# Best Hot Hatch Available??



## potter88 (Apr 12, 2014)

Well early next year I'm taking the plunge on a new car, so I'm starting to get thinking cap on now and start test driving a few with prices/quotes etc. It will be on PCP and I have a budget of £500 a month so will cover everything pretty much.

I popped into Audi yesterday and with a £5k deposit I can get an RS3 for £469 month with 10k year over 48 months. An S3 will be £419 month with same cost of options on both (£2000 as a rough estimate)

My other options are a M140i, Golf R and an Cupra 290

I don't really fancy an RS just because from a personal point of view there a bit on the boy racer side and I'm nearly 30 so I'm after a bit more understated looks.

Just because I can afford an RS3 though I'm not saying that is what I'd defiantly have as maybe if I saved a bit a month I could spend a bit on toys for it etc. 

I'm after a bit of advice if people were heading into the showroom themselves what would they be after??


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

I don't believe there is a "best hot hatch" - it depends what you are looking for - one persons best vehicle will be the next persons worst nightmare

I have recently taken delivery of an M135i and I like it - many don't like it at all. I wanted understated and specifically refinement and a challenge - the M135i offered the best package for me and was very affordable


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Have you driven the RS3 yet? I'd make sure you have a proper drive before you do, as they are a dull drive. It's fast, has a nice engine but just isn't engaging to drive. 

I think there's a facelift due, so hopefully that will improve the car. 

The M140i is a performance bargain. You get so much car for the money if you get a good deal. 

The A45 is a good car too. It's a grown ups hot hatch.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

I don't think the RS3 is a boy racer looking car, it's quite the opposite and it's rather understated.


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## potter88 (Apr 12, 2014)

Soul boy 68 said:


> I don't think the RS3 is a boy racer looking car, it's quite the opposite and it's rather understated.


Sorry I meant the Focus RS


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

potter88 said:


> Sorry I meant the Focus RS


Now that makes sense, take a look at the M235i coupe nothing boy racer about that, it's a very highly rated car indeed with bags of performance and with amounts of decent practicality.


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## potter88 (Apr 12, 2014)

Kerr said:


> Have you driven the RS3 yet? I'd make sure you have a proper drive before you do, as they are a dull drive. It's fast, has a nice engine but just isn't engaging to drive.
> 
> I think there's a facelift due, so hopefully that will improve the car.
> 
> ...


The A45 I'm not overly keen on just because of the interior I'm not overly keen mainly. It's because of the Screen mainly and it looks like a Le it was forgotten about so Merc just decided to stick an iPad on middle of dash

The RS3 and all other A3/S3 are all having a facelift as we speak as the salesman told me yesterday.

The RS3 has a wait until next April as we currently speak in factory build


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## potter88 (Apr 12, 2014)

Soul boy 68 said:


> Now that makes sense, take a look at the M235i coupe nothing boy racer about that, it's a very highly rated car indeed with bags of performance and with amounts of decent practicality.


I need a 5dr really bud due to having 2 kids, main reason behind a Hatchback, if not I'd be considering an E92 M3 or TTRS


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## transtek (Mar 2, 2007)

I reckon at "nearly 30", you can still qualify as a boy racer! When you get to my age (mid forties), that's when you start looking a bit silly in one!
The RS3 with the 5-pot turbo, especially if they bring out the saloon version, will be a great all-rounder, and although some say it is a bit of a "numb" driving experience, I don't know how much of that comes from the 4WD, and it is definately a good "mature" choice. I've not had any experience of MB, but most of what you hear, especially about the dealers, is not good. A Golf R would be a cheaper and more sensible option, and have always got good residuals.


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## bigmac3161 (Jul 24, 2013)

I had a golfR great bang for the Bucks audi's just bore me to tears. I tear drove the golf then Audi S3 back to back on same day, they're the same running gear and drivetrain but golf felt planted and fast the S3 was neither . If i was going hot hatch again probably the new facelift merc A45 with aero kit and sports exhaust.


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## vulf1986 (Jan 17, 2016)

Having driven the focus rs, don't write it off. I'd have one in a heartbeat (30 this year ) it's hands down the best car I've driven, sticks to the road like glue and isnt uncomfortable in normal conditions. Plus the sport and drift mode are fun when your feeling a but rebellious 

Sent from my E6853 using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2016)

Agree that the RS3 does not look boy racer-ish at all. I'd never label any Audi as that. Focus RS, now that's a different matter.

Have a look at a few Chris Harris videos on youtube. He compares a few of the cars you are considering (all be it, slightly older variants). While it might not make up your mind, it will give you some food for thought.

My money would be heading towards an M140i, or more than likely an M240i as I personally wouldn't need a hatch.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

potter88 said:


> I need a 5dr really bud due to having 2 kids, main reason behind a Hatchback, if not I'd be considering an E92 M3 or TTRS


My pick would be the M3, TTRS is not a patch on the M3 for when it comes to practically and with you having two kids, the M3 wins hands down for this, your issue could be affording one, it's around 50k plus.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

transtek said:


> I reckon at "nearly 30", you can still qualify as a boy racer! When you get to my age (mid forties), that's when you start looking a bit silly in one!
> The RS3 with the 5-pot turbo, especially if they bring out the saloon version, will be a great all-rounder, and although some say it is a bit of a "numb" driving experience, I don't know how much of that comes from the 4WD, and it is definately a good "mature" choice. I've not had any experience of MB, but most of what you hear, especially about the dealers, is not good. A Golf R would be a cheaper and more sensible option, and have always got good residuals.


I Have just driven a RS3 and there was nothing numb or boring i could feel, it felt better than the competition too in terms of build etc, I was really pleasantly surprised after some things i read, i think the problem with magazines etc is they are all about going sideways around a racetrack and thats jut not real life is it ?, the engine sounds amazing too, I am no expert though and maybe I am just as numb :thumb:, the S3 was also good and drove pretty much like my R but felt more grown up and special.

To the OP,I am/ was in exactly the same predicament, I have tried recently a 235i, a A45 (new one) a S3 and a Focus RS to name but a few, and i currently own a Golf R.

I did look at a 135i but they just don't look good to me ! (its worth noting that a 140i and a 240i are imminent too) , the Golf is a brilliant all rounder and just as good as all the magazines say BUT they are absolutely everywhere and the cheap lease deals have wiped thousands of the second hand market, if you were to buy a second hand one it would be a bargain , personally though i wouldn't get a new one and as said i now see them everywhere.

The A45 was a bit meh, the only one i liked was a white one with the spoiler, but again the prices are still high (as is the RS3 i guess) even using places like carlow, they are fast but something just wasn't right. The 235i was good but but my wife threatened to leave me if I bought one LOL, TBH I didn't quite click with it, I also went out on a rainy day which didn't help with traction !, plus the new one coming out put me off also.

I did have a 10 second look at the Seat supra but I just don't like the interiors and would feel like I had made a mistake every time I went in it.

You need to go and try them all back to back, they all have their positive and negatives and you won't find the perfect hatchback that everyone likes, I did look at the jags and Lexus also but these are just too big for my needs.

Your on the right tracks though , good luck in your hunt i am sure you wouldn't be disappointed with any of the hot hatches about at the moment :thumb:


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

182_Blue said:


> I Have just driven a RS3 and there was nothing numb or boring i could feel, it felt better than the competition too in terms of build etc, I was really pleasantly surprised after some things i read, i think the problem with magazines etc is they are all about going sideways around a racetrack and thats jut not real life is it ?, the engine sounds amazing too, I am no expert though and maybe I am just as numb :thumb:, the S3 was also good and drove pretty much like my R but felt more grown up and special.
> 
> To the OP,I am/ was in exactly the same predicament, I have tried recently a 235i, a A45 (new one) a S3 and a Focus RS to name but a few, and i currently own a Golf R.
> 
> ...


Hmm, does this mean you could be considering the RS3, your fast running out of cars to consider.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Soul boy 68 said:


> Hmm, does this mean you could be considering the RS3, your fast running out of cars to consider.


I Have certainly tried them all LOL, the RS3 sounded the best, hands down, again IMO only, I'm no stig LOL.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

If you need to carry the kids and luggage, make sure you check the size of the boot. 

4wd systems can eat into the boot space by quite a margin. I couldn't even get our two suitcases in the boot of my A45.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

Now i expect nobody to pay attention to what i chose but depending on your circumstances, if money is a touch tight, then have a look at the 308GTi by peugeot sport. Very comfy ride, surprisingly spacious boot and as long as you are only carrying yourself and kids, then it's a good size.

I've started a thread about mine in the Motoring Zone, the only downside is that because it's a 1.6, it isn't as fast as others to 60 but then it will hit 155 apparently. I've seen an easy 130 on a private facility, it was still pulling hard at that speed.


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## potter88 (Apr 12, 2014)

182_Blue said:


> I Have just driven a RS3 and there was nothing numb or boring i could feel, it felt better than the competition too in terms of build etc, I was really pleasantly surprised after some things i read, i think the problem with magazines etc is they are all about going sideways around a racetrack and thats jut not real life is it ?, the engine sounds amazing too, I am no expert though and maybe I am just as numb :thumb:, the S3 was also good and drove pretty much like my R but felt more grown up and special.
> 
> To the OP,I am/ was in exactly the same predicament, I have tried recently a 235i, a A45 (new one) a S3 and a Focus RS to name but a few, and i currently own a Golf R.
> 
> ...


I do honestly think the RS3 has been put done a bit tbh. Since when have Audi made a crap S or RS car. Problem is journalists have spent so much time raving about the Focus RS and Golf R that they think the RS3 is massively overpriced etc. Also like you said they are constantly pushing these hard on track when most people who purchase these will be using everyday round towns etc, not constantly pushing the redline

Agreed the RS3 is on the expensive side but look at the end figures. The Golf R like has been said is going to be flooded soon when PCP comes to end, Where as the RS3 at the end of term will probably still be worry more than a current brand new Golf R/M140i/Focus RS is.

The Audi salesman even said that there isn't much difference in between the RS3 and S3 because of the end figures are so strong on a RS3.

That said though most of the cars are exceptional in there own way.

Seat Leon Cupra = + Bang for buck performance - interior on cheap side

Golf R = + great all round performance - too common and market soon to be flooded

M135i/M140i = + fantastic engine sound and idrive best around - looks to be desirable at times (I personally don't mind them)

S3 = + fantastic build quality and looks, feels quality - overpriced compared to the same car Golf R

RS3 = + fantastic engine sound with 5 pot, build quality, Performance, strong residual figures - price


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Golf market is already flooded !, I went to Parkway VW in derby last week and i honestly gave up counting after 15 used R's ! , maybe they had just had a delivery ?!

Its sad, they are really good cars, mine is going tomorrow and the PX price was so much lower than about four months ago, as said though a bargain second hand purchase for someone.

S3 and RS3 are both very good, i drove them both last week after each other and i liked them both, the RS3 of course sounded better !.


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## potter88 (Apr 12, 2014)

Kerr said:


> If you need to carry the kids and luggage, make sure you check the size of the boot.
> 
> 4wd systems can eat into the boot space by quite a margin. I couldn't even get our two suitcases in the boot of my A45.


I did worry about that yesterday and said to the salesman which he showed me an S3 in the Showroom which looked on small side a little


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

potter88 said:


> I did worry about that yesterday and said to the salesman which he showed me an S3 in the Showroom which looked on small side a little


Not just 4wd either, the RWD don't fair much better, obviously have similar workings at the rear, just worth checking out when you are shopping, i have to get a full size mountain bike in which limited some options also, my Golf can get one in with the seats down and the Audi looks to be the same.


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## Kai96 (Nov 13, 2015)

RS3 for me personally. Once it's spec'd right there isn't a better hot hatch to look at as well. I also think it will hold it's value better than any of the others (if your'e worried about that sort of thing).


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## stevier88 (Nov 5, 2015)

If considering the s/rs3 I would hold off for facelift, orders on the s3 are due for delivery October time with the rs out around this time next year with a new engine. I take
It the £419 price quoted for the s3 was a saloon? The new merc c43 coupe could be an option as well 3litre twin turbo 362bhp and comes with a pretty decent standard spec.


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## potter88 (Apr 12, 2014)

stevier88 said:


> If considering the s/rs3 I would hold off for facelift, orders on the s3 are due for delivery October time with the rs out around this time next year with a new engine. I take
> It the £419 price quoted for the s3 was a saloon? The new merc c43 coupe could be an option as well 3litre twin turbo 362bhp and comes with a pretty decent standard spec.


No it was a 5dr hatch


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## stevier88 (Nov 5, 2015)

potter88 said:


> No it was a 5dr hatch


What sort of spec? Seems a tad steep for a hatch I'm not even paying that for my saloon.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

182_Blue said:


> Golf market is already flooded !, I went to Parkway VW in derby last week and i honestly gave up counting after 15 used R's ! , maybe they had just had a delivery ?!
> 
> Its sad, they are really good cars, mine is going tomorrow and the PX price was so much lower than about four months ago, as said though a bargain second hand purchase for someone.
> 
> S3 and RS3 are both very good, i drove them both last week after each other and i liked them both, the RS3 of course sounded better !.


I test drove the RS3 some time ago and walked away feeling a little underwhelmed by it, I think my current S1 is more engaging, no doubt the power is there and the characterful 5 pot is the main attraction, I found during my test drive that it's the car that wants to be the star of the show and not you, the driver.


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## potter88 (Apr 12, 2014)

stevier88 said:


> What sort of spec? Seems a tad steep for a hatch I'm not even paying that for my saloon.


It was just 2 quick quotes he buzzed through just to get rough ideas with same 2k options (Bang and Olufsen and some other bits)

S3 with DSG aswell


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

stevier88 said:


> What sort of spec? Seems a tad steep for a hatch I'm not even paying that for my saloon.


This ^

Discounts are there for the S3, not sure about the RS3 though.

Get on CarWow to look at likely figures. I was torn between the S3 and S5 but decided on the S5 because discounts were so high, and I have always been a Coupé man, rather than a hatchback man.

Not sure if you can buy the B8.5 S5 anymore now the new model has been announced though...?

In terms of the hot hatches, I drove the M235i (as above, not a fan of hatches and think the 1 series is not the prettiest car) and the engine, ZF gearbox, cabin and drivability were all stunning. If you like the styling of the 1-series, that would get my vote.

If you are in the London area I can even recommend you a very good dealership that will get you a good deal :thumb:

My only worry would be the use of a RWD for all round weather. Become abit accustom to my 4WD and love the traction it gives not only in the wet, but also in the dry from standstill...I guess the improved handling and steering feel make up for that in the BMW though. Far more engaging to drive, and winter tyres can always be used if weather is a major issue where you live.


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## potter88 (Apr 12, 2014)

Was out this evening and stopped by the Merc dealer in Norwich on way back.

They had an A45 in white in showroom and it looks epic from the outside, it's just that awful dash layout that puts me off slightly. I wonder if I can get past this if I test drive one and fall in love 

I can imagine the conversation there after a few years designing

Designer: Boss I've finished the Interior design on the new A Class along with the C and E Classes aswell

Boss: There no display screen for car info, Satnav etc you idiot.

Designer comes back after 1/2 an hr 'Boss it's fixed I've put an iPad on all the dashes'


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

potter88 said:


> Was out this evening and stopped by the Merc dealer in Norwich on way back.
> 
> They had an A45 in white in showroom and it looks epic from the outside, it's just that awful dash layout that puts me off slightly. I wonder if I can get past this if I test drive one and fall in love
> 
> ...


It's even more laughable when you realise all the other German companies are copying them...!!!

Cheap knock-off looking iPads are stuck all over the new Audi's as well! :wall:


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## potter88 (Apr 12, 2014)

DrEskimo said:


> It's even more laughable when you realise all the other German companies are copying them...!!!
> 
> Cheap knock-off looking iPads are stuck all over the new Audi's as well! :wall:


I thought the new Audis have that digital display on the speedo clock area (A4, TT and R8) do at the moment I think


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

potter88 said:


> I thought the new Audis have that digital display on the speedo clock area (A4, TT and R8) do at the moment I think


Yea the TT and R8 just have the virtual ****pit display, but the new A4 and now new A5 have that, as well as a stuck on display in the middle of the dash...


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

I went to buy some petrol recently, just browsing at a TTRS the dealer came out said, take it for a spin, What !!! did not need asking a second time off we go then. I continue to look for another car, the TT was impressive, smooth gearbox great pick up plush interior. No room for the kids which in my case is an advantage, a great day out.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

DrEskimo said:


> It's even more laughable when you realise all the other German companies are copying them...!!!
> 
> Cheap knock-off looking iPads are stuck all over the new Audi's as well! :wall:


I think you'll find the display screens slides out of view inside the dash at a touch of a button, it has that on the new A4.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

DrEskimo said:


> Yea the TT and R8 just have the virtual ****pit display, but the new A4 and now new A5 have that, as well as a stuck on display in the middle of the dash...


The screen slides away out of view, I know I've seen it.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

That image above - I doubt that screen moves - the air vent ducting would make it virtually impossible


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

Yea unfortunately the screen only retracts in the A3, A7 and A8. Not sure about the A6. It doesn't on the new A4 or A5.


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## christopherquin (Apr 12, 2016)

potter88 said:


> Well early next year I'm taking the plunge on a new car, so I'm starting to get thinking cap on now and start test driving a few with prices/quotes etc. It will be on PCP and I have a budget of £500 a month so will cover everything pretty much.
> 
> I popped into Audi yesterday and with a £5k deposit I can get an RS3 for £469 month with 10k year over 48 months. An S3 will be £419 month with same cost of options on both (£2000 as a rough estimate)
> 
> ...


If I had the money, RS3 all day long for me, the noise alone from that 5 pot! Bang for buck, easily a Golf R, can get them for ridiculously cheap on PCPs, under £300pm if you know where to look! My advice would be, once you decide, go through a broker like Carwow, don't go direct to the dealer, because I guarantee you can do much better online!

I just got rid of a MK5 Golf GTI (my 4th one) and replaced it with the new A3 S-line S-tronic because I needed something diesel and newer, but the Golf is/always has been a great all rounder!


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

To be honest out of the hot hatch range there's so many to choose from and they're all highly impressive. 

Golf-R, RS3, A45, RS...I doubt you could be blamed for choosing any of them as they're all good looking and seriously quick.

Me personally, if I was looking at spending £400+ on a PCP deal, I'd be looking at slightly used cars and opt for a bigger M/AMG/RS German wagon but that's just me.


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## SBM (Jul 4, 2013)

Soul boy 68 said:


> My pick would be the M3, TTRS is not a patch on the M3 for when it comes to practically and with you having two kids, the M3 wins hands down for this, your issue could be affording one, it's around 50k plus.


Have to disagree SB - the New MK3 TTRS due out this autumn is THE car to have - just my humble opinion of course :thumb: It's all educated guesswork at the moment as its not out and there are no comparison tests etc. Once it arrives though the current M2, M3, M4, RS3, A45, Focus RS etc - won't touch it. but of course these things never stand still. There will be new and improved versions of all these coming over the next few years and the top dog will change as always.

But the TTRS with some 400HP and a 0-62 of 3.7 (which is nudging the R8) is some package... and I am sure it will cost!


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

SBM said:


> Have to disagree SB - the New MK3 TTRS due out this autumn is THE car to have - just my humble opinion of course :thumb: It's all educated guesswork at the moment as its not out and there are no comparison tests etc. Once it arrives though the current M2, M3, M4, RS3, A45, Focus RS etc - won't touch it. but of course these things never stand still. There will be new and improved versions of all these coming over the next few years and the top dog will change as always.
> 
> But the TTRS with some 400HP and a 0-62 of 3.7 (which is nudging the R8) is some package... and I am sure it will cost!


But bald performance figures do not make "the best hot hatch" - not in my book anyway - its about feel, interaction, putting a smile on your face - a few tenths here and there, a few bhp here and there do not make one car a good hot hatch and another one poor


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## christopherquin (Apr 12, 2016)

Soul boy 68 said:


> I think you'll find the display screens slides out of view inside the dash at a touch of a button, it has that on the new A4.


I actually went to test drive the new A4 in Germany, and got to drive from Audis test centre in Munich all the way into the Alps.

At first this screen does look cheap, I'll admit, but its far superior to Mercedes (which I also tested on the return leg along with the 3 series as comparison). At first you think it's just another screen stuck there for ****s and gigs, however this being a family car, it means the driver can have their virtual ****pit up showing whatever they like, and the centre screen set up for family viewing/map reading etc, the more time I spent in the car, the more I really like this idea, along with the raised/slimmed down dashboard, it really was an excellent car.

Anyway, I can confirm the new A4 centre screen does not fold away, it's fixed in position.


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## insanejim69 (Nov 13, 2011)

andy665 said:


> But bald performance figures do not make "the best hot hatch" - not in my book anyway - its about feel, interaction, putting a smile on your face - a few tenths here and there, a few bhp here and there do not make one car a good hot hatch and another one poor


I agree, I'd rather have a car that was a second slower to 60mph if it meant it had fantastic steering feel and handling. Imo straight line speed isn't fun at all, going round a lovely twisty B/A road is 

James

:


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## wylie coyote (Jul 15, 2007)

potter88 said:


> Was out this evening and stopped by the Merc dealer in Norwich on way back.
> 
> They had an A45 in white in showroom and it looks epic from the outside, it's just that awful dash layout that puts me off slightly. I wonder if I can get past this if I test drive one and fall in love
> 
> ...


I think you'd get used to it - I have and don't really notice that it looks a bit stuck on. It's really useful having a big screen close at hand and at eye level (ish).
Try one - you might like it. Personally I'm very pleased with my A45 and it feels more special to use than my Golf R did....


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## Christian6984 (Dec 20, 2007)

don't know if your planning on keeping the car but have you looked into leasing? I found the S3 for hundred less a month with a £2k ish deposit. The Golf R and M135 had cheapish deals in the past


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## potter88 (Apr 12, 2014)

Christian6984 said:


> don't know if your planning on keeping the car but have you looked into leasing? I found the S3 for hundred less a month with a £2k ish deposit. The Golf R and M135 had cheapish deals in the past


Depending on how much I love the car I might consider keeping it and paying the final figure but I'll cross that bridge when I get there


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

In answer to Op's question - For the money I don't think you can beat the VW Golf R TBH

Quick look on Drive The Deal
Brand new 5 door manual Golf R in tornado red
£6014 discount
Discounted price £26242


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