# DR Leather Wipes Versus Gliptone



## F17BAD

*DR Leather Wipes Versus Gliptone NOW WITH PICS***

Gonna try out the DR Leather wipes tomo, i usually run the gliptone stuff (really like it)

One question, do Dr Leather wipes remove all conditioner? whats the crack here?, do i need to (or can i apply) conditioner after the Dr Leather wipes ?

:thumb:


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## Lasse

From what I've understood, only "old-school" leather needs to be conditionned. Modern leather as I'm guessing you have, does not require this. The Dr. Leather wipes are cleaning wipes and to my best knowledge they do not contain any sort of conditionner.

I've also used the Gliptone twins, but stopped using the condtionner as I found it to leave a slightly shiny finish. I'm now out of the cleaner but still have plenty of the conditionner. Next leather product on my list are the wipes by Dr. Leather


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## Dr Leather

F17BAD said:


> Gonna try out the DR Leather wipes tomo, i usually run the gliptone stuff (really like it)
> 
> One question, do Dr Leather wipes remove all conditioner? whats the crack here?, do i need to (or can i apply) conditioner after the Dr Leather wipes ?
> 
> :thumb:


Hi there,

In my honest opinion, and it'll be shared by my fellow professionals who make the leather, conditioners are not required. In fact they just sit on the surface and attract dirt and grime. Which then gets ground in to the surface of the leather and requires cleaning again - it's a vicious circle for the consumer but the cleaning brands are rubbing their hands with glee no doubt.

You can apply conditioner afterwards though if you wish to do so. At the end of the day the consumer is king and you must do what pleases you.

Many thanks,

Dr Leather


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## F17BAD

Cheers matey, 

P.S my seats were retrimmed last year with Nappa Leather, so yes its modern


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## Mr Yellow

It really does depend upon the leather. Not all leather is glossy and totally sealed. More than that, aged leather will tend to crack and your protection can be compromised. Some leather conditioners work very much on this basis and are chemically formulated to penetrate into the leather itself where they react and leave a protected, water resistant layer which is actually in the leather (not simply on the top).

I have a VI in this because I am a manufacturer but I use a conditioner product on my 10 year old leather. It is most definitely not sealed up with half an inch of polymer!

Incidentally, RE Gliptone conditioner. If it gives a shiny finish, dilute it. We make matt and gloss versions and the matt is simply a more dilute product.


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## F17BAD

i cant give a bad word to gliptone if im honest, looking forward to the DR leather wipe test tho, will be tomo now as i was a bit busy today


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## Dr Leather

x12yhp said:


> It really does depend upon the leather. Not all leather is glossy and totally sealed. More than that, aged leather will tend to crack and your protection can be compromised. Some leather conditioners work very much on this basis and are chemically formulated to penetrate into the leather itself where they react and leave a protected, water resistant layer which is actually in the leather (not simply on the top).
> 
> I have a VI in this because I am a manufacturer but I use a conditioner product on my 10 year old leather. It is most definitely not sealed up with half an inch of polymer!
> 
> Incidentally, RE Gliptone conditioner. If it gives a shiny finish, dilute it. We make matt and gloss versions and the matt is simply a more dilute product.


Leather gloss levels can be completely controlled through the use of matting agents and the use of a gloss meter. Most of the PU and acrylic resins used in the formulations are naturally glossy so we use a lot of different duller technologies such a glass microspheres, etc to get the desired gloss level. In addition gloss is partly controlled through the design of the grain pattern, where smoother leathers are generally glossier as they reflect light back in a more regular way.

If you are making a product that penetrates the coating do you actually test the said affected coating for flex resistance, taber abrasion resistance, etc, etc to see what it has done to the resins?? Reason I ask is that if affected they can then be irreversibly damaged. It might be something to consider. Do you talk to the manufacturers of the leather at all, e.g. eagle Ottawa, Bridge of Weir, etc???

what is the mechanism of water resistance that you push through the coating to the leather??? How does it react properly??? I would guess it would actually be like a stuffing process as for real water resistance you need fibre substantive treatments if you are looking to maintain breathability. But that's a real Pandora's box to get in to on a forum. Suffice to say there are really only 8 genuine water resistance technologies for leather with regards to mechanism of creating water resistance.

Would like to discuss this more with you if possible.

Rgds,

Dr Leather


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## Mr Yellow

Hi Darryl,

I think you misinterpret me a bit. It is, of course, possible to penetrate the outer, protective layer but we do not do this because, as you say, it would invariably lead to damage of said layer.

I know that many people buy conditioners for general use and I agree entirely that this is somewhat unnecessary. I certainly would not bother on shiny new leather but older and worn leather does tend to be compromised. It is more than possible that there are cracks etc where the initial protection ceases to exist. It is there where I would recommend the use of a conditioner. The system we use is, to my understanding, quite common for this application. The products are water based (hence no penetration on the 'sealed' leather). They penetrate into worn and damaged leather where the active components are preferentially attracted to the fibres. As the water evaporates and (as I understand) with a bit of oxidation, the active components basically polymerise leaving a surface chemistry which yields a hydrophobic property. I suppose, in practice, the fibres are not critical and you can get this effect on the surface and that is likely what people see when they get a 'shiny' finish. I do not imagine that this can be a bad layer... it is still oxygen permeable so the underlying leather should be able to breathe.

I am clearly not an expert in this area, as you are. I just wanted to say that I do feel that there are times when a conditioner is justified and warranted. I also feel that some of the leather cleaners on the market leave the leather a little bit wanting... I am not sure whether they actually damage the surface but it does seem possible to recover the appearance with the use of an appropriate conditioner.

All the best


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## F17BAD

Well these are my seats, had them trimmed a couple of years back, its nappa.

This pic shows them recently after a tratment of Gliptone conditioner, today i used a wipe on the pasenger seat and after i had finished the wipe was absolutly clean, not no trace of any dirt, it was difficult to see a difference in how the seat looked compaiured to the drivers seat (gliptone), i did notice the Dr Leather wipe took some drying on the base where i started with the fresh wipe

Ill try get pics of the Dr Leather treated seat tomo - gonna do the rest of the interior with them, really not sure i like the idea of no conditioner.. ?? ??

this interior cost me Cica £2k so its in my interest to look after it


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## F17BAD

Ok so yesterday i treated one seat with Dr Leather wipes, today i notice lots of streak marks all over the seat and the finish is no different at all in terms of Matt / shine to the drivers seat (treated by Gliptone months ago).

the wipes have left my seat looking horrid-

Im not happy about all the marks the Dr Leather wipes have left, i took my time on the seat and the wipe was as clean when id finished as it was when i started. im gonna have to use a damp cloth or gliptone to remove the streaking the wipes have left.

Sorry to say this but for the momnent, the jury is out on the wipes...


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## Strothow

Not anything like the expeirence i had, nor the majority here: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=219


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## F17BAD

Hmm
After all this hype over these wipes i really did expect better results, gliptone never left any streak marks or anything, i will try get a pic but im guessing it will be hard to get it to show on a pic.


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## F17BAD

view on BH were also agreed by others pal, and im not here to ass kiss or just agree with people, if something does not work how i expect it to, then ill post it up for others to read. Its comments like this that help people decide what products to buy and use as not all of us have money to waste on countless products

if you dont like what i post, maybe its an idea to not read my threads ?? :spam::thumb::wave:


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## F17BAD

Here are some pics, the second picture is a orange colour due to sodium lighting



















Think you will agree this looks terrible, the wipes are handy, shame the results on my seats were not what i expected.

Just treated them with Gliptone which looks to have removed the streaking/marks left by the wipes.


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## zetec_paul

Photo's dont lie.

I'm no leather expert and tried the DR wipes on my Range Rover and really did think they where brilliant but it was also my first ever leather product so nothing to compare to.

My only concern was when i asked DR Leather about applying a sealent or protector he wasn't sure what product to use etc

Would of thought somebody selling this stuff might have more knowledge and tried most of the products on the market to see what would add to the Dr Wipes.

F17bad - What gliptone products do you use? any links to where to buy.

Thanks


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## F17BAD

i use the Gliptone Liquid Leather Conditioner, they also do a Gentle cleaner too, you can buy them together, fantastic product and smell like real leather!

Conditioner is GT11
Cleaner is GT12

Here they are:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Gliptone-Liqu...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4cf161ceff


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## big ben

really suprised they have left them marks. The wipes are the best leather product i have used, left mine perfect and left a really nice smell that im addicted to now...

Nice seats as well BTW, they would look nice in my Corrado


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## zetec_paul

Did you wipe the seats down with a MF once cleaned?


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## F17BAD

zetec_paul said:


> Did you wipe the seats down with a MF once cleaned?


I did actually try to wipe over on a second aplication on the rear of the seats and the same results :-(

I followed the instructions per the website:

1. Ensure the seat is free from major soiling or debris. 
2. Open the resealable cap in the lid of the tub. 
3. Pull out a leather wipe, and tear along the perforated section. 
4. Close the resealable cap. 
5. Apply the wipe in a circular motion, turning the wipe regularly. 
6. Once the wipe is too heavily soiled with dirt that it has removed use a new wipe. 
7. Allow the leather to dry naturally for 5 minutes after application. 
8. Final wiping off with a clean cloth is optional, *but not necessary.*

I dont know what they put in these wipes but stuff like Gliptone does not need to be wiped over or anything, maybe the wipes are not so great on ALL leather types ???

Id like Dr Leather to comment on my findings


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## big ben

it looks like the seats were quite dirty, and all you did was wipe the dirt around and then it has dried with these marks. I would definately give them another go. 

Were the wipes quite dirty after?


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## F17BAD

The wipe was as clean when i had finished as what it was when i started, the seats were retrimmed not even 2 years ago by MJ Interiors, and only me and my GF have been in the car, and i never get in it with dirty clothes nor do i use the centre air vents. 

Lets just say this, If they were dirty, the Wipes are even worse, because as i say - their was nothing on the wipe after aplication what so ever, you would think it had not been used.


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## big ben

god knows then mate, await the Doctor himself, maybe he can fill us in?

edit: you got anymore pics of your car?


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## F17BAD

Got some pics in my garage section matey  think you click garage under my avitar pic


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## Dr Leather

Sorry for my late reply but I've just got back from a trip in Europe. 

I am very shocked to see this and in truth I have never had this issue before. What I am wondering is if there is some sort of a reaction to a previously applied cleaner/conditioner. I've sold over 270 buckets of wipes now in the UK and honestly had no issue such as this. We do however need to support you in this issue and I'm happy to help where I can. Firstly I need the full history of the leather so that I can see if anything may have created an interference. As I say I do want to help you - my number is 07988388838 and please try to call me so that we can understand this situation better.

Zetec Paul - With regards to protectants, the reason I didn't suggest any is because I do not believe in them. Simple as that. All they are, well most of them, are low surface energy based auxiliaries such as a fluorocarbon or polyacrylate siloxane. My issue is that they are unlikely to be permanent.

I look forwards to hearing from you. Thanks,

Darryl


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## Strothow

Strothow said:


> Not anything like the expeirence i had, nor the majority here: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=219





F17BAD said:


> view on BH were also agreed by others pal, and im not here to ass kiss or just agree with people, if something does not work how i expect it to, then ill post it up for others to read. Its comments like this that help people decide what products to buy and use as not all of us have money to waste on countless products
> 
> if you dont like what i post, maybe its an idea to not read my threads ?? :spam::thumb::wave:


Was that comment aimed at me???


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## F17BAD

Going to call you now, got all info on my trim.


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## F17BAD

Strothow said:


> Was that comment aimed at me???


No, it was aimed at dennis with his terrible attitude and reply, even called me a ****!! :lol:


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## Goodfella36

I wish you were closer to me Mr bad i would love to have a go myself at those leather seats as i have done alot of leather now with the wipes and never a reaction like that. I know Dr leather does not advocate a protector but with cream seats something is better than nothing so a fluorocarbon based protector is better than nothing just, it needs to be re applied a little more often than people realise to be effective.


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## F17BAD

Just spoke to Darryl on the phone (very nice guy) we have come up with a plan to get to the bottom of this, im sure he will come on here and explain more.


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## Dr Leather

Hi guys,

Well first off it was good to talk with Brad about the issue. Knowing more about the leather used and history I have presented a plan of action to him to see if we can simulate the issue. Once I have the full testing complete I will put up pics and show all of you. It'll be a test that takes a few days as I have to get specific leather and a specific conditioner.

In truth whilst I absolutely hate hearing that there is an issue with our product it is important that we acknowledge them and try to find the root cause so that it can either be fixed or avoided in the future. I would like to say thank you to Brad for sharing his experience because as I have said before without your feedback we cannot improve. 

I'll be back with more info in a few days time after initially sharing it with Brad.

Many thanks,

Darryl


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## judyb

> with cream seats something is better than nothing so a fluorocarbon based protector is better than nothing just, it needs to be re applied a little more often than people realise to be effective.


This is so true protectors are important particularly on pale coloured leathers to help guard against dye transfer etc. No protector at the moment is permanent and they do need reapplication on a regular basis but when they are so easy to apply (a simple spray and wipe) this can be done. Using a protector and a regular clean will definitely help to keep your leather in good condition and prolong its life. Cleaning products on their own will not do this.

Hope this helps


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## Throbber

F17BAD said:


> i use the Gliptone Liquid Leather Conditioner, they also do a Gentle cleaner too, you can buy them together, fantastic product and smell like real leather!
> 
> Conditioner is GT11
> Cleaner is GT12
> 
> Here they are:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Gliptone-Liqu...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4cf161ceff


Thanks for the info.

Does the Gliptone leave a matt finish?

Cheers


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## F17BAD

Throbber said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Does the Gliptone leave a matt finish?
> 
> Cheers


The pictures of mine show it after Gliptone treatment, this is how my leather is as standard so i would say yes, it leaves it matt (when i used the Dr Leather wipes the same finish was also present - apart from this reaction/staining)

i have heard you can water down the gliptone if you wish and this will deffo make sure its a matt finish, but i think its all down to the actual finish your seats are as standard


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## zetec_paul

judyb said:


> This is so true protectors are important particularly on pale coloured leathers to help guard against dye transfer etc. No protector at the moment is permanent and they do need reapplication on a regular basis but when they are so easy to apply (a simple spray and wipe) this can be done. Using a protector and a regular clean will definitely help to keep your leather in good condition and prolong its life. Cleaning products on their own will not do this.
> 
> Hope this helps


Thanks for more information regarding protection this is what i was expecting from a cleaning manufactur, Dr Leather i'm not having a go just trying to get as much information regarding leather care and above seems to make sence over just cleaning weekly.


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## Dr Leather

zetec_paul said:


> Thanks for more information regarding protection this is what i was expecting from a cleaning manufactur, Dr Leather i'm not having a go just trying to get as much information regarding leather care and above seems to make sence over just cleaning weekly.


Zetec_Paul - no problem - in fact I know most of the protectants and their mechanisms of chemistry and I still do not advocate them in a post-topical treatment. As I said my comments relate to the durability of the treatments, then ensuring that the products actually activate to give full protection and the costs involved of repeated application. JudyB correctly states that it is a constant requirement to re-apply. The other point to consider is where are the rubbed off low surface energy compounds going????

Anyway tomorrow I am speaking to the Technical Director of Bridge of Weir leather who is the supplier of the leather in question in this thread. Also the Gliptone 11 product has been bought from the noted e-bay seller and we will be trialling this later in the week.

More results to follow.

Rgds,

Darryl


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## judyb

The photos show that topical applications do work if the right products are used. They do need applying on a regular basis (depending on colour, finish etc.) but as only a small amount of product is used the costs are not high compared to replacement or repair of seats once they are damaged.










The products are formulated specifically for protection purposes and they are not added as additions to other products which makes them the most effective protectors there are. They do not come off on clothing etc. but need reapplying every few deep cleans as they do wear off with cleaning and use.

Hope this helps


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## chillly

Nice to see a Thread where people can post and ask honest thoughts and questions on any product. And it all gets sorted nicely. :thumb:


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## Dr Leather

JudyB - what leather is that in your picture??? It looks as though it is an unfinished (aniline) leather showing the 3M or Teflon spot test results of fluorocarbon treatments (the test where water and oil based liquids are assembled in order of wetting power). If it is, then just press the droplet on the right hand side picture and you'll see how FC treatments are very weak against pressure related forces. It'll wet fairly easily then. 

If it is a picture of an aniline leather then does not really represent the situation with the leather as finished in auto leathers these days.

With regard to not coming off on clothing..... in truth that is why the chemistry was changed significantly in recent years because it was found FC compounds were in the blood stream of kids who were crawling on post treated FC treated carpets. The water based versions do react to the fibre structure, but really I do not believe that they effectively fix to a finished leather unless cross-linked or reacted with high heat.

Awaiting your response. Rgds,

Darryl


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## judyb

The pictures are as you rightly state on crust (aniline dyed) leather as this is the only one that will show up the test results correctly. A crust leather is the only way to truly test the product as this has the most consistent 'finish'. 

When pressed the droplet on the right does not wet any more than it does in the picture because the protector is such a good one. We test many protectors in this way and some we have tested actually make the leather more porous (particualarly one loved well by the detailing industry).

The same protector works well on finished leather (as in todays automotive industry) and is tested rigorously by the factory but photo evidence will not show how they work as well as these pictures do so that people can understand. In the case of finished leather the protector actually protects the finish from dirt and abrassion. We have worked with protectors on leather for long enough with producers and with the cleaning and service industries to know that they have a beneficial effect and make the leather coatings last longer.

It is true that FC protectors on carpets were banned but technology has moved on from those days. These protectors fix well to finishes (as they cannot pentrate the fibres as in fabric protectors) that is what they are designed to do. 

Heating the protector to dry it has been noted to improve its perfomance.

Hope this helps

Judyb


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## Dr Leather

If it is as good as you say then I want to try it as I have other applications for it. Which product is it and I will purchase some from you.

What number liquid was that in the test??? was it the water or the hydrocarbon???

Thanks,

Darryl


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## Chufster

I used my Dr Leather wipes for the first time today. Received the sample packs on Monday morning after paying on Friday afternoon and they were posted on Saturday. Great service. :thumb:

As for cleaning power, the seats were not really dirty, so can't comment on how they would handle really dirty seats, but they have left the seats looking lovely. Much more matt and natural than before, as the dealer had obviously used something that glossed them up like they had boot polish on them. The steering wheel is lovely and tactile now were as it was quite smooth and slippery beforehand.

I'll definitely be buying a full pack when the samples run out.


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## F17BAD

Turned out to be a great post so far this whole thread (apart from dennis leaving daft reply)

Look forward to the results from Darryl and hope to get this sorted out 

P.S the reaction on my seats has gone after Gliptone treatment, but after speaking with not only Darryl, but also MJ who did my retrim, i doubt ill be using any conditioners on my trim again. hope to be able to use the wipes as they are very handy


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## MSD1540

I've used my Dr Leather wipes today and found them great as per my post: -
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=201671


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## zetec_paul

F17BAD said:


> Turned out to be a great post so far this whole thread (apart from dennis leaving daft reply)
> 
> Look forward to the results from Darryl and hope to get this sorted out
> 
> P.S the reaction on my seats has gone after Gliptone treatment, but after speaking with not only Darryl, but also MJ who did my retrim, i doubt ill be using any conditioners on my trim again. hope to be able to use the wipes as they are very handy


Why not using conditioners anymore? is this the Gliptone conditioner?


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## F17BAD

zetec_paul said:


> Why not using conditioners anymore? is this the Gliptone conditioner?[/QUOT]
> 
> In a nutshell, iv been told i dont need it on my type leather - that said the Gliptone stuff was/is always great and i never had a issue with it, ill hang onto it just in case


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## judyb

Just to clarify: the tests on protector that I used in the photos were done on tanned cow hide crust leather and not sheepskin leather as has been incorrectly reported elsewhere. The tests have to be done on this type of leather so that the test results show correctly and products can be compared as finishes on leather vary so enormously.

Hope this helps


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## Dr Leather

I have updated our research into this issue in our sponsored section:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=2609593#post2609593

JudyB - I'm still waiting for the number of the hydrocarbon solution used in your marketing picture or is it one of the water ones??? I'm serious because if you do have technology that is better than ours then I do want to look at using it.


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## chillly

Dr Leather great to see you follow through with your part in this matter. Credit where its due :thumb:


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## F17BAD

Massive thanks goes out to Darryl for his hard work on this issue

cheers mate

Brad


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## Ducky

Have to mention that's impressive customer service from Dr Leather, it's things like this that help people choose whose products to follow. :thumb:


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## brightspark

Second the customer service from Dr Leather, some of the big companies customer service departments should have a read of this thread and see how it should be done.


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## judyb

Darryl
Happy to speak to you anytime about business - just give us a call.

Cheers
Judyb


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## andee.c

Darryl, would like to try your wipes, are they suitable for the seats on a merc 220 c class 06 ?


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## Dr Leather

Yup - no probs.

Cheers

Dr Leather


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