# Dimension Abrasive vs Non Dimension Abrasive



## mohebmhanna (Jul 19, 2011)

What is the difference between dimension abrasive and non-dimension abrasive polish. When you use dimension abrasive polish, for example,Farecla G3 what is best technique using a rotary form speed and movement tool. Is the product needs more time to break down and you have to be in slow movement. Please advice


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

do you mean diminishing abrasives?
my limited understanding was the diminishing abrasives start at their most abrasive and then as you work them become less and less abrasive, so they can deal with big scratches and yet not leave marring. 

Where as non diminishing stay the same throughout the process (such as T-cut)


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Yes, basically diminishing start out large, and get smaller and smaller thus polishing out the marks it left before. Non diminishing are usually very fine HARD abrasives that don't fracture, and in greater numbers. Some polishes like P1 and fixer are almost not liquids at all, but bottles of fine powder. As they don't fracture they rely on pressure to increase cut, then less pressure to dig less thus adding a fine finish. Both have there place and are improving daily


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## mohebmhanna (Jul 19, 2011)

yes I mean diminishing abrasives, thanks for the info.


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## Porkypig (Jun 20, 2012)

I use both in the forms of G3 and certain Menzerna polishes, as rightly stated they all have their place just go careful with that G3!!!!


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## mohebmhanna (Jul 19, 2011)

could you please explain more about G3. I'm planning to use G3 paint renovator with their red finishing pad with a rotary.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

He means G3 the very old compounding paste. They use it in body shops. There is much better out there for a mature detailers IMO.


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## mohebmhanna (Jul 19, 2011)

I'm not planning to use the compounding paste. Any advice to how to use the step 3 G3 paint renovator.


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## waxy (Feb 27, 2006)

Diminishing abrasive polishes use a 'cluster' or group of abrasives that are stuck together,as you work them,the friction from polishing causes them to separate,once they are all separated from the cluster,the polish is broken down,leaving what is termed as 'primary crystal abrasives'.A non diminishing abrasive polish uses the 'primary crystal abrasives' instead of the 'clustered' abrasives,so the polish does not need to be worked through a cycle to separate,or break them apart.


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

Would fast cut plus be described as diminishing abrasive?


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## waxy (Feb 27, 2006)

Yes,diminishing.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

I prefer non-diminishing SMAT stuff, I find it easier to work with as when you achieve your desired results you just stop no switching to a finishing polish to refine the marks out.


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## Deniance (Jun 28, 2008)

Smats are great polish for 30 seconds then wipe away and see what its done!

sent from my Nokia 3210 using ticky tacky


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

Examples of some smat polishes?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

P1, meguiars ultimate compound, Scholl.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Ben Gum said:


> Which is all well and good when you know what you are doing but it is a disaster for a novice or someone who regularly polishes their vehicle. Yes, this way will give you fab results but it removes much much more paint.
> 
> In my view, people on this forum are often doing long term harm through lack of thought on this matter.


Are you taking the p!ss Ben? Someone who doesn't know what they are doing doesn't know what they are doing, end of! Using a diminishing product and being told you have to "thoroughly break it down" is just as dangerous in the wrong hands mate, they run the risk of "over" working a polish and causing damage, and most do the opposite and leave a horrific finish full of holograms. The same can not be said with smat. 205 is smat and is not anymore dangerous than other polish 

I do agree though that advice offered on here is dangerous, as it comes with No guarantee's. Someone was giving advice a while back about machining, saying that the da was "dead". He told the op to use a rotary, AT SPEED on it's edge with pressure! He justified it saying he had completed a "master detailers course" so must be right, right? Problem is telling a novice to do this is retarded, trying to teach SOMEONE ELSES technique that was shown to you and monitored to a novice is suicide, and if that novice damaged his paint do you think the "master detailer"trained member would take responsibility? I'm with you mate, there is no accountability which is dangerous, but not smat products, they are as safe as diminishing


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

That's all very interesting mate, but have you "used" them? Or monitored someone else who is? There is a whole buncch more to polishing than fancy words Ben, pad composition, speed, paint type, lubrication the list is endless. A diminishing abrasive in a novices hands is no more or less likely to cause damage than a smat product, I'm not talking text books, I'm talking practically not theoretically. You think because 205 or P1 is smat, its more dangerous than fast cut plus? Seriously??


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

Fast cut plus is a scary product in anyone hands lol!


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

From what I've learnt, a bad car that is in need of correction has on average 50-60 microns to play with before the clear coat is removed

10 microns max if possible are removed during the polishing stages, to achieve a 'perfect' finish.

So not many times it can be done during its life really!


Unless im totally wrong lol


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Yes I "get" the theory, but the reality is completely different is what I am saying! Saying you could polish through the clear colour and primer to bare metal is just silly. If I could genuinely do that with a non diminishing product then I could o it with a diminishing one also cause I am a retard, plain and simple! It would be largely due to the mechanical cut of the pad causing such problems if that was actually achievable. Just because the abrasive doesn't fracture the polish doesn't run forever Ben, and given the size of such abrasives the amount of paint being removed is a lot less than the initial cut provided by for example by S3 gold or fast cut plus!

Simply saying smat are dangerous is a gross generalisation much like saying all diminishing polishes are the same, they are not, they have different sized abrasives, different strength abrasives and different speeds of fracture etc etc. In the real world these are all factors that contribute to paint removal. 

I don't mean to cause an argument but polishing is a real passion of mine now and I have spent hundreds and hundreds of pounds and hours using and testing different products, polishes, pads etc, and neither polish is generically more dangerous or destructive than the other


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## mohebmhanna (Jul 19, 2011)

any advice on how to use the step 3 in the new G3 system (paint renovator) - diminishing abrasive.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

mohebmhanna said:


> any advice on how to use the step 3 in the new G3 system (paint renovator) - diminishing abrasive.


I'm sorry mate I haven't used those products so can't comment, I'm not a huge fan of their current line up in all honesty. 
But for polishing in general start with the weakest combo and work up, it's all about removing as little paint as possible whilst getting the desired results. If they dust, use less speed, and try not to dry the polish out, make sure there is lubrication through out

Perhaps you could update us with your thoughts on the products afterwards, I am interested in your results :buffer:


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

At the moment I use Carpro Fixer to my cyclocopy. When it ends I will either buy Scholl s17+ or megs 101 or Fixer again. What kind of experience you have those to comparing Fixer?


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## mohebmhanna (Jul 19, 2011)

I bought the G3 paint renovator from a a local detailing/car parts shop here in CA. The reason I'll give a try on my black BMW 2008 is to clear the surface from minor swirls on the hood and some areas on the doors. My process as the following:
1- Wash and dry
2- Clay the car using the G3 clay bar/QD
3- apply the G3 paint renovator to small area (2x2) using their red finishing pad. From what I found about this product it should clear the surface and leave it almost defects free and glossy. I'll use Makita polisher speed 1200-1500/prime pad first.

Sure I'll update you mate with result.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

sm81 said:


> At the moment I use Carpro Fixer to my cyclocopy. When it ends I will either buy Scholl s17+ or megs 101 or Fixer again. What kind of experience you have those to comparing Fixer?


Fixer is a great polish, but not everyone getson with it, much like P1. S17 and fixer share the fact they are both quick working polishes, I personally think fixer finishes a little crisper but I know the next guy will favour s17, it's much of a muchness. 101 is a tough one. I prefer 101 on a da to 105, but still favour 105 on the rotary. You would struggle to get a better finish than starting with 101 on a mf pad or surbuf, then finishing with fixer on a finishing pad. Honestly those two steps will produce show stopping results


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

stangalang said:


> Fixer is a great polish, but not everyone getson with it, much like P1. S17 and fixer share the fact they are both quick working polishes, I personally think fixer finishes a little crisper but I know the next guy will favour s17, it's much of a muchness. 101 is a tough one. I prefer 101 on a da to 105, but still favour 105 on the rotary. You would struggle to get a better finish than starting with 101 on a mf pad or surbuf, then finishing with fixer on a finishing pad. Honestly those two steps will produce show stopping results


But chancing fixer to scholl doesn't quicker your work time?
Maybe I keep using fixer.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

sm81 said:


> But chancing fixer to scholl doesn't quicker your work time?
> Maybe I keep using fixer.


Personally no, others may disagree. Both DO work quickly, but I found that the filling issue that s17 has is usually due to a too shorter work time, just something to bare in mind if using it. It really comes down to how you work, if you have a heavy hand and like speed then go for scholl, if you have a tender touch and polish tentatively then fixer will get the best from your technique. I also think fixer is better on a da than scholl, but again that is personal preference


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Still I must decided whether buy LC orange/tangering pads or CG hex orange/green.


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

sm81 said:


> Still I must decided whether buy LC orange/tangering pads or CG hex orange/green.


What machine you using?


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Cyclocopy DA


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

Orange hex pad for heavy cut then, I'd of said yellow pad for rotary.

Closed cell pads will work better on a da as they generate more heat, whereas open cell pads work best on the rotary as the heat needs to escape more


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Junior Bear said:


> Orange hex pad for heavy cut then, I'd of said yellow pad for rotary.
> 
> Closed cell pads will work better on a da as they generate more heat, whereas open cell pads work best on the rotary as the heat needs to escape more


There are many opinions regarding whether hex pads are open or closed Cell.


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

Just going off what Gordon from carpro taught me


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## mohebmhanna (Jul 19, 2011)

here is the results of using G3 Paint Renovator and G3 liquid wax.
1- Easy to use and was able to remove the swirls 95%
2- Add fantastic gloss
Note: 1- prime the pad with water and product, speed 900 and next 1500rpm.
2- add water during polishing to get the maximum gloss.

Please see the attachments (pictures)

Thanks to all.


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## david_pupu (Sep 19, 2011)

how bout 3M ultrafina 6068 is it diminishing or not


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## waxy (Feb 27, 2006)

Diminishing


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## david_pupu (Sep 19, 2011)

is it true 

diminishing polish = no dusting / minimum dusting 
non diminishing polish = always dusting


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

No it's not, if anything in my experience it's the other way round.


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