# Considering a ceramic/quartz/nano/whatever else you want to call it coating



## shq (Dec 26, 2009)

Evening all. 

As some of you who own a black coloured car may know the slightest of touches will leave mark on the cars paintwork. Now I knew this was inevitable when I spent 12-14 hours giving the car a good correction with my DA polisher. I've held off actually washing the car for three months as it barely does any miles so a snow foam and rinse routine has seen me through the last few months. However after a long motorway trip I had no choice but to get the two buckets out and give it a contact wash. 

Even taking all precautions possible (snowfoamed, power washed off, then gently rinsed in prep for the actual washing cycle, two bucket method with two grit guards in each bucket with a lambs wool mitt) after the first wash I'm beginning to see faint marks to the paint. I didn't even physically dry the car as I use a DI vessel as standard procedure with an open hose final rinse which removes most of the water from the car. 

So I remember watching and reading about these coatings which last for yonks but some can be hard enough to resist light scratching. Now I'm not expecting them to resist full on blows but if I can wash my car without leaving faint marks all over then I'll be a happy chappy. 

What would you recommend for someone who has never used one before? I have access to a few panels to train up on before going "live". I will be looking to completely respray the car at some point anyway owing to some poor workmanship with spraying panels after sorting out common rust patches. So if I do balls it up it's not a major worry. Of course I'll be putting the hours in to correct the paint to the best of my abilities then giving it all good wipe down with diluted IPA before applying the coating as I understand the surface needs to be clean and smooth as possible to get a good bond. 

Any input appreciated. 

Cheers :thumb:


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## cargainz (Jul 25, 2016)

Hope this UF article helps http://www.theultimatefinish.co.uk/...e/carnauba-wax-vs-ceramic-sealant-you-decide/

I tried a mini experiment on a family members black car which is covered in minor swirls some deep enough for your finger nail to get in (we'll be looking to get rd of the car soon). The weather doesn't permit me to clay the car but I applied BH cleanser polish with a soft pad, left it to haze then buffed it off. The swirls were covered even the deep ones. I then topped it up with a cheap spray wax as I want to clean out my old stuff and buy quality stuff in. Cleanser polish has reportedly up to 3 months durability.

The point of all this? Sometimes you can't always correct out the imperfections and you might have SRP or cleanser polish sitting in your cupboard.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

I looked into Gtechniq, but didn't like the idea of having to apply two products, then came across Liquid Elements ECO shield. Saw it applied to my mates car and looked great. Just one product and provides a very durable finish with great gloss. 

Have to confess that I STILL haven't got round to applying it yet...got my new car last November!! The issue is having a garage to store it while you apply. I just never had the time when the weather was decent. So while the ceramics are great, they are very involving and require some careful planning.


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## shq (Dec 26, 2009)

cargainz said:


> Hope this UF article helps http://www.theultimatefinish.co.uk/...e/carnauba-wax-vs-ceramic-sealant-you-decide/
> 
> I tried a mini experiment on a family members black car which is covered in minor swirls some deep enough for your finger nail to get in (well be looking to get rd of the car soon). The weather doesn't permit me to clay the car but I applied BH cleanser polish with a soft pad, left it to haze then buffed it off. The swirls were covered even the deep ones. I then topped it up with a cheap spray wax as I want to clean out my old stuff and buy quality stuff in.
> 
> The point of all this? Sometimes you can't always correct out the imperfections and you might have SRP or cleanser polish sitting in your cupboard.


Coincidentally I'd just read that article. I found it informative and by the end of it I was pretty much set on a ceramic coating of some kind.

I appreciate you can't always correct paint to a perfect finish. I'd got rid of most if not all swirls and was left with the deeper random scratches, which I was happy to live with. However if I can get that sort of finish and be able to protect it with a hard coating of some coating it would make my life a lot easier.


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## cargainz (Jul 25, 2016)

Do a bit of research on whatever you want to get. With coatings etc some of them need proper curing time and there been one or two posts on here of people having water etching.


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## mrbig1 (Sep 28, 2016)

For the cold winter season, the only well known ceramic coating that I know is Carpro CQuartz UK version. It allows to be cured in cold temperature. I don't think anything is impervious to the scratching but Carpro product also has maintaining spray. Which will help you minimize the scratching or swirls to occur.
I myself, are going to use CQuartz UK soon.


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## organgrinder (Jan 20, 2008)

I have GTechniq CSL and EXO on mine. 2 products is no problem - you just need to plan your day and get it done.

However my car is 2 years old now and even in the fluorescent lights of a petrol station I can't see swirls: it is silver so not the best colour to see imperfections but I do look for them and have been very pleasantly surprised.

The CSL was only applied in April this year but the car had C1 and EXO on before that.


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## shq (Dec 26, 2009)

Any more suggestions or recommendations?

Have to say the Gtechniq CSL/Exo combo has caught my eye. Don't mind having to apply two different products as even now I use the Wolfgang deep gloss sealant which gives a car a really good shine but isn't great for general water repellency so is best used with a wax. However I'll have to do some digging to see what the scratch resistance is like. Curing shouldn't be an issue as I'll leave the car in a heated unit. 

I've just received a Carbon Collective sample box which contains their new hybrid coating. The next time I wash my car I'll probably give that a go as you can apply it through a foam lance and it's supposed to last for up to 3 months. That would tide me over into almost spring anyway at which point I'll machine polish the car and apply the coating of choice.


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## PaulinLincs (Jan 16, 2011)

I have CSL and Exov2 on my car. Forget the CSL and just use the Exo best self cleaning coating i know of. I have just started using Gyeon wet coat as a topper every 3rd wash and it plays lovely with exo and gives great gloss.


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## JoeP (May 24, 2013)

Just going with EXO V2 won't give you any scratch resistance.

I would opt for CSL and two coats of EXO. 5 years durability. Gyeon are worth a look too.


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## shq (Dec 26, 2009)

Cheers for all the responses. 

As above I'd still team Exo up with CSL to help resist any washing induced marks. Took a look at the car tonight and it's very light and fine marks which would soon disappear with a fine pad with megs 205. Annoying more than anything but alas I'll have to put up with it until the weather gets better. 

Did consider the Gyeon range, I'll probably get their rim package to do my wheels but I'm pretty much set on CSL with Exo. Even considering getting an infrared lamp to help with the curing process.


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## Moet1974 (Sep 13, 2015)

Although a little more expensive Kamikaze Myabi coat is an absolute breeze to apply for a first time coating. If you don't plan on applying one until the spring. Keep an eye on the January sales at Ultimate Finish to see if you can get it cheaper. SiRamik Sc-15 also falls into the easy category. Personally I'd go with Polishangel Cosmic v2. With this you're applying a light blue cream and have so much more visual control over the product. From the feedback I've had the resistance to marring is superb. It also gives a less sterile finish to the paint and thus has more characteristics of a nice wax!:thumb:


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## PaulinLincs (Jan 16, 2011)

Csl and exo have not stopped light marring on my car and i am meticulous in my wash regime. That's why i believe exo on its own and Gyeon wetcoat reduce the risk of marring as the Gyeon is a kind of drying aid but has similar self cleaning as the exo.if you think about it the exo sits on top of the harder CSL so the swirls are in the exo so still show up so CSL a bit pointless really.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

I am going back to normal sealant and waxes. Same as Paul above the wife's Mazda has a coating on it and whilst it's still beading etc it's still marred. 


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## bigmac3161 (Jul 24, 2013)

Yea but it's the coating that's got the maring not the paint.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

So no different to a wax or sealant. Least they are easier to apply, less toxic and don't deny you the monthly top up of product. 


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## bigmac3161 (Jul 24, 2013)

No if ur waxing u'll mar the clear coat which u'll have to start removing each time. With coating ur only removing the coating when polishing.


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

This thread gives you a lot of options and how they do http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=380063

Si3D seems to be doing extremely well for a single product. I have had a lot of experience with Cquartz which does stop marring to a certain degree. Put it on every motorbike I have as helps with the marks left by your clothing.

Saying this the next time I coat a car I will be using CSL + Exo.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

bigmac3161 said:


> No if ur waxing u'll mar the clear coat which u'll have to start removing each time. With coating ur only removing the coating when polishing.


Whhaaaaatttt??? Never marred paint when applying wax or sealants of the umpteen years of detailing you must be doing it very wrong if thats the results you are getting?

As for the statement about removing clear coat each time you machine polish again....Whhhhhaaaaaatttt?

If you machine polish a coating off how do you know when you have removed said coating and are back to the lacquer??...what a ridiculous statement to make chap, in fact if you need to correct a coated surface you are going to have to use a harsher polishing compound to remove it where as of you needed to remove a defect from a traditional coating you can normally do it with a fine finishing polish.

This is an interesting video...well worth a watch..


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## shq (Dec 26, 2009)

Moet1974 said:


> Although a little more expensive Kamikaze Myabi coat is an absolute breeze to apply for a first time coating. If you don't plan on applying one until the spring. Keep an eye on the January sales at Ultimate Finish to see if you can get it cheaper. SiRamik Sc-15 also falls into the easy category. Personally I'd go with Polishangel Cosmic v2. With this you're applying a light blue cream and have so much more visual control over the product. From the feedback I've had the resistance to marring is superb. It also gives a less sterile finish to the paint and thus has more characteristics of a nice wax!:thumb:


I'll have a look into those as well, whilst ease of use would be an advantage I've got a few scrap panels I can use as testers to perfect my technique.

As for the rest of the posts (on my phone so multiquoting is a nightmare). My number one aim is to increase resistance to light marking. Looking at the marks on my vehicle, to me it seems apparent that it's just because of how "soft" the clear coat is on the car. Add in the fact that most obvious marks had been corrected so there's an adjustment period of now seeing all these marks on what was previously a much "smoother" surface.

Admittedly I've never experienced marring/marking from applying a wax or sealant product. Unfortunately it's the wash cycle that does that. I don't mind having to use a second product to keep the hydrophobic/beading properties, as ultimately that will help with making the wash cycle safer. As I previously stated I will at some point look to get the car fully resprayed anyway so removal once the coating deteriorates isn't a massive issue in this instance.


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## Alasar (Dec 8, 2010)

shq said:


> Evening all.
> 
> So I remember watching and reading about these coatings which last for yonks but some can be hard enough to resist light scratching. Now I'm not expecting them to resist full on blows but if I can wash my car without leaving faint marks all over then I'll be a happy chappy.







here is at the middle is a clearcoat without coating. at left side - 9h ceramic coating. at the right i think -cquk.




shq said:


> What would you recommend for someone who has never used one before? I have access to a few panels to train up on before going "live". I will be looking to completely respray the car at some point anyway owing to some poor workmanship with spraying panels after sorting out common rust patches. So if I do balls it up it's not a major worry. Of course I'll be putting the hours in to correct the paint to the best of my abilities then giving it all good wipe down with diluted IPA before applying the coating as I understand the surface needs to be clean and smooth as possible to get a good bond.
> 
> Any input appreciated.
> 
> Cheers :thumb:


you need some easy to use coating. Very sad then in your area not selling Willson Body Glass Guard - best coating for beginners.


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## shq (Dec 26, 2009)

Moet1974 said:


> Although a little more expensive Kamikaze Myabi coat is an absolute breeze to apply for a first time coating. If you don't plan on applying one until the spring. Keep an eye on the January sales at Ultimate Finish to see if you can get it cheaper. SiRamik Sc-15 also falls into the easy category. Personally I'd go with Polishangel Cosmic v2. With this you're applying a light blue cream and have so much more visual control over the product. From the feedback I've had the resistance to marring is superb. It also gives a less sterile finish to the paint and thus has more characteristics of a nice wax!:thumb:





Alasar said:


> You're God damn right. - YouTube
> 
> here is at the middle is a clearcoat without coating. at left side - 9h ceramic coating. at the right i think -cquk.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much! Very helpful post. What coating is that on the left? I've seen Gtechniq CSL referred to as a 9H coating, not sure how true that is.

Wilsons is still available as an import from Japan so could be an option.

My desired result would be something like the 9H coating. I'm happy to take my time in mastering the application of such a coating. Since posting this topic I've done plenty of reading into applying coatings and how they work so I'm well aware that a poor application can be a nightmare to remedy.


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## bigmac3161 (Jul 24, 2013)

Kamikaze ism


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## bigmac3161 (Jul 24, 2013)

nick_mcuk said:


> Whhaaaaatttt??? Never marred paint when applying wax or sealants of the umpteen years of detailing you must be doing it very wrong if thats the results you are getting?
> 
> As for the statement about removing clear coat each time you machine polish again....Whhhhhaaaaaatttt?
> 
> ...


Perhaps I didn't explain myself correctly if ur wife's car has wash marring on the coating it's not on the paint. Now if u just use wax the wash marring will be on the paint wax ain't gonna stop paint marring. As for not removing clear coat when machine polishing please share how u do this as the whole point of polishing is to remove the marks in the clear coat. If u've found someway around this I'm sure everybody on here would love to know how.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

I think you should as your original post didn't read like that at all.

I never said you wouldn't remove lacquer but you are going to have to hit a SiO2 coated surface with a much more agresive compound to remove it...and then how do you know you have removed it and not removed lacquer?

In all the years I have been detaling I have to say that with Waxes and Sealants (like Zaino) I have gone a lot longer without marring to this extent. Plus all the numerous claims from the brands (note I said brands not manufacturers) about scratch resistance I can say I have conclusive evidence that they are not scratch and mar resistant as they are claimed to be.

I do however see a very good use of coatings for the wheels they deffo keep them cleaner and make them easier to clean. Also for glass too....but the body work I am going back to the tried and tested....plus I don't need to put on excessive PPE like Breathing masks to apply a wax or traditional polymer sealant


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

With coatings the 9H rating isn't 9H on the Mohs scale (talc - 0- diamond - 10) its 9H on the pencil graphite scale so not nearly as hard as people usually expect. This is something that isn't clearly explained in coating literature.


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

roscopervis said:


> With coatings the 9H rating isn't 9H on the Mohs scale (talc - 0- diamond - 10) its 9H on the pencil graphite scale so not nearly as hard as people usually expect. This is something that isn't clearly explained in coating literature.


Absolutely correct and misleads peoples into having very high expectations of what the product will withstand.

Think Gyeon MOHS is 2 on the MOHS scale...so a bit harder than talc and the same as plaster.

I do like the fact that they claim 2 layers gives you 4 on the MOHS scale...nope just a thicker layer of 2 as the surface will still only withstand what 2 can withstand


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

R0B said:


> Absolutely correct and misleads peoples into having very high expectations of what the product will withstand.
> 
> Think Gyeon MOHS is 2 on the MOHS scale...so a bit harder than talc and the same as plaster.
> 
> I do like the fact that they claim 2 layers gives you 4 on the MOHS scale...nope just a thicker layer of 2 as the surface will still only withstand what 2 can withstand


....and this folks is the absolute crux of it....Marketing fluff and spin

All these various brands of coatings are all pretty much the same, 95% of them come out of Korea and are I bet all about the same chemical consistency. (keep in mind they are all derived from industrial chemical waterproofers for concrete and buildings)

As I say I am going back to my trusty collection of Waxes and the good ole Zaino sealants. 

Coatings for the wheels from now on for me.


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## shq (Dec 26, 2009)

So looking back at what's been discussed here are my thoughts. 

Whilst I may be new to the world of coatings I'm no stranger to having to use logic and reason to critically assess evidence presented to me. I can combine this with my good understanding of the sciences. 

It wouldn't surprise me if most coatings originated from the same few manufacturers with differences to the make up of each to suit the requirements of the brands reselling them. Whilst it might be sneaky of such brands to lead consumers about the whole "hardness" of the coatings it's the actual end results which matters. 

Let's start with the hardness rating. If the coatings are a lot softer than what these companies would like us to think then surely this conflicts with the whole issue of them being hard to remove and requiring aggressive processes such as sanding or heavy cut compounds? Let's take the Gyeon mentioned above as being as hard as plaster. If that was the case then yes it wouldn't be scratch resistant by any means but then in the same respect it'd be quite easy to remove as well wouldn't it? You wouldn't have to go to town to polish it off the car. However this doesn't seem to be the case so there's more to this than simply pinning the rating on a scale be it MoHs or the pencil table (brings back memories of school!). 

I note that nick is saying he was suffering from marks to his coating even with a meticulous wash routine. Then we have the picture Alasar has posted. You can see the vast difference between the 9H coating and the clear coat, the cquk hasn't stood up so well to resisting scratches but it's still better than the clear coat alone. I can't see any normal wax or sealant offering any added protection against scratching directly other than maybe stopping dirt/contaminants from bonding to the car/making it easier for them to be removed in the pre-wash stage thus less likely to act an abrasive when washing the car. There's no doubting that the finish provided by waxes is unbeatable and the hydrophobic properties in particular really put the traditional wax/sealants in the forefront for the bodywork side of things. 

Seems like we've gone full circle here. I'm willing to be the guinea pig. I'm going to make some enquiries into a few options and see what the official responses are regarding the hardness of the coatings. Just a shame the weather is so terrible at the moment otherwise I'd make the most of my Christmas leave and get cracking with the experiment. I'll have to see if I can get hold of an infrared lamp at the right price and look at options for dry/clean/heated storage for a day or two whilst the coating cures. 

Feel free to chime in on the points above. I'm here to learn more than anything and if I've gone wrong somewhere I'd much rather someone point it out so I can better my understanding. Similarly I know from my own experience that someone out there will stumble on this thread be it now, next week or in 2 years time and they'll have the same questions so hopefully it can be of use to the community as a whole. 

Once again thanks to those who have contributed!


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## bigmac3161 (Jul 24, 2013)

Some wise words sir . I look on coatings as some extra protection but by no means scratch proof.


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## shq (Dec 26, 2009)

Gave the car a foam and rinse then applied some Carbon Collective Hybrid Coating through my foam lance. Admittedly I only bought the Carbon Collective sample pack for the lanyard but turns out it was a good move after all. Got a sample of their Oracle to play with as well. 

The Hybrid Coating so far seems like a good product. Easy to apply (through a lance or spray bottle) with instant results. I did have Wolfgang deep gloss paint sealant applied to the car about three months ago which wasn't the most hydrophobic product but I could tell water was beginning to settle on the car in little dimples so it was time to apply something else. With Hybrid applied I've got the glass like water repellency back that I normally get with a good wax. 

With the claimed 3 months durability in mind I'm going to stick to my original plan and have a go at coating the car early next year. 

These are the products I'm currently considering:
Gtechniq CSL/Exo combo
Carbon Collective Platinum Paint
Kamikaze Miyabi
Si3D
Willson glass guard body coating

I'll be looking into each one extensively with contacting the official channels to get some firm answers on a few things. I expect they'll all try to sell their product as the best for the intended use but what I'm looking for objective comparisons - if they're that confident then they shouldn't have any issues sharing the hardness ratings and specifying what scale they're using for it. 

Looking into the CSL/Exo combo (as well as some of the above which have recommended overcoat products) it does seem a bit counter intuitive to coat the car with a "hard" base then top it up with something which enhances the hydrophobic properties. It's going to be the upper layer which takes the brunt of the wear be it chemical or physical abrasion. If the top coat is similarly hard then that's not an issue but if that was the case then you wouldn't need to use two products in the first place. My issue isn't using two products, I just don't want to waste my time applying two different things if it ultimately compromises my aim of resisting washing induced marks. The undercoat will "save" the paint but I'm still going to have visible marks on the bodywork. I use the word save mindful of the fact that removal of the coating will probably require intensive polishing anyway. 

Even with the above in mind I'm still hoping there's going to be the right product out there for me. Fun times ahead.


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