# Bilt Hamber Auto Foam Stripping LSP



## Peter_222 (Jun 24, 2015)

So got some auto foam and after reading that 4% is to be used with snow foam lance it worked out that I needed 720ml in my 900ml bottle for that ratio!!! 

I ended up putting 500ml in and put my foam lance. My car wasn’t really dirty but I gave it a go and left to dwell for approx 3 minutes.

Washed off and my roof which was coated with collinite 915 has been totally stripped... 

Rest of car was coated in fusso 99 which isn’t off but it’s beading has definitely been affected! 

Any thoughts??


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## steve67 (Jun 26, 2010)

I think your ratios are out.... I put about 15-20 mm in my bottle....and fill up with warm water....never had any issues


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## Beemerjohn (May 26, 2017)

This is what I use, this was worked out with the output of a nilfisk c120 but it seems to be fine with my p150 also. 

Autofoam 

1%=70ml 430ml water 1:6
2%=140ml 360ml water 1:2.5 
3%=210ml 290ml water 1:1.4
4%= 280ml 220ml water 1:0.8
5%= 350ml 150ml water 1:0.4




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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

4% panel impact ratio. 

Fill your foam bottle with water, turn your pressure washer on and shoot the water into the bucket until your bottle is empty. 

Measure what water you have and divide by 4%

I use a 2 litre snow foam bottle and I fill it with 800ml then the rest with water.


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## Peter_222 (Jun 24, 2015)

720 ml is 4% impact ratio. I filled my container of 900ml of water and emptied out which was finished at 18litres. I think that’s correct??

I mean my roof has been completely stripped. It was only waxed two weeks ago and was beading a dream. Washing off the autofoam there was no coating left at all.. unbelievable as collinite usually lasts me months 


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Defo 4% at 720ml based on the 18L output. Haven't experienced AF stripping at 4% though on any of my waxes, used it at the weekend on a coat of fireball fusion and beading was unaffected.

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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Wash the car with shampoo. Rinse if off well and wait for it to rain. Beading will return. No way 4% autofoam will strip collinite or fusso


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## Peter_222 (Jun 24, 2015)

I did wash it with bilt hamber auto shampoo and rinsed then lightly sprayed vehicle. The LSP on roof was gone. One bonus is I've got to use some sonax bsd for first time. It's so damn grabby but finishes well....









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## neilmcl (Mar 26, 2010)

Peter_222 said:


> 720 ml is 4% impact ratio. I filled my container of 900ml of water and emptied out which was finished at 18litres. I think that's correct??
> 
> I mean my roof has been completely stripped. It was only waxed two weeks ago and was beading a dream. Washing off the autofoam there was no coating left at all.. unbelievable as collinite usually lasts me months
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What PW do you use and I hope you didn't use the entire bottle of foam because that's a huge waste of product.

When you worked out your dilution what position did you have the mixing dial set to?


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## Peter_222 (Jun 24, 2015)

neilmcl said:


> What PW do you use and I hope you didn't use the entire bottle of foam because that's a huge waste of product.
> 
> When you worked out your dilution what position did you have the mixing dial set to?


I've a kranzle 160tst. No I hardly used any out of the bottle. It will be efficient as far as product usage. The foam was very thick also. I twisted the mixing dial as far as it would go in the minus direction. I followed a guide on here about it so I'm fairly confident the ratio is correct.

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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

Your dilution is correct. Has the car been parked anywhere that it could of picked up extra contamination that's maybe clogged the lsp


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## Peter_222 (Jun 24, 2015)

No the LSP was beading up on pre wash with just water before the auto foam. I’m at a loss.... 


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## dannygdesigns (Mar 16, 2015)

To be honest I’ve experienced a similar sort of thing and I assumed it was my imagination or user error as I’ve seen the constant love for it here. I started using AF through a 2 litre pump sprayer instead of my usual foam lance made sure the ratios were correct and applied only to the lower half of the car as a pre wash after rinsing off the water sheeted off everywhere as it should but the lower half was a totally different story could see there was no lsp left. I’ve gone back to using it in a snow foam lance and use much less than 4% on the panel I’d say I fill my lance with about 1-2 inch of product and rest water.


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## BradleyW (May 4, 2015)

I made a thread about this a few weeks ago. Pump sprayer, 40ml AF, 960ml water. It stripped my HydrO2 and BSD protection.


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## Atkinson91 (Oct 3, 2016)

Bilt hamber do say that it is LSP safe at 4% but not higher....
I've had some experience with autofoam dulling the beading after use, but never 'stripping' it unless something in my prep wasnt right before I put fusso on.


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## BradleyW (May 4, 2015)

If it dilutes the beeding then that isn't wax safe in my opinion so BH need to respond.


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## Peter_222 (Jun 24, 2015)

BradleyW said:


> I made a thread about this a few weeks ago. Pump sprayer, 40ml AF, 960ml water. It stripped my HydrO2 and BSD protection.


I wonder if there's an extra strong batch going about?? Seems a few ones recently have experienced this.... very weird. I know my prep and application of the collinite and fusso were spot on and I've washed car several times since the application only change has been the snowfoam.

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## Atkinson91 (Oct 3, 2016)

BradleyW said:


> If it dilutes the beeding then that isn't wax safe in my opinion so BH need to respond.


It dulled the beading due to the residue left over/dried rather than it stripping....if i stay on the spot longer with the pressure washer the beading returns.

Hmmm, hopfully bilt hamber can chime in!


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## trv8 (Dec 30, 2007)

Peter_222 said:


> I twisted the mixing dial as far as it would go in the minus direction. I followed a guide on here about it so I'm fairly confident the ratio is correct.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think when doing the % calculation you need to have the mixing dial in the fully open position (+).


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

trv8 said:


> I think when doing the % calculation you need to have the mixing dial in the fully open position (+).


It does not matter what setting you do the dilution calculation as long as you keep it on the same setting for future use.

i.e test on full +, then always keep it on full +

test on full - then always keep on full -

Once you change the dial the dilution setting will change and you won't know how much foam to put in to get the required panel impact ratio.


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## Kenan (Sep 7, 2015)

I'm sure it was stripping my Lsp. I have changed to a pump spray and now no problem as easier to get the dilution ratios correct.

Then when I'm going to clay/polish the car I get the foam gun out with polar blast and go full foam 

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## Bilt-Hamber Lab (Apr 11, 2008)

BradleyW said:


> If it dilutes the beeding then that isn't wax safe in my opinion so BH need to respond.


Thorough rinsing with cold water is essential after use as traces of the surfactant otherwise left will reduce beading. It's also important as the ambient temps increase to watch out for hot/warm body panels ( esp on dark colours) as you will easily get to the cloud point (CP) of the applied detergent/snow foam/ apc. As the CP is reached the products go up a gear in performance. So in summer less product is needed than winter, so typically 2% when warm will do what 4% does in winter.

Not all LSP's are equal - I've seen some that can be removed with surfactant mild enough for making baby shampoo, difficult to make a cleaning product of any use whatsoever if we have to accommodate this type of LSP - they are there to protect and should do IMO against routine cleaning agents.


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## BradleyW (May 4, 2015)

Bilt-Hamber Lab said:


> Thorough rinsing with cold water is essential after use as traces of the surfactant otherwise left will reduce beading. It's also important as the ambient temps increase to watch out for hot/warm body panels ( esp on dark colours) as you will easily get to the cloud point (CP) of the applied detergent/snow foam/ apc. As the CP is reached the products go up a gear in performance. So in summer less product is needed than winter, so typically 2% when warm will do what 4% does in winter.
> 
> Not all LSP's are equal - I've seen some that can be removed with surfactant mild enough for making baby shampoo, difficult to make a cleaning product of any use whatsoever if we have to accommodate this type of LSP - they are there to protect and should do IMO against routine cleaning agents.


Great stuff I'll definitely reduce the amount of product to see how it fairs with my applied DSW LSP. Agreed, the foam does require thorough rinsing.


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## Peter_222 (Jun 24, 2015)

So update ref the Auto Foam. Used the exact same strength ratio to wash another car that is coated with gyeon wetcoat. It wasn’t as warm and this was a silver metallic s max as opposed to my deep pearl black golf. 

There was no apparent reduction in the beading and the LSP held up perfectly fine. 

I know it’s a different LSP but I’ve found wetcoat doesn’t last as long as collinite in normal conditions so I can only presume the residual heat of my roof has caused the auto foam to strip the collinite. 

I’ll definitely be reducing the impact ratio to 1 or 2 percent as my car is never that dirty anyway. 


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## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

Peter_222 said:


> So update ref the Auto Foam. Used the exact same strength ratio to wash another car that is coated with gyeon wetcoat. It wasn't as warm and this was a silver metallic s max as opposed to my deep pearl black golf.
> 
> There was no apparent reduction in the beading and the LSP held up perfectly fine.
> 
> ...


If its hot enough to affect a wax e.g softening it then surly you shouldent be washing in that condition


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## Peter_222 (Jun 24, 2015)

It was a hot day. But car was in the shade and panel temp didn't feel that warm. I've used other snow foams in hotter conditions and they've never stripped wax. But every days a learning day 

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## neilmcl (Mar 26, 2010)

Well all I'll say is that I've been using AF at 4% for years and my car's LSP of Collinite 845 and BSD has never been affected by it.


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## cleslie (Feb 19, 2006)

I use 50ml and top with water to 500-600ml in the lance and have never had any issues. Auto Foam has always performed superbly for me. Been doing it that way for years.


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## BradleyW (May 4, 2015)

I've just used BH Auto Foam again today. Ambient was around 15c. Impact ratio 3%. LSP used is BH Double Speed Wax. The foam didn't strip the Wax. Beeding and sheeting acted normal. Cold water used only.


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Interesting old thread - some products simply do not like BH Auto Foam, even at <4% PIR. Turns freshly applied BSD into a sheeter for me.

Any other opinions on this?


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## Woodsmoke (Feb 12, 2018)

Well I think AF isn't really PH neutral and that is fine, but if you top LSP isn't the least bit chemical resistant i reckon that's what kills them. 

For example using V07 hybrid wax from chemicals guys, foam using there own V07 soap and all its fine and lasts for 2-3 months, using AF its gone first wash it just is designed to take a chemical hit I think, but using DSW for example it last donkey's but that is one of the toughest and chemical resistant waxes i've managed to try.


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## GeeWhizRS (Nov 1, 2019)

I find BSD pretty robust. Are you applying it straight from the bottle as it’s intended or are you using it as a drying aid?


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## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

Woodsmoke said:


> Well I think AF isn't really PH neutral and that is fine, but if you top LSP isn't the least bit chemical resistant i reckon that's what kills them.
> 
> For example using V07 hybrid wax from chemicals guys, foam using there own V07 soap and all its fine and lasts for 2-3 months, using AF its gone first wash it just is designed to take a chemical hit I think, but using DSW for example it last donkey's but that is one of the toughest and chemical resistant waxes i've managed to try.


Correct PH 13 neat so if you get your dilutions wrong it could very well impact some LSP's


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## Woodsmoke (Feb 12, 2018)

Rian said:


> Correct PH 13 neat so if you get your dilutions wrong it could very well impact some LSP's


I always get 4% use a hand foamer for it,so its very easy. still kills of certain coatings lol not every chemical plays nice with others. still love it


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## \Rian (Aug 23, 2017)

Woodsmoke said:


> I always get 4% use a hand foamer for it,so its very easy. still kills of certain coatings lol not every chemical plays nice with others. still love it


Even at 4% its still probably not PH neutral so that would stand to reason.


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## Woodsmoke (Feb 12, 2018)

Rian said:


> Even at 4% its still probably not PH neutral so that would stand to reason.


That's what i figure too, anything that is either caustic or acidic is going to effect any LSP to some degree, so it just depends on the chemical resistance of any LSP you use. doesn't mean that that LSP wouldn't hold up to driving abuse just not this chemical.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

The simple answer then is to either change your snowfoam, if you really like your LSP, or change your LSP if you really like the snowfoam.


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## shine247 (Mar 1, 2010)

For those that think Autofoam may be stripping LSP, it is worth having a look at the thread below. Some experience the issue, some have never had it (or realised it) and some just got it wrong.

Either way, if it was stripping coatings (not staining), it may support what you are finding. It may be more evident on plastics.

Personally, I bought it a long time ago and tend to use it only if I am at the end of a LSP cycle when I am not bothered about the LSP anymore. Perhaps because I never need that level of cleaning power. 
You can use less than 4%, if you are just dealing with light dust, why go in all guns blazing?

It is a very popular product and Bilthamber make some very good stuff, I have quite a bit. Plus, they always help with questions if you call.

https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=403123


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Thanks guys - missed the replies until now.

Initial layer of BSD would have always been on a dry surface, topped occasionally as a drying aid. Even the freshest coat of BSD is degraded upto 80% by BH Auto Foam... not a huge issue for me, but they are two products I like so bought them for a family member and on reflection a bad idea as they don't play well together. It is being used at approx 2% PIR, rather than the 4% advertised which makes it all the more strange.

Fair point by Rosco - I'm just surprised with the number of BSD and Auto Foam lovers on here very few have mentioned it - especially as BSD is regarded to be one of the more durable 'QDs'. 

My own car is as chemically resistant as it gets with the various layers - no need for BSD


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