# HELP - Water Tank / PW / Snow Foam Lance



## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

All.....

I'm in need of some help, advice, guidance......

I have a 280 litre water tank, connected to my karcher K 520 M. To day I connected it all up and tested it. I had a short hose coming out from bottom of tank, PW on floor outside. It took a little while to charge the PW up and if I twisted the Lance nozzle around to max it began to pulse.

I also connected the snow foam Lance, and it didn't give the normal foam spread, and also pulsates at times....

Can my fellow DW colleagues help me out as too what maybe the problem.

Thanks


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

Just a little update, my yellow PW requires a 11.35 litre feed input per minute, and my water tank was only 1/4 full for testing. I take it a full tank will apply increased pressure and hence increased flow rate. Would changing Pressure washer to one which has a 7 litre per minute feed rate I prove the out put performance...!!!!!!!

I hope someone can come along and help me out....!!!!!


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

To get the best flow rate out of your tank you need to do the following:

Keep the top water level in your tank as high as possible compared to the inlet point in your pressure washer, so


Elevate the tank if possible
Keep the water level in the tank as high as possible
Have the inlet point for your pressure washer as low as possible


Finally (although not as crucial as the above) : Keep the feed pipe from the tank to your pressure washer as large as possible and as short as possible.


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## shaneslatcher93 (Oct 13, 2013)

Like above, make sure your tank is elevated above the PW.. I have a Petrol honda PW and i usually have that about 15 ft from my van with a hose that length, it works great, although my PW sucks the water from the tank so mine doesn't have to be gravity fed, not sure about yours?


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## TheGruffalo1 (Dec 11, 2013)

What's the difference? Is it better to be 'sucked' from or off a tap?


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

Just out of curiosity I found online spec of my K PW and it states requires 2.5 gallons of water flow per minute, which equates to 11.35 litres per minute.. It also recommends that the flow into the PW should be 10% greater than the flow rate which would mean a required flow rate at input of 12.47 litres per minute from the tank to the PW. So if I'm going along the right lines, if there is not 12.47 litre per minute flow rate from my tank my PW is going to struggle, take long to charge and build up pressure not be able to sustain pressure and begin pulsating...!!!

If that is the case, and I'm hoping you will all advise me accordingly, then the purchase of a new PW with a flow rate of 7 litres per minute would solve the problem...?????????


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Hercs74 said:


> Just out of curiosity I found online spec of my K PW and it states requires 2.5 gallons of water flow per minute, which equates to 11.35 litres per minute.. It also recommends that the flow into the PW should be 10% greater than the flow rate which would mean a required flow rate at input of 12.47 litres per minute from the tank to the PW. So if I'm going along the right lines, if there is not 12.47 litre per minute flow rate from my tank my PW is going to struggle, take long to charge and build up pressure not be able to sustain pressure and begin pulsating...!!!
> 
> If that is the case, and I'm hoping you will all advise me accordingly, then the purchase of a new PW with a flow rate of 7 litres per minute would solve the problem...?????????


While the flow rate required is 12.5 l/sec, just because you don't get that flow out of your tank under gravity, it does not mean that it won't work. It depends on the spec of the pump in the PW. Some pumps are designed as negative head pumps and they can "suck" water into them.

I am not sure about your PW, but the Kranzle K7 can do this (great PWs - I have one). These work at 7 l/sec.


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm pretty sure my PW sucks as when the pressure drops the motor kicks in as if it draws water and builds pressure back up... So would a 7 litre per minute PW manage this better as the litres per minute is lower. I would love a Kranzle K7 but I can't justify cost unless it is on group buy and I'll have to change my Snow foam connections etc....!!!!!


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## Guru (Aug 28, 2013)

Am I missing something here?

You have a K520 model, is it the same as the K5 now? If it is, then you can add a suction hose to it and it can suck water from a tank even below it's level. K3 and above models can do it, not the K2 ones.


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

still sounds as if you have an air block, when I use my tank all I make sure I do is open the tap on the tank so water is flowing then push it onto the PW , never get any problems doing it like this.
plus my tank is only 175 and horizontal so no head of water


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

Guru I need a little more info re the suction hose... There is a very thin and small rubber tube with filter which goes into a shampoo bottle to mix shampoo and water...!!! Is this what you mean..? It's far too short to reach my upright tank...

Peter.... I've run water through the hose to test for flow and it was running well....!!!! 

I'm at a loss to be honest. I'd love a Kranzle K7 when and if it comes in a group buy, and don't want to change my PW yet unless I really need to....

Thanks all for advise so far....!!!!


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## Guru (Aug 28, 2013)

Hercs74 said:


> Guru I need a little more info re the suction hose... There is a very thin and small rubber tube with filter which goes into a shampoo bottle to mix shampoo and water...!!! Is this what you mean..? It's far too short to reach my upright tank...


This is what I'm talking about -

http://karcheroutlet.co.uk/products/product.asp?id=196


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

ok but are you pushing it on to the PW still running


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

Be honest I can't remember if I did or not... I was trying so many different things....!!!!!


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

Guru.... I only have one connection point on my PW and that's on the side.....!!!!!

See link below for image

http://www.ppe-pressure-washer-parts.com/files/1961581/uploaded/k520m.jpg

Regards


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

try it open up the tap on the tank , get it flowing and push it onto the PW.
also check the tank cap is open or if it has a vent , because the preasure in there can hold the water back . mine has no vent so I just open the black cap


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

It has a vent on the cap...!!!! I'll try your theory on Friday as I'm working in London for next 2 days..... I will let u know on here on Friday.. Would the PW before better if it was a 7 litre per minute system...????


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

not sure what mine is its a karcher HD , never had any problems pulling from my tank , and the PW before that was a karcher 785 top domestic and again no probs .
but I always open up the tap so the water is running then push it on the PW.

good luck hope it works


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## TheGruffalo1 (Dec 11, 2013)

PETER @ ECLIPSE said:


> not sure what mine is its a karcher HD , never had any problems pulling from my tank , and the PW before that was a karcher 785 top domestic and again no probs .
> but I always open up the tap so the water is running then push it on the PW.
> 
> good luck hope it works


But doesn't water go all over? Or does the hoselock clip stop that?


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

yes it does but its only a trickle until it pushes on the PW / hoselock connector , everything is getting wet anyway


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

UPDATE….

Cap taken off water tank, hose connected to PW whilst water running. Still pulsed on start up but settled after a few minutes. Adjust the lance to its max pressure setting caused pulsating to start. The water spread from the PW and the pressure is still dramatically reduced compared to when using mains pressure water. It took considerably longer to rinse the car.

I tried my snow foam. There was very little foam being produced and when adjusted mis=x setting to increasing foaming it seamed to cause the foam bottle to collapse, as if the air was being sucked out of it…!!!!

Please I need some help… I thought everything would work ok but it appears I'm lacking in either pressure or flow rate of water???

Do I need to replace my PW. HELP HELP HELP ME PLEASE…!!!!

Thanks


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm going to measure the flow rate of my tank at 60 seconds…!!!


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

11 litres in a minute ..!!! Thats direct from the tank. And with the hose connected, at the end where the PW connects its about 3.5 litres in a minute…!!


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## stiffler69 (Jan 20, 2014)

I have a very inexspensive halfords hp1400 pressure washer and it works from a 120 liter tank with no issues at all


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

Stiffler how old is your PW… Im starting to think mine may just not have the guts anymore to pull the water..??? What I don't want to do is spend out on a new PW to have the same problems..!!!!


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

Anybody help me…!!!! Please..!!!


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## stiffler69 (Jan 20, 2014)

Hercs74 said:


> Stiffler how old is your PW… Im starting to think mine may just not have the guts anymore to pull the water..??? What I don't want to do is spend out on a new PW to have the same problems..!!!!


its just a couple of weeks old and is on offer for only £40 for the unit i use and its good enough halfords hp1400, 70 bar unit itself is really good build quality the only issues i had was with the hose and fittings but got them replaced. :thumb:


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

My water tank has a 3/4 BSP connector on the bottom side. This has a 3/4 inch valve which has a 3/4 - 1/2 inch hose connector. 1/2 inch hose feeds PW


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

Anybody Please I'm at a loss at the mo..!!!!


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## HairyMonster (Apr 3, 2010)

I use a 3/4" Hose pipe to feed my Kranzle, (bought from Screwfix around £23.49 with fittings)

I use a 220 liter water butt approx 24" off the ground.

I measured the flow rate at the end of the 6 Metre pipe, which was just over 7 Litres per minute, which is ok for the Kranzle.

You could try the bigger bore pipe HTH. ALSO get rid of any Waterstop connectors as they restrict flow :thumb:


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

I've never used the aqua stop connectors cos I know what problems they can cause.. Unfortunately I can raise the tank any higher from the van floor as I think I risk it becoming unsafe due to the weight.. Funnily enough I'm getting the 3/4 inch hose and fittings from screw fix tomorrow.. Going to re test flow rates etc and see how it goes..


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

From all I've been told and researched in theory I shouldn't be having issues..!! That's why I feel it's my PW ....


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

the only other thing is to get someone else over and see if theyre PW works ok on your set up , if so then the PW is gone


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

Looks like only option.. My Dad has one but it's old so I'll try that but think I'll have to go knock on a few neighbours doors tomorrow


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

good luck, its a bummer when things don't work


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## IndepthCarDetailing (Feb 12, 2012)

hi you might need a pump to help your pressure washer.
Does your pressure washer work ok on mains water supply?
if it does then you might need a pump of some sort to help it out


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

I was of the understanding the Karcher PW's pump was versatile in its ability to draw water sufficiently enough to provide adequate out put pressure....!!!!! And that the norm is a pump is not necessary ...!!!!


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

PETER @ ECLIPSE said:


> good luck, its a bummer when things don't work


Bloody annoying too..!!!!


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## TheGruffalo1 (Dec 11, 2013)

I know you said you can't justify a Kranzle at the minute, but surely will be worth it in the long run? Don't worry about the foam lances, the connector's are only around £8.


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

Trust me I'd love to have a Kranzle... But I've just set myself up with a little van as I now have 10 cars I look after and as a result friends of friends are asking for work to be done... I'm hoping I can start up a little business in the future. But I still have much to learn, and I'd like some training at KDS. It all costs money. I've reached my budget, and although I saved £400 on my outlay, my van broke down so I had to spend that money on repairs. I need to clear my bills which or a few k.... I do t like having debt, so I want it cleared ASAP......!!!!!


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

I now have 3/4 inch hose to replace the standard 1/2 inch... Off to test see if the larger bore hose makes a difference.....!!!!!


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

Ok... I've connected 10 meters of 3/4 inch hose to my tank. Tested the flow rate at the end of the hose which would connect to my PW. With tank cap closed and rely on vent in cap, and tank just under 3/4 full I got a flow rate of 11 litres per minute. An increase of 7.5 litres per minute compared with the 1/2 inch hose. The flow from the new hose visa boy better. However, saying that it's made very little difference on the out put of the PW Lance. With the Lance twisted around to max the PW starts to pulsate and after a very short time, due to power being drawn by PW my generator trips out...!!!!

My gut feeling is that my PW motor / pump has lost its MOJO...!!!! What's everyone else's thoughts...?????I've still to to do a test using a different PW but everyone around me that posses a PW are all out...!!!!


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## warrmr (Jan 10, 2014)

are you priming the PW before you use it so the motor is not pumping air when you first turn it on. 

Try connecting the water but not turning on the power and pulling the trigger on the lance till water flows through release the trigger and turn on the power.

The other thing I assume it works fine when using mains water, if so it sounds like there is air getting in somewhere when you are using it from the tank or there is a leak somewhere.


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm not sure I've tried that...!!! But I will re test in this manor... I do get slight pulsing when on mains supply but that's at the max pressure on the Lance.... I'll try it and get back to you ...


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

Ive connected hose to tank, let water flow through. With PW switched off I have connected hose. With feed input to PW lower than tank and PW lance locked open and laying on the floor, no water came out of the end of the lance. Its does trickle out when connected to mains water supply..!!!!!


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

Just a little update... Popped over to see my Dad... Connected his tiny Karcher 200 which I don't even think they make anymore, and powerful water appeared... Put mine to shame....!!!! New PW to be ordered... just shame the Kranzle is not on group buy...

For those who have provided advice and guidance, I am most grateful.. Thank you.....


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## HairyMonster (Apr 3, 2010)

Hercs74 said:


> Just a little update... Popped over to see my Dad... Connected his tiny Karcher 200 which I don't even think they make anymore, and powerful water appeared... Put mine to shame....!!!! New PW to be ordered... just shame the Kranzle is not on group buy...
> 
> For those who have provided advice and guidance, I am most grateful.. Thank you.....


Glad you got it sorted mate :thumb:


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

Just to let those know who we're following this thread, that it was definitely my PW at fault.. Purchased a new PW which arrived today. Tried test and ran like it was connected to mains supply .....


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## Guru (Aug 28, 2013)

Hercs74 said:


> Purchased a new PW which arrived today. Tried test and ran like it was connected to mains supply .....


Which one?


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

I wanted the Kranzle but not on group buy... And as my budget was used up, i had £200 in overtime from my main job.. So I got a Karcher K5 £199. And I'm impressed with it, but that's not difficult as my old one was naff..!!! But it did last me 10+ years


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## TheGruffalo1 (Dec 11, 2013)

Glad to see it's sorted bud. :thumb:


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