# Werkstat Acrylic Kit Advice



## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

Spent 5 hours or so yesterday detailing my 2009 Championship White Civic Type R with the Werkstat Acrylic kit. 

I've previously only ever used wax on my cars (Mainly Dodo Supernatural) but reading up on the Werkstat kit I thought I'd give it a go on the CTR.

My routine was.
Wash with Werkstat Auto Shampoo.
Dry with Dodo Juice Microfibre
Clayed with Born to be slippy lube & Supernatural clay
Polished with Menzerna 203s using a German applicator
Then the Werkstat Acrylic kit. ( 1 coat of Prime followed by 2 coats of Jett)

I have to say I'm not that happy with the results. The finish seems to lack depth and reflectivity. Certainly no better than it was using Dodo Supernatural wax. 

Am I expecting too much on a white car ? I realise that it's a difficult colour to get a great finish on but I was expecting more after seeing some of the finishes that Polished Bliss got using the same kit.


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## organisys (Jan 3, 2012)

The Kit's biggest strength to me is in bringing out flake pop on light coloured metallics.
I've not used it on a white car, but I'd assume you should get a nice crisp clean look, rather than more of a warm glow though? which is what you might be more used to with the DJ SN?


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

Yeah it should look really Glossy. 1 prime 2 of Jett, but I always give a coat of Glos to finish. Never been underwhelmed by using it. Im trying other products now but its still great to use.

G


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

I've got the Glos but didn't use it. Might give it a coat tonight to see how that looks.

Here's how it looks now.


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

Yeah maybe give it a go......problem with white is its generally a flat colour, so to get gloss and shine out of it would make it better.


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## horned yo (Feb 10, 2009)

The kit is really meant to be used together which is probably why you are not impressed. I have used it on many white cars and its pretty special stuff


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

The way I read it I though the GLOS was a quick detailer to be used after washing. Serve me right for not reading up properly


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## horned yo (Feb 10, 2009)

BUT YOUR TYPE R IS LIKE AN OFF WHITE WHICH MIGHT BE HAVING AN EFFECT. i HAVE ONLY EVER USED IT ON BRILLIANT WHITE. i DO LIKE THE WERK SEALANT


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

Agree it is a creamy white. I'll do the coat of GLOS when I get in tonight and hope the finish comes up better


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## great gonzo (Nov 4, 2010)

I have used the werkstatt kit and never liked the finish it gave on my silver Subaru. I went back to the dodo waxes and was blown away by the nicer finish. The prime is a very good paint cleaner tho and the gloss is a good quick detailer I just think that the trigger lets it down, I also don't like the fact you have to put loads of coats on to achieve standard looks. Durability is not as good as quoted either.


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

I've not used the werkstat kit but I have been trying to find a combo to get my white e36 really glossy. I think I've finally settled on Autobrite extreme glaze 1 coat, 2 coats of Seal & protect, 2 coats of Project 32:


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## great gonzo (Nov 4, 2010)

Sounds like a nice combo :thumb:


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

I always used to use Dodo Supernatural on my 01G silver Impreza and loved the results. Maybe I should of stuck to what i knew


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## Th3Doctor (Feb 2, 2010)

Not sure but was I talking to you about this via PM on CIVINFO?


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## wanner69 (Mar 14, 2010)

I've been using SNH and topping with V7 but wanted to try werkstatt and I am getting a far better finish now than I ever did. Check out some pics I uploaded in the reflection thread. Mines the RS white megane nr the top of the last page
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=194940&page=31&highlight=Reflection


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

Th3Doctor said:


> Not sure but was I talking to you about this via PM on CIVINFO?


Certainly was fella


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

wanner69 said:


> I've been using SNH and topping with V7 but wanted to try werkstatt and I am getting a far better finish now than I ever did. Check out some pics I uploaded in the reflection thread. Mines the RS white megane nr the top of the last page
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=194940&page=31&highlight=Reflection


Civinfo too 

Looks a whole lot better than mine!! Sh1t Honda paint ??


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

Heres my car with the Werkstat. Should notice it shine and be as glossy as you like.

Lick it !


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

Looks great fella. Just been looking over mine and tbh the finish seems to lack the gloss of a wax, and the feel of the paint is almost dry if that makes sense?? None of the gloss or liquid look that the above picture has.


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## steve67 (Jun 26, 2010)

here's my golf with werkstat, i'm quite happy with the finish, but as ever i want better depth etc.


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

B0DSKI said:


> Looks great fella. Just been looking over mine and tbh the finish seems to lack the gloss of a wax, and the feel of the paint is almost dry if that makes sense?? None of the gloss or liquid look that the above picture has.


Daft question, but you went through the usual de-contamination, prep etc first? Removing Iron, Tar etc etc? Bear in mind mine has a few layers on it, but you should see a difference, literally from using it once.

Is your paint metallic or non?


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

I used the Iron X just after I got the car and before I waxed with Dodo Supernatural. I didn't use it again this time as it was only 6 weeks ago. The paint came up nice and smooth after the claying.

It's a non metallic


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

B0DSKI said:


> I used the Iron X just after I got the car and before I waxed with Dodo Supernatural. I didn't use it again this time as it was only 6 weeks ago. The paint came up nice and smooth after the claying.
> 
> It's a non metallic


Hmmmmm, im quite stumped really lol.


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## Sneak Attack (Mar 1, 2012)

Honda paint is usually thin and very soft but that's no reason to experience the dryness or disappointing looks. 

I've never liked waxes on white; always look soft and sort of rounded to me; like if you play with the sharpness control on a TV. 

Werkstat tends to work really well on white. 

My suspicion is that the 203S hasn't been worked/broken down properly. 

With a wax, this can be less of an issue as a wax will tend to mask or fill slight defects. 

The Werkstat kit does have a tendency to show up defects; it won't fill or glaze over fine marks and this, I suspect, is the issue. 

With regard to Werkstat, running through the process:
What type of pad did you use to apply Prime? 
How many panels did you apply to at a time/how long did you leave it on the panel?
Jett: how did you apply and buff? How much product did you use (roughly) per coat?


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

I used http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/meguiars-microfibre-applicator-pad-cat24.html to apply the Prime.

I did one panel at a time, working the Prime into the paint until nearly dry then buffing with a microfibre.
Exactly the same for the Jett.

I got through roughly a quarter of a bottle of Prime and maybe a third of the Jett.

I know exactly what you mean about showing up more defects. I notice more swirls (even after the 203S) than I did when it was waxed.

I may invest in a machine polisher in the long term if I keep the car to get rid of these.

Just off to do a covering of GLOS now.....Wish me luck


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

B0DSKI said:


> .
> 
> I got through roughly a quarter of a bottle of Prime and maybe a third of the Jett.


Sounds as tho' you have used a hell of a lot of the products there. :doublesho Especially with the Jett, less is more. You only need a tiny bit per panel.

I'm in Grommit's camp here about the Werkstat acrylic kit. One of the best detailing products I've used.

We have two white cars, a solid white Audi A4 and a pearlescent white Abarth 500.

These are the finishs I am continually getting -

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=266216&highlight=werkstat

Have just a full decontamination detail on the Audi, but haven't had chance to take any pics yet.

I would say the finish I have achieved is even better than the above link :thumb:

Could be using too much of the product there mate


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

It was two coats of Jett


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## Th3Doctor (Feb 2, 2010)

B0DSKI said:


> I got through roughly a quarter of a bottle of Prime and maybe a third of the Jett.





Bristle Hound said:


> Sounds as tho' you have used a hell of a lot of the products there. :doublesho Especially with the Jett, less is more. You only need a tiny bit per panel.


^^^^This. Way way too much product.


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

Incidentally would people class Honda Paint as being of lesser quality than Subaru??


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

By using too much product why would I get sub standard results?


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

BBL GLOSS time


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

B0DSKI said:


> It was two coats of Jett


For a third of the bottle? :doublesho

I've just checked my bottle of AJT. I have about 10 - 15% left. I would estimate I've given the Audi about 30 coats and the Abarth about 6 - 7 coats.
Still reckon I've got at least 10 coats left in the bottle.


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## lesdon499 (Oct 30, 2011)

I love this stuff. It does exactly what it says and delivers crisp and clear results :thumb:


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## wanner69 (Mar 14, 2010)

B0DSKI said:


> Civinfo too
> 
> Looks a whole lot better than mine!! Sh1t Honda paint ??


yes mate civinfo, as you say it could be the off white crap honda paint.


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## Sneak Attack (Mar 1, 2012)

I still think the Menz not being broken down is the root of the issue; the Werkstat is highlighting the defects whereas the wax was masking them. 

I can't see why too much product would give poor results; but it just makes it very expensive! 

As a rule of thumb, I estimate at least 30 coats from one 500ml bottle of Jett on a Civic/Golf sized car. 

Prime would be about the same, maybe slightly fewer applications per bottle. Difficult to say for sure as I use Prime on glass, wheels, exhausts etc, not just paint. 

To solve the issue, I'd go again, use the Menz, but work it in smaller areas, work it harder and for longer. You might have to do a couple of panels in a day and work round the car in stages to get the right result; it'll take a while, even on soft Honda paint.

::edit:: just re-read post 25 and I wonder if the swirls you're seeing is in fact micromarring from the polish not being worked fully. Either way, the solution is to work the polish longer and harder.


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

Cheers Sneak. Appreciate the comments. 

No need to clay again then?? Just rework the Menz? Might treat myself to a Rotary or DA to make things easier.


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## Sneak Attack (Mar 1, 2012)

B0DSKI said:


> Cheers Sneak. Appreciate the comments.
> 
> No need to clay again then?? Just rework the Menz? Might treat myself to a Rotary or DA to make things easier.


Decide on the clay by running your fingertips over the paint when it's wet; if it's rough or slightly sticky to touch, then clay.

I'd 100% recommend a DA for this; the very soft Honda paint and a rotary could prove tricky; you could end up with some serious micromarring/hologramming, especially as I assume you're less experienced with a machine?

If I had your car in front of me, I'd leave my Makita in the case and use my DA; it's the right tool for this job.

If you go for a DA, a standard DAS6 Kestrel will be fine; if you're thinking of changing the car in the future, maybe go for a Power Plus, but the standard one is a great bit of kit. For Honda paint I'd use either a Lake Country Hydro Tech Crimson pad or a Lake Country Constant Pressure Orange.

Start with a finishing polish (Menz 85RE) and step up to 203S only if you really need to.

Try a panel by hand working the polish longer and see what you think first maybe? It might not take that much more effort to get the right result.


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

Never used a either a DA or a rotary before in my life lol. And the thought of it is quite intimidating especially as it seems the Honda paint is very soft. 

I added a coat of GLOS last night and it did seem to add a bit more wetness and depth to the finish. Still not happy with it. I was going to snap some pictures of the finish afterwards but went out for a few and time I got back it was raining. 

If it stops later I'll post a few up. 

Cheers for the help


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## wanner69 (Mar 14, 2010)

B0DSKI said:


> Never used a either a DA or a rotary before in my life lol. And the thought of it is quite intimidating especially as it seems the Honda paint is very soft.
> 
> I added a coat of GLOS last night and it did seem to add a bit more wetness and depth to the finish. Still not happy with it. I was going to snap some pictures of the finish afterwards but went out for a few and time I got back it was raining.
> 
> ...


Persevere with it mate. I would start over and do a full detox of your paint work then for better results apply prime by DA and follow up with layers of Jett and top off with the Glos. A da is nothing to worry about mate even on soft jap paint.


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

Looks like it's going to be another hard day at the micro fibre then 

Anybody tried one of these ??

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAR-BOAT-...=WDVW&rd=1&ih=024&category=72201&cmd=ViewItem


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## Sneak Attack (Mar 1, 2012)

B0DSKI said:


> Looks like it's going to be another hard day at the micro fibre then
> 
> Anybody tried one of these ??
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAR-BOAT-...=WDVW&rd=1&ih=024&category=72201&cmd=ViewItem


Rotary. Not what I'd recommend to be honest.

Out of stock, but this would be ideal: http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/pb-soft-paint-polishing-kit-cat1.html


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

Thought it looked too good to be true  

Excuse my total ignorance but how does a DA differ to a rotary ??


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## Sneak Attack (Mar 1, 2012)

B0DSKI said:


> Thought it looked too good to be true
> 
> Excuse my total ignorance but how does a DA differ to a rotary ??


A rotary, the head of the machine rotates round a fixed point.

A DA, the head orbits in an eccentric fashion.

In essence, the rotary is capable of a higher work rate; in terms of polishing it will, in theory, give more cut. However, it also generates more heat and, more cut means more paint is being removed in a given length of time.

In my view, this makes them less suited to a beginner.

A DA will remove less paint, but also generates less heat and there's much less risk of damaging the paint surface than with a rotary.

The motion of the head of the rotary, and the need to break down abrasives within polishes, can increase the risk of micromarring/hologramming of the finish, especially on softer paints.

The DA makes this less likely and on softer paints, it's generally easier to get a sharper (ie micromarring-free) finish with a DA.

There's always a compromise, but in this situation, with your car's paint and the problems you've had, and taking into account you're new to machine polishing, a DA would be my recommendation.

There's some nice, in-depth guides on PB's site: http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/what-does-polishing-do.html and here: http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/what-polish-should-i-use.html


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

Once again thanks fella


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## cossierick (Jan 19, 2011)

Just to put my 10p's worth.

I recently did my mums electric blue mini, the cars done in excess of 100k and although it gets washed i think its prob had a dozen coats of polish/wax in its 9yr life.

I washed,cleaned, de tar, clayed then buffed using 3m extrafine . 
Used the prime then jett and to be honest the finish was stunning, so easy to use and gave a great gloss/reflectiveness.
The downside for me was durabuilty and lack of beading (but i belive thats down to it being an acrylic rather than wax)
Ive washed it with the werkstat shampoo every week but its just lacking durabuilty

rick


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## DOBE (May 4, 2012)

Keeping my eye on this thread, same car mate and using the same products as yourself Dodo Juice SNH and got good results on my champ white, but reading a few posts on here and on civinfo ( another 1) about the werkstat acrylic kit I think it's the way to go.

As a few have said maybe the car wasn't prepped properly for the kit, I'll be buying it once polished bliss get it back in stock.

My wife has a white 1 series so I'll try some werkstat on that aswell and compare the two, and see if our paint is crap!

Heres a pic of mine after clay,DA and topped with SNH earlier in the year.


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## wanner69 (Mar 14, 2010)

Hey up DOBE:thumb:


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## DOBE (May 4, 2012)

wanner69 said:


> Hey up DOBE:thumb:


How goes it wanner?


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## Hunty (May 21, 2009)

Keep going with this one buddy, you should be happy with it when you get it right!

Just a quick one on the durability issues, I found it doesn't bead as well, but for my winter prep last year I used Prime followed by 2 layers of Jett. Then a week later 2 layers of SNH. Was great and the car was not touched wax wise for around 6 months due to children and work. It wasn't a harsh winter but was still happy with the protection it provided.

I didn't see it mentioned, but I apply prime to the whole car and leave it for 20 mins, then remove the haze. Sounded like too much prime used to me.

Hope you get it sorted pal.

Neil


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

Werkstat acrylic Jett gives glassy *flat* look "mirror finish" while the waxes gives more wetness "dynamic shine" even on white colour . SN - RG55 - Victoria concours - p21s concours wax gives nice result on white colour .


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

Your car better not come out better than mine DOBE 

Think I'm going to invest in a Kestrel DAS6 as Sneak suggested. Certainly going to make getting rid of the swirl marks which are much more in evidence now the SN has been stripped off easier to get rid of. I'm amazed how well the SN covered them tbh.

The beading yesterday was pretty good. The beads were certainly larger in size before they ran off the paintwork. I find a good test is to see how much you need to blow them to get them to move lol.

Here's a picture from yesterday's downpours


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

Right just got to work and snapped a few off (Excuse the iPhone camera quality again)

GLOS went on Thursday night. Rained all day yesterday, drove to and from work (30 mile round trip in the sh1te weather) and again this morning, although today is nice so far. Car has not been touched since Thursday night.

To be honest now the GLOS is on and the car's not covered in water beading I think the finish is pretty good. Not quite what I was expecting still and I'm still going down the DA route and start from scratch but not as poor a result as without the GLOS (surprise surprise)


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## DOBE (May 4, 2012)

B0DSKI said:


> Your car better not come out better than mine DOBE
> 
> Think I'm going to invest in a Kestrel DAS6 as Sneak suggested. Certainly going to make getting rid of the swirl marks which are much more in evidence now the SN has been stripped off easier to get rid of. I'm amazed how well the SN covered them tbh.


You need to get it right before I buy it!

Maybe the prep is the key here, as you said hitting it with a DA before applying the werkstat might produce better results.

I started a thread about what to get after my SNH was finished and most suggested the werkstat.

Maybe it's just our championship cream paint!


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## B0DSKI (Nov 25, 2011)

Lol you're not the only person thinking that mate


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