeah the 3M sometimes does look like you're buffing a dry panel but just keep going as the polish is working, Matt at OYM said the same thing when i asked him.
> 
> I tend to use the same as the Menz too, just a blob in the middle of the pad, spread at 900 rpm's then work at 1500/1800rpms


Will give it another go Friday... correction with the 3M machine polish is superb even on rock hard paint :thumb:


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## ianFRST

is this one of them? the ad does not have any codes on it

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Car-Polish-3M...ryZ28641QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## Porta

ianFRST said:


> is this one of them? the ad does not have any codes on it
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Car-Polish-3M...ryZ28641QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


This is from another serie.


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## Pad

ianFRST said:


> ???????


yes, yes, alright...


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## Mucky

ianFRST said:


> is this one of them? the ad does not have any codes on it
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Car-Polish-3M...ryZ28641QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


i have some of this,acts a bit like srp,but is silicone free so wont last long but its not bad

actually its called finishing material and the code is 09639


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## Bence

I'd do a thorough wipedown with Prepsol after working with a 3M compound.


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## Porta

Bence said:


> I'd do a thorough wipedown with Prepsol after working with a 3M compound.


I used a silikonferner after the 3M 50077 trizact, but no fillers like you experienced.


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## Mr OCD

*List of 3M...*

PART NO	DESCRIPTION
09374	3M Perfect it III Fast Cut Compund
50077	3M Perfect it III Trizact Compund 
09375	3M Perfect it III Fine Compund
80349	3M Perfect it III Extra Fine Compund

09376	3M Perfect it III Machine Polish 
50383	3M Perfect it III Ultrafina SE Polish

80345	3M Polish Rosa

09550	Compunding Pad
09378	High Gloss Finish Pad
50388	Ultrafina SE Polishing Pad

09552	Back Up Pad (Backing Plate)
09553	Back Up Pad (Backing Plate)

05729	Foam D/A Glazing Pad


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## Porta

These are the newest:

50077 3M Perfect it III Trizact Compund 
80349 3M Perfect it III Extra Fine Compund
50383 3M Perfect it III Ultrafina SE Polish
80345 3M Polish Rosa


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## Mr OCD

I will be using the Ultrafina SE this weekend...


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## Mucky

got some prices from brown brothers yesterday

50388 blue pads 14.32 +vat
50077 15.70 +vat
80349 19.98+vat
50383 24.34 +vat


and yes you guessed it the guy on the phone didnt have a clue what i was talking about


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## Mucky

PART NO	DESCRIPTION
09374	3M Perfect it III Fast Cut Compund
50077	3M Perfect it III Trizact Compund 
09375	3M Perfect it III Fine Compund
80349	3M Perfect it III Extra Fine Compund
09377 3M Perfect it III finishing glaze

09376	3M Perfect it III Machine Polish 
50383	3M Perfect it III Ultrafina SE Polish

80345	3M Polish Rosa 

09550	Compunding Pad
09378	High Gloss Finish Pad
50388	Ultrafina SE Polishing Pad

09552	Back Up Pad (Backing Plate)
09553	Back Up Pad (Backing Plate)

05729	Foam D/A Glazing Pad

09639 3M finesse it finishing material

added a couple more to scotts list


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## ianFRST

gona go to my local brown brothers and ask then


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## Alex L

Anyone got any pics of the pads as I'm getting fed up with trying to centre the Megs pads.


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## Autoshine

Been using the 3M prods alot latley and must say I am very impressed.
The Trizac [spelling] and the ultrafina are damn good!!

They have just brought out a 'buffing kit' with various stuff in it like pads and a couple of 5L's of product. About £150 I believe.

Supposed to be there new generation gear.

Maybe worth a look.


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## maesal

Engine_Swap said:


> :wave:
> 
> I was applying it pretty much the same way on a Megs polishing pad as I do with Menz IP... so I reduced the amount as it was flinging and it felt as though I was polishing the panels without polish
> 
> I will say my pads are tired though... got a new set coming this week that I hope will help :thumb:
> 
> Used the 3M machine polish Perfect-It and found it leaves holograms rather easily... got some Ultrafina SE to try this weekend so will be giving that a go...
> 
> As much as I love Menz when it works I need a product that works ALL the time not when it can be arsed :devil: :lol:


Wich 3M polish? This?


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## Mr OCD

Yup thats the one...


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## maesal

Engine_Swap said:


> Yup thats the one...


Ok, then when you try the 50383 you'll notice a massive improvement :buffer:


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## maesal

Here are my 3M polish and the PAD received today:










Regards :wave:


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## AndyC

Put it this way, whenever I now go out to detail I take not only my Menz but also my 80, 82, 83 & 84 just in case.

Menzerna's pretty much unbeatable for me - when the conditions are right. If they're not then it can be a complete ar5e to work with :wall:


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## Dave KG

^^^ I'm like you Andy, always have the Megs #80 series polishes on hand as they are reliable, and excellent polishes when used right. 

Today was one of these days for Menz for a time, when the temp got up, it was a PITA to use... temp dropped and it came back on song, and when its on song, there's nothing out there that can touch it IMHO.


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## wytco0

maesal said:


> Here are my 3M polish and the PAD received today:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards :wave:


Maesal, where did you order them from?


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## Dream Machines

I have noticed that with menz as well but I still manage to finish the car with it.
85RD is the one that causes the most hassles. IP doesn't have much power on normal clears and if you work it just a tad too long, it goes hard on the paint and you need the right towel and plenty of spray to pry it off.

Sonus, Aussie gold diamond and Prima are what I will use mostly if Menz don't like the temp on the day.


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## maesal

wytco0 said:


> Maesal, where did you order them from?


I bought here in Valencia (Spain) the 09374 (a rubbing compound) and the 80349 (polish for ceramic clear coats). And the 50383 and 50077 on eBay.de.
Regards.


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## Brazo

It was crap yesterday lol, megs 83 to the rescue!


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## Mr OCD

Brazo said:


> It was crap yesterday lol, megs 83 to the rescue!


Same... used Menz IP 3.02 for the bonnet and roof... went to do the boot lid and here we go again... :wall: :wall:

So out came the 3M ... result :thumb:


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## Guest

Doing a quick Google and came up with this UK site that has a decent range of 3M stuff. Looks like they carry all the Perfect-It III polishes.

I also like the rotary they sell for £70+VAT that has a soft start and electronic speed control.

http://www.consumablesexpress.co.uk

I have not used them so can't comment on their service.


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## Dave KG

Brazo said:


> It was crap yesterday lol, megs 83 to the rescue!


Same for me yesterday, and it was Megs #83 that came out for me too... I will try out the 3M range more thoroughly, I have dabbled with the products. But I have over a gallon of #83 in the house, which works superbly and I really enjoy using it and the finish it delivers so if Menz continues to play up, this will go back to being my staple polish owing the the excellent results I can achieve from it.


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## wytco0

Phisp said:


> Doing a quick Google and came up with this UK site that has a decent range of 3M stuff. Looks like they carry all the Perfect-It III polishes.
> 
> I also like the rotary they sell for £70+VAT that has a soft start and electronic speed control.
> 
> http://www.consumablesexpress.co.uk
> 
> I have not used them so can't comment on their service.


This is the site I had found but its very confusing, its not clear what you are buying as things get bundled when you order them, the prices and the product descriptions are confusing and the order system is often offline.

Apart from that ........


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## Alex L

Megs #84 and #80 for me today and next to no dust either, but Neils side of the car was very dusty and he used mainly Menz.


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## Neil_S

Had to mix the PO85RD3.02 with PO106FF today due to the premature drying of 3.02. Worked, but got lots of dust.


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## Mr OCD

My entire Menz collection is going up for sale shortly... seriously fed up with the dust and the fact it works when it wants too... 

Sticking with 3M.


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## nexus66

If the Menz polishes are very prone to working/not working depending on the weather, what weather conditions make it work well/work badly??

Given that I have a BM with very hard clear, what other products should I be thinking of that will have enough cut to handle such paint?


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## Alex L

nexus66 said:


> If the Menz polishes are very prone to working/not working depending on the weather, what weather conditions make it work well/work badly??
> 
> Given that I have a BM with very hard clear, what other products should I be thinking of that will have enough cut to handle such paint?


If it's a newish BM I wouldnt worry too much, I've found most newish BMs only needed Menz 106FF.


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## Mr OCD

nexus66 said:


> If the Menz polishes are very prone to working/not working depending on the weather, what weather conditions make it work well/work badly??
> 
> Given that I have a BM with very hard clear, what other products should I be thinking of that will have enough cut to handle such paint?


From my experience of working with Menz polishes I find either cold weather (less than 10degC) or warm / hot weather (above 20degC) cause problems... with the cold weather you can get away with heating the polish via site lights prior to using it but when its too warm the polish just clots, doesnt spread, dusts badly and causes buffer hop...

Menz IP is much worse than FF ... in most cases I can make FF work if having problems but IP is terrible when its not working


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## ianFRST

i used the menz for the 1st time today in my garage, 1st time ive managed to use it in controlled conditions, i was using the blob of 3.02 and blob of FF, dusted a little, but worked very well  

but as always, my garage will get filled with crap again, so polishing will be outside again, so im going to give the 3m a try, theres a bloke on ebay selling it, and he is local to me so i can collect


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## ianFRST

mucky_marques said:


> got some prices from brown brothers yesterday
> 
> 50388 blue pads 14.32 +vat
> 50077 15.70 +vat
> 80349 19.98+vat
> 50383 24.34 +vat
> 
> and yes you guessed it the guy on the phone didnt have a clue what i was talking about


went to brown brothers earlier, and got some prices, bit different to yours, lol

50388 blue pads 11.54 +vat
50077 12.65 +vat
80349 16.09 +vat
50383 19.61 +vat


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## Clark @ PB

Did some further testing with the 3M Polishes yesterday, i wont be using them again as after a wipe down with some spirits it revelaed they contain a rather large amount of fillers, some more than others....


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## maesal

Clark said:


> Did some further testing with the 3M Polishes yesterday, i wont be using them again as after a wipe down with some spirits it revelaed they contain a rather large amount of fillers, some more than others....


 
Wich codes? 
In other forum some people said that 50077 contains fillers, but I used it, and then a 1z Acrysol wipedown and didn't found any surprise...


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## Rich @ PB

Aye, I was genuinely very shocked yesterday by the results Clark was getting on one of our BMW scrap panels; every single 3M polish we have been trying seems to contain a healthy dose of fillers. The only ones we haven't tested are the 50383 3M Perfect it III Ultrafina SE Polish and the 80345 3M Polish Rosa. We used neat methylated spirits for the wipe downs, as opposed to an alcohol/water mix. Interestingly, none of the Menzerna range appear to have any fillers, based on the same style of testing. We have been anxious to find a backup for Menzerna on mobile jobs where the working conditions (temp/humidity) aren't controlled (as they are in our unit), but alas, after a very promising start the 3M range now seems to be a risky proposition in terms of guaranteed correction results. Looks like PO91L and possibly even Power Gloss will remain our backup options when the 3.02 isn't working on mobile jobs.


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## Porta

Clark said:


> Did some further testing with the 3M Polishes yesterday, i wont be using them again as after a wipe down with some spirits it revelaed they contain a rather large amount of fillers, some more than others....


Ouch, I just did a IPA wipedown after 50077 and didn´t see any fillers. Must test on a scrap panel and use silikonferner or something like that. Wich products did you use and wich one filled best?



WX51 TXR said:


> Looks like PO91L and possibly even Power Gloss will remain our backup options when the 3.02 isn't working on mobile jobs.


Test Scholl concepts. S3, S17 and S30+. IMO very good.

Btw is a wax 80345 3M Polish Rosa and contains therfore fillers and I guess silicone.


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## Bence

Yesyesyesyesyesyes!!!

Something strong (as the fillers are pretty stable) and the truth will be revealed...


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## ianFRST

why is having fillers bad?

i presume its because it "might" hide any minor swirls?

and just as ive bought some of the polish aswell, dammit, lol.


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## Porta

Bence said:


> Yesyesyesyesyesyes!!!
> 
> Something strong (as the fillers are pretty stable) and the truth will be revealed...


I know you told me this about the 50077 Trizact compound...must try with the silikonferner.


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## Brazo

ianFRST said:


> why is having fillers bad?
> 
> i presume its because it "might" hide any minor swirls?
> 
> and just as ive bought some of the polish aswell, dammit, lol.


They are not bad in themselves, indeed they can produce a good finish where full correction isn't needed/wanted.

But if your advertising your services as a 'deswirl' then it needs to be 'permanent'


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## Muddy

Very interesting read this thread :thumb: 

I pretty much use the menzerna range on all my details. I haven't quite settled with the meguiars range for some reason, but I'll try it out on teh odd occasion.

I too have days where the menzerna works a dream gices me no headaches. 
I also have days when I want to throw my teddy out the cot and give up. When this happens I either add 106 or spray last touch as often as possible, this just means sometimes have to go over the panel again. I also find the the zenith technique works really well with the menzerna polishes.

I was quite excited to hear that you guys have been having good success with the 3M range. I had noticed Clark was using this stuff a fe wmonths back and was tempted myself. Not sure now if it contains fillers  .

Looks like I'll have to stick to menzerna.

Anybody used the Farcela range as a successful detailing polish???


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## Jakedoodles

I managed to get a few hours today having another play with the Menz and it's definitely temperature related. Using the Zenith technique, I had absolutely no problems at all for a good 45 minutes. Then the temp dropped, and the atmosphere started to dampen a little (that's literally, not metaphorically!) and once again, it started clumping. Stuck some sight lights up and et voila, working fine again. I guess the simple solution is controlled environment, or use 3m/Megs!


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## rydawg

Great thread guys!

I use 3.02 a lot and the past 4 months have had no issues at all. The best pad to use is the LC orange pad. I soak it with water at first to soften it and then spin dry it on the rotary. I also shake the bottle for 5 minutes straight.

Also, I NEVER put polish on the middle of the pad as I found this clumps the pad. I put 4 drops at the ends of the pad 1 cm from the edge, at 12/3/6/9 o'clock and work my working area at 600rpm to break the polish evenly, then crank the speed up and work the magic.

I have used this method on 100 degree days with extreme humidity and have had no issues via rotary.

At first when I used the megs pads and put the polish in the center it would clump.

I have done some extremely excellent jobs with 3.02 and think it is by far the best (thanks porta). It is time consuming sometimes, but all well worth it. The crisp detail it gives is something hard to get with other polishes. I have studied Menzerna polishes at the best and worst and tried to find the best way to get the best working method from them.

Hope this helps.
Ryan


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## Brazo

Some great tips their Ryan :thumb:


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## maesal

rydawg said:


> Great thread guys!
> 
> I use 3.02 a lot and the past 4 months have had no issues at all. The best pad to use is the LC orange pad. I soak it with water at first to soften it and then spin dry it on the rotary. I also shake the bottle for 5 minutes straight.
> 
> Also, I NEVER put polish on the middle of the pad as I found this clumps the pad. I put 4 drops at the ends of the pad 1 cm from the edge, at 12/3/6/9 o'clock and work my working area at 600rpm to break the polish evenly, then crank the speed up and work the magic.
> 
> I have used this method on 100 degree days with extreme humidity and have had no issues via rotary.
> 
> At first when I used the megs pads and put the polish in the center it would clump.
> 
> I have done some extremely excellent jobs with 3.02 and think it is by far the best (thanks porta). It is time consuming sometimes, but all well worth it. The crisp detail it gives is something hard to get with other polishes. I have studied Menzerna polishes at the best and worst and tried to find the best way to get the best working method from them.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> Ryan


Wow !! 
Hi Ryan, always a pleasure read comments from you :thumb: 
Regards mate. :wave:


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## rydawg

maesal said:


> Wow !!
> Hi Ryan, always a pleasure read comments from you :thumb:
> Regards mate. :wave:


Thanks. Good to read stuff from you and everyone here also:wave:


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## maesal

The 50077 has lots of fillers, I'll upload some pics. The 80349 and 50383 don't have.


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## Porta

Mario, post the pics asap!


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## rydawg

The one problem I have had with 3.02 is when I have done cars that have covered with high silicone products, 3.02 will smear and leave patches. It will just hover above the clear and do nothing while leaving these hard to remove silicone patches. 

The only cars I have experienced this is with used dealer cars that come from the auction and that have been covered with a silicone spray to add a quick shine from the hack dealers. I have been spraying the cars down with Megs body solvent to remove some of it and then degreasing it with my own solution mix.

Certain tire shines will have high silicone content in them also and when the overspray gets on the vehicle it is a pain to remove and will make 3.02 not work and just sit and spin in hydro mode. I even tried using a body shop grade prep solvent and still would not get the silicone patches off 100%. 

Using 3m compounds to break the barrier first helps.


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## ianFRST

maesal said:


> The 50077 has lots of fillers, I'll upload some pics. The 80349 and 50383 don't have.


i had to take my 80349 back as it was out of date  

i pick up the 50383 on monday, so ill try it then. really looking for forward to trying them out

i tried the 3m blue pad with some 106FF earlier, and wow, what an awesome pad.


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## TOGWT

Ryan, try this-

*Prep Wash:*
Use to prepare paint for polishing, compounding, wax and / or polymer sealant application Prep Wash is a water-based paint cleaner designed to remove all traces of silicone, oil, and buffing residue from any exterior surface, residue from these formulas accumulate in crevices, around handles, wiper arms, on trim, luggage racks, and aerodynamics. Hi-Temp's Prep Wash flows into these hard-to-reach areas and dissolves the build-up.

Body Shops use Prep Wash to cleanse the finish before painting, and you can use it after buffing or levelling applications. It prepares the surface for the proper bonding of waxes, glazes and paint sealants. If this is not done properly, waxes may not bond, which will cause heavy streaking.

Prep Wash may be diluted, but is always used sparingly at any strength. Mist a cloth or sponge and wipe over the surface. Wipe dry with a clean towel - http://www.topoftheline.com.

*TOGWT*


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## Porta

rydawg said:


> I have done some extremely excellent jobs with 3.02 and think it is by far the best (thanks porta).


You are welcome


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## maesal

ianFRST said:


> i had to take my 80349 back as it was out of date
> 
> i pick up the 50383 on monday, so ill try it then. really looking for forward to trying them out
> 
> i tried the 3m blue pad with some 106FF earlier, and wow, what an awesome pad.


I agree, I'm buffing a 335i with this pad and 50383 and 106FF, is amazing.


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## ianFRST

ive only ever tried the sonus sfx blue finishing pad before this, and to compare the 2 its a no brainer.

and at like £12 for the pair of pads, i ordered another pair when i returned the out of date polish  lol


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## Clark @ PB

Muddy said:


> Anybody used the Farcela range as a successful detailing polish???


I tried a sample of the Farcela total Compound (dry use) and it seemed very good, quite aggressive but finished down LSP ready and appeared to contain no fillers after a wipe down 

I'm sticking to Menz now, the PO9L does work very well under any conditions, although sometimes you need more than one hit per panel at high RPM's compared to 3.02, but if it works and the rotary moves across the panels smoothly thats good enough for me!


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## maesal

Clark said:


> I tried a sample of the Farcela total Compound (dry use) and it seemed very good, quite aggressive but finished down LSP ready and appeared to contain no fillers after a wipe down
> 
> I'm sticking to Menz now, the PO9L does work very well under any conditions, although sometimes you need more than one hit per panel at high RPM's compared to 3.02, but if it works and the rotary moves across the panels smoothly thats good enough for me!


You can try the Presta line, the Ultra Cutting Creme Light is very good also.
I used today the RD3.01 and PO106FF with great results, and the weather here is around 40 ºC.


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## Dream Machines

Farecla G3 is a slightly messy compound that I only use on single stage 80's paints. (I did an 81 Holden Gemini for my mate on saturday) with it with a edge black wool and 3M foams (cheap job)

However I'd never use farecla on modern paints. 
Menzerna 106 is slightly better than 3.01 IMO and I love that squeaky clean feeling when you remove it

There are plenty of other polishes out there besides 3M and Meg's if Menz don't wanna work with you on the day
Sonus, Dinitrol, Presta UCC, Prima (seems to be very under rated here), Aussie Gold Diamond finish, clear cut (2000 grit), Duragleam and Showroom Glaze spray polish. KDS also have some amazing ones.


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## rydawg

Presta polishes and compounds are one of the best for wool and I have been using for 12 years now, but works ok on foam. The ultra cutting creme does work well on foam and will give a great cut while leaving excellent gloss and then follow up with 106 for the perfect finish.

The 1500 Cleaner Polish or Swirl Remover Polish works well on a foamed wool pad and will remove defects while restoring gloss to it's highest.


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## maesal

Here is a gif that shows how much the 50077 fills and that 50383 doesn't fill at all:










I'll upload another gif with 80349 + Presta Chroma 1500 Polish.


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## ianFRST

jeepers, that does hide a fair amount


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## maesal

Another test. The 80349 doesn't fill at all. Presta Chroma 1500 polish for finishing.










Regards


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## Porta

Holy moses! I must stop using the 50077...


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## maesal

Porta said:


> Holy moses! I must stop using the 50077...


Sure, I'll not use it again  
I sent you an email about the PTG, have you read it?
Regards Marcus !!


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## Mr OCD

Anyone used 09376 yet?

What did you think?

I really like this polish... similar to IP in cut...


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## maesal

Engine_Swap said:


> Anyone used 09376 yet?
> 
> What did you think?
> 
> I really like this polish... similar to IP in cut...


I tried it twice and I don't like it, I much prefer the 50383, Menz FF...
This polish is clasified as low abrassive, like the above ones.


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## Rich @ PB

Working from home this morning, I'll double check the codes we used this pm and post again - not sure if we tested 80349. Going to get some 50383 this week to test. Can you give an indication of the cut level given by 80349? Is it closer to 3.02 or 106FA?


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## maesal

You'll love the 50383, sure 
Check the porta's info here.


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## Rich @ PB

rydawg said:


> The one problem I have had with 3.02 is when I have done cars that have covered with high silicone products, 3.02 will smear and leave patches. It will just hover above the clear and do nothing while leaving these hard to remove silicone patches.
> 
> The only cars I have experienced this is with used dealer cars that come from the auction and that have been covered with a silicone spray to add a quick shine from the hack dealers. I have been spraying the cars down with Megs body solvent to remove some of it and then degreasing it with my own solution mix.
> 
> Certain tire shines will have high silicone content in them also and when the overspray gets on the vehicle it is a pain to remove and will make 3.02 not work and just sit and spin in hydro mode. I even tried using a body shop grade prep solvent and still would not get the silicone patches off 100%.
> 
> Using 3m compounds to break the barrier first helps.


We've seen this problem too, again on cars coming from dealerships or paint shops where they have clearly used a high silicone content product to give a quick shine. Major pain in the bum.


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## Rich @ PB

maesal said:


> You'll love the 50383, sure
> Check the porta's info here.


Thanks, lol, I had just reread the thread as well, still managed to miss that post!


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## maesal

WX51 TXR said:


> Thanks, lol, I had just reread the thread as well, still managed to miss that post!


Waiting for your pics/comments about the 3M tests :thumb: 
Regards :wave:


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## Mr OCD

maesal said:


> I tried it twice and I don't like it, I much prefer the 50383, Menz FF...
> This polish is clasified as low abrassive, like the above ones.


50383 / Menz FF doesnt have the cutting ability of 09376 though which is on par with Menz IP... I would need something similar :thumb:

50383 is a very good product though :thumb:


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## maesal

Engine_Swap said:


> 50383 / Menz FF doesnt have the cutting ability of 09376 though which is on par with Menz IP... I would need something similar :thumb:
> 
> 50383 is a very good product though :thumb:


I'll try again the 09376 and update :thumb: :buffer:


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## Porta

80439 is IMO a very good product, will give a good cut if used with proper pad but also delivers a nice shine.


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## Offyourmarks

a point worthy of note

all polishes and compounds are generally designed and developed with the use of certain pads. ie if you want to get the best from 3m PI3 fine compound then use a 3m compounding pad. polishes/compounds work best when used in this way. as people have noted that the 3m PI3 FC works well with pressure on a megs pad - then thinking laterally its down to greater heat/friction and the rate at which its broken down and worked. Using a 3m compounding pad in a regular way produces the same results.

i use menz pads with menz polish - seems fine to me. I usually find problems occur with paint type and colour, and also on panle size too - all things that affect the heat build and/or dissipation 

just my 2pw


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## Eurogloss

Have any of you Guys tried the Sonax Range of Polishes ?
They are just as good as Menzerna and 3M !:thumb:


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## maesal

Yes, I really like Nano Polish, its finish great


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## Jakedoodles

I've actually switched completely to 3m now. If you work it in well, it's as good as Menz imo. And in fact, leaves a better finish. I've not had any issue with drop back either (have re-visited a few cars I've used it on a couple of weeks later - and all OK.)


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## NN1

wonderdetail: which 3m polishes do you use mate? how do they compare to megs?


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## Dream Machines

Guys, I just dont understand why your having so many problems
My workshop gets up to around 40 C degrees during summer and yet I am still able to use all the menzerna products with no problem

Now if your out in the sunlight I could perhaps understand why but it's not wise to do that

Lake country pads are best for working Menzerna and if it dries up on you, simply add extra glycerin to the bottle
Lately I have been working on BMW's and there is no doubt that menz performs its best on german paint

Lesser quality cars today can have sticky clearcoat. It goes all tacky once it gets heated up from the friction of the rotary

The best way to eliminate dust, quick drying and other trouble is to apply Glare Zero at 1500 to 1800 rpm for a few minutes on each panel, lightly wipe off most of the oily residue and then apply 106FF to the panel and start working

The polish will spread forever and never dry up because the Zero has tonnes of lubrication. 
Plus the zero softens the paint so that you can get the defects out with a lighter polish or pad

106FF spreading with zero's residue still there (using rotary)


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## Frothey

_My workshop gets up to around 40 C degrees during summer and yet I am still able to use all the menzerna products with no problem_

Ha - the joys of living in Oz! The problems for me is when its less than 10 C - for us 40C is something we see on a washing machine :lol:


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## Dream Machines

Oh I see. so the cold is the problem. maybe heat the bottle under the tap with hot water or let it soak in it for a while before you start detailing


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## Frothey

its currently -2 and i'm about to leave for a job...... dont think it'll stay very warm when it hits the panel! hence why i'll be using megs (probably).


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## paddy328

Im detailing a Q7 today and i hope the menz doesnt play up too much. Ive got megs and 3m stuff if it starts being a pain though. Wish it wasnt like it is, because its awesome when its on form.


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## Brazo

Dream Machines said:


> Oh I see. so the cold is the problem. maybe heat the bottle under the tap with hot water or let it soak in it for a while before you start detailing


Update

Having used Menz sucsessfully quite a bit in the recednt cold snap, My thoughts are that cold makes it slightly more difficult to work with, however once worked in and the panel gets warm its just as easy to use on a warm day. WHat does however affect it is relative humidity. A very cold 3C but super dry day and its fine. A warmer 10C but moist day and its not!

I first noticed this problem in Sept 2006. It was about 20C but very moist day with high humidity.

Zaino works or doesn't work in pretty much the same way


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## Clark @ PB

I'm at the point now where i'll do a test section with the Menz and if there's any signs of it playing up then i'll swap over to 3M, all of their new non-filler range is just as good, if not better


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