# Wax And Supergard



## killwilly (Apr 12, 2009)

Recently collected my new Mercedes CLC, which has been treated with Supergard in and out. There were no instructions given with the small pack containing several sachets of shampoo, bird lime remover and a tube of paint cream. Should it last for three years with just a shampoo wash and no wax?
My previous car a BMW was washed regularly using Autoglym products, shampoo, resin polish and then wax. Would you recommend a wax coat on top of the Supergard sealer? 

Any advice would be very much appreciated.


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

killwilly said:


> Recently collected my new Mercedes CLC, which has been treated with Supergard in and out. There were no instructions given with the small pack containing several sachets of shampoo, bird lime remover and a tube of paint cream. Should it last for three years with just a shampoo wash and no wax?
> My previous car a BMW was washed regularly using Autoglym products, shampoo, resin polish and then wax. Would you recommend a wax coat on top of the Supergard sealer?
> 
> Any advice would be very much appreciated.


Hi mate, I am Supagard's authorised detailer, as you know authorisation is 99.9% dealerships, and did you get a certificate of application with it, if you did and it has been applied correctly it should and most probably will see out its guarantee, however having said that if it hasn't been applied correctly you will be lucky if it lasts a couple of months, if you didn't get a certificate call Supagard and explain to them...Regarding the wax you could apply a wax on top if needed, personal choice really

Russ


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## Lewis-D (Dec 22, 2009)

even if it's applied correctly when you take it for a service chances are the service washers will coat the car in TFR wash it with a sponge and then coat the car in tar and glue and leather it resulting in it being removed!!


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

£250 iirc.

That's like £230 more than 476 is. And the 476 will probably last twice aslong!

Lols. I do wonder how people still get away with selling that stuff.


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## killwilly (Apr 12, 2009)

Thanks guys. I didn't get a certificate, probably because I didn't pay for the treatment, (a freebie). I did email Supergard last week asking their advise, but to date I have had no reply. I can't really see that a coat of wax on top will do any harm, what do you guys think?

PS, What is 476?


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

gally said:


> £250 iirc.
> 
> That's like £230 more than 476 is. And the 476 will probably last twice aslong!
> 
> Lols. I do wonder how people still get away with selling that stuff.


Like some wax manufacturers sell a pot of wax for £10,000.


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## J1ODY A (Nov 28, 2008)

killwilly said:


> Thanks guys. I didn't get a certificate, probably because I didn't pay for the treatment, (a freebie). I did email Supergard last week asking their advise, but to date I have had no reply. I can't really see that a coat of wax on top will do any harm, what do you guys think?
> 
> PS, *What is 476?*


available from most sponsors of DW:


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Showshine said:


> Like some wax manufacturers sell a pot of wax for £10,000.


Well no, not really but kind of.:lol:

People buy the £10,000 wax because they want to, it feels special to use ect... So many reasons, no doubt and it won't last any longer than 476/FK1000!

I see you point though.

I'm more upset at people paying for it who don't know any better and it costs them £250 or similar.  Elderly people imo get it pushed on them by dealers.


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## J1ODY A (Nov 28, 2008)

gally said:


> I'm more upset at people paying for it who don't know any better and it costs them £250 or similar.  *Elderly people imo get it pushed on them by dealers*.


I've had so many experiences of that too... when I bought a new car they started the price at £250 but I said no thanks then they dropped it too £40... money for old rope! :doublesho


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

gally said:


> £250 iirc.
> 
> That's like £230 more than 476 is. And the 476 will probably last twice aslong!
> 
> Lols. I do wonder how people still get away with selling that stuff.


I wonder what a pro would charge to prep a new car and apply 476?.....


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

phobia said:


> Hi mate, I am Supagard's authorised detailer, as you know authorisation is 99.9% dealerships, and did you get a certificate of application with it, if you did and it has been applied correctly it should and most probably will see out its guarantee


Ross - bearing in mind I work for a dealership and have seen the "training" - how exactly can you not apply supaguard correctly?


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

J1ODY A said:


> I've had so many experiences of that too... when I bought a new car they started the price at £250 but I said no thanks then they dropped it too £40... money for old rope! :doublesho


It's funny as an assessor we have bought it in to re-apply on peoples cars.

We charge it out at £35 a panel.

It's costs £40for the 2 bottles and they'll do a lot of panels. Crazy!


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Frothey said:


> Ross - bearing in mind I work for a dealership and have seen the "training" - how exactly can you not apply supaguard correctly?


Don't know about supaguard but lifeshine needs to go on well prepped paint and I've seen it put on cars full of tar.

If applied to a car that's used then it should be free of any contamination and machine polished. I never saw anyone at a dealership machine a used car prior to lifeshine application


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

Its all well and good saying that you have seen the training and then it being put into practice, what I have read on here is that how can a dealer drop a price of £250 to £40 at the blink of an eye, they obviously are not going to be issuing the guarantee...it is this process that is giving Supagard its "total tosh" label and it is these dealerships that will most probably be in for the high jump.

lets face it if you were to buy a new car what would your process be, I assume a lot different to that of the guys applying such at a dealership, that is why I do it, so it is done the way both you and everyone else on here would do, to totally clean paint so that the sealant adheres correctly, at least then when I hand that certificate over and should the product fail I know I have done the job right, in circumstances like that, that is why Supagard stand by the 3yrs....is it worth £250-£400, no, that the dealer charging over £150 an hour to apply a sealant.....

I have also read that the OP has contacted Supagard but it was a freebie anyway, now I am afraid that the said dealership could well be in for a towsing should Supagard ask where he had it applied, they will also ask for Registration and certificate authentication, another thing is that if a dealer doesnt offer the guarantee, which they should irrespective of whether it is £40 or £400 then its either proof enough that Supagard is actually Sh1te or the dealer has no faith in the 17 yr old valeter that is applying it, and that is no offence meant to 17 olds, I think figures regarding Supagard failure is less than 5% of certificated applications so the other 95% of people that have it applied must be really happy with it.....

All in all there are issues with all products on the market, ive read on here issues regarding bonding with this and that but these other products dont get much of a slating, everyone has issues with different products but what I cant understand is that people are either getting something for free or off fleabay for about £4 and still wanting 3yrs out of it....

however back to the OP's original question, wax wont be a problem mate.....


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## m4rkie23 (May 19, 2009)

A friend works for Ford. He said it costs a little over £20 per car (+labour) for the Supaguard. 
They charge over £200 for it IIRC.


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

5% Failure?

How many people will realise it's not protecting there paint after 3 months?

The reason they won't notice is they are trusting people, it's okay for us to say that a good prep an up keep would be just as good for a lot less money but the average Joe does not know this.

They'll assume that it's still working and the bugs will just bounce off this amazing stuff.


It's mis sold in Dealers all over the country. 

I see it day in day out at my work and the stuff imo is total crap, Supaguard, diamondbrite whatever it's new name is. 

Fair play to the person who came up with it. He'll be a rich man.

Supaguard, diamondbrite whatever it's new name is


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

my point exactly, dealerships pay minimum wage for these guys to apply it, in my book thats no more than a few quid, its their way of generating income, salesman commission etc...and my mate is one of those at Toyota, would be good if he sent his customers to me, but wouldn't be cost effective for me to pay his commission...


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

m4rkie23 said:


> A friend works for Ford. He said it costs a little over £20 per car (+labour) for the Supaguard.
> They charge over £200 for it IIRC.


Thats not the point, a detailer would charge £200+ to do a new car prep using 476 that costs a tenner. I wish people would get over the "it only costs £20 to buy" argument, it doesn't stand up.


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## m4rkie23 (May 19, 2009)

But it isnt being applied by a detailer is it. Most of a detailer's time is labour. Not stupidly excessive mark-up.


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

it is by me


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Frothey said:


> Thats not the point, a detailer would charge £200+ to do a new car prep using 476 that costs a tenner. I wish people would get over the "it only costs £20 to buy" argument, it doesn't stand up.


What are you talking about.

There's mark up then there is ripping people off.

Lols at comparing a £200 detail to applying supaguard.


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

m4rkie23 said:


> A friend works for Ford. He said it costs a little over £20 per car (+labour) for the Supaguard.
> They charge over £200 for it IIRC.


Thats not the point, a detailer would charge £200+ to do a new car prep using 476 that costs a tenner. I wish people would get over the "it only costs £20 to buy" argument, it doesn't stand up.



phobia said:


> Its all well and good saying that you have seen the training and then it being put into practice, what I have read on here is that how can a dealer drop a price of £250 to £40 at the blink of an eye, they obviously are not going to be issuing the guarantee...it is this process that is giving Supagard its "total tosh" label and it is these dealerships that will most probably be in for the high jump.


we've never sold Supaguard without a guarantee, and never charge less than £200 for it. Can't see why a dealership would sell it for £40 (and never heard of them doing it) as a kit (not just the sponge) costs a lot more than that. If it's just the sponge, then what do people expect? And I doubt supaguard will lose any sleep, they've got their money and don't need to warranty it. In fact they are trying to do anything to keep dealerships at the moment as a lot are jumping ship. Besides, they haven't done anything to stop in the last 10 years.....

So are you telling me that if you prep the car properly, you personally believe that the LSP will last 3 years?


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

m4rkie23 said:


> But it isnt being applied by a detailer is it. Most of a detailer's time is labour. Not stupidly excessive mark-up.


No, but what does a dealership charge per hour for labour? Conservatively £70+vat? So If they take an hour to do the car, price of a _*full retail*_ kit is around £80+vat. Salesman gets £25 commision - hardly a massive mark up. And it's warrantied (for what it's worth)



gally said:


> What are you talking about.
> 
> There's mark up then there is ripping people off.
> 
> Lols at comparing a £200 detail to applying supaguard.


As above, how is it ripping people off? But to average Joe on the street, is there a difference? If you break it down to it's lowest common denominator, they both end up with a shiny, clean car - after all it's a new car anyway, and we aren't talking about new car correction prep's either. Like JamesB says, detailing is just a valet done properly. The same cost argument stands with a detail, the products aren't a huge cost element of the detail.

I bet if you asked JamesB or Polished Bliss to Supaguard your car, it would cost more than £200...... and rightly so.


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Frothey said:


> So are you telling me that if you prep the car properly, you personally believe that the LSP will last 3 years?


Can I just quote this last part.

Will the Supaguard last 3 years?

No.

Will people really realise that it doesn't work and phone up to say I want it re-applied under warranty?

No.

I very much doubt people will know whether it's working as well as when first applied.


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

what a lot of people on here think and what they believe is 2 different things, I would hope that if a product is marketed as having 12 months protection then I would expect it to, seeing is believing mate, I have not been with Supagard long enough to no whether it has lasted the time, having said that I have done full details with AG HD wax, Raceglaze and others and what the manufacturers have stated the amount of durability you get has appeared to be correct, go figure, 5 months from RG55, which is about what they expect, so far 9 months from AG HD Wax and it is just showing signs, 6 months and counting from werkstat acrylic, and i see these vehicles quite often.... this is not an argument about what i personally believe is it, its about opinions on certain products and everyone has their own, i dont feel i rip people off, i provide a service, if supagards head honcho is sat in his armchair at home counting his cash then so be it....

regarding dealerships jumping ship, why would they with the blatant mark up they have, my guess is that they have just been audited by Supagard


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## m4rkie23 (May 19, 2009)

m4rkie23 said:


> Not stupidly excessive mark-up.





Frothey said:


> What does a dealership charge per hour for labour? Conservatively £70+vat?.


So your guys that apply supaguard are 2-3 times better at it than detailers (who typically charge £25-35 an hour).

Im not out to argue mate, thats what you guys charge to apply it, thats fine. 
I worked in sales for a number of years (not in car sales granted) and understand that there are products/services that you have to sell that ARE overpriced. Its not what the product is/does, its a product with an easy sales pitch that alot of people who know none the wiser will believe. One of the reasons I stopped selling was because the things I was being TOLD I HAD to sell were utter ****.



Frothey said:


> I bet if you asked JamesB or Polished Bliss to Supaguard your car, it would cost more than £200...... and rightly so.


James B and Polished Bliss do not charge anywhere near £70+ vat per hour, and their work is 10000000000 times better than your guys will achieve. Lets be honest.


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

It's not about even comparing supaguard to a wax it's about how much people imo are being ripped off for something that will never last as long as advertised.

I have seen it with my own eyes. 

These companies couldn't sell this stuff to people on here they sell it to people who don't know any better and they buyers listen to what they are being told by the salesman.

You'll never need to wash your car with a sponge, the flys will just power hose off blah blah blah!


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## smegal (Aug 14, 2009)

My stepdad got it thrown in for free with his new 207 (they said they couldn't budge on the price but could include that). He has the nice bag with all the bits in as well.

The thing I have noticed is the fine swirls that covered the paintwork on a brand new car.

TBH I want to apply some proper wax because I don't have that much faith in sealants.


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

its all brown tonging mate, salesman have to earn more money to keep their house in order, my mate worked nearly 80hrs at Toyota last week and as he is salaried and commission based his hourly rate worked out at £3.80ish, but then again I dont think he has the salesman spiel


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## m4rkie23 (May 19, 2009)

He's obviously in the wrong career lol!


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

didn't say they were - that's just what dealerships charge per hour, doesn't matter whether it's a trainee, valeter or experienced mech. I bet a dealerships overheads are higher than most detailers as well (but that's their problem!)

I also have never said that the work is anywhere close to any of the detailers I know, just stating the facts of what products actually cost, and what the labour rate is. Labour rate is no reflection on quality of work, just what people feel they can "get away" with charging, and if people do a good enough job, others will happily pay for it. I used to actively detail, still do for a few people I know, so I know what the standard of my guys work is like, and what mine was. But then I wasn't charging £200 

Supaguard is only a "rip off" if it isn't sold correctly, and I can count on two hands the number of Supaguards that I have sold in 5 years, mainly only to people that have asked for it as they have had it before (so must've been pleased!) - it's a bone of contention with my dealer principle that I don't sell it as we are targeted for it, but he knows my views and I am good enough in other areas to get away with it!

With regards to Supaguard auditing - never happened to us or any of our 5 franchises. The reason we are getting away from it is that there are better products, that last longer (I've used them on the old daily driver) and have longer warranties (for what they are worth). Other's change because there are cheaper products that do the same job, like autosmarts.


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

gally said:


> These companies couldn't sell this stuff to people on here they sell it to people who don't know any better and they buyers listen to what they are being told by the salesman.
> 
> You'll never need to wash your car with a sponge, the flys will just power hose off blah blah blah!


Don't forget these products existed long before most of the people on here had heard of detailing. Indeed the detailing market is tiny, I'm pretty sure they aren't too bothered about what we say on here! with regards to the sponge/fly comments, that has never been something said by supaguard - why would they supply a sponge in the kit? It's all stuff dreamt up by bad salesman......


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## m4rkie23 (May 19, 2009)

I cant believe that you charge £70+ vat for a valeter to apply supaguard. 
Regardless of overheads or what you feel you can get away with charging. 

To have a highly trained mechanic work on a vehicle for that rate is understandable (to a degree). To charge it for applying a sealant....is (imo) silly.

And please dont take this the wrong way, but if youve sold less than 10 applications in 5 years....doesnt that perfectly highlight that it is too expensive?


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

m4rkie23 said:


> I cant believe that you charge £70+ vat for a valeter to apply supaguard.
> Regardless of overheads or what you feel you can get away with charging.
> 
> To have a highly trained mechanic work on a vehicle for that rate is questionable, but understandable. To charge it for applying a sealant....is (imo) silly.


They dont, that's just the hourly rate. They win some, they lose some......

Highly trained mechanic needed to remove an oil filter, replace and fill with oil :lol:



m4rkie23 said:


> And please dont take this the wrong way, but if youve sold less than 10 applications in 5 years....doesnt that perfectly highlight that it is too expensive?


No, the other guys sell plenty. I have morals..... even as a car salesman :lol:


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

It's wasn't meant to be taken seriously, it's touted as a miracle thing that it just isn't.

Then again you can blame the salesman, he's the one selling/blagging it! He most likely doesn't know what it does.

Did you just admit you wouldn't sell it because really at the end of the day you think it's crap?

It's just very annoying. It won't work for 3 years I don't care what anyone says.

And the fact you mention that the guy will no doubt be counting his cash not caring what we think pretty much states it's a rip off that's not worth half of what it costs!


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## m4rkie23 (May 19, 2009)

gally said:


> Did you just admit you wouldn't sell it because really at the end of the day you think it's crap?





Frothey said:


> No, the other guys sell plenty. I have morals..... even as a car salesman :lol:


So you admit its crap then and it doesn't do what it says it does (or you would happily offer it with every vehicle you sell as it is benefiting the customer).


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## bluevortex (Aug 10, 2007)

My dad purchased Supaguard in 2007 despite my argument against it. He got it applied by Toyota on the 1st service discounted to £150. When he got the car back he was very happy, got a certificate plus a maintenance pack etc. I thought it was actually rather good finish despite all the negatives I had read. 

Unfortunately, 3 months later the finish was not so great and a summer of bugs had taken its its toll on the finish. I offered to fully detail his car, remove the supaguard, 2 stage polish etc and he bought a pot of BOS £120 for me to use and keep as payment. I didn't wash his car again after that detail for 8-10 months and bugger me the car still showing sign of beading in places 

Don't waste your money on this Supaguard

Simple


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

^ How funny he didn't phone up and complain about the warranty. As I stated before. 

I wonder how many others have done the same! Hmmmmm!

I mean failure rate is only 5% iirc.


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

m4rkie23 said:


> So you admit its crap then and it doesn't do what it says it does (or you would happily offer it with every vehicle you sell as it is benefiting the customer).


There are plenty of threads on here where I've said it is crap _COMPARED_ to having it done properly at the same sort of cost. Show me where I've said it isn't. And that's exactly why I don't offer it. Nothing to do with price, because if it was £50 and still crap I still wouldn't offer it!

It isn't the product that's crap, it's the application by the vast majority of dealerships and the false promises made by the guy selling it (which you can't blame him for selling, they are contracted/targetted for and in some of the big city/pressure franchises not selling enough of it can lead to a disciplinary). As has been pointed out in a load of threads, where people berate top end waxes because you can't see the difference, the lsp has little to do with looks and most don't have 6 months plus of protection, so how as a product do you define Supaguard as crap compared with other £20 products (as that's what people seem to pay for them?)

And no, I don't use it


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## m4rkie23 (May 19, 2009)

Oh yeah, I completely agree. Its a targeted sales item and salesmen sell it regardless of what they know about it. Like alot of things in sales, and like I said, one of the reasons I left that industry. To be a successful retail salesman, you need to have no morals. lol


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

m4rkie23 said:


> Oh yeah, I completely agree. Its a targeted sales item and salesmen sell it regardless of what they know about it. Like alot of things in sales, and like I said, one of the reasons I left that industry. To be a successful retail salesman, you need to have no morals. lol


Not really, you just need to sell people what they actually need, and sell it profitably


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## m4rkie23 (May 19, 2009)

LOL. Theres a BIG difference between what customer's need and targets.


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

Nope, you just have to make sure you exceed in the stuff they actually need, to make up for the the stuff you haven't sold that they don't.

There are virtually no industries where the core products are things that people actually need, capitalism wouldn't work.


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## killwilly (Apr 12, 2009)

Many thanks to everyone for your posts. Sorry, but I had no intention of starting a debate on the merits of Supergard. To be truthful I had never heard of the product before I collected the car and was told that it had been done as a freebie. I most certainly would never have paid £250 or whatever they charge for it. Being retired, time is something I have plenty of and one thing I do enjoy is cleaning my car. My 8 year old BMW looked immaculate from using AG shampoo and polish when I part exchanged it for the Mercedes.

From your posts it would appear that a wax coat on top of the Supergard can't do any harm, so that is what I shall do before any contaminants start to build up on what looks to be at the moment a perfect finish.

I have AG at the moment, so will use that. When that runs out I shall try one of the other products recommended by you guys. I assume that it would be OK to apply other products on top of AG.

Once again many thanks to everyone for your replies. :thumb:


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