# Alternative Random Orbital Polishers



## Clean-my-sxi

Seeing as they are random orbit they should be safe especially on a low speed, been speaking to Viper who used one and says he has had good results with one and is good for a begginer, i did think abou the silverline rotary but to be honnest im a bit worried about using a rotary as it seems as though they need alot of practice to use.

Power input 450w
No load speed 4000 - 12000rpm
Disc size 125mm

Variable speed with lock on switch. Dust extraction facility with dust bag. Hook and loop base for quick disc change and adjustable side handle.


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## Clean-my-sxi

£19.99 is exactly my point, im only looking to do minor paint correction in the future maybe, but want something to help remove scratches instead of doing it by hand.

Not keen on getting a silverline rotary as i dont have the time to put in the practice to use it properly. This is random orbit so its safe for begginers. Im not sure if you can put smaller backing plates on but for the amount im gonna use it i mite not even need them.


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## MidlandsCarCare

Would be good for getting the best out of products like Lime Prime or SRP, but does it have enough grunt to break down 'proper' polishes and compounds?


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## swordjo

By the looks of it ,it's got the same sort of grunt as the PC/G220 but I dunno what the throw would be like?


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## MidlandsCarCare

Could be a bit of a bargain then... I'll buy one to try - where can I buy it from?


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## swordjo

http://www.transtools.co.uk/store/p...9670-hi-spec-125mm-random-orbital-sander.html


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## PugIain

That image is from toolstation.Maybe try there?


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## MidlandsCarCare

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/n...refview=search&ts=1220194017921&isSearch=true

£20 from B&Q...


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## farcrygamer

That machine should sort out minor corection job with no problems:thumb:


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## 3dr

RussZS said:


> http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/n...refview=search&ts=1220194017921&isSearch=true
> 
> £20 from B&Q...


the one in the first post is a silverline orange and has a 3 year guarantee has it not? and is from toolstation.


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## MidlandsCarCare

3dr said:


> the one in the first post is a silverline orange and has a 3 year guarantee has it not? and is from toolstation.


Indeed... just showing that there are alternatives without needing to mail order.


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## 3dr

RussZS said:


> Indeed... just showing that there are alternatives without needing to mail order.


good point :thumb:


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## VIPER

RussZS said:


> Would be good for getting the best out of products like Lime Prime or SRP, but does it have enough grunt to break down 'proper' polishes and compounds?


Yes, it breaks down Poorboys SSR2 with no problems using Serious Performance brand blue polishing and red finishing pads.

And it's relatively small - I've used mine with one hand (although it's easier with 2 using the adjustable side handle). Also no problems with vibration either - when I was using it on the Puma I was at it all day and had no issues with it making my hands hurt afterwards.

Oh, that one in the B&Q link I checked out before buying the Silverline one and it felt a bit bit and heavy in comparison, plus as has been mentioned the Silverline comes with a 3 year manufacturers warranty. I have to say although I've done a few cars with it, it does feel solid and as though it will last and last.


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## ayrtonsenna

just nipped out to B&Q to buy the one in the above link to try out and see if it will be any good?. for £20 i dont mind if its pants


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## Hallzer

Hi Folks, 
Where can you get pads to fit the Silverline 589670 Hi-Spec 125mm Random Orbital Sander and what kind of pads would be best to buy.

Hallzer


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## Ducky

£20 bucks!!! I wasn't aware of that, worth a shot at that price. :thumb:


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## lethbridge

This looks tempting as I have been considering a g220 for a while but will only do a couple of cars so found it hard to justify £200 but surely this has got to be worth a try? What would the main advantages of a g220 be over this machine? I wouldn't need great paint protection as my car is only 6 weeks old


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## VIPER

lethbridge said:


> This looks tempting as I have been considering a g220 for a while but will only do a couple of cars so found it hard to justify £200 but surely this has got to be worth a try? What would the main advantages of a g220 be over this machine? I wouldn't need great paint protection as my car is only 6 weeks old


The specialist detailing machines have a removable velcro backing plate allowing the fitment of a smaller one to facilitate the use of spot pads for tight areas. They also have a slightly larger offset or throw to the orbit action which will help to break down polishes quicker. Having said that my Silverline works SSR2 down to LSP level with no problems. Other polishes would be fine but might require more time for the machine to break down the abrasive content. If your car doesn't require a lot of correction and / or doesn't have a lot of tight corners & angles etc. and you can get away with 5 or 6 inch pads then they are worth a look. As I've said, I'm perfectly happy with mine. If I have a criticism then it's only that it's a bit on the noisy side, but certainly nothing that uncomfortable in use


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## mike b

So you use normal 6" pads designed for the PC style machines?? How do they affix? direct to the machine?

Sorry, just a few points i think need clearing up


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## VIPER

mike b said:


> So you use normal 6" pads designed for the PC style machines?? How do they affix? direct to the machine?
> 
> Sorry, just a few points i think need clearing up


Yes, they just stick to the velco plate in the same way as any polisher. I have carefully trimmed down my 6" pads to 5" and they seem to work better in the fact that I can put as much pressure on as I want without it bogging down and stopping. It worked okay before, but there were a few places on the car that I just couldn't quite fit the 6" pad, so cheapskate that I am :lol: rather than buy some 5" pads, I just carefully trimmed an inch off the 6" ones (they are 2" thick though so the machine's backing plate is well aways from the surface). Afterwards I noticed that the pad rotated faster under load and I was able to apply a little more pressure when it was needed.


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## mike b

Thanks Pit Viper, it seems a good alternative for cheap polishing, and small correction that utilises the proper sponge style pads .


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## VIPER

mike b said:


> Thanks Pit Viper, it seems a good alternative for cheap polishing, and small correction that utilises the proper sponge style pads .


No Prob, Mike  I keep meaning to take some pics of it the next time I use it, but I'm out of SSR2 at the moment (waiting until I've got a few more things to order for the combined postage ). It will tackle minor swirling on most paints no problem and I've even got some deeper RDSs out with the harder pads.


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## lethbridge

Thanks Pit Viper for your response, very useful and may persuade me away from a 
G220 especially for what I need it for as this may be all that is required, some pictures of what you have achieved would be great if you get a chance. Would the menz sample pack work well with this machine with megs pads or the ones you have used?

Thanks again


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## diesel_dog

Is this a similar sort of thing?? http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9806485&fh_view_size=6&fh_start_index=6&fh_eds=%3f&fh_maxdisplaynrvalues_featuresBrand=-1&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB%2fcategories%3c%7b10082%7d%2fcategories%3c%7b10084%7d%2fcategories%3c%7b9181028%7d%2fspecificationsSpecificProductType%3drandom_orbit_sanders&fh_refview=lister&ts=1220462566716&isSearch=false


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## mike b

diesel_dog said:


> Is this a similar sort of thing?? http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9806485&fh_view_size=6&fh_start_index=6&fh_eds=%3f&fh_maxdisplaynrvalues_featuresBrand=-1&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB%2fcategories%3c%7b10082%7d%2fcategories%3c%7b10084%7d%2fcategories%3c%7b9181028%7d%2fspecificationsSpecificProductType%3drandom_orbit_sanders&fh_refview=lister&ts=1220462566716&isSearch=false


That machine you linked to there was mentioned o page 2. Pit viper said it felt cheaper and had less warranty.


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## noop

4000 - 12000rpm isn't that too much RPM? I know its the no load speed but on the panel would that then slow down to PC/udm/g220 speeds?


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## Clean-my-sxi

A G220 revs from 3400 to 6900, so at low settings the orbital sander will be pretty much the same


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## VIPER

Yes, it will be fine - I only use mine on speeds 1-3 (which should roughly keep it within the speed range of a G220) and under load on the panel it behaves just like other detailing machines. I've even used it on my XR2 which has quite soft paint and it worked fine.


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## _daveR

Well, I've just ordered one from transtools. For £25 delivered it's worth a go. 

I'm going to have to go and buy myself a scrap panel from the scrappy on Saturday now.


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## GeeJay

I've ordered one too, for £20 it's got to be worth something. Also got some pads from SP so will hopefully get some dry weather to try it out at the weekend. Will post results 

G


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## VIPER

_daveR said:


> Well, I've just ordered one from transtools. For £25 delivered it's worth a go.
> 
> I'm going to have to go and buy myself a scrap panel from the scrappy on Saturday now.





GeeJay said:


> I've ordered one too, for £20 it's got to be worth something. Also got some pads from SP so will hopefully get some dry weather to try it out at the weekend. Will post results
> 
> G


If either of you (or anyone else who has one on order) want any info or help with these, please feel free to PM me and I'll try and assist if I can


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## _daveR

Cheers Pit Viper (Sorry! I don't know your name!)

I've ordered some #80 & #83 along with a Megs finishing and polishing pad to try. I have some SSR2 already which I've had pretty good results from by hand so will be keen to see how it works on this.

Any general tips on using the silverline would be good? If I have any specifics once I have it then I'll drop you a PM.


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## VIPER

_daveR said:


> Cheers Pit Viper (Sorry! I don't know your name!)
> 
> I've ordered some #80 & #83 along with a Megs finishing and polishing pad to try. I have some SSR2 already which I've had pretty good results from by hand so will be keen to see how it works on this.
> 
> Any general tips on using the silverline would be good? If I have any specifics once I have it then I'll drop you a PM.


That is my name (weird 'hippy' parents ) :lol: :lol:

I've only ever used SSR2 with mine so can only comment on how that particular polish works with these. Usage is pretty much the same as any DA machine - I lightly spritz the pad with a bit of QD initially and then put a 'X' of product on the pad and dab it around the are to be worked. I then switch it onto the slowest speed and fairly quicky spead the polish around until it's covered the work area evenly, then I notch it up to 2 or 3 and start working in over lapping lines (alternating in direction - Dave KG's got a great diagram on one of the stickies showing this). I apply moderate pressure to allow the pad to spin at about 1-2 times per second and also move it across the surface at about an inch per second. Worked for sufficient time until the polish has broken down and gone 'clear' looking, then buffed off. You probably know all this already and it's all pretty much standard practice. I can't think of anything specific to this machine that needs to be done any different.


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## GeeJay

Excellent, thanks Pit Viper  Dave KG's DA guide is super comprehensive and covers most DA machines, with techniques  Thanks for your advice regarding this particular machine too 

Can't wait to get it and try out. I'll post some 50/50 shots too 

PS - didn't realise you did the XR2 with this - utterly FANTASTIC results, and what a stunning car


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## VIPER

GeeJay said:


> Excellent, thanks Pit Viper  Dave KG's DA guide is super comprehensive and covers most DA machines, with techniques  Thanks for your advice regarding this particular machine too
> 
> Can't wait to get it and try out. I'll post some 50/50 shots too
> 
> PS - didn't realise you did the XR2 with this - utterly FANTASTIC results, and what a stunning car


Cheers, fella :thumb: I still need to do the lower half of the sides as I've run out of SSR2 and I'm waiting until I've got a few other things to get before I place an order to combine the postage.

One thing I would say is that it seems to work far better with 5" as opposed to 6" pads (spins faster and is able to withstand much heavier pressure without slowing down). I've carefully trimmed my 150 x 50 mm SP pads down to 130 mm diameter and it's so much better. Obviously different pads will perform in different ways and maybe it was just something to do with them being 2" thick? Anyway, works superbly now :thumb:


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## _daveR

GeeJay said:


> Excellent, thanks Pit Viper  Dave KG's DA guide is super comprehensive and covers most DA machines, with techniques  Thanks for your advice regarding this particular machine too
> 
> Can't wait to get it and try out. I'll post some 50/50 shots too
> 
> PS - didn't realise you did the XR2 with this - utterly FANTASTIC results, and what a stunning car


I've had a good read of Dave's guide too. It covers everything you could want to know!

You may want to have a look on YouTube too as there are a lot of videos on how to use a DA. They give a good idea for how fast to move the machine etc.


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## Clean-my-sxi

Pit Viper gave me great info about these also, round of applause is in order.

I feel as though using one of these will be a much safer option then buying the silverline rotary which needs practice to get to grips with.

Im just sorting out which one im gonna buy

The silverline like Pit Viper = £25 with delivery, 3 year warranty
Perkins one form B&Q = £20
MAC one form B&Q = £30 but comes with 2 backing plates and is in a nice case, 3 year warranty


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## GeeJay

ooh...quick question, Pit Viper.

Been looking at a few videos on youtube with Porter Cable polishing, and they tend to recommend setting '3' for spreading polish, and number '5' or '6' for breaking down. Obviously this is machine specific, so could i ask which settings you use on the silverline for each of the above?

Thanks

G


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## GeeJay

Clean-my-sxi said:


> Im just sorting out which one im gonna buy
> 
> The silverline like Pit Viper = £25 with delivery, 3 year warranty
> Perkins one form B&Q = £20
> MAC one form B&Q = £30 but comes with 2 backing plates and is in a nice case, 3 year warranty


Silverline - tried, tested and recommended by Pit Viper
Perkins - Can't see online, is it a rebadged Performance Power one? that's mentioned earlier to not feel as good quality as the Silverline
Mac- if its the one linked below, i see no mention of variable speeds on their site, so be careful

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/n...1220622149860&isSearch=true&selected=products

G


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## VIPER

GeeJay said:


> ooh...quick question, Pit Viper.
> 
> Been looking at a few videos on youtube with Porter Cable polishing, and they tend to recommend setting '3' for spreading polish, and number '5' or '6' for breaking down. Obviously this is machine specific, so could i ask which settings you use on the silverline for each of the above?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> G


Speed 1 for spreading and then 2-3 for the main polishing bit (out of 6). To be perfectly honest though, despite the specs of the machine giving quite a large range 4-12k, there's not a right lot of difference in reality - the machine doesn't seem to make a massive difference in motor noise between the different speeds and in use, it doesn't seem to make much difference - for eg. a few times I've forgot to increase the speed from No.1 and done the whole polishing work on the lowest setting and it made no difference to the outcome.

There's probably very little difference between the 3 machines mentioned tbh. A nice case would be handy for the Silverline one though - it just comes in a box


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## GeeJay

Perfect, now all i need is the polisher =P

Awaiting delivery *patiently* lol


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## Clean-my-sxi

GeeJay said:


> Silverline - tried, tested and recommended by Pit Viper
> Perkins - Can't see online, is it a rebadged Performance Power one? that's mentioned earlier to not feel as good quality as the Silverline
> Mac- if its the one linked below, i see no mention of variable speeds on their site, so be careful
> 
> http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/n...1220622149860&isSearch=true&selected=products
> 
> G


All of them have variable speed, as i have been in store, The MAC one does have a 6" plate but as pitt viper said and i was also thinking a 5" pad would probably serve more areas on the car so the extra £10 for the MAC one may just be a waiste of money if you would prefer the 5" pad.


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## Clean-my-sxi

Also i will have to check but i think the MAC one is designed to use around the 6" plate so th machine itself where the plate is attached is around the same size, this may cause a problem when using the smaller 5" plate and polishing pad.

The silverline and Perkins one, have a 5" plate, but the plate is probably the widest part of the machine.

I hope you understand what i mean


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## VIPER

If it eases off raining a bit I'll run out to the garage and take a couple of pics of the machine with my 'custom trimmed' Serious Performance pads on it :thumb: (don't know how long it will be 'cos I ain't getting a soaking going from the house to the garage :lol: :lol


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## GeeJay

Clean-my-sxi said:


> Also i will have to check but i think the MAC one is designed to use around the 6" plate so th machine itself where the plate is attached is around the same size, this may cause a problem when using the smaller 5" plate and polishing pad.
> 
> The silverline and Perkins one, have a 5" plate, but the plate is probably the widest part of the machine.
> 
> I hope you understand what i mean


that all makes sense :thumb: I think it's a valid arguement about the 5" backing plate, and cutting down of the pad if i'm honest. Then it's down to personal preference of feel/weight/balance. Obviously this is harder wit hthe silverline.

I went in with mike_b as we live close, added in a few paintbrushes (always comes in handy) and so saved on postage.

All i will say is i ordered on weds lunch time, and they still havent been dispatched from TransTools.


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## Clean-my-sxi

When im ready to purchase one i will go back in store and have a good look over the 2 in there.

For me the fact that i live 5 mins from B&Q means i can go and get one on the day and if it breaks, another one is only 5 mins away.

Plus im not in a rush for one so im gonna wait and see if B&Q have a 10% off day or somthing.

The sliverline one though does look a good shape machine to use and very compact.

Pics would be great pitt viper


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## _daveR

GeeJay said:


> All i will say is i ordered on weds lunch time, and they still havent been dispatched from TransTools.


I ordered last night and it changed to "Completed" this morning. The stupid mong who answered the phone couldn't even count let alone tell me if it had been dispatched! 
If my pads and megs turn up tomorrow then I'll go to B&Q and buy one of those so I can try it over the weekend. Then just send the silverline back.


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## ELBOW GREASE

I Say You Get What You Pay For. I Use The Pc. Had Udm Its Broken.


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## VIPER

Clean-my-sxi said:


> When im ready to purchase one i will go back in store and have a good look over the 2 in there.
> 
> For me the fact that i live 5 mins from B&Q means i can go and get one on the day and if it breaks, another one is only 5 mins away.
> 
> Plus im not in a rush for one so im gonna wait and see if B&Q have a 10% off day or somthing.
> 
> The sliverline one though does look a good shape machine to use and very compact.
> 
> Pics would be great pitt viper


Here you go, mate  Showing the Silverline with a slightly trimmed Serious Performance 'red' finishing pad:-


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## lethbridge

will these work ok with the 3M polishing pads and the Menzerna range of polish?, would the pad just fix on to the machine without me buying anything else? sorry, completely new to the machine polishing game but keen to get one! If not the 3M pads how about the Sonus or Megs ones (the Megs ones are more expensive though).

Thanks for any advice.


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## VIPER

lethbridge said:


> will these work ok with the 3M polishing pads and the Menzerna range of polish?, would the pad just fix on to the machine without me buying anything else? sorry, completely new to the machine polishing game but keen to get one! If not the 3M pads how about the Sonus or Megs ones (the Megs ones are more expensive though).
> 
> Thanks for any advice.


To the best of my knowledge, all pads have the felt type material on the back to fix onto the machine so as long as it's got a hook & loop backing plate (which they all have) then it just fits straight on


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## 3dr

the one they've got in halfords comes in a carrying case for £20.


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## Clean-my-sxi

I looked at the one in Halfords as its very similar looking to the Slverline one and i get a trade discount in there.

However its called a rotary sander, not orbital, Im not sure if this is down to halfords not knowing what it actually is and just slapping the word rotary on it because it turns round. Because all other sanders like this are orbital, theres nothing on the box at all that says orbital so i to be on the safe side i left it, as i very much doubt anyone instore could tell you if it was orbitl or rotary


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## blurb

The halfords one is 10% off at the moment so could be a bargain if we can confirm if it's RO or not. Plus, if you've got one of the 15% off vouchers from the other week it could be really bargainous for the occasional polisher.
I've no machine polishing experience but would I be able to tell if it is Random Orbital if I got them to plug it in and just look/touch the backing plate to see if it's got a little "shimmy"? If so, I'll pop down and report back.

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/...1_productId_232675_langId_-1_categoryId_76862


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## PG325

I'm going to get one of the Silverline versions, whats the best pads to use and where to buy.

It's going to be used on a silver vauxhall.

Thanks.

PG.


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## _daveR

PG325 said:


> I'm going to get one of the Silverline versions, whats the best pads to use and where to buy.
> 
> It's going to be used on a silver vauxhall.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> PG.


I bought Meguiars Finishing and Polishing pads. Seemed as good a place as any to start.

After reading more about Rotarys though I'm wondering if I should have just bought one and been done with it!


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## nmdbase

3dr said:


> did the OP mention these are £19.99... deffo worth a punt, for that, even if it gives a little correction.........


They look like they are £19.99 too


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## blurb

blurb said:


> The halfords one is 10% off at the moment so could be a bargain if we can confirm if it's RO or not. Plus, if you've got one of the 15% off vouchers from the other week it could be really bargainous for the occasional polisher.
> I've no machine polishing experience but would I be able to tell if it is Random Orbital if I got them to plug it in and just look/touch the backing plate to see if it's got a little "shimmy"? If so, I'll pop down and report back.
> 
> http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/...1_productId_232675_langId_-1_categoryId_76862


I put one on "reserve & collect", would be about 15 quid as I have one of the vouchers, but I won't bother with it unless someone can give me some advice on checking for it being an RO. I only want it for more effective/easier application of SRP and the like. No major correction work.
TIA


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## VIPER

blurb said:


> I put one on "reserve & collect", would be about 15 quid as I have one of the vouchers, but I won't bother with it unless someone can give me some advice on checking for it being an RO. I only want it for more effective/easier application of SRP and the like. No major correction work.
> TIA


when you look at the base plate from the bottom - i.e facing you it should look off centre slightly to the tune of about 5mm ish. Don't move your position and switch it on, then back off again, it will now be still off centre but in a different position. Also when you switch on you should be able to hold your hand on the backing plate and stop it spinning - it will then just be vibrating (be careful doing this though, obviously. I can bring my Silverline to a stop by holding it, but I can't vouch for a different machine).


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## Clean-my-sxi

For siome reason i had it in my head that the other one that B&Q sell was a Perkins one, it is actually a Peformance tools one (dont know where i got the make Perkins).

Anyway after looking in there again, i would say that the Performance tools, Silverline, or Halfords one if its a orbital would be a better bet, as they are more compact in size like a PC.

The MAC one does appear to be a bit bigger and its rather large around the backing plate area which probably wouldnt be a good thing considering the picture showns it with 150mm plate on. The others have backing plates all slightly bigger then the machine.




























I also want to know if the Halfords one is Random orbital as i have a discount card so it would work out a good buy for me.


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## Tony Soprano

If you scroll down on the Halfords page there is a Q&A to view where a Halfords Tech describes the difference between a rotary and a random orbital - Bearing in mind the item is described as a Rotary

The Halfords answer:-

A: An orbital sander has a random eccentric motion to improve surface finish

So my money is on it being a rotary sander


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## SuperchargedLlama

So the silverline with some 6.5" pads for SRP'ing sounds like a safe bet then? Good stuff, it's nice to find a cheap solution that isn't botched.


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## Clean-my-sxi

yeah the halfords one probably is a rotary, but needs confirming i think as all these type sanders are orbital, so seems a bit weird that this one is a rotary.

f it is rotary, then the silverline or the performance tools one at B&Q for £20, imo will probably be the better bet.

The MAC one does look smart and come with a carry case and extras, but as i said above, when you look at it in store the size of the machine around the backing plate is a bit putting off i think as the others are more sompact around this area.


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## Clean-my-sxi

Just been to halfords, It is a random orbital as when it spins it drifts off of centre, However im not buying it as it feels poorly made and the variable settings are not numbered from 1-6 for example, you just turn the knob and hear it click around 10 times.


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## bluenose

I've been watching this thread with interest as it's just the sort of thing I'm after. I use a rechargeable Cosmo with 4 inch spot pads for applying LSP. Given I only look after my own and family cars I can't justify a G220. For £20, it's got to be wortha a go so I've just ordered the Silverline!

Cheers for the all the info on this.

One other question.....
When talking about applying pressure to a polisher how much should it be? As a way of testing, if i was to press down on a pair of bathroom scales, what sort of weight should it go up to? 

Ta!


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## Clean-my-sxi

apply pressure so that the pad rotates 2 times per second


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## _daveR

bluenose said:


> One other question.....
> When talking about applying pressure to a polisher how much should it be? As a way of testing, if i was to press down on a pair of bathroom scales, what sort of weight should it go up to?
> 
> Ta!


Bathroom scales is the suggested way of getting an idea for how hard to press.

Can you link to the Cosmo rechargable machine you are on about? sounds interesting.


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## lethbridge

I am in the same position as bluenose and cannot justify the cost of a G220 so the silverline is the way to go for me!! the car is only 2 months old so not much correction needed but will help with applying polish etc. Think I am going to get the megs pads and 2 sample bottles of menz polish from clean your car.

Does anyone have any before and after shots from using this machine?


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## Mike F

Have been lurking for a while now and following this thread closely. Decided to get the B&Q Performance Power one today.



Clean-my-sxi said:


> apply pressure so that the pad rotates 2 times per second


Tested it today and you only need very light pressure to get 2 rotations a second. Press any harder and it just vibrates.

Great find 'Clean-my-sxi' and RussZS :thumb:


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## 3dr

Mike F said:


> Have been lurking for a while now and following this thread closely. Decided to get the B&Q Performance Power one today.
> 
> Tested it today and you only need very light pressure to get 2 rotations a second. Press any harder and it just vibrates.
> 
> Great find 'Clean-my-sxi' and RussZS :thumb:


i think you'll find it is Pit Viper that's done the homework


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## Clean-my-sxi

Yep pit viper told me and i told the world.

Getting the performance tools or the silverline one myself, but my birthday i next month so thats on my list with some pads


----------



## bluenose

daveR - I got my Cosmo from here.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cosmo-Cordles...6656477QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

Useful little machine as it saves some elbow work. Great for getting fast even coats of LSP on but won't offer any form of correction power. I'm using it with Sonus SFX-3 4 inch pads from CYC and it works a treat. Also got the the SFX-2 pad for applying SRP.

Hopefully the Silverline will give me a bit more grunt. I've got a white 6.5" Lake Country polishing pad from Ron at Motorgeek. Will that be OK with the Silverline and Megs #83?

PM me if you want any more info.


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

I think I've missed it somewhere, but is there a link to the silverline, or a model number in this thread? I can't see for looking.


----------



## VIPER

Mother-Goose said:


> I think I've missed it somewhere, but is there a link to the silverline, or a model number in this thread? I can't see for looking.


Got mine from here (had a free delivery offer on at the time):-

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/PowerTools/SilverlinePowerTools/d40/sd2670

But also available here:-

http://www.kingdomtools.co.uk/power_tools/Sanders_PL_324.html


----------



## bluenose

Here you go...

http://www.transtools.co.uk/store/i...ne-589670-hi-spec-125mm-random-orbital-sander


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

Cheers lads, much appreciated! I'll give one of them (but not Trans, cheers Dave) a go.

I have one quick question, 4000rpm on an orbital is fine as the minimum speed?


----------



## VIPER

Funny thing this speed issue - on a DA machine should it really be given as RPM or OPM? (Oscillations Per Minute). The G220 always has its specs listed as 2760-6900 OPM. So, given that the Silverline is basically working in the same way (slightly smaller 'throw' for the offset notwithstanding) then if its specs were given in OPM then on the low speeds it should still fall within the parameters of the Megs unit.

But, as I've said before, you can be over-analytical about comparing the 'numbers' between various machines. In my experience of it, it works in practice and allows the recommended pressure to be applied whilst still spinning the pad at about 1-2 times per second. I can only comment on how it works on the cars I've used it on and with the products I've used:- Puma (clearcoat metallic pearl), XR2 (solid single stage), Renault (clearcoat metallic) and Hyundai (clearcoat metallic). All with Poorboys SSR2 on SP pads and in every case it gave me the results I was looking for. None of the above were badly swirled, they only required light correction, hence the reason for taking a punt on a non specialist detailing machine in the hope that it would suffice, and it has. Also has to be noted that the Silverline hasn't missed a beat and feels as though it would last for years (covered by a manufacturers 3 year warranty anyway).


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

Cheers pitviper! I only raised the speed issue as the Rotary's kinda top out around that speed, I guess Random orbitals product a significant amount of heat, I knew it was less, but hadn't realised it was that much less.


----------



## VIPER

Mother-Goose said:


> Cheers pitviper! I only raised the speed issue as the Rotary's kinda top out around that speed, I guess Random orbitals product a significant amount of heat, I knew it was less, but hadn't realised it was that much less.


Yeah, a massive difference in how a DA and rotary work - the rotaries are actually spinning the pads around at anything from 600 to a couple of thousand RPM, where as a DA is only 'spinning' it at just over 60 times per minute (just using the 1 rev per second as an average). The rest of the work is done by the oscillating action. Hence DA/Random orbitals don't really produce any real heat in operation, well not in comparison to a rotary anyway.


----------



## GeeJay

_daveR said:


> Money was taken on Friday... That's why I'm not too impressed!


Dave, a little re-assurance...

I ordered Mike B and myself's silverline's from transtools on Weds lunch of last week.
The status changed to 'Completed' a few hours later that day. Completed means it's been processed and passed to the warehouse for packing and despatch.
It wasn't until Friday @ 4pm that the status changed to 'Dispatched' and it was here on Monday 

Hopefully that gives you a little confidence that although slow, it'll get here 

So far I'm impressed with the machine  I havent used it on the car, as it's too wet out there, but it feels quality, and its nicely weighted and balanced. I used the bundled pad on a kitchen floor tile and only a little bit of pressure on the lowest setting spins the pad 1-2 times per second. Also there's not terribly much vibration at all 

Can;t wait to get this in action. Mike and myself have a heavily swirled red 206 to attack, so the before/after or 50/50 shots could be impressive, and justifcation for this machine

G


----------



## _daveR

Thanks GeeJay, I'm going to call them in a bit and if it hasn't been sent or is not going to be sent today then I'll cancel and order from somewhere else.


----------



## VIPER

GeeJay said:


> Dave, a little re-assurance...
> 
> I ordered Mike B and myself's silverline's from transtools on Weds lunch of last week.
> The status changed to 'Completed' a few hours later that day. Completed means it's been processed and passed to the warehouse for packing and despatch.
> It wasn't until Friday @ 4pm that the status changed to 'Dispatched' and it was here on Monday
> 
> Hopefully that gives you a little confidence that although slow, it'll get here
> 
> *So far I'm impressed with the machine  I havent used it on the car, as it's too wet out there, but it feels quality, and its nicely weighted and balanced. I used the bundled pad on a kitchen floor tile and only a little bit of pressure on the lowest setting spins the pad 1-2 times per second. Also there's not terribly much vibration at all *
> 
> Can;t wait to get this in action. Mike and myself have a heavily swirled red 206 to attack, so the before/after or 50/50 shots could be impressive, and justifcation for this machine
> 
> G


Seems to echo my view on it :thumb: Sometimes you can just tell by handling something that it will be almost unbreakable (in normal use obviously, not counting dropping it or anything silly). I've also used it for a full day solid on one occasion and had no issues with vibration whatsoever. The only downside is it's a bit noisy, but then it's not like it's getting used every weekend, so not really an issue.


----------



## lethbridge

lots of people seem to like the megs pads but I just went for the 3M pads as got a good price from ebay and a good fit for this machine. Menz polish also gets good reviews and I like the DODO range of waxes, I have supernatural and all the soft waxes and would suggest one of those, light fantastic is good on silver but could use any of them, a sample pot of supernatural version 2 would be a good choice!


----------



## lethbridge

pit viper said that he trimmed his pads to 5inch as they seemed to work better. The 3M pads I got from ebay are actually 5.25inch so perfect fit for the use, the pads normally retail at about £10 each but there are some on ebay for £4.25 with free delivery, I ordered 2 today, they can be used as a polishing and finishing pad so i thought they were worth a try!


----------



## _daveR

lethbridge said:


> pit viper said that he trimmed his pads to 5inch as they seemed to work better. The 3M pads I got from ebay are actually 5.25inch so perfect fit for the use, the pads normally retail at about £10 each but there are some on ebay for £4.25 with free delivery, I ordered 2 today, they can be used as a polishing and finishing pad so i thought they were worth a try!


Got a link?

I'm going to buy myself a scrap bonnet and practice in the garage


----------



## blurb

I would hazard a guess that these are the ones.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3M-Polishing-...39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


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## Alan W

Those pads are available in the Group Buy section of DW! 

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=74002

Same pads as above and the same seller! :lol:

Alan W


----------



## ipodsandguns

think im gunna get me one of the mac ones to try with some 3m pads get it friday i think. i was gunna get a g220 but il wait a month and give one of these a whizz


----------



## mattyb95

Very interesting as I too was going to get a G220 but as it would only be a few cars to work on it seems a bit excessive. Please oh please can all those people who have bought one put some 50/50s up so we can see the results!


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

They dont look as though they are evry thick though, pitt viper is using 50mm thick pads


----------



## ipodsandguns

you dont 'need' to use a 50mm pad its just what viper choose to, having the distance between the machine and car is good though


----------



## mike b

Ive also bought the 50mm pads (from SeriousPerformance) to give it some distance from the machine as the backing plate isnt foam backed like most rotarys  Im sure the 'normal' thickness will be fine if your careful, but as its my first machine, i wanted to be cautious!


----------



## VIPER

lethbridge said:


> pit viper said that he trimmed his pads to 5inch as they seemed to work better. The 3M pads I got from ebay are actually 5.25inch so perfect fit for the use, the pads normally retail at about £10 each but there are some on ebay for £4.25 with free delivery, I ordered 2 today, they can be used as a polishing and finishing pad so i thought they were worth a try!


Those 5.25 pads sound perfect for use with this :thumb: I only initially trimmed down the pads a bit to get around some tighter areas, and it was only after doing this that I noticed it was able to spin a bit faster and withstand more pressure applied when polishing and still retain the 1-2 revs per second. When I get some new pads, I think I'll go for some of those 5.25 to begin with then I won't have to alter them.



ipodsandguns said:


> you dont 'need' to use a 50mm pad its just what viper choose to, having the distance between the machine and car is good though


That's true, you don't - at the time of ordering, I think the 50mm were the only ones in stock in both the blue polishing and red finishing types so I just went for them, no other reason really. Thinner pads (especially at the 5.25 in size would be perfect).

Sorry, I've no 50/50s at the moment but as soon as I do another car (or even just a small area, I'll post some up - just waiting for some decent weather as others have said


----------



## robrobc

Got mine this morning..............excellent piece of kit ........thanks *pit viper* as it was really on your advice that I bought it, have been practising and run out of things to polish, wonder if the dog will buff up


----------



## bluenose

Now I did see a thread of somebody de-swirling a bath some time back....:buffer:

Mine arrived this avo as well.


----------



## VIPER

robrobc said:


> Got mine this morning..............excellent piece of kit ........thanks *pit viper* as it was really on your advice that I bought it, have been practising and run out of things to polish, wonder if the dog will buff up


No probs, matey :thumb: What pads/polish you using? (LOL at the dog!)


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> What pads/polish you using?


Spit shine :buffer:


----------



## robrobc

Pit Viper said:


> No probs, matey :thumb: What pads/polish you using? (LOL at the dog!)


3M Black with AG SRP at the moment I am awaiting a delivery of menz polish and pads so will try those out when they arrive. Any ideas on a good wax for black saab paintwork? Thanks


----------



## 3dr

pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics pics :wave::lol:


----------



## _daveR

Need to go collect mine from fedex at lunch tomorrow. The mrs popped out for ten mins today and as sods law would have it that's when he tries to deliver it! 

Not sure what to try first, thinking some vanilla moose glaze and then some supernatural over it. Or I might just try some CG EZ creme glaze over the current BOS layers and then top with more BOS?


----------



## mike b

Got my polishes today! Got the Sonus SFX 1/2/3 and paint cleanser for a bargain price to join my Silverline!

Also got the SeriousPerformance Polishing and Finishing pads.

If the weather permits, ill be detailing my gf's 206 in due course. It hasnt been washed in 6 months, so its very mucky! Ill take pics if it all goes ahead. (weather permitting!)

Pic of what ive been waiting for:


----------



## swompdonkey

This looks the daddy, any body have some 50/50 :buffer:shots of the results.. Before i part with some cash..


----------



## mazda3_daveg

I promised myself I wouldn't get into machine polishing to try and keep a cap on my detailing costs - but at £20 and a bit more for polish/pads I really want one.

Would love to see some before after shots and hear how easy it is for a complete machine polish newbe to work.

Is it possible to damage the paint by getting the wrong speed etc? If I just use a finishing pad and light finishing polish is there any way I can make it worse?

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

Mine's just turned up as well, pretty impressed with the unit tbh, seems pretty sturdy and has some weight to it, much better than I was expecting!


----------



## VIPER

mazda3_daveg said:


> I promised myself I wouldn't get into machine polishing to try and keep a cap on my detailing costs - but at £20 and a bit more for polish/pads I really want one.
> 
> Would love to see some before after shots and hear how easy it is for a complete machine polish newbe to work.
> 
> *Is it possible to damage the paint by getting the wrong speed etc? If I just use a finishing pad and light finishing polish is there any way I can make it worse?*
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave


No, not really - you'd have to have it on the top setting and hold it firmly against the same spot for an age without moving it before it would do any damage with just a finishing pad and a light polish.


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Thanks Viper - that's what I wanted to hear. Just read the machine polishing FAQ and guide and am really keen now!

Just need to clear out the garage so I have room to do it. If only you were earning commission on these!


----------



## arcdef

coming from another puma owner pit viper, what polish did you find worked best on this paint??? saying that car seems to have had a sh%t respray at some time so i doubt the paint will be too similar......but yeah what polish and pad so i can order and get it gleaming!!! any after pics of your puma btw???

cheers


----------



## VIPER

mazda3_daveg said:


> Thanks Viper - that's what I wanted to hear. Just read the machine polishing FAQ and guide and am really keen now!
> 
> Just need to clear out the garage so I have room to do it. *If only you were earning commission on these*!


On the blower to Silverline as I type!! :lol:



arcdef said:


> coming from another puma owner pit viper, what polish did you find worked best on this paint??? saying that car seems to have had a sh%t respray at some time so i doubt the paint will be too similar......but yeah what polish and pad so i can order and get it gleaming!!! any after pics of your puma btw???
> 
> cheers


Well, I used Poorboys SSR2 on a polishing pad followed by the same again on a finishing pad. In hindsight, I might have gone for SSR2.5 on the polishing pad and then SSR2 on the finishing pad to 'smooth' it down ready for LSP. I only say this because some areas took a couple of passes with the SSR2 where I suspect that the SSR2.5 would have done it in one. I still have a few areas that need re-doing. You'll have to substitute other brands in place of the SSRs that I've used 'like for like' with regards to abrasiveness. I'd guess that Meguiars #83 followed by #80 would work equally well and is pretty universal combo that will tackle most paint types.
I do have a few pics but they don't really show any befores and afters I'm afraid, and they are all on my old photobucket account which is now basically 'dead' as I've exceeded my bandwidth. So until I've re-loaded them up to my new account I can't post them again on here. They would still have been on here if you did a search as I've posted them before, but the pics won't show up


----------



## bluenose

Got my Silverline today! Cheers for the advice Pit Viper, this could be the piece of kit i've been hoping to find. I'm amazed at the quality for the money.

Slighly off topic, but one question, I invested in Megs #83 should I really get some #80 as a final finish polish? Worried that the #83 will be too aggresive for just light swirls in a clearcoat? 

Any advice always appreciated.....


----------



## VIPER

bluenose said:


> Got my Silverline today! Cheers for the advice Pit Viper, this could be the piece of kit i've been hoping to find. I'm amazed at the quality for the money.
> 
> Slighly off topic, but one question, I invested in Megs #83 should I really get some #80 as a final finish polish? Worried that the #83 will be too aggresive for just light swirls in a clearcoat?
> 
> Any advice always appreciated.....


For just light swirls in clearcoat personally I'd just have gone for the #80 on its own as it finishes down to an LSP level very well and would be easily capable of handling the correction. The pad choice as well can also be a factor in how particular polishes handle correction and how well they finish down. Hard to say without seeing it, obviously, but it sounds like #80 would have sufficed in your case . You will need to finish off after the #83 with something else, but if you're going to get #80 anyway, then just try that first on its own and see if it does the job as you always work up in abrasives, not the other way around.


----------



## _daveR

Just got home with my test bonnet :lol: 

Went to a breakers in Yateley with the intention of getting a mk2 golf bonnet or something like that. The guy offered me an Impreza bonnet for free though so took that instead. It's not ideal with the obvious holes for the vents but it should do the job. 

Pics in a bit!


----------



## _daveR

Just stopped to watch the F1...

I've split the front of the bonnet up into 4 parts approx 1ft sq. So far I've done the following:
- 2 passes of #83 on one of them
- 2 passes of SSR2 on another
- 2 passes of #83 on another

I think I might try SRP on the 4th just to see how it goes. All have been done with a Megs polishing pad too.

Will finish off and take the tape off later 

(This is after washing it and taping it up. The odd bits of tape are over cracks in the paint.)


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Cheers Dave - look forward to hearing / seeing your results.


----------



## _daveR

I wish I'd bought a cutting pad now too just to see how much it would influence the colour restoration.

Left is #83, right is SSR2...


----------



## mazda3_daveg

_daveR said:


> Left is #83, right is SSR2...


It looks like there is some red on the blue masking tape. Is the polish red or does the paint not have a clear coat?


----------



## VIPER

Very quick before and after pics coming in a bit (and I mean very quick :lol: - just broke off from mowing the lawn to do a small section on the Puma so the shots aren't great and neither is the lighting as the clouds kept obscuring the sun but I tried)


----------



## _daveR

mazda3_daveg said:


> It looks like there is some red on the blue masking tape. Is the polish red or does the paint not have a clear coat?


No clear coat on this. The car I'm wanting to work on is our Tornado red Audi, hence getting a bonnet in a single stage red to get the best idea on.

I'm just uploading some pictures now. It's been quite interesting tbh!


----------



## mazda3_daveg

_daveR said:


> I'm just uploading some pictures now. It's been quite interesting tbh!


Cheers for the reply - look forward to seeing those photos. Did you do it all without a PTG? That must be the worrying bit - not knowing how thick the paint is and risk of a strike-through!


----------



## VIPER

Area on the Puma that still had some moderate to minor swirling










SSR2 on a Serious Performance blue polishing pad










After










As I said in the post earlier, I was rushing this as I was in the middle of mowing the lawn :lol: and although it was quite sunny when I started, as you can see in the 'after' shot, some menacing black clouds were rapidly heading my way so I couldn't get a perfect shot (and I wanted to hurry up and finish the lawn before it started to rain). Given a bit more time I'd have gone over this with SSR2 again on a finishing pad).
Anyway, you get the general idea hopefully


----------



## _daveR

I've put a post up here.... http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=85551


----------



## notsosmall

Hi Guys, im a newbe to this posting but been reading this site for a while and had loads of good tips from here, anyway been reading this thread and decided to take the plunge and try one of these cheaper options to machine polishing so i bought this one:

MacAllister Randon Orbital sander

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/n...1220622149860&isSearch=true&selected=products

£30 two sizes of backing plates, storage case and 3 year warranty

So along with a pad and some Meguiars paint cleaner i tryed it out on a mates car that he just bought and was in quite poor condition paint wise.

First pics before we started

second the tools

third is a 50/50 after just 1 go

fourth is just to show how poor the weather was!

also bearing in mind this was only 1 pass so I am well impressed with this machine and cant wait for a better day to get the rest done and then the polish and wax on top and also my subaru will be getting the treatment with megs deep crystal 1,2,and 3 already done the megs clay which is excellent!!!


----------



## bidderman1969

notsosmall said:


> Hi Guys, im a newbe to this posting but been reading this site for a while and had loads of good tips from here, anyway been reading this thread and decided to take the plunge and try one of these cheaper options to machine polishing so i bought this one:
> 
> MacAllister Randon Orbital sander
> 
> http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/n...1220622149860&isSearch=true&selected=products
> 
> £30 two sizes of backing plates, storage case and 3 year warranty
> 
> So along with a pad and some Meguiars paint cleaner i tryed it out on a mates car that he just bought and was in quite poor condition paint wise.
> 
> First pics before we started
> 
> second the tools
> 
> third is a 50/50 after just 1 go
> 
> fourth is just to show how poor the weather was!
> 
> also bearing in mind this was only 1 pass so I am well impressed with this machine and cant wait for a better day to get the rest done and then the polish and wax on top and also my subaru will be getting the treatment with megs deep crystal 1,2,and 3 already done the megs clay which is excellent!!!


which pad was it?

im thinking this would be an ok tool for wet sanding to?


----------



## arcdef

im defiantly going for one of those now!!!! nice to see some positive results from more than one person!!!! all hail pit viper for pointing this out!!!


----------



## mattyb95

notsosmall, I'd advise using a different wax than the stage 3 Megs one as its durability is quite poor


----------



## notsosmall

I had trouble getting a pad so it was the only one i could get was from autosave in a plane bag looks like a compounding one to me. 
I would recommend this machine to anyone it soooo easy to use and easy to handle! 

Matty95 :- what would you recomend? is it just the stage 3 wax are stage 1 & 2 ok? all the megs stuff ive tryed so far seem good to me. not opened the wax yet. 

Thanks to all who responded


----------



## 3dr

@ notsosmall, what's the 2 bases included? what diameter are they? btw if you used a better quality compound/polish and better quality pads i reckon you'll be onto a winner! :thumb:


----------



## notsosmall

3Dr the two hook and loop bases includes are 150mm and 125mm,

ive just done a test on my subaru bonnet (pic attached) the paint is already in good condition and already been clayed, so not such a clear result as the red golf. the weather is also really dull so pics aint the best. 

Left side done/ right side untouched! :buffer:


----------



## 3dr

notsosmall said:


> 3Dr the two hook and loop bases includes are 150mm and 125mm,
> 
> ive just done a test on my subaru bonnet (pic attached) the paint is already in good condition and already been clayed, so not such a clear result as the red golf. the weather is also really dull so pics aint the best.
> 
> Left side done/ right side untouched! :buffer:


how much correction would you say it got? the left side looks a little darker to me? how noisy is the mofo? :buffer::thumb:


----------



## notsosmall

I don't think the pics do much justice to the silver subaru but it does look better on close inspection not much correction if any really was in good condition as it was I just need to get some good polish and wax on there now I will hopefully get it done one day this week! 

The machine is very quite i think, def quieter than i thought it would be. mind i've only been putting it between speed 1 and 3 it goes to 6!


----------



## mattyb95

notsosmall said:


> I had trouble getting a pad so it was the only one i could get was from autosave in a plane bag looks like a compounding one to me.
> I would recommend this machine to anyone it soooo easy to use and easy to handle!
> 
> Matty95 :- what would you recomend? is it just the stage 3 wax are stage 1 & 2 ok? all the megs stuff ive tryed so far seem good to me. not opened the wax yet.
> 
> Thanks to all who responded


The first 2 are good and the 3rd one will give a fairly good finish but it just doesn't last and with bad Autumn/winter weather on the way (or here, can't quite tell ) you don't want to be re-applying that often. Depends what you want but for a similar price Collinite would be a good bet, very durable and gives a nice finish too.


----------



## mattyb95

If I just wanted to get one of these for applying thing like Lime Prime or Need for Speed to quicken up waxing, what pad would I need? (new to all this machining hence considering this cheap starting point)


----------



## mike b

Im guessing a 'finishing' pad Matt, as the lime prime lite, and NFS doesnt do any correction as such (iirc its just normal lime prime that has any abrasives?), so just needs working onto the paint


----------



## VIPER

+1 ^^^ :thumb:


----------



## notsosmall

mattyb95 said:


> The first 2 are good and the 3rd one will give a fairly good finish but it just doesn't last and with bad Autumn/winter weather on the way (or here, can't quite tell ) you don't want to be re-applying that often. Depends what you want but for a similar price Collinite would be a good bet, very durable and gives a nice finish too.


Thanks can i go for the 3rd stage then apply collinite over the top?

What collinite do i get for Silver? 915? 476?


----------



## VIPER

notsosmall said:


> Thanks can i go for the 3rd stage then apply collinite over the top?
> 
> What collinite do i get for Silver? 915? 476?


I'd skip the 3rd stage altogether and just apply some 476s (it's just unnecessary extra work for you as it won't give you anything extra if you're layering Collinite over it. If you're going to put 2 layers on you'd be far better doing 2 layers of the 476 (recommended anyway). 915 or 476s - it doesn't really matter but on silver I'd go for the latter


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

They have been discontinued, as i have spoke to 3 companies now including kingdom tools and they have all just got the new silverline catalogue in and the orbital sander is no longer in there. Kingdom tools say they may some odd ones in

Yes pit viper i thought about it for to liong and didnt think i would need to rush out and get one, just my luck they stopped doing it when i go to buy one


----------



## VIPER

How are they going to honour the 3 year warranty then? If mine goes 'pop' then I want a new one, or a like for like, not my old one that's been cracked open and bodged! Not happy about this at all. It's working perfectly at the moment and tbh. it feels bulletproof, but then typing that is tempting fate isn't it? I wonder if they are bringing a new one out? They have a blue one in the DIY range but that's not variable speed so I wouldn't use that.


----------



## _daveR

Clean-my-sxi said:


> POOH they have discontinued the silverline ones, i now hae some 3m pads and no orbital sander, looks like im gonna have to get one from B&Q now


Unlucky! It's a little ironic that you started this thread and everyone now has one except you! 

On a tangent, I've got my 3m pads through today (Cheers Mr Singh) so I'm going to have a try with them tonight.


----------



## nmdbase

Alan W said:


> Those pads are available in the Group Buy section of DW!
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=74002
> 
> Same pads as above and the same seller! :lol:
> 
> Alan W


Or Carters consumables for £3.32:thumb:


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

MMM im not sure on the warranty thing, maybe they will bring out a new one but they dont have one in the new catalogue, the blue one is still going though, but like you said it has no variable speed.

Never mind ill just get the one out of B&Q instead, im sure it will do the same thing


----------



## _daveR

Clean-my-sxi said:


> MMM im not sure on the warranty thing, maybe they will bring out a new one but they dont have one in the new catalogue, the blue one is still going though, but like you said it has no variable speed.
> 
> Never mind ill just get the one out of B&Q instead, im sure it will do the same thing


I've just had a quick go with the smaller pads and whilst they work a lot better, I'm not sure I'd feel happy attacking a car with them as there just isnt the safety of having the extra pad around the edge of the machine.


----------



## VIPER

_daveR said:


> I've just had a quick go with the smaller pads and whilst they work a lot better, I'm not sure I'd feel happy attacking a car with them as there just isnt the safety of having the extra pad around the edge of the machine.


Which ones were they again?


----------



## _daveR

3m ones mate. 

Spin nicely but they must only be 20-25mm thick. Makes me a bit cautious.


----------



## VIPER

Maybe the best compromise might be the menzerna ones which are 135 x 35mm then? Only thing is I can only find them in the compounding and polishing forms, not a finishing pad. Mind you, I'm happy with my Serious Peformance red finishing pad now it's smaller, but I suppose it won't last forever.

So you noticed the increased speed and pressure you could apply without it bogging down then?


----------



## O`Neil

Clean-my-sxi said:


> Never mind ill just get the one out of B&Q instead, im sure it will do the same thing


I went to B&Q today and they didn`t have one in :lol:

While I`m here I`d just like to thank everyone for their input into this thread :thumb:


----------



## Modmedia

I have the B&Q one.. It's not bad. Using Meg's Pads' though??


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

Grande-Punto said:


> I have the B&Q one.. It's not bad. Using Meg's Pads' though??


What B&Q one have you got, the MAC one or the performance tools one.

I have bought the 3m pads also and was also conserned about the thickness of them, compared to the 50mm ones P Viper is using. I think they should be fine but now its been said by some1 else about them being thin im not sure if i want to try them.


----------



## zappa_69

I know this has probably been asked b4 and its a bit cheeky but can someone advise me which pads, backing plate and polish etc I would need to remove swirls and generaly polsih a dark green mkIV golf ? Any advice welcome?

with a silverline


----------



## O`Neil

Clean-my-sxi said:


> What B&Q one have you got, the MAC one or the performance tools one.


I`ll be going for the MAC if I can find one on my travells :thumb:


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

ive looked at the MAC one already and tbh its quite big compared to the others and its made to use the larger pads, though it has a smaller backing plate to use im not sure it would make it entirely safe as the pad is then smaller them the actual machine behind it.

Hard to explain, the cheaper performance tools one they do seems more compact


----------



## VIPER

Clean-my-sxi said:


> ive looked at the MAC one already and tbh its quite big compared to the others and its made to use the larger pads, though it has a smaller backing plate to use im not sure it would make it entirely safe as *the pad is then smaller them the actual machine behind it.*
> 
> Hard to explain, the cheaper performance tools one they do seems more compact


I think that would be something of a problem when using it as a polisher tbh. Probably fine for sanding, but risky on a car. I checked out a few in the DIY stores before getting the Silverline and they all seemed a bit bulky, heavy and cumbersome to me in comparison.


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

I think the MAC one would be fine if your only planning on using the 150mm pads, but looking at it i think using the smaller plate and pads is risky.

Im not sure if to use these 3m pads now though or get me some SP ones and sell the 3ms


----------



## VIPER

If you get the MAC one with the 150mm plate, then probably go for the SP, but if you try and find a Silverline (which I'd recommend), then stick with what you have.


----------



## zappa_69

zappa_69 said:


> I know this has probably been asked b4 and its a bit cheeky but can someone advise me which pads, backing plate and polish etc I would need to remove swirls and generaly polsih a dark green mkIV golf ? Any advice welcome?
> 
> with a silverline


Would this backing plate be any good??

http://www.glossmax.com/store/index...id=318&zenid=fbd5de300e72544d8b7fe4c1d047576b


----------



## Scottland

Hmm, I wasn't going to bother with a machine until next year, but for £20 it's worth a punt!

What pads would be best for restoring after wet sanding? As well as some light correction, using the Silverline machine?


----------



## gardian

I was thinking about the MAC one from B&Q as its got a 3 year warrenty, but if its big and bulky compard to the Silverline, i think i will just get that one instead


----------



## notsosmall

The Mac one does work ive used it a lot over the past few days, 

The 150mm pads are perfect on it the 125mm are hower not ideal but are useable with extra care so you do not touch the car with the machine! 

I can take pics of mine with each pads on if it helps so let me know!?


----------



## sasko

Pit Viper said:


> If you get the MAC one with the 150mm plate, then probably go for the SP, but if you try and find a Silverline (which I'd recommend), then stick with what you have.


Big thanks to Clean-my-sxi and viper for the great posts in this thread - have just order a silverline from http://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=olp_offerlisting_2?ie=UTF8&me=ANC65A3J0328N £24 delivered, still in stock at the moment if you want one Clean-my-sxi.

Quick question on pads for Viper - which are the best pads for this machine??

Cheers
Sam


----------



## notsosmall

Heres the Mac with the 150mm pad



















And the smaller 125mm



















As you can see there's loads of clearance with the 150mm pad ive been round my Subaru with this twice and a friends Golf with no problems at all, The 125mm doesn't have so much clearance but imo would be usable with just a little bit more care if you really needed the smaller size pad which i didn't. but its always there if i did need it.

For £30 its great value and really easy to use!!!! :thumb:

My Scooby is gleaming thanks to this and meguiars and that's with cheap pads!! but i will be getting better ones just had to get ones that day so i could try it


----------



## mike b

zappa_69 said:


> Anyone?


You dont need to buy backing plates, the machine comes with one as part of it.


----------



## brookhouse16

thanks for the pics notsosmall looks good. where did you get your pads from?


----------



## VIPER

sasko said:


> Big thanks to Clean-my-sxi and viper for the great posts in this thread - have just order a silverline from http://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=olp_offerlisting_2?ie=UTF8&me=ANC65A3J0328N £24 delivered, still in stock at the moment if you want one Clean-my-sxi.
> 
> Quick question on pads for Viper - which are the best pads for this machine??
> 
> Cheers
> Sam


Although I'm using Serious Performance pads (although they are trimmed down a bit as I've talked about before), a few of us have sort of concluded that the best compromise would be something like the 135mm menzerna pads as they are large enough to cover the backing plate yet not too bulky to start bogging down the machine under load and then require trimming.

Just on the backing plate thing - I'm sure I saw that the MAC machine had a hard and rigid edge to its backing plate when I looked at them prior to getting my silverline - does it? The Silverline one has a flexible rubber edge to its backing plate so although you still wouldn't want it coming into contact with the car, it would do a lot less damage than a hard one. Even so I've not had issues with any part of the machine getting anywhere the car when I've used it.


----------



## sasko

Pit Viper said:


> Although I'm using Serious Performance pads (although they are trimmed down a bit as I've talked about before), a few of us have sort of concluded that the best compromise would be something like the 135mm menzerna pads as they are large enough to cover the backing plate yet not too bulky to start bogging down the machine under load and then require trimming.
> 
> Thanks Pit Viper will have a look at the menzerna pads. Hoping the machine will arrive tomorrow or early next week so need to get on order pads then I can give it a try next weekend!!
> 
> Cheers
> Sam


----------



## mattyb95

sasko said:


> Big thanks to Clean-my-sxi and viper for the great posts in this thread - have just order a silverline from http://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=olp_offerlisting_2?ie=UTF8&me=ANC65A3J0328N £24 delivered, still in stock at the moment if you want one Clean-my-sxi.
> 
> Quick question on pads for Viper - which are the best pads for this machine??
> 
> Cheers
> Sam


You beat me to it. I PM'd Clean-my-sxi yesterday to try and give him a bit of a heads up on this so he didn't miss out again. Ordered one myself yesterday, Amazon have about 5 sellers on there all around the £25 mark when you factor in delivery. Just need to order some pads now!

Do Menzerna only do the 2 types of pad and if so would the polishing pad with a very fine polish be suitable for finishing or would it still leave some micro marring that would need a proper finishing pad?

Also has anybody used a buffing bonnet on this machine and if so does it just fit over a standard pad to offer a quick way of buffing off wax/sealant etc?


----------



## CleanYourCar

mattyb95 said:


> You beat me to it. I PM'd Clean-my-sxi yesterday to try and give him a bit of a heads up on this so he didn't miss out again. Ordered one myself yesterday, Amazon have about 5 sellers on there all around the £25 mark when you factor in delivery. Just need to order some pads now!
> 
> Do Menzerna only do the 2 types of pad and if so would the polishing pad with a very fine polish be suitable for finishing or would it still leave some micro marring that would need a proper finishing pad?
> 
> Also has anybody used a buffing bonnet on this machine and if so does it just fit over a standard pad to offer a quick way of buffing off wax/sealant etc?


Yeah Menzerna only do the two pads unfortunately.

Tim


----------



## VIPER

mattyb95 said:


> You beat me to it. I PM'd Clean-my-sxi yesterday to try and give him a bit of a heads up on this so he didn't miss out again. Ordered one myself yesterday, Amazon have about 5 sellers on there all around the £25 mark when you factor in delivery. Just need to order some pads now!
> 
> Do Menzerna only do the 2 types of pad and if so *would the polishing pad with a very fine polish be suitable for finishing or would it still leave some micro marring that would need a proper finishing pad?*
> 
> Also has anybody used a buffing bonnet on this machine and if so does it just fit over a standard pad to offer a quick way of buffing off wax/sealant etc?


Kind of has a lot of variables that which could affect the answer (pads used, polish used, hardness of paint, machine used etc.) Personally speaking I would always go over the area with a finishing pad, but it's by no means a hard and fast rule. For eg. on my XR2 which has solid black (and quite soft) paint, I have finished off with a finishing pad, whereas on the Puma which has a clear coat (and harder paint), I've used SSR2 on a polishing pad and the finish was okay to my eyes without needing to go over it with the finishing pad. So, as I said, it's difficult to answer that question with a simple 'yes' or 'no'.

As for the bonnet, I've not tried that so I don't know. I prefer to manually buff off by hand anyway.


----------



## notsosmall

brookhouse16 said:


> where did you get your pads from?


Like i said there just cheap ones! machine mart was the only place localy that i could get them and the 150mm i got from old stock in autosave for £2 and were good enough but cant get anymore 

think il invest in more expensive ones now i know im going to use the machine

What you could also do is, what i think it was pitviper that said it, get a decent 150mm because there thicker as you can see from my pics and cut it down to fit the 125mm that was youl get more clearence


----------



## VIPER

Yup, that was what I did and they are still working perfectly well and the machine comes nowhere near the paint surface.

Having said that, I don't think I'd do it again, I'd get some 135mm pads and just leave them as they were.


----------



## notsosmall

I can also confirm the mac backing plates do also have the rubber edges.


----------



## VIPER

notsosmall said:


> I can also confirm the mac basking plates do also have the rubber edges.


Ah, right - must have been another one I was checking out in the store then as I looked at them all. My mistake  At least one had a hard, solid backing plate and the hook & loop didn't look like all the rest either so might have had a hard time gripping pads?


----------



## johnnyboy5

link

would this be a good option?

edit: just realised the pad size is 150mm, does that matter much?


----------



## notsosmall

ok then over the past few days in between work and the rain ive had a chance to use the Mac on my subaru! The results are great i thing and beats hand polishing any day of the week.

Click the link to see the pics.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=86343


----------



## johnnyboy5

looks good mate, what pad and polish did you use?


----------



## notsosmall

I just used cheap pads from machine mart, i also seen that machine your looking at i think it would do the same job but why not get what i got?

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9806482&fh_view_size=6&fh_eds=%3f&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB%2fcategories%3c%7b10082%7d%2fcategories%3c%7b10084%7d%2fcategories%3c%7b9181028%7d%2ffeaturesBrand%3dMacAllister&fh_refview=lister&ts=1221955909509&isSearch=false

its cheaper, 3 years warranty ect ect ect

or try some thing the other guys on here have tryed and tested


----------



## mattyb95

What is the wool pad supplied with the Silverline for?


----------



## Ziggy122

Right i've been tempted into trying this RO polishers!
But im still lost with all these pads
I know its gotta be a 6 or 5"

What are the options?
there are the 2 men'z pads, but what would u need to remove swirls?
And be okay with some Men'z Final Finish II
And SRP?

What about the lake country pads? Okay there like £9, where as others are £6 would they be ideal

Some good suggestion pads listed would help alot! 

Ziggy


----------



## mike b

All had been covered here Ziggy: PAD AND POLISH RECOMMENDATIONS


----------



## Ziggy122

mike b said:


> All had been covered here Ziggy: PAD AND POLISH RECOMMENDATIONS


Read it
So the Men'z Polish pad is a good start to be used to remove swirls and oxidiation - with my Men'z FF2 polish it should work a treat! 
Now just to find sumet for SRP 

Edit: The Lake Country (CCS) Black Finessin Pad should be ideal for SRP - it has no cutting action, meaning ideal for SRP as thats a filler and is just rubbed in 
Also quiet tempted to try the White Polishing pad as its ideal for FF2 polish 
Would i need a Blue one tho as well as tho? as the topic listed above didnt really help me 

Ziggy


----------



## mike b

Youll need as a starter set:

A polishing pad of your choice, and a polish. Light cut polish and medium cut polish of your choice is a good start. I use Sonus SFX1/2/3 polishes, and have SP (blue 150x50mm) and Menzerna polishing pads (orange 135x35mm)

Then a finishing pad to have the choice to use the light cut polish with to refine your correction, or to be used with SRP etc for the interim tidy ups . (i use the red 150x50mm finihsing pad from SP)


----------



## Ziggy122

I already have some Men'z FF2
Which removes the need for sonus 1 and possibly 2? as its a swirl and oxidaiation remover already 
Meaning i would only need Sonus 3  to give a deep gloss  Or would SRP do that too?

as for the pads
I' gonna need
1 for the Menz FF2 - The Menzerna Polishing Pad
1 for the sonus - ?? thats where im now stuck 
1 for the SRP - The Lake Country - Black Finessing Pad 

Gonna need some lovely blue m3 tape as well  as i've learnt from hand polishing its a pain to get out of plastic/rubber! :O

Ziggy


----------



## mike b

Ziggy122 said:


> Meaning i would only need Sonus 3  to give a deep gloss  Or would SRP do that too?
> 
> as for the pads
> I' gonna need
> 1 for the Menz FF2 - The Menzerna Polishing Pad
> 1 for the sonus - ?? thats where im now stuck
> 1 for the SRP - The Lake Country - Black Finessing Pad


I think FF2 is similar to SFX1/2 so youd need a final polish to really bring out the work youve done with the FF2, although FF2 may break down to give you an LSP finish. It really is trial and error with polishing as different pad and polish combos give varying levels of cut and shine.

SRP would give you an LSP ready finish, but it would have fillers in it, therefore masking some (if any) final swirls/RDS. Up to you whether you want this happening or not?


----------



## superstat

Hi,

Really soryr to ask this but....I've ordered my silverline and now need the other stuff to go with it.

I have the Menzera Polishing pad and the elite car finishing pad in my basket....I now need a polish....I have what i would call medium swirls on a 57 plate civic....I am thinking of getting the menzerna sample kit....
_
A Sample Kit of the three best polishes in the Menzerna Range:

* Menzerna Intensive Polish - Excellent Medium Cut abilities, perfect for hard German clearcoats
* Menzerna Final Finish Polish P0106FA - Excellent finishing capabilities with enough bite to remove minor defects. 4/10 cut, 9/10 Gloss
* Menzerna Final Finish Polish P085RD - The lightest abrasive of the three, leaves a perfect finish ready for sealants and waxes, 2/10 cut, 10/10 Gloss

All three come in easy to use 250ml bottles with flip-up safety nozzles._

is this a good idea? would 250ml do a car?

thanks in advance and sorry for the repetitive question.

thanks


----------



## mike b

Yes a very good starter kit offering a broad range of different cuts, and 250ml will do many cars!


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

I gave mine a go with SRP this weekend, and, well I was impressed, it made it tonnes easier to apply the stuff.

But my main concern was that it wasn't really working the polish? It seemed to dry out very quickly, now I know SRP does do this, but this seemed to happen very quickly, and the pad rotations would slow greatly when applying a bit of pressure to it.

Obviously I was pressing too hard when it got so slow, but I wondered what your opinions were, should I just guide it lightly just to apply the SRP with no real pressure, or work on a smaller area at a time, and work the polish in more, with the pad spinning relatively slowly (due to pressure)?


----------



## VIPER

Mother-Goose said:


> I gave mine a go with SRP this weekend, and, well I was impressed, it made it tonnes easier to apply the stuff.
> 
> But my main concern was that it wasn't really working the polish? It seemed to dry out very quickly, now I know SRP does do this, but this seemed to happen very quickly, and the pad rotations would slow greatly when applying a bit of pressure to it.
> 
> Obviously I was pressing too hard when it got so slow, but I wondered what your opinions were, should I just guide it lightly just to apply the SRP with no real pressure, or work on a smaller area at a time, and work the polish in more, with the pad spinning relatively slowly (due to pressure)?


SRP does dry out pretty rapidly with this machine, but proper machine polishes don't. Poorboys SSR2 for eg. can be worked almost indefinitely in the garage and even for a quite a long time in the direct sun on warm panels.

I forget which pads you are using but larger pads really do cause it to bog down under pressure. As I've said a few times on various threads about this, the smaller the pad the better it performs. My SP pads which were originally 150mm would stop the machine spinning even under mild pressure, but after making them 130mm (ish) I can apply a huge amount of pressure without it stopping - this isn't advisable obviously and not how I use it, but I'm just illustrating a point.


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Just ordered mine too now - off to buy some pads and polish. If only buying things wasn't so much fun I would be a rich man!


----------



## VIPER

Just a little tip for those who have bought one of these (can't remember if I've said this already, so pardon me if I'm repeating myself here ). As the Silverline, in common with a lot of other DA 'sanders', has only a relatively small throw to the action of the plate, just stick the pad on very slightly off centre in the direction of the offset to exaggerate it and therefore slightly increase the throw action by a couple of mm.


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> Just a little tip for those who have bought one of these (can't remember if I've said this already, so pardon me if I'm repeating myself here ). As the Silverline, in common with a lot of other DA 'sanders', has only a relatively small throw to the action of the plate, just stick the pad on very slightly off centre in the direction of the offset to exaggerate it and therefore slightly increase the throw action by a couple of mm.


QUALITY tip


----------



## mike b

GeeJay said:


> QUALITY tip


Already put into action! Cheers for that PM Pit Viper!


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

Nice one pit :thumb:

I'm using the black 3m finishing pad, I tried it off centre last night and saw an immediate improvement!

I've been reading up on SSR2, it seems to be quite mild, so could be worth a whirl, although a friend of mine has some autobalm so I'm going to give that a go I get a chance! Cheers for the info though! I also found giving the pad regular spritz's of water helped keep it all lubed up (ooo err missus!)


----------



## mattyb95

Been looking at pads and polish, didn't realise the 3M stuff was so expensive, is it worth it?

Got a stone chip fixed by a pro from here couple of weeks ago and he used 3M pads and polish so interested in knowing if its worth it as my car was new in January and shockingly the dealer's didn't screw it up so its not too badly swirled (although it is a Seat so harder VAG paint) so not really too sure where to start with polish and ~£50 for two 3M polishes seems a lot but don't think I'd have need for the heavy cutting stuff in the Menzerna starter kit.


----------



## mike b

Mother-Goose said:


> Nice one pit :thumb:
> 
> I'm using the black 3m finishing pad, I tried it off centre last night and saw an immediate improvement!
> 
> I've been reading up on SSR2, it seems to be quite mild, so could be worth a whirl, although a friend of mine has some autobalm so I'm going to give that a go I get a chance! Cheers for the info though! I also found giving the pad regular spritz's of water helped keep it all lubed up (ooo err missus!)


Id be wary of using a machine to apply autobalm! Read up on here and you'll soon see that very small applications at a time, and almost immediate wiping off is necessary, not really a machine compatible polish/lsp really imo?


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

Just had a read about it Mike, cheers for the heads-up. I'll stick with the SRP at the moment and see if I can refine my technique a bit! Eventually I will work up to the other polishes though.


----------



## rob3rto

Just called Kingdomtools. They say that the Silverline part number has changed but it is EXACTLY the same machine.

Anyone confirm that? Original number published here is 589670. What is the one that you got?

Next, pads and polish etc.



My car is an Alfa 156. Any recommendations on pads and polishes? Just want to remove most of the swirls.

Cheers


----------



## farcrygamer

rob3rto said:


> Just called Kingdomtools. They say that the Silverline part number has changed but it is EXACTLY the same machine.
> 
> Anyone confirm that? Original number published here is 589670. What is the one that you got?
> 
> Next, pads and polish etc.
> 
> My car is an Alfa 156. Any recommendations on pads and polishes? Just want to remove most of the swirls.
> 
> Cheers


Pads and polish wise for alfa,

-Lake country 5.5" yellow, white and black pad

-Poorboys ssr 2.5 via white or yellow, followed by Poorboys ssr2 or eventualy ssr 1 on black finishing or white polishing pad.

that combo will work fast enough to break down properly and will remove most of the swirls easily.:wave:

dozens of other combos will do as well.


----------



## Step_7

Bought one of the MacAlister ones from B&Q today - just researching pads etc. and I'll be ordering a selection at the weekend. Was considering a G220 until I came across this thread - got to be worth a shot at £30 as I'll not be needing to use it every week.


----------



## VIPER

Been using my Silverline all day today (treated myself to a day off ) and it's BROKEN!!!!  
LOL! Only joking, it's not missed a beat and my hands aren't 'buzzing' or anything. I've been giving the XR2 a buff over with SSR2 on an SP 'Red' finishing pad to get out a few RDS that were inflicted during a brief period when it was forced to live outside under a cover. Don't really know why I'm posting this as I've no pics  but just wanted to say it felt solid and unbreakable during almost a full day's use. I've had mine for about 3-4 months now and it's been used quite a bit during that time. I might be tempting fate writing that as it probably _will_ break now 

EDIT: Bloody 'ell - just noticed, this thread's had over 14,000 views!


----------



## O`Neil

I`ve just rated this thread 5 stars as it`s so good :lol: :thumb:


----------



## rob3rto

Just got home to find Kingdom~Tools delivered it today.

Blimey, quick post for only £5

One problem!!!

They delivered am orange Silverline alright, but NOT the model number quoted here.

What they delivered looks exactly the same BUT the manual/box/unit says 

Product Code 289446
Hi-Spec 125mm Random Orbital Sander
450W motor
No load speed 4,000 to 12,000 RPM

AND, to top it off, the manual has June 2006 printed on it.


What did everyone else receive?


----------



## O`Neil

I`m sure I read on here somewhere that the model number had changed, not sure though.


----------



## robrobc

rob3rto........I think I got the same as you.......only at this time of night I cannot be arsed to go to the garage to find out 

I will have a look and check in the morning but seriously I think I got the same as you and it works well.


----------



## GeeJay

Just waiting on my menz polishes then my car's getting a hit this weekend! I'll be sure to get pics and post!

ps...mike_b's got pics of swirl correction he emailed me. i'll get him to post them and say what products he used - i'm VERY impressed with what he achieved! 

G


----------



## m411mtf

rob3rto said:


> Just got home to find Kingdom~Tools delivered it today.
> 
> Blimey, quick post for only £5
> 
> One problem!!!
> 
> They delivered am orange Silverline alright, but NOT the model number quoted here.
> 
> What they delivered looks exactly the same BUT the manual/box/unit says
> 
> Product Code 289446
> Hi-Spec 125mm Random Orbital Sander
> 450W motor
> No load speed 4,000 to 12,000 RPM
> 
> AND, to top it off, the manual has June 2006 printed on it.
> 
> What did everyone else receive?


I got exactly the same as you including the 2006 manual but I bought mine from Amazon. Another bonus was that the box had 4 packs of spare brushes in it and 2 dust bags as well!! :thumb: No doubt the wife will have me sanding our kitchen table before too long!

I really can't believe how popular this thing has become. 5 of my colleagues have now ordered one each after seeing how my Pineapple Astra turned out. We should be on commission! :lol:


----------



## mattyb95

farcrygamer said:


> Pads and polish wise for alfa,
> 
> -Lake country 5.5" yellow, white and black pad
> 
> -Poorboys ssr 2.5 via white or yellow, followed by Poorboys ssr2 or eventualy ssr 1 on black finishing or white polishing pad.
> 
> that combo will work fast enough to break down properly and will remove most of the swirls easily.:wave:
> 
> dozens of other combos will do as well.


Thought Lake Country only did 6.5" pads? If not, where can you get these 5.5" ones from and are they the CCS ones?

(Oh and I got the same model mentioned recently frm Amazon, can't see how its any different)


----------



## mike b

GeeJay said:


> ps...mike_b's got pics of swirl correction he emailed me. i'll get him to post them and say what products he used - i'm VERY impressed with what he achieved!
> 
> G


As we all love a nice picture of the results to reassure us, here is what i achieved when testing on my gf's red 206.

Polisher: Silverline £20 jobby
Polish used on this section: Sonus SFX2
Pad: Serious performance Blue 150mmx50mm polishing pad. (although ive now changed as i couldnt get it to spin as easily as id like, im guessing due to the size!)

Anyway, heres some before and after pics:

















As you can see, you can do complete correction with this machine!

Hope this helps,
Mike


----------



## GeeJay

Sexyyyyyy


----------



## rob3rto

Thanks for the reassurance guys.

Just concerned me that one minute (when I was ordering over the phone), Kingdom had the 589670 model on their website.

When the unit arrived and I looked on the Silverline site, they had the 289446 listed as a replacement of the 589670 BUT the manual is dated June 2006.

Confused, you bet!

At least I can rest easy...

1) Only £20
2) Results above look great!
3) I can always sell it to a mate ;o)


----------



## superstat

Mike_b your results look awesome...

My Mezerna Polishing pad arrived yesterday and also my elite car fiinishing pad....the difference between the two is amazing...the merz is really hard compared...

I have swirls I would like to remove from Honda Civic paint and am hoping I can get away with a finishing pad plus PO85RD..

Just need the Silverline now...

Thanks for posting pictures..


----------



## mattyb95

Just a thought has anybody checked paint thickness after using one of these machines to make sure that the reason its getting good correction is its blitzing away the top coat?


----------



## VIPER

I'll be sending a PM to every member who's posted on this thread (and all associated ones) with my Paypal details so you can all thank me for bringing this machine to everyone's attention in the only way I'll turely appreciate - money  :lol: :lol:


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> I'll be sending a PM to every member who's posted on this thread (and all associated ones) with my Paypal details so you can all thank me for bringing this machine to everyone's attention in the only way I'll turely appreciate - money  :lol: :lol:


Payment sent. :thumb:

£0.01 :devil:


----------



## GeeJay

mattyb95 said:


> Just a thought has anybody checked paint thickness after using one of these machines to make sure that the reason its getting good correction is its blitzing away the top coat?


I cant see how the machine is having a detrimental effect any more so than a PC or G220? If you're using the same pads and polishes between the machines, the results must surely be similar?


----------



## Qook

I have just ordered one from Kingdom Tools. 

I was thinking I was going to do everything by hand as the expense of the recommended tools was too high for dipping my toe in a new hobby/obsession, but these are a bargain.

Now I have to thinks about polishes and pads, but there is some great advice kicking around in this (and other threads) so it shouldn't be too hard. Too bad I had just bought a Sonus SFX and a bunch of other hand-application stuff (maybe I should hide some of this stuff from the wife and trickle it out over a few months).

Thanks to everyone who made this thread great and special thanks to Pit Viper whoes research and information just bough machine polishing a lot closer to a whole bunch of people.


----------



## swompdonkey

Qook said:


> (maybe I should hide some of this stuff from the wife and trickle it out over a few months).


You mean you haven't stated doing this yet.. I thought all Detailing World members had to do this as part of signing up to the forum, was in the T's & C's.. We may need and admin to check this..


----------



## Gandi

swompdonkey said:


> You mean you haven't stated doing this yet.. *I thought all Detailing World members had to do this as part of signing up to the forum*, was in the T's & C's.. We may need and admin to check this..


:lol::lol::lol: So True


----------



## Qook

swompdonkey said:


> You mean you haven't stated doing this yet.. I thought all Detailing World members had to do this as part of signing up to the forum, was in the T's & C's.. We may need and admin to check this..


Heh, luckily my first order of kit hasn't arrived yet so I am not technically in breach yet. 

One thing she must never find out is the cost of the grit guard and bucket. I can see it now...

Wife: "You paid how much for a bucket?!"
Me: "But darling, it has this plastic thing in the bottom that stops... yowch, stop beating me! No, that is not plasticene."


----------



## mattyb95

GeeJay said:


> I cant see how the machine is having a detrimental effect any more so than a PC or G220? If you're using the same pads and polishes between the machines, the results must surely be similar?


Hopefully that is the case but it doesn't have as much throw as a G220 apparently so was just wondering if it was working more like a rotary than the G220 does so building up more heat or putting more power through the polish and pads and so taking off more than you would expect.

Anybody done any paint measurements before and after?


----------



## mike b

I didnt do any paint measurements, but as geejay said, its a DA polisher, with less throw than a G220/PC/UDM therefore taking slightly longer to break down the polishes, and therefore slower working times than a G220/PC/UDM therefore even safer?!

Bare in mind the cutting action is also governed by the type of polish and pads used rememeber. Lots of factors to account for!

Only solid evidence with a paint depth guage will answer for certain, but thats my take on it anyway


----------



## superstat

My Silverline has just arrived from Amazon....

Now I may be being completely stupid but it only works when set to max. The button clicks when it gets to max then will turn on but as soon as i try to change the speed it cuts out...

Defective?


----------



## mike b

Sound broken to me im afraid! Mine works on 1, then gets faster through to the max setting.


----------



## superstat

Bum. Hopefully it will be a straightforward swap...


----------



## VIPER

superstat said:


> My Silverline has just arrived from Amazon....
> 
> Now I may be being completely stupid but it only works when set to max. The button clicks when it gets to max then will turn on but as soon as i try to change the speed it cuts out...
> 
> Defective?


Yes, I'm afraid so, mate - it should just gradually increase speed and then at speed No.6 it 'clicks' to lock it on that speed (not that you should really be using it on the fast one anyway )


----------



## superstat

Pit Viper said:


> Yes, I'm afraid so, mate - it should just gradually increase speed and then at speed No.6 it 'clicks' to lock it on that speed (not that you should really be using it on the fast one anyway )


Thats what I thought. I have contacted the seller although the little negative feedback they have seems to indicate that communication with their customers is a problem. The returns policy also states that if the goods are defective they have no liablity to me unless I contact them in writing within 10 days at their contact address. Guess what, the contact address is non existent. hmmm. crossed fingers.

_UPDATE: I have recieved a full refund and have been told to keep the machine as the seller no longer stocks these. He said he is restocking with the heavy duty green machine? Anyway i'll have a fiddle with this one tonight see if I can get it working. _


----------



## VIPER

mattyb95 said:


> Hopefully that is the case but it doesn't have as much throw as a G220 apparently so was just wondering if it was working more like a rotary than the G220 does so building up more heat or putting more power through the polish and pads and so taking off more than you would expect.
> 
> Anybody done any paint measurements before and after?


It's not working like a rotary as it's only spinning the pad at about 1-3 times per second so is much like a G220/PC/UDM in this respect rather than 1000+ RPM for a rotary and in my experience it doesnt get the panel hot, just barely warm. As said by a few others it also has a smaller offset throw (albiet with a slightly higher OPM) so although it takes a bit longer to break down polishes and achieve similar levels of correction, it also has to be a bit safer, in theory anyway.


----------



## O`Neil

Hey Mike, do you work for CSI? 

Super work there, it fills me with confidence, I can`t wait to get started now 



mike b said:


> Anyway, heres some before and after pics:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Mike


----------



## GeeJay

Qook said:


> Too bad I had just bought a Sonus SFX and a bunch of other hand-application stuff


Qook, welcome to the forums :thumb:

All you'll really need are pads of your choice. You can use the Sonus SFX range with this polisher and achieve great results! (see mike b's pics above)

There are some 3m ones that would be PERFECT in the 'Group Buys' section 
Alternatively, Lake Country, Menzerna, Megs or even Serious Performance own brand pads will all suffice  So long as they are velcro backed.

Maybe the Mrs won't mind 'only another £15' on pads 

G


----------



## Qook

GeeJay said:


> Qook, welcome to the forums :thumb:
> 
> All you'll really need are pads of your choice. You can use the Sonus SFX range with this polisher and achieve great results! (see mike b's pics above)
> 
> There are some 3m ones that would be PERFECT in the 'Group Buys' section
> Alternatively, Lake Country, Menzerna, Megs or even Serious Performance own brand pads will all suffice  So long as they are velcro backed.
> 
> Maybe the Mrs won't mind 'only another £15' on pads
> 
> G


Thanks for the welcome.

I was thinking of the Menzerra pads as they seem to be the only 5" pads around (unless I am missing something). My only concern being will the polishing pad (orange) be gentle enough to take things to an LSP stage or would I need a separate finisher pad?


----------



## GeeJay

Qook said:


> Thanks for the welcome.
> 
> I was thinking of the Menzerra pads as they seem to be the only 5" pads around (unless I am missing something). My only concern being will the polishing pad (orange) be gentle enough to take things to an LSP stage or would I need a separate finisher pad?


Pit Viper has 6" pads which fit the machine, but found the surface area bogged the machine down a little. He cut them down carefully to make them 5" and got much less bogging down.

Mike's pictures were achieved with Serious Performance 6" pads, at 6".

The 3m pads in the group buy section are 5.25" i think? anyway - pretty much the size you want/need. Also, the Menz pads are 5" and would be perfect fit.

I'd be tempted to try and match the 'cut' of pads and polishes if i'm honest. A cutting pad with a cutting polish will give more cut than a cutting pad with a finishing polish. But a finishing pad and polish will eliminate any holograms or light marring left from the previous stage.

Entirely up to you, i feel a cutting pad and finishing polish will be jsut fine, but personally, it's only £5 or so extra for the proper job  You'll notice the difference in coarseness of the two pads too by touch.


----------



## Qook

Are there any issues associated with cutting pads down? Is there danger of marring if you get the edges the wrong shape?


----------



## GeeJay

Not as far as I'm aware. Best off waiting for Pit Viper's input.

Saying that, I think the pads are around the same price, so if you can get 5" or 5.25" pads from the off, I'd advise it on other people's experiences


----------



## VIPER

Qook said:


> Are there any issues associated with cutting pads down? Is there danger of marring if you get the edges the wrong shape?


Nope, not with mine they didn't - I did take great care to make sure I made a good job though and also 'bevelled' the edge a bit around the circumference.

As I've mentioned before though, I wouldn't do it again - not because it doesn't work or is in any way detrimental to the performance, but because there are 5" pads available that I was unaware of at the time. And also, being the first one of us to get the machine, I was unaware of the issue regarding pad spin speed with larger pads. Note also that these SP pads I trimmed down were 2" thick so in addition to the 6" diameter were just a little too bulky - thinner pads at 6" might well be okay?


----------



## mattyb95

Pit Viper said:


> Nope, not with mine they didn't - I did take great care to make sure I made a good job though and also 'bevelled' the edge a bit around the circumference.
> 
> As I've mentioned before though, I wouldn't do it again - not because it doesn't work or is in any way detrimental to the performance, but because there are 5" pads available that I was unaware of at the time. And also, being the first one of us to get the machine, I was unaware of the issue regarding pad spin speed with larger pads. Note also that these SP pads I trimmed down were 2" thick so in addition to the 6" diameter were just a little too bulky - thinner pads at 6" might well be okay?


How did you cut them down out of interest?


----------



## mike b

The 3m pads in the GB section are sold out btw. 

Also the Menz pads are 135mm, therefore 5 1/4 too


----------



## O`Neil

mike b said:


> The 3m pads in the GB section are sold out btw.


I beleive the OP of that group buy now has some more available, perhaps try PM him


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Qook said:


> Wife: "You paid how much for a bucket?!"
> Me: "But darling, it has this plastic thing in the bottom that stops... yowch, stop beating me! No, that is not plasticene."


LOL - that made me laugh hard :lol:


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Indeed he has:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150298495391


----------



## maersk

Excellent thread and simply reinforces what I have thought all along G220 :buffer: and ilk are vastly overpriced for what they are. I have used a Bosch Pex DA with a DAS scratchbuster pad and removed wet sanding marks on touch up blobs. 

Long live the cheap DA sander polisher!!!!


----------



## _daveR

Qook said:


> Wife: "You paid how much for a bucket?!"
> Me: "But darling, it has this plastic thing in the bottom that stops... yowch, stop beating me! No, that is not plasticene."


And another :lol:

My Mrs was exactly the same, huge box from Elite with a couple of buckets and a load of other stuff. That took some explaining!

Now all deliveries go straight out to the garage and get opened out there!


----------



## mattyb95

nice just ordered one!


----------



## _daveR

Good to see this thread still running  

I'm going to have a go with some CK Vanilla Moose Glaze on the Megane this weekend I think.


----------



## Ziggy122

Amazon - The Ornage Silverline DA sander - No longer selling 

I noticed they went from 19.99 to 21.93

edit:
Okay my bad
The Frlith Group wont sell one on ebay,
But amazon does one for the same 1
for 24.71... gotta be fricking kidding me!

Ziggy


----------



## Step_7

Ziggy122 said:


> The Frlith Group wont sell one on ebay,
> But amazon does one for the same 1
> for 24.71... gotta be fricking kidding me!


Yeah, but the Amazon price includes the postage so it's about the same really.


----------



## mazda3_daveg

_daveR said:


> I'm going to have a go with some CK Vanilla Moose Glaze on the Megane this weekend I think.


Just had a look at the Red Moose Glaze and it looks like good stuff. I'm gonna get some for when I first use my Silverline. I figured it would be a good beginner DA product as it seems you can't go wrong with it. When I have got comfortable with the Silverline I will progress to some light abrasive polishes. I am so worried of using abrasive products on a machine polisher without a PTG!

Sound like the right thing to do daveR?


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

Dave, I've just ordered from SSR2.5, when I get back from Dubai I'll let you know if it's any good, but on paper sounds like it could be a winner with this machine.


----------



## _daveR

mazda3_daveg said:


> Just had a look at the Red Moose Glaze and it looks like good stuff. I'm gonna get some for when I first use my Silverline. I figured it would be a good beginner DA product as it seems you can't go wrong with it. When I have got comfortable with the Silverline I will progress to some light abrasive polishes. I am so worried of using abrasive products on a machine polisher without a PTG!
> 
> Sound like the right thing to do daveR?


I don't think you need to worry too much mate.

I've attacked this old Impreza bonnet I've got with some Megs #83 and had loads and loads of passes over it now (the yellow pad is now pretty much red!) and there is no damage.

I'd say that with this machine you don't have too much to worry about.

RMG is supposed to be very good on darker colours though.


----------



## Kaz

I ordered one from Amazon when I first spotted this thread earlier this week, it arrived yesterday and my order of pads and polishes are due from Elite Car Care today. Hopefully I can get some practice in this weekend.

This thread is great, I have been debating whether to get a G220 for ages - so thanks to everyone who contributed.


----------



## VIPER

mattyb95 said:


> How did you cut them down out of interest?


With one of those retractable craft knives that have snap off sections, extended out to the full length giving about a 3" long blade. With a brand new blade in it was easy


----------



## O`Neil

If anyone is struggling to find a Silverline then Transtools have them, though I notice the price has gone up, must be the high demand for this item in recent weeks :lol:

http://www.transtools.co.uk/store/p...9670-hi-spec-125mm-random-orbital-sander.html


----------



## theshrew

mazda3_daveg said:


> Indeed he has:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150298495391


What are these pads ? Cut, polish or finishing ?

Anyone help


----------



## bidderman1969

theshrew said:


> What are these pads ? Cut, polish or finishing ?
> 
> Anyone help


3M *Polishing *Finesse IT Black Velcro back pads Polish


----------



## rob3rto

Went to my local Lidl yesterday and noticed they are selling a Parkside (own brand?) RO Sander for £22

No spec on the box except 2000 to 8000rpm (IIRC)

Looks similar to Silverline except it has a D handle.


----------



## rob3rto

Just ordered some of the polishing pads above on ebay.

While looking for some other stuff, came across a sample pack of Menzerna polish 3 x 250ml

A Sample Kit of the three best polishes in the Menzerna Range for £20

Menzerna Intensive Polish - Excellent Medium Cut abilities, perfect for hard German clearcoats 

Menzerna Final Finish Polish P0106FA - Excellent finishing capabilities with enough bite to remove minor defects. 4/10 cut, 9/10 Gloss 

Menzerna Final Finish Polish P085RD - The lightest abrasive of the three, leaves a perfect finish ready for sealants and waxes, 2/10 cut, 10/10 Gloss


Would this be a good thing to start off with?

Also, other pad should I get, along with the polishing one above?


----------



## bidderman1969

a finishing pad, megs are good ones


----------



## mike b

rob3rto said:


> A Sample Kit of the three best polishes in the Menzerna Range for £20
> 
> Menzerna Intensive Polish - Excellent Medium Cut abilities, perfect for hard German clearcoats
> 
> Menzerna Final Finish Polish P0106FA - Excellent finishing capabilities with enough bite to remove minor defects. 4/10 cut, 9/10 Gloss
> 
> Menzerna Final Finish Polish P085RD - The lightest abrasive of the three, leaves a perfect finish ready for sealants and waxes, 2/10 cut, 10/10 Gloss
> 
> Would this be a good thing to start off with?


Geejay has bought this kit, and is a highly regarded polish on this forum, we will be using it on his MR2 tomorrow. Im sure he will oblige with a write up for everyone


----------



## rob3rto

mike b said:


> Geejay has bought this kit, and is a highly regarded polish on this forum, we will be using it on his MR2 tomorrow. Im sure he will oblige with a write up for everyone


I'll wait for the results then.

May have jumped the gun at buying the GB 3M Polishing pads.

Really have NO idea what pads to buy!


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Hmm I need some finishing pads to go with the 3M polishing pad I just bought. I wish Mr Singh had some finishing ones at the same price!


----------



## superstat

I have action! I am now fully fledged in Silverline DA repair 

Can't use it until sunday though :-(

I have the Elite Cars Finishing pad....i'll report back on it on Sunday...

I am happy!


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Glad you got yours today. Fed Ex mixed up my parcel so I won't have it for the weekend :wall:


----------



## superstat

I got mine a few days ago but it didn't work so I have had it apart and resoldered the board. Now it does


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Was that the Amazon one? Works out as a free DA machine


----------



## Qook

Heh, the tool might only cost £20 but three pads and two types of polish are going to set me back £40.

Settled on Menzerna pads (orange and white) and a 3M Finesse pad. Am probably going for Poorboy's SSR1 and SSR2.

I will see how I get on with this setup. I might look at SSR 2.5 at some point.


----------



## superstat

mazda3_daveg said:


> Was that the Amazon one? Works out as a free DA machine


Yup. :buffer:


----------



## Kaz

rob3rto said:


> Just ordered some of the polishing pads above on ebay.
> 
> While looking for some other stuff, came across a sample pack of Menzerna polish 3 x 250ml
> 
> A Sample Kit of the three best polishes in the Menzerna Range for £20
> 
> Menzerna Intensive Polish - Excellent Medium Cut abilities, perfect for hard German clearcoats
> 
> Menzerna Final Finish Polish P0106FA - Excellent finishing capabilities with enough bite to remove minor defects. 4/10 cut, 9/10 Gloss
> 
> Menzerna Final Finish Polish P085RD - The lightest abrasive of the three, leaves a perfect finish ready for sealants and waxes, 2/10 cut, 10/10 Gloss
> 
> Would this be a good thing to start off with?
> 
> Also, other pad should I get, along with the polishing one above?


That's what I bought from ECC - I tried it today with a Menz pads and I'm so very impressed! I only used the orange polishing pad with IP and it's removed some scratches from my roof with very little effort, I don't have a halogen to highlight the swirl removal, but I'm chuffed with the result.

My only issue was when I had finished for the day, the orange Menz pad had come away from the backing, all the way round about a centimetre or so in. What would cause this? Heat? (I did wonder if I was putting too much pressure on it). This was after about an hour and a half of pretty much constant use.


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Reposting here as I didn't get any response in the polish sub-forum:

I am really struggling - have read TONS of posts on polishes and pads but every time I settle on a combination I read something else to confuse me!

I have just bought a Silverline RO and will be using it on my Mazda 3 as well as other family members cars. I have chosen the following:

3M Finesse IT Polishing Pad
??? Finishing Pad

Menz PO85RD3.02 or PO91L (any preference?)
Menz PO85RD

Red Moose Glaze for using on it's own or after polishing before some Colly 915.

Would this be a good starting kit? I want easy to use products that aren't going to dry out quick and will be easy for me to work. I read that the abrasives in some polishes get finer as they are worked to produce a better finish. How do I find out what polishes are like this - it sounds best for me as I won't be worried about working them too long!

Thanks so much - help me in this confusion!


----------



## mattyb95

mazda3_daveg said:


> Hmm I need some finishing pads to go with the 3M polishing pad I just bought. I wish Mr Singh had some finishing ones at the same price!


Are they not finishing pads though? The description is a bit contradictory as the title says polishing pad but the words under the pictures says finishing pad?


----------



## patton

ok ive decided to go for the b&q one a few pages back can someone advise me on some good swirk remover and scratch remover thats not to harsh and also some pads that will go on my new polisher? here is the link i mainly just want to get minor scratches and swirl marks from my black car...

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/n...refview=search&ts=1222640214844&isSearch=true

your hep is uch appreciated guys i'm a newbie and dont want to mess this up.


----------



## 3dr

i would start off with something like SRP and soft pad, and work from there, harsher compound/polish still soft pad, SRP slightly harder pad, harsher compound/polish slightly harder pad etc you get the idea, if it helps i used Ultrafina SE and a 3M Black waffle pad today, the working time was great, the compound broke down nicely, and worked long enough to burnish the paint well enough to get rid of some defects and soften others, i will try a harsher compound next with same pad HTH


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Cheers for your post 3dr - helpful info and makes the thought of the first polishing session a lot less worrying!



mattyb95 said:


> Are they not finishing pads though? The description is a bit contradictory as the title says polishing pad but the words under the pictures says finishing pad?


Just checked and 3M black ones are polishing - blue are finishing. Apparently 3M pads are softer than others so the black can actually be used as a finishing pad with fine polishes.


----------



## GeeJay

Morning all  

Just a quick report from the weekend's progress, and to put everyone's doubts to rest.

I used the Silverline DA paired with Menz sample kit (I only used Intensive polish, then Final Finish polish) and OH MY GOD what results!

Mike B and I started off with different pads. Mike had a Menz cutting pad, and I was using the 6" 50mm thick Serious Performance blue cutting pad. The Menz pad was absolutely fantastic, allowing plenty of pressure to be applied, breaking down the polish nicely and also spinning 2 times per second. The same couldnt be said for the SP pads. I found great difficulty in breaking down the polishes, and i couldnt apply ANY pressure to allow it to spin at 2 times per second. 
I then decided to cut it down to about the size of the menz pad, but didnt really see any improvement.

So that meant Mike went around the entire car with the Intensive Polish on the Menz pad, and i followed with the Final Finish Polish on a cut down SP Red pad, which actually worked really well 

The only thing we both found is that the backing plate on the machine cuts into the pad quite a lot after doing a whole car. Has anyone else found this?

G

I'll get pics up as soon as i can upload them.


----------



## VIPER

GeeJay said:


> Morning all
> 
> Just a quick report from the weekend's progress, and to put everyone's doubts to rest.
> 
> I used the Silverline DA paired with Menz sample kit (I only used Intensive polish, then Final Finish polish) and OH MY GOD what results!
> 
> Mike B and I started off with different pads. Mike had a Menz cutting pad, and I was using the 6" 50mm thick Serious Performance blue cutting pad. The Menz pad was absolutely fantastic, allowing plenty of pressure to be applied, breaking down the polish nicely and also spinning 2 times per second. The same couldnt be said for the SP pads. I found great difficulty in breaking down the polishes, and i couldnt apply ANY pressure to allow it to spin at 2 times per second.
> I then decided to cut it down to about the size of the menz pad, but didnt really see any improvement.
> 
> So that meant Mike went around the entire car with the Intensive Polish on the Menz pad, and i followed with the Final Finish Polish on a cut down SP Red pad, which actually worked really well
> 
> The only thing we both found is that the backing plate on the machine cuts into the pad quite a lot after doing a whole car. Has anyone else found this?
> 
> G
> 
> I'll get pics up as soon as i can upload them.


Okay I'll just address a couple of points here 

Surprised you didn't have any success after modifying the SP pads - mine spin at over 2 per second now (the blue one under pressure I'd say was about 3-4, and the red finishing pad at even more than that).

As for the backing plate cutting into the pad - I don't think it's the plate that's doing it. On mine the blue SP pad suffers from terrible foam disintegration around the edge where it meets the felt, and has to be re-glued back on every time, yet the red SP pad has been used many times and is still in perfect condition. If it were the backing plate the same thing would happen on both pads, but I think it's the less dense cell structure of the blue pad that is sufferring with the vibrations in use and breaking down.

Glad you've both had success with the machine though - it seems I've discovered quite a gem here! Pity nobody seems to be selling them anymore though. I had my Toolstation catalogue the other day (where I got mine from) and it's no longer in there.


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> mine spin at over 2 per second now (the blue one under pressure I'd say was about 3-4, and the red finishing pad at even more than that).
> 
> I don't think it's the plate that's doing it.


Thinknig about it, i should have tried my cut down pads on a different machine. They spin nice and fast when in the air, but as soon as i touch the paint, I have to pretty much only apply the weight of the machine to get it to spin.

You could well be right about the backing plate, because the red pad isnt actually too badly split. Once I cut it down though, to the size of the velcro, it totally stopped the splitting of the pads 

Either way, I'm happy with the results, and the pads are still useable 

Pics:

Finding it a bit hard to pick out defects with the point and shoot, but you can see the general condition...


































Before:









After:









Before:









After (note drainpipe and cladding clarity):









Sun Shot NO SWIRLS! (holograms weren't machine induced...a QD wipedown with a dry MF removed them totally):


----------



## mike b

Last shot shows really nice flake pop!

Really enjoyed the day, and chanign to the menz pads changed my opinion on this machine completely! So much better, span up no problem unlike the SP pads even under good rpessure. And was another chance to hone my skills with it. Also achieving around 90%+ correction from one pass of 85rd 3.02 and then FF was nice!

Full correction detail coming to my car in the next few weeks so ill post up results then too


----------



## VIPER

Thinking about it, i should have tried my cut down pads on a different machine. They spin nice and fast when in the air, but as soon as i touch the paint, I have to pretty much only apply the weight of the machine to get it to spin.

You could well be right about the backing plate, because the red pad isnt actually too badly split. Once I cut it down though, to the size of the velcro, it totally stopped the splitting of the pads 

Either way, I'm happy with the results, and the pads are still useable 


Finding it a bit hard to pick out defects with the point and shoot, but you can see the general condition...




Those shots look great :thumb:

So just to confirm then, that was achieved with Menz 5" pad followed by the cut down SP red finishing pad? Which Menz pad was it - the compound or the polishing one?


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> Those shots look great :thumb:
> 
> So just to confirm then, that was achieved with Menz 5" pad followed by the cut down SP red finishing pad? Which Menz pad was it - the compound or the polishing one?


Thanks 

Just noticed there are 2 pads.

To clarify:
Menz Polishing pad with PO85RD 3.02, followed by
SP Red Finishing cut to 5" with Final Finish Polish P085RD 

G


----------



## VIPER

I think my SP blue polishing pad has only one more performance left in it before it gets beyond repair, so I'll defo be getting one of those Menz polishing pads to replace it. Still happy with the SP red though


----------



## bluenose

I had my silverline running with Megs #83 on a white Lake Country pad over the weekend. I tried it both in original 6" form and also cut down but I couldn't get the pad to spin at all once any pressure was applied. The weight of the machine was enough to stop the pad rotating....
I'm confused as to why the pad won't spin? It spins fine in the air. Is it down to too much polish or just a bad pad choice?

Thanks


----------



## VIPER

bluenose said:


> I had my silverline running with Megs #83 on a white Lake Country pad over the weekend. I tried it both in original 6" form and also cut down but I couldn't get the pad to spin at all once any pressure was applied. The weight of the machine was enough to stop the pad rotating....
> I'm confused as to why the pad won't spin? It spins fine in the air. Is it down to too much polish or just a bad pad choice?
> 
> Thanks


That seems odd, mate? I can maybe understand it when it was 6" but my 'cut down' 5" pads spin with no problem (at about 2-3 revs per second) and even increase with more pressure to about 4-5 with the finishing pad).

If I knew how to put video footage on-line I'd film it on the camera and post it up to show you...but I don't


----------



## Mr. B

For those who haven't taken the plunge yet, kingdom tools still have 'em, as do various traders on amazon. You can also buy direct from silverline via their website. Kingdom tools look to be the cheapest tho. I've had to wait til payday (tomorrow!!) before ordering. Can't wait to get cracking on the A4, it's been bloody hard work by hand!


----------



## bluenose

Cheers Pit Viper, it seems odd to me. 
I think I've seen youtube links here before as a way of getting vids up. 
I'll check it out tonight... I'm just starting to wonder whether I have a duff machine!

On the positive side I'm really chuffed with the level of correction I achieved with a couple of passes. When I sort the pad issue, I'll try and get some pics up.


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> If I knew how to put video footage on-line I'd film it on the camera and post it up to show you...but I don't


Sign up to Youtube here:

http://www.youtube.com/signup?next=/index

Once you've recorded the video, you can easily upload to youtube using their wizard thingy. You'll find that under 'Account' --> 'My Videos' --> 'New' --> 'Video Upload'

You can easily upload all sorts of video formats, such as .WMV, .AVI, .MOV, MPEG, .MP4, DivX, .FLV and .OGG. It also supports 3GP from mobiles.

Most digital camera's use .AVI's to record videos with sound


----------



## VIPER

GeeJay said:


> Sign up to Youtube here:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/signup?next=/index
> 
> Once you've recorded the video, you can easily upload to youtube using their wizard thingy. You'll find that under 'Account' --> 'My Videos' --> 'New' --> 'Video Upload'
> 
> You can easily upload all sorts of video formats, such as .WMV, .AVI, .MOV, MPEG, .MP4, DivX, .FLV and .OGG. It also supports 3GP from mobiles.
> 
> Most digital camera's use .AVI's to record videos with sound


Could I use my photobucket account as well (although I'm on my second one now as my XR2 picture thread on here from a few weeks back sent the first one over the bandwidth and I had to open a new one. I don't really want to have to open a 3rd one if I can help it so I'll look at the youtube info - cheers :thumb


----------



## rob3rto

Pit Viper said:


> Could I use my photobucket account as well (although I'm on my second one now as my XR2 picture thread on here from a few weeks back sent the first one over the bandwidth and I had to open a new one. I don't really want to have to open a 3rd one if I can help it so I'll look at the youtube info - cheers :thumb


You can use photobucket for video but as you say, there is a bandwidth issue.

On youtube, the more hits the better.

Would be useful to see even for "technique" for us noobs who are so afraid to even start


----------



## Qook

Mine arrived today.

The pads haven't arrived yet, but I tested in in the office to make sure it works; they are loud little beasties, aren't they? Hopefully using it outside won't be as bad.

As many others have commented, it is heavy, solid and rugged feeling. Here is hoping for a good weekend.


----------



## gardian

I went for the B&Q one, as it comes with a 3 year garentee, got it the other week, and i am also having difficulties picking a pad and polish combo. I was thinking of:
SSR1 + SSR2 (poorboys)
Elite car care coolfoam Orange light cut waffle pad
Elite car care coolfoam Red waffle finishing pad

I will be using it on my seat leon cupra, does this have 'hard' paint, so should i get a polish with a bit more bite? or would this be ok to use?

Im really looking forward to using the machine, just dont want to waste money of pads/polish if they are going to be no good

Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction of what pads polish combo to go for, as im a bit confused to which set to buy
Thanks

Ian


----------



## patton

Same here i'm lookin for a good pad to go with my B&Q one anyone got any ideas?


----------



## jayt

i bought a da sander out of b and q last year and made a few mods to it and it is basically the same as the porter cable, my only problem with it is it just isnt as good as the porter cable if you catch my drift, on paper its the very same but its just no as fine tuned as the g220 or the porter cable.

but for 20 notes it would be an excellent, most likely you can dismantle the head and fit a smaller one i know i can on mine.


----------



## mazda3_daveg

patton said:


> Same here i'm lookin for a good pad to go with my B&Q one anyone got any ideas?


What size is the plate on the B and Q one? These pads are great:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150298495391

They are 135mm and are a great polishing and finishing pad as they are quite soft. They are well worth it at that price too!


----------



## patton

not sure its not even got the sizes on the web page 
http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/n...refview=search&ts=1222634137518&isSearch=true


----------



## patton

according to another member the plates are 150mm and 125mm does that mean i cannot use them pads dave?


----------



## bluenose

:wall: This might sound like a dumb question, but what controls the rotation of the head on a DA machine like the Silverline (i.e the 1 - 3 spins per second people refer to). Is it just the action of the random orbit that causes it?? 
I'm just trying to get my head round what might be causing it to bog down and not spin under load. I had wondered whether it was either the Meg #83 that was a bit too 'sticky' or I need to run the polisher a slightly higher speed...

Ta :wave:


----------



## 3dr

bluenose said:


> :wall: This might sound like a dumb question, but what controls the rotation of the head on a DA machine like the Silverline (i.e the 1 - 3 spins per second people refer to). Is it just the action of the random orbit that causes it??
> I'm just trying to get my head round what might be causing it to bog down and not spin under load. I had wondered whether it was either the Meg #83 that was a bit too 'sticky' or I need to run the polisher a slightly higher speed...
> 
> Ta :wave:


i would run the sander at a higher speed to compensate till you get 2-3 spins per second


----------



## mazda3_daveg

patton said:


> according to another member the plates are 150mm and 125mm does that mean i cannot use them pads dave?


You could use it no problems on a 125mm plate but definitely not on the 150mm. The plate would stick over the edge and could catch on the paint :doublesho


----------



## VIPER

bluenose said:


> :wall: This might sound like a dumb question, but what controls the rotation of the head on a DA machine like the Silverline (i.e the 1 - 3 spins per second people refer to). Is it just the action of the random orbit that causes it??
> I'm just trying to get my head round what might be causing it to bog down and not spin under load. I had wondered whether it was either the Meg #83 that was a bit too 'sticky' or I need to run the polisher a slightly higher speed...
> 
> Ta :wave:


Are you making sure the whole surface of the pad in flatly in contact with the paint surface? I ask this because I've noticed that when nearing the edge of a panel or if the panel becomes more acutely curved away from the machine then the pad can come to a stop - moving it back onto a flatter area where the whole surface area of the pad is touching the paint then it spins up again. tbh. on speed 3 on the Silverline releasing pressure can sometimes even make it slow down and reapplying the correct polishing pressure can make it increase the revs per second. 
When I've had a little practice with putting video clips onto the web I'll try and film my machine in action to try and demonstrate this.


----------



## 3dr

does anyone else find that there's doesn't "spin" it more "vibrates" it's way round? i was expecting it be faster? (i'm using the 3m black waffle pads 125mm dia) i'm just letting the weight of the sander itself do the work and i'm using 3M ultrafina se, and although for 20 nicker it seems to be doing "something", i was expecting more "rotation"? (no sarcy comments about it being a DA not a Rotary )


----------



## GeeJay

Not a sarcy comment, but its a free spinning rotor, based on the random orbits of the backing plate


----------



## VIPER

If I (A) get time and (B) work out how to put vid clips on the web I'll try and sort something tomorrow to show you how quickly mine spins the pad under pressure as it seems some of us seem to be managing fine with it and others are having issues :thumb:


----------



## rob3rto

3dr said:


> does anyone else find that there's doesn't "spin" it more "vibrates" it's way round? i was expecting it be faster? (i'm using the 3m black waffle pads 125mm dia) i'm just letting the weight of the sander itself do the work and i'm using 3M ultrafina se, and although for 20 nicker it seems to be doing "something", i was expecting more "rotation"? (no sarcy comments about it being a DA not a Rotary )


Just checked mine before reading this and thought, damn, bought the wrong one!

Even with no load, it barely rotates on level one just oscillates.

Looking at a vid of a PC at work, was expecting similar spinnage.

Finally got the 135mm 3m waffle pads from eBay delivered today (only went and sent them to himself by using old self addressed jiffy :wall: ) so wanted to a) test the machine actully switched on and b) see if I could centre the pad easily.

Suppose it MUST work as Pit Viper et all have seen great results.

Now to get a finishing pad and some polish and get practising.


----------



## rob3rto

Think I found a great vid to explain it doesn't spin.

From about 2:50 it explains difference between what we are expecting ie Eccentric and what the Silverlines we bought actually do, Random Orbit.

Pretty informative, even shows a trick on seeing how big an orbit the machine does.

put a dot on the velcro pad, hold your hand to stop it turning and switch on. The bigger the circle the bigger the orbit.

Watch it and see what I am trying, badly, to explain.


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Nice find - was watching some DA vids on Youtube earlier but didn't see that one.

Pit Viper gave the recommendation of spacing the pad out a few mm in the direction of the offset to increase the throw of the machine. The video indicated a larger throw gives more cut, and a small throw gives a better finish as the scratch pattern is smaller?


----------



## 3dr

so basically mine is a "3" so while it will correct, it will just take longer? so is even safer/slower than a PC?


----------



## VIPER

rob3rto said:


> Just checked mine before reading this and thought, damn, bought the wrong one!
> 
> *Even with no load, it barely rotates on level one just oscillates.
> 
> Looking at a vid of a PC at work, was expecting similar spinnage.*
> 
> Finally got the 135mm 3m waffle pads from eBay delivered today (only went and sent them to himself by using old self addressed jiffy :wall: ) so wanted to a) test the machine actully switched on and b) see if I could centre the pad easily.
> 
> Suppose it MUST work as Pit Viper et all have seen great results.
> 
> Now to get a finishing pad and some polish and get practising.


That's odd - with no load and just 'free spinning' in the air, even on speed one it rotates at what looks like thousands of revs per minute, so yours should do the same?

I also checked out vids of PCs and G220s on the web to have something to compare to when I got the Silverline and I would even say mine spins faster than the ones I saw demo'd online, although it didn't initially with the 6" x 2" pads.

Both myself with my modified 5" SP pads and MikeB & GeeJay with the 5" Menzerna ones have all found that it's more than capable of maintaining at least 2 revs per second even under quite heavy pressure.


----------



## bluenose

I'm still in the 'non-spinning' group at present. I'm going to try it with a different pad and a slight offset when I get chance. Just to confirm though, I can hold the head and it doesn't rotate at all - just jiggles a lot.


----------



## Street

I followed this thread and joined the majority purchasing one of these sanders as I need to polish the scratches out of a headlight. I also got the Menzerra orange pad and a sample of three Menzerra polishes... but things haven't gone well 

Initially the pad wouldn't rotate under the weight of the sander alone. Using less polish was better but anything more than a pea size of polish at a time killed it.

It's not a rotatry polisher I kept telling myself..and pushed on. Whilst I am polishing plastic and am therefore being VERY picky.. the Menzerra orange pad with PO85RD just isn't fine enough.

As you can see from my post count I am a newbie but normally pretty handy with this sort of stuff. Could the pad be causing me the issues?? I'm finding I can get a better finish by hand.. (boom boom )

Edit: Oh.. and top of it all the velcro pad has now started to come away from the backing plate.


----------



## GeeJay

Street said:


> Whilst I am polishing plastic and am therefore being VERY picky.. the Menzerra orange pad with PO85RD just isn't fine enough.


What do you mean by 'fine' enough? As in the finish isn't clear enough?

If you were to buy a dedicated finishing pad (Menz don't have one in their range) such as a Megs one or a Lake country etc, coupled with the 85RD you'll get much finer results.


----------



## Street

Hi GeeJay. I have polished the light through various stages from intitail wet sanding.
The plastic is now crystal clear.. However under light there are still faint swirl marks.


----------



## VIPER

bluenose said:


> I'm still in the 'non-spinning' group at present. I'm going to try it with a different pad and a slight offset when I get chance. Just to confirm though, *I can hold the head and it doesn't rotate at all - just jiggles a lot.*


So does mine when I'm holding against my hand - on a flat smooth car panel though it's totally different. Any DA machine (other than the geared ones like the flex and that new switchable one) will come to a stop and just oscillate when holding it against your hand.



Street said:


> I followed this thread and joined the majority purchasing one of these sanders as I need to polish the scratches out of a headlight. I also got the Menzerra orange pad and a sample of three Menzerra polishes... but things haven't gone well
> 
> Initially the pad wouldn't rotate under the weight of the sander alone. Using less polish was better but *anything more than a pea size of polish at a time killed it.*
> 
> It's not a rotatry polisher I kept telling myself..and pushed on. Whilst I am polishing plastic and am therefore being VERY picky.. the Menzerra orange pad with PO85RD just isn't fine enough.
> 
> As you can see from my post count I am a newbie but normally pretty handy with this sort of stuff. Could the pad be causing me the issues?? I'm finding I can get a better finish by hand.. (boom boom )
> 
> Edit: Oh.. and top of it all the velcro pad has now started to come away from the backing plate.


Although I'm not disputing your findings, the amount of polish on the pad shouldn't affect the rotation speed - I normally use a 'X' of polish on the pad to do a 1-2 square foot area and it spins the same as it does when I only use a drop to just do a small localised area.

What do you mean about the velcro pad coming away? On the machine or the felt bit is splitting from the foam on the pad itself? If the latter, then a lot of pads do this on DA machines, it's just the result of the vibrations breaking down the cell structure of the foam - and the larger the cells and coarser the foam, the worse it is I've found.


----------



## Street

The velcro 'hooks' are coming away from the machine plate.

Out of interest I just covered the pad with a finishing cloth to see how the machine performed.. what a difference!! I can't actually stop the plate spinning now!

I'm convinced it's the pad.


----------



## VIPER

Street said:


> *The velcro 'hooks' are coming away from the machine plate.*
> 
> Out of interest I just covered the pad with a finishing cloth to see how the machine performed.. what a difference!! I can't actually stop the plate spinning now!
> 
> I'm convinced it's the pad.


Really? Sorry to hear that, mate. Mine's fine and I've had pads on and off it quite a lot, in fact it's tricky to get the pads off without ripping the felt from the foam - the 'hook' side of the velcro on the machine seems solid. We are talking about the same orange Silverline DA here aren't we?


----------



## GeeJay

On mine, the velcro hook side has come away ever so sightly. Im putting that down to my ignorance of the strength of it! A dab of glue has fixed that nicely. Also just taking more care and getting your finger between when removing the pad works a treat.


----------



## rob3rto

Still convinced mine oscillates rather than spins (


----------



## Street

One Silverline orbital sander, model 289446: ready for machine heaven..

This has happened as a result of a lot of use from a new user under many scenarios to try differing finishes.. so I'm not dissapointed

Those of a nervous disposition should look away now..


----------



## VIPER

GeeJay said:


> On mine, the velcro hook side has come away ever so sightly. Im putting that down to my ignorance of the strength of it! A dab of glue has fixed that nicely. *Also just taking more care and getting your finger between when removing the pad works a treat*.


Yeah, that's what I do as well to break the seal between the 2 halves as it puts less stress on the boding between the hook side and the plate and also the loop/felt side and the foam pad.


----------



## VIPER

Street said:


> One Silverline orbital sander, model 289446: ready for machine heaven..
> 
> This has happened as a result of a lot of use from a new user under many scenarios to try differing finishes.. so I'm not dissapointed
> 
> Those of a nervous disposition should look away now..


Blimey, mate - that's not good is it? Mine's not even slightly coming away around the edges (well I don't think it is, I've not noticed anything, but I'll be checking when I look at it next).


----------



## GeeJay

Contact adhesive'll sort that


----------



## VIPER

rob3rto said:


> Think I found a great vid to explain it doesn't spin.
> 
> From about 2:50 it explains difference between what we are expecting ie Eccentric and what the Silverlines we bought actually do, Random Orbit.
> 
> Pretty informative, even shows a trick on seeing how big an orbit the machine does.
> 
> put a dot on the velcro pad, hold your hand to stop it turning and switch on. The bigger the circle the bigger the orbit.
> 
> Watch it and see what I am trying, badly, to explain.
> 
> Youtube Link


At about 3:02 in there when he switches on the machine in just 'random orbit' mode it's hardly spinning, even in free air and with no load. My Silverline spins WAY faster than that and even faster than it does when he's got it in the other mode previously.


----------



## Street

Just an update guys.. Never one to give up following the death of my Silverline, I have pushed the boat out again and gone for a 'Titan' from Screwfix @ £19.99. (supplied in its own case as well! ooooo!)

Pretty much the same thing on paper.. but it's a dream to use. The plastic on the headlamp is not far of a mirror!

It acts and behaves the same as Pit Vipers Silverline seems to.. (very fast rotation speed in the air.. and no issues with rotation whilst polishing irrelevant of pad.)

I think the Sliverline has gone end of stock.. I wonder if this may explain some performance differences forum members seem to be reporting.

A very greatful newbie.. Thanks.

ps. pic of the new 'polisher/sander' !


----------



## VIPER

Street said:


> Just an update guys.. Never one to give up following the death of my Silverline, I have pushed the boat out again and gone for a 'Titan' from Screwfix @ £19.99. (supplied in its own case as well! ooooo!)
> 
> Pretty much the same thing on paper.. but it's a dream to use. The plastic on the headlamp is not far of a mirror!
> 
> It acts and behaves the same as Pit Vipers Silverline seems to.. (very fast rotation speed in the air.. and no issues with rotation whilst polishing irrelevant of pad.)
> 
> I think the Sliverline has gone end of stock.. I wonder if this may explain some performance differences forum members seem to be reporting.
> 
> A very greatful newbie.. Thanks.
> 
> ps. pic of the new 'polisher/sander' !


Looks a bargain that mate, and a case as well :thumb: What are the specs of this one? - OPM speeds, Variable speed?


----------



## Street

Not sure of forum rules but if I'm allowed here's a linky

Titan SF430B 430W Random Orbit Sander

430W 
Variable Speed 
Hook & Loop 
Dust Extraction Facility 
Soft-Grip Handle 
Trigger Switch

Sanding surface 125mm. 
Orbit dia. 2.5mm. 
Orbit speed 4,000-12,000opm. 
Weight 2.9kg.


----------



## rob3rto

Tried emailing Kingdom Tools and got a bounce saying email addy unknown.

sent to the link on their site

[email protected]

Anyone got a valid one?

Want to ask them what the situation is with the 289446 models. Are they supposed to spin or have they changed the spec.


----------



## bidderman1969

cant you ring them?


----------



## rob3rto

Street said:


> The velcro 'hooks' are coming away from the machine plate.
> 
> Out of interest I just covered the pad with a finishing cloth to see how the machine performed.. what a difference!! I can't actually stop the plate spinning now!
> 
> I'm convinced it's the pad.


How can it be the pad?

Did you try this off load?


----------



## Street

rob3rto said:


> How can it be the pad?
> 
> Did you try this off load?


Hi rob3rto, I couldn't understand why I was getting such a performance difference to Pit Viper and others (with and without load). Without load I would get maybe 3 or 4 revolutions a second. With load sometimes it went backward :lol:

The only variable seemed to be the pad type. I covered the face of the pad with a valeting cloth to reduce the friction between the two surfaces.. as a result its rotation was better.

Having now changed the sander for the Titan, it was obviously the sander that wasn't right


----------



## VIPER

rob3rto said:


> Tried emailing Kingdom Tools and got a bounce saying email addy unknown.
> 
> sent to the link on their site
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> Anyone got a valid one?
> 
> Want to ask them what the situation is with the 289446 models. Are they supposed to spin or have they changed the spec.


When you hold the machine (with no pad on) and switch on, what happens? If it rapidly spins up to what must be a few thousand RPM but will come to a stop if you press your hand on it then it's the same as mine, if it just oscillates and only turns very slowly then it's either faulty or somehow different in how it works.


----------



## VIPER

Street said:


> Hi rob3rto, I couldn't understand why I was getting such a performance difference to Pit Viper and others (with and without load). *Without load I would get maybe 3 or 4 revolutions a second.* With load sometimes it went backward :lol:
> 
> The only variable seemed to be the pad type. I covered the face of the pad with a valeting cloth to reduce the friction between the two surfaces.. as a result its rotation was better.
> 
> Having now changed the sander for the Titan, it was obviously the sander that wasn't right


Well that's totally different to how mine works. Yours sounds a bit like that one in the video clip at about 3.02 in where he switches it to random orbit mode and it barely turns.

Later on today I'm going to film mine on the camera with no load and then with a pad on under load on a surface. It will have to be on the side of the freezer in the garage as the Puma's outside and wet/dirty with the weather (and besides it'll be dark by the time I do it) and the XR2 doesn't need any areas polishing and as much as I love you all LOL! I'm not polishing paint away on my baby for the sake of it ) The freezer side is just like a car panel anyway and will suffice for the purpose of the demo of the silverline's spinning performance.

Hopefully I'll be able to get it on here tomorrow at some point.


----------



## Street

Here's what I think might be happening:

From the image.. 
The pad spins freely on axis (A) which looks like a ball bearing and is off centre to (B)... and the screw spins on axis (B). The motor only ever drives axis B.

The lubrication of this bearing (A) could impact on the level and force of rotation.
(As an extreme example.. if the bearing broke and became rigid.. the whole pad would spin very quickly on axis B

Additionally there are plastic tabs (C) that rub on the underside of the plate. These are angled to help the pad spin in one direction.
The greater the resistance the less the pad will rotate.

My box turned up battered and bruised. I put it down to a clumbsy posty. However perhaps it was a refurb and the bearing has been greased again or with a different lube?


----------



## VIPER

Interesting post, Street :thumb: First time I've seen inside one of these - cheers for that, mate.


----------



## rob3rto

Funny you should say the box was battered.

Mine too, even though it was well protected inside a bigger bubble padded box.

Machine looked new enough though.

Will ring them tomorrow.


----------



## GeeJay

Good work Street, so you're suggesting that perhaps those people with non-rotating pads could be down to the fact their bearing is too greased?

On my silverline, the screw next to circle B came loose, causing the backnig plate to wobble. I had to do this up tight, which also aided rotation 

G


----------



## bluenose

If you were going for new pads specifically for the Silverline and using Megs #83 & #80 would you go for the 6.5" Megs pads or the 5" Menz pads. Pit Viper suggested that 5" pads work better on the 5" backing plate. Is it more important to match pad size to machine or pad to polish?? Both pads seem to have really good write ups...


----------



## VIPER

bluenose said:


> If you were going for new pads specifically for the Silverline and using Megs #83 & #80 would you go for the 6.5" Megs pads or the 5" Menz pads. Pit Viper suggested that 5" pads work better on the 5" backing plate. Is it more important to match pad size to machine or pad to polish?? Both pads seem to have really good write ups...


I'd go for the Menz ones everytime. MikeB has used this exact combo and says it performed much like my 5" SP ones do - i.e able to maintain rev speed under pressure. With these 'non detailing' specific DA machines it's becoming clear that it's a case of matching pad size to machine.


----------



## Street

GeeJay said:


> people with non-rotating pads could be down to the fact their bearing is too greased?
> G


Quite possibly.

Additionally after 'playing' I noticed that my new sander spins freely when I spin it by hand. My Silverline however doesn't. Under the plate there are platic tabs that rub against the plate making it spin in one direction. If the resistance of the tabs is greater than that at the bearing, the pad will oscilate in the same place.

Couple of questions:
Can someone with a Silverline that rotates well confirm if you can spin the plate / pad freely with your hand. (When switched off)

Secondly as anyone noticed a lot of heat at the velcro plate after use (not the pad surface).. 
I think the pad oscilates in place and the bearing spins getting hot. That might explain why my velcro backing fell off as the heat melted the glue!


----------



## VIPER

Street said:


> Quite possibly.
> 
> Additionally after 'playing' I noticed that my new sander spins freely when I spin it by hand. My Silverline however doesn't. Under the plate there are platic tabs that rub against the plate making it spin in one direction. If the resistance of the tabs is greater than that at the bearing, the pad will oscilate in the same place.
> 
> Couple of questions:
> *Can someone with a Silverline that rotates well confirm if you can spin the plate / pad freely with your hand. (When switched off)*
> 
> Secondly as anyone noticed a lot of heat at the velcro plate after use (not the pad surface)..
> I think the pad oscilates in place and the bearing spins getting hot. That might explain why my velcro backing fell off as the heat melted the glue!


Yes, mine does that (as I'll try and demo when I film it later on tonight)

Also on the heat issue, I've used mine on several occasions where I've been at it all day and the machine has been in almost constant use with just breaks for wiping polish residue off a section and to re-apply polish to the pad. Can't say I noticed any heat build up and with extended use like that, I'd have expected the glue on mine to have melted if that's what was happening


----------



## Street

Cheers Pit Viper.. Thats definatley the issue. 

On full belt (max setting) I could stop the plate with the palm of my hand.
I have just WD40'd the tabs under the plate. It's still not great but it definatley harder to stop.

Out of interest I tried it with my new sander and I nearly took my skin off with the velcro pad..


----------



## bluenose

Pit Viper said:


> I'd go for the Menz ones everytime. MikeB has used this exact combo and says it performed much like my 5" SP ones do - i.e able to maintain rev speed under pressure. With these 'non detailing' specific DA machines it's becoming clear that it's a case of matching pad size to machine.


Perfect! Thanks for such a prompt answer :thumb:
Menz on order


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Hmm mine arived damaged too - box was in peices and the DA was actually slightly grazed in areas where it had been rubbing against delivery van floor etc. I too can only put a tiny amount of pressure before the pad stops. Does this mean it's not working correctly and can be returned?


----------



## VIPER

2 minute video filmed guys - just got to work out how to get the thing on here now :lol: Seems a bit 'big' at 74 Mb though?

Oh, and when it's up to speed (without a pad on) I can't stop it with my bare hands. holding it still before firing up you can stop it spinning though (which you'll see on the clip) but not once it's built up its speed.

Right, can't figure out how to get this bleedin' video clip onto this site, and to be quite honest I'm getting a bit pi$$ed with it now (as you can probably tell by my uncharacteristic tone). So if anyone's really bothered about seeing this Silverline machine working as it's suppose to then PM me with with some instructions about how to upload a video clip taken on a digital camera, other than that quite honestly I've other things I could be doing. apologies for the curt nature of this post.


----------



## BRYHER

Keep hanging in there,it's a credit to you that you are offering all this information and help.What goes around comes around!!!!!
Well done
Michael
Ps sorry no idea about the posting video ....I couldn't even add a thumbs up smiley to this.


----------



## mazda3_daveg

*Attention everyone with a Silverline RO. Problem Solved!*

Hi everyone,

I have the same problem as many other Silverline RO users - it spins slowly and is easily stopped with hand pressure. I think I've solved it though!

Just went out to the garage to have a go on a spare headlight. I was using Scratch X on a 3M polishing pad at max speed.

Pass 1+2 - Spinning at 1 rev per second with hardly any pressure. Little cut.

Pass 3+4 - Applied more pressure, stopped the pad spinning but seemed to give more cut.

Pass 5+6 - Applied more pressure and wait for it... the pad started spinning the other way round *really* fast. As I applied loads of pressure it started to bog down and I could get it into the 2 rev per second zone.

It seems the RO was spinning the wrong rotation with no load. Could be something to do with the bearings being over greased as someone mentioned before.

So everyone - pick up your RO, grab something to polish and press down hard. Hopefully everyone finds the same as me and can polish happy


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Here's some 50/50 pictures...

I now have a half polished light, polish splatter on my jumper and a big grin on my face! Pleased with myself for a first go! Big thanks to Pit Viper and everyone else who has contributed :thumb:


----------



## GeeJay

mazda3_daveg said:


> So everyone - pick up your RO, grab something to polish and press down hard. Hopefully everyone finds the same as me and can polish happy


Going to try this tonight! =D thanks!


----------



## GeeJay

Ps. I'm impressed with the headlight correction! Now get on to the car!


----------



## GeeJay

Street said:


> Cheers Pit Viper.. Thats definatley the issue.
> 
> On full belt (max setting) I could stop the plate with the palm of my hand.
> I have just WD40'd the tabs under the plate. It's still not great but it definatley harder to stop.
> 
> Out of interest I tried it with my new sander and I nearly took my skin off with the velcro pad..


Would you recommend removing the tabs then?

Going along with Dave G's post about pressing harder and it spinning the other way, could the tabs be the problem?


----------



## rob3rto

GeeJay said:


> Would you recommend removing the tabs then?
> 
> Going along with Dave G's post about pressing harder and it spinning the other way, could the tabs be the problem?


The tabs are for its "sanding" function only, to direct the dust towards the vent and into the bag.

Should be ok to remove in theory.


----------



## Street

GeeJay said:


> Would you recommend removing the tabs then?


I don't think so. It helped when free rotating in the air.. but the resistance at the pad face will have the same effect. The tabs are angled in the same direction and act as a one way mechanism. If your pushing to hard the tabs will be flattened and wont be as effective.

I tried the pushing hard thing.. and there is a difference but it wasn't constant rotation. I think the reason it changes behaviour is because you are increasing resistance on the bearing. Unfortunatley its resistance in the wrong direction and it will heat up pretty quick.. so watch your velcro pad!

There is no way I would attack my car using it.. if only because I'd be knackered by the end!

We need someone to get some degreaser on the bearing and see what happens.. I wonder if fairy liquid would do to proove the lube theory :speechles


----------



## Street

rob3rto said:


> The tabs are for its "sanding" function only, to direct the dust towards the vent and into the bag.
> 
> Should be ok to remove in theory.


Not quite.. under the bearing are metal fins for this function.. The plastic ones are to small and at the wrong vertical height.


----------



## GeeJay

Street said:


> We need someone to get some degreaser on the bearing and see what happens.. I wonder if fairy liquid would do to proove the lube theory :speechles


APC FTW!! :lol:


----------



## Street

GeeJay said:


> APC FTW!! :lol:


GeeJay.. your abbreviations are harder for me to decipher than this sander 

APC FTW:
All Purpose Cure For The World? or All people Can.. Free To Watch!! :lol:


----------



## Kaz

All Purpose Cleaner for the win! lol


----------



## GeeJay

Haha, sorry Street. 

Kaz got it in one


----------



## Street

and I can report.. it really is all purpose cleaner for the win!!

I took the pad off (4 screws underneath), then the bearing (single screw in the centre)
Used about 4 drops of Fairy Liquid (lemon scent) and worked in into the bearing.

Put it all back together.. and hey presto.. no skin on my other hand!!
It now rotates just like my new one.

Obviously I'm sure there is more professional degreaser out there than fairy liquid..
I obviously dont know what the long term effect would be.. if it starts rotating to quickly I'd hit it with WD40

HTH


----------



## VIPER

I've uploaded the vid clip to youtube (which took ages) but it now says - 'processing, please wait' so how long that is going to take I haven't a clue and I can't do any more now.


----------



## GeeJay

Nice work Street! Overgreased bearing FTL. :lol:

I'll get some all purpose cleaner on mine tonight! 

Is there a way to _slightly_ grease the bearing, as I wouldn't fancy running it until it sticks/dries out

G


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> I've uploaded the vid clip to youtube (which took ages) but it now says - 'processing, please wait' so how long that is going to take I haven't a clue and I can't do any more now.


Usually only takes about 10 minutes for that. I think it's screened for bad content too 

I look forward to seeing it!


----------



## Street

You need to use a different lube and work it in.. 

To start perhaps go straight for motor grease or something similar..


----------



## VIPER

It's not a full before & afters demo - it's just a demo of how the machine should be spinning the plate with no load and then with the pad on the car showing 2-3 revs per second under pressure. The lighting's not great as it was going dark, but it does show how it's supposed to work. Mind you it's the first time I've ever uploaded anything to youtube, so it probably won't work anyway 

I have to say I'm disappointed that some of you are having to mess about taking yours to bits


----------



## bluenose

At the end of all this, I still think a load of people will end up with a value for money machine that produces great correction results when used with the right pad and polish. I'm chuffed to bits with the result even though I still need to experiment to sort out the pad rotation a bit more. I ain't getting into taking the baby apart!
I'd have not made the move to machine polishing without Pit Viper showing me the way on this one!:buffer:
:thumb:


----------



## Street

Pit Viper said:


> I have to say I'm disappointed that some of you are having to mess about taking yours to bits


I'm sure these have been refurbed or had a different grease applied.

At the end of the day people don't have to take these apart. Return it under the distance selling rules if you haven't used it or simply because it's not fit for purpose.

Forgot to mention yesterday.. the Titan I got from Screwfix has a 1 year manufacturer guarantee.


----------



## GeeJay

bluenose said:


> At the end of all this, I still think a load of people will end up with a value for money machine that produces great correction results when used with the right pad and polish. I'm chuffed to bits with the result even though I still need to experiment to sort out the pad rotation a bit more. I ain't getting into taking the baby apart!
> I'd have not made the move to machine polishing without Pit Viper showing me the way on this one!:buffer:
> :thumb:


Exactly my opinion too. He's got a lot of people into basic correction for a relatively cheap price.

I think that the issue is they come from the factory slightly over greased. Mike B and I bought ours at the same time. He's done an entire car more than mine, and this could explain why his rotated better than mine when under no load. Even with lack of rotation, don't forget that the small orbits will still be serving correctional functions 

G


----------



## sasko

*The pad dilema continues!!*

So i have the machine and desperate to get out and use it but cannot decide on pads - latest thought is the Lake Country CCS pads although they are 6.5" will this cause a problem?? I am hesitant to get the Menz ones as the look a lot more aggressive in cutting terms for me just starting out but equally I do not have much money to spend so only want to buy once really!!

Any thoughts?? I plan to be using it (at the moment) for SRP and Dodo L/P - not on the same car though!!!

Cheers
Sam


----------



## bluenose

I tried the White Lake country both in 6.5" and cut down to 5" inch form. The level of correction with Megs #83 was great and I was really pleased with the results. However I was getting a lack of rotation and wanted to try a different pad. The recommendation from PV was to run a 5" pad with the Silverline hence I have the Menz pad on order!


----------



## Kaz

Another vote for the Menz pads, they're great.

Any suggestions on a finishing pad I can cut down?


----------



## VIPER

Well the vid upload has clearly gone wrong as it's still showing as 'processing' so I give up on it and I can't devote anymore time to it today I'm afraid, I've got to get some work done. Apologies, I did try, but as usual things that are supposed to be easy aren't and I have no patience with stuff like this whatsoever


----------



## theshrew

Mine didnt spin to much when i tried it last week. I suppose the greese issue will improve with use. Perhaps use it as a sander first applying lots of pressure may help get rid of the greese. 

At lease we no if we clean it out it works fine. Even if you have to do this its still a great buy for the price all thanks to the Viper man loads more people can get into machine polishing :thumb::buffer::thumb:


----------



## theshrew

Steet 

Have you got any pics of how you took the machine apart to get to the bearing ?


----------



## Street

Unscrew the 4 screws under the plate









Remove the plate









Unscrew the centre screw (You can see I am using a secong screw driver to stop the axil spinning by pushing against a fin under the bearing)









The bearing lifts out









Reverse the instructions to put back together. Making sure the centre screw is tight.


----------



## david g

I think we have some Lake Country 5 inch pads in stock for anyone interested :thumb:


----------



## GeeJay

david g said:


> I think we have some Lake Country 5 inch pads in stock for anyone interested :thumb:


I can't see them on your site??
Also, how much would postage be?


----------



## rob3rto

david g said:


> I think we have some Lake Country 5 inch pads in stock for anyone interested :thumb:


Can't see them on your site.

I need polishing and finishing in 5"


----------



## GeeJay

Just seen an 'Edge' 3 pack of different 5" pads on C-W'n'W. They might be of some use to people?


----------



## VIPER

Not getting anywhere with youtube, so uploaded it to one of my photobucket accounts (don't know whether it will work or not on here?)

Anyway, as I said, the lighting's poor as it was going dark (decided to do on the back corner of the Puma rather than the side of the freezer as I'd originally said). For any polishing newbies viewing this, please note that polishes need to be worked a lot longer than I'm doing here, but for the purposes of just demonstrating the pad spinning under load, there was no need to go through the whole process and make the video unnecessarily long.

As you can see if I hold my hand on the backing plate I can hold it still and prevent it from spinning up, but once it's up to speed I can't stop it without taking the skin off my hand :lol: 
The machine is on the lowest speed #1 when there's no pad attached.

After the pad is attached it's still on speed #1 whilst I quickly spread the polish about and then I turn it up to speed #3 for working it in (again this is only to demo the pad speed, I would have worked the polish a lot longer than this if I were doing it properly).

So, to sum up, if anyone's Silverline isn't performing like this, then it might need some attention as has been very well described by other members earlier on in the thread


----------



## david g

rob3rto said:


> Can't see them on your site.
> 
> I need polishing and finishing in 5"


I have some left .I will post up what we have later this evening,anyone interested then drop us a pm

Thanks


----------



## bluenose

:thumb: Thanks for persisting with the vid. My rotation is not as consistant as that but now I've seen it, the more I'm convinced it has to do with pad and polish choice.
My Megs#80 turned up today so I'm going to try that on the Menz pad I have on order. Reading elsewhere, Megs#83 can be a little sticky at times and the Lake Country pads can also suck up a lot of polish not helping with the bog down problem. 

I also think that you have a better balance of pressure. I.e allowing the machine to do the work rather than trying to force it through the panel! 

You can't expect to just pick it up and get it right first time. Perhaps it's just down to practice and getting the right 'feel'


----------



## VIPER

You can see that even with the correct amount of pressure on the panel I can maintain approx 2-3 revs per second (you should be able to see the black marker pen line flashing by on the side of the pad). This was a finishing pad with SSR2 btw. but it performs exactly the same on my 5" polishing pad (just used the red one here as A. it's easier to wash out and B. I didn't want to be polishing any more clear coat off the car than necessary).


----------



## GeeJay

Thanks for posting that!! Mine definitely doesn't spin as freely as that, even with light pressure on the DA. Either way I;m still getting great correction. It;s not all down to the spin, but the orbits mainly, so people may be getting too caught up in the rotation part. Obviously the rotation helps with a more even polish coating


----------



## VIPER

GeeJay said:


> Thanks for posting that!! Mine definitely doesn't spin as freely as that, even with light pressure on the DA. Either way I;m still getting great correction. It;s not all down to the spin, but the orbits mainly, so people may be getting too caught up in the rotation part. Obviously the rotation helps with a more even polish coating


That is true, the rotation just helps to compensate a little for the machine's relatively small offset to the action and aids in the polish breakdown.


----------



## VIPER

sasko said:


> So i have the machine and desperate to get out and use it but cannot decide on pads - latest thought is the Lake Country CCS pads although they are 6.5" will this cause a problem?? I am hesitant to get the Menz ones as the look a lot more aggressive in cutting terms for me just starting out but equally I do not have much money to spend so only want to buy once really!!
> 
> Any thoughts?? I plan to be using it (at the moment) for SRP and Dodo L/P - not on the same car though!!!
> 
> Cheers
> Sam


Sam, the 6.5" might be tad too big as we've all sort of come to the conclusion that they need to be 5-5.5" otherwise problems arise with pad rotation speed. The Menz polishing pad (not the harsher compounding one) will be your best bet for the polishing duties and also be aware that pads do soften up quite a bit after a coupe of uses, so what might seem like a really hard and harsh pad straight out of the packet, will soften after a few goes and washing sessions. If you're at all unsure, have a practice on something and give it a good wash - you'll probably find it feels a bit softer then. As for finishing pads, I think David G has mentioned some 5" pads earlier on in this thread.


----------



## sasko

Pit Viper said:


> Sam, the 6.5" might be tad too big as we've all sort of come to the conclusion that they need to be 5-5.5" otherwise problems arise with pad rotation speed. The Menz polishing pad (not the harsher compounding one) will be your best bet for the polishing duties and also be aware that pads do soften up quite a bit after a coupe of uses, so what might seem like a really hard and harsh pad straight out of the packet, will soften after a few goes and washing sessions. If you're at all unsure, have a practice on something and give it a good wash - you'll probably find it feels a bit softer then. As for finishing pads, I think David G has mentioned some 5" pads earlier on in this thread.


Thanks for that Pit Viper. Think I will get the menz polishing pad for a start and see how I get on. Have got an old audi a4 to practice on so will work on that first before going near anything else. Cheers for all the advice through this thread has been a great help to make that big step into the machine polishing world!!

Cheers
Sam


----------



## david g

We have a couple of lake country 5 inch finish ing and cutting pads
I also have 5 inch waffle pads in cutting and finishing that are very similar to the Lake Conutry pads


----------



## mike b

GeeJay said:


> Thanks It;s not all down to the spin, but the orbits mainly, so people may be getting too caught up in the rotation part. Obviously the rotation helps with a more even polish coating





Pit Viper said:


> That is true, the rotation just helps to compensate a little for the machine's relatively small offset to the action and aids in the polish breakdown.


I dont feel this is quite true...the offset works with the spin to give the 'round and round' but offsetting it as it were.

See the diagram below:









Without the spin you just going to get offset movement?

A hard one to explain on a forum, but im sure the image will help to show what i mean!


----------



## VIPER

What I said there ^^ in my quote is true. The offset of these machines compared to a PC or a G220 is quite small and on it's own (without pad rotation) wouldn't really do anything as there isn't sufficient movement to work the polishes, so what I meant was that the rotation of 2-3 revs per second which is shown in that clip, helps to exaggerate the movement of the pad over the paint surface. A PC/G220 only really needs to spin at 1 rev per second (as if often recommended on guides to using those machines) as the greater oscillation offset doesn't need as much 'help' from the revolutions to achieve similar levels of pad movement.

So as I see it, the pattern of these 'sander' DA machines is more like this:- (with a smaller elliptical pattern, but higher speeds)


----------



## Street

A 'Random Orbital Sander' that doesn't rotate is a standard finishing sander.

Googling the benefits of the ROS over a finishing sander shows that it is more agressive and safer as "no single abrasive particle follows the same path twice, leaving a swirl-free finish"

Therefore if it doesn't rotate (or rotates slowly) it will still work.. just slower. The comparison of finish between my Silverline that hardly rotated and my new one is astounding.. and I could have saved myself 10 hours trying to convince myself I was doing something wrong.


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Pit Viper that vid is perfect. :thumb: Thanks so much, it was worth the effort and stress! Now mine is spinning correctly it spins in the same direction as yours. Before it was just turning slowly the wrong way.

I would highly recommened people having difficulties watch Pit Viper's video and see if theirs are spinning clockwise like his. If it isn't - you have the same problem I did.


----------



## 3dr

i think i might not be pressing hard enough either, looking at the compression of that red pad of Pit Viper's i think a little bit more ooomph is required, i'm barely compressing the "waffles" on my black 3M pad !!!!


----------



## mazda3_daveg

3dr said:


> i think i might not be pressing hard enough either, looking at the compression of that red pad of Pit Viper's i think a little bit more ooomph is required, i'm barely compressing the "waffles" on my black 3M pad !!!!


That's what I did to start with. However give it some umph and it comes to life! I'm not saying I'm right as I'm a RO newbe but it works well for me!


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

Just to let people know i finally bought one today.

After starting this thread some time ago and just not haveing the time on my hands for using one, i didnt rush out and get one. Noticed that people were haveing some issues with the silverline, the MAC one B&Q do was to big and not suitable for the smaller pads IMO.

Went and looked at A Titan one at Screfix today, but i thought it felt cheaply made and the variable speed was not numbered like the others which i think is quite handy to have.

Anyway i settled on a Performoance tools one in the end as i personally thought it felt the most solid one from the bunch. Quite happy with it and ill put some pics up when i can.


----------



## GeeJay

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:


----------



## VIPER

3dr said:


> i think i might not be pressing hard enough either, looking at the compression of that red pad of Pit Viper's i think a little bit more ooomph is required, i'm barely compressing the "waffles" on my black 3M pad !!!!





mazda3_daveg said:


> That's what I did to start with. However give it some umph and it comes to life! I'm not saying I'm right as I'm a RO newbe but it works well for me!


Just note though that the red pad I have on there is a finishing pad and therefore is quite soft - my other blue polishing pad doesn't compress as much as that one with the same pressure, but it still spins at the same speed.

But like you both say, you do need a fair bit of pressure for it to spin - just barely holding against the surface mine hardly spins, it needs the resistance of the paintwork surface to help it 'drive' in a way. Doesn't make much sense logically, but it that's how it works.

Oh and clean-my-sxi, you've missed the boat, matey - we've all moved onto rotaries now!! LOL! Just kidding, bud - thought you'd never get round to it though  Not familiar with the one you've got?


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Pit Viper said:


> Oh and clean-my-sxi, you've missed the boat, matey - we've all moved onto rotaries now!!


:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

Ill get a pic up mate, only problem is now ive got one, i dont know when im gonna have time to actually use it.


----------



## Gareth2665

This is truly an excellent post. As a result, i am chomping at the bit to get some kit together and get started. 

Problem is... there are 45 pages full of great advice and products. Therefore i am am getting confused as to what pads and polish to get.

I have a Mitsubishi shogun in met black with slight swirling / scratches. Also an Almera that is red and requires more attention to due to lots of swirling.

Could someone help me out with what pads and polishes please. I already have SRP, Chem guys wet mirror finish and Colonite wax.

Thanx all

Gareth2665


----------



## GeeJay

I'm one happy DW'er! 

My gf's sister let me attack her pink (matte!) punto that was once red. I used some 3m samples i got hold of and my old blue SP pad @ 5". It started off pretty unsuccessfully, and motivation was low, until i remembered the hint from here - de-grease the bearing.

So i whipped off the backing plate and then took the bearing out. Sprayed a little drgreaser and wiped it round, removing the OODLES of excess grease in the bearing. I put jsut 2 drops of 3 in 1 oil in the bearing to keep it slightly lubed, screwed it back together and it works like a dream!! Spins round a lot better and under pressure and the cut was very impressive! I'll post some pictures tomorrow when i get my camera cable!

Cheers for the tips guys


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Gareth2665 said:


> Could someone help me out with what pads and polishes please. I already have SRP, Chem guys wet mirror finish and Colonite wax.


Depends on how much money you want to spend. I would start with a few of these pads:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150301673233

They are the perfect size and a great all round pad. You can use them for light polishing and finishing.

I would then recommend Menzerna 106 Final Finish, and Menzerna Intensive Polish PO85RD 3.02. These two will cover nearly all situations and the 106 finishes up very nicely. If you don't want to spend £40 on two bottles of polish, get the Menzerna starter kit:

http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=488

Hope that helps,
Dave


----------



## Gareth2665

Thanks Dave.


----------



## jazzmanfq

after spending literally hours reading this thread i too have decided on purchasing the silverline via amazon and am currently looking at the other options on pads/polishes
currently have srp and some megs 3 step but also have some supernatural left.. may invest in the mazerna starter kit also. many thanks everyone for the contributions so far:thumb: m.j


----------



## VIPER

GeeJay said:


> I'm one happy DW'er!
> 
> My gf's sister let me attack her pink (matte!) punto that was once red. I used some 3m samples i got hold of and my old blue SP pad @ 5". It started off pretty unsuccessfully, and motivation was low, until i remembered the hint from here - de-grease the bearing.
> 
> So i whipped off the backing plate and then took the bearing out. Sprayed a little drgreaser and wiped it round, removing the OODLES of excess grease in the bearing. I put jsut 2 drops of 3 in 1 oil in the bearing to keep it slightly lubed, screwed it back together and it works like a dream!! Spins round a lot better and under pressure and the cut was very impressive! I'll post some pictures tomorrow when i get my camera cable!
> 
> Cheers for the tips guys


Glad to hear you're getting a performance out of the machine now, mate :thumb: 
So, it seems that there's quite a bit of difference in how much grease is being applied by the factory around the bearing on these and they obviously vary a lot just across the ones that we all have. I must just have been lucky in that mine was supplied without too much on. I have noticed of late though that mine is _gaining_ power and seems to be spinning the pad at even faster speeds under load than it used to.

I modified mine over the weekend as well (and therefore invalidated my 3 year warranty  - not too bothered though on such an inexpensive machine). I extended the power lead by about six foot as when doing a roof with the cord over your shoulder, it's not long enough for the plug to reach the ground and so whatever extension you have it plugged into is hanging in mid air, which was annoying the hell out of me.


----------



## mike b

Pit Viper said:


> Glad to hear you're getting a performance out of the machine now, mate :thumb:
> So, it seems that there's quite a bit of difference in how much grease is being applied by the factory around the bearing on these and they obviously vary a lot just across the ones that we all have. I must just have been lucky in that mine was supplied without too much on. I have noticed of late though that mine is _gaining_ power and seems to be spinning the pad at even faster speeds under load than it used to.
> 
> I modified mine over the weekend as well (and therefore invalidated my 3 year warranty  - not too bothered though on such an inexpensive machine). I extended the power lead by about six foot as when doing a roof with the cord over your shoulder, it's not long enough for the plug to reach the ground and so whatever extension you have it plugged into is hanging in mid air, which was annoying the hell out of me.


I too thought whether this would happen as the grease gets worked in/out of the bearing in use this morning when chatting to Geejay! A great machine, getting better!

And a great modification which i also found to be annoying when doing a roof (luckily Geejays mr2 had a softtop!) Just a case of buying some cable off the reel from your local DIY store i take it? Did you 'cut and shut' the existing wire, or wire it right back into the body of the machine?


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> I have noticed of late though that mine is _gaining_ power and seems to be spinning the pad at even faster speeds under load than it used to.


Probably where the grease in the bearing is coming out (the internals of mine were SPLATTERED! I also found that most of the soft plastic fins were flattened, and some had came off, so I cut the rest of them off which I think stopped it bogging down



Pit Viper said:


> I modified mine over the weekend as well I extended the power lead by about six foot.


DEFINITELY my next modification too!


----------



## VIPER

I just extended it at the plug end but soldered the connections. Normally when doing something like this I'd have done it by opening the machine and putting a complete new length of wire in, but as it's working very well at the moment (and I have my neighbour's large van to machine polish very soon), I didn't want to disturb anything and spoil the performance.


----------



## GeeJay

Here's what I achieved with:
Blue SP cutting pad @ 5" with 3m Fast cut plus
3m Finesse it @ 5" with 3m UltraFina

















Nearside done, Offside not:








All done:

































I've still got some work to do on it as the bad weather stopped play, but I'm SUPER happy with the polisher and pads, and the owner certainly is!

Contrary to my previous posts stating the poor results of the Blue SP pad, even when cut down, when the bearing is de-greased, the pad (as you can see) achieves excellent results!

G


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> I just extended it at the plug end but soldered the connections. Normally when doing something like this I'd have done it by opening the machine and putting a complete new length of wire in, but as it's working very well at the moment (and I have my neighbour's large van to machine polish very soon), I didn't want to disturb anything and spoil the performance.


Just to add, it might be worth other people getting a cable coupler/joiner for about £1 from b&q. iirc, they're soft coated too


----------



## VIPER

Blimey!! look at the size of your right hand - you thought about taking up boxing? :lol: :lol:

Only messing, mate - that's certainly brought some life back into the paint, nice work :thumb: How did you 'modify' your SP 'Blue' then, just out of interest?  When mine finally gives up the ghost, I'll replace it with a Menz 135mm polishing pad. My SP 'Red' will last way longer I think as the foam's not seperating from the felt at all yet.


----------



## davida3544

Hi Guys

Just found this thread whilst looking to buy a g220.

Is this the siverline you have all been discussing? I found it at toolstation. Its blue instead of the orange but I have read that some say the ones you reccommend are discontinued?

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/PowerTools/SilverlinePowerTools/d40/sd2670

SL843 Random Orbit Sander
Power input 180w
No load speed 10000rpm
Disc size 125mm
Weight 1.75kg.
Dust extractor facility with dust bag. Hook & Loop type base for quick easy disc change. Adjustable handle.
Catalogue p38
Code Price Inc VAT Qty 
95808 SL843 Random Orbit Sander 240v £21.00


----------



## mike b

GeeJay said:


>


Pah ha ha, look at the shape of your head and special hand mate! Aliennnn...

Good work chap!


----------



## GeeJay

davida3544 said:


> Is this the siverline you have all been discussing?
> http://www.toolstation.com/shop/PowerTools/SilverlinePowerTools/d40/sd2670


NOOOOOOOO!!!

Don't buy that one at all! It's not got adjustable speeds by the looks, and i can imagine @ only 120w, it's not going to have much/any grunt for correction. I think amazon are still stocking the orange ones


----------



## VIPER

davida3544 said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> Just found this thread whilst looking to buy a g220.
> 
> Is this the siverline you have all been discussing? I found it at toolstation. Its blue instead of the orange but I have read that some say the ones you reccommend are discontinued?
> 
> http://www.toolstation.com/shop/PowerTools/SilverlinePowerTools/d40/sd2670
> 
> SL843 Random Orbit Sander
> Power input 180w
> No load speed 10000rpm
> Disc size 125mm
> Weight 1.75kg.
> Dust extractor facility with dust bag. Hook & Loop type base for quick easy disc change. Adjustable handle.
> Catalogue p38
> Code Price Inc VAT Qty
> 95808 SL843 Random Orbit Sander 240v £21.00


No, mate - that's the one from the 'DIY' range with no variable speed and less power. The one we have is orange from the 'Hi Spec' range and it's 450w with variable speed.

I think there are still a few suppliers with them though :thumb:


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> Blimey!! look at the size of your right hand - you thought about taking up boxing? :lol: :lol:
> 
> Only messing, mate - that's certainly brought some life back into the paint, nice work :thumb: How did you 'modify' your SP 'Blue' then, just out of interest?  When mine finally gives up the ghost, I'll replace it with a Menz 135mm polishing pad. My SP 'Red' will last way longer I think as the foam's not seperating from the felt at all yet.


:lol::lol: Haha...damn the distortion in the bodywork making me look disproportionate. Time to remove that pic? lol

I used the same method as you - a snappable retractable knife all the way through - not the best of cuts, but it still works 

I think the problem lies where the Velcro backing isn't as big as the backing plate/pad, which causes separation.

I boguht some 3m pads that are 5" already, and the velcro backing goes all the way to the edge of the pad, and in a day's use, it hasn't come away at all, and i don't think it will to be honest! I'm starting to think that if you put a bit of masking tape (or maybe electrical tape) overlapping the edge of the velcro, and going slightly over the edge of the pad, the backing plate won't cut into the pad. I'm also considering removing the rubber sleeve, as that's only there for sanding really


----------



## davida3544

GeeJay said:


> NOOOOOOOO!!!
> 
> Don't buy that one at all! It's not got adjustable speeds by the looks, and i can imagine @ only 120w, it's not going to have much/any grunt for correction. I think amazon are still stocking the orange ones


Thanks for that. Just ordered the last one off amazon:thumb:

Next question as a complete novice to m/c polishing. Now that I've saved a fortune not buying the g220, I would like to buy a good polish/ pad combination. What do you guys suggest is best for the money? I have a silver E46 BMW with minor swirl marks all over.

Again, thanks a lot, always makes me feel good to save a few quid


----------



## GeeJay

davida3544 said:


> I would like to buy a good polish/ pad combination. What do you guys suggest is best for the money? I have a silver E46 BMW with minor swirl marks all over.


I've personally bought the Menz sample kit form Elite Car Care, and had great results with swirls. Some recommended pads are the Menzerna polishing pads, and I've also used the 3m pads that are also 5" from ebay with great results!


----------



## VIPER

The 135mm Menzerna polishing pad and something like Megs #83 or Poorboys SSR2.5 (as opposed to SSR2 as BMW paint is quite hard and #2 might not have enough 'kick'), or Menzerna PO85RD 3.02 Intensive Polish might be the best choice for your car.
Then finish off with their Final Finish PO85RD on any finishing pad really, but try to pick a smaller diameter one - 5 or 5.25 inch.


----------



## davida3544

Pit Viper said:


> The 135mm Menzerna polishing pad and something like Megs #83 or Poorboys SSR2.5 (as opposed to SSR2 as BMW paint is quite hard and #2 might not have enough 'kick'), or Menzerna PO85RD 3.02 Intensive Polish might be the best choice for your car.
> Then finish off with their Final Finish PO85RD on any finishing pad really, but try to pick a smaller diameter one - 5 or 5.25 inch.


Cheers :thumb:


----------



## bluenose

My orange menz pad turned up and whoever said it was rock hard at first was dead right! Feels like I could take the skin off my hand with it. It's completely different to my white lake country pad so I'm going to give it a couple of washes first to try and soften it up before giving it a go with some #80!
....I've also renamed my Silverline to The Pit Viper edition polisher.


----------



## GeeJay

bluenose said:


> I've also renamed my Silverline to The Pit Viper edition polisher.


Sounds like it gives more *bite*

:tumbleweed: Gets coat...


----------



## VIPER

bluenose said:


> My orange menz pad turned up and whoever said it was rock hard at first was dead right! Feels like I could take the skin off my hand with it. It's completely different to my white lake country pad so I'm going to give it a couple of washes first to try and soften it up before giving it a go with some #80!
> ....I've also renamed my Silverline to The Pit Viper edition polisher.


LOL! Cheers, mate :thumb:

Thinking back my Serious Performance 'Blue' polishing pad was really hard and 'rough' feeling when I first took it out of the packet, and I recall thinking to myself 'There's no way I'm using *that* on my car!' but now, after a few use / wash cycles it's _way_ softer than it was, so they do change with use and washing.


----------



## bluenose

'There's no way I'm using *that *on my car!'
- Exactly what I thought!
Useful to hear it's not just the Menz pad....


----------



## Zetec-SS

right after spending approx 1hour reading all 47 pages of this thread ..i've decided i am going to take the plunge and get this Silverline DA...i'm going on Amazon to buy it now...  thanks to all that have contributed to this thread!!

edit...just bought the last one in stock


----------



## VIPER

Good luck - hope you get one :thumb:

You can just imagine the conversation at Silverline "WTF is going on here? we've had this sander on our products list for ages, it ain't selling so we dicontinue it then all of a sudden the sales rocket in the UK?? Doesn't make any sense " :lol: :lol:

Kingdom Tools still have it listed on their site - don't necessarily know if that means they actually have them in stock though?


----------



## theshrew

Ive still not ordered any polish to use with mine yet. 

With reguards the Menz sample 250ml bottles is that enough polish to do a car ? And whats the best one for Subaru and Golf paint ?


----------



## mazda3_daveg

theshrew said:


> With reguards the Menz sample 250ml bottles is that enough polish to do a car ? And whats the best one for Subaru and Golf paint ?


It must be otherwise you would only do 4 cars with a £25 bottle of Menz polish? Unless polishes work out a lot more expensive than I was thinking?

Transtools still have some if anyone is looking:

http://www.transtools.co.uk/store/p...9670-hi-spec-125mm-random-orbital-sander.html


----------



## VIPER

Oh aye - 250ml is easily ample for doing quite a few cars.


----------



## _daveR

Awesome, hadn't checked in on this thread for a while but the idea on degreasing the bearing seems worth trying on mine. If it dies then it was only £20!


----------



## VIPER

_daveR said:


> Awesome, hadn't checked in on this thread for a while but the idea on degreasing the bearing seems worth trying on mine. If it dies then it was only £20!


Yeah, it seems this is *the* main problem that some were having with the pad rotation issue, although I've been lucky and mine's been fine without me having to tinker with it (actually I got 'special' one that was painstakingly hand crafted by Silverline's top engineers as a 'thankyou' for all the business I've generated for them  :lol.


----------



## robrobc

Pit Viper said:


> Yeah, it seems this is *the* main problem that some were having with the pad rotation issue, although I've been lucky and mine's been fine without me having to tinker with it (actually I got 'special' one that was painstakingly hand crafted by Silverline's top engineers as a 'thankyou' for all the business I've generated for them  :lol.


Thats Handy Pit Viper.........what are you going to recommend next in your product promotions as I would like to be 1st in line


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Haha, we need a "Pit's Product Promotions" thread!


----------



## superstat

SPECIAL EDITION


----------



## VIPER

superstat said:


> SPECIAL EDITION


Brilliant!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## theshrew

:thumb::thumb::buffer::thumb::thumb:


----------



## VIPER

I'm actually in discussion with Silverline at present re: a Viper edition machine in the style of superstat's post, but I want the body to have the same finish I have on my guitar :lol: :lol: :- (no strings on it as I'm about to start a major strip down and cleaning session on it, before anyone asks )


----------



## GeeJay

One word - LUSH


----------



## VIPER

If Paul Dalton can have his name on Swissvax Crystal Rock, I'm having a 'Viper Edition' Silverline :lol: :lol:

Anyway, getting a bit silly now, so bavk on topic...


----------



## Mattywatsit

Hey Pit Viper, Nice guitar first of all and more on topic i have a question about the DA being dicussed. Right here goes, we have recently bought a 2006 Kia Sorento and with it being an ex fleet car the paint is a state to be honest, its got many swirls. I am a newbie when it coems to machine polishing and i am currently looking for the right machine/pads & polish to buy to remove the swirls after practacing on a scrap panel of course. So my main question is will this machien have enough 'grunt' to remove the swirls in the picture below?










Thanks again, & do exuse the dirt it hasnt been washed for about a week as the weather has been cr4p here!!

Regards,
Matthew :newbie:


----------



## GeeJay

Hi Matthew, welcome to the forums.

Short answer is yes! If you ahve a brief flick through the pages, there are a good few pictures of the correction achieved by this 

The most popular polish and pad combo's are the Menzerna Sample pack from Elite Car Care, and the 5" menzerna pads that are 5". They achieve very good cut and correction results with this machine 

Also, it's probably advised to de-grease the bearing if you find yours doesn't spin very well under pressure (details here)

G


----------



## VIPER

Mattywatsit said:


> Hey Pit Viper, Nice guitar first of all and more on topic i have a question about the DA being dicussed. Right here goes, we have recently bought a 2006 Kia Sorento and with it being an ex fleet car the paint is a state to be honest, its got many swirls. I am a newbie when it coems to machine polishing and i am currently looking for the right machine/pads & polish to buy to remove the swirls after practacing on a scrap panel of course. So my main question is will this machien have enough 'grunt' to remove the swirls in the picture below?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again, & do exuse the dirt it hasnt been washed for about a week as the weather has been cr4p here!!
> 
> Regards,
> Matthew :newbie:


Hi Matthew - wecome to the site first of all :wave: and cheers for the guitar comment :thumb:

Yes I'd say it could tackle those. As they look quite bad (although by no means _that_ bad ) I think something like the Menzerna PO85RD 3.02 Intensive polish on the accompanying Menzerna Polishing pad would be enough to shift those followed by the Menz finishing polish - either the PO85RD or the 106 (the latter being the slightly more abrasive of the 2) on a finishing pad. Unfortunately Menzerna don't do a finishing pad, but 3M do in the 135mm size (try not to go any larger than this on these machines for the reasons discussed previously, although having said that, I think we've kind of established that it was a manufacturer over greasing problem that was causing the lack of 'grunt'). If you go for the Menzerna polishing pad, don't be alarmed if it feels hard and coarse when you take it out of the packet - that's how they are but after a wash or two they do soften up like most pads will.
Best of luck with it :thumb:


----------



## Mattywatsit

Thanks for the help guys so next question, wheres cheapest to buy the DA (theres currently one on ebay) and wheres the cheapest or best to buy the said polishes & pads. Thanks again.

Regards,
Matthew 

:car:


----------



## GeeJay

Polishes

Menz Pads

Search 3m pads on ebay and you'll find some black waffles @ £4.25 to use as finishing with the 85RD polish 

G


----------



## Mattywatsit

Thanks for that mate much apriciated.

Regards,
Matthew :thumb:


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

I have got a couple of the black 3M pads, and they are actually for polishnig, not finishing, however they can be used as a finishing pad with the right polish.

This is my understanding anyway, so you could get 2, one for polishing and the other for finishing.


----------



## VIPER

Clean-my-sxi said:


> I have got a couple of the black 3M pads, and they are actually for polishnig, not finishing, however they can be used as a finishing pad with the right polish.
> 
> This is my understanding anyway, so you could get 2, one for polishing and the other for finishing.


Is it these you have, mate? :thumb:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3M-Polishing-...39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

Yes thats them, he has wrote finishing pads on them but they are polishing pads, or so im led to believe.

Other sites say polishing pads but can be used for finishing


----------



## VIPER

There's quite a few pads labled up as 'polishing' which can, with the right polish, be used for finishing down to an LSP level. Just out of interest, how soft do they feel? Do you have any other pads for comparison? 
As I've said before on this thread, when my SP blue polishing pad dies, I'll be replacing it with the Menzerna 135mm polishing one, but when the SP red finishing one gets to the end of it's life, options are a bit limited for finishing pads in 135mm / 5-5.25" inch size, so I might consider one of these if it's soft enough.

Cheers


----------



## robrobc

Pit Viper said:


> There's quite a few pads labled up as 'polishing' which can, with the right polish, be used for finishing down to an LSP level. Just out of interest, how soft do they feel? Do you have any other pads for comparison?
> As I've said before on this thread, when my SP blue polishing pad dies, I'll be replacing it with the Menzerna 135mm polishing one, but when the SP red finishing one gets to the end of it's life, options are a bit limited for finishing pads in 135mm / 5-5.25" inch size, so I might consider one of these if it's soft enough.
> 
> Cheers


I have a couple of these, also a couple of 135mm Menz pads in white and orange as well as a 6" Elite Orange. Out of all the 4 types I would suggest that the 3M are the softest followed by the Elite Orange and lastly the Menz Pads, which to be fair is how it should be as the Menz pads are for compounding and cutting. 
I would be happy to use the 3M pads for light cutting via say Megs 83 but it is also just as good for polishing and I have achieved good results via AG srp and Megs 80. Hope this helps


----------



## rob3rto

GeeJay said:


> Polishes
> 
> Menz Pads
> 
> Search 3m pads on ebay and you'll find some black waffles @ £4.25 to use as finishing with the 85RD polish
> 
> G


I ordered those too and they had Polishing Pads although some people said they were finishing. Feel soft compared to others.

Have ordered the Menz sample kit and the Menz pads.

Hope that will be all I need.


----------



## GeeJay

rob3rto said:


> Hope that will be all I *need*.


Need - Yes
Want - Never

That's just the beginning!


----------



## VIPER

I think you'll have everything you'll need there - the Menz pads & polishes will be able to tackle most defects in one combination or another - you'll have to experiment a bit. And the 3M black pads, once washed would be perfectly fine for using with a finishing polish to get the paintwork to LSP ready state by all accounts :thumb: I've not had a feel of them personally, but from what you and others have said, they are pretty soft anyway so when they soften up further will function as finishing pad when required.


----------



## rob3rto

GeeJay said:


> Need - Yes
> Want - Never
> 
> That's just the beginning!


SShhh! The Mrs sometimes reads my posts


----------



## rob3rto

Pit Viper said:


> I think you'll have everything you'll need there - the Menz pads & polishes will be able to tackle most defects in one combination or another - you'll have to experiment a bit. And the 3M black pads, once washed would be perfectly fine for using with a finishing polish to get the paintwork to LSP ready state by all accounts :thumb: I've not had a feel of them personally, but from what you and others have said, they are pretty soft anyway so when they soften up further will function as finishing pad when required.


One quick Q.

Read somewhere that peopl put their pads into the washing machine to clean them.

The Mrs would have my n4ds cut off f she saw me do this!

Can they be effectively cleaned by hand in the sink? and with what?


----------



## VIPER

rob3rto said:


> One quick Q.
> 
> Read somewhere that peopl put their pads into the washing machine to clean them.
> 
> The Mrs would have my n4ds cut off f she saw me do this!
> 
> Can they be effectively cleaned by hand in the sink? and with what?


Yup - I only ever do mine in the sink anyway. Fairy liquid massaged into a wet pad to break down and dissolve the polish residue and then thoroughly wrinse under the tap - mine come out like brand new :thumb:


----------



## GeeJay

Same washing method as me, Pit Viper. I'm a little concerned with the washing machine peeling the backing off of the pads so go by hand


----------



## rob3rto

Just plain old Fairy Liquid? Nothing else to soften it?


----------



## VIPER

Yes, works for me. I always wash mine straight after a session (and the same for the pads  :lol: :lol. No seriously I don't leave them for any length of time for the polish residue sitting inside the pad to start to dry - straight on with the Fairy and it breaks it down and dissolves it brilliantly to allow it to be washed and wrinsed out. My pads (and this goes for hand applicators like yellow megs and Sonus SFXs etc. as well) always come out literally like brand new. The machine pads do take some drying out though.


----------



## Gandi

Do not spin dry them on the machine this will cause them to fall apart


----------



## VIPER

Gandi said:


> Do not spin dry them on the machine this will cause them to fall apart


True, and let's face it, some of them don't need any help in that department - they're more than capable of coming to bits on their own in normal use .

I put mine in a small net laundry bag and hang them up to air dry in the house.


----------



## Gandi

So far the other than a Faulty Megs cutting pad which iv had replaced FOC, My megs cutting Pad is starting to go but iv got plenty of others and will be making some 3M pad additions very soon
I just peg mine up until ni on dry then give them 5 mins in the the dryer to get any remaining Dampness out


----------



## Ziggy122

Okay some feedback on the whole Silverline polisher :buffer::buffer:

I've had a good goo with 1 of these 

The machine
£24 from amazon
It has a spare set of motor brush's / dust bag / Wool pad and sanding disc

My box was slightly damaged, the glue had come off - as a result the box kept falling apart.... No worries tho
machine inside was good as new 

The handle - Twist to loosen - twist otherway to tighten - Simple
So i got cracking with having a go at polishing 

Using Men'z cutting pad and Men'z FF2 then PB SSR2.5, the results are slowly starting to show
The fact its a Random orbit means no real pattern, so it does vibrate alot

With a good couple of blasts on most places the results show this machine has the ability to remove defects and leave a nice shine, but it doesn't do it quickly tbh, its going to take about 3 to 5 attempts of with a the cutting power above to remove basic swirls.....
Im pretty sure if it was a Dual Action polisher it'd be a better cutter as the pattern would help 

But for a new person who wants to try machine polishing without running the risk's of wrecking paint - then this is a good starting point! 

Only complaints i've got really are
- It can be a little bit noisey ESP on higher speeds
- The vibrations can make you a little numb
- My dial isn't square/no marker, so its hard to tell what speed im actually on :lol:

Okay there are no 50/50's 
But here are my results  (PB SSR2.5 on Men'z Polishing pad - Finished with a lake County Blue Light cut with Men'z FF2 

















Oh and dont ask me what the foook happened here but this is my Men'z polishing pad :S
I thought i was getting alot of dust but it turns out it weren't.....
ATTACK OF PACMAN!

















Ziggy


----------



## robrobc

rob3rto said:


> Just plain old Fairy Liquid? Nothing else to soften it?


Like what rob3rto, flowers?? choccies?? :lol::lol:

Seriously I am with PitViper on this one, fairy or similar is just great for cleaning.


----------



## VIPER

Ziggy122 said:


> Okay some feedback on the whole Silverline polisher :buffer::buffer:
> 
> I've had a good goo with 1 of these
> 
> The machine
> £24 from amazon
> It has a spare set of motor brush's / dust bag / Wool pad and sanding disc
> 
> My box was slightly damaged, the glue had come off - as a result the box kept falling apart.... No worries tho
> machine inside was good as new
> 
> The handle - Twist to loosen - twist otherway to tighten - Simple
> So i got cracking with having a go at polishing
> 
> Using Men'z cutting pad and Men'z FF2 then PB SSR2.5, the results are slowly starting to show
> The fact its a Random orbit means no real pattern, so it does vibrate alot
> 
> With a good couple of blasts on most places the results show this machine has the ability to remove defects and leave a nice shine, but it doesn't do it quickly tbh, its going to take about 3 to 5 attempts of with a the cutting power above to remove basic swirls.....
> Im pretty sure if it was a Dual Action polisher it'd be a better cutter as the pattern would help
> 
> But for a new person who wants to try machine polishing without running the risk's of wrecking paint - then this is a good starting point!
> 
> Only complaints i've got really are
> - It can be a little bit noisey ESP on higher speeds
> - The vibrations can make you a little numb
> - My dial isn't square/no marker, so its hard to tell what speed im actually on :lol:
> 
> Okay there are no 50/50's
> But here are my results  (PB SSR2.5 on Men'z Polishing pad - Finished with a lake County Blue Light cut with Men'z FF2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and dont ask me what the foook happened here but this is my Men'z polishing pad :S
> I thought i was getting alot of dust but it turns out it weren't.....
> ATTACK OF PACMAN!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ziggy


Just quickly 'cos i'm on my way out:-

Mine doesn't vibrate very much and I've had no problems with it making my hands numb even after a full day of using it continuously.

Not quite sure how you're separating a random orbital with a dual action - what exactly do you mean there?

I'm amazed you'll need 3-5 passes with SSR2.5 on a cutting pad to remove basic swirls as you say. I'd have said that combo and that many goes would only be needed for very heavy swirling and RDSs

It's never going to match the speed of correction of say a G220 or PC as the offset motion of the pad isn't as large so it will inevitably take longer to break polishes down, but then I guess there have to some compromises with a machine that only costs about 1/7th of a specialised 'detailing' machine. I know I've achieved results on my cars (admittedly they were only very lightly swirled in the case of the Puma and the XR2 wasn't at all really, just a few light RDSs) that I simply wouldn't have got by hand.

I think the forte of this machine is for those with only light swirls / spiderwebbing and RDSs who want to be able to remove them and clean up the paint. Any more severe correction work would probably require at least a PC or better still a rotary, but for light correctional duties imo. it's perfectly capable and just a case of knowing its limits.

It is a bit noisy, I'd agree, but as it's probably only going to be used a few times (if that) per year by most people, it's not so bad. I would prefer it to be quieter though.

Lastly, don't know what the hell happened to that pad?? I've never one break that way before - very odd?

Otherwise, glad you've got some results with it, even if you're going to have to experiment a bit with it :thumb:


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Gandi said:


> Do not spin dry them on the machine this will cause them to fall apart


Thanks - you've just saved me some pads.:thumb: I thought it was a great idea to do this but luckily have only done so twice so havn't ruined them.


----------



## Ziggy122

The machine, since it doesn't move in a set pattern, its totally random as you said yes it takes a while for the polish to break down 

I think my punto's paint is quiet hard tbh, its taking a beating and not letting go.....

Im sure a proper dual action would defo work better as that pattern means the polish might break down better 

and the pad thing... i think the velcro was stuck firly on the machine, as i pulled i think i must of weakened it....

The polishing pad is a pain in da monkeys to remove
my LC - Light cut pad is pips and works REALLY well 

Ziggy


----------



## Ziggy122

Question for Pit Viper 

Lake County - Orange - Defect cutting pad
Just as good as a Men'z pad?
Im aware tho that size it's ideal for certain areas not others
Might still have to get a Men'z pad again

Edit : just realised Viper....
i've sealed my paintwork with Car Lack Long life sealent.... that might be why the polish wasn't working that well....
The sealent it taking the beating NOT the swirls....

Ziggy


----------



## jazzmanfq

got mine yesterday a silverline from amazon new but again repaired box!! had a 3m pad from ebay member singh delivered same day but am waiting for an order of products from elite for the goodies.. couldnt resist using anyway but realise the cutting pads are the ones i want to see the best results from.. all seems to work well and the noise does seem to attract attention too! i will try and get some photos shown as i aim to correct some swirling/light scratches on my older car before attempting to do the old mans st220 bonnett:thumb:
hmm i wonder if anyone does free samples!!!


----------



## GeeJay

jazzmanfq said:


> got mine yesterday a silverline from amazon new but again repaired box!! had a 3m pad from ebay member singh delivered same day but am waiting for an order of products from elite for the goodies.. couldnt resist using anyway but realise the cutting pads are the ones i want to see the best results from.. all seems to work well and the noise does seem to attract attention too! i will try and get some photos shown as i aim to correct some swirling/light scratches on my older car before attempting to do the old mans st220 bonnett:thumb:
> hmm i wonder if anyone does free samples!!!


Glad to hear you've managed to get what you need 
You may well find that the 3m pad is a bit of an all rounder to be honest. I've used mine with Menz IP and got a pretty good cut out of it. It does depend a lot on what products you use. Also, don;t forget to start small then work your way up on a test area to get the correction you need.

As for free samples - no chance! lol


----------



## GeeJay

Gandi said:


> Do not spin dry them on the machine this will cause them to fall apart


Following on from this, don't take the pad off of the paintwork after switching off before it has stopped. I always switch the machine off, and keep very light pressure on the paint with the pad. If you take it off, it wobbles everywhere and breaks up.


----------



## VIPER

Ziggy122 said:


> Question for Pit Viper
> 
> Lake County - Orange - Defect cutting pad
> Just as good as a Men'z pad?
> Im aware tho that size it's ideal for certain areas not others
> Might still have to get a Men'z pad again
> 
> Edit : just realised Viper....
> i've sealed my paintwork with Car Lack Long life sealent.... that might be why the polish wasn't working that well....
> The sealent it taking the beating NOT the swirls....
> 
> Ziggy


Not sure on the comparison with the LC orange pad as I've not used them, so someone else might be able to chip in here with a bit of info who's used both that one and the Menz?  When removing the pads try and just get an edge up by pulling on the felt bit rather than the foam and then 'slice' your fingers in between the felt and the backing plate instead of pulling at it from the top - the bond between the felt and the foam is usually weaker that the bond between the felt and the 'hook' of the backing plate (which after use and the machine's vibrations has really bonded the 2 bits of the 'velcro' together) so any failure will be in that weak link between the foam and the felt.

I don't think the sealant was as issue in any way here tbh. a machine polishing session, using whatever machine would soon remove that almost instantly.



GeeJay said:


> Following on from this, don't take the pad off of the paintwork after switching off before it has stopped. I always switch the machine off, and keep very light pressure on the paint with the pad. If you take it off, it wobbles everywhere and breaks up.


^^^ Seconded! You can see me doing that on that video clip on page 43 of this thread - I don't remove it until it's stopped. I have to say I learned this my making the mistake of doing the wrong way  :lol:


----------



## Zetec-SS

I received mine from amazon (MP Tools), also came in a damaged box with gaffa tape on it, but the third pin of the plug is twisted so it doesn't go into the plug socket...i'm going to try and take it to B&Q and see if they will give me a replacement, if they don't let me i will have to go back to Amazon and wait approx 7 - 14 days to get it sorted.

i sourced a Mr2 Mk2 door thats in need of some TLC...luckily i got it free, its got minor swirls in there and some small/big scratches.

i'm thinking whether to just change the plug myself or take it back...*what do you guys think??*...it's been a long time since i've wired a plug, but it is supposed to be a simple job haha:lol:

here's some pics of the damaged box etc



















some pics of the door..tried flash to get swirls but didn't work



















i haven't got a strong enough light to show up the swirls but you get the picture...










still waiting on the delivery from elite. (sorry for oversized pics)

thanks


----------



## superstat

Just get a new plug...easy....

I thought only B+Q did the MAC ones not the Silverline?


----------



## VIPER

If it were me on only a £20 odd piece of equipment I'd just replace the plug myself. This could, of course, invalidate the 3 year warranty and should it develop a fault during that period they might refuse to replace/repair because you didn't just return from new with the damaged plug. If it was £100+ then it would be worth the wait and I'd get them to do it, but for the price of these things just put a new plug on and if it goes wrong within the next 3 years then just get another or a similar one or you may well have moved onto a rotary or whatever by then.

I mean I've already invalidated my warranty by extending the power lead and my thinking on it was as I've described above.


----------



## Gareth2665

*Pleeeeease Help with a Silverline!*

I've had a absolute night mare with my Silverline today!!.

I't doesn't help with the fact that it's the first time i have used one. Anyway, mine will not really spin either. Try to put a bit of pressure on and the bugga stops spinning. At most i can get maybe one spin per second. Take pressure off and it spins no problem.

Subsequently i'm not getting very far. The polish does not appear to break down at all and i end up buffing it with a cloth. I was under the impression that the polish should eventually go clear, slow the speed and buff to a shine with the machine.

I'm sure i am not getting much correction due to the lack of pressure being put on the pad / paintwork.

I have tried both #80 and 83 with both Megs w8006 and 9006. I even cut the pads down to 5" with minimal change.

1) how long should the polish take to break down.
2) should the machine buff to a gloss
3) how much pressure needs to be applied

and is a Pass one pass with the pad over the area being polished

Thanks all

Gareth


----------



## VIPER

Gareth2665 said:


> I've had a absolute night mare with my Silverline today!!.
> 
> I't doesn't help with the fact that it's the first time i have used one. Anyway, mine will not really spin either. Try to put a bit of pressure on and the bugga stops spinning. At most i can get maybe one spin per second. Take pressure off and it spins no problem.
> 
> Subsequently i'm not getting very far. The polish does not appear to break down at all and i end up buffing it with a cloth. I was under the impression that the polish should eventually go clear, slow the speed and buff to a shine with the machine.
> 
> I'm sure i am not getting much correction due to the lack of pressure being put on the pad / paintwork.
> 
> I have tried both #80 and 83 with both Megs w8006 and 9006. I even cut the pads down to 5" with minimal change.
> 
> 1) how long should the polish take to break down.
> 2) should the machine buff to a gloss
> 3) how much pressure needs to be applied
> 
> and is a Pass one pass with the pad over the area being polished
> 
> Thanks all
> 
> Gareth


Sounds to me Gareth like you should have not been so tight and bought a G220! Only kidding, mate (my warped sense of humour :lol: :lol.

I'm guessing by the fact that you still had no success even after cutting the pads down a bit that you have one of the 'over greased' ones that a few others have discussed earlier on in this thread. Someone (forget who, sorry  ) posted some great pics of the machine with its backing plate off and what to do to rectify it.

Most polishes take about 5-10 minutes to break down and you'll either see them start to dust, and/or start to take on a clearer, more oily/greasy looking residue on the paint - a bit like how a wax looks. Experience will teach you to recognise when a polish is ready and further machining will not acheive anything extra and it's time to buff off.

The correct pressure is normally regulated by allowing the pad to spin at at least 1 rev per second although faster is perfectly okay - my video clip on page 43 (I think?) shows my pad rotating at more like 2-3 and that's with a fair bit of pressure.

I think once you look into the greasing of your baring then it could provide an answer to your problems as a few others have tranformed their machine after doing this.


----------



## Gareth2665

Pit,
The first bit of your reply was good one. Had it for a second then. 


Many thanks old bean. I will give it another go tomoro after sorting the bearing out.

Thanks for the help and i will post tomoro with the result 

Gareth


----------



## Zetec-SS

sorry to be a pain in the ass...but for light correct will SSR2 be good enough? the Menz sample is kind of expensive for £20.

if you had to choose...would you pick Poorboys SSR or Menz Sample Polish Kit from Elite?

i've read that the menzerna polishing pads are best...as it seems they spin better?
were talking about this polishing pad yeh? http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=49&products_id=446

not the compound pad?
how long will one of these pads last? 1 full car?
thanks for your help

ps ... http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/polishing/sonus-das-foam-pads/5-dual-action-flexplate/prod_60.html

will that fit on a the Silverline...is there much of an advantage getting one?


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Zetec-SS said:


> sorry to be a pain in the ass...but for light correct will SSR2 be good enough? the Menz sample is kind of expensive for £20.
> 
> if you had to choose...would you pick Poorboys SSR or Menz Sample Polish Kit from Elite?
> 
> i've read that the menzerna polishing pads are best...as it seems they spin better?
> were talking about this polishing pad yeh? http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=49&products_id=446
> 
> not the compound pad?
> how long will one of these pads last? 1 full car?
> thanks for your help
> 
> ps ... http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/polishing/sonus-das-foam-pads/5-dual-action-flexplate/prod_60.html
> 
> will that fit on a the Silverline...is there much of an advantage getting one?


That backing pad won't fit the Silverline without some serious modification - the backing pad is not swappable.

Pads should last much longer than 1 car - but it ultimately depends how you treat them.

For light swirls and polishing to LSP ready finish you can't beat these for price:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150301673233

You'll get a good idea on polishes here: 
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=63859

Polishes aren't my area of expertise as I'm new to this too - sorry I can't give any more detailed info.

Hope that helps!


----------



## VIPER

Zetec-SS said:


> sorry to be a pain in the ass...but for light correct will SSR2 be good enough? the Menz sample is kind of expensive for £20.
> 
> if you had to choose...would you pick Poorboys SSR or Menz Sample Polish Kit from Elite?
> 
> i've read that the menzerna polishing pads are best...as it seems they spin better?
> were talking about this polishing pad yeh? http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=49&products_id=446
> 
> not the compound pad?
> how long will one of these pads last? 1 full car?
> thanks for your help
> 
> ps ... http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/polishing/sonus-das-foam-pads/5-dual-action-flexplate/prod_60.html
> 
> will that fit on a the Silverline...is there much of an advantage getting one?


It's that pad yes, but as stated above alternative backing plates aren't an option for this machine as it's fitted with a non interchangable one. That's not to say it can't be done, but it would be a lot of unnecessary work for no gain. The compound pad is very hard and quite abrasive so unless you have major correction work to do imo. it would be too harsh.

SSR2 will easily cope with mild to medium swirling and I really like it. Anything heavier would need the SSR2.5 if you were sticking with Poorboys or something like the Menz Intensive polish.

With care a pad can last for months and months and do many cars - just make sure you're very careful pulling it off the backing plate so as not to tear the foam part away from the felt part, don't switch the machine on with pad attached in mid air as the vibrations can damage them, only have the machine spinning with the pad attached when it's against the paintwork.

As for preference between the SSR range and the Menz - the Menz are probably superior polishes but I've kind of got used to the way the SSR range work and a big advantage for me is that they can be used in the sun on warm panels, so if you've to work outside a lot then it might be something to consider.


----------



## theshrew

Ive had my delivery of goodies this morning so i can play with my Silverline now. :buffer: :buffer:

I remember someone think it might of been THE VIPER saying about the hardness of pads the other day so i thought id post this so you all no. 

Ive got a couple of the 3M ones off the ebay guy last week and this morning had a Menz Polishing pad and the Sonus Finishing pad delivered. 

The Menz pad is the hardest to touch by far i remember someone saying im not gonna touch my car with that. Now i no why. 

The 3M pad is kinda half way between the hardness of the Sonus and the Menz 

Defo gonna wash the Menz pad before i use it it feels more like a Brillo pad than a polishing pad at the moment. Im gonna give it a go tho since people have had good results with them.


----------



## GeeJay

theshrew said:


> Defo gonna wash the Menz pad before i use it it feels more like a Brillo pad than a polishing pad at the moment. Im gonna give it a go tho since people have had good results with them.


I too was initially scared by the feel of it. If you give it a spritz of QD first, it'll feel a lot better, and as soon as you get polish in it, it'll feel a whole lot less harsh. You'll be fine, but remember never start with your harshest combo :thumb:


----------



## Gareth2665

*First ever detail with Silverline*

This was my first ever detail. Purchased a Silverline the other day but some problems with it yesterday so got fed up. However.... Pit Viper answered my post with some excellent advice. I degreased the bearing and sprayed it with Teflon Lubricant. Big difference!

Tried the Megs #80 on a 9006 finishing pad first but no real change. Finished up using the Megs #83 on a 8006 Polishing pad. Did a couple of passes and was Gobsmacked at the results. The panels were quite badly swirled. Not really deep but loads of them that really showed up in the sun. Then applied colonite wax and Hey Presto!

This is the result. I am very pleased for my first effort.


----------



## GeeJay

WOW!! What a transformation there Gareth! Glad you sorted out the issues, it seems the overgreased bearing was the issue. that sorted mine out a treat too!


----------



## Gareth2665

It's a good job this forum is so good. I was at it for hours yesterday with the silverline and didn't get anywhere. Got really fed up with it. No spin at all really, therefore no correction. Sorted the bearing.... machine working properly and a great result.


----------



## VIPER

Gareth2665 said:


> This was my first ever detail. Purchased a Silverline the other day but some problems with it yesterday so got fed up. However.... Pit Viper answered my post with some excellent advice. I degreased the bearing and sprayed it with Teflon Lubricant. Big difference!
> 
> Tried the Megs #80 on a 9006 finishing pad first but no real change. Finished up using the Megs #83 on a 8006 Polishing pad. Did a couple of passes and was Gobsmacked at the results. The panels were quite badly swirled. Not really deep but loads of them that really showed up in the sun. Then applied colonite wax and Hey Presto!
> 
> This is the result. I am very pleased for my first effort.


Wow - that looks fantastic, Gareth :thumb: :thumb: Amazing transformation there, mate - nice one!

Just to confirm then, anyone else who's bought one of these after reading this (now epic) thread - if it's not performing how you thought it would (or how I tried to show in my Video clip) then it's a 99% chance that it can be quite easily remedied by doing what Gareth's done (and others)


----------



## Mattywatsit

Great results there, its persuading me more and more this thread!! Been to local DIY store tonight and found a Einhell random orbital sander with variable speeds looked exactly like the silverline and was quite lightweight for £24.99 inc. vat, perosnally i thought it was a good price and even has 3 years warranty. I took a picture on my phone but i havent uploaded it yet? Anyone know if it will be the same as silverline?

Thanks,

Regards,
Matthew 

Forgot to mention that it comes with a hard carry case aswell.


----------



## 3dr

Gareth2665 said:


> This was my first ever detail. Purchased a Silverline the other day but some problems with it yesterday so got fed up. However.... Pit Viper answered my post with some excellent advice. I degreased the bearing and sprayed it with Teflon Lubricant. Big difference!
> 
> Tried the Megs #80 on a 9006 finishing pad first but no real change. Finished up using the Megs #83 on a 8006 Polishing pad. Did a couple of passes and was Gobsmacked at the results. The panels were quite badly swirled. Not really deep but loads of them that really showed up in the sun. Then applied colonite wax and Hey Presto!
> 
> This is the result. I am very pleased for my first effort.


no way! your lying! :lol:


----------



## davida3544

Hi

Have had the silverline for two days now and have been using with Menzerna polish and pads.

To be honest the old saying "buy cheap, buy twice" is probably true here. The silverline vibrates a lot but rotates very little and as a result has totaly destroyed one of my pads.

I have never polished before so have nothing to compare it with but when I took the pad off the sander and started to polish by hand I got quicker results. I am trying to reduce swirl marks on BMW paint so know it wont be easy but unless I'm doing something completely wrong this just isnt up to the job.

Sorry to p**s on everyones parade. :newbie:

EDIT: Sorry have just read a previous thread about degreasing the bearing. Will give that a go.


----------



## Gareth2665

Davida3544,

I had the exact same problem on thursday. No spin, no correction and was really disheartened. I wasted a good couple of hours trying. Pit Viper reminded me about the bearing being over greased. I cleaned mine and then sprayed it with Teflon Lubricant that i used for my motorbike chain.

Also i think it takes a bit of getting used to mate. There is definately a nack to it. Right polish, right pad, right amount of polish etc. When it comes together its fantastic. 

Here are some more pics of the paint defects i managed to correct.


----------



## davida3544

Gareth2665 said:


> Davida3544,
> 
> I had the exact same problem on thursday. No spin, no correction and was really disheartened. I wasted a good couple of hours trying. Pit Viper reminded me about the bearing being over greased. I cleaned mine and then sprayed it with Teflon Lubricant that i used for my motorbike chain.
> 
> Also i think it takes a bit of getting used to mate. There is definately a nack to it. Right polish, right pad, right amount of polish etc. When it comes together its fantastic.
> 
> Here are some more pics of the paint defects i managed to correct.


Will give it a go m8. :thumb:


----------



## bluenose

Had a go with the Menz pad and Meg#83 and #80 tonight.. Overall, really pleased with the results. However.... pad rotation is still a problem so I'm off to degrease the bearing (against my better judgement). What the safest way to degrease given I haven't got a specific degreaser to hand?
Ta all...


----------



## Mattywatsit

Mattywatsit said:


> Great results there, its persuading me more and more this thread!! Been to local DIY store tonight and found a Einhell random orbital sander with variable speeds looked exactly like the silverline and was quite lightweight for £24.99 inc. vat, perosnally i thought it was a good price and even has 3 years warranty. I took a picture on my phone but i havent uploaded it yet? Anyone know if it will be the same as silverline?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Regards,
> Matthew
> 
> Forgot to mention that it comes with a hard carry case aswell.


I have been back to the store today to look at it again and see if i could get model number to search for it on the net. We also have a cordless drill made by Einhell and its perormance is good asn has lasted a long time so far, the below url link is to the spec of the DA im talking about. Let me know what you think of it.

click here

Thanks,

Regards,
Matthew :car:


----------



## davida3544

bluenose said:


> Had a go with the Menz pad and Meg#83 and #80 tonight.. Overall, really pleased with the results. However.... pad rotation is still a problem so I'm off to degrease the bearing (against my better judgement). What the safest way to degrease given I haven't got a specific degreaser to hand?
> Ta all...


Ive just stripped mine down and sprayed the bearing with WD. It hasnt removed all the grease but has reduced the friction and will now rotate freely.

The bearing is a stanard type (6002) I think, so would be worth keeping an eye on it. If it does need changing, I will replace mine with a 6002 2RS which has rubber seals (thats what the 2RS stands for, 2 Rubber Seals) as opposed to the metal seals in the one fitted. This will then make it easier to CARFULLY remove the seals and reduce the amount of grease inside. You can then replace the seals. Places like RS components should have the bearing. :buffer:


----------



## rob3rto

Has anyone had strange looks from their neighbours while using the Silverline (noisy bugger for nosey buggers ) ) or dirty looks cos mof the noise?


----------



## bluenose

:wave:
OK, so I degreased the bearing and there was very little difference to be honest. However I did work out that the backing plate was fouling on the rubber fins underneath (the ones attached to rubber skirt with the arrow indicating the rotation direction. See page 42 for pics). So I whipped the backing plate back off, removed the rubber skirt (it just pulls off) and bolted it back together. The plate now spins freely and performs like a dream. I get exactly the rotation I expected!
I'd say lack of rotation could be down to fouling on the rubber fins more than over greased bearing...

Anyway, I'm part through a black Astra (I'll workout how to post pics at some point) and I'm chuffed to bits - it's all buffing marvellous! :buffer:

Oh and I've had a couple of 'what the hecks going on there' looks :lol:


----------



## 3dr

davida3544 said:


> Ive just stripped mine down and sprayed the bearing with WD. It hasnt removed all the grease but has reduced the friction and will now rotate freely.
> 
> The bearing is a stanard type (6002) I think, so would be worth keeping an eye on it. If it does need changing, I will replace mine with a 6002 2RS which has rubber seals (thats what the 2RS stands for, 2 Rubber Seals) as opposed to the metal seals in the one fitted. This will then make it easier to CARFULLY remove the seals and reduce the amount of grease inside. You can then replace the seals. Places like RS components should have the bearing. :buffer:


Nerd! :lol: :thumb:


----------



## Ziggy122

I found something out as well

The spin factor is very important...
When i used glass polish on the screens 

When on vertical pannels, i found letting the machine spin up a little before applying helps u get the right balance for pressure.... as the rotary idea stops spinning if too much pressure is used....
Light pressure it really is...

Ziggy


----------



## VIPER

Hmmm, I must either be luckiest git around (which is unusual I'm normally a really unlucky sod :lol or my silverline is different to everyone else's as I've used mine straight out of the box with no messing about with degreasing or removing the skirt or anything and it still performs perfectly.

As for the comment above about letting it spin up a bit before applying to the panel - (A) doing this will throw polish all over the place and (B) if you have to do that to maintain any kind of rotation speed then the machine is either faulty or it needs a bit of 'tweeking' as has been described in this thread. If you look at my video clip from earlier, that is on a vertical panel and you'll see I switch on the machine whilst it's touching the panel and even under the correct (and reasonably heavy) pressure I am easily able to maintain 2-3 revs per second when on speed 3.

I'm really beginning to think that the one I have was from a previous early batch of machines (I've had mine quite a bit longer than everyone else) which was either constructed differently or assembled with different grease etc. As I'm sure everyone can appreciate, I wasn't to know that the machines people would subsequently purchase after reading this thread would require modification before they performed as mine does.


----------



## VIPER

davida3544 said:


> Hi
> 
> Have had the silverline for two days now and have been using with Menzerna polish and pads.
> 
> *To be honest the old saying "buy cheap, buy twice" is probably true here. The silverline vibrates a lot but rotates very little and as a result has totaly destroyed one of my pads.*
> 
> I have never polished before so have nothing to compare it with but when I took the pad off the sander and started to polish by hand I got quicker results. I am trying to reduce swirl marks on BMW paint so know it wont be easy but unless I'm doing something completely wrong this just isnt up to the job.
> 
> Sorry to p**s on everyones parade. :newbie:
> 
> EDIT: Sorry have just read a previous thread about degreasing the bearing. Will give that a go.


This again illustrates my point (in my last post) about machines being faulty - my unit doesn't vibrate at all, and as I've said of numerous occasions on this thread, several times I've used mine continuously all day without any vibration issues. And to destroy a pad? I find that very odd - were you spinning the machine with pad attached in mid air? If so, that can ruin a pad, but you shouldn't be doing that anyway. In normal use for it to destroy a pad sounds very strange to me - I'm still using the same 2 pads I've always had and both of them have done quite a few cars now. Sounds to me like you have a defect machine.


----------



## bluenose

Pit Viper said:


> Hmmm, I must either be luckiest git around (which is unusual I'm normally a really unlucky sod :lol or my silverline is different to everyone else's as I've used mine straight out of the box with no messing about with degreasing or removing the skirt or anything and it still performs perfectly.
> 
> As for the comment above about letting it spin up a bit before applying to the panel - (A) doing this will throw polish all over the place and (B) if you have to do that to maintain any kind of rotation speed then the machine is either faulty or it needs a bit of 'tweeking' as has been described in this thread. If you look at my video clip from earlier, that is on a vertical panel and you'll see I switch on the machine whilst it's touching the panel and even under the correct (and reasonably heavy) pressure I am easily able to maintain 2-3 revs per second when on speed 3.
> 
> I'm really beginning to think that the one I have was from a previous early batch of machines (I've had mine quite a bit longer than everyone else) which was either constructed differently or assembled with different grease etc. As I'm sure everyone can appreciate, I wasn't to know that the machines people would subsequently purchase after reading this thread would require modification before they performed as mine does.


To be honest, I don't think mine had any problems with the bearing. Removing the skirt just allowed the whole backing plate to spin freely and allowed me to confirm that there was nothing mechanical affecting the performance. I still think that if we put some of the machines in the hands of the viper with your pad polish combo, you'd get them to perform!
Anyway, it seems we're all getting there in the end!


----------



## sasko

*Pads*

Had my first go with the Silverline on Saturday on an older A4 with good results - Menz polishing pad with SRP. Pad has come away a bit from the backing that sticks to the machine but I hope somme glue will sort that out. However did not get much correction so want to move up to something with a bit more bite - is a Menz sample kit the best way to go???

Also planning to degrease the bearing tonight to improve the spin!!

Any advice welcomed:thumb:


----------



## Gareth2665

*Cutting pad*

I Have the megs Polishing and finishing pads 8006 and 9006 but i think i am going to need one with a bit more grunt to do misses's motor. It has a load of swirling and minor scratches.

What is the best option in a 5" please

Ta

Gareth


----------



## bluenose

What polishes are you using with those pads and have you had a go with them already?


----------



## VIPER

sasko said:


> Had my first go with the Silverline on Saturday on an older A4 with good results - Menz polishing pad with SRP. Pad has come away a bit from the backing that sticks to the machine but I hope somme glue will sort that out. However did not get much correction so want to move up to something with a bit more bite - is a Menz sample kit the best way to go???
> 
> Also planning to degrease the bearing tonight to improve the spin!!
> 
> Any advice welcomed:thumb:


I'd say, yes the Menz kit would give you everything you need to achieve the correction you're after - SRP's cut is very mild and wouldn't really give you the results that a dedicated machine polish will. Besides that it will be filling more than it's correcting anyway, so the result is somewhat of an 'artificial' one, for want of a better expression.



Gareth2665 said:


> I Have the megs Polishing and finishing pads 8006 and 9006 but i think i am going to need one with a bit more grunt to do misses's motor. It has a load of swirling and minor scratches.
> 
> What is the best option in a 5" please
> 
> Ta
> 
> Gareth


I'd say the Menz polishing pad is your best (and only?) real option in 125/135mm size - it should have the power to tackle more severe swirling in conjunction with something like Menz PO85RD Intensive Polish, Megs #83 or Poorboys SSR2.5. All of these ideally need refining afterwards with a less aggressive polish like either of the Menz Final Finishes, Megs #80 or SSR2 / SSR1 (keeping them in the same product brand order)


----------



## davida3544

3dr said:


> Nerd! :lol: :thumb:


Pot & kettle comes to mind.

How often do you tell all the lads in the pub about being a member of a car cleaning forum???? :lol: :thumb:


----------



## davida3544

Pit Viper said:


> This again illustrates my point (in my last post) about machines being faulty - my unit doesn't vibrate at all, and as I've said of numerous occasions on this thread, several times I've used mine continuously all day without any vibration issues. And to destroy a pad? I find that very odd - were you spinning the machine with pad attached in mid air? If so, that can ruin a pad, but you shouldn't be doing that anyway. In normal use for it to destroy a pad sounds very strange to me - I'm still using the same 2 pads I've always had and both of them have done quite a few cars now. Sounds to me like you have a defect machine.


Hi Pit Viper

After degreasing the bearing there is a noticable differance and with a bit more practice should get it right. As to the pad, no I wasnt spinning in mid air but it has nearly completely come away from the backing.


----------



## VIPER

davida3544 said:


> Hi Pit Viper
> 
> After degreasing the bearing there is a noticable differance and with a bit more practice should get it right. As to the pad, no I wasnt spinning in mid air but it has nearly completely come away from the backing.


Good to hear :thumbabout the improvement in the machine's performance, not the pad dying :lol Some are worse than others in this respect - my own Serious Performance 'blue' polishing pad has been re-stuck more times than I care to remember and tbh. a few more sessions and it'll have had it. conversely though, my SP 'red' finishing pad is still as good as new and if anything it's had more use than the blue one. I think it's a case of the less tight the cell structure (as would be the case with a coarser polishing pad), the more prone it is to the vibration incurred cell disintegration - well, that's my theory anyway).


----------



## davida3544

What do you use to stick the foam back on??


----------



## VIPER

Well odd as it may seem (and after trying various other things non successfully), just regular superglue. I did have doubts about it to begin with and was worried that it might 'burn' and dissolve the foam like superglue sometimes on some materials, but it did stick it. The only downside is that there's only a finite amount of times you can do this as inevitably the superglue dries rock hard and after a few repair sessions the felt backing starts to get a bit 'crusty' and inflexible which then makes washing it a nightmare. This is why I said my much repaired polishing pad will be binned after the next machine session as although the foam part is still perfectly fine, I just can't do another repair session on the felt part.


----------



## davida3544

Have you ever tried Araldite? I only ask as I've got some in the garage but dont have any superglue.


----------



## sasko

Pit Viper said:


> I'd say, yes the Menz kit would give you everything you need to achieve the correction you're after - SRP's cut is very mild and wouldn't really give you the results that a dedicated machine polish will. Besides that it will be filling more than it's correcting anyway, so the result is somewhat of an 'artificial' one, for want of a better expression.
> 
> Thanks Pit Viper. Have degreased the bearining tonight with good old apc and WD40 spins better already so now want to get out on the car but need a better polish combo so will try the menz kit - any recommendation on where to get it from??
> 
> Cheers
> Sam


----------



## VIPER

davida3544 said:


> Have you ever tried Araldite? I only ask as I've got some in the garage but dont have any superglue.


No David I haven't I'm afraid. I suppose the same theory applies that did with the superglue - it depends on how it 'reacts' with the foam and the felt?

Sam, I think Tim @ CYC does it, but most of our approved traders stock this kit as well as it's quite a popular one.


----------



## sasko

Sam, I think Tim @ CYC does it, but most of our approved traders stock this kit as well as it's quite a popular one.[/QUOTE]

Cheers for all the advice Pit Viper - big help making the leap into machine polishing much easier!!:buffer::thumb:


----------



## VIPER

My pleasure, mate - just happy to spread the knowledge :thumb:


----------



## sasko

Pit Viper said:


> My pleasure, mate - just happy to spread the knowledge :thumb:


Sorry just one more question - better option to get the 4 sample pack or will the RD Twins Intensive Polish and Final Finish with two pads??
Sam


----------



## VixMix

Just though I'd join the foray. I have just bought the Silverline RO from Kingdom Tools. I live in the Kingdom and was passing, they had them in stock so Bobs yer Uncle - I am now the proud owner.

Just got to get some pads and polishes! :wave:

Oh, and time. Where do you buy the time these days - I appear to have none.


----------



## Gareth2665

I am using the Megs #80 and #83. I have not yet tried them on this motor. I guess i should try them first to save wasting money. I thought i would check first. Did not want to start, then realise i did not have a pad to tackle the job. 

As always, thanks for all the help.

Gareth


----------



## VIPER

sasko said:


> Sorry just one more question - better option to get the 4 sample pack or will the RD Twins Intensive Polish and Final Finish with two pads??
> Sam


Actually, Sam, thinking about it I probably would just go for the PO85 RD (pair) as I think between them you'll have what you need. Unless your tackling really heavy swirling and bad RDSs then you're probably not going to use the 'Power Gloss' anyway, and the 2 final finishes included in the kit (the 85 and the 106), on this machine anyway will perform more or less the same. So yes, slightly better option to just get the 2 larger bottles* and have more of the products you'll be using and not be buying things you don't need. 

*Only if you have a fair few cars to do, or think you might have once family/friends start asking. Otherwise the 250ml bottles will be easily big enough.


----------



## sasko

Pit Viper said:


> Actually, Sam, thinking about it I probably would just go for the PO85 RD (pair) as I think between them you'll have what you need. Unless your tackling really heavy swirling and bad RDSs then you're probably not going to use the 'Power Gloss' anyway, and the 2 final finishes included in the kit (the 85 and the 106), on this machine anyway will perform more or less the same. So yes, slightly better option to just get the 2 larger bottles* and have more of the products you'll be using and not be buying things you don't need.
> 
> *Only if you have a fair few cars to do, or think you might have once family/friends start asking. Otherwise the 250ml bottles will be easily big enough.


Thanks Pit Viper - I did think it might be the better option - my polishing pads has start to come away from the backing (super glue repair planned!) so a couple of new pads would be good and I did not want to buy product I would not use so will go for the PO85 RD pair and see how I get on. Not doing really heavy swirling or RDS so that should be a good place to start and then I can see how I go and get more if I need to.

Once again huge thanks for your advice - much appreciated! Time to get an order in I think :thumb:


----------



## bidderman1969

sasko said:


> Thanks Pit Viper - I did think it might be the better option - my polishing pads has start to come away from the backing (super glue repair planned!) so a couple of new pads would be good and I did not want to buy product I would not use so will go for the PO85 RD pair and see how I get on. Not doing really heavy swirling or RDS so that should be a good place to start and then I can see how I go and get more if I need to.
> 
> Once again huge thanks for your advice - much appreciated! Time to get an order in I think :thumb:


you are now officially on the long, slippery slope :lol:


----------



## sasko

bidderman1969 said:


> you are now officially on the long, slippery slope :lol:


I think I have fully slipped now :lol:


----------



## VIPER

bidderman1969 said:


> you are now officially on the long, slippery slope :lol:


Ain't that the truth :lol: and there's no going back. Ah well, it's better than spending it on booze & **** (imo. anyway )


----------



## bidderman1969

or drugs


----------



## sasko

Its just good healthy fun !!!!


----------



## GeeJay

sasko said:


> Its just good healthy fun !!!!


Until you eat the wonderful smelling products such as bubblegum natty's blue, strawberry natty's red, strawberry Last Touch, grape megs endurance. :thumb:


----------



## sasko

GeeJay said:


> Until you eat the wonderful smelling products such as bubblegum natty's blue, strawberry natty's red, strawberry Last Touch, grape megs endurance. :thumb:


:lol: Ain't that the truth - the Duragloss shampoo and AS Cherry Blast air freshner smelly almost too good!!!!


----------



## NeoPanther

Damn you Pit Viper! You're tempting me to spend more money and get one of these!  :lol: :lol:

I've lost track on this thread a bit. I've worked out which pads would work best, but where is the best place to get the Silverline from? Is the Silverline the best one that's been tried so far?

If anyone could help that would be great, as I'm already sorting out scrap car panels to try it out on! :buffer:


----------



## VIPER

NeoPanther said:


> Damn you Pit Viper! You're tempting me to spend more money and get one of these!  :lol: :lol:
> 
> I've lost track on this thread a bit. I've worked out which pads would work best, but where is the best place to get the Silverline from? Is the Silverline the best one that's been tried so far?
> 
> If anyone could help that would be great, as I'm already sorting out scrap car panels to try it out on! :buffer:


:lol: :lol: Sorry, mate 

Regarding the 'best one' well that's up for debate now I suppose? This entire thread has mainly revolved around the Silverline, and although I've been lucky (or so it seems) with mine working perfectly straight out of the box with no modifications from me, others have had issues with over greased bearings severely hampering the torque and spinning abilty, and also with the rubber skirt and one or two other minor things. Having said that, I think everyone's sorted their machines in the end after only minor 'tinkering'.

There have been a few other similarly specced machines mentioned, but as I've no experience of them, I can't say whether they are 'better' or not in the task of polishing. Obviously none of these machines have been specifically designed for what we're using them for and admittedly they do have their limitations compared with the likes of a G220 or PC, and certainly against a rotary, but for mild to medium correction, if you don't mind a bit of noise in use (and it's only going to be a very occasional use after all), and a bit longer in the time they take to break down polishes, then for the huge saving and for someone who just needs to do a couple of cars, then they're well worth a punt imo. 

EDIT: Just seen this thread has passed 30,000 views...unbelievable!!!


----------



## Step_7

I bought one of the B&Q MacAllister ones and I managed to get a quick run over the bonnet of my Megane. OK, I was only using SRP on a 3M polishing pad but I was very pleased with the results - I know the SRP probably just hid the swirls but it hid them very well!  

I had no problem getting rotation on the pad at even low speeds but I'll be getting some SSR at the end of the month and a few more pads to see if I can achieve some proper correction. I'll keep you posted on results.


----------



## reefer110

I was about to order a G220 but after reading some of this thread I may go for one of the models mentioned instead.

One question, sorry if I missed this answered in a revious post but with regard to something like the MacAllister from B&Q does it come with a backing plate suitable for attaching the pads ? I've looked at the pics and it looks like it will take a 5" pad out of the box but what solution do I have when wanting to use something smaller ?

Again sorry if it's been asked before but 58 pages is heavy going at the moment!

Cheers,


----------



## mikeyc_123

*Polisher on ebay.*

Hi All,

Have been into detailing for many years but only AG products. I have recently purchased a BMW 330 m sport convertible and the paintwork was in a bad way when I first got it. I tried AG super resin but there was lots of fall out and problem with the top coat so I clayed it in the end using maguires clay system and it sorted that problem but there are still lots of swirl marks, but mainly on the bonnet. So I am considering purchasing a polisher. I have watched lots of vids on youtube about polishing with a machine polisher and I think i can do it but my main prob is finding the correct one as there seem to be lots out there and many discussed on this forum. I have been watching some on ebay and there is the below:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CAR-POLISHER-...39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I think for £50 is cant be that bad?!?!

Any ideas or help will be greaet with this.. I will probably only use it 2-3 times a year so is it worth it?

Cheers

Mike


----------



## Ziggy122

Where's this link to degreasing the bearing? To help it work better?
Mine dont spin very well either... just ossilating....

I will crack it open and see what mines like 
Just wanna read this guide....

Ziggy


----------



## bidderman1969

mikeyc_123 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Have been into detailing for many years but only AG products. I have recently purchased a BMW 330 m sport convertible and the paintwork was in a bad way when I first got it. I tried AG super resin but there was lots of fall out and problem with the top coat so I clayed it in the end using maguires clay system and it sorted that problem but there are still lots of swirl marks, but mainly on the bonnet. So I am considering purchasing a polisher. I have watched lots of vids on youtube about polishing with a machine polisher and I think i can do it but my main prob is finding the correct one as there seem to be lots out there and many discussed on this forum. I have been watching some on ebay and there is the below:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CAR-POLISHER-...39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
> 
> I think for £50 is cant be that bad?!?!
> 
> Any ideas or help will be greaet with this.. I will probably only use it 2-3 times a year so is it worth it?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Mike


such a cheap ad, *Comes with a 3 year warranty. This is no cheap model, this is trade quality and will go to the highest bidder*

....... on a buy it now


----------



## reefer110

mikeyc_123 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Have been into detailing for many years but only AG products. I have recently purchased a BMW 330 m sport convertible and the paintwork was in a bad way when I first got it. I tried AG super resin but there was lots of fall out and problem with the top coat so I clayed it in the end using maguires clay system and it sorted that problem but there are still lots of swirl marks, but mainly on the bonnet. So I am considering purchasing a polisher. I have watched lots of vids on youtube about polishing with a machine polisher and I think i can do it but my main prob is finding the correct one as there seem to be lots out there and many discussed on this forum. I have been watching some on ebay and there is the below:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CAR-POLISHER-...39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
> 
> I think for £50 is cant be that bad?!?!
> 
> Any ideas or help will be greaet with this.. I will probably only use it 2-3 times a year so is it worth it?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Mike


I'm far from the expert but the pics look like a Silverline Orange to me....as do the pads look like the Silverline shown on Kingdom tools site ??


----------



## mazda3_daveg

mikeyc_123 said:


> Any ideas or help will be greaet with this.. I will probably only use it 2-3 times a year so is it worth it?


To me it looks like a rotary polisher. This isn't a problem - but you will have to be careful. They generate a lot of heat and without care can easily "burn through" the clearcoat to the paint - requiring a re-spray of that panel.

The polishers everyone in this thread are using are called DA (dual action) or RO (random orbit) polishers. They use an oscillating motion combined with a orbital one. The result is less cut - but you don't need hours of practice and there is very little risk of causing damage.

I was in the same situation as you - want to correct some swirling and defects but won't use the machine more than a couple of times a year. I would get the Silverline polisher. Loads of users have it so there is lots of advice on the pads/polish to use. Plus it's only £25 so you have more £££ to put towards pads/polish. It has been proven the level of correction it offers is 90% of the more expensive tools at a much lower price. :buffer:

http://www.transtools.co.uk/store/p...9670-hi-spec-125mm-random-orbital-sander.html

Hope that helps!
Dave


----------



## jazzmanfq

heres the new stock just waiting for the decent weather to use and hopefully correct :thumb::buffer:


----------



## GeeJay

jazzmanfq said:


> heres the new stock just waiting for the decent weather to use and hopefully correct :thumb::buffer:


Nice little collection there, you're going to LOVE that 3m pad! (have you degreased the bearing? :thumb


----------



## VIPER

Can we keep any posts relating to rotary polishers off this thread please as it would take it off on a whole different tangent and newbies to the site will already find the the length of this thread a bit overwhelming as it is.

By all means start a new thread relating to Silverline rotary polishers but to avoid muddying the waters here can we stick to the topic of the DA machines please.

PV


----------



## Ziggy122

just degreased mine 
Wiped worst off - quick spray with WD, and it seems on a quick test on the old hand, light pressure = Spinning 
BRING ON GOOD WEATHER TOMMOROW! 

Ziggy


----------



## jazzmanfq

not yet but want to do this as i am sure mine isnt at full speed .. my cars are pretty much protected so would need to break down that protection to correct .. am going to try the new mazerna pack and pads hopefully thursday.. and degrease that bearing before hand too.. what would be ideal for light swirls on a scooby in wr blue??poorboys + 3m pad?? my first try with this and t.b.h was expecting more but have made allowances for being a newb!!! having seen some before and afters am certain to be extremely happy if those results are matched!!:thumb:


----------



## Zetec-SS

atlast my products have came from elite, i'm just about to start the paint correction (1st time ever), just finishing putting on the plug. I've read that you should only use one polish per pad? i was thinking of using two polishes on this pad as i only have one...is this a good idea?

would appreciate quick response as i will start in the next 5mins lol

i will probably be using PO106FF on a polishing pad and then SRP'ing after on the same pad?

thanks in advance.


----------



## notsosmall

Zetec-SS said:


> atlast my products have came from elite, i'm just about to start the paint correction (1st time ever), just finishing putting on the plug. I've read that you should only use one polish per pad? i was thinking of using two polishes on this pad as i only have one...is this a good idea?
> 
> would appreciate quick response as i will start in the next 5mins lol
> 
> i will probably be using PO106FF on a polishing pad and then SRP'ing after on the same pad?
> 
> thanks in advance.


Why not just give it a rinse out in between products! will stop cross contamination and get an other pad for next time :lol:


----------



## Zetec-SS

notsosmall said:


> Why not just give it a rinse out in between products! will stop cross contamination and get an other pad for next time :lol:


k thanksi'll do that...here goes.


----------



## VIPER

It's not ideal to be using 2 different products on the same pad, but if you _have_ to, then as long you follow the rule of making sure the most abrasive one is used first, then you might be okay. Having said that, when an abrasive polish is worked correctly for right amount of time then it will have had all the abrasives broken down anyway and will be effectively 'dead' for want of a better expression. As said a quick wrinse through wouldn't hurt although getting it dry enough to reuse might be an issue. Try and get another pad as soon as you can and just keep one for polishing and another for finishing.


----------



## bluenose

Do you not always start with the least abrasive and then get harsher if needed or have I got it wrong?


----------



## VIPER

bluenose said:


> Do you not always start with the least abrasive and then get harsher if needed or have I got it wrong?


Yes, of course when you're experimenting or working on an unfamiliar car but what I meant is if you have for eg. Megs #83 and #80 to use on the car and only the one pad you'd be using the #83 first and refining with the #80.

With only the one pad you wouldn't want to be going over with the #80 and then realising it wasn't enough, switching to the #83 to get the required correction and then, _on the same pad_, going back to the #80 to burnish and refine the finish. As I said, the more agressive polish (in this eg. the #83) should be broken down and 'redundant' but I still wouldn't risk it given the choice as inevitably some will have migrated inside the pad, not been worked by the machine and broken down, and could come out when using the finishing product. Hope that makes sense


----------



## bluenose

Doh! sorry, yes I see what your saying now.


----------



## bidderman1969




----------



## maersk

Check out Machine Mart's Clarke random orbit sander. Ok 50 notes but angle grinder body like the EXPENSIVE Meguiar product. I KNEW they wern't that expensive to make!

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/...-contractor-150mm-random-orbital-sander/path/

I wonder how big the orbit is? :buffer:


----------



## VIPER

maersk said:


> Check out Machine Mart's Clarke random orbit sander. Ok 50 notes but angle grinder body like the EXPENSIVE Meguiar product. I KNEW they wern't that expensive to make!
> 
> https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/...-contractor-150mm-random-orbital-sander/path/
> 
> I wonder how big the orbit is? :buffer:


Heeeelllllooooo :thumb: That looks like a good bit of kit - nice find, mate!!

Has a fair bit more grunt than the Silverline's 450w and would take all the 6/6.5" pads with ease I'd expect. Going to check this baby out a bit further :thumb:

Everyone....chuck out your new Silverlines, we have a new contender!!

:lol: only joking, but I have to say, if I'd have seen that before buying mine, then I might have gone for it on one of the special VAT free and 10% off all Clarke products days that I get regularly invited to at my local Machine Mart 

EDIT: The 4-7000 OPM is much closer to the 2760-6900 of a G220 as well, but even downloading the manual it doesn't say what the offset of the throw is, or at least I can't see it?


----------



## VIPER

I soooo want one of those ^^^ now :lol: 

Right, seeing as I've done all the leg (and fingerwork ) on the Silverline, can someone else take up the batton, get one of these and tell the rest of us what it's like? :lol: :lol: 

Ah, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on...........go on.


----------



## reefer110

Pit Viper said:


> EDIT: The 4-7000 OPM is much closer to the 2760-6900 of a G220 as well, but even downloading the manual it doesn't say what the offset of the throw is, or at least I can't see it?


Gonna drop Clarke Int'l an email to ask, will post back if I get a response


----------



## VIPER

reefer110 said:


> Gonna drop Clarke Int'l an email to ask, will post back if I get a response


Cheers for that, would be good to know, nice one! :thumb:


----------



## reefer110

Was a bit late in the day for a response but hopefully before the weekend. I see there is a phone number in that pdf also so if I have time I may give them a bell instead.


----------



## robrobc

Pit Viper said:


> I soooo want one of those ^^^ now :lol:
> 
> Right, seeing as I've done all the leg (and fingerwork ) on the Silverline, can someone else take up the batton, get one of these and tell the rest of us what it's like? :lol: :lol:
> 
> Ah, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on...........go on.


I am surprised that you dont mail them......point them in the direction of this, your thread, they must appreciate the level of buying power you can bring to them and they must surely give you one for free


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Pit Viper said:


> I soooo want one of those ^^^ now :lol:


I am actually willing to open a pot - "Pit Viper's Machine Mart Fund". I have gained so much from this thread and sure others have too. Heck, if 50 of us pay £1 each to say thanks he can have a nice machine in return for all the work and words of advice.

Anyone else?


----------



## 3dr

mazda3_daveg said:


> I am actually willing to open a pot - "Pit Viper's Machine Mart Fund". I have gained so much from this thread and sure others have too. Heck, if 50 of us pay £1 each to say thanks he can have a nice machine in return for all the work and words of advice.
> 
> Anyone else?


nah **** him :lol:


----------



## Step_7

G220 - £150
B&Q MAC - £30

Money saved = £120..... Yeah, I reckon I can spare a quid for the pot....


----------



## Zetec-SS

my products arrived from elite (loving the box :lol: )










so i had a quick play on the DA before i went to work...

cleaned with *AG BWS*...then hand polished with* SRP* this is what it looked like (remember these *pics are AFTER BWS + SRP*)




























here is the pic after i used *Menzerna Final Finish Polish P0106FA* with the DA.










i'm well happy with the results to say the least lol, the polish i was using only has a cut of 4/10...these swirles/scratches are MINOR for the DA.

sorry i haven't got more pics, i had to rush to work..made the day go a big quicker though :lol:

i'll get some more for you guys tomorrow.

edit : 
thanks to the OP and Pit and a few others for making this thread! i wouldn't of got it otherwise.


----------



## Sharpy

:doublesho:doublesho wow thats pretty damn good correction, im seriously considering one of these now as i have a 2nd car on the drive that im wanting to sell and is pretty swirled like your red paint....

i might wait ti hear more info on this clarke one too


----------



## Zetec-SS

sharpy24 said:


> :doublesho:doublesho wow thats pretty damn good correction, im seriously considering one of these now as i have a 2nd car on the drive that im wanting to sell and is pretty swirled like your red paint....
> 
> i might wait ti hear more info on this clarke one too


thanks mate, i would definately recommend the silverline DA to anyone.


----------



## GeeJay

Excellent correction pics there, Zetec-SS! Pretty much what I'm achieving with mine! Super surprised that the 106FA has got achieved that good a cut, I had to use IP and then 85RD to finish for that sort of swirling on my car.
What pad was that using?


----------



## bluenose

Superb result and a quality set of pics. I've managed to get similar results with my Meg#83, 80 and menz pad combo. Happy days...


----------



## VIPER

3dr said:


> nah **** him :lol:


Oi!! :lol: :lol:

Superb work there, Zetec SS - top marks, mate!


----------



## VIPER

mazda3_daveg said:


> I am actually willing to open a pot - "Pit Viper's Machine Mart Fund". I have gained so much from this thread and sure others have too. Heck, if 50 of us pay £1 each to say thanks he can have a nice machine in return for all the work and words of advice.
> 
> Anyone else?





Step_7 said:


> G220 - £150
> B&Q MAC - £30
> 
> Money saved = £120..... Yeah, I reckon I can spare a quid for the pot....


Many thanks guys!! nice to get some feedback like this and know that others have gained something out of my input to DW :thumb:


----------



## Zetec-SS

just after your opinions..










how much of a door should this last? half? quarter? all?

from my previous correction shots..that was used on a quarter of a door.


----------



## GeeJay

Generally, I'd use that sort of amount to 'prime' the pad on first use, and use that over a 2' square area (half a door or so), and anything after that, just top up with 2 or 3 pea sized blobs. Twinned with the polish already in the pad, 2/3 peas will do a similar sized area


----------



## GeeJay

I noticed you have the dust bag attached, I wouldn't have thought this collect anything and just get in the way,as this is designed to lift sanding dust through holes in the disc. What are your experiences?


----------



## Zetec-SS

GeeJay said:


> I noticed you have the dust bag attached, I wouldn't have thought this collect anything and just get in the way,as this is designed to lift sanding dust through holes in the disc. What are your experiences?


yeh it didnt catch anything at all :lol: i noticed this when i turned it up to speed 2 and the thing came flying off. didn't use it after that.


----------



## VIPER

GeeJay said:


> Generally, I'd use that sort of amount to 'prime' the pad on first use, and use that over a 2' square area (half a door or so), and anything after that, just top up with 2 or 3 pea sized blobs. Twinned with the polish already in the pad, 2/3 peas will do a similar sized area


As above ^^^ pretty much what I'd do :thumb:

As for the bag, It does make it a tad quieter though if you're at all concerned about disturbing the neighbours.

Er....how's this 'Viper Machine Mart Fund' coming along?  :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> As for the bag, It does make it a tad quieter though if you're at all concerned about disturbing the neighbours.


I find panel vibration the loudest!:buffer:


----------



## VIPER

GeeJay said:


> I find panel vibration the loudest!:buffer:


Yeah, whatever, mate  now about this 'buy PV that Clarke DA machine' 

Only joking  It's worst when in the middle of the bonnet or roof isn't it? but I suppose it goes with the nature of the machine. I've not found it to be a problem though, just 'drones' a bit sometimes.


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> It's worst when in the middle of the bonnet or *roof *isn't it? but I suppose it goes with the nature of the machine. I've not found it to be a problem though, just 'drones' a bit sometimes.


Silent as a mouse on the convertible 

Yeah, noise it's not a problem in the slightest, it's just that sweet spot on the bonnet that drones


----------



## VIPER

VixMix said:


> Just though I'd join the foray. I have just bought the Silverline RO from Kingdom Tools. I live in the Kingdom and was passing, they had them in stock so Bobs yer Uncle - I am now the proud owner.
> 
> Just got to get some pads and polishes! :wave:
> 
> Oh, and time. *Where do you buy the time these days *- I appear to have none.


I think someone's organising one of DW's legendary group buys on this, so watch this space! (if only  :lol

You got the rest of your kit yet and made a start?


----------



## maersk

Oi!

The Clark is MINE.


E-mailed about orbit but no reply as yet.. Must be at least 4mm. :tumbleweed:


----------



## Zetec-SS

here is some more pics i've taken before i chucked the practice MR2 Door.

as you can see there is minor swirls close the rubstrip on the corrected side, i have to say this was just a quick blast i did just before i thrown the door away, those swirls/scratches could easily of come out.



















thanks again.


----------



## maersk

What is the orbit diameter of the Meguiars G220? Anyone know?

I have trawled the net to no success.


----------



## 3dr

joking aside, i for one would gladly give £1 towards getting Pit Viper one of the Clarke machines, it would be £1 well spent in my eyes, it could save us all a lot of cash in the long run, seeing as Mr Viper is less "blinkered" than most shall we say, i'll start the ball rolling and will gladly put £1 in his PP account to further research the myth of the DA Polisher = £150 minimum :thumb:

1. 3dr


----------



## Step_7

3dr said:


> joking aside, i for one would gladly give £1 towards getting Pit Viper one of the Clarke machines, it would be £1 well spent in my eyes, it could save us all a lot of cash in the long run, seeing as Mr Viper is less "blinkered" than most shall we say, i'll start the ball rolling and will gladly put £1 in his PP account to further research the myth of the DA Polisher = £150 minimum :thumb:


I wasn't joking.... 

1. 3dr
2. Step_7
3.


----------



## 3dr

Step_7 said:


> I wasn't joking....


 i was when i said **** him :lol:


----------



## mazda3_daveg

maersk said:


> What is the orbit diameter of the Meguiars G220? Anyone know?
> 
> I have trawled the net to no success.


How desperate are you to know? If you are really really desperate I could find out by taking a slow speed photo of it in action with a black dot on it and measure the size of the circle against a ruler?


----------



## mazda3_daveg

1. 3dr
2. Step_7
3. mazda3_daveg


----------



## VIPER

You guys!  Very humbled (and little embarrassed by this gesture), but I appreciate the kind spirit in which it's offered and that respect I'm very, very grateful :thumb: As I've said to Dave, I'm just glad that I've opened the door to basic machine polishing to those who might not have attempted it otherwise, and it's a real buzz for me to see the pics on this thread and read about how they've had some success with it on their cars.

Thanks again :thumb:


----------



## 3dr

32,847 views and 628 replies and only £3, pathetic at best! come on you mofo's it's all about research  the quicker PV gets one, we get to see if it's any good or not, it could save us £52!


----------



## maersk

Really, really...........................................

Interested. It does not seem to be published anywhere............... :speechles :buffer:


----------



## SixDegrees

Ones similar to the B&Q MAC go on eBay for under £20 ! (inc post)


----------



## bidderman1969

Pit Viper said:


> You guys!  Very humbled (and little embarrassed by this gesture), but I appreciate the kind spirit in which it's offered and that respect I'm very, very grateful :thumb: As I've said to Dave, I'm just glad that I've opened the door to basic machine polishing to those who might not have attempted it otherwise, and it's a real buzz for me to see the pics on this thread and read about how they've had some success with it on their cars.
> 
> Thanks again :thumb:


im not too proud, send it to me instead


----------



## 3dr

i had 3 minutes to spare this morning so i went out and had a play with my cheapo £19.99 B&Q pro user DA, used some 3M Ultra Fine SE on a Black 3M waffle pad, gave it a good going over till the compound went clear, then repeated it, this was the result it gave with a polish or wax applied, to say i'm happy with it is an understatment!, the car is a 57 plate Focus in Panther Black with only 6k on the clock! :lol: i have some more pics but tbh my camera skills aren't great :thumb: i imagine if you had the time to refine the finish and apply a polish like AG SRP followed by Colli 476, it would look amazing! (you can still see some RIDS etc) the photo's were taken in very overcast conditions too, it looked 300% better in the metal


----------



## SixDegrees

I was in B&Q not 1/2 ago.... they seem to have 3 in my local store; one at £44, 125mm only, smallest of them, a mid-seied one at £19.99, think this is the one you have again 125mm only (comes in a white box?), and the MAC one at £34.99 which 150mm and 125mm.

Now, as I'm new to machine polishing I'm kinda hesitant about buying a sander which a variable speed; 4000-11,000 rpms as I don't have any point of referenc as to what to do where-as there are guides on how to use the PC or G220, ie use No1 or No3 speed, etc

How do the speed settings on the PC and G220 correlate to those on these random orbital 'sanders' in terms of thr rpms, etc that you would use - the same? or not.....


----------



## HEADPHONES

Many thanks to all contributors to this thread and detailingworld as a whole.

Ordered my silverline yesturday from Kingdomtools.
Once it arrives and I know the bearings are OK I hope to order some Menz pads and polish.


----------



## NeoPanther

I'll put £5 into the PV experiment pot. :thumb:

10% investment seems a good deal to me, if it means I get a better polisher in the end.


----------



## robrobc

3dr said:


> 32,847 views and 628 replies and only £3, pathetic at best! come on you mofo's it's all about research  the quicker PV gets one, we get to see if it's any good or not, it could save us £52!


I agree......what is wrong with these people btw £1 is a bit steep for me :lol::lol: how about 50p


----------



## NeoPanther

1. 3dr
2. Step_7
3. mazda3_daveg
4. NeoPanther - £5
5. robrobc the tightwad- £0.50


----------



## SixDegrees

Where in the thread is PVs PayPal detials... 

I'll drop a couple of £ in as well... am keen to find out how the MAC @ B&Q fairs - it was the £30 MAC that is going to be used for this . I'm new to machines so don't really want to spend £150 on G220 when I can spend £30 and get 80% of the results!

:0


----------



## reefer110

NeoPanther said:


> 1. 3dr
> 2. Step_7
> 3. mazda3_daveg
> 4. NeoPanther - £5
> 5. robrobc the tightwad- £0.50


Count me in as well


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Right guys lets get this going! Update the list below when you have paid PV so we can see when we reach the magic £52. I don't think people should have to put how much they donated, so only add it if you want.

I recommend people send the funds as a "gift" with Paypal. This prevents PV loosing half the money to fees.










1. 3dr
2. Step_7
3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 *PAID*
4. NeoPanther - £5
5. robrobc the tightwad- £0.50
6. reefer110

*TOTAL: £1.50*


----------



## Gareth2665

I will definately put to PV's fund. He was a great help to me when i was first having problems with my silverline, polish, etc.

How are we paying then guys. I saw the bit about paypal but need his / your details first.

Gareth


----------



## 3dr

mazda3_daveg can you PM me PV's PP details please, i PM'd him but got no reply yet?


----------



## 3dr

SixDegrees said:


> Where in the thread is PVs PayPal detials...
> 
> I'll drop a couple of £ in as well... am keen to find out how the MAC @ B&Q fairs - it was the £30 MAC that is going to be used for this . I'm new to machines so don't really want to spend £150 on G220 when I can spend £30 and get 80% of the results!
> 
> :0


the money we're trying to raise is to buy the clarke one from machine mart http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cros2-contractor-150mm-random-orbital-sander/path/ as this is a new one added to the fold, and seeing as the orange silverline has seemed to have proved itself for £20, it's worth finding out if this new one is any good for £52  btw the one i have is the white box £19.99 jobbie ffrom B&Q


----------



## RJH

If someone pm's me PV's details I'll chip in. :thumb: Still tempted to trial it myself tho :buffer:

Richard


----------



## 3dr

RJH said:


> If someone pm's me PV's details I'll chip in. :thumb: Still tempted to trial it myself tho :buffer:
> 
> Richard


for the sake of a £1 and a week or so, i'd wait  :thumb:


----------



## robrobc

3dr said:


> mazda3_daveg can you PM me PV's PP details please, i PM'd him but got no reply yet?


Me too.............then I can send my 50p


----------



## Step_7

Likewise - PM me the details and I'll send my donation to the "PV Polisher Slush Fund"


----------



## GeeJay

Hold on...on the flip side of this coin, this £1 could inadvertently turn in to £53! In actual fact...£73 if we factor in the original SilverLine investment. Count me out! 

Only kidding  PM me his address please!

...now watch for the influx of silverline's on ebay


----------



## VIPER

Morning guys :wave:

Not been on here over the weekend so all PMs replied to now :thumb:

What I've thought about doing is having some kind of competition or raffle (would have to check with the mods of course) to win my current Silverline DA machine when I've got the new one. Probably something like all the members who've posted on this thread would be in the draw, or something like that? It's still working perfectly (never missed a beat in all the time I've had it) it has an extended power lead and I've still got the box. We can sort this out when the time comes 

Many thanks to all those on the list :thumb:


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> Not been on here over the weekend so all PMs replied to now :thumb:
> 
> What I've thought about doing is having some kind of competition or raffle to win my current Silverline DA machine when I've got the new one. Probably something like all the members who've posted on this thread would be in the draw, or something like that?


All the members who have donated :thumb:

PS - where's my PM? :tumbleweed:


----------



## VIPER

I can't see anything in my inbox, mate? When did you send it?


----------



## GeeJay

I just posted on here, asking for your PP address


----------



## VIPER

SixDegrees said:


> I was in B&Q not 1/2 ago.... they seem to have 3 in my local store; one at £44, 125mm only, smallest of them, a mid-seied one at £19.99, think this is the one you have again 125mm only (comes in a white box?), and the MAC one at £34.99 which 150mm and 125mm.
> 
> Now, as I'm new to machine polishing I'm kinda hesitant about buying a sander which a variable speed; 4000-11,000 rpms as I don't have any point of referenc as to what to do where-as there are guides on how to use the PC or G220, ie use No1 or No3 speed, etc
> 
> How do the speed settings on the PC and G220 correlate to those on these random orbital 'sanders' in terms of thr rpms, etc that you would use - the same? or not.....


I can totally understand your confusion on this as different manufacturers use different measures when quoting the specs of their machines - some use OPM (oscillations per minute) and some use RPM. Strictly speaking machines of this type should stick to OPM and the RPM speeds should be left to the 'rotary' polishers. All I will say is that the Silverline, which this thread is based around, has the speeds quoted as being 4000-12000 (now that is sometimes given as OPM and sometimes as RPM depending on the site it's on). In practice, on the lowest speed it generally is able to spin the pad at about 1 rev per second and this is the speed that I use for spreading the polish around the surface. I then normally turn it up to #3 for working the polish. (on the vid clip on page 43 of this thread, you can see me doing this).

Now, as a G220 for eg. has a speed range of 2760-6900, keeping machines like the Silverline (and the others that have been mentioned on here with very similar specs) to between #1 and #3, that should, broadly speaking, keep it within the parameters of the G220's range - eg. the Silverline on speed #3 should, in theory, be running at about 7,000 ish, or roughly the equivalant to a G220 on it's max setting.

Another thing to bare in mind, however, is that these 'sander' machines usually have a smaller offset to the random orbit (or the 'throw') so a slightly increased operating speed isn't too much of an issue as it's compensated to a degree by the slightly smaller offset. tbh. though, I wouldn't get too hung up on the comparisons of the speeds between various machines of the DA type, as unlike a rotary polisher for eg. that maybe had a very high RPM and would be a definite issue, it's still extremely unlikely that you could cause any damage if you stick to the lower end of the speed control.


----------



## NeoPanther

1. 3dr
2. Step_7
3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 *PAID*
4. NeoPanther - £5 *PAID*
5. robrobc the tightwad- £0.50
6. reefer110
7. RJH

TOTAL: £6.50

Anyone else? Just add yourself to the list. :thumb:


----------



## bluenose

NeoPanther said:


> 1. 3dr
> 2. Step_7
> 3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 *PAID*
> 4. NeoPanther - £5 *PAID*
> 5. robrobc the tightwad- £0.50
> 6. reefer110
> 7. RJH
> 8. Bluenose £2 (paid)
> 
> TOTAL: £8.50
> 
> Anyone else? Just add yourself to the list. :thumb:


Damn good value for all the help I've had. This does give me free reign to bug PV with every pad, polish, machine type question I might have :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

bluenose said:


> Damn good value for all the help I've had. *This does give me free reign to bug PV with every pad, polish, machine type question I might have* :thumb:


I'll not notice any difference then :lol: Only joking, of course. Thanks, mate  My PM box is always open for any questions (providing I remember to keep emptying it that is :lol


----------



## bluenose

You'll get 3 quid if can sort a summer for next year...


----------



## VIPER

GeeJay said:


> *All the members who have donated *:thumb:
> 
> PS - where's my PM? :tumbleweed:


I think that's the fairest way to do it, you're right. All the members who are on the list after the total is reached will go into a hat and I'll draw a winner who will then receive my Silverline DA as prize :thumb:. As I've said, it would be silly for me to then have 2 machines and it means someone else can also benefit from everyone's generosity


----------



## VIPER

bluenose said:


> You'll get 3 quid if can sort a summer for next year...


Yeah, it would be nice wouldn't it? mind you we are having a mild (and comparatively dry) Autumn, so it could be worse I suppose.

EDIT: Oh, btw. It only needs to get to £44, not £52 as I get regularly invited to the VAT free days at my local Machine Mart and the next one will probably be the end of Nov / early Dec, so I'd get it then


----------



## garylythgoe

This is excellent, intruiged reading it all!

Really was resisting buying a G220 due to the cost (Mrs would kill me!) but now these 'budget' options are available, its really now or never!

This £20 silverline one, is it the 868663 one as per this link? Click me

P.S I will donate some cash in tonight to find out about the Clarke one (im a big machine mart fan!)


----------



## VIPER

garylythgoe said:


> This is excellent, intruiged reading it all!
> 
> Really was resisting buying a G220 due to the cost (Mrs would kill me!) but now these 'budget' options are available, its really now or never!
> 
> This £20 silverline one, is it the 868663 one as per this link? Click me
> 
> P.S I will donate some cash in tonight to find out about the Clarke one (im a big machine mart fan!)


Hi, mate :wave: (and thanks :thumb

No, that machine in the link there is a rotary. The machine's discussed in this thread are all Dual Action, or Random Orbit machines.

Rotary machines work at much higher rotation speeds and use this speed, and the resultant heat build up to acheive the paintwork correction. DA machines use a counterweighted spinning motion to move the pad around in a random orbital fashion (hence the name). This mimicks the action your hand would take if you were polishing by hand. They still spin around but only at a few revs per second and use the vibration to work the polish as opposed to the pad spinning at anything between 600 and a couple of thousand rpm for a rotary machine.

I think there are still some traders who have the orange Silverline machine in stock..or you could win one  (although it would be a 'used' one)


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

I'm going to get some SSR2.5 soon and give the silverline a go with that. I was having some issues with the pad stopping, but I think SRP gives a pretty high friction level as it dries so quickly. Plus I've seen that other people say that pressing harder seems to get it going again....bizarre, but I'll give it a go! All I need now is to help get the shed out of the garage (yes, you did read that right) OR stop living with the rents lol

I'll pop down to machine mart in Croydon next weekend and check these out pit, see if they are any good.

On a side note, bearing degreasing. I've had a rummage through the thread, but I haven't actually seen a post telling us how to do it....or more to the point, where to access the bearings, am I going blind?!

AND on another note (jesus, going on today!) the one chance I've had to use it so far was when it was about 20 degrees a few weekends ago, the air flow from the back was lovely and cooling lol


----------



## NeoPanther

MG - This should be what you're after.


----------



## VIPER

^^^ +1 (I've just been trawling through this thread looking for that as well :lol

I think it's got so big now, it needs a chapter page at the start :lol:

SRP does tend to dry out quite quickly with this machine and I've found that out as well, although I don't think the resulting added friction would be sufficient to cause pad rotation speed issues. There is quite a knack to getting the right pressure to ensure the right pad rotation speed and it's true, sometimes applying too little pressure means that the pad doesn't have the resistance against the paintwork to 'drive' it. You'll have all probably noticed that on a very curved surface (curving away from the machine) or when you allow the some of the pad surface to go over the edge of a panel then it slows down or even comes to a stop. It's only when the full surface area of the pad is in contact with the panel that regains the 'drive' again. It is a bit odd, but that's how they work 

Look forward to hearing about what you think about the Clarke when you look at it :thumb:


EDIT: just noticed the number of this post!!! :devil:


----------



## mazda3_daveg

garylythgoe said:


> This £20 silverline one, is it the 868663 one as per this link? Click me


This is the one you want:

http://www.transtools.co.uk/store/p...9670-hi-spec-125mm-random-orbital-sander.html


----------



## theminimus

I've just ordered mine from transtools £22.41 delivered can't be bad (had to order some other stuff from there).

I also ordered Sonus SFX-2 and SFX-3 pads.

Any advice on which polish to use for a light correction on a black Mitsubishi Shogun?

This is the result I got by hand:


----------



## mazda3_daveg

For light correction I have been using Menzerna 106FF. Great stuff.


----------



## VIPER

theminimus said:


> I've just ordered mine from transtools £22.41 delivered can't be bad (had to order some other stuff from there).
> 
> I also ordered Sonus SFX-2 and SFX-3 pads.
> 
> Any advice on which polish to use for a light correction on a black Mitsubishi Shogun?
> 
> This is the result I got by hand:


Personally for light correction I'd go for Poorboys SSR2 (just because I like the SSR ranges) as it finishes down to LSP ready level and will tackle minor to medium swirling on most paints. 
Other alternatives are the Menz PO 106 Final Finish (I think the PO 85RD Final Finish might not have quite enough abrasive, so don't get these 2 mixed up, and the PO 85RD 3.02 Intensive polish might be a tad too much).
Another would be Meguiars #80.

Bit hard to say with total accuracy as I can't see the full extent of the paintwork defects from that photo, but on the face of it, I don't think you want to be going too abrasive, looking at the gloss level you've already acheived by hand, hence why the polishes I've mentioned are only very light abrasives.


----------



## Mattywatsit

Still looking into this.....

I walked into B&Q today and they had 7 boxes containing Triton random orbital sanders in the clearence section. They didnt have a price on, i didnt have much time today but may pop back through and ask, if anyone can shed a light on if there anything like the silverline. 

On another note im liking hte look of that Clarke machine!!! :argie:

Thanks again,

Regards,
Matthew :buffer:


----------



## VIPER

Matthew, if it's the one I'm thinking of then then there are a few things that strike me about it: I think it would be very difficult to use and hold in a 'flat' way against the panel as it looks to have no proper handle and is more like a 'palm' sander in its design requiring you to hold onto the top of it, making the balance a little top heavy for manouvering around the surface (so you will tend to be 'tilting' it rather than sliding it across the paint and maintaining the pad's full contact with the surface). Secondly, the speed does seem a bit high with even the lowest setting being 9,000. And thirdly, it's a bit down on power compared to the Silverline's 450w, so could possibly have issues with bogging down under load. Sorry to dampen your post but I think for roughly the same cost, you'd be better off with the silverline, which is tried and tested now, although I do understand the temptation to just get a machine that you can buy locally, rather that sending for things online. 

Is it this one? (if so, then what I've written above applies)

http://www.triton.com.au/product.php?id=47


----------



## maersk

I've warned ye once, ye Yorkshire tyke! 

Keep yer hands aff me Clarke!! :buffer:


Although, I currently use a Bosch PEX270AE with a lot of success.  Most recently on a car park side swipe on my mates Merc ML. Most of that evidence has been erased. :buffer:


So far NO ONE has been able to tell me the orbit of a Megs 220 or PC7424.

You are right though the smaller the orbit the faster the rotation of the machine spindle - they effectively cancel each other out.

I have always said that the 220 is dramatically overpriced for what it is. PC 7424 are available in the states for $89. Which is what they SHOULD be given the number of £10 4 inch angle grinders there are out there!!!! (here)

Clarke have not got back to me yet but I rekon the orbit size will be around 4 mm in which case the speed range may be too slow to effectively break down modern diminishing, corrasion effect abrasives in modern polish.

PS you may be a tyke but I am an expat jock living in tyke land and do not spend lightly.


----------



## SixDegrees

AEG make a DA sander with switcable orbit.. 3.2mm and 6.4mm, cheapest I've seen it for is £85, but can't find the page / link.
*
So, whats the optimum orbit? * Most seem to be 2-3mm, which doesn't seem a lot, I'd have thought more orbit would be more like hand polishing and less is getting close to Rotary (which is bad for the untrained, ie me)


----------



## VIPER

SixDegrees said:


> AEG make a DA sander with switcable orbit.. 3.2mm and 6.4mm, cheapest I've seen it for is £85, but can't find the page / link.
> *
> So, whats the optimum orbit? * Most seem to be 2-3mm, which doesn't seem a lot, I'd have thought *more orbit would be more like hand polishing* and less is getting close to Rotary (which is bad for the untrained, ie me)


In theory yes it is. I haven't measured the Silverline, but visually it looks to be about 4mm to me. The bigger the offset, the less speed it needs to run at to get the pad to move over the surface at the same speed and therefore it will tend to break down and 'work' polishes quicker. Where a polish might take for eg. 10+ minutes to fully break down with the Silverline, a G220 might have it ready for buffing in 6 or 7 minutes (just average numbers to make the point). 
Even with an extremely small offset a DA machine still wouldn't work like a rotary because where a rotary is spinning at anything from 600 to a few thousand RPM, a DA will still only be turning at approx 60-120 RPM (just using the 1-2 revs per second average).


----------



## SixDegrees

Pit Viper said:


> In theory yes it is. I haven't measured the Silverline, but visually it looks to be about 4mm to me. The bigger the offset, the less speed it needs to run at to get the pad to move over the surface at the same speed and therefore it will tend to break down and 'work' polishes quicker. Where a polish might take for eg. 10+ minutes to fully break down with the Silverline, a G220 might have it ready for buffing in 6 or 7 minutes (just average numbers to make the point).
> Even with an extremely small offset a DA machine still wouldn't work like a rotary because where a rotary is spinning at anything from 600 to a few thousand RPM, a DA will still only be turning at approx 60-120 RPM (just using the 1-2 revs per second average).


???? why do all these Random Obital machines quote 4000-12,000 rpms then?

Sorry for all the Qs, but better to gte my knowledge sorted before I set out the car!!


----------



## vw-aj

was thinking of a g220, and well after reading this, i was contemplating buying the silverline or the clarke, then i was in the storage container at work the other day and found a black and decker random orbital sander, boss says it ok to borrow it, so am now waiting for some sonus pads to arive hopefully tomoro:buffer:. the i can give it a go with some srp. so all i can say is cheers to PV.:thumb:


----------



## Mattywatsit

Pit Viper said:


> Matthew, if it's the one I'm thinking of then then there are a few things that strike me about it: I think it would be very difficult to use and hold in a 'flat' way against the panel as it looks to have no proper handle and is more like a 'palm' sander in its design requiring you to hold onto the top of it, making the balance a little top heavy for manouvering around the surface (so you will tend to be 'tilting' it rather than sliding it across the paint and maintaining the pad's full contact with the surface). Secondly, the speed does seem a bit high with even the lowest setting being 9,000. And thirdly, it's a bit down on power compared to the Silverline's 450w, so could possibly have issues with bogging down under load. Sorry to dampen your post but I think for roughly the same cost, you'd be better off with the silverline, which is tried and tested now, although I do understand the temptation to just get a machine that you can buy locally, rather that sending for things online.
> 
> Is it this one? (if so, then what I've written above applies)
> 
> http://www.triton.com.au/product.php?id=47


That is the one yes, thanks for the points discussed above about that particular machine. The search continues :speechles , thanks again PV i shall take another look at the Silverline, still interested in that Clarke though.

Regards,
Matthew


----------



## bluenose

NeoPanther said:


> 1. 3dr
> 2. Step_7
> 3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 *PAID*
> 4. NeoPanther - £5 *PAID*
> 5. robrobc the tightwad- £0.50
> 6. reefer110
> 7. RJH
> 8. Bluenose £2 (Paid)
> 
> TOTAL: £8.50
> 
> Anyone else? Just add yourself to the list. :thumb:


Come on then, any more donations yet. PV's working overtime on this thread..... :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

SixDegrees said:


> ???? why do all these Random Obital machines quote 4000-12,000 rpms then?
> 
> Sorry for all the Qs, but better to gte my knowledge sorted before I set out the car!!


No problem, mate - that's what we're here for :thumb: 
The 4,000 - 12,000 (or variations on those figures for different machines), is the 'no load' speed. The 60-120 RPMs I mentioned is the average speed you could expect with a pad attached and with the proper pressure applied against the panel.


----------



## reefer110

Anyone had any issues with any of the machines mentioned in this thread cutting out ? I had to take the Mac back to B&Q tonight as it was doing this at random intervals. Hardly any pressure put on the machine and it didnt feel like it was hot


----------



## Reece

Evening guys

Just wondering if anyone could give me some insight on this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRADE-POLISHE...39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Thinking about purchasing it. Just wanted to make sure it would do the job first!

Cheers
Reece


----------



## Sharpy

its a rotary polisher so a completely different kettle of fish to random orbit polishers you have more chance of inflicting damage to your paint with one of these if you have never used a polisher before, but if you do get one id advise you get a scrap panel to practice on first


----------



## Reece

Cheers mate

As i new to all this, i was just wondering if someone could have a look through these for me a put me in the right direction please.

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/__rand...1Q5farrQ5A1Q51Q51Q5ftrksidQ5Am38QQ_trksidZm38

Cheers

Reece


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Reece said:


> Cheers mate
> 
> As i new to all this, i was just wondering if someone could have a look through these for me a put me in the right direction please.
> 
> Reece


If you don't know what you want, you want one of these:

http://www.transtools.co.uk/store/p...9670-hi-spec-125mm-random-orbital-sander.html

This whole thread is dedicated to that machine so there is loads of info for people new to machine polishing.


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper's Great Clarke DA Fund!

1. 3dr
2. Step_7
3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 PAID
4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
5. robrobc the tightwad- £0.50
6. reefer110
7. RJH
8. Bluenose £2 PAID
9. GeeJay £2 PAID

TOTAL: £10.50


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper - funny you should mention the VAT free day - I was a little jealous that I had never gotten an invite, but lo and behold on my doormat when I got home, was a VAT free invitation to machine mart!! 2nd Nov iirc!


----------



## VIPER

Reece said:


> Cheers mate
> 
> As i new to all this, i was just wondering if someone could have a look through these for me a put me in the right direction please.
> 
> http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/__rand...1Q5farrQ5A1Q51Q51Q5ftrksidQ5Am38QQ_trksidZm38
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Reece


Reece, please feel free to start a new thread for info about the rotary you mentioned earlier and any machines on the ebay link.

Can we keep this thread strictly to DA machines please as it's already one of the longest threads on the entire site and introducing other types of machine into the discussion at this stage will only make the thread even more difficult to navigate and understand for newbies to the site.

Many thanks

PV 

GeeJay, I've just missed my latest one, as it was about 2 weeks back, before the 'Clarke' machine fund started. I normally get one about every 2 months, so hopefully by the time the next one comes through the letterbox in late Nov or early Dec, then the fund might have got to the amount required and I can start to evaluate the new machine for DW


----------



## Reece

Very sorry Pit Viper, my apologies. 
Cheers Mazda3, just ordered one. Now what type of polishing pad would bes be used on this machine.

Cheers

Reece


----------



## mazda3_daveg

I use the 135mm 3M black waffle weave pads and find they are great. Never used anything else so can't comment. Read back about 10-20 pages and there should be lots of info where others discuss pads. Let us know how you get on with it.


----------



## VIPER

Reece said:


> Very sorry Pit Viper, my apologies.
> Cheers Mazda3, just ordered one. Now what type of polishing pad would bes be used on this machine.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Reece


No problem at all, Reece  it's just that this thread has grown into something way beyond what I think any of us were expecting and introducing rotary polishers into the mix at this stage would 'muddy the waters' somewhat and then it would all start to get too confusing for new visitors.

Anyway, as for the pad, personally I'd go for the Menzerna 'orange' polishing pad as it's the perfect size for the silverline. I'd advise you gave it a wash first before use (just in the sink with regular Fairy liquid) as it can feel a bit hard and harsh straight out of the packet. Like all pads though, it will soften up with use and washing.


----------



## VIPER

Dave's shout shout for the back 3M pads is a good one and these also suit this machine very well. Does, of course depend on what the level of correction your looking for and what car it is. If you've more serious work to do then the Menz pad followed by the 3M pad (with the appropriate polishes on each) would be best. If it's only very light correction, then you may manage with just the 3M. As I say, it's hard to say without knowing any details 

(don't know why this ended up on a seperate post? it was meant to go underneath that ^^^ one LOL!)


----------



## Reece

Hello mate

Just light swirl correction on my 2008 Fiat Grande Punto and a few light scratches so nothing mayor. I believe swirls were introdued by the dealer as they were evident on collection of the car and the car as been clean twice by them since.

Rece


----------



## VIPER

In the past italian car paint is one of the softest (I had a Seicento Schumacher before my current Puma as my daily driver, and this was quite soft as paints go).

So, on that basis (and assuming the newer Fiats still have quite soft paint), I'd say the 3M pad with something like Menzerna PO 106 Final Finish, or Poorboys SSR2 or Meguiars #80 Speed Glaze would be able to tackle light swirls on a Fiat :thumb:
(all the above three will finish down to a level ready for wax or sealant, so you don't need to go over them with a lighter cut product to 'refine')


----------



## Reece

Just trying to find some of these 3M pads on ebay and cant find any lol maybe its just what im typing in. I've had a look back and found the Orange Menzerna pads but not these black pads. There is a link to a seller but the item is no longer avalible. 

Any help appreciated

Reece


----------



## VIPER

Maybe someone else can help here with the 5" black 3M pad stockists? I don't seem to be able to find any either now?


----------



## GeeJay

Mr Singh got a box of 100 or so, and sold them on a group buy, and also on ebay. They're all gone now from what I believe, and they aren't made in 5" for general purchase. I doubt you'll find them.


----------



## VIPER

In that case I think we need to get our collective thinking caps on and source a 125-135mm pad suitable for finishing purposes (other than having to cut down larger 150mm pads). There must be some out there? 

EDIT: There are these from David G, but are an unknown for me as I've not used them personally:-

http://www.carwashnwax.com/

(in the _Edge Pads PC _section - pack of 3 5" pads)


----------



## Reece

http://www.autobritedirect.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?cPath=265_272&products_id=2022

Did find these but for 1 pad that seems a bit expensive?

Reece


----------



## VIPER

Reece said:


> http://www.autobritedirect.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?cPath=265_272&products_id=2022
> 
> Did find these but for 1 pad that seems a bit expensive?
> 
> Reece


Yeah, it is a bit really considering how much people have been buying them on here for recently (£4.50 each inc P&P).


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

I dont know anywhere that does the 5"3M pads, I still havent got round to using mine yet that i bought in the group buy.

Would be nice to source another one though as an alternative to the 3M ones


----------



## VIPER

I think the ones I said from David G @ carwashnwax are the only ones from any of DW's traders in the 5" size, but I get the feeling that they are an 'end of line' range or something and not a ongoing stock item?


----------



## footboy

Just so you know. There's a Clarke DA on ebay finishing at 9PM tonight. Currently at £22 plus £6 post.


----------



## yetizone

hi guys.

Firstly, many thanks to all concerned for this superb thread. It really has been an eye opener!

After being inspired by everyone's efforts I'm probably going to take the plunge and get a random orbital sander to use as a polisher - my first steps into this arena.

This morning I had a bit of time off work and popped over to B&Q and had a look at the Macalistair that has been mentioned as an alternative to the Silverline.

The thing is I found it quite bulky and heavy. I had a look around the display and there are other sanders which are smaller in size (100mm / 5"), have hook and loop attachment and offer variable speed settings - and seem much easier to handle.

I just wondered if these units made by DeWalt, Bosch and Ryobi are viable alternatives as they appeal to me due to them being easier to handle?

Any ideas if they could be in the running?

bosch

ryobi

dewalt


----------



## Step_7

footboy said:


> Just so you know. There's a Clarke DA on ebay finishing at 9PM tonight. Currently at £22 plus £6 post.


Yeah, I noticed that..... but that's just blown the chances of a bargain now..... :lol: - I'm "Bidder 1" BTW...... :lol:


----------



## footboy

I KNEW someone on here would be bidding. Sorry!

If you get it make sure to do a write up eh?


----------



## VIPER

footboy said:


> I KNEW someone on here would be bidding. Sorry!
> 
> If you get it make sure to do a write up eh?


Well if he does get it and does a review / write up, it kind of makes the whole group fund thing a bit pointless, and I'll end up having to send everyone their money back? I did kind of get the impression that the idea was for me to get the first one, evaluate it, do the review and write up on here, and then raffle off my Silverline to the contributers?

Anyway, best of luck with the ebay auction :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

yetizone said:


> hi guys.
> 
> Firstly, many thanks to all concerned for this superb thread. It really has been an eye opener!
> 
> After being inspired by everyone's efforts I'm probably going to take the plunge and get a random orbital sander to use as a polisher - my first steps into this arena.
> 
> This morning I had a bit of time off work and popped over to B&Q and had a look at the Macalistair that has been mentioned as an alternative to the Silverline.
> 
> The thing is I found it quite bulky and heavy. I had a look around the display and there are other sanders which are smaller in size (100mm / 5"), have hook and loop attachment and offer variable speed settings - and seem much easier to handle.
> 
> I just wondered if these units made by DeWalt, Bosch and Ryobi are viable alternatives as they appeal to me due to them being easier to handle?
> 
> Any ideas if they could be in the running?
> 
> bosch
> 
> ryobi
> 
> dewalt


Bosch and Ryobi - too fast minumum speeds and underpowered, and dewalt, just too expensive really (and also too fast and too underpowered). You're really better off with the Silverline as it's got more grunt than those a better operating speed, is half the price and is tried and tested by members on here. 

Another thing to consider is the ryobi and dewalt ones don't have proper handles and require you to hold them on the top (like you would with a 'palm' sander). This would make them quite top heavy and awkward to manouvre around the surface as it would be tricky to slide it keeping the pad flat against the panel, and I suspect it would want to 'tilt' therefore not maintaining the pad's full contact with the surface and meaning you could get irratic pad rotation speeds as a result.


----------



## yetizone

Thanks Pit Viper. Much appreciated, I just wondered if they were a viable option due to their slightly smaller physical size etc. I did notice the higher RPM minimum speed and wondered if that would be an issue.

Looks like its going to be the Silverline then...! :thumb:


----------



## Step_7

Pit Viper said:


> Well if he does get it and does a review / write up, it kind of makes the whole group fund thing a bit pointless, and I'll end up having to send everyone their money back? I did kind of get the impression that the idea was for me to get the first one, evaluate it, do the review and write up on here, and then raffle off my Silverline to the contributers?
> 
> Anyway, best of luck with the ebay auction :thumb:


Well, we have no Machine Mart shops over here and they want £15 to deliver one to my address  so I thought it was worth a punt! I'm at work when the auction finishes so probably won't be able to get on-line but we'll see how it goes. Still haven't had a chance to use the MAC one I bought properly yet - dammed weather and no garage..... :devil:


----------



## VIPER

yetizone said:


> Thanks Pit Viper. Much appreciated, I just wondered if they were a viable option due to their slightly smaller physical size etc. I did notice the higher RPM minimum speed and wondered if that would be an issue.
> 
> Looks like its going to be the Silverline then...! :thumb:


No worries, mate :thumb: It's the relative lack of power though as well that would cause as much problems as the high speeds. They only have around 250w (ish) each don't they so compared with the Silverline's 450w, I'd hazzard a guess that they would very easily bog down under pressure (I mean even the Silverline isn't immune to that with too big a pad fitted, so I'm thinking these would really struggle).

I do know where you're coming from though, as back before I bought my Silverline, I too went to B&Q to check out what they had, and came away with the same conclusion as you - some seemed too big and bulky and some, although nice to handle, didn't have the right specifications for the job. Hence my purchase of the Silverline, and the rest, as they say, is history (always wanted to say that LOL!)


----------



## VixMix

Pit Viper said:


> You got the rest of your kit yet and made a start?


Right, got my stuff (eventually - ParcelForce left it with my neighbour but didn't put a card through the door to let me know this)

Found some time - actually it wasn't mine, it was some of the companies time so I stole it.

Had a look at the Silverline - Know what you mean about the grease, when I checked the innards were clagging with it. Removed with Halfrauds Cycle Degreaser and a wee skoosh of WD40 and we're ready for the off...

Car wasn't mine either. My work colleague and friend - Rod - approached me last week, he's just got a car and it noticed the paintwork was rough, "would that clay stuff I use sort it?". We checked out the car in the garage. And this is what we found....



















:doublesho

Car was duly clayed:










And then last night we attacked it with a Menz Polishing Pad and Final finish, upping to Polishing Pad + Intensive Polish to get this finish...





































Well impressed! Unfortunately the Menz pad ripped in two while on the nearside doors (rest of car completed)  Looked similar to the failure Ziggy got. This happened whilst in action on the car, so defo not the fault of being taken off the hook and loop to roughly. Can't think why this has happened?

All told though - 5* for the Silverline. Next mod - longer power cord :speechles

Next car - Mine!


----------



## VIPER

Superb results there, Vikki :thumb: :thumb:

Not good about the pad failure though, can't understand why that happened, although as you say, it's not the first instance of it happening 

After trying the Menz final finish, and then deciding to up it to the Intensive polish to get the required correction, did you then go over it again with the final finish to refine or are those photos straight after the Intenive polish? 

Short cable is a PITA isn't it? I've extended mine already.


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> After trying the Menz final finish, and then deciding to up it to the Intensive polish to get the required correction, did you then go over it again with the final finish to refine or are those photos straight after the Intenive polish?
> 
> Short cable is a PITA isn't it? I've extended mine already.


Mine's being extended tonight too :thumb:

Vikki, after using the Menz range, i'd recommend finishnig with 85RD for a super glossy finish. It's one of my favourite finishing polishes, and leaves the paintwork ready for LSP :argie:


----------



## VIPER

GeeJay said:


> Mine's being extended tonight too :thumb:
> 
> Vikki, after using the Menz range, i'd recommend finishnig with 85RD for a super glossy finish. It's one of my favourite finishing polishes, and leaves the paintwork ready for LSP :argie:


That's why I asked  Menz IP on a Menz orange pad wouldn't finish down to what I'd call a perfect LSP ready state, I'd be going over it with PO85 RD Final finish (or PO106 FA if that's the one I had). Or any other finishing polish for that matter. I'd imagine she did, but just didn't write it in the post.


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

What do you reckon with SSR2 PV? Reading the descriptions of SSR2 and SSR2.5, it seems the later is designed to be a one stage job that will be LSP ready, but from what I can see, alot of people just use SSR2 and LSP on top of that, what are your opinions?


----------



## VIPER

Mother-Goose said:


> What do you reckon with SSR2 PV? Reading the descriptions of SSR2 and SSR2.5, it seems the later is designed to be a one stage job that will be LSP ready, but from what I can see, alot of people just use SSR2 and LSP on top of that, what are your opinions?


Well, out of all the machine polishes, SSR2 is the one I've got the most experience of and I've always got it to finish down to LSP ready level using the silverline. There are a few variables to throw into the mix, of course, like the pad being used, but generally speaking on a polishing or finishing pad, then SSR2 is a 'one step' product that will tackle light correction work and be ready for LSP. In this respect it's much like Megs #80 or Menz PO106 Final Finish.

SSR2.5, on the other hand I've always found needs going over with a finishing polish after as although it's got a bit more cutting power, it does leave a little 'micro marring' or hazing that needs going over.


----------



## VixMix

In reply to your question PV, The intensive polish on the Polishing pad was the final stage. I was expecting a further stage which is why I packed a finishing pad and the PO 85RD, but the paint work was super smooth and glossy under every light I shone on it and as time was against us by the time of the pad failure, Rod was happy with the finish there and went straight to LSP - being Meguiars Gold Class Liquid Wax.

Hopefully I'll get a little time on Rexy tonight. With the soft paint and mild swirls the plan is PO 85RD on a finishing pad (PO 106FF if that doesn't work). I hope one of those combos work, because I don't have a polishing pad anymore!  After that it'll be Red Moose Glaze and EX-P to finish.


----------



## reefer110

reefer110 said:


> Gonna drop Clarke Int'l an email to ask, will post back if I get a response


Response received today...

*"I don't have any official info but it measures approximately 4mm.
Regards
Steve Parks
Technical Advisor"*

As it turns out I picked up one the the Clarke machines earlier today, gonna give it a go and see how it compares to the other 'thing' I used the other day.....


----------



## VIPER

reefer110 said:


> Response received today...
> 
> *"I don't have any official info but it measures approximately 4mm.
> Regards
> Steve Parks
> Technical Advisor"*
> 
> As it turns out I picked up one the the Clarke machines earlier today, gonna give it a go and see how it compares to the other 'thing' I used the other day.....


Well, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it.

Kind of saved me a job then, and tbh. I've no idea how the fund stands as it's looking like a few will have tried them out before it's got to the level required for me to get one and test it . So, to those who have contributed so far, let me know by PM and I'll send you your contributions back


----------



## reefer110

To be honest I'd rather everyone kept the fund going as I understood it was for your efforts with this thread and the Silverline ?


----------



## VIPER

reefer110 said:


> To be honest I'd rather everyone kept the fund going as I understood it was for your efforts with this thread and the Silverline ?


Well so would I, and it also meant that someone got my Silverline for free as a prize (which they could either use themselves or give to a mate, or whatever). I just thought that if a few others have already got one and posted up their reviews of it before the fund has got to a sufficient level to allow me to get one, then it might be a bit of a wasted exercise? Don't get me wrong, I'm very grateful for it being set up in the first place and thanks once again to those who have donated to it, but I'd hate for people to be contributing and by the time it gets to the amount required, the Clarke machine in question will be a tried and tested unit on here.

Cheers PV


----------



## reefer110

Where the blimmin link so I can send some funds your way PV ?

Re the Clarke, I have a couple of pics but wont be able to post em up till later as I'm supposed to be working right now


----------



## robrobc

Pit Viper said:


> Well so would I, and it also meant that someone got my Silverline for free as a prize (which they could either use themselves or give to a mate, or whatever). I just thought that if a few others have already got one and posted up their reviews of it before the fund has got to a sufficient level to allow me to get one, then it might be a bit of a wasted exercise? Don't get me wrong, I'm very grateful for it being set up in the first place and thanks once again to those who have donated to it, but I'd hate for people to be contributing and by the time it gets to the amount required, the Clarke machine in question will be a tried and tested unit on here.
> 
> Cheers PV


PV.....I appreciate your sentiments..........I think that you are right and I guess that we will have a few Clarke machine owners posting their results on here. Lets not rule out the fund quite yet, I recommend we wait and see what gets posted in the next week or so. As ever, thanks for all your posts.


----------



## Hoody90

Hi, just signed up and have read through the whole of this thread and I'm just after some advice on which machine to go for, the silverline or MacAllister? 
I've read about the degreasing of the bearing and it seems easy enough but do they all seem to work fine after that?

Cheers


----------



## Step_7

I'm still quite happy to add to the fund - as above can someone PM me the paypal address to send the money too!


----------



## Step_7

Pit Viper's Great Clarke DA Fund!

1. 3dr
2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 PAID
4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
5. robrobc the tightwad- £0.50
6. reefer110
7. RJH
8. Bluenose £2 PAID
9. GeeJay £2 PAID

TOTAL: £13.00

As far as I know, this is the current state of the slush fund. 

Anyhow, the Clarke on eBay is rising beyond what I'm willing to pay so I'll have to await the outcome of the combined research minds of this thread and maybe pick one up next time I'm over the water.


----------



## RJH

Hi guys


I've bought a £2 ticket in the Silverline raffle. :thumb: I've enjoyed reading all the write ups from Pit Viper, that's worth £2 alone! Hopefully we can get enough for a comparison with the Clarke:buffer:

Richard

1. 3dr
2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 PAID
4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
5. robrobc the tightwad- £0.50
6. reefer110
7. RJH - £2 PAID
8. Bluenose £2 PAID
9. GeeJay £2 PAID

TOTAL: £14.00


----------



## footboy

Pit Viper said:


> Well if he does get it and does a review / write up, it kind of makes the whole group fund thing a bit pointless, and I'll end up having to send everyone their money back? I did kind of get the impression that the idea was for me to get the first one, evaluate it, do the review and write up on here, and then raffle off my Silverline to the contributers?
> 
> Anyway, best of luck with the ebay auction :thumb:


PV. You are the Mark Kermode of the DA world. Any reviews other than yours are just mere opinion. We await your judgement like hungry dogs.

£5 is comming your way tomorrow in regognition of all your hard work. (Please PM details)

I did a by hand correction in the summer so will be buying machine in near future for next time. Like the Clarke cos it looks like its easier to handle. But only if you say so master!


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Pit Viper - I think the main reason for the fund is to say thank you for letting all of us know about such a good bargain. The fact is you have saved a lot of people a lot of money - so a small contribution is nothing compared to what we saved. Not only this but you have posted countless times answering peoples questions and recommending polish/pads.

If the fund gets to £45 - which I am sure it will, we would all benefit hugely as you could give a *great* comparison between the two polishers. As far as I know the people who have bought one don't have the original £25 RO to compare it to.

So basically - let the fund continue without delay! Make sure you update the list of names if you donate so we can keep track of the total. Your polishing army awaits your review!


----------



## 3dr

1. 3dr £2 PAID
2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 PAID
4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
5. robrobc the tightwad- £0.50
6. reefer110
7. RJH - £2 PAID
8. Bluenose £2 PAID
9. GeeJay £2 PAID

TOTAL: £16.00


----------



## RJH

Just checked the maths - new total!!!

1. 3dr £2 PAID
2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 PAID
4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
5. robrobc the tightwad- £0.50
6. reefer110
7. RJH - £2 PAID
8. Bluenose £2 PAID
9. GeeJay £2 PAID

TOTAL: £17.50 

Richard


----------



## 3dr

just to clear a few things up from my point of view, the main reason for me kicking off the list was to show some gratitude towards the person who for many has probably helped many get into what seems to be an expensive step in detailing, DA polishing, and to help continue the development of this thread, so that it might inspire others to pick up the abyss that is "detailing". and while i realise that PV could probably just walk into MM and buy one of the "second generation PV DA's" at any time, i thought it would be a nice gesture and way for some of us on here to show support. I for one don't feel like the money is being given to a wasted cause, nor do i think the list should be stopped, but if PV no longer wants the burden of being the "leader" of this thread or feels that because he's not the first to get one so he feels he shouldn't get the money, can i just say that for me it's not about the cash, it's about the principle  :thumb: (i am being a very good boy and not running into MM to buy one until PV has given it the green light)


----------



## 3dr

oh and perhaps if a few of the tight fisted funkers who have read this thread and gone and bought a "1st gen PV DA" because of this thread and haven't contributed in anyway to this thread had given anything at all instead of FA, PV would of had one days ago! :lol: 9 contributors.......... WOW :lol:


----------



## yetizone

Hi all - I've finally caught up properly with this thread and have just ordered a Silverline - ready to dip my toe into the machine polishing waters...! :thumb: I'll be using it for correction of minor swirling and rds marks on tough VW clearcoat dark blue pearl and solid black, so just wanted to confirm that my choice of pads and polishes are appropriate...

I have my eye on the Menzerna Sample pack of polishes from CYC....

polish

The compound pad...

compounding

And the polishing pad....

polishing

Will I need a final finishing pad to take the corrected surface to LSP levels of finish? If I need a finishing pad, can someone please point me in the right dirtection?

Any pointers welcome...!


----------



## maersk

To quote a dragon, "I'm out". :buffer:


----------



## reefer110

Okay, here's the pics ....

Rear driver side door showing scratches from previous owner mishap..

















After using these products, Megs 83,80 & Menzerna Intensive with Elite Coolfoam Orange light cut & red finishing pads..

















I only spent about 15 mins on this, you can see one of the scratches still but it's a huge improvement. As for the machine, well I don't have huge exp of DA (or rotary for that matter!) but compared to the 'Mac' from B&Q this performs much better. I also had a quick go on the bonnet and this was removing marks the 'Mac' could not..all with the same pad & polish combo's.

The build quality feels good, nice weight and comfortable but bear in mind the Clarke has no side handle. Also no random cutting out after very little use 

So, I'm pretty happy with the little test so far. Apologies for jumping the gun on this but needs must. I've been trawling threads for what seems like forever researching this and that and seeing as I went past the Edmonton store earlier I couldn't pass the opportunity up!

:buffer::thumb:


----------



## 3dr

any pics of the machine? :argie: btw is that an A2?


----------



## reefer110

Yea it's an A2, sorry no pics of machine so far...what a plonker, I forgot


----------



## robrobc

So what have I got to do to get PV's paypal address.........naked handstands :lol:..........................come on you all give me the bl***y address


----------



## reefer110

Pics as requested...


----------



## Reece

Evening chaps. I order the polisher from Transtools earlier today and i was just wondering if the 5 Inch spot pads from carwashNwax would fit this?

Cheers

Reece


----------



## 3dr

reefer110 said:


> Pics as requested...


:thumb: :argie: do you think the dust extraction bit could be taken off?


----------



## robrobc

do you think the dust extraction bit could be taken off?


with a saw maybe ????


----------



## robrobc

*I am so not tight*

Just to confirm £1 sent to PV


----------



## mazda3_daveg

1. 3dr £2 PAID
2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 PAID
4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
5. robrobc the tightwad- £0.50
6. reefer110
7. RJH - £2 PAID
8. Bluenose £2 PAID
9. GeeJay £2 PAID
10. robrobc £1 PAID

TOTAL: £18.50


----------



## VIPER

3dr said:


> just to clear a few things up from my point of view, the main reason for me kicking off the list was to show some gratitude towards the person who for many has probably helped many get into what seems to be an expensive step in detailing, DA polishing, and to help continue the development of this thread, so that it might inspire others to pick up the abyss that is "detailing". and while i realise that PV could probably just walk into MM and buy one of the "second generation PV DA's" at any time, i thought it would be a nice gesture and way for some of us on here to show support. I for one don't feel like the money is being given to a wasted cause, nor do i think the list should be stopped, but if PV no longer wants the burden of being the "leader" of this thread or feels that because he's not the first to get one so he feels he shouldn't get the money, can i just say that for me it's not about the cash, it's about the principle  :thumb: (i am being a very good boy and not running into MM to buy one until PV has given it the green light)


Thanks for that, mate - means a lot :thumb:

And to everyone else as well - a genuine thankyou for the both the contributions and and comments - cheers guys :thumb:


----------



## GeeJay

WOW!!! that clarke certainly looks sweet! Nice and small/light!
Is the backing plate interchangeable at all?


----------



## VIPER

It does look smaller than I imagined, I agree (which is good). I can't see the backing plate being interchangable though, although it would be great if it did :thumb:

I'd guess the dust extraction plastic part would come off once the backing plate was removed though?


----------



## GeeJay

Yeah, I just saw the pictures again and noticed it was screwed in a similar fashion to the Silverline. A shame, but not that big a deal.


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

Pit Viper said:


> Well, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it.
> 
> Kind of saved me a job then, and tbh. I've no idea how the fund stands as it's looking like a few will have tried them out before it's got to the level required for me to get one and test it . So, to those who have contributed so far, let me know by PM and I'll send you your contributions back


LOL I'll tell you why that is, it's because the Clarke one looks like a beast hehe

Thanks for the tip on the SSR2, it's odd isn't it, the 2.5 is designed to be a one step product, yet the SSR2 seems to be the one that actually manages it. I've seen a couple of people get the SSR2 down to LSP ready so I think I'm going to go down that route too.


----------



## robrobc

*Polisher Porn*

Right.........I am starting to panic now.....I soooooo want one of those Clarke machines but I am waiting for the Viper Report  but what the hell happens when that report is posted.........will there be a buying frenzy as we all order at once....:lol:....should I order now and beat the rush?:doublesho

Decisions, decisions..............


----------



## robrobc

What if Machine Mart run out????? oooooo the agony of choice :lol::lol:


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

Im tempted to go get one, i bought a small orbital sander from B&Q, due to work and weather i still havent used it, quite tempted to take it back and then go get this one instead


----------



## Ziggy122

The Clarke one does look pretty darn mean!!

I must admit, letting the silverline polish finally spin up (waiting for a wet look before stepping up the speed) its clear to see this machine could do the task IF i had a polishing pad  Not a finishing pad rofl

But this new one... a pure DA  Tis tempting.... but i've got a silverline now 

Ziggy


----------



## bluenose

The Silverline is my first step into machine polishing and I'm determined to stick with it until I'm darn good with it. You could end up waiting and waiting for the something bigger and better to come along. Be happy with what you have if you've made a purchase already and get out and practice :buffer: 

That said, it'll be interesting to see how the clarke measures up for future reference :wall:


----------



## robrobc

bluenose said:


> The Silverline is my first step into machine polishing and I'm determined to stick with it until I'm darn good with it. You could end up waiting and waiting for the something bigger and better to come along. Be happy with what you have if you've made a purchase already and get out and practice :buffer:
> 
> That said, it'll be interesting to see how the clarke measures up for future reference :wall:


F**k that..:lol::lol::lol: I don't need it, I WANT it and that makes all the difference


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

i think the clarke one may be more beneficial as it restricted to 7000 rpm max, so even on top speed your not going to do any harm, unsure if thats the case with the smaller snaders that go upto 12000 rpm.

also i should imagin the clarke one is probably easier to handle due to its shape, the smaller sanders are compact but the unit is quite high if you get what i mean.

Im definatley tempted to ake my B&Q one back as i have not used it and get the Clarke one, though overall im not sure if it will make alot of difference to the paintwork in the long run as in theory they are the same item in different clothing


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

The clarke is closer to what the G220 is so in that respect it's probably better.


----------



## GeeJay

Clean-my-sxi said:


> Im definatley tempted to ake my B&Q one back as i have not used it and get the Clarke one, though overall im not sure if it will make alot of difference to the paintwork in the long run as in theory they are the same item in different clothing


I'm inclined to agree here. At the end of the day, the level of cut you are gonig to achieve is down to the pad/polish combo you will be using.
The only two variables that will affect the performance using the same pads/polishes are throw (silverline is about 4mm, and clarke is stated at 4mm?) and the pressure you can achieve while still getting 1-2 rotations per second.
With my silverline, I can achieve 1-2 revolutions per second under a decent pressure, so I'm happy.

So really, the main benefit I can see in the Clarke is ergonomics.


----------



## yetizone

Can the Clarke backing plate be changed for a smaller one as per the G220 / Porter Cable?


----------



## GeeJay

yetizone said:


> Can the Clarke backing plate be changed for a smaller one as per the G220 / Porter Cable?


Not by the looks. It's mounted with 4 screws, just like the silverline.


----------



## yetizone

I know its more expensive than the Clarke but I think the pending Serious Performance machine could be the one to go for, as long term this should be more flexible with the interchangeable backing plates?...

Serious-Performance

I've just committed to the cheap Silverline and when or if upgrading I'll certainly consider this SP machine.

Its great for those new to machine polishing that the choice seems to be expanding though and its not going to cost a small fortune to get started.

:thumb:


----------



## VIPER

Been out and away from the PC (that's the computer, not a Porter Cable btw. I'm not selling you guys out and jumping on the bandwagon of only _'real detailing'_ machines are good enough, now we've come this far :lol 
So, I'm just catching up on all the posts since this morning . 
As I see it the Clarke has 2 distinct advantages over the other machines we've all been using - the power of the motor, which should give improved torque and therefore less likely to bog down under polishing pressure loads, and the second one is it's ability to take the 150mm pads (which gives much wider choice as the 125mm ones are a bit limited in availability) and still be able to handle them and maintain the spinning ability, which is also helped by the 750w motor of course.

In case I haven't thanked everyone individually, I'll take this oppertunity to say a big 'THANKS' :thumb: :thumb: to all those who have contributed so far - very much appreciated


----------



## VIPER

yetizone said:


> I know its more expensive than the Clarke but I think the pending Serious Performance machine could be the one to go for, as long term this should be more flexible with the interchangeable backing plates?...
> 
> Serious-Performance
> 
> I've just committed to the cheap Silverline and when or if upgrading I'll certainly consider this SP machine.
> 
> Its great for those new to machine polishing that the choice seems to be expanding though and its not going to cost a small fortune to get started.
> 
> :thumb:


Looks a nice bit of kit that :thumb: Very similar, visually at least to a PC7424 to my eyes. I can't see it ending up much under £100 though, so when the cost is escallating towards 3 figures, you're almost into PC/UDM/G220 territory anyway. The whole idea behind this thread (and my initial purchase of the Silverline, way before this thread even started), was to investigate if 'non detailing' DA machines could be used as polishers for a fraction of the cost. When 'alternative' machines are starting to knock on the door of the established mainstream models in terms of price, then surely the point is lost?

As I said, still looks a nice machine, and has the interchangable backing plate, which is a nice thing to have, but personally I wouldn't want to spending around £100 on a machine polisher, because if I did, then we might not be where we are now (unless someone else would have taken the initiative to try the Silverline, which they might well have done, who knows?)


----------



## yetizone

Tis a fair point well put regarding the whole ethos behind using the Silverline. 

I agree completely - that's why ordered one last night!

I just saw the SP machine in another thread and thought it may raise an eyebrow if people had gotten so far with the SL and wanted to upgrade to a 'better' machine!


----------



## VIPER

yetizone said:


> Tis a fair point well put regarding the whole ethos behind using the Silverline.
> 
> I agree completely - that's why ordered one last night!
> 
> I just saw the SP machine in another thread and thought it may raise an eyebrow if people had gotten so far with the SL and wanted to upgrade to a 'better' machine!


Agreed, mate - hopefully that 'better' machine and the one that is one step up, is going to end up being the Clarke contractor one, and still keeping the price to under £50 

All the best with your new Silverline :thumb: any questions don't hesitate to PM me if you don't want to post on the thread


----------



## Gareth2665

Just payed my contribution to a well deserved cause.

1. 3dr £2 PAID
2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 PAID
4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
5. robrobc the tightwad- £0.50
6. reefer110
7. RJH - £2 PAID
8. Bluenose £2 PAID
9. GeeJay £2 PAID
10. robrobc £1 PAID
11. gareth2665 £2.00 PAID

TOTAL: £20.50


----------



## VixMix

I think for me, the next step will be a rotary (and probably the Silverline orange one lol). That way I'll have two machines which will allow me plenty scope to do what I need to with the small amount of cars I'll be likely to do.

I continue to be impressed with the Silverline RO - which is doing what I want it to do and it only cost me £20. The cost of the Megs was prohibitive for me and the reason I never "dipped my toes" in paint correction sooner.

Personally I think that the Silverline (and similar budget range sanders) are a good way for total newbies to get started and make their own judgement as to where to go on from there.

It is clear that the doorway has been opened and horizons are being widened. People will be finding new products that may offer alternate entrances into paint correction. As long as we have people on here who are curious and scrappies have panels to practice on....

Pit Viper - PM me your details so I can add to the pot...


----------



## robrobc

Gareth2665 said:


> Just payed my contribution to a well deserved cause.
> 
> 1. 3dr £2 PAID
> 2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
> 3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 PAID
> 4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
> 5. robrobc the tightwad- £0.50
> 6. reefer110
> 7. RJH - £2 PAID
> 8. Bluenose £2 PAID
> 9. GeeJay £2 PAID
> 10. robrobc £1 PAID
> 11. gareth2665 £2.00 PAID
> 
> TOTAL: £20.50


Ok OK less of the tightwad ..............I have paid now


----------



## VIPER

robrobc said:


> Ok OK less of the tightwad ..............I have paid now


:lol: Only just seen that - who put that? (wasn't me - I've had no input to the posts with this list on )


----------



## VixMix

I noticed the list was a little out of date. I think the "tightwad" comment was a much earlier post when you said you'd donate 50p  but when you donated the pound, the earlier entry was never deleted.

NEW LIST - showing paid up folks only.

1. 3dr £2 PAID
2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 PAID
4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
5. RJH - £2 PAID
6. Bluenose £2 PAID
7. GeeJay £2 PAID
8. robrobc £1 PAID
9. gareth2665 £2.00 PAID
10. Vixmix £3 PAID

*TOTAL: £23.00*


----------



## yetizone

Hey guys, how do I contribute?


----------



## VIPER

yetizone said:


> Hey guys, how do I contribute?


PM on it's way, mate :thumb:


----------



## yetizone

A very well deserved contribution is winging its way to you. 

Many thanks for all your help. :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

yetizone said:


> A very well deserved contribution is winging its way to you.
> 
> Many thanks for all your help. :thumb:


My pleasure, and thanks very much for the contribution - don't forget to add your name to the list above ^^ :thumb:


----------



## yetizone

List at 8pm. 22/10/2008

NEW LIST - showing paid up folks only.

1. 3dr £2 PAID
2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 PAID
4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
5. RJH - £2 PAID
6. Bluenose £2 PAID
7. GeeJay £2 PAID
8. robrobc £1 PAID
9. gareth2665 £2.00 PAID
10. Vixmix £3 PAID
11. Yetizone £3 PAID

*TOTAL: £26.00*


----------



## Hair Bear

Sorry guys, bought a SL way back earlier in this thread after PV's tips and I've lost touch. What's the contribution thing all about?


----------



## Ziggy122

Hair Bear said:


> Sorry guys, bought a SL way back earlier in this thread after PV's tips and I've lost touch. What's the contribution thing all about?


They have found a Kick ass DA sander, is a 450w and looks abit more like an ankle grinder 
My clarke, as a tribute for PV's constant and true help there is a fund for him to get 1 of these to test 

Ziggy


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

£26.00 for Pit Viper, :doublesho

Good thing i started this thread or he would of kept the info to his self.

Wheres my thanks :wave:


:lol:


----------



## mattyb95

Clean-my-sxi said:


> £26.00 for Pit Viper, :doublesho
> 
> Good thing i started this thread or he would of kept the info to his self.
> 
> Wheres my thanks :wave:
> 
> :lol:


Thanks


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

Thats more like it , wheres my pound

:lol:

Didnt think this thread would go for so long


----------



## VIPER

Clean-my-sxi said:


> £26.00 for Pit Viper, :doublesho
> 
> Good thing i started this thread or he would of kept the info to his self.
> 
> Wheres my thanks :wave:
> 
> :lol:


THANKS!!! :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:

I wouldn't have kept my little discovery to myself, I _would have_ posted my results on here about my initial thoughts on the Silverline back before this thread started, but I couldn't find time between answering the eleventy squillion PMs from you (and others) quizzing me about it - remember? :lol: :lol:

Only joking, matey  You do deserve credit for starting this thread, of course :thumb:

Oh, and the Clarke DA machine is 750w not 450w as Ziggy stated earlier, the Silverline is 450w


----------



## GeeJay

Maybe you should hold out for £89 for the Kestrel DA being sold by SP?


----------



## yetizone

GeeJay said:


> Maybe you should hold out for £89 for the Kestrel DA being sold by SP?


Interesting point - oooh the temptation..!


----------



## robrobc

GeeJay said:


> Maybe you should hold out for £89 for the Kestrel DA being sold by SP?


No I don't think so..................I cannot afford that so even if it gets a stunning PV review I would be b******sed on price.


----------



## VIPER

Hmmm, personally I think at £89 it's priced itself out of the whole idea behind this DW 'cult' we've created for alternative DA machines at a fraction of the cost of the mainstream models. I think anything sub £50 is okay, which obviously just includes the Clarke contractor. 

Don't get me wrong, the one Alex is selling looks a great buy and is, knowing him, a great bit of kit that will have been well researched :thumb:


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

I agree anything over £50 is just a price im not willing to pay out, as i wont use it enough and in all honesty i was happy enough with the condition of my paint, its only because there is a cheap way to correct minor flaws that i thought about doing it.

I may go for that clarke one as there is a machine mart just down the road to me and my mate and BQ said i can take back my small sander if i want for a refund.


----------



## maersk

Got my vat free offer- three days after buying the Contactor.

Bum.


Still more toys to buy, i'm sure.


----------



## VIPER

1. 3dr £2 PAID
2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 PAID
4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
5. RJH - £2 PAID
6. Bluenose £2 PAID
7. GeeJay £2 PAID
8. robrobc £1 PAID
9. gareth2665 £2.00 PAID
10. Vixmix £3 PAID
11. Yetizone £3 PAID
12. footboy £5

TOTAL: £26.00 :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

maersk said:


> Got my vat free offer- three days after buying the Contactor.
> 
> Bum.
> 
> Still more toys to buy, i'm sure.


What date does it show for the VAT free day? My last one was for about 3 weeks back, so I'm not expecting another for about a month. I don't know if each individual store chooses its own days, or if it's the same day nationwide for all stores? Any info?


----------



## NeoPanther

Pit Viper said:


> :lol: Only just seen that - who put that? (wasn't me - I've had no input to the posts with this list on )


It was me.  :wave:

It was only a little poke at Rob for the 50p, but since he's donated £1 I'll take it back!


----------



## VIPER

:lol: :lol: I think he took it with the humour it was intended, mate  - the list's been updated by someone else now anyway :thumb:


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

Pit Viper said:


> Hmmm, personally I think at £89 it's priced itself out of the whole idea behind this DW 'cult' we've created for alternative DA machines at a fraction of the cost of the mainstream models. I think anything sub £50 is okay, which obviously just includes the Clarke contractor.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the one Alex is selling looks a great buy and is, knowing him, a great bit of kit that will have been well researched :thumb:


I think this is the critical point. We're not pro-detailers, we just want our cars to look good, but on a budget. Getting a DA for under £50 is the aim I think.

It's all about getting the best results with the least money spent, and to this end, the Clarke seems like the top dog (pending review) but the silverine is great for certain things, like SRP for instance, it makes spreading it so much quicker (as SRP isn't something that you really work).

I think, by the end of this thread, we will have enough to have a recommended list of kit and products for the home detailer - A completely skint guide to detaling kit.


----------



## VIPER

Agreed :thumb: I know for a fact that after _many_ years of trying to remove minor swirling by hand with either moderate or no success (been at this car detailing for over 12 years, so long before DW ), the Silverline is capable of doing things that hand polishing simply can't, and whilst there is a limit to what it can do in comparison to the much more expensive machines, it's still the single best 'detailing' item I've ever bought :thumb:


----------



## bluenose

Pit Viper said:


> Agreed :thumb: I know for a fact that after _many_ years of trying to remove minor swirling by hand with either moderate or no success (been at this car detailing for over 12 years, so long before DW ), the Silverline is capable of doing things that hand polishing simply can't, and *whilst there is a limit to what it can do in comparison to the much more expensive machines*, it's still the single best 'detailing' item I've ever bought :thumb:


Do you think there are real limits with what can be achieved with the Silverline over the more expensive dedicated DA machines? The results I've seen make me wonder how much more could be achieved..... Given that I'm new to machine polishing that may be a fairly naive statement btw!


----------



## VIPER

bluenose said:


> Do you think there are real limits with what can be achieved with the Silverline over the more expensive dedicated DA machines? The results I've seen make me wonder how much more could be achieved..... Given that I'm new to machine polishing that may be a fairly naive statement btw!


My only reasoning with my statement there is just with the relatively small offset of these machines. If really heavy swirling was needing correction, the more abrasive polishes and compounds required to do the job that units with much bigger random offsets can manage to break down properly due to the greater movement and action of the pad, might not get sufficiently worked and broken down with the 'lesser' machines. I say 'might' as there will always be an exception to the rule and on some paint types with the right polish & pad combo, it could well be capable, but in most cases I think there's a limit to how bad the paintwork correction can get before machines like the Silverline would begin to struggle.

On the other hand, with medium and light swirling, I'd say there wouldn't be much between them in the resulting finish, but the machines like the G220 and PC etc. would just achieve them in a quicker time as their actions break down the polishes quicker.


----------



## mazda3_daveg

I'm sure this has been mentioned - but how long are people finding it takes to break their polishes down? I had a try with some Menz 106FF last weekend and after working for about 5 minutes it didn't buff off with a MF easily. I'm guessing it needs more like 10 minutes per section?


----------



## VIPER

I've found that on average it takes anything from 8-12 minutes per section with the Silverline, depending on the polish and the pad. A G220 or PC would typically cut that time by about 25% I'd say. There are so many variables involved though, there's no hard and fast rule. You can normally get to see and 'feel' when it's been worked enough and further machining won't achieve anything extra.

106 final finish would need closer to the 10 minutes with these machines, you're quite right. In addition to the difficulty wiping off the residue, did you get an LED or halogen lamp onto the paint? as I'm almost sure you will have found a bit of hazing / micro marring and the reflection would have been less than sharp as the polish wouldn't have been fully broken down enough to give a crystal clear reflection? It would probably have removed most if not all of the swirls after about 5 minutes but, as I said, not been sufficiently worked enough to get it LSP ready.


----------



## maersk

Just caught up. The Vat free offer is for my numbered card from now until 8th November.

I'll have to buy something else.

MORE money..........................................


----------



## VIPER

I've emailed MM and asked them when my store is going to have its next one, not heard back yet though.


----------



## maersk

I used my Bosch Pex 270 to remove quite deep scratches from a Merc. on Friday (using Scratch X as I had run out of Menz.) in about 10 mins and three or four passes. Pex has 6mm orbit and was used on speed 3/4 out of 6 so prob. about 7k orbits per.:buffer::buffer::buffer:


----------



## robrobc

NeoPanther said:


> It was me.  :wave:
> 
> It was only a little poke at Rob for the 50p, but since he's donated £1 I'll take it back!


thanks :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:


----------



## robrobc

Pit Viper said:


> 1. 3dr £2 PAID
> 2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
> 3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 PAID
> 4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
> 5. RJH - £2 PAID
> 6. Bluenose £2 PAID
> 7. GeeJay £2 PAID
> 8. robrobc £1 PAID
> 9. gareth2665 £2.00 PAID
> 10. Vixmix £3 PAID
> 11. Yetizone £3 PAID
> 12. footboy £5
> 
> TOTAL: £26.00 :thumb:


I may be being a little thick here but I make this £31.00. 
I am as always prepared to be wrong


----------



## footboy

Pit Viper said:


> 1. 3dr £2 PAID
> 2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
> 3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 PAID
> 4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
> 5. RJH - £2 PAID
> 6. Bluenose £2 PAID
> 7. GeeJay £2 PAID
> 8. robrobc £1 PAID
> 9. gareth2665 £2.00 PAID
> 10. Vixmix £3 PAID
> 11. Yetizone £3 PAID
> 12. footboy £5 PAID
> 
> TOTAL: £31.00 :thumb:


Your welcome


----------



## reefer110

1. 3dr £2 PAID
2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 PAID
4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
5. RJH - £2 PAID
6. Bluenose £2 PAID
7. GeeJay £2 PAID
8. robrobc £1 PAID
9. gareth2665 £2.00 PAID
10. Vixmix £3 PAID
11. Yetizone £3 PAID
12. footboy £5 PAID
13 Reefer110 £2 PAID

TOTAL £33.00


----------



## maersk

Having played with my new Clarke machine today :buffer: and having researched its VERY close relative in Washington state USA, I reckon I can state that this is a sound, cheap, entry level machine which will polish to a high standard, :thumb: certainly exceeding the standard of my current Bosch PEX 270 - probably due to the greater orbit diameter (8mm) and the ability to drive a 6 inch pad through the 750 watt motor.
Wet sanding marks and some RDS went with little problem using Scratch X - I know, not PC, but it works.
You cannot fit a smaller pad - I don't see that as a problem - but replacements are available. The box contains spare brushes and the dust extraction system effectively pulls air through the pad keeping the pad cooler than it would be without. Not that heat is a big problem with DA machines.
The bale handle IS NOT adjustable, which is unfortunate as I would like to have the handle more to the front, but hey you can't have everything for £50!......................................... Can you?


Wish I had shares in Machine Mart............................. 

Oh, .......... :speechles

Shares................... :devil:

Perhaps not. 

:wave: :driver:


I am sure PV  will be able to give it a much more thorough review and comparison in due course as he has more experience of the alternative machines discussed in this thread. I am simply pleased that my initial hunch about this particular product appears to stand up to scrutiny - for me anyway. 
I can only compare it with my Bosch (the instructions say it can be used as a polisher) which was quite expensive and was bought specifically as a sander. I have no experience of the Silverline machine.


----------



## Shiny

What pads will you need to use with the Clarke one, as i guess it's got a 6" plate rather than the 5" plate on the Silverline one?


----------



## reefer110

Shiny said:


> What pads will you need to use with the Clarke one, as i guess it's got a 6" plate rather than the 5" plate on the Silverline one?


I'm using Elite 150mm pads.


----------



## Shiny

I guess they fit OK then? I was just reading up on some 150mm pads and they say suitable for a 5" plate. I guess this is so they overhand the edge of the plate?


----------



## maersk

Lake Country (6.5 inch) and Sonus DAS (6 inch) for me. :thumb:

They go to the edge of the plate. The Menz. ones leave an overhang. Not really a problem as long as you take account of it!


----------



## reefer110

I guess so, the 150mm pads fit nice and snug to the edge of the backing plate.


----------



## bidderman1969

how much fella? thats 5" pad yes?


----------



## VIPER

Not far to go now for the fund :thumb: - thanks so much for everyone's contribution I've emailed Machine Mart to ask then when their next VAT free day is to get it at the £44 rather than the £52, but no reply yet.

I just hope my Silverline doesn't pack up when I'm doing the test between the 2 machines seeing as I'm giving it away (probaby shouldn't have said that as it's tempting fate :wall: :lol: :lol. I'm sure it will be fine as it's never missed a beat all the time I've had it and I've also never had to 'modify' it either to get it to perform.


----------



## NeoPanther

Pit Viper said:


> Not far to go now for the fund :thumb: - thanks so much for everyone's contribution I've emailed Machine Mart to ask then when their next VAT free day is to get it at the £44 rather than the £52, but no reply yet.
> 
> I just hope my Silverline doesn't pack up when I'm doing the test between the 2 machines seeing as I'm giving it away (probaby shouldn't have said that as it's tempting fate :wall: :lol: :lol. I'm sure it will be fine as it's never missed a beat all the time I've had it and I've also never had to 'modify' it either to get it to perform.


Yeah yeah. We all know you'll still keep the silverline and send the lucky one this instead.  :lol:


----------



## VIPER

^^^ :lol: :lol: busted!!  

(actually a decent bit of kit that, if you can live with the garish colours :lol


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

Is this the longest thread in detailing world history


----------



## yetizone

Well, I had a nice surprise this morning as the courier came with both Sander and the starter kit from Tim at Clean Your Car...!

The annoying thing is it may be a couple of weeks before I get the time to have a go properly with it 

As soon as I've had a polishing session I'll report back with the experience.

PV - Looking forward to hearing about the Clarke...! :thumb:

++ Forgot - first impressions are that's its pretty well made for the modest asking price and its actually much quieter in operation than I originally anticipated. I think I'll probably have a look at the grease volume before I start as well, just in case its overloaded with the stuff ++

For the money its certainly great value for money.


----------



## VIPER

Clean-my-sxi said:


> Is this the longest thread in detailing world history


:lol: Not quite - MD's Monaco thread is bigger (but then it's been going a lot longer).



yetizone said:


> Well, I had a nice surprise this morning as the courier came with both Sander and the starter kit from Tim at Clean Your Car...!
> 
> The annoying thing is it may be a couple of weeks before I get the time to have a go properly with it
> 
> As soon as I've had a polishing session I'll report back with the experience.
> 
> PV - Looking forward to hearing about the Clarke...! :thumb:


^^^ Nice collection of kit you have there :thumb: :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

Found these shots on one of my SD cards that I had trouble uploading to the PC at the time, but managed to do it tonight, so I thought I'd just post them up. We've long since acknowledged that the Silverline DA is capable of light to medium correction, but I wanted to get them on here seeing as I couldn't manage it before.

This is SSR2 on a Serious Performance 'red' finishing pad, worked for about 10 minutes.

Before:-










After:-


----------



## reefer110

Pit Viper said:


> :lol: Not quite - MD's Monaco thread is bigger (but then it's been going a lot longer).
> 
> Which thread is this then ...not seen it yet ?


----------



## VIPER

reefer110 said:


> Pit Viper said:
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: Not quite - MD's Monaco thread is bigger (but then it's been going a lot longer).
> 
> Which thread is this then ...not seen it yet ?
> 
> 
> 
> Here:-
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=54813
> 
> (all the best getting through it  :lol
Click to expand...


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Very nice shots there - very good demonstration that the Silverline is good for 95% of the correction work a home detailer would ever want.


----------



## VIPER

mazda3_daveg said:


> Very nice shots there - very good demonstration that the Silverline is good for 95% of the correction work a home detailer would ever want.


So what you saying - I've missed 5%?? I can assure you, _sir_, that the car is 100% swirl free, even if the camera isn't the best at showing it.

:lol: Only, messing, Dave I know what you mean - the swirls there are only light and the Silverline is easily capable of removing them, but on really heavily swirled cars (the 5%) then it would probably struggle to get them all removed.


----------



## gug54321

surely that would be down to the polish/head combo or even consider a wet flat should knock on the heads of the other 5% though!


----------



## VIPER

gug54321 said:


> surely that would be down to the polish/head combo or even consider a wet flat should knock on the heads of the other 5% though!


I agree, that would be a way around tackling more severe swirling if someone only had this machine, but I guess that the vast majority of members on this thread who've bought one, wouldn't feel comfortable in attempting that. 
The whole idea with these is that it's capable of light to medium correction on most paint types for a very small cost. It does have it's limits, regardless of the pad/polish combo because of it's relatively small offset and attempting to correct severe swirling & RDSs with an aggressive cutting pad and one of the more abrasive polishes, this machine isn't capable of working that combo and breaking it down enough. It's got it's limits but in 9/10 cases it will be able to acheive what the user is expecting and for £20, you can't really go wrong  The Clarke contractor model, which is the next rung up the ladder and has a bigger offset and more powerful motor should, in theory, be able to do anything a G220 or PC can do


----------



## maersk

I concur with Pit on this. I attacked my sun faded tool chest yesterday with a basic Menz. polishing pad and a variety of Menz. polishes and can confirm that the Clarke quite happily worked the polish and broke it down completely and left a cracking finish on the chest in very little time. The paint is a stoved enamel, which I think is harder than most automotive finishes.

Cleaning the red off the pad afterwards was a pain though. 

Sorry, no pix.

:wave:


----------



## 3dr

maersk said:


> Sorry, no pix.


Bloody time waster.


----------



## gug54321

Pit Viper said:


> I agree, that would be a way around tackling more severe swirling if someone only had this machine, but I guess that the vast majority of members on this thread who've bought one, wouldn't feel comfortable in attempting that.
> The whole idea with these is that it's capable of light to medium correction on most paint types for a very small cost. It does have it's limits, regardless of the pad/polish combo because of it's relatively small offset and attempting to correct severe swirling & RDSs with an aggressive cutting pad and one of the more abrasive polishes, this machine isn't capable of working that combo and breaking it down enough. It's got it's limits but in 9/10 cases it will be able to acheive what the user is expecting and for £20, you can't really go wrong  The Clarke contractor model, which is the next rung up the ladder and has a bigger offset and more powerful motor should, in theory, be able to do anything a G220 or PC can do


i know where your coming from now, correcting deeper severe scratch might be a problem for them but wouldnt a wet flat get you nearly there?


----------



## maersk

Too obsessed with the test 3dr!


----------



## VIPER

Totally shameless bump :thumb: 

1. 3dr £2 PAID
2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 PAID
4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
5. RJH - £2 PAID
6. Bluenose £2 PAID
7. GeeJay £2 PAID
8. robrobc £1 PAID
9. gareth2665 £2.00 PAID
10. Vixmix £3 PAID
11. Yetizone £3 PAID
12. footboy £5 PAID
13 Reefer110 £2 PAID

TOTAL £33.00


----------



## Hoody90

I have just ordered a silverline DA from amazon (back to £20 now - was £26 in the week) and am wondering where is the cheapest place for pads for it? 
It's my first machine polisher as I've never want to spend the money on a G220/Porter - I take it that the menz polish sampler kit is the best all rounder?


----------



## robrobc

*The Clarke Fund*

Any chance of an update on the PV Clarke fund, is it a goer?, do we need to get more donations etc etc, Thanks in advance


----------



## VIPER

Hoody90 said:


> I have just ordered a silverline DA from amazon (back to £20 now - was £26 in the week) and am wondering where is the cheapest place for pads for it?
> It's my first machine polisher as I've never want to spend the money on a G220/Porter - I take it that the menz polish sampler kit is the best all rounder?


Yes, the Menzerna polish kit gives you all the products you're likely to need - the 106 Final Finish would be the best one to try first as it's capable of correcting light swirling most finishes. Failing that, you might need to try the PO85 RD Intensive Polish followed by the PO85 RD Final Finish. Unless your car has severe swirling, the Power Gloss might be surplus to requirements, but if you do need to try it, I'd advise trying it on a scrap panel, or somewhere discreet on the car, as I'm not sure any of us with the Silverline have experience of a polish as abrasive as this, so can't say for certain if this machine is capable of sufficiently breaking it down. As I say though, it's the only one of the 4 in the set that you're more than likely not going to need.

Good pads are Menzerna orange polishing pads and 3M black polishing pads (these can also be used as finishing pad). The Menz pads are widely available but the 3M are few and far between now, although I think someone on here was selling his last week? Another, but untried, alternative is the set of 3 cutting, polishing and finishing pads from David G at Carwashnwax - check out his section in the trader's bit of the site. In case you have joined this thread without reading all the previous pages, try and stick to 135mm / 5.25 inch pads with this machine if you can as the larger 150mm or 6/6.5 inch pads can sometimes cause issues with the machine struggling to maintain pad spinning speed when on the car.



robrobc said:


> Any chance of an update on the PV Clarke fund, is it a goer?, do we need to get more donations etc etc, Thanks in advance


Hi, mate :wave: The most up to date list for the fund is the one I posted earlier ^^^ and currently stands at £33, so yes, a few more donations are required, please :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

Right, an update - we seem to have a bit of a stumbling block regarding this Clarke fund. I've just phoned Machine Mart to enquire about their next available VAT free promotional day (after waiting a week and getting no reply from my email). Apparantly it's not going to be until sometime in January, which I'm surprised and disppointed at as I was expecting it to be the end of Nov or at the latest beginning of Dec .

So, that presents a few choices:-

A) wait until that day to get it at the VAT free price of £44 and hope the fund has reached that figure by then (give or take a few quid). Trouble is, this is a long way off and those who have contributed already, for which I'm very grateful, I'm sure they, and indeed I, wanted to get this review / comparison done a lot sooner than this.

B) don't wait for the promo day and be prepared to pay the full £52, but that obviously means even more contributions and the time required to get them.

C) I use the contributions to date, and make up the rest myself, but if I'm doing this, then I'm not really prepared to give up my Silverline as well, as I was originally willing to pay for the P&P to the winner, (and as it's quite a heavy item in its box, that wouldn't be cheap) but if I've got to make up the shortfall in the fund _and_ pay to send the Silverline, it's going to be costing me a fair bit, which without going into specifics, I can't really afford to be doing just at the moment.

It's just that the fund seems to have come to a bit of a standstill and I'm sure some or all of the contributers are wondering what the state of play is, as I would if it were me.

Now I am willing to wait for the fund to get to the amount required if that's what's necessary, but I'm just concerned about some thinking that they've contributed and are (as yet) getting no return for that donation. The money is still sat in my PP account btw, and will continue to do so until something's decided .

Not really sure what the best plan of action is really?

Cheers PV


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Here's where I stand:

I would much rather see you get it for free via the fund. If that is going to be possible, I don't know. I am happy waiting to find out.

I also don't mind you keeping the Silverline. I gave you the donation because I felt you deserved it - not in return for a raffle ticket.

So I guess I am trying to say I don't mind!!! Good old indecisive me!! I vote we hang on a bit and try and get some others to donate. £1 or £2 each for several people and we will soon be there.


----------



## VIPER

Cheers for that, Dave :thumb:

We'll see what a few of the other contributers think when they next read the thread.

I don't mind topping up the fund a bit if it gets to a stage where it's only a few quid short as it would be unfair to hold the proceedings up for sake of a small shortfall, but I'm sure all concerned would understand that I don't really want to be adding £20 as that's almost the cost of buying another Silverline.


----------



## bluenose

mazda3_daveg said:


> Here's where I stand:
> 
> I also don't mind you keeping the Silverline. I gave you the donation because I felt you deserved it - not in return for a raffle ticket.


I agree with mazda3_daveg on that. The contribution was for the wealth of advice more than anything. The 'original PV tried and tested Silverline with extended cable' must be worth at least £20! You could put it up for sale and the fund would be complete - I'd have no probs with you doing that.
... and if you hate the clarke, buy another Silverline, struggle with pad rotation, degrease bearing yada yada yada..:buffer:


----------



## VIPER

bluenose said:


> I agree with mazda3_daveg on that. The contribution was for the wealth of advice more than anything. The 'original PV tried and tested Silverline with extended cable' must be worth at least £20! You could put it up for sale and the fund would be complete - I'd have no probs with you doing that.
> ... and if you hate the clarke, buy another Silverline, struggle with pad rotation, degrease bearing yada yada yada..:buffer:


That's a really good idea actually, it would have to be on ebay though as I'm not a paid member on here so I can't sell anything. If I mentioned on this thread about it going live on the day I listed it, then I could be sure it would be someone on here who would buy it.

Let's see how the fund goes for just a bit longer though, but that is a good way around it and would get the funds required and someone would get my Silverline, which as you say is tried and tested and doesn't require any messing about with with regards to degreasing etc. mine has plenty of grunt for spinning pads 

Cheers for that :thumb:


----------



## Step_7

I personally was never worried about the "raffle" for the Silverline as I already have one of the MAC B&Q machines so I'll quite happily wait for the Clarke experiments - especially as its not the weather for cleaning cars right now anyway. Well, not for me it isn't! 

Sure maybe if you are a good boy you'll get a few extra donations round Christmas!  :lol:


----------



## reefer110

Pit Viper said:


> as I'm not a paid member on here so I can't sell anything.


Maybe the powers that be can grant you an exemption ....for services rendered to DW :thumb:


----------



## maersk

Just get it - you won't regret it. I think it is a quite capable machine :thumb::buffer:


----------



## robrobc

mazda3_daveg said:


> Here's where I stand:
> 
> I would much rather see you get it for free via the fund. If that is going to be possible, I don't know. I am happy waiting to find out.
> 
> I also don't mind you keeping the Silverline. I gave you the donation because I felt you deserved it - not in return for a raffle ticket.
> 
> So I guess I am trying to say I don't mind!!! Good old indecisive me!! I vote we hang on a bit and try and get some others to donate. £1 or £2 each for several people and we will soon be there.


Well I may have put it slightly more succinctly than Dave  but I am with him on this one. Let's wait.


----------



## SixDegrees

^^ I too have opted for the MAC (from B&Q). I was going to wait but I need a new sander for some DIY and rather than buy a belt sander and then get a DA / RO type one later I simply opted for the MAC.

Not been near the car with yet but as above its not the weather. But as soon as I get a dry, mild day (might be next year at this rate) I plan to test it on the wee Polo. Polo'ss roof is dire so its prefect training ground.


----------



## RJH

Hi PV
I'm more interested in the clarke review than the raffle for the silverline. I say sell the silverline on ebay and go for it now! :buffer:

I'm happy to go with the majority though

Richard


----------



## footboy

Yep _ agree with that.

Just interested in the Clarke, you can keep your ugly orange silverlame.

_


----------



## Gareth2665

*Clarke Fund*

Pit,

I too gave my donation for the time and effort you have put into helping everyone out. You have answered many questions and not with just one liners.

I was extremely grateful for ther help you gave me following my first attempt with the Silverline. For the progress i initially made i might of well of been licking the paintwork. As you can see from my pleading for help in thread 520 to the results following your advice on thread 528. I know there are several other people giving good advice on this thread too but you have been at the forefront. You must have spent a fair while answering and catching up on the updates.

So to all those out there who would not have got into the DA polishing without this thread please make a donation to the old Pals Clarke fund. You have got to admit the results are far more rewarding that flogging ya guts out trying to do corrections by hand.

Thanks All

Gareth :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

Thanks for those kind words, Gareth - means a lot, mate :thumb: :thumb:


----------



## bidderman1969

so hopefully everyone will be happy if PV keeps his silverline, and just spends the collection on the new model?


----------



## VIPER

It's looking more likely that I'd be selling the Silverline (as once I have the Clarke, I'll never use the old machine, so it will just sit idle) but we'll see how the collection goes for a bit longer yet before I decide what to do


----------



## seany_222

Just sat and read most of this! Should be going to florida near xmas and was going to bring back a Porter cable and a few bits but this has tempted me to buy a Clarke! I think I could get a porter cable for about $100 give or take and i can get a transformer from work, so not too much in cost difference! What shall i do? Is the Porter Cable worth the wait? I dont need it too soon as robbie (valetmagic has just detailed my car! Thanks in advance for advice!


----------



## 3dr

seany_222 said:


> Just sat and read most of this! Should be going to florida near xmas and was going to bring back a Porter cable and a few bits but this has tempted me to buy a Clarke! I think I could get a porter cable for about $100 give or take and i can get a transformer from work, so not too much in cost difference! What shall i do? Is the Porter Cable worth the wait? I dont need it too soon as robbie (valetmagic has just detailed my car! Thanks in advance for advice!


might be $100 wasted if it goes wrong? where you going to get the warranty on it? and seeing as it has just been detailed all it should need is "top up" work or at the most light correction in 12 months or so.


----------



## johnnyboy5

johnnyboy5 said:


> link
> 
> would this be a good option?
> 
> edit: just realised the pad size is 150mm, does that matter much?


i posted about the clarke on page 23 of this thread and nobody seemed that interested then.
i got one anyway and ive modified it to have a smaller back plate. its definately a good bit of kit and i would recommend it
ill get pics of mine later


----------



## RJH

johnnyboy5 said:


> i posted about the clarke on page 23 of this thread and nobody seemed that interested then.
> i got one anyway and ive modified it to have a smaller back plate. its definately a good bit of kit and i would recommend it
> ill get pics of mine later


I for one missed that as this thread has grown! I'd be interested to know how you modified that backing plate - any other pointers for us??

Thanks
Richard


----------



## maersk

How have you modified the pad - or have you bought a smaller replacement?


----------



## johnnyboy5

well as you may know it comes with a 150mm backing plate which is quite big









so basically i measured how big i needed it to be to fit my pads, which was about 115mm i think








then i just marked a line and ground it down on my bench grinder
[i know its not perfectly round but it doesnt matter]

















after doing this and going to try it out i found the pad wouldnt spin so i degreased the bearing and removed this ring which fits between the backing plate and the actual machine
















i think thats got something to do with the dust extraction

now it spins my 6inch pads easily but the cable isnt very long so that will be my next mod

no before pics but heres a 15 year old astra bonnet i practiced on using my farecla pads and total dry use compound


----------



## m411mtf

Having already had some pretty good results with the Orange Silverline DA, I saw a 400w Mac in B&Q today at a reduced price due to a damaged box. At £14.99 I really couldn't pass it by! 

To be honest, I think the Mac is a better looking machine and is more ergonomically pleasing when in use. So it looks like the Silverline will shortly be hitting the bay of e after I've cleaned it up.


----------



## VIPER

johnnyboy5 said:


> i posted about the clarke on page 23 of this thread and nobody seemed that interested then.
> i got one anyway and ive modified it to have a smaller back plate. its definately a good bit of kit and i would recommend it
> ill get pics of mine later


Apologies for not acknowledging your post on p.23, mate - it wasn't intentionally ignored by me, I just must have missed it for some reason 

Nice mod on your machine there :thumb:


----------



## Guest

Arghhhh, damn 10 post rule for PM.

PV, can you let me know your PP details so I can contribute towards the Clarke fund? Been lurking on here for ages and now am salivating at the thought of getting one of these, as long as it is tried and tested ok first.

ETA: Can you also let me know what it stands at now too?


----------



## VIPER

PM on it's way, mate :thumb: Many thanks


----------



## Guest

Done :thumbs:


----------



## VIPER

Detail Doctor said:


> Done :thumbs:


1. 3dr £2 PAID
2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
3. mazda3_daveg £1.50 PAID
4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
5. RJH - £2 PAID
6. Bluenose £2 PAID
7. GeeJay £2 PAID
8. robrobc £1 PAID
9. gareth2665 £2.00 PAID
10. Vixmix £3 PAID
11. Yetizone £3 PAID
12. footboy £5 PAID
13 Reefer110 £2 PAID
14. Detail Doctor £7 PAID

TOTAL £40.00

Many thanks to Detail Doctor for his very generous donation to the fund - highly appreciated. And It wouldn't hurt at this point to thank everyone else on the list once again, so thankyou :thumb:

Cheers
PV


----------



## Guest

Least I could do, either way this thread will have saved me at least £70 for the machine I end up with, not to mention all the first class advice


----------



## maersk

Good mod....................................

Why not just use 165mm pads?

I use Lake Country with some success.

Nice to see two Clarke converts using on here, well done johnnyboy 5.

Did you check out the Griot's Garage site in Washington state? they market the same machine (with a 110v motor) and different handle as a polisher. Vids on use etc.

I may order a spare and 'doctor' it.


----------



## andrew_s46

Hi eyeveryone.

Not sure if to post this here or not - but will have a go!

I bought one of the silverline £20 machines and just received it today. Just wondered if anybody has any video tutorials? I have looked at a few guides and videos on youtube but still not confident enough to try it on my car.

I bought Megs 80 and 83 and Menz Orange pad if that makes a difference.


Thanks in advance

Andrew


----------



## VIPER

Hi Andrew, the only one specifically for this machine is by me on page 43 of this thread. Please note, however, that it was done for the intentions of demonstrating how fast the pad should be rotating on the panel under pressure on a Silverline that was working in the correct way (a few members had issues with over greased barings from the factory and their machines were struggling to keep the pads spinning as soon as they touched the car). Polishes need to be worked for much longer than I'm showing in the video clip, but as I say, it was just to demo a correctly functioning machine, not to show how machine polishing should be done.

Hope the clip helps but if not, please PM me and I'll try to help out 

Also, don't forget to try the #80 first as that might well be enough to correct without going up a step to the #83. Always try the least abrasive combination first.


----------



## andrew_s46

Thanks Viper,

I had a look through most of the pages but did skip a couple, seems i missed one of the most important ones!

It seems my machine suffers from the bearings being over greased as it doesn't perform like in the video. Doesn't really spin at all and moves in the opposite direction to the arrow on the side.
Having read a few of the pages it seems the advice is to just press harder, is that correct? Im totally paranoid about destroying my car!


----------



## VIPER

andrew_s46 said:


> Thanks Viper,
> 
> I had a look through most of the pages but did skip a couple, seems i missed one of the most important ones!
> 
> It seems my machine suffers from the bearings being over greased as it doesn't perform like in the video. Doesn't really spin at all and moves in the opposite direction to the arrow on the side.
> Having read a few of the pages it seems the advice is to just press harder, is that correct? Im totally paranoid about destroying my car!


There is a post somewhere showing removing the backing plate and info about degreasing the baring as that sounds like what's happening to yours, I don't think it's a pressure issue or the way you're using it. Definitely sounds like a classic baring issue. Surprising really just how many people have had this with theirs, as mine's worked great from day one? Must have been a different batch or something as I've had mine for a good while longer than everyone else on here. I'll have a fish about see if I can find it (as I know roughly where to look and it might take you ages :lol

Back in a minute :thumb:

Page 42, post # 419


----------



## bluenose

:wave: If it helps Andrew_s46 I have exactly the same combo as you and I'd never done any machine polishing before either. Sort your bearing (I also removed the rubber skirt on mine) and as Pit says, start with the #80. If you look at Pit's video you can see that he's not applying loads of pressure - keep the machine moving slowly and you'll be fine. If you are really paranoid (which I can fully appreciate) just work the polish for a couple of mins first time, wipe off and check your work. Take it steadily, and get a feel for it rather than rushing and expecting instant results...... 
Hope that might give you some confidence to have a go. At the end of the day you could cause way more trouble with an old rag and t-cut than what you have now! :thumb:


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Totally agree with what has been said above. I was so scared when I first used it. I read all the relevant posts, watched a few vids on youtube and checked this excellent guide

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=63859

I had a tentative first try and agree there is no risk of harm when using a light pad/polish combo. As bluenose just said I was horrified what Tcut and an old MF did to a car I tried to touch up. Much safer using the Silverline!


----------



## maersk

Don't knock T-cut! :lol:

A very maligned product, aswith AG Paint Renovator........... :lol:


:thumb:


----------



## robrobc

mazda3_daveg said:


> Totally agree with what has been said above. I was so scared when I first used it. I read all the relevant posts, watched a few vids on youtube and checked this excellent guide
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=63859
> 
> I had a tentative first try and agree there is no risk of harm when using a light pad/polish combo. As bluenose just said I was horrified what Tcut and an old MF did to a car I tried to touch up. Much safer using the Silverline!


If you are really nervous then it is worth getting a scrap panel to practise on. I did and it boosted my confidence.


----------



## VIPER

Any joy with degreasing the baring on the Silverline, Andrew? 





(NEARLY THERE, PAUL - HANG IN THERE, PAL, THE END OF THE THREAD IS WITHIN SIGHT !! lol!!!)


----------



## andrew_s46

Hi Viper,

I had a look tonight and degreased the bearing. Massive improvement in comparison to before :thumb:, although i can still see room for improvement. I might take it apart again and give it another soak.

bluenose, daveg - thanks for the comments, makes me feel a little more confident.

I give it a go on a small panel i had lying around in the garage and it seems to give off quite a bit of heat, is this normal? The panel wasn't very big so maybe that was part of it - seemed to work quite well though.

Sorry if im treading over old ground, i have been coming on here for a while but this is my first hurdle into using a machine to polish.

Thanks,

Andrew


----------



## VIPER

When you say giving off heat, do you mean from the machine itself or the panel? Either way mine never gets hot, nor makes the panel hot - very slightly warm on the paintwork, which is inevitable when something's spinning against another surface, but nothing really.


----------



## robrobc

Pit Viper said:


> When you say giving off heat, do you mean from the machine itself or the panel? Either way mine never gets hot, nor makes the panel hot - very slightly warm on the paintwork, which is inevitable when something's spinning against another surface, but nothing really.


I agree Pit, panels get a little warm but definitely not hot, not wishing to teach you how to suck eggs so to speak,  it may be worth re-visiting Dave KG's guide/tutorial to make sure you have/are following his advice which IMHO is some of the best.:thumb:


----------



## andrew_s46

I think i will have another look at the guide.

Its the panel that gets hot. Although not burn yourself kind of hot and it cools very quickly. Was just slightly concerned. There doesn't appear to be any damage to the panel despite this so probably just me being a :newbie:

Thanks Guys


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Another tip for getting used to the machine - get hold of some glass polish such as AG Glass Polish and do all your windows. Gives you a chance to get used to the right pressure/pad rotation speed without having to worry. :buffer:


----------



## VIPER

A little heat is a good thing as it's part of the process of machine polishing (and rotary polishers produce more heat that DA machines and is part of the reason why they are able to correct faster and arguably slightly better).

If you put the back of your hand on the panel immediately after removing the machine it should just feel similar to how the panel would feel if you'd had it in the sun for a few minutes i'e just 'warm'. If it's acutally 'hot' then something's wrong.

Andrew, how fast is the pad spinning on the car when you've got about the weight of the machine (plus a bit) pressing down. It should be roughly anything from 1 to about 3/4 revs per second - or like mine in the video clip on page 43. I can't really see why the panel is getting anything more than mildly warm unless it's spinning at considerably more than this speed, which for this machine (or any non-direct drive random orbit for that matter) would be very difficult to achieve.


----------



## davida3544

Hi

Just an update. 

I ordered my Silverline back on page 46. Having greased the bearings I wasnt happy with the performance so have bought the Clarke.

I have to say that this really is the machine to go for. At £52 an absolute bargain. It cut through the swirls on my BM with no problems at all whereas the Silverline hardly touched it. I used Menz pads & polish with both machines so this a accurate comparison.

Spend the extra, you wont be dissapointed.:buffer:


----------



## VIPER

davida3544 said:


> Hi
> 
> Just an update.
> 
> I ordered my Silverline back on page 46. Having greased the bearings I wasnt happy with the performance so have bought the Clarke.
> 
> I have to say that this really is the machine to go for. At £52 an absolute bargain. It cut through the swirls on my BM with no problems at all whereas the Silverline hardly touched it. I used Menz pads & polish with both machines so this a accurate comparison.
> 
> Spend the extra, you wont be dissapointed.:buffer:


There's not really another way to say this (and I'm really not trying to be disrespectful here ), but are you sure you were getting the correct performance out of the Silverline machine? The only real difference, on paper at least, is the motor power and the backing plate size (which is immaterial here). The orbit throw is more or less the same from what I've gathered, as is the speed range (on the correct settings). 
I know that there are many awaiting my back to back comparision with these 2 when the fund gets to the required amount, and at the moment obviously your input here is greater than mine having already got both machines.

I'd be interested to know exactly how the Silverline was performing? as there are enough members, including myself obviously, who have had results from it  (although granted your BMW paint is one of the harder ones)


----------



## Hoody90

Hi, i just received my Silverline from Amazon and the Menz starter kit from CYC (ordered at 2:40 yesterday afternoon and received this morning - thanks Tim. Also, he allowed me to swap the backing plate for anything of similar value so I got an extra pad and a clay bar.) I have some fairly deep scratches to remove from a Blue Corolla - I'm thinking of starting off with the Intensive polish on a compounding pad and then using the Final Finish on the orange polishing pad. Will this be OK or will the compounding pad be a bit too harsh?
Also, what speed should I set the silverline at or is it just a case of moving up the speeds to get the desired effect?

Thanks for any help!


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Always start with the least abrasive combination you have. Work it for one pass and see what level of correction you are getting. If it isn't giving the level of correction you are after, then step up a level by changing pad or polish. Keep doing so until you get a combination that is working well - and do the whole car with it.

If you have ended up with a coarse polish and pad you will need to refine the finish with a finishing polish and pad. The idea when machine polishing is to get the right level of correction whilst removing the smallest amount of paint possible.

I spread the polish on the lowest speed on the Silverline and then step it up to 4 or 5 for polishing. I think the exact setting depends on your paint/pad/polish - just choose the speed that allows you to get approx 2 revolutions of the pad per second with the right pressure.


----------



## Hoody90

Thanks for the help there Dave, appreciate it. I think that I'm now going to use a polishing pad with the intensive to start with and see how that goes.


----------



## VixMix

Been away for a week on holibags. Just caught up with the post. 

As far as the fund goes, it would appear that I am falling into the consensus. I donated as a thank you for the great advice as I was on the verge of purchasing a G220, I am very grateful as the Silverline does what I need it to at this time and I think I will be trying out a rotary in the near future. The Silverline has been a great tool. I have no intention of being involved in a raffle, I would prefer to see the Silverline go to a noobie :thumb:. How this is achieved I am not fussy.


----------



## davida3544

Pit Viper said:


> There's not really another way to say this (and I'm really not trying to be disrespectful here ), but are you sure you were getting the correct performance out of the Silverline machine? The only real difference, on paper at least, is the motor power and the backing plate size (which is immaterial here). The orbit throw is more or less the same from what I've gathered, as is the speed range (on the correct settings).
> I know that there are many awaiting my back to back comparision with these 2 when the fund gets to the required amount, and at the moment obviously your input here is greater than mine having already got both machines.
> 
> I'd be interested to know exactly how the Silverline was performing? as there are enough members, including myself obviously, who have had results from it  (although granted your BMW paint is one of the harder ones)


Hi PV

The problem with MY Silverline is that even when I degreased the bearings it seemed to get bogged down with even the leased amount of polish whereas with the Clarke machine it had no problems and the polish breaks down quickly.
Maybe the issue is down to myself or maybe my machine was a one off but it seems to me that the Clarke has so much more torque.

Look forward to your review PV.:thumb:


----------



## mazda3_daveg

1. 3dr £2 PAID
2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
3. mazda3_daveg £2.50 PAID
4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
5. RJH - £2 PAID
6. Bluenose £2 PAID
7. GeeJay £2 PAID
8. robrobc £1 PAID
9. gareth2665 £2.00 PAID
10. Vixmix £3 PAID
11. Yetizone £3 PAID
12. footboy £5 PAID
13 Reefer110 £2 PAID
14. Detail Doctor £7 PAID

TOTAL £41.00

Only a tenner to go!!!


----------



## maersk

The Clarke machine IS excellent. :buffer::buffer::buffer::buffer:


----------



## VIPER

Hoody90 said:


> Hi, i just received my Silverline from Amazon and the Menz starter kit from CYC (ordered at 2:40 yesterday afternoon and received this morning - thanks Tim. Also, he allowed me to swap the backing plate for anything of similar value so I got an extra pad and a clay bar.) I have some fairly deep scratches to remove from a Blue Corolla - I'm thinking of starting off with the Intensive polish on a compounding pad and then using the Final Finish on the orange polishing pad. Will this be OK or will the compounding pad be a bit too harsh?
> Also, what speed should I set the silverline at or is it just a case of moving up the speeds to get the desired effect?
> 
> Thanks for any help!


Are the deep scratches you referred to all over the car or only in localised areas? If they are only in certain areas then my advice would be not to set up your polish pad combo to tackle those and do the entire with them as you'll be taking off too much clear coat in all the other less bad areas unnecessarily. If they are really deep then wetsanding might be an option, or failing that just use the compounding pad for the areas with the deep scratches and switch to the polishing pad for everywhere else. As Dave quite rightly says, always start off with least abrasive combo you have at your disposal and work up.



VixMix said:


> Been away for a week on holibags. Just caught up with the post.
> 
> As far as the fund goes, it would appear that I am falling into the consensus. I donated as a thank you for the great advice as I was on the verge of purchasing a G220, I am very grateful as the Silverline does what I need it to at this time and I think I will be trying out a rotary in the near future. The Silverline has been a great tool. I have no intention of being involved in a raffle, I would prefer to see the Silverline go to a noobie :thumb:. How this is achieved I am not fussy.


Hi Vikki, thanks for your comments :thumb: I think the raffle idea is off anyway, I'll probably just sell the Silverline on ebay or something after I've done the comparison test with the Clarke.



davida3544 said:


> Hi PV
> 
> The problem with MY Silverline is that even when I degreased the bearings it seemed to get bogged down with even the leased amount of polish whereas with the Clarke machine it had no problems and the polish breaks down quickly.
> Maybe the issue is down to myself or maybe my machine was a one off but it seems to me that the Clarke has so much more torque.
> 
> Look forward to your review PV.:thumb:


Okay, no prob :thumb: Sounds like you've just been a bit unlucky and got a machine that even after the degreasing modification, still didn't want to play ball - shame, but at least you've now got a machine that you're happy with 



mazda3_daveg said:


> 1. 3dr £2 PAID
> 2. Step_7 £2.50 PAID
> 3. mazda3_daveg £2.50 PAID
> 4. NeoPanther - £5 PAID
> 5. RJH - £2 PAID
> 6. Bluenose £2 PAID
> 7. GeeJay £2 PAID
> 8. robrobc £1 PAID
> 9. gareth2665 £2.00 PAID
> 10. Vixmix £3 PAID
> 11. Yetizone £3 PAID
> 12. footboy £5 PAID
> 13 Reefer110 £2 PAID
> 14. Detail Doctor £7 PAID
> 
> TOTAL £41.00
> 
> Only a tenner to go!!!


Cheers, Dave :thumb: Yep, purchase is imminant


----------



## NeoPanther

I too wasn't really expecting the raffle of your old Silverline, Pit, although it's very kind of you to offer. Besides, if the Clarke is recommended, I'll probably get that instead, so please feel free to sell the Silverline. :thumb:


----------



## 3dr

as the fund has been pathetically slow given the amount of people that have benefit'd from this thread (thanks to all those that have contributed :thumb i say sell your silverline and put the money towards making up the shortfall in the "fund", and bag yourself the better DA for no more expense to you than your original outlay of the silverline :thumb:


----------



## Chelle

I'm fairly new to the whole detailing lark, and was directed to this thread from another forum. After spending most of yesterday evening reading through the 90 pages, I just want to say a huge thank you to all who have contributed.

I bought my silverline from amazon last week after recommendations on UKFN, and have now ordered a set of pads to go with it. 

I already own the megs 3 step and have just bought samples of SSR1, 2, 2.5 and 3. I also own the black hole show glaze. I'm considering Collinite for over the winter, as I won't get chance to top it up that often.

Does anyone have any recommendations for a "buffing" pad that I can use with this machine? It's the 125mm one. 

Once again, many thanks 
Chelle


----------



## Hoody90

Did the car today (99 Corolla) with the Silverline and Menz kit and it worked perfectly. I used the compounding pad with intensive polish on the badly scratched areas, especially on drivers door around the handle from keys. I then used intensive on a polishing pad on other panels. Then it was finished with Final Finish on an orange polishing pad. CG XXX wax was then applied to protect it and add even more shine! For a total of £50 for everything it is a bargain - took a while but it's well worth it!

Below is a pic. of the finished Bonnet:


----------



## Shiny

I've done a mini review on the Clarke DA here - http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=91429 if anyone is considering one.

Don't let this deter from PV's fund though, as he can compare the Silverline against the Clarke, which is something i can't do!


----------



## bluenose

Hi all. Can anyone tell me what noise levels are like on the Clarke and how it compares to the Silverline? I live on a fairly small development and the noise of the Silverline is a concern as I don't really want to start annnoying my neighbours. I know I won't use it every week, but I'd rather consider others......
If the Clarke is significantly quieter, I may consider seeling my Silverline 

Thanks all :wave:


----------



## VIPER

The purchase of the Clarke is only about a week away, folks as I'm adding the last tenner or so in myself and I've just to wait for the funds to be transferred from my PP account into the bank (which takes about 5 working days normally), so all being well I should be getting it at the weekend :thumb:

So, *a big thanks again to everyone who's contributed* :thumb: :thumb:     and I'll just sell my Silverline on ebay once all comparison tests against it have been done.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that *the fund is now effectively closed* having initiated the transfer of the monies to my bank. So, other commitments depending I'll go to my local MM store either at the weekend or early next week (hope they've got one in stock :thumb


----------



## 3dr

bluenose said:


> Hi all. Can anyone tell me what noise levels are like on the Clarke and how it compares to the Silverline? I live on a fairly small development and the noise of the Silverline is a concern as I don't really want to start annnoying my neighbours. I know I won't use it every week, but I'd rather consider others......
> If the Clarke is significantly quieter, I may consider seeling my Silverline
> 
> Thanks all :wave:


Try pushing your caravan a bit closer to where the Donkey's sleep, away from the Hiabs :lol: :thumb:


----------



## ipodsandguns

Pit Viper said:


> and I'll just sell my Silverline on ebay once all comparison tests against it have been done.


expecting the clarke to win then?


----------



## VIPER

ipodsandguns said:


> expecting the clarke to win then?


:lol: Hmmm I have compromised my unbaised pre-test approach there haven't I (Oops ). I think it's pretty much a 'given' though


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Better than the Silverline - more than likely. That much better to be worth selling the Silverline and buying the Clarke - only PV's expert opinion can tell us that :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

Thanks for the vote of confidence there, Dave :thumb: but I wouldn't say I was an 'expert' by any means , well not in the area of machine polishing. I will try to give an honest opinion of what each one is like to use comparing the ergonomics and the noise etc. and how well they each tackle correction with the same polish/pad combo. As best I can I'll try to approach it from a newbie's point of view and declare which I think would the best buy for them. I think it's pretty much a forgone conclusion that it's going to be the logical next step for those who already have a Silverline, but for those yet to break into machine polishing of any kind, then who knows? we shall see


----------



## maersk

I don't think you will be disappointed.....................................


----------



## m411mtf

Okay, so after just three uses, my Silverline has gone **** up and will only work on the highest speed setting! Has anyone else had this problem? I bought mine from Amazon and they are just fobbing me off by telling me to deal with Silverline direct. Silverline are then telling me to go back to Amazon. Is this perhaps something I could fix myself and so by-pass the pair of them?


----------



## GeeJay

m411mtf said:


> Okay, so after just three uses, my Silverline has gone **** up and will only work on the highest speed setting! Has anyone else had this problem? I bought mine from Amazon and they are just fobbing me off by telling me to deal with Silverline direct. Silverline are then telling me to go back to Amazon. Is this perhaps something I could fix myself and so by-pass the pair of them?


I found that when I opened mine up to extend the power cord, one of the spade connectors that connects to the speed regulator was absolutely mangled, and wedged into position to make contact. 
I managed to prise it apart, and push it on snugly, so it works a treat now :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

m411mtf said:


> Okay, so after just three uses, my Silverline has gone **** up and will only work on the highest speed setting! Has anyone else had this problem? I bought mine from Amazon and they are just fobbing me off by telling me to deal with Silverline direct. *Silverline are then telling me to go back to Amazon*. Is this perhaps something I could fix myself and so by-pass the pair of them?


They're what??!! It comes with a 3 year *manufacturers* warranty. Last time I checked Amazon didn't manufacture anything they sell. They're in the wrong here I think.

Anyway, good advice from GeeJay and if it were me I'd tackle it myself as it's probably something and nothing anyway. Hope you get it fixed - keep us updated :thumb:


----------



## m411mtf

Cheers for that, I'll go get my screwdriver!


----------



## robrobc

m411mtf said:


> Cheers for that, I'll go get my screwdriver!


I generally find a hammer to be useful at this point as well :lol:


----------



## VIPER

Look what I've got  :thumb:










Weather permitting at the weekend I'll be having a bit of an initial play and comparison with the Silverline to compare ease of use and noise etc. with a proper correction review comparison to follow.

Once again a big THANKYOU!! to everyone :thumb: :thumb:


----------



## footboy

Woooohoooooo

Obama and a Clarke in one day. I need to sit down!


----------



## ipodsandguns

looks well in the flesh


----------



## reefer110

footboy said:


> Woooohoooooo
> 
> Obama and a Clarke in one day. I need to sit down!


LOL


----------



## GeeJay

AWESOME, Pit!! 
What are your initial thoughts? Weight, ergonomics etc. Noise? Don't tell me you haven't fired it up in excitement like this dude:


----------



## ipodsandguns

that guys brilliant!


----------



## VIPER

I'm going to have a go at removing the dust exctraction plastic housing in a bit. :thumb:





ONLY A FEW PAGES LEFT NOW, PAUL - GO ON SON YOU CAN DO IT!!


----------



## ipodsandguns

have a look round see if theres any way at all of fitting a different backing plate? maybe with modding the replacement backing plate too


----------



## VIPER

GeeJay said:


> AWESOME, Pit!!
> What are your initial thoughts? Weight, ergonomics etc. Noise? Don't tell me you haven't fired it up in excitement like this dude:
> 
> YouTube - My New Flex 3401


Not pluged it in yet, no. I've got it on my knee as I type this. weight seems roughly the same as the Silverline (but I'll weigh them both later for an accurate comparison).

Ergonomics - superb really, very comfortable to hold and more 'natural' feeling than the Silverline in that it doesn't feel as 'tall' or 'top heavy'. Not that I've ever had any issues with the old machine when in use but this one feels better. The main section of the body (the thickest part where the logo is) is still small enough that you could just hold it with one hand around there (if the trigger was set to 'locked on'). Of course it's always better practice to use 2 hands, one on the top handle and the other on the grip so you can switch off quickly if needed, but how many of us occasionally just move polishing machines around with one hand when doing a roof or bonnet? I know I have with the Silverline and it would be even easier with the Clarke :thumb:


----------



## maersk

Looks just like mine! :buffer::buffer:

:thumb:


----------



## VIPER

Right, having switched on the Clarke, 3 things were immediately obvious:-
1. The size of the random offset or 'throw' is noticably bigger then the Silverline's, which should bode well for the speed of correction and the severity of swirling it's able to tackle.

2. Initially it seems louder, and more of a higher pitched noise as opposed to the Silverline which is a lower pitched 'drone'. I will investigate this further later.

3. When in it's 'off' state the pad feels very stiff and restricted and when switched on the pad wasn't really spinning at all (like my Silverline does in the Video clip on page 43 of this thread. It was oscillating just fine, and demonstrating the greater offest I mentioned above, but was just barely rotating and if I even so much as touched it with my fingers it would stop spinning altogether, so...

Off with the velco backing plate by undoing the 4 retaining screws to reveal:-










And the underside of the backing plate looks like this (further investigations and thoughts on possible modifications etc. for smaller ones to follow in due course).










You then need to lift out this plastic ring with a grease soaked felt inner part:-










To leave it looking like this:-










Then back on with the backing plate (the apple pastry is long since gone btw - mmmmm :thumb: :lol










This now leaves the backing plate to spin freely as there's now a few mm of gap between the back of the backing plate which was previously rubbing against that ring we've just removed:-










Now it behaves just like my Silverline i.e spins freely when off and very quickly when powered with great resistance to me trying to hold my hand against it - in fact more so due to the more powerful 750w motor's increased torque. This should help it cope easily with the larger 150 and 165mm pads that the Silverline always struggled with.

Something that's just occurred to me, but I won't know until I've fetched the silverline from the garage - I wonder if the 4 screw holes holding the backing plates on both machines match up? If so they should be interchangable. Not sure of the merit of being able to do that, but it's just a thought 

Another thought:- If you could order a spare backing plate directly from Clarke as a spare part (it has its own part No. in the instruction leaflet so I can't see why not?) You could then just cut it down to whatever size you wanted to take a small 'spot pad'.

Might be worth a call or email to Clarke to find out if these are available (called 'Sand Pad' in the book - Part No. HTCROS2006).


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Very nice Pit, very nice :thumb:


----------



## reefer110

Pit Viper said:


> Right, having switched on the Clarke, 3 things were immediately obvious:-
> 1. The size of the random offset or 'throw' is noticably bigger then the Silverline's, which should bode well for the speed of correction and the severity of swirling it's able to tackle.
> 
> 2. Initially it seems louder, and more of a higher pitched noise as opposed to the Silverline which is a lower pitched 'drone'. I will investigate this further later.
> 
> 3. When in it's 'off' state the pad feels very stiff and restricted and when switched on the pad wasn't really spinning at all (like my Silverline does in the Video clip on page 43 of this thread. It was oscillating just fine, and demonstrating the greater offest I mentioned above, but was just barely rotating and if I even so much as touched it with my fingers it would stop spinning altogether, so...
> 
> Off with the velco backing plate by undoing the 4 retaining screws to reveal:-
> 
> And the underside of the backing plate looks like this (further investigations and thoughts on possible modifications etc. for smaller ones to follow in due course).
> 
> Now it behaves just like my Silverline i.e spins freely when off and very quickly when powered with great resistance to me trying to hold my hand against it - in fact more so due to the more powerful 750w motor's increased torque. This should help it cope easily with the larger 150 and 165mm pads that the Silverline always struggled with.
> 
> Something that's just occurred to me, but I won't know until I've fetched the silverline from the garage - I wonder if the 4 screw holes holding the backing plates on both machines match up? If so they should be interchangable. Not sure of the merit of being able to do that, but it's just a thought
> 
> Another thought:- If you could order a spare backing plate directly from Clarke as a spare part (it has its own part No. in the instruction leaflet so I can't see why not?) You could then just cut it down to whatever size you wanted to take a small 'spot pad'.


Nice one, thanks for that. I shall be doing that mod to mine in the next few days


----------



## VIPER

The only thing from a ergonomics perspective that I prefer on the Silverline is the speed controller. The clearly numbered wheel on the top of the Silverline is easy to adjust even 'mid polish' without lifting it off the car. Whereas this one's is on the trigger like a drill and is a bit more fiddly to adjust and the graduations on it (A...F) aren't easy to see. Not a big problem and I dare say that this machine could do it's correction on speed A and you'd never need to touch it. In fact I sometimes left my Silverline on speed 1 by accident and it didn't really have any detrimental effect.

UPDATE: No, the 4 holes for the backing plate fixing screws aren't the same on both machines (the Clarke's is 5mm bigger between the holes) so they aren't interchangable leaving only option of getting a spare plate from Clarke and cutting it down to say, 90mm ish so that small spot pads can be used. It would cut down easy with a fine cut blade in a jigsaw.

It's a lot noisier than I was hoping though.


----------



## Step_7

If you had access to a reasonable machine shop you could make up a metal adaptor bracket that would screw into the 4 holes but at the other end give a standard thread to allow you to fit whatever backing plate you wanted. Wouldn't be too hard to do actually and if made thick enough could give more clearance from the machine body to the pad. 

The MAC polisher from B&Q has a similar 4 bolt arrangement so I might give this a try on my own one.


----------



## m411mtf

Right, little update on my defective Silverline. Don't ever bother calling Silverline direct, they weren't very happy that Amazon had given me their phone number as it seems that they don't like direct contact with the public! They make their number impossible to find by normal methods anyway.

The upshot is that after another blast at Amazon, they have sent me out a replacement unit, (arrived in less than 24 hours!) and supplied a free DHL label for me to return the original to them

The new one works much better than the first: It's less noisy and spins much easier with little resistance.


----------



## VIPER

m411mtf said:


> Right, little update on my defective Silverline. Don't ever bother calling Silverline direct, they weren't very happy that Amazon had given me their phone number as it seems that they don't like direct contact with the public! They make their number impossible to find by normal methods anyway.
> 
> The upshot is that after another blast at Amazon, they have sent me out a replacement unit, (arrived in less than 24 hours!) and supplied a free DHL label for me to return the original to them
> 
> The new one works much better than the first: It's less noisy and spins much easier with little resistance.


Glad you got there in the end, but not impressed with silverline (as I'm sure you're not either). What's the point of making a big thing about having a 3 year manufacturers warranty on their tools to then have that attitude. All you've done is follow up your standard customer rights by returning goods to the shop you bought it from for a replacement or refund, in your case, the former. Anyone can do that with anything they buy if it's defective, so where exactly does the 3 year warranty come in?

P.S Everyone like my idea for changing the thread title? The old one seemed a bit vague and I thought this better summed up what it was all about


----------



## reefer110

Pit Viper said:


> P.S Everyone like my idea for changing the thread title? The old one seemed a bit vague and I thought this better summed up what it was all about


I thought something was different but couldn't put my finger on it!


----------



## bluenose

Nice write up Pit. :thumb: Good comparisons against the Silverline so far - thanks for the effort. 
For the 'Silverliners' out there, removing the rubber 'skirt; in the same way as you tackled the Clarke leaves you with the exact same setup - i.e a few mil clearance and a perfectly spinning backing plate. Still worth doing on the Silverline IMO if you are after optimum rotation.

Shame about noise levels. A quieter machine would be a benefit to me personally but hey ho. Still really interested to see how the Clarke works out performance wise. Twice as good as the Silverline? We'll wait and see. :buffer:


----------



## VIPER

Cheers, mate - much more to come 

(well, not until I've got to the bottom of why some of my posts have been disappearing - I don't mind at all taking the time to write reviews etc. but not if they're going to vanish )

Agreed for sure on the same mod to the Silverline - I'm now thinking it's this that could have been causing the spinning issues that was attributed to the over greasing (in some of the cases anyway)?


----------



## Shiny

Pit Viper said:


> The only thing from a ergonomics perspective that I prefer on the Silverline is the speed controller. The clearly numbered wheel on the top of the Silverline is easy to adjust even 'mid polish' without lifting it off the car. Whereas this one's is on the trigger like a drill and is a bit more fiddly to adjust and the graduations on it (A...F) aren't easy to see. Not a big problem and I dare say that this machine could do it's correction on speed A and you'd never need to touch it. In fact I sometimes left my Silverline on speed 1 by accident and it didn't really have any detrimental effect.


I found you don't really need to change the speed anyway. I was getting what i felt was the best correction at speed 5, but to spread the polish, i was initially swapping to speed one, but eventually i realised you can just leave it on speed 5 and, with it being a soft start, you can lightly press the trigger and get a slow spin and use that the spread the polish. Then just squeeze harder when you are ready to start polishing.


----------



## VixMix

bluenose said:


> For the 'Silverliners' out there, removing the rubber 'skirt; in the same way as you tackled the Clarke leaves you with the exact same setup - i.e a few mil clearance and a perfectly spinning backing plate. Still worth doing on the Silverline IMO if you are after optimum rotation.


Pictures please! Anyone ?


----------



## davida3544

With regards to modding the Clarke machine, just give it a go before you do this. 
I found exactly the same as PV with mine in that it didnt rotate when I tried it before attaching a pad. Once I started polishing though and put pressure on the pad it did rotate and as I have posted earlier, it easily beats the performance of my Silverline.


----------



## bluenose

VixMix said:


> Pictures please! Anyone ?


Sorry. Yes, I'll post up tonight.


----------



## GeeJay

VixMix said:


> Pictures please! Anyone ?












Pretty bad picture, but you can see the skirt is removed. 
Very similar instructions to the clarke, Simply undo the 4 screws and the backing plate comes off, leaving you free to take the skirt off (its clipped behind the plastic, I ripped mine, but i threw it away anyway)

I was thinking that the rubber skirt was a) Stopping the pad from spinning, and b) the cause of the Menz pads breaking down a little too easily, by 'cutting' into the backs of them.

Pit - I had thoughts into creating a spot backing plate by cutting down, but was put off by the size of the machine and the lack of clearance. Then i had a thought that a simple contraption of a new, but cut down backing plate, some longer screws, and a 1" spacer of some sort would clear up the problem perfectly?
All I need now is what the spacer could possibly be...


----------



## GeeJay

Have been having another think about this....

All you need is a small metal plate with 4 holes on it for the screws, 2 M14 nuts welded together to give the clearance, then welded to the plate. I think a 'paint' is in order!

And a way to improve the throw of the machines is to offset the nut on the plate.


----------



## VIPER

Good idea GeeJay :thumb: I'm sure a browse around a hardware / DIY store would uncover something that could be used as a spacer even though it would mean drilling the 4 holes yourself, but not a major task.

I'm going to see if I can contact Clarke sometime today to ask about spare parts so anyone can get a spare backing plate and cut it down to a size suitable for spot pads. In the instructions they show an exploded diagram of the machine and a full parts list with everything numbered. I've also noticed there's a dedicated email for parts, so I'll see what they say :thumb:


----------



## GeeJay

Sorry for ANOTHER post - but Pit Viper, I'm just looking at the Clarke manual, and it seems that the black dust extractor comes completely off, leaving the fins of the extractor and the bearing exposed (maybe a slight problem on dustier polishes?) BUT - surely that'll come off, leaving perfectly suitable clearance of the backing plate from the car, when using a smaller plate?


----------



## VIPER

It will come off yes, but in addition to the slight drawback you mentioned, I think if anything it will also make it a bit louder, which is the last thing it needs. I'm not quite sure what you're picturing with the backing plate clearance there, fella?


----------



## GeeJay

At the moment, the backing plate sits pretty close to the black dust extraction part, and if you were to put a smaller spot pad backing plate on there, the black bit would come close to the paintwork. If you removed the black dust extraction bit, then the machine would be considerably thinner, right up to the handle, if that makes sense?

Here's my idea:










That'll work with some backing plates, and for 3m backing plates and the likes, you can use a cut down bit of this http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=80193&Referrer=Froogle to convertit 

I might get into production asap!


----------



## GeeJay

Another thought...http://www.screwfix.com/prods/13007...g/Buffing-Polishing-Sponge-Pad-150mm-M14-Blue

Well the red backing bit is essentially what I've said there. Simply tear off the sponge, drill 4 holes, flip it upside down to fit!


----------



## VIPER

Nope, not a clue what you're on about I'm afraid.......only messing, mate  Yeah I get what you mean and it would be an advantage to give as much clearance as possible, although to me I think it would be a bigger help in being able to get the machine and a spot pad closer to the car (in a horizontal plane) as the dust extraction moulding would be the first point of contact. I don't think there would be an issue with it getting too close to the panel you were polishing unless it were very concave or the machine was being held at a very wrong angle. 
I'll be leaving mine on for the time being and just to clarify for anyone else (and what I've told someone by PM this morning), leaving it on doesn't affect the performance, it's only the ring I showed being removed in the pics that needs to come off.

fired off an email to Clarke's parts department about price and ordering proceedure for the backing plate, as soon as I get a reply I'll post it on here :thumb:

P.S I can't _believe_ this thread will pass 50,000 views in the next day or so!! I can honestly say, with hand on heart, I thought it would only get 40,000 and fade away lol!


----------



## VIPER

Just had this reply email from Clarke about the spare backing plate :thumb::-

*Part# HTCROS2006 - £4.99p each. +VAT.

Carriage £6.75p.

You can pay by credit card/Maestro by phone or we can send you a pro-forma invoice if you wish to pay by cheque.

Regards Parts Dept.

Clarke International
Shrubland Rd
Leyton
London
E10 7RB

Tel: 02089887400

Fax: 02085583622*

Price of the thing itself would be defintely worth it to cut down to a 'spot pad' plate, but the P&P is killing it and making it quite dear I think. It must only weigh about 200 grams max.


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

Pit Viper said:


> Glad you got there in the end, but not impressed with silverline (as I'm sure you're not either). What's the point of making a big thing about having a 3 year manufacturers warranty on their tools to then have that attitude. All you've done is follow up your standard customer rights by returning goods to the shop you bought it from for a replacement or refund, in your case, the former. Anyone can do that with anything they buy if it's defective, so where exactly does the 3 year warranty come in?
> 
> P.S Everyone like my idea for changing the thread title? The old one seemed a bit vague and I thought this better summed up what it was all about


Yes to the Post Script, and congrats on the Clarke, I reckon this will be something to get soon as well. I might keep the Silverline though, always useful for have an orbital sander lol

I've been a bit quiet on this thread recently and have seen it's almost at the 100 pages mark!

I've had some thoughts as to simplifying it a bit after your review (dunno if you remember the "detailing on a budget" thread idea I had?) Once you've done your review I was thinking of knocking up a thread with the sliverline review and the bearing degreasing method and also the clarke with the greasy ring removal (there is a better way of saying this, but I refuse to use it). Sound good to everyone?


----------



## GeeJay

Mother-Goose said:


> Yes to the Post Script, and congrats on the Clarke, I reckon this will be something to get soon as well. I might keep the Silverline though, always useful for have an orbital sander lol
> 
> I've been a bit quiet on this thread recently and have seen it's almost at the 100 pages mark!
> 
> I've had some thoughts as to simplifying it a bit after your review (dunno if you remember the "detailing on a budget" thread idea I had?) Once you've done your review I was thinking of knocking up a thread with the sliverline review and the bearing degreasing method and also the clarke with the greasy ring removal (there is a better way of saying this, but I refuse to use it). Sound good to everyone?


I was thinking of doing this also, as to a new user, this thread is pretty informative now! lol. I definitely think a single post with _all_ the information/modifications you can do will be top notch


----------



## VIPER

You mean to pull out all the 'techy' parts from this thread and combine them into a seperate thread away from the main discussion? Yeah, great idea as this thread is so big now that it's hard to find bits for reference purposes now even for me. Also my Video clip of a correctly functioning Silverline needs to go in it as well. :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

GeeJay said:


> Have been having another think about this....
> 
> All you need is a small metal plate with 4 holes on it for the screws, 2 M14 nuts welded together to give the clearance, then welded to the plate. I think a 'paint' is in order!
> 
> And a way to improve the throw of the machines is to *offset the nut on the plate*.


The rest of the idea is great but are you sure about that bit? ^^ as it could place excess stress on a machine not designed around it. I know I previously suggested sticking the pad on 'off centre' way back to artificially increase the 'throw' but I'm not too sure on the long term effects on the machine of doing that either since. Just a thought


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

Yup!

I've got some page reffernces as to where certain bits are but you seem to be oddly imformed PitV, have you written it all down somewhere? lol


----------



## VIPER

Mother-Goose said:


> Yup!
> 
> I've got some page reffernces as to where certain bits are but you seem to be oddly imformed PitV, have you written it all down somewhere? lol


Nope, all info contained in this thread is all in my head....just not in the right order :lol:


----------



## robrobc

Pit Viper said:


> Just had this reply email from Clarke about the spare backing plate :thumb::-
> 
> *Part# HTCROS2006 - £4.99p each. +VAT.
> 
> Carriage £6.75p.
> 
> You can pay by credit card/Maestro by phone or we can send you a pro-forma invoice if you wish to pay by cheque.
> 
> Regards Parts Dept.
> 
> Clarke International
> Shrubland Rd
> Leyton
> London
> E10 7RB
> 
> Tel: 02089887400
> 
> Fax: 02085583622*
> 
> Price of the thing itself would be defintely worth it to cut down to a 'spot pad' plate, but the P&P is killing it and making it quite dear I think. It must only weigh about 200 grams max.


Group buy via one source, advance payment by PayPal to includepostage and handling. Maybe this would get the cost down ??????


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

Pit Viper said:


> Nope, all info contained in this thread is all in my head....just not in the right order :lol:


LOL right then, I'll have to do some compiling!


----------



## VIPER

Mother-Goose said:


> LOL right then, I'll have to do some compiling!


On a serious note then, choose the thread title carefully so it's obviously connected to this one and let's decide on what's going in it and stipulate at the beginning, that it's not the place to have general discussions otherwise it will just grow and become a duplicate of this thread. All general talk can remain on this one, and the new one is just a reference thread. :thumb:

(And I'll ask Glenn to edit his first post to include a link to the new thread when it's done with suitable notes as to what it is, and you could do vice-versa to this one in the opening post on the new thread - but you were doing that already, I know )


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Mother-Goose said:


> LOL right then, I'll have to do some compiling!


I was thinking it could do with a summary as new users aren't gonna read 100 pages no matter how useful you tell them they are!

Good on ya - wouldn't get me sifting through the thread to find the nuggets. Bit of a mammoth task!


----------



## VIPER

Mother-Goose, I'll give you a hand with it if you want me to in sifting through it to find most usefull posts - let me know :thumb:

Or an easier way is just pick out all posts by member Pit Viper  (joking, of course LOL! - in a bit of a daft mood today )


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

@PV Agreed, I'm going to ask the mods to Lock the thread once it's created, and make it a sticky (who would I need to speak to btw?)

@Dave, yeh I know, I'll do it over a few days at work lol

PV, I'll be PM'ing you close to the time, as well as GeeJay (I think it was your prelude?)

EDIT:

HA just seen your post above PV, might end up regretting that offer mate


----------



## GeeJay

Mother-Goose said:


> GeeJay (I think it was your prelude?)


That be Lloyd, aka Shiny Click

Feel free to PM me though


----------



## VIPER

Mother-Goose said:


> @PV Agreed, I'm going to ask the mods to Lock the thread once it's created, and make it a sticky *(who would I need to speak to btw?)*
> 
> @Dave, yeh I know, I'll do it over a few days at work lol
> 
> PV, I'll be PM'ing you close to the time, as well as GeeJay (I think it was your prelude?)
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> HA just seen your post above PV, might end up regretting that offer mate


Any of the mods, doesn't really matter - they'd pass it onto the appropriate person anyway (might as well make this thread a sticky as well whilst you're at it? I think it's big enough to merit it now!) :thumb: Wibble :lol:

50k views passed - woohoo!!!


----------



## Chelle

mazda3_daveg said:


> I was thinking it could do with a summary as new users aren't gonna read 100 pages no matter how useful you tell them they are!
> 
> Good on ya - wouldn't get me sifting through the thread to find the nuggets. Bit of a mammoth task!


As a newbie - I sat and read the 91 pages it was on at the time!

I've got my silverline, i've got my poorboys, and i'm just waiting for the pads to be delivered.

I'm really looking forward to getting going with this, and want to say thanks again for all the useful information.


----------



## Gareth2665

m411mtf said:


> Right, little update on my defective Silverline. Don't ever bother calling Silverline direct, they weren't very happy that Amazon had given me their phone number as it seems that they don't like direct contact with the public! They make their number impossible to find by normal methods anyway.
> 
> The upshot is that after another blast at Amazon, they have sent me out a replacement unit, (arrived in less than 24 hours!) and supplied a free DHL label for me to return the original to them
> 
> The new one works much better than the first: It's less noisy and spins much easier with little resistance.


Its all sorted now for m411mtf but for future reference with these kind of things heres a bit of advice:

Your contract / agreement was with Amazon not Silverline. You purchased the item from them not Silverline. Therefore if there is a fault within a reasonable time you are entitled by law to a full refund. You don't even have to have a replacement.

No matter what rubbish they give you about their Policy absolutely nothing exceeds the Sale Of Goods Act. If its not fit for purpose you get a refund. Its down to them then to send it to silverline for replacement.

Ive had this out out and always won my arguement, even with Cousins furniture store and Orange.
Just for info

Gareth


----------



## mazda3_daveg

I think I've busted my Silverline 

I opened it up today to fit a new 5m cable and it seemed to go fine. When I opened it up the carbon brushes popped out but I put them back in without any difficulty.

I sealed the thing back up and fired it up. It works fine but sounds very different. It sounds very 'clicky' and not as smooth before. I opened it back up to make sure both bushing were making good contact which they were.

Can't think of anything else? Everything seems to be in place and connected correctly. Any ideas anyone?


----------



## GeeJay

I've Just been to screwfix to get a blue compounding pad to use the metal back, and I think its going to be PERFECT for a DIY backing plate mount. Interestingly, it looks/feels/behaves EXACTLY like the SP blue pad i have...

I'll keep you all posted with DIY backing plate mount progress


----------



## VIPER

Look forward to that GeeJay :thumb:. I've seen a few different branded pads on websites recently that look the same as the SP pads (all of them, the orange cut, blue polishing and red finishing).

WELL DONE PTAV!!! :thumb: :thumb: You reached the end (well, as of now that is). Log on here to claim your prize for reading the entire thread in a day:-

www.imsoboredatworktoday.com

 :lol: :lol:


----------



## GeeJay

Sorry DaveG, I can't really help there as everything looks in place to me


----------



## VIPER

Same as above ^^ I'm afraid, Dave - difficult to diagnose with a pic (although it is a great pic btw. and should make it into the new upcoming 'reference' thread to accompany this thread). not that that's any kind of consolation I know, but all I can say is just do what I'd do and bite the bullet and get a G220? LOL! Only joking, no I'd just really give it another very close examination with a small electrical screwdriver or similar and give *all* the moving components a gentle poke and prod to see if anything seems 'loose'?


----------



## mazda3_daveg

GeeJay said:


> Sorry DaveG, I can't really help there as everything looks in place to me


When I opened it up to check I noticed that the casing of the inner coils that rotate was slightly scratched on one side. I can only assume that for some reason the bearings aren't sitting correctly in the plastic casing causing the axle to be slightly off centre and it just catches as it spins round?

It seems to work the same - so I'll just ignore the sound difference!


----------



## VIPER

Probably best not to risk anything further then, Dave and live with the slight extra noise if it's still performing okay, which is the main thing. might be a blessing in diguise if you eventually swap it for a Clarke as it will prepare you for the extra noise of this machine.

Just on that ^^^ the other Clarke owners - is your machine really loud? I know nobody will be able to make the comparison as I'm the only one with both this and Silverline, but just a general opinion on the volume will give me an indication if mine's normal? Cheers


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> Just on that ^^^ the other Clarke owners - is your machine really loud? I know nobody will be able to make the comparison as *I'm the only one with both this and Silverline*, but just a general opinion on the volume will give me an indication if mine's normal? Cheers


Consider your trumpet officially blown!


----------



## VIPER

GeeJay said:


> Consider your trumpet officially blown!


toot toot!!! :lol: (I'll be back to being a lowly 'single machine' guy though once the comparison reviews are done )

EDIT: forget that link just now, got it sent to me by someone else and automatically assumed it was a current listing - sorry (cheers, Paul )


----------



## reefer110

Pit Viper said:


> Just on that ^^^ the other Clarke owners - is your machine really loud? I know nobody will be able to make the comparison as I'm the only one with both this and Silverline, but just a general opinion on the volume will give me an indication if mine's normal? Cheers


Yea, it is pretty loud mate


----------



## VIPER

reefer110 said:


> Yea, it is pretty loud mate


What?? You what, mate...you're gonna have to speak up! :lol: :lol:


----------



## joe_0_1

Jam-roley poly, 97 pages!!! :doublesho

Could somebody kindly sum up this thread for me?Could do with a spare DA.

How much, where from, does it work, what pads?


----------



## m411mtf

Pit Viper said:


> I'm the only one with both this and Silverline


Oh no you ain't! :wave:

And yes, it does make a bit of a racket. But seeing as my neighbours are mostly asses, who cares!


----------



## reefer110

joe_0_1 said:


> Jam-roley poly, 97 pages!!! :doublesho
> 
> Could somebody kindly sum up this thread for me?Could do with a spare DA.
> 
> How much, where from, does it work, what pads?


Some people eh .....can't understand why some cant find the time to read through about 100 pages :lol:


----------



## VIPER

m411mtf said:


> Oh no you ain't! :wave:


sorry, I meant to say I'm the only one with the silverline, clarke, a PC, G220, Flex and a cylco  :lol: :lol:

Seriously though, what do you make of the noise difference? Silverline, a lower pitched 'drone' and the Clarke a more higher pitched 'mechanical' noise very much just like an angle grinder?


----------



## RJH

Pit Viper said:


> Probably best not to risk anything further then, Dave and live with the slight extra noise if it's still performing okay, which is the main thing. might be a blessing in diguise if you eventually swap it for a Clarke as it will prepare you for the extra noise of this machine.
> 
> Just on that ^^^ the other Clarke owners - is your machine really loud? I know nobody will be able to make the comparison as I'm the only one with both this and Silverline, but just a general opinion on the volume will give me an indication if mine's normal? Cheers


I've only had a quick go with mine but it is reasonably loud. I think it's the gears that transfer the rotaion through 90 degrees - the silverline is a different set up with diret drive so will be quieter. Maybe it needs a bit of use to bed in, but it doesn't look as if it's possible to dismantle & grease up.

Just need some good weather to have a proper go!:buffer:

Richard


----------



## reefer110

Pit Viper said:


> the Clarke a more higher pitched 'mechanical' noise very much just like an angle grinder?


That's exactly how I'd describe it:thumb:


----------



## VIPER

joe_0_1 said:


> Jam-roley poly, 97 pages!!! :doublesho
> 
> Could somebody kindly sum up this thread for me?Could do with a spare DA.
> 
> How much, where from, does it work, what pads?


We're working on (or will be very soon) an accompanying 'reference only' thread with all the important bits in without all the 'chat' posts


----------



## VIPER

reefer110 said:


> That's exactly how I'd describe it:thumb:


Good good, that means I've not got a dodgy one then, cheers mate :thumb: :thumb:

Great point there RJH - that's what it'll be then, you're right, the 90 degree gear mechanism


----------



## m411mtf

Gareth2665 said:


> Its all sorted now for m411mtf but for future reference with these kind of things heres a bit of advice:
> 
> Your contract / agreement was with Amazon not Silverline. You purchased the item from them not Silverline. Therefore if there is a fault within a reasonable time you are entitled by law to a full refund. You don't even have to have a replacement.
> 
> No matter what rubbish they give you about their Policy absolutely nothing exceeds the Sale Of Goods Act. If its not fit for purpose you get a refund. Its down to them then to send it to silverline for replacement.
> 
> Ive had this out out and always won my arguement, even with Cousins furniture store and Orange.
> Just for info
> 
> Gareth


Cheers for that. I was aware of my consumer rights but on this occasion, Amazon would not go any further until I had made an effort to contact the manufacturer. To be honest, I just couldn't be bothered to argue with them and I got what I wanted so all's well in the end! It might be worth noting that when I called Amazon, my call was transferred to some guy based in the US!


----------



## m411mtf

Pit Viper said:


> sorry, I meant to say I'm the only one with the silverline, clarke, a PC, G220, Flex and a cylco  :lol: :lol:
> 
> Seriously though, what do you make of the noise difference? Silverline, a lower pitched 'drone' and the Clarke a more higher pitched 'mechanical' noise very much just like an angle grinder?


Yes, it's very much like my angle grinder, maybe just a tad quieter. I'm not sure I would use it on a regular basis due to this. I'm not that keen to be honest so my mate is taking it off my hands for what I paid for it. I'll stick with my Silverline and Mac for the time being!


----------



## m411mtf

mazda3_daveg said:


> I think I've busted my Silverline
> 
> I opened it up today to fit a new 5m cable and it seemed to go fine. When I opened it up the carbon brushes popped out but I put them back in without any difficulty.
> 
> I sealed the thing back up and fired it up. It works fine but sounds very different. It sounds very 'clicky' and not as smooth before. I opened it back up to make sure both bushing were making good contact which they were.
> 
> Can't think of anything else? Everything seems to be in place and connected correctly. Any ideas anyone?


You could try cleaning the armature on the motor with a bit of meths. It looks quite marked from the brushes.


----------



## VIPER

m411mtf said:


> Yes, it's very much like my angle grinder, maybe just a tad quieter. I'm not sure I would use it on a regular basis due to this. I'm not that keen to be honest so my mate is taking it off my hands for what I paid for it. I'll stick with my Silverline and Mac for the time being!


I can totally understand that, as to do a full car and be using it all day would be annoying for the neighbours - not so bad if it can be done in the garage I suppose but outside not so much. Having said that, I've not had time yet to try mine with a pad on the car, only in free air with no load. There could be a slight damping effect when actually in use, although probably not enough to make a significant differnce. I'll post my findings on this, as always on here as and when


----------



## maersk

Yep, angle grinder type of noise due to the gear train but not LOUD -just different.


----------



## VIPER

maersk said:


> Yep, angle grinder type of noise due to the gear train but not LOUD -just different.


Mine's loud...hang on I'll switch it on for you - listen.....

see what I mean?

I SAID SEE WHAT I MEAN!!!!???

Hold on I'll switch it off. Right that's better - see what I mean...LOUD :lol: :lol:


----------



## PTAV

im interesting in buying one from screwfix - im a little scared about having a go! tbh! 
also another concern is the fact of finding some 5" pads  seem to be hard to find!


----------



## VIPER

PTAV said:


> im interesting in buying one from screwfix - im a little scared about having a go! tbh!
> also another concern is the fact of finding some 5" pads  seem to be hard to find!


what Paul's trying to say is does anyone have any of those black 3M pads from the group buy that they can sell him, please? (as I know some of you bought quite a few each to stock up and might now not need them?)


----------



## PTAV

^ free would be nice! lol

Also do people find they get much use out of there once they have done the car say once?!  i know at 20.00 its cheap but by the time you factor in pads/polish etc! it does add up a bit


----------



## bluenose

Pit Viper said:


> I can totally understand that, as to do a full car and be using it all day would be annoying for the neighbours - not so bad if it can be done in the garage I suppose but outside not so much.


Just out of interest how does the noise stack up to a G220 or PC?


----------



## maersk

Aint got either so can't compare.

BUT, I reckon its no louder than my Bosch Sander - as I said just different - slightly higher pitch due to the helical gears rather than diret drive.

:tumbleweed:


----------



## VIPER

bluenose said:


> Just out of interest how does the noise stack up to a G220 or PC?


Not sure to be perfectly honest, although as they both have a similar layout to the Clarke, I'd guess that they'd be pretty much on a par? I think it's fairly inevitable given the drive has to be turned though 90 degress so as maersk says, it's the gearing.

It's not as deafening as perhaps I've been making out in jest, but it's certainly no quieter than the Silverline...just 'different'


----------



## bluenose

Knew I'd find a use for my old Autoglym bag!:thumb:
Makes a perfect case for the Silverline, couple of polishes and pads /mf in the front..
Tidy!


----------



## Mattywatsit

bluenose said:


> Knew I'd find a use for my old Autoglym bag!:thumb:
> Makes a perfect case for the Silverline, couple of polishes and pads /mf in the front..
> Tidy!


That looks very smart with all of your kit in, nice one.

Regards,
Matthew :driver:


----------



## VIPER

bluenose said:


> Knew I'd find a use for my old Autoglym bag!:thumb:
> Makes a perfect case for the Silverline, couple of polishes and pads /mf in the front..
> Tidy!


Excellent - almost made for the job :thumb: :thumb:

Which has got me thinking, I'm sure I've got something similar I can adapt for the Clarke, if I can only remember where abouts in the loft it is amongst all the junk 

Cheers :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

Totally random post just so I can have the first one on page 100  :lol: :lol: (I'll be trying to bag post #1000 as well )

Er.. better think of something useful to justify it.......bugger - mind's a blank 

Only to say that weather / time permitting I'll be having a first play and comparison between the Silverline and Clarke at some point over the weekend - not the full monty review as I need some new pads and a few bits, but an initial 'mini' test


----------



## bluenose

Only a few more posts needed for the next milestone...:lol:


----------



## VIPER

It's mine, it's mine I tells ya...mwaahaahaa :devil: :lol:

(cue seven random posts to get to it..... LOL!)

Oh, go on then, someone else can have the honour


----------



## Mattywatsit

PV more pics of the Clarke are needed FTW!!! Cant wait for the review as it looks a good machine for the price, ive been putting off and putting off buying one until the official expert review was done. :buffer: This thread is now HUGE!!!! I am still gathering information about which machine (out of all talked about here) and what pads polish are recomended. Id also like to thank all of the contributers to the thread too.

Regards,
Matthew :car:


----------



## VIPER

Matthew there will hopefully soon be another 'side thread' to this one with all the important bits pulled out to ease quick reference so newbies to all this don't have to go wading through at least 100 pages to find anything out :thumb:


----------



## Mattywatsit

I Also forgot to say that i was in another B&Q today for Kitchen bits, although ended up looking at the Random Orbital sanders too as you do, and i noticed that the Triton, Mac, Power Performance and the De-walt ones all had 10% off in my store. I was very tempted il admit but decided to wait and see how good the Clarke is, im quite impressed with the correction that it has given on Lloyds Accord shown in the Machine Polishing Section. Also cant wait to see this new D.I.Y pad too. Its all goign on at the moment isnt it!! Decisions decisions!!!

Regards,
Matthew


----------



## VIPER

Just be careful of some of those machines in B&Q though as some of them have stratospheric operating speeds (and as such are best left to the purpose for which they were designed) - not all of them, but have a good read at the specs on a few - it's an eye opener


----------



## Mattywatsit

Thanks for that PV, i hadnt realised i just thought any Random Orbital sander would do as a polisher like the Silverline. The Clarke looks more like a polisher as does this Triton i found months ago and forgot to post up about, the problem is it doesnt include a lot of information on the advert!!!

http://www.tritontools.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=90

Thanks again PV & everyone on here.

Regards,
Matthew :buffer:


----------



## VIPER

Ah, so that's an adapter to fit onto a standard small angle grinder then is it? That's a whole new avenue to go down as this type of thing hasn't been looked at yet as far as I know. Interesting :thumb:

Just realised whoever replies to this gets the honour of being the 1000th poster on the thread, for which you win...


...the honour of being the 1000th poster on the thread :lol:


----------



## Mattywatsit

Im the 1000th poster woo!!!

EDIT: Now for a more serious post, seen as i won the honour 

I hadnt realised thats what it was, a good route to have a look down do you think PV? I spotted it a few weeks ago after a bit Random Orbital digging.  So is it a new fitting to go on a triton angle grinder then to change the speeds to be used as a sander do you rekon?

Me + Power Tools = Hopeless :tumbleweed:

Regards,
Matthew


----------



## VIPER

Mattywatsit said:


> Im the thousanth poster woo


Yeah congratulations (he says through gritted teeth :lol, kind of set that one up for you there  Well hands off the 2000th post I'm having that! (can't see it getting that far though).


----------



## VIPER

Mattywatsit said:


> Im the 1000th poster woo!!!
> 
> EDIT: Now for a more serious post, seen as i won the honour
> 
> I hadnt realised thats what it was, a good route to have a look down do you think PV? I spotted it a few weeks ago after a bit Random Orbital digging.  So is it a new fitting to go on a triton angle grinder then to change the speeds to be used as a sander do you rekon?
> 
> Me + Power Tools = Hopeless :tumbleweed:
> 
> Regards,
> Matthew


Reads to me like it fits any 100 or 115 mm grinder. I don't think it changes the speed though, just introduces some kind of counterbalanced / counterweighted shaft that gives the rotation a random orbit? Hard to say for sure as like you say, the descriptions a bit vague.


----------



## Mattywatsit

You got the 1001'st post dude stop camplaining 

We should really stop spamming this post shouldnt we :lol:

More on topic - Good luck with getting the weather this weekend to do the mini comparison test between the Silverline DA and your new Clarke DA. 

Regards,
Matthew
*1000'st poster in 'Alternitive orbital polisher thread'*


----------



## VIPER

Mattywatsit said:


> You got the 1001'st post dude stop camplaining
> 
> *We should really stop spamming this post shouldnt we *:lol:
> 
> More on topic - Good luck with getting the weather this weekend to do the mini comparison test between the Silverline DA and your new Clarke DA.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthew
> *1000'st poster in 'Alternitive orbital polisher thread'*


Well _you_ should, I've earned the right to do what I like  :lol:

Cheers, mate - logging off now


----------



## Step_7

Finally got a chance to play with the B&Q MAC polisher today - using a 3M finishing pad (the cheapo eBay ones  ) and some SSR2.5. These scratches on the rear quarter panel of my MINI have been bothering me since I bought the car..... Not any more! 

Not great pictures but best I can do for now:

Before









After









Then started to go over the rest of the car with SSR1 as it didn't really need much more, only light swirls that I couldn't photograph - only got one side done before rain stopped play  but VERY happy with the results so far!  So glad I discovered this thread before spashing out bundles of cash on a G220! :buffer: :thumb:


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Nice correction, great to see what can be done with an inexpensive machine :thumb:


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

Mattywatsit said:


> I Also forgot to say that i was in another B&Q today for Kitchen bits, although ended up looking at the Random Orbital sanders too as you do, and i noticed that the Triton, Mac, Power Performance and the De-walt ones all had 10% off in my store. I was very tempted il admit but decided to wait and see how good the Clarke is, im quite impressed with the correction that it has given on Lloyds Accord shown in the Machine Polishing Section. Also cant wait to see this new D.I.Y pad too. Its all goign on at the moment isnt it!! Decisions decisions!!!
> 
> Regards,
> Matthew


The only 2 to get in B&Q are the MAC and the Performance tools ones, any other is to powerfull for polishing


----------



## KingdomTools

*Silverline Polisher Guarantee*

Just a little note for anybody that has bought the Silverline Polisher as you are aware the product comes with a 3 year Guarantee, but this will only be a 3 year Guarantee if the product has been registered. If you do not register the product the Guarantee will only be 1 year and not the full 3 years.
I have added a link to the page, although the link is to the Kingdom Tools website you do not have to of purchased this from Kingdom as the link on the page will direct you to the Silverline Guarantee page.

http://www.kingdomtools.co.uk/company/guarantee.html

Hope this is of help

Cheers
KT


----------



## mazda3_daveg

KingdomTools said:


> Just a little note for anybody that has bought the Silverline Polisher as you are aware the product comes with a 3 year Guarantee, but this will only be a 3 year Guarantee if the product has been registered.


Wow, I wish I could press the thank you button twice. This post need to be some kind of a forum notice so all Silverline power tool owners can register for the full three year guarantee.


----------



## VIPER

Excellent work there, step 7 :thumb: :thumb: Pleased you're getting great results with your machine, mate. Car looks nice and I love the wheels  - any more pics on the site anywhere?

Just a quick note in general to the peeps of this thread - I can't see me getting anything done review wise this weekend as the weather's rubbish  Not a lot I can do unfortunately. As soon as I get the opportunity I'll make a start on the comparison - assuming mother nature gives us all a break that is


----------



## bidderman1969

we've had about 3o mins of good weather today so far, lol


----------



## VIPER

You lucky devil!! :lol: :lol: Hope you made the most of it.

We've had about the same, but not all together more like 30 seperate spells of 1 minute when it wasn't raining


----------



## Mattywatsit

Weve only had rain for ten minutes earlier today, and 11 degrees so its all good, however no time to clean the car 

Regards,
Matthew


----------



## VIPER

Just the opposite here - plenty of time just [email protected] weather . Nevermind at least we had a good summer to look back on....oh, hang on, that's not right is it?


----------



## Step_7

Pit Viper said:


> Car looks nice and I love the wheels  - any more pics on the site anywhere?


Thanks for that  - no proper pictures on here yet, but loads on my Flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/niallsimpson/sets/72157604921422889/


----------



## VIPER

Step_7 said:


> Thanks for that  - no proper pictures on here yet, but loads on my Flickr.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/niallsimpson/sets/72157604921422889/


Had a look through those - looks lovely :thumb: (Like the 'squashed' one as well, bet that'd be easy to park )

Still raining here this afternoon folks and I was watching the remembrance service and parade this morning so no chance of starting the Clarke review today unfortunately as I'd planned  Bloody weather


----------



## joe_0_1

PV, have you still not summed up this thread for me?    

Come on, you have nothing else to do


----------



## VIPER

joe_0_1 said:


> PV, have you still not summed up this thread for me?
> 
> Come on, you have nothing else to do


I'm not actually doing personally, I'm only helping on request - Mother Goose is doing it. 

I think the plan was to do it when I've done the review of the Clarke, but I don't know when that will be with the weather at the moment, but there's no reason why he can't start it and assemble all the bits apart from the Clarke review and it can then be added on at the end when I've done it. You'll have to PM him and see how it's going I suppose?


----------



## maersk

Been quite nice and dry here all day................:buffer:

..............until now! 

:thumb:


----------



## GeeJay

Just a little update to my 'custom backing plate' idea. I bought the foam pad from screwfix, and was wincing as i put a stanley blade to it. Ah well - all for the greater good I thought. Then I realised that the red 'metal' bit was in fact plastic. Also, the holes on the polisher are actually quite close, and have to be drilled in the cone of the red plastic. 
Here are a few pics, but i think a few changes are in order (but i can still use this current piece in my modification - watch this space!)

Pad, next to the removed silverline backing plate and M14x50mm bolt:









Plastic plate removed:









Offered up against the silverline, bolt head trimmed, and screwed in, ready to accept a 3m backing plate etc:


----------



## VIPER

Excellent and ingenius idea there, mate :thumb: Have you tried it yet then or don't you have any pads yet? (you've also gained a really chunky hand foam applicator into the bargain :lol


----------



## GeeJay

:lol: @ chunky hand foam applicator! My blue SP has seen better days, so I might tear the velcro off of the back of that and super glue it to that foam pad for true 'budget' polishing :lol::lol:

I haven't tried it yet mate. I need either longer screws or a different mounting idea, as the holes I have drilled to meet the existing screw holes in the Silverline are in the 'coned' part, and a bit pants to screw into. 

I'll draw up my second idea...


----------



## GeeJay

Here's the second idea, and given the 'bell' shape of the red plastic, it allows for the initial mounting of the metal plate to the silverline, and the red bell to sit over the screw heads


----------



## mazda3_daveg

GeeJay said:


> Here's the second idea, and given the 'bell' shape of the red plastic, it allows for the initial mounting of the metal plate to the silverline, and the red bell to sit over the screw heads


How about drilling the screw holes with the correct diameter drill and then drilling oversize channels for the heads to sit in? Might be a bit fiddly but it saves the need for the additional metal sheet.

If you have a piece of metal the right size I can see that being the preffered method but cutting an even circle must be pretty tricky.


----------



## GeeJay

mazda3_daveg said:


> How about drilling the screw holes with the correct diameter drill and then drilling oversize channels for the heads to sit in? Might be a bit fiddly but it saves the need for the additional metal sheet.
> 
> If you have a piece of metal the right size I can see that being the preffered method but cutting an even circle must be pretty tricky.


It's a good idea there mate, but the bell itself is hollow  I've got pictures on my camera, but it's not on me at the moment


----------



## VIPER

Well , I turn my back for five minutes and you 2 are devising all sorts of stuff :lol: :lol: 

Is this going to be permantly fixed to the machine then or is it removable via the 4 screws though access holes in the the red bell shaped section to the backing plate?

The only thing that's immediately struck me is the 'screws' fixing the metal plate to the red bell - I take it you meant a nut and bolt rather than a screw so what will the clearance be like bewteen the nylock nut on the underside and the body of the machine? What about pop rivetting it instead?


----------



## GeeJay

Um, using the second metal plate idea, you'll have to remove the nut and bolt holding the 'bell' to the metal plate (not a screw, as pictured) 

It still needs some experimental work, but I'll work it out


----------



## mazda3_daveg

GeeJay said:


> It's a good idea there mate, but the bell itself is hollow  I've got pictures on my camera, but it's not on me at the moment


Ah ok, thats out the window then!



Pit Viper said:


> The only thing that's immediately struck me is the 'screws' fixing the metal plate to the red bell - I take it you meant a nut and bolt rather than a screw so what will the clearance be like bewteen the nylock nut on the underside and the body of the machine? What about pop rivetting it instead?


You could use a metal plate of suitable thickness and countersunk screw heads to resolve this issue.


----------



## VIPER

Just using a screw into metal, regardless of the thickness would still work loose in this application though as what's holding the screw into the metal other than 'tightness'? If the hole's drilled in it suitably small enough, the screw is going to struggle to cut it's own thread, unless the plate was aluminium, and even if it did, it the vibrations of the machine in action would work them loose. It needs to be nylock nut & bolted or rivetted to withstand the speeds and vibrations


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> Just using a screw into metal, regardless of the thickness would still work loose in this application though as what's holding the screw into the metal other than 'tightness'? If the hole's drilled in it suitably small enough, the screw is going to struggle to cut it's own thread, unless the plate was aluminium, and even if it did, it the vibrations of the machine in action would work them loose. It needs to be nylock nut & bolted or rivetted to withstand the speeds and vibrations


Right then - we're going for rivets through both layers, and drilling 'access' holes in the bell shape, so it'll still be a simple 4 screw on/off change (but you shouldn't ever need to take it off, if you've got m14 backing plates)

Now to find a suitable 'circle' of metal. All I've found so far is a Colly tin lid


----------



## VIPER

B&Q do sheet metal and the smallest size is 250 x 500mm. They do all sorts of types:- Ally, galvanised steel etc. and in various thicknesses including suitably thick for cutting this plate out of. Not cheap mind you and don't expect to get much change out of a tenner. 

Just thought, does it have to be metal? Couldn't it be plastic at about 3mm thick - easier to cut and work with and lighter so as not to affect the machine's orbital speed in any way (although I don't think a metal one would really).

something along the lines of this? :-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Black-ABS-Pla...14&_trkparms=72:1121|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318

or this (to match the colour of the Silverline  :-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ORANGE-3MM-AC...14&_trkparms=72:1121|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318


----------



## GeeJay

Pit Viper said:


> B&Q do sheet metal and the smallest size is 250 x 500mm. They do all sorts of types:- Ally, galvanised steel etc. and in various thicknesses including suitably thick for cutting this plate out of. Not cheap mind you and don't expect to get much change out of a tenner.
> 
> Just thought, does it have to be metal? Couldn't it be plastic at about 3mm thick - easier to cut and work with and lighter so as not to affect the machine's orbital speed in any way (although I don't think a metal one would really).
> 
> something along the lines of this? :-
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Black-ABS-Pla...14&_trkparms=72:1121|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318
> 
> or this (to match the colour of the Silverline  :-
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ORANGE-3MM-AC...14&_trkparms=72:1121|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318


Good point about the plastic there, I did consider plastic (in fact, 3 stacked cd's!) but was worried about flex, and them cracking when applying pressure.

I think 3 cd's and rivets COULD be a good tester to see if plastic would suffice...watch this space for GHETTO backing plate goodness :lol::lol:


----------



## VIPER

I think CDs would shatter tbh. but test it by all means, I might be wrong 

Anyway, logging off now as the site gets shut down for 2 minutes at 11:00


----------



## Step_7

Pit Viper said:


> Just using a screw into metal, regardless of the thickness would still work loose in this application though as what's holding the screw into the metal other than 'tightness'?


If you were to drill and tap the plate it would provide plenty of hold with small bolts as long as the plate is thick and strong enough - stud lock could be used to ensure they didn't fall out but shouldn't be necessary if torqued correctly. Of course you need access to a set of taps which might not be handy.


----------



## VIPER

Step_7 said:


> If you were to drill and tap the plate it would provide plenty of hold with small bolts as long as the plate is thick and strong enough - stud lock could be used to ensure they didn't fall out but shouldn't be necessary if torqued correctly. Of course you need access to a set of taps which might not be handy.


True, but I'd still be wary of them eventually working loose, even with lock on the threads. To provide enough thickness and enough length of thread for any bolt to get sufficient hold onto, what would you say was the minimum thickness the plate would need to be? I'd say 5 mm so it would really need to be aluminium as a steel plate that thickness would, I'd imagine be heavy enough to adversly affect the performance of the Silverline. Plastic at 5mm would be okay, but would a set screw or whatever was used, have enough hold into plastic?


----------



## Mattywatsit

Hi everyone, whilst looking through the Screwfix website (i was actually looking for the Clarke DA as i wanted to know the price again, but then suddenly realised i should have been on Machine Marts website!!! Doh, however this is beside the point) i have just found this random orbital sander that looks a lot like the Silverline DA but blue!! and wondered if it was another option?

heres the one im talking about:
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/89945/Power-Tools/Sanders/Erbauer-ERB300XP-Random-Orbit-Sander-300W

Comments on a postcard,

Cheers people,

Regards,
Matthew


----------



## VIPER

Pretty much the same specs as the silverline apart from the power - 300w vs 450w, but apart from that, not a lot of difference. Could be another viable option :thumb:

Wish I could get cracking playing with the Clarke, but weather doesn't want me to


----------



## Mattywatsit

Thanks for that PV, another two questions if you dont mind ofcourse, where did the 3M pads on ebay dissapear to? :tumbleweed: and what size pads does the Clarke take?

Thanks again,

Regards,
Matthew


----------



## VIPER

Mattywatsit said:


> Thanks for that PV, another two questions if you dont mind ofcourse, where did the 3M pads on ebay dissapear to? :tumbleweed: and what size pads does the Clarke take?
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Regards,
> Matthew


Course I don't mind, Matthew- that's what I'm here for :thumb:

Not sure on the pads, mate - just seemed to dry up and the group buy also cleared a lot of them. They are still available on the odd site, but always at a ridiculous price which they don't warrant. Pity really as they were a great universal pad that could be used with medium polishes like Menzerna Intensive, Megs #83 and Poorboys SSR2 etc. giving good correction, but also soft enough with the milder 'finishing' polishes as well. Shame.

The Clarke will take the 150 - 165mm pads (which covers just about all the major brands) as the back plate is 150 although I might be trimming the excess off up to the plastic part to make it more like just under 140mm so that when a 150 pad is used there is at least some clearance. In addition to this I may well purchase another spare backing plate directly from Clarke at some point in the future and cut this down with a jigsaw to about 90mm so it can be used with a spot pad.


----------



## Mattywatsit

Thanks again mate, i was looking at the Kestrel but i cant warrant the extra £40 for the Kestrel in comparison to the Clarke when like you say, you could even make a smaller backing plate to take spot pads!!! I would be interested to see if the new backing plate would work as it would make the machine ideal as it is i am just wanting to sort our poor kia's paint work out so the bigger backing plate would suffice for now. Polish wise, im looking into the Poorboys SS range as they look good alround polishes for as the name suggests swirl removal. However im still stuck with which pads to look at, i can post a picture up of the Kia's swirly paint again if it would help.

Thanks again,

Regards,
Matthew :car:


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Mattywatsit said:


> Thanks for that PV, another two questions if you dont mind ofcourse, where did the 3M pads on ebay dissapear to?


This is the seller, he has had a couple of batches so might be worth sending a PM in case he can get some more:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/member.php?u=1079


----------



## Mattywatsit

Thanks for that Dave, i may just drop him a pm later, ta mate. :buffer:

Regards,
Matthew


----------



## VIPER

Post it up, Matthew by all means but I need to go now so I'm logging off after this post for tonight. I'll have a butchers tomorrow, but someone else can probably evaluate it and recommend something before I see it in the morning?

With regards to the backing plate - if you look at my pics on page 92, you'll see the backing plate plastic part is smaller than the dense sponge bit which has the velco on (black part) and that bit tapers out. It's this that I propose trimming back slightly to reduce the overall size of it by at least 10mm and hopefully reduce the risk of the velcro eating away at the edges of pads which don't have a felt backing all the way to the edge - some do, some don't.


----------



## Mattywatsit

Thanks again PV for the help, i have uploaded a couple of pictures below of the Swirls in the Kia's paint, all the swirls were caused by previous owner  anyway i would like to sort them out. Heres the picture:

Do excuse the awfull pics, the car was quite dirty when i took them so the speckles are probally surface dirt.



















Regards,
Matthew


----------



## VIPER

Looking at those pics if you were going along the Poorboys SSR route as you mentioned, I'd suggest SSR2.5 to correct and then follow up with SSR1 to refine and burnish to a gloss ready for the LSP. In an ideal scenario if you had all three (2.5, 2 & 1) It would be worth a try with the 2 on it's own as there's a chance it could probably do it and you wouldn't need to follow with anything (although a quick pass over with SSR1 would really sharpen the reflections and improve the gloss even further). But if SSR2 didn't quite correct fully you'd have the 2.5 > 1 combo to fall back on.

Thinking about it as I write this, a good way to be able to do what I've suggested is get this sample pack which gives you the whole range of SSRs and then you're covered:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/POORBOYS-WORL...14&_trkparms=72:1121|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

Just ordered one of them! lol


----------



## VIPER

Mother-Goose said:


> Just ordered one of them! lol


Nice one :thumb: I know 100ml doesn't sound a lot for each bottle but it's amazing how far it goes. I had a 100ml bottle of SSR2 ages ago before I got a full size one (from the same seller actaully), and it lasted for way longer than I thought it would.

(Oh, btw. I'm about half way through the thread noting down posts to go in the new one - how you doing?)


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

Thats what I thought too Pit, I'll be able to see how each one works and what one I'll need to get a bigger bottle(s) of. Good find, thanks for that, I've added the seller as a favourite.

I'm probably about a third of the way through, got alot of work this week which is slowing down progress lol might just stretch lunch out a bit


----------



## gardian

Step_7 said:


> Finally got a chance to play with the B&Q MAC polisher today - using a 3M finishing pad (the cheapo eBay ones  ) and some SSR2.5. These scratches on the rear quarter panel of my MINI have been bothering me since I bought the car..... Not any more!
> 
> Not great pictures but best I can do for now:
> 
> Before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then started to go over the rest of the car with SSR1 as it didn't really need much more, only light swirls that I couldn't photograph - only got one side done before rain stopped play  but VERY happy with the results so far!  So glad I discovered this thread before spashing out bundles of cash on a G220! :buffer: :thumb:


Hi mate, could you tell me how you worked the polish with the MAC please?

I have one and i was using some Sonus but didnt get anywhere near the correction of yours, (car looks ace BTW!!)

I think that I was trying ot do a larger part than i should have been, but if you can gove me any pointers that would be great!

Thanks

Ian


----------



## VIPER

Which Sonus polish was it Ian, and what pad? 

Machines of this type (silverline, Mac, Triton etc.) only have a very small throw to the offset so generally require longer to work and break down polishes than would something with a bigger throw (the Clarke DA, or any of the specialist polishers). As such the polishes that typically have a longer working 'window' like the Menzerna, Megs and in my experience with them, the SSR range tend to perform better with these machines. 

Without knowing your technique it's hard to make a call on what you're doing wrong but try and keep to a working area or about 1-2 square feet and don't be afraid to apply a fair bit of pressure - don't go mad obviously, but you need to have a reasonable amount to get the pad/polish working at its optimum. When you're using it, how fast is the pad rotating on the panel, and how fast are you moving it across the working area?

If you post up a bit more info about the polish, the pad and how you're using it I can diagnose it a bit better


----------



## Mattywatsit

Thanks again PV, especially for finding them sample bottles they look ideal, however if you seen the size of the kia that i intend to work on after buying a DA i might need two sets of samples!!!! I saw a pack somewhere with SSR1 SSr2 & SSR2.5 all in for cheaper than buying them seperatly but i cant remember where it was now.  Thanks again for your help mate.

Regards,
Matthew :detailer:


----------



## VIPER

Mattywatsit said:


> Thanks again PV, especially for finding them sample bottles they look ideal, however if you seen the size of the kia that i intend to work on after buying a DA i might need two sets of samples!!!! I saw a pack somewhere with SSR1 SSr2 & SSR2.5 all in for cheaper than buying them seperatly but i cant remember where it was now.  Thanks again for your help mate.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthew :detailer:


I still think you'll do it with one set, Matthew - you only need a few spots on the pad per panel, although granted as you're in a 'learning' stage so to speak and experimenting, you'll probably tend to use a bit more than normal.


----------



## Mattywatsit

Thanks PV ive found the kit i was thinking about here:

http://www.seriousperformance.co.uk/Products,74,toView_236.html

Regards,
Matthew :wave:


----------



## VIPER

Mattywatsit said:


> Thanks PV ive found the kit i was thinking about here:
> 
> http://www.seriousperformance.co.uk/Products,74,toView_236.html
> 
> Regards,
> Matthew :wave:


Was just about to post that up as I remembered it was Alex's site that I'd seen it on before. Great kit that as I doubt you'd have used the SSR3 anyway on your car, plus you get the 'polish with sealant' as well, which if the other one ('polish with carnauba', that I use A LOT) is anything to go by, it's a really nice and easy to use non abrasive paintwork cleaner with added protection qualities :thumb:


----------



## Mattywatsit

So would you say its a good price for what you get in the kit??

Thanks,
Matthew


----------



## VIPER

Mattywatsit said:


> So would you say its a good price for what you get in the kit??
> 
> Thanks,
> Matthew


Yes, based on an average of about £10-12 for each one indivdually (and then only one lot of P&P), definitely :thumb:


----------



## RJH

Pit Viper said:


> With regards to the backing plate - if you look at my pics on page 92, you'll see the backing plate plastic part is smaller than the dense sponge bit which has the velco on (black part) and that bit tapers out. It's this that I propose trimming back slightly to reduce the overall size of it by at least 10mm and hopefully reduce the risk of the velcro eating away at the edges of pads which don't have a felt backing all the way to the edge - some do, some don't.


That's what I've done to mine. It trims down with a pair of decent scissors and gives a bit of clearance.

Having had a bit of a play with mine I'd say:

- it's pretty loud, not helped by working in a confined garage.

- it's pretty powerful, not struggling to spin either cutting or polishing pads even applying pressure

- it's easy to handle, I used my left hand on the trigger with my right on the d handle

- it needs a longer cable, the short one it comes with is a real PITA

- i didn't really notice any problems with vibration through my hands although I wasn't on that long

- i set the speed to the lowest setting, used the trigger lock then turned the speed control knob round once the polish had been spread. I'm going to put some markings on the side of the speed control to make it easier to judge when i'm adjusting it mid-polish

I just need a bit more practise now :buffer:

Richard


----------



## _daveR

How are people finding the bulky machines and 5" pads for working on "nooks and cranies" on cars? 

I've got a few swirls on the megane now so am tempted to have a crack this weekend.


----------



## GeeJay

_daveR said:


> How are people finding the bulky machines and 5" pads for working on "nooks and cranies" on cars?
> 
> I've got a few swirls on the megane now so am tempted to have a crack this weekend.


there's only one place on my car I can't get 'into' and that's on the rear engine cover, where the rear brake light protrudes...i can't get perfectly into the corners, but going over by hand with a small cut of old foam pad works just fine 

Aerial view here, I cant get into the corner below the dashes --> /----\


----------



## VIPER

RJH said:


> That's what I've done to mine. It trims down with a pair of decent scissors and gives a bit of clearance.
> 
> Having had a bit of a play with mine I'd say:
> 
> - it's pretty loud, not helped by working in a confined garage.
> 
> - it's pretty powerful, not struggling to spin either cutting or polishing pads even applying pressure
> 
> - it's easy to handle, I used my left hand on the trigger with my right on the d handle
> 
> - it needs a longer cable, the short one it comes with is a real PITA
> 
> - i didn't really notice any problems with vibration through my hands although I wasn't on that long
> 
> - i set the speed to the lowest setting, used the trigger lock then turned the speed control knob round once the polish had been spread. I'm going to put some markings on the side of the speed control to make it easier to judge when i'm adjusting it mid-polish
> 
> I just need a bit more practise now :buffer:
> 
> Richard


Agree on all points there, Richard :thumb: Although I haven't used it in 'anger' yet - (Grrrr, Argghhh, f**kin polish you bleedin thing, Grrrr!!! :lol I've only had a little (dry pad) play on the side of the freezer in the garage, as I can't get a decent weather spell to do anything outside (+ my o/s electric window is playing up on the Puma so I've got that to fix first chance I get before I start doing anything with the Clarke), anyway, I'm rambling on. 
It's immediately obvious that the machine will work the polishes better and faster than the Silverline due to the increased size of the throw. Just putting a pad on both machines and bringing them to a stop with your hand, it's really noticable that the Clarke's pad is doing more 'work' for want of a better expression and will, in threory, break down polishes faster. Proof of this will come when I actually get to have a proper go with it if I don't die of old age first .


----------



## dantiatto

Pit Viper said:


> Proof of this will come when I actually get to have a proper go with it if I don't die of old age first .


yup, it's not like the _"great"_ british weather to ruin all our fun is it?

admin, please can we have a smiley of a bloke with a silverline in his hand shaking his fist at god?


----------



## Mattywatsit

dantiatto said:


> yup, it's not like the _"great"_ british weather to ruin all our fun is it?
> 
> admin, please can we have a smiley of a bloke with a silverline in his hand shaking his fist at god?


As requested (althought im not admin  )










:tumbleweed:

Regards,
Matthew :buffer:


----------



## Step_7

Very good - but should it not have a Clarke as well.... :lol:


----------



## Mattywatsit

Step_7 said:


> Very good - but should it not have a Clarke as well.... :lol:


Thanks for that, Clarke added on the image below. :thumb::buffer:










Regards,
Matthew :detailer:


----------



## Step_7

I think I've just found a really simple way of adding standard backing plates to my MAC polisher! 

Originally I thought the backing plate was held on by 4 screws but on closer examination I found that it is actually held on by a single socket head bolt. 

This is just a standard M8 thread and I just needed to convert this to M14. So, simple solution, weld 2 bolts together back to back! (Excuse the welding - not my strong point really!) :thumb: Oh, and sorry about the pictures - camera phone.... 

Now just screw this in in place of the standard bolt. I kept the standard backing plate on so that I have something to hold to stop the motor turning when undoing the adaptor.

Just placed an order with SP for a backing plate and a couple of pads so i'll see how it goes when they arrive. Might need to shorten the thread a bit but it only took a few minutes to weld up so easy enough to experiment with alternative setups when I get the actual plate.

I just love nightshifts..... they can be so productive when you aren't actually working........ :lol:


----------



## GeeJay

^^ Great idea there! I never thought of removing that, as it's what holds in the bearing.

Can't wait to hear how it works!


----------



## Step_7

GeeJay said:


> ^^ Great idea there! I never thought of removing that, as it's what holds in the bearing.
> 
> Can't wait to hear how it works!


The Silverline may be different! On the MAC that bolt only holds the backing plate on so this may not work for other machines. :thumb:


----------



## Step_7

gardian said:


> Hi mate, could you tell me how you worked the polish with the MAC please?
> 
> I have one and i was using some Sonus but didnt get anywhere near the correction of yours, (car looks ace BTW!!)
> 
> I think that I was trying ot do a larger part than i should have been, but if you can gove me any pointers that would be great!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ian


Sorry for missing this.... 

I was working on a very small area at a time with the machine, probably no more than a foot square. I spread the polish with the machine on its slowest setting and then moved up to about 3 or 4 on the speed control as that gave me the best rotation of the pad for the pressure I was using. I went over the area for about 10 minutes with the SSR2 before it had gone clearish. This was only my first attempt at machine polishing but I just followed the good advice on this thread and DaveKG's guide.


----------



## VIPER

^^^ I wouldn't worry about missing it, I don't think he's been on this thread since as I got no response to my reply? :tumbleweed:


----------



## Mattywatsit

The weather looks alright for this weekend PV, you never know you may just get to have a play with the Clarke. Im currently doing a pad comparison to decide which pads to buy, my mind is already made up upon polish and machine. Thanks again for all of your help in this HUGE thread.

Regards,
Matthew


----------



## VIPER

Depends on how I get on fixing my passenger side elecric window on the Puma as to how much time I get to have a play with the Clarke :thumb:

New accopmanying 'reference' thread on it's way soon...watch this space 

Be interested in the findings of your pas test :thumb:

Cheers Mathew


----------



## GlenStaff26

Woohoo

Decided to go ahead and get the Clarke, coincided with a trip to the office (Wetherby) so stopped off at sunny Barnsley on the way up. 

Ordered some pads from Serious Performance, which I really hope arrive tomorrow so I can have a play over the weekend. 

Just wanted to say a quick thanks to all those that have contributed to this thread, it has been a massive help!

Cheers
Glen (Formerly Detail Doctor, until I found out there was already one on here!)


----------



## Mattywatsit

PV you have a pm mate.

Glen, out of interest which pads have you bought for use with the Clarke? Im currently looking at all of the pads on offer and im soo undecided, and thought your input may benefit me.

Thanks again all,

Regards,
Matthew


----------



## maersk

I use Lake Country, Sonus DAS and Menz. All are good and effective. :thumb:


----------



## Mattywatsit

maersk said:


> I use Lake Country, Sonus DAS and Menz. All are good and effective. :thumb:


Thanks for that, the Lake Country ones look good value for money and ive heard good things about the Sonus pads. Where did you get the Menz pads from as i havent found any that fit that Clarke properly yet...

Thanks again,
Regards,
Matthew :buffer:


----------



## VIPER

Mattywatsit said:


> PV you have a pm mate.
> 
> Glen, out of interest which pads have you bought for use with the Clarke? Im currently looking at all of the pads on offer and im soo undecided, and thought your input may benefit me.
> 
> Thanks again all,
> 
> Regards,
> Matthew


Received and answered, Matthew :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

Mattywatsit said:


> Thanks for that, the Lake Country ones look good value for money and ive heard good things about the Sonus pads. Where did you get the Menz pads from *as i havent found any that fit that Clarke properly yet..*.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Regards,
> Matthew :buffer:


Don't quite follow there, what do you mean you can't find any that fit? Any pad will fit, surely from a 135mm Menz orange to 165mm Meguiars. (granted the backing plate ideally needs the taper edge trimming off - which I've done making it now 130mm for the smaller pads - but I can't really understand what you mean?


----------



## Mattywatsit

Hi PV, I thought for the Clarke a pad had to be 150mm at the smallest which is why i ruled the Menz pads out originally, however it doesnt sound as though thats the case...

Regards,
Matthew


----------



## VIPER

Mattywatsit said:


> Hi PV, I thought for the Clarke a pad had to be 150mm at the smallest which is why i ruled the Menz pads out originally, however it doesnt sound as though thats the case...
> 
> Regards,
> Matthew


Well a 60 second mod trimming the plate down to the size of the hard plastic part as I've said, makes it 130mm so then technically speaking anthing from the 135mm Menzerna pads upwards will be fine. I'll most likely be using 150mm ones with mine :thumb:


----------



## Mattywatsit

Thanks again PV, i understand a little better now. What did you use to cut the backing plate down as it sounds like what i will do...

Regards,
Matthew :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

Mattywatsit said:


> Thanks again PV, i understand a little better now. What did you use to cut the backing plate down as it sounds like what i will do...
> 
> Regards,
> Matthew :thumb:


One of those extendable 'snap off blade' stanley knives. cuts easily as it's only dense foam with the velco on and you've got the hard plastic backing part to use as a guide. It's easier to do it off the machine though, so I'd advise removing it before cutting.

Also for anyone thinking about ordering a spare backing plate from Clarke with the intention of cutting it right down to accept a small spot pad, you'll also need to remove the whole plastic dust extraction moulding which is it 2 parts otherwise it will hamper your access and might foul the car in tight areas. I've left mine on for the time being as I don't need a spot pad at the moment.


----------



## Mattywatsit

Pit Viper said:


> One of those extendable 'snap off blade' stanley knives. cuts easily as it's only dense foam with the velco on and you've got the hard plastic backing part to use as a guide. It's easier to do it off the machine though, so I'd advise removing it before cutting.
> 
> Also for anyone thinking about ordering a spare backing plate from Clarke with the intention of cutting it right down to accept a small spot pad, you'll also need to remove the whole plastic dust extraction moulding which is it 2 parts otherwise it will hamper your access and might foul the car in tight areas. I've left mine on for the time being as I don't need a spot pad at the moment.


Ah thanks again for that PV, i hadnt thought about that il drop you a pm in a couple of minutes about spot pads again. Cutting the original backing plate down to size sounds benefitial. Thanks again.

Regards,
Matthew :buffer:


----------



## VIPER

Er, what the hell's happened to this nice dry weekend we were supposed to be getting? Got up this morning, looked out of the window and its bloody raining here!  

Met office?  USELESS!!! 

Just a little update, but a quite important one - Just been having a little initial play with the Clarke in the garage, not a proper test or comparison yet as I need to be outside for that, just a quick trial and I have say I'm a bit disappointed tbh. The machine works, there's no problem there, but just not as well as I was hoping it would. It's no quicker to break down the polish than the Silverline is which I'm quite surprised at with it having a larger offset and it's deafening in use (my ears are still ringing). Given the choice between the 2 machines at this initial stage I'd go for the Silverline as it does everything equally as well for less than half the price. But don't read too much into this yet as I might have a different view when I do proper evaluation with some new pads. Just thought I'd post my first reaction to it.


----------



## Mattywatsit

Pit Viper said:


> Er, what the hell's happened to this nice dry weekend we were supposed to be getting? Got up this morning, looked out of the window and its bloody raining here!
> 
> Met office?  USELESS!!!
> 
> Just a little update, but a quite important one - Just been having a little initial play with the Clarke in the garage, not a proper test or comparison yet as I need to be outside for that, just a quick trial and I have say I'm a bit disappointed tbh. The machine works, there's no problem there, but just not as well as I was hoping it would. It's no quicker to break down the polish than the Silverline is which I'm quite surprised at with it having a larger offset and it's deafening in use (my ears are still ringing). Given the choice between the 2 machines at this initial stage I'd go for the Silverline as it does everything equally as well for less than half the price. But don't read too much into this yet as I might have a different view when I do proper evaluation with some new pads. Just thought I'd post my first reaction to it.


Oh dang!! That doesnt sound too good, im now very unsure what to go for, lets hope your feelings for it change when you give the machine a proper test ey? Also sorry to say we have lovely sunny weather here with temperatures that arent too bad . You might want to by a pack of these :thumb:.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-pairs-FOAM...14&_trkparms=72:1345|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318

Regards,
Matthew :buffer:


----------



## VIPER

I don't want anyone to misunderstand me here about the Clarke - it's not a poor performing machine, it's just that on my initial test I couldn't see where it was outperforming the Silverline. It's really in the speed of correction and ability to work polish properly to avoid hazing and micromarring and I was expecting the Clarke to break down the polish in half the time of the cheaper machine, but it just didn't. I'm getting some new pads very soon and maybe my SP pads are past their best, so I'll keep and open mind until I have another better try with it.


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Nice to hear you are giving a good unbiased review - not some "it must be better since it's more expensive and specification X is bigger on paper".

I look forward to seeing you have a good play with it. Interesting to hear how any ergonmonics and weight differences effect ease of use when doing a whole car.


----------



## VIPER

I've got a feeling that it's more my 'past their best' pads than the machine tbh. and I'm expecting far better results when I get some new ones very soon. 

As far as ergonomics go, although I haven't done anything like a full car yet, initial impressions is that it's far nicer to hold and use than the Silverline and feels better 'balanced' where the other machine, being tall, can feel a bit top heavy on horizontal panels. It's also easy to use with one hand, just gripping around the main body of the unit which isn't really a good idea with the Silverline for anyone who's tried that as it just rocks about too much.

In common with the cheaper machine the cable also isn't long enough though.


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

Good stuff there PV.

If it gives the same performance as the silverline but is actually easier to use, I'd be sold on it, the CoG is just a bit too high on the Silverline imo, but it's not un-useable obviously.

As for the noise, ear plugs are a god send!


----------



## VIPER

I'd seriously consider using plugs next time, although to be fair, I was in a garage so the sound is contained - maybe outside it wouldn't be so bad. I really don't know why they have to be so loud? I'm sure a G220 or PC isn't this loud and they use the same basic layout of the motor positioned horizontally and the drive turned through 90 degrees to spin the plate?


----------



## Mattywatsit

Thanks again PV for the latest installments on the Clarke, im still so very torn at what to go for... a bag of ear-plugs as starters!! I shall remain viewing the post until you get chance to give the Clarke its real test in comparison to the Silverline. Offtopic but its suposed to snow this week and into the weekend . Stick at it PV.

Regards,
Matthew 

EDIT: and before anyone sugests it no i dont mean snowfoam!!


----------



## VIPER

Cheers, Matthew :thumb: I know what you mean, it actually 'feels' like snowy weather's imminant here, you know how you can just get a sense for it? Will probably turn out to be only a few flakes that melt as soon as they hit the ground though...hopefully!

Right now between the 2 I'd say the Clarke, based on feeling nicer to use, which is a big consideration if someone's doing a full car all in one go, and the fact that with only minor extra expense and 10 minutes with a jigsaw, it can take a small spot pad backing plate. Although in theory the same modification could be done with the Silverline, it would be a waste of time because the design of the main body of that machine would prevent getting to the tight areas of the car anyway. 
Performance wise, both the same to me at this stage, but like I said, the more I've thought about it, the more I'm inclined to say my pads aren't giving it a fair test yet. 

The main thing for me is the noise - if it weren't for this I'd be wholeheartedly backing the Clarke right now, even before I've given it a proper test.


----------



## maersk

I used mine wth new Menz pads and was OK.


----------



## VIPER

maersk said:


> I used mine wth new Menz pads and was OK.


I'll probably go for a Menz orange for mine as a polishing pad even though I could go for a bigger 6/6.5 pad now with this machine. Still undecided what to plump for in a finishing pad - maybe I'll try a LC as I've never had any of theirs before :thumb:


----------



## maersk

My Menz is an Orange and a Lake CC finish but you don't really need a finish pad I find.....

Sonus Das Scratch Buster are great with this. I used them to get parking scrapes out of my pal's Merc.


----------



## SWEENEY.B

I have just got the silverline and some SP PADS the red and the blue and for a beginner i would like to Thank Pit Viper and everyone else for taking time to help save money and to give their time to help others like me.

Just need a clear day now to polish and wax to start of not really confident to do paint correction so just Going to polish and wax like normal for the winter protection


Danny


----------



## Pieface876

Pit Viper said:


> I've got a feeling that it's more my 'past their best' pads than the machine tbh. and I'm expecting far better results when I get some new ones very soon.
> 
> As far as ergonomics go, although I haven't done anything like a full car yet, initial impressions is that it's far nicer to hold and use than the Silverline and feels better 'balanced' where the other machine, being tall, can feel a bit top heavy on horizontal panels. It's also easy to use with one hand, just gripping around the main body of the unit which isn't really a good idea with the Silverline for anyone who's tried that as it just rocks about too much.
> 
> In common with the cheaper machine the cable also isn't long enough though.


Could just use an Extension couldn't you?

When I get enough money and time I may do this, my cars paint is quite dull. Although it is Silver.


----------



## VIPER

Pieface876 said:


> Could just use an Extension couldn't you?
> 
> When I get enough money and time I may do this, my cars paint is quite dull. Although it is Silver.


Of course, but the thing is, when doing a roof and you have the cable over your sholder in the correct way, the plug is dangling about 6 inch off the floor (same as the Silverline does), so any kind of extension that you're plugging the original plug into is also suspended at that height and consequently it swings about - hence the need for extending the cable :thumb:


----------



## Step_7

OK, a bit of an update on my MAC spot pad modifications! Got my backing plate and pads yesterday (Thanks SP for quick despatch!) so here are some updated (and clearer) pictures.

This is the "double ended" bolt I welded up.









Screwed in to the machine with the backing plate still in place to make it easier to remove the adaptor. (No other way of locking the spindle)









With the backing plate and 80mm pad fitted









I'm concerned that the extra height will be an issue with stability but it seemed to work fine on the glass table in the kitchen! :lol:


----------



## GeeJay

:lol: THat looks so funny!

But seriously, 10/10 for ingenuity mate, that's absolute class :thumb: Can't wait to see the results on the car!


----------



## Step_7

Yeah, kind of ungainly I'll admit but if it does the job I'm not too worried. Going to try it out on the bumpers of the MINI as there's a lot of small panel areas on there.


----------



## mazda3_daveg

At least there's no risk of the machine touching the paint!!! :lol:


----------



## SWEENEY.B

Well polished and waxed car today not paint correction as i just wanted to get the car winter proofed so here is a few pics of the finished result only phone camera


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Here are Silverlines contact details for the reference thread if anyone needs to contact them for a warranty claim:

01935 382222 

Service Centre
Silverline Tools LTD 
Boundary Way 
Lufton Trading Estate
Yeovil
Somerset
BA22 8HZ 

Send your machine in with an accompanying note explaining the problem and return address.


----------



## andy84

hi, im looking into buyin one of the silverline or the mac's this week and im just woondering which pads will fit on them and where i can get some from?


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Depends what you want to correct, but this kit should be all you need:

http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/menzerna-250ml-polish-sample-kit.php

http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/elite-coolfoam-150mm-6-orange-light-cut-waffle-pad.php

http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/elite-coolfoam-150mm-6-red-waffle-finishing-pad.php

HTH Dave


----------



## Ziggy122

the men'z pads DONT LIKE Orbital sanders 
The fact they drag and spin pulls the foam off the velcro
Making it spray foam everywhere....
not nice....

Consider a Lake Country Pad okay there larger - but they dont seem to have an issue with it

Ziggy


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Thanks for that Ziggy, saved me some £££ as I was about to order a Menz compounding pad.


----------



## andy84

Right managed to get my self a Mac polisher from B&Q, and i must say for the price this is a good bit of kit. This is my first time at time at machine polishing and im very impressed on how much correction i got straight away. I didnt want to start on anything too strong for my paint so i just got megiuars scratch x and some menz pads(compound and polish) here is one swirl i attacked this morning before the heavens opened

Before









After one pass









And i gave it one more









Now i dont think thats bad to say its my first time and its usin a £34 polisher and only using scratch x.

When the rain stops gonna try some more, what dooes every body think?


----------



## SWEENEY.B

Looking good mate and cannot complain for the price


----------



## AudiMini

I've been reading through the thread and have decided to go for the Silverline - just under £20 on amazon - here

Now the thing I'm not sure on is pads and polish. I didn't want to spend loads as it'll make a cheap machine polishing solution become very expensive... so I wonder if anyone could advise on a source of good cheap pads? I've found these, but not sure if anyone has used them - pads

I was hoping to use SRP, but I noticed someone saying that it dries out, so PV suggested using SSR2.

Thanks for any help - sorry if I'm asking the same questions that others have asked, with over 100 pages to read through it's quite over-whelming!

Nick


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

Those pads are for a rotary, you want some pads with velcro backing mate.

Plus those silverline ones are not meant to be all that great, if you want budget pads your best bet is probably serious performance.

Im currently looking for some and will most likely get some of these, however machine mart do somne for aroun £3.50 a pad, though people on here think they mite be the silverline rotary ones just with a velcro backing instead made for machine mart.


----------



## AudiMini

cheers for the reply clean-my-sxi

I've had a look on the serious performance website but not sure which pads I'd need - I'm assuming it'd have to be the 150mm diameter pad (to go on the sliverline 125mm backing plate), and would need a polishing and finishing pad, but not sure what level of cut to go for Serious Performance


----------



## Step_7

I know Pit-Viper on here used Serious Performance pads on his Silverline originally, but he did recommend cutting them down in size as he wasn't getting as much rotation with the full 150mm pad. However there has been much knowledge gained since then and it may be possible to use the 150mm pads unmodified if the bearing on your silverline is degreased as many users have found that this helped a lot with pad rotation.

As for cut, well if you're using the pads on a MINI you will probably find the paint is quite hard - mine was! I ended up going with a yellow Megs polishing pad on a B&Q MAC polisher and SSR 2.5 before I made any impression on it. SRP will hide the swirls very nicely but probably won't do much correction.


----------



## AudiMini

Thanks for the reply Step7. I'd been looking at SSR and decided that 2.5 might be the one to go for. You're right about the MINI having hard paint, that's why I thought I'd try machine polishing to see if I could get the swirls out as it seems impossible by hand! 

Not sure how the SP pads colours relate to Megs colours, but thought I'd go for Orange Light cut pad and Red finishing pad.

I'll see if I can find anything on degreasing the bearing. I'd read about cutting down the pads and setting them off-centre, but this sounds like something else to consider!

Nice car BTW :thumb:

PS - I've not been on the site for ages, but great to see that the responses are still as helpful - cheers guys!


----------



## dr_shabzzz

Which of the Serious Performance pads would you recommend on black toyota paint? Paint could be anything up to 14 years old, but is in good condition

I've decided I want to go for the silverline...where's the best place to buy from at the moment?

Also...whats the best value for money polish to use? The megs 83/80 is around £20 each?!? I'm gunna need something quite abrasive for the first use...and then something less abrassive for the future...SSR2.5? 2.0? something else?

Thanks


----------



## Step_7

You could buy a small sample of the polishes you need before splashing out on a bigger bottle. I got a set of SSR (1,2,2.5 and 3) from eBay for about £10 and I know the DW traders have sample kits of various polishes as well.


----------



## dr_shabzzz

that's too much headache for me lol...I just want something that works...I'm gunna go for ssr2.5 for now and then in the spring i'll buy some ssr1.5 or 2.0

which polishing pads are good for the silverline? i don't want to order from serious performance as delivery is £5 

anythin from cyc or elitecarcare? as i'm already placing an order with them both


----------



## dr_shabzzz

Just placed an order for my Silverline, expecting to pay £20 delivered...

It said promotion applied and it went through for £14 something pence!!!! delivered!!

Its gone up to £29.47 now...

Amazon.co.uk: Silverline 125mm Random Orbit Sander: DIY & Tools

Wierd! Hope the order is fulfilled...bargain


----------



## VixMix

Toyota paint is usually soft. I would be wary about using 2.5 first off AND it is likely to leave marring due to: * the paint being soft; * the polish being abrasive and * the polisher being less "powerful" and taking longer to break down the abrasive polish.

Read through Dave KG's guides on this site for more info on why this is Click Here for the Guide

Ideally you should purchase one of the many sample kits. For a little more than the cost of a full bottle of polish it will give you 3 or 4 levels of abrasiveness and the sample bottles are ample size to do many applications. They will last you ages if you are only doing your own car and family cars. You only use a little bit of polish at a time, of course.

Start with the least abrasive (in poorboys terms that would be SSR 1 on a finishing pad) and work your way up until you reach a level of correction you are happy with (so next would be 1 on a light cut pad, then 2 on a finishing pad then 2 on a light cut pad, etc). If you do indeed need SSR 2.5 then you should follow with an application of SSR 1 on a finishing pad to refine the finish and take off any marring induced by the "heavy polishing". This will give a much better, shinier finish.

I know its a lot to take in, but better to work slowly and systematically through all the stages rather then second guess what you think your car may need. Don't just assume that you will need heavy correction because your car is old and the swirls are plentiful!

Read Dave's guides a couple of times, and if there is anything you don't understand just pop a question in the help section and someone will be right along to answer it 

Good luck:thumb:


----------



## Scotty Pro

Whats happened to the Clarke review ?????
My good lady is buying me a Sander for Xmas, but I don't know whether to go for the Clarke or the B&W Mac .... and its only 2 weeks away.


----------



## Scotty Pro

Well, I had a good look at the Clarke today, had the wife with me and she said she would rather I saw it before she bought it. Must say it seems a real professional piece of kit. 

Incidentally the guy that sold it to us asked what I was intending to use it for and when I told him he said the lowest speed was to fast for polishing, so I told him it came highly recommended on DW and I should have no problems.

PV, if you are still looking in on this thread, have you had a chance to give it a good testing yet??
Can't wait to put mine through its paces ......


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

He probably said it was too fast as rotarys are alot slower and thats what they seell their polishing pads for, but that doesnt matter because its a orbital.


----------



## Scotty Pro

Clean-my-sxi said:


> He probably said it was too fast as rotarys are alot slower and thats what they seell their polishing pads for, but that doesnt matter because its a orbital.


Do you have a Clarke ???? if yes which pads would you recommend ?
Was thinking about Lake Country 150mm, but there are quite a few to pick from


----------



## dr_shabzzz

They fulfilled the order...Got the silverline for under £15 delivered from amazon! Top bargain if the discount is still automatically applied


----------



## mazda3_daveg

dr_shabzzz said:


> They fulfilled the order...Got the silverline for under £15 delivered from amazon! Top bargain if the discount is still automatically applied


:doublesho Do you have a link?


----------



## AudiMini

mazda3_daveg said:


> :doublesho Do you have a link?


Hi Dave,

This is the one I bought - Amazon Silverline Its now showing as £13.10 :doublesho but out of stock :wall:

It does say that if you order now, they'll email you with a date when they plan to get it back in stock, so it sounds like they'll continue to do it - I think it shows as discontinued when they don't plan to re-stock.

Mine's arrived, but it has been dispatched to lapland ready for delivery on Chirstmas Eve :buffer: - if that sleigh gets any detailing with my new gear then I won't be happy


----------



## VIPER

Scotty Pro said:


> Well, I had a good look at the Clarke today, had the wife with me and she said she would rather I saw it before she bought it. Must say it seems a real professional piece of kit.
> 
> Incidentally the guy that sold it to us asked what I was intending to use it for and when I told him he said the lowest speed was to fast for polishing, so I told him it came highly recommended on DW and I should have no problems.
> 
> *PV, if you are still looking in on this thread, have you had a chance to give it a good testing yet??
> Can't wait to put mine through its paces *......


No, sorry I haven't even had it out of the box again since buying it  Way too busy with my business right now, and issues with DW as a whole which have kept me from posting anything for over a month (don't ask!), so sorry folks. Maybe over the Christmas holiday when I've got some spare time 

Just thought I'd better show my face, so to speak, in case you thought I'd died or emigrated (or you might not even have noticed my absence from the site, I don't know? :lol: (apart a few exceptions ).

Mother Goose, don't know what the state of play is with the seperate accompanying thread to this one - I've kind of lost track, sorry 

(Bargain on the Silverline btw as shown above :thumb


----------



## mazda3_daveg

AudiMini said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> This is the one I bought - Amazon Silverline Its now showing as £13.10 :doublesho but out of stock :wall:
> 
> It does say that if you order now, they'll email you with a date when they plan to get it back in stock, so it sounds like they'll continue to do it - I think it shows as discontinued when they don't plan to re-stock.
> 
> Mine's arrived, but it has been dispatched to lapland ready for delivery on Chirstmas Eve :buffer: - if that sleigh gets any detailing with my new gear then I won't be happy


Cheers, mine needs to go back to Silverline for repair but it's going to cost me a lot to send it. Might just get a new one at that price! 

PS good to see you PV


----------



## Scotty Pro

Pit Viper said:


> Just thought I'd better show my face, so to speak, in case you thought I'd died or emigrated (or you might not even have noticed my absence from the site, I don't know? :lol: (apart a few exceptions ).


Nice to see you back again PV, :wave:as you can see I went for the Clarke :thumb: just got to get myself some pads now. What do you reckon on the Lake country CSS Pads, do they last better than the cheapo ones ???? I presume they will be a perfect fit for the Clarke (150mm)

Can't wait to try it out ... here's me on Christmas Afternoon -> :buffer: ha ha


----------



## VIPER

Scotty Pro said:


> Nice to see you back again PV, :wave:as you can see I went for the Clarke :thumb: just got to get myself some pads now. What do you reckon on the Lake country CSS Pads, do they last better than the cheapo ones ???? I presume they will be a perfect fit for the Clarke (150mm)
> 
> Can't wait to try it out ... here's me on Christmas Afternoon -> :buffer: ha ha


The LC CCS pads are great and they're what I'll be going for for my Clarke when I get back into my detailing over Christmas or in the New Year. I've not had them myself (as they were a bit big for the silverline), but I've had a go with them on a mate's Clarke and they are a very good and well made pad :thumb:. I've sort of come to the conclusion that cheap non branded pads, are a bit of a false economy really.


----------



## yetizone

Glad you are back on line PV..! :wave: The advice you have given on this thread has been invaluable for the novice machine users. I certainly would not have taken the plunge into machine polishing if it wasn't for your input here..! So a big :thumb: for that. I bought a silverline and its been great to begin with. I've used it a couple of time now to good effect and I'll post the pix over the hols in this thread if I get a mo.

All the best for the festive season :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

Cheers, matey :thumb: Best wishes to you too 

And a Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to everyone else as well :thumb:

(I'll be back to my usual level of input shortly  )


----------



## Sportspack Mark

Thanks to step_7 for giving me the link to the thread

my MINI has only light swirls on it but I want to get it looking good for the shows

gonna get me one of these, now what sort of pads fit on this boyo?


----------



## Lloyd71

I'm going to be ordering a Silverline after Christmas, does it come with everything you need to get going except for the polishes and pads? I'll be getting the polish as a samples kit and 150 pads from another site so those are no problem, I just need to know about the rest. Will I need to buy a backing plate seperately? Will any backing plate fit?


----------



## mazda3_daveg

dr_shabzzz said:


> Its gone up to £29.47 now...
> 
> Amazon.co.uk: Silverline 125mm Random Orbit Sander: DIY & Tools
> 
> Wierd! Hope the order is fulfilled...bargain


Don't worry, it's still there for the same price, see on the right hand side:

Amazon.co.uk
£13.10 & this item Delivered FREE in the UK with Super Saver Delivery. See details and conditions
Not in stock; order now and we'll deliver when available


----------



## caledonia

Pit Viper said:


> Cheers, matey :thumb: Best wishes to you too
> 
> And a Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to everyone else as well :thumb:
> 
> (I'll be back to my usual level of input shortly  )


Merry Christmas to you PV.
And a Happy New Year when it come.
Look forward to your input once more. :thumb:
Gordon.


----------



## VIPER

Well, I'm back :wave: 

So, what does everyone know then? 

Ashamed to say my Clarke's still sat in it's box on the shelf  and I've not really tried it out properly yet (too damn cold, cars too dirty to machine polish, too busy with Christmas and work blahdy, blah lol!). I'm going to see if I can sort myself out a scrap panel in the next couple of weeks and then do a proper evaluation of it.

Hope you're all well :thumb:

(P.S Mother Goose - PM me re: the 'thread', mate )


----------



## Scotty Pro

Pit Viper said:


> Well, I'm back :wave:
> 
> Ashamed to say my Clarke's still sat in it's box on the shelf  and I've not really tried it out properly yet (too damn cold, cars too dirty to machine polish, too busy with Christmas and work blahdy, blah lol!).


Know what you mean PV, mines been in its box since Christmas Day, just plugged it in once to listen to the noise it makes (actually I was expecting a lot more noisier machine). Got some Lake Country pads on order from i4Detailing, should get them next week. I do hope its better weather next weekend, want to give the car a good seeing too.:buffer:


----------



## Eurogloss

Hmmm , interesting ! What are the specs like ? 

Oops ! Made a blunder ! I didn't read your whole thread hence the question !

Sorry !

Mario


----------



## Scotty Pro

Eurogloss said:


> Hmmm , interesting ! What are the specs like ?
> 
> Oops ! Made a blunder ! I didn't read your whole thread hence the question !
> 
> Sorry !
> 
> Mario


You read the whole thread, must have took a while


----------



## NeilG40

Are air-powered sanders a usuable alternative, I've got one of these clarke's:-

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cat24b-6in-heavy-duty-dual-action-sander/path/air-sanders-polishers


----------



## VIPER

NeilG40 said:


> Are air-powered sanders a usuable alternative, I've got one of these clarke's:-
> 
> http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cat24b-6in-heavy-duty-dual-action-sander/path/air-sanders-polishers


I can't think of a reason why not, mate although I'll hold my hand up to say I've not much experience of air tools and certainly not for polishing cars, but in theory as long as it's variable speed and can take a pad, then why not.

Actually, thinking about it, am I right in thinking that although the trigger will be variable so you get a slow spin up, it then doesn't have any fixed speed positions so it's either full on when the trigger is fully squeezed, or off? If so that would be a problem as, in the example you've shown, you wouldn't want to to be doing all the polishing at 8,000.


----------



## NeilG40

Pit Viper said:


> I can't think of a reason why not, mate although I'll hold my hand up to say I've not much experience of air tools and certainly not for polishing cars, but in theory as long as it's variable speed and can take a pad, then why not.
> 
> Actually, thinking about it, am I right in thinking that although the trigger will be variable so you get a slow spin up, it then doesn't have any fixed speed positions so it's either full on when the trigger is fully squeezed, or off? If so that would be a problem as, in the example you've shown, you wouldn't want to to be doing all the polishing at 8,000.


The dial on the side controls the speed, it's been quite a while since I used it though so I can't really remember how fast it was.


----------



## VIPER

In that case then, if it does have a speed control dial, then I can't see any reason why it would perform any different to a electric powered machine - I'd be interested to hear how you get with it :thumb:


----------



## _Jimmer_

RussZS said:


> http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/n...refview=search&ts=1220194017921&isSearch=true
> 
> £20 from B&Q...


can't find the one your on about


----------



## VIPER

msdv6 said:


> can't find the one your on about


No, neither can I now.

For about that money, I found a few places that are selling the now famous orange Silverline 'hi-spec' one (the machine that started this whole thread off).

Not checked all the links and sites out on here though, so some might be 'dead' now?

http://www.shopwiki.co.uk/detail/q=...ec+125mm+Random+Orbital+Sander/jumpToFirst=t/

(Ignore the blue DIY one as it's underpowered and doesn't have variable speed if I recall.)


----------



## NeilG40

Pit Viper said:


> In that case then, if it does have a speed control dial, then I can't see any reason why it would perform any different to a electric powered machine - I'd be interested to hear how you get with it :thumb:


I reckon I'll probably have a trip down to the scrapyard sometime and get a bootlid or such like to have a practice on.


----------



## HairyG

NeilG40 said:


> Are air-powered sanders a usuable alternative, I've got one of these clarke's:-
> 
> http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cat24b-6in-heavy-duty-dual-action-sander/path/air-sanders-polishers


I can't comment on the polishing aspect but I find the air hose gets very heavy after a while if you are working with your arms extended. You don't want to trail the hose across the surface you are working on, after all.

You probably have the right idea, trying it out on a scrap panel first.


----------



## robrobc

Good point HairyG, do you find though that the compressor is always pumping/working, I ask because my compressor is really noisy and I am not sure I could put up with all that racket


----------



## VIPER

robrobc said:


> Good point HairyG, do you find though that the compressor is always pumping/working, I ask because my compressor is really noisy and I am not sure I could put up with all that racket


What's the tank size? I'd have thought a 50 litre or more one would give a fair few panels worth of polishing before the motor kicked in as a polisher is only really a 'light' use tool, it's not like an impact wrench or something is it? If it's only a 25 litre one then I'd imagine yes it would be cutting in quite a lot.

Good point about the weight and relative inflexibility of air hoses though.


----------



## robrobc

Pit Viper said:


> What's the tank size? I'd have thought a 50 litre or more one would give a fair few panels worth of polishing before the motor kicked in as a polisher is only really a 'light' use tool, it's not like an impact wrench or something is it? If it's only a 25 litre one then I'd imagine yes it would be cutting in quite a lot.
> 
> Good point about the weight and relative inflexibility of air hoses though.


Pit......it is a 50 litre tank, I may run a light application tool and see how it performs with that.


----------



## yetizone

Hi all,

Just a quick Silverline :buffer: update.

I have used my Silverline a couple of times now and have had some decent results so far - even on tough VAG paint. 

That said, I have come across a few problems that are a little annoying. Confirming PitVipers observations, it really can't handle a pad bigger than 5 inches. When having a crack at my Golf this weekend, I ran out of Menz pads and switched over to a Megs polishing one and it really bogged down with that 6 inch pad.

The other thing I've noticed is that it would be nice to be able to get into the nooks and crannies of the car and the non interchangaeable head for a smaller backing plate is a little frustrating.

I'm just considering whether its worth taking the leap to something a bit more specialised.

My main questions are...

*1.* Has anyone who bought the humble silverline as an intro to machine polishing made the leap to a 'proper DA' such as a Flex, Meguiars G220, Kestrel DA or a Rotary?

*2.* If so, have you noticed a huge improvement over the little silverline?

*3.* Would one of the specialist polishers cope and not bog down with a Megs 6' pad?

Any observations welcome :thumb:

PS. Although I'm really new to machine polishing - it really is addictive to see the improvement being made!


----------



## VIPER

Glad to hear you've had some success with the machine, although it's only ever meant to be something of an 'introductory' machine and the first (and very inexpensive) rung on the ladder from hand applications.

I forget now (sorry - so many people involved in this thread since it's beginning, I can't recall who's done what), but has yours had the bearing degreased and / or the removal of the plastic damping ring? Both or either of these can free up the machine a little and let the torque of the motor be maximised with the least resistance. It might help with it's capability with the larger 165mm pads.

I have upgraded from the Silverline to the Clarke DA with its greater offset throw and more powerful 750w motor, but for various reasons I've not had the chance to do a proper test and comparison with the Silverline as yet - but I will, it's on the cards :thumb:

Oh, yes the like of the G220, Kestral etc. do perform wery well with the larger pads as they were designed with them in mind. The Flex definitely does as it's different in that it has a direct geared drive from the motor to spin the backing plate rather than the 'induced' rotation of the other machines. but then it is a lot more expensive.


----------



## yetizone

Thanks for the help PV.  Yes I have degreased the bearing and removed the plastic ring. It definitely helped to a degree with the Menz pads - allowing a little more physical pressure to be applied. But alas, with the same pressure applied with the Megs pad it started to bog down a little. Don't get me wrong, it still worked, but I could only use lighter pressure. I really think that I'm going to make the leap up to the Kestrel DA I have to say. Addictive stuff this paint correction...!


----------



## robrobc

I am with you on this Yeti, it is only as matter of time before I weaken and buy the Kestrel.:buffer:


----------



## VIPER

robrobc said:


> I am with you on this Yeti, it is only as matter of time before I weaken and buy the Kestrel.:buffer:


So, have you then?


----------



## mazda3_daveg

*Your Amazon.co.uk order has dispatched*

Your order #xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (received December 21,2008)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Qty Item Price Shipped Subtotal

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Amazon.co.uk items (Sold by Amazon EU S.a.r.L.):

1 Silverline 125mm Hi-Spec R... £13.10 1 £13.10

Shipped via Home Delivery Network Limited

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Item Subtotal: £11.39
Shipping and handling: £0.00
VAT: £1.71

BARGAIN!!!!


----------



## robrobc

Pit Viper said:


> So, have you then?


Yes I have...................once the weather improves a bit more then I shall be able to do more than just nip outside for a quick shot on one panel :buffer:

And before anyone says put the car in the garage, it wont fit :lol:










A fact that SWMBO has pointed out to me all too frequently 

I will report back in due course.
Rob


----------



## VIPER

In that case robrobc, as the unofficial 'leader' of this thread, you can bloody clear off now as the Kestrel is 'mainstream' and this thread's for 'alternative's' only!!   

:lol: Only kidding, mate, it'll be interesting to hear how you get on with it


----------



## robrobc

Pit Viper said:


> In that case robrobc, as the unofficial 'leader' of this thread, you can bloody clear off now as the Kestrel is 'mainstream' and this thread's for 'alternative's' only!!
> 
> :lol: Only kidding, mate, it'll be interesting to hear how you get on with it


I will keep you posted, I think my F250 should test the reliability of it :buffer::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## VIPER

robrobc said:


> I will keep you posted, I think my F250 should test the reliability of it :buffer::lol::lol::lol:


I would think it will by the looks of it, yeah! - that's some monster veehickle you have there :thumb:


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

And you're patience  I bet you get the bird flipped in your direction a fair bit Robrobc? Philistines, she's a beaut!


----------



## robrobc

Mother-Goose said:


> And you're patience  I bet you get the bird flipped in your direction a fair bit Robrobc? Philistines, she's a beaut!


Mother-Goose.......I am amazed by the reaction of people.......some love it, some hate it, most do not realise that it is a diesel,:wall: that it is acceptably economical, but I guess that is always the way.
All the people in our village love it, affectionately known as Yellow Peril. They are remarkably good value these days, I got this 3 weeks ago. she is a 2006 on a 55 Plate with 27,000 miles only, and all for focus money !!!!! :thumb::thumb::thumb:


----------



## robrobc

Pit Viper said:


> I would think it will by the looks of it, yeah! - that's some monster veehickle you have there :thumb:


It is that pit,:thumb: but then it is going to tow our Fifth Wheel all over Europe so it needs to be. I love it, so so easy to drive and with all mod cons, and some I did not realise I needed :lol:


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

I thought it was a superduty but couldn't be sure! I'd friggin love one! Did you get it imported yourself or was it already over here? (sorry for thread hijack, you can pm the answer if you want lol)


----------



## robrobc

Mother-Goose said:


> I thought it was a superduty but couldn't be sure! I'd friggin love one! Did you get it imported yourself or was it already over here? (sorry for thread hijack, you can pm the answer if you want lol)


Thread hijack......given the amount of input you have made to this one....I can hardly see anyone minding.

I bought it in the UK, have been looking for ages to find the right one (SWMBO still thinks I haven't found the right one :wall as I wish to use it as a tow vehicle both in the UK and also mainland Europe, I wanted one that did not have a ballistic mileage on it.........not easy to find 

I just love driving it, it is great fun.......sorry if I am rambling :lol:
As to importing.....hmmmm that made sense when it was 2$ to 1£ but now...........and with the 22% Import Tax and 15% VAT it is not worth it. 
IMHO
Rob


----------



## robrobc

Mother-Goose said:


> I thought it was a superduty but couldn't be sure! I'd friggin love one! Did you get it imported yourself or was it already over here? (sorry for thread hijack, you can pm the answer if you want lol)


Yes Mother Goose it is a Superduty Lariat 4x4 Amarillo Special Edition with just about every conceivable extra on it. Power Seats.....Heated, Power Pedals, Full Climate, Full Leather, Tow Pack, Auxilliary Power Switches, Trailer Brake Pack, OEM Tonneau, Power Reversing Window, Trailer Mirrors, the full trip 

Im my opinion it was cheap as chips :lol:

Rob


----------



## eyup

mazda3_daveg said:


> Your order #xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (received December 21,2008)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Qty Item Price Shipped Subtotal
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Amazon.co.uk items (Sold by Amazon EU S.a.r.L.):
> 
> 1 Silverline 125mm Hi-Spec R... £13.10 1 £13.10
> 
> Shipped via Home Delivery Network Limited
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Item Subtotal: £11.39
> Shipping and handling: £0.00
> VAT: £1.71
> 
> BARGAIN!!!!


Seconded. Received mine today. Thankfully weather been pants so not bothered about the delay. There may be a few more lurking that received theirs at this price. Cheers for the info guys:buffer:


----------



## yetizone

mazda3_daveg said:


> Your order #xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (received December 21,2008)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Qty  Item Price Shipped Subtotal
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Amazon.co.uk items (Sold by Amazon EU S.a.r.L.):
> 
> 1 Silverline 125mm Hi-Spec R... £13.10 1 £13.10
> 
> Shipped via Home Delivery Network Limited
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Item Subtotal: £11.39
> Shipping and handling: £0.00
> VAT: £1.71
> 
> BARGAIN!!!!





eyup said:


> Seconded. Received mine today. Thankfully weather been pants so not bothered about the delay. There may be a few more lurking that received theirs at this price. Cheers for the info guys:buffer:


Great :thumb: - you guys will love the little Silverline. Bargain basement paint correction that actually works...!!!!! I got pretty good results with the Menzerna range of pads and polishes in conjunction with the Silverline DA, and on hard VAG paint as well. The good thing being that the Menz pads fit perfectly and don't need cutting down - just remember to wash them in warm soapy water a couple times first as they feel hard to begin with. Bigger pads tended to bog down with pressure for me. Despite its minor flaws, one of the best purchases made since I joined DW.


----------



## VIPER

yetizone said:


> Great :thumb: - you guys will love the little Silverline. Bargain basement paint correction that actually works...!!!!! I got pretty good results with the Menzerna range of pads and polishes in conjunction with the Silverline DA, and on hard VAG paint as well. *The good thing being that the Menz pads fit perfectly* and don't need cutting down - just remember to wash them in warm soapy water a couple times first as they feel hard to begin with. Bigger pads tended to bog down with pressure for me. Despite its minor flaws, one of the best purchases made since I joined DW.


Yes, and there's a matching sized finishing pad coming soon as well apparantly, so this machine will be well catered for in all pad types then :thumb:

Glad to hear members are still buying and using the silverline as an intro to machine polishing.

And I'm _still _ waiting to properly try out my Clarke (work, weather, family stuff all seem to be getting in the way  my apologies). I did use my Silverline the other weekend though for applying SRP to a largish van - not for any correction duties but just for ease and speed of application and it worked wonders :thumb: Being the person who's had this machine the longest (and probably been used the most), it's still not missed a beat or failed me once, it's a tough little thing!  If time had not been against me to get it done in the day (I had vinyl transfers to get off first which was very time consuming) I would have experimented with the Clarke.


----------



## yetizone

Snap - I used the silverline last weekend with an LSP to speed up the process. Zaino AIO (very mildly abrasive) on Menz polishing pads. Worked a treat and speeded up the use of this particular AIO dramatically.

Looking forward to hearing how the Clarke shapes up. :thumb:


----------



## dito

i just ordered this machine for 26.12 special delivery from amazon, great price. im newbie in this world so dont really think gonna snap profesional machine. this so affordable..

thanks to whoever made this thread. very usefull...


----------



## Lloyd71

I'm going to order mine tomorrow, has anyone got a link to the correct sized pads to use for it please? I'll be ordering the pads and polishes this weekend


----------



## mazda3_daveg

The 3M ones seem to work well with it. Grab some new compounding ones here for a bargain before they are gone:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=104318


----------



## Lloyd71

mazda3_daveg said:


> The 3M ones seem to work well with it. Grab some new compounding ones here for a bargain before they are gone:
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=104318


The proper sized Menzerna ones are only £5.17 on CleanYourCar, surely I'd be better off getting those?


----------



## mazda3_daveg

Probably Lloyd if you are already placing an order. They work out as a bargain for someone who only want's the pads since the price includes P+P :thumb:


----------



## Lloyd71

mazda3_daveg said:


> Probably Lloyd if you are already placing an order. They work out as a bargain for someone who only want's the pads since the price includes P+P :thumb:


Yeah I'm already going to be placing an order for a compounding and polishing pad from Menz, a sample set of Menz polishes and Sonus SFX3 pad. :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

The 2 Menz pads (white and orange) are the ideal size for the Silverline and although the orange one will seem a bit hard straight out of the packet, if you give it a quick wash with some Fairy, rinse out thoroughly and leave to dry overnight, then it will soften up somewhat. Like most pads, it will soften further with repeated use/wash cycles.

I have it on good authority that Menz will have a matching finishing pad in the 135mm size soon, so that will make the complete set. Why they've not had one before is anyone's guess, but better late than never I suppose :thumb:


----------



## Lloyd71

Thanks for your help! I can afford to get them now anyway, I just found out that we have a pressure washer in the garage that my dad had bought and never used! So saved me a fair bit of money there.


----------



## dogzillaa

After finding this thread I decided to pick up the B&Q MacAllister 450w machine.

I gave it a try today with Meguiars 3 Step that I've got here, apparently the first step isn't an abrasive (it's chemical) so I figured that would be OK with a wool pad. (I heard they have strong cutting power)

Worked very well on the small test area I tried it on, got rid of all swirls and made the paint look brand new.

Looking around the meguiars 3 step doesn't seem to get much praise so I'm hoping to get some advice as to what sort of pads I need to buy and what sort of polishing/waxes.

I want a setup that is a good all rounder as I currently have a honda but I'm waiting on a new VW to arrive. Also in the family is a MG, another VW and a Fiat. I'm only fixing swirls and light scratches so I don't need a huge library of products.

So please any advice on polishes/pads that I should buy would be much appreciated.


----------



## dogzillaa

Also I get the point of polishing pads to remove swirls but what about the finishing pads?

Do you use those to apply the waxes or to remove the waxes and buff to a shine?

How many pads would I need for a car?


----------



## VIPER

dogzillaa said:


> Also I get the point of polishing pads to remove swirls but what about the finishing pads?
> 
> Do you use those to apply the waxes or to remove the waxes and buff to a shine?
> 
> How many pads would I need for a car?


I would recommend the following set up for you:-

Menzerna 'orange' polishing pads - get a couple of these as they are very versatile and will work well with polishes of various levels of cut. If you get a few you can always have one ready to use whilst another is being washed / dryed.

From what you've said about the level of correction you're doing, I really don't think you'd need to get the matching Menzerna 'white' cutting pad as it's really hard and would be overkill and too much for your requirements.

As for finishing pads, at the moment Menzerna haven't got a soft finishing pad to match the 2 I've mentioned above (in the same 135mm size), so you'll have to look to another brand for one of these. My 2 immediate suggestions would be either a Lake Country 'Black' finishing pad, or a Meguiars 'Tan' one.

A finishing pad is normally used, as it's name suggests, to apply a finishing polish after a previous correction stage with a more abrasive polish. Sometimes after an initial correction stage to remove swirls / scratches, there can be a little micro marring in the finish and reflections aren't quite as pin sharp as they could be, so a pass over with a finishing polish on a finishing pad will refine the finish and leave a perfectly sharp crystal clear paint ready for sealing with a sealant or wax. This is also sometimes called 'jewelling' the finish.

To go along with the Menzerna 'Orange' polishing pads and either of the 2 finishing pads, I would strongly recommend you go for the Menzerna sample kit which contains 4 of their most popular polishes. In order of cut (from heavy to light) it has - Power Gloss, PO85RD Intensive Polish, 106FA Final Finish, and PO85RD Final Finish. The bottles are 250ml and you will have ample in each to do a complete car many times over.

So, on a car that has has moderate swirls, you could use the PO85 Intensive Polish on one of the orange polishing pads to correct and then refine the finish (if necessary) with the PO85 Final Finsh on one of the finishing pads.

Or, if a car only has light swirling, you can do it in a single step with the 106FA Final Finish (which has slightly more cut and correctional ability than the other 'Final Finish'). Often this one will correct light swirling and get the paint to a perfect finish in a single step.

There are, of course, many other combinations that will work, but those ^^ are just a couple of examples of how they can be used. As always with machining, start with the least abrasive polish and pad at your disposal and work upwards in cut levels. If you can achieve the correction level without removing too much of the paint thickness, then that's a success and will mean you've preserved more of the paint for any future correction work, should it be required.

You can use a finishing pad to apply waxes and sealants (although I still prefer to do this by hand application myself), but you'd still need to buff off with a micrfibre by hand afterwards.

Hope some of that's been of some help :thumb:


----------



## dogzillaa

Pit Viper said:


> Hope some of that's been of some help :thumb:


Wow..... I am stunned! Covered everything I wanted to know! What a top chap you are 

Just looking forward to the weekend now, let's hope the weather isn't too bad, marathon session on the car


----------



## VIPER

dogzillaa said:


> Wow..... I am stunned! Covered everything I wanted to know! What a top chap you are
> 
> Just looking forward to the weekend now, let's hope the weather isn't too bad, marathon session on the car


Not a problem, matey - anything else you want to know just give me a PM :thumb:

Happy :buffer:


----------



## Ham

Sorry to ask this that's probably answered many times, but, i like using poor boys stuff as it can be used in direct sunlight. ive got SSR2, Natys blue wax and world class polish plus others.
what pads would i need to use with the Silverline machine or the Performance one in B+Q bearing in mind ive never used a machine before.
Thanks Ham


----------



## VIPER

The default option now are the 135mm Menzerna pads (orange polishing one and the yellow finishing one). They are already the correct size for this machine and so require no cutting down. It's the only real choice as 160/165mm pads don't work very well unless trimmed down to the size of the Menzerna, so you might as well get them in the right size to start with :thumb:

(you'll see from my previous post #1182 above that these new Menzerna 'Yellow' finishing pads are new on the market and weren't available when I wrote that)


----------



## Ham

Thanks Pit Viper,
one more question, how long do you machine polish for, is when all of the residue has gone?
thanks


----------



## VIPER

Hard to give a ********** answer as it does depend on the product, the pad, the paint type, the level of correction being done, but, just to give an average with this machine about 7/8 minutes or so per work area (usually about a 2x2 ft section or half a door, quarter of a bonnet etc.).

These machines only have a relatively small throw to their offsets so generally take longer to break down polishes than a dedicated detailing machine will (has to be some compromises somewhere for the fraction they cost, of course). Where a Megs G220 or Kestrel DAS-6 might have fully worked a polish in 5 minutes or so, these will roughly take 50% longer.

You can usually gauge when it's ready as the residue goes clear and 'oily' looking (as opposed to the 'white' opaque look it has at the beginning).


----------



## WAC

Going to get myself one of these machines. 

What's the best to get at the moment? 

What pad/s?

What polish?

My car is washed all the time and polished by hand 3 or 4 times a year and has light swirls. (solid red ford paint)

My misses car has loads or scratches (used scourer to remove bird crap) but they are not too deep. (metallic dark blue ford) 


I have got a bosch PEX 270 AE but has a rpm of 7500-12,000 which i guess is too fast and it has had some hard use. Need a new one anyway.


----------



## aussiedriver

WAC said:


> I have got a bosch PEX 270 AE but has a rpm of 7500-12,000 which i guess is too fast and it has had some hard use. Need a new one anyway.


That RPM is perfectly okay as it isn't a rotary. The head will barely rotate at 60-150rpm, but likely close to zero rpm in certain positions.

I used a PEX 270 for years, until the head stopped rotating in 90% of situations, so it just didn't have enough cut for me anymore.


----------



## VIPER

WAC said:


> Going to get myself one of these machines.
> 
> What's the best to get at the moment?
> 
> What pad/s?
> 
> What polish?
> 
> My car is washed all the time and polished by hand 3 or 4 times a year and has light swirls. (solid red ford paint)
> 
> My misses car has loads or scratches (used scourer to remove bird crap) but they are not too deep. (metallic dark blue ford)
> 
> I have got a bosch PEX 270 AE but has a rpm of 7500-12,000 which i guess is too fast and it has had some hard use. Need a new one anyway.


See my posts on the previous page for polish pad recommendations.

As for the speed of your machine, to be fair, it is a tad high, but as long as you keep it on the lowest setting you'll probably be okay. For comparision my Clarke is rated 4000-7000 so is very similar to a Megs G220's range (2760-6900). And as aussiedriver says, in reality it's only going to be rotating at about 1-2 revs per second on the paint anyway under the pressure you'd apply when polishing. I was using mine last night with some finishing polish (Menz PO85) and with only light pressure applied the Clarke could spin the pad almost like a rotary (I couldn't count the revs speed as it was too fast). As I said though, under proper load for correction purposes it slows down to about 2/3 per second or 120/180 rpm.


----------



## WAC

Thank you, want to get another machine as the bosch is tired and well used does not take much pressure to stop rotating. 

What is the best (budget) machine? and polish and pads for what i need (see above post). 

the MAC at B & Q looks nice with case etc. or is the base to big at 150mm.

Really new to this never used a machine to polish a car before.


----------



## WAC

Went to B&Q and got the Performance Power POS400 for £19.98. chap said it did not oscillate and only rotated, I knew different. 

just need pads and polish now.


----------



## Ham

WAC, i think there was a post from 3dr(?) as hes brought one of these, what pads are you using?


----------



## malinmip

I posted this earlier to detailing guide:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=109433

It's a random orbital though...


----------



## blurb

WAC said:


> Went to B&Q and got the Performance Power POS400 for £19.98. chap said it did not oscillate and only rotated, I knew different.
> 
> just need pads and polish now.


Hi WAC,

I've got the Performance Power polisher and mine does bog down with the 150mm pads.
I'd say to take a look at these since they'll fit nicely and allow the polisher to spin easier.
http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/menzerna-135-mm-pads-polish.html
HTH


----------



## VIPER

^^^ Agreed - the Menzerna 135mm pad range are the way to go for these types of machines :thumb:


----------



## isherdholi

I need a case for this machine. What do you guys all use?


----------



## VIPER

isherdholi said:


> I need a case for this machine. What do you guys all use?


The cardboard box it came in  :lol: (for both my Silverline and my Clarke).

Must sort out something a bit better.


----------



## Ham

which ones?
http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/menzerna-135-mm-pads-polish.html


----------



## isherdholi

Ham said:


> which ones?
> http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/menzerna-135-mm-pads-polish.html


I''ve got the white and the orange ones myself. I guess you could buy all three if you wanted. The yellow one will be the finest cut, for finishing.


----------



## VIPER

Ham said:


> which ones?
> http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/menzerna-135-mm-pads-polish.html


Just get the orange polishing and yellow finishing ones. The white one is a very hard pad and as such is more suited to heavy cutting correction which, tbh. the type of machines discussed on this thread aren't really capable of. They're more suited to medium/light swirl removal and so the orange pad (which itself is quite hard as polishing pads go - but will soften with use) is more than capable for this. Maybe get a couple of each (2 orange, 2 yellow) then you always have a clean fresh one to fall back on if required or when one's being washed.

I'd also advise giving at least the orange one a hand wash in the sink with some Fairy liquid, rising thoroughly and air drying overnight when it's brand new. It just softens the pad up a bit before the first use.


----------



## Ham

thanks again Pit Viper!


----------



## BENJY

sorry for the question but which is the one to get?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-Hi-Spec-289446-Random-Sander/sim/B000OO9V0M/2

or

http://http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-359762-Random-Orbit-Sander/dp/B000OODN3I/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_0/280-8799680-5593656


----------



## isherdholi

There's a typo in your second link there mate, you have "http://" twice. I think you mean this: -






Anyway, I've got the orange one myself (the one in your first link) I looked at the second link and there's no mention of variable speed. If that is the case, then I don't think it would be suitable, as 10,000 RPM is very high!!


----------



## VIPER

Yes, the blue one is not suitable for 2 reasons:- there's no variable speed control, and it's only got a 180w motor. 

The orange 'Hi-spec' one that's been the backbone of this thread is variable speed and has a much more powerful 450w motor.


----------



## BENJY

Thanks guys ill get the orange one on order:buffer:


----------



## diffinking

Pit Viper said:


> See my posts on the previous page for polish pad recommendations.
> 
> As for the speed of your machine, to be fair, it is a tad high, but as long as you keep it on the lowest setting you'll probably be okay. For comparision my Clarke is rated 4000-7000 so is very similar to a Megs G220's range (2760-6900). And as aussiedriver says, in reality it's only going to be rotating at about 1-2 revs per second on the paint anyway under the pressure you'd apply when polishing. I was using mine last night with some finishing polish (Menz PO85) and with only light pressure applied the Clarke could spin the pad almost like a rotary (I couldn't count the revs speed as it was too fast). As I said though, under proper load for correction purposes it slows down to about 2/3 per second or 120/180 rpm.


hi mate whats the clarke orbital buffer that you have purchased is it this 1

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cros2-contractor-150mm-random-orbital-sander

thanx ryan


----------



## VIPER

diffinking said:


> hi mate whats the clarke orbital buffer that you have purchased is it this 1
> 
> http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cros2-contractor-150mm-random-orbital-sander
> 
> thanx ryan


Hi Ryan, Yes it's that one. Just a quick summary of it as i'm on my way out - it's a fair bit noisier than the Silverline, performance wise it doesn't do anything the Silverline can't do, although it is nicer to hold and use.


----------



## shiny_cougar

Well just read this from start to finish, must admit that my eyes are aching a little!!! But what a fantastic thread, and some great info PV... 

Thanks everyone for an interesting read, I can see that I will be going out and buying one of the MACs or similar!!!


----------



## VIPER

tbh. it needs editing down. Even though I'm a Moderator now, I'm not covering this section just yet, but when I am, I'll go through the entire thread and delete any unnecessary posts to shorten it down and make it less time consuming to read :thumb:


----------



## BENJY

Sorry if its another question thats been asked before ive gone and got the orange silverline on order i plan on using it on my mkv golf which has very very faint swirls on it from the dealer, they are only visible in very bright light if looked at closely. Now ive always planned on using my srp to hide or get rid of these swirls as theyre not that noticable to justify going out and buying a whole new set of polishes for. which pad would you recomend i use to apply the srp? I also have some poor boys black hole glaze which i plan on using the silverline for so again which pad would you recommend for this?

Many thanks:buffer:


----------



## VIPER

BENJY said:


> Sorry if its another question thats been asked before ive gone and got the orange silverline on order i plan on using it on my mkv golf which has very very faint swirls on it from the dealer, they are only visible in very bright light if looked at closely. Now ive always planned on using my srp to hide or get rid of these swirls as theyre not that noticable to justify going out and buying a whole new set of polishes for. which pad would you recomend i use to apply the srp? I also have some poor boys black hole glaze which i plan on using the silverline for so again which pad would you recommend for this?
> 
> Many thanks:buffer:


For me, in your situation, I would get one of each of the Menzerna orange polishing and yellow finishing pads (you kind of need to have these anyway for this machine with being the correct size).

If they are only really light I'd first try the SRP on the yellow one on a small area and see if it corrects, if so continue around the car with this one. If not the orange one will definitely work. It's always best to try the least abrasive combo you have and work up (within sensible reason obviously - there'd be no point attempting to remove very bad swirls on a BMW with a finishing polish on a finishing pad, that would be just a waste of time, to make an extreme example).

But for very light swirls that are hard to see unless really looking for them in the sun as sounds like your car is, then I think it would be worth trying the SRP on the yellow first before the orange. You'll need the orange one at some point no doubt, and for the PB's glaze you'll need the yellow, so you kind of have to get them both anyway.

Are you sure you don't want to get a dedicated machine polish to remove them rather than the 'half removing / half filling' job that SRP will do.

You can get 100ml samples of all three of the Menzerna polishes from at least one trader for only a few quid each (slips my mind at the moment which one ), so you could get either 1 bottle of the 106FA Final Finish which would correct your minor swirls and finish down to an LSP ready level in one step. Or, you could cover yourself for a wider range of correction by getting a bottle each of the PO85RD 3.02 Intensive Polish and the PO85RD Final Finish. Even a 100ml bottle will be easily enough to do a whole car - I've used only a fraction of a 100ml bottle of the PO85 Final Finish to pass over one of mine recently.

SRP will do a grand job by machine, but I always figure if you're going to spend time using the machine and masking up trim etc. you might as well correct it properly?

Hope some of that helps :thumb:


----------



## BENJY

That helps a Great deal thanks alot. I know what you mean by if im going to do it i may as well do it properly but ill give it a go on a test part with the srp first then if i need ill get the sample menzerna set but i just thought it was a bit much just for the sake of a few swirls which only i can notice. Thanks again:thumb:


----------



## VIPER

BENJY said:


> That helps a Great deal thanks alot. I know what you mean by if im going to do it i may as well do it properly but ill give it a go on a test part with the srp first then if i need ill get the sample menzerna set but i just thought it was a bit much just for the sake of a few swirls which only i can notice. Thanks again:thumb:


No problem :thumb:

Or, you could ask someone if they could spare a bit of Menz 106FA in exchange for something you have? (not me though, I've hardly got any left myself  :lol


----------



## andytran

Good morning all,
Ive spent the past 3 days reading through this thread, and found myself a little confused. One thing I have determined is that there are some members on here who know their detailing!! Pitviper springs to mind!

Anyway, I signed up to do what most do in the start - ask for some advice!

I have a 2007 Golf GTi in metallic black. The paint work isnt brilliant. Has light to medium swirls / scratches all over (last time I buy a black car).

My wife works at B+Q so I can get 20% discount. Ive had a quick look, and after reading through this thread, it looks like the Macallister (£40) or Performance power (£20) orbital sanders are the likely culprits for me to buy.

Question is, which one? Is the Macallister worth paying double for?

Also, and more importantly - what combination of applicator pads and polish should I buy and wheres the cheapest place? 

I only aim to do this once to get the car straight, so Im looking to spend the minimum necessary.

Any advice very much appreciated. I realise many of these questions may have already been answered, but its difficult to tie the information together.

Regards

Andy:thumb:


----------



## VIPER

The on paper spec of both machines is broadly similar as regards speed range and power of the motor (and both are very close to the silverline in this respect as well). I've seen and read some views of the Mac on here which were favourable, but not seen any reports of the other one. 

So on that basis, I think it's a case of getting them in your hands and seeing which feels the most comfortable. I can recall the Mac feeling quite heavy and cumbersome when I first looked at it, whereas the performance power one looks smaller and lighter to me.

The only major difference, from what I recall is that the Mac has a 150mm backing plate as opposed to the 125mm, and so, in theory it would only be able to be used with the larger, regular sized 6/6.5 inch pads.

You have to appreciate that I'm limited in what I can suggest here as not owning either machine and my 2 being different brands and types, it's hard to make a ********** judgement and say 'go for that one' not having used either.

On the polish pad question, however, I can be of help. There is kind of a 'default' package now that go with these machines with the smaller 125mm backing plate (the Silverline, the Performance Power one you've seen), and that's the Menzerna stuff.
I'd go for the orange polishing pad and yellow finishing pad and the sample kit from them as well, which contains everything you'll need to go with those pads and covers a wide range of correction ability with various combinations of pad and polish.

Polished Bliss has the range of these Menz pads at a great price, and most of the DW traders stock the Menzerna polish sample set.

If you decided to go for the Mac however, then the range of pads becomes far greater in the larger size and in this case I'd go for either the Meguiar's Soft Buff range, or a selected few from the Lake Country CCS range. The recommendation of the Menzerna polish set remains the same regardless of the machine or the pad choice.


----------



## andytran

Pitviper,
Thanks for the comprehensive reply, its really appreciated.

My wife checked the performance power, as they had some old stock at the back of the shelves. Same spec but only 1 yr guarantee instead of the newer boxed ones that have a 2yr guarantee. Anyway, the old stock ones are £12.48 each, along with my wifes 20% discount, that means it will cost me a tenner!!!

Got to be worth a punt at that price, just get some pads and polish and away I go!

My son works for Ford so I think I will see if he can get me an old panel to practice on before I attack the GTi.

I will keep you posted as to how I get on!

Andy:buffer:


----------



## Clone

Ordered one of these aswell as the polishes/pads needed thanks to pit viper!

I'll let you guys know how i get on


----------



## mondeomike

My silverlines just arived, pads and polish on order. May get a cheapo pad local just to have a play, got this to try and get rid of faint scratches on the bumper and what looks like a mark from a football that landed on the bonnet spinning, car is a Toyota Celica Gen 7 in black so from what I have read should be soft paint (sure somebody will put me right) Can I take this chance to thank Pit Viper for his input on this thread (read it all LOL) never once snapping after the same questions are asked again and again (what pads, polish etc) 
Top man:thumb:
Will post before and after pics when it`s done :buffer:

Mike


----------



## mondeomike

Just realised still got the mondeo pic showing, now have celica, also never pick a user name that contains your present car :wall: :lol:


----------



## diffinking

anyone know of anywhere that accepts paypal to purchase the silverline ? as ive got funds in my paypal account and could really do with using these before spending the pounds in my pocket. lol

or maybe someone has one forsale after upgrading ? if so stick it up for sale on the according section please 
thnx ryan


----------



## 0asis2007

Hi,

:newbie: to the forum - registered recently but been lurking and learning before I bit the bullet with machine, pads, polish etc.

Just want to reiterate the *Huge* Thanks to all major contributors to this thread (but especially Pit Viper of course...!!) :thumb::thumb::thumb:
Like some of the others members, I have spent the last few days reading this whole thread.....!! :wall::wall::wall:
Finally bought the Performance Power POS400 at B&Q yesterday (£20) and will be ordering the Menz pads and polishes to go with it.

Really appreciate all the info on here, as I was ready to splash out on the Kestrel DA before I discovered this thread.

Pit Viper, may I also thank you (again!) for the excellent post (#1182) which succinctly and comprehensively answers pretty much every Q that people seem to be asking about which pad/polish combo for these budget machines!!!! May I suggest referring anyone who askes the same pad/polish questions directly to this post rather than having to type the answers again (which, surely you must be tiring of by now...?)

Will be happy to share some before/after pics of the correction achieved on my moderately swirled BMW - when the weather allows...........  :buffer:


----------



## VIPER

Thanks very much :thumb:

I'll shortly be editing down this thread to about half it's current length (just leaving in only the important stuff) so it's easier and less time consuming to read


----------



## dotty

diffinking said:


> anyone know of anywhere that accepts paypal to purchase the silverline ? as ive got funds in my paypal account and could really do with using these before spending the pounds in my pocket. lol
> 
> or maybe someone has one forsale after upgrading ? if so stick it up for sale on the according section please
> thnx ryan


hi mate try ebay they sell them on there:thumb:


----------



## Doc

Thanks for all the advice here Viper, just ordered one and about to order the pads from PB.
Expect some incoming queries


----------



## Clone

I got mine today - although it's not what i ordered but would it do the job? http://www.silverlinetools.com/shop/PowerTools/Silverstorm/d9/sd247

It's the 5th one down


----------



## Million_S

After a Few PMs to Viper (Thanks matey:thumb I went ahead and put my order on for the sander....it arrived today!!! Have I missed something in the pages I havnt managed to read?......ITS Green!!!!! Does it need to go back?


----------



## VIPER

Clone said:


> I got mine today - although it's not what i ordered but would it do the job? http://www.silverlinetools.com/shop/PowerTools/Silverstorm/d9/sd247
> 
> It's the 5th one down





Million_S said:


> After a Few PMs to Viper (Thanks matey:thumb I went ahead and put my order on for the sander....it arrived today!!! Have I missed something in the pages I havnt managed to read?......ITS Green!!!!! Does it need to go back?


I've sent a PM to both of you, but just having had a quick look at that site and the specs they're quoting - 430w, 600-13,000 and 125mm backing plate, then it's fine to use :thumb: (although I suspect that 600 should read 6,000? as it seems low for a random orbit machine of this type, but if it's correct then that's even better).

The 'old' orange one was 450w, 4,000-12,000 and 125mm, so roughly the same.

I think it's just the new improved model, so you've done well there :thumb:


----------



## Clone

Ah great! Cheers mate. Going to have a bash at the weekend on either my car or my mums old micra


----------



## Million_S

Thanks mate....Although I cant have a go on mine just yet..spent all day sunday Cleaning it and I am still aching...


----------



## Doc

I have in my artillery :

Menzerna Intensive Polish
Menzerna Final Polish II
Poorboys SSR2

I have ordered:
Menzerna 135 mm Pads
Orange and Yellow

What would be the best to start and finish with?

Im thinking of using Megs glaze or AG EGP and sealing it with Blackfire wet diamond to finish it all off.
I always get confused what glazes are the best and if they are actually required?


----------



## Clone

I think it's advised to start with the least abrasive and work your way up. For example: Use the Menzerna final polish with a menzerna yellow pad. You will get some correction here if you are satisfied then plod along, if not try the intensive polish on perhaps the orange pad as I'm not sure it's meant for a yellow pad - although i think the intensive polish is quite abrasive so maybe it can be used with the yellow pad to make it less intensive?

Pit Viper - i've removed what i think is the rubber bit to try increase the torque. Would it be the rubber ring ( as you said below the Velcro plate? ) Once removed i can see the bearings although they are still secure.


----------



## VIPER

Clone said:


> I think it's advised to start with the least abrasive and work your way up. For example: Use the Menzerna final polish with a menzerna yellow pad. You will get some correction here if you are satisfied then plod along, if not try the intensive polish on perhaps the orange pad as I'm not sure it's meant for a yellow pad - although i think the intensive polish is quite abrasive so maybe it can be used with the yellow pad to make it less intensive?
> 
> Pit Viper - i've removed what i think is the rubber bit to try increase the torque. Would it be the rubber ring ( as you said below the Velcro plate? ) Once removed i can see the bearings although they are still secure.


Yes, that's it - it's only there for containing sanding dust and making sure it's fired up into the collection bag when being used as sander, so it's superfluous to requirements for polishing. However, it will only make a difference if it was coming into contact with the top side of the backing plate in the first place and causing unnecessary friction. Mine, for eg. never did, and although I've removed it, it made no difference as it was very torquey before, but other people's machines have been known to benefit (along with the degreasing of the main bearing if it's been overgreased as many seem to have been).


----------



## VIPER

Doc said:


> I have in my artillery :
> 
> Menzerna Intensive Polish
> Menzerna Final Polish II
> Poorboys SSR2
> 
> I have ordered:
> Menzerna 135 mm Pads
> Orange and Yellow
> 
> What would be the best to start and finish with?
> 
> Im thinking of using Megs glaze or AG EGP and sealing it with Blackfire wet diamond to finish it all off.
> I always get confused what glazes are the best and if they are actually required?


Totally depends on how bad they are really. The natural progression would be the IP on the orange pad, followed by the FP on the yellow, but if they are only very light swirls you could try the FP on the yellow, or failing that the FP on the orange. 
The other combo I've not mentioned is the IP on the yellow, and although I've not tried that specific combo myself, I have used the SSR2 on a finishing pad when I first got the machine and found quite a bit of hazing and micromarring afterwards which can be a bit a problem when trying more abrasive polishes on finishing pads that don't have the cut to work them properly. This resulting hazing is easily rectified by going over with a finishing polish, but it's not the ideal way to go about it.

So try FP on the yellow, if not enough then FP on the orange, if not enough then IP on orange followed by FF on the yellow.


----------



## Doc

Ill let you know how I get on


----------



## Clone

I had a play on a test patch today. It wasn't as good as i expected. I couldn't really see the swirls but the car has alot of very thin hair line type scratches menzar 203 didn't really move much with the orange pad. I had 2 attemts at the same area with the same pad - it did impove slightly but not by much. Perhaps i need to get some Menz IP?


----------



## andytran

Ok, so an update as promised.

I attacked the GTi yesterday with my Performance power orbital sander.

I went over the whole car first with the orange Menz pad and PO85RD 3.02. I have to say, this was incredibly hard work. The polisher just could not handle the polish once the polish started to dry up - it continually locked up when the going got slightly tough! It simply was not powerful enough to power through the polish.
I got there eventually, but it took a long time and was very hard work.

Then I used the yellow pad with PO85RD. What a difference, this then performed exactly as I expected it to. Cutting through the polish without any lockup, it was a heck of a lot easier going.

The car is now in the garage waiting for the Autoglym life shine to be taken off. I left it on overnight as I was too knackered having spent almost 8hrs yesterday playing with the orbital!

I will try to get some photos of the finished results up later.

In summary, I think that for correction of anyhting other than light swirls and scratches, this machine is not up to the job. However, for light correction and general tidying up of paint, this machine is excellent!!!

Perhaps a combination of yellow pad and 3.02 would have solved my issues, but I didnt get a chance to try it - I wanted to keep my yellow pad clean for the PO85RD.

Cheers

Andy


----------



## VIPER

Clone said:


> I had a play on a test patch today. It wasn't as good as i expected. I couldn't really see the swirls but the car has alot of very thin hair line type scratches menzar 203 didn't really move much with the orange pad. I had 2 attemts at the same area with the same pad - it did impove slightly but not by much. Perhaps i need to get some Menz IP?


I'm surprised 203S on an orange pad didn't remove the swirls? How long did you work it for on any given area, and how was the machine spinning the pad - were you able to maintain at least a 1 rev per second under the pressure of about twice the machine's own weight?



andytran said:


> Ok, so an update as promised.
> 
> I attacked the GTi yesterday with my Performance power orbital sander.
> 
> I went over the whole car first with the orange Menz pad and PO85RD 3.02. I have to say, this was incredibly hard work. The polisher just could not handle the polish once the polish started to dry up - it continually locked up when the going got slightly tough! It simply was not powerful enough to power through the polish.
> I got there eventually, but it took a long time and was very hard work.
> 
> Then I used the yellow pad with PO85RD. What a difference, this then performed exactly as I expected it to. Cutting through the polish without any lockup, it was a heck of a lot easier going.
> 
> The car is now in the garage waiting for the Autoglym life shine to be taken off. I left it on overnight as I was too knackered having spent almost 8hrs yesterday playing with the orbital!
> 
> I will try to get some photos of the finished results up later.
> 
> In summary, I think that for correction of anyhting other than light swirls and scratches, this machine is not up to the job. However, for light correction and general tidying up of paint, this machine is excellent!!!
> 
> Perhaps a combination of yellow pad and 3.02 would have solved my issues, but I didnt get a chance to try it - I wanted to keep my yellow pad clean for the PO85RD.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Andy


The Menz shouldn't really by 'drying' up, Andy - how big an area were you working on at a time and how much polish were you using on the pad per area?

If I get chance later tonight or tomorrow I'll try and film another little video clip showing both my Silverline and my Clarke with an old polishing pad that's almost the same as a Menz orange, with some menz polish to show how both of them perform with this combination. It should then help with making sure both the machine and technique are okay for people who are having a few issues (as with both of the above) .


----------



## Clone

Viper, it was on my brothers ford fiesta ( my old car) mk5. The paint felt really dry - i got a little dust but not too much. His paint is in a bad way so probably not the best on to try out on. I'm going to have a go on my car as it's in pretty good condition and with the help of a halogen I'll try spot the swirls outside (hoping the weather was as good as today!) I still feel i would perhaps benefit from a finishing polish? I've pm'ed someone regarding megs 80 and 83 samples


----------



## Dunkwho

For those who missed it there are bargains to be had at B&Q. I popped in today to pick up a sander and found one of the older style packs (white and black rather than grey and black artwork on the box) sitting at the back of the shelf, at £12.98 that's a real bargain. I've already got menz pads on the way, I'm only looking to use this to improve\ease the application of hand stuff like SRP until I get the time and confidence to go for major correction, at this price that's perfect!

Oh - and if it saves any time I got the last one from the Hemel Hempstead branch, and there were no old style pack ones in Luton Dallow Road when I looked at the weekend !


----------



## VIPER

Which machine is this then, mate? 

(oh, and just to update an earlier post, I didn't get chance to make that video clip tonight, so I'll try and do it tomorrow * :thumb

* or over the weekend


----------



## Dunkwho

Its the own brand performance power 125mm orbital in old packaging that's reduced. Still 400w with adjustable speed.


----------



## Danno1975

Pit Viper said:


> SRP will do a grand job by machine, but I always figure if you're going to spend time using the machine and masking up trim etc. you might as well correct it properly?
> 
> Hope some of that helps :thumb:


Hi PV might be a stoopid question but do you just use normal masking tape?.


----------



## VIPER

Danno1975 said:


> Hi PV might be a stoopid question but do you just use normal masking tape?.


Not stupid at all, mate :thumb: Yes I do actually, although it's that blue stuff from Wilkos. Seems to work well enough. When compared against the 3M stuff which has more on the roll, yard for yard it's not actually that much cheaper tbh. but you need to be already making a product order with a trader and add the 3M tape onto that to make it worthwhile, as with the p&p for just a roll of tape would make it quite dear. That's the only reason I use the Wilkos one really.


----------



## boabym

pm me clone I'll give you some menz to try:thumb:


----------



## Danno1975

Pit Viper said:


> Not stupid at all, mate :thumb: Yes I do actually, although it's that blue stuff from Wilkos. Seems to work well enough. When compared against the 3M stuff which has more on the roll, yard for yard it's not actually that much cheaper tbh. but you need to be already making a product order with a trader and add the 3M tape onto that to make it worthwhile, as with the p&p for just a roll of tape would make it quite dear. That's the only reason I use the Wilkos one really.


Thanks mate, I'm ordering all the hear today and think I've gleaned enough information to have a good (safe) go at it on the beemer, just cheekily trying to arrange a garage to use (mine is too small has an air hocky and fusball table in it!!). When I do the mini it'll fit under my pop up gazebo. Saw some advice re using a spritz on the pad to keep it lubed, will my Megs spray I got in the clay kit do the job?.


----------



## VIPER

That'll be the 'Quik Detailer' in the red bottle, right? Yes, that will do fine :thumb:


----------



## Danno1975

Pit Viper said:


> That'll be the 'Quik Detailer' in the red bottle, right? Yes, that will do fine :thumb:


That's it yes. Thx


----------



## mondeomike

*First go*

Thought I`d put up some pics of a quick 1st go with the silverline, it`s a bit ars* up really because I couldnt get the swirls to show, then I read on here (after doing the first bit) to put you finger in shot to give the camera something to focus on, anyway 1st pic is an after of the bonnet of a black Celica after using only one pass with scratch X (waiting for ssr1 and ssr2) more passes would improve this greatly but I`m going to wait for the ssr1 and 2.

















Pic 2 is a before of the bonnet just below the bit I did.
And I know the stonechips need a touch up:lol:
Pads where Menzerna orange, I have a yellow but didnt use that.
Any thoughts on if it should be possable to correct this using the polishes I`ve ordered would be welcome.


----------



## VIPER

Very respectable results there, Mike for a first go :thumb:

Looking at the 2, the 'after' one looks to me like that could be made more or less perfect with SSR1 on a finishing pad, as they look only very light now after the first pass :thumb:.

The other 'before' one should be within the ability of SSR2 on a polishing pad (and you'll probably need to give a light pass over with the SSR1 on the finishing pad the same, to perfect the sharpness and remove any slight hazing you might have left over after the first stage.)


----------



## mondeomike

Pit Viper said:


> Very respectable results there, Mike for a first go :thumb:
> 
> Looking at the 2, the 'after' one looks to me like that could be made more or less perfect with SSR1 on a finishing pad, as they look only very light now after the first pass :thumb:.
> 
> The other 'before' one should be within the ability of SSR2 on a polishing pad (and you'll probably need to give a light pass over with the SSR1 on the finishing the same, to perfect the sharpness and removing any slight hazing you might have left over after the first stage.)


Thanks for the info, after reading about slow down and having to degrease and stuff I was surprised to find it didnt slow down much even with fairly heavy pressure. As soon as I get stuck in with the new polish I`ll post the results.
For £20 you really cant go wrong I was looking at a G220 but I find it hard to justify spending that kind of dosh for something I`d do 2 or 3 times a year if that.


----------



## VIPER

mondeomike said:


> Thanks for the info, after reading about slow down and having to degrease and stuff I was surprised to find it didnt slow down much even with fairly heavy pressure. As soon as I get stuck in with the new polish I`ll post the results.
> *For £20 you really cant go wrong I was looking at a G220 but I find it hard to justify spending that kind of dosh for something I`d do 2 or 3 times a year if that.*


Spot on, and this is exactly the whole principle behind this entire thread and the other related ones that have sprung off it. For a one time correction of your own car (assuming it's not _really_ bad - these machines do have their limits), and then a light freshen up once a year or so after the winter, they make a lot of sense. 
Plus you can also use them for just applying non abrasive polishes / glazes and 'All-in-one' products etc. rather than hand application (and usually get a performance boost from the products as a result).


----------



## Million_S

Just from seeing some of the pictures here...which are getting good results. 

Where I live gets quite dusty (seen it blowing down when I have been polishing by hand). I dont have a garage so do you chaps reckon it would be a better idea to look for a garage or somewhere indoors or could i take a chance on doing this outside


----------



## mondeomike

I do mine in the open cos I have no garage, if its especialy dusty near you maybe yo could get one of those gazebos with sides.


----------



## VIPER

I think you'll probably be okay providing you stick to working small areas at a time and immediately prior to starting each new panel, lightly wipe it over with a damp MF or similar to clear any dust that might have settled.


----------



## ///M Sport

*Wow What A Thread!*

First post on this site. Hello to everyone, this thread made me join this site just to say thanks! :thumb:

Must say I have been seriously impressed by this thread! After getting into the whole 'detailing' scene I realised very quickly that my car was in much need of machine polishing to get the amazing finishes i've seen posted on this site. Being put off buy the price of the G220 and user reported problems ditto with the kestral machine, I decided that machine polishing my car was not going to happen. I just couldn't justify spending that kind of money on a polishing machine that I would use maybe 2/3 a year if I was lucky.

Further to this there was no way I would be paying a pro to detail my car - I do not mean any offence to any detailers on here but the cost of a full detail while affordable to me could be spent better elsewhere (I could just picture the other half while trying to explain it to her lol). For the cost of a full detail I could buy all the 'proper' equipment and still have change. I know a pro would have easily done a far superior job to me, but even if I did 80% of the job a pro would have I would be just as happy as I would have done it myself 

This thread has truly given me an option into machine polishing my car at a realistic cost. I cannot thank Pit Viper and SXI enough! Cheers lads 

///M
Director for Silverline Machines LOL - joke!


----------



## ///M Sport

Hello again,

After digging around the in old mans shed I found this:-

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/32204...er?cm_re=SEARCHPROMO-_-ORBITAL SANDER-_-32204

I think this is pretty much the same kind of machine that has been recommended as the alternative on this thread however I have a few concerns over the power of the machine.

The machine has a 240W motor does this seem powerful enough? It seems strange to me that some of the more expensive machines do not have more powerful motors compared to some of the cheaper machines. Which in turn makes me think the wattage of the motor is not the be all and end all of these machines. However in terms of what I need it for, i.e. paintwork correction, do you think the 240W motor will get bogged down easily when in use?

For example the machine below is nearly £100 but only has a 280W motor:-
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/70456/Power-Tools/Sanders/DeWalt-D26453-GB-230V-Random-Orbit-Sander

Does this then mean that my machine with the 240w motor is not up to the job? Or is the real thing I should be looking for is the torque the motor produces?

Please help! - As the Ryobi machine I have is still brand new I think I could take it back to screwfix if need be.

Thanks in advance,
///M


----------



## mondeomike

Well the Silverline one is 450w but as you already have the Ryobi no harm in trying it, it would take same size pads so if its no good get a silverline or one of the other machines recomended on here and you can still use the pads. I`m sure Pit Viper will give a more compehensive answer


----------



## VIPER

tbh. I'm not sure if machines with only a sub 300w motor will be able to cope with sustained pressure under load. The thing is, you say more expensive machines also have a lower wattage motor than some of the 'alternative' machines mentioned on this thread, but they have a different type of counter balance set up, (with a larger weight and slightly bigger offset), so they don't need such a torquey motor to maintain pad spin speed under pressure - the combination of both those factors will more than make up for any lack of motor power. 

Imagine holding a bucket of water and swinging it around at full arm's length - the weight and distance from the centre point (your body) will create it's own momentum and at a certain speed of spinning, you'll hardly need to put any effort into maintaining the rotation. Compare that with emptying half the water out and holding the bucket at half arm's length - it will now require more effort from you to keep the bucket spinning, in a similar way to these machines needing decently powerful motors to maintain pad spin speed.

With their lighter counterweights and smaller offsets they need a more powerful motor to avoid bogging down when there's a pad attached and polish between the pad and car adding friction.

Even the Clarke with it's 750w motor sometimes struggles if the pad is too big or too much pressure is applied.

By all means try it, but I think the Silverline's 450/430w motor (depending of it's an original orange one or revised green one) is the minimum specs to look at. I'd be interested to hear about how you get on with it though, as I could be proved wrong, of course :thumb:


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

the ryobi one and that dewalt i would leave alone, though they do have a lower power motor they revs like anything and im sure the start at 6000rpm and go to 14000rpm.

6000rpm is towards the maximum the Kestral and Megs out out, and the silverline and clarke have a much lower starting point and only reach 6000rpm when set to around speed 3 or 4 so IMO i would go for one of them if i were you. 

Thats what im gonna do in the next month or so now the summer is getting here. (I will get one at some point Pitt)


----------



## Doc

Got my orbital today and it seems to be like some others on here as it is not spinning freely and the speed setting does not alter the spin speed at all..
Anyone give me a quick guide to sorting it out? I have removed the first pad, removed the holding plate and wiped the bearing, also squirted it with WD40 but it's still sticking, do I have to remove anything further?


----------



## ///M Sport

Thanks for your reply Pit Viper & Sxi. Explains it very well. A very good point made by Sxi - the rpm of the ryobi is 7000 - 12000. Looks like you saved me going through my paint!

Think its gonna have to be returned!

Silverline here I come!

///M


----------



## Doc

Pit Viper said:


> Not getting anywhere with youtube, so uploaded it to one of my photobucket accounts (don't know whether it will work or not on here?)
> 
> Anyway, as I said, the lighting's poor as it was going dark (decided to do on the back corner of the Puma rather than the side of the freezer as I'd originally said). For any polishing newbies viewing this, please note that polishes need to be worked a lot longer than I'm doing here, but for the purposes of just demonstrating the pad spinning under load, there was no need to go through the whole process and make the video unnecessarily long.
> 
> As you can see if I hold my hand on the backing plate I can hold it still and prevent it from spinning up, but once it's up to speed I can't stop it without taking the skin off my hand :lol:
> The machine is on the lowest speed #1 when there's no pad attached.
> 
> After the pad is attached it's still on speed #1 whilst I quickly spread the polish about and then I turn it up to speed #3 for working it in (again this is only to demo the pad speed, I would have worked the polish a lot longer than this if I were doing it properly).
> 
> So, to sum up, if anyone's Silverline isn't performing like this, then it might need some attention as has been very well described by other members earlier on in the thread


Mine spins as fast as yours under load without any load 
Time to take the bearing out then?


----------



## VIPER

Doc said:


> *Mine spins as fast as yours under load without any load*
> Time to take the bearing out then?


Not quite sure what you mean there, mate 

Do you mean when you switch it on with no pad on, it's only spinning at about 2 revs per second like mine is against the car?


----------



## VIPER

Anyone tried their new Silverline 'Silverstorm' ones yet?

I still think the original 'orange' Hi-Spec one was slightly better (on paper at least) with it's side grip handle, lower starting speed (4,000 against 6,000 for the new one), and slightly more powerful motor (450w against 430w).


----------



## Doc

Pit Viper said:


> Not quite sure what you mean there, mate
> 
> Do you mean when you switch it on with no pad on, it's only spinning at about 2 revs per second like mine is against the car?


Yes spot on.
Do I need to take the actually bearing out to clean the grease?


----------



## VIPER

Doc said:


> Yes spot on.
> Do I need to take the actually bearing out to clean the grease?


Ermm....honest answer is I'm not sure, mate  I've not had to this on mine, so I'd only be guessing, I'm afraid. It does seem a very wide difference in how yours and my machine operate for it to be just an over greased bearing that's causing it? I think you'll _have_ to remove it to check it though, but like I say, I've not had mine out, but from memory it looks pretty straightforward.

If you get stuck when you're actually doing it, give me a PM, mate and I'll get mine in front of me and get it to the same stage of strip down so we can compare what mine looks like to yours :thumb:


----------



## ChrisD

Going to give the thread a slight bump! nearly 100,000 views! :thumb:


----------



## diesel_dog

How long do you work the polish in and would ssr 2.5 on a menz pad be far too abrasive for light swirl's??


----------



## VIPER

ChrisD said:


> Going to give the thread a slight bump! nearly 100,000 views! :thumb:


I know, mate - quite amazing really :thumb: I know I've said this a few times, but I am going to edit it down a bit to make it shorter and easier to read. I'm just waiting on the powers that be at DW head office to give me the green light  (in fact I'm on holiday today, it's raining outside so I _could_ be working on it right now).



diesel_dog said:


> How long do you work the polish in and would ssr 2.5 on a menz pad be far too abrasive for light swirl's??


You work any polish until its abrasives have been fully broken down and this is normally indicated by the residue on the panel going to a clear and 'oily' looking film on the surface. The time this takes will vary from product to product, car to car and machine to machine so it's impossible to give a ********** time, I'm afraid.

Which Menz pad? I'll assume the orange 'polishing' one? SSR2.5 on that pad would be what I'd use for 'medium' swirls tbh and followed with a finishing polish/pad combo afterwards. If they _are_ only light, you might be better with SSR2 if you're sticking with the Poorboys or something like Menz 106 FF (or even 203S if it's one of the harder paints). Again, it's really hard to say for certain without seeing a pic of them and what car it is.


----------



## trenchfoot

Pit Viper said:


> I am going to edit it down a bit to make it shorter and easier to read.


Well thank goodness for that! - Ive struggled through it at least a couple of times so far  ...All good gen tho


----------



## VIPER

trenchfoot said:


> Well thank goodness for that! - Ive struggled through it a couple of times so far  ...All good gen tho


I _could_ be doing it right now, but I'm waiting for sections (including this one) to be added to my moderating powers - until that happens I can't do anything I'm afraid 

*Just a note to anyone reading this who has posted at some point in the last 7 months and 128 pages. If one or more of your posts disappear in the course of me shortening down this thread, it's nothing personal, it's purely to make the thing less off putting to read and to make sure only the important bits of info and discussions remain (I dare say a lot of mine will be going as well ).

Cheers. Viper *


----------



## pablo68

Hi everyone,
:newbie:
Having just stumbled across this fantastic site the other day totally by accident i've already gone out and bought a Mac sander/polisher from B & Q. I already have Megs scratch X,nxt tech wax, Autoglym srp and paint renovator. I will be trying to restore the paint finish on my wifes black 2003 MR2 roadster which is covered in swirls and scratches.
My questions are.........
1. Can any of these be uesd with this machine.
2. What make and type of pads should i be using.
Any help will be much appreciated as i really have no idea what i'm doing
Thanks in advance
Paul


----------



## trenchfoot

pablo68 said:


> i really have no idea what i'm doing


...Well funny old thing that. I know that feeling!


----------



## pritesh

pablo68 said:


> Hi everyone,
> :newbie:
> Having just stumbled across this fantastic site the other day totally by accident i've already gone out and bought a Mac sander/polisher from B & Q. I already have Megs scratch X,nxt tech wax, Autoglym srp and paint renovator. I will be trying to restore the paint finish on my wifes black 2003 MR2 roadster which is covered in swirls and scratches.
> My questions are.........
> 1. Can any of these be uesd with this machine.
> 2. What make and type of pads should i be using.
> Any help will be much appreciated as i really have no idea what i'm doing
> Thanks in advance
> Paul


Hi I bought the same Macallister sander as you and was told by Pit Viper to go for these pads.


----------



## VIPER

pritesh said:


> Hi I bought the same Macallister sander as you and was told by Pit Viper to go for these pads.


Yes, those are best ones to go for (just the orange polishing and yellow finishing ones really) as they're already the correct 135mm size suitable for machines of this type. The larger 165mm pads will cause you problems with the machine bogging down and being unable to maintain spin speed under pressure. They are great pads as well, so you're not sacrificing anything by being restricted to this smaller size.


----------



## anewman

Is there any reason not to use this one? http://www.transtools.co.uk/store/p...erstorm-trade-sander-polisher-180mm-240v.html
Silverline 129659 Silverstorm Trade Sander Polisher
# Power: 1200W.
# No Load Speed: 900-3000RPM
# Pad Size: 180mm.


----------



## VIPER

anewman said:


> *Is there any reason not to use this one*? http://www.transtools.co.uk/store/p...erstorm-trade-sander-polisher-180mm-240v.html
> Silverline 129659 Silverstorm Trade Sander Polisher
> # Power: 1200W.
> # No Load Speed: 900-3000RPM
> # Pad Size: 180mm.


No reason at all, and many members on here do have that machine. But it is a rotary not a dual action / random orbital machine and this thread has just been concentrating on those types :thumb:


----------



## devonutopia

I have read the last 4 pages and still so confused when it comes to machine polishing. Can someone "in the know" or at least in the business please PM me a typical shopping list for a budget machine for polishing, and a reasonable list of accessories for tough to middling swirls. I have waxes sorted, but my polishing needs some work.... A PM is likely to result in my business if the advice is top notch.


----------



## anewman

devonutopia said:


> Can someone "in the know" or at least in the business please PM me a typical shopping list for a budget machine for polishing


I recognise your username :thumb:

Having read the thread I understand the machine primarily mentioned is the Silverline Hi-spec random orbital sander 450w available here http://www.mptools.co.uk/products.asp?partno=589670 (£25.40 delivered) or here
http://www.toolshopdirect.co.uk/item.php?site=froogle&sn=289446&atb=y (£25.75 delivered)
Or apparently the Silverline Silverstorm random orbital sander 430w is (I believe) the newer version of that
http://www.transtools.co.uk/store/p...3-silverstorm-random-orbital-sander-240v.html (£33.90 delivered) but has a slightly lower powered motor.
Another mentioned is the MacAllister random orbital sander 450w
http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.j...ndid=9806482&ecamp=trf-005&CAWELAID=266909906 (£26.98 in B&Q).

I am not sure which is considered the best of these machines. But given the extra cost of the 430w one I'd lean towards the first and third ones. I seem to remember reading the B&Q on was maybe a bit heavy/bulkier than the Silverline 450w one though.

I believe all these machines have a fixed backing pad with a hook and loop/velcro backing and are sized at 125mm for which I *think* people are recommending Menzerna pads such as...

http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/menzerna-135mm-compounding-pad.php
http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=568
http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/menzerna-135mm-polishing-pad.php

Although I must admit to being a complete :newbie: too and think one sticky post bringing it all together would be great as this thread is quite difficult to follow


----------



## VIPER

Great post ^^^^ Couldn't have done it better myself - I have taught you well 

In addition to those Menzerna Pads, (although I'd leave the white cutting one, personally as the type of correction that it's for is a little outside the capabilities of these machines), I'd go for either the Menzerna sample set with the 4 polishes in (power gloss, PO85RD 3.02 intensive polish, 106FA final finish, PO85RD final finish), the one with the 3 in (same, but minus the power gloss), or just get a bottle of the 203S as it's got a wide enough cut and finishing range on its own to cope with most light-medium swirls on a lot of car types.

Note about the thread; I can now begin to both edit down this one to less than half its current length, and possibly also, as has been mentioned create some sort of sticky with just product info in.


----------



## pablo68

Pit Viper said:


> In addition to those Menzerna Pads, (although I'd leave the white cutting one, personally as the type of correction that it's for is a little outside the capabilities of these machines), I'd go for either the Menzerna sample set with the 4 polishes in (power gloss, PO85RD 3.02 intensive polish, 106FA final finish, PO85RD final finish), the one with the 3 in (same, but minus the power gloss), or just get a bottle of the 203S as it's got a wide enough cut and finishing range on its own to cope with most light-medium swirls on a lot of car types.


Pit Viper i have these already---*Megs scratch X,nxt tech wax,Autoglym srp and paint renovator*--- are any of them any use for the Mac machine or do i bin them and just use the Menzerna stuff??


----------



## Scottland

AG SRP is a decent polish to start off with IMO, although it has more filler than cut so would work differently to one of the Menz range.


----------



## VIPER

pablo68 said:


> Pit Viper i have these already---*Megs scratch X,nxt tech wax,Autoglym srp and paint renovator*--- are any of them any use for the Mac machine or do i bin them and just use the Menzerna stuff??


Scratch X and SRP are both fine by machine - you'll most likely get the best correction from the Scratch X than the SRP which will cleanse and fill more than it'll correct (although it's correctional abilities are enhanced by machine application over hand methods). You could use the NXT by machine, but you'll not notice any improvement in its performance other than maybe speed of application. 
The Paint Renovator is an unknown quantity for me as I've never used it by machine (and not very much by hand either actually), so I wouldn't want to say one way or the other here, but if I was making an educated guess, I'd say not.

You'll still get far better results with the appropriate Menzerna than any of the above, but defintely don't bin either the scratch X or SRP as they're still great for spot correction by hand, and as I said, will still produce results by machine if you've nothing else to use.


----------



## dotty

cool got on well with this machine and pads however i need a spot pad for the silverline polisher

is there a compatible one or am i going to have to cut down one of my menz pads


----------



## VIPER

dotty said:


> cool got on well with this machine and pads however i need a spot pad for the silverline polisher
> 
> is there a compatible one or am i going to have to cut down one of my menz pads


Technically speaking any 80mm spot pad will fit the backing plate, but the obvious problem is the plate then being bigger than the pad. This is one of the drawbacks of these machines in that whilst spot pads can be used, the exposed area of backing plate poses a danger of coming into contact with the car. As a rule the pad should always be slightly bigger than the backing plate whether it's a full size or spot pad, therefore only allowing the pad itself to ever be in contact with the car.
There has to be some compromises with these machines of course, and this is the one of them, unfortuntely.


----------



## Naranto

Dear PitViper,

I have a problem that only you can answer..........:lol:

Whilst strolling around a car boot sale on Sunday I spotted reconditioned B&Q random orbital sander/polishers, with six speeds and velcro backing to the 5" base. Well at only £5 I thought why not, so purchased said item. :buffer:










Questions are:
• Did I waste my money?
• What Velcro backed pads would you suggest?
• What polishing compounds would work for a novice - I use Meguairs Gold Class wax? Car is a deep purple metallic (SAAB Amethyst) ?
• Is that blue sticky stuff really better than masking tape?

I am sure it is somewhere in this War & Peace of a thread, but I only have a few weeks holiday, so not enough to read it all 

Seriously though, great thread and I would appreciate your input.

If anyone is interested in buying one, this fine piece of B&Q engineering can be sought at Winchester Car Boot, Cheddar. I spoke to the chap who is a trader and there every Sunday.


----------



## DomTom

well, like a lot of people here, 124 pages seems far too daunting. I've read the several first pages and the several last pages but like a lot of people i just feel a bit 

is there no way of knowing which machine performs the best?

i plan on buying polish and the b&q polisher. still reading the relevant guides and looking at several threads on the website to choose the polish i will use, but any advice would be welcomed.


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

The performance tools one and the MAC one from B&Q aswell as the silverline are all likely to perforem the same they have similar low and top speeds and similar powered motors the only real difference will be down to torque but i think these will be very close.

Other then these 3 machines you have the Clarke one which is around £60 now, this provides a more powerful motor providing more torque, and offset is bigger allowing the pad to orbit further then the other 3 machines, so in theory this would be a slightly better machine then the cheaper 3 just because it will more then likely get the job done quicker.

The final step is the Kestrel and the Megs G220, these though more expensive were made with polishing in mind, they will have a good motor in with plenty of torque for the job in mind, they will also be quieter and have a bigger offset then the clarke as they were made for polishing (or rather modded slightly from being a sander). Once again they will get the job doen that much quicker then the Clarke.

All machines seem to be capable of the job, but some will get there quicker and feel that much easier to use.

Performance tools - £20
Mac - £35
Silverline £20 i think
Clarke - £57
Kestrel - From £80
Megs G220 - From £130


----------



## 0asis2007

Clean-my-sxi said:


> Performance tools - £20
> *Mac - £35*
> Silverline £20 i think
> Clarke - £57
> Kestrel - From £80
> Megs G220 - From £130


The MAC is currently on special offer at B&Q for £27 - 
I've just bought one as it seems 'sturdier' than the Performance Tools one, and it comes with interchangeable 125mm/150mm backing plates, and a hard case.
Had bought the Performance Tools model recently, for £20, but will probably return this one now as I haven't actually used it yet.

HTH


----------



## VIPER

Naranto said:


> Dear PitViper,
> 
> I have a problem that only you can answer..........:lol:
> 
> Whilst strolling around a car boot sale on Sunday I spotted reconditioned B&Q random orbital sander/polishers, with six speeds and velcro backing to the 5" base. Well at only £5 I thought why not, so purchased said item. :buffer:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Questions are:
> • Did I waste my money?
> • What Velcro backed pads would you suggest?
> • What polishing compounds would work for a novice - I use Meguairs Gold Class wax? Car is a deep purple metallic (SAAB Amethyst) ?
> • Is that blue sticky stuff really better than masking tape?
> 
> I am sure it is somewhere in this War & Peace of a thread, but I only have a few weeks holiday, so not enough to read it all
> 
> Seriously though, great thread and I would appreciate your input.
> 
> If anyone is interested in buying one, this fine piece of B&Q engineering can be sought at Winchester Car Boot, Cheddar. I spoke to the chap who is a trader and there every Sunday.


Hi, mate :thumb: Okay, questions answered in order 

* No, providing the speed range is something in the region of 4/6,000 - 10/12,000 then you've got a bargain.
* Menzerna 'orange' polishing and 'yellow' finishing pads are the best (and only really) pads to use with these 5" backing plate machines.
* Menzerna sample pack with 'Power Gloss, PO85RD 3.02 Intensive Polish, 106FA final finsh, and PO85RD Final Finish). Or, as an alternative to having 4, you could take a punt on Menzerna's 203S as it's got almost the cut of the Intensive Polish yet still finishes down as well as the 106FA, so has a wide range of capability in one step.
* I don't know about 'better' but I only use the 'blue' stuff from my local Wilkinsons store if that helps 



DomTom said:


> well, like a lot of people here, 124 pages seems far too daunting. I've read the several first pages and the several last pages but like a lot of people i just feel a bit
> 
> is there no way of knowing which machine performs the best?
> 
> i plan on buying polish and the b&q polisher. still reading the relevant guides and looking at several threads on the website to choose the polish i will use, but any advice would be welcomed.


I have started working on editing down the thread but I've only scratched the surface really. I think I'm going to write a short seperate thread with purely machine, pad and polish info along with pics from this big thread and have it as a link in the opening post of this one.


----------



## DomTom

having quickly read through the polishing using a machine guide, i was a bit surprised at the amount of passes it suggested to do. do you really have to go over the polish 3-5 times with one of these machines? (the mac for example, not the high end ones)


viper: sounds good, ill check next week. next weekend i'll give the whole polishing thing a go, hopefully i'll have understood most of it. still need to get all the kit though, including the clay!


----------



## DomTom

Ah i give up, i dont really know where to post as my question is split in several sections of the forum. 
im sorry for being one of those newbies who asks people for this kind of stuff

I know this much, i'll give this proper detailing thing a go using the B&Q Mac orbital "polisher"

i'll get the pads as recommended a few posts ago, the yellow and the orange one, but i am still clueless as to what polishs i need to get. i also need to get myself a clay bar and some lube and some sealant (or will wax do? i use megs wax)

would anyone be kind enough to help? would be very grateful


----------



## VIPER

DomTom said:


> Ah i give up, i dont really know where to post as my question is split in several sections of the forum.
> im sorry for being one of those newbies who asks people for this kind of stuff
> 
> I know this much, i'll give this proper detailing thing a go using the B&Q Mac orbital "polisher"
> 
> i'll get the pads as recommended a few posts ago, the yellow and the orange one, but i am still clueless as to what polishs i need to get. i also need to get myself a clay bar and some lube and some sealant (or will wax do? i use megs wax)
> 
> would anyone be kind enough to help? would be very grateful


I'd recommend the Menzerna range (as I normally do these days ). You can go down 2 roads here; either go for one of the sampler kits with the 250ml bottles in (depending on where you go this will either have the power gloss, intensive polish, 106FA final finish & PO85RD final finish, or a kit of 3 with all those minus the power gloss). 
Or you could just get 1 bottle of Menz 203S as if your paint swirls are only 'moderate' or 'average' then there's a good chance that this will both have enough cut on the orange menz polishing pad, yet still able to finish down to a perfect LSP ready level in the single step (although depending on the paint type and the exact degree of severity of the swirls you could also try it on the yellow pad to start with if they're only light).


----------



## DomTom

okay thanks thats much clearer. 

i would prefer to opt for the simpler, less time consuming option, so the single bottle sounds good, thanks for the recommendation. 
can you use the machine to apply an lsp?

also, is the 203S better than the srp for deeper scratches and swirls?


----------



## 0asis2007

DomTom said:


> Ah i give up, i dont really know where to post as my question is split in several sections of the forum.
> im sorry for being one of those newbies who asks people for this kind of stuff
> 
> I know this much, i'll give this proper detailing thing a go using the B&Q Mac orbital "polisher"
> 
> i'll get the pads as recommended a few posts ago, the yellow and the orange one, but i am still clueless as to what polishs i need to get. i also need to get myself a clay bar and some lube and some sealant (or will wax do? i use megs wax)
> 
> would anyone be kind enough to help? would be very grateful


Thanks for all the great advice guys!!! But this site really makes you spend money..... :wall::wall:

If it helps, here is my recent shopping list:
Purchased after much reading of this thread, and the DW site generally, I think this little lot should get me started nicely.

(Really looking forward to trying it all out, as soon as I get some time!!!!)


B&Q MAC orbital sander
Menz 4polish sample set
Menz orange/yellow pads
Green sonus clay
Megs Last Touch clay lube
Finish Kare 1000p sealant
Foam pads/MF cloths as necessary

I also got some other stuff for general cleaning needs too, but the above items were for the "paint correction" element of my Grand Plan.....!!

Will be posting pics of my progress some time soon....:buffer::buffer::buffer:


----------



## tonyrob

I've just bought:

MAC DA Polisher from B&Q
And, on the advice of the guys at polished bliss, for my BMW they suggested
Menzerna compounding, polishing and finishing pads
Menzerna RD3.02 and 85RD
I also chose Meguiars Quik Detail Clay kit and NXT tech wax.

Can anyone advise on the following:

1. Which speeds to use as max (the MAC goes from 1 to 6) for the zenith point technique

2. Pad, polish and number of pass combinations - I was thinking one with the compounding pad and 3.02, then another with the 3.02 and the polishing pad, then a final with the 85RD and finishing pad (assuming all defects removed in steps 1 and 2, otherwise extra passes at step 1 and/or 2)

What do you guys think?

T


----------



## tonyrob

ok, just re-read the thread and see that white menz pads (compounding) are hardly recommended.. although Rich at Polished Bliss did say I'd need them?

I have a mix of light swirls and heavier marks, so following on from the helpful posts (thanks all, especially Pit), I will go with orange and only work up to white if im not getting results, then finish with a yellow (and the finishing polish).

Would still be interested to know if people recommend the zenith point technique with a MAC and what speeds and number of passes they opt for?

cheers

T


----------



## VIPER

DomTom said:


> okay thanks thats much clearer.
> 
> i would prefer to opt for the simpler, less time consuming option, so the single bottle sounds good, thanks for the recommendation.
> can you use the machine to apply an lsp?
> 
> also, is the 203S better than the srp for deeper scratches and swirls?


Yes, without a doubt. SRP is a great product and although its abrasives are only very mild, you do tend to get more out of them by machine rather than hand application, but Menz 203S will do a far better job on more severe swirls that the SRP wouldn't touch, although you might need to step up to the Intensive Polish for a little more cut. Also SRP will be filling some of swirls rather than removing them, which the 203S won't so you're getting a truer picture of correction with the Menz.



0asis2007 said:


> Thanks for all the great advice guys!!! But this site really makes you spend money..... :wall::wall:
> 
> If it helps, here is my recent shopping list:
> Purchased after much reading of this thread, and the DW site generally, I think this little lot should get me started nicely.
> 
> (Really looking forward to trying it all out, as soon as I get some time!!!!)
> 
> 
> B&Q MAC orbital sander
> Menz 4polish sample set
> Menz orange/yellow pads
> Green sonus clay
> Megs Last Touch clay lube
> Finish Kare 1000p sealant
> Foam pads/MF cloths as necessary
> 
> I also got some other stuff for general cleaning needs too, but the above items were for the "paint correction" element of my Grand Plan.....!!
> 
> Will be posting pics of my progress some time soon....:buffer::buffer::buffer:


You've bought very wisely there and that's a great bundle of kit you have :thumb: Should all work extremely well together and give some great results. I look forward to hearing how you get on with it 



tonyrob said:


> I've just bought:
> 
> MAC DA Polisher from B&Q
> And, on the advice of the guys at polished bliss, for my BMW they suggested
> Menzerna compounding, polishing and finishing pads
> Menzerna RD3.02 and 85RD
> I also chose Meguiars Quik Detail Clay kit and NXT tech wax.
> 
> Can anyone advise on the following:
> 
> 1. Which speeds to use as max (the MAC goes from 1 to 6) for the zenith point technique
> 
> 2. Pad, polish and number of pass combinations - I was thinking one with the compounding pad and 3.02, then another with the 3.02 and the polishing pad, then a final with the 85RD and finishing pad (assuming all defects removed in steps 1 and 2, otherwise extra passes at step 1 and/or 2)
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> T


Although I don't have this machine, on my 2 I normally use speeds 1/2 for spreading the polish around the work area and then turn up to about 4 for working the polish. tbh. on both of mine (Silverline and Clarke) there's not huge amount of difference in the way they perform when working the polish on the 'middle' speeds. i.e speeds 2/3/4 all seem almost the same and it makes no difference to the finished result I've found.

It depends on how bad the swirls are on your car really, and although BMWs have a reputation for having hard paint, you should assume this is the case and start with a more aggressive combo than might be necessary.

I'd start with the 3.02 on the orange pad if I were you rather than the white one, as you may find it's enough to get the result.

Machine polishing is all about getting a result that you're happy with and that preserves the most amount of paint thickness. It's a balance of finding a level that you're happy to live with and that gives you scope to have another machining session at a later date should it be required. Just using your car as an example to illustrate the point - you _could_ go for the compounding pad and even a polish with more cut than the IP and get 100% perfect results, but in doing so you might be leaving the clear coat dangerously thin which has 2 downsides; it's protective qualities are reduced and you've no scope for any further machine polishing.

To use one of my cars as another example; I have a few RDSs and the odd light mark on the XR2 even though I've machined polished it, and whilst I'd love to be able to get these out, I know (with it being the original paint) that it would leave it perilously thin and so I'd rather live with them and preserve the paintwork than strike though and end up needing bits resprayed.

So, the point I'm making here is; try and settle on a happy compromise of achieving 90% (ish) correction and a good thickness of paint so you have options in the future, rather than chasing a 100% level and ending up in trouble. So it's always best to try the least abrasive combo of polish and pad you have to see if it achieves the result you'd be happy with. Of course there is an element of common sense involved as well, and to use tonyrob's car as an example here, it would be pretty pointless to be trying the PO85RD final finish on the yellow finishing pad to begin with as it's clearly not going to do much, but always 'err' on the side of caution and try something that's on the less abrasive side before moving up if required.

Viper


----------



## Dunkwho

I actually used my b&q performance sander yesterday having planned and read and purchased  I just went for SRP rather than trying to correct as this was my first outing and made it around 40% of the way round the car. For my 1st polish I found the SRP didn't work as I'd expect ... I got lots of tiny blobs\clumps of polish in my work area like it was caught on dirt but the car had been cleaned and clayed before I started, and I never reached an "oily" stage where the polish seemed to have been broken down, I just kept at it for 5 or 6 passes and then stopped and wiped away. Working on a flat panel seemed ok but anything with a curve or crease in it caused me speed control issues as I fought to get the pad to spin nicely. Hopefully more practice will improve its use 

Duncan


----------



## VIPER

Duncan, what you describe there does sound like a textbook case of the needing claying, but as you say it's been done, that obviously can't be the case I'm surprised the SRP didn't go to the 'clear' stage as it's relatively easy to get it to do that by hand. What pad were you using btw?


----------



## DomTom

0asis2007 said:


> Thanks for all the great advice guys!!! But this site really makes you spend money..... :wall::wall:
> 
> If it helps, here is my recent shopping list:
> Purchased after much reading of this thread, and the DW site generally, I think this little lot should get me started nicely.
> 
> (Really looking forward to trying it all out, as soon as I get some time!!!!)
> 
> 
> B&Q MAC orbital sander
> Menz 4polish sample set
> Menz orange/yellow pads
> Green sonus clay
> Megs Last Touch clay lube
> Finish Kare 1000p sealant
> Foam pads/MF cloths as necessary
> 
> I also got some other stuff for general cleaning needs too, but the above items were for the "paint correction" element of my Grand Plan.....!!
> 
> Will be posting pics of my progress some time soon....:buffer::buffer::buffer:


just wondering where did you purchase these items?


----------



## Dunkwho

Pit Viper said:


> Duncan, what you describe there does sound like a textbook case of the needing claying, but as you say it's been done, that obviously can't be the case I'm surprised the SRP didn't go to the 'clear' stage as it's relatively easy to get it to do that by hand. What pad were you using btw?


I used a menz orange pad. As it was my first claying session too I guess I could have missed some but I'm pretty happy that there was a very noticeable differenced after the claying stage (and its not exactly tricky!) so I think the problem is elsewhere. Half of me thinks I should have gone in with some menz 203 that I also (happen, by chance!) to have ... I had the "so this is a once a year clean, right?" question last night  so its now or never! :buffer:

Duncan.


----------



## 0asis2007

DomTom said:


> just wondering where did you purchase these items?


Other than B&Q for the MAC (obviously!!) I bought all my bits n pieces from 2 different sites (CleanYourCar and Polished Bliss), and the FK1000p from Serious Performance.

Ended up paying 3 lots of delivery charges, when really I could/should have got everything I needed (or its equivalent) from one place..... Couldn't find the 1000p anywhere other than SP though....??


----------



## VIPER

0asis2007 said:


> Other than B&Q for the MAC (obviously!!) I bought all my bits n pieces from 2 different sites (CleanYourCar and Polished Bliss), and the FK1000p from Serious Performance.
> 
> Ended up paying 3 lots of delivery charges, when really I could/should have got everything I needed (or its equivalent) from one place..... *Couldn't find the 1000p anywhere other than SP though*....??


You wouldn't have as Alex is the sole UK distrubuter for Finish Kare automotive products to the best of my knowledge.

It is a bit annoying when you can get _almost_ everything from one trader apart one item, and then have to pay 2 lots of delivery. I know our traders can't stock everything, but there's always just that odd item that you have to go elsewhere for isn't there?


----------



## pangster

would this machine be any good for doing the following type of correction???:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=20127

:buffer:


----------



## Naranto

Well just an update and again a big thanks to Pit Viper.

Following my initial list of questions, I ordered Menz pads and polish yesterday for my refurbished B&Q orbital. 
I will post the results and procedures on this forum when completed.


----------



## DomTom

annoyingly there are bits and pieces out of stock in both retailers so i too will have to order from both

the orange menz pads are out of stock from polished bliss


----------



## pangster

DomTom said:


> annoyingly there are bits and pieces out of stock in both retailers so i too will have to order from both
> 
> the orange menz pads are out of stock from polished bliss


I found the same thing! - I've bought the Silverline orbital polisher on this thread from MPTools and bought orange and yellow menz pads from Elite Car Care.

Still undecided on which polishes to get though...


----------



## VIPER

pangster said:


> I found the same thing! - I've bought the Silverline orbital polisher on this thread from MPTools and bought orange and yellow menz pads from Elite Car Care.
> 
> *Still undecided on which polishes to get though*...


*MENZERNA!* :thumb:


----------



## pangster

Pit Viper said:


> *MENZERNA!* :thumb:


I didn't quite get what you were trying to recommend Pit Viper??.. was it Menzerna polishes by any chance! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

:thumb:


----------



## VIPER

Menzerna? never heard of 'em - get some turtle wax :thumb:

No, seriously, if you can afford it go for the sample kit with all 4 in, and if you're on a tight budget, just get the 203S as it can more or less do the job of the PO85RD 3.02 Intensive Polish and the 106FA Final Finish on its own.


----------



## pangster

Pit Viper said:


> Menzerna? never heard of 'em - get some turtle wax :thumb:
> 
> No, seriously, if you can afford it go for the sample kit with all 4 in, and if you're on a tight budget, just get the 203S as it can more or less do the job of the PO85RD 3.02 Intensive Polish and the 106FA Final Finish on its own.


Thanks PV - I was thinking the sampler kit might be the way to go! :thumb::buffer:


----------



## GazT4R`

Pit Viper said:


> Menzerna? never heard of 'em - get some turtle wax :thumb:
> 
> No, seriously, if you can afford it go for the sample kit with all 4 in, and if you're on a tight budget, just get the 203S as it can more or less do the job of the PO85RD 3.02 Intensive Polish and the 106FA Final Finish on its own.


Cheers Pit Viper answered my question too.
Ordered the 203 and two Menz pads to got with my MAC for my S60R, although will be practicing on the mother in laws old fiesta first, she don't mind as it's a state. Think the previous owner cleaned it with a sponge and puddle water.

Gaz


----------



## Greg.w

has anyone used both the silverline and the MAC?

ive bought the MAC but can still take it back

the silverline looks smaller and lighter

please help as i want the best poss thanks


----------



## jenks

Hi guys, has anyone tried the Titan R/O from Screwfix?
The spec looks similar to the silverline
430W
4k-12k orbit speed
2.5mm orbit diameter
125mm plate
2.9kg weight
£22.50
I tried to get a sliverline but not available so I could just get this and be on my way.

Sorry if this has already been asked but there is a lot to read to find out.

New to this so just got menzerna orange and yellow pads, waiting for 203s polish and some serious performance clay.
Starting on a budget but may be contagious.:newbie:


----------



## VIPER

Are you sure about the 2.5mm offset? I've never seen any official figures for the Silverline (or the Clarke for that matter), but just making an educated guess from looking at mine, it's definitely more like about 5mm on my Silverline and slightly more on the Clarke).

It's just that 2.5mm seems very small to me and would really increase the time to work and break down polishes. Unless it's been measured from the centre outwards in which case it obviously would be 5mm total?


----------



## jenks

Checked it and it is 2.5mm
Could be the way they measured as theres a DeWalt one,£98, what only has a2.4mm orbit.
Of the 6 in the catalogue the range from 2.4mm-3mm


----------



## VIPER

jenks said:


> Checked it and it is 2.5mm
> Could be the way they measured as theres a DeWalt one,£98, what only has a2.4mm orbit.
> Of the 6 in the catalogue the range from 2.4mm-3mm


Must be measured from the centre point outwards then rather than the total amount of movement of the plate :thumb: As I said, my Silverline 'moves' about 5mm in total from side to side and the Clarke looks to be about a few mm more than that.

So, in that case then the machine you mentioned (which did crop up in this thread somewhere, but it's just as hard for me to find anything in here as anyone else :lol is almost the same as the Silverline and so, on paper, looks fine to use.


----------



## jenks

Cheers, I might give it a go then, also it looks a good shape as it all tapers away from the 125mm plate.


----------



## VIPER

jenks said:


> Cheers, I might give it a go then, also it looks a good shape as it all tapers away from the 125mm plate.


I can't find it on their site, mate - you got a link so I can have a look?


----------



## Katana

Hi, just got my silverline da after ordering from MPTools, just need to ask some questions most of which have probably been answered in this epic thread already.
Really need a new thread(s) with someone covering the various machines in more detail.

I've read bits of this thread, and it seems Menz polish/finishing pads are the thing for it, but can i use the existing velcro backing plate on the machine with those pads or do i need a new one? and will i need to modify the pads at all?

Is there a list that shows what the 1-6 speeds actually are, and how they compare with the PC/G220?

Still stuck on polish, i'm going to be using it on oxidised single stage paint, so i thought an oily polish like Megs #80 would have a good work time and not dry out quickly.
PitViper you've recommended Menz 203S, from reading various showroom/studio threads menz polishes always appear to dry out quickly, are very dusty and sensitive to temperature.
Am i wrong on this thought, or is the 203S easy enough to use for a newbie?

I can't think of any other questions right now, thank in advance for any help.


----------



## jenks

GOOD NEWS, just got off the phone to Kingdom tools and they have managed to get a batch of Silverline 289670.
Getting about 30 in he thinks cost about £28 delivered.
First come first served.
Hopefully with me by Wed:buffer:


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

I went and looked at one of those titans and i thought the build quality was very poor.


----------



## Greg.w

anyone used both the silverline and MAC?

whats best?


----------



## pangster

my Silverline arrived today!... except I wasn't in and the nice people at UPS are going to re-deliver on Monday!  :thumb:

/\ regarding the above post - I don't think there is much to choose between both of them (from what I've read) performance etc seems to be very similar.. although the Silverline seems a little easier to handle due to the design of it..


----------



## Greg.w

hmmmmm but the MAC comes in a nice case etc.might purchase a silverline in the future to see lol


----------



## pangster

Greg.w said:


> hmmmmm but the MAC comes in a nice case etc.might purchase a silverline in the future to see lol


LOL! - yes it does!.. but the case doesn't polish your car!  :thumb::buffer:


----------



## Greg.w

yeh but i also got it for 21 quid.discount woop lol

ill prob buy a silverline if i dont get on with mac but feels good quality etc


----------



## pangster

Greg.w said:


> yeh but i also got it for 21 quid.discount woop lol
> 
> ill prob buy a silverline if i dont get on with mac but feels good quality etc


TBH I think (from what I've read and seen) - t hey are much a muchness anyway! 

Happy polishing!  :detailer::buffer::thumb:


----------



## Katana

I ordered the one on this page http://www.mptools.co.uk/products.asp?partno=589670 had to order using IE, Firefox doesn't work when you try to login for some reason.
I will say the one i received is not the same in the picture on that page, i took a few pics for anyone that is interested in getting one, sorry if some are blurry.

Product label on the machine









Handle closed/open

















Front on where the speed control is, little blurry









A couple of the velcro backing plate, i assume that's what it is


----------



## pangster

Katana said:


> I ordered the one on this page http://www.mptools.co.uk/products.asp?partno=589670 had to order using IE, Firefox doesn't work when you try to login for some reason.
> I will say the one i received is not the same in the picture on that page, i took a few pics for anyone that is interested in getting one, sorry if some are blurry.
> 
> Product label on the machine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Handle closed/open
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Front on where the speed control is, little blurry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of the velcro backing plate, i assume that's what it is


I ordered mine recently as well.. from exactly the same link!.. I hope that's not the one they've sent me as well.. as it'll be getting sent back if it is! LOL!


----------



## Greg.w

thats just the new model of the orange 1 ive been told


----------



## pangster

Greg.w said:


> thats just the new model of the orange 1 ive been told


which is fine... except that's not the specs that were sold to us..

*the new one has:*
430w
6000 - 13000rpm
Disc size 125mm
Variable speed with lock on switch
Dust extraction facility with dust bag
Hook and loop base for quick disc change
No adjustable side handle

*The old one is:*
*450w
4000 - 12000rpm*
Disc size 125mm
Variable speed with lock on switch
Dust extraction facility with dust bag
Hook and loop base for quick disc change
*Adjustable side handle*

TBH if they've sent me the one in the pics above then i'll send it back and probably get the Clarke machine...


----------



## Greg.w

yeh supose your right mate they cant really argue.im keeping the mac now lol.

get a mac.nice case hahahahaha


----------



## pangster

Greg.w said:


> yeh supose your right mate they cant really argue.im keeping the mac now lol.
> 
> get a mac.nice case hahahahaha


PMSL!!!.. I'll wait and see what turns up on Monday... if it's one of their 'new' blue ones .. it'll be getting sent back for a refund and i'll probably just spend a but more and get the Clarke machine.. :thumb:


----------



## crazycallum

Could someone give me a link to buy one of these? Don't really mind which one so long as its under £30 and is reccomended  
Thanks


----------



## Katana

I was looking at the MAC one but there isn't a B&Q within a 60 miles that has one in stock so i ruled it out.
I'm keeping the one i got, i really see no problem with it for the work i want to do, i only posted the pics because the MP Tools site is misleading in it's product page and people should know.

Can anyone answer my original questions here.


----------



## pangster

crazycallum said:


> Could someone give me a link to buy one of these? Don't really mind which one so long as its under £30 and is reccomended
> Thanks


the problem is Callum.. I don't think the 'new' ones are recommended!.. it was the orange Silverlines (aka the old ones) that this thread predominantly relates to!... :doublesho


----------



## crazycallum

Aw man  Is there any in B&Q that people are using? I'm going there tomorrow so could pick one up when the girlfriends not watching!


----------



## Greg.w

yeh the mac 1.its 27 quid


----------



## crazycallum

Whats it look like and does it work well? I've never had one before so wouldn't know where to start


----------



## Greg.w

looks like

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.j...ndid=9806482&ecamp=trf-005&CAWELAID=266909906

yeh most people on this thread use either the mac or the silverline


----------



## crazycallum

Thanks mate  Any idea what pads I can use with it? more for putting on and buffing off wax, make it a little easier


----------



## Greg.w

dont know to be honest mate.ive just ordered 110 quids worth of stuff about 20 mins ago lol

menzerna pads are the perfect fit for these machines.i know that but not sure on polish etc.i got the orange and yellow pads from elite car care


----------



## crazycallum

I'm not really looking at correcting any paint just yet  Just wanting something to make it quickly applying and buffing off wax/sealants... Would I just use finish and polishing pads for that do you think?


----------



## Greg.w

well i think thats the yellow and orange pads ive got mate.1s finishing and 1s polishing


----------



## tonyrob

Anyone used a MAC on an e46 bmw? Just wondering what other peoples results have been? 

I've another thread going in the Machine Polishing section listing that im having trouble removing swirls with menz compounding pad and 3.02 - am keen to know if anyone has had any success with this combo?


----------



## VIPER

To be fair I've always said right from the outset that these types of machines have their limitations and they're only really suitable for light-medium swirling. Anything more severe than this, and especially on notoriously hard to correct BMW paint is a step too far.

In your case I can only suggest something with more cut if you're having no joy with the IP, so Power Gloss might be worth a try. I normally never suggest using PG or cutting pads with these machines as you'll see if you look back at all my posts on this thread, as I reckon that combo is too much for them. The PG will leave some marring and hazing of it's own which will probably need a hit with the IP or maybe something like 203S would be better to follow it with.


----------



## tonyrob

fair enough. i think i need to take a step back and look at all this in context - After the initial disappointment of not having "near-perfect" paintwork when viewed under halogen, the reality is it still looks way better than it would have done if i'd done this by hand AND it has reduce the visibly noticeable scuffs I had.

I think it serves as a reminder to those with Bimma paint that these tools arent strong enough to get perfection, but i think it's also gonna be a bit of a challenge for me to see just what I can acheive with one of these. I'll post if i find a way to get better results.


----------



## pangster

Pit Viper said:


> To be fair I've always said right from the outset that these types of machines have their limitations and they're only really suitable for light-medium swirling. Anything more severe than this, and especially on notoriously hard to correct BMW paint is a step too far.
> 
> In your case I can only suggest something with more cut if you're having no joy with the IP, so Power Gloss might be worth a try. I normally never suggest using PG or cutting pads with these machines as you'll see if you look back at all my posts on this thread, as I reckon that combo is too much for them. The PG will leave some marring and hazing of it's own which will probably need a hit with the IP or maybe something like 203S would be better to follow it with.


PV - is the Clarke machine capable of any level of paint correction??


----------



## crazycallum

Would using one of these with something like poor boy black hole be good at filling swirls on a BMW? If its not correcting BMW paint as good maybe this would be an option?


----------



## VIPER

pangster said:


> PV - is the Clarke machine capable of any level of paint correction??


Well mine performs no better than my Silverline in general terms but I think I may have to do a little bearing degreasing on mine (like a lot of people had to do with their Silverlines, but I didn't, ironically). On paper it should easily outperform the cheaper machines as it's got a much more powerful and torquey motor - 750w against 450w and it has a larger offset throw to the tune of a few more mm, but mine seems to be struggling a bit with pad rotation speed - something I've never had an issue with on the Silverline. So, I think a little stripdown is in order to see if I can improve things in that department. If I can then it should be much more capable at tackling more serious correction which it's specs say it should be able to.



crazycallum said:


> Would using one of these with something like poor boy black hole be good at filling swirls on a BMW? If its not correcting BMW paint as good maybe this would be an option?


I don't think we can totally rule out the silverline and mac as not being able to correct BMW paint full stop. With a cutting pad and suitably abrasive polish it's certainly going to help reduce them over and above what hand methods would, but it's going to be a hell of a lot of work as the resulting hazing/marring from such a 'heavy' pad/polish combo is going to need a fair bit of work itself to remove. This is the reason I've never recommended the Menz white cut pads or the power gloss with these as I know how much work is going to be involved.

As for the PB's BH glaze - yes it would work great by these machines on something like the Menz yellow pads and will get more out of the product than applying by hand, but on swirly BMW paint, it's still unlikely to make much of a reduction as there's a limit to the filling ability of a glaze, even by this application method.

To sum up I think all these machines; Silverlines, Mac, Clarke and the other odd ones that have been mentioned are only capable of:-

Light > moderate swirl correction on most 'normal' paint types (i.e not the very hard types like BMW) using a Menz orange pad and something like Menz Intensive Polish/Megs #83/SSR2, 2.5 etc.

Very light swirl / hologramming / wash marring removal on all paints with either the Menz orange pad again and something like Menz 203S, 106FA, Megs #80, SSR2. Or the Menz yellow pad if the defects are only very slight and/or the car has notoriously soft paint like some Italian and Jap cars.

Refining/jewelling/refreshing the paintwork with the Menz yellow pad and something like Menz 106FA, PO85RD Final Finish, SSR1, 3M Ultrafina. Also any paint cleanser/pre wax cleaners with a little cut like Dodo Lime Prime or any AIO products like Autoglym SRP to boost their performance over hand application.

Glaze application like the Poorboys Black Hole & White Diamond, Clearkote Red and Yellow glazes for eg. on the yellow pad (or any other finish pad either suitably cut to fit the 125mm backing plate machines, or as standard if on the Mac or Clarke's 150mm pad).

Even wax or sealant application on any finish pad, although personally I always prefer to apply all my LSPs by hand.

So, there are many uses for these types of 'budget' machines, and if you can't stretch to a G220, a DAS-6 or a PC, then for the very modest outlay, they are certainly worth considering adding to your detailing kit, as long as you remember that they have their limitations when it comes to more serious paint correction work.


----------



## maersk

I have relacquered and descratched an MB with a Bosch PEX with no problem and removed wet sanding marks with both Pex and Clarke using Menz orange pad and Final Finish polish. The deep scratches went wwith a DAS scratchbuster pad. :buffer: :driver:


----------



## pangster

I think I was maybe a little hasty to dismiss the Silverline Silverstorm Random Orbit as I received it today and it seems like its a fairly well put together piece of kit!.. also seems like it has a pretty decent motor on it as well.. feels very comfortable in the hands and there is nothing to obstruct the view of the pad (which was something I was a little worried about with the MAC)..

I think I'll keep it and give it a blast!  - It would probably cost me more in P&P to send in back anyway! LOL!.. plus if it doesn't work out as a polisher I had a wooden garden table and hut that need rubbing down!  :thumb::buffer:


----------



## pangster

I was just looking at the pics/stats of the Silverline polishers and I've noticed another difference. The orange Hi-Spec polisher spins in the opposite direction from the new blue Silverstorm polisher.... so you can wax on with one and wax off with the other! :buffer::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## bluenose

:wave: Any one looking to buy a Silverline....
I have one for sale with a Menz pad. :buffer:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=115339


----------



## VIPER

bluenose said:


> :wave: Any one looking to buy a Silverline....
> I have one for sale with a Menz pad. :buffer:
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=115339


Moving onto something more heavy duty, matey?


----------



## bluenose

That's the plan. Kestrel DA and / or rotary hopefully.


----------



## Trodd69

I've been using a Titan random orbit sander from Screwfix for about 18 months now with very good results on a black Kia. I use it with the sonus SFX range of polishes and pads and have not come accross any swirling on my car that was too much for the machine. I've just changed cars so have to start from "scratch" again so we'll see how this combo works on Fiat paint.


----------



## VIPER

Trodd69 said:


> I've been using a Titan random orbit sander from Screwfix for about 18 months now with very good results on a black Kia. I use it with the sonus SFX range of polishes and pads and have not come accross any swirling on my car that was too much for the machine. I've just changed cars so have to start from "scratch" again so we'll see how this combo works on Fiat paint.


I don't think you'll have any problems on Fiat paint, mate, in fact if anything, it might be easier to correct :thumb: When I owned a Fiat a couple of years ago, and before I got any machine polishers, I got fantastic correction by hand (to my eyes anyway).


----------



## markbigears

Just been on the phone to kingdom tools .... all the orange silverlines are out of stock. The promised new delivery to them turned out to be a different type and not the silverlines. Anyone know where else stocks them? edit: Anyone bought from powertools2u?


----------



## bluenose

See a couple of posts up. Mine is still available if you want it.....:thumb:
Couple of pads with it as well and I know the rotation is fine.


----------



## markbigears

thanks, but after a new one.


----------



## jenks

markbigears said:


> Just been on the phone to kingdom tools .... all the orange silverlines are out of stock. The promised new delivery to them turned out to be a different type and not the silverlines. Anyone know where else stocks them? edit: Anyone bought from powertools2u?


Yep, mine turned up today and its the wrong one, the new version has a higher starting rpm(6K) so its going back.
Silverline delivered the wrong batch to Kingdom and dont have ant orange ones left.
Getting a full refund, so thanks to Phil for trying to get me one.

I tried powertools2u and also got the new one.

Off to Screwfix to try the Titan as I want to make use of the good weather this weekend:buffer:


----------



## pangster

jenks said:


> Yep, mine turned up today and its the wrong one, the new version has a higher starting rpm(6K) so its going back.
> Silverline delivered the wrong batch to Kingdom and dont have ant orange ones left.
> Getting a full refund, so thanks to Phil for trying to get me one.
> 
> I tried powertools2u and also got the new one.
> 
> Off to Screwfix to try the Titan as I want to make use of the good weather this weekend:buffer:


Is 6k really that big of an issue? - given that is the no load rating and doesn't really bear any relation to OPM.. the new unit also has a soft start ability as well so I don't think it will make too much of a difference TBH?..


----------



## markbigears

yeah but its not orange:thumb:


----------



## jenks

I'm not sure if the 6k speed is actually much of an issue, its just from the first few posts it seems that the lower the slower speed the better.
As a newbie to machine polishing its going to be easier to mess up with a higher speed while learning.


----------



## BENJY

bluenose said:


> :wave: Any one looking to buy a Silverline....
> I have one for sale with a Menz pad. :buffer:
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=115339


ill take it off your hands mate:thumb: check the thread


----------



## VIPER

pangster said:


> Is 6k really that big of an issue? - given that is the no load rating and doesn't really bear any relation to OPM.. the new unit also has a soft start ability as well so I don't think it will make too much of a difference TBH?..





jenks said:


> I'm not sure if the 6k speed is actually much of an issue, its just from the first few posts it seems that the lower the slower speed the better.
> As a newbie to machine polishing its going to be easier to mess up with a higher speed while learning.


To both ^^^ no it's not such a big issue. The original 'orange' one has a starting speed of 4,000 as we know on speed 1 of 6. I can say now that many a time I've forgot to turn down to 1 for spreading the polish and it's been on about speed 3 which would equate to about 6,000 by my reckoning and it's been fine. The bulk of the work on the orange one (i.e the actually polishing part) is done on about speed 3/4 so with the new one, if you keep to speeds 2/3 it's going to be roughly the same.

I really wouldn't get too hung up on this whole speed issue with these machines as it's OPM - Oscillations Per Minute we're talking here - the pad still only rotates on the paintwork at 1-2 revs per second and is governed by the pressure you're applying. If we were talking rotaries then the speed range and starting speeds are critical, but with machines like this whether it has a starting speed of 4 or 6,000 really makes very little difference.

And also remember that to compare these with the likes of the G220 and DAS-6 isn't comparing apples with apples either, because these 'budget' machines have a smaller lateral offset which, to a degree, counteracts the higher OPM speeds and means the actual speed of the pad movement in real terms is very similar.


----------



## tonyrob

Im using the mac, and start on 1 to spread, then move up to 4 to work the polish. If speed is not an issue, then is there any problem moving up to 6? 

Would this work the polish quicker, providing it doesnt make it dry up too quickly?


----------



## Trodd69

PitViper,
I'll take your comment as a warning and start extra gently when I get round to polishing the Fiat.
Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## VIPER

My Mum's just changed her Clio for another one and although I've not seen it yet, I'm expecting it to have the usual swirling on the paint, so I'll be posting some before and after pics from using both the Silverline and the Clarke. I can't be doing too much experimenting, of course, it's not a scrap panel, it's my dear Mum's car lol! but it should give an indication of which one I think is the better machine. On paper you'd think the Clarke would have it nailed being more powerful and with a larger offset, but let's just say I think you might be surprised at the outcome


----------



## fleagala

Which pads should be used with the silverline one for swirl correction? (duragloss swirl remover for me) and do they have to be cut down?


----------



## jenks

Cheers Pit Viper, I'll bow to your knowledge and keep the "wrong one" I got sent yesterday and give it a go. 
Picked a scrap bonnet up today to practice on first.


----------



## VIPER

fleagala said:


> Which pads should be used with the silverline one for swirl correction? (duragloss swirl remover for me) and do they have to be cut down?


Menzerna orange and no they don't, that's why they're the 'default' pads for these machines at the 135mm size :thumb:


----------



## robbie_d

Right then.

I've bought myself a MAC from B&Q, Menzerna orange and yellow pads and a Menzerna 4 pot sample pack.

It better not bloody rain this weekend...


----------



## pangster

robbie_d said:


> Right then.
> 
> I've bought myself a MAC from B&Q, Menzerna orange and yellow pads and a Menzerna 4 pot sample pack.
> 
> It better not bloody rain this weekend...


that makes 2 of us hoping for decent weather as I just received my SSR2!  :buffer::thumb:


----------



## robbie_d

pangster said:


> that makes 2 of us hoping for decent weather as I just received my SSR2!  :buffer::thumb:


We should know better than to hope for good weather on a bank holiday weekend.

Will.....never.....learn.....


----------



## pangster

robbie_d said:


> We should know better than to hope for good weather on a bank holiday weekend.
> 
> Will.....never.....learn.....


LOL!! - decided not to take the chance and went over the my folks to use their garage - I got pretty decent results I think? LOL!:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=115872

The 50/50 shots in the above thread were after I had completed the SSR2 with Menz orange pad and had only done one half with the Menz yellow pad and AG SRP.

The one criticism I do have of the new (blue) Silverline Silverstorm DA is that you need to ensure that the pad is EXACTLY central to the base plate.. as if it is out a little bit then it WILL catch on the black plastic ring/dust extractor..

HTH


----------



## robbie_d

pangster said:


> LOL!! - decided not to take the chance and went over the my folks to use their garage - I got pretty decent results I think? LOL!:
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=115872
> 
> The 50/50 shots in the above thread were after I had completed the SSR2 with Menz orange pad and had only done one half with the Menz yellow pad and AG SRP.
> 
> The one criticism I do have of the new (blue) Silverline Silverstorm DA is that you need to ensure that the pad is EXACTLY central to the base plate.. as if it is out a little bit then it WILL catch on the black plastic ring/dust extractor..
> 
> HTH


You've got some great results there.

I've spent the day trying out my MAC on my dad's old Daihatsu Fourtrak, then on my mum's Megane Scenic, which neeed a spruce up before being sold. Wanted to practice first as never done machine polishing before.

Stupidly left my camera at home so no pics, but now I've had a bit of practice I'm all set to do my Corrado tomorrow (the swirling on which has become far more evident now the sun is out).

Fingers corssed for weather tomorrow!


----------



## pangster

robbie_d said:


> You've got some great results there.
> 
> I've spent the day trying out my MAC on my dad's old Daihatsu Fourtrak, then on my mum's Megane Scenic, which neeed a spruce up before being sold. Wanted to practice first as never done machine polishing before.
> 
> Stupidly left my camera at home so no pics, but now I've had a bit of practice I'm all set to do my Corrado tomorrow (the swirling on which has become far more evident now the sun is out).
> 
> Fingers corssed for weather tomorrow!


thanks!  - let us know how you get on using the MAC..


----------



## wibble

The idea of getting a DA has been at the back of my mind for a while, but the price has always put me off, but the idea of a machine for around the 20 quid mark is very appealing 
As I've been made redundant, I've got plenty of spare time at the moment until I find another job (another reason why spending as little as possible on a machine is good!) I've been thinking about sorting out the scratches and stone chips that have appeared over the winter and having a go at swirl removal :buffer: but there are a few things I'm not sure of, appologies if these have already been asked:
From reading through this thread I gather that the silverline orange hi-spec has been superceded by a blue, more powerful model. Am I better off having a look around for somewhere that still has the orange one in stock or is the new blue one ok?
I also gather that the menzerna pads are the ideal fit for the silverline, but I'm not sure which pads and polish combo to go for, I'll be using on my Astra coupe which has metallic paint (europa blue) but have no idea whether Vauxhall paint is considered hard or not (plus the front bumper and bonnet have been replaced, so I suppose the paint there could be a different hardness), I'm completely new to machine polishing, so any suggestions welcome. 
I currently use SRP to fill the swirls topped off with Collinite 476, which raises another question, do you use your DA to apply and remove wax as well and if so what pad(s) would you use? From reading the descriptions on Elite Car Care I get the impression that all of the pads have some level of cutting action, which I would have thought would be bad for waxing 
I'm sure I've seen somewhere that SRP is rather good when applied with a DA, but are there any advantages to using it for wax? Obviously I wouldn't be able to apply 476 with it as it's not liquid 
Cheers
Wibble


----------



## pangster

wibble said:


> The idea of getting a DA has been at the back of my mind for a while, but the price has always put me off, but the idea of a machine for around the 20 quid mark is very appealing
> As I've been made redundant, I've got plenty of spare time at the moment until I find another job (another reason why spending as little as possible on a machine is good!) I've been thinking about sorting out the scratches and stone chips that have appeared over the winter and having a go at swirl removal :buffer: but there are a few things I'm not sure of, appologies if these have already been asked:
> From reading through this thread I gather that the silverline orange hi-spec has been superceded by a blue, more powerful model. Am I better off having a look around for somewhere that still has the orange one in stock or is the new blue one ok?
> I also gather that the menzerna pads are the ideal fit for the silverline, but I'm not sure which pads and polish combo to go for, I'll be using on my Astra coupe which has metallic paint (europa blue) but have no idea whether Vauxhall paint is considered hard or not (plus the front bumper and bonnet have been replaced, so I suppose the paint there could be a different hardness), I'm completely new to machine polishing, so any suggestions welcome.
> I currently use SRP to fill the swirls topped off with Collinite 476, which raises another question, do you use your DA to apply and remove wax as well and if so what pad(s) would you use? From reading the descriptions on Elite Car Care I get the impression that all of the pads have some level of cutting action, which I would have thought would be bad for waxing
> I'm sure I've seen somewhere that SRP is rather good when applied with a DA, but are there any advantages to using it for wax? Obviously I wouldn't be able to apply 476 with it as it's not liquid
> Cheers
> Wibble


I'll let someone more experienced answer the more technical parts of your post regarding polish/pad combos and paint hardness!! 

On my BMW (which has hard paint) - I used Poorboys SSR2 on an Orange Menzerna Pad and then went over this with AG SRP on a Yellow Menzerna finishing pad - this was topped off with AG EGP and then a coat of AG HD Wax and I was very pleased with the results! 

Regarding the waxing - this still goes on and comes off the traditional way!


----------



## r1cho

*Got my silverline DA orange....*

Hi all, first post so bear with me..

I've got the Silverline DA, turned it on and ... it jiggles a lot but doesn't really spin around with much force. Just a bit confused because I thought it would do both? Moreover, I dont think it would take any pressure to slow the spin down to 2 (or even 0) revs per second. Am I doing something wrong, or is the unit faulty? Feels more like a vibration sander than a DA rotary sander (as I had imagined one!).

Also, havent bought any special polish to use as I want to use up my old stuff if possible. I have the following in my garage and was wondering if you would bin and buy new or use up (happy to make do with a less than ultimate finish for time being as long as none of it causes damage!):

Mer Ultimate Polish
T-Cut color fast scratch remover silver & blue.

Aldo interested in any opinions on the following:
AutoGlym intensive tar remover
AutoGlym car glass polish
AutoGlym vinyl and rubber care
AutoGlym bumper care

Halfords wheel cleaner
Halfords interior trim treatment matt wax formula
Halfords exterior trim treatment liquid resin formula
Halfords advanced car wash cationic formula

Finally (off topic - apologies!), I read in my VW manual that you're not supposed to use solvent based cleaners for the interior, but thats what the AG cleaners seem to be. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks for any advice you can provide,

Rich.


----------



## wibble

pangster said:


> I'll let someone more experienced answer the more technical parts of your post regarding polish/pad combos and paint hardness!!
> 
> On my BMW (which has hard paint) - I used Poorboys SSR2 on an Orange Menzerna Pad and then went over this with AG SRP on a Yellow Menzerna finishing pad - this was topped off with AG EGP and then a coat of AG HD Wax and I was very pleased with the results!
> 
> Regarding the waxing - this still goes on and comes off the traditional way!


Thanks, at least if I'm doing the rest by machine my arm won't be aching by the time it comes to waxing


----------



## VIPER

As I said on here last week, I machined my Mum's new Clio yesterday (new to her, not a new car) and so had a chance to compare the original 'orange' Silverline with the Clarke on the same car with the same pad/polish combo to see which I think is better.

The short answer is the Clarke - but only just, and it's this one for any new visitors to this thread who might not know which one I'm referring to as it's not had a mention for a while:-










Both machines were able to take out 90+% of the swirls with a Menz orange polishing pad and 203S (I selected this as time was against me and I wanted something with enough cut but that wouldn't require a second pass with a finishing polish, and to be fair the swirls weren't bad enough to need something like Intensive Polish anyway).

The Clarke was marginally quicker to break down the polish than the Silverline and it's a nicer machine to hold and operate, although that's obviously just my personal interpretation of it. I could have achieved the same results with the Silverline but it would have just taken a little longer, so I still think it's a very capable machine and for the money, it's a bargain. Shame it's been replaced with the newer model which I haven't tried and so can't say if that one's as capable?

I was planning to to do a full picture thread with this, but as time and more annoyingly the weather was agaisnt me yesterday (kept showering after nearly every panel, despite this 'scorching weekend' we were promised  and I had to keep packing the gear away every 15 minutes )), so I just took a simple before and after shot from using the Clarke, which after the initial comparison with the Silverline, was the machine I used for the rest of the car using the 203S and the Menz 'orange' as I said earlier.

The only real criticism I have with the Clarke, is the ridiculously short power cable, which I'm going to have to lengthen the same as I did with the Silverline. Other than that, I can't fault it.



















A final observation I've made with both machines, is that their perfomance seems to improve with use. By that I mean straight out of the box, they can be a little reluctant to maintain pad revolution speed under pressure (and the Clarke was worse than the Silverline in this respect), but after a few machining sessions, they seem to 'gain' some power and torque. They don't actually gain, of course, I think it's just the fact that the bearings tend to be overgreased from the factory and as this excess is removed from use, they seem to perform far better.

As we've discussed on here at some length, both machines also benefit from having their dust damping 'skirts' removed as well as the removal of any excess greasing. So, as both of mine have had this done and have 'bedded' themselves in from use to shed eny excess lubrication, they are both able to maintain a pad spin speed of between 1-4 revs per second depending on the pressure applied.

So, anyone buying a Clarke, a Silverline or any other, you need to remove any kind of plastic 'skirt' sitting between the top of the backing plate and the body of the machine as any contact between this part and the backing plate will obviously restrict its free spinning ability. And have a look at the amount of grease around the main bearing as this can also adversly affect the 'drive' of the plate is it's excessive.


----------



## fleagala

has anyone had any luck with anything from halfords? 
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/...uctId_188980_langId_-1_categoryId_165640#dtab
or
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/..._productId_189810_langId_-1_categoryId_165640


----------



## Pugnut

Looking at getting into machine polishing myself - was going to order a G220 till i saw this thread 

Im struggling to scroll through the 134 pages here but as a newbie to machine polishing would any of these machines be user friendly as ive heard if used incorrectly the G220 stops you burning through paint if used to hard? 

Also is there any alternatives to the Merzena pads and polishes? The Meguiars ones any good?


----------



## VIPER

Pugnut said:


> Looking at getting into machine polishing myself - was going to order a G220 till i saw this thread
> 
> Im struggling to scroll through the 134 pages here but as a newbie to machine polishing would any of these machines be user friendly as ive heard if used incorrectly the G220 stops you burning through paint if used to hard?
> 
> Also is there any alternatives to the Merzena pads and polishes? The Meguiars ones any good?


Any DA machine, be it a G220 or one of these 'alternative' (sander) machines work in the same way by coming to a complete stop if you press on too hard (they will still be oscillating, but the pad rotation will stop with too much pressure). So, they are very user friendly in that respect, but as with any kind of machine polishing care still needs to be taken not to use a too agressive and abrasive pad and polish combo as if the paint's thin, for whatever reason, it's not impossible to cause damage. It is however unlikely with machines of this type if you're sensible and adopt 'a least abrasive combo first and working up' approach.

As for pads and polishes, if the machine has a 150mm backing plate then you have the same range of pads, including the Meguiars soft buff range, that you do with any other machine, but as experience has shown, with the 125mm backing plate machines, they don't work nearly as well with the bigger pads and so the 135mm Menz ones are ideal. You could, of course, do what I did initially over a year ago before this thread started, and trim down a larger pad to the 135mm size, and so in theory every pad is an option.


----------



## Pugnut

Right ok brilliant - might give one a shot then? The silverline one looks faily cost effective so might go for that 

Do you have a link to the polishes i should go for? I was recommended meguiars 80 and 83 to start with?


----------



## wibble

Right, I've taken the plunge and just ordered a Silverline Hi-spec from MP Tools, I wonder whether I'll get the orange or the blue one.
Just need to order some pads and polish now, but think I'll pop out to the shed and see what I'm running low on first - looks like my credit card is going to take another kicking


----------



## rusty

I bought the 240V one yesterday and took it back today. On turning it on it managed to shake its own towelling bonnet off. No speed control either - looked pretty rubbish. Personally I'd rather spend a bitv more and buy something fit for purpose. Having said that, I didn't actually try it on my car because I already had one eye on taking it back but maybe that says something itself.



fleagala said:


> has anyone had any luck with anything from halfords?
> http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/...uctId_188980_langId_-1_categoryId_165640#dtab
> or
> http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/..._productId_189810_langId_-1_categoryId_165640


----------



## VIPER

rusty said:


> I bought the 240V one yesterday and took it back today. On turning it on it managed to shake its own towelling bonnet off. No speed control either - looked pretty rubbish. Personally I'd rather spend a bitv more and buy something fit for purpose. Having said that, I didn't actually try it on my car because I already had one eye on taking it back but maybe that says something itself.


Yeah, they're no good at all for paint correction, and you don't need to spend more - less in fact if you've paid £29.99 already.


----------



## rockhopper

Hi Guys, total rookie to this game so I'd appreciate some advice.

After reading all the fantastic info in this thread, I decided to purchase the mac from B&Q and the yellow and orange Menzerna pads as well as a bottle of Menzerna 203s polish.

Well I've just come in from having a go on my black mondeo and got to say I'm a little disillusioned.

The mac didn't appear to have any guts at all, either free spinning or with the smallest of pressure coming to a halt, the thing even started to smoke a little after about 5 mins use and I genuinely wasn't applying hardly any pressure at all.

After struggling on with it the best I could It doesn't appear to have made much impression to the paint at all.

I have read as much info as possible and watched some youtube vids, but feel I am missing the message somehow, any advice would be greatly appreciated and if there's anyone in the Bournemouth area that would like to show me the light that would be great.

Cheers Andy


----------



## VIPER

rockhopper said:


> Hi Guys, total rookie to this game so I'd appreciate some advice.
> 
> After reading all the fantastic info in this thread, I decided to purchase the mac from B&Q and the yellow and orange Menzerna pads as well as a bottle of Menzerna 203s polish.
> 
> Well I've just come in from having a go on my black mondeo and got to say I'm a little disillusioned.
> 
> The mac didn't appear to have any guts at all, either free spinning or with the smallest of pressure coming to a halt, the thing even started to smoke a little after about 5 mins use and I genuinely wasn't applying hardly any pressure at all.
> 
> After struggling on with it the best I could It doesn't appear to have made much impression to the paint at all.
> 
> I have read as much info as possible and watched some youtube vids, but feel I am missing the message somehow, any advice would be greatly appreciated and if there's anyone in the Bournemouth area that would like to show me the light that would be great.
> 
> Cheers Andy


Someone with a Mac will have to chip in here to help you as I've had nothing to do with this machine I'm afraid, and so can't advise on if the bearings come overgreased out of the box and/or if there's any restricting plastic 'dust damping' ring between the top side of the backing plate and the body of the machine.

Which sized backing plate were you using btw?

As you can see from my post on the previous page, I got 90% correction using the 203S and orange pads at the weekend and with the Clarke I can only get the pad to come to a stop by applying excessive (and too much) pressure.

I don't think there's a fault with your machine (or your pad & polish combo) as such, I think it just needs a bit of 'tweeking', but another Mac owner will have to tell you what needs doing.


----------



## Dunkwho

that's not right (but I suspect you knew that! ). I wonder if you've got a duff sander if it can't apply any grunt to the task and is smoking! I've got the B&Q performance sander, I've only had a chance to try it on 1/3 of my car so far (damn rain on MY day this weekend - grrrr) but it span neatly when used stopping if i pressed too hard or got to a curvy bit that didn't fit the pad flat properly. I wasn't able to get the smooth motion in PV's video but that's my aim, i think i was pushing too hard trying to get 1 rev\second when maybe a bit less pressure was needed to keep things moving. Also remember that its not just the rotation with these but the random orbit which is doing the task - if you try holding the head as you turn it on (I used a tough glove just in case) you'll experience the "shake" of the random orbit while you're holding the head from rotating, its this shake which does half of the work. DO NOT try grabbing once the sander is running, only from cold.

There's a forum dedicated to polish choice! The advantage of the menz polishes is that they come in small bottles so you can get a few choices - clean your car do a pack which PV usually recommends. I've got a small bottle of 203 from polishedbliss when I ordered the pads but it might be too aggressive for my honda paint. Also see the samples thread for some megs 203 (under the "wee sample thread" heading) @ £7 for 250ml, or the megs 80 and 83 thread ... I've got all 3 of these sample
s to play with now. TBH I suspect more aggressive polishes are outside of the ability of these machines.

EDIT : The guru got his reply in before me


----------



## rockhopper

Many thanks for the reply's so far, I do wonder if it is a duff machine as it's certainly struggling to spin with the slightest pressure, probably my rubbish technique though !!

I was using the smaller 125mm backing plate, there does appear to be quite a bit of grease around the base that is visible under the base plate, not sure if that's significant to what your implying Viper.

Are the dedicated units i.e the das-6 much more torquey than the cheaper ones, if I have no joy with it I can see me taking it back for a refund and splashing out the extra cash for a pucker tool.

Has anyone else using a mac experienced any smoking from it ?


----------



## VIPER

rockhopper said:


> Many thanks for the reply's so far, I do wonder if it is a duff machine as it's certainly struggling to spin with the slightest pressure, probably my rubbish technique though !!
> 
> I was using the smaller 125mm backing plate, there does appear to be quite a bit of grease around the base that is visible under the base plate, not sure if that's significant to what your implying Viper.
> 
> Are the dedicated units i.e the das-6 much more torquey than the cheaper ones, if I have no joy with it I can see me taking it back for a refund and splashing out the extra cash for a pucker tool.
> 
> Has anyone else using a mac experienced any smoking from it ?


Yes, take the plate off altogether and have a look around the main steel bearing. If it's caked in grease, then you can afford to wipe some of this away.

With the G220 and DAS-6, it's not so much a case of them being more powerful or torquey, it's more to do with the set up of their counterweights and with being larger and usually further away from the centre point, they therefore have additional energy from centrifugal force which helps to maintain pad spin speed under load.

Having said that, as I've mentioned before, both my Silverline and Clarke can spin a 135mm pad under the correct load for polishing at anything betwen 1 and about 4 revs per second with no trouble, but they've both had their dust damping rings removed and their main bearings aren't over greased. Not having one to look at, I'm not sure if the Mac has any such plastic ring between the plate and the machine?

When you hold your hand on the plate and switch on, you should have to apply a fair bit of pressure to stop it wanting to rotate - if you can merely rest your hand on it and still stop it spinning then something's wrong.


----------



## MadOnVaux!

Does anyone know if these are any good?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EINHELL-BES12...8|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

I know it says sander, but they all do lol....and sorry if this one has been mentioned somewhere in this thread...I havent read it ALL


----------



## VIPER

Hasn't been mentioned, no. But no specs are given i.e speed range, variable speed control, motor power etc. so without knowing any of that, and making an educated guess just looking at it, I'd say it's low powered and no variable speed, so not suitable, but again I'm only assuming here.


----------



## MadOnVaux!

Pit Viper said:


> Hasn't been mentioned, no. But no specs are given i.e speed range, variable speed control, motor power etc. so without knowing any of that, and making an educated guess just looking at it, I'd say it's low powered and no variable speed, so not suitable, but again I'm only assuming here.


Found specs on it:

380w motor and 6000-11000rpm speed range


----------



## MadOnVaux!

Although that model appears to be an old one....their newer model looks better:

http://einhell-uk.co.uk/index.php?id=2&br=12&sb=22&gp=227

Beefier motor and faster range.


----------



## admg1

Just a little heads up to say the Mac sander from B&Q has been reduced to £26.49. 

I'm going to pick one up tomorrow if they've got any in.


----------



## MadOnVaux!

admg1 said:


> Just a little heads up to say the Mac sander from B&Q has been reduced to £26.49.
> 
> I'm going to pick one up tomorrow if they've got any in.


Just read another thread on the Mac and someone said they were quite heavy?


----------



## admg1

MadOnVaux! said:


> Just read another thread on the Mac and someone said they were quite heavy?


I picked up the display model today and i didn't think it was that bad. 
I dont have either the silverline or clarke so i cant compare the weight with them but it felt alot lighter than my rotary.


----------



## VIPER

Silverline and Clarke are both around 2kg and with the design of the Clarke, it's very easily used with one hand around the main body of the machine, although 2 are obviously the 'proper' way to do it. I'm sure the Mac is heavier than either although I'm not 100% sure, it just felt like it when I held one in the shop.


----------



## RedUntilDead

The Mac weighs 3kg. The g220 and das 6 are both 2.23kg.

I have the MAC, its nice and smooth in operation and not too heavy IMO.

Si


----------



## VIPER

It seems I've underestimated the weight of the Clarke as it's 2.9kg when I'd said 'around' 2kg earlier...oops  Still doesn't feel heavy in use at all, so the Mac at 3kg shouldn't either really I suppose.


----------



## wibble

My Silverline arrived today and it's one of the new blue ones, it doesn't seem a bad bit of kit though and the head seems to spin freely enough when I plugged it in to try earlier.
I've already removed the black ring just above the backing plate, to give a bit more clearance between the pad and machine, it's just a shame that the dust extraction bit is part of the main case moulding so can't be removed, then again I've got no idea if you could remove it on the orange one, it just looks like it can to me in the pics I've seen of it.


----------



## baptistsan

It doesn't, my orange one arrived today.

Came from www.toolbox.co.uk

So why do I need to remove the black rubber ring?

Which pads should I now be looking at?


----------



## wibble

baptistsan said:


> It doesn't, my orange one arrived today.
> 
> Came from www.toolbox.co.uk
> 
> So why do I need to remove the black rubber ring?
> 
> Which pads should I now be looking at?


I don't know whether you'd need to for the orange one if it's made of rubber, the black ring on the blue one is hard plastic, I took it off as I didn't fancy it coming into contact with the car.


----------



## baptistsan

Thanks Wibble.

I'll put the screwdrivers away


----------



## VIPER

baptistsan said:


> It doesn't, my orange one arrived today.
> 
> Came from www.toolbox.co.uk
> 
> So why do I need to remove the black rubber ring?
> 
> Which pads should I now be looking at?


Remove it anyway, mate - it's only a 2 minute job and it seems to spin better without it on. It's of no benefit for polishing purposes anyway :thumb:

Pads - Menzerna 135mm orange and yellow.

Polish - My personal recommendation - Menzerna (either the 3 or 4 bottle sample kit or just the 203S on its own). Or Meguiar's #83 and #80 would be an alternative.


----------



## baptistsan

Thanks Pit. Those are the pads I went for anyway. Will give them a go with some of the stuff I already have. Will then invest in some new polishes if I don't get the results.

Polished Bliss seem to be the cheapest place to get them from, just a heads up for anyone else wanting some


----------



## tonyrob

rockhopper said:


> Many thanks for the reply's so far, I do wonder if it is a duff machine as it's certainly struggling to spin with the slightest pressure, probably my rubbish technique though !!
> 
> I was using the smaller 125mm backing plate, there does appear to be quite a bit of grease around the base that is visible under the base plate, not sure if that's significant to what your implying Viper.
> 
> Are the dedicated units i.e the das-6 much more torquey than the cheaper ones, if I have no joy with it I can see me taking it back for a refund and splashing out the extra cash for a pucker tool.
> 
> Has anyone else using a mac experienced any smoking from it ?


I'm using the MAC and it's not too heavy and no, it doesnt smoke. You can apply a fair bit of pressure to it and it still keeps the pad turning at 1-2 rps if you're on a flat bit of the panel. If anything, this means you can wear the pads (menzerna) quicker than I expected.

Sounds like you have a duff machine mate. I've given the MAC a four hour workout and it hasnt even got warm..


----------



## Katana

I'm going to be polishing my car with the blue silverline in the next couple of weeks using menz orange/yellow pads and Megs #80 followed by Megs #7 since it's single stage red paint. I'll try and take as many pics as i can of the process if i can keep my camera batteries charged for more than 20 shots at a time, and do a showroom thread.

Looking at Dave KG's DA guide and your advice PV, i think i'll spread the polish on speed 1, work it for 3-4 passes at speed 2 and work till clear at speed 3 maybe 4.


----------



## rockhopper

tonyrob said:


> I'm using the MAC and it's not too heavy and no, it doesnt smoke. You can apply a fair bit of pressure to it and it still keeps the pad turning at 1-2 rps if you're on a flat bit of the panel. If anything, this means you can wear the pads (menzerna) quicker than I expected.
> 
> Sounds like you have a duff machine mate. I've given the MAC a four hour workout and it hasnt even got warm..


Thanks for the info Tony, I've bitten the bullet and took it back for a refund now and ordered a Rotary, hope I don't live to regret it.


----------



## Doobrey

Where can I buy the Orange Silverline from!??!

Tried toolsworks... said they had stock, then magically they couldn't deliver till next week, even though I ordered last week...

HELP!


----------



## baptistsan

Mine came from toolbox.co.uk.

I know bargain tools had one left, ask for Joseph.


----------



## VIPER

Katana said:


> I'm going to be polishing my car with the *blue silverline* in the next couple of weeks using menz orange/yellow pads and Megs #80 followed by Megs #7 since it's single stage red paint. I'll try and take as many pics as i can of the process if i can keep my camera batteries charged for more than 20 shots at a time, and do a showroom thread.
> 
> Looking at Dave KG's DA guide and your advice PV, i think i'll spread the polish on speed 1, work it for 3-4 passes at speed 2 and work till clear at speed 3 maybe 4.


*'Blue'* Silverline?


----------



## Doobrey

Ive placed my order with Bargin Tools

Now hoping it gets posted tomorrow ready for the weekend...hint hint Joseph!!!


----------



## Doobrey

Joseph just rang me!

He has one and is sending it out today!

Whooppie


----------



## MadOnVaux!

Pit Viper said:


> *'Blue'* Silverline?


One of these...

http://www.silverlinetools.com/messages.html?closeUp=125563

Silverline Silverstorm 430SW R.O. Sander

Possibly?


----------



## Katana

Yeah, that one ^^
I've taken the black guard on the bottom off mine.
Just waiting for the weather to pick up so i can go out and use it.


----------



## Rodders28

Hi all,

I have one of these and wondered if its worth buying some pads and trying it out. I can put a circular pad on and its rotates etc...

Its only 200W so not powerful, but im only looking to polish and get shiney, no scratch removals, maybe just minor swirls.

Do pads come with velcro backs as thats all I can stick onto it?


----------



## VIPER

Rodders28 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have one of these and wondered if its worth buying some pads and trying it out. I can put a circular pad on and its rotates etc...
> 
> Its only 200W so not powerful, but im only looking to polish and get shiney, no scratch removals, maybe just minor swirls.
> 
> Do pads come with velcro backs as thats all I can stick onto it?


Can you expand a little on the exact specs of it at all? As it looks to me more of a palm sander which normally have a much too high speed, no variable adjustment for that speed, and really small offsets which would really struggle with breaking down polishes (I know that it's not what you'll be specifically using it for, but in the interests of advising other people who might be considering something similar, I need to know so can advise of its suitability accordingly :thumb.


----------



## Rodders28

Struggling to find info, not much in the manual.

Single speed, 10,000rpm, random orbital sanding. It dosent spin up too fast. 125mm diamter pad. weighs 2.0kg. 3m cord. Typical weighted vibration - 3.2m/s2

Sorry, thats all I can find.


----------



## VIPER

As I thought then - single fixed speed and 10,000 OPM is too high I'm afraid. Most of these machines have a starting speed of around 4/5,000 OPM which is what you shoud be looking at really :thumb:


----------



## Rodders28

Cheers Pit, shame as I bought it for one DIY job and never used it since!


----------



## Shiny_Shiny

Just bought one of these  got performance pads for it.


----------



## sanchez89

iv just used my performance power polisher, with menz orange and yellow pads and menz 203s. and i must say its done a pretty ok job. its removed most of the swirls and some of the lighter scratches (on a black saxo bonnet).

however im sure better results can be achieved, while i was polishing i was thinking of the 1-2 oscillations per second (if thats correct?) but all i could see was a blur, i couldnt tell if the pad was spinning or just vibrating?

i wasnt really applying that much pressure, mainly the machines own weight and half again. has anyone else has this experience?

cheers


----------



## Doobrey

Just had a play with my new silverline...

Couple of points, the pad doesnt really spin?!? or it does but really slowly...am I missing something? It kinda vibrates?

Any suggestions/help?

Doobs


----------



## jenks

sanchez89 said:


> .
> 
> however im sure better results can be achieved, while i was polishing i was thinking of the 1-2 oscillations per second (if thats correct?) but all i could see was a blur, i couldnt tell if the pad was spinning or just vibrating?
> 
> cheers


Put a black permanent marker line down the side of the pads then you can tell how quick they are spinning:thumb:


----------



## sanchez89

thanks matey il give that a try. am i right with the 1-2 times per second?


----------



## Doobrey

OK - more update on the Silverline...

I have remove the rubber seal around the top and can now get it spinning freely without any pads. When I add the Sonus pads, with Poorboys 2.5 (I have bad swirls)... the pad virtually stops. I have tried adding more pressure but that doesn't seem to work, tried using the machines own weight and seems too heavy...

I have taken the bearing out, checked them and couldn't even find any grease!!

I have been over the boot twice with 2.5 and I have about 60% correction...so some questions...When I lift the polisher and in essence take the weight it seems to rotate at either 1 or 2 revs per second or a million! 

What am I doing wrong?

Also, when I get it right, how long should I spend on each 2' panel?

Doobs!


----------



## tonyrob

what car are you working on?

and its a 12x12 panel you should be working, 15x15 max.


----------



## VIPER

Doobrey said:


> OK - more update on the Silverline...
> 
> I have remove the rubber seal around the top and can now get it spinning freely without any pads. When I add the Sonus pads, with Poorboys 2.5 (I have bad swirls)... the pad virtually stops. I have tried adding more pressure but that doesn't seem to work, tried using the machines own weight and seems too heavy...
> 
> I have taken the bearing out, checked them and couldn't even find any grease!!
> 
> I have been over the boot twice with 2.5 and I have about 60% correction...so some questions...When I lift the polisher and in essence take the weight it seems to rotate at either 1 or 2 revs per second or a million!
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> Also, when I get it right, how long should I spend on each 2' panel?
> 
> Doobs!


Are the Sonus pads still at their original size of about 150/160mm? (can't recall off the top of my head what size those ones are)

If so, then yes you will struggle to get them to spin under the correct pressure for polishing and you need to carefully trim them down to about the same size as the Menzerna pads i.e about 135mm (or just overlapping the backing plate in other words). I think you'll see a huge improvement in the performance then :thumb:

Also, make sure you're not loading the pad up with too much polish as this can also contribute to it bogging down. A thin line across the pad for the initial priming is all that you need, then a just a couple of pea sized blobs for each subsequent section is plenty.

As for time, just keep a visual check on the polish residue and when it starts to look clear and oily then it's an indication than the abrasives have been sucessfully broken down and you can wipe this away ans check the result. Can't really give a fixed time as different cars and products will affect it, but when I used to use SSR2 on the Silverline (before I move onto to Clarke and Menzerna) it would be about 7 minutes per section. G220s and the like will normally do the same sized section in about 2/3rds the time, but these machines with their smaller offset generally take a bit longer.


----------



## Doobrey

Thanks Viper!

I'll give the "cutting the pads" down suggestion a real bash and let you know. Hard work this polishing business, but great fun!


----------



## trv8

Got me the Clarke CROS2 today from Machine Marts VAT free day.
Any thoughts on which pads and polish I should use. Is there a one stop polish I can use with different types of pads, or should I buy different grades of polish aswell as pads. 
Just getting a little confused with all the choices available.


----------



## uk_

the menz pads are 5" so should be ideal if u dont want to trim sonus pads down ,


----------



## VIPER

Doobrey said:


> Thanks Viper!
> 
> I'll give the "cutting the pads" down suggestion a real bash and let you know. Hard work this polishing business, but great fun!


You'll see a huge improvement then if you've been using them at their normal size, as these machines just can't cope with larger pads. Best thing for cutting them down are those craft knifes with the extendable blades with the 'snap off' sections. Extend to the full length to give the longest cutting edge and carefully 'saw' through the foam (after marking the 135mm circle with a marker, of course).



trv8 said:


> Got me the Clarke CROS2 today from Machine Marts VAT free day.
> Any thoughts on which pads and polish I should use. Is there a one stop polish I can use with different types of pads, or should I buy different grades of polish aswell as pads.
> Just getting a little confused with all the choices available.


I trimmed down my backing plate on my CROS-2 so that it was the same size as the plastic top side without the 'angled' bit around the edge. Reason being I wanted to use the Menzerna 135mm pads with it as I like these and with the backing plate at the normal size of 150mm, would have meant the pads were smaller than the backing plate which is a no-no. You, however, might not want to do this with yours and keep it at 150mm, so pad choices are wider. If you do then I'd recommend the Meguiar's soft buff range or the Lake Country CCS pads.

As for polishes, hard to say, as I don't know what cars or level or correction you're aiming at, so although the Menzerna 203S covers a wide scope of jobs, you're probably best off going for the Menzerna 250ml sample set that a few of our traders sell.



uk_ said:


> the menz pads are 5" so should be ideal if u dont want to trim sonus pads down ,


Agreed! Basically, you always need the pad to overlap the backing plate so if you have a 125mm backing plate machine, the Menz 135mm pads are ideal. Any other brand needs to be trimmed down to this size to avoid any bogging down and reluctance to maintain spinning issues. If you have a 150mm backing plate machine then the larger pads can be left at their original size. If you want to stick with the Menzerna 135mm pads on these, then you have to do what I've done and cut down your backing plate so that it's able to accept the 135mm pads without being larger than them.

This is my Clarke's 150mm backing plate at it's original 150mm diameter, and I've since trimmed away the black part from around the edge to make it the same size as the plastic plate. It is now able to accept the 135mm Menz pads without being larger than them


----------



## trv8

Not having used any type of machine before, do you get a better finish or, is it easier to use with the smaller pads on the Clarke CROS-2. Will be using this on a red TR8 and silver Mazda with light swirling. Are the Menzera orange a nd yellow pads the ones to get with Menzerna 203S or, use the Menzerna Intensive Polish followed by Menzerna Final Finish?
Is Menzerna 203S the same or similar to Auto Glym SRP?
Sorry for the numpty questions.


----------



## VIPER

trv8 said:


> Not having used any type of machine before, do you get a better finish or, is it easier to use with the smaller pads on the Clarke CROS-2. Will be using this on a red TR8 and silver Mazda with light swirling. Are the Menzera orange a nd yellow pads the ones to get with Menzerna 203S or, use the Menzerna Intensive Polish followed by Menzerna Final Finish?
> Is Menzerna 203S the same or similar to Auto Glym SRP?
> Sorry for the numpty questions.


No reason for me other than preferring the slightly smaller pads and the Menz ones in particular really. There's no performance or finish advantage, it's just what you get used to I suppose.

I'd probably try the polishes and pads something like this:-

Final Finish on yellow. Not enough?
Final Finish on orange. Not enough?
203S on yellow. Not enough?
203S on orange. Not enough?
IP on orange followed by Final finish on yellow.

But, having said that ^^ if I could see a pic of the swirls, it would probably be possible to jump straight in with a more accurate combo to use. i.e I could look and say, the first 2 options above aren't going to be enough and you'll be wasting time and pads trying them, go straight for 203S on the yellow (for example).

203S isn't like SRP at all really as it's a pure diminishing abrasive polish primarily for machine use, whereas SRP is a hand applied All In One polish, glaze and sealant with some very light abrasive content (that can also be used by machine though). SRP will also fill and mask swirls more than it removes them (although it will remove some by hand and even more by machine). 203S will only remove, so the correction you acheive will be what you've actually got, not 'enhanced' by fillers.


----------



## trv8

One more question if I may, After using the Menz polishes what sealant or wax would you recomend for a nice deep shine.
Pit Viper ,Thanks for all your advice so far, been a great help, cheers.


----------



## VIPER

Over the last year or so I've been using a lot of Poorboys products. Primarily Natty's 'Red' wax, which is quite an underrated wax imho (the white and blue versions are great as well). The only slight downside is that the durability, whilst not 'poor' as such, is somewhat lacking compared with things like the Collinite and Finish Kare 1000p that have raised the bar somewhat. You need to get at least 2 layers on and then it's reasonably durable - not such a chore as it's a doddle to apply and remove.

For pure looks and a really deep, wet look, if you put a coat of either Poorboys 'White Diamond' or 'Black Hole' glaze (depending on the colour of your car), followed by a couple of layers of any of the Natty's waxes I mentioned, I think you'll struggle to match that for the money imho.


----------



## Shiny_Shiny

Iv'e just bought myself a performance blue pad some swirlx and ultimate compound. Can ultimate compound be used with the blue pads?
Thanks
Ollie


----------



## Shiny_Shiny

Just thought i would post up some pictures of my slightly modified V2 silverline. Seems to work well, have tried it with swirlX and the performance blue pads on ma small section of my car. will post up some better pictures of the paint next week when i get my new car.
the bottom hard plastic section has been removed. i have left the pad150mm due to slightly higher power than the orange. Also thinking of removing the heavy backing plate spacer.
Thanks
Ollie


----------



## markbigears

Just received my orange silverline, just been out for a quick test on the TVR using menz pads and ZAIO. Behaved exactly as pit vipers straight out of the box. Very happy and a big thanks to all those who contributed and to the original posters for bringing this to our attention.:thumb:


----------



## VIPER

markbigears said:


> Just received my orange silverline, just been out for a quick test on the TVR using menz pads and ZAIO. Behaved exactly as pit vipers straight out of the box. Very happy and a big thanks to all those who contributed and to the original posters for bringing this to our attention.:thumb:


Good to hear :thumb: Funny how some, like mine and yours (and others) seem to work great straight away with no modifications or messing about, and others can't even get theirs to spin even in 'mid air' so to speak with no pad and no pressure against the car...odd??

Shiny_Shiny - the old orange one was slightly more powerful than the revised one wasn't it? 450w vs 430w?


----------



## mattjones

Message For Pit Viper:
Please could you pm me your shortened summary of this thread, I am currently in Iraq with very poor internet access and would like to get all the gear i need as a beginner to have a go at paint correction ready for when i return.
I have less than 10 posts and therefore cannot pm you.

Many thanks.


----------



## baptistsan

Mmmmmm. The Viper is offline. Not sure if I'll get this right or not, but happy to try.

1xDA Sander. I managed to get one of the few remaining orange machines. There is now a blue version and some have had good results with a machine from B and Q.

Menzerna pads. I went for orange and yellow from Polished Bliss (cheapest place I could find them).

I am waiting for the Menzerna sample kit to come back in stock. This is to remove any swirls and light scratches.

Then choose a wax or sealant product. Am contemplating either Natty's or R222.

This should let you have some fun on your return. Am sure some more informed people will be along shortly to correct anything I may have wrong.

HTH.


----------



## VIPER

mattjones said:


> Message For Pit Viper:
> Please could you pm me your shortened summary of this thread, I am currently in Iraq with very poor internet access and would like to get all the gear i need as a beginner to have a go at paint correction ready for when i return.
> I have less than 10 posts and therefore cannot pm you.
> 
> Many thanks.


Now sent :thumb: Sorry for the delay, mate


----------



## r1cho

*Log in*

any chance you can send me the short version too please? Many thanks, rich.


----------



## d4mo

Ive been looking at buying a polisher for ages to try and do some sort of correction on the badly swirled paintwork on my 10 year old Audi A4. The only thing that put me off was the cost as I will probably only use it a couple of times (and maybe end up doing the odd friends car if im actually any good at it :thumb: )

So with the nice weekend weather coming and after trying to read through this thread I got the general idea of which polishers were being recommended and also had a look at the polishes recommended by some of the suppliers and have gone with the following choice:

MAC Random Orbital from B&Q (Paid £19.98 today for it)
Menzerna Light cut and Polish pads
Menzerna RD3.02
Menzerna 85RE

I will be using some FK1000P to finish off as I already have this in my box of cleaning stuff. I already have blue masking tape, claybar and cleaning products which I will be using to start with.

Does this all sound like a reasonable choice or have i wasted my money?


----------



## robbie_d

d4mo said:


> Ive been looking at buying a polisher for ages to try and do some sort of correction on the badly swirled paintwork on my 10 year old Audi A4. The only thing that put me off was the cost as I will probably only use it a couple of times (and maybe end up doing the odd friends car if im actually any good at it :thumb: )
> 
> So with the nice weekend weather coming and after trying to read through this thread I got the general idea of which polishers were being recommended and also had a look at the polishes recommended by some of the suppliers and have gone with the following choice:
> 
> MAC Random Orbital from B&Q (Paid £19.98 today for it)
> Menzerna Light cut and Polish pads
> Menzerna RD3.02
> Menzerna 85RE
> 
> I will be using some FK1000P to finish off as I already have this in my box of cleaning stuff. I already have blue masking tape, claybar and cleaning products which I will be using to start with.
> 
> Does this all sound like a reasonable choice or have i wasted my money?


I got the MAC too and I've loved it so far. Also got the Menz polishes and pads which are good (although I'm onto Autoglym pads now which I actually prefer).

I think you've made a good choice (and got your MAC £6 cheaper than I got mine!)


----------



## VIPER

d4mo said:


> Ive been looking at buying a polisher for ages to try and do some sort of correction on the badly swirled paintwork on my 10 year old Audi A4. The only thing that put me off was the cost as I will probably only use it a couple of times (and maybe end up doing the odd friends car if im actually any good at it :thumb: )
> 
> So with the nice weekend weather coming and after trying to read through this thread I got the general idea of which polishers were being recommended and also had a look at the polishes recommended by some of the suppliers and have gone with the following choice:
> 
> MAC Random Orbital from B&Q (Paid £19.98 today for it)
> Menzerna Light cut and Polish pads
> Menzerna RD3.02
> Menzerna 85RE
> 
> I will be using some FK1000P to finish off as I already have this in my box of cleaning stuff. I already have blue masking tape, claybar and cleaning products which I will be using to start with.
> 
> Does this all sound like a reasonable choice or have i wasted my money?


All looks fine to me, mate :thumb: The only thing I would say is that you don't seem to have a finishing pad there, so whilst the 3.02 on the orange can finish down to LSP ready level on some cars with harder paints, softer more easily marred paint types can show a little hazing after the 3.02 and really need a follow up with a finishing polish. Now you have this in the 85RE, but I'm not sure what pad you're going to use it on?


----------



## d4mo

PV > The plan was to use the Menzerna Orange pad with the 3.02, followed by a Menzerna white pad with the 85RE and finished off with the FK1000P applied by hand using a megs applicator (or i will wash the Menzerna white pad out if i cant handle doing the car by hand).

Is this a suitable combination?


Robbie D > On the shelf it was £26 but when I got to the till it was scanned through at £19.98, the till woman queried it, I had to wait 5 mins befre they decided to let me have it at that price.


----------



## VIPER

d4mo said:


> PV > The plan was to use the Menzerna Orange pad with the 3.02, followed by a Menzerna white pad with the 85RE and finished off with the FK1000P applied by hand using a megs applicator (or i will wash the Menzerna white pad out if i cant handle doing the car by hand).
> 
> Is this a suitable combination?


Er, not really, no. The menz pads are:-

White - cutting
Orange - polishing
Yellow - Finishing

So you definitely don't want to be using a finishing polish on a cutting pad, and certainly not be using the white after the orange.

I'd start off with the 85RE on the orange to test first and if that's not enough then step up to the 3.02 on the orange if required. If that's still not doing anything then try the 3.02 on the white, but proceed with caution here as the white pad's very firm.

You sure you haven't got the yellow one?

I'd apply the FK1000 by hand myself as well.


----------



## d4mo

Doh, yes i meant the yellow one was looking at the wrong shopping list


----------



## VIPER

d4mo said:


> Doh, yes i meant the yellow one was looking at the wrong shopping list


:lol: Thought it was odd!

Makes total sense now :thumb:

I'd still apply the FK1000 by hand though.


----------



## Phill_S

I've just bought a Silverline Hi-Spec 289446 125 mm Random Orbit Sander from here - https://www.toolshopdirect.co.uk/item.php/store/3/c1/12/c2/72/sn/289446

maybe not as cheap as some were getting it, but still hardly expensive...

now my Q - do I need to get a backing plate for the pads I have also just ordered to be attached to? or will they just attach as the machine comes.

the pads I have just bought are the Menz 80mm finishing and polishing pads.


----------



## markbigears

Hi Phil, no, you don't need a backing plate, machine has one that the pads stick too. You need bigger pads though, 135mm as those spot pads are too small.


----------



## Phill_S

D'oh! I thought them pads were cheap....I totally didn't think why - now I know it's because they are the little pads - oh well they'll come in handy I guess sometime!

Thanks for that Mark.


----------



## mark_mcd

Hey just a small 'bump' to say that I just got the B&Q MACAllister model for £19.99 as they appear to have reduced them  It was either that or the cheaper Performance Tools one but still went for the MAC as you get a case, 3 year warrenty and it just looked and felt a touch better. Saying that the Performance Tools one also looked worth a punt if you find the MAC is sold out.


----------



## markbigears

Phil, these are the cheapest and delivery was only 2 days. Highly recommend them.
http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/menzerna-135-mm-pads-polish.html


----------



## 116ies

I see the silverlines start at 4000rpm, isn't this a little high? what speed would i need to spread the polish at? 

Thanks )


----------



## Katana

It's not 4000 RPM it's 4000 OPM (orbits per minute).








The DA orbits around the center, the speed settings on the machine change the OPM not RPM, the RPM of the DA depends on how much pressure you apply when using it.
When using it you aim for around 1-2 revolutions a second (or 60-120rpm if you like) regardless of orbit speed. To judge this i put a thick black line on my pad so the revolutions were obvious.

As for speeds, i think PV has stated before for the orange silverline, spread at speed 1, work for 3-4 passes at speed 2-3 then work till clear at speed 4-5.


----------



## 116ies

Great thanks!

That's made up my mind, although are these really an alternative to the likes of the g220? Can the same finish be obtained?


----------



## willhouston

just want to say a big thanks to everyone who's contributed to this thread. It's given me the confidence to polish my paintwork, which is in really bad condition... I know the thread has revolved around the cheaper DA, so after reading alot of the reviews, I ordered the silverline from kingdom tools...but they phoned me the next day to say it had been discontinued  so instead i bought the Kestrel DAS-6, can't wait to see how it performs on the TT  This detailing business is gonna leave me completely skint haha


----------



## Phill_S

markbigears said:


> Phil, these are the cheapest and delivery was only 2 days. Highly recommend them.
> http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/menzerna-135-mm-pads-polish.html


That's what I bought from them, after accidently ordering the spot pads!

Thanks - nice to know they are a decent product.


----------



## sanchez89

just a quick question here:
can these polishers be used to correct wet sanding marks? say from 3000 grit paper?

iv got a couple of scratches that i want to touch up and wet sand but i want to be able to make it look good after.


----------



## willhouston

After reading most of this thread sanchez, these polishers will definitely be able to correct 3000 grit wet sanding marks, obviously with the proper pad/polish combination. I'm a newbie but this thread's gave me a lot of confidence in correcting my paintwork!  i'll be doing the exact same with the TT, got a good few stone chips spread over the front end, and pretty bad swirls all over.


----------



## kentar0

Ive just got the mac allister orbital sander..

very good build quality and feels very sturdy

quick question....

What pads and polish should i use on my hunda civic 1996. (dark purple - Dark Blue colour) 

orbital can take 125mm and 150mm btw


----------



## Littlebubb

Oh no, I searched, I found, I joined as I wanted the "detailed summary of which orbital sander/polisher" but I cannot PM as I have not made 10 posts. So count this as No1, and if anyone takes pity and can send me what I need let me know please!


----------



## Oliscrim

I have one version of it that pit viper sent me....a few weeks ago, i really need to scrounge some money together to get a silverline or mac.


----------



## graeme

After getting some great advice from mark (pit viper) in october about a silverline i got very sidetracked with other things and never got round to getting one, i was in B+Q today and saw a bargain. 

Got the Mac Allister dual random orbital sander reduced to clear from £26.99 to £19.99 so thought i'd get one. When i went through the till it had a further 10% off so ended up getting it for £18:thumb:

Just need to get some pads and find the time then i am going to try and get all the swirls and scratches out of the car. Wee bit worried as i dont have a ptg but its never been machine polished before so should be fine.


----------



## VIPER

Littlebubb said:


> Oh no, I searched, I found, I joined as I wanted the "detailed summary of which orbital sander/polisher" but I cannot PM as I have not made 10 posts. So count this as No1, and if anyone takes pity and can send me what I need let me know please!


You won't be able to read PMs either until you've got to 10 posts so there's no point in me sending it you yet. I'm sure you can find something to make 9 comments on in the site somewhere


----------



## Littlebubb

Pit Viper said:


> You won't be able to read PMs either until you've got to 10 posts so there's no point in me sending it you yet. I'm sure you can find something to make 9 comments on in the site somewhere


Grrrr I was all excited at actually finding some proper help!

silly rule (Number 2 post).
:wall:


----------



## maxp

Phill_S said:


> I've just bought a Silverline Hi-Spec 289446 125 mm Random Orbit Sander from here - https://www.toolshopdirect.co.uk/item.php/store/3/c1/12/c2/72/sn/289446
> 
> maybe not as cheap as some were getting it, but still hardly expensive...
> 
> now my Q - do I need to get a backing plate for the pads I have also just ordered to be attached to? or will they just attach as the machine comes.
> 
> the pads I have just bought are the Menz 80mm finishing and polishing pads.


Sorry to be blunt here but is that silverline better than the mac b+q £20 orbital jobbie?


----------



## VIPER

maxp said:


> Sorry to be blunt here but is that silverline better than the mac b+q £20 orbital jobbie?


Probably very little between them really tbh. but as nobody's got both as far as I'm aware, no direct back to back comparision has been made.

Really, all the ones at around £20-30 have pretty much the same spec - motor power, offset dimension etc. It's only when you step up to the Clarke CROS-2 with its more powerful motor and larger offset could you say it was 'better' really, but then it's twice the price.


----------



## MadOnVaux!

On the strength of this thread, Ive ordered the Silverline too (Bought for me as a Birthday prezzie).....now to get some pads sorted


----------



## VIPER

MadOnVaux! said:


> On the strength of this thread, Ive ordered the Silverline too (Bought for me as a Birthday prezzie).....*now to get some pads sorted*


http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/menzerna-135-mm-pads-polish.html

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/polishing/menzerna-polishing-pads/cat_24.html

http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/menzerna-135mm-polishing-pad.php?cPath=69
http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=69&products_id=568

:thumb:


----------



## Sharpy

What would you say is better for lime prime polishing or finishing pad?

I got some ssr 2.5 and 1 also would you use the white compounding for the 2.5 and the orange polishing for the 1?


----------



## MadOnVaux!

Pit Viper said:


> http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/menzerna-135-mm-pads-polish.html
> 
> http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/polishing/menzerna-polishing-pads/cat_24.html
> 
> http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/menzerna-135mm-polishing-pad.php?cPath=69
> http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=69&products_id=568
> 
> :thumb:


Cheers Mr Viper:thumb:


----------



## VIPER

sharpy24 said:


> What would you say is better for lime prime polishing or finishing pad?
> 
> I got some ssr 2.5 and 1 also would you use the white compounding for the 2.5 and the orange polishing for the 1?


With Menz pads then I'd go with the yellow finishing for LP personally, but it does depend to a degree on the car's paint hardness, but as Menz pads are generally a litte firmer than other brands, I think the yellow would suffice for most cars with Lime Prime. For other brands of pad then you'll probably need their polishing pads.

As for the second question, I'd leave the white one alone altogether tbh and use the orange for the SSR2.5 and the yellow for the SSR1.


----------



## Phill_S

Pit Viper said:


> http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/menzerna-135-mm-pads-polish.html
> 
> http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/polishing/menzerna-polishing-pads/cat_24.html
> 
> http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/menzerna-135mm-polishing-pad.php?cPath=69
> http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=69&products_id=568
> 
> :thumb:


Nice diplomatic non biased reply there PV!

I got mine today from Polished Bliss, order was put through monday.....pads and Menz sample kit:buffer: came today - you can't get much better than that!:thumb:


----------



## 116ies

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...ils?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1243967868&sr=8-1&seller=

Is this any good?


----------



## anewman

116ies said:


> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...ils?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1243967868&sr=8-1&seller=
> 
> Is this any good?


No - only 180w motor rules it out from previous details I have read given in this thread


----------



## maxp

anewman said:


> No - only 180w motor rules it out from previous details I have read given in this thread


Managed to get the 450w silverline for £16 (+6.99 postage) from the 'bay brand new. Pretty pleased with that!


----------



## VIPER

anewman said:


> No - only *180w motor rules it out *from previous details I have read given in this thread


As does the lack of a variable speed control so it's either nothing or full speed which is no good at all, I'm afraid.


----------



## MadOnVaux!

I got my Silverline yesterday...was the Orange one i ordered, but that was out of stock, so i got a free upgrade to the Blue Silverline 'Silverstorm'


----------



## Phill_S

^^^ mine also came yesterday and with a similar situation like yours - the blue one arrived, instead of the orange.

had a bit of a play yesterday on the bonnet of the car - along with some menz polishing/finishing pads and menz polishes and i will admit to never using a machine to polish prior yesterday and being a total noob i am quite pleased at the results - not 100% happy, but a bit more practise and i'll get there i think:thumb:

cheers DW and PV for this thread, which ultimately persuaded me to see the light with machine polishing.


----------



## Yoghurtman

Thanks for the PM Pit Viper, with the abridged version of everything. (see 1st posting for info). I've saved it in a word document for future ref. The video helped a lot to understand the pad speed.

Got the B&Q Mac today and have Menz pads and polishes on order, cant wait to get started

:thumb:to Pit Viper for all the info on this thread....


----------



## Ken555

Littlebubb said:


> Oh no, I searched, I found, I joined as I wanted the "detailed summary of which orbital sander/polisher" but I cannot PM as I have not made 10 posts. So count this as No1, and if anyone takes pity and can send me what I need let me know please!


Here also.


----------



## 116ies

Hey folks, sorry if this was answered before but is the Mac Allister 450w 150/125mm Dual RA sander any good for this?
variable speep 4000-15000
450W motor?

bought it there in B&Q, £20 down from £40

http://www.bizrate.co.uk/powertools/oid925458385.html

This one


----------



## Darren

116ies said:


> Hey folks, sorry if this was answered before but is the Mac Allister 450w 150/125mm Dual RA sander any good for this?
> variable speep 4000-15000
> 450W motor?
> 
> bought it there in B&Q, £20 down from £40
> 
> http://www.bizrate.co.uk/powertools/oid925458385.html
> 
> This one


yeah, a few people on here use that one


----------



## 116ies

Super just what i wanted to hear, are there any actual correctional abilities with these?


----------



## Darren

116ies said:


> Super just what i wanted to hear, are there any actual correctional abilities with these?


you can correct minor swirls, but i dont think it can correct more deeper marks


----------



## 116ies

Good that's all i need it for


----------



## Shiny_Shiny

awaiting delivery for my Menz pads and polish's then i'll whack some before and afters up for people to see.
Ollie


----------



## nat1979

Darren said:


> you can correct minor swirls, but i dont think it can correct more deeper marks


why wouldn't it remove the deeper marks?

surely if it's dual action and has the same speed range as the more expensive polishers, is it not all to do with the pads and cutting agents you use to how well it will correct paintwork?


----------



## Darren

nat1979 said:


> why wouldn't it remove the deeper marks?
> 
> surely if it's dual action and has the same speed range as the more expensive polishers, is it not all to do with the pads and cutting agents you use to how well it will correct paintwork?


i'm sure i have read in this thread that is not powerful enough, although i dont have one myself i'm only going by what other people have said


----------



## MadOnVaux!

(*Sorry if this has been asked previously in this thread)


Without sounding a cheapskate, will I be OK using AG SRP and AG UDS with the Menzerna pads?

Just that i have almost 2 litres of UDS and should be getting 3 litres of SRP (on Special Offer) on Tuesday, and will use these if they will do the job, rather than having to shell out for extra gear like Menzerna polish and '3M' stuff etc?

Also, how many pads do people recommend i buy as a beginner?, deff' getting the Menz Polishing and Finishing pads as recommended, but would it be worth buying 2 of each?...and how do you clean them?

Thanks


----------



## VIPER

MadOnVaux! said:


> (*Sorry if this has been asked previously in this thread)
> 
> Without sounding a cheapskate, will I be OK using AG SRP and AG UDS with the Menzerna pads?
> 
> Just that i have almost 2 litres of UDS and should be getting 3 litres of SRP (on Special Offer) on Tuesday, and will use these if they will do the job, rather than having to shell out for extra gear like Menzerna polish and '3M' stuff etc?
> 
> Also, how many pads do people recommend i buy as a beginner?, deff' getting the Menz Polishing and Finishing pads as recommended, but would it be worth buying 2 of each?...and how do you clean them?
> 
> Thanks


Not 100% sure about UDS as I've never used it, but SRP will work great although you're only getting partial correction as a good proportion of the 'correction ' you see will be down to the fillers. On the orange pad though you should get decent results (or if your paint's only got very light swirling then you might only need to use the yellow one).

If you've only got your own car to do then one of each will suffice, but tbh. for the price of them, and if you're likely to be doing a few cars in the near future then yes 2 of each would be a good move. Having 2 sets means you can always have a fresh pair when one set's being washed.

Speaking of which, just wash them with regular Fairy washing up liquid by hand in the sink. Put a decent amount on a wet pad and massage in to get a good soapy lather which will break down the polish residue. After a couple of minutes rinse out very thoroughly under the tap until all the soap has gone and the wash runs clean from the pad. Allow to air dry naturally overnight.


----------



## NeilG40

I've not used my megs pads yet but when I'm cleaning hand applicator pads I find the best way to rinse soap out of them is to squeeze them submerse then in clean water then release them (this will draw the clean water in), then squeeze them out but not into the clean water. Doing this two or three times gets rid of all the soap which just rinsing them under the tap doesn't seem to do.


----------



## MadOnVaux!

Pit Viper said:


> Not 100% sure about UDS as I've never used it, but SRP will work great although you're only getting partial correction as a good proportion of the 'correction ' you see will be down to the fillers. On the orange pad though you should get decent results (or if your paint's only got very light swirling then you might only need to use the yellow one).
> 
> If you've only got your own car to do then one of each will suffice, but tbh. for the price of them, and if you're likely to be doing a few cars in the near future then yes 2 of each would be a good move. Having 2 sets means you can always have a fresh pair when one set's being washed.
> 
> Speaking of which, just wash them with regular Fairy washing up liquid by hand in the sink. Put a decent amount on a wet pad and massage in to get a good soapy lather which will break down the polish residue. After a couple of minutes rinse out very thoroughly under the tap until all the soap has gone and the wash runs clean from the pad. Allow to air dry naturally overnight.


Thanks again Viper, much clearer now, i'll get some ordered 

I'll get two of each as i may have another car to do every so often  (Plus they are being bought for me :thumb


----------



## slickoneuk

Jus a quickie, screwfix have a special on a TiTan orbital sander for £12.50

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/19999/Power-Tools/Sanders/Titan-SF430B-430W-Random-Orbit-Sander


----------



## VIPER

slickoneuk said:


> Jus a quickie, screwfix have a special on a TiTan orbital sander for £12.50
> 
> http://www.screwfix.com/prods/19999/Power-Tools/Sanders/Titan-SF430B-430W-Random-Orbit-Sander


Very small orbit at only 2.5mm though so might struggle to break down polishes. For comparison the Clarke CROS-2 has an orbit of about 7mm.


----------



## Grim Reaper

Where do you get pads for these orbital polishers??


----------



## Shiny_Shiny

Cleanyourcar.co.uk seriousperformance.co.uk lots of places, ebay too!


----------



## VIPER

Grim Reaper said:


> Where do you get pads for these orbital polishers??


Anywhere that sells the 135mm Menzerna pads:- Elite, CYC, Polished Bliss to name 3 :thumb:


----------



## MattDuffy88

Hi all, first time poster but been reading for a while 

After a very long read and making many notes later I've ordered 2 of each of the Mezerna Pads and am going to pick up one of the MacAllister Random Orbital Sanders tomorrow and go from there. 
My Grandad has a red Hyundai Matrix (don't laugh) that he wants cleaning and de-swirling (I was very shocked he actually knew what an RDS is and what swirls are!) so that is my 1st mission once the pads arrive and the weather clears up.

Matt.


----------



## VIPER

fiestech said:


> Hi all, first time poster but been reading for a while
> 
> After a very long read and making many notes later I've ordered 2 of each of the Mezerna Pads and am going to pick up one of the MacAllister Random Orbital Sanders tomorrow and go from there.
> My Grandad has a red Hyundai Matrix (don't laugh) that he wants cleaning and de-swirling (I was very shocked he actually knew what an RDS is and what swirls are!) so that is my 1st mission once the pads arrive and the weather clears up.
> 
> Matt.


Welcome, Matt first of all :wave:

Secondly, if you'd got to 10 posts you could have PM'd me for the single page synopsis of this entire thread with all the info in and saved yourself a very long (and very tedious) read.

Thirdly, my Grandad has a Hyundai (a silver Getz) so I won't be laughing at all - nor should anyone really, they make some decent cars these days.

Best of luck with it, mate. If you get stuck give me a PM (although as I said, you need to get to 10 posts to use the private messaging system on here).


----------



## [email protected]

slickoneuk said:


> Jus a quickie, screwfix have a special on a TiTan orbital sander for £12.50
> 
> http://www.screwfix.com/prods/19999/Power-Tools/Sanders/Titan-SF430B-430W-Random-Orbit-Sander


Well spotted 

Pit Viper the specs are:

Sanding surface 125mm. Orbit dia. 2.5mm. Orbit speed 4,000-12,000opm. Weight 2.9kg.

does this pass muster?

EDIT: Sorry you answered on page 146


----------



## MattDuffy88

Thanks Pit Viper, the paint on my Grandads Hyundai is actually better than on my '01 Focus!

I'll get posting too


----------



## Katana

That Titan one looks pretty similar to the silverline silvestorm, and the specs are basically the same, for £12.50 it's worth a go.


----------



## VIPER

Katana said:


> That Titan one looks pretty similar to the silverline silvestorm, and the specs are basically the same, for £12.50 it's worth a go.


It's just the 2.5mm offset that would concern me though. I don't know what the offset of the revised Silverline one is, but the old 'orange' Hi-spec one is about 5mm. 
I think anything smaller than this is really going to take too long to properly work and break down polishes for any kind of correctional use. For just applying finishing polishes, glazes or AIO type products then it might okay as a labour saving tool, but with something like the Menz Intensive Polish/Power finish, Megs #83, SSR2/2.5 and the like I think it would struggle tbh.


----------



## outcastjack

would it be ok with megs scratch x or dodo lime prime?


----------



## VIPER

outcastjack said:


> would it be ok with megs scratch x or dodo lime prime?


Yes, I can't see why not as those 2 are designed with hand application methods. tbh. for a little extra outlay I'd go for something with a larger offset (5mm at least) then you have the scope for acheiving some correction in the future should you wish to do so :thumb:


----------



## HairyG

Katana said:


> That Titan one looks pretty similar to the silverline silvestorm, and the specs are basically the same, for £12.50 it's worth a go.


I've got one and it is OK for applying SRP and does achieve some correction with polishes. I bought it to use as a sander and tried it with some pads to see if it was any good.

For the money it has to be worth it, but if you have ambitions to achieve serious paint correction you probably need something a bit beefier with a bigger offset.


----------



## Sam.

Another first time poster here!
Would it be worth going for the MAC sander to apply and buff off SRP (and possibly Collinite 845/similar)? If so, what pads would I need?

Cheers.


----------



## sanchez89

Sam. said:


> Another first time poster here!
> Would it be worth going for the MAC sander to apply and buff off SRP (and possibly Collinite 845/similar)? If so, what pads would I need?
> 
> Cheers.


i believe if you were just using to apply/buff off a finishing pad is what you want. such as menz yellow 135mm.

others please correct me if i am wrong


----------



## slickoneuk

i have gone for a silverline pro rotary polisher, toolstation number 35104. To hell with the horror stories! Will try it oun on my wifes car first though, hee hee.


----------



## Doc

Well I cracked open the Silverline this weekend (see my other thread).
Not happy TBH, I think I have a dud 
I took the bearing out, cleaned it up and squirted it with WD40, I even cut the rubber guard off to stop any contact slowing the Sander down but to no avail.
If I hold the Silverline up with no pad on it will spin slowly anti clockwise, if I apply moderate pressure it decides to spin the other way slowly, with firm pressure it stops spinning and vibrates only.
Frustrating weekend.
Help!


----------



## [email protected]

I've got Clarke one just deciding on polish(es) to use since I have no idea how hard the Ford paint is.


----------



## DomTom

wow this thread is growing at an alarming rate. its nice to see that you've found the time to make a shortned version of the thread!

last time i was going to get all the kit but after finally deciding what i wanted, half the stuff i did want was out of stock..gr..

edit:
hooray i have 10 posts, please may i have the shortned version by pm?

also, halfords has a 3 for 2 offer going on, i was going to get my megs smooth surface from there and figured i'd the polish and something else from there too to take advantage of the offer, would it be worth getting the polish from halfords seeing as they don't really sell any of the really good ones?


----------



## Spikyhercules

I have one of these sanders but a Power Craft one, It spins at 9000-13000, Is that too fast or will it be OK?
Can you send me the shortned version of this topic Please Pit Viper :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

Spikyhercules said:


> I have one of these sanders but a Power Craft one, It spins at 9000-13000, Is that too fast or will it be OK?
> Can you send me the shortned version of this topic Please Pit Viper :thumb:


I can but you need to make another 9 posts before you can receive and read it :thumb:

Sounds a bit fast really to be perfectly honest. The machines featured in this thread like the Silverlines, the MacAllister, Clarke and a few others all have a lowest speed of about 4,000 OPM. 
For comparison my main machine now, the Clarke CROS-2 has a maximum OPM of 7,000, so to _start_ at 9,000 is too high really, unfortunately.


----------



## Spikyhercules

Ahh thought so, Glad I asked. Thanks for replying ...x2 posts now


----------



## VIPER

I'll send it you now and then it's just waiting until you get to 10 :thumb:


----------



## Sam.

Can I have the short guide too? :thumb: Thanks.


----------



## Spikyhercules

Pit Viper said:


> I'll send it you now and then it's just waiting until you get to 10 :thumb:


Brilliant, I can't read it in my inbox but I it all shows up in the email alert :thumb: Thanks a lot. Loving this forum BTW, Learning a lot.


----------



## VIPER

Sam. said:


> Can I have the short guide too? :thumb: Thanks.


Same situation, I've sent it to you, but you need another 6 posts to read it :thumb:


----------



## troll

Hi guy's,

Wow I have just spent 3 days (lunch hours - well almost), reading this entire thread, and I am still only on page 114 ...

I have a few Q's.

After reading this I went and ordered a silverline, prob was when it arrived it was the new updated version runnung speed is 6000 rpm-12k rpm, so looks like I got to sent it back... So choice is either the mac or the Clarke at the moment.

Anyway, so far I have bought the 3 Mez 135mm pads (yellow/white/ and orange), I also have some PB 2.5, megs clay kit and the megs 1,2,3 laying around.

I need to get a orbital this weekend, as I have just bought a white Ford RS Turbo S2 for the wife which needs a dam good going over, its a tad oxidised, so are the products I got so far any good ? 

Need to get it done in time for a show at Castle Combe next Sat.


Also I have a Performance Blue Mondeo ST220, which I gave the megs 1-2-3 by hand a few weeks ago and does look a lot better, but I will want to do the job properly on it in the future.

In the garage I have a black Escort MK2 RS2000 X-pack, currently under resoration, but means I can practise on the paintwork as its going to be re-sprayed anyway.

Found this forum thru PassionFord, some very useful info here, and it's definately got me into the proper cleaning bug... (as if I didn't have enough things to do 

While I am at it, I deisgn and modify headlights, and sometimes the ones I buy are scratched and stone chipped. I boughts some plastic polish (xerpol or something) which does work, however I am guessing the orbital will work much better?

A big thanks for all the info I have learnt.. so far.

cheeRS,
Mark


----------



## VIPER

Hi Mark :wave: from another Ford mad Mark 

Pity you don't have 10 posts mate as you could have asked for the single page abridged version of this thread with just the key info on :lol:

You needn't have sent the revised silverline back as it's still fine to use - the 6,000 starting point isn't a problem with random orbitals, like too high a speed would be for a rotary for eg. Nevermind, you've done it now.

SSR2.5 would work fine on the S2 and try it on the orange pad though, the white pad is extremely hard and quite agressive as pads go, so probably best leave that one for headlights, which it should perform well on.

Ideally you'd need a less abrasive polish to refine after the SSR2.5 and so from that range then the new revised SSR1 would be good, but better still would be either Menzerna 106FA or PO85RD Final Finshes.

As another alternative to the SSR2.5 you could get a bottle of Menzerna 203S which would probably have enough guts to correct your cars without having to be followed with any refining polish after like the 2.5 would.

Very interested in the X pack RS2000 - you going to have a restoration thread going on here, or is there one on PF?


----------



## troll

Hi PV (Mark),

Thanks for the reply, I haven't returned the silverline yet, so you think it will be ok then ?? It will also double up use on the RS2000 as I am probably taking it back to bare metal (already have underneath).

I will try and get some of either the Menzerna 106FA or PO85RD Final Finshes. as I have read good reviews on it, or possible the new PB1 (look at me with the lingo) lol

Got a complete gallery online for the X-pack resto, its on a few forums already, but here's a direct link www.dorset-rsoc.co.uk/xpack , plenty of pics there.:car:

I see you got a nice XR2i, do you show it ?

<M>


----------



## troll

forgot to say only 1 more post to go... can you PM me the short version, as I still got 50 odd pages to go...


----------



## VIPER

troll said:


> Hi PV (Mark),
> 
> Thanks for the reply, I haven't returned the silverline yet, so you think it will be ok then ?? It will also double up use on the RS2000 as I am probably taking it back to bare metal (already have underneath).
> 
> I will try and get some of either the Menzerna 106FA or PO85RD Final Finshes. as I have read good reviews on it, or possible the new PB1 (look at me with the lingo) lol
> 
> Got a complete gallery online for the X-pack resto, its on a few forums already, but here's a direct link www.dorset-rsoc.co.uk/xpack , plenty of pics there.:car:
> 
> I see you got a nice XR2i, do you show it ?
> 
> <M>


Yes it will be fine. I do most of my work when using the old orange silverline on about speed 3/4 anyway which must equate to about 8,000 OPM, and my Clarke's normally on full speed 'F' when I'm working the polish which is 7,000 OPM. so, on that basis if you keep to the lower speeds you'll be fine. remember this is only Oscillations per minute, the pad will only be rotating on the paintwork at about 1-3 revs per second, and will stop altogether when too much pressure is applied.

I'll have a wander over to that site and have a gander 

I used to show the XR2 quite a bit from the late 90s up until about 2005 and got a 2nd place at Ford Fair 98, two class wins at Ford Fairs 2003 and 2004, class wins at the XR Owners Club National Day concours in those same years, and quite a few 1st places at XROC regional concours. Been retired for a few years from showing but hope to start showing it again next year (not concours again though). Had planned it to be this year, but other stuff's got in the way, you know how it does 



troll said:


> forgot to say only 1 more post to go... can you PM me the short version, as I still got 50 odd pages to go...


I'll send it in a minute, mate :thumb:


----------



## Geetarman

Hi all great thread, just bought a Mac for £19.99 and ordered up some Menz pads (yellow and orange) and a bottle of Menz PO85.

PIt Viper can you drop me the short version of this, haven't been through it all so may have missed some of the important stuff. 

Cheers


----------



## Darranvps

Has anybody tried the machine polisher from Turtle Wax?


----------



## troll

Thanks VP, nice read that.

Do you know rob from Tremona Garage, he got a concours XR2 too ??

Get it to the shows... R u going to Ford Fair in 5 weeks ?

<M>



Pit Viper said:


> Yes it will be fine. I do most of my work when using the old orange silverline on about speed 3/4 anyway which must equate to about 8,000 OPM, and my Clarke's normally on full speed 'F' when I'm working the polish which is 7,000 OPM. so, on that basis if you keep to the lower speeds you'll be fine. remember this is only Oscillations per minute, the pad will only be rotating on the paintwork at about 1-3 revs per second, and will stop altogether when too much pressure is applied.
> 
> I'll have a wander over to that site and have a gander
> 
> I used to show the XR2 quite a bit from the late 90s up until about 2005 and got a 2nd place at Ford Fair 98, two class wins at Ford Fairs 2003 and 2004, class wins at the XR Owners Club National Day concours in those same years, and quite a few 1st places at XROC regional concours. Been retired for a few years from showing but hope to start showing it again next year (not concours again though). Had planned it to be this year, but other stuff's got in the way, you know how it does
> 
> I'll send it in a minute, mate :thumb:


----------



## jo90

Fapping hell, im detailing on a budget so this may just be what i need. the paint isnt in bad condition, but it does need a good polish so this might be the way forward for me.

Ta


----------



## kungfuman

hi, please can you also send me the short version guide. thanks


----------



## VIPER

kungfuman said:


> hi, please can you also send me the short version guide. thanks


I can but you'll not be able to read it until you have at least 10 posts.


----------



## kungfuman

thanks a lot, its in my inbox. I'm working up my post count to read it (hehe hence this post!)


----------



## Shuck

I'd love a copy of the shortened version too please if possible. Always nice to have alternatives.


----------



## pugbug

I am in the same situation, I would like the PM but don't have enough posts yet


----------



## VIPER

Shuck said:


> I'd love a copy of the shortened version too please if possible. Always nice to have alternatives.





pugbug said:


> I am in the same situation, I would like the PM but don't have enough posts yet


You've both got it now :thumb:


----------



## Franco50

Apologies if a previous poster has touched on this point (it is a very big thread after all ) I've tried ordering the orange Silverline from a few online retailers but, despite them still showing it on their websites, they inform me that the item is no longer available. Apparently the replacement machine is the model number 125563. Has anyone tried this device and is it a good alternative to the discontinued machine?

This is the spec:

- 430W Motor
- Hook and Loop Secure Fixing
- Dust Bag
- 125mm Diameter Sanding Pad
- 6000-13000RPM Speed Adjustment

Achieve a swirl-free finish without sanding marks, even when working across the grain, with this well-balanced sander. The variable speed control matches the performance of the motor to the task in hand while the fully adjustable front handle means this tool will always feel comfortable in your hand.


----------



## VIPER

The basics of the machine are the roughly the same as the orange one, the only real difference being the slightly higher starting speed which isn't ideal (the 4,000k was better). Providing you keep the lower speeds (1,2 and 3) then it's still suitable.

Remember these are _oscillating_ speeds not _rotation_ speeds so a few thousand either way, baring in mind the relatively small offset lateral action of these, and that the actual spin speed is governed by the pressure of the user, the pad size, and even the polish itself, it's not such an issue like too high a speeds are with a rotary polisher :thumb:


----------



## Franco50

Just received the 135mm Menzerna pads (orange, white and yellow) today and being a total newbie at this, I'm surprised how firm they are. I expected them to be softer. Just shows what I know eh? :buffer:


----------



## VIPER

Franco50 said:


> Just received the 135mm Menzerna pads (orange, white and yellow) today and being a total newbie at this, I'm surprised how firm they are. I expected them to be softer. Just shows what I know eh? :buffer:


Yes, the Menzerna pads are a bit firmer than their equivalents from other ranges, but it's at no detriment to their performance. Like all pads they will soften up progressively as you use them, but if you want you can give them a 'prewash' by hand with some Fairy liquid in the sink before the first use. This will soften up the foam's cell structure a little.

For this initial wash, you will only need a few drops of Fiary liquid as there's obviously no polish residue to break down (for washing after use, you need to use a fair amount). Just make sure you rinse very thoroughly until there's no soapy suds left in the pad and the rinse water coming out of it runs clear.


----------



## markbigears

Did we ever find a supplier on here for those autoglym pads?


----------



## VIPER

markbigears said:


> Did we ever find a supplier on here for those autoglym pads?


Not as such no, see here:-

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=119628

Basically a 'find out your local AG rep' situation I think as they're not general consumer items, which is a pity.


----------



## graeme

graeme said:


> After getting some great advice from mark (pit viper) in october about a silverline i got very sidetracked with other things and never got round to getting one, i was in B+Q today and saw a bargain.
> 
> Got the Mac Allister dual random orbital sander reduced to clear from £26.99 to £19.99 so thought i'd get one. When i went through the till it had a further 10% off so ended up getting it for £18:thumb:
> 
> Just need to get some pads and find the time then i am going to try and get all the swirls and scratches out of the car. Wee bit worried as i dont have a ptg but its never been machine polished before so should be fine.


Well a month has passed since i got the mac sander and so far i've not had a chance to use it other that 2 days where the weather was naff.

However i have bought some menzerna pads and agreed with my boss to let me use the warehouse at work on sunday for as long as i want so armed with the gear and 35000sq ft of free space i hope to have a very shiney swirl and scratch free car come sunday night:thumb::buffer:


----------



## LiE

Pit Viper, could you PM me the short version please? Ta


----------



## VIPER

LiE said:


> Pit Viper, could you PM me the short version please? Ta


Just sent it :thumb:


----------



## GazT4R`

graeme said:


> Well a month has passed since i got the mac sander and so far i've not had a chance to use it other that 2 days where the weather was naff.
> 
> However i have bought some menzerna pads and agreed with my boss to let me use the warehouse at work on sunday for as long as i want so armed with the gear and 35000sq ft of free space i hope to have a very shiney swirl and scratch free car come sunday night:thumb::buffer:


I've got one and my Silver S60R is looking loverly, as is my friends black V70. He even has his own now after I started doing his and he popped to B and Q, bought one and then recieved some on the spot advice while I was working. Certainly cut the job time down . Also, after waxing it, I offered washing advice etc. to maintain it after seeing his sponge and binning it in front of him lol.
First pics my car and seconds his and we're both happy with the results, although I am jealous now and want a black car, the fleck in his looks amazing in the sunlight.
Pics are camera phone so please excuse the not amazing clarity.


















One week later he was amazed how easily the dirt fell off the car and how good it looked with just a wash.

Now got another member from the same Volvo forum in London, who I did a quick correction to his bonnet at a meet removing his grit filled sponge marks, who I may be visiting soon to do a days work plus a few other interested parties. The MAC's a great starting tool, looks good in the case too, although after a few jobs I'll be investing in some better kit just so I can use spot pads and so the head doesn't get in the way some much in the tighter spots.
Have fun from another :newbie:.


----------



## graeme

Superb pics mate my vectra's just a slightly darker shade of silver so if it comes up as good i'll be a happy man. :thumb:

Just cant wiat to get started now lol:buffer::buffer:


----------



## Franco50

I have just bought the replacment Silverline machine and some Menzerna polishing pads and am keen to get stuck into my car, once some paintwork has been sorted out at the bodyshop next week. 

My following question will seem really dumb to those in the know but how close do you take the pad to the bits you've taped off - trim, badges etc. As close as you dare or keep it back an inch or two? Presumably any missed bits need to be done by hand? I'm also a bit worried about curves in panels - e.g. where a vertical hatchback bootlid meets a horizontal bumper panel. 

I appreciate these are things that will become second nature with regular use but think 'rookie machine operator' here! :buffer:


----------



## bidderman1969

you'll need to leave freshly painted panels for a while before getting "stuck in" tho


----------



## Franco50

bidderman1969 said:


> you'll need to leave freshly painted panels for a while before getting "stuck in" tho


The car is being done Tuesday 7th July (sills and bottom of doors) to remedy some stone chip damage and I was hoping to do the detailing during w/c 20th July - is that too soon?


----------



## VIPER

Franco50 said:


> I have just bought the replacment Silverline machine and some Menzerna polishing pads and am keen to get stuck into my car, once some paintwork has been sorted out at the bodyshop next week.
> 
> My following question will seem really dumb to those in the know but how close do you take the pad to the bits you've taped off - trim, badges etc. As close as you dare or keep it back an inch or two? Presumably any missed bits need to be done by hand? I'm also a bit worried about curves in panels - e.g. where a vertical hatchback bootlid meets a horizontal bumper panel.
> 
> I appreciate these are things that will become second nature with regular use but think 'rookie machine operator' here! :buffer:


You go over the taped areas, hence the need to tape them. Otherwise you'll have corrected panels with a swirly bit around all the windows and so on. It's not always as simple as this though, especially with a random orbit machine, as you need the whole area of the pad to be in contact with the panel to help 'drive' the rotation. You can always do little areas by hand (I have) and Menzerna 203S is superb for this on a Microfibre applicator.

Again, with a random orbit or DA machine, curves don't present quite the same hazard as they would with a rotary for the same reason - the pad will tend to slow right down in rotation with the less area it's touching (it will still be oscillating, but that wouldn't damage the paint) so the sharper the curve or crease in the panel, the more likely it is to stop spinning. There are other factors involved, of course, like the pad abrasiveness and polish cut level, but generally speaking curves won't be the issue I suspect you think they will.

As said above, you need to be leaving a fair time for the paint to harden before starting this, but I'm sure you're aware of that :thumb:


----------



## Franco50

I was envisaging the tape flying off or being ripped if the pad was run over it! 

I'll ask the guys in the bodyshop how long I should leave the paint before polishing. As mentioned it is only the sills and lower doors being sprayed so I could still do other areas meantime.


----------



## bidderman1969

Franco50 said:


> I was envisaging the tape flying off or being ripped if the pad was run over it!
> 
> I'll ask the guys in the bodyshop how long I should leave the paint before polishing. As mentioned it is only the sills and lower doors being sprayed so I could still do other areas meantime.


:thumb: yeah, course you can.

its just that in your original post, you never said what was being painted, leave these areas for about 4 - 6 weeks i believe, but not sure exactly


----------



## GazT4R`

graeme said:


> Superb pics mate my vectra's just a slightly darker shade of silver so if it comes up as good i'll be a happy man. :thumb:
> 
> Just cant wiat to get started now lol:buffer::buffer:


Thanks, both cars have a couple of areas that could do with another few passes, mainly the roof and bonnet but overall they are corrected about 80% so next time I get some time I'll be finishing the job.

Buy the blue masking tape from the likes of Polished Bliss rather than the stuff down B and Q (it's more durable when you run the machine over it and there's more on a roll so it works out cheaper). Hope your car has less black trim on it too, both of those were a pain masking it all off.


----------



## kungfuman

Hi pit viper, just wondering if you can help me answer a few questions on machine polishing. My plan is to get the b&q macallister sander, the orange and yellow merz pads and the 203s polish to do some light coorective work. I'm just wondering, how often do you need to machine polish to correct the paint? The polish being abrasive and removes some paint, I take it you wont need to do it so often? how fast should the pad be turning when polishing? I was watching a video online and the pad was turning quite slow, i.e. 1-2revs/sec, but somehow I had in my mind it was more of a rapid movement to have any effect.


----------



## VIPER

*ANNOUCEMENT: No more PMs for the shortened version of this thread for the time being please.*

(I'm just making a few alterations to it)


----------



## [email protected]

Pit Viper said:


> *ANNOUCEMENT: No more PMs for the shortened version of this thread for the time being please.*
> 
> (I'm just making a few alterations to it)


offer still open m8 if you need it


----------



## Spy

Hi guys,

This is an extreeeemely long thread :doublesho

Can anyone who has followed the thread tell me what the popular recommendations are for polishers to get started with are ?

Thanks :thumb:


----------



## Yoghurtman

Spy said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> This is an extreeeemely long thread :doublesho
> 
> Can anyone who has followed the thread tell me what the popular recommendations are for polishers to get started with are ?
> 
> Thanks :thumb:


MEGUIARS #80-SERIES
• #85 Diamond Cut Compound Heavy Cut 10/10
• #84 Compound Power Cleaner Heavy Cut 9/10
• #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish Medium Cut 6/10
• #80 Speed Glaze Light-Medium Cut 4/10
• #82 Swirl Free Polish Light Cut 2/10

MENZERNA
• S34A Power Gloss Compound Heavy Cut 8/10
• PO85RD3.0x Intensive Polish Medium Cut 6/10
• PO91L Intensive Polish Medium Cut 5/10
• PO106FA Final Finish Light - Medium Cut 4/10
• PO85RD Final Finish Light Cut 2/10

SONUS
• SFX-1 Restore Medium Cut 6/10
• SFX-2 Enhance Light Cut 3/10
• SFX-3 Final Finish Light Cut 1/10

POORBOYS
• SSR3 Super Swirl Remover 3 Heavy Cut 8/10
• SSR2.5 Super Swirl Remover 2.5 Medium Cut 6/10
• SSR2 Super Swirl Remover 2 Light - Medium Cut 4/10
• SSR1 Super Swirl Remover 1 Light Cut 2/10

From Pit Vipers earlier PM :wave:


----------



## Spy

Thanks - any recommendations in this thread regarding machines ?

I know (from other threads) that the Kestrel and Megs G220 are highly rated but there seems to be mention of orbital sanders on here.

Is there a listing of recommended machines based on experience eg beginner/intermediate/advanced ?


----------



## Spy

also, any recommendations on pads to go with these ?


----------



## GazT4R`

Spy said:


> also, any recommendations on pads to go with these ?


This is an alternative thread to the 'proper' DA machines like you mentioned in the post before. The Macallister random orbit sander from B and Q is only £20 at the moment, a new range is due soon according to an employee I spoke to, so a right bargain with 3 year guarantee and a decent case. 
Recommended for it are Menzerna pads since they are 5 inch work nicely with the five inch backing plate which come with it. 
For a polish I'd recommend Menzerna 203S, it's about 5/10 cut and finishes down to a nice finish 9/10 so it's very flexible. With the three grades of Menzerna pads you can vary the cut too. I've removed some nasty RDS from a mates bonnet with the compounding pad as well as general swirling using the polishing pad or the finishing pad. Posted a couple of pages earlier are two shots of mine and a friends car that were done with the above kit (Page 151 I believe)

Hope that helps.

Gaz


----------



## Spy

Thanks - so the B&Q orbital sander is the recom mended machine.

I assume this is easier to use and less likely for a newb to cause paint damage compared to a rotary ?


----------



## nick_182

Just wanted to say a big thank you to everyone who has posted really useful info in this thread, especially Pit Viper - its exactly what I've been looking for. I'd be really grateful if you could PM me the more concise version of the thread please?!

Thanks again :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

nick_182 said:


> Just wanted to say a big thank you to everyone who has posted really useful info in this thread, especially Pit Viper - its exactly what I've been looking for. I'd be really grateful if you could PM me the more concise version of the thread please?!
> 
> Thanks again :thumb:


I can send you original version by all means :thumb: I'm supposed to rewriting it a bit, but I haven't got around to it yet. All the info's still the same though.


----------



## MattDuffy88

The MacAllister one does the job quite handily:

Using a Menz polishing pad (orange) and Megs Speed Glaze (#80)










You get some lovely results 

Matt


----------



## VIPER

Great results there, Matt - nice reflection shot :thumb:


----------



## Spy

How does an orbital polisher compare to a dual action - which are also recommended for beginners ?

Sorry for the question but i am a little confused !


----------



## Franco50

Spy said:


> How does an orbital polisher compare to a dual action - which are also recommended for beginners ?
> 
> Sorry for the question but i am a little confused !


A random orbital polisher is the same as a dual action polisher as far as I know.


----------



## VIPER

The terms are somewhat interchangable and 99% of the time you can assume they will both relate to a machine that will polish by moving the pad in an oscillating random pattern whilst slowly rotating it. It will also have no direct drive connection to the motor, meaning the rotation is only 'induced' via the oscillation and sufficient pressure will stop the spinning action.

Just occasionally you will 'dual action' being applied to a machine like the Flex 3401 which has the random oscillating pattern but has a geared connection to the motor so is directly driven like a rotary. This is then technically speaking a '_dual_ action', but as said, the vast majority of the time just take it that anyone mentioning 'random orbit' or 'dual action' will be referring to the same thing :thumb:


----------



## Spy

Pit Viper said:


> The terms are somewhat interchangable and 99% of the time you can assume they will both relate to a machine that will polish by moving the pad in an oscillating random pattern whilst slowly rotating it. It will also have no direct drive connection to the motor, meaning the rotation is only 'induced' via the oscillation and sufficient pressure will stop the spinning action.
> 
> Just occasionally you will 'dual action' being applied to a machine like the Flex 3401 which has the random oscillating pattern but has a geared connection to the motor so is directly driven like a rotary. This is then technically speaking a '_dual_ action', but as said, the vast majority of the time just take it that anyone mentioning 'random orbit' or 'dual action' will be referring to the same thing :thumb:


That's great - always a great font of knowledge :thumb:

Can I therefore assume that the Megs G220 and Kestrel DAS-6 continually mentioned on here are dual action and therefore the best bet for beginners ?


----------



## VIPER

Yes both of those, or any of the 'alternative' and much cheaper machines that this thread has been about - they all work on the same principle :thumb:


----------



## kyle_s

Can anyone point me (via a link) to any of the cheap orbital polishers please. I can't find that macallister one on the B&Q site.
Another newbie here, so thanks for the help in advance. 

Also the concise version of the thread (old version is fine) would be great. Will look forward to reading it when I reach 10 posts.

Thanks


----------



## Paintguy

Pit Viper said:


> The terms are somewhat interchangable and 99% of the time you can assume they will both relate to a machine that will polish by moving the pad in an oscillating random pattern whilst slowly rotating it. It will also have no direct drive connection to the motor, meaning the rotation is only 'induced' via the oscillation and sufficient pressure will stop the spinning action.


And just for triviality's sake, if you go back in time things were very different. The first true dual action sanders had a locking counterweight mechanism, which could convert them from rotary action (for heavy sanding/grinding), to random orbit action (final sanding), hence the term 'dual action' was born. This has been bâstardised over the years, and as you say, that vast majority of people now interchange the terms DA and Random Orbit.


----------



## VIPER

^^^ Interesting additional info there mate :thumb:

That your 205 in the avatar there? If so, any pics on this site anywhere?


----------



## Paintguy

No pics on DW as yet, but there are quite a few here if you're interested 

EDIT: Oh, and perhaps someone ought to develop a polisher with the same kind of mechanism. The best of both worlds


----------



## VIPER

Paintguy said:


> No pics on DW as yet, but there are quite a few here if you're interested
> 
> EDIT: Oh, and perhaps someone ought to develop a polisher with the same kind of mechanism. The best of both worlds


Cheers for that link :thumb: I've had a quick gander but will have a much better look later on when I've got a bit more time. Love that, mate, it looks superb :argie: (I'm a huge fan of 80's performance cars in general as you might have gathered).

My Cousin did a very similar project on a white 1.9 about 12 years or so now (bought as a damaged repairable or stolen recovered, something like that anyway, I forget), and he went through a very similar process.

P.S and on the polisher I totally agree, and it couldn't be that difficult to make, surely?


----------



## kyle_s

Thanks for the PM Pit Viper - very useful information!

While i'm ordering pads and such like, is there any particular shampoo I should use to wash the car first, or will any do?


----------



## VIPER

kyle_s said:


> Thanks for the PM Pit Viper - very useful information!
> 
> While i'm ordering pads and such like, is there any particular shampoo I should use to wash the car first, or will any do?


Were you able to open and read it? Normally you need a post count of 10 to open PMs?

Anyway, glad it was of some use :thumb:

No specifics really but Duragloss, any of the Chemical Guys ones or Optimum shampoo are all well rated, and if you're buying over the counter at Halfords or somewhere, then the Zym0l Auto Wash is a good one and not that expensive considering the brand.


----------



## Spy

Do you mind sending me the abridged version of the DAS thread as well please ?

Thanks :thumb:


----------



## Spy

Thanks Pit Viper - received the PM


----------



## Spy

PV, I have read the PM you sent me.

Interestingly, the Clarke machine is suggested to be the better machine which costs approx £50. The Kestrel DAS-6 can be picked up for circa £80 - £30 more.

Would the Kestrel be a better machine, albeit more expensive than the Clarke ? or is the Kestrel more comparable to the cheaper Silverline and Macallister ?


----------



## VIPER

I look at it like this:- with these 'alternative' machines there are kind of 2 tiers - the Silverline, MacAllister, Titan and a few others at the 'bottom end' if you like RRPing at between £20-30. Then at the upper end is the Clarke with it's more powerful motor, bigger lateral offset, better ergonomics and solid feeling build quality etc.

Then above that come the specialist detailing machines like the DAS-6 and the G220, which despite still working in a very similar way, do differ in their mechanical operation with regards to counterweights. They also differ in their backing plate attachments which facilitates more easily interchangable plates.

The difference in price between the 'top' machine of these 'alternative' group and the 'bottom' one of the specialist machines was, at the time of this thread starting larger than it is now. The Clarke, prior to it's fairly recent price rise, was under £50 and the Kestrel, at launch, was routinely retailing at a few pence under £90, so give or take, about double the price.

Now, however, the Clarke is almost £60 and the Kestrel can had for about £80 so quite a bit closer than they used to be and that then poses the question which is the better option? In all honesty at both their former prices I would have said the Clarke, but these days with not much more than £20 between them, then I'd probably say the DAS-6, just for the versatility with the backing plate issue.


----------



## Spy

Thanks PV, a very informative response, as always


----------



## mellowfellow

i did these with a kinzo 10 inch orbital.


----------



## kyle_s

I just bought the MacAllister from B&Q (as I'm tight and a noobie) and will now be ordering the orange and yellow pads from CYC, and the Menzerna 203S. 
Is the Menzerna ok for VAG paint, and more specifically, MK2 (1991) red golf paint? I need to remove a fair amount of oxidation on the bonnet and shine up the intense fade on the roof.

I was thinking of using Clearkote Moose Wax on top of the polish (as I already have a new bottle). Is this an ok combo?

Also what shampoo should I use or does it not matter. Think I have some turtle wax shampoo at the moment, although it is very old, so could do with some new stuff. Any suggestions?


----------



## mellowfellow

can i ask are the SERIOUS PERFORMANCE pads any good , i am a newbie and cant afford any of bigger brands at moment, and i am also going to buy the macallister ROS , once i have done a few friends and neighbours cars then i will hopefully be able to afford bigger and better products .


----------



## VIPER

I bought the 150 x 50 mm blue polishing and red finishing ones quite a long time ago. I don't think either are still available from Alex in the same sizes as this now, but the same colours still relate to the same types of pad I think.

Both were excellent actually and although the blue polishing one took some real hammer over about a year, and finally gave up the ghost after doing a large panel van with Autoglym SRP, I'm still using the red finishing one to this day. It's softer than the menzena yellow finishing pad so I tend to use the SP one on my single stage black paint because it's quite soft and easily marred.

The menzena 135mm pad range _are_ decently priced though compared to other brands, so make sure you check them out before deciding on the SP ones.


----------



## mellowfellow

ok great advice thanks , can i have the shortened version of this thread please. think i have enough posts now ? 
ps what did you think of my results with KInzo...lol , those were taken 4 years ago and unfortunatlely car no longer exists as person i sold it to had an altercation with a tractor !


----------



## mellowfellow

would this pad fit ok on a macallister ROS ? thanks 
http://www.elitecarcare.co.uk/elite-coolfoam-150mm-6-red-waffle-finishing-pad.php?cPath=69


----------



## Sick Puppy

Hi everyone, I'm pretty much in the UK for a few more days- can anyone let me know who does overnight delivery of the Silverline random polisher? If possilbe I'd like to get my hands on one by Tuesday. I know it's really late notice, but only just had the chance to do some reading of this thread (family stuff- not here for a holiday!), I got up to p33, and read from p155 back to 122 by 2am last night lol 

If possible I'd like the Orange one although I realise it is the older model (it is the one everyone talks about, hence my wanting it), but what about the replacement and the Silverstorm models? Sound like newer models, but not as good? 

Thanks for your time!


----------



## Tiggs

I bought the silverline polisher when this thread had 50 views, had good results then went onto the Kestra DA.

it now has *150'000+* views it has got to be a detailing world record...........all respect to the OP.

:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:


----------



## baptistsan

After having mine sat in the garage for over a month I finally broke mine out and attacked the Volvo with it. No problem with it not rotating or being too slow in use, didn't even need to modify it! Only thing is I really don't notice any difference in the speed of the machine when cranking it up. What am I doing wrong?

Despite this the Volvo is looking uber shiny


----------



## VIPER

Tiggs said:


> I bought the silverline polisher when this thread had 50 views, had good results then went onto the Kestra DA.
> 
> it now has *150'000+* views it has got to be a detailing world record...........*all respect to the OP.*
> 
> :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:


The OP? behave will you! :lol: I don't want to blow my own trumpet here, but I think you'll find it's MY thread! 

:lol: :lol: I'm only messing, mate (but it _is_ my thread )


----------



## Tiggs

> but I think you'll find it's MY thread!


:argie: ALL HAIL THE VIPER :argie:

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

.


----------



## VIPER

^^^ :lol: :lol:

Now bring me grapes, women and tell the gladiators to prepare!

:lol: :lol:


----------



## Tiggs

^^^^^

Women indeed.. what would the other half say

PMSL.....................:lol::lol:



:lol::lol:





.


----------



## wibble

Sick Puppy said:


> Hi everyone, I'm pretty much in the UK for a few more days- can anyone let me know who does overnight delivery of the Silverline random polisher? If possilbe I'd like to get my hands on one by Tuesday. I know it's really late notice, but only just had the chance to do some reading of this thread (family stuff- not here for a holiday!), I got up to p33, and read from p155 back to 122 by 2am last night lol
> 
> If possible I'd like the Orange one although I realise it is the older model (it is the one everyone talks about, hence my wanting it), but what about the replacement and the Silverstorm models? Sound like newer models, but not as good?
> 
> Thanks for your time!


If you need one quick, you may be better off picking up a Mac from B&Q instead.


----------



## kyle_s

Pit Viper said:


> Were you able to open and read it? Normally you need a post count of 10 to open PMs?
> 
> Anyway, glad it was of some use :thumb:
> 
> No specifics really but Duragloss, any of the Chemical Guys ones or Optimum shampoo are all well rated, and if you're buying over the counter at Halfords or somewhere, then the Zym0l Auto Wash is a good one and not that expensive considering the brand.


Well, yes I was able to read it because it was all in the email that got sent to me saying I had a PM :thumb:
Very helpful and aided me in what polisher I purchased. Just waiting on the pads and polish to turn up.

Thinking of getting either Carlack 68 shampoo or dodo born to be mild. Just on teh wash forum to work out which one I should go for.

Thanks for all the help, I certainly am learning a lot about what I thought was just cleaning my car!


----------



## maersk

Didn't know B&Q did a line in Scottish Women; are they cheap?............:doublesho


----------



## Franco50

Well I've been using my Silverline for the first time today. Not wishing to be too aggressive I've been trying to remove some pretty light scratches with Autoglym SRP on the yellow Menz pad but without much success I have to say. I think I have worked in the polish sufficiently as it has gone clear. 
I also have Autoglym Paint Restorer in my armoury and the white and orange Menz pads - can anyone suggest a combination that might be a better option to attack the scratches? My intention after finishing with SRP is to put some Autoglym Extra Gloss Protection on top and, when I have the time, a coat or two of High Def Wax.

So far have only managed to do the rear of the car plus drivers side and front end as persistent rain showers keep interrupting play and I have to put the car in the garage until things dry up (my garage isn't wide enough to let me do the sides of the car in situ.)


----------



## mellowfellow

try purchasing some compounding polish , Mezerna or similar and start with least abrasive combo first AG paint restorer sholud basically only be used in extreme circumstances , it even tells you that on the label . Failing that try some metallic t cut manually to get scratches out , then your SRP .


----------



## VIPER

SRP is great by machine, but it's cut level is quite low even by this method and it's mainly going to be filling really. Paint Renovator I found dries out too fast by machine and so the abrasives never get a chance to really do anything. Admittedly I didn't persist and experiment with the PR as I've got other better products, it was just a quick 'try it and see' sort of thing.

I'd recommend Menzerna 203S if you're only going to buy one machine polish. On the orange polishing pad it's got decent cut and correction ability and will often finish down sufficiently sharpy to not require a follow up refining stage. Bt if it does, then on the yellow finishing pad, it's a great finishing polish in its own right. The versatility of 203S is it's great strength :thumb: It's also very capable by hand.


----------



## ZedFour

I have just given the Mac it's first run with SRP on the X3 (Black Sapphire). I went for a layer spead at speed 1.5 and applied at speed 4 until it broke down, then a second layer at speed 2.5 so as not to remove the original layer. All topped off with 2 coats of EGP and 1 of Dodo Blue Velvet (not by machine!!!).

The results to my eyes are stunning. There are a few marks that will need something a bit more agressive (Menz 203S), but that will have to wait until I've got more time and more confidence with the machine...

I'll get some pics taken tonight...

Also I started out with the Menz Orange pad but that started to tear away from the velcro backing, I remember someone mentioning this before but can't find it. Has anyone seen this?


----------



## Clean-my-sxi

woooo 157 pages, i never even ended up using one, i purchased the performance tools one but ended up takeing it back coz i saw a good kestral deal.

which will hopefully come out the box next week and i can try my first attempt at paint correction, he says lol, i put pit vipers sander on the map.:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Mr Adds

Having finally read through this thread I have just got back from B&Q with the Mac, reduced from £41 to £20.

To make sure I get the right pads, I need a polishing pad and a finishing pad?

NE Detailing is my nearest shop (10 mins) and they sell all the 3M pads.

Going to be using SRP or Lime Prime, then a coat of PB blackhole then Dodo Banana armour. A couple of polishing pads and a finishing pad should do the trick?

Thanks

Adam


----------



## GazT4R`

Pit Viper said:


> SRP is great by machine, but it's cut level is quite low even by this method and it's mainly going to be filling really. Paint Renovator I found dries out too fast by machine and so the abrasives never get a chance to really do anything. Admittedly I didn't persist and experiment with the PR as I've got other better products, it was just a quick 'try it and see' sort of thing.
> 
> I'd recommend Menzerna 203S if you're only going to buy one machine polish. On the orange polishing pad it's got decent cut and correction ability and will often finish down sufficiently sharpy to not require a follow up refining stage. Bt if it does, then on the yellow finishing pad, it's a great finishing polish in its own right. The versatility of 203S is it's great strength :thumb: It's also very capable by hand.


Definately with Pit Viper on the versitility of the Menz 203S. If you look on Page 151 there two pics of my efforts (newbie) on mine and a friends Volvo using the just the Menz pads to vary the cut. 
It's a great compound and if you buy only one I'd, as Pit Viper has, recommend it.


----------



## Raife

Mr Adds said:


> Having finally read through this thread I have just got back from B&Q with the Mac, reduced from £41 to £20.
> 
> To make sure I get the right pads, I need a polishing pad and a finishing pad?
> 
> NE Detailing is my nearest shop (10 mins) and they sell all the 3M pads.
> 
> Going to be using SRP or Lime Prime, then a coat of PB blackhole then Dodo Banana armour. A couple of polishing pads and a finishing pad should do the trick?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Adam


Im in the same boat as you buddy, I think I am right ion saying SRB and black hole are effectively the same thing so just use one or 'tother.


----------



## russ9898

Just been and bought a mac from b&q. looking forward to some good weather once my pads are here. think ill practice on my old dears car first lol


----------



## VIPER

Raife said:


> Im in the same boat as you buddy, I think I am right ion saying SRB and black hole are effectively the same thing so just use one or 'tother.


SRP and Black Hole aren't the same really. SRP is mildly abrasive and BH is totally non abrasive which is the fundamental difference. SRP has some protective properties and BH doesn't. And for pure richness and depth of gloss, particularly on dark and single stage paints, BH is far better for this IME. SRP is up there as the best product in it's sector but it's not really something that should be compared to BH with the former being an All In One and the other a glaze :thumb:

Now that ^^ was written for the benefit of newbies to detailing to highlight the differences, but I do understand why you'd say that; by machine they will both cleanse the paint surface (by mild abrasive and chemical process for SRP and just chemically for the BH), and improve the colour depth and gloss of the paint, whilst laying down a good base layer for subsequent protection products to adhere to. So, in that respect, yes they are similar in what they'll do.


----------



## aqueoushumour01

on a practical note, how are these mac or any other machines powered - the road where I park is a fair distance from the house, and even if I bring it closer it'd still be a good 5-10 metres away. Have these things got long leads, or is it possible to plug it into the cig lighter in the car via an adapter?


----------



## VIPER

aqueoushumour01 said:


> on a practical note, how are these mac or any other machines powered - the road where I park is a fair distance from the house, and even if I bring it closer it'd still be a good 5-10 metres away. Have these things got long leads, or is it possible to plug it into the cig lighter in the car via an adapter?


They are all 240v mains and non of them has a long lead - quite the opposite actually. Both of mine (the original orange Silverline and my Clarke CROS-2) only had leads about 2 metres but I've fitted longer ones to both machines now, about 4 metres on the silverline and about 7 metres on the Clarke.

I reckon you'd need an extension reel for your situation, mate :thumb:

Or to use from the car you'd need a power inverter that's capable of at least 500w for most of the machines and about 800w for the Clarke.


----------



## Eckchaz

I'm sorry if i'm covering old ground but i've got a headache after 50 pages reading..

I've toyed with the idea for years but seriously looking for one now, as we've brought 3rd car in a metallic pearl bronze which requires alot off work & I want to keep some cartrillidge from my shoulder downwards when I get older!

I dont want to spend more than £50 really, so was looking at the silverline models as they seem to be priced from £35-£70 but I wanted to ask if they were orbital polishers as it dont state on various sites I've looked at?

Also.. what other ones do you recommend, as the initial links you guys have posted seem to end up with page/item removals?!

Sorry again if i'm covering old ground and thank you!


----------



## Doc

I cracked open the Silverline today and used SRP with an Orange pad and wow.....it has better results than Menzerna Intensive Polish.
Still not overly impressed with the machine, it doesn't spin freely and has just wrecked a pad lol.


----------



## ZedFour

Doc said:


> I cracked open the Silverline today and used SRP with an Orange pad and wow.....it has better results than Menzerna Intensive Polish.
> Still not overly impressed with the machine, it doesn't spin freely and has just wrecked a pad lol.


I found SRP on the Yellow pad spun better on my Mac. However, I also found that as my machine was new, I spun it at top speed with no pad or resistance and it seemed to 'free-up' after a few seconds...


----------



## hitharder

i have just found the lidl one in my house any one used it? is it ok? can u fit custom pads to it?


----------



## kungfuman

Can the yellow menzerna pad be used for applying liquid waxes also? or do people normally apply by hand?


----------



## Doc

kungfuman said:


> Can the yellow menzerna pad be used for applying liquid waxes also? or do people normally apply by hand?


I would not recommend it, the yellow pad has some cut and is designed to be used with polish.


----------



## Bridges

Ive ordered the Orange silverline ro sander and cant wait to give it a go. Only thing tho, a backing plate is not needed isit as the tool has a hook & loop, the polishing pads will just stick on wont they!!! :S


----------



## VIPER

Doc said:


> I would not recommend it, the yellow pad has some cut and is designed to be used with polish.


Agreed. The Menz yellow is a little firmer than other brands' finishing pads and so not best suited for liquid waxes really.



Bridges said:


> Ive ordered the Orange silverline ro sander and cant wait to give it a go. Only thing tho, a backing plate is not needed isit as the tool has a hook & loop, the polishing pads will just stick on wont they!!! :S


Yes, the pads just stick to the 'velcro' backing plate that's on the machine.


----------



## kungfuman

Doc said:


> I would not recommend it, the yellow pad has some cut and is designed to be used with polish.


I've got myself a mac sander and looking to get the menz 203s yellow/orange combo to correct some swirls. but for general applying SRP and waxes, which pad would you guys recommend? I'm looking to get my stuff from elitecarcare.com, so is there any of their pads that are good for the job?


----------



## VIPER

kungfuman said:


> I've got myself a mac sander and looking to get the menz 203s yellow/orange combo to correct some swirls. but for general applying SRP and waxes, which pad would you guys recommend? I'm looking to get my stuff from elitecarcare.com, so is there any of their pads that are good for the job?


For the SRP then the yellow Menz pad will still be fine and will work the mild abrasives in it very well.

For any product you're applying that has no cut at all then if you're going to Elite, their own brand coolfoam red finishing pads will be fine.


----------



## Pat

*Finally got there*

Yes, I've done it. I finally read every page on this thread.

I recently bought a MAC from B&Q and some 3M pads which I will probably try first with some SRP to get used to the machine and then move on to some paint correction.

Thanks to PV and everyone who has contributed to an absolutely wonderful thread.

Pat


----------



## Pat

*10th Post*

Hey, I just noticed I've reached 10 posts - PV please please please send me the abridged version of the thread.

Pat


----------



## Doc

kungfuman said:


> I've got myself a mac sander and looking to get the menz 203s yellow/orange combo to correct some swirls. but for general applying SRP and waxes, which pad would you guys recommend? I'm looking to get my stuff from elitecarcare.com, so is there any of their pads that are good for the job?


I used Orange and SRP and it worked brilliantly! The machine just has enough grunt to get the abrasives working.
I bought a red finishing pad that was slightly oversized but works great to apply blackfire wet diamond also.


----------



## SuperchargedLlama

Doc said:


> I used Orange and SRP and it worked brilliantly! The machine just has enough grunt to get the abrasives working.
> I bought a red finishing pad that was slightly oversized but works great to apply blackfire wet diamond also.


See, my Orange Silverline is just a heap of [email protected] lol it can't take any load at all, the pad just stops.


----------



## Bridges

I did order the orange silverline but the company emailed me saying it was discontinued although their internet site said they were in stock!!! But as your having problems then maybe its a good thing, il go to b&q and look at the ones they have there


----------



## VIPER

Pat said:


> Hey, I just noticed I've reached 10 posts - PV please please please send me the abridged version of the thread.
> 
> Pat


I will provided you stop calling me PV - as you can see, that doesn't apply anymore  I'll send it later today :thumb:.



Mother-Goose said:


> See, my Orange Silverline is just a heap of [email protected] lol it can't take any load at all, the pad just stops.


It's faulty then. I can almost lean all my weight on mine without it stopping (not that I do that of course in use, it was just a test of the torque of the machine I did recently when doing a caravan with it).


----------



## Franco50

Bridges said:


> I did order the orange silverline but the company emailed me saying it was discontinued although their internet site said they were in stock!!! But as your having problems then maybe its a good thing, il go to b&q and look at the ones they have there


I had that very problem a few weeks back when I tried to order the orange one and ended up getting the replacement model which has a roughly similar spec. If you check my earlier post HERE it shows the details of the machine.

I've found it to be OK in use although I was a bit wary of applying too much pressure anyway and tried to let the pad/polish combination do the work. I still have a few small scratches to eliminate but I intend giving the car a second hit using Viper's recommended Menzerna 203S so hopefully that will improve things.


----------



## Pat

Thank you Mr. Viper, Sir, Your Honour...

Hadn't noticed the name change as I was so engrossed in the thread detail.

Off work today and believe it or not there's a big bright disc shining in the sky - I think they call in the sun! :lol:

Took the oportunity to wash and clay the bonnet and have a play with the MAC using just SRP - I'm well chuffed with the result as I hadn't really known what to expect for my first effort. 

I will need to do some proper paint correction soon - looking forward to it.

Roll on the weekend and hopefully some more good weather.

Pat


----------



## VIPER

*Announcement*

*No more requests for the quick guide PM for the time being please.*

It needs re-writing and for some reason now doesn't fit into one PM, so if it's going to have to be split into 2 parts, then I can expand a little on a few areas that had to be shortened before.

Cheers
Viper


----------



## Doc

Mother-Goose said:


> See, my Orange Silverline is just a heap of [email protected] lol it can't take any load at all, the pad just stops.


I kept giving the pad a squirt of QD to help, it bogged down on wonky sections but worked fine on flat areas.


----------



## VIPER

Doc said:


> I kept giving the pad a squirt of QD to help, it bogged down on wonky sections but worked fine on flat areas.


General characteristic of DA machines that, and some cope with surface curves better than others. It's just that they need a good proportion of the surface area of the pad to be in contact with the panel to help 'drive' the rotations. Something that a rotary won't have a problem with as obviously it's directly driven and DA's only have 'induced' rotations.


----------



## ZedFour

Mother-Goose said:


> See, my Orange Silverline is just a heap of [email protected] lol it can't take any load at all, the pad just stops.


Have you tried letting it spin with no resistance for a minute or two?

My Mac was a little _slow_ but soon freed up after the above...


----------



## VIPER

Mine seemed to gain torque the more I used it, although the Clarke one hasn't - it's just the same as it was straight out of the box.


----------



## Tom90

I bought my Mac today from my local BnQ for £20, I'm very impressed with it....

All I have to do is buy some pads, can anyone recommend some for me?


----------



## VIPER

The Menzerna 135mm orange polishing and yellow finishing pads if you're using the 125mm backing plate (which are the only real option at this size).

Or if you're going to use the 150mm plate then you have a wealth of choice but Meguiars and Lake Country are the two popular options :thumb:


----------



## Tom90

Would you recommend going for the 150mm plate so I have more choice?


----------



## VIPER

I can't really answer that as I don't have that machine so wouldn't be able to say if it performs better with one or the other. Hopefully someone who does have one of these (and there are quite a few now I think), can chip in here with some info?

But, just on the pad choice, then it would make more sense to buy for the 150mm plate, as you do have options to use them on the smaller plate if needs be, but you couldn't use the smaller Menz pads on the larger plate.


----------



## Bridges

Well the silverline was not in stock from toolbox.co.uk although it stated yes on their website!! But due to me buying the menz 125mm pads ready for the silverline i bought the performance power. Got a few days off next will give my car its 1st ever polish


----------



## Tom90

This may sound stupid, But do i just buy the pads and stick them onto the velcro plate that comes with the polisher? Or do I have to buy something else?

Thanks
Tom


----------



## ZedFour

Viper said:


> I can't really answer that as I don't have that machine so wouldn't be able to say if it performs better with one or the other. Hopefully someone who does have one of these (and there are quite a few now I think), can chip in here with some info?
> 
> But, just on the pad choice, then it would make more sense to buy for the 150mm plate, as you do have options to use them on the smaller plate if needs be, but you couldn't use the smaller Menz pads on the larger plate.


I would have thought that the MAC would struggle with a 150mm pad as it does have a tendancy to bog down with the smaller one...


----------



## Doc

Tom90 said:


> This may sound stupid, But do i just buy the pads and stick them onto the velcro plate that comes with the polisher? Or do I have to buy something else?
> 
> Thanks
> Tom


The pads have an opposing velcro backing


----------



## Tom90

thanks DOC

ZedFour, I'm going to go with the small pad, I've only got a little Fiesta so it shouldnt make tooo much of a difference 


I just need to get my hands on a practice panel


----------



## rob2278

http://www.silverlinetools.com/images/library/stock/webbig/125563.jpg
Has anyone tried one of these?? It's from the Silverline Silver storm range.


----------



## dholdi

rob2278 said:


> http://www.silverlinetools.com/images/library/stock/webbig/125563.jpg
> Has anyone tried one of these?? It's from the Silverline Silver storm range.


Thats very similar to the macallister that used to be on sale at b&q and the one I bought with the thinking that if I didnt get the hang of this machine polishing it could be used for sanding around the house. I achieved what i considered to be excellent results using it, the only downside being its bulkiness in close proximity to the pad plate. This made it difficult to get under the wing mirrors for example and I had to be careful when doing the top face of the rear bumper not to catch the bootlid with the edge of the machine. having said that it did a great job and an added bonus was it is extremely quiet.
HTH


----------



## jonnywells

Right been flicking though the 160 odd pages 

Whats the current best budget random orbital polisher? My g/f just got a new black streetka my normal detailing is not cutting it (sorry for the pun!) and it beens some more heavy swirl removal.


----------



## Katana

rob2278 said:


> http://www.silverlinetools.com/images/library/stock/webbig/125563.jpg
> Has anyone tried one of these?? It's from the Silverline Silver storm range.


Yes i bought this one a while back.
I spent 4 hours doing the bonnet on my old car with it, i found it very easy to use and hold for extended periods, even for someone like me with muscle and joint problems i wasn't aching too bad when i finished.
My only complaint was the position of the speed dial, it's a bit awkward since you can't see it while standing over it, but i got used to it after a while and could change speeds by feel and noise.

I chose to buy 135mm Menzerna Polishing and Finishing pads with some Megs #80 as the polish. Due to the noise of my bonnet vibrating i didn't take the machine above speed 2 with polishing, so it took me some time to work the #80 properly, if you don't care about the neighbours crank up the speed.

Some pics of my afternoon with it.

Bonnet upon starting









Little patch to start with, i used speed 4 on the machine for this, then decided to ramp it down due to the noise.









The machine with a menz polishing pad, i also removed the black plastic bit behind the backing plate.









About half way through, there is a dodgy bit in the middle where i didn't work the polish long enough so you can see the trails.









This is after i finished and before and protection, i'd say i got about 50-60% of the light-medium swirls, i imagine the soft french paint made it easy though.


----------



## rob2278

Hopefully I will get good results with it too!!


----------



## Tom90

Hmmm, I might have to pop some of that megs#80 into my order of pads as well 

I wonder if there is away of removing the magnesium part behind the backing plate on the Mac.....


----------



## rob2278

Just removed the plastic part on my Silverline. Don't want to risk any damage now!!:buffer:


----------



## Tom90

I've just managed to remove the magnesium part of the mac, giving me more clearance


----------



## Faythur

Tom90 said:


> I've just managed to remove the magnesium part of the mac, giving me more clearance


Any pics/instructions?

Cheers :wave:


----------



## Pat

Tom90 said:


> I've just managed to remove the magnesium part of the mac, giving me more clearance


Would be interested in finding out how you did this as well as the extra clearance would also give extra peace of mind I reckon!!:thumb:

Pat


----------



## rob2278

Pat said:


> Would be interested in finding out how you did this as well as the extra clearance would also give extra peace of mind I reckon!!:thumb:
> 
> Pat


I would think that most of these machines are basically the same with regards to the build of them. On my Silverline, it was a case of removing the hook & loop plate, then removing 4 screws which held the part on. I may be wrong though!!


----------



## Pat

Will have a look later - just being a lazy sod today


----------



## Tom90

I'll get pictures later, But basically I removed the top four screws... then removed the front and back screws, removed four screws which were behind the backing plate. then use a screw driver to prise apart the two magnesium parts... then put your backing plate back on 

Pics will follow either later today or tomorrow


----------



## Doc

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=130018

Thought you might like the pictures from the results of a Silverline orange with yellow and red pads


----------



## rob2278

Doc said:


> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=130018
> 
> Thought you might like the pictures from the results of a Silverline orange with yellow and red pads


Looks great!! Thanks for sharing:thumb::buffer:


----------



## Tom_S4

Hi all, I took the plunge and bought the MAC Sander since it was on special offer at my local B&Q (Sutton, Surrey, they still have another 2 left I think). I have ordered the white/orange/yellow 135mm Menzerna pads but wanted some advice on what polishes to buy for them.

My 1999 Audi has black metalic mica paint and i'm looking to correct RDS and some bad scoring (brillo pad work by the previous owner) as well as remove some emulsion that appears to have sunk into the lacquer (tried claying etc).

I can only really afford two polishes so *which would you recommend* with the above equipment to get the greatest range of correction and a good final finish on my paint type? Menzerna RD3.02 and Menzerna 85RE or a pair of something completely different (megs)?


----------



## VIPER

Personally I'd go for the two you've mentioned if you are only buying 2, and with the range of Menz pads you've got, you have quite a few combinations to try there that should be able to give you the desired results.

Just be careful with the white pad as it is quite hard.


----------



## Tom90

yeh, not much point using the white pad unless your car is disgustingly swirled or faded mate


----------



## Pat

Tom90 said:


> I'll get pictures later, But basically I removed the top four screws... then removed the front and back screws, removed four screws which were behind the backing plate. then use a screw driver to prise apart the two magnesium parts... then put your backing plate back on
> 
> Pics will follow either later today or tomorrow


Thanks for that Tom90 - will tackle my MAC later. It should make using it much easier and also allow use of the 125mm head in hard to reach places.

P


----------



## Tom90

No worries Pat, I'm just uploading pictures now I'll edit them into this post when i've got them up 

Undo the screws which are on the magnesium part 









Remove backing plate and unscrew black screws behind










Use a screwdriver to remove this










Unscrew here










and here









take off the parts, and put your backing plate back on 









Test to see how it moves so you are familar with it


----------



## Tom90

Pictures added


----------



## rugbymad

*newbie in need of advice.*

hi,
having read a fair few post now and i'm more confused on what to buy.
ive always done it by hand before with good results on good paint work to start with. i used the meguires 3 step with clay bar to start with.

my question s are . i would like to by a orbital to use on wifes 52 plate hyundai coupe which needs a sorting to. i plan to clay bar to start with and them t cut followed by meguires 3 step. it does need a good deep clean.

what is a good orbital to buy 
what are good pads to buy
do i need any other accesories.
any more suggestions welcome. products etc

i like the price of £20 for the orbital

the car is a deep blue.

thanks 
steph


----------



## Tom90

rugby, i'd do what i'm doing (as I'm a complete nooby)

Buy the Mac from BnQ, then order a finishing pad and polishing pad, order to polishes
(I've got megs #80 "speed glaze" and dodo juice lime prime)

Accesories wise I'd just buy some blue tape to cover up plastics, perhaps a small spray bottle for water to help with applying sealants and waxes 

Then invest in a good wax 

I'd avoid T-cut mate, its a bit harsh on the paintwork (can be fine in the right hands, but there's much better products out there)


(I've been reading up for months on the best plan before I even bothered starting to buy stuff, so take your time so your sure in your mind what you are doing  )

I hope that helps


----------



## rugbymad

thx .. i went and bought the mac from b and q.. now to find poloishin and finishing pads.


----------



## rugbymad

should i just clay bar and use the meguires 3 step then?

what pads should i buy and where from?

many thx

steph


----------



## Yoghurtman

Steph

I followed the advise on this thread and got the following for my Mac.

135mm Menzerna pads, orange and yellow (polish & finish)

Menzerna RD3.02 and PO85RE polishes,

all from Polished Bliss, link below

http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/car-care-products-polish.html

There are obviously lots of other choices of product and suppliers out there. I've now done my 2 cars and I'm very pleased with the results.

:wave:


----------



## rugbymad

thx m8.

what pads would you recommend for the mac? and for to bring the paintwork back. also where to buy them from.

soz for all stupid q's but just wanna make sure doing it the right way.


----------



## rugbymad

thx m8 what pads would you recommend for the ba nd q machine/ i bought one tonight. where is the best place to buy them?

thx


----------



## davcohen

I to am joining the bandwagon and bagged myself a Mac, From reading some of the many many posts :doublesho I am going to buy myself the orange and yellow pads but has anyone posted up a tutorial of what to use each one for.

I have some SRP but havent worked out what the different pads actually do etc


----------



## Doc

davcohen said:


> I to am joining the bandwagon and bagged myself a Mac, From reading some of the many many posts :doublesho I am going to buy myself the orange and yellow pads but has anyone posted up a tutorial of what to use each one for.
> 
> I have some SRP but havent worked out what the different pads actually do etc


orange pad is more aggressive than the yellow so start low and work up.
I found SRP and the yellow pad a good combination.


----------



## Faythur

See pics on previous page - #1624 by Tom90 for removal of magnesium part on the B&Q Mac.

Cheers fella :wave: :buffer:


----------



## Tom90

I also went for the menzerna Orange and Yellow pads, I've get to try them, I'm awaiting a scrap panel to do some practice on first


----------



## davcohen

Doc said:


> orange pad is more aggressive than the yellow so start low and work up.
> I found SRP and the yellow pad a good combination.


Sounds good but is there a post anywhere giving you the basics of how to start and polish using the machine, I have some light swirl marks that just need a few goings over with polish hence trying this method.

i will be removing the casing aswel as suggested thanks Faythur


----------



## VIPER

davcohen said:


> Sounds good but is there a post anywhere giving you the basics of how to start and polish using the machine, I have some light swirl marks that just need a few goings over with polish hence trying this method.
> 
> i will be removing the casing aswel as suggested thanks Faythur


This is the method I use:-

Select a working area of about 1 square foot (or comparable surface area section of a panel). Put about 4 pea sized blobs on the pad (or a thin 'X') for the initial section, then after this you'll probably only need 1 or 2 blobs per section.


----------



## lonterra

Tom90 said:


> I've just managed to remove the magnesium part of the mac, giving me more clearance


Great suggestion Tom90. I've just done this to mine, too.

However, being a :newbie: and a bit paranoid about this kind of thing, I was a bit concerned about the four 'lugs' left on the main body of the Mac after removing the Magnesium part (Arrowed on pic)










Knowing me, I'm likely to be polishing in a tight spot or round a corner, and scrape these on the bodywork, leaving some rather annoying scratches. :doublesho

So, rather than saw these off (and never being able to rebuild the Mac if needed) I decided to create a little 'protection' around them.

I cut off two edges from an old Megs yellow applicator (Which, handily, are hollow inside) and turned them inside out to get rid of that little ridge on the edge.

Then I just poked two holes straight through them in line with the holes on the lugs, and cable-tied them onto the Mac - conveniently managing to find some yellow cable ties along the way. 



















Now I'm a bit more confident that I've got both a bit more space to play with, and less chance of messing things up by bashing some paintwork along the way.


----------



## Tom90

Great Idea mate, I shall be doing this to mine as well


----------



## davcohen

thanks for the above guide about using the machine however can you advise me about the pads.

should i buy both pads? so how does it work do you go over the car with a orange one with SRP then go over it with yellow one then wax or have i missed something?

once your done with the above are you just supposed to wipe the panel down with a microfiber cloth

(sorry a noob here)


----------



## Dunkwho

You can put the SRP on with either the orange polishing or yellow finishing pads, to be honest you probably won't see any better results using the orange polishing pad because there's very little "cut" in SRP, the yellow will probably clean up the panels and lay down what ever fillers it can into the swirls. Wax I'd apply by hand although I've seen that it is possible to spread with a polisher - frankly I use FK1000 sealant and its a doddle to use by hand with a foam applicator, it won't catch you out with nasty bits if you put it on too thick (the main advantage of putting some waxes on by machine being that you put it on very thinly).

A bit of a heads up on the polishes available in the samples forum (just below this tools and microfibers one), I've got a good pot of megs 205 at home which is rated very well (a more modern version of megs#80 which is easier to work) plus there is now a dodo sample thread where you can pick up small pots of lime prime or lime prime lite for £5 each plus p&p.


----------



## Katana

If you are only using SRP just get a couple of yellow finishing pads.
By the way, if you haven't used SRP before, it tends to dry out quite quickly so mist the pad with some Quick Detailer or water beforehand, and if the machine/pad starts to skip on the paint then stop and mist again.

Wax should be applied with a foam applicator pad, like the Meguiars ones, though Clean Your Car do some generic ones pretty cheap, and then buffed off with a good quality microfiber like Eurow shagpile.


----------



## Faythur

Tom90 said:


> Great Idea mate, I shall be doing this to mine as well


Me too...:thumb:


----------



## Tom90

right today is the day 

I'm going to do the bonnet of my pride and joy, I'll try and get 50/50 shots


----------



## davcohen

Ok well the reason i say SRP is because i have used it once before when i went over my old red astra which as im sure you can all guess was practically white, i went over the whole car with autoglym PR then went over the whole car with SRP by hand it took me like 3 days but the car came out with a mirror finish.

However when using SRP i thought by adding a touch of water the polish wont work as effectively as its kind of broken down and i wouldnt see anything to wipe off, I do also have some EG. i was going to add I dont currently have any wax apart from a Turtle Wax from my local supermarket which im not sure is any good (i wasnt even thinking of applying wax by machine)

ill stick with the yellow pads, going over the car a few times


----------



## Tom90

srp is ok mate, you'll find alot of that mirror finish will wash away because its leaves behind alot of gloss and fillers 

dodojuice limeprime doesnt have any fillers, so any swirl removing that you can see has actually happened


----------



## Tom90

ps, just finished doing the bonnet, I decided to use lime prime via the polishing pad then a second hit with the finishing pad, I'm very impressed, It wasnt a 100% correction I'd say around 70%, BUT the shine has improved and looks much better in the sun 

I then finished it off with one layer of Dodo Juice Purple Haze


----------



## davcohen

i was under the impression using SRP adds polish and fillers but also has a bit of cut into it either way once it was all done I thought everything was sealed with Wax.

are Dodo products really that good, I thought alot of people use poorboys stuff


----------



## Faythur

I used mine for the first time today :buffer::newbie:

It's much harder work than you might think!

The Mac worked brilliantly I thought - a magic little piece of kit for a paultry 20 quid :thumb:

On my BM [read rock hard!] paint I ended up using 3M Extrafine on a Menz orange polishing pad, followed by the same again on the yellow finishing pad, followed by Lime Prime on a Lake Country CCS green [polishing, but much softer, dimple] pad and finally Blackfire Midnight Sun paste wax applied by hand.

Initially I had thought of using all Blackfire stuff which I bought, but it turns out that the so called Gloss Enhancing Polish doesn't actually have _any_ cutting action! :wall: just 'rounding off' on swirls and full of fillers, which is what I didn't want.


----------



## MattDuffy88

If you take the Magnesium bit off the Mac then watch your fingers on the dust extraction impeller/fan thingy, I just caught my finger end in it earlier and it bloody hurts. I think i'll make a close fitting guard out of alu plate to keep my fingers in one piece.

A plus point to taking it off is that it makes the machine a fair bit more powerful as the backing plate isn't fighting with the rubber seal on the base of the magnesium part. Plus you're not scared of catching the paint with the magnesium part either. :thumb:

Happy polishing :buffer:.


----------



## Algonquin

*Mac Allister DA Sander*

Hi All, here's my story.........

After taking the time to read most of this thread I finally took the plunge and went to my local B&Q and bought the last MacAllister Random Orbit Sander they had in stock on Thursday evening. After doing some further research on this site and finally reaching the end of this topic thread I decided that maybe I was better off with a pukka DA polisher and bit the bullet . . . .I ordered a Kestrel DAS-6 and Menzerna kit from CYC late last night. (I worked out that I would need approx £60 worth of pads and compound etc. to make full use of the MacAllister on top of what I had already paid, and came to the conclusion that as I'm the sort of person that doesn't accept less than the best I can afford, and being a bit of a snob/perfectionist when it comes to tools/equipment I wouldn't be satisfied with anything less). When the extra expenditure on pads, compund and stuff was taken into consideration the deal on the Ketrel seemed to make much more sense. Combined with the fact that I'm about to attempt a full paintwork correction on a tatty 9 year old Audi A3 (apparently hard/difficult paintwork to work with...as is her indoors who owns the Audi!!!!!!) I figured the Kestrel deal would be the better option.........

So..... I decided that the best thing I could do with the MacA rather than take it back to B&Q for a refund was too offer it for sale to anyone on the here who could maybe use it and perhaps couldn't get to B&Q, or who maybe found that being "end of line" stock that it was unavailable. It was my intention to pass it on to a lucky recipient for what I paid for it (£19.98) plus shipping costs. However, imagine my surprise to find that when I went to put an ad in the for sale section of the site that I encountered a major stumbling block............. As a newish registered site member I was expected to pay a sellers fee of a minimum of £5 just to advertise.

Strangely enough at this point I became rather pee'd off at the thought that my attempt to maybe help someone out or offer a favour was gonna cost me, and as a result I have decided (much against my better judgement and personal philposphy) that my only course of action is to return the machine to B&Q and "to hell" with anyone else....Hopefully someone other than a hobby DIY'er will get to purchase my returned sander/polisher and will benefit from a (relatively) inexpensive way of getting into machine polishing. .........There should be one available (i.e mine, returned) at B&Q North Shields tomorrow after lunchtime .........ish!

I'm sad to have to post this rather negative input as one of my first contributions to the site, and it's not gonna stop me from visiting here on a continued regular basis to benefit from all the really helpful advice and wisdom available for free to one and all, but suffice to say it has coloured my opinion of what I previously thought of as a diamond of a site in amongst all the usual rubbish available on t'interweb!

Had this situation occurred maybe late last year when the "Viper-lets all contribute and buy me a Klarke to evaluate" idea was around then I would have hopefully had a good case to make for requesting that my fee for advertising was donated to the "Viper" cause for the good of one and all, and I would have been more than happy to oblige.

However, as it stands now this is not an option, and whilst I will remain forever grateful to Viper (and indeed all other members/contributors) for the input and dedication to this forum, without which I am unlikely to have considered the idea of machine polishing/paint correction and would have without a doubt continued to wash my (now immaculate!) car with a sponge!!!!! It is a shame that another forum member cannot benefit from my fortunate position of being able to choose which DA polisher I can use.

Apologies for the long winded post, but I needed to get this off my chest!.....I'm now off to open a bottle of vino and start polishing my Meggy's (already immaculate!) bodywork with a handful of cotton buds and a bottle of T-Cut!

Al.


----------



## BMW318TI

Makita BO6040:buffer:


----------



## MattDuffy88

BMW318TI said:


> Makita BO6040:buffer:


Aye, but at £260 it's a bit expensive.


----------



## mellowfellow

Tom90 said:


> No worries Pat, I'm just uploading pictures now I'll edit them into this post when i've got them up
> 
> Undo the screws which are on the magnesium part
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remove backing plate and unscrew black screws behind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Use a screwdriver to remove this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unscrew here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> take off the parts, and put your backing plate back on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test to see how it moves so you are familar with it


Are you absolutely sure the black oily bush (rubber bit ) is not required? I have converted mine but cannot help wondering if its now safe to use with the loss of all that lubrication ?


----------



## Tom90

hmm. next time im in the garage, I'll get the machine out and put it back together to see what it does exactly


----------



## MattDuffy88

The rubber seal is for the dust extraction system so it doesn't matter if it is removed.


----------



## Tom_S4

Just in from my first experiments. I tried it on the worst panel on my Audi which had two 3inch cross marks which appeared to have been made with a brillo pad. The panel also had lots of white specks of paint that wouldn't clay off as they were somehow sunk into the paint?

I ran my mac on speed one for 30 seconds to spread my Menz 3.02 across a 1ft square on the vertical surface of the rear quarter, then held it at low speed on its own weight for 6 minutes. It wasn't going clear as I had expected it to so I ramped it up to speed 4 and put some pressure onto the machine and this seemed to work the polish better.

After a full 10 minutes the panel still visibly had polish on it. I stopped, sprayed the orange menz pad I was using with water and went back at it on speed 5 for a further 5 minutes using a little bit of pressure but the light haze never disappeared. Eventually I gave up and stopped the machine and buffed off the visible haze with a MF cloth.

*Is the 3.02 meant to break down to an invisible level and if so what was I doing wrong?*

I put three blobs on the orange pad and went back at it for another 2 mins on speed 1 and then 6 minutes of speed 4 with slightly better results (spraying the pad with water half way through the fast spin) but still had to buff off at the end.

I must say, by the setting sunlight, it reallly has reduced the appearance of my swirls and taken most of the scratches and paint specks out of the panel. I am excited about doing the entire car over the coming evening/weekends but I have a lot to learn! Thanks to Viper for all the advice so far (P.S. Can you PM me the guide finished or otherwise?)


----------



## mellowfellow

fiestech said:


> The rubber seal is for the dust extraction system so it doesn't matter if it is removed.


No it isnt, its for lubricating the backing plate as it spins, hence why its covered in grease/oil. :buffer:


----------



## MattDuffy88

mellowfellow said:


> No it isnt, its for lubricating the backing plate as it spins, hence why its covered in grease/oil. :buffer:


Erm, no. If you removed the rubber seal then the backing plate wouldn't actually be touching the machine apart from the mounting point and therefore not need any lubrication. The reason it is greased is to prevent the backing plate from wearing the seal away for the extraction system.:thumb:

If you want i'll re-assemble my Mac and demontrate.


----------



## mellowfellow

spread polish speed 2-3 for 1 minute 1-2 ft sqaure max. Then ramp up to speed 4-5 until polish breaks down and leaves no marring . ARE you using the correct size backing plate with your 150mm pad ? and ensure pad is totally flat on panel .


----------



## mellowfellow

Ok dokey, i will let you know tomorrow if it ceases... and i have one of my own..lol. Just looks wierd without the casing on it . Dunno how you got your fingers snagged as my hand is always on top of machine and i took of the handle that came with it , much easier to use now IMHO.


----------



## MattDuffy88

mellowfellow said:


> Ok dokey, i will let you know tomorrow if it ceases... and i have one of my own..lol. Just looks wierd without the casing on it . Dunno how you got your fingers snagged as my hand is always on top of machine and i took of the handle that came with it , much easier to use now IMHO.


It won't seize, I was using mine all day yesterday today and it is fine, all the magnesium stuff inc the plastic ring and rubber seal is for the dust extraction system.
I caught my fingertip when putting it down whilst it was spinning down. Still a strip of plastic and a size 6 jubilee clip will stop it happening again.


----------



## jonyboy

Well i've just got back from a trip to B&Q (Crossgates, Leeds) where i managed to get a MAC Allister random orbital sander for £19.99 :thumb:

Sorry if this question has been asked over and over but what else do i need to buy before i can use it ?

Do i need to buy one of the items below before i can attach the foam pads ?
1) Meguiars Dual Action Polisher Backing Plate
2) Sonus dual action flexplate

Also, can anyone recomend a polish and pad combo to use on a 2007/57 plate Honda Civic Type-R in Milano Red ? (New shape FN2 model)

Cheers
Jonathan


----------



## MattDuffy88

No you don't need to get any extra backing plates, the ones that come with it work fine.

As for pads and Polishes, I use the Menzerna pads (White - Compounding, Orange - Polishing and Yellow - Finishing) with either Megs #80/#83 or the Menz PO85RD 3.02 (Intensive Polish), PO203S (power finish) or PO106FA (final finish)


----------



## mellowfellow

I would order a white lake country polishing pad from motorgeek as they are excellent , also an orange light cut pad . With the right polishes those are the only pads you will need and they last much longer than the menzerna pads ( i have both sets ) .

The white mez pad is very very coarse and should only be used on very badly oxidised paint , which i doubt yours is . The golden rule is ALWAYS start with the least aggresive combination , as you may be surprised how much correction you get with that .

www.motorgeek.co.uk


----------



## Tom90

I would suggest buying several pads.... when your a new to it you will break pads quicker.. if one of yours breaks you will be stuck without it 

Both of mine broke so i'm currently waiting to get some news ones


----------



## Tuffy

*Is this ok???*

Hi all just popped to B a Q and bought a 450w macallister 150/125mm dual random orbital sander £19.99 Is this piece of equipment ok? and is anyone else using it?

Thanks in advance Mark


----------



## mellowfellow

Seek and ye shall find...... there is a WHOLE thread dedicated to macallister and other Random orbitals . And yes lots of guys especially newbies are using it before moving up to better quality machines ie Kestral or G220. or indeed eventually rotary. 
HMMMM THIS IS IN FACT THE THREAD so just go back to around page 100 and read from there. Page 164 shows how to take cover off , and dont ask about pads etc as its all here .


----------



## mellowfellow

Tom90 said:


> I would suggest buying several pads.... when your a new to it you will break pads quicker.. if one of yours breaks you will be stuck without it
> 
> Both of mine broke so i'm currently waiting to get some news ones


My point exactly LCC dont break . And yes of course if he can afford it buy 2 sets or even the whole LCC package which Motorgeek also do.
Your car is only 2 years old so i would not be putting a compound pad anywhere near it .


----------



## jonyboy

Thanks guys :thumb:

Just placed an order with motorgeek for :

1 x Motorgeek Foam Applicator
1 x New - Poorboys Ultra Mega Towel
1 x Meguiar's Quik Clay Starter Kit
1 x Wolfgang Lake Country Foam Pads (White Polishing)
1 x Wolfgang Lake Country Foam Pads (Orange Light Cutting)

I'm planning on using AG SRP with the white lake country pad + MAC Allister. Then a couple of coats of Collinite 915 by hand using the motorgeek foam applicator.

The paint is only very lightly swirled as i've always washed it from new with a sheepskin mitt and 2x buckets.

Only if that combo doesn't work will i try the orange pad.

Does that sound ok ?


----------



## mellowfellow

I am guessing ROn gave you advice on polish with a view to age of your car . So yes it all sounds good to me . Work in small 2 ft squares and spritz your pad before and during polishing to limit the dust created .


----------



## jonyboy

mellowfellow said:


> I am guessing ROn gave you advice on polish with a view to age of your car . So yes it all sounds good to me . Work in small 2 ft squares and spritz your pad before and during polishing to limit the dust created .


Actually no 

I have a litre of the stuff lying around in my garage and saw some very impressive results from it in another post so thought what the hell 

Thanks for the tip regarding the dust.
Will I be ok using tap normal water via a small spray bottle to keep the dust down ?


----------



## mellowfellow

Personally I use distilled or deinonised water, which costs a pound in any good auto store or even better if you know anyone who works in a lab or a factory could get you some . Tap water is probably ok , but eliminates any chances of water staining .


----------



## jonnywells

Ok i brought a MAC from b&q a couple weeks ago for £20 notes  and just invested in :-


2 x Menzerna 135 mm Polishing Pad - Orange 
2 x Menzerna 135 mm Finishing Pad - Yellow 
Menzerna 85RE - SMALL 

First time ive used a machine before so i didnt want to use anything with a high cut + cars im using it on are not that bad.

I have got a collection of other products as well, which of these are ok to use on the machine?

AG SRP
Meguiars #7 Show Car Glaze
Collinate 476

My normal 3 month total clean is :-

2 x bucket with grit guard + Mags hyper wash
Elite Ultra Plush Deep Pile Drying Towel + Mags quick detailer
AG SRP 
Mags #7
Collinate 476.

When i use the menz 85RE should i put SRP on after or is this pointless?


----------



## VIPER

SRP and Megs #7 are both fine to use by machine, but I'd apply the 476 by hand personally. you can apply wax and LSPs by machine, but most, including myself, prefer to leave the machine out of it for this stage.

As for SRP after the 85RE? Kind of depends on how far you're taking the correction. 

If your car's swirling is only very light, and you manage to fully remove them with the menz polish and pad combo you have, then there's little point adding an extra stage of SRP as the finish is as good as it's going to get.

But, if you're not anticipating going for full 100% correction (and with average swirling, you'd probably need something like Menz 106FA or 203S to achieve that anyway as 85RE might not have enough cut), and are just wanting to clean up the paint, deepen the gloss and sharpen the reflections, then I suppose SRP could fill over any light remaining swirls to get you closer to at least a 100% finish in pure looks, even it's not genuine 100% correction.

So, depends on what the car's swirls are like and how much you can correct with your current polish/pad set up as to if SRP is a worthwhile following stage or not.


----------



## PulseTurbo

What is this polisher everyone is talking about? I want one!

What else will I need to go with it? Total newbie here, so if anyone can help, that'd be great. Need to know exactly what to get, and where to get it from.


----------



## bidderman1969

seems like a massive roundabout with this thread, always getting the same question over and over again, maybe a sticky with a summed up version PV?


----------



## Stu-pot

Got a Mac today for a ridiculous £20 with 15% off!

Trouble is I'm not sure how to use it? ie how much pressure to apply, whether to spread the polish on setting 1 then ramp up to a higher speed, what sort of rotation to look for on the pad etc etc

Can anyone help?


----------



## VIPER

bidderman1969 said:


> seems like a massive roundabout with this thread, always getting the same question over and over again, maybe a sticky with a summed up version Viper?


Hmmm...good idea, mate :thumb: I'll have to sort something out based on the PM guide I've been sending out.


----------



## mellowfellow

I totally agree , it seems to me to many people "cant be bothered" using the search facility . And just keep asking the same questions . IMHO it just clogs up the whole forum . I will say again , when i joined i read for 20-30 hours before asking any questions i could not find ********** answers for.


----------



## gttjames

Just come across this old thread, was just about to get either the g220 or das-6, but for 20 this has got to be worth a shot 1st!

Theres a few that are on this thread, but alot are old links... i have access to ebay, and internet shops etc, and theres a b&q near me.

Which one the out of these 'cheaper' random orbital polishers is the one to get then?

thanks!


----------



## Faythur

I'd say the B&Q MacAllister.

The original orange Silverline which started the thread has been discontinued and the blue replacement model seems to have some problems with some folks - mainly overgreased bearings.

Nobody [including myself] seems to have any problems with the Mac.

The other Clarke model can also be recommended but it will be more than twice the price of the Mac - provided you can still find stock [of the Mac] in B&Q as they also were being discontinued AFAIK.

Have a look at the pics on page 166 to remove the magnesium housing. And on page 164 you will find pics on how to 'protect' the exposed lugs, which I think is another worthwhile 'upgrade'


----------



## gttjames

Only had to chance to pop into ridgoens, they had one of these in

http://www.toolbox.co.uk/einhell-bes125e-random-3412-81760

Will this do the job?


----------



## Faythur

Sorry, I really couldn't say - Viper's the expert here.

It really would depend on the spec and there's none listed on that link. It needs variable speed control and then the range of oscilations per minute need to be within certain parameters. That and the amount of offset - too low and it won't have any decent 'cut' effect.

If you can find out the info and refer back to way earlier in the thread, you should find some figures there for comparison.

You really should seek out the Mac IMHO. Apart from the price, it has a 2 year warranty and comes with two backing plates as standard [which are unique, meaning that you couldn't use 'normal' replacements]

Remember too, that these cheap random orbit machines are not designed for car polishing - they are primarily _sanders_.


----------



## lingus

Can the Mac's still be bought? i've been to all B&Q's in Sheff and i can't find a single one..


----------



## mellowfellow

Does not look like it mate , i searched Diy.com for macallister and it did not appear on the list . You could however do a google search for it and i am sure somewhere else will sell it . If not you may just have to stretch budget to a Kestrel das.


----------



## lingus

My thoughts too, thanks


----------



## Paintguy

lingus said:


> Can the Mac's still be bought? i've been to all B&Q's in Sheff and i can't find a single one..


I was in the Queens Road superstore this weekend, and whilst they still had one on the display, there were none on the shelves.

Offer them a tenner for the ex-display one perhaps?


----------



## bzee17

Try and get to the [email protected] in Darnall. Just got mine, and there were 4 more left.


----------



## MartinAston

*Cleaning pads*

I have just used my Silverline OS fitted with an orange 135mm Menzerna pad for the first time and am wondering whether the remains of the polish needs to be removed from the pad before putting it away. I have searched this thread for cleaning advice without success, so any advice would be gratefully accepted.


----------



## mellowfellow

yes, clean in sink with warm water and some fairy liquid, let it dry naturally. you could also machine wash at 30 degrees do not use fabric conditioner and that goes for your microfibres as well. You should be cleaning your pad with a toothbrush or similar after polishing one complete panel.


----------



## Geetarman

Not sure if it'll do the same as the MAC but this seems to be the replacement on the B&Q site:

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?isSearch=true&fh_search=0000005179565&x=19&y=13

I have a MAC not this so no guarantee it'll do the job.


----------



## mellowfellow

It looks heavy to me , bear in mind that most of the car requires perpindicular polishing, eg doors, sills and you will have to hold and support the weight of the machine.


----------



## Geetarman

mellowfellow said:


> It looks heavy to me , bear in mind that most of the car requires perpindicular polishing, eg doors, sills and you will have to hold and support the weight of the machine.


Doesn't look all that different to my MAC, not to say it isn't heavier it may well be, if anything it looks like it might be lighter, looks more plasticy (is that a word?)

I haven't had any problems with using the MAC, but then I have nothing to compare it against as only ever used the MAC.

MAC


----------



## mellowfellow

Yeah , i use the MAC too and its fine ,especially with the titanium ring removed. See page 164 for details .


----------



## Fraser

I'm new to detailing and didn't intend to get a machine polisher straight away, however after reading this thread couldn't resist going down to b&q for a Mac, got the last one aswell I think.
I've ordered the menz orange and yellow pads along with the PO203S power finish polish. I've got a brand new car arriving next monday so I dont know if the menz will be needed straight away? but a few of the family cars could definately do with de-swirling!


----------



## Faythur

mellowfellow said:


> Does not look like it mate , i searched Diy.com for macallister and it did not appear on the list . *You could however do a google search for it and i am sure somewhere else will sell it *. If not you may just have to stretch budget to a Kestrel das.


I thought that MacAllister was a B&Q own brand? Doubt you'll find it elsewhere, that being the case.

They haven't been on the website for some time [probably because it is discontinued], but some stores still have residual clearance stock as already stated by some.

That Performance Power model isn't a replacement for the Mac as it was always available separately, though I do recall that some mentioned it didn't seem to have as good a build quality as the Mac .....does the same job though AFAIK


----------



## 0asis2007

Faythur said:


> I thought that MacAllister was a B&Q own brand? Doubt you'll find it elsewhere, that being the case.
> 
> They haven't been on the website for some time [probably because it is discontinued], but some stores still have residual clearance stock as already stated by some.
> 
> That Performance Power model isn't a replacement for the Mac as it was always available separately, though I do recall that some mentioned it didn't seem to have as good a build quality as the Mac .....does the same job though AFAIK


+1 to all of the above!

Spot on, Faythur! I've had both the PP and the MAC, and agree that the MAC is definitely more robust - if you can still get your hands on one.... you won't find either model elsewhere as they're both B&Q own-brands.


----------



## Bigge

Just had a nip out to S****horpe B&Q...result!


----------



## Bigge

Rooofl at the swear filter...that should read Scun thorpe


----------



## Tom90

i've found the mac works better with 150mm pads as apposed to smaller ones...

It may that i switched from 125 menzerna pads to 150 lake countrys, i did notice that the machine was getting a little bogged down but not too much


----------



## mellowfellow

Any one else noticed that the lake country white pad seems to add swirls of its own if it dries out a tiny bit , especially at the outermost edge, i thought it was just my technique but i have noticed it on 3 different cars now . Not sure how to overcome it other than keep pad well spritzed at edges at all times . I have no such problems using the mez 135mm pads.


----------



## VIPER

Bigge said:


> Rooofl at the swear filter...that should read Scun thorpe


:lol::lol: Brilliant! :lol:


----------



## Tom90

i used the 150 white pad earlier with lime prime, there was no swirl adding as far as i could see...

although I don't have any bright bright lights to check


----------



## nc35

*Just been to B&Q*

They have two orbital sanders (own range) in stock

The cheap own brand one at £20 in a cardboard box

Then a more expensive MAC brand one at £35 with an ABS case etc

What does anyone think?

May go and get the Mac one just for home use on our two cars.

Cheers

Lee

p.s. First post please go easy on me


----------



## VIPER

Welcome to the site, firstly :thumb:

I'd check the price on that Mac, as they were getting picked up for about £20 not so long ago. I've never heard of them being as much as £35 before?

It is quite a popular machine on here though and capable of producing some good results so probably the better of the 2 to go for, but not knowing what the other one's specs are, it's hard to say.


----------



## mellowfellow

I agree, loads of guys on here have used the Mac with pretty good results with menzerna pads and polishes. Do not expect miracles though on hard paints such as VAG and BMW .
Welcome to the forum, if you read from about page 100 on this thread there is loads of advice about the MAC.

Good place to start- http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=83874&page=125


----------



## nc35

Thanks you for the welcome Viper

Just had a look on the DIY.COM page and only the Performance Power one at £20 is listed. Seems to do everything the MAC one does except a soft start and an anti-vibration mechanism (plus the carry case). 

The Mac one is not listed online yet. The assistant at B&Q did say the Mac ones have only just come in. And are a great machine - well he would!!!

Bit weird this £20 is a bargain, and spending £15 more for a case etc seems expensive. But still a lot cheaper than the DAS6. 

Oh to be raised as a tight Yorkshireman :lol:

Hopefully someone will be along soon who has seen both products


----------



## Bigge

I bought the mac last week mate, i think your assistant has his wires crossed as the mac range is being phased OUT not in at B&Q. They should be reduced too  i got mine for 20 quid and it was the last one in the shop. You will notice the difference as soon as its switched on btw. The mac is very quiet and just seems, sturdy... The performance range....not so much, but still a cracking buy at £20. Get the assistant to plug one in for you.


----------



## nc35

Well not too sure they are being discontinued as there is a promotion for the new lines, this being one of them. 

Just been looking again at the posts. I was going to use it on my MK5 golf. Need to improve cat scratched. Looks like VAG is classed as German hard paint. So not sure that I will get the results I am after, think a few more searches are in order and perhaps one or two more questions. 

Hope someone pop into B&Q today. Feels like I am going mad


----------



## steve_c

Just found this thread as I'm considering an orbital polisher. I've just rang my local B&Q enquiring about the Mac machine and they have no stock but say they are having supplier problems. Nothing about it being discontinued. Another store said they are expecting 6 next week! Go figure. I'll see what happens.


----------



## YOG

Just bought one 2.30pm today at B&Q, Crawley £19.98. Had one more left, case open, but all the bits were there.


----------



## spanerman

i been to b and q today and ive got the new shape mac DA it looks good but does anyone know if the same mods can be done on the new model?

Sam.


----------



## Maxx?

Sorry to be a pain, been looking through the thread and im confused on what im actually after from B&Q, could any one give me the details of the polisher please.


----------



## Supreme Shine

Does anyone have the product code for this product from their receipt by any chance? That way I can phone up my local branches and they can check for stock easily on their computer systems.

Many thanks.


----------



## nc35

Bit sad in local B&Q now
just picked up a MAC "COD450MROS" the O's could be Zeros. 
May be miss priced as the same item as the one at the superstore but £10 cheaper. 
Hope I am getting the right one.


----------



## Bigge

Looks like that when you buy it, but within 5 minutes mine had no silver bits and wieghed a bit less 

On the discontinuation of the current macs, both doncaster and scun thorpe B&Q have box of "old" mac stock. These are a selection of mac products (the blue and yellow ones) all reduced. Jigsaws, routers, grinders and so on. None left on display, or on the shelves. Maybe they are just clearing way for a "new" line up from mac. I certainly hope so, as they are surprisingly high standard products for the price.


----------



## nc35

Well it did go through the till at £19.99 in the end!!!!

I have phoned the B&Q depot (the big one in Middleton Ring Road Leeds) who have confirmed that this model is now £34.99 and is the brand new one, didn't know of a £19.99 model???

Don't know if this helps anyone


----------



## nc35

swompdonkey said:


> You mean you haven't stated doing this yet.. I thought all Detailing World members had to do this as part of signing up to the forum, was in the T's & C's.. We may need and admin to check this..


Told the wife I could do her car too lol


----------



## nc35

*OK - Bog eyed and confused after 172 pages*

I must be mad...

13:15 and just finished all 172 pages. Started at 9:05 lol

OK - really confused now. Any help pls with the Mac Sander

The original posts said to use the larger plate as there is less chance of catching the paint work with the sander. But Mark (Viper) is recommending the smaller Menzerna 135 mm pads. Since Mark doesn't have a Mac he can't recommend a specific larger pad. OMG

So I think, the Meguiars or Lake Country are the ones to go for? Help.

Sorry to be such a :newbie:

Any help really welcome.


----------



## bidderman1969

read it again? lol

only j/k


----------



## VIPER

Yes, with any of these machines using a 125mm backing plate my recommendation is for the Menz pads, as they tend to struggle with larger pads. Other purpose built detailing machines like the G220, DAS-6 etc. can be happily used with larger pads than the 135mm Menz ones on a 125mm backing plate as they have the torque and the counterweight set up to cope.

For these 'alternative' machines with the larger 150mm backing plate (MAC and Clarke), then yes the Lake Country or Meguiars range would be good choices.


----------



## Faythur

I've just had a look at mine [Mac]

Ideal pad size is 135mm - on the 125mm backing plate - you'll want a little overlap for 'protection' anyway.

Though I've also used Lake Country 6" pads on the same plate with a liitle care. The trouble with a larger pad is the probability of more 'boggiing down' as the machine will struggle to keep the rotations up, owing to higher friction levels.

Check out pages 163 and 164 for pictures with the magnesium housing removed.

EDIT

Beaten to it!


----------



## mellowfellow

I agree, I use the smaller backing plate with menz pads ( orange and yellow) and i use the larger plate with lake country polishing and buffing pads ( white and black ) . Hope that helps . I find no matter what pad you are using there is no need to ever go above speed setting 5.


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## nc35

Thank you both :thumb::thumb: (Oops didn't mean both - should have said all of you)

Going to get the Magnesium off the sander (per post on pg124) add the smaller plate and get some of the pads ordered. 2 of each for starters.

Also going to PM Viper regarding his samples. See what he recommends for the cat scratches etc.

But thank you again for the quick replies


----------



## VIPER

What samples?  I don't do any samples lol! Although you're not the first person to ask this, but so I can ammend anything, can you tell me where on the site you've read I do samples please?


----------



## nc35

OK so this is my 10th post 

So can't do any PM yet. Sorry Mark.

Would like to correct (well make it look better) the bonnet on my new (2005) Golf. As possibly the wife's Peugeot 207.

The marks on the bonnet of the Golf are cat scratched. Looks like muck on the pads on the paws. Rather than the claws.

I have tried to take pictures, the diagonal line is the overhead telephone wire not a scratch btw.



















The scratch on here is the dull bit not the stone chips/dents









My query is the "hardness" of the VAG paint & the combination PAD/Polish.

I think I need the white pad but only have the confidence to use an Orange Pad and the Duragloss PC No.2 652

Next is the Pug, which has exactly the same type of scratches. I imagine this paintwork is not as good as the VAG?

What do you think?

I did want to get the samples from Viper as he has been so helpful in this forum. I thought this may be a way of repaying his kindness.


----------



## nc35

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=86636

just seen the post - thought you were the link at the top of this post


----------



## spanerman

Heres the ''New'' Mac sander  seems very well built 

Im hoping to use a finishing pad and some lime prime to correct some minor swirls on my KA








































]

Sam.


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## VIPER

Looks very much like the old orange silverline one now inside.

Also looks like they've done away with the dual 150 / 125mm backing plates then and just gone with the 125?

What are these retailing for now then and do they still come with the hard case?


----------



## spanerman

Yep, only 125  i think the silverline didnt have the ''soft start'' and ''Vibration Reduction System'' AKA rubber inside :lol:

It set me back £35 at b and q and comes with a very nice hard case


----------



## VIPER

No the Silverline didn't have a soft start. Nice feature that at this end of the market :thumb: In fact I'm just trying to remember if my Clarke has that? I think it does, but it's that long since I've used it, I honestly couldn't say for sure 

Didn't have any vibration damper either, no matter how basic lol! Mind you, it wasn't bad in that repect and I used that machine for a full day sometimes with no ill after effects.


----------



## spanerman

The Mac is very smooth, cant wait to get my student loan through and blow it on some pads and polishes, would you recommend a decent combo for light swirls on a mk4 golf and a new KA


Sam.


----------



## VIPER

Menzerna Orange (polishing) and yellow (finishing) would be my choice of pads as the 135mm diameter is the optimum size for performance on these machines. Together with either Menzerna 203S if you could only go for one polish, or for a twin polish set up, then Menz PO85RD 3.02 Power Finish coupled with PO85RE (or RD) Final Finish :thumb:


----------



## spanerman

Thanks mr Viper :thumb:




:buffer:


----------



## mellowfellow

Where is the speed control setting on the "new " one ? deffo stick with 5 inch pads , or 51/2 max hex logic from chemicalguys , anything larger eg, lakecountry seem to bog down and sometimes can inflict their own swirls !.


----------



## nc35

On the front (opposite the handle)


----------



## lonterra

That new Mac look _really_ nice.

And it seems to solve the issue we all had with the 'old' one of that massive magnesium skirt getting in the way for tight corners and needing to be take off.

Looks like I might be looking for a buyer for my old one and getting one of the new ones instead....


----------



## spanerman

right, i decided to try a megs 7'' pad on my new mac!

It seems to cope just fine!!


----------



## Supreme Shine

Finally I managed to get hold of a discontinued mac! Yippee!!!

Just a bit of info for anyone that is after one that the ean code for this product is 0000005102204

The way I managed to get my hands on the last one I the store was by contacting B&Q customer services via their online from system asking which of my local stroes might be showing stock and two days later was told that ny nearest store had one even though the store themselves were adamant they didn't and hadn't seen one in a long time.

Phone up your local store and ask them to do a stock check on the above ean code or pop down there like a did and you may well find that one "not seen for a very long time" mac sittting their on the discontinued shelves!

Good luck to those of you still in search for one of these


----------



## Danno1975

*Silverline not spinning wery well.*

Thought I'd give my garages (ex) Glossy laminate work top a polish this afternoon and also test out my new swirl X :thumb:.

Started out on the Silverline working the product in slowly on speed 1 on a Menzerna finishing pad, but as soon as I sped it up the pad kept sticking even though it was well loaded up with product.

I've only used the silver line on 1 car before and don't recall it getting "sticky" then.

It's like its got no torque, off load it spins up really fast, but even under its own weight it struggled on a finishing pad and the swirl X, I also tried it with PO85RD final finish and even as an experiment with Poorboys BH glaze and it still struggled.

Could this be just because its a really knackard surface and not really what the pad is for?, or might it be an issue with the machine? I also found if I press my hand on it and then start it up it ossilates but you can easily stop it spinning.

Any advice from those who've had more experience with the Silverline and its brothers???.

Hoping to carry out 2 details with it soon on our cars as the wifes just "remembered":speechles that after a summer of having to abandon half completed details to the elements that she has a machine barn on her golf course with space for 4 tractors, power and water, hooray!!


----------



## VIPER

It might be that it was quote "well loaded up with product" that's not helping? Too much polish on the pad surface will have it's own adverse effect and a 'stickiness / suction' of it's own.

You should be able to hold the pad prior to switching on, and keep it from starting to spin, but it should require a fair bit of pressure to do so and it should feel like it's really trying to break free from your grip and start rotating.

Have you done the usual removal of the rubber skirt above the backing plate and checked for any over greasing of the main bearing from the factory?

Just as a guideline, although I don't use mine anymore, the last time I did was on a mate's caravan and I was able to lean all my weight on the vertical panels and really press on without it stopping (that's not ideal practice btw. but it was only a caravan and I was trying to polish out some particularly stubborn marks - don't use that much pressure on a car ). So, assuming it's functioning properly, it can withstand proper pressure for polishing quite easily.


----------



## Danno1975

Viper said:


> It might be that it was quote "well loaded up with product" that's not helping? Too much polish on the pad surface will have it's own adverse effect and a 'stickiness / suction' of it's own.
> 
> You should be able to hold the pad prior to switching on, and keep it from starting to spin, but it should require a fair bit of pressure to do so and it should feel like it's really trying to break free from your grip and start rotating.
> 
> Have you done the usual removal of the rubber skirt above the backing plate and checked for any over greasing of the main bearing from the factory?
> 
> Just as a guideline, although I don't use mine anymore, the last time I did was on a mate's caravan and I was able to lean all my weight on the vertical panels and really press on without it stopping (that's not ideal practice btw. but it was only a caravan and I was trying to polish out some particularly stubborn marks - don't use that much pressure on a car ). So, assuming it's functioning properly, it can withstand proper pressure for polishing quite easily.


Cheers, I actually added more product to try and stop the stickiness (whoops) so whilst it probably made it worse it was already a bit lamo.

Did start trawling the thread for some top tips but have to admit to giving up :wall: so thanks for the heads up, I'll take a look now, btw what do I do, wipe it out and re assemble?.

Thanks.


----------



## VIPER

I'm assuming so yes  :lol: Mine never needed it and so I've not seen one that's been overgreased, but I know some people's were. I'd guess it will be pretty obvious when you take the backing plate off it's caked in the stuff. Did you remove the rubber dust skirt as that can be contacting the top of the backing plate and obviously hampering it's rotation.


----------



## Danno1975

Ah thats probably more the issue.

Cheers


----------



## Danno1975

All seemed fine thb, but I dabbed a bit of white goo I had to hand srp and dabbed it on the retaining screw and hey presto, it was fouling the inside of the backing plate, tbh I'm not sure that it was do much harm but sorted now.

I'm thinking it was more to do with the surface, been reading about "sticky" paint causing issues, so some aged and scratched to hell B&Q lamimate work top must be even worse  (hopes!!)


----------



## Shuck

Just reading back a few pages, and on pg 173 I noticed that the 'new' style MacAllister already comes with a velcro plate. Will I still need to take this off and put in an aftermarket backing plate like *this one* or can I just leave it on and stick the pads directly to it?


----------



## spanerman

^just stick to the pad that comes on the mac


----------



## Shuck

Excellent, thats just saved me a bit more money 

Cheers Spanerman :thumb:


----------



## Webmonkeyuk

right guys im looking for my first venture into machine polishing and have found this post, so i was just wondering do these cheap polishers work as a first step into the machine world?

i have been looking at these 2 and which do you think would be the best

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Pow...+Random+Orbital+Sander+230v/d40/sd2796/p96383

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?isSearch=true&fh_search=0000005179565&x=19&y=13

how do you go about putting the pads on these things and what would be the best option of pads for starting up?


----------



## anewman

Webmonkeyuk said:


> i have been looking at these 2 and which do you think would be the best
> 
> http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Pow...+Random+Orbital+Sander+230v/d40/sd2796/p96383
> 
> http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?isSearch=true&fh_search=0000005179565&x=19&y=13
> 
> how do you go about putting the pads on these things and what would be the best option of pads for starting up?


The first is a little underpowered at 300 watts. The second may be OK with 400 watts. Pads fit with a velcro hook and loop system. Pads depends on backing pad size. If this is 125mm most recommend menzerna 135mm orange and yellow pads.

Edit: I believe the MacAllister one referred to below by Viper is http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.j...refview=search&ts=1255715617826&isSearch=true


----------



## VIPER

Rule the first one out straight away as it's underpowered as said above, doesn't appear to have a variable speed and the design looks more like a 'palm' sander, and you need proper handles (ideally 2), not be holding, steering and maintaining downward pressure from so high up on the machine.

The second one seems better, but tbh. the revised MaxAllister that has been featured earlier on, looks to be much more suitable machine. Upon initial inspection of the pics, the counter weight looks to be larger than other simlarly specced machines and so should, in theory, reduce any bogging down issues and maintain spin speed under load.


----------



## egraphixstudios

im planning on using some Meguiars #85 polish with the new MacAllister polisher. 

Can some recommend some polishing pads that will work with the MAC polisher out of the box?


----------



## mellowfellow

#1725


----------



## Webmonkeyuk

just wondering if this is an orbital polisher and is it anygood?

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Cle...+180mm+Sander+Polisher+230v/d50/sd3150/p35104

also what is a good price for a Kestrel DAS-6 and what selection of pads would be the best for a newbie, its a bit mind boggling with all the choice


----------



## VIPER

No, that's a rotary :thumb:

Look at paying about £70-80 ish for a DAS-6.


----------



## [email protected]

Webmonkeyuk said:


> just wondering if this is an orbital polisher and is it anygood?
> 
> http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Cle...+180mm+Sander+Polisher+230v/d50/sd3150/p35104
> 
> also what is a good price for a Kestrel DAS-6 and what selection of pads would be the best for a newbie, its a bit mind boggling with all the choice


Good price @ £40 they sell from about £64 on the bay, but i had read the LCD speed control is a weak point of this machine, a jog dial give better speed control 1/4 1/2 3/4 of a speed point plus the actual buttons and LCD readout have been reported as weak as well.


----------



## Webmonkeyuk

Viper said:


> No, that's a rotary :thumb:
> 
> Look at paying about £70-80 ish for a DAS-6.


rotary's are harder to use right?


----------



## VIPER

Webmonkeyuk said:


> rotary's are harder to use right?


General rule of thumb yes, but there will naturally be people who take to a rotary better than a DA.


----------



## KEVLO

*Da*

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.j...refview=search&ts=1255715617826&isSearch=true

Is this definately a DA not a rotary?


----------



## Paintguy

KEVLO said:


> http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.j...refview=search&ts=1255715617826&isSearch=true
> 
> Is this definately a DA not a rotary?


Technically it's a random orbit sander, but yes, it's the kind of thing that's referred to around here as a DA. Definitely not a rotary


----------



## VIPER

KEVLO said:


> http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.j...refview=search&ts=1255715617826&isSearch=true
> 
> Is this definately a DA not a rotary?


Yes, it has an random orbiting, non direct drive action and so in that respect it's what's referred to as a DA, although as said above, technically it's a sander. But then so was the Porter Cable and the likes of the G220 and Kestrel DAS-6 only evolved from that - they all share the same way of working


----------



## Paintguy

Viper said:


> But then so was the Porter Cable and the likes of the G220 and Kestrel DAS-6 only evolved from that - they all share the same way of working


All of which are really random orbit machines - not true DA's 

Yes I know I'm on a one-man semantic quest, but the term DA was originally introduced to describe machines with a locking counterweight mechanism, that enabled them to perform both random orbital and rotary actions. However the years/decades have blurred the lines between the two, and most people call a simple RO machine a DA


----------



## VIPER

^^^ Yeah, I know


----------



## Paintguy

I guessed you would, but it might help those that are new to the subject (or more likely add to the confusion, lol)


----------



## KEVLO

thanks for clearing it up guys.


so as a first step into the machine polishing world its a good choice? until i can afford a g220?


----------



## VIPER

KEVLO said:


> thanks for clearing it up guys.
> 
> so as a first step into the machine polishing world its a good choice? until i can afford a g220?


Well I think so yes, as there's a bit of difference between £25-30 and £120+ or however much a G220 is these days. You can master the techniques and practice with the polishes before making a commitment to spend that kind of money. Plus you can always sell the 'practice' machine on here :thumb:

With the more expensive 'alternative' machines, like the one I have (Clarke CROS-2; _as seen below with a Menzerna 'Orange' polishing pad attached_), they are now priced too close to a Kestrel DAS-6 to make them a wise buy these days and if you were spending £60 you might as well spend £20 more and get a Kestrel. But when there's about a hundred quid difference then yes I think they're a worthy learning tool, and you can get some really great results that you'd struggle to get or never get by hand.



















(* Note, this machine doesn't come with that ^^ much cable; it's only about 6/7 ft out of the box, but I replaced the lead on mine with a 25ft one )


----------



## mark_mcd

*Menzerna Pads Issue*

Hi,

I had my first go with my MacAllister sander and Menzerna pads. I used the orange pad with some Autoglym SRP. Put the polish on with the machine on slowest setting for a couple of passes then put the speed up to around speed 5 or 6 to work in. I then used a lint free cloth to buff it off.

Bonnet went well and so did the first of the front wings. However I only got half way through the second wing and the pad literally came off at the backing (with the velcro still on the machine)?! Why has this happened?

Initial results look good to me but maybe I have been doing something very wrong? No damage to paint etc.

Thanks.


----------



## big ben

i brought a new mac from B&Q a while back, its been brilliant... :buffer:

i use chemical guys 6.5" hex pads, they are also a good bit of kit. i also start on speed 2, then up to speed 5/6, never had a problem with the pad coming off???

i would recommend the mac and chemical guys pads to anyone who is new to machine polishing. Cheap and the correction from one pass with the light cut white pad and menz polish was amazing :thumb:


----------



## VIPER

mark_mcd said:


> Hi,
> 
> I had my first go with my MacAllister sander and Menzerna pads. I used the orange pad with some Autoglym SRP. Put the polish on with the machine on slowest setting for a couple of passes then put the speed up to around speed 5 or 6 to work in. I then used a lint free cloth to buff it off.
> 
> Bonnet went well and so did the first of the front wings. However I only got half way through the second wing and the pad literally came off at the backing (with the velcro still on the machine)?! Why has this happened?
> 
> Initial results look good to me but maybe I have been doing something very wrong? No damage to paint etc.
> 
> Thanks.


With the vibration factor being so much higher with random orbit machines than it is for a rotary (can't be helped, it's just the way they work), there can be a tendancy for the cell structure of the foam to breakdown due to these high freqency vibrations. They do tend to fail at their weakest point, which is just below the glue bond to the felt part, but not part way through the initial use. I've had pads gradually come apart from the felt over the course of a few uses. They usually start to split at the edge and work their way towards the centre, and there obviously comes a point where it's going to come away totally, but I've never had one do it on the first go. Might be worth speaking to the place you bought it as it could be a bad batch perhaps?


----------



## mark_mcd

big ben said:


> i brought a new mac from B&Q a while back, its been brilliant... :buffer:
> 
> i use chemical guys 6.5" hex pads, they are also a good bit of kit. i also start on speed 2, then up to speed 5/6, never had a problem with the pad coming off???
> 
> i would recommend the mac and chemical guys pads to anyone who is new to machine polishing. Cheap and the correction from one pass with the light cut white pad and menz polish was amazing :thumb:


Thanks for the replys.

Ben, that's exactly the speed technique I was using... Loved the machine otherwise - really easy to hold and operate.

Viper - pad has literally ripped clean off the rear of the velcro (leaving velcro and thin layer of pad left on the machine!). Should I be soaking the pads or anything before their initial use? I literally got the bonnet and one wing done as said previous. Have ordered 2 of the same pad again - if it's being suggested that it might be a faulty pad I might give them a phone?

How much vibration should be occuring here - there did seem to be quite a bit especially once the speed was ramped up. Is there any way to cut it down at all?

Thanks again.


----------



## VIPER

You _can_ pre-wash them before the intial use and this will soften them up a little, but it's by no means a necessary step and I don't think it would aid in preventing the foam shearing off the felt.

The vibrations I talked about that adversely affect the pad's cell structure over time are very high frequency and not really something that will cause you discomfort in the same way that say using a hammer drill for hours on end would. I've used a DA/Random Orbit machine for almost a full day sometimes and not had any bad reactions in my hands. I dare say that if you were using one every day it might be different, and also I used to work in the building trade and so exposure to heavy industrial power tools might have built me some immunity to the comparatively very light vibrations caused by a machine polisher, I don't know?

As for how much vibration should you be experiencing in use? Hard to say really, but a lot of it should be 'damped' out by the pressure you're applying against the panel. If you're barely pressing down then the pad will spin faster, vibrate more and transfer more vibrations through the body of the machine and into your hands, not to mention not polishing properly. You should apply sufficient pressure to maintain the pad rotation speed at about 1-2 revolutions per second (more easily determined by marking the plate with a black line, as I think you can see on my 2nd picture on the previous page). Broadly speaking this should be approximately the correct pressure to polish with and as said, damp out some of the vibration.


----------



## mark_mcd

Update: It's still eating pads 

To me it seems that the base of the unit (where the pad velcros to) is cutting into the pad. By that I mean if you stick the pad to the unit, the slight overlap of the unit base past the velcro backing of the pad is digging into the foam. This cut is then working deeper into the pad throughout use, and seems to travel slowly under the velcro backing too. Since the pad and machine should be moving at the same rate however (they are stuck to each other), I cannot understand why this is happening i.e. where the 'cut' is coming from.

I did the roof today, and it's looking great, but the pad is ruined already! Maybe a slightly bigger pad with larger velcro attachment might help matters?
:wall:


----------



## mark_mcd

Here are some images of the pads http://img267.imageshack.us/g/p1010088t.jpg/

Any help appreciated


----------



## maersk

That is a menz pad if i'm not mistaken and mine do that too but only after doing a Transit van from pink to gloss red...........................................over three days!


----------



## Stevolution

Viper said:


> Well I think so yes, as there's a bit of difference between £25-30 and £120+ or however much a G220 is these days. You can master the techniques and practice with the polishes before making a commitment to spend that kind of money. Plus you can always sell the 'practice' machine on here :thumb:
> 
> With the more expensive 'alternative' machines, like the one I have (Clarke CROS-2; _as seen below with a Menzerna 'Orange' polishing pad attached_), they are now priced too close to a Kestrel DAS-6 to make them a wise buy these days and if you were spending £60 you might as well spend £20 more and get a Kestrel. But when there's about a hundred quid difference then yes I think they're a worthy learning tool, and you can get some really great results that you'd struggle to get or never get by hand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (* Note, this machine doesn't come with that ^^ much cable; it's only about 6/7 ft out of the box, but I replaced the lead on mine with a 25ft one )


Just a quick one regarding this clarke sander, the ol' man has one of these (only used once so think its worth a borrow  )
What pads would you say work best on this sander and what speeds do you use. Im guessing this is a max 2-3 clicks on the speed control as well as trigger control going off the instructions.
Im looking at some light to medium swirl removal on a silver fabia possibly caused by jet wash/auto car wash brushes. Also whats a good compound/swirl remover to use with this machine (im a complete novice machine wise so dont want anything over the top.)
Thanks


----------



## VIPER

Ideally you need to remove the oiled felt & plastic ring from behind the backing plate (I did a pictorial guide to this on here somewhere, but it's only a case of 4 screws to remove the backing plate and this ring can be put back afterwards).

The only issue with you is, that you're borrowing it, and I'm assuming your old fella wants it back unmolested? Now my one you see there ^^ has its backing plate cut down to 130mm because as standard it's 150mm and therefore negates the use of the smaller diameter pads that I'd normally suggest for these 'alternative' machine (which normally have a 125mm backing plate), and that's the orange and yellow Menzerna (orange seen in the pic).

Leaving it at the 150mm size, you're up into the 165mm + sized pads and tbh. it can struggle with these to maintain spin speed under load; not down to power (it's 750w) but more with the counterweight arrangement. 

So unless you can adapt it as I've done with mine, it's probably not worth you even borrowing it, mate - sorry.

If you can 'butcher it' for your own needs then go with the 2 pads I've suggested (or the Gloss Evolution ones from Polished Bliss at their 145mm size would be a good alternative). And with this, for ease of use either go for Menzerna 203S if you only want to buy one polish, or for a bigger range of correction ability go for the PO85RD 3.02 Power Finish (formally 'Intensive Polish'), and PO85RE Final Finish as a 'twin' polish set up.


----------



## Stevolution

Well seeing as its only been used once, its going to be long term borrow and if worst comes to it, i can get him another one but he likes his detail sander better and uses that every so often for his lil DIY jobs, so modding it wont be a prob 

So in a nutshell, mod down the backing plate to 130mm for use with 125mm pads and use the mezerna pads.
Would the S203 be good enuff to erase most the swirl with this machine? I intend to use my dodo SN as a final finishing / protective coat.


----------



## VIPER

Cut down the backing plate right up to the hard plastic top part (takes it to just under 130mm. Menz pads are 135mm btw. not 125mm, and the Gloss It Evo ones are 145mm). It's only super density 'foam' so cuts with a long sharp craft knife. Pads should always be bigger than the backing plate, even it's only just.

You can order another full size 150mm backing plate direct from Clarke if your Dad wants one. I priced them up and posted on this thread way back with the info; I think they were about 5 or 6 quid something like that. I keep meaning to get one to cut down really small so I can use spot pads.

Impossible to say 'blind' if 203S will do the job, but on the orange pad it will have reasonable swirl removal ability, but a twin set up of the 2 I mentioned before would give you a wider scope for what you can achieve.


----------



## dim

nice looking alternatives


----------



## naeemm

hi guys. im new to machine polishing but have been referred to Viper fby some fellow members on zroadster.

i need a good polisher....ive heard random orbital are the safest and so have been trying to find one priced between £30- £60....ive seen the silverline ones you guys have mentioned on here but i think they are rotary ones.

can someone please just direct me to the right 
- polisher
- pads 
- polish

so i can put them all in a basket and pay for them.

Your help would be much appreciated

cheers


----------



## naeemm

i was thinking of getting this Mac as mentioned in the posts here
http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=10637570&fh_view_size=10&fh_start_index=20&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB&fh_search=macallister&fh_eds=%C3%9F&fh_refview=search&t

can someone please tell direct me to the pads i would need to use SRP. i just have light swirls on my Z3. being a BMW it has hard paint so just need the right stuff to get the job done

thanks again


----------



## VIPER

naeemm said:


> i was thinking of getting this Mac as mentioned in the posts here
> http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=10637570&fh_view_size=10&fh_start_index=20&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB&fh_search=macallister&fh_eds=%C3%9F&fh_refview=search&t
> 
> can someone please tell direct me to the pads i would need to use SRP. i just have light swirls on my Z3. being a BMW it has hard paint so just need the right stuff to get the job done
> 
> thanks again


Good choice of machine :thumb: And with that I would recommend either Menzerna 135mm pads (the orange for polishing - which I think you'd need on your car's paint rather than the softer yellow finishing one). The other alternative pads would be the Gloss It Evolution pads which are slightly larger at 145mm (probably the yellow light cut for you from that range). Both of these are good because they aren't too large and suit these machines better than the regular sized 165mm+ sized ones.

Unfortunately I no longer direct to any of our traders given my position on this site, for obvious reasons. Hopefully someone else will know the trader who stocks both of these types of pads and can advise you.

If you did decide to got for a dedicated machine polish rather than the SRP, then the Menzerna PO85RD 3.02 Power Finish on either of those 2 pads should give great results, followed by Menzerna PO85RE Final Finish to refine and sharpen the finish. If you only wanted to buy one polish and do it in one step rather than a correction > refining approach, then Menerna's 203S is sort of half way house between the aforementioned two, but obviously has less cutting ability. Without seeing the severity of the swirls you're trying to correct, it's impossible to determine which of the two options I've suggested here is best for you.


----------



## iainh

Just want to say thanks to all who have contributed on this. A DA was way down my list of things to get (having only read about detailing and not actually done any yet!)

Anyway, the sander I had was a MAC so just placed an order for the pads and polish

CHEERS GUYS - really really appreciated! :thumb:


----------



## grayfox

would someone kindly direct me to a correct backing plate for the mentioned mac DA for use with the spot CG Hex pads? ta


----------



## spanerman

The mac wont accept a conventional backing plate...

Sam.


----------



## grayfox

oh thats a shame, so you can only buy 135mm pads to work with it? good thing I haven't brought any other pads yet


----------



## mellowfellow

just use the smaller plate you got with machine ! you got 2 plates with mac didnt you ?


----------



## VIPER

grayfox said:


> oh thats a shame, so you can only buy 135mm pads to work with it? good thing I haven't brought any other pads yet


Or the 'Gloss It' pads at 145mm would be fine. Or you could just cut down any pad, in theory, to suit.


----------



## spanerman

mellowfellow said:


> just use the smaller plate you got with machine ! you got 2 plates with mac didnt you ?


The newer shape mac only comes with one backing plate.

Sam.


----------



## grayfox

^^ yup just got the one


----------



## mike_306

I've got the newer MAC sander (which has been great so far) and am thinking of tackling some moderate swirling on a modern audi soon. I've only got the finishing and polishing menz pads, do you reckon that will be enough in paired with some 105? Or will I need the white compounding pad, I'm not sure if the polishing pad will be able to touch the hard paint!


----------



## Doc

The conclusion on my Orange Silverline is that it is broken, like others I have seen on here.
It is only good for applying LSP as it simply doesnt spin enough to work any polish.

I have borrowed a Silverline Sander/Polisher from work that is a rotary so wish me luck!


----------



## rossmuir1978

just reserved my macallister.

i also have some major swirl marks on a black a3 s line 2007 model - any recomendations on pads and polish ?

cheers-the detailing virgin !!!

ross


----------



## theshrew

Ive not looked at this thread for a long time now but thought id say i was in B&Q at weekend and they seem to have the Macalister in stock again and it had a NEW sticker on it so presume its slightly different but still cheap :thumb:


----------



## Ptar64

Just wondering if this is any good to use?

http://www.paints4u.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=6609

Found it while looking for some paint for my car. I have VAG Paint so what would be recommended to use to get good results? Going to get a scrap panel hopefully at the weekend ready for some practise.


----------



## VIPER

Ptar64 said:


> Just wondering if this is any good to use?
> 
> http://www.paints4u.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=6609
> 
> Found it while looking for some paint for my car. I have VAG Paint so what would be recommended to use to get good results? Going to get a scrap panel hopefully at the weekend ready for some practise.


That's a rotary mate, not a random orbit. You can get a Silverline rotary for less than that from a few of our traders if you wanted to go down that route :thumb:


----------



## Ptar64

Viper said:


> That's a rotary mate, not a random orbit. You can get a Silverline rotary for less than that from a few of our traders if you wanted to go down that route :thumb:


Thanks for that Viper :thumb: I would like to start machine polishing, currently got a Seat Leon, which has the VAG paint (Black Magic).
Would it be worth me getting a DAS6 and learning that way to get results?
Or since its harder paint to go with a Rotary and get alot of practice then use that on my car?


----------



## VIPER

Not easy to answer really as just because it's harder paint doesn't necessarily equate that a DA will struggle and a rotary will make light work of it as the pad and polish combos will play a huge part in the finished result - not to mention good technique in the case of both machines.

I can't really say which way to go tbh. You'll get rotary fans saying go straight in with them after reading guides and getting practice, or even getting some personal tuition. Then there are the DA fans who will say that a rotary in inexperienced hands can be a tricky tool to master, and that given the right pad/polish and some patience you can achieve equally good results in a safer way.

I'd advise reading Dave KG's guides for both the rotary _and_ the DA and from those, you might get an indication of which is likely to suit you better (they're well worth reading anyway, even if you make up your mind which type of machine to get beforehand).

:thumb:


----------



## Ptar64

Viper, Thank you very much for your very clear response :thumb: 
I shall have a read of Daves guides and decide which I think will be best for me.

Then I will get shopping shortly after :buffer:.


----------



## Danno1975

So after using my Silverline rather a lot now I am thinking of getting a slightly better DA, I've been looking at the DAS-6 Random Orbit polisher for £79.95 on cyc

Specifications:

•Orbit Size: 8mm 
•Backing Plate Thread Size: 5/16" (same as Porter Cable, G220 and UDM's) 
•Variable 6 Speed Dial: 2,500 to 6,500rpm 
•Removable side handle (left or right side of machine) 
•Weight - 2.3kg (approx) 
•Supplied with two Velcro Backing Plates Size: 125mm ( 5” ) and 150mm (6")
•Fits 5", 6" and 6.5" polsihing pads 
Key Features:

•CE marked / 240v with UK plug 
•3.1 Meter Heavy Duty Cable 
•D-Handle and Side Handle 
•Canvas Carry Case 
•Aluminium Gear Housing Cover 
•CNC Finished Gears 
•Electricity Feedback Circuit 
•1 Year UK Manufacturer Warranty 

Will it be much better than the Silver line and it is worth the money?, got some mates cars to polish up this summer 

Thanks


----------



## tshirt2k

Hi, Been on here never posted before.

Found this sander in wickes. Anyone had experience with it? Bit more power than the macallister and £5 cheaper.










*480W Random Orbit Sander*
Hook and loop base pad means easy sheet change. Also has dust extraction facility and variable speed control.

Hook and loop base pad for easy sheet change
Dust extraction facility
Variable speed control
Supplied with 10 assorted sanding discs, hexagon key and dust collection bag
Sheet size 125mm
Orbit diameter 2.5mm
No load speed 5000-12000rpm
Weight 2.6kg


----------



## Danno1975

tshirt2k said:


> Hi, Been on here never posted before.
> 
> Found this sander in wickes. Anyone had experience with it? Bit more power than the macallister and £5 cheaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *480W Random Orbit Sander*
> Hook and loop base pad means easy sheet change. Also has dust extraction facility and variable speed control.
> 
> Hook and loop base pad for easy sheet change
> Dust extraction facility
> Variable speed control
> Supplied with 10 assorted sanding discs, hexagon key and dust collection bag
> Sheet size 125mm
> Orbit diameter 2.5mm
> No load speed 5000-12000rpm
> Weight 2.6kg


I've seen that looks ok to me:thumb:


----------



## bretttf

I've got the Mac from B & Q.
I have just ordered a couple of the Menz Orange and Yellow pads and the 4 bottle sample kit of Menz polish from CYC.

Which polish would be best suited for giving the headlights a buff up?
I'm guessing the fine/final finish and Yellow pad?

Great info too guys and thanks to everyone & Viper.


----------



## Danno1975

bretttf said:


> I've got the Mac from B & Q.
> I have just ordered a couple of the Menz Orange and Yellow pads and the 4 bottle sample kit of Menz polish from CYC.
> 
> Which polish would be best suited for giving the headlights a buff up?
> I'm guessing the fine/final finish and Yellow pad?
> 
> Great info too guys and thanks to everyone & Viper.


Yep good on gloss plastic trim too.


----------



## VIPER

@ shirt2k: Specs seem pretty much in line with the old orange Silverline, but the orbit seems small at 2.5mm - you sure that's correct? The Silverline's I'm sure was about 5mm (long time since I've used it tbh.).

2.5mm would take an age to break down polishes, although it would be okay for applying glazes and paint cleansers etc. on a finishing pad.


----------



## jayval

*xr2*



Viper said:


> Yes, it will be fine - I only use mine on speeds 1-3 (which should roughly keep it within the speed range of a G220) and under load on the panel it behaves just like other detailing machines. I've even used it on my XR2 which has quite soft paint and it worked fine.


Just had a look at your xr2 stunning brings back memorys although mines was silver


----------



## mr.valver

Just bought a Silverline (old orange one) with 125mm backing.

Whats the best pads to get and is it possible to change the backing plate for a 80mm one for using spot pads?


----------



## tshirt2k

Viper said:


> @ shirt2k: Specs seem pretty much in line with the old orange Silverline, but the orbit seems small at 2.5mm - you sure that's correct? The Silverline's I'm sure was about 5mm (long time since I've used it tbh.).
> 
> 2.5mm would take an age to break down polishes, although it would be okay for applying glazes and paint cleansers etc. on a finishing pad.


Thats what it says on the website.. How does that compare to the Mac? Want to have a go at using one of these to improve the paint on my golf.


----------



## Reflectology

if you have a compressor you need one of these http://catalogue.3m.eu/en_gb/gb-aad/Machines/Air_Powered_Random_Orbital_Sanders


----------



## mysticbertie

if i buy the mac (£35) or performance power (£20) from B&Q will it come with a velcro backing plate so i would just need to buy 2 x 135mm pads (menz orange and yellow). 

how does the 2 of these compare, i dont want to buy the cheap one and find it harder to work with when i may be using it for a good few hours i dont want a machine that makes it more labour intensive.

i have a 1995 bmw 5 series i want to shine and remove scratches and swirls from. what polishes should i get and as its an old car would a polish be better that has a filling action too? I would prefer good budget brands rather than best of the best stuff as im not working just now so money is tight. :buffer:

do i just need a medium cut polish and a finishing polish ? Do i then need a sealant and wax or is there one product does both?


----------



## VIPER

I'd advise the Mac from those 2 personally.

Yes it comes with a 125mm velcro backing plate attached so you just need the pads (Menzerna orange polishing and yellow finishing 135mm ones are ideal).

If you're just doing your own car then have a look at some of our traders' samples - they nearly all do Menzerna and Meguiars ones, and a 100ml (even a 50ml) bottle will be enough to do a full car. If you're planning on doing others afterwards then have a look at the Menerna 250ml kit.

You don't need a sealant and a wax, you can just use either, but if you are then apply them sealant first then wax over the top. I'd go one or the other myself.

:thumb:


----------



## mysticbertie

Viper said:


> I'd advise the Mac from those 2 personally.
> 
> Yes it comes with a 125mm velcro backing plate attached so you just need the pads (Menzerna orange polishing and yellow finishing 135mm ones are ideal).
> 
> If you're just doing your own car then have a look at some of our traders' samples - they nearly all do Menzerna and Meguiars ones, and a 100ml (even a 50ml) bottle will be enough to do a full car. If you're planning on doing others afterwards then have a look at the Menerna 250ml kit.
> 
> You don't need a sealant and a wax, you can just use either, but if you are then apply them sealant first then wax over the top. I'd go one or the other myself.
> 
> :thumb:


thanks mate i bought the mac in the nd and menz pads however the menz pads are useless on the DA and i have since read a lot about them not lasting on a DA so i read the hexlogic pads are better so im ordering them today. The menz pads just crumbled after a while and i only got my bonnet, wing and door done. The mac is a good bit of kit though :thumb:


----------



## adseybear

Is it possible to fit a smaller than 135mm pad to the Mac.

Like a 4" spot pad?


----------



## mysticbertie

adseybear said:


> Is it possible to fit a smaller than 135mm pad to the Mac.
> 
> Like a 4" spot pad?


i read the older mac had a spare backing plate and some people machined it to suit the smaller pads.

you could still attch a 140 pad but you risk damaging the paint with the exposed areas of the plate


----------



## SP36

Hi,

This is my first post so please forgive some of my lack of understanding.
I have been following this post closely over the last 6 weeks or so and finally decided to buy myself a Mac. I now need pads and I notice Menzerna pads seem to be popular with the Mac. However I am concerned with the fact that they seem to come a part after a few panels. So I'm thinking of going for the Chemical Guys Hex Logic Pads but I don't know which colour... Black or White or another?

I have a Performance Blue Mondeo ST TDCI with a few swirl marks and light scratches. As far I can gather its best to start low and work your way up in terms of the cut of the polish and pads. Is that correct? If so I currently use Autoglym SRP or UDS and have both in stock so that's the polish I'm going to start with (though I realise they have very little cut). What Hex Logic pad can anyone recommend I start with?

Thanks for any replys in advance!


----------



## mysticbertie

SP36 said:


> Hi,
> 
> This is my first post so please forgive some of my lack of understanding.
> I have been following this post closely over the last 6 weeks or so and finally decided to buy myself a Mac. I now need pads and I notice Menzerna pads seem to be popular with the Mac. However I am concerned with the fact that they seem to come a part after a few panels. So I'm thinking of going for the Chemical Guys Hex Logic Pads but I don't know which colour... Black or White or another?
> 
> I have a Performance Blue Mondeo ST TDCI with a few swirl marks and light scratches. As far I can gather its best to start low and work your way up in terms of the cut of the polish and pads. Is that correct? If so I currently use Autoglym SRP or UDS and have both in stock so that's the polish I'm going to start with (though I realise they have very little cut). What Hex Logic pad can anyone recommend I start with?
> 
> Thanks for any replys in advance!


yes the menz pads dont last, best not to buy them, i bought the hexlogics as after more research they seem to be the best option, from what i read many times i ended up buying yellow white and black, i have not had time to try them yet.


----------



## champ222

just found this thread... 182 pages!! lol

i read through the first 12 pages or so, and the orange silverline seemed the polisher of choice, that doesnt seem to be the case over the last few pages, is it not available now?

So what is currently the prefered budget random orbital?

i already have some Zaino Z-PC fusion, so any pad reccomendations for that would be useful too.

Thanks in advance 

Andy


----------



## wylie coyote

Looking to buy the Mac this weekend - is this still recommended as the budget DA choice? Anyone who's bought one recently got any feedback?

Cheers:thumb:


----------



## Ricko78

I was looking at the Mac a couple of weeks ago on the back of this thread. However, when I went to look at it and picked it up, personally it struck me as quite heavy, large, and cumbersome. Didn't feel great to me so spent an extra £40 and bought a DAS-6. Not saying its a bad machine (because i've never used it to comment) but maybe have a look and feel beforehand if anyone was thinking of ordering online blind.


----------



## champ222

good to know, is this the newer mac one they sell in b&q currently for £35 ish? as there was an older mac model that looks larger in the pictures at least...

did you feel the DAS-6 was much lighter when you got it?


----------



## Ricko78

Yeah it was the latest one, £35ish as you say. I would say that the DAS-6 felt lighter and it is far less cumbersome IMO. I also read on here that the way the Mac is designed would also suggest that you may not be able to get into more tricky areas (i.e. under the wing mirrors) and when you look at it you'll see why.

At the end of the day it is half the price + more of a DAS-6 and therefore you do have to bear this in mind. Personally though I’m glad I spent the extra and bought a dedicated machine rather than trying to save the money on the Mac and then always wishing I just spent the extra £40 for a better machine.

Maybe someone on here who has actually used both can give a more detailed response.


----------



## champ222

ok mate, good info there, thanks a lot.

i'll have a think!

where did you get your DAS-6 from?


----------



## Ricko78

I got mine from here:

http://www.autopaint-pro.co.uk/kestral-das-6-dual-action-sanderpolisher-655-p.asp

Ordered it one day and I think it came the next (or certainly the day after).


----------



## Yoghurtman

wylie coyote said:


> Looking to buy the Mac this weekend - is this still recommended as the budget DA choice? Anyone who's bought one recently got any feedback?
> 
> Cheers:thumb:


Mac works great for me, on my own cars.
used it maybe 3-4 times now and get good results using Menz polishes.

My cars are in pretty good condition anyway, but recently switched to Dodo Lime Prime, again with great results.

Had some water spots on the roof of my car last weekend, so broke out the Mac and LP and sorted it all out in under 30 mins.

Go for it! :thumb:


----------



## champ222

how is it for doing smaller areas?


----------



## Lee.GTi180

I apologise for my ignorance before I even begin writing my post lol All I want to do is remove abit of swirling from my car, the mrs's and maybe the parents if they ask nicely! So what's my best course of action (on a student's budget ) Could you please give me links to the machine, pads (for swirl removal and buffing) and the polish's I would need? Thanks alot in advance, it's very much appreciated!


----------



## maersk

Erm, its all in here.................


----------



## Kempy

I've read as much of this thread as possible and will probably buy a mac this week from B&Q, will it get swirls out? I was looking at using farecla G10 compound, will the mac be any good on this polish? otherwise I'll stick to SRP


----------



## ThcKid

Kempy said:


> I've read as much of this thread as possible and will probably buy a mac this week from B&Q, will it get swirls out? I was looking at using farecla G10 compound, will the mac be any good on this polish? otherwise I'll stick to SRP


Mac is pretty good at minor correction, i'm a newbie to the DA and i think it is a confidence inspiring machine that gets much better results than you would get by hand!

Here is my first attempt with MAC and Swirl-x 

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=165081


----------



## Kempy

I think its worth it. Polishing by hand is a waste of time lol. Is it quite slow progress with the small pads?


----------



## VIPER

Hard yes, but I wouldn't say it's a waste of time though. I had a Mini come to me over the weekend, black one as well which had been previously buzzed over with a rotary by some clown and left horrendous swirling. Now my neighbours were having a family BBQ and so I couldn't use the machine due to the noise, and had to polish by hand. Remember - black car and how hot it was at the weekend. Now of course I didn't get full correction, it was more an 'enhancement' but I still got great results by hand with Zaino dual sided foam applicators, Menz 3.02 and 203s and a lot of sweat :thumb:

Not ideal by any stretch, but considering the circumstances, when hand polishing is all that's available, it can give dramatic improvements, so not always a waste of time, it's just really, really hard work.


----------



## wylie coyote

I'm torn between getting a DAS6 or the Mac - had a look at the Mac in B&Q and it seemed quite heavy like a previous poster has said. Is there much difference or do I need to eat more spinach?

Anyone who's used the two able to comment?:thumb:


----------



## VIPER

Not used both myself, but I don't think you'll really notice much difference when actually in use in all honesty.

Where I think you need to make the distinction is if you're just doing your own/partners car etc. and the defects you plan on removing aren't that bad - just light/medium swirling and so on, then the Mac will probably be more than enough for your needs.

But if you think there's a chance you'll want to start doing mates' and neighbours' cars and will then be faced with varying degrees of paint defect removal challenges, then the slightly faster working times and more capable performance of a dedicated detailing machine, that facilites a wider range of pad options and has a larger lateral offest to the action would be in your best interests in my opinion.


----------



## wylie coyote

Just going to be doing my own/family cars, none of which are heavily swirled. Thanks for your comments - I think the Mac is all I need. Even if it may be a bit heavier than some others, this won't be so important compared to the saved effort over hand application.

Cheers Viper:thumb:


----------



## VIPER

You're welcome mate :thumb: On horizontal panels you won't notice it all because the machine will be resting on it's own weight anyway (plus a degree of downward pressure, depending on how much you need to apply to maintain a pad speed of at least 1 rev per second). On vertical panels then obviously you're holding the weight of the machine and then it might tell on you after a long spell. But in frankly I don't think there's sufficient difference between a Mac and a DAS-6 to have one giving you arm ache and one not. 

One thing I've found though, is that machines like the Mac and others discussed on this thread, due to their smaller offset are less prone to any adverse vibration reactions in your hands. This has been the case for me anyway and although that slightly lesser vibrating effect increases polish breakdown times a tad, it's got a bonus of maybe not making your hands/arms tingle after prolonged use.


----------



## SP36

So I got My Mac. I was advised to start low and move up with the cutting ability of the products I use. I got myself a Chem Guys Hex Logic Black pad and I had some Autoglym SRP and UDS I decided to start with that with no real results (I realise non of these have any cut). Just made applying the polish easier. It also went very dusty.

Think I'm going to move up to a Hex Logic pad White or Green pad and use Menz 203. Would you recommend practice of a scrap panel or would I be okay to go straight in there?


----------



## Danno1975

Had to buy a mac from B&Q in the week as my main polisher busted whilst polishing a Black Mini Cooper S (a very special one I'll post up about soon), used it for enhancement.

Thought mac was really good and as my polisher is still waiting for bits I used the mac again this weekend on a range Rover for lime prime'ing and Diamond White application and really enjoyed using it.

Might sell it soon though as I have my old Silver line as a back up (for got to take it with me though when I needed it!!.


----------



## Kempy

Went to B&Q to get a MAc but there was none left. Must be a bunch of people with the same idea lol. There was one on show, they weigh a fair bit, so I looked at the next priced item being a B&D one but this didnt have a adjustable speed on it. So I bought the cheapo one for £20  I doesnt have the same wattage as the MAc but using it today, it worked fine enough for me being a noob. 

Anyway I used cheapo again orange compound pads from machine mart, work well. Not being able to say the difference between better ones tbh

I wanna buy new compounding pads, as these cheapo ones might come off the Velcro soon. From reading the forum, I see that certain pads might cut more, these might be better for me maybe as im down on power?? 

Will I get the most out of the more abrasive polishes with my budget orbital? I want to do my mothers polo but the swirls and stretches on it are unbelievably bad

thanks


----------



## Kempy

anybody else bought the cheap orbital like me?


----------



## Danno1975

Kempy said:


> Went to B&Q to get a MAc but there was none left. Must be a bunch of people with the same idea lol. There was one on show, they weigh a fair bit, so I looked at the next priced item being a B&D one but this didnt have a adjustable speed on it. So I bought the cheapo one for £20  I doesnt have the same wattage as the MAc but using it today, it worked fine enough for me being a noob.
> 
> Anyway I used cheapo again orange compound pads from machine mart, work well. Not being able to say the difference between better ones tbh
> 
> I wanna buy new compounding pads, as these cheapo ones might come off the Velcro soon. From reading the forum, I see that certain pads might cut more, these might be better for me maybe as im down on power??
> 
> Will I get the most out of the more abrasive polishes with my budget orbital? I want to do my mothers polo but the swirls and stretches on it are unbelievably bad
> 
> thanks


Chemical guys pads are great, I did this to a badly swirled Shogun on my mac using the white finishing pad and lime prime.

Before








After

















PS, I have a Silver line and a Mac and the Mac is far better than the Silver line. I also have a DAS-6 pro which I threaded during a detail and had to replace it urgently with the mac from B&Q as i was 112 mile from home. Its great for glaze and cleaner wax and I find myself reaching for it instead of the DAS. It can clog around the rubber dust cover, but I am sure it will clean up ok (not with your finger mind, I have two nasty cuts from ill advised wiping (first time shame on you second time shame on me)


----------



## Kempy

you got skills. would love to be able to correct the mess that my mum polo is in. gotta get some pads and lime prime it appears


----------



## Kempy

how did it remove swirls? what does the lime prime do? From reading its not an abrasive


----------



## Simpson.

Just got a Mac from B&Q


----------



## Simpson.

Kempy said:


> how did it remove swirls? what does the lime prime do? From reading its not an abrasive


Its contains minor abbrasives


----------



## Danno1975

Kempy said:


> how did it remove swirls? what does the lime prime do? From reading its not an abrasive


Lime prime is really just a cleaner wax, but it does have micro abrasives that on softer paint can correct swirls if used correctly.

Try it on the Polo on a polishing pad and work it really well:buffer:, might take a few hits but you'll get some nice results.

Few more shots here http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=2240224#post2240224


----------



## Danno1975

Right, got my DAS-6 pro fixed but like using the Mac too so was using it to glaze today and it started bogging, with glaze on a finishing pad!!, seems to be really stiff now thought it might be polish between the backig plate and the rubber seal but its clean, is there a known issue or shall i just take it back.


----------



## vekma

ive just got this from b+q no offers on was £39.98 is it a latest version

this is for a ford puma i have

gonna get some menz pads and polish fron cyc


----------



## AdamVTI

i just got one of these, havnt got any pads yet tho! gonna be using lime prime for now, see how that goes.

i only paid 34.99 tho last week!


----------



## priceworth

hi guys, i got one of those sanders and i was wondering if it's going to work somehow - http://service.blackanddecker.co.uk/Products/ProductDetailBDK.aspx?ProductID=1079 :newbie:


----------



## Kempy

no I dont think that'll work, mainly due to you not being able to get pads that shape


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## priceworth

better picture in there - http://www.ispesl.it/vibrationdatabase/documenti/leggiDettHAV.asp?lang=en&quale=1641&pag=44

It has a backing plate which is 150mm but now i tried it and it looks it's not really rotating, it does rotate but by the vibrations. What's actually the difference between the random orbital sanders and the oribital sanders?


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## priceworth

look like the topic is quite old, i readed every single page and i dont know now which is the latest machine for most bangs per bucks 

This - http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?isSearch=true&fh_search=0000005179565&x=19&y=13

This - PRO CLARKE RANDOM ORBITAL SANDER CROS2 +SANDING DISCS: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

This - http://www.wickes.co.uk/480W-Random-Orbit-Sander/invt/186873

Or this http://www.screwfix.com/prods/70994...r;jsessionid=RDZW4250XMMC0CSTHZOSFFQ?ts=09510


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## pauly87

read through this thread, some great info but still abit confused. i'm looking at getting this:
http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.j...efview=lister&ts=1285010561473&isSearch=false

would i be better getting chemical guys hex pads or menz pads?
read about the menz pads falling apart.

going to get some menz polish aswel.

thanks in advance :thumb:


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## pete5570

Some of these alternatives are running at 4000-12000. That seems a bit fast for even a DA.


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## peachey

found this offer on at screwfix

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/70994...s-_-Titan PGEX42BE.1 420W Random Orbit Sander


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## samion

Sorry to revive an old thread, but thought it is relevant seeing as my recent headache about whether or not to buy a DA for SRPing my Audi ended up totally by accident with me bumping into one of these in my brother's garage:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-TRITON-TR...Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item2eb4fa8458

In case the link dies it's a Triton Tros Random Orbital Sander 125mm with 250W and 5" velcro plate and speeds of 9000-12000. I switched it on and it moves in a random sort of way like the vids I've seen of a DA.

Now I'm quite a newbie and thought I was onto something amazing but then got pointed to this thread so I guess no kudos to me  But I'm quite keen to try this thing out and report how it is here with pics if it will help others.

I just need some help though please!

I have SRP and I will be buying a wax of some sort. Don't know which yet. I also have some megs scratch-X for some mild scratches on my black Audi. I'm hoping to apply using this but I have some questions. If someone can help please I'd be delighted and will hopefully be in a position to be of some use to the forum with some before/after pics when I am confident enough:

1) I want cheap pads that will *maybe* be able to give some good cut (I know SRP isn't a cutter but I understand it has *some* cutting ability - if only to rounden the edges of the swirls...), especially for when I'm using scratch-X. What should I go for? I was looking at http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/polis...g-pads/menzerna-compounding-pad/prod_212.html but I don't know if it would be too aggressive. But maybe on a cheap thing like this it'd be ok? And should I be fitting bigger than 5"?

2) I'm worried that the speed is 9000-12000 but I have read on this thread that I should only be going at a speed of 2 !!!!!! But then there's OPM vs RPM which does my head in a bit. What if I press hardish to get it to turn twice per second as advised... will I be doing damage because the speed (of oscillations I'm guessing!?) is too high? Or as it's a cheap RO device is it unlikely I'll ever do damage unless I use it like an idiot for ages on one spot? Especially as it's only 250W?

Any help would be much appreciated because I'm totally new to machines (and even SRP and wax for that matter!)


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## Dingo2002

OPM = oscillations per minute
RPM = Revolutions per minute

Kind of the same thing except OPM counts the number of oscillations and RPM counts the number of times the head rotates. 

9000 is too high as a starting speed. Speed 2 on a Pro DA would be nearer 2500-3500 with the highest speed probably being around 7-8000

The cheap polishers in Halfords are no good for a different reason to the Random Orbital you found. The Halfords ones are low power and tend to bog down when pressure is applied. 
Yours is low power but has a very fast oscillation which could dry the polish out too quick or heat up the paint quickly. At those speeds I suspect most of the polish will fly off anyway 

SRP does have a little cut and on a compounding pad or polishing pad would assist in cutting back lacquer though no where near as quickly as a dedicated cutting polish. I've seen correction to a wet sanded porsche front bumper undertaken with a wool pad and just using water as a lubricant and the finish was impressive though then needed refining.

The Random Orbitals further back in the thread ran at a lower speed so could be used at their lowest setting to correct and probably do a fairly reasonable job.


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## samion

Thank you for that.

But a pro DA would have three times the power.

I'm wondering if I press a bit and it slows a bit whether it will calm it down to being more comparable?

Even if it does remain at 9000opm, can I give it a safe go? i.e. if I maybe pass quite quickly so it doesn't burn the paint at all?


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## Dingo2002

samion said:


> Thank you for that.
> 
> But a pro DA would have three times the power.
> 
> I'm wondering if I press a bit and it slows a bit whether it will calm it down to being more comparable?
> 
> Even if it does remain at 9000opm, can I give it a safe go? i.e. if I maybe pass quite quickly so it doesn't burn the paint at all?


I think your confusing power and speed. At those kind of speeds the abrasives in the polishes aren't going to break down at the correct pace and therefore won't work on the paint correctly. You may get the machine to slow down by applying sufficient pressure but I'm not sure you'd be able to keep it consistent enough to break down the polish properly.

I wouldn't recommend giving it a go but at the end of the day its your paintwork 

If you do, make sure you let us know how you got on. :buffer:


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## VIPER

The menzerna 'white' is a bit too firm for your needs I think. Try try the orange one which is still fairly firm as 'polishing' pads go, but will 'break in' in use and soften up. you can also 'break it in', by the day before you're going to use it, just wash it in the sink - you don't need anything other than water; simply get it soaked and massage it a bit. This softens up the cells of the foam structure and once dry again (which it will be by the following day), it will be softer than it was out of the packet. I've done this with a few Menz oranges I've used.

Pad does need to bigger than the backing plate though for obvious reasons.

9000 starting OPM is too high really, and very first machine that kicked off this thread had a starting OPM of 4000 if memory serves, which isn't a million miles away from say, a G220's 2760. The (usually) smaller offset of these machines does compensate to a degree for the higher speeds they run at. Providing under load (weight of the machine plus a bit) the pad rotates at least at 1 rev per second - more is better), then you'll be okay providing the other factors are sound (correct pad/product match up and the solidity of the paintwork you're polishing).

:thumb:


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## tarbyonline

I came across one of the halfords DA sanders by accident today when getting some paint mixed. Only 20 quid so thought what the hell! As previously discussed its definitely a DA and the speeds arent indicated. However the trigger is pressure sensitive so you can slow it right down - the speed selector merely stops you depressing the trigger past a certain level.

Initial thoughts are its a lot quieter than expected and seems solidly built - certainly more solid than I expect a £20 power tool to be and I would say better build than the £30 performance power in B&Q atm (also think its lighter than the b&q). If anyone is interested it seems to be supplied to Halfords by a company called nu-tool.

Comes with a hard case (which has metal locking clasps!). Most interesting to me is that the backplate is removable and held on by a single screw. however there are 4 screws affixing the actual backplate itself 2 the mount attached to the sander which look to me to be spaced the same as those on the das6 backplate, so I may investigate this further. 

Cant judge its actual polishing performance as I have no pads yet. Looks like Im going to go with Chemical Guys Hexlogic 5.5" pads once they come back to me with the best colours for my needs (its quite a range). I looked at menzerna pads but as it will be 2 Fiats with very soft paint (I know from experience) I will be polishing I thought the foam might be a bit hard. Looking towards 85RE polish as well.

Will update when I have some feedback!

EDIT: Its also labeled as excentric. Tried pressing it hard against some cardboard earlier on (no pad) on slowest setting and it threw it across the room so will be interesting to see if it stops orbiting like some other models seem to have

EDIT 2: Have ordered white and black hexlogic pads from car wash n wax, and menz 106FA and 85RD from CYC


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## tarbyonline

Just in case anyone wondered (like me) how this things worked/looked inside, heres some (iphone) pics. This is of the Halfords one but I would imagine they are all pretty similar.













































The random orbit bit!


















Closeup of the speed selector on this model which basically just limits how far you can depress the trigger.


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## kgh1977

Hi all,

went to the local B&Q and the mac random orbital sander are no longer on offer....I'm gutted to say the least!


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## silky

i have the b&q performance one with hex 5.5" pads and having had some practice goes etc, finally took on a scratch on the roof of my car and on the bonnet using the orange hex pad and some farecla G3 from halfords.. to be honest i wasnt expecting much but its took i would say about 90% of the scratches out in total, can only really see them at certain angles 

will be going for a proper one shortly as it can be quite awkward at times to use but it does the job


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## BrAtKo

Hello there I'm newbie and I'd like to ask you about practical experiences with Silverline Silverstorm 125563 (blue one) ? Is it worth of that money or it is much better to earn money for Kestrel DAS6 ? I think I will not use it very often to polish with (I think up to 4 times per year). Thank you.


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## Furkin

I'm thinking of taking the plunge & trying one or other of these machines.
It's taken hours to read this thread alone, & I'm still not sure which_ (entry level)_ machines are coming out on top of recommendations and what are the basic pads to start with.

I see mention of the hardness of paint/lacquer etc, which has a bearing.
I have a MB E220 CDI (211). How do I know how hard the paint is, or is there a table of paint hardnesses ?

To save me reading all this again - bearing in mind that opinions & machines might have changed since the OP - whichever machine I buy, what is the 'starter' pack that I need to buy - pads, polishes, compounds etc and which machine is currently favourable ?

Cheers all


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## discopooh

dont know if this is any good in the sale £19.99

http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb289sdr-random-orbit-sander-230v/46113?_requestid=60010

Orbit diameter: 2.5mm seems alittle on the small size


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## stephen2982

i have the same question as furkin, so what is the verdict for a alternative DA to the g220? does one actually exist that is any good for paint correction?


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## joshtbh

would also like to know please!


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## Nath

I have just bought a Clarke Cros-1 orbital sander. I wanted a DA for applying glazes etc but use the rotary to correct so didn't want to spend much on a DA. The clarke sander is quite good to be honest, i tried correcting an area on my new van, which it did very well, although i did have to use to firmer pad and polish than i would usually select on this type of paint. However, it does take a long long time to fully break down the polish compared to the rotary, i got bored after a while and did the van with the rotary in the end - i've never used a DA though so i'm not sure how they compare to the DAS6 or G220.

To me, i would say you could get a decent level of correction with one, but be prepare to take a long time to do it


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## stephen2982

is the clark similar spec to a DAS6 or PRO?


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## maersk

similar but smaller orbit.


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## stephen2982

so are they any cheaper alternatives to the DAS models?


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## stephen2982

hello? revival


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## greymda

what pad size should be used with the Mac?


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## greymda

nobody is selling a macallister?


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## wicker_man

It doesn't look like this thread has been updated much which is a shame as I have just bought a Clarke CROS1 (got a second hand one pretty cheaply) and just waiting for it to arrive. 

I'm currently doing some research on which pads to go for (best for BMW paint), the CG Hex Logic ones look pretty good, I assume I will need the 5.5" pads which should attach straight on (the Clarke takes 125mm discs).


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## m411mtf

Holy thread resurrection Batman!! Thought I'd just pop in to say that 11 years later, I'm still using the Clarke orbital sander I purchased based on recommendations in this thread and it's still working wonders on our cars' bodywork!!


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## Imprezaworks

Good effort that. Which one is it?


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## VIPER

m411mtf said:


> Holy thread resurrection Batman!! Thought I'd just pop in to say that 11 years later, I'm still using the Clarke orbital sander I purchased based on recommendations in this thread and it's still working wonders on our cars' bodywork!!


Blimey, that's great to hear :buffer: I remember posting quite a bit on this thread and I think there might have been another one as well at some point? 
My old Silverline random orbit went to the preverbial power-tools-in-the-sky not so long ago when the velcro 'hook' detatched itself from backing plate meaning it was impossible to attach a pad. Still, it did de-swirl a fair few cars in it's time for what I think was about a £25 purchase price. I don't tend to do much (if any) machine polishing these days but I still ought to get a replacement for my kit really.


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## anewman

Dusting off my MacAllister 450w random orbital sander, and contemplating buying a DAS-6 pro instead before tackling my 2016 Skoda Superb with Menzerna polishes. Anyone made the upgrade? Was it worth it?


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## markbigears

I've still got my orange silverline! This thread takes me back to the good ole days.
Upgraded now, but just can't part with it's part of my detailing history!


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