# Help - mild panic!!



## IDreamofGloss (Mar 29, 2012)

Make that suicidal panic!!! Oh Gawd - donut newbie machine polishing for the first time and think I've screwed it up!!

I just bought a beautiful metallic black Jag XF, had the bright idea of making it resemble a 4 wheeled mirror and have spent today (outside) polishing with the following:

DAS6 -PRO, Lake country blue hydrotech pad + menzerna PF2500 followed by Crimson finsh pad & SF4000.

Some panels which didn't have much swirls etc I just used LC HT crimson pad with FF3000.

Everything looked wonderful and gleaming, I got rid of the scratches and then briefly the sun came out and OMG - there were some hologrames and bad marring (like someones smeared over the paint with oil) and I am now panicking.

My daughters run off with the camera so cant take any pictures but the suns gone back in anyway so would be difficult.

How can I see the extent of dameg now when its forecast rain and cloud for the next week? I don't have a garage to look at it in - maybe a well-lit petrol station....jeez I'm grasping at straws!

Was earlier impressing my neighbour with my prowess and dedication - oh the shame!!! Add in the smirks at work when I roll in next week with a car I chose to messwith!!!

Can someone reassure me that it will be able to be corrected (even if it needs a pro) before I go find some rope pleeeeeese?

Maybe I let the polish dry out too much and maybe was over conscious of breaking it down?

Why oh why did I think I could do it?????


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## Rizzo (Jan 22, 2009)

From what i believe its where the compounds havent been broken down enough before wiping away.

Easily savable, just work the compounds in more.

I could be wrong however lol


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## bero1306 (Jan 24, 2011)

Spend longer working the polish until it has virtually gone. Go again with the least cut you have. DONE. :thumb:


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## IDreamofGloss (Mar 29, 2012)

Rizzo said:


> I could be wrong however lol


That filled me with confidence! hahahaha

OK, so should i just do a small area until it goes clear? How will I know if it's getting too dry and what are the symptoms/consequences?

I guess I thought I was breaking them down and it was going 'clearer'!


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## IDreamofGloss (Mar 29, 2012)

Hmmmm - so how long should it take roughly to break down the polish for say an 18" square area?

If I try a small area can I make it worse by just doing it until its obvious it's clear...or I fall asleep at the wheel! 

sorry for all the questions.


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## bero1306 (Jan 24, 2011)

You should be doing about 2ft x 2ft and working it. Spritz your pad if you feel it drying to fast.


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## IDreamofGloss (Mar 29, 2012)

Just checked with the garage spotlight on and taken some pictures of the bonnet with my phone which illustrates the nightmare!

I did put some shine and seal on the bonnet earlier but even removing this with IPA the surface seems all smeary in this spotlight.

There are still swirls left (can see them in the spotlight) but the whole panel looks very marred and hologrammed.

Does this still look like the polish wasnt broken down?

If anybody's willing to give it a more qualified look I'd really like an experts opinion and would jump at the opportunity to bring it round (I live nr Camberley, Surrey/Berks) and am so worried, any reasonable distance would be Ok with me.


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## quattrogmbh (May 15, 2007)

does the finish smear if you gently wipe your finger over it? If so, then the polishing oils havent been completely removed. You could try wiping over with IPA or a quick detailer.

If they dont smear then the polish hasnt been worked enough. as previous comments, you'll need to do further passes with the finishing polish.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Oh dear looks like a right shambles.

I keep saying all the time a DA does not have enough power to drive foam pads for compounding and polishing; the Megs DA MF pads are much thinner to allow the machine to do it's job.

You do need some heat in the panel to really break up the polish and unlike a rotary a DA with foam pads just does not cut the mustard.

looks like too much polish firstly.

Holograms in black are a common day to day issue, but black needs a full 3 stage polish. Compounding, polishing and finishing.

I am more than happy for you to give me a buzz tomorrow afternoon to help you out mate, I don't bite.


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## Andrew125 (Apr 2, 2012)

Mirror Finish Details said:


> Oh dear looks like a right shambles.
> 
> I keep saying all the time a DA does not have enough power to drive foam pads for compounding and polishing; the Megs DA MF pads are much thinner to allow the machine to do it's job.
> 
> ...


That's a really nice gesture..very helpful.

To the OP I am sure you will get this sorted out..Panic not.


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

Hmm that doesn't look right at all, but I'd say its more residue that needs removing looking at those pictures.

A DA does have enough power to work Menzerna polishes. Using a DA it's very difficult to get holgogramming like with a rotary. Menzerna polish use such a fine tough abrasive even if you used PF2500 on a blue pad you can sufficently break it down to leave no marring.

Heres what I would do. 

Try breaking down the work into smaller areas. Start by doing a 2ft sq area of a panel, using 4 pea sized amounts of polish on the pad and then with a firm pressure on speed 4-5 move aboout 2 inches a second slowly overlapping. You need to spend about 5 minutes on that area.

Then with a brand new (or just washed) microfiber buff the residue off. There shouldn't be too much to remove though and you should be left with a pin sharp finish.

Tim


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

CleanYourCar said:


> Hmm that doesn't look right at all, but I'd say its more residue that needs removing looking at those pictures.
> 
> A DA does have enough power to work Menzerna polishes. Using a DA it's very difficult to get holgogramming like with a rotary. Menzerna polish use such a fine tough abrasive even if you used PF2500 on a blue pad you can sufficently break it down to leave no marring.
> 
> ...


Yes I agree Tim but with Scholl S3 Gold on a rotary with a spider pad you can get the same set in about 90 seconds on a rotary even correcting hard German clear.

I still think a DA even thought they are great machines and I use them all the time do no have enough grunt for correction unless the MF pads are used. The foam pads slow them down due to the friction and half the time the pads are not spinning.

For a Jag on a DA I would use the DA, Megs MF pad with Scholl S3 Gold to give it a good cut, then the same pad cleaned and Scholl Polish before refining with the DA or Rotary with a blue 3M pad and S40 or Ultrafina.

At least 3 days work as well.


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## Johnnyopolis (Oct 25, 2005)

IdreamofGloss - Where you based?

I can see Mirror Finish has offered to help you oooop North but if your further down south and need a hand pop over, bring some biscuits (jaffa cakes are good) and I will help you sort it out and give you some advice too 

Can you feel the DW love right there 

ATB

John


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## Will_G (Jan 23, 2012)

To me rather than appearing as a condescending t*** someone should offer advice after all isn't this what we're here for.

To me the combination of pads and polish are good enough but if you've tried to go round the whole car today then you haven't been working the polishes enough. I'd go with Tims advice although I would say even working an area 2x2 would need more than 5 mins. The guys at PB recommended 20-25 passes with each polish. I'd also recommend getting some IPA to wipe down to check your correction level.

Don't be disheartened but just realise as an amateur like me it'll take longer to complete


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## IDreamofGloss (Mar 29, 2012)

Johnnyopolis said:


> IdreamofGloss - Where you based?
> 
> I can see Mirror Finish has offered to help you oooop North but if your further down south and need a hand pop over, bring some biscuits (jaffa cakes are good) and I will help you sort it out and give you some advice too
> 
> ...


....and there was me thinking it was going to be a piece of cake!

Thanks very much everyone for the advice and on reflection have the following thoughts.

1. Seems the DA needs much more time than I gave it but I guess at least I couldn't do even more serious damage which I'm sure I could if someone was daft enough to let me loose with a rotary! 

2. I put too much polish on

3. I didn't spend 5 minutes on a 2ft sq. size area I don't think (but diifcult to really say) certainly not on some areas but couldn't see what was (or wasnt) happening in the overcast conditions - it looked fine and pretty glossy to me.

4. looks like I need the personal touch! :thumb:

5. Looks like I need to book some time off too!

MirrorFinishDetails - thanks for your offer to have a chat tomorrow, much appreciated

Johnnyopolis - I'm getting to bed late 'cos I've just filled my boot with Jaffa Cakes!!  I live very close to Hook where I think you are based so would love to pop over wherever you are down south. I'll try and PM you or perhaps you can advise how best to get in touch? I'll fill the passenger seat with them too if you're around tomorrow.....oops I mean later today...(fell asleep watching the Masters!)


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

Me 2 now,
Good luck with your car, many skills look easy from a distance and enthusiasm will never surpass technique with experience, even with my black pride and joy I may be tempted to pay for a professional detailer initially, it does not have to be the whole car. It is a noble thing to offer practical help and indicative of the DW ethos.

Golf, even Mickelson had 6 strokes on a par 3 it can happen to anyone, he needs a 1 metre tube of those Jaffa Cakes, sounds like you will be sorted, an important detailing lesson for many here wishing to improve.

John Tht, standing away from the car now.


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## riido (Nov 15, 2011)

Am I the only one here who thinks that this might not be DA or polish related?

Of course, I could be wrong, but the the swirls in the picture seem pretty severe.
Pad-contamination is my guess judging from the pictures.
Was there any dust around where you were working?


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## IDreamofGloss (Mar 29, 2012)

riido said:


> Am I the only one here who thinks that this might not be DA or polish related?
> 
> Of course, I could be wrong, but the the swirls in the picture seem pretty severe.
> Pad-contamination is my guess judging from the pictures.
> Was there any dust around where you were working?


Morning, up early as didn't sleep much 

I don't believe so - I thoroughly washed then clayed the car so it appeared squeaky clean.

The pads were new but don't know if they became overloaded with polish - me thinks not and there didn't seem to be a lot to wash out when finished.

I did definitely achieve some cutting and polishing as I removed some scratches on the roof and top of door although two small areas on the roof which looked to me like bird dropping etches didn't come out - I improved them somewhat but not completely removed - they looked like they went 'under' the clearcoat and I felt discretion was the better part of valour and didn't try any further cut.


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## IDreamofGloss (Mar 29, 2012)

Shame it's raining today I was going to give a small area a real go and time it as a check and report back.

Whatever happens though I will report back how it gets resolved (praying!) as it's a good lesson learnt I think for other newbies. 

Most of the threads on here extol the virtues of a DA because of the very low risk of causing major damage in the hands of an amateur (unlike a rotary) but aren't as clear on the fact that you can still screw up how your car looks (and in a way, apart from my own tears haha, that if the sun shines this week I will be blushing when anyone asks why'd I buy a good car with botched paintwork) if you don't use it correctly.

Once I do get it sorted (even if I have to hand over to a pro) I will try to explain it fully on here that would make sense to me if I were reading it afresh as a newbie because I wouldn't want anyone else to suffer the same pit of stomach feeling and uncertainty now as how and when it'll get sorted.

BTW, I'm not for one minute suggesting the posts on here are inaccurate or misleading, it's a fantastic resource and I'm thanking god for DW!!

Car looks great from my window here in the rain and at 30 paces!!! :lol:


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## CliveP (Feb 1, 2009)

If I were you I'd see if you can speak to John today, I think his offer was 'immediate'! Get on the blower, looks like he's online! (as I reply).

(By the way quite easily correctable in my opinion - probably your technique let you down).

Good luck getting it sorted.
Regards,
Clive.


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Dont worry not a lost cause, getting the final best result is one of the hardest parts, you simply cannot do a whole car in a day... takes longer than you think it will and longer than you think on each section.

Just looks to be the finishing stage that causing you issues.

The rain and dull skies will not show up the holograms anyway.

Dont get stressed about others seeing it its your motor take your time and once its fully sorted the dedication you have given it will show through.


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## IDreamofGloss (Mar 29, 2012)

CliveP said:


> If I were you I'd see if you can speak to John today, I think his offer was 'immediate'! Get on the blower, looks like he's online! (as I reply).
> 
> (By the way quite easily correctable in my opinion - probably your technique let you down).
> 
> ...


I intend to CliveP (PM'd him last night) but will let him get out of his PJ's first as its a bank holiday 

....and really appreciate your comment on technique - 'easily correctable' is music to my lugholes.

...just off to put the rope and noose back in the garage....

David


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## Johnnyopolis (Oct 25, 2005)

IDreamofGloss said:


> Shame it's raining today I was going to give a small area a real go and time it as a check and report back.
> 
> Whatever happens though I will report back how it gets resolved (praying!) as it's a good lesson learnt I think for other newbies.
> 
> ...





CliveP said:


> If I were you I'd see if you can speak to John today, I think his offer was 'immediate'! Get on the blower, looks like he's online! (as I reply).
> 
> (By the way quite easily correctable in my opinion - probably your technique let you down).
> 
> ...


That will be me leaving my mac on which makes me "appear" online.

More than happy to help, hell if you want to bring your camera lets take some photos too.

Im pretty confident that with a bit of honing of your DA skills we will have you getting that mirror finish you desire. I dont think you will have done any lasting damage either.

Oh and we could even try the Rupes DA I have in the unit.

Unfortunatly, I have some plans for today but from tomorrow I am around days and into the evenings so I am sure we can get you sorted  We can also get the car out of the rain and put it into the Unit so the weather is no effect to us :thumb:

I have sent you a pm too

ATB

John


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## IDreamofGloss (Mar 29, 2012)

The sky is now blue, the sun is shining and the birds are singing..... I bow down to the feet of whom I am not worthy, the great Johnnyopolis!! 

What a top man who, having heard my tales of woe, invited me along to his Hampshire pad so he could have a look at the evidence and give me some pointers - never have so many Jaffa Cakes been so gratefully given and so wisely eaten in John's Zaino workshop.

This is a brief update as it's late now (and I will sleep soundly :lol but the issue with my attempt to achieve that mirror shine was very simple - mainly just using too much polish and hence never really getting to the point at which the polish was broken down! (as many have indeed said on this post)

There were also some doubts about the use of a DA expressed on here but they were banished in about 3 minutes by using a polishing pad and Menzerna's Super Finish SF4000 (lightest cut polish) with the correct pea sized small amount of polish which removed all my marring trails and the swirls very easily. 

John has taken some photo's with a better camera than mine so hopefully will post them up shortly but the one's below tell the tale.

1st picture is indicative of general state I'd left it in
2nd is the bonnet before polishing with SF4000
3rd is with polish properly broken down (something I never achieved with using an X of polish across the pad - far too much and polish never went properly clear) after just a few minutes.
4th is the same position after wiping clean (slight imprecision on the light reflection is my camera rather than the quality of finish).

A huge thank you to John who finished the bonnet off with some incredible Zaino products (John can explain which ones - I was too euphoric to remember their codes!) which were hugely impressive and he will no doubt be a little more eloquent in his critique of the correction undertaken when he posts soon. I may also be able to brush up on my thoughts later too...

So, here's one very relieved man signing off for some zzzzz's now........

..oh, and a quick thank you also to everyone for all your contributions and suggestions and well, support, which were warmly appreciated.


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## cptzippy (Apr 4, 2012)

Glad it worked out!


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Mirror Finish Details said:


> Oh dear looks like a right shambles.
> 
> I keep saying all the time a DA does not have enough power to drive foam pads for compounding and polishing; the Megs DA MF pads are much thinner to allow the machine to do it's job.
> 
> You do need some heat in the panel to really break up the polish and unlike a rotary a DA with foam pads just does not cut the mustard.


I'm sorry Steve but that is complete and utter nonsense - the suggestion that DA's can't correct and produce crystal clear finishes is just a myth,hundreds of people on this forum alone can do it,you just need the correct pad,polish and technique - none of which is rocket science.


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## JBirchy (Oct 9, 2010)

Just read the whole thread here which has been very interesting to say the least! Im a weekend warrior, just an amateur myself and 1. Its great to see the pro detailers offering such great help and advice, and 2. Fair play to the OP for having a good go, making a (small) mistake and then enjoying a learning experience to go with it!

I bet that small amount of time with John from Zaino tought you more than reading 'correct procedure' has done in months?!!?

I bet it looks stunning BTW, a black freshly polished XF is a beaut to behold!


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## Manxman302 (Jul 25, 2011)

I too am a ''weekend warrior / amateur''..., who would like a small Detailing Unit as a business..

I have to agree totally with other posters on DW commenting positively about the keeness and speed the ''Pro's'' offer their talent & knowledge up FOC to us all, it is very refreshing to read... Thanks guys! :thumb: I have learn't bucket loads (no pun intended...though it must be at least two buckets  ) from reading the pages and pages of usefull information. It is very true though that you can only learn some much reading this sort of information...practice is the key, however I'm not sure I'm brave enough to tackle my Ultimate Black XF as my 1st attempt at machine polishing though :buffer:...I have two old Polos and and scrap bonnet to practice on honing this skill... :buffer:

I too have a black XF and have to agree 100% with the previous that a ''black freshly polished XF is a beaut to behold!'' :doublesho :doublesho


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## domandmel (Mar 16, 2012)

just read the thread, am myself a newbie to detailing, but everyone on this forum (pro`s and enthusiats) and so mega helpful and really keen to help anybody out! 
i bet the car looks amazing now mate! lad you got it sorted

Dom


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## IDreamofGloss (Mar 29, 2012)

Manxman302 said:


> .... however I'm not sure I'm brave enough to tackle my Ultimate Black XF as my 1st attempt at machine polishing though :buffer:...I have two old Polos and and scrap bonnet to practice on honing this skill... :buffer:
> 
> I too have a black XF and have to agree 100% with the previous that a ''black freshly polished XF is a beaut to behold!'' :doublesho :doublesho


Well only the bonnet has been done so far but shaved looking into it this morning and got some funny looks from the neighbours!:lol:

Hoping for some decent weather at the weekend to do a few more panels and having fully understood and realised where I was going wrong now, will enjoy it that much more. Practicing on not so important cars will help because you can try things without too much concern but seriously, the beauty of the DA I think is that it is quite difficult to properly damage the paintwork - my original efforts whilst looking naff were only cosmetic and took a couple of minutes to properly polish out so here is my new foolproof procedure:


use a DA with a mild polish pad
add a pea size blob of polish
dab it a few times within a 2ft sq. area
start the machine on a low speed and spread the polish round
turn up to a higher speed say 4 and slowly work (roughly 2"/second) the DA around and across the 2 ft sq. area keeping the pad flat on the surface
within a short time frame of a few minutes you will see the polish going 'glassy' - if still hazy it has not broken down
turn down speed to finish off with a few more passes.
Stop and buff off and see the effect
If swirls still present either repeat or go up a grade in the polish to cut a bit more - that's the judgement call.

My paintwork was not in bad condition, just looked like it had been in a few automatic washes too many so i think that's why I didn't need anything heavier than a final finish grade polish.

I will reiterate main point though that I was putting on an X of polish on the pad which was way way too much - I guess i couldn't believe a pea shaped size was enough and wouldn't 'dry' out and cause too much friction but seeing was believing!! Less is definitely more with the pad and polish combo I had.

I'll post some pictures up of the finished car once I've done it - the flake of the metallic black looks incredible in the sunlight.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

I think the biggest lesson to be learnt here is that john works for jaffa cakes...

mcvities will be getting tons of sales now and a queue at zaino doors with cars and boots full of jaffa cakes :lol:


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Clark @ PB said:


> I'm sorry Steve but that is complete and utter nonsense - the suggestion that DA's can't correct and produce crystal clear finishes is just a myth,hundreds of people on this forum alone can do it,you just need the correct pad,polish and technique - none of which is rocket science.


Thankfully someone spoke some sense there... Time and time again I read this utter crap about DAs not having the grunt to correct, and this comment is usually born out of a complete misunderstanding of how to use a machine polisher to correct paintwork... the pity is that people who are newer to detailing read it and believe it. Hey ho.

What is good to see is that the issue has been sorted. As OP has probably found out, this machine polishing game is not rocket science - just requires the correct technique of small areas, and correct work times and pressures... and of course the correct amounds of polish and wiping the panels clear to ensure any oily residues are removed.


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## nogrille (Oct 27, 2005)

It wasn't pretty when I popped in, glad it turned out OK in the end.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Johnnyopolis said:


> That will be me leaving my mac on which makes me "appear" online.
> 
> More than happy to help, hell if you want to bring your camera lets take some photos too.
> 
> ...


Top man John just what DW is about and top example why it is the best site i have been a member of , always someone willing to give up time to help excellent


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## Johnnyopolis (Oct 25, 2005)

Sorry its been a while, I have been mental busy for the last couple of weeks.

Here are a few of the photos I took that night :thumb:

After we did a small section with the DA. 


















What the rest looked like under my lights...





































Action Shot!










Looking a LOT better now 














































Suffice to say David was very happy afterwards and I was glad I could help out a DW member as Derek has just said, thats what its all about 

Cheers,

Johnny


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