# explaining



## james vti-s (Aug 9, 2011)

how is the best way to explain the difference between detailing and valeting to a customer


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

Valeting is cleaning and making it look clean 
Detailing is its name its in all the details more indepth cleaning


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

valeting - basic wash
detailing - claying, machine polishing etc

would of thought you'd know how to answer a question like that given you say 'customers' so i assume do this for a living?..


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

-Kev- said:


> valeting - basic wash
> detailing - claying, machine polishing etc
> 
> would of thought you'd know how to answer a question like that given you say 'customers' so i assume do this for a living?..


Can be hard to explain to some one who isnt a mad head like us lot :lol: Most people just glaze over when I tell them


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Detailing is extreme valeting to an anal level no part left untouched uncleaned or unpolished
( to a layman on the street )


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

-Kev- said:


> valeting - basic wash
> detailing - claying, machine polishing etc
> 
> would of thought you'd know how to answer a question like that given you say 'customers' so i assume do this for a living?..


Without wanting to open this can of worms again, disagree with valeting being basic washing.

Personally I'd say valeting is the level of cleaning of vehicles that is widely accepted by the general public and detailing is an extensive niche that goes above and beyond valeting.


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

To make people understand they must be educated.... 

Education = Understanding. 

An understanding + High Quality Workmanship = Good Reputation.

Good Reputation = Increase in Enquiries and Work

The very first thing I did when I started all this was to EDUCATE. The second part was practical end results. It pays off......!!!!




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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

Azonto said:


> Without wanting to open this can of worms again, disagree with valeting being basic washing.
> 
> Personally I'd say valeting is the level of cleaning of vehicles that is widely accepted by the general public and detailing is an extensive niche that goes above and beyond valeting.


R u not expressing what Kev said but in a different manor...!!!!!!! 😳

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## 888-Dave (Jul 30, 2010)

-Kev- said:


> valeting - basic wash
> detailing - claying, machine polishing etc
> 
> would of thought you'd know how to answer a question like that given you say 'customers' so i assume do this for a living?..


Sorry Kev but thats a very narrow minded comment from someone with as much forum presence as you. 
Valeting is more than often so much more than a "basic wash" (we'll leave that to the hand car wash boys) Just because the word detailing gets thrown about willy nilly doesn't mean for one minute that a "detailer" with 2 years experience can do a better job than a valeter who's been doing it for 10-15 years. 
Agreed that time and cost restraints allow you to carry out things like full decon and paint correction on a detail where as the average cost for a valet just won't allow for these processes, doesn't mean the workman ship isn't there.

As Allen has said... taking valeting to the extreme. Leaving no stone unturned.

Would have thought you'd know how to reply to a question like that given the amount of time you spend on here


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

If u search www valeter will take 4 - 5 hours to do a car inside out..... A detailer, will take 18 + hours.....!!!!! There is a big difference with both, there is a market for both, you get what you pay for.... I would not expect a £50 Valet to have the same finish and long term results as a £300 Detail....


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

That doesn't make valeting a "basic wash" though, which was my point


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)




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## dcj (Apr 17, 2009)

Azonto said:


> That doesn't make valeting a "basic wash" though, which was my point


DW propaganda,probably a quiet month for the supporters.


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## tom-225 (Aug 30, 2009)

Detailing = Valeting 

Detailing is purely the US term for valeting, wether is a slap and dash, or a 2 week intensive, its all detailing over there. Its just a description that has been brought over via forums etc.

As for which is which, all down to wether you want to take the yank term or the british term. Forums and "pros" have just taken it to split the 2 terms up and given "valeting" a low graded level of work quality.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Azonto said:


> Without wanting to open this can of worms again, disagree with valeting being basic washing.
> 
> Personally I'd say valeting is the level of cleaning of vehicles that is widely accepted by the general public and detailing is an extensive niche that goes above and beyond valeting.


i think your taking what Kev said out of context. He's not saying that a valeter only does a basic wash and thats all he's saying where a valeter washes a car to start with they dont clay or machine polish like a detailer does


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## mr.t (Oct 1, 2010)

I wouldnt say valeting is a basic wash.I would happily have a valet every now and then . detailing is abit more in depth like getting the best out of a cars finish.It isnt just about being clean is it really?Detailing is more about taking the overall finish and paint to the next level, where as a normal wash is just basicaly getting dirt off the car for the average person.


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## President Swirl (Oct 23, 2011)

A valeted car looks good from ten yards, a detailed car looks good from 10 cm.


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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

cheekymonkey said:


> i think your taking what Kev said out of proportion. He's not saying that a valeter only does a basic wash and thats all he's saying where a valeter washes a car to start with they dont clay or machine polish like a detailer does


Some do both regardless of what term is used


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

tom-225 said:


> Detailing = Valeting
> 
> Detailing is purely the US term for valeting, wether is a slap and dash, or a 2 week intensive, its all detailing over there. Its just a description that has been brought over via forums etc.
> 
> As for which is which, all down to wether you want to take the yank term or the british term. Forums and "pros" have just taken it to split the 2 terms up and given "valeting" a low graded level of work quality.


Yes over the pond it is know as detailing, but here there is a difference. The difference detailing and valeting to me is mainly machine polishing to a perfect or as perfect finish without the use of fillers. detailers price the work, valeters work to a price imo


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

dennis said:


> Some do both regardless of what term is used


sort of, some valeters do detailing as well, and some valeters on here do excellent detailing, and some detailers are at best valeting


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

-Kev- said:


> *valeting - basic wash*
> detailing - claying, machine polishing etc
> 
> would of thought you'd know how to answer a question like that given you say 'customers' so i assume do this for a living?..





cheekymonkey said:


> i think your taking what Kev said out of proportion. *He's not saying that a valeter only does a basic wash* and thats all he's saying where a valeter washes a car to start with they dont clay or machine polish like a detailer does


Sorry I disagree

Edit;
And as a valeter, I have no problem with using clay and my machine polishers when requested to do so by a customer who wishes for that level of work to be carried out.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Azonto said:


> Sorry I disagree
> 
> Edit;
> And as a valeter, I have no problem with using clay and my machine polishers when requested to do so by a customer who wishes for that level of work to be carried out.


well if your using clay and doing proper machine polishing down to a excellent finish and not just a quick going over leaving holograms etc then your detailing not valeting:thumb:


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> well if your using clay and doing proper machine polishing down to a excellent finish and not just a quick going over leaving holograms etc then your detailing not valeting:thumb:


So valeting is leaving holograms?


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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

Keeping it on topic, some time it's not worth trying to explain the difference, just do what you say you can and what the customer wants, to a high standard simple.


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> well if your using clay and doing proper machine polishing down to a excellent finish and not just a quick going over leaving holograms etc then your detailing not valeting:thumb:


I'd say I was machine polishing to an excellent finish. I'm still a valeter.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

kempe said:


> So valeting is leaving holograms?


The majority of valeters work to a price and time is money, many valeters when they machine polish do 1 hit and thats all for the price. have seen hundreds of cars machined by valeters and 90% were not finish properly. I once got told by a valeter its a waste of time machining a silver car its only a benifit on dark coloured cars


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Azonto said:


> I'd say I was machine polishing to an excellent finish. I'm still a valeter.


you may be a valeter but you did a detail :thumb:


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

I think many comments regarding Valeting has been general consensus over time. There are going to be valeters who will pitch in a say they machine polish and do everything else. 

I have my own opinion which i will not state as i know ill be slaughtered, but that is my opinion. I do not disrespect valeters, in all honesty i think in many instances they have a harder job than "detailers". I know some valeters who do, what we term as, detail cars, but will never use the phrase detailers to describe themselves as they think its soo pretentious.

Most valeters will clay and polish a car so its not that, which makes the difference.

And the name Detailer came from America as if you were a valeter you parked cars.....so does that not mean detailer/valeter is the same thing its just that we have made it into something its not ?


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> you may be a valeter but you did a detail :thumb:


Poor finish compounding = valet
good finish compounding = detail

Is that about right?


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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

Prism Detailing said:


> I think many comments regarding Valeting has been general consensus over time. There are going to be valeters who will pitch in a say they machine polish and do everything else.
> 
> I have my own opinion which i will not state as i know ill be slaughtered, but that is my opinion. I do not disrespect valeters, in all honesty i think in many instances they have a harder job than "detailers". I know some valeters who do, what we term as, detail cars, but will never use the phrase detailers to describe themselves as they think its soo pretentious.
> 
> Most valeters will clay and polish a car so its not that, which makes the difference.


So did'nt you ever valet before progressing to detailing? not having a pop just a ?


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> you may be a valeter but you did a detail :thumb:


Apologies to the OP for being slightly off topic here.

In this example, I machined the car to a perfect finish on the paintwork, but I didn't clean inside the fuel cap, I didn't polish the tail pipes, I cleaned the wheel faces but not the backs..

I didn't detail anything, I machined the paintwork of a vehicle under my job title, which is "Valeter" :thumb:


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## Hasan1 (Jul 1, 2011)

Azonto said:


> Sorry I disagree
> 
> Edit;
> And as a valeter, I have no problem with using clay and my machine polishers when requested to do so by a customer who wishes for that level of work to be carried out.


So when someone asks for more work to be done ie clay and machine polish there car would you not say that's detailing it rather then doing a valet for them as more detail has gone in to your work?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Azonto said:


> Apologies to the OP for being slightly off topic here.
> 
> In this example, I machined the car to a perfect finish on the paintwork, but I didn't clean inside the fuel cap, I didn't polish the tail pipes, I cleaned the wheel faces but not the backs..
> 
> I didn't detail anything, I machined the paintwork of a vehicle under my job title, which is "Valeter" :thumb:


so you class your self just a valeter then


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

dennis said:


> So did'nt you ever valet before progressing to detailing? not having a pop just a ?


I had worked in a dealership when i was very young helping out as my mother worked there, but being OCD when it comes to paintwork, my main passion was and still is in paint correction. I do not deny in detailing there is an element of valeting (unless you only paint correct and do nothing else which there are some guys who do).


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

dennis said:


> So did'nt you ever valet before progressing to detailing? not having a pop just a ?


to become a king you need to be a prince first :thumb:


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

Hasan1 said:


> So when someone asks for more work to be done ie clay and machine polish there car would you not say that's detailing it rather then doing a valet for them as more detail has gone in to your work?


I'm afraid not, I'd say that I had valeted their car to include clay preparation for the paintwork and a 1,2 or 3 stage polish depending on the level of defects and what was required from the finished product (ie the customer expectations)

If I was to clean a car to a level whereby an incredible amount of detail had gone into my work, I'd have valeted the car in an incredible amount of detail including for example all panel gaps, wheels off, full decon, full correction of the paint, protection of all surfaces, exhaust tips polished etc etc.

I'm still a valeter at the end of it and I'd expect my reputation and future jobs to come from my level of work, not what I called myself.


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

Back to the OP, its not a conversation to have with a "customer" about the difference about valeting and detailing, maybe more the differences in the level of service your willing to offer...i.e this is polished by hand and this is by machine, single stage, 2/3+ stage correction and more....so i think the problem the OP is having is by over complicating things for whoever he is explaining it to...


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Azonto said:


> I'm afraid not, I'd say that I had valeted their car to include clay preparation for the paintwork and a 1,2 or 3 stage polish depending on the level of defects and what was required from the finished product *(ie the customer expectations)*
> 
> If I was to clean a car to a level whereby an incredible amount of detail had gone into my work, I'd have valeted the car in an incredible amount of detail including for example all panel gaps, wheels off, full decon, full correction of the paint, protection of all surfaces, exhaust tips polished etc etc.
> 
> I'm still a valeter at the end of it and I'd expect my reputation and future jobs to come from my level of work, not what I called myself.


And theres the difference a detailer would do it until it was to there own expectation not the customers :thumb:


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> so you class your self just a valeter then


"Just" a valeter?

How do you mean?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Azonto said:


> Apologies to the OP for being slightly off topic here.
> 
> In this example, I machined the car to a perfect finish on the paintwork, but I didn't clean inside the fuel cap, I didn't polish the tail pipes, I cleaned the wheel faces but not the backs..
> 
> I didn't detail anything, I machined the paintwork of a vehicle under my job title, which is "Valeter" :thumb:


Again for the sakes of about half an hour a detailer would of done the things you left, putting the finish of the job above time and money :thumb:


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## Hasan1 (Jul 1, 2011)

Azonto said:


> I'm afraid not, I'd say that I had valeted their car to include clay preparation for the paintwork and a 1,2 or 3 stage polish depending on the level of defects and what was required from the finished product (ie the customer expectations)
> 
> If I was to clean a car to a level whereby an incredible amount of detail had gone into my work, I'd have valeted the car in an incredible amount of detail including for example all panel gaps, wheels off, full decon, full correction of the paint, protection of all surfaces, exhaust tips polished etc etc.
> 
> I'm still a valeter at the end of it and I'd expect my reputation and future jobs to come from my level of work, not what I called myself.


good reply:thumb:


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> Yes over the pond it is know as detailing, but here there is a difference. *The difference detailing and valeting to me is mainly machine polishing to a perfect or as perfect finish without the use of fillers.* detailers price the work, valeters work to a price imo





cheekymonkey said:


> *And theres the difference a detailer would do it until it was to there own expectation not the customers* :thumb:


So which is it?

I can provide my customers with a perfect finish..

This perfect finish is also to my personal standards and is always well received and above the expectations of my customers.

I've still valeted their car to include a high level of detail.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Azonto said:


> "Just" a valeter?
> 
> How do you mean?


and not a detailer in and means


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Azonto said:


> So which is it?
> 
> I can provide my customers with a perfect finish..
> 
> ...


you didnt provide your customer with a perfect finish though the tail pipes wasn't polished the back of the wheels wasn't ether. you said it was to the customers expectation not above it


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> i think your taking what Kev said out of context. He's not saying that a valeter only does a basic wash and thats all he's saying where a valeter washes a car to start with *they dont clay or machine polish* like a detailer does


I, and I suspect a lot of valeters, would disagree with that statement


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> i think your taking what Kev said out of context. He's not saying that a valeter only does a basic wash and thats all he's saying where a valeter washes a car to start with they dont clay or machine polish like a detailer does





Azonto said:


> I'd say I was machine polishing to an excellent finish. I'm still a valeter.





Azonto said:


> Apologies to the OP for being slightly off topic here.
> 
> In this example, I machined the car to a perfect finish on the paintwork, but I didn't clean inside the fuel cap, I didn't polish the tail pipes, I cleaned the wheel faces but not the backs..
> 
> I didn't detail anything, I machined the paintwork of a vehicle under my job title, which is "Valeter" :thumb:





cheekymonkey said:


> Again for the sakes of about half an hour a detailer would of done the things you left, putting the finish of the job above time and money :thumb:


Of course I would do the extra bits, my example was reference to _only_ machining paintwork and still being a valeter.



cheekymonkey said:


> and not a detailer in and means


I'm a valeter yes but I don't feel valeters should be looked down on as "just" a valeter.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Superspec said:


> I, and I suspect a lot of valeters, would disagree with that statement


the majority of valeters have to work to a time limit doing such things as claying and machine polishing are a no go. Go to most main dealers and car sale and ask there valeters if they do it they will say no, they get payed for what they do not what it looks like. A going over with a aio is acceptable to there bosses


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

Azonto said:


> So which is it?
> 
> I can provide my customers with a perfect finish..
> 
> ...





cheekymonkey said:


> you didnt provide your customer with a perfect finish though the tail pipes wasn't polished the back of the wheels wasn't ether. you said it was to the customers expectation not above it


This post was not reference to my previous example, it was a statement on its own.


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> the majority of valeters have to work to a time limit doing such things as claying and machine polishing are a no go. Go to most main dealers and car sale and ask there valeters if they do it they will say no, they get payed for what they do not what it looks like. A going over with a aio is acceptable to there bosses


For dealer prep where they pay peanuts maybe. But not for private customers.

But there are a lot of valeters out there who do paint decontamination, machine polishing decent protection etc

Obviously, they will charge a fair price for that work.

Can I ask, are you a pro valeter or pro detailer?


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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

Prism Detailing said:


> I had worked in a dealership when i was very young helping out as my mother worked there, but being OCD when it comes to paintwork, my main passion was and still is in paint correction. I do not deny in detailing there is an element of valeting (unless you only paint correct and do nothing else which there are some guys who do).


That's what i was getting at there is a grey area where the term valet/detail does not matter, there are plenty on here that started out doing valets and progressed into detailing whilst still carrying out valets if that is what the customer wants, a basic job.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Azonto said:


> Of course I would do the extra bits, my example was reference to _only_ machining paintwork and still being a valeter.
> 
> but you said you didnt do the extra bits not me, and my meaning is a detailer couldn't of left them bits. it would give them nightmares if they left them.
> 
> I'm a valeter yes but I don't feel valeters should be looked down on as "just" a valeter.


but you said you didnt do the extra bits not me, and my meaning is a detailer couldn't of left them bits. it would give them nightmares if they left them.*
firstly i dont look down on anyone who is a valeter, my meaning was even though you do work to a high standered you see your self as just a valeter and not a valeter/detailer


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Superspec said:


> For dealer prep where they pay peanuts maybe. But not for private customers.
> 
> But there are a lot of valeters out there who do paint decontamination, machine polishing decent protection etc
> 
> ...


dealer prep is that diffrent to valeting then.
i did say earlyer there are some valeters on here that do good detailing ie envy


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> dealer prep is that diffrent to valeting then.
> i did say earlyer there are some valeters on here that do good detailing ie envy


Answer the question. Are you a pro valeter or a pro detailer?

Dealers pay peanuts. Most valeters won't decontaminate paint for what they pay although some dealers will expect a very basic machine polish. But, dealers aren't the only customers and a lot of valeters wont work for dealers because they don't pay well. Many valeters will offer full paint decontamination and machine polishing including swirl removal and in some cases paint correction and charge accordingly.

I'm guessing you aren't a pro valeter or a pro detailer since you clearly have no idea about the commercial side of the industry.

For the record, I'm a pro detailer who does valeting when it suits my customer's needs. Paint decontamination is a key differentiator in my premium valet. I won't do trade work. When I'm valeting I do it to a very high standard within the scope of the service I have advertised and agreed upon with the customer.

Valeting isn't a low quality job, it just has a different objective to detailing.


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> but you said you didnt do the extra bits not me, and my meaning is a detailer couldn't of left them bits. it would give them nightmares if they left them.*
> firstly i dont look down on anyone who is a valeter, my meaning was even though you do work to a high standered you see your self as just a valeter and not a valeter/detailer


Just to be clear, the example I gave about not doing those extra bits was made up, just to show that just because I had machine polished a car to a perfect finish, I had not detailed it - which was in response to



cheekymonkey said:


> well if your using clay and doing proper machine polishing down to a excellent finish and not just a quick going over leaving holograms etc then your detailing not valeting:thumb:





cheekymonkey said:


> you may be a valeter but you did a detail :thumb:


These comments.

As I said, of course If a customer was having their paintwork corrected, I would clean all through the wheels, polish the exhausts, clean panel gaps etc etc

At the end of all this though, I would still have valeted both vehicles, just one in more detail than the other.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Superspec said:


> Answer the question. Are you a pro valeter or a pro detailer?
> 
> Dealers pay peanuts. Most valeters won't decontaminate paint for what they pay although some dealers will expect a very basic machine polish. But, dealers aren't the only customers and a lot of valeters wont work for dealers because they don't pay well. Many valeters will offer full paint decontamination and machine polishing including swirl removal and in some cases paint correction and charge accordingly.
> 
> ...


your right man not a valeter or detailer o sorry i mean been in the business for 22 years mate. people who do trade work are also know as valeters but you know that already i would of thought infact the major part of valeting is done in the trade but again you should no that knowing all about the commercial side of the industry:thumb:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Azonto said:


> Just to be clear, the example I gave about not doing those extra bits was made up, just to show that just because I had machine polished a car to a perfect finish, I had not detailed it - which was in response to
> 
> These comments.
> 
> ...


why on earth do you need to lie theres no need for it. If you lied about that makes me wonder what else your lieing about, i mean are you really a valeter or is that a lie?
If you are a valeter and you do all the extras like a detailer does but you still want to be called a valeter, can you explane why your on a DETAILING forum


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

o i still stand by what i said if you are machine polishing down to a perfect finish your detailing. most valeters have never used a machine.


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

And I still stand by what I said that, as a valeter who is able to machine via rotary or DA down to a perfect finish, I am not a detailer, simply a valeter who can machine polish.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Azonto said:


> And I still stand by what I said that, as a valeter who is able to machine via rotary or DA down to a perfect finish, I am not a detailer, simply a valeter who can machine polish.


well like i said can you explane why your on a detailing forum if that is your thoughts


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> your right man not a valeter or detailer o sorry i mean been in the business for 22 years mate. people who do trade work are also know as valeters but you know that already i would of thought infact the major part of valeting is done in the trade but again you should no that knowing all about the commercial side of the industry:thumb:


Are you just being stupid on purpose? As with every argument you make, in whatever thread you are participating in, you choose the little bit of a comment that suits you and ignore the rest in it's entirety.

Of course people who do dealer prep are valeters, whether they are employed by the dealer or self employed, they are valeters.

I'd dispute that the majority of work done by valeters is dealer based, it just doesn't pay enough, irrespective of the volume they generate. I guess most valeters will do some dealer prep but I'd doubt a decent valeter would allow that to form the majority of his business model. You'd just be a busy fool if you did.

So 22 years in the industry then. You are remarkably naive if that's true.


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> o i still stand by what i said if you are machine polishing down to a perfect finish your detailing. *most valeters have never used a machine*.


Where do you get these statistics from? Every valeter I know, and I know a lot, uses at least a DA.

Detailing is so much more than paint correction. That in itself isn't detailing. It's quality machine polishing.


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> why on earth do you need to lie theres no need for it. If you lied about that makes me wonder what else your lieing about, i mean are you really a valeter or is that a lie?
> If you are a valeter and you do all the extras like a detailer does but you still want to be called a valeter, can you explane why your on a DETAILING forum


He can call himself what he likes. Shirley if it suits him. It doesn't change what he delivers for his customer.

And why shouldn't he be on a detailing forum? You are.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Superspec said:


> Are you just being stupid on purpose? As with every argument you make, in whatever thread you are participating in, you choose the little bit of a comment that suits you and ignore the rest in it's entirety.
> 
> Of course people who do dealer prep are valeters, whether they are employed by the dealer or self employed, they are valeters.
> 
> ...


it take a lot of practice and dedication to be this stupid:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
if you dont like other peoples views thats your problem not mine. seeing as you are in the trade i would of thought you would know there are more vehicles valeted in the trade on a daily bases then any other. naive:lol: thats so funny mate i'm not the one who doesn't realize the major of valeting is dealer/trade work now thats naive mate


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Superspec said:


> He can call himself what he likes. Shirley if it suits him. It doesn't change what he delivers for his customer.
> 
> And why shouldn't he be on a detailing forum? You are.


is his second name temple :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
i'm on here because i'm into detailing, and my question is based on what he says, he doesn't recognize detailing only valeting, so whats he doing on a detailing forum straight forward question i would of thought:thumb:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Superspec said:


> Where do you get these statistics from? Every valeter I know, and I know a lot, uses at least a DA.
> 
> Detailing is so much more than paint correction. That in itself isn't detailing. It's quality machine polishing.


OMG majority of valeters are in the motor trade they dont use them in the motor trade, its a quick going over with a AIO, i never said paint correction was detailing. what i said was it is machine polishing to a perfect finish or maybe i could put it another way erm i know quality machine polishing think thats the same as i said
if your going to criticise what i say at least get it right mate:thumb:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Azonto said:


> Sorry I disagree
> 
> Edit;
> And as a valeter, I have no problem with using clay and my machine polishers when requested to do so by a customer who wishes for that level of work to be carried out.


theres another difference you will clay and machine when requested, A detailer will always include these as part of the job. they dont need to be asked to do so its part of a detail


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Superspec said:


> Are you just being stupid on purpose? As with every argument you make, *in whatever thread you are participating in,* you choose the little bit of a comment that suits you and ignore the rest in it's entirety.
> 
> OMG you still p*ssed at me with the winter tyre thread aren't you :lol::lol::lol::lol:.
> you had your opinion and i had mine, your opinion is your opinion and has no bearing on me, life go's on. If you going to take it to hart because someone else has a different opinion to you then thats your problem, get over it mate.
> cheers the driving god :driver: :car: :lol::lol: :wave:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Superspec said:


> *Where do you get these statistics from?* Every valeter I know, and I know a lot, uses at least a DA.
> 
> Do you realize how many valeters some dealers/trade get through, they get young 17/18 year olds pay them next to nothing then they quit after a few weeks/months. some places can get through up to 10 a year as there moto is if this lad doesnt do it theres plenty more out there that will. how many of these do you think used a machine, none.
> You are just looking at it from how you work not valeting as a hole. I would assume the valeters you know work the same way you do.


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## ottostein (Sep 11, 2012)

This is getting a bit out of hand really. Cheeky i dont believe there is a difference between a valeter and a detailer. Just because a full valet takes 2 hrs and a de-con paint perfection and all that jazz takes anywhere from a few hours to a few days in the end its all valeting.

No one who starts out in the business of extreme detailing verging on OCD clean just jumps into the deep end, they would all come first as a valeter, and anyone who does in a complete fool in my eyes. Walk before you run and all that.

Jump back to the OP's question, Yes i would explain it to a customer the difference between a valet and a detail if they enquired about it. But if they just want a clean car then thats their choice. I would of course advise them if i thought that the paintwork would benifit from a machine polish but at the end of the day its not fitting in your needs, its about the customer, So answer all questions in laymans terms, no point in divulging with for example menz po 1433 *just an example, not a new fangled polish there releasing lol*


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Do you want it washed
Do you want it clean
Do you want it VERY clean and shiny


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Ones is American and one is English. Detailing is just a buzz word for cleaning, it's been adopted from our american cousins for some reason, it had never been heard of over here really until about 15 years ago. Valeting is just the same imho and to tar all valeters as hologram/buffer trail inflicting slap dash merchants is unfair - lets be honest some of the amateurs on here produce better work than the "pros".


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## Azonto (Jul 22, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> well like i said can you explane why your on a detailing forum if that is your thoughts


Adding comments like this takes this past the point of debate.

You've said yourself you're entitled to your own views, as am I but to ask someone in the vehicle cleaning industry why they are on a forum on the subject of cleaning vehicles is absurd and is no longer a debate.


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

i thought this may chill the mood :lol:


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## absolute (Jan 19, 2010)

For god sake! There are some fundamental differences, I thought we all knew this by now.

Do we need pictures?

Detailer









Valeter









Other points to note,

The be a detailer

if your a detailer you'll need to learn at least 100 polish and wax including the #00's

You'll need a good jack for taking all the wheels off to clay them.

You will need a quirky name, at very least, something french or Italian "le shine de italia" or "voiture couture" perhaps.

Snow foam tested on babies

Price range from £80 for a bespoke detail wash to a £9000 83 hour all over refine and enhance with extra clay.

To be a Valeter;

Trainers that you can't wear out any more. Well worn cognac tan riggers will suffice if necessary.

Single bucket method with sponge or brush.

Fluffy or simple name "soapy bubbles" or "Simons hot foam wash"

Crates of ****pit shine

Price range from £3 for wash and wax (ph mental) to the £40 full bhoona. (Includes paper mats and seat covers)


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Azonto said:


> Adding comments like this takes this past the point of debate.
> 
> You've said yourself you're entitled to your own views, as am I but to ask someone in the vehicle cleaning industry why they are on a forum on the subject of cleaning vehicles is absurd and is no longer a debate.


my point being you fail/wont recognize there is a difference between valeting and detailing but come on this site, a detailing site .


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## Greboth (May 14, 2012)

I haven't read the previous 8 pages so someone else may have said it likes this. In my head I have always had it in my head as the cheapo £3 car washes is use whatever they have available whereas a valeter will thoroughly clean inside and out using varying products to achieve a good clean. Whereas a detailer will valet a car but also polish, wax, trim protect etc.


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## james vti-s (Aug 9, 2011)

Detailing is confusing to explain cause its the same as valeting
*CLEANING* and *POLISHING PAINT*
its what the customer wants that's matters and repetition

who wants to open a forum called valetingworld.co.uk


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

bigmc said:


> Ones is American and one is English. Detailing is just a buzz word for cleaning, it's been adopted from our american cousins for some reason, it had never been heard of over here really until about 15 years ago. Valeting is just the same imho and to tar all valeters as hologram/buffer trail inflicting slap dash merchants is unfair - lets be honest some of the amateurs on here produce better work than the "pros".


there is a difference between the 2 a valeter works to a price where as a detailer prices his work. the big problem imho is over the last 2/3 years this site has become more about valeting, people have lost the difference between the 2 
people are using different methods now, instead of machining people are using fillers. to many are now looking for a short cut and a quick fix. thats not detailing imho


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## srod (Dec 31, 2010)

hehe, I love these threads. 

There will never be 100% agreement on this question and, well, what difference does it really make? I count myself as a valeter, and a bloody good one to boot ( ) and rarely spend less than 5 hours on a full valet. The further I go (in terms of experience etc.) then the more detailed my valets become, but rarely give any thought to whether I am a 'valeter' or a 'detailer' as it just doesn't seem to matter. I know that my reputation is growing as is my base of regular customers and that is all that really matters, that and the fact that I enjoy what I do. 

Sure I want to do more machine polishing and the like, but am happy at the moment offering only very light correction as my experience currently doesn't allow me to be more confident in this department. This will change over time, however, and whether others then choose to call me a detailer or not will be of little concern to me. They can call me whatever they like (and many do!) and I will continue doing what I do.


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## dcj (Apr 17, 2009)

cheekymonkey said:


> my point being you fail/wont recognize there is a difference between valeting and detailing but come on this site, a detailing site .


I'm a valeter who a few years ago typed into Google "valeting forum" and guess what came top. 
Theres a lot of people on here who think they're detailers because they own 2 buckets a mitt,some posh wax and a DA. Doesn't seem to matter that they don't have a ****ing clue how to use them as long they keep spending the money.


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## james vti-s (Aug 9, 2011)

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_detailing*

*Auto detailing (UK: Car valeting)*


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

I had to define Valeting & Detailing to Insurers when setting up schemes.

My take on it was that Professional Valeters provide quality services using good methods and this can include claying, polishing (either by hand or machine) and waxing.

I described Detailing as the next step up from this, whereby the aim is to achieve an "as new" or sometimes even better than new finish, with full paint correction, cotton buds in all the nooks and crannies and so on.

Although bear in mind there are some Valeters out there who provide what we perceive as "detailing" as part of their valeting schedule of options, yet on the other hand there are Detailers that also provide a wash and wax as part of their schedule of services.

It's all words really, as far as i know there is no defining split or category of work, i think what counts at the end of the day is doing a quality job with quality products where the end results speak for themselves, whether you decide to call it a valet or a detail is up to you.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Sure this may cause a stir but here goes...

There is so much misinterpretation within this industry in general (detailing/valeting/carecare etc)

First ever dabble with clay for me was back in 1997. It wassnt a very well known material at the time and was mainly aimed for overspray removal only. Who came up with the idea of using it to remove contaminants from paintwork? 
Someone who tried it and found it worked.
Lot of the material etc within both sectors is the same only add it into a detailing categories and up goes the costing.

Years back, the main ingredients for correction generally was Farecla G3 G6 G10 and 3M finnesse it with 2 grades of pad on single speed rotary. When variable speed came out, all including myself were bewildered by the speed control. Fast forward some years on and the understanding is that its the way a polisher is and without it, you simply cannot do the job correctly.

What is detailing?

Who knows now! Seems that it is more so aimed at buying a few boutique branded materials, wooly wash mitts and dawdling about on the job makes a detailer. This is of course imo and my take on what has become in the past 2-3 years.

Hitting another angle on detailing, its more down to flamboyant photography, flashing some latest materials being used and aiming any lighting away from the vehicle giving a completely illusive portrayal of what is actually being done or has been done. Art of illusion is becoming the key to success within this the trade.

What makes a detailer?

A detailer becomes from many walks of life. We all have to have some level of obsessive nature to become one imo.
Some come from paint background where by one would hope they understand paint, how it works, lives and can be manipulated best.
Others come from valeting, me included. I feel one of the better ways to become as its all too easy to clean a clean car. Get a right royal snotter put in front of you and that separates the men from the boys being able to create a serious transition of minger to blinger without forgetting all the finer nitty gritty things such as sun visors, seat belt pillars, head lining, pedals and so on.
The last is those whom cherish there own car, started doing friends and family cars and then ventured into the trade.No immediate training as such where as the latter 2 both have some forms of training.

There can be good and bad in all trades be it detailer, valeter or electrician.

Back on track with the OP's question. If your work stands out, potential clients get intrigued. The hard part is separating the costings and breaking down why a full valet is say £100 and a protection detail with interior valet is £200. Understanding you overhead absorption rates will help depict how you portray the difference to potential clients.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

dcj said:


> I'm a valeter who a few years ago typed into Google "valeting forum" and guess what came top.
> Theres a lot of people on here who think they're detailers because they own 2 buckets a mitt,some posh wax and a DA. Doesn't seem to matter that they don't have a ****ing clue how to use them as long they keep spending the money.


there is so much more to detailing then what you have documented, but will agree there are some who call them selfs detailers dont have a clue


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

james vti-s said:


> Detailing is confusing to explain cause its the same as valeting
> *CLEANING* and *POLISHING PAINT*
> its what the customer wants that's matters and repetition
> 
> who wants to open a forum called valetingworld.co.uk


not many valeters did machine polishing years ago, most only do it now as theve jumped on the detailing wagon


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

cheekymonkey said:


> not many valeters did machine polishing years ago, most only do it now as theve jumped on the detailing wagon


A good 15 years back, i had a number of local premises based "valeters" on my books. Most have packed up now, a couple are still going.

Whilst they may have used TFR as a pre wash and washed a car down with a soft brush at the time, they were all using rotarys (Sealey ones from memory) and polishing compounds as part of the process.

Perhaps less so on the mobile side of things, but it was certainly a common practice for those with units.


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## srod (Dec 31, 2010)

cheekymonkey said:


> not many valeters did machine polishing years ago, most only do it now as theve jumped on the detailing wagon


Never realised that using a polisher was the exclusive domain of any particular group. I guess that, on that score, anyone who uses a hammer has jumped on the carpenters bandwagon!

If there really is such a difference between a valeter and a detailer, then why would one not strive to become the other if that is the way he/she felt?


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

Azonto said:


> Without wanting to open this can of worms again, disagree with valeting being basic washing.
> 
> Personally I'd say valeting is the level of cleaning of vehicles that is widely accepted by the general public and detailing is an extensive niche that goes above and beyond valeting.


that is basically what i meant - most people will generally know a valet to be a 'quick wash'...


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

srod said:


> Never realised that using a polisher was the exclusive domain of any particular group. I guess that, on that score, anyone who uses a hammer has jumped on the carpenters bandwagon!
> 
> If there really is such a difference between a valeter and a detailer, then why would one not strive to become the other if that is the way he/she felt?


:lol::lol:
i never said it was exclusive to detailers, detailers were using the polisher before it became a part of valeting, now you get a lot of valeters using a polisher, same as clay a valeter wouldn't of dreamed of using clay 5 year ago but do now.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Shiny said:


> A good 15 years back, i had a number of local premises based "valeters" on my books. Most have packed up now, a couple are still going.
> 
> Whilst they may have used TFR as a pre wash and washed a car down with a soft brush at the time, they were all using rotarys (Sealey ones from memory) and polishing compounds as part of the process.
> 
> Perhaps less so on the mobile side of things, but it was certainly a common practice for those with units.


some may of majority was done by hand 15 years ago, machine polishing was an optional extra in them days, and the finish was far from perfect. my first rotary was a sealey twin speed fast and faster:lol::lol:


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## srod (Dec 31, 2010)

Call it a natural progression then for those wishing to progress/expand rather than simply jumping on a bandwagon. Can't blame someone for wanting to make use of such a machine once they see what it can do (in the right hands of course!)


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

srod said:


> Never realised that using a polisher was the exclusive domain of any particular group. I guess that, on that score, anyone who uses a hammer has jumped on the carpenters bandwagon!
> 
> If there really is such a difference between a valeter and a detailer, then why would one not strive to become the other if that is the way he/she felt?


Oi!,less of the carpenters analogy..Lol,(only joking mate)


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

srod said:


> Call it a natural progression then for those wishing to progress/expand rather than simply jumping on a bandwagon. Can't blame someone for wanting to make use of such a machine once they see what it can do (in the right hands of course!)


bandwagon' probably the wrong word. i suppose progressions a better word. I suppose detailing is like the merc s class is to motors, it has what other cars will have in a few years.


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