# What Wax for a Black Volvo S60, Made in 2005, With a Wee Dent in the Door.........?



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

...... that has a strong metallic flake in it, has a hundred thousand miles on it ya de ya de ya da.......???

Okay - again, perhaps I am being a little tounge in cheek here, but I am reading alot of threads (and have been for a long time) asking what specific wax will work with a specific type of car, and a specific colour... The simple truth of the matter is (in my opinion of course  ) - it really doesn't matter a jot!

I understand, in a market full of different waxes all claiming to be this that and the next thing, and even some going as far as to say they are made for specific marques, it can be easy to be led down the road that you need to choose a wax specific to your vehicle. In honesty, you really don't (with the single caveat of the matt finishes that are being launched with some cars, but these are very isolated!).

What does a wax (or sealant) actually do? I protects the paint finish, and it does this by leaving a very thin layer of a wax (or sealant) on the finish, of order tens of nanometres thick (that's pretty bloody thin!!). You will get a lot of different waxes on the market, all with subtly different blends and different little spins put on these but at the end of the day, in terms of looks, I simply cannot say that I see any difference between all the different waxes or sealants I have used _when you put the effort into the prep stages and get this correct._ Some will say that waxes "mute the flake" - if this is the case, I am yet to see the effect personally on my own cars (and I've owned cars with a tight small flake, and a looser bigger flake for comparison), probably down to the fact that although a wax is _slightly_ opaque, the layer that is left on the paint is so thin it makes absolutely rock 
all difference. Some will say that some waxes are better on light colours, others on darks and to this end, some products are even marketed as being for dark colours and for light colours - I've tried a wax for light colours on a dark paint and vice versa, and was there any tenable difference on properly prepped paint...? Nope! Nothing to see, nada, niente, not a sausage of a difference!

Ultimately, where are the differences in these waxes and sealants - well there is in terms of durability, and also the way water behaves on the product. Some last longer than others, some make water bead more tightly than others (be careful not to believe that tight beading does not mean good sheeting - beading and sheeting are the same process, the only difference is the way the water is applied to the paint!). But does the type of car, and the colour effect this? Nope. Not in the slightest!

Can a wax ever make a difference to a finish? Yes - but only if the prep work done before hand is poor, a wax may darken slightly a paint finish from the oils in it that are lightly masking very slight hazing to give a darker appearance - but this effect will be short lived. And ultimately, the difference in looks you can get from spending the time giving the car a decent polish (even by hand) will be leaps and bound beyond what a wax will offer to looks... So to me, this argument is mute: if you want the best in looks, you have to put the effort into the prep stage and then the wax is simply there to protect and it will make no tenable difference to looks then.

I understand that I am working in the real world here, and difference you can see sensibly with the human eye... there is a lot of science around to back up wild and wonderful claims about the differences different wax and sealant products can make and while some of it may be viable, it looses sight of the fact that we live in the real world, and as humans, cannot perceive tiny tiny differences of the order we would be talking about! Perhaps the science is there to help the marketing teams... perhaps it is genuine... but based on my own real world experience, I just cannot see differences between the looks of different waxes on well prepped paint so my decision is made  (personal opinion here of course!).

At the end of the day though, my only one piece of advice would be this: don't choose a wax or sealant based on looks! As they all look the same! Spend your time, your effort, and your cash on the prep work stages before the wax where you will really see the big gains in looks, and treat the wax just as a product to protect all your hard work. *It doesn't matter what car you drive, what its colour is, how old it is etc etc etc...* it doesn't matter. Prep the paint, then choose a wax to protect it: choose based on durability, which is why things like Collinite 476S and Meguiars #16 get my vote (does Colly mute the flake? Certainly not in my experience!). Choose based on value for money - another reason the above two get my vote. Names, marketing, fashions mean jack to me so the boutique brands don't float my boat unless they offer something extra which again, in my personal experience, they dont. For me, a wax is there for protection - nothing more, nothing less. :thumb:


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## Rust.Bucket (Feb 11, 2011)

So....what wax are you recommending? 
Just kidding, a good read for someone like me getting puzzled at times at the vast amounts of products out there.
Im quite happy with the result I got from my hand prep and wax, so hopefully when I get into machine polishing I'll see a huge improvement in results.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Nice one Dave and straight to the point courting controversy as usual! 

We all get hung up looking for the next big thing, myself included :lol:, and hoping we can see a difference but they are tiny as you say and it's very difficult to discern if a placebo effect takes over with the boutique products.

However, the boutique products do offer a more enjoyable detailing experience in my opinion and make our hobby that wee bit more special and fun. 

But you're right that 'it's all in the prep' and that's what makes the most difference. :thumb:

Alan W


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## [email protected] (Mar 5, 2007)

Ok so you have answered the wax question.

But im lookng for a tyre dressing, i have 4 black rubber rings on each alloy, there called tyres, they are black no flake pop, made in 2005, covered 32,XXX miles, on a Surbaru Impreza, in WR Blue that has also covered 32,XXX miles,

and made by Goodyear. no dents.

little tounge in cheek here 

*Please help i need advice in the next 15 minutes only...!!!!*


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Autobrite Detailer said:


> Ok so you have answered the wax question.
> 
> But im lookng for a tyre dressing, i have 4 black rubber rings on each alloy, there called tyres, they are black no flake pop, made in 2005, covered 32,XXX miles, on a Surbaru Impreza, in WR Blue that has also covered 32,XXX miles,
> 
> ...


Just remember to properly clean the tyres first, or your dressing will last five minutes - good APC and a brush will sort that out just fine, then whatever you have with tyre shine on the front


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## [email protected] (Mar 5, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> Just remember to properly clean the tyres first, or your dressing will last five minutes - good APC and a brush will sort that out just fine, then whatever you have with tyre shine on the front


so its all about the prep work and not the final LSP inc tyre dressing, got you... :thumb:

hope your keeping well dave.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Autobrite Detailer said:


> so its all about the prep work and not the final LSP inc tyre dressing, got you... :thumb:
> 
> hope your keeping well dave.


Rememberring that rubber and paint are two totally different substances, and their reaction to products will thus be hugely different - hence leading to matt-look and gloss-look tyre dressings, which are hugely different from leaving a thin layer of a product on top of a paint. Hence, if one were to be making a comparison between the two, it would be a poor comparison to make  :thumb:

But again as above, if you dont put the prep work in to thoroughly clean the rubber, the dressing will be "adhering" to dirt, will quickly turn brown and durability will be poor.


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## Mr Face (Jan 22, 2009)

Autobrite Detailer said:


> Ok so you have answered the wax question.
> 
> But im lookng for a tyre dressing, i have 4 black rubber rings on each alloy, there called tyres, they are black no flake pop, made in 2005, covered 32,XXX miles, on a Surbaru Impreza, in WR Blue that has also covered 32,XXX miles,
> 
> ...


32,000 miles, Jeeeeeze that is good. I got 9,000 out of my last set. Have you any tread left ?? were they always slicks :lol:


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## [email protected] (Mar 5, 2007)

Ok so you have answered the wax question and tyre dressing

But im looking for a window cleaner, i have 6 windows, 4 go up and down and 2 are static, they are clear *no flake pop* but have a green tint to them front has a tax disc in if that makes any difference, made in 2005, covered 32,XXX miles, on a Surbaru Impreza, in WR Blue.

and have this symbol







. no dents.

Sorry last one...!!

Please help i need advice in the next 10.25 minutes only...!!!!


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## [email protected] (Mar 5, 2007)

Mr Face said:


> 32,000 miles, Jeeeeeze that is good. I got 9,000 out of my last set. Have you any tread left ?? were they always slicks :lol:


im surprised at this set, they are solid rubber down to the alloy im sure...:thumb:


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## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

Cracking post Dave, good to see you back and hope you are keeping well :thumb:

Andrew


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## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

Interesting post Dave. So would you say that a glaze underneath a sealant or wax LSP makes any discernible difference to a well prepped machined paint service?


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## h13ulk (Oct 31, 2008)

yetizone said:


> Interesting post Dave. So would you say that a glaze underneath a sealant or wax LSP makes any discernible difference to a well prepped machined paint service?


surely if the surface is prepped too the best of whats achievable by machine polish, if you managed 100% correction or near too it i cant see how a glaze could possibly improve that apperance ?


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

i think people should just post a link to this thread when this gets asked :thumb:


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## geoff.mac (Oct 13, 2010)

I wasn't on dw when you used to post a lot Dave, reading your most recent post is like a breath of fresh air, It makes such a change when someone is straight and to the point instead up hyping up the lastest product, what you preach is the same in any profession I think, do your research, prep, then check the prep and them move on to final stage,
Its something I've done all my working life and I find it very odd that some people simply buy a product because its getting hyped at that time, then a month down the road its in the sales section cos it didn't do what they expected. Crazy, the same people wouldn't pay an extra £2 for example for a bottle of milk if someone decided to hype it up, milk is milk, wax is wax. period.
What is it they say, you can't polish a turd. nough said, do your prep and " graft" a bit and results will show.
Its a pleasure to read your post's Dave as I know its not going to hype a product and tell it how it is. Hats off to you fella, trouble is if someone with less post or should we say a lower standing where to say suchs things they would be shot down in flames, you say it and it all seems to make sense to the Hype brigade lol.

Sorry for the long post but I get tired of reading hype and enjoy reading real world experiences, so cheers Dave and keep them coming :thumb:


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## h13ulk (Oct 31, 2008)

couldnt agree more geoff. its all marketing buddy


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

yetizone said:


> Interesting post Dave. So would you say that a glaze underneath a sealant or wax LSP makes any discernible difference to a well prepped machined paint service?


In real world terms, you'd be very lucky to spot a difference, though a glaze is something I would consdier a prep product... A glaze on a finish not so well prepped would certainly make a difference, and perhaps on a solid black car an oily glaze like #7 may darken and wetten the look just slightly but you're into the law of diminshing returns... and the solvents of the wax would likely remove some or all of the glaze during the process of the wax application.


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

I think we all have falled into hype at one time though thats why i just stick to what i have now im happy with it.
Wax wise bilthamber finis or hydra love them both


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Great post Dave.
As you said 476, 845 and Megs #16 give great results on prepped cars.


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## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

very good read so thanks to Dave for his honest opinion :thumb:


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

I must admit Ive got some more expensive waxes in my collection but does that mean I use them more and rate them higher.No.
I use whatever wax I fancy at the time,If I want to use Mer,Ill use it.Pound shop wax,then thats what Ill put on.I do believe that the more expensive a wax is the bigger "willy waving" factor it has,"I put 4 coats of X on at £400 a pot" Well done.Granted Ive found a slightly more expensive wax can be slightly nicer to use eg ease of use or nicer smell/packaging etc,but Im just as happy with my cheap waxes as I am with my £30-40 a pot jobs.As Ive found the cheaper the wax the more you can forgive it if its hard to buff off for example.Whereas Ive found that the more expensive a wax is the bigger the dissapointment if you discover thats its crap.
A mate of mine swears by a certain brand of wheel sealant whereas I use Mer,My wheels stay just as clean and Im about £9 up,but then Mer isnt brand Y so its poo.


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## giblet (Feb 26, 2008)

Leodhasach said:


> Cracking post Dave, good to see you back and hope you are keeping well :thumb:


+1, nice to see you back on the forums



yetizone said:


> Interesting post Dave. So would you say that a glaze underneath a sealant or wax LSP makes any discernible difference to a well prepped machined paint service?


again +1, would like to see your views on this


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Fantastic post as always! I can feathers and pigeons everywhere!

Just want to say my feeling like your own with Glasur is exactly what Alan says.

It's a hobby, sometimes an expensive one at that. I know I don't get the same satisfaction using 476's compared with Celeste and Glasur, not even close.

It's never just been about the looks for me but you can imagine if you are just getting into this crazy hobby and you're blinded by so much marketing it would make your head spin. That's why these "what wax for X" threads are created.





Alan W said:


> Nice one Dave and straight to the point courting controversy as usual!
> 
> We all get hung up looking for the next big thing, myself included :lol:, and hoping we can see a difference but they are tiny as you say and it's very difficult to discern if a placebo effect takes over with the boutique products.
> 
> ...


Fantastic post, Alan and echo my thoughts to the letter.


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## donkeyboy (Feb 9, 2011)

Dave KG said:


> In real world terms, you'd be very lucky to spot a difference, though a glaze is something I would consdier a prep product... A glaze on a finish not so well prepped would certainly make a difference, and perhaps on a solid black car an oily glaze like #7 may darken and wetten the look just slightly but you're into the law of diminshing returns... and the solvents of the wax would likely remove some or all of the glaze during the process of the wax application.


I remember a long time ago you applying some #7 to my car and we all stood back and admired the results... :wave:

You are right though about the LSP, your big wax test proved this some time ago.










Craig.


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## viperfire (Apr 10, 2007)

nice to see someone with common sense on this forum who just doesn't rave on about a product because it's expensive. :thumb:


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## THE CHAMP (Aug 1, 2008)

viperfire said:


> nice to see someone with common sense on this forum who just doesn't rave on about a product because it's expensive. :thumb:


And then there are the others who can only get excited about cars with the right badge and one such brand has some of the worst factory paint ever


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## h13ulk (Oct 31, 2008)

Lol Top write up dave


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## h13ulk (Oct 31, 2008)

Infect this should be a sticky for the wax and sealants section


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## kmeleon (Jun 28, 2008)

Has Megs 26 liquid wax the same durability as Megs 16? I have a black car and I read Megs 26 is great on black and Megs 16 on light colors.


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## Luke M (Jul 1, 2013)

Daily random thread bump.


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## Rebel007 (May 7, 2013)

Having read a number of Dave's threads when I joined this site like most people I rate him highly, however I cannot fully agree with all his comments in this thread so before everyone decides to bin their glazes and different waxes let me ask you to ponder this.

From what I have read and comments other people have made Dave is an expert with both Rotary and DA polishers, that's the reason why so many of us use his threads as tutorials, however most of us (especially me) will never attain the level of competency that he has, or the expertise many professional detailers have either.

I know I have spent many hours using a rotary polisher to take as many defects as possible out of my paint BUT I also know there are still quite a lot of minor defects that I have either not seen for one reason or another or I cannot rectify.

Whilst I understand Dave is saying with proper correction and zero defects a glaze will not make any difference to the final finish of a vehicle's paintwork, nor will a wax make much difference PROVIDING the vehicle has been properly prepared and paint defects repaired.

I am not capable of doing that, for me an I suspect a lot of other DW members who are not professional detailers we do the best we can and if we don't feel confident in tackling some of the defects on the paint we will leave them rather than risk more damage or even burn through / strike through which will cost a lot of money to rectify.

For those of us in this position (and I am sorry if I am underestimating everyone else on these forums who do not have the same issues I do) that cannot obtain PERFECT results every time the use of a glaze can and does make a lot of difference, in fact using the correct glaze followed by the correct wax for my paint makes a lot of difference, I know using AF ultra glaze followed by ArteDeShine Obsidian wax I have two products that work well together and enhance my paintwork correction. 

The glaze helps hide the imperfections I have been unable to rectify fully whilst the Obsidian wax which is a hybrid gives the glaze a level of protection and durability that most other waxes cannot give therefore the finish lasts longer and looks better than using a cheap "pound shop" type of wax or in fact most other waxes I have tried (in the past couple of years I have purchased a LOT of waxes and most of them have differences that even as a relative newbie are obvious to me, whether that is ease of use, durability or just shine due to the fillers doesn't matter, they are different and many waxes have different strengths that we might need to play to, to get the best result possible.

Anyway that is my perspective, and whilst an expert might not need the help some of the products available offer; enthusiasts such as myself may find we need that little bit of help and I believe that is the marketplace a number of manufacturers are aiming for.

Not only that, lets be honest unless I am completely alone without the help some products offer our vehicles would not look as good as they currently do without these waxes, glazes etc.


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## dave-g (Nov 14, 2009)

its always the same things on here recently, at the end of the day no matter what gets said, newbies will always want to make their own choices, whats been said on this thread is no different to the hundreds of other threads on here. prep work. not really sure why people get all uptight and feel the need to keep repeating it.

Its a forum, if someone asks, you have the choice to answer or leave/ignore it. jeez.


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