# Hydrochloric Acid based wheel cleaners



## bonnietiler

Now, I'm new here so no shooting me down like a duck at the funfair if you've heard this before...perhaps it's considered a no-no to use Wonder wheels and the like for cleaning alloys?
But sometimes...I clean alot of ally parts on old british motorcycles...the power of a "Wonder wheels" like substance is needed...
Now then, if you find yourself looking at the back of a Wonder Wheels bottle it should say 16% Hydrochloric acid...and it isn't cheap.
If you go to your nearest Hardware store they will sell you for £2.75 or so, a bottle of Spirit of Salts...if you find yourself looking at the back of said bottle of Spirit of Salts, you will find the contents are listed as 30% hydrochloric acid..
So, judicious use of some water and you have an acid wheel/engine/carburettor cleaner at whatever concentrate you think fit!
I've been using it for a while now...I'm expecting the burns to heal in good time!
Bonnietiler


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## Bratwurst

Sometimes, there's a need for Wonder Wheels IMO (or Meg Brightwheels, or other acid-based cleaners etc) They certainly shouldn't be used on damaged wheels/lacquer, but on healthy (but severely brake-dusted) wheels, sometimes it's all that's going to sort them. Not too sure about home chemistry...


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## TOGWT

Hydrofluoric acid - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid


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## Avanti

bonnietiler said:


> Now, I'm new here so no shooting me down like a duck at the funfair if you've heard this before...*perhaps it's considered a no-no to use Wonder wheels and the like for cleaning alloys?*
> But sometimes...I clean alot of ally parts on old british motorcycles..*.the power of a "Wonder wheels" like substance is needed...*
> Now then, if you find yourself looking at the back of a* Wonder Wheels bottle it should say 16% Hydrochloric acid...and it isn't cheap.*
> If you go to your nearest Hardware store they will sell you for £2.75 or so, a bottle of *Spirit of Salts...if you find yourself looking at the back of said bottle of Spirit of Salts, you will find the contents are listed as 30% hydrochloric acid..*
> So, judicious use of some water and you have an acid wheel/engine/carburettor cleaner at whatever concentrate you think fit!
> I've been using it for a while now...I'm expecting the burns to heal in good time!
> Bonnietiler


Thing is those with common sense won't be using 'harsh' wheel cleaners for regular wheel cleaning regimes and to be honest it should not be required, if the wheels are getting caked up withing around 20 miles, then it is a good sign that the pads are near requiring replacement. Wonder wheels is probably about fair priced, it is not simply a bottle of acid, there are other bits of shampoo and chemicals in there as is wheel cleaner another to consider is Wizz stainless steel cleaner.


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## bigmc

bonnietiler said:


> Now then, if you find yourself looking at the back of a Wonder Wheels bottle it should say 16% Hydrochloric acid...and it isn't cheap.
> If you go to your nearest Hardware store they will sell you for £2.75 or so, a bottle of Spirit of Salts...if you find yourself looking at the back of said bottle of Spirit of Salts, you will find the contents are listed as 30% hydrochloric acid..
> So, judicious use of some water and you have an acid wheel/engine/carburettor cleaner at whatever concentrate you think fit!
> I've been using it for a while now...I'm expecting the burns to heal in good time!
> Bonnietiler


Not wanting to shoot you down but I work with HCl everyday and anything over 7-9% will go through metal in a pretty short time tbh. We use 36% in work which is the strongest you can get without boiling the excess water off under high pressure but this makes it really aggressive. If you want to make a home-brew cleaner try and get some NaOH flakes and mix it with di water 1:3.


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## bonnietiler

That may well be true but Wonder wheels is actually a solution of 16% HCL...probably why it "cleans" so well. This would be why Wonder Wheels specify use on laquered wheels only.
My message wasn't meant as a panacea or a cure-all, just the point that if you defianately required a HCL based cleaner, then Spirit of Salts is a cheap and easy method of getting same. It brings Amal Carbs up a treat..not as well as Pickling Paste mind..but using that product we do have to a little more careful...Do you remember the blood of the Alien in the Ridley Scott movie of the same name, the one that ate through all the decks of the "Nostromo"..well, I think it was comprised of Pickling Paste..very dodgy stuff. But really cleans Stainless beautifully though,,,
I'm sorry, I realise that i'm beginning to sound like some wierd back street chemist here!
Battery acid is a brilliant rust remover prior to chroming....
Nurse the screens He's yattering about acids again!!!
Bonnietiler


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## bigmc

Yeah the alien blood has nothing on the conc stuff we use in work, the only metals it won't dissolve are Hastelloy C276 and grade 7 Ti.


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## Mr Yellow

bigmc said:


> Not wanting to shoot you down but I work with HCl everyday and anything over 7-9% will go through metal in a pretty short time tbh. We use 36% in work which is the strongest you can get without boiling the excess water off under high pressure but this makes it really aggressive. If you want to make a home-brew cleaner try and get some NaOH flakes and mix it with di water 1:3.


Not to shoot you down but I am a formulator and chemical safety expert... HCl is not even classified as an irritant unless present at greater than 10% - european legislation (see the CLP table 3.2). It is not hugely corrosive at these concentrations. The major concern about HCl cleaners like this is that they will stain 'stainless' steel. On the other hand, you have recommended someone use sodium hydroxide at a concentration which is *5 times* the limit required to make it corrosive enough to have the hazard phrase 'causes _severe_ burns'. What you have basically recommended is oven cleaner.

Contrary to what some have said, you do NOT need strongly acidic product to effectively clean alloys. Not do you need oven cleaner! On the other hand, acid based cleaners do work and they ARE the cheapest way of doing it!


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## details

Eg autosmart Triple X.


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## SystemClenz

details said:


> Eg autosmart Triple X.


I use AG treble X and it's the cheapest way to clean really stubborn wheels, still requires a brush and can be diluted accordingly


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## Avanti

MattWSM said:


> I use *AG treble X *and it's the cheapest way to clean really stubborn wheels, still requires a brush and can be diluted accordingly


I know AG do clean wheels but not heard of 3x, 
swarfega alloy cleaner is a blend of citric and phosphoric acid plus the soaps, £6 for 2 litres and dilutable :thumb:


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## MattDuffy88

I work with Hydrochloric regularly at work (up to 35-38% conc iirc) and it is nasty stuff, the 5n hydrochloric we use is also nasty stuff - when using it with the microscopes you can see the reaction with the slide retainers if you get a bit over-zealous with it.

As X12YHP says, it's only considered an irritant in concentrations between 10-25%, any higher it is classified as corrosive.


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## grant_evans

he means as


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## Mr Yellow

MattDuffy88 said:


> I work with Hydrochloric regularly at work (up to 35-38% conc iirc) and it is nasty stuff, the 5n hydrochloric we use is also nasty stuff - when using it with the microscopes you can see the reaction with the slide retainers if you get a bit over-zealous with it.
> 
> As X12YHP says, it's only considered an irritant in concentrations between 10-25%, any higher it is classified as corrosive.


My point was that many hydrochloric products are NOT particularly dangerous. Many are below 10% and thus not even considered irritant. I would never supply a corrosive product to a non-professional user. If you think about it, an aqueous acid actually has trouble doing damage because the skin is a barrier. It is not easy for it to do damage. However, if you go to something like NaOH, well... that is another matter. It reacts with the oils in your skin and immediately starts to break down the flesh. The resistance of the skin is immediately destroyed because the soap formed in the reaction with the oils gives a bridge.

From an industrial perspective, a bit of strong acid on you and you will walk rapidly to the tap and wash it off. Strong caustic will have you running and yelling.

In any case, the make up of alloys means that acid cleaners are far from ideal - they will slowly destroy it. HCl and HF (for goodness sakes don't use the latter if you aren't a professional) are strong and cheap. If someone wants an acid cleaner, I would recommend a phosphoric acid product. It is safer to use and cuts down on the nasty odour.


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## bigmc

I'd like to see anyone walk to a tap after a 36% hcl splash.


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## Mr Yellow

bigmc said:


> I'd like to see anyone walk to a tap after a 36% hcl splash.


I can only start to imagine what you would be doing if you got some 50% hydroxide onto you P

Really though, I am the health & safety guy here. I am the one who tells people they cannot do things because they are 'dangerous'! I am prone to overstating the risks... but HCl is one of those things that scares people much more than is necessary.


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## bonnietiler

If you go on Amazon right now, you can buy Spirits of Salt (30%) from them on next day Royal Mail delivery £3.44..Only £2.29 from my local hardware store.
I have splashed this on my mitts when i've been doing my Dr Frankenstein impression..and at first, for maybe 10 secs you aren't certain that you've done it...then for 10 seconds a tingly burning sensation..but not agony..then... well by then I've had my hands into the Health and Safety eec kite-marked Thomas the Tank Engine bucket of water that I take with me for just such an occasion.
bonnietiler


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## MattDuffy88

x12yhp said:


> I can only start to imagine what you would be doing if you got some 50% hydroxide onto you P
> 
> Really though, I am the health & safety guy here. I am the one who tells people they cannot do things because they are 'dangerous'! I am prone to overstating the risks... *but HCl is one of those things that scares people much more than is necessary.*


I have done the rapid walk to the sink you speak of but I'd still rather avoid getting any of it on me though, especially with the condition my hands are in 

We don't use NaOh, but we do use NaClO for dissolving animal proteins and hair fibres.


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## Mr Yellow

MattDuffy88 said:


> We don't use NaOh, but we do use NaClO for dissolving animal proteins and hair fibres.


NaOCl is common bleach. Strangely enough, much of the hazard it present is because of the NaOH left over from the manufacturing process.


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## Audriulis

I heard that Oxalic acidic cleaners are safe on aliuminium, but not so good for stainless steal but I might be wrong


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## Mr Yellow

Oxalic is the active in 'barkeepers friend'. As far as I know, it is perfectly safe on stainless with barkeepers friend suggesting it as one use. Aluminium... very few acid based products are going to be 'safe' - the trick is to minimise contact time.


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