# ford focus respray question



## dmrrider123 (Dec 17, 2011)

hi later in the year im thinking of respring my ford focus in ford frozen white which will be a 2k solid direct gloss paint my question is will I need to prime the whole car or is it okay to just prime the patches were there will be reairs like small dents that will get filled and chips that will get sanded out or will spraying these patches effect the colour when its applied thanks shaun


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## supernova-dw (Apr 26, 2014)

Just spot prime areas where you do a repair, I.e. areas where you go back to bare metal and fill. 

Once you've done all you repairs and spot priming flat the whole car using either 600 wet or 500 dry.

As for paint.... Personally I'd suggest going for a basecoat and lacquer over 2K solid.


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## robdcfc (Sep 17, 2012)

1st question should be, what colour is the car at the moment?


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## dmrrider123 (Dec 17, 2011)

the car is currently moondust silver the only reason for doing it in 2k gloss was that im spraying it in a workshop and not a booth so I didn't want to risk getting dust between the base and laqure


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

Id advise that all the repairs are spot primed and car is fully prepped. Then before applying the 2k direct gloss, id give the whole car a coat of white wet on wet primer then apply the 2k direct gloss. :thumb:


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## dmrrider123 (Dec 17, 2011)

okay thanks for your reply


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## supernova-dw (Apr 26, 2014)

robdcfc said:


> 1st question should be, what colour is the car at the moment?


Why? It doesn't make any difference so long as the paint is in good condition, just prep it and paint. If it were black and he wanted to paint it white or if it were blue and he wanted to paint it white it wouldn't make any difference to as if it needed priming or not.


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## supernova-dw (Apr 26, 2014)

dmrrider123 said:


> the car is currently moondust silver the only reason for doing it in 2k gloss was that im spraying it in a workshop and not a booth so I didn't want to risk getting dust between the base and laqure


Don't choose 2K direct gloss just because of this then... I paint outdoors and always use base and lacquer, as stupid as it sounds dust doesn't seem to settle in the basecoat/ if it does then it's not noticeable. Dust landing in the lacquer is what shows up so no difference between lacquer and direct gloss.


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## Aaran (Sep 18, 2007)

i would also base and clear. if your planning on wet flatting a fair bit of it 2k gloss will start to go translucent when you start removing a fair bit of material from sanding and polishing.

i think most of us at some point have made this error and ended up thinningo ut edges or high spots only to have them show through primer in the direct sun.

if you are going to use 2k gloss single stage and want to wet flat put at least 4 coats down.


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## supernova-dw (Apr 26, 2014)

Aaran said:


> i would also base and clear. if your planning on wet flatting a fair bit of it 2k gloss will start to go translucent when you start removing a fair bit of material from sanding and polishing.
> 
> i think most of us at some point have made this error and ended up thinningo ut edges or high spots only to have them show through primer in the direct sun.
> 
> if you are going to use 2k gloss single stage and want to wet flat put at least 4 coats down.


Agreed completely! I tend to avoid 2K direct gloss all together as when you flat it I find the colour can change... Plus I don't know if it's just me but I find it difficult to get as smooth a finish as I do with lacquer...


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

I would do it in 2k direct gloss !


Just preference ..... don't apply to many coats or you will start giving yourself more issues !


Tommy


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## dmrrider123 (Dec 17, 2011)

thanks for the replies guys I will look into doing it as base and clear the only reason for going for direct gloss was cost its only £65 for 5 litres of paint and 2.5 litres of hardener also without an oven how lock would base take to dry before it could be lacquered thanks?


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## dmrrider123 (Dec 17, 2011)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KAPCI-120...925?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item35ccc46605

has anyone used this lacquer before if so is it any good ? 
or is this better?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Max-Meyer...191?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43d6812707


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

max 0220 is a great clear ...very easy to use


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## supernova-dw (Apr 26, 2014)

dmrrider123 said:


> thanks for the replies guys I will look into doing it as base and clear the only reason for going for direct gloss was cost its only £65 for 5 litres of paint and 2.5 litres of hardener also without an oven how lock would base take to dry before it could be lacquered thanks?


Basecoat (Solvent) takes minutes to dry, give it 30 mins before you put on the lacquer and you can bu guaranteed it's dry.

As for lacquer I would recommend the Kapci lacquer you listed. It's great value for money, gives a nice gloss and is hardwearing.

If you need any other help or have any questions fire away, happy to help.


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## dmrrider123 (Dec 17, 2011)

Okay thanks for your help I think I will go for base and clear as it's only works out about £40 dearer and it will give a better finish


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## supernova-dw (Apr 26, 2014)

dmrrider123 said:


> Okay thanks for your help I think I will go for base and clear as it's only works out about £40 dearer and it will give a better finish


Yeh again I guess personal preference but I don't like 2K direct gloss unless I'm painting a van or areas not on show, I'm sure (it might be me?) it doesn't go on as smooth as lacquer. When I paint with 2K Gloss I end up having to flat and polish whereas using lacquer the gun finish is more than good enough for the average job.


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

are you doing full inside out ?


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## Aaran (Sep 18, 2007)

2k gloss is easy. rule of thumb i have is to always thin it 20%. i always shoot it through a 1.4 tip to, 2 coats is normally more than enough to get decent coverage and have it lay down flat.

you get the color change with 2k gloss when flatting either due to thinning it out to much when flatting it down or laying different coats in different thicknesses.

to save that trouble dont alter your gun settings between coats, and mix one lot of paint up in one go, dont mix 3-4 gun fulls separately as even changing the thinner quantity can alter the shade ever so slightly so when flatting it off if you go through to another layer it will show up as a color difference


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## Scoobycarl (Aug 13, 2011)

Can i ask while on the white subject sorry for the hijack op but you guys that paint whithout a propper paint booth do you get the odd black dot or fibre from gey scotch brite in your fininsh ? no matter how well i clean the car and shuts etc and also the floor around the car i allways get these bits ! It ****es me off too !


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## dmrrider123 (Dec 17, 2011)

I will be doing the door boot and bonnet shuts but not doing the engine bay at the moment maybe at a later date but just want to tidy the car up a bit as there is a few dents and scratches with it being 11 years old but don't have the confidence to paint the whole car silver I don't mind doing bumpers and trims with silver but its not the easiest to paint were as flat white is probably one of the easiest colours to spray


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

I would say its a harder colour to spray lol .....once the first coat is on the rest is guess work ! you cant see your overlap pass etc .....but go for it ! the only way you will learn 

White Base coat is also known for not the best coverage and just remember 15mins between coats depending on temp as its full of solvent and if you trap this your just throwing your cash away ! 

same with clear ..... you also must have 10degrees + for your clears to crosslink and cure properly as most solvents shut down anything lower than 5 degrees 

Also if doing in base coat you will have to make sure the prep is better (sanding scratches etc ) 


Take your time and you will be fine !


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## supernova-dw (Apr 26, 2014)

Scoobycarl said:


> Can i ask while on the white subject sorry for the hijack op but you guys that paint whithout a propper paint booth do you get the odd black dot or fibre from gey scotch brite in your fininsh ? no matter how well i clean the car and shuts etc and also the floor around the car i allways get these bits ! It ****es me off too !


Can't say I do no... And I paint under and open sided car port so of course far from ideal! Insects are the main pain for me... Get tiny little flys in the lacquer sometimes.

Where do you paint? Out in the open or? Sounds like your whole working area could do with a bit of a clean..?


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## dmrrider123 (Dec 17, 2011)

thanks guys mr paint would you say I would be easier doing it in 2k direct gloss I know the finish wont be 100% out of the gun so will need to be flattened and how long between coats if I do do it in direct gloss plus I suppose the bonus to direct gloss is that you don't need to paint the car as many times if that makes sense were as the base and clear I would have to go around the car 5-6 times at least wouldn't I also if I go for direct gloss will 5 litres be enough ?


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## Scoobycarl (Aug 13, 2011)

5 litres plus hardener would be 7.5 litres then you will thin a bit so should be ok as long as you have a neutral primer,i would use a wet on wet primer /sealer so its all one colour which will cover quicker / easier


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## Scoobycarl (Aug 13, 2011)

supernova-dw said:


> Can't say I do no... And I paint under and open sided car port so of course far from ideal! Insects are the main pain for me... Get tiny little flys in the lacquer sometimes.
> 
> Where do you paint? Out in the open or? Sounds like your whole working area could do with a bit of a clean..?


Its a self made booth which isnt the best but still no matter how clean i get floor and the car i still get the odd dark dirt nib lol


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

This is a 206 I done years ago and still looks this good now ! all done in direct gloss 2k

the bonnet was sanded for 2 tone job with 600g then cleared and no change in colour !

I have been painting this for many years and I have never noticed a colour shift in flattening and polish stage ! as if you had to denib it would stand out in that area !

Anyhow ... I would recommend straight 2k ...5ltr mixed is 7.5ltrs as USUALLY 2:1 +10-15% thinners but check with mfr! yes will be more than enough for full car .

Time between coats are dependant on temp tbh ....in these conditions allow 15-20mins between coats ..if you see a bit you have missed on first coat DONT spot it in ! let that coat flash and go in with 2nd coat

Just remember with 2k you apply how you want it to look ...but don't go for gun finish if your going to flatten and polish ! its easier to remove peel than runs !

Tommy


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## Scoobycarl (Aug 13, 2011)

Do you change set up as in pressure or fluid or gun tip size at all tommy ? I only use direct gloss 2k on transits and vans really


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

Usually up the pressure depending on gun mate ! 

Direct gloss is usually m/s h/s so I throw it though 1.3 gti pro @ roughly 32ish psi and it lies flat 

going to push some through the sata 4000 on Friday ...will fire pics up of gun finish 




Hope this helps 

Tommy


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## Scoobycarl (Aug 13, 2011)

Cool - will look foreard to those mate


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## dmrrider123 (Dec 17, 2011)

that finish looks great mate on that 206 I think I will be going for the direct gloss as its a lot easier with the direct gloss will I have to prime the whole car or can I get away with just priming the areas that need attention as 95% of the paint is good there is just the odd marks on various panels bonnet, roof and 1 door mainly I will also be painting the door trims and handles which will need priming ? if I key the whole car with 320 grit would this be fine?


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

Go for it mate ! Are you hand sanding or da sander ?


da I would use 400 by hand 600 paper wet ! 

Just spot prime your repairs make sure you finish on 240-320g then prime with 2k primer allowing proper flash times between coats 


Tommy


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

Trims I normally De grease --- 320 grit--- degrease apply 1k plastic primer allow 5 mins and apply 3 coats of 2k primer 


Tommy


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## dmrrider123 (Dec 17, 2011)

thanks mate you've been a great help I will be da as much as I can and hand sanding the other bits will 320 be a bit course or would it be okay as I have a full box of them ? cheers shaun


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## Scoobycarl (Aug 13, 2011)

If you are sanding the car with da then i would suggest using 500 with interface pad and grey scotch your edges and bits you cant get into,i use this method on large panels and will switch it to wet scotch with scuff it paste if it is a funny shaped bumper with lots of nooks n crannys but could still do it dry really
I will cut 2k primer with 320 on a block then refine that scratch with 500 on a da and your good to go mate,remember the grit is doubled on a da with interface so 500 would be about 1000 if you get what i mean


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## dmrrider123 (Dec 17, 2011)

I see what you mean but what does interface mean?


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## Scoobycarl (Aug 13, 2011)

Its kind of like a sandwhich pad that fixes onto the da before the sanding disc and is much more flexible so as you pass over body lines in your panels it wont take that edge off and go through to the primer or metal as easy, as if you did sand through you would need to prime that breakthrough area.you still need to be carefull but you will pick it up easy enough ?


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## toddy23 (Jun 16, 2012)

That's a loverly Finnish 206 tommy,what straight gloss system are you using,me personally on newish stuff I prefer base and clear but with 2k straight gloss it's 2 coats job done,I've just done a bmw bonnet this morning in straight gloss but took it easy with doing it in my garage at home as it's on the cold side here in Cumbria but got bonnet spot primed heated up my garage 1/2 hour before I applied the white
























Also blew corner of front bumper in


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## dmrrider123 (Dec 17, 2011)

that bonnet looks good mate and cheers Scoobycarl will look into getting one of those for my da ive got an electric da will that make any difference ?


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## dmrrider123 (Dec 17, 2011)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15-Hole-6...499?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5aef22f623 would this work okay Scoobycarl ?


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## Scoobycarl (Aug 13, 2011)

Yes mate thats same as mirka one we use really,as long as its hook n loop which is velcro it will fit your da mate,is your ellectric da a variable speed one ?


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## Scoobycarl (Aug 13, 2011)

toddy23 said:


> That's a loverly Finnish 206 tommy,what straight gloss system are you using,me personally on newish stuff I prefer base and clear but with 2k straight gloss it's 2 coats job done,I've just done a bmw bonnet this morning in straight gloss but took it easy with doing it in my garage at home as it's on the cold side here in Cumbria but got bonnet spot primed heated up my garage 1/2 hour before I applied the white
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks nice tommy ! Glad to see were not the only garrage that likes to READ while painting lol:lol:


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## dmrrider123 (Dec 17, 2011)

Yes my electric da is variable speed with 150mm velcro backing


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## Scoobycarl (Aug 13, 2011)

Cool mate some are one speed and can be too fast


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

Scoobycarl said:


> Looks nice tommy ! Glad to see were not the only garrage that likes to READ while painting lol:lol:


This was credit to Toddy ...his job lol


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## Scoobycarl (Aug 13, 2011)

My bad lol


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

as promised tho !

2k caddy straight out gun # sata 4000











Tommy


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## Scoobycarl (Aug 13, 2011)

Looks great of the gun tommy nice flat finish especially white mate, what settings for fluid and pressure with that 4000 ? 
Also what brand 2k do you use tommy ? We get ours in from local factor and never had as flat results but not used any other for years,do you grip n rip or 2 full wet coats ?


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

1.2 rp set up 2 turns out @ 2 bar 

3 full coats ...30 mins flash 

This job was cheap churchill paint from local supplier 2:1 + 10%


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## dmrrider123 (Dec 17, 2011)

that is an awesome finish straight from the gun im deffo going 2k direct gloss not base and clear as I will be pushed for time on painting it how long roughly am I looking at for 3 coats on a ford focus with flash times 5 hours ? or longer also im using a cheap hvlp gun with a 1.4mm tip will this be fine?


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## toddy23 (Jun 16, 2012)

Nice job on the hardest colour to paint especially on the 2nd coat


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## mr paint (Jul 11, 2009)

For sure mate was trying to explain this to someone in the booth ...even first coat using white primer lol !

It is a very tricky colour to paint !


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## Scoobycarl (Aug 13, 2011)

Even clearcoating a white bascoat is difficult on first coat when basecoat is matt !
Its like being snow blind lol


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