# Supplements re-visited



## Killahertz (Mar 8, 2007)

So, who's taking what? Man enough to fess' up? I answered a previous/similar thread, but have recenty updated/improved my supplementation. 

OK, so first off, if you lift weight you must, I mean really must consider Jack3d from USP labs. Second, if you want to rip and/or lose alpha 2 fat then you must, I mean reallly must consider Oxyelite, again from USP labs. Do not under-estimate the effect of either...


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## pooma (Apr 12, 2008)

I've heard good things about Jack3d, it's meant to give quite a kick. I've not lifted weights for a while but really should get back into the gym.


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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

I've tried Jack3d & stopped using it after a week...it gave me what can only be described as the 'tingles' - this after a bit of research is the Beta-alanine content which affects some & not others.

Currently using PHD ******* Iso-7 which is really good & fits in with my current goals perfectly.


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

Pre Workout-Alternate fortnightly between USP Jack3d and Superpump Max, so I don't get used to either.

Creatine-Creapure from MyProtein. Cycle 4 weeks on 1 off

L-Glutamine from MyProtein with every shake

Protein powder-BSN Syntha 6-Cookies N Cream. Brilliant stuff, mixes really well to a nice thin mixture with milk, tastes soooo nice and is very effective for nice lean muscle gain. I have tried ALOT of powders and this is by far the best.


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## Killahertz (Mar 8, 2007)

Ben_ZS said:


> Pre Workout-Alternate fortnightly between USP Jack3d and Superpump Max, so I don't get used to either.


Superpump Max was an option (still is), especially after using Superpump 250. I like the 'pump' from 250, especially on arm work. Jack3d doesn't have the same pump, but the focus and desire is insane. I wonder what it would be like to stack 250 with Jack3d? I'm not overly sensitive to stims so maybe i'll give it a try?

PS: How would you rate/differentiate Max versus Jack3d?


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## ivor (Sep 24, 2008)

The question should also be when do you start taking them as some people think you need them as soon as you start training personally I take them after I hit a Plateau then it's just to get past it. 

Here's a thing got I recently decided to go supplement free to see what the effects would be if any the effect I got was a bit puzzling as I found I could bench more lift more and run for longer I also started to loose fat and now after a nearly a month off I look more defined and in better shape than when I was on them.

My favourite supplements to use has always been LAMUSCLE and have tried a variety of their products some gave me an amazing buzz to the point where I knew in my head I needed to stop training even though I felt I could go on for ages


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

I've tried a few, Jack3d is ok but after one tub most get get used to it and it's about effective as water imho.

Superpump 250 and Size-on were quite a good combo and I made a few increases to my lifts on this. Could also of been because I was doing Strength training at the time.

The only Pre that has really made a difference for me was Muscletech NAno Vapor, I put on some good muscle size and increaed lifts when I started taking this (after finishing Jack3d).

For Protien I really like Muscle Milk as it's had the best flavour of the ones I've tried.



ivor said:


> Here's a thing got I recently decided to go supplement free to see what the effects would be if any the effect I got was a bit puzzling as I found I could bench more lift more and run for longer I also started to loose fat and now after a nearly a month off I look more defined and in better shape than when I was on them.


I've been off all Pre and Intra supplements for 2 weeks and haven't noticed a difference yet other than maybe a little more in my head saying take the night off, previously if I took one I'd go just so I didn't waste my money lol.


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## Killahertz (Mar 8, 2007)

Alex L said:


> The only Pre that has really made a difference for me was Muscletech NAno Vapor...


Hmmm... another option for me. Without overdoing the comparison thing, what does Vapor do that Jack3d doesn't, or does differently? From the ingedient list it suggests the usual 'pump' ingredients but zero serious focus/energy ingredients? Their new 'Neorocore', however, does look interesting.


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

Has anybody got any suggestions for fat burners please?


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Killahertz said:


> Hmmm... another option for me. Without overdoing the comparison thing, what does Vapor do that Jack3d doesn't, or does differently? From the ingedient list it suggests the usual 'pump' ingredients but zero serious focus/energy ingredients? Their new 'Neorocore', however, does look interesting.


For me it felt like my lifts went up and a size increase on my muscles, whereas Jack3d for me was more like taking a Redbull with added tingly skin for 10 minutes.

I've not seen the Neorocore yet as things are quite slow on the supplement front here, my local supplier has only just been able to sell Superpump Max in the last couple of weeks.
I think the supplement market is a bit regulated here as all products have to be re-labelled to show half the recommended doseage.


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## Killahertz (Mar 8, 2007)

Ben_ZS said:


> Has anybody got any suggestions for fat burners please?


Oxyelite from USP labs. Very potent, and you can really 'feel' the effects. Focus and positivity is imense. Another option is Nutrex Lipo 6 Black, which is a good fat burner, but without the 'feel' of Oxyelite.


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

Cheers mate, I did look at Oxyelite but I've just ordered these to try as they were dirt cheap, and some decent reviews aswell 

http://www.bodyshapersfitness.com/specialoffers/lb29-labrada_xhilar8_60ct.htm

I've also ordered some PHD Pharma Whey as I've heard really good things about it, and they didn't have any 2.2kg Syntha 6 in stock. 

If anybody is interested Jack3d is on offer there too in Blue Rasberry which is a nice flavour, and they are a great company to order from. I've just ordered some as mine is running low.

http://www.bodyshapersfitness.com/specialoffers/usp_labs_jack3d_250g.htm

I've have been using Superpump/Jack3d for 2 years solid now, so may try a month without it. :speechles


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

ivor said:


> The question should also be when do you start taking them as some people think you need them as soon as you start training personally I take them after I hit a Plateau then it's just to get past it.
> 
> Here's a thing got I recently decided to go supplement free to see what the effects would be if any the effect I got was a bit puzzling as I found I could bench more lift more and run for longer I also started to loose fat and now after a nearly a month off I look more defined and in better shape than when I was on them.
> 
> My favourite supplements to use has always been LAMUSCLE and have tried a variety of their products some gave me an amazing buzz to the point where I knew in my head I needed to stop training even though I felt I could go on for ages


I agree just started a course of Test booster and already seeing gains. Hit a plateau for the last 4months and just simply couldn't get past it. Tried everything.


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## ivor (Sep 24, 2008)

my trainings going good without I'm averaging a 5kg increase a week for the bench but stuck at 250kg for leg press I'm putting the bench increase down to only working on it once a week but also doing reverse grip bench for triceps as it's a very under used and underestimated exercise plus downloaded Imuscle for the Ipod and started to target the serratus muscle group


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

ivor said:


> my trainings going good without I'm averaging a 5kg increase a week for the bench but stuck at 250kg for leg press I'm putting the bench increase down to only working on it once a week but also doing reverse grip bench for triceps as it's a very under used and underestimated exercise plus downloaded Imuscle for the Ipod and started to target the serratus muscle group


See for the last 4 months I have stayed at 75kg and couldnt go higher....despite upping my calories to close to 3100 a day and training harder, size was not happening.

Sometimes you just need a bit of push to get over the plateau


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## ivor (Sep 24, 2008)

true but have you tried attacking it from a different angle I still like using the push/pull routine as it works for me 
monday -chest/back 3 sets each side 12-10-8 
wednesday -shoulders/thighs as above
friday- Biceps/triceps 

and always try to use a different exercise each week as it stops the body getting used to it A good one for chest is to use the cables and set them so they are level with your hands then take two or three steps forward and bring them up to level like your giving and upper cut to someone it works your whole chest the main thing is form not weight my bench is up to 85kg now but 6yrs ago I was at 150kg don't thnk I'll ever hit that again


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Yep done all that and yes do different exercises for each muscle group...normally rotate every couple of weeks though.


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## Killahertz (Mar 8, 2007)

Ben_ZS said:


> Cheers mate, I did look at Oxyelite but I've just ordered these to try as they were dirt cheap, and some decent reviews aswell
> 
> http://www.bodyshapersfitness.com/specialoffers/lb29-labrada_xhilar8_60ct.htm


They do look a little simplistic ingredient-wise, and as for containing 'a small mount of caffiene', hmmm...hardly, especially when you consider that Kola and Guarana are their solely for their caffiene content too (they metabolize differently in an attempt to mellow the energy rush/crash). Notwithstanding the Rhodiola they look similar to Body Supreme Extreme Ripped, which you can get off-the-shelf at Asda for £6.60. May do the trick, let us know, but don't forget to keep yourself well hydrated 

Damn good price on the Jack3d.


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

Killahertz said:


> They do look a little simplistic ingredient-wise, and as for containing 'a small mount of caffiene', hmmm...hardly, especially when you consider that Kola and Guarana are their solely for their caffiene content too (they metabolize differently in an attempt to mellow the energy rush/crash). Notwithstanding the Rhodiola they look similar to Body Supreme Extreme Ripped, which you can get off-the-shelf at Asda for £6.60. May do the trick, let us know, but don't forget to keep yourself well hydrated
> 
> Damn good price on the Jack3d.


Cheers mate I'll let you know how I get on with them.

Yea I keep well hydrated anyway, at least 2.5 litres of water a day. :thumb:


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## zimtimtim (Jul 30, 2010)

USP Jack3d - It's based ingredient is a hardcore stimulant called Geranium oil (1,3, Dimethylamyaline). This is what gives you the focus and buzz. Not the most healthiest thing to consume but what Pre workout is... This WILL show a postive on any drugs test due to it's stimulant base.

The best pre workout is Nox Pump hands down. This has the right amount of bit in it to actually work and is not just label fluff like many around.


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## nick-a6 (Jun 9, 2007)

Interesting thread I'm totally off any kind of supplements at the moment including any protein shakes!
I never noticed much difference from not using the shakes etc apart from aching a bit more. Thinking of starting back on the protein shakes again though as I don't seem to be going up the weights much now bench is maxed at 80kg and has been for a few weeks now. The shakes may just be the push I need as I train in the mornings so its always that little bit harder


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Used to take all sorts of powders and supplements but found simply eating a lot of decent , structured food helped more. I put on 3 healthy stone simply eating a good diet.

Creatine definitely works but drink extra water.


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## ant_s (Jan 29, 2009)

Anyone recomend any supplements for gaining weight and helping build muscle?

I used to be much physically fitter than I am now, but stopped training and all my sports, and have lost (basically) all my strength and size lol. Now I have space to start using my weights/equipment again i'm going too. I have upped my intake the last few weeks to try and gain weight but nothing so far.

Or is it recommended to train and then start adding supplements? 

But if anyone does recommend any, i'm fussy with taste's lol, so mixed with water is probably best


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

Ant - I tried all sorts while working out and not a lot happened. Then I looked at my routine, sorted it right out (basically a split routine with every last set to failure) and my appetite just naturally shot up.

I was a skint student at the time but got by on loads of rice, cheap chicken, tuna and pasta and the gains were very rapid.

Sort a routine first IMO and eat sensibly and you won't need supplements.


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## Killahertz (Mar 8, 2007)

zimtimtim said:


> USP Jack3d - It's based ingredient is a hardcore stimulant called Geranium oil (1,3, Dimethylamyaline).
> 
> The best pre workout...


Or DMAA for short. Sceptics should do a Google search for it. It's not to be underestimated as a supplement. Yes, these supplements can help, but they are never a replacement for good diet and hard work.

As for 'the best', there is no 'best'. What works for one person may not work for another. Also depends on your goals and your needs. That said, NOX Pump is full of DMAA, so not short of stimulation.


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

I've just got a tub of PHD Pharma Whey Choc Mint and the taste is incredible! Easily the best I've had and I've tried ALOT of protein powders.

Nox Pump is absolutely insane, I trained like I never did before on that one shoulder and trap session. The 'come down' after was terrible though and my mood swings were bad. 

I'm going supplement free for a while now. I can't for the life of me get the size on my arms that I'd like.


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## nick-a6 (Jun 9, 2007)

I'm looking at this next PHD Pharma Whey, as price wise its not much difference from the myprotein stuff and my gym sells it for a decent price so no postage to mess about with.
Have to let me know how you get on with it


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

Reflex Instant Whey is good and Choc Mint is the **** !

As im always away with work and such I get some NSC Pro Shots, which when consumed can double up as a pleasing device for you and yer missus, if yer into that. (Look and see what I mean)

http://www.discount-supplements.co.uk/sports-supplements-whey-protein-nsc-pro-shot-1-x-25g-vials

I also have a wee stash of Pro50 bars in the bag and laptop case incase I cant get any food, at least can have some proootteeeiiiiiiiin.


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

nick-a6 said:


> I'm looking at this next PHD Pharma Whey, as price wise its not much difference from the myprotein stuff and my gym sells it for a decent price so no postage to mess about with.
> Have to let me know how you get on with it


Sure will Nick :thumb: So far so good though.

If you like Mint Feast ice creams the choc mint the way to go.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Ben_ZS said:


> I'm going supplement free for a while now. I can't for the life of me get the size on my arms that I'd like.


lol, tell me about it, legs, chest, back & shoulders all grow but my arms stay spindly


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## nick-a6 (Jun 9, 2007)

Alex L said:


> lol, tell me about it, legs, chest, back & shoulders all grow but my arms stay spindly


What exercise's are you doing on your arms? I like to think I have decent sized arms when I'm not training they are to big for the rest of me to be honest lol


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

nick-a6 said:


> What exercise's are you doing on your arms? I like to think I have decent sized arms when I'm not training they are to big for the rest of me to be honest lol


Just the usual really, Chest and Tri day its:

close grip bench, DB row, skull crushers, weighted dips, tri-ext and finish with a drop set tri pull downs.

Back and Bi day is:

Preacher curls, hammer curls, BB curls & drop set cable curls.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Form is very important. The times I see people giving it the beans and have no form!


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## nick-a6 (Jun 9, 2007)

Agreed form for arms especially is very important if your swinging them it aint working!
Have your tried doing 21's and pull up for your biceps.
I also do a routine with 3 barbels 
45kg barbell 12 reps
35kg Barbell 10 reps
25kg Barbell 8 reps
all straight after each other no rest and 1 minute rest between sets for 3 sets . That will really work your biceps obviously adjust the weights to suite


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## mainsy (May 27, 2008)

I used to have small biceps, so dedicated a night just for them. 
4 sets of 12 reps, four exercises, change every 6 weeks just to keep my body guessing. Then always finish with 3 sets of 20 reps on the ez-bar just to really take my arms to failure. Really worked a treat and my biceps feel really solid now aswell.

But my arms are really looking much bigger now because I'm really blasting my tri's and getting more mass there.

And yes form is more important than weight. I get better pump and feel more burn with very slow tight movements.


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## Killahertz (Mar 8, 2007)

mainsy said:


> ...And yes form is more important than weight. I get better pump and feel more burn with very slow tight movements.


Couldn't agree more. I'm still on the first few rungs training-wise and starting off you sort of imagine that hammering out the reps as fast as possible is, well, sort of hardcore. Far from it - a slow steady tempo is the best advice i've been given. Virtually forces you to keep form. And the burn you get, especially when you take a set to failure is incredible


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

nick-a6 said:


> Agreed form for arms especially is very important if your swinging them it aint working!
> Have your tried doing 21's and pull up for your biceps.
> I also do a routine with 3 barbels
> 45kg barbell 12 reps
> ...


Forms always good when it comes to arms, it's funny watching the skinny kids curl more than me with their back doing all the work.

and don't get me started on the pain of 21's lol


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

mainsy said:


> But my arms are really looking much bigger now because I'm really blasting my tri's and getting more mass there.
> 
> And yes form is more important than weight. I get better pump and feel more burn with very slow tight movements.


Yeah, Tri days my arms feel massive. Can't beat weighted dips and close grip Bench for them.


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## 335dAND110XS (Dec 17, 2010)

For a real arm blast, curl heavyish dumbbells to failure then immediately pick up another pair at half the weight and carry on to failure - it gives a hell of a good burn!

I do the same with overhead tricep presses.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

335dAND110XS said:


> For a real arm blast, curl heavyish dumbbells to failure then immediately pick up another pair at half the weight and carry on to failure - it gives a hell of a good burn!
> 
> I do the same with overhead tricep presses.


Try drop sets, pretty much the same thing.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

335dAND110XS said:


> For a real arm blast, curl heavyish dumbbells to failure then immediately pick up another pair at half the weight and carry on to failure - it gives a hell of a good burn!
> 
> I do the same with overhead tricep presses.


No good for strength building but as you say good for a muscle pump


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