# Taken the plunge with a cheap-ish mountain bike



## millns84

My four year old has recently developed a bike obsession and as a consequence, I dusted off my 14 year old Apollo XC36 which hasn't moved from the shed in 8 years just to keep up with him now that he's off the stabilisers.

Fast forward a few weeks and we're now regularly going on trails/forest runs and I appear to have rekindled my interest in mountain bikes generally.

Don't get me wrong, the Apollo was just a cheap bike that was never really used in my early 20's but before that I had had a custom made dual suspension bike that cost a fortune (carbon frame, Hope brakes etc) when I was really into my mountain biking...

For the next bike, I set a pretty low budget - £250.00 - Mainly as it's early days and I don't know how far the interest will take us, but I went pretty left of the field after spotting this:-

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32917940493.html

Managed to find one with a discount code for £230.00, so hoping it lives up to expectations! That said, I'm not really sure what to expect!

It was interesting to see a thread below about mountain bikes, nice to know there's others on here that are into them... But so much has changed since the early 2000's!


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## muzzer

It’s going to be fairly basic looking at the spec sheet but if you’re only riding with your lad, it should be up to the job. Anything a bit adventurous and i’d be wary if it were me :thumb:


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## millns84

muzzer said:


> It's going to be fairly basic looking at the spec sheet but if you're only riding with your lad, it should be up to the job. Anything a bit adventurous and i'd be wary if it were me :thumb:


My thoughts exactly, but in that price bracket I guess that's be universal.

Might upgrade bits and bobs as time goes by as I do like to tinker.


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## AnthonyUK

For that money I wouldn't expect too much tbh especially with full suspension but it will be ok. 
I would have opted for something 2nd hand with a decent spec and low weight as for a new bike you generally need to spend £400 for something decent.

I recently bought a £500 hybrid to replace a stolen Cannondale which I bought 2nd hand for £400. 
The new bike is ok but much heavier and the gear level just about acceptable compared to the older bike. 
My old bike was recovered so I'm pretty happy.


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## muzzer

AnthonyUK said:


> For that money I wouldn't expect too much tbh especially with full suspension but it will be ok.
> I would have opted for something 2nd hand with a decent spec and low weight as for a new bike you generally need to spend £400 for something decent.
> 
> I recently bought a £500 hybrid to replace a stolen Cannondale which I bought 2nd hand for £400.
> The new bike is ok but much heavier and the gear level just about acceptable compared to the older bike.
> My old bike was recovered so I'm pretty happy.


In a similar vein, i went hardtail ally but with a better spec rather than full sus. For what i use it for, it makes sense.


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## Tykebike

You've got the bike now make sure you've got the helmet - and wear it!


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## muzzer

Tykebike said:


> You've got the bike now make sure you've got the helmet - and wear it!


Definitely this, best piece of advice you will get.

I look a tool in my crash helemt but i'd rather look a tool than end up like the wifes brother in law, he's now brain damaged because he chose not to wear one.


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## THE CHAMP

I would sooner spend that sort of money on a beter seconhand bike that bike in the link is a waste of good money. dont forget to add 20% vat and the parcel force handling charge


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## millns84

Tykebike said:


> You've got the bike now make sure you've got the helmet - and wear it!


Definitely. Wouldn't be without one as I work in the PI industry and you wouldn't believe what I've seen... Although a lot is actually cyclists who had helmets.



muzzer said:


> Definitely this, best piece of advice you will get.
> 
> I look a tool in my crash helemt but i'd rather look a tool than end up like the wifes brother in law, he's now brain damaged because he chose not to wear one.


That's awful, but easily done without a helmet.

My four year old actually had a bad fall last Friday. Face planted on a slight hill and knocked a tooth out. His helmet took quite an impact on the peak so he's now got a new one.



THE CHAMP said:


> I would sooner spend that sort of money on a beter seconhand bike that bike in the link is a waste of good money. dont forget to add 20% vat and the parcel force handling charge


It was £230 and delivered yesterday. I'm assuming they've got UK stock as the tracking app suggests that it came from the Midlands.

I didn't really want to go second hand given the inconsistency of what's available and where it is etc.

If I get a bit more serious then I'll consider upgrading a few parts but it seems well made and comparatively light to my Apollo.

Only took it for a 15 minute spin last night anyway. Surprised how good the front shocks are but they're not adjustable. Spent some time properly adjusting the brakes too.


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## millns84

So I've been out a few times on the bike now and realised how awful it is set up as standard. Brakes needed a lot of adjustment but luckily the gears only needed a slight tweak. 

Riding position is very far forward, so much so that it's been putting a lot of pressure on my wrists and shoulders. To address this I've bought a shorter stem and a 720mm riser bar.

The tyres are useless too. So spongy that it's like riding through treacle. Went off road today and all they did was cling on to the mud, getting completely filled with it. I've ordered some Schwalbe Big Bens which will suit my kind of riding much better I think.

Looking to the future, maybe upgraded brakes? They've worn in OK but seem to take a lot of pressure to stop compared to even V brakes. I didn't expect them to compare to the old Hope hydraulics I had but they're not great.

Also considering better forks at some point but I'm all over the place with choices as to coil vs Air, all the brands, types, sizes, travel etc etc!


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## Tykebike

You're getting upgradeitis. You are realising the limitations of a cheap bike and can improve things slightly but putting more money into it will never make it a better bike because the main component, the frame and to a lesser extent the wheels will still let it down.
I would say sell it while its in good condition and get a much better second hand bike so that you can reap the rewards of better design and construction. But then again that's just my opinion!


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## bluechimp

millns84 said:


> So I've been out a few times on the bike now and realised how awful it is set up as standard. Brakes needed a lot of adjustment but luckily the gears only needed a slight tweak.
> 
> Riding position is very far forward, so much so that it's been putting a lot of pressure on my wrists and shoulders. To address this I've bought a shorter stem and a 720mm riser bar.
> 
> The tyres are useless too. So spongy that it's like riding through treacle. Went off road today and all they did was cling on to the mud, getting completely filled with it. I've ordered some Schwalbe Big Bens which will suit my kind of riding much better I think.
> 
> Looking to the future, maybe upgraded brakes? They've worn in OK but seem to take a lot of pressure to stop compared to even V brakes. I didn't expect them to compare to the old Hope hydraulics I had but they're not great.
> 
> Also considering better forks at some point but I'm all over the place with choices as to coil vs Air, all the brands, types, sizes, travel etc etc!


This is where you realise you should have paid a few quid more for a better bike. Even something as basic as the Voodoo range.


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## kingswood

Dont waste anymore money upgrading......refer you back to your opening post - just a stop gap bike into you see how far the boy takes biking.

If he stays with it all summer and then into next year buy a end of year bike in the sales. Your local bike shop will do you 10% off. 

Or buy a second hand one off eBay or gumtree, so many people buy new - on bike to work schemes- and don’t use them. I bought a trek 29er in 2011 and it’s still goin strong now. Was a 2011 model and got it for £600, £1250 new. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## millns84

Tykebike said:


> You're getting upgradeitis. You are realising the limitations of a cheap bike and can improve things slightly but putting more money into it will never make it a better bike because the main component, the frame and to a lesser extent the wheels will still let it down.
> I would say sell it while its in good condition and get a much better second hand bike so that you can reap the rewards of better design and construction. But then again that's just my opinion!


I'm not considering getting rid and replacing, just some basic upgrades.

The reason I'm looking at forks is for more travel as I've bottomed out the standard forks which seem very softly sprung. Nothing too adventurous but maybe some Suntour XCR or Rockshox 30 Silver.

Same with brakes, just something a bit better but not breaking the bank... Say Clarks M3 with 180mm rotor up front.

All being said, I'm four stone heavier than when I was really into my bikes... Maybe that's given me unrealistic expectations of more basic gear.



bluechimp said:


> This is where you realise you should have paid a few quid more for a better bike. Even something as basic as the Voodoo range.


Not really, gross cost I'm expecting to still be less than Voodoo and I like tinkering with things in any event. I won't count the tyres in that as I'd probably have gotten something more suited to roads and light off roading regardless.



kingswood said:


> Dont waste anymore money upgrading......refer you back to your opening post - just a stop gap bike into you see how far the boy takes biking.
> 
> If he stays with it all summer and then into next year buy a end of year bike in the sales. Your local bike shop will do you 10% off.
> 
> Or buy a second hand one off eBay or gumtree, so many people buy new - on bike to work schemes- and don't use them. I bought a trek 29er in 2011 and it's still goin strong now. Was a 2011 model and got it for £600, £1250 new.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd certainly consider that if I was really serious about it but I'm not. At the moment I want comfort while I keep up with a four year old on an Apollo Fire Chief :lol:


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## millns84

So I've added a few bits to the bike now - 720mm carbon fibre riser bar with 70mm stem. It's made a world of difference and actually feels how a mountain bike should (straight bar and 90mm stem felt really far forward like a road bike). 

I've got some aluminium pedals, lightweight seat post and hybrid calipers (wire pulled hydraulics) on order. Still waiting for the Schwalbe Big Ben tyres to be delivered too. 

Also looking for forks in the next few weeks. The amount of choice is ridiculous, but looking at the more basic types I think I've pretty much decided on Suntour Xcr 32. 

Once the forks and new calipers are fitted I'll decide whether I want to go for a larger disc up front. The mechanical brakes have actually felt better the last couple of days but I'm hoping the hybrid calipers will be even better.


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## Stoner

I bought my last bike new and wish I hadn't. Nothing wrong with the bike but I could have got a much higher spec for less money buying on eBay or Gumtree. 

I have now learned my lesson and bought my missus and 3 kids bikes from Gumtree and managed to get 4 for less than £300 and all are in great condition. Halfrauds would have set me back way over £600 for the same kit.


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## GrantB5

For £250 budget you should have definitely bought second hand.


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## jenks

GrantB5 said:


> For £250 budget you should have definitely bought second hand.


Not necessarily. Keep an eye out for sale. I bought a Carrera Crixus cyclo-cross from Halfords in a sale for £250 That was 4 years and 4k miles ago, ridden on road and on muddy cycle paths. In that time is cost me about £20 in repairs. Absolutely brilliant bike. 
I've since bought a £1k Cannondale road bike but if I could only keep 1 bike it would be the Carrera.


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## mike13

After 9 months no-one cares!!


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## jenks

mike13 said:


> After 9 months no-one cares!!


I was replying to a 3 day old post!!

Oh, let's not forget you cared enough to comment !!

I wasn't trying to give advice to the OP, who has bought his bike, but others as lots of people buying bikes at the minute!!


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## mike13

It wasn't aimed at you Jenks!


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## GrantB5

mike13 said:


> After 9 months no-one cares!!


Don't cry, I'm sorry I never exmained the post for the original date :thumb:

You need to get outside and get some oxygen and clear your head and don;t get so worked up about a late reply


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## millns84

I didn't even realise the thread had been resurrected!

Nearly a year on and I've still got the bike... I've fettled so much that the only original parts are the frame and headset, barely recognisable now!

Speaking of which, I've got some Sunringle rims with DT Swiss hubs being delivered this afternoon, which cost nearly as much as the bike :tumbleweed:

I think there's definitely merit in buying something a bit pricier so you can start off with a higher basic standard... In my case, I fettle so much that I've created a decent quality bike which is entirely my own, personal build and in all honesty, I've loved messing, upgrading and learning how to do everything mechanically with the bike... Almost as much as I enjoy riding.


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## percymon

millns84 said:


> I didn't even realise the thread had been resurrected!
> 
> Nearly a year on and I've still got the bike... I've fettled so much that the only original parts are the frame and headset, barely recognisable now!
> 
> Speaking of which, I've got some Sunringle rims with DT Swiss hubs being delivered this afternoon, which cost nearly as much as the bike :tumbleweed:
> 
> I think there's definitely merit in buying something a bit pricier so you can start off with a higher basic standard... In my case, I fettle so much that I've created a decent quality bike which is entirely my own, personal build and in all honesty, I've loved messing, upgrading and learning how to do everything mechanically with the bike... Almost as much as I enjoy riding.


The thing is you now have some reasonable components that you could swap onto a used/new old stock frame in time. It's surprising the number of older model frames that keep cropping up on ebay etc.

What's your opinion on the Big Ben's ? I haven't ridden my full sus for some time, and all its likely to do these days is cycle paths and tow paths - thinking they could be a much better option for rolling resistance than the mega sized nobblies i have on currently. I've even looked at the Kenda Kiniption which is almost like a BMX tyre tread wise. I always found the full sus hard work on road and paths, not helped by the other half being on her electric dutchy


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## millns84

percymon said:


> The thing is you now have some reasonable components that you could swap onto a used/new old stock frame in time. It's surprising the number of older model frames that keep cropping up on ebay etc.
> 
> What's your opinion on the Big Ben's ? I haven't ridden my full sus for some time, and all its likely to do these days is cycle paths and tow paths - thinking they could be a much better option for rolling resistance than the mega sized nobblies i have on currently. I've even looked at the Kenda Kiniption which is almost like a BMX tyre tread wise. I always found the full sus hard work on road and paths, not helped by the other half being on her electric dutchy


The Big Ben's are great - crazy rolling resistance at low pressure but they do look a bit funny/thin on the rims. Grip is fine in anything except mud or wet loose terrain.

Depending on your bike, I'd probably consider the Schwalbe Big One (2.35 width) as its the lowest rolling resistance tyre they do and not as skinny as the Ben's. There's also the Super Moto which I think are 2.4 or 2.8.

Im currently running Thunder Burt on the rear and Racing Ralph on the front which still have low rolling resistance but can take a bit more off road.


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## GSI-MAN

Any pics
Curious to what it actually looks like 
How much have you spent on your upgrades?


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## millns84

GSI-MAN said:


> Any pics
> Curious to what it actually looks like
> How much have you spent on your upgrades?


Not sure if this link will work - https://ibb.co/F7WwbHV

Just put the new front wheel on. Waiting for a chain breaker to arrive tomorrow so I can put the new rear on that has a wide range 9 speed casette on it, so I'm upgrading to 1x9 with new shifter and derailleur. The casette is 11-42 so I'll have a lot of range with the 32t oval chain ring at the front.

I've kept things really cheap by looking for deals - will still be a fair bit cumulatively, and especially because I'm further upgrading, but can't say I've kept track.

Next parts going on in the next few days are:

Clarks M3 brakes (I liked the Clouts and these are nearly half the weight) 
Suntour Raidon R rear shock (just lighter than the Dnm coil) 
9 speed Alivio M4000 conversion (tried 1x8 but I've no climbing gear! Weighs less than the Alivio M410 too) 
Token carbon fibre bottom bracket (just because carbon fibre...)


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## Tykebike

It all depends on what type of trails you ride but if its more technical than fire roads and canal paths the next upgrade I would seriously consider is a dropper seat post. I had to gulp, close my eyes and press the buy button as it was around £200 at the time. What an investment! I'd put it right up there with disc brakes.
To instantly raise and lower the seat post on technical stuff is brilliant and it makes getting on and off a lot easier.


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## percymon

millns84 said:


> The Big Ben's are great - crazy rolling resistance at low pressure but they do look a bit funny/thin on the rims. Grip is fine in anything except mud or wet loose terrain.
> 
> Depending on your bike, I'd probably consider the Schwalbe Big One (2.35 width) as its the lowest rolling resistance tyre they do and not as skinny as the Ben's. There's also the Super Moto which I think are 2.4 or 2.8.
> 
> Im currently running Thunder Burt on the rear and Racing Ralph on the front which still have low rolling resistance but can take a bit more off road.


Many thanks - 26" rims so the Big One is a no goer.

Your TB and RR pairing looks a good combo, although i always thought the RR was developed more for the rear wheel ?

Good to see you enjoying the bike and the upgrade path :thumb:


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## millns84

Tykebike said:


> It all depends on what type of trails you ride but if its more technical than fire roads and canal paths the next upgrade I would seriously consider is a dropper seat post. I had to gulp, close my eyes and press the buy button as it was around £200 at the time. What an investment! I'd put it right up there with disc brakes.
> To instantly raise and lower the seat post on technical stuff is brilliant and it makes getting on and off a lot easier.


I had thought about a dropper post but I've got a funny seat post size - 28.6mm - Took a while to source the carbon fibre post and I'm not even sure I can get a dropper in that size.

Getting on the bike without doing a roundhouse kick does sound good though. I have had to manually lower the seat post a couple of times too.



percymon said:


> Many thanks - 26" rims so the Big One is a no goer.
> 
> Your TB and RR pairing looks a good combo, although i always thought the RR was developed more for the rear wheel ?
> 
> Good to see you enjoying the bike and the upgrade path :thumb:


I suppose the Big Bens won't look as thin on 26 inch rims in any event, and the balloon suspension effect makes for a comfy ride.

It's only the latest Ralph's that are rear specific - got mine new old stock in the old tread pattern that can be for either wheel. Strangely, the new versions weigh a lot more and have higher rolling resistance.


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## millns84

Well the headset has been replaced with a Superstar Components headset with sealed bearings... Only the frame is original now :lol:

Also replaced the forks with some lighter Manitou M7 MRD forks... Pricey but out of this world compared to the fake Foxes I had on there!


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