# Revo Remaps?



## A3 Sport (Oct 23, 2010)

Does anyone have any information about Revo Remaps? Are they any good? Anyone had any problems?

My main concern is if its traceable. I am 100% going to tell the insurance company, but if the car needs warranty work, I dont want the manufacturer to be able to tell. 

What are peoples experiences?

Thanks :thumb:


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

The manufacturer _can_ tell but often they don't bother checking, there are checksum values on the ECU that can be different but you won't tell from a simple plug and scan, likewise to be sure you'd need to log fueling, boost and MAF readings.
Your car is a 2009 from your description which is going to be basically outside of the Audi factory warranty, and if it was bought used, you could claim, if they found out, that you hadn't done it so must have been done before your purchase - I wouldn't worry.

Revo maps are, despite what anyone tells you, flash maps. They are basically tuning boxes but rather than plugging a box in, it's flashed directly onto your ECU - They are not custom which is my point there.

You haven't said what engine you have which does not help at all... but for most things R-tech are the place to go - Nick there is a top lad and knows more than most people when it comes to VAG tuning, he will also do full logging before tuning to make sure the car is in a fit and healthy state.. unlike some tuners......

R-tech often has long waiting times which just about says it all really!!!


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## Dift (May 22, 2011)

As mentioned its not a 'custom code', but I have always used Revo for my VAG cars. Probably totalled >250k in Revo remapped cars and never had an issue.


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## A3 Sport (Oct 23, 2010)

Hi guys, 

Thanks for the replies. Sorry, I've changed the car, its now a '12 Audi TT S Line 1.8TFSI. 160 bhp 184ft/lbs. 

I was told a while ago (by a Revo dealer though to be honest) that the maps aren't traceable.


:thumb:


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## Dift (May 22, 2011)

As mentioned, they are not really traceable... However it's not hard to look at fueling, boost etc to see the figures are higher than standard.

It they wanted to be super anal (ie for a disputed engine failure), they could easily send the ecu away for testing.


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## BoostJunky86 (Oct 25, 2012)

A lot of the Mk2 Focus RS's use/are remapped using Revo software. Not heard any issues with those, but no they aren't a custom remap, but its a remap none the less I guess. If your not starting to upgrade parts etc I'd be happy to do it to my car.


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## heavyd (Jun 11, 2006)

xJay1337 said:


> Revo maps are, despite what anyone tells you, flash maps. They are basically tuning boxes but rather than plugging a box in, it's flashed directly onto your ECU - They are not custom which is my point there.


not quite!
So basically when the revo dealer sets the car up, he adjusts the boost timing and fuelling to get the best for your car? all of these will be datalogged, and the optimum values for your car will be set. you can even change these values via the sps device. - i.e nothing like a tuning box.

Out of the 5 companies remaps that I've had on my car, revo was the best, also used Revo on my cars in the past..

As far as it being traceable, all the dealer has to do is drive it down the road and log the boost values. If you return it to stock engine mode via the sps device, the values still differ slightly from OEM stock values, but not by much.
Also the engine flash counter will have changed.

Other option is the likes of bluefin, where you load your OEM remap back onto the car. This still alters the flash counter on the ecu, but the engine will have the full stock engine map on the ecu. Dowside to the bluefin is the remap feels nowhere near as good as the Revo one.


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## allan1888 (Aug 29, 2009)

All remaps are traceable and apparently the new Vag dealer diagnostic computer automatically checks the ecu Against what it should be from factory for changes like remaps and logs them against the vin no. I personally won't be going for revo I would rather go to shark performance or APR


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Many manufacturers force the dealer to check these days. They have to plug the car into the computer and there isn't a way to hide it. 

We all know some dealers are willing to turn a blind for work, but the manufacturers are taking that out of their hands. 

Remaps are very easy to detect in modern cars.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I'm not a revo fan either, however I don't think dealers can see the remap unless they really go looking. Vauxhall send the ecu's off to thorney Motorsport irc and I thought bluefin resets the checksum value.


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## heavyd (Jun 11, 2006)

Bluefin does change the flash count.


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## Monkeyboy (Nov 19, 2006)

Anyone else used emaps services and recommend them ??


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

heavyd said:


> not quite!
> So basically when the revo dealer sets the car up, he adjusts the boost timing and fuelling to get the best for your car? all of these will be datalogged, and the optimum values for your car will be set. you can even change these values via the sps device. - i.e nothing like a tuning box.


And you think that can be done in an hour? Revo maps are developed on one car, say a guy called Derek took his Mk5 GTI in and Revo spent 6-7 hours on that car.
From that car they create a map.
From that map they flash it onto every car that goes there. I'm on the "scene", without being big headed I do know, to see for yourself, all you need to do is go to any VW show with a drag strip (eg Inters, springfest etc) and Revo will be there mapping cars on the day. Without a dyno!!! Just with a laptop...



> Out of the 5 companies remaps that I've had on my car, revo was the best, also used Revo on my cars in the past..


And I take it you've used Rtech then? Loads of people who have a Revo map have been to Rtech and gotten a) better power and b) better DRIVEABILITY without the big lurch when you let off the throttle. Revo is alright but there are better out there.


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## heavyd (Jun 11, 2006)

I didnt say rtech was bad, they are one of the best. but I wouldnt use a tuner that is a 7hr round trip, as if anything goes wrong, its a long journey. learnt that lesson myself having to make two 6 hour round trips to a tuner, that was after 12 different remaps were emailed to me, and was still no good in the end, and have to have the engine rebuilt after it all. 
Best advice is to find a good company that is local.

Heres a reply on another forum a tuner I know well posted.

This is a basic information post and not directed at any paticular company, wether mentioned in this post or not.

This is one of my favourite subjects, having been in the engine management industry for 10+ years 90% of the stuff on the internet about ECU mapping makes me chuckle.

The biggest issue at the moment is people buying tools on ebay for a few hundred quid, making a website and claiming to be an 'ecu mapper' when all they are doing is copying and pasting cheaply bought software into peoples ECU's with no development, testing or real idea of what they are doing. Just take a look at these links, you can buy files for most cars for a few euros:

http://ucables.com/ref/ECU-MAPS
http://www.chiptuning-files.net/Chiptuning/chiptuning.html

Are these files any good? chances are, the people buying files wont know how to look at the file to see if it is infact even a map file, and if they are paying a few Euros for it then thers no chance it has had any development work, or testing. But they will gladly buy this file, write it into your ECU (usually parked outside your house armed with nothing more than a laptop) and dissapear with your hard earned cash.

Then theres the whole issue about 'custom maps'. The fact is that theres very few people in the industry that can actually make a custom map correctly. Anyone that offers a custom map should have their own dyno testing facility, and the car should constantly be tuned and tested, then retuned, then tested etc.... so that you can follow the rule of getting a base level of the parameter that you are tuning, changing this parameter and then re-testing to see the effect of the change. I had a customer wanting a dyno test last week that had a 'custom remap' done outside his house for £150, the customer seemed delighted that the guy had completed this 'custom' map in just 25 mins and that the car felt loads better to drive. The dyno showed the map to be exactly what I had imagined, they had literally changed just 1 map (fuel pressure) and although the car had gained power from standard it was extremely 'peaky' and extremely smokey (it was a diesel).

After looking at the map for the customer we realised that the harware and software number of the file used wasnt even a match for the ECU fitted to the car! So all that had been done was the good old 'copy and paste' method. After checking these ECU identifications, as I expected the 'tuned' file was actually from a completely different car. Was there anything 'custom' about this remap? well, yes. they had customised his ECU with another cars file, so in a way it was custom to his car, but is that what people expect with a custom remap? I think not and most would agree with me but by putting the word custom infront of the word 'remap' the general public will think that its somehow better.

will continue in another post....

Heres the best advice I can give when looking for a remap and what to ask:

1. Do they write their own software? if the answer is no, we email it to someone else to modify etc.... walk away.
2. If they do write their own software they WILL have dyno facilities so ask to see some power graphs of identical cars.
3. What testing will be done before and after the remap?
4. If it is generic i.e Revo, will the car be datalogged and checked, and retuned? it should be, no 2 cars are identical.
5. Is the company VAT registered with insurance and a registered business premises with a landline phone number?

Follow these basic steps and you wont go far wrong.

Good debate this one, and a question I am asked daily is 'can you do custom maps and how is it better than a generic map?'

The explanation could go into 3+ pages but a general rule is that a generic map is a 1 size fits all product, suitable for a wide range of applications and is not and can not be adjusted by the end user. i.e bluefin or 'flash remaps'. Flash remaps are a simple procedure where you take the car to a 'tuner' ( I use the term tuner very loosely for this type of remap option) and they get an ID of your ECU type and software version and email it to a 3rd party that will copy and paste the changed settings that were made for a similar ECU and car into a file and send it back, this file is then flashed over your current software, you get the keys back and the 'tuner' hopes it doesnt have any problems. The worst type of flash tuning is usually carried out from a back of a van.

A custom map will be very different, the tuner will likely be making the software themselfes rather than sending it away to a 3rd party and the use of a dyno is essential for back to back testing and measuring, however the use of a dyno does not define a custom map, its just a very very handy tool to have to determine wether ther changes you have made are making any real difference to power, emmissions, torque and various other parameters. A dyno allows you to back to back test the effect of the customising of the map in a controlled and safe environment. I.e if you add ignition advance is it making extra power? Is that extra bit of fuel you have added at 3000 rpm at 80% throttle lowered the exhaust gas temps to a safer levels, or has it effected the power output in any way? You get the idea, its time consuming and costly but you get the best end product available, not essesntial for the average stage 1 car but for motorsport or highly modded stuff its a must.

Then you get the middle ground such as REVO, which offers the best of both worlds. A simple sliding scale to adjust the boost, timing and fueling properties within the map and can be accurately adjusted with on-road datalogging to get a good end product. Yes it is custom to a certain extent but lacks the resolution of a genuine custom map as you can only adjust 3 parameters on a 2D sliding scale, no single adjustments for fuel vs throttle position for example, but for a quick easy product they are the market leaders for a very good reason.

As a guide, anyone that offers a 'full custom map' without the use of a dyno is cutting corners a little. Anyone that offers a custom map without any datalogging is either missinformed or pulling the wool over your eyes. We had a customer in yesterday that had a 'proper custom remap' (his words) that cost just £200 and was finished in just 10 mins, he was enquiring about rolling road testing as he couldnt tell the difference after it was done apart from it was jerky at low throttle, the 'tuner' said it will get better when the weather isnt so cold


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## Monkeyboy (Nov 19, 2006)

Great explanation !!


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## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

Monkeyboy said:


> Anyone else used emaps services and recommend them ??


Simon really knows his stuff, I'd recommend him :thumb:


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## yin (Dec 29, 2005)

xJay1337 said:


> And you think that can be done in an hour?


Using Vag com and an Revo sps yes you can set up to your mods in under an hour

Had revo on my last 3 cars had Ptorque:thumb:.then Apr and now Revo on my current car 2.0tfsi

if i was changing now it would Revo or Rtech


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

When I went to R-tech ages ago, they took an hour just to do basic logging and testing to make sure the car was healthy. I was sat there when Nick did 8 different full power runs after making tweaks, was there for a good 3 hours in total. 
Prior to my car being mapped, they turned away a guy because his VNT mech in his turbo was sticky, I don't think a Revo mapper would have done that!!! Just mapped it and left the customer on their own when their turbo ****es itself.

RE tuners and distance, I disagree. If you are serious about having your car tuned then you need to be prepared to travel.

R-tech is 100 miles from me but I went there nevertheless.

If you break down then well, you have break down cover, what's the problem?

When I wanted more than what the stock hardware in my car could offer, I went to Darkside Developments as they are pretty much the only serious diesel tuning company for VAGs in the UK. As I had fitted larger injectors BEFORE going up there, I was incredibly smokey so had the map tweaked by a "local" tuner and while it wasn't quite so smokey, it wasn't a particularly good map at all.

Darkside are a 3 hour drive away, plus they needed my car for 2 days - so I got a hotel. I also drove there and back with no break down cover at all.. why live your life based on "what-ifs". If I had of broken down or there would have been a problem, a) I'm fairly confident that Darkside would have picked me up if I was within say 50 miles having just spent £2500 with them, plus Ryan/Scott are nice lads, and b) if I was further away than that, I have friends, and tow rope.

No two engines are exactly the same which is why I'd always get a custom remap irrespective of what tuning level you have.
Most places charge £250-300 (in the VAG world - the CR diesels are a little more pricey but hey) for a fully custom map with full logging by people who _know_ what they are doing.

The fact is Revo is not worth the money when compared to other tuners out there - And as I said, they often map without even doing dyno runs, sat in a car park at a car show. Seems legit.

As I said, loads of people who have revo complain of harsh throttles especially in Cupras and other Mk4 gen 1.8T stuff.. 
But hey, takes your own choices, spend your own monies.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I think tuners should be local, when things need tweaking or you add other mods you can always pop down and get things tweaked, they are also on hand for advice. Interesting to see your not a fan of shark, they have a certain following on some forums. Me, I like jabbasport, our tt is mapped by them and is much nicer than the superchips map on my cupra. Whether they are the best I don't know but I like them and that's all that counts.


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