# 3M vs. Menzerna



## justin30513 (Dec 12, 2006)

I have used and do own just about every Menzerna product there is. I'm seeing though, more and more turning towards 3M (Paul Dalton is one).

I would like to get some feed back from those who have switched and like or disliked the 3M polishes.

THANKS!!!


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## Detail My Ride (Apr 19, 2006)

Justin! Long time no speak mate, how you doing?

I personally am not 100% convinced about the 3m polishes as they contain fillers, although they are good polishes and are good as a backup if Menzerna is having one of its 'off days'. Also I think they give a slightly glossier finish.


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## BIG BAVARIAN (May 7, 2006)

not all 3m compounds have fillers    (even if they did,just finish off with 85 rd or ff/fa and it will leave a "true" filler less finish)


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## kings.. (Aug 28, 2007)

which ones have fillers then??? this topic causes conflict! i have spoken to a 3m stockist who assured me the new machine polishes do NOT contain fillers... only the older hand glazes do


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

i havnt switched, but i do have pretty much both ranges.

i still try the menz range 1st, and then switch to the 3m if the menz plays up.


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## justin30513 (Dec 12, 2006)

Gaz W said:


> Justin! Long time no speak mate, how you doing?
> 
> I personally am not 100% convinced about the 3m polishes as they contain fillers, although they are good polishes and are good as a backup if Menzerna is having one of its 'off days'. Also I think they give a slightly glossier finish.


Thanks for the welcome back Gaz!

I'll be back posting more.

Thanks for this insight.


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## talisman (Nov 20, 2006)

I,m sure mr d gets a lot of supplies at reduced rates or for free!!so may be the only reason he is using the 3m range at the moment, he had a little piece recently about getting a couple of makita,s for free due to a feature he did, what i have noticed is the way products come and go, looking in my garage this morning reminded me of the poorboys range, which gets little mention now and even less use by me!!,i shall use up what i have before jumping on the 3m train.....


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

I've switched and very much prefer them, apparently the Trizact contains fillers, but I've been told it's just a tiny bit less cut than Menz 3.02.

Then you have 80349 which I'd hazard a guess at being equivilantish to 106FA, then the 50383 which is a little more cut thn PO85RD and a nice gloss.

I much prefer the 3M as you dont get it playing up like the Menz does and they leave a fantastic finish.

Theres also been a mention of Fast cut plus which I presume is equivilent to Power Gloss (not got any yet but it will be ordered on payday).

The 3M pads (blue waffle) are brilliant and well worth a try (I much prefer these to the megs polishing pads now).

For me they are diffinetly worth the investment and the only Menz I would keep/buy again will be the PO85RD.

Heres a car I did with just 3M polishes and some of the other users have also put their thoughts in there somewhere too
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=48503



Gaz W said:


> Justin! Long time no speak mate, how you doing?
> 
> I personally am not 100% convinced about the 3m polishes as they contain fillers, although they are good polishes and are good as a backup if Menzerna is having one of its 'off days'. Also I think they give a slightly glossier finish.


Have you used them???


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## talisman (Nov 20, 2006)

have to agree with alex on the pads though, very very nice took a bit of searching to find a local stockits for the backing plate and pads but well worth it....keep the 3m pads for my own vechiles and using the sonus ones up on friends!!

Is the general opinion that you are getting a more refinded and glossy finish from the 3m then, has anybody done a 50/50??.


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## CupraRcleanR (Sep 2, 2007)

talisman said:


> I,m sure mr d gets a lot of supplies at reduced rates or for free!!so may be the only reason he is using the 3m range at the moment, he had a little piece recently about getting a couple of makita,s for free due to a feature he did, what i have noticed is the way products come and go, looking in my garage this morning reminded me of the poorboys range, which gets little mention now and even less use by me!!,i shall use up what i have before jumping on the 3m train.....


Good shout. I have the Poorboys compounds and was about to move to Menz. I know that threre was a thread with Compound Comparision Table but I can't find it. Anybody help me here?

Also what do people think of the Poorboys compounds?

Any ideas?


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Not completely sold on the 3m range as yet, all are great to work with and produce nice finishes but IMO not as good as Menz.

There is also the issues with fillers, Ultrafina has them and I wouldn't say it has much in the way of corrective abilities as it's very mild.

Will be sticking to my Menz for the time being and have OP as a back up.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

I've not noticed any fillers in the 50383 or 80349, both times I've used them I've IPA'd and panel prep'd after using them and no swirls or marks reappeared.

I think people have the older hand stuff in mind when they say fillers.

And do you really think being in the position he's in that Paul Dalton would just fill all the swirls on the cars he works on?
Dont think it'd do his reputation much good.


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## justin30513 (Dec 12, 2006)

Alex L said:


> I've switched and very much prefer them, apparently the Trizact contains fillers, but I've been told it's just a tiny bit less cut than Menz 3.02.
> 
> Then you have 80349 which I'd hazard a guess at being equivilantish to 106FA, then the 50383 which is a little more cut thn PO85RD and a nice gloss.
> 
> ...


This is nice info here!

What are the US version's numbers?


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

justin30513 said:


> This is nice info here!
> 
> What are the US version's numbers?


Ummm, not a clue mate


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Jim does 100ml samples of them, I know it may cost a little more to get to you (not sure if he ships to the US) but might be worth a try?

http://autoperfectionworld.co.uk/ca...id=38&osCsid=1849164fa92c5dee9e66843abd50f160


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

I've tried the 3m range of products, along with polishes from many other companies. We've just taken delivery of the full range of Mirka polishes to trial for example.

What I would ask first is why you want to change polishes Justin, as for me the Menzerna range offers me a product for every situation. I do tend to follow the statement in Mike Phillip's old signature - Find something that you like and use it often.

I've had a good bit of practice time in with the Menzerna range. I've found it to be a product with a slightly higher learning curve than say Meguiar's or Poorboys, but one that when mastered gives unmatched levels of gloss.

I found that the 3m polishes did seem to have an easier to work lubrication, but prefer the rather unique way that products like 3.02, 106FA and 85RD all work due to the high quality of the abrasive contained within them.

Until another manufacturer comes up with an abrasive particle for their polish that breaks down in work as consitently as Menzerna Ceramiclear polishes, then 9 times out of 10 I'll still reach for the Menzerna bottles first.

To the poster who asked about the Poorboys polishes - I found that I could create good finishes using these products with ease. The learning curve is a simple one.

I then found that with a bit of practice, that I could create even better finishes with the Menzerna. This range did take a little bit of time to fully master.

On a last note, I've really tried to stay away from using products just because someone else can get good results with it. The only product this doesn't apply to was Megs #83, and then only after Brazo had spent a day showing me how to get the best of finishes from it:thumb:


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## CupraRcleanR (Sep 2, 2007)

L200 Steve said:


> I've tried the 3m range of products, along with polishes from many other companies. We've just taken delivery of the full range of Mirka polishes to trial for example.
> 
> What I would ask first is why you want to change polishes Justin, as for me the Menzerna range offers me a product for every situation. I do tend to follow the statement in Mike Phillip's old signature - Find something that you like and use it often.
> 
> ...


Great post mate. You've cleared up a few things for me there:thumb:


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## GlynRS2 (Jan 21, 2006)

L200 Steve said:


> I do tend to follow the statement in Mike Phillip's old signature - Find something that you like and use it often.


I agree with you. There is a lot of wisdom in that statement. :thumb:


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

80439 is a very good polish.


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Alex L said:


> I've not noticed any fillers in the 50383 or 80349, both times I've used them I've IPA'd and panel prep'd after using them and no swirls or marks reappeared.
> 
> I think people have the older hand stuff in mind when they say fillers.
> 
> ...


I have the 80349 and it has no fillers but on the tests I did with the 50383 it did.
Not really sure as to why you remark to Mr Dalton's reputation being damaged filling swirls as it would have an equal effect on all the pro's that would use it reputation wise.

I haven't really tested any of the other 3m range so can't pass comment.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

I've been playing around with some 3M products recently as I retire into my shed with scrap panels and products for the winter... They are nice, yes, work well, yes, finish well, yes... Loads in the range too so there's a product for most occasions. Much like Menzerna, Meguiars etc etc etc... Likewise I've been starting to try out Presta products and I'm starting to be impressed there too.

Ultimately, a polish is only as good as its user. They have different characteristics but all can ultimately achieve very similar results - a bit like waxes, we are talking nuances in the differences between finishing polishes. Try for yourself cracking the technique with Farecla G10 for example, then see if you can better it with Megs #80, Menz FF etc... You'll have to change your technique here mind, but when each is cracked, is there really a big difference in the results?

Polishes are a fun topic - quite often those that are labelled as the "best" are those that are easy to get on with, hence Menzerna gets a good report and Farecla often does not... Ultimately they are both very good products if you take the time to learn them. 3M is growing in popularity of late, many switching and many liking them which is great, I personally dont get them bettering my Menzerna or Meguiars finishes and as for me Meguiars is less expensive to buy, it wins out. 

But we're all different - the only way you'll know if 3M will work for you is to try it... I dont personally get on that well with Poorboys for example, but its still a good product, just doesn't suit me.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Gleammachine said:


> I have the 80349 and it has no fillers but on the tests I did with the 50383 it did.
> Not really sure as to why you remark to Mr Dalton's reputation being damaged filling swirls as it would have an equal effect on all the pro's that would use it reputation wise.
> 
> I haven't really tested any of the other 3m range so can't pass comment.


I was using him as an example purely because he's one of the few that uses 3M and I wasnt exactly sure who else out of the fulltime guys uses it.

It does seem a little though that because a few of bigger names find that Menerna is best for them that it's the be all and end all of polishes and are not willing to try something else, yet are happy to comment on it and dispell it.

It does sort of come down to the quote of Mike Phillips that Steve put up "find something you like and use it often", but by most peoples nature on this site the need to try everything available is too strong and if something better comes along for that user then great.

For me I've found the products I like but still have a few in reserve (all the Menz Cerami polishes, Megs #80,#83,#84) just incase.

I also think IMHO that when it comes to single stage paint that Megs gives the best finish, but thats just me.

Now if only I could find the balls to try out my managers advice for removing swirls (he used to have the same colour car as me and swears by Colour Magic).


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Agree with you mate, and if there's something out there that works then stick with it, when the menz plays up I tend to use Optimum polish because it works for me.

I have tried some of the 3m polishes and I like the extra fine compound but it doesn't produce the finishes that I get with the above 2.

It's all about trial and error and I could probably open a shop with the excess polishes I have in the van and garage that didn't achieve what I desired.

It's just a personal thing and the 3m polishes aren't producing IMO as well as others I use.

Still am sure Ultrafina has fillers though. :lol: :lol:


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## justin30513 (Dec 12, 2006)

God I love this place!

This is how threads are supposed to go. 

Thanks for all the input guys!!!!


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

3M just doesn't work for me and it's too expensive so I stopped using it.
I've got probably twenty brands of polishes and use them all but Menzerna and Prima get used in my shop the most due to their consistency and far superior colour richness and overall lustre

What I use all depends on the customers preferences. Bright and wet, richer and darker, ultra wetness or if they want the colour shade changed


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## justin30513 (Dec 12, 2006)

Menzerna really astonishes me though!
14 year old paint here!!!

























More to come of this one.


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2007)

I can get the same finish whether using products from Farecla, Menzerna, or 3M! :buffer:

Its all down to personal preference.


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## surgemaster (Jul 5, 2006)

nice motor & even nicer finish but in the English climate ie:- cold & raining most of the time sometimes the people who like menz stuff can't achieve the finish because of the pap weather conditions(doesn't include me cos I don't do cold or rain :doublesho )


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## justin30513 (Dec 12, 2006)

Miracle said:


> I can get the same finish whether using products from Farecla, Menzerna, or 3M! :buffer:
> 
> Its all down to personal preference.


I tend to agree with you Paul. It's all about how you get to it though. Some take longer some don't. To me, it's knowing more about the paint than knowing a lot about just the polish.


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

I’ve never machine polished, but when I do, it seems logical that the least temperamental polishes would be better suited to a novice. So is it true to say, the 3M polishes are generally less temperamental?


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Car Key said:


> I've never machine polished, but when I do, it seems logical that the least temperamental polishes would be better suited to a novice. So is it true to say, the 3M polishes are generally less temperamental?


In that case, I'd strongly consider Meguiars polishes for reliability in all conditions - they just seem to work regardless for me, and are mighty good value for money. Easy to get started with for a newbie to, especially on the PC, thanks to oily nature and a long working time.


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## Phil H (May 14, 2006)

Miracle said:


> I can get the same finish whether using products from Farecla, Menzerna, or 3M! :buffer:
> 
> Its all down to personal preference.


what do you prefer out of the 3?


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## kk1966 (Aug 8, 2007)

Miracle said:


> I can get the same finish whether using products from Farecla, Menzerna, or 3M! :buffer:
> 
> Its all down to personal preference.





justin30513 said:


> I tend to agree with you Paul. It's all about how you get to it though. Some take longer some don't. To me, it's knowing more about the paint than knowing a lot about just the polish.


These quotes just about sum it up for me!

I have been using a rotary for 16'ish years now and have tried many products form the likes of 3M, Farecla, Menzerna, Presta etc.,
The most frustrating thing i find is the amount of hype that Menz 3.02 gets here as i just cannot use it. It doesnt perform for me, doesnt achieve the results i require and is a right PITA. I now exclusively use the Presta range and it never fails me in any conditions.

When i approach a car with the buffer (Chicago Pneumatic ) i already have a rough idea of what to expect in terms of paint hardness and workability based on the vehicles age and make/marque. I then use a product that works for me - not others, as everyone has a different technique. I know that Menz is a good product but i also know its not for me!!!

When working with 3M products it can be pretty irrelevant as to wether it has fillers in it or not. 3M are good CUTTING polishes and compounds and at the end of the day that is what you are looking for. A quick wipedown with alcohol will reveal the true finish you have achieved.

Excuse my ramblings, just needed to air that.


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## CupraRcleanR (Sep 2, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> In that case, I'd strongly consider Meguiars polishes for reliability in all conditions - they just seem to work regardless for me, and are mighty good value for money. Easy to get started with for a newbie to, especially on the PC, thanks to oily nature and a long working time.


Dave, looking to step up work with the Megs compounds from the Poorboys I have used and have heard of the "three stage megs" not sure what this is. The car I'm to work on (in the better weather) is my 05 Cupra R Leon which I believe to have hard VAG paint. Car is pretty sorted but has some very light swirls.

Could you or the other respected gentlemen here point me in the right direction.

(also like the sound of the Megs being long working as the Poorboys work really quickly, too quickly for me.

Thanks:thumb:


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2007)

Phil H said:


> what do you prefer out of the 3?


3M!!!

Extra fine compound is one amazing product and always works amazingly in all conditions. Fast cut PLUS is also a very good product, and also love 50077 Trizact compound and there 3000 grit sanding pads.


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## kk1966 (Aug 8, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> Likewise I've been starting to try out Presta products and I'm starting to be impressed there too.
> 
> .


:thumb: And there was me starting to think i was all on my little lonesome


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

GlynRS2 said:


> I agree with you. There is a lot of wisdom in that statement. :thumb:


Absolutely, it is pretty rare for me to buy into a brand new range these days, I'm more than happy with what I use and for me that is Menzerna.

Haven't really properly tried the 3M products yet, but don't really see the need to at present.


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Dave KG said:


> But we're all different - the only way you'll know if 3M will work for you is to try it... I dont personally get on that well with Poorboys for example, but its still a good product, just doesn't suit me.


That for me is the most important point, just because Paul prefers 3M, Steve Menzerna etc. doesn't mean it will be your favourite, everybody will have a different opinion, find something that works for you.


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> In that case, I'd strongly consider Meguiars polishes for reliability in all conditions - they just seem to work regardless for me, and are mighty good value for money. Easy to get started with for a newbie to, especially on the PC, thanks to oily nature and a long working time.


 Thanks for that advice, Dave :thumb:


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

Krystal-Kleen said:


> These quotes just about sum it up for me!
> 
> I have been using a rotary for 16'ish years now and have tried many products form the likes of 3M, Farecla, Menzerna, Presta etc.,
> The most frustrating thing i find is the amount of hype that Menz 3.02 gets here as i just cannot use it. It doesnt perform for me, doesnt achieve the results i require and is a right PITA. I now exclusively use the Presta range and it never fails me in any conditions.
> ...


Sounds like your working 3.02 for too long or the speeds are wrong
Is it gumming up on you and becoming hard to wipe off the surface?

I think it all comes down to preferences
Long working time polishes like Menz are my preference
Extremely long working time such as Einszett pro line are not

Presta is too dry for my liking and needs glycerin added to the bottle.
dusty polishes are ok with me if they are powerful levelers because glycerin and added white mineral oil will fix that


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## Glossmax (May 9, 2007)

CupraRcleanR said:


> Dave, looking to step up work with the Megs compounds from the Poorboys I have used and have heard of the "three stage megs" not sure what this is. The car I'm to work on (in the better weather) is my 05 Cupra R Leon which I believe to have hard VAG paint. Car is pretty sorted but has some very light swirls.
> 
> Could you or the other respected gentlemen here point me in the right direction.
> 
> ...


Hi mate, not heard of the three stage megs unless it the Deep Crystal range your on about?
I have Menz and Megs if you want to try them out. I tend to prefer Megs overall due to it's slower break down (at least #83) when working on the harder jobs, but there seem to be many polishes out there and I've still got to try more out. Just starting to play with 3M and will have to give Presta a try soon.


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## andyconn (Oct 16, 2007)

i work for a motor factors in northern ireland,looking into stocking presta products at the minute,will need prices etc,does anyone here have a contact number or anything for a uk based dist?cheers andy


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## justin30513 (Dec 12, 2006)

I tend to think that people aka detailers mistaken fillers for lubricants. Lubricants such as waxes or some silicones are needed to suspend abrasives. They tend to fill only if they are incorrectly used aka not broken down or the use of to much product. When I use Meguiars compounds, which are supposed to be high in fillers, I get no noticeable difference in appearance after a IPA wipedown. I used to but that was before I stopped using to much product and not enough time to break it down.

Hope this makes sense.


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