# Help



## andyrst (Apr 6, 2009)

Hi I just finished repainting my golf black ! paint base an clear an it was sanded an reclear'd. it been done now two weeks an today I noticed sinkage/ isle's if that makes senesce, is it down to prep? I use good primers/fillers. any help would be great thanks Andrew


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## rich9 (Jan 28, 2014)

If you used 1k primer there is more risk of this kind of thing happening. Were you painting over any old repairs?

Also, not leaving filler and primer long enough before painting can do this.


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## Aaran (Sep 18, 2007)

hate shrinkage. 

most annoying thing about filler


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Any repairs That you did was the filler put directly over keyed up paint.


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## andyrst (Apr 6, 2009)

Andyb0127 said:


> Any repairs That you did was the filler put directly over keyed up paint.


it was Andy would be better taking to bare metal an filler


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

andyrst said:


> it was Andy would be better taking to bare metal an filler


Are these the areas where its sinking. Any repairs we do are taken back to bare metal then filled and will be finished with finest paper possible this way it should eliminate sinking. Seems if filler is applied directly over paint it seems to draw back and sink, specially if primer has not been left long enough to fully cure and is flatted to quick.


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## toddy23 (Jun 16, 2012)

Me personally thinks every thing will sink back if things arnt cured right,most body shops are on time scale so it's as fast as they can go,force dry filler,force dry primers and rubbing down ASAP.when I was doing my vw beetle years ago and it was abit of prep here bit ther and so on and was left for ages in 2k roller primer then I decided to block it off so done that and it was left few more weeks then masked it up and sanded over the primer with 500 and painted it,,now I had that beetle for over 12 months and I swear nothing sank back so this is my answer.also every painted product hasfaster hardener to speed the job up like 5 minute bake times,there've even got a water base hardener to speed things up if you need to put 2 or more colours on say a motor bike tank etc.


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## supernova-dw (Apr 26, 2014)

toddy23 said:


> Me personally thinks every thing will sink back if things arnt cured right,most body shops are on time scale so it's as fast as they can go,force dry filler,force dry primers and rubbing down ASAP.when I was doing my vw beetle years ago and it was abit of prep here bit ther and so on and was left for ages in 2k roller primer then I decided to block it off so done that and it was left few more weeks then masked it up and sanded over the primer with 500 and painted it,,now I had that beetle for over 12 months and I swear nothing sank back so this is my answer.also every painted product hasfaster hardener to speed the job up like 5 minute bake times,there've even got a water base hardener to speed things up if you need to put 2 or more colours on say a motor bike tank etc.


Completley agree with you! As I'm not in a rush with my work in General I let my primer dry for 24 Hours before sanding and never have any problem with shrinkage even though I sand my filler with P80.

If you rush things they generally go wrong, the same as 1K stopper which gets an awful name as people start sanding it back before it's fully cured however if you let it go off properly then you'll have no problems!


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## Scoobycarl (Aug 13, 2011)

It does depend on how quick you need things done but unfortunately in bodyshops there is a time factor that is forefront in the plans for jobs ! Saying this i think if a large area is primed with plenty of 2k primer it must be left over night ! I put my gaffers back up a bit last thursday when he booked a 12 plate polo with a bad door and quarter repair in (should have been a new 1/4 panel but the guy couldn't afford it so went for a repair instead but the shape in those panels are tough to get right ) any how i started about 11 oclock wednesday morning and the filler work needed some more work so i finished it off next morning and primed it about 11 am and i think he would have liked me to infa red lamp and prep it that day but it needed to be left alone to dry and sink lol left it all day and all night to air dry naturally and he had a face like a baby's smacked **** lol


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## andyrst (Apr 6, 2009)

would air drying be ok? what would be the best way to go about fixing it now?


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

andyrst said:


> Hi I just finished repainting my golf black ! paint base an clear an it was sanded an reclear'd. it been done now two weeks an today I noticed sinkage/ isle's if that makes senesce, is it down to prep? I use good primers/fillers. any help would be great thanks Andrew


Hi as andy said....

This is down to the area of paint around the repair ...you took repair back to bare metal with 80g ....fill ...sand with 80g to shape ....these scratches are normally in the paint area too !

next skim of filler you think ok right over the lot including bridging paint to repair This is where it goes wrong .

You now have 2 substrates that move at different rates with filler on them ....bare metal and paint ! the scratches you made in the paint with the 80g is now pulling the filler into the scratch as it shrinks this creating the marks your seeing then the primer moves as so dose the paint !

The remedy I would think if you heat the effected panels to bake temp and allow to cool ...bake again and allow to cool

Then all the shrinking has done as such BUT the filler is still sitting on top of the paint...

so you have 2 options bake and sand the area flat ....dust a little base and re clear the panel

take it back and make the repair wider and refine the repair and re prime base and clear (danger of a boil up tho if using solvent base !

Hope this helps

Tommy


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## andyrst (Apr 6, 2009)

Thanks tommy I will take it back an redo it again, thanks


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

As tommy said two different materials working against each other. Only solution is to take it back to bare metal and start again, prob not what you wanted to hear mate. Primer wise if its a project then 2k prime it and infa-red it then leave it for as long as possible to fully cure in draw into the repair. Or if you have the time once filler id completed, use a polyester spray filler, flat it with P180 then apply a 2k primer and leave for the longest time you can. Trouble with body shops now is the time constraints of how quick jobs have to be turned out. Which is why I left where I used to work as everything was rush rush it was all about the end of month figures, now where I am im left alone and tell them how long the job will take as id rather have a happy customer, my manager may not like it but that's the way it is with me. :thumb:


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

There is maybe one other explanation - too much hardener in the filler will cause a lot more noticeable shrinkage.


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## Scoobycarl (Aug 13, 2011)

Andyb0127 said:


> As tommy said two different materials working against each other. Only solution is to take it back to bare metal and start again, prob not what you wanted to hear mate. Primer wise if its a project then 2k prime it and infa-red it then leave it for as long as possible to fully cure in draw into the repair. Or if you have the time once filler id completed, use a polyester spray filler, flat it with P180 then apply a 2k primer and leave for the longest time you can. Trouble with body shops now is the time constraints of how quick jobs have to be turned out. Which is why I left where I used to work as everything was rush rush it was all about the end of month figures, now where I am im left alone and tell them how long the job will take as id rather have a happy customer, my manager may not like it but that's the way it is with me. :thumb:


Well said mate ! Managers manage its us that fix em lol


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