# Ceramic Friendly Snow foam mega test



## Carscope

Good morning all,

Following a recent discussion on another thread (https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=423113) there were some interesting points raised around stronger alkaline snow foams such as Bilt hamber auto foam & wax planet 8 below possibly having a negative effect on a ceramic coating.

This has prompted to me to try and search out a snow foam that won't degrade the coating but also offer good pre wash cleaning. So i thought why not collate my findings into one thread.

I have done some some testing like this before of 'pure' shampoos which can be seen here;

https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=419020

For context ill take you through my normal washing routine as well what I want out of a snow foam.

My car washing procedure usually looks something like this;

1. Wheels
2. Pre wash
3. Snow foam
4. Rinse
5. Shampoo (applied to car through a lance)
6. Hand wash 
7. Blow dry.

I don't want a snow foam that is excessively clingy or overly foamy as I don't want to be waiting to crack on with the wash for 20 minutes, ideally I would like a maximum of around 10 minutes dwell time. (After using magifoam for the last year waiting around 20 minutes and having foam on the driveway all weekend is annoying).

*A few controls for this testing.*

1. Ill be using an MTM Foam cannon for all the snow foams









2. Ill use the same car each time, My little UP! GTI.

















3. Car is coated in Gtechniq EXO/CSL and was applied around 1 month ago so is still fresh.

4. Ill be using a kranzle K10 as my pressure washer, which delivers around 10 Litres a minute and I usually get decent foaming

5. The water here is around 160ppm which is pretty hard, just something to keep in mind although I've never had it affect foaming.

*Testing*

1. Ill measure the PH levels of each product neat, Diluted and P.I.R.
2. Ill use the recommended Dilutions from each manufacturer. 
3. Dwell time will also be to manufacture recommendations. 
4. Before/After photos 
5. Comments on each product
6. Costs associated with each product.

*Contenders (so far)*

Carbon Collective Ultimus Snow Foam
Gtechniq W4 Citrus Foam - Post #50
GYEON Q2M Foam - Post #54
Koch Chemie GSF Gentle Snow Foam 
TAC System Ultra Snow Foam 
Wax Planet Seven Below PH Neutral Snow Foam - Post #31

(If there are any you would like to see let me know).

Its worth noting that ill end up with a lot of product not being used so after each test ill stick them for sale in the personal detailing sales section, may be helpful if you want to try yourself.

First up will be wax planet 7 below which ill upload this weekend.


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## sharrkey

Fantastic  will be great to see your outcomes of each

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## AndyQash

Looking forward to the findings, love a proper test rather than being fed the usual YouTube fodder.


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## roscopervis

Great idea. One question - in your usual routine you mention a pre-wash. What does that entail?


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## Kenan

I can send you samples of the following for testing of required -

DetailedOnline Lava Foam
Autoglym Polar Blast
CarChem Pre-Soak

All 3 are popular and available in larger sizes. 

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk


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## Guest

Uhh... I'm not sure how this test will prove anything if you are washing the whole car with each product just once?


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## atbalfour

roscopervis said:


> Great idea. One question - in your usual routine you mention a pre-wash. What does that entail?


Yep.. if it's a pre wash cleaner then those are normally as harsh if not harsher than the snow foams lol. Unless he means pre-rinse?



DannyRS3 said:


> Uhh... I'm not sure how this test will prove anything if you are washing the whole car with each product just once?


I fear you may be right in relation to LSP degradation.. each product will be eating away at it over time and the product to take the last bite may be blamed when actually it's just a matter of sequencing.

The only way to do this with any meaningful way of comparison is to pick two - run them head to head for a period of time and monitor relative performance, degradation. In theory one side of the car shouldn't get a whole lot dirtier than the other.

With more than two products it becomes a nightmare to test - segmenting up and keeping track of sections, different sections will be expose to different contamination (general dirt, road film, dried water spotting, heat, bug splatter, iron, tar etc).

I think regardless of the way Eturty does it, this thread will help differentiate between the foaminess, dwell time and cleaning power of this category of mild foams. The LSP degradation might just be one step too far.


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## Carscope

Chaps, 

Thanks for the replies. 

To clear it up straight off the bat there’s no feasible way to comment on degradation of the coating, otherwise we would all be 10 years older by the time I get there. 

Also it’s kind of pointless as all of our cars exist in different parts of the country, see a huge range of mileage and use different coatings so I don’t think I will be able to add much in terms of value if I commented on durability. 

What I can do however is present some facts, first hand experience and hard data for all of you to make an informed decision on whether one of these products will work for you or not. Especially on the PH values of each product (additionally I understand PH isn’t everything but it’s a useful figure to know). 

Also forgive me when I say pre-wash I mean using a ‘snow foam’ type product not a TFR or any other type of citrus based cleaner. More of a blanket term to cover using a ‘contactless’ type product before shampooing the car. 


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## Carscope

Kenan said:


> I can send you samples of the following for testing of required -
> 
> DetailedOnline Lava Foam
> Autoglym Polar Blast
> CarChem Pre-Soak
> 
> All 3 are popular and available in larger sizes.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk


Thank you for the offer Kenan, I'll pm you 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## atbalfour

Eturty said:


> Also forgive me when I say pre-wash I mean using a 'snow foam' type product not a TFR or any other type of citrus based cleaner. More of a blanket term to cover using a 'contactless' type product before shampooing the car.


Are you using a separate product prior to the snow foam being tested, or are you using the tested snow foam as the pre-wash too?


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## Carscope

atbalfour said:


> Are you using a separate product prior to the snow foam being tested, or are you using the tested snow foam as the pre-wash too?


Just snow foam dude

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## [email protected]

Eturty said:


> Good morning all,
> 
> Following a recent discussion on another thread (https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=423113) there were some interesting points raised around stronger alkaline snow foams such as Bilt hamber auto foam & wax planet 8 below possibly having a negative effect on a ceramic coating.
> 
> This has prompted to me to try and search out a snow foam that won't degrade the coating but also offer good pre wash cleaning. So i thought why not collate my findings into one thread.
> 
> I have done some some testing like this before of 'pure' shampoos which can be seen here;
> 
> https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=419020
> 
> For context ill take you through my normal washing routine as well what I want out of a snow foam.
> 
> My car washing procedure usually looks something like this;
> 
> 1. Wheels
> 2. Pre wash
> 3. Snow foam
> 4. Rinse
> 5. Shampoo (applied to car through a lance)
> 6. Hand wash
> 7. Blow dry.
> 
> I don't want a snow foam that is excessively clingy or overly foamy as I don't want to be waiting to crack on with the wash for 20 minutes, ideally I would like a maximum of around 10 minutes dwell time. (After using magifoam for the last year waiting around 20 minutes and having foam on the driveway all weekend is annoying).
> 
> *A few controls for this testing.*
> 
> 1. Ill be using an MTM Foam cannon for all the snow foams
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Ill use the same car each time, My little UP! GTI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Car is coated in Gtechniq EXO/CSL and was applied around 1 month ago so is still fresh.
> 
> 4. Ill be using a kranzle K10 as my pressure washer, which delivers around 10 Litres a minute and I usually get decent foaming
> 
> 5. The water here is around 160ppm which is pretty hard, just something to keep in mind although I've never had it affect foaming.
> 
> *Testing*
> 
> 1. Ill measure the PH levels of each product neat, Diluted and P.I.R.
> 2. Ill use the recommended Dilutions from each manufacturer.
> 3. Dwell time will also be to manufacture recommendations.
> 4. Before/After photos
> 5. Comments on each product
> 6. Costs associated with each product.
> 
> *Contenders (so far)*
> 
> Carbon Collective Ultimus Snow Foam
> Gtechniq W4 Citrus Foam
> GYEON Q2M Foam
> Koch Chemie GSF Gentle Snow Foam
> TAC System Ultra Snow Foam
> Wax Planet Seven Below PH Neutral Snow Foam
> 
> (If there are any you would like to see let me know).
> 
> Its worth noting that ill end up with a lot of product not being used so after each test ill stick them for sale in the personal detailing sales section, may be helpful if you want to try yourself.
> 
> First up will be wax planet 7 below which ill upload this weekend.


If you send me your address, I'll throw my product in for a test, as a pure snow foam


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## ///M Sport

I know this could well be a ball ache, but could you use different snowfoams on different panels so they don’t interfere with each other? Appreciate that I’m this is easier said than done, maybe applying through a pump sprayer might help?


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## ///M Sport

I’d be interested to see how AG polar blast fairs. When using over a polar seal protected car I’ve always thought I had better water beading when rinsing compared to BHAF.


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## pt1

Well done , looking forward to seeing your findings 

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## P2K

Great thread, thank you for taking the time and effort to do this.
I look forward to reading/seeing the results and your opinions on each :thumb:


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## Carscope

Couple of deliveries today










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## AndyQash

Oh yes...Gyeon Foam is my favourite and I can't wait to see what it looks like when used with the MTM, though I tried CarPro Reset through the lance this morning and it was very, very good and really creamy, made the brush work a doddle so thanks for the tip Danny.

It may turn out that W4 is best suited to your needs, as it will be designed to work with your specific coating, but we'll see.

Really looking forward to this, so thanks for taking the time fella.


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## Carscope

AndyQash said:


> Oh yes...Gyeon Foam is my favourite and I can't wait to see what it looks like when used with the MTM, though I tried CarPro Reset through the lance this morning and it was very, very good and really creamy, made the brush work a doddle so thanks for the tip Danny.
> 
> It may turn out that W4 is best suited to your needs, as it will be designed to work with your specific coating, but we'll see.
> 
> Really looking forward to this, so thanks for taking the time fella.


Yeah if I had to say which one I think will suit me best before testing then I'd probably say Gtechniq


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## AndyQash

Eturty said:


> Yeah if I had to say which one I think will suit me best before testing then I'd probably say Gtechniq


I think I agree. though there could be a few surprises in there.


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## Carscope

AndyQash said:


> I think I agree. though there could be a few surprises in there.


After testing loads of shampoos I was definitely surprised by some. That's what's this hobby is all about at the end of the day!

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## Carscope

Hey guys, 

Quick update I’m just collating a list of all the foams that I’ll try for this and was hoping you could help me out differentiating the valet pro selection for testing. 

They seem to make numerous ‘ph neutral foams’ 

Formula 1 

Ph neutral snow foam 

Advanced neutral snow foam 

Which is the one you guys would like to see? 


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## Carscope

Also the list so far;

Carbon Collective Ultimus Snow Foam

Gtechniq W4 Citrus Foam

GYEON Q2M Foam

Koch Chemie GSF Gentle Snow Foam

TAC System Ultra Snow Foam

Wax Planet Seven Below PH Neutral Snow Foam

ULTRAFOAM - PH NEUTRAL SNOW FOAM

AG Polar blast

DETAILED ONLINE Ph Neutral LAVA Snow Foam

CarChem Pre-Soak

Autofinesse Avalanche

Autobrite SUPERFOAM pH NEUTRAL FOAM


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## atbalfour

Eturty said:


> Also the list so far;
> 
> Carbon Collective Ultimus Snow Foam
> 
> Gtechniq W4 Citrus Foam
> 
> GYEON Q2M Foam
> 
> Koch Chemie GSF Gentle Snow Foam
> 
> TAC System Ultra Snow Foam
> 
> Wax Planet Seven Below PH Neutral Snow Foam
> 
> ULTRAFOAM - PH NEUTRAL SNOW FOAM
> 
> AG Polar blast
> 
> DETAILED ONLINE Ph Neutral LAVA Snow Foam
> 
> CarChem Pre-Soak
> 
> Autofinesse Avalanche
> 
> Autobrite SUPERFOAM pH NEUTRAL FOAM


There are different categories of foam which you may want to call out as part of your review.. Gyeon Foam for example is an Alkaline foam, whereas many of the others are pH neutral. Not saying that means it'll eat LSPs any quicker, but the pH value will be an interesting factor to consider if you've a way to test them!


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## Carscope

atbalfour said:


> There are different categories of foam which you may want to call out as part of your review.. Gyeon Foam for example is an Alkaline foam, whereas many of the others are pH neutral. Not saying that means it'll eat LSPs any quicker, but the pH value will be an interesting factor to consider if you've a way to test them!


Yeah I'll be testing the PH levels for each product so will be interesting to see

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## AD18

Thanks for doing this, great idea and to be honest without this or your previous thread I'd have jumped on the auto foam wagon and then been in utter dismay once realising any of my LSP is gone. A difficult test to do but I hope you get a good set of results from it! Will be eagerly waiting the outcomes.


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## GSVHammer

Eturty said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Quick update I'm just collating a list of all the foams that I'll try for this and was hoping you could help me out differentiating the valet pro selection for testing.
> 
> They seem to make numerous 'ph neutral foams'
> 
> Formula 1
> 
> Ph neutral snow foam
> 
> Advanced neutral snow foam
> 
> Which is the one you guys would like to see?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Advanced Neutral Snow Foam as it's supposed to clean like an Alkaline cleaner but it's PH Neutral.


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## Carscope

Huge thank you to Kenan for sending these I really appreciate it mate. Looking forward to trying them soon.

Cheers 
E 









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## straight6hatch

love this idea. Kudos to you for accepting this monumental task!

In regards to actually testing the LSP desgredation of specific foams, I do have a suggestion of sorts.

Its clear that testing all these on the car is going to take YEARS to reliably test them, by which time theres been 300 new snow foams and 35 new ceramic coatings - most likely to all claim they dont do the specific thing you're trying to test!

As much as I am going off the idea of the 'youtube test' of applying a coating, gridding off a test panel and then going at them with the harshest alkaline product known to man and seeing which one dies first - there may be something to this that we can take away.

Heres my mad thought - Do exactly as the youtube test does. Apply a ceramic coating or LSP to a test panel and then grid it off. You could then apply (neat to speed things up?) each snow foam to its respective grid to see which degrades the LSP first?

Go easy on me, im just a weekend warrior but this could be a suitable option? Thoughts? I appreciate it wont help with the 'real world' element of the test but at least it will focus specifically on the degredation element. You could marry this kind of test along side the actual cleaning side of things to create the mother of all reviews!

Will


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## AndyQash

Good on ya, Kenan :thumb:


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## Carscope

Okay here's the first test I finished up this morning, enjoy!

*Wax Planet 7 Below*










*Introduction*

First up we have Wax planet 7 Below snow foam, sort of the weaker cousin to the 8 below snow foam which has gotten a lot of attention recently. I only have a 10ml sample of this but that should be more than enough for a fair test.

*Manufacturer Description*

"Seven below is a concentrated PH neutral snow foam formulated to give exceptional cleaning power and a long dwell time.
Treat your paintwork to a gentle yet powerful soak to loosen road grime and contaminants knowing that your LSP won't be compromised ."










*Manufacturer Directions*

"Dilute 1:10 for heavy soiling and 1:20 for routine washes."



















*PH Values*

NEAT: 8.52










DILUTED: 8.85










P.I.R.: 7.37










Overall










*Foaming*

I've decided to do a side by side for the initial application against after leaving it to dwell for 10 minutes:














































*Cleaning power*

Also I thought it would be better to show the before and after conditions side by side to get a better look at the cleaning power:














































*Costs*










*Conclusion*

Overall I thought this snow foam cleaned pretty well, It's worth noting a large amount of cleaning is done by the pressure washer but this definitely knocked down that 'film' that it is difficult to shift with pressure washing alone. It rinsed cleanly and didn't annoyingly continue to foam as you blow it out with the pressure washer. Personally I would have liked to have less foam and a shorter dwell time, as the dwelling for around 10 minutes is quite long. However I think if you want a relatively neutral snow foam that foams nicely and won't break the bank I recommend you give this a go.

Next up will be Gtechniq so stay tuned for next week. Also ill be switching to use PH test strips as I think it will be a bit easier. Also sorry about the quality of the images, I'm working on sorting this now


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## Kenan

Very good review, I also like seven below. Looking forward to the others.

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## AndyQash

Agreed...a very good review, looks like it cleans pretty well and produces the type of foam that I like, not to dry so it makes brush work real easy.

Nice one fella :thumb:


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## Carscope

Thanks for the replies guys, Tapatalk users can you confirm if you can see the pictures? Doesn’t seem to be showing up for me 


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## sharrkey

Pictures showing for me No problem, appreciate you talking the time as effort to do this also 

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## GeeWhizRS

Good job Eturty.
Well, I've learned something already regarding pH readings. I would have assumed that our tap water would be around 7 on the pH scale, and as such, I would have expected your pH reading to be lower when diluted (8.8) than when neat (8.5). A quick internet search on united utilities website says anywhere between 6.5-9.5 is allowable. That raised my eyebrows. So is your tap water near 9 on the pH scale? If that is so, would a higher pH water give a more aggressive clean?
What's confusing me is that if your water is move alkaline (higher pH) than the neat foam concentrate that when you tested the PIR, it's the lowest pH reading of all, when logic would suggest it should be the highest. 🤔


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## pt1

Great work eturty, lots of work gone into that. Well done 

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## Carscope

GeeWhizRS said:


> Good job Eturty.
> Well, I've learned something already regarding pH readings. I would have assumed that our tap water would be around 7 on the pH scale, and as such, I would have expected your pH reading to be lower when diluted (8.8) than when neat (8.5). A quick internet search on united utilities website says anywhere between 6.5-9.5 is allowable. That raised my eyebrows. So is your tap water near 9 on the pH scale? If that is so, would a higher pH water give a more aggressive clean?
> What's confusing me is that if your water is move alkaline (higher pH) than the neat foam concentrate that when you tested the PIR, it's the lowest pH reading of all, when logic would suggest it should be the highest. 🤔


Hi Mate, Yeah I think you may be right, I have a DI vessel for the pressure washer so for future tests so I could run it with DI water. Although that won't be representative for everyone. What do you think?


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## GeeWhizRS

Have you tested the pH of your tap water and also what it is from the outlet of your DI Vessel? I'm not sure if or how the DI Vessel would affect the pH.
This large swing in apparent pH level allowance (under regulations) does make me wonder if this is why we see some people recommend a particular product and another person somewhere else in the country say it doesn't work that well for them. If you have a particular product used at say pH 7 in one areas and pH 9 in another, can you say that is a fair comparison? In other words, is this why certain LSP don't last in some areas?


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## Carscope

GeeWhizRS said:


> Have you tested the pH of your tap water and also what it is from the outlet of your DI Vessel? I'm not sure if or how the DI Vessel would affect the pH.
> This large swing in apparent pH level allowance (under regulations) does make me wonder if this is why we see some people recommend a particular product and another person somewhere else in the country say it doesn't work that well for them. If you have a particular product used at say pH 7 in one areas and pH 9 in another, can you say that is a fair comparison? In other words, is this why certain LSP don't last in some areas?


Its an interesting difference for sure! I've got some PH test strips arriving on Wednesday so will post up my findings.


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## atbalfour

Great start Henri! Awesomely presented findings too.


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## roscopervis

That’s a good review and, apart from the pH info, reflects what I’ve found with this product - works well for a ‘neutral’ foam. However, what we still don’t know is - does it affect the LSP? 

The pH level isn’t the only measure of whether something will be damaging to LSP’s, so would consistent use of this degrade LSP’s more than say Autofoam at 1% pir?


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## Carscope

roscopervis said:


> That's a good review and, apart from the pH info, reflects what I've found with this product - works well for a 'neutral' foam. However, what we still don't know is - does it affect the LSP?
> 
> The pH level isn't the only measure of whether something will be damaging to LSP's, so would consistent use of this degrade LSP's more than say Autofoam at 1% pir?


I did try and point out early that there's no way for me to see if any of these snow foams will degrade LSP's. So by providing the only info we have (ph values) you can deduce your own conclusions.

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## Carscope

Hey guys a huge thank you to Ross at anachem for sending out this snow foam, I was thinking a sample not a whole 5 litres! Very generous so thank you!

Look forward to trying it 










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## [email protected]

you are very welcome


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## Carscope

Another snow foam arrived today!

Will be a slight delay before the next review chaps as I'm away this weekend, hope to post something up on Tuesday 










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## Andyblue

Eturty said:


> Hey guys a huge thank you to Ross at anachem for sending out this snow foam, I was thinking a sample not a whole 5 litres! Very generous so thank you!
> 
> Look forward to trying it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very generous. Looking forward to your thoughts on it.

If it's anything like the samples of shampoo I've tried, it'll perform well :thumb:


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## GeeWhizRS

Eturty, if you are adding reviews to this thread as you go along, I would recommend editing your first post so that beside your foam names you add a link to the post you make for each individual review. It will makes finding each much easier if this thread gets much longer. :thumb:


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## Carscope

GeeWhizRS said:


> Eturty, if you are adding reviews to this thread as you go along, I would recommend editing your first post so that beside your foam names you add a link to the post you make for each individual review. It will makes finding each much easier if this thread gets much longer. :thumb:


Good idea fella I will do

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## Carscope

Okay Guys just finished up using Gtechniq Citrus Foam, Here's my findings.

* Gtechniq Snow foam*










*Manufacturer Description*

_Unlike traditional pre-wash snow foams that come loaded with caustic chemicals, W4 Citrus Foam is a pH neutral formula that removes hard to shift grime without damaging coatings.
It combines an effective citrus degreaser, with a foaming agent, making it tough on road grime and bug splatter.
It can be used at a dilution of up to 10:1 through a foam lance. And also through a pump sprayer._

*Testing Notes*

Seeing as my car is coated with CSL & EXO I'll be interested to see how this fares.

*Manufacturer Directions*

_•	Shake bottle well before use
•	Decant one inch (2.5cm) of W4 into a foam lance and fill with warm water
•	Spray onto the surface of the vehicle from bottom to top
•	Leave the foam to dwell on the surface for three to five minutes, and then rinse thoroughly with clean water_

*Testing Notes*

You'll want to bump this up a bit to get a decent blanket of foam, in the end I used around 125ml to make 1 litre of solution.

*PH Values*










Neat: 4 
Diluted: 6
P.I.R. :6










*Foaming*










































*Cleaning*


































*Costs*









*Conclusion*

I found this foam to have quite a bit of bite in terms of ridding the car of the fine road film that can be difficult to shift. Also I love how quickly I disperses after the initial application, really speeds up the pre washing process. Overall a really good snow foam, one I would recommend if you don't want to be sitting around for ages waiting for a snow foam to dwell. Also knowing its designed to work with a coating gives a bit of peace of mind also.

Next up will be Gyeon Foam so stay tuned!


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## AndyQash

Another belting test, fella 

Looks like it has worked well, and good to know it plays well with GTECHNIQ coatings and so it should.

Really looking forward to the next one, Gyeon Foam is my favourite.


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## atbalfour

Good read. You need to get your car dirtier tho 

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## Carscope

atbalfour said:


> Good read. You need to get your car dirtier tho
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


I know right!

I did a full 300 mile round trip as well (going up and down south) i thought it would be filthy but i guess the coating is pretty good in terms of self cleaning. ill do some donuts in the mud before the next test haha


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## Carscope

*Gyeon Q2M Foam*










*Manufacturer Description*

Gyeon Q²M Foam is a highly concentrated snow foam designed to gently dissolve and lift away a high proportion of dirt and grime in a completely touchless fashion. Although best suited to regular use and tackling relatively fresh contaminants, it is also powerful enough to tackle more persistent road films that have gone through multiple wetting and drying cycles and become more firmly bonded. The main ingredient in Gyeon Q²M Foam is a powerful blend of non-caustic surfactants that safely loosens the bond between dirt and underlying surfaces without stripping or otherwise degrading existing layers of protection. Fast-acting and safe for use on all exterior automotive surfaces, Gyeon Q²M Foam also rinses away easily and completely to leave such surfaces looking clean and streak-free. This is very beneficial on vehicles protected with silica-based coatings, as residues can otherwise diminish their inherent and hugely beneficial self-cleaning properties. When properly diluted, Gyeon Q²M Foam is completely safe for use on all exterior automotive surfaces, including sensitive materials such as polished aluminium. Because it is highly concentrated, Gyeon Q²M Foam offers a degree of latitude with respect to its effective dilution rate. During the summer months, as little as 50 ml is needed (in the bottle of a PA Foam Lance) to remove dust and pollen, whereas in the winter months up to 200 ml can be used (in the bottle of a PA Foam Lance) to tackle thick salty grime.

*Testing Notes*

Excited to try this one as it's another product that has been 'designed' to work with coatings. Product has a loose viscosity which makes pouring it much easier than the thicker Gtechniq offering from last week.

*Manufacturer Directions*

Gyeon Q²M Foam is suitable for use in any foam gun or foam lance system, as long as a final dilution ratio of approximately 100:1 (waterroduct) can be achieved.

*Testing Notes*

Car is pretty filthy after a recent country excursion so I went for about 110ml in the foam cannon.

*PH Values*

(NEAT)










(DILUTED)










(P.I.R.)



















*Foaming*














































*Cleaning*














































*Costs*










*Conclusion*

I really like this foam, I first thought it was far too thick but its disperses so quickly it doesn't matter, had decent cleaning effect too while also being easy to rinse. while expensive this is a great option if you car is coated. Also interesting to see how alkaline this is a yet it comes out neutral once diluted.

Next up will be Koch GSF


----------



## Carscope

P.S. if there anything else any of you want me to add into these reviews let me know! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## St Evelyn

That's an impressive amount of cleaning power - I didn't expect to see it clean the car up quite as well as that, although I guess the rinse will have helped as well...?


----------



## Carscope

St Evelyn said:


> That's an impressive amount of cleaning power - I didn't expect to see it clean the car up quite as well as that, although I guess the rinse will have helped as well...?


Yes mate! Cars coated too so usually whips of the dirt pretty well

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AndyQash

Cracking review...as I've said before this is my favourite foam, it really is a very good product, especially on a coated car.


----------



## GeeWhizRS

Eturty, what angle of nozzle are you using to rinse?


----------



## Carscope

GeeWhizRS said:


> Eturty, what angle of nozzle are you using to rinse?


45 degree


----------



## atbalfour

To see the PH be diluted right down was interesting to me anyway as I did see Jon state this one was between 10 and 12 albeit that must have been neat or in the foam lance rather than on the panel.

General consensus I've read online was that it was one of those superficial lightweight foams - would be very interested to see if it made a dent in traffic film. Loose dirt is easily rinsed off with a pressure washer.


----------



## Carscope

atbalfour said:


> To see the PH be diluted right down was interesting to me anyway as I did see Jon state this one was between 10 and 12 albeit that must have been neat or in the foam lance rather than on the panel.
> 
> General consensus I've read online was that it was one of those superficial lightweight foams - would be very interested to see if it made a dent in traffic film. Loose dirt is easily rinsed off with a pressure washer.


Yeah I did previously try and show the post rinsed panel before but it's just doesn't show up on camera due to the panel being wet, the cleaning action was really good for such a soft foam.

Regarding the PH I don't think anyone has really measured snow foams at PIR so it's making for some interesting findings that's for sure.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Carscope

Review of ultra foam coming this weekend folks, I will say the car has barely moved so won't be able to comment on cleaning power particularly, I'll post up foams pics and PH values still!

Also looks like carpro have entered the fold with there new foam 'lift' as soon as it's available I'll be sure to try it out










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## atbalfour

Be good to hear if any of the foams you've used so far are easier to rinse than others - lot of foams I have used leave an element of residue which requires considerable rinsing and in many cases requires the contact wash with Reset or similar to return the beading to it's finest.


----------



## Carscope

atbalfour said:


> Be good to hear if any of the foams you've used so far are easier to rinse than others - lot of foams I have used leave an element of residue which requires considerable rinsing and in many cases requires the contact wash with Reset or similar to return the beading to it's finest.


Yeah I'll be tallying them but so far the easiest to rinse (in descending order)

1. Gtechniq 
2. Gyeon
3. Wax planet

Also it's the same order for foam 'reactivation' which can be annoying when your trying to flush the foam out grills, mirrors etc.

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## Guest

Eturty said:


> Review of ultra foam coming this weekend folks, I will say the car has barely moved so won't be able to comment on cleaning power particularly, I'll post up foams pics and PH values still!
> 
> Also looks like carpro have entered the fold with there new foam 'lift' as soon as it's available I'll be sure to try it out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


LIFT's alkalinity is concerning... will be VERY interesting to test this one on a coated panel. Looks like PH is 12 according to the website, but that's unclear as to whether that is the straight product or at 10:1 dilution, or at the panel when foamed. PH 12 might be ok on a coating, but it still seems a bad idea to me. I can only hope carpro tested in vigorously or they will have people wondering why their coating are failing well short of expected longevity. But if it is anywhere near as good a product as reset it'll be a real winner.

Hopefully the new CarPro stuff makes its way to the UK soon!


----------



## Brian1612

DannyRS3 said:


> LIFT's alkalinity is concerning... will be VERY interesting to test this one on a coated panel. Looks like PH is 12 according to the website, but that's unclear as to whether that is the straight product or at 10:1 dilution, or at the panel when foamed. PH 12 might be ok on a coating, but it still seems a bad idea to me. I can only hope carpro tested in vigorously or they will have people wondering why their coating are failing well short of expected longevity. But if it is anywhere near as good a product as reset it'll be a real winner.
> 
> Hopefully the new CarPro stuff makes its way to the UK soon!


It will be neat in the bottle. Imagine diluted it will be in the 8s for ph level. Doesn't tell the full story with regards to safety on LSPs but it's at least an indication.

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## Carscope

Hey all,

Here are my fining for Anachems ultra foam. Worth noting that the car was pretty much clean as it has barely moved since the last wash! so ill just be commenting on the PH Values and foaming in this review. Ill re test cleaning ability at a later date.

*Anachem Ultra-foam*










*Manufacturer Description*

UltraFoam is our pH neutral snow foam.
It is super foamy, will not dull metals or trims, will not strip waxes, polishes or sealants.
UltraFoam is a pure foam, designed to allow longer dwell times of your chosen pre-wash
For best results, we recommend used in conjunction with Articulate as a pre-wash, foam vehicle with UltraFoam, hand wash with Gleam and finish with UltraGloss.

*Testing Notes*

I couldn't find any recommended dilutions on the website it does however say on the side of the bottle. It may be worth adding to the website too. 
Manufacturer Directions
Dilute 1 part ultra foam with up to 25 parts water.

*Testing Notes*

I found I had to use around 120ml to get the kind of foam I was after.

*PH Values*

Neat










Diluted










P.I.R.










*Foaming*





































Costs










Conclusion

This is a very fine foam, Rinsing was very good too. Ill post up with some cleaning phots when I try it again.

Next up will be Koch chemie GSF.


----------



## [email protected]

thanks for that test - I've been waiting with baited breath to see the results!


----------



## Rappy

Thanks for posting :thumb:


----------



## atbalfour

[email protected] said:


> thanks for that test - I've been waiting with baited breath to see the results!


It's a good product and works really well at helping keep the underlying pre-wash working for longer. Haven't had any experience using it standalone (always over Articulate) but I've recently detailed a mate's ceramic coated car and he used these two Anachem decon products religiously and the car was in exceptional condition after over 2 years despite the miles he has done. This foam categorically will not impact LSPs at the correct dilution as his was very much still present and beading on all but 2 panels after 2.5 years and months since he last topped with Anachem's QD.

@Ross - just out of interest and given the other ongoing thread is this something you test as part of the release of new products?


----------



## Carscope

Yeah it’s really interesting seeing how much the PH value is being knocked down by water. I need to get my hands on some BH AF to try and see what the PIR is. 


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## Kenan

Eturty said:


> Yeah it's really interesting seeing how much the PH value is being knocked down by water. I need to get my hands on some BH AF to try and see what the PIR is.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I also have AutoFoam and could of sent you a sample 

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected]

atbalfour said:


> It's a good product and works really well at helping keep the underlying pre-wash working for longer. Haven't had any experience using it standalone (always over Articulate) but I've recently detailed a mate's ceramic coated car and he used these two Anachem decon products religiously and the car was in exceptional condition after over 2 years despite the miles he has done. This foam categorically will not impact LSPs at the correct dilution as his was very much still present and beading on all but 2 panels after 2.5 years and months since he last topped with Anachem's QD.
> 
> @Ross - just out of interest and given the other ongoing thread is this something you test as part of the release of new products?


Thats amazing to read, and does make me very very happy!

yes, if you have been watching on rmsmotoring, you'll see that there are a few members who are pushing at me for talking about products too soon, and its a bit of an issue I guess, but I do get really excited and just want to tell people!!!

I do thorough and extensive testing before bringing something to the market, and won't release something before its ready.

Looking at my new long term trim restoration product - there have been 6 or 7 guys who have got a chance to do some early long term testing, and although I know it works, and has been tested over a period of almost 12 months by me, I want to make sure that when its released people will see the effects of proper testing will demonstrate.

Another example was my citrus cleaner. It was simply too strong, and I didn't feel confident that releasing something too powerful was right. I looked at some of the top rated products on here, and on other various forums / Facebook groups, and tried to make something stronger than the best. And thats not always a good thing.

So I dialled things back, and have something ready for launch now which will do a great job as a standalone product (using approximately 20ml in a 750ml spray bottle is cleaning absolutely everything, and safely too) and has proven to be fantastic in rejuvenating ceramic coating which are 'cloggy' and not behaving as they should.

sorry to derail the thread @Eturty


----------



## Dipesh

Great post, really interesting on the PH info


----------



## Carscope

Hey guys,

Sorry for the lack of updates this week I was busy sorting out the garage (which if you interested you can see here: https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=423591)

Ill be trying out GSF this weekend so will post then.

Cheers

E


----------



## JU5T1N

I have used Anachems ultra foam myself and got very different results, I did use at 1:10 and in an ikfoam 12 I got clingy thick foam, when testing these snowfoams I think you should use the ratio the manufacture recommends as some products are simply more concentrated than others. Also the ph test looks very odd for ultrafoam going from a strong alkaline to a weak acid?.
The cleaning power of ultrafoam alone is poor maybe softens the dirt a little at most, it doesn't effect lsps in anyway.


I know it is meant to be used as a 2 part system but what advantage does applying the detergent and foam separately have?. Why not just use a strong snow foam like auto-foam?.


----------



## Carscope

JU5T1N said:


> I have used Anachems ultra foam myself and got very different results, I did use at 1:10 and in an ikfoam 12 I got clingy thick foam, when testing these snowfoams I think you should use the ratio the manufacture recommends as some products are simply more concentrated than others. Also the ph test looks very odd for ultrafoam going from a strong alkaline to a weak acid?.
> The cleaning power of ultrafoam alone is poor maybe softens the dirt a little at most, it doesn't effect lsps in anyway.
> 
> I know it is meant to be used as a 2 part system but what advantage does applying the detergent and foam separately have?. Why not just use a strong snow foam like auto-foam?.


Hi Mate,

1. I did use the foam at the manufacturers guide line, worth noting that an IK foamer is very different to a foam cannon as there is no further dilution as no water is passing through it.

2.I too found the PH interesting, as you can see from the other snow foams once passed though the foam lance the strength is greatly reduced.

3. I started this thread in response to using strong cleaners as the current general consensus is that strong cleaners like BH Autofoam may be too harsh on coated cars thus reducing there durability.


----------



## Carscope

*Koch Chemie GSF Gentle Snow Foam *










Looking forward to trying this as its definitely become a bit of a hype product now Koch has broken into the US market.

*Manufacturer Description*
The high foaming, pH neutral cleaning foam with a unique cherry fragrance can be used as a Snow Foam for pre-washing when applied using a foam gun or foam sprayer, and as a shampoo for manual car washing. Gentle Snow Foam develops an even, well-moistened foam blanket that sticks to the entire surface, thereby allowing a long application time. Due to its pH neutral formula, it does not corrode waxed or sealed surfaces. The Gentle Snow Foam can be enriched with the Green Star to create an active foam in order to quickly remove stubborn dirt and insects

*Initial thoughts*

Smells good! Pretty thick in consistency. Only available in 1L which is a bit of a shame.

*Manufacturer Directions*
•	Pour approx. 20 ml Snow Foam into 1 l water and lather the vehicle using a foam sprayer. If necessary, clean with washing mitts or similar and rinse with water.

*Testing Notes*

I was very sceptical about only using 20ml but out of the interest of science I used 20l to 1L. it mixes well even with cold water. Decided to try out one of these syringes for dosing seemed to work well (i topped off the other few ml that the syringe didn't get).










*PH Values*

_*Neat*_









*Diluted *









_*P.I.R.*_









*Scale*









*Testing notes*
Interesting to see there was no change between PH Values across the range. Definitely a mild cleaner.

*Foaming*






















































































As you can see not a huge amount of foaming, however the foam did seem to stick to the dirtier areas of the car. I'm sure of you upped it to around 50-100ml you would have more foam if that's you thing.

*Cleaning*





































































Cleaning ability was pretty good, not as good as some of the alkaline foams I've tested, Its hard to tell on wet panels in the pictures but you can tell that still a bit of film left over after rinsing.

*Costs*









*Conclusion*
After using it as a snow foam gave it a go as a shampoo and was impressed, its very slick and foams really well when you up the dilution. However that's where the issues come in, personally for me I think this is more of a neutral shampoo then a straight up snow foam. It doesn't have the necessary bite nor dwell time to classify itself as foam. I may do another test as a higher dilution to increase the dwell time and reassess. if any of you are in the market for a neutral shampoo however I recommend you give this a look.

Next week ill be diving into the snow foams sent in by Kenan.

Cheers
E


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## AndyQash

Another well presented test, fella...just out of curiosity, how much product are you using as a shampoo in say 20L of water.


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## Carscope

AndyQash said:


> Another well presented test, fella...just out of curiosity, how much product are you using as a shampoo in say 20L of water.


I put about 100ml in the foam cannon and about 30ml in the bucket for shampooing. I always foam my shampoos over the car when I do a the contact wash, found it provides a bit more lubrication.


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## AndyQash

Nice one, apparently Gyeon Bathe works well when foamed, so will give that a go on the next wash.


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## atbalfour

Eturty said:


> I put about 100ml in the foam cannon and about 30ml in the bucket for shampooing. I always foam my shampoos over the car when I do a the contact wash, found it provides a bit more lubrication.


You are burning through quite a bit of product ha! I am getting away with about 30ml of Mystic Bubble in a lance, and slightly less in the bucket. Each lance will get me a couple of cars.

Not looking for super thick foam as I would a snow foam but find it clings remarkably well even at that dilution (appreciate PIR, water input etc vary)


----------



## Carscope

atbalfour said:


> You are burning through quite a bit of product ha! I am getting away with about 30ml of Mystic Bubble in a lance, and slightly less in the bucket. Each lance will get me a couple of cars.
> 
> Not looking for super thick foam as I would a snow foam but find it clings remarkably well even at that dilution (appreciate PIR, water input etc vary)


Yeah I'm always a bit generous with the products for some reason, main reason being as sometimes they only get used once so want to give them the best chance to impress. As long as it's neutral it doesn't matter really

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## roscopervis

Eturty said:


> Yeah I'm always a bit generous with the products for some reason, main reason being as sometimes they only get used once so want to give them the best chance to impress. As long as it's neutral it doesn't matter really


I think that the whole thrust of Forensic Detailing's "Cat amongst the pigeons" videos is that pH neutrality isn't the main issue, and perhaps other issues are. I'm going to explore myself different application methods of Autofoam to see if that makes a difference as I can't explain why our tests are so different, and I know it isn't prep (I would be humble enough to say so if it was), I am one of the first to look at prep as an issue and try and help out where I can if I see potential issues with it when people have questions or make observations on issues with their products.

One of the other potential issues relating to degradation is dilution ratios, particularly with highly concentrated products. If a product says use 5ml in 10 litres for example, but you go and splash (ok drip) 10 ml in, you have doubled the effective concentration and it's strength or pir so may well suds more, but will also have twice the surfactants etc which may eat away at dirt or the weak edges of protection. If you do this in a foam gun and put in 100ml when 30 ml is enough, then that is again a lot more chemicals on the paint. It might just be a typically gentle soap, but that is when tested at it's normal dilution. Used at 3 times its strength, it possibly isn't any more.

Take Turtlewax's M.A.X. Power car shampoo -

MODERATE cleaning 100ml per 4 litre bucket for a pH-neutral dilution that removes every day dirt and grime.
AGGRESSIVE cleaning 200ml per 4 litre bucket to increase the pH-level to remove bug splatter, heavy dirt and salt stains.
XTREME cleaning 300ml per 4 litre bucket for the pH-cleaning power to safely remove tree sap. Great for removing brake dust from wheels.

So this goes from a safe 'pH neutral' shampoo at normal levels to a heavy duty one at 3 times the strength that removes tree sap. I haven't used this product, so I have no idea whether it is kind to LSP's or not, but my point is just because something is pH neutral, doesn't mean it's safe!


----------



## JU5T1N

No ph isn't everything, ph neutral products can contain harsh corrosive chemicals like Sodium hydroxide the higher the p.i.r the more of this harsh chemical you have on the surface. Auto foam uses Alcohol Ethoxylate which makes oils soluble in water and isn't corrosive, Auto foam doesn't appear to contain any harsh corrosive chemicals despite its high ph and is probably one of the more safer snow foams on the market.

Turtlewax's M.A.X isn't ph neutral neat its ph 13 - 14, at the recommend dilutions it will be around ph 11-12 it contains Sodium hydroxide, Butoxyethanol a solvent , Tetrasodium a corrosive salt Sodium Metasilicate another corrosive salt. It would probably have an effect on lsp's and likely strip some but not just because of the ph.


----------



## roscopervis

JU5T1N said:


> No ph isn't everything, ph neutral products can contain harsh corrosive chemicals like Sodium hydroxide the higher the p.i.r the more of this harsh chemical you have on the surface. Auto foam uses Alcohol Ethoxylate which makes oils soluble in water and isn't corrosive, Auto foam doesn't appear to contain any harsh corrosive chemicals despite its high ph and is probably one of the more safer snow foams on the market.
> 
> Turtlewax's M.A.X isn't ph neutral neat its ph 13 - 14, at the recommend dilutions it will be around ph 11-12 it contains Sodium hydroxide, Butoxyethanol a solvent , Tetrasodium a corrosive salt Sodium Metasilicate another corrosive salt. It would probably have an effect on lsp's and likely strip some but not just because of the ph.


That is interesting, I just plucked the Turtlewax Shampoo out of my mind as a shampoo that is designed to be used at 3 different dilutions, with one meant to be safe, and one aggressive. Butoxyethanol is the ingredient that was identified in Koch Chemie Fse that breaks down the ceramic coatings (a tip off to Andreas Schwarzinger, XaronFR). It is also in Purifica from Labocosmetica so I'm thinking it's effective against water spots, though the above products are acidic and this shampoo is alkaline so I'm not sure how that works in the bigger picture.


----------



## Carscope

JU5T1N said:


> No ph isn't everything, ph neutral products can contain harsh corrosive chemicals like Sodium hydroxide the higher the p.i.r the more of this harsh chemical you have on the surface. Auto foam uses Alcohol Ethoxylate which makes oils soluble in water and isn't corrosive, Auto foam doesn't appear to contain any harsh corrosive chemicals despite its high ph and is probably one of the more safer snow foams on the market.
> 
> Turtlewax's M.A.X isn't ph neutral neat its ph 13 - 14, at the recommend dilutions it will be around ph 11-12 it contains Sodium hydroxide, Butoxyethanol a solvent , Tetrasodium a corrosive salt Sodium Metasilicate another corrosive salt. It would probably have an effect on lsp's and likely strip some but not just because of the ph.


Very true! There's only so much I can show through trying these foams. Perhaps I could add a list of ingredients to each review of the products?

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## JU5T1N

Butoxyethanol is a solvent its ph is probley near neutral, solvents work differently to surfectents , surfectents will make the oils on the surface soluble in water and will just displace them from the surface, solvents will attack the oils and break them down there much more aggressive than surfectents.
Solvents do breakdown calcium deposits, calcium deposits are also alkaline so the fact fse is acidic also helps.


----------



## JU5T1N

Eturty said:


> Very true! There's only so much I can show through trying these foams. Perhaps I could add a list of ingredients to each review of the products?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Msds sheets aren't always easy to get hold of.


----------



## Carscope

JU5T1N said:


> Msds sheets aren't always easy to get hold of.


Ill try my best, I hope these tests are still useful?


----------



## Carscope

Hey guys,

I'm on the hunt for data sheets for each of the foams I've tested.

I'll keep adding to this post as i find them.

Gtechniq: https://tinyurl.com/yxq7hmgx

Koch Chemie: http://www.koch-chemie.de/SDBL/Gentle_Snow_Foam_383999_0001_EN.pdf


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## JU5T1N

Eturty said:


> Ill try my best, I hope these tests are still useful?


I don't think a snowfoam will have a noticeable impact on a ceramic coating with 1 hit but maybe after multiple hits might start to slowly wear it down, I think a better test would be to use something with poor durability like beadmaker as it will be easy to see what snowfoam effects it the most in 1 hit and the snowfoam that impacts it the least is likely to be the most lsp friendly.
With the cleaning test your using a pressure washer which will do most the cleaning anyway a better test would be to have a section without snowfoam and a section with, side by side so it will be easy to see how well the snowfoam actually cleans.


----------



## Carscope

JU5T1N said:


> I don't think a snowfoam will have a noticeable impact on a ceramic coating with 1 hit but maybe after multiple hits might start to slowly wear it down, I think a better test would be to use something with poor durability like beadmaker as it will be easy to see what snowfoam effects it the most in 1 hit and the snowfoam that impacts it the least is likely to be the most lsp friendly.
> With the cleaning test your using a pressure washer which will do most the cleaning anyway a better test would be to have a section without snowfoam and a section with, side by side so it will be easy to see how well the snowfoam actually cleans.


True! I can't really do that myself. This thread is a bit more about initial impressions on the foams avaibale

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## macmaw

Eturty said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm on the hunt for data sheets for each of the foams I've tested.
> 
> I'll keep adding to this post as i find them.
> 
> Gtechniq: https://tinyurl.com/yxq7hmgx
> 
> Koch Chemie: http://www.koch-chemie.de/SDBL/Gentle_Snow_Foam_383999_0001_EN.pdf


I always find Ultimate Finish as being very good for including MSDS, with just about every product that contains any chemicals, that I have seen on their site. 
I haven't looked at them all but every one I have looked at has an MSDS attached on the page.


----------



## dazzlers82

Great read, this is something i've came away from keeping on top of over the last few years. I just tend to have my favourites an stick with them, think it may be an age thing.


----------



## Carscope

dazzlers82 said:


> Great read, this is something i've came away from keeping on top of over the last few years. I just tend to have my favourites an stick with them, think it may be an age thing.


Got to say mate, I think this may be the best approach


----------



## Carscope

Sorry by the way guys, i know ive been slacking, 

Nest in the pipeline will be;

Polar blast
Detailed online
CARCHEM
Carpro Lift
Tac systems 
Carbon collective


----------



## Lexus-is250

Eturty said:


> Sorry by the way guys, i know ive been slacking,
> 
> Nest in the pipeline will be;
> 
> Polar blast
> Detailed online
> CARCHEM
> Carpro Lift
> Tac systems
> Carbon collective


Mate your forgiven, you have probably been too busy unloading all those new supplies that have turned up

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk


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## Carscope

Lexus-is250 said:


> Mate your forgiven, you have probably been too busy unloading all those new supplies that have turned up
> 
> Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk


Haha luckily I have a garage now I can hide them all in!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BRUN

keep these coming, very interested in all the results, especially Carpro Lift

from the pics so far, it doesnt look like you are seeing any negative effects on your coating, have you noticed any change at all ?


----------



## Carscope

Yep polar blast review coming this week, I did manage to use carpro lift the other ay unfortunately it was tipping it down so didn't bother with a review, however I was very impressed!

No negative affects on the coating so far.


----------



## BRUN

which would be your favourites so far ?

its interesting to see the Koch pictures, as you can see your coating trying to shed the snow foam, and thats after numerous hits now of various foams so it looks like its still very much in place with no issues yet


----------



## atbalfour

Eturty said:


> Yep polar blast review coming this week, I did manage to use carpro lift the other ay unfortunately it was tipping it down so didn't bother with a review, however I was very impressed!
> 
> No negative affects on the coating so far.


Out of interest has the car been topped with anything post initial coating application or after any of your snow foam hits?


----------



## Carscope

atbalfour said:


> Out of interest has the car been topped with anything post initial coating application or after any of your snow foam hits?


Nope! I've moved away from topping my coating and it seems to be performing better then ever!


----------



## Carscope

Hey guys Polar blast time! (Quick disclaimer the car was pretty clean so just taken a pic of the sill to show a bit of cleaning power.)

POLAR BLAST









Manufacturer Description
Polar Blast is a snow foam available in a 2.5 litre which can be applied using a pressure washer or foam gun as a pre-wash stage. It covers the vehicle in a rich blanket of foam that clings to paintwork to gently loosen dirt and heavy soiling prior to shampooing. 
This reduces the risk of scratches and swirl marks caused by a sponge or wash mitt moving over heavy contamination. Polar Blast can be used instead of a shampoo as long as the vehicle isn't heavily soiled, just be sure to rinse the vehicle with water first to remove the top layer of dirt.
Its pH neutral formulation will not remove any existing layers of polish or wax.

Testing Notes
I have tried this before while the thick foam is fun I didn't find its cleaning ability particularly impressive.

Manufacturer Directions

•	Before you start, check that the bodywork and wheels are cool to the touch and out of direct sunlight.
•	Polar Blast can be used at various dilutions depending on the density of foam desired. A good starting point is 100ml product to 500ml water in your foaming bottle. Adjust foam gun settings as required to increase or reduce foam.
•	Spray Polar Blast onto the vehicle, starting at the bottom, ensuring all exterior surfaces are covered, including glass and wheels.
•	Leave Polar Blast time to dwell and loosen dirt for up to 10 minutes, although do not allow it to dry on.
•	Finally, rinse thoroughly from the bottom up.

PH Values

(NEAT) 









(DILUTED) 









(P.I.R.)









PH VALUE









Foam




































































Cleaning

















Costs









Conclusion
As I mentioned before not my favourite foam, also I found it difficult to rinse. Also most annoyingly it seemed to reactivate a bit in mirrors, grilles etc. Not bad but not great! I think there are better options available for a coated car.

A huge thanks to Kenan for sending this out!

Ill take a quick deviation from Kenan's foams to use Carpro lift as the last wash before Christmas!


----------



## BRUN

which would you say is your favourite, so far


----------



## Carscope

Gyeon or carpro lift(sorry I tried it off camera) 

I like gtechniq but it’s too thick, I find thick viscosity products annoying to decant and dilute 


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## BRUN

Eturty said:


> Gyeon or carpro lift(sorry I tried it off camera)
> 
> I like gtechniq but it's too thick, I find thick viscosity products annoying to decant and dilute
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i actually prefer them lol, less likely to spill product and waste it, and if you knock it over you wont lose everything, but wouldn't be a deciding factor for me anyway, all about the performance, and coating safety


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## BRUN

considering the value on offer from the Koch Chemie compared to the others so far, would you say its a good buy even if the cleaning performance isnt up at the top

im thinking being ph neutral, with such a low price and high dilution ratio, it might be suitable for even a weekly pre wash, a lot of the others are coming in at £1 per use, which personally I think is too high for something thats just a pre wash, a helper to the main contact wash

or, is the cleaning performance just not good enough even for a pre wash ?


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## Carscope

BRUN said:


> considering the value on offer from the Koch Chemie compared to the others so far, would you say its a good buy even if the cleaning performance isnt up at the top
> 
> im thinking being ph neutral, with such a low price and high dilution ratio, it might be suitable for even a weekly pre wash, a lot of the others are coming in at £1 per use, which personally I think is too high for something thats just a pre wash, a helper to the main contact wash
> 
> or, is the cleaning performance just not good enough even for a pre wash ?


Hi bud, in my experience you need an alkaline cleaner, the PH neutral ones just don't have enough bite! A happy medium would be to buy a PH neutral foam (like Koch chemie GSF) and have some citrus pre wash on hand that you can add to your snow foam mix. This will allow you to control the cleaning power of the foam you won't to use!

Also don't be fooled by the name, a citrus pre wash is alkaline not acidic.

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## JU5T1N

#LABOCOSMETICA Do a ph netruel snowfoam called #NEVE it promises the cleaning power of an alkaline while being ph netruel and coating safe also claims to be sun safe, its an interesting product very pricey though.

The citrus cleaners are basically weak over priced apc degreasers with no citrus in them, carplan do a product called superclean its basically a weak budget apc and can be had for cheap around £10 for a 5litre might be worth a go as a coating safe prewash as I don't think when diluted down would have the strength to affect a coating but will clean better than a ph netruel snowfoam.


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## Carscope

JU5T1N said:


> #LABOCOSMETICA Do a ph netruel snowfoam called #NEVE it promises the cleaning power of an alkaline while being ph netruel and coating safe also claims to be sun safe, its an interesting product very pricey though.
> 
> The citrus cleaners are basically weak over priced apc degreasers with no citrus in them, carplan do a product called superclean its basically a weak budget apc and can be had for cheap around £10 for a 5litre might be worth a go as a coating safe prewash as I don't think when diluted down would have the strength to affect a coating but will clean better than a ph netruel snowfoam.


Hi mate, yeah I use EZ car cares citrus pre wash which is dilutable

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## roscopervis

If you pre rinse your car with your pressure washer, then use a pH neutral snowfoam on your coated car, do you find that they don’t get clean enough to go at with a 2 bucket safe wash (or safe wash equivalent)? 

I find that if my coating is working, the above is fine. However, this comes back to utilising products and their dilution ratios to suit you. A citrus product will be alkaline so you may as well use an alkaline snowfoam and reduce the dilution and save time.

As I have said, a 1% pir Autofoam dilution will be more effective than most pH neutral snowfoams, will be cost effective, and won’t harm coatings. It won’t be thick foam, but it will do the job.


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## Carscope

roscopervis said:


> If you pre rinse your car with your pressure washer, then use a pH neutral snowfoam on your coated car, do you find that they don't get clean enough to go at with a 2 bucket safe wash (or safe wash equivalent)?
> 
> I find that if my coating is working, the above is fine. However, this comes back to utilising products and their dilution ratios to suit you. A citrus product will be alkaline so you may as well use an alkaline snowfoam and reduce the dilution and save time.
> 
> As I have said, a 1% pir Autofoam dilution will be more effective than most pH neutral snowfoams, will be cost effective, and won't harm coatings. It won't be thick foam, but it will do the job.


Yeah I agree, depending on how you maintain your car you may not even need a pre wash

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## BRUN

roscopervis said:


> If you pre rinse your car with your pressure washer, then use a pH neutral snowfoam on your coated car, do you find that they don't get clean enough to go at with a 2 bucket safe wash (or safe wash equivalent)?
> 
> I find that if my coating is working, the above is fine. However, this comes back to utilising products and their dilution ratios to suit you. A citrus product will be alkaline so you may as well use an alkaline snowfoam and reduce the dilution and save time.
> 
> As I have said, a 1% pir Autofoam dilution will be more effective than most pH neutral snowfoams, will be cost effective, and won't harm coatings. It won't be thick foam, but it will do the job.


how does someone work out the PIR ?


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## Rappy

BH Autofoam doc attached :thumb:


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## AndyQash

BRUN said:


> how does someone work out the PIR ?


Decided to edit the post as it's a bit out of order on my part to include anothers Snow Foam test in your thread, Henri...sorry pal.


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## Carscope

AndyQash said:


> Decided to edit the post as it's a bit out of order on my part to include anothers Snow Foam test in your thread, Henri...sorry pal.


I don't mind dude! All this is great information

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## Carscope

Hey guys, just brief initial impressions of car pro lift










Dilution










I used 50ml to make 500ml of solution. Car pro recommend 10:1

PH values

Neat









Diluted










P.I.R.










Amazing how much the value gets knocked down by the time it fits the panel, same as Gyeon.

Foaming



































Unfortunately it started to smash it down so now after pics! Also car was pretty clean so will revisit its cleaning ability in the new year. Have to say though, it's very soluble which I like and seems to foam nicely too. Initial impressions tell me this is way up there with the best of them. It even rinses cleanly too.

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## AndyQash

Looks to be my kind of consistency as to the wetness of the foam, and similar to Gyeon in that respect, looks like another good one.

Nice one, fella.


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## BRUN

cheers, thats the one ive been waiting for the most, and VERY happy the ph comes down so much on the panel


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## Carscope

(null)Seems to be a reoccurring theme, I need to test BH AF again at PIR. Also PH isnt everything! 


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## noorth

Eturty said:


> Hey guys, just brief initial impressions of car pro lift
> 
> 
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> Dilution
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> I used 50ml to make 500ml of solution. Car pro recommend 10:1
> 
> PH values
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> Neat
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> Diluted
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> P.I.R.
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> Amazing how much the value gets knocked down by the time it fits the panel, same as Gyeon.
> 
> Foaming
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> 
> Unfortunately it started to smash it down so now after pics! Also car was pretty clean so will revisit its cleaning ability in the new year. Have to say though, it's very soluble which I like and seems to foam nicely too. Initial impressions tell me this is way up there with the best of them. It even rinses cleanly too.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nice! I have a bottle right next to me!  Haven't needed to use it yet. And well the weather is terrible..


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## WristyManchego

Eturty said:


> (null)Seems to be a reoccurring theme, I need to test BH AF again at PIR. Also PH isnt everything!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Precisely. pH and concentration are NOT the same thing.


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## Carscope

Hi all!

Happy new year to you all!

Decided to dig into Car Chem pre soak today, big thanks to Kenan for sending it over!










Now I am a hit of a dum dum and didn't take any after photos on cleaning power so you'll have to forgive me on that's one! Kenan sent me over over product for 500ml of wash solution. Pretty nondescript scent.

In terms of PH we have the below findings;

Neat










Diluted 









P.I.R.










Foaming (application)


































Foaming (dwelled)


































For me the cleaning power wasn't there! Still left with water parked on the lowers of the car and dirt 'streaks' on the bonnet and A pillars of the car.

Next up will be detailed online.

Cheers 
E

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## Andyblue

Great read and some good findings there :thumb: 

I’m desperate to get out and clean ours, but there’s snow and ice around and I’m not sure I’d be thanked for making the drive / road anymore of can I’ve scaring rink than it already is...


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## Kenan

I agree on the cleaning power of the Car-Chem product, will work for me in the summer to get the dust etc off. They have just released a Pre-Soak+ which is an alkaline base snow foam and in their works packs more punch. 

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## Dipesh

What ratio did you mix the car chem up in the Lance?

Also when you measure the PIR ph, I assume you take that sprayed straight out the Lance?

Great thread, really interesting 

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## Clean-my-sxi

Have to say im not a big fan of foams as i find they offer very little cleaning power over just using the PW. I also find i spend more time cleaning it up offf the driveway after and off anything else its cpvered.

However i recently tried the koche gsf and also found the same, very little foam,pretty much fell off the car and didnt offer much cleaning. I will be testing as a shampoo though.


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## atbalfour

@Henri gotta try the KKD Blizzard foam... really really impressed with even the pH neutral one.


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## atbalfour

Clean-my-sxi said:


> Have to say im not a big fan of foams as i find they offer very little cleaning power over just using the PW. I also find i spend more time cleaning it up offf the driveway after and off anything else its cpvered.
> 
> However i recently tried the koche gsf and also found the same, very little foam,pretty much fell off the car and didnt offer much cleaning. I will be testing as a shampoo though.


Koch Chemie GSF is gentle by name and nature... there are effective & strong cleaning foams you're either not using or diluting correctly :thumb:

Check out Alfie Detailing on YouTube... he has reviewed tens of snow foams, all the popular ones and each time shows a 50/50 between one side that's been snow foamed, the other side no product just pressure washing. You'll surprise yourself with the results.

https://www.youtube.com/user/alfierenadhie


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## Clean-my-sxi

I prefer using something like bh af in a pump sprayer if i prewash


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## Carscope

In all honesty guys none of the foams I’ve tried have really offered that much in cleaning. I need to retest BH auto foam and I’ll try out blizzard too. 

I have to say I have tried alotnif alkaline foams and that have been no adverse affects to my coating. Coating hasn’t been topped since starting the test either 


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## atbalfour

Eturty said:


> In all honesty guys none of the foams I've tried have really offered that much in cleaning. I need to retest BH auto foam and I'll try out blizzard too.
> 
> I have to say I have tried alotnif alkaline foams and that have been no adverse affects to my coating. Coating hasn't been topped since starting the test either
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How are the lower panels performing? That's always been the first point of slow down for me with Exo and also likely associated with my use of extra chemicals to remove grime from these and rear sections in a touchless way.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Carscope

atbalfour said:


> How are the lower panels performing? That's always been the first point of slow down for me with Exo and also likely associated with my use of extra chemicals to remove grime from these and rear sections in a touchless way.
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


Yep! Slowly starting to sheet now rather then bead. I only applied it in July. May try C2V3 at some point to top it up

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## noorth

Eturty said:


> In all honesty guys none of the foams I've tried have really offered that much in cleaning. I need to retest BH auto foam and I'll try out blizzard too.
> 
> I have to say I have tried alotnif alkaline foams and that have been no adverse affects to my coating. Coating hasn't been topped since starting the test either
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interesting....maybe that why its seems many pro-detailers on youtube spray APC directly on the lower panels before foaming and/or contact wash.

Pump sprayers are cheap too, i use mine all the time.


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## atbalfour

Eturty said:


> Yep! Slowly starting to sheet now rather then bead. I only applied it in July. May try C2V3 at some point to top it up
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's Exo for you... and right on cue.. mine was applied in July 2019 over CSL and started to display exact the same in November that year.

Strongly recommend you try to revive it before applying any topper. And if you can, use something a little more beefy than C2V3 which is quite frankly sh*te.

Foam with Diluted APC then Iron / Tar / Limescale removal steps as well as a wash with GT Decon Shampoo to be absolutely sure that there are no contaminants masking the coating... worst thing you can do is to top up a clogged coating as it coats the contamination and makes it way more difficult to remove, assuming it adheres to the surface at all...

Are you spraying any other products on your high grime areas that could be contributing to the accelerated degradation?

Let us know how you get on


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## noorth

Happy New Year!


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## atbalfour

noorth said:


> Atbalfour, why would you "strongly recommend" anything to do with a daily driver or really any car for that matter. Its a car.
> 
> One thing for sure once i get a true coating on my car i won't be worrying about using any APC's. I only want it to last 12 mths or so anyhow. Carpro sic looks great for outside use. They recommend a minimum of 3 hour post application dry time, sounds good to me!


Sorry, you've lost me there?

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## noorth

atbalfour said:


> Sorry, you've lost me there?
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


Just rambling again. I don't think me and you look at car care from the same perspective.  There is no black and white.

Peace.


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## atbalfour

No issues.. to be honest given my own experiences with coatings I would tend to agree with you longevity claims are pretty irrelevant for avid enthusiasts like ourselves who end up spot polishing regardless.

Where I was going with my attempt to be helpful was that where someone has spent £100 + on a multi-year coating and it starts to act up after a couple of winter months there are definitely steps to ascertain whether it's just clogged as I've seen and experienced the same myself. Detailing isn't important nor black and white but we obviously take it seriously enough to be here lol


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## sidewalkdances

@atbalfour - what do you use as a limescale remover product? Just a water spot remover?


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## atbalfour

Water spot removers sometimes unnecessarily harsh and designed for heavy limescale removal. While I'm sure they could be diluted there are dedicated products I prefer for use on the entire car to remove trace residue rather than noticeable water spots. 

Koch FSe (its a limescale removing qd so wouldn't recommend IF there is a chance you will be applying an LSP over the top as it leaves something behind which could mask ability to bond). It's a brilliant product though.. 

Labocosmetica Purifica is an acid based limescale removing shampoo / foam. Great stuff. Did see a difference on the paint but the biggest difference was how it returned hydrophobic performance to my windscreen coating.. I thought it had long gone. Makes sense given I use unfiltered water in my washer. 

Gyeon are jumping on the bandwagon too with a new acid pH coating reviving shampoo though it's name escapes me. 

Definitely a new niche of product that coating manufacturers are taking notice of and recently featured in pro detailer magazine too. 




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## Carscope

Gents!

I'm sorry I've been slacking!

I have tried a few more products but haven't done a write up for a while due to the weather being way too cold to stadna round taking shots. 

However; 

I tried detailed online - again another mild snow foam. no real cleaning ability. 

I've been playing with using neutral snow foam and dropping a bit of koch chemie GS into the mix to adjust its strength. 

I honestly think this is the best route for pre washing. blindly caking the car in a highly alkaline snow foam every week just isn't necessary. Instead I like to access the level of dirt on the car, for example (mostly due to lockdown) my car may barely move but have some surface dirt etc. for this a straight neutral foam will work fine, but if I've done a bunch of miles and the car is caked then yes you'll want to up the ante a bit. 

I've found dropping in 10 - 20ml of Koch GS into the snow foam lance doesn't drastically affect the PH value but add the necessary cleaning power to strip away salt, traffic film and dirt. 

it will forever be a balancing act between preserving paint protection and minimizing swirling through pre washing. 

So my conclusion on all of this is having the freedom to adjust and play around with your strength of pre wash is far superior to just sticking with one strength of product. 

Also using GSF means I only need to buy one product for both shampoo & Snow foam with the addition of Koch Green star (which also works as an APC!)

Just my 2 cents!


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## Carscope

Tried an interesting test today, used reset as a snow foam. Car was pretty dirty, it cleansed better then car pro lift 


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## sharrkey

Eturty said:


> Tried an interesting test today, used reset as a snow foam. Car was pretty dirty, it cleansed better then car pro lift
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What ratio did you use in the foam bottle, hate wasting reset lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## JU5T1N

I have tried 2 ph neutral snow foams with good cleaning power.

Autoglanz piste, has light cleaning power , rinses easily and has no effect on lsps.

theres a vid here demonstrating the cleaning power 




another one is #LABOCOSMETICA #NEVE
Its ph neutral but comes close to bh autofoam in cleaning power, it has a very long dwell time and can even dry on and still rinse away cleanly, it did effect the lsps I was using trim reaper got knocked back a bit and so did hydrophobe in comparison Autoglanz piste had 0 effect on them so the extra cleaning power comes at a cost to lsps.


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## atbalfour

JU5T1N said:


> I have tried 2 ph neutral snow foams with good cleaning power.
> 
> Autoglanz piste, has light cleaning power , rinses easily and has no effect on lsps.
> 
> theres a vid here demonstrating the cleaning power Snow Foam Test : AutoGlanz Piste - YouTube
> 
> another one is #LABOCOSMETICA #NEVE
> Its ph neutral but comes close to bh autofoam in cleaning power, it has a very long dwell time and can even dry on and still rinse away cleanly, it did effect the lsps I was using trim reaper got knocked back a bit and so did hydrophobe in comparison Autoglanz piste had 0 effect on them so the extra cleaning power comes at a cost to lsps.


Love Labocosmetica stuff but Neve even at it's upper concentration is in no way comparable to BH Autofoam. Smells fantastic, I enjoy using it if there's just dust on the car but it has very very disappointing cleaning ability (even compared to other neutral foams). You must be using some extremely fragile LSPs if Neve is degrading them... even Polish Angel stuff / BSD hold up perfectly fine against it. I found it to rinse away 'ok' but I'm adamant that it and their Semper shampoo leave some form of surfactant behind. I've found myself washing with Reset immediately after Semper to restore the beading which was disappointing given the claims. Whether that was due to residual surfactants or it just didn't clean as well as Reset, I don't know.

To be honest you need a test panel OR a super hydrophobic (coated but untopped) car with stable water behaviour and being driven very little to properly compare these small margins. KKD Blizzard is twice the product Neve is.


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## JU5T1N

I might get different results because I use a ik foamer 12 and use warm water.
I used both piste and Neve at 1:20 on the panel and thought Neve cleaned a bit better and thought both cleaned well for a ph neutral foam, no test just subjective impression.


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## Carscope

Tried blizzard a couple of times, does probably the best cleaning within the ‘neutral’ cleaners I’ve used. 

However I still think GSF + green star is the one 

This weekend I’ll do a side by side of them both with PH levels. 


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## atbalfour

Eturty said:


> Tried blizzard a couple of times, does probably the best cleaning within the 'neutral' cleaners I've used.
> 
> However I still think GSF + green star is the one
> 
> This weekend I'll do a side by side of them both with PH levels.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Glad you like, everyone I've recommended it to has found similar so it's always good to have findings validated given you've tried an even wider range of foams than I!

Neve is still lovely to use and fine to remove mild dirt, dust etc it smells incredible.. If there's ever a product that you'd add green star to its it, because its otherwise amazing!!

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## Carscope

atbalfour said:


> Glad you like, everyone I've recommended it to has found similar so it's always good to have findings validated given you've tried an even wider range of foams than I!
> 
> Neve is still lovely to use and fine to remove mild dirt, dust etc it smells incredible.. If there's ever a product that you'd add green star to its it, because its otherwise amazing!!
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


I'll pick up a bottle next time for sure.

It's going to sound snobby but I do wish the bottling labelling was a bit better on the KKD, especially when the entire detailing industry is built around bottling and brand image. Otherwise it's a fantastic product!

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## Kenan

What type of foam do you get from the GSF?

Iv been adding green Star to other snow foams and it's improved the cleaning. 

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## Carscope

Kenan said:


> What type of foam do you get from the GSF?
> 
> Iv been adding green Star to other snow foams and it's improved the cleaning.
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk


Depends on dilution, there recommendation is 20ml but I use 80

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## AD18

@Eturty Do you think the new Gyeon Foam formula could be what we're all looking for and one you'll get round to testing? They say it has more cleaning power but since its a coating manufacturer it should be safe too. Sounds like it could be promising...


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## Carscope

AD18 said:


> @Eturty Do you think the new Gyeon Foam formula could be what we're all looking for and one you'll get round to testing? They say it has more cleaning power but since its a coating manufacturer it should be safe too. Sounds like it could be promising...


Haven't tried the new formula yet mate, I will once its available I'm sure.


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