# Nano Spray Coatings: Permanon vs. C2 vs. Reload



## CEE DOG (Nov 13, 2010)

*Nano Spray Coatings: Permanon vs. C2 vs. Reload*

About 4 months ago I recoated half of this test panel with coatings after using it for rotary training. So the test panel had 1/4 of it with CQ, 1/4 of it with OC and the other half with polymer sealants.

This was how it looked this morning before I got started.

After sitting for a few months










I washed the last few months of dust off and went over it real quick with 205/tangerine pad and then 85RD/crimson pad on my Flex PE-14. It was then thoroughly stripped of any oils, etc.










*From Left to Right I applied as follows:*

Reload over CQuartz
Permanon Platinum (10% Dilution) over CQuartz
Permanon Platinum (10% Dilution) over OptiCoat 
Reload over OptiCoat
Gtechnique C2 (neat)
Gtechnique C2 (10% Dilution)
Reload (neat)
Permanon Platinum (10% Dilution) -Top half buffed off with towel / Bottom half blown of with MB
Permanon Platinum (neat)
Duragloss Aquawax
Dodo Juice Red Mist

*Video: Timeline & Application*






After that I placed the panel in the sun for the day.










Just before the evening thunderstorms came I setup the video camera and created the first in a series of tests. This first test would be the sheeting test.

*Video: Test #1 (Sheeting)*






Additionally I sprayed the panel with a finer mist than was used for sheeting and took some beading photos. I have some thoughts on which are more spherically held off the paint vs. domed but I'll let you judge for yourself.

*Gtechniq C2*










*CarPro Reload*










*Permanon Platinum*










*Methods of Application:*

Other methods of application are obviously available and I could get into this deeper but that's for another time. This is a comparison so basically a summary and generalization will have to do here. There are further tips that should be considered if you use these products.

*CarPro Reload: *

1.- Spray sparingly across section (Approximately 1 spray per 3 sq. ft.)
2.- Wipe and spread immediately
3.- Flip towel and buff off immediately

*Gtechniq C2:*

1.- Spray across section
2.- Wipe and spread immediately
3.- Flip towel and buff off. (Use harder pressure for higher gloss)
4.- Note: Can also be diluted and applied like Permanon (shown below) but is considered a booster when applied this way according to Gtechniq

*Permanon Platinum:*

1.- Dilute 10% Permanon to 90% Distilled water
2.- Mist onto a pre-cleaned and rinsed surface
3.- Blow off or Rinse and wipe dry

The reason I even mention this is specifically the fact that the directions from Gtech and Permanon are so different. If they are the same thing why would one be suggested to press hard and the other be suggested just to rinse off? I'm not suggesting they are so different but rather pointing out that something doesn't add up among the currently accepted information. Now of course Gtech C2 can also be Diluted similar to Permanon, etc. but why then does Permanon not have a method for applying neat like Gtech does?

Basically from the information available Reload is the cheapest option but Permanon or C2 diluted can be misted onto any manner of wheels, calipers, wheel wells, etc. and then simply blow off which gives them a benefit for hard to reach places.

*Dust Free?*

The next update will show if there is any difference in the resistance to dust on the sections of the panel. My prediction is the dust magnetism will be identical among all 3 nano products. I will also add a test to my daily driver as I believe the dust will be blown off of a moving vehicle. I've noted this happens with the Reload I currently have on my vehicle.

*Pricing:*

Costs gets a little blurry between these 3 products due to different recommendations of application method by manufacturers. First it is said that Gtechniq and Permanon are the same except for the fact Permanon just came out with Platinum which was what I used in my testing. Platinum is more costly that the other level of Permanon which is equal in price to Gtechniq C2.

Now, lets move forward with the idea that both Permanon and C2 are basically the same product. The directions are different from these two companies.

If you take Reload and C2 side by side the Reload is less than half the price per oz. The place where it gets confusing is the fact that you can dilute C2 to create a booster product. Once diluted it would then be cheaper except for the fact that if you follow the directions from Permanon on how to apply their diluted product which is supposedly similar to the Gtech C2 you have to mist much more product which places it back on the more expensive than Reload category.

Therefore the question becomes... Can you dilute Gtech C2 or PP and apply it the way you apply Reload or the way you apply C2 undiluted? In other words still use a minimal amount of product.... I have a test set up for this as well and look forward to seeing what the durability is for this case but everything seems to point towards C2 and PP needing to be misted thoroughly to get good durability.










Additional Products used for this comparison:

Rolled edge mf towels
CarPro MicroFiber Terry Towel (40x40cm) 
CarPro Plush Microfiber glove


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

brilliant test cee dog..

for me, I think the Reload has the nicest beading.. much more pronounced and taller..

the permanon the worst.. sort of domed and flat rather than spherical.


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## E38_ross (May 10, 2010)

nice test, but how come you are testing some spray sealants over much more durable ones like Cquartz? surely once the initial coating wears off you'll still have the properties of Cquartz and think it'll be reload doing the trick too, no??


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

Permanon Platinum is Aircraft over here and can be applied neat, they say dilute purely for product measures as they say it is not necessary to over apply it....C2 is Boat or Yacht Supershine cant remember which one and if certain manufacturers say apply neat a product where you know can be applied diluted then thats a choice only you can make....

Regarding beading you would expect a neat application to be more uniform and pronounced but in the case of both C2 and Permanon they are almost identical, its only the camera angle that makes them look different IMO which leads you to think is neat application of C2 any better than diluted C2/Permanon....

What you have to remember is that the manufacturers of Permanon know best how to apply their product....

You say in the sheeting video that aqua wax and red mist keeps up with Permanon neat, scratch back a few seconds or so to Permanon 10% and Reload you will find exactly the same situation, in fact at 2mins 54ish you wet the whole half and there isnt really much in them but aqua wax and RM or slowest to move water....

Nice test but for me when the panel is flat you add more flow to the end nearest the hose which makes sheeting look slow so the nearest the lowest amount of water will sheet quicker....

not disputing your test as all these are needed for product confirmation of ability but for me not much in the neat applications of Reload,C2 and Permanon and nothing between Diluted C2 and Permanon....the only difference between those 2 is durability and Aircraft/Platinum has around 10 months.....


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## CEE DOG (Nov 13, 2010)

CraigQQ said:


> brilliant test cee dog..
> 
> for me, I think the Reload has the nicest beading.. much more pronounced and taller..
> 
> the permanon the worst.. sort of domed and flat rather than spherical.


Thank you Craig! I found the Reload to be slightly more spherical as well. The other two were very close but exactly like you say a little closer to domed and resting nearer their hemisphere.



E21_ross said:


> nice test, but how come you are testing some spray sealants over much more durable ones like Cquartz? surely once the initial coating wears off you'll still have the properties of Cquartz and think it'll be reload doing the trick too, no??


Thank you. Well, the test was meant to only be spray coatings over raw paint but I had those true coatings on there already from a test I did previously and a friend asked that I test the spray sealants over them as well. The real test is on the side without coatings. Consider the left side a bonus or ignore it if you wish. 



Reflectology said:


> Permanon Platinum is Aircraft over here and can be applied neat, they say dilute purely for product measures as they say it is not necessary to over apply it....C2 is Boat or Yacht Supershine cant remember which one and if certain manufacturers say apply neat a product where you know can be applied diluted then thats a choice only you can make....
> 
> Regarding beading you would expect a neat application to be more uniform and pronounced but in the case of both C2 and Permanon they are almost identical, its only the camera angle that makes them look different IMO which leads you to think is neat application of C2 any better than diluted C2/Permanon....
> 
> ...


Thanks for the comments :thumb: As far as where I was holding the hose on the horizontal side I was actually showing how all of the spray coatings were trying to push back the water. There was enough video that everyone can see the sheeting is very similar and like I said in the video the curvature of the panel is really botching a fair speed test. What I got from it was they all sheet water very well. Like I mentioned I placed shims under the panel and used levels to try to make it flat but because of the panel curvature you saw the water pool in the center a bit trying to find an escape route.

I agree that manufacturers know best how to apply their product but the market also finds new things. My goal isn't to insinuate how they should be applied but to do a series of tests to see if dilution and application makes a big difference in durability. At first thought you would indeed expect neat to sheet faster or bead differently but if you think about the product technology for a second (with permanon for example) the layer of nano you put down is very thin and the rest is washed away. So once you have the thin membrane of glass it's not going to act any differently if you had applied more of it. The thing is to figure out how much and what application methods give you complete coverage for the best price. Now what I am really curious about and what will show over time is if there is a difference in durability with different methods to find what is and isn't cost effective. I'll be adding side by side tests from my daily driver as well.

Your right about the Duragloss and red mist sheeting slower but they sheeted closer to the speed of the nanos next to them than I had expected. Those 2 products can also be disregarded for this test. Take what you will from it. :wave:


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## CEE DOG (Nov 13, 2010)

*Second Test (Multiple Dawn Washes)

First I'll let you watch the video:*






The washes I put the panel through were with an aggressive dilution of Dawn dishwashing soap which is well know for cutting through all oils and being an aggressive stripping wash for a vehicle.

I found it very interesting that the Reload applied over Cquartz still sheeted faster than anything but where it was applied by itself and OC the sheeting was impaired. The odd part comes from the fact that it sheets slow on the OC side after the multiple Dawn washes. We know the OC can't be affected by Dawn. Therefore we must conclude that the Reload is still there on some capacity because if it wasn't the OC would be sheeting like it always does.

I was surprised the Permanon Platinum and Reload were noticeably affected by the Dawn. It is only one test so we will have to repeat the tests to rule out oddities but based on the controls I had in place I am fairly confident in the results. Keep an eye out for more tests in the future.


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## podgas (Apr 4, 2010)

Hi

When is your next update ?:buffer:


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

I have got to admit to loving Reload, its a fantastic product and you can use it on anything to. It even works on the windscreen and the water just flys off once you are moving and wipers do not smear or judder.


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