# Scholl S20 Black or Menserna FG400



## Blackwatch

Which would you use as a general one step polish guys. The new Formula Menzerna FG400 ( Now called Heavy cut ) on a Lake Country CCS Orange pad or the Scholl Concepts S20 on a blue Spider pad.


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## Jonny_R

Depending what im polishing my usual 1 step combo is S17 on a white hex or purple scholl spider pad (polishing pads)

Found it refines down brilliantly for a 1 step polish


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## euge07

I will never use s20 again, its a good polish but a nightmare to remove IMO

I'm using Sonax 04-06 and its alot nicer to use


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## chongo

Try Essence as a one step, you can choose different pads for what you want to remove.


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## Blackwatch

chongo said:


> Try Essence as a one step, you can choose different pads for what you want to remove.


Essence? Do you have more info please? as in manufacturer so I can find a stockist?


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## graham1970

Carpro are the manufacturer, there are a few reviews on dw and plenty on t'internet. 
I contacted them last week with regards to applying a show wax over essence. Craig said that as long as essence is left to cure for at least 3hrs there should be no issue...and they have tested it with a lot of waxes.

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk


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## great gonzo

I really like S20, just didn't like the purple spider pad which was recommended with it. 


Gonz.


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## derbigofast

autosmart evo the new one now with chemical cut and much better lubricity than the origional


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## Sawel

I've used S20 on VW, Audi, Mercedes, Mini, Ford, Vauxhall, Nissan, Mazda and Citroen paint with a DA using Scholl's range of pads and have never had any issues removing S20. It's a superb one stepper IMO.

I used the DAS 6 PRO. Perhaps with the 15mm throw machines and rotaries which generate more heat it might prove to be more difficult to remove, especially on softer paints but with the DAS 6 PRO, no issues at all.


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## 350Chris

I have just spent a weekend with the FG400 (TTS thread in the showroom section) and absolutely loved it. Clean to use, easy to remove and a great working time


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## Sawel

What I also like about S20 is that it has a fair bit of bite - only slightly less than S17 so good correction can be achieved. You'll need to go over a panel more than once though if you're looking for significant swirl and scratch removal but I find this is still the case with most compounds anyway. The gloss S20 gives is excellent!


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## steelghost

Sawel said:


> I've used S20 on VW, Audi, Mercedes, Mini, Ford, Vauxhall, Nissan, Mazda and Citroen paint with a DA using Scholl's range of pads and have never had any issues removing S20. It's a superb one stepper IMO.
> 
> I used the DAS 6 PRO. Perhaps with the 15mm throw machines and rotaries which generate more heat it might prove to be more difficult to remove, especially on softer paints but with the DAS 6 PRO, no issues at all.


How much do you put on the pad to prime, and then to polish? I used it (admittedly only for one panel so far) on my black Toyota paint and found the residue really hard to get off unless I used a panel wipe. Like you using a DAS6 Pro and Scholl pads (in my case the Honey Spider and Black Waffle).

Polished Bliss suggested I might need to use a bit more polish but always interested to hear practical experiences of others.


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## Sawel

steelghost said:


> How much do you put on the pad to prime, and then to polish? I used it (admittedly only for one panel so far) on my black Toyota paint and found the residue really hard to get off unless I used a panel wipe. Like you using a DAS6 Pro and Scholl pads (in my case the Honey Spider and Black Waffle).
> 
> Polished Bliss suggested I might need to use a bit more polish but always interested to hear practical experiences of others.


What I do with the polish is similar to a post by Steampunk on this thread - http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=366658

I'd recommend using CarPro Eraser or Gyeon Prep (they're both the same thing) to help removing polishing oils as there's nothing worse than inflicting swirls into paintwork you've just polished by rubbing much more than is required.

What type of cloth do you use to remove the residue? I used cloths I bought from Polished Bliss which are specifically aimed at removing polished residue.

I'm not saying the polishing residues are super easy to remove, but I normally get it removed easily enough without using too much pressure with suitable cloths.


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## steelghost

I ended up using a short pile microfibre in combination with Bilt Hamber Cleanser Fluid which worked fine, I just couldn't get it off with a MF alone (at least not without more buffing and pressure than I was comfortable with). 

I'll re-read steampunk's post, I think I just need to experiment a bit more with different amounts of polish on the pad to see what works best. He seems to be using a lot less than PB seemed to suggest I should use


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## Sawel

steelghost said:


> I ended up using a short pile microfibre in combination with Bilt Hamber Cleanser Fluid which worked fine, I just couldn't get it off with a MF alone (at least not without more buffing and pressure than I was comfortable with).
> 
> I'll re-read steampunk's post, I think I just need to experiment a bit more with different amounts of polish on the pad to see what works best. He seems to be using a lot less than PB seemed to suggest I should use


In the post by Steampunk, he's showing a pic of the orange foam pad. I notice you're using one of the spider pads. In my experience of using these, I find myself having to use a little more polish with the spider pads. I think it's because the polish is absorbed more into the spider pads due to their design with all the slits. So, what Polished Bliss suggested does make sense.


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## dragan75

i use only shool s 20 for dark collor best thing ever made...whit burgundi spider shool pad 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## LewisChadwick7

i usually use s17+ with green hex as my one stepper yet to try s20 but with the comments above i might need to try some soon!!


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## Paul.D

Lewis 
I tried the S20 with a green pad and found it not great but knowing the schol pads are a little harder i stepped up to a orange pad and found it much better to break down the polish/compound


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## Olli

Scholl S20 + Scholl Blue Spider Pad is really a stunning combo. Very rich in glaze oil to have maximum lubricating capabilities thus keeping the temperature down of the pad.

Always works very fine on those hard paints like BMW etc.


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## Jue

Old thread I know but did you go with the scholl s20 Blackwatch ? What do you think of it ? What pad do you find best ? 

Cheers Julian


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## Carpmadjohn

Jue said:


> Old thread I know but did you go with the scholl s20 Blackwatch ? What do you think of it ? What pad do you find best ?
> 
> Cheers Julian












S20 black on a rupes green pad. 21mm throw da on speed 5 2 passes then speed 3 with very light pressure till clear. S20 can be worked for ages! Great polish

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## Blueberry

s20 every time


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## E60525d

Doesn't FG400 have much more cut and less gloss than S20 black? So technically both different type of product?


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## gibbo555

S20 Black for me also, never had the removal issues other users have mentioned, and the new easy clean formula is even better


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## E60525d

E60525d said:


> Doesn't FG400 have much more cut and less gloss than S20 black? So technically both different type of product?


Also can you apply LSP after FG400?


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## mikster

gibbo555 said:


> S20 Black for me also, never had the removal issues other users have mentioned, and the new easy clean formula is even better


Used scholl s20 with spiderpads honey on a ford fiesta - 10 today.
In the beginning it worked ok but after a while i got issues with removal of the polish...it was a real pain in the ... to remove.
Is it a user error? What speed and pressure do u guys use?
Do u need to start with higher speed and then turn down in the end?

Then tried koch chemie 8.02 heavy cut. Worked like a dream compared to scholl.


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## steelghost

mikster said:


> Used scholl s20 with spiderpads honey on a ford fiesta - 10 today.
> In the beginning it worked ok but after a while i got issues with removal of the polish...it was a real pain in the ... to remove.
> Is it a user error? What speed and pressure do u guys use?
> Do u need to start with higher speed and then turn down in the end?
> 
> Then tried koch chemie 8.02 heavy cut. Worked like a dream compared to scholl.


I found the same thing - residue really hard to get off.

I ended up using panel wipe to take it off (since you want to check your correction levels anyway).


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## Sawel

The S20 easy clean formula should provide no removal issues.


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## ctownshend

Koch Chemie 8.02 I urge you to try it, this stuff breaks the laws of physics! :argie:


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## waqasr

FG400 has alot of cut but _can_ finish down LSP ready with practice


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## dooka

S20 is a fantastic polish, what S17 should have been in my eyes. The trick to getting off the panel is to run a pass or two past clear, then it will come off the panel nicely.

I am surprised no one has mentions Megs 205, you will be amazed at what it can do, especially on a 3M yellow ..


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## E60525d

waqasr said:


> FG400 has alot of cut but _can_ finish down LSP ready with practice


I believe FG400 is the old name for Super Heavy Cut 300? If so, than I would recommend this.

I was leaning towards S20 black as a 1 step solution, but I don't think it has enough cut for hard paint when using a Das6.


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## Blackwatch

ctownshend said:


> Koch Chemie 8.02 I urge you to try it, this stuff breaks the laws of physics! :argie:


This ^^ KC is awesome...which reminds me I need to order some more.


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## X-Type_Bobstar

I've got a BMW 335d in Estoril Blue I think its called which I'm working on this weekend. I was planning to use the S20 with that, I have Scholl Burgundy and orange pads and i#ve heard very good reviews. I have used the Menz on my black Jag and was pleased with the results. I refined using Menz super finish but looking forward to using S20 as a one step. I will let you know how I get on with it. Scholl S3 XXL was brilliant, I fixed up my mates C63 AMG with that, although it needed refining after. CSP No3 finished that off a treat.


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## E60525d

X-Type_Bobstar said:


> I've got a BMW 335d in Estoril Blue I think its called which I'm working on this weekend. I was planning to use the S20 with that, I have Scholl Burgundy and orange pads and i#ve heard very good reviews. I have used the Menz on my black Jag and was pleased with the results. I refined using Menz super finish but looking forward to using S20 as a one step. I will let you know how I get on with it. Scholl S3 XXL was brilliant, I fixed up my mates C63 AMG with that, although it needed refining after. CSP No3 finished that off a treat.


Good luck! I am also debating in between S20 black and Menz SHC300 as a 1 step solution.

Was swaying towards the S20 but was told it may take longer to correct as it has less cut.


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## X-Type_Bobstar

Have just finished detailing two cars over the last 4 days. I worked on a BMW 335d in Estoril Blue, used Scholl S20 on it with a Scholl Orange polishing pad to fix light swirls and marks. Paint came up exceptionally well. Straight after I was working on a 2014 Jag XKR in Italian Racing Red. S20 with burgundy Scholl pad did a great job of removing swirls and light marks. I decided to refine it with CSP No3 Ultra Perfection polish before sealing. Results were good, I am very happy with S20. Little dust and good working time. Haven't got pics to post here but they're on my Instagram @headturners_detailing


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## Arvi

X-Type_Bobstar said:


> Have just finished detailing two cars over the last 4 days. I worked on a BMW 335d in Estoril Blue, used Scholl S20 on it with a Scholl Orange polishing pad to fix light swirls and marks. Paint came up exceptionally well. Straight after I was working on a 2014 Jag XKR in Italian Racing Red. S20 with burgundy Scholl pad did a great job of removing swirls and light marks. I decided to refine it with CSP No3 Ultra Perfection polish before sealing. Results were good, I am very happy with S20. Little dust and good working time. Haven't got pics to post here but they're on my Instagram @headturners_detailing


How many passes did you do and how much pressure did you apply?

I tried s20 on a Sapphire Black BMW on the weekend - speed 1 to spread on the Purple Pad and then 6 passes at speed 4 with a Shinemate rotary, and didn't notice any difference. Got better results with Autoglym Polish by hand !


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## Kam09

Blackwatch said:


> This ^^ KC is awesome...which reminds me I need to order some more.


Isn't KC h8 02 full of fillers?


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## chongo

Kam09 said:


> Isn't KC h8 02 full of fillers?


Nope:thumb:


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## X-Type_Bobstar

Arvi said:


> How many passes did you do and how much pressure did you apply?
> 
> I tried s20 on a Sapphire Black BMW on the weekend - speed 1 to spread on the Purple Pad and then 6 passes at speed 4 with a Shinemate rotary, and didn't notice any difference. Got better results with Autoglym Polish by hand !


Hi mate, I applied S20 on burgundy pad to the Jag using my Rupes LHR15ES at speed 3.5. About 6 passes, wipe off inspect and go again a second time at it and that was enough to remove the swirls. I needed to go three times on the lower wings and bumpers and roof but it worked well. Then I refined using CSP No3. The BMW was a bit easier, S20 on orange pad, speed 4 again 6 passes twice over and all good. That refined nicely so no need to crack out CSP No3. The good thing with S20 it worked well on Burgundy for cutting and also worked well for polishing out marks and finishing on the orange pad. As for pressure, I let the machine do the work, just guide the machine back and forth.


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## Arvi

X-Type_Bobstar said:


> Hi mate, I applied S20 on burgundy pad to the Jag using my Rupes LHR15ES at speed 3.5. About 6 passes, wipe off inspect and go again a second time at it and that was enough to remove the swirls. I needed to go three times on the lower wings and bumpers and roof but it worked well. Then I refined using CSP No3. The BMW was a bit easier, S20 on orange pad, speed 4 again 6 passes twice over and all good. That refined nicely so no need to crack out CSP No3. The good thing with S20 it worked well on Burgundy for cutting and also worked well for polishing out marks and finishing on the orange pad. As for pressure, I let the machine do the work, just guide the machine back and forth.


Thanks Mate, I was looking at Orange or Green Hex pad to see if that made a difference, or the Lake Country White pad. Now you have thrown Scholl Orange in to the mix this is even more confusing!

Cheers for the response. A friend has a LC White pad so may try that first and then take it from there.

When you say 6 passes twice over, is that 12 passes in total then?


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## X-Type_Bobstar

Yep thats right Arvi. The Scholl pads worked well, I do like Hexlogic pads too. I use CSP No3 on a white hexlogic and get great results. You'll get similar results using something like Menzerna super finish on a white hexlogic too but I don't want to go off on a tangent  Sometimes its information overload! For S20 I reckon a good cutting pad and a finish pad will do you good. Doesn't have to be Scholl branded, I had great results using S3 XXL with Hexlogic orange pads, you just gotta refine with something after.


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## Arvi

Thanks again, I do have a white and black Hex Logic pad which I forgot I had, but was hoping to do a "one step" polish but |I guess by that we are talking about one product ie Scholl 20, rather than 1 pad?. Would using say White pad for a few passes - say 6-8 and then a couple of passes with the black be a practical solution?

Kind of wish I'd just given it to a detailer now but had the machine last year and not had much chance to use it, so trying to get it buffed up before we have our baby in November!Also was thinking of if I have the equipment I am prepared for life - seemed a good idea at the time !


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## X-Type_Bobstar

Whereabouts are you Arvi? I could help out if you're near my area? I'm a part time detailer in bedfordshire. S20 would one step your car fine, it refines well. I did a BMW with a orange Scholl pad + S20 and it was great. Got a video of it on my instagram.


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## Arvi

X-Type_Bobstar said:


> Whereabouts are you Arvi? I could help out if you're near my area? I'm a part time detailer in bedfordshire. S20 would one step your car fine, it refines well. I did a BMW with a orange Scholl pad + S20 and it was great. Got a video of it on my instagram.


What a kind offer ! Thanks for offering. I'm in Warwick. Need to just get myself into gear and use my tools really!. Appreciate the advice. 👍🏽


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