# Public Liability Insurance.



## svended (Oct 7, 2011)

Hi, I don't know if this is posted in the correct section.

But after an incident last week when washing a friend's car the electrics packed in, the water is believed to of gotten in via front passenger wheelarch. Now I don't know what to do with regards to sorting out.

But what I want to know is how much would insurance cost for public liability?

Sorry it's vaig.

But will answer any when I finish work in the morning.


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## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

If you want an insurance to cover the cost of repairing a car if you damage it, public liability isn't what you need. Sounds like you need some kind of professional indemnity insurance.


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

As Johnny said, PLI wouldn't cover this, you need insurance which includes 'items worked on' which is a lot more expensive than PLI.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

It will come under Public Liability Insurance, but most policies will exclude this type of damage. 

Our "Gold" and "Platinum" options under our scheme, as well as having a specific business description for valeters & detailers, extend to cover damage to items worked upon. They also cover "service indemnity", an example of which would be a customer having an accident due the electrics failing as a result of you damaging them. 

Further details are in our section on the site. You don't mention if you do this as a hobby or a profession though. You can only get Public Liability Insurance if you are operating a legitimate business for profit, eg self employed etc. 

Incidentally, Professional Indemnity is an errors or ommssions insurance to protect you against advice given for a fee, usually for occupations such as consultants, design engineers, solicitors etc, so is not really needed for valeting unless of course you are charging for advice and there is a risk of injury or damage as a result of the advice given.


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## svended (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheers guys. Hi Shiny. I do it as a hobby I don't charge as it's something I enjoy doing for friends and family. This occassion after doing letterally hundreds of cars since I left school have never had a problem but the electrics started doing there own thing when I cleaned an 04 plate Renault Megane Cabriolet, according to the garage it looks as if some water got in from the front passenger wheel arch. I've since found it's had a couple of electrical issues namely a battery not holding charge, however the owner is leaning towards me paying the £500 for the new module (under the battery) and diagnosis costs, and as I can't prove it definately wasn't me, looks like I'll be paying.

Won't be doing friends cars anymore other than the seven that I do or a regular basis. Just not worth the bum clenching moments, but thought I'd look at what insurances I would be able to have as a 'weekend warrior' on friends cars. 

I don't want to give it up again entirely, but this has knocked me a bit.

Shiny, I've requested a quote and hope to speak sometime later this week if possible. Thanks in advance.


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

Did he lean on you to do it too? Without trying to sound cynical the word Renault jumped out at me and I associated it with French and then electrics. Are you sure he isn't trying to point the finger for an on going problem? My other halfs last car had so many electrical gremlins it was un real. They would appear from no where. Peugeot...


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## svended (Oct 7, 2011)

'She's' wanted it doing for three months nearly, but with weather and other cars just only been able to do it last friday. I don't know whats happening, it's a minefield. Some of her friends reckon she's playing me and jointly our friends tell me the battery wasn't holding charge, etc...

This is why I don't do people and would rather be left with a car and get on. 

Just want to get it sorted and forget about it but have my back covered in future as a precaution.


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

svended said:


> Cheers guys. Hi Shiny. I do it as a hobby I don't charge as it's something I enjoy doing for friends and family. This occassion after doing letterally hundreds of cars since I left school have never had a problem but the electrics started doing there own thing when I cleaned an 04 plate Renault Megane Cabriolet, according to the garage it looks as if some water got in from the front passenger wheel arch. I've since found it's had a couple of electrical issues namely a battery not holding charge, however the owner is leaning towards me paying the £500 for the new module (under the battery) and diagnosis costs, and as I can't prove it definately wasn't me, looks like I'll be paying.
> 
> Won't be doing friends cars anymore other than the seven that I do or a regular basis. Just not worth the bum clenching moments, but thought I'd look at what insurances I would be able to have as a 'weekend warrior' on friends cars.


Hi mate sorry but there's no way in hell that they can make you pay that £500. It's rained since (heavily sometimes!!) and they can not single-handledly put the blame on you or your washing. It could be a large puddle the customer has driven though?!?
So I'd tell them to buzz off. They couldn't even take you to a court or something..
In order to be held financially responsible they have to 100% prove it was you and even then, there's not really any legal onus on you to pay especially when there's no receipts and washing a car would not reasonably be expected to cause damage on a modern vehicle.
Cheers and keep on washing:buffer:'!


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## Porkypig (Jun 20, 2012)

If you are doing it for free for a freind then you don't need insurance as the guys at coversure have said, you need to be running as a business to get liability and indemnity insurance cover.

Your issue is with 'good faith' really, and by the sounds of it you are being had. I would politely point out that she already had issues with electrics and wether or not you had cleaned her car for her, for free, as requested, she would still have issues with it as rain water will have been getting in constantly, especially under the wheel arch. Have renault, will need repairing....

What is it that the garage is saying is actually wrong? The module that is under the battery? How do you get suffiecient water in to blow the module, and how long has the water been gettiing in? Is there sufficient rust to suggest this has been happening for some time? 

Afetr all said and done tell her she NEEDS TO PROVE IT!! She can't.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

I've replied to your email Sven. As mentioned, you have to be operating a legitimate business to qualify for Public Liability Insurance.

In this case, even if you were a business, your Insurers would only ever pay a claim for which you are legally liable for the damage caused. As mentioned, your friend will need to prove that the water ingress was a direct result of you washing the car and that you had been negligent in doing so. 

As it stands though, as a favour from a mate, then the friend also risks the consequences of things not going right. There is no contract between you and therefore i will imagine that proving you negligent/legally liable will be a very difficult thing for her to do.

All you have to face is the moral dilemma, either tell her to go spin (don't even offer to contribute - worse thing you can do if she decides the pursue you for the whole lot) or cough up the £500 for the sake of remaining friends.

Personally i'd take the "go spin" option, if a mate of mine did me a favour and something went wrong, i'd be too embarrassed to even tell him. The fact that she is trying to hold you responsible doesn't make her much of a mate to me.

If she wanted a job without risk, then she should have paid the going rate to a professional with the appropriate insurance in force (this of course being one of our own superb Liability policies ). Then she would still have had a battle on her hands trying to prove negligence and getting the Insurers to cough up because it "may" have been down to the car being cleaned.


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## svended (Oct 7, 2011)

I've started to relax a little, finances are sorted should the need arise, but we also work together (her twilight shift, me nightshift, ten minute crossover) and would rather not have the whole awkwardness of everything. Really wish I'd never gone near the flipping car.


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## svended (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheers Lloyd.

All comments appreciated guys and gals. Lets see what happens I guess.


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

svended said:


> I've started to relax a little, finances are sorted should the need arise, but we also work together (her twilight shift, me nightshift, ten minute crossover) and would rather not have the whole awkwardness of everything. Really wish I'd never gone near the flipping car.


It's not awkward at all.
It wasn't your fault. You were not singlehandedly to blame. Washing a car will NOT cause any issues.
If it does there are underlying issues anyway for which you are not responsible.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I had this when I done my mates civic... been washing cars for years, and when I finished her detail the engine management light kept coming on... 

I searched high and low for reasons... dried everything out, but in the end decided to come clean and tell her...

Oh, it does that all the time was the reply... I nearly killed her! :lol::lol::lol: :wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:

Does make you think though... and worry.... it's all good doing favours for mates, and only getting beer/bourbon in return... but if something goes KABLAMO........

:thumb:


@Shiny Lloyd... do you guys do part time cover?!?! and do you consider beer a rate of pay for a "professional"?!?!?! 

:thumb:


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

I only get paid beer tokens here in the office, and i'm supposed to be a professional Broker.. 

Part timers, weekend warriors etc are all fine on our scheme, but it has to be a legitimate business operating for profit, declaring earnings etc, so unfortunately beer tokens don't count.

I like the idea though, on the rare occasions i do other people's cars (mainly the odd scratch removal with a pre advised warning that i could potentially make things worse :thumb i never take any money, but if someone wants to buy me a cider as a thank you, i'm happy to oblige.

If we all worked for beer and favours, right up to bank managers and government officials, the world would be a much nicer place. Time to move to a commune...


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

beer tokens run the world! :lol:

Cheers! 

:thumb:


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

xJay1337 said:


> Hi mate sorry but there's no way in hell that they can make you pay that £500. It's rained since (heavily sometimes!!) and they can not single-handledly put the blame on you or your washing. It could be a large puddle the customer has driven though?!?
> So I'd tell them to buzz off. They couldn't even take you to a court or something..
> In order to be held financially responsible they have to *100% prove* it was you and even then, there's not really any legal onus on you to pay especially when there's no receipts and washing a car would not reasonably be expected to cause damage on a modern vehicle.
> Cheers and keep on washing:buffer:'!


While I agree with your sentiment and refusal to pay the highlighted bit is not true - if it was a criminal investigation e.g. she took the car away and the brakes failed and died it would have to be proved 'beyond reasonable doubt' (not quite 100%) but as this would be a civil matter it only has to be proved 'on the balance of probability' (51% if you wanted to put a number on it).

However are you were washing the wheel arches you're not really subjecting it to anything worse than going through a puddle at speed.


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## Glaschu (Sep 16, 2012)

You'd think, being a Renault 'n' all and involving electrics that this would be a common fault and all over Google, but its not.

I reckon she's gone to the garage, shown them the fault and told them it has just been washed and they've spotted the opportunity to relieve her of £500.

I'd be asking for a second opinion, from a Renault dealer if the first garage wasn't one, as this sounds like  to me....


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