# Want my metallic back!



## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

I have a montego blue metallic BMW.

A couple of months ago I went all out for a super shiny wet look. Going off a couple of tips I'd been given I settled on Poorboy's Black Hole and CG Pete's 53 Black Pearl, and for a while I certainly did achieve a wet look, but two months on my once blue metallic looks pretty flat and a considerably darker shade of blue. I'm at the stage now where I want to strip it all back and start all over again.

Is there any wax or product in particular that is best to make those metal flakes pop again along with a nice gloss finish? Please bear in mind that I don't have any machinery so usability by hand is also a factor.


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

Two months is not a bad lifespan for a show wax so the problem is not that you need to strip it back, more likely there is nothing left to strip back. The Black Hole offers no protection at all, so once the covering of wax has worn off it’s not going to be around for long, so there goes your flake pop. If you liked the initial results then all you need to do is reapply it, but expect to top it up every month to six weeks.

I used Poorboys White Diamond covered with two coats of Collinite 845 on a silver car and with regular maintenance that lasted about six months. Even when it was dirty you could still see the gloss.


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## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

Thanks for your advice, I understand there is a lifespan to all of these products. One thing of note is just how much darker the blue appears, and I wonder if this relates to the fact that CG have two options - Black Pearl for darker cars and White Diamond for lighter cars. Is that where I went wrong? Because I noticed this effect immediately upon using these products.

Separating dark from light when it comes to a mid tone blue is a little confusing and I wonder if choosing one over the other could actually have a negative effect? I have to confess I have no idea how either of these products work in relation to either option so it's likely that I'm talking a load of rubbish, but the next time I do a bit of detailing I would prefer to focus more on getting a good sparkle and bringing the best out of that paintwork rather than drown it in deeper tones.

Apologies if these are daft questions but it's not long since I bought into this world of detailing and my knowledge and understanding isn't so good.


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

The Black Hole is a glaze, basically what it does is fill in tiny imperfections in the surface to make it make it flatter or more even and therefore more reflective, more reflection equals more shine. The light/dark tint is to match the particles more closely to the base of the car without showing up, even the smallest specks of white would show up on a black car and vice versa, but white is unlikely to be visible on say, a silver car or black on a dark blue car. It works like the old colour magic stuff, only is much finer and on a much smaller scale. 

I would say that unless you need maximum gloss for a show car or have particularly bad paint, there are better ways of getting a good result. There really is no substitute for a proper machine polish but not everyone has the time or resources for that. Make sure the car is completely clean and ideally clayed, if it is swirled (always looks worse on a dark car) and polishing is not an option then use a filler polish like Autoglym Super Resin Polish to mask it, then put your Petes 53 over the top. That should give you a decent result with minimal stress and I doubt you’ll miss the glaze.


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## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

Thanks that's great, I feel like I'm learning something!

I have plenty of products that I've bought on a whim purely through word of mouth and probably more than enough to give it a good prep. Korrosol, Cleanser-fluid, Bilt Hamber clay bar, BH Autowash... Basically I raided Bilt Hamber's online store!

The last polish I used was Menzerna Heavy Cut 400 which ran out a while ago and could do with another, so Autoglym Super Resin can be added to my list.

Wax-wise I have Pete's 53 and a couple of Meguires options who's name escapes me right now.

Then I have the unnecessary such as Black Hole and Zaino Grand Finale.

I guess theres plenty there to detract from any more spending. My biggest problem is that I'm always looking for better and after the next big thing.


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## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

Well I was wanting to try out Poorboys Black hole on wife’s and father in laws car, but not sure now...might see if I can pick up a sample bottle to try out. 

What’s Pete’s 53 wax like ?


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## OvEr_KiLL (Mar 2, 2015)

to get flake pop its all about the prep work, clay-decontaminate glaze then a nice wax which doesnt mute the flake.
i havnt used black hole so i dont know if it will enhance the flake but ive used prima amigo which leaves a deeper finish and enhances it, then as for wax, do you want durability or a show type of wax? for example, bmd morpheus leaves a nice deep finish with great flake and 6 months odk sterling will give around 3 months with great flake but its not as deep as morpheus or even the blackfire range which is stunning on my black metallic and makes it very deep with excellent flake, gloss enhancing polish followed by all finish paint protection then black ice (or midnight sun)

have a read of this http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/choosing-paint-protection.html


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Every time I see that link I want to buy a pot of Black Ice! And then I remind myself of the price.... :doublesho

OP, worth noting that Polished Bliss' recommendation for dark metallic colours is BH Cleanser Polish with several coats of BH Double Speed-Wax on top, a combination which I can personally vouch for as looking ace (including really nice flake pop) and lasting for ages with great beading as well. Plus less than £40 for both products :thumb:


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## MSwiss (Sep 25, 2017)

Andyblue said:


> Well I was wanting to try out Poorboys Black hole on wife's and father in laws car, but not sure now...might see if I can pick up a sample bottle to try out.
> 
> What's Pete's 53 wax like ?


I am very new to this but after much research I decided on petes 53 for my obsidian black car. It seems to get a lot of love on the various forums for black cars, although I used it on my wife's white Audi with very pleasing results. The ease of application and finish are excellent but I can't comment on the longevity.

HTH


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## OvEr_KiLL (Mar 2, 2015)

steelghost said:


> Every time I see that link I want to buy a pot of Black Ice! And then I remind myself of the price.... :doublesho


buy the smaller pot elsewhere its about £50 thats what i did


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## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

OvEr_KiLL said:


> to get flake pop its all about the prep work, clay-decontaminate glaze then a nice wax which doesnt mute the flake.
> i havnt used black hole so i dont know if it will enhance the flake but ive used prima amigo which leaves a deeper finish and enhances it, then as for wax, do you want durability or a show type of wax? for example, bmd morpheus leaves a nice deep finish with great flake and 6 months odk sterling will give around 3 months with great flake but its not as deep as morpheus or even the blackfire range which is stunning on my black metallic and makes it very deep with excellent flake, gloss enhancing polish followed by all finish paint protection then black ice (or midnight sun)
> 
> have a read of this http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/choosing-paint-protection.html


Personally it's appearance over durability as I'm happy to top up when needed and I have the free time to do it. The car is my passion and rarely a day goes by that I don't think up a job to do on it for that day.

Thanks for the link!



Steelghost said:


> Every time I see that link I want to buy a pot of Black Ice! And then I remind myself of the price....
> 
> OP, worth noting that Polished Bliss' recommendation for dark metallic colours is BH Cleanser Polish with several coats of BH Double Speed-Wax on top, a combination which I can personally vouch for as looking ace (including really nice flake pop) and lasting for ages with great beading as well. Plus less than £40 for both products


That sounds like a good combination, I'm already a fan of the Bilt Hamber products. The two you mention are two of the very few I haven't yet tried. I think I'm a sucker for fancy exotic labels and when I see those names like Alien / Blackfire / Morpheus etc etc etc I'm like a Golem blind to the world and hypnotised, reaching out for that precious shiny label. When I think of BH, for whatever reason I think 'hmmm... it's not as exotic as a 'Morpheus' and that label's boring'. Yet I know from experience that pretty much EVERY BH product is excellent and they sure as hell know what they're doing.

The power of marketing ey. I think I'll try out cleanser polish and speedwax. I assume cleanser polish is a hybrid of the cleanser fluid I have, which I use for all sorts of difficult cleaning jobs.


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## OvEr_KiLL (Mar 2, 2015)

you could go for stevives new flake pop wax, cosmos 
http://www.bmdluxurycarwax.co.uk/wax-samples/BMD - Cosmos - sample


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Thanatu55 said:


> That sounds like a good combination, I'm already a fan of the Bilt Hamber products. The two you mention are two of the very few I haven't yet tried. I think I'm a sucker for fancy exotic labels and when I see those names like Alien / Blackfire / Morpheus etc etc etc I'm like a Golem blind to the world and hypnotised, reaching out for that precious shiny label. When I think of BH, for whatever reason I think 'hmmm... it's not as exotic as a 'Morpheus' and that label's boring'. Yet I know from experience that pretty much EVERY BH product is excellent and they sure as hell know what they're doing.
> 
> The power of marketing ey. I think I'll try out cleanser polish and speedwax. I assume cleanser polish is a hybrid of the cleanser fluid I have, which I use for all sorts of difficult cleaning jobs.


So Cleanser Fluid and Cleanser Polish are very different products - CF is essentially a panel wipe, used correctly it will leave nothing behind on the paint and as you've observed, it's excellent for many cleaning tasks not just on car paint.

CP is quite a different beast - it's an example of an "All-in-One" product ie does multiple jobs at the same time. I'll quote the "We Say" section from Polished Bliss' product page for CP:


Polished Bliss said:


> Simply outstanding. That's what we think of Bilt Hamber cleanser-polish. For a long time now, users of synthetic paint sealants have faced a dilemma when working on paint finishes in less than perfect condition. Do I spend a short amount of time simply cleaning the surface and then sealing it, leaving the defects visible, or do I spend a far longer amount of time correcting the defects fully first?
> 
> This dilemma arises because synthetic sealants only adhere properly to squeaky-clean oil-free paint. Unlike natural waxes, which readily adhere to oil-rich surfaces, synthetic sealants fail to latch on and bond properly if oils and other surface enhancers (such as kaolin-clay fillers) are present. Therefore, using a glaze beneath a synthetic sealant for a quick visual fix remains a problematic issue.
> 
> Bilt Hamber have solved this problem by formulating an oil-free all in one polish and protectant that incorporates cutting abrasives (to remove minor defects), fillers (to hide deeper defects) and acrylic polymers (to lay down protection). The result is a product that fixes and hides a multitude of defects while simultaneously laying down a basecoat of resin-based protection that can be topped with any sealant (or wax) you like. It's also incredibly easy to use. Like we said, simply outstanding!


I think of it as a glaze on steroids ie it will "prettify" the paint, both by filling defects and a small degree of mechanical cut, and by cleaning muck out of the pores - try it by DA on a light coloured polishing pad and you'll be astonished and horrified at the amount of muck that is pulled out of what you previously thought was "clean"! It does leave a little protection of its own so you don't have to apply a "proper" LSP straightaway, but you can just wax or seal over it straightaway, so that's what I do. Even if you don't go for DSW, CP is a great base for applying any LSP onto. If you want really mega flake pop you could even go for a pure acrylic sealant like Carlack Long Life which you can layer up as much as you like (hence always giving you something to put on the car!)


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## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

Ok so I'm sold on CP. And Carlack Long Life sounds like exactly what I'm looking for, but would this be used on top of DSW or in place of it? From the description I'm of the impression that you Carlack would go straight on top of CP instead of DSW.


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## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

Thanatu55 said:


> Ok so I'm sold on CP. And Carlack Long Life sounds like exactly what I'm looking for, but would this be used on top of DSW or in place of it?


I think in place of the wax, but def would have thought before you wax...not something I've used, but on my radar to try out


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## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

I think I'll give it a whirl :devil:


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## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

The main thing I remember from reading up about it, is to apply it thin, otherwise it can be a bit difficult to remove, although a spritz mist of water can assist with removal if struggling...


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## dchapman88 (Mar 17, 2016)

Tbh Glare Pro+ polish has got to be one of the best finishes I've ever seen for my metallic flake pop 
And for waxes BMD Taurus gives stunning flake pop, durability ain't great but is a stunner of a product


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## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

dchapman88 said:


> Tbh Glare Pro+ polish has got to be one of the best finishes I've ever seen for my metallic flake pop
> And for waxes BMD Taurus gives stunning flake pop, durability ain't great but is a stunner of a product


Can't get Glare anymore though, can you ?


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## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

This detailing lark hurts my tiny mind. One minute my mind is set, next in comes a curve ball and I'm second guessing myself. For somebody new to the game there are so many options and opinions, but of course that is the whole point of having forums such as this.

I have a bit of time to research the options anyway as I need to repaint a rear panel which I plan to do this week, but it will need a while before I can touch it with polish and wax... hopefully I'll have found the holy grail of each by then!!


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

Thanatu55 said:


> This detailing lark hurts my tiny mind. One minute my mind is set, next in comes a curve ball and I'm second guessing myself. For somebody new to the game there are so many options and opinions, but of course that is the whole point of having forums such as this.
> 
> I have a bit of time to research the options anyway as I need to repaint a rear panel which I plan to do this week, but it will need a while before I can touch it with polish and wax... hopefully I'll have found the holy grail of each by then!!


What and nobody's mentioned Carpro Essence yet:doublesho


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## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

chongo said:


> What and nobody's mentioned Carpro Essence yet:doublesho




Now you're just being cruel :lol::lol::lol:


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## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

Hmmm... **types Carpro Essence into google**...

Edit: Ha I'm spraying one panel, not the whole shebang! I think one extra super glossy panel might look out of place 

Edit Edit: I think I got my wires crossed there.


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Andyblue said:


> Can't get Glare anymore though, can you ?


https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/182878842843

You can for now...


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## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

Ok I came in search of a wax, I now have an ebay page open at a four part Glare detailing set and a DA...

Back to basics the glare set looks more suited to machine polishing, so me and my little polishing sponge might be a little out of our depth. The Carlack states specifically hand use only so probably more suited to my limitations.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

Andyblue said:


> Now you're just being cruel :lol::lol::lol:


What me only giving him options 

Anyway Essence by hand is as good as any finishing polish going:thumb:


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Thanatu55 said:


> Ok I came in search of a wax, I now have an ebay page open at a four part Glare detailing set and a DA...
> 
> Back to basics the glare set looks more suited to machine polishing, so me and my little polishing sponge might be a little out of our depth. The Carlack states specifically hand use only so probably more suited to my limitations.


You can use the all of the Glare polishes by hand...ok maybe not Knockout, but all the others.

To answer your earlier question, you would use the Carlack Long Life on top of the Cleanser Polish, as many layers as you feel like.

Decisions, decisions!


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## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

This was only ever going to end in more questions than answers wasn't it lol 

I've just finished reading a CarPro Essence write up and it sounds like some kind of miracle worker. I've also come to a realisation... There is no 'best' is there. It's a combination of preference, taste, experience, opinion and any number of ingredients that determine the right potion for one individual.

A caveat of that realisation, while there may not be a ********** 'best', there are 'better' and 'worse', and so it's about listening to the recommendations of the 'better' products and ultimately taking the plunge on one (or two, maybe).

Once I got to that last part my mind went blank and once again I lost the power to think for myself.

Decisions indeed!


Edit: What a strange word to blank out (??)


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Thanatu55 said:


> There is no 'best' is there. It's a combination of preference, taste, experience, opinion and any number of ingredients that determine the right potion for one individual.
> 
> A caveat of that realisation, while there may not be a ********** 'best', there are 'better' and 'worse', and so it's about listening to the recommendations of the 'better' products and ultimately taking the plunge on one (or two, maybe).
> 
> Edit: What a strange word to blank out (??)


You catch on quick!  Once you realise that so much in detailing is about personal preferences, it makes the whole thing less stressful somehow.

The word is a brand of detailing products, for reasons I know not why the forum is setup to replace that word with stars.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

The fun (read "expense") is trying different products to determine where your preference lies. We all buy into hype to a certain degree, and once it dissipates, I for one usually revert to my usual products. 

If I could only convince myself that I really don't need to buy more stuff to try......

Lol. 

Cooks.


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## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

Ah ok fair enough, it wasn't meant to represent a brand but I know algorithms (or some other smart term) can't detect that.

So I sensed the fringes of an in joke that I'm not yet accustomed to when CarPro Essentials was mentioned and despite the unparalleled air of the review I just read I'm hesitant to become a part of that in joke.

Bilt Hamber I like, I've used their products, they're usually pretty simple to use and it gained more than the one recommendation so I think Cleanser Polish is a banker.

Of what I have read since, Carlack Long Life just pipped DSW for the flake 'pop' I'm looking for. And before Glare was thrown into the mix I was fully committed to click that 'Add to Cart' button, so on that basis it sounds like CLL is a good place to start.

Glare, as above, plus I get the impression that there is a little more involved than the CP and CLL combo. And whilst I have dipped my toe in the detailing water, I'm practically a novice.

So by the powers of deduction CP and CLL appear to be the safe but promising way to go.

One more thing, I don't know what kind of reputation it has but I'm using ProXL Ultraclear to lacquer my panel and it states that it's safe to polish after 24 hours. That sounds a little ambitious to me but I could be wrong. Any thoughts on this?


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## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

Cookies said:


> The fun (read "expense") is trying different products to determine where your preference lies. We all buy into hype to a certain degree, and once it dissipates, I for one usually revert to my usual products.
> 
> If I could only convince myself that I really don't need to buy more stuff to try......
> 
> ...


I'm fully on board with you there! I'm already a spend and experiment zombie over on the Z4 forum, it seems I'm now falling into the same trap in the detailing world too! lol


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## Stu Mac (Aug 18, 2014)

I can certainly recommend carlack complete followed by long life, great combination and produces amazing flake pop. Both easy to apply and just add layers of long life to enhance.


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## dchapman88 (Mar 17, 2016)

Andyblue said:


> Can't get Glare anymore though, can you ?


Pretty sure Philip has some stuff left, not much but even 2 bottles of pro+ polish would be enough for every car you ever own.
It goes such a damn long way and you can work it for ages!


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Stu Mac said:


> I can certainly recommend carlack complete followed by long life, great combination and produces amazing flake pop. Both easy to apply and just add layers of long life to enhance.


This is the standard combo (ie the two products from Carlack that are designed to work together). However there is a post on here somewhere from Polished Bliss saying that you can happily substitute Cleanser Polish for Carlack Complete.


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## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

Ok I've been doing some reading on everything mentioned up to now. The Carlack and CP sounds like a strong combination, but...

This CarPro Essence business, all of the reviews I've read verge upon worshipping this stuff. How does it stand up against the above combination and what is it's effect on metallics? Being a form of filler, does this not diminish flake pop? And is it a one part treatment or could you apply something like Carlack again over the top of it?

Apologies, my inquisitive mind is running away with itself.

I was going to talk about Black Fire, but it seems this stuff has replaced it in some peoples collection.


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

"Flake pop" depends on getting the most light into and out of the paint. Some products hinder light transmission (and in doing so can increase apparent colour intensity and "deepen" reflections) - others allow it to a much higher level. The more light you have reflecting off the flake in the paint, the more "flake pop" will be apparent.

As a (very!) general rule, sealants tend to be better at allowing flake pop than "normal" (ie, carnauba + oils but not much else) waxes. Some waxes, by accident or by design, do allow better light transmission and hence better flake pop.

Essence, being a sealant of sorts I would expect to fall into the "better flake pop" category but I haven't used it myself to confirm. The fact it has a filling action doesn't really have a bearing on whether it's good or bad at transmitting light.

My guess is that you could put layers of Long Life over Essence, but I'll let other members with experience of the product comment on that.

It's worth mentioning that these sorts of acrylic sealants give a very smooth, reflective and "glassy" finish, but they are not very "deep". You'll get excellent flake pop but if you're looking for similar depth and "wetness" to what you're getting at the moment, you may be a little disappointed.

Edit: This is well worth a read on this topic.


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## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

Interesting, thanks for the link. So according to Polished Bliss they've used the Blackfire Wet Diamond kit on my colour, or close to my colour, although we were in the right ballpark with Carlack Acrylic too.

So I can go with that, or I can follow those who have converted from Blackfire to Carpro. Ha, still the questions go on.

Thanks for that though, it explains a lot and helps me to understand what I'm looking for better.


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## OvEr_KiLL (Mar 2, 2015)

id go for blackfire mate and follow polishedbliss instructions  , i have the same stuff on my car except the midnight sun im using black ice and topped up with midnight sun qd after every wash as a drying aid


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## Ads_ClioV6 (Apr 27, 2014)

Thanatu55 said:


> Interesting, thanks for the link. So according to Polished Bliss they've used the Blackfire Wet Diamond kit on my colour, or close to my colour, although we were in the right ballpark with Carlack Acrylic too.
> 
> So I can go with that, or I can follow those who have converted from Blackfire to Carpro. Ha, still the questions go on.
> 
> Thanks for that though, it explains a lot and helps me to understand what I'm looking for better.


blackfire is my go too products but expensive.You can pick the ms wax.app and a ms qd cheaper on eBay atm.Do it go black fire. TIP You have imo.The best gloss enhancing product zaino z8.That works well with blackfire.


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## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

Blackfire it is then!

Topped with Zaino Z8


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## Ads_ClioV6 (Apr 27, 2014)

Thanatu55 said:


> Blackfire it is then!
> 
> Topped with Zaino Z8


 Yep then cone do mine with the stuff honestly all you need
Midnigas sun wax eBay 25.95
Blackmore gloss polish 
Apple sealant 
YOU have z8 and it goes perfect with the stuff.I would get the gep and afpp from polish bliss..The best eBay for the ms wax at under26 delivered :car:


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## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

Well in the end my pocket got the best of me and defalted back to the CP CLL combo, £40 as opposed to £85 for the Blackfire Wet Diamond kit. It's still within Polished Bliss' recommendations so I think a good choice still. Read up on replacing Carlack Complete with Cleanser Polish and apparently PB consider it a bit of upgrade.

Thanks to everyone who has chipped in, it's refreshing to witness a group of people genuinely interested in helping a relative noob and listening to what I have to say. Thanks guys!


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## Thanatu55 (Sep 25, 2017)

So I just wanted to return to this thread to share my thoughts on the recommended products after first use.

I settled upon Cleanser Polish and Carlack Long Life, been at it all day and the results are outstanding! Best return on investment I've ever had in the world of detailing. I include a rushed photo as the sun went down but it really doesn't do the finish justice.

Thanks to everyone for the advice!


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

steelghost said:


> So Cleanser Fluid and Cleanser Polish are very different products - CF is essentially a panel wipe,If you want really mega flake pop you could even go for a pure acrylic sealant like Carlack Long Life which you can layer up as much as you like (hence always giving you something to put on the car!)


I wondered when a Sealant would be mentioned, and a very good one at that.
Sealants are best for flake pop IMO :thumb:


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## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

Thanatu55 said:


> So I just wanted to return to this thread to share my thoughts on the recommended products after first use.
> 
> I settled upon Cleanser Polish and Carlack Long Life, been at it all day and the results are outstanding! Best return on investment I've ever had in the world of detailing. I include a rushed photo as the sun went down but it really doesn't do the finish justice.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for the advice!


Looks very nice indeed 

Presume you mean BH cleanser polish ?

How did you find the cleanser polish to use ?

How was the Carlack long life to use ?


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