# Sleeper wall



## stealthwolf (Sep 24, 2008)

I want to lay some oak sleepers 200x100 size to make a low retaining wall. 300mm high. It's to partition the back of the garden from the lawn. I plan to make a U shaped wall, and the "open" bit of that will be where the fence is.

I plan to dig a small trench, lay some MOT type 1, lay one course of sleeper and attach with brackets or stakes like this:
https://www.indooroutdoors.co.uk/a/...per-driveway-path-pathway-edge-edging-bracket

Then stagger and lay the next course, with screws into the base layer. Repeat with the final layer.

Does this seem reasonable or should I do something else?


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## JoeyJoeJo (Jan 3, 2014)

We had our back garden done professionally last year with one and two sleeper high walls/terraces. The guys used 100x100 fence posts to mount the sleepers to after the posts had been fixed in approx two feet holes with a light mix like postcrete. No type one and rock solid.

I had placed a couple of sleepers in my front garden with spikes like those above and they took the pee for a couple of days.

Edited to add picture, you can get the gist of it. The type one at the bottom is for the patio so ignore that, the sleepers are just in normal ground, while it was being constructed, there were multiple large people using them as walkways, only supported by the posts as the sleepers were slightly elevated. As mentioned, rock solid.










Point below about source of sleepers is a good one, actual sleepers sourced as ex railway stock have some pretty nasty chemicals you wouldn't want anywhere near your house/plants/pets/kids. The modern treated for garden use cut specially are fine.


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## packard (Jun 8, 2009)

We did this in previous home, we just fixed some 3x3 and post mixed in, worked fine. What I would say is we made error on the sleepers and it turned out they weeped oil/sap whilst they looked very good you would never want to sit on them etc through fear of damaging clothing. Make sure you check the source of the sleepers


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## stealthwolf (Sep 24, 2008)

Thanks. The sleepers will probably be new/untreated. I may then add some sort of coating or treatment. The MOT type 1 was to help keep the sleepers dry as they’ll be on clay soil. I wasn’t sure if the brackets would suffice. Happy to use postcrete - used the stuff for a washing line so I have the post digger tool too.


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## JoeyJoeJo (Jan 3, 2014)

Mine is pure clay and the new pressure treated stuff is rated for ground contact, they reckon easy 15-20 year life. All the sleepers I looked at were new but pressure treated, same as fencing materials, so sure they'll be fine.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I'm not convinced you will find any existing timber treatment that will give you a 20 year lifespan for timber in contact with the ground these days. Be lucky to get 5 years out of some of the fenceposts I've come across.

If you want it to live, creosote is the only way unfortunately.


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## bigbrother (Jun 30, 2011)

stealthwolf said:


> I want to lay some oak sleepers 200x100 size to make a low retaining wall. 300mm high. It's to partition the back of the garden from the lawn. I plan to make a U shaped wall, and the "open" bit of that will be where the fence is.
> 
> I plan to dig a small trench, lay some MOT type 1, lay one course of sleeper and attach with brackets or stakes like this:
> https://www.indooroutdoors.co.uk/a/...per-driveway-path-pathway-edge-edging-bracket
> ...


I have done many sleeper walls and they are very easy to do as long as you get the first corse level, they best way to do it is to lay like bricks i.e lay them flat, i think you have that in mind any way, to lay them on the side is awkward to do and doesn't look as appealing on the eye, but if your budget won't stretch to laying flat the other option is much cheaper.You don't really need mot i use sand and gravel mix and a good blob at each end and the middle. If like you say you are making a 'U' shape it will hold it self together so in theory you don't need any stakes but to be sure put some in, also i would back fill the sleepers with gravel at lease 6" wide just to stop them sitting in moisture all the time.
Be aware Oak sleepers can be heavy and you will need a very sharp saw as they are hard wood, and predrill holes for any screws (timberlok are the best).


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## GC#65 (Nov 8, 2014)

If you have wood that will be in constant contact with soil, you should think about some sort of damp proof membrane. You can find damp course plastics that are quite wide, typically for a double skin brick wall, that you could use on the soil side of the wall. And you could use normal damp course on the under side too, even if it is to sit on hardcore. You can trim it nicely so you can’t see it.
If you are using oak, then you will need really good tools, saws, drill bits.
The other thing with oak, is that over time, it creates its own patina, which has a level of waterproofing, so for the bits you see, you might not need to treat it.
Oak is a beautiful wood and keeps on moving and doing it’s thing for some time after being cut. In a few years you might find the original wall you built has a slightly different shape.


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## Blue Al (Sep 13, 2015)

Where are people buying their sleepers from in the south midlands ?

(North Oxfordshire) looking to make a raised bed for veg, although its tempting to build from concrete blocks as I’m on clay I’m forever patching rendering on previous ones and intended position is quite close to mature palm trees so I don’t wish to be digging deep and disturbing the roots


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