# Pre Wax Cleanser & Glaze Before Wax?



## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

I'm in the process of doing a new car detail at the mo

I've already used AF Rejuvenate as my pre wax cleanser

The paintwork on the new car is in good condition. There doesn't appear to be any defects in the paint (no swirling, marring etc).

So my question is, do I need to use a glaze before I wax or can I go straight to the wax?

BTW my glaze of choice is Prima Amigo and my wax of choice is Obsession Wax Hybrid 86


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## bigalc (Aug 7, 2014)

Surely by using a glaze you will be adding some gloss for under the wax.
never used prima amigo but i use meguires ultimate polish (which is a glaze) under my wax


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## OvEr_KiLL (Mar 2, 2015)

bristle you dont need to use a glaze then if there is no swirling etc. just use the wax on top of rejuvenate


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## Ads_ClioV6 (Apr 27, 2014)

add the glaze m8 it will add to the finish


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## danwel (Feb 18, 2007)

Depends on your school of thought, some love to glaze other like myself tend not to bother of paint is in decent condition but. Why try sowed with and some without to see what you think?


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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

OvEr_KiLL said:


> bristle you dont need to use a glaze then if there is no swirling etc. just use the wax on top of rejuvenate


this^^:thumb:

You don't need the glaze it'll make absolutely no difference to the end result, only to adversly affect durability of the wax:thumb:

Try doing a panel with the glaze step and doing the adjoining panel without - you'll see no difference if the car is in as good a condition as you've stated


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## Pittsy (Jun 14, 2014)

I say slap it all on :lol:


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## camerashy (Feb 9, 2014)

What colour is the car??
I used Prima Amigo >Aura > Hybrid 86 and it is one of the best finishes I have had on my lava grey pearl effect Audi


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

camerashy said:


> What colour is the car??
> I used Prima Amigo >Aura > Hybrid 86 and it is one of the best finishes I have had on my lava grey pearl effect Audi


The car I'm doing is Audi pearl effect sepang blue CS :thumb:


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

No glaze it is then

Thanks for all the advice folks. Appreciated :thumb:


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## bigalc (Aug 7, 2014)

If you already have amigo you should use it

Prima Amigo is a*unique polymer-based glaze. It fills light surface imperfections while prepping the paint for the application of a wax. It leaves a glossy, slick finish which is especially stunning on darker paints. Prima Amigo offers all the properties of a fine glaze without impeding the bond of a synthetic wax. With Prima Amigo, you can fill it then seal it. Amigo contains no silicones or waxes and is dust-free.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Summit Detailing said:


> this^^:thumb:
> 
> You don't need the glaze it'll make absolutely no difference to the end result, only to adversly affect durability of the wax:thumb:
> 
> Try doing a panel with the glaze step and doing the adjoining panel without - you'll see no difference if the car is in as good a condition as you've stated


sorry bubby but thats wrong, it has been proven many times that amigo darkens the look of the paint, leaving it looking wetter and deeper.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

bigalc said:


> If you already have amigo you should use it
> 
> Prima Amigo is a*unique polymer-based glaze. It fills light surface imperfections while prepping the paint for the application of a wax. It leaves a glossy, slick finish which is especially stunning on darker paints. Prima Amigo offers all the properties of a fine glaze without impeding the bond of a synthetic wax. With Prima Amigo, you can fill it then seal it. Amigo contains no silicones or waxes and is dust-free.


yep if you have it use it, if you dont have it buy some and use it, Fantastic glaze


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

cheekymonkey said:


> yep if you have it use it, if you dont have it buy some and use it, Fantastic glaze


I used it on 67 mustang, and won pageant power.:thumb: best presented car.


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## adjones (Apr 24, 2013)

cheekymonkey said:


> sorry bubby but thats wrong, it has been proven many times that amigo darkens the look of the paint, leaving it looking wetter and deeper.


Absolutely. The fact that this look will have gone after a week in rainy conditions is something that seems to be ignored with glazes (I bet very few have tried it). And wax on top, in my experience, does nothing to extend the life of the glaze. Imo, you only glaze if you have something to hide and a customer who isn't going to be looking too closely 2 weeks later.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

It's a glaze to give the paint it's gloss back and deep shine back, added with a a good wax it is amazing.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

adjones said:


> Absolutely. The fact that this look will have gone after a week in rainy conditions is something that seems to be ignored with glazes (I bet very few have tried it). And wax on top, in my experience, does nothing to extend the life of the glaze. Imo, you only glaze if you have something to hide and a customer who isn't going to be looking too closely 2 weeks later.


 Have used amigo many times and it lasted way more than a week if applied correctly. some of the best glazes have no filler content. 
Really, you believe pro's only use a glaze to hide things from there customers. thats a big claim your making and hope you can back it up, Also name and shame those who do so.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

heres a test Raven did on amigo and blackhole
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=250176


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## adjones (Apr 24, 2013)

cheekymonkey said:


> Have used amigo many times and it lasted way more than a week if applied correctly. some of the best glazes have no filler content.
> Really, you believe pro's only use a glaze to hide things from there customers. thats a big claim your making and hope you can back it up, Also name and shame those who do so.


Glazes ARE fillers. If it doesn't have fillers, it isn't a glaze.

How did you test the durability? Personally, if I do a vehicle, I find it very hard to gauge that a glaze is gone a week later, 2 weeks later or even a month later. The problem is that gloss and shine are so subjective and you need a reference point. Every time I have tried to do a 50:50, without looking at the other side, the glazed side looks pretty good a couple of weeks later - so I don't disagree there. However, I tend to think the other side looks pretty good too and I can find it very tough to see the difference. Maybe you would see more difference if the paint is in bad shape (I generally try to get it looking reasonable before putting anything on top).


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

adjones said:


> Glazes ARE fillers. If it doesn't have fillers, it isn't a glaze.
> 
> How did you test the durability? Personally, if I do a vehicle, I find it very hard to gauge that a glaze is gone a week later, 2 weeks later or even a month later. The problem is that gloss and shine are so subjective and you need a reference point. Every time I have tried to do a 50:50, without looking at the other side, the glazed side looks pretty good a couple of weeks later - so I don't disagree there. However, I tend to think the other side looks pretty good too and I can find it very tough to see the difference. Maybe you would see more difference if the paint is in bad shape (I generally try to get it looking reasonable before putting anything on top).


Sorry but again there are glazes that have no fillers there main job is to enhance the gloss ,or do you class then as something else?. nothing lasts for ever infact there are lsp's that last less then a month but are still great at what they do. Its all about getting what you want from a product. there are glazes that are filler heavy and do have a purpose but not in place of polishing.If the paint is perfect doesnt mean you cant use a glaze with fillers, they just get removed.
If your happy not using a glaze then dont use 1, but there are some who like to take it to another level if used right. check the photos of Raven you can clearly see the difference. Its all about making the car look its best


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

adjones said:


> Glazes ARE fillers. If it doesn't have fillers, it isn't a glaze.
> 
> How did you test the durability? Personally, if I do a vehicle, I find it very hard to gauge that a glaze is gone a week later, 2 weeks later or even a month later. The problem is that gloss and shine are so subjective and you need a reference point. Every time I have tried to do a 50:50, without looking at the other side, the glazed side looks pretty good a couple of weeks later - so I don't disagree there. However, I tend to think the other side looks pretty good too and I can find it very tough to see the difference. Maybe you would see more difference if the paint is in bad shape (I generally try to get it looking reasonable before putting anything on top).


So how do rate meguiars show car glaze as a filler.:thumb:


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

In the end I went with danwel's (us North East detailers got to stick together you know ) suggestion to give Prima Amigo a try and see what I thought

So tried the Amigo on the front door and liked the finish. It definitely added to the depth of gloss IMO so I did the whole car

Pic is with one coat of OW Hybrid 86 over Prima Amigo



On a side note, the OW Hybrid 86 is a joy to work with :thumb:


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## adjones (Apr 24, 2013)

cheekymonkey said:


> Sorry but again there are glazes that have no fillers there main job is to enhance the gloss ,or do you class then as something else?. nothing lasts for ever infact there are lsp's that last less then a month but are still great at what they do. Its all about getting what you want from a product. there are glazes that are filler heavy and do have a purpose but not in place of polishing.If the paint is perfect doesnt mean you cant use a glaze with fillers, they just get removed.
> If your happy not using a glaze then dont use 1, but there are some who like to take it to another level if used right. check the photos of Raven you can clearly see the difference. Its all about making the car look its best


OK, different approach. You believe that glazes and fillers are different. So give me an example of what ingredient makes a product a glaze and what makes it a filler. Not the marketing speak - the actual chemical which does it. I've spoken with the material suppliers (home brewer) and thise I've spoken to recommend exactly the same thing for a really high shine glaze and for something to fill swirls. What do you know that they are not telling me?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

adjones said:


> OK, different approach. You believe that glazes and fillers are different. So give me an example of what ingredient makes a product a glaze and what makes it a filler. Not the marketing speak - the actual chemical which does it. I've spoken with the material suppliers (home brewer) and thise I've spoken to recommend exactly the same thing for a really high shine glaze and for something to fill swirls. What do you know that they are not telling me?


so your saying the product which we call glaze is not a glaze but a filler? is that right?
I know of no product that is just filler, i know some products contain fillers and the amount of fillers differ dependent on the manufacture. Fillers are not just in glazes, they can be found in AIO,pre wax,sealants,waxes and polishes. So does that mean all them products are just a filler,Of course not they are a AIO that include fillers, a wax that contains fillers etc.
Amigo and 50 cal are both glazes and both are good but in different ways.
The amigo has little filling but great looks, 50 cal is great at filling but IMO not as good as amigo when it comes to looks. glazes are not just for filling they are gloss enhancers and some contain filler.


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## adjones (Apr 24, 2013)

I am saying that glazes are fillers and fillers are glazes. The chemicals which fill are the same as those which 'glaze'. How exactly they appear in a formulation will dictate how the product performs. What I am saying is that the whole way we are considering these products is wrong - fillers are not filling, they are just modifying how light interacts with the paint, just like a glaze does.

If you are so certain otherwise, I challenge you to find one specific example of a chemical which fills but does not glaze and one which 'glazes' but does not fill. There are thousands of products which will do a combination of the two so this is not information which is the sole possession of a privileged few.

Or lets just agree to disagree, for now.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

If glazes are just fillers and nothing else then how does 50 cal fill way better then amigo?. If you use the right glaze on machine polished paint it will still add to the look when no filling is needed. many products will fill just by the nature of the product, wax is one that comes to mind, but that doesn't mean a wax is just used for filling.


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