# Is it safe?



## magpieV6

Hi guys, I am slowing gathering my tools/ingredients to try my homebrew, so far I have only messed about with existing products & melted down together of which have been very sucessful. 

I am a little apprehensive when it comes to the homebrew idea from scratch though, is there any do's & don'ts? I have been doing lots of research, and will continue to. 

Also, ebay is my only source atm, is there anywhere I can get the basics of my items rather than individual ebay sellers? 

Many thanks guys, love this section its been most helpful


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## banditbarron

Simply put no it isn't!

Your mixing chemicals with no control over whats ACTUALLY in them

This whole concept is silly if you ask me


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## Obi- Dan Karnubi

Its safe, the only chemicals your using is really the solvent? Stay away from solvents like Xylene or any solvents that are basically thinners :thumb:

The carnauba and bees waxes are natural, as are most carrier oils like coconut and almond oil, which most wax manufacturers use in their waxes!


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## Hasan1

Good luck with yours magpieV6


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## tom-225

Nope, its dangerous, ive seen many people heating things up to be over or VERY near their flash points. 

heating solvents up is not a good idea it doesnt take much to make the vapours ignite.


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## ECS

It's not dangerous, no more dangerous than using panel wipe for instance (2°c flash point)


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## tom-225

ECS said:


> It's not dangerous, no more dangerous than using panel wipe for instance (2°c flash point)


would you be using panel wipe over the top of a hot stove??????????


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## ECS

No but panel wipes flash point is 2°C do you chill it before you use it?


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## tom-225

ECS said:


> No but panel wipes flash point is 2°C do you chill it before you use it?


doesnt really make much of a difference once you are over that flash point. if you are over the flash point and the vapours get to the heat source it WILL go bang, pretty basic chemistry really.

go and ask ANY H&S surveyor and see what they say.


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## ECS

No need I've done my NEBOSH diploma. 
DJ sell homebrew wax kits, do you think these would be market feasible if they were unsafe?


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## tom-225

ECS said:


> No need I've done my NEBOSH diploma.
> DJ sell homebrew wax kits, do you think these would be market feasible if they were unsafe?


Im pretty sure that Dodo are using chemicals that are alot safer that the contents of some of these home brews.

Ive given my opinion, that without alot of knowledge and safety precautions this can be very dangerous.

That is all i have to say.


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## Obi- Dan Karnubi

I've been researching and making homebrew waxes for the best part of 7 months, and there are some solvents that as Tom has said are highly flammable and the vapor is aswell, this is where researching is key and a good dose of common sense helps lol


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## Deasha

What Dan3.2 says!
Doing a homebrew myself! Research is the keyword!


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## Serious

Taken from another forum... Written by a Chemist...



> We have had an increasing number of individuals interested in home brewing of products so a quick post is in order. We apologise but we are unable to provide solvents and other concentrated chemicals to private users. Whilst we understand that there is interest, we feel that we would be in breach of our duty of care by supporting this activity. Our view and that of our insurers are that such activities should be restricted to those with a suitable chemical knowledge. Two examples: An individual blended two liquid products in an attempt to make a brew that would save time - he ended up in casualty as a result of the toxic gas which was produced. In isolation, the products were totally safe and without hazardous classification. Another individual was lucky to have had a fire extinguisher handy when his wax brew went up. At room temperature the solvents were not notably hazardous, but at the 80C he was using to dissolve the carnauba, the solvent in question was such that there was an explosive vapour (not just flammable) was produced. Neither individual understood why the problems had occurred, even after it was explained.
> 
> So I again would state that anyone trying to blend chemicals needs to consult an expert before proceeding. You risk the health of yourself and those around you if you mix chemicals without a knowledge of what will happen. Please be careful.


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## magpieV6

im in two minds now. cheers for your help guys, i'll be doing lots of research still then!


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## Deasha

@serious
Like the quoted chemist says, the individuals didn't undersood why it happened!

In my opinion thats a lack on knowledge!
Before you start a homebrew or something similair, you should do lots of research!
Keep in mind that you handle chemicals, or oils with low flash and boiling points! And some also produce a explosive vapour!

If you do your homework, the risk is not that big!
Also take precautions cause there will always be a risk!

For example orange oil or limonene is used very often in homebrewing!
If you just do a quick search on wikipedia, you see the flashpoint is around 50C!
Keep that in mind!
Carnauba melts around 75/90C!
Thats why they first melt the nuba, and mix in the limonene at a lowrr temperture!

IF you go homebrewing, do your homework on ingredients! And always remember there is a risk! And keep in mind some ingredients 'play' with, looks harmless but when they are heated the can get instable and very dangerous !


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## si_mon

I have been brewing waxes for a short while and i'm always extremely careful. Does anyone have any suggestions for solvents that are 'safer' to use than others?


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## Deasha

@si_mon
Every solvent is differend so will react differend!
This also includes the flashpoints and stuff like that!

The safest stuff to use as solvent in a homebrew is proberly a drying oil like linseed!
But they do have a huge down side, the cure time will be increased dramaticly!
Almost every one uses turpentine and limonene, in my opinion they are pretty safe when used with caution and in the right way! 
So dont heat them by direct contact with fire... Keep the flashpoint in mind!
And always try to use a thermometer!


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## banditbarron

One main thing that's getting missed is what's the point? Dodo waxes are like £30

They are as good well actually better than any 'home brew'

So why mess about trying to make something better than actual chemists?

And also cause shed loads of washing up :lol:


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## Deasha

You have a good point!
Dodo waxes are great, and you will spend lots more doing homebrewing!
You can also buy z...... Or swissvax!

But thats not the point on doing a homebrew!


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## Tazz

upon reading this thread, im reluctant now to carry on looking into homebrewing

its all fun and creative, however, with what has been mentioned, it can all go very wrong quite easily, i was never very good at science at school as i was too busy flicking rubbers and sharpeners at the teacher, and many words ive came across already i dont understand

ill be leaving it to the pros 

in addition, all the materials can get quite expensive


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## Deasha

@Tazz
The ingredients do get expensive if you move on!
Like rubbishboy mentioned in his homebrew experience, his spend lots and lots of hour researching, bought lots of ingredients, some hard to get hands on!

If you dont trust yourself in 'playing' with chemicals. 
Dont go homebrewing... 

Or buy the Dodo homebrew kit!


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## Ronnie

I have to admit some of the fallout mixes are extremly unsafe and I will be putting a wee post together to highlight the potential dangers some of you are exposing yourself, we have managed to mix several safe to use cleaning chemicals available on here and were able to get Cyanide!!! beyond some simple mixing this is a very foolish practise if you are not trained and know exactly what you are using. As someone said earlier the Dodo home brew kit is okas it is known products with a specifice brewing instruction but even this could potentially be harmful if you are not careful in heating oils etc etc. think chip pan fires!!!


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## Bulkhead

I like the idea of home brews. After all, on of my favourite waxes is Rubbish Boys. However, I think you'd have to be pretty dumb not to do a little research first regarding the potential dangers. It's often too easy to forget that even common products can be dangerous if used/mixed unwisely. I regularly use a variety of volatile solvents, carcinogens, cyanide etc. and wouldn't dream of doing so without knowledge of their dangers. You're inviting an entry into the Darwin Awards if you don't take the risks seriously.


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## msb

banditbarron said:


> Simply put no it isn't!
> 
> Your mixing chemicals with no control over whats ACTUALLY in them
> 
> This whole concept is silly if you ask me


This sums up the whole idea of homebrewing, can't understand the point of it i'm afraid aside of the risks producing, what if you produce something that damages your paintwork,best left to people who have studied and actually know what they are doing. finally its not like theres not enough choice of wax out there, i'm pretty sure anyone can find a wax product that gives the result they want from whats readily available instead of prattling about on something thats most likely to be inferior anyway


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## adjones

msb said:


> This sums up the whole idea of homebrewing, can't understand the point of it i'm afraid aside of the risks producing, what if you produce something that damages your paintwork,best left to people who have studied and actually know what they are doing. finally its not like theres not enough choice of wax out there, i'm pretty sure anyone can find a wax product that gives the result they want from whats readily available instead of prattling about on something thats most likely to be inferior anyway


All it takes is a few good reviews from sympathetic friends, a healthy dose of smoke and mirrors and a few quid to DW and you have a little money spinner. People want to try and milk it if they can and, taking the lead from others, chemical expertise and safety are irrelevant. To my mind, it is just another step in a path to ever more average detailing products.


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## The Cueball

isn't home brewing just the same as any other DIY??? I'm failing to understand why people 'don't get it'!?!?


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## adjones

The Cueball said:


> isn't home brewing just the same as any other DIY??? I'm failing to understand why people 'don't get it'!?!?


For the same reason that you are not allowed to do electrical repairs unless suitably qualified or the work is checked by such an individual - get it wrong and you can harm yourself or others. Simples.


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## The Cueball

but people still do... and mechanics and other DIY where you could injure yourself...so still no different really... simples....


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## adjones

So where does that argument end... You don't 'get' the problem with speeding or drink driving because, inspite of the risks, people still do it...

To me the difference here is that we have a large public forum filled with people with little chemical knowledge, which is appearing to advocate the mixing of chemicals and the heating of solvents to levels which would be specifically advised against by suppliers.

So if someone burns their house down and tells the fire people that they were boiling solvents like others on detailing world... Is DW absolutely sure that they couldn't be accused of breaching their duty of care (as perceived industry professionals) to their readership who could be expected to have no special chemical appreciation.


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## The Cueball

oh my god... :wall:


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## Alzak

It is dangerous for people who do not use common sense ... just a bit of thinking and you will be safe thats all :thumb:

I know there is a lot idiots touching something what they should not but this is life unfortunately ...


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## Flaffy_91

adjones said:


> So where does that argument end... You don't 'get' the problem with speeding or drink driving because, inspite of the risks, people still do it...
> 
> To me the difference here is that we have a large public forum filled with people with little chemical knowledge, which is appearing to advocate the mixing of chemicals and the heating of solvents to levels which would be specifically advised against by suppliers.
> 
> So if someone burns their house down and tells the fire people that they were boiling solvents like others on detailing world... Is DW absolutely sure that they couldn't be accused of breaching their duty of care (as perceived industry professionals) to their readership who could be expected to have no special chemical appreciation.


So..... if this is the case every car forum on the internet should be shut down

If I (as a qualified and time served mechanic) wrote something about how I managed to take my wheels off, remove my suspention and replace it with a nice set of coilovers.... theres going to be other people that want to do the same thing so will try it, if one of them left a bolt loose and there wheel fell off, that wouldn't be my fault.... nor the forum I posted on fault either

it all boils down to common sense... its like getting a barrel of petrol and sticking a match in it... it would be cool to see the resulting explosion yes but my god would you be a idiot for doing it

so in answer to the OP's question....... yes it is dangerous, if you a idiot that hasn't done any research atall and has thrown aload of chemicals into a pot with some wax over fire to "see what happens"
no its not dangerous, if you research and take things easy and don't over do it and use a little common sense


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## andystevens

Really can't see the point in making one's own. It's not as if there are too few products allready on the market which have many £Thousands invested to formulate.


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## Flaffy_91

andystevens said:


> Really can't see the point in making one's own. It's not as if there are too few products allready on the market which have many £Thousands invested to formulate.


You really don't get it do you
It's not to make a better product. It's to explore what goes into it and have the lovely thought of "I made that"

Why make your own dinner when there's loads of microwave meals out there


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## k4ith

I am just waiting on the create your own sealants section appearing for all the folks that aren't into waxes.


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## andy monty

Deasha said:


> The safest stuff to use as solvent in a homebrew is proberly a drying oil like linseed!


but is it 

http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/...ter_a_fire_consumes_their_home_127086633.html


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