# Starting with Scholl Polishes, Pads and Backing Plates for Rotary



## gxtoast (Jan 11, 2013)

Hi Guys,

My first post on this great forum. Sorry, it's going to be a long one with a few questions.

After a lot of research for my first dive into machine correction, I've decided to go down the rotary path using Scholl polishes.

I recently purchased a white 2010 Ford Focus ST. This car has been undercover for most of its life and, even though its paint has never been polished or protected, the surface still gleams well. There is little to no RDS and there doesn't appear to be any marring from automated car wash machines. There are only swirls from hand washing.

Because I am starting out I want to be as efficient as possible with my spending and narrow my selection of correction products just to be effective for this car.

*Glossary*

*OFP* = Orange Foam Polishing pad;
http://spautopia.co.uk/paint-care/polishing-pads/scholl-concepts-orange-foam-pad-145mm

*OSP* = Orange Spider Polishing pad (only comes in 160mm);
http://spautopia.co.uk/paint-care/polishing-pads/scholl-concepts-orange-spider-pad

*OSW* = Orange Sandwich Waffle pad;
http://spautopia.co.uk/paint-care/polishing-pads/scholl-concepts-orange-sandwich-waffle-pad

*BSWP* = Black SOFTouch Waffle Polishing pad.
http://spautopia.co.uk/paint-care/polishing-pads/scholl-concepts-black-softouch-waffle-pad-145mm

Initially, I thought that Scholl S30 with a Scholl Orange Foam Polishing pad (OFP) would give enough cut and finish down to a great shine for the car.

However, people have talked about the Scholl OFP pad as being too hard and inflexible, and Scott Brown (Beau Techique) mentions that OFP pad isn't suited to provide that flawless finish with S40 (even though Scholl recommends this pad for S40). I was interested to hear this because, as a beginner, I tend to think that soft pads and backing plates will be safer to learn with.

In addition to the perception that the OFP pad isn't going to be desirable for me as a beginner, Russell Briggs (Reflectology) and Scott Brown, in both their Scholl whitepaper and on this forum, talked about the fantastic versatility of S17.

So, based on these tidbits of info, (and keeping in mind the best practice, particularly for beginners, of starting with the least aggressive polish and pad combo) I figured that a better place to start might be S17 on a Scholl Black SOFTouch Waffle Polishing pad (BSWP) and move up from there, if required.

S30 doesn't get much mention and it seems to be a bit redundant due to the versatility of S17 on a range of pads. Therefore, I was thinking that the only other polish I might require would be S40. To be used in case the S17 and BSWP pad combo doesn't jewel into a good enough finish. The only problem is that no one has talked about the best pad for finishing with S40. Perhaps the Scholl OSP pad (for large flat surfaces), or the OSW pad might be better pads? Or, maybe I have to go to another manufacturer's pads, such as the Lake Country Hydrotech pads?

If the BSWP pad isn't going to cut enough with S17 I guess the next move would be to go to an orange pad, but avoiding the harder OFP pad, which one is suitable? For small areas there is only one orange to choose from: the OSW pad. The OSP might be good, although or large areas. If the OSP pad is going to be really flexible and provide great softness, maybe I should just use my LC Kompressor pads, which look very similar to the Spider pads, until I need to buy new Scholls?

What are the differences between the three:


the OFP pad, the OSP pad, and the OSW pad?
Would the OSW give a finer result with S40?
Are the waffle pads Scholl's softest pads?
Do the waffle pads work okay over tight, angular surfaces (see the next paragraph)?

After selecting the softer pads for use with S17 I would, being a beginner, think to continue the trend and choose a soft backing plate, particularly for tight, curved, and angular surfaces.

In these tight areas, where marring is likely to be much less than out in the open, maybe I should be looking at just using a BSWP pad with S30 or a similarly soft pad with S40 (but what)? Not sure how the waffle would go on highly curved surfaces such as the backs of mirrors and on bonnet, side and rear moldings.

To me the waffle pads look like they would use more polish and potentially trap unused polish in the waffle gullies. Is this likely and is this one of the cons to using waffle pads? I've actually been looking for a softer version of the OFP pad and can only find this in the LC Hydrotech Crimson and Tangerine pads, based on other people's comments. How would these go with S40?

Looking at backing plates. I'm going to start with the CYC EP801 rotary, which comes with the 5" FlexEdge plate. This plate is reported to be quite flexible and am hoping this will be a great plate to use with the 145mm Scholl pads.

In addition to the FlexEdge plate, I was thinking of getting these: 

3M Perfect-It III 125mm x 25mm;
Scholl Blue 125mm medium;
Scholl Blue 75mm medium;
Scholl Black 150mm medium (I have two 7" LC Kompressor pads - orange and white).

Scott and Russell, if you could help out with these questions that would be awesome. Thank you.

Cheers,
Nick


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

You got some good Instincts.

to make it short,go for the s30 with the orange foam pad,youll get an amazing result.
and by the way,i got some really stunning result from s40+orange foam pad as a finishing combo.
i suggest you try and see for yourself.


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

Rotary or DA?

Edit

Rotary of course.

Go for S30 or S40 with a polishing pad such as Scholl orange, just like previous poster wrote.


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## TopSport+ (Jul 22, 2012)

S30 or S40 will be ok for you


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Due to Scholl pads being all closed cell structure they will never finish down 100% imo. To refine to the best possible finish I feel personally that a softer and far more forgiving pad is required.

S40 does load up an open cell pad fast and in return from that can cause holograms so Scholl have certainly aimed there polishes at the closed cell structure sides of things to get maximum efficiency from the polish and pad combination.

Like with anything, a lot of the time its down to understanding your products to a good degree and of course a little trial and error element..... How do we find these things out without trialling. Theory is good but practice is better.

S30 is within the same criteria as 3M extra fine, another I do not recommend and do not like using. S17+ offers a very flexable level of working levels used in conjunction with the correct pad and ensuring its neither over worked or underworked. Ive had many conversations with a number of pro and amateur detailers that have struggled grasping S17+ but once the technique is sorted, its a very stable go to polish.

If you were using Scholl orange sandwich pad with S17+ for instance and then wanted to refine I would suggest a further set with a finer open cell pad like 3M yellow with S17+ and then S40 on 3M blue.

This again is dependant on the paint type. Harder paints such as VAG or BMW etc respond better to closed cell pads then switching to open cell pads for the last 2 stages where as softer paint types such as Range Rover will respond totally differently. You can use open cell pads to gain a more felxable polishing method but they do get loaded quickly hence why I carry between 30 - 40 pads in my van.

The last Ford I worked on was this which did respond well to Scholl orange sandwich pad. No 2 paints are completly ever the same but you may find that S17+ on the orange pad and then S40 on the likes of an open cell pad finishing pad will work nicely.


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## gxtoast (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks, Scott.

Okay, so on a test patch I should start with the least aggressive pad, a 3M yellow with S17, and move up to the Scholl OFP if the yellow doesn't cut it. If I moved up to the OFP, I should then test S17 with the 3M yellow, again, before finishing with S40 on a 3M blue. Once I have confirmed in the test whether the paint requires a two or three stage finish, I can continue to do the rest of the car. Is that correct?

I'm surprised that on relatively good paint I may need three stages to complete. Especially that two of the stages use S17. Is the second stage of S17 on the 3M yellow intended to continue the cutting phase of the first stage, or is it used to begin a finishing phase that ends with the third stage of S40 on the 3M blue?

My understanding is that the 3M pads are waffles, is that correct? Are you using 3M because they are closed-cell pads? And, does this mean that the soft Scholl waffles are not closed-cell? Or, are you using the 3M pads because you have found them to be better in your testing?

What would you say about using the LC Kompressor pads? Do they perform in the same way as the Scholl Spider Polishing pads?

I think this is important to understand so that as I perform the physical correction I can better relate to what I see.

Thanks for the Fiesta link. Really great documentation.

Cheers,
Nick


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Beau Technique said:


> Due to Scholl pads being all closed cell structure they will never finish down 100% imo. To refine to the best possible finish I feel personally that a softer and far more forgiving pad is required.


While I understand your thoughts here, it is important to remember that open cell pads do tend to have a little bit of their own cut due to the foam cell structure, whereas closed cell pads do not have their own cut, the stiffness puts increased pressure on the abrasives... but once the abrasives have broken down, you will still have the slight cut of an open cell pad and no cut of the closed cell pad. The ones designed for finishing this is not a problem, and the cutting closed cell pads are not forgiving and their stiffness gives the impression of aggression, but the pad itself has no additional cut. Comparing Hexlogic orange and yellow demonstrates this neatly - the yellow pad feels softer, but is actually more aggressive, while the stiffer orange pad (designed for cutting) is less aggressive and can be finished down with because it does not have its own cut.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Nick.

The 3M pads ( bar the green cutting pad ) are as you say. waffle in style but a lot forgiving than most polishing pads. These are open cell which create less panel temperatures by absorbing and aerating through the polishing stage rather than the closed cell pads which keep the temperature to the upper most surface thus creating a slight extra level of cut or optimising the cut from the polish by keeping it at its upper most surface. I use 3M pads a lot and they fit within how I work. The orange pad will not finish down perfectly and on certain paint types, the pad can leave its own footprint. Refining S17+ is relatively straight forward but when using more sterner pad of a closed cell structure, generally I have found the footprint will not refine of its own accord with a dedicated soft finishing pad and fine finishing polish. The stage with 3M yellow and S17+ is purely to further refine after the orange pad.

I cannot comment fully on the Lake Country kompressor pads as I have not given them enough test run to make a comparative suggestion.

The black waffle from Scholl is again, a closed cell pad and can be used to further refine S17+ with S17+ but does not fully refine to a sharp finish imo. Using the black waffle with S40 or any other finishing polish variant will result in poor finish.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Dave KG said:


> While I understand your thoughts here, it is important to remember that open cell pads do tend to have a little bit of their own cut due to the foam cell structure, whereas closed cell pads do not have their own cut, the stiffness puts increased pressure on the abrasives... but once the abrasives have broken down, you will still have the slight cut of an open cell pad and no cut of the closed cell pad. The ones designed for finishing this is not a problem, and the cutting closed cell pads are not forgiving and their stiffness gives the impression of aggression, but the pad itself has no additional cut. Comparing Hexlogic orange and yellow demonstrates this neatly - the yellow pad feels softer, but is actually more aggressive, while the stiffer orange pad (designed for cutting) is less aggressive and can be finished down with because it does not have its own cut.


I understand Dave. My thoughts will always be that first initial hit with closed cell will always be far more aggressive than any other set after pad is primed and loaded marginally. My thoughts and opinion with this is more referring to the Scholl pads and 3M pads.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Certainly, and an open cell finishing pad can still be made to finish down beautifully as the 3M pads demonstrate - they were often my finishing pad of choice. The aggression, imo, of a closed cell pad came from its stiffness and the pressure this could put on the abrasives to work them... this would cause issues with brittle abrasives as they could shatter before actually doing any serious cutting (like the old Menz PO91L). 

The spider pads (and Kompressor which work on a very similar theory) are very clever though - under pressure, the flaps "go flat" keeping the abrasive in contact with the paint under pressure, giving a high level of cut. Reduced pressure, the flaps would "open up" to allow the abrasives into them and away from the paint surface, reducing the applied cut and allowing finishing. Neat idea, works in practice.


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## gxtoast (Jan 11, 2013)

Dave and Scott, if the Scholl stuff had a longer working time like Menzerna would we see a longer jeweling time and therefore better finishing on closed cell pads?

Why didn't Scholl get their pads right for finishing? It is strange, although not unusual from what I've read, that another manufacturer's pads are required to get the best result from Scholl polishes. I guess this isn't unique to Scholl, either.

The shopping list from this discussion is that I'll initially order Scholl S17+ and S40, as well as three OFP pads, three 3M blues, and three 3M yellows, each type in both 145/150mm and 75mm sizes. I'll keep the Kompressors for testing.

Thanks guys for your help. Scott, do you used a compressed ZPM, or is your method completely different?


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

No it is certainly not unique to Scholl, Menzerna's pads were never great in my opinion and I never used them for finishing but then the pads may have been designed with specific paints in mind. The spider pads you certainly can finish down with, the key for me (as with the Kompressor pads) was pressure - light pressure at the end of the set to ensure that the abrasives are pulled into the pad. This gives you your jewelling time as you are working mainly the lubricant and fine abrasives to get the best out of the clarity of the finish.

Jewelling, for me, is the use of the fine abrasives left after diminishing with lubricants and the pad to get the best possible clarity... if the product breaks down quickly, then you get to your jewelling much more quickly. That said, jewelling with a non-dimishing polish like Megs #205 is even better as the abrasives don't break down so you control the cut with pressure (like the spider pads), and can increase set length with a spritz of water.


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## gxtoast (Jan 11, 2013)

Thank you, Dave. Are you using the Megs NDA more often these days?


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## gxtoast (Jan 11, 2013)

Scott, if the orange foam pad was going to be too aggressive with S17 on the focus should I test with the 3M pads?


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

gxtoast said:


> Scott, if the orange foam pad was going to be too aggressive with S17 on the focus should I test with the 3M pads?


Yes. Honestly, don't do this any harder since I presume you are new at this. I would go for a medium polishing pad (don't matter if its made by 3M, Scholl, Lake Country) and with either S40, S30 or S17.

Do a test spot with, for example, S17 and with a pad as above. If you are happy, continue with the rest of the car. If you are not satisfied, use another combination.
I have used S17 with a finishing pad and it cleared up the paint good and amped up the gloss very good on a white pearl Lexus.

Since you are new at this and when the car is white, I doubt you will see a big difference in terms of gloss if you are using S17,S30 or S40.


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## MonkeyP (Jul 7, 2012)

I used S17+ on a yellow 3M pad and i found it worked down really well. was going to use S40 to refine it even more but was so happy with the results that i didnt think that i needed to.

I am a beginner so my eye isn't as good as the experts but that single stage correction made a world of difference!


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## gxtoast (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks guys.

Would you recommend using the 80mm 3M pads for tight spots? Do the waffles go okay on the backs of mirrors and other curvy angular surfaces?


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

gxtoast said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> Would you recommend using the 80mm 3M pads for tight spots? Do the waffles go okay on the backs of mirrors and other curvy angular surfaces?


Yes. Do all the small areas where you cant reach with a spot pad.


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## gxtoast (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks, guys. I just placed my order for Scholls polishes, Scholls pads, 3m pads and a couple of Hex Logic pads:

1 x CleanYouCar - EP801 Compact Rotary Polisher
1 x 3M Perfect-it III Rotary Backing Plate 125mm M14
1 x Disposable Nitrile Gloves - Pkg/100
2 x CarPro Eraser - Intense Oil and Polish Cleanser (600ml)
3 x Scholl Concepts Orange Foam Polishing Pad (85mm)
3 x Scholl Concepts Orange Foam Polishing Pad (145mm)
2 x Valet Pro - Inch Round Wheel Brush
1 x Gtechniq - C4 Permanent Trim Restorer
1 x Menzerna - 75mm Rotary Backing Plate
3 x 3M Perfect-it III Polishing Pad Yellow 150mm
3 x 3M Perfect-it III Ultrafina SE Blue High Gloss Pad 150mm
1 x Chemical Guys - Micro-Cotton Microfibres (Pkg 3)
1 x Chemical Guys - Microfibre WASH+
3 x 3M Perfect-it III Polishing Pad Yellow 80mm
3 x 3M Perfect-it III Ultrafina SE Blue High Gloss Pad 80mm
1 x Microfibre Wash Sponge
1 x Chemical Guys - Wooly Mammoth Drying Towel
1 x CarPro - TRIX Iron and Tar Remover (600ml)
1 x Gtechniq - Glass Sealant Kit (G4, G2 and G1)
1 x Scholl Concepts - S40 Anti Swirl 250ml
1 x Scholl Concepts - S17+ Compound 1 litre
1 x Autoglym Perfect Palm - Red
1 x Chemical Guys - White 5.5" Hex-Logic Pad
1 x Chemical Guys - White 4" Hex-Logic Pad

I figured this would be a good starter and last me a fair bit. One of the guys here in Oz really likes the Xpert polishes, so might get some of that to try out as well. I wanted to get some really soft closed-cell pads, so the CG white Hex Logics seemed to fit the bill.

Cheers,
Nick


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

:thumb:Great thread, some gold advise in here!:thumb:


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

gxtoast said:


> Scott, if the orange foam pad was going to be too aggressive with S17 on the focus should I test with the 3M pads?


Many find there own combinations for certain aspects or to achieve certain levels of finish. The 3M pads ( bar green cutting ) are ll relatively forgiving due to the soft nature of the foam. Like with anything to do with machine polishing, start at the bottom. Lesser aggressive polish and pad combination and work up as you go on until the desired effect is achieved but before you begin, be realistic in your expectations. A recent write up in teh studio points this out very well. Some defects are too deep to remove fully or safely so my old analogy "Your at war.... every so often you have to leave a few men behind to save the platoon" works" comes in very useful.

So to start. Softer pad and S40 for instance. Step up pad to aid cut if needed. If that fails, step up polish and so on.


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

Great thread. I have so many questions on whether I should pick up all of Scholl pads or all of Hex pads as I want to try the ever so versatile S17 on several paints and several different levels of defects as a one stepper.

I am trying to read more and ask less questions at this time. My heart tells me to go with Scholl pads as they know best what works better with the polishes they created but my mind tells me to go with the Hex pads as they are so versatile and will work well with polishes from Scholl, Menzerna, Meguiar's and Optimum. I don't know if Scholl pads work with polishes from other brands.

Some excellent insights in this thread, thanks all.


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

I ordered S17 and the Orange Foam Pad to work on my blue fiat that has wash marring, swirls and RDS. Is my pad choice fine? For more aggressive pads, I have CG Hex a Yellow Cutting pad and Optimum MF Cutting pad. Which one can I use with S17 if the Scholl Orange pad fails?


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

Bump! Desperado.


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

Flakey said:


> I ordered S17 and the Orange Foam Pad to work on my blue fiat that has wash marring, swirls and RDS. Is my pad choice fine? For more aggressive pads, I have CG Hex a Yellow Cutting pad and Optimum MF Cutting pad. Which one can I use with S17 if the Scholl Orange pad fails?


Both pads.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

Flakey said:


> I ordered S17 and the Orange Foam Pad to work on my blue fiat that has wash marring, swirls and RDS. Is my pad choice fine? For more aggressive pads, I have CG Hex a Yellow Cutting pad and Optimum MF Cutting pad. Which one can I use with S17 if the Scholl Orange pad fails?


In the Future, get the Buff and Shine MF pads. Best MF pads on the market. Combine that with SMAT Polish and you can forget any "heavy cut" pads.


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

Sheep said:


> In the Future, get the Buff and Shine MF pads. Best MF pads on the market. Combine that with SMAT Polish and you can forget any "heavy cut" pads.


And I also like the buff and shine foam pads, but I guess that they are also manufacturing the pads for Chemical guys.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

Porta said:


> And I also like the buff and shine foam pads, but I guess that they are also manufacturing the pads for Chemical guys.


They may be, but if they are, getting Buff and Shine versions is cheaper. Chemical guys has to pay for their marketing on top I guess. I might drop the hammer on some Buff and Shine foam pads, simply because of price and the quality of the MF ones.


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

Sheep said:


> In the Future, get the Buff and Shine MF pads. Best MF pads on the market. Combine that with SMAT Polish and you can forget any "heavy cut" pads.


Thanks. But I dont think Scholl polishes are SMAT, I think they are DAT.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

Flakey said:


> Thanks. But I dont think Scholl polishes are SMAT, I think they are DAT.


I know they're not. I'm saying forget DAT for Heavy Cutting in general. SMAT and MF is faster and finishes WAY better (especially if you have a DA).


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

Sheep said:


> I know they're not. I'm saying forget DAT for Heavy Cutting in general. SMAT and MF is faster and finishes WAY better (especially if you have a DA).


Thanks for the response but we seem to be going around in circles.

This thread is about Scholl polishes and pads and so are my questions. I prefer DAT to SMAT and Scholl to Meg's. Also, I have a rotary and do not have a DA.

The reason I am so persistent in my Scholl quest is because I am convinced they are generations ahead of SMAT and everything else out there.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

Flakey said:


> Thanks for the response but we seem to be going around in circles.
> 
> This thread is about Scholl polishes and pads and so are my questions. I prefer DAT to SMAT and Scholl to Meg's. Also, I have a rotary and do not have a DA.
> 
> The reason I am so persistent in my Scholl quest is because I am convinced they are generations ahead of SMAT and everything else out there.


A circle drawn by you, I simply made a pad recommendation. I stated that SMAT polishes are very effective and finish better then any DAT polish given the amount of cut. I never said Scholl is SMAT (They don't even sell them in Canada).

Being convinced without the experience is detrimental to growth. I would try some Megs polishes (mainly UC, M105, M205) before you write them off. Even an old #2 Fine Cut Cleaner is surprisingly good, and in my recent trials my favorite 1 step polish.

EDIT: So Scholl S0, S3 and S30+ polishes are now available. S30+ looks like a nice 1 step product. One day I'll try it, I have some polishes to burn through ATM.


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

Sheep said:


> A circle drawn by you, I simply made a pad recommendation. I stated that SMAT polishes are very effective and finish better then any DAT polish given the amount of cut. I never said Scholl is SMAT (They don't even sell them in Canada).
> 
> Being convinced without the experience is detrimental to growth. I would try some Megs polishes (mainly UC, M105, M205) before you write them off. Even an old #2 Fine Cut Cleaner is surprisingly good, and in my recent trials my favorite 1 step polish.
> 
> EDIT: So Scholl S0, S3 and S30+ polishes are now available. S30+ looks like a nice 1 step product. One day I'll try it, I have some polishes to burn through ATM.


You got me wrong mate. I started off with M105/205 which are SMAT polishes. Then I tried optimum hyper twins, I think those are SMAT too. Now I have S17 sitting with me to go up next. Just that all I have read on forums worldwide, some of the best known names in US like Richy and CEEDOG and a few in UK lately swear by Scholl polishes. All of them have extensively worked with Meg's and Menzerna for years but they insist that Scholl is better. So just trying to get to the bottom of that. I like the idea of diminishing abrasives as even if you over work them, you won't remove more clear coat as compared to over working a 105 maybe. I am not after Meg's or Scholl to be honest but one technology vs the other. Maybe I have got it all wrong, hence so many questions. Never wrote off Meg's at all. Looking forward to the M101 that Gary Dean called " If Jesus was a compound, it would be Meg's 101".

Would like to read about your experience with the Scholl polishes and any thoughts you may have on how are they different from Meg's.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

This has been a very helpfull and interesting read for me as I too will be trying some scholl products on my focus st. Lots of helpfull information here so thanks.
I am opting for scholl s20 to start with hopefully it will be a good single stage polish for me to start with.
Thanks again


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

deegan1979 said:


> This has been a very helpfull and interesting read for me as I too will be trying some scholl products on my focus st. Lots of helpfull information here so thanks.
> I am opting for scholl s20 to start with hopefully it will be a good single stage polish for me to start with.
> Thanks again


Could you keep us posted on the choice of polishes and pads and how they work out for you? I am totally confused with Scholl right now as I got their Black Soft Touch Finishing pad to use with the Menzerna SF4500 (The only finishing polish I have) but if you read their site, They ask not to use that pad with their S40 finishing polish. I think unlike most finishing pads, Scholl Finishing pad is an open cell pad and AFAIK you should always finish with a closed cell pad. Not the easiest brand to work with.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Flakey said:


> Could you keep us posted on the choice of polishes and pads and how they work out for you? I am totally confused with Scholl right now as I got their Black Soft Touch Finishing pad to use with the Menzerna SF4500 (The only finishing polish I have) but if you read their site, They ask not to use that pad with their S40 finishing polish. I think unlike most finishing pads, Scholl Finishing pad is an open cell pad and AFAIK you should always finish with a closed cell pad. Not the easiest brand to work with.


I certainly will, although im not very knowledgeable. 
I decided to try s20 bases on a recommendation from steampunk, over the years ive found his advice to be spot on.
I will only be using hexlogic and 3m pads with it on the rotary.


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

deegan1979 said:


> I certainly will, although im not very knowledgeable.
> I decided to try s20 bases on a recommendation from steampunk, over the years ive found his advice to be spot on.
> I will only be using hexlogic and 3m pads with it on the rotary.


I would be keen to see some pictures of the S20 on the rotary. I have S17 which is slightly more aggressive than S20 but I am yet to try it out. I have some Hex pads but I will try S17 on the Scholl Orange Foam pad to begin with.


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

deegan1979 said:


> I certainly will, although im not very knowledgeable.
> I decided to try s20 bases on a recommendation from steampunk, over the years ive found his advice to be spot on.
> I will only be using hexlogic and 3m pads with it on the rotary.


Since S20 is my fav polish and im working with that a bit..
i really recommand that you work the s20 with scholls foam pads[purple&orange are brilliant],especially if you work with a rotary.
you wont get the same outcome with 3m pads,im not even talkinging about hexlogics..


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

ronwash said:


> Since S20 is my fav polish and im working with that a bit..
> i really recommand that you work the s20 with scholls foam pads[purple&orange are brilliant],especially if you work with a rotary.
> you wont get the same outcome with 3m pads,im not even talkinging about hexlogics..


S20 is your favorite polish because it has a very low cut or because you are able to finish in a single step without having to use a finishing polish?

And wouldn't you get the same results from other pads as long as they are closed cell, just like Scholl purple/blue/orange foam pads?

I am very interested in this brand, hence the questions.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Flakey said:


> S20 is your favorite polish because it has a very low cut or because you are able to finish in a single step without having to use a finishing polish?
> 
> And wouldn't you get the same results from other pads as long as they are closed cell, just like Scholl purple/blue/orange foam pads?
> 
> I am very interested in this brand, hence the questions.


Im interested in this too


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

Flakey said:


> S20 is your favorite polish because it has a very low cut or because you are able to finish in a single step without having to use a finishing polish?
> 
> And wouldn't you get the same results from other pads as long as they are closed cell, just like Scholl purple/blue/orange foam pads?
> 
> I am very interested in this brand, hence the questions.


S20 is a true one step polish,dont disparage its correction/cutting abilities[with a rotary],with the right pad it can cut very well.
What i love about it is its extremely flexible,it can "handle" almost every polishing work without the use for 3-4 types/cutting levels of polish,the result is very quik and you feel the compound working on the paint,just enough to know how to handle it.
The finish from that is like no other,Including some "fantastic" finishing polish.
Amazing clear gloss.
As for the pads,its all from experience with all kind of pads,closed cell 
included.
Scholl works best within the system.
So..what you get is a very versatile,fast acting compound,that perform amazingly well..whats not to like?.


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

Thanks. I didn't really notice S20, it's probably new. On the Spautopia website, I figured S17 is the least aggressive as S30/40 are just finishing polishes. S20 is even labelled differently so I thought its something for body shops or something. Maybe I will try S20 next.


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## deegan1979 (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks for the info ron.
Looks like ill need more pads then, bummer as my 3m's are new and ive got so many hex pads


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

deegan1979 said:


> Thanks for the info ron.
> Looks like ill need more pads then, bummer as my 3m's are new and ive got so many hex pads


Haha same here, I just ordered all the hex pads on Amazon a bit ago and now I am on Spautopia trying to order the Blue and orange foam pads.


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

Flakey said:


> Thanks. I didn't really notice S20, it's probably new. On the Spautopia website, I figured S17 is the least aggressive as S30/40 are just finishing polishes. S20 is even labelled differently so I thought its something for body shops or something. Maybe I will try S20 next.


S30 is certainly not a finishing polish although it can finish really nice.
I dont like s17,you can use s3 with lets say,orange foam pad,youll get the cutting action that you need[i dont know your cars paint condition],and it will get a crisp finish,ready for lsp even!.
I do suggest you try S20 when you can.


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

ronwash said:


> S30 is certainly not a finishing polish although it can finish really nice.
> I dont like s17,you can use s3 with lets say,orange foam pad,youll get the cutting action that you need[i dont know your cars paint condition],and it will get a crisp finish,ready for lsp even!.
> I do suggest you try S20 when you can.


Ron - very helpful responses on Scholl products, Thank you. I was looking for someone like you who has enough working knowledge of their products.

I thought S17 has a little less cut than S3 and a little more than S20. But more or less all are similar in how they work and finish. Isn't that correct?

Why is S30 not a finishing polish, it barely has any cut. I thought S30 is a finishing polish and S40 is a jeweling polish, although I find both to be rather redundant considering all of their compounds finish as a single stepper (S3, S17, S20).

Do you know why their Black Soft touch finishing pad is not recommended with the S40 and S30? Is it by any chance an open cell pad, maybe that's why? I picked up the black pad thinking it is like any other black finishing pad from Hex Logic or Lake Country and would work with the finishing polishes I have (Menzerna SF4500, Meg's 205), but I am not able to get a good finish with this pad and finishing polishes. Any insights would be really helpful.

My paint is medium hard Fiat paint in dark blue metallic. It has minor swirls, scratches and wash marring but I want to take the less aggressive approach so have decided to stay away from products like S3 Gold, Meg's 105, Menzerna FG400 and try medium cut compounds instead to correct once and then maintain with mild polishes like S30, Menzerna SF4500 etc. I used Optimum Hyper compound on a yellow hex pad once on a panel but found it to be too aggressive considering I do not have serious paint defects.


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

S17 got some thrust,S3 is a gentle beast as i see it.
The big different is how they get their work done on the paint.
S3 is much more varied,i worked with it on a paint that needed some big time correction,ended up with it,only changed the pad to a brilliant finish.
You cant do that with s17 in most cases,its a very narrow working range compound,not suited to work with every paint type/condition,its not as versatile as s3 and most of scholls compounds,still,i had a few cars i went with that[s17] and got some very good result.
By the way s3 can dust quite "nicely",but with the right technique you can keep it to minimum.
I usually use s30 as a light correction[not on hard paint] polish,marring,swirls,if its not too bad,patch up orange/purple pad,i sometimes going with that as a single stage polishing,sometimes im jeweling with s40&orange foam pad OR permanon super gloss,which is a true jeweling compound and a finishing pad.
S40 is king of enigma,i know not all pepole like it,i got some really stunning result with that,but less on hard paint,i treat it as a finishing polish at most times.
I got some good result with menzerna RD [4500] and lakecountry HT red pad[i forgot the name]on a rotary,i think on your kind on paint&paint correction needed,it should provide a fantastic finish to the paint.
take the less aggressive approach,thats the right way,work the compounds out to create your own technique for MAX performance,im sure youll get it right.


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## Flakey (May 5, 2013)

Thanks a lot Ron, very helpful. I returned the s17 and asked them to send me some S20 after reading your posts. I have the Scholl orange foam pad, be ed to buy the blue and purple but not sure if those are good or should I buy LC HT pads for the rotary instead. Any thoughts? I wasn't very impressed with their orange pad as for a finishing pad!Mai found it to be rather coarse.


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

Flakey said:


> Thanks a lot Ron, very helpful. I returned the s17 and asked them to send me some S20 after reading your posts. I have the Scholl orange foam pad, be ed to buy the blue and purple but not sure if those are good or should I buy LC HT pads for the rotary instead. Any thoughts? I wasn't very impressed with their orange pad as for a finishing pad!Mai found it to be rather coarse.


Mate,Get the purple foam pad,its a must,the blue is rubbish,get the Spider Sandwich Pad for an agressive cutting action instead of the blue foam.
Leave the LC HT pads for working with menzerna[if you like].
good call on the change of s20 instead of s17.
when working with the orange pad as a final stage dont apply pressure atall,because the orange pad built to cut[lightly] when pressure applied&working on a rotary.
thats why you didnt get a brilliant finish.
work on 900RPM +- with no pressure ATALL.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

Flakey said:


> You got me wrong mate. I started off with M105/205 which are SMAT polishes. Then I tried optimum hyper twins, I think those are SMAT too. Now I have S17 sitting with me to go up next. Just that all I have read on forums worldwide, some of the best known names in US like Richy and CEEDOG and a few in UK lately swear by Scholl polishes. All of them have extensively worked with Meg's and Menzerna for years but they insist that Scholl is better. So just trying to get to the bottom of that. I like the idea of diminishing abrasives as even if you over work them, you won't remove more clear coat as compared to over working a 105 maybe. I am not after Meg's or Scholl to be honest but one technology vs the other. Maybe I have got it all wrong, hence so many questions. Never wrote off Meg's at all. Looking forward to the M101 that Gary Dean called " If Jesus was a compound, it would be Meg's 101".
> 
> Would like to read about your experience with the Scholl polishes and any thoughts you may have on how are they different from Meg's.


The concept of SMAT is far less scary if you do it right. If you tried M105 on foam pads you won't have a very good idea of it's complete performance. On MF pads (Buff and Shine if possible) it's insane. I've removed marks that would catch a finger nail in 2 hits, and it finished perfectly. Less then 3 minutes of polishing to boot. The fact that I can cut hard and finish as SOON as I need to is what I like. I want my polish working by my Schedule, not the other way around. I haven't had any experience with Scholl (Again, not much around at the moment), but I will try it one day. I also want to try M101, but it's ALWAYS sold out. No fair.


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