# Graphene - the next big craze?



## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Any thoughts / opinions / expectations of Graphene based products?

I see a recent video from Brian @ Apex Detailing and it sounds pretty exciting. Having searched the forum there seem to be a couple of Graphene infused waxes which have had rave reviews but not received much coverage.

I see GTechniq and Gyeon amongst others have hinted at new product launches at SEMA, wonder is it too early to be seeing these enter the market on a bigger scale?


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## camerashy (Feb 9, 2014)

I was fortunate enough to win a graphene wax sample produced by Alfred early this year 
I tried it a few times it didn’t do anything above and beyond what my normal waxes do. I found it hard to remove but that may have been me applying too much but at the end of the day I passed it on


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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

I've had the SPS Graphene coating on my car since around May of 2019. The SPS is Alfred/Art d Shine product here in the US.

It's done quite well so far, dunno if its strictly because if the graphene or not but I'm pretty impressed at this point. I keep my notes on it here: https://budgetplan1.wordpress.com/sps-graphene-coating/

I'll bet we'll hear a bit more about Graphene later this week when the big SEMA show concludes...


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## Deje (Aug 12, 2016)

I'am confused, Graphene is a single layer (monolayer) of carbon atoms and Layers of graphene stacked on top of each other form graphite, how is it possible to just lay one layer of it then ?


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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

Deje said:


> I'am confused, Graphene is a single layer (monolayer) of carbon atoms and Layers of graphene stacked on top of each other form graphite, how is it possible to just lay one layer of it then ?


Dunno the science or the chemistry behind it but I'd do know that whatever it is, it seems to work very well, albeit only 6 months in.

If it has the legs to go 2 years, it might just take a place in the #2 slot of the 20-25 coatings I've been using/watching over the last 2.5 years.

Seems to do quite well even though my maintenance of this black, daily driver Honda is pretty limited.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

budgetplan1 said:


> I've had the SPS Graphene coating on my car since around May of 2019. The SPS is Alfred/Art d Shine product here in the US.
> 
> It's done quite well so far, dunno if its strictly because if the graphene or not but I'm pretty impressed at this point. I keep my notes on it here: https://budgetplan1.wordpress.com/sps-graphene-coating/
> 
> I'll bet we'll hear a bit more about Graphene later this week when the big SEMA show concludes...


Fantastic write up... sounds like a brilliant product.


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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

atbalfour said:


> Fantastic write up... sounds like a brilliant product.


Only time will tell, still too early to know for sure...hopefully it hangs in there.


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

Alfred Yow is @ Detailing Addicts....he gave us AdS if you have any question he will gladly answer them. He is going to SEMA soon.

John Tht.
https://www.sgcarmart.com/news/events_features.php?AID=3756


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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

A little thread resurrection; giving one of this years graphene coatings a try...Ethos Graphene Matrix.

Will be keeping track of it here: https://budgetplan1.wordpress.com/ethos-graphene-matrix-coating/


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

budgetplan1 said:


> A little thread resurrection; giving one of this years graphene coatings a try...Ethos Graphene Matrix.
> 
> Will be keeping track of it here: https://budgetplan1.wordpress.com/ethos-graphene-matrix-coating/


The coating that seems to perform so well, it speaks for itself...but it's seller can't help but get chirpy with everyone who dares question whether it's real graphene or better than a ceramic! Which ceramic? Mr9h? CSL? CSU??

Fundamentally, it boils down to whether the product (irrespective of what it's made from) is any good and delivers what it promises. The use of reduced graphene oxide and its effect within the coating and whether it actually benefits the product or not - I dunno.

As your brilliant document shows, each ceramic coating has different characteristics. This will be true of the graphene ones too, so for me it will ultimately boil down to the product and it's performance, not what the label says.


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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

roscopervis said:


> The coating that seems to perform so well, it speaks for itself...but it's seller can't help but get chirpy with everyone who dares question whether it's real graphene or better than a ceramic! Which ceramic? Mr9h? CSL? CSU??


I've had it on my shelf for nearly 2 months, was kinda pondering if I was gonna try it or not...the aggressive introduction just kinda put me off of it, to the point of suspicion.

But, what the heck...maybe I was just overly sensitive to the approach...maybe.

Sure was a treat to apply, I'll give it that. Supposed to start raining here tomorrow so looking forward to seeing it in the rain.

Time will tell.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

From what I’ve seen of the coating, it looks good. Easy to apply, great hydrophobics in the short term, decently glossy. Like you, Mr Coats’ approach to discussion has been awkward and put me off the company. It’s experiences like yours that will tell all of us the most really. Hitting it with heavy degreasers time after time on YouTube is only so gratifying.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

As epic a write-up as ever budget!

Look forward to hear how it holds up.


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## neil b (Aug 30, 2006)

You know what will happen just like in the quartz coating world you will get the graphene pro only coating coming along soon with accredited detailers only (probably be some out there already) same old story in the vicious circle of the next best detailing protection product, getting bored with all the hype and seagull crap thats getting flung about regarding graphene .


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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

neil b said:


> You know what will happen just like in the quartz coating world you will get the graphene pro only coating coming along soon with accredited detailers only (probably be some out there already) same old story in the vicious circle of the next best detailing protection product, getting bored with all the hype and seagull crap thats getting flung about regarding graphene .


Ethos already has a 10-year Pro coating avaliable it seems:



> HOW TO BECOME AN ETHOS PRO MEMBER
> 
> This exclusive membership program is for professional detailers to become an Ethos Preferred Dealer. Get access to curated products and wholesale pricing designed specifically for the needs of professional detail shops.
> 
> ...


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## neil b (Aug 30, 2006)

budgetplan1 said:


> Ethos already has a 10-year Pro coating avaliable it seems:


So it has started , let the tide wave begin :lol:.


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

Saw a video from Chicago Auto Pros where Jason the boss compared a graphene coating to Gtechniq CSL.
It's an interesting video comparison and the outcome wasnt what i expected and bear in mind their most popular coating is a Modesto product, so there is no conflict of interest with his test.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Given the potential wonder material that graphene is, I am amazed that a small manufacturer of car coatings (if indeed they do manufacture) has managed to scientifically solve an application problem before very large chemical companies have done. The potential industrial application of such technology is enormous and far outweighs the value from coating cars.

So, I am not suggesting there is not graphene in the product (that bit is easy), but to get the graphene to bond in the way required to benefit from its properties, I am extremely sceptical that this is occurring.


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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

muzzer said:


> Saw a video from Chicago Auto Pros where Jason the boss compared a graphene coating to Gtechniq CSL.
> It's an interesting video comparison and the outcome wasnt what i expected and bear in mind their most popular coating is a Modesto product, so there is no conflict of interest with his test.


There were some inconsistencies in application w regards to layering times that some are pointing to in explanation of graphene product performance. Is it a valid concern, I dunno.


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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

fatdazza said:


> Given the potential wonder material that graphene is, I am amazed that a small manufacturer of car coatings (if indeed they do manufacture) has managed to scientifically solve an application problem before very large chemical companies have done. The potential industrial application of such technology is enormous and far outweighs the value from coating cars.
> 
> So, I am not suggesting there is not graphene in the product (that bit is easy), but to get the graphene to bond in the way required to benefit from its properties, I am extremely sceptical that this is occurring.


It is a bit of a puzzler, perhaps more so in that the blender of said coating blends numerous other graphene coatings


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

budgetplan1 said:


> There were some inconsistencies in application w regards to layering times that some are pointing to in explanation of graphene product performance. Is it a valid concern, I dunno.


Oh by no means is his comparison the be all and end all of this subject but i think his findings are interesting to us on DW from a general perspective.


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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

muzzer said:


> Oh by no means is his comparison the be all and end all of this subject but i think his findings are interesting to us on DW from a general perspective.


Yeah, its always easy to tag subpar performance as 'user error'...kinda an easy way out.

I'll know in a few months re: Ethos...I followed application directions exactly. The keep dry for 48hrs was a bit inconvenient. Time will tell.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

I loved the finish I got with a Graphene wax, but boy did I struggle with application so hard to buff of hazy spots etc, but boy it looked fantastic when finished.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

budgetplan1 said:


> It is a bit of a puzzler, perhaps more so in that the blender of said coating blends numerous other graphene coatings


This is the point that intrigues me. Mr Coats is very insistent in avoiding relating the Ethos Graphene Matrix coating to ceramic coatings, saying that they have found a way to do their product so that it is essentially a new 'matrix' and has the mighty benefits of graphene. However, the blender of that coating says that it, just like the Adams and other graphene coatings they blend, they are all based in what is a ceramic coating, and fortified with graphene.

Now I'm not saying that all the graphene coatings that the blender makes are the same - a brewer can make many different beers depending on the market or tastes they want to attract and I'm sure that the coatings will be different, but they have to all be founded in a ceramic coating as a starting point.

This is fine, especially if it is an improvement, but if there's a disingenuous slant to it, why? The product looks like it performs great, at least in the short term, let it do the talking.


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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

roscopervis said:


> This is the point that intrigues me. Mr Coats is very insistent in avoiding relating the Ethos Graphene Matrix coating to ceramic coatings, saying that they have found a way to do their product so that it is essentially a new 'matrix' and has the mighty benefits of graphene. However, the blender of that coating says that it, just like the Adams and other graphene coatings they blend, they are all based in what is a ceramic coating, and fortified with graphene.
> 
> Now I'm not saying that all the graphene coatings that the blender makes are the same - a brewer can make many different beers depending on the market or tastes they want to attract and I'm sure that the coatings will be different, but they have to all be founded in a ceramic coating as a starting point.
> 
> This is fine, especially if it is an improvement, but if there's a disingenuous slant to it, why? The product looks like it performs great, at least in the short term, let it do the talking.


The interview from Pan the Advertiser w the B & B Blending guy was interesting.

Notable for me was the contention that reduced water spotting is more of a function of the structure of the graphene/ceramic construct (the brick and mortar analogy) as opposed to any thermal/heat reduction advantages. Most mentions of this 'hoped for' characteristic previously relied on the heat-reduction aspect, up to the point of one product stating 'Reduces surface temps' on the bottle.

I kept vacillating between "This guy is a real straight shooter" and "What's his agenda, does he have one considering their involvement in both Adam's and other graphene coatings?".

Perhaps I should just chalk that skepticism up to a "Pan the Advertiser" trickle-down effect 

It did rain here yesterday morning and then the sun came out so the hood of the newly-applied Ethos car has some nice spots that will remain until it gets washed in 7 to 10 days.

During the rain the beading/rolling off of paint was nothing that really stood out as 'better than anything I've ever seen before' but it was solid, water moved nicely when I shot a bit of air at it. Certainly not Gyeon Syncro class movement/beading but decent nonetheless.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Now that's a review...


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

Tim @Ethis suggest they have produced a product in in a carrier I presume that mimic that concept of the single layer structure. 

Nobody is denying graphene as a product entity do not have great attributes, adding it in a base to any product may subjectively improve the performance.

That Chicago Pro Auto test although the application may have been questioned, at Dr Beasley's which was an important question in the video he has been working with Graphene for 6 years plus they make coating, that overall performance will be tested over time. 

Alfred from ArtdeShine has been working with the University to get his product together he produced great product range here around 2012 where you could be an Art de Shine membership card. 

Good luck to all those trying this new technology they all have potential plus as Ethos said, need to perform better than ceramic or SiO2 to become of legitimate use within the industry, interesting stuff. 

You can join the Graphene Forum for the technical stuff of which Alfred sent me a request, good luck guys.


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

Check out Tim from Ethos giving great information plus Dr Beasley's at 22:00 on his take of Graphene as a concept, great knowledge.






John Tht.


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