# Help with spraying Renault Pearl Black



## K600RYS

Ok so i bought a phase 1 clio sport 172 as a project/runabout for winter, now i wasnt informed before meeting for the car that the front wing, bonnet and edge of front bumper were so badly scraped, now i'm keen to practice some bodywork spraying so whats the good advice of DW guru's ?

Am i just aswell blending with aerosols? I do have a compressor and spray gun available, thanks in advance.


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## craigeh123

Id say if you e never done it i wouldn't attempt an area that large


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## cossierick

craigeh123 said:


> Id say if you e never done it i wouldn't attempt an area that large


seconded.


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## K600RYS

Its an old clio 172, i mainly purchased it as a project so why not? I've got an air compressor, spray gun, access to a large clean area, so what advice can i have please? I've started rubbing it down with 180 grit, cheers.


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## mr paint

I would 180g the scratches down to metal or plastic as clio ...feather surrounding with 320g 

clean and degrease panels 

(epoxy or etch prime bare metal) apply plastic primer to plastic parts.. prime the areas with black 2k primer ..allow to cure ..

block with 320g repairs 
block with 600-800g whole blend panel 

clean and degrease panels 

apply base coat 
apply base and blend into adjacent panels 

apply 2-3 coats of 2k clear @proper mix 

all should be done with a panel temp of around 20degrees 
water trap on air line 
decent air flow 


You will need 

180 320 600 800 2000 grit sand paper /discs
plastic primer 
2k primer 
base coat 1ltr 
clear 2.5 

masking paper 
masking tape 
and more 


Hope this helps 

Tommy


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## K600RYS

Thats brilliant buddy thanks!


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## Graeme1

As above but 500 after the 320 will be fine. No real need block as there isn't any filler repairs. 

Also I personally would 1000 or 2000 or grey scotch the area for blending. 

Also can't really tell how deep the scratches are but if there light scratches then you may not need to 2k prime. Lighter ones can be 500 down and and parts rubbed through can be given a couple of coats of a 1k rub through primer. Most can be painted straight over but I like to 1000 it done to leaving it a bit smoother.


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## craigeh123

Ah if its a project and you've got a spray gun and a good area to do it go for it . Just follow what the paint guys say and you should be all right .


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## craigeh123

I definately wouldn't aerosol it


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## steveo3002

mr paint said:


> I would 180g the scratches down to metal or plastic as clio ...feather surrounding with 320g
> 
> clean and degrease panels
> 
> (epoxy or etch prime bare metal) apply plastic primer to plastic parts.. prime the areas with black 2k primer ..allow to cure ..
> 
> block with 320g repairs
> block with 600-800g whole blend panel
> 
> clean and degrease panels
> 
> apply base coat
> apply base and blend into adjacent panels
> 
> apply 2-3 coats of 2k clear @proper mix
> 
> all should be done with a panel temp of around 20degrees
> water trap on air line
> decent air flow
> 
> You will need
> 
> 180 320 600 800 2000 grit sand paper /discs
> plastic primer
> 2k primer
> base coat 1ltr
> clear 2.5
> 
> masking paper
> masking tape
> and more
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> Tommy


agree with this


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## K600RYS

This is how it started to look took the deep bonnet scratches down to primer, requiring some form of filler for little deep sections, any advice for deep scratches? Cheers


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## craigeh123

You'll want some stuff like dolphin glaze , keep the pics coming


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## K600RYS

And my little work area for sanding


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## K600RYS

Excuse all the white sanding marks also i'm waiting for my panel wipe to come home!


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## Paintguy

It would be much better sand the scratches out rather than fill them. No chance of the filler shrinking if there's isn't any there 

None of them look particularly deep to be honest (in paintshop terms). It's a pity you don't have a sander as some 240 grit would have had them out in minutes.

When you get to it, I'd strongly suggest you take the bonnet off and hang it vertically to spray if at all possible. You will save yourself no end of flatting and polishing afterwards. You're painting area looks pretty clean by some standards, but trust me on this, any dust that is around will be attracted like a magnet to a black bonnet!! :lol:


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## K600RYS

Thanks, really appreciate the comments, i'll take all advice on board and i'm confident i will do a half decent job!


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## mr paint

Also you will need some heat in there for painting or it will all end up on the floor 


BEEN THERE :thumb:

you would realy benefit from a da sander tho would be done within 10 mins 


as said above you don't want to fill a scratch as in the sun it may re-appear 

sand back to bare metal/plastic if needed 

Tommy


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## mr paint

Also where you located?


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## K600RYS

I have a dual action polisher with removable backing plate, would i be able to get sanding discs at a reasonable price? I'm in the highlands!


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## mr paint

Pity mate if you were closer I could have done a demo !

da polisher will do the same with Velcro backing plate and discs 

Tommy


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## JMorty

Quite interested to see what happens with this. Good luck man! :thumb:


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## craigeh123

Nice space you've got to do it in that's for sure


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## K600RYS

Thanks! I'm planning taking friday off work to continue more rubbing down! Hopefully get some primer layed on friday then paint on saturday, cheers!


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## craigeh123

Look forward to getting pics have to say as you've got the space id be tempted to paint the whole car


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## jamie_s

Id definitely recommend using 2k primer, if I were you id buy an air powered palm da. You don't need an expensive one. I bought a bergen one off ebay for 36 delivered brand new and its pretty much the same as the more expensive ones.


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## craigeh123

Just remember 2k is seriously poisonous


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## Paintguy

jamie_s said:


> Id definitely recommend using 2k primer, if I were you id buy an air powered palm da. You don't need an expensive one. I bought a bergen one off ebay for 36 delivered brand new and its pretty much the same as the more expensive ones.


I have one of those as a back up and it compares pretty well to my two Mirka ones. Much noisier as it doesn't have an exhaust silencer, but ear plugs are cheap 

I still have an issue with people calling them DA's when really they are just random orbit machines, but that's just me being fussy


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## Andyb0127

craigeh123 said:


> Just remember 2k is seriously poisonous


exactly this. Recommending 2k primer/laquers to people, who don't understand how dangerous it can actually be to there health without correct ventilation, and airfed mask. That and the fact it doesn't just affect you, it will also affect anyone or anything in the surrounding area.

Which is why i never recommend using 2k to complete novices.


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## K600RYS

Once again appreciate all the comments! Yeah i will admit i am still slightly tempted to get it indoors for a full respray saying as the tax expires in december anyway! Any reccomendations if i did go for a full respray? As i'd be looking to change the colour obviously.


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## craigeh123

Pick a colour you couldn't get the car in , your lucky your starting with black at least you can get away with the engine bay !


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## Shinyvec

I have done some paintwork to my Saphire Black Vectra C but only used rattle cans, but got really good results with hardly any Orange Peel and a good shiny gloss. I would deffo say have a go and if the finish isnt what you wanted just flat it back and either repaint or get the Machine Polisher out :buffer: and see what you can do. I would be excited about having a go on something as big as your project and then feel proud once I got the look and finish I was after, stand back and say " I did that":thumb:


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## K600RYS

Shinyvec said:


> I have done some paintwork to my Saphire Black Vectra C but only used rattle cans, but got really good results with hardly any Orange Peel and a good shiny gloss. I would deffo say have a go and if the finish isnt what you wanted just flat it back and either repaint or get the Machine Polisher out :buffer: and see what you can do. I would be excited about having a go on something as big as your project and then feel proud once I got the look and finish I was after, stand back and say " I did that":thumb:


Thats pretty much why i bought it, its a learning curve for spraying and a good little toy to practice on! Guess i could 2k it in white with black engine bay, best place to get 2k primer & paint ? Thanks.


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## Shinyvec

I would go to a Auto Paint Factors for your needs, there is one in the next town to where I live and they are very good and great for advise. Dont forget that good prep shows in the final finish, sanding marks, filler marks etc, so a High Build Primer could be very handy aswell as a normal Primer, but I would use a rattle can for the High Build Primer as you might only need it in a few areas


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## JMorty

They do look great in off white. Have a go!


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## craigeh123

Bright white id use ford frozen white , an off white id use minis pepper white . Your local paint factors is prob best place to go . If your 2k it in a solid colour saves lacquering it


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## K600RYS

Ford frozen white with hardener can be bought on ebay for a surprisingly cheap £60 for 5 litres paint and 2 litres hardener! Just a question though, if i fancy doing a full respray will i need to use two different primer types for parts plastic then parts metal? Thanks.


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## K600RYS

Oh and here's a phase 1 in white


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## craigeh123

Yeah frozen white via ebay is cheap ! Ive looked at jawel paints , i read somewhere to avoid someone sure it was Fiona something on ebay as the paint was crap . Jawel do a kit with paint , hardener thinners primer etc etc . IM certain you just need to spot prime the areas you've gone right through and scotch the rest but someone that knows exactly what they are doing will be along to tell you for sure


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## Paintguy

K600RYS said:


> Just a question though, if i fancy doing a full respray will i need to use two different primer types for parts plastic then parts metal? Thanks.


Usual practice would be to use one primer, but put an adhesion aid on any bare plastic areas first. This is available in gun-applied form but for small areas rattle can version is fine.

If you do go for a 2K primer, and please be careful if you do, then ideally you'd add a flex agent to it for the plastic panels to help prevent spider cracks in the future, but you only have small areas that need priming so you may well be fine without it.

Personally I'd use a rattle can primer for such small areas though. Don't expect it to do too much and it'll be fine. Kent Ultrafill is a good one if you can source it, and is available in a range of colours, as is Sikkens spot primer.

I'd also recommend Jawel as a supplier, or I've used hugs paints a few times (listed as Nu-Agane on ebay).

Andy.


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## jamie_s

Paintguy said:


> I have one of those as a back up and it compares pretty well to my two Mirka ones. Much noisier as it doesn't have an exhaust silencer, but ear plugs are cheap
> 
> I still have an issue with people calling them DA's when really they are just random orbit machines, but that's just me being fussy


Yeah they are much louder, i thought they are da? Dual action ie rotate and oscillate?


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## K600RYS

Brilliant advice, i have an air fed mask and air sander on the santa wish list also!


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## JMorty

You could do a rare RenaultSport colour? Liquid yellow? Alien Green? FLAMER RED!!!!!!


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## K600RYS

Liquid yellows £60 a litre, doubt i would make that good a job of it either as i hear its tricky to paint!


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## craigeh123

You can buy pearl powders you mix with lacquer do some coats of that , the lacquer on top . We did a spray out of pearl green over my trophy yellow on a mirror cap and it looked awesome !


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## K600RYS

There you go i guess you learn something new everyday!


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## craigeh123

Ive got some of the pearl powder if you would like some , you use about a teaspoon per litre of mixed lacquer/binder


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## mr paint

Just to add you will never be able to blend these pearls if you need to do repairs in the future.

Go with frozen white in direct gloss ! :thumb:


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## Paintguy

mr paint said:


> Just to add you will never be able to blend these pearls if you need to do repairs in the future.


x2

Plus you have to be _very_ careful with pearls over white. Too dark a flake and it'll look like you have contamination speckles all over it. Even a lighter coloured flake can just make it look dirty / faded from a distance.

Don't let me put you off if you really want to go this way, but test it out on a decent sized area first, at least wing or door sized. With the high blue content in Frozen White I'd suggest trying out a light blue flake first, if you really want to go that way.


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## craigeh123

This stuff is a fine powder looks like a bag of talc


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## K600RYS

Once again i appreciate all comments, i'm going to see how spraying this bonnet and bumper pearl black pays off, if its not a great finished product i will inevitably go for ford frozen white i think!


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## jamie_s

If you're just using 2k at home ie not very often, I wouldn't bother with an air fed mask its not necessary, Iv'e heard plenty of horror stories on the internet but never heard anyone I know say they've had any issues. My dad was a painter for 20 years using 2k for a lot of it and never used an air fed mask, the same goes with his colleagues . I use a 3m 2k mask which work fine.
I'd suggest buying one of those along with full body paper overalls (which will also help with dust in the paint)


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## jamie_s

My z4m rear quarter I painted in my shed :lol:



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## craigeh123

You can get a hardener without isocyanate in it but its not supposed to cure that fast


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## mr paint

pearls of any type will change the base colour either in a binder or clear coat application..

aston martin morning frost is like this

1 coat slight shimmer of blue green 
2 coats more blue less green 
3 coats panel starts turning yellow with ott colour flip

pearls are not for a first off painter

as its a powder you struggle to even weigh it to re-make same mix

do it black and put a red xirralic on top then clear

makes this





Tommy


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## craigeh123

Tommy that's stunning ! What's a xiralic then ?


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## Paintguy

Expensive! That's what it is :lol:

Regular metallic flakes are made of aluminium, mica flakes (usually wrongly called pearl / pearlescent) are made from coloured glass, Xirallic (one of many spellings!) is an aluminium oxide crystal, often coated with other metal oxides to produce the desired refraction colour.

Properties are (put simply) a much more dramatic colour change, or flake pop as it's known here, when under strong lighting, particularly bright sunlight.

It is significantly more expensive than other components in the paint mix, and care has to be take when quoting for a job to take this into consideration.


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## craigeh123

That's what i like about pearl powders and flakes , nice and cheap . When i bought flake to do my wheels it cost about 10 quid and didn't even use a quarter of the bag ! 

There's a site called paint with pearl that do some really great products , you could create some really dramatic paint jobs fir not a lot of money


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## Paintguy

Have a look around the ALSA corp site if you want to see some stunning paint and wrap effects.


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## craigeh123

Yeah I've been on there before lol , and specialist paints . Ive always wanted to learn to paint but for some stupid reason became a mechanic instead . Im now an mot tester , i plan to get a compressor and some spray guns for in the garage but i cant use 2k at home as my garage is attached to my house and im in a very built up area


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## K600RYS

Stripped!


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## K600RYS

The bumper is also now de-foglamped for the 'hardened' look haha


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## craigeh123

K600RYS said:


> The bumper is also now de-foglamped for the 'hardened' look haha


How long until paint ?


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## K600RYS

Definetely get some primer and paint layed on sunday!


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## craigeh123

Sweeeet !


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## JMorty

How did it go man?!?


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## craigeh123

Yeah any updates ?


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## K600RYS

Hi folks sorry for the late reply! All has gone to plan i blended in the paint that needed done, just wanted to ask, when i put the clear coat on it looks a bit like white on top like a creamy layer? Looks like it will just require 2000 grit wet then a polish? Will update with pictures tomorrow!


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## mr paint

if its went white its more likely to be to cold when painted 

did you use 2k ?


Tommy


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## craigeh123

Out of interest tommy will that polish or is it a repaint job when that happens ?


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## mr paint

usually a full repaint and blend adjacent panels :thumb:

Tommy


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## craigeh123

mr paint said:


> usually a full repaint and blend adjacent panels :thumb:
> 
> Tommy


Bad times


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## K600RYS

It's a bit odd as clear was added the same time as the area beside the mirror but it never went cloudy, like i say this was a good practice experience still looks loads better! Pics to follow i keep forgetting my camera!


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## mr paint

all It really takes is a cold draught tbh 


Best thing I would recommend is night before put a couple of oil heaters inside ...and throw a cover over the car 


Or a space heater would work better !


you will see your paint dries much better and your finish will flow out better 

also your paint should be kept at room temp @ 20deg is for best results 

What clear did you use ?


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## Andyb0127

Definalty sounds like moisture in the clear. Only other thing I've seen turn laquer white is it being over applied to much in one go.

As said temperature should be 20-22 degrees, other wise you do run the risk of running into problems. There alot to take into consideration before just spraying something, but im sure you will learn as you go, and there's loads of experienced sprayers on here that can help you.


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## jamie_s

Was 2k used? I don't recall ever getting milky clear in 2k. Rattle cans yes but not 2k I don't think? I've sprayed in all conditions :lol:


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## toddy23

Only seen clear go cloudy once and that was like already said to much clear in one go,also seen a bonnet have white dots when a mate painted something and put it outside and the frost got it,but that disappeared with the use of a heat gun gently warming the white spots up,it does help to have a bit of heat in a garage this time of year,I've stopped doing jobs at home over Christmas only because I'm getting my drive started soon but I always get the car ready for paint,all cleaned up to go,then I put my heaters on go in the house for 1/2 hour to get garage warm then go in and paint cos if I didn't it would probs run off lol


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## K600RYS

Terrible pictures but massive improvement!


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## K600RYS

Phase1 with my trophy


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## mr paint

jamie_s said:


> Was 2k used? I don't recall ever getting milky clear in 2k. Rattle cans yes but not 2k I don't think? I've sprayed in all conditions :lol:


2K dose mate AHEM been there lol done a inlet mani for a show car was at the house ...sun was out I thought stuff it ... painted it all went on like glass and flowed out well

let dry as the sun was going down and wamo... underside was milky due to low heat or no heat ..

buy yes your correct cans will be problematic from day 1:thumb:


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## K600RYS

I must confess, it was a pre mixed aerosol, upol primer and tetrosyl laquer, i used heat on the wing and it made a huge difference, when summer comes and i get the facility in place i may go for a full respray in white and ofcourse 2k 

But for £15 it looks the business


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## craigeh123

Looks a lit better than it did


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## Paintguy

You can't argue with that for £15 :thumb:


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## K600RYS

Quick iphone snaps


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## craigeh123

That was with aerosols ?


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## Arienol

K600RYS said:


> Quick iphone snaps


Nice work dude. Got any close-ups of the area?

Ben


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