# Buffer Trails?



## trejdelsol (Jun 15, 2009)

Some of you may have seen my recent thread about my first attempt at machine polishing, wasnt overly chuffed with the results as didnt get most of the swirls out.
When the sun was out yesterday I noticed what looks like buffer trails down the side of the driver door - I havent noticed them before so I can only assume ive left them 

The thing is I followed Daves guide as closely as possible, pretty sure I broke down the polish each time. How exactly are buffer trails inflicted? Is it because maybe I didnt overlap work sections so leaving a line of unpolished paint?
Sorry I did go through Daves guide like I said but couldnt see exactly what causes buffer trails.


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## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

you will need to follow up with a finishing product to get rid of the holograms. Try using 3M ultrafina or similar product


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## trejdelsol (Jun 15, 2009)

JPC said:


> you will need to follow up with a finishing product to get rid of the holograms. Try using 3M ultrafina or similar product


Thanks. I have some Menzerna Final Finish - Im assuming that will do the same job?

Makes sense I guess, I was using intensive polish on a cutting pad


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## never ready (Dec 12, 2007)

intensive polish on a cutting pad is fairly harsh. Even if the IP broke down the pad could leave trails.
Solid Black will always be hard work, but get it right and it looks the best imo.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

As above, a finishing polish will be needed to refine the finish here, unless you are using a more specialised technique with the IP than is covered in the guides  It can be done, using a regenerating technique of working till clear, backing off and reviving, then speeding up and working to clear and repeating a couple of times (basically ).

If the correction level is poor though, this may suggest that you have too large a working area or the polish is not strong enough for the correction - ensure your work area is no bigger than 1' square and your work time should be around 3 - 5 mins. 

Also, fine finishing relies a lot on technique as well as the mechanics of working the polish until the residue clear etc... the best finishes I see being produced by those with a flowing technique with the machine, you should be relaxed and flowing in a good rhytmn. If you are tense and jerky, the finish will suffer.


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## trejdelsol (Jun 15, 2009)

Thanks all, definately going to try again on the weekend, ill let you know any progress made


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

Dave summed it up well, smooth rythmic motions.
I move the machine at .5, 1 inch or 2 inches per second and never change that through the whole polishing set with each product until the last 10 seconds of the polishing set.
This is my technique with Menz 85RD at least, as seen already on here

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=130485

With a compound of any grade, spend the extra time and jewel it down really fine and heat soak your compound/cutting or levelling pads so they are softer and not so rock hard.

Never do one speed buffing at 1200, 1400, 1500 or higher
No matter what speed you run it at, once it's broken down, take the machine rpm back a notch or two to 1200 or 1100 and refine the finish
Then stay at 900 and even add a tiny bead of product back on and work at 900 for a while
a work time of 3 to 5 mins or 5 to 8 mins would be fine though I'm going in the other direction. I'm addicted to jewelling.

Buffer trails can be caused by angle buffing, a dry pad or a pad that isn't totally clean, working a polish too long (keep an eye on the lubricating oils) and run out of lubrication, not breaking the product down fully, using too much or not enough polish and not having the pad perfectly centred when starting to polish and whilst it's slowly being broken down

what you can also do is once the product is broken down, put the pad off centre a little so it has a random orbit motion and slow down the RPM's and work the polish for a short time.

Don't be afraid to add a small bead of product if necessary to reactivate it and remove the holograms if you still get some. 
THE GOLDEN RULE : Always jewel the finish with every product. whether leveller, compound, light cut polish or finishing polish. - time doesn't matter.
you should never finish a set and have any hazing even if using a 600, 800 or 1000 grit leveller and there should be no swirls or anything in the paint after each step.

Finally, make sure you understand the RPM range that you have to use the product with
For example -

With a rotary,

Prima Swirl - 1500 or 1700 or 1900 to burnish 
Slow down to 1500, 1200, 1100, 1000, 900 and if you wish, 800 and 700 to finish down beautifully

Menzerna IP - 1200 to 1500 (softer paints) - 1500 to 1800 (hard paints)
Menzerna 85RD - 600 - 900, 1100 and 1200 to 1300. back to 1100, 1000, 900 and slower if you wish

(I find that going to 1800 with 85rd is a waste as there is nothing to correct) and it's easy to break down at lower RPM's

Gtechniq P1 - anywhere from 600 to 1000. 1200 to 1500 can be done too but I don't recommend it


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## Ti22 (Mar 24, 2009)

Pop over for some pointers if you want buddy


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## trejdelsol (Jun 15, 2009)

I gave it another go last night btw, worked again on the bonnet with intensive polish on sfX-2 pad. I noticed having adding more passes so working the polish for londer this time it definately went clear (previously it felt like I was working forever but didnt notice the polish change to clear).

And this time I had much better results! All the swirls are gone and all that remain are some rds, im over the moon to be honest as I was beginning to think id just have to put up with them :thumb: So I now have a bonnet with 50% swirled and 50% not, will do the other half on the weekend now I know it works!!

As for the buffer trails I havent attempted to correct them yet, but im pretty sure now its down to my technique - plus I was polishing on a boiling hot day which I think was causing me problems!

Dream Machines thanks for your post, found the video very useful. Quick question, do you happen to know how the rpm's match up to the speed numbers on the dial of the kestral das-6? At the moment im spreading at 1-2, working at around 4 for a few passes then bump up to around 5-6 until fully worked.
I may try burnishing or jewelling as both you and Dave have mentioned if its likely to make a difference

ti22 thanks for that will bear it in mind, whereabouts are you based btw? Do you do paint readings? I work in cwmbran so cant be too far

One more thing to add - having looked at Dream Machines vid I think im moving the machine way too slowly, its taking me almost 8-10 mins to do an area say 1-1.5' square and the polish is drying up very quickly, something to bear in mind for next time! 
When the whole car is done ill post up the pics, im gonna basically badger away at it each night, dont want to rush it


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## Ti22 (Mar 24, 2009)

Sounds like you're on the right track bud.

I can do paint readings for you. I have guages for metal and plastic, and can tell you how much top coat you have left.

I'm in Newport. 3 minutes from the coldra.

Get some pictures up!


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## weemax (Sep 30, 2008)

Dream Machines said:


> Dave summed it up well, smooth rythmic motions.
> I move the machine at .5, 1 inch or 2 inches per second and never change that through the whole polishing set with each product until the last 10 seconds of the polishing set.
> This is my technique with Menz 85RD at least, as seen already on here
> 
> ...


Best advice ive ever had. :thumb:


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## RICHIE1 (Aug 17, 2009)

*my first time*

i had first go witha rotary yesterday the bonnet of my Black Swift Sport.

I used 3M rubbing compound and the burgundy Megs Cutting pad as i had lots of swirls and etching. i finished with 3M machine polish with 3Mblack waffle pad but got lots of holograms and buffer trails

I live in trinidad and its very hot here so the paint temp my have not been low enough. i felt the product was drying too quickly and i need to work on smaller sections.

i have a blue finishing pad and some finishing polish , do you think this would remove the holograms ?


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2009)

JPC said:


> you will need to follow up with a finishing product to get rid of the holograms. Try using 3M ultrafina or similar product


I rate Ultrafina as one of the best products I have in my detailing arsenal :thumb:


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## Janitor (Feb 14, 2006)

Buffer trails... humm

I recently had a bonnet sprayed by a local guy who is really well thought of by many people. Picked the car up and all looked pretty good... but then caught it in the sunlight :doublesho










Holy feck! I've sorted it myself now, but what the hell are some people looking at when they think they're doing a good job..? :wall:


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## TomW (Jun 29, 2009)

Dream Machines said:


> I'm addicted to *jewelling*.


Good thorough answer.

Can you explain to me what jewelling is please?

Thanks

Tom (new to the machine(da) polishing thing).


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## baseballlover1 (Sep 25, 2007)

TomW said:


> Good thorough answer.
> 
> Can you explain to me what jewelling is please?
> 
> ...


Correct me if im wrong, dream. But jeweling is basically a way of finishing the paint down extra well basically. A lot of different people do different things for jeweling; I know someone who just spritzes his pad and the paint with water and he finds on soft paints this gives extraa gloss.

My jeweling is something like 85Rd and a pad with very little to no cut and break the polish down so that you achieve the best results.

Interesting little fact. No one used the term 'jeweling' until Todd Helme (TH0001) started using it. ... or at least to my knowledge no one did. Thanks Todd .


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## waxy (Feb 27, 2006)

Todd Helme adopted the term ''Jeweling'' from one of his clients,after being asked if he was ''Jeweling'' the paint during final polishing.The term has been used ever since by almost everyone,but the process is not new at all,it's been around for a lot longer than most people realise.


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