# Unbranded cheaper snow-foam?



## MadOnVaux! (Jun 2, 2008)

Has anyone ever used the cheaper end of the market?

Just that I'm coming up to needing some more, and had a look at what is around....and found some that are cheap on eBay, but aren't the branded gear we are all used to.

For instance:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SNOW-FOAM...edbb08d&pid=100005&rk=5&rkt=6&sd=271641367637

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321661296290?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271641367637?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

and this one seems a steal at £19.99 for 20 litres:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302087672788?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I know it could be false economy, and these may be terrible products that don't actually break-down dirt and grime the way some of the top-end products do, but has anyone any thoughts on the examples above?


----------



## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

And they will probably stain any exterior plastics and rubber, so I would stay clear and just use what you know and what works.


----------



## ashleyman (May 17, 2016)

There's a company called UK Valet Supplies who have loads of different products and are all quite cheap but good quality. The snow-foam isn't as good as the more expensive ones but it definitely does the job of a pre-wash if you get the mix right. 

There website seems to be down right now but keep an eye out.


----------



## MadOnVaux! (Jun 2, 2008)

chongo said:


> And they will probably stain any exterior plastics and rubber, so I would stay clear and just use what you know and what works.


If they say they are PH neutral and/or non caustic then that shouldn't be an issue surely?


----------



## cargainz (Jul 25, 2016)

MadOnVaux! said:


> If they say they are PH neutral and/or non caustic then that shouldn't be an issue surely?


Do you know who you are actually dealing with? Its called MANNOL Active foam and made in Lithuania but they are calling it German. Rather than relying on what they say I would look at independent reviews.

http://mannol.de/imgbank/Image/public/images/bilder_chemie/msds/Activ_Foam_eng.pdf

These are some of the reasons I would never order protein or car products from ebay. I have heard of sellers being abusive on social media and blocking people asking about their products or why they use stock images to promote their goods.


----------



## Hereisphilly (Nov 17, 2014)

Also, it's one thing to say it's pH neutral / non caustic, it's another for it to actually be it....

Sent from my XT1635-02 using Tapatalk


----------



## pepsilol (Aug 18, 2014)

Sounds like it needs to be more expensive to approve of detailers


----------



## Hereisphilly (Nov 17, 2014)

pepsilol said:


> Sounds like it needs to be more expensive to approve of detailers


Nope, just needs to be from a known reputable brand, or at least one who knows the origins of the products and can field questions

Sent from my XT1635-02 using Tapatalk


----------



## dundeepeh (Jun 20, 2013)

I use this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SNOW-FOAM...id=100005&rk=5&rkt=6&mehot=pp&sd=271641367637. I think it's very good and very well priced


----------



## ah234 (Nov 10, 2015)

There are well priced trusted brands like car chem that have awesome products- snow foam is amazing


----------



## Zebra (Dec 2, 2010)

Is there anything here to suit your available funds?

http://www.highdefinitiondetail.co.uk/search?q=snow+foam


----------



## Hereisphilly (Nov 17, 2014)

ah234 said:


> There are well priced trusted brands like car chem that have awesome products- snow foam is amazing


I'll second that

Sent from my XT1635-02 using Tapatalk


----------



## Peter77 (May 29, 2016)

I'm using the pro kleen snow foam at the moment. I find it fine. I've tried many premium brands of snow foam and find most are very similar. The pro kleen stuff is as economical as most, inch or so in the bottom of the bottle as per normal. Foams up nice. Lingers long enough and cleans ok too. It's never effected my LSP. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cargainz (Jul 25, 2016)

pepsilol said:


> Sounds like it needs to be more expensive to approve of detailers


You tell me your favourite household brand and these guys can make one for you, they won't tell you it has high levels of arsenic/lead though (use google translate) http://pic.people.com.cn/n/2015/0720/c1016-27330246.html If they can do this with household goods, car detailing products are a lucrative busines.

Its not the "cost" that's the issue. Its whether what you are buying is what it actually states on the tin and is not going to damage your car. If the goods are made in Lithuania, have been tested and reviewed by detailers and don't cause issues then you can suggest otherwise.


----------



## pepsilol (Aug 18, 2014)

1. "Fake" detailing products is not lucrative at all. The volume isn't there whereas it is for hair products for instance. There is little economies of scale in detailing products, it's too niche.
2. The chemical part of the product is the cheapest part whether it is manufactured in the UK or overseas. The cost is in the branding. Cheaper products look cheaper as their overheads are simply lower due to cheaper branding.


----------



## dundeepeh (Jun 20, 2013)

Well said, did this not start off asking a simple question ??


----------



## Forsh (Jun 13, 2014)

BH Auto Foam (et al) appears to have much better dilution rates and everyone trusts BH to do a job!


----------



## cargainz (Jul 25, 2016)

pepsilol said:


> 1. "Fake" detailing products is not lucrative at all. The volume isn't there whereas it is for hair products for instance. There is little economies of scale in detailing products, it's too niche.
> 2. The chemical part of the product is the cheapest part whether it is manufactured in the UK or overseas. The cost is in the branding. Cheaper products look cheaper as their overheads are simply lower due to cheaper branding.


Fake anything is lucrative (for someone with the wrong intentions) because the £20 you are paying is not the same as spending £20 on a product that is tested, actually does what is says on the tin, is made where it states it is made ... the list goes on. This is why in the UK you have trading standards prosecuting people selling counterfeits.

The fact that they cannot even bother to state the origins on the product and have grammatical errors on their page means I cannot trust their product. I would not be surprised if you asked them on social media some questions and their response matches those recently selling a sealant for £15.


----------



## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

dundeepeh said:


> Well said, did this not start off asking a simple question ??


Yes mate :thumb: it was replied back with a simple answer


----------



## st1965 (Apr 21, 2016)

I use a ph neutal snowfoam from a company called earlybird...i think it was about £35 inc postage for 25 litres and works realy well ( imo ) they have demo vids on youtube for you to see it in use...i know there are better branded products out there but as a pre wash i think its good value for money and never had any problems with it


----------



## ah234 (Nov 10, 2015)

Forsh said:


> BH Auto Foam (et al) appears to have much better dilution rates and everyone trusts BH to do a job!


At £17 for 5L with free delivery from PB also amazing- I know it gets a lot of stick for dilution but 100-150ml in the lance worked a treat for me


----------



## Forsh (Jun 13, 2014)

It get stick for not looking good in photos and not showing a Christmassy scene of thick whiteness but like I said - does the job!


----------



## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

I give it stick because it simply isn't as cheap or economical as people make out like ah234 mentioned once you look past the original cost. Nothing to do with the thickness of the foam.

As per the instructions for the 4% BH claim is required to hit the panel your looking at around 340ml per use which is just madness. It's poor used that way but through a pump sprayer as a pre-wash, much more economical and just as effective. If your using auto foam for me it's the only logical way to use it.


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Brian1612 said:


> I give it stick because it simply isn't as cheap or economical as people make out like ah234 mentioned once you look past the original cost. Nothing to do with the thickness of the foam.
> 
> As per the instructions for the 4% BH claim is required to hit the panel your looking at around 340ml per use which is just madness. It's poor used that way but through a pump sprayer as a pre-wash, much more economical and just as effective. If your using auto foam for me it's the only logical way to use it.


Again you got it wrong , the instructions dont say you have to use it at 4%. BH said 4% will give optimum cleaning power. 
I use it at less than 4% and it is still the best cleaning snow foam.

here is a copy of the instruction, note where it says use 1 part in 100 upto 5 parts in 100. Also note there is no mention of having to use it at 4%:thumb:

http://www.bilthamber.com/media/downloads/Auto-foam_Tec.pdf


----------



## ah234 (Nov 10, 2015)

Even at 2% the cleaning power is just amazing, I haven't used a foam that cleans like it 
My go to in current weather


----------



## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

cheekymonkey said:


> Again you got it wrong , the instructions dont say you have to use it at 4%. BH said 4% will give optimum cleaning power.
> I use it at less than 4% and it is still the best cleaning snow foam.
> 
> here is a copy of the instruction, note where it says use 1 part in 100 upto 5 parts in 100. Also note there is no mention of having to use it at 4%:thumb:
> ...


Straight from the Bilt Hamber website:

"auto-foam is a new generation premium quality, foaming water-based pre wash treatment, designed to soak and saturate soiled vehicle paintwork prior to the application of vehicle shampoo and paint food. auto-foam is gentle too and is for use with all pressure washer foam lances. Applied at a typical PIR (Panel Impact Ratio) of 4%, auto-foam will panel dwell for typically 5 minutes. auto-foam is formulated specifically to offer maximum wetting, it rinses easily too. It is not designed as a superficial high foam product but as a functional material."

4% is the companies typical recommendation for using auto foam and achieving the best from it. Your correct you don't have to follow that but that is what they advise for the product to perform as they designed it. That is what I base my figures on in comparison to other products. Got another foam review coming up from monstershine with their reformulated cyclone snow foam. Only 100ml in the bottle and the cleaning power is impressive. £17.99 for 5L also, look forward to your opinions on that one when I get around to that review cheeky


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Brian1612 said:


> Straight from the Bilt Hamber website:
> 
> "auto-foam is a new generation premium quality, foaming water-based pre wash treatment, designed to soak and saturate soiled vehicle paintwork prior to the application of vehicle shampoo and paint food. auto-foam is gentle too and is for use with all pressure washer foam lances. Applied at a typical PIR (Panel Impact Ratio) of 4%, auto-foam will panel dwell for typically 5 minutes. auto-foam is formulated specifically to offer maximum wetting, it rinses easily too. It is not designed as a superficial high foam product but as a functional material."
> 
> 4% is the companies typical recommendation for using auto foam and achieving the best from it. Your correct you don't have to follow that but that is what they advise for the product to perform as they designed it. That is what I base my figures on in comparison to other products. Got another foam review coming up from monstershine with their reformulated cyclone snow foam. Only 100ml in the bottle and the cleaning power is impressive. £17.99 for 5L also, look forward to your opinions on that one when I get around to that review cheeky


that is not from the instructions, The instructions clearly state you can use it between a 1% to 5% ratio. Have you tried it at less than 4% ?.

Wasnt there a review of monsters snow foam done a few weeks ago. The cleaning power of that one looked poor, is it the same as the one you are doing.


----------



## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

cheekymonkey said:


> that is not from the instructions, The instructions clearly state you can use it between a 1% to 5% ratio. Have you tried it at less than 4% ?.
> 
> Wasnt there a review of monsters snow foam done a few weeks ago. The cleaning power of that one looked poor, is it the same as the one you are doing.


Straight from the directions on the BH website for Auto Foam cheeky. From memory I used 100-150ml of Auto foam topped to 3/4 of the bottle, a while since I used it though as it was replaced with obsession wax blizzard. No idea what that would equate to through a lance but if 340ml is 4% an estimate would be around 1% at the dilution I used it.

It's the same brand of foam but recently reformulated to clean better. I found it impressive even with a faulty pressure washer, expecting better results again with a new PW when it arrives coupled with a new monstershine lance. Think it could be a possible alternative to the people that use Auto foam. Roughly the same price but better dilutions and going off the make up pad test it cleaned very well.


----------



## Forsh (Jun 13, 2014)

The original point I was trying to make was the OPs top ebay link talks about 30%, 50%, 75% and using it neat

kinda makes 1%, 2%, 4% or 5% discussion seem irrelevant 

...and still no guarantee it'll do any where near as good a job


----------



## neilmcl (Mar 26, 2010)

cheekymonkey said:


> that is not from the instructions, The instructions clearly state you can use it between a 1% to 5% ratio. Have you tried it at less than 4% ?.
> 
> Wasnt there a review of monsters snow foam done a few weeks ago. The cleaning power of that one looked poor, is it the same as the one you are doing.


That is from the instructions on their website.

Personally I don't bother it as a traditional snow foam anymore and just use it in a pump sprayer which makes it more than economical and doesn't affect it's cleaning power in the slightest, in fact I'd say it works even better as it doesn't tend to run off as much.


----------



## Leebo310 (Sep 30, 2013)

Forsh said:


> The original point I was trying to make was the OPs top ebay link talks about 30%, 50%, 75% and using it neat
> 
> kinda makes 1%, 2%, 4% or 5% discussion seem irrelevant
> 
> ...and still no guarantee it'll do any where near as good a job


What he said :thumb:

The dilution suggestions on the first foam affect the cost which although may be cheap for 10l, when you break it down per wash it's not actually "cheaper" therefore personally I wouldn't use it. 
They might be great but like Chongo said, they may stain/damage trim so it's up to you whether you want to take that risk. 
Second one, seems ok and is a UK based company but the lack of ratios or anything put me off. Ebay reviews seem ok to be fair but as we know, that doesn't necessarily mean much...
Third one, looks to be aimed more at the bulk valeting side/shift as much stuff as you can with the strongest chemicals available sort of thing.
If you look at their advice for the liquid wax they sell, it doesn't really suggest a high level of detailing knowledge - 
"In situations where your vehicle paintwork is dulled or has been damaged by UV or stained by caustic TRAFFIC FILM REMOVER use standard - T CUT - first"
Again, I wouldn't touch this one either.

As others have mentioned, there so many good ones available receiving good reviews both on here and other social media personally I don't see the need to try out anything from Ebay with a lower upfront cost.

Car Chem is great and pretty cheap for 5 litres but Obsession Wax Blizzard is an absolute bargain given the insane dilution ratios - those two are probably my favourites.


----------



## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

neilmcl said:


> That is from the instructions on their website.
> 
> Personally I don't bother it as a traditional snow foam anymore and just use it in a pump sprayer which makes it more than economical and doesn't affect it's cleaning power in the slightest, in fact I'd say it works even better as it doesn't tend to run off as much.


Definitely agree with this. As a snow foam it's far too expensive but in a pump sprayer it makes much sense!


----------



## DrH (Oct 25, 2015)

Throwing my maths brain into the mix.
Taking the first eBay link and comparing a 30% usage.
Taking Angelwax Fast Foam which cleans really well with a 5l purchase.
Ignoring postage for now.
Taking the amount I use to wash a Ford Focus mk3.
I use 50ml Angelwax with 450ml water
Assume 500ml total liquid required would mean 150ml of SAMs eBay stuff
Cost for the Angelwax 5l is £21.95
You can get 100 washes from 5l
eBay cost is £13.99 for 10l
Rounding you get 67 washes from 10l

So the money shot

Angelwax is 22p per wash
Sam at eBay 21p per wash...... Or more if you need to use a higher percentage


----------



## pepsilol (Aug 18, 2014)

DrH said:


> Throwing my maths brain into the mix.
> Taking the first eBay link and comparing a 30% usage.
> Taking Angelwax Fast Foam which cleans really well with a 5l purchase.
> Ignoring postage for now.
> ...


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Active-Sn...695714?hash=item2821bc88a2:g:oaoAAOSwPCVX9pae

This one seems more for detailers. Ratio is 150ml ish to 1 Litre but they don't have a 5L.


----------



## JoeyJoeJo (Jan 3, 2014)

I love the process of foaming, will continue to do so when I fancy it but my limited experience using BH AF shows no difference in performance between a measured 5% in a pump sprayer or full on foam through a lance.
Sprayer uses significantly less raw product so if economy is the driver, BH AF in a sprayer gets my vote.


----------



## Forsh (Jun 13, 2014)

I wish I hadn't mentioned BH AF now, I'm sure its relative merits are well discussed throughout this forum.

Basically any well respected snow foam around the £20 for 5L mark at the dilution rates already discussed will compete on a cost like for like basis with so-called "cheap" unbranded alternatives according to DrH calculations thumb

Therefore they aren't "cheaper" and as that would be the driving factor to "take the risk" - because there is a risk involved as highlighted by chongo in post #2 thumb - so why would you then take the risk?

I trust that now concludes this thread - thank you and good night!


----------



## MadOnVaux! (Jun 2, 2008)

Ok guys thanks for clearing this up.....i'll be sticking to the brands we know then 

I'll probably get the same stuff I've been using...Valet Pro Snow Foam Combo 2....or I might go for their PH Neutral Snow Foam.


----------



## cargainz (Jul 25, 2016)

I was walking past a used car dealership and they had a 13 plate Mercedes. What struck me was the trim and plastic was faded making it look like it was 10 years old, devaluing the value of the car. 

As Chongo pointed out in Event 2 these "cheap" ebay options can have a hidden bite, so wade carefully in those waters. :driver:


----------



## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

cargainz said:


> I was walking past a used car dealership and they had a 13 plate Mercedes. What struck me was the trim and plastic was faded making it look like it was 10 years old, devaluing the value of the car.


The more recent Audis seem bad for this; I have seen a few where the chrome trim can go a foggy / milky colour, which i put down to it being some sort of plastic material + strong cleaning chemicals being used ?


----------



## ah234 (Nov 10, 2015)

cargainz said:


> I was walking past a used car dealership and they had a 13 plate Mercedes. What struck me was the trim and plastic was faded making it look like it was 10 years old, devaluing the value of the car.
> 
> As Chongo pointed out in Event 2 these "cheap" ebay options can have a hidden bite, so wade carefully in those waters. :driver:


Yeah I wonder how they wash cars :lol:
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=156380


----------



## cargainz (Jul 25, 2016)

ah234 said:


> Yeah I wonder how they wash cars :lol:
> http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=156380


Oh dear, 66 plate car being washed with a broom. Not good! :doublesho:doublesho


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

neilmcl said:


> That is from the instructions on their website.
> 
> Personally I don't bother it as a traditional snow foam anymore and just use it in a pump sprayer which makes it more than economical and doesn't affect it's cleaning power in the slightest, in fact I'd say it works even better as it doesn't tend to run off as much.


I never said it was better through a snow foamer, just that it doesnt have to be used at 4%. The instructions state it can be used between 1% and 5%. that also includes through a pump sprayer :thumb:


----------



## Hereisphilly (Nov 17, 2014)

Ben Gum said:


> Here's the silly thing - there are products, sold by brands which would be well known on here, who will claim something like this when the truth is otherwise. Moreover, several of the most popular snowfoams discussed on here ARE caustic but no one pays any attention to it. Why should caustic matter with a brand you don't know but if you do know the brand you assume it is fine?
> 
> This extends to other areas. Try polling your big brands to see what they mean when they say SiO2... the majority don't know what that even means. I recall arguing with one company about it because their claims were simply impossible.


I've got no issues with caustic snowfoams, I actually prefer them if they clean better providing lsp isn't dramatically affected

Transparency on the properties of the products is important, so there are no nasty surprises, which is the point I'm trying to make

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

JoeyJoeJo said:


> I love the process of foaming, will continue to do so when I fancy it but my limited experience using BH AF shows no difference in performance between a measured 5% in a pump sprayer or full on foam through a lance.
> Sprayer uses significantly less raw product so if economy is the driver, BH AF in a sprayer gets my vote.


The biggest difference a pump sprayer makes is that you can use warm water, which significantly improves the cleaning power of any product, imo.


----------



## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

GleemSpray said:


> The biggest difference a pump sprayer makes is that you can use warm water, which significantly improves the cleaning power of any product, imo.


++ - you only have to think about the difference between doing the dishes in warm vs cold water.


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

steelghost said:


> ++ - you only have to think about the difference between doing the dishes in warm vs cold water.


even better when you use hot water :thumb:


----------



## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

Wouldn't it be great if we could convert a garage into a car sized dishwasher ? Big spinning jet-wash arms on the ceiling and a drainage pit underneath

Park the car inside - close the doors - then put a tablet of concentrated snowfoam into the little slidy tray and push the start button...:lol:


----------



## MadOnVaux! (Jun 2, 2008)

GleemSpray said:


> Wouldn't it be great if we could convert a garage into a car sized dishwasher ? Big spinning jet-wash arms on the ceiling and a drainage pit underneath
> 
> Park the car inside - close the doors - then put a tablet of concentrated snowfoam into the little slidy tray and push the start button...:lol:


Funny you should say that....I'm sure I've seen something similar.....it's like the normal automated car wash, but without the brushes, just soaps the car, then uses a series of high pressure jets all over the car......but I cant find anything now! 

Found something.....This wasn't what I originally saw, but it's a similar idea.


----------



## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

I think, in all seriousness, that automated brushless car washes will be enforced on us all eventually, as they already are in some countries where water is scarce, i believe.

The efficiently used waste water will be collected and filtered and then recycled.

We wont be allowed to throw gallons of dirty chemical water down public drains for ever.

Still, whilst we can ..... :detailer::lol::lol:


----------

