# Why do people talk so much Bull



## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Ok this is not teh first post this week where i have look and thought to my self i know they did not spend that much time on that due to many reasons, the latest one http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=89434

And his PB account, you can clearly see he spent 4 hours on it tops  not that thats a bad thing but why come on here and bull sh!t people, i can look at those pics and think [email protected] me the floors still wet after 7-8 hours :lol:

The guys PB account

http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd142/cupraRcleanR/?start=20

another one is the guy who recons he spent 18 hours on his car and now gets paying jobs, his where timed 3 hours apart and he even drove to a location for the finished pics :lol:


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## IdealShine (Aug 11, 2008)

Just plain pisses me off tbh.

Some little wannbes post up there crap and get lots of "good work", "great job" posts when they post up this rubbish.

And then there people like me who genuinely work there **** off and get hardly any comments.

Utter f**ks me off.


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## The Detail Doctor (Feb 22, 2008)

And he left is brushes in the gravel:doublesho


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

I thought the exact same thing with the Merc James and i'm sure alot of other people thought the same too. I Guarantee there's alot of people sitting asking the same questions, whether they're members or "lurkers" 


It used to annoy me as i thought it was just me, but i'm pretty sure we're all thinking the same things half the time :lol:


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## SimonW (Jun 3, 2007)

IdealShine said:


> And then there people like me who genuinely work there **** off and get hardly any comments.


But its not comments thats important, its views :thumb: But i understand what you mean


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

I think we should start a spot the bull sh!t post my self, that would be fun



IdealShine said:


> Just plain pisses me off tbh.
> 
> Some little wannbes post up there crap and get lots of "good work", "great job" posts when they post up this rubbish.
> 
> ...


You got to build rep mate before you get recognition and you got to go above and beyond before people will actualy take notice of you, i dont get that many post on my write ups i think some of it is down to the fact i have pi$$ed alot of people off with my straight talking (ie if there talking sh!t i used to tell them straight now i just log off and leave them to there deluded little life) but i get a lot of views and lots of posts on some OTHER  forums :thumb: this forum IMO is the worst for eaningless posts, GEAT WORK, NICE REFLECTIONS etc, to be fair i would rather they did not bother, but i do see the other side of it, they want to show they have looked and taken note and there aint that much new stuff you can say about another shiny car, i do have (when i finally get around to it and complet it) a 100hour detail to do (yep 100 man hours labour on ONE CAR!) to post up and if that dont get 50+ replys i know people think im a **** for sure lol


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## The Detail Doctor (Feb 22, 2008)

james b said:


> You got to build rep mate before you get recognition and you got to go above and beyond before people will actualy take notice of you


That's my aim currently.

Happy customers first, money second currently.


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

James - I could tell you you're a C*nt without looking at any of your bloody pics :wave:


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

not sure if that was another one that got away , the mini you refered to me james that went as well lol


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## *MAGIC* (Feb 22, 2007)

Clark said:


> James - I could tell you you're a C*nt without looking at any of your bloody pics :wave:


PMSL :lol:


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Clark said:


> James - I could tell you you're a C*nt without looking at any of your bloody pics :wave:


HA HA Funny


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## Rich @ PB (Oct 26, 2005)

Lol, you can give him an ear bashing in the morning when he calls you back; I'm off on hols today for a few days, and didn't get chance to call you back yesterday afternoon (sorry). I've just read the linked thread at the start, and see that it has now been embellished with regard to lighting... correcting to direct sun or even halogen standards is easy enough, but to get perfection under a Sun Gun is a different matter (I have yet to come across marring highlighted by the sun or halogens that does not show up under the Sun Gun, whereas I regularly see marring that is invisible in the sun or under halogens but shown up by the Sun Gun?). Hence why we take so bloody long on our details!


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

^^ Smash your sun gun up then that will solve that one LOL

I know what your saying I was really not keen on my sun gun when i got it, but now i quite like it, i need to get me another battery for it tho.


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Well I just asked him to explain himself. lol!


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

How do you know what time the pics were taken at? As you can guess, i know sod all about computers


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## Finerdetails (Apr 30, 2006)

hate to say it, but this is why my posts are low at the mo....


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Clark said:


> How do you know what time the pics were taken at? As you can guess, i know sod all about computers


Cos I'm clever. 

Look at his reply!!


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## Big T (Mar 20, 2007)

Clark said:


> How do you know what time the pics were taken at? As you can guess, i know sod all about computers


If you right click on a picture and select Properties, you can get the date, time and even the model of camera used. I think Photobucket puts this info up too.


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Clark said:


> How do you know what time the pics were taken at? As you can guess, i know sod all about computers


But the real answer is... all photos taken with a digital camera store, with the picture, what's called exif information. In that exif snippet, you can tell a lot about the picture, including what date and time it was taken. The picture he took, I got this from:

Equipment Make:	FUJIFILM
Camera Model:	FinePix S9500
Camera Software:	Digital Camera FinePix S9500 Ver1.02
Maximum Lens Aperture:	f/2.8
Sensing Method:	One-Chip Color Area
Maker Note Version:	0130

Image-Specific Properties:

Image Orientation:	Top, Left-Hand
Horizontal Resolution:	72 dpi
Vertical Resolution:	72 dpi
Image Created:	2008:10:15 14:55:42
Exposure Time:	1/500 sec
F-Number:	f/2.8
Exposure Program:	Normal Program
ISO Speed Rating:	100
Lens Aperture:	f/2.8
Brightness:	7.8 EV
Exposure Bias:	0 EV
Metering Mode:	Pattern
Light Source:	Unknown
Flash:	No Flash, Compulsory
Focal Length:	6.20 mm
Color Space Information:	sRGB
Image Width:	3488
Image Height:	2616
Rendering:	Normal
Exposure Mode:	Auto
White Balance:	Auto
Scene Capture Type:	Standard
Contrast:	Normal
Saturation:	Normal
Sharpness:	Normal
Subject Distance Range:	Unknown
Sharpness:	Normal
White Balance:	Auto
Chroma Saturation:	Normal
Flash Mode:	Off
Macro Mode:	Off
Focus Mode:	Auto
Slow Synchro Mode:	Off
Picture Mode:	Unknown
Continuous/Bracketing Mode:	Off
Blur Status:	OK
Focus Status:	OK
Auto Exposure Status:	OK


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## IdealShine (Aug 11, 2008)

nerd!!!! lol


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

I used to be a mod on a photography forum, and you would get some noobs saying 'what do you think of this picture? I took it with a point and click and worked really hard to get the exposure and f stop right.' A quick check of the exif revealed he actually took it with a top of the range Canon 1d, hence why it looked so good. We used to shoot them down something chronic. Honestly, this forum is so timid on the ones who speak poo. Apart, maybe, from Gav.


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## Big T (Mar 20, 2007)

Wonderdetail said:


> Look at his reply!!


Apparently you are a watch


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Big T said:


> Apparently you are a watch


I looked at his reply, and just said, eh?? I think that's got to be the winner for the most useless way to get yourself out of a lie. I mean, he could have just said the clock on his camera was duff! People don't realise it get's dark early now too. A sure sign that they've not spent much time on it.

I reckon at best he's HD cleansed it.


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## IdealShine (Aug 11, 2008)

Paul - slightly off topic here, but what forum was that? Ive got a 450D (my first DSLR) and would love to learn how to use it properly LOL!


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

s5000.net chap. I didn't go on for ages, as I gave up photography and when I went back on they had removed me from the mod list!


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Wonderdetail said:


> But the real answer is... all photos taken with a digital camera store, with the picture, what's called exif information. In that exif snippet, you can tell a lot about the picture, including what date and time it was taken. The picture he took, I got this from:
> 
> Equipment Make:	FUJIFILM
> Camera Model:	FinePix S9500
> ...


No way, that's ace!


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

i can see why the thread got "modded", but dont you think as soon as someone who's being paid for their work - enthusiast or not - starts posting work, they are fair game? its not as if it was someone being pedantic.

people wouldn't think twice about doing it to an advertising "pro".....

i know theres all the "concentrate on your own work" stuff, but some do take the p*ss a bit - some a lot!


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

In The Detail said:


> i can see why the thread got "modded", but dont you think as soon as someone who's being paid for their work - enthusiast or not - starts posting work, they are fair game? its not as if it was someone being pedantic.
> 
> people wouldn't think twice about doing it to an advertising "pro".....
> 
> i know theres all the "concentrate on your own work" stuff, but some do take the p*ss a bit - some a lot!


Totally Agree.


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

i didnt reply in the thread as hes only a few miles up the road , i might even of had an e mail enquiry for it , but at the end of the day one word justification , thats why he said what he did , and yes hes putting himself about, so needs to be seen to be giving value = time = whatever he got paid.
agree mate thats two jobs gone in a week that would of put money on my table, only they have a cushy 9-5 to pay their bills


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

nice to see all my posts got scraped just cos I got the front to tell it how it is, so are we all ment to bow down and be nice to people who come on here and lie to all the members?


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Gents - suggest a chill pill is popped. That thread doesn't knacker any of your businesses, does it? Therefore no need to go all Refined Reflections on his ar5e :thumb:

Plus it gives that little turd rmorgan another chance to stir it up - you really want to be seen as being at his level? Your choice but that's why I rarely rise to the cr*p he spouts in public - makes me no better than him


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## PETER @ ECLIPSE (Apr 19, 2006)

see my edit


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

I dunno what happened there.Technically I didn't even accuse him of lying! I just said I was confused that he said he machined the car for 6 hours, yet he started at 11:45 am and was done by 2:55. When he replied back with the seiko comment, people went down on my ass! I never get riled by people/things, but now I'm thinking what's the point in ever speaking up on here! Dave KG commented saying the showroom was all about ams doing their own cars etc etc, but it's totally clear he did that for wonga, so I called his bluff. If he was doing his own car I couldn't have given a chuff. 

Andy - this does affect our business, whether you want to try and raise above it or not. Plain fact is, I lose work to weekenders who do people's cars for next to nowt and don't do a proper job. That's a days work where I don't get any money, nothing. The whole argument of that's not the type of customer you want is all good and well, but at the end of the day, any business needs any customers it can get as long as they pay! 

But lesson learned from me. I'm just going to let things pass by - stuff em! And I know where DW clearly stands in exposing people who are a) using DW as an advertising platform without paying, and b) lying about their standard of work in order to make themselves look better than they are.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

james b said:


> nice to see all my posts got scraped just cos I got the front to tell it how it is, so are we all ment to bow down and be nice to people who come on here and lie to all the members?


kinda what i thought mate.

I'm quite hacked off at dave an bryan constantly posting work with there unit involved it doesnt take a scientist to work out that thats were they are doing paid work from im not one to mince my words and i'll say what needs saying.

Anyone else doing the same would be flamed in an instant.

The old one rule for one and one for another.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=89403

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=89086

An Bill if you see this i'm going to try give you a call at lunchtime tomorrow


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Custom Detailers said:


> kinda what i thought mate.
> 
> I'm quite hacked off at dave an bryan constantly posting work with there unit involved it doesnt take a scientist to work out that thats were they are doing paid work from im not one to mince my words and i'll say what needs saying.
> 
> ...


If the general concensus is that people would like me to stop posting my work (lets face it, a unit cant exactly be blanked from photographs) then so be it, I can quite easily stop posting details up...

Lest we not forget however that The Showroom has always been for enthusiasts to post there work so long as they are not advertising and at no point in my threads do I see me posting advertising... the unit, as you have seen Graham, is a big shed and not that it is anybody's buisness, my interest in that unit has been for the storage of scrap cars for detailing testing and my own relaxation. Yes, I do details out there from time to time, and I like to post them in posts which are hopefully helping others to understand techniques rather than a simple advert of here's what I can do... combined with using the space for teaching others how to detail there own cars.

But if the concensus is for me to stop posting, so be it.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Dave you question and pick apart any thing any reputable pro says and then side up with all the guys who kick off the US AND THEM threads, you dont understand the fact that 50% of the cars showen (including that Merc) are posted by people doing this as a job there not Ams they are doing this day in day out and IMO if you Bull sh!t people then it should be pointed out, i would have alot more respect for the guy if he said "only had half a day to spend on it and here is what i achieved"


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

I gotta agree with James on this Dave. I do find that pretty much every post I put is contested by you, and while I think it's a good thing to put an opinion across, I do this day in day out, and it's my living, so anything I say is based on pure experience, not theory.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

I doubt many are doing it day in, day out - I certainly am not, and a number of the details I do (including the BMW linked to above) and *completely unpaid* to me, in common with any meets I travel to because I detail for the joy of it (to me, its harder I imagine to see something as a joy when its you 9 - 5).

I also view my posts as being very balanced on the whole, whenever the "Us and Them" (and those in the middle) threads kick off, I can take the time to examine my posts but I dont see any real point in that... As for picking apart, can you cite examples of this and where I have focussed on business detailers specifically? I will question anything I view to be incorrect, and share my opinion with my reasoning behind it, and can recall questioning paid up and non paid up members alike...


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Wonderdetail said:


> I gotta agree with James on this Dave. I do find that pretty much every post I put is contested by you, and while I think it's a good thing to put an opinion across, I do this day in day out, and it's my living, so anything I say is based on pure experience, not theory.


Much of what I say is also not based on theory, and while I dont do it day in day out, I spend a large amount of time "on the paint" testing out what I believe from theory... that I back up my opinions with theory should in no way be devalued, that I say my thoughts and they dont always agree with everyone else doesn't make me wrong, nor does it make me right. In many cases, the answer boils down to opinion (take the sponges for example), though I post my opinion and back it with my thoughts - nothing wrong with that IMHO.

Are you essentially telling me that you are right and I am wrong because this is your job and it is not mine?


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

At the end of the day Dave that guy came on here and made up some bullsh!t story about the work he carried out on that car and you made a mug of your self defending him

Thats how it looked from where im standing any way, no wonder you thanked who ever moderated that thread :lol::wave:


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Let us be frank and honest here guys, put your cards on the table and speak your mind - its hidden away in here, not as if the Dave KG fan club many seem to think I have can start standing up to defend me... if you have a problem with the way I post my details, and they way I discuss my opinion and the way I back up my opinion with what I have spent time thinking about and experimenting with, the speak up and I'll see if I can deal with these issues.

I dont go out to start a fight, I defend my opinions strongly but that is because that is how I have been taught - my day to day job is a harsh place when it comes to defending your work and opinions and sometimes this may carry into my posts, who knows. I also dont go out to make enemies, so if you have issue with me its best you let me know such that I can do something about it.


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

james b said:


> Dave you question and pick apart any thing any reputable pro says and then side up with all the guys who kick off the US AND THEM threads, you dont understand the fact that 50% of the cars showen (including that Merc) are posted by people doing this as a job there not Ams they are doing this day in day out


Trying not to get involved as I said my piece the other night, but as quoted,

*It also appears that there are a lot in the showroom that are doing it as a living and posting up high end vehicles every few days but without actually mentioning client etc... there not deemed to be advertising? I know this is difficult to moderate but it drives me loopy and I know it shouldn't bother me in the slightest as it doesn't really affect me.*

Always happy to offer help and advice where I can to either Pro or hobbyist but I'm sure if myself or any of the supporters were to post work and leave out a detail or miss a bit, it would soon be picked upon and scrutinised.
Not interested in the usual them and us, and will continue to praise good work where it's due and offer advice, but those clearly doing for money should be open to scrutiny in a professional manner.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

james b said:


> At the end of the day Dave that guy came on here and made up some bullsh!t story about the work he carried out on that car and you made a mug of your self defending him.
> 
> Thats how it looked from where im standing any way


And from where I am standing, that two professionals took time to investigate this rather than focussing on their own business looked childish and horrificly unprofessional - my take on it, and if I made a mug of myself by defending what I believe is right, so be it. I stand by my views.


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> I doubt many are doing it day in, day out


that's probably true, but it's the few that are that are getting people's backs up!


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

*The Current Rules*

*DW Supporter. *


A DW Supporter has paid a subscription to carry a signature linking to their valeting or detailing website NB this does not include retail sales. The DW Supporter can also carry their link in their profile. Again this subscription can be found in the user control panel in your user profile. 
The DW Supporter can also change their username to reflect their valeting/detailing business. New Members to detailing world can no longer register with a business name. Older members who joined with a business name have been allowed to keep them - call it Grandfather rights but you have to draw a line in the sand at some point!

Given that a DW Supporter pays for these advertising rights other members will not be allowed to advertise their 'paid' services either through their profiles or through posting in topics where persons have requested a recommended detailer.

Now I am not suggesting the rules are perfect and yes many do 'bend' them but since July these have been the rules we have worked to. Dave has not broken these rules as far as I am concerned.

And as for Daves experience well he's been doing it longer than most in this section and perhaps more importantly he has the time to experiment and that is where you can really learn things!

I have had such time to experiment and I have also detailed day in/day out, the latter simply makes you faster!


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Dave i aint got a problem with you but you seem to be on a mission to look after the ammeter rep, and really your sticking up for full timer wanabies LOL

Its your call, your tests and stuff are pretty cool, you do seem to test products not from a "whats trendy" point of view, but you also do seem to give fuel to the guys who love the US and THEM thing, and why did you defend some one who came on here lying ?????? WHY? i really dont see how it is me thats out of order for pointing it out???


But i still say this thread i started is pretty dam cool


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Dave KG said:


> Much of what I say is also not based on theory, and while I dont do it day in day out, I spend a large amount of time "on the paint" testing out what I believe from theory... that I back up my opinions with theory should in no way be devalued, that I say my thoughts and they dont always agree with everyone else doesn't make me wrong, nor does it make me right. In many cases, the answer boils down to opinion (take the sponges for example), though I post my opinion and back it with my thoughts - nothing wrong with that IMHO.
> 
> Are you essentially telling me that you are right and I am wrong because this is your job and it is not mine?


No Dave, not at all. Hence why I have never contested any posts you've made.

I'm bowing out of this one chaps. I've expressed an opinion and I'm not going to sit and argue. Nuff said, as James would say!


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

i dont think anyone's (well, ok maybe one!) has a prob with Dave's details...


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> And from where I am standing, that two professionals took time to investigate this rather than focussing on their own business looked childish and horrificly unprofessional - my take on it, and if I made a mug of myself by defending what I believe is right, so be it. I stand by my views.


unprofessional to who a bunch of other detailers, my work dont come from DW :lol:

Not really mate i had a look at that post and my experience made me think that was not what he said it was, a simple click of a pic told me all i needed to know it was not really that hard  and the guy was talking a load of old sh!t, end of, job done

I think you just dont like it when your wrong Dave :wave:


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## alanjo99 (Nov 22, 2007)

On a more humane note 

question - the 'Exif's' how do you find this off an photobucket picture ?

There is some useful info on their , and my photography is $hite !

I have tried looking in properties etc but can't see anything - can anyone shed some light please..

TIA


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

james b said:


> unprofessional to who a bunch of other detailers, my work dont come from DW :lol:
> 
> Not really mate i had a look at that post and my experience made me think that was not what he said it was, a simple click of a pic told me all i needed to know it was not really that hard  and the guy was talking a load of old sh!t, end of, job done
> 
> I think you just dont like it when your wrong Dave :wave:


I'm frequently wrong, part of doing a PhD, and it bothers me not 

When I read Wonder's post, it looked quite simply like a cheap and unprofessional jibe at trying to find flaw in another person's work? Why? It gives off an impression of feeling threatened. Now, if your work doesn't come from DW, then you wont care about what's posted in the Showroom, in which case why bother trying to stir something? Whether or not you look unprofessional or I am wrong is in this case a matter of opinion - one could vote on it, but that would be pointless...

When I joined DW, this sort of behaviour in the then "Show It Off" section was totally unheard of. Now you and I both know you cannot correct an E-class in 3 hours, 6 hours, or hell not even 9 hours in many cases - sometimes a simple Astra will take me two days. But at the end of the day, why didn't you just post - "how could you achieve correction in that space of time, I typically find Merc paint hard and takes several more hours?" It would throw the work straight into question without needing be use thinly veiled questions that do I'm afraid, look unprofessional - certainly in my opinion and that of my colleagues sitting in the office right now who's opinion I have seeked.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

The reason i did not post it like that is cos i dont feel i should have to sugar coat it for bullsh!ters, nor should any one else..........

Simple


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

no-ones at it in the showroom..... LOL!

Edit..... Mark's just trying to make me look silly(er!)


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

james b said:


> The reason i did not post it like that is cos i dont feel i should have to sugar coat it for bullsh!ters, nor should any one else..........
> 
> Simple


We are thus both slightly different in this respect - I approach "bull****" in a different way - I wouldn't describe my wording as sugar coating either, but rather challenging through questioning which gives the person a chance to respond but if they have bulll****ted they will quickly falter under questioning. Its how I work day in day out in research, I'd be laughed out of a seminar if I challenged someone in a manner as was used in that forum, but to challenge by well placed questions frequently yields the same result without looking unprofessional.


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> you cannot correct an E-class - or hell not even 9 hours in many cases .


Why not?? Pretty confident I could do and have corrected an average swirled e-class or similar in a day many times over. 
Slightly of topic but it seems lately that unless your spending 2-3 days correcting your not releasing high end work to 97% + correction.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Gleammachine said:


> Why not?? Pretty confident I could do and have corrected an average swirled e-class or similar in a day many times over.
> Slightly of topic but it seems lately that unless your spending 2-3 days correcting your not releasing high end work to 97% + correction.


Note the use of "in many cases". And you could very well open a can of worms on levels of correction and should we really all be going for 100% and as I've posted in open forum, I dont believe this should be the aim.

But I digress, back on topic. 9 hours to wash, thoroughly clay (which I have seen take several hours alone), machine polish in the case of using a compound followed by a finishing polish, cleanse the paint and then wax - that is tight going, 9 hours sounds a lot and while I dont doubt your work, I know from my experience how quickly that time can run away from you... If you can get away with one hit of Intensive Polish then yes, 9 hours is perfectly feasible - what if you want to spend time with Final Finish gunning for as clear and deep a finish as possible? Perhaps you could be pissing into the wind and be achieving nothing, or perhaps you're getting that little extra (not correction wise) from the finish that is worth spending the extra three to four hours on... I err on the latter side, but have the comfort to do so and do appreciate the time is money part of detailing as well.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

i think you would find it hard to clean, clay, correct, Finish, cleanse, wax and do the interior and all the finishing bits on a 5 year old averagely swirled merc C class in 9 hours sorry but not to a decent standard, it takes me just short of that to do a proper job of a protection detail



Dave KG said:


> We are thus both slightly different in this respect - I approach "bull****" in a different way - I wouldn't describe my wording as sugar coating either, but rather challenging through questioning which gives the person a chance to respond but if they have bulll****ted they will quickly falter under questioning. Its how I work day in day out in research, I'd be laughed out of a seminar if I challenged someone in a manner as was used in that forum, but to challenge by well placed questions frequently yields the same result without looking unprofessional.


Dave me and you are nothing alike, Lets leave it at that,

At the end of this whole thing i was right the guy was talking sh!t, yet we are not aloud to tell them we are only aloud to say "great reflections mate"


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## Rich @ PB (Oct 26, 2005)

The issues raised today are fundamentally important to the good name of detailing that many of us have worked our rear ends off to establish over the last 2-3 years. As such I have numerous pertinent points to raise, which I will do when I return to work next week. For now though, I'll end on this question: why does anyone not paying subs or only detailing for pleasure have access to this section? Surely this section should be for DW supporters only, otherwise aren't non-players getting unfair fringe benefits?


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

WX51 TXR said:


> The issues raised today are fundamentally important to the good name of detailing that many of us have worked our rear ends off to establish over the last 2-3 years. As such I have numerous pertinent points to raise, which I will do when I return to work next week. For now though, I'll end on this question: why does anyone not paying subs or only detailing for pleasure have access to this section? Surely this section should be for DW supporters only, otherwise aren't non-players getting unfair fringe benefits?


I believe I am one of the few, if not the only non-payer in here apart from the moderators who have every right to be in here, no? Thus I am getting unfair fringe benefits, though I'm unsure as to the use I am putting them too 

Though I will add here also, if folk feel I should not be in this section, then if that's general consensus perhaps the mods should remove this privaledge from my account - if they could wait until I've cleared my PM box of help requests though, please.


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

james b said:


> Dave me and you are nothing alike, Lets leave it at that,
> 
> At the end of this whole thing i was right the guy was talking sh!t, yet we are not aloud to tell them we are only aloud to say "great reflections mate"


James you sound like Gary, you are allowed to tell them its not a great job, you don't have to say Great reflections.

You do however have to be civil


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

It could get a whole lot worse :devil: but i like mingling with you muppets :lol: 

Do you not see my point tho ?? why lie about the time spent and give it ooooh spent a long hard day grafting on this today


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

WX51 TXR said:


> The issues raised today are fundamentally important to the good name of detailing that many of us have worked our rear ends off to establish over the last 2-3 years. As such I have numerous pertinent points to raise, which I will do when I return to work next week. For now though, I'll end on this question: why does anyone not paying subs or only detailing for pleasure have access to this section? Surely this section should be for DW supporters only, otherwise aren't non-players getting unfair fringe benefits?


Question answered?

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=64520&highlight=Dave


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

james b said:


> Do you not see my point tho ?? why lie about the time spent and give it ooooh spent a long hard day grafting on this today


Absolutely!!!


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## *MAGIC* (Feb 22, 2007)

Dam you B1tches all got pmt or what PMSL :lol:


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Valet Magic said:


> Dam you B1tches all got pmt or what PMSL :lol:


Particularly bad this month


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> Note the use of "in many cases". And you could very well open a can of worms on levels of correction and should we really all be going for 100% and as I've posted in open forum, I dont believe this should be the aim.
> 
> But I digress, back on topic. 9 hours to wash, thoroughly clay (which I have seen take several hours alone), machine polish in the case of using a compound followed by a finishing polish, cleanse the paint and then wax - that is tight going, 9 hours sounds a lot and while I dont doubt your work, I know from my experience how quickly that time can run away from you... If you can get away with one hit of Intensive Polish then yes, 9 hours is perfectly feasible - what if you want to spend time with Final Finish gunning for as clear and deep a finish as possible? Perhaps you could be pissing into the wind and be achieving nothing, or perhaps you're getting that little extra (not correction wise) from the finish that is worth spending the extra three to four hours on... I err on the latter side, but have the comfort to do so and do appreciate the time is money part of detailing as well.


Agree on the 1st part of 100% but not going into it now as it will start all sorts,

If the client required an average swirled lets say med sized vehicle corrected and would only grant you the day for whatever reason (work limitations etc), then obviously it would be explained whats possible but that's not to say any less effort would be placed on correction and finishing to the highest % possible often 96%+. The process I would then choose would be to go with a combo first that I know would finish down to almost LSP ready, if successful all's well and good, if not then obviously further action is taken and followed up with a finishing polish until I'm satisfied I've achieved the best possible results.
Understandably this isn't always the most convenient situation and can involve a huge amount of stress and working late, often not stopping for more than a quick *** break etc, but many of the time consuming processes ie, wash, alloys, shuts, de-contamination are now of to a fine patter without compromise.
Anyone thats mobile will have been there and have been in the same situation.
Granted where possible if the vehicle can be dropped of for a couple of days then this is a huge bonus and does make all of the above far less stressful, until the unit comes next year then I will continue to bust my balls in this manner.
Please by no means don't see this as me defending my work but trying to offer an insight.


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## Rich @ PB (Oct 26, 2005)

Brazo said:


> Question answered?
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=64520&highlight=Dave


Yes and no! I'll return to it next week.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

WX51 TXR said:


> Yes and no! I'll return to it next week.


Will be interested thus to hear your point of view on this one Rich, clearly you have a bone of contention about my presence here.


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

You dont have to defend your work mate. I think that's one clear thing from all this - no one is slating anyone else's work.

My opinion though is that if someone is only going to entitle you one day to machine the car as well as carry out all the other tasks then they can either have it glazed or they can get lost. Myself and Rich have done it in the past, whether it be 12 or 14 hours with the two of us working on the car etc and it eventually gets to you, mentally and physically. That's largely the reason we quote the times we do at this present time.

I mean , yesterday - I only just managed to get a protection detail done on an RS4 avant in 8 hours and I wasnt exactly hanging about


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Clark said:


> You dont have to defend your work mate. I think that's one clear thing from all this - no one is slating anyone else's work.
> 
> My opinion though is that if someone is only going to entitle you one day to machine the car as well as carry out all the other tasks then they can either have it glazed or they can get lost. Myself and Rich have done it in the past, whether it be 12 or 14 hours with the two of us working on the car etc and it eventually gets to you, mentally and physically. That's largely the reason we quote the times we do at this present time.
> 
> I mean , yesterday - I only just managed to get a protection detail done on an RS4 avant in 8 hours and I wasnt exactly hanging about


That was in response to Gleammachine ^^


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

96%+ in what 5-6hours if that on correction sorry Rob i still disagree there is no way, i struggle to get that i a full day or two correcting alone, i know what your saying about people not wanting to pay or not having the time but those clients are offered 2 options, correction detail 2-3 days or if it need to be a days work enchantment what means one hit with IP what comes out comes out what dont, dont, its just to brighten up the appearance of the paint work and restore some gloss.

I would never put my name to a correction detail that is not to the full extent i could get it too

This is not knocking yours or any ones work its just my view, correction should eaither be done right or not bother at all,


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

james b said:


> 96%+ in what 5-6hours if that on correction sorry Rob i still disagree there is no way, i struggle to get that i a full day or two correcting alone, i know what your saying about people not wanting to pay or not having the time but those clients are offered 2 options, correction detail 2-3 days or if it need to be a days work enchantment what means one hit with IP what comes out comes out what dont, dont, its just to brighten up the appearance of the paint work and restore some gloss.
> 
> I would never put my name to a correction detail that is not to the full extent i could get it too
> 
> This is not knocking yours or any ones work its just my view, correction should eaither be done right or not bother at all,


I must say, of all the services I offer, even naked detailing, I aint ever offered to enchant someone.


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

haha I had to read James' post again to get that!


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Look back the [email protected] up off my spelling ok LOL, you know what i ment, if not ask your misses  LOL


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Clark said:


> You dont have to defend your work mate. I think that's one clear thing from all this - no one is slating anyone else's work.
> 
> My opinion though is that if someone is only going to entitle you one day to machine the car as well as carry out all the other tasks then they can either have it glazed or they can get lost. Myself and Rich have done it in the past, whether it be 12 or 14 hours with the two of us working on the car etc and it eventually gets to you, mentally and physically. That's largely the reason we quote the times we do at this present time.


I know what your saying mate, and trust me when I say if I could afford to be in the position of requiring 2 + days on all correctional work or refuse it I would, if it was just for the sake of my sanity.



james b said:


> 96%+ in what 5-6hours if that on correction sorry Rob i still disagree there is no way, i struggle to get that i a full day or two correcting alone, i know what your saying about people not wanting to pay or not having the time but those clients are offered 2 options, correction detail 2-3 days or if it need to be a days work enchantment what means one hit with IP what comes out comes out what dont, dont, its just to brighten up the appearance of the paint work and restore some gloss.
> 
> I would never put my name to a correction detail that is not to the full extent i could get it too
> 
> This is not knocking yours or any ones work its just my view, correction should eaither be done right or not bother at all,


A bit more than 5-6 hrs correcting mate, but I can assure you it's achieved unless they are completely wrecked and need some real intensive correction and then I would sell them an enhancement or require further days.
I wouldn't take a correction detail on and state it in my studio posts unless I could achieve it as it's my reputation that would suffer of which I've worked hard to achieve.
Not giving it a mines bigger than yours, but I've done enough of these over the years and quite a few for people of DW and if I was producing sub standard corrections that aren't to their full potential then I'm sure it would have been evident by now.


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

james b said:


> Look back the [email protected] up off my spelling ok LOL, you know what i ment, if not ask your misses  LOL


I think you just turned this thread round mate from being a whingy ***** fest to properly hilarious.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

^^ see every time we talk about whats doable you go on a defensive, when no ones accusing or saying any thing about your work you jump off on on defending it, i have seen your work and iv read alot of you posts the work looks to be good but i just dont see how you could do all of whats stated in 9 hours, wash, clean ie door shuts, arches, wheels, clay, correct, finish, wax/seal, do an interior and the finishing bits, i to have done a fair share of cars and i know what goes in to them and IMO 9 hours is just not enough to do a proper correction detail, sorry Rob, maybe 12-14 at a push for exterior only il grant you that.


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## IdealShine (Aug 11, 2008)

*pops in to see thread updates and runs away...*


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

james b said:


> ^^ see every time we talk about whats doable you go on a defensive, when no ones accusing or saying any thing about your work you jump off on on defending it, i have seen your work and iv read alot of you posts the work looks to be good but i just dont see how you could do all of whats stated in 9 hours, wash, clean ie door shuts, arches, wheels, clay, correct, finish, wax/seal, do an interior and the finishing bits, i to have done a fair share of cars and i know what goes in to them and IMO 9 hours is just not enough to do a proper correction detail, sorry Rob, maybe 12-14 at a push for exterior only il grant you that.


I'm not going on the defensive James but I will hold my own if I know what I can do and someone is pretty much disputing it, perhaps I should have explained in the reply to Dave KG *9 + hours *but never edited his original comment and was only trying to give an insight of. I also wouldn't take on an interior in a days correction it's not feasible other than a hoover to the drivers mat and this is only usually done whilst dusting down some of the crevices and as a courtesy job. As you can appreciate some paints and cars are easier than others, granted it would be a struggle on most VAG paints but then again I've not done too many of these.
I'm sorry if it came across as me being defensive but I take a great deal of pride in my standard of work and what strives me on is not the customer or anyone else but my own critisism.
I am usually pretty laid back but there seems to be a lot of emphasis of late that if your not doing it this way then you can't be doing it right or perhaps I just have superpowers.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Lets do what we did before and once again agree to disagree, you seem to think iv not detailed a car before, i do know what im talking about and i turn out what is IMO very good quality work on a daily basis, it takes me 2 hours to do a maintenance clean, maybe im slow or maybe i do things properly  but i cant complet a correction detail on a medium sized used car in one day not to my standards any way. thats me thats how i work, that you thats how you work, we will just go around in circles if we carry on.

I also think that the more you do the better you get and the more stuff you add to a detail and thus it seems to take you longer on details as a result, however i have never been able to single handedly turn out a correction detail in a day.


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

james b said:


> you seem to think iv not detailed a car before.


What you talking about ??

The main thing is I'm happy in the knowing and my clients are more than happy with the results and this is all that matters.

Can't be fecked with it anymore.

Night.:wave:


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## *MAGIC* (Feb 22, 2007)

james b said:


> Lets do what we did before and once again agree to disagree, you seem to think iv not detailed a car before, i do know what im talking about and i turn out what is IMO very good quality work on a daily basis, it takes me 2 hours to do a maintenance clean, maybe im slow or maybe i do things properly  but i cant complet a correction detail on a medium sized used car in one day not to my standards any way. thats me thats how i work, that you thats how you work, we will just go around in circles if we carry on.
> 
> I also think that the more you do the better you get and the more stuff you add to a detail and thus it seems to take you longer on details as a result, however i have never been able to single handedly turn out a correction detail in a day.


Your sh1t mate PMV Gavin can :doublesho:lol::lol::lol:


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## Johnnyopolis (Oct 25, 2005)

I think James's account has been hacked by Gary Funnel cos it sure sounds like him.


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

IdealShine said:


> Just plain pisses me off tbh.
> 
> Some little wannbes post up there crap and get lots of "good work", "great job" posts when they post up this rubbish.
> 
> ...


forgot to say... goes with the territory. posting in the showroom as an enthusiast is one thing, decent work will get recognised - as soon as you're in the studio people expect perfection! mind you, i'd rather people didn't post than just said "nice reflections" or whatever.....


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

In The Detail said:


> forgot to say... goes with the territory. posting in the showroom as an enthusiast is one thing, decent work will get recognised - as soon as you're in the studio people expect perfection! mind you, i'd rather people didn't post than just said "nice reflections" or whatever.....


A cult following or fan club also helps.:lol:


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

a what following?





oh right - thought that might explain what the funny smell was....


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

In The Detail said:


> a what following?
> 
> oh right - thought that might explain what the funny smell was....


umm, quite apt.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Right i wont get in to a slagging match with any one else, i was putting my opinion across but it seems to have come across wrong, forget it i know what i ment and it made sense in my head 

To be fair i dont give a [email protected] what you do if you can do a full correction on a army issue hummer in 2 hours or a jumbo jet in 4 at the end of the day as long as you make your £££ thats what its all about :thumb:


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

as Ringo said "peace and love, peace and love"


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