# Braked hard & the van behind didn't drive on - what's happening?



## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

This morning I was driving along a single A type National Speed Limit road in the rain at about 60MPH.

Around 0.5miles down the road there was an Ambulance with it's blue lights on coming towards us on the other side of the road for which a few cars in my direction braked for.

After it passed, the line of traffic I was following slowed down to around 35-40MPH because of ironically another ambulance that was in front of them that was travelling fairly slowly.

The car in front of me braked quite hard because of this & in turn I did too. As I braked I looked in my interior mirror & there was a small van that was coming up pretty close to me (I thought he was going to bang into me but he didn't) so at this point we were travelling at around 40MPH but I looked again in my interior mirror & the van put his hazards on & didn't drive on which I thought was odd.

So I continued to the end of the road where there's a roundabout & turned round to go back on the direction I'd come from just to make sure everything was ok but by the time I'd got back the van had gone. 

What I want to know is why do you think he could have stopped for briefly with his hazards on?

I can't help but feel he got shunted by someone but there wasn't many cars on the road at the time & if he did then I would most certainly he seen him as I passed by again.

Thanks in advanced


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

Stalled it maybe?


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

davies20 said:


> Stalled it maybe?


Never thought of that, quite possible.


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

Could he of brake that hard his hazard lights flashed?


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

B17BLG said:


> Could he of brake that hard his hazard lights flashed?


I'm not sure if Renault Kangoo vans have that system in place like some cars do? It may be possible though.


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## nicks16v (Jan 7, 2009)

Id say he stalled it.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

Thanks guys, the more I read your responses the more I do think he probably stalled it now.

I was just worried that he'd been shunted by someone behind him but if he had then after I had driven past the road I'd just come down I'd have most certainly have seen him & he'd still be there swapping details etc.

From the point where I noticed he'd stopped to me driving to the roundabout & back up the road again past the point where it happened that would have been around 1minute - 1.5 minutes time elapsed.


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## tromppost (Jan 12, 2008)

May be he caught a glimpse of you in your rearview mirror and got all flustered http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Can I ask why you are worried about this?


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

asonda said:


> Can I ask why you are worried about this?


In case he thought I was braking deliberately to get him off my tail as I did see him gaining on me prior to the car in front of me braking sharply.

I just fear he's gone to the cop shop but I think it's more paranoia on my front.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I just fear he's gone to the cop shop but I think it's more paranoia on my front.


Total non-event, i would not give it a second thought. :thumb:


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

Bero said:


> Total non-event, i would not give it a second thought. :thumb:


Thanks mate, makes me feel a lot better.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> In case he thought I was braking deliberately to get him off my tail as I did see him gaining on me prior to the car in front of me braking sharply.
> 
> I just fear he's gone to the cop shop but I think it's more paranoia on my front.


That wouldn't have even crossed my mind, forget it.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I just fear he's gone to the cop shop but I think it's more paranoia on my front.


The car in front of you braked sharply, so in turn so did you, some may describe that as an emergency stop, what is it your fear, being reported for carrying out the actions of a competent and responsible driver?


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

S63 said:


> The car in front of you braked sharply, so in turn so did you, some may describe that as an emergency stop, what is it your fear, being reported for carrying out the actions of a competent and responsible driver?


You are absolutely right in what you say, I know that but I have this stupid fear that he is going to report me because I braked sharply & because he nearly went into the back of me he must have got a fright & thought I did so deliberately to stop him tailgating me?



Thanks for your reply anyway, you are right under it all I know that. :thumb:


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Carry on driving with fears like that and you'll soon be a nervous wreck, you can misconstrude another drivers motives on just about every journey you make.

You can improve that situation by increasing the gap between you and the car in front, if that car stops suddenly you don't need to, problem solved.


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## MagpieRH (May 27, 2014)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> You are absolutely right in what you say, I know that but I have this stupid fear that he is going to report me because I braked sharply & because he nearly went into the back of me he must have got a fright & thought I did so deliberately to stop him tailgating me?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your reply anyway, you are right under it all I know that. :thumb:


What's his angle going to be?
"So I was tailgating this guy..."
Even if he did go to the police, what makes you think they'd take any action whatsoever? Just because a single driver says another driver did something, doesn't mean the police want to know.
If he was that concerned by your driving I'm sure you're more likely to have gotten a horn symphony and a two finger salute!


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

MagpieRH said:


> What's his angle going to be?


Not sure I quite follow you but I'll answer as best as I can.

When he braked he seemed to have ended up with the front half on his van slightly at an angle but not enough that he did anything like a 180 or 360. :lol:


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## staffordian (May 2, 2012)

If I have to brake sharply when in relatively quick moving traffic I will sometimes put the hazards on as a warning to following traffic. Perhaps he was just doing that?


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

If anyone has to brake sharply while in traffic, you're following too close.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

staffordian said:


> If I have to brake sharply when in relatively quick moving traffic I will sometimes put the hazards on as a warning to following traffic. Perhaps he was just doing that?


Could very well be another valid reason yes.

But he just came to a complete stop as I drove off again and that is the thing that makes me not sure.


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## staffordian (May 2, 2012)

neilos said:


> If anyone has to brake sharply while in traffic, you're following too close.


Sorry, can't agree with that. Brakes are for stopping, and there nothing wrong with using them sharply when conditions require it.

Needless to say, the degree of "sharpness" depends on several factors such as weather and road conditions, of course.

The test of whether you are too close is if you are unable to stop safely, not if you need to brake sharply :thumb:


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

staffordian said:


> Sorry, can't agree with that. Brakes are for stopping, and there nothing wrong with using them sharply when conditions require it.
> 
> Needless to say, the degree of "sharpness" depends on several factors such as weather and road conditions, of course.
> 
> The test of whether you are too close is if you are unable to stop safely, not if you need to brake sharply :thumb:


Agree with this entirely. :thumb:



neilos said:


> If anyone has to brake sharply while in traffic, you're following too close.


That is obvious and in my case it would apply to Dingbro van behind me.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

staffordian said:


> Sorry, can't agree with that. Brakes are for stopping, and there nothing wrong with using them sharply when conditions require it.
> 
> Needless to say, the degree of "sharpness" depends on several factors such as weather and road conditions, of course.
> 
> The test of whether you are too close is if you are unable to stop safely, not if you need to brake sharply :thumb:


And sorry I cannot agree with you either. If you're on a clear road and a child unexpectedly runs out immediately in front of you, apply brakes firm and sharply...that's absolutely correct. Following another vehicle you should have a gap long enough to brake in a "normal" fashion should that vehicle suddenly reduce speed, by doing this you will avoid a number of risks, one of which is the vehicle behind has a far better chance of stopping before hitting you, the OP got away with it by the skin of his teeth by the sound of it.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

S63 said:


> The OP got away with it by the skin of his teeth by the sound of it.


I wasn't tailgating the car in front of me hence why I never ran into him. I was following him with maybe a good 1 & 1/2 car lengths between us & because he braked sharply & suddenly, I had to aswell despite there being ample room between us.

It was the van behind me that was driving close & gained on me.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> It was the van behind me that was driving close & gained on me.


Read my post again, I never intimated you were tailgating, I said you got away with it by the skin of your teeth (being hit from behind).


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## staffordian (May 2, 2012)

S63 said:


> Read my post again, I never intimated you were tailgating, I said you got away with it by the skin of your teeth (being hit from behind).


But by implication you are criticising the OP because he admitted he braked sharply, and you say this should not be necessary in traffic (well that's what you criticised me for saying...)


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

staffordian said:


> But by implication you are criticising the OP because he admitted he braked sharply, and you say this should not be necessary in traffic (well that's what you criticised me for saying...)


Yes I did but that isn't the same as tailgating.

It's been a while since I did my advanced motoring and anti terrorist driver training, procedures do change and I'll be happy to be proved wrong, if there are any IAM instructors onboard please join the debate.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

If you don't like the OP's posts then move along.


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

Shaun said:


> If you don't like the OP's posts then move along.


It's not that we don't like the OP's post.

If he'd been keeping a safe distance, IMHO 1-1/2 car lengths isn't a safe following distance. If he'd been looking several hundred yards further up the road, he would of anticipated what the traffic was doing, which would of avoided the sharp braking.

It's all about what COULD happen, and not just what the numpty in front is doing, ie, what's happening further in front.


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I was following him with maybe a good 1 & 1/2 car lengths between us & because he braked sharply & suddenly, I had to aswell despite there being ample room between us.


And just to add. Nothing in driving happens "suddenly".....


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

neilos said:


> And just to add. Nothing in driving happens "suddenly".....


I beg to differ. 

So if a dog runs out in front of you, is that not a 'sudden' act or was it planned?


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Shaun said:


> If you don't like the OP's posts then move along.


Strange comment Shaun. The OP is (was) worried about a driver going to the cop shop and asked for help, most found that slightly odd, however it does raise the question of safe braking and braking distances of which some of us disagree. A healthy debate and at this time of year with seasonal weather conditions, a debate useful to jog or refresh members minds.


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I beg to differ.
> 
> So if a dog runs out in front of you, is that not a 'sudden' act or was it planned?


Yes, it's sudden. But, observation skills and you've probably spotted the dog. What could happen, it's not on a lead, it could run out in the road.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

neilos said:


> It's not that we don't like the OP's post.
> 
> If he'd been keeping a safe distance, IMHO 1-1/2 car lengths isn't a safe following distance. If he'd been looking several hundred yards further up the road, he would of anticipated what the traffic was doing, which would of avoided the sharp braking.
> 
> It's all about what COULD happen, and not just what the numpty in front is doing, ie, what's happening further in front.


I am not referring to your posts, any post remaining in the thread are fine, its the ones i am having to delete that are the issue.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

S63 said:


> Strange comment Shaun. The OP is (was) worried about a driver going to the cop shop and asked for help, most found that slightly odd, however it does raise the question of safe braking and braking distances of which some of us disagree. A healthy debate and at this time of year with seasonal weather conditions, a debate useful to jog or refresh members minds.


Again its the posts i have had to remove that are the issue not the ones remaining, the people know who they are, i should maybe have been a bit clearer.


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## kenny wilson (Oct 28, 2008)

The OP seems to have great capacity for starting threads like this one that lead to confusion and discord. Some may suspect it is deliberate.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Shaun said:


> Again its the posts i have had to remove that are the issue not the ones remaining, the people know who they are, i should maybe have been a bit clearer.


Apologies Shaun.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

S63 said:


> Apologies Shaun.


My fault chap :thumb:


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

kenny wilson said:


> The OP seems to have great capacity for starting threads like this one that lead to confusion and discord.


What's 'confusing' about it?

As far as I'm concerned it's just a discussion about what could have happened once the van had braked sharply.



kenny wilson said:


> Some may suspect it is deliberate.


Are you accusing me now?


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## kenny wilson (Oct 28, 2008)

Not even a nibble.

Wouldn't want to get 'reported'


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## staffordian (May 2, 2012)

S63 said:


> ?..Following another vehicle you should have a gap long enough to brake in a "normal" fashion should that vehicle suddenly reduce speed, by doing this you will avoid a number of risks, one of which is the vehicle behind has a far better chance of stopping before hitting you, the OP got away with it by the skin of his teeth by the sound of it.


I don't want to get into a pedantic argument, but the Highway Code refers to keeping a safe distance, ie one which allows you to stop within the safe stopping distance.

This is c100m at 70mph. I don't think many people would interpret that as braking in a "normal" fashion.

For what it's worth, I'd leave significantly more distance than this, and going back to my first post, my interpretation of sharply is probably what many drivers would consider normal as I usually read the road and adjust my speed so as to avoid needing to brake more than necessary.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

staffordian said:


> I don't want to get into a pedantic argument, but the Highway Code refers to keeping a safe distance, ie one which allows you to stop within the safe stopping distance.
> 
> This is c100m at 70mph. I don't think many people would interpret that as braking in a "normal" fashion.
> 
> For what it's worth, *I'd leave significantly more distance than this,* and going back to my first post, my interpretation of sharply is probably what many drivers would consider normal as I usually read the road and adjust my speed so as to avoid needing to brake more than necessary.


Just two last points, the Highway Code is way out of date and in need of bringing into the real world, your comment I've highlighted I agree with totally and if more drivers took that view we would have far less jams on motorways.


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## MagpieRH (May 27, 2014)

neilos said:


> And just to add. Nothing in driving happens "suddenly".....


The driver in front suffers a heart attack.
The driver coming the other way aquaplanes straight on at a bend and towards you.
You hit black ice.

If nothing happens suddenly, why is the emergency stop taught and used in a large portion of driving tests? (1 in 3 when I took my test, I believe even more now)


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

S63 said:


> Just two last points, the Highway Code is way out of date and in need of bringing into the real world, your comment I've highlighted I agree with totally and if more drivers took that view we would have far less jams on motorways.


I disagree with you, it has nothing to do with the distance they keep, it's that they react as slow as a snail, don't look beyond their noses and are incapable of keeping a constant speed, jumping on and off the brake pedal constantly.


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## camerashy (Feb 9, 2014)

If you did not see any damaged car parts or broken glass at the point where he put his hazards on then I would assume he stalled so don't give it another thought.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> I disagree with you, it has nothing to do with the distance they keep, it's that they react as slow as a snail, don't look beyond their noses and are incapable of keeping a constant speed, jumping on and off the brake pedal constantly.


If I have a driver like that behind me, I'd prefer that car was 50 car lengths away rather than 10, I might stand half a chance of not being rear ended.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

camerashy said:


> If you did not see any damaged car parts or broken glass at the point where he put his hazards on then I would assume he stalled so don't give it another thought.


Valid point - thanks chum. :thumb:


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

S63 said:


> Yes I did but that isn't the same as tailgating.
> 
> It's been a while since I did my *advanced motoring and anti terrorist driver training, procedures do change and I'll be happy to be proved wrong, if there are any IAM instructors onboard please join the debate.*


IAM (and even less so anti-terrorist training) does not come into this. It's not the rules/law/statute, and it's not a requirement to drive. The highway code is the standard (like it or not), and that's what's used in court to attribute guilt/liability.

Safe drivers don't have to be IAM/A-Terrorist trained...and of course IAM or A-terrorist trained drivers can be dangerous.

A police man in a police car was found guilty last month of dangerous (possibly careless) driving when nearly running my sister off the road.

I've reread the above and it probably sounds a bit defensive it's not supposed to :thumb:



neilos said:


> And just to add. *Nothing in driving happens "suddenly"*.....





neilos said:


> Yes, it's sudden. But, observation skills and you've *probably* spotted the dog. What could happen, it's not on a lead, it could run out in the road.


A bit of a contradiction, Nothing means 'never ever', and probably means 'most of the time'.

Things do happen suddenly, there are hundreds of things that would require sudden and very firm braking from any driver. But I agree with the premise that many things are blamed on being 'sudden' or 'out of nowhere' that an observant driver could have anticipated.

None of the above directed at the OP. :thumb:


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

When I was 13 years of age my uncle took me out for driving lessons. It was
on a long private road with some hills, bends, a narrow bridge and a couple of
junctions. This was a regular treat because they often took place in quite
posh cars, often after I had cleaned them ready for the showroom.

One of these outings I remember to this day. At the start he gave me 10
shillings, in sixpences (6d). This is way pre-decimal. What I had to do was to 
drive the road both ways, and every time I touched the brake, I had to give 
him 6d back. His reasoning was that every time you touch the brake it costs 
you 6d anyway. Back in the day, changing brake linings was not cheap!

Every time I'm out on the road, I still remember that drive. The narrow bridge
had a sharp bend either side of it with a single line railway passing over it.
I got a bit distracted because as I was coming down the hill toward the first
bend a Merchant Navy pacific loco was passing over the bridge with a very
long train of maroon coaches, full of squaddies going back to barracks.

I hadn't seen this before and the local coaches were either all green or 
carmine and cream. My stop to watch that cost me a shilling!! :wall:

All these many years later, when linings have mostly been replaced with pads
that create unholy dust, I just hate tailgaters with a passion! I'm wondering
if _anyone_ has yet been succesfully challenged by the Police for this very
dangerous and selfish manner of driving. 

If you just think, each time you touch that brake pedal it _is_ costing you 
money, not just in wear and tear...

With Season's Greetings,
Steve


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Bero said:


> IAM (and even less so anti-terrorist training) does not come into this. It's not the rules/law/statute, and it's not a requirement to drive. The highway code is the standard (like it or not), and that's what's used in court to attribute guilt/liability.
> 
> Safe drivers don't have to be IAM/A-Terrorist trained...and of course IAM or A-terrorist trained drivers can be dangerous.
> 
> ...


I wasn't for one moment suggesting that drivers with advanced driver training automatically makes them a better driver, however I do believe it has some relevance to the topic. I will always remember the first thing I was told by my instructor "forget most of what you learnt in the Highway Code, today we start from scratch and rewrite some of the methods that hopefully will make you a better and safer driver, on the whole I'd confidently say most drivers that have taken this type of instruction are better and safer drivers.


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## zippo (Mar 26, 2008)

I was taught to drive by the what if scenario. The planning game. Where, what are you going to do if a hazard you haven't noticed /noticed comes in to play. Similar to the ADI test. It works too. 4 wheel black ice slide this morning tested me . It was a really good buttock clincher
Daz


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## MEH4N (Mar 15, 2012)

OP I doubt you would get reported for braking too hard, you're clearly worrying too much. Maybe if you were driving erratically you should be concerned but I doubt you were.


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## zippo (Mar 26, 2008)

Its common for commercial drivers Jim to switch on the hazard warning lights when they know they may be coming to a rapid stop after applying the brakes quickly, and in so doing warn other drivers. Its not just heavy breaking there's more to it
Daz


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

Thanks guys.

Well the Plod haven't been round so as some of you said he could have just been warning traffic behind him that there was a sudden slowage of traffic ahead. :thumb:


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Could be just biding his time and waiting til your guard is down. Have you checked your doors and windows are locked?


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

S63 said:


> Could be just biding his time and waiting til your guard is down. Have you checked your doors and windows are locked?


Is that supposed to scare me?


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Is that supposed to scare me?


I think more its sarcasm than scaring you..

I wouldn't be worried about the plod mate. The paperwork will be so bad to come and visit you it will take them 6 years of meetings to get approval .


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Is that supposed to scare me?


Mate, seriously, try not to get so paranoid. You'll make yourself ill over it.


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## Certi (May 5, 2011)

S63 said:


> Could be just biding his time and waiting til your guard is down. Have you checked your doors and windows are locked?





VW Golf-Fan said:


> Is that supposed to scare me?


Error 404: Sense of humour not found.


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## kenny wilson (Oct 28, 2008)

Time for someones meds?!


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

kenny wilson said:


> Time for someones meds?!


That's you been reported for that uncalled for comment.

Do you not think before you speak?


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## kenny wilson (Oct 28, 2008)

Mum!!


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

kenny wilson said:


> Mum!!


Weirdo.


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