# Scholl VS soft paint......



## ROMEYR32 (Mar 27, 2011)

Hi,

Has anyone tried the scholl products on soft paint? Ive got a Civic type R to do soon and havent used it yet on a softie. I was thinking S40?? Any tips please?

Thanks

Dan


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## Magic Detail (Jul 25, 2010)

Yeah, S40 is good stuff mate and works well. I'd go with a polishing pad rather than a finishing pad so you get that little bit more cut - you shouldn't induce any buffer trails with good technique. Use a DA if you're struggling to finish (though I really doubt you will be with that combo!!!).


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## ROMEYR32 (Mar 27, 2011)

Hi Mate, Ive got S40 but not used it yet and the spider sandwich pads from Scholl. I was thinking about using it with the orange pads as they dont recommend using it with really soft pads?


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## Magic Detail (Jul 25, 2010)

I don't use Scholl pads mate, so can't say if the sandwich pad will work or not - you're best asking Beau Technique that question as he uses the Scholl range. I personally use Lake Country Hydro-Tech and Gloss-it pads!


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

only ever had an issue once with Scholl and soft paint and that was on a Range Rover door, done many a subaru as well as other jap cars and others with soft paint with no issues....depending on what you want to achieve depends on the combo you use....


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## ROMEYR32 (Mar 27, 2011)

Thanks again Russ, ive seen your pics. Was it S17 you used with the white and black pad?


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

yes mate as always....


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## Kokopelli (Sep 18, 2009)

Black-White Sandwich is sold as a one-pad-one-step wonder with S3 Gold. It all depends on the pressure applied I udnerstand. So any special hints using that sandwich pad with S17+ ? Or does it do its magic all by itself? 

I see EliteCarCare stocking Scholl Polishes as by today. I guess I'll grab a 250ml bottle of S17+ and S3 Gold right away :thumb:

I know I start to annoy with my questions. But, you costed me a good £100 already, Russ


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Last jap painted vehicle I did was a scoob. Used 3M yellow pads and S40. Very soft paint and a pain to work with without a more oiler polish. You will find that pads need changing frequently as there is a 100% chance of hologramming due to the dead polish and new polish conflicting. I tend to use a pad per panel with whatever im doing to save any issues tbh.


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

I would go with menz RD if what you need is less cut,youll get more gloss than s40 and a easier work,with LC hydro tech ,go once with the polishing pad,and again with the finishing pad[crimson],youll get an amazing result.


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

got to disagree mate...Menz is not a patch on Scholl...and as for the gloss look the Rav 4 in the studio i did was refined with S40 on Scholl orange...


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## ROMEYR32 (Mar 27, 2011)

As it says on the side of the bottle S40 gloss level is extreme :thumb: Tried it on our black golf it is awesome.


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

I find that S40 and PO85RD/RE5 give the same amount of gloss - very high. In the end its all about flavour.


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## ROMEYR32 (Mar 27, 2011)

Reflectology said:


> got to disagree mate...Menz is not a patch on Scholl...and as for the gloss look the Rav 4 in the studio i did was refined with S40 on Scholl orange...


Have you got the link mate to the RAV 4?


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=222611


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## ROMEYR32 (Mar 27, 2011)

Reflectology said:


> got to disagree mate...Menz is not a patch on Scholl...and as for the gloss look the Rav 4 in the studio i did was refined with S40 on Scholl orange...


Holy  thats unbelievable!! Cracking turnaround mate, thats prob the worst ive seen! Love these write ups.


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## Paul N (May 4, 2011)

is Scholl non diminishing? sorry if its been mentioned before


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

_S17+ is a silicone-free multipurpose compound for quick and easy preparation of freshly painted or scratched and badly weathered paintwork. Intelligent microscopic abrasive particles based on aluminium oxide increase speed (cut) significantly and guarantee a brilliant high gloss finish. Suitable for conventional and scratch-resistant paintwork. Cut intensity and gloss level can be regulated by using different polishing pads. Minimal dust production. Maximum cut. Optimal anti-hologram properties. For light to heavily scratched paints. Can be applied by machine or by hand. Apply sparingly - a little goes a long way._

It has a short running time which would signify diminishing and sometimes requires number of hits to achieve the results your after depending on the level of defects your tackling and it finishes down very well on its own in the right hands.


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## Paul N (May 4, 2011)

for example take menzerna ff3000/final finish has a long work time is scholl half, quarter of that. The reason I ask is that Rav 4 in 8 hours is unbelievably quick


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

that Rav was quick and about as quick as it gets but lets not forget the polish works fast but the it has to have some motivation behind it, I knew i had to get that done in those hrs as it was out of there on Sunday morning, I had no option thing is i did draft the missus in for a couple of hrs for a little bit of machine work and the final tidy up otherwise it would have been longer....


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## Paul N (May 4, 2011)

just thought it was quick if I was using menz for example think the polish stage alone would be 8 hours fantastic job and shows in the right hands the flexability of scholl, need to try it at some point


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

It does work very well. Once youve cracked how it works and what pad produces what levels your after, it just fits. Its carried out some major work for me in the past and its a pleasure to use. Like any products though, its all down to gaining experience with it and tuning in to how you and it work best.


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

+1 for the above....had plenty of time with it as Scott has and know what does what with which pad and what doesnt, its this that gives the confidence to say a job can or cant be done in a set time period....


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Still too much cut with s40 and orange pad for my liking with almost no pressure , orange pad is poor for finishing compared to 3m blue and similar based finishing polish. The only failure in a brilliant system that needs addressing in my opinion and why i cant use scholl start to finish.


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

been using it for almost a year Marc and admittedly issues are there until the system is well and truly nailed down but its very rare I will switch polish to finish....maybe 1 in 5 jobs....

Also dont know where you see too much cut from Orange and S40....it does correct slightly but it will, its a medium-fine polishing pad....and as for finishing I guess i must be doing something wrong then when I choose to use it....


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

I agree maybe have a play with some others and you will see it's not the best pad for finishing at all, way too rigid and in soft sweeping curves can leave tell tale signs , I have a video of the correction achieved from top to boron half of a panel, not something I want when Paintwork is borderline and all you want to do is high gloss polish and not remove, have spoken to Olivier about this and he agrees but isn't sure Mr Scholl would like to move away to softer pads, I think he has too because as you say 20% of your corrections your moving away and you shouldn't be, you should be using the system all the time full stop. I'll post the video once uploaded.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

This is my concern with scholl S40 and the dedicated pad as shown in this video , apart from soft paintwork having issues on sweeping curves with the rigid pad its the correction it achieves from machine weight only as shown below. This was a Bentley Continental GT and although the result of the car was stunning i couldnt use the orange pad as it just wouldnt give the desired result on this paintwork , i switched to a 3m waffle which worked superbly even if a soft pad and corrected what the orange put in. And thats my issue with it , i would like a product like ultrafina and blue waffle that if the paintwork is showing 80 microns i can have faith that it will high gloss polish and remain 80 microns.
Results and testing are what matter , not instructions.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Thats why I opt for the 3M pads over Scholl for a lot of work tbh Marc. Im sure they know what they are doing as its there own brand but with the fact it being a finishing polish, the results should be razor sharp with no pad marring which even before trialing S40 along side the orange pad, the logic wasnt logical if that makes sense.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Beau Technique said:


> Thats why I opt for the 3M pads over Scholl for a lot of work tbh Marc. Im sure they know what they are doing as its there own brand but with the fact it being a finishing polish, the results should be razor sharp with no pad marring which even before trialing S40 along side the orange pad, the logic wasnt logical if that makes sense.


yes exactly , im not querying the product its ace , its the system that surprises me , i dont understand how a pad that is so hard (and it is) can work in soft curves without marring which it does yes they state do not use the soft black pad which incidently i got better results from and the polish did as it should.

This is the reflection and depth i achieved from s40 on the paintwork , this was only an enhancement something i rarely do but i only had a day and the result was satisfactory for the time put in.










and blown up


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

S40 gives such cripness that ive never seen before. Very sharp clarity. I personally have never gt on with the black waffles and they along with spautopia wool pads were recommended to me. The foams structure is still to harsh for finishing personally, again, ergo the 3M pads with how the pours and foam structure are coupled with the forgiving nature, they work for me perfectly albeit on the odd troublesome paint types.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

I agree....


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## ROMEYR32 (Mar 27, 2011)

Heavenly said:


> yes exactly , im not querying the product its ace , its the system that surprises me , i dont understand how a pad that is so hard (and it is) can work in soft curves without marring which it does yes they state do not use the soft black pad which incidently i got better results from and the polish did as it should.
> 
> This is the reflection and depth i achieved from s40 on the paintwork , this was only an enhancement something i rarely do but i only had a day and the result was satisfactory for the time put in.
> 
> ...


Hi marc,

So this finish was achieved with the S40 and the blue 3m?

Thanks

Dan


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Yes Dan it was, I really need to start posting in the studio again , the full video is on my HeavenlyDetail YouTube channel already about a month ago, I just haven't posted on here.


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

I have just completed a Mazda RX8....in some places only 49 microns on the roof, corrected with Scholl Orange and S40 on DA, I then went over it with Scholl S17 and Farecla black finishing pad....

the result was a loss of only one micron, the polish is intelligent but as some have said its the pad variation that is slightly baffling, but in certain circumstances a little knowledge goes a long way, the paint was thin all over the motor with the exception of a few painted panels....the choice of machine can sometimes help in these situations....


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Yep that may be the case Russ but all were doing is skirting around the issue which is simply s40 and their dedicated finishing pad which they have highlighted to work together with is too aggressive with zero pressure, we can smoke and mirrors but it's a fact.
I don't want to use a DA or S17 I personally want to pick up a finishing pad and polish and do exactly that! You are right it is very baffling.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Patience is a virtue. There is something in the pipeline which will be coming along once made up and sent out for testing. I have stated various key factors of the pad / polish combinations and what is working and not working so well for paint correction and final finishing. The end result is a potential new pad being worked on.:thumb:


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

That is what is required because all we are doing and Russ has highlighted above is compensating for not being able to pick up a suitable Scholl pad and polish to finish without removing anything, we certainly can't deny what a great sharp finish it gives , look forward to this.


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

They did have a white finishing pad that sat between the orange and black waffle but seems not to be available, I have asked Olivier about this pad but awaiting an answer....


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

I think where I struggle Russ is to understand how a hard foam pad can ever be gentle on soft curved Paintwork like a 3m blue waffle can?
I don't understand the logic, flat panels great, curved not so...


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

Great thread Russ Scott & Marc!

Nice to see your workings out so to speak!

We normally only see the answers so the workings are good to see.

I like the sound of this S40! So its like an ultrafina type where refinement is all that is needed and not full on corrections so it would be used on newish paint that has very little imperfections and something that needs a quick turn around?


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## ROMEYR32 (Mar 27, 2011)

Heavenly said:


> I think where I struggle Russ is to understand how a hard foam pad can ever be gentle on soft curved Paintwork like a 3m blue waffle can?
> I don't understand the logic, flat panels great, curved not so...


Im only a small fish in a big ocean on this guys, only been machine polishing for 6 months but a keen detailer for years. I also found the orange pad a little firm when going over the curves on wheel arches etc. I ended up switching to a CG pad with good results. Really loving the S17! Thanks for all your comments and keep posting your write ups!

Dan.


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

Heavenly said:


> I think where I struggle Russ is to understand how a hard foam pad can ever be gentle on soft curved Paintwork like a 3m blue waffle can?
> I don't understand the logic, flat panels great, curved not so...


Just like the RX8 great on the flat but the wings and arches were a little tricky, the black waffle works with S30 and S40 but once it gets loaded it starts hold "un-burnt fuel" so to speak and ends up just becoming a huge clump of foam rendered pretty much useless....


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

moosh said:


> Great thread Russ Scott & Marc!
> 
> Nice to see your workings out so to speak!
> 
> ...


In a nutshell, yes. It can clog the pad after a time of use as Russ has already mentioned above with regards to other polishes with the black waffle ergo why I use a pad per panel to get the best from the product every time. S40 works very effectively on jap paints and can finish down with a real crisp look worked in conjunction with the correct pad combination.


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