# Beading, Is it really a good thing?



## Stirks (Mar 13, 2013)

I was listening to an older Ammo NYC podcast with Larry and Jason Rose, they were talking about coatings and in general protection. Jason Rose made a very good point I found interesting to note about a protection beading like crazy. 
He was saying people seem to believe that the better the beading properties of a wax/sealant/coating the better it works, but in fact its the opposite because the last thing you really want is big beads of water sitting on the paint especially when the sun hits them. He believes a last step product that sheets all the water off the paint is really a better protector. I thought it a good point as i see so many posts from people being disappointed in a product when it doesn't bead like mad. 
Whats peoples thoughts on this?
Anyone agree or disagree?


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Been saying it to deaf ears for years mate.
Weekend warriors love it though


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## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

Head says sheeting whereas aesthetically like to see beading...what was said in the podcast you mention makes sense to me.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Beads roll off the paint so they're good to a certain extent and way better than flat water. But yes, a product that sheets in the first place is best


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

I'd always choose sheeting over beeding. Everything seems to be geared towards beeding. Last thing I think I saw sheeting was some srp , with no LSP on top for a change


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Beads that dry cause waterspotting meaning unnecessary work next time its washed. Also if ' ts "dirty rain" then you end up with Sandy spots in car.... not good


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## Summit Detailing (Oct 9, 2006)

I've been saying for a good few years that I'd like a 'coating' brand to step up to the plate and produce a product which offers very little in the way of beading but incredible sheeting characteristics:thumb:...still waiting - if enough people make some noise about it maybe someone will investigate further


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Doubt it summit. Too many weekenders rave about the heading. Take that away from them and they wouldn't have anything to take pictures of


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## Stirks (Mar 13, 2013)

Summit Detailing said:


> I've been saying for a good few years that I'd like a 'coating' brand to step up to the plate and produce a product which offers very little in the way of beading but incredible sheeting characteristics:thumb:...still waiting - if enough people make some noise about it maybe someone will investigate further


Thats what Jason was saying about coatings and the American market. As he was at Megs at the time and was saying they wouldn't release a coating until perceptions of beading being good could be changed, as far as im aware they haven't yet released a coating. Definitely a lot of 'weekend peeps' get to hung up on the beading lark. 
Does anyone think opinions will ever change?


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## A&J (Mar 4, 2015)

Then we would photograph dry cars in the middle of a rain storms

I must admit that beads look great on a car but at the end of the day i choose sheeting over beading as it is more important in the long run.

You can wipe your car with olive oil and get better beads than most of the waxes but thats not really important.


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

NOPE.
The weekend warrior always knows best. They learn from YouTube get a couple of bottles of the latest craze whatever happens to be flavour of the month not know.
A. What it's actually for.
B. How to actually use it.
C. The potential damage overuse can cause.
Then jump on a forum and bang down on pro guys that have probably forgotten more than they know about how brilliant this stuff from halfords is 
A pro guy has a few products in his armoury that he knows inside out upside down. He isn't interested in a panel done in this a panel done in that. A good pro can look at a paint job and seewhat would be best. This is because of experience. Something a lot of weekenders sadly lack


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

FinishKare 2180 is about the nearest thing I have used to what I would call a sheeting only product, it does bead to a degree though, but still very good at sheeting more than the beading.

I guess the answer to the question is that beading in most peoples mind means that there is protection in place, whereas a sheeter would not really show that paint is protected.


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## Stirks (Mar 13, 2013)

spursfan said:


> FinishKare 2180 is about the nearest thing I have used to what I would call a sheeting only product, it does bead to a degree though, but still very good at sheeting more than the beading.
> 
> I guess the answer to the question is that beading in most peoples mind means that there is protection in place, whereas a sheeter would not really show that paint is protected.


Yeah thats what they were saying really 
Beading=protection
No/not much beading=no protection
And it was a concept they were trying to change.
Good luck I thought.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Until waxes arrive that offer sheeting ability as opposed to beading ability then we will have to make do, as long as some sort of protection is on our cars then surely that's the main thing, right?


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## steveo3002 (Jan 30, 2006)

id take sheeting over beading 

next doors unprotected car always drys so much faster than ours that has tall beads over it


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## Stinus (Oct 9, 2015)

Basically, a glass coating for your paint? Those products sheet very wel...

*WaxMode* (yes, perhaps a YouTube channel for weekend detailers, I dunno) claims sheeting vs beading doesn't really matter for most rain showers. Unless it's really a downpour, a sheeting based product still won't sheet the water off effectively and will leave you with the same rain drops residue a beading product would when they start drying.

That being said, the water sheeting of _Soft99 Glaco Mirror Coat Zero_ is insane, surely they could adapt this to work on paint too?


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## Simz (Jun 7, 2013)

AllenF said:


> NOPE.
> The weekend warrior always knows best. They learn from YouTube get a couple of bottles of the latest craze whatever happens to be flavour of the month not know.
> A. What it's actually for.
> B. How to actually use it.
> ...


You are as always correct Allen, do you still use the products that you used when you started or do you use products that have evolved maybe? Ways of doing things evolve too and it might be that someone new to the world comes up with a better more efficient way of doing something than someone who has done it for years, Apps are a good example of this, why are all the kids inventing all the Apps?? I am in no way having a go Allen, it just grates a little that unless we do what we do for 12 hours a day and have done it for the past 50 years then we don't do it properly.

Containers maybe 40ft but the trailers we manoeuvre are 45ft, just saying as I do it day in day out x


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

I'm not knocking the newer technology.yes products evolve as chemists understanding a become better. You say you back but dogs up all day on fine example. Do you use your mirrors and rely on experience. Or do you back it down the tight ally using just the reversing camera and parking sensors.
The problem lies in what works for one doesn't work for all. A quick search will bring up numerous threads about wax over Or wax under a sealant.
To me that is a basic week one day one question and then you keep reading and find its all the gear no idea because of a few videos watched.
Take when I started machining (when electricity was a new invention lol) all we had was a single speed sealey rotary and a 14" lambswool head.
Then along came The 2 speed rotary then out come foams but they didn't fit without the adaptor.
Then jump on a few years and we have computer controlled 6 speed machines. They in comparison are a doddle to use.
The old skool still has it's place in today's world as does the modern. But when the modern doesn't bring up the results where do you go. ???? Back to old skool. Again take yourself full manual license and can drive a crash box or semi auto. Both work but when the only rig left in the yard is the old crash box how many can actually get it moving.
I'm passionate about what I do sometimes passionate people fall out. .


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## Simz (Jun 7, 2013)

AllenF said:


> I'm not knocking the newer technology.yes products evolve as chemists understanding a become better. You say you back but dogs up all day on fine example. Do you use your mirrors and rely on experience. Or do you back it down the tight ally using just the reversing camera and parking sensors.
> The problem lies in what works for one doesn't work for all. A quick search will bring up numerous threads about wax over Or wax under a sealant.
> To me that is a basic week one day one question and then you keep reading and find its all the gear no idea because of a few videos watched.
> Take when I started machining (when electricity was a new invention lol) all we had was a single speed sealey rotary and a 14" lambswool head.
> ...


Agree completely, I would much rather drive my automatic with full driver aids than any crash box AEC or whatever it may be LOL although I could if I had no choice, thankfully I have a choice, I did a couple of days with Matt @ Obsidian and it was a real eye opener especially how many products he had compared with my stash of great smelling products...I watch and listen to everything I can (especially from the pro's),how else can I learn when doing 60 odd hours a week as a steering wheel attendant listening to Radio 2 and 5Live, like I say Allen I am more than aware that I am part of the warriors but I do try my best as do all the people who play Sunday league footy LOL.
This thread has thrown me a little I have to admit, my initial thoughts were the water spots are on the wax not the paint but then that can't be right because the people on here i listen to are in agreement that sheeting is the way to go. Arghhhh But then I don't suffer from water spots so does it matter or is that because it isn't warm enough yet...Oh I don't know ffs maybe it's time to dig my golf clubs out but then again I don't want to risk Tiger pulling me up for doing it wrong

Respect you mate and our passion.:thumb:


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

No simz you are not what I class a weekend warrior. You take the time and effort to understand what .. why.. and how things work not just sit there watch one you tube but then profess to be an expert lol ..Those guys are true weekend warriors.
You are correct beads are on the wax cost NOT The paint but the idea is you don't want water sitting on there. In an ideal world the car would simply never get wet.. But we ain't quite there yet so the next best thing is to cut the surface tension to such an extent that water just rolls off effectively taking dirt and detritus with it.not just to repel the water into beads to sit there.


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## Simz (Jun 7, 2013)

AllenF said:


> No simz you are not what I class a weekend warrior. You take the time and effort to understand what .. why.. and how things work not just sit there watch one you tube but then profess to be an expert lol ..Those guys are true weekend warriors.
> You are correct beads are on the wax cost NOT The paint but the idea is you don't want water sitting on there. In an ideal world the car would simply never get wet.. But we ain't quite there yet so the next best thing is to cut the surface tension to such an extent that water just rolls off effectively taking dirt and detritus with it.not just to repel the water into beads to sit there.


Ok thanks Allen, Enjoy your week off:thumb:


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Not really boiler has decided it's going to die.
Waited four days for the part engineer has just walked out in a high cos they sent the wrong but.
Now going to sit in garden and warm up


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## Simz (Jun 7, 2013)

AllenF said:


> Not really boiler has decided it's going to die.
> Waited four days for the part engineer has just walked out in a high cos they sent the wrong but.
> Now going to sit in garden and warm up


Oh dear, Pubs open!


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Can't smoke in pubs now lol


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Bilt Hamber's Autobalm is a noteable sheeter, with anti corrosive properties to boot.


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## Pittsy (Jun 14, 2014)

In answer to the original question....

Beading and sheeting are similar properties of a hydrophobic surface. 

Just did a little experiment, had a shower and watched the water sheet off the vertical shower screen which had been treated with a glass sealant. 

I then took an old bit of glass i had in the shed, cleaned it and used the same glass sealant. 

I used a watering can without a rose on it and held the glass flat and you guessed it, big beading, held the glass at an sharp angle and the water sheeted. 

I then went a bit further and used a really fine water spray on the glass and got beading on bith flat and angled glass.

So there you go, beading and sheeting are similar water behaviour and will depend on the angle of the panel and of course the type of rain:lol:


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

roscopervis said:


> Bilt Hamber's Autobalm is a noteable sheeter, with anti corrosive properties to boot.


In one of the older threads on Auto Balm one of the BH gents explained what specific properties led to AB being a sheeter rather than a beader. I'll see if I can find it...


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Dear oh dear, elitism in car washing smh.

If you like beading that's fine (I do)same with sheeting.

Don't live your life getting swayed by a mere opinion from somebody on a public noticeboard who has no authority, qualification or right to even label people without knowing them from Adam.

Let's get it all in perspective-
Cars get wet and guess what, even without protection they're not going to suddenly dissolve.


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

As soon as you walk away from your freshly detailed car, its going to start getting a layer of dust and dirt - if you drive it, it will get that layer of dust and dirt even quicker.

I know that if i get the hosepipe or pressure washer out and just rinse the car for a good few minutes with plain water, both the beading and the sheeting will improve to some extent.

For that reason, I do think that beading and sheeting ( lovely as it is ) is dependant on the amount of contamination on top of whichever wax or sealant you have applied.

I honestly think that waxs don't degrade as fast as people sometimes think, i believe that everyday dust and dirt flatten off the surface behaviour and that the beading / sheeting can often be revived by gently cleaning the car.

Just my honest thoughts - who knows ? i might well just be talking a right load of old xxxxxxxx


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## tigerspill (Nov 28, 2015)

Maybe I am stupid but are they not essentially the same thing - beading and sheeting. Both relate to the friction interface between the surface and the water. If the surface is very low friction (because of the LSP), then you will get beading from the standing water on a more horizontal surface and the drops try to repel from the surface. But as the surface has a force applied say by it being on an angle or if the car moved, the same low friction friction causes the water to sheet off.


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## tuggers (Mar 18, 2009)

This is a very interesting subject. 

But almost a pointless one as well lol. 

It's going to be personal preference as to weather someone wants / likes beading or sheeting. 

Are there any products out there that actually cause proper sheeting??

After paintwork is protected properly with a good wax you will notice that the rain will actually constantly drip off the paint work like a tap not quite turned off fully. And if you watch a non protected car you will see the water sit flat and stay put. 

Also once paint is protected with good quality products the issue of beads drying ( surely not on the uk lol ) shouldn't really be apparent. As to mark the paintwork sufficiently it would have to get through the tough layer of protection. 

plus when the vehicle is moved the beading should just blow off thanks to low fiction on the surface.


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

AllenF said:


> Again take yourself full manual license and can drive a crash box or semi auto. Both work but when the only rig left in the yard is the old crash box how many can actually get it moving.


I can.

My old man ran a coach business and told me i had to learn the right way !! 

So i learnt how to use "syncro-crash" (as he called them) and even older pre-selector boxs too.

When i was old enough to drive on the road, he made me drive an Austin Maxi....

I still, to this day, pump the clutch a few times before using the gearbox when the engine is cold LOL


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