# Roof leaking woes



## hudson0804 (Jun 6, 2007)

Hi DW'ers

I'm after opinions, I'm not a roofer by trade and i dont expect most of you folks are either but i hope that some of you have experieinces with roofers/roofing and the costs evolved around them.

SO, my house, is old, i'd say somewhere in the 1950's old. I've discovered that a leak i believed to have been resolved last year has returned (-sadface-). 

I've had my roofer guy come back, (just to note i have no reason not to trust this guys opinion, my mate used them and hes quite particular about having work done and having it done to his acceptable standards) so yeah my roofer guy came back and said the following.

I remember looking at this last time and know that we only redid the felt under that section, its more than likely that the roof and ridge tiles need addressing and he has suggested re-felting, rebatoning and then repointing the ridge tiles, replacing when needed. 

Now it was the OH who let him in and got talked at about roofing so i cant be 100% on all the wording but he is going to quote me.

This sounds like a worrying amount of money to part with, is this a case of let the professionals do what they do best or should i be querying something more?

TIA

H


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

I might be tempted to get two more quotes plus opinions, patching is usually only a short term solution, if on continued examination more work may be need it could be that the ridge is leaking plus it would be beneficial to replace the battens where need to support any new work.

If you compare like with like than a decision as to the price from each may give a clearer picture, where a recommendation from a previous customer should be beneficial.

Good luck hope you get it sorted, John Tht.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

If you were to post even a basic but clear picture and explain what has actually been done so far where the leaks are it would give a starting point. 

Firstly remember the felt on older roofs is there to back up the primary covering which is the tiles. 
Repairing felt without establishing Exactly where the water is penetrating the primary covering is an absolute hiding to nothing. 

It seems your roofer is suggesting stripping and setting aside the existing tiles for re use. Then felting (Which MUST be done with a permeable underlay) and battening and re laying the tiles set aside and supplying make up tiles to match existing. 

But do you really need that doing ? 

Water penetration through the ridge tile hardly ever shows as a leak. The tiles are of course at the apex so do the least amount of work on the roof. So its very very rare indeed for leaks to appear from there especially on a regular basis . 

A picture or two would help. It would show the type of tiles laid. The shape of the roof , The Pitch of the roof. Chimneys and abutments an valleys as well at which points leaks generally appear. 

From there I can advise accordingly.


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## hudson0804 (Jun 6, 2007)

Hi Both,

As suspected and pointed out by both of you the roofer is definitely looking at removing all tiles, rebattening, felt and relaying tiles. 

Including VAT some 7000(GBP). 

I will get up in the loft and take some pictures, exterior pictures will not be amazing as i only have my phones camera. 

Thanks

H


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

Just dig deep & have the whole roof re-done. If I've read it right this is the second time it has happened so just take the hit, get the whole roof done, then you'll have no more problems


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

davies20 said:


> Just dig deep & have the whole roof re-done. If I've read it right this is the second time it has happened so just take the hit, get the whole roof done, then you'll have no more problems


Not necessarily, i know of someone at work who has had it done and they have had no end of problems with their new roof !, it leaks and the front and rear :doublesho


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Listen to ChuckH. Get some pics up and he'll see you right.

For what it's worth I bought a house from C.1970 which I knew wasn't watertight. We had a 'wet verge' which was removed, rotten batons & felt replaced and a dry verge installed for around £700 (from memory). They only had to remove a few rows of tiles from each edge because the batons were solid in the middle of the roof.


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## m4rkymark (Aug 17, 2014)

7K - how many tiles is he removing? Tbh sounds like overkill but it depends how much water has been getting in and for what period of time. As someone else up thread said its the tiles which stop the water not the felt or the batons.

my house was built in 1850 and we had half the roof redone - this is a big roof and we were only 5k and that included 3 new valleys, flat roof redone hitch needed 4rows of tiles removed from the roof, 2 chimneys had new lead surrounds put in because the originals were leaking and about 500 slates replaced. we don't have batons or felt though - tiles are nailed straight to sparking boards.

As someone else also said get another few people in to look at it - don't blindly trust the first guy you used. He may be thinking he's into a winner because he done some work for you previously and you had no issues.


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

christ 7k we had our roof done and it wasnt far off that for the whole thing


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

Shaun said:


> Not necessarily, i know of someone at work who has had it done and they have had no end of problems with their new roof !, it leaks and the front and rear :doublesho


Blimey!!

Was it a case of buy cheap buy twice?


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## m4rkymark (Aug 17, 2014)

I forgot we had a roof done on a building at the side of our garage, it was 16mtr sq. for supply and fit of the tiles and ridge tiles, all Rosemary, felt, batons, guttering and a bit of harling the roofer took £2100.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

davies20 said:


> Blimey!!
> 
> Was it a case of buy cheap buy twice?


I don't think it was cheap, whenever they get heavy rain water leaks down the outside walls (possibly the cavity too) of the house, the company who did it have had a look but it still leaks now they ignore her calls!


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## hudson0804 (Jun 6, 2007)

HI GUys appriciate the comments, i will be getting more quotes but i'll first get some pictures up , this iwll be the weekend as its dark when i love and return form work.

I can give you details of the quote but a few people who have experience of roofers are all saying this is a quote from someone who doesn't want the work by pricing it so high.

Its not a great deal f water either, we're talking a damp patch (no drips) on the plaster board.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

hudson0804 said:


> HI GUys appriciate the comments, i will be getting more quotes but i'll first get some pictures up , this iwll be the weekend as its dark when i love and return form work.
> 
> I can give you details of the quote but a few people who have experience of roofers are all saying this is a quote from someone who doesn't want the work by pricing it so high.
> 
> Its not a great deal f water either, we're talking a damp patch (no drips) on the plaster board.


Damp patch on the plaster board can mean quite a significant leak into the roof. The timber and insulation can absorb a lot of water before it shows inside on a ceiling. Turning a blind eye could cost you a hell of a lot of money !


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Shaun said:


> Not necessarily, i know of someone at work who has had it done and they have had no end of problems with their new roof !, it leaks and the front and rear :doublesho


Absolutely ! It is so desperately important to select the right tradesman or it can be catastrophic !

The figure of £7000 means absolutely nothing. We have no idea of .....

The size and shape of the roof.
What tiles are on it.
How many chimneys valleys and/or abutments . This can mean little or much lead work.
The condition of the tiles to be re-used . They may be fine or fit only for the skip. 
How high or awkward it is to erect the scaffold.

7K could be a bargain or a complete rip off and without at least an idea of the basics I remain clueless.


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## hudson0804 (Jun 6, 2007)

Sorry for the time it has taken. Here are the images as mentioned.

I will point out that whilst in the loft even though its cats and dogs today i felt no water and also the "damp" spot on the wall was not damp like i would expect more so drying out if that makes sense.

Sorry for the poor quality.

http://i.imgur.com/bJsKsjA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Jg5K8dL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MW0U9kG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0HKkSfG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WGsKYb2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/U8IZFNJ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/69beYTB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7x92cNk.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/C2QPDMn.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4UeNiB8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Cpka9VE.jpg

EDIT - i have removed the img tags as they broke the forum formatting


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Just to give ChuckH a laugh I'm going to attempt to diagnose your issue.

Your wet verge is ****ed and it's letting rain in (probably a lot more when the wind drives it in under the tiles). You need to get the tiles lifted along the verge until you get to solid batons. Replace rotted batons, new felt and then re-lay the tiles with a dry verge.

Job done. Budget £750-£1500.

ChuckH will be along shortly with a more informed diagnosis.

Dry verge: 









Wet verge:


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## hudson0804 (Jun 6, 2007)

to put it more into perspective, the water damage is between the two houses, so as you looking above the split difference of the two satellite dishes.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Tiles are an older style half pan tile known as Norfolks.. They in this case are concrete not clay. The house build is circa 1930/40 I would think.. The roof pitch is between 40 and 45 degrees. Tiles will be laid in 1 1/2 X 1 inch battens over the older style rag based bitumin felt likely BS 757 type IF. 

It's a very straightforward roof with just the central shared chimney. It's very unusual for such a straight roof to leak unless there are broken tiles. 

The roof would benefit from being re laid but to be honest it very likely doesent need it. Fixing a dry verge system isn't so easy because half pans have little stability and the verge tiles will rock as the outside edges are not locked into anything. 

If the leak is detected and sorted (can't correlate between the water marks on the inside and where it relates to outside.) then all I would do is lift the verge and ridge tiles. Clean them all off and re bed in a 3 to I mix.. Paint all verge and ridge tiles with PVA as they are re bedded on and screw the tiles not nail them. 

Obviously if I knew where the leak was or was on site I would be able to advise more accurately.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

hudson0804 said:


> to put it more into perspective, the water damage is between the two houses, so as you looking above the split difference of the two satellite dishes.


Is the dampness directly under the chimney or above the window?

Either way I reckon it's something to do with the dodgy looking flashing around the chimney either dripping straight down or dripping under the tiles then running down.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Nanoman said:


> Is the dampness directly under the chimney or above the window?
> 
> Either way I reckon it's something to do with the dodgy looking flashing around the chimney either dripping straight down or dripping under the tiles then running down.


Mate as the chimney is on the party wall its a fair bet the leak is from the chimney. Im having difficulty viewing the pictures and cant easily flick through them.

It is very possible and likely that leak has been coming through the primary cover which is the tiles and running down the felt. It can take years and years before the felt deteriorates and allows the water to get into the roof space and on down to the ceilings.

What I can see of the flashings which is little they look weathered but not too bad.

I would bet the leak on that roof is worse when the rain is in or coming from a certain direction ? IE if the rain is hammering the front elevation and the leak is at the front it may penetrate more ? If the rain is falling straight down and not wind driven I bet it leaks less ? Again this will help with what after all is just a diagnosis from ............Well not brilliant pictures...


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## hudson0804 (Jun 6, 2007)

In response. Theres nothing directly under the chiney at all. 

I cant get better pictures sadly as its a camera phone.

The leak seems to be very intermittent, this weekend, lashed it down not signs of damp - the spot dried out in the week and left a tide mark on the wall. 

I can see any sign of water running down any of the rafters. One thought i had was could it be running down the roof and then work its way into the soffit, slowly building and then soaking in or would you say this is more likely coming in on the "inside" of the wall and working in from there? 

I'm going to have get another roofer in and hope they don't try and mug me off too much, unless by some coincidence chuck lives close by then you're more than welcome to take a look. 

H


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