# Cquartz UK Question



## Matt_Nic (Apr 15, 2011)

Hi folks, 

I had a meeting with a bush last week so now need to fix that. Figured while I was at it, I would get a layer of decent protection on the car. 
I haven't used ceramic coatings before and have a question about application, particularly in October...

If I was to apply it, say early Sunday morning, would there be a problem if the car got damp over night/early Monday due to morning due?


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2020)

Matt_Nic said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I had a meeting with a bush last week so now need to fix that. Figured while I was at it, I would get a layer of decent protection on the car.
> I haven't used ceramic coatings before and have a question about application, particularly in October...
> ...


Try and give yourself 48 hours of nice weather with no rain after the application to get a proper cure and avoid any chance of water spots etching. Morning dew certainly won't hurt it, but the drier the better. It's pretty forgiving stuff really.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Matt_Nic said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I had a meeting with a bush last week so now need to fix that. Figured while I was at it, I would get a layer of decent protection on the car.
> I haven't used ceramic coatings before and have a question about application, particularly in October...
> ...


Assume you are doing your prep for it - i.e. polishing in advance? No point applying a coating without polishing and both polishing and coating a car to a good standard outdoors in a single day accounting for an element of curing before dew at this time of year would be a challenge IMO.

Personally would do all of that before, give the car a fresh wash the next day ideally then IPA wipedown late morning on a day where there is no chance of rain that way you're giving the coating a good few initial hours to cure before the evening dew comes in.


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## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

i did 2 coats of carpro lite recently, topped with reload afterwards, 1 hour gaps, about 4-5 hours later evening dew set in, i was worried but ive looked over the car many times and no marks whatsoever


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2020)

atbalfour said:


> Assume you are doing your prep for it - i.e. polishing in advance? No point applying a coating without polishing and both polishing and coating a car to a good standard outdoors in a single day accounting for an element of curing before dew at this time of year would be a challenge IMO.
> 
> Personally would do all of that before, give the car a fresh wash the next day ideally then IPA wipedown late morning on a day where there is no chance of rain that way you're giving the coating a good few initial hours to cure before the evening dew comes in.


Very good points here. Getting the polishing done the day before is good advice if working outdoors. Starting the next day on the coating and having a full day of UV to cure makes good sense.


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## Matt_Nic (Apr 15, 2011)

You assumed right. Getting the full works, 2 stage polish, panel wipe etc. All that is old hat, but the coating is something I've never used before. 
The idea I have is to get all the ebow grease done one day, then get the coating on the next morning (weather dependent) so that it has all day and most of the night to cure before the dew sets in. 
Guess I could then get up the next morning and give it a wipe down before the dew boils off.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Matt_Nic said:


> .........get the coating on the next morning (weather dependent) so that it has all day and most of the night to cure before the dew sets in.
> Guess I could then get up the next morning and give it a wipe down before the dew boils off.


Applying Reload after 1 hour, as recommended by CarPro, will Protect the CQuartz UK during the initial curing even if you do get dew forming overnight.

Alan W


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## Matt_Nic (Apr 15, 2011)

Alan W said:


> Applying Reload after 1 hour, as recommended by CarPro, will Protect the CQuartz UK during the initial curing even if you do get dew forming overnight.
> 
> Alan W


Is it not within an hour or if you miss that hour window, after 24 hours?


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## Matt_Nic (Apr 15, 2011)

Leaflet says "apply reload after final coat within 60 minutes. Wait until next dayfor Reload if you miss the 60 minute window"


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

According to the below CQ.UK 3.0 Instruction Manual it states to "Apply Reload 60 mins after applying the final layer:

https://carpro.global/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/CarPro_CQUK_Instruction_2020-1.pdf

Alan W


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## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

i know it was Lite that I used but I believe the same instructions apply

i applied reload 1 hour after the 2nd coat of Lite, dew about 4-5 hours later and no issues to report


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Alan W said:


> According to the below CQ.UK 3.0 Instruction Manual it states to "Apply Reload 60 mins after applying the final layer":
> 
> https://carpro.global/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/CarPro_CQUK_Instruction_2020-1.pdf
> 
> Alan W


And the same advice quoted in the below "Coating Tips for CQ.UK 3.0":

https://carpro.global/tips/cq-uk-3-0/

Alan W


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## Matt_Nic (Apr 15, 2011)

That's weird, this is the leaflet that came in the kit


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

I have sent an email to Avi Moradi of CarPro Trading making him aware of this Thread and the issue.

If he replies to me I'll update with his response.

Alan W

*Update from Avi below:*

_Hi Alan
the printed file is a mistake , we updated recently the printed user guide for this . 
the website is correct 
after 1h or longer is ok, especially if its cold weather ..

Avi_


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2020)

Best just skip reload altogether IMO. Cquartz really doesn't need a topper.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

DannyRS3 said:


> Best just skip reload altogether IMO. Cquartz really doesn't need a topper.


Reload is needed if you are not to compromise the curing and subsequent durability of CQ.UK due to the dew that'll form outdoor at this time of year as mentioned in previous posts.

Use Reload to protect the CQ.UK during the curing period and leave it to degrade over the next couple of months if you'd rather not have it or just replace with something else when the time comes.

Alan W


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2020)

Alan W said:


> Reload is needed if you are not to compromise the curing and subsequent durability of CQ.UK due to the dew that'll form outdoor at this time of year as mentioned in previous posts.
> 
> Use Reload to protect the CQ.UK during the curing period and leave it to degrade over the next couple of months if you'd rather not have it or just replace with something else when the time comes.
> 
> Alan W


In no way is it "needed", it is an option and may help protect the curing if the car will get wet right after application, but it is a poor product, and when it degrades it can effect the hydrophobic properties of the coating, and look as though it is failing. It also attracts dust. It is not needed, but it is an option. My 3 cars were coated and cured outdoors in rainy Scotland , all more than 8 months now, no reload or any toppers and beed like this:


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## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

how long before application did your car get wet, or even dew on it


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2020)

BRUN said:


> how long before application did your car get wet, or even dew on it


I don't think it's ever not rained after 3-4 clear days here, so no longer than that.


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## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

well 3-4 days is enough isnt it ?

what if it had rained 3 hours later, could be a different story, and its very possible to happen at the minute the way the weather has changed


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

DannyRS3 said:


> In no way is it "needed", it is an option and may help protect the curing if the car will get wet right after application, but it is a poor product, and when it degrades it can effect the hydrophobic properties of the coating, and look as though it is failing. It also attracts dust. It is not needed, but it is an option. My 3 cars were coated and cured outdoors in rainy Scotland , all more than 8 months now, no reload or any toppers and beed like this:
> 
> View attachment 59661


I agree that Reload is a poor product, but in this instance it isn't there to be a topper in the long term, it's there to essentially be a raincoat to the coating while it gets some hardness. After a couple of days CQUK 3.0 will have achieved most of its hardness, but will continue to cure for a week or even more. It is the first day or 2 that most coatings really need the help of the curing aid product to allow it to retain its smooth appearance and long term performance. 8 months is quite short term for a high solids coating, a further year would be more interesting.

I do agree that CQUK 3.0 doesn't need topping though after the curing period and Reload is perhaps the worst product CarPro make.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2020)

BRUN said:


> well 3-4 days is enough isnt it ?
> 
> what if it had rained 3 hours later, could be a different story, and its very possible to happen at the minute the way the weather has changed


Yes, 48 hours is enough really. Weather forecasting is accurate enough to say if there is 48 hours of clear weather mate. I'm partial to the Dark Sky app, it's very accurate. That's the window one would need to wait for if coating outside. Worked for me anyway


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2020)

roscopervis said:


> I agree that Reload is a poor product, but in this instance it isn't there to be a topper in the long term, it's there to essentially be a raincoat to the coating while it gets some hardness. After a couple of days CQUK 3.0 will have achieved most of its hardness, but will continue to cure for a week or even more. It is the first day or 2 that most coatings really need the help of the curing aid product to allow it to retain its smooth appearance and long term performance. 8 months is quite short term for a high solids coating, a further year would be more interesting.
> 
> I do agree that CQUK 3.0 doesn't need topping though after the curing period and Reload is perhaps the worst product CarPro make.


At 8 months it's beading like new, so no doubts it has cured and will last as advertised. I see the logic behind a rain coat like reload, but I have only found that as reload fades the performance falls off. Understanding how the curing process works as cquartz cures and crystallises, and that texture is what gives it the lotus effect it makes very little sense to essentially fill those gaps with a lesser product with its own hydrophobic qualities that are shorter lifespan. That's how I see it anyway. So as long as you can get a cure in some dry days there is no reason to use it.


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## Matt_Nic (Apr 15, 2011)

Thanks everyone, especially Alan W. 

The kit came with a small bottle of reload to use so it will get used, especially as the dew is a concern to me. 

The follow up question I guess, is if it's not a great product, is there anything that is a better alternative for topping up going forward?

What are peoples opinions on buying and using the Carpro shampoo? (reset?)
I see they also sell a product called Gliss which, like many detailing products, I can't for the life of me figure out what it does.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2020)

Matt_Nic said:


> Thanks everyone, especially Alan W.
> 
> The kit came with a small bottle of reload to use so it will get used, especially as the dew is a concern to me.
> 
> ...


You don't need to "top up". Nothing tops up anyway, it just covers over. Just enjoy your ceramic coat for 18-24 months and wash it regularly with reset. It really is one of the best shampoo for ceramic coatings. Avoid anything alkaline or that leaves behind its own protection or you will just degrade the performance of the cquartz.

If you really must spray something on the car try elixir as a drying aid and gloss enhancer. Nice stuff and doesn't fade and start sheeting like reload does.


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## Matt_Nic (Apr 15, 2011)

My casual readings had always made me think these coatings needed regular maintainence on top of them. I'm more keen to have something that is quick and easy to clean rather than making more work for myself lol. Wife and kid don't mix well with 2+ hours every weekend on the car.
I'll look into the Elixir. 

How far does a 30ml bottle of cquartz typically go?
I'm doing an E46 convertible so no roof to do. 
I do own 2 other cars so thinking of those too....


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Matt_Nic said:


> What are peoples opinions on buying and using the Carpro shampoo? (reset?)


CarPro Reset is a very good shampoo and would be a good choice to use with CQuartz. :thumb:

Alan W


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2020)

Matt_Nic said:


> My casual readings had always made me think these coatings needed regular maintainence on top of them. I'm more keen to have something that is quick and easy to clean rather than making more work for myself lol. Wife and kid don't mix well with 2+ hours every weekend on the car.
> I'll look into the Elixir.
> 
> How far does a 30ml bottle of cquartz typically go?
> ...


The only maintenance it needs is regular washing with reset. Once a year you can hit the car with IronX. if you live in the city or do a lot of motorway miles maybe twice a year and that is literally it. Cermaic is designed to be very low maintenance, and to touch it as little as possible, which is partly why people who love to detail tend to avoid it as you can't polish it or play with your paint constantly. Which is why unnecessary toppers are sold to them so they have something too buy and play with 

The critical thing is the the cermaic not get clogged up with hard water, dirt and in my opinion fouled toppers. This is what reduces the hydrophobicity. The actual protection will remain long after the car no long beads in many cases, but if you maintain it with regular washes.

Elixir is totally optional, but it does make for a nice drying aid, and add a bit of gloss.

30ml should easily coat the car twice with a bit left to spare, I'm not sure it would stretch to 3 cars, but as yours in a drop top it might well, but you won't want to come up short in the middle of a job, and if you do pick up the odd scratch and need to buff it out it is nice to have a bit spare to re-coat the area.


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## Matt_Nic (Apr 15, 2011)

My other cars are a bit bigger so maybe I'll see how this goes before deciding it is the future. 

I'm with you on the urge to tinker and it did put me off for a while. But I'm just getting so busy these days I wanted something that'll get my by for a long period. 

If a product existed that stopped bush scratches and kerb marks I'd be all over it. Bloody wife....


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2020)

I've always been a tinkerer as well. Soon as I see a blemish the polisher comes out, and it's always been fun to try new products. Long life ceramics really aren't that compatible with this type of outlook on detailing. Any polishing and you need to recoat the area, and for many that is cost prohibitive. Which leads to the point if it is a car that gets a few scuffs and scratches and chips is ceramic really right for you? I suppose for those that will never polish a car, and after a couple of years they either trade it in, or get it detailed professionally and remove some of the blemishes then that is ok. But if you stay on top of these things yourself, and like to get the polisher out then maybe a lite ceramic or other LSP is a better. cheaper choice.

For me, cquartz has been an amazing experience, and I'm really sold on it. My first application I washed it off with BH products in no time, and since re-coating I've been astounded how little attention the cars need, the self cleaning, dust repellency, and ease of washing. OCD still kicks in when I see the odd scratch, but ceramic does take at least some of the impact on light scratches and helps protect, though nowhere near as much as some manufacturers would have you believe...

As for wife's and scratches - makes me wish I had a talent for PPF installations. But at that price it was cheaper just to buy her her own car to run into things with and keep her well away from mine . So far so good... though I suspect the light scratches my car picks up is her walking past it with bags!


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## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

DannyRS3 can you elaborate on 'washed it off with BH products' ?

what were you doing exactly ?


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2020)

BRUN said:


> DannyRS3 can you elaborate on 'washed it off with BH products' ?
> 
> what were you doing exactly ?


I probably sound like a broken record at this point mate, and I apologise if people are tired of my harping on about BH vs ceramics... but using auto-wash and auto-foam at recommended concentrations degraded my cquartz uk 3.0 coating to failure within 3 months. I've since experimented a bit, and found that at 10% dilution surfex HD will wipe cquartz UK right off the panel. I noticed this first with my coated wheels, which were hours of work to do, and gone after a single wash down with 10% surfex and a EX wheel brush. Subsequently tried it on other panels to see and was amazed at the result. I then tried auto-foam at 1% dilution on 1 panel of my wife's coated car and it has significantly degraded after just 4 washes. I LOVE BH products, don't get me wrong. Surfex is awesome stuff, auto foam is the most effective foam I've ever used, and auto wash is probably the most economical soap on the market. Unfortunately it not compatible with ceramics though and I learned it the hard way


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## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

So, I should definitely stop using auto wash after my recent thread !

Carpro Reset ordered !!!


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2020)

BRUN said:


> So, I should definitely stop using auto wash after my recent thread !
> 
> Carpro Reset ordered !!!


I wish I could buy reset in 20gal drums. It's great stuff. Foams beautifully also.


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## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

Wish I'd known about this issue before


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

DannyRS3 said:


> I probably sound like a broken record at this point mate, and I apologise if people are tired of my harping on about BH vs ceramics... but using auto-wash and auto-foam at recommended concentrations degraded my cquartz uk 3.0 coating to failure within 3 months. I've since experimented a bit, and found that at 10% dilution surfex HD will wipe cquartz UK right off the panel. I noticed this first with my coated wheels, which were hours of work to do, and gone after a single wash down with 10% surfex and a EX wheel brush. Subsequently tried it on other panels to see and was amazed at the result. I then tried auto-foam at 1% dilution on 1 panel of my wife's coated car and it has significantly degraded after just 4 washes. I LOVE BH products, don't get me wrong. Surfex is awesome stuff, auto foam is the most effective foam I've ever used, and auto wash is probably the most economical soap on the market. Unfortunately it not compatible with ceramics though and I learned it the hard way


Autowash is affecting coatings at 2000:1? I get the Autofoam and Surfex HD can affect coatings, but I don't think that Autowash (pH9 in the bottle) at 2000:1 will strip a coating, certainly nothing that I've seen. I do know that you need to give it a good rinse as it has some ingredients that stick a bit on the paint dulling water behaviour, but otherwise it is a great wash.

I have been using Autofoam for years, including over the last year with my Feynlab Ceramic coated car (mostly at 4% up until May this year) and my car is fine. I have an idea of what it affects badly and what it doesn't, so it's a case of using common sense. Look at Labocosmetica's 3pH cleaning system, it's kind of what I do, but using Autofoam, pH neutral car soap and Fse in common sense ways about once a quarter.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2020)

roscopervis said:


> Autowash is affecting coatings at 2000:1? I get the Autofoam and Surfex HD can affect coatings, but I don't think that Autowash (pH9 in the bottle) at 2000:1 will strip a coating, certainly nothing that I've seen. I do know that you need to give it a good rinse as it has some ingredients that stick a bit on the paint dulling water behaviour, but otherwise it is a great wash.
> 
> I have been using Autofoam for years, including over the last year with my Feynlab Ceramic coated car (mostly at 4% up until May this year) and my car is fine. I have an idea of what it affects badly and what it doesn't, so it's a case of using common sense. Look at Labocosmetica's 3pH cleaning system, it's kind of what I do, but using Autofoam, pH neutral car soap and Fse in common sense ways about once a quarter.


It'll be auto-foam that stripped the coating rather than auto wash most likely, but I was using both at the time, and it would be wise not to underestimate the cleaning power of any BH products!

I'd suggest you watch this before using FSE on ceramic regularly:






Another great product that is not good for use on ceramics.

As for feylab, I've not got experience with it myself, but if it is truly holding up to 4% auto-foam (ie. you use no toppers at all and have noticed no deterioration in the coating) than it must have far higher chemical resistance than most other ceramics. That may be the case, but if you use a topper regularly you may just not be noticing the deterioration.


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## Matt_Nic (Apr 15, 2011)

Problem with my wife, is she can't drive the crappy station car because it's a manual. She, apparently, can only drive the X3 that cost us a whole lot more than the crappy station car. 

She looked put out when i bought the M3 and didn't put her on the insurance. 
"But you can't drive a manual dear?"
Oh, oh yeah she said.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2020)

I kept the wife out of my car by making it so obnoxiously loud with a decat and remap she doesn’t like driving in it let alone taking it out herself. I may also have told her it now only shifts with the paddles and her automatic licence wouldn’t allow it... heh heh...


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

roscopervis said:


> Autowash is affecting coatings at 2000:1? I get the Autofoam and Surfex HD can affect coatings, but I don't think that Autowash (pH9 in the bottle) at 2000:1 will strip a coating, certainly nothing that I've seen. I do know that you need to give it a good rinse as it has some ingredients that stick a bit on the paint dulling water behaviour, but otherwise it is a great wash.
> 
> I have been using Autofoam for years, including over the last year with my Feynlab Ceramic coated car (mostly at 4% up until May this year) and my car is fine. I have an idea of what it affects badly and what it doesn't, so it's a case of using common sense. Look at Labocosmetica's 3pH cleaning system, it's kind of what I do, but using Autofoam, pH neutral car soap and Fse in common sense ways about once a quarter.


Would tend to agree re. AutoWash - unlikely to be strong enough to affect anything but the most fragile LSP on it's own, but it's far from the cleanest rinsing shampoo and if you're not using a pressure washer, don't bother! Personally found there to be slicker, foamier shampoos which work better.. Reset is one, TAC Mystic Bubble is basically a slicker version of Reset which smells nicer.

Was watching the Labocosmetica 3pH stuff the other night and it's fascinating. I am looking forward to trying some of their products - Neve on a regular basis, then their more alkaline foam & acid product on major decon washes where I am applying protection.. Let's see if they hit the various LSPs stacked on mine!

Regarding Feynlab'c ceramic - have you been topping it or allowing it to run standalone? While my own findings have mirrored those of Danny's with the coating brands I've used personally - coating formulations do differ and I myself caught myself the other night almost making a broad statement about alkalines accelerating coating degradation when actually these results are not proven, nor confirmed across an array of brands as far as I am aware.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2020)

Can confirm surfex (10%) will remove gtechniq C5 which should be more chemical resistant that C1 given it is for wheels. Also removed DLUX and CQuartz 3.0 UK as stated earlier, and will easily removes Geyon cancoat which was on the wife's run about. It's a fair point about blanket statements I've not tested feynlab or kamikaze, but given the ease in which cquartz wipes off, and also how fast it degraded with 4% auto foam I'd be very surprised if any coating will really stand up to it for long. More important though is give the time, effort and costs involved in coating a car, especially those paying for it, I think most will agree it's not worth risking washing it off.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

DannyRS3 said:


> It'll be auto-foam that stripped the coating rather than auto wash most likely, but I was using both at the time, and it would be wise not to underestimate the cleaning power of any BH products!
> 
> I'd suggest you watch this before using FSE on ceramic regularly:
> 
> ...


I know that Autofoam basically reduces BSD to a quivering wreck in one 4% hit, also it takes out Autoglym EGP too and severely knocks Sonax PNS, Turtlewax Hydrophobic Sealant Wax quite severely too over the course of 3 or 4 washes. However, I can't say that I have noticed the same at 1%. Over the course of the year I've had they Feynlab (Ceramic V1 and Topcoat, which is like Exo or Gliss and is meant to last around a year) on the car, it has been topped periodically with Coat It - Polar Seal in commercial form. By the time I would use Coat it again, it is apparent the previous Coat It had worn off. Until May this year that was all it had, apart from 2 decent wipedowns with Fse. Then, with lockdown I got bored and started a few experiments using both of my cars...

I haven't used Autowash for a while, but when I did I was using BSD quite a lot and it didn't affect it, though it did require a good pressure washer rinse to ensure it had fully gone. The anti rust components must leave a little something that if not rinsed properly can hide the beading for a few days. Similar to what something like Autoglym Bodywork Conditioner Shampoo does with it's rinsing agent. That promotes a sheeting behaviour which also changes the typical surface tension for a couple of days.

Coming back to those experiments, I have been discussing the Fse issue with Andreas who made that video quite a bit. I'm a big advocate of using it, but sensibly. So much so, I did my own experiments with Fse and a range of 'regular' LSP's to see how it affected them when used as a QD after every wash. It affects 'ceramic' sealants a fair bit, but it also affects BSD/PNS and CarPlan Supergloss No.1 and TW HSW a lot too. It doesn't seem to affect paste waxes, or at least BH DSW or Collinite 915 and Wowo's Crystal Sealant was unaffected at the point when the experiment ended.

Also, Andreas rubbed Fse across the coated cars a lot - 50 times. I don't advocate that either. I know it's to demonstrate the point, but it's not real world. I think there are much better ways to use it on a coated car that won't degrade the coating, but will give you the benefits. As with many chemicals, it's about being sensible.

With my coated car, I learned that Megs Wash Plus will remove the coating and not scratch the paint (tried it on a bumper corner), this also gives me a small corner to try stand alone products to see how they do against a coating. The coating isn't performing as day 1, though that would be the Topcoat diminish and I would say that it is between 50-75% across the car (before a different experiment in late August) which is decent for a 1 year product after 11 months (5000 miles), at least 8 uses of Autofoam at 4%, 2 good hits of Fse and another 3 of light 'maintenance' use.

In August I put on Wowo's Ceramic Booster on half the car to see how it goes and a Facebook promoted 'Instaramic' on the other half. Not much to say on those yet, I will save them for another thread.

My main point is that it boils down to common sense. It starts with what product you are picking as your LSP, then what you want to do to wash and maintain. You don't need an aggressive foam with a coated car, so if you're looking to buy one, and you are looking for LSP longevity then do some research. Most pH neutral snowfoams aren't very good in resisting corrosion so may lead to rust issues accelerating, if you have any. How much LSP damage does a 1% Autofoam mix do? That is something I'm keen to try and maybe is something I'll try next vs a pH neutral snowfoam at regular dilution. I have stopped using Autofoam at 4% but will continue to use it at 1%. My soap tends to be anything on offer but good, so is Wax Planet Lava. As I said, I look to the Labocosmetica pH system idea for my template.

With Fse, I have written on here before (a lot!) what I think and how I think it should be used. Infrequently, but it should be used. Also, if you do use a drying aid like Coat it, by the time you have finished drying the car using Fse on that wet car, I think that it isn't strong enough to remove the Coat It, let alone the coating under it, yet will remove any water spots and those dirty lines and stains that you can get, particularly on black cars, that are water/tree sap/other light contamination. It is essentially like giving it a very light claying without the damage.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2020)

Seeing FSE degrade coatings was a bit of a heartbreaker for sure, Do a plastic bag test before and after and it will tell you just how good it is at breaking down contaminants. It is a superb product, but for the sake of coating longevity it now lives in the bathroom making my shower door shiny 

As with BH stuff in moderation it might be fine, but to me, and to many who spent the time and effort coating and want a full life span form it it's really best to avoid these excellent products IMO.

Interesting point on PH foams and corrosion. I'd used BH AF on my car from brand new, and surfex on the wheels including the discs as my wheels are big and discs are exposed, and may have I had some serious corrosion on them Audi's aren't great to begin with, but A car with 2200 miles with rusty discs is appalling. I can only put it down to the cleaning regimen, which incidentally included drying the discs with a bigboi, and after noticing the corrosion using atom-mac to try and slow it. I had noticed the same thing with Autoglym polar wash on the wife's 35000 mile car which looked fine before I started washing it for her. It's not just PH neutral foams that can cause corrosion, but it is a factory to consider.

Since going to reset as my one and only soap I no longer get orange discs after a wash.


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

DannyRS3 said:


> Can confirm surfex (10%) will remove gtechniq C5 which should be more chemical resistant that C1 given it is for wheels. Also removed DLUX and CQuartz 3.0 UK as stated earlier, and will easily removes Geyon cancoat which was on the wife's run about. It's a fair point about blanket statements I've not tested feynlab or kamikaze, but given the ease in which cquartz wipes off, and also how fast it degraded with 4% auto foam I'd be very surprised if any coating will really stand up to it for long. More important though is give the time, effort and costs involved in coating a car, especially those paying for it, I think most will agree it's not worth risking washing it off.


This is Very hard to believe because BH states that it will not strip your LSP if used with correct PIR %. Maybe it will leave something behind that leads to us think that LSP is gone. At least I have notice that effect with Autofoam. After day or so beading has returned.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

I’m not sure the pH of the foam specifically affects the potential for corrosion but in Jon Forensic’s snow foam review, the alkaline foams didn’t cause mild steel to rust over his test period, whereas the neutral foams did. It’s probably more complicated than that, but BH include corrosion inhibitors. I don’t use Surfex on my coated wheels, they get the same as the paint. I do use it infrequently on my junk wheels but probably not enough to judge corrosion.

I’ve done a few different tests with Fse and contamination now. Side by side, it definitely hugely reduces the need for claying over a 6 month period for example. It doesn’t remove tar or lots of fallout, but with periodic use, the Fse panel will have less of those contaminants. More telling, the paint when clayed, the clay will be very clean compared to the equivalent unFse’d panel and will be much smoother to start with. It’s very effective, but used wisely is beneficial - the benefits outweigh the side effects in my opinion. If used after a ‘preventative’ and suitable drying aid (I find Coat It is useful as it has agreeable properties) then the Fse won’t even remove the drying aid let alone any of the coating. 

Not much is written about Feynlab coatings, but I think they are very good. I’m lucky in that my friend is an accredited installer so I get to see lots of installs and lots of cars in for maintenance washes. They come back consistently good. I am more harsh on mine than is recommended, though saying that Feynlab’s maintenance wash product is definitely stronger than Reset and their waterless/rinseless wash product is also pretty strong. Their maintenance and warranty requirements are pretty relaxed too, though I don’t have a warranty as I am not an accredited installer! If I do balls it up I can get to sort it out at his unit, when there’s space for me to potch for a few hours, which has encouraged me to experiment, but that hasn’t happened yet. They aren’t maybe as massively hydrophobic initially as some, but they maintain that level consistently. Self cleaning perhaps isn’t the best, but it comes off easily enough with a gentle wash. The look is very sealanty and like Zaino, which I have always been a fan of.

One last point. I had GTechniq C1 on the car before the Feynlab. I’m pretty sure that C1 is the same product as C5. C1 is very resistant and hard, but quite quickly loses any hydrophobicity, though that doesn’t mean that the coating has gone. It’s really good against things like bird poo, and is very resistant to etching. C5 I would say is the same product.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

roscopervis said:


> I'm not sure the pH of the foam specifically affects the potential for corrosion but in Jon Forensic's snow foam review, the alkaline foams didn't cause mild steel to rust over his test period, whereas the neutral foams did. It's probably more complicated than that, but BH include corrosion inhibitors. I don't use Surfex on my coated wheels, they get the same as the paint. I do use it infrequently on my junk wheels but probably not enough to judge corrosion.
> 
> I've done a few different tests with Fse and contamination now. Side by side, it definitely hugely reduces the need for claying over a 6 month period for example. It doesn't remove tar or lots of fallout, but with periodic use, the Fse panel will have less of those contaminants. More telling, the paint when clayed, the clay will be very clean compared to the equivalent unFse'd panel and will be much smoother to start with. It's very effective, but used wisely is beneficial - the benefits outweigh the side effects in my opinion. If used after a 'preventative' and suitable drying aid (I find Coat It is useful as it has agreeable properties) then the Fse won't even remove the drying aid let alone any of the coating.
> 
> ...


It is a very interesting discussion to be fair.

Since learning just how potent Auto Foam is, on my own cars I'd use it at nowhere near 4% PIR, closer to 1%. I've experienced the same ability to strip certain products.. BSD is almost completely stripped, it degrades Cosmic Spritz by about 25% each time which was a real frustration as this forced me to top it every second or third wash.. as fun as it is to use, I don't like touching the paint full stop.

To Danny's earlier point, Cosmic is a better 'wearing' product than Reload - I was only ever able to see a panel ever reach the sheeting stage in the areas I'd polished off my coating to correct scratches. I.e. topper failure didn't mask the coated areas, which is quite a unique characteristic based on my testing - perhaps this is the result of chemical degradation rather than real world wear...

What I will say is that Cancoat does deal with Auto Foam for a good amount of time - that's why I've no issues recommending it. I will post a photo of my mum's car, hit with Auto Foam each week without any toppers and 6 months on it is still working at c. 80%. It loses that super hydrophobicity after a couple of hits but it maintains a fairly consistent level after that.

I have been a little spooked by FSe to be honest. Like you I'm limiting it to a periodic decon wash where the car fails the plastic bag test, probably limit my use of Auto Foam to these too.

I have seen multiple posts suggesting that C1 and C5 are similar if not the same. C5's non-stick characteristics are definitely still present after it loses it's hydrophobicity - I found the same with CSL, definitely robust products. I end up topping C5 to give a bit more bling and hydrophobicity. My wife's Revolve X coated alloys put the water behaviour of C5 to shame!


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

When I can find a spare few hours I think I need to do a decent investigation of Autofoam’s potential to strip LSP’s at 4% and 1% against a ph neutral snow foam at it’s recommended dilution. How many hits will it take?

Problem is that I don’t have a ceramic coating to hand currently as I have used what I had a while ago and haven’t bothered to replenish due to the above mentioned buddy, Crystal Sealant being as good as it is for me and a massive load of existing LSP’s I’ve never got round to trying properly. I’m sure I can construct a field of 4-6 products to represent a decently broad mix. 

C5/C1 (and even C4 according to some) are all the same. I’ve never used C4 so I don’t know about that, but C1 and C5 are both based on quartz and exhibit the same characteristics. They are tough, but KKD R-evolve is at another level from what I have experienced. I might try and get some to put in the above test....that would be interesting.


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## BRUN (May 13, 2006)

roscopervis said:


> When I can find a spare few hours I think I need to do a decent investigation of Autofoam's potential to strip LSP's at 4% and 1% against a ph neutral snow foam at it's recommended dilution. How many hits will it take?
> 
> Problem is that I don't have a ceramic coating to hand currently as I have used what I had a while ago and haven't bothered to replenish due to the above mentioned buddy, Crystal Sealant being as good as it is for me and a massive load of existing LSP's I've never got round to trying properly. I'm sure I can construct a field of 4-6 products to represent a decently broad mix.
> 
> C5/C1 (and even C4 according to some) are all the same. I've never used C4 so I don't know about that, but C1 and C5 are both based on quartz and exhibit the same characteristics. They are tough, but KKD R-evolve is at another level from what I have experienced. I might try and get some to put in the above test....that would be interesting.


Id be interested if you included Auto Wash in a test, to see whether that I experienced with my CQuartz Lite was because of the Auto Wash, or just Reload failing


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

BRUN said:


> Id be interested if you included Auto Wash in a test, to see whether that I experienced with my CQuartz Lite was because of the Auto Wash, or just Reload failing


Too many variables... Test one thing at a time

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

C5 is just C1 in a different bottle with a different label. GT have confirmed this previously. 

It’s the same with 303; all of their protectants (automotive, marine, regular) are the exact same product just with different labels. 

(This thread is a good read, thanks for all the testing and the time to write them up)


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Any idea would Essence remove one year old CQUK3.0?
I would like apply CQUK+SiC combo to my car.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

sm81 said:


> Any idea would Essence remove one year old CQUK3.0?
> I would like apply CQUK+SiC combo to my car.


I'd suspect it would... if it doesn't compromise the finish you could use a medium pad or microfibre to be absolutely sure.


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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

sm81 said:


> Any idea would Essence remove one year old CQUK3.0?
> I would like apply CQUK+SiC combo to my car.


I guess the best advice would be to do a test section and spray some water on it afterwards.

With a LC orange or rupes yellow i think it would probably remove the coating on a decent polisher.

Many people here would have first hand experience i'd imagine..where are you guys? 

I did polish off carpro UK awhile back on a test panel but i used sonax cutmax.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

noorth said:


> I guess the best advice would be to do a test section and spray some water on it afterwards.
> 
> With a LC orange or rupes yellow i think it would probably remove the coating on a decent polisher.
> 
> ...


The water test will prove nothing as Essence itself will have SIO2 within that will bead.


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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

atbalfour said:


> The water test will prove nothing as Essence itself will have SIO2 within that will bead.


Good point, your right lol

edit: actually a IPA wipedown directly after polishing might work...what do you think?


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