# Estate Agents....aaarrgghh!



## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

As you know, or may not, the mrs and I are looking for a house. We live in birmingham and are looking at specific areas, Hall Green & Moseley.

We saw a house that we liked but was too much out of price range, we saw it on rightmove.

Anyway the price started at £205k, then dropped to £190k, then dropped to Offers in Excess of £180k.

So we decided to go and have a look.

Viewed twice and put an offer in of £165k to start. Rejected

Then £167500. rejected. Then finally £170k and i said i cant do any more this is my last and final offer.

EA came back and said rejected, the vendor is looking for something beginning with £18?k.

So i assumed £180k would be accesptable, it was offers in excess of £180k.

i didnt put in a higher offer and stuck to my guns, were in a good position, no chain, good deposit etc etc.

2 weeks or so later, house disappers off rightmove, i check and it says Sold STC.

I say Oh Well, mrs is a bit gutted, such is life.

Wednesday just gone the house is back on Rightmove for OIEO £180k.

The same day the estate agents call me and offer me a different house on the same road, £220k, way out of my reach BUT didnt say anything about the one we had seen twice. So i asked and said its come back on, im assuming there was a problem with the survey.

she said no, the guy who wanted to buy is still interested but he has a few complications on his side, i say ok, well its back on the market, how much is the vendor looking for? she says she cant tell me etc but then did say 'you'd have to increase your offer by 3'. i said ok, can i get a viewing.

im now under the impression the lowest the vendor would take is £173k.

viewing arranged for saturday, the EA showed us around, he was a new guy, and was a ****! but thats another story.

anyway we enter the house and i ask, has the vendor moved out, he says no but a sale has been agreed.

i say hold on, vicky said the sale wasnt going through and thats why its been remarketed.

he said no a sale has been accepted and if you want this house you have to increase your offer (so now i click that they want us to get into a bidding war).

so i said why did the vendor take it off the market and then remarket it???? he said to see if she has any better offers.

so i said what kind of money is she looking for and he said i cant tell you, so i said i dont know what im working with and he went on to say he works for the vendor and not for me etc,

so i told him to get Vicky to call me and ill speak to her and then promptly left without viewing after telling him they (the EA) had wasted my time.

I was fuming that day!

anyway, the story doesnt make sense and i feel the EA are playing games. If the vendor wanted a better price why would she take the property off the market and put it back even though she had accepted and several weeks after it was taken off. wouldnt she just leave it on to get the best exposure.

is the previious buyer still interested or has he disappeared all together, but they are telling me that he is still in the picture so i think im bidding against someone.

Why would they tell me i need to increase by £3k if they work for the vendor and not me.

my wife and i decided that £170k was our max, so we dont want to go any more, but we think £170K is a fair price.

They had clearly overvalued it as it started on the market at £205k and still isnt sold at OIEO £180k.

confused & still fuming, a little. need some advice on what my next move should be


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## jamest (Apr 8, 2008)

Virtually all estate agents work on a commission basis, so it's in their best interest to get as much money out of you as possible.

Many people think their house is worth more than it actually is valued at by other people (and this is the key, not what it should be worth but what people are willing to pay).

As for taking the property off the market a lot of estate agents do this on Rightmove so the properties appear higher up in some listings on the site (recent properties etc). Rightmove started punishing estate agents that did this but this estate agent will use the argument above that the vendor wanted it relisted.


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

I think that you should drop a letter through the door of the house and explain your position to the owner. 

I also think you should tell the EA that £170K is your offer at this point and if you don't hear from them within a fortnight, you will be withdrawing you affer an looking elsewhere. 

When we were buying, nothing got the EA, Solicitors, Sellers moving like a threat of withdrawl from the sale. If they have another seller, they say 'OK see you later'. You then know your position and can go in again if you have to with the £3K. If they don't have another buyer, they all of a sudden start treating you like royalty.

It is hard to see how £3K would make a difference to them (obviously you and the seller are more interested) unless there is a commision level involved. Call me a sceptic.

Don't be all nice and british with them. Be firm, fair and direct. And if the EA is being a ****, be a **** back. You don't have to worry about upsetting them.


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

thing is im trying to establish if the other 'buyer' is tsill in the picture or he has moved on?

if hes still in the picture then im not interested as i dont want to start a bidding war, but if hes moved on then im interested as im in a strong position.

what to do......

....wheres cueball when you need him!

Gruffs, i replied before reading your post, yep, ill just say iof theres someone else good luck to them and i dont think its fair that i pinch their house since they have accepted the other parties offer.

that should prompt a ok fair enough or a few days later getting a phonecall to say the other buyer has dropped out.


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

jamest said:


> Virtually all estate agents work on a commission basis, so it's in their best interest to get as much money out of you as possible.


Yup - money grabbing B.....

Anyway - also to add that once they sell a house in a street for 'A' price figure it will affect any others they have in the street for sale.

I actually hate estate agents with a passion - Twice in my life they have caused problems selling a house and effing up purchases for me. Once loosing me 20k and another loosing me 50k because they knee jerked on house prices and sold a similar house in a street therefore devaluing mine overnight.


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

I would guess the offer was £175-£180k there fore 3K on top of that not your £170 offer.

Id ask them for a clear offer price from the third party that has been accepted. If you cant even get that how can you work out what extra they want. 

To be honest your £170k is a final figure so not much point relooking at the house if your not looking to increase the price.

Glad we didnt deal with estate agents.....

Cheers

PaulN


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

Paul, the girl said we'd need to offer another £3k, i did reisterate on the phone so were looking at £173k, which she didnt deny.

I want to look at the house again, look at the finer details etc.

have a look in the loft this time and last time it was dark so do a daytime viewing too.

Update: Ive had a missed call from the EA and they have left a voicemail asking me to call back.

I think i'll keep them holding on a bit till i have a strategy thought out.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

They are a pain in the backside...

I think in this situation, all you can do is stick to your guns...forget about everyone else in the "picture"...

A letter through the door is a good idea... or maybe post it, incase the seller has moved on and mail is being redirected...

Not sure about your financial position...and if your maximum is a self imposed one, or it really is the max... but as someone once said to me:

If you really want the house, what difference does a couple of grand over the lifetime of staying there matter....

So the question is.... what is the house/street/life worth to you and the mrs.... then offer that amount... if it's not meant to be, then you have done your best, and you have to try and move on....

I hate estate agents with a passion as well..... :devil:

:thumb:


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> Not sure about your financial position...and if your maximum is a self imposed one, or it really is the max... but as someone once said to me:
> 
> If you really want the house, what difference does a couple of grand over the lifetime of staying there matter....
> 
> :thumb:


someone said the exact same thing to me last night, another £3k is the cost of a family holiday.

i still havent returned the call, let them stew a bit.

the more and more i think about it, im convinced that there isnt another purchaser, it doesnt make sense.

if this is the case im hoping they tell me otherwise they will have lost another potential buyer.

I hate EA's with a passion too :devil:


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

Estoril-5 said:


> someone said the exact same thing to me last night, another £3k is the cost of a family holiday.
> 
> i still havent returned the call, let them stew a bit.
> 
> ...


Now steady on, don't cut off your nose to spite your face. The house is the goal, not to deny the EA any of your money. One of them will get it sooner or later.

The EA is supposed to be selling the house, not driving up their commision. Contact the seller directly by letter and you may find that they are much easier to deal with and start instructing the EA better. You are not under any obligation to use the EA. The seller pays them iirc.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Estoril-5 said:


> someone said the exact same thing to me last night, another £3k is the cost of a family holiday.
> 
> i still havent returned the call, let them stew a bit.
> 
> ...


Yeah, as above.... the goal is the house (if you really love it), so you have to put up with these kind of people for the greater good...

If they are as bad as you say they are, get a letter to the home owner, just a couple of lines saying you are in a good position, youc an move quick etc (i.e sell yourself to them), say you are having a few issues with the EA, so prefer if the owner can call you...

:thumb:


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

Thanks Gruffs, i was losing the end point as im hacked off with the EA's at the moment.

Yes, the EA does work for the vendor and not me as one of the EAs clearly pointed out I have no obligation to use them.

I think ill take another viewing, we had planned to on Saturday but the guy showing us around was a ****.

So i still want another viewing, if i am going to make another offer even if it is the same £170k then ill do it writing and make sure the vendor gets it aswell.


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

Thanks Cuey, yeah I think a letter saying I would like to talk face to face with the vendor may uncover some untruths.

BTW this is the second EA the property has been with as she didnt get on with the first lot.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Good luck buddy... go and get that house..

grrrrrrrrrrr..... :lol:

:thumb:


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

on the flip side the first house i ever bought was a doddle!

that was over 5 years ago now though.

i dont think the vendor is the villian, just the EAs making up BS as scare tactics.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Estoril-5 said:


> confused & still fuming, a little. need some advice on what my next move should be


The best advice i can give is start looking for houses in Scotland, this sort of thing does not happen as a verbal agreement/contract is as good as a written one.....no gazumping or accepting one offer....then accepting another higher one :wave:

In all seriousness; if the wife was really gutted when you thought it was lost look at your finances and decide if you can go a little more to secure it....and tell the EA you're absolutely 100% at your limit (whether it's true or not)


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

although i could probably just about stretch to £173k i dont think its worth that much.

I reckon the other guy offered £172,500 and thats why they are telling me i need to bid £173 k to trump that offer and put me back in the race, however i think the other guy is out of the picture completely.

do i call their bluff??


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Estoril-5 said:


> although i could probably just about stretch to £173k i dont think its worth that much.
> 
> I reckon the other guy offered £172,500 and thats why they are telling me i need to bid £173 k to trump that offer and put me back in the race, however i think the other guy is out of the picture completely.
> 
> do i call their bluff??


Maybe the offer was £171,500....£500 would not make much difference to them....but who knows, you'll never know. Speak with the the vendor if possible to suss out the situation.

£3k is only about 1.5%....under £20 a month over 25years.....if the house is right and it saves you going through the EA process on another few properties before you find a replacement it may be worth it.....

If you genuinely don't think it's worth it call them and say you're not interested in offering anymore; if it's not accepted consider your interest withdrawn.


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## tonz (Sep 21, 2008)

Estoril-5 said:


> although i could probably just about stretch to £173k i dont think its worth that much.
> 
> I reckon the other guy offered £172,500 and thats why they are telling me i need to bid £173 k to trump that offer and put me back in the race, however i think the other guy is out of the picture completely.
> 
> do i call their bluff??


I would personally hold back for a bit , just to see what happens next . These estate agents are devious buggers and use any tricks of the trade to up the price of anything . Also if you think it's not worth 173k, why are you considering paying it ?


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

well the EAs have called me and left a message at 10am, but i havent returned their call.

Ill call this afternoon.

i think its worth £170k BUT its a home and not an investment so sometimes you have to pay more if its what you want.


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## crazysnakeman (Oct 12, 2011)

the house we bought 3 years ago started up at £320k, it had been up for ages then they dropped to 280, still above our budget as we had a top end of £250. It's near where my sister lives so we knew the road well and drove past it several times goign to/from my sister. Eventually we booked a viewing and offered 240, the estate agent was totally pissed off with the vendor, she had a price in her head and just wouldn't budge on it.
I made it clear that £250 was our absolute max as with stamp duty it would jump a lot above £250. In the end he talked her around, she was expecting 2007 prices in 2009. I still think we paid to much for it, epecially as we had to replace the boiler and windows within the first 6 months, but the point that others have made is that if you can afford it, and it's the one you and (more importantly!) your missus wants then it's worth stretching. As silly as it sounds, this is a good time to buy, but make sure you can afford it. Take in to account your plans for the next couple of years, we moved in and a week later found out that my wife was preggers again, we had planned for another but not that quickly! It does make things a bit tighter!

It does sound like they are scrwing around though so hang in there. At the end of the day delaying a bit doesn't hurt you as much as it hurts them.


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## bmwman (Jun 11, 2008)

Right I was an estate agent for 7 years so I should be able to help. First an foremost the Estate Agents you are dealing with seem like they can not suitably guide the vendor. I'd enquire whether it was on the market on a sole agency agreement. If not then another agent must have it on their books. (more than likely in my opinion) if not on rightmove it will be on findaproperty. this way you may get a better servcie from another agent. Alternatively put your offer to the agent in writing, both via email and traditional letter. They will freak out as they will feel obligated to put your offer forward, they may be looking for a little backhander/brown envelope and the letter will spook them. If this doesnt work suggest entering closed bids. This is when you make one final offer on a specific date or time. All interested parties must do the same and the highest bidder wins. Talk to the manager, quote ombudsman etc if you really want to get in their faces but dont until you have to as this may put them off you completley. Also the vendor is probably a waster, just putting their property on the market to see what its worth kind of thing. Its sounds like it been on for a while and realistically its unlikely they will agree to sell now, particularly over the xmas new year period.

PS: Before you guys grill me, im no longer an estate agent and was never too good at it because i couldnt lie to save my life. Majority of lies are blatant little prokies that would make anyone cringe.


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## Mr_Mephistophel (Feb 28, 2011)

I nearly lost my potential house due to an idiot doing the valuation.
The asking price was 70K and I offered the full amount.
The agent doing the valuation must have been about 20 stone and his report had the following:

Stairs creak when stamped on with a heavy step - staircase needs replacing
Doors not wide enough to allow access - all doors need replacing
Interior decoration needs redoing.

On the basis of this he tried to claim the house was only worth 60K so the mortgage company would only lend that and the seller pulled out.

I had to pay for an independant valuation and sweet talk the mortgate company who eventually upped the offer.

When I spoke with the valuer his explanation was "I like to knock everything down by 8-10%, its my trademark."


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

Justr called the EA and she said there seems to be some confusion, i did tell her i was not confused and was told two different things by two different people in the office.

Well the buyer who is still interested has an issue with his house and cannot sell until some issues are sorted, also in the last few weeks he has not done what would be expected from a potential buyer, so, the EA has advised the vendor to re-market the property, hence why they called me last week, and have offered me first refusal.

she also said that the vendor has found somewhere else and is nearly completed on that, i believe that is seperate to this house she is selling i.e. it is not chained, so her motive is to sell quickly.

she also said that the vendor would take a hit on the property to get it sold asap. she said if we would have offered a little more like £171k she would have accepted our offer.

i did mention that i have no chain, have a mortgage in principal and have my solicitor on standby. i made it clear and said that i would not be entering any bidding wars either. she said the main thing the vendor wants is a hassle free speedy sale.

i have a viewing booked on Friday at 10.30am. i mentioned that IF i do put an offer in it will be made in writing and sent to the EAs and the vendor, and if the offer is accepted the property should be withdrawn from the market and no further viewings or offers should be entertained.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

fingers crossed!

:thumb:


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

What ^^ he said

:thumb:


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

Im sticking to my guns. £170k.

Take it or leave it.


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## jamest (Apr 8, 2008)

So you offered 170k, told to add another 3k, now they say you only needed to offer an extra 1k?

Who would stop a sale of their house which they want to go through ASAP reject an offer 1k off what they wanted.

Still sounds very odd and they are just trying to capitalise by getting as much as possible from you but you haven't fallen in to their trap.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Estoril-5 said:


> Im sticking to my guns. £170k.
> 
> Take it or leave it.


:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho






:lol::lol::lol::lol:

:thumb:


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

i think they had two offers, my offer of £170k and another offer.

the vendor chose the other offer from a guy who was in a chain BUT my understanding is that if our offer was above £170k i.e. £171k she would have chosen me who is chain free.

Now that guy is out of the picture, she only has me as a potential purchaser, so i have the upper hand.

£170k will be my best and final offer. take it or leave it.

i know she would have accepted £171k when there were two offers on the table.

Its upto her to accept £170k as the only offer now.


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## bmwman (Jun 11, 2008)

Estoril, just my two bob again. If you have a mortgage agreed in principle document send that to them via email. This should prove you'r a serious buyer. Also enquire whether they have a reccommended solicitor etc. This may allow them the opportunity to obtain a referal fee (bit of cash) but dont seem to keen about it partiucularly if you want to go with your own solicitors. The extra cash the vendor wants i.e. £1k is probably to cover her solicitors costs etc. Agents usually charge areound 1%-2% of the final sale fee.


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## crazysnakeman (Oct 12, 2011)

sounds like you are doing the right thing, you are all set to go, if she really wants a quick sale she'll take your offer.

fingers crossed for you!


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Just to add what has already been covered in depth. Yes, EA's can be absolutely appaling in their approach to business but so to can vendors, changing mind depending on what way the wind blows, unreliable and sometimes downright deceitful. Please don't take it as gospel that this is going to be a chain free property unless you have a wealth of proof to back that claim up, vendors will stoop to levels of half truths to get the offer they want. If you haven't already see if Zoopla are also advertising the property, that shows more than others in respect of how long the property has been on the market, a timeline of reductions also.

It's a very emotional process and easier said than done but do try and keep a cool head when everyone else seems to be losing theirs. I'm a firm believer that if this house is meant for you then you will get it, if it falls through dust yourself down and more often than not if you are patient something better will come along.....and the last word, it is a buyers market and will be for some considerable time.
Good luck:thumb:


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

Mr_Mephistophel said:


> When I spoke with the valuer his explanation was "I like to knock everything down by 8-10%, its my trademark."


:doublesho:doublesho

"Thanks, I'll take your valuation as being only 90-92% accurate then."

Or fecking useless.

What a pillock.


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

i'll report after i have viewed again on friday, ill be taking my step ladder and torch and having a proper nosey!

ive primed the broker and told him ill see him that same afternoon.


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## Goldbug (Sep 23, 2011)

Estoril-5 said:


> As you know, or may not, the mrs and I are looking for a house. We live in birmingham and are looking at specific areas, Hall Green & Moseley.
> 
> We saw a house that we liked but was too much out of price range, we saw it on rightmove.
> 
> ...


Check it isn't a repossession. Look through the windows to see if there are 'do not use' tapes across the gas fire etc..

They leave repos on sale even though someone is actually trying to exchange contracts on it. They will still show buyers round if they insist and the bank won't bat an eyelid if the original buyer gets gazzumped. The notice saying anyone wishing to offer more than the offered price is the agent trying to get a gazzumper interested. Offer less than the advertised price - you never know, the original buyer might get fed up and pull out leaving you as the best offer around. Don't whatever you do be tempted to gazzump, you only encourage the [email protected]*s. :doublesho


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

its not a repo, someones still living in there (at the moment).

the last house i bought was a repo!


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## Goldbug (Sep 23, 2011)

Estoril-5 said:


> its not a repo, someones still living in there (at the moment).
> 
> the last house i bought was a repo!


Any Land Registry details?


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

nope not yet, the woman works in london i believe and has bought else where and is nearly completed.

This house is not chained.


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## Goldbug (Sep 23, 2011)

Probably kept it for someone they know?


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

its definately not a repo.

I dont think they have kept it for someone else otherwise why would they give me first refusal?


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

*Quick Question chaps:*

What is included when you buy a house? I thought it would be the house itself, anything thats fixed down and carpets etc?

But apparently you have to specify each and every thing??

Is that true? what should i be asking for as standard or the norm? dont want to come to moving day and find that they have taken the front door and kitchen sink or worse still the toilet!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

if you want the "soft furnishings" like carpets, light shades, curtains etc then yes you should specify them...

I have never mentioned kitchens, doors, toilets etc, as these are part of any normal house.... BUT..lf they are unique, or expensive then maybe I would, just to be clear...

anything that helps the sale being clean and crystal clear is worthwhile... no matter how 'daft' it seems at the time..

I have bought a flat where the buggers took the light bulbs with them! :lol:

:thumb:


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

A good question and indeed a tricky one, I suggest another visit with the vendor present, ask what fittings are to be included in the price. Carpets, cabinets, light fittings are often assumed to be included only for the vendor to strip the place bare. Once an offer has been made and accepted the solicitors will draw up a comprehensive list of what the vendor is including and that as far as I know is part of a contract that shouldn't be breached. If you take fancy to things like curtains, blinds, mirrors etc that aren't included it's always worth asking the vendor if they would like to sell them to you outside the contracted sale price.


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## peanut1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Ill just stick my 2p in! I was an EA for 12 years and worked for an extremely reputable company in Kent. It is right, their are some real dodgy agents out there who have no idea what is right and what is wrong and dont care who they upset on the way! one thing the agent does have to do by law is to put every single offer that comes in to the vendor so by you writing i cant see this will effect anything at all, unless they havent done it and you can request under data protection act to see all information that relates to you in any way. i do agree with a previous comment that the majority of the time its the vendors who are a right royal pain in the **** and can make things really hard for the EA, i know, i had it loads!!!!!! If anyone has ever asked me for help with moving etc i have always advised them not to get the EAs back up and be nice, however much it hurts, as you need them on your side to help you get the property and dont forget, once its completed, its all yours and you have no further relationship with the EA. It has been commented that as a buyer you have no loyalty or tie with the EA but if the vendor has signed any kind of agreement then they do. Ive seen sales fall apart because a buyer thinks their clever and believes the agenst thick and so starts a private deal. The agent will find out anyway and will contact the vendor and basically tell them they will see them in court, and they will win the case period, and thus will scare the vendor and as mentioned, ive seen vendors freak out and panic and just pull out and take the house off the market. Its difficult to give you perfect advise as we dont know the agent etc but i wish you the best of luck and please do box clever!!!


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

peanut1 said:


> Ill just stick my 2p in! I was an EA for 12 years and worked for an extremely reputable company in Kent. It is right, their are some real dodgy agents out there who have no idea what is right and what is wrong and dont care who they upset on the way! one thing the agent does have to do by law is to put every single offer that comes in to the vendor so by you writing i cant see this will effect anything at all, unless they havent done it and you can request under data protection act to see all information that relates to you in any way. i do agree with a previous comment that the majority of the time its the vendors who are a right royal pain in the **** and can make things really hard for the EA, i know, i had it loads!!!!!! If anyone has ever asked me for help with moving etc i have always advised them not to get the EAs back up and be nice, however much it hurts, as you need them on your side to help you get the property and dont forget, once its completed, its all yours and you have no further relationship with the EA. It has been commented that as a buyer you have no loyalty or tie with the EA but if the vendor has signed any kind of agreement then they do. Ive seen sales fall apart because a buyer thinks their clever and believes the agenst thick and so starts a private deal. The agent will find out anyway and will contact the vendor and basically tell them they will see them in court, and they will win the case period, and thus will scare the vendor and as mentioned, ive seen vendors freak out and panic and just pull out and take the house off the market. Its difficult to give you perfect advise as we dont know the agent etc but i wish you the best of luck and please do box clever!!!


Please tell me this reputable Kent Estate Agency wasn't Ward and Partners!


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

The Cueball said:


> if you want the "soft furnishings" like carpets, light shades, curtains etc then yes you should specify them...
> 
> I have never mentioned kitchens, doors, toilets etc, as these are part of any normal house.... BUT..lf they are unique, or expensive then maybe I would, just to be clear...
> 
> ...


there are a few things like the dishwasher which isnt integrated as such but has a cover door matching the rest of the kitchen cabinets, finding one of those would be a nightmare (as its not an additional door on top of the dishwasher).

i want the whole kitchen, so that be specified as, the whole kitchen or kitchen fixtures and fittings or do i have to set out hob, cooker, extractor etc?



S63 said:


> A good question and indeed a tricky one, I suggest another visit with the vendor present, ask what fittings are to be included in the price. Carpets, cabinets, light fittings are often assumed to be included only for the vendor to strip the place bare. Once an offer has been made and accepted the solicitors will draw up a comprehensive list of what the vendor is including and that as far as I know is part of a contract that shouldn't be breached. If you take fancy to things like curtains, blinds, mirrors etc that aren't included it's always worth asking the vendor if they would like to sell them to you outside the contracted sale price.


For some reason the vendor isnt about much, all viewings are done by the EA apart from the very first when the vendor showed us around.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Estoril-5 said:


> *Quick Question chaps:*
> 
> What is included when you buy a house? I thought it would be the house itself, anything thats fixed down and carpets etc?
> 
> ...


'Fixtures and fittings' are often in the terms, and include anything that can't be picked up/ is screwed down. You can always add 'for the avoidance of doubt x, y and z will be included as part of the sale'.. One thing I've seen before is things like curtains, blinds and light fixings being included in the sale.......but when the buyer gets the keys the vendor has changed all the curtains and light fittings to different/cheaper/older ones!

Although www.ourproperty.co.uk include a number of other things: -



Ourproperty said:


> What is a fixture/fitting?
> 
> There are no set definitions for what constitutes a fixture or a fitting, but generally a fixture is understood to be any item that is bolted to the floor or walls, and a fitting to be any item that is free standing or hung by a nail or hook. Below is a list of items that will usually fall under each category.
> 
> ...


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

And don't forget any bits n pieces outside, shed, greenhouse, aerials, sat dish etc.:thumb:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

S63 said:


> And don't forget any bits n pieces outside, shed, greenhouse, aerials, sat dish etc.:thumb:


and the wife, if she is a bit of a looker... :tumbleweed:

well, it's worth a try! :lol:

:thumb:


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

Fixtures and fittings........ What a crap statement lol

Most people would agree to leave carpets and curtain and light shades for an extra few hundred quid all in. Dishwasher would be worth offering to buy too they probably dont want it.

Cooker should be incuded and like otheres said if its worth having to you get it itemised.

Id suggest going around taking photos of the things you want or think should be included just in case.


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## Lump (Nov 6, 2008)

If you want me to have a look at the background of the house and give you some facts and figures drop me a pm with the details. Id be happy to help. 

And its also worth remembering that the vendor makes all the decisions not the estate agent.


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## Mr_Mephistophel (Feb 28, 2011)

I can never understand fitted carpets not being included, for ****s sake fitted means just that....FITTED TO THAT ROOM.

Our previous owner was a right toerag. The downstairs carpet was manky but he pulled it back at the corner to show us the lovely parquet flooring underneath ("we had to carpet down to stop the kids sliding")

6 months later when I pulled the carpet up the flooring consisted of a few wooden tiles in that corner only and the whole rest of the floor being mdf sheets.

We finally got to move in at 6.30pm on December 22nd.....and the ****er had taken every light fixture, every socket and every light switch.
Just left live bare wires sticking out of the wall.

Oh and of course a garage and a loft completely stuffed full of crap.

14 years later if I could track them down I would string them up, especially as they are still applying for credit at my address which has led to some interesting conversations with baliffs and debt collectors.


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

if i took a camera with me to the viewing would it be seen as rude or ok???

personally i would expect carpets, lights, switches etc included as well as hob, cooker etc. 

dishwasher, washing machine i guess are subject to negotiation.


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## peanut1 (Dec 29, 2009)

S63 said:


> Please tell me this reputable Kent Estate Agency wasn't Ward and Partners!


HAHA!!! couldnt possibly comment!!! why do you ask??


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

Mr_Mephistophel said:


> I can never understand fitted carpets not being included, for ****s sake fitted means just that....FITTED TO THAT ROOM.
> 
> Our previous owner was a right toerag. The downstairs carpet was manky but he pulled it back at the corner to show us the lovely parquet flooring underneath ("we had to carpet down to stop the kids sliding")
> 
> ...


To take the light fixture away i would see as a breach of contract and possibly a H&S issue. Saying that though 14 years ago life was very different...

OP Take the camera. tell them your working out a new colour scheme!


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

peanut1 said:


> HAHA!!! couldnt possibly comment!!! why do you ask??


I recently bought my new home in Whitstable through Ward, their service was appaling, thought it maybe just a one off but since living here it seems that everyone that has dealt with them has nothing but negative tales to tell. They seem totally dis- interested in the sale and only interested in selling the bolt ons like survey, solicitors etc. My agent in London, a small independent was brilliant and very patient with them but said he could not understand how they do business in such a cavalier fashion.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Estoril-5 said:


> if i took a camera with me to the viewing would it be seen as rude or ok???
> 
> personally i would expect carpets, lights, switches etc included as well as hob, cooker etc.
> 
> dishwasher, washing machine i guess are subject to negotiation.


You have stated that the vendor is normally out during your viewings,maybe it because they are at work or it is on the instruction of the EA, my agent in London preferred viewings of my property with me out of the way, buyers are often more comfortable in this situation, can speak freely without fear of insulting the vendor.

Unless you have built up a good relationship with your agent and trust him/her to convey all your questions to the vendor and get back honest and concise replies, if it were me I would make a serious effort to have a viewing with just the vendor present. Agents don't like this as has already been stated and I do agree that it is normally better to keep it impersonal dealing with only the agent, however, if you have the slightest doubt about anything it is vital to get it sorted before signing any purchase contract.


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## peanut1 (Dec 29, 2009)

I hear what your saying and it does massively depend on who the manager is and the overall team. I left nearly 4 years ago and even at that point we were being targeted for how many different add ons we could get and felt it was losing its core focus. Im in the process of launching my own lettings business and having been in good and bad companies i have a feeling i know what is needed but will still send out questionnaires to make sure my clients are happy


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

peanut1 said:


> I hear what your saying and it does massively depend on who the manager is and the overall team. I left nearly 4 years ago and even at that point we were being targeted for how many different add ons we could get and felt it was losing its core focus. Im in the process of launching my own lettings business and having been in good and bad companies i have a feeling i know what is needed but will still send out questionnaires to make sure my clients are happy


Sounds like it was Wards then! No need to implicate yourself with an answer
Agree with what you say about managers but the reputation of Wards seems consistent across many parts of Kent. Anyway if you were with them you can take all their negatives and turn them into your own positives, good luck with your new venture.


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## Huw (Feb 16, 2007)

Estoril-5 said:


> if i took a camera with me to the viewing would it be seen as rude or ok???
> 
> personally i would expect carpets, lights, switches etc included as well as hob, cooker etc.
> 
> dishwasher, washing machine i guess are subject to negotiation.


If the hob & cooker are integrated then should be considered as a fixture & fitting, if they are free standing then do not assume they will be left, in fact, do not assume anything will be left. Be specific with anything you want left, make it a condition of your offer. If your offer is accepted, make sure you get everything confirmed in writing and sent to your solicitor in the sales memorandum.

From what I have read, you are thinking the vendor needs a quick sale due to her nearly completing on her sale. If she is non-dependent on selling to purchase, she maybe in a position to hold out for what she considers to be the "right price". Some vendors get funny when they feel they are being knocked down to far on price and will try to re-coup some money by trying to sell some of the fixtures and fittings to you.

I once had a vendor ask for an extra £500 for the fitted carpets, the buyer could only offer £250, he asked if they wanted the upstairs or downstairs for that. He took the upstairs carpets, and he was buying a bungalow. That's how silly things can get.

18 years as an EA taught me one thing, it was any easy job, it was just the people involved that screwed things up, sometimes the EA, sometimes the vendor, sometimes the buyer. Sometimes all three.

As others have said, don't loose sight of the end result.


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## robbyp (Dec 15, 2011)

this is usefull because i too have viewed a few houses over the last few months

i used this advice which i found on this forum:
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=2440516#post2440516


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

just had this from the conveyancing solicitor, does this sound about right?

Legal Costs £500.00 [no vat]
Registration fee £200.00 ( if the price is over £200,000.00 than it will jump to £280.)
Search fees £278
HM Revenie Stamp Duty Return £50.00
Final searches £10.00
Bank charges for Electronic Transfer £20.00

Stamp duty if applicable.

As im just buying and no selling i thought it would be absolute max £1k??


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## peanut1 (Dec 29, 2009)

Seems in line but would defo advise you to find a solicitor that works on no sale no fee basis


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## WP-UK (Apr 24, 2011)

peanut1 said:


> Seems in line but would defo advise you to find a solicitor that works on no sale no fee basis


+1 I would agree with that statement completely!


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