# Car battery AH rating



## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Just wondering if the AH output on car batteries is that important.
Got a new battery (lion) 70ah from Eurocarparts in April 2019 after the original on the car 2011 Insignia let me down. The battery was OK to start with but struggled/weak turnover a couple of times after towing the caravan. At first I thought maybe caravan electrics were at fault however only used lights on the van last time out with no 12v fridge etc and still the same. Then last few weeks with colder weather I noticed turnover on first start was getting weaker. Had to jump start it once last week and again this morning. Starts perfectly when jumping it and fine for rest of the day.
Waiting on an email from ECP as battery has a 3yr warranty, green ball is showing in it. No lights on car to indicate alternator issues. 
Looking on ECP there are 70ah or 80 ah for my car so thinking do I need to go up to 80ah? Could just be unlucky with this battery though and straight replacement might be ok.


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## RaceGlazer (Jan 10, 2007)

Batteries take a heavy drain at this time of year so if youre running things like defrost, a/c and lights on short runs you'll need to get a conditioner on it


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

RaceGlazer said:


> Batteries take a heavy drain at this time of year so if youre running things like defrost, a/c and lights on short runs you'll need to get a conditioner on it


Conditioner?(just googled it) Not short runs either, typical day for me at moment is journey's of 70/80mile minimum. Car is never sat unused as well.


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## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

Darlofan said:


> Conditioner?(just googled it) Not short runs either, typical day for me at moment is journey's of 70/80mile minimum. Car is never sat unused as well.


In that case, you shouldn't need a conditioner. As long as you don't have anything causing a drain on the battery while it's standing, I would have thought you have a good case for a warranty claim. Check out, I think it's called Parasitic drain videos on Youtube if you have a Multimeter, or someone posted a thread in the last year or so.


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## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

More info here;

https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=418224


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

They will test your battery normally
More Ampere hours (Ah) doesn’t mean it has more power, it means it can deliver power for longer.
So with a 80 ah battery you can turn the engine longer over than a 70 ah battery.
For higher performance you need to look at the CC ( cold cranking amps) 
Before changing the battery check if it’s not the clamps being dirty or loose, wiring in good condition (earth the the engine block get weak sometimes) check if your alternator charges properly (a quick test in the dark, start the engine and put all the big users on, main beam, rear window defroster, and so on, the revs should be dropping, if you rev it up, the lights should go brighter) and make sure your starter motor is in good condition.
Quick check, if it turn over slowly, but a jump pack or another battery and if it turn over fine than your starter motor is most likely not the cause of the issue. 

Some of the new batteries seem to last only 3 years. We changing batteries forever on certain trucks and buses.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Caledoniandream said:


> They will test your battery normally
> More Ampere hours (Ah) doesn't mean it has more power, it means it can deliver power for longer.
> So with a 80 ah battery you can turn the engine longer over than a 70 ah battery.
> For higher performance you need to look at the CC ( cold cranking amps)
> ...


Reading that it could be the starter then as jumping it starts first crank. Why would that be though? Cos there's 2 batteries not one providing power?


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Rakti said:


> More info here;
> 
> https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=418224


Reading that thread and strangely I commented in it back in January about mine having this issue(scary as I have no recollection of that!!!). Seems like my car doesn't like cold weather!!


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

Darlofan said:


> Reading that it could be the starter then as jumping it starts first crank. Why would that be though? Cos there's 2 batteries not one providing power?


If it does turn over rapidly with a jump pack than your starter is probably fine, if it doesn't than I would look at the starter.
Check wiring and especially at the clamps, sometimes it's worth to replace the clamps, especially if they feel warm directly after starting.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

The chemistry of lithium Ion batteries or rather Lithium Ion Phosphate which is most common for automobile use does not perform well when cold. In fact the Lithium Ion Polymer batteries most commonly used in radio controlled models perform best when pre heated to 80°F to 100°F.

Without going out to the car with a hairdryer all you can do is turn on the lights and don't try and start the car for a couple of minutes. The chemical reaction will cause the battery to warm up.

Lithium batteries generally have a lower Ah rate compared to lead acid but have the same CCA.

If the battery is not getting charged properly especially after towing a van then you ought to have the alternator and regulator checked out.

Do not use a normal charger on a lithium battery as it will kill it. You need to make sure it is specifically made for lithium.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Caledoniandream said:


> If it does turn over rapidly with a jump pack than your starter is probably fine, if it doesn't than I would look at the starter.
> Check wiring and especially at the clamps, sometimes it's worth to replace the clamps, especially if they feel warm directly after starting.


Sorry, I misread your first post and thought you said could be starter!



Andy from Sandy said:


> The chemistry of lithium Ion batteries or rather Lithium Ion Phosphate which is most common for automobile use does not perform well when cold. In fact the Lithium Ion Polymer batteries most commonly used in radio controlled models perform best when pre heated to 80°F to 100°F.
> 
> Without going out to the car with a hairdryer all you can do is turn on the lights and don't try and start the car for a couple of minutes. The chemical reaction will cause the battery to warm up.
> 
> ...


What happened to a simple battery? Like in the olden days:wall:


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

Cold cranking amps is where it is at as has been mentioned above.

Like many things these days I suspect batteries are not built to last the same way they used to be and will give up the ghost in a shorter time than you may expect. Some brands/models are better than others but you will have to ask and pay for them accordingly.

Bad earths or clamps are a classic in many cars, so worth checking but often hidden away these days.


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## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

Darlofan,
Does your Insignia have Stop/Start?


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Rakti said:


> Darlofan,
> Does your Insignia have Stop/Start?


No, it doesn't.


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## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

Darlofan said:


> No, it doesn't.


Right. So you can't have fitted an underspec battery then (as long as 70ah was what was in before).

(Stop Start needs an EFB or AGM battery which give several times more starts than a standard Lead Acid battery)


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Had multimeter on it today as its been sat for 2 days. 12v showing and 14/15v with engine running.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Most likely the battery is knackered, Lion batteries are not very good. Stick with Varta.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

SteveTDCi said:


> Most likely the battery is knackered, Lion batteries are not very good. Stick with Varta.


Will look into Varta. Thanks

ECP have emailed saying take it back to the shop and they will test it and exchange if faulty. Will call tomorrow to see if that involves a quick in store test or send away job.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

> Lion batteries are not very good.


The technology is good just a bad application in the harsh environment of dealing with cold weather when you want a reliable technology.

Power tools seem to work well using them.


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## LeeH (Jan 29, 2006)

Andy from Sandy said:


> The technology is good just a bad application in the harsh environment of dealing with cold weather when you want a reliable technology.
> 
> Power tools seem to work well using them.


Lion is a brand.

Li-ion is a battery technology type.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

LeeH said:


> Lion is a brand.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Didn't know that, thought it stood for Lithium Ion?


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## LeeH (Jan 29, 2006)

Li-ion 

Lion is a budget brand by ECP. 

I presume all traditional vehicles are still on lead acid. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

Darlofan said:


> Will look into Varta. Thanks
> 
> ECP have emailed saying take it back to the shop and they will test it and exchange if faulty. Will call tomorrow to see if that involves a quick in store test or send away job.


There are other good brands out there. Generally a case of you get what you pay for with car batteries.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Euros usually test and exchange, they don't really bother testing them charged and then rested. We have gone from 0 batteries over the past few months to 8 in the last 2 weeks.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Rakti said:


> There are other good brands out there. Generally a case of you get what you pay for with car batteries.


Looking on cp4less there is Varta silver at £100 with the always on sale code! 5yr warranty(won't have car that long) 760 cold cranking compared to 640/668 on Varta blue and Lion brands.
Will see how it goes with warranty on mine and upgrade.


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

@Darlofan

Tayna batteries have some offers on various batteries at the mo, including Varta's
https://www.tayna.co.uk/

May be worth a look buddy if you have no joy with ECP :thumb:


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## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

Was just about to recommend Tayna; BH beat me to it. Tayna's USP is probably next day delivery (not saying others don't).

Do you know what type number your battery is; three digits like 100, 075, 096? Or, if you input Reg in the Tayna search thing, it'll tell you.

I got my battery (Bosch) from ECP on ebay and it was quite a bit cheaper (Tayna couldn't price match; though they try to) than their website (even with a discount code on the website). Partner's battery came from Tayna and sisters too.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Tayna is bringing up a Bosch 019 S5 A13 for mine. Bit dearer at £180 delivered. 95ah though compared to 70 on the Varta. Cold crank is a lot higher too at 850.

Edit-Just been back on and realised there's a huge range for mine I'd just not clicked to see them. A lot more range than ECP at comparable prices. Just have to research the 3 types standard, EFB or AGM!


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## LeeH (Jan 29, 2006)

AGM are normally found on vehicles with stop/start.


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## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

Darlofan said:


> Tayna is bringing up a Bosch 019 S5 A13 for mine. Bit dearer at £180 delivered. 95ah though compared to 70 on the Varta. Cold crank is a lot higher too at 850.
> 
> Edit-Just been back on and realised there's a huge range for mine I'd just not clicked to see them. A lot more range than ECP at comparable prices. Just have to research the 3 types standard, EFB or AGM!


That's odd! If you look through the Make/model search facility, it only brings up 019 for Stop/Start models requiring AGM.

Really no need to go EFB or AGM if your car doesn't have Stop/Start. It will just bump up the price unnecesarily.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

AGM is not restricted to Stop/Start or only required when you have Stop/Start. AGM offers better cold weather starting, has a lower self discharge rate and is totally maintenance free. There is a whole host of other things where AGM is better than flooded lead acid batteries.

Most motorcycles these days come with AGM batteries in part I suspect because they are spill proof.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

Darlofan said:


> Had multimeter on it today as its been sat for 2 days. 12v showing and 14/15v with engine running.


Unfortunately those are normal values and you can't check a car battery with just a multi-meter checking the volts- even half wasted batteries can be showing as 12 volts because they are 12 volt batteries.

Varta are a good brand, they do a range of models.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Update time. 
Battery was struggling to start car over Xmas so today I went to ECP for them to test it. 
Queueing out the door with 1 assistant on was not a good start but thought it might benefit me, as he'd just want shot of me so will be a quick swap:lol:
Finally got to counter, explained issue. He pulled out a multimeter and said yeah its flat. I knew that as It hadn't started the car yesterday! Presumed he would have more than a multimeter to test it.
He asked what car and said that battery was too small for an Insignia! Told him, its recommended on ECP as suitable for the car, got the standard reply about the warning you get when buying anything from ECP that there are various parts and all might not be suitable.
He found another battery which he said would be better, it is about an inch longer and 80ah rather than 70ah but agreed to swap them. Then the fun started, he asked for receipt. I'd just showed him the order details from my online account with them, this apparently is no good as in his words "anyone can place an order but not collect it and it will still show in the online account."
We had quite a debate at this point about their online system etc. It then took 20mins while he trawled through the computer system trying to find how much I'd paid, dedpite my phone showing him. In the end he gave up, told me to rake the battery and he'd sort it later.
Queue behind me as I left must have had over 20 people in it:lol:


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## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

Well done.


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## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

Darlofan said:


> Tayna is bringing up a Bosch 019 S5 A13 for mine. Bit dearer at £180 delivered. 95ah though compared to 70 on the Varta. Cold crank is a lot higher too at 850.


Bosch batteries are actually manufactured by Varta.

Bosch 015 S5 A13 is identical to Varta Silver 600 402 083, but you pay about a tenner more for the name on the label with the Bosch


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Well I've just been on ECP having a look at the difference in the new battery and returned one. Looking at my receipt it turns out the battery returned is not the one I paid for!! Lion 110(80ah) was ordered yet one delivered was Lion096(70ah)and different dimensions. Lesson learnt there, check product number on arrival.
New one is fitted now so I'll see how it goes.


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## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

Darlofan said:


> Well I've just been on ECP having a look at the difference in the new battery and returned one. Looking at my receipt it turns out the battery returned is not the one I paid for!! Lion 110(80ah) was ordered yet one delivered was Lion096(70ah)and different dimensions. Lesson learnt there, check product number on arrival.
> New one is fitted now so I'll see how it goes.


I knew there had to be some logical explanation for the battery having such a short lifespan given that your daily drive is ideal for recharging the battery. What idiots delivering the wrong battery, both type and power rating!


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

Rakti said:


> I knew there had to be some logical explanation for the battery having such a short lifespan given that your daily drive is ideal for recharging the battery. What idiots delivering the wrong battery, both type and power rating!


Unfortunately we are now in the era of 'fudge you capitalism' and there is a preponderance of people in all kinds of workplaces where they just take their wage gladly and aren't too worried about pride in their work.


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

ollienoclue said:


> Unfortunately we are now in the era of 'fudge you capitalism' and there is a preponderance of people in all kinds of workplaces where they just take their wage gladly and aren't too worried about pride in their work.


I tend to find the small outfits - such as a lot of our DW sponsors/traders - do look after their customers. They are too "knife edge" economically to lose their customer base so do what is simple and sensible - give quality service with quality products and look after their staff.

"Most" big outlets treat their staff as glorified serfs and expect way too much from them. It's hardly a surprise if the staff couldn't care less.

If your employer treats you well, surely you're more likely to deliver a decent days work for a decent wage and conditions? If they don't then I'm struggling to see why the employee wouldn't return the behaviour.

What would you do if taking pride in your work i.e doing it properly, led to disciplinary action 'cus you're not doing enough of whatever it is in the time?

I love the current adverts for new teachers. If it's such a brilliant job how come they need to advertise? Surely there's a massive "pool" of people banging on the door to become a teacher if it's such a wonderful, rewarding job?

Having said all that, yes, of course, there are folks who just take the mick.

Andy.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

AndyN01 said:


> I tend to find the small outfits - such as a lot of our DW sponsors/traders - do look after their customers. They are too "knife edge" economically to lose their customer base so do what is simple and sensible - give quality service with quality products and look after their staff.
> 
> "Most" big outlets treat their staff as glorified serfs and expect way too much from them. It's hardly a surprise if the staff couldn't care less.
> 
> ...


I have investigated teaching as a profession and the reality of that job is that teachers aren't staying the course because there is now so much supplementary dross associated with their work. Teaching kids today is in reality not much different to what it was when I was at school, only the associated bilge would put me or anyone off. It's the same with many public sector organisations who have legions of people who create or manage documentation/compliance/governance all day as their organisations tries to jump through regulations.

I would say that powerpoint is killing teaching mind. Back in the day, when I was at school, a teacher had a few lines in his day book and would do each lesson largely from memory- his own hand just writing it steadily on the black board (white boards became mainstream in my secondary school whilst I was there).

Today, and as anyone who knows MS office/computers well will attest, to it can take longer to plan and organise a lesson than it takes to actually deliver it. You can spend hours and hours fudging around with powerpoint or word and this is all done in the teacher's non-contact time or at home.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Update after a month on the new battery. All seems well, touch wood. Obviously over Xmas, lockdown and some 10inches of snow last week the car has sat idle a bit. Last week it sat for 4days and started fine, so I'm hoping fingers crossed the new battery has solved the issue.

Unfortunately car is currently in the village garage after the power steering pipe blew at the weekend. Easy fix but not a job I fancied in this weather now I'm in my 50s:lol:

Annoyingly it happens a few weeks after deciding to not change the car! Garage is doing a suspension check whilst it's in the air, 170k coming up and it's only had new springs in that time so thought it could do with a look.


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