# Disillusioned with Jaguar Dealers !!



## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Becoming disillusioned .................................
I have been looking for an XF for nearly 3 months now and am Becoming disillusioned !! Yesterday I travelled a 180 mile round trip to view and hopefully buy a 2009 59 plate 3.0D S Luxury. I was told by the Sales Exec that He had personally examined the car thouroly and that it was in impeccable condition as it should be for a 31K vehicle with just over 10K miles. We even agreed a sensible price over the phone subject to a test drive and a personal examination. 
The car had been valeted extremely badly there were lots of dead leavesunder the bonnet and the interior was not pleasant. The rear tyres were simply illegal the fronts were legal but only just ! There were various scratches on the doors and rear bumper. The drivers mirror had been painted in Pearl grey not the Lunar grey the rest of the car was in. The Nav system was not working properly. The display said the key battery was low and after the test drive refused to lock the car !. 

This is not by any means the first car I have looked at and has been well shall We say misdescribed .

The biggest UK Dealer of these cars will source a car if I place a deposit and it seems will not offer any discount whatsoever on the vehicle as They have to transport the vehicle...

I am now totally disillusioned with the Jaguar experience and am now on the verge of buying another Audi !!

Am I asking to much to have a vehicle free of dents and scratches ( Of course I expect stone chips and the odd minor mark ) And also free of wheel curbing ??


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

I told you they lie. Not all of them and not just Jag dealers.

Give it time and the right car will come along.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

ChuckH said:


> Becoming disillusioned .................................
> I have been looking for an XF for nearly 3 months now and am Becoming disillusioned !! Yesterday I travelled a 180 mile round trip to view and hopefully buy a 2009 59 plate 3.0D S Luxury. I was told by the Sales Exec that He had personally examined the car thouroly and that it was in impeccable condition as it should be for a 31K vehicle with just over 10K miles. We even agreed a sensible price over the phone subject to a test drive and a personal examination.
> The car had been valeted extremely badly there were lots of dead leavesunder the bonnet and the interior was not pleasant. The rear tyres were simply illegal the fronts were legal but only just ! There were various scratches on the doors and rear bumper. The drivers mirror had been painted in Pearl grey not the Lunar grey the rest of the car was in. The Nav system was not working properly. The display said the key battery was low and after the test drive refused to lock the car !.
> 
> ...


That sucks ChuckH... the problem is mate, your eyes work properly! Can't rely on other peoples. :wall:


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## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

Might be better off going down the private route if possible?


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Leodhasach said:


> Might be better off going down the private route if possible?


Mate out of just under 800 Jag XFs Nationwide on Autotrader just 14 are Private sales !! It seems People do not buy and sell privately these days just go to nearest dealer..


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## Leodhasach (Sep 15, 2008)

ChuckH said:


> Mate out of just under 800 Jag XFs Nationwide on Autotrader just 14 are Private sales !! It seems People do not buy and sell privately these days just go to nearest dealer..


Hmm, shame...personally I hate using dealers. That said, some independent dealers, i.e the smaller family-run type, can be very good, but I'm not sure how many would have an XF as they are a relatively rare car in that class, as you say.

Take it you've checked Pistonheads?

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?s=757


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## Buck (Jan 16, 2008)

I do like the Jag but it makes me wonder what the company ethos behind the brand is to allow this to go on. 

I can only talk about my experience with Audi - they are (as) expensive but in my experience their service and focus have stepped on. When I was looking to change my A4 they were honest and realistic re condition of their cars and the pricing. 

I think it does depend to an extent on the dealer and specifically the sales guy - striking up a good relationship is key but only if they're not so unrealistic that this is nigh on impossible.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

I don't think it's unreasonable to want no dents and scratches, especially when they are throwing words like impeccable around. And the tyre issue is plain stupid. Sad thing is if they were honest about it's condition it would still sell, there is a buyer for every car


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Leodhasach said:


> Hmm, shame...personally I hate using dealers. That said, some independent dealers, i.e the smaller family-run type, can be very good, but I'm not sure how many would have an XF as they are a relatively rare car in that class, as you say.
> 
> Take it you've checked Pistonheads?
> 
> http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?s=757


Yes Mate but PH has now become the second Autotrader. Nearly all the cars are just the same ones that appear on there !!

Stratstones have the lions share of the available cars but You can only haggle a deal on a physical car that's already at the local Dealership. If They have to transport a car in from elsewhere You have to pay a deposit and will only get Your deposit back if the car is not as described. So no discount or haggling at all !!Problem being they seem to view a car completely differently to Me. I have gone to the pains of selling My old car so If I don't get at least something in return I'm not buying end of !!


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

What's the price difference between a new one and what you're looking at?

If you live in the **** end of nowhere you seem to only have two options with used ones - travel or have the cars come to your local dealers, but they aren't going to keep sending cars along.

I ask as I've just had a new car. I looked at quite a lot of used ones and dealers just see it differently to the likes of you and I. To them "immaculate" means something different, and in the end I decided I could look at used cars every weekend forever, odds are there would always be something that to me wouldn't be acceptable.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Wait til you have to deal with them when if comes to servicing, friend has one and isnt impressed. Another work associated colleague had one after a 6 series and said it was the worst car he ever had, in the garage more than he drove it. Luckily for him his business is doing well and he chopped it in for a continental super sport.

A few problems that the dealer seemed to brush under the carpet were things like thinking its normal for a car to require front and rear pads on a car that's done less than 15k (and rear tyres). They say its because of the elec parking brake!, nice £250 a year for them, just for rear pads. 

Rear lights fail meaning all new units required, luckily under warranty, but dealer said it would be ok to drive with them faulty!.

Oh and the covers on the centre console, you know the ones, cheap hard plastic with fake wood on that cover the cup holders, they stick and the cover sometimes works sometimes not. All on a new car, audi a6 3.0 tdi quattro s-line anyone?


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

hutchingsp said:


> What's the price difference between a new one and what you're looking at?
> 
> If you live in the **** end of nowhere you seem to only have two options with used ones - travel or have the cars come to your local dealers, but they aren't going to keep sending cars along.
> 
> I ask as I've just had a new car. I looked at quite a lot of used ones and dealers just see it differently to the likes of you and I. To them "immaculate" means something different, and in the end I decided I could look at used cars every weekend forever, odds are there would always be something that to me wouldn't be acceptable.


Price difference is about 6K. which is a lot of money. I am paying for My car with My own money and not taking finance.
The Dealers have not sent any cars along at all yet Mate let alone keep sending them ! I refuse to pay a deposit that is only refundable if the car is not as described. Even so the Dealer can deduct His transport costs quite legaly from the deposit So if a car turns up and We disagree then I have a battle on My hands.

So far I have travelled several times to see cars that are just quite simply not as described !! OK I am fusssy but allways inform the seller of this from conversation one..


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

robertdon777 said:


> Wait til you have to deal with them when if comes to servicing, friend has one and isnt impressed. Another work associated colleague had one after a 6 series and said it was the worst car he ever had, in the garage more than he drove it. Luckily for him his business is doing well and he chopped it in for a continental super sport.
> 
> A few problems that the dealer seemed to brush under the carpet were things like thinking its normal for a car to require front and rear pads on a car that's done less than 15k (and rear tyres). They say its because of the elec parking brake!, nice £250 a year for them, just for rear pads.
> 
> ...


Cheers Mate Youve just made My evening...................................


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

and there is me toying with the idea of an x type ... don't give up, something will turn up soon, if you ever see anything at marshalls peterborough let me know and i'll go and have a look for you


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## rinns (May 24, 2008)

Chuck, my dad will sell you a 2.7d dec 2008 silver prem lux. 20000 miles . 20 inch upgraded alloys, rear blind, nav, bluetooth, upgraded b&w stereo(2.5k extra)

2 owners, him and nottingham ha fox directors.

I think he would sell for 25k as he's been offered that for it part chop against an xkr

He's been bumming around antigua all winter in his catamaran so dosnt really need a car over here as he has one in spain. Think he's planning on selling both uk cars and getting just one.


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

rinns said:


> Chuck, my dad will sell you a 2.7d dec 2008 silver prem lux. 20000 miles . 20 inch upgraded alloys, rear blind, nav, bluetooth, upgraded b&w stereo(2.5k extra)
> 
> 2 owners, him and nottingham ha fox directors.
> 
> ...


Could that be the answer...:thumb:

You either have to set a millage limit for travelling to view to save on teh heartache or use the forums.

The best places are the owner forums as a general rule they get cared for and are as described.


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## bromoco (May 15, 2009)

cheekeemonkey said:


> I do like the Jag but it makes me wonder what the company ethos behind the brand is to allow this to go on.
> 
> I can only talk about my experience with Audi - they are (as) expensive but in my experience their service and focus have stepped on. When I was looking to change my A4 they were honest and realistic re condition of their cars and the pricing.
> 
> I think it does depend to an extent on the dealer and specifically the sales guy - striking up a good relationship is key but only if they're not so unrealistic that this is nigh on impossible.


Couldnt agree more.... see my thread 
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=208222


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## 306chris (Jan 27, 2007)

I dont think you are being unreasonable with your needs for the car and the dealers do come across as lazy. They are not all bad though. I delivered a 520d to a BMW dealer in crewe today and they were so picky about the conditon. They even noticed swirl marks which is a first from all the dealers I have ever delivered to. 

Keep looking and the right one will come up, just got to find a dealer who takes genuine pride in their cars new and used.


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

I've know a guy looking at swapping a year(ish) old XF for (wait for it.......) a Prius because he is so pissed at the dealer and disappointed in the car. He's also just found out how many recalls his XF has had whilst in for service that the dealer hadn't told him about. Like he said, at least Toyota tell people about them!

I like the advert with the XF about all the awards it has won...... didn't the Rover 75 win all the same awards :lol:


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

rinns said:


> Chuck, my dad will sell you a 2.7d dec 2008 silver prem lux. 20000 miles . 20 inch upgraded alloys, rear blind, nav, bluetooth, upgraded b&w stereo(2.5k extra)
> 
> 2 owners, him and nottingham ha fox directors.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much !! But I realy want the 3.0 and 20 inch wheels would not survive the roads that We have in our locality that the last two winters have created and the council have done nothing to repair.. I was in the Midlands around Worcester and evesham early this week and if I still lived there 20s would be on the wish list but Here in Burntisland ( Fife ) they would be a liability..


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

james_death said:


> Could that be the answer...:thumb:
> 
> You either have to set a millage limit for travelling to view to save on teh heartache or use the forums.
> 
> The best places are the owner forums as a general rule they get cared for and are as described.


I am prepared to travell allmost anywhere to buy a car but if the car is as badly misdescribed as the last two I have viewed then I wont be to happy ..

I have been on all of the UK based Jaguar and XF Forums and placed wanted ads on several of them but it seems no one wants to part with thier cars ..

Daily I check. Autotrader. Pistonheads. Ebay. Gumtree. and all of the Jaguar and XF Forums.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

SteveTDCi said:


> and there is me toying with the idea of an x type ... don't give up, something will turn up soon, if you ever see anything at marshalls peterborough let me know and i'll go and have a look for you


Thanks Steve ! With an X Type You will find many times more vehicles availlable. Autotrader list 2628 X types and 814 XFs So You likely wont have to travell so far ??
The dealers amaze Me honestly all they want to do is sell You a car no matter what..

Discussion with Sales Exec this week. I said preferably 18s 19s at a push on wheel size because My wife has a serious permanant back injury and Our roads are well knackered. No blacks or dark blues as Im not a lover of dark coloured cars. And a light coloured interior IE Dove, Barley, or Ivory or any of the other lighter coloured interiors. Budget well I said 30K I have a little more but need to keep a little in hand in case anything needs doing. I pointed out that finance is not an option as Im allmost retired now so dont want to generate any monthly outgoings. I want a car that needs no body repairs and has had none done...

Later that day I get a call offering Me..
A Black XF
Charcoal (Black) interior
20 Inch alloys
Sport suspension ??? Wifes back injury ??
Price 33K
It has a scrape on the rear wheel arch but they will fix it .. MMmmm

I point out the differences between the wish list and what Im being offered and He says.. Dont worry about it being over budget sir We can arrange finance.........................

I want a Grey ( Either Vapour or Lunar ) ,Silver, Mettalic red, White, light blue,
or any other light coloured car. Interior well light coloured if poss but might settle for black for the right car.

perhaps Im asking to much.

I really wanted to sort of fly the flag and buy a Brittish car this time around but Im about to give in and buy another Audi..................


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

dealers are great  ages ago i went looking for an S type 2.7d but ended up with an A3, most dealers were ok, but Guy Salmon coventry were the best, they even sent a letter thanking me for the interest and visiting .. don't give up something will turn up.

Yes there are plenty of X types and they are soooooooo cheap, i keep going through phases of wanting to swap the Leon, the current plan is to use the Polo as a daily hack, the TT as the fun weekend car and then either an X type or S40 for any long runs or where space is needed.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

SteveTDCi said:


> dealers are great  ages ago i went looking for an S type 2.7d but ended up with an A3, most dealers were ok, but Guy Salmon coventry were the best, they even sent a letter thanking me for the interest and visiting .. don't give up something will turn up.
> 
> Yes there are plenty of X types and they are soooooooo cheap, i keep going through phases of wanting to swap the Leon, the current plan is to use the Polo as a daily hack, the TT as the fun weekend car and then either an X type or S40 for any long runs or where space is needed.


Sounds like a good plan Steve !! Yes the X types are silly cheap at the moment. So are the S types.....:thumb::thumb:


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## minimadgriff (Jul 8, 2007)

ChuckH said:


> I am prepared to travell allmost anywhere to buy a car but if the car is as badly misdescribed as the last two I have viewed then I wont be to happy ..
> 
> .


This is the biggest issue I have with buying a second hand car, I am very reluctant to waste time and fuel going to view cars and they are not as described, which is all too common.

So dubious after all the false adverts and lies I got told when I was looking for a runabout last time. "whats the body work like?" answers like "yeah good, its a clean little car" only to turn up to cars painted 4 different shades, one even had the bloody 1/4 panel caved in when I turned up! "Yeah OK luv, I wasn't going to spot that, could of told me on the phone!" 80mile round trip wasted.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Might be worth waiting another 4-5 months as the facelift model is due very very soon and you may see an influx of the 2009/2010 models hit the dealers


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

ChuckH said:


> I really wanted to sort of fly the flag and buy a Brittish car this time around but Im about to give in and buy another Audi..................


It's about as British as a Nissan Micra.....


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## extreme-detail (Nov 7, 2005)

i`ll speak to my good mate lee on monday as he is the sales mgr at jag up in inverness


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## extreme-detail (Nov 7, 2005)

http://www.macraeanddick.co.uk/used-cars.aspx?st=Vehicle&vhl=601249170&ctr=2560531

http://www.macraeanddick.co.uk/used-cars.aspx?st=Vehicle&vhl=601249157&ctr=2560531


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

ChuckH said:


> The Dealers have not sent any cars along at all yet Mate let alone keep sending them ! I refuse to pay a deposit that is only refundable if the car is not as described. Even so the Dealer can deduct His transport costs quite legaly from the deposit So if a car turns up and We disagree then I have a battle on My hands.


I think I worded what I meant badly. What I mean is that however wrong it may be, if you have a dealer have one or two cars transported to your local branch, if you walk in and say "Nope" within ten seconds they're going to have you pegged as a fussy bugger and too much hassle.

You're right to be fussy, I would be, and it's your money, but the sad reality is that for every one of you or me there's probably 10 people who don't pick up on these things and would just buy the car anyway.

The dealers are on another planet and what to you is £30k of your hard-earned is just a piece of tin to them.

Fingers crossed you find a mint one but I suspect it may be a little more due to luck than a dealer truly understanding what a "mint" car should be.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

hutchingsp said:


> I think I worded what I meant badly. What I mean is that however wrong it may be, if you have a dealer have one or two cars transported to your local branch, if you walk in and say "Nope" within ten seconds they're going to have you pegged as a fussy bugger and too much hassle.
> 
> You're right to be fussy, I would be, and it's your money, but the sad reality is that for every one of you or me there's probably 10 people who don't pick up on these things and would just buy the car anyway.
> 
> ...


Thanks.. I wont have a vehicle transported in as I just cant trust them to describe accurately and I dont want to be put in a position where I have to embaressingly refuse a car.. You are absolutely right when You say a car to them is just a piece of tin !! All they want to do is hit targets and will say a car is mint on the chance that I will buy it despite Me politely telling them from the outset that I will not ........


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## Buck (Jan 16, 2008)

Chuck

Advert in my local paper.

Car is XF 2.7 Turbo Premium Luxury 2009. Spec looks good. Dealer has a good rep so might bs worth a chat and there are a few guys on here that live in York that might be willing to go and take a look.

www.philipwelch.co.UK

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/uv...9404_template01&id=201110381446189&distance=0

Adrian


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## Matt. (Aug 26, 2007)

^

I found him a cracking XJ, but was 2.7. Which i dont think Chuck is too bothered about.

I think the *one* he wants is 3.0


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

ChuckH said:


> I am prepared to travell allmost anywhere to buy a car but if the car is as badly misdescribed as the last two I have viewed then I wont be to happy ..
> 
> I have been on all of the UK based Jaguar and XF Forums and placed wanted ads on several of them but it seems no one wants to part with thier cars ..
> 
> Daily I check. Autotrader. Pistonheads. Ebay. Gumtree. and all of the Jaguar and XF Forums.


Not in the same league as you, but i was holding out for a rover 75 diesel with real wood dash and british racing green and beige interior, well not all them but that would be my dream combo.
Wife said i would never get it and would have to settle on something else.
1 hour later was on the 75 forum and the whole spec came up and top trim level only thing it didnt have was water jets for lamps not bothered about and didnt have the powerfolds.
Agreed a price with the little bits mentioned was met at the train station in newcastle by the owner in the car went to his house and gave it a good going over drove it back.

What a few members of the 75 forum do is if a car comes up near them they are prepared to go check it out for the prospective member to buy.
They have found some crackers and warned others off.

Something to consider and since it would be a forum member they know what to look for.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Just a random one, but if you are looking for comfort have a look at 7 series BMW's. Just had a go in a 730D SE and oh my, they waft along and knock spots off (different league) in terms of ride comfort.

It went well too, idrive a bit fiddly but that would get easier with time. They ooze quality though compared to the Jag.


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## bbigman2000 (Aug 28, 2006)

extreme-detail said:


> i`ll speak to my good mate lee on monday as he is the sales mgr at jag up in inverness


Jaguar Inverness and Leigh are excellent, I was well looked after when buying the XFR100. :thumb:


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

Would have an Audi in a heartbeat over a Jag anyway


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## Jacksones (Feb 3, 2012)

Have you contacted Jaguar headquarters about your issues? 

I recommend you do as I believe they would be extremely interested in your issues. 

Facelifted XFs are lovely and nicer than the equivalent Audi in my (biased) opinion.

Hope you find a car that suits you.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

im guessing no-one has noticed the age of this thread


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## DIESEL DAVE (Jul 26, 2007)

-Kev- said:


> im guessing no-one has noticed the age of this thread


Oh but they have !


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