# Using mobile phone when driving



## shane_ctr (Dec 17, 2006)

As above just want to warn everyone.

I got in the car this morning and put my phone on my drivers seat, i was driving along on a straight road at 40mph and my phone made a noise to alert me i had a message i glanced across at my screen at this point i picked it up and placed it in my drivers side pocket at no point did i unlock the phone, or attempted to reply to the message etc. Then from out of the trees a police motorbike appeared and waved me down. I pulled over and he explained why he had pulled me over and said it doesn't matter if you had been using the phone or not you moved it and by holding it your committing an offence. I wasn't going to start arguing with the officer as i don't think it will achieve anything but what i did say was its no different to moving anything in the car, or adjusting my heating etc.

I have been reported for the offence and told i will be getting 3 penalty points and a £100 fine. From now on i plan to put my phone in my glovebox.


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## shycho (Sep 7, 2010)

I can understand the reasoning, as for that split second you did take your eyes off the road. 
But what if it were raining, and the sun suddenly came out? I'm sure you'd also take your eyes off the road for a split second to grab your sunglasses? 
Or what if your windscreen started to mist up slightly? Would they also report you for turning on the blowers to clear any condensation?

Be interesting to know if this copper had to cycle on a foot path to flag you down.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

As soon as the phone is in your hands that's it for me. 

You were distracted enough to grab it, then you read the screen before putting it away. Although you never actually answered it, you were still dealing with the phone whilst driving. 

I'm sure the officer hears the same excuse about not actually using it all the time. You might be genuine, but I bet most aren't.

I'm sure I read there is a campaign on just now to catch drivers using the mobile.


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## shane_ctr (Dec 17, 2006)

shycho said:


> I can understand the reasoning, as for that split second you did take your eyes off the road.
> But what if it were raining, and the sun suddenly came out? I'm sure you'd also take your eyes off the road for a split second to grab your sunglasses?
> Or what if your windscreen started to mist up slightly? Would they also report you for turning on the blowers to clear any condensation?
> 
> Be interesting to know if this copper had to cycle on a foot path to flag you down.


Sorry just edited the message it was a police motorcycle.

Yes i agree with this. i will admit in the past before i had bluetooth i used to answer calls and put on loud speaker and put on the seat but now having bluetooth in the car this doesn't happen. I moved it from the seat to the drivers side pocket to stop it from being a distraction. When i was pulled the alert was still on the screen which showed i hadn't attempted to reply.

Im not trying to get out of it but just letting people know it appears that touching of the device in any way is illegal.

Just checking i assume i will get a CU80 I'm finding conflicting information some saying these are removed after 4 years and some say 5 years.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

The actual offence is either having it blocking your view or "using" a mobile or hand held device.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/41D

I guess the only trouble you will now have is proving that you were not using it.

Using a heater or doing other things is actually different, same as sat navs etc, i believe it is something to do with being OK but if your driving is affected by it, then you could face prosecution. The hard bit here would be the police proving your driving was affected by it.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

I don't condone using a mobile but your big mistake was admitting you moved it. If you'd denied it he would have had to take you to court to prove it. As soon as you admitted it it was an easy ticket for him.


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## shane_ctr (Dec 17, 2006)

Kerr said:


> As soon as the phone is in your hands that's it for me.
> 
> You were distracted enough to grab it, then you read the screen before putting it away. Although you never actually answered it, you were still dealing with the phone whilst driving.
> 
> ...


As just said in my last reply I'm not trying to get out of the conviction and i admitted what i did.

whilst the phone was in my hand the screen was dark and i placed it in my drivers side pocket the only time i saw the screen lit was when it was on the passenger seat.


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

That's very heavy handed IMO. I'd go to court for that.

I don't count moving anything as using it, sounds ridiculous to me.


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## steve6690 (Feb 25, 2016)

Ok, there's no requirement to prove that your driving was affected and if you'd read the text on the screen when the phone was in a cradle you'd be ok. By picking it up and reading the text you were "using a handheld device".
It's actually quite a strict piece of legislation in that you even commit the offence while stationary e.g waiting at a red light. As always though, there is some discretion in how the officer deals with it. Unfortunately for you it's "Mobile phone month" this November so there's an ongoing operation to specifically target this offence.


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## shane_ctr (Dec 17, 2006)

steve6690 said:


> Ok, there's no requirement to prove that your driving was affected and if you'd read the text on the screen when the phone was in a cradle you'd be ok. By picking it up and reading the text you were "using a handheld device".
> It's actually quite a strict piece of legislation in that you even commit the offence while stationary e.g waiting at a red light. As always though, there is some discretion in how the officer deals with it. Unfortunately for you it's "Mobile phone month" this November so there's an ongoing operation to specifically target this offence.


As i mentioned earlier in the post i did not read the alert on my screen whilst in my hand. The alert came through while on my passenger seat in which i glanced at it. the screen was off when i picked the phone up and placed it in my drivers side pocket.


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## steve6690 (Feb 25, 2016)

shane_ctr said:


> As i mentioned earlier in the post i did not read the alert on my screen whilst in my hand. The alert came through while on my passenger seat in which i glanced at it. the screen was off when i picked the phone up and placed it in my drivers side pocket.


Your original post said that you glanced across at the screen and at that point you picked it up. It reads to me that you picked it up while glancing at the screen. Why was it on your drivers seat in the first place ?
No court is going to believe that you didn't pick the phone up in order to read the text but, if as you said, you simply moved the phone without looking at it or trying to operate it, then you haven't committed an offence and should deny it.
I would wait to receive the conditional offer of 3 points and £100 fine and ask for a copy of the officers statement. If that statement matches your account then the ticket will be cancelled, of that I am sure.

http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/drivers/distraction/mobile-phones/


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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

never admit anything to a copper in the first instance. they would have to have proved you was using it. with no cctv or network provider in formation - such as call, text or data you may have not be prosecuted. 

saying that its a bad time due to the, rightful, clampdown on 'proper' phone usage. ive no doubt the copper has been tasked this week tom have zero tolerance and issue as many tickets as he can. shame as a strong word and some advice would have had a better response for yourself in this case.

if i was you id put it to experience and be happy its not 6 points and a bigger fine yet.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Thanks for the heads up Shane, put it down to experience, that's why I now have my phone turned off and locked away in the boot until I've reached my destination.


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## shane_ctr (Dec 17, 2006)

kingswood said:


> never admit anything to a copper in the first instance. they would have to have proved you was using it. with no cctv or network provider in formation - such as call, text or data you may have not be prosecuted.
> 
> saying that its a bad time due to the, rightful, clampdown on 'proper' phone usage. ive no doubt the copper has been tasked this week tom have zero tolerance and issue as many tickets as he can. shame as a strong word and some advice would have had a better response for yourself in this case.
> 
> if i was you id put it to experience and be happy its not 6 points and a bigger fine yet.


Yea i think that was my biggest mistake.

I think your right if it was a couple of weeks ago i would have probably had a talking to and sent on my way, The office was a decent guy and not an ass like a certain amount are. I didn't have my licence on me at the time so he got that and ran a check on the car and said as i expected its insured, MOT, etc etc and I'm not going to waste your time as i can see the car is well cared for. He even apologised for ticketing me so i feel he was sent out on a mission to hit hard.

The only good point was that when i was sent on my way i pulled away and went back round a roundabout to carry on my journey and was cut up by some old people clearly in the wrong lane luckily holding on my horn stopped them from hitting me the officer saw this and overtook me and pulled the car over. :thumb:


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## shane_ctr (Dec 17, 2006)

Soul boy 68 said:


> Thanks for the heads up Shane, put it down to experience, that's why I now have my phone turned off and locked away in the boot until I've reached my destination.
> 
> View attachment 48775


I think thats a good idea actually to store it in my Briefcase in the boot.

:thumb:


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Mine stays in my pocket.

Texts and calls are all done via Bluetooth and voice recognition.


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## waqasr (Oct 22, 2011)

I think that was a little heavy handed tbh. So is it illegal to touch your sat nav while driving? or changing a cd?


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## Blackroc (Dec 10, 2012)

About 4 years ago I did the same as the OP whilst sat in stationary traffic. An unmarked Police car was sat along side me and pulled me over - and were quite apologetic that they had to stop me and report it as an offence. They advised me to take the driving course rather than take the 3 points which I did.

On the course, the tutor explained that Police interpretation is that the moment your car keys are in the ignition and the engine is running it is an offence to touch your mobile phone. One woman on the course had been stopped by officers whilst parked up in a parking spot in Tesco and was on her phone!! It just goes to show how zero tolerant of it they are!


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

I think the point is, as soon as they add a clause, you get all sorts of grey areas and ways for people to make excuses that it never gets enforced. 

And yes, while sitting at lights is the most irritating!! Amount of times I have not got through cos the guy in front was distracted and didn't notice the cars moving. What about bikes...? They have no idea if one is coming down the side, see the green and panic so accelerate and have no idea of their surrounding. 

As said, should be the same as drink driving. Zero alcohol if you are driving. As soon as you have limits you get a people still doing it because they don't realise what the limit is. Mobile phone in the glovebox or bag while driving. Zero confusion and zero tolerance.

Admittedly the car park one is harsh, but presumably she had her engine running while parked, which is another pet hate of mine...


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

That Tesco carpark one doesn't add up/seem to be fair? You're told to pull over if you want to take a call etc so how can that be fair? Unless she was being creative with the truth and they followed her into Tesco?


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## Lugy (Nov 4, 2009)

waqasr said:


> So is it illegal to touch your sat nav while driving? or changing a cd?


IIRC it can come down as driving without due care, as can eating or drinking while driving, though it'd boil down to your standard of driving and what your eating :lol:.

Here's a case of someone using a sat nav and killing a cyclist (first result on Google).... http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3825703.ece


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

I dont think you need to go that far just use some common sense.

I personally now hook my phone up to the CarPlay (in the 208) or bluetooth (in the Mazda, Jeep & TVR) choose the music I want then put it in the centre console and dont touch it again till I get back out of the car. You dont need to turn it off or lock it in the boot just use some self control and put it in the door pocket and dont touch the bloody thing. Quite simple really. If you can answer the phone on the handsfree without touching the phone then so be it if not let the ting ring out to VM

If you are unable to do that and get distracted that easily I would be asking the question of your ability to drive a car and concentrate on whats important. By the way this is not meant as an insult its just how I have taken it from various posts.

I used to be fiddling with my phone a lot of the time but took a conscious decision 3-4 months ago to ban myself from touching my phone at all whilst in transit...not looked back.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

nick_mcuk said:


> I dont think you need to go that far just use some common sense.
> 
> I personally now hook my phone up to the CarPlay (in the 208) or bluetooth (in the Mazda, Jeep & TVR) choose the music I want then put it in the centre console and dont touch it again till I get back out of the car. You dont need to turn it off or lock it in the boot just use some self control and put it in the door pocket and dont touch the bloody thing. Quite simple really. If you can answer the phone on the handsfree without touching the phone then so be it if not let the ting ring out to VM
> 
> ...


I think that's precisely the problem mate...people can't put it down for 5mins without checking their social media, and they don't have common sense....


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Social media, pah. 

I have Bluetooth in my car. So my phone goes in the front arm rest storage and stays there. If someone texts me they can wait, or call me if it's vital.

Sent from my Vodafone Smart ultra 6


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Mine just stays in my pocket or goes in the cubby hole in front of the gear stick or on a window mount for sat nav/so I can see it on long journeys.

If the phone rings I usually go to the nearest car park or something to ring back as neither of my 2 old pieces of poo have handsfree in them


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## sshooie (May 15, 2007)

Previous company had a total ban on using phones in cars, it's bode me well, I never take it from the centre console when driving.


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## sshooie (May 15, 2007)

nick_mcuk said:


> I used to be fiddling with my phone a lot of the time but took a conscious decision 3-4 months ago to ban myself from touching my phone at all whilst in transit...not looked back.


 You've mentioned every other car you have, but missed the Transit...


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

sshooie said:


> You've mentioned every other car you have, but missed the Transit...


LOL you crack me up..only transit i have ever driven was a hired one when I moved my grandma stuff out of her flat and she has been dead 10 years!


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## brobbo (Oct 19, 2007)

now I'm not probing you or anything, but if you had no intention of reading it in the first place why did you touch it?
why not just leave it until you get to your destination?


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## DLGWRX02 (Apr 6, 2010)

brobbo said:


> now I'm not probing you or anything, but if you had no intention of reading it in the first place why did you touch it?
> why not just leave it until you get to your destination?


He did say somewhere on the first page he moved it to stop it becoming any further distraction


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

DLGWRX02 said:


> He did say somewhere on the first page he moved it to stop it becoming any further distraction


Its a shame that he consciously moved it for that purpose - "if" it had been the case that he had noticed the phone sliding about and had transferred it to the drivers pocket to avoid it sliding under the pedals and so causing an accident, then no offence would have been committed (or at least no offence that the CPS would deem to have a more than reasonable chance of prosecuting ), provided it had seemed unreasonable / unsafe / illegal to pull over to the side of the road for that purpose at that time.

The worst case would likely have been an irritated copper advising him about stowing things safely before starting a journey, whilst giving him "That" look that only coppers are capable of.....

But, as others have said, you risk prosecution if you pick up a phone whilst driving, for whatever reason.


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## Midlife (Sep 6, 2016)

Picked my young daughter up from school yesterday and there's a Zebra crossing close by a roundabout ( not a great layout ). Anyway as I was waiting for her to come out a youngish woman hadn't noticed the car in front had stopped to let some kids cross. The reason she hadn't noticed was as she skidded to a halt on the roundabout with half the schools parents watching was the fact that she had a mobile phone in her hand and was clearly looking down at it. The anger rose up inside of me as it's just so ....king stupid Stop using a phone when your in the car have some common sense. Rant over.


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

Its the texting and social media, i think, is the real danger.

Many cars have Bluetooth as standard now, so answering a quick call is less dangerous than talking to a passenger. 

If you have an older car or end up in a low spec borrowed / hire car and phone is important to you then sun visor type hands free kits are only £20 - £30, so there really is no excuse. 

If you cant be bothered learning how to pair a phone to a bluetooth system (which takes all of 30 seconds), then you deserve to be locked up anyway.

Its the people holding phones and looking down at the screen is the danger - especially the ones holding the phone down low on their lap, so they don't get seen by the Police....


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

GleemSpray said:


> Its the texting and social media, i think, is the real danger.
> 
> Many cars have Bluetooth as standard now, so answering a quick call is less dangerous than talking to a passenger.
> 
> ...


Agree overall, but would challenge the 'a quick call is less dangerous than talking to a passenger' statement.

Research is showing that even handsfree leads to added risk over and above talking to passengers.

http://www.livescience.com/55003-distracted-driving-hands-free-phone.html

While legal, I even avoid driving and talking on my cars BT calling as I notice that I am more distracted than if I wasn't on the call.

But yes, those checking FaceBook while the phone is on their lap is just terrifying....


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## Ravinder (Jul 24, 2009)

That's unlucky but at least you were honest about it. I can see where the police man is coming from too. As said already, they hear this a million times a day I'm sure. I see people on their phones every single day, it's unbelievable. I bet most people are on Facebook or instagram. I still see people speaking on their phones but not as much as either texting or browsing social media sites. I saw a young girl on her phone yesterday taking pictures of the sunset as she was driving! I felt blasting my horn at her. 

There is simply too much of this going on and with a shortage of police on the roads, these drivers are getting away with too much and this needs to change. The odd campaign now and again won't make much difference. They have to do it all the time or nothing will change.


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## ffrs1444 (Jun 7, 2008)

Even drinking can get you points if they feel your not in control of your car , Hope they change it to 6 points every morning on the M25 load of retards on the phone and the make it Obvious


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

It'll reduce massively once camera evidence starts getting used nationally. N Wales speed vans have been used for a while now and a few other areas are starting to use them. It'll become widespread soon and drivers will eventually get the message.


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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

what about all the drivers eating, drinking, reading, smoking, putting make up on, adjusting the radio, high on drugs,trying to work out all them mulit media drives on new cars? 

have you seen the ipad in the new telsea? when do they expect you to use it?

all are equally as distracting as using a phone. the phone usage is easy to prove and easy to get the money in fines.

what the roads need is more police on it but they wont invest. more cameras for speeding and phones but no extra police for bad driving or drunk driving, or drug driving. 

the list goes on. hopefully it will come as socially unacceptable as driving without a belt and drink driving


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## pxr5 (Feb 13, 2012)

I always feel like there is something I need to do when it's obvious someone is using their phone - but what?


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## K777mk2 (Jun 30, 2016)

pxr5 said:


> I always feel like there is something I need to do when it's obvious someone is using their phone - but what?


i know what you mean.

And so many times I follow a car that looks like the driver is ****ed, and just assume they are texting whilst driving.

As far as the OP is concerned it does seem a bit harsh, but you did the right thing, pointless debating or arguing, they will win each and everytime.

For the Tesco one, its on private land not adopted highway - can they really prosecute you ?

Often i pull over to read a message and reply, I guess i need to take the key out rather than just stop at the side of the road.


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## Siggy12 (Jun 15, 2014)

I still don't know why smoking is permitted in cars, you have to take a *** out of a packet, then your lighter or electronic *** lighter, which is red hot, put it near your face, are your eyes still on the road here? 
Oh wait!!, smoking generates millions of pounds in govt revenue, how silly of me 

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