# Most Durable Paint Sealant - Recommendations



## nicks16v (Jan 7, 2009)

Hi folks, any recommendations for durable paint sealants ? I have a few already but wondered if there were others you recommend. I have wowos crystal Sealant, TW hydrophobic sealant wax, Menz Power lock, Optimum opti seal.

Thinking the game may have moved on a bit since I purchased these.

Thanks in advance.

Nick


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## Lexus-is250 (Feb 4, 2017)

Maguires Hybrid ceramic spray wax is worth a look. First Maguires lsp I'd used and have been very impressed with it. 

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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

Menz powerlock is still one of the longest lasting sealants. Need to get into the ceramic world to go much beyond that. Just thought of fusso though.


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## nicks16v (Jan 7, 2009)

I didn't want to go the Ceramic route as I like to try different things (or should I say, I am addicted to buying new products). i do have power lock, its the only one I haven't used yet though.


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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

nicks16v said:


> I didn't want to go the Ceramic route as I like to try different things (or should I say, I am addicted to buying new products). i do have power lock, its the only one I haven't used yet though.


I'm confused you enjoy trying different products so you don't want to try ceramic?


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

Powerlock is nice to use and leaves a nice finish but has a pretty long cure time so i would opt for crystal sealant this time of year . Crystal sealant will probably last much longer also

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## SuperchargedLlama (Apr 25, 2008)

noorth said:


> I'm confused you enjoy trying different products so you don't want to try ceramic?


I'd assume because it's expensive and long lasting, which kinds prevents you from needing to try something different or justifying the cost of buying something else?


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## nicks16v (Jan 7, 2009)

Mother-Goose said:


> I'd assume because it's expensive and long lasting, which kinds prevents you from needing to try something different or justifying the cost of buying something else?


Correct, once its on its on for a very long time. Whereas a sealant shouldnt need to be machine polished off if I wanted to try something else


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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

Awwww!  I see, makes sense. 

I can make a little excuse though i was thinking about cancoat.  which still lasts.

Easy to take things out of context in the digital world.


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## Lexus-is250 (Feb 4, 2017)

nicks16v said:


> Correct, once its on its on for a very long time. Whereas a sealant shouldnt need to be machine polished off if I wanted to try something else


Can always top a sealant. I tend to use crystal sealant as a base then go from there.

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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

noorth said:


> Menz powerlock is still one of the longest lasting sealants. Need to get into the ceramic world to go much beyond that. Just thought of fusso though.


Is it though? I haven't been all that impressed with its staying power in my tests, especially for how much it costs. I would put a lot of hybrid waxes above it in durability, and especially water beading/sheeting performance.


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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

Sheep said:


> Is it though? I haven't been all that impressed with its staying power in my tests, especially for how much it costs. I would put a lot of hybrid waxes above it in durability, and especially water beading/sheeting performance.


You caught me. :lol: I never used it just going on reputation.

But it started the conversation. :driver:


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## alfajim (May 4, 2011)

sonax polymer net shield


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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

alfajim said:


> sonax polymer net shield


I have used polymer net shield - almost have my full can used up - it really hold ups and has great water behavior. It lasts longer then polish angel rapidwaxx or high gloss.

Simple to use to.

Thanks for reminding alfajim! Might be able to get a quick application with PNS in the cold mths.


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## Blanco92 (Oct 17, 2013)

alfajim said:


> sonax polymer net shield





noorth said:


> I have used polymer net shield - almost have my full can used up - it really hold ups and has great water behavior.


Haven't used PNS, but have used the similar P&S. It has good self-cleaning properties, for a non-ceramic it's got to be one of the best out there. Can see a huge difference between my car and my OH's... mine wears Colli 845, it beads as well as her car but her's is wearing P&S and over a period ends up needing less washing. Totally against what you expect from a black car!


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Sheep said:


> Is it though? I haven't been all that impressed with its staying power in my tests, especially for how much it costs. I would put a lot of hybrid waxes above it in durability, and especially water beading/sheeting performance.


I agree. The Stateside forums are always harping on about Powerlock, but if that is what is classed as good over there, then no wonder why Jetseal is a popular American product!


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## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

noorth said:


> I have used polymer net shield - almost have my full can used up - it really hold ups and has great water behavior. It lasts longer then polish angel rapidwaxx or high gloss.
> 
> *Simple to use to*.
> 
> Thanks for reminding alfajim! Might be able to get a quick application with PNS in the cold mths.


do what?

Hands up if you get this.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

roscopervis said:


> I agree. The Stateside forums are always harping on about Powerlock, but if that is what is classed as good over there, then no wonder why Jetseal is a popular American product!


The Auto Detailing Subreddit uses ONR to wash, PL+ and then adds 845 on top as the "holy grail" of car detailing. Meanwhile 1 coat of 476S out lasts both, and don't get me started on Finis Wax. They are mostly missguided overthere. I understand some brands don't exist stateside (BH being a big one), and brands like Jescar, CG, and the NA native brands have crazy good pricing that it makes using other options needlessly expensive to them. Canada is like the US, but even worse pricing all round, and even more extreme weather in some areas.



Rakti said:


> do what?
> 
> Hands up if you get this.


He meant "Simple to use, too". As in, PNS is also simple to use.


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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

Blanco92 said:


> Haven't used PNS, but have used the similar P&S. It has good self-cleaning properties, for a non-ceramic it's got to be one of the best out there. Can see a huge difference between my car and my OH's... mine wears Colli 845, it beads as well as her car but her's is wearing P&S and over a period ends up needing less washing. Totally against what you expect from a black car!


Whats P&S? I'm not familiar.


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## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

noorth said:


> Whats P&S? I'm not familiar.


They may be talking about P&S Bead Maker.


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## straight6hatch (Jul 17, 2020)

noorth said:


> Whats P&S? I'm not familiar.


I believe it should have been 'PNS' as in Polymer Net Sheild. Not that i've ever heard of it either...to google!


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Sheep said:


> The Auto Detailing Subreddit uses ONR to wash, PL+ and then adds 845 on top as the "holy grail" of car detailing. Meanwhile 1 coat of 476S out lasts both, and don't get me started on Finis Wax. They are mostly missguided overthere. I understand some brands don't exist stateside (BH being a big one), and brands like Jescar, CG, and the NA native brands have crazy good pricing that it makes using other options needlessly expensive to them. Canada is like the US, but even worse pricing all round, and even more extreme weather in some areas.
> 
> He meant "Simple to use, too". As in, PNS is also simple to use.


That is why I like your tests so much. It brings in much better influences!


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

roscopervis said:


> That is why I like your tests so much. It brings in much better influences!


I'm working on some more, but I ran into a snag this morning so I need to re-start a portion of it. This will be one of the more interesting ones as it potentially opens up a lot of options, and removes a lot of hassles for ceramic coatings.


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## Blanco92 (Oct 17, 2013)

noorth said:


> Whats P&S? I'm not familiar.


Sorry for the confusion. I meant Sonax *P*rotect *&* *S*hine Hybrid NPT to give it its full name. It's the more weekend warrior version of PNS (which is in their professional range).


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## alfajim (May 4, 2011)

i use pns as a base, then top it with sonax spray and seal after a couple of months.
got sonax shampoo that's infused with spray and seal, that's really good. i use that once a month to bring the epic water behavior back.


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## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

I know it's expensive in comparison to BSD (and others) but Menzerna Endless Shine doesn't seem to get a mention in these threads. Is it not very durable (as that's the title of this thread) compared to others that have been mentioned?


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

Rakti said:


> I know it's expensive in comparison to BSD (and others) but Menzerna Endless Shine doesn't seem to get a mention in these threads. Is it not very durable (as that's the title of this thread) compared to others that have been mentioned?


I believe it's fairly new, so that could be why. The problem with this category is there is so many players, most people have already found their favorite at a given price point, so new products won't be able to shake up the norms. They don't also have a legacy to stand on in this area like other manufactures more known for these items.

I guess they could always pay Pan to get the word out.


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## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

Sheep said:


> I believe it's fairly new, so that could be why. The problem with this category is there is so many players, most people have already found their favorite at a given price point, so new products won't be able to shake up the norms. They don't also have a legacy to stand on in this area like other manufactures more known for these items.
> 
> I guess they could always pay Pan to get the word out.


It gets good reviews on CYC. Then again, almost all of them do.


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## B8sy (Dec 6, 2014)

I get 9 to 12 months from fusso soft coat with a top coat like sonax bsd once every couple of months. 

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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

alfajim said:


> i use pns as a base, then top it with sonax spray and seal after a couple of months.
> got sonax shampoo that's infused with spray and seal, that's really good. i use that once a month to bring the epic water behavior back.


Excellent combo i would imagine. For the price, ease of use and water behavior, PNS is up there IMO. Doesn't have the stand out/rich/dark look like polish angel products in my experience but its very durable and hydrophobic. Considering it was one of my first LSP.s maybe thats why i'm a water beading nut.:lol:


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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

Sheep said:


> The Auto Detailing Subreddit uses ONR to wash, PL+ and then adds 845 on top as the "holy grail" of car detailing. Meanwhile 1 coat of 476S out lasts both, and don't get me started on Finis Wax. They are mostly missguided overthere. I understand some brands don't exist stateside (BH being a big one), and brands like Jescar, CG, and the NA native brands have crazy good pricing that it makes using other options needlessly expensive to them. Canada is like the US, but even worse pricing all round, and even more extreme weather in some areas.
> 
> He meant "Simple to use, too". As in, PNS is also simple to use.


What's this, "The Auto Detailing Subreddit" ? And what is stateside?

Pages on reddit? confusing site.

*The Auto Detailing Subreddit uses ONR to wash, PL+ and then adds 845 on top as the "holy grail" of car detailing.*

Don't tell me they got obsessed garaged!


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## Pinny (Dec 15, 2016)

I still think polish angel master sealant is a great one.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

noorth said:


> What's this, "The Auto Detailing Subreddit" ? And what is stateside?
> 
> Pages on reddit? confusing site.
> 
> ...


Reddit is a gathering of subreddits, each of which has a specific topic. The Auto Detailing subreddit is the main one for car cleaning. Most of the users are in areas with water restrictions which is why ONR/waterless washing is so prevalent. To be fair, ONR is a fantastic product. It's an excellent value, has numerous uses and does what it says on the bottle. The problem with it is more the problem with waterless washing in general - it's only so useful. You're not going to be able to properly clean a wheel or wheel well in that fashion, at least not without a massive amount of effort over regular washing. It also goes through about a million and a half microfibers, and these MFs become downgraded to engine bay/not paint safe use once you wipe down raw paint with them.

The PL+ and 845 combo might be great, but applying 2 products over 1 better product is always worse, and PL+ has never represented a good value in my opinion.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

B8sy said:


> I get 9 to 12 months from fusso soft coat with a top coat like sonax bsd once every couple of months.
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


Is that all? I can get at least 3 years out of that combo.:buffer:


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

roscopervis said:


> Is that all? I can get at least 3 years out of that combo.:buffer:


At what point is the base product considered "spent" if it's topped every month?


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## B8sy (Dec 6, 2014)

roscopervis said:


> Is that all? I can get at least 3 years out of that combo.:buffer:


Wow, I'm quite lazy with keeping on top of the bsd though. I try to do monthly but often it can be a few months.

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## JMB (Apr 23, 2009)

My vote goes to Zaino Z2 lads!


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## Blanco92 (Oct 17, 2013)

Sheep said:


> At what point is the base product considered "spent" if it's topped every month?


I used to think like that... if you have to top, surely your LSP hasn't performed to expectations.

However since using BSD I'm converted. It adds no significant time to the drying process, in fact it makes it a more pleasant experience, and it's not expensive. Perhaps also it's extending the life of the LSP... see that can of worms, it's everywhere!


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

Blanco92 said:


> I used to think like that... if you have to top, surely your LSP hasn't performed to expectations.
> 
> However since using BSD I'm converted. It adds no significant time to the drying process, in fact it makes it a more pleasant experience, and it's not expensive. Perhaps also it's extending the life of the LSP... see that can of worms, it's everywhere!


Yeah, but that is my point. At what point is sealant/wax/coating + BSD now just.... BSD. After a while the paint will start getting rough and contaminated, at which point it's better to just decon, strip, and re wax/seal/coat.


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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

Sheep said:


> Reddit is a gathering of subreddits, each of which has a specific topic. The Auto Detailing subreddit is the main one for car cleaning. Most of the users are in areas with water restrictions which is why ONR/waterless washing is so prevalent. To be fair, ONR is a fantastic product. It's an excellent value, has numerous uses and does what it says on the bottle. The problem with it is more the problem with waterless washing in general - it's only so useful. You're not going to be able to properly clean a wheel or wheel well in that fashion, at least not without a massive amount of effort over regular washing. It also goes through about a million and a half microfibers, and these MFs become downgraded to engine bay/not paint safe use once you wipe down raw paint with them.
> 
> The PL+ and 845 combo might be great, but applying 2 products over 1 better product is always worse, and PL+ has never represented a good value in my opinion.


Get off the fence, you know topping powerlock with colly 845 is totally silly to put it mildy. That matt guy is a full on con man. and creepy. just some context i'm a 300 pound guy. i'm "Brad Hillier" on youtube. I can't stand that matt fellow he's a con man.

****ing idiot is sucking 300 american for 3 buckets out of people!!

Apparently, he is just selling "process". Shot that piece of ****

Cancer. It used to be his "side hussle" apparently.

Matt at obessed garage = parasite.


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## notfub (May 9, 2007)

Lexus-is250 said:


> Can always top a sealant. I tend to use crystal sealant as a base then go from there.


I've been considering putting something on top of crystal sealant myself as it's not beading as well as the TW sealant wax I use on the wifes car. However, doesn't topping a sealant defeat the object of using the sealant in the first place....or would it be considered adding more protection for the winter?

Worth the effort or a waste of time and product?


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## Lexus-is250 (Feb 4, 2017)

notfub said:


> I've been considering putting something on top of crystal sealant myself as it's not beading as well as the TW sealant wax I use on the wifes car. However, doesn't topping a sealant defeat the object of using the sealant in the first place....or would it be considered adding more protection for the winter?
> 
> Worth the effort or a waste of time and product?


You can top it with no issues. I topped mine as like you I wasn't completely happy with the water behaviour. It was good but thought I'd try something else. Put Maguires Hybrid ceramic wax over it and the water behaviour is far better.

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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

noorth said:


> Get off the fence, you know topping powerlock with colly 845 is totally silly to put it mildy. That matt guy is a full on con man. and creepy. just some context i'm a 300 pound guy. i'm "Brad Hillier" on youtube. I can't stand that matt fellow he's a con man.
> 
> ****ing idiot is sucking 300 american for 3 buckets out of people!!
> 
> ...


Why are you so angry man ahah

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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

notfub said:


> I've been considering putting something on top of crystal sealant myself as it's not beading as well as the TW sealant wax I use on the wifes car. However, doesn't topping a sealant defeat the object of using the sealant in the first place....or would it be considered adding more protection for the winter?
> 
> Worth the effort or a waste of time and product?


How old is the Crystal Sealant? I found the hydrophobicity pretty good & considerably better than TW sealant wax. You could always top CS with another layer of it using as a drying aid.









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## noorth (Jul 10, 2019)

Eturty said:


> Why are you so angry man ahah
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just sad to see people waste 300 bucks on buckets. I'm angry yes. I can't visit my girls - wife and daughter - in asia. :wall: That matt guy is a parasite though imo but its a "free market". If i meet him on the street i would tell him he's a parasite, trust me. And i'm not a "hater" lol The guy is a parasite. Lots of great youtube content. He's a provocateur. I guess it worked with me!:lol: I did recently watch jon on forensic give him a shout out, older video but disappointing nonetheless - probably the reason i looked him up again! HAHA Thanks Jon.


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## notfub (May 9, 2007)

Brian1612 said:


> How old is the Crystal Sealant? I found the hydrophobicity pretty good & considerably better than TW sealant wax. You could always top CS with another layer of it using as a drying aid.


I've recently bought and used CS v3 for the first time, so it's not been sat around for ages on a shelf. I'll wash my car tomorrow and use the CS as a drying aid as you've suggested to see if the finish improves. Thanks for the advice.:thumb:


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Sheep said:


> At what point is the base product considered "spent" if it's topped every month?


Exactly my point - you'll never know so can quote nonsense durability claims. I see it and wonder where they have figured out how logic works.


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## Sheep (Mar 20, 2009)

roscopervis said:


> Exactly my point - you'll never know so can quote nonsense durability claims. I see it and wonder where they have figured out how logic works.


I understand topping between full redo's, and I know that coatings like specific toppers and those toppers perform better when a coating is under them, but if you base layer can't run at least a year on its own, might as well just spray wax after each wash.


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## notfub (May 9, 2007)

notfub said:


> I've recently bought and used CS v3 for the first time, so it's not been sat around for ages on a shelf. I'll wash my car tomorrow and use the CS as a drying aid as you've suggested to see if the finish improves. Thanks for the advice.:thumb:


Here's a few pics of my Renault Megane RS roof (red paint) after WOWO's Crystal Sealant and the wife's Audi A1 (glass) pano roof after TW sealant wax. Both taken this morning, just as the sun came up and the morning frost was starting to melt.

My Megane was washed Sunday and I used CS as a drying aid as suggested by Brian above, as the initial treatment beading had fallen off.

The Audi had a wash 8 days ago and has been used since, so there's probably some dust/dirt on the surface. Essentially, the red paint should be cleaner than the glass pano roof on the Audi.

Not much in it really at this stage as the re-application of CS on the Megane has helped the water behaviour.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

notfub said:


> Here's a few pics of my Renault Megane RS roof (red paint) after WOWO's Crystal Sealant and the wife's Audi A1 (glass) pano roof after TW sealant wax. Both taken this morning, just as the sun came up and the morning frost was starting to melt.
> 
> My Megane was washed Sunday and I used CS as a drying aid as suggested by Brian above, as the initial treatment beading had fallen off.
> 
> ...


I like using it this way as a topper instead of another product entirely. Ona separate note when I asked how old it was, I meant the application although I can see how you misunderstood. Assume the paint prep on both was the same as well?

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## notfub (May 9, 2007)

Brian1612 said:


> I like using it this way as a topper instead of another product entirely. Ona separate note when I asked how old it was, I meant the application although I can see how you misunderstood. Assume the paint prep on both was the same as well?


Apologies Brian, the original application of CS was around 5 or 6 weeks ago, but I've not used that car that much since. I bought the car in August as a used example that was just over a year old, but the paintwork was in good condition so just a basic snow foam, wash, de-tar and de-iron, wash, panel wipe with eraser (probably not needed) before applying the CS. I've not clayed and corrected the paint yet.

The wife's car get's less attention to be honest and now just gets washed weekends with TW sealant wax used as a drying aid. It probably needs a 2 day decon on it if I was being picky but still looks lovely as we've owned it since new and always kept on top of the looks.

So, in short, the prep on both was not the same to be honest, just added the pic of the TW for reference.


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## galamaa (Aug 3, 2014)

This is your answer:


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

notfub said:


> Apologies Brian, the original application of CS was around 5 or 6 weeks ago, but I've not used that car that much since. I bought the car in August as a used example that was just over a year old, but the paintwork was in good condition so just a basic snow foam, wash, de-tar and de-iron, wash, panel wipe with eraser (probably not needed) before applying the CS. I've not clayed and corrected the paint yet.
> 
> The wife's car get's less attention to be honest and now just gets washed weekends with TW sealant wax used as a drying aid. It probably needs a 2 day decon on it if I was being picky but still looks lovely as we've owned it since new and always kept on top of the looks.
> 
> So, in short, the prep on both was not the same to be honest, just added the pic of the TW for reference.


Love an RS!

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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Lexus-is250 said:


> Maguires Hybrid ceramic spray wax is worth a look. First Maguires lsp I'd used and have been very impressed with it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk


What's HCW real life durability? I have seen everything quoted from 1 month to more than 6 months in a daily driver. What's your experience of it?


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