# Snow Foam Working?



## daz1972 (Dec 4, 2009)

Just washed the car today, rinse first with power wash then snow foam applied (Autobrite Super Snow Foam) good thickness and left to dwell approx 8-10 mins rinsed but not much of a difference! Could it be i need to change to different snow foam? or is it the fact i'm unsure if the car has previously been clayed, polished and waxed properly i know when i purchased the car it had the diamondbrite treatment could this be causing problems. Please help i intend to clay, polish and wax as soon as the weather picks up.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

daz1972 said:


> Just washed the car today, rinse first with power wash then snow foam applied (Autobrite Super Snow Foam) good thickness and *left to dwell approx 8-10 mins rinsed but not much of a difference!* Could it be i need to change to different snow foam? or is it the fact i'm unsure if the car has previously been clayed, polished and waxed properly i know when i purchased the car it had the diamondbrite treatment could this be causing problems. Please help i intend to clay, polish and wax as soon as the weather picks up.


Not surprised that is a long dwell time and the product would have started to dry by then, DO NOT LET THE SOLUTION DRY :speechles


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2010)

I've started tosnow foam in the last two weeks and had a similar situation to yourself. It cleaned a bit but still left a lot on the car.

After taking advice I now pressurecwash the foam off on a reasonably high pressure rather than the low pressure I had done previously.

Also to add abit more cleaning power to the foam, this weekend I have added a 1/4 capfull of daisy apc into the snowfoam lance bottle with the snow foam.

I was very happy with the results, after washing with the two bucket method and atthe end of the was there was hardly any grit. That was after 1 weeks worth of dirt and grime.

Regards

Ben


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## daz1972 (Dec 4, 2009)

Don't get me wrong after washing with the tbm the car looks great, i was just expecting more from the snow foam, i've seen pics on here of the dirt dripping from the car with the snow foam just wondered if a better foam was out there?


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

daz1972 said:


> Don't get me wrong after washing with the tbm the car looks great, i was just expecting more from the snow foam, i've seen pics on here of the dirt dripping from the car with the snow foam just wondered if a better foam was out there?


Depends what you mean by better, I see dirt suspended in the solution, but left a few minutes before a rinse then dry.


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## trebor127 (Aug 13, 2009)

If the car was filty, then snow foam wont remove a lot of it in my experience. However, it will help too loosen the dirt from the paintwork and helps you to wash it imo

Rob


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

trebor127 said:


> If the car was filty, then snow foam wont remove a lot of it in my experience. However, it will help too loosen the dirt from the paintwork and helps you to wash it imo
> 
> Rob


Depends which product you are choosing :thumb:


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## Will-S (Jun 5, 2007)

I always find that snow foam loosens the dirt and the foam that comes off the car is loaded with dirt. There is still a film on the car that needs to be washed. If snow foam was taking this off think what it would do to your wax or sealant.


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## trebor127 (Aug 13, 2009)

Avanti said:


> Depends which product you are choosing :thumb:


It sure does, I now add a little apc if my car is filthy. But if the car was filthy, you stil have too wash it aafterwards


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Will-S said:


> I always find that snow foam loosens the dirt and the foam that comes off the car is loaded with dirt. There is still a film on the car that needs to be washed. *If snow foam was taking this off think what it would do to your wax or sealant.*


The soiling sits on top of the wax layer , the wax layer does not have to be removed to remove the soiling, of course it all depends which products you are using, but many waxes are robust and they don't have to be FK or Colli, many pressure wash shampoo's are effective and they don't have to be PH neutral :thumb:


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

trebor127 said:


> It sure does, I now add a little apc if my car is filthy. But if the car was filthy, *you* stil have too wash it aafterwards


I don't , I have posted enough demo's , if you have to add APC then change your power wash product :thumb:


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## trebor127 (Aug 13, 2009)

Avanti said:


> I don't , I have posted enough demo's , if you have to add APC then change your power wash product :thumb:


Hmm, what snowfoam do you use?


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## tuggers (Mar 18, 2009)

Ive never used Autobrite snow foam, i use elite snow foam from Alex at elite car care, I wouldnt wet the car before use, as snow foam will work better on a dry surface, it will cling better and loosen up dirt better. 

As for dirt dripping off the car, if you paint has previously been prepped ie clayed propely, and a decent coat of wax was applied, then if the car is only slightly dirty you may see a noticable difference with just a snow foam, i do with my cooper s, it has a layer of top up wax applied every 2 weeks, roughly, if however the surface has never been seen too proplerly the the snow foam will only really loosen the grime! You could try adding some shampoo to the mix, or some apc, but imo youll see the biggest difference after you have prepped and sealed the paint. Hope this helps.


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## Will-S (Jun 5, 2007)

Avanti said:


> The soiling sits on top of the wax layer , the wax layer does not have to be removed to remove the soiling, of course it all depends which products you are using, but many waxes are robust and they don't have to be FK or Colli, many pressure wash shampoo's are effective and they don't have to be PH neutral :thumb:


But, in my opinion if you need a strong enough solution to facilitate a touchless wash then surely it must compromise the layer of LSP. Most snow foams are not Ph neutral. I agree most shampoo's are


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Will-S said:


> But, in my opinion if you need a strong enough solution to facilitate a touchless wash then surely it must compromise the layer of LSP. Most snow foams are not Ph neutral. I agree most shampoo's are


Aye but you are talking about opinion, I'm talking about experience :thumb:


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

trebor127 said:


> Hmm, what snowfoam do you use?


Lot's from Swarfega vehicle wash to auto rae snow wax and autoglym pressure wash, car plan power wash shampoo, turtlewax multi purpose pressure wash shampoo the list goes on.


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## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

Did a 95% touchless wash today using Meguiars Hyper wash.

I personally believe that ALOT of the snowfoam's effectiveness comes from the pressure rinse after and of course this depends on your PW and its spec.

My PW is a Kranzle K10 FYI.


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## Will-S (Jun 5, 2007)

Avanti said:


> Aye but you are talking about opinion, I'm talking about experience :thumb:


So what you are saying is that all your snow foam's are ph neutral and that you are using them to the correct dilution ratios and that this is why your waxes are unaffected.
To be fair if this is true then yes I agree with you. However not all of the products you mention can give a touchless wash that removes all traces of grime. This part I find hard to believe


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Will-S said:


> So what you are saying is that all your snow foam's are ph neutral and that you are using them to the correct dilution ratios and that this is why your waxes are unaffected.
> To be fair if this is true then yes I agree with you. However not all of the products you mention can give a touchless wash that removes all traces of grime. This part I find hard to believe


You only have to get a panel apply some wax and offer your strongest TFR/APC/WUL mix and you can see that the wax is not removed, prolly easier to try it on glass as the wax is easier to see. So I'm not saying about all snow foams are PH nuetral, I'm saying they don't strip wax like the old wife rumours suggest too much on what is after all a sensible forum. I have tried enough times to see the effect, remember I don't apply or use top up waxes /QDs on my car, as I know there is plenty of product in the tub to replenish what is gone, however the re-applications are rarely less than 8-12 weeks away.


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## Will-S (Jun 5, 2007)

Avanti said:


> You only have to get a panel apply some wax and offer your strongest TFR/APC/WUL mix and you can see that the wax is not removed, prolly easier to try it on glass as the wax is easier to see. So I'm not saying about all snow foams are PH nuetral, I'm saying they don't strip wax like the old wife rumours suggest too much on what is after all a sensible forum. I have tried enough times to see the effect, remember I don't apply or use top up waxes /QDs on my car, as I know there is plenty of product in the tub to replenish what is gone, however the re-applications are rarely less than 8-12 weeks away.


Agree with you on several points. I never use top ups or QD's either as I feel the wax I have applied is offering more than enough protection. My Colli 476 and Megs#16 last 3 months easily without reapplication. I use snow foam once a week and always have to follow up with a wash to remove all traces of dirt. Even with these top performing waxes I never achieve a touchless wash.

I did not say that snow foams strip the wax, more that if used in the dilution ratios needed to achieve a touchless wash then surely they must compromise the LSP.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Will-S said:


> Agree with you on several points. I never use top ups or QD's either as I feel the wax I have applied is offering more than enough protection. My Colli 476 and Megs#16 last 3 months easily without reapplication. I use snow foam once a week and always have to follow up with a wash to remove all traces of dirt. Even with these top performing waxes I never achieve a touchless wash.
> 
> I am did not say that snow foams strip the wax, m*ore that if used in the dilution ratios needed to achieve a touchless wash then surely they must compromise the LSP.*


This is what I'm saying after 3 months a carnauba product will decay even if a vehicle is in a garage and not driven, dirt just sits on top of the wax layer not within it :thumb:


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## daz1972 (Dec 4, 2009)

Wow did not expect such a response i think i will carry on the same way, but defo need to get some claying done followed by nice polish and then for some Colly 476s which i recently purchased. Cheers Guys:thumb:


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Despite 100's of posts on this subject and some 28,000 members or more, not one person has come up with any sort of proof that any "Snow Foam", strips or compromises lsp in any way.

So far the only people that say such a product exists are those marketing poor products and using fear to sell those products.

Victims of marketing, nothing more.


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## Will-S (Jun 5, 2007)

Blazebro said:


> Despite 100's of posts on this subject and some 28,000 members or more, not one person has come up with any sort of proof that any "Snow Foam", strips or compromises lsp in any way.
> 
> So far the only people that say such a product exists are those marketing poor products and using fear to sell those products.
> 
> Victims of marketing, nothing more.


Then why is there so much debate on dilution ratios? If a product was pH neutral then why do so many people post new threads asking what is the correct ratio.

Your argument dictates that you put as much product into your bucket/foam lance as you like. Why do manufacturers even bother stating dilution ratios on their packaging? Is it truly marketing hype?

Has anyone come up with empirical evidence that it does not strip the LSP?

I am not looking to debate infinitum but there has to some level of truth to the argument?


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## Will-S (Jun 5, 2007)

Avanti said:


> This is what I'm saying after 3 months a carnauba product will decay even if a vehicle is in a garage and not driven, dirt just sits on top of the wax layer not within it :thumb:


I think we are agreeing with each other. I agree that dirt sits on top of the wax. My point is that you cannot remove ALL of the dirt by using snow foam alone. I have often used snow foam and thought that the finish it produces is fantastic, however to achieve a level of finish that I am happy with, I have to follow up with a proper wash. If I was happy with the finish of just snow foam then that would be the last step in my wash process.

In the past, so long as the car has a good base of wax I have used only water to wash my car. The point I am making is that ANY product will affect the longevity of your LSP if it is used at strong dilution ratios.

If this is not true then why do we not all just use washing up liquid to wash our cars??


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## wedgie (Apr 5, 2008)

I recently started using Ab's SSF and i must admit that it doesn't have the cleaning ability of my previous foam (BH autofoam).The BH foam is usual as it doesn't produce a very thick layer of foam but its cleaning abilities are second to none


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Will-S said:


> I think we are agreeing with each other. I agree that dirt sits on top of the wax. My point is that you cannot remove ALL of the dirt by using snow foam alone. I have often used snow foam and thought that the finish it produces is fantastic, however to achieve a level of finish that I am happy with, I have to follow up with a proper wash. If I was happy with the finish of just snow foam then that would be the last step in my wash process.
> 
> In the past, so long as the car has a good base of wax I have used only water to wash my car. The point I am making is that ANY product will affect the longevity of your LSP if it is used at strong dilution ratios.
> 
> If this is not true then why do we not all just use washing up liquid to wash our cars??


The dirt sits on the paintwork from being wet forming a sludge and then drying, using water will remove it, however as water and the soiling are hydrophobic, then we have to get the soiling hydrophilic, this we can do by adding detergents (making the water 'wetter') this solution will pentrate the the dry soiling but not the wax barrier, if you penetrate the soiling with detergent solution then it will rinse off with a good flow rate power washer.
Have a look at some of the vids, a lot of people apply the foam solution from top to bottom, not so effective, apply from the bottom working upwards as gravity will pull the solution down 1) allowing more product on the lower section where it is needed most and 2) gives a longer dwell to the solution at the lower section where it is needed most, the same process is applied for the rinsing.
When the wax product LSP has decayed enough the rinse water will not bead.
We don't use washing up liquid as it is a product that requires warmer water to work and other detergents are more effective on the soiling that a car is subject to. :speechles


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Will-S said:


> Then why is there so much debate on dilution ratios? If a product was pH neutral then why do so many people post new threads asking what is the correct ratio.
> 
> Your argument dictates that you put as much product into your bucket/foam lance as you like. *Why do manufacturers even bother stating dilution ratios on their packaging? Is it truly marketing hype?*
> 
> ...


Thing is most do not specify any dilution ratio at all , use as much product as is necessary but as little as required.
Whilst you say no one has come up with evidence that these products do not wax, there is more experience that shows it does not strip wax within a few washes, it was pointed out an experiment within this thread of how to test if wax is removed, cost little more to try that a swipe of wax on a glass panel :thumb:


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## chunkytfg (Feb 1, 2009)

TBH regarding the effectiveness of SF I always use the example of washing dishes to explain it.

Take one oven dish with baked on dinner on it and try and wash it. realistically it might clean most of it but there will still be stubborn bits you cant remove. So what do you do?

You soak it for 5 mins in soapy hot water. This is snow foam!

Question is though when you come back to that dish after 5 mins is the dish clean or does it still require cleaning? It needs cleaning obviously so you carry on scrubbing but less hard.

The thing is if you leave that dish to soak for long enough the dirt will come off under the pressure of the tap. So if you take snow foam it dries out after any more than 5 mins normally which is why we tend to say 4-5 mins as the dwell time but if you were to keep applying fresh layers of foam keeping it 'wet' it would in theory eventually all come off with nothing more than the pressure washer.

I have tried this and tbh it does work and on a well protected car it works very well however the cost of 3 or 4 foamings every time you wash your car just to avoid a few swirls is over the top so not really worth it.


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## LJB (Dec 28, 2008)

Hi guys in my experience if car is filthy I prespray with VP citrus prespray (ph neutral) leave to dwell for few mins then pw off, dirt is gone. I then spray snow foam for lubricating purposes and wash using tbm. Snow foam alone will help to remove and loosen dirt, but will not remove it alone.

Hope this helps


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Will-S said:


> Your argument dictates that you put as much product into your bucket/foam lance as you like. Why do manufacturers even bother stating dilution ratios on their packaging? Is it truly marketing hype?


I supposedly use one of the most agressive SF's out there. Used it 8 times and my lsp is still continuing to bead. The fact is that an LSP will eventually corrode and disappear off the vehicle. Therefore I don't understand why there is so much effort into protecting it when at the end of the day, it costs pence to reapply anyway.

Regarding dilution ratios, I've never gone by what it says on the bottle. I'll try a product a couple of times and see for myself what's best.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Blazebro said:


> I supposedly use one of the most agressive SF's out there. Used it 8 times and my lsp is still continuing to bead. The fact is that an LSP will eventually corrode and disappear off the vehicle. *Therefore I don't understand why there is so much effort into protecting it when at the end of the day, it costs pence to reapply anyway.*
> 
> Regarding dilution ratios, I've never gone by what it says on the bottle. I'll try a product a couple of times and see for myself what's best.


This part I fail to understand too via this forum, the fear concept has worked in my favour, as I have discovered that waxes are so robust , that it does not need to be 476 or FK to do an admirable task of protecting the paintwork from the elements for months on end and wash after wash after wash.


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## ChrisST (Jul 19, 2009)

I use Elite SF and find it works perfectly. I think a lot comes down to how well the paint is protected, i.e a good quality wax or sealant as I have found less dirt removal when used on other peoples cars that don't have this protection. These photos were taken on the 17/01/2010 after 3 weeks without a clean due to work,,using around 1" of SF with a dash of shampoo.


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## npinks (Feb 25, 2008)

I washed the freelander today, since the last time I PW, then super snow foam it didn't take off the grime any more than just a PW.

Today however, I applyed the SSF with a little Megs APC in to a dry car, left it as long as it took to fill 2 wash buckets and then PW it off

this time was very good, grime removed to nearly a totally clean car

a lot happier with a little APC added, then again it might gave just clung on alittle better with the car been dry


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## Will-S (Jun 5, 2007)

Avanti said:


> This part I fail to understand too via this forum, the fear concept has worked in my favour, as I have discovered that waxes are so robust , that it does not need to be 476 or FK to do an admirable task of protecting the paintwork from the elements for months on end and wash after wash after wash.


The statement is ambiguous in that it leads the reader to believe that all waxes are robust and will last months on end. All waxes are not created equal, in my experience waxes can last only weeks before needing reapplication and others, as you say, last months on end. This is based on using the same prep process for each wax.


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

tryed some turtle wax and autobrite snow foam.and was gobsmacked not at the cleaning power but that in the bottle it turned blue from green&pink.small things amuse small minds


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

Has anyone taken into consideration - 

Is it just the cold high pressure rinse that follows the snowfoam that removes the dirt?
If an equally dirty (both sides) car could be found a nice test could take place!

I am pretty impressed with the cleaning power of just a high pressure rinse from my PW, however snowfoam would be a fun little bonus.


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## Chubsley (Feb 11, 2010)

just ordered my first snow foam lance today, got a heavy duty autobrite one off the autobrite website. 

cant wait to use it but can someone give me the basics to which type of snow foam to use and when?

i got some autobrite supa snow foam (citrus) and a bottle of just the supa snow foam & wax off the autobrite website.

any help would be awesome.

thanks


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

Chubsley said:


> just ordered my first snow foam lance today, got a heavy duty autobrite one off the autobrite website.
> 
> cant wait to use it but can someone give me the basics to which type of snow foam to use and when?
> 
> ...


but about 1 inch in bottom run tap slow fill to top screw lid back on get powerwasher out aim and have fun


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

alan_mcc said:


> Has anyone taken into consideration -
> 
> Is it just the cold high pressure rinse that follows the snowfoam that removes the dirt?
> If an equally dirty (both sides) car could be found a nice test could take place!
> ...


Yes and results with PH Neutral foam suggest it's about as good. However if you use a good quality product you can stand there and litterally see grime run off a vehicle.


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## peddy (Oct 8, 2009)

I have a Niklfisk PW and I use Valet Pro's Citric pre wash, but I find it never foams on the car. Anyone have any idea why?


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## PWOOD (Apr 30, 2007)

Foaming the car and then using pressure washer to remove is only really effective if the nozzle is close enough when rinsing . Initially I stood to far back whereas now I am 7-10" away, unless there is a stone chip nearby of course.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Will-S said:


> So what you are saying is that all your snow foam's are ph neutral and that you are using them to the correct dilution ratios and that this is why your waxes are unaffected.
> To be fair if this is true then yes I agree with you. However not all of the products you mention can give a touchless wash that removes all traces of grime. This part I find hard to believe


Only got to here and an bored. If you want a full touchless wash get some truck wash, that will removesoot from a brick if left long enough.

Using a Ph neutral snow foam will never remove all the muck, just the main stuff. Just listen to the advice given.


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## peddy (Oct 8, 2009)

peddy said:


> I have a Niklfisk PW and I use Valet Pro's Citric pre wash, but I find it never foams on the car. Anyone have any idea why?


Anyone?


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## charlie32 (Nov 13, 2009)

^^^ have you got a propper foam lance (i.e not the one that comes with the niklfisk)

If so thats why, need to get yourself a foam lance


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

Mirror Finish said:


> Only got to here and an bored. If you want a full touchless wash get some truck wash, that will removesoot from a brick if left long enough.
> 
> Using a Ph neutral snow foam will never remove all the muck, just the main stuff. Just listen to the advice given.


I think thats exactly what hes saying....

Snowfoaming is a great prewash but at this time of year i dont believe anyone can perform a perfect touchless wash and not effect their LSP.

I did the Freelander last night, the snowfoam did a great job in leaving me with just the traffic film to remove via the Mitt and 2BT.

Being lazy i left the filter vessel conected through the whole wash and rinse process and was amazed how sticky the foam was mixed with filtered water!!!!

Maybe the Hardness of your water makes a bigger impact on the snowfoam?

Cheers

PaulN


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## Michael172 (Jun 9, 2007)

I stopped using the foam lance agers ago, i use a garden sprayer and apply snowfoam to the car, leave to dwel for not very long and remove with a power washer. Works very well IMHO.


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

Michael172 said:


> I stopped using the foam lance agers ago, i use a garden sprayer and apply snowfoam to the car, leave to dwel for not very long and remove with a power washer. Works very well IMHO.


I asked about this a while ago. What amount do you use is it similar to 1" per litre?

Cheers

PaulN


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## chunkytfg (Feb 1, 2009)

PaulN said:


> I asked about this a while ago. What amount do you use is it similar to 1" per litre?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> PaulN


If you go the bother of setting up your PW why would you not use a foam lance but go to the bother of setting up the sprayer?


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

PaulN said:


> I asked about this a while ago. What amount do you use is it similar to 1" per litre?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> PaulN


Inches are a measure of length ,litre is a measure of volume  
On top of that one measure is imperial the other is metric, since the diameter of bottles can vary then it is not really a guide to a dilution ratio.


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## Will-S (Jun 5, 2007)

Avanti said:


> Inches are a measure of length ,litre is a measure of volume
> On top of that one measure is imperial the other is metric, since the diameter of bottles can vary then it is not really a guide to a dilution ratio.


But earlier you said to me don't worry about dilution ratios. "Thing is most do not specify any dilution ratio at all , use as much product as is necessary but as little as required."

Not wanting to argue for the sake of it but the two statements do contradict each other. Either dilution ratios matter or they don't.


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Interesting topic. With regards to snow foam and shampoo removing the wax layer.

But unfortunately there is not an easy answer.

The Ph of the Lsp, but more importantly the Ph of the hydroponic oils contained within the LSP if we a taking about waxes must be considered. You then need to compare the PH of the wash solution and strength of the detergents contained within the Snow foam or shampoo. These will effect the hydroponic nature of the wax layer quicker causing the demise of the water repellent nature of the product.

It could also have an effect on the carnauba contained within the wax blend. For an example Carnauba can have a Ph anywhere between 2 and 7. So to use an extremely volatile detergent with a very high Ph would cause this microscope layer to fade more readily. But this is overlooking the natural oils contained within the nuba itself.

So as you see it is to vast a area to be covered as it is LSP to Lsp and Cleanser to cleanser., and we have not even touched on Polydimethylsiloxane_._ This is a very broad term used to cover a very large area where silicon_ or_ silicones are grouped. Some have a very high resilience to chemical cleansing.

Few questions. And misconceptions.

Does APC Remove the wax layer?

No it simply breaks down the natural oils within the wax killing the water repellent nature of the wax. The nuba is still present.

Again same question. But this time IPA.

As above no. Carnauba is a resin like substance and although the oils have been removed protection is still present. Carnauba is only dissolvable in ethyl acetate and Xylene and then only with the addition of heated. It is impossible to melt carnauba in Toluene.

The only true way to fully remove a previous cured carnauba wax layer is by using a decontamination kit or wash. Claying simply removes the nuba by shaving this from the surface of the car. It does not fully remove this from the pores or imperfection in the paints surface.
Gordon.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Will-S said:


> But earlier you said to me don't worry about dilution ratios. "Thing is most do not specify any dilution ratio at all , use as much product as is necessary but as little as required."
> 
> Not wanting to argue for the sake of it but the two statements do contradict each other. Either dilution ratios matter or they don't.


I am still saying that, thing is folk saying put an inch of product in seems a meaningless . Above Caledonia explains once again that waxes are removed via a method which is a little more complex than just bunging wash solution on panels and the wax 'magically' dissappears. :thumb:


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## Dunkwho (Jan 23, 2009)

ChrisST said:


> I use Elite SF and find it works perfectly. I think a lot comes down to how well the paint is protected, i.e a good quality wax or sealant as I have found less dirt removal when used on other peoples cars that don't have this protection. These photos were taken on the 17/01/2010 after 3 weeks without a clean due to work,,using around 1" of SF with a dash of shampoo.
> 
> View attachment 11372
> 
> ...


You see ... that's what I want, but its not what I'm getting  My PW is a small drapper, its shown as a good flow rate (forget the figure, its >400 tho), I'm using an AB lance and tried both the citrus and super snow foams but not got a clean car using the normal 1:10 type mix with warm water. The FK1000 is a few months old now so possibly its just not slick enough to lose the grip on the muck, or maybe I'm jetting too far from the car, or xyz.

Duncan.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Dunkwho said:


> You see ... that's what I want, but its not what I'm getting  My PW is a small drapper, its shown as a good flow rate (forget the figure, its >400 tho), I'm using an AB lance and tried both the citrus and super snow foams but not got a clean car using the normal 1:10 type mix with warm water. The FK1000 is a few months old now so possibly its just not slick enough to lose the grip on the muck, or maybe I'm jetting too far from the car, or xyz.
> 
> Duncan.


This car I cleaned last Sunday, has not been cleaned from before Xmas




























which with a pre spray of TW MPC left this



















and then after a coat of Simoniz










also on the same day earlier you can see the dirt in the suds










:thumb:


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

That looks really good Avanti.

The thing is not to be scared of using what might appear to be to the ill-informed user harsh chemicals.

I've been looking at various different kinds of TFR and truckwash. Some say non caustic, some say caustic, some include a degreasing formula, some include a wax. I've even found one which says it will remove wax :doublesho

But you know what, I'd sooner use the one which says it'll remove wax as:

1) I can guarantee I'll have a clean car afterwards.
2) I can dilute it so it won't strip wax, and I feel confident in doing so.

I'm toying with the idea of going for the TW TFR I spoke to you about Avanti.


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## Dunkwho (Jan 23, 2009)

Alright ... I'll bite ... how the hell did you manage that then !!!??? :lol:
I'll try and take similar pictures this weekend, mine'll look just a bit cleaner than your before pictures after I've blasted. Are you carefully covering every square inch of the bodywork with a close up blast to get that result (like 5cm all over) or are you able to give a normal wiping action (if I can describe it that way) with you pushing water over a smallish area to push the muck off?


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Dunkwho said:


> Alright ... I'll bite ... how the hell did you manage that then !!!??? :lol:
> 
> 
> > It's all about using the right combination of chemicals. I can get close with Actimousse, but not quite that good.
> ...


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Blazebro said:


> That looks really good Avanti.
> 
> The thing is not to be scared of using what might appear to be to the ill-informed user harsh chemicals.
> 
> ...


The 25 litre drum is a bargain although it will last forever for personal use.
I only ever use 50ml-300ml of product per wash (no inch per litre here) . 
The product that indicates it will remove wax usually those products require application via a hot water power washer I know AG do a product like that, as cars used to come with transportation wax to protect them whilst on ferries, more often now they have a film on the panels that is peeled off leving swirl marks, than too many here blame the dealership of creating


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Dunkwho said:


> Alright ... I'll bite ... how the hell did you manage that then !!!??? :lol:
> I'll try and take similar pictures this weekend, mine'll look just a bit cleaner than your before pictures after I've blasted. Are you carefully covering every square inch of the bodywork with a close up blast to get that result (like 5cm all over) or are you able to give a normal wiping action (if I can describe it that way) with you pushing water over a smallish area to push the muck off?


Look at the video carefully, you can see the dirt coming off in the rinse, that was auto rae snow wax this time iirc



Also my mate's Volvo he too would not believe a mitless wash is possible until he stood there watching me clean his car :thumb:


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

ChrisST said:


> I use Elite SF and find it works perfectly. I think a lot comes down to how well the paint is protected, i.e a good quality wax or sealant


I think this is the key. The biggest problem with reading reviews of snow foams etc and looking at before and after pics is that it is SO dependant on thats been done before. If the car was prepped well with a nice good wax then even a medeoka snow foam will do lots and equally if you get a car that has never been waxed in its life snowfoam will not perform anything like what many would expect.
Oh and temp is key. Give it a hot wash and it will also make all the difference.


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

I'm still standing strong with my light application of degreaser to the lower halfs, then a proper high pressure blast - this works fantastic even on unprotected cars.

I wish I had bought a pressure washer earlier, it would have suited me for a winter wash.


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## Scotty Pro (Nov 12, 2008)

Rob_Quads said:


> I think this is the key. The biggest problem with reading reviews of snow foams etc and looking at before and after pics is that it is SO dependant on thats been done before. If the car was prepped well with a nice good wax then even a medeoka snow foam won't do much and equally if you get a car that has never been waxed in its life snowfoam will not perform anything like what many would expect.
> Oh and temp is key. Give it a hot wash and it will also make all the difference.


Thats exactly the way I see it, I did a mini review here and was questioned as to why I didn't use a mitt after the snowfoam. Didn't need it in my opinion, Snowfoam (+ a thimble of APC) got rid of all the crap on a well prepped car (Colly Wax :thumb


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

alan_mcc said:


> *I'm still standing strong with my light application of degreaser to the lower halfs*, then a proper high pressure blast - *this works fantastic even on unprotected cars.*
> 
> I wish I had bought a pressure washer earlier, it would have suited me for a winter wash.


Did you pre spray the degreaser on?
The Merc I had intended to foam afterwards I pre sprayed with TW MPC (£3 for 4 litres) and after a rinse down, realised there was no need to apply a further wash (foam wash not bucket boys) .

Pre spraying I find more effective than foaming especially on mingers, you can see the product soak into the soiling, doesn't always have to be degreaser.
I agree about the power washer, even in winter I can wash and vac the car in a short time so much so, I wonder why many here are not washing their cars weekly.
The other thing is I keep banging on about flow rate, some are buying budget machines 'thinking' they cannot afford something more substantial, however buying a £60 machine and replacing it with a £120 quid machine simple maths shows in the long run the higher spec machine is more cost effective :thumb:


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

I use a spray bottle and sprayer head, stopped using the foaming head as I just didn't find it to have as much as bite as the actual liquid sitting on the grime. 

It certainly loosened the grime up, when followed with the PW it all blasted off.

I was also thinking, well I use CG Strong Wash at 1:10 ratio.
People may think putting this through a snow foam lance may be effective and coat the car in a nice thick foam.

But what dilution ratio will it be at now? It is just the weight of the foam pulling dirt off and nothing else?


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## peddy (Oct 8, 2009)

charlie32 said:


> ^^^ have you got a propper foam lance (i.e not the one that comes with the niklfisk)
> 
> If so thats why, need to get yourself a foam lance


What would you recommend?


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