# zaino z8



## Greg_VXR (Nov 21, 2009)

just bought this but having read some reviews it seems like it strips the wax off?

I am doing a full detail after christmas inc claying etc and was going to apply Victoria Concours Wax and then z8 but will the z8 ruin the wax?

Can anyone help please:thumb:


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

I've not used it personllay but I really wouldn't of thought it would strip wax!!?

Sure someone will be able to confirm shortly...


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## ScoobyDan (Aug 26, 2006)

Being a sealant it doesn't bond as well to a wax as it would to another sealant but it definately adds more gloss to the finish. I have used it over Raceglaze 55 and Zymol Concours to good effect and it leaves the surface feeling so silky. Wouldn't have thought it would strip wax.


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## Greg_VXR (Nov 21, 2009)

thanks guys i didnt think it did either but got my doubts from this

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=145613&highlight=pre+wax+cleanser+vs+glaze

anyone else shed some info?


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

In recent lab testing it has been shown that some spray sealants such as this can strip off wax coatings, even fully cured ones. The solvents in the sealant act to remove the underlying wax layer and rather than topping it up, actually replace the wax layer with the sealant. It is very hard to notice this happening in practice as at the end of the day all we can determine is whether or not the cat is protected and naturally it will be after spraying on a sealant - if we keep topping it up we have no way of knowing whether any wax is left there at all, or if it is all just sealant.

The debate is wide open and testing is continuing.. Initial tests from Gordon (caledonia) suggested the solvents in Z8 were not as strong as some other spray sealant "top-ups", but for me the jury is very much out on what the real world effects of these products are on underlying wax layers. I would err on the side of caution and suggest that they are definitely effecting them in some way however.


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Why not just go with the Zaino system if you are concerned? ZAIO, Z2 then Z8 is a great combo and ideal at this time of year.


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

As the final touch to a Zaino detail though :thumb: Good stuff


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## Greg_VXR (Nov 21, 2009)

RussZS said:


> Why not just go with the Zaino system if you are concerned? ZAIO, Z2 then Z8 is a great combo and ideal at this time of year.


i would do this but i have just bought a machine polisher with all the menz polishes and the vics wax and also i still have a full bottle of CG e-glaze which needs to be used or i would go for the full zaino works:thumb:


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Use the Vics and EZ Creme in Summer then  It doesn't even touch Zaino for durability


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## Greg_VXR (Nov 21, 2009)

ano had some in the past great stuff!

See if i was to machine polish how would the zaino detail work? Just go straight to z2 but then what wax ontop of it before the z8?


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

You'd either use a base of ZAIO to prep the paint after polishing, or an IPA wipedown, either of which would be followed by Z2, then top with, and maintain with Z8.


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## Rich (Oct 26, 2005)

The added looks the Z8 seems to give over pretty much all the waxes I have tired it over makes it a worthwhile step for me, weather it sits properly or not, removes some of the underlying wax it really does enhance the looks, other products claim to do this, but don't but the Z8 really does.

I tend to wait a week or so or till after the first wash rather than bang it on straight away which can be the trend on here.

I really like it over FK1000p as well, which gives the Zaino type look standlone with out a lot of the Z fuss.


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## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

Greg_VXR said:


> i would do this but i have just bought a machine polisher with all the menz polishes and the vics wax and also i still have a full bottle of CG e-glaze which needs to be used or i would go for the full zaino works:thumb:


You could also sell your redundant kit in the classifieds section to then help fund the full Zaino purchase. That's what I did when I took the Z plunge :thumb:

There would always be buyers for used products as many people like to chop, change and try out new kit.


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## Greg_VXR (Nov 21, 2009)

ano this might cause a slight argument but i want your honest opinions please!

If i machine polished got all the slight swirling out ok as a base layer what would be the difference between these two:

1. CG e-glaze with a toping of vics red wax and a slight spray of z8
2. ZAIO with z2 and then a slight spray of z8

?


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## Rich (Oct 26, 2005)

Number one will have a warmer deeper glow, number two a glossier more reflective look IMO


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

I'd suggest that looks wise, both would look superb (given your prep) with the Zaino being slightly 'glassier' and the Vics being a touch deeper and 'warmer'

At this time of year though, the water repellency, sheeting properties and durability of Zaino (or any good sealant, but let's stick with Zaino here) would be my choice.

What colour is your VXR?


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## Rich (Oct 26, 2005)

I like the best of both worlds so Zaino base to the required amount of layers topped with wax, and at a later date Z8 to complete the looks. Brazo used to hate me I think !


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

But don't you find that dirt 'sticks' to the wax more, or that you hinder Zaino's sheeting/repellency slightly? I've never tried it with wax on top, so don't know how the paint reacts?

Does it stay slick?


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## Rich (Oct 26, 2005)

RussZS said:


> But don't you find that dirt 'sticks' to the wax more, or that you hinder Zaino's sheeting/repellency slightly? I've never tried it with wax on top, so don't know how the paint reacts?
> 
> Does it stay slick?


I only care for the looks and the fact I know it's durable, the slickness everyone loves about Zaino I don't care so much for.

Standalone I am never happy with the sterile look the Zaino leaves.


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## Greg_VXR (Nov 21, 2009)

ok thanks guys the vxr is arden blue?

The detail wont be getting done till after christmas and when the snow has stopped 

Think i might give number one a try and if its not to my fancy then i will go with the zaino


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

I personally do not see the need to protect this layer. Once it has started to fade either strip it back and start again, or change to something new. But this is what makes us all different, as everyone carries out their own way to protect they car.

Both types of LSP have pluses and minuses. It is down to the individual what is to his advantage.

I will not get drawn into the sealant topping agreement once more. But will leave you with these thoughts. Waxes are a blend of oils and glazing agents.

 These are necessary for the wax to shed water. (oil and water don't mix) If you had to apply a solvent or in the case of some WOWA sealants an alcohol carrier to aid drying. What would happen to these oils. Vics red is an extremely soft oiled paraffin wax. Which has very little volatile qualities.

 The look you gain is from these oils. If you apply an alcohol or solvent to these you displace these oils and they move to the surface. During the buffing or rubbing stage. You are simply wiping these oils across the surface, and where they give the user the desired appeal. They simply wash off soon after.
After all IPA is an alcohol and we all know the effect this has on Oils and glazes.
As mentioned prior Z8 is not the most volatile of solvents and require a bit more time to set up. So in turn is not the most damaging to your wax layer. But damage it will do. Tests are still on going and it is still not fact whether there is a bond created or if these is much wax left after these types of application. So I will not commit any further, on this at present.

You have En Creme glaze which is an acrylic glaze similar to black hole. If you choose you can apply this prior to Z2 as it will have the same effect as Z-AIO. So if you decide on the zaino route then not all your products are surplus to your requirements.

Just don't be come caught up on all the marketing with regards to looks and conserving this as It can cost you money and time.
Gordon.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Greg arden blue and zaino works really well , i wouldnt worry about wax just go for the zaino system , on Arden it really brings out the colour and is so reflective.

This is z2pro.



















and heres a detail of an Arden blue vectra which i did which won show and shine a few weeks later and also shows how to use the system. hope this helps.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=31685


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## Greg_VXR (Nov 21, 2009)

Thanks for that information its much appreciated however i am a wee bit confused lol

Are you saying that you feel the sealent road is the way to go down as the wax will just come off? So the zaino way is better or the other way?
A kind of get what your saying but i am still a bit confused

(i also have jetseal)


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

That does look very nice on Arden Blue. 

For looks and durability you really can't knock Zaino.


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## Greg_VXR (Nov 21, 2009)

Thanks marc! I think i might go for the zaino stuff would you recommend i just get the z2 as i already have CG e-glaze or would you recommend i also buy zaio in place of it?


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

Greg_VXR said:


> Thanks for that information its much appreciated however i am a wee bit confused lol
> 
> Are you saying that you feel the sealent road is the way to go down as the wax will just come off? So the zaino way is better or the other way?
> A kind of get what your saying but i am still a bit confused
> ...


I use Z8 over waxes all the time and haven't really noticed a problem with it personally. I'd say it would go nicely over vics concours.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Greg_VXR said:


> Thanks for that information its much appreciated however i am a wee bit confused lol
> 
> Are you saying that you feel the sealent road is the way to go down as the wax will just come off? So the zaino way is better or the other way?
> A kind of get what your saying but i am still a bit confused
> ...


No im saying that forgetting wax the zaino system on this particular colour works really well , the colour really works well with it , its massively reflective and like a crystal sheet. i think if you try and introduce wax into the equation you wont get the benefits. 
Ive always had superb results with zaino on this colour and combined with z8 as an inbetween top up its a good allrounder especially for durability. The other main factor is cost , z2pro is pence not pounds in the real world of big numbers for £20 you can layer the car up easily over a year , its bang on the bucks moneywise.

i have to be honest i didnt know this information regarding qd,s and z8 removing wax but im very much for the look not the science so if my visuals and the hue hasnt changed im not too concerned.


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## Greg_VXR (Nov 21, 2009)

sorry marc that post wasnt aimed at you it was more for caledonia haha!

From above if i bought the zaino stuff could i use CG e-glaze in place of zaio and then just apply z2 or would u recommend i buy zaio?


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Greg_VXR said:


> Thanks marc! I think i might go for the zaino stuff would you recommend i just get the z2 as i already have CG e-glaze or would you recommend i also buy zaio in place of it?


Greg i have no experience with aio ive only ever done correction , wipedown and then z2pro with zfx kit , im sure someone will advise on this.


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Very simple.
One or the other. Dont mix and match.

Zaino was designed to work with zanio and a wax was designed to be a stand alone product.


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## Greg_VXR (Nov 21, 2009)

Ok no bother thanks for all your help marc!

can i ask one more Q (sorry i know i am a pain lol) but what is the zfx kit for?


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## Greg_VXR (Nov 21, 2009)

caledonia said:


> Very simple.
> One or the other. Dont mix and match.
> 
> Zaino was designed to work with zanio and a wax was designed to be a stand alone product.


Ok thanks! Can you shed any light on the fact i have CG e-glaze and if you feel this will work with z2 or should i buy zaio?


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

caledonia said:


> Very simple.
> One or the other. Dont mix and match.
> 
> Zaino was designed to work with zanio and a wax was designed to be a stand alone product.


Yes i totally agree with this. There are so many times on forums i see ive done the car , ez creme glazed it , jetsealed it , 2 layers of rainforest rub and 2 layers of 476s.

Im like why?

Some of the best results ive ever had are hd cleanse and a wax end of.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Greg_VXR said:


> Ok no bother thanks for all your help marc!
> 
> can i ask one more Q (sorry i know i am a pain lol) but what is the zfx kit for?


Its a catalyser so that you can apply more layers quickly , worth the money to get say 3 layers on in a day rather than waiting.


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## Greg_VXR (Nov 21, 2009)

so basically with this kit you put 5 drops of that blue stuff in with the z2 apply it to the whole car and then buff straight off and apply another rather than waiting for say an hour for it to bound?


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Well sort of , you fill a small container supplied and then add the correct dosage of accelarator to it in drop form and shake to make sure its well mixed together so the catalysation takes place so to speak.
Then apply to the car , leave for about an hour temperature dependant obviously then buff off. You can then start again and get approx 3 layers on in 24 hours.


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## Greg_VXR (Nov 21, 2009)

ok thanks! See if i didnt buy this kit what would the difference be? 
(sorry for the hassle just interested in learning)


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

It would take longer , and thats what the forums for ... simples..


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## Greg_VXR (Nov 21, 2009)

Ok thanks

How long would you advise to leave the z2 on for without this kit and also how long between layers?


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

You seem to be confusing EZ Creme with a paint cleanser - it's a glaze first and foremost, it may correct do a degree via DA (which you may have seen on another of your threads) but this is the pad doing the cutting, not the EZ Creme.

As Marc said, either just wipe the paint down with IPA do remove the oils etc from the polishes, or you can use ZAIO to prep the surface. The main benefit of using ZAIO is that it leaves some protection of its own behind, therefore enhancing overall durability further, and is the perfect base/prep for the Zaino system. For the sake of £20, I'd buy it. You can also use it for many other purposes, such as prep/protection for wheels, and for areas like door sills etc - ZAIO then Z8 alone leaves a superb finish and great durability.

As Marc's pics show, Zaino on Arden looks superb...


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

To be honest 24hrs , zaino do state i think that you need to use the zfx kit on first application but ive done it without and not had a problem and vice versa i havent seen any extra glossyness from using the zfx kit although i have seen before people posting this , maybe its a placebo i dont know , my advice would be to get the zfx kit anyway and do it properly.


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## Greg_VXR (Nov 21, 2009)

Thanks marc will do some looking into and see what i can find i might after all go for the zaino stuff


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

ZFX is supposed to give stronger durability too, so I'd always go for it too. Also get Z6 for wipedowns between layers of Z2.


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Russ
Ez Creme glaze is a chemical cleanser and yes the pad will help with the abrasion created. But it has great cleaning abilities also on its own. It also leaves an acrylic base down on the surface ready for your chosen LSP. Whether it be a wax or a sealant. It is very similar in make up to Black hole and white diamond. So as a base is a nice all rounder. I have not noticed any filling abilities from Ez Creme thou. But this is on my list of to does.

Whether the OP decides on Z-AIO or to use the products he has is up to him. But with either he will not go wrong as you say Z-AIO has many uses also.
Gordon.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

why not , thats the fun with detailing , its certainly not an expensive route to take compared to a high end wax , if the finish is not for you and you want a touch more wetness over the glassyness then maybe try a wax over it at a later date , i did my car 18 months ago with 51 layers and crystal rock , within 8 months id stripped it all off , then it had a wax from chile on it then 3 months later i stripped that off and now it has a wax from lusso being tested , in a months time that will be stripped off and im trying a werkstat system on it with multiple layers. Im enjoying having fun with it and my ultimate prep will be for modified nationals as im inside the arena under good lighting on a stand with a car design company so id like it to look nice and glassy for that.
Its all a challenge to get what you class as the ultimate look , if we stayed with one thing detailing would get very boring i think.


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

*From Victoria site david wyllie :thumb: 
"The only problem with using a Quick Detail Spray over a new coat of wax is many of them have additives in them that are meant to refresh and spruce up an existing coat of wax. On a freshly waxed surface Quick Detail Sprays give a look of too shiny, too wet or too deep* *which may not be the original look of the vehicle"*.

I use QD every 5-6 washes to add fresh look and slickness feeling on surface . I found zymol field glaze good product but not add slickness , with victoria red i found pinnacle crystal mist work very well and renew the true look of victoria Concours.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Im a fan of crystal mist i have a gallon of it. my field glaze grew green algae in it >?


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

vxrmarc said:


> Im a fan of crystal mist i have a gallon of it. my field glaze grew green algae in it >?


Crystal mist worth the money ..:thumb: 
In 500 ml bottle do you dilute it with water ?


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

I buy it in larger format and use neat.


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

did you try souveran liquid spray anygood?


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