# Truckers again - rant!



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Today I drove Elgin to Perth and back via the A9, not a quick route at the best of times, but made particularly bad by supermarket delivery trucks crawling at 40mph on this already dangerous road.

Asda, Tesco, Morrisons, M&S & Christian Salveson, I hate you all! I was in turn stuck behind trucks operated by or on behalf of all of you today, all crawling at 40mph, exhibiting bad and totally inconsiderate driving and on no case did they pull over to allow tale-backs to clear. In each case these drivers caused dangerous overtaking, the taking of unnecessary risks, and general impatience.

I only drive the A9 occasionally thank goodness - it's an appalling road made worse by the lack of consideration of these a******s and their operators.

How many accidents do they cause in a year resulting in how many deaths and injuries?

Bloody appalling!

I would like to cogratulate one most considerate driver who did pull in to allow traffic to clear ... ... ... which operator? (see below) ... ... ...

Eddie Stobart


----------



## ksm1985 (Dec 27, 2008)

dangerous road


----------



## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Sounds like you need a motorbike....








Runs and hides........
:thumb:


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

No Cuey that I certainly don't - never did, never will.


----------



## 47p2 (Jun 17, 2007)

The speed limit for HGV's on single carriageways is 40mph. I know it's inconvenient when stuck behind them but the law's the law. HGV companies do have to check drivers tachograph charts to ensure they are obeying the speed limits.


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

They could at least pull over, but they don't! I was about the tenth vehicle in a long queue behind a Tesco truck this morning - I'm guessing there were maybe 40-50+ vehicles stuck behind him and he made no attempt whatsoever to pull over passing umpteen lay-bys before the first fifteen or so vehicles finally got past him on a pitifully short stretch of dual-carriageway, the majority were still stuck behind him.


----------



## G51 NAV (Jan 14, 2007)

I feel your pain.
My biggest rant with them is when they're driving two-abreast on a three-lane motorway, one crawling past the other maybe 1mph more


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Hah - three lane, I wish rofl

Not north of the Scottish Central Belt - there is little enough dual carriageway, I'm not sure what proportion of the A9 is dual north of Perth, but probably not more than 10%.


----------



## Captain Pugwash (Mar 23, 2011)

only problem with pulling over is they would no doubt have to do that every few miles, then when they are in the lay by would you let the lorry out if you seen it sitting with is indicator on ?? and its not like a car that you can accelerate and pull out...does take quiet some time to get up to 40mph 

they are also only allowed to drive for a certain amount of time and keep stopping to let cars past would mean they may not be able to get home.


----------



## rapala (Jan 18, 2007)

do you like to eat ? how do you think the food gets to the shops ? if they pulled over every 10 mins to let traffic pass there would be no food in the shops.


----------



## daz1972 (Dec 4, 2009)

Maybe car drivers should remember some of the terrible driving hgv drivers have to put up with, been cut up by the clown in the fast lane who decides to wait untill last minute before they want to leave a motorway despite signs 1-2 mile prior, warning them of the junction approaching!


----------



## Maxtor (Feb 23, 2007)

They were probably on the way to stock up the supermarket that you shop at.

These guys don't travel at that speed to annoy folk fella, they do it because 44 tonne takes a lot of stopping.

If you bought it, a truck brought it.


Have a good evening.


Maxtor.


----------



## daz1972 (Dec 4, 2009)

Well said Maxtor:thumb: These people need to spend a day out in a truck to see what we have to put up with!


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

So you guys sticking up for the truckers are quite happy to sit at forty mph behind the Tesco/M&S/Asda/Morrison trucks for long (i.e. thirty mile) stretches of single carriageway road with little or no chance of getting past - no, I guess you aren't.

Have you driven the A9 stuck behind truck after truck, I'm guessing not. BTW the worst cases are actually the empty trucks heading south as those delivering the food etc. north, travel up in the early hours.

Remember we don't have the fecking fast lanes here in the north because the Government won't bother its backside to fund the roads north of the central belt.

Suggest you try it some time.


----------



## G51 NAV (Jan 14, 2007)

We did have a solution to this problem once upon a time.
It was called 'a railway network'.
I don't know about the higher reaches of Scotland, but certainly in England, in the 1960s Doctor Beeching had tons of branch-lines tore up and moved local freight to the roads.
And this is the result. Small roads clogged with dozens of trucks and lorries doing a job which one train used to do.
What a clever chap.


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Scotland only has two railway lines serving the north - the Highland route up the middle (single track much of the way) and the East Coast line to Aberdeen and then north-west to Inverness. Most branch lines were as you say ripped up thanks to Dr Beeching. 

Safeway were delivering stock to their northern stores via rail transport prior to the Morrison's take-over, but I think that's fallen by the wayside. Our rail network is grossly underutilised in my opinion.


----------



## Captain Pugwash (Mar 23, 2011)

been up and down the A9 quite a few times, and though the last time was about a year ago. they did have duel carriageways at quite a few sections of it...so yes its frustrating being behind a lorry but soon enough you will get past it


----------



## raitkens83 (Jun 7, 2009)

travel the A9 quite regular, Its a nightmare of a road with so many fatalities mostly from dodgy overtaking. Theres hardly any sections for overtaking either.


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Other than the approaches to Perth and Inverness, the only serious length of dual carriageway is actually the section over the Drumochter Summit which is maybe 10 miles in length, otherwise it's one/two mile stretches, some too short to even clear the tale-backs behind single trucks. On the Aviemore-Perth stretch I drove in both directions today, there is only one 2-mile stretch being currently improved - I don't think you truck-fans in the south would put up with it happily.


----------



## daz1972 (Dec 4, 2009)

Been on the A9 a number of times both in my car and in my fecking Asda truck!! the fact is that it is very rare for a truck to be travelling empty usually loaded with pallets, recyclable rubbish etc if not it's intended load of food and other goods. Better get used to it the only way goods are there for you to buy from you supermarket/shops as i'm sure you do is for a truck to deliver them and this will always be the case.


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

OK, so they're not traveling south empty but my point remains the same, the problem is worst with the return journey south. The fact of the matter is thousands of cars every day are stuck behind slow moving trucks owing to the inadequate roads north of Perth. This is because northern Scottish roads are ignored both by the Mickey Mouse politicians at Holyrood and the Government in Westminster. These slow moving trucks coupled with inadequate roads are causing umpteen fatalities no matter how much some posters thing we ought to be grateful for the trucker's deliveries.


----------



## mdm0197 (Apr 19, 2011)

Not as bad as the tractors down here in cornwall! Slow everybody down, and they usually manage to cover the front of your car in splats various 'revolting' substances when your behind them... and its the way they ONLY come out in rush hour!


----------



## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

No matter what side of the fence you sit on (car drivers v truck drivers), the A9 is a disgrace to our road network.

It should have been dualled twenty years ago.



mdm0197 said:


> Not as bad as the tractors down here in cornwall! Slow everybody down, and they usually manage to cover the front of your car in splats various 'revolting' substances when your behind them... and its the way they ONLY come out in rush hour!


Yeah, we have tractors too!


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

mdm0197 said:


> Not as bad as the tractors down here in cornwall! Slow everybody down, and they usually manage to cover the front of your car in splats various 'revolting' substances when your behind them... and its the way they ONLY come out in rush hour!


Don't get me started on tractors 



Leodhasach said:


> No matter what side of the fence you sit on (car drivers v truck drivers), the A9 is a disgrace to our road network.
> 
> It should have been dualled twenty years ago.


Hear hear :thumb:


----------



## 47p2 (Jun 17, 2007)

I drove a 44 tonne truck (British weight limit is 40 tonnes but special 44 tonne concession for EU loads that come through the Channel Tunnel) up and down the A9 for many years, sometimes 6 days a week. I know the road like the back of my hand and the number of knob-ends in cars who were too impatient to wait until the road ahead was clear before passing makes me wonder if they had a death wish. I've seen the emergency services shovelling body parts off the road and it's not a nice thing to see, I've also seen drivers killed by running into deer and sheep, all because they were travelling too fast on what is one of Britain's worst stretches of road. 

The biggest concern is when holiday makers from countries that drive on the opposite side from the UK travel this route, they often come out of a side road and forget to keep left, I remember well the Ford Galaxy where a whole family of 5 were wiped out because they forgot to keep left. Sadly they not only wiped out themselves but the car they collided with suffered two fatalities 

To the op, slow down, the A9 is not a road for speed and the police have hide outs where they monitor from, a case of they can see you but you won't see them until the blue light is flashing in your rear view mirror. It's not a race track and it will bite you on the bum if you treat it like one


----------



## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

^ I for one don't dispute any of that, but just think how much quicker and less stressful (and therefore, safer) it would be if it were all dual-carriageway...


----------



## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Sorry, I don't get it, I'm looking at the a9 and all I see is a long fairly straight nsl road with what would appears to be great visibility?

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&s...=12,328.6,,0,-0.18&saddr=aviemore&daddr=perth

Probably would be safer if it was dual carriageway but I don't see how you can blame HGV's for causing poor overtaking.


----------



## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

DW58 said:


> So you guys sticking up for the truckers are quite happy to sit at forty mph behind the Tesco/M&S/Asda/Morrison trucks for long


I do it nearly everyday, it's called the M11. Yes, it can be a right PITA, but just drop back so you can see his mirrors, so he knows you're there, put the radio on, and chill.

Those truckers are on a tight schedule, they don't like going at a snails pace anymore than you do.


----------



## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

RisingPower said:


> appears to be great visibility?


Unfortunately not, much of it consists of curves that don't quite have enough visibility for a safe overtake, but are gentle enough to give people the illusion that they can. The abundance of roadside trees and bushes in places doesn't help.

Next thing you know, it's another family killed in a head-on smash 

Drive it and you'll see what I mean. Oh, and having looked at your link, it goes all the way to Wick if I remember rightly, not Aviemore.


----------



## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Leodhasach said:


> Unfortunately not, much of it consists of curves that don't quite have enough visibility for a safe overtake, but are gentle enough to give people the illusion that they can. The abundance of roadside trees and bushes in places doesn't help.
> 
> Next thing you know, it's another family killed in a head-on smash
> 
> Drive it and you'll see what I mean.


Hmm, I'd have to see it but it looks gorgeous. Much prefer the looks of that to the crappy a11 here.

Must admit, it does look like you can overtake on the a11 easily too, but all it takes is one person refusing to safely overtake a lorry to get a nice big jam.


----------



## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

RisingPower said:


> Hmm, I'd have to see it but it looks gorgeous. Much prefer the looks of that to the crappy a11 here.
> 
> Must admit, it does look like you can overtake on the a11 easily too, but all it takes is one person refusing to safely overtake a lorry to get a nice big jam.


Oh don't get me wrong, it can be lovely on a nice day  But the A82 is better :thumb:

Yes, the A9 has that problem quite often, as well as the opposite problem of people overtaking when circumstances say they should stay put!

I do tend to just take the 'relax and get there ten minutes later' approach (says the 21 y/o modified hatchback driver), but even then I've had close calls on that road because of the stupidity and ignorance of other road users :doublesho


----------



## David (Apr 6, 2006)

its financially not viable for a truck to stop to let greeting faced drivers passed all the way up these dual carriageways

they are by law, told to drive at that speed, the tachograph will tell their employers of their speed and if pulled over the police can also check them.

also, for an HGV to come to a complete stop would actually cause more tail backs as when they are eventually allowed back onto the dual carriage way it will take them a good minute to get to the proper speed if they have a full load in the back.


----------



## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

^ Hence why the dual carriageway would be the best (but unfortunately, probably unlikely) solution.


----------



## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

I'm sorry but DW58 is a bit out of order in my opinion here. I have driven that road many times.
The speed limit for lorries on that stretch is 40mph. 
There is a lot more dual carriagway on the A9 north of Perth than you are suggesting.
There's plenty of overtaking opportunities (depending on traffic coming the other way of course).
If you can't overtake a lorry doing 40mph then buy a motorbike ;-)
If you can't overtake the lorry sit behind it, enjoy the scenery and think how much fuel you're saving.
Why should they pull over? It'll slow them down for a start and their hours are limited anyway. Have you thought that if they stop they won't be able to do the journey in enough time to keep your prices down at the supermarket?
Many of these drivers are paid a bonus for keeping fuel consumption under a certain amount - stopping and starting will drink gallons in a fully loaded artic.

Another thing to add...
If you haven't taken any advanced driver training I would suggest it might be worthwhile. Proper observatoin on that road an advanced teachniques will present a lot more overtaking opportunities than you might have noticed.

That's my input into this thread - I won't be getting into any debates. I just wanted ot share my opinion and suggest something that might benefit the OP.


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

47p2 said:


> I drove a 44 tonne truck (British weight limit is 40 tonnes but special 44 tonne concession for EU loads that come through the Channel Tunnel) up and down the A9 for many years, sometimes 6 days a week. I know the road like the back of my hand and the number of knob-ends in cars who were too impatient to wait until the road ahead was clear before passing makes me wonder if they had a death wish. I've seen the emergency services shovelling body parts off the road and it's not a nice thing to see, I've also seen drivers killed by running into deer and sheep, all because they were travelling too fast on what is one of Britain's worst stretches of road.
> 
> The biggest concern is when holiday makers from countries that drive on the opposite side from the UK travel this route, they often come out of a side road and forget to keep left, I remember well the Ford Galaxy where a whole family of 5 were wiped out because they forgot to keep left. Sadly they not only wiped out themselves but the car they collided with suffered two fatalities
> 
> To the op, slow down, the A9 is not a road for speed and the police have hide outs where they monitor from, a case of they can see you but you won't see them until the blue light is flashing in your rear view mirror. It's not a race track and it will bite you on the bum if you treat it like one


I certainly can't argue with any of the above.

Although I do know the A9 reasonably well, I don't drive it regularly any longer. I am not a fast driver and I don't take chances, but to have to sit back and chill at 38 mph or thereabouts for tens of miles is a pain in the rear end especially once you finally get past one delivery truck only to find another tailback a couple of miles ahead.

I admit I'm not seeing this from the point of view of the truckers - but despite what our trucking members say above they are not always the gentlemen of the road that some like to think they are.

I've had great runs up/down the A9 and I've had horrible ones - today wasn't good partly because of traffic and partly because of weather - it was crap today in both directions. I too have seen the accidents and they're horrendous, many of which could be avoided if this vital arterial route was given the level of upgrading it needs.

OK - rant over


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2006)

It is a shame to have initially said lorry rant because it sounds like you were blaming lorry drivers for the deaths on this road.

As it turns out its now the fact that the road hasnt been dual carriaged.

Being an HGV license holder I can relate to having to do 40mph on A roads and yes its painful but their license is their livelyhood too, imagine if they broke the speed limit 4 times in one day, license gone, job gone etc etc.

So on behalf of all lorry drivers I except your apology for a poorly named thread title.


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

[email protected] - There isn't an apology for you to accept because I didn't and won't make one. It was a rant pure and simple - I was p!ssed off after a horrendous drive and in similar circumstances I'd probably say the same again. It's all one huge mess compounded by various factors beyond our control. 

Thank goodness I won't need to use the A9 again for some considerable time.


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

This has been bugging me, so I decided to actually work out the actual situation - I took a mapping program and actually plotted the dual carriageway sections of the A9 between Inverness and Perth to show the lengths of the dual and the distances in between.

Around 25% of the road is dual and as you will see, only two four of the 9 nine sections of dual are longer than three miles with remainder being pretty short. Distances between dual sections are often long with four over ten miles and the longest single carriageway section over thirty miles in length.

*The dual carriageway sections are highlighted in yellow on the table below. (A9 covered between Raigmore Interchange, Inverness and Glenalmond Roundabout, Perth).*










I'm actually surprised at the hard figures myself - I didn't realise that the dual part of the road was as high as 25%, but some of the dual sections are even shorter than I had thought. I don't expect any about turns, and I stand by my annoyance at this road - perhaps this will explain my frustration to a degree which really ought to be aimed more at whoever is actually responsible for the road than the truckers at whom I vented my venom last evening - but they still annoy me and result in many drivers taking unnecessary risks resulting in many accidents which of course are the fault of the vehicle drivers and not the truckers.


----------



## Osarkon (Feb 20, 2011)

Well there's one thing worse than truckers doing 40 - people in cars doing 40! :wall:


----------



## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

Osarkon said:


> Well there's one thing worse than truckers doing 40 - people in cars doing 40! :wall:


the other famous one for me is ones that do 40 in a 50 and then carry on doing 40 in a 30!:wall:


----------



## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

A lorry was the main reason I failed my test - well obviously it was my fault for speeding, but got seriously tailgated by one who wasn't slowing down meaning I sped up (to 65) to get away from them.


No consideration


----------



## clark_rally (Dec 26, 2010)

The worst thing about the A9 are the car drivers who sit behind the truck and refuse to overtake, this then means cars further back have to overtake a number of cars before they even reach the lorry at the head of the queue. The car drivers behind the truck more often than not dont leave any gaps for those overtaking a string of traffic to get back into the correct lane when needed. It is them that are the danger and should be taken off the road. If everyone overtook the trucks or left sufficient space behind them, then there would be no queue.


----------



## kcass (Aug 24, 2010)

i drive the a9 often,if i was to pull over every time there were a few cars crawling behind me i would never make the journey home and then come the end of the week i would be over my driving hours!
if every car driver was to pass at the safest oppurtunity then there would'nt be tailbacks!
roll on the summer when there's caravans,motorhomes and foreign cars to contend with


----------



## RobW (Jul 18, 2009)

I am on the A9 everyday of my life (usually Tain to Inverness) and it is not a great road. From Aviemore it is a nightmare! I have heard some Chinese whispers that the police will not stop and charge a lorry driver doing more than 40mph on the A9, not to say the twazzock in the camera van won't press his button though.

The road was designed well before the volume of traffic was so high but if you look at the road, most (if not all?) has the potential to be upgraded to dual carriageway but at what cost?!

The A9 goes all the way to Thurso now (used to be Wick but it changes to the A99 at Latheron and the A9 covers the Cassiemire now) and if you think some of the further south road is bad, wait until you see it north of Brora! Some parts are just too narrow for 2 cars to get past each other, let alone 2 lorries.

To put things into perspective, have a drive on the A82 (Inverness to Fort William / Oban)

The biggest problem with lorries going slow is not the lorry going slowly, it is the cars behind who will not pass and leave NO space for more confident drivers to 'make progress' The HGV drivers are limited to two 4.5 hour driving stints with a 45 minute break separating them, thats 9 hours of driving a day and they can add an extra hour once or twice a week but if they run out of driving hours, they have to stop and park for 11 hours. Being stuck in a layby on the A9 for 11 hours is not my idea of fun!!


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Some very valid points there Rob - all you need is a car/caravan, or a couple of Corsa/Micra/Fiestas driven by wrinklies sitting behind the truck and you're stuffed on so many stretches of the A9.

I've driven the Inverness-Thurso section of the A9, but not for around seven years - don't suppose it's improved any in that time, it was an absolute nightmare as I remember it.

To be honest, once you get north and west of Perth, or north-west of Aberdeen you're in forgotten territory - the land that time forgot as far as roads are concerned. I suspect that many DW members who don't know Scotland north of the Central Belt have no idea just how bad it is.

Since my original rant of about thirty hours ago, I'm seeing this whole situation in a slightly different light and your post has made the most difference, thanks for your input - much appreciated.

*I HATE TAILGATERS*


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

alan_mcc said:


> A lorry was the main reason I failed my test - well obviously it was my fault for speeding, but got seriously tailgated by one who wasn't slowing down meaning I sped up (to 65) to get away from them.
> 
> No consideration


Sorry to hear that Alan. Did you take your test here in Elgin (assuming there is still a test centre here - sorry, I don't know)?


----------



## RobW (Jul 18, 2009)

There is a new section of road just north of Helmsdale (over the Ord) - instead of the continental style road winding up the side of the hill, there is a big (and wide) 2 mile stretch with an overtaking lane.

I usually drive a LWB Crafter for work and if I am in no rush and behind slower traffic, I will leave a massive gap infront so cars can use it as a stop gap if they need.


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

I'm not a fast driver but I don't hang about either - there is no point in sitting close up behind and obstruction be it truck, caravan, whatever and especially the trucks as you need a clear view for overtaking and for him to see you.

When I first passed my test in 1977, my Dad who was then a police officer, arranged for me to have several sessions with their local police driving instructor, several of the main points he taught me I still apply today in my thirty fifth year of driving:


Always look as far ahead as possible, anticipate any possible problems.
Always hang well back from any moving instruction to give as clear a view as possible to allow him to see you and to allow you to accelerate and over-take in as straight a line as possible.
Anticipate as many potential problems as possible in your surroundings.
Treat every other driver as a hazard.
I don't have any advanced driver training, but I feel that these few hours of unofficial training all those years ago made me into a better and safer driver. I wish more drivers today could apply safer driving skills that the madness we see on the roads every day.

It always amazes me to see how badly the majority of drivers overtake - too close behind the vehicle they're overtaking, slam the car out sharply sideways and similarly back in in front of the vehicle they have just passed, and taking enormous risks partly because they can't see past the obstruction properly because they're too close behind it.


----------



## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

DW58 said:


> Sorry to hear that Alan. Did you take your test here in Elgin (assuming there is still a test centre here - sorry, I don't know)?


Nah I took it in Buckie. It was in the 50 zone (arradoul) I was tailgated, by the looks of things the driver had no intention on slowing down. That's why I sped up.

Pretty terrifying when his Mercedes badge fills up your mirror!


----------



## RobW (Jul 18, 2009)

DW58 said:


> I'm not a fast driver but I don't hang about either - there is no point in sitting close up behind and obstruction be it truck, caravan, whatever and especially the trucks as you need a clear view for overtaking and for him to see you.
> 
> When I first passed my test in 1977, my Dad who was then a police officer, arranged for me to have several sessions with their local police driving instructor, several of the main points he taught me I still apply today in my thirty fifth year of driving:
> 
> ...


To me, all of that is common sense, I don;t trust any other driver on the road, never take a risk (IMO), and am always looking at what the other drivers are doing. Never get angry if I get cut up, pulled out in front of or am victim of someone elses road rage, I just get on with it knowing I am being as safe as I can.

Far too many bad / inconsiderate / selfish drivers out there.


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Wise words Rob.

That's a bad stretch Alan - got a re-sit arranged? I didn't realise there was a test centre in the big city of Buckie.

I remember the days when folk who failed in Elgin and around, booked their re-sits in Grantown-on-Spey when there was still a test centre there - no traffic lights, no roundabouts, no nothing!


----------



## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

Aye, the re-test is on the 26th of may. If anything was gonna happen I knew it'd be there. Examiner explained after that it was wrong of me to speed up but to be honest that lorry was getting closer every time I looked at my mirror. 

wow :lol: they had a test centre there? that's mad.

wouldn't call the place in Buckie a 'test centre', think the examiners have a small room in the fire station!


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Good luck for then :thumb:


----------



## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

cheers, certainly won't be the nervous sweaty mess like I was the last time!


----------



## WAA (Mar 6, 2011)

generally its not the lorry you cant pass but the line of cars who will only pass on the dual carriageway. sitting nose to taill behind it.


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

WAA said:


> generally its not the lorry you cant pass but the line of cars who will only pass on the dual carriageway. sitting nose to taill behind it.


Already discussed earlier in the thread.


----------



## Chris200100 (Jun 1, 2008)

DW58 said:


> Today I drove Elgin to Perth and back via the A9, not a quick route at the best of times, but made particularly bad by supermarket delivery trucks crawling at 40mph on this already dangerous road.
> 
> Asda, Tesco, Morrisons, M&S & Christian Salveson, I hate you all! I was in turn stuck behind trucks operated by or on behalf of all of you today, all crawling at 40mph, exhibiting bad and totally inconsiderate driving and on no case did they pull over to allow tale-backs to clear. In each case these drivers caused dangerous overtaking, the taking of unnecessary risks, and general impatience.
> 
> ...


Be for you start ranting about trucker's WHY don't you check the law!!!!!

Lorry's are only allowed to do 40MPH on single carrageway, and there no law stating that they must pull over to allow you to pass, WHAT YOU ASKING THE TRUCKERS TO DO BREAK THE LAW???? by speeding????

I bet your the type of **** that sits too close to cars that do 60 on these roads which again is the legal limit if it a national speed limit road.

I'm totally fed up with idiot car drivers that rant and complain about truckers that are not doing anything wrong, yes there are idiot truckers as well as car drivers but I feel that the rants on here are from IDIOTS that have no clue how to drive a truck or how a truck differs from a car. let me give you a hint. truck are completely different to cars to drive.

I could rant all day for a year about car drivers that do the most idiotic things but I don't as I KNOW that they don't understand what trucks drive like.

So before you rate think a little before you do.


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Actually I gave this quite a lot of thought, and had you actually read the entire thread before shooting from the hip the discussion has actually developed a long way. I have already acknowledged that my initial posting was done in frustration following a horrendous journey, something you clearly didn't consider as you obviously haven't read the entire thread.

You shout about what you describe as idiot car drivers whilst throwing random insults. The tone of your own post doesn't exactly suggest much intelligence or reasoning is behind it. You've actually proven that you haven't read the whole thread with much of what you have posted.

BTW what on earth does _"So before you rate think a little before you do."_ mean? :wall:


----------



## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Chris200100 said:


> Be for you start ranting about trucker's WHY don't you check the law!!!!!
> 
> So before you rate think a little before you do.


Maybe you should take your own advice before jumping in two footed to a thread that has moved on far beyond the OP's rant 

:lol:

Oh, and we are all due a rant now and again....good for the soul

:thumb:


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Thanks Cuey - what our jaw-flapper clearly hasn't realised because he hasn't read the thread, is that I have addressed much of my original rant posted in frustration, and that the thread has developed into detailed discussion of the problem which caused my frustration. I fully admit to having not considered all the causes of my annoyance and have addressed these at length.

In retrospect, I ought to have titled the thread differently and perhaps directed my initial frustration at the multiple factors which caused it, but we all do things in the heat of the moment which we later regret.

What really annoys me are arrogant, ignorant and inarticulate posters who jump into a thread after considerable discussion has developed and make an ill thought out, rude and badly put together post which badly addresses the only thing they appear to have read - the initial post, and what's more haven't even read through the post they are about to make to check if it even makes sense before hitting the "Submit" button.


----------



## Derek Mc (Jun 27, 2006)

This topic will always draw very polarised opinion that's for sure, I too do a lot of travelling and find mostly courteous lorry drivers share the road with me but the equipment at times is the issue, as two governed lorries are never going to be an easy prospect in an overtake! and can duel up the road for miles,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The one thing that really really get's my goat however is when the truck drifts over the outer white line and sprays my car in stones and debris, now this is not intentional (I would be arrogant and stupid to say it is!) but after being patient for several miles in some cases, to then have the final insult of gutter spray chipping my paintwork and the whole stream of cars behind is frustrating.

Then I hold the safety angle view, there is a massive argument for limiting trucks top speeds but an equal if not stronger argument that it causes hundreds of even more dangerous situations as frustrated public try to pass these trucks at some incredibly stupid moments!

The A9 is so very dangerous for this reason, as is sections of the A66 in-fact most of the UK single carriageway trunk roads are a very dangerous place to negotiate,,,,,,,,,,, and do NOT get me started on caravans!!!!!!


----------



## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

DW58 said:


> Thanks Cuey - what our jaw-flapper clearly hasn't realised because he hasn't read the thread, is that I have addressed much of my original rant posted in frustration, and that the thread has developed into detailed discussion of the problem which caused my frustration. I fully admit to having not considered all the causes of my annoyance and have addressed these at length.
> 
> In retrospect, I ought to have titled the thread differently and perhaps directed my initial frustration at the multiple factors which caused it, but we all do things in the heat of the moment which we later regret.
> 
> What really annoys me are arrogant, ignorant and inarticulate posters who jump into a thread after considerable discussion has developed and make an ill thought out, rude and badly put together post which badly addresses the only thing they appear to have read - the initial post, and what's more haven't even read through the post they are about to make to check if it even makes sense before hitting the "Submit" button.


Well it wouldn't be a rant if you sat down and thought about everything to write down, and is this a good title etc etc....

Sometimes you just have to let your fingers do there best (or worst).... mistakes will always get made, a simple sorry mate, I was wrong can usually sort it... if they are big enough to admit they are wrong...

I think I'm pretty good at that, as I am usually wrong with so much stuff :lol: 

The good thing about this place, is, usually a rant can and does turn into a positive debate where (because of the numbers on here) both sides can be heard and put across their valid points...

:thumb:


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Exactly - I've learnt a lot from this thread as unlike the dribble posted by one recent contributor there has been much well thought out and informative dialogue. I am now seeing things from the trucker's point of view, I have learnt that some Scottish drivers who think they know the A9 clearly don't, and that no matter what you post and how a thread develops, there will always be someone who jumps in with his size tens with the idea that only his post actually matters.

The whole point about adding the word _Rant_ to a thread titles is that's exactly what it is, it's unlikely to be a reasoned post made after a long period of contemplation, it's a post made in frustration by one who is p!ssed off in the extreme which I was late on Saturday afternoon. In retrospect I would probably have posted differently, but then it wouldn't have been a rant.


----------



## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

DW58 said:


> Exactly - I've learnt a lot from this thread as unlike the dribble posted by *Cueball at the start, him and his bloody motorbikes*
> 
> The whole point about adding the word _Rant_ to a thread titles is that's exactly what it is, it's unlikely to be a reasoned post made after a long period of contemplation, it's a post made in frustration by one who is p!ssed off in the extreme which I was late on Saturday afternoon. In retrospect I would probably have posted differently, but then it wouldn't have been a rant.


EFA..... 

Yes I agree....when the word rant is in the title, you are going to be dealing with someone that is upset and pi$$ed off at something.... to start it will be their point of view and they will be right...

As things move on, with the right people putting up well thought out posts, it can help to give everyone a different view and a bit of knowledge, which can only be a good thing (imo)

:thumb:


----------



## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

DW58 said:


> I wish more drivers today could apply safer driving skills that the madness we see on the roads every day.


As my advanced driving instructor said to me while I was doing my lessons. Imagine this car is a bubble, and you don't want that bubble to burst.



DW58 said:


> I am now seeing things from the trucker's point of view


I saw things from a truckers point of view when I once had to drive a 17 seater Ford Trannie mini-bus from Cambridge to Gatwick and back. Limited to 56mph, each overtake had to be planeed so far ahead, it was just totally different to driving a car...:doublesho


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

Luckily I've never driven anything larger than a minibus or Transit van on roads, but I have driven a few heavier things off-road such as an aircraft tug, armoured personnel carrier, tractor and industrial loader. Owing to disability, I don't do the high milage I did in days gone by which possibly makes me less tolerant and more easily frustrated, but this doesn't change the fact the north of the Central belt Scotland has possibly the worst roads in Western Europe and accident figures to match. If the last government had spent the thirteen years to May 2010 on things other than fiddling their expense accounts, starting unnecessary wars and then lying about them and more time actually sorting the country out, then we'd at last have a decent arterial route through central Scotland and a number of people would be alive who ought not to have died. In less than two weeks, Scotland will with luck be free of the bunch of delusional nationalist dim-wits currently at the helm, and we might, just might finally get the program of road improvement we've needed for so long.


----------



## nickygixer-k5 (Jul 7, 2009)

DW58 said:


> Today I drove Elgin to Perth and back via the A9, not a quick route at the best of times, but made particularly bad by supermarket delivery trucks crawling at 40mph on this already dangerous road.
> 
> Asda, Tesco, Morrisons, M&S & Christian Salveson, I hate you all! I was in turn stuck behind trucks operated by or on behalf of all of you today, all crawling at 40mph, exhibiting bad and totally inconsiderate driving and on no case did they pull over to allow tale-backs to clear. In each case these drivers caused dangerous overtaking, the taking of unnecessary risks, and general impatience.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure of this road but I would think it's not a dual carriageway as A road speed limits are 40 mph You say about the great Eddie Stobart pmsl they are one of the worst driven trucks I have ever seen on british roads, being overtaken on 40 mph A roads with double whites running up the middle I wouldn't say as being safe.
I think you will find that the extra training that supermarket truck drivers outweigh the bad hgv drivers on british roads.


----------



## jcp (Oct 2, 2010)

Its amazing the amount of people that have the same opinion as DW58 in your 1st post , im glad youve calmed down and started it understand it from a truckers point of value , no matter what we do , we are always upsetting someone , but this country needs trucks


----------



## nickygixer-k5 (Jul 7, 2009)

DW58 said:


> They could at least pull over, but they don't! I was about the tenth vehicle in a long queue behind a Tesco truck this morning - I'm guessing there were maybe 40-50+ vehicles stuck behind him and he made no attempt whatsoever to pull over passing umpteen lay-bys before the first fifteen or so vehicles finally got past him on a pitifully short stretch of dual-carriageway, the majority were still stuck behind him.


Why should we pull over everytime there is a car behind us? You think we are holding you up on purpose No it is the law that we adhere to unlike a large percentage of car drivers. I know I see it day in day out my answer to you would be leave a little earlier and relax and enjoy the ride


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

nickygixer-k5 said:


> I'm not sure of this road but I would think it's not a dual carriageway as A road speed limits are 40 mph You say about the great Eddie Stobart pmsl they are one of the worst driven trucks I have ever seen on british roads, being overtaken on 40 mph A roads with double whites running up the middle I wouldn't say as being safe.
> I think you will find that the extra training that supermarket truck drivers outweigh the bad hgv drivers on british roads.


Another poster who clearly hasn't read the thread - not only is it made clear what type of road the A9 is, I've even included an exact breakdown of how much dual/single carriageway there is, but the lengths of the dual sections and the distances in between :wall:










jcp said:


> Its amazing the amount of people that have the same opinion as DW58 in your 1st post , im glad youve calmed down and started it understand it from a truckers point of value , no matter what we do , we are always upsetting someone , but this country needs trucks


It's unfortunate that most of the truckers posting here assume that they automatically have right on their side. Many truckers are impatient, use the bulk of their vehicles to force their way when they don't necessarily have right of way, and can be most discourteous - all drivers have faults, it's not just car drivers.

Yes, in its current state the country needs trucks, but this ought not to be the case. We have a rail network - we once had a great railway network - which ought to be able to take a lot of traffic off of the roads if properly utilised. Take Switzerland for example where road transport is actively discouraged, and other European countries where much more use is made of rail networks - this is what we ought to have. As it is we have overcrowded/underdeveloped roads and underutilised rail networks resulting in rants like mine.

I lot of pressure could be taken off the A9 for example if supermarket deliveries were delivered from the distribution centres by rail to a hub at Inverness (to give one possibility) and the containerised loads moved onward to their local destinations by truck, the system used in Switzerland.

The railway line follows the A9 for much of it's length from Perth to Inverness - I didn't see a single train during wither of my journeys - surely this railway line could be better utilised.


----------



## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

DW58 said:


> They could at least pull over, but they don't! I was about the tenth vehicle in a long queue behind a Tesco truck this morning - I'm guessing there were maybe 40-50+ vehicles stuck behind him and he made no attempt whatsoever to pull over passing umpteen lay-bys before the first fifteen or so vehicles finally got past him on a pitifully short stretch of dual-carriageway, the majority were still stuck behind him.


I agree that it can be frustrating, but look at it at from the lorry drivers position, stopping each time there's a tailback of traffic, the going don all those gears, pulling over when they can, and then find a big enough gap in traffic & pull out to join the road again - remember they can't accelerate like us with normal cars, going up though al those gears again.

It's not that practical unfortunately


----------



## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

DW58 said:


> So you guys sticking up for the truckers are quite happy to sit at forty mph behind the Tesco/M&S/Asda/Morrison trucks for long (i.e. thirty mile) stretches of single carriageway road with little or no chance of getting past - no, I guess you aren't.
> 
> Remember we don't have the fecking fast lanes here in the north because the Government won't bother its backside to fund the roads north of the central belt.
> 
> Suggest you try it some time.


I am sticking up for the lorry drivers as whilst i see your frustrated, they have limits & laws to abide to, if they break them they can ultimately lose their livelihood, for what because drivers behind them are impatient?

I agree if it's a dual carriage way, don't have lorrys overtaking at snails pace, blocking both lanes.

We also don't have fast lanes!!!!!

So chlll out
:thumb:

EDIT:

I've replied to the OP's initial posts as and when i've read them, but now have finished reading the rest of the thread and the other side of the coin has been taken on board!

So apologies for repeating the same points as others have made!


----------



## nickygixer-k5 (Jul 7, 2009)

DW58 said:


> Another poster who clearly hasn't read the thread - not only is it made clear what type of road the A9 is, I've even included an exact breakdown of how much dual/single carriageway there is, but the lengths of the dual sections and the distances in between :wall:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't be arsed to read through 9 pages of the same drivel, all I read is the stupid post that you posted with your I'm in my car bubble and everything around me is wrong attitude


----------



## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

DW58 said:


> What really annoys me are arrogant, ignorant and inarticulate posters who jump into a thread after considerable discussion has developed and make an ill thought out, rude and badly put together post which badly addresses the only thing they appear to have read - the initial post, and what's more haven't even read through the post they are about to make to check if it even makes sense before hitting the "Submit" button.


Why don't you use the edit button on your original post and mention that you have changed your opinions somewhat.

At least they're keeping in on topic with the original post. I don't think some of these posters who haven't read the entire thread are too far off the mark (albeit some are badly worded).

Some good points raised and an interesting thread but not everyone will read it through before posting.

I would like to add something though...

If anyone thinks that they know everything there is to know about how to ride/drive then why not pop down to an AIM meet locally and see what the volvo crew in their v-neck pullovers get up to after all that gossiping and patronising. If you can put up with it then you're very likely to learn something.

Failing that then pop down to your local bookshop or pop online and buy Roadcraft - The Essential Police Drivers Handbook. Very interesting read that might present a few more opportunities or just give you a bit of mental stimulation for driving.

I was lucky enough to have a driving assessment/lesson with Strathcylde Police as part of their Bikesafe initiative. I have to say in the 2-3 hours I was out with them I learned an awful lot about what I was doing wrong/right on my bike and much of it was relevant to driving a car.


----------



## nickygixer-k5 (Jul 7, 2009)

as what he said^ change your title to remove RANT


----------



## nickygixer-k5 (Jul 7, 2009)

kh904 said:


> I am sticking up for the lorry drivers as whilst i see your frustrated, they have limits & laws to abide to, if they break them they can ultimately lose their livelihood, for what because drivers behind them are impatient?
> 
> I agree if it's a dual carriage way, don't have lorrys overtaking at snails pace, blocking both lanes.
> 
> ...


They have started to ban hgv's in outside lanes on certain duals at peak periods already:thumb:


----------



## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

nickygixer-k5 said:


> I can't be arsed to read through 9 pages of the same drivel, all I read is the stupid post that you posted with your I'm in my car bubble and everything around me is wrong attitude


Well that just says it all really.

Read even the last couple of pages and you might not be so quick to jump to conclusions.


----------



## xaddiction (May 10, 2007)

Derek Mc said:


> Then I hold the safety angle view, there is a massive argument for limiting trucks top speeds but an equal if not stronger argument that it causes hundreds of even more dangerous situations as frustrated public try to pass these trucks at some incredibly stupid moments


I'd they were to increase the speed to say 50 mph for hgv's on a single track road would it not still result in people pulling stupid moves...

I drive one for a living so I get to see first hand just how crazy some people get when they get impatient.


----------



## nickygixer-k5 (Jul 7, 2009)

Leodhasach said:


> Well that just says it all really.
> 
> Read even the last couple of pages and you might not be so quick to jump to conclusions.


Yes your right maybe I should have read the last few pages, but I am so fed up of hearing that this truck did this and this truck did that it did my head in.
I have been driving professionally for 25 years and remarks like the first post is like showing a red rag to a bull so I apologise to the op
But as I have already stated we are doing our jobs we don't decide the speed limits on our roads we adhere to them:thumb:
Maybe some non HGV drivers should try driving an artic to see what it's all about then have a RANT. A good opportunity to try this is on your marks held at Bruntingthorpe, it is held by yes a supermarket chain Asda and it is all for charity:thumb:


----------



## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

nickygixer-k5 said:


> Yes your right maybe I should have read the last few pages, but I am so fed up of hearing that this truck did this and this truck did that it did my head in.
> I have been driving professionally for 25 years and remarks like the first post is like showing a red rag to a bull so I apologise to the op
> But as I have already stated we are doing our jobs we don't decide the speed limits on our roads we adhere to them:thumb:
> Maybe some non HGV drivers should try driving an artic to see what it's all about then have a RANT. A good opportunity to try this is on your marks held at Bruntingthorpe, it is held by yes a supermarket chain Asda and it is all for charity:thumb:


Fair enough :thumb:

Out of interest, have you driven the A9, particularly on a busy summer's day or in bad weather conditions?


----------



## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

I have already stated several times that I have revised my views in light of some of the posts on the thread, but I have also been extremely annoyed by others. I'm not going to revise my original post as that would render many of the subsequent posts irrelevant.

People are still not taking on board how the thread has progressed and how I have several times pointed out the single-minded rant nature of my original post and accepted where I was wrong. I'm not saying it again :wall:

So please, no more patronising "I know it all about advanced motoring lectures", I took your point the first time and even explained how I'd had police instruction several pages ago. 

Awaits next post from member who has only read page one of the thread ... ... ...


----------



## nickygixer-k5 (Jul 7, 2009)

Leodhasach said:


> Fair enough :thumb:
> 
> Out of interest, have you driven the A9, particularly on a busy summer's day or in bad weather conditions?


Maybe I have I used to drive Scotland quite a lot but been driving for a supermarket chain for the last 8 years, but I suppose the roads are no different to the roads we have in South Wales


----------



## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

DW58 said:


> I have already stated several times that I have revised my views in light of some of the posts on the thread, but I have also been extremely annoyed by others. I'm not going to revise my original post as that would render many of the subsequent posts irrelevant.
> 
> People are still not taking on board how the thread has progressed and how I have several times pointed out the single-minded rant nature of my original post and accepted where I was wrong. I'm not saying it again :wall:
> 
> ...


the poor lorry driv........... :devil:  :wave:


----------



## Ant695 (Mar 21, 2011)

In fairness trucks are a pain to be stuck behind as are tractors and any other slow moving vehicle but they don't cause the dangerous and reckless overtaking. Its the driver of the cars decision to make a reckless overtake and if they crash whos gonna accept the excuse that it was the lorrys fault for driving at the limit?

Ant695


----------



## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

having been in tractors and other plant its amazing what people will do thinking they are going to save a few seconds.. A-road with a JCB fast trax turning right (yes all the road lights on the tractor and disc spreader work some farmers are responsible believe it or not ) indicating just turning in and some  goes for the overtake from 2 cars back...... and he ends up in the field through the gate hole we are going through and gets stuck needless to say we spread the hopper full and eventually towed him out........


----------

