# what did people use before clay was available?



## fufuandrice (Feb 26, 2011)

i'd rather not spend £20 on clay, so i was wondering what people used before clay was available?


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## fizzle86 (Apr 1, 2010)

You really do wanna spend the £20 you jus dont know it yet!! As soon as you use it you will see its value and im sure you can get some for less then £20!!


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## fufuandrice (Feb 26, 2011)

that wasnt what i asked.


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

In the past, prior to clay being used, bonded contaminants were generally left on the paint surface and removed via the polishing process

The problem with this is that these contaminants were then trapped between the polishing medium and the paint surface, both interfering with the polishing process and also being moved across the paint surface, with the massively increased risk of marring/scratching the paint surface. 

Is it worth the risk of scratching the paint for the sake of £20? (Or a Meguiar's Quik Clay kit for £14.95 including lubricant)


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## fufuandrice (Feb 26, 2011)

could i polish by hand with tcut first and then wash and then use a machine?


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## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

I suggest you take a look in the 'Guides' section on here, should explain a lot of things :thumb:


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

The best clay on the market imo costs £10 and can be used with water. So it's actually cheaper than a bottle of polish.

I've seen a simple clay session transform the look of a car before even starting correction work.


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## EastUpperGooner (May 31, 2009)

Since when was clay £20?

£8 from Hong Kong for 180g bar.


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## Posambique (Oct 20, 2010)

fizzle86 said:


> You really do wanna spend the £20 you jus dont know it yet!! As soon as you use it you will see its value and im sure you can get some for less then £20!!


+1 Nothing to add


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## fufuandrice (Feb 26, 2011)

but why spend money when i dont have to? are there any other common household products that can be used?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

You can buy Bilt Hamber soft for around £11 and there's no better clay. Petrol on a rag will remove most bonded stuff but probably costs more than clay now!


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## fufuandrice (Feb 26, 2011)

will petrol do the same job as clay?


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## Edstrung (Apr 6, 2009)

I think the closest thing to 'cowboy clay' is blue-tac isn't it? Although my days I wouldn't like to see the marring post-session. It's filled with little hard bits in it, and the 'tack' is a substance that is semi-solid when under pressure. I would think it would be like claying your car with a tar-like glue with bits of corn in.

Yes the first use of clay on your car will pick up loads of bonded contaminants, but that in itself will get easier next tiem, using half as much clay. Shall we say 5 claying sessions out of a Meg's Quick Clay or similar system? £2 a go.....


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

I think you can get clay cheaper than £20 - and TBH its worth it 

Polishing would have been the previous way before and perhaps a tar type remover would have been an option to remove prior to the polishing stage


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

fufuandrice said:


> will petrol do the same job as clay?


Yes, try a small dab on some contaminants and watch it disappear.


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

fufuandrice said:


> but why spend money when i dont have to? are there any other common household products that can be used?


Don't bother then. Simple!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Isn't petrol dearer than clay these days :devil:


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

I did mention that, pointless directing some people though! What more could you ask for than BH clay for £11 ish that will do 4 or 5 cars?


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

gally said:


> The best clay on the market imo costs £10 and can be used with water. So it's actually cheaper than a bottle of polish.
> 
> I've seen a simple clay session transform the look of a car before even starting correction work.


+ 1 :thumb:


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## andytvcams (Aug 31, 2010)

bigmc said:


> You can buy Bilt Hamber soft for around £11 and there's no better clay. Petrol on a rag will remove most bonded stuff but probably costs more than clay now!


Second that.:thumb:


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## tom-225 (Aug 30, 2009)

Im sure if there was a nice cheap household product that did the job of clay we would all use it and it would be all over the forums. Instead there iant and people use clay instead


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## fufuandrice (Feb 26, 2011)

clay just wipes off all the crap thats stuck to the paint right? petrol should do the same thing...


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## beko1987 (Jul 25, 2010)

I love clay, I get bored waiting for the car to become contaminated after I've cleaned it!

Seriously buddy, get some clay! You can use it on glass as well, brings it up well. Don't skimp on the simple things.


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

Lots and lots of elbow grease for me. Polish back in the day after a good wash. Clay is a new addition for me and well worth the money. BH is my clay of choice. About £10 ish and it cuts into 4 so thats £2.50:thumb:


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## Jamie-O (Jan 28, 2010)

IMO petrol isnt for paint.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Why not?


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## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

Why bother asking for advice when your mind seems quite firmly made up anyway?


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## Jamie-O (Jan 28, 2010)

bigmc said:


> Why not?


Well i usually use it as fuel like tbh...


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## Jamie-O (Jan 28, 2010)

Leodhasach said:


> Why bother asking for advice when your mind seems quite firmly made up anyway?


Im agreed on this.


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## Red_Cloverleaf (Jul 26, 2009)

fufuandrice said:


> but why spend money when i dont have to? are there any other common household products that can be used?


Blu-Tac.


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

fufuandrice said:


> could i polish by hand with tcut first and then wash and then use a machine?


yeah just wash it, then tcut. that'd be fine :thumb:


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## tom-225 (Aug 30, 2009)

You know qht some nice 80grit sandpaper would do the job of romoving any contaminents in the paint.

On a serious note petrol will do more of a similar job to tar and glue remover. Ever after t product like tardis has been used on a car it STILL needs clayi g with proper detailing clay. The petrol will just remove all the oils from ypur paint and ot will look like most red vauxhalls after wards. 

The saying goes if a jobs worth doing, do it properly. Or you may aswell not bother at all.

The whole poit of detailing is to do a proper job of cleaning a car


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## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

Red_Cloverleaf said:


> Blu-Tac.


Try it, doesn't remove contaminants *anything* like as well as detailing clay.


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## Red_Cloverleaf (Jul 26, 2009)

Leodhasach said:


> Try it, doesn't remove contaminants *anything* like as well as detailing clay.


I didn't say it did.


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## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

Red_Cloverleaf said:


> I didn't say it did.


Ah, fair enough  I did try it out of interest, and it was useless.


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## gordonpuk (Mar 14, 2010)

ianFRST said:


> yeah just wash it, then tcut. that'd be fine :thumb:


I think an old pair of underpants would be the applicator of choice here.


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## nicp2007 (Apr 25, 2007)

mate you can get clay for around a tenner,

if you don't want to spend that much on a product that is a vital part of the process you may as well hit the log out button now 


i don't mean this in a nasty way but things only get dearer from there on in,

you can't use pledge as your lsp 
you can't use bleach to degrease the engine

houshold products are for the house detailing products are for.... well anything you want to make shiny :thumb:
you can however use windowlene for windows


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## Glen.MJeeSe (Feb 7, 2011)

If you are not even willing to buy a clay, you may aswell use the petrol as you suggested... May I suggest lighting it once you have applied it evenly  Use a DA for even application.

GoodLuck.


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## TIODGE (Jan 26, 2011)

Glen.MJeeSe said:


> If you are not even willing to buy a clay, you may aswell use the petrol as you suggested... May I suggest lighting it once you have applied it evenly  Use a DA for even application.
> 
> GoodLuck.


ha-ha !!

Made me chuckle.

Seriously if you care for your car which you do or you wouldn't be on here then bite the bullet and try. Nothing will bring the paint out smoother to the touch


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Having looked through the thread, it appears only John @PB answered the OPs question


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

fufuandrice said:


> could i polish by hand with tcut first and then wash and then use a machine?


t-cut removes oxidision (sp), not bonded contamients...


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## Jochen (May 21, 2007)

fufuandrice said:


> clay just wipes off all the crap thats stuck to the paint right? petrol should do the same thing...


You just don't want to get it do you... :lol:


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## GolfFanBoy (May 23, 2010)

Pride & Performance said:


> mate you can get clay for around a tenner,
> 
> if you don't want to spend that much on a product that is a vital part of the process you may as well hit the log out button now
> 
> ...





Glen.MJeeSe said:


> If you are not even willing to buy a clay, you may aswell use the petrol as you suggested... May I suggest lighting it once you have applied it evenly  Use a DA for even application.
> 
> GoodLuck.


:lol:


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## G900GTI (May 20, 2007)

1 guess what forum this is coming from :wave:


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Pride & Performance said:


> mate you can get clay for around a tenner,
> 
> if you don't want to spend that much on a product that is a vital part of the process you may as well hit the log out button now
> 
> ...


Through experience, I would not suggest windolene pink cream in leui of bonified glass polish , it really is not as effective.
Although Pledge cannot be used as such as an LSP, some have used it as a QD, besides 151 spray wax is probably cheaper :thumb:
Bleach perhaps not to clean the engine, however many have used household APCs to the good :thumb:


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## Red_Cloverleaf (Jul 26, 2009)

Avanti said:


> Having looked through the thread, it appears only John @PB answered the OPs question


Ask every else to delete their responses if it's bugging you..............


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## tom-225 (Aug 30, 2009)

And also what is the point in this thread at all when you have said in your intro thread that you already have clay???


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## Red_Cloverleaf (Jul 26, 2009)

tom-225 said:


> And also what is the point in this thread at all when you have said in your intro thread that you already have clay???


No point whatsoever, to be honest. :wall:

I'm sure that the world will continue on it's axis, even without clay.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Red_Cloverleaf said:


> Ask every else to delete their responses if it's bugging you..............


I just think the OP asked a valid question, he was not challenging the use of clay, he just asked what was used before the introduction of clay :driver:


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## rtjc (Apr 19, 2009)

I just used t-cut back in the day, and also AG intensive tar remover. I had a Lancia Delta when i was younger and doing it all by hand, way before i knew anything i know now was a great learning experience, and i KNOW that combo works well. And to be honest, it was way too bad for any clay!


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## Red_Cloverleaf (Jul 26, 2009)

Avanti said:


> I just think the OP asked a valid question, he was not challenging the use of clay, he just asked what was used before the introduction of clay :driver:


Remember...........it's a Forum.


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## nicp2007 (Apr 25, 2007)

Avanti said:


> I just think the OP asked a valid question, he was not challenging the use of clay, he just asked what was used before the introduction of clay :driver:


the original question was a fair one but it went down hill form there :wall:


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

I didn't use clay until recently but the bilt hamber regular and the soft are now stoked up in my collection and would not be without it I the regular @ £10 that can be cut into 4 lots a bargain.:thumb:


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## 888-Dave (Jul 30, 2010)

Guys... I feel this is a bit of a wind up as the op has dissapeared since about page 2

For us on here, clay is simply the single most important stage in the prep stage (before Iron X obviously) and was thought of, manufactured and sold to fill a need and for those that don't get it fine... don't use it.

over and out!


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Pride & Performance said:


> the original question was a fair one but it went down hill form there :wall:


Yes it seems so


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## Hondahead1991 (Feb 19, 2011)

posambique said:


> +1 nothing to add


+2


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## fufuandrice (Feb 26, 2011)

no i havent disappeared, i have a life you know 

so people used nothing before clay was invented?


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## nicp2007 (Apr 25, 2007)

fufuandrice said:


> no i havent disappeared, i have a life you know
> 
> so people used nothing before clay was invented?


basically yeah :thumb:

but then people used to use G3 etc and not menzerna and 3M


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## 888-Dave (Jul 30, 2010)

fufuandrice said:


> no i havent disappeared, i have a life you know


Thought that might bring you back 

up until Iron X came around there really isn't any subsitute for clay.

You really should just give it a try, what have you got to loose.

You never know... you might like it :thumb:


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## samwyard (Jan 20, 2011)

Up until 2months ago I thought cleaning a car involved 1 Bucket 1 sponge and wash and wax shampoo then a chamois leather to dry, how wrong was I !!!


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## Martin_HDI (Aug 19, 2010)

My dad did mention he just used white spirit on a cloth and a bit of rubbing then a good wash. I tried to convert him with a shot of my BH clay but he decided to look it up and find people using blu-tac so he's decided that it's just as good if not better as he can't see the marring on his transit as it's already fubar.


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## Spuj (Apr 19, 2010)

Before came here I never new of contaminants bonding to the paint so for me a wash with some shampoo and a sponge resulted in what I thought was a nice clean car.


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## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

888-Dave said:


> For us on here, clay is simply the single most important stage in the prep stage (before Iron X obviously)





888-Dave said:


> up until Iron X came around there really isn't any subsitute for clay.


Iron X and claying do two different things altogether and can't be substituted for each other.



Martin_HDI said:


> My dad did mention he just used white spirit on a cloth and a bit of rubbing then a good wash. I tried to convert him with a shot of my BH clay but he decided to look it up and find people using blu-tac so he's decided that it's just as good if not better as he can't see the marring on his transit as it's already fubar.


BLU-TAC...DOESN'T...WORK!!  I honestly can't understand why people think it's an acceptable substitute for detailing clay (not having a pop at you or your dad btw).


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## Martin_HDI (Aug 19, 2010)

I'm looking forward to trying it on his van, it's swirl heaven (if such a place exists)

Won't be able to see the extent of the marring it causes but will see how well it works/doesn't work. 
I'll Probably do it on his roof that's never been washed in years lol.


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## borise30 (Nov 16, 2010)

*yes steel wool*

would do a nice job


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## pld118 (Jan 19, 2011)

Leodhasach said:


> Iron X and claying do two different things altogether and can't be substituted for each other.
> 
> BLU-TAC...DOESN'T...WORK!!  I honestly can't understand why people think it's an acceptable substitute for detailing clay (not having a pop at you or your dad btw).


I bought Iron X and haven't used it as I'm wary about damaging the paintwork due to inexperience... Do I need clay as well?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

pld118 said:


> I bought Iron X and haven't used it as I'm wary about damaging the paintwork due to inexperience... Do I need clay as well?


It won't damage the paint if you follow the instructions and imho you won't always need clay the only real way to tell is to feel the paint, if it feels rough yes you need clay, if by chance it feels like glass then you won't need it.


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## 47p2 (Jun 17, 2007)

fufuandrice said:


> so people used nothing before clay was invented?


You got it in one.

Before clay there was nothing, cleaning the car consisted of a bucket of water, washing up liquid and a cellulose sponge and rinsed with a bucket of water thrown over the top. Then dried with a chamois (only if you were wealthy) before going over the entire car with T-Cut applied with a stockinette cloth. Once that process was completed the polish was applied, usually a Turtle Wax product of some sort. Wax was a bad word, Simoniz hard wax was just about the only proper wax there was and was a nightmare to apply and remove, so the waxing stage was seldom done.

As has already been said there was nothing before clay, often when polishing you ended up having more swirls than you started with because the contaminants were being dragged around the paintwork.

Today however we have a much better understanding of paint and how to treat it. Claying is part of a process that has to be done to allow the next stage of the process to be completed properly.


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## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

Leodhasach said:


> BLU-TAC...DOESN'T...WORK!!


And that's why I shouldn't go near the laptop after a few drinks... :doublesho


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

47p2 said:


> You got it in one.
> 
> *Before clay there was nothing*, cleaning the car consisted of a bucket of water, washing up liquid and a cellulose sponge and rinsed with a bucket of water thrown over the top. Then dried with a chamois (only if you were wealthy) before going over the entire car with T-Cut applied with a stockinette cloth. Once that process was completed the polish was applied, usually a Turtle Wax product of some sort. Wax was a bad word, Simoniz hard wax was just about the only proper wax there was and was a nightmare to apply and remove, so the waxing stage was seldom done.
> 
> ...


I think you may find that there were polishes other than T-cut (and the only bad thing about t-cut is that earlier versions contained ammonia which may cloud clearcoat) polishes often contain clay anyway, which is what causes the white on trim, I have never clayed my car (as in with a clay bar)


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## markcoznottz (Nov 13, 2005)

fufuandrice said:


> i'd rather not spend £20 on clay, so i was wondering what people used before clay was available?


They didnt mate simple as. Clay bars werent readily available in this country till megs started importing thier clay kit. There is a thread on DW somewhere about the history of clay bars, originated in japan i think early 80s, although a company in USA called clay magic sold kits and still does. Bodyshops could order clay bars out of the 3m catalogue from years back, but these were mainly used for removing overspray, nothing more.

Its funny you mentioned using petrol, i was speaking to an old valeter he said they used petrol before tar and glue came out for removing tar etc.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

markcoznottz said:


> They didnt mate simple as. Clay bars werent readily available in this country till megs started importing thier clay kit. There is a thread on DW somewhere about the history of clay bars, originated in japan i think early 80s, although a company in USA called clay magic sold kits and still does. Bodyshops could order clay bars out of the 3m catalogue from years back, but these were mainly used for removing overspray, nothing more.
> 
> Its funny you mentioned using petrol, i was speaking to an old valeter he said they used petrol before tar and glue came out for removing tar etc.


Thought it was the Zymol Lehm clay bar which was 1st introduced to market


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## markcoznottz (Nov 13, 2005)

Avanti said:


> Thought it was the Zymol Lehm clay bar which was 1st introduced to market


Think you might be right. Dont know what year Zymol put a clay bar in thier kits though.


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

As mentioned on here yes there were/are ways of removing contaminants from paint - what no-ones mentioned yet is speed.

You could sit there for hours frantically rubbing at bits of tar etc but now, quick spray with lube, a few strokes of clay and contaminants removed - It does indeed cut half the time of the prior methods


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## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

*Detailer's Clay*

The advent of detailer's clay is an example of why it's important to stay in touch with the innovations made in the detailing industry. New products, chemicals, technologies and ideas are constantly being introduced.

It was originally invented and patented in Japan in 1987, when automotive clay was first introduced to the US there were reports of paint damage due to improper use. With education on correct application methodology this is no longer a problem. It amazes me how many professional detailer's do not know what detailing clay is capable of, let alone how or why they should use it. For the rest of us who have been using it for ten or more years, we can't imagine being without it.

While clay products are useful for overspray and cleaning surface contaminants, it cannot permeate and deep clean the pores of the paint. So without paint decontamination system heat and moisture will react with the metallic particle and continue the corrosion process


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## HornetSting (May 26, 2010)

The OP did ask a geunine question, where this went wrong was that they didnt want to listen to the answers that were being offered. Simply, no one used anything before clay. You have two choices really buy clay and do the job properly OR use what ever you think will do the job (be it petrol, blu tak etc) and use that. Simple.


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## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

TOGWT said:


> *Detailer's Clay*
> 
> The advent of detailer's clay is an example of why it's important to stay in touch with the innovations made in the detailing industry. New products, chemicals, technologies and ideas are constantly being introduced.
> 
> ...


thought i`de seen your user name somewhere before and just realised it`s from it`s a site which i`ve read many articles and got brain ache from , i mean that in a good way of course as it`s full of info :thumb: .

to the OP >>> i know a few of the older generation used to wipe there cars over with white spirits(turps) prior to polishing and waxing and brasso on the metals


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

dwmc said:


> thought i`de seen your user name somewhere before and just realised it`s from it`s a site which i`ve read many articles and got brain ache from , i mean that in a good way of course as it`s full of info :thumb: .
> 
> to the OP >>> i know a few of the older generation used to wipe there cars over with white spirits(turps) prior to polishing and waxing and* brasso on the metals*


I just got some duzzit metal polish wadding and tried it out on my exhaust pipes, very effective it is too :thumb:


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## fizzle86 (Apr 1, 2010)

HornetSting said:


> The OP did ask a geunine question, where this went wrong was that they didnt want to listen to the answers that were being offered. Simply, no one used anything before clay. You have two choices really buy clay and do the job properly OR use what ever you think will do the job (be it petrol, blu tak etc) and use that. Simple.


Well said!

Dont understand people who come on forums ask questions but dont wanna listen to the replies unless they like them!!

Its almost like they wanna hear something magical....


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

fizzle86 said:


> Well said!
> 
> Dont understand people who come on forums ask questions but dont wanna listen to the replies unless they like them!!
> 
> Its almost like they wanna hear something magical....


This is what I read that he had written"i'd rather not spend £20 on clay,* so i was wondering what people used before clay was available?* "

Only one or two replies answered his question


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## Tricky Red (Mar 3, 2007)

Red_Cloverleaf said:


> Blu-Tac.


Err no. Not at all similar.


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## mart21 (May 15, 2008)

years ago i used to use watered down acid wheel cleaner on contaminents ,it used to remove industrial fallout iron fileings and the like, tardis for tar, and body shop thinners for over spray, this was way back in the day.


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## HornetSting (May 26, 2010)

Avanti said:


> This is what I read that he had written"i'd rather not spend £20 on clay,* so i was wondering what people used before clay was available?* "
> 
> Only one or two replies answered his question


Your right only two people replied directly to his question, but the point being made is when they had answered the question it was then responded to in a way that didnt like what had been said, and questioning the answers!!! Thats why its been commented on, why ask a question if your not prepared to accept the answers you are given, kind of defeats the object.


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## fufuandrice (Feb 26, 2011)

sorry if ive come across as a bit arrogant, but my plan was to try and detail the car for as cheap as possible and to compare them against something done with more expensive products.
ive come across dave kg's thread on tcut and i will be using that with a dodo spin doctor on an orange elite coolfoam pad followed by autoglym srp on a red coolfoam pad.

looks like i'll have to clay the car first lol. 

all comments/suggestions are welcome


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

fufuandrice said:


> sorry if ive come across as a bit arrogant, but my plan was to try and detail the car for as cheap as possible and to compare them against something done with more expensive products.
> ive come across dave kg's thread on tcut and i will be using that with a dodo spin doctor on an orange elite coolfoam pad followed by autoglym srp on a red coolfoam pad.
> 
> *looks like i'll have to clay the car first* lol.
> ...


While I can see some of the logic in claying, it is not essential, cars managed before claying and will manage after
:thumb:


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## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

This thread is funny, the answer to the OP's question is *fallout remover*, AG make one which I believe is aptly called Fallout Remover.


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## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

fufuandrice said:


> sorry if ive come across as a bit arrogant, but my plan was to try and detail the car for as cheap as possible and to compare them against something done with more expensive products.
> ive come across dave kg's thread on tcut and i will be using that with a dodo spin doctor on an orange elite coolfoam pad followed by autoglym srp on a red coolfoam pad.
> 
> looks like i'll have to clay the car first lol.
> ...


Well why didn't you say so! :lol:

Let us know how you get on :thumb:


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## dominic84 (Jan 27, 2007)

> While I can see some of the logic in claying, it is not essential, cars managed before claying and will manage after


I agree, the dyes in Iron X prove that it's not even that effective at removing all the contaminents anyway lol


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