# Base coat left for a week, can I lacquer it?



## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

I had a monumental task for repairing some damage on a rear wing with aerosols. The pro quote was 15% of the value of the car, so not an option. From 9am through to 11pm on Saturday and repeated on Sunday I managed to grind, fill, shape, prime and base coat before running out of time.

from this



...to this, excuse the darkness, I just ran outside to take it now)



With 5 days of work now filling my time before I can finish with the lacquer, is this going to be a problem? My understanding is that lacquer should be applied soon after so that there is a chemical bond between the two layers. Has his hard work gone to waste? The base coat is fairly rough and mat so should key well. I'm using Paint4u cans which I find very good.

Any help would be hugely appreciated.


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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

Personally I'd flat the basecoat back a bit and do another coat, leave that to dry for an hour or so then lacquer.

If you've not got any basecoat left then you may aswell just try lacquering it. If it works it works, if it doesn't then you'll have to rub back and re basecoat and lacquer anyway.


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

I have a small amount left. So reapplying the base coat won't have the same adhesion problems that the lacquer would have after a week?


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## Franzpan (Mar 2, 2009)

I think becuase your scuffing it up prior to re applying base you will be creating a rougher surface for a good bond.


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

Does that mean that the base layer does not rely on on chemical adhesion like the lacquer does?

As it is, the surface is rougher than if I was to sand it back, so simply adding another quick base coat to it before the lacquer would suffice?


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Yes you will need to flat the basecoat and apply more as there will be no adhesion for the clear to stick to. As the amount of time it's been left the base will be fully cured which if clear was applied it would result in it flaking off.


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

Thanks, do you mean flat the basecoat off, so it goes back to the primer or keep the basecoat but just make it flatter/smoother?

Would 1500 be suitable for flatting it?


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

Don't take it all off, just give it a key up with your 1500.


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

Thanks.
I think Im getting there and doesn't sound as bad as I feared. One last question regarding the 'keying'. 

The texture of the basecoat is pretty rough as it is. If I use 1500 on it then it actually feels smoother. When I reapply the basecoat should I be aiming for a smoother finish or is it normal for it to be this rough before applying the lacquer?


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

MB-BTurbo said:


> Thanks.
> I think Im getting there and doesn't sound as bad as I feared. One last question regarding the 'keying'.
> 
> The texture of the basecoat is pretty rough as it is. If I use 1500 on it then it actually feels smoother. When I reapply the basecoat should I be aiming for a smoother finish or is it normal for it to be this rough before applying the lacquer?


Once you've flatted and are ready to apply more colour. You should apply nice even coats one a time and lead for about ten mins between coats do this until covered, then last coat should be a fine misty coat just blending it out where you've applied your colour coats known as drop coat. It should be fairly smooth as if it feels rough to the touch then this will affect the way the laquer sits on it as it will sink into it causing the gloss level to drop a bit so the smoother you get the basecoat the better the laquer will sit it may be worth using a tack cloth aswell between coats of colour to minimise dust from base colour just use a tack cloth very lightly tho.


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

It is the final mist coat that gives it the rough appearance/feel. I think it will be fine though, from yours and others advice here I feel much more reassured on how to proceed. Thank you.


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

How did it go?


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

Ok, i think, it's quite dull still as I haven't polished it. It sanded back well enough, added 2-3 more coats needed to cover up the sanding marks, then left 1 hour and added a light mist layer of lacquer and then3 more thicker ones.

The can says 24 hours to fully dry, can i Polish tomorrow or should I leave it a week?

Will try and get a picture up tomorrow.


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

Depends on the lacquer. 

I'd give it at least a few days. 

Any more pics?


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

It's this one.

https://www.paints4u.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=11050

Pics will follow tomorrow but its a matt finish authentic moment.

Really tempted to use their 2k aerosol but have read they can be very bad for health without air fed masks.


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## REVERSiN (Sep 28, 2015)

Best leave it dry it need more time about two weeks minimum you can polish it however you rist damaging a soft inner clear too much laquer make it fade a bit if done improperly but as you said its just a question of whether you can or not polish it so in short yes you can and i recommend you not to


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## SamD (Oct 24, 2015)

MB-BTurbo said:


> It's this one.
> 
> https://www.paints4u.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=11050
> 
> ...


You can buy a decent filtered mask for around £20 that will keep you alive.


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

I've got to part exchange it next week so need to polish it sometime this week. Longest I can leave it is a week.


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

SamD said:


> You can buy a decent filtered mask for around £20 that will keep you alive.


Any links to the appropriate one?


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## SamD (Oct 24, 2015)

http://refinishsystems.com/3m-paint...&language=en?gclid=CIeo3L_K5coCFSMHwwodSVkJuA

Shop around you will find it cheaper.


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## Rundie (Oct 2, 2007)

Watch where you buy it from, loads of fakes around that'll give you no protection.


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## SamD (Oct 24, 2015)

Rundie said:


> Watch where you buy it from, loads of fakes around that'll give you no protection.


I should of mentioned if JimTopSeller on EBay is selling 10 for £15 just buy from a certified trader.


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

Sicskate said:


> Depends on the lacquer.
> 
> I'd give it at least a few days.
> 
> Any more pics?


It looks dull and patchy but I've had it looking worse than this with a more poorly applied basecoat (pre detailing world days) before and it's polished up well. Fingers crossed.


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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

I've polished up aerosol to a nice gloss after a couple of days. However it won't have fully cured so the finish will dull back quite quickly.

I always used to do an initial polish sooner than ideal to save driving around with a patchy car, accepting I'd have to do it again properly in a week or two.


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

Compared to what it was like it's considerably better even before polishing. I'm intending to part polish, i.e. get a semi shine, warm up with a hairdryer to speed up curing and then polish again a couple of days later...well that's the idea anyway considering I need it presentable within a week.


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

When polishing it would AG SRP be suitable or does it have to many waxes and fillers in for a first polish?


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

I tried rubbing it down a bit today and it started going cloudy:doublesho

I've read that it can go cloudy when too cold, especially at this time of year but thought that it usually shows from the start rather than after the rubbing process. I used a garage with heater and heated the can up in very hot water. I used the supplied G3 compound paste supplied, which I've not used before but I'm at a bit of a loss.

I switched to AG SRP and started getting a bit of shine but still milky clouds. What's happening? I know that ideally it would be left for two weeks but thought that was only to reduce swirls on the relatively soft paint. Unfortunately, I don't have 2 weeks. I've never left it long I the past and never had problems. What's happening?


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## toastyhamster (Jun 29, 2012)

Don't care to think how long ago it was I was spraying cars but that looks like it just got too cold/damp during the drying phase, only ever had blooming in cold conditions, never in a booth. Unusual for it to appear during flatting back, maybe the wet sand process triggered it. You could try warming it to see if it improves but I never had any luck.


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

Time to get the hair dryer out.


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

If I warm it up now, will/should that help...bearing in mind it's 7.30, dark and the neighbours will think I've lost the plot sitting outside blowdrying my car, lol.


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

toastyhamster said:


> Don't care to think how long ago it was I was spraying cars but that looks like it just got too cold/damp during the drying phase, only ever had blooming in cold conditions, never in a booth. Unusual for it to appear during flatting back, maybe the wet sand process triggered it. You could try warming it to see if it improves but I never had any luck.


I wiped it down with a wet towel but didn't wet sand it as such. Just got polishing. 
The car was in my inlaws garage for 5 hours with the heater before I drove home in the cold, would this be when it would have caused th problem? It's just odd how it's only now gone cloudy, 5 days on.


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

id say alot of that cloudyness is dry spray from the basecoat 

its never going to look close to perfect so youre stuck with it , no warming up with a hair dryer will fix that , it needs sanding over gently and redoing by someone with more experience


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

Like me, lol. Getting it wrong is the best way to gain experience and learn how to do right the next time. Everyone starts somewhere.

Although, what is dry spray from the basecoat and why would it only show now when polishing up the lacquer? I thought that dry spray would be caused by spraying the can too far from the panel, i.e. it dries in the air before landing on the panel? From the distance I sprayed and the air temperature when spraying, I would be surprised if this is the case (if, of course, my understanding of dry spray is correct).


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

i think its dry edges ...the basecoat needs to go on reasonbly wet so it lays down flat , im guessing around the edge of your repair the spray settled down like dust?

prob just a bit too much to take on with little experience and a rattle can ...live and learn and all that 

plus a large area like that will never shine up like the factory clear coat , more obvious on a black car


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

That makes sense and yes, the edges would have the spray settling like dust. I sprayed an Impreza door a few years ago with fantastic results but my approach was different. I aimed to do the whole door where as here I tried to reduce the amount I sprayed and blend it in, leading to the dust spray settling on the outside. If time wasn't an issue I would start over by looks like I'm going to need to take the hit here with a large dealer knockdown offer on my p/x. 

The confusing bit is, everywhere I read states that in order to blend in you need to mist or dust towards the edges to prevent a smart repair line appearing. How can you blend using a thicker, wet coat right to the edge of where the repair meets the original paint?


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

take it to the dealer wet and park tight against something , few muddy puddles etc


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

Lol, yes, already looked at when its meant to rain next week!


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

might be lucky , they were slack where i used to work if the rest is super tidy then fingers crossed


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

With the rain we have had it should the too hard to find a good day.

With the blending, how do you do it if you need to maintain a thicker wet coat?


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

how do you avoid the dry edge?

by not going over and over it any more than need be , and carefully wipe off dusty overspray with a tack cloth before the clear goes on

im not sure if you prepped the area where the clear coat was planned to blend in either , that needs prepping well and then use blending thinners to fade away the edge where the clear stops ...or in some cases clear the whole panel to save hassle with edges


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

I roughed up the area where I was going to blend the lacquer but haven't used thinners. I think in hindsight taking the area upto that crease in the panel would have been better to mask the join.

I read that the clearcoat should be put on soon after the basecoat to ensure a chemical bond (hence the reason for this thread), however if you over spray it onto the existing clear coat and rough up that area to key it in there is no chemical bond. Nowhere seems to be able to explain why the chemical bond is only necessary over the newly painted basecoat but not at the edge where you blend it into the existing clearcoat. Is this where the thinners come into it?


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

you need to key everywhere the base and clear will go , then where the fade will end either compound it or use prepping paste

so yeah all paints will go onto a keyed panel


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## MB-BTurbo (Nov 27, 2011)

Bit of an update. I believe I have come across the reason for it going cloudy.

I thought I would polish a bit more with AG SRP and a DA, it actually came up quite well, the cloudiness had been reduced, then I wiped down with were spirit and within seconds it clouded straight back over again.

I polished again which has reduced the cloudiness again but will need to respray it. I think I will wait until it's a bit warmer and start over as it's not too bad and will be missed by the casual eye.


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