# Product X - Preproduction Wax Test



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

This is the first review of a pre production wax which as of yet does not have a name. However I felt that it would be valuable for folk to see the evaluation of this wax through this development phase. In order to remove any preconceptions that may be made from the name of the wax, I am omitting for the time being to mention the manufacturer of this wax - though they may well chime into this thread to reveal themselves. However, as this wax is likely to enter the market into the £100 region I am removing this factor of consideration from the evaluation of the wax to get a true feeling about the performance of the product.

With a projected market price of circa £100, this product is aiming squarely at the Dodo Supernatural Wax (if the packaging can live up to the wood) and the big name contenders such as Swissvax Best of Show and ***** Glasur and ***** Concours even. The wax feels aimed at the latter most wax with the aim of undercutting it on price but matching its performance.

So, we will be judging this wax in this level and looking for any enhancement given to look on cars and also the durability and water behaviour delivered by the wax.

So in the first of its trials, meet Bryan's new car - a black metallic Renault Clio. This car has had no machine polishing preparation and is as new from the dealership. The car has had two layers of the wax applied to it for assessment of any looks added and also for assessment of durability. The wax will be tested over the coming weeks and months.

Darkness only pictures thus far alas, what comes with working 7 days a week in the lab, I see little sun! Daylight pictures will follow on this car however and on future test cars as durability and looks will be assessed on different cars to assess different colours and different environments.
A section of the car before waxing…










Applying the wax is easy. Its very oily and spreads with great ease over a large area with only a very small amount…










Now the most important thing with this wax is only to leave it to cure for about 1 minute…










Providing the wax is only left a very short time it will remove easily…










Revealing a finish as shown:





































In the flesh the wax added a slightly glazed look to the paint, rather like Swissvax Best of Show and I suspect this is in part down to the very oily feel of the wax contributing to its ability to add a little to the look of this paint. The flake ping is unaffected which is another plus point.
One issue was discovered at this stage however and that is the extreme difficulties in removing if the wax is left for any length of time - even just more than a couple of minutes the residue seems to harden and then weld to the paint. This is not a disaster as using the applicator with a little more wax you can soften this residue and make it a cinch to remove again but this is something which really should be noted - this is an apply and remove straight away product and should not be left any length of time. 
Water behaviour is particularly impressive from this wax as the video shows:



Note that with a spray of water, it is dispersed very quickly from the panel and would easily compete with the highly impressive Collinite 915 which is what I instantly thought of when I saw the water performance. It is impressive, and outstrips the likes of ***** Concours in this respect which is a big plus point for it and shows its intentions well!

In brief summary of this first viewing of the wax, it does appear to deliver a little extra to the look (though the amount, in common with any LSP, is very small) and it delivers it in a way similar to Swissvax BoS. This is backed up with seriously good water repellancy (cosmetic, but highly valued effect). The only issue thus far is with application so any potential packaging for this product would have to make this application method crystal clear to avoid issues. So long as the product is applied and removed within a minute or two then all's well.

A very good first outing for this preproduction wax and I look forward to further testing to see truly what it is capable of! The wax name will be revealed when the wax actually has a name!


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Bilt Hamber perhaps? I have the same issues with Auto Balm re leaving it on too long!


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Wonderdetail said:


> Bilt Hamber perhaps? I have the same issues with Auto Balm re leaving it on too long!


Nope, its a wax rather than a sealent, and it is pre-production.


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

The beading/sheeting looks quite impressive, have you any outdoor shots of the finish the wax gives as it doesn't look to great under the lights?


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## -ROM- (Feb 23, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> Nope, its a wax rather than a sealent, and it is pre-production.


dave is this the wax we spoke about in PM a little while ago?


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Dave KG said:


> Nope, its a wax rather than a sealent, and it is pre-production.


I know - hence why i thought it might be BH branching out


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Very interesting Dave!  Another high(ish) end wax at a time when sealants seem to be all the rage!

Great beading and sheeting! :thumb: Fingers crossed the durability is very good also.

Do we know the manufacturer? 

Alan W


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> Nope, its a wax rather than a sealent, and it is pre-production.


It looks like a very good performer. 

However, I think that if the recipe is divulged you will probably find that it is as much 'sealant' than 'wax'. You simply can't get performance of this kind without the addition of some modern and extremely useful synthetic ingredients.

It's an interesting point as we have tested more and more 'waxes' in the market and even though they have a natural base (beeswax, carnauba) many are using a cheaper microcrystalline wax and all synthetic ingredients to enhance performance. No bad thing. But treat the divide between waxes and sealants with caution. I'm not sure there necessarily is one, or at least not in the high performance paste wax sector. Maybe we should just call everything LSP?


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Can't see any pics on my phone here in the Alps  but I'm with Dom regarding the divide of wax and sealant. I think it is a blurry line at best and one that is irrelevant to me, as they are all just different lsp's serving the same purpose.

Look forward to checking this out in more depth and following your updates Dave!


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Wonderdetail said:


> I know - hence why i thought it might be BH branching out


I'd be suspicious of it being BH since it's £100 (way over priced!) and whilst they openly admitted to looking at modifying carnauba again, the price point just doesn't sit with their ethos, especially as they readily acknowledge one ingredient in AB is 6x the price of T1 carnauba for the same volume/weight.

So, I'd have to say, I'm more than certain it isn't BH, and likely to be an existing wax manufacturer.
Autoglym springs to mind, but then it could be any one of a dozen potential knowns, and a handful of unknowns looking to break into the market with a boutique wax, rather than a run-of-the-mill entry.


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## -ROM- (Feb 23, 2007)

PJS said:


> *I'd be suspicious of it being BH since it's £100 (way over priced!)* and whilst they openly admitted to looking at modifying carnauba again, the price point just doesn't sit with their ethos, especially as they readily acknowledge one ingredient in AB is 6x the price of T1 carnauba for the same volume/weight.
> 
> So, I'd have to say, I'm more than certain it isn't BH, and likely to be an existing wax manufacturer.
> Autoglym springs to mind, but then it could be any one of a dozen potential knowns, and a handful of unknowns looking to break into the market with a boutique wax, rather than a run-of-the-mill entry.


Who says it's over priced?

Remember your argument for itunes charging over the odds


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Would imagine it's from an existing known company due to the price, as a complete unknown would struggle to gain any positive interest without current/previous proven products IMO.

Possibles Mk V, Megs/3m don't know just blowing in the wind.


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

rmorgan84 said:


> Who says it's over priced?
> 
> Remember your argument for itunes charging over the odds


I think Phil meant it may be overpriced for a BH product. Hence it couldn't be BH.

100 quid for an LSP seems spot on, LOL 

In all seriousness, price does depend what is in it, how much of it you get, how it is packaged. That said, there are some awesome products for 100 GBP or less and I think the days of ridiculous price tags are numbered. People just aren't as easily bluffed any more when a cheap wax or sealant can perform as well, or better, than one costing thousands.


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Nothing in detailing is overpriced. Products sell for what people are willing to pay. Take the big Z for instance - they've shifted shed loads of their higher end waxes!


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## waxy (Feb 27, 2006)

A new offering from Victoria wax?


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## mattyb95 (Apr 21, 2008)

Can you at least give us a clue Dave, is it a big name we already know making something different?


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Can you see any real difference in real world terms between this and a much lower initial cost product such as the victoria waxes?

Really hard to judge any LSP finish (there are loads of threads on this subject on DW, I think you may have seen one or two) even when done side by side, never mind by photo in a darkened shop.

Good to see yet another manufacturer identifying the ever increasing detail product market:thumb:


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## Stew (Jul 9, 2007)

I reckon it's the new max wax.........:tumbleweed:


Kidding. Well the £100 market is certainly expanding.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Dodo Factory said:


> It looks like a very good performer.
> 
> However, I think that if the recipe is divulged you will probably find that it is as much 'sealant' than 'wax'. You simply can't get performance of this kind without the addition of some modern and extremely useful synthetic ingredients.
> 
> It's an interesting point as we have tested more and more 'waxes' in the market and even though they have a natural base (beeswax, carnauba) many are using a cheaper microcrystalline wax and all synthetic ingredients to enhance performance. No bad thing. But treat the divide between waxes and sealants with caution. I'm not sure there necessarily is one, or at least not in the high performance paste wax sector. Maybe we should just call everything LSP?


Indeed yes, but then this point is relevant only if one is taking a purist look at it and only wanting, shall we say "bona fide" wax ingredients. Products have for a long time been marketed as waxes when they are infact sealent - Megs NXT Tech Wax for example, though ultimately that it is a sealent or wax is irrelevant, its the performance which is the key consideration.

It is a relevant consideration for the true make of the wax, I beleive this one is carnuaba based - but there's nothing wrong in my eye in enhancing the performance by modern technology though I appreciate this takes for some the "purity" away perhaps, if this is what you are meaning?



mattyb95 said:


> Can you at least give us a clue Dave, is it a big name we already know making something different?





waxy said:


> A new offering from Victoria wax?


Its not Victoria, and alas I remain tight lipped until the manufacturer (forum sponsor) steps in as I have been asked to.



L200 Steve said:


> Can you see any real difference in real world terms between this and a much lower initial cost product such as the victoria waxes?
> 
> Really hard to judge any LSP finish (there are loads of threads on this subject on DW, I think you may have seen one or two) even when done side by side, never mind by photo in a darkened shop.
> 
> Good to see yet another manufacturer identifying the ever increasing detail product market:thumb:


You know the answer to that Steve without needing to ask me  - Naturally, any difference is going to be very hard to spot. This wax will be going on a car prepped only by a paint cleanser soon for looks and durability assessment, as people have been recently requesting such a test, so maybe it will make more difference there but I suspect the differences between different waxes will still be nigh on impossible to spot.

Did it add anything? I would _argue_ (not state as fact) that it added a wettness like a glaze had been applied which reminded me of BoS but with Collinite beading - bit of a best of both worlds in this respect though whether or not the durability is there remains to be seen and I will update. 

But for now, I'm off to the pub to get ratted and sing like an idiot! :wave::wave:


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## d3m0n (Feb 19, 2007)

RaceGlaze?


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

rmorgan84 said:


> Who says it's over priced?
> 
> Remember your argument for itunes charging over the odds


I say it's overpriced, if that's okay with you?!
As previously, you only have to look at the cost of Collinite to raise an eyebrow of suspicion at how the price of this wax is derived. But as with every commodity consumers have the choice of, you can spend your money however you see fit.

Argument? My dear lad, there was no argument - merely a pointing out of fairly obvious reasons why someone would pay more for convenience. Think you need to re-read that post again, rather than trying to remember it from memory. Had you done so, it would've saved me from having to write this, and your embarassment at using a flawed statement to try and show me up.

Dom was mostly correct in his reading of my words, but not entirely. Even though he has a £100 wax, £30 is for the container alone. When he introduces his £250 Ultranatural wax, he can be assured I'll voice my opinions. Until then, he can breathe easy as Sn is "only" a £70 wax.


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## hartzsky (Dec 23, 2007)

Seems more and more companies have caught on to the "high $$$$ wax"..Why? Simple Huge profit margins.


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

My bets Autoglym????


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## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

Perhaps its the new Z-Y-M-0-0-0-0-L 'low end' economy wax in response to the current global financial situation.....!

:lol:


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## blr123 (Oct 26, 2005)

Dave wasn't there when I applied the first coat which was in natural daylight and the there was, for me anyway, a definate differance in appearance very "glass like" appearance with a deep gloss to the finish very impressive :thumb:

As Dave has said it is important NOT to extend the cure time beyond 1minute or so if this is done it's very easy on and easy off.

I think if this product had been at the wax test in Slough it would have been noticed for sure :thumb:

Looking forward to finding out the details of the who, the where from, the cost etc etc 

We'll try and get some daylight pictures this week although we do have a VERY (this is for another thread) messy job to do but we will try and fit it in.

Bryan


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## m0bov (May 2, 2007)

Rubbishboys I wonder?? ;-)


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## rubbishboy (May 6, 2006)

m0bov said:


> Rubbishboys I wonder?? ;-)


I like your thinking... but no cigar.


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## silver bmw z3 (Apr 30, 2007)

My money is on raceglaze.


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## mattyb95 (Apr 21, 2008)

Someone should start a sweepstake!


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## m0bov (May 2, 2007)

OK, Turtle Wax then ????


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## SimonW (Jun 3, 2007)

Blazebro said:


> My bets Autoglym????


Thats what i was thinking :thumb:


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## 3dr (Mar 1, 2008)

Autosmart?


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2008)

I'd be suprised if it was autoglym given they have only just brought a Wax out. But I could be wrong


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## essjay (Mar 27, 2007)

Could it be a new Chemicals Guys product !!

Just read the review of the new 50/50 by john and got me thinking


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## mattyb95 (Apr 21, 2008)

Thought CG already had a high end wax with their E-Zyme stuff


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## VWAlec (Aug 30, 2008)

Sonus?


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

Hmm, spreads like butter but must be removed almost immediately. Sounds a bit "Victorian" to me .


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## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

Just out of curiosity, has a time scale been given by the manufacturer from this initial pre production sample testing to production ready pots of wax?


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

yetizone said:


> Just out of curiosity, has a time scale been given by the manufacturer from this initial pre production sample testing to production ready pots of wax?


Yes it has, expected ready by end of year. Packaging is also being finalised now.

The next place for this wax will be replacing Zaino on my car and trialled for winter durability, which will be a challenge as I am particular about my car and it leads quite a hard life in the winter on salty and snowy roads.


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

TurtleWax or Sonax?


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

mattyb95 said:


> Thought CG already had a high end wax with their E-Zyme stuff


 I'm sure there's a guy on Autopia using that. Can't confirm because Autopia appears to be down right now.


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

Car Key said:


> TurtleWax or Sonax?


Don't think it's either one of those. I have the new Sonax Premium Carnauba, which is P21s 100% repackaged for the Euro market, so I don't think they'll be shooting out another any time soon.


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

Clever Nickname said:


> Don't think it's either one of those. I have the new Sonax Premium Carnauba, which is P21s 100% repackaged for the Euro market, so I don't think they'll be shooting out another any time soon.


 You may be right, but I wouldn't count out TW.

Btw, the E-Zyme wax is $275 in the States, so can't see that landing here for less than £200.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

my bet is Victoria's new wax - been a few samples floating around for a while now, so possibly the right timing for it.

Not that it really matters - we are hardly crying out for more premium waxes to choose from :lol:


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## mattyb95 (Apr 21, 2008)

Bigpikle said:


> my bet is Victoria's new wax - been a few samples floating around for a while now, so possibly the right timing for it.
> 
> Not that it really matters - we are hardly crying out for more premium waxes to choose from :lol:


Didn't Dave say its not Victoria?


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## cheezemonkhai (Jan 29, 2007)

Mr Zogs Sex Wax.... they decided after looking after surfers for years they should do the same for the cars.

Hopefully it will still smell the same as the surf wax


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

The minute I am allowed to mention the manufacturer, I will - this wax will be seeing thorough testing from me alongside three other waxes this winter (Smartwax Concours and Ioncoat Naviwax, and another as yet not named currently on my dad's Astra and doing well) as three "new to me" waxes which are also new to the market as well.

It is not Victoria, I have a sample of that and was on my car at the start of the year. Its also not Chemical Guys, Autoglym, and as Ben has said, it is not Rubbish Boys or Dodo Juice.


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Dave, it sounds like it bares more than just a fleeting similairty to Pete's 53. You say if it's left for more than 60secs it sets like a brick. Exactly the same as Pete's.

I'm not knocking it before it's released but, unless it really offers godsmacking gloss why pay £100 for something that is very similar at £19.95?


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## mattyb95 (Apr 21, 2008)

Dave KG said:


> The minute I am allowed to mention the manufacturer, I will - this wax will be seeing thorough testing from me alongside three other waxes this winter (Smartwax Concours and Ioncoat Naviwax, and another as yet not named currently on my dad's Astra and doing well) as three "new to me" waxes which are also new to the market as well.
> 
> It is not Victoria, I have a sample of that and was on my car at the start of the year. Its also not Chemical Guys, Autoglym, and as Ben has said, it is not Rubbish Boys or Dodo Juice.


He's not ruled out Raceglaze!


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Blazebro said:


> Dave, it sounds like it bares more than just a fleeting similairty to Pete's 53. You say if it's left for more than 60secs it sets like a brick. Exactly the same as Pete's.
> 
> I'm not knocking it before it's released but, unless it really offers godsmacking gloss why pay £100 for something that is very similar at £19.95?


Off the bat, its water repellancy is better than Pete's in my experience and its already lasting longer - I never got on that well with Pete's though, and much preferred the 50/50 which is what I would expect it to challenge and beat from CG.



mattyb95 said:


> He's not ruled out Raceglaze!


And its not Raceglaze


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## mattyb95 (Apr 21, 2008)

Dave KG said:


> Off the bat, its water repellancy is better than Pete's in my experience and its already lasting longer - I never got on that well with Pete's though, and much preferred the 50/50 which is what I would expect it to challenge and beat from CG.
> 
> And its not Raceglaze


Damn it!


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## GeeJay (Jun 10, 2007)

Does it really matter who the manufacturer is?!

I feel part of the issue of the 'best' wax is brand names TBH.

I mean - you've all seen the results and gotten excited, but would you care/buy it at £100 if Dave came out and said it was in fact Turtle Wax's new product?

I'm intrigued as to who's manufacturing it, but as it stands I wouldn't buy it in my 'hobbyist' stage. The more important thing to me is that it gives a good finish, and durability is well up there.


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Gleammachine said:


> Would imagine it's from an existing known company due to the price, as a complete unknown would struggle to gain any positive interest without current/previous proven products IMO.
> 
> *Possibles Mk V, Megs/3m don't know just blowing in the wind*.


Hasn't been ruled out I noticed.:devil:


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## mattyb95 (Apr 21, 2008)

GeeJay said:


> Does it really matter who the manufacturer is?!
> 
> I feel part of the issue of the 'best' wax is brand names TBH.
> 
> ...


I'm just intrigued that's all. Wont be buying it myself even if it adds a glossy nuance like no other, I have too many other waxes and sealants to use up first, I'm just like a big kid, I want to know who it is and now!


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

GeeJay said:


> Does it really matter who the manufacturer is?!
> 
> I feel part of the issue of the 'best' wax is brand names TBH.
> 
> I mean - you've all seen the results and gotten excited, but would you care/buy it at £100 if Dave came out and said it was in fact Turtle Wax's new product?


Personally I think the markets already overcrowded with waxes in and up to that price region, the difference in the finishes are minimal and the only thing that sets them apart is the durability, this seems to me more of an issue if applying to a customers car as they would expect it to last a couple of months at the least, personally if I was only applying to my own vehicle then durability wouldn't become such an issue and would probably stick to a wax under the £50 mark of which there are some excellent choices from brands with a lesser kudos.

If Turtlewax brought out a detailing/boutique range and it worked then "yes" I would use it, wether I would publisise the fact is a different matter , also wether I would pay £100 for another wax when the ones I carry already in that region are proven to work is another factor.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

GeeJay said:


> Does it really matter who the manufacturer is?!
> 
> I feel part of the issue of the 'best' wax is brand names TBH.
> 
> ...


This is partly why I am happy to post this without the actual manufacturer, as its often in this boutique wax market that name counts for a lot more than it should - so we can see this product being evaluated on performance alone, and not on brand name... You mention brand name, and its supporters will defend it and its haters will pick holes in it - whether or not they can qualitatively justify their support or criticism.


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## gug54321 (Apr 30, 2008)

does it come as a addon to the Flash carwash kit?


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## charger17 (Mar 28, 2006)

Gleammachine said:


> Hasn't been ruled out I noticed.:devil:


It's not Mark-V


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## copperman05 (Oct 1, 2008)

I think it could be Valentine's Concours Wax, says to only leave on for 1-2 mins on website and not seen it used on here yet...

http://www.valentineswax.com/index.htm

???

Edd


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## copperman05 (Oct 1, 2008)

And its nearly £100 at £95...


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

copperman05 said:


> I think it could be Valentine's Concours Wax, says to only leave on for 1-2 mins on website and not seen it used on here yet...
> 
> http://www.valentineswax.com/index.htm
> 
> ...


I was thinking of that wax myself. However, Dave has said the wax is a "*pre production wax which as of yet does not have a name*".

Alan W


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## Serious (Mar 19, 2008)

Briansbestwax?????


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## copperman05 (Oct 1, 2008)

Alan W said:


> I was thinking of that wax myself. However, Dave has said the wax is a "*pre production wax which as of yet does not have a name*".
> 
> Alan W


Have you used it? Looks interesting..

Edd


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## Robbieben (Feb 19, 2006)

Interesting test results.

Looks like it may be a good product Dave if your saying it does add a little something to the finish, of course it will need to prove it's worth to be excellent where durability is concerned to be worth the outlay of circa £100.

IMO there are a fair few waxes available in this price bracket already and IMO after trying most of them only two in my opinion offer decent durability that you could confidently offer to a paying customer. One being BoS, it's got the boutique name to help it along and if used correctly with supporting products, cleaner fluid etc will offer everything you could ask for. 

915 adds to the gloss and depth and holds it's head high in durability terms and at around 1/5th of the price.

SN v2 adds to the gloss and depth and holds it's head high in durability terms and at a lower price in a plastic pot.

CG's 50/50 v2 adds to the gloss and depth and if the origional is anything to go by will hold it's head high in terms of durability too, and at around £70 less. I'm currently comparing durability with v1 on a friends BMW.

So for my £100, I'd buy SN v2 and CG's 50/50 v2 and have twice the product to play with, or for customers looking for a "name" I'd get BoS.

Is there really a market for another circa £100 wax, TBH I think the manufacturer may be better making a lower profit and selling xxx times more of the wax to make their profits, I can't imagine how a £100 price tag can be justified unless it contains something never used before that justifies the cost or of course the manufacturer wants a boutique wax that is essentially overpriced.


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## [email protected] (Mar 5, 2007)

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=89319

have a look :thumb:


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

copperman05 said:


> Have you used it? Looks interesting..
> 
> Edd


No, haven't used it Edd. Just found it whilst surfing. :lol:

Alan W


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Autobrite Detailer said:


> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=89319
> 
> have a look :thumb:


What's he chances of DW memebers having a go at naming this wax

Could post a thread up, people reply and then you pick a winner, awarding them a free pot 

I shall keep my suggestion a secret until the comp is launched 

Go on, you know you want to...


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Epoch said:


> What's he chances of DW memebers having a go at naming this wax
> 
> Could post a thread up, people reply and then you pick a winner, awarding them a free pot
> 
> ...


great idea Jon - I'm up for it...some ideas already brewing


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## blake_jl (Apr 26, 2008)

Did I miss something here? Have we finally established who owns this mysterious wax?


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

There we go 

This wax is Autobrite's new wax. Its already on two test cars and likely to go on my Volvo at the weekend if I can get the time so I can put it through higher mileage winter testing


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## mattyb95 (Apr 21, 2008)

Dave KG said:


> There we go
> 
> This wax is Autobrite's new wax. Its already on two test cars and likely to go on my Volvo at the weekend if I can get the time so I can put it through higher mileage winter testing


Oh see I thought Autobrite was testing it too, oops!


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

Car Key said:


> You may be right, but I wouldn't count out TW.
> 
> Btw, the E-Zyme wax is $275 in the States, so can't see that landing here for less than £200.


You wanna bet ?


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