# Zaino Z-8 Grand Finale Spray Seal



## -tom- (Jan 27, 2009)

Hi guys would this be ok to use on top of dodo jucie supernatural?


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

I use it on anything. as you have dodo why not try red mist. or fk have just brought one out aswell i think.


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## alxg (May 3, 2009)

As above, I have found it goes well on top of pretty much anything.
Very impressive stuff, and you use so little of it too. :thumb:


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## DimGR (Jun 7, 2009)

will i see any big difference against opti seal ?
i use opti seal ..


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## Cliff (Mar 4, 2007)

DimGR said:


> will i see any big difference against opti seal ?
> i use opti seal ..


As with a lot of LSP's 'gain' in looks varies from person to person  Try it and see, I have used it over waxes, FK and of course Zaino and have never been disappointed :thumb:


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

Yeah you can definitely use it over a wax. It's not as solventy as some spray sealants so it doesn't seem to effect th wax underneath at all. It just adds a really nice slickness you don't really get from a wax. 

In my opinion it's along with Red Mist tropical the best dedicated spray sealant on the market.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Its a win in my eyes.


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## -tom- (Jan 27, 2009)

cheers guys i have tried dodo red mist next year is the year of zaino so till i get a fill zaino kit i want try it on supernatural. 

thanks


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## BSS1980 (Nov 18, 2009)

How durable would you guys say Z8 is?

I'm looking for a suitable quick detailer to use between waxing?

I currently use victoria concours red and my paint is metalic black base and clear if that makes any difference?


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Slightly OT I know. But I have a genuine interest in why members wish to apply a spray sealant to a wax layer??

I have seen these posts so many time and I am very curious.



DimGR said:


> will i see any big difference against opti seal ?
> i use opti seal ..


Do not use OS on top of your wax layer. It simply displaces the lower wax layer and becomes your main LSP.
Details below.
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=1600866&postcount=1
Gordon.


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## BSS1980 (Nov 18, 2009)

caledonia said:


> Slightly OT I know. But I have a genuine interest in why members wish to apply a spray sealant to a wax layer??
> 
> I have seen these posts so many time and I am very curious.
> 
> ...


Please excuse me as i am a beginer when it comes to detailing and so far only going by what people have told me prior to joining this forum.

Thanks for posting the link. So basicly what should i use between waxing if not a QD?

For give me but what is LSP? Is there a section on this forum that explains what all the abriviations mean?


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## Greg_VXR (Nov 21, 2009)

a LSP is a last stage product like a wax or sealent but read this mate it might help with your decision whether to use a QD over wax

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=147332&highlight=zaino+z8

and also read the attached thread that i give because although it isnt the worst out there if you read it can strip some of the wax which in this case seems pointless


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

You can use a traditional QD such as Zymol Field Glaze, or Clearkote Quikshine, but not a 'spray sealant' if you are concerned about the wax layer you have down and whether this may be displaced or not (which we only really know Opti Seal will do).

Still to a 'traditional' QD and you will be fine....


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

BSS1980. I meant not harm in my post. So if any taken.Please except my apology.

Whether a product displaces or seals in thats for another day.
I just have a curiosity in why members wish to do this. Surely its a waste of products, time and effort.

It you wish a wax layer then so be it. But to then replace this with a sealant type product as you upper most LSP. Baffles me.
Surely if you wish a sealant as your LSP. Then apply one.

So why do we feel then need to apply a spary sealant over a wax.??

Gordon.


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## -tom- (Jan 27, 2009)

caledonia said:


> Slightly OT I know. But I have a genuine interest in why members wish to apply a spray sealant to a wax layer??
> 
> I have seen these posts so many time and I am very curious.
> 
> ...


Hi Caledonia,

so would u sujest i waite till i get the full zaino kit and use in on top of the likes of Zaino Z-5 PRO or Zaino Z-2 PRO Show Car Polish for Clear Coated Car Finisheswith Zaino ZFX??


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## ross-1888 (Feb 22, 2009)

from reading on this forum i have always been under the impression that it its always better to apply a sealant or spray sealant first then a coat of wax on top. Using spray sealants as a wax top up layer is totaly beyond me. if you want to "top" up a wax layer then surely it is better to re apply a wax over the top or strip it off and start from scratch.


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Just get some Field Glaze or similar


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## DimGR (Jun 7, 2009)

caledonia said:


> Slightly OT I know. But I have a genuine interest in why members wish to apply a spray sealant to a wax layer??
> 
> I have seen these posts so many time and I am very curious.
> 
> ...


huh? no wax..
the car has coats of opti seal 
and my concern was if this Zaino will look good on top of opti seal or if i wont see any difference at all...


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

As already mention Z8 is not the worse in this category.
I cant confirm what effect the Z8 does have to you wax layer. But there must be some. After all wax has natural glazing oils present within. And for any product to bond over these oils they must be removed or have a negative effect on the wax layer. (oil and water dont mix). So these require solvents or alcohol to remove the oils and aid the product to bond to the surface.

Z8 was never designed as a wax topping ad was made to work with Zaino products. So not disrespect to it. It was us the users that started to apply it this way.

On a personal point of view. I feel if you wish a wax as an LSP then stick to this. Same goes for a sealant. But as a forum its up to the members to decide whether. This type of application is of any benefit.

That is why I asked the question about applying a sealant over a wax.
Gordon.


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

RussZS said:


> Just get some Field Glaze or similar


 Still does not answer any question, as why is the need.
Field glaze is Carnaubia based 13% if I remember rightly. But good for a wax top-up. But ask yourself one thing What keeps the nuba in solution.

There are various oils present in the mix, which will help in this process.
But there has to be an alcohol or solvent base in there also. This might explain the instruction as to spray on panel leave 30 seconds then gently wipe over. The 30 second period it to let the active ingredients evaporate and in-turn leave a semi dry wax layer to buff.

What happens to the underlying wax layer while these products are evaporating.??? 
Does it etch the lower layer and by then rebuffing you fill up the voids??

Or it there some other factors at play.

Surfactants reduce the surface tension of water. or at lease the gas in between. So reducing the interface between oils and water. So in-turn causing beading and sheeting to fail. While this interaction takes place the oils present within you wax layer are absorbed within the water. These are then redistributed on the surface and become present once more once the water evaporates. Giving the user that bling and oily wet look. But because these are now displace are no where near as durably as when they where part of the original wax layer.
Rather a lot to get you head around.
I trued to simplify this quite a bit.
Gordon.


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## DiscoDriver (Oct 27, 2009)

Hi Gordon

From reading your very interesting posts am I more or less correct in saying that if you want to apply a QD above a layer of wax then it should * be a water-based QD (or maybe the strict definition of a QD should be it is 'water-based' otherwise it's something else ie an LSP)?

*assuming you don't want to affect the wax in any way


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## BSS1980 (Nov 18, 2009)

Greg_VXR said:


> a LSP is a last stage product like a wax or sealent but read this mate it might help with your decision whether to use a QD over wax
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=147332&highlight=zaino+z8
> 
> and also read the attached thread that i give because although it isnt the worst out there if you read it can strip some of the wax which in this case seems pointless


Thanks for posting that link. I have just read through that thread and the other links in that thread from what i can gather, although i can potentially degrade the wax, some people seem to get a good result from topping up their wax with z8.


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

DiscoDriver said:


> Hi Gordon
> 
> From reading your very interesting posts am I more or less correct in saying that if you want to apply a QD above a layer of wax then it should * be a water-based QD (or maybe the strict definition of a QD should be it is 'water-based' otherwise it's something else ie an LSP)?
> 
> *assuming you don't want to affect the wax in any way


The short answer is yes.

Any product that contains alcohol or solvent will have some effect to the lower layers. Extreme examples are IPA - Alcohol. Tardis - Solvent. We all know what effect these have on any LSP.

But bare in mind any product you apply to your LSP of choice will change the beading and water behaviour, as it then becomes you upper coat. QD do the same but are short lived and since they are water base will not effect the lower layer.

I personally dont use these either, as I like to see the true water Behaviour of the LSP. Not that these do any harm.
Its just my preference.
Gordon.


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## BSS1980 (Nov 18, 2009)

caledonia said:


> BSS1980. I meant not harm in my post. So if any taken.Please except my apology.
> 
> Whether a product displaces or seals in thats for another day.
> I just have a curiosity in why members wish to do this. Surely its a waste of products, time and effort.
> ...


No offence taken:thumb:

To answer the question, _"So why do we feel then need to apply a spary sealant over a wax.??"_

I felt that as the wax degrades over time, a QD/spray sealant would be good to add protection between waxing and also for its ease and speed of aplication over a wax.


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Thanks for the reply.
Yes there is know doubt a wax diminishes over time. But this is what it was designed to do. Protect the car. it is a sacrificial layer which it does by protecting your car. 

I can see the benefits of applying a spray sealant to add protection. But thats only if there is wax left after application. You could will also be sealing in bonded contamination with in the layers. Again if there are layers still present.

Surely if you wish the self cleaning ability of a sealant then this is the way to go. Apply a sealant. Same goes for a wax layer.

Dependant on the type of product used you would essentially better of not applying the wax, as you are essentially rubbing it off. Spray type products have there place. WOWA or WOWO are good long lasting LSP, Quickness especially this time of year have good benefits also. But as a stand alone not a topper.

People seem to look as their wax layer as a precious commodity. Where is is simply no more that a sacrificial layer.


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## hartzsky (Dec 23, 2007)

As with alot of internet questions,, you will get a gazillion opinions. Best thing to do, order Z8 and test it for yourself and come to your own conclusion. When its all said and done, your opinion is all that matters.


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## BSS1980 (Nov 18, 2009)

What is WOWA and WOWO?

(Sorry, complete beginner)


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

WOWA = Wipe On Walk Away
WOWO = Wipe On Wipe Off.


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## BSS1980 (Nov 18, 2009)

Thanks again.


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## CliveP (Feb 1, 2009)

caledonia said:


> As already mention Z8 is not the worse in this category.
> I cant confirm what effect the Z8 does have to you wax layer. But there must be some. After all wax has natural glazing oils present within. And for any product to bond over these oils they must be removed or have a negative effect on the wax layer. (oil and water dont mix). So these require solvents or alcohol to remove the oils and aid the product to bond to the surface.
> 
> Z8 was never designed as a wax topping ad was made to work with Zaino products. So not disrespect to it. It was us the users that started to apply it this way.
> ...


Hi Gordon,

I always enjoy your and DaveKG's posts in my attempts to further my understanding (we met back inAugust on the Sat night before I did Dave's DA course on the Sunday, I had the Red Leon FR)...

Accepting water based QDs are probably 'best' for a little added protection at this time of year after a wash, I have ClearKote Quickshine and CG Speed detailer....to your knowledge are these basically water based and therefore doing (whatever is left of my wax) virtually no harm?

Thanks,
Clive.


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## Celticking (Oct 23, 2009)

Based on your poasts Gordon, if I did want to use a QD in between waxing what ones are water based from your knowledge?


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## DiscoDriver (Oct 27, 2009)

Celticking said:


> Based on your poasts Gordon, if I did want to use a QD in between waxing what ones are water based from your knowledge?


If you look for any that are sold in concentrated form that are made up to usable dilutions by adding water then you know you have a water soluble QD. Serious Performance Show Detailer is and so is Optimum Instant Detailer.


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## Cliff (Mar 4, 2007)

People have also diluted Z8 50/50 before


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

I strongly suggest do not diluite Z8, the best way to use it is by an atomizer sprayer. The standard sprayer use too much product. I've bought a 100ml atomizer bottle on ebay and i feel that my Z8 will last "forever".


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

I certainly wouldn't dilute it as i'm sure that it is diluted fully as it is so would affect it's performance if water is added


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## hartzsky (Dec 23, 2007)

I've diluted Z8 for years, 60/40 with spring water, it doesn't affect the performance at all.


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

hartzsky said:


> I've diluted Z8 for years, 60/40 with spring water, it doesn't affect the performance at all.


If you add water you will have just more water to dry when you wipe down. Why do you need to diluite it?


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## hartzsky (Dec 23, 2007)

ercapoccia said:


> If you add water you will have just more water to dry when you wipe down. Why do you need to diluite it?


I don't see any difference with the addition of water and how the product wipes down. I dilute it simply to get more product for the money and if it didn't perform as well I wouldn't do it.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Gordon ticks the answer boxes all the time here. Instead of worrying about what sprays to use why not just re wax. I wax every month and enjoy it. Don't use any sprays except Last Touch for a drying aid.

My wax of choice is Swissvax BOS but even in the winter I will top with Natties Blue or even Collies 476s. But these are on top of Opti Seal applied after I clayed the car in September. Which in reality does not need waxing as Opti Seal will last all winter anyway, just I love applting wax.


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## matttnt1 (Nov 29, 2011)

To the original poster;

I have a metallic black beemer that has been paint corrected and is wearing 2 coats of Dodo Juice wax.

I bought the Z-8 upon the recommendation of the guys at Shinearama and havent been disappointed. It seems the 'lift' the shine a little, especially a few weeks after waxing, when the gloss appears to diminish a little.

I would love to be able to wax the car more often, but just dont have the time, so I use the Z-8.

It's a great product in my view


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## DJBAILEY (May 7, 2011)

Everyone's getting a little too 'solventy' concious on this forum. It's becoming obsessive. You'd think that wiping a QD or applying Colli wax would be the equivalent of using panel wipe/Prep-sol on the paint.


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## MAUI (Feb 1, 2008)

matttnt1 said:


> To the original poster;
> 
> Wow, your talking to the op 3 years later.


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## matttnt1 (Nov 29, 2011)

Amazing isn't it.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

I'd agree with the opinions of the professionals on here z8 for use with zaino system is great but over wax it degrades the wax and surely can't give its best performance, stick with a normal qd for over wax
Ps not knocking z8 in any way used correctly its a fantastic product


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

matttnt1 said:


> To the original poster;
> 
> I have a metallic black beemer that has been paint corrected and is wearing 2 coats of Dodo Juice wax.
> 
> ...


did'nt check the date of this thread then lol


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