# Apple Mac users



## Mark J (May 10, 2007)

I'm considering a new computer as my pc, faithful as it has been, is now starting to **** me off. I've never owned a Mac but do quite like the look of them (I know, looks aren't everything!) so, my question to Mac users is, what are the pros (& cons) of owning one.

TIA,

Mark.


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## EddieB (May 13, 2006)

I've had mine a year and it's never crashed. Think my work laptop crashes everyday and I got them roughly at the same time! 

I didn't really notice a difference swapping between PC and Mac but all I use it for is for Music/Photos/Internet Mac seems to do the job well.

I am sure you will get some far more educated responses!


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## winrya (Aug 4, 2006)

pro's;

really fast
simple
rarely crash
mac s/w in os is very simple but very powerful
look amazing
photoshop cs3 runs like a dream

cons

expensive
not all the little s/w freebies work with mac os
not many games
when first learning the os you try everything before realising the almost too simple solution is correct
You get really really annoyed every time you use a windows machine

Get one, one of my best purchases:argie:


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

Pros are the lack of spyware, malware, and viruses (beyond proof of concept stuff) and the fact that by and large things do "just work".

Also the BSD underpinnings plus some good power management mean you can literally just leave the thing on all the time but have it sleep and be invisible when you're not using it.

You'll typically have far more applications running at any given time on OS X than you would Windows as, due to the interface, it's much easier to simply hide the stuff you're not using without it getting in the way down on the Taskbar.

Also eye candy, sorry but it does play a part IMO.

Cons are price. I think the Mac Mini's and iMacs are pretty good value personally, the laptops do seem expensive if you just want something basic for web surfing and email/light office duties. The flip side is that Macs typically have a longer useful life and fetch more second hand etc.

There's less and less that can only be done on a PC, but if you have money invested in software licenses you're looking at either new software, or Bootcamp or Fusion/Parallels to run Windows on the Mac.

Ultimately if you aren't using anything intensive, or that specifically requires a Mac/OS X then if you look at it in pure "what do I get for my money" terms it's hard to justify one over a £299 Dell in terms of functionality, it's more the lack of hassle that pays for itself.

Best thing to do would be to pop down an Apple store on a weekday when it's fairly quiet and just spend some time having a proper look at one and see what you think.


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## Mark J (May 10, 2007)

> Best thing to do would be to pop down an Apple store on a weekday when it's fairly quiet and just spend some time having a proper look at one and see what you think.


I think you're right 

....and thank you for the replies chaps:thumb:


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Echo everything said above - they are _much_ nicer and user friendly to use and it's true that they very rarely crash. Photoshop (and other design/graphics s/w) does run faster and smoother on Macs than PC - my old iMac (original design) still runs Photoshop faster than my brand new all-singing-all-dancing Windows Laptop and it's only got a quarter of the power.


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## Mark J (May 10, 2007)

I have an old-ish version of Photoshop (licenced) will that run on one, or am I looking at buying again (sorry but I know zip about Macs


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

It depends. 

I know zip about Photoshop but I think some versions came with dual platform media/licenses and some were platform specific.

If yours is Windows specific then it won't run on OS X, it will run if you install Windows on a Mac.

You may be able to get Adobe to swap the license from Windows to OS X, but it's only something I've heard of, no experience of it.


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Is the Macbook Pro screen that much better than the Macbook?


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## BigLeegr (Feb 28, 2008)

I have an older mac. Only issue ever is the hard drive died. Otherwise flawless performance. So much more user friendly. This would be the computer I would suggest for a persons first computer. 
But yes, they are fairly expensive by comparison. And there aren't as many programs/peripherals for a mac as a PC, but that is becoming less so as long as you aren't looking at the bottom of the line cheapest stuff.


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## wolliwuk (Feb 11, 2008)

Macs all the way for me I have three of them and use them every day all day in my business.

They are almost bomb proof. The only thing I keep my PC laptop for is my accounts program (no good ones on the Mac)

I used to spend loads of time each week keeping all the malware, spyware etc at bay and since I have started using a Mac I now use all that time to move the business forward.

Some people have said they are expensive which yes initially they may be but they work straight out of the box and they are reliable, a lot of the shareware programs written for Macs is of a much higher standard than that written for PC's therefore can save you some money. 

Most of the programs you need are already included in the operating system.

I used to be constantly spending a small fortune upgrading my PC's with this bit and that bit but have found with my Macs I have never had to buy anything so they may be expensive initially but in the long run they are more economical. 

As the Mac will also run windows you could conceivably run your older version of Photoshop on it

Hope that helps to convert you to the Dark Side :devil:


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## Mossman (Jan 10, 2008)

Mark,

All I can say is that you will never look back. (Full disclosure - I am a Mac evangelist) :thumb: I have 5 Macs at the moment and I would never, ever go back to a PC.

People have mentioned a lot of the pros and some possible cons, but the biggest one for me is the ease of use and the enjoyment of use. Everything does, just work!  So much easier to get things done, the user interface is brilliant and you find a smile on your face when you notice all the thought and work gone into the OS.

The community and support available is superb and loads of great apps. I would be very happy to talk you through any questions and purchase ideas. Send me a Pm if you need to.

Honestly, a few weeks down the line, you will be kicking yourself and saying, "why didn't I get one before?!" 

Cheers!

Jon


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## stevie_b (Dec 14, 2005)

Don't think the Macbook screen is much better but it is bigger, 15" or 17" instead of 13. I've got an iMac and a Mac Mini, sis has iMac, other half has MacBook. All absolutely great, really easy to use and more intuitive than Windows.

As for software there are equivalents of most PC programs out there just may need searching down if you need something special. 

Not sure about Photoshop I suspect you would need to buy a new copy. The versions prior to CS3 for the Mac will run pretty slowly as they were designed for the pre-Intel models. CS3 is supposed to be a lot better but it's expensive!


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## Macko (May 6, 2007)

Making the switch was the best decision I ever made. Everything just works, no registry issues, no viruses, no blue screen of death, no driver issues. 

I could never go back to a Microsoft based system.


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## aldunn15 (Jan 25, 2008)

I love my mac and so will u i will never go to PC eva again!


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## Mossman (Jan 10, 2008)

Great to see so many Mac fanboys here!  :lol: :thumb:


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## Mark J (May 10, 2007)

*OK, OK ! Sheesh, I'll get one !* :lol:



> I would be very happy to talk you through any questions and purchase ideas. Send me a Pm if you need to.


Cheers, Jon, I may just take you up on that :thumb:


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## Mossman (Jan 10, 2008)

Mark, anytime, I tend to be the unofficial Apple resource with clients and friends! 

Where are you purchasing from? Can you get someone who is in education to buy it? (You then get a discount). Depending on what you get, do consider Applecare - well worth having for peace of mind. Don't bother buying extra Apple RAM - very expensive - get it elsewhere, preferably from the states!

Fire away with any questions!

Jon


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## Mark J (May 10, 2007)

Cheers, Jon - it will be a few weeks yet, finances dictate!


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## ahaydock (Jan 4, 2007)

Most of it has been said, but I am a confident PC user but switched to Macs about 6 years ago and have never looked back - you wont regret it :thumb:


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## Astro (Dec 4, 2005)

I'm an Apple fan, once you have stopped thinking Windows you will never regret it. Sure things are a little different but they dont take long to learn and become second nature. Go for it!


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## Mark J (May 10, 2007)

The seed has been planted ! 

She dragged me round the Trafford Centre for most of this afternoon, so her punishment was nearly an hour in the Apple store ! 

I gave it the works, explaining how we (I) needed one, all done through little lost puppy eyes of course! :thumb:

End result? Well, I got a "we'll see" response, which as you are all aware, is the full on go ahead - isn't it ?


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Mark J said:


> The seed has been planted !
> 
> She dragged me round the Trafford Centre for most of this afternoon, so her punishment was nearly an hour in the Apple store !
> 
> ...


:lol: :lol: Oh yeah, - that's as good as saying 'where's the checkout point' :thumb:


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## Mark J (May 10, 2007)

Pit Viper said:


> :lol: :lol: Oh yeah, - that's as good as saying 'where's the checkout point' :thumb:


Exactly ! I'll re-open negotiations tomorrow


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## Mr Ben (Mar 7, 2008)

For the first week you'll be cursing it because nothing is where you look for it, but once you stop thinking 'Windows' it all makes sense 

If its just for home use it will pretty much come with all the software you'll need too. There seems to be less freeware available compared to windows but a lot of very good small software companies putting out cheap (£20/£30) software that is excellent.

There are loads of nice touches in OS X that make Windows seem like its years behind. Did they show you exposé? - if not ask about it when you are in an Apple shop next. So simple but so, so useful!

What sort of things do you want to use it for?


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## Mark J (May 10, 2007)

Just basic stuff really, net, mail, word processing, but the main thing will be photography, post-processing etc, which is why I was enquiring about Photoshop.

However, if I ........I mean WHEN I get one () it will be mine and mine alone, son and daughter won't be allowed anywhere near it nor the wife (except to keep it clean! )



> Did they show you exposé?


The guy mentioned it when I was asking him about viewing multiple 'windows' if I recall correctly - I didn't really take much notice as I was trying to wipe my saliva off the screen at the time  I presume it's a window switching thing ?


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Spaces is what he was referring, in all probability. One of the various new touches Leopard (OS X.5) brought to the table.
Let the kids and wife use it - separate accounts, and no viruses/trojans to worry about.
You can also restrict which applications they're allowed to access as well.
If you can afford it, go with the 24" iMac, and mention you've children at school - educational discount of 7-8%, iirc.
And get at least 2GB RAM, but not pre-installed - you can remove and replace the RAM with ease, and stick some Crucial sticks in.
Well worth the £60 or so it'll cost for 2 sticks nowadays.


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## Mark J (May 10, 2007)

> If you can afford it, go with the 24" iMac


Thats what I'm hankering after :argie:



> mention you've children at school - educational discount of 7-8%, iirc.


Cool ! :thumb:



> Let the kids and wife use it


No ! 

Thanks for your input, it's appreciated :thumb:


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## Mr Ben (Mar 7, 2008)

For word processing look at iWork - much cheaper than word/office (about £50 I think).

If you can, get the new version of photoshop (CS3). Its optermised for the intel processor and I find it much faster than CS2 on the same machine (Mac Mini at home and a MacPro at work  ). Depending on the type of photo processing you are doing you might be better of with Aperture or Lightroom.

I'd say 2Gb RAM is the min you want for OS X these days.

Exposé will: tile all the windows that are open (then click on the one you want and it comes to the front, title all the windows open in the application you are using or hide all the windows so you can see the desktop (F9, F10 & F11 on the old mac kb - not sure on the new one). Dead useful i.e. hit f11 to get to the desktop. pick up a file hit F9 to tile all the windows you have open, move the mouse over the window you want to drop the file in. Hit F9 again to bring it to the front and activate it then drop the file in to the new window  Simple. And very frustrating on a PC when you can't do it.


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## Mark J (May 10, 2007)

They had Aperture running on the machine I was playing with in-store, I have to say it was quite impressive.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

For MS Office alternatives, iWork is fine, but don't overlook Open Office, nor Mariner Write and Calc (Word/Excel).
For PS3 alternative, take a look at GraphicConverter.


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## Galley (Sep 13, 2007)

Got my MacBook nearly a year ago and all i can say is WOW!!!!
Apple all the way
:argie: :argie: :argie: :argie:


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## Mark J (May 10, 2007)

*Good news, bad news......*

Bad news: The wife's been made redundant 

Good news: She's getting a half decent wedge out of it :thumb:

Let the grovelling begin...


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## Mossman (Jan 10, 2008)

Sorry to hear that Mark - always a chance for something better!! 

Mmmmmm iMac 24" with max Ram!


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

I've got a macbook (santa rosa) and have just ordered a macbook pro (penryn) 

I'd never go back to PC's.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

20" iMac 2.16 ghz here + extra 19" Eizo monitor :thumb:

hate having to go back to my PC's these days 

Aperture 2.0 is superb for the serious photographers out there


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## winrya (Aug 4, 2006)

Bigpikle said:


> hate having to go back to my PC's these days


Lol, I'm famous at work now for moaning at my pc. Slow, crashing, and long winded in everything it does. Thats the problem with macs, when you dont know any better, windows is fine, but now, everyday at work it torment


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## Mossman (Jan 10, 2008)

LOL with winrya! I know what you mean! I could never use Windoze now for work or at home. Luckily I now work for myself and so have the luxury of using Macs all the time!


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

I have, in no particular order,

Apeture 2
Final Cut Pro
Logic Pro
Adobe Go Live 9
Office 2008

And a spattering of other apps. With those things, I could be a recording artist, photographer, film-maker, and runner-of-a-business (that I am!) and would need nothing more.


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## Mark J (May 10, 2007)

Well, after some *serious* ass kissing.................










Sorry about the poor pic, but it's just balanced on a small coffee table for now, while I had my initial 'play' with it!

Good grief, it's a marvellous bit of kit - soooo much to learn 

Brace yerself, Jon!  :wave:


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## Mossman (Jan 10, 2008)

Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :thumb: :lol:


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## swisstony (Apr 27, 2007)

Congratulations on the purchase...snap 

I have been a mac user now for about 20 years and believe me when I say you are going to love it. Run a mac reseller business and although I use both systems, the mac wins out everytime.

any questions, feel free to ask :thumb:


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## stargazer (Aug 9, 2006)

winrya said:


> pro's;
> 
> really fast
> simple
> ...


I couldn't have put it better myself^^

*Quite Simply the Swissvax of computers*


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## Banacheq (Oct 4, 2007)

How could you turn your back on your PC brethren? Where's your loyalty?

I can't believe you've all been fooled by Mr. Jobs and his shiny baubles.

All kidding aside, I've spent my entire professional career (20 years) on PCs. In all that time I've had to spend a very small amount of time on a Mac and I hated every minute of it. I experienced more crashes in my short time on the Mac than I ever did on a PC. Maybe we got a lemon, I don't know, but it was enough to keep me from considering them for quite a long time. Oh, and one of my work colleagues and all-time least favorite people (an a$$hole in every sense of the word) was a Mac fanatic.

This was some time ago, and much has changed on both platforms. I haven't moved to Vista yet, so I can't speak to that, but I can say that this is the most stable PC I've ever had. Every computer has the occasional lockup, crash, odd behavior, etc., but this one is rock solid and it's 3 years old.

I would say there were more compelling reasons to switch from PC to Mac about 10 years ago, at least in my industry (multimedia/web development) than there are today. Any gap in quality and platform advantages has shrunk so much that it just comes down to personal preference as far as I'm concerned.

With 10 PCs in my house right now (5 that I built myself) it's safe to say that a switch is not in my near future. Actually I'll probably get a Mac mini for compatibility testing on a large project coming up, but I'll do my best not to like it. :thumb: 

Good luck with the switch. New toys are always fun even if they take a little getting used to.


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## stargazer (Aug 9, 2006)

We have approx 10 PC's in the office and Two Macs. One of which is in constant use. Operating system is 10.4 Very stable indeed. As for all the other PC's well they seem to be not as reliable. Whether that's down to their op system who knows. From a design industry point of view though you can't beat macs


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Very nice indeed, I'm holding out in hope that they will release a Macbook Pro with a Quad core later in the year and fingers crossed it'll support 8 GB of RAM and then I'm in.


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## swisstony (Apr 27, 2007)

Neil_S said:


> Very nice indeed, I'm holding out in hope that they will release a Macbook Pro with a Quad core later in the year and fingers crossed it'll support 8 GB of RAM and then I'm in.


http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/index.cfm?newsid=20933

you may have your wish soon


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## Mark J (May 10, 2007)

Quick update:

I've had it a week now and the verdict so far is :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: 


I absolutely love it! Obviously I'm still finding my way round it at the moment, slowly but surely, I'm getting used to how things differ from a windows pc.
Thanks must to to Jon (Mossman on here) for his help and advice even if it did take me forever to sus out iChat   - cheers Jon and I'm sure it's not the last you've heard from me :thumb: 

Favourite points so far? The display is mindblowingly gorgeous:thumb: Lack of towers/cables etc:thumb: Speed and connectivity straight out of the box was amazing :thumb: 

All in all I'm very impressed and would recommend anyone thinking of trying a Mac for the first time to just do it, you won't regret it.


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## Mossman (Jan 10, 2008)

Pleasure to help Mark 

Having helped switch 6 people in the last 12 months, every one, has said, why didn't I do this before!


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## dsolds (Feb 13, 2008)

Neil_S said:


> Very nice indeed, I'm holding out in hope that they will release a Macbook Pro with a Quad core later in the year and fingers crossed it'll support 8 GB of RAM and then I'm in.


Is MAC OS 64 bit then? I thought it was based on BSD 32 bit..... in which case 8GB of RAM won't be addressed natively.

Last MAC I had was a G4 "Toaster". Great for photoshop. Crap for everything else. Mind you, that was 8 years ago and things will have moved on a bit I'm guessing. I might dip my toe again based on how many people seem to love them nowadays.

Does anyone know if Leopard will run under VMWARE ?? If so I might "liberate" a copy to try...


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Leopard is 64 bit and the Mac Pro can have up to 32 GB of memory IIRC, just fingers crossed on the laptop now.

EMC have / are developing VMWare for mac, I use VMWare Workstation on XP, but I think it's called VMWare Mac on Mac


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

VMWare or other virtualisation is the reason I want the memory, I need to run things like DB2, WebSphere, Tivoli Directory Server, Process Server on the same box ideally, that consumes masses of RAM


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

swisstony said:


> Its called VMWare Fusion.I run it at home on my 24" iMac and it runs just fine :thumb:


Does it use the same format files as Workstation do you know?

i.e. vmdk, vmem, vmsd etc.

I should hope it does.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

VMWare Fusion - and it is very good, but not just quite as good as rebooting and running XP natively.


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## swisstony (Apr 27, 2007)

Neil_S said:


> Does it use the same format files as Workstation do you know?
> 
> i.e. vmdk, vmem, vmsd etc.
> 
> I should hope it does.


Sorry, the fusion side is mac only. You are talking about running MacOS on a PC arent you ??


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

swisstony said:


> Sorry, the fusion side is mac only. You are talking about running MacOS on a PC arent you ??


I'm talking about the virtual machines files used by the product.

VMWare Workstation creates those file extensions I mentioned previously, does Fusion use these file extensions too?

i.e. could I copy a virtual machine across used on VMWare Workstation on XP and have it work with Fusion on a Mac?


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Neil_S said:


> I'm talking about the virtual machines files used by the product.
> 
> VMWare Workstation creates those file extensions I mentioned previously, does Fusion use these file extensions too?
> 
> i.e. could I copy a virtual machine across used on VMWare Workstation on XP and have it work with Fusion on a Mac?


"Installing Windows has never been easier, thanks to the Windows Easy Install feature in VMware Fusion. Just answer a few simple questions and insert your Windows installation disc-VMware Fusion will automatically create a Windows virtual machine that is optimized for your Mac. _You can also use the New Virtual Machine Assistant to create virtual machines that can run Windows, Linux, BSD or any of the more than 60 different operating systems supported by VMware Fusion._"

"Only VMware Fusion can use the full 16 GB of memory available with the Mac Pro and Xserve, giving you the ability to run a large number of virtual machines at the same time."

"*I already have VMware Workstation, VMware Server and VMware Infrastructure. Can I use those virtual machines with VMware Fusion?*
Yes, VMware virtual machines are fully compatible across the product line. So virtual machines created with Workstation, Server or VMware Infrastructure can run on VMware Fusion.

*Can I use virtual machines created with VMware Fusion with VMware Workstation, VMware Server, VMware Player and VMware Infrastructure?*
VMware virtual machines created with VMware Fusion are fully compatible with VMware's latest products including VMware Workstation 6.0, VMware ACE 2.0, and VMware Player 2.0."

All easily found and read on www.vmware.com product section.


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Thanks PJS, thats all I needed to know


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## dsolds (Feb 13, 2008)

I did it the other way around....VMware on XP with a MAC VM. Winders on 't left and MAC on 't right. Works like a dream.


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## Mossman (Jan 10, 2008)

That's very impressive  Just ditch XP now


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## Paul_W (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm still waiting for a headless mac to be released. The Mac Mini is too low spec, Mac pro too ott, and the fact that I already have a nice 22" samsung tft makes an imac uneconomical. I'm sure there's a lot of potential switchers that feel the same.


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## darbyweb (Aug 20, 2007)

I've just joined the Mac ranks too  

Bought a Mac Mini to run OSXBMC as my HTPC front end - and i must say i'm very impressed...

I'm currently streaming DVD's across my networks and displaying at 720p - though i shall be trying 1080i shortly. The Mini seems to have enough grunt for my purposes.

Had a book recommended to me 'Beyond to Manual Leopard OSX', just waiting for that so i can get my head around the rest of OSX. 

So i now have 1 x Mac vs 6 x PC's vs 1 x Linux PDA at Home. Will the be the start of a change ????




Dean.


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## jez13 (Apr 14, 2008)

How did you get OSX to run in VMWare? Got two macs at home but forced to use Windows in work :-( Got VMWare workstation 6 running in work but couldn't get it to recognize the osx dvd!


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## Paul_W (Feb 11, 2006)

jez13 said:


> How did you get OSX to run in VMWare? Got two macs at home but forced to use Windows in work :-( Got VMWare workstation 6 running in work but couldn't get it to recognize the osx dvd!


I wouldn't bother. Performance is terrible.


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## fjs (May 12, 2006)

Apple have only just licensed OS X to run on VMWare. You can now run multiple instances of OSX Server. 

There is a Tiger image in the wild, which boots through FreeBSD to overcome the licence restriction. It is virtually unusable -- too slow.

The same is true of Parallels.

The problem with virtualization is that any chip pre Penryn does not fully support it in microcode IIRC. There is a major performance penalty, and things - like Rosetta - start failing for some reason.


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## benji330i (Jan 8, 2007)

I've had a macbook for 2 years now and will never buy a PC again. Mint.


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