# Autoglym Engine and Machine Degreaser disaster !!



## weejp (Feb 21, 2008)

Was attempting a bit of a clean up of the engine bay on my new (to me) Mini Cooper. The engine bay was a real state I can guarantee it had never been cleaned in its life, complete with spiders webs!

Well I started by spraying the engine bay with AG Engine Degreaser, I thought an ideal tool for the job, left it to dwell for a few minutes then started working it with a cloth - it was going fine on the plastics, hoses, housings and exposed metal but on the painted areas around the struts well.... the paint just wiped straight off leaving me with red cloths, I couldn't believe it!!

Now the car is not dodgy or anything so I can't understand why this has happened, AG Engine Degreaser has been a great product for me on other cars, really works a treat - how come it's eating the paint like paint stripper on the Mini?  Have I done something wrong?

Absolutely gutted the engine bay is never going to look great now! I suppose another thing is what to do with the areas it's ripped the paint off?? To say I'm livid is an understatement :devil:


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## turboyamaha (Nov 18, 2010)

Damn really sorry to hear that!!


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## Mattey h (Apr 19, 2011)

There was a post on here recently about this.
Apparently BMW use really soft paint without any clearcoat on the engine and boot shuts. The member who found this out lives in Australia, and had similar issues with his mini, when detailing his engine.

Found the thread.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=251009


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## bornlucky (Dec 29, 2010)

i've had this on a mini using only a mild g101 mix, not good.


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## banditbarron (Sep 1, 2007)

Well I'd be knocking on the nearest Mini dealership 1st thing in the morning. 

Obviously a major defect and car not fit for purpose. Make them sort it out for you.


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## WP-UK (Apr 24, 2011)

Not good at all! Something to watch out for on mine


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## weejp (Feb 21, 2008)

banditbarron said:


> Well I'd be knocking on the nearest Mini dealership 1st thing in the morning.
> 
> Obviously a major defect and car not fit for purpose. Make them sort it out for you.


Would they not just laugh in my face, and say something along the lines of.... tough?


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## TubbyTwo (Apr 14, 2011)

sounds like poor build quality. Considering the engine bay would be expected to come into contact with some form of cleaners its not acceptable.

go back and shout.


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## weejp (Feb 21, 2008)

I would like to but I bought it privately, does anyone know what warranty would apply here, I presume the paintwork warranty so that would be long expired (I'd imagine) they normally last only 3 years. The car is 2002.


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## traplin (Feb 22, 2012)

How bad is it and how extensive? Could you not consider a DIY repair with a rattle can? Its in the engine bay so if it were me I'd have a go at rubbing it down then rattle can and finishing with a clear coat...halfords do a clear coat that is petrol resistant so should hold up well when next you want to give the engine bay a clean.


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## weejp (Feb 21, 2008)

My worry is that it'll look dodgy when it comes to selling it on. I understand it might not look great as it is but at least its honest, I suppose.

Also I barely get time to clean it, I don't have a garage and live in the windiest place on earth, I think??!!!


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## banditbarron (Sep 1, 2007)

If they laugh at you you can just laugh rite back at them

Its poor workmanship and pretty sure Trading Standards etc would love to help you out too (thats what they are there for)

I'm pretty sure BMW/MINI UK will be fully aware of the problem :thumb:

Dave


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## james_19742000 (May 8, 2008)

Dont many of these bodywork warranties word it along the lines of 'if the paint fails' and some are valid for anything up to 12 years? In my eyes the paint has failed, simple, however its the length of the warranty that would be the issue.


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## TJenkos (May 6, 2009)

I'd noticed this happening on the wing area under the bonnet when cleaning with my last two MINI's, fortunately caught it before I left a visible trace..

Whilst you could argue that it's 'poor workmanship', the car is now 10 years old and will be long past any paint warranty it came with. If it was a viable issue, don't you think it'd have been highlighted sooner and something done about it?

I'd be inclined to just leave it rather than repair it like you say. Does it look bad?


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## Mattey h (Apr 19, 2011)

In my opinion you should take it up with a main dealer or BMW uk directly.
You have got nowt to loose if you ask, and if you don't ask you don't get.
At the end of the day, the conditions under a car bonnet are pretty extreme, and the quality of the paint should reflect that. There should be no reason to use lesser quality paint under the bonnet, and as the shells are most probably dipped at the factory, the paint should be the same as the rest of the car. Makes you wonder how the rest of the paint doesn't come off when you wash it, must be the clear coat.


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## mattsbmw (Jul 20, 2008)

BMW UK are probably your best bet rather than a dealer. do you have any pics you could post?


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

BMW mini paint on shuts and other hidden areas is super thin, on my R56 MCS when I removed the travel wax under the bonnet there was large areas that were not even painted. Dealer sorted it on warranty. BMW can be arsey so don't tell them you used Degreaser (I know it's safe) they love to find excuses IMHO. Just say you were wiping it over and saw the area weren't painted right. Any photos?.


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## adf27 (Mar 14, 2012)

If you think about the way a dealer tries to sell a car, if you go to him and tell him you will never buy another mini again if he doesn't help, he should oblige. If not, tell them they a complete


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## OldskoolRS (May 5, 2011)

*Diluted Surfex OK on Mini/BMW Z3*

Looks like I was lucky: Last year my OH bought a '56 plate Mini One in Chilli Red and as part of an overall detail I cleaned the engine bay: This might help others as I use diluted Surfex (about 5:1 maybe nearer 10:1), left to dwell for 10 minutes then wiped/rinsed off with a microfibre cloth. I did all the door shuts, boot shuts, etc too. It was strong enough to remove the grime and grease, but not the paint. :doublesho

I've also done my own recently bought Z3 which has very dull underbonnet paint which looks like it would be hard to repaint if it got marked (a strange flat blue that looks nothing like the metallic blue on the outer body work). I would like to clean up and repaint the front slam panel as there is a bit of surface rust, but the odd colour puts me off trying as I would normally have used a rattlecan for such a small area, but don't know what colour to buy.


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## envious89 (Aug 24, 2010)

Hi weejp.

I'm the member who is from
Australia and has this happen to me
Recently. 

I went to BMW I see if they would cover it under insurance and they just palmed it off. 

I got hit with a $2500 bill to fix the paint that dissolved in front of my eyes in the engine bay and the boot shuts, where the white roof meets the red. 

Luckily for me, the client was a regular and was understanding on the matter and what had happened. 

Hopefully BMW can sort you out, unlike what they did to me.

What year model is your mini? With me, it was an 04 chilli red mini cooper.

Cheers 

Blake


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

Ps, op I've used AG engine and motor on both my mini and several others on a number of occasion and it has never affected paint. So don't let them claim it's your fault!!.


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## weejp (Feb 21, 2008)

Thanks everyone for your useful advise and suggestions. DW is a really useful resource - always someone willing to offer helpful comments.

I will post some pictures, I have to add that I was doing the boot shut where the white paint meets the red and the white paint has disintegrated there as well, trying to make the car tidier and more cared for and this is the result.

I feel really cheated. Sorry to hear others have suffered too, it's damn poor.

Just to add to my worries I have just bought an E90 do I need to worry about dire paint finish on the shuts on this car too?

Received Meg Super Degreaser (big one) yesterday - I am now afraid to use it.....


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## georgey2011 (Oct 24, 2011)

I was going to say but others have said, they havent clearcoated the engine bay, just paint, i had the same issue with my alloys, theyd just been sprayed gloss black paint, no clearcote, sprayed them with bilberry went to get the jetwash came back , stripey stripey alloys  had to repaint them in the end  i guess you learn to try the product after this on a safe area to see if its safe rather than just blasting it on and hoping for the best hey..

We live and we learn ! For now you could just cover the engine bay mask it up and paint the damaged parts satin black with rattle can for now until you can afford or get time to get them repainted properly.


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

No I've got an e90 too, paint is fine all over.


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## weejp (Feb 21, 2008)

Danno1975 said:


> No I've got an e90 too, paint is fine all over.


Is it the Touring in the avatar? Is that colour sparkling graphite?

If so we have the same combo.:thumb:

Thanks for the info.


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## weejp (Feb 21, 2008)

Well here's the worst of the engine bay damage.









and the same issue around the boot shut.


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

weejp said:


> Is it the Touring in the avatar? Is that colour sparkling graphite?
> 
> If so we have the same combo.:thumb:
> 
> Thanks for the info.


Yep, sparkling graphite e90 and a pepper white and black cooper s


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

weejp said:


> Well here's the worst of the engine bay damage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Crikey, looks like the paint they used in films where a quick car wash changed the colour in a car chase !!!. No way AG products would do that. Though BMW will no doubt say that after ten years of it not happening it could not possibly be there fault !?, they are slippery much as I love the cars.


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## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

That is terrible! my other half has a r56 and I've never had this problem using Surfex hd at 10:1. 

what model is yours?


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## weejp (Feb 21, 2008)

R50 cooper with chili pack.
Chili Red with Pepper White roof and mirrors.


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## slineclean (Dec 23, 2011)

At the Autobrite b2b event in Feb , one of the cars there we were working on was BMW and only 6mths old , under the bonnet you could the paint job finish was not the same as the top coat.


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## weejp (Feb 21, 2008)

I'll just have to live with it as much as it irritates me.


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## pegs (Oct 28, 2009)

Work in a dealership and we took a(Blue) mini in part ex, which sales manager decided to sell on the forecourt. 

Honest truth the paint ran of the underside of the bonnet and the strut housing by using just water.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Gingerbug224 (Dec 18, 2011)

id soaked my mates car with it, saw this and just panicked!!!
Clearly 80's BMW's are much better as engine ares all clean and paints still where its meant to be. :thumb:
Given the quality of BMW this is a little shocking.


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## weejp (Feb 21, 2008)

It's annoying - I just hope this post can save others from the same scenario.


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## Eskimo68 (Sep 25, 2011)

I encountered same problem on Ford Focus and Insignia the degreaser was rubbed into the paint left for a while then came to my workshop 2-toned for repair and paint just rubbed off onto my nitrile gloves, sleeves and anything else which touch the painted areas. 

I'd be inclined to point the problem towards the product and application not the car itself on basis most degreasers is like paint stripper directly on paint its ment for bare metal parts around the engine and drive train not bodywork unless heavily diluted first. 

The better stuff to use is brake and clutch cleaner spray for degreasing painted areas as it evaporates very very quickly so less chance of paint removal.


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## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

I've never encountered this before when using AG PM3, a traffic film remover, on single stage paints.

Even when it's been left on for ages and created run marks it hasn't actually dislodged the paint. So it seems strange.

A good smart repairer should be able to touch that in easily enough though :thumb:


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## weejp (Feb 21, 2008)

Eskimo68 said:


> I encountered same problem on Ford Focus and Insignia the degreaser was rubbed into the paint left for a while then came to my workshop 2-toned for repair and paint just rubbed off onto my nitrile gloves, sleeves and anything else which touch the painted areas.
> 
> I'd be inclined to point the problem towards the product and application not the car itself on basis most degreasers is like paint stripper directly on paint its ment for bare metal parts around the engine and drive train not bodywork unless heavily diluted first.
> 
> The better stuff to use is brake and clutch cleaner spray for degreasing painted areas as it evaporates very very quickly so less chance of paint removal.


You may have a point but AG Degreaser specifically states that it's safe for painted areas (I note it recommends testing on on an inconspicous area first)

You live - you learn (was that Alanis Morissette )


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## BandyQuill (Jun 21, 2010)

i use the same product on my R56 chillie red mini and have not had this issue, it may be that they didnt clearcoat the engine on the R53 models ?


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## weejp (Feb 21, 2008)

Yeah looks like the early ones (I have an R50) were 'sans' clear coat under the bonnet and boot shuts, don't know about door shuts and frankly will not be testing it to find out!


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

R56's have no clear coat under the bonnet of boot either, they do on the door shuts though.

When BMW sprayed mine due to the missing paint they wanted to clear coat just the one side which would have looked odd, they refused to do both so I've ended up with them not clear coating the repair so it's looks factory. To be fair it's never melted


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## Panther (Jan 19, 2012)

I have a mini cooper s 53 plate. Never had any problems with anything in the engine bay and i have tested alot in there! 

Very worrying though, but remember, TEST PATCH EVERYTHING!!! Better to be safe, take your time than pay for a respray....


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

In comparison look what what non stick removal stickers have done to my office unit!!!. Some finishes are pants.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

No clear under the bonnet of the Smax or Mrs C's Megane. 205's have none either but mine will be getting a load of it when she gets repainted.


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## stantheman (Dec 23, 2010)

It's not all bad news that there's no clearcoat in the engine bay, where else would you get your referance measurement points using a PTG?


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## Danno1975 (Mar 30, 2009)

stantheman said:


> it's not all bad news that there's no clearcoat in the engine bay, where else would you get your referance measurement points using a ptg?


👍👍👍👍👍😜


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