# Removing swirls from VW Tornado Red



## seckles (Feb 5, 2007)

Hi. It's been a while since I posted on here but I've just bought an 18 month old Tornado Red Golf GTI that's covered in the swirls. However, removing them is proving a little tricky! I've tried my Megs G220 with Menzerna Intensive polish on both a Megs orange pad and white pad and then Power finish on both orange and white pads all of which haven’t make much difference!

Has anyone any suggestions as what would work well on VW tornado red? Also any suggestions what I might be doing wrong? I would have thought that the intensive polish on a white (compounding pad) would work fine? 

Does it make a difference that's it's solid paint and not metallic? i.e. do I need different polishes / techniques etc?

Just how aggressive is power gloss? Is it safe to do the whole car with it (esp. as I don't have a PTG)? Would I need to do another pass with final finish or does power gloss leave a finish suitable for waxing? I'm a bit scared about using power gloss!

Thanks for your help

Steve


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## agpatel (Jun 5, 2009)

MKVs have a very hard clear on it, I also have a TR GTI. I use Menzeran SIP with a orange LC pad and follow it up with 106FF with a white pad. Menzerna polishes made for ceramic paint is really what you need. I have not used anything else but others who have polished hard VAG paint can chime in.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Thought it was Tornado red, but hey ho, anyways, I would just go over the car with a finishing polish, then follow up with a wax, some of the marks are likely to be under the clearcoat, so you will not remove them.


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## needhampr (Feb 13, 2006)

Not sure why some of the marks might be under the clear unless there are factory paint defects

I wouldn't personally use powergloss without a PTG. All Golfs seem to have very thin paint / clearcoat in certain areas - particularly at the bottom of the tailgate and areas of the bonnet & top of the wings. I found that Menz 3.02 and refined with 106FA did the job but as usual they had to be worked very well. I used Menz polishing pads for the 3.02 and then Megs polishing pad for the 106fa.

I had to play around quite a bit to find a good polish / pad combo and started as you might expect with the lightest combinations first. 
I found that the right pad was critical in getting the abrasives to work in the polish.


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## agpatel (Jun 5, 2009)

What is the avg reading you are getting around those thing areas, and what you getting around the normal area. I will be getting my gauge in tomorrow I hope. Also, how much clear is removed by a single pass of a polishes such as 3.02 and 106FF, have you ever checked? 1-2 micron?


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## needhampr (Feb 13, 2006)

agpatel said:


> What is the avg reading you are getting around those thing areas, and what you getting around the normal area. I will be getting my gauge in tomorrow I hope. Also, how much clear is removed by a single pass of a polishes such as 3.02 and 106FF, have you ever checked? 1-2 micron?


Average readings were around 120 - 140 but low areas were 90-110 in places. I plotted the before and after readings on a blueprint so I could refer to at a later date if need be. This seems to be quite common as I have measured other Golfs. Metallics have (marginally) thicker paint but still measure quite low in places. Using 3.02 and 106FF removed about 3 microns on average, 4 in places where deeper marks needed to be removed. :thumb:
As the paint is so hard, it's still difficult to do any damage even where the paint is thinner. It's definitely worth testing less abrasive polishes first as if anyone has a Golf which happens to have softer paint for some reason, you could potentially remove more clearcoat than necessary! Interestingly, all seem to have very thin paint at the bottom edge of the tailgate (90-100 microns) and this is where some get deeper scratches on it as they place their hands here to pull the tailgate down to close instead of using the internal recessed handle.


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## seckles (Feb 5, 2007)

Cheers, thanks for your replies. I think I'll just use IP on a white (cutting pad) and work it in a bit longer and live with what it doesn't get out. What I don't get is how come VW paint is so hard and difficult to polish out swirls yet is so easy to put swirls in when you're just washing the car  I'll try and post some pics when I'm done - which could be while as I'll be doing it in stages due to time constraints!

Steve


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## needhampr (Feb 13, 2006)

seckles said:


> Cheers, thanks for your replies. I think I'll just use IP on a white (cutting pad) and work it in a bit longer and live with what it doesn't get out. What I don't get is how come VW paint is so hard and difficult to polish out swirls yet is so easy to put swirls in when you're just washing the car  I'll try and post some pics when I'm done - which could be while as I'll be doing it in stages due to time constraints!
> 
> Steve


I know, it just doesn't add up; easy to swirl and hard to correct.
I suspect that you need to work the polish much longer. If you're bored out of your mind and desperate to move on to the next area, you probably need to work it a couple more minutes 
Mine only had very light swirling and the whole machine polish using the two Menz polishes took 9-10 hours and that's without breaks! Worth it in the end though :thumb:


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## seckles (Feb 5, 2007)

needhampr said:


> I know, it just doesn't add up; easy to swirl and hard to correct.
> I suspect that you need to work the polish much longer. If you're bored out of your mind and desperate to move on to the next area, you probably need to work it a couple more minutes


LOL. I've done one side today (menz IP 3.02 on a menz white pad, glaze, seal & wax) and I did move on at the "bored out of your mind and desperate to move on to the next area" stage! The finish isn't that great TBH, It looks pretty good from a distance but when I get up close and I shine my halogen on it then it looks crap and still full of swirls/scratches. I will try harder on the next side!


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## agpatel (Jun 5, 2009)

So i borrowed a paint gauge today and checked the car and getting around 100 micron on the hood, 110-115-120 (there were some higher but just taking the middle range of numbers that I saw) around the body, and here is the kicker the rear hatch is around 120-125. Now mind you this is with a coat of RBOE on it, dont know if that really adds too much? I have polished the car with SIP/106FF maybe 2x and just 106FF maybe 1-2x and 1x with Optimum compound. Door jambs read around 60-65 mic, so guessing that I am well in the safe zone...Hatch never been repainted fyi.

I really dont care much for 100% correction as its not really worth the time for a DD as the scratches that I normally get are hard to see unless its bright sun and you are close up, I have found that 106FF is a nice polish to use to get rid of swirls once you get a good correction.


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## agpatel (Jun 5, 2009)

seckles said:


> LOL. I've done one side today (menz IP 3.02 on a menz white pad, glaze, seal & wax) and I did move on at the "bored out of your mind and desperate to move on to the next area" stage! The finish isn't that great TBH, It looks pretty good from a distance but when I get up close and I shine my halogen on it then it looks crap and still full of swirls/scratches. I will try harder on the next side!


Follow SIP (3.02) with a finish polish to get rid of the marring the SIP put in. I have found that this will make the finish better, also try SIP with a orange LC pad that is what I use for hard area? What size pad are you using, I have found that to do corrected with a DA you really need 5-5.5" or less


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## needhampr (Feb 13, 2006)

agpatel said:


> So i borrowed a paint gauge today and checked the car and getting around 100 micron on the hood, 110-115-120 (there were some higher but just taking the middle range of numbers that I saw) around the body, and here is the kicker the rear hatch is around 120-125. Now mind you this is with a coat of RBOE on it, dont know if that really adds too much? I have polished the car with SIP/106FF maybe 2x and just 106FF maybe 1-2x and 1x with Optimum compound. Door jambs read around 60-65 mic, so guessing that I am well in the safe zone...Hatch never been repainted fyi.
> 
> I really dont care much for 100% correction as its not really worth the time for a DD as the scratches that I normally get are hard to see unless its bright sun and you are close up, I have found that 106FF is a nice polish to use to get rid of swirls once you get a good correction.


My rear hatch is raeding similar numbers to yours. It is only the very bottom 2-3 cm that reads exceptionally low.


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## needhampr (Feb 13, 2006)

agpatel said:


> Follow SIP (3.02) with a finish polish to get rid of the marring the SIP put in. I have found that this will make the finish better, also try SIP with a orange LC pad that is what I use for hard area? What size pad are you using, I have found that to do corrected with a DA you really need 5-5.5" or less


I agree. I particularly found the Menz pads were a good size to work with although it does take a noticeable amount of time longer with smaller pads!
On the VAG paint, the smaller and firmer pads created more friction & heat which in turn seemed to break down the abrasives in the polish more effectively.


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

Menz IP PO85RD3.02 on a yellow Sonus SFX1 light cutting pad, followed by 106FA on a white polishing SFX2 pad.

Worked like a dream for me, but yes, very hard work.:buffer:


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

James_R said:


> Menz IP PO85RD3.02 on a yellow Sonus SFX1 light cutting pad, followed by 106FA on a white polishing SFX2 pad.
> 
> Worked like a dream for me, but yes, very hard work.:buffer:


How can it work like a dream yet hard work? 
What is fact and others have pointed out, the ,marks are not going to be removed very easily


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## al_lotus (Nov 10, 2007)

On my metallic black GTi i used 3.02 on a LC light cut (orange) pad, then 85RD on a polishing pad (green) to refine. That removes 95% of swirls on mine, which i'm happy with. I also have a smaller white LC pad which works really well with the 85RD if there are any minor areas of marring i want to remove in one step.


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

Avanti said:


> How can it work like a dream yet hard work?
> What is fact and others have pointed out, the ,marks are not going to be removed very easily


It worked like a dream because I got exactly the results I was looking for - a crystal clear finish.

I'll re-phrase the hard work bit then - it took some time to achieve.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

James_R said:


> It worked like a dream because I got exactly the results I was looking for - a crystal clear finish.
> 
> I'll re-phrase the hard work bit then - it took some time to achieve.


Aye but what was the result you were looking for?
recognise this guy or the car?










Well that is the King in action on my car, hold on, it's the same model and colour that the OP is reffering to, so I'm not sure what you were after or the OP, however as pleased as I am with the finish on my own vehicle, I already know that the combination will still not leave a flawless finish


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

Avanti said:


> Aye but what was the result you were looking for?
> 
> Well that is the King in action on my car, hold on, it's the same model and colour that the OP is reffering to, so I'm not sure what you were after or the OP, however as pleased as I am with the finish on my own vehicle, I already know that the combination will still not leave a flawless finish


I was looking for a perfect swirl and scratch free, high gloss, slick finish. And thats what I got. The car was in good shape to begin with in all fairness.

Thanks for your input though.


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## needhampr (Feb 13, 2006)

James_R said:


> I was looking for a perfect swirl and scratch free, high gloss, slick finish. And thats what I got. The car was in good shape to begin with in all fairness.
> 
> Thanks for your input though.


The starting condition of the car is an important factor. Mine was almost 3 years old but only covered 6,000 miles from new and had only extremely light swirling but was still a tough job to correct even with the right pad polish combo. As expected though I guess 
Massive satisfaction from doing it :thumb:


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## seckles (Feb 5, 2007)

needhampr said:


> The starting condition of the car is an important factor. Mine was almost 3 years old but only covered 6,000 miles from new and had only extremely light swirling but was still a tough job to correct even with the right pad polish combo. As expected though I guess
> Massive satisfaction from doing it :thumb:


Well mine is 18 months old and done 17,000 miles. It was a lease car and the condition of the paint is terrible (tho I thought it wasn't that bad when I bought it). I'm really struggling with it to be honest, and that's with power gloss followed by 85RD. It's better than it was but is by no means perfect. Plus there seem to be a lot of relatively long scratches, which you can't feel and are only visible in direct light, that seem impossible to shift. I even tried wet sanding a couple! (in for a penny, in for a pound!). Here's some pics:

Before:









50/50









After. You can still see some swirls & scratches which I just can't get out. I guess I'll just have to live with these


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## needhampr (Feb 13, 2006)

That's much improved! 

For the deeper scratches I would be tempted to use either Autoglym SRP or for possibly a better finish on red, Clearkote Vanilla Moussing Hand Glaze. As you probably know, these are filler heavywhich will go quite some way to mask the deeper scratches. I don't think I would attack again with a heavy cut polish for the risk of removing too much clear.

You will probably find that with some filler polish and a couple of layers of wax on top they will be dramitcally reduced.


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## seckles (Feb 5, 2007)

needhampr said:


> That's much improved!
> 
> For the deeper scratches I would be tempted to use either Autoglym SRP or for possibly a better finish on red, Clearkote Vanilla Moussing Hand Glaze. As you probably know, these are filler heavywhich will go quite some way to mask the deeper scratches. I don't think I would attack again with a heavy cut polish for the risk of removing too much clear.
> 
> You will probably find that with some filler polish and a couple of layers of wax on top they will be dramitcally reduced.


Sounds like sensible advice! I will definitely do that from now on. I've got both SRP & Clearkote VM so will see how they improve things - but I've glazed, sealed & waxed now so I might leave it a bit until I do that. How about Clearkote red mouse? Do you think that will do a better job than VM on my red paint?

Cheers
Steve


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## agpatel (Jun 5, 2009)

I agree, I use CG EZ-Glaze and it had decent filling abilities for the deeper ones. I rather have a good amount of clear left for future polishing than a perfect finish now.


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## needhampr (Feb 13, 2006)

seckles said:


> Sounds like sensible advice! I will definitely do that from now on. I've got both SRP & Clearkote VM so will see how they improve things - but I've glazed, sealed & waxed now so I might leave it a bit until I do that. How about Clearkote red mouse? Do you think that will do a better job than VM on my red paint?
> 
> Cheers
> Steve


If you've got both (VMHG & RMG) then I would actually mix the two together. You should benefit from the best of both products then; filling of swirls and a nice wet look! :thumb:
Although SRP is perhaps slightly easier to use I actually think that VMHG leaves a nicer wetter & deeper finish where as SRP is less deep / more reflective finish. :thumb:


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## etang789 (Jun 30, 2009)

seckles said:


> Well mine is 18 months old and done 17,000 miles. It was a lease car and the condition of the paint is terrible (tho I thought it wasn't that bad when I bought it). I'm really struggling with it to be honest, and that's with power gloss followed by 85RD. It's better than it was but is by no means perfect. Plus there seem to be a lot of relatively long scratches, which you can't feel and are only visible in direct light, that seem impossible to shift. I even tried wet sanding a couple! (in for a penny, in for a pound!). Here's some pics:
> 
> Before:
> 
> ...


I have the same exact car and color MKV Golf GTI with Tornado Red!

May be not as bad as your Before picture, may be mine is about your 50/50...

What product and pads did you use at that stage? and what did you use for LSP?


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## pc boy (Mar 20, 2006)

Just doing my golf ATM (deep purple blue mk4)

I gave up with the DA!

Bought a kestrel rotary today and used 3.02 on a cut pad, then POFF on a polish pad then 58RD with a finishing pad.

Seems to be doing the trick


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## etang789 (Jun 30, 2009)

OK after doing some research thinking to get these to fix my Tornado Red GTI, if someone can review my list that would be great! since im new to all this!

Menzerna Super Intensive Polish PO 83
Mernzerna PO85RD
Collinite 915 or Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0 for LSP
Dual Action CCS 5.5 Inch Foam Pad Kit 
Meguiars G220 

Do I need backing plates?


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