# DW Fan Boys and Cliques



## The Cueball

I thought I would make an observation about DW... these are only my thoughts, and what I see happening... but since I am now getting several PMs every week from people who seem to be seeing the same thing, I thought, I would start a thread and see what the overall thoughts of our community are...

Is DW descending into Fan Boy love ins, and people who, when they get up in the morning are astounded that it gets lighter with day time... i.e. are amazed and shocked at basically nothing...

It seems to me that every new product/range that comes out is 100% amazing, it’s super doper great and nothing else compares... I see this with normal people, and unfortunately with the “official” review team...

Now I know that at least one of these people that used to review products actually worked for the company in question, but I wonder how many others are being giving “gifts” or being coerced into giving great reviews..... Simply put, not everything can be great all of the time... why don’t/can’t we show that on DW?!?!?

Are the people that give reviews, any reviews, unable to be neutral and genuine with their thoughts... do they think that they must show a favourable review to justify the thread, or their place on “the team”, are they really, honestly being neutral???.

Of course lately, If you are big enough to air your honest views on a product, then the Fan boys tumble down on your faster than a cheap tart can pull her knickers off.... oh you can’t use it, you’re an idiot; you’re jealous, etc etc...

If that isn’t enough, they are now starting to move onto other areas of your life.... this has nothing to do with detailing, so why mention it, are you trying to “get one over” the OP, I wonder what the thought process is behind it..and how they connect up xxx product with something you do in your daily life..... I feel rather sorry for them to be honest.... 

Now, thankfully for me, I don’t give a s**t what people say of think of me in real life, never mind a bunch of sad gits on a cleaning forum (of which I include myself btw ) but I appreciate that others may not have skin that is quite as thick as me, hence the purpose of this thread.

I’m not saying we should be all sickly nice to each other, but surely if someone has an issue with a product, then it’s the product and methods etc that should be discussed in a grown up and civilised manner?!?! (I'm pretty sure this used to happen on here )

Personal insults and pathetic attempts to poke fun at people are unbecoming of a forum like this, again IMO...

I understand and totally get that we have some very hard working guys n gals out there that are now starting to produce and or sell their own label products, so maybe this is where a lot of the “passion” is coming from (both from them and their "supporters", but TBH, it’s been sliding now for a long time.

So there.... is there a little clique on DW which means real people outside this small faction of detailing world, with real thoughts, and real life experiences, paid for with their own cash, can’t express what they really think for fear of the pathetic, childish, Fan Boy love from internet hard men coming down on them?!?!?!

:thumb:


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## SarahAnn

I agree Cueball. I've been speaking to several people on here who also agree but i don't know if they will post on here. Hope they do though 

That was one of the reasons why i included on my thread when i tried a new wax and qd that i wasn't a friend of the person so i have no need to say it's good etc as it just looks so obvious sometimes what is happening :wall:

I think the bullying thing is very true too. Makes people like me thing again about commenting if i don't get on with a product but i suppose that's why they make the comments in the first place to shut people up.


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## throwa62start

I can't agree more, I think thats why people, including myself are sometimes a bit weary of posting anything just incase they get 'verbal' from unseen people.. So you'll see more lurkers on the forum reading, than people that post good honest information.


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## empsburna




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## Shug

You're just jealous cueball and have no idea what you are doing.


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## markbob917

i worry that on certain parts of this forum (i say this forum as this amazingly seems to be one of the easiest out there and one less likely to get shot down on but maybe thats the point of the op's thread) youre not allowed to express your own view. especially if youre either new to the forum, or to detailing or new to whatever it is being discussed (i.e. training & fitness, photogrpahy, gaming etc) and just because you dont do things the way someone youve never met or use the products that that same person uses then youre not allowed that opinion you have let alone express it. i have gotten some great advice and tips from this site and will continue to do so but i'll also continue to be wary of commenting on certain posts because i cant be ****ed with the hassle of having my opinion but then maybe i shouldnt....


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## Deano

Cuey, sometimes you make an excellent point and say things bluntly which we all appreciate from time to time. 

However, your thoughts on the official review team are, how can I put this.... total ******!!

Myself and mick run this in our spare time (the same spare time we use to admin this place) and aside from getting to keep the SAMPLE, (note the emphasis on sample) we get absolutely nothing in return for doing reviews. has it never occured to anyone that the products are just good!?! If we did suspect anyone of taking a "back hander" they would be removed from the team, of course that cant happen as myself and mick asign the products to the reviewers. We have even asked people to step down from the team after they have affiliated themselves with a trader or become one themselves. thats how fair we keep it.

As for "fan boys". Anyone is welcome to put forward their opinion on a product as long as it is done respectfully, accurately and in a way that will not leave themselves and DW open to any libelous law. The same goes for any replies to a criticism. However, as we all know, the opinions on a detailing product are very much user orientated. One person might like it, one person might hate it, so there is no real need for anyone to defend their position on a product.


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## PugIain

German car fan bois who think if its not German its **** are really really boring imo.So boring infact I take every opportunity to wind them up.They have no sense of humour 9 times out of 10.
I pretty much post what I like and if folk dont like it they can stuff it.Everyones entitled to their own opinion even if its not what the "rest of the herd" think.


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## Deano

IN FACT!!!

if i get the OK from the rest of the lads, i'm going to post up the "charter" form from the review team section. then you cn see what they work to and how much out of our way we go to keep it unbiased.

I am NOT happy about this.


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## The Cueball

Deano said:


> However, your thoughts on the official review team are, how can I put this.... total ******!!
> 
> Myself and mick run this in our spare time (the same spare time we use to admin this place) and aside from getting to keep the SAMPLE, (note the emphasis on sample) we get absolutely nothing in return for doing reviews. has it never occured to anyone that the products are just good!?! If we did suspect anyone of taking a "back hander" they would be removed from the team. We have even asked people to step down from the team after they have affiliated themselves with a trader or become one themselves. thats how fair we keep it.


I'm sure the products are good, but I can't believe everytime, and they all can't be better than what is out there all the time...

I find myself getting tired and a bit suspect of the same "wow" reviews, and this is not just about the offical review team, it's not meant to read that way...It is merely what I see happening....

You are of course welcome to say my thoughts are ****** (as usual  )

This thread was more about people being insulted when they say that they don't like something, or have the guts to say, I don't agree with you....

:thumb:


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## Grizzle

Busy at work then Cueball....


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## bigmc

I agree with a lot of what the OP says tbh, it seems a lot of the time now that if you're not using the newest product to ride the "greatest ever" wave you're not in any more. 
You can see the local lads who know each other personally and not just from here are cliquey but that's bound to happen so either ignore it or be man enough to make your own decisions and opinions.


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## SarahAnn

The Cueball said:


> This thread was more about people being insulted when they say that they don't like something, or have the gts to say, I don't agree with you....
> 
> :thumb:


I read it more like that Cueball for people like me who have just been told i only didnt like something because i didnt get a free pot of wax :lol:

I'm surprised the threads are allowed to go on and on where people are 'reviewing' things or just blatantly advertising things when they are working with/for the manufacturer


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## Deano

The Cueball said:


> I'm sure the products are good, but I can't believe everytime, and they all can't be better than what is out there all the time...
> 
> I find myself getting tired and a bit suspect of the same "wow" reviews, and this is not just about the offical review team, it's not meant to read that way...It is merely what I see happening....
> 
> You are of course welcome to say my thoughts are ****** (as usual  )
> 
> This thread was more about people being insulted when they say that they don't like something, or have the gts to say, I don't agree with you....
> 
> :thumb:


Well going from the mention of the official review team, you can understand why I've got a face on. 
A product gets a rating based on how it performs on its own, we don't compare it to anything else, so any rating is reflected in that way. If a product isn't up to scratch, it will be called out. Manufacturers aren't daft, they will make/ acquire the best products they can as they know if they offer it up for review and we knock it, it will have an adverse effect on their target audience (DW members). The last couple of wax reviews we have declined to give a rating to as we haven't ascertained its durability. What more can we do?

You are all welcome to your opinions on DW as long as they are put across in accordance with the site rules, and we like to keep it friendly and indeed, we consider a lot of you as friends. BUT. The integrity of the team is not something to question. We all do everything for free, in our spare time and we do it for you.

If anyone thinks that we are on the take. The door is that way >>>>>


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## MidlandsCarCare

What if something new out actually is better than the competition at a particular price point though? I agree with your points to an extent, but it suggests that nothing can ever be bettered. Polishes in particular are constantly being changed recently - I'm very glad I believed the 'hype' around Scholl, as I'd still be struggling with Megs 83. Things do move on.

Ultimately, only the products and ranges which are actually good are going to stand the test of time. I constantly buy everything new out and assess it and look to replace anything in my range where possible. I also factor in price to an extent - so I've stuck with AutoSmart bulk chemicals for an APC, Wheel Cleaner and Tar Remover as nothing touches them for performance and value. Zaino is another great example, I always go back to it and it'll always have a place in my collection as it does its job well, has for years and is well priced. For long life sealants I use Optimum as I believe it's the best performing despite the 'hype' around the other options at the moment.

I remain unbiased as I don't resell any products and have no ties to any particular companies. However, what we are seeing a lot of lately is 'impartial' reviews from companies who actually do resell for particular brands, so 'pimping' a particular range benefits them financially. This to me is underhand to an extent, but again we must be careful to not assume something actually does perform well.

Things are becoming far more commercial than they ever have...


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## MarkSmith

The Cueball said:


> It seems to me that every new product/range that comes out is 100% amazing, it's super doper great and nothing else compares... I see this with normal people, and unfortunately with the "official" review team...
> 
> Now I know that at least one of these people that used to review products actually worked for the company in question, but I wonder *how many others are being giving "gifts" or being coerced into giving great reviews.*.... Simply put, not everything can be great all of the time... why don't/can't we show that on DW?!?!?


I think this is probably one of the worst insults I have ever read on here 

To imply that the Review Team are being "bribed" ( as thats basically what you are saying ) into giving good reviews is just, well, WRONG and pretty out of order.

And am I classed as a "DW Fan Boy" just because I have been saying lately how much I love AF and CCC products that I have tried ???

I agree with some of what you say Cueball, about sometimes people are weary about putting posts up that may make them end up getting stick for it ( a bit like this post I am putting up now, I will probably get stick for it from you ! ) but at the same time your opening post icould now make people weary about putting posts up saying how much they like a product in case they suddenly get branded a "Fan Boy"

I say I like a product because I like it. I say I dont like a product if I dont, and I personally feel that the majority of people on here do the same. I dont say I like a product "just" becasue I know the person as in fact, I actually dont know any of the manufacturers on here at all !


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## justina3

MarkSmith said:


> I think this is probably one of the worst insults I have ever read on here
> 
> To imply that the Review Team are being "bribed" ( as thats basically what you are saying ) into giving good reviews is just, well, WRONG and pretty out of order.
> 
> And am I classed as a "DW Fan Boy" just because I have been saying lately how much I love AF and CCC products that I have tried ???
> 
> I agree with some of what you say Cueball, about sometimes people are weary about putting posts up that may make them end up getting stick for it ( a bit like this post I am putting up now, I will probably get stick for it from you ! ) but at the same time your opening post icould now make people weary about putting posts up saying how much they like a product in case they suddenly get branded a "Fan Boy"
> 
> I say I like a product because I like it. I say I dont like a product if I dont, and I personally feel that the majority of people on here do the same. I dont say I like a product "just" becasue I know the person as in fact, I actually dont know any of the manufacturers on here at all !


I read his "insult" as he is wondering i.e. a fair question to be asked of any review he didn't character assassinate anyone he was mealy asking a question and the other point of people not being able to ask questions without being shot down in flames seems to bear fruits already ?


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## Deano

justina3 said:


> I read his "insult" as he is wondering i.e. a fair question to be asked of any review he didn't character assassinate anyone he was mealy asking a question and the other point of people not being able to ask questions without being shot down in flames seems to bear fruits already ?


the insult was implying the review team are on the take. there are hardly any replies to threads in the official review section so it cant be about arguments in there.


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## Leemack

MidlandsCarCare said:


> What if something new out actually is better than the competition at a particular price point though? I agree with your points to an extent, but it suggests that nothing can ever be bettered. Polishes in particular are constantly being changed recently - I'm very glad I believed the 'hype' around Scholl, as I'd still be struggling with Megs 83. Things do move on.
> 
> Ultimately, only the products and ranges which are actually good are going to stand the test of time. I constantly buy everything new out and assess it and look to replace anything in my range where possible. I also factor in price to an extent - so I've stuck with AutoSmart bulk chemicals for an APC, Wheel Cleaner and Tar Remover as nothing touches them for performance and value. Zaino is another great example, I always go back to it and it'll always have a place in my collection as it does its job well, has for years and is well priced. For long life sealants I use Optimum as I believe it's the best performing despite the 'hype' around the other options at the moment.
> 
> I remain unbiased as I don't resell any products and have no ties to any particular companies. However, what we are seeing a lot of lately is 'impartial' reviews from companies who actually do resell for particular brands, so 'pimping' a particular range benefits them financially. This to me is underhand to an extent, but again we must be careful to not assume something actually does perform well.
> 
> Things are becoming far more commercial than they ever have...


Some products have hype, some just do what they say.

Although i agree in part and like you say, they may actually work well. I value my detailers reviews and in fact dave naxton last night told me he doesnt get on with our shampoo which i appreciate as good or bad, feedback is welcome.


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## justina3

sorry deano i didnt read it that way he was asking the word implied is often open to interpretation you read it and took it one way I read it and took it another


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## bmwman

Well, I think that when socialising particularly with new people you must always hold back from conflict and at times just nod your head and be done with it. Everyone has their own opinions and can express them as they wish as long as they are within the rules. 

Of course bullying is a generic term. In my life I have been in circumstances where I have felt bullied. But later on find that this particular person actually talks and behaves in that manner with everybody. You then need to decide whether you accept the person for whom they are or just agree to disagree and remove yourself from that social circle. 

I think this forum had done very well considering the amount of people whom are registered and post regularly. People will always have different views. 

Although OP i do admit there are times when I have noticed people completely and utterly licking the behind of a particular product and company, generating personal reviews and going all out with positive comments etc until they suddenly decided to use another manufacturer. For example and Im generalising here... in fact I wont mention manufacturer names, but I have seen a couple of members here like you and me, not affiliated to the offical DW team whom have followed a particular company for a good 3-5 months and have apparently " decided to use all products from x manufacturer." A month down the line they are opting to use all the products from a different manufacturer. Its on these occasions that I think, hold on a min is this bloke getting regular pats on the back or regular free products or is he just loaded with cash. 

With reviews, I tend to buy a product after listening to the opinions of many not just one reviewer. Ideally wouldn't it be great if manufacturers of products would offer free samples to 20 people lets say per month. This would allow for reviews to be less one sided in my opinion. 

For those who "come out" and say " I brought x product and didn't like it becuase x" only to be abused (generic) for saying so, then again, this is something that falls within the parameters of free expression. If it is deemed that the same posters are regularly battling to stick up for a particular product then this may be a sign that they may not necessarily be acting on free will. Although this cannot be policed without making unfair allegations. 

Sometimes people feel that x product works for them so well that they are obligated to defend it for the sake of their own pride. Having said that I made a statement recently pertaining to Prima Amigo and said I preffered CG EZ Creme because of the deeper wet look. I was kindly informed that this was because the CG product was acrilic based. I wasn't bullied and have not changed my mind. Although I did agree to give the prima product another go. 

Take it as a pinch of salt I say.

A quick edit: I have no issues with the admin reviews, take for instance Micks review on the dj home brew kit. It's detailed and informative and I agree with his opinion on majority, however I've not purchased the product. It may be an idea to remove the " Why you should Buy it section" although a review usually ends with a conclusion. You cant have everything in life.


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## VIPER

Moved into here as it is a detailing related topic after all. Hope nobody minds?


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## bigmc

Concours Car Care said:


> Some products have hype, some just do what they say.


I understand your point Lee, but what about the products that ride all the hype but still don't do what they say? They still seem to be pushed upon everyone inspite of their performance, whereas products that aren't hyped up and do actually work are left in the doldrums.


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## Leemack

Also - When i test a product as i have with some crazy ideas ive had, they turn out to be ****e so they never make it to market. I have sent samples out to a few people and tbh if anyone accuses me of bribing ore making an unfair review then thats up to them to think and if theyre that shallow that they think i need a good review from someone i have financially rewarded then fair enough SADDO

At the end of the day, some people on here no matter what people say talk nothing but good things about certain companies and people who throw stones from their glass houses, well we all know what happened there don't we.

If you don't like a product, say it but say it constructively. I don't see why there is an issue. It's simple.


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## GR33N

I don't personally think anyone on here is on the take, in regards to the reviews section. However I do think, partly from personal experience, that a lot of people don't fully say what they think about a product if it doesn't meet their expectations through fear of a thousand fan boys coming down on them.


Ben


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## Leemack

bigmc said:


> I understand your point Lee, but what about the products that ride all the hype but still don't do what they say? They still seem to be pushed upon everyone inspite of their performance, whereas products that aren't hyped up and do actually work are left in the doldrums.


True - What i mean is, you cant say something is all hype if you havent tried it. And in fact some of the best products dont have the hype :thumb:

My point is you cant say something is great and the other has "hype" unless you have tried the other product. It just winds me up when people say something about a product that theyve never used and slag off the people who have by saying they're causing hype if you get me.

Not referring to anyone in this thread per se but it happens all the time on here.


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## gally

Your post and your "fact-opinion", Cuey is quite frankly hogwash IMO.

You must be pretty bored.It's up to the indivual who purchase things to make up their own mind. 

I don't listen to what any manufacturer or reseller say unless it's advice i'm looking for. There is a conflict of interest there to sell you products. I make up my own mind, free sample or not.

I'm honest and I have integrity that I value, I haven't ever slated products but i've been very honest through my experience with products or friends colleagues who haven't got on with them.

You seem to be tarring the brush in a wise stroke. Seems to have worked though. Well done.


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## RandomlySet

I agree Cuey, there are a lot of fan boys, and people who must have the latest product!

As for the review, as part of the team myself, if I think it's pants, then I'll mark it accordingly! I can't comment how the others do it. 

One of the reviewers wrote a thread the other day about a product he tried, and as I pointed out to him, if it's poor, then let them know (ideally tell the company first).


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## MidlandsCarCare

Concours Car Care said:


> Some products have hype, some just do what they say.
> 
> Although i agree in part and like you say, they may actually work well. I value my detailers reviews and in fact dave naxton last night told me he doesnt get on with our shampoo which i appreciate as good or bad, feedback is welcome.


I didn't mean you specifically btw - lots of companies are running on this way now and it's really clever tbh as its an effective way of reaching a bigger marketing audience. It's even better if you can charge £2400 a year to do it too!! It's a business model employed by those at the very top of this game, and it works.

I personally wouldn't ever want to be tied to one particular brand, as you're potentially not offering the 'best' to your customers - it's nice to be able to pick and choose from what is out there.

Group Tests seem the way forward so that we can see comparable performance, rather than just a picture of a shiny car which is wearing 'x'. However, even these could be 'fixed' to pre-determine the outcome.

I always encourage people to try as many products as possible, in fact it's something I may offer at my unit soon - come try everything out! The samples stuff is a good route too, allowing people to try stuff and keeping costs down.


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## Leemack

MidlandsCarCare said:


> I didn't mean you specifically btw - lots of companies are running on this way now and it's really clever tbh as its an effective way of reaching a bigger marketing audience. It's even better if you can charge £2400 a year to do it too!! It's a business model employed by those at the very top of this game, and it works.
> 
> I personally wouldn't ever want to be tied to one particular brand, as you're potentially not offering the 'best' to your customers - it's nice to be able to pick and choose from what is out there.
> 
> Group Tests seem the way forward so that we can see comparable performance, rather than just a picture of a shiny car which is wearing 'x'. However, even these could be 'fixed' to pre-determine the outcome.
> 
> I always encourage people to try as many products as possible, in fact it's something I may offer at my unit soon - come try everything out! The samples stuff is a good route too, allowing people to try stuff and keeping costs down.


No mate i know

Im trying to type 3 different replies dude. Not taken that way matey :thumb:


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## Leemack

I also would never want anyone affiliated to be exclusive to me. It wouldn't make sense and I in fact still like using other brands stuff for certain jobs 
Im just offering the chance to offer a service to elevate them from their competition because as we know, anything you can offer to be above the compo is a bonus hey?


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## Bratwurst

I'm with you on some points CB, and some I can't say I've ever really thought of TBH.

A very interesting thing it all is anyway.

One point in particular stands out with me, and I can remember a few posts between you and another member which clearly have stuck in your head too. 

I'm positive, and completely believe, the people who run the site do their very best to keep reviews and the review team independent and unbiased. They can't be seen or known to be favouring someone or something.

I do though believe there are people on here who promote or 'big-up' some people's products to the point where suddenly people start believing the hype without even KNOWING for sure how good something is.

I'm a big believer in only recommending something you have actually used in the real world, and likewise, if you recommend something you have HEARD is good, you say at the time that you have only HEARD and not USED.

One thing I have noticed recently (which bmwman above alludes to) is that in some sections, the amount of ar5e being kissed is quite something, and actually cringe-worthy to the point of me thinking "do these people not know the manner in which they type/talk?".

There are defo cliques here and some do seem to be so blinded by what they are 'into' that they can't see past the products. This problem then has everyone else (who just want an honest opinion) TOLD often that it's the best, it's bloody marvellous, i'll never get anything else etc etc.

And yes, this is VERY often stated as FACT, which in-turn makes people feel 'bad' by going against the grain.

Opinions are like ar5eholes, everyone's got one, and they generally all stink. :thumb:

(mine smells of roses as do my wee poopies (that I don't do) :lol:


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## bmwman

Concours Car Care said:


> Also - When i test a product as i have with some crazy ideas ive had, they turn out to be ****e so they never make it to market. I have sent samples out to a few people and tbh if anyone accuses me of bribing ore making an unfair review then thats up to them to think and if theyre that shallow that they think i need a good review from someone i have financially rewarded then fair enough SADDO
> 
> At the end of the day, some people on here no matter what people say talk nothing but good things about certain companies and people who throw stones from their glass houses, well we all know what happened there don't we.
> 
> If you don't like a product, say it but say it constructively. I don't see why there is an issue. It's simple.


Can I ask why you choose to send samples out to just a few select people? Its an open ended question and i dont mean to offend at all. Just want to understand the thinking behind it. As a producer of products dont you think my idea of giving out free monthly or quarterly samples would be fairer. I.e a thread saying fiorst 20 posters get a free sample etc. ?


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## SarahAnn

Wee green mini i like your bit about opinions :lol::lol::lol:


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## markbob917

Concours Car Care said:


> And in fact some of the best products dont have the hype :thumb:
> QUOTE]
> 
> 100% agree here. i remember, not too long ago (not in a glaxy far far away though.....) on another forum (i wont say the name) that all anyone used wheel wise was wonder wheels - hardly got mentioned on here (at that time and still not so much hype now imo) and its soemthing i still go to when in a bind.
> forums are a fickle beast one forum allies itself to one particular way and another forum to another way same with products one forum gives hype to one thing another to a completely different product. but whereas on other forums you would always get shot down if you didnt like a certain car / product / way of doing things you never did on this which is why i came to this forum to begin with, the mods do a great job in making sure that everyone is allowed there opinion, and a much better job than on most other forums - especially car based ones, but i think because the forum world in general people are wary of being flamed they dont bother stating there opinion and either go with the genral flow of the thread or dont comment.
> i think its best in life to go with what you know best and not go with the latest thing because of flashy packaging and i think the review team (or rather from the reviews ive read because i admit i dont read them all, only those that i either use - to see if im doing something different and comparing results, or those of products i have thought about trying) do a great job in sorting the wheat from the chaff. and i only read what they have to say and hardly any comments that follow


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## Leemack

bmwman said:


> Can I ask why you choose to send samples out to just a few select people? Its an open ended question and i dont mean to offend at all. Just want to understand the thinking behind it. As a producer of products dont you think my idea of giving out free monthly or quarterly samples would be fairer. I.e a thread saying fiorst 20 posters get a free sample etc. ?


Samples went out to people who pm'd me asking for them.

Most bought a sample kit from the website so they were actual customers as opposed to selected people


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## The Cueball

MarkSmith said:


> I think this is probably one of the worst insults I have ever read on here
> 
> To imply that the Review Team are being "bribed" ( as thats basically what you are saying ) into giving good reviews is just, well, WRONG and pretty out of order.
> 
> And am I classed as a "DW Fan Boy" just because I have been saying lately how much I love AF and CCC products that I have tried ???


It wasn't an insult or an accusation of any type.. of course I can't stop people taking it that way, everyone is free to feel however they want about comments people make.

My thoughts and comments were merely that, and they are certainly not out of order.

It was a statement, nothing more and nothing less...I do like how you never put in bold my bit about "I wonder"... I am still allowed free thought!?!? 

Saying you like something doesn't make you a fan boy either btw.. 

:thumb:

Well, some very interesting replies... most of which grown up, so thanks for that... just to, once again, point out, this thread was more about people being abused, called names, and generally getting ill-treatment for saying that they don't like a product, by certain people, and or groups of people.

Maybe this old weary forensic accountant is being a bit too clinical and applying real life knowledge and behaviour to a website...

:thumb:


----------



## Spoony

Quite an interesting debate. I'm not really a fanboy as such but I've got more of some manufacturers than other because they do the job I want. Not to say another won't do the job equally well.

Interesting to see people's thoughts on it.


----------



## MarkSmith

The Cueball said:


> It wasn't an insult or an accusation of any type.. of course I can't stop people taking it that way, everyone is free to feel however they want about comments people make.
> 
> My thoughts and comments were merely that, and they are certainly not out of order.
> 
> It was a statement, nothing more and nothing less...I do like how you never put in bold my bit about "I wonder"... I am still allowed free thought!?!?
> 
> Saying you like something doesn't make you a fan boy either btw..
> 
> :thumb:
> 
> :


Fair enough mate, I guess it was just the way you worded it made it sound like it was an insult and maybe I read it wrong.

I have said it before, thats the trouble with typed words on a screen, you can not put any expression to it so sometimes people can take it the wrong way and it can sound like an insult when its not suppose to be an insult.


----------



## VIPER

MarkSmith said:


> I have said it before, thats the trouble with typed words on a screen, you can not put any expression to it


Give over, 'course you can Mark:

Hello :wave:

Hello 

Hello :argie:

(sorry, just interjecting a little light humour ).


----------



## MarkSmith

The Cueball said:


> Well, some very interesting replies... most of which grown up, so thanks for that... just to, once again, point out, this thread was more about people being abused, called names, and generally getting ill-treatment for saying that they don't like a product, by certain people, and or groups of people.
> 
> :thumb:


By the way, I HATE ONR, could not get on with it even though the rest of DW seem to love it !!! :lol:


----------



## MarkSmith

VIPER said:


> Give over, 'course you can Mark:
> 
> Hello :wave:
> 
> Hello
> 
> Hello :argie:
> 
> (sorry, just interjecting a little light humour ).


:lol:

Thats cool :thumb:


----------



## markbob917

VIPER said:


> Give over, 'course you can Mark:
> 
> Hello :wave:
> 
> Hello
> 
> Hello :argie:
> 
> (sorry, just interjecting a little light humour ).


we need more smilies :lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

Off, no we don't

:devil:

:thumb:


----------



## jimmy669966

Some interesting points made.

I agree that the reviews are a bit wet. The ratings should be a lot stricter.

7/10 should be a very good product.
8/10 should be a REALLY good product.
9/10 should be an amazing product.
10/10 should be for something revolutionary that outperforms all others.


Not saying anything underhand is happening but there does tend to be an over enthusiastic trend to overly commend products that are merely fit for purpose.


----------



## Bratwurst

The Cueball said:


> It wasn't an insult or an accusation of any type.. of course I can't stop people taking it that way, everyone is free to feel however they want about comments people make.
> 
> My thoughts and comments were merely that, and they are certainly not out of order.
> 
> It was a statement, nothing more and nothing less...I do like how you never put in bold my bit about "I wonder"... I am still allowed free thought!?!?
> 
> Saying you like something doesn't make you a fan boy either btw..
> 
> :thumb:
> 
> Well, some very interesting replies... most of which grown up, so thanks for that... just to, once again, point out, this thread was more about people being abused, called names, and generally getting ill-treatment for saying that they don't like a product, by certain people, and or groups of people.
> 
> Maybe this old weary forensic accountant is being a bit too clinical and applying real life knowledge and behaviour to a website...
> 
> :thumb:


Just to add - some folk seem to go out of the way to go against some people and the things they say, for no other reason than to contradict them. Whilst sometimes amusing, it's also sometimes tiresome and well, a bit sad really.

Cliques - a force of evil, or a force of good?

I know we all have our friends on here, but come on lads (and lassies) where's the love :argie:


----------



## SarahAnn

Personally, it's the 'ramming it down your throat' thing that i don't like when a person just talks about one manufacturer/friend and we get photos upon photos of products when we could go onto their site if we wanted to and look :thumb: Not any 'official reviews' just trying to sell stuff.

I think it often defeats the object of selling/promoting as it's a big turn off :thumb:


Wee green mini - love you. Is that ok?


----------



## Deano

jimmy669966 said:


> Some interesting points made.
> 
> I agree that the reviews are a bit wet. The ratings should be a lot stricter.
> 
> 7/10 should be a very good product.
> 8/10 should be a REALLY good product.
> 9/10 should be an amazing product.
> 10/10 should be for something revolutionary that outperforms all others.
> 
> Not saying anything underhand is happening but there does tend to be an over enthusiastic trend to overly commend products that are merely fit for purpose.


not many have got 10/10. we'll take the above on board though to see if it can be improved on any.


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

SarahAnn said:


> Personally, it's the 'ramming it down your throat' thing that i don't like when a person just talks about one manufacturer/friend and we get photos upon photos of products when we could go onto their site if we wanted to and look :thumb: Not any 'official reviews' just trying to sell stuff.
> 
> I think it often defeats the object of selling/promoting as it's a big turn off :thumb:
> 
> Wee green mini - love you. Is that ok?


Such as?

What are your thoughts on the 'underhand tactics' of people sending PM's telling people that one product is better than another, or that a product from one seller is identical to another?


----------



## Bratwurst

SarahAnn said:


> Wee green mini - love you. Is that ok?


It most certainly is - straight back at you sweetcheeks :argie:


----------



## SarahAnn

MidlandsCarCare said:


> Such as?
> 
> What are your thoughts on the 'underhand tactics' of people sending PM's telling people that one product is better than another, or that a product from one seller is identical to another?


If that is all people have to talk about over pm, they need to get out more :lol:
People talk openly about certain products being the same as others. There has been few threads on here about that. Don't understand why people would pm when it's said out in the open.


----------



## Deano

MarkSmith said:


> By the way, I HATE ONR, could not get on with it even though the rest of DW seem to love it !!! :lol:


i used to hate ONR......til the cheque cleared. :lol::lol::lol:

]


----------



## MarkSmith

Deano said:


> i used to hate ONR......til the cheque cleared. :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> ]


:lol::lol:


----------



## DetailMyCar

Maybe the Reviews could be scored out of 100... Then if reviewers find one product to be slightly better then one that's already fantastic, they can simply up it a notch to say 92 out of 100 instead of 91 rather then both being 10/10 or 9/10?? 

Only a thought...

I know mainly where Cueball is coming from though, some people simply believe what they're told as soon as they've read more then 1 review of a product (even more so if it's come from a reputable source, i.e Pro Detailer etc) but that's not the fault of the guy promoting it / reviewing it or selling it - It's down to perception.....

We're all guilty of believing things we read without knowing the whole truth ourselves, we probably do it everyday - Jumping to an opinion without knowing the facts is the same thing as loving a product purely based on what you've seen other people do with it. It's a bit like that kid on the Train that got thrown off, most of us all jumped to the conclusion he was in the wrong etc but then you start finding out a bit more about it and see it differently...

Reviewing Detailing products mainly involves Pictures right? This is where the big problem is as with a photo almost any car can look good, especially when people start playing with Photoshop etc to really enhance the gloss.

It makes me laugh when people show a panel of a car "wearing XX wax" and everyone is blown away by the picture saying how fantastic that wax must be..... If you were to take the same picture of the same angle, with the same editing of the pic done I really don't believe it would look ANY different no matter what wax or sealant was applied (even if there was none at all) - The only real way to tell is to see it in person, use it and feel what it's like to use, apply, buff off etc you know?? 

Pics are great in a lot of ways, but they also can hide a hell of a lot and not always give a true (excuse the pun) Reflection of what that really looks like in daylight!


----------



## CM TDI

Just my 2p's worth

Im a relatively new member here and do alot more reading than I do typing (as im sure a large number of people do on here) so I thought it would be benificial for you to have the opinion of someone who stands outside the ring.

I've used motoring/car/hobby related forums for 6+ years now and I have to say that this is the most friendly forum by far that I have ever signed up to.

Usually on other forums you find the odd topic where people are spouting nasty personal comments about an individual they neither know or have ever spoken to in there life. I've come across none of this, in fact quite the opposite.

People giving away products and even going out of their way spending time detailing other peoples car's just for the crack is refreshing and extremelly rare across the forum platform which in theory is complete strangers talking to each other.

Of course your going to get the odd nasty comment but thats human nature which will never be contained, especially not over the internet.

As for products I do agree that the ''hype'' is certainly present. It's a bug thats very easy to be drawn into and im sure some companies owe alot of their sales to whats been said on this site (staged or not I cannot comment on). The Hype is not in the product reviews themselves but in peoples reccomendations to others and in general discussion. This is an extremelly crouded market in terms of product selection which will always cause strong opinions on products that arent actually all that different from each other.

This is probably just repeating what others have said but I think its always good to have an ''outsiders'' point of view which is esentially what I am.

Chris


----------



## The Cueball

CM TDI said:


> I've used motoring/car/hobby related forums for 6+ years now and I have to say that this is the most friendly forum by far that I have ever signed up to.
> 
> People giving away products and even going out of their way spending time detailing other peoples car's just for the crack is refreshing and extremelly rare across the forum platform which in theory is complete strangers talking to each other.


I agree 100% and this was never, ever in question...

DW is a great place to be....

:thumb:


----------



## DE 1981

Cueball, what a brilliant post.

Totally agree with you on every point, less and less im using DW due to the points you raise in your eloquent post.

I quite often think you can only comment or post what suits and if its in anyway controversion or goes against the common thought its swiftly removed.

There are people/companies/detailers/members/whoever that if you dare to mention a negative point based on YOUR own personal experince then its instantly frowned upon, as you say every freeking day there is a product launch that is the new must have product and we are constantly bombarded with threads topics to that tune. 

To me DW has turned into just one big sales pitch/push rather than the DW i first joined.

As said great post Cueball will prob get removed...


----------



## The Cueball

DE 1981 said:


> As said great post Cueball will prob get removed...


Cheers,

I'm sure if we are all able to debate this in a grown up fashion, the mods will be OK with leaving it up...

Mods on here are top notch when you see some other sites! :lol: :argie:

Jeez, we even have Viper trying to crack some jokes...  :lol:

:thumb:


----------



## e32chris

i am new to detailing and use this site to determine what products to buy. some of us cant afford to splash out hundreds of pounds to try stuff that may or may not meet the needs. i know it is often down to the individual whether they get on or not with a product. i may be a bit naive, but trust the reviews i read........now im not so sure. from now on i think i will trust the official review teams opinions and take the rest with a pinch of salt, at least until i have seen 1st hand the results

if it wasnt for detailing world my knowledge would be close to zero

so, thanks to all the genuine honest members for educating me, and to all the others please go elsewhere as you are not wanted on here


----------



## VIPER

DE 1981 said:


> To me DW has turned into just one big sales pitch/push rather than the DW i first joined.
> 
> As said great post Cueball will prob get removed...


If it was going to get removed, do you not think it would have been well before now? Nothing said is anywhere near grounds for removal.

Remember, it's your right to leave the site at anytime you wish


----------



## DE 1981

crossed my mind


----------



## ross-1888

IMO.

i do see what cueball is saying. anyone who slated or says the dont get on with a product usually will get backlash from people who do get on with it, usually the person is blamed for user error, its life and it happens. The point where it becomes personal and ends up a slagging match shouldnt really happen but it is a public forum and these things happen. i buy products based on what people have told me about it if they have used it. if i buy it and dont like it or get on with the product then i fire it up in the sales section, problem solved. 


I raised a point on the forum before with regards to the review section. I feel that there is no base for reviewing a product. I stated that if for instance a review was to be done on an apc then use G101 as a base as most people on here use this. give it a score out of 10 to use as a base. If the product being tested falls short then its scores less. if it knocks the socks off then it scores more. just my opinion. 

I have read some reviews on dw about some products and have bought these products and sometimes the reviews are spot on and other times they are a bit off the mark in my opinion. But again there is always going to be disagreement when peoples opinions are involved. 

I think dw is one of the more friendly forums that i use and the amount of help and advice given to me when i first joined was second to none.


----------



## Bratwurst

What about more group tests when doing reviews?

This would give a much more balanced and fair showing due to a tested product being up against it's competitors rather than looking at it in isolation.

Even random dudes doing their own mini-reviews could do the same thing...


----------



## Deano

DE 1981 said:


> Cueball, what a brilliant post.
> 
> Totally agree with you on every point, less and less im using DW due to the points you raise in your eloquent post.
> 
> I quite often think you can only comment or post what suits and if its in anyway controversion or goes against the common thought its swiftly removed.
> 
> There are people/companies/detailers/members/whoever that if you dare to mention a negative point based on YOUR own personal experince then its instantly frowned upon, as you say every freeking day there is a product launch that is the new must have product and we are constantly bombarded with threads topics to that tune.
> 
> To me DW has turned into just one big sales pitch/push rather than the DW i first joined.
> 
> As said great post Cueball will prob get removed...


I saw this thread the moment it popped up. No one else had read it. If there was any substance to the implication that the review team base their results on how much they get bunged, i could have hard deleted the thread and removed anyones account that had brought it up. thats not how we roll on here. We work damned hard to try and keep everyone happy and sometimes its just not possible. We over analyse EVERY site decision in the admin zone to try and make it fair on everyone.

I also love how some people always have a dig at DW yet turn up every now and then to post something. If you think of Dw as a pub ( yeah yeah i'm doing it again), if you went to it and the ale was naff or you didnt like how it was run. Would you still keep going back?

Also, this thread isn't for suggestions on how the review team is run. Mick and myself look at every variable and the way it is at the moment is a fine balance between many factors. Again, trying in vain to keep everyone happy. We will sift through this to see if we missed anything.


----------



## The Cueball

Cheers Deano...

:thumb:


----------



## Deano

wee_green_mini said:


> What about more group tests when doing reviews?
> 
> This would give a much more balanced and fair showing due to a tested product being up against it's competitors rather than looking at it in isolation.
> 
> Even random dudes doing their own mini-reviews could do the same thing...


We are sending samples of the same stuff to a couple of review team members. The only reason we kind of stopped doing a more mass scale review, is that once one or two reviews were posted, no one took any notice of the further updates from other reviewers so we thought it was a waste of time and product.


----------



## Grizzle

Deano said:


> If you think of Dw as a pub ( yeah yeah i'm doing it again), if you went to it and the ale was naff or you didnt like how it was run. Would you still keep going back?


Not sure all of us would fit in with nearly 52,000 members lol, its an expensive round for Viper :lol:


----------



## Bratwurst

Cool. Fair play. It was just a wee idea I had brewing.


----------



## Bratwurst

52000 and only one loves you grizzy-baby :argie: :lol:


----------



## Deano

wee_green_mini said:


> 52000 and only one loves you grizzy-baby :argie: :lol:


and that's being generous. :lol:

Griz, PM me your addy mate. :thumb:


----------



## wylie coyote

I for one have never thought that the review team are biased - wouldn't that mean that there would be far more reviews of certain manufacturers? In fact, I'm disappointed there aren't more reviews - at least this would give a basis for discussion on some products. Also, remember that the reviews have to cover a broad spectrum of people and abilities - some of us use the term detailer loosly!

As far as certain products being regularly touted as the greatest, surely everyone should take that as an individual's opinion and be mature enough to make up their own mind whether it's fact - by trying the product!:wall:

I believe it's human nature to think that the latest product is going to be the best. This is also a result of the new people registering on DW who perhaps lack the experience of the older members. It seems that too many of the (older) experienced members have been lost - the very types who are going to say Wonder Wheels or Mer have their place...

To a degree, I think threads like this risk alienating the very people we should be trying to keep.:thumb:


----------



## -Raven-

MarkSmith said:


> I think this is probably one of the worst insults I have ever read on here
> 
> To imply that the Review Team are being "bribed" ( as thats basically what you are saying ) into giving good reviews is just, well, WRONG and pretty out of order.
> 
> And am I classed as a "DW Fan Boy" just because I have been saying lately how much I love AF and CCC products that I have tried ???
> 
> I agree with some of what you say Cueball, about sometimes people are weary about putting posts up that may make them end up getting stick for it ( a bit like this post I am putting up now, I will probably get stick for it from you ! ) but at the same time your opening post icould now make people weary about putting posts up saying how much they like a product in case they suddenly get branded a "Fan Boy"
> 
> I say I like a product because I like it. I say I dont like a product if I dont, and I personally feel that the majority of people on here do the same. I dont say I like a product "just" becasue I know the person as in fact, I actually dont know any of the manufacturers on here at all !


not the review team as such, but how many people were given Autofinesse products? A certain unavailable wax?


----------



## Deano

Oh and anyone that thinks this place is corrupt, delete anything controversial etc etc.

You wont want to be put in this years Xmas prize draw i take it?

yeah, thought so. :lol:


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Group tests is the way forward IMO, as the current format relies on the fact that the Reviewer has used a wide enough range of products to form a fair opinion. Comparing 4 different offers at the same time is a much better way of doing it perhaps?


----------



## VIPER

Grizzle said:


> Not sure all of us would fit in with nearly 52,000 members lol, its an expensive round for Viper :lol:


You're not gonna believe this but.......I've only gone and forgot my wallet  :lol:


----------



## Deano

MidlandsCarCare said:


> Group tests is the way forward IMO, as the current format relies on the fact that the Reviewer has used a wide enough range of products to form a fair opinion. Comparing 4 different offers at the same time is a much better way of doing it perhaps?


Russ see my reply a couple of posts up mate. :thumb:


----------



## Bratwurst

wylie coyote said:


> As far as certain products being regularly touted as the greatest, surely everyone should take that as an individual's opinion and be mature enough to make up their own mind whether it's fact - by trying the product!:wall:


That's the very point some of us were trying to counter... there are people here who will swear blind, and TELL you (the buying public looking for recommendations) that this or that is THE BEST out there.

Have you never bought something when people tell you it's great?

I have, and I'm sure the vast majority on here have.

Hobbyists can't just go out and buy everything just to try it, so they depend on word of mouth... unfortunately some of the mouths do the same jobs as bumholes....


----------



## Leemack

Deano said:


> Oh and anyone that thinks this place is corrupt, delete anything controversial etc etc.
> 
> You wont want to be put in this years Xmas prize draw i take it?
> 
> yeah, thought so. :lol:


:lol:

Class avatar - £1000 is too cheap dude


----------



## -Raven-

Deano said:


> Oh and anyone that thinks this place is corrupt, delete anything controversial etc etc.
> 
> You wont want to be put in this years Xmas prize draw i take it?
> 
> yeah, thought so. :lol:


I think you guys are very fair and reasonable. As far as I know I've only ever had one post deleted, and I'm certain that's because John from PB had a sook about something I said about Blackfire sealant.


----------



## VIPER

Concours Car Care said:


> :lol:
> 
> Class avatar - £1000 is too cheap dude


(from) £1k  :lol:


----------



## Nanoman

It's an interesting post with various valid points by various people and some utter crap as well.

Anyone else think Cueball needs a cuddle?


----------



## Bratwurst

Don't know about that, but his fingers will be sore with all the typing from the last few days.

I'd have thought he'd be needing them tonight too  :lol:





Everyone loves a cuddle - group hug anyone? :argie:

Am feelin the love today


----------



## chrisc

Am I a sad get CUEY.Or just a gay loveing sticker fan boy
Hope it's the second one:thumb:


----------



## wylie coyote

wee_green_mini said:


> That's the very point some of us were trying to counter... there are people here who will swear blind, and TELL you (the buying public looking for recommendations) that this or that is THE BEST out there.
> 
> Have you never bought something when people tell you it's great?
> 
> I have, and I'm sure the vast majority on here have.
> 
> Hobbyists can't just go out and buy everything just to try it, so they depend on word of mouth... unfortunately some of the mouths do the same jobs as bumholes....


I'm a hobbyist, and if something was getting good reviews I would go out and buy it - when I need to replace something I've just finished. I wasn't suggesting that people go out and buy a new product every few weeks. Most people will only buy new product when they need it, fancy a change or can afford it. In which case........:tumbleweed:


----------



## Ebbe J

It's great to have it mentioned like this. It's these things that can ruin a good forum. I like the friendly and free nature of DW, but when someone says something that doesn't go with the flow of the hype generated by company owners and their fan-boy crowd, it can get a little heated. 
If the company owners sign up on a detailing forum, they should be aware that people are interested in knowing what they apply to their cars or their customers' cars.. If they don't want those sorts of questions they shouldn't be here. 

DW is generally a great forum, many good and valid opinions are shared on here. But, the forum has changed quite a bit over the last 2-3 years. 

Although every member to some point has ones own agenda, the sorts of input from e.g. Dave KG could sometimes "burst the bubble" of the hype. Not many stick their heads out any longer. The forum was, IMO, more about technique and product performance back then. 


Kind regards,

Ebbe


----------



## The Cueball

Nanoman said:


> Anyone else think Cueball needs a cuddle?


No thanks... 

:thumb:



chrisc said:


> Am I a sad get CUEY.Or just a gay loveing sticker fan boy
> Hope it's the second one:thumb:


Defo the 2nd one for you!!! :doublesho:doublesho:doublesho

:lol:

:thumb:


----------



## 182_Blue

The Cueball said:


> Cheers Deano...
> 
> :thumb:


Hows about you review some products ?


----------



## Deano

Shaun said:


> Hows about you review some products ?


yeah, they pay's great! :lol:


----------



## chrisc

The Cueball said:


> No thanks...
> 
> :thumb:
> 
> Defo the 2nd one for you!!! :doublesho:doublesho:doublesho
> 
> :lol:
> 
> :thumb:


Thanks I'm off now back out on the gay stickerd bike too busy to read.:driver::wave:


----------



## Leemack

VIPER said:


> (from) £1k  :lol:


Argh, thats better then - Im worth more than a grand sheesh


----------



## Leemack

Deano said:


> yeah, they pay's great! :lol:


Send me your paypal Deano - Need to sort that bung (I mean payment) out


----------



## Ronnie

Have to agree with Deno... For personal experiance I have beenfrom the hobbyist side, then joined the ranks of supporter and finally onto manufacturer. Now that i am producing stuff my privledges and access to reviews of other products was immediatly suspended therefore I do not have a sneak peak at whats coming through what other people are doing etc etc which means nobody gets a chance to taint/alter/influence reviews.

When as a reviewer, we were blindly picked to try products or asked who would like to review something if it was a product for a specific application etc. this did not mean you got to do it. Over my time there were several people who were in charge of the section and they all ran a tight ship. 

now as a manufacturer. all I can tell you personaly and I would say most do the same as they would be mad not to.. is that we test the products for a considerable amount of time prior to even releasing them for review, so we have a good idea on how peoducts work and what the review will be. I have had several products reviewed and had no input into what was said or even a chance to "vet" it prior to it being put up in the review section. All you get is a PM saying your product is in the review system! You must remember this is a very niche and small gorup of people and the products have to be as good as you possibly can as a bad product will eventually be found out and you dont want that... to be honest there is no point in releasing a new product if it does not match or beat the competition it is a waste of money and time.

I have to say this is a personal response form my experiance from someone (possibly one of the only members on here who has made a transision through from an individual to professional detailer to reviewer to manufacturer on DW)... I know its looks like a love in but its because the mods do a great job of policing the site so it does not turn into a group of keyboard haters.


mind you I do miss the free flights to America could do with another new free car.. oops was that supposed to be kept secret???


----------



## Bratwurst

wylie coyote said:


> I'm a hobbyist, and if something was getting good reviews I would go out and buy it - when I need to replace something I've just finished. I wasn't suggesting that people go out and buy a new product every few weeks. Most people will only buy new product when they need it, fancy a change or can afford it. In which case........:tumbleweed:


"if something was getting good reviews I would go out and buy it"

That's the thing... when folk who recommend things (when you would think they have actually used, or indeed say they have used) are blinded by a certain make or seller, they can quickly give people the idea that the product is the bee baws, when in-fact it's actually not. They THINK it is and pass that on to everyone else (the buying public, or trying public)

I'm not digging you up on wee things Wylie, I'm just trying to show that fair and true recommendations are a different thing to hype. :thumb:


----------



## The Cueball

Shaun said:


> Hows about you review some products ?


No thanks.

That was not the point of my thread, it's a shame so many have chosen to jump on that bit of my serious post...

I am the opposite of many people on here, I don't get excited about new products, so I would be the wrong person for the role.... all part and parcel of my disease.

Thanks anyway.

:thumb:



Deano said:


> yeah, they pay's great! :lol:


Be careful that The man doth protest too much  :lol:

:thumb:


----------



## CTR De

im pleased to see this thread not getting out of hand like i first expected , i agree with cueball on a lot of his perseptions and also agree that the team do a great job , i know just how much work is involved in running a forum as i play a big part in the running of my car forum and that has only 4000 members 

i think a lot of comment may not be meant as there taken but its hard to know sometimes , i recently posted a reply to a product and included a pic (i like people to see what i am talking about) but got called a "resident pic whore" which i initially took real offence too as out of my hundreds of posts a am not a big pic poster (maybe 20 posts that contained pics in my entire membership here) this comment actually came from a member of the team , after seeing a few more of his posts i now hope that it was meant in a tongue in cheek fashion so all i would say is think before you post a comment that may be taken the wrong way ,

i must say i tend to reply to threads where i agree rather than disagree as its too much hassle having a few members jump on you and accuse you of not using it properly , i have been detailing for many years and know how to follow simple instructions :lol:

this is a great site and i hope it lives forever 

many thanks to all the team and sponsors and as far as testing goes fell free to send me all the products you like for my honest opinion :lol: be very happy to test some divine if you want me to hehe


----------



## bmwman

seems my suggestion is being ignored, no one has an opinion.. let me ask again. (Group Testing)

A manaufacturer should allow once a month/quarter to provide 10-20 samples of their chosen product. Lets say 10. The ten posters (first come first serve) get their samples. To make it fair the mods should provide policies and procedures (rules) pertaining to best practice when reviewing products. The first 2-4 posters are obligated to review the product in line with the rules. The remaining "winners" can choose to review the item if they wish but do not need to abide by the best practice for review rules. Does this make sense to people? Is it worth a go? It ensures the review are always random and allows different people to obtian samples. Rather than those whom use the PM method to get these free samples. I've always felt it rude (morals) to ask for anything for free particularly when those around me are having to buy them, its just not fair but thats my opinion. I have asked traders for free samples but thats with an order usually totalling to over £80. im using one trader regualrly and they are providing me with free samples on some order as a good will gesture but I give them regular work :doublesho


----------



## Deano

Ronnie said:


> Have to agree with Deno... For personal experiance I have beenfrom the hobbyist side, then joined the ranks of supporter and finally onto manufacturer.* Now that i am producing stuff my privledges and access to reviews of other products was immediatly suspended therefore I do not have a sneak peak at whats coming through what other people are doing etc etc which means nobody gets a chance to taint/alter/influence reviews*.
> 
> When as a reviewer, we were blindly picked to try products or asked who would like to review something if it was a product for a specific application etc. this did not mean you got to do it. Over my time there were several people who were in charge of the section and they all ran a tight ship.
> 
> now as a manufacturer. all I can tell you personaly and I would say most do the same as they would be mad not to.. is that we test the products for a considerable amount of time prior to even releasing them for review, so we have a good idea on how peoducts work and what the review will be. I have had several products reviewed and had no input into what was said or even a chance to "vet" it prior to it being put up in the review section. All you get is a PM saying your product is in the review system! You must remember this is a very niche and small gorup of people and the products have to be as good as you possibly can as a bad product will eventually be found out and you dont want that... to be honest there is no point in releasing a new product if it does not match or beat the competition it is a waste of money and time.
> 
> I have to say this is a personal response form my experiance from someone (possibly one of the only members on here who has made a transision through from an individual to professional detailer to reviewer to manufacturer on DW)... I know its looks like a love in but its because the mods do a great job of policing the site so it does not turn into a group of keyboard haters.


Thanks Rollo, I was hoping an "ex" reviewer would put that up.


----------



## Deano

bmwman said:


> seems my suggestion is being ignored, no one has an opinion.. let me ask again. (Group Testing)
> 
> A manaufacturer should allow once a month/quarter to provide 10-20 samples of their chosen product. Lets say 10. The ten posters (first come first serve) get their samples. To make it fair the mods should provide policies and procedures (rules) pertaining to best practice when reviewing products. The first 2-4 posters are obligated to review the product in line with the rules. The remaining "winners" can choose to review the item if they wish but do not need to abide by the best practice for review rules. Does this make sense to people? Is it worth a go? It ensures the review are always random and allows different people to obtian samples. Rather than those whom use the PM method to get these free samples. I've always felt it rude (morals) to ask for anything for free particularly when those around me are having to buy them, its just not fair but thats my opinion. I have asked traders for free samples but thats with an order usually totalling to over £80. im using one trader regualrly and they are providing me with free samples on some order as a good will gesture but I give them regular work :doublesho


if you read back, i answered the group test question and why we no longer do it. We have the review team (as opposed to sending samples out to members) so we can track where the product is and no one is just getting freebies without doing anything.


----------



## kh904

Ok my quick 2p! 

On the whole this forum is great compared to others, and on the whole moderated well & generally friendly.

Imo i do see some 'fanboys' which rave about a certain brand, and periods where certain brands are in the limelight. Now sometimes this is just natural, one person reviews a product or a new product is released & then others jump on it & gives it a go. 
There are unfortunately other occassions where it 'seems' to be a bit more than that and borders & on advertsing.

I don't have any knowledge on the 'official' reviews as i tend not to pop in those threads so i can't comment on them specifically.
But i do notice there are occassions where i an opinion that goes against the majority is often jumped and the person is often ridiculed or 'attacked' (i use that term very loosely). That doesn't just go for reviewing products but on the off-topic section too.

I have posted some threads (i guess you all know :lol which often go against the mainstream ideas, and are an alternative view point with 'reasons' for why i hold my opinion. 
I no means wish that everyone must believe what i say is right, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions based on their own reasons, but sometimes (not all the time) these opinions are vehermently attacked or ridiculed without any constructive criticism. Rather the responses are 'that's a load of rubbish', 'conspiracy nut', 'you spend too much time on the internet & you need to get out more' etc, without a real counter argument on why they disagree.

I've also noticed that certain threads have been deleted or locked for imo no apparent reason - a reason why a thread is deleted or locked would be appreciated (Not directed at any individual) :thumb:

Now i'm a grown man, so it won't really effect me, i'll get on with my life but it shows 'the nail that stands the proudest, is the first one to get hit'!

Sometimes you have to agree to disagree and move on!



Deano said:


> You are all welcome to your opinions on DW as long as they are put across in accordance with the site rules, and we like to keep it friendly and indeed, we consider a lot of you as friends. *BUT. The integrity of the team is not something to question. *We all do everything for free, in our spare time and we do it for you.


I agree with the above and on the whole the team and other forum users do very well.
However i disagree with the bold part, i think everyone has the right to at least question the 'team' if they feel that there is a genuine reason or grievence. To say not to question it is like saying you shouldn't question the Government and they are always right and they do everything in the people's/countries interests (i'm no way saying that you or anyother mods have taken any 'bribes' or anyhing like that whatsoever), but that there's always the POSSIBILITY & any accusations should be backed up.

Once again, this is a great forum, and the mods & other users on the whole are great, even if we don't all agree with each other! 
I also do appreciate the work and effort you mods do, & sometimes it's damned if you do, damned if you don't!

:thumb:


----------



## bmwman

Ronnie said:


> Have to agree with Deno... For personal experiance I have beenfrom the hobbyist side, then joined the ranks of supporter and finally onto manufacturer. Now that i am producing stuff my privledges and access to reviews of other products was immediatly suspended therefore I do not have a sneak peak at whats coming through what other people are doing etc etc which means nobody gets a chance to taint/alter/influence reviews.
> 
> When as a reviewer, we were blindly picked to try products or asked who would like to review something if it was a product for a specific application etc. this did not mean you got to do it. Over my time there were several people who were in charge of the section and they all ran a tight ship.
> 
> now as a manufacturer. all I can tell you personaly and I would say most do the same as they would be mad not to.. is that we test the products for a considerable amount of time prior to even releasing them for review, so we have a good idea on how peoducts work and what the review will be. I have had several products reviewed and had no input into what was said or even a chance to "vet" it prior to it being put up in the review section. All you get is a PM saying your product is in the review system! You must remember this is a very niche and small gorup of people and the products have to be as good as you possibly can as a bad product will eventually be found out and you dont want that... to be honest there is no point in releasing a new product if it does not match or beat the competition it is a waste of money and time.
> 
> I have to say this is a personal response form my experiance from someone (possibly one of the only members on here who has made a transision through from an individual to professional detailer to reviewer to manufacturer on DW)... I know its looks like a love in but its because the mods do a great job of policing the site so it does not turn into a group of keyboard haters.
> 
> mind you I do miss the free flights to America could do with another new free car.. oops was that supposed to be kept secret???


Buit Ronnie who do you allow to review your products? How can I get free samples to review? do I need to talk a manufacturers product up in order to be seen? or do I need to build a personal relationship/friendship with a manuifacturer? Maybe im just being naive.


----------



## wylie coyote

wee_green_mini said:


> "if something was getting good reviews I would go out and buy it"
> 
> That's the thing... when folk who recommend things (when you would think they have actually used, or indeed say they have used) are blinded by a certain make or seller, they can quickly give people the idea that the product is the bee baws, when in-fact it's actually not. They THINK it is and pass that on to everyone else (the buying public, or trying public)
> 
> I'm not digging you up on wee things Wylie, I'm just trying to show that fair and true recommendations are a different thing to hype. :thumb:


No problem with any of your comments.:thumb:

As you say it's difficult to separate hype from fact. I might do this by looking at who it is that is giving the good reviews - someone with 2,000 posts would probably have a bit more credibility in my eyes....

Perhaps the answer is to have 2 people doing a review for the DW review section - someone experienced and a new member. Surely this would cover the broad spectrum of people that are on DW bearing in mind the 2 reviewers would have different expectations of what the product will do. Gives it a kind of extra balance too.:thumb:


----------



## Deano

@kh904


No mate it really isn't. We arent the government or CIA, or the NSA. 

insinuations like this are really hurtful, especially as we go out of our way more than most other forums. like the xmas draw, and the fact when we see a motoring product we think " the members would like that, wonder if i can get a discount code". 

If anyone has any HARD evidence of a back hander, corruption, whatever, then email us and we will respond to it. Speculative threads are not the way to do it.

The thread was left up as on the whole we are an easy going bunch of admins and mods, and we like to let people have their say and infringements are usually let off lightly . but if you come on here and accuse us of being on the take without concrete evidence, expect to be banned quicker and longer than The Exorcist.


----------



## Ronnie

I gave product to teh moderator who then passed them out to people so i had absolutly no idea who was reviewing it. any questions were passed to teh moderator who in turn asked me then the mod PMed me saying the review had been posted. never asked if I was happy or asked for feed back from me the way it should be.

Samples were given to people o a first come first serve basis as well as people I personally selected to try teh products for 3 main reasons. their unbiased view, I truely value thier opinion, their expertise in teh detailing field so they know what they want and what they like.

I gave out a load of samples to everyone and in truth about 10% did reviews on them and 40% you hear nothing and the rest will PM you with what they think. Personally i keep myself to myself as far asDW goes helps bein on a different Island to most of you lol!! As for free samples ther eis only so much we can give away on average so far its been nearly 200L of each product which equates to quite a few thousand of pounds f product. in Future we will be giving samples of new products and when people order products we will include a few free samples for people to try or review. which I thin kis what most do until they become an established company.


You have to remember people do love different things. I'm a ford man anything with a ford badge is amazing in my eyes they can do no wrong, but Vauxhall dont get me started would rather push a ford than drive a vauxhall you know the score.. 

people on here love certain detailers and would say if thy have a clean tissue that it was amazing, there are ones on here even after these years wont talk to you or acknoledge you its human nature...

its the same with peoducts people love products. I love Zaino it can do no wrong in my eyes. but does it mean that every product it has is amazing some say yes some say notruth is there are very few truely horrible product out there people like different things and sometines the difference between a good and bad product is very very slim.


----------



## bmwman

wylie coyote said:


> No problem with any of your comments.:thumb:
> 
> As you say it's difficult to separate hype from fact. I might do this by looking at who it is that is giving the good reviews - someone with 2,000 posts would probably have a bit more credibility in my eyes....
> 
> Perhaps the answer is to have 2 people doing a review for the DW review section - someone experienced and a new member. Surely this would cover the broad spectrum of people that are on DW bearing in mind the 2 reviewers would have different expectations of what the product will do. Gives it a kind of extra balance too.:thumb:


Wylie it seems to me you've been a member here since 2007 (4-5) years? I suspect you have picked up some knowledge? but you dont have 2000 posts! Does that mean you know less?


----------



## Matt.

-Mat- said:


> I agree Cuey, there are a lot of fan boys, and people who must have the latest product!
> 
> As for the review, as part of the team myself, if I think it's pants, then I'll mark it accordingly! I can't comment how the others do it.
> 
> One of the reviewers wrote a thread the other day about a product he tried, and as I pointed out to him, if it's poor, then let them know (ideally tell the company first).


So if the product is poor they should tell the company first?

The whole point of a review is to post if it's good or not. The company obviously knows they have sent samples out to be reviewed so they should check the review section.


----------



## WHIZZER

Matt. said:


> So if the product is poor they should tell the company first?
> 
> The whole point of a review is to post if it's good or not. The company obviously knows they have sent samples out to be reviewed so they should check the review section.


Some of the samples are "beta" versions :thumb:


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

You really can't use post count as a basis for credibility - some of the best detailers in the UK either aren't on here or very rarely post, such as Gurch, Brad etc Plus people like Nick from SL Restoration who details more high end cars than anyone else I know - I take all of his advice on board.


----------



## Dan_S

The original post by Cueball makes a lot of good points. To me it seems the official reviews are well handled. But to me a lot of threads that ask questions and mention products used on details lead to little debate and often many members jumping on the band wagon with regard to new products. I find it difficult to sift through the 'hype' type posts about products. My pet hate is where someone will go to the trouble of asking about product A vs B vs C and the majority of posts early in a thread suggest other products altogether with no sound reasoning or validation for others recommended, often by many who have never even used said products. To me this is the 'Fan Boy' affect at its best, with some doing little more than increasing their post count and perceived credibility without actually contributing with helpful information either good or bad. 

As a new member here I have found it necessary to watch what I say as certain cliques exist, just because I don't have several thousand + posts under my username doesn't mean I don't have plenty of detailing experience and something valid to contribute with regard to advice. 

I do think DW is quite a friendly forum and for the most part members don't resort to petty internet arguments. However I do think that there is a lot at stake for detailers and product companies on here and many threads contain strategically placed posts from members with influence that benefit both parties.

Just my persective and 0.02c as a newcomer.


----------



## Matt.

WHIZZER said:


> Some of the samples are "beta" versions :thumb:


Well in that case the thread that Mat referred to shouldn't of been posted?


----------



## Bratwurst

If you're going on post count, don't take any notice of mine, it's usually all ****.


----------



## The Cueball

wee_green_mini said:


> If you're going on post count, don't take any notice of mine, it's usually all ****.


and mine...

:lol:

:thumb:


----------



## SarahAnn

Dan_S said:


> The original post by Cueball makes a lot of good points. To me it seems the official reviews are well handled. But to me a lot of threads that ask questions and mention products used on details lead to little debate and often many members jumping on the band wagon with regard to new products. I find it difficult to sift through the 'hype' type posts about products. My pet hate is where someone will go to the trouble of asking about product A vs B vs C and the majority of posts early in a thread suggest other products altogether with no sound reasoning or validation for others recommended, often by many who have never even used said products. To me this is the 'Fan Boy' affect at its best, with some doing little more than increasing their post count and perceived credibility without actually contributing with helpful information either good or bad.
> 
> As a new member here I have found it necessary to watch what I say as certain cliques exist, just because I don't have several thousand + posts under my username doesn't mean I don't have plenty of detailing experience and something valid to contribute with regard to advice.
> 
> I do think DW is quite a friendly forum and for the most part members don't resort to petty internet arguments. *However I do think that there is a lot at stake for detailers and product companies on here and many threads contain strategically placed posts from members with influence that benefit both parties.*Just my persective and 0.02c as a newcomer.


Agree with that totally but what they don't seem to realise is, it soon becomes a turn off and not as they intended a turn on  People 'hyping' up the next best thing due to whoever has manufactured the item when it hasn't even been tried and tested by anyone on here :lol:


----------



## VIPER

kh904 said:


> However i disagree with the bold part, i think everyone has the right to at least question the 'team' if they feel that there is a genuine reason or grievence. To say not to question it is like saying you shouldn't question the Government and they are always right and they do everything in the people's/countries interests


Of course they do, and my 'office' door (as with any of the admins) is always open if people want to question something about what we're doing with DW. However, and as Deano's already commented on - making criticisms of the way the site is run is one thing, as we'd all do things differently given the position, but when it's allegations of being 'bribed' to either do a good review or even, more seriously, to moderate the site with a financial agenda, is over the line and, as Dean said, quite hurtful. That's what he meant there.

I'd hope that the 'comedy' avatars that a few of us are sporting this afternoon are taken in the way they're intended: as a light hearted way of us saying it's ludicrous and ridiculous.


----------



## wylie coyote

bmwman said:


> Wylie it seems to me you've been a member here since 2007 (4-5) years? I suspect you have picked up some knowledge? but you dont have 2000 posts! Does that mean you know less?


How could I know less?:lol: I am a hobbyist like many, and also have been reluctant to post on some threads due to my lack of knowledge. Where I have posted and suggested a product e.g. wheel brush, it's because it has worked for me. All my products are purchased with cold hard cash so if they don't work for me they get passed on to people I know - if they get the results I couldn't, I don't necessarily feel inferior.

My lack of posts reflects the amount of time I give to detailing my car - nowhere near as much as many on DW. Wait until 2027 and I might know more about detailing, but I am not the type to make myself out to be an 'instant expert' like some - it's a way to look foolish when you get found out.:thumb:


----------



## chillly

Imho Manufacturers are having to make better products and up there game due to reviews opinions and threads like these. Great thread guys:thumb:

How ever DW *sometimes* gets like this. And i had to ask myself several times before i posted it incase i got some Flack and get some nasty comments : (


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

What if a review listed the products in the same category that the product being reviewed exists, and then they rank them perhaps.

So for example, for me on wheel cleaners - on a new review for the new formula Smart Wheels.

I have used Bilberry, Smart Wheels (old formula), Espuma Revolution, Auto Finesse Imperial and Dodo Super Natural.

I'd then review the new product, then rank it against the other products I have used, which would probably be something like (taking price and performance into consideration).

*- AS Smart Wheels (new formula)*
- Espuma Revolution
- AS Smart Wheels (old formula)
- Auto Finesse Imperial
- Bilberry
- Dodo SN

This shows where *I* rank this against what *I have used *previously - I think this format works a lot better than saying Product X Wheel Cleaner is 9/10. What if it's the first wheel cleaner I've ever used??

Just my thoughts.

For me CEE DOG's reviews are a superb format.


----------



## wylie coyote

wee_green_mini said:


> If you're going on post count, don't take any notice of mine, it's usually all ****.


Yeah, but there are a few nuggets in there!:thumb:

I know post count isn't everything.........hey, stop bullying me you lot!:lol::lol::thumb:


----------



## Edstrung

Oh look, trust the Devil's Advocate to stir the pot before the weekend 


Thing is, if it was all that bad....

a) This thread would have been locked ages ago.
b) You wouldn't have manufacturers publicly listing themselves as 'against bungs'.
c) Admin wouldn't have put 50% on their prices, it was only £2 for a thread lock last week wasn't it?
d) Too many people would be taking a 100% serious take on everything.

The 1-10 scale is always going to be hard to balance. Some people see 5 as average as 10 as exceptional. Others see 10 as normal and mark down accordingly. And anyway, how many products have you read a review of and then bought the product and decided not to make your own opinion and stick to the opinion you read previously?

There is always another side to the coin, otherwise it would be a stamp 





And PS, last year after a few ****ty threads around the site and people *****ing together, I posted the whole 'Opinions are like Assholes' statement, and thread got deleted. WGM types it, and he gets thanked for it! Am I jealous and think he paid the Admin a bung? No. It comes down to timing and situation


----------



## bmwman

VIPER said:


> Of course they do, and my 'office' door (as with any of the admins) is always open if people want to question something about what we're doing with DW. However, and as Deano's already commented on - making criticisms of the way the site is run is one thing, as we'd all do things differently given the position, but when it's allegations of being 'bribed' to either do a good review or even, more seriously, to moderate the site with a financial agenda, is over the line and, as Dean said, quite hurtful. That's what he meant there.
> 
> I'd hope that the 'comedy' avatars that a few of us are sporting this afternoon are taken in the way they're intended: as a light hearted way of us saying it's ludicrous and ridiculous.


I haven't seen any issues with offical reviews, I have seen over hyping in lets say the wax,sealants section where you find the same poster hyping a particular brand, they are either making personal reviews (not official) or always reccomending the same brand. This is of course their right. However when you see things like got a free sample form here or they sent me a bottle to try, along side the continous licking of the brands behind, you start to think, hold on a minute whats in it for them? I now understand certain manufacturers are giving certain members free samples. It is also their right to do so.

I better get typing. I think I'm going to jump on this hyping band wagon. Maybe I might get a couple of beta samples etc. :buffer:

Anyways I love this place and in general the manufacturers, the admin, and traders are superb. Also I do think DW should do more to generate some income, why not? We live in a world that only works if you earn cash.


----------



## kh904

Deano said:


> @kh904
> 
> No mate it really isn't. We arent the government or CIA, or the NSA.
> 
> insinuations like this are really hurtful, especially as we go out of our way more than most other forums.


I know you're not the Government/CIA etc  just making a point they people should question the authority if they have a geniune grievence/opinion

But i personally feel that some threads have been locked & even deleted totally without no reason whatsoever other than some views/opinions have ruffled a few feathers.
There have been other longer standing members (i won't mention names) who have also noticed this and have contacted me also baffled why. I did contact another mod respectfully asking why this has happend, if i did something wrong? etc, but i've yet to receive a response (i understand that it is tie consuming maintaning & running the site) :thumb:.

This isn't personally directed at you and again on the whole you all do a great job!

I agree with you that any accusations must be backed up!

:thumb:


----------



## SarahAnn

bmwman said:


> *I haven't seen any issues with offical reviews, I have seen over hyping in lets say the wax,sealants section where you find the same poster hyping a particular brand, they are either making personal reviews (not official) or always reccomending the same brand. This is of course their right. However when you see things like got a free sample form here or they sent me a bottle to try, along side the continous licking of the brands behind, you start to think, hold on a minute whats in it for them? I now understand certain manufacturers are giving certain members free samples. It is also their right to do so. *I better get typing. I think I'm going to jump on this hyping band wagon. Maybe I might get a couple of beta samples etc. :buffer:
> 
> Anyways I love this place and in general the manufacturers, the admin, and traders are superb. Also I do think DW should do more to generate some income, why not? We live in a world that only works if you earn cash.


That is what i thought the thread was more about when it started. It's certainly what i see happening on here :thumb: If people want to blow manufacturer's trumpets or lick their behinds as you put it, they could do it in their own manufacturer's section :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

Edstrung said:


> And PS, last year after a few ****ty threads around the site and people *****ing together, I posted the whole 'Opinions are like Assholes' statement, and thread got deleted. WGM types it, and he gets thanked for it! Am I jealous and think he paid the Admin a bung? *No. It comes down to timing and situation*


Exactly! :thumb: and which member of the staff team saw it first. They're not all clones of each other and sometimes take a slightly differing view on any given situation. We don't always get every decision right either, we've never claimed otherwise. If I make an error of judgement I'll always blame someone else and pass the buck lol!

_______________________________



markbob917 said:


> one thing id say is if you guys have been bribed then what the  are you still doing running a forum id be off living it up in the caribbean :lol:


Just one last comment before I finish this coconut on the beach, and find out what that topless hula dancer wants with her beckoning finger and suggestive wink.

It might sometimes seem like threads are removed without reason or justification, but there will always be a reason - usually largely to stop the accuser getting themself into hot legal water if making accusation without any substantiation. You wouldn't want DW to get into bother because we were negligent in this area. This is why DW differs to many other large forums - we have so many businesses here, that it's inevitable we'll get a lot of _'this guy does this on his customers' cars', 'this trader gets his stuff from XYZ', 'This manufacturer puts so&so into his products'_.....and so on. We have to play on the safe side with a lot of these at least until any allegations are proven one way or the other.


----------



## bmwman

wylie coyote said:


> How could I know less?:lol: I am a hobbyist like many, and also have been reluctant to post on some threads due to my lack of knowledge. Where I have posted and suggested a product e.g. wheel brush, it's because it has worked for me. All my products are purchased with cold hard cash so if they don't work for me they get passed on to people I know - if they get the results I couldn't, I don't necessarily feel inferior.
> 
> My lack of posts reflects the amount of time I give to detailing my car - nowhere near as much as many on DW. Wait until 2027 and I might know more about detailing, but I am not the type to make myself out to be an 'instant expert' like some - it's a way to look foolish when you get found out.:thumb:


Less :wall: do those with a higher post count know more about detailing than you?  I know what your saying, maybe your not as keen. I've seen people move to 1000 posts very very quickly (conspiracy) but Youve been around for a while so i'm guessing you must know a little.


----------



## markbob917

VIPER said:


> Of course they do, and my 'office' door (as with any of the admins) is always open if people want to question something about what we're doing with DW. However, and as Deano's already commented on - making criticisms of the way the site is run is one thing, as we'd all do things differently given the position, but when it's allegations of being 'bribed' to either do a good review or even, more seriously, to moderate the site with a financial agenda, is over the line and, as Dean said, quite hurtful. That's what he meant there.
> 
> I'd hope that the 'comedy' avatars that a few of us are sporting this afternoon are taken in the way they're intended: as a light hearted way of us saying it's ludicrous and ridiculous.


one thing id say is if you guys have been bribed then what the  are you still doing running a forum id be off living it up in the caribbean :lol:


----------



## WHIZZER

Matt. said:


> Well in that case the thread that Mat referred to shouldn't of been posted?


I dont know whether or not that review was a beta or not - I was merely making you aware that we get all sorts to review - from ready to go samples , beta samples and brand new non realeased products :thumb:


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

SarahAnn said:


> That is what i thought the thread was more about when it started. It's certainly what i see happening on here :thumb: If people want to blow manufacturer's trumpets or lick their behinds as you put it, they could do it in their own manufacturer's section :thumb:


I remember buying Tough Coat on your recommendation :thumb:

Very glad I did too!


----------



## S63

I must admit to not having read every post on this thread but a lot of it does seem to me a lot of hot air and a way of killing time over a Friday lunch time.

Detailing products are not unlike any other when it comes to the "hype". , merchandising, advertising and reviews, whether you are buying a new phone, a new hair shampoo or a new tv. Every brand has its loyal followers, Sony, Nikon, L'Oreal, Daz, they all think they are the best and won't be told otherwise. Reviews are useful but shouldn't be taken as gospel, horses for courses etc. The word expectations was mentioned earlier and with detailing products in particular this is where conflict of views can stem. As an example, a cheap wax used correctly will give better results than an expensive wax used incorrectly.

The most important factor is that the consumer has the final say, if he buys a product based on the manufacturers claims or the results of a review and is disappointed, the product will not be bought again, possibly not buying any product from that manufacturer again and when reading a review from the same source will take a more open minded view in the future.

In my early days on here I bought a product which was given all the hype and wow factor (think it was Jetseal), didn't work for me, put it on the shelf, tried it again 6 months later with more experience and different weather conditions and thought it was brilliant.


----------



## Bratwurst

Edstrung said:


> And PS, last year after a few ****ty threads around the site and people *****ing together, I posted the whole 'Opinions are like Assholes' statement, and thread got deleted. WGM types it, and he gets thanked for it! Am I jealous and think he paid the Admin a bung? No. It comes down to timing and situation


My secret's out









Thanks DW

kerchinggggg


----------



## WHIZZER

kh904 said:


> I know you're not the Government/CIA etc  just making a point they people should question the authority if they have a geniune grievence/opinion
> 
> But i personally feel that some threads have been locked & even deleted totally without no reason whatsoever other than some views/opinions have ruffled a few feathers.
> There have been other longer standing members (i won't mention names) who have also noticed this and have contacted me also baffled why. I did contact another mod respectfully asking why this has happend, if i did something wrong? etc, but i've yet to receive a response (i understand that it is tie consuming maintaning & running the site) :thumb:.
> 
> This isn't personally directed at you and again on the whole you all do a great job!
> 
> I agree with you that any accusations must be backed up!
> 
> :thumb:


Sometimes a thread has to pulled due to legal reasons not only to protect the forum - but also the member that has posted - and with this we dont always post a reason behind it as its twofold sometimes the reason is not valid for the forum to see and othertimes it can be because we dont have time or have forgotton - we are all human and all have other day to day things to do as well as look after DW :thumb:


----------



## kh904

VIPER said:


> Exactly! :thumb: and which member of the staff team saw it first. They're not all clones of each other and sometimes take a slightly differing view on any given situation. We don't always get every decision right either, we've never claimed otherwise. If I make an error of judgement I'll always blame someone else and pass the buck lol!


Very true & i understand that totally, but it's also totally understandable if some people 'feel' aggreived in result of the lack of consistancy! Once again that's natural, understandable & beyond an individual's control. :thumb:
Similar to how a ref will send a player off for a tackle on minute, but a similar tackle later on by the other team is just a free-kick or no foul at all without explanation.

Shouldn't you blame someone else & keep the buck  :lol:


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## SarahAnn

MidlandsCarCare said:


> I remember buying Tough Coat on your recommendation :thumb:
> 
> Very glad I did too!


Yes i did comment a lot on that when it came out as i was impressed and it seems to have done very well (I also got a lot of stick about commenting on it so much). That's why i couldnt understand the person's comment this morning when i had made a comment that i hadnt liked AF Revive and he said it was because i hadnt been given a free pot of Desire :wall:


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## wylie coyote

bmwman said:


> Less :wall: do those with a higher post count know more about detailing than you?  I know what your saying, maybe your not as keen. I've seen people move to 1000 posts very very quickly (conspiracy) but Youve been around for a while so i'm guessing you must know a little.


Keen yes, motivated.......only slightly.

I've picked up a bit, but perhaps I'm a shrinking violet or one of those who would not treat anyone any differently in type than they would in person. Some of those that rack up large post numbers in a short period are perhaps less sensitive. My point (maybe) is that, even after being on here a few years I would probably be reluctant to go up against one of the pros or more experienced members in a discussion because I am only a part time hobbyist who is probably looking for a different result to them.:thumb:


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## Bratwurst

viper said:


> just one last comment before i finish this coconut on the beach, and find out what that topless hula dancer wants with her beckoning finger and suggestive wink.


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## WHIZZER

wee_green_mini said:


> View attachment 21464


But the camera is on the yatch and that would mean that we would have to get on the jet ski to go and get it


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## wylie coyote

MidlandsCarCare said:


> I remember buying Tough Coat on your recommendation :thumb:
> 
> Very glad I did too!


And me - will be getting another at the Autosport show as well.:thumb:


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## JJ_

The review can only be based on Deano, or whoever is reviewing it, prior knowledge to products and product usage. 

There are people out there who make a wage out of reviewing stuff and most of the products I have tried are a balance of detailing paradise, autopia and DW. 

Some products are better, some work differently and some are not as good. 

I agree with Russ that Scholl is really impressive as is Megs 205 which I feel are easier to use than 3M and I get better results with them. 

The longer you are involved in detailing the more products you see come and go and the more you see stay. 

Plus does the review not just give a % ?


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## Bratwurst

A fairly explosive thread, in 'amount of posts in the time', I mean...

14 pages in 4 hours :doublesho


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## Bratwurst

JJ_ said:


> detailing paradise... autopia


Who? 

:lol:

:thumb:


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## JJ_

wee_green_mini said:


> Who?
> 
> :lol:
> 
> :thumb:


Away n play wi yer earwax !

:devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::lol::lol::lol::lol::devil::devil::devil::devil:


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## wylie coyote

wee_green_mini said:


> A fairly explosive thread, in 'amount of posts in the time', I mean...
> 
> 14 pages in 4 hours :doublesho


It might calm down when it's time to go over the pub. Who's round is it?


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## Bratwurst

Vipers again.


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## WHIZZER

wee_green_mini said:


> Vipers again.


Ah bugger he just got on the jet ski to fetch the camera !


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## VIPER

....and I STILL don't have my wallet - honestly!! :lol:


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## Bratwurst

Shaun, completely OT, but why do you have wee cherries on your sig pic?


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## The Cueball

VIPER said:


> ....and I STILL don't have my wallet - honestly!! :lol:


No where to keep it in your mankini eh?!?!?!

:devil:



:thumb:


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## VIPER

WHIZZER said:


> Ah bugger he just got on the jet ski to fetch the camera !


and fell off - now I'm swimming for my life >> 

Someone else get the drinks in.....I'm a bit pre-occupied here :lol:


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## wylie coyote

The Cueball said:


> No where to keep it in your mankini eh?!?!?!
> 
> :devil:
> 
> 
> 
> :thumb:


Isn't that it causing the bulge???:lol::thumb:


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## Bratwurst

Big banana hammock Viper :doublesho:lol:


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## PugIain

its blue,ive seen it.


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## markbob917

wylie coyote said:


> Isn't that it causing the bulge???:lol::thumb:


viper in a mankini is causing the bulge? woah woah woah :lol:


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## WHIZZER

VIPER said:


> and fell off - now I'm swimming for my life >>
> 
> Someone else get the drinks in.....I'm a bit pre-occupied here :lol:


Well count me out - Im going to have to fetch the speed boat now ![


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## markbob917

PugIain said:


> its blue,ive seen it.


it would be from wearing a mankini

i'll get me coat.....


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## Matt.

WHIZZER said:


> I dont know whether or not that review was a beta or not - I was merely making you aware that we get all sorts to review - from ready to go samples , beta samples and brand new non realeased products :thumb:


I am aware of that.

I was just replying to what Mat was saying you should do. Which is if you don't like a product then tell the company first! 

If you don't like a product, then you should clearly say you don't like it in the review.


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## wylie coyote

Along with a rating, perhaps the reviews should include the question: 'would you use this product in place of your current favourite'? The reviewer could then give an honest answer.:thumb:


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## PugIain

markbob917 said:


> it would be from wearing a mankini
> 
> i'll get me coat.....


to quote a famous fox
boom boom.


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## Guest

Eloquent and true - down to a tee. :thumb: Although this place is undeniably an unbeleivably anal, I personally have found the reviews factual and honest.


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## ant_s

Hmmmm well an interesting read for a Friday afternoon lol.

Have to agree with Cuey on the fanboy thing, there are a lot of fanboys on here but that's to be expected because detailing IMO is more about the whole package then just the product - about the value, ease of use, customer service, and how *you* perceive the results you get.

IMO thats the only problem you get on here but that's what makes DW, if I were to go on a Ford website it would be all about Ford and their ways of modifying and their specialists, but before, when I was on Pug forums the rules were completely different, but at that time you all on there agreeing about a similar thing Fords/Pug's. On here you can't all agree becaus detailing is such a personal experience it's unreal.

Take the good old lsp war of wax's vs sealants - god! Those are the threads I stay away from because you get some fanboy defending their way, and arent open minded enough to see from the other side. But you can't moderate the way someone feels, it's a free country so that's how it is and how it will always be, to me this pub (using Deanos example) is great, you get a few arguments but over petty stuff, then 5 mins later it's all friendly again and 'who's round is it?' lol

The mods/admin do a great job as do the review team IMO, they give up their free time for us lot to get together and look at shiny pics (sometimes of cars, sometimes other stuff in the GC if magpie (dawn) and Ithaqva (doug) have anything to do with it lol)

I've never thought the review team get bungs bar the small sample (which nothing in reality so I hold no grudge there if it sounds like I am), but it definitely happens where people get bungs from manufactures but that happens everywhere so who cares.....

Now, I've defended DW so wheres my money or free stuff?! :devil:


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## evotuning

It seems that now You just can't praise certain company/product, just because You will be classified as "fanboy". Cool  


So grow some balls, and tell us, who are these fan boys exactly ? nick by nick please


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## The Cueball

evotuning said:


> It seems that now You just can't praise certain company/product, just because You will be classified as "fanboy". Cool
> 
> So grow some balls, and tell us, who are these fan boys exactly ? nick by nick please


You seem to have missed the point of my post and definition of a fan boy... that's OK... but, yes you are OK to like things and say so.. That is not a fan boy... :thumb:

Nothing to do with pointing out certain cretins or not having the [email protected] over the internet.. trust me, my minerals aren't in question 

What I can say is that your post that I saw today - and ones like yours, IMO, are childish and uncalled for stating that someone doesn't like a product because she didn't get a pot of wax... that is the type of BS post I am referring to.... why not just accept someone doesn't like the same thing that you do... no need for that pi$h...

Now it may have been a joke, or just a wee dig, but, as lots of people have pointed out, there are similes for that   etc etc to try and show people the way you are typing things..

:thumb:


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## ant_s

I don't think it's more a case of growing balls and naming here, more a general observation, it would be pretty easy to name but that's not very DW, nor would it make the situation better.


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## Bratwurst

evotuning said:


> It seems that now You just can't praise certain company/product, just because You will be classified as "fanboy". Cool
> 
> So grow some balls, and tell us, who are these fan boys exactly ? nick by nick please


I'm not going to bunch folk together here, I know what I was trying to get across, so I'll try again just for you... saying that blindly praising a company or product that you haven't tried is the essence of the 'fan-boy' thing... not praising something that IS good and has been PROVEN to be good.

You're being a bit pedantic in swinging it completely the other way.

Do you really think that when someone finds or uses a good product we want folk NOT to say?

All we are talking about is some honesty and consideration for others.


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## WhichOne'sPink?

Allow me to add my 2p to this thread. Forgive me if I repeat anything that has been said already as I've only had a quick skim read.

As someone who has been reading this forum for a lot longer than I've been a member I will say that DW is an excellent source of information and advice from hobby detailers and processionals alike, the vast majority of posts are constructive/useful and the banter is up there with the best. 

On the topic of reviews, I would say that some people will value the opinions of the reviewers more, or less, than other people. Would it not be naive to base an entire purchasing decision on one persons opinion? I'm sure most people will take into account the thoughts of a number of people rather than just one review. To say that reviewers are being coerced into giving more praise that may be deserved is redundant whether they are or not. 

As for "fanboys", some people will always have an unfailing allegiance to a certain product/brand and will defend said thing no matter how pathetic it may make them look. You can spot these people a mile of and make your own judgements on the validity of their arguments. 

Interesting thread though.


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## bmwman

The term fanboy: To regularly reccommend a specific brand/company and defend that company with determination. To over exaggerate at every opportunity the benefits of buying x product from x brand. To regularly state that x brand achieve better results than x brand. X Member jumps at the opportunity to praise x brand even if its a little review about their new glass cleaner etc. I could go on. But the standout word is ((REGULAR/LY)). It started to get me thinking about what benefit these types of members obtain. 

A fellow dw'er in above posts is suprised and wanted to find out who these X members are. If you pay attention you see for yourself. Although these X members may actually just be genuinely over enthusiastic and happy go lucky people who love that particular brand so so very much. 

Note: I'm not referring to the official review team as frankly I dont really read their reviews often enough. I keep up with things by clicking on the "New posts" tab.


----------



## Ross




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## Gruffs

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even if it is an opinion of another person's choice. 

How that opinion is presented and therefore perceived is vital in a text based format. Hence the NEED for smileys when being tounge-in-cheek.

:wave::devil:

EDIT: Ross has dragged out the popcorn smiley again i see.........................................

Everyone will assume you are being serious unless you clearly show otherwise. Even if you strongly disagree with someone's opinion, just say so without being offensive or personal. It's not hard is it?

As for the review section, it's somebody's opinion at the end of the day. In a place where i see daily words like 'nuance', 'subtle', 'hint', 'glossier', 'wetter' (which must mean more wet than wet somehow :lol' a review is always going to be subjective and personal to the reviewer. Although, they are from an informed position, the reviewers are as human as the rest of us. 

They are the ones putting in the time though. :thumb::thumb: 

And, given that this is a forum about being anal about cleaning, would the people that are anal about cleaning be equally as anal about the products they sell/make? Meaning that they could all be very good and very close in performance then are differenciated by words such as the above. Or, my personal favourite 'slicker' shampoo. :lol: 

They could even be the same stuff in a different bottle with different smells for all I (or indeed, they) know.

Having said all that,

If you have been here long enough, you learn what to take notice of and what not to and soon learn which way to take your money and your time/effort. And, dare i say it, which posts are a worthwhile read and which are not.

EDIT: I should also point out that if a response such as "you're not doing it right" or others mentioned by The Cueball in the OP is given, then surely some advice or direction should follow? If you are considerate enough to point out the failings of others, courtesy would dictate that you should help them to rectify those failings.

This is mainly why i usually thank people for their work in the 'look how shiny i can make a car threads' as I am not in a position to comment.


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## johnnyguitar

MidlandsCarCare said:


> Group tests is the way forward IMO, as the current format relies on the fact that the Reviewer has used a wide enough range of products to form a fair opinion. Comparing 4 different offers at the same time is a much better way of doing it perhaps?


I agree that a group test would be a worthwhile idea, after all a car is plenty big enough to be subjected to four separate products.
All reviews will be subject to the way a product has been used by the person that used it - just because that person has not used a wide range of products shouldn't influence whether they are elgible to present a review of a specific product based on their use of other similar products. I have, what I would consider to be, a wide range of product at my disposal but nowhere near as many as some folk own. 
I have neither the money to spend on a professional array of products as I, personally, have found a selection from different suppliers and manfacturers that suit my needs, nor the time to use every last one of them. If I have a product to test and it does the job it is expressed to do, then it will receive a positive review, irrespective of whether or not it performs comparably with another product or previous formulation. I agree this is where a group test would be useful.

With the number of members on this site, the number of products marketed, the number of write ups in the showroom and studio detailing the products used, it is fairly easy to draw your own conclusion over whether a product is worthwhile. Read through a dozen which is the best wax for MY SPECIFIC CAR threads and you can make your own decision whether or not you'd like to try a product.

Or you can look at everything that one brand produces, think "ooh, shiney", buy it, take a couple of photographs of the bottle to post on here, put them in your cupboard and never take them out until they go in the marketplace on here because somebody else has come along, presented their opinion as fact and the purchaser rushes off to the nearest internet connection with their credit card and buys something else shiney that smells of puppies and melons.

That's where the fan-boi (did I say it right) element comes into it, entirely in my, non-factual opinion of course. We all have our own views on products. I will never use another product by a certain manufacturer ever again because of their attitude towards one of their customers who posted disappointment about one of their products. I'm sure they don't care really and why should they?

I'll only buy stuff when the bottle of what I've got has run out. I like what I use and if, after driving myself almost insane reading reviews on here, I can't find anything that may do the job better then I'll just buy more of the other stuff.



bmwman said:


> seems my suggestion is being ignored, no one has an opinion.. let me ask again. (Group Testing)
> 
> A manaufacturer should allow once a month/quarter to provide 10-20 samples of their chosen product. Lets say 10. The ten posters (first come first serve) get their samples. To make it fair the mods should provide policies and procedures (rules) pertaining to best practice when reviewing products. The first 2-4 posters are obligated to review the product in line with the rules. The remaining "winners" can choose to review the item if they wish but do not need to abide by the best practice for review rules. Does this make sense to people? Is it worth a go? It ensures the review are always random and allows different people to obtian samples. *Rather than those whom use the PM method to get these free samples. I've always felt it rude (morals) to ask for anything for free particularly when those around me are having to buy them, its just not fair but thats my opinion. I have asked traders for free samples* but thats with an order usually totalling to over £80. im using one trader regualrly and they are providing me with free samples on some order as a good will gesture but I give them regular work :doublesho


This is all well and good, but there needs to be more of a lottery to draw from people who wish to provide a review otherwise the same folk who live on here instead of working (I'm joking, sort of) will always get product (and is therefore less random as you suggest) and their reviews may not be objective enough - perhaps. I realise the flaw in having a review team is having product sent out to same people may yield the same results as above. There was another point but I forget what it was.
Some of the start up manufacturers may not have budgets to send out 10 samples to 10 different people and wait for the reviews to come in. If a sample can be tested outside controlled conditions, it will provide an opinion of whether the product works on not rather than a "yes this is by far the best bespoke transport wax remover I have ever used out of the 3000000 transport wax removers that any of the shiny, boutique manufacturers have ever made". If it doesn't work at least that manufacturer can save money on potentially wasted R&D to try a new forumlation if it's something they are doing themselves, rather than buying in bulk and remarketing with a posh label and a fancy bottle.



bmwman said:


> Buit Ronnie who do you allow to review your products? *How can I get free samples to review?* do I need to talk a manufacturers product up in order to be seen? or do I need to build a personal relationship/friendship with a manuifacturer? Maybe im just being naive.


To me, and please forgive me if I am wrong for it is only my opinion, this reads like you just want some free stuff. Same in your first post. Asking for free stuff is not amoral. There are a lot of folk on here that are posting regularly in the showroom (and some that show be posting in the studio and supporting the site, eh  ) and they are using a LOT of product. There must be folk (fan-bois) on here that are hobbyist detailers that are spending more on products in a month than some of the pros, then taking a picture of it, putting "I <3 dodo juice/swissvax/zymol/turtle wax/tesco value buckets" on Facetube and then forgetting they own the stuff - if you get free stuff, so what - if you want free stuff badly enough then ask for it. The worst answer you'll get is no.

I've had some stuff in the past, some of it you'd never really do a whole car with tbh so you're only goal is to provide an honest opinion of what you think of it and hope that somebody actually gets some benefit from it.


----------



## McClane

I'll be honest, I'm a lot more judgemental with my wallet, or indeed if you were to meet me in person, than I type on here. Some of that's not rocking the boat - some of that is also I'm aware that I'm publishing my opinions... Not just dumping them out there into to "pub ether" soo to disappear in a blaze of booze addled forgetfulness. So keep a little to myself. 

One might also call it anti-keyboard warrior syndrome... Although I try not to let it get in the way of my appetite for truth, or getting things right. I'll happily admit when I'm wrong or change my mind, as that's half the fun. Baring in mind it's just a hobby for yours truly.


----------



## bmwman

johnnyguitar said:


> I agree that a group test would be a worthwhile idea, after all a car is plenty big enough to be subjected to four separate products.
> All reviews will be subject to the way a product has been used by the person that used it - just because that person has not used a wide range of products shouldn't influence whether they are elgible to present a review of a specific product based on their use of other similar products. I have, what I would consider to be, a wide range of product at my disposal but nowhere near as many as some folk own.
> I have neither the money to spend on a professional array of products as I, personally, have found a selection from different suppliers and manfacturers that suit my needs, nor the time to use every last one of them. If I have a product to test and it does the job it is expressed to do, then it will receive a positive review, irrespective of whether or not it performs comparably with another product or previous formulation. I agree this is where a group test would be useful.
> 
> With the number of members on this site, the number of products marketed, the number of write ups in the showroom and studio detailing the products used, it is fairly easy to draw your own conclusion over whether a product is worthwhile. Read through a dozen which is the best wax for MY SPECIFIC CAR threads and you can make your own decision whether or not you'd like to try a product.
> 
> Or you can look at everything that one brand produces, think "ooh, shiney", buy it, take a couple of photographs of the bottle to post on here, put them in your cupboard and never take them out until they go in the marketplace on here because somebody else has come along, presented their opinion as fact and the purchaser rushes off to the nearest internet connection with their credit card and buys something else shiney that smells of puppies and melons.
> 
> That's where the fan-boi (did I say it right) element comes into it, entirely in my, non-factual opinion of course. We all have our own views on products. I will never use another product by a certain manufacturer ever again because of their attitude towards one of their customers who posted disappointment about one of their products. I'm sure they don't care really and why should they?
> 
> I'll only buy stuff when the bottle of what I've got has run out. I like what I use and if, after driving myself almost insane reading reviews on here, I can't find anything that may do the job better then I'll just buy more of the other stuff.
> 
> This is all well and good, but there needs to be more of a lottery to draw from people who wish to provide a review otherwise the same folk who live on here instead of working (I'm joking, sort of) will always get product (and is therefore less random as you suggest) and their reviews may not be objective enough - perhaps. I realise the flaw in having a review team is having product sent out to same people may yield the same results as above. There was another point but I forget what it was.
> Some of the start up manufacturers may not have budgets to send out 10 samples to 10 different people and wait for the reviews to come in. If a sample can be tested outside controlled conditions, it will provide an opinion of whether the product works on not rather than a "yes this is by far the best bespoke transport wax remover I have ever used out of the 3000000 transport wax removers that any of the shiny, boutique manufacturers have ever made". If it doesn't work at least that manufacturer can save money on potentially wasted R&D to try a new forumlation if it's something they are doing themselves, rather than buying in bulk and remarketing with a posh label and a fancy bottle.
> 
> To me, and please forgive me if I am wrong for it is only my opinion, this reads like you just want some free stuff. Same in your first post. Asking for free stuff is not amoral. There are a lot of folk on here that are posting regularly in the showroom (and some that show be posting in the studio and supporting the site, eh  ) and they are using a LOT of product. There must be folk (fan-bois) on here that are hobbyist detailers that are spending more on products in a month than some of the pros, then taking a picture of it, putting "I <3 dodo juice/swissvax/zymol/turtle wax/tesco value buckets" on Facetube and then forgetting they own the stuff - if you get free stuff, so what - if you want free stuff badly enough then ask for it. The worst answer you'll get is no.
> 
> I've had some stuff in the past, some of it you'd never really do a whole car with tbh so you're only goal is to provide an honest opinion of what you think of it and hope that somebody actually gets some benefit from it.


If you read my previous posts you'll be able to ascertain that I actually feel that asking for free samples Is just not nice. Particularly if I have no links, or relationship with the subject manufacturer. If you feel otherwise then That's fine with me. I just feel that if free samples were to be handed out for the benefit of reviewing they should be done so as yOu say in a random manner. But I assure you I'm not here for free samples. I've got many products far more than I require. 
I also agree that samples are sometimes useless I.e not enough to do a whole car, however some of the sample bottles, waxes seem to be quite sufficient.


----------



## gerz1873

My experience of DW is 99% positive and like many others i suppose have learned a great deal and that is down to the friendly and informative posters, traders and admins on here
I have noticed that a few people on here have formed cliques and seem to take pleasure in promoting their inflated egos regarding detailing and I find them boring and not worth the bother :thumb:


----------



## Deano

The point has kind of gone now but I did say earlier i would post up the review team charter so people could see how fair we try and keep it. This is usually locked away in our private section so wanted the thoughts of the others before posting. Like I say this is to give an insight into what we do and how level we try and keep it. it has not been doctored in anyway, the review team and traders will back me on that, and it is also *not up for debate*. if we decide to change the format we will but this is what we are using for now.

_Review section revamp
Dear traders and reviewers.

In a bid to improve the quality and quantity of DW reviews,the following is designed to streamline the current review system so that manufacturers and reviewers alike know what to expect (and what is expected) from the reviewing of a product. It is aimed to not only ensure Detailing World has a speedy and fair review system, but to also secure a stable relationship between traders and the DW review team. There are a few changes to the old system and this is a first draft so please be patient with any teething problems and we will rectify any such problems quickly and in a way that benefits all parties.

: Any manufacturers wishing to have products reviewed should PM Deano or Mick

: We will then ask for reviewers in the review section and the first two people to respond will be given the product for review. This will move to a turn based assignment if the same two people respond all the time. It has been limited to two people as the team feel multiple reviews of the same product isn't efficient.

: We will then PM the reviewers asking for the address where the product is to be sent to. This in turn will be sent to the trader to send directly to the reviewers.

: Once the goods are received by the reviewer, they should PM Deano and Mick to say they have received the goods.

: Once the goods are in the reviewers' possession, they will have 14 days to test the product and post a review. If the reviewer is going to miss this deadline they must PM Deano and Mick and we will in turn notify the trader of any delay (bad weather etc). This will ensure a swift turnaround and keep DW first in reviewing new products. It also gives the trader piece of mind of what is happening with their product. If a reviewer constantly misses the 14 day deadline, they may be asked to step down from the team.

: Reviewers should stick to the current "mini review" format. They should feel free to add any personal findings on the product and go into depth about as long as it addresses the questions in the format. DW members vary from the layman to the professional and the current style embodies the core values of a product and will be useful to pros and at the same time not scare away new members.

: When sending products, can traders please be mindful of the quantities being sent out. A small amount of wax etc is fine, but when sending APC, shampoo etc, please be aware a decent amount is needed to test it properly and to make sure it reaches the intake of a spray head.

: By submitting a product for review, the trader/manufacturer understands that the product is subject to personal opinion and reviewers are encouraged to be honest about their findings. At the same time, reviewers should make any negative comments in a professional manner.

: Any grievances , information requests or anything to do with the running of the review section, should be directed at Deano and Mick.
___________________

Cuey you are welcome to take a place on the review team for a while to see how it works, and how unbiased it is.


----------



## Alex_225

I must admit there has been a bit more a trend for peopl to put up smart ar$e replies to recurring questions etc.

I've been on here a fair while and when I signed up you could ask the same things and the nice thing was you didn't get a know it all answer from an older member. 

I'm a member of a well known, very big Renault forum and you daren't post something up for fear of being shot down in flames if you put in a spelling mistake, it's not witty enough, someone in the clique doesn't like it etc so I don't bother really posting.

DW is one of the best large forums for petrol heads in general but just don't want everyone to lose sight of that. We all share a common interest so should treat each other like mates!


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## markbob917

lets everyone remember, or for those that dont use other forums, that by far and away DW is generally the easiest to post things on (as in least likely to get flamed) and can we all support the mods who keep it that way else this will end up like all the other forums as alex 225 has stated. i for one have decided that if someone tells me what im doing is wrong then fine they can have their opinion doesnt mean im going to listen to it


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## J1ODY A

You trying to get your thanked rating up Cueball?

Perhaps you should post more sensitively, like I do


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## Mick

J1ODY A said:


> You trying to get your thanked rating up Cueball?
> 
> Perhaps you should post more sensitively, like I do


:lol: :lol: now *THAT'S* funny  :thumb:


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## ads2k

Alex_225 said:


> I must admit there has been a bit more a trend for peopl to put up smart ar replies to recurring questions etc.
> 
> I've been on here a fair while and when I signed up you could ask the same things and the nice thing was you didn't get a know it all answer from an older member.
> 
> I'm a member of a well known, very big Renault forum and you daren't post something up for fear of being shot down in flames if you put in a spelling mistake, it's not witty enough, someone in the clique doesn't like it etc so I don't bother really posting.
> 
> DW is one of the best large forums for petrol heads in general but just don't want everyone to lose sight of that. We all share a common interest so should treat each other like mates!


Finally someone with some sense :thumb:

I've held back for most of the day reading the ongoing saga of this thread and wasn't going to post and let the fact that the review team members (Of which I am one) were being accused of possibly excepting payment for better reviews is quite frankly ridiculous and down right slanderous....  I have a full time job, work hard, have limited free time when cars get a look in and somewhere in that time 'I' review products for DW. Now yes I get these products for free :thumb:, yes sometimes they all full size products but quite often they are only big enough for a panel review. I try and make them as unbaised as possible but as has been said before it is my opinion.

I did right a lot longer list of comments but I really can't be bothered with this whole thread anymore....


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## Spoony

Everywhere in life will have its cliques and have it's fanboys. In terms of forums I'm on a couple else but in 3 years I've posted 120 times on one for the fact that they seem to hate new posters on it. If you've not got 1000 posts+ your irrelevant really.

In terms of DW it doesn't matter what I ask someone has the answer, it is the broad, diverse user base that makes DW the place it is.

Yeah I like a good bandwagon every now and then but having come full circle I rarely jump on. I even give products out free myself to let folk try them out wihout having an outlay - and sometimes they are 90%+ full. And again have met a lot of people who do the same, wee green mini went out his way to sort me some starjgloss (spelling) samples FOC and came over to meet me with them. This is in general indicitive of the DW population.

In terms of reviews, I've never been coerced in to giving a good one, in fact that would put me off because I'm pretty stubborn with my own opinion. I have only given one 10 and I genuinely feel itblew me away in terms of performance (VP Citrus Bling) and will remain in my collection. I will try new products, I will give my opinion, right now I'm pretty happy with Maxolen's offerings and have chatted with Pat at length about his products. I'm also loving prima and just bought collinite which is t'riffic along with the old favourites like megs gallons. It will also take a lot to gett me to change shampoos from Britemaxx. Like you I just use what works, and for me these work 

Yes Cuey I agree with you in some respects, but in others maybe not so much. It's a hard thing to eliminate or stop from happening.


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## AaronGTi

What is it with most other forums? If you dont have more than 10000 posts you're deemed a nugget. Thats the great thing about DW it just aint like that!


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## The Cueball

J1ODY A said:


> You trying to get your thanked rating up Cueball?
> 
> Perhaps you should post more sensitively, like I do


not that I care about that..but I wonder why someone has removed all the thanks I have been given!?!?

35 at my last count, now someone has decided that I should not be thanked, but others making comments towards me, and about me can...

wow.. that is fair eh... :wall: what a way to show exactly what I mean!

:lol:


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## Will-S

Cueball is this not just an extension of other posts that have cropped up recently (not by you, I must add) about where the forum is going.

It seems that every new product that comes out is instantly flavour of the month and recommended by everyone that buys it. If that were true then why do they appear so much in the "for sale" section  This isn't new, I think it is just that there are more people bringing out new products. "Detailing" is still relatively new in the UK and it is obvious there is money to be made if you have a must have product. 

Like others I have a products that I buy and think, "yes this is a great product" But when I stand back and analyse it in the cold light of day, I think "that paint cleanser isn't any better than AG SRP" (despite being three times the price :lol

There have been too many comments on here recently in answer to new member questions that say "use the search button" and frankly this is just downright rude. If you can't be bothered to offer advice then don't post.

I agree with you to an extent, there does seem to be a lot of bum kissing. Too many posts on a basic wash n dry are met with "utterly fantastic turnaround" Perhaps that is due to people wanting to up their post count or trying to "fit in".

There are people on here who disagree just to be difficult (or perhaps that is just their nature)

I think in an open forum we should be able to be honest with each other and, as you say, be adult enough to disuss/debate without flaming.


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## wylie coyote

Your stats shows 3,655 thanks as far as I can see CB.....:thumb:


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## -Kev-

DW has always been a great forum for established members and newbies alike (a quick look in the newbie's introduction forum shows that).
more than 9/10 a newbies question is answered with either a link to the appriate thread (a guide for example) or with an answer, unlike many other forums which you get shot down on for the smallest thing. 

as for the reviews, well many on here know im pretty 'to the point' with my opinions on products so if i like a product i review then i will say so, whereas if i don't like then i will say as such and why. to that end - ive not reviewed any products for way too long due to a few too many things happening at home through most of last year. that will change come the nice weather though 

just my 2p worth on the main subject of this thread...

(my post is unbiased and nothing to do with me being a 'mod' now, incase anyone wonders )

when these kind of threads get out of hand (as they usually do), i wonder what any 'guests' viewing are thinking of DW as a whole.. probably puts a few off signing up..


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## chrisc

Said many a time the review section was bit biased.Only one post two at a push.
Should be like mine and yes I got it free before any one asks
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=187431
Over 7000 views and 50 posts(not just me what likes it).
Not bad for someone what cant spell that good.
Am I a fanboy yes every one should use autosmart and bilthamber.A warrior no there nasty been atacked by them before and got a scarbourgh warning off viper and is crew for me been bit of a ****.So review wise just a bit more people involved would be good review it then ask who as used it and let a few comment on it also.As the current just looks a bit like a advert.


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## nick.s

bmwman said:


> seems my suggestion is being ignored, no one has an opinion.. let me ask again. (Group Testing)
> 
> *A manaufacturer should allow once a month/quarter to provide 10-20 samples of their chosen product. Lets say 10. The ten posters (first come first serve) get their samples.* To make it fair the mods should provide policies and procedures (rules) pertaining to best practice when reviewing products. The first 2-4 posters are obligated to review the product in line with the rules. The remaining "winners" can choose to review the item if they wish but do not need to abide by the best practice for review rules. Does this make sense to people? Is it worth a go? It ensures the review are always random and allows different people to obtian samples. Rather than those whom use the PM method to get these free samples. I've always felt it rude (morals) to ask for anything for free particularly when those around me are having to buy them, its just not fair but thats my opinion. I have asked traders for free samples but thats with an order usually totalling to over £80. im using one trader regualrly and they are providing me with free samples on some order as a good will gesture but I give them regular work :doublesho


I do believe I have seen a couple of manufacturers do this recently 



WHIZZER said:


> But the camera is on the yatch and that would mean that we would have to get on the jet ski to go and get it


Don't forget its my turn next month on the DW JetSki  I've sorted the company Jet to bring you and it back 

Now I've got those bits out of the way...I'll give you my personal experience of the review team as a current member.

I got the opportunity to join after submitting a review of some Farecla products back in the summer. I personally loved the chance to _constructively_ critique a product. Myself (and every member of the review team) donate our time (which based on my annual salary is very expensive ), our own money (in terms of other products used to initiate the reviews we are carrying out, and cop the flak from our significant others when we are yet again outside cleaning the already clean behemoth parked out front. We don't do it for the glamour, the pay (there is none, back hander or otherwise), we certainly don't do it for the glory. The reason _I_ wanted to do it was a) I enjoy detailing, b) I enjoy constructive criticism and c) I enjoy the fact that I can provide an honest and open review that may or may not assist fellow DW'ers in choosing a product to suit their needs. My slant on how I rate a product is, if it is naff I'll say, if it lives up to expectations, I'll say. BUT, as Rollo has said, why would a manufacturer release a genuinely bad product? It is tantamount to professional suicide, especially in such a market driven industry as detailing...

Now, to sum up the entire thread, I think I can do it in one simple sentence that I have seen posted elsewhere in this great forum (forgive me please he/she who originally posted it, in the crap jokes thread I believe it was...)

DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ ON THE INTERNET.
Winston Churchill

:thumb:

If we take everything we read with a pinch of salt, we'll be in a much better place  When I read a review (for anything, not just detailing related products), I look at ALL reviews, and balance them out. I read the good and the bad points and make an informed choice. I then pay my money and take my chances. Sometimes I win, sometimes I don't.


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## mr kuryakin

i agree with some of the points cueball raises.there seems to be mass hysteria over some of the new products that come out.if someone does think its as good as the product they use the fan boys have a go,the usual stuff,your not using it properly etc.the thing is ive been guilty of buying the next best thing and to be honest its either been worse or the same as the product ive replaced it with.i dont think its the review team,i think some people take what some pros say as gosbal and if they say this is the best then hell mend you if you dont agree.now the pros are far better detailer than i will ever be but like to have a look at my stuff see whats running low and if i can replace it with a different product or manufacturer.i like trying it out and seeing if its as good as its ment to be.i still enjoy using older products that might not be the latest cutting edge of detailing technology but i get good results with them.

i really like this forum and although im not a big poster im on here every day and enjoy looking at the cars people are detailing.this is a friendly forum on the whole im a member of a my football teams forum and they are brutal.a comma out of place you will get abused for it.i think we all need to apprieciate that you can post what you want and on the whole you wont get abused.


----------



## The Cueball

wylie coyote said:


> Your stats shows 3,655 thanks as far as I can see CB.....:thumb:


talking about this thread mate... there were a lot of people that had thanked my for putting this up, but for some reason, someone has now removed them... but left all the thanks for people making comments about my post or about me...

As I said, what a great way to prove exactly what I mean...

:thumb:


----------



## bug.mania

PugIain said:


> German car fan bois who think if its not German its **** are really really boring imo.So boring infact I take every opportunity to wind them up.They have no sense of humour 9 times out of 10.
> I pretty much post what I like and if folk dont like it they can stuff it.Everyones entitled to their own opinion even if its not what the "rest of the herd" think.


wind me up then


----------



## Fish

Don’t worry I'm sure the thread will go the way of the fairies along with those missing 'thanks'. 

Fish


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## JJ_

Wheeler dealers is on at 10pm. 
:lol:


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## Bratwurst

Why be so petty as to remove CB's 'thanks'?

He was only expressing a view (that a LOT of folk agreed with).

If it was so 'bad', why was this whole thread allowed to remain?


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## CTR De

oh yeh , there were rows and rows of thanks under your initial post and theres just 4 names now ??????


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## greenwagon

I really like this forum 
Yes I admit I live chemical guys products as my main supplier but the banter is good on here and very little trouble compared to the other forums I live on 
I think people get so passionate about the products they use and

Why not when you can see your smile in the bodywork


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## Lupostef

..... Double post


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## Lupostef

The Cueball said:


> talking about this thread mate... there were a lot of people that had thanked my for putting this up, but for some reason, someone has now removed them... but left all the thanks for people making comments about my post or about me...
> 
> As I said, what a great way to prove exactly what I mean...
> 
> :thumb:


Contradicted themselves by proving your exact point then, not that I disagreeing or argeeing :thumb:


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## Stomper

Wow , cant believe i made it to the end of this thread and its not been removed . Shame about the thanks though . Utterly disgracefull move by whoever removed them .

At Cueball . I get your Op , although it seems to have gone off track a little . 

As a relative newbie around here i tend to only post about stuff im 100% sure on as i see people being shot down all the time . I have a bad temper so try not to get involved incase i say whats on my mind instead of what people want to hear .
An example this week was a thread by stu323GT-R asking about Prestige Chris , all the op did was ask if he was sound as he was getting his eemails ignored . 
The OP got shot to bits and loads of comments about how nice Prestige Chris was and how wrong the OP was for starting the thread . 
In steps me in a bad mood and says whats on my mind , 2 mins later after i posted a pic of a bandwagon for all chriss fans to jump on the thread was removed .
Classic move admins.

As for the reviews section , never really thought about it , but new products should really go to all types of users not just the pros . A pro will use it to the best of its ability an get the results , but what about regular hobby users like me , without reviews from people like me then they will be all one sided .

Just my 2p worth .


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## svended

I am a noob when it comes to the serious side of detailing. I could be classed as a 'fanboy' because I love the Gtechniq range, though thats not to say I haven;t tried others. I've used everything from shops own products to premium products and industrial valeting products over the years. Okay I may rave on about them a little too much but that is because I stumbled upon this brand and damn glad I did as it's saved me a hell of a lot of time and money to get to some amazing products. Yes I've found a few really great Autobrite items and the odd Autofinesse and Permanon products, but I rave about them not because I am a fanboy but because I believe in these items and which to pass on my experience of how great these are. If I can learn something and also help to pass it on, great. Is that what were all here for.


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## geoff.mac

Well cuey I think you've achieved what you set out to do, and that was to discuss it, however it has gone off on a tangent somewhat

Back to op, I couldn't agree more, I'm certain a lot more people would post and not lurk on here if when someone goes against the grain they're not shot down in flames. 
As for the review's can't say much about them as I seldom read them but the one thing I will say is that the one's I've read all seem to be the dog's dangles when in reality we all know thats not correct because if it was we wouldn't have a need for the sales threads as everyone would hold onto the stuff they buy, but again I never for one minute even thought about folk getting a dropsy for a review.

**** lickers are ruining this forum imo, a person asks for advice on product a and product b and within the first 3 replies someone has replied with a different product, wtf is that all about, can't these people read, is really simply either answer the question because you've actually tried the product or go and bash your keyboard on someone who actually gives a sh**e. Sorry but I've spoken to a few people about this and its a complete joke, its one thing "liking" a certain product and another thing saying the product name in every sentence, some people join and have 2000 posts in 2 months ffs thats some typing to get them up that quick and most of the time they could just copy and paste what they put in their last 10 post :lol: 

my 2p's worth and oh yeah, whats all that about, dw admin employing a thanks stealer ffs :lol::lol:

big up to cuey for raising this :thumb: but as most have said you "learn" to ignore the **** lickers and you can usually smell them as you enter the thread :thumb:


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## Will-S

geoff.mac said:


> Well cuey I think you've achieved what you set out to do, and that was to discuss it, however it has gone off on a tangent somewhat
> 
> Back to op, I couldn't agree more, I'm certain a lot more people would post and not lurk on here if when someone goes against the grain they're not shot down in flames.
> As for the review's can't say much about them as I seldom read them but the one thing I will say is that the one's I've read all seem to be the dog's dangles when in reality we all know thats not correct because if it was we wouldn't have a need for the sales threads as everyone would hold onto the stuff they buy, but again I never for one minute even thought about folk getting a dropsy for a review.
> 
> **** lickers are ruining this forum imo, a person asks for advice on product a and product b and within the first 3 replies someone has replied with a different product, wtf is that all about, can't these people read, is really simply either answer the question because you've actually tried the product or go and bash your keyboard on someone who actually gives a sh**e. Sorry but I've spoken to a few people about this and its a complete joke, its one thing "liking" a certain product and another thing saying the product name in every sentence,* some people join and have 2000 posts in 2 months ffs thats some typing to get them up that quick and most of the time they could just copy and paste what they put in their last 10 post* :lol:
> 
> my 2p's worth and oh yeah, whats all that about, dw admin employing a thanks stealer ffs :lol::lol:
> 
> big up to cuey for raising this :thumb: but as most have said you "learn" to ignore the **** lickers and you can usually smell them as you enter the thread :thumb:


Which is why post count doesn't necessarily mean knowledge


----------



## DE 1981

Thanks being removed now-sums it up really does WTF is all that about very poor but to be expected


----------



## Stomper

svended said:


> I am a noob when it comes to the serious side of detailing. I could be classed as a 'fanboy' because I love the Gtechniq range, though thats not to say I haven;t tried others. I've used everything from shops own products to premium products and industrial valeting products over the years. Okay I may rave on about them a little too much but that is because I stumbled upon this brand and damn glad I did as it's saved me a hell of a lot of time and money to get to some amazing products. Yes I've found a few really great Autobrite items and the odd Autofinesse and Permanon products, but I rave about them not because I am a fanboy but because I believe in these items and which to pass on my experience of how great these are. If I can learn something and also help to pass it on, great. Is that what were all here for.


I think the term FANBOY was aimed at the KNOW IT ALL guys who jump on other peoples threads and shoot down what the people in there are talking about . 
I love Maxolen products and i`ve done a couple of reviews , and if someone was discussing their products i would offer an opinion . If someone was discussin X brand then thats a discussion i would keep out as my opinions on maxolen dont count unless the OP requested an alternative to x brand . if you know what i mean .

I think Snobbery is the key to getting in the Fanboys club though . :thumb:


----------



## jimmy669966

Have to agree about removing the "Thanks".

If the Mods don't like the thread it's 100% their call to delete it, if they don't like the tone of certain posts within the thread it's 100% their call to delete those too. These decisions out of respect for the Mods shouldn't be questioned.

But to leave a thread open and not delete the post, but deleting the thanks related to that post (if this is what's happened) smacks of school yard politics.


----------



## Deano

DE 1981 said:


> Thanks being removed now-sums it up really does WTF is all that about very poor but to be expected


nobody has removed any thanks, we're having a look at it. there is a mod tool we use that tells us what actions have been made in a thread and thanks removal does not show. Yes it does highlight a point. That some people are just so eager to point out a "controversy" that they don't stop to think and ask one of us what has gone on.

I suggest you join another forum mate as you obviously don't like this one.


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## DE 1981

I'm not really interested in what you'd suggest mate whether your a mod or not.

Clearly I've ruffled a few feathers but again not particularly fussed, surely we are all big enough to air opinions??

For what it's worth the forums great it's some of the members and crap that goes on that isnt good.


----------



## The Cueball

Deano said:


> nobody has removed any thanks, we're having a look at it. there is a mod tool we use that tells us what actions have been made in a thread and thanks removal does not show. Yes it does highlight a point. That some people are just so eager to point out a "controversy" that they don't stop to think and ask one of us what has gone on.
> 
> I suggest you join another forum mate as you obviously don't like this one.


ok, thanks.. does look at bit odd though eh... 

:lol:


----------



## Deano

DE 1981 said:


> I'm not really interested in what you'd suggest mate whether your a mod or not.
> 
> Clearly I've ruffled a few feathers but again not particularly fussed, surely we are all big enough to air opinions??


put it this way. We like to keep it fair and everyone has an opinion, but if all your going to do is moan about how we run this place, why do you even log on, seriously.


----------



## David

cueball pretty much sums up why i don't really like this forum - i purely use it to now search new products and i'll conduct my own research if i want it.

i quit valeting (still do my odd jobs for ex-clients etc) but the politics behind it go far beyond a wash mitt and some water.

as with all internet forums, you'll get folk who in real life would never say anything, but on the internet they are some sort of wanabe moderator, almost like their new purpose in life because they cant do it in real life.

im with cueball - i couldnt give a sh1t what people think of me, say about me behind my back.

I've toned down the posting ive done on this forum as i find it is now split up in to wee groups of the fan boys who love the wee groups of uber detailers, some of whome are forgetting that valeting took them to where they are now and would never dream of doing a dirty car with a street value of less than £25,000


----------



## Deano

David said:


> cueball pretty much sums up *why i don't really like this forum - i purely use it to now search new products and i'll co*nduct my own research if i want it.
> 
> i quit valeting (still do my odd jobs for ex-clients etc) but the politics behind it go far beyond a wash mitt and some water.
> 
> as with all internet forums, you'll get folk who in real life would never say anything, but on the internet they are some sort of wanabe moderator, almost like their new purpose in life because they cant do it in real life.
> 
> im with cueball - i couldnt give a sh1t what people think of me, say about me behind my back.
> 
> I've toned down the posting ive done on this forum as i find it is now split up in to wee groups of the fan boys who love the wee groups of uber detailers, some of whome are forgetting that valeting took them to where they are now and would never dream of doing a dirty car with a street value of less than £25,000


but not enough to stop posting though eh.


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## 182_Blue

I have no idea how many thanks your post had but i am surprised people think we would remove them and expect that nobody would notice !?, if we wanted we could just remove the whole thread , removing thanks serves no purpose other than to wind people up more than they are already, there is either a glitch or thanks can be removed accidentally with just one touch on a link (surprisingly easy on iPads and iPhones ), I will be the first to admit that being left handed (the remove thanks is on left of screen on the bottom of the post) I have removed thanks on my own posts and can't get them back, one click or hover over the button and they are gone.


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## Deano

Right this has gone on long enough. To sum up...

The review team are unbiased, cueball has been invited onto the team to see this first hand, let me know if you want to take the offer up Cueball.

Certain people will defend/slate a product and there is really no need as one person will love a product, one will hate it.

Cueballs thanks were not removed by admin, or if they were, it was by accident from an iphone or ipad as sometimes happens, but it isnt showing on our mods action. if you like, you can thank him again if it really means that much.

People who don't like this forum will still post and stick their beak in when things like this happen. we must be doing something right if they still log on, but I wont have people post purely to tell us how crap we are, so you can mosey on.

If some people put more effort into the memorial thread we posted in the new year for DW members that are no longer with us, maybe that would have reached the biblical interest levels this had generated, and not the 20 odd posts the memorial thread did. 

I put a fiver on those that think DW is going downhill, or is corrupt etc, still entering our xmas draw and competitions.


----------



## Deano

I apologise for the stern nature of that post, as most of you will know we (admins) aren't bad guys and you can approach us with anything, but DW is our labour of love, and to have both it and our integrity brought into question like this, especially by some people we thought we could count on for support, stings. It really does.


----------



## VIPER

Carry on...


----------



## Sirmally2

I've had to re-read Cueballs OP because i've completely lost track on what this was about to start with.

Been a relative newbie and with not as much experience as the seasoned pro's and lifelong detailers sometimes i don't have alot of room to comment, but i put my views up anyway. 

I will admit i have only ever been sent 1 sample. (I am not going to name it because thats unfair) And from the sample i got given its my current running favourite of which i still continue to use. Not because it was given to me but because i genuinely believe in the product and i think it is genuinely good, which was shown in a write up i did on here. I would like to stress it was sent to me as a freebie and that i give my opinion based on me been a hobbyist user and from the select range of products i have tried i think its the better. 

Personally i enjoy my detailing, i'd love to try everything that gets a good review but simply i can not afford to do so. But if i wanted to try it im sure id try it. If i thought it was genuinely c**p then i'm afraid i would say so. If its down to user error, then it is. If i have used it wrong then i'll take on board what others have said, and give it another try. I am to do this with a wax i have just bought, i really did not get on with it my first round, but i believe this been down to the weather. So i will try it again when it warms up.

I would like to add that i have no affiliation with any company or manufacturer and any views i express are my own opinion. I will reccommend something based on my thoughts and the overall package (Support and help from manufacturer, speed of delivery etc)


----------



## S63

VIPER said:


> Carry on...


May I ask why you have reopened the thread having closed it yesterday? Would have thought it has gone full circle by now.


----------



## jebus

Wow this thread is huge!

I'm not a regular poster, nor do i do much in the way of detailing just now. The site has changed since i first visited, but that was a while ago and internet forums do change.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion and is free to voice it here, but if you dislike the site, have a problem etc then its quite simple to not visit here. This site is very open and many people go out of there way to assist others, i have only met the team from polished bliss, when i was fortunate enough to have a job interview with them, sadly i wasn't the man for the job which epicly sucked  
but oh well can hope for a 2nd chance  that was an official meeting but members on here gladly offer there time, assistant, and products to help people.
I think people need to remember there are plenty of internet forums where u'd get banned for questioning the mods, not allow a public discussion like this.

Hype over products etc is nothing unusual anywhere, go to any forum on any subject and the same thing will happen there, its just the way people and things go, its really nothing to get worked up over but again thats the way people and things go.

I hope that this doesn't start a lot off arguing this is a nice and mellow forum, we doing need to turn into pistonheads lol love the forum its a good laugh but so much time taken up with proper *****ing about pointless issues.

take care everybody, remember we all still got our pride and joy outside, that needs driven or cleaned lol do that more and come here less sounds far more fun.


----------



## VIPER

S63 said:


> May I ask why you have reopened the thread having closed it yesterday? Would have thought it has gone full circle by now.


Of course, and I'm happy to answer.

I didn't close the thread myself, but it would appear that not everyone had had the opportunity to say their piece, so I took the decision to reopen it today.


----------



## james_death

S63 said:


> May I ask why you have reopened the thread having closed it yesterday? Would have thought it has gone full circle by now.


Possibly like myself, having only read the thread long after its closure...:lol:

No idea on how thanks can be removed but if it can my suspicion would be people made initial thanks and then decided they dont want to be associated with it so removed them.

Just a thought as stated have no idea how you could even do it...

This is just a speculation its just what came to my mind and is no reflection on anyone just a possibility.

Just an idea of how they possibly could have gone from the bottom of the bar on screen, whereas some people will loose thanks from there total count meter when old threads thats serve no purpose are removed or disappear into the ether. Think has happened before with system updates.

I Have felt myself that a few posts lately turned into personal insult sessions and was glad to see them closed to stop them going further, they do make the forum look unsavoury.

The site caters for all ability and pockets, The review team are made up of a mixed bunch.

The majority of the review team if not all are just Joe Blogs General public, salt of the earth honest hard working tax paying people....

That like to test and share there honest unbiased non bribed opinions.

I have only recently joined the official review team and felt honoured to be even considered, i would and still do my own reviews even if not on the official team.

I always wanted to help others when joining and pretty much test everything, i even have 3 products on the polo bonnet testing at the minute.
I try even very cheap products.

Must admit i still have not got round to posting a review of the Mike phillips Detailing book.

Well download in my case.

I help where i can and encourage the newbies to post i can see a lot of newbies and especially lurkers been too scared to post thinking there view does not count isnt warranted or they will be shot down which is a shame.

I whole heartedly recommend people to post there tests and we did go through a period of getting tests from comparatively new members.

With anything in life devotee's exist be it designer labels, car brands, car wax etc....

Despite an individuals appreciation for a specific brand and only that brand, they can still offer advice guidance and support to others.

Despite peoples recommends we all need to see the results ourselves and everyone does not have the same appreciation of a product, it can take a long time to find what you like the look of best, or best longevity etc... you may never achieve exactly what you want.

What needs to be remembered is each recommend is that of one individual its there opinion and theres alone.

Anyone viewing a product with anything in life say buying a cooker would search for reviews online to see what the general public, that have actually bought and used would say about it... i know i do... you still are taking a chance on anything....

What needs to be remembered is that this is a public forum and the things posted are easily thrown up in search engines.... The open name calling etc that can go on in a thread does belittle and damage the public view of the forum im sure.... I have found links in searches for product reviews throw up other cases in other forums...

Not at all pleasant, i must admit its not the norm on Detailing World to see such terrible behavior .... Belittling someones view or worse there whole posting is very detrimental to the forum....

It will put people off posting or even make them leave and only have bad things to say about the forum....

A little more decorum would help the forum and the members.... i welcome anyones opinion good or bad on a product.... However they need to be honest unbiased and to help others explain what they found about it that they did not like or get on with and vice versa what they like about other products.

However just posting to bad mouth a product without explanation serves no purpose.

As to bad mouthing an individual then the old adage of... if you have nothing nice to say then dont say anything at all...would be best taken on board.

Not everyone gets along with everyone else in the world but making such appalling personal attacks on other members serves no purpose but to feed one persons ego and belittle anothers.

Thank you if you have managed to stick with me through all that....:lol::thumb:


----------



## alan_mcc

james, I don't pay tax.
that is all.


----------



## ant_s

alan_mcc said:


> james, I don't pay tax.
> that is all.


Lol Alan, you'll soon make up for that when you get older lol


----------



## james_death

alan_mcc said:


> james, I don't pay tax.
> that is all.


Suspected i may get a comment on the tax.....:lol:

Wanted to put an Al Murray link in with him doing it but only the excellent Mock the week one came up and that has a adult reference in it so could not.....:lol:

The tax bit was a last minute edit....:lol:


----------



## chillly

VIPER said:


> Of course, and I'm happy to answer.
> 
> I didn't close the thread myself, but it would appear that not everyone had had the opportunity to say their piece, so I took the decision to reopen it today.


Glad you re opened mark it gives everyone a chance to have second read of what they posted and also others to reflect on what we said, as sometimes what we first post does not come out how it is spose to. A big plus for me is it gives everyone chance to say what they feel within reason as it is a open family thread for all to see.

Threads like these clears the air and having re read it i think there are alot of good valid points raised which can then be discussed in an nice and polite manner which then moves DW forward IMHO :thumb:


----------



## Derekh929

Well what can i say i to have bought a few products since i have joined of the back of hype if that is the correct word or excitement that a new toy to play with is in the shops, i think what ever the age we are we should be old enough to decided if we want to part with our hard earned money, i have to say i have tried some excellent products and some i will not be replacing as disappointed me , but someone else may think works well for them. So far Auto Smart Tardis , Smart Wheels and G101 i will be sticking with untill i feel i see a new products that can do the same or better and price point.
I never rule out other options that would be silly IMHO, Next i love Iron X but i also like Wolfs Dironizer for other jobs but different product , will likely try others just to see if suit me better, as for Auto Finesse some great products love the triple and Crystal and citrus, and Tough coat, but away to try some others as well Autobrite Magifoam not tried any others but it work very well i'm happy but with try others, Meguiars Detailer gear pleased with it Last touch , Degreaser and Shampoo plus all be it i have also AF Lather sitting to try and Wolfs Nano Bath to try when i get the body wrap on when correction done, i have changed my mind with a few products already and can see partly where Cueball was trying to get accross and would not like to think the riview i thought was a normal detailer that was on the pay role from the retailer that would not be fair to members and i'm sure the people that run DW would not allow this to continue if they were aware of this in any way.
As a new member i have to say did buy some gear of the back of what could be called hype or just excited people enjoy the whole detailing thing, but i can always sell what i don't like as people on here pay good money for it, i have a fair lot of different companies products and the fun of the hobby is to try different new products and sometimes you will be really pleased and sometimes disappointed, and if people are not honest then they will get found out, but i have to say i have found most of the members on here excellent but have noticed on a thread i answered on re service from a trader that i was disapointed never got a reply and another member kept getting told his problem was one of don't worry , then after a couple of people were honest like i was someone else posted that would have stayed of if not seen our comments.

I have to say to the DW review team i have never felt any reason to part with my Cash on the back of the reviewed but was able to make an informed decision on the back of info all over the forum not just one review as lots of threads to read.

As for Fan Boys well that is life some like to affiliate to certian brands well there money there choice not my plan to become fan boy or i'm i won already a DW Fan Boy LOL


----------



## Derekh929

alan_mcc said:


> james, I don't pay tax.
> that is all.


That will soon change after you into that engineering and then it will be mostly all tax enjoy your days as student work all the best Derek


----------



## RedUntilDead

Well if its open again I will offer my view but I have only scanned most posts as I get bored easily
OP does raise some good points. I accuse some of the retailers of over "pushing" products too. This pisses me off because sometimes I am too busy to research the best product for my needs and trust their recommendations. i.e I bought a product which one retailer advertises as,"we use this product all the time in our studio so now you know how we get such a good finish" I buy said product.My next visit to the website and a few details they have posted, guess what, they are not using the product "secret to our finish" product? fell for that one I now dont open any post re reviews. 
I love this site and visit every day. I think its well run and where else would I have access to so many friendly guys who don`t mind sharing (for free) their vast knowledge of all things not just detailing related. Cliques I don`t mind but some of the fan boy stuff is very, very cringe worthy. Other forums I use have an ignore poster option. This site doesn`t does it? A few people I would love to ignore to be honest.
As regards one of the posters feeling bullied and not wanting to post well I don`t understand that. We are all hidden, the internet makes some people brave. Typed words cant hurt you so post away:thumb:
I don`t mind the newbie posts that get posted time and time again as I still class myself as a newb:newbie: Rather than be sarcastic I will try and reply, besides it keeps things fresh well for me anyway.
So thanks for a great site and thanks to anyone who has given me advice in the past:thumb:


----------



## Deano

in your user cp there is an option to put people on an ignore list mate. :thumb:

no it wont let you put admins on there before anyone asks. :lol: :thumb:


----------



## Tazz

its certainly a mixed bag, each to their own etc

however, the one thing we have in common, is that we want a clean car

different products, different methods, comes to the same outcome, a clean car

a few weeks ago, i majorly slated turtle wax, this was not the opinion of DW, it was mine, an opinion based on use and experiance and resaerch into their range and the company as a hole, im sure TW dont care what i think, yet i still got ripped apart on here by a few who love the stuff

an example of the OP, brand new products, being highly praised, when a product from an established company that has spent years of research and cost can be just as better, but nope, a little 'yet another' brand comes along and just near enough copies the formula anyway and theyre considered some sort of gods on here

i personally think that any companies set up around the last 5 years is pointess, theres already over 50 brands, do we need anymore?

i also made a post about opinions of other brands, but that was deleted by admin, to which i had a polite email, no harsh words merely stating that some brands cant be mentioned due to some have paid, i respect this and have no quaral, but isnt everyone entitled to a fair hearing? only 30 are mentioned on here, what about the other 20?

one thing ive also noticed, when somebody makes a post saying (for example...) "i have product A and product B, which shall i use on this or that", the replies come back as buy product C or buy product D, when that wasnt what was asked, lol

all in all, its each to their own, experiences and preferences, its still a happy community that i like being apart of, all i want to see if a fair opinion of products and brands, not all brands are amazing and not all products are the best thing since slice bread, lets see some products get ripped part by growling dogs B)


----------



## -Kev-

i think one thing that would help is people stopping and thinking about what they're about to type sometimes, and ask themselves if they'd say it to someones face. might stop a few bad posts cropping up...


----------



## R0B

Deano said:


> in your user cp there is an option to put people on an ignore list mate. :thumb:
> 
> no it wont let you put admins on there before anyone asks. :lol: :thumb:


Damn it :lol:


----------



## McClane

-Kev- said:


> i think one thing that would help is people stopping and thinking about what they're about to type sometimes, and ask themselves if they'd say it to someones face. might stop a few bad posts cropping up...


Indeed! Or if they'd like it said to themselves :thumb:


----------



## Matt.

-Kev- said:


> i think one thing that would help is people stopping and thinking about what they're about to type sometimes, and ask themselves if they'd say it to someones face. might stop a few bad posts cropping up...


Is that partially aimed at me Kev?


----------



## -Kev-

aimed at no-one at all Matt, just a general obsevation that these kind of threads start off ok usually then a few bad posts send it off topic and end up getting it locked. as said, if everyone thought about what they're typing then maybe that would'nt be the case and these kind of threads would be more constructive


----------



## Matt.

Ok. Fair point.

But if it was, when other forum users get your 'back up', sometimes you go all guns blazing as I would if it was anyone else in person.


----------



## -Kev-

fair enough Matt, sometimes it is hard not to 'rise to the bait' (im sure we've all been there on one forum or another). as said just a general observation and not aimed at any one person


----------



## Derekh929

-Kev- said:


> i think one thing that would help is people stopping and thinking about what they're about to type sometimes, and ask themselves if they'd say it to someones face. might stop a few bad posts cropping up...


Well said Kev i stopped using another form as people did not think before criticiced you for spelling and grammar get a life did not use again.
Oh no i hope i'm not becoming a fan boy of Kev LOL


----------



## R0B

Derekh929 said:


> Well said Kev i stopped using another form as people did not think before criticiced you for spelling and grammar get a life did not use again.
> Oh no i hope i'm not becoming a fan boy of Kev LOL


Derek you are now officially a Kev fanboy.......and im joining too:thumb::lol:


----------



## chrisc

Derekh929 said:


> Well said Kev i stopped using another form as people did not think before criticiced you for spelling and grammar get a life did not use again.
> Oh no i hope i'm not becoming a fan boy of Kev LOL


this site as had it's fair share of that and people like dodo juice got a bit too big for there boots.:thumb:


----------



## -Kev-

R0B said:


> Derek you are now officially a Kev fanboy.......and im joining too:thumb::lol:


sshhh!! your making me blush :lol:


----------



## Derekh929

chrisc said:


> this site as had it's fair share of that and people like dodo juice got a bit too big for there boots.:thumb:


lets hope it's gone now as my spelling not great and if needed i could get a proof reader if it return's LOL luckily not had any problems on DW with this


----------



## chrisc

Derekh929 said:


> lets hope it's gone now as my spelling not great and if needed i could get a proof reader if it return's LOL luckily not had any problems on DW with this


Yes it's lot better now most arseholes seem to have gone or been banned


----------



## andy monty

chrisc said:


> this site as had it's fair share of that and people like dodo juice got a bit too big for there boots.:thumb:


Says the Bilt Hamber Fan boy  :wave:

Tis Good stuff though isnt it :argie:


----------



## Mike k

To be honest i haven't read enough on here to notice any 'advertising'. Must say i have seen some really good things on here, such as people giving good comments on peoples pride and joys thsat they've posted up, even if the car wasn't to their taste etc. I used to frequent a certain large ford forum and alot of the time u would get ignored unless u had a large power cosworth or u had to have had a large power ford thats been magazine featured. 

Biggest laugh is a certain ford tuning mag who rave about a certain tuner and non stop talk about them in their mag and u have half a chance of being featured if your car was tuned by them.
My cosworth managed rs turbo had all parts supplied by a certain well known essex tuner who's a one man band and he was a fair bloke who never ripped u off or anything and always wanted to help, often for little money. he got frowned upon by bigger companies and had a bad name on said forum, probably because big companies were jealous that he was nicking business from them. 

What im getting at is this is all rediculous. Are we here to share our passion or are we here to promote our favourite companies?? 

Its also one reason why i think this site is good in the way it kinda has the showroom section for the non professional amongst us such as myself.


----------



## TheGav

This thread still going? :yawn:


----------



## -Kev-

no-one said you had to read it though


----------



## TheGav

-Kev- said:


> no-one said you had to read it though


I've skimmed though it tbh, just seen a load of b!tching and swearing.


----------



## HeavenlyDetail

chrisc said:


> this site as had it's fair share of that and people like dodo juice got a bit too big for there boots.:thumb:


 I would say the opposite to this as they are one manufacturer that are quite open and approachable in any aspect , most people that have met them would agree im sure , very sincere bunch of guys...


----------



## bigmc

HeavenlyDetail said:


> I would say the opposite to this as they are one manufacturer that are quite open and approachable in any aspect , most people that have met them would agree im sure , very sincere bunch of guys...


I agree, not a bad thing to say about dj


----------



## JJ_

HeavenlyDetail said:


> I would say the opposite to this as they are one manufacturer that are quite open and approachable in any aspect , most people that have met them would agree im sure , very sincere bunch of guys...


Yep I concur, dodo juice offer a good service and everyone seems very friendly to me not really the type I would say are to big for their boots? Bit of a rubbish thing to say


----------



## chrisc

HeavenlyDetail said:


> I would say the opposite to this as they are one manufacturer that are quite open and approachable in any aspect , most people that have met them would agree im sure , very sincere bunch of guys...





JJ_ said:


> Yep I concur, dodo juice offer a good service and everyone seems very friendly to me not really the type I would say are to big for their boots? Bit of a rubbish thing to say


My opinion what the thread is about:thumb:
Just dummy was spat out of the pram too many times for me and personal attacks from a supporter manufacturer was not very shall we say grown up.
But I'm over it now and just dont post in any thing of there's.


----------



## JJ_

chrisc said:


> My opinion what the thread is about:thumb:
> Just dummy was spat out of the pram too many times for me and personal attacks from a supporter manufacturer was not very shall we say grown up.
> But I'm over it now and just dont post in any thing of there's.


Dom attacked you verbally on DW and spat the dummy out ? Never saw that  he always seems very personable, thats strange.

Come on chris what did you say to wind him up :lol: :thumb:


----------



## chrisc

JJ_ said:


> Dom attacked you verbally on DW and spat the dummy out ? Never saw that  he always seems very personable, thats strange.
> 
> Come on chris what did you say to wind him up :lol: :thumb:


cant jj the powers above will strike a ban on me.
Then i spat my dummy out day after what was not very grown up of me:lol:


----------



## PugIain

bug.mania said:


> wind me up then


i only work 3 nights a week and spend monday to thursday cleaning my car and drinking beer!
(did that work?  )


----------



## Bratwurst

TheGav said:


> I've skimmed though it tbh, just seen a load of b!tching and swearing.


So then you do some *****ing yourself, whilst compaining about *****ing?... 

As in all walks of life, marriage, work, forums, clubs etc, sometimes you need a chance to air some views and opinions. Now and again threads like this pop up with genuine grievances, and whether you agree or disagree, as always, you're perfectly entitled to do so. Do you not think that if you have an issue, it's sensible to discuss it in a grown-up manner rather than just let it simmer away inside? Better a chat about it than someone or a group totally lose it one day and risk losing thier 'company' over something we could all been mature about and discussed?

I think it's a huge credit to DW that we can all have a debate that stirs emotions like this one, yet at the same time keep it fair and sensible.

Personally, I'd also like to add, and repeat, that I have never called into question the owners/gaffers of this forum. They keep this place running as sweet as it does and do it fairly and openly... Allowing this thread surely is evidence of this?


----------



## -Raven-

JJ_ said:


> Yep I concur, dodo juice offer a good service and everyone seems very friendly to me not really the type I would say are to big for their boots? Bit of a rubbish thing to say


ask daveKG about dodo juice!


----------



## Guest

This thread has some good points to it ,one thing that I find annoying on this site is that correct me if Iam wrong DW is for pro's and enthusiasts, and you get certain detailer's who slag and want the so called weekend warriors banned and ridicule them, but in the same breath promote and sell detailing products and take money of them for so called training days, if it wasn't for the members on here or not on here buying there products they probably would not sell half as many .


----------



## Ross




----------



## Guest

Ross said:


>


:lol::lol:


----------



## AndyC

Skimmed this as I was watching the darts.

Fact is this place started as a clique back when detailing wasn't the bandwagon it's now turned into. 3 blokes polishing exhausts and talking wax and polish. Then L200 and Dave KG joined in and it snowballed from there. Sadly a lot of other stuff happened along the way which wasn't anything like as a nice, decent and friendly and many of the good old boys from day one aren't here any more.

The product reviews represent a lot of hard work by some volunteers but frankly I suspect many, like me, simply skim them to see what's new. If anyone is being naughty and not impartial then that's between them and their conscience. FWIW I don't recall reading a bad review, including for products which have underwhelmed to put it politely.

I've known Dodo since before they hatched and have never been asked to give a biased opinion in return for freebies. Conversely, I've given some bluntly honest feedback to them over the years - much of it private and relating to pre-production testing where other people have also given a view.

Been asked for a less biased view a few times too but that's ancient history. Suffice to say it related to some of the more hyped gear around which in reality is only slightly above average. IMO of course.

Sure, there are more products around now and most of us will play around. Despite having several life partner products I do still find my eyes wandering now and again. Not yet strayed from Menzerna for example as I haven't found something which works better for me.

People get caught up by hype everywhere in life but put simply the overwhelming desire to grow into something commercial from which a handful really benefit has completely outgrown the original ethos behind this place.

Do I think DW is sh1t? Nope, occasionally post here, view stuff without logging in. Do I enter competitions? Nope, my few principles do include not being a hypocrite. Will this post be removed? Possibly, every time I have spoken out since resigning as a moderator for, I can assure everyone who bothers to read this, absolutely the right reasons it tends to get closed or removed.


----------



## Leemack

Ross said:


>


OMG how i agree with this

Unit 23-25 Hollies Park Road
Hollies park
Cannock
Staffs
07715 358 209

:thumb:

Just in case anyone wants to see me  Im always open for a chat


----------



## HeavenlyDetail

Concours Car Care said:


> OMG how i agree with this
> 
> Unit 23-25 Hollies Park Road
> Hollies park
> Cannock
> Staffs
> 07715 358 209
> 
> :thumb:
> 
> Just in case anyone wants to see me  Im always open for a chat


via internet in reception


----------



## Leemack

HeavenlyDetail said:


> via internet in reception


:lol:

Ok to clarify

Im there Tuesday from 0700 till 20:00, same Wednesday and Thursday then Friday im at home talking crap on the internet to people behind their screens.


----------



## ant_s

Concours Car Care said:


> OMG how i agree with this
> 
> Unit 23-25 Hollies Park Road
> Hollies park
> Cannock
> Staffs
> 07715 358 209
> 
> :thumb:
> 
> Just in case anyone wants to see me  Im always open for a chat


Noooo that's to close to me Lee! I cant buy detailing stuff I need money for my house! Ahhhh

Is that where CCC will be based now then - well part of it, and maybe another where Adam is?

'yes I know off topic, but this thread is just going off on a tangent now anyway lol'


----------



## Deano

Concours Car Care said:


> :lol:
> 
> Ok to clarify
> 
> Im there Tuesday from 0700 till 20:00, same Wednesday and Thursday then Friday im at home talking crap on the internet to people behind their screens.


anyone who can eat a pastie with that much ketchup on, is not a man to be picking a scrap with. :lol:


----------



## -Kev-

:lol:


----------



## Leemack

Deano said:


> anyone who can eat a pastie with that much ketchup on, is not a man to be picking a scrap with. :lol:


You know it


----------



## J1ODY A

So if I come to cannock I get a free pastie?

Could pop in to see an old friend in Wilenhall whilst up that way :lol:


----------



## Leemack

J1ODY A said:


> So if I come to cannock I get a free pastie?
> 
> Could pop in to see an old friend in Wilenhall whilst up that way :lol:


Course you can mate

Got loads in the fridge


----------



## james_death

jon tdi said:


> This thread has some good points to it ,one thing that I find annoying on this site is that correct me if Iam wrong DW is for pro's and enthusiasts, and you get certain detailer's who slag and want the so called weekend warriors banned and ridicule them, but in the same breath promote and sell detailing products and take money of them for so called training days, if it wasn't for the members on here or not on here buying there products they probably would not sell half as many .


*To my mind, the term weekend warrior is more an inexperienced machine polisher that then takes money from others to do there vehicle to a very bad standard... Result is then bad rep for all.
*
The term as such is not been used for an individual who although new and inexperianced (for we all need to learn somewhere) they are only working on there own vehicle or scrap panels....

Thats how i see it anyway...


----------



## bug.mania

PugIain said:


> i only work 3 nights a week and spend monday to thursday cleaning my car and drinking beer!
> (did that work?  )


:lol::wave:


----------



## King Eric

Deano said:


> @kh904
> 
> No mate it really isn't. We arent the government or CIA, or the NSA.
> 
> insinuations like this are really hurtful, especially as we go out of our way more than most other forums. like the xmas draw, and the fact when we see a motoring product we think " the members would like that, wonder if i can get a discount code".
> 
> If anyone has any HARD evidence of a back hander, corruption, whatever, then email us and we will respond to it. Speculative threads are not the way to do it.
> 
> The thread was left up as on the whole we are an easy going bunch of admins and mods, and we like to let people have their say and infringements are usually let off lightly . but if you come on here and accuse us of being on the take without concrete evidence, expect to be banned quicker and longer than The Exorcist.


I'd ban anyone who so much as suggests it. But then I'd also suggest other things as well, probably why I was not ever made a moderator on here.

Incidentally while we are on the topic, a moderator has changed my location to 'on another planet'. So I'd like to make a complaint that I am part of some strange conspiracy theory and I will keep coming back and whinging about it.

<puts tin hat on head>

People (members of this forum!) need to realise that in order to have some sort of testing and review section, you need to understand that suppliers and companies will do what they can to persuade those testers to state favourable things about their products. You either trust that review or you do not. Detailing World are not holding you at gunpoint to buy these products and indeed if you write a bad review and justify it (remember its as important as justifying why its good!) then people and the suppliers will listen to what you have to say. But you are not 'always' going to go on a recommendation from a website?

Nearly every product I have purchased has been on my own choice having looked at what the Pro's use trusting people I personally trusted like Daffy, Johnnyopolis and Bill. Took note of what they used, on their cars. I decided that I'd rather trust myself than the review of another. That way I could not be angry at a bad review, I only had myself to blame.

Trip Advisors number one hotel in Dubai for the last year.....stayed in it August last summer. It was not as good as the one in 3rd in my opinion, having stayed there the year before that. I'll now return to the one in third having tried it out myself.

Sometimes you need to try all the baked beans on the shelf in Tesco before you realise the Heinz ones are the best. I've never gone on a baked beans review website. That would be as odd as going on a car washing website! Oh wait....

People told me Zaino Z2 was a pain to apply and did not work for them and that it was not as superior as another brand. I bought some, tried it. Loved it. Was well happy with it. And have since recommended it.

To those who take the time to review products and feed it back to the community. Thank you. It is what makes a community like this and goes a long way to getting back what detailing and this forum used to be about. And before anyone says I'm banging the 'old days drum' it is still there that 'thing' it just gets lost in volume and noise.

Happy days. Chin up!


----------



## Bratwurst

King Eric said:


> Sometimes you need to try all the baked beans on the shelf in Tesco before you realise the Heinz ones are the best.


There is no _'best'_... 

:lol:

:thumb:


----------



## nick.s

Concours Car Care said:


> Course you can mate
> 
> Got loads in the fridge


I'll be round!



wee_green_mini said:


> There is no _'best'_...
> 
> :lol:
> 
> :thumb:


Just personal preference


----------



## King Eric

wee_green_mini said:


> There is no _'best'_...
> 
> :lol:
> 
> :thumb:


Heinz have paid me a lot of money to say that!


----------



## Bratwurst

:lol::lol::lol:

:thumb:


----------



## JakeWhite

Branston bakes beans for me


----------



## Sirmally2

JakeWhite said:


> Branston bakes beans for me


Oh yes +1 there jake :thumb:


----------



## JakeWhite

Sirmally2 said:


> Oh yes +1 there jake :thumb:


Beanz Meanz......Branzton :thumb::tumbleweed:


----------



## markbob917

i bet this 'other planet' king eric is on is very gaseous due to all them beans :lol:


----------



## AndyC

markbob917 said:


> i bet this 'other planet' king eric is on is very gaseous due to all them beans :lol:


He's been on another planet for as long as I've known him and to be fair he isn't the one chucking out the noxious gases usually. Unless he's eaten a particularly potent curry in which case avoid the South of England at all costs.

And he can bang the good old days drum as loudly as he wants - it's a very fair point indeed :thumb:


----------



## Ratchet

This is the reason i decided to join DW, for honest advice and tips on different methods used, and to read reviews of products, in the hope that the reviews would reflect on how good or bad a product is.

I myself give people my honest opinion, regardless of what other people may say in response, isn't that what forums like this are for. 

At the end of the day everyone has there favorite brand, but surely if we all stuck to the same brand, then what would be the point of this forum, apart from people showing what results they have got when using the same product as everyone else. 

Which IMHO would make it one boring place to be.

I have only just joined the forum and have come across this already (not personally just what I've read in some threads), as people will shout praises from the roof tops for one brand that they think is the dogs, but as soon as someone comes along and say something that is negative about that product or brand then everyone jumps on the band wagon, having a dig, which in turn makes it harder for those that have a genuine comment to say nothing.

Is it all about marketing, or are people on here like sheep?


----------



## R0B

Baaaaaaaaa :lol:


----------



## Deano

It isn't just DW members that do it though is it mate. AV forums have fans of certain brands, gamer forums are terrible for it and even marque specific car forums have people arguing and defending which is the best engine. Everton and liverpool fans, city and united fans, ford fans and holden fans in OZ, it's human nature to have a favourite. 

the only way to stop this would to be lock or remove any thread were a difference of opinion occurs, but if we do that, can you imagine the backlash?


----------



## Sirmally2

Ratchet said:


> Is it all about marketing, or are people on here like sheep?


You will find that people here are far from sheep... Let alone sheepish when they have an opinion. People will follow a certain brand because they like it. Personally on a detail i vary all of my options right across the board.

I have stuff from Valet Pro, Autoglym, Autobrite, Concours CC, Swissvax, Zymol, Simoniz, Menz, Chemical Guys, 3M, Car-Pro, Autosmart etc. just some that roll off the top of my head. They all have their fantastic products, and all of them have their not so good products. They all strive to be the best out there and i don't think even if i could i would be able to do a full detail without deviating off one range to use a product from another.

I've always tried different products with others. Some work, some dont. Some have been a complete and epic fail but its all about trial and error. If i have a method that works for me, i'll post it. If it didnt work, still post it and see if anybody else has tried it.

All in all this place is a fantastic place, in all walks of life you will find people who will follow certain brands / Products and claim it to be a revolution. That's not necissarily a bad thing. If you get it, doesnt work for you bang it in the sales / swaps section, thats the beauty of DW.

Some may shoot you down but you've given your opinion, which to me is what having an open forum is all about :thumb:

(Please note this is one of my many opinions :lol


----------



## JJ_

james_death said:


> *To my mind, the term weekend warrior is more an inexperienced machine polisher *


*

The term weekend warrior came over from Autopia back when DW started back in 2005. Meguiars UK was the only forum the UK detailers at that time could use and you couldnt really discuss other manufacturers or rather it wasn't fair to do so. So in light of that DW started.

Weekend Warrior just meant you weren't doing this as a full time job, doesn't really identify to how much knowledge you have.*


----------



## HeavenlyDetail

People have the chance to voice their opinion here now i see , im sure loads of people in this thread will add their name , be interesting to see who actually does.. :thumb:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=248195


----------



## The Cueball

HeavenlyDetail said:


> People have the chance to voice their opinion here now i see , im sure loads of people in this thread will add their name , be interesting to see who actually does.. :thumb:
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=248195


since this thread isn't about that, and never was, I really don't see the point in the new thread...

as I have stated many times, the point of this thread was people getting more than their fair share of flack for saying they don't like certain products... getting abusive PMs etc etc...

not really sure how many times I can point that out 

:thumb:


----------



## Danno1975

Deano said:


> It isn't just DW members that do it though is it mate. AV forums have fans of certain brands, gamer forums are terrible for it and even marque specific car forums have people arguing and defending which is the best engine. Everton and liverpool fans, city and united fans, ford fans and holden fans in OZ, it's human nature to have a favourite.
> 
> the only way to stop this would to be lock or remove any thread were a difference of opinion occurs, but if we do that, can you imagine the backlash?


Lol, let's talk apple or android forums , talking fan boys


----------



## Guest

JJ_ said:


> The term weekend warrior came over from Autopia back when DW started back in 2005. Meguiars UK was the only forum the UK detailers at that time could use and you couldnt really discuss other manufacturers or rather it wasn't fair to do so. So in light of that DW started.
> 
> Weekend Warrior just meant you weren't doing this as a full time job, doesn't really identify to how much knowledge you have.


or another phrase used is "them bloody weekender's taking work from us pro's"
tbh i can see why some professional valeters / detailers get annoyed there are some guys out there and i work with a couple of lads who have bought a lot of equipment who, buff/machine polish,correct paint call it what you want
without using a ptg or even claying the car first and even do the whole thing in less than 3 hours and ive seen the results SHOCKING, but were not all like that,just annoys me and a few others that certain people look down on the enthusiast at the end of the day its a forum for all who enjoy cleaning cars,and ill say it again if it wasn't for the enthusiast weekender or weekend warrior call them what you want some on here wouldn't sell half as much of there products as they do .......... oh and yes i am waiting for a sarcastic reply or a stupid keyboard warrior picture reply there boring now.


----------



## 182_Blue

It was never about that then ?



The Cueball said:


> since this thread isn't about that, and never was, I really don't see the point in the new thread...
> 
> as I have stated many times, the point of this thread was people getting more than their fair share of flack for saying they don't like certain products... getting abusive PMs etc etc...
> 
> not really sure how many times I can point that out
> 
> :thumb:


Reading this part definitely gave me that impression !!, truly i am not having a go at you but if i got that impression then i am sure a few others have .



> It seems to me that every new product/range that comes out is 100% amazing, it's super doper great and nothing else compares... I see this with normal people, and unfortunately with the "official" review team...
> 
> Now I know that at least one of these people that used to review products actually worked for the company in question, but I wonder how many others are being giving "gifts" or being coerced into giving great reviews..... Simply put, not everything can be great all of the time... why don't/can't we show that on DW?!?!?
> 
> Are the people that give reviews, any reviews, unable to be neutral and genuine with their thoughts... do they think that they must show a favourable review to justify the thread, or their place on "the team", are they really, honestly being neutral???.


----------



## bigmc

Must admit Shaun I've never read a review that's slated a product for being poor/worse than it's competitors etc.


----------



## Sirmally2

The Cueball said:


> since this thread isn't about that, and never was, I really don't see the point in the new thread...
> 
> as I have stated many times, the point of this thread was people getting more than their fair share of flack for saying they don't like certain products... getting abusive PMs etc etc...
> 
> not really sure how many times I can point that out
> 
> :thumb:


I agree,

But from things ive read throughout this thread there has been people suggesting or hinting along the lines of the DW admin, moderation and review team are for anything other than a better phrase "on the take."

I'm not saying your original OP that you implied anything, but some people on here appear to think that they are, and i can see why the admins now want this putting to bed.

What i don't understand tho is if thats what people genuinely believe, why are they still here. At least they now have their chance to pipe up and be removed.

Thanks cuey for starting the thread and giving people somewhere to voice their opinions about it, and thanks to the admins for letting it run on for so long, at least in a fortnight we will see if anybody really does vote with their feet :thumb:

I'm still adimant that this IS the best forum on the internet!!!


----------



## Deano

bigmc said:


> Must admit Shaun I've never read a review that's slated a product for being poor/worse than it's competitors etc.


Each product is reviewed on its own merits as the reviewer may never have used its competition. This has been mentioned in this thread before. Granted there aren't many that get slated, but like i mentioned earlier, the manufacturers know their onions and will only release a product for review once it's A1. there are several reviews on the first page (a couple by yours truly) were a grade hasn't been given because we cannot comment on its durability yet. One review of a clay system describes it as "very bold statement that unfortunately it doesnt live up to. ". I'd also like to point out that all products come through to Mick and myself and a trader/manufacturer doesn't know who will or has tested the product until the review is up and posted.

anyway, i'm done explaining myself and trying to vindicate our review team.


----------



## -Kev-

time for a....


----------



## The Cueball

Shaun said:


> It was never about that then ?
> 
> Reading this part definitely gave me that impression !!,truly i am not having a go at you but if i got that impression then i am sure a few others have .


I see another person missing out the "I wonder" bit...so, once again, no it wasn't about that.... people have taken it the wrong way and decided to focus on that "outrage" instead of what the post was really about...

I have made this clear several times, and explained myself to Viper and Whizzer.... but you can of course choose to believe what you want....I can't stop you....and like Deano, I'm through explaining myself....

:thumb:


----------



## Deano

isn't that a bit like starting a sentence with "with all due respect", and then calling someone a ****? not trying to cause an argument but look at it from this side. If i posted a thread saying "i wonder if cueball takes back handers at work?" does that mean the addition of "i wonder" would stop it being an allegation?


----------



## nick.s

bigmc said:


> Must admit Shaun I've never read a review that's slated a product for being poor/worse than it's competitors etc.


In addition to what Deano has written, we're asked to not compare directly to other products, as that's not what the review is about.

Ultimately when I write mine, I interpret it as 'does the product do what it says on the tin?'. And I work it like that. Granted it may not do it as well as product X, but I'll drop that in there somehow in such a way as 'did not live up to expectations' or 'left me a bit underwhelmed'. That way, we're not putting DW into a position where the official review is saying 'Product X is better than Product Y' because I dare say that some companies might take umbrage.

Just my 2p worth there


----------



## The Cueball

Deano said:


> isn't that a bit like starting a sentence with "with all due respect", and then calling someone a ****? not trying to cause an argument but look at it from this side. If i posted a thread saying "i wonder if cueball takes back handers at work?" does that mean the addition of "i wonder" would stop it being an allegation?


if you say so...if you wonder that, and think that about me, then good on you... 

you can say anything you like about me, I couldn't care less, it's only words... 

:thumb:


----------



## Ronnie

bigmc said:


> Must admit Shaun I've never read a review that's slated a product for being poor/worse than it's competitors etc.


I feel that I as a manufacturer have to reply to this... I would say that all manufacturers would also believe the same. DW is the last place I personally showcase any products. Why simply because it is within the domain of the end user. all products are tested and retested and it for us is only production ready samples or finished product we send for review. Yes we do send some preproduction products for testing where we use a few people who are customers/friends/professional detailers/ keen hobbyists/individuals who have shown an interest in our products. Here we have feed back and have tweaked products or taken on board recommendations that we have been given. I have an utmost respect for DW and in noway mean the following remark as a derogitory comment but DW is a small community when it comes to the car scene in general. It does not pay to promote a bad product through back handed gestures simply as it does not put food on the table and if you start getting the name as sub standard products it takes a very short time for that bad reputation to get about.

Personally I feel this thread has gone round and round in circles, its a personal perception if you believe the team is dodgy then them saying they are not will hardly alter your perception and if you think we are bribing the DW team then me saying we dont will also not make you change your mind. We all pretty much get on tgether even though we are in competition for business the products are generally of a high standard and bad reviews are going to be rare, I have however seen a few very average ones being posted.


----------



## Deano

The Cueball said:


> if you say so...
> 
> you can say anything you like about me, I couldn't care less, it's only words...
> 
> :thumb:


wish i'd put money on that answer.

Well as we have learned, not everyone is the same, and no i wouldn't say anything i like about you or anyone for that matter, because it isn't only words when it has an adverse effect on something. anyway, i'm done. vipers thread is was it is.


----------



## chillly

Deano said:


> *Each product is reviewed on its own merits as the reviewer may never have used its competition*. This has been mentioned in this thread before. Granted there aren't many that get slated, but like i mentioned earlier, the manufacturers know their onions and will only release a product for review once it's A1. there are several reviews on the first page (a couple by yours truly) were a grade hasn't been given because we cannot comment on its durability yet. One review of a clay system describes it as "very bold statement that unfortunately it doesnt live up to. ". I'd also like to point out that all products come through to Mick and myself and a trader/manufacturer doen't know who will or has tested the product until the review is up and posted.


Thats a good point mate. As a suggestion maybe they could be for future tests?

Also as the review team review a product then maybe it can be left open for others to add there reviews also once they have used it?

Lets be honest we will all have a view of something on the day and 6 months later we change our mind and try something else:speechles But for what its worth we as a forum must be allowed to give our opinions on something good or bad, otherwise there is no point being on here.

To be frank i think this forum is very honest and open any way. How many people go into the likes of tesco,currys,ford.audi and start grilling them like we grill our selves on here and i think the reason we do is because of the passion we all have for detailing:thumb:. Every manufacture will promote his product as the best thing since sliced bread on DW and every other industry.

Imho still a great thread:thumb:


----------



## -Kev-

good point Chilly. i think the review section should be left for the offical team though, nothing to stop others from posting a review of a product in the relivent section though


----------



## J1ODY A

The Cueball said:


> if you say so...if you wonder that, and think that about me, then good on you...
> 
> *you can say anything you like about me, I couldn't care less, it's only words... *
> 
> :thumb:


Baldy...

Think I took the moral high ground with that one.


----------



## The Cueball

J1ODY A said:


> Baldy...
> 
> Think I took the moral high ground with that one.


:lol:

can you believe some people think that's an insult?!?!?


----------



## Derekh929

chillly said:


> Thats a good point mate. As a suggestion maybe they could be for future tests?
> 
> Also as the review team review a product then maybe it can be left open for others to add there reviews also once they have used it?
> 
> Lets be honest we will all have a view of something on the day and 6 months later we change our mind and try something else:speechles But for what its worth we as a forum must be allowed to give our opinions on something good or bad, otherwise there is no point being on here.
> 
> To be frank i think this forum is very honest and open any way. How many people go into the likes of tesco,currys,ford.audi and start grilling them like we grill our selves on here and i think the reason we do is because of the passion we all have for detailing:thumb:. Every manufacture will promote his product as the best thing since sliced bread on DW and every other industry.
> 
> Imho still a great thread:thumb:


Chilly you have made some excellent points IMHO and i think you always have to remain open to change and some may work some may not


----------



## jimmy669966

Can't believe this thread is still going. You'd swear it was on the same scale as the MP's expenses scandal. 

I suspect that the OP probably thought that the reviews could do with being a bit more strict/critical. Half heartedly thought there may be some allegiances/favouritism/whatever and then engaged typing fingers before brain and didn't really think of the seriousness/offence the implied allegation could cause, but judging by his responses is too stubborn to back down.


----------



## Deano

chillly said:


> Thats a good point mate. *As a suggestion maybe they could be for future tests?*
> 
> Also as the review team review a product then maybe it can be left open for others to add there reviews also once they have used it?
> 
> Lets be honest we will all have a view of something on the day and 6 months later we change our mind and try something else:speechles But for what its worth we as a forum must be allowed to give our opinions on something good or bad, otherwise there is no point being on here.
> 
> To be frank i think this forum is very honest and open any way. How many people go into the likes of tesco,currys,ford.audi and start grilling them like we grill our selves on here and i think the reason we do is because of the passion we all have for detailing:thumb:. Every manufacture will promote his product as the best thing since sliced bread on DW and every other industry.
> 
> Imho still a great thread:thumb:


appreciate the input matey. 

only prob with that, is determining what is the competitor? if we compare a product to another, the manufacturer is well within their right to say "whoa! we arent up against that, why are you comparing it?" or if we asked a manufacturer i dont think they'd be keen anyway to say what product they are "aiming" it at. also, getting reviewers that have actually used both products would be time consuming and the manufacturers would soon get cheesed at us for taking ages.

Like i've said, myself, mick and spoony, have looked at a lot of variables before deciding on the current format. thats not to say it'll stay the same forever, but we believe what we have now is a good balance.


----------



## JakeWhite

nick.s said:


> In addition to what Deano has written, we're asked to not compare directly to other products, as that's not what the review is about.
> 
> Ultimately when I write mine, I interpret it as 'does the product do what it says on the tin?'. And I work it like that. Granted it may not do it as well as product X, but I'll drop that in there somehow in such a way as 'did not live up to expectations' or 'left me a bit underwhelmed'. That way, we're not putting DW into a position where the official review is saying 'Product X is better than Product Y' because I dare say that some companies might take umbrage.
> 
> Just my 2p worth there


This is how I always do any reviews, try not to let it become a stand-off between x and y product. Just focus on what's being reviewed and how that particular product performs with that particular set of instructions as I'm sure this is what a review is? Sure I'll say if I'm disappointed but I won't say it as " I'm disappointed in X because it's not as good as Y that i tried last week" because no two products are exactly identical. Can I also say guys, as a enthusiast that's trying new things all the time, I've genuinely got on with 99% of my products and most of my arsenal is influenced by reviews on here and traders recommendation, I also apply common sense to know when something may not be worth going for :thumb: I think there's only 1 or 2 products I've been let down by and that's an air freshener and an APC so not really a bother to me so much. This is my own opinion of course.


----------



## The Cueball

jimmy669966 said:


> Can't believe this thread is still going. You'd swear it was on the same scale as the MP's expenses scandal.
> 
> I suspect that the OP probably thought that the reviews could do with being a bit more strict/critical. Half heartedly thought there may be some allegiances/favouritism/whatever and then engaged typing fingers before brain and didn't really think of the seriousness/offence the implied allegation could cause, but judging by his responses is too stubborn to back down.


nothing about being stubborn, I am and always have been big enough to know and understand when I have made a mistake, and I am the first to admit it..I make mistakes and say sorry for them every day...

I have explained myself, as I have already said...several times, both on here and in my messages to the mods.

but at least you got the point, thanks..

:thumb:


----------



## J1ODY A

The Cueball said:


> :lol:
> 
> can you believe some people think that's an insult?!?!?


Only my kids dare call me it :thumb:


----------



## silverback

cuey, you remind me of "ricky bobby" :lol:


----------



## JakeWhite

silverback said:


> cuey, you remind me of "ricky bobby" :lol:


:lol::lol: epic film!!! "With all due respect mr dennit, I had no idea you'd had experimental surgery to get your balls removed"


----------



## The Cueball

must have been were I got the idea from 

:thumb:


----------



## JakeWhite

The Cueball said:


> must have been were I got the idea from
> 
> :thumb:


Cuey, ricky bobby is a legend! surely that says something? "Maybe offensive sometimes but it's hard not to love him" :lol:


----------



## The_Bouncer

Why not set up a DW review ID that all products get reviewed under ?

So instead of a specific person the review team of 4 ( or however many there are, I'm not sure ) people just post under the same umbrella ID, i.e DW REVIEWER ? using the template review guidelines.

?

:wave:


----------



## Deano

The_Bouncer said:


> Why not set up a DW review ID that all products get reviewed under ?
> 
> So instead of a specific person the review team of 4 ( or however many there are, I'm not sure ) people just post under the same umbrella ID, i.e DW REVIEWER ? using the template review guidelines.
> 
> ?
> 
> :wave:


we did mate and there was a reason why we stopped it. its eluding me at the mo.  wont be a tick.....


----------



## Deano

ah that's it. manufacturers were PMing review team members asking who to contact for offering stuff up when we wanted it to come through myself and mick directly so we could see who was doing and getting what, which they all did.

any review in the official section is done by a member (or former member) of the review team.


----------



## mirra_finish

This has nothing to do with the actual topic, but 32 pages in 3 days!!

Is this a record????


----------



## Deano

no chance. a certain four part GC thread annihilates this. :lol:


----------



## The Cueball

Deano said:


> no chance. a certain four part GC thread annihilates this. :lol:


is that still going?!? :doublesho

:lol:


----------



## PugIain

The Cueball said:


> is that still going?!? :doublesho
> 
> :lol:


Oh yes,treat yourself to an ogle. I mean look.


----------



## mirra_finish

Now I'm really showing my ignorance, but what is a GC thread??


----------



## PugIain

mirra_finish said:


> Now I'm really showing my ignorance, but what is a GC thread??


Im assuming its the ones with the bums in it.Thats the one I mostly look at anyway....
In the Gentlemans club section.You need to apply in the thread to view it.


----------



## Sirmally2

Oh yes... i check back frequently!!! :lol:


----------



## tzotzo

Hello there. 
I don't think review team is on the take.
But its more than obvious that when someone asks for an opinion all the opinions are totally biased.

"what is the best shampoo?"

Lather
Lather
Lather
B2BM
Lather 
B2BM

same pattern all around.

The funny thing is that the suggesters haven't tried any other shampoo(glaze polish pad APC Clay etc) apart from the one they suggest.


----------



## PugIain

tzotzo said:


> Hello there.
> I don't think review team is on the take.
> But its more than obvious that when someone asks for an opinion all the opinions are totally biased.
> 
> "what is the best shampoo?"
> 
> Lather
> Lather
> Lather
> B2BM
> Lather
> B2BM
> 
> same pattern all around.
> 
> The funny thing is that the suggesters haven't tried any other shampoo(glaze polish pad APC Clay etc) apart from the one they suggest.


Very rarely is it an off the shelf product either.Which sometimes isnt that helpful as either youll need a credit card to order the stuff off the net or need to know a Rep to buy from them.
Nowt wrong in saying try X from Asda or somewhere,people wont think youre less of a person if you dont pointlessly spend £956.48p on glass cleaner or APC with a brand name on it.
I use cheap **** and Im proud.Means more money for actually living.


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## moosh

Is this still ranting on? We should change the title to rant or no rant :thumb:


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## The Cueball

moosh said:


> Is this still ranting on? We should change the title to rant or no rant :thumb:


I know :wall:

I just wanted to know if anyone else had noticed that people were being 'jumped' on for not agreeing with the masses... and if because of that, some people were just saying things were great so that they didn't get picked on...

it's been blown all out of portion and words twisted from what they were actually saying... shame...but there you go...

:thumb:

<edit.. maybe if I had just wrote it like that in the first place, we could have saved 190 pages and actually spoke about the real topic in question... ahhhh well...  edit>


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## Deano

tzotzo said:


> Hello there.
> I don't think review team is on the take.
> But its more than obvious that when someone asks for an opinion all the opinions are totally biased.
> 
> "what is the best shampoo?"
> 
> Lather
> Lather
> Lather
> B2BM
> Lather
> B2BM
> 
> same pattern all around.
> 
> The funny thing is that the suggesters haven't tried any other shampoo(glaze polish pad APC Clay etc) apart from the one they suggest.


they cant suggest something they haven't tried though can they? how is an opinion biased if the person believes it is the best shampoo etc they have tried? How do you know if it is biased?

anyway i'm getting dragged in again :lol:


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## chrisc

PugIain said:


> Very rarely is it an off the shelf product either.Which sometimes isnt that helpful as either youll need a credit card to order the stuff off the net or need to know a Rep to buy from them.
> Nowt wrong in saying try X from Asda or somewhere,people wont think youre less of a person if you dont pointlessly spend £956.48p on glass cleaner or APC with a brand name on it.
> I use cheap **** and Im proud.Means more money for actually living.


look at james deaths posts on reviews he's tested £1 products.And very good reviews i say so my self:thumb:


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## jimmy669966

PugIain said:


> Very rarely is it an off the shelf product either.Which sometimes isnt that helpful as either youll need a credit card to order the stuff off the net or need to know a Rep to buy from them.
> Nowt wrong in saying try X from Asda or somewhere,people wont think youre less of a person if you dont pointlessly spend £956.48p on glass cleaner or APC with a brand name on it.
> *I use cheap **** and Im proud.Means more money for actually living*.


That would be a good experiment, two equally skilled pros, one with all the expensive (boutique) gear they want and another with stuff you can buy in halfords.

I bet the difference would be negligible.


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## Ross

jimmy669966 said:


> That would be a good experiment, two equally skilled pros, one with all the expensive (boutique) gear they want and another with stuff you can buy in halfords.
> 
> I bet the difference would be negligible.


Your forgetting about there ego's.......


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## PugIain

jimmy669966 said:


> That would be a good experiment, two equally skilled pros, one with all the expensive (boutique) gear they want and another with stuff you can buy in halfords.
> 
> I bet the difference would be negligible.


Yep,My car is still shiney with whatever wax I put on it.Poundshop wax or otherwise.Expensive products are nice as using like an expensive wax is an event but theyre not the be all and end all.
Although I do takes bribes for favourable reviews.
Sorry 



chrisc said:


> look at james deaths posts on reviews he's tested £1 products.And very good reviews i say so my self:thumb:


Yep and also Avanti has done a few threads showing cheaper products off too.


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## Deano

if anyone feels they are getting bullied, or indeed, if they see someone being harassed for anything, never mind because of what product they use, please report the post or PM one of us and we will look at it. if that had happened in the first place, we wouldn't have 33 pages of frayed tempers. :thumb:

of course we wont be telling people off for having an opinion, but there are ways to communicate with people, and bullying or being jumped on isn't the way.


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## moosh

The Cueball said:


> I know :wall:
> 
> I just wanted to know if anyone else had noticed that people were being 'jumped' on for not agreeing with the masses... and if because of that, some people were just saying things were great so that they didn't get picked on...
> 
> it's been blown all out of portion and words twisted from what they were actually saying... shame...but there you go...
> 
> :thumb:
> 
> <edit.. maybe if I had just wrote it like that in the first place, we could have saved 190 pages and actually spoke about the real topic in question... ahhhh well...  edit>


I got what you were saying in your opening post cue, seems that's been lost and its a stab at everthing else now 

I bought many a product on rave reviews and been uber disapointed with it when it comes, like blacklight for instance, I bought it as it got great reviews and first and was the next big thing! Bought it and gave it a run out on 5 different cars, all different colours, paint types, different manufacturers, different years. Found it to be no use on any, didn't performance or last long. Returned here and shared my thoughts and got flamed for it BUT thankfully because I said it others came out of the wood work to also agree.

Might I add none of the reviews I would say were by the official review team, more other strong members/regulars and I've since realised some sponsored pro!

The review teams reviews are great and I've agreed with 99% of the reviews but each to there own.

One I haven't heard that much about but tried it out yesterday was magifoam and its by far the best I have tried, its actually a true foam and went on like icecream :thumb:


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## Ross

Glossworkz shampoo springs to mind,one of the most overrated products I have ever used.


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## moosh

Ross said:


> Glossworkz shampoo springs to mind,one of the most overrated products I have ever used.


100% agree! :thumb: the smell even gives me a headache!


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## Ross

Its only used for alloys now.


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## JJ_

Ross said:


> Glossworkz shampoo springs to mind,one of the most overrated products I have ever used.


Nice change of subject, I quite like shampoo plus still

Im OLLLLLLLLLLLLD SCHOOOOOOOOOL :doublesho


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## Ross

SP is a good shampoo.


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## Deano

going OT now lads, are we done with this?


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## JJ_

Deano said:


> going OT now lads, are we done with this?


Just trying to bring back the DW family. :driver:


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## astrachamp

all i want to know is if hd wax is worth the money?


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## andy monty

PugIain said:


> Very rarely is it an off the shelf product either.Which sometimes isnt that helpful as either youll need a credit card to order the stuff off the net or need to know a Rep to buy from them.
> Nowt wrong in saying try X from Asda or somewhere,people wont think youre less of a person if you dont pointlessly spend £956.48p on glass cleaner or APC with a brand name on it.
> I use cheap **** and Im proud.Means more money for actually living.


Few miles further north on the right side of the humber we would be able to call you a tight Yorkshire man  :wave:


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## andy monty

astrachamp said:


> all i want to know is if hd wax is worth the money?


Yes.......


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## PugIain

andy monty said:


> Few miles further north on the right side of the humber we would be able to call you a tight Yorkshire man  :wave:


90% of my family are!


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## andy monty

must be Genetic then ;-) (Hello from Goole) :wave:


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## PugIain

andy monty said:


> must be Genetic then ;-) (Hello from Goole) :wave:


Ask my mrs,she swears it is.Shes mental though. :wave:


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## Aero

I had a disagreement with admin a little while ago (not related to anything mentioned in this thread) I completely understood where they were coming from I just wasn't very happy about it. The point is I do believe admin and mods do a good job so I am surprised and disappointed by comments in this thread. If some people asked themselves before posting is my comment constructive then this site would run a lot smoother.



HeavenlyDetail said:


> People have the chance to voice their opinion here now i see , im sure loads of people in this thread will add their name , be interesting to see who actually does.. :thumb:
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=248195


:thumb:


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## astrachamp

andy monty said:


> Yes.......


YUM! cannae beat a can fresh unbranded worms!


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## james_death

JJ_ said:


> The term weekend warrior came over from Autopia back when DW started back in 2005. Meguiars UK was the only forum the UK detailers at that time could use and you couldnt really discuss other manufacturers or rather it wasn't fair to do so. So in light of that DW started.
> 
> Weekend Warrior just meant you weren't doing this as a full time job, doesn't really identify to how much knowledge you have.


Thanks for clarifying that.... However i would only imagine the word in the context of my post... Too general viewed as a derogatory word otherwise for me...

Thanks for clarifying all the same...:thumb:


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## james_death

*Do we all think this thread is good to close now????

Please indicate by leaving your thanks at the bottom of this post Please...*


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## -Kev-

yes, but you ain't having a thanks


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## JJ_

andy monty said:


> Yes.......


I am a vegan and I find that offensive.

Just kidding. :car:


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## james_death

-Kev- said:


> yes, but you ain't having a thanks


:lol::lol::lol::lol:

I did think about just adding names cut and paste job each time.....

But that takes more and more posts...:lol:

Though the thanks bit would keep them all together.... then realised it could bump my thanks count up...:lol: Was not intention.....

Im not bothered... Honest....


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## WHIZZER

Ok we have let the thread run it course now - Its going on and off topic now so I think its time to close


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