# Gtech EXO



## chillly

Guys This has been out a while now and for those that have used it what are you views please?? And is it worth the extra over C1 ??


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## domino

don't waste your money - much cheaper paste waxes will fail just as quickly


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## s.bailey

Oh here we go, yeah don't bother buying EXO, after all if you're going to compound polish your paint every day as well then it'll only last as long as any normal snot!! :wall:


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## CraigQQ

If looked after properly its brilliant


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## Guest

In terms of better it depends on what you want from it?

I have applied EXO twice now and the first time i just used eraser and guessed the panel temps, this resulted in a fail after 2 weeks due to my user error.

So i got panel wipe and a digi infra-red thermometer and applied EXO as instructed.
I have found that the product is behaving like it should and after a 100 mile drive down to Weymouth down motorways and a/b roads in the rain my car was surprisingly clean.

Yes it is expensive and yes as domino pointed out you could apply a wax or cheaper product over the top, but at that point you will be losing the qualitys of C1.

A cheaper option would be to buy C1.5 and use that as a top up if you want to add something every month or so and this will bond with C1 as will EXO.

So with EXO it can be a pita to apply and if you get it wrong then its prep time that you have to do again.

As for the expense it works out about £15-25 per application, so its a big lay out to start with, but if you have the cash spare and the facility's available to apply it as instructed then i think it is a excellent product.

I found that my paint was slightly darkened, but the flake pop and gloss was just amazing.

a few pic of the car after 3 weeks of exo and not been washed for 6 days and 500 miles.


















like i said great product, but if you cant get the application right then use C1.5 .... it's like EXO's smaller brother!:thumb:


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## great gonzo

Is that mr Skittles I can see?


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## DNZ 21

I have had EXO on one of my cars now for close to 2 months and its working just as good now as the day I applied it


























Beading isnt too bad either

















Its even working very well on the windows

Its so easy to apply and a quick wash gets it looking 100% again. Yes it might not be the cheapest for some but if you have the money why not splash out on some. I hardly used anything out of the can putting 2 coats on my car so you can easily do a handful of cars with 1 can

I was impressed with it when I first put it on but was waiting on the durability test and like I say close to 2 months so far and its still as good as day 1 :thumb:


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## amiller

Just got a can chilly- will let you know my thoughts soon :thumb:


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## Spoony

Where'd you get that Andrew?


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## amiller

Spoony said:


> Where'd you get that Andrew?


Ultimate Finish in the end. 

Free delivery too. :thumb:


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## Alan W

amiller said:


> Just got a can chilly- will let you know my thoughts soon :thumb:


The good weather has just broken up here so don't hold your breath chillly, you could be waiting a while! :lol:

Alan W


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## quattrogmbh

I got a couple of panels done yesterday. panels were at 22C and wiped down with Octoral silicon remover..

but then it rained today so will be interesting to see if that has any impact.

gloss is very good, as is beading.


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## E38_ross

domino said:


> don't waste your money - much cheaper paste waxes will fail just as quickly


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

don't tell me you judge protection coatings purely by how they bead water? :lol:

also - i don't know about you, but i clean my car with a pH neutral shampoo, not a wheel cleaner. secondly, if you knew ANYTHING about EXO you'd know it was made of 2 parts, organic and inorganic. the organic provides the beading and isn't all that chemical resistant compared to things like C1, the inorganic provides the actual surface functionality (slickness, easy clean, extra UV block) and lasts longer than the beading will.

i'll get off my high horse now 

edit - and waxes won't bead/sheet as quick as waxes tend to have a water contact angle approx 100degrees, EXO is 110.


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## cheffi

i'm going to work with it in 2 weeks on several cars... 
any good ideas how to chemically strip off zaino z2 (or does it even matter if its on?)


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## E38_ross

cheffi said:


> i'm going to work with it in 2 weeks on several cars...
> any good ideas how to chemically strip off zaino z2 (or does it even matter if its on?)


will certainly need stripping but i'm guessing you'll be polishing anyway so that will soon remove it. make sure you use panel wipe to prep the surface and not just IPA. IPA isn't good enough for this coating.


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## chillly

Thanks guys :thumb:


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## EliteCarCare

I can only Echo the above, the prep is very important to get the best from EXO, a strong IPA solution or Panel Wipe is the way to go.

Sheeting is excellent, here's a small vid we took from the bootlid of Jamie's Honda:





 :thumb:

Alex


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## Goodfella36

My take on EXO after some heavy testing its the worlds most expensive quick detailer if you get the application right then it will last well and contact angle is very good it sheets water well almost to quick infact as can leave micro droplets behind.

Also the aftercare is important no strong tfrs nice mild shampoo like born to be mild is good.



















Would i buy it yes but it does need to be cheaper in my eyes and the application is very important to get the very best from it.


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## wanna veccy

E38_ross said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> don't tell me you judge protection coatings purely by how they bead water? :lol:
> 
> also - i don't know about you, but i clean my car with a pH neutral shampoo, not a wheel cleaner. secondly, if you knew ANYTHING about EXO you'd know it was made of 2 parts, organic and inorganic. the organic provides the beading and isn't all that chemical resistant compared to things like C1, the inorganic provides the actual surface functionality (slickness, easy clean, extra UV block) and lasts longer than the beading will.
> 
> i'll get off my high horse now
> 
> edit - and waxes won't bead/sheet as quick as waxes tend to have a water contact angle approx 100degrees, EXO is 110.


well lets hope its "easy clean" trait works cause if it doesn't and you need to use any kind of chemical on it, i have a feeling you are going to be very disapointed in your newly found sun block. that contact angle really doesn't stand up for much when it is removed by a wheel cleaner,one that only hinders the performance of fk1000p, not completely removes it.


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## Alan W

wanna veccy said:


> well lets hope its "easy clean" trait works cause if it doesn't and you need to use any kind of chemical on it, i have a feeling you are going to be very disapointed in your newly found sun block. that contact angle really doesn't stand up for much when it is removed by a wheel cleaner,one that only hinders the performance of fk1000p, not completely removes it.


Most all products have their strengths and weaknesses/limitations. 

You should choose a product to suit your priorities for it and, knowing the above, treat it accordingly. :thumb:

If Exo doesn't suit your priorites for an LSP then stop having a dig at it and buy something else! 

Alan W


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## E38_ross

wanna veccy said:


> well lets hope its "easy clean" trait works cause if it doesn't and you need to use any kind of chemical on it, i have a feeling you are going to be very disapointed in your newly found sun block. that contact angle really doesn't stand up for much when it is removed by a wheel cleaner,one that only hinders the performance of fk1000p, not completely removes it.


 Well if it's better than C1 as has been said for easy cleaning then it will **** all over fk1000p. Having had much experience of both, there isn't even a comparison.


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## wanna veccy

Alan W said:


> Most all products have their strengths and weaknesses/limitations.
> 
> You should choose a product to suit your priorities for it and, knowing the above, treat it accordingly. :thumb:
> 
> If Exo doesn't suit your priorites for an LSP then stop having a dig at it and buy something else!
> 
> Alan W


well its hard not to have a dig about something that doesn't live up to all the hype its getting. i would like to point out that i'm not the one that said EXO can be applied to your wheels the manufacturer did, and if they haven't tested it against wheel cleaners then that is not my problem. Granted it may help with washing so wheel cleaners will never be called for, i just feel it is unfair for ppl to spend their hard earned on something that doesn't perform as well as all the hype suggests,a comment which prob rings true for most.That is not a dig at gtechniq's range there has been a couple of products from a few manufacturers that didn't do what they promised.

Ross i never compared fk1000p and EXO's ability regarding how easy they are to clean, i compared there ability to withstand chemicals,to which i have seen fk1000p stand up well to smart wheels where as EXO hasn't, and if anyone has found out differently than i have then post the vid to prove it.if i feel that what i have seen to be a one off then fine i will post up comments to what i have seen and maybe they will be in EXO's favour,or maybe they wont. if it turns out that EXO really is that good then i wont mind having it on my car.:thumb:


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## DNZ 21

A wheel that's been covered with EXO, FK1000p or similar shouldn't really need any chemicals to clean them anyway. Shampoo and water should be enough to clean them


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## -Raven-

I want some purely for ease of use, but seems the durability is questionable. Seems like an extreme price for something that seems to be more like a siloseal / reload topper, than a durable quartz / ceramic coating. I don't think I can spend this much on a topper, when the C1+ kit is less than 1/2. I'll be keeping a close eye on this, very interested.


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## wanna veccy

DNZ 21 said:


> A wheel that's been covered with EXO, FK1000p or similar shouldn't really need any chemicals to clean them anyway. Shampoo and water should be enough to clean them


yeah, i completely agree, and what i'm saying is that fk1000p only costs £20 and is still working after it has been hit with a wheel cleaner (not fabulously but still there), and durability is good for around 5 months only using shampoo. Now a sealant that claims 2 years durability is completely removed with the same wheel cleaner, knowing this makes me ask myself how well is EXO going to last whilst using just a shampoo to clean it? I also know that Rob has said it will last 2 years if cared for by (presumably) using Gwash,which i can only see happening if Gwash is topping up EXO every time you use it.:thumb:


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## wbessada

-Raven- said:


> I want some purely for ease of use, but seems the durability is questionable. Seems like an extreme price for something that seems to be more like a siloseal / reload topper, than a durable quartz / ceramic coating. I don't think I can spend this much on a topper, when the C1+ kit is less than 1/2. I'll be keeping a close eye on this, very interested.


Surely if a can of EXO can do 2 coats on 5 or 6 cars for £125 then that makes it less than half the cost of C1+ per car? Also probably a good indicator of the type of product and Rob has himself said on a number of occasions that EXO isn't as scratch resistant as C1+


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## mystery1

wanna veccy said:


> yeah, i completely agree, and what i'm saying is that fk1000p only costs £20 and is still working after it has been hit with a wheel cleaner (not fabulously but still there), and durability is good for around 5 months only using shampoo. Now a sealant that claims 2 years durability is completely removed with the same wheel cleaner, knowing this makes me ask myself how well is EXO going to last whilst using just a shampoo to clean it? I also know that Rob has said it will last 2 years if cared for by (presumably) using Gwash,which i can only see happening if Gwash is topping up EXO every time you use it.:thumb:


It's already been said that it only hinders the beading and notthe protection self cleaning etc

Gwash doesn't top up and the point is that the coating lasts longer as it's not covered in gloss enhancers and waxes etc.


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## -Raven-

wbessada said:


> Surely if a can of EXO can do 2 coats on 5 or 6 cars for £125 then that makes it less than half the cost of C1+ per car? Also probably a good indicator of the type of product and Rob has himself said on a number of occasions that EXO isn't as scratch resistant as C1+


that depends on durability and how many cars you actually want to coat. I just hope it lasts at least 1/2 as long as they say (2 years?) but that wheel cleaner vid looks worrying.  I don't think I could offer people just EXO alone (at the moment), and I see [email protected] will only provide it to customers applied over C1+.


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## wanna veccy

mystery1 said:


> It's already been said that it only hinders the beading and notthe protection self cleaning etc
> 
> Gwash doesn't top up and the point is that the coating lasts longer as it's not covered in gloss enhancers and waxes etc.


it doesn't hinder the beading or the sheeting,it completely destroys it.No beading or sheeting means no slickness so all your left with is uv block and self cleaning properties which to be honest with you i can't really comment on, but i know that i would rather have an indication in the form of beading or sheeting that the product is still there rather than the manufacturers word for it.


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## chillly

TBH i was expecting this thread to be full of praise for EXO. Thanks for your input guys:thumb:


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## s.bailey

Sorted! NEXT!


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## wanna veccy

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: 

thats not a bad idea,only down fall would be at the car wash.:doublesho


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## s.bailey

wanna veccy said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> thats not a bad idea,only down fall would be at the car wash.:doublesho


You wouldn't need to wash it, you just pop and go!! Simples!


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## chillly

Now thats funny:lol:


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## wanna veccy

s.bailey said:


> You wouldn't need to wash it, you just pop and go!! Simples!


once you pop you just can't stop.:devil:


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## s.bailey




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## blake_jl

mystery1 said:


> It's already been said that it only hinders the beading and notthe protection self cleaning etc


I'd like evidence of that not just a "trust me even though it's looks like its gone it's really still there...I promise!"


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## E38_ross

wanna veccy said:


> yeah, i completely agree, and what i'm saying is that fk1000p only costs £20 and is still working after it has been hit with a wheel cleaner (not fabulously but still there), and durability is good for around 5 months only using shampoo. Now a sealant that claims 2 years durability is completely removed with the same wheel cleaner, knowing this makes me ask myself how well is EXO going to last whilst using just a shampoo to clean it? I also know that Rob has said it will last 2 years if cared for by (presumably) using Gwash,which i can only see happening if Gwash is topping up EXO every time you use it.:thumb:


Gwash leaves no residue, nor does it top up any protection.

Exo is meant to be even easier to clean than C1 and C5. I did a test, C5 on front wheels which take most of the brake dust etx vs colli 476 and fk1000p on each of the rear wheels. After 3 months or so I already had bonded brake dusy embedded in the wheels at the back which needed heavy cleaners to shift. 8 months on the C5 is still actually working, hasn't needed ANYTHING other than normal ph neutral shampoo and there are no caked on brake deposits.

Exo on wheels won't need smart wheels. That's the point. Trust me, if you've not tried C1 then you'd realise how absurd it is to compare to waxes. Exo may be less resistant to chemicals but I've never needed strong chemicals with a C1d car, so I'm guessing I won't with exo. In that respect, it's well worth its money to me.


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## E38_ross

blake_jl said:


> I'd like evidence of that not just a "trust me even though it's looks like its gone it's really still there...I promise!"


ask rob, he'd be happy to oblige. in fact, they used to do a coating called C0 which was actually hydrophilic (so didn't bead water at all) which still kept the surface very clean. it was largely for the marine industry.

wax guys get far too hung up about beading and are way too cynical of C1 and other similar coatings. that is, until they bother to try them with the correct prep work and application and finally see for themselves that natural waxes aren't a patch on man-made chemicals specifically designed in a lab for paint protection. since having C1 on my car, i've sold all of my waxes....was about 10 pots including zymol glasur.


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## cheffi

E38_ross said:


> will certainly need stripping but i'm guessing you'll be polishing anyway so that will soon remove it. make sure you use panel wipe to prep the surface and not just IPA. IPA isn't good enough for this coating.


I dont really want to polish it again, just did a full detail on it last week.. (planned three z2 coats but the weather was too humid and it startet pissing me off big time, that's why I want to get Exo on it...)

Is a quick ultrafina step enough to strip it?

I wipe panels with eraser, so should be fine?


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## E38_ross

cheffi said:


> I dont really want to polish it again, just did a full detail on it last week.. (planned three z2 coats but the weather was too humid and it startet pissing me off big time, that's why I want to get Exo on it...)
> 
> Is a quick ultrafina step enough to strip it?
> 
> I wipe panels with eraser, so should be fine?


use panel wipe instead of eraser. halfords do "surface cleaner" which is enough. eraser not as good from what i've heard rob say.


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## MrPARR

It seems madness to me paying such a high price for a product that requires such precise application and maintenance when there is much cheaper, and much easier to apply products that offer pretty much the same shine and far better resistance.

Maybe it's just me and I'm one of the odd ones, rather buy a bottle of optiseal and spend a extra 10 minutes every wash quickly shooting around the car and always be impressed and be over £100 up.

People always argue the reason people buy £100 waxes is the smell and ease of application, this is totally lost on sealants now, and on me. Another product I won't own.


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## Tiauguinho

MrPARR said:


> It seems madness to me paying such a high price for a product that requires such precise application and maintenance when there is much cheaper, and much easier to apply products that offer pretty much the same shine and far better resistance.


So you have tried it against all these other products, to know that EXO offers less shine and less resistance to dirt?



MrPARR said:


> Another product I won't own.


Yeah, I guess not. But thanks for your "informed review".


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## wanna veccy

E38_ross said:


> Gwash leaves no residue, nor does it top up any protection.
> 
> I'm no chemist and what i'm about to say may be a load of bull,but every shampoo that foams contains oils which are broken down by surfactants, which allow the oils to blend with the water that you add to the shampoo and any water already mixed to form the neat shampoo. so there is a good chance that Gwash will leave something behind with regard a chemical.
> 
> Exo is meant to be even easier to clean than C1 and C5. I did a test, C5 on front wheels which take most of the brake dust etx vs colli 476 and fk1000p on each of the rear wheels. After 3 months or so I already had bonded brake dusy embedded in the wheels at the back which needed heavy cleaners to shift. 8 months on the C5 is still actually working, hasn't needed ANYTHING other than normal ph neutral shampoo and there are no caked on brake deposits.
> 
> There is a key word in the above and that is "meant". chances are that you had previously changed front discs and pads and not the rear so you may well be experiencing less contamination from braking due to different brakes.(this may be the case it may not,i doubt we will find out)
> 
> Exo on wheels won't need smart wheels. That's the point. Trust me, if you've not tried C1 then you'd realise how absurd it is to compare to waxes. Exo may be less resistant to chemicals but I've never needed strong chemicals with a C1d car, so I'm guessing I won't with exo. In that respect, it's well worth its money to me.


I'm no chemist and what i'm about to say may be a load of bull,but every shampoo that foams contains oils which are broken down by surfactants, which allow the oils to blend with the water that you add to the shampoo and any water already mixed to form the neat shampoo. so there is a good chance that Gwash will leave something behind with regard a chemical. I know that EXO isn't all that chemical resistant,but to what degree? Is a mild shampoo other than Gwash, still going to give you that magical 2 years of protection? i just can't swallow it( the claim of 2 years protection not anything else)

There is a key word in the above and that is "meant". chances are that you had previously changed front discs and pads and not the rear( this may be too radical even for me but still a viable conclusion) so you may well be experiencing less contamination from braking due to different brakes.(this may be the case it may not,i doubt we will find out)

i agree with you in the thought that protected wheels shouldn't need smart wheels to clean them,but lets just hope that EXO never will.
you say you have never needed strong chemicals for a C1'd car so i pursume you have used weak chemicals instead, but on the other hand that was C1 (which i have to say i like alot :thumbnot EXO. Like every product out there some love it some hate it,i'm not saying ppl shouldn't buy EXO, all i'm saying is what i have experienced (not a blooming lot :lol and in this case it isn't all good like some would have us to believe,in fact if EXO was branded a quick detailer, lower durability rating and cost less then i would have no objections in having it on my shelfs. i just feel that if there is bad news about a product along with all the fantastic hype then it is only fair that ppl hear of that side too.:thumb:


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## E38_ross

wanna veccy said:


> I'm no chemist and what i'm about to say may be a load of bull,but every shampoo that foams contains oils which are broken down by surfactants, which allow the oils to blend with the water that you add to the shampoo and any water already mixed to form the neat shampoo. so there is a good chance that Gwash will leave something behind with regard a chemical. I know that EXO isn't all that chemical resistant,but to what degree? Is a mild shampoo other than Gwash, still going to give you that magical 2 years of protection? i just can't swallow it( the claim of 2 years protection not anything else)
> 
> There is a key word in the above and that is "meant". chances are that you had previously changed front discs and pads and not the rear( this may be too radical even for me but still a viable conclusion) so you may well be experiencing less contamination from braking due to different brakes.(this may be the case it may not,i doubt we will find out)
> 
> i agree with you in the thought that protected wheels shouldn't need smart wheels to clean them,but lets just hope that EXO never will.
> you say you have never needed strong chemicals for a C1'd car so i pursume you have used weak chemicals instead, but on the other hand that was C1 (which i have to say i like alot :thumbnot EXO. Like every product out there some love it some hate it,i'm not saying ppl shouldn't buy EXO, all i'm saying is what i have experienced (not a blooming lot :lol and in this case it isn't all good like some would have us to believe,in fact if EXO was branded a quick detailer, lower durability rating and cost less then i would have no objections in having it on my shelfs. i just feel that if there is bad news about a product along with all the fantastic hype then it is only fair that ppl hear of that side too.:thumb:


fair enough, totally understand what you're saying. regards the C5 vs wheel test, the fronts are slightly newer than the rears, but both sets have done between 10 and 15k miles so hardly anything substantial.

it's been said not just from rob but kelly at KDS and paul at miracle detail that EXO is easier to clean than C1. if what they say is true then EXO won't need things like smart wheels to clean it....because even C1 didn't need that.

i understand why people who haven't tried these products think it's crap because it can't stand up to a wheel cleaner when it'll be used on wheels, but they aren't that used to not needed more aggressive chemicals. i'm a huge fan of C1 and know full well it's more chemical resistant than EXO....thankfully, i don't use harsh chemicals to clean my car because it doesn't need it. i'm going to polish it again soon and put EXO on top.

unlike others who enjoy spending an hour plus waxing their car every week, i don't. i'd rather apply something and be done with it. and it's not just a case of (in my experience) spending 10mins longer per wash....it's more like needing to wash it more often, more harshly (having to scrub harder, use stronger chemicals etc) with other waxes etc. other spray sealants like opti-seal, gtech C1.5 etc make very good cases for themselves in these instances.

frankly, if you spray smart wheels on a car with any of these coatings before even trying to use something simple like a shampoo then they aren't for you as they require a bit of understanding.

also - to the person who said they'd like proof that it's still on there when it's still beading....how do you explain the following:

apply C4 to plastic trim....trim goes darker. it beads water. eventually, it stops beading water but the trim is still nice and dark, showing the coating is still there. i'd like them to explain that to me 

cheers. sorry if i sound a little hot-headed....i just get frustrated with people slandering products which are really moving the game on simply because they think of them like their old, dinosaur-age products like paste waxes. it's absurd. i was sceptical about C1 but having it applied i've sold all of my waxes and other sealants which included colli 476, fk1000p, a few DJ waxes, zymold glasur, carlack68 NSC + LLS and a few more too. i simply cannot tell the difference in appearance, the coating lasts longer, and keeps the car cleaner and i don't need to clean it as often, meaning fewer swirl marks, less polishing over the life of the car and just an easier time cleaning. i guess i'm lazy.


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## -Raven-

Tiauguinho said:


> So you have tried it against all these other products, to know that *EXO offers less shine* and less resistance to dirt?


That came out in the exo thread in the gtechniq section by one of the testers.


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## Gruffs

So, from what i understand, the school of thought here is to have longer lasting beading so that you can use harsh and dangerous chemicals and 'know' that you haven't destroyed your coating because the beading is still there?

Or,

You can have longer lasting beading using much gentler chemicals and the beading is still there. But, once the beading is gone, there is still effectively a coating of glass on your paint.

But you can't use the dangerous stuff to keep your beading so it must be worse?


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## -Raven-

Gruffs said:


> So, from what i understand, the school of thought here is to have longer lasting beading so that you can use harsh and dangerous chemicals and 'know' that you haven't destroyed your coating because the beading is still there?
> 
> Or,
> 
> You can have longer lasting beading using much gentler chemicals and the beading is still there. But, once the beading is gone, there is still effectively a coating of glass on your paint.
> 
> *But you can't use the dangerous stuff to keep your beading so it must be worse?*


what gave you that idea? Take a look at some of the 2, 3 and 4 year old opti-coat threads. This is chemical resistant.


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## -Raven-

E38_ross said:


> i understand why people who haven't tried these products think it's crap because it can't stand up to a wheel cleaner when it'll be used on wheels, but they aren't that used to not needed more aggressive chemicals. i'm a huge fan of C1 and know full well it's more chemical resistant than EXO....thankfully, i don't use harsh chemicals to clean my car because it doesn't need it. i'm going to polish it again soon and put EXO on top.


'Ultra durable hybrid coating' right on the can....


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## E38_ross

-Raven- said:


> what gave you that idea? Take a look at some of the 2, 3 and 4 year old opti-coat threads. This is chemical resistant.


that's akin to C1, not exo. C1 is just as chemical resistant as opti-coat. exo is not replacing C1, both have their place in the market.


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## E38_ross

-Raven- said:


> 'Ultra durable hybrid coating' right on the can....


what? it is ultra-durable....2+ years if you don't spray silly chemicals all over it which you don't need to. not bad for a spray on product as easy to apply as a QD


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## s.bailey

I love these threads.....here's a new product, this is what it does, this is how much it costs.........some people like it are happy with the price, want to use it so buy it.

Some people think it costs too much, say it doesn't last as long as stated if you put molten lava over it etc etc why don't you just rub a candle over your paint coz thats wax and Lidl sell 100 tea lights for a pound.

If we were all sheep who all liked and bought the same ONE product for each task, life would be very boring, and VERY expensive as that product would be sold for whatever they want anyway as thats the only one.

Everyone's different, everyone likes to try different things, and people should respect that and the product itself rather than making ridiculous statements like if you wash your car with highly alkaline wheel cleaner then it will effect the water properties........................................erm!


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## -Raven-

E38_ross said:


> what? it is ultra-durable....2+ years if you don't spray silly chemicals all over it which you don't need to. not bad for a spray on product as easy to apply as a QD


Ultra durable but can't withstand a silly chemical like a wheel cleaner? 

Wolf's body wrap lasts 'up to 24 months'. How long does that last in the real world? seriously? Seems EXO is going to be just as picky to me.


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## Gruffs

s.bailey said:


> I love these threads.....here's a new product, this is what it does, this is how much it costs.........some people like it are happy with the price, want to use it so buy it.
> 
> Some people think it costs too much, say it doesn't last as long as stated if you put molten lava over it etc etc why don't you just rub a candle over your paint coz thats wax and Lidl sell 100 tea lights for a pound.
> 
> If we were all sheep who all liked and bought the same ONE product for each task, life would be very boring, and VERY expensive as that product would be sold for whatever they want anyway as thats the only one.
> 
> Everyone's different, everyone likes to try different things, and people should respect that and the product itself rather than making ridiculous statements like if you wash your car with highly alkaline wheel cleaner then it will effect the water properties........................................erm!


I was trying to be a bit more sarcastic but er, yeah. What he said.


----------



## wanna veccy

E38_ross said:


> fair enough, totally understand what you're saying. regards the C5 vs wheel test, the fronts are slightly newer than the rears, but both sets have done between 10 and 15k miles so hardly anything substantial.
> 
> it's been said not just from rob but kelly at KDS and paul at miracle detail that EXO is easier to clean than C1. if what they say is true then EXO won't need things like smart wheels to clean it....because even C1 didn't need that.
> 
> i understand why people who haven't tried these products think it's crap because it can't stand up to a wheel cleaner when it'll be used on wheels, but they aren't that used to not needed more aggressive chemicals. i'm a huge fan of C1 and know full well it's more chemical resistant than EXO....thankfully, i don't use harsh chemicals to clean my car because it doesn't need it. i'm going to polish it again soon and put EXO on top.
> 
> unlike others who enjoy spending an hour plus waxing their car every week, i don't. i'd rather apply something and be done with it. and it's not just a case of (in my experience) spending 10mins longer per wash....it's more like needing to wash it more often, more harshly (having to scrub harder, use stronger chemicals etc) with other waxes etc. other spray sealants like opti-seal, gtech C1.5 etc make very good cases for themselves in these instances.
> 
> frankly, if you spray smart wheels on a car with any of these coatings before even trying to use something simple like a shampoo then they aren't for you as they require a bit of understanding.
> 
> also - to the person who said they'd like proof that it's still on there when it's still beading....how do you explain the following:
> 
> apply C4 to plastic trim....trim goes darker. it beads water. eventually, it stops beading water but the trim is still nice and dark, showing the coating is still there. i'd like them to explain that to me
> 
> cheers. sorry if i sound a little hot-headed....i just get frustrated with people slandering products which are really moving the game on simply because they think of them like their old, dinosaur-age products like paste waxes. it's absurd. i was sceptical about C1 but having it applied i've sold all of my waxes and other sealants which included colli 476, fk1000p, a few DJ waxes, zymold glasur, carlack68 NSC + LLS and a few more too. i simply cannot tell the difference in appearance, the coating lasts longer, and keeps the car cleaner and i don't need to clean it as often, meaning fewer swirl marks, less polishing over the life of the car and just an easier time cleaning. i guess i'm lazy.


firstly thank you for your honesty with the brakes.
I'm talking from hand on experience with EXO not putting bits and pieces together to make an assumption(wow that sounds like i'm saying you are but, i'm not). Im not "slandering" the innovation of EXO at all, i'm a lazy 5hyt3 and if EXO worked as well as all the claims suggest then it would be perfect for my lazy ass.It is just the description and impressive claims i am worried about.
I think maybe my point is being missed here. Lets step away from smart wheels and just stick to shampoo which also contains chemicals.

A)a sealant that lasts 6 months with shampoo and some APC on occasions.
B)a sealant that claims to lasts 2 years with shampoo.

both subjected to a "strong chemical".

sealant A is showing signs in the form of beading that it is still pressent.
sealant B shows no signs what so ever of its pressence.( if you believe that it is still pressent without any signs then that is fine it is your money)

So to me the "strong chemical" would speed up the effects of chemical subjection resistance. 
A "mild" shampoo contains chemicals( all be it mild ones)

so how can sealant B last 2 years against shampoo? when sealant A still shows clear signs of protection and sealant B does not, when they're both put under the same chemical subjection, when sealant A's durability is only 6 months.

Amen to the less washing,less swirls and the less polishing i am just too lazy to keep polishing the blooming car,and thats my point with EXO i just can't see it lasting that claimed 2 years,if it does and i have good evidence that it has then mama hold me back cause i'll be getting me some. I haven't found you to be "hot headed" at all fella just a guy voicing his bit.:thumb: the same goes for me, i don't want to sound like i'm being negative or a sad so and so,i just feel that if there is good and bad news to something then ppl should be aware of the bad just as much as the good.


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## Gruffs

-Raven- said:


> Ultra durable but can't withstand a silly chemical like a wheel cleaner?
> 
> Wolf's body wrap lasts 'up to 24 months'. How long does that last in the real world? seriously? Seems EXO is going to be just as picky to me.


Same as Dyson hoovers never loose suction. If you clean them regularly.

Every product has small print. Come off it. Some wheel cleaners are not far off drain cleaner or vinegar. Yet you would put neither on your wheels.

You get what you want without having to use a wheel cleaner and it's as hard to apply as a QD.


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## wanna veccy

Gruffs said:


> So, from what i understand, the school of thought here is to have longer lasting beading so that you can use harsh and dangerous chemicals and 'know' that you haven't destroyed your coating because the beading is still there?
> 
> Or,
> 
> You can have longer lasting beading using much gentler chemicals and the beading is still there. But, once the beading is gone, there is still effectively a coating of glass on your paint.
> 
> But you can't use the dangerous stuff to keep your beading so it must be worse?


no you completely don't understand the school of thought.


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## s.bailey

I would advise anyone that does not trust the product they are using to be protecting their paintwork when the visible beading/sheeting performance drops off to not use a long lasting coating, it's obviously not for them.

There are plenty of good, reasonably priced waxes and sealants of all application types out there that you can use regularly to keep the water behaviour on par.

Or if you want to use gtechniq products but wont believe EXO is still working when the beading stops, perhaps go the C1+ route, 1.5 is as easy as a QD to apply and beads like a muthaer!!

No need to thank me, here to help :tumbleweed:


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## wanna veccy

Everyone's different, everyone likes to try different things, and people should respect that and the product itself rather than making ridiculous statements like if you wash your car with highly alkaline wheel cleaner then it will effect the water properties........................................erm![/QUOTE]

you seem to only want what you beleive to be correct to be respected and not give 2 hoots about what anyone else has to say. I'll respect a product that lives up to its claims,and not just respect it because it has been manufactured by a big brand.Who's to say that it only affected water behaviour,if i and others there that witnessed this beleive that EXO was completely removed then Who's to say it wasn't, the manufacturer who wants your money.:thumb:


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## Alan W

I think you need to chill guys and I'll quote what I said on Page 2 again! 



Alan W said:


> Most all products have their strengths and weaknesses/limitations.
> 
> You should choose a product to suit your priorities for it and, knowing the above, treat it accordingly. :thumb:
> 
> If Exo doesn't suit your priorites for an LSP then stop having a dig at it and buy something else!
> 
> Alan W


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## Gruffs

wanna veccy said:


> firstly thank you for your honesty with the brakes.
> I'm talking from hand on experience with EXO not putting bits and pieces together to make an assumption(wow that sounds like i'm saying you are but, i'm not). Im not "slandering" the innovation of EXO at all, i'm a lazy 5hyt3 and if EXO worked as well as all the claims suggest then it would be perfect for my lazy ass.It is just the description and impressive claims i am worried about.
> I think maybe my point is being missed here. Lets step away from smart wheels and just stick to shampoo which also contains chemicals.
> 
> A)a sealant that lasts 6 months with shampoo and some APC on occasions.
> B)a sealant that claims to lasts 2 years with shampoo.
> 
> both subjected to a "strong chemical".
> 
> sealant A is showing signs in the form of beading that it is still pressent.
> sealant B shows no signs what so ever of its pressence.( if you believe that it is still pressent without any signs then that is fine it is your money)
> 
> So to me the "strong chemical" would speed up the effects of chemical subjection resistance.
> A "mild" shampoo contains chemicals( all be it mild ones)
> 
> so how can sealant B last 2 years against shampoo? when sealant A still shows clear signs of protection and sealant B does not, when they're both put under the same chemical subjection, when sealant A's durability is only 6 months.
> 
> Amen to the less washing,less swirls and the less polishing i am just too lazy to keep polishing the blooming car,and thats my point with EXO i just can't see it lasting that claimed 2 years,if it does and i have good evidence that it has then mama hold me back cause i'll be getting me some. I haven't found you to be "hot headed" at all fella just a guy voicing his bit.:thumb: the same goes for me, i don't want to sound like i'm being negative or a sad so and so,i just feel that if there is good and bad news to something then ppl should be aware of the bad just as much as the good.


EXO is two parts. One part is in organic and pretty much Glass. This is the bit that bonds to the paint chemically. The inorganic part is the beading bit. This doesn't stick well to paint, but does stick well to a metal oxide. It is this part that wears off, leaving the glassy (metal oxide) part behind that does the mechanical protection. If you need an interfacing layer to make one bit stick to another, why not make it a hard one?

Stick wheel cleaner on your windscreen and see how long it takes to go away.

Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it is not there.

Of course, poor care and less than perfect prep can have effects too. Hence the caveats in the instructions.


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## s.bailey

you seem to only want what you beleive to be correct to be respected and not give 2 hoots about what anyone else has to say. I'll respect a product that lives up to its claims,and not just respect it because it has been manufactured by a big brand.Who's to say that it only affected water behaviour,if i and others there that witnessed this beleive that EXO was completely removed then Who's to say it wasn't, the manufacturer who wants your money.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Sorry you misunderstand me, I couldn't care less what anyone thinks or believes, I buy products based upon my own likes and beliefs, I am not going to buy EXO as it does not fit in with how I look after my car, I like to detail it far too often to go for a perma-coating that would be hindered by me wiping down with a QD or the like.

All I am saying is everyone is different, you believe that it is too expensive seeing as beading drops off when the car is washed with smartwheels which is fine, that is your opinion, I am merely stating that other people will not share your view as they are not you.

I am still waiting for a comparative video where a paste sealant/wax etc is applied to see how they stand up to smartwheels.....


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## E38_ross

wanna veccy said:


> so how can sealant B last 2 years against shampoo? when sealant A still shows clear signs of protection and sealant B does not, when they're both put under the same chemical subjection, when sealant A's durability is only 6 months.


because durability is far from based purely on chemical resistance, and far more on chemical bond strength; be it covalent, ionic, etc etc.

and "speeding up" normal chemical abuse etc and comparing with a shampoo is totally different. you're seemingly suggesting that all chemicals degrade products. easy example would be one strong acid may degrade something more than a strong alkali product. a simple, pH neutral shampoo may not cause any degradation at all.

that's before you start talking about mechanical resistance. products like waxes are far more prone to failure through mechanical abrasions (e.g. by washing) than coatings like C1 etc. it's really not a simple argument saying well a sealant that lasts 6 months but can stand up to stronger chemicals is a better product; it really doesn't just work that way.


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## E38_ross

-Raven- said:


> Ultra durable but can't withstand a silly chemical like a wheel cleaner?


the plastic bottle used to store my diet coke this morning is ultra durable unless i stick a load of sulphuric acid in it.

EXO is ultra durable if cared for properly. more durable than a paste waxes will ever be if that's cared for in the way its supposed to be cared for; and caring for both of them will also be in the best interest of your paint. i don't see any relevance to it not standing up to a wheel cleaner? why is that relevant when you don't need to use a wheel cleaner to wash it? i care more about how long it lasts when washed with shampoo, since i wash it with shampoo for **** sake.


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## amiller

E38_ross said:


> i don't see any relevance to it not standing up to a wheel cleaner? why is that relevant when you don't need to use a wheel cleaner to wash it?


I think the concern, and perhaps the reasonaing behind the 'wheel cleaner demonstration' is to show that alkalkine products damage the EXO coating. Now, just to be clear, *it is not only wheel cleaners that are alkaline*. Many of the 'better' snowfoams and 'bug removers' are alkaline based.

So with this in mind, EXO users, who (in my opinion) will be real detailing enthusiasts, should take care to protect the coating by NOT using alkaline based products.


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## amiller

I have a question to those that clearly no more about this product than I...

- you say the organic part is a 'glass coating'. Are you sure or is it just si14 based like c2 is? 

I dont think EXO is a ceramic, or glass coating like suggested. More like a super hydrophob spray sealant?


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## Gruffs

Let me check.

C1+ is certainly ceramic. But, now you have asked, i did assume that.

EDIT:

http://gtechniq.com/downloads/EXO Presentation.pdf

Page 3 diagram should explain all.


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## E38_ross

amiller said:


> I think the concern, and perhaps the reasonaing behind the 'wheel cleaner demonstration' is to show that alkalkine products damage the EXO coating. Now, just to be clear, *it is not only wheel cleaners that are alkaline*. Many of the 'better' snowfoams and 'bug removers' are alkaline based.
> 
> So with this in mind, EXO users, who (in my opinion) will be real detailing enthusiasts, should take care to protect the coating by NOT using alkaline based products.


playing devils advocate here - snow foams are pointless on these types of products. Rob from gtech said they were going to develop a snow foam but in testing found they actually yielded VERY little benefit so didn't bother.

now....i better run and hide :lol:


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## Goodfella36

amiller said:


> I think the concern, and perhaps the reasonaing behind the 'wheel cleaner demonstration' is to show that alkalkine products damage the EXO coating. Now, just to be clear, *it is not only wheel cleaners that are alkaline*. Many of the 'better' snowfoams and 'bug removers' are alkaline based.
> 
> So with this in mind, EXO users, who (in my opinion) will be real detailing enthusiasts, should take care to protect the coating by NOT using alkaline based products.


At last someone has got it and don't get on the subject of covalent bonding.

All coatings whether it be C1 Cquartz Opti-coat need there care though these types are more resistant to chemicals but these do need care to keep the upper layer clean and working its best.

It's not just a case of thinking these nano sealants are put on and just washed for the next two years as these will pick up contaminates as well so will need something stronger then a wash to keep the upper surface clean and working at its best.


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## Gruffs

E38_ross said:


> playing devils advocate here - snow foams are pointless on these types of products. Rob from gtech said they were going to develop a snow foam but in testing found they actually yielded VERY little benefit so didn't bother.
> 
> now....i better run and hide :lol:


No running and hiding!

Stand up and fight for the furthering of human technology.


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## -Raven-

E38_ross said:


> the plastic bottle used to store my diet coke this morning is ultra durable unless i stick a load of sulphuric acid in it.


sulphuric acid eats mild steel too, and yet we store it in uncoated mild steel.. what's your point? :tumbleweed:



E38_ross said:


> EXO is ultra durable if cared for properly. more durable than a paste waxes will ever be if that's cared for in the way its supposed to be cared for; and caring for both of them will also be in the best interest of your paint. i don't see any relevance to it not standing up to a wheel cleaner? why is that relevant when you don't need to use a wheel cleaner to wash it? i care more about how long it lasts when washed with shampoo, since i wash it with shampoo for **** sake.


 You don't have to care for 'ultra durable' coatings, that is the point of them.

I'm not comparing exo to paste wax, merely reload/silo seal and other 'topper' coatings that cost just a fraction and seem to do exactly the same job. :thumb:


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## Goodfella36

Gruffs said:


> Let me check.
> 
> C1+ is certainly ceramic. But, now you have asked, i did assume that.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> http://gtechniq.com/downloads/EXO Presentation.pdf
> 
> Page 3 diagram should explain all.


All them test were done on Glass by looks where the bond is stronger than on paint. so take that with a pinch of salt after being in a lab recently and seeing lots of tests things can be made to look good very easy but in real world are not the same.


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## Gruffs

BespokeCarCare said:


> All them test were done on Glass by looks where the bond is stronger than on paint. so take that with a pinch of salt after being in a lab recently and seeing lots of tests things can be made to look good very easy but in real world are not the same.


Point noted. 
But, surely that would be the same for ANY coating hence the use of an easily repeated standard such as glass? It's not just strength of bond either, surface finish can have a lot to do with contact angle.

That way you are testing the coating not the substrate.

I accept your point that operator/user/substrate variables will affect the coating's performance 'in the real world'.

Which is why 'in the real world' you are advised on how to apply the product and how to care for it to maintain performance as close as possible to the lab results.

Not go chucking anything you like on it after applying it to a dirty car.

As for the differences between EXO and C1.5etc. The pacaking method for EXO is an Aerosol as it is so reactive it has to be kept in an inert atmosphere. C1.5 is water-based and not so reactive.

So (I'm assuming the next bit) it would seem logical that C1.5 is not as reactive. it is harder to get a complete reaction and so the resulting coating is weaker. C1.5 can also be removed with panel wipe IIRC.

So, they are not the same. Just similar.


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## Goodfella36

Gruffs said:


> Point noted.
> 
> You are right Glass is a truer surface then paint I have not been talking about C1.5 as this is just a top up product to help safe guard against natural minerals within your wash solution and water. silica is present within C1 and is another naturally occurring mineral which has the potential to except other natural occurring minerals and becoming part of the coating itself C.15 is as such a sacrificial hydrophobic layer to help against water spotting.
> 
> Also in labs test silica wafers are often used as it's the truest surface when comparing thickness and reflective index ratings.
> 
> Hopefully no one on detailing world will chuck anything on a dirty car what I am saying is quite often real world results will be different then lab results
> Yes once again EXO is sold in an air tight container as reacts with air not like a chemical reaction but purely down to the solvents contained within the aerosol this does not offer anything when we are looking at bond strength it mealy dries faster.
> C.15 is water based so this product like many other on the market it relies on evaporation but the bond is still the same as in adhesion there cannot be any covalent bonding with paint exo relies on a strong adhesion bond.
> 
> I remember you posting on these threads Gruff so know you have a good understanding.
> 
> i am sure Exo could be removed with panel wipe as well
> 
> also in real world you are just told to wash cars with C1 exo etc yet Cquartz recomend you actully use a apc wash every so offten to keep uper surface clean you would not be doing that with exo but people dont know this
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=130901
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=127943
> 
> Please dont think i am getting at exo in anyway i want people to realise that more effort needs to be put in on aftercare of differant products to keep them at there best like i said would i use EXO yes makes a dam good quick detailer and perfect for on top off Nano products price is what kills it a little for me.


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## Gruffs

At least we are getting somewhere positive rather than hearsay and feelings.

Covalency is something that piques my interest too. I'm not a chemist by any means but I have a logical mind of sorts.

As i understand it from GCSE Chemistry, covalent bonds are formed when atoms share a pair of electrons. 

So, when covalent bonds were mentioned. I assumed that either there were 'free' electrons (unlikely) or, there was some kind of covalent bond creation with the surface. i.e. there were bonds being broken and re-formed with the paint (I want to say hydrolysis but i'm not sure that's correct).

Is this even possible? Like I said, I'm not a chemist but if I can ask the question, perhaps someone else already has the answer.


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## E38_ross

Basically, the bonds between the substrate and exo, C1 etc are much stronger than the bonds formed by the more simple products like C1.5. Whilst the simpler product may be more chemical resistant, if both are washed using normal wash techniques, particularly those by enthusiasts like us (who should realise there is no need to use wheel cleaners on paint or wheels sealed by this product) then exo will last longer than things like c1.5,reload etc.


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## great gonzo

Oooooh way over my head!


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## Guest




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## Alan W

amiller said:


> I think the concern, and perhaps the reasonaing behind the 'wheel cleaner demonstration' is to show that alkalkine products damage the EXO coating. Now, just to be clear, *it is not only wheel cleaners that are alkaline*. Many of the 'better' snowfoams and 'bug removers' are alkaline based.
> 
> So with this in mind, EXO users, who (in my opinion) will be real detailing enthusiasts, should take care to protect the coating by NOT using alkaline based products.


Good points Andrew! :thumb:

I also have it on good authority that Exo won't withstand a strong APC mix.

However, knowing all the above products that *shouldn't be used *makes us better informed and ensures the coating can be treated with respect allowing it to last longer and not fail prematurely as has happened to some.

Alan W


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## wanna veccy

s.bailey said:


> you seem to only want what you beleive to be correct to be respected and not give 2 hoots about what anyone else has to say. I'll respect a product that lives up to its claims,and not just respect it because it has been manufactured by a big brand.Who's to say that it only affected water behaviour,if i and others there that witnessed this beleive that EXO was completely removed then Who's to say it wasn't, the manufacturer who wants your money.
> _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Sorry you misunderstand me, I couldn't care less what anyone thinks or believes, I buy products based upon my own likes and beliefs, I am not going to buy EXO as it does not fit in with how I look after my car, I like to detail it far too often to go for a perma-coating that would be hindered by me wiping down with a QD or the like.
> 
> All I am saying is everyone is different, you believe that it is too expensive seeing as beading drops off when the car is washed with smartwheels which is fine, that is your opinion, I am merely stating that other people will not share your view as they are not you.
> 
> I am still waiting for a comparative video where a paste sealant/wax etc is applied to see how they stand up to smartwheels.....


if you couldn't care less why are you even bothering to kick up a stink once again.washing the car with smartwheels mallarky isn't my opinion, my opinion is that i can't see it lasting 2 years using just shampoo end of.i'm also very aware that not every one may share my opinion so maybe you should take your own advice,ppl have a right to know the good and bad,if you have no interest in using EXO why are you wasting mine and others time on this thread.


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## s.bailey

I have edited this response to remove my initial reply as I just can't be bothered with infrequent posters who get the ump because someone else has an opinion that isn't the same as theirs. Bore off and go and wash your car with hydrochloric acid to prove the clearcoat isn't up to much!


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## wanna veccy

Gruffs said:


> EXO is two parts. One part is in organic and pretty much Glass. This is the bit that bonds to the paint chemically. The inorganic part is the beading bit. This doesn't stick well to paint, but does stick well to a metal oxide. It is this part that wears off, leaving the glassy (metal oxide) part behind that does the mechanical protection. If you need an interfacing layer to make one bit stick to another, why not make it a hard one?
> 
> Stick wheel cleaner on your windscreen and see how long it takes to go away.
> 
> Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it is not there.
> 
> Of course, poor care and less than perfect prep can have effects too. Hence the caveats in the instructions.


yes your right if you can't see it it doesn't mean it isn't there.but who says it is.


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## wanna veccy

s.bailey said:


> I have edited this response to remove my initial reply as I just can't be bothered with infrequent posters who get the ump because someone else has an opinion that isn't the same as theirs. Bore off and go and wash your car with hydrochloric acid to prove the clearcoat isn't up to much!


my response to this post can be found in the whole of post 80. i think the thing you are now after is down on the floor if you cant reach from your high chair going ask an appropriate adult to help you.:thumb:


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## Guest




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## E38_ross

wanna veccy said:


> if you couldn't care less why are you even bothering to kick up a stink once again.washing the car with smartwheels mallarky isn't my opinion, my opinion is that i can't see it lasting 2 years using just shampoo end of.i'm also very aware that not every one may share my opinion so maybe you should take your own advice,ppl have a right to know the good and bad,if you have no interest in using EXO why are you wasting mine and others time on this thread.


i think his gripe is that your opinion about it not lasting 2 years using a shampoo to clean it is completely unfounded; yet the manufacturers have done testing which suggests the complete opposite to your opinion


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## Goodfella36

Gruffs said:


> At least we are getting somewhere positive rather than hearsay and feelings.
> Covalency is something that piques my interest too. I'm not a chemist by any means but I have a logical mind of sorts.
> As i understand it from GCSE Chemistry, covalent bonds are formed when atoms share a pair of electrons.
> So, when covalent bonds were mentioned. I assumed that either there were 'free' electrons (unlikely) or, there was some kind of covalent bond creation with the surface. i.e. there were bonds being broken and re-formed with the paint (I want to say hydrolysis but i'm not sure that's correct).
> 
> Is this even possible? Like I said, I'm not a chemist but if I can ask the question, perhaps someone else already has the answer.


A lot things are hearsay or misinformation or marketing blurb if people don't challenge the manufactures then we will believe anything they tell us they are here to make money at the end of the day some care more than others of course and try to answer questions as best as they can.

I didn't really want to get in to the Covalent bond topic as speaking to chemists in past you hear different things for people interested in covalent bonding then hears good place to start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covalent_bond

So is my question back to you Gruff is your car positively or negatively charged what about all the plastic painted parts. In the past I have also read electro statically bonding. (Water is a classic case of covalent bonding, where 2 Hydrogen atoms are covalent bonded to 1 oxygen atom) There is nothing inert or otherwise within vehicle paints to cause any product to covalent bond to the surface.
Sorry but in my eyes all comes down to bond adhesion of products what chemicals are in them and chemical resistance to different products as I mentioned on the other thread which Andrew kindly pointed out earlier.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=260615&page=55

We could also go a step further and start talking about increasing the dyne of paint 



E38_ross said:


> Basically, the bonds between the substrate and exo, C1 etc are much stronger than the bonds formed by the more simple products like C1.5. Whilst the simpler product may be more chemical resistant, if both are washed using normal wash techniques, particularly those by enthusiasts like us (who should realise there is no need to use wheel cleaners on paint or wheels sealed by this product) then exo will last longer than things like c1.5,reload etc.


but if EXO is so sensitive to alkaline products and also application does have to be spot on to get the best from it is this ideal for the home user or do you think in 6 months time when application has not been quite right or no aftercare bar washing is mentioned yet they have a load of tree sap on their car and normal wash won't get it off they use a strong product and all of a sudden the car is not beading like it was or water not sheeting then people will be slating exo seen it in past on other products this is all down to misinformation.

The more people know about any product the better as for talking about wax a wax you can put on most waxes last an average of 3 months but you can just strip back reapply and you done not so much aftercare is needed so does have some benefits.



E38_ross said:


> i think his gripe is that your opinion about it not lasting 2 years using a shampoo to clean it is completely unfounded; yet the manufacturers have done testing which suggests the complete opposite to your opinion


Its well documented that Rob and kelly etc have not long finished testing to get the right application of the product so how can anyone claim 2 years of washing and the product will still be intact. ???????


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## CraigQQ

I have completed accelerated washing tests, and it withstood it, but at the same time its not the same as washing once a week over a long period.

I can tell you that the first ever full car to recieve exo is still beading like day one now, the owner is very happy with it, this has been around 8 months from application maintained solely by the owner with a weekly wash.

I won't get involved in the covalent bond ect as I am not a scientist, I understand the basics of it ect but not enough to discuss whether it works or not in this sense.

I will respect the opinion of anyone who has first hand experience of exo, whether its positive or negative.
I will however not respect the opinion of anyone slating a product without trying it, based on a video of it being removed with a wheel cleaner.


----------



## wanna veccy

Its well documented that Rob and kelly etc have not long finished testing to get the right application of the product so how can anyone claim 2 years of washing and the product will still be intact. ???????[/QUOTE]

very well put sir,very well put indeed.maybe the claim of 2 years has come from kancoat themselfs.

heres your vids of fk1000p by the way.


----------



## Goodfella36

CraigQQ said:


> I have completed accelerated washing tests, and it withstood it, but at the same time its not the same as washing once a week over a long period.
> 
> I can tell you that the first ever full car to recieve exo is still beading like day one now, the owner is very happy with it, this has been around 8 months from application maintained solely by the owner with a weekly wash.
> 
> I won't get involved in the covalent bond ect as I am not a scientist, I understand the basics of it ect but not enough to discuss whether it works or not in this sense.
> 
> I will respect the opinion of anyone who has first hand experience of exo, whether its positive or negative.
> I will however not respect the opinion of anyone slating a product without trying it, based on a video of it being removed with a wheel cleaner.


Thats a fair answer craig and its still doing fine on my own car at the moment :thumb:


----------



## E38_ross

just as well; it's a shame it didn't prevent the brake dust sticking to my wheels then isn't it, meaning i HAD to use a wheel cleaner :lol:


----------



## wanna veccy

E38_ross said:


> just as well; it's a shame it didn't prevent the brake dust sticking to my wheels then isn't it, meaning i HAD to use a wheel cleaner :lol:


you must have been driving too fast.pmsl:thumb:


----------



## blake_jl

E38_ross said:


> C1 is just as chemical resistant as opti-coat


Wrong...


----------



## -Raven-

CraigQQ said:


> I will however not respect the opinion of anyone slating a product without trying it, based on a video of it being removed with a wheel cleaner.


we wouldn't be here if we weren't interested, everyone is interested!!! But would you seriously spend £125 on a can if it can be removed so easily? 

I want reassurance before I buy, but that just isn't happening. Advertised as ultra durable? Highly resistant to regular wash process chemicals? Sorry, but things just aren't adding up.


----------



## CraigQQ

where did I say you weren't interested?

again, your giving an opinion on a product you haven't tried and keep going back to a video of it being removed on a car that wasn't applied properly.

I have used plenty of exo, and done a number of tests and it withstood APC(Gtechniq's own and Meguiars) and the TFR I tried (Autosmart Active XL), with impairment but not total removal of beading.

Is it the most durable chemical resistant coating ever made? probably not, 
Is it durable if applied and maintained properly, definitely. 
In the accelerated tests I performed on a coating applied as directed it retained a higher beading angle and better sheeting ability after 100 washes than 3 quartz coatings it was up against.
I used a pure wash shampoo(that wasn't from any of the brands of coating), that contains no gloss enhancers, no wax ect, to show that there was nothing but the coating left on the surface.


----------



## -Raven-

CraigQQ said:


> where did I say you weren't interested?
> 
> again, your giving an opinion on a product you haven't tried and keep going back to a video of it being removed on a car that wasn't applied properly.
> 
> I have used plenty of exo, and done a number of tests and it withstood APC(Gtechniq's own and Meguiars) and the TFR I tried (Autosmart Active XL), with impairment but not total removal of beading.
> 
> Is it the most durable chemical resistant coating ever made? probably not,
> Is it durable if applied and maintained properly, definitely.
> In the accelerated tests I performed on a coating applied as directed it retained a higher beading angle and better sheeting ability after 100 washes than 3 quartz coatings it was up against.
> I used a pure wash shampoo(that wasn't from any of the brands of coating), that contains no gloss enhancers, no wax ect, to show that there was nothing but the coating left on the surface.


So better beading = better coating?

When you're at work next, what are the chances of sending me a can to test?


----------



## Kelly @ KDS

-Raven- said:


> So better beading = better coating?
> 
> When you're at work next, what are the chances of sending me a can to test?


fresh baked untouched paint , gives insane beading and bare paint 

kelly


----------



## s.bailey

Kelly @ KDS said:


> fresh baked untouched paint , gives insane beading and bare paint
> 
> kelly


How does it stand up to smart wheels though, if it can't stand up to being washed with wheel cleaner then quite frankly i don't want any paint on my car whatsoever!!!! :thumb::lol:


----------



## CraigQQ

-Raven- said:


> So better beading = better coating?
> 
> When you're at work next, what are the chances of sending me a can to test?


Did I claim it was a better coating than the others? I clearly said its probably not the most durable or chemical resistant coating in the world...

I was merely telling you that it does withstand what you called "regular wash chemicals"

Why would I give away something worth over £100 :wall:


----------



## Alan W

s.bailey said:


> How does it stand up to smart wheels though, if it can't stand up to being washed with wheel cleaner then quite frankly i don't want any paint on my car whatsoever!!!! :thumb::lol:


Give up! 

Alan W


----------



## blake_jl

So this is how a thread dies a slow death...

Petrol anyone?


----------



## wanna veccy

afternoon everybody,today i have had another oppertunity to play with a few sealants EXO being one.i think i now have my final conclusion on EXO (to which some of you may not be interested in).EXO deffinately has its place in the car cleaning armoury (not in every ones armoury but it defo deserves its place on the shelf).i still feel the same towards EXO with regard to everything i have tried to say previously,as a stand alone sealant this is just not good enough,due to its cost, chemical resistance and its very tiny margin for error during the application stage,and when i say tiny i mean tiny.however i still believe as i allways have done that as a top up product for a more permanent sealant something like opti-coat,then in my eyes you have the best lsp combo around, probably one of if not the best/longest lasting sealants around for protection against swirls and uv and then the imense beading and sheeting from EXO,if slickness is also your thing then the two together should make up for some very slick slickness:doublesho
some have commented on the self/ easy clean ability of EXO so there will be no need for any chemical to be on the paint whilst using EXO other than shampoo(which i feel the chemicals pressent in shampoo will still reduce that 2 year protection claim),well born to be mild shampoo on a tree sap covered EXO didn't even touch the tree sap,so i'm afraid to say it but you really are going to need something to remove that tree sap,maybe a good idear to get the clay bar out.:thumb:
so lets sum up EXO (of course in my eyes)if you can justify the expense of it to the Mrs and you are going to use it as a top up product then go and get some. if you absolutey hate every sealant out there other than EXO then go get some,but i think for most as a stand alone sealant this is just going to be to expensive,cause i really don't think your gonna get anywhere near that 2 years durability.:thumb:


----------



## s.bailey

Can someone please lock this thread!!! It's just an excuse for people to talk **** with no evidence of the **** they are saying. Plus it's boring. Thanks.


----------



## CraigQQ

wanna veccy said:


> afternoon everybody,today i have had another oppertunity to play with a few sealants EXO being one.i think i now have my final conclusion on EXO (to which some of you may not be interested in).EXO deffinately has its place in the car cleaning armoury (not in every ones armoury but it defo deserves its place on the shelf).i still feel the same towards EXO with regard to everything i have tried to say previously,as a stand alone sealant this is just not good enough,due to its cost, chemical resistance and its very tiny margin for error during the application stage,and when i say tiny i mean tiny.however i still believe as i allways have done that as a top up product for a more permanent sealant something like opti-coat,then in my eyes you have the best lsp combo around, probably one of if not the best/longest lasting sealants around for protection against swirls and uv and then the imense beading and sheeting from EXO,if slickness is also your thing then the two together should make up for some very slick slickness:doublesho
> some have commented on the self/ easy clean ability of EXO so there will be no need for any chemical to be on the paint whilst using EXO other than shampoo(which i feel the chemicals pressent in shampoo will still reduce that 2 year protection claim),well born to be mild shampoo on a tree sap covered EXO didn't even touch the tree sap,so i'm afraid to say it but you really are going to need something to remove that tree sap,maybe a good idear to get the clay bar out.:thumb:
> so lets sum up EXO (of course in my eyes)if you can justify the expense of it to the Mrs and you are going to use it as a top up product then go and get some. if you absolutey hate every sealant out there other than EXO then go get some,but i think for most as a stand alone sealant this is just going to be to expensive,cause i really don't think your gonna get anywhere near that 2 years durability.:thumb:


Like I said earlier, I respect the opinion of anyone who has actually used EXO.
It's definitely not for everyone as you say. Some will love it and some not.


----------



## Goodfella36

s.bailey said:


> Can someone please lock this thread!!! It's just an excuse for people to talk **** with no evidence of the **** they are saying. Plus it's boring. Thanks.


well all chemical testing was done today on the sealants with some interesting results now even i hold my hands up i have been using sealants for good fews years but learnt a lot last few months and today and also the up keep of sealants and how chemicals are needed.

i will upload one video now but fill write up will be couple of weeks away as still some things i want to do.


----------



## Alan W

s.bailey said:


> Can someone please lock this thread!!! It's just an excuse for people to talk **** with no evidence of the **** they are saying. Plus it's boring. Thanks.


I'm sure everyone will agree that constructive comments on Exo are welcomed in this Thread! :thumb:

However, destructive comments such as yours are not! :wall:

Go away and play with some buses unless you can be constructive please! :lol:

Alan W


----------



## wanna veccy

s.bailey if you could be a bit more precise with the "****" you want evidence of then that would be great.I'm not entirely sure if your refering to what i have said or Gtechniq's claims of EXO.:thumb:

craig i pressume your having a dig at me with the lack of respect because you pressume i have not used EXO.if that is the case i'm not sure what keeps giving you that impression.also i would like to add that i haven't posted in this thread to gain your respect or the respect of others,i would like to remind you that the op asked "Guys This has been out a while now and for those that have used it what are you views please?? And is it worth the extra over C1 ?? " so if it is ok with you respected or not my comments qualify to the op.


----------



## s.bailey

Alan W said:


> I'm sure everyone will agree that constructive comments on Exo are welcomed in this Thread! :thumb:
> 
> However, destructive comments such as yours are not! :wall:
> 
> Go away and play with some buses unless you can be constructive please! :lol:
> 
> Alan W


Thanks for proving my point.....there's always one who does. :wave:

My comments are not destructive, asking for a thread to be locked where the main contributor rubbishes a developed and researched product before they had used it and then on the basis that they used it today state it will never last 2 years, is quite frankly VERY destructive.....to the company that has invested time and money into it.

Anyway off to go find some of those buses now, hopefully if I get hit on the head hard enough I will be able to understand the mentality of the know it alls on here!


----------



## CraigQQ

wanna veccy said:


> craig i pressume your having a dig at me with the lack of respect because you pressume i have not used EXO.if that is the case i'm not sure what keeps giving you that impression.also i would like to add that i haven't posted in this thread to gain your respect or the respect of others,i would like to remind you that the op asked "Guys This has been out a while now and for those that have used it what are you views please?? And is it worth the extra over C1 ?? " so if it is ok with you respected or not my comments qualify to the op.


Did you actually read what I wrote?

I said that I respected your opinion because you HAD used exo.. :wall:


----------



## -Kev-

any chance of this thread keeping on topic please?..


----------



## AaronGTi

Alan W said:


> I'm sure everyone will agree that constructive comments on Exo are welcomed in this Thread! :thumb:
> 
> However, destructive comments such as yours are not! :wall:
> 
> Go away and play with some buses unless you can be constructive please! :lol:
> 
> Alan W


Thanked by mistake sorry


----------



## Goodfella36

Ok enough of the bickering everyone has their opinions like some people will always support certain manufactures in my eyes none have a perfect range and mix and match will always be needed to get the best of everything you want there is no right or wrong only what people prefer we all have different tastes.

Below are couple of videos from today this was the very first chemical used HAZESAFE 10-1 now even a good wax will withstand this product. 7 Chemicals were used in these tests

Please ignor normal Cquartz in top left corner as this will make sence in later videos on as this was another test i was doing. i will show normal cquartz testing as well sepearate.

TURN your sound down windy not nice to listen to.











i wont make a comment untill people have given any thoughts


----------



## quattrogmbh

From what i can see, the beading is different with EXO. Its unclear if this is because the angle of the panel is causing the beading to roll off.

From the "best looking" beading in this test, in my opinion, that looks to be ceramicshield.


----------



## wanna veccy

quattrogmbh said:


> From what i can see, the beading is different with EXO. Its unclear if this is because the angle of the panel is causing the beading to roll off.
> 
> From the "best looking" beading in this test, in my opinion, that looks to be ceramicshield.


when lee gets chance to upload and do his full write up you will see that it is starting to die off straight away.:thumb:


----------



## Tips

Is that a CarPro Wash mitt I see in action


----------



## Goodfella36

Tips said:


> Is that a CarPro Wash mitt I see in action


It is and would not be without them best there is my opinion of course :thumb:


----------



## Tips

Wot no Dooka?


----------



## Goodfella36

Tips said:


> Wot no Dooka?


I like the little dooka for the wheels but prefer the long hairs of the Carpro mitt for paint as you can lift it of the paint and let the hairs do the work so you are not puting presure on the paint which might result in even more swirls.


----------



## Tips

Fantastic test, much appreciated Lee.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for result wise.

More beads? less beads? tighter beads? 
Quicker sheeting, slower sheeting, sh sheeting :lol:


----------



## Goodfella36

Tips said:


> Fantastic test, much appreciated Lee.
> 
> I'm not sure what I'm looking for result wise.
> 
> More beads? less beads? tighter beads?
> Quicker sheeting, slower sheeting, sh sheeting :lol:


I did this test for number of reason this is a personal test yes a couple of manufactures did send me samples to test but I asked none of them for samples as this was for my benefit and trying to bring some honesty I might get some stick for doing this but sometimes blinkers need to come of

no one has really done in-depth testing of Nano sealants we all believe what is told us and part of this test is for the best aftercare for sealants in my eyes remember this is all in my eyes others may get different results.

I want good resistance from wide range of chemicals as this will be more important in aftercare as this will become more apparent in when I do full write up I am still testing at moment and it will be a few weeks yet before I do a full write up.

You say about beading and sheeting what do you want from your personal choice as trust me they have differences on my car.

I will put up one more video that I am uploading another 30 mins to go.


----------



## Alan W

BespokeCarCare said:


> I did this test for number of reason this is a personal test yes a couple of manufactures did send me samples to test but I asked none of them for samples as this was for my benefit and trying to bring some honesty I might get some stick for doing this but sometimes blinkers need to come of
> 
> no one has really done in-depth testing of Nano sealants we all believe what is told us and part of this test is for the best aftercare for sealants in my eyes remember this is all in my eyes others may get different results.
> 
> I want good resistance from wide range of chemicals as this will be more important in aftercare as this will become more apparent in when I do full write up I am still testing at moment and it will be a few weeks yet before I do a full write up.


You know my thoughts from our discussions Lee and I hope you can 'tell it like it is' when the time comes! :thumb:

We need to develop the right maintenance regimes to look after these new high tech coatings and be able to maximise their performance and durability. 

Thanks in advance of your further testing and sharing of the results! :thumb:

Alan W


----------



## wanna veccy

Alan W said:


> You know my thoughts from our discussions Lee and I hope you can 'tell it like it is' when the time comes! :thumb:
> 
> We need to develop the right maintenance regimes to look after these new high tech coatings and be able to maximise their performance and durability.
> 
> Thanks in advance of your further testing and sharing of the results! :thumb:
> 
> Alan W


well if he doesn't i will hunt him down,then post up the evidence of his testing,but i won't edit them to remove his shiny legs.:wave:


----------



## Goodfella36

2nd chemical APC at 10-1 Chemcial testing is only part of it all sealants are on my car as well.

I must state in fairness EXO is doing fine on car but its resistance to chemcials is not good this will become more intresting when i talk about aftercare on car.


----------



## Blueberry

I can't quite make out the names of the sealants furthest away from the camera. Can you tell me what they are from left to right?


----------



## Goodfella36

Blueberry said:


> I can't quite make out the names of the sealants furthest away from the camera. Can you tell me what they are from left to right?


ok from left top

Cquartz but forget this one for moment please.
EXO middle top 
Cquartz Finest top right

Middle row from left

Nanolex ultra
G3 Glasscoat
Max protect 
Ceramishield

Bottom row from left to right they do not go right to bottom of panel

Opti-Guard
Opti-Coat 2.0
Gtechniq C1+

If anyone has any questions please feel free i cant give all information i have gatherd yet as want to do it in set write up and still some testing to be done plus durabillity of sealants on car will take time but with a fair amount of fall out on car sap etc which normal washing is not removing chemcials are going to have to be used.


----------



## blake_jl

The back left and middle left aren't looking too good


----------



## blake_jl

Sorry back left and back middle


----------



## Goodfella36

blake_jl said:


> Sorry back left and back middle


you mean top row left one is not to be counted as stated before middle is EXO there is another 5 chemcials after these videos not all survied to the end of course this is a different story on the car for the moment as not had chemicals yet.


----------



## blake_jl

Ah yes you're right. It's the one you said to ignore top at the left


----------



## Gruffs

I appreciate the testing :thumbs:

What are the indicators for failure you are using please?


----------



## blake_jl

Gruffs said:


> What are the indicators for failure you are using please?


Just to jump in before the argument begins about products still being there even though it looks like they aren't. I don't think he is using the term "failed". He is simply referring to chemical resistance.

If a coating no longer beads water after it comes in contact with a certain chemical then it is fair to say its resistance to that chemical is poor. Whether or not the coating has "failed" is up to the individual to decide.


----------



## blake_jl

My opinion by the way is that it has failed. 

Hydrophobic properties are important to me. It makes the car easier to clean and the whole "self cleaning" comes from this property.

If they coating no longer beads water but is still there on some microscopic level, it may as well not be. I'll machine it and apply something else.


----------



## wanna veccy

blake_jl said:


> Just to jump in before the argument begins about products still being there even though it looks like they aren't. I don't think he is using the term "failed". He is simply referring to chemical resistance.
> 
> If a coating no longer beads water after it comes in contact with a certain chemical then it is fair to say its resistance to that chemical is poor. Whether or not the coating has "failed" is up to the individual to decide.[/qu
> 
> what you have said is very true to what i believe.
> And that is exactly the problem we get with testing products,ppl seem to think that what is said as someones opinion/findings means that those findings are the be all and end all, if ppl decide to disagree even tho there is video evidence of the testing thats cool,maybe make your own personel testing video to show that your argument is a viable one.the only way to be sure about a product for yourself is to test the product your self(don't rely on manufacturers,or anyone elses findings).some ppl feel that beading and sheeting are two good signs that show a product is still pressent (protecting or not) some don't.
> Gruffs it seems to me that you don't feel much for beading and sheeting to decide if the product is still pressent,so if you don't mind me asking buddy what do you do to convince your self that the product is still there doing its job?


----------



## E38_ross

blake_jl said:


> Hydrophobic properties are important to me. It makes the car easier to clean and the whole "self cleaning" comes from this property.


wrong i'm afraid. how do you explain the old gtechniq coating C0? it was actually a hydrophilic (the opposite of hydrophobic) coating used in the marine industry which was actually (admittedly only marginally) BETTER at repelling dirt and keeping the surface clean than the C1 of the time. the only reason it was dropped was because the C1 was better in other areas and it worked out better to just concentrate on one product instead of 2. keen to hear your thoughts on that......

you're thinking of waxes. these coatings require a whole new train of thought.

regards telling if it's still on there......very difficult on paint but very easy on black plastic trim......as i said earlier it was clear with C4 it made the trim nice and black and beaded water, but after the beading had stopped the black trim was still black and easier to clean, thus the coating was still on there.

as said, these coatings really require a new train of thought.


----------



## adlem

Thank you for your testing Lee, look forward to the results :thumb:


----------



## Gruffs

I'm not going to elaborate on why, for reasons outside of DW and well, you just don't need to know . 

It's nothing to do with paint and I'm not affiliated with any manufacturer of these products.


----------



## blake_jl

E38_ross said:


> wrong i'm afraid. how do you explain the old gtechniq coating C0?


Hydrophilic coatings still sheet the water off quite well. Take a look at that video where the water no longer sheets off EXO. It just sits there.

Sorry, but I'm not wrong.


----------



## E38_ross

blake_jl said:


> Hydrophilic coatings still sheet the water off quite well. Take a look at that video where the water no longer sheets off EXO. It just sits there.
> 
> Sorry, but I'm not wrong.


We'll agree to disagree then. Hydrophilic by definition won't sheet water.


----------



## wanna veccy

A hydrophobic product is a product that reppels water so would give you your beading and sheeting. A hydrophilic product actually attracts water and due to this bonding contaminants would be pushed away to the surface to make way for the water,so the water would dispers alot slower,so a hydrophilic sealant in theory would be better at self cleaning (to a degree) against some contaminants not all. maybe a marine based sealant works best due to its time exposed to water(obviously this would be ideal conditions for a water attracted product)and the way that contaminats work in water.on a car which would spend less time in contact with water(well not in this summer were having right now) a hydrophobic product would work best because it would be in its favoured conditions (water less),so rather than substituting the contaninant with water and leaving your paint with water marks (creating etching) it would actually reppel the water and the contaminant with it. 
In theory of course.


----------



## -Raven-

E38_ross said:


> We'll agree to disagree then. Hydrophilic by definition won't sheet water.


They sheet awesome. They just don't bead. :thumb:


----------



## E38_ross

-Raven- said:


> They sheet awesome. They just don't bead. :thumb:


how sure of that are you? i'm guessing not very. maybe you need to look up the definition of the suffix "-philic"


----------



## blake_jl

Everyone will be basing their opinion on what they have seen on their bonnet or someone else's bonnet. Not the definition found in the dictionary. Everyone knows what hydrophilic means.


----------



## -Raven-

E38_ross said:


> how sure of that are you? i'm guessing not very. maybe you need to look up the definition of the suffix "-philic"




Ever heard of self cleaning windows that use hydrophilic coatings to sheet water off?

Don't know why you are trying to argue? :wall:


----------



## slkman

Bit of a debate going on here! Been following this thread since it began lurking in the shadows. I haven't tried the product yet although I have used Gtechniq products in the past so my opinion may not be worth a lot on this but...

When I first saw the product advertised for sale I was initially very excited at an ultra durable coating that was so easy to use, almost a quick detailer in simplicity that I had to try! I balked at the price and thought lets see what other think.

After a few months now peoples views seem to picking up on the fact that this ins't a wax in simplicity but more a chemical bonded to the paint which changes characteristic over time. This I think it where the problem begins. Cleaning the car should always be a simple enjoyable process and I do wonder if this product is not for general use for a few simple reasons:

The coating suggests that it will last 2 years but is not scratch proof or protective in anyway from the physical touching of the surface, it's just a coating protecting from the elements. Now in my head that coating isn't going to last too long as I have two choices I either leave my car untouched for two years. Which means no washing, polishing, cleaning of any sort as wash marks which would mark the clear coat surely would destroying the EXO product (I'm sure you could last a long time just washing carefully but even the best will leave swirls after time, else we'd all sell our machine polishers) along with it and obviously polishing would be out the question for 2 years, but who would not want to polish the car for two years? It'd be rough and tired as your friends Nissan from 20 years ago.

The second option is to care for my car in a slightly less obsessive way and just wash carefully and thats it... No polishing. I maybe on my own here but I need to polish my car at very least once every 6months to keep me sane else the paintwork just starts to look like everyone else's and Im certain the same would be true with this product so it's only going to last me 6months... Which is fine but also where another problem steps in.

If I was to use this product and after a while the human detectable elements of the product stop working (beading) then in my very small brain I can't help but tell myself that something needs to be done to protect my car as I have no idea if I've washed / polished or worn the product away. But in probability it's most likely still that are I trust the manufacturer. But then I may well have just used a wax or sealant anyway as they do the same job.

In the future I may be swung to enjoy this type of product but until something like C1 can be quick detailed on outside round your mates house while having a beer I can't see this being much use for detailers as like I said above, your almost certainly going to have to give up what you enjoy doing to get the benefit of the long term protection.

Hopefully Gtechniq will continue to improve on these products as they do seem the future but I'm not sure everyone is ready to change there mindset - Just look at how long it took for people to get onto using two buckets.

Yes I went on a bit, but I think some of this is relevant in a simple term kind of way without all the science getting in the way of real world use of probably a great coating.


----------



## Gruffs

You talk a lot of sense.

My question is one above reversed.

Why is it that when a manufacturer (Who cannot legally lie to us) tells us something about a product, even provides pictographic and testing evidence of that (even some subjective third party evidence as well), do we still not accept that it is so?

It is right that we question the manufacturers. But when the questions are answered, it's a bit off to go "Nah, still don't believe you".

Or, worse still, change the question until you get to a performance extremity that the product can't cope with then say "see, told you so". which is effectively what you are doing by going up the chemical harshness scale.

Just stop and think what you are asking of the coating to survive not only chemical attack (some of which could be used as drain cleaner), but abrasive, thermal, UV and you want it to be transparent and have a specific behaviour to water as well. Which, lets be honest, you only overcome with other products through constant washing or stripping with harsh chemicals - (oh, the irony) and re-application.

I have to ask this one as well. If you are not getting the same results as the manufacturer (who cannot lie to you) claims, is it the product (which may have a very small application conditions envelope - admittedly) that is to blame? Or, is it that the conditions that the product was applied in didn't fall within this window (Hypothetical question BTW - before anyone gets the hump)?

Before we get all 'real world' responses, the real world is that these coatings have to be applied and cared for correctly to work. The exposure to conditions outside of application and care are wide and varied for every journey in every vehicle. It is the assumption that they can be treated the same as other products that is the fallacy.

I know from my own work, preparation and especially cleanliness are paramount to performance. These coatings are not like wax. Which is why C1 was unavailable to the public for such a long time. I understand that detailers are a little more exacting. But, are we exacting enough? How do we know?

I know that on my own car, i do not have the time or the talent to do full correction. Making EXO almost unusable for me. I need a filler heavy sealant (which is what i use).

Just for the record, my work is nothing to do with car paint or paint coatings. I do work in an industry that has to convince people that an alternative is better.

I'll give you an example. 

There is a speaker technology that looks just like a soundbar but is actually a phased array of speakers that 'projects' actual surround sound from a flat panel. It is actual surround sound. And, better than that, if the audio were encoded as such, it could project sound to your ear from any angle. True, all encompassing sound.

Yet, I guarantee, somebody with pipe up with "soundbars are pseudo surround, not real surround at all". :wall:

There have even been people sitting in the chair, listening to the surround sound, bullets and arrows flying past their ears, they've looked all around for surround speakers, seen none and still they are skeptical that it can be done.

Because they 'know' better. :wall:

When moving the game on, expectations and conventions need to be recalibrated and moved on to suit.

Plus, lets be honest here. EXO is primarily going to be used on cars covering hundreds of miles a year at most. On the sunniest days and cared for professionally.


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## Goodfella36

Gruffs said:


> You talk a lot of sense.
> 
> My question is one above reversed.
> 
> Why is it that when a manufacturer (Who cannot legally lie to us) tells us something about a product, even provides pictographic and testing evidence of that (even some subjective third party evidence as well), do we still not accept that it is so?
> 
> It is right that we question the manufacturers. But when the questions are answered, it's a bit off to go "Nah, still don't believe you".
> 
> Or, worse still, change the question until you get to a performance extremity that the product can't cope with then say "see, told you so". which is effectively what you are doing by going up the chemical harshness scale.
> 
> Just stop and think what you are asking of the coating to survive not only chemical attack (some of which could be used as drain cleaner), but abrasive, thermal, UV and you want it to be transparent and have a specific behaviour to water as well. Which, lets be honest, you only overcome with other products through constant washing or stripping with harsh chemicals - (oh, the irony) and re-application.
> 
> I have to ask this one as well. If you are not getting the same results as the manufacturer (who cannot lie to you) claims, is it the product (which may have a very small application conditions envelope - admittedly) that is to blame? Or, is it that the conditions that the product was applied in didn't fall within this window (Hypothetical question BTW - before anyone gets the hump)?
> 
> Before we get all 'real world' responses, the real world is that these coatings have to be applied and cared for correctly to work. The exposure to conditions outside of application and care are wide and varied for every journey in every vehicle. It is the assumption that they can be treated the same as other products that is the fallacy.
> 
> I know from my own work, preparation and especially cleanliness are paramount to performance. These coatings are not like wax. Which is why C1 was unavailable to the public for such a long time. I understand that detailers are a little more exacting. But, are we exacting enough? How do we know?
> 
> I know that on my own car, i do not have the time or the talent to do full correction. Making EXO almost unusable for me. I need a filler heavy sealant (which is what i use).
> 
> Just for the record, my work is nothing to do with car paint or paint coatings. I do work in an industry that has to convince people that an alternative is better.
> 
> I'll give you an example.
> 
> There is a speaker technology that looks just like a soundbar but is actually a phased array of speakers that 'projects' actual surround sound from a flat panel. It is actual surround sound. And, better than that, if the audio were encoded as such, it could project sound to your ear from any angle. True, all encompassing sound.
> 
> Yet, I guarantee, somebody with pipe up with "soundbars are pseudo surround, not real surround at all". :wall:
> 
> There have even been people sitting in the chair, listening to the surround sound, bullets and arrows flying past their ears, they've looked all around for surround speakers, seen none and still they are skeptical that it can be done.
> 
> Because they 'know' better. :wall:
> 
> When moving the game on, expectations and conventions need to be recalibrated and moved on to suit.
> 
> Plus, lets be honest here. EXO is primarily going to be used on cars covering hundreds of miles a year at most. On the sunniest days and cared for professionally.


Interesting words in fact some interesting debates going on

The reason I am doing this test is to know what I offer my customers is the best and how to look after these type of sealants in the best possible manner afterwards as you mentioned exo lets take exo as an example in this pdf.

http://gtechniq.com/downloads/EXO Presentation.pdf

It states 2-3 years Hydrophobic function this might be so with normal washing with mild shampoo now on own car 3 months in to test its full of sap etc that is not coming off with normal washing so I will have to use a chemical or clay but then chance of marring paint now as I have seen EXO loses its Hydrophobic function very quickly now if a customer has asked me to apply this to his car comes in and says car feeling rough etc the coating is gone after I use a chemical I won't have one very happy customer so these tests are needed as you say manufactures don't lie exo is rebadged can with new label as is known so are some of the other sealants on test I have discovered as far as manufactures not lying you might be right but the truth is defiantly exaggerated as in accelerated weather testing etc in labs it didn't match what was shown in fact the only company I have seen actually show any type of lab testing etc and not just some bits of paper are Cquartz.

As for hydrophilic there are some good videos about of these type of coatings that will show that it does still sheet water of the car some very slow but it still does it to me and the percentage of people out there when water lies still on a car does not sheet off even at slow speed or no beading then they will want to reapply some protection same goes for me.

These nano sealants well some like an apc wash as it does clean the upper surface this is the point I will try and show recently after hearing another well known detailer speak his exact words were he had thought the sealant he was testing had gone after 3 months he washed the car down with Iron X it come back alive this is the points I am trying to prove in other words trying to help others.

And you are right cleanliness is paramount to application also I have found the longer they stay dry the better after application even longer then the min the manufacture claims is not a bad thing remember a lot of these companies are resellers not manufactures they just do a nice form saying what the chaps in Korea china are telling them.

people can take my testing with a pinch of salt I really don't mind but I am not one to follow like a sheep I want to know the products work in as many situations as possible and how best to look after said products.

I must state once again EXO does have the great beading and sheeting of water while driving but in my mind like any product there are downsides I look at this product like the world's best quick detailer perfect for on top of a Ceramic/resin Sealant.

Right must get back to Discovery and Maserati I have in.


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## Gruffs

Indeed, i think we are working our way towards some kind of middle ground :thumb:

I feel i must stress though. I'm not trying to defend any product, only that a product should not be judged on it's performance in an arena that it is not designed to be in.

It would be like putting ASIMO in the Robot Wars final.

I'm also not trying to denounce anyone's abilities or tests either.


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## fishbonezken

Any EXO users here know if it has solved the water spotting problem that was apparent with C1 or C1+?


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## sm81

BespokeCarCare said:


> ok from left top
> 
> Cquartz but forget this one for moment please.
> EXO middle top
> Cquartz Finest top right
> 
> Middle row from left
> 
> Nanolex ultra
> G3 Glasscoat
> Max protect
> Ceramishield
> 
> Bottom row from left to right they do not go right to bottom of panel
> 
> Opti-Guard
> Opti-Coat 2.0
> Gtechniq C1+
> 
> If anyone has any questions please feel free i cant give all information i have gatherd yet as want to do it in set write up and still some testing to be done plus durabillity of sealants on car will take time but with a fair amount of fall out on car sap etc which normal washing is not removing chemcials are going to have to be used.


When you are going to reveal to us those test what have you done those coatings? I have considering Wolf's Hardbody, Cquartz or Ceramishield to my car. What are your thoughts for those? I want very good sheeting and self cleaning abilities and possible swirl resistance behavior with at least 12 months durability? Which you recommend?

Thanks.


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## lmorris

Hi all, i am no expert but to my mind you pay your money and make your choice. If you don't like the sound of EXO don't buy it, for me it is way to expensive for what it is and way to fussy to apply, just my thoughts :tumbleweed:


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## cheffi

Had sort of a disappointing experience today, seems like a eraser wipedown isn't the best idea...

got rid of dodo wax with strong wash, eraser and polished the hood with s17+.
Again Eraser wiped and exo on (car was in the sun, hood temp approx 40-50°C).
Thought it was fine, since nobody said anything about a max. applying temperature yet.

Applied it as the can said, sprayed onto mf, then like a qd.
Didn't feel slick at all.. got better after half an hour or so.
Next day it startet raining, looked like it worked fine, drops ran off quite nice.

Washed the car today (dodo sour power mixed with a bit of snow foam, then regular sour power wash)... next to nothing left of exo...

will do an eraser-free test when it stops raining...


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## Alan W

The ONLY product recommended for wiping down prior to applying Exo is panel wipe/silicon degreaser, nothing else is recommended.  This is stated on the Gtechniq website, but perhaps needs to be reinforced that other products are not suitable.

With regard to panel temperature I'm pretty sure Kelly has applied to panels at 35 deg. C and I've noted 40 deg. C has also been mentioned somewhere. I'm not aware of an upper limit or if testing has been done above these temperatures.

Hopefully you can redo using a panel wipe/silicon degreaser for the wipedown and find some shade to reduce the panel temperatures and all should be well.

Let us know how you get on. :thumb:

Alan W


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## chillly

some interesting views guys:thumb:


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## amiller

chillly said:


> some interesting views guys:thumb:


some interesting tags too.


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## CraigQQ

tags are a bit out of order to be fair..


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## Alan W

amiller said:


> some interesting tags too.


and you can't EDIT a couple of them that are locked! 

Strange goings on for sure! :lol:

Alan W


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## chillly

Alan W said:


> and you can't EDIT a couple of them that are locked!
> 
> Strange goings on for sure! :lol:
> 
> Alan W


Strange goings on whats this then Alan????????/


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## Gruffs

Also, sour power leaves a coating behind which will corrupt EXO.


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## Alan W

I wonder who has the authority to 'Lock' the Tags and why 'Max Protect' and 'Max Protect Coatings' are locked, and can't be edited, when this Thread is about Exo and has Exo in the title??????? 

If you did a search on 'Max Protect' it would find this Thread about Exo!!!!!!!  

Alan W


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## CraigQQ

someone has added them alan, only admin or the person who added them can remove them.


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## Ninja59

interesting thank you for the test videos so far.


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## cheffi

Alan W said:


> The ONLY product recommended for wiping down prior to applying Exo is panel wipe/silicon degreaser, nothing else is recommended.  This is stated on the Gtechniq website, but perhaps needs to be reinforced that other products are not suitable.
> 
> Hopefully you can redo using a panel wipe/silicon degreaser for the wipedown and find some shade to reduce the panel temperatures and all should be well.
> 
> Let us know how you get on. :thumb:
> 
> Alan W


will do. can you post a link about that information? seems i am very blind... didn't find any of it


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## Max Protect

Alan W said:


> I wonder who has the authority to 'Lock' the Tags and why 'Max Protect' and 'Max Protect Coatings' are locked, and can't be edited, when this Thread is about Exo and has Exo in the title???????
> 
> If you did a search on 'Max Protect' it would find this Thread about Exo!!!!!!!
> 
> Alan W


Max Protect is going side by side with exo in Lee's coating test, which was discussed in this thread earlier, so there's nothing out of order guys 

Keep the good info coming :buffer:

Janis


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## sm81

sm81 said:


> When you are going to reveal to us those test what have you done those coatings? I have considering Wolf's Hardbody, Cquartz or Ceramishield to my car. What are your thoughts for those? I want very good sheeting and self cleaning abilities and possible swirl resistance behavior with at least 12 months durability? Which you recommend?
> 
> Thanks.


Any thoughts please:wave:


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## Alan W

cheffi said:


> will do. can you post a link about that information? seems i am very blind... didn't find any of it


From the Gtechniq website and EXO product page:

Application instructions
Perfect the surface to be coated 
Degrease the surface using silicon remover (panel wipe) 
Ensure the surface is >20C prior to application 
For gloss or hard non absorbent matte surfaces spray product onto a MF1 cloth, spread, remove residue with a second MF1 cloth and repeat 20 minutes later to the same area
For absorbent finishes such as stone or fabric ensure surfaces are very dry and spray directly onto the surface using the mist setting ensuring full saturation 
Allow 48 hours for the coating to fully cure before wetting

Alan W


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## fethead

s.bailey said:


> Can someone please lock this thread!!! It's just an excuse for people to talk **** with no evidence of the **** they are saying. Plus it's boring. Thanks.


Don't read it then. It's your choice!

Everyone has a right to their opinion, on whatever evidence is presented to them. We may disagree with an opinion but we still aim to do the same thing...enjoy the detailing process and share our experience of products and techniques. That's the reason for the forum. If people or manufactures make claims about products, they must expect others to test the claim and either validate it or not.

Richard


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## Alan W

'turtle wax is best' :lol:

Nice one! :thumb:

Alan W


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## s.bailey

fethead said:


> Don't read it then. It's your choice!
> 
> Everyone has a right to their opinion, on whatever evidence is presented to them. We may disagree with an opinion but we still aim to do the same thing...enjoy the detailing process and share our experience of products and techniques. That's the reason for the forum. If people or manufactures make claims about products, they must expect others to test the claim and either validate it or not.
> 
> Richard


:wall:
Finger on the pulse there I see!!!


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## chillly

So guys whos has bought EXO ??


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## Alan W

chillly said:


> So guys whos has bought EXO ??


I have been playing with Exo for a while now and hope to post up a Thread over the weekend. 

Alan W

EDIT: Thread now posted HERE.


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## sm81

sm81 said:


> Any thoughts please:wave:


Any comments?


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## Alan W

sm81 said:


> Any comments?


Did you read my Showroom post in the link above?

Alan W


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## sm81

sm81 said:


> When you are going to reveal to us those test what have you done those coatings? I have considering Wolf's Hardbody, Cquartz or Ceramishield to my car. What are your thoughts for those? I want very good sheeting and self cleaning abilities and possible swirl resistance behavior with at least 12 months durability? Which you recommend?
> 
> Thanks.


Any new information or videos Besboke carCare?


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## Goodfella36

sm81 said:


> Any new information or videos Besboke carCare?


The chemical testing ones are all up on my youtube channel one more i want to do and trying to find the time to give my own car a wash to see how that is doing so then can get full write up done but work last few weeks has been none stop


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