# Disappointing first attempt at correction



## Dornrade (Sep 26, 2009)

Hey,
So for xmas (that old story) I got a G220 some menzerna polish and three pads of different hardness. Now i've really put in the research before putting polish to pad etc but I was hoping for better results than I got.
I started with a test area (and stayed with it) Obviously started with the lowest everything. Final finish first, soft pad. Some gloss returned to paint, but little correction. Then power finish on medium pad. I did a sorta half "slow cut" technique as shown by the legendary junkman. So now the light swirls are going but there are still significant scratches (RDS?). So, and I hoped i'd never need to, power gloss on med pad. Marred the paint work (which I understand it does then needs refining) but still noticeable scratches.
I worked the product best I could, although I didn't spin the g220 up too high, stayed around 3, 3.5. Is this the prob?
What I hate is that I got this GORGEOUS golf and proceeded to ruin the paintwork myself before seeing the famous vxrmarc threads. I'm a strong chap and I used a yellow sponge (i still have flash backs)...
I spose thread is useless without pics but my expensive camera can't focus close so I only have befores from old cam


















Plz halp


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

yeah mate. needs cranking up to speed 5 to get correction. move about an inch per second and apply moderate pressure. speed 3 wont be fast enough bud.


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

check out junkmans videos in the detailing guide section


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## Dornrade (Sep 26, 2009)

Thanks Deano, I take it that's the final word then really? The speed will remove the scratches. I'm glad it's that simple. I'd rate my technique considering it's my first time as good. I think it's just nerves then that stopped me cranking it up.
big ben, yeah i've watched them all. Trouble shooting now


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Just goes to show it's not as easy as everyone thinks.


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## CliveP (Feb 1, 2009)

Dornrade said:


> ......I take it that's the final word then really? .....


It's not quite that simple....check out DaveKG's machine polishing guides in the guides section and have a read of the pdf....

Regards,
Clive.


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

Dornrade said:


> Thanks Deano, I take it that's the final word then really? The speed will remove the scratches. I'm glad it's that simple. I'd rate my technique considering it's my first time as good. I think it's just nerves then that stopped me cranking it up.
> big ben, yeah i've watched them all. Trouble shooting now


i was the same when i started, didnt use a high speed at all... whack it up to speed 5 and see how you get on, you will be fine :thumb:


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

nothing easy about machine polishing..


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## Dornrade (Sep 26, 2009)

Yeah i've read guides and guides and watched vids. I think i've tried to absorb so much info without getting chance to practice it that i've missed key bits of info. But I think that's cleared it up for me.
I spose that does read like I was expecting mirror gloss straight away.
Thanks for replies. I'll crank it up tomorrow :thumb:


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

And don't forget that if they are too deep, wetsanding might be the only option but crank that speed up as Deano says and that should work the abrasives and get a good level of correction.


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## VixMix (May 8, 2008)

Were you using a small enough section? Did you work the polish for long enough?

Speed 3 is generally rotary type speeds, the G220 will benefit from higher speed as its an oscillating tool and needs the greater speed to work the polish.

Remember the G220 will also benefit from slow passes and will need to work the area longer. Smaller areas, therefore, will be better otherwise the polish will dry out and won't be worked fully. Passes should be very slow, work your square 4-5 times. When the polish goes clear, work it another couple of passes to be sure! 

Start at the beginning again, pad and polish wise. It's likely that your Golf has hard paint, so it will need worked and worked again to get the best out of the polish and make an impression on those RDS. Don't be afraid to spend the time with Menzerna, it has a really good long work time.

They do appear to be pretty deep scratches in there, so you may not get a perfect finish, but you should be able to make a good impression and remove more of them than you have already.

Good luck and remember - its a learning curve, you will need a few goes to get the technique right!

Let us know how you get on.



V
x


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## wedgie (Apr 5, 2008)

Although i am no expert, i would suggest keeping the pad spinning about 1 rev per sec and working in a small area.Dont try and do too much at once,maybe only tackle one panel per day?.


Take you time, as you will get better results than trying to do the full car in one day.



HTH


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## Stew (Jul 9, 2007)

Mirror Finish said:


> Just goes to show it's not as easy as everyone thinks.


There was me thinking that as soon as you did a test panel in the shed you could go pro! :lol::lol:

Practice and perseverance with a DA is required. Then you'll buy a rotary! :buffer:


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## Dornrade (Sep 26, 2009)

Thanks yeah. I think I've managed to adhere to all the main rules. Small working area, slow passes, work until clear. I am happy with my performance. I just pictured the backing plate detaching and decapitating my neighbours. I am reassured by comments here though. I need to cowboy up and set it to 6. Just rewatched the junkman vids for good measure. He is a legend.



> Then you'll buy a rotary


My dad (still uses a yellow sponge and rags that fell on the floor) has a makita. I find this hard to understand. I need to, in someway, take this from him :buffer:


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Dornrade said:


> Thanks yeah. I think I've managed to adhere to all the main rules. Small working area, slow passes, work until clear. I am happy with my performance. I just pictured the backing plate detaching and decapitating my neighbours. I am reassured by comments here though. I need to cowboy up and set it to 6. Just rewatched the junkman vids for good measure. He is a legend.
> 
> My dad (still uses a yellow sponge and rags that fell on the floor) has a makita. I find this hard to understand. I need to, in someway, take this from him :buffer:


VAG paint is super hard and is hard enough with a rotary to correct so as said crank the DA up to 5. You may need some heavier cut compund first then refine down.

Good luck you are at least on the right path. :wave:


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## spitfire (Feb 10, 2007)

Yeh up to 5 m8. Six might just be a little too fast. Remember the pressure too. As above your looking for one revolution per second. To this end it helps to mark the top of your backing plate with a marker pen.


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## gregb (Feb 1, 2009)

Mirror Finish said:


> Just goes to show it's not as easy as everyone thinks.


I disagree, it just takes a bit of patience and a bit of practice to get vast improvements.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

gregb said:


> I disagree, it just takes a bit of patience and a bit of practice to get vast improvements.


Each to their own. I'm talking perfection not vast improvements.


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## Orca (Apr 16, 2007)

Perfection aside, remember that this is this fellow's first go at correction and it really does seem to have gone badly wrong.

What this looks like is marring from badly broken down polish that has not been worked through. Perhaps there was too much polish and I think you've pressed down too hard.

On your backing plate, use a permanent marker and draw a line from the centre to the edge. You will be able to see this rotating - when you press too hard, the G220 stops altogether, but there is a point where it stops spinning and just vibrates.

I think that is one problem.

The other is not working the right amount of polish through. Start with three Smartie sized blobs on the pad and work a 1" square area. Spread on 1, do 4 passes on speed 2-3, then four passes on 4-5 and then 1-2 on 5. Then, bring the speed down gradually.

It takes time with a DA. Time and patience.

I had a number of disappointing runs with a DA, not getting the level of correction I was after on old SAABs, Volvos and VWs ... I went back to hand polishing and then bought a rotary.

I still think it is a shame so few are pushed towards a rotary when it is the same learning curve to pick up a rotary as it is to pick up a DA. This nonsense that a DA is safer since you won't burn through the paint just grates with me ... yeah, it doesn't burn through because it is such an ineffective tool for correction. That's my gripe and it will meet with some resistance from people who can get correction - yes, with a lot of time, a lot of patience and a lot of practice.

In this case, you've bought a DA and it is an expensive investment so invest the time into getting the correction you can with it. Once done, your DA will be a good tool for maintaining that finish and buffing out mild swirling when it starts to creep back in.

Try again - there's some good tips so far and you might well benefit from just sleeping on it and seeing how you go next time.

Good luck.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Orca said:


> Perfection aside, remember that this is this fellow's first go at correction and it really does seem to have gone badly wrong.
> 
> What this looks like is marring from badly broken down polish that has not been worked through. Perhaps there was too much polish and I think you've pressed down too hard.
> 
> ...


Thanks Orca.
I agree with you and personally a DA is so hard work, you need the speed and heat of the rotary to fully correct paintwork. Plus a meter to check the clar coat and I use a meter to check temperature as well.

I can't personally use a DA as it shakes too much.

Thats why us Pro's also offer one to one tuition.


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## Michael172 (Jun 9, 2007)

Mirror Finish said:


> Just goes to show it's not as easy as everyone thinks.


Well its funny because i just jumped in at the deep end and got lucky.

Could be the paint your working on, VAG paint is very hard, i spend most of my polshing time on BMW and merc paint.

Work the polish in until it goes clear, youll know when its broken down.


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## VixMix (May 8, 2008)

Orca said:


> I still think it is a shame so few are pushed towards a rotary when it is the same learning curve to pick up a rotary as it is to pick up a DA.


I agree 100% with that. I didn't mention rotary to the OP as he has purchased a DA and that is his tool of choice for now, so he may as well learn how to get the best out of it.



Mirror Finish said:


> I agree with you and personally a DA is so hard work ... I can't personally use a DA as it shakes too much.


I very quickly ditched the DA for a rotary for exactly that reason. I hated the vibration and it exacerbated my Reynaud's disorder. I found the rotary far simpler to use and as I have an Audi, much quicker too.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Michael172 said:


> Well its funny because i just jumped in at the deep end and got lucky.
> 
> Could be the paint your working on, VAG paint is very hard, i spend most of my polshing time on BMW and merc paint.
> 
> Work the polish in until it goes clear, youll know when its broken down.


Did you measure how much clear you took off and how hot the panels got????? Each to their own, you got lucky but one day you may not!!!!


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## Michael172 (Jun 9, 2007)

Mirror Finish said:


> Did you measure how much clear you took off and how hot the panels got????? Each to their own, you got lucky but one day you may not!!!!


No, im not a professional detailer, i know enough to do a car through and through, and ive done around 5 different cars. If it was some one elses i was doing for money id make sure i had a PTG.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

So OP, what happened? Have you had better results?


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## johny1 (Feb 4, 2010)

yeah, what's the update??


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2010)

-Kev- said:


> nothing easy about machine polishing..


I'd say it's pretty easy, you get the polisher, put the pad on, shove a load of polish on and then use common sense. The OP has had a few minor problems but nothing catastrophic and nothing he can't fix with another attempt. To get a very good finish requires much practice indeed, but to get a nice finish just requires a little bit of patience, trial and error, and determination, putting him down is just going to discourage him from picking the G220 up again.

I find painting my windowsill harder than machine polishing with a rotary, I say rotary because the vibrations from the G220 take the ****.

To the OP: I would possibly advise trying again with a more forgiving polish, even super resin polish, yes, it contains fillers and yes it doesn't cut much, but, it would be extremely difficult to make the paint worse than you start with, whether you spend 15 seconds on a panel or 15 minutes, it will look much better and you will love the results you get. Take this time to get the feel of the polisher, and then you can try again with the Menz if you feel fit. I too used the Menz polishes for the first time and was dissapointed and gave up for a while, sometimes it is better to start out going for small improvements and gradudually working up your expectations.


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2010)

Mirror Finish said:


> Thanks Orca.
> I agree with you and personally a DA is so hard work, you need the speed and heat of the rotary to fully correct paintwork. Plus a meter to check the clar coat and I use a meter to check temperature as well.
> 
> I can't personally use a DA as it shakes too much.
> ...


You dont need the speed and heat to fully correct paintwork, it just helps thats all.

ALso you dont want that speed and heat on certain paints and certain types of panels.

Stick with the G220, less damage caused, just takes longer.

(and the menz might be playing up in the cold damp weather)


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## gregb (Feb 1, 2009)

Mirror Finish said:


> Each to their own. I'm talking perfection not vast improvements.


I think your missing the point mate.

As a professional you obviously chase perfesction tirelessly as its your livlihood.
The OP on the other hand is just starting out and I suspect is a DIYer like many, therefore he would be over the moon with vast improvement which is relatively easy to achieve.

Once he achieves improvement he may be happy with the results or may wish to refine his tecniques to become as good as a pro. I think it would be fair to say 1 day, perhaps many years ago you were in the same positon as the OP is now and look how you've come on :thumb:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

matt1263 said:


> You dont need the speed and heat to fully correct paintwork, it just helps thats all.
> 
> ALso you dont want that speed and heat on certain paints and certain types of panels.
> 
> ...


I agree 100%.

It is not a race where you win something if you get done fast. Take your time and enjoy the learning process. I'm kinda sad that there are no more swirls in my paint. I miss the time I spent rubbing on my baby. Now I go around looking for black cars that need some love. Those are the ones I love working on the most!


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## stewartmak7 (Oct 26, 2009)

Remember if using a rotary that heat will build up , dont want to burn the paint


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