# Power/Lighting to the garage



## w00044 (May 17, 2009)

I'm currently having all of my front garden and driveway dug up and relayed/landscaped and thought an ideal time to get power and lighting to my garage (in the back garden).

Was recommended an electrician by the landscapers (who've done a lot of work for me in the past and that I trust fully) who is Part P certified.

My question is this right, I'm not an electrician by any means but other people (non electricians!) have told me otherwise.

The electrician asked me what I wanted which was basically a 6ft twin strip light and one double socket and this is what he's done;

Strip light installed in the roof
Double socket installed
Both link from a (if i'm using the right word) a 40amp consumer unit like this:










in which is a 32amp (I assume for the socket) and a 4amp for the light. I say amp, it says on them b32 & b4 and they are labelled as MCB-1822 and MCB1806. Like these:










All seems Ok so far, coming from that unit to the house is the really thick, metal shield cable, very heavy and very think but unsure of the exact spec.

And this is now where i'm not sure. To take it back to the main board in the house would be one hell of a run, probably 45-50m or more, so he's connecting it to the end of the kitchen socket ring main (and I assume) via a fused spur, is this OK?

Searching the net doesn't categorically answer it .......

Any sparky's around?

Cheers

Andy


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## CleanCar99 (Dec 30, 2011)

doesnt sound right to me but im not a sparkie.


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## ford nut (Dec 12, 2011)

Dont see a problem with this, not a problem as your only running a double socket and a light. would need to go back to the main consumer unit if you was going to run multi sockets and some heavy duty gear in there. ie, welders etc...


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## andrewone (May 11, 2011)

Hi mate im a sparky. I asume he has layed a steel wire armoured (SWA) cable underground feeding as consumer unit in your garage. You are correct in saying that you should not just come spur off a local socket as in your case the one in the kitchen. It must be taken back to your consumer unit in the house. If i was doing the installation i would have chosen a 5 way consumer unit to install in the garage incase you want to add other circuits at a later date. If you only have one socket this may have been installed as a radial circuit and must be put on a 16amp mcb, if you have more than one it have have been installed using a ring final circuit which is fine to use a 32amp mcb. As for your lighting a 4amp mcb is acceptable but if you later add more lights on to the same circuit you may suffer from nuisance tripping!! so i would have chosen a 6amp mcb. My advice would be to ask another electrical company to come and give you an opinion on what has been done. Always look for the NIC EIC symbol or trustmark logo. As these compaines have to be spot on!!!

A consumer unit like this would be fine in the garage.









If you have any more questions please ask away!!
HTH
Drew :thumb:


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## w00044 (May 17, 2009)

Thanks for the responses, a bit like elsewhere when I've tried to research various answers!

EDIT, yes armoured cable (bliming thick and heavy!)

Drew, I could potentially run back to the consumer unit in the house but it's a good 40m run at best, does this cause an issue due to the length?

I'm at the stage where it's all fitted in the garage but not yet connected or entering the house so there is still time to at least potentially go back to the consumer unit, i'll speak to the guy in the morning.

Interestingly on another forum I copied and pasted my original post, to which an electrician replied to say "yes as long as the ring (final) circuit is suitable and measured for the additional load, the garage could be supplied from a fused spur inserted in the ring and a cable run out to a DP switch then to a socket-outlet in the garage"........

confused.com!


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## mark1 (Dec 12, 2011)

sounds ok as long as the cable is properly buried in the ground and is backed up by an rcd in the main d/b and also as long as the fused spur has got a lesser size fuse than whats in the d/b to allow for diversity and fault conditions so for example the ring circuit he is going to tap off of is 32 amp which it should be if its a ring circuit then the spur would have to be fused at 20 amp (next fuse size down) really all depends what you want to run off the sockets really as to weather 20 amp is big enough as the main fuse. if your only running small power then u would only need a radial which would only need to be 16 amp then a 4-6 amp fuse for the lights this would be ok most electrical things bought from the shops are fused at 13 amp anyway except things like welders etc

but all said and done if he has put a big ish swa in to supply the garage then he should have run it back to the distribution board which is the best practice (and what i would have done) because if your going to use a big ish cable then its pointless if your going to put a 20 amp fuse on the end of it (do you know what size the supply cable is ??) 

surely if he is part p he would have had to certificate the installation for you


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## w00044 (May 17, 2009)

I'm not sure on the size of the cable, it's bigger than a 5p but not as big as a 10p if thats any help! (can you tell i'm not a sparky!)

I think i'll just bet the bullet and whilst all the ground is dug up have it run the 40 odd meters around to the front of the house and into the main board.


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## mark1 (Dec 12, 2011)

thats the best and correct way to do it mate the other way is ok just not best practice and lazy lol


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## w00044 (May 17, 2009)

All sorted, for less than £200 more he's running it round straight from the consumer unit!

Thanks for everyone's help and advice.


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## mark1 (Dec 12, 2011)

no worries mate


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## andrewone (May 11, 2011)

Glad you got it sorted fella!! :thumb:


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Technically, there was nothing wrong with running it from a fused spur, and there is no regulation that says it should not be done. It would not have been classed as good practice though.



andrewone said:


> If you only have one socket this may have been installed as a radial circuit and must be put on a 16amp mcb, if you have more than one it have have been installed using a ring final circuit which is fine to use a 32amp mcb.


Why would you have to use a RFC if the OCPD is 32A? Radials are perfectly fine and even preferable to RFC in 99% of all situations. A single socket doesn't necessarily have to be installed on a 16A MCB either.



andrewone said:


> Always look for the NIC EIC symbol or trustmark logo. As these compaines have to be spot on!!!...


And ELECSA, NAPIT, SELECT. The NIC are a joke btw


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## verbarthe (Feb 28, 2009)

I ran electrics into my garage last year and the sparky who wired it up for me (did all the trench digging and armoured cable laying myself ) took a spur from the house, as said , it really depends on how much usage it s going to get . O ne thing i did get was a consumer unit very similar if not identical to the one posted by Andrewone , makes sense to get a bigger one as you then have the scope to add further lights etc to it should the need arise .


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

This thread makes me wonder about my garage I had built last year. Friend and I did all the electrics, consumer unit few double sockets and 2 strip lights all wired back to house consumer unit approx 3 metres away(didn't use armoured cable but it went in plastic piping underground that the builder put in when digging foundations etc)
Thing is I was told if I didn't want to get an electrician to sort it and get Part P that would be fine but when I come to sell the house I would need to disconnect the supply to the garageas I would have no cert for it.
Think I was wrong to?


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## w00044 (May 17, 2009)

From what i've read and researched, advice here and other forums I'd say you were totally in breach of the regulations and therefore committed a criminal offence! I'm not qualified to comment on if the cable etc was right or wrong but a quick look on the Planning Portal shows this should have been referred to building control before work commenced.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Darlofan said:


> (didn't use armoured cable but it went in plastic piping underground that the builder put in when digging foundations etc)


This doesn't comply anyway as plastic pipe is not recognised as providing any mechanical protection. You wouldn't have a hope of it passing an electrical inspection.

Connected or not, you installed some fixed wiring which technically would have to be disclosed when you sell you house on the bit that says 'have you had any work performed on the house requiring planning permission or building notification'.


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## slim_boy_fat (Jun 23, 2006)

I'd be surprised if the OP settles for one double socket + one light once in and using the supply - in this case less is not more.

Get extra capacity built in at this stage and save problems/worry later.....


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

I'm pretty sure that your only allowed to spur off a ring to a single item i.e. a single socket or single set of lights etc. You can't spur off a ring to another circuit running sockets & lights.

Well thats what I picked up from PartP during my extension.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Rob_Quads said:


> I'm pretty sure that your only allowed to spur off a ring to a single item i.e. a single socket or single set of lights etc. You can't spur off a ring to another circuit running sockets & lights.
> 
> Well thats what I picked up from PartP during my extension.


You're partly correct. You cannot spur off a spur, but if you spur using a fused connection unit, then you can have whatever you want on the other side because the spur cannot be overloaded as it's protected by the 13A fuse in the FCU (433.1.5).


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## w00044 (May 17, 2009)

slim_boy_fat said:


> I'd be surprised if the OP settles for one double socket + one light once in and using the supply - in this case less is not more.
> 
> Get extra capacity built in at this stage and save problems/worry later.....


You are correct, however once all wired up with light and one socket I can easily extend myself for more sockets as a radial circuit. Cheaper for me to do that than the electrician!

I've already been looking at heaters! :lol:


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

SteveyG said:


> This doesn't comply anyway as plastic pipe is not recognised as providing any mechanical protection. You wouldn't have a hope of it passing an electrical inspection.
> 
> Connected or not, you installed some fixed wiring which technically would have to be disclosed when you sell you house on the bit that says 'have you had any work performed on the house requiring planning permission or building notification'.


Did get planning permission for the building itself but didn't require building regs as under a certain size.

What's coming out of this thread is how hard the regs are to understand as different answers keep coming from people who sound like they know what they're talking about.


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## w00044 (May 17, 2009)

Darlofan said:


> Did get planning permission for the building itself but didn't require building regs as under a certain size.
> 
> What's coming out of this thread is how hard the regs are to understand as different answers keep coming from people who sound like they know what they're talking about.


This is site straightforward:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/AD_P_wm.pdf


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## andrewone (May 11, 2011)

SteveyG said:


> Technically, there was nothing wrong with running it from a fused spur, and there is no regulation that says it should not be done. It would not have been classed as good practice though.
> 
> Why would you have to use a RFC if the OCPD is 32A? Radials are perfectly fine and even preferable to RFC in 99% of all situations. A single socket doesn't necessarily have to be installed on a 16A MCB either.
> 
> And ELECSA, NAPIT, SELECT. The NIC are a joke btw


Yes mate your correct you dont have to use a 32A for a RFC but thats how we do it and i was taught!! Your also right in saying that a single socket doenst have to be on a 16A but i would hazard a guess that 2.5mm has been installed and 16A is the largest breaker you can put in!! if 4mm was installed then yes a bigger breaker.
Had some bad dealing with the NIC have you???


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

andrewone said:


> Had some bad dealing with the NIC have you???


They seem to be a law unto themselves, despite them actually having no authority 



andrewone said:


> Your also right in saying that a single socket doenst have to be on a 16A but i would hazard a guess that 2.5mm has been installed and 16A is the largest breaker you can put in!!


20A depending on the installation method


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## organisys (Jan 3, 2012)

andrewone said:


> Hi mate im a sparky. I asume he has layed a steel wire armoured (SWA) cable underground feeding as consumer unit in your garage. You are correct in saying that you should not just come spur off a local socket as in your case the one in the kitchen. It must be taken back to your consumer unit in the house. If i was doing the installation i would have chosen a 5 way consumer unit to install in the garage incase you want to add other circuits at a later date. If you only have one socket this may have been installed as a radial circuit and must be put on a 16amp mcb, if you have more than one it have have been installed using a ring final circuit which is fine to use a 32amp mcb. As for your lighting a 4amp mcb is acceptable but if you later add more lights on to the same circuit you may suffer from nuisance tripping!! so i would have chosen a 6amp mcb. My advice would be to ask another electrical company to come and give you an opinion on what has been done. Always look for the NIC EIC symbol or trustmark logo. As these compaines have to be spot on!!!
> 
> A consumer unit like this would be fine in the garage.
> 
> ...


I am an Electrical Designer by profession. All this above is 100% spot on.


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## Dave3066 (Apr 14, 2011)

SteveyG said:


> ELECSA, NAPIT, SELECT. The NIC are a joke btw


ELECSA (now ECA Certification) is a branch of the ECA. SELECT operates in Scotland only, where Part P does not apply. Different set of building regs. Apart from the Electricity at Work Regs and the regulations that your particular local authority work to there is very little statutory legislation covering electrical installations, particularly in domestic situations. Best practice in the form of BS 7671:2008 amendment 1 should always be followed, but this is non-statutory. Always best to speak to your local authority verifier to confirm what they will accept or employ a third party accredited electrician, either ECA, SELECT or NICEIC registered. You'll pay a bit more but you won't then have to pay someone else to come in and sort it properly after!

The NICEIC as an organisation are not that bad by the way, but every barrel has a few rotten apples....and no I don't work for them.

Dave


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