# BMW Estoril Blue II paint variations



## Ennoch

Now I have asked this already on a BMW forum but only got responses from people who don't understand paint matching and variations, which isn't what I was looking for.

Essentially my car went into the main dealer bodyshop to get a new bumper and wing after an unfortunate meeting with Bambi. There have been a whole raft of issues with this place but the main thing is that they've painted it in a colour that's not right, not even close. Now they admitted this before I collected it and said they would redo it in the new year. Owing to other issues they hadn't rectified they're actually doing it this week. I had the car back for a whole hour on Friday...

Anyway, it's Estoril Blue II so both metallic and pearl and therefore not the easiest colour to match. However, not only have they not blended a single panel (bumper, wing, front door all painted), they've used a colour that is very, very wrong so even blending wouldn't fix the issue. Unfortunately the only photos I have are in the street at night but when I collected it it was getting dark and still looked wrong even in natural light, as well as under their LEDs and daylight mimicking lighting that is in one of their workshop bays. Essentially it is both several shades too dark, and the tone has too much red in it (although I'm not sure if this is in the base pigment or a tinted pearl). It doesn't help that the service manager is the king of lying to your face, even when you've already called him out on it. Their response to the paint situation is to blend the bonnet and passenger wing where it meets the bumper, but this is simply extending the problem further across the car rather than re-spraying with the correct colour.

So the question is, does anyone have access to BMW's paint system to see how many variations are listed for Estoril Blue II (B45)? Obviously this isn't the only thing, and the paint will also have faded over the last five years, but it would be useful to know what variations they're working with and what's noted against the variations. One of the company directors is now involved so I do trust that it'll get fixed eventually, but probably not by discussing things with the service manager (another example was being adamant that the broken headlight internals were simply a 'coding issue'). Having this extra ammunition to discuss with them would be most helpful.




























And before paint. I know it's darkness/LED street lighting vs daylight but you can see the lack of variation between the panels at least and thus know it's not angles that are doing it!


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## straight6hatch

Thats one of the worst paint matches ive seen. I appreciate the darkness makes it worse but maaaaaaan! 

Not wanting to take away from your frustration, I wouldn't be worrying too much about how many shades of Estoril there are. I remember from when a family members Alpine White BMW was resprayed, there were 6 variations. That aside, it sounds like youre on the right track to have it all sorted. New paint doesnt fade anywhere near as much as old paint so dont let them fob you off with that. 

Good luck dealing with the management. Im sure even Stevie Wonder could see how bad that is! If its done through insurance, you could always contact them with the info to see what they feel about it? Best of Luck!


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## Rappy

Can you take a picture of the other side?

Guessing you have a mix of plastic, alu & steel. All with give a slightly different shade.


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## Rappy

Mentioned this before on another post.

Get them to get an exact colour match from an original panel on the car, not just the paint code.

It can be done. 

PM me if you want to discuss offline


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## Ennoch

straight6hatch said:


> Thats one of the worst paint matches ive seen. I appreciate the darkness makes it worse but maaaaaaan!
> 
> Not wanting to take away from your frustration, I wouldn't be worrying too much about how many shades of Estoril there are. I remember from when a family members Alpine White BMW was resprayed, there were 6 variations. That aside, it sounds like youre on the right track to have it all sorted. New paint doesnt fade anywhere near as much as old paint so dont let them fob you off with that.
> 
> Good luck dealing with the management. Im sure even Stevie Wonder could see how bad that is! If its done through insurance, you could always contact them with the info to see what they feel about it? Best of Luck!


Yeah, it's terrible. The reason I'd like to know how many variations they are is simply so I can ask the service manager which one they used, because he is a lying bull****ter and it's people like him in the industry that led to me just working on my cars myself. Ultimately he's not in a position of power here. However, after the debacle on Friday when the only person left on the premises was the group finance director I do now have traction with more senior people so hopefully it should get resolved properly. I just like to have all the info so I can call people out on things when I know they're lying. Even better if I can do so in front of their big boss...



Rappy said:


> Can you take a picture of the other side?
> 
> Guessing you have a mix of plastic, alu & steel. All with give a slightly different shade.


The bumper always had the usual minute material difference but was far better than I've seen on many cars. The wing and bonnet are both steel so there shouldn't be any issue with that. They actually matched the new bumper to the new wing perfectly, they just used the wrong paint!



Rappy said:


> Mentioned this before on another post.
> 
> Get them to get an exact colour match from an original panel on the car, not just the paint code.
> 
> It can be done.
> 
> PM me if you want to discuss offline


That's what my answer to the problem would be, but they seem to be persisting with spraying more of the car the wrong, new colour. They said yesterday that they've done the bonnet and the leading edge of the OSF wing now to help the blend. Which simply means more of the car is going to be the wrong colour! And of course that doesn't address the mismatch to the sill or rear door!

I've not got any close ups of the sides, and no others of the repair, but these are a few full side pictures from when I picked the car up:


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## The happy goat

I’d return it because its not right! They can do spray outs of all the different shades until they find one that’s correct.

You asked for them to paint the car to the correct colour and as a BMW dealer I’d expect them to know the correct colour/shade.


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## Andyb0127

They should be using bmw white label paint system, if it's a bmw approved shop. Estoril blue can be a tricky colour, but that paint system will have, what they call mpv ( most preferred variant) so mpv one will be the most commonly used them mpv 2 would be second choice, unless there are Thorne shades which are a better match than the mpv ones. They should have a colour swatches also to put against car to see how it matches. It looks like they've used a redder shade from what ive seen in the pictures, which isn't correct match. They could also use a spectrometer if they have one it basically scans the paint and will give the closest match to it, or one even shades it to latch the colour were doing but may still need blending into adjacent panels. I would get them to show you there colour swatches or spray out cards to show you how close there match is.


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## Ennoch

The happy goat said:


> I'd return it because its not right! They can do spray outs of all the different shades until they find one that's correct.
> 
> You asked for them to paint the car to the correct colour and as a BMW dealer I'd expect them to know the correct colour/shade.


They've already got it back with them. They were originally going to sort the paint in January but as they didn't fix the headlamp I told them was broken and only discovered this when I jumped into it on Friday evening, they've currently got the car back in their workshop and are dealing with it all at once. I will say that the overall dealership has so far been great in resolving things, it's the lying printshop service manager who is really impacting their performance here. I mentioned that the brake fluid service warning had come up, and the locking wheel nut key had been damaged so they're sorting all that out and then I got a call from the service desk to say that she'd noticed the EGR recall had flagged up so she'd ordered the parts in and would get that done tomorrow too. And on Friday once I'd spoken to the FD (or rather interrupted his coffee making by sitting in their HO carpark with my hand on the horn for thirty seconds) things moved quickly and people couldn't be more helpful. Intriguingly even at this point when everyone else is being courteous and helpful in sorting out another courtesy car after closing time when they all wanted to be at home, the paintshop guy was still trying to justify his actions to me by digging himself a hole to China. I collect it for take 2 on Thursday so we'll see what the paint looks like this time. I believe both the Accident repair manager and director have both requested to check it prior to me seeing it.



Andyb0127 said:


> They should be using bmw white label paint system, if it's a bmw approved shop. Estoril blue can be a tricky colour, but that paint system will have, what they call mpv ( most preferred variant) so mpv one will be the most commonly used them mpv 2 would be second choice, unless there are Thorne shades which are a better match than the mpv ones. They should have a colour swatches also to put against car to see how it matches. It looks like they've used a redder shade from what ive seen in the pictures, which isn't correct match. They could also use a spectrometer if they have one it basically scans the paint and will give the closest match to it, or one even shades it to latch the colour were doing but may still need blending into adjacent panels. I would get them to show you there colour swatches or spray out cards to show you how close there match is.


That's interesting, is the White Label system Glasurit? What are the Thorne shades, is that another manufacturer of paint, or is it simply different formulations for problematic colours? I'm absolutely sure that no matter what colour they paint it there'll be a requirement for blending, but no amount of blending will trick the eye (or at least my eye) into seeing it as one homogenous colour in this instance, the difference between what they used and what it should be is just too stark. My impression from the service manager at the paint shop is that they've just painted the bonnet and leading edge of the drivers wing to help blend the existing colour in but I may be pleasantly surprised and they may have found a better match and repainted all they did with this, and then the additional blends, but I'll hold my breath on that until I see it. The problem is that he keeps trying to bull**** me with explanations that I know to be false, so my confidence in his ability to do anything right has completely gone.

I was about to take out a 3yr service pack through them but I made it clear to the service dept girl at the dealership who was arranging it that this would only happen if they sort the car properly this time, otherwise I'll be going to the other dealership in town. She did seem fairly disbelieving of the whole situation when I explained it to her! Hopefully there are enough of the heavies involved that things will go right this time. But being forearmed with the info in case there's still a problem is useful ammunition to have in your pocket - thanks for your knowledge on that one, it's much appreciated!


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## Andyb0127

Yes its basically glasurit 90 line, labelled up as BMW's own brand. The thorne shades are still white label but are, shades that have basically been reformulated for a better match. So for instance if there were three mpv's but there were two Thorne shades you would automatically choose the Thorne ones first. Sounds like the service manager hasn't got a clue about paintwork or colour matching, but there painter should have or advised them that this colour can be tricky to get right. I hope they manage to do it to your satisfaction this time.


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## MrPassat

Good luck with this.
I hate having any paint work done, the end result is either not quite the right shade or gloss too high/low.


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## atbalfour

Interesting video which might shed some light on the subject!


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## Ennoch

Andyb0127 said:


> Yes its basically glasurit 90 line, labelled up as BMW's own brand. The thorne shades are still white label but are, shades that have basically been reformulated for a better match. So for instance if there were three mpv's but there were two Thorne shades you would automatically choose the Thorne ones first. Sounds like the service manager hasn't got a clue about paintwork or colour matching, but there painter should have or advised them that this colour can be tricky to get right. I hope they manage to do it to your satisfaction this time.


Awesome, thanks for that. I'm going to request that the overall repair centre manager is there when I collect as I'm fed up speaking with the service manager. He's a nice guy but out of his depth and so you simply can't hold a discussion without him outright lying to you as a result. Hopefully it matches, and if it does then things won't go any further, but if not I'll certainly be raising questions on what MVP/Thorne blend they used as well as asking if they sprayed any test cards before diving in both feet first. The SM allegedly used to be a sprayer but I suspect he wasn't ever a very good one! As with everything, not everyone is created equal. I was going to collect on Thursday but it's looking like Friday now so if it doesn't match again it'll be into January as I need the car back for the Christmas period.



MrPassat said:


> Good luck with this.
> I hate having any paint work done, the end result is either not quite the right shade or gloss too high/low.


Yup! My old Vectra ST200 had some paintwork done and the prep was so poor paint started falling off the bumper very quickly. My old Octavia had a perfect silver match by the insurance approved repairer but there were sanding marks under the base coat as well as visible lumps of filler. This was acceptable according to both UK Accident Repair and the insurance co. And finally my dad's CRV was repaired by an otherwise highly regarded local bodyshop, and to be fair the match was perfect. The problem was that after two or three years the paint was covered in thousands of micro blisters. So I'm currently 4 from 4 of poor personal experiences at local bodyshops! :wall:


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## Andyb0127

atbalfour said:


> Interesting video which might shed some light on the subject!
> 
> Kelly's paint talk - Matching Pearls - YouTube


In that he's talking about three stage perls, which look the same as a normal metallic/perl but are applied totally different. With those you will do spray out cards called let down cards to colour match it.


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## SadlyDistracted

Ahh, the joys of paint/repainting :-(

I'm no painting expert, not involved in the industry but have painted epoxy, polyester and urethane 2ks, whole panels and bumpers and been very lucky with Ford Moondust silver, rather unlucky with Honda and VW metallic blues, 
happy to do the prep work and allow trusted paint shops to finish the colour.

My approach with body shops, is: 
You don't blend, you get the paint mix right on test cards before you go near the car, involve me if you have _any_ doubts. 
Where possible panels painted of car (wings, bonnets, doors, etc.). 
Also I need paint thicknesses pre repair, and ask that you aim to match them post repair (no multiple painting/blending etc as the post paint thickness will highlight this). 
Also I will be testing the colour matching using various coloured lighting.

Highlighting it is better for us to go through this on the cards rather than after you've painted anything, prevention's better than cure for us both! :buffer:Then after this, asking of not only with the hands off 'management' but also with their best painter, do you still want to paint my car?

Best to get the expectations set out in the first place

Been through such with 2 manufacturer' body shops, one being BMW, who through experience I'd trust albeit in SW midlands.


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## Ennoch

Unfortunately this place excels in not listening to customer notes and guidance, which is why I got a car back not only with paint mismatches, but also a headlamp that wasn't working despite me pointing it out multiple times, all because 'the diagnostics didn't pick it up'. I mean of course, why would you believe a customer who has driven it at night over a piece of electronics which can only tell if the electronics are functioning correctly? The paint solution of spraying test cards is the correct one but clearly they don't do it. I'm guessing that most people don't complain and just assume that it's what happens when you get a car repaired. However, most of us on here know different and that's where on balance it's probably still cheaper for them to throw the base blend onto the car and then repaint the few that lead to complaints than it is to do it the right way every single time. Hopefully it works this time but if they've simply sprayed more of the wrong colour it still isn't going to be signed off!

Allegedly they've redone it and the service manager is 'more than happy with how it's come out'. Unfortunately his word is worthless to me so we'll see what reality is when I pick it up on Friday. I'm not holding my breath on this. Nor am I holding my breath on the heater vent having been fixed which was allegedly a half closed window vent, according to the same guy who didn't diagnose the headlamp or broken headlamp mounting bracket!

Anyway, they've fitted a new headlamp and control unit at the bodyshop and then coded it today alongside bleeding the brakes, replacing the locking wheel nuts and doing the EGR recall. Of course they also did a health check which, surprise surprise, came out with £1k+ of stuff which needs doing;
- Brake discs which have corrosion on the inner edge from lack of use over the last few years (probably shouldn't have passed the MOT but hey, I'm still happy with the car). £575.
- Brake pads worn low (c5mm of pad left, so that's a lie). £275.
- Rear tyres worn to 3mm on outer edge, 2mm across the rest of the tread and marginal on the inner shoulder. 'll probably go for a full set of Eagle F1 RFT's once I take the winter tyres off next year. £275ea
- Tracking because of the inner shoulder wear. Except every staggered setup BMW I've ever seen does this, and as it's even across both rear tyres I'm not concerned. Oh, and the bodyshop has already done the tracking...£125.

It doesn't surprise me with what they've picked up, it's all actually fair stuff. But that doesn't mean they'll be doing any of the work! I'll probably go Zimmerman floating rotors on the front and then DS2500 Ferodo all round, unless I can get genuine M4 pads for a decent price.


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## SamD

Ah man this is such a shame to see this is one of my favourite colours to paint. Hopefully this gets sorted for you mate it seems like you’re at the end of your rope with them, looks like people don’t like doing spray outs these days...


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## Ennoch

SamD said:


> Ah man this is such a shame to see this is one of my favourite colours to paint. Hopefully this gets sorted for you mate it seems like you're at the end of your rope with them, looks like people don't like doing spray outs these days...


Yup, the knot in the end of the rope has been found!

Are you a pro sprayer then? I'd be interested to hear your technique for it if you are. I'm pretty convinced they don't do any tests. My mate's Audi was painted by them earlier in the year and they didn't even come close to matching the white it was, it looked grey when it came back! It's so many issues all adding up; not checking the colour with tests, not checking it when it all goes back together, and not listening to the customer. Utterly useless.


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## J306TD

Posted on here before. Excuse the clothing was home from work.

Picked the car up on the Saturday. Washed Sunday. Then noticed this on the Monday. After sales didn't care. Nor did the dealer manager. Took a call to head office to get fixed. Said we should have seen on handover which is hard on a dark Autumn afternoon.









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## Mardgee

How can anyone look at that and call it done? I guess if it was a £80 fix my car job but BMW are calling that good?


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## Ennoch

J306TD said:


> Posted on here before. Excuse the clothing was home from work.
> 
> Picked the car up on the Saturday. Washed Sunday. Then noticed this on the Monday. After sales didn't care. Nor did the dealer manager. Took a call to head office to get fixed. Said we should have seen on handover which is hard on a dark Autumn afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


That colour is eerily familiar to what they've used on my car!

The update is that I've got the car back and the colour still doesn't match, not properly at least. 70% of angles it's correct but there's still the same red hue coming through. They've painted the bonnet to help the blend but the join into the sill and the NSR door is still very visible, especially if you know it's there. The workshop and service manager deny an issue as they say they can't see it, and they say the difference I'm talking about is 'what pearls do, they change dependant on the light'. I'm guessing the hoodwinking they try to do with normal customers works, otherwise they wouldn't keep trying it with me, but I'm fed up of their lies and half truths in an attempt to get me to go away. Interestingly they say the door wasn't painted in its entirety and therefore it must be the lacquer causing the change but even if that's the case, this should be taken into account when matching the colour! It even took six times of asking for the service manager to answer my question on whether they used the base B45 or an MPV. There's an email drafted here to the director I was dealing with last week as well as the accident repair centre manager who I wanted to deal with on Friday when I collected the car but unfortunately he wasn't available, only tweedledee and his boss, tweedledum.

Oh, and check out the state they handed me the seats back in (compare to here where they were immaculate):


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## J306TD

Get that email sent. Also contact Area Manager of the group. Maybe find a reputable bodyshop who has a spectro photometer to look at the painted and un painted panels ask them for a print out and a written headed report. This will strengthen your case as it will show how off the new paint is 

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## Ennoch

J306TD said:


> Get that email sent. Also contact Area Manager of the group. Maybe find a reputable bodyshop who has a spectro photometer to look at the painted and un painted panels ask them for a print out and a written headed report. This will strengthen your case as it will show how off the new paint is


It was actually the Group FD I dealt with the other week at half five on the Friday and he was very good at resolving the main issue at that moment; namely that I didn't have a safe car to drive to the north of Scotland in. I've got his email, and I trust that he'll keep involved to see things resolved. I've also got the email of the Accident Repair Centre manager who I'm ultimately writing to, CCing the FD. I'll see what they come back with but dependant on their response I will certainly look to get the spectro photometer reading taken.

Oh, and they've buggered up the settings of the auto headlamps. Not only is the aim way too low but they have activated the city setting which spreads the beam wider and shorter below 30mph (useless on rural single track roads) and doesn't turn HBA on until you're doing at least 45mph. Again not much use when you're under that speed because of the deer risk (oh the irony).


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## J306TD

Ennoch said:


> It was actually the Group FD I dealt with the other week at half five on the Friday and he was very good at resolving the main issue at that moment; namely that I didn't have a safe car to drive to the north of Scotland in. I've got his email, and I trust that he'll keep involved to see things resolved. I've also got the email of the Accident Repair Centre manager who I'm ultimately writing to, CCing the FD. I'll see what they come back with but dependant on their response I will certainly look to get the spectro photometer reading taken.
> 
> Oh, and they've buggered up the settings of the auto headlamps. Not only is the aim way too low but they have activated the city setting which spreads the beam wider and shorter below 30mph (useless on rural single track roads) and doesn't turn HBA on until you're doing at least 45mph. Again not much use when you're under that speed because of the deer risk (oh the irony).


Maybe email the group FD on the side and ask for the MD or someone high up in customer service. These sort of people don't like to be bugged so will usually do anything to get you off their back.

I can imagine their response would be 'we've done our best looks fine to us'. But to us small minority that's not good enough as nowadays perfection is almost achievable.

Is that something in the settings you can change or is it coding? I've got the adaptive zenons and HBA on my '14 F30.

I'd have thought the car should have been put on the MOT ramp and lights adjusted by putting into a set up mode.

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## Cookies

What a nightmare for you! Sadly I've had similar experiences with body shops over the years - my wife's Extreme Blue Megane, Jupiter Red Merc A-class, white Citroen DS3, all had to be returned because the paint match was horrendous. 

I hope you get sorted. Keep us updated.

Cheers, and Merry Christmas,

Cooks

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## SamD

Cookies said:


> What a nightmare for you! Sadly I've had similar experiences with body shops over the years - my wife's Extreme Blue Megane, Jupiter Red Merc A-class, white Citroen DS3, all had to be returned because the paint match was horrendous.
> 
> I hope you get sorted. Keep us updated.
> 
> Cheers, and Merry Christmas,
> 
> Cooks
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Jupiter red! I took my c class back as the paint work was bubbling it had to have a full respray and as i handed the car over I could see 4 more lined up I think they were having issues with that colour, 6 weeks later after the repair it all came back


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## Andyblue

What a nightmare mate, hope you manage to get this sorted out :thumb:


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## Ennoch

Well a bit of an update. I met with the Accident & Repair centre director today and he straight away said it was a terrible match which was good to hear as when dealing with tweedledee and tweeledum previously it was as though I was the idiot and just being awkward. A welcome change in attitude. They're going to spray out some fresh test cards rather than using their existing ones and we'll get it into various lights and decide which one is the best match. 

It was interesting that as I was pulling one of the summer wheels out the boot which they'd covered in lacquer overspray, he was looking at it down the OS flank and said 'it really is silvery, isn't it?' which tallies with my impression of seeing it near other cars of the same colour. It's clear when I see other Estoril blue cars go past that most have this violet-ish tone to them whereas mine is almost missing it entirely. So it looks like my car is the outlier, but that doesn't excuse it leaving with the wrong shade applied to it last time, or their original attitude to resolving it. He was also able to explain their colour system and process which is a lot more than the other two guys managed - they do use Thorne's logged colours from the system. 

I'll keep things updated here with how it goes! I do have faith in them now though as the conversation I had today was far more productive than any of the previous bodyshop conversations. It was actually just a good chat about cars, mechanics and things in general tbh - he seemed a lot closer to being 'one of us' rather than a dodgy used car salesman as the other two were.


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## dholdi

Glad to hear it sounds like it will be sorted :thumb:
Years ago I had my 3.0S Capri resprayed and the first attempt was abysmal.
Fortunately they did it again but I was heartbroken when I first saw it.
What made it worse was I was away for a fortnight at the TT whilst they redid it and I didn't stop worrying all holiday.


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## Ennoch

So a further update as I nipped out to collect the colour cards the manager had had sprayed out with the system's top colour match from each of the three paint systems they use. With the cards in his hand I could easily pick out the one they'd originally sprayed my car with, it's that much of a difference. Ultimately I'm not being arsey about this with them, the guy's basically happy to do what it takes to get the paint right and this is the first physical step towards achieving that. Like I said before, he's a good guy. He's going to re-coat the wheels in ceramic too once they've got the oversprayed lacquer off the two drivers side ones from the last job. Not that it's an excuse for them but I suspect the managers breathing down the painters neck to squeeze the car in and get it re-done quickly last time probably contributed to the lacquer getting underneath the masking. Hey ho.

Anyway, here are the colour cards. Can you guess which one they used when I sat them on the re-painted bonnet?:



















In some lights they're pretty close (LED kitchen lights here):



















And the two alternatives on the car. The left hand is the Sikkens with the Dbeer on the right.



















And this is the Thorne Colour System colour they originally used, placed against the factory paint:










So basically the one they used is wildly out, the other two are much closer. The Dbeer one has a slight reddish pearl to it which I think is actually reasonably close to the original hue, and is a slightly paler/cooler blue underneath (to the eye rather than the camera it seems) whereas the Sikkens has less reddish pearl to ut and is a brighter blue. Obviously we're talking minor amounts here but it's closer to the spectrum of something like Subaru Mica Blue than Estoril if you get my drift?

I'm going to keep them for a week or so and test them out under different lights (dawn seems to create the most pronounced differences) and go from there. I'm sure there are some further tweaks that can be made to either of these Sikkens or Dbeer so I'll see whether the painter reckons this is close enough for them to fade out or if they can do some further tweaking to it to get the colours just right.

Given the front bumper is going to be fresh and blemish free I think I'll invest in some PPF for it so if anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears. If these guys applied it themselves rather than farming it out to a specialist I'd have angled for them to do it as a gesture of good will but I suspect they're not going to be paying out cash to someone on my behalf!


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## Blue Al

Good news your heading the right direction 
I would strongly suggest that you farm out the protection film to a third party 
as it will not do you or them any favours if it changes the finished appearance again (it will)

Angle for a free service (labour) as that is more likely to be in the service managers “gift” 
Than bringing in a wrapper/specialist


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## Ennoch

Blue Al said:


> Good news your heading the right direction
> I would strongly suggest that you farm out the protection film to a third party
> as it will not do you or them any favours if it changes the finished appearance again (it will)
> 
> Angle for a free service (labour) as that is more likely to be in the service managers "gift" than bringing in a wrapper/specialist


I suspect that's the route I'm going to go down, especially as I've said to the dealership that I'm not taking out the service pack with them until this is sorted to a satisfactory standard.


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## percymon

You might want to check the colour match with the car parked under a sodium (orange) street light - thy used to be brilliant for highlighting metamerism , especially on red cars. Perhaps not such an issue these days as more streetlights switch to white light


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## SamD

Everything sounds like it's going to plan! The only concern is pushing the painter to get this through i would let them know that you don't want him to rush anything!

Luckily it's not as bad this one I sorted out :lol:


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## Ennoch

SamD said:


> Everything sounds like it's going to plan! The only concern is pushing the painter to get this through i would let them know that you don't want him to rush anything!
> 
> Luckily it's not as bad this one I sorted out :lol:


Wow, that's nuts. Was that someone in your paintshop, or from somewhere else?



percymon said:


> You might want to check the colour match with the car parked under a sodium (orange) street light - thy used to be brilliant for highlighting metamerism , especially on red cars. Perhaps not such an issue these days as more streetlights switch to white light


If I can find some, they're all LED's round here now!


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## SamD

It was from another bodyshop, I’m not sure what spray out they used.


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## Ennoch

SamD said:


> It was from another bodyshop, I'm not sure what spray out they used.


Ouch, had they actually sent that out as a good job?! It looks like a totally different colour from the rest of the car, let alone a different version of the same colour.

With regard my colours I think the Sikkens appears to be the closest overall albeit I think it's still a shade too dark (the DeBeer has way too much red pearl to it to be considered, despite the more accurate blue base). Hopefully there are some other blends available which might get it closer. It's still nuts just how different the colours can be for the alleged same code!


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## SamD

Ennoch said:


> Ouch, had they actually sent that out as a good job?! It looks like a totally different colour from the rest of the car, let alone a different version of the same colour.
> 
> With regard my colours I think the Sikkens appears to be the closest overall albeit I think it's still a shade too dark (the DeBeer has way too much red pearl to it to be considered, despite the more accurate blue base). Hopefully there are some other blends available which might get it closer. It's still nuts just how different the colours can be for the alleged same code!


Don't you have a local paint supplier near you who can Spectro your paint and see what colour it's giving you? Failing that the sickens shade is definitely the closest ask them for a lighter shade sprayed out assuming they have given you the standard variant you each scheme.

Just remember if the colour is 90% accurate you won't notice if it's being blended correctly.


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## ridders66

I have a fair bit of experience dealing with bodyshops, and for the last 20 years have dealt with a local bodyshop who are authorised repairers for most of the main brands, BMW included. They are excellent, and have repainted several classic Ferraris for us. Many cars can have a number of different paint mixes for the paint code. For example, the code for the main body can be a different mix to the one for the door mirrors, and bumpers. This is because plastic bumpers have plasticisers in the paint to keep it flexible, so it changes the colour shade. But in the case of most metallic colours, it is usually the case that if, for example, a front wing is painted, the bodyshop will usually need to blow into the bonnet and front door, and then clear lacquer the next panel. The worst colour by far is silver. If you paint a front wing in silver, you have to paint the whole side as you will see the colour change. Human hands cannot replicate the spray pattern of robots in a car production line. Depending on how you spray the paint will affect how the flake lies, which in turn will affect the finished finish. 
But if they are using a very good bodyshop, then they should be able to match it, its my guess they're using a local bodyshop who does their work, very few main dealers have their own bodyshop nowadays, it simply is not cost effective.


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## Lexus-is250

ridders66 said:


> I have a fair bit of experience dealing with bodyshops, and for the last 20 years have dealt with a local bodyshop who are authorised repairers for most of the main brands, BMW included. They are excellent, and have repainted several classic Ferraris for us. Many cars can have a number of different paint mixes for the paint code. For example, the code for the main body can be a different mix to the one for the door mirrors, and bumpers. This is because plastic bumpers have plasticisers in the paint to keep it flexible, so it changes the colour shade. But in the case of most metallic colours, it is usually the case that if, for example, a front wing is painted, the bodyshop will usually need to blow into the bonnet and front door, and then clear lacquer the next panel. The worst colour by far is silver. If you paint a front wing in silver, you have to paint the whole side as you will see the colour change. Human hands cannot replicate the spray pattern of robots in a car production line. Depending on how you spray the paint will affect how the flake lies, which in turn will affect the finished finish.
> 
> But if they are using a very good bodyshop, then they should be able to match it, its my guess they're using a local bodyshop who does their work, very few main dealers have their own bodyshop nowadays, it simply is not cost effective.


Very informative answer fella.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk


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## Ennoch

ridders66 said:


> I have a fair bit of experience dealing with bodyshops, and for the last 20 years have dealt with a local bodyshop who are authorised repairers for most of the main brands, BMW included. They are excellent, and have repainted several classic Ferraris for us. Many cars can have a number of different paint mixes for the paint code. For example, the code for the main body can be a different mix to the one for the door mirrors, and bumpers. This is because plastic bumpers have plasticisers in the paint to keep it flexible, so it changes the colour shade. But in the case of most metallic colours, it is usually the case that if, for example, a front wing is painted, the bodyshop will usually need to blow into the bonnet and front door, and then clear lacquer the next panel. The worst colour by far is silver. If you paint a front wing in silver, you have to paint the whole side as you will see the colour change. Human hands cannot replicate the spray pattern of robots in a car production line. Depending on how you spray the paint will affect how the flake lies, which in turn will affect the finished finish.
> But if they are using a very good bodyshop, then they should be able to match it, its my guess they're using a local bodyshop who does their work, very few main dealers have their own bodyshop nowadays, it simply is not cost effective.


I have looked locally for someone with a spectrometer but not found any suppliers and in any case I've now spoken to enough people who suggest this is far from the goldilocks solution anyway. With regards the bodyshop they are the group wide bodyshop attached to the main dealer for a number of different brands, including Merc, Bentley, Nissan etc, so they do have all the equipment (I'm not going to name them at this point because it won't serve any benefit). They've also carried out a number of high end ground up restorations of some pretty nice machinery so I'm not doubting their ability to do the job, just the the person who Stevie Wonder'd the job the first time round and the floor manager's appalling customer attitude, lies and inability to resolve a problem properly. The single biggest issue here is that they sprayed the car straight from the system without first carrying out a check that it matched. They then compounded this (despite me telling them not to) by 'fixing' the mismatch by simply painting more of the car in the wrong colour. Now that I'm dealing with the manager of the entire accident repair division the quality of conversation is rather different, as I hope will be the outcome.

Their primary choice is BMW Colour System which is made by Glasurit (and have sub colours under that). The cards he's provided me with are both DeBeer and Sikkens but what sub-choices there are here I don't know. He does have some very good painters under him so I suspect it'll be a combination of some more test cards and then once we've decided on the closest match, the skill of the painter to blend things properly. I've dropped him an email and we'll chat again next week although the answer will probably be to have a F2F between him, myself and the painter and have a discussion about which the best option is.

I suppose the upside of all this is the couple of deep scratches in the bumper have been fixed, but the downside of their second attempt is that they will now need to redo the bumper, NSF wing, NSF door and into the NS A pillar. And, because they blended the bonnet into the OSF wing, they'll need to redo that too. That blend is however very good as I can't actually tell where it is despite knowing it's there.


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## Starbuck88

Any updates Ennoch? Hopefully good news!


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## Ennoch

We're getting there! I was away for a few weeks so it wasn't until last Friday when I picked up another sample of the DeBeer which had 1g less red in it visually this looked the same as the original base blend. I met up with them again yesterday (they're pretty close so it's easier to just nip out and have a face to face than deal with emails) and the painter had a look at it, and he agreed with me that the particle size of the Sikkens is wrong, so the DeBeer is the best start. They've found another blend on the DeBeer system which sounds like it's been blended by the manufacturer for a car like mine as it has way less red/yellow in it. So they're going to spray out a test card and see how it looks. We're getting there, if slowly. There's no doubting that my car is definitely a very different shade to standard!


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## Ennoch

Another 'we're not quite there yet' update. 

We tried the spray out which was listed as a DeBeer field shade which was the closest yet but actually still looks a little too vibrant against the base mine is. I suspect it could be made to work with a little painter technique though.

However, last week the bodyshop had a new 12 camera photo spectrometer installed (replacing the 4 camera system they didn't use as it was too unreliable). So on Friday I nipped out to check the latest spray out card and try the spectrometer out. What's interesting is that straight away it picked up a BMW factory shade that is used on Taiwanese and Chinese market cars (it's programmed for known BMW shades). So they're going to get that painted out next week and we'll sit down with the senior painter and the director once he's back from holiday and work out the route forwards.

I realised it's coming up to four months since the car was first painted, or at least it will be by the time it's sorted. This might seem ridiculous but my main view at the moment is that I want to get it done right, and as my car is clearly quite unique (which would certainly be explained by the above spectrometer discovery!) I've got no beef with the bodyshop for taking the time to explore the right options. The director is a decent guy and 'one of us' so I have complete faith that he will do what it takes and at the end of the day the car has paint on it and is perfectly drivable so it's not that urgent compared to some things in life. 

The big issue was the way dumb and dumber outright lied to me as well as ignoring my initial comments at the outset which led to the headlamp problem, and then their doubling down on the wrong paint colour by spraying more of the car in it and then denying the mismatch was an issue. But I'm dealing with the adults now so that issue is no longer there, the director and the painters all agree with my description of the issue. Interestingly one of the painters there who saw it for the first time on Friday was also looking through the colour cards and not only agreed with my view on each of the spray out cards, also said 'whoever thought that paint match was good enough?!' when looking at the original job :lol: Fingers crossed it's only going to be a few more weeks and then I'll have the car back with the proper colour on it!


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## sidewalkdances

Interested to see how you get on - I've got an Estoril 420d - I need a couple of areas touched in so this thread has scared the life out of me even though I know a touch up kit will not be noticeable in the slightest

It really is a stunning colour


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## Ennoch

I suspect you won't need to worry - they showed me the number of times that their base colour system blend for EBII has been used and it's basically the right shade. I do believe them when they say they've never had an issue with matching it before, and if my shell was indeed destined for a different market then that would explain it. Certainly, when I park anywhere near any other EBII car mine looks starkly different. If yours has a noticeable reddish/purple pearl to it in low light then I'm pretty convinced you're going to be totally okay, or at least as okay as touch up paint in small bottles ever is!


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## Ennoch

Next up...we have some more colours. One was the listed DeBere field shade that is pretty close to the money but there's just something about it that isn't quite right, but I suspect if it was used and blended well it would be close enough not to be noticeable. We then have two shades created using the camera output from the other week, one using Glasurit paint and the other Spies. I think either of these two are also pretty close in terms of blending. If you look super close there's a difference with the Spies appearing slightly brighter and the Glasurit slightly paler. Either way the red pearl level is bang on the money and this is the jarring element to me. So I just need to decide which I think is closer. I can't fault what the guys are doing to get this sorted for me given my car's rather unique status. One thing the printshop manager mentioned as a possibility was just redoing both sides in their entirety with the Thorne shade if I still felt these new options weren't close enough. As it is I think we're in the ballpark now of where it needs to be, and they're going to blend into the rear door as well as fixing a small dent on the lower arch/door shut line when we come to getting the car in. They're going to get a warranty issue sorted and a service done too so like I said, I can't fault them with the way they've gone about resolving things now, and what they're offering to do to make sure I get a finish I'm happy with. I think with the colour even if the Thorne full repaint was the better option I much prefer my original colour as the red pearl really doesn't do it for me. But bugger me it's been a PITA to match! I'll decide later whether to name the bodyshop or not. My view is that it isn't so much that things go wrong but what you do to fix that. Currently the latter point has been pretty exemplary, or at least it has been to my eyes.

So onto some pictures...

First up we have the DeBere field shade with less red against original D pillar;









Spies camera shade against original D pillar:









Glasurit camera shade against original D pillar:









Rear quarter Glasurit:









And all lined up together on the bonnet (repainted in the Thorne std shade):


















And lined up in the same order on the roof (original colour):


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## Rappy

From the above, DeBere looks the closest to me.

One thing I have not seen is all under lighting & the paintshop showing you which is the best colour match & why.

They should be guiding you, not the other way round.


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## Ennoch

Rappy said:


> From the above, DeBere looks the closest to me.
> 
> One thing I have not seen is all under lighting & the paintshop showing you which is the best colour match & why.
> 
> They should be guiding you, not the other way round.


Ironically it's not bodyshop lighting that highlights the problem but dawn/dusk. In this light it's really pronounced whereas under brighter lights even the red pearl isn't super obvious unless you're specifically looking for it.

In terms of them guiding me, I see where you're coming from - ultimately the differences now are so slight between the three colours that they're all going to be perfectly bendable. On Friday three painters came up with three answers as to which they would prefer to paint... In person, the Glasurit mix looks closest as the Spiers comes out too bright. However, on the pictures the Spiers looks closer! I would agree with you on Debere in the main, but under some lighting it just looks wrong for some reason, albeit still way closer than what's on the car at the moment. Something in the mix is just picking up certain light slightly differently so that the colour looks almost milky on the test car.


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## J306TD

Ennoch said:


> Ironically it's not bodyshop lighting that highlights the problem but dawn/dusk. In this light it's really pronounced whereas under brighter lights even the red pearl isn't super obvious unless you're specifically looking for it.
> 
> In terms of them guiding me, I see where you're coming from - ultimately the differences now are so slight between the three colours that they're all going to be perfectly bendable. On Friday three painters came up with three answers as to which they would prefer to paint... In person, the Glasurit mix looks closest as the Spiers comes out too bright. However, on the pictures the Spiers looks closer! I would agree with you on Debere in the main, but under some lighting it just looks wrong for some reason, albeit still way closer than what's on the car at the moment. Something in the mix is just picking up certain light slightly differently so that the colour looks almost milky on the test car.


I'm going to throw this out there. But could the bodyshop try a blend of 2 or 3 paints to get a better match?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## Ennoch

It's a nice idea in theory but I wouldn't go mixing different paint systems as they all do things differently and have different chemicals in them as their base. Debere is particularly unique in that regard apparently. 

The more I look at the samples the more I come back to the Glasurit camera shade. The metallic particle colour and size is spot on, and the shade very, very close (if you hide the join the difference is completely imperceptible). Given the blend they managed into the driver's wing with the Thorne shade (for which the spray out doesn't come close to the original paint) is undetectable I have some confidence that this match is going to be absolutely fine. The red pearl in low lights which was the main issue with the original job is also a very good match. Interestingly this is where the Debere really doesn't work and actually looks even more purple than the Thorne shade, despite in all other lights looking absolutely spot on.


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## SamD

Little tip cut some card board and colour it black cut 2 squares out just a little smaller than the spray out cards a couple of inches apart from each other.

Place one of your spray outs behind the left window you have made and put it against your car and have a go checking the spray outs thst way against your car i personally use this method myself.


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## Ennoch

Interestingly, using that method the Spiers card matches closest!


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## Ennoch

Woohoo, I have a date for it going in for the last time for the first time! Their chief painter is going to be doing it, and the Spies is the colour we're going with. It'll be nice to have it back in the correct colour as I much prefer my original shade over the normal EBII! They're also going to sort the knock at the front while they have it, and arrange for the service to be done FOC once it's due in a few k miles which I'm more than happy with as an apology given a) my paint seems to be a ******* and b) nobody has died and aside from a few short journeys out to the bodyshop it's not been a major inconvenience (albeit them originally handing the interior back looking black was pretty crap).


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## Andyblue

That is good news and good on them for persevering to sort this out... :thumb:

Looking forward to seeing the finished car :thumb:


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## Rappy

Finally at last!! 

Look forward to seeing the new pics. You can go back to enjoying your car & detailing it :thumb::thumb:


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## Ennoch

Andyblue said:


> That is good news and good on them for persevering to sort this out... :thumb:
> 
> Looking forward to seeing the finished car :thumb:


You and me both! I actually can't fault the way their director has gone about dealing with this for me, so credit to them for stepping up and working out what the issue was. Sure, it's taken six months but I've been in no rush and was happier getting to the point where we agreed on the colour and then could get their best painter on it (who does the £100k+ Pagoda restorations etc).



Rappy said:


> Finally at last!!
> 
> Look forward to seeing the new pics. You can go back to enjoying your car & detailing it :thumb::thumb:


Yup! They're going to have it for 8 or 9 days to get everything done with no rush, and get the knocking sorted too, so hopefully in a few weeks I'll get it back and then can deal with sorting all the paint and trim out. Strangely though even seeing the mismatch hasn't really bothered me much since knowing it would be sorted so it hasn't actually been a detriment to me enjoying waxing it and keeping it looking good.

I'll also not have to deal with a Micro courtesy car this time as they're sorting me out with something proper. No idea what, but it'll be an estate of some sort.


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## lincolndanny

Any updates with this at all?


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## Ennoch

lincolndanny said:


> Any updates with this at all?


I dropped it off yesterday so we'll soon see...maybe. I suspect it'll be after next weekend given they're doing a few warranty bits and fixing some other paintwork gratis too (I seriously can't complain with how they're dealing with this now!).


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## Rappy

Ennoch said:


> I dropped it off yesterday so we'll soon see...maybe. I suspect it'll be after next weekend given they're doing a few warranty bits and fixing some other paintwork gratis too (I seriously can't complain with how they're dealing with this now!).


Fantastic news :thumb:


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## Andyblue

Ennoch said:


> I dropped it off yesterday so we'll soon see...maybe. I suspect it'll be after next weekend given they're doing a few warranty bits and fixing some other paintwork gratis too (I seriously can't complain with how they're dealing with this now!).


Fingers crossed that it comes back perfect for you :thumb:


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## Ennoch

Andyblue said:


> Fingers crossed that it comes back perfect for you :thumb:


Fingers, toes and balls are all crossed at this point but I've got the guy painting it who did the second job where they blended it across the bonnet and into the OSF wing, and on that panel it was impossible to tell where it was blended to. Under different lights you could see there was the same pearl issue but it was an impressive blend given how different the colours were (apparently he questioned the foreman why he wasn't also doing the blend on the drivers side but was told to keep his nose out!). I think with the colour we've chosen and his skill it should come out pretty bloody good, hopefully!


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## Ennoch

She's back!! Picked her up this evening and the paintwork is looking superb, and even better it all matches. I'll get the leftover compound cleaned up after the weekend, and just do a general tidy up to detailer rather than painter standard and get some photos but suffice to say that after four weeks I'm rather glad to have Hermann ze German back on the drive. Even better for having ditched the Bridgestone RFT's in exchange for Michelin PS4S's and having a fresh set of dampers up front courtesy of the warranty. Winning. Looking forward to getting some miles on her (yes, a female Hermann) over the next week given I put 1500 miles on the courtesty Quashqia in the four weeks I had it!


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## AndyQash

Well done on finally getting the right result.

Jesus...1500 miles in 4 weeks, my Qashqai has only done 4600 miles in 2 years.


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## Andyblue

That’s good news :thumb:


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## M3_Crazy_Dude

Can any of you knowledgable folk help with this?

https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=426872


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## Ennoch

AndyQash said:


> Well done on finally getting the right result.
> 
> Jesus...1500 miles in 4 weeks, my Qashqai has only done 4600 miles in 2 years.


Wow! I got this BM last August and even with the winter lockdown etc when I'd normally be out climbing and skiing every weekend I've still done 6k miles in that time.

With the Quashqai I've had climbing/hill/running trips every weekend and several mid week ones each week too so the miles definitely add up.



Andyblue said:


> That's good news :thumb:


Indeed, it's nice to be back in my own car! I'll get some pics etc up in the main thread for it at some point when I get a chance



M3_Crazy_Dude said:


> Can any of you knowledgable folk help with this?
> 
> https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=426872


Looks like the wrong shade totally. Was this an off the shelf can, or blended specifically? 
ETA: Actually, just spotted you did it on cardboard. Did you primer etc first and then lacquer after? I've used card before and it does strange things to colour if it's absorbing some of the pigment. If I don't have the proper cards to hand I tend to take some plastic packaging, primer in the apprpriate colour (blacking it from behind too) and then go with colour on that. Maybe wait until you've got the cards before deciding for sure but it does still look pretty light. Also, did you use the right colour primer? On things like red that makes a huge difference to the overall tone.


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## Rappy

Fantastic news :thumb::thumb:

Sounds like they finally got it right.

Post some pics please


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## M3_Crazy_Dude

Ennoch said:


> Looks like the wrong shade totally. Was this an off the shelf can, or blended specifically?
> ETA: Actually, just spotted you did it on cardboard. Did you primer etc first and then lacquer after? I've used card before and it does strange things to colour if it's absorbing some of the pigment. If I don't have the proper cards to hand I tend to take some plastic packaging, primer in the apprpriate colour (blacking it from behind too) and then go with colour on that. Maybe wait until you've got the cards before deciding for sure but it does still look pretty light. Also, did you use the right colour primer? On things like red that makes a huge difference to the overall tone.


Thank you for taking the time to respond - I've emailed the company to see what they have to say. I used grey primer but haven't yet lacquered - will try that now.

Cars are great until things go wrong - glad to see your one is completely sorted


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## Ennoch

Rappy said:


> Fantastic news :thumb::thumb:
> 
> Sounds like they finally got it right.
> 
> Post some pics please


Will do, only got it last night and took a few pics for myself in the local carpark but I'll get some proper ones this weekend although no doubt it'll need a clean by then!



M3_Crazy_Dude said:


> Thank you for taking the time to respond - I've emailed the company to see what they have to say. I used grey primer but haven't yet lacquered - will try that now.
> 
> Cars are great until things go wrong - glad to see your one is completely sorted


Very true.

No problem at all. With regard the paint you can get some fairly significant variations (Vauxhall Star Silver used to have a ridiculous number of factory versions) so it could be that. Who was it that you got it from? If you're willing to remove something like a mirror cap most of the companies are willing to scan it in and get the right match. As an example I've found the closest for my Impreza in 22G is Maserati Rosso Corsa (I forget the version number) without any of the xyrallic additives mixed in - it was Paints4U who scanned that for me, predominantly because the paint has changed in the 18 years since it was manufactured. The standard blend, even from Subaru, is way too dark.

I'd maybe throw another layer of paint down and then go for the lacquer. That might give a truer reflection of the colour if the previous base coat has basically clogged up the pores of the card you used. Is it definitely grey lacquer? I know some of the BMW dark blues (and even Subaru Mica Blue) tend to use black primer as a base rather than grey or white.


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## dholdi

Ennoch said:


> She's back!! Picked her up this evening and the paintwork is looking superb, and even better it all matches. I'll get the leftover compound cleaned up after the weekend, and just do a general tidy up to detailer rather than painter standard and get some photos but suffice to say that after four weeks I'm rather glad to have Hermann ze German back on the drive. Even better for having ditched the Bridgestone RFT's in exchange for Michelin PS4S's and having a fresh set of dampers up front courtesy of the warranty. Winning. Looking forward to getting some miles on her (yes, a female Hermann) over the next week given I put 1500 miles on the courtesty Quashqia in the four weeks I had it!


Glad to hear you have her back and more importantly you are happy with the work.
Look forward to seeing the pics.
Out of interest tell me more about the tyres and dampers.
Have you gone for the PS4s in rft or, as I know you live out in the sticks, got a spare ?
I cant remember without looking back if you have adaptive suspension.
I do and have noticed squeaks recently when going over bumps etc and wondered what your symptoms were ?
I'm still in warranty so would look to pursue this.


----------



## Ennoch

dholdi said:


> Glad to hear you have her back and more importantly you are happy with the work.
> Look forward to seeing the pics.
> Out of interest tell me more about the tyres and dampers.
> Have you gone for the PS4s in rft or, as I know you live out in the sticks, got a spare ?
> I cant remember without looking back if you have adaptive suspension.
> I do and have noticed squeaks recently when going over bumps etc and wondered what your symptoms were ?
> I'm still in warranty so would look to pursue this.


I actually live in the city but spend most of my free time out in the wilds. I wasn't willing to compromise on not having RFTs in winter given the risk of hidden/submerged/buried pot holes down untreated single track roads at 4am with no phone reception, but in summer I was a bit more willing to compromise to ended up with non RFT Michelin PS4S (not the PS4 or the PS4* which isn't available until July). I'm blown away by the contrast to the old S001's. The fronts were relatively recent (albeit date coded 2017) while the rears were the original and thus date coded June 2014! One of the rears was so stubbornly attached to the rim it broke the tyre machine and they resorted to cutting it off. The rubber on them felt like plastic whereas the michelins are much more akin to a normal performance tyre. The PS4S are a little more floaty than the S001's as the sidewall is so much softer but at the same time this improves ride and traction on the rougher road surfaces. Where before on damp roads felt like the car was gliding over the surface, even new this Michelins feel properly keyed into the surface. Better ride, less road noise and much better cornering. You actually get proper feel to the steering which means you can push on and trust the tyres thanks to decent feedback and loading. The downside is that it's shown the brakes to definitely need some improvement. New pads incoming I reckon!

As to the suspension, yes, I have the adaptive stuff. I had a slight knock coming from the front, like a drop link or top mount that was beginning to fail. Not super intrusive but on bobbly road surfaces it was noticeable enough. They couldn't find anything until a road test and a shaker plate at which point they reckoned it was the adaptive valves in at least one of the struts having failed, particularly as it was much more noticeable in sport mode. I don't think the NSF one was faulty but credit to them they replaced both (at 38k miles, 6 years old) and the knock has gone completely. I think initially they were thinking it was the rack but the VSS rack seems to have less issues than the normal one in that regard. If it's under a BMW warranty I'd take it in and get them to look at it, they'll probably be pretty keen to find the fault seeing as they get paid well to do the work! If yours are squeaks then that sounds more like dry bushes on the ARB or drop links but I might be wrong, it's been known to happen from time to time


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## Walesy.

Christ...I have just read all this over 2 coffee's. 

Sounds like a disastrous start but a great ending buddy, I would be interested to know what dealer this was (PM) as I know of someone who is just about to put their car into a dealer network, for bodywork in the Glasgow area. 

Anyway, this also sounds very familiar. I had a vectra SRI and it was damaged by a motorcyclist. Watsons of Airdrie paint the car 6 times...ended up we came to an agreement to replace the car with a new 'super discounted' deal. Honestly I feel for you on this one, as my blood pressure was through the roof with it all. 

Looking forward to seeing the finished pictures bud!!


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## Ennoch

Walesy. said:


> Christ...I have just read all this over 2 coffee's.
> 
> Sounds like a disastrous start but a great ending buddy, I would be interested to know what dealer this was (PM) as I know of someone who is just about to put their car into a dealer network, for bodywork in the Glasgow area.
> 
> Anyway, this also sounds very familiar. I had a vectra SRI and it was damaged by a motorcyclist. Watsons of Airdrie paint the car 6 times...ended up we came to an agreement to replace the car with a new 'super discounted' deal. Honestly I feel for you on this one, as my blood pressure was through the roof with it all.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing the finished pictures bud!!


Wow, that's some perseverance in reading through it! Sounds like you had a terrible experience with the Vectra, thankfully this one didn't go quite so far down the wrong road. I suspect that the way I've dealt with it may have been different a year ago, but life teaches you things and you learn to get less angry about stuff. At least when people take responsibility for things (which they did, once I stopped speaking to the floor managers and dealt with the big boys).

The big problem is that my car is not the colour it should be, and while there was an initial problem with the paint and the floor managers not agreeing that it was a problem, I simply can't fault how they've subsequently gone on to resolve it (I tend to go with how problems are resolved rather than whether they occurred in the first place, everyone has an off day occasionally). Yes. it's taken time but with lockdowns etc I've simply not been in a rush to get it fixed as quickly as possible and instead preferred to get the colour right, hence a huge number of spray out cards! They were saying that they've never had an EBII car where the Thorne shade doesn't match perfectly (or at least to blendable levels) and I have to say that on the basis of all the other EBII cars I see on the road, I believe them.

Anyway, I've got a car back that has a very good paint job on it, in the right colour, and with a few other bits and pieces to make up for the issue. If your mate's in Glasgow he won't come across these guys but even so, I'd happily recommend them as I've seen enough of their paint jobs in recent months to know that mine was the odd one out - put it this way, I gave the painter (this time round) and the director a very decent bottle of wine each as thanks for sorting it out.

I'll give the car a clean and take some pics, it's now had 500 miles on it and several rain storms so its safe to say it's not as shiny as it was and the wheels are rather blacker!


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## Walesy.

Ennoch said:


> Wow, that's some perseverance in reading through it! Sounds like you had a terrible experience with the Vectra, thankfully this one didn't go quite so far down the wrong road. I suspect that the way I've dealt with it may have been different a year ago, but life teaches you things and you learn to get less angry about stuff. At least when people take responsibility for things (which they did, once I stopped speaking to the floor managers and dealt with the big boys).
> 
> The big problem is that my car is not the colour it should be, and while there was an initial problem with the paint and the floor managers not agreeing that it was a problem, I simply can't fault how they've subsequently gone on to resolve it (I tend to go with how problems are resolved rather than whether they occurred in the first place, everyone has an off day occasionally). Yes. it's taken time but with lockdowns etc I've simply not been in a rush to get it fixed as quickly as possible and instead preferred to get the colour right, hence a huge number of spray out cards! They were saying that they've never had an EBII car where the Thorne shade doesn't match perfectly (or at least to blendable levels) and I have to say that on the basis of all the other EBII cars I see on the road, I believe them.
> 
> Anyway, I've got a car back that has a very good paint job on it, in the right colour, and with a few other bits and pieces to make up for the issue. If your mate's in Glasgow he won't come across these guys but even so, I'd happily recommend them as I've seen enough of their paint jobs in recent months to know that mine was the odd one out - put it this way, I gave the painter (this time round) and the director a very decent bottle of wine each as thanks for sorting it out.
> 
> I'll give the car a clean and take some pics, it's now had 500 miles on it and several rain storms so its safe to say it's not as shiny as it was and the wheels are rather blacker!


I prefer these threads with a happy outcome, rather than 'what wax for a red micra' type LOL.

The vectra issues was horrendous mate, 
. Received it back 1st time: Grey and flat, all rubbers painted silver too.
. 2nd time, all rubbers cleaned but they missed a bit under the wingmirror that over lapped the wing. So it was filled with almost like a stick black plastic.
3rd time; Paint was barley on the panel and could see the undercoat
4th time, the wing had bubbles in it
5th time, better job..but the afore-mentioned bubbled came back
6th time, paint was incredibly thick and just wasn't finished correctly,

New car afterwards as they ruined it. Honestly, I was hoping for an outcome like yours but I had to seek advice and get insurance approved surveys done to state that car was abysmal.

I was young at the time, probably hot headed too, so was surprised I kept my cool with it all. The garage shut down afterwards as it was getting a really bad name and losing business ALOT.

I used a body shop local to me, like bottom of road and those guys have a real eye for detail, he knows I am a fussy bugger LOL...so I like that! School friend too, so that all helps. So I know I am in good hands.

Its to be nice today, so get yer gear out! :lol:


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## Ennoch

Ouch, that sounds like cowboys more than a simple issue of the paint match not being quite right! It's good you managed to find a decent place to get work done now.

Nice weather at weekends is for having fun in the hills rather than washing cars in the cities, I'm too busy enjoying driving it at the moment than to bother cleaning it!  Pictures will definitely follow, I've got a few bits to stick in the proper thread.


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## Ennoch

Finally got around to updating the main thread in the project forum, but here's a teaser shot:


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