# OCD AT ITS BEST HAHAHA (lots of pics)



## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

Hi all, I know you love my threads haha decided this afternoon to take the wheels off as i havent for a while, while doing this i thought i would clean up the arches / wheels / and paint the hub / disk edge (as they were starting to look a little rough) 

Pretty pleased with the results, couldnt get the wheels 100% perfect but im 99% happy with them! :thumb:

Hope you enjoy the pic, to show you what ive been up to 









































































































































































































before
















after
















































finished front wheel









its a labour sp of love keeping it in near perfect condition and using it every day - but i enjoy it 

thanks for looking!!


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## Detail My Ride (Apr 19, 2006)

You actually need help now...


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

:lol:


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## 1996a6v6 (Feb 8, 2008)

Wow, that looks excellent now, great work :thumb:


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## lanciamug (May 18, 2008)

Please tell me you didn't have your head stuck in the wheel arch with the car only supported on the jack! Please!


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## Serious (Mar 19, 2008)

In words you will understand.................La la la whoop di do.

And for everyone else..... Nice work.


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## ahaydock (Jan 4, 2007)

Looks great :thumb:


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

lol i was careful with the jack!  thanks all!


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## M4D YN (Nov 24, 2007)

thats turned out nice,but do yourself a favour and get a good save trolley jack :speechles


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2006)

Awesomely clean clio as ever nice one


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## Andy M (Apr 7, 2006)

Stunning mate, its details like that which make the difference, ive just done the same except in silver


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Nice job!


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## Dave^ (Mar 22, 2007)

mental!!!

:thumb:


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## mouthyman (May 1, 2006)

great job


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

thanks all for your kind comments!


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## Mars Red Mike (May 28, 2007)

Fantastic work mate as always. Ive actually been doing exactly the same thing that you have today. Front wheels off, painted disc edges and calipers, Jetsealed the springs, dampers, anti-roll bar, wheels (for the 6th time this week!) and so on. Must have been summat in the air today.

mike


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## Mike V (Apr 7, 2007)

Looks pretty good matey. Dont think I have ever seem anyone painting the outside edge of the disk before. Have to say it looks great. Nice and subtle yet smart.


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## Liverpool-Lad (Jun 27, 2006)

Not a good idea painting the face of the disk where the wheel bolts through it.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2008)

I figured he's learn that when he next took his wheels off. Actually wouldn't matter how long it was left to dry. it will still attach to his wheels. Only hope might be to powder-coat them.


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## Cliff (Mar 4, 2007)

Liverpool-Lad said:


> Not a good idea painting the face of the disk where the wheel bolts through it.


I was thinking this!

Nice attention to detail though, looks great :thumb:


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## saxoboy07 (Oct 20, 2007)

Great work:thumb: i always keep my arches and wheels clean to


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2008)

PTAV said:


>


Your Wheelwells, half undercoated, and one looks like a silver paint. In process? -2pts.

And please say you didn't polish/seal that disk.


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## Mr Singh (Apr 4, 2006)

Tyre dressing on the inside walls? The black painted areas look way to glossy almost sticky to me.. Satin would have looked little more like it was standard. 

Admire the effort though


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## Pole Position (Aug 6, 2008)

alot of effort there mate.

tyres look abit greasy tho, what you use on them?


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## Trist (Jun 23, 2006)

Thats once super clean car :thumb: Great job :thumb:


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## sjstrange (Sep 11, 2007)

I would be putting a good bit of copper grease on those hubs or you'll have alot of fun removing the wheels in a few months.


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## Sandro (Mar 16, 2008)

Liverpool-Lad said:


> Not a good idea painting the face of the disk where the wheel bolts through it.


i noticed that too, id be thinking that it woul make the wheels sit ever so slightly wonky?

good job though!


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

lol at ever so slightly wonkey! a lick of paint isnt going to do this! LOL


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## magpieV6 (Jul 29, 2008)

You just had to get another piccy of ur rear end in,didnt you paulene! eh :lol:

Great work bud,luvly :thumb:


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

cheers chick thanks!


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## richie.guy (Apr 10, 2006)

Mr Singh said:


> he black painted areas look way to glossy almost sticky to me.. Satin would have looked little more like it was standard.
> 
> Admire the effort though


I agree...

Why did you miss out the top of the arches:










Behind/around the suspension. Suspension rubbers could do with dressing too.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

not met any women yet then 

good effort but seriously though BUY SOME AXLE STANDS - they might save your life or a serious injury 

NEVER NEVER NEVER work on a car supported only by 1 jack. 1 mechanical failure and thats the end of your arm, head, leg, hand....or whatever else you care to mention...and of course huge damage to the car


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## wrx man (Apr 18, 2008)

"Hi, My name is PTAV and i am an obsessive car detailer " lol

Great work though


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## Kev_mk3 (Sep 10, 2007)

mines on axle stands on the drive waiting mate


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## joe_0_1 (Apr 7, 2007)

Awesome!! Very mint :d


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

thanks all! re not cleaning the top of the arches - you cant see that bit when the car has been lowered - but the only reason it didnt get done is that i ran out of time!  

i know i need to invest in some axles stands and a trolley jack some time! although i mostly just manage and be very careful!


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## Mars Red Mike (May 28, 2007)

PTAV said:


> re not cleaning the top of the arches - you cant see that bit when the car has been lowered


Tut tut tut. You cant be a dedicated OCD one minute and then come out with a statement like that. Just when i thought you were a kindred spirit you go and let me down like that. Just kidding mate. I know what you mean about never having enough time. In the past i have spent all day just detailing the engine bay and still not get done as much as i wanted to.

mike


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

cheers fella!


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## noop (Jan 5, 2007)

Bigpikle said:


> not met any women yet then
> 
> good effort but seriously though BUY SOME AXLE STANDS - they might save your life or a serious injury
> 
> NEVER NEVER NEVER work on a car supported only by 1 jack. 1 mechanical failure and thats the end of your arm, head, leg, hand....or whatever else you care to mention...and of course huge damage to the car


Seconded! Jacks can fail, and can be fatal! A set of 2 tonne axle stands only cost £20 or so from halfords.

For anyone who takes the wheels off regularly to maintain - get the stands and dont take chances!


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## colarado red (Jun 5, 2008)

top job


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## 3dr (Mar 1, 2008)

looks good mate, got to amire your effort :thumb: it'll make all the difference come p/x time!


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## Fursecul (Sep 12, 2006)

Yes indeed my friend...typical symptoms for OCD...im afraid ur doomed 


Cracking job :thumb:


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

thanks all for your comments!!


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## Neil_M (Apr 5, 2007)

Great job, I defo hope to do something similar with some new cars to keep them top totty!

Dont listen to any nit picking though .

But I totally agree with the statements about the axle stands. Jacks fail alot more often than you may think.


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## chris l (Mar 5, 2007)

nice work looks great


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

thanks all!


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## Christian6984 (Dec 20, 2007)

Looks great, but i really wouldnt advise using the renault jack, i carry the trolley jack round in the boot now, the farside front jacking point is a defective point and not always able to take the cars weight and will fold under and bend, so the trolley jack is a good idea (you can take both back wheels off without jacking twice too). i kept my eye on the mk2's for a while afterwards and seen some similar problems (i could presume some that were ok may never have been jacked via reno jack.

Passenger Side, sorry its filthy atm (metal intact with sill line)









Drivers Side (damaged and being pushed back, its that weak that it can be levered into line with a large screw driver) 









Top jop but play it safe and go for a trolley jack, plus avoid damaging a perfect example of a rare 182


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

cheers fella! i take note of peoples thoughts about the trolley jack and stands! (ill borrow my dads) mine do look a little bent in (separated) from holding the weight of the car) i think  might be the plastic sill - anyway all went well but ill take note for future!  thank all!!


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## 11068 (Dec 28, 2007)

Great Job that and I admire your dedication and attention to detail, But if I ever get it that bad I think I'll see a shrink:thumb::thumb:


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

lol ^


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Nice work, bud!! :thumb: Looking mint as always . Echo all comments about the trolley jack and axle stands though. If it makes it any more of an attractive purchace, you could get some stands and spray them inferno! :lol:


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

hey you! was missing your imput!  lol about inferno axle stands!!


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

PTAV said:


> lol at ever so slightly wonkey! a lick of paint isnt going to do this! LOL


Actually mate the wheel hub should be kept super clean and free of rust for this exact reason. It doesn't take much mis-aligment to make a wheel vibrate, a small vibration will just get worse and worse as the wheel bearing gets worn quicker, if rust can cause this I would certainly not be putting paint on there, plus your wheels may get stuck to it. Good job other then that but GET SOME AXLE STANDS, do not ever get under a car without them. Being carefull with the jack will not help you if it fails.


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

just spoken to a chap who know his stuff and these are his comment! which i agree with!


The paint is soft and once the wheel nuts are all torqued up the wheel will sit level. You're talking about such fine tolerances that the wheel casting will be more out than any affect that painting the disc face will create, not including the general movement of the tyre heating/ cooling as they never ever sit dead centre. Hence for the need to balance them, and I think most weights go down to 5g?

I've done the same to one of mine to see what it looked like and it's been fine. Yeah the paint looks thick in the pics, but once it has dried it will be fine. If you're really that worried about it you could always paint upto the edge where the wheel meets the discs hub


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

PTAV said:


> just spoken to a chap who know his stuff and these are his comment! which i agree with!
> 
> The paint is soft and once the wheel nuts are all torqued up the wheel will sit level. You're talking about such fine tolerances that the wheel casting will be more out than any affect that painting the disc face will create, not including the general movement of the tyre heating/ cooling as they never ever sit dead centre. Hence for the need to balance them, and I think most weights go down to 5g?
> 
> I've done the same to one of mine to see what it looked like and it's been fine. Yeah the paint looks thick in the pics, but once it has dried it will be fine. If you're really that worried about it you could always paint upto the edge where the wheel meets the discs hub


TBH I am not worried as I won't be painting mine anytime soon, all I know is that when you take wheels to a proper wheel place for balancing (not kwik fit) the quite often clean the hubs up to make sure that the wheel sits true. If I am being honest you probably won't notice the difference, especially not on the clio but it was just the fact that you said with some conviction that something like paint wouldn't affect it which is wrong because it can.


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## Neil_M (Apr 5, 2007)

Yea thats a good practise measure, as some dirt could have fallen down on the hub after the wheels have been taken off I guess.

I dont see the paint as a big concern though, however I would not paint directly where the wheel touches.


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## CHRIS172CUP (Jan 24, 2007)

working under a renault jack = FAIL
painting your discs = EPIC FAIL


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

^^ very helpful comments not! i didnt paint the disk i painted the hub part and the outer edge! nothing sensible to say keep quite please!!


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## CHRIS172CUP (Jan 24, 2007)

keep quite what?

it's just helpful information that could prevent 1. you losing your legs/arm/head and 2. causing any damage to your braking system and possibly causing them to stop the car. although by the looks of it you don't drive it anyway so no worries there.

otherwise nice clean car mate, keep up the good work.


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## Neil_M (Apr 5, 2007)

PTAV said:


> ^^ very helpful comments not! i didnt paint the disk i painted the hub part and the outer edge! nothing sensible to say keep quite please!!


I wouldnt worry. You didnt paint the face of the disc or the pads, no problems there IMO .


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

chris 172 - i take on board the comments about using a trolly jack and axle stands! but i dont agree about the painting issue! having driven 40 miles or so - still looks great and causing no problems that i painted the edge and the hub! (the only prob it may cause is it may and i say may! stick to the wheel but this will only happen once! and with out painting them this can happen also imo! 

Neil M - cheers fella!i agree!! thanks!


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## richie.guy (Apr 10, 2006)

PTAV said:


> thanks all! re not cleaning the top of the arches - you cant see that bit when the car has been lowered


And you can see the floorpan when the car's on the ground? :lol:


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

LOL ^^ true true! i would have given it a clean but i was worn out by the time i had got to the front!  good point though!!!!


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## Neil_M (Apr 5, 2007)

LOL no excuse, start and do it all again


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

haha! you cant get to those bits when the suspension is down i clean up to what i can reach but thats as far as its goes! if i started doing that id take the engine out for a clean but i think if i did that it woudlnt be running again!


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

If you're going to whip the engine out for cleaning, then get the back seats out at the same time and stuff it in there...da da!! instant mid engined small Renault - would greatly improve the weight distribution :thumb: :lol: :lol:

Only messing Paul


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

haha! i think there called v6's


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

PTAV said:


> haha! i think there called v6's


Well yours would be a Clio I4 then


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

call me thick i dont understand?!


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## Neil_M (Apr 5, 2007)

Inline 4 engine rather than a v6.


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Neil_M said:


> Inline 4 engine rather than a v6.


Yes that's what I meant, thicko! (well you said to call you that, Paul! LOL! Only kidding, mate )


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

oooh lol got you now! thick Paul!


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Wonder if anyone on cliosport has done this conversion - someone must have been mad/brave enough to try it! :lol:


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

i dont think even on cliosport were that silly!  lots of v6 reps with 1.2 engines kicking about though and a few 182 reps out there


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Great work on the Clio, Its hard work keeping a daily runner like this - my 205 GTi had 123,000 miles on it before it went into storage.


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

^^ its very much a labour of love!


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

for all the comments made regards all the down sides of painting the hub and edge of the disk! (could ruin the bearing/make the wheel sit not true la la la a la la i havent found any problems! and ive driven about 100 miles since doing it and all looks as good as the day i painted it


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

PTAV said:


> for all the comments made regards all the down sides of painting the hub and edge of the disk! (could ruin the bearing/make the wheel sit not true la la la a la la i havent found any problems! and ive driven about 100 miles since doing it *and all looks as good as the day i painted it*


Have you had the wheel off again then to check?


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

Pit Viper said:


> Have you had the wheel off again then to check?


dont you start:devil:

what are you telling me is going to happen!?! this i have got to hear?! im all ears!!:wall:


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

PTAV said:


> dont you start:devil:
> 
> what are you telling me is going to happen!?! this i have got to hear?! im all ears!!:wall:


No, you said it 'looks' as good as the day you did it, so when the wheels are on the car, the hubs are covered, so I just wondered if you had them off again following the posts on this thread to have a look, that's all.


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

oh get you now! ill calm down :lol: nope havent took them off! but i know there going to be ok i just know it! ill take one off to prove to you all! after a weeks driving!  i meant the edge of the hub and the edge of the disk Which is the bit you can see!!!!!


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

PTAV said:


> oh get you now! ill calm down :lol: nope havent took them off! but i know there going to be ok i just know it! ill take one off to prove to you all! after a weeks driving!  i meant the edge of the hub and the edge of the disk Which is the bit you can see!!!!!


tbh. I've no problem at all with painting the edge of the hub, or disc bell, whatever you want to term it, or the outer edge of the disc. Seen this done loads of times and it won't affect anything. The only consideration is that the paint is suitable and will withstand the temperatures.


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

cause it will be its hammerite! up to 150c brakes dont get that hot!


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

PTAV said:


> cause it will be its hammerite! up to 150c brakes dont get that hot!


Discs do!


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

i still think it will be ok! people have painted rocker covers with hammerite and had no problems and im sure they will get hotter than disk/brakes etc! and its not the disk i have actually painted! the only problem ive had painting anything was when i tried to spray the cat - now that didnt like it one bit! LOL!


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Brake discs will get way hotter that a rocker cover, but what's the worst that can happen - it will burn off? If so, just buy some very high temp paint designed for the job and do it again - you love tinkering with the car anyway the same as I do, so it wouldn't be a chore 

Just noticed your new avatar - is that your car?


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

yeah thats what i thought! and my car really gets that hot tbh! the odd blast down the motorway mostly b roads!  nope but the same as mine!  new pic - took wheels off tonight all ok! and the paint hasnt affected it at all!  least the paint has stayed on the areas that are seen and i wanted it too!  happy!!!

before









after approx 100 miles


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## HC1001 (May 27, 2007)

I enjoyed reading this thread PTAV and I think I might do mine now after reading/seeing that you have had no probs, how and what did you use to clean the rim of the discs before painting?? Wire brush, Dremel?? I hate the look of rusted disc's around the edges because I wash the car 3 times a week............:thumb:


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

^^ just cleaned it up to the best of my abilty and rubbed it down! i dremel is a bit harsh but if you have one that will be great! i just roughed them up with some sand paper to get rid of any loose flaking paint! 
if you like this you may like this lol

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=1043372#post1043372


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## monkeyboyo (May 16, 2007)

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...y-man-crushed-to-death-by-car-55578-20973652/


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

poor lad not nice reading that - waste of a life (young life) i have a jack and stands now!


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## james_RScos (Mar 13, 2006)

PTAV said:


> poor lad not nice reading that - waste of a life (young life) i have a jack and stands now!


Nice one Paul,

You wont believe the difference it makes to work with proper tools for cleaning under cars, i have :

3 tone Jack
2 axle stands
2 ramps

and i would never not use them when under my car, i have a place in he middle of no where and im often under the car with no one around so these items are a must for me, never cut corners:thumb:

Just on the subject of your brakes i know youve done them now but this stuff is great and looks really good.

CLICKY

You can get it in silver black red most colour and they always keep it in stock i did my rear disc's with it and there still looking good now.

This is how they started










then i wire brushed them down with my angle grinder and wire brush attackment.

and....










Gives it that factory look if you ask me

JD

hope that helps :thumb:


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

i cant see the final picture  thanks James  im hoping hammerite will be ok! 

can see it now!!!


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

so you used the silver paint?!


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

http://safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/images/images-151-200/photo155.jpg


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## SimonVW (Jul 16, 2008)

Hi!

Good effort overall 

Please don't take this the wrong way but I think you (and your advisors) are wrong about the painting of the discs. I am more of a mechanical expert than a detailing one so here is my opinion.....

My main concern is the picture shown of your front disc. These discs are held on by the wheel nuts, except for a small retaining screw. The specified torque of the wheel nuts is important with respect to run out on the disc. Put simply this means the wheel nuts ensure the disc is held true to the inner hub (which also must be kept clean and free from dirt, rust and paint!). The paint on the disc to wheel surface will mean overtime an uneven torque is applied between the road wheel, disc and hub. So what can go wrong....

Best case scenario - you get away with it.

Most likely - you experience juddery brakes or a pulsing brake pedal after a 1500 to a few thousand miles. You will then need put up with it or replace the discs. For reference section three on this link offers some explanation http://www.ebcbrakes.com/troubleshooting.html

Worst case - brake disc failure.

Please understand I am only trying to help and have tried to be constructive and offer an explanation. I know it's not what you wanted to hear.

Best wishes 

Simon


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

there hardly any paint on the hub of the disk now simon as the wheel took it off when i put the wheel back on so this isnt going to cause any brake faliure imo!

as you can see the wheel didnt like the paint so took it off and the wheel does fit flush!

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=82969&page=9


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## SimonVW (Jul 16, 2008)

PTAV said:


> there hardly any paint on the hub of the disk now simon as the wheel took it off when i put the wheel back on so this isnt going to cause any brake faliure imo!
> 
> as you can see the wheel didnt like the paint so took it off and the wheel does fit flush!
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=82969&page=9


Good!  Keeping those surfaces (including inner wheel) clean, smooth, shiney and free of rust, dirt etc etc is much better meachanically speaking.

If you still have doubts you could always write to Renault & show them your pictures and ask their opinion. I will have a virtual pint with you on what they say!

There is a reason OEM manufacturers do not apply coatings to discs! :thumb:

Sorry for cluttering your thread but I hope it stops others making the same mistake.


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

^^ no worries -


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

Cyclo said:


> I figured he'd learn that when he next took his wheels off. Actually wouldn't matter how long it was left to dry, it will still attach to his wheels.





PTAV said:


> there hardly any paint on the hub of the disk now simon as the wheel took it off when i put the wheel back on so this isnt going to cause any brake faliure imo!
> 
> as you can see the wheel didnt like the paint so took it off and the wheel does fit flush!


It's all part of learning. And you've read about someone exactly like you, that thought he knew what he was doing. It's why their called accidents. Even if you have a car up on jacks, the last safety approach is to slide the tire/wheel under the car so if anything should happen. the car will bottom out on the wheel and not smack the ground or you. Consider that up to now, you have been fortunate. It hurts one's pride to have people tell you, you did something wrong, but you have lived to learn a lesson from it and to pass it along.


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## Ian D (Mar 16, 2006)

I have been looking at getting Anodised discs, that wont ever need painting, I think they are EBC ones, not sure though.


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

Cyclo said:


> It's all part of learning. And you've read about someone exactly like you, that thought he knew what he was doing. It's why their called accidents. Even if you have a car up on jacks, the last safety approach is to slide the tire/wheel under the car so if anything should happen. the car will bottom out on the wheel and not smack the ground or you. Consider that up to now, you have been fortunate. It hurts one's pride to have people tell you, you did something wrong, but you have lived to learn a lesson from it and to pass it along.


were have a read about someone like me! the lad on the link that was pasted on here went under the car! (i have never done this) and also putting a wheel under the car imo isnt a good idea! why would i want to mark my wheels?! wood is much more sensible!


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## Dixondmn (Oct 12, 2007)

PTAV said:


> were have a read about someone like me! the lad on the link that was pasted on here went under the car! (i have never done this) and also putting a wheel under the car imo isnt a good idea! why would i want to mark my wheels?! wood is much more sensible!


wood can split.....

ok ok, we could go on for ever couldn't we? everyone has their best practices for DIY, but at least you've sorted out some axle stands and so will anyone else reading this thread.

and i do agree about marking your wheels, however i'd rather shell out a few hundred £ on a new wheel than get crushed by 1.6 tonnes of car.


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

the wood i use woudnt split! ^

id rather not shell out for a new wheel and id rather not put my self in danger - hence i did what i said!


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2008)

PTAV said:


> the wood i use woudnt split! ^
> 
> id rather not shell out for a new wheel and id rather not put my self in danger - hence i did what i said!


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Cyclo said:


>


:doublesho :doublesho Unbelievable!!! Wouldn't an overdose, or slitting his wrists in the bath have been easier, as he's obviously decided 'enough of this cruel world :lol:


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## Refined Detail (Nov 27, 2006)

Great work - looks uber clean!

Was planning to do this to mine ahead of Trax this weekend, but those plans were cut short when I went to remove the wheels to discover that Vauxhall kindly rounded off my locking wheel nut key AND overtightened every nut with the air gun, then deny it when confronted!!


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

thanks fella sorry to hear about you key! hope you get it sorted!!


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Is this bloody thread STILL going??!! :lol: :lol: Ey up, Paul :wave:

EDIT: Just realised I've bumped it. Doh!!!


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## PTAV (Nov 10, 2007)

ha ha ha! 11 pages! i should add some more pictures to create more interest :lol: buts its bloody raining out there! ey up!


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