# Paragon Microfibre - advice on my current basket



## SteveW (Feb 21, 2006)

Excuse the long post, but I've spent the last couple of days reading on here about microfibres - it's a good job I'm working from home at the mo, otherwise I'd be in trouble :lol:

I'm slowly getting back into cleaning the car properly after a few years of not really bothering and I'm at the point now I think where I want to replace my microfibres, or at least relegate my "cheap" generic ones to be used for general purpose and engine bay jobs.

There are so many to choose from I couldn't believe it, and certainly now understand that the cheaper B&M type microfibres clearly aren't the best, especially to be using on the paintwork.

I have a couple of the Autoglym Hi-Tech polishing cloths, the red ones that come with their kits, but was thinking of buying the following to add to it:-










I was thinking the 360gsm seamless could be used for applying Quick Detailer (which I do after each wash as it's a black car), then use the 450gsm to buff any remaining QD off.

The 300gsm for removing polish and/or wax, and for the interior etc?

Any thoughts? I've come to the conclusion I am totally clueless and the more I read the more confused and indecisive I am becoming! :lol:


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2020)

I have about 50 of the premium 300 GSM cloths and frankly they will do everything you are asking them to do. I'd just buy 20 of those and call it a day. They are super soft, and 2 sided, one being a longer pile than the other. Great for just about anything you can throw at them, and superb value.

I'm not really a fan of the perl knit, and would defo take more of the premiums instead.

I've not tried the 450 GSM, but 3 doesn't sound like enough too any cloth to me


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## RS3 (Mar 5, 2018)

I'd agree with Danny. The 300's will do all those jobs you've listed happily. 450GSM is generally too much for most jobs except drying. 300 is generally a sweet spot for wax / polish removal and will be good for QD as well. Get 2 or 3 different colours perhaps for the different jobs you do.


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

Those AH Red are great for wax removal, anything 70/30 80/20 mix
350-550gsm..

The AutoSmart pack are quality..

Anything Korean Klin, inferior quality will not last washing in the longer term, so as you say the right cloth for the right process.

I still wash all mine by hand soak in Stardrops then use Woolite, even on my 1800gsm drying towel from Uber..

Have fun..

John Tht.


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## SteveW (Feb 21, 2006)

The only reason I was choosing the 450gsm was that I'd read that it may be better for buffing (especially a QD after applying with a 300 or 350) than the lower 300/350s, whereas the lower were better for removing wax and polish.

I'm happy to stick with 300gsm if they'll do the job, makes my life easier and then I can just buy them but in different colours 


As for the Autosmart ones - I hadn't even looked at them before now, so now I have even more choice!!! :lol:

One thing I haven't been doing with my cloths when washing is doing an extra rinse in the machine, so I'll be doing that from now on too with the new ones.


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## RS3 (Mar 5, 2018)

SteveW said:


> The only reason I was choosing the 450gsm was that I'd read that it may be better for buffing (especially a QD after applying with a 300 or 350) than the lower 300/350s, whereas the lower were better for removing wax and polish.
> 
> I'm happy to stick with 300gsm if they'll do the job, makes my life easier and then I can just buy them but in different colours
> 
> ...


Buffing will be fine with the 300 - I wouldn't agree that a higher GSM makes it better. High GSM = more absorption. It may feel more safe but as someone else said, the Paragon 300 towels are a 70/30 blend of Polyester and Polyamide which is exactly where you need to be to reduce the chance of swirls.

I tend to prefer a longer knap for buffing than the 300 so I often use Rag company Eagle Edgeless 350's https://www.ragmasteruk.co.uk/16-x-16-eagle-edgeless-350-ultra-plush-microfiber-towel/ but they are very expensive although you can get discounts for large qty's from America - https://www.theragcompany.com/eagle-edgeless-350-16-x-16-ultra-plush-microfiber-towel/.


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## SteveW (Feb 21, 2006)

RS3 said:


> Buffing will be fine with the 300 - I wouldn't agree that a higher GSM makes it better. High GSM = more absorption. It may feel more safe but as someone else said, the Paragon 300 towels are a 70/30 blend of Polyester and Polyamide which is exactly where you need to be to reduce the chance of swirls.
> 
> I tend to prefer a longer knap for buffing than the 300 so I often use Rag company Eagle Edgeless 350's https://www.ragmasteruk.co.uk/16-x-16-eagle-edgeless-350-ultra-plush-microfiber-towel/ but they are very expensive although you can get discounts for large qty's from America - https://www.theragcompany.com/eagle-edgeless-350-16-x-16-ultra-plush-microfiber-towel/.


Ah, maybe I'm confusing the higher GSM with the plushness!

Jeez, never realised you needed so much knowledge in textiles :lol:

Why do you prefer the longer knap then, because it's safer? Or another reason?


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## RS3 (Mar 5, 2018)

SteveW said:


> Ah, maybe I'm confusing the higher GSM with the plushness!
> 
> Jeez, never realised you needed so much knowledge in textiles :lol:
> 
> Why do you prefer the longer knap then, because it's safer? Or another reason?


Longer knapp just makes the job a bit quicker but the downside is you lose some of the "feel" - i.e. you can't feel when the surface is getting slicker from the buffing as well as with a shorter knapp.

Swings and roundabouts really.

The Paragons are very high quality towels. Id go for 300's 1st and see how you get on.


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## SteveW (Feb 21, 2006)

OK, so more a personal preference than any specific reason for choosing the longer knapp? 

Well I went with the advice and ordered 20 of the 300gsm for now, so will see how I get on with them.

Thanks all for the advice, much appreciated


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## BsrGT (May 20, 2019)

Gee thanks for this, without this I wouldn't find out that Paragon is actually quite branched out globally and that they have a warehouse in central Europe too. Ordered some of the premium towels, can't really go wrong with 10 cloths for 10ish€.


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2020)

Oh yeah... should have mentioned this earlier, with paragon, make sure you specify "no tags" when you check out or they will come with them and they are impossible to rip off without destroying the hem. It's unfortunate the come by default. Hopefully you can catch your order before they ship if you did not specify.

I hope one day the consider offering an edgeless version. 

I agree with RS3 on the eagle edgeless 350s they are my other go to cloth when I feel a plush cloth is needed (in my case when I do a little clean up with some ECH2O waterless). Frankly the paragons do everything I need, but its nice to have a super plush, fluffy cloth if you have to make contact with your paint on some occasions. Having also had the eagle 500s, I'd say the 350 is all you actually need. In2detailing also sells some nice alternatives for cheaper.


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## SteveW (Feb 21, 2006)

DannyRS3 said:


> Oh yeah... should have mentioned this earlier, with paragon, make sure you specify "no tags" when you check out or they will come with them and they are impossible to rip off without destroying the hem. It's unfortunate the come by default. Hopefully you can catch your order before they ship if you did not specify.
> 
> I hope one day the consider offering an edgeless version.
> 
> I agree with RS3 on the eagle edgeless 350s they are my other go to cloth when I feel a plush cloth is needed (in my case when I do a little clean up with some ECH2O waterless). Frankly the paragons do everything I need, but its nice to have a super plush, fluffy cloth if you have to make contact with your paint on some occasions. Having also had the eagle 500s, I'd say the 350 is all you actually need. In2detailing also sells some nice alternatives for cheaper.


Ah dammit, didn't even realise it was an option :lol:

I've dropped them an email asking if I can change to "no tags" if they haven't already packed my order, so will see how that goes - but will remember that for future orders (as I'm sure I'll end up ordering more so I can colour code properly :lol


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## St Evelyn (Mar 15, 2019)

Thanks for the 'No tags' tip Danny - I've had a basket of goodies sat there for a week and just pressed the go button so that I don't forget to add the comment in to the order. :thumb:


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## SteveW (Feb 21, 2006)

Well, I sent the email, and got an almost instant reply:-



> Hi Steve
> 
> Its your lucky day
> 
> ...


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## AndyQash (Jul 28, 2019)

Looks like another company with great customer service


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## SteveW (Feb 21, 2006)

AndyQash said:


> Looks like another company with great customer service


Yeah that's why I thought I'd post it up.

If I'm as happy with the cloths as I'm expecting to be after the comments in the thread, based on that and this email reply I don't think I'll look anywhere else whenever I want something that Paragon could supply me with


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## nicks16v (Jan 7, 2009)

Do you put the no tags in the comments box as I didnt see an option for it.


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## SteveW (Feb 21, 2006)

nicks16v said:


> Do you put the no tags in the comments box as I didnt see an option for it.


I assume that's where you'd put it yes. I'm guessing that's what the chap that emailed me meant by the "notes" section.


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2020)

Ah glad you caught it before they shipped @stevew ! I can't fault paragons customer service. Great company, great product and great prices


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## St Evelyn (Mar 15, 2019)

Yes, that's the box that I used - couldn't see anywhere else to put it. Will see whether it worked (I'm sure that it will have done though) when the order turns up.


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## beatty599 (Sep 18, 2016)

I've had no issues in the past when i requested no tags. I usually go for their 300 or 360 gsm and I've found they're perfect and that you'll find they are the exact same as many of the premium ones available in the UK.


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2020)

beatty599 said:


> ... you'll find they are the exact same as many of the premium ones available in the UK.


This is a very good point actually. Many if not most of the big detailing supplier websites in the UK are selling the paragon premium cloths with a massive markup with their own name on them. Apparently the Gtechniq MF1 (old version with a seam) was made by them as well. Great to cut out the middleman and receive such a premium product.


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## SteveW (Feb 21, 2006)

DannyRS3 said:


> This is a very good point actually. Many if not most of the big detailing supplier websites in the UK are selling the paragon premium cloths with a massive markup with their own name on them. Apparently the Gtechniq MF1 (old version with a seam) was made by them as well. Great to cut out the middleman and receive such a premium product.


I was so close to buying the Gtechniq MF1 ten pack - until I read a thread on here stating the paragon cloths were exactly the same!

Looking forward to trying out my tag-less cloths when they arrive now


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## BadgerJCW (Dec 20, 2013)

SteveW said:


> I was so close to buying the Gtechniq MF1 ten pack - until I read a thread on here stating the paragon cloths were exactly the same!
> 
> Looking forward to trying out my tag-less cloths when they arrive now


The Gtechniq MF1's changed to an edgeless style about a year ago. Decent cloths at a fairly decent price for a pack of 10 👍


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## SteveW (Feb 21, 2006)

BadgerJCW said:


> The Gtechniq MF1's changed to an edgeless style about a year ago. Decent cloths at a fairly decent price for a pack of 10 👍


Yeah, when I was looking around at everything microfibre earlier in the week I realised there were two versions - the newer ones being edgeless and tagless, with the logo embossed in the cloth instead.

The Pack of ten I was considering trying though were the older ones, like the Paragon ones 

I've looked at so many different cloths and websites in the last week! :lol:


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## St Evelyn (Mar 15, 2019)

The order I placed with Paragon yesterday afternoon is out for delivery today - can't want for any quicker service than that.


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## SteveW (Feb 21, 2006)

Mine arrived this morning. Can definitely feel the quality compared to "cheap" ones that's for sure!










Just hope the rain holds off a bit at the weekend so I can try them


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## beatty599 (Sep 18, 2016)

Also probably important to note, the majority of my clothes are from Paragon or Gtechniq, they all have been throw at least 50 washes, all reused after previous ceramic coatings. 

I recently added a drop of fabric softener to them and found it has brought the cloths back to life and work much better for polish and coating removal from paintwork. 

My personal favourites are the 300gsm and 450 gsm.


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## SteveW (Feb 21, 2006)

beatty599 said:


> Also probably important to note, the majority of my clothes are from Paragon or Gtechniq, they all have been throw at least 50 washes, all reused after previous ceramic coatings.
> 
> I recently added a drop of fabric softener to them and found it has brought the cloths back to life and work much better for polish and coating removal from paintwork.
> 
> My personal favourites are the 300gsm and 450 gsm.


See now you're confusing me as all I have read is NEVER USE FABRIC SOFTENER :lol:


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2020)

SteveW said:


> See now you're confusing me as all I have read is NEVER USE FABRIC SOFTENER :lol:


DO NOT use fabric softener. It might make them feel more plush but it's coking up the fibres, reduced absorbency and can cause product smearing. Also, never re-use cloths after a ceramic coating. This is just really bad advice.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

A prime example of the dangers from people posting without knowledge :thumb:


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## SteveW (Feb 21, 2006)

DannyRS3 said:


> DO NOT use fabric softener. It might make them feel more plush but it's coking up the fibres, reduced absorbency and can cause product smearing. Also, never re-use cloths after a ceramic coating. This is just really bad advice.


I'm unlikely to be using ceramic coating for a while anyway to be honest, so that's one less thing to worry about for now 

I'm still using SRP and EGP at the mo (it's becoming more evident the more I read on here that I'm so far behind I think in the products I use), although I might give the AG UHD wax a try at some point maybe.

Although I have a garage, it's full up with bits and bobs and one motorbike (hopefully soon to be two in the not too distant future!) so I have to work on the car on the driveway - so I'm guessing not the best climate to be applying a ceramic wax?


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## nicks16v (Jan 7, 2009)

I wish I hadnt seen this post. I'm a sucker for a new Microfibre cloth. what are your opinions on all of these if anyone has tried them ?

* Microfibre Polish Applicator With Finger Pocket Terry or Suede

* Premium Microfibre Cloth 300gsm - Packs of 10
Pack of 10 cloths
40 x 40 cm · Red · £8.00 per item

* Fishscale Glass Cloth 300gsm
40 x 40 cm · Blue · £0.83 per item

* Premium Glass/Window Cloth 300gsm
40 x 40 cm · Green · £0.80 per item

* Microfibre Drying Towel / Terry Cloth	
Premium Terry Cloths/Drying Towels 450gsm
40 x 40 cm · £1.75 per item

* Waffle Cloth
80 x 60 cm · £2.45 per item

* Microfibre diamond weave cloth	
Microfibre Diamond Weave Drying Towel
60 x 60 cm · Yellow · £4.95 per item

* Waffle Cloth
40 x 40 cm · £0.85 per item


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## beatty599 (Sep 18, 2016)

DannyRS3 said:


> DO NOT use fabric softener. It might make them feel more plush but it's coking up the fibres, reduced absorbency and can cause product smearing. Also, never re-use cloths after a ceramic coating. This is just really bad advice.


I'm not saying use fabric softener every wash, just once in a blue moon. I'm familiar with the fact everyone says not to etc, but in my case it has genuinely improved the microfibres for product removal.

Also I've had zero issues with reusing cloths that have had ceramic coating on them. What's your concern with reusing them? Polishes are abrasive yet we reuse microfibres that have touched them, dirty wash mitts etc etc not trying to get at you, just want to hear your genuine feedback. It's a personal thing on risk management realistically.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Feel free to use fabric softener if *you *think it improves your mfs.

However it is a fact that softener sticks the microfibres together and makes them less effective. So the advice to everyone new to the game is don't use fabric softener. Indeed use vinegar instead to ensure all soap residues are removed.


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## SuperchargedLlama (Apr 25, 2008)

White vinegar that is, not malt. It has a very similar effect to softener in terms of softening the fibres, but it doesn't clog them up.

Also very good if you've got sensitive skin and are allergic to softeners.


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## Ctreanor13 (May 1, 2019)

SteveW said:


> I'm unlikely to be using ceramic coating for a while anyway to be honest, so that's one less thing to worry about for now
> 
> I'm still using SRP and EGP at the mo (it's becoming more evident the more I read on here that I'm so far behind I think in the products I use), although I might give the AG UHD wax a try at some point maybe.
> 
> Although I have a garage, it's full up with bits and bobs and one motorbike (hopefully soon to be two in the not too distant future!) so I have to work on the car on the driveway - so I'm guessing not the best climate to be applying a ceramic wax?


The only 'polish' I've used so far is SRP and the results were great. EGP sits very well on it too. I think alot on here think that SRP is a great product. From what I've learned from being on here is that there's no such thing as the best product. If it works well for you and you're happy with the results then that's all that matters


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2020)

SteveW said:


> Although I have a garage, it's full up with bits and bobs and one motorbike (hopefully soon to be two in the not too distant future!) so I have to work on the car on the driveway - so I'm guessing not the best climate to be applying a ceramic wax?


I've ceramic coated 6 cars now outside. Its difficult to get enough fair weather, but if you can polish and coat and give ourself 48 hours without rain for curing it can certainly be done, no problem. Ceramic isn't for everyone, but man I'm sold on it


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2020)

beatty599 said:


> I'm not saying use fabric softener every wash, just once in a blue moon. I'm familiar with the fact everyone says not to etc, but in my case it has genuinely improved the microfibres for product removal.
> 
> Also I've had zero issues with reusing cloths that have had ceramic coating on them. What's your concern with reusing them? Polishes are abrasive yet we reuse microfibres that have touched them, dirty wash mitts etc etc not trying to get at you, just want to hear your genuine feedback. It's a personal thing on risk management realistically.


Well mate you do as you like, and no one will chide you for that, but its very bad advice to be giving others could ruin their cloths and scratch up their cars. Fabric softener ruins MF cloths, and dried ceramic is hard as glass and will scratch paint. Take any applicator that been used to apply it and come back in 48 hours and it'll be rigid. Removal cloths have that is them as well, and should go no where near paint again.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

DannyRS3 said:


> Well mate you do as you like, and no one will chide you for that, but its very bad advice to be giving others could ruin their cloths and scratch up their cars. Fabric softener ruins MF cloths, and dried ceramic is hard as glass and will scratch paint. Take any applicator that been used to apply it and come back in 48 hours and it'll be rigid. Removal cloths have that is them as well, and should go no where near paint again.


Even using a lite ceramic product like Gyeon Can Coat results in the applicators & cloths being unsafe on paintwork even after washing them. You can see & feel the difference compared to a fresh cloth, the fibres end up rough & matted feeling due to the hardened ceramic material. I would strongly advise against reusing on paint.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## SuperchargedLlama (Apr 25, 2008)

I'm musing here with methods that may save the cloths after ceramic (with no experience of applying it myself).

From what I can understand, the biggest issue is that the cloths end up with lots of ceramic product in the fibres, which, once set, can effectively act the same as grit?

Can we stop that setting from occuring? After a panel has been wiped over could you Chuck the towel in a bucket of hot water and stop the setting? Feels like that might be too late still?

Would a boil wash in the machine manage to free the residue from the towel? Or at least potentially?


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

These "ceramics" are solvent based, so once the solvent flashes off you are left with the Sio2 / siloxanes. Water will not be of any help.

You will be ok with water based products such as C2, but I would not class these as "ceramics".


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2020)

Surfex HD will remove ceramic coat at 10% concentration, so soaking and really agitating the cloths well *might* get the cermaic out of it, but it's still not really worth letting the cloth anywhere near paint with what is rock hard crystallised glass in its fibres is it?


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## SuperchargedLlama (Apr 25, 2008)

Thank you for answering my questions.


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