# Best way to strip off wax etc? WO liquid?



## Coupe25 (Feb 11, 2017)

Ive always used Asdas own washing up liquid but wondering if there is a better product out there which is also inexpensive. I'm not a believer that the mild salt content in WO liquid damages the paint at all, so happy to continue using it unless there is a stronger product on the market.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Coupe25 said:


> Ive always used Asdas own washing up liquid but wondering if there is a better product out there which is also inexpensive. I'm not a believer that the mild salt content in WO liquid damages the paint at all, so happy to continue using it unless there is a stronger product on the market.


Wo liquid will not strip wax. Panel wipe or light polish / pre wax cleanser will remove wax


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## Bay (Jun 13, 2016)

Autosmart Tardis will do the job &#55357;&#56397;&#55356;&#57339;


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## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

Meguiars new wash plus works well to strip wax etc


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Bay said:


> Autosmart Tardis will do the job ����


Yes it will, but not the best products to use for the job.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Ideally you want some very light abrasive action. The new Meguiars Wash Plus, as suggested is very good. Washing up liquid doesn't work, it's a fallacy that it removes wax.


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## Horatio (Oct 30, 2011)

Drive to your local jet wash, chuck a pound in, select foam lance, spray car, leave to dwell, rinse. Repeat as necessary.


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## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

Coupe25 said:


> Ive always used Asdas own washing up liquid but wondering if there is a better product out there which is also inexpensive. I'm not a believer that the mild salt content in WO liquid damages the paint at all, so happy to continue using it unless there is a stronger product on the market.


Based on what?

The sulphur lauryl sulphate has been scientifically proven to emulsify wax and oil so your wrong unfortunately.

Better quality waxes may take more emulsifying than cheaper ones but it will remove wax


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## BradleyW (May 4, 2015)

Bilt Hamber Cleanser Fluid.



> Deep cleans pores of road film, old waxes, tar etc and primes paint for waxes
> 
> In the same way as one would never dream of painting an oily or greasy surface as failure would result, paint should also be deep cleaned to ensure that waxes bond to a crisp clean surface for maximum adhesion.
> 
> ...


https://www.bilthamber.com/cleanser-fluid

I've also found light polish, home made IPA wipe and Autoglym Intensive Tar Remover to be good at stripping a Wax or Sealant.


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## matty.13 (May 3, 2011)

I use Koch wax remover . Does a good job 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Rian said:


> Based on what?
> 
> The sulphur lauryl sulphate has been scientifically proven to emulsify wax and oil so your wrong unfortunately.
> 
> Better quality waxes may take more emulsifying than cheaper ones but it will remove wax


I think your "science" is a little lacking. Car waxes are much more resilient than you think. A strong fairy solution will not strip wax. Period:thumb:


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## Coupe25 (Feb 11, 2017)

Rian said:


> Based on what?
> 
> The sulphur lauryl sulphate has been scientifically proven to emulsify wax and oil so your wrong unfortunately.
> 
> Better quality waxes may take more emulsifying than cheaper ones but it will remove wax


Why are you quoting me when saying that? I said I dont believe it damages paint, not wax


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## garycha (Mar 29, 2012)

fatdazza said:


> I think your "science" is a little lacking. Car waxes are much more resilient than you think. A strong fairy solution will not strip wax. Period:thumb:


Ok, you get some heavy sticky all over your hands. Paraffin wax, grease etc. what do you wash it off with?

Answer is of course, variety of substances. But strong detergent would be amongst these for many, and effectively. :thumb:


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

garycha said:


> Ok, you get some heavy sticky all over your hands. Paraffin wax, grease etc. what do you wash it off with?
> 
> Answer is of course, variety of substances. But strong detergent would be amongst these for many, and effectively. :thumb:


Ok, mucky hands are a world away from car wax. Strong detergent is great for grease, but it does not dissolve carnauba wax.

And when I have greasy hands I use some neat Fairy to degrease my hands. A couple of glugs in a bucket of water is nowhere near strong enough to clean mucky hands.

So much myth around Fairy. In fact all it does is leave surfactants on top of the wax, which gives the impression of wax removal because the water no longer beads. The wax is still in place.


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## garycha (Mar 29, 2012)

fatdazza said:


> Ok, mucky hands are a world away from car wax. Strong detergent is great for grease, but it does not dissolve carnauba wax.
> 
> And when I have greasy hands I use some neat Fairy to degrease my hands. A couple of glugs in a bucket of water is nowhere near strong enough to clean mucky hands.
> 
> So much myth around Fairy. In fact all it does is leave surfactants on top of the wax, which gives the impression of wax removal because the water no longer beads. The wax is still in place.


So much myth around the imperviousness of carnuba , justified with detergent 'surfactants', Which BTW themselves are also generally all water soluble.

Most waxes don't really contain that much carnuba and have more paraffin wax. The elements wear it away in a few months, strong detergents, heat, lighter waxes applied on top, all accelerates that natural disappearance of carnuba 
Content.

But here's the real point, stripping and full decontamination are different. All above methods remove enough to be able able to reapply even another brand (shock) of wax on the car. Trace surfactants, yes I know.. 

:thumb:
'


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## rlmccarty2000 (May 31, 2017)

You really can’t lump all waxes in one category. Some waxes have polymers in them to aid in longetivity. The only way to be certain a wax is removed is by mechanical polishing. A strong APC solution may degrade a wax, but I have never seen proof of total removal.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

Fairy liquid will not strip waxes or sealants. Very clearly demonstrated in this video.






Also note that at the end he talks about how he also did the same test with IPA and it also did nothing, so that is another myth it seems.

Strangely enough he added a new video today looking at PoorBoy's Strip down, and that seemed to perform very well:


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## garycha (Mar 29, 2012)

rlmccarty2000 said:


> You really can't lump all waxes in one category. Some waxes have polymers in them to aid in longetivity. The only way to be certain a wax is removed is by mechanical polishing. A strong APC solution may degrade a wax, but I have never seen proof of total removal.


I'm not lumping them in one category, but am tackling the hardest one with highest melting point. I.e. Carnauba - with the logic that if you can degrade that, the rest are easy.

Paraffin wax and synthetic silicone polymers ( meaning silicon and oil compounds) may be added for other reasons than longevity and are not the hardest cookie in the mix to dissolve/strip with products. Quite the opposite.

And my real point, that you may have missed, is that they are removed _*enough*_ as described and without abrasive polishing, to be capable of being happily recoated with another petrochemical or natural wax coating (insert brand), without any real compromise on end result. If you were moving to a silicate coating (Sio2), where optical clarity is more revealing, then the surface would absolutely need to be 100% clean for the chemical bond. Far less so for wax, which cures on top of, but does not need to chemically bond to clear coat.

If not, just leave it 4 months and the weather will do it for you. Odd really, that the British weather at least, doesn't need a da to strip wax.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

garycha said:


> I'm not lumping them in one category, but am tackling the hardest one with highest melting point. I.e. Carnauba - with the logic that if you can degrade that, the rest are easy.
> 
> Paraffin wax and synthetic silicone polymers ( meaning silicon and oil compounds) may be added for other reasons than longevity and are not the hardest cookie in the mix to dissolve/strip with products. Quite the opposite.
> 
> ...


I disagree. As you can see from the video it doesn't do anything.

Besides, whilst I appreciate what you are saying regarding wax not being as fussy as a ceramic in terms of a perfectly clean surface to allow bonding, you can greatly maximise the efficacy and longevity of any wax or sealant by properly preparing the surface.






Something like PoorBoy's Strip down and then a paint cleanser, like the one from BH would probably be a good compromise rather than mechanically polishing the paint and potentially compromising the clear coat (depending on how often and how abrasive). But not washing up liquid. It serves no purpose than being a shampoo, and not one I would use above my dedicated car shampoo for obvious reasons (most of all because my car shampoo is better at removing dirt...).


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## garycha (Mar 29, 2012)

DrEskimo said:


> Fairy liquid will not strip waxes or sealants. Very clearly demonstrated in this video.
> 
> Will Dawn Ultra Remove Your Wax/Sealant? Let's Test! - YouTube
> 
> ...


Strangely enough, another counter-view on YouTube, also non scientific but a little more rigorous in approach and logic than the chap above.






BTW you also miss my point that was not just about Fairy Liquid. Is was about the need to clean 100% by completely abrading your paint, before reapplying another coating of wax.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Fairy aka washing up liquid doesn't remove waxes from what I have tested imo. I have used washing up liquid on both waxes and sealants, fresh and old. Each time the initial fairy wash would appear to kill the wax with a significant reduction in hydrophobicity. Follow up with a normal pure shampoo wash though and the beading/sheeting returns. 

For me that proves the surfactants theory. On the other hand something like megs shampoo plus+ when followed up with a normal pure shampoo shows it does strip waxes as no hydrophobicity returns. 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

garycha said:


> Strangely enough, another counter-view on YouTube, also non scientific but a little more rigorous in approach and logic than the chap above.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Guy has the scientific knowledge of gnat. He talks about the pH scale and says "pH 8 is ten times more powerful than 7, pH 9 is twenty times more powerful than 7"

pH is a log scale (i.e. base 10) :wall:

OMG - watched some more of his drivel - he then talks about Dawn containing ethanol and says ethanol is pH 7 which is neutral but you can change this by changing the temperature of the water. Utter B/S. He is trying to sound knowledgeable and to the average person may sound convincing, but utter B/S nonetheless.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

garycha said:


> Strangely enough, another counter-view on YouTube, also non scientific but a little more rigorous in approach and logic than the chap above.


I'm confused, why is that video more rigorous and logical...he's just talking...?

What you would need is a test showing multiple washes using washing liquid to see how long it takes to strip a newly applied wax. Also increasing the temperature as well.

Along side that, it would be good to see a car that had no wax applied on one section, and one section with a old wax applied, say that had been on the car for 2.5months. Then record the water behaviour on both the waxed and controlled section, and see what multiple washes with washing up liquid did to the old wax.

Something like this follow-up video....






As you will see, it still does not prove to be an effective way to strip old wax, no matter how many times he washed it (20 times on the new wax application, 10 times on the old wax application still had no effect).

Considering you will want to prep the surface to maximise the durability of a new wax anyway, it makes little sense to me to even use fairy liquid anyway. The fact that it does a very very poor job, if at all, at stripping old waxes or new ones just makes it completely pointless...


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

garycha said:


> Strangely enough, another counter-view on YouTube, also non scientific but a little more rigorous in approach and logic than the chap above.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





DrEskimo said:


> I'm confused, why is that video more rigorous and logical...he's just talking...?
> 
> What you would need is a test showing multiple washes using washing liquid to see how long it takes to strip a newly applied wax. Also increasing the temperature as well.
> 
> ...


Ahh but Mr Dallas Paint Correction was using Dawn professional rather than Dawn Ultra (because he is a "professional" :lol

Professional at B/S


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Agree with the mr dallas comments. All his 'critical thinking' patter is cringe worthy and the guy doesn't have a scooby. Watched him 'clean' interiors in a 'revolutionary critical thinking way' acting as if the seats are spotless when the stains are still clearly visible.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## garycha (Mar 29, 2012)

fatdazza said:


> Ahh but Mr Dallas Paint Correction was using Dawn professional rather than Dawn Ultra (because he is a "professional" :lol
> 
> Professional at B/S





fatdazza said:


> Ahh but Mr Dallas Paint Correction was using Dawn professional rather than Dawn Ultra (because he is a "professional" :lol
> 
> Professional at B/S


Again, you miss the point. I was being facetious. Must be my comms skills...

The point was that in presenting some pseudo non-scientific 'proof' from YouTube, is that it is just as easy to find a counterpoint view. One that I already acknowledged as non-scientific. Detailing is a B/S snake oil industry in many partsindustry. You are often just buying premium priced chemicals and solvents to clean and treat, many of which are little more than repackaged facsimiles of industrial products that sell at 1/4 of the prices.

I get it that many here just want to find reason to buy more 'gear' and to get the DAs out and remove yet more clearcoat.

But there are still plenty of solvents, detergents - household, industrial, and well-marketed 'automotive specials' that will remove waxes, with more or less effort. Wax is a grease. Industrial dewaxing and degreasing, where more often a clinically clean surface is required, does not need abrasives, and has to work with many surfaces, including painted offshore surfaces.

I'll leave you with two questions to ponder or answer (not with unconvincing YouTube content as 'proof')

1. If we accept the common wisdom that carnauba (the hardest of the waxes) will last outside then wear off naturally just exposed to elements and photo degrading UV light etc for max typically 3-4 months before breaking down and washing away, why then would a wax coat that had been on say 3 months, also need abrading off? That logic defies any sense.

2. If we also accept that carnuba wax has a melting point of 82degrees C, what is going to then happen to that coating if we say wash it with even hotter (83 degrees to boiling point) water AND detergents, or we steam clean it.
Nothing? Will miracle surfactants and polymers merely sit there and keep it all on? Is the wax going to out-perform its own melting point and just not move?


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

garycha said:


> Again, you miss the point. I was being facetious. Must be my comms skills...
> 
> The point was that in presenting some pseudo non-scientific 'proof' from YouTube, is that it is just as easy to find a counterpoint view. One that I already acknowledged as non-scientific. Detailing is a B/S snake oil industry in many partsindustry. You are often just buying premium priced chemicals and solvents to clean and treat, many of which are little more than repackaged facsimiles of industrial products that sell at 1/4 of the prices.
> 
> ...


In response:

1. I have never said that abrading off is the only method of wax removal. Old and tired wax can often easily be removed by chemical means, e.g a strong APC can remove a tired wax. Fairy liquid however is a poor way to try to remove wax, and if people want to strip wax totally (e.g. to apply a "ceramic" type sealant) then Fairy is not the answer. I have also said that panel wipe is a sure fire way of removing wax (chemically).

2. No -one has said that extremely hot water coupled with detergents will not strip wax. No one has said that steam won' t strip wax. However for most on here this will not be a feasible option (not many will have suitable equipment and will not be dunking their washmitt into post 80 degrees water!). The whole debate was around whether a few squirts of Fairy in a washbucket will remove wax - It wont. Period.


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## garycha (Mar 29, 2012)

fatdazza said:


> In response:
> 
> 1. I have never said that abrading off is the only method of wax removal. Old and tired wax can often easily be removed by chemical means, e.g a strong APC can remove a tired wax. Fairy liquid however is a poor way to try to remove wax, and if people want to strip wax totally (e.g. to apply a "ceramic" type sealant) then Fairy is not the answer. I have also said that panel wipe is a sure fire way of removing wax (chemically).
> 
> 2. No -one has said that extremely hot water coupled with detergents will not strip wax. No one has said that steam won' t strip wax. *However for most on here this will not be a feasible option (not many will have suitable equipment and will not be dunking their washmitt into post 80 degrees water!)*. The whole debate was around whether a few squirts of Fairy in a washbucket will remove wax - It wont. Period.


Most have a kitchen...

Boil kettle, add strong detergent, use rubber gloves, wash bonnet. Rinse. 
Boil kettle, add det, use etc.., wash roof.
Etc panel by panel.

Wax gone.

I see that as an entirely simple, feasible and quick process. YMMV I know.

---------------------

Or, I have email from these folk stating this product safe and eco for cars.

Apex Dewax RX - used for removing asphaltine waxes, paraffin wax and crude deposits from very expensive surfaces in the offshore industry. Minimum quantities could be an issue. But its used cold and on vulnerable painted surfaces, expensive valvings etc

http://www.apex-chemicals.co.uk/getattachment/91592a62-5f71-45a6-a21d-91b9c2e88c71/document.aspx


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

You are basing all your knowledge on the melting point of carnauba wax though. There are so many LSPs out there than don't contain carnauna and don't have this low melting point. Waxes have came a long way from the days of natural wax and now are likely more synthetic based than they are natural. I reckon most of the main waxes I use would hold up to some warm water and detergent. 

Might give it a test though just to debunk this chain of thought.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Brian1612 said:


> You are basing all your knowledge on the melting point of carnauba wax though. There are so many LSPs out there than don't contain carnauna and don't have this low melting point. Waxes have came a long way from the days of natural wax and now are likely more synthetic based than they are natural. I reckon most of the main waxes I use would hold up to some warm water and detergent.
> 
> Might give it a test though just to debunk this chain of thought.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Exactly my thoughts - most 'waxes' these days aren' even waxes in the traditional sense. They are highly synthetic pastes with a dab of natural in there more for the branding than anything else. These are far more chemically resistant to washing from all kinds of soaps and heat as well.


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## BradleyW (May 4, 2015)

A thorough way to remove Wax is by using a Pre-Wax cleaner which contains abrasives. Various chemicals can also be used to remove a Wax. Dish soap can be used, but it's not ideal and may not yield the results you expect.


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## garycha (Mar 29, 2012)

Brian1612 said:


> You are basing all your knowledge on the melting point of carnauba wax though. There are so many LSPs out there than don't contain carnauna and don't have this low melting point. Waxes have came a long way from the days of natural wax and now are likely more synthetic based than they are natural. I reckon most of the main waxes I use would hold up to some warm water and detergent.
> 
> Might give it a test though just to debunk this chain of thought.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Carnuba actually has a particularly high melting point (82 deg C) and not a low one. I tackled this wax on logic that if the harder ones can be dissolved and flushed, then it follows tha t the lower ones would be that much easier still. Plus the automotive world understands carnauba.

Out of interest and to explore beyond YouTube and into scientific world i read most of this:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12182-016-0111-8#citeas

Dull but it explores, with some scientific rigor, the melting and other properties of waxes and asphaltine (crystalised waxes), with a view to understanding their removal from expensive kit in the oil world. These are the constituents of many oil-based waxes and silicone polymers. Carnauba is the harts natural version.

Table 1, covers to properties of crude and asphaltine plus paraffin waxes in terms of hardness, density, melting point, then viscosity etc.

I focus on carnauba as it is the hardest natural wax with highest melting point, with only some asphaltine waxes approaching it.

Your pont on polymers is an intersting one. Polymers refer to any long chain of molecules and are far reaching in design and applications - from hard silicone rubber and seals - silicone resins/rubber/ caulks. As far as automotive polymers for synthesized car wax, and what we call hybrids, these will most likely be polymers of silicon oil polydimethylsiloxane PDMS (silicones, as we discussed elsewhere) and then hydrocarbon waxes from that study. Now I cant be definite here, but I sense that most polymers in 'wax type products' are less impervious than the hardest of waxes (carnuba and some asphaltine waxes plus paraffin wax), and are introduced for other qualities that they bring, rather than pure longevity - bind product together, water repellancy, make their application and removal/buffing easier. Ergo stripping them may be less of a challenge, especially if they are bound up in Product Wax X.

I dont have enough info to know if the silicone polymers are removed with the host waxes, or if you need a catalyst solvent that shears the SI O and CH bonds, allowing SI to run away. But I suspect many will be also carried away by the same stuff and method that shifts the hardwax constituents.

I dont have the defining answer, but just wanted to explore, in a simple way, something that the world of detailing seems to very often want to be complex and multi-stepped.

Only one way to find out about the boiling water n soap stripwax method...alas I am SiO2d on all cars, bar the BSD Up wing n door.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

garycha said:


> Only one way to find out about the boiling water n soap stripwax method...alas I am SiO2d on all cars, bar the BSD Up wing n door.


I mean I enjoy reading the scientific literature as much as the next guy, but what exactly about that video do you specifically take issue with...? (As an side, I still have no idea why you think the other video you linked was more 'rigorous and logical'...rigorous in what? He didn't do anything!).

You hypothesise that washing up liquid will remove wax, and he shows you washing a panel multiple times with washing up liquid, and shows that there is still very obviously wax present by the water behaviour....? You can keep suggesting it isn't very scientific, but it doesn't have to be! He is doing what you say is effective at stripping wax, and it's clearly not working! The same way I would or anyone else would.

He also does this with higher water temperatures (120F, which I believe is around 60C?) and on a panel which had older wax applied (over 2.5months old). Again, multiple (10+) washes with fairy liquid, even undiluted straight on the panel, and still it does nothing to strip the wax.

Are you suggesting that 10 washes with undiluted fairy with just 60C isn't going to do it, but a single wash with diluted fairy and 100C water will...? If it's that sensitive to having to be +90degrees, then having to boil a whole kettle every time to strip each panel individually seems daft to me. Why not just use Megs strip + shampoo, or that PoorBoy's Strip down? Far better solutions and have evidence of actually working....

Personally, I would opt for a DA and final polish. I don't regularly apply enough to worry about compromising the clear coat, and it has the added bonus of perfectly prepping the paint to maximise the effectiveness of my new application.


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## garycha (Mar 29, 2012)

DrEskimo said:


> I mean I enjoy reading the scientific literature as much as the next guy, but what exactly about that video do you specifically take issue with...? (As an side, I still have no idea why you think the other video you linked was more 'rigorous and logical'...rigorous in what? He didn't do anything!).
> 
> You hypothesise that washing up liquid will remove wax, and he shows you washing a panel multiple times with washing up liquid, and shows that there is still very obviously wax present by the water behaviour....? You can keep suggesting it isn't very scientific, but it doesn't have to be! He is doing what you say is effective at stripping wax, and it's clearly not working! The same way I would or anyone else would.
> 
> ...


Your willfully selective reading is outstanding. :lol:


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

garycha said:


> Most have a kitchen...
> 
> Boil kettle, add strong detergent, use rubber gloves, wash bonnet. Rinse.
> Boil kettle, add det, use etc.., wash roof.
> ...


Omg you have found the "next great thing" for wax removal. Lmao :lol: a bottle of fairy, a kettle and some rubber gloves. Suggest you patent this before someone steals your idea.

Seriously? Get some panel wipe.

The debate started around a few squirts of fairy in a washbucket. You want to dig yourself out of your hole by suggesting people wash their car in boiling water.

And as for your discovery of dewax rx, well it sounds pretty similar to panel wipe (being a blend of aromatic hydrocarbons). All the bodyshops in the country have missed a trick here


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## Coupe25 (Feb 11, 2017)

Looks like I opened a can of worms.
For the record when I last did a full detail minus machine polishing I used very strong washing up liquid, washed the car twice, fallout remover, clayed, then used panel wipe before applying Fusso 99. Fusso seems to be lasting a lot better but that will mainly be down to the panel wipe.


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## westerman (Oct 12, 2008)

When you use washing up liquid is it best to wear marigolds and dry using a tea towel.

:lol:

Harry


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## Coupe25 (Feb 11, 2017)

westerman said:


> When you use washing up liquid is it best to wear marigolds and dry using a tea towel.
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Harry


A strong mix frothed up with a hose in a bucket creates some hard to beat suds though and costs 1/20th of a low priced car shampoo


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## rlmccarty2000 (May 31, 2017)

The Poorboys wax stripper product is fairly new here but the reviews are good. Reviewers are saying it will strip newly applied waxes and degrade sealants significantly. I’ve tried the Chemical Guys product that was supposed to strip wax and it was no better than a regular shampoo. Not a big CG fan anyways.


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