# Going for the 60D - which telephoto lens?



## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

Hi folks,

Thanks to the advice on him I'm going to plump for a 60D. The next question is which telephoto lens to go for.

The options in my price range are:

Canon 50-250f4-f5.6 IS II (Cheap end of the scale)
Canon 70-300f4-f5.6 IS USM (Mid range)
Canon 70-200f4 L USM (Non IS and probably a good second hand version)

I've had a look through a lot of the pictures I've taken lately which were on a friend's 1000D with the old 55-250 non IS lens and I do go over the 200mm range a bit to fill the frame but would the extra quality of the 'L' mean I could crop the picture more and with better results after if required?

My other option at some stage (say Christmas!) is to get a 1.4 teleconverter which I could use on the 70-200 and that would bring my range back up a bit although push me back to f5.6 from what I understand.

Thanks again for the advice.

Stevie


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

What is it you're taking photos off at the tele end?

If its something fast moving (birds in flight, racing cars) the constant f4 lens will be more beneficial than a slower lens with IS, if you can manage with the shorter range. Remember IS combats user/camera movement but can't help with subject movement.

If its slower or more static subjects that you're shooting then you don't necessarily need the faster aperture at the tele end and the extra reach of the 70-300mm might suit you better.


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## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

It would mostly be used to photograph RC planes and helicopters in flight. They tend to be moving fairly fast and because we fly in the evenings light isn't always brilliant.

Thanks

Stevie


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## SBerlyn (Nov 9, 2008)

Dropped you an fbmessage matey 

S


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Definitely want a faster lens then but, if the light is poor, you might even struggle with f4. Could be worthwhile saving a bit more to get the Canon 70-200 f2.8, or maybe even Sigma 70-200mm f2.8.

Try renting an f4 for a couple of days and see how you get on perhaps


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## dubb (Aug 27, 2009)

m1pui said:


> Definitely want a faster lens then but, if the light is poor, you might even struggle with f4. Could be worthwhile saving a bit more to get the Canon 70-200 f2.8, or maybe even Sigma 70-200mm f2.8.
> 
> Try renting an f4 for a couple of days and see how you get on perhaps


Just had a quick read over this thread and the quoted post above is good :wave:

I'm currently in the market for a 70-200 f/4 myself, I mainly take motorsport & landscape photos, so the 70-200 is an ideal place to start.

With your comment about the evening flying the recommendation about the f/2.8 might be handy. It's more expensive yes, but it lets in more light and will be quicker at lower light conditions.

I'll be plopping for the f/4 as 99% of my photography is done in daylight conditions.

Try them out and see, it CAN be expensive to rent an L lens but in the long run it'll be worth it.

Hope we've helped!


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

I've used this place and they were very easy to deal with. http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk

Ordered it online, chose the weekend/days on the calendar on the website. They sent it out by courier (TNT I think) in a security sealed Pelicase. Use it for however long you have it and their courier comes back to your home/delivery address on the collection day and picks it up. Really couldn't be any easier.

I don't think I had to pay a deposit, but I did have to fax/email them some ID (bank statement and drivers licence IIRC). But, I think, once you've done it they keep it on file so any subsequent bookings are even more straight forward.

There's quite a few alternatives thoughGoogle: camera lens rental

The prices aren't too bad. I think they're cheaper if you can do midweek rather than weekend, and it's very handy for getting a "real life" try before you buy.


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## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

Hi guys,

In the end I ordered a 70-300 IS USM. I really would need a f2.8 so I'll wait and hopefully get an L in the future. I've a 18-55 IS II and I'll likely get a 50mm f1.8 mk11 shortly. I knew this would be expensive! Love a super wide angle!

Stevie


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## JoshG1992 (Aug 16, 2011)

If you can afford any form of L glass buy L glass. Period.


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## JoshG1992 (Aug 16, 2011)

So, turns out i replied to this after having it open to long to see the most recent post  ignore me, i'll get my coat...


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## Scotty Pro (Nov 12, 2008)

The best thing to do is always buy the best glass you can afford, if you cannot afford it, then save up. L Glass you keep forever, bodies come and go :thumb:

Apart from the better images the build quality is far superior to consumer grade lenses.


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## Buck (Jan 16, 2008)

RP Stevie said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> In the end I ordered a 70-300 IS USM. I really would need a f2.8 so I'll wait and hopefully get an L in the future. I've a 18-55 IS II and I'll likely get a 50mm f1.8 mk11 shortly. I knew this would be expensive! Love a super wide angle!
> 
> Stevie


Stevie

With the 60D you can increase the ISO to allow you to get the most out of the 70-300 without degrading the picture quality too much.

_f_2.8 is only one stop from _f_4.0 so dropping your ISO to 200 instead of 100 will allow you to achieve the same faster shutter speed. Drop your ISO further to 400 will allow you to move your shutter speed two further stops and so on.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

But unless you've got a particularly bright/fine day, you'll possibly find yourself shooting at a minimum of ISO 400 to freeze action shots, even at f2.8.

Although that's still not really a problem with the recent/current crop of sensors and noise reduction technologies


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## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

Thanks for the replies. Just got the camera and the kit 18-55 IS II lens and the 75-300 IS USM.

These were just a few to see what I could do quickly. All were taken with the kit lens and all hand held including the two at the end were I was holding the other lens in the other hand! Unfortunately as I'm sure you'll be able to guess the 24-70 L is a fake - a flask! Looks the part though!

Looking forward to getting a really good play with it outside (bucketing rain at the minute) but so far so good - seems to be really good build quality.



































Thanks again

Stevie


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## EddieB (May 13, 2006)

m1pui said:


> But unless you've got a particularly bright/fine day, you'll possibly find yourself shooting at a minimum of ISO 400 to freeze action shots, even at f2.8.
> 
> Although that's still not really a problem with the recent/current crop of sensors and noise reduction technologies


What sort of shutter speeds we talking here? I shoot 99% of the time at ISO 100 with my Sigma 120-400 no problems what so ever. The only time I've had to increase my ISO is actually when shooting a rally at twilight...

Below image was taken on a dull overcast day at ISO 100 1/100 F11.0


IMG_5561 by Ed Bookless, on Flickr

This was shot at ISO 800 - and I don't think it's too bad


Jim Clark Rally by Ed Bookless, on Flickr

Although it is nice to have the option of opening up to F2.8 it's not the be all and end all in my books - especially when starting out.


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## Buck (Jan 16, 2008)

m1pui said:


> But unless you've got a particularly bright/fine day, you'll possibly find yourself shooting at a minimum of ISO 400 to freeze action shots, even at f2.8.
> 
> Although that's still not really a problem with the recent/current crop of sensors and noise reduction technologies


Not with the more modern sensors (I think the 60D is a DIGIC4)

You should be able to shoot comfortably at ISO100 and _f_4.0 even on overcast days

Shifting to ISO400 giving two stops improvement will be sufficient in most instances and ISO800 will still give acceptable IQ for most situations


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## Buck (Jan 16, 2008)

edit: just seen Eddie's reply - :thumb:


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

EddieB said:


> What sort of shutter speeds we talking here? I shoot 99% of the time at ISO 100 with my Sigma 120-400 no problems what so ever. The only time I've had to increase my ISO is actually when shooting a rally at twilight...


In the earlier posts he said he shoots in the evening, which I'm guessing is after 6pm/around now, when they're finished work, etc. I don't know much/anything about RC helicopters but, if they're moving quickly and relatively unpredictably, I would've thought you'd be needing something about 1/1000 or 1/500 to keep the helicopter sharp but still have a bit of rotation in the blades.


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## EddieB (May 13, 2006)

m1pui said:


> In the earlier posts he said he shoots in the evening, which I'm guessing is after 6pm/around now, when they're finished work, etc. I don't know much/anything about RC helicopters but, if they're moving quickly and relatively unpredictably, I would've thought you'd be needing something about 1/1000 or 1/500 to keep the helicopter sharp but still have a bit of rotation in the blades.


true - would probably still slow the shutter speed down a canny bit though... I find anything faster than 1/160th the feeling of motion starts to disappear.

Anyhows - Stevie looking forward to seeing the photos! Let us know how you get on with the lens etc to give us some answers


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

EddieB said:


> true - would probably still slow the shutter speed down a canny bit though... I find anything faster than 1/160th the feeling of motion starts to disappear.
> 
> Anyhows - *Stevie looking forward to seeing the photos! *Let us know how you get on with the lens etc to give us some answers


After having a bit of a look around, so do i!

http://www.flickr.com/groups/[email protected]/pool/with/7333677824/#photo_7333677824


TDR by cfaobam, on Flickr

It's quite a few years I'm going back, but I used to see people flying them at Washington (somewhere along Pattinson Road) but never really stopped to have a proper look. Makes me wish I had now!!


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Absolutely sorry for, sort of, hijacking your thread, but I had to post these 2 up too 


Align T-Rex 600 touch the ground by Ariel L, on Flickr


Top Gun 2 by stuad70, on Flickr


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## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

The two TDR's inverted is a class shot - some price of heli's to be so close to the ground!

Had a look back through some of my pictures and found that I've been shooting when the light is disappearing at 1/640 or 1/800 (and sometimes faster) - probably why I've so much noise in my pictures and they are quite dark. Further back I had better results with a lower shutter speed and still had good motion blur so I'll slow it down with the new camera and see what happens. That was with a friends 1000D and the older 55-250 lens without IS.

Got this 1/200 with f6.3 and ISO 200:








​If they all came out like that I'd be happy!

Stevie


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## bretti_kivi (Apr 22, 2008)

I've been shooting rally at 1/500 and don't find there's a problem, but then I've also jacked up ISO to 1k to suit on occasion (I tend to let TAv work, i.e 1/800+f10 and let the ISO be sorted). And I prefer to mildly underexpose those as I don't want blown highlights.

- Bret


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## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

UPDATE:

I've had the camera since Wednesday and I'm up to 1800 shutter actuations! Tonight was the first time I was at the airport to fly and photograph. As it turned out only a few off us went but it meant I was able to get one of the guys to fly my plane so I could photograph it for a change!

First up a small private (full size) plane on take off. I was setting up my kit when he appeared so didn't have time to get into the manual setting and went for the pre-programmed sport mode which froze the plane.








This should have been a great picture of a P51 Mustang dropping it's bomb but unfortunately the direction the sun was shinning turned the plane black. That said it was navy to start with. Pity but I'll get it another night.

















My own plane:









And the pick of the evening I think.

This was taken at 1/160 and f7.1. Went with a slower speed to try and get more movement but think I might have went to slow going by the amount of slightly blurred shots I had.








​
Criticisms and comments always welcome.

Stevie


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## EddieB (May 13, 2006)

For a first attempt I think you've done well! It'll take lots of practice to get your panning technique spot on.

Find a shutter speed you get a good keeper rate at and then start slowing down the shutter speed. For insntance my keeper rate at 1/160th is about 90%, I'm now moving my shutter speed right down to between 1/60th and 1/100th of a sec when panning.

Check this photoshop guide as well for post editing as you may find that you want to shoot at a faster speed and then add the blurry effect later...

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=353209


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Well done Stevie well nice like that black plane, what lens did you settle on and how much are they thanks


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## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

Thanks for the comments. I ended up going with the 75-300 IS USM and bought a second hand one from MPB Photographic. They were very good - the lens is absolutely spotless - not a mark on it and it was £249.99. Arrived the next day as well. Will definitely be buying from them in the future. I'll probably always be sorry that I missed a 70-200 L that I could have bought for £310 delivered although it didn't have IS and I need the longer the reach.

Thanks

Stevie


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## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

Guys, I've gone completely mad and sold the 75-300 already with the intention of picking up the 70-200 f/4 L USM (non IS) but now I'm torn between doing that or buying this - a Sigma 70-200mm f2.8 APO EX DG Macro HSM II.

I know the f/2.8 would be very useful for what I photograph but I'm not sure whether to go for the older design and stick with Canon or take a chance on better pictures with the Sigma and not have the bigger brand.

Would really appreciate your input.

Stevie

(PS. I sold the other telephoto to a guy in the flying club!)


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## Buck (Jan 16, 2008)

Stevie

I can't comment on the Sigma personally but I did own the 10-20 lens when I had my Canon 500D and wasn't impressed with it so ended up swapping it for a Canon 10-22.

Back on topic, I do own the Canon 70-200 _f_4 L IS version and can confirm it is a cracking lens. It is a real step up from the 'budget' 75-300 and would serve you well.

For me, I prefer to stick with Canon as I think the marriage of the body and lens is better but that's just my take.

As mentioned before, don't be swung by the _f_2.8 unless you are wanting it for its depth of field characteristics. You can easily up the ISO a notch or two (I was shooting at 6400 last week to get some non-flash interior shots in a church and they are very good quality wise (albeit on a 5D MkII) and the 60D should comfortably shoot at ISO1600 without any IQ problems.


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## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

Thanks Buck, appreciate you feedback. I'm thinking along the same lines of keeping everything Canon but that probably not the way to look at it. I was taking motorbike racing photography at the weekend and the guys beside me both were using Canon, one a 450D with a 70-200 f/4 and the other a 5F MkIII and the 70-200 f/2.8 and none were stabilised. Both reckoned they could live without it since they were using it for sport and panning a lot. Got using both and thought they were a big step from the 75-300 I had even though I was happy with my results. The 5D - awesome camera!

Stevie

Should have added that I could get the Sigma and try it and have the option of returning it within a few days if I wasn't happy.


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## bretti_kivi (Apr 22, 2008)

if you do go with the Siggy, make 100% sure that the focus sits perfectly at all zoom lengths.

Having said that, the HSM is really quiet and fast, so... I don't think you'll see much difference.

- Bret


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## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

I've decided to give the Sigma a try - will know tomorrow what my initial thoughts are update this thread. 

Stevie


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## Buck (Jan 16, 2008)

RP Stevie said:


> I've decided to give the Sigma a try - will know tomorrow what my initial thoughts are update this thread.
> 
> Stevie


Look forward to the update - hope its a good example :thumb:


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## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

Lens arrived this morning. Man it's heavy! Unbelievable sharp compared to the 75-300, will post a few pictures later but I was able to take picture in the bedroom that had blinds closed off a picture that our son drew and it was brighter than our eyes could see it at f2.8. The DOF is brilliant as well at all the apertures and distances.

So far - brilliant and the difference in f2.8 and f4 in a dark room is a lot more than I expected. Think I'll be keeping it but I'll know better tonight when I go flying.

Thanks

Stevie


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## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

Was taking these out the window of the house.

Hand held
1/1600 Sec
f/2.8
ISO 100
Focal Length: 200mm










This is the cropped version. Like the spiders web:










Again:
1/1600
f/2.8
ISO 100
Focal Length: 178

Was trying here to get the van as it drove past on the road. The speed limit for the road is 40mph but as it comes off the main road he could have been going faster.










Obviously at that shutter speed I was freezing everything but it was really to test how fast it would focus.

This was inside with me lying on the bed. The blinds were still closed so the room was fairly dark.

1/500
f/2.8
ISO 200
Focal Length: 97










Comments or suggestions always welcome.

Stevie


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## EddieB (May 13, 2006)

So what is the AF system like then?

This is my "next" lens after I get my 7d - unless i decide to go for the Canon option which is almost twice as much!


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## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

AF is extremely fast and very sharp. Unfortunately I'd didn't get any pictures of the planes flying because it was almost dark before we got started and I was flying myself so by the time I'd landed there was nothing left. Only three of us there which is unusual but I'll get a better chance over the next few days.

These are straight from the camera with no editing/resizing/nothing:

My plane when I was lying in the boot waiting on someone else to arrive. The canopy isn't sitting the way it's supposed to as the power switch is in the fuselage and it was switched off as I waited.

f/2.8
1/1000
ISO 100
86mm










This is a church which is somewhere in the region of a mile away. I was a few hundred yards of the end of the runway (just less than a mile) and it is up a hill on the other side. Hand held as well. Need to buy a tripod!

f/2.8
1/1000
ISO 160
200mm










Stevie


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## Buck (Jan 16, 2008)

Looks good Stevie. Youre all set to go now :thumb:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

RP Stevie said:


> I've decided to give the Sigma a try - will know tomorrow what my initial thoughts are update this thread.
> 
> Stevie


Stevie what one did you go for and what sort of price point looks great lens, thanks Derek


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

EddieB said:


> So what is the AF system like then?
> 
> This is my "next" lens after I get my 7d - unless i decide to go for the Canon option which is almost twice as much!


Eddie been looking at EOS 7D my self but looking at deals tempted with grey import but not 100% on it, just seems alot for me and worried a new 7d will appear son as just updated filmware so could be trying to sell them out could be wrong


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## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

Derekh929 said:


> Stevie what one did you go for and what sort of price point looks great lens, thanks Derek


I went for the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 EX DG HSM II. I bought from MPB Photographic and they were excellent. It cost me £429 which was not what I intended to do when I bought the camera and the original telephoto 3 weeks ago but I'm addicted now! Would love a super wide angle now but I better pause for breathe before the missus goes mad! Really need a tripod so looking at a Giottos on Amazon and get a wireless remote for the shutter.

Thanks

Stevie


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

RP Stevie said:


> I went for the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 EX DG HSM II. I bought from MPB Photographic and they were excellent. It cost me £429 which was not what I intended to do when I bought the camera and the original telephoto 3 weeks ago but I'm addicted now! Would love a super wide angle now but I better pause for breathe before the missus goes mad! Really need a tripod so looking at a Giottos on Amazon and get a wireless remote for the shutter.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Stevie


Hi Steve thanks for the info sounds great yes when your married have to tread fine line enjoy


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## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

Another picture that I took a few minutes ago with the Sigma and the Speedlite.

f/2.8
1/80
ISO 800
70mm
Speedlite EX270 bounced off the ceiling.

My son, Ethan:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

RP Stevie said:


> Another picture that I took a few minutes ago with the Sigma and the Speedlite.
> 
> f/2.8
> 1/80
> ...


Very good Stevie natural shot you lad enjoying getting his pic, get plenty know as when tanagers you become an Alien


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## RP Stevie (Jan 24, 2007)

Thanks Derek, he'd already prefer to be behind the camera and is loving the fast burst rate off the 60D!

Stevie


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