# What makes a good pro detailer?



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

I say this as this website has a list of "approved detailer". This doesn't seem to prove anything- just that they spent a few quid to gain more customers.


----------



## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

Have a look through the list, find the threads of their work in the Studio section and draw your own conclusions.


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

johnnyguitar said:


> Have a look through the list, find the threads of their work in the Studio section and draw your own conclusions.


I think that is an excellent suggestion- clearly some are waaaaay better than others.


----------



## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

Remember the studio threads are started only by approved DW supporters and not to be confused with general showroom threads.


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

I would trust someone with a unit and approved by swissvax or zaino and the likes.
Clearly the ones to go for.


----------



## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Sony said:


> I say this as this website has a list of "approved detailer". This doesn't seem to prove anything- just that they spent a few quid to gain more customers.


Start detailing for a week go to a "Tuition day" then within weeks you are teaching others your wisdom and skills :thumb:

You should try it :lol:


----------



## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

so if someone doesnt have a unit there no good !! dont think so and if there not approved buy your makes this also makes them a fail !! 

strange way of looking for a detailer if you ask me.


----------



## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

justina3 said:


> so if someone doesnt have a unit there no good !! dont think so and if there not approved buy your makes this also makes them a fail !!
> 
> strange way of looking for a detailer if you ask me.


EXACTLY!!! :thumb:


----------



## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

Grizzle said:


> EXACTLY!!! :thumb:


Nothing stranger than folk. not once was experience mentioned


----------



## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Sony said:


> I say this as this website has a list of "approved detailer". This doesn't seem to prove anything- just that they spent a few quid to gain more customers.


By 'Approved Detailers' it means by the definition of the word that they are authorised by us to advertise and promote themselves on our site. 'Proving' is something else entirely and we don't, nor ever have, made a claim that anyone carrying 'DW supporter' under their name is any kind of mark of quality.

As already said, some research done in the Studio section should give you plenty of information about each of them, plus their own sites of course which will have personal testimonials and also possibly more examples of work.

Hope that clears it up


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

I guess I worded things wrong and it came across wrong. I come back to the fact that very few detailers seem to be genuinely good. [email protected] seems to be the benchmark. Not many match it.


----------



## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

I think PB do a very good job, but there are several detailers posting their work on here (and elsewhere) who I would be happy to let loose on my car.


----------



## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

theres plenty more on here who have made me sit up and go wow over the years


----------



## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Sony said:


> I guess I worded things wrong and it came across wrong. I come back to the fact that very few detailers seem to be genuinely good. [email protected] seems to be the benchmark. Not many match it.


used them all have you?:lol:


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

I have dealt with a couple who have been extremely disappointing. They've been and gone now- I was left gutted with the finish.
Trawling through each approved detailer and making a decision you're happy with is a bit difficult based on a few pictures.
Which is my initial point only a handful are "wow" material and post enough quality pics and details to be able to be quite sure they're going to be good.


----------



## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

Sony said:


> I guess I worded things wrong and it came across wrong. I come back to the fact that very few detailers seem to be genuinely good. [email protected] seems to be the benchmark. Not many match it.


ouch, thats gona p!ss alot of people off!! :lol:

ill look forward to seeing your car booked in and detailed at Pb soon then


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

Deano said:


> used them all have you?:lol:


Based on pics posted here!:thumb:


----------



## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

i can see where you're coming from but thats not really a way to get a grasp of how good a detailer is. if you've spent all day outside in sub zero temp working like a loon cos the customer has to have it done by 6pm, the last thing you want is to be faffing around with fancy camera settings.


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

Deano said:


> i can see where you're coming from but thats not really a way to get a grasp of how good a detailer is. if you've spent all day outside in sub zero temp working like a loon cos the customer has to have it done by 6pm, the last thing you want is to be faffing around with fancy camera settings.


And I can see where you're coming from. But I do reckon good pics are an essential part of advertising. I mean if they're unclear and show very little, on what basis can you make a decision to go ahead with that company?


----------



## David (Apr 6, 2006)

Sony said:


> And I can see where you're coming from. But I do reckon good pics are an essential part of advertising. I mean if they're unclear and show very little, on what basis can you make a decision to go ahead with that company?


why are you bothering so much?

book your car in with PB if thats "the benchmark" standard you want

make sure and hand them a blank cheque though because you pay well for their services.

So apart from having to be a good detailer - you now need to be a good camera man, own a good DSLR and have a dedicated unit to work from.

you're doing well :thumb:


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

I couldn't travel nearly 7 hours each way. As said, I have been sisapointed twice by so called "pros". It is your pride and joy and it would be nice in an ideal world to be able to be sure you've picked the best detailer out there.


----------



## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Clark at PB is very good no doubting that but there are many other Pros which are just as good,Take a look in the studio if you don't believe me.


----------



## Guest (Nov 25, 2010)

A pro detailer is somebody who makes a good job of a detail......


----------



## leigh258 (May 20, 2010)

If you want a good detail then you as the customer will need to put in some effort...

like buying a tv, you dont just go have a look at one tv you look at many and see which one you like best, same can be done with detailers, you look at there work (thestudio) do some research yourself, find out who would benefit you the most and go from there... 

nothing in this world is handed to you and nothing is cheap that is worth having.


----------



## DE 1981 (Aug 17, 2007)

Sorry but this thread is very strange to the least, I saw through pretty pictures and fancy camera angles a good few years back.

There's very few detailers I'd trust my own car with- don't believe the hype mate.


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

leigh258 said:


> If you want a good detail then you as the customer will need to put in some effort...
> 
> like buying a tv, you dont just go have a look at one tv you look at many and see which one you like best, same can be done with detailers, you look at there work (thestudio) do some research yourself, find out who would benefit you the most and go from there...
> 
> nothing in this world is handed to you and nothing is cheap that is worth having.


As said though- not that easy on here imo. Only a few seem very good, and few pics to make your mind up. 
And the detailer can turn up (and has done!) promises the world and by the end of the day it's still a mess.


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

de 1981 said:


> there's very few detailers i'd trust my own car with


exactly!


----------



## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

Pictures mean nothing a slight change of the angle and wow the marks have gone inside lighting is perfect example - inside lighting with the right angle with your camera or pointing a light source at the car and it will make paint look perfect even if it has swirls. 

When i say about lighting and camera please don’t mistake me in saying that all detailers do that. You soon learn what to look for in pictures and trust me there really are some good honest genuine detailers on detailingworld.

Outside shots with direct sunlight are the best way to tell though with British weather that’s hard to get, even with sungun you can make marks disappear, as for an ‘approved by’ manufacturer - I was only speaking to another detailer the other day who had to finish work off for a customer that had their car done by an ‘approved’ person as the car was full of holograms because they did not finish down properly and give said detailer 2 chances to sort then gave up and went elsewhere.

Best is word of mouth or seeing their work in person there are some excellent detailers on this site and some excellent amateurs but with any trade there is the bad as well as good the pictures on here will give you a good idea more so when you know what you are looking for speak to a few detailers honesty is what you a looking for.

Waits for the grief now :thumb:


----------



## Matt. (Aug 26, 2007)

Sony said:


> As said though- not that easy on here imo. Only a few seem very good, and few pics to make your mind up.
> And the detailer can turn up (and has done!) promises the world and by the end of the day it's still a mess.


So on these occasions, you have paid him? Surely if you wasn't happy with the job you should speak up?

Its like going to a bodyshop, if there is paint run, i wouldnt take it away.


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

I thankfully got my money back. Small consolation though when the car is in a worst state than before the work was carried out.


----------



## Matt. (Aug 26, 2007)

Where are you from?


----------



## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

alot of pros viewing this  :lol:

talking about it in your private section huh? :lol: :lol:


----------



## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

sounds to me like your a bit confused tbh , and having been disappointed once you then went and did it again so obviously didnt learn from the first mistake .
clarke is a great detailer , perfect set up with some serious backing which reflects his prices , but that doesnt mean a mobile detailer isnt as good , you can look at pics all day , but to chose you need to meet the fella talk to him and gauge his experience ,


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

No I'm not confused just disappointed in lots of things in this world. You always seem to have to pay good money but never seem to get your money's worth in return. Maybe I'm getting depressed!
I didn't mean to start a whole huge debate- I'm sure deep down most of you fine people know what I mean.


----------



## *MAGIC* (Feb 22, 2007)

Where in the world are you Sony?

Robbie


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

Buxton- spend most of my working days in Sheffield/Leeds.


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

*MAGIC* said:


> Where in the world are you Sony?
> 
> Robbie


Your work is one of the best by the looks of it too!:thumb:


----------



## Dipesh (Oct 12, 2007)

Knowledge & skill.


----------



## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Window shopping fella.
Phone calls, checking out websites, customer testimonials etc.
Also feedback from others on here and so on will help you.


----------



## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

Robbie is excellent in fact gave a customer his number today for some vinyl wrapping


----------



## *MAGIC* (Feb 22, 2007)

Sony said:


> Your work is one of the best by the looks of it too!:thumb:


Thanks mate :thumb:



GoodFella33 said:


> Robbie is excellent in fact gave a customer his number today for some vinyl wrapping


Cheers mate I will look after him :thumb:


----------



## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

Sony, as I said in my email a few weeks ago, you get what you pay for and I'm just sorry youve not had a good experience with another supporter on here. 

There will be Plenty of people on here ready to take your cash but it's up to you to get a feel for how each operates. Some might be more suitable than others. 

Im just sorry you didn't book in with us first time round.


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

JPC said:


> Im just sorry you didn't book in with us first time round.


Believe me so am I!!!!!!!!!!!:thumb:


----------



## Davemm (Mar 9, 2009)

have you done his car already?


----------



## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

Davemm said:


> have you done his car already?


Not me mate!


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

Davemm said:


> have you done his car already?


Believe me had I chosen Miglior I'm 100% sure I wouldn't have started this thread!


----------



## Davemm (Mar 9, 2009)

no i take it that it wasnt you that got it wrong, but the bottom of your post reads as if he has booked it in with you recently? after all the disapointment.


----------



## Ronnie (Nov 15, 2006)

Sorry u had a bad experience but its like everything u have to go with your best instinct. It is usually a lot of money to hand over so its like everything you need to do your homework. At the end of the day would u buy a car just from a picture. The best thing is to select who you want go and see them see some work they have done, or even ask on here has anyone used them to PM u or post their comments, trust me the good ones won't mind as there is nothing to hide websites and testimonials can be fictitious after all they can be made up as the site is being made plus you can delete the bad ones before thy go on line so I would not trust them if you are any way unsure. Most pros on here have been here some time even starting as pros I remember Clark and his business cards and PC before Polished bliss started others like myself started in the hobbyist and have made the transition so the work is there from the very start. if you are unsure then walk away because if you leave your car with someone and you are not entirely satisfied even if the job is faultless then you will not be satisfied. Most of the pros are well known and have a following but the overall standard is pretty high speaking personally I know it was a scary thought posting my work in amonst these guys who I looked up to. Yes there is no formal training needed to become an approved detailer on this site, but you will see consistantly high standards of finish, care and attention. 

And yes there are the cowboys out there but its like every business. If you do your homework you should not get stung.


----------



## R1KK1 BFG (Jun 17, 2009)

shop around make phonecalls etc etc thats your only way of finding a "good reputable detailer"..

Dont believe all you see in the write ups , dont forget they ONLY show YOU what they WANT you to see... The write ups and videos are all purely advertsements/a bit of fun on behalf of the detailer...

Personally the only detailers i would let anywhere near my car is [email protected] autofinesse and [email protected] (but ive got to say that )

Google is your best friend in situations like this ...


----------



## deanchilds (Dec 11, 2007)

Seems to me this thread was started to cause a problem with the other supporter you have had an issue with. 

There is a PM option.


----------



## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

reputation is a good key to choosing a good detailer that much is obvious and all said before in this thread about getting a feel for somebody whom you will entrust to achieve a finish as to which you expect for your money is also key.
But basing quality of photographs on wether someone is anygood or not is useless go to their unit or go and see there work in the flesh before you commit to them to do your detail.
I am a hobbyist and have consistently detailed 1 or 2 cars a week around my full time job for some time now and that is all through word of mouth through a car owners forum i am on and local area and dont get me wrong i do not consider myself up with the pros on here but the point im making is i take photos now and again but not really much but i get work on the back of previous work that therefore makes me complete rubbish judging by your methodology in selection of a detailer well as i cba to take photos ...just dont tell the people that come to me eh.

There are many fantastic detailers on here pro and amature and to suggest nearly all are rubbish is plain rude because they dont meet your criteria of david bailey esque photography.


----------



## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Sony said:


> I say this as this website has a list of "approved detailer". This doesn't seem to prove anything- just that they spent a few quid to gain more customers.


That's pretty much how it is,doesn't mean anyone is better than the rest or any good at all,they've just paid for the opportunity to advertise on DW. Some of the UK's best detailers don't even post on DW or many forums what so ever.


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

deanchilds said:


> Seems to me this thread was started to cause a problem with the other supporter you have had an issue with.
> 
> There is a PM option.


Why is it people always see things that aren't there. I had my problem with said detailer told them and that was that. I did do my homework, etc etc.. Forum are hard going as there always seems a need to justify your actions constantly.
I got it wrong but looking back I wouldn't do anything differently. It prompted me to start this thread though as I was thinking just how hard it is to find someone reputable.


----------



## Refined Detail (Nov 27, 2006)

It is a case of researching as thoroughly as possible, meeting up with the detailer before hand ( I will carry out consultations ahead of any detailing work that is an enhancement or above ) and carry out a test panel where able to - thus showing the client what can be achieved and allowing me to figure a suitable pad and polish combination there and then rather than on the day of the detail.

I'm mobile and deliberately don't have a unit - why? Because I've spoken so many times to my clients whom all tell me that they prefer the convenience of the mobile service I offer, I also cover a large area so it's difficult to "settle down" in one area. I'm Dodo Authorised, but that doesn't mean I exclusively use their products or try to push their products upon the client.

Oh and I don't post a huge amount of photos normally for the exact reason Deano mentioned on page 2 of this thread :thumb:

I like to think the fact that near enough 90% of my customers turn into regulars after the first visit speaks for my work, and most of the new business I get is from word of mouth too


----------



## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Out of curiosity, had this pro been at the trade long?
Reason I ask is that there is many that have websites etc, claim to be great at what they do but seldom rarely produce the goods due to lack of time served, skill and know how, more a bedroom reader that lives on the net and cleans the odd car.


----------



## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

If it botherd you that much you would say who it was and what you paid.no pics of so called bad work.we only have your say so on it what is tarnishing many dw supporters here with the same brush


----------



## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

chrisc said:


> If it botherd you that much you would say who it was and what you paid.no pics of so called bad work.we only have your say so on it what is tarnishing many dw supporters here with the same brush


here here:thumb:


----------



## Detail My Ride (Apr 19, 2006)

Someone who consistently produces quality results, and keeps their customers happy based on the specific service provided

This may vary depending on the service being offered, what the individual detailer offers etc. Its an unfortunate problem that not every client is willing to spend hundreds, if not thousands on ensuring every surface on their vehicle is dirt, contamination and scratch free, so yes many detailers will inevitably will have to send away vehicles with defects remaining, or areas requiring further work. I have to do so myself regularly, as do many other detailers. 

However, this does not necessary make them a bad detailer. Providing they have completed what was specified, to a high standard rather than judging every vehicle based on absolute perfection, then the detailer providing the client is happy etc to me has completed their job.

It is often lost that detailers will claim to have 'detailed' a vehicle, when in fact they have washed, clayed, cleansed and waxed. Someone may go away and see this vehicle at a show, or in Sainsbury's car park and spot swirls, then post on Detailing World, this guy is the worlds worst detailer. 

The weekend warrior, authorised detailer etc tags' which seem to be applied to people are beginning to mean less and less. Almost anyone can become an approved detailer with almost any detailing manufacturer, and although most have training etc in place to try and ensure that the quality of detailers who are advertised as approved by a certain company is high, there is little in the way of control once the fee has been paid, or the banner has been hung in their unit.

Weekend warriors are also a tough one. I know people who on a forum such as Detailing World would be classed as a 'weekend warrior' that I would trust with my car more so than some of the more 'established' detailers in the UK. A company, strong brand image, website etc can make anyone appear the best detailer in the world, however whats behind that can not always be whats put across. 

Personally for me, and my company based on my clients feedback one of the main compliments we receive is that they are able to find a mutual ground where what we promise, is what we give, always. If this mutuality is broken then we will aim to fix it. This applies to all aspects, from the first email or phone call you send to us, or handing over the vehicle back to the client after completing a detail. 

I don't like to think of detailing as a competition, I believe that if you are providing a quality service, clients will return, and your reputation will grow. If this is the case, other detailers shouldn't affect your work, which eliminates the need for any competition, or ranking of detailers.

By no means the truth, but just my thoughts.


----------



## Exclusive Car Care (Jan 14, 2007)

Gaz W said:


> Someone who consistently produces quality results, and keeps their customers happy based on the specific service provided
> 
> This may vary depending on the service being offered, what the individual detailer offers etc. Its an unfortunate problem that not every client is willing to spend hundreds, if not thousands on ensuring every surface on their vehicle is dirt, contamination and scratch free, so yes many detailers will inevitably will have to send away vehicles with defects remaining, or areas requiring further work. I have to do so myself regularly, as do many other detailers.
> 
> ...


great post there young man:thumb:


----------



## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

Nail on the head sir :thumb:


----------



## Deanvtec (Mar 3, 2008)

Experience is what makes a great detailer!


----------



## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Gaz W said:


> Someone who consistently produces quality results, and keeps their customers happy based on the specific service provided
> 
> This may vary depending on the service being offered, what the individual detailer offers etc. Its an unfortunate problem that not every client is willing to spend hundreds, if not thousands on ensuring every surface on their vehicle is dirt, contamination and scratch free, so yes many detailers will inevitably will have to send away vehicles with defects remaining, or areas requiring further work. I have to do so myself regularly, as do many other detailers.
> 
> ...


Absolutely spot on Gaz, a lot of different aspects to be taken into account.


----------



## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Sony said:


> I say this as this website has a list of "approved detailer". This doesn't seem to prove anything- just that they spent a few quid to gain more customers.


This website has a list of DW supporters ! Not* approved* detailers......

Taken from the thread

"Ok Listed below are the DW Supporters.

Do You Need your Car Detailing? Well one of the Supporters may be able to help you

Well check out their work and recommendations from members within the Studio section for a good idea of the work these chaps can achieve and if one of them seems to fit your critera their website are listed below as well

The supporters vary from full time detailers / valeters to enthusiasts and cover country wide but have put in the region that the cover more frequently. Please make sure you check their websites and work out.

DW hold no responsibility for any work carried out by the supporters and we urge you to investigate their work by means of their website, studio details and investigate feedback where applicable

Insurance and public liability is upto said companies and not down to DW again please make sure you check out the above companies carefully and that you are fully happy with the service they provide "


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

WHIZZER said:


> This website has a list of DW supporters ! Not* approved* detailers......
> 
> Taken from the thread
> 
> ...


Well arguably this is pointless. Especially for newbies. I mean imagine looking at the thread you mention as a newbie. It really does indicate these chaps should be 100% up to the job, but just check out their website too see if you're happy. If you're not, we're not responsible, I do think DW should offer a bit of an ebay system where detailers could get genuine feedback. If they're good (which seemingly most of them are) there should be no problems.
I think it's ok for people who live on here and seem to think it's easy to fish out the not so good detailers out there but overall I find it confusing.
A lot of trades out there require some "name" before you think you could go ahead with them.
Gas work- is gas safe? Mechanics are part of the Good garage scheme etc...
Would be a good idea imo but I'm sure I'll get slated for something I've said!


----------



## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

some very good replies on here :thumb: . 

i`m not a pro and do the odd mates cars around my day job . all i aim for is perfection as i got a passion for detailing . 
only thing i hate is when someone says i don`t know what i`m doing when they havn`t seen what i can do . i still have a few things to learn but i know that will all come in time . every car i`ve done this year the owners have been smiling from ear to ear and thats all that matters to me . 

oh yeah and i might aswell take this opertunity to thank all those who have given me advice in the past . you know who you are so thankyou guys . only downside is i wish my pockets were deeper :lol:


----------



## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Sony said:


> Well arguably this is pointless. Especially for newbies. I mean imagine looking at the thread you mention as a newbie. It really does indicate these chaps should be 100% up to the job, but just check out their website too see if you're happy. If you're not, we're not responsible, I do think DW should offer a bit of an ebay system where detailers could get genuine feedback. If they're good (which seemingly most of them are) there should be no problems.
> I think it's ok for people who live on here and seem to think it's easy to fish out the not so good detailers out there but overall I find it confusing.
> A lot of trades out there require some "name" before you think you could go ahead with them.
> Gas work- is gas safe? Mechanics are part of the Good garage scheme etc...
> Would be a good idea imo but I'm sure I'll get slated for something I've said!


I agree with the governing body and it is something that folk have looked into for some length of time.
There are so many key factors to consider again though.
If something was set up, who is qualified as an instructor?
Stopped at the first hurdle from that point of view.
Im sure anyone could set up a governing body but more than likely it would be run by some chump that knows squat about the automotive industry in general, thats the typical way round things now a days isnt it?
If you delved right far into the industry then you have to cover knowledge of product, awareness of hazzards of product, how to use them in a orrect and safe manner even down to being water concious and waste water regulations.
Insurances, what types to have ensuring correct cover for user and client, blah blah blah.
It is a serious trade with many serious folk carrying the work out and to a high standard but judgement on having a unit, being and authorised detailer etc doesnt mean anything other than thats the avenue such user has chosen to go down and has been recognised as good at what they do or has paid for the privelage.
I can see where your coming from for future reference to anyone looking for a professional and do understand that youve had a bad experience and want to voice it but surely, without letting such tradesman finish his job, your car would naturally look bad anyway?


----------



## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Sony said:


> Well arguably this is pointless. Especially for newbies. I mean imagine looking at the thread you mention as a newbie. It really does indicate these chaps should be 100% up to the job, but just check out their website too see if you're happy. If you're not, we're not responsible, I do think DW should offer a bit of an ebay system where detailers could get genuine feedback. If they're good (which seemingly most of them are) there should be no problems.
> I think it's ok for people who live on here and seem to think it's easy to fish out the not so good detailers out there but overall I find it confusing.
> A lot of trades out there require some "name" before you think you could go ahead with them.
> Gas work- is gas safe? Mechanics are part of the Good garage scheme etc...
> Would be a good idea imo but I'm sure I'll get slated for something I've said!


I think their threads offer feedback TBH ! - If as stated you can check out their work within the Studio section to see if their work is up to YOUR standard. You can then look at testimonials on their website and check out if they have the correct liability insurances etc. Hence why that thread suggests that you investigate their work as you would do for any jobs that are carried out for said person.

Gas work - is Gas safe - Doesnt mean they are tidy and do a fantastic job though ! Just because they have completed a said course ....

There is not a regulated body for valeters or detailers within the UK if there was I would think the majority of DW supporters would be part of this

As far as responsibility is concerned without checking every person work how can "DW" endorse any detailer - Also what deems a Detailer ? What deems correct work ? People work in different ways , Who are DW to tell a detailer his work is wrong ? What qualifications do you need to judge somebodies work ? - What you deem to be a good job I might think is poor ? Hence the statement which protects the forum and urges the member to investigate properly before entering into an agreement with any supporter

"DW hold no responsibility for any work carried out by the supporters and we urge you to investigate their work by means of their website, studio details and investigate feedback where applicable

Insurance and public liability is upto said companies and not down to DW again please make sure you check out the above companies carefully and that you are fully happy with the service they provide"


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

I agree with you both- and do realise it's difficult to implement. Would be good though!


----------



## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Scenario, gas plumber comes in, serious attitude, says the house is warm and fapps off.
No hot water, no heating, the house was warm due to an oil burning radiator and tumble dryer on the go.
My dissabled OAP mother lives with us, is this right?
They are corgi registered and have a client base of thousands and some very large company clienst aswell.
There is good and bad in any trade.


----------



## -Ashley- (Nov 19, 2010)

Corgi registration is obsolete now, it's Gas Safe Registration :thumb:

As for the original point of this thread. I have seen work done by a so-called professional detailer is an authorised detailer (won't mention any company names). A guy who lives in a huge Priory (where I clean the windows) had his R-8 FULLY detailed, so no excuses that they had to cut corners and leave bits out, he paid them plenty. They had it for two days. 

When he got it back there were still swirl marks, the arches were filthy, the wheels hadn't been sealed etc etc . . . So I told him I was handy with a polisher and had lots of car cleaning / detailing equipment and that I would show him what a real detail looked like next time it needed doing. 

So sure enough 5 months later I went back armed with my humble collection of products and produced a result ten times better for half the price, he was amazed!!!

So i'm sorry i'm not approved by Dodo Juice, Zaino, Zymol, Swissvax or anyone else, and i'm sorry I don't rent a unit. But I did a much better job than someone who does have a unit and is approved by a well known company. Because I take enormous pride in my work whatever i'm doing, I never drag a job out and I never leave something until I have done absolutely everything I can.

So there is your theory up the swanny. Rant over!!!!

Ashley :thumb:


----------



## Incredible Detail (Sep 26, 2007)

Can you clarify what "*FULLY detailed*" means?


----------



## -Ashley- (Nov 19, 2010)

Oh sorry. I think what was supposed to be included was:

Pre wash
2bm wash
Clay
2bm wash again
Wheels cleaned and sealed
Tyres cleaned and dressed
Arches cleaned and dressed
Full machine correction
Pre-wax cleanser
2 coats of sealant
2 coats of wax
All shuts, boot etc cleaned, polished and waxed by machine
Engine bay steam clean (I must admit they did a good job on this)
Full interior clean and protection

That's what I remember off the top of my head, it was a while back. All I meant by fully detailed (as I know there are ore steps that could be added) was that there was certainly enough steps, time and cost involved to get rid of the swirl marks and holograms that he left behind!!! They didn't take me that long to get out and I used a DA!!!!!

Ashley


----------



## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Sony said:


> It prompted me to start this thread though as I was thinking *just how hard it is to find someone reputable.*


I am trying to remain impartial here, as I have to, but I'm afraid I have to take issue with that statement.

The number of cases (like this you've brought up) that we see on here are _very, very_ few and far between, so I'd strongly argue that no, it's not hard to find someone reputable as the overwhelming majority of customers who the pros work for are more than pleased with the service they get.

Now of course there's the counter argument that says we never get to see the unfavourable reviews only the good ones, but even though I genuinely believe there aren't many disgruntled customers about when it comes to the supporters we have on DW, if there were, given the magnitude and scope of this site and its members, the truth would out soon enough and anyone consistantly churning out substandard work would be 'outed' on here very quickly, and this simply hasn't happened despite the majority of our pros being in the industry for many years and members on here since day one of DW.

This might read like I'm being overly defensive of our supporters, but I assure it's not - what I say is what I genuinely believe and what I know in my position.

I'd never dream of suggesting that any of our pros have never had a dissatisfied client, but at the same time I think some of the things you've said during the course of this topic have been unfair and unjustified, given that they're based on this one individual case and your version of events.


----------



## -Ashley- (Nov 19, 2010)

Very diplomatically put Viper :thumb:


----------



## tim (May 2, 2006)

Viper said:


> Now of course there's the counter argument that says we never get to see the unfavourable reviews only the good ones, but even though I genuinely believe there aren't many disgruntled customers about when it comes to the supporters we have on DW, if there were, given the magnitude and scope of this site and its members, *the truth would out soon enough and anyone consistantly churning out substandard work would be 'outed' on here very quickly,* and this simply hasn't happened despite the majority of our pros being in the industry for many years and members on here since day one of DW.


So does this mean DW is open to letting people air facts about other detailers who one might believe bring not only DW but detailing as a whole into disrepute?

This is a serious question. I think it is a little naive just Say what you just have and not be open to listening to the otherside of the debate.


----------



## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Of course it is, and no it's not naive at all because I didn't say we wouldn't be open to it - I said; it rarely, if ever, happens on here, and that there is a reason for that.

And I have heard the other side of this particular case, but it's not my place to be putting that forward, it's down to the other party involved here to decide if they want to.

Oh, and nobody would be bringing DW into disrepute by carrying out substandard work as, again - DW is not a governing body and we don't claim to be, we're simply an advertising platform in this scenario. If a 'bad' detailer signs up and gains a string of dissatisfied customers, then I'm sure those customers, if they're members on here, will post about it.

Anyway, I'm not saying anything more on the matter.


----------



## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

tim said:


> So does this mean DW is open to letting people air facts about other detailers who one might believe bring not only DW but detailing as a whole into disrepute?
> 
> This is a serious question. I think it is a little naive just Say what you just have and not be open to listening to the otherside of the debate.


If said in the correct manner - We do have the other side of the story in this case -so perhaps have a more valued view but Tim just picking up on this - "DW" also has to protect the forum / members and related Libel cases that could be posed against the forum ( Not all members realise this and can open themselves and the forum up to legal proceedings) - Legal and protection policy has gone mad - And as a Forum with have to abide but certain rulings that can lead to threads or post "HAVING" to be removed to protect the forum from lawsuits - We have been there in the past and its not somewhere hopefull we will steer towards again.


----------



## karl_liverpool (Sep 25, 2008)

at the end of the day us supporter paying to advertise on here is no reflection on the forum. any work carried out by one of us stands on our own reputations not on dw's rep. its wrong to bring the forum name in when something has gone wrong. 
would you blame google for putting you onto a shopping site you bought something dodgy off? no you would'nt. its the same in this case. from my perspective it is simply a case of crossed wires and impatience that has caused this situation. 

there are always two sides to every story, the whole situation should have been discussed with the detailer and not posted in open forum unless no resolution could be found. then a basic review is all that is needed not an attempt at a witch hunt. 

if any one of my clients walked in half way through a job they would get a shock especially when wet sanding is involved. like everything it gets worse before it gets better. detailing and correction is exactly the same. the end result pics show it complete. even process pics we will clean up a bit to improve the look of the image. it wouldnt look very good if we all showed pics of cars covered in polish dust and spatter. 

in my opinion it is best to watch someone at work for a short time to base your decision on.


----------



## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

-Ashley- said:


> As for the original point of this thread. I have seen work done by a so-called professional detailer is an authorised detailer (won't mention any company names). A guy who lives in a huge Priory (where I clean the windows) had his R-8 FULLY detailed, so no excuses that they had to cut corners and leave bits out, he paid them plenty. They had it for two days.
> 
> When he got it back there were still swirl marks, the arches were filthy, the wheels hadn't been sealed etc etc . . . So I told him I was handy with a polisher and had lots of car cleaning / detailing equipment and that I would show him what a real detail looked like next time it needed doing.
> 
> ...


Ashley understand what you are saying but what you say is a good job , what the customer says is a good job and what I say is a good job are three totally different things - You also have to factor in other things like costs

What did the customer agree to be done ? Did the customer investigate fully what would be included? Did he ask for previous customers comments or recommedations ? What cost ? Did the cost get negotiated ? and so on

I dont think anybody is saying that you have to be approved by anybody to be able to achieve a good standard of work - I have seen lots of non pro produce great work - A governing body to a certain extent just means you tick certain boxes that says you have reached a level of competence But lets add a different slant on this - what would have happened if you had burnt through the clear coat on the R8 - Did you have the relevant insurance in place to have the car resprayed etc ?


----------



## -Ashley- (Nov 19, 2010)

Yes I actually do have full public liability insurance up £5,000,000. It was originally taken out for my window cleaning business but I have rang them up and told them I do detailing too and they have added that to the policy. So I am fully covered if I burn through anyone's clearcoat.

I don't know the full details of what was agreed, how much research he did on the company etc etc . . . All i'm saying is that I (who many will view as an amateur) produced a much better end result, for less money and in less time, than an approved detailer with his swanky unit. I do know that the "detailer" in question charged £550, I know this as I promised to do it for half and I charged £225.

I know of other pro detailers that are amazing and I can only aspire to being as good as them, so i'm not slagging anyone off. I would never do that on a public forum to anyone, especially mentioning company names etc etc . . . I'm just saying that you can't always rely on someone because they look professional.

And I know different people have different opinions on what is classed as a "good" job. But i'm also sure that everyone will agree that leaving swirl marks and holograms behind is not a "good" job by anyone's standards?

And I was responding to a very early comment made by the creater of the thread, that he would look for someone with a unit and that is swissvax recognised or recognised by someone.


----------



## karl_liverpool (Sep 25, 2008)

-Ashley- said:


> Yes I actually do have full *public liability insurance* up £5,000,000. It was originally taken out for my window cleaning business but I have rang them up and told them I do detailing too and they have added that to the policy. So I am fully covered if I burn through anyone's clearcoat.


i think you should look very closely at your policy fella. pli only covers accident or injury t.o members of the public (slips trips etc.)
for your detailing to be cover under liability your policy should cover product liability and goods worked upon.

pli wont cover either of these area's


----------



## -Ashley- (Nov 19, 2010)

Well my policy does cover damage to property . possessions. As I actually damaged someone's car while window cleaning and it was fully covered. I also cleaned the windows at Worcester Royal Hospital and they vetted my policy and made sure it covered building / possesions damage.

I think I have just used the wrong wording when I said public liability. But I definitely know i'm fully insured if I damage what i'm working on. Be it glass, window frames, cars, or whether I damage something i'm not working on while at work.

Thanks for your concern though :thumb:


----------



## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

-Ashley- said:


> Yes I actually do have full public liability insurance up £5,000,000. It was originally taken out for my window cleaning business but I have rang them up and told them I do detailing too and they have added that to the policy. So I am fully covered if I burn through anyone's clearcoat.
> 
> I don't know the full details of what was agreed, how much research he did on the company etc etc . . . All i'm saying is that I (who many will view as an amateur) produced a much better end result, for less money and in less time, than an approved detailer with his swanky unit. I do know that the "detailer" in question charged £550, I know this as I promised to do it for half and I charged £225.
> 
> ...


Ashely my comments are not aimed at you directly but to bring more debate to this thread.

I agree somebody can look professional but not necessarily back that up.

I have friends that take their cars to what would be deemed as a professional car cleaner Valete / detailer whatever somebody wants to call them - I would not let them touch , let alone wash it with a sponge /washmitt and polisher .

A lot of people dont know what swirls and holograms are - they look at their car and as long as it looks cleaner than when it went in then they are happy- obviously I can spot things that I would not be happy with but to Joe public the jobs a good un

So in essence I agree with what you are saying a unit, a brand dont make the finished article what counts to me anyway would be recommendation by somebody that knows or I trust Or a investigation and research before I would part with my hard earned cash :thumb:


----------



## -Ashley- (Nov 19, 2010)

I know your comments aren't aimed at me WHIZZER .

It just annoys me that people might choose someone else over me to work on their cars because they are approved and have a unit, and I know people think like this, I have had a potential customer tell me that's why he wouldnt be using me. That's his choice.

I have an extensive portfolio of cars worked on and about 15 previous customers that are willing to be references / recommendations. But Joe Public seems to see a unit as ore important. That's the only point i'm making .

Ashley

P.S I would never do any work on anyone's car / house / whatever unless I was fully insured, it's just not worth the risk.


----------



## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

want it doing right, do it yourself i say :lol:


----------



## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

Becoming a professional detailer takes knowledge of the materials used; experience to both see defects and using methods that succeed in removing them, plus talent and skill in using the correct tools; and most importantly an "attention to detail" As well as keeping current with the developments in automotive products, trends demographic, and financial influences that impact auto detailing.

*Selecting a Professional Detailer*

If you are considering having someone detail your car, I would urge you to use the same judgement you would in any other area of your car's maintenance, and treat with suspicion anybody offering a really low price. It may well be in your best interest to talk to a detailer who has proven track record of satisfied customers as well as the relevant insurances, and someone offering a lower quote might not.

Request a reputable detailer's name (s) on one of the detailing forums. Once you've selected a detailer be specific about what services you require (i.e. full vehicle detail, exterior paint renovation, interior detailing, etc) It requires an exchange of information between the consumer and the shop so that the extent of each detail and the estimated cost, a vehicle drop-off and collection time are clearly established before work commences.

A successful outcome will rely on good communication between you and the chosen professional. You want someone that makes you feel at ease with the process, someone that you can easily trust. They should be able to answer your questions in simple easy to understand terms, not techno speak, so that you understand what needs to be done, and the benefits. Listen to their suggestions. The more that things can be explained and agreed upon, the more at ease that they can make you feel, and the more confident that you can be in their ability to meet or exceed your expectations.

An accurate estimate can only be given when the professional is able to see the vehicle and ascertain your expectations, a phone-quote can only be a ball-park figure. Many professionals will need 10+ hours of work to transform your vehicle back to like-new condition

*Some things you may want to consider *

•	Look for a courteous staff willing to answer all of your questions. 
•	Look for policies regarding estimates, labour rates or pricing, guarantees, acceptable methods of payment, etc.
•	A Professional Detailer should have been in (full-time) business for at least one year
•	Should have business licensed and be state registered
•	Ensure they have adequate insurance cover (including Public Liability) and that they are a registered business
•	Obtain (telephone number) references from three recent clients and check them
•	How long they have been in business
•	Check with the local Better Business Bureau 
•	Ask them where they received their training and what products they use. 
•	Ask the prospective detailer for photographs of vehicles they have done recently (most detailers have a portfolio) or they may have photos posted on detailing forums of their work on similar models
•	Ask them their detailing 'steps' this will indicate exactly what you are paying for
•	Ask them what detailing products they use (known brand names are preferable)
•	Do they offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee?
•	Discuss a price and if satisfied set-up an appointment
•	If they quote a very low price it could reflect the quality of service offered.


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

It doesn't matter who the detailer was- hell treat the topic as if I hadn't dealt with a pro detailer. I reitarate that there is a jungle out there, for everything we buy, and it's always a tough choice making a decision.
Paying a pro is a lot of money- and there is very little comeback if it all goes wrong. I don't see why people take the issue so seriously. Had I raised this topic about a dodgy gas man, we wouldn't be on page 9.


----------



## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

^^ the cost is all relative, yes its alot to "clean your car" but when you take in to consideration the amount of time and labor put in its not really a high priced service.

There is comeback with good companies, if a client was not happy with a job we had done we would do all we can to make sure they are happy, but its also about managing peoples expectations.

But lets face it you had the chance to go to polished bliss and have Clark detail your car if you wanted to (as in your eyes hes top of the game (and id agree hes there or there abouts ) but for one reason or another you never did? now after a bad experience your going for someone else once again? so why not be done with it and take your car to Polished Bliss and have it done right once, after all once you have paid for this second detail your going to have forked out the same amount as if you went there in the first place.

The reason "_why people take the issue so seriously_" is because to some of us this is our lively hood that we have put alot of time, effort, money and graft in to, then to have someone narrow mindedly tar all "detailers" with the same brush quite rightly pi$$es a few people off.



-Ashley- said:


> Corgi registration is obsolete now, it's Gas Safe Registration :thumb:
> 
> As for the original point of this thread. I have seen work done by a so-called professional detailer is an authorised detailer (won't mention any company names). A guy who lives in a huge Priory (where I clean the windows) had his R-8 FULLY detailed, so no excuses that they had to cut corners and leave bits out, he paid them plenty. They had it for two days.
> 
> ...


Right this comment is not aimed only at you but at all debating having a unit or not.

A unit for us as a company is a 100% necessity, as it ensures we can turn out the same quality of work time and time over, all year around, this for a full time business with employes is very important, not only to maintain our standards of work but also to maintain turn over all seasons.

We operate both a unit and a mobile service, but we dont touch any form of correction work out doors now days, a correction for us is perfection or as close as the car we are working on can get, this takes alot of time (on average 36hours) we cant do this on someones driveway.

If you want to spend 2 days working for 250 great, good beer money for you, but if you was running it as a full time business you would need to be charing more to make it all add up end of the month.


----------



## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

Sony said:


> It doesn't matter who the detailer was- hell treat the topic as if I hadn't dealt with a pro detailer. I reitarate that there is a jungle out there, for everything we buy, and it's always a tough choice making a decision.
> Paying a pro is a lot of money- and there is very little comeback if it all goes wrong. I don't see why people take the issue so seriously. Had I raised this topic about a dodgy gas man, we wouldn't be on page 9.


people are probably gettin touchy about it i would imagine as you have questioned the validity of the majority of detailers skills in general.........................on a detailing forum ,go figure:lol::lol:


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

robinho said:


> people are probably gettin touchy about it i would imagine as you have questioned the validity of the majority of detailers skills in general.........................on a detailing forum ,go figure:lol::lol:


I've had a smallish issue with 1 detailer. I'm hardly questionnionning the skills of detailers on here. I see nothing wrong with having a decent out in the open discussion about what I felt needed to be discussed. :thumb:


----------



## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

Sony said:


> I've had a smallish issue with 1 detailer. I'm hardly questionnionning the skills of detailers on here. I see nothing wrong with having a decent out in the open discussion about what I felt needed to be discussed. :thumb:


no i dont see anything wrong in open discussion but the subject matter in question is bound to cause issue on this forum when it originally seemed you were questioning detailers on here via the approved status sony.


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

robinho said:


> no i dont see anything wrong in open discussion but the subject matter in question is bound to cause issue on this forum when it originally seemed you were questioning detailers on here via the approved status sony.


Fair enough


----------



## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Simple answer to the original question.

If I want food I go to McD's and spend £3 on a poorly made burger & fries. If I want to blow a weeks' wages I go to The Fat Duck. Likewise if want a quick & cheap car wash I go to the hand wash & if I want to blow a weeks' wages I pay a trusted professional detailer. 

Research the web and you'll find many testimonials which will assist you in finding the "right" person even if they don't post their work themselves.

DW could trial a proper governing body if they chose IMO as they have the presence and reputation to make it work not to mention the people and contacts.

Didn't need 10 pages really!


----------



## tim (May 2, 2006)

Andy is right in what he is saying that Detailing needs governing body. But DW could never be it. If a Trade or Detailing Association or Guild was set up it would have to be entirely independent of any already existing sites or it would be compromised from day one and therefore pointless IMO.

I think there is a need for an Independant 'Guild of Professional Detailers' but the hardest question is who do you trust to run it? I certainly wouldn't trust many people at all.


----------



## Brabus Doc (May 28, 2008)

Me personally, I would trust most (if not all the pro's on here) with my car, the comments and the pictures in the studio section say it all for me.

I would even be very happy to pay many of the amateur detailers on here to work on my car :thumb:


----------



## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

tim said:


> Andy is right in what he is saying that Detailing needs governing body. *But DW could never be it*. If a Trade or Detailing Association or Guild was set up it would have to be entirely independent of any already existing sites or it would be compromised from day one and therefore pointless IMO.
> 
> I think there is a need for an Independant 'Guild of Professional Detailers' but the hardest question is who do you trust to run it? I certainly wouldn't trust many people at all.


There is but the question is why couldnt DW be it or part of?
You could be, I could be, it doesnt really matter so long as that governing body isnt stuck up there own rear end and makes rules for rules that cause uneccesary issues within the industry.


----------



## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

If it happened it would be more for the whole "car cleaning" industry rather than just detailers, as its too small a market to be worth doing.


----------



## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

And it definately needs something sorting out sooner rather than later.
Might even get a few of these car washes shut down and sort out other issues ( which I wont go into ) at the same time.


----------



## tim (May 2, 2006)

If you have read my post you'd see.. but I'll try to explain it again.

DW could never be it because it has been running for quite a few years now and generates a substantial amount of revenue in advertising and commercial posting privileges. So even with all the best will in the world IMO it is compromised and could never be truly independent.

What is needed for it be worth anything. Is a truly independent trade body which has nothing to lose by not allowing someone to join it because they don't make the cut. Not just pay £150 and you're now a 'Professional'..


----------



## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

tim said:


> If you have read my post you'd see.. but I'll try to explain it again.
> 
> DW could never be it because it has been running for quite a few years now and generates a substantial amount of revenue in advertising and commercial posting privileges. So even with all the best will in the world IMO it is compromised and could never be truly independent.
> 
> What is needed for it be worth anything. Is a truly independent trade body which has nothing to lose by not allowing someone to join it because they don't make the cut. Not just pay £150 and you're now a 'Professional'..


TBH I disagree with the above -DW has the right contacts with most of the major companies in the UK which could form a governing body i.e Brininging specialist like Autoglym / Autosmart and other manufactuers - Whether DW was part of that Body as well thats a different question - Thats why we choose to have all brands on DW not one particular one - The major stumbling blocks imo are who has the right knowledge to actually do tests etc - and Who has the time to set a body like this up ? and Also the money to implement the scheme

But will it solve the issue ???? Im not sure - Governing bodies - you attend a course to get your certificate of standard - but does that mean you continue to apply that standard ? You are just fulfilling the basic tick list that a body sets out - What about those that choose not to be part of the body does it mean their work is substandard ?

Lets look at plumbers - I know a lot of very good plumbers that are not gas safe registered - they wont become one due to various reasons - can they plumb to a high standard yes - is their work good -yes - the only thing they cant do is sign off Gas installed work to which they call somebody they trust to do it and that has the right certificates .

I had this conversation about cricket the other day - My sons coach is an Ex Pro cricketer and IMO is probably the best coach he has had to date - My Son has come on as an individual , learnt the game to a higher standard , had trials for 2 counties which he made , trials for the emerging players programme and met many a pro whilst training at Lords and the like - this coach does not have any ECB qualifications at all - nothing - BUT I could go on a course get a level 1 coaches badge in 4 weeks and then a level 2 badge 6 weeks after this ( Oh which i know 2 people that have done this) and be a higher qualified coach than him as i can learn a book and apply this but do i know more about it than him - Simple NO - would i be a better coach - In a lot of peoples eyes yes as i hold the piece of paper but in essence i would not be a patch on him .......

We had people attended a BT course on installation of mobile phones a long time ago - they obtained city and guilds certificates - the course had to be completed by 2 people - We had a office worker go with a mechanic - they both passed as they had to do the course together and fit a phone together - they both now hold City and guilds certs and are qualified to fit phones - My quesions is would i let the office manager fit a mobile phone in my car - Hell NO he even admits the mechanic did nearly all the work but the piece of paper he holds says he can !! Just another example for you.

IMO A governing body might help for detailing but it has flaws which Im not sure a governing body would be able to iron out - Yes it might help stop some of the fly by nights though .

Oh and im not sure where it says pay £150 and you a professional .........


----------



## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Bill, I think the topic's getting confused between this forum's supporter scheme and a trade association/body.

I've heard all the old tales about how proper tradesmen don't feel that they need to be registered - frankly an unregistered sparks or gas fitter doesn't get through my front door, irrespective of how good they claim to be. Gives me some comfort that they've made an effort to attain registered status and with anything which could potentially blow up my house that's sort of important.

As far as paying £150 to this forum's concerned, that's a decision people make without pressure. Doesn't make them professional but does give them a cheap advertising platform from where I'm sat. Has this created a system where visitors might think that all supporters are experienced pro detailers? Possibly. Should DW change its position? None of my business frankly - your forum, your decision. That said mate, you've earned a significant income over the last 5 years as a forum and that should mean that you take a responsible position, not do everything you can to distance yourselves from work undertaken by supporters. IMVHO of course but DW should at least work to protect the industry's image if they're taking revenue from it.

James nailed it when he said that a governing body/trade association would have to look at all aspects of the industry. If you made membership voluntary (i.e. if you choose not to it makes no odds whatsoever but it shows a level of commitment) then you would attract businesses who want to be part of a professional trade body and abide by its regulations - this then gives customers the reassurance that anyone who is a member takes a positive approach to the proper running of their business - from COSHH to insurance to employment practices to whatever else.

Would it solve the OP's issue? No idea. Would it prevent cowboys? Maybe not but if someone independent were in a position to be all over you like a rash if you behaved without integrity then perhaps it could answer some of the issues. 

I'm not sure that it will happen personally - it's a good idea in principle but in practice???


----------



## slrestoration (Nov 11, 2009)

Well written piece with some good points Andy


----------



## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

AndyC said:


> Bill, I think the topic's getting confused between this forum's supporter scheme and a trade association/body.
> 
> I've heard all the old tales about how proper tradesmen don't feel that they need to be registered - frankly an unregistered sparks or gas fitter doesn't get through my front door, irrespective of how good they claim to be. Gives me some comfort that they've made an effort to attain registered status and with anything which could potentially blow up my house that's sort of important.
> 
> ...


Andy, Im merely picking up on points that have been raised within the thread with regards the supporters scheme and /or the trade body . Also I am unsure where It has been said that DW is distancing itself from a governing body -

Therefore I dont think DW is distancing itself from the work undercarried by the supporters *Far from it *! 
With regards to advertising Is DW any different to say EVO /Autocar/ Where anybody can place an ad ?We offer a platform for people to advertise on . Does EVO/Autocar check criteria before the advert is placed ? Im sure i read about a very high profile sportscar rental firm with took a membership scheme had the backing of high profile personalities that went to the wall taking several hundred thousand pounds of deposits with them - I for one investigate and research most things before taken the plunge and using a tradesman etc .

We looked a being part of a Governing body earlier this year ,they were planning on setting up body to oversee the detailing industry and DW was intending to become some sort of partner in it.

They got as far as meetings with the DTi just before it all went cold - And we have not heard from them since! They were a credible company but it seems they got cold feet so to say

The plan was to get as many of the supporters who wanted to be involved in on the ground floor as advisers for the various assessment stages and such. Kind of like a 'Gas Safe' for Detailing/ Valeting business's

If this is to ever get carried out properly hopefully it is something DW can be part of and work with.

The upshot of it would be that the 'cowboys' out there who set up without the necessary experience, insurance etc. clearly wouldn't attain the membership of such a scheme and over time, when established and widely publicised (where DW would have come in probably), the 'badge' or 'logo' of it would be something prospective clients would see as mandatory before they even picked up the phone to make a booking.

I do think the detailing/valeting industry does need a governing body of sorts and we will continue to look into it but like you say would th[s solve the OP topic - Who knows !


----------



## Refined Detail (Nov 27, 2006)

tim said:


> Not just pay £150 and you're now a 'Professional'..


Nobody ever said that's the case, it's just a common misconception of many people on here. If that's what people choose to see it as, that's their issue, not DW's! Paying the £150 allows you to become a financial supporter of DW which as a result gives you a few posting privileges over non paying members, yes these do benefit businesses more so than joe public, but it's still not making them a professional!


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

Refined Detail said:


> Nobody ever said that's the case, it's just a common misconception of many people on here. If that's what people choose to see it as, that's their issue, not DW's! Paying the £150 allows you to become a financial supporter of DW which as a result gives you a few posting privileges over non paying members, yes these do benefit businesses more so than joe public, but it's still not making them a professional!


True- but somehow you perceive the few who are then allowed to post their work in the studios as pros. All are good,it seems- but some are much better than others. And can charge the same price. And I then come back to my same point: A few pics cannot prove how good they are. Someone with a crap camera might be an excellent detailer but the pics do not do their work justice.
It's just too hard to see what's what. Plus the point made about people recommending them- what if they've just started? A few have, how are they going to get the work?


----------



## Guest (Nov 27, 2010)

Sony said:


> True- but somehow you perceive the few who are then allowed to post their work in the studios as pros. All are good,it seems- but some are much better than others. And can charge the same price. And I then come back to my same point: A few pics cannot prove how good they are. Someone with a crap camera might be an excellent detailer but the pics do not do their work justice.
> It's just too hard to see what's what. Plus the point made about people recommending them- what if they've just started? A few have, how are they going to get the work?


Tell me.....what if somebody takes no pictures of their work at all,does that make them a bad detailer?


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

aba said:


> Tell me.....what if somebody takes no pictures of their work at all,does that make them a bad detailer?


Of course not, but by the same token they'd never get my custom and I'm sure not a lot from other folk too! This threads precisely states to check out the detailer's work carefully! With no pics, no can do!


----------



## Refined Detail (Nov 27, 2006)

Sony said:


> True- but *somehow you perceive the few who are then allowed to post their work in the studios as pros.* All are good,it seems- but some are much better than others. And can charge the same price. And I then come back to my same point: A few pics cannot prove how good they are. Someone with a crap camera might be an excellent detailer but the pics do not do their work justice.
> It's just too hard to see what's what. Plus the point made about people recommending them- what if they've just started? A few have, how are they going to get the work?


As I said above, that's not Detailing World's issue or fault, that's purely down to what people misconceive, there's just no helping some people!!

Pricing even amongst the pro's differs a fair amount based on several factors - overall overheads, amount of staff working for them, range of products / boutique products used, location etc etc. I think if you researched it, you'd find that prices do vary a reasonable amount from company to company. The price tag doesn't necessarily reflect on the quality of work, there are other factors to take into consideration, labour costs is only a small fraction of the overall "pie"

If you choose a detailer just from some photos on a forum, then you only have yourself to blame should things go wrong, as I stated a few pages back in this thread, you have to do research, which may well involve having several detailers out to quote the car, at least this way you meet them face to face and are able to build your own opinion from there. I'm a firm believer that first impressions count for a lot.

You get work from when you first set up by getting out there and proving what you are able to do. I started from basic valeting and worked my way up from there, as my basic valeting was always superior to other valeting companies around me, so word of mouth soon spread and allowed my reputation to grow :thumb: I'm sure that's the case for many others too. Having said that, yes there are various weekend warriors out there who start off doing it as a hobby, and as soon as they have a couple of cars under their belt with a dual action polisher, they then go on their car club forum and advertise themselves as a pro at stupidly low prices and go from there - this is something that I don't particularly support, but it happens!


----------



## Guest (Nov 27, 2010)

Sony said:


> Of course not, but by the same token they'd never get my custom and I'm sure not a lot from other folk too! This threads precisely states to check out the detailer's work carefully! With no pics, no can do!


Fair enough,i was curious to your view on my question


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

Refined Detail said:


> which may well involve having several detailers out to quote the car, at least this way you meet them face to face and are able to build your own opinion from there.


Realistically this doesn't work- most will be enthusiastic and show off marvellous pics! I've met 4 detailers face to face and all had produced good results. However the reality is that it might not translate to the same finish on your car, and some may have experience, but make the same mistakes over and over again. You won't know until they do your car!


----------



## Refined Detail (Nov 27, 2006)

I think I'll leave it there, you appear to be somebody who likes to tell me the sky is orange on a sunny day, even when it's quite clearly blue :wave:


----------



## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Sony said:


> Realistically this doesn't work- most will be enthusiastic and show off marvellous pics! I've met 4 detailers face to face and all had produced good results. However the reality is that it might not translate to the same finish on your car, and some may have experience, but make the same mistakes over and over again. You won't know until they do your car!


that depends on how long you give the detailer and how much you're willing to pay! a 4 day detail costing many hundreds (if not thousands) will look much better than a "cheaper" detail done outside with time restrictions. Every car is different both in how it reacts to paint correction and in condition.

Unless you go and watch a detailer in action (which they wont be keen on) then decent before, after and 50/50 shots are what you have to go on. You cant ask a detailer to do your car to see how it turns out before you decide to use them can you.


----------



## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

I know a few that offer a demo/test section prior to bookings, ive offered it in the past but to be brutally honest, unless you see anyones work first hand, there is no 100% gaurantee of quality of work etc.
Seeing previous work inthe flesh at car shows and so on means nothing either unless its been kept wrapped in cotton wool until that actual day, also knowing what it had done to it.
You could quite openly slate some works carried out but then the owner has only had a protection detail, enhancement detail or a simple wash and tidy up.
Also, customer persception on what they are wanting and what they have seen in pictures does not always work out correctly imo.


----------



## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

Refined Detail said:


> I think I'll leave it there, you appear to be somebody who likes to tell me the sky is orange on a sunny day, even when it's quite clearly blue :wave:


I don't know what the hell you're not getting! You're a detailer and obviously have never given your pride and joy to someone else to detail.
Try and see it from a *newbie's* point of view.


----------



## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

Sony you're just gonna have to ring round and decide who you trust with your car. Look at some showroom threads by the supporters. Quite a few members have had their cars detailed by a supporter, pm them and ask how the detailer did. Maybe post a suggestions thread in the regional section. Keep in mind, when you see a car that has had a week and 2 grand thrown at it, you WON'T get the same for a £200 enhancement or even a more expensive correction over a day or two. Although I am confident most of our supporters will impress with the standard time frame they are given. As Scott suggested, maybe ask the detailer to do a section and see what it looks like. Other than that there's not much else you can do other than do a little research and remember the old adage...you get what you pay for.


----------

