# CLAMPED on my own driveway



## SubtleAggressiv

Hi, I just woke up this morning to the local ws clamping my car.
I know it didnt have any tax but it was parked on my driveway in a estate owned by a housing group (private land).

They didnt attach a PCN and I had to ask for a sheet of paper so I know how much these ps are stealing off me. I'm starting to think that these guys are doing things their own way and not by the book by not giving me a PCN and clamping my car without notice. 

They are charging me £45 for the PCN i didnt receive and £145 to remove the clamp!

If anybody has experience with this kind of thing please help! I just got out of serious surgery a couple of days ago and have been unable to go down to the post office to get my tax renewed.

Im soooo angry that I might just go and hire a angle grinder from the local HSS hire and taking it off...


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## [email protected]

cut it off, and get your car moved to someones lock up - then deny it was ever there


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## Drakey

Surely thats classed as off the road because it was on YOUR driveway? wtf are they doing clamping it!


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## OutLore

If the car was on private land, then sue them for trespass.

I'd get in touch with the police if I were you - state that your car has been clamped on your private land without your permission.


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## SubtleAggressiv

OutLore said:


> If the car was on private land, then sue them for trespass.
> 
> I'd get in touch with the police if I were you - state that your car has been clamped on your private land without your permission.


Thanks for the quick replies guys.

But just to clarify, the car is parked on my driveway of the house I rent from the South Housing Association. 
It is they who own the land and I just rent from them. But renting from them should mean something as when I challenged the guy about clamping on my driveway he stated that it was private property of South Housing As.

HELP


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## Needs a clean

Call the police. This does not seem legal to me.


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## zetec_paul

When did your TAX run out?


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## Pezza4u

They were doing this in Watford to people who rent off the council/housing assoiciation. Not clamping but removing cars that were parked on driveways with no tax, mot or insurance. End of the day it's their land so they can do it, probably covered themselves with the small print. I rent off the housing assoiciation and all the cars in the communal carpark with no tax etc get clamped and then removed.


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## Guest

Did you not SORN you car?


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## Alsone

You might want to look at this, 2 points:

1. You don't have to make a SORN until 14 days has passed so if your tax expired less than 14 days ago, they have no right to clamp it.

2. They could be about to tow it away (within 24 hours of clamping it), then you get storage fees and the possibility of it being crushed:

LINK: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/UntaxedVehicle/DG_4022072

If its less than 14 days, then you need to get onto the DVLA straight away about the clamp and get the tax disc bought!


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## SubtleAggressiv

zetec_paul said:


> When did your TAX run out?


31 July 2010. The only reason I havent taxed it was because I only bought this car on the 13th July and the renewal notice and V5 didnt come through the door in time. I also had major surgery on the 27/7 and didnt get home till the 31st


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## zetec_paul

I understand you have 14 days to TAX the car once it's expired and can still use it on a public road during these 14 days. Infact i was with my friend 3 months back when he got pulled for speeding 92MPH and his TAX was 10days out of date. Police just said you better get this tax'd in the next few days.

You could of had the tax renewed online and waiting for the tax disk.

Like said above id be tempted to contact police and maybe DVLA see what they advise.


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## theshrew

Get the police out 

Put your own clamp on so they cant tow the vehicle off. 

Pure Filth this clamping thing i got done a few years ago. Lucky enough for me a blike from work lived round the corner who was on call. Quick phone call to him Gas Axe out chains cut and away i went feck em. Half the companies that do it are dodgy anyway. 

1 -0 to the public lol


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## SubtleAggressiv

Alsone said:


> You might want to look at this, 2 points:
> 
> 1. You don't have to make a SORN until 14 days has passed so if your tax expired less than 14 days ago, they have no right to clamp it.
> 
> 2. They could be about to tow it away (within 24 hours of clamping it), then you get storage fees and the possibility of it being crushed:
> 
> LINK: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/UntaxedVehicle/DG_4022072
> 
> If its less than 14 days, then you need to get onto the DVLA straight away about the clamp and get the tax disc bought!


I am going to get it taxed, all my documents came on the weekend and the fact that I got home from hospital at the weekend when all the postoffices have closed didnt help.

Ive paid the fing clampers as they were waiting outside my house to tow my car away even though they left a peice of card saying the car will be removed within 7days of the noticed being issued. Im lucky one nice guy spoke to them and told me otherwise I'd be screwed even worse. 
I was only being given 2hours to pay for the clamp removal or they wold take it away. 
I ended up paying £125 for their 1hr 20mins work.

Trying to get taxed online now
Who the hell works as a clamper anyways? fing scum. I have their number plates and I'm gonna find them and leave few presents for them to come back to, ps, cts :devil:


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## zetec_paul

Did you get a recipt for the £125


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## Shiny

If it was on private property, this sounds more like an individual arrangement that the council will have with a clamping form, like they have in places like Halford's car parks. Are there any notices regarding clamping enforcement or anything contained in your tenancy agreement about the clamping of untaxed vehicles? 

There is no legal requirement (well not yet anyway) to tax a vehicle that is kept off road, although obviously you must SORN it. So i can't see how the clamping is on behalf of VOSA.


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## S63

I suggest you go to your housing association with some evidence of your recent hospitalisation and expalin your mitigating circumstances, if they won't budge let them know politely but firmly just how unjust they are behaving and you feel obliged to seek legal advice, first place might be the Citizens advice bureau...good luck:thumb:


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## dominic84

> If it was on private property, this sounds more like an individual arrangement that the council will have with a clamping form, like they have in places like Halford's car parks. *Are there any notices regarding clamping enforcement or anything contained in your tenancy agreement about the clamping of untaxed vehicles?*


That's what I was going to say, penalties issued for clamping on private property relate to contract law i.e. the penalty issued is for damages in relation to the breech of contract that may have taken place.

However in the case of an untaxed vehicle quite how they could have suffered any loss and therefore be entitled to any form of damages doesn't make sense to me.

I think however you have done the right thing in paying this to avoid the car being removed although I am not sure they would have had any right to anyway.

But now you should try and get the money back as the legal basis for this seems very dubious to me.


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## SubtleAggressiv

Well I spoke to somebody from the housing As. and they told me that what the clampers have done is legal as I didnt have any tax and didnt declare it SORN. 
Its funny because I can have the car as SORN and parked on my driveway and the clampers cant touch it but because I dont have any tax and its parked on my driveway they can!

I got the receipt and am displaying it as requested so I dont get clamped again. As always I take a picture on my phone as a back up just incase that receipt goes missing.

Gonna have to find a way to tax my vehicle in person as I dont have enough money on my card atm to buy online. I've got two weeks but I'll get it done within a few days so the wans cant say st.

They have boards up at the entrance to the estate but as far as I can see nothing within. I dont think many people would stop their cars half in half out on the road and estate to read the parking notice well I wouldnt anyways


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## SubtleAggressiv

dominic84 said:


> That's what I was going to say, penalties issued for clamping on private property relate to contract law i.e. the penalty issued is for damages in relation to the breech of contract that may have taken place.
> 
> However in the case of an untaxed vehicle quite how they could have suffered any loss and therefore be entitled to any form of damages doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> I think however you have done the right thing in paying this to avoid the car being removed although I am not sure they would have had any right to anyway.
> 
> *But now you should try and get the money back as the legal basis for this seems very dubious to me.*


Thanks guys

Is there anyone specifically I can contact, a company/website/guru who knows about what to do?

Oh and another thing, the clampers claim that a letter was sent out warning residents of what they were going to do today but of all the neighbours I spoke to everyone has so far received nothing.

I was involved in a serious accident back in January and Im still not recovered yet and havent earned any money for the past 7months so I will fight this. :devil:


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## Avanti

zetec_paul said:


> I understand *you have 14 days to TAX the car once it's expired* and can still use it on a public road during these 14 days. Infact i was with my friend 3 months back when he got pulled for speeding 92MPH and his TAX was 10days out of date. Police just said you better get this tax'd in the next few days.
> 
> You could of had the tax renewed online and waiting for the tax disk.
> 
> Like said above id be tempted to contact police and maybe DVLA see what they advise.


Gents you can scrap the silly idea that you get 14 days grace, that has long long gone, renewal of VED is so far and wide that there is little excuse not to renew on time.
Even when applying online, the relevant document records are stored on a database and once payment is made, the disc arrives no more than usually 2 days,I have had some arrive the next day. :thumb:

Now back to the OP, something does not quite tally, my bro has had a Spitfire on my Dads drive for years , no sign or fear of it being clamped on the drive, something must havre prompted the location of that vehicle over and above any other unlicensed vehicle


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## kh904

As mentioned above, check you tenancy agreement.

If it's private land (car is off the public road), then any council 'Penalty Charge Notice' (a fine) can't apply.
I'm guessing what you've received is a 'Parking Contravention Notice' (just an invoice). 
Legally they are 2 different things, but to the general public they give the impression that they are the same.

Parking on public roads are covered under statutory laws/acts (between the council & the registered keeper).
Parking on private land is under contract law (between the private landowner and person not the registered keeper).
You can safely ignore the 'PCN' which isn't a real pcn it's just an invoice which you have the choice to agree to pay or not. Don't incriminate yourself and say that you parked it there - keep silent, it's upto them to prove that you agreed to the contract & 'they' have suffered a loss (which really by the sound of it they can't).

You'll get threatening letters increasing the 'invoice' amount & solicitor letters (which are likely to be the same company) and maybe a threat of a debt collector (who has no real legal power & again likely the same company), but you can still ignore it - don't correspond with them. They will not take it to court because they will lose. It's about standing your ground and not being intimidated.

The problem you have had is that you were clamped and faced having the car towed away. How did you pay? If it was a credit card, you can possibly try a chargeback (did you sign any paperwork?). I'm not sure what you can do if you paid by cash (not much unfortunately) or debit card, but sign any paper work regarding payment, sign 'paid under duress' and keep a copy next time. This should help you challenge it when trying to get a refund with your bank.

I must stress that this is only if it's a private firm and not from a council who's issuing tickets.
The same applies if you parked in a lidl's, halfords etc etc which will have signs displayed regarding fines from a private firm (they are in fact scam companies) eg. Parking Eye Ltd, Town & City Parking Ltd etc etc. - you can ignore their 'invoices'.

You should hound the landlord and kick up a fuss! Tell them that you were forced to hand over money under duress & that you were intimidated and blackmailed - you faced having your possessions towed away.

These companies are usually scams and the directors & some people who work for them have very dodgy practices!


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## kh904

SubtleAggressiv said:


> Well I spoke to somebody from the housing As. and they told me that what the clampers have done is legal as I didnt have any tax and didnt declare it SORN.
> Its funny because I can have the car as SORN and parked on my driveway and the clampers cant touch it but because I dont have any tax and its parked on my driveway they can!
> 
> They have boards up at the entrance to the estate but as far as I can see nothing within. I dont think many people would stop their cars half in half out on the road and estate to read the parking notice well I wouldnt anyways


It doesn't make sense, I think they are trying to get out of it. If it's private land, it doesn't need to be taxed. Then it becomes an issue between you the registered keeper and the DVLA.

Plus how would the clampers know if it was SORN or not before issuing an invoice & clamping you?
Surely it's the DVLA who has power to clamp you for no road tax, not any private firm.


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## SubtleAggressiv

Avanti said:


> Gents you can scrap the silly idea that you get 14 days grace, that has long long gone, renewal of VED is so far and wide that there is little excuse not to renew on time.
> Even when applying online, the relevant document records are stored on a database and once payment is made, the disc arrives no more than usually 2 days,I have had some arrive the next day. :thumb:
> 
> Now back to the OP, something does not quite tally, my bro has had a Spitfire on my Dads drive for years , no sign or fear of it being clamped on the drive, something must havre prompted the location of that vehicle over and above any other unlicensed vehicle


Its true there is no grace period anymore I think. Just bad luck I bought the car when I did and the documents only came through on the day the tax ended, which was the weekend and the surgery messed me up so badly I cant get out 

Just contacted Watchdog to see what they can do. No hoping for much but why not?!


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## Shiny

Do you have any Legal Expenses cover under your household contents insurance? They may be able to help you.

My thoughts are that the Housing firm employ the services of a clamping firm to stop people dumping cars there and the like. Do you have to display a parking permit? I reckon the clampers have then taken this to the extreme and clamped yours on the basis it wasn't taxed. 

As mentioned a few times, if it is private land, then the statutory laws and RTA don't apply and it is purely down to whatever arrangement the landlords have put in place. I would like to think that it would never have been the intention of the Landlords for their tenants to be clamped as you have been done.


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## SubtleAggressiv

Shiny said:


> Do you have any Legal Expenses cover under your household contents insurance? They may be able to help you.
> 
> My thoughts are that the Housing firm employ the services of a clamping firm to stop people dumping cars there and the like. Do you have to display a parking permit? I reckon the clampers have then taken this to the extreme and clamped yours on the basis it wasn't taxed.
> 
> As mentioned a few times, if it is private land, then the statutory laws and RTA don't apply and it is purely down to whatever arrangement the landlords have put in place. I would like to think that it would never have been the intention of the Landlords for their tenants to be clamped as you have been done.


I dont have any household contents insurance unfortunately. I am e-mailing the housing group and trying to get someone high up to see how wrong this is. 
There were also a number of other cars clamped aswell. Some on their own driveway and some on the parking spaces provided on the estate.

We currently do not have to display a parking permit. Just another way of stealing money from out of my pocket


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## quattrogmbh

http://moneyclaim.gov.uk against the Clamping company. Its them who you paid, even though they may be acting as agents for the housing association.


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## SubtleAggressiv

quattrogmbh said:


> http://moneyclaim.gov.uk against the Clamping company. Its them who you paid, even though they may be acting as agents for the housing association.


I've seen this already but thank you 

I wonder if I claim will it lead to small claims court?


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## Mini 360

Got it on SORN? If not then fair game....


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## kh904

Mini 360 said:


> Got it on SORN? If not then fair game....


Sorry I have to disagree. 
The point is, any untaxed vehicles are dealt with the DVLA/police. Any private individual or firm has no legal authority (as far as i'm aware) to fine/tow your car for not having any road tax.


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## SubtleAggressiv

No its not SORN. Dont see the point as I was going to get it taxed anyways. 1st time I missed the deadline.

As I cant wait for the dvla's average time of 5days for the tax disc Ill try and get out tomorrow. Spending too much time looking out the window every few minutes thinking the clamper wers gonna come back and screw me over again.

Ill just have to deal with the pain from the stitches and tubes and then I can stop worrying after. 

Thanks to everyone who helped, its much appreciated


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## Scott152

If it was me I would SORN it online straight away then theres no bother really, they cant clamp or tow away and if you get the tax tomorrow or next week it over rides the SORN, its only a few clicks to declare SORN

Scott


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## Alsone

SubtleAggressiv said:


> Who the hell works as a clamper anyways? fing scum. I have their number plates and I'm gonna find them and leave few presents for them to come back to, ps, cts :devil:


The clampers are usually employed by the DVLA.

I knew someone that worked for them. The DVLA supplies the vans and the clamps and they just drive arround estates and the automatic number plate recognition cameras read every vehicles number plate and flag up any not taxed.

That said, I'd get onto the DVLA and ty to reclaim the clamping fee as you were within the 14 day period.


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## Alsone

Avanti said:


> Gents you can scrap the silly idea that you get 14 days grace, that has long long gone,


Not according to the Government's own website:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/UntaxedVehicle/DG_069727



> When SORN isn't needed
> 
> SORN isn't needed if:
> 
> * you sell the vehicle
> * you scrap the vehicle or pass it to a scrap dealer
> * your insurance company has written off the vehicle
> * you take the vehicle abroad permanently
> * you apply for a refund of vehicle tax and don't keep the vehicle
> ** you are keeping the vehicle off the road and untaxed for less than 14 days*
> * your vehicle was last taxed before 31 January 1998





> Using or keeping a vehicle on a public road
> 
> A public road is a road maintained at the public expense, including grass verges and ground adjoining the road.


So it would appear a private driveway is not a public road within the legal definition.


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## KrisP

It's a good idea to get yourself onto the 5ive-o website.

http://www.5ive-o.org/forum/index.php

The serving police officers, magistrates and baliffs will help you out no end.

Kris


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## SubtleAggressiv

Scott152 said:


> If it was me I would SORN it online straight away then theres no bother really, they cant clamp or tow away and if you get the tax tomorrow or next week it over rides the SORN, its only a few clicks to declare SORN
> 
> Scott


Didnt know that. Thanks for the info. I seriously doubt that the clampers would have known if my car was SORN or not. The way they have done things is very dodgy imo. They would've just seen the outdated tax disc and clamped me anyways.



Alsone said:


> The clampers are usually employed by the DVLA.
> 
> I knew someone that worked for them. The DVLA supplies the vans and the clamps and they just drive arround estates and the automatic number plate recognition cameras read every vehicles number plate and flag up any not taxed.
> 
> That said, I'd get onto the DVLA and ty to reclaim the clamping fee as you were within the 14 day period.


Yeah ive seen some of these vans driving around. But beause I was parked on my driveway and not on a public road I dont think they would've been legally allowed to clamp me. The company that clamped me is called Premier Parking Security LTD i think and I believe they just work for the housing As.



KrisP said:


> It's a good idea to get yourself onto the 5ive-o website.
> 
> http://www.5ive-o.org/forum/index.php
> 
> The serving police officers, magistrates and baliffs will help you out no end.
> 
> Kris


I will do, thank you for the link. The more I think about it I might have a small chance of getting my money back from those thieves.

If the clampers are not working for the DVLA then what right do they have to clamp my car for out of date tax and extort money from me? Especially on my driveway 



Alsone said:


> Not according to the Government's own website:
> 
> http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/UntaxedVehicle/DG_069727
> 
> So it would appear a private driveway is not a public road within the legal definition.


Thanks for the info. The Housing Association probably thinks differently as to what they can do to untaxed cars on their tenants driveways but I'll challenge them if find out that I'm right in the eyes of the law.

Thank you guys for all this useful info


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## andy monty

can you not get the car on bricks/ axle stands then watch the prats scratch their heads when they realise they cant clamp it :devil: (just makesure they cant get in with a hiab


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## kh904

SubtleAggressiv said:


> Didnt know that. Thanks for the info. I seriously doubt that the clampers would have known if my car was SORN or not. The way they have done things is very dodgy imo. They would've just seen the outdated tax disc and clamped me anyways.
> 
> Yeah ive seen some of these vans driving around. But beause I was parked on my driveway and not on a public road I dont think they would've been legally allowed to clamp me. The company that clamped me is called Premier Parking Security LTD i think and I believe they just work for the housing As.
> 
> I will do, thank you for the link. The more I think about it I might have a small chance of getting my money back from those thieves.
> 
> If the clampers are not working for the DVLA then what right do they have to clamp my car for out of date tax and extort money from me? Especially on my driveway
> 
> Thanks for the info. The Housing Association probably thinks differently as to what they can do to untaxed cars on their tenants driveways but I'll challenge them if find out that I'm right in the eyes of the law.
> 
> Thank you guys for all this useful info


I would consider getting the local residents together who have been affected by this parking company, and put pressure on the housing association. 
Go to citizens advice and see what advice they can give you, maybe tell the housing association what legal rights of action you have.

Also research the company on the net - many of these companies/directors have very shady practices/crimal records, and you can use this against the housing association.

OR

You can sue the parking company AND the land owner in a joint action (small claims court which can be done online for about £30 iirc) - taking money with menaces and under duress
It should be both, because the parking company will unlikely pay up - they tend to ignore CCJ's, wind up and start up under another name.

I would go directly to the land owner first & give them the opportunity to refund you money, but them them know that you & others will be looking into taking them to small claims court.


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## SubtleAggressiv

andy monty said:


> can you not get the car on bricks/ axle stands then watch the prats scratch their heads when they realise they cant clamp it :devil: (just makesure they cant get in with a hiab


lol i already bought road tax today so its safe until they come up with another BS reason to steal some money off me :thumb: Mind you it was so painful walking down the local High St i thought i was gonna collapse, luckily my aunt gave me a lift nearby and then back home so it wasnt so bad. :driver:



kh904 said:


> I would consider getting the local residents together who have been affected by this parking company, and put pressure on the housing association.
> Go to citizens advice and see what advice they can give you, maybe tell the housing association what legal rights of action you have.
> 
> Also research the company on the net - many of these companies/directors have very shady practices/crimal records, and you can use this against the housing association.
> 
> OR
> 
> You can sue the parking company AND the land owner in a joint action (small claims court which can be done online for about £30 iirc) - taking money with menaces and under duress
> It should be both, because the parking company will unlikely pay up - they tend to ignore CCJ's, wind up and start up under another name.
> 
> I would go directly to the land owner first & give them the opportunity to refund you money, but them them know that you & others will be looking into taking them to small claims court.


Great minds think alike lol just not so keen on going to court... have to see how things go and not give up against these scum. CAB here i come!:car:

Just read the e-mail reply from the 'appeals manager' of the clamping company and he states "Firstly any vehicle parked on southern homes property wihout displaying valid road tax is deemed to be abandoned wether the vehicle is sorn off the road or not .

Southern homes have strict policies on untaxed vehicles and we are contracted to clamp and remove any vehicle that does not adhere those policies and conditions wether the vehicle was parked on the drive or not it is still the property of southern homes."

Hmmm.. when I called up their headoffice I spoke to a lady who told me that I could declare it SORN, keep it on my driveway and they cannot touch it. Somebody doesnt know what they're talking about...


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## glymauto

I'm a little confused.

*1. Who clamped the vehicle:* a contractor working for DVLA or a contractor working for the housing authority?

*2. Why was the vehicle clamped:* no tax by DVLA or some other infringement of (such as crossing a parking bay)

*3. Why wasnt the vehicle taxed on the day of purchase?*
when you buy a car you're given the tear off portion at the bottom of the V5 which allows you to tax the vehicle.

*4. Why wasnt the vehicle SORN*
The vehicle has been untaxed for over a month. Its free to SORN and you could have reversed it at any time.


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## Mike_182

glymauto said:


> *4. Why wasnt the vehicle SORN*
> The vehicle has been untaxed for over a month. Its free to SORN and you could have reversed it at any time.


It's been untaxed for 4 days? 

No wonder you're confused...


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## Shiny

Shiny said:


> My thoughts are that the Housing firm employ the services of a clamping firm to stop people dumping cars there and the like. Do you have to display a parking permit? I reckon the clampers have then taken this to the extreme and clamped yours on the basis it wasn't taxed.
> 
> As mentioned a few times, if it is private land, then the statutory laws and RTA don't apply and it is purely down to whatever arrangement the landlords have put in place. I would like to think that it would never have been the intention of the Landlords for their tenants to be clamped as you have been done.





SubtleAggressiv said:


> Just read the e-mail reply from the 'appeals manager' of the clamping company and he states "Firstly any vehicle parked on southern homes property wihout displaying valid road tax is deemed to be abandoned wether the vehicle is sorn off the road or not .
> 
> Southern homes have strict policies on untaxed vehicles and we are contracted to clamp and remove any vehicle that does not adhere those policies and conditions wether the vehicle was parked on the drive or not it is still the property of southern homes."
> 
> Hmmm.. when I called up their headoffice I spoke to a lady who told me that I could declare it SORN, keep it on my driveway and they cannot touch it. Somebody doesnt know what they're talking about...


As i thought mate.

Personally i would get back in touch with Southern Homes. Did they tell you it was OK to park it there before it got clamped? If so, you have a very good case for Southern Homes to ensure their clamping contractors reimburse you.

If not, again i would get back in touch with Southern Homes and explain your situation regarding your operation/mitigating circumstances, how it was only untaxed for 4 days and you were unable to tax online due to the new ownership etc and play the sympathy card, how harsh you have been treated, especially for a model tenant (providing you are of course a model tenant) who always pays his rent on time and is never any trouble.


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## bigmc

Cut the thing off (only damage the lock if possible) and hand it in to the police station as lost property.


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## SubtleAggressiv

glymauto said:


> I'm a little confused.
> 
> *1. Who clamped the vehicle:* a contractor working for DVLA or a contractor working for the housing authority?
> 
> *2. Why was the vehicle clamped:* no tax by DVLA or some other infringement of (such as crossing a parking bay)
> 
> *3. Why wasnt the vehicle taxed on the day of purchase?*
> when you buy a car you're given the tear off portion at the bottom of the V5 which allows you to tax the vehicle.
> 
> *4. Why wasnt the vehicle SORN*
> The vehicle has been untaxed for over a month. Its free to SORN and you could have reversed it at any time.


You should read my previous posts because the answers are there 
As for the vehicle being untaxed for a month then my answer is NO it was not.


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## SubtleAggressiv

Shiny said:


> As i thought mate.
> 
> Personally i would get back in touch with Southern Homes. Did they tell you it was OK to park it there before it got clamped? If so, you have a very good case for Southern Homes to ensure their clamping contractors reimburse you.
> 
> If not, again i would get back in touch with Southern Homes and explain your situation regarding your operation/mitigating circumstances, how it was only untaxed for 4 days and you were unable to tax online due to the new ownership etc and play the sympathy card, how harsh you have been treated, especially for a model tenant (providing you are of course a model tenant) who always pays his rent on time and is never any trouble.


Im just waiting for Southern Homes to reply to my e-mail. Will follow that with a formal letter and/or phone calls and give them the biggest headache I can 



bigmc said:


> Cut the thing off (only damage the lock if possible) and hand it in to the police station as lost property.


Lol I was seriously considering it as my friend has a big angle grinder and hes cut them off when he was clamped before but these vultures were hanging around my car waiting to tow it after 2 hrs even though the notice stated '7 days'. Dirty tactics 

But thank you for the great ideas.


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## kh904

SubtleAggressiv said:


> Just read the e-mail reply from the 'appeals manager' of the clamping company and he states "Firstly any vehicle parked on southern homes property wihout displaying valid road tax is deemed to be abandoned wether the vehicle is sorn off the road or not .
> 
> Southern homes have strict policies on untaxed vehicles and we are contracted to clamp and remove any vehicle that does not adhere those policies and conditions wether the vehicle was parked on the drive or not it is still the property of southern homes."
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Firstly their appeals process- there isn't one tbh. They are for profit organisation, they are not going to refund you because they are compassionate or for any customer service (keep the customer happy) reason like a high street shop for eg., as the very nature of their business makes the customer unhappy (those paying the fine).
> 
> Secondly, surely they are still trespassing on your land (even though you are renting from the association) if they step on your driveway?
> So what if you had an untaxed car garaged? Would they demand to come on to the property and enforce the rules, or come into your home for any other reason since it's their property by that logic.
> 
> Thirdly, people have the 'lawful' right to own a car and not pay any road tax (there's a process to this though - it's about deregistering the car and claiming ownership back from the DVLA etc), just as people have the lawful right to own a TV and not have to pay a BBC licence fee (morally that's a separate debate).
> The housing association/clampers shouldn't assume that the car has been dumped.


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## Shiny

They were acting on the instruction of the Landlords, therefore in my opinion it should be taken up with the Landlords and, if the Landlords ask the clampers to reimburse, surely there shouldn't be any issues.

Going direct to the clampers won't get the op anywhere.


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## kh904

I agree, go straight to the land owner


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## VixMix

Found THIS on MoneySavingExpert site. Seems to be a common problem. They advise PEPIPOO for legal advice. See HERE for the corresponding link in Pepipoo for the ladies case against the "clampers".


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## SubtleAggressiv

Shiny said:


> They were acting on the instruction of the Landlords, therefore in my opinion it should be taken up with the Landlords and, if the Landlords ask the clampers to reimburse, surely there shouldn't be any issues.
> 
> Going direct to the clampers won't get the op anywhere.





kh904 said:


> I agree, go straight to the land owner


I will draw up a plan and get moving against these companies. I know they're wrong and will pursue this. Thanks



VixMix said:


> Found THIS on MoneySavingExpert site. Seems to be a common problem. They advise PEPIPOO for legal advice. See HERE for the corresponding link in Pepipoo for the ladies case against the "clampers".


Some great links and great inspiration to fight back. Very useful thank you


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## glymauto

Mike_182 said:


> It's been untaxed for 4 days?
> 
> No wonder you're confused...


My apologies.....That'll teach me to 'skim' a topic 

Four bloody days and they're clamping your car? Bang out of order.

From what I've read, the fine would come automatically from DVLA via the post if you didnt SORN the car.

A private firm (whether that be a clamper or housing association) has no right to interfere with your motor.

They are not obligied by law to collect tax (car tax disc) or issue penalties for non payment of government tax (car tax).

I was under the impression a clamp was applied to the car for non payment of a road fund licence and the clampers were working on behalf of DVLA. I also mis-read the dates and (stupidly!) thought the car was untaxed for just over one month.

Private companies (HA's or clampers) should have no right to interfere with a persons vehicle on the spurious grounds that the road fund licence has 'just' expired.

If this anecdote has been relayed accurately, then it has far raching consequnces for us all.

I have paid my VAT late in the past (another from of government tax) and this ancendote seems to imply that the goverment (or any other person) has rights to impound my property.

If the facts are correct and the road fund licence has only just expired, then we all need to be worried.


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## SubtleAggressiv

glymauto said:


> My apologies.....That'll teach me to 'skim' a topic
> 
> Four bloody days and they're clamping your car? Bang out of order.
> 
> If the facts are correct and the road fund licence has only just expired, then we all need to be worried.


Thats all right. Yeah the road tax ran out on the 31st July but I always thought that it meant the 31st was the last day your tax is valid  oh well no matter.


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## VixMix

glymauto said:


> If this anecdote has been relayed accurately, then it has far raching consequnces for us all.
> 
> I have paid my VAT late in the past (another from of government tax) and this ancendote seems to imply that the goverment (or any other person) has rights to impound my property.
> 
> If the facts are correct and the road fund licence has only just expired, then we all need to be worried.


I think that the clamping and threat of impounding the vehicle will actually be for NOT PAYING A PARKING PENALTY not for road tax infringement as this is not their remit. Please be aware that these companies operate on the fringes of the law and often outside it. The tenancy agreement that the OP signed (maybe - this is often overlooked) will state some "terms" that the tenant must stick to, generally being properly parked within marked bays and keeping the car in a lawful state i.e. taxed. The "penalty" will be keeping his car on the private managed grounds against his "agreement". There should be notices around the area which point to the fact that there are parking restrictions in place. The clamping is carried out "_to ensure payment of the penalty_.

Websites like MoneySavingExpert and Pepipoo exist to educate the public about the unlawfulness of these scams which are operated often under full knowledge of Local Authorities. Effectively the clampers cannot issue "penalties" and the LA or Housing Management Operator cannot hold a persons property to ransom (clamping) to ensure payment of a claimed charge. Although the police will deny it (they just don't want involved) the taking of a vehicle in these circumstances may even be unlawful.

To the OP, read up on Pepipoo or post your own thread and get a letter off to the Clampers and the Local Authority (or management agent) informing them of your intention to take legal action...


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## VixMix

Oh and according to one of the replies from a Local Authority in a similar case - their own guidance recognises the 14 day grace period. 

The grace period existed because (in the past certainly) up to the 14th of any month - when you pay Road Fund Licence/Vehicle Exice Duty it is valid from the 1st of the month - therefore you are able to have your vehicle adequately taxed. After the 14th the month the tax would be for the following month, meaning your vehicle was untaxed for 1 month. The offence up to and including the 14th of the month is failure to display a valid tax disc.

I am not sure how much of this is still the case now that you can purchase online from the 5th of the month onward.


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## Alsone

I'm not at all sure its legal to clamp you even with the Housing Authorities terms and conditions because technically you're vehicle wasn't untaxed until the 14 day period had passed and you hadn't declared SORN. 

Yes the renewal date may have passed so it was overdue for renewal, but if the DVLA state you legally have 14 days in which to re-tax or declare SORN then I think technically it doesn't legally become legally untaxed until this period has expired even though the date on disc has passed.

In my opinion the Housing Association clampers jumped the gun and clamped your vehicle unlawfully because technically it hadn't become untaxed in the eyes of the law because you were still within the 14 day renewal / declaration period.


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## Mike_182

As above really, it's not untaxed until a week on Saturday. They jumped the gun - make sure you give them hell for it. I'd have been inclined to let them take the car, and then take them to court for loss of use of the car and additional stress incurred as a result of this action. It'd make front page of your local paper at that point and a few more like that and it'd make the Daily Fail - at which point people high up start to notice just how big a problem it is. By paying them and shouting at the HA, all you do is win for yourself...

However, that said there's only one person that's going to look after you - it's all good and well me saying these things but you can bet I'd be covering my **** if they came and took mine away!


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## deanchilds

I didnt want to renew my tax in July as wanted it to go on the August accounts, left it until the 2nd and then shat myself after reading this and rushed to the post office for 5.30pm to sort it!


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## SubtleAggressiv

deanchilds said:


> I didnt want to renew my tax in July as wanted it to go on the August accounts, left it until the 2nd and then shat myself after reading this and rushed to the post office for 5.30pm to sort it!


Lol there are people out there who, unfortunately make a living from bullying and tricking innocent people from their money. They depend on underhand tactics, intimidation and victims not wanting to fight. Its best not to risk it with these scum as they're not going anywhere soon 



Mike_182 said:


> As above really, it's not untaxed until a week on Saturday. They jumped the gun - make sure you give them hell for it. I'd have been inclined to let them take the car, and then take them to court for loss of use of the car and additional stress incurred as a result of this action. It'd make front page of your local paper at that point and a few more like that and it'd make the Daily Fail - at which point people high up start to notice just how big a problem it is. By paying them and shouting at the HA, all you do is win for yourself...
> 
> However, that said there's only one person that's going to look after you - it's all good and well me saying these things but you can bet I'd be covering my **** if they came and took mine away!


Yeah I didnt fancy the extra £200 or so they wanted to take for towing my car. But I will try and unleash hell on these basds, they deserve it :thumb:



VixMix said:


> I think that the clamping and threat of impounding the vehicle will actually be for NOT PAYING A PARKING PENALTY not for road tax infringement as this is not their remit. Please be aware that these companies operate on the fringes of the law and often outside it. The tenancy agreement that the OP signed (maybe - this is often overlooked) will state some "terms" that the tenant must stick to, generally being properly parked within marked bays and keeping the car in a lawful state i.e. taxed. The "penalty" will be keeping his car on the private managed grounds against his "agreement". There should be notices around the area which point to the fact that there are parking restrictions in place. The clamping is carried out "_to ensure payment of the penalty_.
> 
> Websites like MoneySavingExpert and Pepipoo exist to educate the public about the unlawfulness of these scams which are operated often under full knowledge of Local Authorities. Effectively the clampers cannot issue "penalties" and the LA or Housing Management Operator cannot hold a persons property to ransom (clamping) to ensure payment of a claimed charge. Although the police will deny it (they just don't want involved) the taking of a vehicle in these circumstances may even be unlawful.
> 
> To the OP, read up on Pepipoo or post your own thread and get a letter off to the Clampers and the Local Authority (or management agent) informing them of your intention to take legal action...


I've posted this same thread on Pepipoo, hopefully I can find out a bit more about how to fight this. As for clamping me because of non payment of a penalty charge, there was no penalty charge issued. Even more dodgy stuff from them


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## Ronnie

cut it off and post it back to them minus the missing link they cannot do you for theft or damage then. we did it when they clamped my mates lorry. the silly twits clamped the lifting axle so he lifted it up and drove off past them.. posted it back and never heard a thing about it.. but your sar should have a sorn if it does then do them for trespass and criminal damage to private property.


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## Mike_182

Ronnie said:


> but your sar should have a sorn if it does then do them for trespass and criminal damage to private property.


Didn't need one. Up until the 14th, as long as you're not using it or keeping it on a public highway then you're not committing an offence - any tax disk you buy up until and including the 14th of the month will pay for the time previous to that. He had 10 more days to declare SORN or tax his car :thumb:


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## SubtleAggressiv

Mike_182 said:


> Didn't need one. Up until the 14th, as long as you're not using it or keeping it on a public highway then you're not committing an offence - any tax disk you buy up until and including the 14th of the month will pay for the time previous to that. He had 10 more days to declare SORN or tax his car :thumb:


I have already e-mailed the Housing As. and im just waiting for thier response before I start formally requesting my money back and /or taking them to small claims court. :thumb:


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## Cleanerbeemer

Reading this makes me glad that they deemed clamping illegal up here in Scotland!! One less hassle to deal with!!


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## Cleanerbeemer

Avanti said:


> Even when applying online, the relevant document records are stored on a database and once payment is made, the disc arrives no more than usually 2 days,I have had some arrive the next day. :thumb:


I tried to tax my Mums car online before I went away on holiday for her but the DVLA online wouldnt let me as they said the car wasn't insured on the MID database!! We went to the MID site and put in the reg and right enough back it came as uninsured. Called the broker to see what was going on and it turns out that a glitch at the insurance company office meant that the cars insurance hadn't been registered with them!! I had the same last year when I looked up my reg on MID for my Range Rover Sport and it said I was still driving the XC90 that I'd traded in for the RRS 6 moonths previously!!

These online things are only as good as the data they're fed so I wouldn't put too much credence in what's on them!!


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## SubtleAggressiv

Yeah people think computers systems and databases are foolproof but its only as good as the person operating it. Human error is the one constant thing we can rely on


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