# Don't look here ....



## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Well unless I missed it, no one has mentioned this

And now the review says polish and waxes :thumb:


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

Have a look at the comments from the first comment on that haha. Pretty accurate.

There seems to be a continual confusion as to what polishing is compared to waxing!! 

I'm glad to say I actually worked out the difference between polishing and waxing way before I found this place. It's really not that hard haha.


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## tony2 (Jan 31, 2010)

He Certainly told him!!!!


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

I saw that in the mag and couldn’t believe it, why won’t they distinguish between the two types of product


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

uruk hai said:


> I saw that in the mag and couldn't believe it, why won't they distinguish between the two types of product


To be fair, the Comma is an AIO so the description now fits the article at least it's a step in the right direction, .....which product won this time?


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## SteveOC (May 26, 2007)

Here we go again.

Starts well enough............

_Top 12 Polishes And Waxes
Take a look at our test of 12 polishes that aim to keep your car looking like new_

Accompanied by a photo of 12 products. OK so far.

Then we see..........

_We put 25 waxes and polishes on our test bonnet....._

Huh! I thought there were 12, now there are 25?

Then we look at the 14 Photos/writeups.........
Huh! I thought there were 12 or maybe even 25 products?

Looking more closely I see that 1 of the 14 is a hybrid photo of 1 collinite wax and a caption of the other collinite wax.

That leaves 13 photos/captions.

Turtle Wax High Gloss Car Wax makes a '2nd ppearance' but with a picture of something that doesn't feature in the original photo of 12 products?

After that, maybe there were 12 products tested after all, who knows.

Now the only thing that has my attention is the mystery product in the little black bottle that didn't make it into the review, even after masquerading as Turtle Wax High Gloss Car Wax.

Over to you AE.

Steve O.


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## badly_dubbed (Dec 11, 2008)

load of crap if u ask me - 476 would destroy all of those on test with realative ease.


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## SteveOC (May 26, 2007)

I think I have solved the mystery of the '13th' random product, I think it is Turtle Wax Trim Gel / Wax










Steve O.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

badly_dubbed said:


> load of crap if u ask me - 476 would destroy all of those on test with realative ease.


Heh heh, but would it though????
AG HD is robust, Simoniz Original is robust, Artemiswax seal is robust , RG42 is robust.
I have no doubt that 476 is durable , as I know other products are durable, I do recall RG 55 outlasting 476 in a test posted on this forum, ok so it costs more but your car is worth it


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## christian900se (Nov 10, 2009)

Did they really compare Gtechniq P1, a pure polish, to a list of LSPs and judged it for protection and beading?


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

I did give it a quick mention at the bottom of this page last week....

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=161419&page=6

Simoniz Orignal won it. With waxes, AIOs and generally polishes in the same test, I am still confused. Either way all that matters is we all have our own personal preferences, and know personally what we think's best.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Ben_ZS said:


> I did give it a quick mention at the bottom of this page last week....
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=161419&page=6
> 
> Simoniz Orignal won it. With waxes, AIOs and generally polishes in the same test, I am still confused. *Either way all that matters is we all have our own personal preferences,* and know personally what we think's best.


You hit the nail on the head there, I missed your post as 1)it was my birthday that day and 2) I was in Tenerife.
Not sure why so many get so 'angry' so quickly, basically the test is to see what product offers a water repellant surface after 6 weeks, doesn't really matter if it is a shampoo, glaze , QD, or wax really


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## Lloyd71 (Aug 21, 2008)

> "Check out P1 if your paint is a little tired, as detailing specialist Gtechniq claims this will safely remove light scratches. It was certainly easy to use, buffing with little effort. Early beading was no match for rivals', but it was strong at the finish."


Beading with a polish? AARRGGGH YOU BLOODY IDIOTS!


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

Simoniz won eh? Wonder how much they paid.

:thumb:


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Lloyd71 said:


> Beading with a polish? AARRGGGH YOU BLOODY IDIOTS!


Hmmm, I think you ought to try it 1st, as a polished surface will show hydrophobic qualities :thumb:


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

alan_mcc said:


> Simoniz won eh? Wonder how much they paid.
> 
> :thumb:


No need, I have some on a wing in the back garden, applied in January and still showing evidence after the most recent rain shower :thumb:
There are lots of LSP products that will stand the test of time Artemis wax seal is another good contender, so there is more choice than 476 or FK1000 (even though FK1000 claims are dusbious)


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## Lloyd71 (Aug 21, 2008)

Avanti said:


> Hmmm, I think you ought to try it 1st, as a polished surface will show hydrophobic qualities :thumb:


It's not proper beading though. Not like you get with a wax. They're comparing it to the beading from waxes!


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Lloyd71 said:


> It's not proper beading though. Not like you get with a wax. They're comparing it to the beading from waxes!


Very true, I suppose SRP is an AIO to an extent though too, the comma is not a 'pure' polish 
I'm surprised though with the amount of members there should be enough samples to learn of products true strengths :thumb:


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## chunkytfg (Feb 1, 2009)

I'd be very interested to hear Gtechniq's opinion on the test as the test makes the product out to be pretty mediocre but I would imagine at it's intended use it is a superb product and not the one they tested it as!


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## Orca (Apr 16, 2007)

Simoniz Original FTW!!! :thumb:


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Call me a tart, but I'm going to buy a tin of that Simoniz to try it out, I bet it's bloody good for £8.

Now Halfords just need to stock the Mer Wheel Wax and we'll be well away


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## Orca (Apr 16, 2007)

My only comment is READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!!! It is a wipe on ... WIPE OFF BLOOMIN' QUICKLY! Treat it like Bilt Hamber Auto Balm. That said, it saw the sides of my black car through winter without dropping a beat and I dare say it outperformed Collinite that has been on in previous years.

The scent is really nice, too ... like Dodo Juice Supernatural Pro ... that's Dodo Juice Supernatural with some solventy goodness :thumb:

It's not perfect, but it's a good wax. The tin is actually tin ... and recycled ... and it's made in Britain.

Back to the review ...


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

RussZS said:


> Call me a tart, but I'm going to buy a tin of that Simoniz to try it out, I bet it's bloody good for £8.
> 
> Now Halfords just need to stock the Mer Wheel Wax and we'll be well away


Russ, you can try some of mine :thumb:
I too want some MER wheel wax


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Avanti said:


> Russ, you can try some of mine :thumb:
> I too want some MER wheel wax


Thank you 

There's some Mer Wheel Wax on eBay... Would you like me to order you a bottle?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MER-High-Qual...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item45f2135c6c


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

RussZS said:


> Thank you
> 
> There's some Mer Wheel Wax on eBay... Would you like me to order you a bottle?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MER-High-Qual...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item45f2135c6c


Be mindful which one you go for, the forumlae has changed late 2009 (suspect farecla's doing), go for the one in the new bottle


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Ahh, I didn't realise, thanks for the heads up!

Do you know anyone who has stock of the new one? I suspect Halfords will take it now it's done well in Auto Express.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

RussZS said:


> Ahh, I didn't realise, thanks for the heads up!
> 
> Do you know anyone who has stock of the new one? I suspect Halfords will take it now it's done well in Auto Express.


I'm looking at the other motorfactors, like motormania, motorworld and A1 etc, it seems odd that they don't carry it as I could have made it in their 342 offer


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

I'll have a look in the Cannock store next time I'm over there - they have a huge range there, so may have it.


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

alan_mcc said:


> Simoniz won eh? Wonder how much they paid.
> 
> :thumb:


Whilst I accept that this comment was probably made in jest, you need to think about making statements like that in public Alan, when you're on my official DW product testing team. It just doesn't look very good having someone who is trusted with posting DW sanctioned product tests, insinuating a manufacturer gave financial incentive in a test. Can you imagine if it were the other way around and in a product test published in AE, the author said that one our review scores were gained because we'd been paid for it to do well?

As I said, I know you probably didn't mean anything by it, but with the position of being an official product reviewer on DW comes responsiblilty and you need to consider what you say on subjects like this :thumb:


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

Simoniz Original. Not seen any post saying its rubbish strange that


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

chillly said:


> Simoniz Original. Not seen any post saying its rubbish strange that


Chilly I'm going to try Product X on a silver Golf in the next 2hrs :thumb:

As for the Simoniz Original, it is long lasting but requires a panel at most before buffing off (may not be everybody's cup of tea) and is very detergent proof :thumb:


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## s2kpaul (Jul 27, 2006)

i remember in the earlier days mer polish was the biz lol was totally blown away by the lighting fire on the bonnet exercise lol tbh ive never seen the simoniz wax down halfords. The old man has some turtle wax mattalic looks good but dont last longer than a week.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

s2kpaul said:


> i remember in the earlier days mer polish was the biz lol was totally blown away by the lighting fire on the bonnet exercise lol tbh ive never seen the simoniz wax down halfords. The old man has some turtle wax mattalic looks good but dont last longer than a week.


Topped the mini today with the Simoniz , notice I used polishing cloth and not a sponge or micro fibre










and










Note to Orca, I applied a panel buffed off then once the car was completed, I buffed off again with a micro fibre, that way it was quick and easy :thumb:


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## Orca (Apr 16, 2007)

Thanks for the tip :thumb:
I'm also going to try Terry towelling - I'm finding myself using Terry more and more nowadays.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Orca said:


> Thanks for the tip :thumb:
> I'm also going to try Terry towelling - I'm finding myself using Terry more and more nowadays.


The good thing with the polishing stockinette cloth is that it is not as absorbant as sponges or microfibre so lends itself admirably to not applying too much product, this works well also of Autosmart Carnauba Gold :thumb:


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## DCE (Jan 28, 2010)

Interesting stuff.


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

I just ignore the AE threads/reviews..... usually a waste of time, but for joe bloggs, I guess they're ok.... Although it is mis-leading when having 2 different products in one test


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## SeanCorky (Feb 11, 2009)

I was looking at a valeting leaflet that got posted in our office earlier

"Polish with a good quality wax"

Yeah, i'll definitely use him?!


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

RussZS said:


> Thank you
> 
> There's some Mer Wheel Wax on eBay... Would you like me to order you a bottle?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MER-High-Qual...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item45f2135c6c





Avanti said:


> Be mindful which one you go for, the forumlae has changed late 2009 (suspect farecla's doing), go for the one in the new bottle


The MSDS data sheet is dated 09/09/2009, so as long as it was made around this time I think you'll be fine. All I can see is that it's a new lable, dosen't state anywhere it's a new formula.


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## Serious (Mar 19, 2008)

I thought the AE tester guy was a member here. Has he not learnt anything?

ps. Got some Simoniz original liquid wax for 3.99 Dead easy to use, good shine and beading and last for 4 to 6 weeks with weekly washes.


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## Orca (Apr 16, 2007)

Serious said:


> I thought the AE tester guy was a member here. Has he not learnt anything?


He moved on from that role.


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Serious said:


> I thought the AE tester guy was a member here. Has he not learnt anything?
> 
> ps. Got some Simoniz original liquid wax for 3.99 Dead easy to use, good shine and beading and last for 4 to 6 weeks with weekly washes.


We did have an AE staff writer on here, but after he moved onto something else, someone else took over and as far as I know he's also a current DW member.

As I've said a few times on this subject, I don't think it's quite as black and white as 'learning' on here and then passing that info on in AE magazine reviews/features. I've no doubt he'd love to be more technical and accurate, and possibly even run a special feature on the basics of detailing and the terminology, practices etc. but like most people, he will be working under the instructions of his bosses. As much as I'm in agreement that a publication with the readership base of AE has an obligation to inform and educate their readers, they also have to cater for a largely non specialised audience and to what they will understand. As such, I'd imagine there are guidelines which need to be adhered to and proof checks made on the writing by senior magazine editors, and he simply does not have a free rein to write what he perhaps would like to.

Detailing and all its associated terms, products and practices are second nature to most DW members, but it wasn't always that way; every single one of us, at some time in the past didn't know a polish from a wax, and it's only through either a personal interest in the subject, someone teaching us, joining up here or other detailing sites that has driven our quest for understanding. Most car owners don't share this and so whilst AE tests might seem flawed to us, to the vast majority of people they do provide a rudimentary source of info about what works and what doesn't.


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## chunkytfg (Feb 1, 2009)

Viper said:


> We did have an AE staff writer on here, but after he moved onto something else, someone else took over and as far as I know he's also a current DW member.
> 
> As I've said a few times on this subject, I don't think it's quite as black and white as 'learning' on here and then passing that info on in AE magazine reviews/features. I've no doubt he'd love to be more technical and accurate, and possibly even run a special feature on the basics of detailing and the terminology, practices etc. but like most people, he will be working under the instructions of his bosses. *As much as I'm in agreement that a publication with the readership base of AE has an obligation to inform and educate their readers, they also have to cater for a largely non specialised audience and to what they will understand. * As such, I'd imagine there are guidelines which need to be adhered to and proof checks made on the writing by senior magazine editors, and he simply does not have a free rein to write what he perhaps would like to.
> 
> Detailing and all its associated terms, products and practices are second nature to most DW members, but it wasn't always that way; every single one of us, at some time in the past didn't know a polish from a wax, and it's only through either a personal interest in the subject, someone teaching us, joining up here or other detailing sites that has driven our quest for understanding. Most car owners don't share this and so whilst AE tests might seem flawed to us, to the vast majority of people they do provide a rudimentary source of info about what works and what doesn't.


I agree completely with what you are saying but could you not argue that if they have an obligation to educate they should at least get there fact straight? Okay so they are perhaps a bit closer to the mark than they have been in the past but the test still is wrong! To suggest a product such as Gtechniqs polish(cant remember which one it was) should offer protection in the same way as a pure wax when it isnt designed to do that and then to top it all give it a mark that makes it out to be pretty average is outrageous:wall:


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

chunkytfg said:


> I agree completely with what you are saying but could you not argue that if they have an obligation to educate they should at least get there fact straight? Okay so they are perhaps a bit closer to the mark than they have been in the past but the test still is wrong! To suggest a product such as Gtechniqs polish(cant remember which one it was) should offer protection in the same way as a pure wax when it isnt designed to do that and then to top it all give it a mark that makes it out to be pretty average is outrageous:wall:


Yes I agree, I understand that their reader base is not going to be made up of detaillers but lets be honest that is like saying that a DIY magazines reader base is not made up of paint experts so we will test Ronseal against white spirit. Come on anyone can see that testing a pure polish against a pure wax is just stupid, and surely the whole point of these tests is to show joe public what is out there and what works best so part of that should be to explain what products do what. Say you want to show your readers what is the best penetrating lube on the market, you first explain the difference between a penetrating lube and regular oil and then do the test only with penetrating lubes, you would not put WD40 up against 10w40 semi synth would you??. I know some people think the AE tests get rubbished because they make boutique products look bad but that is not my issue, I couldn't care less if turtle wax is better then royale, I would care if royale was being tested as a polish against t-cut. And anyway why do people assume that the readers will not be able to understand? most of the public are smarter then is being given credit for and the only reason they confuse polish and wax is due to poor marketing over the years, AE is just helping to re inforce this when they should be trying to educate instead.


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Okay, the Gtechniq case isn't the best example and of course I fully agree that like needs to be tested with like. I suppose what I'm more concerned about is the stick the various AE staff writers get when they join up and post on here, when I'm pretty confident their hands are tied and they review what they're told to review, even if they're not comfortable with it. The frustration is more accurately directed to the magazine itself and senior editors I think.

If AE are ever going to work with DW to improve the accuracy and understanding of detailing to their readership, then their writers who join up here don't really deserve a flaming as the relationship between the two parties is going to be strained at best. I'm not saying that's happened on this particular thread, but it has on various other ones in the past.

If I am wrong and it is solely down the the actual staff writer to organise what products get reviewed together, then frankly that's a different kettle of fish altogether, and being a member on here gives so much quick and easy access to the correct information, that there's not really any excuse. I'd like to know, actually, what the real situation is.


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

Well said, I guess if it is the case that their hands are tied then its unfortunate but inevitable that they will get jumped on when they sign up as they have come here as a 'face of the company'. Whether they intended to come here and represent the company is another question but at the end of the day its much like when you work in a shop you get stick for stupid company policies imposed by management, thats just life I guess. If it was the latter and they themselves organised stupid tests then they should not be doing the tests in the first place.


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## DCE (Jan 28, 2010)

Which issue of AE was this posted in? Final week of March?


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## jamiefretwell (Jul 28, 2009)

Right...

Once again, I find myself trying to defend another writer, but I'll have a bash anyway, as it's the magazine I write for. Here goes...

First and foremost, I'd like to point out that any advertising money we receive from manufacturers is handled by a dedicated Ads team, who work on a separate floor in the office and don't have an influence on my work. We pride ourselves on our objectivity and the fact that we have to write for a large audience - DW forum members and general consumers.

What we try and do is educate and inform the general consumers to get their knowledge close to that of your own. This is done through all of the products pages. For example, I use the comment column - tech talk - to ramble on about the newest technology. The New On The Shelves articles inform everyone of new products that are available to buy, while the first tests let you guys know our opinion on the products. Meanwhile, our group tests (which seem to be the biggest bone of contention on here) are the chance for us to compare products with one aim - and the result is what we look for - if it shines your car, it shines your car. How well it does so will be rated accordingly, though I can't specify how other writers do this, only how I do...



-Mat- said:


> I just ignore the AE threads/reviews..... usually a waste of time, but for joe bloggs, I guess they're ok.... Although it is mis-leading when having 2 different products in one test


I'm sorry you feel this way, obviously I'd want our mag to be better than 'ok' but like I say, occasionally we make slip ups when trying to simplify our pages. Personally, I'm happy if we can surprise or introduce something new to the DW readers of the mag, but something tells me we'll never be able to do that when we have to cover sat-navs, hands free kits, car vacs, cleaning stuff and car tools as well... But I can live in hope...



Serious said:


> I thought the AE tester guy was a member here. Has he not learnt anything?
> ps. Got some Simoniz original liquid wax for 3.99 Dead easy to use, good shine and beading and last for 4 to 6 weeks with weekly washes.


Serious - I try and take on board every comment and criticism from DW members (even if it does mean using the DW search bar to find your feedback). Sorry if it takes a while to come through, and sorry if i'm the only one on the team to do this. Unfortunately, we can't produce 5 or 7 or 12 pages of products copy every week without a degree of help from other contributors.

Viper - Graeme (saabstudent) still works here, he just plays with big boys toys over on the road test desk now...

I hope this has answered some of your comments, and if anyone wants to let me know anything else, feel free to PM me... Likewise, if any of your companies have new products coming out soon, drop me a line, as it's useful to have a source for new products that isn't just Autoglym/Halfords...

Thanks,

Jamie

*Presses send and ducks back into military bunker to prepare for barrage of comments*

P.S.: DCE - The article in question went in 31st March, and we also tried to do an educating feature about valeting too. Not trying to do any of you out of a job - just inform the occasional car washers where they may be going wrong!


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## mitchcook (Oct 6, 2009)

Amazing Review. Top notch.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

jamiefretwell said:


> Right...
> 
> *Once again, I find myself trying to defend another writer, but I'll have a bash anyway, as it's the magazine I write for. Here goes...
> *


TBH you should not need to defend yourself or the writers of the magazine, the reality is nobody cares whether wax is wax or polish in the 'real world' had you not noticed that nobody complained when collinite won the polish review?
Probably no reader ran out to get their next mail order for 476, just as even if the mag went all anorak type and said any wax more than £20 is not worth it or anything less than (one of 3 brands) will not be durable. , you won't sell anymore magazines amongst readers here .


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## chunkytfg (Feb 1, 2009)

jamiefretwell said:


> Right...
> 
> Once again, I find myself trying to defend another writer, but I'll have a bash anyway, as it's the magazine I write for. Here goes...
> 
> ...


Whilst I appreciate you trying to defend your corner the simple fact remains the bit in bold is what you are claiming you are trying to do when infact your test shows you still dont 'get it'.

You have still managed to mix two different products into the same test and compare them against each other, when some are not designed to do what you are asking them to do.

A polish is an abrasive compound designed to remove a small amount of the surface leaving it perfect and blemish free whilst offering absolutely no protective form the elements at all(the Gtechniq product for example)

A wax/sealant is designed to offer a sacrificial layer on top of the paint to stop the paint becoming damaged by the elements. (the Colly 476 for example)

THey are both very different things for very different purposes.

We dont object to the AE tests but I feel you are misleading the public by suggesting some products are bad when infact they are good(at what they are designed to do not what you ask them to do).

I hate to ask it but do you not have researchers on the team that are there to ensure the tests are factually correct?


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## Blazebro (May 18, 2007)

Perhaps the best thing for AE to do is over the period of say 3 issues go out with say, somone like Paul Dalton and investigate how he approaches different cars. Eg week 1- bogo run of the mill car, Week 2 something a little special, Week 3 something very special.

Summers fast approaching, this is possibly in the forefront of some AE readers minds and would cirtainly fulfill the education bit.


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## Jai (Mar 16, 2010)

After reading that, it also leaves me wondering who actually tests these products? Is the tester as inept as the writer? After looking at the top 12, it seems they are more interested in price...The more expensive products are lower down the list...


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