# Diesel owner question: dirty boot.



## Big-Pete (Sep 16, 2010)

right, my daily is a 2004 Ibiza Cupra TDi, which has a PD160 engine, and like most people ive taken some parts off it to make it run better(read EGR delete, oil breather mod so it doesn't go into the inlet but vents to atmos, and it has a miltek system with decat), and it runs lovely! 

all this contributes to st coming out the back at a fairly decent pace, now i have no problem with it, BUT it leaves an ungodly mess on the back of the car, so much so that after: apc/snow foam/wash, there still ingrained black soot, and the only way to get it off is to get a bit of polish and rub it out.

car was stripped back when i bought it, and polished and had 2 decent coats of Fusso, and then a layer of jays wax v1 on top as a sacrificial layer, and all of this still wont stand up to it, this black stuff just sticks to it!! 

anyone else had these issues? how did you go about sorting it?


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## Techgeek (Jun 7, 2007)

Maybe fix the tampering so the ****e that you are struggling to shift off the back of it isn't also going into the lungs of people behind you where its even harder to clean out?
You can mod a diesel without turning it into a smoke machine it just takes a bit more thought.


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

I hate fast diesels that smoke, I'd rather have a slower one that didn't. I had the same issue with a freelander, in the end I ended up removing the generic map and ran it standard. I'd get it remapped properly to try and address the issue. Not a generic map, one that's checked against a rolling road and checked/ changed accordingly.


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## Streeto (Apr 3, 2008)

Techgeek said:


> Maybe fix the tampering so the ****e that you are struggling to shift off the back of it isn't also going into the lungs of people behind you where its even harder to clean out?
> You can mod a diesel without turning it into a smoke machine it just takes a bit more thought.


Not sure how this is answering his question green peace...

My only suggestion would be to remove the engine all together, put two big sails on the doors and only drive the car when it's a windy day.

If you don't fancy that what about PPF wrapping the area or the rear bumper where it's forming? Might have abit more reliance to the soot that's kicked out.


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## piston_warrior (Jul 25, 2012)

There's only one real fix to that.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Streeto said:


> Not sure how this is answering his question green peace...
> 
> My only suggestion would be to remove the engine all together, put two big sails on the doors and only drive the car when it's a windy day.
> 
> If you don't fancy that what about PPF wrapping the area or the rear bumper where it's forming? Might have abit more reliance to the soot that's kicked out.


It maybe wasn't addressing the question, but it was a spot on point of view.

If a car is running that bad it's leaving a black reek up the back of the car it's a serious issue.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Slightly off topic, but it seems to be a thing in NI at the minute, where mk4 tdi golfs (and ibiza, tiled, 306s) have the sides and roofs washed, but not the tailgate and rear bumper. 

OP, you may find that a coating would help protect your paintwork from the soot etc. A quick wash a couple of times a week would help prevent the build up too. 

Cooks 

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## Bulkhead (Oct 17, 2007)

Techgeek said:


> Maybe fix the tampering so the ****e that you are struggling to shift off the back of it isn't also going into the lungs of people behind you where its even harder to clean out?
> You can mod a diesel without turning it into a smoke machine it just takes a bit more thought.


I have to agree. Manufacturers have to design engines to strict emissions standards for a reason. It's a bit selfish to increase pollution just because it makes the engine run a bit sweeter. You could always just clean the EGR every now and then. In regards to the original question, I get a few spots on the rear of my diesel Land Cruiser and a bit of tar remover seems to do the trick.


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Cookies said:


> Slightly off topic, but it seems to be a thing in NI at the minute, where mk4 tdi golfs (and ibiza, tiled, 306s) have the sides and roofs washed, but not the tailgate and rear bumper.
> 
> OP, you may find that a coating would help protect your paintwork from the soot etc. A quick wash a couple of times a week would help prevent the build up too.
> 
> ...


Nope it won't. I had a derv that I had remapped and the EGR & DPF deleted. The **** coming out the exhaust is sticky and oily and requires actual contact to remove.....there is no easy cheat or way round it. I know I tried everything from neat TFR to APC.

OP be warned you might want to get it sorted as they are developing a test that will detect the DPF (or CAT as you called it) being removed. It will pass for the minute on the test but the new particulate test will leave you with a car that's a failure. The only solution to your problem is get the DPF re installed (by the way you can get a monster fine if caught) and the car properly mapped.

Hope this helps.

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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

My standard Golf tdi builds up a layer of sticky, speckled stuff on the boot lip and lower hatchback. It needs a swipe to properly remove it, nothing touchless works. 

I have yet to find an lsp that can shrug it off, as diesel fuel is naturally waxy and the fumes will cling to anything they touch. 




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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Techgeek said:


> Maybe fix the tampering so the ****e that you are struggling to shift off the back of it isn't also going into the lungs of people behind you where its even harder to clean out?
> You can mod a diesel without turning it into a smoke machine it just takes a bit more thought.


have to agree the op removes all the emission control and probably had it mapped poorly and wonders why it smokes:wall:
as said above it can be done making a very fast capable machine but as always to do it correctly requires a bit of thought and deeper pockets


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

nick_mcuk said:


> The **** coming out the exhaust is sticky and oily and requires actual contact to remove.....there is no easy cheat or way round it. I know I tried everything from neat TFR to APC.
> 
> .....they are developing a test that will detect the DPF (or CAT as you called it) being removed.


On the cars round here it definitely looks like tar nick, completely get your point about it being oily!!

I think the 04 ibiza 1.9 tdi pd would only have a cat, as the dpf would have been introduced on the VAG range later (around 07/08 iirc). Should be easy enough to reinstate if the cat was replaced with a straight pipe.

I had my Exeo 170 remapped, and kept the dpf and cat. I wasn't particularly impressed tbh, the car did a regeneration every 100 miles or so which wasn't right. Eventually I had the remap removed and the car felt so much smoother and quieter.

Hope you get it sorted OP.

Cooks

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## Disco Smudge (Aug 27, 2013)

I have a heard that mixing a little bit of 2-stroke oil can help reduce the smokiness


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## ah234 (Nov 10, 2015)

nick_mcuk said:


> Nope it won't. I had a derv that I had remapped and the EGR & DPF deleted. The **** coming out the exhaust is sticky and oily and requires actual contact to remove.....there is no easy cheat or way round it. I know I tried everything from neat TFR to APC.
> 
> OP be warned you might want to get it sorted as they are developing a test that will detect the DPF (or CAT as you called it) being removed. It will pass for the minute on the test but the new particulate test will leave you with a car that's a failure. The only solution to your problem is get the DPF re installed (by the way you can get a monster fine if caught) and the car properly mapped.
> 
> ...


I suspect as an 04, it doesn't have a dpf


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## Disco Smudge (Aug 27, 2013)

It won't it tends to be on the 06-07 onwards that it was introduced but if it's decatted that would cause an issue some MOT time


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

It's called 'over-fuelling'.

The more amateur the remap the more you will see this ie chucking more fuel in earlier to get faster turbo spool up, or worse still, injecting fuel post top dead centre.

If you do have a DPF in a car that has been remapped, and the map is not sorted, you will give your DPF a very hard time.


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## Big-Pete (Sep 16, 2010)

*butthurt*



Techgeek said:


> Maybe fix the tampering so the ****e that you are struggling to shift off the back of it isn't also going into the lungs of people behind you where its even harder to clean out?
> You can mod a diesel without turning it into a smoke machine it just takes a bit more thought.


i do a 400/500miles a week, its not much soot its just a little bit(not much more than a stock one really) and its been mapped properly to not throw out soot like a ****in steam train, its just a minor amount, but it builds up over the week and makes it savage to clean off.

i have my PCV vent to catch can and that helps with less soot, and ok maybe a decat will make it slightly worse but its not the amount of soot, its just the fact its a pure ******* to get off.


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## Big-Pete (Sep 16, 2010)

nick_mcuk said:


> Nope it won't. I had a derv that I had remapped and the EGR & DPF deleted. The **** coming out the exhaust is sticky and oily and requires actual contact to remove.....there is no easy cheat or way round it. I know I tried everything from neat TFR to APC.
> 
> OP be warned you might want to get it sorted as they are developing a test that will detect the DPF (or CAT as you called it) being removed. It will pass for the minute on the test but the new particulate test will leave you with a car that's a failure. The only solution to your problem is get the DPF re installed (by the way you can get a monster fine if caught) and the car properly mapped.
> 
> ...


my car didnt come with a DPF- 2004 bud. just had an EGR, and a catalytic converter.


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## Big-Pete (Sep 16, 2010)

ollienoclue said:


> It's called 'over-fuelling'.
> 
> The more amateur the remap the more you will see this ie chucking more fuel in earlier to get faster turbo spool up, or worse still, injecting fuel post top dead centre.
> 
> If you do have a DPF in a car that has been remapped, and the map is not sorted, you will give your DPF a very hard time.


as before, its not steam train, its just a tad more than stock. the map is a good map.


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## Big-Pete (Sep 16, 2010)

msb said:


> have to agree the op removes all the emission control and probably had it mapped poorly and wonders why it smokes:wall:
> as said above it can be done making a very fast capable machine but as always to do it correctly requires a bit of thought and *deeper pockets*


its my daily which means it has to run 1000% every day, i have to be able to start the key and be able to drive 1000+ miles in a sitting if needs be, the car is mechanically in better than factory condition as far as im concered. deep pockets have nothing to do with it, its my livelyhood so if it needs it, it has it. :thumb:


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

On the subject of EGR systems there is a lot of talk about this on various forums.

Of course it is a peculiarity to emissions regulations. But several people with a range of vehicles have had their EGR bits blanked off and reported better economy, smoother, quieter running and even running cooler because the engine is breathing cool and fresh air as it was designed to originally.

It's totally backward to conventional thinking; EGR basically dilutes the incoming air and reduces peak combustion temp, which tends to deter NOx production.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Big-Pete said:


> its my daily which means it has to run 1000% every day, i have to be able to start the key and be able to drive 1000+ miles in a sitting if needs be, the car is mechanically in better than factory condition as far as im concered. deep pockets have nothing to do with it, its my livelyhood so if it needs it, it has it. :thumb:


All i can say is i know people in the mapping business, and had cars mapped and decent maps don't do what is happening to your car, its over fuelling simple as that, its the less knowledgeable mappers way of playing it safe with regards to stopping it leaning out and causing catastrophic failure!


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

Dirt up the rear is just a price you need to pay for having a dirty modified diesel engine. 

I've found products like wetcoat and beadjuice will perform better than a wax.

Koch chemie green star prewash helps massivly too. 

But on another note... 

How is a breather vented to atmosphere a good idea? (Generally interested)

I understand it means less dirty air into the turbo, but it also mean a massive loss of vacuum within the crankcase. 

The turbo will suck the fumes out of the engine causing needed vacuum. 

Whereas a filter will generally just puff out fumes as and when... 

Also, does it make the car smell?? 

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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

Big-Pete said:


> its my daily which means it has to run 1000% every day, i have to be able to start the key and be able to drive 1000+ miles in a sitting if needs be, the car is mechanically in better than factory condition as far as im concered. deep pockets have nothing to do with it, its my livelyhood so if it needs it, it has it. :thumb:


If that's the case, I wouldn't be messing with the engine taking bits off it, just so it runs 'sweeter'

My diesel is doing 1500+ miles a week, and the only mess on the rear is from general road grime.


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

Sicskate said:


> Dirt up the rear is just a price you need to pay for having a dirty modified diesel engine


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## Big-Pete (Sep 16, 2010)

Sicskate said:


> Dirt up the rear is just a price you need to pay for having a dirty modified diesel engine.
> 
> I've found products like wetcoat and beadjuice will perform better than a wax.
> 
> ...


catch tank, with metal gauze, and then a filter on the "exhuast" side of the tank, 0 smell. and instead of the gasses going through the intake and gumming up the turbo they get vented.


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

Ah ok, I assumed you just chucked a filter on the breather and bunged up the inlet hole. 

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## Big-Pete (Sep 16, 2010)

ollienoclue said:


> On the subject of EGR systems there is a lot of talk about this on various forums.
> 
> Of course it is a peculiarity to emissions regulations. But several people with a range of vehicles have had their EGR bits blanked off and reported better economy, smoother, quieter running and even running cooler because the engine is breathing cool and fresh air as it was designed to originally.
> 
> It's totally backward to conventional thinking; EGR basically dilutes the incoming air and reduces peak combustion temp, which tends to deter NOx production.


i dont understand the question? but honestly EGR- recirculates exhuast fumes back through the intake- so hot pre burnt air with diesel(and previously oil from PCV) would be going through the engine again, rather than clean fresh air, mine runs cooler, i get better MPG, and it is more rev happy.


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## Big-Pete (Sep 16, 2010)

Naddy37 said:


> If that's the case, I wouldn't be messing with the engine taking bits off it, just so it runs 'sweeter'
> 
> My diesel is doing 1500+ miles a week, and the only mess on the rear is from general road grime.


a pipe on my egr was failing anyway, and it was a case of 70quid to TPS for a new egr pipe or get a whole delete from Allard for 50, and going on the lotus principle of add lightness and simplicity i think its a win-win(with the mild aggravation of having to clean the back of the car a bit more.


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

msb said:


> All i can say is i know people in the mapping business, and had cars mapped and decent maps don't do what is happening to your car, its over fuelling simple as that, its the less knowledgeable mappers way of playing it safe with regards to stopping it leaning out and causing catastrophic failure!


All turbo diesels are normally running "lean", it doesn't do them any harm to be non-stoichiometric.

However as you say the smoking is over fuelling, due to the map injecting excess fuel to generate extra power (some of which is wasted as it doesn't get burnt and exits as spot).


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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

I'd have thought tardis would make light work of the oily soot. Wouldn't stop it sticking but should make it easier to remove.


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## Techgeek (Jun 7, 2007)

Egr delete and breather mod should not increase soot or smoke at all, in fact the egr delete should reduce soot due to more oxygen being available to burn the diesel. Even a decat shouldn't cause oily soot over the back or pre cat diesels would suffer the same, and i had a cavalier td where the cat fell apart and cane out in pieces, that didn't make any difference to the reek clinging to the back, there was none. 
Something else is either ****ed or bodged. I would guess you got a cheap remap so the engine light didn't come on with the egr delete, either that or some other problem causing incomplete combustion causing poisonous sticky reek which you aren't all that bothered about. Maybe a boost leak? On her altea the mrs didn't notice the drop in performance from a split intercooler pipe. I noticed the next time i washed it the bumper was bogging around the exhaust and investigated further and found the problem. Dont be a ****. Solve the problem instead of hiding the symptoms.


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## Big-Pete (Sep 16, 2010)

Techgeek said:


> Egr delete and breather mod should not increase soot or smoke at all, in fact the egr delete should reduce soot due to more oxygen being available to burn the diesel. Even a decat shouldn't cause oily soot over the back or pre cat diesels would suffer the same, and i had a cavalier td where the cat fell apart and cane out in pieces, that didn't make any difference to the reek clinging to the back, there was none.
> Something else is either ****ed or bodged. I would guess you got a cheap remap so the engine light didn't come on with the egr delete, either that or some other problem causing incomplete combustion causing poisonous sticky reek which you aren't all that bothered about. Maybe a boost leak? On her altea the mrs didn't notice the drop in performance from a split intercooler pipe. I noticed the next time i washed it the bumper was bogging around the exhaust and investigated further and found the problem. Dont be a ****. Solve the problem instead of hiding the symptoms.


not a cheap map,
no boost leaks,
nothing on the car is a "bodge" 
just an old diesel engine.


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

I had a 90hp (pre PD) 1.9 TDi in a 1996 B6 Passat. Lots of smoke at WOT but never any stains on the back of it.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I was going to suggest Koch Chemie greenstar but someone else got their first.

Should have a crack at soot clinging to a car- certainly has no bones removing engine oil drips off out block paving...


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## Techgeek (Jun 7, 2007)

So a claggy **** is normal to you then?


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## Big-Pete (Sep 16, 2010)

Techgeek said:


> So a claggy **** is normal to you then?


on an old diesel sure, i think its been exagurated quite how much comes out the back, its minimal, but with the mileage i do between washes it does build up


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## davidcraggs (Aug 1, 2007)

I had a 2006 and 2010 Octavia 2.0 TDi - both non DPF. Under hard acceleration you could see the clouds coming out the exhaust pipe (both were 12 months old, 10k miles when bought by us). Using VPower diesel (as it was called at the time) pretty much eliminated the visible emissions, plus the car pulled much better from low revs.


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## Moet1974 (Sep 13, 2015)

Hopefully the OP will find a viable solution in terms of product to clean the soot deposits from the back of the car. It however does highlight the totally inappropriate modding of VAG Diesel engines. As I drive for a living I've seen far to many to count that are absolutely caked in carbon deposits. They all struggle to breath and must be running so rich with fuel it's a joke. For 10 or more horses the s**te they are chucking into the environment is pure evil. Slam it low, roll the arches, rat it, sticker it.... leave the engine alone!!!! Morons.


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## Disco Smudge (Aug 27, 2013)

After the holier than thou brigade has finished! Did you try any of the recommended products?


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

My car is a 2012 VW Golf 1.6tdi, one of the Devil Diesels involved in the emission rigging.

It is standard and is tuned to normal VW service levels (!) and it has left a thin film of sticky stuff on the lower tailgate and boot loading lip since the day i bought it.

It does 55+ mpg on a run and the performance seems good, so i am satisfied it is performing as intended.

I run it on Shell V Power diesel fuel, which seems to make it run a little smoother and quicker.


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## Big-Pete (Sep 16, 2010)

Disco Smudge said:


> After the holier than thou brigade has finished! Did you try any of the recommended products?


as of yet no, i will give a more savage apc a go- used BH surfex at 4- or 5-1, will give it a go neat and see if that helps.

if not ill just have to keep giving it a quick once over with a MF pad and some polish to get it off :wall:


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

Ah yes, If Greenstar is a no-go BH Surfex would have been my next suggestion although I am not sure how similar they might be. I was under the impression Greenstar was a bit 'tamer'.

Interestingly I have come across a number of older VAG cars which smoke like trains when the hammer goes down. Normally Seat Leons and Boras, you can spot them a mile away because of the layer on the back and the bloke in the front furiously changing gear trying to keep up with you.


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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

If it's oily residue, you need a degreaser; APC won't cut it. 

Get a 5L garden sprayer and start with a 10:1 solution of your favourite degreaser. Add product or water to your mix until you get the pre-wash strength you need. 

Spray it on, let it dwell, before it dries rinse off with a watering can. 

After 3 or 4 goes you'll find the dilution you need to tackle your problem. 


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

Surfex is a degreaser, not an apc as such. 




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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

GleemSpray said:


> Surfex is a degreaser, not an apc as such.
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


Yes it is
I think this has already been tried... so perhaps another brand or even some BH Autofoam or TFR? There has to be a chemical which will break this particular film down.

Had another thought; get yourself a 2l Venus Pro Foamer and use that on the car; you may get some better dwell time from your chemical.

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## chrissymk3 (Jul 6, 2015)

tosh said:


> Yes it is
> I think this has already been tried... so perhaps another brand or even some BH Autofoam or TFR? There has to be a chemical which will break this particular film down.
> 
> Had another thought; get yourself a 2l Venus Pro Foamer and use that on the car; you may get some better dwell time from your chemical.
> ...


Just seen a youtube video of that foamer and it looks awesome!

Would this also work with Valet PRO pH Neutral Snow Foam?


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## Big-Pete (Sep 16, 2010)

tosh said:


> Yes it is
> I think this has already been tried... so perhaps another brand or even some BH Autofoam or TFR? There has to be a chemical which will break this particular film down.
> 
> Had another thought; get yourself a 2l Venus Pro Foamer and use that on the car; you may get some better dwell time from your chemical.
> ...


its been tried at 5-1 will try it neat and see if it helps.


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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

chrissymk3 said:


> Just seen a youtube video of that foamer and it looks awesome!
> 
> Would this also work with Valet PRO pH Neutral Snow Foam?


It will work with anything that can foam.

It's not awesome

What they don't show you, is that you have to pump it up (15-20 pumps) for each panel

Fine for wheels (or a boot), but you will get serious arm ache if you did that on your car every time you washed it.

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## gibee (Jul 5, 2013)

I notice mine starting kick out smoke on full song, it's a Euro 6 with no engine mods. Thought it was odd, so switched from Vpower diesel to BP ultimate diesel and it was better... but still could see some smoke at night in the headlights of the cars behind.

So I sent off a couple of emails...

Shells response

_Dear Giles,

Thank you for your email.

Cetane number for Shell V-Power Diesel and Shell FuelSave Diesel are the same, CN 51.

Our new Shell V-Power Diesel is with boosted DYNAFLEX Technology for our best cleaning performance. DYNAFLEX Technology is the name for our latest generation fuel formulations for Shell V-Power unleaded and diesel fuels, designed to help clean and protect your engine. When we speak about "DYNAFLEX Technology" we mean the complex blends in our new formulations that Shell has specially designed and enriched with powerful cleaning agents to help maintain the cleanliness of key fuel system components and protect them from performance robbing deposits.

Different engines and cars will respond differently to the technology in the reformulated Shell V-Power fuels, according to individual driving styles, engine design and conditions. The new Shell V-Power fuels are designed for use in whatever type of diesel or unleaded car you drive - whether it is old or new.

Once again, thank you for contacting Shell UK. We do hope you have found this information useful.

Should you have other concern, please do not hesitate to email us back or call us on 0800 731 8888.

Yours sincerely,

Shirley

_and BP's response

_Dear Giles,

I have been advised by the relevant team that BP supplies fuels to the BS EN590 standard which stipulates a minimum requirement of 51.

Thank you for contacting BP and allowing us to respond to your query.

Kind regards,
Fanni_

Basically the old formulas used to be 54 to 56 cetane, the new formulas just have increased the detergents. Detergents are good and all that but its not the same as a higher cetane number.

This will sound really over the top, I now add a cetane booster (Archoil AR6850) to bp ultimate and you guessed it the smoke on acceleration has gone and the tail pipes are a bit cleaner... kind of defeats the diesel cost savings.

Gi


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## Big-Pete (Sep 16, 2010)

gibee said:


> I notice mine starting kick out smoke on full song, it's a Euro 6 with no engine mods. Thought it was odd, so switched from Vpower diesel to BP ultimate diesel and it was better... but still could see some smoke at night in the headlights of the cars behind.
> 
> So I sent off a couple of emails...
> 
> ...


ffs, i buy the better fuel for better numbers/cleaner running/less chance of knock. and now i have to run a cetane booster!?

does it drive any better or does it smoke less? and whats the dilution?:wall:


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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

I went thing the same thing you have fuel wise. 

Lots of running various additives and even 2 stroke oil. I've finally settled (after 10 years) on local supermarket diesel (most convenient) and Diesel Rhino. 


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## gibee (Jul 5, 2013)

Big-Pete said:


> ffs, i buy the better fuel for better numbers/cleaner running/less chance of knock. and now i have to run a cetane booster!?
> 
> does it drive any better or does it smoke less? and whats the dilution?:wall:


Yep the performance is back, pick up and pull (probably back to stock, rather than santa pod Vin Diesel monster). It does run a bit smoother, it's quieter when cold, plus doesn't have the diesel clack on the inclines when warm. All the things that originally made we switch over to the premium diesel.

The main difference I notice is with normal driving and motorway cruising (which i do quite a lot of). The automatic transmission is much happier to be in a higher gear at a lower RPM. When I can't add the cetane booster (it's stinky stuff so i don't keep it in the boot), the auto box goes all ditsy.

I'd say for a high hp and/or ltr diesel it's worth a shot if your as OCD as i am about these things :lol:

So with dilution, the booster I use has no detergents in it, just Pure 2-Ethylhexyl Nitrate with a lubricant. So there are quite a few on the market and there probably isn't much difference between brands. if you use one with detergents, like the uber popular (and good) Millers Ecomax it might be worth using standard diesel as it got it's own detergents additives, added even more additives to premium diesel might be OTT.

On each tank of BP ultimate I've tried a number of different doses to find the sweet spot, and 25ml added before filling up a full tank works best for me. At 50ml started to bring the mpg down a touch and 75ml it started to smoke on acceleration. So for me it's doesn't need to be boosted by much, we are pretty lucky in UK to get 51 cetane as standard and they say the boosters boost quality fuel better. Just a shame they nudged formulas down, but I guess there being such a big variation on diesel engine technology detergents play a bigger role than cetane with the 'every other tank' drivers.

Hope it helps with the smoke.


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## gibee (Jul 5, 2013)

tosh said:


> I went thing the same thing you have fuel wise.
> 
> Lots of running various additives and even 2 stroke oil. I've finally settled (after 10 years) on local supermarket diesel (most convenient) and Diesel Rhino.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yeah I've heard good things about Rhino, might give it a go when I run out.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I noticed a difference in my (petrol) Legacy when running on Tesco 99 or Shell V power but was sceptical about ever contemplating using the stuff in a diesel- cus it's a diesel.

Quieter when cold? How's that work?


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

GleemSpray said:


> Surfex is a degreaser, not an apc as such.
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


BH advertise is as an APC and degreaser and a lot of it is used for engine bays, so it should shift diesel soot?


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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

gibee said:


> Yeah I've heard good things about Rhino, might give it a go when I run out.


When I was in my experimenting phase, I had two cars:
2006 Golf 2.0 Tdi (PD)
2005 BMW 120d (common rail)

Nothing except Shell V-Power make the VW any smoother.

Anything in the BMW helped.

Millers ecomax didn't make as much difference as Diesel Rhino in the VW (not smoother but definitely more responsive)

So in the interest of buying one product for two cars, Diesel Rhino it is.

(millers Diesel ecomax is however cheaper in a 5L can)

* all this experimenting was done in the years I was doing 40k miles a year; now I'm down to 15k but having Diesel Rhino in the cars means I can basically go to any supermarket pump if I'm not at my local favourite

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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

ollienoclue said:


> I noticed a difference in my (petrol) Legacy when running on Tesco 99 or Shell V power but was sceptical about ever contemplating using the stuff in a diesel- cus it's a diesel.
> 
> Quieter when cold? How's that work?


With v-power or additives, my 120d sounds and feels less like a tractor. Burns better? Less knock? Worth a try.

If you can't tell the difference, then just don't use it again.

The reason I started using additives was that I started a new customer and I didn't go past a shell on the way there and back; I was doing two tanks a week.

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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

I had an old Peugeot 406 hdi 90 a few years back. Great car and very reliable. The car couldn't get up the hill to our house in third gear as it always bogged down. I started using Millers Diesel Sport and after a few tanks it would make it in third!! Haven't used it in a while, might buy some again to try in the focus. 

Cooks

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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

The latest diesel Rhino 500ml dispenser bottle is very good; I would recommend getting that with or without the rhino to go with it.


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## DIESEL DAVE (Jul 26, 2007)

Shell V-Power diesel/petrol use nothing else :thumb:


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## DLGWRX02 (Apr 6, 2010)

I've just read this whole thread from the beginning and there are some interesting points. I gather not many did read the entire post before jumping in with " your the devil for tuning a diesel" comments. I don't care what he has or hasn't done but i'de love to find any diesel car driven that amount of mileage (3/500 miles weekly) with out a build up of soot on the rear. The simplest answer here is regular cleaning to prevent layers building up, even if it's a detailing spray and a few cloths kept in the boot just to woipe an area after each long distance. I have the same issue, I drive minimum 250 miles a week in a white oil burner and if it's not cleaned weekly, I end up with black pipes and a dull grey bumper as a result. I used KC greenstar it removes the thickest but if you give it the swipe test there's always a layer left, so I just try to give it a squirt and wipe usually in the car park at work or when I get home.

Interesting to read about the fuel differences, I always used shell vp diesel where I can and I noticed it smokes like mad when flooring it from stand still, you can see the clouds out the rear. Yet ordinary Asda fuel is much less. Never tried additives so think I'm going to have a look in to some to try.


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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

When I was doing 1000/week, didn't need anything other than Adams car wash, a sponge and a hose. My car had a map, new turbo and nothing else. 

Every car is different though. 


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## baxlin (Oct 8, 2007)

Wouldn't either shortening or lengthening the exhaust tail pipe stop a lot of the buildup of crud?


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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

baxlin said:


> Wouldn't either shortening or lengthening the exhaust tail pipe stop a lot of the buildup of crud?


No

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## DLGWRX02 (Apr 6, 2010)

Here's a question that's always puzzled me, 
why do some diesels have exhaust tips that point to the ground,and others don't?


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## DIESEL DAVE (Jul 26, 2007)

Originally pre DPF pointed down to direct smoke and post DPF didn`t because there should be none, but its just appearances now.


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## DIESEL DAVE (Jul 26, 2007)

DLGWRX02 said:


> Interesting to read about the fuel differences, I always used shell vp diesel where I can and I noticed it smokes like mad when flooring it from stand still, you can see the clouds out the rear. Yet ordinary Asda fuel is much less.


Never ever heard that before and don`t really know why that should be the case but anyway if you value your motor keep using SVP, it is the best 
N.B.
Wonder if the VP is cleaning the gunge left from your Asda fill ups ?


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## Taxboy (Aug 23, 2006)

DIESEL DAVE said:


> Never ever heard that before and don`t really know why that should be the case but anyway if you value your motor keep using SVP, it is the best
> N.B.
> Wonder if the VP is cleaning the gunge left from your Asda fill ups ?


I often see people recommend VP diesel but have there been any objective tests or is this a subjective view

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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

Taxboy said:


> I often see people recommend VP diesel but have there been any objective tests or is this a subjective view
> 
> Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


Subjective

As soon as you fill up and drive off it should be completely apparent. If you don't notice your car being smoother, and quieter, then it doesn't suit your car. If it does, then you have to decide whether it's worth an extra 4 quid per tank.

I did a back to back comparison between BP Ultimate, Supermarket and and Shell v-Power once and I noticed a difference between all 3.

I didn't get any appreciable change in MPG, but I was interested in the power delivery side of things.

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## MagpieRH (May 27, 2014)

tosh said:


> *As soon as you fill up and drive off it should be completely apparent. If you don't notice your car being smoother, and quieter*, then it doesn't suit your car. If it does, then you have to decide whether it's worth an extra 4 quid per tank.


Surely if it's straight away then that has to be a placebo effect? Unless you literally drain your tank before refuelling (which can't do the engine much good), you'll still be getting at best a mix of V-Power and whatever was in there before, and at worst purely whatever you previously filled up with for the first chunk of miles.

I've chucked Tesco Momentum in my petrol Volvo a fair few times, because it's the same price as most of my local stations' regular unleaded (Tesco is a bit out of the way but I pass it occasionally anyway) and it does seem to give slightly better MPG. The car has no power anyway, so I can't see that changing with a slightly higher octane level :lol:


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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

MagpieRH said:


> Surely if it's straight away then that has to be a placebo effect? Unless you literally drain your tank before refuelling (which can't do the engine much good), you'll still be getting at best a mix of V-Power and whatever was in there before, and at worst purely whatever you previously filled up with for the first chunk of miles.


I know it doesn't make sense, but for example when filling up on reserve I notice it every time. So at worse, 90% new fuel, 10% old.

Premium diesel: smoother. Supermarket: bag of nails in comparison. Diesel Rhino then fill with Supermarket: back to smooth again.

Give it a try; I also found premium or additives gave me less smoke on full throttle acceleration and for Diesel Rhino it only adds 30 secs and £1 to the weekly fill.

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## baxlin (Oct 8, 2007)

tosh said:


> No
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I didn't mean the amount of crud created by the engine, but just the amount that finishes up on the bodywork. For instance the end of the exhaust on our Fabia isn't visible, and no deposit at all on the bodywork.

Yet my son in law's BMW exhaust stops level with the bumper, which gets blacked over very quickly, presumably by the low pressure area at the back of the vehicle (which is what causes slab backed estates to always get filthy easily in rain etc)


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

Me and several of my colleagues are taking Navaras here and there with up to 1000 miles a week, lots of stop-start driving as well, never find a layer of diesel soot on any of our cars, just typical road grime. And thinking about it the wifes car does some miles from time to time and I don't ever find much on that, even on the chrome of the exhausts which I have taken to polishing occasionally now.

Beginning to think this is more a VAG type issue linked possibly to remapping etc?

Do any BMW or Ford or Vauxhall people experience the same problems?

Also, I would point out that for a discussion of this nature, DW is a remarkably calm and collected affair. You go wading through pistonheads, the amount of ill-informed or just plain droll responses on there is legendary. A thread like this would already have descended into threats of violence by now.


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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

baxlin said:


> I didn't mean the amount of crud created by the engine, but just the amount that finishes up on the bodywork. For instance the end of the exhaust on our Fabia isn't visible, and no deposit at all on the bodywork.
> 
> Yet my son in law's BMW exhaust stops level with the bumper, which gets blacked over very quickly, presumably by the low pressure area at the back of the vehicle (which is what causes slab backed estates to always get filthy easily in rain etc)


From what I understand, anything that comes out of your car swirls back onto your boot as you're moving forward. It's the shape of your car rather than where the exhaust is pointing. Hatchbacks are the worst because of the large flat surface.

Exhausts that point down are generally (not always) pre DPF cars. An exhaust that points down may help at standstill but not when moving.

The oily 'discharge' is an engine problem, could be related to the map, but even putting it back to stock isn't going to fix it; it rarely does completely as it's indicative of something else thats wrong.

No diesel car should be throwing out oily film, but getting it fixed could end up being valve guides, compression, map, turbo etc (that's where my knowledge ends).

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## chrissymk3 (Jul 6, 2015)

ollienoclue said:


> Me and several of my colleagues are taking Navaras here and there with up to 1000 miles a week, lots of stop-start driving as well, never find a layer of diesel soot on any of our cars, just typical road grime. And thinking about it the wifes car does some miles from time to time and I don't ever find much on that, even on the chrome of the exhausts which I have taken to polishing occasionally now.
> 
> Beginning to think this is more a VAG type issue linked possibly to remapping etc?
> 
> ...


I own a Ford and I've never had any issues like it


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## pyro-son (Dec 12, 2016)

I've got a Saab (Vauxhall Engine) and previously Peugeot both diesels and have never had this issue of oily residue on the rear just that standard road grime. No difference to the petrol Jazz in terms of dirt.


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## Big-Pete (Sep 16, 2010)

ollienoclue said:


> Me and several of my colleagues are taking Navaras here and there with up to 1000 miles a week, lots of stop-start driving as well, never find a layer of diesel soot on any of our cars, just typical road grime. And thinking about it the wifes car does some miles from time to time and I don't ever find much on that, even on the chrome of the exhausts which I have taken to polishing occasionally now.
> 
> Beginning to think this is more a VAG type issue linked possibly to remapping etc?
> 
> ...


its probably because mine is old, and slightly modified, when we did the EGR delete we cleaned about half a ton of oil residue/gunk out of the inlet manifold, and the PCV breather mod has helped keep it slightly cleaner aswell, the only thing not helping is porbably the decat system 

as far as im concerned if the engines healthy im not to fussed about the extra cleaning.

the remap is a very good map, incredibly proggressive, and not smokey at all, but as before- many miles of motorway hasnt helped with the buildup.


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