# More swirls by polishing?



## Rían P (Jun 2, 2014)

Hi all.

Was polishing the corsa (1999) flame red today, with Britemax AIO and a Kent demister microfibre pad. As I polished, and buffed off (using a Meguiars microfibre cloth), i put the torch of my phone on, shined it onto the paint, noticing that there were actually more swirls present after polishing.

Can anyone shed any light on this? The car was washed, and dried using Britemax Clean max with Spray and Shine.

The car has not been clayed yet but when I used AG SRP, this never happened. The dew was starting to set on the cars so maybe that is part of it?

I'm really getting fed up here so if anyone could help that'd be great.

Thanks,
Rían P


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## Luke M (Jul 1, 2013)

Could be several things. 
Contamination due to not claying.
Dirty microfiber to apply or remove.
Not working the product enough.
Oh and did you check the paint with a torch before you started?


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## A&J (Mar 4, 2015)

SRP is a filler polish so it always filled and hid your swirls while britemax is more of a fine cut polish with some protection and no glaze or filling capabilities.

2 different aio products. Your swirls were always there, britemax just cleaned and removed the fillers from srp.

And also claying is an important step before polishing.


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## Rían P (Jun 2, 2014)

Luke M said:


> Could be several things.
> Contamination due to not claying.
> Dirty microfiber to apply or remove.
> Not working the product enough.
> Oh and did you check the paint with a torch before you started?


Microfibre was clean
I worked the product well but i don't know if enough
I compared the polished half of the bonnet with that of the polished half.


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## Rían P (Jun 2, 2014)

A&J said:


> SRP is a filler polish so it always filled and hid your swirls while britemax is more of a fine cut polish with some protection and no glaze or filling capabilities.
> 
> 2 different aio products. Your swirls were always there, britemax just cleaned and removed the fillers from srp.
> 
> And also claying is an important step before polishing.


By looking at them they're definitely new. The paint was/is in reasonable nick and so the swirls were minimal to begin with. The car was last polished in the summer and so I suspect SRP's fillers are long gone.


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## A&J (Mar 4, 2015)

Perhaps the microfiber pad is too aggresive, try differnt foam finishing pad!

Microfiber pads are for heavy cutting, so you always have to refine with a softer pad and finer polish.

Aio products should be used with soft finishing pads.


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## Rían P (Jun 2, 2014)

A&J said:


> Perhaps the microfiber pad is too aggresive, try differnt foam finishing pad!
> 
> Microfiber pads are for heavy cutting, so you always have to refine with a softer pad and finer polish.
> 
> Aio products should be used with soft finishing pads.


Hmm perhaps. Last time i used one of those cheap 12 for £1.50, foam applicators and it made it far worse. So maybe it is applicator. This is all by hand by the way.

Do you let Britemax dry to a haze? Just the bottle says "wipe off residue" so I assumed buff immediately.


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## A&J (Mar 4, 2015)

Now you tell us...I thought you polished it by machine this whole time!

Then i go back to my previous statement that Britemax cleaned the paint and removed the fillers. Not claying before also had something to do with it.

The thing with hand polishing is that unless you have very soft paint, removing swirls and scratches by hand is almost impossible.

The best thing is to go back to using a filler heavy product to hide imperfections like SRP or AF Tripple or any other Glaze on the market...this way you will get the best results unfortunately. Also get your self a tri foam applicator.

BTW Work the Britemax AIO in a circular motion until almost gone and wipe off immediately. No need to haze.


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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

Rían P said:


> Hmm perhaps. Last time i used one of those cheap 12 for £1.50, foam applicators and it made it far worse. So maybe it is applicator. This is all by hand by the way.
> 
> Do you let Britemax dry to a haze? Just the bottle says "wipe off residue" so I assumed buff immediately.


^ Yes you can leave AIO Max to haze over but not essential...very versatile product, can be left overnight if you were working in a garage.

AIO Max is a chemical paint cleanser so whatever swirling you have at the start will still be there at the end.

SRP is every so slightly abrasive but contains a fair amount of fillers so is cleansing your paint and partially hiding some of the light defects you have...both need to be topped with a wax or sealant for the protection element.


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## Rían P (Jun 2, 2014)

A&J said:


> Now you tell us...I thought you polished it by machine this whole time!
> 
> Then i go back to my previous statement that Britemax cleaned the paint and removed the fillers. Not claying before also had something to do with it.
> 
> ...


:lol: sorry about that! Thought using a 'kent demister pad' would have given it away.

I'm looking to get Blackmax for Christmas so that may do the job, by hand, a bit better. AIO max would probably take the swirls out by machine then yeah?

Thanks a million for your help, and for bearing with me!

Thanks,
Rían P :thumb:


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## Rían P (Jun 2, 2014)

Summit Detailing said:


> ^ Yes you can leave AIO Max to haze over but not essential...very versatile product, can be left overnight if you were working in a garage.
> 
> AIO Max is a chemical paint cleanser so whatever swirling you have at the start will still be there at the end.
> 
> SRP is every so slightly abrasive but contains a fair amount of fillers so is cleansing your paint and partially hiding some of the light defects you have...both need to be topped with a wax or sealant for the protection element.


Thanks for clearing that up because people seem to say different things re: hazing.

So will AIO max not remove swirls then? Does it just cleanse the paint and add a bit of protection?

I do genuinely like SRP, it never fails to bring the car up nicely


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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

Rían P said:


> Thanks for clearing that up because people seem to say different things re: hazing.
> 
> So will AIO max not remove swirls then? Does it just cleanse the paint and add a bit of protection?
> 
> I do genuinely like SRP, it never fails to bring the car up nicely


Nope, AIO Max is non abrasive, as for protection if it does leave any behind you'd probably wash it off when you next wash the car.

Have you thought about a true glaze = Meg's #7? would work really well on the Corsa in your avatar - this would be in place of AIOmax & SRP and needs to be topped with a wax as it offers no protection.

^ One of the old school products that's been around for years & is now almost completely overlooked but is top drawer - google is your friend:thumb:


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## Rían P (Jun 2, 2014)

Summit Detailing said:


> Nope, AIO Max is non abrasive, as for protection if it does leave any behind you'd probably wash it off when you next wash the car.
> 
> Have you thought about a true glaze = Meg's #7? would work really well on the Corsa in your avatar - this would be in place of AIOmax & SRP and needs to be topped with a wax as it offers no protection.
> 
> ^ One of the old school products that's been around for years & is now almost completely overlooked but is top drawer - google is your friend:thumb:


Hmm wish I'd known that before i'd bought it, only got the sample size so it's ok. Where would this come into play then? If if doesn't mask anything and doesn't remove any swirls then what's its use?

I have seen Megs #7, and the job that it's done on faded red cars and it is nothing short of amazing. I don't know whether to try that or wait to spring, get a Da and correct it.

Thanks again for the help! 
Rían P


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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

Rían P said:


> Hmm wish I'd known that before i'd bought it, only got the sample size so it's ok. Where would this come into play then? If if doesn't mask anything and doesn't remove any swirls then what's its use?
> 
> I have seen Megs #7, and the job that it's done on faded red cars and it is nothing short of amazing. I don't know whether to try that or wait to spring, get a Da and correct it.
> 
> ...


I use AIO Max on some Protection Detail's, so purely a deep clean and protect exercise - prepping the paint before a couple of layers of wax.

If clients are bothered by defects they can pay to have them removed:buffer::thumb:

#7 is a fair bit cheaper than a DA and associated polishes/pads etc


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## A&J (Mar 4, 2015)

Rían P said:


> I have seen Megs #7, and the job that it's done on faded red cars and it is nothing short of amazing. I don't know whether to try that or wait to spring, get a Da and correct it.


Get yourself some Auto finesse Tripple...Works great on red...Work it in like Britemax AIO and wait a minute or 2 before wipe...top it up with some carnauba wax and be amazed at the end result :thumb:


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## Rían P (Jun 2, 2014)

Summit Detailing said:


> I use AIO Max on some Protection Detail's, so purely a deep clean and protect exercise - prepping the paint before a couple of layers of wax.
> 
> If clients are bothered by defects they can pay to have them removed:buffer::thumb:
> 
> #7 is a fair bit cheaper than a DA and associated polishes/pads etc


Ah ok so you could use it if paint was in good nick just to prep the surface kinda?
I suppose that's true enough lad, will #7 fill swirls etc? I know it's a glaze but is it one that fills? Stupid question maybe but if you don't ask you don't know!


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## Rían P (Jun 2, 2014)

A&J said:


> Get yourself some Auto finesse Tripple...Works great on red...Work it in like Britemax AIO and wait a minute or 2 before wipe...top it up with some carnauba wax and be amazed at the end result :thumb:


I looked at AF tripple, put up a thread about it Vs AG SRP and Poorboys. The general verdict was Af tripple, however the heavy chemical smell put me off it as well as the price. For that money would i not be better with a compound?


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## A&J (Mar 4, 2015)

Yes it will fill...


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## A&J (Mar 4, 2015)

Rían P said:


> I looked at AF tripple, put up a thread about it Vs AG SRP and Poorboys. The general verdict was Af tripple, however the heavy chemical smell put me off it as well as the price. For that money would i not be better with a compound?


Not without a machine...like i said your best option doing by hand is to choose a filler heavy AIO like AF Tripple (and the smell is not that bad) Autobrite Cherry glaze, Bilt hamber cleanser polish, AG SRP, Britemax blackmax or choose a glaze like AF Ultra glaze, Megs #7, CG glossworks glaze, Poorboys black hole, Prima amigo...

Dont forget to top it with a wax or sealant for durability.


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Operator error.
Learn to go it straight lines along the car.
That way due to the refraction of light and the angle of incidence you wouldn't see them.


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## Rían P (Jun 2, 2014)

AllenF said:


> Operator error.
> Learn to go it straight lines along the car.
> That way due to the refraction of light and the angle of incidence you wouldn't see them.


I take your point but Britemax suggest using in circular motion


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

To put it on yes to ensure you fill all the swirls. 
Try taking it OFF in straight lines.
That way You LEAVE the fillers in the optical swirl thus due to light angles etc etc You SHOULDN'T see them.
Also don't buff at a million miles an hour.
Slow and deliberate strokes let the Mf pick the residue off rather than grind in in.


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## Rían P (Jun 2, 2014)

AllenF said:


> To put it on yes to ensure you fill all the swirls.
> Try taking it OFF in straight lines.
> That way You LEAVE the fillers in the optical swirl thus due to light angles etc etc You SHOULDN'T see them.
> Also don't buff at a million miles an hour.
> Slow and deliberate strokes let the Mf pick the residue off rather than grind in in.


Fair enough Allen I hadn't thought of it that way. Suppose that's what the forum's for. You learn as you go.

Aio max must have some kind of cut or filling ability then, according to carproductstested.com


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

It's Dat technology diminshing abrasive.
As the abrasive wears down to effectively nothing then the silicon and wax fillers take over.


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## Rían P (Jun 2, 2014)

AllenF said:


> It's Dat technology diminshing abrasive.
> As the abrasive wears down to effectively nothing then the silicon and wax fillers take over.


Ah so possibly I wasn't working it long enough? Not so much power but length of time?


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Quite possibly.
With an all its often better to almost try and bring the shine up as your putting it on that is work it in until it literally disappears THEN buff it off. Whether going by hand or machine keep the work area small and go panel by panel.

Use it more like aftersun and work it in rather than factor 50 that you just another on. Best analogy I can give you


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## Rían P (Jun 2, 2014)

Right, well i've a bit of practice to put in now. Suppose this is the trial and error. Can't get it perfect first time around! :newbie:

So i Think I'll invest in a new, better suited applicator, apply AIO max in circles, work till clear in a small area, buff off in straight lines. 

Thanks Allen :thumb:


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

It does take practice of you went taught that way.
It may feel un-natural to buff slowly in straight lines but do a 50/50 on a door and see the difference between the two ways. You may be surprised at the difference.


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