# Advice needed on insurance repair work



## Dave Spalding (Apr 16, 2008)

Ok so my car, a 2008 Audi RS6 received a light car park bump from a 3rd party who admitted liability. Small scuff on centre of front bumper. 

Took my car for repair and I've collected it today. I'm not thrilled with the paint match to be honest. Although the rest of the car does need a polish the paint looks a bit darker. Now I raised this but the bodyshop started making excuses. Front bumper had a previous poor paint job and was a little darker to begin with. Also the stripped and painted the whole bumper and painted edge to edge on it so it is their match that's off. They are saying they already spent more time than the insure would allow as they shouldn't of painted the whole bumper and were trying to do me a favour by sorting the bad paint. 

I'm still not overly happy and feel it should have been blended to adjacent panels. Now they have taken pictures before showing the paint wasn't great on the bumper. Doni have a leg to stand on complaining to my insurer?


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

Forgetting the alleged previous paint job, the current one is a bad match. It shouldn’t be, so they’ve not done it correctly. If they miscalculated the time/cost, that’s their fault, not yours.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Insurance should put you back in the position you were in prior to the claim. They should not be repairing or repainting stuff not to do with the damage.

If the bumper was poorly painted and not the correct colour then you can't expect it to be perfect on return. You are back to how it was. 

It does sound as if the bodyshop did try to help and did more that they needed. Why have two bodyshops failed to match the colour? 

For a bumper respray I wouldn't want them painting other panels.

Pictures would help here.


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

Were you aware of the ‘previous poor paint job’, or was that a reason/excuse the latest painter gave you? Just to clarify..


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

I'd have to agree. 

They are only there to put the car back to the same condition it was in before the incident. 

Unfortunately no insurance company will cover the time or expense of multiple spray out cards to get a perfect match, especially for a bumper repair. 

So they probably scanned the area and used the best match their paint scheme gave them. 

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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

Bratwurst said:


> Forgetting the alleged previous paint job, the current one is a bad match. It shouldn't be, so they've not done it correctly. If they miscalculated the time/cost, that's their fault, not yours.


Not correct,

Audatex will calculate that cost of the repair, then the insurance engineer will say they want a 20% discount on the labour and another 15% on parts and materials...

Suddenly you've got a small bumper repair which the system has given the cheapest price and the insurance will only cover a certain % of the full cost...

I bet the hire car cost a load more than the repair??

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## Dave Spalding (Apr 16, 2008)

Bratwurst said:


> Were you aware of the 'previous poor paint job', or was that a reason/excuse the latest painter gave you? Just to clarify..


The bumper had been painted previously I'd say. I could see that the finish had a bit more orange peel than oem. However the colour match was better than it currently is. They showed me pictures of blisters on what they claim was the previous paint job very close up pictures so no sense of scale etc. I had never seen these and I hand wash the car weekly so I think I would have noticed so I don't know if they maybe had more than one attempt at painting it and rushed it due to reactions or something.

The car does very clearly to me look like it has had a bumper painted now whereas previously it was less obvious certainly to my eye anyway. My opinion is the car is worse now than pre accident.

I'm aware of things like not making the car better than pre accident. However I previously successfully argued for adjacent panels to be blended and even two headlights to be replaced when only one was damaged on a previous non fault claim on a different vehicle. As replacing only one headlight made it apparent that the vehicle had been damaged and repaired.

I've emailed my insurance and will await a response.


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## Rappy (Oct 2, 2020)

The joys of a mix of materials, I'm afraid.

Pics would be a big help & yes they could have done test cards.

The obvious choice is remove filler cap & get it colour matched. You need to factor in various things. 

New paint vs old. 

Plastic vs Alu vs steel.

Next time you are out & about or take a look on Autotrader. Most cars inc new will be slightly off in colour.


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

Sicskate said:


> Not correct,
> 
> Audatex will calculate that cost of the repair, then the insurance engineer will say they want a 20% discount on the labour and another 15% on parts and materials...
> 
> ...


Interesting. You obvs know this trade, so I'm not arguing, apart from thinking that I don't get this; why should the OP be left unhappy with the painting? He didn't paint it, the painter did, and if the job isn't done well enough, be it due to time constraints, or 'there's not enough money in it for us' type excuse, that's surely between the painter and the insurance to fight out.

The OP has paid the premium to cover himself, and at the end of the day, if the job isn't 'right' then why should he be left unhappy?

I'm not in the trade btw, you probably get that already :lol: I'm just coming at this from a purchasers point of view. He's paid for a service and he's been left with a poor repair. I just don't see why he should lose out.


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## Rappy (Oct 2, 2020)

A few pics of a 2014 RS6 with OEM paint.


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## Rappy (Oct 2, 2020)

Bratwurst said:


> Interesting. You obvs know this trade, so I'm not arguing, apart from thinking that I don't get this; why should the OP be left unhappy with the painting? He didn't paint it, the painter did, and if the job isn't done well enough, be it due to time constraints, or 'there's not enough money in it for us' type excuse, that's surely between the painter and the insurance to fight out.
> 
> The OP has paid the premium to cover himself, and at the end of the day, if the job isn't 'right' then why should he be left unhappy?
> 
> I'm not in the trade btw, you probably get that already :lol: I'm just coming at this from a purchasers point of view. He's paid for a service and he's been left with a poor repair. I just don't see why he should lose out.


Please see the above post with pics . When you starting looking at an issue you have, you realise even OEM is not 100% perfect.

Not saying you couldn't get a better match, but a alu bonnet, plastic bumper & steel wings are always going to look slightly off I'm afraid.


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## Dave Spalding (Apr 16, 2008)

Rappy said:


> Please see the above post with pics . When you starting looking at an issue you have, you realise even OEM is not 100% perfect.
> 
> Not saying you couldn't get a better match, but a alu bonnet, plastic bumper & steel wings are always going to look slightly off I'm afraid.


I have to disagree entirely with this. The rear bumper and quarter panels are a perfect match and are oem as far as I'm aware.

The wings bonnet and doors all match spot on only the newly painted front bumper doesn't match. To my eye it is pretty apparent that the colour has been mixed badly or a wrong variant has been used. I would say it is bluer than the oem colour and the oem has more green to it. It's possibly within blendable range and if it was blended I don't think I would have an issue.


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## Rappy (Oct 2, 2020)

Dave Spalding said:


> I have to disagree entirely with this. The rear bumper and quarter panels are a perfect match and are oem as far as I'm aware.
> 
> The wings bonnet and doors all match spot on only the newly painted front bumper doesn't match. To my eye it is pretty apparent that the colour has been mixed badly or a wrong variant has been used. I would say it is bluer than the oem colour and the oem has more green to it. It's possibly within blendable range and if it was blended I don't think I would have an issue.


Without pictures, it's very, very hard to say 

I'm simply showing OEM can be slightly off.

What colour is the car? Sounds like you have a perl with a mix of colours, and possibly mixed incorrectly.

My suggestion is various test cards. Then look at a colour match to one of the wings, not the bonnet.


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## Dave Spalding (Apr 16, 2008)

It's sepang blue. I'll try get some pictures tomorrow in good light. My intention was to polish the car tomorrow and see how it looked as obviously the fresh paint is very glossy whereas the bonnet etc is swirrled and older paint. I believe original so 14 years old.


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## Rappy (Oct 2, 2020)

Dave Spalding said:


> I would say it is bluer than the oem colour and the oem has more green to it. It's possibly within blendable range and if it was blended I don't think I would have an issue.


Nice colour & with what you have described, I would tend to agree:thumb:


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## Rappy (Oct 2, 2020)

Reminds me.

Grab a brew & have a read of this thread :thumb:

https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=424063


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## Ennoch (Jan 31, 2006)

Dave Spalding said:


> It's possibly within blendable range and if it was blended I don't think I would have an issue.


You'd be amazed at what can be blended by a good painter. Someone else linked to my thread on paint issues earlier but even with totally the wrong colour the good painter managed to blend the bad paint into the driver's wing and I'd be buggered if I could have said where he'd blended to. On the other side of the car with a hard edge it was immediately noticeable by anyone who looked, even people who didn't care about cars or paint!

The problem with repairs on older cars is that insurance companies see them as an old car whereas you see it as your pride and joy. The painter then either has to battle with the insurance company to paint more of it, or take it on the chin that the customer may not be as happy as they could be with the repair. _If_ the existing paint also had issues on the bumper then they would have been in another no-win situation if they blended into it and some of the old paint beneath then began to fail as a result of the chemicals now being applied to it. I know you probably wouldn't be happy paying out more money but either raise it with the insurance company and state that you would like them to authorise blending it into the bonnet and wings or, as you're more likely to have to do, pay the bodyshop some cash to fix it properly to a standard you're happy with.

Unfortunately those of us on here are a very, very small minority of car drivers and thus sometimes you're just never going to get the result you're after unless you come to a personal arrangement with a bodyshop, especially where you're going into it with one issue (existing paint not perfect but a good match) and coming out with another (paint perfect but not a match).


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## Rappy (Oct 2, 2020)

Good advice Ennoch :thumb:

You need to update your thread


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## SamD (Oct 24, 2015)

Unfortunately it's a constant battle with bodyshops and insurance company's these days and for them it's about spending as little as possible.

Although i agree with most of the above posts, knowing you're not going to blend a few spray outs to ensure a better match wouldn't kill them.


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## suds (Apr 27, 2012)

Personally I would have thought that if you stood a 2022 car alongside a 2008 car of the same shade then they would look different. As a private customer I would ask the painter can he use his experience and skills to get the panels to match - and expect a higher bill if it takes him longer. For an insurance job I would push the insurance company to pay the extra, but if refused I would stump up the difference myself just for my own piece of mind. In my limited experience, trades generally do the best job they can for the customer given time and costs restraints.


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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

I'd get a second opinion form another body shop, have u any friends in the trade?

my friend has a body shop an whats quoted above about the costing is right. its a race to the bottom on pricing, think my mate gets a little as £25 a hr from some insurers.

was this body shop the insurance recommended one? you can take it anywhere you want.

the hire car point is a good one too. did u have a hire car? the 3rd party hire car companies charge £160 a day. one of the reason insurance premiums have soared


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## Ennoch (Jan 31, 2006)

Rappy said:


> Good advice Ennoch :thumb:
> 
> You need to update your thread


To be fair there's not been too much to update; the clunk's back but BMW can't hear it, the way you fill up the screen wash is bloody infuriating (what's wrong with a fat neck you can dump a 5l bottle into in 30 seconds?) and the soft touch undertrays don't like being driven in ice and snow. Aside from that I've just been driving it and avoiding pot holes with the stupid low profile tyres. I even had a few nights sleeping in it when we were out climbing over Christmas. The first night I forgot the mat and killed my back, the second night I made no such mistake! I'll update the thread with some snow pics.


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

Apart from that everything’s great :lol::thumb:


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## Dave Spalding (Apr 16, 2008)

Just a quick update. Bodyshop have agreed colour match is wrong now and are going to redo in the correct shade. However they still say the only way to get as good as I want is to blend both wings and the bonnet even with the better match. They won't do this without insurance approval. Which I am waiting on an answer for. 

With regards to hire car, it was probably significantly more expensive than the repair as I had an 850i BMW for 9 days.

It was an approved repairer and actually a place I've used before anyway. But they have really messed up on this occasion I'd say.

I've attached 2 pictures of the car as it stands without rectification work. I'd say they are reasonably representative of the match, although under certain light the bumper is much more red/purple and the rest is more green/blue.


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## Rappy (Oct 2, 2020)

Pics are very helpful.

Prior to any additional work. I would take a good look at the colour match from the wing to door.

In the pictures, it looks a far closer match to the wing vs the bonnet, but this could simply be the light.

On another note, the bonnet colour looks slightly off to the wing. Do you have a PTG?

As I mentioned before, with a mix of materials it's never going to be a 100% match.

If your goal is to keep as much OEM paint, then go to another bodyshop.

While I appreciate there offer, subject to insurance approval. I believe you will be faced with the same issue, but on more panels.

I would be asking for a colur match/ bumper to bonnet, as that seems to be out the most.


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## SamD (Oct 24, 2015)

Don't ask for too much they will just write your car off haha


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## Rappy (Oct 2, 2020)

A pic of a 2015 RS6 I worked on.

Colour match was closer to the bonnet. But off slightly to the wing.

Again, I believed to be OEM


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Dave Spalding said:


> Just a quick update. Bodyshop have agreed colour match is wrong now and are going to redo in the correct shade. However they still say the only way to get as good as I want is to blend both wings and the bonnet even with the better match. They won't do this without insurance approval. Which I am waiting on an answer for.
> 
> With regards to hire car, it was probably significantly more expensive than the repair as I had an 850i BMW for 9 days.
> 
> ...


Attached photos are really low quality. It's always hard to see in any detail. Looking down does look out. From the side it looks good. Better quality images and cleaning the car would help.

You say the only way to get it as good as you want is to paint and blend into the wings and bonnet. Your opening post said the bumper already had a poor repair and wasn't the right colour. The insurance company have to put the car back to the standard it was. You're expecting to be put in a far better position than you were previously.

It's a 14 year old car. It will likely have had paint before or have wear any tear such as paint chips. I doubt the insurance company will pay to blend in all the panels, like Rappy I fear if they do you're going to end up in a worse position than a bumper that doesn't match.


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## Dave Spalding (Apr 16, 2008)

Sorry I should clarify. The statement that the bumper had been painted and was already darker was their excuse not a fact. The bumper had quite a lot of stone chips particularly on the lower edge but the color match was fine. 

The other panels are all oem paint going by PTG. It's actually more noticeable on the wings in my mind although certain light makes it more obvious than others. I'm confident the other shade variation is a lot better match. However almost everyone I've spoken to says the panels should be blended to umensure a seamless repair. 

Yes it's a 14 year old car bur does that mean it shouldn't be repaired properly? 

Paint being OEM isn't my goal. Paint being nice and presentable is my goal and not having a car that has mismatched panels.


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## Dave Spalding (Apr 16, 2008)

See attached picture of colour match prior to incident and repair. 

Not the best picture but you can see a better match.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

The sun is right on the edge of the bonnet. Judging the colour match is impossible. 

Is the lacquer flaking off the headlight washer?

Bumpers are painted off the car from factory. They are nearly always slightly out on colour. 

I would want the bodyshop to paint the bumper and get the colour close. Expecting them to blend into the other panels is too much.


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## Dave Spalding (Apr 16, 2008)

There was a big chip of lacquer off the washer. Not anymore though.


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## Ennoch (Jan 31, 2006)

Dave Spalding said:


> Just a quick update. Bodyshop have agreed colour match is wrong now and are going to redo in the correct shade. However they still say the only way to get as good as I want is to blend both wings and the bonnet even with the better match. They won't do this without insurance approval. Which I am waiting on an answer for.
> 
> With regards to hire car, it was probably significantly more expensive than the repair as I had an 850i BMW for 9 days.
> 
> ...


It's difficult to get colour differences to show up in pictures, especially online, but that looks very different to me and certainly not something I'd be happy with. The problem is that the average person either wouldn't see that, or wouldn't care, and bodyshops often hide behind the 'you'll always see a repair' excuse, which is just that, an excuse. That mis-match isn't a million miles off the difference in the Estoril blue job that was originally messed up on mine and I'm not exaggerating when I say once the good painter got on it the blend was unnoticeable on the panel they got him to blend. A better match and blending into the wings and bonnet should sort that out easily enough. I mean they could do it without re-painting the bumper but you'd always know it was there. The other issue that you'd have had if they hadn't done the whole bumper would have been stone chips under the paint and lacquer which would also have driven you nuts.

I think there are two things you can do; push the insurance company to accept that the paint match isn't good enough and that as it's an expensive car despite being 14 years old it needs to be done right. Push for the authorisation to blend into the bonnet and wings. But, if they don't accept that, then have a word with the bodyshop and find what they would take from you to do it. Given that the insurance company was willing to lay out whatever ridiculous cost it was to give you an 850i for the week I suspect that by speaking to the right person you could get the extra signed off.

Also, get the bodyshop to spray out a test card that you can accept before committing to the re-paint. If they're blending then it's less critical than if they were trying to edge it but you still need to make sure it's in the right spectrum. For the blues I did a bunch of research on, red was the biggest tonal jar for me rather than light/dark. For silvers and greys too light/dark was the biggest issue that jumped out.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Ennoch said:


> Given that the insurance company was willing to lay out whatever ridiculous cost it was to give you an 850i for the week I suspect that by speaking to the right person you could get the extra signed off.


That will be an accident management company providing "like for like" hire, not the Insurers.

The best you will get out of an Insurer is the garage's courtesy car or, if you have additional hire cover, a budget hire car.


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## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

Shiny said:


> That will be an accident management company proving "like for like" hire, not the Insurers.
> 
> The best you will get out of an Insurer is the garage's courtesy car or, if you have additional hire cover, a budget hire car.


Credit Hire is the Devil. Seems nice at the time but invariably comes back to bite…need, impecuniosity, bank statements, savings details, credit card availability. Was about to push the button last year as 3rd party insurer were not responding but the daily rate that was to be charged (from memory £300+ a day) made me baulk. I know they wouldn't have got that rate but still, it just had dispute written all over it. Wherever you can if it's the other party's fault, claim from their insurer who will invariably bend over backwards to keep you happy. Still at the mercy of the repairing garage but even then generally you can pick so some control.


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## Dave Spalding (Apr 16, 2008)

So a quick update. Insurance has approved repainting in a better colour match, colour blended into both front wings and bonnet and those panels fully clear coated.


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## Ennoch (Jan 31, 2006)

Nice one, I'm glad you found a resolution for it, I know first hand how frustrating it can be when the people involved are blanking you and not taking ownership of the issue.


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## Dave Spalding (Apr 16, 2008)

Got the car back today. Colour match is now good and as a bonus I have no stone chips yet. Whole car now needs a good detail and ceramic coat. That's possibly this weekends job.


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## Bratwurst (Jan 23, 2009)

You’ll need to give the fresh paint time to fully cure before you use a coating on it.


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## Dave Spalding (Apr 16, 2008)

Fair point. I'll just give it a wash and polish this weekend.


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