# Got shunted, advice please



## Scotch

Last Wednesday on the way home, someone went in to the back of me, not impressed.  Just waiting in a line of traffic going on to a roundabout.

Did the usuall, swapped names, addresses etc. I have informed my insurance company and they have put a note on my policy.

Speaking to the person who went in to me, they dont really seem to be bothered about sorting this issue out :wall: . I dont think they have bothered to let their insurers know.

The few options are now as follows
1) Tell them to either pay up or I go through their insurers for the damage they did to my car
2) Let my insurance do the work for me.

Note: No one stopped as a witness. Though the police dog van driver did have a good look on the way passed

Advice please


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## bigmc

Let your insurance do the work for you that's why we pay them extortionate amounts of money each year.


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## President Swirl

The third party being slow to deal with the issue on their end usually indicates guilt. Worse case scenario go through the Insurance ombudsman.


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## Brazo

Given your insurers already know you have had an accident and will penalise you upon renewal time (Fault irrelevant) you may as well follow it through and claim!


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## Shiny

Can i ask a couple of questions?

1. What cover do you have (eg Comp/TFP&T)?
2. Do you have all the TP's details, including the vehicle reg no & insurance details?
3. Are you through a Broker or direct with an Insurer?
4. Do you have legal expenses cover under your policy?

We can take it from there.


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## Shiny

Oh, and will you need a courtesy car etc whilst yours is in for repair?


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## Scotch

I know I will get stiffed on the insurace next time, really pi$$ed off about it, 17 years no claims and then this

Shiny, will PM you info. Thanks.


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## Shiny

I've pm'd a lengthy reply, let me know if makes sense or if you need any further help. :thumb:

Cheers


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## Scotch

Hi

Yes got your PM. It makes sense, thanks for that.:thumb:

I will keep you posted, should be hearing more today.

Cheers and thanks again.


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## xJay1337

To be honest if you can sort things out side of insurance then do that.
Insurance is a legal requirement and most of the time when you actually need it they magically become an even bigger pain in the **** to deal with. A majority of crashes are nothing more than fender benders, bumps at roundabouts etc and the cost to repair is under £1000.

Presuming it's only a bumper repair/replacmenet that would only be about £200-£400 which considering most people's excess is about £250-500 then it would make little sense to use your insurance. Bumper off ebay and a pro respray job... eg not due to an accident or anything but - I changed to a facelift bumper from a Jetta. Bumper cost me £50, all the grills cost me £85, paint cost £100 and I fitted it myself.

Although it depends on the person you're in the accident with. If they are proper they would offer to pay, get quotes etc within a reasonable time scale (perhaps a week or two depending when they're paid).

If you doubt them then go through your insurance but even though you are not at fault your premiums will rise, and you'll also get 150 different calls a day from various "claim to gain" companies....


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## Shiny

Not all Insurers load for a non-fault accident with a full recovery. The only drawback of claiming off your own insurance is that, if a full recovery of the Insurer's outlay has not been made at the time of renewal, NCB will be "held in abeyance". However, once the claim is settled, NCB will be reinstated and any extra premium paid as result of the accident will be reimbursed. The other options are credit repair through his legal expenses providers or to see if the TP Insurers will authorise repairs direct, but both these options could take time.

Scotch has been hit in the rear whilst he was sat there minding his own business. He shouldn't need to be flaffing around buying bumpers of ebay. 

I've emailed Scotch a few options on how he may wish to deal with the claim, with advantages & disadvantages to both. Obviously it is up to Scotch to decide the best way that suits him, but hopefully he can now see what choices he has.


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## xJay1337

With respect, "faffing" around buying bumper? Takes 2 minutes!! Ebay <car> <front/rear> bumper . Buy. Delivered to a bodyshop of your choice. Painted. Fitted. Boosh.

I hear what you saying - he shouldn't have to _bother _- but at the sake of risking an increased premium (regardless of whether his NCB is still in place, being a victim of an accident makes you more likely to crash, apparently, thus your wallet gets raped even more) that's likely to cost no more than a few hundred quid to get repaired (obviously depending on damage) will be charged £2000 by insurance repairers who probably won't do the job right anyway.
I know someone who got shunted by a lorry and the rear of her car was a right mess. Many hours of stupid phonecalls to solicitors and insurance companies her car eventually got sorted (I think) maybe month(s) later.

I'm sure Scotch will make the decision which is best for him at the end of the day.


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## Shiny

This still involves an outlay that has to then be recovered from the third party. Also, there will no courtesy car during repairs, unless the garage agree this. We don't know what car Scotch has or how old it is, so an ebay bumper may not be a favourable option.

TP instructed/authorised repairs will be the best option, provided of course the TP Insurers offer this. For Scotch this will mean no outlay, a courtesy car, guaranteed body shop repairs and no effect on his NCB. But he is at the mercy of the TP Insurers with regard to time scales.


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## Shiny

How did this go in the end Scotch?


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## talisman

yes any updates?..


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## andy monty

xJay1337 said:


> With respect, "faffing" around buying bumper? Takes 2 minutes!! Ebay <car> <front/rear> bumper . Buy. Delivered to a bodyshop of your choice. Painted. Fitted. Boosh.


Then you take the bumper off and find the impact rail is bent that impact rail is bolted to the chassis legs which have built in weak points to crumple / splay out adsorbing the impact in a controlled way ......

It only takes a very minor knock with modern cars to damage these parts and can easy write the car off

Yes its ok it been cosmetically good but what if your hit a bit harder next time and these bits are already weakened you could end up with a greater injury than if the bits are all intact

Also damage to number plate wiring etc / parking sensors soon adds up if you cant DIY it.....

take the little fiat 500 rear cross rail is £85 retail

http://fiat-500.sgpetch.co.uk/pages/parts/detail/category=ROOT-body/engine=41/part=7074


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## xJay1337

You would apply common sense as to whether there was severe (or any) major structural issue.
Generally and especially on cars these days if the airbags go off then there's a chance you will be in for a large repair bill for mechanical parts.
But if you say have a 5-10mph bang that does a headlight or a bumper then you are not going to have any major headaches.

I understand what you are saying and I agree but let's use some common sense here - if you are pissing coolant or oil or other fluids out then obviously you can't just replace the bumper and go but if you have a smashed headlight and a scuffed bumper then why not?? what I'm saying is for a small cost of what you'd be charged if you took it to a bodyshop, you could have your car back to new.


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## Glaschu

xJay1337 said:


> You would apply common sense as to whether there was severe (or any) major structural issue.
> Generally and especially on cars these days if the airbags go off then there's a chance you will be in for a large repair bill for mechanical parts.
> But if you say have a 5-10mph bang that does a headlight or a bumper then you are not going to have any major headaches.


You can cause serious damage to a modern car even with a 5-10 mph bump, depending on the point of impact. The way they are designed nowadays is to dissipate the force throughout the car, so even a very minor bump can cause structural damage, damage which may not be immediately apparent on inspection, particularly if one doesn't know exactly how/where that particular car absorbs an impact.

The other issue is that the way modern plastic bumpers are constructed they can pop back into shape, masking more serious damage. I've seen rear end bumps where it just looks like a scuffed bumper skin, but the rail has actually been pushed into the rear panel and it's that and the boot floor that have taken the brunt of the impact.


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## andy monty

xJay1337 said:


> You would apply common sense as to whether there was severe (or any) major structural issue.
> Generally and especially on cars these days if the airbags go off then there's a chance you will be in for a large repair bill for mechanical parts.
> But if you say have a 5-10mph bang that does a headlight or a bumper then you are not going to have any major headaches.
> 
> I understand what you are saying and I agree but let's use some common sense here - if you are pissing coolant or oil or other fluids out then obviously you can't just replace the bumper and go but if you have a smashed headlight and a scuffed bumper then why not?? what I'm saying is for a small cost of what you'd be charged if you took it to a bodyshop, you could have your car back to new.


I was using common sense as Glaschu says its VERY easy to do a lot of damage  some little old lady in a old Pug hit my sisters KA a good few years ago.....

She rolled into front corner of the ka.....

Visibly it was fine... Till you tried to move it the impact rail had been shoved back into the front left wheel...

The headlight was intact but all brackets broken.... 
Then the wing needed replacing as the metal headlamp bracket had been sheared off the back of the wing,

The radiator mount had broken on that side too cant remember if it was on the radiator on the "frame"

All in all it came to about £800 repair bill incl labour (not counting the courtesy car and all the other bits)

Just dont want the OP to be in the position that he gets a few hundred quid cash to replace / respray the bumper only to have the body shop ring him up 2 hours later and say oh along with the bumper you also need another £500+ remedial work to put it right........


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## Scotch

Update you say...

Well so far it is like this. Said to insurance company, could you deal with this. Gave over the details (took 3rd party a few days to sort this... I know) and they looked in to it.

Got a mail last Friday saying that the 3rd parties insurers have no record of the policy/details given. I have sent the details again to my insurers just to make sure someone has not written anything down wrong. 

If it turns out that there is no record of this person having any insurance it will be going to the police.

May get my next door neighbour to have a look at the car and see if there is any other damage. He is one of the few mechanics I trust.


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## Glaschu

Scotch said:


> Update you say...
> 
> Well so far it is like this. Said to insurance company, could you deal with this. Gave over the details (took 3rd party a few days to sort this... I know) and they looked in to it.
> 
> Got a mail last Friday saying that the 3rd parties insurers have no record of the policy/details given. I have sent the details again to my insurers just to make sure someone has not written anything down wrong.
> 
> If it turns out that there is no record of this person having any insurance it will be going to the police.
> 
> May get my next door neighbour to have a look at the car and see if there is any other damage. He is one of the few mechanics I trust.


That's why I call the police if I'm ever involved in an rta, regardless of whether there's injury or not.


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## andy monty

Scotch said:


> Update you say...
> 
> Well so far it is like this. Said to insurance company, could you deal with this. Gave over the details (took 3rd party a few days to sort this... I know) and they looked in to it.
> 
> Got a mail last Friday saying that the 3rd parties insurers have no record of the policy/details given. I have sent the details again to my insurers just to make sure someone has not written anything down wrong.
> 
> If it turns out that there is no record of this person having any insurance it will be going to the police.
> 
> May get my next door neighbour to have a look at the car and see if there is any other damage. He is one of the few mechanics I trust.


thats not sounding good :wall:

if the worst comes to the worst

this might come in handy

http://www.mib.org.uk/Customer+Services/en/Making+a+claim/default.htm


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## xJay1337

andy monty said:


> -text-/QUOTE]
> 
> Ford KA is not exactly known for being a well build, safe car.
> Do that in something like an Audi or a BM and you'd be fine.
> I'm just saying there are more than 2 ways to skin a cat and 75% of the time in a low speed bang a bumper is all that's required!


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## andy monty

xJay1337 said:


> andy monty said:
> 
> 
> 
> -text-/QUOTE]
> 
> Ford KA is not exactly known for being a well build, safe car.
> Do that in something like an Audi or a BM and you'd be fine.
> I'm just saying there are more than 2 ways to skin a cat and 75% of the time in a low speed bang a bumper is all that's required!
> 
> 
> 
> back in the day it was as safe as any other supermini on the road.... hit by another soft if not softer supermini...
> 
> Run a new BMW into another new BMW and all that energy has to go somewhere
> 
> Factor in with newer cars with reactive head restraints for rear end bumps.... even a minor bump is going to cost a sodding fortune
Click to expand...


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## Scotch

Good news everybody..

They have found the 3rd parties insurer. After a search on the number plate.

They have given me a list of 2 garages they would like me to take my car to, but I would prefer to take it to the Honda dealer, I know they can get the parts and have the job done in the morning.

Lloyd... any advice on that one?


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## Shiny

Good news!

Get a quote from the Honda garage and then get a quote from another bodyshop that is more expensive than Honda. Then submit the Honda quote together with the second more expensive quote saying you would rather go with Honda who happen to be the cheaper of the two. 

Only thing is though, if you don't use their approved repairer, you may not get a courtesy car.


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## Scotch

When you ask a man who knows... 

Thanks Lloyd

Not worried about the courtesy car really. If the Honda garage can get the part in and get it done in the morning, the others should be able to do the same.

Cheers


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## Shiny

The garages will probably get the part from the Honda dealer anyway, so it shouldn't take much longer.

If it needs a new bumper, these normally get shipped from Honda Belgium and are pre sprayed in your colour before they are shipped.


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## Glaschu

Scotch said:


> Good news everybody..
> 
> They have found the 3rd parties insurer. After a search on the number plate.
> 
> They have given me a list of 2 garages they would like me to take my car to, but I would prefer to take it to the Honda dealer, I know they can get the parts and have the job done in the morning.
> 
> Lloyd... any advice on that one?


It's not up to the other party or their insurers to dictate who carries out the repair work. If you want it done by the Honda main agent then insist that's where it gets done.


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## Shiny

But there is also a duty to mitigate the loss, so if the Honda garage are much more expensive that other garages, this could cause problems. If Scotch can show the Honda rates are reasonable or cheaper than others, then there shouldn't be a problem.


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## Morph78

When my mate had a claim after being hit whilst parked at the side of the road, the insurers said they wanted it taken to Garage X, he wanted to take it to Garage A.
Insurers told him that he can take it to Garage A but wouldn't get a courtesy car.
He took it to Garage X as he needed a car and they did an excellent job.

I had a claim quite a few years back where I got hit from behind. After 3 years of trying to find the 3rd party it went to the MIB (not Will Smith/Toomy Lee Jones)
Who then asked for all the details again and asked in MY opinion whose fault the accident was?
My reply "For 3 years I've been filling out statements and diagrams and answered any questions about the accident and the 3rd party has been avoiding all letters and moved twice, who do you think is trying to hide something?"


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## Glaschu

Shiny said:


> But there is also a duty to mitigate the loss, so if the Honda garage are much more expensive that other garages, this could cause problems. If Scotch can show the Honda rates are reasonable or cheaper than others, then there shouldn't be a problem.


I think you'd have a case to argue for a newish car if you wanted to use a bodyshop approved by your vehicle's manufacturer rather than some backstreet place preferred by the third party or their insurer.


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## Shiny

To be fair though, "approved repairers" have to meet certain quality standards and offer guarantees on work, so they are unlikely to be back street garages. The insurers agreed rates with them are quite strict, with a pre agreed labour rate and and often little or no mark up on parts. However, they offer a constant stream of work so many garages are happy to accept the terms.

Scotch is well within his rights to have the car repaired where he wishes, but in the same respect he has a duty to mitigate his loss. An exaggeration here, but if the approved repairers want £40 an hour labour and the general going rate for the area is £40/50 an hour, but Honda are charging £120 an hour labour to do the same job with the same parts, on a 10 hour job that will mean that the job costs £800 more than it needs to. The Insurers shouldn't have to pay £800 more than it would normally cost to repair the vehicle elsewhere. They could agree that the car is repaired there, but could insist that they will only paying the going rate, so Scotch could end up having to find £800 towards the repair if he insists on using Honda.


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## Glaschu

Shiny said:


> To be fair though, "approved repairers" have to meet certain quality standards and offer guarantees on work, so they are unlikely to be back street garages. The insurers agreed rates with them are quite strict, with a pre agreed labour rate and and often little or no mark up on parts. However, they offer a constant stream of work so many garages are happy to accept the terms.
> 
> Scotch is well within his rights to have the car repaired where he wishes, but in the same respect he has a duty to mitigate his loss. An exaggeration here, but if the approved repairers want £40 an hour labour and the general going rate for the area is £40/50 an hour, but Honda are charging £120 an hour labour to do the same job with the same parts, on a 10 hour job that will mean that the job costs £800 more than it needs to. The Insurers shouldn't have to pay £800 more than it would normally cost to repair the vehicle elsewhere. They could agree that the car is repaired there, but could insist that they will only paying the going rate, so Scotch could end up having to find £800 towards the repair if he insists on using Honda.


If their current service/repair offer extends to bodywork then the Honda dealer should match any other bodyshop's quote...


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## Scotch

I have got a quote from the Honda garage, all in it will cost £320.60 for the whole job lot, parts, time and VAT. The guys at Honda said it was half a day job. I don't need a courtesy car.

Will do some more digging for prices.

Thanks for the advice so far guys. Appreciate it.:thumb:


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## Shiny

To be honest at £320 I would just ask them if they are happy for you to repair it there. As it is less than £500, they may just give you the go ahead.


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## Scotch

Just to let you know. The shunt has now been sorted and the 3rd parties insurance has admitted it. No claims is still in tact and the car is now sorted.

Thanks to Shiny and everyone who contributed to this.

Thanks again.:thumb:

Scotch


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## ianrobbo1

Did your Honda dealer do the job or did you take it to their preferred garage??


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## Scotch

I checked out the garage they were taking the car to, it is a Honda certified repair centre. They did a good job, only a bumper swap but it was done in a day. Only just had time to get back home have lunch and got a call to say it was done.

Can't complain.


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## Shiny

Glad it was all sorted, nice result.


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