# My AWFUL Audi experience - LIVID



## asbo

So, some background. I purchase a used "approved" Audi A4 S-line 2.0 TDI from an Audi garage. 

So I take possession of the car, and decide first thing is first I am going to clean and seal the alloys (I have a thing for clean alloys). So one by one I take off the Alloys complete clean then and seal them with Cquartz UK. 

After around a week I start getting concerned with the whining noise coming whilst accelerating. This noise was there when I test drove the car but wasn't loud , and I guessed as the car had been checked it was OK.

Took the car in and got sent out on test drive with a "Master Technician" who says they need to look at the car. 

I get given an A4 13 plate for the day. When I RANG for an update, I was asked to return the A4 back to get a service car. They provided me with an A5 Cabriolet 2.0 TFSI, they said it was by way of apology as the weather was going to be nice.

I lasted with this for around a week when the fuel costs were killing me so after speaking to the Garage they inform me that my car may be a while longer as the gearbox has been deemed faulty needs to be removed, opened and examined then probably replaced. Audi main warranty was paying for this therefore Audi UK got me my next courtesy car. 

So my 3rd Courtesy car was an A6 s-line 13 plate 2.0tdi. What a beautiful car!

So after around 4 weeks of not having a car, I finally get it back. Drive it to work park it up and drive it home. However on my homeward journey (after a total of 27 miles from having it back), smoke from the engine whilst in a traffic jam on the motorway, and an awful burning smell. I managed to pull off the motorway and park up on side of a dual carriageway. Called Audi assistance who sent the RAC/AA (can't remember which) out. He instantly said "thats clutch smell that is" and agreed to follow me home as it had not completely gone and so I didn't have to wait for a truck. 

My car got towed back to the garage the next morning with me, they then organised for me to get an A7 Sportback Quattro 3.0TDI, I had this for around a week whilst they replaced the clutch and flywheel. 

So I got it back around 2 weeks ago and today was my first day at giving it a good clean up. I washed and polished it up to look like a shiny new pin. I then wanted to get rid of some of the rust from the passenger rear calliper to spray it up. So jacked the car up, when I looked at the front passenger wing I noticed that it wasn't level. (see picture 1) so looked under the sill at the front jacking point) to notice it COMPLETELY Collapsed. (see picture 2) 

Now this definitely was not there when I took the car back the first time for the gearbox (and I didn't mess with the car between that and going back to get the clutch done) So it can ONLY have been them. So tomorrow I will be reporting this to Audi and expecting them to collect my car and deliver me a courtesy car. 

Can anyone let me know if it is repairable or this is a no go?

What are peoples opinions?


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## B17BLG

Looks like somebody has missed the jacking point!! But surely they'd have ramps?


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## bidderman1969

jesus, looks a mess, how old is the car?


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## asbo

The car is a 2010 A4, the garage is actually a nice one (environment) and from the sales floor you can look through a window into the service bay (so that they can have MOT's watched) and they seem to use 4 post lifts, my guess is someone didn't adjust the pad height when they lifted my car! I am absolutely gutted to say the least!


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## Jem

Looks like it's been on a two post ramp and the arm has not been positioned correctly.


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## asbo

Jem said:


> Looks like it's been on a two post ramp and either the arm has not been positioned correctly.


That was my guess too (I did intact mean 2 post rather than 4 post!


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## uruk hai

That is shocking and with this kind of thing going on its not hard to work out why some people have little or no faith in main dealers, good luck getting it sorted !


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## Kerr

Not so good to hear. Hope you get the mess sorted out. 

Nothing more frustration than having issues with your car and people not up to doing their job. 

Common theme these days. 

Best of luck.


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## asbo

Trouble is I have had the car back for two weeks on Friday, my dad thinks I will have a hard time getting them to admit liability. However if needs be I will get a few body shops to do an assessment and use that to take them to court if they don't. Currently I will not name the garage that this is from, however should things turn sour, I will name and shame. To be honest I'm not sure wether to just ask for a full refund/replacement. I don't automatically think I am entitled to anything other than a suitable working and undamaged car. I'm not one for compo this compo that. I will certainly be on the phone to the lady from Exec relations that dealt with my "concern" email to them when I had the gearbox issue.


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## Kerr

If there was an obvious dent on a panel, I'd think you'd struggle to make an argument. 

Not many drivers check under their car to find damage like that, so 2 weeks doesn't seem such a bad timeframe.


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## Clancy

:driver:


Jem said:


> Looks like it's been on a two post ramp and the arm has not been positioned correctly.


That would be my guess too


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## asbo

Kerr said:


> If there was an obvious dent on a panel, I'd think you'd struggle to make an argument.
> 
> Not many drivers check under their car to find damage like that, so 2 weeks doesn't seem such a bad timeframe.


The garage know full well my cleaning "OCD" as far as y car is concerned, they even passed comment on how good my astra was when i took it in for part ex! When they sorted the gearbox out they didn't wash the car at my request (although they did after the clutch but i forive them for that, the guy dealing with my case had to leave as his Mrs went into labour)

I also know it was not there when I purchased the car as I gave it a big cclean, using a brush on all the panel gaps and would have noticed the abnormal gap then!

My Dad has suggested measuring the circle indent and comparing to their jack pads. Ha!


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## VW Golf-Fan

What a mess they've left your car mate, that's totally unacceptable. And these are supposedly 'professionals!' I wouldn't trust them to walk my dog nevermind work on my car. :lol:

You're quite right to get on the phone to the big wigs at Audi to complain.

Hope you get it sorted chap, keep us posed. :thumb:


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## James Bagguley

What a fiasco! if they had done their job in the first place you wouldnt be in this situation at all.

I can only sympathise and hope for your sake they do the decent thing in admitting liability, at least for the damage, if not for providing you with a duff motor from the outset.

Good luck.


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## lofty

Your experience pretty much sums up Audi dealers in general, they are extremely poor in my opinion.Between my wife and myself we owned 8 Audi's since 2007 from an A1 to a R8, but no longer own one, the main reason for that is the dealers and general crap customer service.I now drive a Porsche and the wife a new Mini Paceman, the difference in customer service/ dealers is far superior to Audi.VW need to take the head of customer relations from Porsche and ask him to show the fools at Audi how to do it correctly.


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## robertdon777

Jem said:


> Looks like it's been on a two post ramp and the arm has not been positioned correctly.


This 1 Million percent, I think you can actually see the round shape from the pads they use.

Approved used... haha I made that mistake once buying an Impreza Turbo.

Approved used just means Full Dealer history (but i wouldn't trust a dealer now anyway) and a clean car that they can put up on a forecourt for an overpriced fee. Give you a warranty provided by a third party and say than you very much:thumb:


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## Bristle Hound

Thats horrendous mate. Hope you get it sorted.

TBH I think its Dealer specific whether you get a good one or not

For example, or local BMW has a terrible reputation in the Sales and Service department, the MINI dealership is middle of the road.

The Merc garage is atrocious but the Ford garage is out of this world!

Personally I don't have a problem with my Audi garage. Been using them for 11 years now.

Individual garages more than specific brands I think :thumb:


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## STBlue

For all the trouble you have had, I would want a full refund for the car.


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## WhiteRoc_170

Sorry to hear this mate , I totally agree with the above comments. But look on the plus side at least they gave you some pretty decent courtesy cars.


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## SteveTDCi

Whilst its unfortunate this has happened, at no point have they refused to carry out any of the work, the cars supplied have been better than what you have and not some cheap little pug 107 ... I understand it can be frustrating but providing they fix it and without quibble and give you a car I wouldn't care less.

I do feel that sometimes dealers can be trouble but also some of the problems can be aimed at the customers being unrealistic (i'm not including you in this) providing it gets fixed i'd be happy keeping the miles off my own car


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## Edamski

By the sounds of it they've been rather helpful and sounds like someone's made a mistake and covered this up themselves and hope the boss didn't notice. 

Hope you get it sorted though mate!


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## asbo

SteveTDCi said:


> Whilst its unfortunate this has happened, at no point have they refused to carry out any of the work, the cars supplied have been better than what you have and not some cheap little pug 107 ... I understand it can be frustrating but providing they fix it and without quibble and give you a car I wouldn't care less.
> 
> I do feel that sometimes dealers can be trouble but also some of the problems can be aimed at the customers being unrealistic (i'm not including you in this) providing it gets fixed i'd be happy keeping the miles off my own car


WHilst I agree with everything that you have said, as you can see in my previous statements I'm not one for any type of compensation. But baring in mind that this is not a manufacturing defect and is caused by negligence! Also this will be the third time my car will have been in the garage.

I purchased the car on 17th May, I have now driven it for a total of 3 weeks and 1 day. I find this completely unacceptable.

Ash


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## asbo

So an update for everyone. I called the garage this morning and spoke to the Service Manager, he stated that they obviously need to see the damage first. So I took the car down and got seen by the workshop manager, (the Service Manager had to go out).

He started to say that their ramps do not have adjustable feet. That they use rubber blocks. I stated that I had used the jacking point in the first week of owning the car with no trouble and no damage. There is not a sign of any scratches that would indicate the car is bottomed out. That the lip that my scissor jack uses is completely intact, and that the damage is perfectly circular, this indicates that it is the misuse of a lift. 

He stated he would have to talk to the Service Manager when he returned (he was only going out for an hour supposedly) and I was at the garage at 8.30 this morning, still not information. I will give them today to get back to me and should I not hear anything I will be sending a complaint letter via recorded delivery to the head of business for the dealership and the director of the company that are the parent company of the garage.

As I have said, ultimately I love the car and just want it working, however it is getting to a point where I am beginning to have doubts about the car itself. Also baring in mind the initial fault was a whining from the gearbox, and now under heavy acceleration in 2nd and 3rd gear the whining is back. (it was booked in on Monday to get this sorted)

I will have to see what they say I suppose.

Ash


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## rf860

SteveTDCi said:


> Whilst its unfortunate this has happened, at no point have they refused to carry out any of the work, the cars supplied have been better than what you have and not some cheap little pug 107 ... I understand it can be frustrating but providing they fix it and without quibble and give you a car I wouldn't care less.
> 
> I do feel that sometimes dealers can be trouble but also some of the problems can be aimed at the customers being unrealistic (i'm not including you in this) providing it gets fixed i'd be happy keeping the miles off my own car


I must say, I've got to agree with this.

Whilst it's unfortunate that this has happened, mistakes are made in all professions.

Doesn't mean i wouldn't be angry though!

As long as they sort it to a high standard and causing you the least hassle possible, there isn't much you can do really.

I'd maybe push for some free servicing though....


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## James Bagguley

asbo said:


> the whining is back.


I can believe that, bloomin VAG gearboxes! 
I drove my 6N2 GTI really gently and carefully 90% of the time, hoping to preserve its notorious 085 (chocolate ) gearbox.

One doesent really buy a GTI model to drive everywhere like a granny!
Needless to say, going to work one night, and 4th gear had dissapeared! no warning, nothing!
Glad i bought a spare previously and had it sat waiting for that day.

I imagine thats not an option for you, so i hope for the best outcome possible.

Excuse the rant!


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## President Swirl

Sorry to hear of your troubles mate. You should say that you have lost faith with the brand, and you want your money back under the sale of goods act as the car is obviously not up to its intended use. A fortune 500 company they may be, but it's ' regular ' people who put them there.


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## Rundie

AUC's need to be treated the same as any other, 100% check over and don't trust the dealer. I spent months looking for a used BMW X5 and what I saw was shocking from many BMW dealers.
After 3 or 4 months I found a good one, even 'reputable' main dealers sell ****e, my purchase was just shy of £35K so not like I was being tight.


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## should_do_more

After seeing that I'm not even going to look under my car!
Terrible. I agree Porsche is better now but wasn't always that way. Audi and VW have always been pretty bad. I hope you get this sorted, personally I would be pushing to return it, not sure how or if that can be fixed and it would always irritate me.
Best of luck.


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## asbo

So I have had a call from the service manager whom states that - they have not caused the damage and it is impossible to do said damage with their equipment. He stated that they have it noted down by the engineer who carried out the clutch replacement that the defect was there when it came into the shop.

I stated that I had had the car a day when I took it in for the clutch and that it must have therefore been caused by the first (gearbox) repair. He said he would have to look at the job card. I stated that this was definitely not caused by myself and definitely not there when first purchasing the car. I got the impression that they were accusing me of causing the damage (definitely not!)

He then proceeded to say "we have helped you out we have replaced the gearbox, the clutch And the flywheel at a cost to the company". Well this set me off, i did inform him that it wasn't helping me out doing this but so much as of the car was faulty when I had it and that was just the repair. How did the car pass its inspection of its multiple Audi "approved used checks" with a gearbox issue (i know they will not inspect the gearbox internally but the whining was audible to even the hardest of hearing)

He asked what my feelings about this were, and what I expected, I said I want my car to be repaired to an as new standard or a refund simple, and that if the company refused to do this I would be forced to seek legal advice, at which his response was "i don't take kindly to threats" !!!

I have also raised a case with Audi UK, this due to the nature of the issue and the previous issues is being escalated to a senior manager to investigate. I am expecting to hear from them within 48 hours.

I await a response from the dealership tomorrow. The service manager did ask to see the car so I may be down there tomorrow. 

I'm fuming!


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## bidderman1969

Not surprised, with their attitude I'd have been down there causing a right ruck, go into their workshop and point out their equipment that WOULD cause the damage and tell him to stop being a d1ck about it

Well I would, :lol:


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## S63

I appreciate and understand your decision not to name the dealership (yet). I'm just wondering if it's part of a multi national group etc, what I'm trying to get at is..can you identify and find a contact for the CEO of the dealership/ group?

Throughout you have been very level headed and appear extremely capable of putting forward a good case without becoming either unreasonable or abusive in any way. I'm a great believer in going to the top and in this case a letter to the CEO with Audi HQ copied in seems the way forward. I have plenty of observations and experience of service managers and some you'll get knowhere with.

good luck.:thumb:


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## asbo

S63 said:


> I appreciate and understand your decision not to name the dealership (yet). I'm just wondering if it's part of a multi national group etc, what I'm trying to get at is..can you identify and find a contact for the CEO of the dealership/ group?
> 
> Throughout you have been very level headed and appear extremely capable of putting forward a good case without becoming either unreasonable or abusive in any way. I'm a great believer in going to the top and in this case a letter to the CEO with Audi HQ copied in seems the way forward. I have plenty of observations and experience of service managers and some you'll get knowhere with.
> 
> good luck.:thumb:


Yes it is part of a larger firm that deal in many different makes of vehicles. This was an idea I have had also, however I feel I will give the Service Manager a chance first to resolve this issue.

If not I will send the director of the parent company an email with all information and include Martin Sander (Director of Audi UK)

Thanks for your compliments, being in a customer facing role, I definitely know the power of the people that are calm, collected and cool, that don't rage abuse compared to those that do!

Ash


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## possul

When I worked at vw the mechanics never did body work checks, it was the service advisors job. I can't see Audi being much different tbh so that sounds like bull to me. Mechanic has damaged it and then reported it to try and cover his ****.
Ive seen damage been done at the dealership I worked at inc your type of damage, scuffs to bumpers etc. When service advisors were told its always a case of leave it and see if the customer notices. If they do they paid up but wrong imo should be told and fixed there and then
That has been done by a ramp leg that has not been put under far enough, slipped of the point to leave you with that damage. I know ive done it, by accident of course.
I was at ford before that and they were far better than vw for things like this. Alot better.
Here this alot with vag


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## asbo

possul said:


> When I worked at vw the mechanics never did body work checks, it was the service advisors job. I can't see Audi being much different tbh so that sounds like bull to me. Mechanic has damaged it and then reported it to try and cover his ****.
> Ive seen damage been done at the dealership I worked at inc your type of damage, scuffs to bumpers etc. When service advisors were told its always a case of leave it and see if the customer notices. If they do they paid up but wrong imo should be told and fixed there and then
> That has been done by a ramp leg that has not been put under far enough, slipped of the point to leave you with that damage. I know ive done it, by accident of course.
> I was at ford before that and they were far better than vw for things like this. Alot better.
> Here this alot with vag


Any estimation on repair costs/times and possibilities? Is there any chance it has caused structural or serious damage to the car? Also what are your thoughts in regards to refusing the car due to its history? Being that you seem to be the most knowledgeable in this specific issue, may aswell take advantage of you! 

Thanks for your help!


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## VW Golf-Fan

asbo said:


> I have also raised a case with Audi UK, this due to the nature of the issue and the previous issues is being escalated to a senior manager to investigate. I am expecting to hear from them within 48 hours.
> 
> I await a response from the dealership tomorrow. The service manager did ask to see the car so I may be down there tomorrow.
> 
> I'm fuming!


Quite right to keep on at them about it. After all, they have damaged your car whilst it was in their 'care' & I don't think it is acceptable for them to palm you off with some $hit about saying it was already there bla bla - utter tosh.

Stand your ground mate, don't let them get away with this - do whatever you think it takes to get the result you are looking for (even if that means seeking legal advice.)

Keep us posted.


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## xJay1337

Ultimately what the manager you spoke to said is true. Unfortunately you cannot PROVE it. 
So it's up to them to offer goodwill. 

Perhaps there is CCTV in the workshop (if it is a major Audi dealer then there probably will be) that could be checked. You would perhaps be able to see.

No doubt where the damage has come from but it cannot be "proven" so to speak.

I had this when an apprentice chipped one of my alloys on my old car. I kicked up a right stink and eventually got them to pay me the £65. Same old, no proof.

So now whenever I leave my car with a company I insist on a full walk around noting any damage and marks and have them agree to it in writing.
Makes me sound like a **** but hey.


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## Danny B

As having worked for main prestige dealers for 10 years as a service advisor & tech, the only proof of damage 'caused' by a customer would be on a body damage check, IF this has not been carried out it is the dealers fault & they should repair/goodwill to the amount of the repair, if your car has had repeat visits the body checks should show the damage on both visits, you should be asking to see the body checks if possible


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## asbo

Danny B said:


> As having worked for main prestige dealers for 10 years as a service advisor & tech, the only proof of damage 'caused' by a customer would be on a body damage check, IF this has not been carried out it is the dealers fault & they should repair/goodwill to the amount of the repair, if your car has had repeat visits the body checks should show the damage on both visits, you should be asking to see the body checks if possible


Supposedly they don't do body checks which is why they didn't report seeing and noting (sounds like a body check to me) the damage on the second repair. I wonder if this is why it took nearly 3 weeks to replace a gearbox, and 1 week to replace a clutch and flywheel?!


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## Danny B

The repair time seems normal for a job like that (I lost my VXR for 3 months when a wiring loom was replaced) if they have admitted to not carrying out body inspections and you have signed a job card so they 'take care' of your car I personly would ask them how they can prove the damage was on your sill panel before they started. Are they a company owned by the inchcape group?


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## possul

Not a great help with that tbh as I was a mechanic, but I would say judging by the pics id say superficial and would need that part fabricating to fit.
After the damage was done it was out of my hands. Bodyshop/service manager.
Id done my job by reporting the accident. I would help out if I could as there is no worse feeling. than damaging a customers car in such a way.
I would of never driven the car out of the garage with a wineing gearbox tbh.
I'm not yet lucky enough to buy a nice car, im still on bangers but they have alot less to go wrong.
If I ever do get the chance il inspect the car as far as i could possibly go. As soon as i bought it id get it straight on a ramp to check myself for faults. 
Ive sold cars privately which have had better prep than some sales cars ive seen.All dealers I have ever worked at have dons the body checks before the mechanic touches the car so that any damage should be accounted for by the customer.


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## ardandy

I was in very similar situation where a dealer damaged my bumper only i had paperwork from Skoda Assist basically proving the damage wasn't there before they took it. 

They denied it and it went on ages between me, them and Skoda UK who said they were powerless to do anything to force a franchised dealer to pay for it. 

They only thing that got it moving (inc after emailing Skoda UK CEO) was asking them for an official headed response so I can take the garage to court. A week later UK rang me and said there legal team doesn't want this escalating and ordered the guy on phone to get it dealt with. UK paid half and the dealer the other half. 

Basically, don't back down, make sure theres a paper trail for every communication and ask them for an official response as well as Audi UK. Need to give them 2 weeks to reply.


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## moss99

I had a couple issues with my first encounter with audi , took my A5 in for a service when i got home opened the boot and the plastic lift handle for removing the boot floor panel was pointing up at 45 degrees ,they had broken it .
Also under the the bonnet on the inner wing there is a plastic cap for an inspection hole which was missing ,i knew it was there as i had topped up the washer fluid a few days before , i went back and surprise surprise they said it must have been broken already , as for the missing plastic cover he went off and got a print out of the mechanics report which said the plastic cover was already missing !!! .
So i asked him why wasnt that the first thing he told me when i collected the car ,also no mention of it in the paperwork given back to me . 
They did sort both issues free of charge , he said he wasnt going to make a fuss over a couple of £ items !! .
Oh and they didnt stamp my service book .. not impressed


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## GT Paddy

See if you car insurance has legal expenses cover. If you do I would make a phone call to them regarding this. They are fully up to date with consumer rights and will know what to do regarding the work.


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## James Bagguley

Hope this doesent stray too far from topic but, the situation that has arisen could have occurred at any number of dealerships for any number of brands.

Just like most things, you get good and bad examples under every name.

I was also a bit brand specific when ranting earlier, but it seems gearbox engineering is an issue that plagues nearly all the major manufacturers these days 

I love my GTI by the way, which is why i havent tried hard enough to sell it!

The main thing is, lets hope that Asbo's situation is sorted without further inconvenience.


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## 182_Blue

Thread tidied at OP's request, please keep on topic from now on

To the OP, any news on this ?


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## asbo

So, update. 

I went to the garage this morning as the service manager wanted to see the car.

They took the car off me to go and jack the car up in the workshop (oh god i'm thinking maybe I should have refused this)

They then after a while call me into the workshop!

When I am walking into the workshop with the Manager one of their tech's starts mouthing off by saying "well if he is so pick about this...." and the manager has to shut him up mid sentence. (professional!)

My car is on a 2 post jack at this point, they state that the damage has obviously been caused by my jack that came with the car buckling and slipping, (Yet there is no damage to the lip that comes down acting as the tongue in an almost tongue and groove system)

I obvisouly disputed this. I use axle stands when my car is on the jack for any period it could not have slipped also I would have blooming noticed if it had, it would have dropped, I wouldn't have been able to get the wheel back on...and I would have wet myself at seeing 16k of car drop!

They smugly said "well tell us how this damage was caused by this jack" I stated it was not my position to state how it happened its my position to say it is there when it was not before. 

I left the workshop stating he needed to get the job card out and show me it on there that the damage was there when they booked it in for both jobs. 

He called me later stating it was on both reports and agreed to send me a copy of these via email. 

These reports are pen and paper, and what I deem to not be worth the paper that they are intact written on, not only did it take 3.5 hours to send this email to me (but ok I am not their only customer). They could have added the "D" marking the dent at any point. I could alter it now to add more dents and scratches myself!!!!

So on the way into work I stopped at a body shop that did some insurance work on my old car. They gave me the number for an automotive engineer, rang him and he has stated that yes it would have damaged the lip and cause a "puncture" imprint if it was my jack, and that he is willing to meet me, write a report with photos showing that my jack could not have caused that damage and what could have caused it tot he best of his knowledge / experience Obviously he cannot say "it was audi"

I have a meeting organised with the Solicitor on Monday to possibly start legal proceedings on the matter. 

Now I had got my car booked in for the whining on the gearbox to be looked into but I rang and spoke to one of the service guys to cancel this, stating I did not think it was advisable to do this with the current situation. But that the fault is still there and will need to be sorted.

My concern now is realistically how can I trust them to take my car in for the servicing that I was sold as part of the package as buying the car...I honestly do not trust them! 

The whole situation has gotten me so stressed its ridiculous! 

I have also gone into a highly (and Audi approved) body shop who state the damage would cost ~£1000 to fix, it would need to be pulled re-shaped and also the stretched metal cut out and new fabricated.

Ash


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## asbo

I will also point out there is absolutely no damage to my jack, it is not mis-shaped scratched or anything!


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## Jem

I use two and four post ramps all day long, that is clearly from the foot of a two post ramp.

Good luck!


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## PugIain

I got nothing out of vauxhall after their dealership put a big dent in the door of my previously undented car (they even suggested they werent resposible for the lack of pas fluid in it!)I just got the old "it wasn't us sir" line. Luckily it was in a reasonably accessable spot so I got most of it out my self.


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## 182_Blue

I was going to ask if you noticed CCTV in the service area but I don't think that's going to help as they seem to be closing ranks anyway , it's going to be a real tricky one, when you did the brakes did you get any pictures that showed no damage to your car ?.


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## asbo

So my jack supposedly caused this damage, it slipped off after twisting / buckling.

So can anyone explain why my jack is in such perfect condition, not twisted or warped, if it had have taken a nose dive into the metal work of my car surely there would be a deep scratch/mis-shaped part. If it was warped it would not extend. Take a look!


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## asbo

Shaun said:


> I was going to ask if you noticed CCTV in the service area but I don't think that's going to help as they seem to be closing ranks anyway , it's going to be a real tricky one, when you did the brakes did you get any pictures that showed no damage to your car ?.


Unfortunately with the way I park on my drive and the drivers side being the nearest side to the house and in the shade I started with that side. And only got onto the passenger side after giving it a good wash and polish, and it was at the time of doing the passenger side that I noticed the damage.


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## griffin1907

don't suppose you or a neighbour have CCTV that covers your car, it'll show when you've been doing stuff on it perhaps?

Have you been able to get up close and personal with the service area to have a look at what might have caused the damage?


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## asbo

griffin1907 said:


> don't suppose you or a neighbour have CCTV that covers your car, it'll show when you've been doing stuff on it perhaps?
> 
> Have you been able to get up close and personal with the service area to have a look at what might have caused the damage?


Unfortuantely not in regards to the CCTV although it's on order :wall::wall::wall:

As for the garage, yep I was in there this morning, they definitely do have 2 post jacks, but also they have another workshop at the other side of the sight which I know of, didn't get into that one though!  They also do have trolley jacks obviously.


----------



## uruk hai

asbo said:


> So my jack supposedly caused this damage, it slipped off after twisting / buckling.
> 
> So can anyone explain why my jack is in such perfect condition, not twisted or warped, if it had have taken a nose dive into the metal work of my car surely there would be a deep scratch/mis-shaped part. If it was warped it would not extend. Take a look!


I refuse to believe that the jack supplied with the car could end up causing the damage shown in the pictures and I think it's obvious that they are saying and doing anything in order to abdicate their responsibility to you the customer and the damage to the car. It really is shocking and if I'm honest quite concerning for a main dealer, the very people who claim to know your car better than anyone to conduct themselves with all the professionalism and integrity of a back street shark.

I would be doing exactly what you are and I hope you get a fair result, when you go to a main agent (regardless of make) both you and your car should be receiving the most effective, efficient and professional service possible. I can only imagine that the person responsible for the damage to your car is guilty of being either reckless, a moron or both !

To be honest if I had read this in the media I would have struggled to believe it !


----------



## asbo

uruk hai said:


> I refuse to believe that the jack supplied with the car could end up causing the damage shown in the pictures and I think it's obvious that they are saying and doing anything in order to abdicate their responsibility to you the customer and the damage to the car. It really is shocking and if I'm honest quite concerning for a main dealer, the very people who claim to know your car better than anyone to conduct themselves with all the professionalism and integrity of a back street shark.
> 
> I would be doing exactly what you are and I hope you get a fair result, when you go to a main agent (regardless of make) both you and your car should be receiving the most effective, efficient and professional service possible. I can only imagine that the person responsible for the damage to your car is guilty of being either reckless, a moron or both !
> 
> To be honest if I had read this in the media I was have struggled to believe it !


Thank you for your positive and reassuring comments on my actions, I am doing my absolute best to stay calm in the situation. To be more or less called a liar by an official Audi garage which is part of a Multi-national franchise is hurtful, I may say somewhat more than the damage being done itself! I mean I can fully understand that the Service Manager may not be aware that it was caused by his team, or a member there of, and maybe they have covered themselves with the paperwork.

I only hope that Audi UK assist in the resolution of the issue without the need to take it to the legal levels I am willing/forced to.

I am also so glad that what I deem to be people in the know (on a forum dedicated to bodywork care/expertise) and people in the industry agree with my assessment and situation.


----------



## asbo

I may also point out that when I disputed the manufacturers jack causing this damage the response was "it was we see it all the time" (does this mean there is a non-fit for purpose issue with this then?

Also supposedly the jack is not designed to lift the car up and down and up and down.......my thought it the jack is there to assist to change the wheel, to change the wheel the car has to go up and down! Eurgh


----------



## Ross

Sounds and looks like a cack handed mechanic.


----------



## uruk hai

I know you've already started on a course of action and as I said it seems to me to be the best way to escalate the issue in a reasonable manner but I wonder if things don't unfold in what you feel is a satisfactory way it may be worth a phone call or email to Auto Express ?

They do seem to have a habit of "encouraging" dealers to do the right thing !


----------



## asbo

uruk hai said:


> I know you've already started on a course of action and as I said it seems to me to be the best way to escalate the issue in a reasonable manner but I wonder if things don't unfold in what you feel is a satisfactory way it may be worth a phone call or email to Auto Express ?
> 
> They do seem to have a habit of "encouraging" dealers to do the right thing !


I am considering a number of directions to turn should things not work out. But I would only use these as a last resort, media, and large car related "influences" are definitely one of them.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## asbo

I am wondering if anyone here...especially some of the larger organisations that are on the site have any connections in the Audi brand! haha


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

To be honest, with the threat of you intending to start legal action against them - you'd think that they'd be pooing themselves & swooning round you.


----------



## asbo

VW Golf-Fan said:


> To be honest, with the threat of you intending to start legal action against them - you'd think that they'd be pooing themselves & swooning round you.


I cannot decide if this is sarcastic or a real comment haha, I will assume positive intent and take it as a non-sarcastic comment. I suppose they believe in, the big dog never looses!


----------



## bidderman1969

I'd have whipped the jack out handed to the d1ck, and saying "f#*%ing show me how it's done then!"

P.S, maybe I wouldn't be any help in your situation :lol:


----------



## blacktar

best of luck with this. probably be a long road to get sorted but i think eventually audi will fix for you as its seems obvious they caused damage. but i see what ya mean about trusting them to service the car. tough one don't think i could let them near it.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

asbo said:


> I cannot decide if this is sarcastic or a real comment haha, I will assume positive intent and take it as a non-sarcastic comment. I suppose they believe in, the big dog never looses!


At last, the man responds to my post!! :lol:

It was meant as non-sarcastic chap, just really think Audi are being tw*ts about the whole thing - stubborn bunch so they are.


----------



## SuperColin

Clearly the damage can't have been caused by the Audi jack supplied with the car, otherwise the vertical metal part under the car would have been totally twisted.

Easy to see that the damage has a roundy shape, probably done by a 2 post ramp.
Have you seen any at the dealer's place ? Go there and take pictures of those ramps.

Regarding the law, you can't prove it wasn't there before, they can't prove it was, the hand written paper mean's nothing in front of a judge.

What you can prove is that the car had many defects that could have been fixed before Audi sold the car, they are professionals and they have a legal responsabilty according to that. Does is sound professional to be forced to return the car several times right after you bought it ? No.

Audi is going to claim they assumed their responsability, and to satisfy you they gave upgraded courtesy cars, that is : giving sweet taste to ****. Maybe they just had no A3/A4 available at this time as courtesy car.

How many times the car had to be lifted on a ramp to be checked/fixed ? Many times.
Do you have a 2 post ramp at home ? No. And clearly the damage can't have been done by the jack supplied with the car.

You detail your car, means you care about it, how many peole take the wheels off to clean them ? People who pay attention to details, those people who care about their car. Would these people lift their car like idiots ? No.

So bad I'm not a layer in UK.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Have you actually used the standard jack to change a tyre in your ownership ?


----------



## andy665

The line they could take will have nothing to do with them suggesting that the damage was caused by the car jack and its misuse

They will probably argue that they did not cause the damage and could suggest that the damage was caused by a.n.other garage that you could have used

The onus is on you to prove that they caused the damage and therein lies the problem - its not fair but I fear this could be a long and costly battle

I know to my own cost that fighting a case where you know you are in the right is absolutely no guarantee of actually getting the result you feel you deserve


----------



## uruk hai

andy665 said:


> The line they could take will have nothing to do with them suggesting that the damage was caused by the car jack and its misuse
> 
> They will probably argue that they did not cause the damage and could suggest that the damage was caused by a.n.other garage that you could have used
> 
> The onus is on you to prove that they caused the damage and therein lies the problem - its not fair but I fear this could be a long and costly battle
> 
> I know to my own cost that fighting a case where you know you are in the right is absolutely no guarantee of actually getting the result you feel you deserve


While I don't like it I do have to agree with the above comments, the problem is that it's not what you know but what you can prove that matters !
Having said that I wouldn't let that deter me and would fight my corner as far and as long as is reasonably possible.

All you ever expected and wanted was the sort of service that these places repeatedly tell us sets them apart from "the rest" !


----------



## DW58

SteveTDCi said:


> Have you actually used the standard jack to change a tyre in your ownership ?


Judging by the lack of paint damage/scratches etc., the OP's jack looks like it's hardly - if ever - been used.


----------



## possul

Not a chance that's been caused by your jack. It would of took paint of your car.
From what I remember there was no scratchs that says to me a ramp as they normally have rubber pads on the end and don't scratch them, just dent.

Good luck


----------



## Paintmaster1982

I used to work for a Mazda and Mitsubishi dealer as a parts assistant about 10 years ago. I remember going into the garage to pass a mechanic some parts for a mint classic Mitsubishi he was working on. I looked at the 2 post ramp the car was on and noticed that it had completely flattened the jacking point. I pointed this out to the mechanic working on the car. He shrugged his shoulders and just laughed.

I couldn't believe his attitude. Like any job it loses its novelty. These people are paid to be happy and have a smile on their face day to day even when in a bad mood. They really do not give a crap about you or your car.

Fight it all the way!


----------



## MEH4N

Cant believe youve had so much rotton luck with your Audi mate. You would think that buying from a dealer would offer peace of mind. Hope you win this. These dealers try to get out of everything and just dont care about cars anymore, just profits.


----------



## S63

Too late for Ash but a valueable tip for us all. When you take your car into a dealership ask to witness the bodywork check and furthermore if there is no damage of any kind have "no dents or scratches" written on the job card, as was stated earlier it's all too easy to add false info on the job card but more difficult to disguise your no damage statement with your signature below.


----------



## 182_Blue

As above but if your a little embarrassed by that though i have been known to pull up at the dealers and do a quick video of the car using my phone, firstly showing the odometer and clock/ date then a short video of the exterior including alloys etc etc, this is obviously only not embarrassing if there is nobody around LOL.


----------



## DW58

That's actually a damned good idea Shaun - something I'm going to do in future.


----------



## Bristle Hound

Shaun said:


> As above but if your a little embarrassed by that though i have been known to pull up at the dealers and do a quick video of the car using my phone, firstly showing the odometer and clock/ date then a short video of the exterior including alloys etc etc, this is obviously only not embarrassing if there is nobody around LOL.


Food for thought Shaun ... :thumb:


----------



## rf860

After seeing my car in the shade this morning, I've realised that I am myself now a victim of dealership careflessness to my car. Nasty large dent on the drivers quarter panel. Couldn't see it yesterday because the sun was shining directly onto the paint. 

I've phoned up the dealership straight away and reported it with the general manager. I've to go in on Monday and they will look at it with the service manager. 

No bodywork check was done when dropping the car off. 

Hope it doesn't turn out *** for tat like the OPs situation. 

Best of luck to the OP in getting this al fixed!!


----------



## Rundie

Maybe it's getting to a stage where we get dealerships to check and sign for the condition of the car when they take it in, when there's a problem they seem to magic a knocked up form that says the damage wasn't there at the end of the job.


----------



## asbo

This is definitely what I will be doing with anyone in the future, I will not feel embarrassed at all and neither should anyone else, I work for a huge corporation, we service customers devices all day every day and I have to do a condition report and go through it with the customer when I book their device in and hand it back to them. Its to protect both sides ultimately. I may point out that if damage is on a unit that is not marked AND SIGNED by the customer then we repair it no quibble!

My main point is that nowhere do they have my signature that states I have checked the car with them, they did not do this at any point with the car going into them or going out.

The fact is that now I do not think I will be happy with anything less than a refund with the issues that I have had. It turns out the whining that I am now getting could be the turbo and to my knowledge the turbo should not loudly whine and it is probably bearings? (yet something else going wrong) 

If I did get a refund I would be more than happy to go to a different company (not the franchise that I purchased this Audi from) and buy another Audi. I really rate their cars and I do not have a problem with them, they have not damaged my car, they have infact fixed my car and provided me with the nice courtesy cars (these were not provided through the garage, they were through Europcar Audi scheme)

I have found some more enlightening evidence that may vastly help my case, but I need to check this with my Solicitor on Monday. I feel that as this is going down the legal route that I should not divulge everything on here. 

I thank everyone for their support, assistance and comments. 

Hopefully Monday should bring more luck, especially as I am expecting to hear from a Senior Manager at Audi who I am told will be investigating this also.

It will be a slow process but I am hopeful that truth will out!


----------



## uruk hai

Thanks for taking the time to update and good luck :thumb:


----------



## Rundie

Well done on keeping the extra evidence quiet, I was going to suggest that. Had a similar experience a few years back when rejecting a brand new car that had massive repairs down one entire side of it, dealership had pranged it and done a poor repair and tried to palm it off without telling us when we went to pick it up on Sept 1st !!
I plastered pics and my experience all over the owners club forum, employed an Independent Engineer who was willing to go to court, it was this that made Mazda UK sit up and listen. They sent an Engineer/Paint specialist from head office and when he turned up he let slip how good the pictures were online 

Goes to show they scour the net in these sort of cases, I ended up with a new replacement car, checked when it arrived at the dealership by me and their specialist, plus a grand in compo to cover my costs including a 'goodwill' gesture.
The best bit was when we went to collect the car first time and I found the 'repair' I shouted the place down, suprised they didn't call the police, customers were walking in and leaving after I approached each one and told them what the dealership were like :thumb: Later, when I picked up the replacement car I had a couple of sales guy tell me on the quiet that I was a legend and the dealership had it coming to them for a long time.


----------



## asbo

Rundie said:


> Well done on keeping the extra evidence quite, I was going to suggest that. Had a similar experience a few years back when rejecting a brand new car that had massive repairs down one entire side of it, dealership had pranged it and done a poor repair and tried to palm it off without telling us when we went to pick it up on Sept 1st !!
> I plastered pics and my experience all over the owners club forum, employed an Independent Engineer who was willing to go to court, it was this that made Mazda UK sit up and listen. They sent an Engineer/Paint specialist from head office and when he turned up he let slip how good the pictures were online
> 
> Goes to show they scour the net in these sort of cases, I ended up with a new replacement car, checked when it arrived at the dealership by me and their specialist, plus a grand in compo to cover my costs including a 'goodwill' gesture.
> The best bit was when we went to collect the car first time and I found the 'repair' I shouted the place down, suprised they didn't call the police, customers were walking in and leaving after I approached each one and told them what the dealership were like :thumb: Later, when I picked up the replacement car I had a couple of sales guy tell me on the quite that I was a legend and the dealership had it coming to them for a long time.


Yup this one is staying to myself, until I have to either hand all evidence in for examination by "both sides" or i need it if any sooner.

Good on you Rundie! I have tried to keep calm through the hole process (and managed I may add) as I don't want to give them ANY ammunition to use against me in any way shape or form!!! Nice result for you though!


----------



## Danny B

Good luck with this Ash, Hope this gets sorted quickly!


----------



## craigeh123

Good luck and don't admit to taking your wheels off - they will just say you damaged it


----------



## Ross

Good dont back down


----------



## asbo

craigeh123 said:


> Good luck and don't admit to taking your wheels off - they will just say you damaged it


I can understand what you are saying but it would be obvious that I have as the callipers are sprayed back to silver rather than sprayed rust....

I refuse to lie in this case especially if it goes to court. My view is that if a Judge hears that I'm a hobbyist detailer, yep I took my wheels off but that I used axle stands in the correct places therefore having it drop would be near impossible, I think the very fact that I am admitting to taking the wheels off in the first week shows some integrity on my part.

I feel as though I don't have to lie as I have done NOTHING wrong. I should be able to take the wheels off of my own car.


----------



## xJay1337

The point is the case going to court, is pointless.

As I have said before there is no PROOF in either way. There is no proof admissible in court that says the car was not damaged before you took it to them, or vice versa.

The judge will hear that you are a (presumably) untrained mechanical person and the garage is full of factory trained technicians, who noted the car had damage to the sill prior to work commencing, and in conjunction with the lack of evidence, from your side of the table, will side with them.

In a county court you'd be left with a big bill and in the small claims court well who's to say the costs but it wouldn't me too much - point being there is no proof in either direction unfortunately for you.


----------



## S63

xJay1337 said:


> The point is the case going to court, is pointless.
> 
> As I have said before there is no PROOF in either way. There is no proof admissible in court that says the car was not damaged before you took it to them, or vice versa.
> 
> The judge will hear that you are a (presumably) untrained mechanical person and the garage is full of factory trained technicians, who noted the car had damage to the sill prior to work commencing, and in conjunction with the lack of evidence, from your side of the table, will side with them.
> 
> In a county court you'd be left with a big bill and in the small claims court well who's to say the costs but it wouldn't me too much - point being there is no proof in either direction unfortunately for you.


Your take on this is spot on, sadly for the OP. In my time working in a dealership they rarely go to court without a very strong belief they will win. Something Ash needs to consider carefully.


----------



## asbo

Ladies and gents don't forget my other evidence that I have. With this information I will take my solicitors opinion on what chances I have, but thanks for all of your input.

Ash


----------



## S63

asbo said:


> Ladies and gents don't forget my other evidence that I have. With this information I will take my solicitors opinion on what chances I have, but thanks for all of your input.
> 
> Ash


Apologies if you've already mentioned this, the "evidence" you have, has this been presented to the dealership?


----------



## xJay1337

This "evidence" that you've not posted on here (unless I have missed it?)
Because that was the whole point - you hadn't gotten any as no inspection was done. 

Sorry if I sound like I'm against you I'm just being realistic.


----------



## asbo

asbo said:


> This is definitely what I will be doing with anyone in the future, I will not feel embarrassed at all and neither should anyone else, I work for a huge corporation, we service customers devices all day every day and I have to do a condition report and go through it with the customer when I book their device in and hand it back to them. Its to protect both sides ultimately. I may point out that if damage is on a unit that is not marked AND SIGNED by the customer then we repair it no quibble!
> 
> My main point is that nowhere do they have my signature that states I have checked the car with them, they did not do this at any point with the car going into them or going out.
> 
> The fact is that now I do not think I will be happy with anything less than a refund with the issues that I have had. It turns out the whining that I am now getting could be the turbo and to my knowledge the turbo should not loudly whine and it is probably bearings? (yet something else going wrong)
> 
> If I did get a refund I would be more than happy to go to a different company (not the franchise that I purchased this Audi from) and buy another Audi. I really rate their cars and I do not have a problem with them, they have not damaged my car, they have infact fixed my car and provided me with the nice courtesy cars (these were not provided through the garage, they were through Europcar Audi scheme)
> 
> I have found some more enlightening evidence that may vastly help my case, but I need to check this with my Solicitor on Monday. I feel that as this is going down the legal route that I should not divulge everything on here.
> 
> I thank everyone for their support, assistance and comments.
> 
> Hopefully Monday should bring more luck, especially as I am expecting to hear from a Senior Manager at Audi who I am told will be investigating this also.
> 
> It will be a slow process but I am hopeful that truth will out!


I mention some evidence that I realised. It may be something it may be nothing, it may be everything, as of yet I do not know, this hasn't been given to the garage yet as I do not want them to try and get an excuse. I will update tomorrow when the solicitor has given me his thoughts on the matter.

I have also emailed the RMI an organisation that the garage is a member of. Also tomorrow I will be expecting to get a call from Audi UK in regards to the matter hopefully they may put a bit of pressure on the garage also.

Ashley


----------



## Kerr

If the car is on finance or you paid even part with a credit card, contact them for help. 

If the car is on finance it's owned by the finance company and they have far more power to take on the garage.


----------



## asbo

Kerr said:


> If the car is on finance or you paid even part with a credit card, contact them for help.
> 
> If the car is on finance it's owned by the finance company and they have far more power to take on the garage.


Unfortunately neither of these


----------



## S63

At this point I disagree with your strategy. The worst case scenario is for this to go to court, if you have a shred of evidence that may prove their wrong doing then present it to them. Saving it for a court hearing is like playing a game of poker with an average hand.


----------



## xJay1337

asbo said:


> *I mention some evidence that I realised. It may be something it may be nothing, it may be everything, as of yet I do not know, *this hasn't been given to the garage yet as I do not want them to try and get an excuse. I will update tomorrow when the solicitor has given me his thoughts on the matter.
> 
> I have also emailed the RMI an organisation that the garage is a member of. Also tomorrow I will be expecting to get a call from Audi UK in regards to the matter hopefully they may put a bit of pressure on the garage also.
> 
> Ashley


So that would be nothing then? :lol:

As S63 say honestly that is the last thing you want at this point in time. Back off the whole court case thing for now and play things by ear bud.

Threatening legal action isn't exactly going to win any favors at the dealership...


----------



## Cookies

Any further word from the garage/solicitor etc today? This is a better cliff hanger than any episode of Eastenders....

Hope you get a decision in your favour in all seriousness though as it's shameful on the dealership's part for damaging your car and not saying anything. Sadly it's just a reflection on he way people behave nowadays - the 'it wasn't me' mentality. Shocking.

Cooks


----------



## S63

Cookies said:


> . Sadly it's just a reflection on he way people behave nowadays - the 'it wasn't me' mentality. Shocking.
> 
> Cooks


And sadly this often due to poor management. We all make mistakes and that doesnt exclude techs. Often they're made to pay for their mistakes or given a disciplininary, doesn't encourage honesty.


----------



## asbo

So, teaser for the cliffhanger. 

My solicitor says there are grounds for court action for the damage, but the main fact is the car due to being faulty multiple times in the first 6 months would be deemed as not fit for purpose before sale!

He stated that obviously the sales of goods action would be the best one to go for due to it costing me less to action. Then I wouldn't in a sense need to action the damage caused by the garage.

This said I have had this conversation with Audi UK as I refuse to deal anymore with the garage of purchase, frankly I don't trust them. 

I drove to a different garage today (Audi) but from a different franchise and they were blooming fantastic! They got a tech to come and out with me and check the new whining sound, I had a very long conversation with him and explained all the history. He seemed amazed that they did not replace the clutch and flywheel at point of gearbox change. He seemed to agree with my (and all of yours) assessments that I wouldn't have caused the damage.

It turns out now that the new whining is actually the turbo, I explained how it is getting louder progressively, and now you don't even need to floor the car to hear the sound just normal driving will do it. He said that it is louder than it should be and would need it to be checked out. Obviously I didn't book it in but called Audi UK straight away saying this. 

They are now awaiting (as they have been all day) for the head of business for the garage that sold and serviced the car so far. I have explained that I would not be willing for this car to be repaired again enough is enough and I just want a refund on the vehicle. I do not want anymore dealings with this garage but would happily have another Audi as I love the brand and the cars they make.

Hopefully the next few days will see some good news!!!


As I said in a previous comment, I am an IT tech myself, I repair machines all day everyday, and yep, I make mistakes only the other day I slipped with a screwdriver a scratched an LCD panel, LCD panel was ordered straight away, customer was updated honestly. No problem. This is how it should be done!!


----------



## 182_Blue

Good to hear your getting better service from another dealer, keep us informed.


----------



## craigeh123

Best of luck , lets hope they sort you a refund lively and you get a new car sorted out


----------



## Kerr

You might find the turbo whining might be to do with the exhaust not being on right after the gearbox work. They might have not tightened it up somewhere or knocked it loose in the process. 

Would add weight to your argument that the garage isn't up to the job. 

Hopefully the new garage is much better. That said what they say to gain your custom and what they really do are often two very different things.


----------



## Cookies

I absolutely agree that this is down to poor management but also short-sightedness. It may cost £1000 to fix asbo's car. But they'll have lost a customer, most probably for life. That hacked off customer will tell all family members, friends, friends of friends.... so the ultimate long-term cost to that dealership of the mistreatment of one single customer could run to many thousands of pounds - something that could have very easily been rectified quickly and a win-win situation reached.

Ah well - I suppose otherwise it would have left us with no cliff-hanger of a thread to read. :thumb:

Good luck btw!

Cooks


----------



## Danny B

asbo said:


> So, teaser for the cliffhanger.
> 
> My solicitor says there are grounds for court action for the damage, but the main fact is the car due to being faulty multiple times in the first 6 months would be deemed as not fit for purpose before sale!
> 
> He stated that obviously the sales of goods action would be the best one to go for due to it costing me less to action. Then I wouldn't in a sense need to action the damage caused by the garage.
> 
> This said I have had this conversation with Audi UK as I refuse to deal anymore with the garage of purchase, frankly I don't trust them.
> 
> I drove to a different garage today (Audi) but from a different franchise and they were blooming fantastic! They got a tech to come and out with me and check the new whining sound, I had a very long conversation with him and explained all the history. He seemed amazed that they did not replace the clutch and flywheel at point of gearbox change. He seemed to agree with my (and all of yours) assessments that I wouldn't have caused the damage.
> 
> It turns out now that the new whining is actually the turbo, I explained how it is getting louder progressively, and now you don't even need to floor the car to hear the sound just normal driving will do it. He said that it is louder than it should be and would need it to be checked out. Obviously I didn't book it in but called Audi UK straight away saying this.
> 
> They are now awaiting (as they have been all day) for the head of business for the garage that sold and serviced the car so far. I have explained that I would not be willing for this car to be repaired again enough is enough and I just want a refund on the vehicle. I do not want anymore dealings with this garage but would happily have another Audi as I love the brand and the cars they make.
> 
> Hopefully the next few days will see some good news!!!
> 
> As I said in a previous comment, I am an IT tech myself, I repair machines all day everyday, and yep, I make mistakes only the other day I slipped with a screwdriver a scratched an LCD panel, LCD panel was ordered straight away, customer was updated honestly. No problem. This is how it should be done!!


Things seem to be looking up :thumb:


----------



## asbo

Kerr said:


> You might find the turbo whining might be to do with the exhaust not being on right after the gearbox work. They might have not tightened it up somewhere or knocked it loose in the process.
> 
> Would add weight to your argument that the garage isn't up to the job.
> 
> Hopefully the new garage is much better. That said what they say to gain your custom and what they really do are often two very different things.


If this was the case, it would be yet another nail in their coffin!


----------



## James Bagguley

Result! i admire your tenacity, understandable given the costs and inconvenience endured, but impressive none the less.

I look forward to the outcome, and hope the result is win/win for you, the least you deserve.

Best of luck.


----------



## DW58

asbo said:


> So, teaser for the cliffhanger.
> 
> My solicitor says there are grounds for court action for the damage, but the main fact is the car due to being faulty multiple times in the first 6 months would be deemed as not fit for purpose before sale!
> 
> He stated that obviously the sales of goods action would be the best one to go for due to it costing me less to action. Then I wouldn't in a sense need to action the damage caused by the garage.
> 
> This said I have had this conversation with Audi UK as I refuse to deal anymore with the garage of purchase, frankly I don't trust them.
> 
> I drove to a different garage today (Audi) but from a different franchise and they were blooming fantastic! They got a tech to come and out with me and check the new whining sound, I had a very long conversation with him and explained all the history. He seemed amazed that they did not replace the clutch and flywheel at point of gearbox change. He seemed to agree with my (and all of yours) assessments that I wouldn't have caused the damage.
> 
> It turns out now that the new whining is actually the turbo, I explained how it is getting louder progressively, and now you don't even need to floor the car to hear the sound just normal driving will do it. He said that it is louder than it should be and would need it to be checked out. Obviously I didn't book it in but called Audi UK straight away saying this.
> 
> They are now awaiting (as they have been all day) for the head of business for the garage that sold and serviced the car so far. I have explained that I would not be willing for this car to be repaired again enough is enough and I just want a refund on the vehicle. I do not want anymore dealings with this garage but would happily have another Audi as I love the brand and the cars they make.
> 
> Hopefully the next few days will see some good news!!!
> 
> As I said in a previous comment, I am an IT tech myself, I repair machines all day everyday, and yep, I make mistakes only the other day I slipped with a screwdriver a scratched an LCD panel, LCD panel was ordered straight away, customer was updated honestly. No problem. This is how it should be done!!


Just bear one thing in mind if you follow the legal route ... ...

Whether you win or loose the solicitor will have his pound of flesh. If you win presumably you'll get costs, but if you loose you will have to foot the bill which knowing the legal profession will be hefty.

Seriously consider if you are prepared to take this risk.


----------



## asbo

DW58 said:


> Just bear one thing in mind if you follow the legal route ... ...
> 
> Whether you win or loose the solicitor will have his pound of flesh. If you win presumably you'll get costs, but if you loose you will have to foot the bill which knowing the legal profession will be hefty.
> 
> Seriously consider if you are prepared to take this risk.


My insurance legal cover would cover the costs of this. As of yet I am hoping to not go to full legal and have explained to Audi UK that if the garage do not resolve this the way that I would like without going down legal avenues (which my solicitor has stated that I have a more than good chance of winning) due to the sales of goods act, "fit for purpose and satisfactory quality" Then I will be happy to, hopefully they will see sense and not waste time!


----------



## xJay1337

Kerr said:


> You might find the turbo whining might be to do with the exhaust not being on right after the gearbox work. They might have not tightened it up somewhere or knocked it loose in the process.
> 
> Would add weight to your argument that the garage isn't up to the job.
> 
> Hopefully the new garage is much better. That said what they say to gain your custom and what they really do are often two very different things.


I don't think you have to drop the exhaust when doing anything to the gearbox on these cars but I have not worked on these cars.
Even so I struggle to think how an exhaust causes turbo whine. VAG turbos are naturally noisy.

The only thing you do need to do is remove (on all the Golf platform cars with front mount intercoolers) the front passenger side intercooler hose for clearance when dropping the gearbox. The clips are notoriously crap as they use a hook style clamp rather than the usual jubilee style.

I would not deem any of the issues proving the car to be faulty under the sales of goods act at all. It still functions as a car and unfortunately cars have problems.
My GTI that I've bought just under 3 months ago now has had more problems than my old Golf in the 2 1/2 years of ownership yet (low oil pressure, bushes, rust, misfire, etc) it's just part and parcel of owning a car :thumb:

Do some research on that act before you go in and make yourself seem like a tool. Sometimes empowering yourself with the acts can get you absolutely nowhere as I know many people who are high up in retail and any good will that you would get, when people threaten you with the sales of goods act etc gets you stonewalled and told to write a letter to head office.

I hope you get some good news but again I'm being the side of reality here.

I mean gearbox noises and turbo noises are completely different, I don't see how they can be confused.
One would be constant or perhaps related to load and/or gear selected and the other would be when building boost. Have you used VCDS or ELSAWIN or fitted a boost gauge to monitor boost levels to see when the noise comes and what the turbo is actually doing?

In your OP you state they had replaced the clutch and flywheel (although maybe not at the first instance?) and that the horrible burning smell is what caused you to break down? Ergo nothing to do with the turbo. 
Very confused.


----------



## possul

Later ones are having issuer with gaskets between turbo and dpf.
Can whistle through when could. Quick removal of heat shield and if black soot is present you know it's been leaking.
I do agree with jay through, tread carefully


----------



## asbo

xJay1337 said:


> I don't think you have to drop the exhaust when doing anything to the gearbox on these cars but I have not worked on these cars.
> Even so I struggle to think how an exhaust causes turbo whine. VAG turbos are naturally noisy.
> 
> The only thing you do need to do is remove (on all the Golf platform cars with front mount intercoolers) the front passenger side intercooler hose for clearance when dropping the gearbox. The clips are notoriously crap as they use a hook style clamp rather than the usual jubilee style.
> 
> I would not deem any of the issues proving the car to be faulty under the sales of goods act at all. It still functions as a car and unfortunately cars have problems.
> My GTI that I've bought just under 3 months ago now has had more problems than my old Golf in the 2 1/2 years of ownership yet (low oil pressure, bushes, rust, misfire, etc) it's just part and parcel of owning a car :thumb:
> 
> Do some research on that act before you go in and make yourself seem like a tool. Sometimes empowering yourself with the acts can get you absolutely nowhere as I know many people who are high up in retail and any good will that you would get, when people threaten you with the sales of goods act etc gets you stonewalled and told to write a letter to head office.
> 
> I hope you get some good news but again I'm being the side of reality here.
> 
> I mean gearbox noises and turbo noises are completely different, I don't see how they can be confused.
> One would be constant or perhaps related to load and/or gear selected and the other would be when building boost. Have you used VCDS or ELSAWIN or fitted a boost gauge to monitor boost levels to see when the noise comes and what the turbo is actually doing?
> 
> In your OP you state they had replaced the clutch and flywheel (although maybe not at the first instance?) and that the horrible burning smell is what caused you to break down? Ergo nothing to do with the turbo.
> Very confused.


So my solicitor has advised that yes my case does fall under the sales of goods act with the car not of satisfactory quality, you would not expect a 2010 car of that value to have such major repairs needed, the sales of goods act states that if the fault occurs in the first 6 months of purchase it is up to the retailer to PROVE that the faults were not there when the item was sold, if they cannot then it is deemed they were, the fit for purpose part of it is a grey area.

The car went in for whining on the gearbox, and then on the day I got it back the clutch burnt out whilst on the motorway. Now I have had the car back from having both of these done, there is another whining noise coming when accelerating. The workshop manager at the garage I bought the car from stated it was some noise cancellation foam that was probably split and needed replacing. The master tech who came out with me states that this is bull, he says that yep all Audi vehicles (with a turbo) have a slight turbo noise but that mine is excessive and needs to be checked out.

Would you deem that a £16000 car, that is an approved used vehicle that has gone through a very extensive 146 point check before being allowed to become "authorised" and then after sale needs a £4000 gearbox, a clutch, and a flywheel, and then maybe a turbo charger, and then a front window trim (this is minor but something else that is not right with the car), after only 6 weeks to be of satisfactory quality? I certainly don't!


----------



## possul

Didn't you state somewhere that you knew it had a whine when you bought it and test drove it? 
I would of walked away at that point


----------



## uruk hai

Once again thanks for the update :thumb:



asbo said:


> Would you deem that a £16000 car, that is an approved used vehicle that has gone through a very extensive 146 point check before being allowed to become "authorised" and then after sale needs a £4000 gearbox, a clutch, and a flywheel, and then maybe a turbo charger, and then a front window trim (this is minor but something else that is not right with the car), after only 6 weeks to be of satisfactory quality? I certainly don't!


No, I think it's a disgusting shambles and I'm not surprised to hear about the "very extensive check" ! When I bought mine it had supposedly been through a 132 point check, very rigorous they told me ! After a few days I found a problem that had been missed by the "rigorous" check and if that wasn't bad enough it was missed during the MOT. Fortunately myself and the dealership came to understanding but it permanently robbed me of any sort of confidence in either the competence or honesty of these main dealers.

As I said previously I would do the same thing you are and up to a point I did when dealing with my own problem. It worked for me and I hope you get a fair result !

Good luck and don't stop pushing.


----------



## xJay1337

asbo said:


> So my solicitor has advised that yes my case does fall under the sales of goods act with the car not of satisfactory quality, you would not expect a 2010 car of that value to have such major repairs needed, the sales of goods act states that if the fault occurs in the first 6 months of purchase it is up to the retailer to PROVE that the faults were not there when the item was sold, if they cannot then it is deemed they were, the fit for purpose part of it is a grey area.


I think they can prove the fault wasn't there. Following their "extensive check" and a noise that YOU ignored (ergo it didn't exist) and bought the car anyway.



> The car went in for whining on the gearbox, and then on the day I got it back the clutch burnt out whilst on the motorway. Now I have had the car back from having both of these done, there is another whining noise coming when accelerating. The workshop manager at the garage I bought the car from stated it was some noise cancellation foam that was probably split and needed replacing. The master tech who came out with me states that this is bull, he says that yep all Audi vehicles (with a turbo) have a slight turbo noise but that mine is excessive and needs to be checked out.


You'd be surprised what the noises could be. My stock turbo on my old TDI was VERY loud (to the point where I thought it was faulty) and so did my local garage however I stuck it out and when I removed it (30k later) it was as good as new...

Not saying that yours "ISNT" faulty but there are many other things that could cause it and you can't take one technicians answer as gospel.



> Would you deem that a £16000 car, that is an approved used vehicle that has gone through a very extensive 146 point check before being allowed to become "authorised" and then after sale needs a £4000 gearbox, a clutch, and a flywheel, and then maybe a turbo charger, and then a front window trim (this is minor but something else that is not right with the car), after only 6 weeks to be of satisfactory quality? I certainly don't!


I would deem it irrelevant the cost of the car. 
My Dad bought a Lexus IS220d about 18 months ago.

Within 3 months of owning he had the following break and subsequently replaced by the Lexus dealer under warranty

Clutch & flywheel
EGR valve
Complete top end of engine (yup really)
DPF

The above engine/DPF faults caused his car to have to be recovered from FRANCE (yup really) interrupting a holiday for him.

More recently he's had a new bonnet due to rust

The first 3 months of his ownership, he didn't actually have the car for over half of that, the rest of the time he was plonked in Enterprise rent a cars. Now you got top of the range Audis and free upgrades, and plenty of warranty work.

Did he go to a solicitor and "get his act on"? No. He was firm but fair and the dealer was helpful and they fixed the car which I believe will continue to happen in your case.

Ultimately the issues with the car are *irrelevant *as it's currently (I presume) driving correctly. The _issue _here is the dent to the sill - NOT to do with the quality of the car and/or the problems it's had. Had that dent not been inflicted, in whatever manner, you would not even speaking to a solicitor right now.

You realise that these "1xx point checks" are just mostly visual and 3/4s of them are nothing to do with the car?

http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/Certified-pre-owned/Pdf/Audi-CPO-pt-inspection-checklist.pdf

If I were you I'd just leave it and get the sill repaired at a bodyshop, around £300.

But ultimately I don't think you will let this drop, whether it gets you the result you want is another matter.

Tread carefully .


----------



## PugIain

xJay1337 said:


> Within 3 months of owning he had the following break and subsequently replaced by the Lexus dealer under warranty
> 
> Clutch & flywheel
> EGR valve
> Complete top end of engine (yup really)
> DPF


No way :doublesho
I had the dmf done on mine under warranty but that's been it in 2.5 years.


----------



## Tricky Red

I've always found that a very frank conversation with the dealer principal in private should do the trick. Keep calm, be honest and fair and these things will help you achieve a result. 

Most agreeable customers are those that are fair. It is very difficult not to become emotional and defensive if customers are being difficult, even if they are correct.


----------



## SteveTDCi

The most amusing thing for me is despite all of this you want to buy another Audi 

Ultimately you need to decide what you want from the situation, is that the car repaired or rejected. If you reject the car they could argue that you have damaged it and that they do not want it back, and if they do it will be at a lower price. Whilst the customer should not be out of pocket they would be within their rights to charge for any use of the car. What were you doing in order to see the damage underneath, i hardly ever look under my cars 

The sales of Goods act while still applying, from what i remember does change slightly when you are dealing with used cars, in that although it should be fit for purpose, you would expect some defects in a 3 year old car compared to a brand new one,


----------



## should_do_more

One thing I'd be interested in is if you damaged it, which I know is not the case, but if Audi say you did, does that not affect your rights? As jay says, if it wasn't for this you wouldn't be asking to return it. Just saying.


----------



## griffin1907

I wish you all the luck. It's a terrible experience and hope you & your solicitor get the result you feel is justified.


----------



## Rowan83

What a nightmare, I hope you get this sorted soon.

I really would not expect that kind of repairs and if there was Audi should do it under warranty.


----------



## Cookies

Any updates? 

Ta

Cooks


----------



## asbo

Cookies said:


> Any updates?
> 
> Ta
> 
> Cooks


Well I handed in the "letter of rejection" on Wednesday, today I got a call from Audi UK first thing to say that they had received an email from the Business Manager that he has sent me a letter of "hold' which basically is a "please wait" and they expect to have made a decision by early this coming week (Tuesday/Wednesday).

Ash


----------



## Daz.

Crumbs, just read the thread! 

Fingers crossed you can just walk away from this one!


----------



## Cookies

asbo said:


> Well I handed in the "letter of rejection" on Wednesday, today I got a call from Audi UK first thing to say that they had received an email from the Business Manager that he has sent me a letter of "hold' which basically is a "please wait" and they expect to have made a decision by early this coming week (Tuesday/Wednesday).
> 
> Ash


A holding response isn't necessarily a bad thing Ash. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you mate and i hope you get the decision you want.

Keep us posted.

Cooks


----------



## asbo

Cookies said:


> A holding response isn't necessarily a bad thing Ash. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you mate and i hope you get the decision you want.
> 
> Keep us posted.
> 
> Cooks


I go the holding response letter today now my letter was dated the 13th and I gave them ten days to respond with the refund, now their letter is dated 16th and says they will respond in ten days! Lets hope they don't think that they are having those 3 additional days  haha

Hopefully Tuesday / Wednesday will be a good day!


----------



## Cookies

Hopefully so. Usually the person responding on behalf of the company has some fact finding to do and, on occasion, several versions of events to 'evaluate.' Given the horrific experiences you've had I'd say there's a fairly substantial amount of information gathering (and story straightening) to be done.
They may also need to establish their own legal position. Would have been far safer and much more cost effective to just have a nice friendly approach with you!
Cooks


----------



## asbo

Update:

I have heard from Audi UK whom have seen the draft of the letter that the dealership are sending me, they are rejecting my rejection, saying that as all faults were different it doesn't matter. They are sticking to the fact even with my evidence (Which I have detailed below). I have now booked an automotive engineer to come out to inspect the car and report on the damage that is there, and my jack to prove it was not myself causing the damage. 

My evidence. So, in my first post I tell you that the RAC had to come out after the clutch failed on the motorway, well I have their documented report that shows no damage on the car inspection, I then have another RAC driver tow my car to the garage the next morning, again no damage on the inspection report!!!!!

I am totally devastated to the whole fiasco. Audi UK have basically said it's a used car and they can't do anything about it as they didn't earn any money off of it! If it was a new car then they could/would!!!!


----------



## cleancar

hope you get it sorted but i feel you are on to a long losing battle


----------



## Kerr

asbo said:


> Update:
> 
> I have heard from Audi UK whom have seen the draft of the letter that the dealership are sending me, they are rejecting my rejection, saying that as all faults were different it doesn't matter. They are sticking to the fact even with my evidence (Which I have detailed below). I have now booked an automotive engineer to come out to inspect the car and report on the damage that is there, and my jack to prove it was not myself causing the damage.
> 
> My evidence. So, in my first post I tell you that the RAC had to come out after the clutch failed on the motorway, well I have their documented report that shows no damage on the car inspection, I then have another RAC driver tow my car to the garage the next morning, again no damage on the inspection report!!!!!
> 
> I am totally devastated to the whole fiasco. Audi UK have basically said it's a used car and they can't do anything about it as they didn't earn any money off of it! If it was a new car then they could/would!!!!


Your point of contact is the place you bought it from legally.

I had the same with a car I bought before. It was a 3 month old Citroën C5 2009 and the dealers was useless.

I went to Citroën directly and they couldn't have been less interested.

Given the dealers were useless, the car was a lemon and the support i was given by the manufacturer was zero, I will never use any of them again.

There isn't any point of falling out with them and then returning again as a customer.

The damage is nothing to do with Audi, but the rest is.

Have you asked for a history of warranty claims on your car?

It might be helpful to see if the issues are manufacturer issues or poor dealer repairs.


----------



## possul

Does the report say underside damage?
The check bodywork not chassis as far as I/AA friend knows
Don't you have a plastic skirt covering the damage?


----------



## uruk hai

Sorry to hear of their response but not entirely surprised if I'm honest, it sounds simplistic but you can either fight as long as there is a reasonable chance of success or call it a day ?

Have you thought anymore about getting someone like Auto Express involved, there is no doubt that very bad publicity on a very wide scale does seem to move organisations where other methods may fail to get results.

IMO this sort of incident undermines in a very serious way the credibility that main dealers like to think they have when it comes to used car sales. The high prices charged for these "Dealer approved" cars should be justified by a combination of very good well presented cars and the highest possible standards of customer service and workmanship. It seems to me that they helped up to a point but as soon the going got tough and you claimed the car was damaged whilst in their car they pulled their daps on and ran away.


----------



## asbo

uruk hai said:


> Sorry to hear of their response but not entirely surprised if I'm honest, it sounds simplistic but you can either fight as long as there is a reasonable chance of success or call it a day ?
> 
> Have you thought anymore about getting someone like Auto Express involved, there is no doubt that very bad publicity on a very wide scale does seem to move organisations where other methods may fail to get results.
> 
> IMO this sort of incident undermines in a very serious way the credibility that main dealers like to think they have when it comes to used car sales. The high prices charged for these "Dealer approved" cars should be justified by a combination of very good well presented cars and the highest possible standards of customer service and workmanship. It seems to me that they helped up to a point but as soon the going got tough and you claimed the car was damaged whilst in their car they pulled their daps on and ran away.


Any ideas on how to get in contact with someone that will listen at auto express? I definitely think you hit the nail on the head!


----------



## S63

uruk hai said:


> Sorry to hear of their response but not entirely surprised if I'm honest, it sounds simplistic but you can either fight as long as there is a reasonable chance of success or call it a day ?
> 
> Have you thought anymore about getting someone like Auto Express involved, there is no doubt that very bad publicity on a very wide scale does seem to move organisations where other methods may fail to get results.
> 
> IMO this sort of incident undermines in a very serious way the credibility that main dealers like to think they have when it comes to used car sales. The high prices charged for these "Dealer approved" cars should be justified by a combination of very good well presented cars and the highest possible standards of customer service and workmanship. It seems to me that they helped up to a point but as soon the going got tough and you claimed the car was damaged whilst in their car they pulled their daps on and ran away.


Sorry but imo that just ain't going to happen, please prove me wrong and show me articles in AutoExpress of a similar nature. Now a tv show like Watchdog might be interested as their stock in trade is outing the big names but they'll only do that if Asbos case is cast iron.


----------



## xJay1337

asbo said:


> Update:
> 
> I have heard from Audi UK whom have seen the draft of the letter that the dealership are sending me, they are rejecting my rejection, saying that as all faults were different it doesn't matter. They are sticking to the fact even with my evidence (Which I have detailed below). I have now booked an automotive engineer to come out to inspect the car and report on the damage that is there, and my jack to prove it was not myself causing the damage.
> 
> My evidence. So, in my first post I tell you that the RAC had to come out after the clutch failed on the motorway, well I have their documented report that shows no damage on the car inspection, I then have another RAC driver tow my car to the garage the next morning, again no damage on the inspection report!!!!!
> 
> I am totally devastated to the whole fiasco. Audi UK have basically said it's a used car and they can't do anything about it as they didn't earn any money off of it! If it was a new car then they could/would!!!!


That is not evidence enough to say it was not there.
And having had my share of recoveries I know that AA & RAC do not check sills for damage. 90% of the time they just throw the sheet in your face and ask you to sign.

I just think you should step back and leave it. 
I don't think you have a case (and I'm on your 'side')


----------



## SteveTDCi

What exactly are you trying to achieve ? Yes the car has had some faults but all have been fixed and all of them are different faults, whether they are related would need to be proved. 

The damage to the underside could have happened with the previous owner, on the RAC recovery ... its your word against there's and you won't win that war. The faults, from what i remember they need to be the same fault fixed on 3 different occasions, you haven't been left out of pocket as you have had a loan car better than your current car.

Whilst its frustrating and very annoying is all of the hasall and costs worth it ? why not just get the car fixed and enjoy it ? Or don't you want it anymore, and assuming you don't i assume you would leave the Audi brand ?For all i know the underside of my mini is dented, would i take it up with the supplying dealer ? maybe but after a week i very much doubt i'd win.


----------



## uruk hai

asbo said:


> Any ideas on how to get in contact with someone that will listen at auto express? I definitely think you hit the nail on the head!


You could try emailing or giving them a ring ?



S63 said:


> Sorry but imo that just ain't going to happen, please prove me wrong and show me articles in AutoExpress of a similar nature. Now a tv show like Watchdog might be interested as their stock in trade is outing the big names but they'll only do that if Asbos case is cast iron.


I can't prove you wrong mate, I'm just trying to consider a possible alternative route of investigation. If you don't ask you won't get and at this point I would consider it worth a try.


----------



## danski

Had a similar situation with a used Ford Escort GTi many years ago...I`ve never owned and never will own another Ford....ever!
Vote with your feet if you arent happy, customer always wins in the long run.
I know they are part of the same group, but personally, I prefer VW`s these days to Audi`s anyway....it helps that I have a very good independant VW specialist though.


----------



## Sirmally2

Personally i fully 100% agree with you... they have your money, now go and take a run and jump.

Yes, they have fixed the faults on your car FOC but in all honesty i would not expect a 3yr old car to have all of these faults. Certainly not yet and certainly not something that is "Audi Approved"

Unfortunatly i think Audi are now going down the same route Mercedes went down some years back and not been bothered about customer care and its not the first time im afraid i've heard of audi negligance, and for them to be considered a "Premium Brand" i think is personally starting to slip... Id much prefer to go to Mercedes 

My local Audi dealer in the experience i've had with them want one thing off you... Money. Once they have that you can go and take a run and jump. The end of the day you know, we all know and Audi know that they have caused that damage. This isn't something like walking past a car and catching it with a bag and you didn't notice.

I hope you and the solicitor win mate, i really do. Because id love to see this be splattered all over the headlines. Yes - it would probably put a few noses out of place but from my view and the way i've been treat by my local audi stealership, id not trust them with a babycarriage let alone my car.


----------



## SteveTDCi

A 3 year old car with no faults ... maybe, but what if it has 150k on the clock or been used as a pool car, ours go through clutches so quickly because of the drivers being different, what if its been towing a caravan or somebody is just a bad driver.

The damage underneath, how can you prove it was the dealer, do you check the underside of the car every time it goes to the dealer ? it might have already been there and the dealer might be innocent, I'm just sitting on the fence at the minute, everyone is different, and unless you can prove it was the dealer then i wouldn't waste my time, its going to cause nothing but stress and money, yes its annoying, i'd be blooming weed off, i had an issue with a Ford dealer once over paintwork, I couldn't prove they had done it, it had a rant told them they were crap and moved on.

Just decide what you want around the mechanical issues, technically they have done nothing wrong. They have the right to repair or replace or refund at there option, each fault has been different, you need to prove they are related, they will say they are not. If you want to keep the car, press for free services etc, if you don't want it then go for rejection, but be warned they may charge you for the use that you have had of the car.

Look at the small print to the Audi used car scheme too, don't think i'm siding with the dealer, but sometimes its just not worth the stress.


----------



## alan hanson

danski said:


> Had a similar situation with a used Ford Escort GTi many years ago...I`ve never owned and never will own another Ford....ever!
> Vote with your feet if you arent happy, customer always wins in the long run.
> .


ford seem to be doing ok without your custom, sorry to say. if everyone did that there wouldnt be any manufacturers left! I think its been handled badly but should be left now


----------



## asbo

So today I missed a call from one of the directors of the Franchise I bought the car off after a tweet, and that being re-tweeted by my friend whom has 90K followers, and I sent the franchise head office an email wishing to discuss the issues with them. I will see what she says 

Ash


----------



## xJay1337

You be careful about any negative comments. You can be legally liable for slander if you push too far.
Then you'd have to speak to your solicitor.


----------



## alan hanson

yeh agree tread carefully


----------



## asbo

None of what has been written it could be construed as slander. I just put that i was heartbroken and disappointed  but thanks anyway.

As a side note, I have just had the car inspected by an automotive engineer, whom also works with insurance companies in regards to damage assessments. He states that car has definitely not fallen off of a jack, but also its not a two post damage, someone at some point has put the jack in the wrong place, and jacked up the sill rather than on the lip. He said that with the rust that is present currently it has definitely been done before May (when I purchased the car at the end of May) and that the damage has been there around 6 months with the weather that we have had and such. 

Looks like things could be going in a good direction. I just await that report that he will send me over. 

Ashley


----------



## PugIain

Previous owner then?


----------



## asbo

PugIain said:


> Previous owner then?


Must be, but I previously asked Audi UK if any body work damage is allowed on their Approved Used Cars, their answer was no.

It should never have been approved used by the sounds of it.


----------



## bidderman1969

Sounds positive :thumb:


----------



## Kerr

asbo said:


> None of what has been written it could be construed as slander. I just put that i was heartbroken and disappointed  but thanks anyway.
> 
> As a side note, I have just had the car inspected by an automotive engineer, whom also works with insurance companies in regards to damage assessments. He states that car has definitely not fallen off of a jack, but also its not a two post damage, someone at some point has put the jack in the wrong place, and jacked up the sill rather than on the lip. He said that with the rust that is present currently it has definitely been done before May (when I purchased the car at the end of May) and that the damage has been there around 6 months with the weather that we have had and such.
> 
> Looks like things could be going in a good direction. I just await that report that he will send me over.
> 
> Ashley


I'm not sure it is a positive thing.

It does make the garage look bad they've sold you a car with damage, but used cars often come with damage. It's your job to inspect and find it.


----------



## asbo

Kerr said:


> I'm not sure it is a positive thing.
> 
> It does make the garage look bad they've sold you a car with damage, but used cars often come with damage. It's your job to inspect and find it.


I'm not a mechanic, I wouldn't be expected or expect to have to check the underneath of the car, however, they have jacked the car up multiple times and would have had to jack the car up to do the 146 check that means the car is approved. There is not a chance that they did not notice the damage when they were inspecting the car, therefore I believe this is negligence on their part. Audi themselves state no damage should be on the car if it is to be approved.


----------



## Kerr

asbo said:


> I'm not a mechanic, I wouldn't be expected or expect to have to check the underneath of the car, however, they have jacked the car up multiple times and would have had to jack the car up to do the 146 check that means the car is approved. There is not a chance that they did not notice the damage when they were inspecting the car, therefore I believe this is negligence on their part. Audi themselves state no damage should be on the car if it is to be approved.


I know where you are coming from, but if the damage doesn't affect the function on the car, it's not considered a reasonable fault for rejection.


----------



## Kerr

I've seen loads of approved used cars with damage/poor repairs. 

You're not alone by a long shot.


----------



## asbo

Kerr said:


> I know where you are coming from but if the damage doesn't affect the function on the car, it's not considered a reasonable fault for rejection.


But it was not fit for purpose. They state their cars do not come with any damage on them and this has its clearly a breach of the implied contract of sale surely?


----------



## TigerUK

OP is going round every car forum and posting this. LOL


----------



## Kerr

asbo said:


> But it was not fit for purpose. They state their cars do not come with any damage on them and this has its clearly a breach of the implied contract of sale surely?


Does the car still drive with the damage?

Does ot affect the safety of the car?

I've had a quick scan over the approved Audi website on my phone and it seems a bit abbreviated.

I can see about the 145 point check and replacing worn parts with genuine Audi parts, but I don't see anything about damage or damage repaired cars.

Have you got a link to their promise?

The only guarantee I see is if within the first 30 days/1000 miles a major fault occurs that they can't repair, then they'll replace the vehicle.

I can't see anything about damaged vehicles or refunds.


----------



## xJay1337

TigerUK said:


> OP is going round every car forum and posting this. LOL


Ha :lol::lol::lol:



asbo said:


> But it was not fit for purpose. They state their cars do not come with any damage on them and this has its clearly a breach of the implied contract of sale surely?


It was completely fit for purpose. 
The car works.
Scuffs dings and scratches are part of buying a used car. It's up to you to inspect ultimately.

I think if anything you owe Audi an APOLOGY for accusing them of damaging your car when it's been proven that they haven't.

Honestly just drop it now as it's getting a bit pathetic.
You have a working car and what seemed to be a perfectly reasonable dealership in terms of replacing things, giving nicer courtesy cars etc.


----------



## bidderman1969

TigerUK said:


> OP is going round every car forum and posting this. LOL


Good on him


----------



## Hasan1

asbo said:


> None of what has been written it could be construed as slander. I just put that i was heartbroken and disappointed  but thanks anyway.
> 
> As a side note, I have just had the car inspected by an automotive engineer, whom also works with insurance companies in regards to damage assessments. He states that car has definitely not fallen off of a jack, but also its not a two post damage, someone at some point has put the jack in the wrong place, and jacked up the sill rather than on the lip. He said that with the rust that is present currently it has definitely been done before May (when I purchased the car at the end of May) and that the damage has been there around 6 months with the weather that we have had and such.
> 
> Looks like things could be going in a good direction. I just await that report that he will send me over.
> 
> Ashley


I was going to post on this before as I did see rust on the wing and with the weather we have had dont think it would of rusted like that so fast. But in your first post you said that the damage was defiantly not the when you first took the wheels off to work on them. From what I understand you told them this and that it must of happened when it went in for warranty work but now your going to go back and tell them it was like that when you brought it from Audi?

I hope you get it sorted but be careful and keep the same story


----------



## bidderman1969

xJay1337 said:


> Ha :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> It was completely fit for purpose.
> The car works.
> Scuffs dings and scratches are part of buying a used car. It's up to you to inspect ultimately.
> 
> I think if anything you owe Audi an APOLOGY for accusing them of damaging your car when it's been proven that they haven't.
> 
> Honestly just drop it now as it's getting a bit pathetic.
> You have a working car and what seemed to be a perfectly reasonable dealership in terms of replacing things, giving nicer courtesy cars etc.


All due respect, It's upto him not you to wether he "drops this", you could say the same about TV's, if its damaged but works fine would you be happy?


----------



## bidderman1969

Might also look good to apologise to the garage as said, especially as you're taking things seriously enough to have an experts report that they shouldn't be able to wriggle out of, how many people do actually look all around underneath a 3/4 year old cars for damage? Only on older cars I would consider doing that


----------



## SteveTDCi

xJay1337 said:


> Ha :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> It was completely fit for purpose.
> The car works.
> Scuffs dings and scratches are part of buying a used car. It's up to you to inspect ultimately.
> 
> I think if anything you owe Audi an APOLOGY for accusing them of damaging your car when it's been proven that they haven't.
> 
> Honestly just drop it now as it's getting a bit pathetic.
> You have a working car and what seemed to be a perfectly reasonable dealership in terms of replacing things, giving nicer courtesy cars etc.


i agree with this, as i've posted before i'm not sure what it is you want from all of this, yes you have been unlucky with the faults but from what i can understand they have been fixed. You then tried to blame the garage for damaging the car, something that has been there for months. Whether this should have been picked up by the Approved check i don't know, however i would have thought the underside would not be covered.

As for fit for purpose, as Kerr mentions, it drives and in no way does the dent affect the cars performance so this is not a good enough reason for rejection. Its always a case of buyer beware and while you do have a little more sway with a main dealer, ultimately when things go wrong your on your own. The dealer itself is under no obligation to inform you of any damage, all they need to do is make sure the car is HPI clear and meets a certain level that the brand see's fit.


----------



## Kerr

I feel sorry for Asbo and there is no need for the wording in a few of the posts above. 

There is nothing more frustrating than spending your hard earned money and not gettting what you expected. 

I've seen countless threads with people buying approved used thinking it is some guarantee that they are buying a better car with more protection. 

You're not. Dealers often source their cars from the same places as everyone else and when push comes to shove on issues, they will nearly always do the bare minimum legal requirement. 

In the case of a dent on the car, that will be zero. 

Even on new cars they are legally allowed to carry out significant repairs and still sell the car as new. 

It can leave customers in a horrible place when they are on the receiving end. 

The approved used cars schemes as far as I'm concerned are a rip off. You pay over the odds and get nothing in return, especially buying a car under manufacturers warranty.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Have you got a copy of the 145 point inspection, i've just found one online although its the US version I think .

http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/Certified-pre-owned/Pdf/Audi-CPO-pt-inspection-checklist.pdf

Section 6 underside, any damage that was on the vehicle prior to your purchase should have been picked up, it should then state if it was to an Audi standard. If its rusting then i would suggest that the underside should have been repaired/protected.

Lets see if we can find a UK check sheet.

Either way you should be able to see it ..

All Audi vehicles benefit from superior build-quality and finish. We check the areas you can see as well as the ones you can't.
Before it makes the grade as an Approved Used Audi, every pre-owned Audi model must pass 145 thorough inspections. An Audi technician makes separate mechanical, interior and exterior checks, conducts a full road-test and prepares *a detailed written report which is available for your assessment.*

and ...

Should the multi-point check highlight any irregularities, we will undertake rectification work, ensuring the car meets our meticulous standards before it reaches the forecourt. Most importantly, we only use Audi Original parts.

If this has been omitted then you might be able to push for something and that it didn't meet the terms and conditions of there own program. But you would also need your assessors report to back up the age of the damage.


----------



## bidderman1969

Kerr said:


> I feel sorry for Asbo and there is no need for the wording in a few of the posts above.
> 
> There is nothing more frustrating than spending your hard earned money and not gettting what you expected.
> 
> I've seen countless threads with people buying approved used thinking it is some guarantee that they are buying a better car with more protection.
> 
> You're not. Dealers often source their cars from the same places as everyone else and when push comes to shove on issues, they will nearly always do the bare minimum legal requirement.
> 
> In the case of a dent on the car, that will be zero.
> 
> Even on new cars they are legally allowed to carry out significant repairs and still sell the car as new.
> 
> It can leave customers in a horrible place when they are on the receiving end.
> 
> The approved used cars schemes as far as I'm concerned are a rip off. You pay over the odds and get nothing in return, especially buying a car under manufacturers warranty.


Agree with you, but I think this is what the OP is trying to do, get Audi to live upto the high expectations of the brand name and paying the price assossociated with it, but yes, I agree with what you have said, certainly puts me right off these so called "dealer APPROVED"


----------



## PugIain

I'm guessing it wasn't a cheap car, more expensive than my new 407 I'd wager. That was only £6k, but I'd be well pissed to find damage on it at that price point. Given it was a Peugeot "Approved used car" .


----------



## S63

Some DW members can be a fickle bunch. In the beginning the dealership was dammed and criticised by a few, roll on a few pages and the OP is being laughed at and being advised to apologise to the dealership, something I never thought I'd read on here.

I applaud anyone who takes on a major company and however small the odds of success continues to fight in the hope of winning the case.

The OP was I guess to sound out advice from those possibly with firsthand experience of such an issue and quite naturally asked the same over different forums.

I haven't and won't read every page but from my quick glance it appears Ash is unlikely to get the result he seeks. Throughout he has been concise, detailed and unlike some remained polite when under obvious stress and frustration. If against all the odds he gets his rewards for this endeavour I shall be tickled pink for him.

Working within the industry I get to hear tales and a major Audi dealership in my area is going through big changes, i.e. cutbacks, good long term staff are leaving in droves and being replaced with far less skilled people. I applied for a job there myself and was quite shocked at the "cowboy" nature of the application process.

This maybe a one-off but if other Audi franchises are facing similar issues and addressing them in a similar manner I certainly wouldn't fancy being an Audi owner.

PS whatever the outcome, please don't apologise to the dealership, they hardly know the meaning of the gesture.


----------



## xJay1337

I said the OP should apologise to the dealer for the accusation of causing the damage

"AUDI DAMAGED MY CAR"

His words.

And it turns out that they haven't. That is all. nothing more and nothing less.


----------



## PugIain

xJay1337 said:


> I said the OP should apologise to the dealer for the accusation of causing the damage
> 
> "AUDI DAMAGED MY CAR"
> 
> His words.
> 
> And it turns out that they haven't. That is all. nothing more and nothing less.


Except the damage should have been picked up on pre sale inspection. It was from a franchised main dealer, not an independant.
So even if they haven't damaged it, they obviously haven't thoroughly checked it. If Audi approve damaged cars for sale, I wouldn't be buying an Audi.


----------



## alan hanson

its as long as he can prove it didnt get damaged since he bought it is where Audi will try and get out of it, but i dont blame him for chasing and chasing it, its his monies both sides have a part in the deal Audi have there sale pitch of the inspection which they obviously didnt stick to and wont honour


----------



## Maniac

I can vouch for AUC shoddiness, albeit BMW, as my car came with 2 cracked rear wheels. Clearly hadn't been inspected properly. It took some fighting but I got new wheels and compo from BMW.


----------



## S63

xJay1337 said:


> I said the OP should apologise to the dealer for the accusation of causing the damage
> 
> "AUDI DAMAGED MY CAR"
> 
> His words.
> 
> And it turns out that they haven't. That is all. nothing more and nothing less.


I know what was said, no repeat necessary.:thumb:

I still say don't apologise, dealers have us over time and time again and when on a rare occasion they are the ones offering an apology,it's hollow and meaningless.


----------



## should_do_more

I don't think he's going to get anywhere on this. Picture it from the dealer side who ultimately Audi have to rely on.....

Bloke buys car. Complains a bit. Faults agreed to be fixed. Guy comes back complaining about a dent that he's found. Bloke then says he took the wheels off himself to clean inside them....why...then after we get it back in he says he noticed a dent under the car. Ask engineer, he swears blind he didn't do it, he's a reliable bloke normally, why doubt him. Read letter complaining about dent. See twitter. Start getting annoyed. Then bloke comes back saying the dent was there ages ago.....the same dent he didn't have when he took the wheels off.....why would you clean inside wheels....? Anyway, now he's saying the dent was there ages ago, before he bought it, check paperwork. No mention of a dent when it came in as stock or we would have fixed it. Hmmm. Confused. So the dent was there when we got it in but it wasn't on the papers so wasn't there.....wasn't there when he cleaned his wheels, then appears after we looked at it. So there, not there, there. Pfff stuff it.

I can see how it is annoying, I really can, and I still haven't looked under my VW, but i hope you get somewhere with this but I'm betting you don't. Sorry. I don't agree with it and its bad but if it was there when you bought the car you should have spotted it even if they didn't. Mentioning you took the wheels off really sealed it for you.


----------



## bidderman1969

But then again, maybe he wouldn't have seen it if he hasn't have taken the wheels off? Nothing to say someone isn't allowed to take there own wheels off, maybe he was checking the alloys for their overall condition, looking for cracks etc……

Can see what youre saying, Just looking at the other side of the coin, so to speak….


----------



## asbo

TigerUK said:


> OP is going round every car forum and posting this. LOL


I have posted in this and an Audi forum, I feel that this is not every car forum that I am going around, I am getting opinions from people like this forum with a vast deal of expertise in body work/paint. To others (on the Audi forum say) that have vast experience with Audi vehicles.



xJay1337 said:


> Ha :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> It was completely fit for purpose.
> The car works.
> Scuffs dings and scratches are part of buying a used car. It's up to you to inspect ultimately.
> 
> I think if anything you owe Audi an APOLOGY for accusing them of damaging your car when it's been proven that they haven't.
> 
> Honestly just drop it now as it's getting a bit pathetic.
> You have a working car and what seemed to be a perfectly reasonable dealership in terms of replacing things, giving nicer courtesy cars etc.


I value your opinion I really do, I would appreciate that you not use the word "pathetic". Take it like this, if you were in my situation, would you honestly just leave it and accept it? If you ACTUALLY would then we are obviously different (as everyone is I guess) The dealership only provided the one courtesy car, the rest were from Audi UK Warranty scheme. Whilst yes maybe I was a bit quick to say that THEY had caused the damage, at the end of the day the damage should not, in my opinion (and also in Audi's opinion) have been on the car when it was sold as used approved. I have said this to the director tonight on the telephone.



Hasan1 said:


> I was going to post on this before as I did see rust on the wing and with the weather we have had dont think it would of rusted like that so fast. But in your first post you said that the damage was defiantly not the when you first took the wheels off to work on them. From what I understand you told them this and that it must of happened when it went in for warranty work but now your going to go back and tell them it was like that when you brought it from Audi?
> 
> I hope you get it sorted but be careful and keep the same story


I did not notice the damage when I jacked the car up, however maybe I have become so used to jacking cars up (although I don't actually do it much at all) that I didn't notice it who knows, stories change as the situation develops and therefore my opinion and what I say will change obviously.



Kerr said:


> I feel sorry for Asbo and there is no need for the wording in a few of the posts above.
> 
> There is nothing more frustrating than spending your hard earned money and not gettting what you expected.
> 
> I've seen countless threads with people buying approved used thinking it is some guarantee that they are buying a better car with more protection.
> 
> You're not. Dealers often source their cars from the same places as everyone else and when push comes to shove on issues, they will nearly always do the bare minimum legal requirement.
> 
> In the case of a dent on the car, that will be zero.
> 
> Even on new cars they are legally allowed to carry out significant repairs and still sell the car as new.
> 
> It can leave customers in a horrible place when they are on the receiving end.
> 
> The approved used cars schemes as far as I'm concerned are a rip off. You pay over the odds and get nothing in return, especially buying a car under manufacturers warranty.


Thanks for your comments I do appreciate them, (as I do everyones too)



SteveTDCi said:


> Have you got a copy of the 145 point inspection, i've just found one online although its the US version I think .
> 
> http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/Certified-pre-owned/Pdf/Audi-CPO-pt-inspection-checklist.pdf
> 
> Section 6 underside, any damage that was on the vehicle prior to your purchase should have been picked up, it should then state if it was to an Audi standard. If its rusting then i would suggest that the underside should have been repaired/protected.
> 
> Lets see if we can find a UK check sheet.
> 
> Either way you should be able to see it ..
> 
> All Audi vehicles benefit from superior build-quality and finish. We check the areas you can see as well as the ones you can't.
> Before it makes the grade as an Approved Used Audi, every pre-owned Audi model must pass 145 thorough inspections. An Audi technician makes separate mechanical, interior and exterior checks, conducts a full road-test and prepares *a detailed written report which is available for your assessment.*
> 
> and ...
> 
> Should the multi-point check highlight any irregularities, we will undertake rectification work, ensuring the car meets our meticulous standards before it reaches the forecourt. Most importantly, we only use Audi Original parts.
> 
> If this has been omitted then you might be able to push for something and that it didn't meet the terms and conditions of there own program. But you would also need your assessors report to back up the age of the damage.


The dealership are "investigating" the 145 check as I have copies of checks 1-99 but nothing else that was provided to me at purchase, I did not know it was a 145 point check at that point.



S63 said:


> Some DW members can be a fickle bunch. In the beginning the dealership was dammed and criticised by a few, roll on a few pages and the OP is being laughed at and being advised to apologise to the dealership, something I never thought I'd read on here.
> 
> I applaud anyone who takes on a major company and however small the odds of success continues to fight in the hope of winning the case.
> 
> The OP was I guess to sound out advice from those possibly with firsthand experience of such an issue and quite naturally asked the same over different forums.
> 
> I haven't and won't read every page but from my quick glance it appears Ash is unlikely to get the result he seeks. Throughout he has been concise, detailed and unlike some remained polite when under obvious stress and frustration. If against all the odds he gets his rewards for this endeavour I shall be tickled pink for him.
> 
> Working within the industry I get to hear tales and a major Audi dealership in my area is going through big changes, i.e. cutbacks, good long term staff are leaving in droves and being replaced with far less skilled people. I applied for a job there myself and was quite shocked at the "cowboy" nature of the application process.
> 
> This maybe a one-off but if other Audi franchises are facing similar issues and addressing them in a similar manner I certainly wouldn't fancy being an Audi owner.
> 
> PS whatever the outcome, please don't apologise to the dealership, they hardly know the meaning of the gesture.


I have noticed the sudden change in peoples comments on the whole post. However it's a forum, and therefore open to anyones opinion for them to publicise. I appreciate what everyone is saying. But as said ultimately I have to deem myself what I think is appropriate to the situation. I have had other people explain the situation with cost cutting and less skilled being put into a skilled position from a mechanic friend.



alan hanson said:


> its as long as he can prove it didnt get damaged since he bought it is where Audi will try and get out of it, but i dont blame him for chasing and chasing it, its his monies both sides have a part in the deal Audi have there sale pitch of the inspection which they obviously didnt stick to and wont honour


As stated above Alan, I have had an inspection by an automotive engineer/damage assessor who has stated and is writing a report the to the affect that the damage is of an age which is greater than the period I have owned the vehicle and the franchise and Audi UK have both asked (and will be receiving) a copy of this report as soon as it arrives to myself.

Update:
So the "Director of Customer Service" has spoken to me today (she actually telephoned me at 8PM!) and stated she will now start to get involved with the investigations and do some investigations of her own after hearing from the story, obviously she has not said what they will do in regards to it but I would not expect her to until all investigations are completed. I will be sending her a copy of the reports as soon as it arrives to myself from the assessor.

Again thanks for everyones opinions I do take all into account and appreciate them all.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Well you can go the trading standards route then, they openly advertise on the Audi website about this check and that ou can see it. So providing they sold it to you under those conditions and have not et there part f the agreement then I don't see where they can go from here.


----------



## Sirmally2

I'll still stand by my comment that you're doing the right thing.

I'd not apologise to them either. Clearly as mentioned they have not done their "Approved Inspection" thoroughly and this damage should have been picked up on. 

After the problems you and several others i know have had with Audi's lack of Aftersales service and care, i will NEVER buy an Audi until they seriously have a rethink on their customer care.

I expect a great deal more from what i would consider a "Premium Brand" like Audi.

Keep chipping away at them mate. I will take my hat off to you and credit to what you are doing to make your point known :thumb:


----------



## xJay1337

ok Asbo that's a fair point.
I would do what you have done up until now, probably would not have said anything about me jacking a car up or anything.. but at this point I would have left it.
I've been in the same situation with my corrosion guarantee on my wings on both my Mk5s as they rust.

I'm all for getting your worth from the dealer but yeah. It's a bit of a rock and a hard place for every single party involved. Officially the damage was not there when it was inspected and if you didn't notice it either then legally I think the ruling would be that it wasn't there when purchased. 

I think all dealers are the same, Sirmally, you buy a Skoda/Hydundai/Kia the same thing would happen.
You pay more for the cars not the service as such. If it's a big deal buy privately?


----------



## bidderman1969

Buying private would probably have had no comeback at all


----------



## Rob_Quads

Kerr said:


> Does the car still drive with the damage?
> 
> Does ot affect the safety of the car?


Its not just the short term you need to think about.

While its fine at the moment if its starting to rust now within a few years its the sort of thing that could then result in much more substantial work being needed to pass MOTs etc. The underside of a car is the last place you want early rust as it gets exposed to all the different weathers


----------



## ianrobbo1

Been reading since day 1, now you seem to be getting some managerial interest, just keep your head as you've been doing all along, and good luck on a favourable outcome, if nothing else, it shows that "someone" somewhere, actually does care about after sales service, all be it a bit of a bugger to find them!! :thumb:


----------



## DJ X-Ray

should_do_more summed it up really, i doubt you'll get any joy out of this tbh


----------



## Kerr

Rob_Quads said:


> Its not just the short term you need to think about.
> 
> While its fine at the moment if its starting to rust now within a few years its the sort of thing that could then result in much more substantial work being needed to pass MOTs etc. The underside of a car is the last place you want early rust as it gets exposed to all the different weathers


I understand that.

I was giving the stance of what is deemed fit for purpose. If it works, legally it is fit even though there is something of an issue.

Asbo will be stuck because the rust is due to the damage and won't be covered by a corrosion guarantee at a later date.

You'd be surprised what you have to accept as for purpose.

As i said earlier in this thread, i bought a 3 month old Citroen C5 2.0HDi in 2009 with just 2300 miles on the clock.

Within days the car was going back and forward to the garage to carry out a whole series of repairs one after the other.

It spent 6 weeks of the first 3 months in and out of the garage and the same same faults kept occurring. At that stage I wanted to reject, but was told I had no case.

The handbrake failed and I was left without a hardbrake for 10 weeks as they couldn't get the part. Still not justifiable.

I then used a different dealer and more and more things were going wrong all the time.

In total I had the car for about 18 months and I'm sure it was something like 18 weeks the car had spent in the garage for repairs. That's not counting the 10 weeks without a handbrake and driving around with other faults.

I had trading standards helping me out, but even they said that the garage was attempting to rectify the issues and others didn't affect the car operating.

My point was that the car had a whole series of problems, some new and many reoccurring but that still wasn't enough.

I wasn't always given good loan cars. On an occasion I was given a lower spec C5, but more often than not I was given a C1 and also had to pay to insure the thing too.

Between taking time off work to have the car fixed and also having to pay to insure cars, the episode cost me quite a fair bit of cash ignoring the inconvenience and embarrassment of having such a bad car.

Citizens advice gave me a lot of help and I think it was just the sheer perseverance of both of us, the dealer and company finally gave in and offered me a "goodwill gesture" of offering forecourt value of my car, but only on the condition I bought another car from their network.

Citizens advice said that this was about as good a deal as I could have hoped for.

Even with an absolute lemon of a car that was costing me so much money and inconvenience, never once did I have the right to a proper rejection and a refund.

At even 3 months old it is still termed a used car and you have to accept a lot of things that seem really unfair.


----------



## Squadrone Rosso

Surely the 145 point check covers underbody damage?


----------



## Squadrone Rosso

As well as what you can't see.......


----------



## 182_Blue

Squadrone Rosso said:


> Surely the 145 point check covers underbody damage?


Should have been checked looking at the 145 point check

http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/Certified-pre-owned/Pdf/Audi-CPO-pt-inspection-checklist.pdf


----------



## Squadrone Rosso

Shaun said:


> Should have been checked looking at the 145 point check
> 
> http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/Certified-pre-owned/Pdf/Audi-CPO-pt-inspection-checklist.pdf


Thanks for that. That's just the sort of help this chap needs, not a kicking he's getting:thumb:


----------



## 182_Blue

Squadrone Rosso said:


> Thanks for that. That's just the sort of help this chap needs, not a kicking he's getting:thumb:


Yes whilst his story has been a bit up and down at the end of the day not many people would be happy at having that sort of damage under their car after spending 16k on it.


----------



## PugIain

Shaun said:


> Yes whilst his story has been a bit up and down at the end of the day not many people would be happy at having that sort of damage under their car after spending 16k on it.


Certainly not from a franchised dealer of a "Premium" car marque.
Someone was slacking on the day that went through the shop. 
There does seem to have been an increase just of late of people posting up issues with a certain manufacturing group. Be it mechanical or dealer/aftersales issues.


----------



## ianrobbo1

Kerr said:


> As i said earlier in this thread, i bought a 3 month old Citroen C5 2.0HDi in 2009 with just 2300 miles on the clock.
> 
> Within days the car was going back and forward to the garage to carry out a whole series of repairs one after the other.
> 
> My point was that the car had a whole series of problems, some new and many reoccurring but that still wasn't enough.


You bought a ****reon please tell us, what else did you expect?? :lol:

Sorry, just cant understand why anyone would do a thing like that, and then criticise someone that bought what is "supposed" to be a quality well made car that has damage done to it by a third party!!


----------



## Mr A4

Squadrone Rosso said:


> Thanks for that. That's just the sort of help this chap needs, not a kicking he's getting:thumb:


Totally agree!:thumb: It would be interesting to see the completed inspection check list for the OP's car. I too bought a 3yr old 'Approved' Audi A4 from a main Audi dealer with the expectation I was buying a quality brand. Within a few weeks I had clutch problems, but in my case the dealer was brilliant. They came and picked the car up, a round trip of 70 miles, checked it then did the work under warranty.


----------



## Kerr

ianrobbo1 said:


> You bought a ****reon please tell us, what else did you expect?? :lol:
> 
> Sorry, just cant understand why anyone would do a thing like that, and then criticise someone that bought what is "supposed" to be a quality well made car that has damage done to it by a third party!!


I needed a bigger saloon for doing a fair amount of miles.

It is one of the better looking saloons and is one the better motorway cruisers.

I knew a few people that were having positive experiences with their C5s and it did influence me. Citroën also claimed to have lifted their game.

I don't believe I have criticised Asbo anywhere???????

I am completely on his side. I understand his frustration with the issues he is facing as I've been there.

I'm just joining part in the discussion and making fair points based on my personal experience.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Shaun said:


> Should have been checked looking at the 145 point check
> 
> http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/Certified-pre-owned/Pdf/Audi-CPO-pt-inspection-checklist.pdf


I posted that a few pages back along with a bit from the website, it's this the op needs to request a copy of. Then depending on what the report says will determine where the op stands.


----------



## SteveTDCi

ianrobbo1 said:


> You bought a ****reon please tell us, what else did you expect?? :lol:
> 
> Sorry, just cant understand why anyone would do a thing like that, and then criticise someone that bought what is "supposed" to be a quality well made car that has damage done to it by a third party!!


Yes because buying a premium brand guarantees happy times doesn't it


----------



## Mr A4

I see Audi have dropped out of the top ten in the What Car Dealer Survey, now in the bottom third. http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/car-jd-power-dealer-survey/1207988


----------



## Squadrone Rosso

I see Alfa are one from bottom in that survey. In Autoexpress, they we're 16th. 

My point, surveys aren't everything.


----------



## SteveTDCi

All cars have issues, it's how they are dealt with that makes the difference when things go wrong.


----------



## S63

Squadrone Rosso said:


> I see Alfa are one from bottom in that survey. In Autoexpress, they we're 16th.
> 
> My point, surveys aren't everything.


Especially Autoexpress.


----------



## Kerr

S63 said:


> Especially Autoexpress.





Squadrone Rosso said:


> I see Alfa are one from bottom in that survey. In Autoexpress, they we're 16th.
> 
> My point, surveys aren't everything.


Who gets to take part in these surveys anyways? I've never been offered the chance to moan.

Autoexpress is the most unbelievable magazine ever. It's like the Daily Mail of car magazines.

All those front page exclusives of new cars that never materialise. Some brilliant designers they have though.


----------



## Ryan

Have also been following since day 1. I wont get into the debate about whether I think you will achieve anything from this or should give up etc. Just want to say this is my worst nightmare and at the end of the day its your money, so do not give up easily on this (unless it starts to cost you more money, at which point you would obviously need to take a decision as to whether its worth it to your self). 

I really hope you get something out of this mate. I hate reading stories like this. Wish you the best of luck and keep us updated. And like I said, don't give up on it. Keep your chin up bud :thumb:


----------



## andy monty

Kerr said:


> The handbrake failed and I was left without a hardbrake for 10 weeks as they couldn't get the part. Still not justifiable.


park car near showroom biggest window on a downhill slope set handbrake and walk in and wait for car to join you :devil:

cant beleve they said the car was ok its not road worthy safe or legal to use on the highway :wall:


----------



## DW58

These surveys are only as good as the individual contributor's car and his dealer - not worth the paper they're printed on.


----------



## asbo

Update: 

Things are progressing, however I am not going to go into detail at the moment.

I will however keep you updated when I can.

Ash


----------



## andy monty

asbo said:


> Update:
> 
> Things are progressing, however I am not going to go into detail at the moment.
> 
> I will however keep you updated when I can.
> 
> Ash












we understand


----------



## asbo

andy monty said:


> we understand


LMAO that was funny, nope not got to that stage....yet


----------



## asbo

Update...


Good news everyone! I have been offered a replacement car! 

Same age, less miles, HD sat nav, S-Line Exec model. However it is in phantom black rather than the quartz grey that the current car is. 

This is the only thing that is making me think a little at the moment, I mean, I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth but have to think of what I will feel about the car in the future and don't know wether the black will look as good, last as long, show up marks a hell of a lot easier and such. What do you all think?


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Great news!

Just be thankful that the outcome was as it has turned out to be, could have been catastrophic!

It doesn't sound like your sold on the Black, but just think that when it's all polished up & gleaming, it'll look superb! :thumb:


----------



## moss99

Black is great !!


----------



## slimjim

Black is back , go for it :thumb:


----------



## 182_Blue

I am glad it's nearly sorted and to think some people said you would get nothing :thumb:,onto the car, personally I wouldn't own another black car as its too much hard work to keep looking nice so I would be looking for another colour.



asbo said:


> Update...
> 
> Good news everyone! I have been offered a replacement car!
> 
> Same age, less miles, HD sat nav, S-Line Exec model. However it is in phantom black rather than the quartz grey that the current car is.
> 
> This is the only thing that is making me think a little at the moment, I mean, I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth but have to think of what I will feel about the car in the future and don't know wether the black will look as good, last as long, show up marks a hell of a lot easier and such. What do you all think?


----------



## griffin1907

have you tried asking about another colour being available??

Fantastic result though. (even if i might not be the colour you'd prefer !!)


----------



## James Bagguley

Great result, i should just go for it, more excuses to get out there detailing, and finding the perfect lsp! :thumb:


----------



## SteveTDCi

Black looks great but can be a pain to kep clean, but the spec is good so I would go for it and draw a line under it all


----------



## Chris_911

Personally after all the Audi shaped pain you've had I'd just want the cash and to be able to walk away......

But life is too short so why worry about the colour? Have you discussed colour with them? I don't know what the relationship is like (perhaps I can guess) but this may be a conversation you can have, along the lines of 'I really want to accept your offer but.....'.


----------



## S63

Congratulations on receiving this offer after your long hard fight. Colour is important especially to those that care so much about the appearance, having worked with black cars for many years I know the joy and equal frustration they can bring.

The fact they have now made this offer and the fact you've waited this long so far it must be worth waiting for the right colour, that is of course should the right colour come along with all of the other necessary attributes.

If lets say a slightly newer model became availableoil including a low mileage or higher specced version, would you be prepared to offer additional cash?


----------



## steve204me

I'm in the process of selling my black car, and I do not want another one. Too much work for me.

My first thought was that you should bite their hands off, accept the offer, and draw a line under the whole, sorry, episode.

There again, they have, by offering a replacement, accepted liability to some extent, but probably including a large helping of goodwill factor. So, you should be in a position to hold out for a car that you will be happy with.

Whatever you decide, well done for making your case. :thumb:


Steve.


----------



## Geordieexile

I'd accept it subject to a satisfactory independent inspection that you fund yourself. That way you can be sure that it's being checked by someone working for you and not them. Select a dedicated Audi specialist, I'd assume there'll be reviews on there service on PH or the Audi owner forums mate.
Glad to see a positive outcome as reward for your perseverance.


----------



## slimjim

Must admit I just bought a year old car from Arnold Clark , took the car to get independently looked at from another dealer at my expense yesterday. If the car was rubbish I lost a couple of quid if the car was good we did the deal. Ended up the cars all good noticed one thing but garage will fit a new one before we collect it. For me it's money we'll spent.


----------



## asbo

They have said that this is the only car that they have available in their group stock to replace with. I would not be willing to put more cash towards the car.

My concern is the fact that sone chips (I do quite a bit of motorway driving) and swirls will show. I just really don't know. I am obviously concerned that if I say yes to the car I am going to get fed up with it and want to get rid of it in a few months. 

I am going to have to obviously have a very long think and a good inspection of how the paint is now.


----------



## Jem

If you were to decide you didn't want the black then what's the alternative option?


----------



## asbo

Jem said:


> If you were to decide you didn't want the black then what's the alternative option?


I have no idea. That is a conversation I may need to have on Monday.


----------



## Jem

Personally I'd rather have the black, but then it's not my car. I'm guessing they are not keen to just give you your money back.


----------



## uruk hai

Well done mate, very well done. :thumb:

This is a very good demonstration of what you can achieve when you approach it in a reasonable and determined manner. As I said previously I thought the way you went about this was from the word go the right path to take and perhaps it's a useful lesson to some who might adopt a defeatist attitude and give up or walk away.

Good on you mate, you got the result you earned and ultimately deserved


----------



## S63

Jem said:


> Personally I'd rather have the black, but then it's not my car. I'm guessing they are not keen to just give you your money back.


Handing out cash is something a dealer is very loathe to do, they'd much rather trade stock all day long.

I can imagine what will be said behind closed doors if you don't accept the less favourable black, somewhere along the line you'll be faced with a compromise.


----------



## DW58

Get it independently checked out, grab it and run - you don't ever need to go near tat dealership again.


----------



## Paintmaster1982

Great work! I don't think I would have been as strong minded as you. I give up at the first sign of trouble on these matters. It's good to hear the little guy take on the giants and win.

If I was you I would see about holding out for a diff colour. The fact that you are having to think about it has kind of answered your question. It's allot of money on a car you don't want. I'd be cheeky and ask if you can hold out for a diff colour.

Rob


----------



## AKA Pabs

Asbo, can I just say that, I am so pleased that you have got a result. Posts written eloquently and without anger nice work.
I have my first black car and love it. I am striving for perfection with my paintwork, and it has road rash on the bumper and bonnet, however I will learn new detailing tricks. In my opinion black is the detailers colour. It's the most difficult to look after,but the most rewarding. 
Paint is colour is the most subjective thing about a car and if you don't like it find out your alternatives. Good luck.


----------



## Buck

Good result. 

A few options to think about

- Take the car and detail it yourself?
- Take the car and get it professionally detailed ? (Would the dealer go halves?)
- ask for 28 days to see if they can source same spec but your colour choice. 

Don't see the black option as second best. You have fought hard for a good result and got it - Black Audi's do look . I love my black car and just shrug when it's not clean/at its best. 

Must go - off to wash mine :thumb:


----------



## asbo

Thanks everyone. Obviously until the keys are in my hand this is not a definite but the very fat that they have given me a reg, spec, Audi UK have agreed to cover the difference in price. I find this very positive. I have been thinking about it all night and day and am coming to the conclusion that. Yup black Audi looks the **** (looking at some pictures), its a big spec upgrade. and I can always go on a training day to get some more skills with my DA and it gives me a task! Once the bumper and bonnet are to a good enough standard I could always get them clear filmed to protect them. 

Starting to think more positively now about the colour.


----------



## Kerr

I wonder why they have offered just one car? It's not as if an Audi main dealer won't have numerous Audi A4s in stock. 

Why should it matter to them what car you choose? 

As I posted before, I also rejected my last car. 

It was bought from a Citroën main dealer who are part of a huge network. I was allowed to choose any brand of car from any of their UK dealerships. They didn't even force me to buy from the same garage and they certainly didn't force me towards one car. 

Sounds to me that they either have bigger profit in that car allowing them the movement to do an exchange, or are they a little desperate to get that one car gone?


----------



## DJ X-Ray

Fair play getting a result. I'm not really a lover of black motors i'd prefer silver personally, so if i was you i'd give it another go for the colour you want and if there was no joy i'd just take the black and be done with it.Just my opinion.


----------



## Jem

DJ X-Ray said:


> Fair play getting a result. I'm not really a lover of black motors i'd prefer silver personally


Colour is a very personal thing though, black would have been my colour of preference from the start, and silver is the colour I'd least like to have.


----------



## Mr Concours

Get the car professionally inspected with a fine toothed comb,by an automotive engineer.
Have the clear film done to the bonnet and bumper(possibly the pillars too)
Never go back to the same dealer
Mrs Concours has a black car and it does look great when freshly delailed but DOES need way more looking after than any other colour,you WILL need to DA it more than almost any other colour to keep it looking sharp but as long as your prepared for it and under no illusions,go for it!

Well done!


----------



## DJ X-Ray

Jem said:


> Colour is a very personal thing though, black would have been my colour of preference from the start, and silver is the colour I'd least like to have.


Yeah i agree about colour, but if i was being offered a better specced and lower mileage model(after all the agg i've been through) then i'd take the black personally. As i said in my post i'd give it another shot for the colour i wanted, but if it wasn't happening for whatever reason then so be it. It's still a result imo.


----------



## Guest

I would want a colour i want , not one i am forced into.


----------



## Cookies

Asbo - well done!

As regards the colour, go for it. I'm on my 4th black car and my next one will be black too!!

It gives me a good excuse to do a little detailing more often!!

Cooks


----------



## asbo

So...

Audi UK have not heard from the dealership for numerous days despite putting calls into the head of business. "meetings" and such. I feel they could be dragging their heals a little at the moment, and alas now I have no car as I am unable to borrow my mums. I have decided to give them until a week today (Friday 20th) and then I may be forced to take things a little further. Very disappointing.


----------



## Kerr

asbo said:


> So...
> 
> Audi UK have not heard from the dealership for numerous days despite putting calls into the head of business. "meetings" and such. I feel they could be dragging their heals a little at the moment, and alas now I have no car as I am unable to borrow my mums. I have decided to give them until a week today (Friday 20th) and then I may be forced to take things a little further. Very disappointing.


They have your car and haven't even supplied a courtesy car?


----------



## PugIain

No courtesy car?. Selling damaged vehicles?. Not looking good is it really.
Not sure I'd have had your patience. I'd have given them a couple of days of having no car and been in there asking for either a courtesy car and a tank of fuel or a refund.


----------



## Rowan83

Sounds like the dealer from hell. You should be getting a courtesy car at the least!


----------



## bidderman1969

Can't remember if you've named and shamed the dealer yet, should do really


----------



## asbo

Sorry guys there seems to be some confusion. They do not have the car that I paid for, it is still sitting on my drive. But due to the fact that under the Sale of Goods Act, I have declined the quality of the car and rejected it, I am therefore forced to not drive it. Driving it could/would be implying that I was accepting of it. However also due to the fact that they have stated they will replace the car, I don't want to put anymore miles onto it to de-value it.

Some of you may say that I have a car on my drive so I shouldn't get a courtesy car, but imaging trying to get to work (working shift patterns), Hospital appointments for myself, visiting friends. It's also my birthday soon and need to be able to get round the family houses that can't come to me!

As for naming and shaming the dealer, I do not feel that this would be right. As the matter is still to be fully sorted. 

I have now owned a £15.5K car since 24th May and have been able to drive it for 2.5-3 weeks in total. 

Hopefully Monday will see some advances in the situation. I have decided a date that I would like the issues sorted by, otherwise I will be meeting with my solicitor who is questioning me what is happening!

Atleast I have GTA5 to look forward to, and hopefully giving a friends Mini a good spruce up.

(I have missed cleaning cars that much that I have cleaned the courtesy car, clayed it (someone has bodged a respray of the back bumper and trashed it so that was not touched)


----------



## andy665

Kerr said:


> I wonder why they have offered just one car? It's not as if an Audi main dealer won't have numerous Audi A4s in stock.
> 
> Sounds to me that they either have bigger profit in that car allowing them the movement to do an exchange, or are they a little desperate to get that one car gone?


This would concern me - I agree with Kerr that its very odd to be offered this one specific car - I'd be asking WHY this car

Look at their group used stock yourself and see what else there is available

By offering you this car its pretty much an admission of guilt so I'd be pushing for what you want (as long as its reasonable) - I'd only accept what you have been offered if you are 100% happy with it


----------



## SteveTDCi

I'm confused, under the sales of goods act you would need to allow them time to fix a given fault, I think it's 3 separate fixes on the same fault, I understand your frustration in that in 3 months you have only driven it for 3 of them, however does that include the time it's sat on your drive ? 

What's happening with regards tougher other car you have been offered as a replacement intake it they are dragging there heels over it ? I think the sales of goods act also distinguishes between new and used in that you would not expect a used car to be fault free and without an issue. I would go to cab or whatever it's called now, solicitors only have there own interests at heart and win whether you win or lose.


----------



## asbo

So Update:

You may want to sit down for this one.

Yesterday (18th September) I went to view the car that they had offered, it was not drivable as it was on the ramp having some work done (EGR Valve, 2 new tyres, light cluster) but they let me into the workshop to have a look. Very nice car, liked it very much, so agreed that subject to a test drive to ensure it drove nicely that I would take the car. 

There is a £500 difference in cost, the garage were not willing to pay the whole amount and after much deliberation agreed to make a contribution, its a nice upgrade of a car so thought hey it will get it all over and done with I suppose.

I rang their head of business today, who tells me that in the 2.5 hours after I left the garage (and with the car not being able to be test driven) THEY HAVE SOLD THE CAR!!!!

To say I am fuming is an understatement. If they had offered multiple choices of replacement I would understand that they could not hold them all until I choose, but the fact that they offer one car, to then sell it, they did not apologise for selling it, and were extremely un-sympathetic about the situation. 

I am utterly disgusted but honestly, not surprised!


----------



## DJ X-Ray

Now THAT is taking the ****!


----------



## PugIain

What the fluck?
Refund and walk away.


----------



## Jem

PugIain said:


> What the fluck?
> Refund and walk away.


This, they are taking the royal PlSS now!


----------



## DW58

I think it is time to name and shame - this is totally ridiculous.


----------



## Jem

DW58 said:


> I think it is time to name and shame - this is totally ridiculous.


Agree with this too.


----------



## minibbb

DW58 said:


> I think it is time to name and shame - this is totally ridiculous.


.... Then walk away with your money asap!!


----------



## possul

I'm struggling to understand why you are still dealing with this place.

Are they saying you cannot get a refund? I may of missed it


----------



## xJay1337

Yeah... I don't think that's very good business practice.


----------



## asbo

Yup they are refusing to give a refund saying that are still not accepting liability for the damage. I shall await for them to call tomorrow. Needless to say I have expressed my further disappointment!


----------



## James Bagguley

Cant believe it! Thats terrible conduct on their part, i am keeping my fingers crossed for you bud.

Hope its good news tomorrow, do let us know.


----------



## m1pui

Maybe time to start drafting an email to Auto Express's WatchDog column


----------



## DW58

I just checked back to page one of this thread - I was shocked to see it had been going on since 7th August!

Frankly the dealer is pulling your plonker, that's over six weeks now and you're no further on in reality. If you don't get something sorted tomorrow it's time to escalate the whole matter to Trading Standards, The Press, TV etc., as you're getting nowhere fast.


----------



## alan h M

i think a nicly worded solisiters letter will move this along satisfactorly. 
if you agreed to the swap then they sold your car. verbal contract and all that.
now the next car has to be better that the second car. keep this up and you might get something really nice


----------



## Rundie

One person is in control of this situation and at the moment it don't look like it's you mate :wall:

This Saturday, turn up at the showroom and cause merry hell and make sure potential customers get the message.........never fails :thumb:


----------



## bidderman1969

Trading standards definitely now, Office of fair trading too?

Are they a member of any garage scheme?????


----------



## asbo

Rundie said:


> One person is in control of this situation and at the moment it don't look like it's you mate :wall:
> 
> This Saturday, turn up at the showroom and cause merry hell and make sure potential customers get the message.........never fails :thumb:


Unfortunately I think this would do more harm than good, but also I am at work.



alan h M said:


> i think a nicly worded solisiters letter will move this along satisfactorly.
> if you agreed to the swap then they sold your car. verbal contract and all that.
> now the next car has to be better that the second car. keep this up and you might get something really nice


Yup I am getting a meeting with my solicitor asap.



DW58 said:


> I just checked back to page one of this thread - I was shocked to see it had been going on since 7th August!
> 
> Frankly the dealer is pulling your plonker, that's over six weeks now and you're no further on in reality. If you don't get something sorted tomorrow it's time to escalate the whole matter to Trading Standards, The Press, TV etc., as you're getting nowhere fast.


This is also something I am looking into, should I not get anything tomorrow, I will be looking at twitter/youtube/auto express and the likes


----------



## asbo

bidderman1969 said:


> Trading standards definitely now, Office of fair trading too?
> 
> Are they a member of any garage scheme?????


They are but it only covers new cars for some reason they said that they don't get involved with used cars!

I am looking to get Trading Standards involved also having spoken to the Cosumer Advice line of the CAB


----------



## PugIain

Have you gotten your money back?, and how many did you kill?


----------



## bidderman1969

Has gone a bit quiet.……


----------



## DW58

Surely this must be approaching a conclusion by now?


----------



## slineclean

DW58 said:


> Surely this must be approaching a conclusion by now?


I don't think it will be chap if he's having to seek other help and support.


----------



## ianrobbo1

slineclean said:


> I don't think it will be chap if he's having to seek other help and support.


Something he should have done well before putting it on an open forum, get it all done and dusted, THEN name and shame!! when it's too late for the other party to mess you about and cost you more in the long run 

Dont get me wrong, I have every sympathy with the OP, but not his method of sorting it out, :doublesho


----------



## DW58

I totally agree, while I have every sympathy with the OP I don't have a good feeling about it because the dealer has called every shot to date.


----------



## An03dro

Wot a ****ing shambles. **** me and I thought I had bad luck with dealers. Let's us know if u sorted it


----------



## slineclean

any news


----------



## asbo

Sorry for the lack of replies. Been stupidly busy at work. 

So I was actually at the dealership this morning. We have found a car. A black S-line A4 11 plate (so newer) and around 9-10K miles less.

The car has been held for me, they are recon'ing one of the alloys that is scuffed.

Please note that I found the car on their website and chose it 

I now can't wait to get the mirror finish on the black colour now!


----------



## uruk hai

Well done mate, you stuck to your guns and now the end is in sight. :thumb:


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Glad it's being sorted mate.


----------



## bidderman1969

well done fella, as long as they dont sell it from under you again,


----------



## DW58

I'll believe it when you've got the car in your driveway and there are no problems with it.


----------



## Buck

Sounds like you finally have a good result - looking forward to hearing that you've actually got the car and it's sitting on your drive :thumb:


----------



## asbo

So who wants an update?

So last week a price was agreed for me to contribute towards the car, and Audi UK were also going to contribute some money towards it (why I don't know but I won't complain).

Turns out that the dealership had expected quite a bit more from Audi UK than they were actually getting. (Something a bit dodgy here)

When I went to test drive the car, I thought I could feel a tad of clutch slipping intermittently, so reported this to them, they took me out in the car with a "Master Technician" driving and he said that he can't feel it slipping that some A4 clutches to judder every so often, he could feel that it wasn't a new clutch but its not a new car he didn't think there was anything to worry about.

I said ok, but that I wanted it noted down and that I had told Audi UK just incase it goes wrong. 

So Saturday was pickup morning, I walked into the dealership only to be told "Ash we tried to ring you last night", I nearly went up like a rocket expecting that something had gone wrong. 

When the Sales Manager had come back from his holiday and heard that the technician had said the clutch was OK, he went to the business manager, and they agreed to replace it anyway as a "gesture of goodwill", now wether this is a G.O.G.W or not I will definitely be able to notice if they have replaced the clutch or not.

They said I should just keep the old car until its all done, but I had uninsured it and therefore couldn't take it. They agreed to give me a service loan car until mine is done. 

So Wednesday I should finally be picking up the car. Obviously before I signed any paperwork I went and checked the car, it looked ok, obviously had a dealer mopping done to It but hopefully I will be able to do a bit more and refine it more. 

The fact that I now have one of their cars is making me feel a tad happier as they won't be getting it back until I have mine. 

Ash


----------



## SteveTDCi

Your getting there slowly, and now you have a loan car they have every reason to get your new one delivered as quickly as possible


----------



## uruk hai

Thanks for the update mate, your so close now, all your effort, patience and refusal to give up is hopefully about to pay off.

Well done so far and fingers crossed. :thumb:


----------



## asbo

I've also just ordered some more stuff from CYC so hopefully I get that and the car on Wednesday, and the weather is reasonable!!!


----------



## PugIain

Fingers crossed :wave:


----------



## Kerr

You've agreed to change your car that you had faults with, for a car with a fault that needs fixed? 

I'm sorry but I test drove a modern car and detected a slipping clutch, that would make me rule out the car right away. 

I genuinely hope that nothing is wrong or can be fixed, but going by the previous in this thread, alarm bells are ringing already.


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## SteveTDCi

Vag clutches are very weak IMO and I'd be happier having a car that's had a new clutch than one that had covered 40k


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## asbo

Kerr said:


> You've agreed to change your car that you had faults with, for a car with a fault that needs fixed?
> 
> I'm sorry but I test drove a modern car and detected a slipping clutch, that would make me rule out the car right away.
> 
> I genuinely hope that nothing is wrong or can be fixed, but going by the previous in this thread, alarm bells are ringing already.


It's a second hand car that has covered 40k miles, it will have clutch wear, its actually a consumable part that isn't covered by the warranty, therefore getting it replaced is only a good thing. VAG clutches are weak as has already been stated.


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## asbo

SteveTDCi said:


> Vag clutches are very weak IMO and I'd be happier having a car that's had a new clutch than one that had covered 40k


My thoughts exactly sir.


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## S63

Quote
" Turns out that the dealership had expected quite a bit more from Audi UK than they were actually getting. (Something a bit dodgy here)"

Why do you think that's dodgy? Dealerships are always at loggerheads with manufacturers regarding warranty, goodwill issues etc...it's the norm.


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## asbo

S63 said:


> Quote
> " Turns out that the dealership had expected quite a bit more from Audi UK than they were actually getting. (Something a bit dodgy here)"
> 
> Why do you think that's dodgy? Dealerships are always at loggerheads with manufacturers regarding warranty, goodwill issues etc...it's the norm.


Sorry this was worded incorrectly. Audi UK had told the dealership how much they were willing to pay towards to replacement, but then the dealership put it on paper that they were paying more...Audi UK had to inform them this was not happening.


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## Kerr

asbo said:


> It's a second hand car that has covered 40k miles, it will have clutch wear, its actually a consumable part that isn't covered by the warranty, therefore getting it replaced is only a good thing. VAG clutches are weak as has already been stated.


I still expect it to be a rare thing to have a slipping clutch on a 40k car. I did know they were weak but it is still a gauge of how the car has been treated and its mechanical condition.

Without reading back through the entire thread, it sounds utterly familiar with your original car. Faults detected on the test drive, you still bought it and this lead to various visits to the garage and a fair amount of work.

You weren't happy with their workmanship that also ultimately ended with a dent on the underside of the car.

Now you are trusting them to carry out work similar to they messed up in the past.

The entire scenario has been a mess. I did say the last time when they offered you only one car, that sounded very wrong. I did bet at that time it was either a lemon or a car with unusually high profit.

Now you've found/been offered another approved used car and that also has issues. A slipping clutch has made it through the approved checks again.

Asbo, I genuinely hope this car turns out to be a sweet car for you, but the entire situation really doesn't look good.

You've already found to your anger/dissatisfaction on quite a few occasions the dealer can't be trusted. Handing you another car that isn't right lowers my confidence further.


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## 182_Blue

asbo said:


> It's a second hand car that has covered 40k miles, it will have clutch wear, its actually a consumable part that isn't covered by the warranty, therefore getting it replaced is only a good thing. VAG clutches are weak as has already been stated.


Was it a kind of rumble as you pulled away in first ?


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## PugIain

asbo said:


> Sorry this was worded incorrectly. Audi UK had told the dealership how much they were willing to pay towards to replacement, but then the dealership put it on paper that they were paying more...Audi UK had to inform them this was not happening.


But of course you won't be paying any short fall.

Will you! No!


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## eddie bullit

Very surprised a clutch needs doing at 40k.
I've been supportive of you through this seems a little worrying. I was under the impression you'd lost faith in this garage? I'd be worried about having them do work on another car.
Good luck with it..lets hope you're successful this time.
I personally wouldn't p*&s on a dealership who treated me like this.


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## SteveTDCi

Modern clutches just don't last as long as non dmf asbestos less ones. Our ford galaxy's got through a number of them, best was 3 in just under 30k


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## xJay1337

SteveTDCi said:


> Vag clutches are very weak IMO and I'd be happier having a car that's had a new clutch than one that had covered 40k


Have you got any proof of that?

My DMF and clutch on my old TDI went at 113k, I had it remapped at 103k and drove it quite hard.

My housemates Audi A3 8P TDI is on 98k and clutch is still OK

Friends 120k 1.8 non turbo Mk4 is on standard clutch and no problems.

Some cars do last less than others but VAGs are perfectly hardwearing IMHO.

Anyway as Kerr says it sounds like the start of the same situation just with a different car.


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## SteveTDCi

xJay1337 said:


> Have you got any proof of that?
> 
> My DMF and clutch on my old TDI went at 113k, I had it remapped at 103k and drove it quite hard.
> 
> My housemates Audi A3 8P TDI is on 98k and clutch is still OK
> 
> Friends 120k 1.8 non turbo Mk4 is on standard clutch and no problems.
> 
> Some cars do last less than others but VAGs are perfectly hardwearing IMHO.
> 
> Anyway as Kerr says it sounds like the start of the same situation just with a different car.


Clutch was slipping slightly on my cupra, 52k, my golf gt td at 50k, we have had a clutch fitted in a couple of our pool cars all less than 30k, my polo 6n with 80k needed a clutch, the pressure plate was weak and you have to change before it snaps the pedal box, diff bearings go and 5th gear whine is the star - again common problem, someone at work the selector shaft failed leaving you with no drive, that was a mk4, again a common problem, so yes I've a little experience oh and the mk7 golf hire car I had 3 weeks ago had no syncro on 4th gear. Not so reliable are they :lol:


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## possul

Probably driver error Steve


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## xJay1337

possul said:


> Probably driver error Steve


That's what I was going to say!

My TDI needed a clutch at 113k as I said but it was tuned. I stuck a Stage 3 clutch in there for the future power.
My DSG GTI has 93k on it and fine so far
Mates R32 is fine DSG on 75k I think.

145k PD150 Bora on standard clutch still...plus the ones listed previously.

There are gearbox problems on the 1.4s and 1.6 mk4s these were very common issues (in the grand scheme of things) but majoritvely VAG boxes are no weaker than any other brand. Even my TDI I blew a gearbox but running more than twice standard BHP after a day abuse at the 'Pod I think I can forgive it that.

Then again some people don't know how to drive a manual car.

I had a Ford Fiesta 1.2 ecocrap thing in Scotland (62 plate) and it sounded like the timing chain was about to fall off.. but do I say all fords are rubbish? no 

80k for a little town car is good I think.. if you are using the clutch constantly it would only naturally wear it down? The pedal box snapping you mean the clutch pedal breaking? This has nothing to do with the clutch at all and a design flaw with the clutch pedal itself.


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## SteveTDCi

possul said:


> Probably driver error Steve


Oi, get back in yer workshop 

In my two defence they were both remapped, but looking at the net vw don't have the best reputations with clutches and gearboxes. Oh and all of my fords have been fine, never needed a clutch on much higher miles


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## asbo

Update:

I HAVE A CAR! 

Picked it up today. Lovely light clutch. Just gotta take it easy with it for a good while at least!

I am now sitting in my house waiting for the rain to stop wanting to get out there and play with it! :'(


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## PugIain

asbo said:


> Update:
> 
> I HAVE A CAR!
> 
> Picked it up today. Lovely light clutch. Just gotta take it easy with it for a good while at least!
> 
> I am now sitting in my house waiting for the rain to stop wanting to get out there and play with it! :'(


Good stuff.
Ref the rain, you may be waiting a while. It's been raining all day here 
I wanted to get out and stick another coat of wax on the tank too.


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## ianrobbo1

asbo said:


> Update:
> 
> I HAVE A CAR!


Care to elaborate a little more please??


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## asbo

2011 A4 S-Line 2.0TDI in black. 

She's a beaut!


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## James Bagguley

Congratulations buddy, glad to hear your tenacity in pursuing the issue paid off :thumb:


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