# Zaino Weirdness?!



## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

I mentioned in my Corsa V Zaino thread about the weird foam sticking effect i was getting but no one said anything about it so thought id create a new thread...

The car has seen 3 layers of ZFXd Z2 Pro and has been QD'd with alternating Z6 and Z8 after each wash.

I am using 30ml of SSF in the autobrite lance topped with hot water.

This is happening on both the RR and the Corsa.

The foam is clearly not doing its job of running dirt off the car because its just stuck on the panels :wall:

Some pics...























































Solutions please!


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

isnt it better that it sticks so that the soap can do its job?


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Thats weird, never got anything like that with Z2 Pro before. I wonder if L200 Steve can add anything as he was saying in another thread about weird behaviour with Z-CS.


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## Cliff (Mar 4, 2007)

Looks really weird on the RRS :doublesho 
I will check the next time I wash my e36 that is Zaino'd although I only have a Superspray.


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

steveo3002 said:


> isnt it better that it sticks so that the soap can do its job?


Well i see it that the soap grabs the dirt and encapsulates it, removing it from the paintwork as it falls down the panels.

I thought at 1st i hadnt buffed off properly but surely the numerous washes and wipedowns would have sorted this?


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## A20 LEE (Feb 20, 2007)

I saw that once on the lower panels of my Z2'd Audi. Only happen once, so i'm guessing it was more than likely to do with the ratio's (SSF:Water:Maxi Suds) in the Gilmour.


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## veeduby (Feb 1, 2006)

would the hot water have anything to do with it?
Have you tried cold or warm??


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Pic 1 is exactly what's happening to the Hilux, although the Snow Foam is highlighting where and how the Zaino CS was applied.

The initial foam of original formular snow foam creates a thick rich set of suds that fall quickly from the vehicle, leaving a layer of almost gel like substance stuck to all panels.

Even over Z2 or Z5 the foam was sticking leaving a gel.

I have noticed that the Zaino is not washing clean using just a Snow Foam: Rinse method, infact the lightest of dirt seems to be well bonded to the vehicle after less than a month of application. Most wash routines of a similar nature on the old L200 over numerous waxes and/or sealants saw it rinse almost clean after the second foam. The Zaino looks exactly the same as before washing even after numerous sets of foam.

I don't think that it's the snow foam causing the problem, as I've used three different makes of snow foam through the Gilmour now, by different manufacturers.

This is not something that I was expecting to happen to such a hyped and highly priced product after less than a month. The dirt and dust seems to stick to the paint just as bad (if not worse) than if I'd used a low end soft wax. 

I guess that Zaino isn't the solution that I thought it would be.


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Thats really quite weird Steve as I've never experienced any problems like that with Z2 Pro, the dirt for me does rinse off well and I've not noticed the sticky foam effect either.


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## paddy328 (Mar 4, 2007)

I tried the cs on my mates vx220 and it didnt dry properly. You could see where it had been or not dried properly the next day. It sorted itself out after a quick wash but ive used it only once and it doesnt seem to be the wonder product its meant to be.


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

Neil_S said:


> Thats really quite weird Steve as I've never experienced any problems like that with Z2 Pro, the dirt for me does rinse off well and I've not noticed the sticky foam effect either.


Ditto! Seems odd, maybe its this CS stuff Steve?


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

I wonder if there is some sort of bonding issue going on here, perhaps the environment that some people have applied the product in has affected the bonding of it? Thats just a stab in the dark here, but may explain why some people are experiencing a strange effect and others not...

Interesting to read another side of the reviews on the Zaino here though, I think I'll be sticking to my waxes for just now until I find out what is causing these issues with folks....


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## GlynRS2 (Jan 21, 2006)

I have never had that with Zaino - my experience has been quite the reverse. It gives one of the slickest finishes that dirt just seems to slide off easily  

The only difference could possibly be the CS ?


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Will post up any findings when I foam the car next weekend, the finish with Z-AIO and Z-CS is fantastic, disappointed it didn't dry clear, but no other adverse effects so far.


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

GlynRS2 said:


> I have never had that with Zaino - my experience has been quite the reverse. It gives one of the slickest finishes that dirt just seems to slide off easily
> 
> The only difference could possibly be the CS ?


Im not using the CS so in my case it cant be that 

I agree with Steve about how the dirt doesnt seem affected by repeat foamings, its like the Zaino is holding on to the dirt and the foam.


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## Z06-Goose (Dec 21, 2006)

Have you tried Z7 instead?


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## A20 LEE (Feb 20, 2007)

not sure if its the weather or the CS but i'm not getting along with Z8 at the moment. Having to wipe down with Z6 after applicantion.


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

Z06-Goose said:


> Have you tried Z7 instead?


Nope, its really expensive!

I cant work out why this didnt occur for Neil, maybe to do with temperature and conditions but i dont know


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## squeal (Mar 3, 2006)

i use a pressure washer only to rinse before the z7/z6 treatment-may get slated for that but believe me,zaino only works best with zaino in my experience..however i cannot comment on cs as yet to open it.


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## Stan (Aug 30, 2006)

Had another go you CS today, tried out Z7 in the Gilmour first, it was so hot the roof steamed with the foam on it, never seen that before.
Tried to find some shade but could only get half in, applied the CS with an old washed MF pad & worked it in,13 sprays to do the body & windows, works a treat, love it.
I here Zaino doesnt like humid conditions, it was really hot here but not humid, wonder if this has something to do with CS not working for some, but the foaming must be something in SSF that doesnt agree with Zaino


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

I CS'd the cavalier today and it was humid down here.

And for a product that dries clear it hasnt.

But I rubbed the paint with the palm of my hand and the dried product/smears dissappeared.


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Pictures taken on Sunday lunch just before going to the Cheshire meet -

The Hilux has been prepped right.
The Hilux is wearing both ZFX'd Z2 or ZFX'd Z5 (not that I can tell the difference.)
The Hilux has had both Z6 and Z8 wipedowns.
The Hilux has been washed using Autorae Snow or Autobright Original Snow Foam.
The Hilux has been hand washed three times (using Zaino Z7 as shampoo twice, and Meguiar's Hyper Wash once)
The Hilux has been rinsed using 0ppm water from my aquagleams after every single wash.

The snow foam doesn't seem to work on the Zaino. The bulk of the snow foam seems to fall straight off (due to Zaino's super slickness perhaps???) but leaves like a scummy substance stuck to areas of the bodywork (due to Zaino's slickness perhaps???)
Even using a high pressure rinse, I can't get the Zaino to rinse clean using just the pressure from the hose. The Zaino almost causing the dirt to stick to the paintwork. Most other LSP's that I've used have all allowed free rinsing after snow foam action.

The Hilux after Zaino -









I thought after only a couple of weeks of Zaino ownership that something wasn't quite right. So like all good detailers, I spent a load more cash on some Zaino ClearSeal (How much ££??) I applied over Z6 as per the instructions on the bottle, it did dry clear in the end (I applied the Zaino CS in the shop, which was dry and warm but not humid)

These product seems to cling to dirt even worse than the Z2 or Z5, but even worse, seems to show up slightly under different lighting.

This is highlighted when the vehicle is Snow Foamed - 









My opinion of Zaino after 1 month?

Expensive, very expensive. It does look nice on day of application (or after Z6 or Z8'ing) but seems to attract dust more than most other sealants that I have used.

Doesn't rinse clean like certain other sealants and waxes I've used.

I don't thing that this product will be staying on the Hilux much longer to be honest, which is dissapointing.


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

How I normally find Snow Foam to work (for comparision)

Goes on nice and thick -









Slides off nice and slowly, taking with it any dirt whilst softening the grime -


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

This is a very interesting and honest review of the product Steve and I am at a complete loss to explain to myself what could possibly be causing the effect, though the "sweeping" marks of where the product was applied highlighted clearly by the snow foam is a bit of a shame really... Perhaps I should just stick to my good old waxes for the time being... Very curious effects for sure.


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## Mike_001 (Apr 7, 2007)

Have never experienced sth. like that...... 
I also have Zaino on my daily driver.
Whenever it needs a wash I give it a nice overall spritz with Z-7 (1:20).
(over here we are not allowed to do such excessive foam orgies.....  )
After some minutes it rinses clear perfectly using the pw.


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## Tyler Owen (Apr 30, 2006)

I'm also using Zaino Z5 Pro but never experienced anything like that !!


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

Im experiencing exactly the same factors as Steve, its just not right and i cant think how or why this is happening from a product with such rave reviews.

Also why is it happening to me and Steve and not to Neil or Glyn? :wall: 

I mean i love how it looks, especially after a wash and wipedown but it is expensive and i shouldnt be experiencing this.

I think im going to email the Zaino brothers a link to this thread, i have heard their customer service is top notch so hopefully they have an answer.


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## Stan (Aug 30, 2006)

Have you tried foaming with another product other than the SF's,is it just the newest versions of the snow foams that cause this.
i read Zaino can be fussy about what it plays with,i'm sure Zaino bro's will tell you it works best with Z7, & not tested compatabilty with any SF's.


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## A20 LEE (Feb 20, 2007)

I'm using my AB SSF @ 3cm in the gilmour with 1 cap of maxi suds and the rest water. Works OK but does need to be rinsed with a PW for a touchless wash. With 1cm of SSF i get exactly the same as result as in the pics. Applied a coat of Z5 tonight and the car definately looks better for it so is the Zaino being stripped by a stronger mix (car was still beeding nicely) or is the zaino just weathering for want of a better description.


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## CK888 (Apr 23, 2006)

Very odd foaming trails, maybe it's a dodgy batch of Zainos


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

It's the way that the Zaino doesn't seem to 'let go' of the dirt that's the worst bit. I really thought that by applying the products that I did that I could have an almost touchless wash regime, and hence no swirls. The factory is busy as f*ck, and I really don't have the time to spend on the hilux that I did on the old L200.

We'd got to a stage with our wash regime where by using CG's Citrus Wash as a pre soak when it was cut 10:1, followed by a foam with Snow Foam through the Gilmour would get nearly every detail clean. Some dirtier vehicles needed 2 goes with the snow foam, but we had got to a stage where we didn't really need to mitt every wash.

I'll try and get some pics up next time that I wash the Hilux in daylight, but no matter how long is spent with the foam / rinse technique, the Hilux stays just as dirty as when we first started.

I don't think that the Zaino was a dodgy bottle either. It's got both Z2 and Z5 on different areas, and CS down one side. They all don't seem to wash clean pretty much the same.

I know that Deej is having similar problems, but we also spoke with another Zaino user on Sunday who was having exactly the same problems.

It'd be good to hear whether any other Zaino users have suffered the same.

Dave KG - I hope you're going to let your mate dip into your 'huuuuge' 'nuba box next time we meet. I might let you try and finally convert me to the way of the wax now mate :thumb:


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

L200 Steve said:


> Dave KG - I hope you're going to let your mate dip into your 'huuuuge' 'nuba box next time we meet. I might let you try and finally convert me to the way of the wax now mate :thumb:


You know you're more than welcome to dip into my 'nuba collection Steve! The Zymol range is what springs immediately to my mind for your needs, as water just fies off of Zymol waxes and Bryan's son had Concours on his Civic and Bryan tells me only very rarely did a mitt need to touch the car to get it clean. I'll bring some Concours down to Nottingham with me, as I know you're going too. :thumb:


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Stan said:


> ... but the foaming must be something in SSF that doesnt agree with Zaino..


I use SSF, infact I've used old generation and new generation SSF with absolutely no problems with Zaino.


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

L200 Steve said:


> Pictures taken on Sunday lunch just before going to the Cheshire meet -
> 
> The Hilux has been prepped right.
> The Hilux is wearing both ZFX'd Z2 or ZFX'd Z5 (not that I can tell the difference.)
> ...


Very disappointing mate  Can't say I have ever seen that before.


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

deej said:


> Im experiencing exactly the same factors as Steve, its just not right and i cant think how or why this is happening from a product with such rave reviews.
> 
> Also why is it happening to me and Steve and not to Neil or Glyn? :wall:
> 
> ...


This is so very weird, never seen anything like it before, never experienced that myself, infact I find the complete opposite. Zaino for me really resists dirt, infact after a few weeks of application a bit of bird muck slid right off the car which amazed me.

It has always rinsed cleanly for me.

I'd email [email protected]


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Neil_S said:


> This is so very weird, never seen anything like it before, never experienced that myself, infact I find the complete opposite. Zaino for me really resists dirt, infact after a few weeks of application a bit of bird muck slid right off the car which amazed me.
> 
> It has always rinsed cleanly for me.
> 
> I'd email [email protected]


Hows you car been with the Z-CS?

Or have you stripped it already lol


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## Stan (Aug 30, 2006)

Very weird, why would it be fine for some & not others weird, thought there must be a simple answer but doesnt look like it, is it only the SSF's that cause this.


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Alex L said:


> Hows you car been with the Z-CS?
> 
> Or have you stripped it already lol


The test will be this weekend! See if I can induce similar behaviour as shown in this thread.

Never experienced problems with Z2 or Z5 Pro.


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Neil_S said:


> This is so very weird, never seen anything like it before, never experienced that myself, infact I find the complete opposite. Zaino for me really resists dirt, infact after a few weeks of application a bit of bird muck slid right off the car which amazed me.
> 
> It has always rinsed cleanly for me.
> 
> I'd email [email protected]


It's really weird, it's like the Zaino is absorbing the dirt, instead of stopping it from bonding to the paintwork.

The Snow foam demonstrates this this. The snow foam slides quite freely from the paintwork, but... it leaves behind a 'scummy' substance bonded to the paintwork. Rinse this scummy substance off, yet the dirts still there.

It's not end of the world though, it's only a bottle of wax after all.

Hey ho, back to the drawing board....:thumb:


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

L200 Steve said:


> It's really weird, it's like the Zaino is absorbing the dirt, instead of stopping it from bonding to the paintwork.
> 
> The Snow foam demonstrates this this. The snow foam slides quite freely from the paintwork, but... it leaves behind a 'scummy' substance bonded to the paintwork. Rinse this scummy substance off, yet the dirts still there.
> 
> ...


Your right mate, I hate having an unanswered question so it'd be nice to know whats going on just to satisfy myself.


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## P.M.V.Gavin (Feb 21, 2007)

thats mad


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Thinking about this, it looks rather like the snow foam is reacting in some way with the sealent, forming a scummy layer which is then becoming stuck to the paint and the dirt is then stuck with it...? Just a thought, no idea what kind of reaction this could be or why it is hap[pening but it looks like thats what may be going on. But this doesn't explain why its only happening on some cars unless it happens to be a paint dependant effect?!  VAG cars (Glyn and NeilS) seem to be fine, Toyota and RR not. Hmmm.

Would love to see this answered to understand whats going on here as Zaino has all the makings of a sealent with the looks to convert even the hardest wax fan to sort of liking a sealent..  .. But this issue would need to be resolved before it ventured anywhere near my own car.


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Dave KG said:


> Thinking about this, it looks rather like the snow foam is reacting in some way with the sealent, forming a scummy layer which is then becoming stuck to the paint and the dirt is then stuck with it...? Just a thought, no idea what kind of reaction this could be or why it is hap[pening but it looks like thats what may be going on. But this doesn't explain why its only happening on some cars unless it happens to be a paint dependant effect?!  VAG cars (Glyn and NeilS) seem to be fine, Toyota and RR not. Hmmm.
> 
> Would love to see this answered to understand whats going on here as Zaino has all the makings of a sealent with the looks to convert even the hardest wax fan to sort of liking a sealent..  .. But this issue would need to be resolved before it ventured anywhere near my own car.


The Zaino seems to strip a scummy residue from the snow foam suds Dave. This wouldn't be a bad thing if the scummy residue left behind was 'active'. This would then continue to work on cleaning any dirt from the bodywork.

I too can't understand why I'm seeing such contrasting opinion and results on the Zaino. I don't think that it's a problem with a part of my wash procedure, as a couple of others cars that we've washed at the same time as my Hilux have come up squeaky clean after rinse, and without any mitt agitation. My Hilux on the other hand seems to look ok only till it fully drys.

A real puzzler???


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

*Zaino CS working perfectly*

In a sense I am disappointed that I didn't encounter problems found by other members as I'd really really like to get to the bottom of the problems.

I have literally just washed the car and found absolutely no problems at all. I foamed the car with old generation SSF (250ml then top up with warm water) through the autobrite lance.

Dwell for about 3 minutes then rinse with the pressure washer.

The car had a thick layer of grime on it, looked like it had rained with dirty air and the car was covered in a sandy grime. The foam took all that dirt off without a problem.

I did a mitt wash to see if the surface felt weird or to see if I could detect anything different. I couldn't, the rinse bucket afterwards was extremely clean. I'd say the foam alone took 95% of the dirt off.

I rinsed with filtered water and the Zaino was behaving exactly as I am used to, the water just sheeted off.

All in all the only disappointment I have with CS is that it did not dry clear, but I am wondered if I applied too much and can perfect the application.

For me it gives a finish very similar to Z2 and Z5 Pro and I am pleased.

*Foam*





































*Rinse foam and the results...*





































*Rinse with filtered water after mitt wash...*


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Are you going to the Nottingham meet Neil?

I'm a bit envious of the success that you've had with the Zaino, kind of makes me want to persevere with it to see if I can get to the bottom of the problems I and others have encountered.

I washed the Hilux today - 500 miles of dusty fly caked paintwork. Using old formular Super Snow Foam through the Gilour at 128:1, with no other shampoo added to the mix. Instead of applying the foam (that's a lot thicker through my Gilmour than it is through an AB lance, but also a lot wetter) and leaving to dwell, I continued applying the SSF for a period of at least 5 minutes. The result - Instead of letting the SSF fall too quickly off the Zaino, by constant re-applying I found that I could get some level of acceptable dwell.

I could still see where the Zaino CS had been (probably too thickly) applied, as the SSF reacted differently in these areas.

I changed the rinse pattern used to remove the SSF to a much higher pressured jet.

I'm a little (just a touch) happier with the wash action from using this method. It seems that by forcing the snow foam to sit on the paint through heavy application that at least some of the dirt was loosened.

It's still a million miles off a true mittless wash, but is a little more acceptable than it has in the past, it actually looks like the Hilux has had a wash for the first time today without me having to crack out the buckets and shMITT's.

Thank's for sticking with this Neil:wave:


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

L200 Steve said:


> Are you going to the Nottingham meet Neil?
> 
> I'm a bit envious of the success that you've had with the Zaino, kind of makes me want to persevere with it to see if I can get to the bottom of the problems I and others have encountered.
> 
> ...


I am going to try and make it yes, I'll bring all my Zaino kit with me too.

When I applied CS I could clearly see where I had applied it, but I then followed this with a full Z8 wipedown and the finish was then perfect.

I have a feeling that if I didn't do the Z8 wipedown, I may have been able to see where I had applied it.


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

As an add on to the CS debate

Most of the holograms have now dissapeared from my car (perhaps it just took longer to dry?)

The car has not yet been washed but still has that zaino 'as new' look, two people ahve commented how shiny it is yet it hasn't been washed in a week!!


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Brazo said:


> As an add on to the CS debate
> 
> Most of the holograms have now dissapeared from my car (perhaps it just took longer to dry?)
> 
> The car has not yet been washed but still has that zaino 'as new' look, two people ahve commented how shiny it is yet it hasn't been washed in a week!!


How odd, I guess it has cured then, perhaps certain weather conditions slotted into place to give the ideal conditions for it to cure?


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## GlynRS2 (Jan 21, 2006)

My wife's Golf is still look amazing with the Zaino CS on top of Jetseal 109. The sort of finish that stands out a mile in a line of cars parked at the side of the road, even when it has not been washed for a week. I had no problems what so ever in washing it, foam and water just sheeted off as one would expect.
I did find you could put it on very thinly, and once the applicator was damp, it went a very long way. I applied it on a very dry day with low humidity and had no problems with it drying whatsoever. Maybe the not drying clear may be due to either it going on a tad thick, high humidity (which we have had in the last couple of weeks) or a combination of a bit of both.
I am at a complete loss to explain Steve's problems that somehow seem to be a chemical reaction between the Zaino & the foam


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

GlynRS2 said:


> My wife's Golf is still look amazing with the Zaino CS on top of Jetseal 109. The sort of finish that stands out a mile in a line of cars parked at the side of the road, even when it has not been washed for a week. I had no problems what so ever in washing it, foam and water just sheeted off as one would expect.
> I did find you could put it on very thinly, and once the applicator was damp, it went a very long way. I applied it on a very dry day with low humidity and had no problems with it drying whatsoever. Maybe the not drying clear may be due to either it going on a tad thick, high humidity (which we have had in the last couple of weeks) or a combination of a bit of both.
> I am at a complete loss to explain Steve's problems that somehow seem to be a chemical reaction between the Zaino & the foam


Its great to hear you got it to dry clear :thumb:

The thing is with the Zaino is you use so little and then realise you used too much! I start wondering just how little I can get away with, Z-AIO for instance, the whole car in about 10ml and in areas it was spread too thickly.


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

Im really jealous of Neil TBH, that looks exactly like how the foam behaves on the waxed areas of my car :wall: 

I think il make the trip over to the Nottingham meet too, just to try and get this sorted and discus the variables.

1 thing i have noticed is that fly mess on the front of the cars just seems really stubborn because the foam is not getting a chance to dwell and soften it so they need agitating with a mitt.


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Very weird indeed, I found the flies to come off very easily.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

May be its Northern air causing the problem!!!!!


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

did you get your stuff from the same vendor? maybe a duff batch?


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

My Z2, Z5, ZFX, Z6 and Z8 were from Advanced car care who used to be approved on here

The Z-AIO and Z-CS from Pro detailing.


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## GlynRS2 (Jan 21, 2006)

Neil_S said:


> My Z2, Z5, ZFX, Z6 and Z8 were from Advanced car care who used to be approved on here
> 
> The Z-AIO and Z-CS from Pro detailing.


Same here


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

GlynRS2 said:


> Same here


Same here, apart from I didn't get any Z-AIO.

Epoch's answer looks the most plausible at the moment:lol:


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

I got Z2, Z6, Z8 and ZFX from Pro Detailing.

The thing about conditions is that i put the Zaino on the RR inside a warehouse, pretty overcast dull weather and on the Corsa in really hot weather outdoors. 

So 2 totally different environments and the same results


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

anyone emailed sal zaino and asked what he thinks?


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

steveo3002 said:


> anyone emailed sal zaino and asked what he thinks?


Yeah i did yesterday but no reply yet, linked him to the thread too.


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

We have a reply from Sal...

*** Seems like a reaction with the car wash you are using... Sometimes surfactants and possibly salts used in other car washes can leave a detergent film on Zaino.

Did you try Z-7 Car Wash in the foam gun????

Please Call me... at *********** and I'll gladly help you out...

Best time to reach me is Monday, Tuesday & Thursday between 8:30 & 11:30AM***

For Steve (linked from FAQs on Zaino site)...

***Question. When I apply Z-CS, it looks very strange. Like, psychedelic. 
Is this normal?

Answer. Yes. This is normal, allow the product to dry. As Z-CS is 
applied and begins to dry, the optical effects may make the surface 
areas appear prismatic or rainbow like. This is normal. Do not remove, 
please allow Z-CS to dry and do it's work.

Question. I applied Z-CS on my black Corvette and it took a long time 
to dry. When I thought Z-CS finally dried, it still looked hazy. Does 
this mean I applied too much? Or am I just being impatient?

Answer. Yes. You probably applied WAY WAY too much Z-CS which can take 
much longer to dry. Remember to always use Z-CS very sparingly. We can 
apply Z-CS to your entire Corvette in about 10 sprays. Please wipe down 
the EXCESS Z-CS with Z-6 (or a damp soft towel if you don't have Z-6) 
and the shine will come through. ***

Still, there is no definate answer as i have no Z7 to try through the lance, do you Steve? Also i have no idea when to ring with the different times etc...


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

think theyre about 5 hrs behind us , so evening would be cool


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

I too noted this phenomonononon (sorry, never know went to stop ) today, btw Zaino Z7 can be used fine through the foam gun!


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

Brazo said:


> I too noted this phenomonononon (sorry, never know went to stop ) today, btw Zaino Z7 can be used fine through the foam gun!


Was that with CS or Z2/Z5 Brazo?

Did the Z7 stop the phenomonononononon happening?


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2007)

Z7 is the nuts!!!!!!!!


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

Miracle said:


> Z7 is the nuts!!!!!!!!


Ever seen anything like this or have any ideas Paul?


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

deej said:


> Was that with CS or Z2/Z5 Brazo?
> 
> Did the Z7 stop the phenomonononononon happening?


Tonight I used snow foam and the car had cs on it, tbh it was more of a problem on the windows

Z7 the zaino shampoo works great in a foam gun, I did some pics last feb of it, although that was over z2pro


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2007)

deej said:


> Ever seen anything like this or have any ideas Paul?


It could be a number of things..

One of them Sal's already mentioned...


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

*Ok - my current take on the Zaino weirdness.*

The snow foam used to pre soak the vehicle with when used through my gilmour gun is a thick suds heavy solution. The idea being that it not only softens and loosens any dirt bonded to the vehicle, but actually drags any looser dirt particles from the vehicle as it rolls down from the paint work.

The Zaino is causing too little surface friction for the snow foam to bond to, so instead of it rolling from the paintwork, it slides off rather easily, and much too quickly. It leaves behind some surfacants from the snow foam, which wouldn't normally be visible as the bulk of the snow foam would be hiding this / dragging this off with itself.

Deej - Have a look at thinning down your snow foam mix in your AB gun mate, and see if that makes any difference. If the foam solution can run down your paintwork in preference to letting it slide down and see if this makes a difference.

*Do I have Zaino Z7?*

Yes I have the Z7 wash shampoo, which I'm a little loath to add to the snow foam mix in the Gilmour (it's too expensive, much too expensive) In all fairness, I don't think that adding this shampoo to the mix would make much difference, as it'd still be sliding too easily from the paintwork.

*What am I going to do as a solution till I get time to remove the Zaino and replace with another LSP?*

I've found that by applying multiple coats of snow foam from the gilmour, that I can keep some body of foam adhered to the paintwork of my vehicle for long enough for the snow foam to get chance to do some work. This is obviously either doubling or tripling the amount of snow foam that I'm using as part of the wash, but this does seem to be a method that works.

*Did I apply the Zaino CS too thickly?*

In my honest opinion no. I honestly believe if anything, that I applied it a little too thin. The applicator was almost dry and didn't seem to slide across the paintwork as I've found whilst applying other LSP's. I peersonally found this to be not to my liking, preferring all applicators to be lubricated when swiped across my paintwork. If you have to apply it thinner than I did, then sorry, this product isn't for me.

*The future -*

I don't find Zaino to keep it's slickness as long as I thought that it would. Yes it is easy to top up the Zaino with a Z6 or Z8 wipedown after every wash, but I may as well start adding layers of wax if I'm going to do that. Plus I feel that by applying a 'sealant' over the top of any contaminant on my paintwork, that I'm only going to be trapping that contaminant in. I did do the whole wash / decon / clay / polish / IPA etc procedure before first applying the Zaino in the first instance for a reason, and would prefer not to let that prep go to waste by applying Z6 or Z8 over anything that may be bonded to my paint.

To be honest, I don't think that the Zaino is the long life sealant solution that I thought that it would be when investing. Yes it's great if you wash your car every couple of days (but to be honest, a lot lesser priced LSP's will clean up as good after only a couple of days from detail - Even Megs Gold Class :lol: ) I did think that by applying the Zaino to the Hilux that I could spend more of the summer enjoying the scene, in preference to spending my weekends prepping my vehicle. I guess I'll have to roll back up my sleeves and keep looking.

It's only wax after all:thumb:


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## Mike_001 (Apr 7, 2007)

L200 Steve said:


> which I'm a little loath to add to the snow foam mix in the Gilmour (it's too expensive, much too expensive) In all fairness, I don't think that adding this shampoo to the mix would make much difference, as it'd still be sliding too easily from the paintwork.


You never know before you try..... :wave: 
And tbh Z-7 isn't THAT expensive, or is it? 
Only £7 a bottle. Should be well worth it IMO.


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## Arousa (Jun 13, 2006)

That is very interesting. Seems like the snow foams is gelled. I too think its a chemical reaction between the 2 products. 

Has anyone looked at the MSDS sheets to see what the products contain?


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## Pro-detailing (Jul 6, 2006)

As your suppliers in many cases. I should put my opinion on the table.

The first thing to say is that Zaino is a system. All the products are compatible and Z-7 is the car wash for the system.

@L200Steve: I have a huge ammount of respect for you Steve, you clearly know what you're talking about. I agree with a lot of what you say, especially the comments about the paint is too slick to allow your foam to stay put!

Simply put, If a user deviates from what Sal recommends for his system, I don't see, that there's a reason to be annoyed at the results.

Zaino is a system which undergoes massive trials before release to ensure it's reliable and new products are compatible.

If you apply a product which hasn't been tested for compatibility with Zaino and it you get strange effects that's no reason to blame the Zaino. I agree that there are many other products you could use for foaming which in the most part are cheaper but if you are using something which Zaino is not designed to be used with because it's more economical than Z-7.......

If Z-7 was used, I'm sure that the foam would slip-off just as easily, however, I'd be surprised if the residue aspect of it remained.

My advise would be to stick with what Sal recommends; he doesn't release things for the sake of it and I have found that following his advice as the manufacturer gives the best results. Using products whose compatibility is unknown will ieventually give strange results as often as it works beautifully.

*Please don't think I'm on here defening Zaino to death, or more importantly Steve that I am attacking you for stating your observations!!*

I sought really to make a point which, until now, I don't think has been made clearly: That is, not everything is compatible with everything. Foaming is a valuable stage in maintainance washing etc and it would appear that in this case there are issues. However, this doesn't change the fact that in my opinion Zaino is head and shoulders above everything else in terms of durability and results. Many others agree with me. Zaino isn't cheap, but if the cost was the only consideration, Personally I'd be down my local Tescos buying their own brand car care products at 2 for £2.

All the best - Nick.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2007)

Couldn't of put it better myself.


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## c76jon (Dec 30, 2006)

I too find this discussion somewhat bemusing

I have been using CS since one week after its US release

IMHO its amazing but it isnt the easiest thing to use.By this i mean you have to follow the given instructions to the letter.

Comments regarding the product not drying correctly are simply to do with incorrect application ie far too much

i can mist an e46 m3 csl with 7-8 pumps of the bottle.That is the whole car.

You need to use very very little.period.

With reference to the snow foam running of the panels iam confused.
CS makes the surface ultra slick especially after a misting of z8 say 24 hours later.Surely thats the ultimate goal......

Time and time again iam asked about zaino and how to apply it as zaino to some is a major task first time it is used as products and techniques etc can be quite confusing but two things i always always point out are

1 LESS IS BEST the thinner the application the far better the results

2 DO NOT CROSS CONTAMINATE OTHER MANUFACTURERS PRODUCTS as zaino, as has already been said, is a system and zaino loves clean clean paint and itself .Anything else is not part of the master plan .


There are very detailed instructions on Sals site informing how and when to use his products .

It is massively unfair to suggest a product is bad when you are applying god knows what on top of it which may well cause a reaction .Z7 was designed and researched for the range.This is the system car wash.
had there been problems after application of z7 then maybe cause for concern.But its another product not known to zaino which you asking the zaino to like.Quite clearly it doesnt .

CS is a top notch product.It does exactly what it says on the tin IF it is used as specified.

I have found that you have to resist the "i dont think ive quite got enough on there" and continue to apply very very sparingly.If this is done the CS is drying almost straight away to leave mark free ultra slick finish

I just think its important to point out to readers of this forum that as has been said ZAINO is a system and for totally stunning results you have to follow it

Deviate from it and do so at your risk as has been shown here.

CS is not at fault.

Steve quite obviously knows his onions and is well regarded.Maybe a test using Z7 is in order to compare the snow foam reults .

Iam happy to send enough for a couple of washes.

no offence intended just my observations from my experience of using what imho are the best products available over the last 5 years plus and having had countless show car success.

jon


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2007)

Zaino is one of my favourite products, I have loads of it, c76jon is right, application technique is extremely important, I have used it on a friends car and 4 layers has lasted 12months on a 4x4, but then I haven't been using snow foam on it, I personally wouldn't use snow foam on either of my vehicles. You need to stick to the shampoo which is intended for the protection system your using, if you start using other products expect to get some strange results.... specially with a foam gun.

Zaino's car wash is one of the best i have used and smells beautiful...

If someone said what is my favourite shampoo, it would be Z7 without a doubt!!!!!!


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## russell hayward (Apr 13, 2006)

Being in the chemical business I found this thread very interesting and was thinking to myself from page one that there is some sort of incompatibility with the foam causing a reaction.

We see strange things happening to the electrophoretic product we make sometimes, usually because the end user has strayed from the recommended process. Often this produces a negative effect, sometimes a positive one. It's not an exact science.

We can try 3 or 4 types or more of the same type of chemical in our "brews" before we find one that is happy and works well with the others. It really is a process of trial and error. 

I guess the same applies here.


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

Miracle said:


> Zaino's car wash is one of the best i have used and smells beautiful...
> 
> If someone said what is my favourite shampoo, it would be Z7 without a doubt!!!!!!


I agree... used Z7 myself on a customers car that was treated with Zaino ZFX system eight weeks ago and its superb stuff :thumb:

I'm actually considering dumping all my swissvaux kit now in favour of the full Zaino range as I really do like it (already have half the range) - sorry to hear your having problems Steve.

Scott.


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## A20 LEE (Feb 20, 2007)

Can Z7 be used as a foam through a lance to good effect?


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

A20 LEE said:


> Can Z7 be used as a foam through a lance to good effect?


Yes :thumb:


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## drive 'n' shine (Apr 22, 2006)

A20 LEE said:


> Can Z7 be used as a foam through a lance to good effect?


Works well through Gilmour and Foam Lance :thumb:

Through gilly


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

What about trying the Duragloss shampoo, as people have said thats as good as Z7??


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

Fair play to whats been said, but Z7 is expensive, 16oz is more expensive than 5 litres of SSF.  

Im sure if any of you experienced the same foam effect then youd post it up and have a similar reaction. I mean, how many people are using a foam pre wash as part of their wash routine? i bet its more than 50% of the people on the site.

Im not disputing that the system works and looks good but i feel justified in being annoyed/dismayed that the foam isnt allowed to do its thing.

Maybe il try some Z7 soon.


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## c76jon (Dec 30, 2006)

But zaino is designed to work with ....................zaino

criticism cannot be aimed at the products for them not doing something that was never claimed in the first place??

you are complaining that the foam runs off the panels too quickly??

that the surface is too slick to allow the foam to hang??

xbox360 games are never going towork in a psx3 .they are same shape and size .but neither system was designed to run the other.would i be justified in being annoyed that it didnt work??

jon


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Jon,

I think the point some people are trying to make is that many people have had no problems with using snow foams.

I understand the point your trying to make, but afaik Steve and Deej (sorry i cant be bothered to check if theres anymore) are the only ones having this problem.

Only thing I can put it down to is the water??


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

c76jon said:


> But zaino is designed to work with ....................zaino
> 
> criticism cannot be aimed at the products for them not doing something that was never claimed in the first place??
> 
> ...


Im complaining that the foam is sticking to the panels in certain areas, look at the pics on the 1st page.

As Alex says, why is it only me and Steve experiencing this? Perhaps you could try some SSF?

I know what your saying but if i used Zymol for example, as i have on the front of the Corsa i can still use SSF as a pre wash to make the wash easier and safer.

Im merely making an observation of the product, it doesnt claim to do it but then i wouldnt expect it to say "works with BRAND X's shampoo" on the bottle would i.


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## drive 'n' shine (Apr 22, 2006)

Alex L said:


> What about trying the Duragloss shampoo, as people have said thats as good as Z7??


:thumb: Well said, it is a very good shampoo, L200 Steve drop me a PM and i'll get some DG 901 sent up to you see if that works


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Firstly, I do hope that everything that I write with regards to my findings of Zaino come across without me appearing to be a 'Zaino hater'. Believe me, if I 'hate' a product, we normally either straight bin it, or I post it to Alex L.

I'm really trying to state that my findings of the Zaino system are leading me to believe that this is not the LSP system for me. It doesn't do what I need it to do, or what I believed that it would do at time of purchase.

I've got other long life sealants available, I've a whole garage full of Dimaondbrite kits that we've been applying to customers cars with great effect for the last 9 months (looks great, 100% happy customer base, every car that I've revisited has kept it's just sealed look) I've also got a garage full of just about every car detailing product available. There aren't many products that I haven't tried.

My criteria for a long life sealant - My vehicle is exposed to industrial fallout. I run a shotblasting and industrial painting company, my vehicles get covered in a fine layer of ferrous dust daily. I want something to form a hard layer barrier between the fallout and my paint. If not protected, the ferrous dust eats through the paint in a matter of weeks (I know that those who got to see my L200's paint close up will confirm this)

My choice for Zaino - With the arrival of my new Hilux, I wanted to put the best possible layer of protection onto the paint. If the vehicle wasn't parked where it is every day, I'd have bought a tub of Vintage off Johnny, money was never a factor in choice of LSP. I choose what I'd read was the 'number one' sealant, a product that people had told me would last longer than diamondbrite, but look untold times better.

So I purchased and applied Zaino. I think that I applied it right, I thing that my prep would have made Sal happy.

The first day of application, the vehicle looked great, I really thought that I was onto a winner. The next two weeks after aplication though, and the weather did nothing but rain. Jon and I made the trip down to C&S in the Hilux, in some of the worst rain I've seen for a while. Even though the hilux had done a lot of 'dirty' miles, it only looked a little grubby, a layer of dirt that I felt should rinse almost straight off with the minimum of effort. This was my first finding, it didn't want to rinse clean.

I chose Zaino, due to reading the reports that this product rinsed almost clean with almost zero agitation. That's what I need from and LSP more than anything else. With the sharp industrial fallout that lands on my vehicle, the last thing that I am prepared to do is swirl the paint up by touching the paint with anything if at all possible. I'm suprised that certain people don't see the benefit from foaming, of all the detailing procedures that I've used this foaming procedure has helped me maintain the highest level of finish by removing any grit etc from my paint before a mitt or sponge touches the paint, and I'm therefore not dragging sh*te around causing swirls. I also find the snow foam to be very LSP friendly, a lot more LSP friendly than some of the total autowash type products used as pre wash soak. 

Back to Zaino.

When handwashing after foaming, I 've used ( and will use while the Zaino is still on) Zaino Z7 shampoo in the buckets. I find this to be a nice shampoo for handwashing. I also know that it foams nicely (I pinched some off Brazo 2 years ago to carry out some foam gun tests with), but don't find that this is an effective cleaner when run through a foam gun. I also know that it's expensive when compared to other shampoo's, but if that's what's needed for handwashig, then so be it. 

I must admit that I was ready to put this one to bed and move on till the renewed interest in this thread, and all of the pro Zaino 'fan boy' comments. I really don't think that a product such as Zaino should be effected by foam washing with any product other than Z7. Think about it, the snow foams a mild cleaner, a lot milder than a lot of other pre wash soak products, and a hell of a lot milder than the contaminant that our vehicles are bombarded with on a daily basis (diesel fumes, bird lime etc etc) I really don't think that the use of snow foam should be looked at as a possible cause of the zaino problem. I just think that we all need to remember that different people with different enviroments will get different life spans from LSP's. Just because Mr A gets 12 months from an LSP, doesn't mean that you will. I know a few folk who claim to get 12 months from Collinite, yet I know that I'm not the only person who sees it fail in under a month?

If Zaino's a system where you can only use Zaino products from there on in, then sorry, it's not a system for me until Zaino fetch out a foaming product to prewash the vehicle with prior to using a mitt wash. 

If Zaino's a system that only keeps it's look whilst you maintain the finish after each wash with Z6 or Z8, then again, it's not a system for me. I really don't want to have to touch the vehicle with MF's after every wash, kind of negates my purchase of water filters etc.

To those who have found what they are looking for in Zaino, cool. Me? I'm still looking for my holy grail of LSP's, my search is still on, for the above reasons.

Deej - Till I get chance to move on with LSP's, I'll be playing a bit more with wash techniques and products to try and get the best from what I've already got on. If I make any progress mate, I'll keep you posted:thumb:


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Alex L said:


> Jon,
> 
> I think the point some people are trying to make is that many people have had no problems with using snow foams.
> 
> ...


I've spoken to a couple of others who've had similar experiences as Deej and I Alex.

I just hope that by airing my finidings with this product, something positve will come out of it instead of me just keeping quiet. Hopefully if a few of us can put our thinkin caps on in a constructive way, we'll soon get to the bottom of this:wave:

If not, I'll post you mine down


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

L200 Steve said:


> I've spoken to a couple of others who've had similar experiences as Deej and I Alex.
> 
> I just hope that by airing my finidings with this product, something positve will come out of it instead of me just keeping quiet. Hopefully if a few of us can put our thinkin caps on in a constructive way, we'll soon get to the bottom of this:wave:
> 
> If not, I'll post you mine down


I've still got an unused Z2 + ZFX in the garage, I'm just loving Zymol at the moment and dont want to take it off and find out what the Zaino is like.

It is a very strange problem, maybe the way they were shipped from the US might have done something to them.
Say Neils etc came via boat and the ones you & Deej etc got came via plane and it affected the molecular (sp) structure of them? (sorry, watched Fantastic Four at the weekend   )

So many variables it's hard to know what it is?


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

maybe someones got frozen in shipping?


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

Alex L said:


> I've still got an unused Z2 + ZFX in the garage, I'm just loving Zymol at the moment and dont want to take it off and find out what the Zaino is like.
> 
> It is a very strange problem, maybe the way they were shipped from the US might have done something to them.
> Say Neils etc came via boat and the ones you & Deej etc got came via plane and it affected the molecular (sp) structure of them? (sorry, watched Fantastic Four at the weekend   )
> ...


I suppose its possible that we got a bad batch, but Steve has Z2 and Z5 and both are different formulas  Weird that both of us are up North though.

Im going to stick with the Zaino, water filter should be coming tomorow so il work on the mittless wash and, likewise, keep you updated Steve :thumb:


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

L200 Steve said:


> Believe me, if I 'hate' a product, we normally either straight bin it, or I post it to Alex L.


Am almost in tears laughing at the Alex L comment:thumb:

Am sorry Zaino hasn't worked out for you Steve, I have too noted this strange foam effect with zaino cs and snow foam


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

I have just spent a couple of hours reading all the Zaino posts on the forum.

It sounds like snow foam is not the way to maintain a CS finish to me. TBO I am yet to be convinced of snow foam etc so will get a lance and try some.

Seeing as my local BMW franchise have stripped 5 layers of Swissvax Divine off my car I am going to give the Zaino system a try.

I'll give Nick a call in the morning and look forward to trialing it on my CSL.


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

What seems to have been forgotten here is that I have used Autobrite Super Snow Foam old and new generation and Autorae snow foam on a Zaino Z2 Pro finish for months and months and months and now use SSF on Z-CS and I have never had a problem.

I and Glyn have maintained Zaino finishes with other shampoos and also not had problems, this is what leaves me so bemused by the problems Steve has been having.

I don't think Z7 will make any difference to Steve, but always worth sticking in a bit in the gilmour and seeing if anything happens, simply to rule it out.


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Miracle said:


> If someone said what is my favourite shampoo, it would be Z7 without a doubt!!!!!!


Paul, if you haven't tried Duragloss 901/902, well worth a look, very similar to Z7 indeed, but IMHO pips Z7 to the post as it leaves a glossier finish, infact the finish is wonderful.:thumb:


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Neil_S said:


> What seems to have been forgotten here is that I have used Autobrite Super Snow Foam old and new generation and Autorae snow foam on a Zaino Z2 Pro finish for months and months and months and now use SSF on Z-CS and I have never had a problem.
> 
> I and Glyn have maintained Zaino finishes with other shampoos and also not had problems, this is what leaves me so bemused by the problems Steve has been having.
> 
> I don't think Z7 will make any difference to Steve, but always worth sticking in a bit in the gilmour and seeing if anything happens, simply to rule it out.


shhh!, I wasnt going to mention the fact you and Glyn have both had months of great results using other brand shampoo's, including snow foam.

I guess my next step has to be the purchase of a AB type foam gun, or at least give someone elses a try first. I do think half my problem is the way in which my gilmour foam reacts with the Zaino.


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

L200 Steve said:


> shhh!, I wasnt going to mention the fact you and Glyn have both had months of great results using other brand shampoo's, including snow foam.
> 
> I guess my next step has to be the purchase of a AB type foam gun, or at least give someone elses a try first. I do think half my problem is the way in which my gilmour foam reacts with the Zaino.


If they have a pressure washer in Notts I don't mind bringing mine along with some SSF, we can test if this produces the same results. :thumb:


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

Could it be anything to do with the fact that both Deej or L200 have black paint ,maybe something in the black paint is reacting with the combo of snowfoam and Zaino


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Neil_S said:


> If they have a pressure washer in Notts I don't mind bringing mine along with some SSF, we can test if this produces the same results. :thumb:


Cheers mate, it'd be great if we could. I'd just like you to get chance to see it first hand, as it is a bit of a weird one.



david g said:


> Could it be anything to do with the fact that both Deej or L200 have black paint ,maybe something in the black paint is reacting with the combo of snowfoam and Zaino


The other guy that we spoke with who was having the same problem with the Zaino was also a black car owner. Buggers


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

The other guy that we spoke with who was having the same problem with the Zaino was also a black car owner. Buggers [/QUOTE]

Was just a thought ,as sometimes Black cars leave streak marks after waxing ,someone told me it was something in the paint that could potentially cause this ,maybe a different chemical of some sort


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Right lets get scientific about this

What day did everybody apply it on?
What time of day?
What were you wearing?
Did anybody see one magpie?
Left or right hand?


Sorry, but more testing will be needed it's got to be something silly!

Would softer northern water, be making the snow foam react more? Since getting the cat ion exchange filter my SSF & MSII Gilmore blanket is now very different!


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

Epoch said:


> Right lets get scientific about this
> 
> What day did everybody apply it on?
> What time of day?
> ...


:lol:


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Epoch said:


> Right lets get scientific about this
> 
> What day did everybody apply it on?
> What time of day?
> ...


:lol:

Only problem I had with Zaino was damp weather and the cold (15c) meant Z2 Pro didn't dry in 4 hours and I had to wipe the damp residue off the car.

Not had a problem since.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Neil_S said:


> :lol:
> 
> Only problem I had with Zaino was damp weather and the cold (15c) meant Z2 Pro didn't dry in 4 hours and I had to wipe the damp residue off the car.
> 
> Not had a problem since.


Damp weather and the cold not a problem up North Neil that will have featured in Deej and Steve's as well


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## Pro-detailing (Jul 6, 2006)

david g said:


> Could it be anything to do with the fact that both Deej or L200 have black paint ,maybe something in the black paint is reacting with the combo of snowfoam and Zaino


I don't see how the colour of the basecoat in a base-clear system could affect the behaviour of the clearcoat. Yes paint is porous to some extent but I would be surprised if component(s) in a layer which was not 'external' was causing it.

Steve, presumedly your Hilux has a base-clear system despite the fact that it's a 'practical/working' vehicle??

I'd be very surprised if Toyota were using 2K-topcoats on anything that's been painted this century..


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## Ant GTI-6 (Nov 30, 2005)

Can Zaino be Polycharged? would this help any?

As reading on one of Steves posts this was done with jetseal, and the curing time was was reduced almost to instant. SO applying this to the Zaino takes out the factor of is the product fully cured.

I understand this shouldnt be necessary, but surly worh a go.


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## A20 LEE (Feb 20, 2007)

Ant GTI-6 said:


> Can Zaino be Polycharged? would this help any?
> 
> As reading on one of Steves posts this was done with jetseal, and the curing time was was reduced almost to instant. SO applying this to the Zaino takes out the factor of is the product fully cured.
> 
> I understand this shouldnt be necessary, but surly worh a go.


Yep, but not if you use ZFX.


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Ant GTI-6 said:


> Can Zaino be Polycharged? would this help any?
> 
> As reading on one of Steves posts this was done with jetseal, and the curing time was was reduced almost to instant. SO applying this to the Zaino takes out the factor of is the product fully cured.
> 
> I understand this shouldnt be necessary, but surly worh a go.


It can yes :thumb:

Although if you read the blurb, polycharger sounds very very similar to ZFX, increases cross linking etc. etc.


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Neil_S said:


> It can yes :thumb:
> 
> Although if you read the blurb, polycharger sounds very very similar to ZFX, increases cross linking etc. etc.


On a sub note Neil - Have you seen the size of the poly charger bottle.

OMG, it's huge compared to the teeny weeny ZFX bottle.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

It might be an idea for you to pop down here Steve and try the Southern water, see if that makes a difference?

I have Concours topped with Z-CS on the MX5 and took it to the jet wash last night, only odd thing I noticed was the car was still covered in water when I got it home to wash, but when it was just Concours it was dry (guess whats getting stripped off and guess whats going back on)


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

L200 Steve said:


> On a sub note Neil - Have you seen the size of the poly charger bottle.
> 
> OMG, it's huge compared to the teeny weeny ZFX bottle.


I have yes, it is gigantic! I think I'll get some eventually but not on the top of my list at the moment, I do wonder how I'll get through it all!


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Alex L said:


> It might be an idea for you to pop down here Steve and try the Southern water, see if that makes a difference?
> 
> I have Concours topped with Z-CS on the MX5 and took it to the jet wash last night, only odd thing I noticed was the car was still covered in water when I got it home to wash, but when it was just Concours it was dry (guess whats getting stripped off and guess whats going back on)


It's funny that because I notice the water sticking until you reach about 40 mph and then it comes off, it does sheet very very nicely when your washing the car however.


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## Wh00sher (Jun 18, 2006)

Just read this entire thread, wow, some weird problems you are having. I`ve used Zaino for years and as I dont want to keep applying stuff to my car, its ideal for me. I dont have a foam lance / gun, so cant even try to replicate the problem, but if I was in Steve`s position, of someone who wanted low-maintenance from a product, I think I`d be changing as this isnt doing what he needs it to do.

Its a shame, as I find the longevity of zaino one of its best points..


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## Pro-detailing (Jul 6, 2006)

Wh00sher said:


> Just read this entire thread, wow, some weird problems you are having. I`ve used Zaino for years and as I dont want to keep applying stuff to my car, its ideal for me. I dont have a foam lance / gun, so cant even try to replicate the problem, but if I was in Steve`s position, of someone who wanted low-maintenance from a product, I think I`d be changing as this isnt doing what he needs it to do.
> 
> Its a shame, as I find the longevity of zaino one of its best points..


Agreed. I hadn't realised how important foaming was to Steve's regime regarding the hard dust etc. I've never said foaming's a bad idea but every now and then something doesn't work out for some reason.


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

david g said:


> Could it be anything to do with the fact that both Deej or L200 have black paint ,maybe something in the black paint is reacting with the combo of snowfoam and Zaino


Its happening on the RR and thats silver.


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

Some observations from today:

The waxed (Dodo Green + Yellow and Zymol Vintage + Concours) areas of my car held much more dirt after 2 foams and rinses than the Zaino'd parts, i could actually see it on the Shmitt whereas the rest of the car had pretty much nothing left on it after the pre washes.

The sticking was still happening but as Steve recommended i tried a thinner blanket of foam and this seemed to help a bit.


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## cj romeo (Jul 12, 2007)

Is seen the patterns you had last on one car of the 2 I was doing, they jetted off without a problem, but I hadnt pre-wet the cars before I foamed like I usually do and I left it on too long.

Both cars have Z2 pro layered over Z5 on them, it happened on a light blue one - the black one had no issues but it had a shorter contact time.


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