# My wax doesn't seem to last



## sam1970 (Jan 21, 2017)

Hi

I haven't been on the forum long and am new to detailing so bear with me.

I recently starting waxing the car. I used BH snowfoam, Megs wash and wax, Sonax cleanser and then Collinite 845 wax. Car looked fantastic with fantastic beading but when I washed the car a week later I noticed the beading/sheeting was significantly reduced. Inoticed this whilst washing.

As it had only been a week since the first application of wax I applied another coat of Collinite without using a cleanser. Again during the week I noticed fantastic results when it rained.

At the end of the week I wash the car again and same thing ie during the wash I notice that the beading/sheeting is significantly reduced.

I've read that the wax should last over 4 weeks and the road conditions have not actually been that bad down here. 

Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks very much


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## Moet1974 (Sep 13, 2015)

Are you washing with the Megs wash and wax after the wax? The megs Gold class wash and wax is quite renowned for clogging up any LSP and hence spoiling the attributes of the wax.:thumb:


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## Tim662 (Aug 19, 2014)

Collinite 845 should last more than even 4 weeks!

Are you warming the bottle up and giving it a REALLY good shake first? It should be basically like water, no thickness to it at all.


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

I use two coats of 845 and that lasts 6 months plus with washes every week or two. I think the megs wash and wax is the issue here as mentioned. Far better off with a regular shampoo.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

Exactly my comment in another thread.

I want a single use product. I don't want a shampoo that waxes. I don't want stuff that leaves something behind as it then needs another product to counter it.

A shampoo just like using washing up liquid for the pots and pans should make them clean, degrease them, etc. and after a rinse be gone.


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## G.P (Dec 13, 2011)

For me I never found 845 to last long as others find but I used to get more than 4 weeks from it.

Whilst I completely understand the enjoyment of using a wax, I now understand the easy of use and longevity a sealant provides during the winter months.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

Ive had issues with certain cars which just dont tend to like wax/sealant or anything put on them.

Everything just comes off in a matter of weeks or maybe 2 months at most. Seems to be a problem with certain clearcoats.


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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

Try another shampoo:thumb:

Chris


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Just checking, what paint prep did you do before the first coat of wax?


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## cargainz (Jul 25, 2016)

As others have said Collinite is quite durable (particularly the 476 but you have to apply a bit of elbow grease in application or choose the 845 or 925). Perhaps the bottle might have needed some shaking to ensure consistency/thickness (particularly in this cold weather)?



Collinite FAQ said:


> *Are the No. 845 and No. 925 supposed to be thick/hard like a paste, or thin like a liquid?*
> The viscosity of the 845/925 is certainly thicker than many liquid versions of a paste wax. Simply put, there is a lot of wax in each bottle which makes it thicker. Also, we added more carnauba to the formula a few years back to prevent product separation, and improve gloss/durability.
> The 845/925 now discharges from the bottle more like toothpaste than liquid because its higher concentration of wax. The application, spread and ease of use are the same as in the past. If making the product more liquid-like is desired, we recommend submerging the bottle (capped) in a warm-hot pot of water for 5 minutes. Remove and shake the bottle vigorously with your thumb tightly on the cap for one full minute. The added heat and friction from shaking will warm the bottle's contents and the creamy liquid consistency will be formed. In the colder months of the year, the thicker 845/925 is now the norm if not altered by the aforementioned method.


Just a thought.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

As Moet1974, Summit Detailing and others have suggested I'd try a different shampoo. 

Alan W

EDIT: OP has said he used Sonax Cleanser (Paint Prepare?) before applying 845 wax.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

steelghost said:


> Just checking, what paint prep did you do before the first coat of wax?


This. Clay and final polish (with a DA for better and faster work) will ensure the LSP is far more effective is both effectiveness and durability.

As is common with a lot of detailing, preparation is key!


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## sam1970 (Jan 21, 2017)

Thanks very much.

There seems to be a number of things I could improve on.

1) I use Meguiars ultimate wax and wash. A few people have suggested that this is the cause. What should I use instead?

2) Collinite 845. Even though it's kept inside the house in my utility room the consistency has always been very thick. I'd say like clott3d cream but with semi hard lumps.
Should I put the bottle in warm water to make it more like a liquid?

3) In terms of prep. I didn't clay it but when I first got the vehicle (Nov 2016) I had a mobile valeter clean it and he said he clayed it.

Perhaps I should clay it again? Do I need to polish it as well?


Thanks again


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## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

Any pure shampoo for the first question. My favourite is Gyeon Bathe.

Not used the particular product for 2 so sorry no help there.

If you can prep the paint as much as possible prior to applying LSP then you should see longer out of it so if you can do a full decon, polish then say an IPA wipe down you should be grand


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

sam1970 said:


> Thanks very much.
> 
> There seems to be a number of things I could improve on.
> 
> ...


Can't help with 1) as never used it, but would be surprised if it was that. Doubt its number 2) either, but could be.

Easiest way to test if it needs claying is to rub your hand on the paint work with your hand in a thin plastic bag. If it feels rough or the plastic bag 'catches' then it needs a clay. Basically the paint should feel smooth as glass.

A polish is a sure fire way to ensure the paint is completely cleansed and contaminate free. A wax applied to completely 'naked' paint will always yield the best results. At the very least, I would check if it needs claying again, then apply something like Bilt Hamper cleanser fluid if you don't have access/time for a final polish using a DA.

HTH!


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

The problem with the wash and wax is that it is leaving behind a protective film on the surface which is intended to prevent dirt or other contaminants from sticking to it, unfortunately it is also preventing the wax from sticking, so it is just washing off. Switch to a non wax shampoo then reapply the Collie. 845 does separate, especially when left over time, so it should be thoroughly mixed, heat it in warm water, not boiling, for a few minutes and shake vigorously, then apply as a normal liquid wax. I use a da with a very soft pad and once the pad is primed, a little goes a very long way. The da ensures a thin and even coat and makes it a doddle to buff off by hand after a few minutes cure time.

Do the plastic bag test as the good Dr suggests but I would recommend a clay anyway to make sure all of the megs is gone, re-wash after claying with your new shampoo and you're good to go.


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## sam1970 (Jan 21, 2017)

Hi guys

This is what the 'beading' looks like on my car after a couple of washes. To me it didn't look that good and that's why I assumed the wax wasn't lasting very long.

I'd be interested in your opinion.

Thanks very much


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

It's slightly still there but what wax did you use and what prep did you do?


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

As others have said, try another shampoo. The wax will still be there, just the beading modified by the Megs wash and wax.


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## sam1970 (Jan 21, 2017)

Thanks.

Going by Lowiepete's posts I've made some serious errors. Each time I've applied the wax it's been really cold outside, probably a max of 8 degrees vs the recommended 15 degs. It's also not remained dry for 12 hours.

It could be quite sometime until we see temps above 15 degrees so I might as well stop wasting my time applying further coats for now.

Just to be clear, are we saying that the Megs shampoo is actually stopping the wax from bonding or just affecting the beading effect?

Thanks very much


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

sam1970 said:


> Just to be clear, are we saying that the Megs shampoo is actually stopping the wax from bonding or just affecting the beading effect?
> 
> Thanks very much


The Meg's shampoo is sitting on top of your wax and affecting the beading in my, and others, opinion and leaving behind its gloss improvers and conditioners etc. See the Meguiar's description for Gold Class shampoo below:

_*Luxurious lather and rich conditioners nourish your finish, and the brilliantly slick surface chases water off your paint, reducing drying time and leaving a shimmering gloss.*_

Alan W


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

My take, for what it's worth: I think your Meguiars shampoo is affecting the beading, but I doubt it's doing any harm to the Collinite wax when you apply it. I think this because Collinite contains a high proportion of organic solvents which are likely to dissolve the shampoo wax residue, and then most of the Collinite you apply gets buffed off in the end.

Given you have had the expected beading characteristics (which Lowiepete is absolutely correct about, beading is not the absolute indicator of paint protection, although it's a reasonable proxy for normal wax when washed with shampoos that don't leave anything behind) - I suspect the Collinite is actually going on and curing fine, albeit slower than it would in higher temps.

However I think the only way to know for sure would be to re-apply the wax and then wash using a different "pure" shampoo ie one that doesn't leave anything on the paint. Personally I would use a paint cleaner to strip one panel back altogether so you then know you're starting afresh.

FWIW if you need a "real" winter wax (ie one you can use in actual winter conditions), Bilt Hamber Double Speed-Wax will apply and cure in single digit C temps no bother - I've even had the panel drop below the dew point temp and hence start to get condensation on it _as the wax was curing_. Buffed it off with a plush MF, no problems at all, still going strong 4 months later.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

I think what steelghost last sentence says is spot on but all melarky going on that beading isn't a absolute indicator of paint protection is a load of rubbish. Having tight beads and uniformed beads is an indication that the paints surface is well protected, in your picture it shows that the beads aren't uniformed and they are slowly being degraded by what ever you are doing. Just strip it back i.e. A full decon would help and apply again, as steelghost has mentioned DSW is probably the best wax for protection and in these conditions it's simple to apply and remove. Change your shampoo as well.


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## phooeyman (Jul 13, 2016)

Use a drying aid QD of your choice to add that lift if you are a beeding fan as said the wax protection is there i think you are looking for effect, its speeds things up for drying too a QD + Loop weave dryer would give you a great after dry look with beeding galore especially using infinity wax QD (rapid detailer)


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## sam1970 (Jan 21, 2017)

Thanks guys, all very helpful posts. I'll change the shampoo, cleanse the paint and either wait until the temps improve or try the DSW.

Thanks very much.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

sam1970 said:


> Thanks guys, all very helpful posts. I'll change the shampoo, cleanse the paint and either wait until the temps improve or try the DSW.
> 
> Thanks very much.


Something like Dodo BTBM (Born To Be Mild) or Gtechniq G-Wash are known to be good 'simple' shampoos without gloss enhancers etc but there will be many others also.

Alan W


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

steelghost said:


> Given you have had the expected beading characteristics (which Lowiepete is absolutely correct about, beading is not the absolute indicator of paint protection, although *it's a reasonable proxy for normal wax when washed with shampoos that don't leave anything behind*) - I suspect the Collinite is actually going on and curing fine, albeit slower than it would in higher temps.


Emphasis mine.

All that beading means is that the paint is covered with something hydrophobic. If I applied margarine with a finishing pad, I'd get beading (for a bit) but I don't know if anyone here would define that as "well protected"!

Wax is by nature a hydrophobic substance (and can be made even more so with the right additives, see eg Wowos Contact 121). But plenty of LSPs don't have very "good" beading (ie are not super-hydrophobic) even when recently applied. Bilt Hamber Auto Balm is a good example of this that I have first hand experience of.

Water isn't the only thing that an LSP protects paint from; UV light, salt, bug guts, etc. None of these "need" to cause water beading to be effective, especially if we're talking about certain kinds of sealants and coatings.

Now if wax is your LSP of choice, then beading (assuming the surface is clean and hasn't been "polluted" with wash & wax residues) is a reasonable measure of how much wax is left and what protection that wax is or is not providing. But for all I know, wax may keep on blocking eg UV well before or well after the beading has got to the point where most people would consider the wax "gone".


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## dchapman88 (Mar 17, 2016)

Anyone good with photoshop?
Would be nice to see a tub of steelghost's margarine wax! 

Lol


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

OMG:lol:


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

dchapman88 said:


> Anyone good with photoshop?
> Would be nice to see a tub of steelghost's margarine wax!
> 
> Lol


We should call it "Vitalite" :lol:


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## Forsh (Jun 13, 2014)

*"I can't believe it's not DSW"* 



Here's an experiment for you...
Wax a flat panel, put a bead of water on there, now dip a ****tail stick in some washing-up liquid and touch the bead and see what happens?

Lack of beading could mean you still have some detergent on there too rather than a lack of wax



sam1970 said:


> I noticed this whilst washing.


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

dchapman88 said:


> Anyone good with photoshop?
> Would be nice to see a tub of steelghost's margarine wax!
> 
> Lol


G3 SuperGloss Paste Wax is almost margarine like in consistency, maybe not the best wax, but it is quite remarkably easy to apply.

Apropos the ongoing discussion, what we could really do with is a tame Gerridae on the DW test team, who could accurately tell us what was going on with LSP's water behaviour down at that level.

I would agree that beading is not necessarily an indication of LSP, but a visual indication that conditions are right for tight surface tension to exist. Very clean paint alone will exhibit crazy tight beads, as i have seen recently with a resprayed bumper with no wax on it.

I would agree also that your LSP beading can be made to look gone, then be made to reappear, depending on what the paint has been cleaned with. Shampoos with any sort of "wax" element will leave their own beading behaviour for a few days on top of your LSP, until it is washed away by the weather.

In practical terms tho, tight beading gives us some sort of vague barometer as to how "fresh" a coat of wax / sealant is, as there is little other way of telling day-to-day.


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## graham1970 (Oct 7, 2012)

Nowadays when I see tight beading on my car I just think great,dusty water spots when the beads dry😞

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Hah, I have a love / hate relationship with beading and very hydrophic LSPs for exactly the same reason


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

graham1970 said:


> Nowadays when I see tight beading on my car I just think great,dusty water spots when the beads dry😞


I much prefer a product that sheets water off quickly and keeps the paint cleaner for longer. 

Alan W


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## graham1970 (Oct 7, 2012)

Alan W said:


> I much prefer a product that sheets water off quickly and keeps the paint cleaner for longer.
> 
> Alan W


What would you recommend Alan for those of us who don't have a garage? Would consider a product that sheets better for winter months

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

graham1970 said:


> What would you recommend Alan for those of us who don't have a garage? Would consider a product that sheets better for winter months


Generally the higher the contact angle the better the sheeting should be. Exo V2 has a contact angle between 115 and 120 degrees and this is my favourite LSP along with Kamikaze ISM (105 deg. contact angle).

These coatings also cure harder than waxes which remain soft and tend to hold water and beads more readily.

Some new waxes though have caught my eye, and should be good in theory, are Si02 infused hybrid/ceramic waxes such as Fireball Fusion and Angelwax Enigma but I have yet to try these.

Unfortunately the above products do need to be kept dry for a short period of time but it doesn't rain every day and night and it should be possible to apply and keep them from getting wet if you keep an eye on the weather forecast and choose a dry weather window to apply them.

Hope that helps and perhaps others can recommend some sheeters rather than beaders. 

Alan W


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## Coupe25 (Feb 11, 2017)

Since using Meguiars Gold Class shampoo my car has looked cleaner for longer and the Poorboys wax has lasted much longer and beaded better as well.
I was using Carplan wash and wax as a cleaner before hand, which was obviously covering up the Poorboys with its built in wax.


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## Kam09 (Apr 11, 2014)

So any recommendations for waxes that sheet more than they bead ? Ideally not at extortionate prices..


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

Wowos Contact 121, apparently.



> I was also told that this wax was meant to sheet rather than bead so if it beads this well I needed to check how well it sheets, so have a quick look at the clip below and make up your own mind :lol:







Generally though, sealants seem to sheet better than waxes due to being that bit less hydrophobic.


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## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

steelghost said:


> Wowos Contact 121, apparently.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have 121 on my bonnet at the moment and it's great at sheating the water off, well and truly on the move and virtually clear by 30mph. A very nice wax it's lasting well with basic maintenance washes. Not as easy to apply as the other waxes I was using at the same time on other parts of the car but we are talking marginal differences and nothing that would cause any great hardship.


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## sam1970 (Jan 21, 2017)

Thanks for the input, much appreciated.

So I've ditched the Meguairs ultimate wax and wash and tried some autoglym bodywork shampoo. I didn't have the time or weather to cleanse and apply and new coat of wax so it was just

1) Snow foam with BH

2) Two bucket wash with the the autoglym shampoo

3) Dry with megs MF cloth.

This is the fourth wash after the Collinite 845 wax application and personally I must say it still gives a beautiful shine. The pictures were taken when it was very over cast




























And this is how the beading looks










I'll have to wait until the weather improves before I can cleanse and make sure I apply the wax properly (ie at the right ambient temp)

Thanks again


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