# How did the Pro's get started



## RICHIE1 (Aug 17, 2009)

I was just wondering how the Pros got into detailing, where did their training come from, how long was their training and how did they start up their business?

i will be doing the 5 day intensive training with *drive n shine *next year and i'm interested in how the pros got started.


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## -Ashley- (Nov 19, 2010)

Good question and a good thread :thumb:. I will also be interested in the answers given

Ashley


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

I think a lot started in dealers doing 5 minute hand washes and quick valets.... that's the trend I've spotted


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

This has been done many times before on this forum, I personally started off at the bottom, working for my self run of the mill "Valeting" and progressed, I feel there is alot of useful stuff to be lernt cleaning daily hacks and kiddy waggons that you will take with you right to the top.

Have a look around and you will soon see most if not all the top guys started off normal Valeting or preping in dealerships


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## andy-mcq (Sep 26, 2008)

just to start, im no pro detailer, its more than a hobby really like most on here.

first thing i started doing was valeting at a car supermarket, the average valet took around 2-3 hrs. so was doing around 3-4 valets a day. this was just a hoover and polish but still dressed engines etc .
i then got offered a chance to learn machine polishing, my job was then to machine polish dull/ faded cars and do the odd touch up. i impressed the bodyshop manager with this so got moved onto 'smart' repairs, learned the likes of bumper blow ins, ciggy burn repairs, screen repairs etc.
after about 6 months are so of doing this i moved into the actual bodyshop to start repairing/ prepping cars . i was always asking the lads to teach me how to paint in the ovens which they happily showed me, this then went onto me getting actual in house paint spraying training.
when a space was available i then got my own days painting cars all day. (we had a rota)
so some days i was painting some i was repairing/ prepping while still doing smart repairs.
and as im sure you no, machine polishing is a vital part of painting cars so was always doing this to. i evan got told i was to fussy with it!! ( this was a car supermarket)
this all started around 6 years ago now.
as said the detailing is a hobbie but you never no, times change and i may take it a bit more serious, but for now im more than happy to just be doing friends and familys cars.


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## RICHIE1 (Aug 17, 2009)

ok well i work in a mercedes benz dealership and ford before that!!! i was living in trinidad when i first realised i had a passion for cars to be presented to their full protential. i know the basics and all of what i do know is what i learned from this site, which is alot actually. 

i am really loooking forward to doing the 5 day training and then practice, practice, practice


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## RICHIE1 (Aug 17, 2009)

james b said:


> This has been done many times before on this forum, I personally started off at the bottom, working for my self run of the mill "Valeting" and progressed, I feel there is alot of useful stuff to be lernt cleaning daily hacks and kiddy waggons that you will take with you right to the top.
> 
> Have a look around and you will soon see most if not all the top guys started off normal Valeting or preping in dealerships


Did you get any proper training or was it just what you learned on the job ??


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## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

I began detailing Mercedes-Benz / BMW helping out at my Father's dealership as well as his Jag collection back in the late 50's, he enters them into Concours d'élégance events (detailing to another level) and as such I'm used to a large number of high-end new and used cars. The one thing I learned (and still have that last 98% to learn, mind you) way back then still holds true today " It's the surface preparation that makes the difference, not the product".

I detailed my first car when I was fourteen (a mere five and a half decades ago) it was a 1929 Bentley that belong to my Fathers friend Brigadier John Dix of Kensington, London. If, as they say, "God is in the details," then a 1929 Bentley is truly a religious experience. I knew then that detailing would become a passion and my méetier.

It has always been a relaxing past time for me and while at college I had a part-time business detailing classic vintage cars. From there to Concours d'élégance entrant then judge, and then on to writing car care articles and How-to: instructions, then writing a series of books on my favourite subject


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2010)

Bodyshop,then detailing quite simple really :lol:

Years of hacking around with any odd car,from rover 25s/metros to porsche,it takes time to be up with the best,training cant teach you every single thing!


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

My obsession for a plentiful amount of years has been cars followed closely by stunning ladies with heaving cleaverage and pleasant posteriors
It all started with my dad.
He was forever outside trying out his new shampoo, polish or wax that he had just bought from the local car spares store.
Amazingly he was a glutten for punishment owning a single stage BRG zodiac, jet black single stage talbot alpine, dark blue audi 80 sport, pattern was dark colours and they seldom rarely would have much in the way of dirt on them and always had an appealing shine, I loved it.
He would get me involved every so often and I really enjoyed seeing the transformation.

Years down the line my dad past away and I went off the rails slightly.
One day, a friend said I needed to get my act together, get a job.
What can I do? knowing he was in the auto trade I had no skills but loved cars.
He said, try valeting.
valeting! Whats that then?
He went on to explain that it was the preperation of all manner of vehicles so my eyes lit up and off I went round every main dealer in my home town.
I enjoyed the challenges set infront of me but hated being taken for a ride.
One supervisor was doctoring my pay slips and being a sub contractor, money wasnt that good, he just made it worse.
I continued on working with various other sub contract companys and even worked in house.
One day I was offered a supervisory role which changed my outlook on things, silver lining was there in my grasp and I took it by its throat, this pushed me even further knowing that my standards were what was keeping me where I was, not many would take there cars eleswhere which was some serious kudos for me.
I eventually got offered a job managing a sub contract company and to start with it was fantastic, all that hard work paid off.
Unfortunately the owner left me in complete control and just took the money with no care of what was being done, not the way I like to run things.
One morning, the MD at one of the main dealers I run asked for a meeting with me, I was a tad concerned obviously.
Long story short, he offered me 3 main dealerships which were all in one basket, downside I had one week to get everything up and running
How I did it i dont know but I had a sub contract valeting business with 10 staff, fully insured and fully kitted out within on e week!
Good time when this happened and in the first year me and my team turned over just shy of £200k.
Short lived story though as just under 2 years a national compnay come in and totally undercut me and ruined me basically, bad times for some months I can tell you that.
I lost focus for a while but then got back into the valeting game.
I wanted more besides just cleaning cars then detailing was put to me, I couldnt believe what bizzare figures could be charged and all for just cleaning a car, surely not?
I grew more intrigued and looked into it more then started practicing basic detailing until I had enough and had some training to sharpen up my rotary skills.
I knew how to use the machine but not to the point of various polishes and pads etc and how this could sharpen, refine and create stunning reults.
I started out in a fiesta hatchback van with a 125ltr tank and was talked about quite a bit due to the sheer small sizing of the vehicle yet after the clients car had been worked on, the finish outshone the small set up.
Needless to say, business kept picking up pace and here I am now.
It takes a lot of hard work and many years to get good at what you do, understanding how to treat majority of situations in the best manner, wht can you use if you run out of something or forgot to pick that said product up.
16 years on and I will be openly honest and say im still learning, but any one in the trade that says otherwise would be kidding themselves, no 2 cars are ever the same so open minded attitude and knowing your job really counts.

Sorry to keep going on:tumbleweed:


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## RICHIE1 (Aug 17, 2009)

Beau Technique said:


> My obsession for a plentiful amount of years has been cars followed closely by stunning ladies with heaving cleaverage and pleasant posteriors
> It all started with my dad.
> He was forever outside trying out his new shampoo, polish or wax that he had just bought from the local car spares store.
> Amazingly he was a glutten for punishment owning a single stage BRG zodiac, jet black single stage talbot alpine, dark blue audi 80 sport, pattern was dark colours and they seldom rarely would have much in the way of dirt on them and always had an appealing shine, I loved it.
> ...


Thanks for that !! it was interesting....... i know detailing is something i wanna do and i also know its not gonna be easy however, i need to fit it around my current job as a car salesman....mmmmmm

i have a question.....would it be worth investing a £1000 on training???


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Regardless of instructor, its more downto how the individual takes onboard the teachings and can adopt the methods/techniques.
Im sure there are many offering training and all are great at what they do but if your a cabbage ( not aimed directly of course ) then the training will be for nothing.
If your willing to learn and listen, take everything onboard and can take that to a car and trun it round to something special then its money well spent but like I said prior, the real learning begins when your on your own and no one is there to guide you through a potential issue or sticky situation.


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

james b said:


> This has been done many times before on this forum, I personally started off at the bottom, working for my self run of the mill "Valeting" and progressed, I feel there is alot of useful stuff to be lernt cleaning daily hacks and kiddy waggons that you will take with you right to the top.
> 
> Have a look around and you will soon see most if not all the top guys started off normal Valeting or preping in dealerships


Same for me,was never really shown anything other than the basics and just taught myself as I went along,same for machine polishing when I moved to detailing from valeting - Autopia and the Megs forum were the only ones around when I started,there was no such thing as Detailing World!


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## RICHIE1 (Aug 17, 2009)

Clark @ PB said:


> Same for me,was never really shown anything other than the basics and just taught myself as I went along,same for machine polishing when I moved to detailing from valeting - Autopia and the Megs forum were the only ones around when I started,there was no such thing as Detailing World!


how long ago was that ?


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

RICHIE1 said:


> how long ago was that ?


I think it was about 6.5 years ago I worked as a valeter at VW for about 6 months,was manager for a short time and then moved into detailing from there,seems a life time ago now!


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

I started working after school and at the weekends at a local car wash/detailing center a little over 21 years ago and picked up the basics there, but the things I know now were all picked up from learning as I go and from learning from others. After that I joined the US Army and when I got out I started working for GM (Saturn) doing volume detailing at their shop. Along side that I also detailed friends', family and of course my own cars. After getting into detailing I also dabbled in car upholstery, car audio, car mechanics, car sales, etc. After moving to Hungary I got my degree and started working as an IT monkey for a Swiss company here in Budapest... after about 3 years and a few added kilos I got fed up with desk work and decided to start my own mobile detailing business. I've been back in business for about 5 years now so that goal of mine has been accomplished! My next goal was to develop my own line of detailing products... mission 2 accomplished! Next mission: Carry on with what I've worked on a be successful with it... I guess we'll see how it goes! 

- Jesse


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## Kelly @ KDS (Aug 4, 2008)

complete reverse for me , started to learn about detailing after a few years of working and learning at my dads accident repair center back in the late 80's and early 90's .

At school i always had the dab hand when it come to wood work and metal work , turned out the best polished metal work and wood work of which i won awards for best in the year and highest marks for the practical work .

Then one of the first things to learn on was my bmx (while still at school) when they where in fasion the first time around , it was always the cleanest bike around and never dirty . one school holiday stripped the bike down and repainted completely diffrent colour , then colour match all the other components to match the frame colour.

From that it went into a motorbike were i was continously polishing the paint and chrome work then onto cars , had my first car before i was old enough to drive , but it was the cleanest shinest car in my village :thumb:

really started once working every spare hour at my dads company learning all about restoration , lead work , jig alignment , high / low bake paints / clear coats / solid colours / plastic repairs and lastly machine polishing and wet sanding .

Then fully stripped 6 different cars over a ten year period to bare shell and complete restoration up wards each one being wet sanded fully .

Strange how things turnout as i never looked at it , at the time as going to be my future job / work . As i was working full time for very large engineering company designing and developing cars/engines/engine controls , and then fixing cars part time evenings and weekends for extra money , the detailing side was just for passion only .

Now i am washing and detailing cars almost fulltime , and from the outsiders view and customer who have known me for years and who dont know whats involved think i am mad as all the talent i have and i am JUST WASHING AND CLEANING CARS, i dont even try to explain anymore as it wont do any good :lol:

Kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

There are lots of "Interviews" with Pro-detailers in the STUDIO section from memory.
Best wishes
Tim


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## Kelly @ KDS (Aug 4, 2008)

Envy Valeting said:


> There are lots of "Interviews" with Pro-detailers in the STUDIO section from memory.
> Best wishes
> Tim


Not with me on there Tim :thumb:
i guess i dont need to now  but valid point thou

Kelly

www.kdsdetailing.co.uk


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

kdskeltec said:


> Not with me on there Tim :thumb:
> i guess i dont need to now  but valid point thou
> 
> Kelly
> ...


It was a fad a few years back, and you would get invited to do one, but it seemed to have stopped getting asked and now if you want to do one kelly there is a form in the pro section IIRR.


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Been a keen enthusiast since getting my first car in 1988, an oxidised red MkII Escort. My dad introduced me to this wonder product called Autoglym Super Resin and got me hooked.

Worked for a few haulage firms when leaving school, got made redundant twice and thought sod this I'm going to have a crack at working for myself.

Using my poor redundancy settlement, I set up Jan 2003 offering a basic valeting service, doing anything and everything for about 18 months, found myself unable to leave the little bits untouched and spending far too much time on mini valets etc.. so a natural progression into detailing was found and self taught myself to use a rotary.

Looking back I would recommend anyone thinking of going into the profession to start in a similar manner, work from the bottom up and it will put you in good stead for most situations that arise.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Clark @ PB said:


> Same for me,was never really shown anything other than the basics and just taught myself as I went along,same for machine polishing when I moved to detailing from valeting - Autopia and the Megs forum were the only ones around when I started,there was no such thing as Detailing World!


I mind the posts on the megs forum of you at the IMO days of valeting ah the good times, personally its were everyone should start, the basic valeting skills and work your way up.

Thats how i started was a good eye opener you learn a lot and i actually enjoyed it.


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## Dan J (Jun 18, 2008)

Right!!!! as for me it started it started 16yrs ago, just left a catering job that i hated with a passion and was looking after my old dear as she was going through a messy divorce with the old man, was down in the dumps tbh and had no job and no money,a mate of mine worked in the parts dep for hapstead engineering a well respected volvo dealership in Ardingly, they were looking for a trainee valeter to join the team, i luckily got the place after a general interveiw and a quick test on my general car cleaning skills, after some intense training(washing,hand polishing,rotory polishing,finishing,waxing etc) they could see i had a natural nack for it, luckily the boss was extremely fussy and pushed us harder and harder to get that perfect finish,nothing less was exceptable. after many years of dedicated hard graft i decided i wanted a change as valeting and detailing volvos was starting to get a bit samey samey so went to an independant valeting company which had a contract at a big nissan/rover/mg dealership and airport parking where i experienced the worst technical methods of valeting and rotory polishing known to man and the bosh bosh attitude of getting cars out regardless of standards which didnt sit right with me at all (thats another story).
went home every day feeling down and completely unhappy with what i was having to do so my lovely wife said maybe a change is needed so i quit after telling the boss i wasnt going to work with a bunch of numptys with no standards to what we were doing. 

went for a job at gatwick airport doing night shifts deep cleaning aircraft interiors ie seat frames,****pit,the full monty basically/exteriors well exteriors were mainly washing, and de-icing in the winter,eventualy got extremely bored with this and missed working on cars bigtime so inbetween my crappy shifts at gatwick and my wife having our 3rd baby we got in contact with the princes trust and drafted up a business plan etc and got a loan to start our own valeting/detailing business, once id got the basic equipment i needed i quit the dreaded nights at the airport and went for it

was extremely happy to be back at what i do best and where my real passion and natural flair is 
after 3yrs of very hard graft we had a good customer base and i was starting to get alot of recomendations and the higher end sports cars started getting booked in much to my amazement

things were on the up

sadly my wife had a big breakdown during this exciting period and want for a better word didnt want to be here anymore(long story)
she was admitted to hospital and sectioned for 3 months which was hard for her and hard for the kids and myself/family etc, during this time i had to bite the bullet(trust me it ripped me to shreads having to stop what id built up) and throw down all tools and look after her, after she came home from hospital i had to care for her and the kids full time, she had no after care etc which is shamefull imho. 

been doing bits and bobs here and there valeting and detailing ontop of looking after the family, shes recently had another breakdown and was in hospital for a couple of months this time but the difference is she received proper therapy and is currently getting top notch aftercare which is helping massively   ,

so im now currently in transition from being a full time carer to trying to get my valeting/detailing business back up and running again ive started building my stock and old tired equipment back up but its going to be a long hard road again but ive still got the deep passion for this and will stop at nothing tbh fingers crossed please guys

ive only been on the forums just over 3yrs now and have made some good friends and have deepend my knowledge further which i am very gratefull for. 

sorry for the long one got a bit carryed away, hope it made sense

Dan


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

Wow Dan..... Man I take my hat off to you sir.

Very best wishes, good luck and x-fingers - with what you have written - you will succeed on determination alone.

You have my full respect.

J


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

RICHIE1 said:


> Thanks for that !! it was interesting....... i know detailing is something i wanna do and i also know its not gonna be easy however, i need to fit it around my current job as a car salesman....mmmmmm
> 
> i have a question.....would it be worth investing a £1000 on training???


Personally no a grand is too much money, when you can learn for free on here.

Apart from machine polishing detailing is all about reading up on techniques and putting them into practice. Even Haynes sell a detailing book in the US that you can import.

I would just buy a machine and some scrap panels and practice away.

Really detailing is not rocket science and there are plenty of machine polishing courses for much less money than a grand.


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## Flair (Dec 11, 2010)

RICHIE1 said:


> I was just wondering how the Pros got into detailing, where did their training come from, how long was their training and how did they start up their business?
> 
> i will be doing the 5 day intensive training with *drive n shine *next year and i'm interested in how the pros got started.


Have a look at the autosmart course, it's not much to lay out its £155 for two days. You get the basics then it's all about practice and finding the right techniques that work for you.

THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO VALETING
This two-day valeting training course aimed at both new and existing valeters. It not only teaches the basics but also industry best practice. The first day covers theory and a full step by step valet under instruction, covering wash techniques, interior cleaning, valeting process, chemicals and equipment. The second day of the valeting training course the groups do a full gold valet under instruction and cut a car back using a machine and compounds.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Its ultimately up to you if you feel investing £1000 is worth it or not, id say it is, but you will only get out of it what you put in, if your under the impression you will do the course and then be the next detailer dropping veyrons and zonders in the studio your wrong, what it will give you is a good base of knowledge to go away with and practice, it will also give you alot of "inside" "tricks of the trade" that to be fair in most industries you would only ever find out by working for someone, IMO a grand for 5 days is a very good deal.

The AS course is good to get the basics of "professionally cleaning a car" but again that on its own wont make you a "detailer", saying that nor will the other course, but they would both seed you on the right path to becoming one.



Mirror Finish said:


> Personally no a grand is too much money, when you can learn for free on here.
> 
> Apart from machine polishing detailing is all about reading up on techniques and putting them into practice. Even Haynes sell a detailing book in the US that you can import.
> 
> ...


What an idiotic statement, you learn alot more doing this type of thing hands on than you do sitting in your armchair reading about it  a grand for 5 days with a decent detailer is cheap full stop, it might be expensive to an amateur but if your looking to go away and do it as a business, £1000 is cheap to get inside knowledge from someone already doing it as a living, alot of industries you cant get that type of training.

Another thing to remember is alot of the info on this forum now is very misleading, and half of the responses now days are not the best/most accurate advise, by people who have done exactly what you say and read alot about it, but have not done much practically let alone done it in a professional sense.


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

james b said:


> What an idiotic statement, you learn alot more doing this type of thing hands on, than you do sitting in your armchair reading about it  a grand for 5 days with a decent detailer is cheap full stop, it might be expensive to an amateur, but if your looking to go away and do it as a business, £1000 is cheap to get inside knowledge from someone already doing it as a living, alot of industries you cant get that type of training.
> 
> Another thing to remember is alot of the info on this forum now, is very misleading, and half of the responses now days are not the best/most accurate advise, by people who have done exactly what you say and read alot about it, but have not done much practically let alone done it professional sense.


Couldn't agree more, hands on experience will be more beneficial than reading about it, direct answers to you questions and the ability to put theory to practice. 
Detailing is a lot about reassurance, you can read all the guides etc.. but still want first hand back-up that your doing it right or it will work.

£1000 for a week of an experienced/busy detailers time is money well spent.

The amount of e-mails/calls I used to get asking about training was ridiculous, you can tell who is genuinely willing to learn and benefit from guidance, to those that expect to learn everything from you in 2-3 hours because it will save them a few quid. (hence I no longer offer training).


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## RICHIE1 (Aug 17, 2009)

Thanks for all your responses guys ...... It looks like I will spend the £1000 and spend the week with drive n shine after all


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## Dan J (Jun 18, 2008)

The_Bouncer said:


> Wow Dan..... Man I take my hat off to you sir.
> 
> Very best wishes, good luck and x-fingers - with what you have written - you will succeed on determination alone.
> 
> ...


Thank you J, its been difficult to say the least but keep soldiering on as they say, once the wifes sorted its just a case of me getting a few bits topped up what ive already got and getting back out there and doing what i do best, wont take long to get back into it,just money is the other thing slowing things down but i shall persist.


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## Hazbobsnr (May 31, 2010)

Hi Dan.:wave:

Tons of luck to you fella and you`re family, you go for it, chase you`re passion mate.:thumb:

Next year im going to go for it myself, like you, i`ve always enjoyed cleaning my cars and friends cars etc. so why not try and turn it into a business. 

Cheers.:thumb:

Dave.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

I disagree.

How much can a detailer show you in a week before you fall asleep, or are you paying a grand just to follow him round.

If thats the case I think I will offer anyone to follow me round and pay me a grand.

Detailing in reality is just high end valeting, not rocket science. Clean a car, hoover a car, just never miss a bit and clean the pedals and cup holders.

The skill is the polishing and paint correction, small repairs etc. I can certainly train someone to do this in one to two days to allow him to buy scrap panels and learn from there. 

At the end of the day a weeks training will not bring in the bucks, and the marketing side is one side of my business I would never give out.

I started 5 years ago industrial estate bashing, going into compaines and asking for business, some days were good others were rubbish. I persisted and kept on door knocking, valeting, sometimes 10 cars a day to take home £70.

I kept on at it, the revenue kept increasing and I was asked for extra services, hence my current company is still here after humble beginnings 5 years ago. I had body shop experience of buffing so I taught my self proper machine polishing techniques.

Now I rarely do any valeting, mainly paint correction, window tinting, smart repairs. Will be investing in a dedicated van next year and doing full alloy wheel refurbs in a fully kitted van. 

Was I trained, NO. I just got stuck in and went for it.

Just my view.


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## Dan J (Jun 18, 2008)

thanks Dave it will be good to get back on it full time for me as ive missed doing full time so much, will hopefully get quite a few of my old regular customers back too

good luck with your business next year but may i just add that doing it as a business is totally different from doing your own and family/friends cars, theres alot to think about and are you technicly consistent with different paint types situations etc etc,
sorry if i sound like im putting a damper on things but im just offering some advice to help.. hope it does.

thanks Dave
Dan


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Entered concours 20 years ago and came second in an open class from across Europe and decided then i loved playing with cars.
Spent some time along the way doing what i loved , spent a good few hours with my good friend Miracle learning why he is where he is and cleaned a few hoovers and spent 3 months searching for spots on a new car and on Jan 1st 2010 Heavenly was born and i havent looked back since.
Carpe Diem.
:thumb:


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## Flair (Dec 11, 2010)

james b said:


> The AS course is good to get the basics of "professionally cleaning a car" but again that on its own wont make you a "detailer", saying that nor will the other course, but they would both seed you on the right path to becoming one.


See for me on the other hand, I have more experiance in machine polishing and paint correction than valeting. This is why ill be doing the AS course, as I feel i'll get more from that. The course for me is more a refresher and just little somthing back me up on my own along with my portfolio I'm building.
I gained my experiance from working in a bodyshop doing paint correction etc, and then on my own doing friends and friends of freinds cars over the past 5 years. So over that time i've self devloped the techniques i feel that work for me through trial and error. Ive also brought and sold over 20 run down cars in 3 years, they have all needed various bits of body work and a fresh breath of life. Now I feel it's time start up a proper business.


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## TelTel (Aug 21, 2010)

Mirror Finish said:


> I disagree.
> 
> How much can a detailer show you in a week before you fall asleep, or are you paying a grand just to follow him round.
> 
> ...


good what you said there. Its abit like asking a multi millionaire how he made his money……. im sure like most people he started with "NOTHING" and learnt by his mistakes on his road to becoming successful. I know someone who started a lighting company with 5 lights and a red ford escort van………..he went on to become a multi multi millionaire less than 20years later.

From a detailing point of view i think what your saying is right, not everyone has money to splash out on products, vans, website designers, generators etc etc and so to start of small and learn things bit by bit is probably the best way and therefore the pennies make the pounds and the pounds look after themselves. Me personally am hoping to get lots of work next year and will learn lots on the way i'm sure but this is also why we have this forum to gain help on things we are unsure of that others have experienced, dealt with and prevented/carried on in the future.


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