# Best DSLR camera to start with??



## haxbyscoobs

Come on guys help me out

If I've got a budget of £300.00 - £500.00 to purchase a new DSLR camera

what's the best one for a beginner like me who's only used to a digi camera

I attend alot of car shows so will be used at this and also alot of race circuits like Donny , Silverstone , Croft etc to watch motorsport so need a good camera with a good zoom lens to capture fast motorsport

Looking at Nikon D40 @ £299.00 Is this a good one to start out with?


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## -ROM-

haxbyscoobs said:


> Come on guys help me out
> 
> If I've got a budget of £300.00 - £500.00 to purchase a new DSLR camera
> 
> what's the best one for a beginner like me who's only used to a digi camera
> 
> I attend alot of car shows so will be used at this and also alot of race circuits like Donny , Silverstone , Croft etc to watch motorsport so need a good camera with a good zoom lens to capture fast motorsport
> 
> Looking at Nikon D40 @ £299.00 Is this a good one to start out with?


Nikon D40 is a good camera but i think you'll quickly find yourself wanting for more features so the D80 might be a better starting point.


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## haxbyscoobs

rmorgan84 said:


> Nikon D40 is a good camera but i think you'll quickly find yourself wanting for more features so the D80 might be a better starting point.


I'm not very camera knowledgeable using my dad's old fugi s5000 at the moment

i aint even got a clue what all the things on the top mean

Auto - is all i use lol
p?
s?
a?
m?
sp?

Fook knows!!

Hence me looking for summat simple and easy to understand i'm not going to be going for cameraman of the year i just want to take nice crisp clear photo's from a distance but with cars going past at 140mph plus on the straights its bloody hard to capture them and i end up with track and grass and no bloody car as its gone before the shutter goes


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## Arun

I've only been in the dslr game for 6months and I have started off with a Canon 400D. It's a good starter. You can easily just set it to auto and snap away, but it's got all the other settings to allow you to explore the trade and have a lot of fun whilst doing it. 'Course you can expand your collection with differnt lenses that are compatible with it, since you'll want to take some nice motorsport shots. Above all, it takes very good quality pics as well (like my avatar, a personal fave of mine). 

You can get a nice bundle of 400D, kit lens, memory card and bag that's well within your budget. The 450D has superceeded it now, but is a bit pricey in comparison.


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## -ROM-

haxbyscoobs said:


> I'm not very camera knowledgeable using my dad's old fugi s5000 at the moment
> 
> i aint even got a clue what all the things on the top mean
> 
> Auto - is all i use lol
> p?
> s?
> a?
> m?
> sp?
> 
> Fook knows!!
> 
> Hence me looking for summat simple and easy to understand i'm not going to be going for cameraman of the year i just want to take nice crisp clear photo's from a distance but with cars going past at 140mph plus on the straights its bloody hard to capture them and i end up with track and grass and no bloody car as its gone before the shutter goes


The problems with the D40 for this are:

a) It doesn't have a great FPS rate (but this can be compensated for with a bit of skill)

b) it is quite a small camera and when you put a long lens on it for motorsport it tends to become quite front heavy and uncomfortable to use!


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## dubnut71

rmorgan84 said:


> The problems with the D40 for this are:
> 
> a) It doesn't have a great FPS rate (but this can be compensated for with a bit of skill)
> 
> b) it is quite a small camera and when you put a long lens on it for motorsport it tends to become quite front heavy and uncomfortable to use!


Rm has a good set of points here, another vote for his recommendation of the D80 from me!:thumb:


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## Rich @ PB

I would agree; if you have little camera knowledge the entry level models will be easier to learn on, but for what you intend to do a higher spec model will pay off in the long run. The D80 in the Nikon range makes sense given your budget. I suggest buying yourself Practical Photography for the next six months, as they are giving away a free six part guide on how to learn to use DSLR's, and it's all very simple and well presented. :thumb:


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## Griff

I started with the Canon 400d and find it a great camera although new on the market is the 450d to be honest any dslr will be good and they can be used full auto but when you want to get ceative they will do the job, one thing to remember though is when you pick a brand eg. Nikon, Canon you are buying into the whole system so lenses will only fit that brand so choose carefully as if you decide to change brands at a later date you will have to re buy lenses and it will get costly
Tom


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## paul46rider

A few months ago i bought my 1st DSLR. i went for a Canon 400d. once you start getting your head around how it all works, you start to see great results.

as far as the camera i went for the Canon over the Nikon due to hearing that the motors on the Nikon lens arn't hugely reliable, this could be wrong but when you get told these things when you are starting out, you tend to listen


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## haxbyscoobs

so whats best then

Nikon d40 or d80

or now been brought into the scene 

Canon 400d

Oh bleeders don't know what the hells what now


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## CK888

imo get the cheapest Canon/Nikon body and invest in some decent lenses. Best way is to go to the shops and have a play with them.


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## -ROM-

D80 hands down!


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## -ROM-

CK888 said:


> imo get the cheapest Canon/Nikon body and invest in some decent lenses. Best way is to go to the shops and have a play with them.


The problem is as mentioned above the cheapest are the smallest and small bodies are no good whne you are hanging 300mm lenses off them!


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## paul46rider

rmorgan84 said:


> The problem is as mentioned above the cheapest are the smallest and small bodies are no good whne you are hanging 300mm lenses off them!


as a newbie to slr photography 300mm lenses aren't really gonna be a factor


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## monzablue16v

Check the price of lenses as well for each camera, they ain't too cheap. Get a good tripod as well


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## -ROM-

paul46rider said:


> as a newbie to slr photography 300mm lenses aren't really gonna be a factor


Maybe not for you. But i'm basing this on the OPs needs who has stated that he wants to photograph motorsports which require long lenses!


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## haxbyscoobs

i'll goto jessops and try some out and see whats what with them me thinks as thats gonna be the best way forward for me i thinks


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## wedgie

haxbyscoobs....

People on here can only give advice and the reasons that they picked the camera that they did ( i have a cannon 400d)...

As previously said, the best advice i could give is to go into your local camera shop and have a chat with them..They will be the best people to give advice and also you will get a chance to have a play with various camera's.Pick a camera that is comfortable for you and has the features you want...

Ok you could possibly pick up a camera cheaper online, but i prefer going in and talking things over before i part with my hard earned cash,rather than something just turning up on my doorstep..


HTH


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## Mark J

I'd try and look out for a decent, used Canon 30D...cough :thumb:


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## -ROM-

wedgie said:


> haxbyscoobs....
> 
> People on here can only give advice and the reasons that they picked the camera that they did ( i have a cannon 400d)...
> 
> As previously said, the best advice i could give is to go into your local camera shop and have a chat with them..They will be the best people to give advice and also you will get a chance to have a play with various camera's.Pick a camera that is comfortable for you and has the features you want...
> 
> Ok you could possibly pick up a camera cheaper online, but i prefer going in and talking things over before i part with my hard earned cash,rather than something just turning up on my doorstep..
> 
> HTH


It depends on who is giving the advice, some people on here myself included have bought quite a few cameras and as a hobby have come in to contact with cameras of friends etc. So it is often a bit more objective than i bought x model so i am going to adivse you to buy x model as well.

Also when you go to a store like jessops they often give advice that is bias towards whatever brand is lagging behind in terms of sales that particular month!


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## -ROM-

Mark J said:


> I'd try and look out for a decent, used Canon 30D...cough :thumb:


i think that is an excellent idea, if only someone had one for sale for around £500 with a kit lens and a nice nifty fifty and a few other bits

P.S. in all seriousness the 30d is a crakcing camera, just as good as a D80 although it only has 8 instead of 10 megapixels, but in the real world tis is not a problem and what it lacks in megapixels it makes up in high ISO capabilities!


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## CK888

rmorgan84 said:


> The problem is as mentioned above the cheapest are the smallest and small bodies are no good whne you are hanging 300mm lenses off them!


I've attached a 70-300mm VR (and a prime 200mm) to my D40 and imo it's fine. Some telephoto have tripod mount so something like a monopod with aid the shooting and comfort.


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## -ROM-

CK888 said:


> I've attached a 70-300mm VR (and a prime 200mm) to my D40 and imo it's fine. Some telephoto have tripod mount so something like a monopod with aid the shooting and comfort.


I suppose it is personal preference and how long you are gonna use it for if its the odd snap here and there the yes it will be fine, if you're standing on th sie of a track for hours then it will make your wrist ache very quickly.


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## ClearCoatChrist

I have just started out with DSLR. Bought the 450D, and it's a little bit advanced. So I must read a little about photography first.

If you buy a too advanced camera and you get tired of it, you'll just keep it on auto-setting, and that's a shame, with such a good camera.


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## Mr Sparkle

I bought a Canon EOS 400D in John Lewis in April. Prior to actually handing over the cash, I was humming and hawing over what to get for ages: EOS 400D, EOS 350D, Nikon models... 

The bigger issue was the fact I know nowt about photography. You just have to go out and get one and start taking photos. TBH, they're all pretty good and if you're new to it, you won't be aware of what you are missing/enjoying as you have no comparison to make.

I went for the Canon as they had a cashback offer on and I like the idea of taking it home from a reputable store in case there are any issues. As opposed to sending it back to Hong Kong if it all goes Pete Tong. Knowwadamean?


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## Neil_M

The D40 has been mentioned, what about the D40X?

IMO, I would get a DSLR geared for a beginner and go from there. It may keep you happy and if you want to get more into it, you can get another.


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## Lespaul

I've got a D40x with a kit lens and a 70-300 VR lens










It's my first DSLR and I wanted to take pictures of wildlife, motorsport and landscape, so far I'm very pleased with my choice and getting some good pictures (well IMHO  ). The D40x is still far more capable than me but when I feel that I need to trade up I'll move onto a second hand D200 (or D300 if it's quite a while)

Darren


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## Neil_M

Nice camera, need to buy one after a rotary, new car and a house lol!


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## Shiny

Personally i went for the EOS400D, although i would buy the 450D if i was choosing now. I just preferred the feel and menus etc to the Nikon (neighbour bought the Nikon a few weeks before so i was able to good play of the Nikon before choosing the Canon). 

These are really the only two contenders in the market in my opinion and people seem to either be in camp or the other.


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## ZoranC

haxbyscoobs said:


> Come on guys help me out
> 
> If I've got a budget of £300.00 - £500.00 to purchase a new DSLR camera
> 
> what's the best one for a beginner like me who's only used to a digi camera
> 
> I attend alot of car shows so will be used at this and also alot of race circuits like Donny , Silverstone , Croft etc to watch motorsport so need a good camera with a good zoom lens to capture fast motorsport
> 
> Looking at Nikon D40 @ £299.00 Is this a good one to start out with?


Considering budget you mentioned you are looking for something inexpensive. Keep in mind that cost of body is smallest part of total cost of ownership. Real cost is in lenses. Even inexpensive body with average lenses can easily cost you £1000+.

Therefore have you considered bridge cameras, like Fuji S100fs?


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## -ROM-

ZoranC said:


> Considering budget you mentioned you are looking for something inexpensive. Keep in mind that cost of body is smallest part of total cost of ownership. Real cost is in lenses. Even inexpensive body with average lenses can easily cost you £1000+.
> 
> *Therefore have you considered bridge cameras, like Fuji S100fs*?


Why

Owning a DSLR is about creating a system, just because he only has £500 now doesn;t mean he won't have another £500 next month for a new lens if the mood takes him...

Also a cheap DSLR with a cheap lens is still going to produce better images than any bridge camera


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## ZoranC

rmorgan84 said:


> Why
> 
> Owning a DSLR is about creating a system, just because he only has £500 now doesn;t mean he won't have another £500 next month for a new lens if the mood takes him...


For simple reason: For majority of tasks best bridge cameras outperform DSLR systems that are up to several times their cost.



rmorgan84 said:


> Also a cheap DSLR with a cheap lens is still going to produce better images than any bridge camera


I am sorry but that is not correct, quite the opposite. Cheap DSLR lenses do not outperform lenses on good bridge, that is a myth, very often lenses on bridge outperform lenses on DSLR that cost more than whole bridge.

Instead of going into lengthy debate why that is the case I would like to point you to one of highly respected photography sites, www.dpreview.com, and reviews, articles and forums there can explain why that is the case much better than I ever could.

One of good examples of that can be found in DPR's review of Sony DSC-R1. Reviewer took it on himself to figure out how much it would cost him to build DSLR set that would outdo DSC-R1. Answer was 3+ times more than what DSC-R1 cost (and DSC-R1 was £500.00-ish at that time).

Also, very often one can not find single lens for DSLR that match specs of bridge so one needs to keep carrying and switching multiple lenses, potentially missing a shot and getting dirt on sensor, while bridge owner keeps on happily achieveing result in the meantime.

Issue of bridge vs. DSLR has been debated ad nauseum in pro forums and of course there are situations where bridge will fall short while DSLR will shine. And vice versa.

Needless to say I own two cameras that are undisputably considered top guns of bridges (Sony DSC-R1 and Fuji S6000fd). Yet no matter how good they are their owners, many of which are pros, do not kid themselves into putting down DSLRs. By same token many pro DSLR owners do not kid themselves into putting good bridges down.

Therefore one needs to inform himself on pros and cons of both and make analysis what matters to him before taking the plunge so expensive mistake is avoided.


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## Damien89

Just buy any Nikon or Canon within your budget.
Personally i have a D80 but these are the best brands in this sector, can't really go wrong with these two.


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## ade33

Bear in mind that if you go with the D40 / D40x you'll only have autofocus with AFS lenses. The D40's don't have a built-in autofocus motor to drive non-AFS lenses.

I have a Nikon D50 that I bought new 18 months ago - don't think it's current range anymore but a great 1st dslr. Simple when I need it to be, flexible and works will all current Nikon lenses. Best of all, and I think the biggest advantage over 'bridge' cameras is, it's soooooo responsive and it's got a waaaaay bigger sensor than a bridge camera will ever have. Big sensors mean lower image noise, less noise to my mind = better quality results. Only exception to this would be the Sony DSC-R1 mentioned above, a bridge with a proper sized sensor as found in most dslr cameras. I nearly bought one but they don't have an optical viewfinder, just a tiny LCD which I don't get on with.

If I was buying again I'd probably buy D80 with 18-70 and 70-300 VR. A great camera and quality lenses that you can grow into, not out of. Having said that if my D50 goes pop I'll just look for a used one, i love it.

Another good resource is http://www.ephotozine.com/ good forums, equipment reviews, etc, etc. Also as posted dpreview has excellent reviews and extensive forums.


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## S63

I've said it before but worth repeating, you say you're a "beginner" and want to take fast moving motorsport pics, it makes little difference whether you opt for a Canon, Nikon, Pentax etc etc, if you went all the way and bought a Canon EOS 1DS for £5k it won't produce a better photograph than a model 10 times less expensive. Learn to walk before you can run, with digital technology this can be acheived in a much shorter space of time than the days of film. To take the kind of pics you talk about it is worth understanding how all the various functions and options work on a modern camera, the learning process can be a lot of fun too!


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## -ROM-

ZoranC said:


> For simple reason: For majority of tasks best bridge cameras outperform DSLR systems that are up to several times their cost.
> 
> I am sorry but that is not correct, quite the opposite. Cheap DSLR lenses do not outperform lenses on good bridge, that is a myth, very often lenses on bridge outperform lenses on DSLR that cost more than whole bridge.
> 
> Instead of going into lengthy debate why that is the case I would like to point you to one of highly respected photography sites, www.dpreview.com, and reviews, articles and forums there can explain why that is the case much better than I ever could.
> 
> One of good examples of that can be found in DPR's review of Sony DSC-R1. Reviewer took it on himself to figure out how much it would cost him to build DSLR set that would outdo DSC-R1. Answer was 3+ times more than what DSC-R1 cost (and DSC-R1 was £500.00-ish at that time).
> 
> Also, very often one can not find single lens for DSLR that match specs of bridge so one needs to keep carrying and switching multiple lenses, potentially missing a shot and getting dirt on sensor, while bridge owner keeps on happily achieveing result in the meantime.
> 
> Issue of bridge vs. DSLR has been debated ad nauseum in pro forums and of course there are situations where bridge will fall short while DSLR will shine. And vice versa.
> 
> Needless to say I own two cameras that are undisputably considered top guns of bridges (Sony DSC-R1 and Fuji S6000fd). Yet no matter how good they are their owners, many of which are pros, do not kid themselves into putting down DSLRs. By same token many pro DSLR owners do not kid themselves into putting good bridges down.
> 
> Therefore one needs to inform himself on pros and cons of both and make analysis what matters to him before taking the plunge so expensive mistake is avoided.


I suggest you go away, aquire more knowledge on the subject of photography than you can fit on a postage stamp, then come back and edit your post accordingly. We've experienced your photogrpahy "knowledge" in VXRMARC's thread with the porshce!



S500 said:


> I've said it before but worth repeating, you say you're a "beginner" and want to take fast moving motorsport pics, it makes little difference whether you opt for a Canon, Nikon, Pentax etc etc, if you went all the way and bought a Canon EOS 1DS for £5k it won't produce a better photograph than a model 10 times less expensive. Learn to walk before you can run, with digital technology this can be acheived in a much shorter space of time than the days of film. To take the kind of pics you talk about it is worth understanding how all the various functions and options work on a modern camera, the learning process can be a lot of fun too!


A very valid point, however the price gap between the D40 and the D80 isn't MASSIVE and i think that the D80 would be a better camera, that is just as easy for beginners to use, but with the added bonus of being able to grow with him, which is a lot cheaper in the long run than buying a D40 then in 6 months finding its limitatons and then having to upgrade!


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## ADZphtg

Well said :lol::lol::lol:
I see SO many pro's using bridge camera's


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## ZoranC

rmorgan84 said:


> I suggest you go away, aquire more knowledge on the subject of photography than you can fit on a postage stamp, then come back and edit your post accordingly. We've experienced your photogrpahy "knowledge" in VXRMARC's thread with the porshce!


I suppose you will be able to support your attitude with something substantial and fact based, like links to lens tests done by number of pros, for example, wouldn't you? Resolution, pincushion, all that boring technical detail stuff proving you are correct, you know. I will be looking forward to it. Thank you in advance!


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## ZoranC

ADZphtg said:


> I see SO many pro's using bridge camera's


You would be surprised to see how many if you would really look and inquire around. But don't trust my word. Actually go and check and let's see what you find out.

For example, I know for sure that this pro http://easternsierraphotography.com/-/easternsierraphotography/ used DSC-R1 (I bought it off him). Take a look at his resume. Good enough for him, but not for you. I guess that means your resume in pro photography has even bigger standing than his?

P.S. Please notice this does not mean average consumer bridges.


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## -ROM-

ZoranC said:


> I suppose you will be able to support your attitude with something substantial and fact based, like links to lens tests done by number of pros, for example, wouldn't you? Resolution, pincushion, all that boring technical detail stuff proving you are correct, you know. I will be looking forward to it. Thank you in advance!





ZoranC said:


> You would be surprised to see how many if you would really look and inquire around. But don't trust my word. Actually go and check and let's see what you find out.
> 
> P.S. Please notice this does not mean average consumer bridges.


ADZphtg is a professional photographer with a few awards to his name! (who also agrees with my statement so that's enough for me!). Also all "bridge" cameras are average consumer cameras, there is no such thing as a profesional bridge. Many of them take some good photos, but they are not professional kit by any stretch of the imagination!


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## EliteCarCare

Some good info can be found here, should help you make a choice:

http://kenrockwell.com/nikon/index.htm

He does highly rate the D40 so don't rule it out, especially as it's now a sub £300 camera! :thumb:


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## -ROM-

EliteCarCare said:


> Some good info can be found here, should help you make a choice:
> 
> http://kenrockwell.com/nikon/index.htm
> 
> He does highly rate the D40 so don't rule it out, especially as it's now a sub £300 camera! :thumb:


Don't want to appear argumentative but Ken Rockwell is a joke, he is a truly terrible photographer and some of the things he comes u with are laughable. It's not just me but ask anyone who is half clued up about photography and they will tell you the same.

Thom hogan is a good guy and has a very informative website:

www.bythom.com


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## ZoranC

rmorgan84 said:


> ADZphtg is a professional photographer with a few awards to his name! (who also agrees with my statement so that's enough for me!).


Obviously even pros are divided on this and other side has quite a bit of pro names on it so that is good enough for me.



rmorgan84 said:


> Also all "bridge" cameras are average consumer cameras, there is no such thing as a profesional bridge. Many of them take some good photos, but they are not professional kit by any stretch of the imagination!


I will not ask you to define what constitutes a professional camera, which I assume you can do by defining sensor size, sensitivity, speed, specs of lenses, features, etc, to which I would point out to you that they are all met by top of the line bridge cameras, because I have already asked you to support your statement with tests of specs and you have decided to avoid answer that would end up embarassing you.

I will instead ask you following: Do you realize DSC-R1 has exactly same sensor that was in Sony DSLRs of that generation? Do you realize it has Carl Zeiss T* lens on it? Do you realize that is a bridge camera that you say can not be professional yet it has exactly same, if not better, hardware and specs than DSLRs that you do call professional? Tell that to pros in Sony forums that use DSC-R1 to earn their living. Actually, you don't have to. I will do it for you and see what they have to say. Maybe I could even get some of them to contribute their input here.


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## The Detail Doctor

I have always ought, and will porabably continue to buy Canon cameras.


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## ADZphtg

*SONY DSC R1 Vs REAL CAMERA*

Just for Zoran, 
Specs comparison, If you need more proof please actually go and use a real pro camera and see the difference yourself. 
Bridge camera's have their uses, They have their pro's and con's, However a PRO camera differs greatly from this little sony toy. 
Sony DSC-R1 specs
Max resolution 3888 x 2592
Low resolution 3264 x 2176, 2748 x 1856, 2160 x 1440, 1296 x 864
Image ratio w:h 3:2
Effective pixels 10.0 million
Sensor photo detectors 10.8 million
Sensor size 21.5 x 14.4 mm
Sensor type CMOS
Colour filter array RGB
Sensor manufacturer Sony
ISO rating Auto, 160, 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200
Zoom wide (W) 24 mm
Zoom tele (T) 120 mm (3.2 x)
Digital zoom Yes
Image stabilization No
Auto Focus Yes
Manual Focus Yes, focus ring, inc. magnification
Auto focus type Multi-Point AF (5 area), Center AF, Spot AF (flexible)
Normal focus range Unknown
Macro focus range Unknown
White balance override 5 positions plus manual
Aperture range F2.8 - F4.8 / F16
Min shutter 30 sec (Bulb 3 mins)
Max shutter 1/2000 sec
Built-in Flash Yes, pop-up
Flash guide no. 8.5 m (27.8 ft) 5 m
External flash Yes, hot-shoe / ACC
Flash modes Auto, On, Off, Red-Eye reduction, Slow Sync
Exposure compensation -2 to +2 EV in 1/3 EV Steps
Metering Multi-Segment, Center weighted, Spot
Aperture priority Yes
Shutter priority Yes
Focal length multiplier 
Lens thread 67 mm
Continuous Drive Yes, 3 fps, 3 images
Movie Clips No
Remote control Optional wired
Self-timer 10 sec
Timelapse recording No
Orientation sensor No
Storage types Memory Stick / Pro, Compact Flash (Type I or II)
Storage included None
Uncompressed format RAW
Compressed format JPEG (EXIF 2.2)
Quality Levels Fine, Standard
Viewfinder Electronic
LCD 2.0 "
LCD Pixels 134,000
Video out Yes
USB Yes, 2.0
Firewire (IEEE 1394) No
Battery / Charger Yes
Battery InfoLithium (NP-FM50) & charger
Weight (inc. batteries) 995 g (35.1 oz)
Dimensions 139 x 168 x 97 mm (5.5 x 6.6 x 3.8 in)

Canon EOS1Ds Mk3 Specs

Body material	Magnesium alloy (exterior, chassis and mirror box)
Sensor *	• 36 x 24 mm CMOS sensor
• Full 35 mm size frame
• RGB Color Filter Array
• Built-in fixed low-pass filter (with self-cleaning unit) 
• 21.9 million total pixels
• 21.1 million effective pixels
• 6.4 µm pixel pitch 
• 3:2 aspect ratio
Image processor *	Dual DIGIC III
A/D conversion *	14 bit
Image sizes (JPEG) *	• 5616 x 3744 (L; 21.0 MP)
• 4992 x 3328 (M1; 16.6 MP)
• 4080 x 2720 (M2; 11.0 MP)
• 2784 x 1856 (S; 5.2 MP)
Image sizes (RAW) *	• 5616 x 3744 (RAW; 21.0 MP)
• 2784 x 1856 (sRAW; 5.2 MP)
File formats	
• RAW (.CR2; 14-bit)
• JPEG (EXIF 2.21) - Fine / Normal 
• RAW + JPEG (separate files)

File sizes (approx.) *	• JPEG L: 6.4 MB
• JPEG M1: 5.2 MB
• JPEG M2: 3.9 MB
• JPEG S: 2.2 MB
• RAW: 25.0 MB
• sRAW: 14.5 MB
JPEG quality options Each JPEG size (L, M1, M2, S) can be set to a quality level of 1 to 10 (1 high compression, low quality - 10 low compression, high quality)
Lenses	• Canon EF lens mount (does not support EF-S lenses)
• No field of view crop (1.0x)
Dust reduction *	• "EOS Integrated Cleaning System"
• Self-cleaning sensor unit (filter in front of sensor vibrates at high frequency at start-up and shutdown - can be disabled)
• Dust Delete Data - Data from a test shot is used to 'map' dust spots and can be later removed using Canon DPP Software
Auto focus	• 45-point TTL
• 19 cross-type points, require F2.8 or faster lens * 
• Center cross-type point requires F4.0 or faster lens 
• 26 assist points, require F5.6 or faster lens *
• TTL-AREA-SIR with a CMOS sensor
• AF working range: -1.0 to 18 EV (at 23°C, ISO 100)
Focus modes	• One shot AF
• AI Servo AF
• Manual focus
AF point selection	• Auto
• Manual (all 19 or inner 9 / outer 9)
AF assist	External Speedlite only
Exposure modes	• Program
• Aperture-priority
• Shutter-priority
• Manual
• Bulb
Metering	
• 63 zone metering linked to 19 AF points * 
• Metering range: 0 - 20 EV
• Modes: Center, Linked to AF point, Multi-spot (up to 8 readings)

Metering modes	
• Evaluative (63 zone linked to active AF point) 
• Center-weighted average
• Partial (8.5% of picture area)
• Spot metering (2.4% of picture area)
AE lock	• Auto: One Shot AF with evaluative metering
• Manual: AE lock button
Exposure compensation	• +/- 3.0 EV
• 0.3 or 0.5 EV increments
Exposure bracketing	• 2, 3, 5 or 7 shots
• +/- 3.0 EV
• 0.3 or 0.5 EV increments
Sensitivity	
• ISO 100 - 1600
• 0.3 or 1.0 EV increments 
• ISO 50 (Enhanced L)
• ISO 3200 (Enhanced H)

Shutter	• Focal-plane shutter
• 300,000 exposure durability * 
• 30 - 1/8000 sec
• 0.3, 0.5 or 1.0 EV increments
• Flash X-Sync: 1/250 sec
• Bulb
Aperture values	• F1.0 - F91
• 0.3, 0.5 or 1.0 EV increments 
• Actual aperture range depends on lens used
Noise reduction	• Long exposure (1 sec or longer)
• Optional for High ISO (default Off) *
White balance	• Auto
• Daylight
• Shade
• Cloudy
• Tungsten
• Fluorescent
• Flash
• Custom (up to 5 can be stored) 
• Kelvin (2500 - 10000 K in 100 K steps)
• Personal WB (up to 5 can be preset in software *)
WB bracketing	• +/-3 levels
• 3 images
• Blue / Amber or Magenta / Green bias
WB shift	• Blue (-9) To Amber (+9)
• Magenta (-9) to Green (+9)
Picture style *	• Standard
• Portrait
• Landscape
• Neutral
• Faithful
• Monochrome
• User def. 1 
• User def. 2
• User def. 3
Custom image parameters *	• Sharpness: 0 to 7
• Contrast: -4 to +4
• Saturation: -4 to +4
• Color tone: -4 to +4
• B&W filter: N, Ye, Or, R, G
• B&W tone: N, S, B, P, G
Color space	• sRGB
• Adobe RGB
Viewfinder	• Eye-level pentaprism
• 100% frame coverage
• Magnification: 0.76x * (-1 diopter with 50 mm lens at infinity) 
• Eyepoint: 20 mm
• Dioptric adjustment: -3 to +1 diopter
• Precision matte screen Ee-C IV (interchangeable) 
• Eye-piece shutter available via lever
Mirror	• Quick-return half mirror (transmission:reflection ratio 37:63)
• Mirror lock-up (once or multiple exposures)
Viewfinder info	• AF points
• Focus confirmation light
• Metering mode
• ISO sensitivity * 
• Shutter speed
• Aperture
• Manual exposure
• AE Lock
• Exposure compensation amount
• AEB level
• Spot metering circle 
• Flash ready
• Red-eye reduction lamp on
• High-speed sync
• FE Lock
• Flash compensation amount
• Warnings
• Maximum burst for continuous shooting
• Buffer space
LCD monitor *	• 3.0" TFT LCD
• 230,000 pixels
• 7 brightness levels
LCD Live view *	• Live TTL display of scene from CMOS image sensor
• 100% frame coverage
• Real-time evaluative metering using CMOS image sensor
• Best view or exposure simulation 
• Grid optional (thirds)
• Magnify optional (5x or 10x at AF point) 
• Aspect ratio masking for 6:6, 3:4, 4:5, 6:7, 10:12 and 5:7
• Remote live view using EOS Utility 2.0 (via USB or WiFi/Ethernet using WFT)
• Manual focus only
Record review	• Off
• On (histogram via INFO button)
• Display mode same as last used Play mode 
• 2 / 4 / 8 sec / Hold
Playback modes *	
1. Single image with exposure, file number, storage slot 
2. As 1 but also image count and quality
3. Detailed exposure information, thumbnail and luminance histogram
4. Less detailed exposure info., thumbnail, luminance and RGB histograms
Playback features	• Optional blinking highlight alert
• Optional AF point display
• Magnified view (up to 10x)
• 2x2 or 3x3 thumbnail index
• Jump (by 1, 10, 100 images / by screen, date or folder) * 
• Delete / Protect
• Record audio clip up to 30 seconds
Flash	• No built-in flash unit
• E-TTL II auto flash / metered manual 
• Flash compensation +/-3.0 EV in 0.3 or 0.5 EV increments
• X-Sync: 1/250 sec
• High-speed flash with EX-series speedlites up to 1/8000 sec 
• Hot-shoe & PC Terminal
Drive modes	• Single
• Silent (single frame) * 
• High-speed continuous: 5 fps * (adjustable 5 - 2 fps) 
• Low-speed continuous: 3 fps * (adjustable 4 - 1 fps) 
• Self-timer: 2 or 10 sec (3 sec with mirror lock-up)
Burst buffer *	• Large/Fine JPEG: 56 frames
• RAW: 12 frames
• RAW+JPEG: 10 frames
Orientation sensor	Yes
Auto rotation *	• On (recorded and LCD display)
• On (recorded only) 
• Off
Custom functions *	57 custom functions in 4 groups
My Menu *	Up to six menu options can be customized
Menu languages *	• English
• German
• French
• Dutch
• Danish
• Portuguese 
• Finnish
• Italian
• Norwegian
• Swedish
• Spanish
• Greek
• Russian 
• Polish 
• Simplified Chinese
• Traditional Chinese
• Korean
• Japanese
Firmware	User upgradable
Wireless	Via WFT-E2/E2A (optional)
Connectivity	
• USB 2.0 Hi-Speed * 
• Video out
• N3 type wired remote control
• PC Sync flash terminal

Storage	• Compact Flash Type I or II (supports UDMA) *
• SD card slot (supports SD/SDHC) * 
• External USB hard drives (requires WFT-E2/E2A) * 
• Canon Original Data Security Kit supported ("Original Image Data")
Storage options *	• Record to one memory card
• Record same image to both CF and SD cards (backup)
• Record RAW image to CF and JPEG to SD card
• Overflow (once one card becomes full camera uses next card)
• Copy from one card to another
Power	• Lithium-Ion LP-E4 rechargeable battery * (supplied & charger)
• AC adapter
Power information	• Current power source
• Remaining capacity
• Current shutter count on this battery charge
• Recharge performance
Dimensions *	150 x 160 x 80 mm (6.1 x 6.2 x 3.1 in)
Weight (no batt) *	1205 g (2.7 lb)
Weight (inc. batt) *	1385 g (3.1 lb)

Please feel free to ask any questions.


----------



## Aaftab

Canon 450d or the magnificent canon 40d (one day)!


----------



## ADZphtg

Sorry, Just as a comparison, A similair price DSLR comparison to the Sony

Canon EOS40D

Body material	Magnesium alloy
Sensor *	• 22.2 x 14.8 mm CMOS sensor
• RGB Color Filter Array
• Built-in fixed low-pass filter (with self-cleaning unit)
• 10.5 million total pixels
• 10.1 million effective pixels
• 5.7 µm pixel pitch 
• 3:2 aspect ratio
Image processor *	DIGIC III
A/D conversion *	14 bit
Image sizes *	• 3888 x 2592 (L; 10.1 MP) 
• 2816 x 1880 (M; 5.3 MP)
• 1936 x 1288 (S; 2.5 MP)
File formats	
• RAW (.CR2; 14-bit *) 
• JPEG (EXIF 2.21) - Fine / Normal 
• RAW + JPEG (separate files)
• sRAW (2.5 MP) *

File sizes (approx.) *	• JPEG L/Fine: 3.5 MB
• JPEG M/Fine: 2.1 MB
• JPEG S/Fine: 1.2 MB
• RAW: 12.4 MB
• sRAW: 7.1 MB
Lenses	• Canon EF / EF-S lens mount
• 1.6x field of view crop
Dust reduction *	• "EOS Integrated Cleaning System"
• Self-cleaning sensor unit (filter in front of sensor vibrates at high frequency at start-up and shutdown - can be disabled)
• Dust Delete Data - Data from a test shot is used to 'map' dust spots and can be later removed using Canon DPP Software
Auto focus	• 9-point TTL CMOS sensor 
• All points cross-type for lenses of F5.6 or faster * 
• Center point additionally sensitive with lenses of F2.8 or faster * 
• AF working range: -0.5 - 18 EV (at 23°C, ISO 100)
Focus modes	• One shot AF
• AI Servo AF
• AI Focus AF
• Manual focus
AF point selection	• Auto
• Manual
AF assist	• Stroboscopic flash
• 4.0 m range (at center)
Metering	• TTL 35 zone SPC
• Metering range: EV 0.0 - 20 EV *
Metering modes	
• Evaluative 35 zone
• Partial (9% at center)
• Spot metering (approx. 3.8% at center *)
• Center-weighted average

AE lock	• Auto: One Shot AF with evaluative metering
• Manual: AE lock button
Exposure compensation	• +/-2.0 EV
• 0.3 or 0.5 EV increments
Exposure bracketing	• +/- 2.0 EV
• 0.3 or 0.5 EV increments
Sensitivity	
• Auto ISO (see below) *
• ISO 100 - 1600
• 0.3 or 1.0 EV increments 
• ISO 3200 (Enhanced H)

Auto ISO *	• P, Av, A-Dep: ISO 400 - 800 (will drop to ISO 100 to avoid over-exposure)
• Tv: ISO 400 (will use 100 - 800 if required)
• M: ISO 400
• Scene modes (apart from Sport and Portrait): ISO 100 - 800
• Sport scene mode: ISO 400 - 800
• Portrait scene mode: ISO 100 
• With flash (all modes): ISO 400
Shutter	• Focal-plane shutter
• 100,000 exposure durability
• 30 - 1/8000 sec
• 0.3 or 0.5 EV increments
• Flash X-Sync: 1/250 sec 
• Bulb
Aperture values	• F1.0 - F91
• 0.3 or 0.5 EV increments 
• Actual aperture range depends on lens used
Noise reduction	• Long exposure (1 sec or longer)
• Optional for High ISO (default Off)
White balance	• Auto
• Daylight 
• Shade
• Cloudy
• Tungsten
• Fluorescent
• Flash
• Custom
• Kelvin (2500 * - 10000 K in 100 K steps)
WB bracketing	• +/-3 levels
• 3 images
• Blue / Amber or Magenta / Green bias
WB shift	• Blue (-9) To Amber (+9)
• Magenta (-9) to Green (+9)
Picture style	• Standard
• Portrait
• Landscape
• Neutral
• Faithful
• Monochrome
• User def. 1 
• User def. 2
• User def. 3
Custom image parameters	• Sharpness: 0 to 7
• Contrast: -4 to +4
• Saturation: -4 to +4
• Color tone: -4 to +4
• B&W filter: N, Ye, Or, R, G
• B&W tone: N, S, B, P, G
Color space	• sRGB
• Adobe RGB
Viewfinder	• Eye-level pentaprism
• 95% frame coverage
• Magnification: 0.95x * (-1 diopter with 50 mm lens at infinity)
• Eyepoint: 22 mm *
• Interchangeable focusing screen Ef-A standard (2 other types optional) * 
• Dioptric adjustment: -3.0 to +1.0 diopter
Focusing screens
(optional)	• Ef-A (Standard Precision Matte - included) 
• Ef-D (Precision Matte with grid) 
• Ef-S (Super Precision Matte for easier manual focus)
Mirror	• Quick-return half mirror (transmission:reflection ratio 40:60)
• Mirror lock-up (once or multiple exposures)
Viewfinder info	• AF points
• Focus confirmation light
• ISO sensitivity * 
• Shutter speed
• Aperture
• Manual exposure
• AE Lock
• Exposure compensation amount
• AEB level
• Spot metering area
• Flash ready
• Red-eye reduction lamp on
• High-speed sync
• FE Lock
• Flash compensation amount
• ISO speed (while changing)
• WB correction (while changing) 
• B&W mode icon * 
• Warnings
• Maximum burst for continuous shooting
• Buffer space
LCD monitor *	• 3.0 " TFT LCD
• 230,000 pixels
• 7 brightness levels
LCD Live view *	
• Live TTL display of scene from CMOS image sensor
• 100% frame coverage
• Real-time evaluative metering using CMOS image sensor
• Best view or exposure simulation 
• Grid optional (thirds)
• Magnify optional (5x or 10x at AF point)
• Optional Auto-focus with mirror-down / mirror-up sequence
• Two modes; normal and quieter 
• Remote live view using EOS Utility 2.0 (via USB or WiFi/Ethernet using WFT)
• Manual focus only

Record review	• Off
• On (histogram via INFO button)
• Display mode same as last used Play mode 
• 2 / 4 / 8 sec / Hold
Playback modes *	
1. Single image with exposure, file number, storage slot 
2. As 1 but also image count and quality
3. Detailed exposure information, thumbnail and luminance histogram
4. Less detailed exposure info., thumbnail, luminance and RGB histograms
Playback features	• Optional blinking highlight alert * 
• Optional AF point display * 
• Magnified view (up to 10x) 
• 2x2 * or 3x3 thumbnail index
• Jump (by 1, 10, 100 images / by screen or date)
• Delete / Protect
Flash	• Auto pop-up E-TTL II auto flash
• FOV coverage up to 17 mm (27 mm equiv.)
• Guide number approx 13 m / 43 ft (ISO 100) 
• Cycle time approx. 3 sec 
• Flash compensation +/-2.0 EV in 0.3 or 0.5 EV increments
• X-Sync: 1/250 sec
External flash	• E-TTL II auto flash with EX-series Speedlites
• In-camera flash configuration (currently only 580 EX II) * 
• Wireless multi-flash support
• PC Sync
Shooting modes	
• Auto
• Program AE (P)
• Shutter priority AE (Tv)
• Aperture priority AE (Av)
• Manual (M)
• Auto depth-of-field
• Portrait
• Landscape
• Close-up
• Sports
• Night portrait
• Flash off
• Camera user settings 1 *
• Camera user settings 2 * 
• Camera user settings 3 *

Drive modes	
• Single
• High-speed continuous: 6.5 fps * 
• Low-speed continuous: 3 fps
• Self-timer: 2 or 10 sec (3 sec with mirror lock-up)

Burst buffer *	• Large/Fine JPEG: 75 frames
• RAW: 17 frames
• RAW+JPEG: 14 frames
Orientation sensor	Yes
Auto rotation *	• On (recorded and LCD display)
• On (recorded only) 
• Off
Custom functions *	24 custom functions in 4 groups
Menu languages *	
• English
• German
• French
• Dutch
• Danish
• Portuguese 
• Finnish
• Italian
• Norwegian
• Swedish
• Spanish
• Greek
• Russian 
• Polish 
• Simplified Chinese
• Traditional Chinese
• Korean
• Japanese

Firmware	User upgradable
Portrait grip	• Optional WFT-E3/E3A * 
• Optional BP-E2N battery grip * 
• Optional BP-E2 battery grip
Connectivity	
• USB 2.0 Hi-Speed
• Video out
• N3 type wired remote control
• PC Sync flash terminal
• Communication terminal on base for WFT-E3/E3A *

Storage	• Compact Flash Type I or II (inc. FAT32) 
• Canon Original Data Security Kit supported ("Original Image Data")
• No CF card supplied
Power	• Lithium-Ion BP-511A rechargeable battery (supplied & charger)
• Supports BP-511 / BP-511A / BP-512 / BP-514 
• CR2016 Lithium battery (date/time backup)
• Optional AC adapter
Wireless connectivity * 
(optional WFT-E3/E3A)	• Mounts on base of camera and also acts as vertical grip
• Has its own BP-511A battery 
• Wireless 802.11b / 802.11g
• Wireless security: WEP, TKIP/AES, WPA-PSK, WPA2-PSK
• Wireless methods: Infrastructure or Ad Hoc 
• Wired ethernet (100 Base-TX)
• Transfer: FTP, PTP (remote control by computer), HTTP (view / remote fire)
• USB host capable: External hard drives, flash drives
• USB comms: GPS devices (records coordinates and altitude in image header)
Dimensions *	146 x 108 x 74 mm (5.7 x 4.2 x 2.9 in)
Weight *	• No battery: 740 g (1.6 lb)
• With battery: 822 g (1.8 lb)

Even allowing for a good L lens the price is similar. A bridge camera will NEVER be able to compare to a DSLR, Lens ranges, Exposure control, SLR, EV range etc etc, The list would go on and on.
I do use a "Bridge camera" if you wish to call it that, I don't personally. Most pro's do have a small compact/bridge type toy. Mainly used for covert work, Staff party's and general merryment stuff. 
If you simply MUST have a small non DSLR then I would reccomend one of these, A bit bling but it is the best non DSLR you can buy
http://us.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m8/

Adam


----------



## [email protected]

soooo boring reading copy & paste...

i'm in the same boat as the OP - best advice always seems to be go into your local jessops etc - play about with both, see which suits best, and then go find it cheaper elsewhere!


----------



## -ROM-

ZoranC said:


> Obviously even pros are divided on this and other side has quite a bit of pro names on it so that is good enough for me.
> 
> I will not ask you to define what constitutes a professional camera, which I assume you can do by defining sensor size, sensitivity, speed, specs of lenses, features, etc, to which I would point out to you that they are all met by top of the line bridge cameras, because I have already asked you to support your statement with tests of specs and you have decided to avoid answer that would end up embarassing you.
> 
> I will instead ask you following: Do you realize DSC-R1 has exactly same sensor that was in Sony DSLRs of that generation? Do you realize it has Carl Zeiss T* lens on it? Do you realize that is a bridge camera that you say can not be professional yet it has exactly same, if not better, hardware and specs than DSLRs that you do call professional? Tell that to pros in Sony forums that use DSC-R1 to earn their living. Actually, you don't have to. I will do it for you and see what they have to say. Maybe I could even get some of them to contribute their input here.


The problem you seem to have is you think that because one or two of the specs are the same you think the cameras are on par.

You aren't accounting for things such as how accurate the white balance is, focus speed, accuracy of the metering system, focus tracking, environmental seals, shutter response, 100% view finder, etc etc. I really could go on and on, but until you actually spend some time with a pro/semi pro DSLR with some expensive glass nothing i say will convince you.

Myself and Adam have used pro equipment and consumer equipment so can make an infomred decision, you are basing your decisions on paper specs and what other "pros" in an online fourm say.


----------



## Mike V

Get yourself down to the local camera shop. Try a few models out. See what you liek the feels of and whats the most comfortable to use.

I myself would love a NIkon D80. Currently I have the D70 because I couldnt afford the D80. As soon as I get some spare cash I will upgrade. I prefer the higher resolution. Faster FPS etc

Most importantly to me I need the bigger screen on the back. With the D70 I look at the images on the back of the screen and all seems fine. Get home from the studio and put the images on the computer only to find out that the image is over/under exposed, or wrong white balance was used etc etc.

With the D80 you can see the image nice and clearly on the back and see if you have achieved what you were after.:thumb:

Just my bit of input.


----------



## ZoranC

ADZphtg said:


> Just for Zoran,
> Specs comparison, ...
> ...
> Please feel free to ask any questions.


Thank you for the copy and paste, but I was not asking to compare paper specs, I was asking to compare resolution, etc. Actual measurements.

Also, you are comparing camera that used to cost $1000 (including lens) to camera that used to cost $8000 body only?! No comment, that should tell people a lot. That doesn't say anything negative about bridge as vast majority of DSLRs on market would not be in fair fight either.

Even your second example is not apples-to-apples, 40D is $1200 just for body.

So I have just two questions for you:

What would be total cost of D40 when equipped with zoom lenses covering 24-120mm range whose performance meets or exceeds that of ones on DSC-R1, how many times more expensive it would be over DSC-R1?

Which DSLR and zoom lenses covering 24-120mm range would meet or exceed performance of DSC-R1 while being "only" 25% more expensive than DSC-R1?

Looking forward to the answer. Thank you in advance!


----------



## ZoranC

rmorgan84 said:


> The problem you seem to have is you think that because one or two of the specs are the same you think the cameras are on par.
> 
> You aren't accounting for things such as how accurate the white balance is, focus speed, accuracy of the metering system, focus tracking, environmental seals, shutter response, 100% view finder, etc etc. I really could go on and on, but until you actually spend some time with a pro/semi pro DSLR with some expensive glass nothing i say will convince you.
> 
> Myself and Adam have used pro equipment and consumer equipment so can make an infomred decision, you are basing your decisions on paper specs and what other "pros" in an online fourm say.


I am still waiting on your answer which zoom lens meet or exceed performance of ones on DSC-R1 in the same range, and at which cost.

Looking forward to your answer. Thank you in advance!


----------



## RaH

Depending on what you want to use the camera for, will determine which camera you should buy.

Personally, i would ask yourself what you intend on doing with the camera, then go to one of your local shops and hold them, Take some shots. I was set on buying a canon until i held it and then took hold of a Nikon.

Rob.


----------



## Russ and his BM

I love my D40.

Team it with an iMac and you're sorted!


----------



## Mike V

RaH said:


> Depending on what you want to use the camera for, will determine which camera you should buy.
> 
> Personally, i would ask yourself what you intend on doing with the camera, then go to one of your local shops and hold them, Take some shots. I was set on buying a canon until i held it and then took hold of a Nikon.
> 
> Rob.


Im willing to bet you found the canon almost cheap and kinda tacky like a childs toy camera. I would agree the nikon has a better feel to the build quality.


----------



## Shiny

To be honest, i found it the other way round.


----------



## -ROM-

ZoranC said:


> I am still waiting on your answer which zoom lens meet or exceed performance of ones on DSC-R1 in the same range, and at which cost.
> 
> Looking forward to your answer. Thank you in advance!


Ok i'll concede if you are strapped for cash when deciding on getting a new camera or are looking for a camera to go on holiday with, the Sony blah blah whatever it's called might resolve more detail than an equivalent price DSLR using imatest or similar, (i can't be bothered to go checking).

However if you think that resolved detail is the be all and end all of photography then as i stated earlier there's no point us having this conversation as you simply aren't able to appreciate the points i am making!


----------



## ZoranC

rmorgan84 said:


> Ok i'll concede if you are strapped for cash when deciding on getting a new camera or are looking for a camera to go on holiday with, the Sony blah blah whatever it's called might resolve more detail than an equivalent price DSLR using imatest or similar, (i can't be bothered to go checking).
> 
> However if you think that resolved detail is the be all and end all of photography then as i stated earlier there's no point us having this conversation as you simply aren't able to appreciate the points i am making!


Let's assume I am not strapped for cash and would appreciate your pointer which exactly DSLR zoom lens would meet or exceed performance of ones on DSC-R1 while covering same range. I am asking because you claimed that even cheapest DSLR lenses will outperform any bridge.

So please substantiate your claim if it is a valid claim. Point out as many as you can to us please of proves to that claim and you don't have to bother with checking the price, I will do that for you.

Looking forward to it. Thank you in advance!


----------



## ZoranC

To make this discussion even more interesting here is a side-by-side comparo of Canon G9 $450 compact vs. Canon 5D DSLR that is $2000 body only:

http://www.thecleverest.com/photography/281

Results are almost indistinguishable majority of the times.

Interesting isn't it? Make your own conclusions.


----------



## Rich @ PB

But none of this bickering is helping the chap who started the thread!!! The original question has been addressed by numerous replies, and the chap now has some suggestions to look into for "a DSLR to start with". I suggest you all start a new thread if you want to carry on the bickering about the unrelated issue.


----------



## The Autowerks

WX51 TXR said:


> But none of this bickering is helping the chap who started the thread!!! The original question has been addressed by numerous replies, and the chap now has some suggestions to look into for "a DSLR to start with". I suggest you all start a new thread if you want to carry on the bickering about the unrelated issue.


here here, the last couple of pages have gone completely over my head, and i was reading the beginning of the thread with interest as i'm in the same boat.

however, i have a question regarding either the canon or nikon models, can a wide angle lens be fitted to either or both? nothing crazy wide, just wide enough to take a pic of a car like the pro detailers do - i'm not going to be taking pics in a ridiculously confined space (as per my Premises Refurbishment thread).


----------



## Mike V

Harry said:


> here here, the last couple of pages have gone completely over my head, and i was reading the beginning of the thread with interest as i'm in the same boat.
> 
> however, i have a question regarding either the canon or nikon models, can a wide angle lens be fitted to either or both? nothing crazy wide, just wide enough to take a pic of a car like the pro detailers do - i'm not going to be taking pics in a ridiculously confined space (as per my Premises Refurbishment thread).


If you got a DSLR you could add any lens you wanted. Wide angle, normal, telephoto, telescopic, macro.

You would probly want to get a small selection to suit your needs.

For example. I have a wide angle 10-20mm for landscapes and car closeups.
A normal 28-70mm for 'regular shots such as portraits.
A macro 50mm (fixed) for close ups of swirls, bugs, flowers etc
And finaly a telephoto 70-300mm for things like track days to help me 'zoom' into the action!

You can get expensive lenses like Nikon's own brand which can have Vibration reduction etc or you can get cheaper versions like sigma. I have a sigma wide angle and it works perfectly well. To an amateur there is no difference in image clarity etc,.


----------



## Rich @ PB

Harry said:


> here here, the last couple of pages have gone completely over my head, and i was reading the beginning of the thread with interest as i'm in the same boat.
> 
> however, i have a question regarding either the canon or nikon models, can a wide angle lens be fitted to either or both? nothing crazy wide, just wide enough to take a pic of a car like the pro detailers do - i'm not going to be taking pics in a ridiculously confined space (as per my Premises Refurbishment thread).


Yes, all entry level DSLR's by Nikon or Canon will have wide angle lens options; for Nikons, I have their 16mm-85mm VR lens, which will work fine on any of the D40, D60 or D80 models. It's turned out to be pretty great at the wide angle of 16mm for getting whole cars into shot in our (small) unit, while the long end is just long enough for the rest of the shots I need to get - see the latest Polished Bliss 911 Turbo thread in the studio for example shots.


----------



## The Autowerks

cheers guys, very helpful.


----------



## -ROM-

WX51 TXR said:


> But none of this bickering is helping the chap who started the thread!!! The original question has been addressed by numerous replies, and the chap now has some suggestions to look into for "a DSLR to start with". I suggest you all start a new thread if you want to carry on the bickering about the unrelated issue.


The bickering comes in because this ZoranC chap, who constantly trys to disrupt this forum with his abrasive behaviour is trying to make out that some bridge camera is the equal to a DSLR simply because some of the specs are the same.

The reason i have "bickered" with him is because i don't want to OP to take his advice and buy one then be very disappointed.

This will be my last post on the subject as i've now fully voiced my views and the OP can make up his own mind by reviewing the info in this thread!


----------



## Mike V

I have to agree with rmorgan84.

Just because the specs are the same does not mean the cameras are equal.

There are many unaccounted for qualities like how each camera processes the information; how each camera reduces the image for storage. i.e. compression types.


----------



## Russ and his BM

Ditto


----------



## ZoranC

rmorgan84 said:


> This will be my last post on the subject as i've now fully voiced my views and the OP can make up his own mind by reviewing the info in this thread!


Yes, you have voiced your views but as of now you have not substantiated your view (about difference in quality) with a single factual proof in spite of multiple invitations to do so. On the other side I did provide a side-by-side pf Canon compact against Canon DSLR that costs 5+ times more.

That tells everything that needs to be told. Disagreeing with you and asking you to provide more quality behind your post does not contstitute "disruption of forum". It only constitutes disruption of bad advice that is not founded on facts.

On one thing we do agree: Enough has been posted to allow for intelligent people to be able to make intelligent decision.


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## ZoranC

MIKELSKAS said:


> There are many unaccounted for qualities like how each camera processes the information; how each camera reduces the image for storage. i.e. compression types.


I see you are speaking without knowing much about how comparison is done. Comparisons on this level are not done JPG-to-JPG, they are done RAW-to-RAW. RAW is full information straight from the sensor. No processing, no compression, no nothing, pure picture.


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## andyboygsi

WX51 TXR said:


> I would agree; if you have little camera knowledge the entry level models will be easier to learn on, but for what you intend to do a higher spec model will pay off in the long run. The D80 in the Nikon range makes sense given your budget. I suggest buying yourself Practical Photography for the next six months, as they are giving away a free six part guide on how to learn to use DSLR's, and it's all very simple and well presented. :thumb:


im doing that haha


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## The Autowerks

right, i've been reading reviews on the nikon d40 online and the cheapest i have found it is £279.99 which includes the 18-55mm lens, from a company called buyacamera.co.uk. Apparently Nikon are doing a cashback deal on their cameras at the moment, and the D40 with 18-55mm lens would get £30 cashback, bring the cost down to £249.99....not bad i think.

now when i asked the guy about a wide angle lense he suggested the Sigma 15m fixed lens @ £376! After i picked myself off the floor he said that maybe i should give the standard lens a go first as it is considered a fairly wide angled lens to begin with.

So here's my question, the camera that i have been using so far is my dads Fujifilm FinePix S602, and according to the specs on the web it's got a 7.8-46.8mm lens, so won't this mean it's got a wider angle than the D40 with the 18-55mm lens??

I may not be comparing apples to apples, but i'm a novice.


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## -ROM-

Because the sensors in the compact cameras are smaller the focal length of 7.8 doesn't actually mean much, it is probably the equivalent of 33mm. 

The 18-55 is the equivalent of about 27mm so you should actually be slighlty better off at the wide end with the 18-55 kit lens.

If you do want to go W I  D E R in the future then it isn't cheap but the Sigma 10-20mm is prob your best bet at approx £280.


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## The Autowerks

rmorgan84 said:


> Because the sensors in the compact cameras are smaller the focal length of 7.8 doesn't actually mean much, it is probably the equivalent of 33mm.
> 
> The 18-55 is the equivalent of about 27mm so you should actually be slighlty better off at the wide end with the 18-55 kit lens.
> 
> If you do want to go W I D E R in the future then it isn't cheap but the Sigma 10-20mm is prob your best bet at approx £280.


excellent, so i should be okay with the standard lens on the nikon.

have you ever heard of this buyaacamera.co.uk company? they are only twenty quid cheaper than john lewis and at least then if something does go wrong you can take it straight back in person.


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## dsolds

As RMORGAN84 says, the 18-55 is a blinding lense. You won't need much wider than that unless you're up really close to the subjects you mentioned in your OP.
Mr Morgan and I have had several discussions in various posts, not always in agreement, sometimes fully agreeing. I too am a Nikon user (D300 + 18-200 nikon) and would say that his views are based on a lot of knowledge and they are unbiased. On this occasion I fully agree with his comments. The 18-55 will serve you well for what you specified.


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## The Autowerks

dsolds said:


> As RMORGAN84 says, the 18-55 is a blinding lense. You won't need much wider than that unless you're up really close to the subjects you mentioned in your OP.
> Mr Morgan and I have had several discussions in various posts, not always in agreement, sometimes fully agreeing. I too am a Nikon user (D300 + 18-200 nikon) and would say that his views are based on a lot of knowledge and they are unbiased. On this occasion I fully agree with his comments. The 18-55 will serve you well for what you specified.


just what i wanted to hear - after yours and rmorgan's replies i'm confident enough to just go and buy it.

i've not looked into the other cameras that have been suggested in this thread, because as a complete newbie to this they all seem the same to me, and as someone suggested in this thread, i won't know what i'm missing out on (if in fact i willbe missing out on anything) by getting the D40 as opposed to one of the other makes of camera.


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## -ROM-

I haven't heard of that place however dixons are doing it for £272 inc. delivery!

http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/prod267.html


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## The Autowerks

i popped into currys on the way home to see if they would match the dixons online price. i couldn't get served for love nor money and got bored of waiting, so i left after a while. in addition to the Nikon D40, they also had the Sony A200 priced at £299. Now the Sony looks like a much better camera on paper, 10.2m pixel as opposed to 6.1m, and a 18-70mm lens as opposed to 18-55mm on the Nikon. 

People were saying previously that you only pay for the name with the Sony cameras, but this one is equally priced with a better spec, do i go for the Sony instead?


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## -ROM-

Harry said:


> i popped into currys on the way home to see if they would match the dixons online price. i couldn't get served for love nor money and got bored of waiting, so i left after a while. in addition to the Nikon D40, they also had the Sony A200 priced at £299. Now the Sony looks like a much better camera on paper, 10.2m pixel as opposed to 6.1m, and a 18-70mm lens as opposed to 18-55mm on the Nikon.
> 
> People were saying previously that you only pay for the name with the Sony cameras, but this one is equally priced with a better spec, do i go for the Sony instead?


The sony is probably a better camera, and as you say the lens has a bit more reach.

So if you aren't going to treat it as a serious hobby then the sony would prob be the better bet. however if you can see yourself getting hooked and buying different lenses, flash guns, etc then you are better off going with nikon as the range of accesories and lenses is huge!

so to sum up:

Sony = better standalone camera
Nikon = better system and long term investment if you start to take photography seriously


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## The Autowerks

i think it'll be a very very long time before i out grow the Sony, if ever. 

i'm buying the camera in order to upload pictures onto my website as opposed to purchasing it to start as a hobby.

i've read that the useability of the nikon is very good, the interface is very easy to use and navigate, can the same be said for the sony? or is the menu system complicated and fiddly?


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## -ROM-

The sony system isn't what i would call complicated, it's just that nikon have really perfected their's so it might make the sony's look complicated!


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## The Autowerks

i'll have a play with them both tomorrow (if i can ever get a bit of service) and see which i get on with better. 

i'm sure if i bought the nikon it would do me for years to come aswell.

the sony is £272 from dixons so i'm going to see if they'll price match

thanks, most helpful


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## The Autowerks

done and dusted....went into currys to have a feel of them both and although i was going to go for the sony because of the extra zoom i ended up going with the nikon for one main reason.....looking through the viewfinder of the sony was like looking through the nikon but with sunglases on, it was significantly darker and enough to make me think that it'd cause a problem for low light picture-taking.

they even matched the dixons online price with the £5 off aswell, so i got the D40 with the lens for £267.16 and have just sent off the form for the £30 cashback. 

now i gotta get to grips with the thing, not got a clue, off to read the manual


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## -ROM-

Well done, the nikon might be missing a few features of the sony but it is a far more polished and refinded product from a company who really know what they talking about when it comes to DSLRs.

It should serve you well!


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## Mark J

Should have got a Canon.....
















































:devil: :lol:


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## -ROM-

Mark J said:


> Should have got a Canon.....
> 
> :devil: :lol:


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## Mark J

rmorgan84 said:


>


You've 'shopped' that


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## -ROM-

Sorry couldn't resist, i was originally trying to find the "Cannot" logo but i couldn't find it!:lol:


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## The Autowerks

:lol:

i just need to buy a case for it now. 

know where i can find one cheap?


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## -ROM-

www.7dayshop.com sometimes have some good deals on that sort of thing.


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## Lirin

Both camera manufacturers, Canon and Nikon, are suppored by Tamron and Sigma, independant lens/ flash/ accessory manufacturers. Out of the two, Sigma tend to be slightly better, with sturdier lenses and a better quality of cut, but Tamron can sometimes give extremely good prices....

These lenses are higher spec than the kit lens supplied with your Nikon, but are in no way near the quality of the pro lenses by Canon/ Nikon....

If you're only starting out, using Sigma or Tamron could save you a fair bit of money.


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## Lirin

rmorgan84 said:


> www.7dayshop.com sometimes have some good deals on that sort of thing.


They do have good deals, I'll just warn here- they're not obliged to supply UK warranties, as they're Jersey based..... I've had a few bits from them, though, and never had any problem yet.


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## haxbyscoobs

Right i've decided i'm going as a starter package

Nikon D40 Bundle from jessops

As here

The D40 (Black) + 18-55mm Value Bundle consists of the following:

# 1 x Nikon D40 Black + AF-S DX 18-55mm Lens (5114993)
# 1 x Sigma 55-200mm f4/5.6 DC HSM for Nikon AF (5120852)
# 1 x Sandisk 2GB Ultra II SD Memory Card (5009554)

http://www.jessops.com/Store/s73877...kuOfferingPriceASC&IsInStockOnly=False&comp=y

£409.00 is this a good deal for me as a starter package

They said they will throw a tripod in for free and bag too

plus £40.00 cashback from nikon so total price is £369.99

Mr Morgan help am i making the right choice as a novice?


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## -ROM-

Yeah that seems like a good deal, once you get the £40 cash back that means you are paying £369 plus they are throwing in a bag and a tripod which are probably worth £15-£20 each so all in all i think that's pretty good value for money!


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## haxbyscoobs

rmorgan84 said:


> Yeah that seems like a good deal, once you get the £40 cash back that means you are paying £369 plus they are throwing in a bag and a tripod which are probably worth £15-£20 each so all in all i think that's pretty good value for money!


Cheers dude

On my way to go get it now then before they shut at 7pm!!!


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## haxbyscoobs

Well i got the camera and bundle and had a quick look at it when i got home

not really had chance yet too read manual but will do then i'll get some good shots taken over next few days


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## -ROM-

cool have a look here:

www.bythom.com he has lots of tips and an absolutely fantastic manual/user guide for the D40. It costs about £20 and is probably the best £20 you'll spend.


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## mattchubb1

i was thinking about getting the canon 450d??? although they are quite new, so not many offers out there at the moment...


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## -ROM-

mattchubb1 said:


> i was thinking about getting the canon 450d??? although they are quite new, so not many offers out there at the moment...


TBH mate i wouldn't get too caught up on the whole 450D/400D D40/D60/D80 etc as the camera is not that important!

IMO if people spent as much time worrying about technique and time practicing photography as they did worrying about what kit then there would be a lot of fantastic photographers around!


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## mattchubb1

rmorgan84 said:


> TBH mate i wouldn't get too caught up on the whole 450D/400D D40/D60/D80 etc as the camera is not that important!
> 
> IMO if people spent as much time worrying about technique and time practicing photography as they did worrying about what kit then there would be a lot of fantastic photographers around!


You are probably very right there!!


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## nmdbase

A Pentax k 100d super is a very good camera, better than my nikon d50 and it comes out better on tests than a d40


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## ADZphtg

rmorgan84 said:


> TBH mate i wouldn't get too caught up on the whole 450D/400D D40/D60/D80 etc as the camera is not that important!
> 
> IMO if people spent as much time worrying about technique and time practicing photography as they did worrying about what kit then there would be a lot of fantastic photographers around!


Strewth Mr Morgan. KEEP QUIET about that, Only thing that keeps me in employment!!


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