# IPA vs other panel wipe products



## sm81

There is lot of opinions of this matter. Is IPA good enough cleaner after polishing and before LSP or should I use some dedicated panel wipe product like: Carpro Eraser, BH Cleanser fluid etc...

What is your opinion?


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## Rayner

I don't know but wouldn't IPA and panel wipe strip off all polish etc?

Sent from my GT-I9100P using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2


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## Goodfella36

ceedog did ggood review of ipa and eraser

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=236328

I have also tried the blit hamber one that seemed very effective


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## init6

Depends on what you mean by polishing.

Generally speaking:

If machine polishing, then the polish is an abrasive the removes a tiny layer of the top coat of paint. Some contain oils that help lubricate the abrasive. These can fill in minor scratches and marring. Wiping with IPA or other panel wipe product will remove these and leave you with the true result of your polishing effort. If you don't wipe down, the oils will eventually be removed due to weathering and washing and you'll be left with some scratches etc that you could have removed with more polishing.

Hand polishes also have abrasives, but some contain fillers and waxes (or sealants) that are intended to remain in the scratches to improve the looks of the finish. This requires less work than removing all the scratches. IPA (or panel wipe) will remove these fillers etc, and leave a poorer finish. (Well not as good as if you had polished out all of the scratches)

A lot of products do more than one job, so don't really fit into the neat categories we all use.


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## Ebbe J

If you want to be sure, use dedicated automotive painters panel wipe, it removes way more than IPA or most other polish/oil removing detailing products. Not exactly healthy though, to wear a proper mask and nitrile gloves while dealing with it. 

Eraser is nicer to work with than the normal 50/50 IPA mix, but I keep both IPA and Eraser for checking 'drop back' while polishing. 

Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## DJ X-Ray

rayner said:


> I don't know but wouldn't IPA and panel wipe strip off all polish etc?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100P using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2


why would you want polish to stay on after machining??.The shine you see on your bodywork is the paint not polish,there shouldn't be no polish residues left before you apply your lsp, that's why ipa is used.But i use panel wipe which is stronger,i like to see the true condition of the paint before i apply any lsp.If the polish is waterbased,then you can just rinse it off if you want i suppose.


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## DJ X-Ray

sm81 said:


> There is lot of opinions of this matter. Is IPA good enough cleaner after polishing and before LSP or should I use some dedicated panel wipe product like: Carpro Eraser, BH Cleanser fluid etc...
> 
> What is your opinion?


I prefer panel wipe.


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## Rayner

Dj.xray said:


> why would you want polish to stay on after machining??.The shine you see on your bodywork is the paint not polish,there shouldn't be no polish residues left before you apply your lsp, that's why ipa is used.But i use panel wipe which is stronger,i like to see the true condition of the paint before i apply any lsp.If the polish is waterbased,then you can just rinse it off if you want i suppose.


Ah I see what the OP meant now,
sorry I've only done a tiny little bit with machines so never really read into too much detail on the subject. I know that now though thanks! :thumb:


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## Rayner

Ben Gum said:


> Perhaps surprisingly, the term 'polish' tends to indicate more than simply an abrasive cleaner. It is quite possible that the norm is now for a product NOT to be simply this - most I have encountered have very notable filling abilities, glazing, sealing. So in many respects, the use of a panel wipe after this negates many of the beneficial characteristics or the cleanser. Assuming you are not applying a proper nano sealant, these elements will actually add to the final finish after LSP, not detract. The only time when this isn't the case is when you really are trying to get a perfect finish. IMO this is one of the most absurd things to routinely do - it is a great way of taking all the paint off and leaving the vehicle unworkable. By using a milder approach, leaving the fillers/glazes etc. in place then you can have 95% of the look of perfection but removing only a fraction of the paint.
> 
> Oh and in actual fact, most cleansers are actually water based and this provides no guarantee of the ability to rinse only with water. You are right if it is a totally oil free product but this is extremely rare.


Yeah that's what I meant :lol:


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## Alan W

Whilst I am no chemist it's interesting to note that Gtechniq recommend only automotive panel wipe, and not diluted IPA, is used prior to applying Exo. Reading between the lines that tells you something about diluted IPA. 

Alan W


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## init6

And Concours recommend IPA and not panel wipe for Ceramishield

Go Figure.


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## Alan W

init6 said:


> And Concours recommend IPA and not panel wipe for Ceramishield
> 
> Go Figure.


Indeed! :lol:

Bodyshop Automotive Panel Wipe is used prior to painting to ensure all silicones, grease and contaminants etc are fully removed thus ensuring new paint will adhere properly to old paint. In view of this I'd be pretty sure it does a better job than IPA although it is only an educated guess. 

Alan W


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## toni

I've started using 1Z Acrysol. It's a very good silicone remover that also does a good job as a tar remover. It's paint safe, so no worries there.


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## fatdazza

Ben Gum said:


> . The common ingredients in panel wipe are known to also show up in paint strippers...


While this may be true, panel wipe does not strip paint.

It's a bit like saying that drinking grape juice and yeast will get you pi$$ed since they are both common ingredients in wine.


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## tzotzo

Alan W said:


> Whilst I am no chemist it's interesting to note that Gtechniq recommend only automotive panel wipe, and not diluted IPA, is used prior to applying Exo. Reading between the lines that tells you something about diluted IPA.
> 
> Alan W


My guess is that they recommend a panel wipe because IPA doesn't really clean so much. Even undiluted.

I also have found that panel wipe is a tad more luby than IPA.


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## fatdazza

Ben Gum said:


> Unfortunately that is not actually accurate. Try is on some gloss paint in your house and you will see. IPA will be totally ineffective.
> 
> Your analogy doesn't work because grape juice is chemically modified before it becomes wine. Once in the wine it is no longer grape juice.


Quite irrelevant though - I will not be using panel wipe on my gloss paint in my house. I use it on my car, where it does not strip paint.

And, while my analogy may not work in the true scientific sense, I was trying to illustrate that while individual ingredients may perform different functions (and pose different dangers), what is important is the final product. Too often you appear to scaremonger by pointing out the ingredients of products without fairly assessing the final product. That is not good science.


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## -Raven-

fatdazza said:


> Quite irrelevant though - I will not be using panel wipe on my gloss paint in my house. I use it on my car, where it does not strip paint.
> 
> And, while my analogy may not work in the true scientific sense, I was trying to illustrate that while individual ingredients may perform different functions (and pose different dangers), what is important is the final product. Too often you appear to scaremonger by pointing out the ingredients of products without fairly assessing the final product. That is not good science.


Come on man..... although 78% of the air we breathe is nitrogen, nitrogen is an asphyxiant and will kill you!!! :doublesho :lol:


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## fatdazza

Ah but strictly speaking it is not the nitrogen that kills you it is the lack of oxygen! Am I boring you now? .......:lol:


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## MK1Campaign

Panel wipes way better and you don't have to mess about diluting.


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## The Cueball

I just spit on an old MF cloth and wipe the panel.... job done.





:lol:


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## -Raven-

The Cueball said:


> I just spit on an old MF cloth and wipe the panel.... job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:


Ahh, the good old spit shine method!


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## DJ X-Ray

I've never had any problems with panel wipe stripping paint and i've used it on tons of motors.


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## fatdazza

The Cueball said:


> I just spit on an old MF cloth and wipe the panel.... job done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:


You should bottle that spit - there must be money in it:lol:

Just make sure it is not caustic - Ben Gum wil be on your case


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## fatdazza

Ben Gum said:


> Here I am telling you that non-polar solvents (long chain hydrocarbons) are more dangerous to an organic based coating (which is fundamentally a blend of long hydrocarbon chains) than a short chain alcohol with a quite significant polar character. I am not saying it will strip the paint, I am simply saying that it is fundamentally more aggressive towards it. Once more we have simple fact. No argument about other additives is going to change this.


All well and true, but the safer IPA will not achieve the outcome, and hence the more "dangerous" panel wipe is required.


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## Shinyvec

Just buy the Carpro Eraser as it does the job and is so more plesant to use than Ipa


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## The Cueball

fatdazza said:


> You should bottle that spit - there must be money in it:lol:
> 
> Just make sure it is not caustic - Ben Gum wil be on your case


eh...Cueball's super Slippy Lotion is on it's way! :lol:

:thumb:


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## fatdazza

Shinyvec said:


> Just buy the Carpro Eraser as it does the job and is so more plesant to use than Ipa


I have not used it so don't shoot me down.....

A quick check on the MSDS shows ingredients as

Isopropyl Alcohol < 30% 67-63-0
Dionized water > 60% 7732-18-5
Sodium lauryl ether sulfate 1%-3% 685-34-2
odor additive 1% pro prietary

So apart from the addition of some surfactant and a nice smell, how much better is it that IPA and water?


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## Alan W

Dj.xray said:


> I've never had any problems with panel wipe stripping paint and i've used it on tons of motors.


Ben Gum is not saying that Panel Wipe, as bought, will strip paint. An ingrediant of panel wipe in a much higher proportion may strip paint but not when used in the concentration that appears in Panel Wipe.

Alan W


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## -Raven-

Alan W said:


> Ben Gum is not saying that Panel Wipe, as bought, will strip paint. An ingrediant of panel wipe in a much higher proportion may strip paint but not when used in the concentration that appears in Panel Wipe.
> 
> Alan W


Most are 90% - 100% Naphtha.


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## Shinyvec

fatdazza said:


> I have not used it so don't shoot me down.....
> 
> A quick check on the MSDS shows ingredients as
> 
> Isopropyl Alcohol < 30% 67-63-0
> Dionized water > 60% 7732-18-5
> Sodium lauryl ether sulfate 1%-3% 685-34-2
> odor additive 1% pro prietary
> 
> So apart from the addition of some surfactant and a nice smell, how much better is it that IPA and water?


I just find it nicer to use and there is non of the IPA smells or mixing etc. I also use it on plastics before adding trim protectants and on glass before using Glass Sealents


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## moosh

FYI and chemistry aside I've been using panel wipe for 16 odd years and can 100% vouch it won't strip paint, you could pour it on paint and leave it and it will do nothing because it dries out quickly.

Panel wipe should be used with two lint free clothes, wipe on with one and wipe off with the other because doing it with one is basically spreading around the media that you are trying to remove. :thumb:


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## georgeandpeppa

What s a good panel wipe? Or are they all pretty much the same.


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## Glaschu

georgeandpeppa said:


> What s a good panel wipe? Or are they all pretty much the same.


I've always used the Upol one, mainly because it's what the local paint factor stocks....


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## Alan W

georgeandpeppa said:


> What s a good panel wipe?


Spies Hecker Permaloid 7010 is a good one. 

Best price when I bought was from Metalflake UK. :thumb:

Alan W


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## R2P

Autosmart preptone myself.


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## moosh

PPG panel wipe is the best one I've used and the easiest if there is even a best easiest, they are not all the same though, with all things the better quality/brand the better a product tends to be.

Spies is the more popular one these days as Alan W mention :thumb:


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## georgeandpeppa

£40!! Hum might have a go with the upol one for now, would prefer a litre of the fancy ones but they only seem to come in 5s


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## moosh

georgeandpeppa said:


> £40!! Hum might have a go with the upol one for now, would prefer a litre of the fancy ones but they only seem to come in 5s


Hey try bodyline they also do decent panel wipe, I'll check what I've got in the garage over the weekend and let you know, I might just have some spare :thumb:


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## DJ X-Ray

Alan W said:


> Ben Gum is not saying that Panel Wipe, as bought, will strip paint. An ingrediant of panel wipe in a much higher proportion may strip paint but not when used in the concentration that appears in Panel Wipe.
> 
> Alan W


Actually alan he did say that.In his post on page1 responding to me saying i prefer it he states-this is one of the most absurd things to routinely do.And-it is a great way to take all the paint off and leave the vehicle unworkable.


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## georgeandpeppa

moosh said:


> Hey try bodyline they also do decent panel wipe, I'll check what I've got in the garage over the weekend and let you know, I might just have some spare :thumb:


Funny you saying Bodyline saw it on one of KDS threads, dont think it can be ordered online though? Is it only though brown brothers you can buy it? Any small samples would be much appreicated


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## moosh

georgeandpeppa said:


> Funny you saying Bodyline saw it on one of KDS threads, dont think it can be ordered online though? Is it only though brown brothers you can buy it? Any small samples would be much appreicated


Yeah I'm sure I will have, I have two workshops so if its not at the house it will be out the road, I'll get some sorted out and give you a shout :thumb:


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## georgeandpeppa

moosh said:


> Yeah I'm sure I will have, I have two workshops so if its not at the house it will be out the road, I'll get some sorted out and give you a shout :thumb:


Thanks mate:thumb:


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## mirra_finish

Hi, I've posted this on another thread, but will panel wipe take off Jeffs Werkstat acrylic?

Or most sealants for that matter?

In fact, would panel wipe remove any LSP?


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## -Raven-

mirra_finish said:


> Hi, I've posted this on another thread, but will panel wipe take off Jeffs Werkstat acrylic?
> 
> Or most sealants for that matter?
> 
> In fact, would panel wipe remove any LSP?


Yes
Yes 
Yes

That's what it's made for.....


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## mirra_finish

Thanks Raven!


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## Nally

I like eraser when I wipe down my work before a sealent. To strip the car I wash clay and if ness a bit of Mehts


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## Pezza4u

I've always used IPA mixed 50/50 but I'm thinking I should get some panel wipe really. The ones like Erazer seem to be around the £8-£10 mark (plus p&p) for 500ml but Upol is around £20 delivered for 5 litres. Is this one of the best value panel wipes to get or are there others?

Also can it be used on glass and plastic and I'm assuming this stuff keeps for a long time?


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## TopSport+

I like eraser and i used too wax off'a from autobrite


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## moosh

http://www.kenteurope.com/uk/datasheets/83226.pdf


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