# Help please - trying to dull down lacquer finish



## kdh (Nov 6, 2011)

A weird question but here goes, all help appreciated.

I'm trying to dull down the finish of my car's bodywork and give it a 'matt' look. It's a very shiny silver BMW.

I've started by using 1500 wet and dry paper, followed by 2500, followed by rubbing compound.

It's starting to work but it's hard to get the finish looking smooth and mark-free and it's hard to get rid of the shine.

Any tips please. Thanks.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Can't see why you'd ruin the paint work to achive a matt finish tbh, especially when you can wrap it.


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Welcome aboard ...:wave:

Now that is a weird post for this site but certainly in the best section....

It seams alien to want to dull by damaging the lacquer hope the paint guys can help, but if its a proper mat finish i would have thought the body wrap and associated expense.


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## kdh (Nov 6, 2011)

I said it was a weird question, but then we're all different. Thanks for the welcome.

A wrap is simply way too expensive. I am getting exactly the finish I want but up close, it has swirl marks where you can see where I've flatted it.

Using rubbing compound brings the shine back up which I don't want.

Would using a much higher grit paper like maybe 4000 smooth the whole area out?


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## ginge7289 (Feb 21, 2011)

surely if you do that procedure correctly it will make it shinier? Unless you dont take out the sanding marks. Then that would look horrible IMHO


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## Matt- (Sep 8, 2011)

no advice im afraid, but would love to see a pic lol


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## kdh (Nov 6, 2011)

Thanks for your input.


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

Not heard of anything like this before but the only thing I acn think of is Scotchpads in the fine form. I use these for making a key in paint plus they bend in all directions so you can follow body contours.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

welcome to the site. I'm glad it's your own car coz it sounds like your dong a good job of ruining the paint. You say you're slowly getting there... Do you mean you're through the lacquer down to just colour?
:wall::wall:

A wrap will be cheaper than the respray you're going to need!

I honestly don't think you can achieve what you're looking for without putting something on the surface - and I can't think of a product other than a wrap which will give a matt finish.

sorry.


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## kdh (Nov 6, 2011)

Nanoman said:


> I'm glad it's your own car coz it sounds like your dong a good job of ruining the paint. You say you're slowly getting there... Do you mean you're through the lacquer down to just colour?
> 
> A wrap will be cheaper than the respray you're going to need!


I'm not down to the colour, just flattening the lacquer to give a matt finish, but it's taking a long time experimenting with various grades of wet n dry and compound. It's working fine and looks just as good as a matt wrap, and unlike a wrap, it doesn't pull the lacquer off the edges when you remove it.


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## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

I'd get it wrapped, not only will it look a lot better but when you come to selling your car you'll actually stand a chance of selling it rather than everyone telling you that you've ruined the paintwork.


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

im not entirely convinced this is 100% real.
if it is accept my apology but matt looks ****!
why would you willingly rape your car with sandpaper?
my car is my car but i wouldnt set fire to it and say its mine to do as i please.
as suggested get it wrapped if you must. otherwise itll be a pig to sell.


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## kdh (Nov 6, 2011)

I can assure you it's real and I appreciate all your concerns.

Why can't I polish it back up when I come to sell it? Isn't that what you do with lacquer after you've sprayed it - flat it off, then polish it?


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

kdh said:


> I can assure you it's real and I appreciate all your concerns.
> 
> Why can't I polish it back up when I come to sell it? Isn't that what you do with lacquer after you've sprayed it - flat it off, then polish it?


Yeah but when Im respraying I take the flatting and polishing into account and give an extra coat or two.
If youre going to hack it back to make it matt then polish it back up the clear will probably end up quite thin depending on how much youve already removed and will need to remove to polish it up.Thats if it is cleared? I assume it is.If not you may even end up striking through to the primer.
Alot of faffing!


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

kdh said:


> I can assure you it's real and I appreciate all your concerns.
> 
> Why can't I polish it back up when I come to sell it? Isn't that what you do with lacquer after you've sprayed it - flat it off, then polish it?


Odd request, needs an odd but viable answer.

You'd be better to go over with matt lacquer via rattle cans, then machine it off when you want to sell it, that way you've got all the original paint on ya car :thumb:


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## wookey (Jul 13, 2007)

You're going to really struggle to get a perfectly uniform matte finish from wet sanding, as you are always going to end up with directional sanding marks.

The only thing I can suggest is lots and lots of paper and gallons of water, and even more luck!


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## kdh (Nov 6, 2011)

Thanks, I was considering the rattle can matt lacquer route.Once it's been on the car for a while though, would it be difficult to remove with just a polisher? Could it be removed with white spirit or something or would that remove the original shiny lacquer as well?

'Directional sanding marks' are indeed the problem (sorry, I didn't know the tech term) and I'm going off the whole idea at the moment and considering wrapping. Problem is as I mentioned before, the wrap can lift the lacquer right off the paint along the edges when removing it. And then it would definitely be a respray.


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## Techgeek (Jun 7, 2007)

What about 4000 grit mirka pads on a DA? that would probably be the closest to what your trying to achieve. Its always going to have a bit of a white tint to it though from the damage to the lacquer.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

ITHAQVA said:


> Odd request, needs an odd but viable answer.
> 
> You'd be better to go over with matt lacquer via rattle cans, then machine it off when you want to sell it, that way you've got all the original paint on ya car :thumb:


That might indeed be a good option - better than wrecking the factory finish. You'd still need to wetsand/polish it down to sell on.



Techgeek said:


> What about 4000 grit mirka pads on a DA? that would probably be the closest to what your trying to achieve. Its always going to have a bit of a white tint to it though from the damage to the lacquer.


Yeah, I was thinking the Mirka pads - PB sell them in singles of packs on the website.

O.P check out Miracle Detail's recent M5 wetsand post - that'll show you what wetsanding can do to the finish.

I would say though that you'd just look like someone who had wrecked their paint and couldn't afford to respray it - in my opinion.


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## kdh (Nov 6, 2011)

Thanks, is the Miracle Detail post on this forum?

Does anyone know if there is a matt lacquer that is easily removable without damaging the original gloss lacquer underneath?


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## DMH-01 (Mar 29, 2011)

kdh said:


> Thanks, is the Miracle Detail post on this forum?


http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=238898


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## kdh (Nov 6, 2011)

Thanks, that's amazing work.


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

If you are hoping to get a true matt finish from your clearcoat via wet sanding or Mirka pads etc it aint going to happen, you will always have a base that has a shine incorporated in it....the matt look is achieved by using a matting agent in the clearcoat which controls the amount of shine/gloss released by the clear itself....if you use a dedicated matting paste with a grey scotchbrite pad it will matt the surface but its never going to look anything like a true matt finish with standard clearcoat....

Russ


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## kdh (Nov 6, 2011)

Thanks Russ, would an aerosol matt lacquer get the effect I want do you think or would that shine keep coming through?


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## ginge7289 (Feb 21, 2011)

You could use a matt lacquer, but it will have to bond to your existing paint which would be done by making the paint underneath rough so it has something to grip to. However you will not be able to remove it. If you did not rough up the existing paint then you will find that the new paint will start to peel off over a short period of time. You will also not get the coats even and IMHO it will look horrible. A wrap will cost in the region of £400 - £600 roughly. I don't see why you want to decrease the re sale price of your car by continuing with what you are doing.


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## kdh (Nov 6, 2011)

Thanks. Have wrapping costs come down recently? Best quote I got for a BMW 3-series Touring was £1400 plus vat from Racoon.


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## JJ_ (Oct 26, 2005)

I'd buy a rattle can from halfords and make sure it's matt. Plus if you want a better effect make sure you spray it outside under a tree to get a nice texture to the matt clear coat.


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## kdh (Nov 6, 2011)

Which Halfords? 


Or will any branch do.


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## wookey (Jul 13, 2007)

I think rattle cans of matte lacquer will end in disaster personally.


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## JJ_ (Oct 26, 2005)

Sorry mate I was pullin your leg. This is an epic thread


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

JJ_ said:


> This is an epic thread


I agree.


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## ITHAQVA (Feb 20, 2011)

JJ_ said:


> I'd buy a rattle can from halfords and make sure it's matt. Plus if you want a better effect make sure you spray it outside under a tree to get a nice texture to the matt clear coat.





JJ_ said:


> Sorry mate I was pullin your leg. This is an epic thread


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: PSML!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## kdh (Nov 6, 2011)

Update:
Not sure if I can carry on the thread in this section as I'm veering off into another technique. I've posted also in the wax and polish section.

WAX

This afternoon after restoring the rear wing of my silver BMW back to factory 'shiny', I applied a thick coat of Original Simoniz Wax (in the yellow tin) with a sponge and just left it. I thought I had cracked the problem as it dried with a matt effect but the problem was, still slightly streaky. But getting there!

I then thought of New cars that arrive covered in a dull wax with a nice matt look. Does anyone know what sort of wax they use? Maybe that would do the trick?

This is a new car and I really love this look:


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## Damien89 (May 13, 2007)

Their's a type of chemical you can add to the clear coat before painting that when the clear dries it dries in a matt finish.

That is the only way possible except to wrap the car.


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## JJ_ (Oct 26, 2005)

Is this called the "rat look" your after ?


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## waqasr (Oct 22, 2011)

cant tell...if..serious..

If you are truely are though, theres no way you will get the finish your after by sanding, you will be able to clearly tell its been sanded. Your gonna need matt laquer from halford and even that is going to cost a fair bit as you will need a good few cans.


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

Trying to give the rat look to a silver car by sanding it back ???????

Isn't the rat look is all about a flat colour with a matt finish
Silver isn't flat ... it's reflective, and until you dull the silvers in the paint it will always be reflective, and the only way to dull the silver would be to sand through the clear and into the paint. And then it'll end up flat grey.

So you may as well respray it in grey primer. Simple


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Whatever you do please don't spray it with matte lacquer - that's a sure fire way to wreck the car's resale value. If you can get an acceptable look with with wet sanding (needs to be with DA machine) then use that technique - at least the paint can be polished up before reselling. If you spray with matte lacquer yo will not be able to remove it effectively.


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## Lemongrab (Jul 27, 2009)

In my humble opinion:


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## jubileebug (Jan 25, 2008)

This is a wind up!


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## Mikej857 (Jan 17, 2012)

I just dont understand why anyone would want to do this and anyone with any sense would just wait till they have the avaliable funds and get the car wrapped to at least make it easier to resell.

Flatting and then compounding is just simply removing a layer of the clear coat so the more you do it the more paint your removing so eventually you will burn through and ruin the whole panel.

The normal members want a nice shiny clean car and your asking for info on how to do the opposite!!!!

Someone please tell me this is a wind up


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

UncleOrlando said:


> In my humble opinion:


....you took your time to come to that conclusion!


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