# Car Service wash issue



## Mate (Nov 4, 2013)

Thought id post as im sure there will be others with some advice.

I just had my car serviced by the garage. When i booked over the phone, i said please do not wash or valet.

And when i went in face to face to drop the car off, i also stated the same, and it was written on the order sheet.

Now obiovusly it got washed and valeted.

Just wanted to know where i stand, maybe what i should say or do, or do nothing but grunt 

Id just rather them not do it as A, I like to do it so I know its done well. and B, Its not their car so who knows what they scrubbed it with.


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## Keir (Aug 31, 2010)

Well is there a problem?


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

either suck it up ..never go there again

or

go down there , have the dealer principal pull up the paperwork , explain youve spent £££ having the car detailed to show condition and now its been wrecked with a dirty sponge , tell him theyve let you down badly and you would like them to pay for the services of a detailer to make the car right again


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Have they caused any harm to the car? 

If they have caused harm, then complain. If there is no damage, then there isn't anything to complain about.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

And as far as a dealership is concerned......swirls are not considered damage.:thumb:


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

And if you've not already got one. Put your name down for the DW Window Hanger Sign. 

They do work... 

That's if the dealership valeter can read english...


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## Mate (Nov 4, 2013)

neilos said:


> And if you've not already got one. Put your name down for the DW Window Hanger Sign.
> 
> They do work...
> 
> That's if the dealership valeter can read english...


they might struggle with that when they cant read whats written on the order form.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

You may have grounds for a legal case here I think, if it was written on the job sheet not to wash your car then they should be liable. I would insist they sort the problem out. If not then seek advice.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Is it your White cupra from the picture, you are going to have trouble showing swirls from your paint in these weather conditions, personally I feel you do not have a leg to stand on, the colour does not do the car justice if it is white, but what is the damage though have you seen from collection, you should of had a word when you collected the car and inform them I informed you not wash the vehicle and it's been done.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

S63 said:


> And as far as a dealership is concerned......swirls are not considered damage.:thumb:


If a car goes in and it's in show room condition with no swirls or scratches WHAT SO EVER, then I would consider it to be damaged


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Soul boy 68 said:


> You may have grounds for a legal case here I think, if it was written on the job sheet not to wash your car then they should be liable. I would insist they sort the problem out. If not then seek advice.


Unless there is serious damage that ain't ever going to happen.


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## sheady82 (Jan 15, 2014)

has it been damaged ?


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Soul boy 68 said:


> If a car goes in and it's in show room condition with no swirls or scratches WHAT SO EVER, then I would consider it to be damaged


What you consider damage and that of the dealer are very different, there are very very rare cases and I'd be happy to be proven wrong.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

S63 said:


> What you consider damage and that of the dealer are very different, there are very very rare cases and I'd be happy to be proven wrong.


In a nutshell, showroom condition does not mean swirl free outside of a few opinions on here.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

S63 said:


> What you consider damage and that of the dealer are very different, there are very very rare cases and I'd be happy to be proven wrong.


With out seeing the pictures, we may never know. the point is the poor chap specified not to wash the car and has written proof of it, so some kind of breach has been committed here I think.


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## dooka (Aug 1, 2006)

I have got so much money out of dealers for clients over the years. If it is written in the service book/sheet not to wash and they do and inflict damage, it is down to them to repair that damage and put the vehicle back to the state it was left to them in..

Is it an independent small garage or is it a main dealer. Main dealers will pay up more easily..

If it is Audi, then like one of my clients, you may need to pursue legal action..


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## GNshaving (Feb 13, 2014)

If there is not damage id just take it on the chin.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Soul boy 68 said:


> With out seeing the pictures, we may never know. the point is the poor chap specified not to wash the car and has written proof of it, so some kind of breach has been committed here I think.


You think wrong, a dealership will not accept the job card as legally binding document in view of the fact they often use outside agencies for staffing, often temporary or very often nowadays the service wash team.

Said it so many times before on here, 99.999% of paying customers wouldn't know a swirl if it smacked them in the face. The only complaints you ever get is if the car HAS NOT been washed. Any court of law would recognise this fact.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

S63 said:


> You think wrong, a dealership will not accept the job card as legally binding document in view of the fact they often use outside agencies for staffing, often temporary or very often nowadays the service wash team.
> 
> Said it so many times before on here, 99.999% of paying customers wouldn't know a swirl if it smacked them in the face. The only complaints you ever get is if the car HAS NOT been washed. Any court of law would recognise this fact.


But shurley if the chap specified not to wash the car and it was all written on the job sheet then he must have a case and yes 99.999% of customers would not know the difference of swirls and scratches but this man does.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Soul boy 68 said:


> But shurley if the chap specified not to wash the car and it was all written on the job sheet then he must have a case and yes 99.999% of customers would not know the difference of swirls and scratches but this man does.


You need to go and work in a dealership for a while to fully appreciate and understand how many (not all) work. The margins are exceptionally tight so we have a sales manager spending a lot of his day crunching numbers on his PC hoping to improve sales, the after sales manager is doing the same thing working out if his techs' hours are on budget....it's all they talk about, invoicing and hours. The culprit in my view is the manufacturer...extremely demanding in what they expect, offering little back in the way of margins.

I'm in and out of customer cars all day long, many are so disgusting I need to wear protective clothing. A fair percentage of customers are rude, little knowledge of how their car works and have no concept of how a dealership operates. DW car owners are different but form such a small percentage of the populous it would not be financially viable for a dealership to change its ways to suit us.

Dooka tells us a different story, I'm pleased to hear there are a few rare examples, these dealerships should be named and praised and become to be known as DF dealerships (detailer friendly) I for one would use them if possible.:thumb:


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## Leebo310 (Sep 30, 2013)

Don't really understand the comment "go and work in a dealership for a while to fully appreciate how many work" I worked in a dealership for 7 years yet I'd still be pi55ed off and complain if this happened to me!
Issues at the dealership isn't the OP or anyone else's problem, other than the dealership themselves - he has given them specific instructions both in person and documented and they haven't followed them, so he's got a right to complain!

Obviously the issue is if there actually is any damage to complain about (which I don't think the OP has stated yet??) 
It's been assumed the damage is just swirls which as you rightly say majority of the population aren't even aware of and won't be considered damage by many dealerships but if we're talking scratches etc then he has grounds for them to fix it surely?

Out of interest, if the job card isn't legally binding then, what actual contract do you have with a dealer for them to only carry out the work that you've requested? Not being funny, just generally curious.


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## Chino (Sep 12, 2011)

All this discussion, but it has still not been stated if there is any damage. Unless it's anything serious I'd just take it on the chin. If it's got a few swirls, boo-hoo, it's got swirls. When this happens to me it just gives me an excuse to get the DA and a can of beer out at weekend, have some man-time as the mrs coins it, and sort said swirls, because that's what we all enjoy doing if we're on this site, right?


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

I would imagine you'll have a hard time proving they've caused swirls, scratches etc without photographic proof they were not there already..


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

S63 said:


> You need to go and work in a dealership for a while to fully appreciate and understand how many (not all) work. The margins are exceptionally tight so we have a sales manager spending a lot of his day crunching numbers on his PC hoping to improve sales, the after sales manager is doing the same thing working out if his techs' hours are on budget....it's all they talk about, invoicing and hours. The culprit in my view is the manufacturer...extremely demanding in what they expect, offering little back in the way of margins.
> 
> I'm in and out of customer cars all day long, many are so disgusting I need to wear protective clothing. A fair percentage of customers are rude, little knowledge of how their car works and have no concept of how a dealership operates. DW car owners are different but form such a small percentage of the populous it would not be financially viable for a dealership to change its ways to suit us.
> 
> Dooka tells us a different story, I'm pleased to hear there are a few rare examples, these dealerships should be named and praised and become to be known as DF dealerships (detailer friendly) I for one would use them if possible.:thumb:


Good points you have raised on this and I can relate to this all the way. It's a shame they can't improve on this level of service.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

A good idea would be that next time take a swirl finder light and have a walk around you car with the service manager and show him or her that there is no swirls or scratches and have this written on the work sheet, they would be the first to walk around a curtesy car with you and check for any damage.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Soul boy 68 said:


> Good points you have raised on this and I can relate to this all the way. It's a shame they can't improve on this level of service.


Like anything else in business, they could improve by passing the extra costs onto the customer, the service wash within the group I work for is free, if a charge was applied they would be inundated with complaints, as it is, in the near three years I've been working there I can recall just one complaint which was actually from a van driver whose plastic trim had turned from black to grey:doublesho


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Soul boy 68 said:


> A good idea would be that next time take a swirl finder light and have a walk around you car with the service manager and show him or her that there is no swirls or scratches and have this written on the work sheet, they would be the first to walk around a curtesy car with you and check for any damage.


Service managers do not check courtesy cars for damage, that's one of my tasks, I reckon I check approx 25% as I'm often away doing lifts or collections, nobody else does it in my absence.

If and it's a big if you could get a manager to agree to walk with you round your car with an inspection light both before and after, you'll have done very well, you'll have done even better to educate him about your idea of swirl damage. if you can then get him to sign a document stating he will pay a professional detailer to correct any swirls inflicted, give yourself a big pat on the back:thumb:


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## Natalie (Jan 19, 2011)

Unfortunately there's been plenty of posts on here about dealers ignoring requests, I think the only way to prevent it is notes stuck to steering wheel, DW hangar, try where possible to send in an already clean car.

Hope they've not caused too much damage, but I think it will be difficult to prove they have done it if there is, unless you did a walk round with them when it was dropped off.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

As we have seen, signs in the car are no guarantee, a number of reasons can be attributed. It is a well known fact that many dealerships use foreign valeters, we have some at work that speak zero English, even if they can read English they do not get to see the job card, it's up to the service advisor to pass on that info..........a 50/50 shot and even then will the valeter comply? 

I'm no different to any other member here and took my employers cars in for repairs or service with trepidation. I struck up a very good relationship with the service manager at Mercedes in Brentford, I made sure he knew what detailing was all about and in five years they only screwed up once and washed the car which did inflict swirls, no big deal, an excuse to get the polish out.


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## Mate (Nov 4, 2013)

There was no physical damage/scratches done, that im aware of, only really viewed it briefly in what little light there was this morning, (picked up the car in the dark).

Reading some decent replies, fair to say if there was damage, then i would be going straight back, but when the feedback email comes through for using them ill make a note on there.

And as kev said, im sure they would go down the route of prove it was them.

I posted just wanting to get advice if i had any right to do anything really.


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## Natalie (Jan 19, 2011)

S63 said:


> As we have seen, signs in the car are no guarantee, a number of reasons can be attributed. It is a well known fact that many dealerships use foreign valeters, we have some at work that speak zero English, even if they can read English


There used to be one you could download on here that was just pictures, but it's disappeared


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## Kiashuma (May 4, 2011)

I only use independent garages and from what i read here i am glad.

Targets, paperwork etc, what happended to good old customer service, putting them first?

Not just garages, but any business, if i asked for something to be done, and it was not up to my standard then i would never be back.


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## whoami (Feb 25, 2007)

S63 said:


> Service managers do not check courtesy cars for damage


It's always been a mystery to me exactly what they do...


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## Natalie (Jan 19, 2011)

Found one https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/wqnse7kph2ru3pv/DetailingWorldDONOTWASH.doc


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

whoami said:


> It's always been a mystery to me exactly what they do...


Make themselves look busy, important, and most of all disrupt advisors and techs, when a manager is away the operation runs much better.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Natalie said:


> Found one https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/wqnse7kph2ru3pv/DetailingWorldDONOTWASH.doc


I guess it all helps, make one small enough out of plastic and put it on the key ring, it will stand out from the hundreds of others in the key cabinets.


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## whoami (Feb 25, 2007)

S63 said:


> Make themselves look busy, important, and most of all disrupt advisors and techs, when a manager is away the operation runs much better.


Well they certainly don't seem to be there to assist customers either.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Mine's going in for some work Tuesday and there will be a sign on all 4 windows and stuck to the dash asking them not to wash. If they do then I'll be irritated but as the service manager said last time on the old car "you can't un-wash it" - unhelpful but true.

The dealer has an obligation to take reasonable care of your car but washing it wouldn't constitute lack of reasonable care.

Mind you, the job sheet which you sign does form the basis of the work being agreed so therefore if you specify "do not wash" I'd expect to be able to take similar action as the garage would were you to challenge the work specified and refuse to pay for some or all of it.


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## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

I do about 6-8 reports a month which can be 9-10 pages long for cars that come out of the dealers having been washed after the owners telling the dealers not to wash them

The reports cost the customer/dealer £90 a time regardless of the outcome of the case. 

I've never had a dealer not cough up after a report of mine. I've got Audi uk guys in the unit tomorrow, a brand director for vw on Thursday and two "screw up" jobs in next week. 

Sometimes a customer will bring me a car the dealers have washed by mistake and not want to risk the £90 for a report. Sometimes all they need to do is mention to the dealers they are not impressed and want the damage rectifying

Whether or not the dealer accepts swirl marks to be damage or not has no bearing on your right for the vehicle to be rectified. Ignorance on their part is no excuse. As long as you have a concise report of the vehicle condition before and after, there is little the dealers can do to wriggle out if it.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Be very honest, how many of you go out with a service advisor and check around your car for damage before and after service?


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## Puntoboy (Jun 30, 2007)

S63 said:


> Dooka tells us a different story, I'm pleased to hear there are a few rare examples, these dealerships should be named and praised and become to be known as DF dealerships (detailer friendly) I for one would use them if possible.:thumb:


I can tell you one such dealership. Sturgess of Leicester, Jaguar. I ordered my XF from them in August and after reading several horror stories on here I was going to ask them not to wash the car before collection and just remove the plastic etc. but I saw a couple of cars they prepared a few weeks before mine was due and decided not to.

One such car, an XFR-S, was collected on the 1st September and looked immaculate. Not a swirl in sight.










So decided to let them prepare it as normal and I wasn't disappointed. Ok so they didn't protect the car, or at least using good quality LSP, but the finish was perfect. No marks, swirls or anything I could see on the paint. Since then I've taken my car back to them once for a minor fault and they agreed not to was the car again (as I had applied my own LSP by this time) and it was returned exactly as I had left it with them. They even have me the pleasure of driving an XKR for the day whilst my car was in.

This isn't a rare case either, other FMs from the Jaguar forum also have experienced this second to none customer service.

Then in the last two weeks we've ordered a new Abarth 500 for my fiancée and luckily I know a guy who works in the valeting bay at the dealer. He offered to let me come over and help prepare the 500 for collection in a couple of weeks. I've just ordered some C1, EXO, G1 and C5 for it to apply at the same time. I've been lucky with this one as I guess they wouldn't normally allow this.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

S63 said:


> Be very honest, how many of you go out with a service advisor and check around your car for damage before and after service?


Never. I ask them not to wash and it almost always works. Perhaps my OCD is slipping as I'd rather the car was maintained correctly than worrying about whether they've dared to service wash it.

Bottom line is that most dealers are taking a business decision if a complaint gets made rather than risk poor feedback going back to head office / manufacturer. If any let it get legal chances are it'd never get through court as at best it would be breach of contract IF the work sheet is deemed a legally binding contract.

Washing a car cannot be deemed lack of reasonable care.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

The reason I asked the question is to encourage all of you to do this inspection before and after, not to determine whether your car has been washed against your wishes but far more importantly to check for damage caused by moving your car from one part of the dealership to another. Swirls are small fry compared to dings, dents and scrapes that happen all too often when cars are moved by techs, valeters, advisors etc. Quite often plenty of space when you arrive at customer parking, a different story within the tight spaces in the compound unseen by customers.

The process of proving the dealership is at fault for causing damage is very easy and black and white....that's if you've done the before and after inspection with an advisor witnessing your signature of approval.

Don't forget to check all your alloys for kerbing too, many cars a day go out for test drives to either diagnose or check work done is satisfactory.


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## 66Cobra (May 27, 2012)

S63 said:


> Be very honest, how many of you go out with a service advisor and check around your car for damage before and after service?


Not many but I think a lot more from now on.....

Just had a 61 plate traffic in for first service and they managed to bend the lower lip of the sill while jacking up nothing said, Then I noticed it a week later and called the service manager told me to call up with it and he arranged for the repair to be done. Still not happy paid to have van damaged.

I think that most would agree is that we want what we pay for nothing more nothing less.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

S63 said:


> Be very honest, how many of you go out with a service advisor and check around your car for damage before and after service?


I do & I also take photos from various angles/close ups too.

Just covering my back.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Kinda relevant but sitting at Autoglass Guildford right now having a chip repaired (thanks to the Bangladeshi back road the A43 became) and they spent 10 minutes checking the car inside & out. 

Hope the dealer is as diligent tomorrow lol.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Mate said:


> Thought id post as im sure there will be others with some advice.
> 
> I just had my car serviced by the garage. When i booked over the phone, i said please do not wash or valet.
> 
> ...


I thought I'd posted in this thread but obviously not.

You haven't said whether any 'damage' of any type was caused. If the car was swirl free before it went in and now it's not then do what I did and raise it with them. I got significant compensation from Audi Glasgow when they did this to mine after I told them not to.

BTW if it's written on your signed job sheet it forms part of the contract. Someone said they use contractors or something or other so the job card doesn't make a difference but that's got nowt to do with it. Your contract is with the dealer, if they employ a contractor to do work that's between the contractor and the dealer. That doesn't affect your contract with the dealer.

So was any damage caused?

Edit: Just spotted this...


Mate said:


> There was no physical damage/scratches done, that im aware of, only really viewed it briefly in what little light there was this morning, (picked up the car in the dark).
> 
> Reading some decent replies, fair to say if there was damage, then i would be going straight back, but when the feedback email comes through for using them ill make a note on there.
> 
> ...


If there was no damage it kinda makes this a rather pointless thread.


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## Keir (Aug 31, 2010)

Mate said:


> There was no physical damage/scratches done, that im aware of, only really viewed it briefly in what little light there was this morning, (picked up the car in the dark).
> 
> Reading some decent replies, fair to say if there was damage, then i would be going straight back, but when the feedback email comes through for using them ill make a note on there.
> 
> ...


Advise on what though?
Several people have asked if anything has happened and you have not confirmed anything.

As OCD as you may be if there was problem you'd be all over this by now if there was something wrong.

You can't really contact them 3days later with, WTF you washed my car.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Actually... re-reading this thread I reckon the OP has every right to something. I reckon he should call the cops... maybe not 999 but at least 101 since it's not an emergency. 

If they won't do anything write to your local paper and MP.

I mean, at the end of the day they did something he asked them not to do and it's had absolutely no effect on anything. He's definitely entitled to something for the really terrible nothing that happened.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Next time on the job sheet put "if car is washed, service is free" :thumb:


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

bidderman1969 said:


> Next time on the job sheet put "if car is washed, service is free" :thumb:


Like that one :lol:


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