# My Conclusion on The Wax Test Results



## Dave KG

The wax test is complete, the results on the whole are in so I thought it time to sit down and compose my thoughts into a thread to give my own personal opinions and take on the results that have surfaced from the test. 

For me, the biggest take home message has to be the inconsistency in the results. Now this doesn't point to a poor test, but rather for me points to a fact that many have said all along: you simply cannot tell which wax is which on looks alone, on a well prepped car. Money will categorically not buy you a better finish IMHO and it is my feeling that the test results prove this conclusively. This was obvious to me when prepping the cars in the garage - the efforts going into the machine finish transformed the look of the cars, but adding the wax delivered nothing tenable extra to the looks - regardless of whether it was Collinite or Royale!

So what of the resuts - well Swissvax Best Of Show takes the top spot, and points wise by a notable margin so one could argue that this did offer something the others didn't... But then only 11 of those attending could really see a difference, and the inconsitencies of the data highlight that nothing more was really at play other than what people themselves were seeing in their own eyes - I'd sooner argue that the results are more an example of the nuance added by waxes, if any, being simply in the eye of the beholder and psychology playing a bigger effect than actual real world looks.

I'd argue that looks are largely irrelevant from waxes - regardless of any marketing bumf that you may read, this test for me has conclusively proved (IMHO of course) that waxes will not add to the look of a well prepped machine finish, and paying large sums of money to try and get that little bit extra is, in terms of looks, a waste of money. Of course, this is just my opinion...

So if looks are irrelevant, what is relevant? Well, this is where the actual true job of an LSP comes in. Forget the looks, achieve them by polishing. Its *protection* that an LSP is deigned to provide. No an interesting conclusion can certainly be drawn here... The last placed wax, Raceglaze 55. Taking the results of the test the wrong way, ie that the scores actually mean anything at all, one could conclude that this is the poorest wax there. Is it? IMHO - no. Its one of the best! Contradicting my own test? Nope! Assuming the results show that looks are irrelevant as discussed above, we can discount this from consideration. Now examining protection offered, Raceglaze 55 is a wax which I personally find to be highly durable, along with Collinite 915, and for this reason, it will fall high on my list of products to recommend. In the market for a wax and want to spend circa £50, and I would venture to say that its the best in that price range based in its ability to last...

Collinite 915 will last just as well, so why not just save £30 and use that instead? Well, now we enter the realms of psychology. There is a special feeling to spending a little more on a wax, it has to be said and from this perspective this is where RG55 for example scores very well. It doesn't take the **** money wise, but offers those after something a little more special and limited production something a little more boutique - but also, something which performs well and lasts well. 

And this brings us neatly onto Royale. In the test, and in my opinion again, it showed itself looks wise to be nothing special! The same for the water behaviour, 915 if anything beaded tighter and sheeted faster. No I have no doubt that Royale is durable, so on that basis I could recommend it - but I couldn't really given its price... But wait, you're thinking! What about those wanting to spend more for something special? Well - there's spending more, and there's craziness... Consider spending £20,000 on a well specced Ford Mondeo - double that, and you can get a well specced Merc E Class. Both cars essentially do the same job, the Merc though makes you _feel special._ Collinite costs £20, Raceglaze 55 around £60 - its the same kind of idea. But Royale costs £8000, or in terms of the cars above, £8,000,000!! No car costs that and has that big a price rise over another car and for simple reason - its ludicrous! If I personally found Royale to offer something really tenable over other LSPs I would happily say, yes - worth extra. But its not in my opinion anything special, yet it comes with a crazy price tag. RG55, Dodo Supernatural, Swissvax Best of Show - they all offer the "special" feeling, perform well, but they dont take the mick. And to me, IMHO, considering the raw ingredients, waxes in the four figure region are simply taking the mick. I stress this is my personal opinion. 

So what of good old Autoglym - another wax I find to be fairly durable and on the whole liked by those attending the meet. Good beading and sheeting, looked the same as Royale to me and indeed many others attending... what it doesn't have is a boutique name. Good! Because that means I can get a quality and effective product without paying funny money! Think AG isn't god enough compared to boutique brands? If so, look at the test - it holds its head high next to the others and is deserving of success in the same way as the rather more fashionable Dodo Juice waxes are for example.

Lastly - the sealent... reading Zaino's marketing, you could think that this would be outperforming everything. In practice though, looks wise it was pretty much the same as the waxes, offering only a little extra slickness extra and this will have effected the beading and sheeting shown (adverseley and favourably respectively). Where is scores is ease of use in maintenance - Z8 being silly easy to use and for those looking for ease of use, its a great system. And very durable too!

So what can I really conclude? Well, for me, the main take home message is this: money will not buy results in the wax world. Prep is the key to any finish, and durability is not directly related to price and durability is the main important factor of the LSP. The inconsistencies in the looks results clearly highlight to me that waxes just do not offer anything to the final look on a well prepped car - in my opinion at least...

Final words... *They all exhibited a glossy nuance*


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## Gandi

Nice one Dave, well done to you and all involved


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## MrP

thanks for the write up dave, however, if it was your money you were spending on those wax's tested, which would your money be spent on?

cheers


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## Dave KG

MrP said:


> thanks for the write up dave, however, if it was your money you were spending on those wax's tested, which would your money be spent on?
> 
> cheers


Collinite 915, and some RG 55 for special occasions.

And Z2 when I want a sealent.


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## Miglior

great great post mate. i know all this is your own opinion, but its gospel to me!


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## Tyrrell

Brilliant mate, i 100% agree with all you've said !! 

You should get a medal for your services and dedication to DW


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## Gandi

JPC said:


> great great post mate. i know all this is your own opinion, but its gospel to me!


I also listen to alot of what Dave says


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## cheechy

Dave KG said:


> *They all exhibited a glossy nuance*


I wouldn't have believed any of the output from the tests without your catchphrase Dave :thumb:

Good piece of work!


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## Alan W

Conclusions much as I expected Dave .............. appearance is ALL in the preparation and the choice of LSP comes down to three things, namely cost, durability and ease of use. 



Dave KG said:


> Final words... *They all exhibited a glossy nuance*


However, I can't let you get away with the above! If the LSP's *add nothing* to the finish the glossy nuance must have come from the prep and not the LSP? 

Alan W


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## PJS

Oh dear Alan, I fear you may have


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## Coops

Great work. Congrats to all involved :thumb:

The final paragraph really sums everything up:



Dave KG said:


> *Prep is the key to any finish, and durability is not directly related to price and durability is the main important factor of the LSP. *


I _only_ have AG HD Wax, 476s and CG XXX in my wax collection and had already learnt (before the test) that on my cars the difference was/is negligible. Looks like to get any more improvement I'll have to up my game on the prep side :lol:

Top work again - well done all.


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## Tyrrell

I think it was a joke, meaning they all added precious little equally. !! which is as we all saw true.


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## Alan W

PJS said:


> Oh dear Alan, I fear you may have


Only pulling Dave's leg with that one! I started this the other night!

Alan W


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## ZedFour

I'm gutted I missed this day but, I can draw the conclusion that there will be 7 VERY happy new Corsa owners after it...


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## SpiderSC

great stuff again Dave - i'm defo enlightened by your test results and from seeing it first hand on Sunday!

From here on i will continue to work hard on the prep knowing that followed by a coat or two of Collinite 915 the car will look a million dollars and i will not waste anymore money on more expensive waxes that promise but dont deliver anything extra!

Cheers, Simon


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## Shug

To use your ford/merc analogy, the man on the street can see a distinct difference between the two, whereas even those in the know can't really tell wax apart.
So it really is all down to psychology.
I could tell you I used royale instead of collinite, but I couldnt say I drive a merc if I only had a ford.
So, in summary, buy cheap wax and lie!


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## Epoch

Alan W said:


> Conclusions much as I expected Dave .............. appearance is ALL in the preparation and the choice of LSP comes down to three things, namely cost, durability and ease of use.
> 
> However, I can't let you get away with the above! If the LSP's *add nothing* to the finish the glossy nuance must have come from the prep and not the LSP?
> 
> Alan W





PJS said:


> Oh dear Alan, I fear you may have


Sort of...and also...

I still believe if wallet over talent is in evidence Megs three step used on a normal unprepped car wouldn't look as good as HD Cleanse and Zym0l Concours say. The jury may still be out on my talent or ability BUT that's one of the key features of this.

Would an attractive fit model (picking any of the current crop) look better in ASDA makeup/clothes or some expensive make-up/clothes.

I feel far better (and so assume look much better) wearing my expensive suit as that fits me (and my beer belly) much better (the cut is much better etc) than my generic off the peg day in day out suits. Would the same thing make as much difference on a less fat handsome chap, probably marginal or at least less than the effect on me.

The icing, so to speak, has a far greater shortfall to cover on a minger.

While you could easily say balls to all of the above, I still think the big wax test took 7 identical top models and compaired the look of there ass's in jeans from ASDA, Next, Levi, Hugo Boss etc etc and the conclusions are if you have a great ass you have a great ass!

Not to dismiss the exercise, I loved the idea and the execution, I wish i could have gone, I'm just playing a little 

So my conslusion is i should really diet, eat healthily and exercise rather than buying nice suits!


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## SiGainey

Dave KG said:


> And this brings us neatly onto Royale. In the test, and in my opinion again, it showed itself looks wise to be nothing special! The same for the water behaviour, 915 if anything beaded tighter and sheeted faster. No I have no doubt that Royale is durable, so on that basis I could recommend it - but I couldn't really given its price... But wait, you're thinking! What about those wanting to spend more for something special? Well - there's spending more, and there's craziness... Consider spending £20,000 on a well specced Ford Mondeo - double that, and you can get a well specced Merc E Class.


However, IMHO, you get a better driving experience from an E Class over a mondeo. From my understanding of the test, there was little difference between any of the waxes, so are you getting anything special?


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## SiGainey

How about the next test is on some cars that have not been properly prepared? Ie wash, clay then a layer of wax?


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## Alan W

I (sort of ) agree Jon! :lol:

See here: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=987189&postcount=13

Alan W


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## PJS

Epoch said:


> Sort of...and also...
> 
> I still believe if wallet over talent is in evidence Megs three step used on a normal unprepped car wouldn't look as good as HD Cleanse and Zym0l Concours say. The jury may still be out on my talent or ability BUT that's one of the key features of this.
> 
> Would an attractive fit model (picking any of the current crop) look better in ASDA makeup/clothes or some expensive make-up/clothes.
> 
> I feel far better (and so assume look much better) wearing my expensive suit as that fits me (and my beer belly) much better (the cut is much better etc) than my generic off the peg day in day out suits. Would the same thing make as much difference on a less fat handsome chap, probably marginal or at least less than the effect on me.
> 
> The icing, so to speak, has a far greater shortfall to cover on a minger.
> 
> While you could easily say balls to all of the above, I still think the big wax test took 7 identical top models and compaired the look of there ass's in jeans from ASDA, Next, Levi, Hugo Boss etc etc and the conclusions are if you have a great ass you have a great ass!
> 
> Not to dismiss the exercise, I loved the idea and the execution, I wish i could have gone, I'm just playing a little
> 
> So my conslusion is i should really diet, eat healthily and exercise rather than buying nice suits!


Christ! You're all over the shop there.
Icing? Jeans? Arses? Beer bellies? Whistle and flutes? Slap?
You been drinking whilst taking the medication again?
You know what happened last time you did that - you were bog-ridden for an hour!
I hope and pray you're weren't in there, writing that up at the time!!


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## Epoch

PJS said:


> Christ! You're all over the shop there.
> Icing? Jeans? Arses? Beer bellies? Whistle and flutes? Slap?
> You been drinking whilst taking the medication again?
> You know what happened last time you did that - you were bog-ridden for an hour!
> I hope and pray you're weren't in there, writing that up at the time!!


Welcome to my head


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## PJS

No thanks, you can keep it - I've my own to keep me well and truly occupied.


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## dominic84

> Sort of...and also...
> 
> I still believe if wallet over talent is in evidence Megs three step used on a normal unprepped car wouldn't look as good as HD Cleanse and Zym0l Concours say. The jury may still be out on my talent or ability BUT that's one of the key features of this.
> 
> Would an attractive fit model (picking any of the current crop) look better in ASDA makeup/clothes or some expensive make-up/clothes.
> 
> I feel far better (and so assume look much better) wearing my expensive suit as that fits me (and my beer belly) much better (the cut is much better etc) than my generic off the peg day in day out suits. Would the same thing make as much difference on a less fat handsome chap, probably marginal or at least less than the effect on me.
> 
> The icing, so to speak, has a far greater shortfall to cover on a minger.
> 
> While you could easily say balls to all of the above, I still think the big wax test took 7 identical top models and compaired the look of there ass's in jeans from ASDA, Next, Levi, Hugo Boss etc etc and the conclusions are if you have a great ass you have a great ass!
> 
> Not to dismiss the exercise, I loved the idea and the execution, I wish i could have gone, I'm just playing a little
> 
> So my conslusion is i should really diet, eat healthily and exercise rather than buying nice suits!


I agree, in fact I pointed this out a couple times a while back however I used the analogy of waxing a bathroom mirror but I prefer yours 

I think it would be interesting to see cars that are clayed and then polished using the manufacturers prep products (where possible) by hand i.e. HD Cleanse then Z Wax, Lime Prime then Dodo Wax, SRP then.. you get the picture.

I personally think as you do that the differences would be far greater because I can see a big difference between for example EGP and Polycharged EGP on 'normal' paintwork.

You could of course argue that paintwork should be defect free prior to wax application, but I'm pretty sure that the majority of wax applications are on 'normal' paintwork that has simply been clayed and hand polished.

Maybe following on from Dave's excellent and thorough testing of one end of the spectrum we should try and organise a test of the other.


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## JJ_

Sounds like the truth to me Dave another good test and round up. Well done


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## L200 Steve

Epoch said:


> Sort of...and also...
> 
> I still believe if wallet over talent is in evidence Megs three step used on a normal unprepped car wouldn't look as good as HD Cleanse and Zym0l Concours say. The jury may still be out on my talent or ability BUT that's one of the key features of this.
> 
> Would an attractive fit model (picking any of the current crop) look better in ASDA makeup/clothes or some expensive make-up/clothes.
> 
> I feel far better (and so assume look much better) wearing my expensive suit as that fits me (and my beer belly) much better (the cut is much better etc) than my generic off the peg day in day out suits. Would the same thing make as much difference on a less fat handsome chap, probably marginal or at least less than the effect on me.
> 
> The icing, so to speak, has a far greater shortfall to cover on a minger.
> 
> While you could easily say balls to all of the above, I still think the big wax test took 7 identical top models and compaired the look of there ass's in jeans from ASDA, Next, Levi, Hugo Boss etc etc and the conclusions are if you have a great ass you have a great ass!
> 
> Not to dismiss the exercise, I loved the idea and the execution, I wish i could have gone, I'm just playing a little
> 
> So my conslusion is i should really diet, eat healthily and exercise rather than buying nice suits!


Do you think that Dave's polishing was done to try and 'help' the waxes tested look as good as they could?

Do you think that Dave tried to help too much, and that his 'uber polishing' actually detracted from the end result?

Do you think think that the next great wax test should be done (like others above have mentioned) on an unprepped surface?

A product that can make your motor look drop dead gorgeous with the minimum of effort, and without removing a % of clearcoat? Now there would be a test:thumb:


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## Tiauguinho

I believe that there won't be any agreement over this...

And I'm happy about that


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## Bigpikle

Epoch said:


> Welcome to my head


your head sounds fun 

seriously though, MY reaction was immediately that the car with BoS stood out from the crowd instantly. I was first there, first to view the cars, alone, and had no idea what products were on the test, let alone what was on each car. I was surprised by what I saw and mentioned to you Dave, and Bryan and then others, what I thought was a standout 'look' on that car. TBH, I was petrified that it was Turtle Wax Black Colour Magic, as I pinned my colours so firmly to the mast that I stood to be humbled if it turned out to be a cheapo product. The same car excelled in the water test to all that were there, so I was largely relieved when it turned out to be a premium product, and I could go home feeling that there IS A VALUE in THAT premium product IMHO 

I see your point about 'imagined' differences but I also found that ALL the other cars were pretty much impossible to tell apart, and my voting showed that. Only 1 car stood out to me and I honestly feel that in my eyes that product added to the look significantly. Is it worth £120 for that very slight difference? Maybe, maybe not....


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## projibber

I agree, I think it would be interesting to see the type or finishes acheivable by hand over a shorter timescale - ie. wash, clay, polish and wax in an afternoon maybe..


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## SpiderSC

Bigpikle said:


> your head sounds fun
> 
> seriously though, MY reaction was immediately that the car with BoS stood out from the crowd instantly. I was first there, first to view the cars, alone, and had no idea what products were on the test, let alone what was on each car. I was surprised by what I saw and mentioned to you Dave, and Bryan and then others, what I thought was a standout 'look' on that car. TBH, I was petrified that it was Turtle Wax Black Colour Magic, as I pinned my colours so firmly to the mast that I stood to be humbled if it turned out to be a cheapo product. The same car excelled in the water test to all that were there, so I was largely relieved when it turned out to be a premium product, and I could go home feeling that there IS A VALUE in THAT premium product IMHO
> 
> I see your point about 'imagined' differences but I also found that ALL the other cars were pretty much impossible to tell apart, and my voting showed that. Only 1 car stood out to me and I honestly feel that in my eyes that product added to the look significantly. Is it worth £120 for that very slight difference? Maybe, maybe not....


I cannot speak for earlier in the day when you viewed the cars, but much later, about 4 o'clock onwards, and i can't give you reasons why but can speculate that maybe with curing time perhaps, the Collinite 915 and BOS looked identical, and in the water beading and sheeting tests were pretty much identical too.

Three cars were parked next to eachother - one prepped with Collinite 915, one with BOS and one with Royale - and we agreed there was no noticable difference between the Collinite 915 and the BOS, yet the Royale seemed to lack something that the other two had.

I guess we all see things slightly differently, but i saw enough to know there is no point in me spending £120 on the BOS when the Collinite 915 looks identical and performed identically and it costs just £20 - thats a massive saving of a £100. And i have been loyal to SV waxes for the last couple of years, i guess i have been dragged into the 'you only get what you spend' mindset, but not any longer. When i finish my current SV i'm changing to Collinite 015!

I'm totally sold on the all in the prep and Collinite 915 going forward!


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## Finerdetails

L200 Steve said:


> Do you think that Dave's polishing was done to try and 'help' the waxes tested look as good as they could?
> 
> Do you think that Dave tried to help too much, and that his 'uber polishing' actually detracted from the end result?
> 
> Do you think think that the next great wax test should be done (like others above have mentioned) on an unprepped surface?
> 
> A product that can make your motor look drop dead gorgeous with the minimum of effort, and without removing a % of clearcoat? Now there would be a test:thumb:


welcome to the horsebox, no claying, no machining, just a AIO with the waxes dropped straight on top of


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## Epoch

L200 Steve said:


> Do you think that Dave's polishing was done to try and 'help' the waxes tested look as good as they could?


I just remember that on ASTRA weekend using the gloss meter you managed to polish a surface to a higher measured gloss than was achievable after the application of Megs NXT 2.0 (a manmade product, so in theory optically clear).

The human eye can only see slight variations (I think the gloss meter guy said the human eye would only pick up differences of 8 units or more and the differences between all the polishes you tested was only that).

If the majority of products tested looked the same (including a sealant I hold in very high regard for it's optical clarity) the standard of polishing achieved was higher/or a least similar to the finish achieved after wax.

If the BOS added perceived depth or gloss, was this flake mask through less clarity? (ducks for cover) Could this nuance be a distraction from the true paint finish.

I need to get me some BOS i think



L200 Steve said:


> Do you think that Dave tried to help too much, and that his 'uber polishing' actually detracted from the end result?


Only possibly lessened the effect

If I paid £250+ for a machine polish (based on £25 per hour [a fair rate for a experienced detailer?, not wishing to cause offense to anyone just a basis figure] and 10 hours [again an estimate on 5 mins a section, three levels of polish and a car area of 40 sections] to have a car machine polished). I'd probably not be wanting to put anything less than absolute optical clear product on to preserve the finish.

If we have proved that visually £30 buys you a 'good enough for the human eye' product, that's really cool. If the buying of a product is purely to maintain a perfectly polished finish, then the test has proven that, so a huge result.



L200 Steve said:


> Do you think think that the next great wax test should be done (like others above have mentioned) on an unprepped surface?


I would agree BUT don't think it is possible. Iain FD's horse box is one I'd also like to see (This only has an AIO under the products, but probably more real world situation for many of the outside DW users).



L200 Steve said:


> A product that can make your motor look drop dead gorgeous with the minimum of effort, and without removing a % of clearcoat? Now there would be a test:thumb:


This would be useful for peope not wanting to buy the prep kit (very costly on it's own) or spend the time learning the art (very very time consuming)

On DW, with many users, the skill outways the current technology for LSP's- If clarity of finish is everything, prep is the key.

In the rest of the world, or the unskilled, the cleaner products and LSP's are the bobby dazzlers. Take a look at any car enthusiasts show/meets most weekends.

I think the test proves that, like in audio circles, the source is the most important improvement, which many campaigned for a long time. It's a shame the un-educated may never realise this.

I still think a human buy's for more than purpose though.


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## mattyb95

I think Dave should have done a double bluff on us, polished all the cars and then not put any of the waxes on and let everyone who went go "yeah number 2 looks better than 3, a glossy nuance" whilst chuckling to himself.

Nice work!


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## ianFRST

so then dave, if you saying that 915 is just as good / better than any other wax on a prepped surface, what are you doing with all your waxes? you have probably one of the biggest / if not THE biggest wax collection ive seen, so are they not kind of useless now? :lol:

funnily enough, when i bought vintage, i sold ALL my others, so all i have now is 476 / 915 and vintage.


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## Glider

I think the fact 45% of folks couldn't tell the difference says it all really.

Dave how did the car that wasn't LSP'd fare when compared with the others prior to the sheeting test etc.


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## ToLearn

i was jsut wondering if dave would be haveing a mass clearout of some of his waxes as got so many


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## Neil_S

Tiauguinho said:


> I believe that there won't be any agreement over this...
> 
> And I'm happy about that


Me too, and I'm sticking with Zaino :thumb:


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## Dave KG

L200 Steve said:


> Do you think that Dave's polishing was done to try and 'help' the waxes tested look as good as they could?
> 
> Do you think that Dave tried to help too much, and that his 'uber polishing' actually detracted from the end result?
> 
> Do you think think that the next great wax test should be done (like others above have mentioned) on an unprepped surface?
> 
> A product that can make your motor look drop dead gorgeous with the minimum of effort, and without removing a % of clearcoat? Now there would be a test:thumb:


Yes it would be interesting to see on an unwaxed surface, but this would not answer the question that this test set out to prove, would it? That is, that preparation is the key - put the effort into the prep and regardless of wax choice, the end result will be the same and this is the main take home message from this test so I would disagree that my polishing (or Gaz's or Neil's or Bryan's for the matter) tried to help or indeed helped overly... Simply that it proved that wax choice is at the end of the day completely irrelevant and in my personal opinion the results of this test make that statement very hard to argue with. I stress of course that this is just my opinion.

But slam Royale on a badly prepped car and will it transform it into a supermodel?? No is the answer, I did have a little go at this too.

Naturally this test will spark debate, which is its intention  However, I do think that the main take home message is quite clear - get the prep spot on and it matters not what wax you choose in terms of the end result.... Did it need my polishing to prove that? Nope. Take anyone who is skilled on a machine polisher and the results would have been the same, so sure it is much better to learn the skills of the machine and take the finish to the next level than simply pour out money on a result which without the prep would look mediocre in comparison??


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## Robbieben

I think we all know and accept that "preparation" is the start point for a great looking finish.

I have and use various waxes and sealants for my customers and my own cars, i like to be able to offer the customer a choice, most want long term protection and it's my biggest LSP selection so to speak.

I have customers that want something extra for shows etc, I believe there is a difference to be seen between certain waxes, possibly not immediately, but with some I can see a difference, or is it the lighting?
I find some waxes are better looking after 2-3 days with a wash and wipedown with a QD.

I still feel that sealants offer a more plasticy finish, clarity without the warmth that I feel a wax gives, but again the lighting and even paintwork colour can and do make a difference.

I'm sorry and even dissapointed that I was unable to attend this test, I feel that I've missed an opportunity so to speak, where else will I have an opportunity to see 7 Identical car's all corrected and prepared to the highest possible standard and to view the differences.

Dave in your Sheeting and Beading writeup I could see very slight differences between the different products, all were close, the waxes all very similar but a slight noticable difference in the beading on some, more so with the 915 and Raceglaze 55 IMO. Is that because they offer greater durability perhaps?

IMO the Z2 Sealant stood out for what it was on the Beading shots against the waxes, bigger beads just waiting to fall away from the paintwork, also possibly an advantage to Z2 here as it may help with water removal from the surface.

A big thanks goes to you Dave for having the drive and enthusiasm to conduct the test in the first place, respect and thanks to you all for giving up your time to prepare the cars for the test and bringing the results to us all here on DW and no doubt by now worldwide.:thumb:


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## Dodo Factory

Robbieben said:


> Dave in your Sheeting and Beading writeup I could see very slight differences between the different products, all were close, the waxes all very similar but a slight noticable difference in the beading on some, more so with the 915 and Raceglaze 55 IMO. Is that because they offer greater durability perhaps?


Good beading doesn't necessarily mean good durability as you have no way of knowing how quickly the wax layer will degrade. However, it is always a good starting point to have more beading than less, as it will indicate how hydrophobic the wax coating is.

When shots are put up of freshly machined paint beading extremely well, there will often be machine polish residue (glaze/lubricating oils) at work, improving the beading on the surface. The only way to see the difference a wax adds over 'bare' paint is to IPA the surface. Even freshly machined paint won't bead as well as you'd think without any kind of product on it.


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## silver bmw z3

So all we need now is Andy to lend you 7 corsas for a few months to test durability?
Why no Dodo wax on the test ?


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## Dave KG

silver bmw z3 said:


> So all we need now is Andy to lend you 7 corsas for a few months to test durability?
> Why no Dodo wax on the test ?


Because we only had 7 cars, so some waxes inevitably had to be left out of the test.


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## Jaygo

I appreciate and respect Dave’s thoughts on excluding the untreated car from the test but personally I would have found it interesting and informative to see how it compared.

I understand there was very little difference visually between the untreated car and the others.

Similarly there seems to have been very little if any significant visual difference let alone 'improvement' between the treated ones.

I’ve believed for some time that there is very little visual improvement offered by one LSP as against another.

Notwithstanding the claims of noticeable or even significant visual improvement following the application of an LSP to a freshly polished surface I’ve personally never witnessed it.

The logic of this is that although a well polished and prepared car will arguably show little if any improvement following the application of an LSP, a less well prepared car may well show some improvement although it still won’t look as good.

In which case well intentioned claims of significant improvements following the application of an LSP are either on cars which aren’t as well prepared as imagined or it’s all in the eye of the beholder – people seeing what they expect to see or what they want to see.


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## Neil_S

Interesting point, I seldom see much of an improvement when putting on an LSP after polishing.

I still maintain Z2 Pro is the only LSP I have tried that I can see an improvement after applying to a freshly polished car (small but appreciable).

I can tend to see an improvement, again subtle, with many waxes a day later, but I've never been able to quantify that against an untreated car.


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## Bigpikle

I agree, as several of my neighbours have pretty new cars (08) that havent been washed poorly enough yet to be swirled to hell, and once cleaned they often look awesome, in a 'just waxed' way that I know not to be true as they wash them with griity sponges and Fairy Liquid 99% of the time. 

The looks dont last but for the first few weeks/months they do look pretty good - hard to imagine an LSP adding much to that 'new car' finish....


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## Jaygo

I’ve never been able to replicate claims of noticeable let alone significant improvements after applying an LSP - my surface preparation must be pretty good ?

I won’t pursue this here because I don’t want to take this thread off topic.


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## ahaydock

Thanks Dave a top write up and thanks for organising it. Well done to who that attended and helped (shame I couldn't make it myself).

Interesting comment on the RG55 and Colly 915. Personally I find the RG55 does have a slightlier glossier nuance over the 915. That said both are very good :thumb:


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## MrBitsy

I think the colour of the car plays a big part too. Like most here, i tried lots of waxes and sealants to find the best combination for my car. I would agree with you that on looks alone, there isn't a great deal of difference between the products, but I do think certain products will look different on different colours of paint.

Also, the number of layers also plays a part in how the finish will bead. I have two coats of Z5 and two of Z2 on my Rover, and I am stunned how well it sheets water when I rinse it. I found it interesting that Zaino was in last place for most people for beading, yet on my Rover, it beads far better than any wax I have tried 

How it applies and removes is important to me. I have tried waxes like Collinite 476 that can be a pain to remove, yet I find Zaino to be easy to use.

So I wouldn't recommend anyone picking the number one product, based on what other people think. Yes, they will give you a direction to follow, but your car, your colour and the look you are after may very well be very different to them


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## trykkertor

Dave KG said:


> Money will categorically not buy you a better finish IMHO and it is my feeling that the test results prove this conclusively. This was obvious to me when prepping the cars in the garage - the efforts going into the machine finish transformed the look of the cars, but adding the wax delivered nothing tenable extra to the looks - regardless of whether it was Collinite or Royale!
> .....
> .....
> 
> So what can I really conclude? Well, for me, the main take home message is this: money will not buy results in the wax world. Prep is the key to any finish, and durability is not directly related to price and durability is the main important factor of the LSP. The inconsistencies in the looks results clearly highlight to me that waxes just do not offer anything to the final look on a well prepped car - in my opinion at least...


As I agree with you there is still one factor that has not been mentioned here.
And perhaps it's a bit natural that it has not been mentioned as this is a car detailing forum where most of us put a real effort in prepping the car.

The factor I'm thinking about is hideously NOT PREPPING THE CAR!!!
It's just recently I discovered the world of detailing.
An my previous 13 years of car and motorcylce ownership has been the basic sponge wash and turtlewax.

At that time the different products made a difference, as some are bette hiding the non prepped surface, than others.
As AG SRP with an EGP-layer was the best shine I could get, a cheap discount noname Wax was the worst.

But again. Not really a factor here at detailing world. But I belive there are some differences between the products, and especially amon the everyday car owner this will appear more visible.


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## Dave KG

trykkertor said:


> As I agree with you there is still one factor that has not been mentioned here.
> And perhaps it's a bit natural that it has not been mentioned as this is a car detailing forum where most of us put a real effort in prepping the car.
> 
> The factor I'm thinking about is hideously NOT PREPPING THE CAR!!!
> It's just recently I discovered the world of detailing.
> An my previous 13 years of car and motorcylce ownership has been the basic sponge wash and turtlewax.
> 
> *At that time the different products made a difference, as some are bette hiding the non prepped surface, than others.
> As AG SRP with an EGP-layer was the best shine I could get, a cheap discount noname Wax was the worst.*
> 
> But again. Not really a factor here at detailing world. But I belive there are some differences between the products, and especially amon the everyday car owner this will appear more visible.


Yes, but SRP is a polishing product - lightly abrasive with fillers, so this is paintwork preparation so I'm not surprised this was the best shine achieved as little other product deliver such good results when working away by hand - top with EGP for prolonged protection. A simple wax will come nowhere close as it is not graced with cleansers, abrasives and fillers.

It is often argues that a pure wax, say ***** Carbon, will make a tenable difference to unprepared paint and you will notice more differences between them than on unprepared paint - maybe true, but how long lived is this difference, which is likely just coming from glaze oils some waxes contain and light filling of marring by the wax layer itself? Answer is typically not very in my experience, unless the prep work has been done and again this brings us back to your experience with SRP delivering some of the best finishes you saw as you said.

It is important when considering the differences in products to ensure one compares the same types of product - ie, not comparing SRP to a pure wax like say Megs #16. As they are two very different products despite marketing perhaps not making that differentiation all that very clearly. Take a set of pure waxes, and I reckon even on unprepped paint the differences will still be very small, perhaps slightly more than prepped but this will likely be down to oil contents. Plus, any finish coming from simply slapping wax onto unprepped paint (by which I mean, not clayed or cleansed, not necessarily burnished to perfection) will never come close to the quality achievable from adding simple prep steps that the every day car user can achieve simply by picking up a bottle of SRP


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## hartzsky

True about the LSP and proper prep. However, 99% of the population doesn't hang out on detailing forums and 99% or more do not polish there cars. A real world test I would like to see is applying a given product to an average vehicle and see who stands out on top. Lets face it, most people take a product home and apply it to there car. And thats all they do. For the detailing enthusiast, the wax test provides good info, for the vast majority of people, it means nothing.


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## sweetlou

Great read! Interesting how the psychology of waxes is applied. I dont think raceglaze is available in the states or i would give it a try. I've got products that work but still am looking for a boutique that may do the EXACT same thing and look exactly the same, but like you said, its that "special" feeling, dont want to spend stupid money though. Guess ill have to "settle" for some banana armor :lol:


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## jimjon

£8k for wax!!!!!! :lol::lol:

no one here has actually paid that have they?

whats the most expensive product people own?


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## SiGainey

£25 wax is the most I own, anything more just isn't worth it to me. It's a hobby to me, not a business


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## gt5500

I don't want to sound like an ass here but why are people still banging on about how certain polishes on an unprepped car will have a better effect. Did none of you bother to read what the test was about? I think Dave has done an excellent job of proving that the paint is where the finish comes from the LSP simply adds protection. I think a good analogy that has already been mentioned is getting a new mirror, apply wax, I guarantee you will not see a difference. Prepped paint should be like a sheet of glass an LSP cannot add anything to it since it is already giving the best reflection. One thing I have always wondered though is what would happen if you added more coats of clear coat surely that really would add depth?


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## chrisdovey

i find that different waxes do make a slight differece in the colour and reflection but the biggest change in refelction and colour is done by the glaze which my detailing its done by chemical guy wet mirror finish


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## West

gt5500 said:


> I don't want to sound like an ass here but why are people still banging on about how certain polishes on an unprepped car will have a better effect. Did none of you bother to read what the test was about? I think Dave has done an excellent job of proving that the paint is where the finish comes from the LSP simply adds protection. I think a good analogy that has already been mentioned is getting a new mirror, apply wax, I guarantee you will not see a difference. Prepped paint should be like a sheet of glass an LSP cannot add anything to it since it is already giving the best reflection. One thing I have always wondered though is what would happen if you added more coats of clear coat surely that really would add depth?


I will agree if a prepped car is done LSP does very little or nothing as its already perfect, but from exsperience a glaze fx. can do a whole lot to an unprepped car.. This year I will see if I can see anything after prepping my car myself as I didn't have the tools for it last year but this year I have..

About the clear coat - one side of me would agree yes but again when thinking logically through this..
If you have perfect mirror finish clear coat the light will travel through giving mirror finish and perfect colour reflections in the light aspect..
Adding another layer that is still perfect shouldn't affect the lightrays which gives the shine, reflectivity and colour perfections - as these would still travel through the same way and coming off the same way and angle as the surface would still be perfect and thereby giving the exact same result..

Also if what you're saying should be true - a new car with a thicker clearcoat should potentionally be more shiny than one you get home and do the best detailing ever on and removing some of the clearcoat..
And when you see results on cars with original painwork from 1950 and they look like new or just painted I would tend to disagree here..


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## Guest

Take 7 black cars, machine polish them until they all are equal in appearance.

Take 6 of them and put a different wax on each

Set up a polling station out in public some place and have the common man on the street rate which they like the best from 1 being best to 7. One nice busy weekend would do. and oh, BTW have a very pretty girl ask if they wouldn't mind taking a survey.....


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## Planet Man

Top work Dave and a great write up. What you have concluded did not really surprise me as we all know how important the prep is

Every technique can be used in many ways, but mastering it, that is what really counts. I think what you have done so far will inspire others to complete more tests even on un-prepped cars maybe, so that we can all continue to gain more experience and have a better understanding of this thing called detailing that we all love so much:thumb:


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## jimmy_b_84

top read cheers dave:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:


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## BrowserBugs

*Was driving myself mad!*

Thanks for the tech report, no clearer to me as for choice but it's good to know that price does not determine the finish.


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## TeaTimer

Dave KG said:


> ..
> 
> It is important when considering the differences in products to ensure one compares the same types of product - ie, not comparing SRP to a pure wax like say Megs #16. As they are two very different products despite marketing perhaps not making that differentiation all that very clearly. Take a set of pure waxes, and I reckon even on unprepped paint the differences will still be very small, perhaps slightly more than prepped but this will likely be down to oil contents. Plus, any finish coming from simply slapping wax onto unprepped paint (by which I mean, not clayed or cleansed, not necessarily burnished to perfection) will never come close to the quality achievable from adding simple prep steps that the every day car user can achieve simply by picking up a bottle of SRP


:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Really great thread, and *brilliant *work Dave.

It's all very clear to me now. A "shiny new car" description is the result of undamaged paintwork and hopefully an equal level of paint or topcoat nicely reflecting light. A £20 (Boots No 7) wax will look as good as one that costs £2000 (Chanel 5) on this car. Like happens with a young person's skin that is well hydrated.

Once exposed to the elements, bad washing practices etc, the body has wrinkles in it and these cannot reflect light evenly and so looks dull (like an older person sometimes  ). You may feel better by slapping on the £2000 cream for it may smell nicer, but basically you are wasting your money. You are better of doing skin toning, hydrating well or even stretching the skin (plastic work).

There is a lot of science to paint correction (it's not art really) but this knowledge is not appreciated by Joe Public, and dare I say it even by some valeters and detailers.

As you say, for most people most times, they are better off by picking up SRP or equivalent


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