# Approved used car with signs of respray work



## b33mer

Hi guys, 

I’ll try and keep this short but a lot to say…basically I bought a new (to me) approved used BMW from a BMW dealership. It has had two previous owners, is a 2010MY and has just under 15,000 miles on the clock.

It was the cheapest and highest spec car in the country and was in pretty mint condition. I did notice that the rear bumper was slightly misaligned, but as I already owned an E92 I knew what was up and was happy to adjust it myself. The paintwork looked original (I did look at it with close scrutiny as I could at the dealership and didn’t spot any lacquer issues or signs of respray (I know what they are like). Apart from polish residue it looked mint. I went to put an offer in but the salesmen was a bit awkward to deal with and we couldn’t agree on a deal. I therefore went away to have a think and two days later the dealership rang to say the salesmen left the company and that it has now been sold. I was a bit gutted but after about two weeks the car appeared back up for sale. The car had no additional mileage on it and it was bought by someone over the phone but he couldn’t come up with the cash. I checked this out and it was the case. I showed interest in the car and this time the salesmen I was dealing with seemed much easier to deal with and was honest enough to tell me all the details of the car and what warranty work it had done and the history of it (as he sold it previously and he took it back in). I again, verified this with the previous owner, as I cheekily grabbed the address of the previous owner from the V5 and asked him. He was happy to answer my questions and confirmed that it was never in an accident and that apart from two interior trims it was all original. He owned it for 2 years (it had 5,000miles on the clock then) and it’s now got 15k. 

Having checked everything out, I did a deal and got it for a good price. I even managed to save a fair chunk of their 'shelf price' so to speak. Happy with it all until when I washed it on the weekend and used a detailing brush to get rid of the polish stuck in panel gaps and window trims. This is when I found out that the polish was actually masking two or three ridges under the window sill which showed signs that the rear quarter panel had been resprayed or relacquered atleast. Having looked closer with artificial lighting I can see a very very slight change in the way the metallic speckles fall, in a small area on the rear quarter panel (the area where the rear bumper meets the quarter panel) and they must have blown the whole quarter panel with lacquer to blend it in. It’s actually a good job bar the signs of lacquer build up where they must have masked it near the window. I have since been worried about the car and have checked out the whole car thoroughly (I have worked in the trade so was happy to remove the bumper and all the trays in the boot to inspect the rear, boot floor and chassis). Everything including the trays, bootfloor and the bumper are all original (as the manufacturing date stamped on all the parts are 2010). There is no signs of jig pulling and all associated welds are original factory welds. The chassis legs are straight and the rear beam is also the original 2010 build part. I suspect what may have happened is that either it suffered from damage whilst it was being shipped in when new, or BMW may have damaged it in the forecourt at some point. I suspect what happened is that someone or something scraped the side of the bumper and rear quarter panel, and the dealership did a respray of that side of the bumper and quarter panel and then blended it in, by sprayed laquer on the whole panel. As such it’s more of a scrape than accident damage. I guess this is the proper way to repair it, rather than a chipsaway job, albeit not perfect.

I did get it for a very very good price and I’m confident that the car has not sustained major damage. Part of me says all cars would have had some work done in the past and it’s just a trait of a used car (I think most used cars would have suffered from cosmetic work), but part of me also says I should fight it out with the dealer (their purchase form though does say you accept it in the condition you saw, which may not give me a leg to stand on). What is everyone’s thoughts?


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## The Cueball

caveat emptor

However, if you think you got on well with the sales guy, maybe pop back in - did you get any warranty with the car?

Have a chat, and ask what he can do to help out... although, I'm not sure from your post what you expect to happen??

Are you wanting it repainted, if it has been?

A better repair?

A note to say it has been worked on and it will be covered should anything happen?

:thumb:


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## -AndyH-

Thing is...most reputable bodyshops offer guarantees on the paintwork (as do BMW). 

If you ever have problems with the paintwork, you need to know who did it (or if it is original) and when to sort out any potential problems.

It's worth speaking to the sales guy and asking if he's aware of any bodywork. Tell him you suspect there was a respray and you need to know when/where it was resprayed for paint warranty purposes.


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## deno 1

I cant see that having a bit of paint work done is any reason for the dealer to worry if you pick a fight with them......they wont see it as any kinda comeback on them as it was a second hand car not new.... even if you had seen it before handing over your cash they wouldnt see it as been detrimental to the car.......
Dont take this the wrong way but many people believe that buying these so called approved cars is a sure fire way of getting a real gem.........
I dont think its the case........ i think its bull**** and sales pitch..
Bmw employ people just like other big car names to scour the auctions buying second hand motors..........then give them the once over and call them approved.....
I went to a bmw main dealer on sunday to view a 1 series convertable.......front and back bumpers had been resprayed.......bonnet had been ....... and the boot lid had been done........also all 4 wheels had been done, needless to say i walked away..


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## Dixondmn

Sounds like you know your stuff, and if the price was good you got a good deal.

I know how this makes you feel as the car is not original, but that being said i think you can expect some sort of cosmetic enhancement on a used car. (not that you should) but as Cueball says, what do you want them to do about it?


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## Kerr

deno 1 said:


> I cant see that having a bit of paint work done is any reason for the dealer to worry if you pick a fight with them......they wont see it as any kinda comeback on them as it was a second hand car not new.... even if you had seen it before handing over your cash they wouldnt see it as been detrimental to the car.......
> Dont take this the wrong way but many people believe that buying these so called approved cars is a sure fire way of getting a real gem.........
> I dont think its the case........ i think its bull**** and sales pitch..
> Bmw employ people just like other big car names to scour the auctions buying second hand motors..........then give them the once over and call them approved.....
> I went to a bmw main dealer on sunday to view a 1 series convertable.......front and back bumpers had been resprayed.......bonnet had been ....... and the boot lid had been done........also all 4 wheels had been done, needless to say i walked away..


Agreed, approved used car means nothing when buying a car.

Many of the main dealers source their cars through the same channels as any other small dealer.

Too many people believe AUC guarantees they are getting a perfect car which isn't the case at all.

In most cases they pay way over the odds for it too. Surprised the OP has sourced a cheap car from BMW AUC as that would automatically set alarm bells ringing.

Sadly with used cars, unless they are unfit for purpose, you are down to the goodwill of the dealer.

You can push them and see what they say but you might struggle.


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## b33mer

Firstly, thanks for all the replies. 

I guess my post is kind of seeking for assurance on whether some respray of this nature is acceptable on a car or not? Nearly two out of three cars I saw had either bumpers or bonnets resprayed (probably to hide stonechips and make them look mint). The BMW that I previously had did have work done by the dealer too - but I guess I was more relaxed because I knew what was done and why.

The dealer is saying that apart from a replacement washer jet cover no work was done. The previous owner says no work was done. Before this the car was in the possession of BMW UK. I can't trace what happened/was repaired there. 

Luckily I have a friend that works for BMW and before buying (to ensure the cheap price is not to good to be true) I had him do a full history and warranty check within the BMW network. All came back perfect and I even found that it had a seal and protect cover and service plan active till 2015 - bonus!

As I said, I knew the bumper was disturbed before buying and guess every car has had a knock or two and it was still almost factory condition so was happy with it. I guess what bothers me is the wing / potential door lacquer respray I've now discovered. Apart from the small portion near the bumper its just had a blowover of lacquer from what me and the bodyshops can see. 


I have since my last post had the car inspected briefly by two of my trusted bodyshops and both said that i'm worrying over nothing. One of them actually does work for a well known dealership and said that nearly AUC cars come to him and all panels have had some form of work - its just the way the industry works. 

One has said he can see that the rear bumper and rear quarter panel has been done. The other said that the rear bumper, quarter panel and part of the door has been done, and pointed out where the repair was (ironically the small area I found near the bumper join) and that the rest of the spray was just a coat of lacquer to blend it together running up to the door. Both have said to me to leave it as it is because the job is actually pretty good otherwise (although one said its a bit heavy on the lacquer) and a bit of local work (mainly flatting and polishing :buffer will sort the lacquer I'm whinging about edge up nicely. Alternatively I can have it re-done and corrected for £250 - which I guess is not so bad.


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## deno 1

fOff topic i know but i will tell you a story about a audi main dealer near me.
5 years ago...... i spot a a3 for sale in the paper at local main agent, went to view on night after they had closed......it was dark and raining so couldnt see much but it seemed ok.....sent the mrs next day to take a look, she falls in love straight away and the salesman is on the phone to me wanting a deposit........i tell him i will be along later to have a proper look myself.......no need sir ,the car is a minter and your mrs loves it so give me a deposit over the phone......i told him no way im giving any money till iv seen the car........next thing , he knocking money off for a quick deal.
The alarm bells are ringing now so im in the van and off to see whats going on.....
Upon arrival it seems that the salesman had left for the day so i get lumbered with some idiot who knows nowt.......
He shows me the car ............ to which i nearly droped dead in shock.
Full respray.......covered in orange peel.........oil leak.......water leak........masking tape still under the bonnet from the paint job..........wiring cluster to one headlight hanging out.......... cracked rear light........ 3 different manufactures of glass in the car..........service history all filled inn on the same day with the same pen by the same fella......... strange considering the car was registered to a address in london but was serviced 350 miles away in chester where it was up for sale...
Anyway after pointing the defects out to the fella he then get the big boss out who says im talking rubbish and doesnt see any problems and goes on to say that my mrs didnt have a problem so if you dont want it ,the best think to do is f... off.
............. true story,..


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## busterbulldog

Maybe it had a fussy owner,I have had my new car 9 months,in that time I have had both wings and bonnet fully resprayed on 3 seperate occasions due to stonechips.Plus 1 wheel refurbed twice lol.


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## Brian mc21

Just to put your mind at rest. The other half put a real light dent on the quarter of a civic type r she owned. Off to the body shop to be told cant push it out from behind as it was strengthened at that particular point so foolishly enough she went for a complete respray on the quarter. Three efforts and a new rear quarter window later enough was enough and she sold the car on after getting it back. Now down the line someone will look at this and probably think the worst when at the end of the day it was no more than a real soft dent snd the body shop making a **** of it that she wishes she had of left the dent in it.


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## b33mer

deno 1 said:


> fOff topic i know but i will tell you a story about a audi main dealer near me.
> 5 years ago...... i spot a a3 for sale in the paper at local main agent, went to view on night after they had closed......it was dark and raining so couldnt see much but it seemed ok.....sent the mrs next day to take a look, she falls in love straight away and the salesman is on the phone to me wanting a deposit........i tell him i will be along later to have a proper look myself.......no need sir ,the car is a minter and your mrs loves it so give me a deposit over the phone......i told him no way im giving any money till iv seen the car........next thing , he knocking money off for a quick deal.
> The alarm bells are ringing now so im in the van and off to see whats going on.....
> Upon arrival it seems that the salesman had left for the day so i get lumbered with some idiot who knows nowt.......
> He shows me the car ............ to which i nearly droped dead in shock.
> Full respray.......covered in orange peel.........oil leak.......water leak........masking tape still under the bonnet from the paint job..........wiring cluster to one headlight hanging out.......... cracked rear light........ 3 different manufactures of glass in the car..........service history all filled inn on the same day with the same pen by the same fella......... strange considering the car was registered to a address in london but was serviced 350 miles away in chester where it was up for sale...
> Anyway after pointing the defects out to the fella he then get the big boss out who says im talking rubbish and doesnt see any problems and goes on to say that my mrs didnt have a problem so if you dont want it ,the best think to do is f... off.
> ............. true story,..


Wow, that sounds like a horror story. With this, in terms of service history, I had my own dealer (seperate to this dealership) do a full check on it (I never believe a stamped book). I did a proper HPI and mileage check and that came back all clear too (I did my own and the dealer also gave me one). At 15,000 miles the rest of the car is a minter inside and drives nice and tight with no rattles. To add to this I even turned up to the previous owners house to ask him about the car and he said its never been in a accident and only traded it in as it was big for the misses and he bought a M3 (which was sitting there).

Its very easy to get blown over when buying a new car and the dealing with the salesmen felt very honest as he showed me the cars history too (i didn't even ask as I did my own research beforehand anyway). He left me to do my own check on the car and I turned up with a detailed list of every single thing to check in it (best to write it down than remember) and I did it all and was satisfied. He also let me go on a 1.5 hour test drive, doing about 70 miles on it on various roads. Having owned the same chassis/car previously, I knew the types of noises and things to look out for (i simply changed it as I needed one with a auto gearbox). The only thing I didn't do is give it a wash and remove the polish debris - obviously it wasn't reasonable to do so, but if I did then i'd have discovered the lacquer overspray under the window trim.


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## jcf1966

WHen I bought my car I got Jaguar to paint the front of the car to get rid of stone chips.

It does not mean anything, what ou want to know is if it had had an accident.

James


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## Rundie

I've just purchased a two year old BMW X5 (AUC) after months of looking. I thought an Approved used car at BMW meant quality but most I saw were dogs with poor smart repairs to doors, bumpers and alloys.
I did end up getting a minter but had to travel miles to view and buy it, my budget was mid £30K's and for this sort of cash I didn't think I'd have so much trouble finding a decent one but I was proved wrong.


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## craigeh123

Loads if cars get paint at pdi before the owner ever sees it , if the previous owner knows nothing about it (hes no reason to lie ) then it was done while in bmw's hands . If its a good repair ibwouldnt worry about it


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## Dixondmn

busterbulldog said:


> Maybe it had a fussy owner,I have had my new car 9 months,in that time I have had both wings and bonnet fully resprayed on 3 seperate occasions due to stonechips.Plus 1 wheel refurbed twice lol.


Are you serious?


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## squiggs

An approved car won't have undergone the scrutiny you've put it through - they won't have taken bits off to check they were all dated as per the cars date of manufacture (if they started taking cars apart where would they stop?) and neither would they have inspected the paint for minor defects under 'an artificial light'.

Although it's approved doesn't mean to say it's untouched.

The car has had a history before you met it and it could have been damaged ....
..... on delivery when it was new - you'd be surprised how often cars are damaged on their journeys from factory to forecourt. And no-body's going to note it down in the vehicles history - they'll just get it repaired. 
.... by the previous owner who got it repaired privately (why should they admit it?) 
.... by a user - maybe the previous owners wife/son/daughter borrowed it damaged it, and then got it privately repaired before the owner found out.

Whatever the case 'approved' will never, and could never, be a guarantee that a bumper/quarter (or whatever) hasn't had a knock or scratch that has been repaired.

But well done for spotting it :thumb:


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## floydlloyd

Cars are going to get dents on them and panels painted. Thats just the trade. If you wanted a car that wasnt painted then perhaps you should maybe have went new. Honestly, i think you are panicing over nothing. Dont take this the wrong way because i know how the guys one here are about their paint work.


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## rf860

I wouldn't worry about a car having paintwork done in the slightest. As long as the repair is a quality job, there's no problem with the car at all.

My previous car, a BMW 120d m sport coupe was in quite a serious accident in my ownership (airbags etc) and was repaired at a BMW approved bodyshop (not that that means anything!) with genuine parts. Before I collected the car, in my head, I had already decided that I would be selling straight away. However, when I collected it I was genuinely blown away with the standard of the repair done - you'd never have known - and I'm extremely extremely picky. It drove 100% perfect and not a creak or rattle either. 

Anyway, when I traded it in a couple of months ago, the only reason it didn't go on the approved used BMW forecourt was that it had had one service carried out at a BMW specialist rather than dealer. So I just goes to show, you never really know what you're buying unless you really give the car a very thorough going over.


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## floydlloyd

rf860 said:


> I wouldn't worry about a car having paintwork done in the slightest. As long as the repair is a quality job, there's no problem with the car at all.
> 
> My previous car, a BMW 120d m sport coupe was in quite a serious accident in my ownership (airbags etc) and was repaired at a BMW approved bodyshop (not that that means anything!) with genuine parts. Before I collected the car, in my head, I had already decided that I would be selling straight away. However, when I collected it I was genuinely blown away with the standard of the repair done - you'd never have known - and I'm extremely extremely picky. It drove 100% perfect and not a creak or rattle either.
> 
> Anyway, when I traded it in a couple of months ago, the only reason it didn't go on the approved used BMW forecourt was that it had had one service carried out at a BMW specialist rather than dealer. So I just goes to show, you never really know what you're buying unless you really give the car a very thorough going over.


I completely understand. I work in a bodyshop and im aware of the high expectations of BMW drivers in particular. I drive one myself. An uncle of mine rolled a ZM coupe on the motorway outside belfast on a really wet day. The damage was unbelievable. It was taken in and everything was replaced, painted and meticulously checked over. No faults could be found. You have a good taste in cars. Best of luck with it.


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## IndepthCarDetailing

howdy nothing to worry about unless the work done is really poor, the golf in my profile i used to own, i purchased from a VW main dealer used for 18k ,8 months old, 6k miles on it,it had to have paint on the front bottom bumper and along the bottom drivers door due to very very minor scrapes,no big deal ,its a used car thats been on the road.


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## The_Bouncer

squiggs said:


> An approved car won't have undergone the scrutiny you've put it through - they won't have taken bits off to check they were all dated as per the cars date of manufacture (if they started taking cars apart where would they stop?) and neither would they have inspected the paint for minor defects under 'an artificial light'.
> 
> Although it's approved doesn't mean to say it's untouched.
> 
> The car has had a history before you met it and it could have been damaged ....
> ..... on delivery when it was new - you'd be surprised how often cars are damaged on their journeys from factory to forecourt. And no-body's going to note it down in the vehicles history - they'll just get it repaired.
> .... by the previous owner who got it repaired privately (why should they admit it?)
> .... by a user - maybe the previous owners wife/son/daughter borrowed it damaged it, and then got it privately repaired before the owner found out.
> 
> Whatever the case 'approved' will never, and could never, be a guarantee that a bumper/quarter (or whatever) hasn't had a knock or scratch that has been repaired.
> 
> But well done for spotting it :thumb:


Agree with squiggs here, I've been around plenty of PDI / new car delivery centers and dealt with an awful lot of new cars - from all manufacturers. Sounds like to me the above is the case. In which case it would be a good repair and 95% of the population would probably never notice. :thumb:


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## b33mer

Hi All, 

Thank you for everyones input to this thread. You have made me feel much better about it, alongside the three bodyshops I've shown the car too. All have confirmed its not been in a major collision and that its a good repair. The bodyshops I went to were top notch ones in my area and I know that there work is perfection. I got various quotes from £250 - £400 between the three to correct but all of them said to me don't bother doing it as except the slight laquer line under close to the window trim, you can't tell its been done. I guess that means something as they are a business and probably would be happy to take some money from me. 

I know what you mean about approved used cars - apart from a feeble 100 and something point basic mechanical check, it usually sails through to the forecourt. Prime examples are my previous two BMW's. The first one had EBC greenstuff pads and discs on it and they didn't even notice. They put it up for sale and I noticed it still had the EBC greenstuff pads and discs from the pictures. The one I just traded in was all original but it went up onto their website the next working day. It really must have been a detailed check for it to go up that quickly.


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## Johnboy82

I used to work for a BMW dealership in Edinburgh. Approved used basically means that its been serviced at BMW or a BMW approved garage with all stamps being updated on the database. Theres a bit more to it but not much. Cars are sold after accident damage as approved as they are mechanically sound. Cosmetically, not particularly important as long as no bits are hanging off etc. It's not ideal as when you hear approved used, you would think that it's in an as new condition


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## phazer

Bit late to the party as most things have been covered, however, I've not seen anyone mention bodywork warranty.

Suppose you buy a car with the balance of warranty remaining (inc. paint/body), you find out afterwards that it's been painted, might have even been the dealer you bought it from. Where do you stand if the paint fails or more importantly the panel perforates?

You go back to the dealer and they decline the warranty work as it's been previously painted.

Not had direct experience, so more a question to see what people think. Most used cars I've looked at in recent years have had paint. A lot of Audi and BMW sellers actively re-spray bonnets as a matter of course it seems.


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## rf860

phazer said:


> Bit late to the party as most things have been covered, however, I've not seen anyone mention bodywork warranty.
> 
> Suppose you buy a car with the balance of warranty remaining (inc. paint/body), you find out afterwards that it's been painted, might have even been the dealer you bought it from. Where do you stand if the paint fails or more importantly the panel perforates?
> 
> You go back to the dealer and they decline the warranty work as it's been previously painted.
> 
> Not had direct experience, so more a question to see what people think. Most used cars I've looked at in recent years have had paint. A lot of Audi and BMW sellers actively re-spray bonnets as a matter of course it seems.


I'd imagine that they would say that that is the risk you take when you buy a used car.


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## phazer

rf860 said:


> I'd imagine that they would say that that is the risk you take when you buy a used car.


Indeed. however one of the things Audi and BMW dealers do is bang on about their approved cars having warranty etc

what I suspect is that you'd get it done at the dealers expense but only after bucket loads of aggro and liberal use of the word mis-sold.


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## rf860

phazer said:


> Indeed. however one of the things Audi and BMW dealers do is bang on about their approved cars having warranty etc
> 
> what I suspect is that you'd get it done at the dealers expense but only after bucket loads of aggro and liberal use of the word mis-sold.


That's only a mechanical and electrical warranty tho. Anything cosmetic is not covered.

Depending on the dealer, it's likely that they would just repair anyway if it was perforation warranty as the dealer gets paid by the manufacturer for any work carried out.


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## ianrobbo1

If you want to see just how many "top of the range" cars are damaged before the dealers even see them go to Grimsby and Immingham, there are fields of cars straight off the boats, and the damage on some you wouldn't believe!!:doublesho Audi have a place on estate road 5 that is always packed with bent motors, Kia have a field of em at the top end of Rosper road Immingham, try google and see them all!! Bmw tend to take their "new deliveries"  straight the Thorne near Doncaster, before shipping them off to the dealers.


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## PootleFlump

Good choice.


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## The_Bouncer

ianrobbo1 said:


> If you want to see just how many "top of the range" cars are damaged before the dealers even see them go to Grimsby and Immingham, there are fields of cars straight off the boats, and the damage on some you wouldn't believe!!:doublesho Audi have a place on estate road 5 that is always packed with bent motors, Kia have a field of em at the top end of Rosper road Immingham, try google and see them all!! Bmw tend to take their "new deliveries"  straight the Thorne near Doncaster, before shipping them off to the dealers.


:lol:

Spent many hours walking around those yards at Immingham - massive site :thumb:


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## MK1Campaign

busterbulldog said:


> Maybe it had a fussy owner,I have had my new car 9 months,in that time I have had both wings and bonnet fully resprayed on 3 seperate occasions due to stonechips.Plus 1 wheel refurbed twice lol.


Complete waste of time and money. It will get chipped every time you go out in it. The more paint you apply to panels the more its going to look like a repaired car.


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## Andyb0127

Bodyshop I worked at, we used to get brand new unregistered bmw's and Mercedes in all the time that had been damaged. How many of the customers tht bought these cars actually knew it had already had paintwork done. Not many as they probably assumed its a brand new car it won't of had any paint work done on it.


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