# Bilberry Wheel Cleaner.



## Mikesphotaes (Jul 24, 2016)

I am completely new to this world and have certainly had my eyes opened on this site.

I read about the wheel cleaner and my local detailer Ultimate Shine in Stirling on here.

Popped down and the fella advised me to dilute the litre to five litres, even gave me an empty container for it.

Anyway have just used it and am totally amazed at how good it is.

I was considering having my wheels refurbished, although they were still not too bad, but think I have just saved myself a couple of hundred quid!


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

It is a decent wheel cleaner for maintenance washes but there are now newer wheel cleaner products that have the same performance at a higher dilution again or cheaper to buy. The market is constantly evolving.


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## Mikesphotaes (Jul 24, 2016)

No doubt my expectations will increase but, for the moment, still well-chuffed!


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## st1965 (Apr 21, 2016)

Yeah billburry is a good probuct...always got some tucked away in my detailing storage box !


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Give Auto Glanz Alkalloy a go, cracking stuff.


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## AIRTUNE UK (Dec 24, 2015)

The more instant the clean, the more likely the cleaner is to be aggressive. A tough call to find the right balance if you are in business washing wheels. Regular cleaning with warm soapy water is all you should need on your own wheels as regular use of anything mildly acidic will slowly but surely degrade the lacquer, dull the finish and lead to possible water penetration which will discolour - readily seen on diamond cut wheels when the lacquer has been damaged. My local car wash no longer use their wheel cleaner on my vehicle as I asked them not too because I could see the way the wheel hub brightened up after using their liquids was because it was acidic. It only needs them to mix one batch with the wrong dilution and the wheels could be looking very poorly very quickly! Take care.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

First wheel cleaner I ever purchased when I started looking after the cars was Autoglym wheel cleaner. Acidic as hell, stunk and left my skin burning. Truly horrible stuff and in all honesty although they have a place for poorly maintained wheels now and again, I wouldn't use another one again. 

A decent, non acidic wheel cleaner like Bilberry or Alkalloy for regular washes with a tar/glue remover followed by a fallout remover application every 4 months is a much better routine.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Brian1612 said:


> First wheel cleaner I ever purchased when I started looking after the cars was Autoglym wheel cleaner. Acidic as hell, stunk and left my skin burning. Truly horrible stuff and in all honesty although they have a place for poorly maintained wheels now and again, I wouldn't use another one again.
> 
> A decent, non acidic wheel cleaner like Bilberry or Alkalloy for regular washes with a tar/glue remover followed by a fallout remover application every 4 months is a much better routine.


Why oh why does everyone think non acidic wheel cleaners are so good and acidic cleaners so bad?

Non acidic wheel cleaners (Bilberry included) are often very alkaline. This can be just as damaging to wheels if used incorrectly.

The best option is to seal wheels and then a normal shampoo will be fine.

And don't be fooled by the marketing hype of "Acid Free", it does not mean it is safe.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Highly alkali is just as bad as acidic tbf

When advertised wheel cleaners as 'non acidic' it doesn't meant ph neutral or non caustic it means highly alkali and probably caustic lol

Tbf bilberry is ok but there's soooo much better out there

Get the wheels sealed and use a safer product imo


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

fatdazza said:


> Why oh why does everyone think non acidic wheel cleaners are so good and acidic cleaners so bad?
> 
> Non acidic wheel cleaners (Bilberry included) are often very alkaline. This can be just as damaging to wheels if used incorrectly.
> 
> ...


Lol typed same thing at same time


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Kimo said:


> Lol typed same thing at same time


Great minds ........


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Try smart wheels next and you see the difference, for heavier wheel grime malco brake off is good for the a deeper clean.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Nobody mentioned high alkaline. Alkalloy is almost ph neutral neat and wax safe at 1:5. Bilberry is Ph9 from memory neat so again, not high alkaline at all. They are certainly a lot safer to use neat and diluted compared to an acidic wheel cleaner and they don't stain plastics either.

When you say they are as bad as acidic wheel cleaners if used incorrectly that's just a stupid statement. Can apply that statement to anything from a wash mitt to fallout remover. Used as instructed they are a lot more forgiving and safer compared to an acidic wheel cleaner period.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Brian1612 said:


> Nobody mentioned high alkaline. Alkalloy is almost ph neutral neat and wax safe at 1:5. Bilberry is Ph9 from memory neat so again, not high alkaline at all. They are certainly a lot safer to use neat and diluted compared to an acidic wheel cleaner and they don't stain plastics either.
> 
> When you say they are as bad as acidic wheel cleaners if used incorrectly that's just a stupid statement. Can apply that statement to anything from a wash mitt to fallout remover. Used as instructed they are a lot more forgiving and safer compared to an acidic wheel cleaner period.


Bilberry neat is at least ph 12.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Trip tdi said:


> Try smart wheels next and you see the difference, for heavier wheel grime malco brake off is good for the a deeper clean.


Malco brake off is ridiculously harsh lol

It burns your skin :lol:


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

fatdazza said:


> Bilberry neat is at least ph 12.


It is actually ph 13 neat which I wasn't aware of!

I think possibly I am thinking of it when diluted then? 8-9 was definitely what I read but cannot find it now. Anyway, they are no where near as harsh as acidic wheel cleaners and much easier to use safely is my point. I do think acidic wheel cleaners have their uses though on seriously neglected wheels. A once a year use as they also remove fall out from memory.

I personally would rather use a much less harsh wheel cleaner and fall out remover. I wax my wheels every 2 months and maintain them with wheel shampoo/alkalloy at 1:20 but personally for me I find waxing the wheels not a worthwhile step and will be stopping it when it's used up.

Might give a sealant/coating a try.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Brian1612 said:


> It is actually ph 13 neat which I wasn't aware of!
> 
> I think possibly I am thinking of it when diluted then? 8-9 was definitely what I read but cannot find it now. Anyway, they are no where near as harsh as acidic wheel cleaners and much easier to use safely is my point. I do think acidic wheel cleaners have their uses though on seriously neglected wheels. A once a year use as they also remove fall out from memory.
> 
> ...


pH scale is a logarthimic scale.

Diluting by a factor of 10 (e.g. 9 parts water to 1 part bilberry) will only reduce by 1 so if neat is pH 13, diluted 10 to 1 will give you pH12.

Dilute by 100 to 1 will give you pH 11 and so on.

I echo everything you say about using the least harsh option, but too many people are fooled by the "acid free" claim, thinking they are using a safe option, when it is clear that they are not. :thumb:


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## 66Rob (Sep 25, 2007)

When i picked up my second hand Diamond cut alloys they were filthy and hadnt been washed for what looked like years.

This turned out to be a blessing in disguise as meant no harsh wheel cleaners had been used on them at all.

I used AG Purple Rain (2 hits mainly in the corners), AG Tar Remover and diluted Meguiars APC and they came up great after about 2hrs per wheel (wheel off).

Since then i have protected with Adam's Sealant and Angelwax and just wash with normal Megs Car shampoo at least once a week, taking extra car to 'go with the diamond cut grain. Staying okay so far despite a couple of small nicks (previous owner) that i have touched up with lacquer.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=377883


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## Matt_Nic (Apr 15, 2011)

Literally the most pointless wheel "cleaner" I have ever used.

Even at very low dilution it barely touched the weekly brake dust on my BMW (known to be heavy dusters)

Ended up throwing loads away so I could use the spray bottle for something else. 
I would advise anyone to save their money. You would no doubt get the same results if you diluted some car shampoo in a bottle and sprayed that on.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

fatdazza said:


> pH scale is a logarthimic scale.
> 
> Diluting by a factor of 10 (e.g. 9 parts water to 1 part bilberry) will only reduce by 1 so if neat is pH 13, diluted 10 to 1 will give you pH12.
> 
> ...


Can't disagree with any of that  I do personally prefer the non-acidic to acidic wheel cleaners but I am aware they aren't completely 'safe', they are much safer though. Years ago when I had my first car and worked in a garage I used to just wash it at the wash bay.

Foam, PW and a spray on wheel cleaner that stunk of rotten egg, obviously acidic, didn't have to agitate them it was that harsh. Did it every friday and it stripped the paint right off my alloys after a few months. At the time I had no idea, only now I realise what happened. I haven't came across any alkaline based wheel cleaner that would do the same.

In fact I have been using various different alkaline based wheel cleaners for 2 years now and never seen the paint stripping off either of my abarths wheels. Neither did it do that on my dad's two Audi's, my sisters two Audi's in that time and my others sisters Hyundai or Mazda so for me that says it all about their aggression compared to acid based products.

I agree they aren't totally safe but they are a hell of a lot safer and less harsh than acidic based stuff. I also agree a shampoo clean is the safest route also but sometimes depending on condition of the wheel you need more bite. Never been the case with any of the family cars but had two neighbours cars now where, after 3-4 hits of fallout remover and lots of agitation the burnt on iron was still on the alloys. I think in that situation an acidic wheel cleaner would have been ideal... 

@Matt Did you agitate it? For maintenance washes it works as well as any.


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## AIRTUNE UK (Dec 24, 2015)

fatdazza said:


> Why oh why does everyone think non acidic wheel cleaners are so good and acidic cleaners so bad?
> 
> Non acidic wheel cleaners (Bilberry included) are often very alkaline. This can be just as damaging to wheels if used incorrectly.
> 
> ...


Could not agree more! A good wash in warm soapy water and then a good wax. No special cleaners needed.:driver:


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## Mikesphotaes (Jul 24, 2016)

On another thread somebody was blethering on about my dirty barrels?

Now up here, barrels are used to age whisky or cut them in half for flower tubs

However, google to the rescue and off came my back wheels.

Now the back of these wheels have certainly never been cleaned in over three years, so I gave them a go with the diluted Bilberry.

Needed a lot of brushing and several attempts before they were reasonable.

I think the Bilberry was at its limit though

Mind you that Tardis stuff took off the old wheel balance sticky stuff not too bad.

Think I will use that alkalloy next for the heavy duty stuff .


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## Mike_Wizz (Aug 5, 2013)

Mikesphotaes said:


> On another thread somebody was blethering on about my dirty barrels?
> 
> Now up here, barrels are used to age whisky or cut them in half for flower tubs
> 
> ...


If you've got your hands on tardis try smart wheels for bad alloys you can dilute it up as you like and it's reasonably effective. It's also cheap!!!

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Mikesphotaes said:


> On another thread somebody was blethering on about my dirty barrels?
> 
> Now up here, barrels are used to age whisky or cut them in half for flower tubs
> 
> ...


Love Alkalloy myself but it isn't a proper strong wheel cleaner. For barrels that's where a fall out remover or acidic wheel cleaner comes into its own.


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