# P/X dilemma ?



## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

The scirocco is going off for px next week, it still has my winter tyres on, so the question is do I leave them on or put my summers back on ?, the winters are Vredestein wintrac extremes ?, I feel my normal Dunlops will be more sellable so it's in my interest to keep the winters on as they won't suit either of our new cars ?.

The dealer hasn't seen the car and has not asked about tyres etc, they are delivering the new car and taking old one away, not sure what to do really, I am not sure if the vreds are OK as an all year round tyre ?.


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## Ric (Feb 4, 2007)

You might have use for the winters in the future if the new car is the same size, id keep those.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

As I put above they won't suit our new cars so don't want to hold onto them hoping the next car will suit them, they are 235-35-19 by the way so not a usual winter tyre LOL


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

What I was wondering is will the dealer be happy when they see winter tyres on, although they do state M&S (mud and snow).


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Fed up of it already? You've only had it a few months!
Chuff me, am I the only one who actually buys cars to keep on this place, or is it because I buy proper ones


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

-R- said:


> What I was wondering is will the dealer be happy when they see winter tyres on, although they do state M&S (mud and snow).


I doubt they will even notice.


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## Beancounter (Aug 31, 2006)

Why not just advertise both sets and see which ones you sell first. 
I fancy with the current/recent weather you'll be able to get rid of the Winters fairly easy, but by advertising both let the market decide.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Whilst I can see your point that your 'all season' Dunlops would be easier to sell I wouldn't be happy to buy your car from a garage with 'winters' on that are recommended for use when the temperature drops below 7 Deg. C. 

I would be asking for 'summer' or 'all season' tyres and wheels to be provided and included in the sale as well! :thumb:

It is a moral dilema that you will have to decide on, and live with, Shaun. 


Alan W


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I think the car will be easier to sell with the summer tyres on. 

Most people manage to go without winter tyres. 

I think a few would be put off buying a car knowing in 2 months time they will have to spend a sizeable amount of money on new tyres. 

People usually buy new cars to avoid bills. 

Also if the deal is already done with value agreed, I'd still take the winters off as they will be easier to sell at this time of year.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

PugIain said:


> Fed up of it already? You've only had it a few months!
> Chuff me, am I the only one who actually buys cars to keep on this place, or is it because I buy proper ones


???, I have had it nearly 3 !?


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

-R- said:


> ???, I have had it nearly 3 years ?!


Exactly! You young uns with your I want new stuff after 5 minutes thing.
Try living with a 406 for 5 years lol. Its still going too despite my brother trying his best to kill it.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Alan W said:


> Whilst I can see your point that your 'all season' Dunlops would be easier to sell I wouldn't be happy to buy your car from a garage with 'winters' on that are recommended for use when the temperature drops below 7 Deg. C.
> 
> I would be asking for 'summer' or 'all season' tyres and wheels to be provided and included in the sale as well! :thumb:
> 
> ...


With all due respect to the garage I don't care if it helps them sell it or not LOL, they have already screwed nearly a full years tax out of me as that wasn't part of the original deal but now they are saying it must be included !!.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

That's annoying about the tax, ask them where it says you have to leave the tax on ? I'm looking at swapping my cupra and it currently has winters on the front, unless asked they will be staying on. I haven't mentioned it I've only said they tyres have 6mm of tread. So if I was you I'd leave them on. It's not like winter tyres are illegal is it


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

-R- said:


> With all due respect to the garage I don't care if it helps them sell it or not LOL,


That's not what I said or implied! 

Alan W


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

SteveTDCi said:


> That's annoying about the tax, ask them where it says you have to leave the tax on ? I'm looking at swapping my cupra and it currently has winters on the front, unless asked they will be staying on. I haven't mentioned it I've only said they tyres have 6mm of tread. So if I was you I'd leave them on. It's not like winter tyres are illegal is it


Yes I am annoyed about that as I just renewed it !, I don't want to wind them up but TBH they have got it cheap anyway IMO, I have now taken off all the non standard parts that I had added, I was happy to leave them on for a private buyer and I would have given a private buyer a choice of either wheel but a dealer is another thing altogether , as you say winters aren't illegal and they haven't even asked about tread etc.


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

I'd leave the winters on, as the saleability of the Dunlops is gonna be a lot higher.

I wouldn't have any issues about leaving the winter tyres on the car - I doubt if the garage or the next buyer will notice. And even if they did, they bought the car with 'em on, so it's their problem.

My moral standards would stoop if you were selling 'em a car knowing that the tyres all had slow punctures.....as you're not, I don't see a problem. :thumb:


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Alan W said:


> That's not what I said or implied!
> 
> Alan W


Yes I know, as a buyer It would put me off too, but it's the garages problem after Its gone from me, some people won't even care I guess.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Kriminal said:


> I'd leave the winters on, as the saleability of the Dunlops is gonna be a lot higher.
> 
> I wouldn't have any issues about leaving the winter tyres on the car - I doubt if the garage or the next buyer will notice. And even if they did, they bought the car with 'em on, so it's their problem.
> 
> My moral standards would stoop if you were selling 'em a car knowing that the tyres all had slow punctures.....as you're not, I don't see a problem. :thumb:


Yes a set of original R alloys plus tyres are going to be over £1200, I don't think with winters they will be popular as your looking at another £700 to £800 for a set of four tyres !


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I know from looking that dealers are only offering book prices, I'm going to see how desperate vauxhall dealers are ... I really fancy a focus but the new fiesta looks nice ... I might even wait for a fiesta st....


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## Blueberry (Aug 10, 2007)

Personally, I think the garage will be expecting summer tyres to be on the car and so would most people who buy the car. Most people wouldn't even think about or know about winter tyres. The tread on winter tyres will soon wear out in the better weather. I think you need to be honest here.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

-R- said:


> Yes I know, as a buyer It would put me off too, but it's the garages problem after Its gone from me, some people won't even care I guess.


If you don't have to use the garage again and can live with your actions then that's the decision and moral dilema I mentioned earlier. 

Your mind seems pretty well made up already and it doesn't seem a problem for you so do as YOU see fit.

Alan W

P.S. I'll give you £1K for the silver wheels and tyres! :lol:


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Not sure how it's a moral dilemma, to a dealer tyres are tyres, whether the be a set of goodyears or a set of linglongs


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Alan W said:


> Whilst I can see your point that your 'all season' Dunlops would be easier to sell I wouldn't be happy to buy your car from a garage with 'winters' on that are recommended for use when the temperature drops below 7 Deg. C.
> 
> I would be asking for 'summer' or 'all season' tyres and wheels to be provided and included in the sale as well! :thumb:
> 
> ...





Kerr said:


> I think the car will be easier to sell with the summer tyres on.
> 
> Most people manage to go without winter tyres.
> 
> ...


There is no moral dilema, if it was important to the dealer they should have asked. It's not unusual to have winter tyres on a car in winter! I certainly would not do anything that would cost me money (change the tyres) unless it was agreed as part of the deal.



Beancounter said:


> Why not just advertise both sets and see which ones you sell first.
> I fancy with the current/recent weather you'll be able to get rid of the Winters fairly easy, but by advertising both let the market decide.


^clever idea! Do it!


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Bero said:


> There is no moral dilema, if it was important to the dealer they should have asked.


I guess we're just not on the same wavelength. If I said *'do unto others as you would have done to you'* does it make you think any differently?



Bero said:


> It's not unusual to have winter tyres on a car in winter!


 I have never viewed a secondhand car and found it to have winter tyres on it and I'm actively looking just now.

I'll leave it there! 

Alan W


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Alan W said:


> I guess we're just not on the same wavelength. If I said *'do unto others as you would have done to you'* does it make you think any differently?
> 
> I have never viewed a secondhand car and found it to have winter tyres on it and I'm actively looking just now.
> 
> ...


Eh, where is there a moral dilemma? Exactly as steve said, a dealer will give a price for the car with the tyres on. In fact they won't give a crap so long as they have enough tread.

They're giving you a price for the car as inspected, they're not buying the car for your benefit.

If the tyres don't have enough tread, they'll find the cheapest possible tyres they can put on to make it roadworthy.

Crikey, if you think most dealers are honest, trustworthy people, I have no idea which dealers you've bought from. Only two dealers i've dealt with have been honest.

Shaun, I don't see the dilemma


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## cam73 (Oct 5, 2008)

Frankly it's sold as seen. The dealer has every opportunity to check over the car they are taking and selling this time of year they can use the winter tyres as a unique selling point to any buyer (if they even notice it has winter tyres on).


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Alan W said:


> I guess we're just not on the same wavelength. If I said *'do unto others as you would have done to you'* does it make you think any differently?
> 
> I have never viewed a secondhand car and found it to have winter tyres on it and I'm actively looking just now.


No not at all; I would view removing summer Michelins and replacing them with brand new budget tyres as a much worse thing. You would not do this while running your own car and only doing it to profit. I would have no quams buying a car with winter tyres on, good for winter and I get to choose a new matched set of summer tyres.

>3% of tyres sold last year were winters, assuming winters last slightly longer (less spirited driving in winter, no long summer drives/holidays) garages might expect one in 20 cars traded in winter to have them, one every couple weeks perhaps. 614 cars are returned on Auto trader searching winter tyres - very low percentage admittedly, and although some will not have winter tyres as some may have a 'winter pack', and 'good tyres' I bet many more not counted as winter tyres not listed.

In any case the garage are not getting done, if they don't like them they can change them at trade prices and someone will take/use/sell the winters at their discretion.

Hopefully does not come across argumentatively, ultimately I would be happy to buy a car like that so would have no problem p/x one like that.....so maybe you 'do unto....' quote still holds, I just have a different perspective! :thumb:


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

I'll be honest with you all - if I had never been on DW, I'd have never known that winter tyres existed 

When I look around a car that I'm thinking of purchasing, I won't go studying the tyre wall - the tread depth, yes.

Do unto others?....hmmm.....in this case my answer would be yes, I would. The tyres ON the vehicle are in excellent condition (I presume), have no damage, and are not likely to result in somebody having an accident.

I see nothing morally incorrect with leaving Winter tyres on - especially during Winter :thumb:


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

The masses have spoken Shaun and I'm in the minority (as usual :lol - leave your winter wheels and tyres on the 'R'! 

Alan W

P.S. My offer still stands!


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## MEH4N (Mar 15, 2012)

leave them on. They only go by book price. I know bmw dont care as someone i know put steelies on a 5 series they px'd.

As for tax, keep it and claim it back.


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## keithjeb (Nov 25, 2012)

Speaking as someone thats actually had a garage (main dealer no less) remove & replace a set of 10k old contis and replace them with linglong ditchfinders between viewing & collecting the car, sod them.

That being said, if its a full set of winter wheels (i.e. not just tyres) I think you're on slightly sketchier ground - if they haven't seen it then they will be assuming that it is stock - non standard wheels will knock the value a good bit.


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## Dannbodge (Sep 26, 2010)

Leave the winters on.
Sod the garage. If they want summer tyres on it to make it sell faster they will stick budgets on it


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## mattsbmw (Jul 20, 2008)

prsonally i would speak to the garage and explain it has winters on and that they will be left on would they have an issue with that?

Seems the only way to be sure, as you dont want them to receive it with winters on and then find they charge back for summers etc.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Whatever works best for you finacially, the garage will be making lots and lots on your px anyway.


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

mattsbmw said:


> prsonally i would speak to the garage and explain it has winters on and that they will be left on would they have an issue with that?
> 
> Seems the only way to be sure, as you dont want them to receive it with winters on and then find they charge back for summers etc.


Sorry I think you are being far to "PC".
They won't charge you back for summers.
As far as they are concerned it has tyres on it and the tread is fine and that's it.

Garages make a fortune anyway on most deals, eg they take a car in for px at £7k and sell it for £11,500. VW dealers do at least unless you fight quite hard. Certain dealers can be nicer than others but as a rule of thumb they make large margins.


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## Risk (Feb 1, 2012)

No brainer for me, keep which ever wheels you will be able to sell easiest. The others stay on the car. Who ever buys the car next will just use the winter wheels on the car as a point to negotiate price.


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## J1ODY A (Nov 28, 2008)

I did this with my Focus, they didn't even look at the car (except out the window of the showroom) so I asked if they'd care if the car was traded in with different alloys (still Ford but they had winter tyres cos I knew my summer wheels would sell for more) - they didn't care as it was going to auction!

SO, keep the ones you can sell the easiest.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

keithjeb said:


> Speaking as someone thats actually had a garage (main dealer no less) remove & replace a set of 10k old contis and replace them with linglong ditchfinders between viewing & collecting the car, sod them.
> 
> That being said, if its a full set of winter wheels (i.e. not just tyres) I think you're on slightly sketchier ground - if they haven't seen it then they will be assuming that it is stock - non standard wheels will knock the value a good bit.


Its on a set of new and genuine VW 19" R alloys :thumb:, I don't think they are winter only, pretty sure they are marked Mud and snow, they are Vredestein wintrac extremes


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I really wouldn't worry


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

They won't even notice. And as for the tax keep that. They always charge the new owner anyway so tell them to stuff it. I've never given over a car with the tax on and never been asked about it.

Keep whatever you get the most for. Stuff it.


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## mattsbmw (Jul 20, 2008)

xJay1337 said:


> Sorry I think you are being far to "PC".
> They won't charge you back for summers.
> As far as they are concerned it has tyres on it and the tread is fine and that's it.
> 
> Garages make a fortune anyway on most deals, eg they take a car in for px at £7k and sell it for £11,500. VW dealers do at least unless you fight quite hard. Certain dealers can be nicer than others but as a rule of thumb they make large margins.


not really being "PC"

The OP asked for opinions as he seemed unsure what to do, the best way is to ask!


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

should_do_more said:


> They won't even notice. And as for the tax keep that. They always charge the new owner anyway so tell them to stuff it. I've never given over a car with the tax on and never been asked about it.
> 
> Keep whatever you get the most for. Stuff it.


They say that they will have to renegotiate the px if I take the tax !!, which would basically mean they would knock off the tax price !, I'm not happy but we are to far along now !, I will be taking the mats out now and maybe even the leather booklet wallet, if they are being silly then so will I !


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

So what are you trading it in for? Something interesting?


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## Beancounter (Aug 31, 2006)

Are they offering you that good a deal on the buy side, that you can't just walk away?
Is the car you're changing to available elsewhere?
I'd be thinking about looking somewhere if they are being that aggressive on the deal......just my 2p


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Can you not tax it for 6 months and send off the other disc, do they know it's taxed for 12 months or just that it's taxed ?


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

-R- said:


> They say that they will have to renegotiate the px if I take the tax !!, which would basically mean they would knock off the tax price !, I'm not happy but we are to far along now !, I will be taking the mats out now and maybe even the leather booklet wallet, if they are being silly then so will I !


take the spare wheel, jack, head rests, engine under tray, anything that sells on ebay if they are been funny :lol:


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## avit88 (Mar 19, 2012)

they screwed you with tax so you screw them with the tyres, also you will easily sell those summer tyres on ebay a lot easier than winters.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

PugIain said:


> So what are you trading it in for? Something interesting?


Nahhhh, a 406


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## silverback (Jun 18, 2008)

RisingPower said:


> Nahhhh, a 406


now hold on there sweet lips.you can get them in JRG


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

silverback said:


> now hold on there sweet lips.you can get them in JRG


Ah, sorry, I meant a 520d in JRG


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## silverback (Jun 18, 2008)

RisingPower said:


> Ah, sorry, I meant a 520d in JRG


Its an Msport you cheeky *******. Not just a 520


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

RisingPower said:


> Nahhhh, a 406


they're more interesting than a Datsun


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

silverback said:


> Its an Msport you cheeky *******. Not just a 520


Motionless sport?


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

PugIain said:


> they're more interesting than a Datsun


They're just not, I mean, can you play the "find the rust" game?


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

RisingPower said:


> They're just not, I mean, can you play the "find the rust" game?


Haha, no. Although they do talk to you.
Saying they talk to me is my way of coping with rattles. It's quite fun, and my 407 actually talks more sense than my wife.


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

-R- said:


> The scirocco is going off for px next week, it still has my winter tyres on, so the question is do I leave them on or put my summers back on ?, the winters are Vredestein wintrac extremes ?, I feel my normal Dunlops will be more sellable so it's in my interest to keep the winters on as they won't suit either of our new cars ?.
> 
> The dealer hasn't seen the car and has not asked about tyres etc, they are delivering the new car and taking old one away, not sure what to do really, I am not sure if the vreds are OK as an all year round tyre ?.


Leave 'em on Shaun

As the car is going to a Stealers, personally I would strip the car of everything I could get away with. If it was a private sale, thats a completely different ball game :thumb:

Me thinks they are just taking the mick with the car tax thing. How about saying you want to re-negotiate if you leave it on?

Bloody Stealers - hate 'em all :devil:

My view on Car Salesman is, if they want to be your friend you haven't haggled enough off the price! :lol:


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

Had the same thing on the tax front but we had got him to the point where we were told that's the deal or leave lol . I wouldn't have a conscience trading in they will be making plenty out of the deal on the px and on your purchase , the thought wouldn't have even crossed my mind


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

robertdon777 said:


> Whatever works best for you finacially, the garage will be making lots and lots on your px anyway.


Speaks the voice...how many people think the motor trade is a bed of roses, you need to make something on it...however people get their backs up with a mark up.

They usually don't have a clue about, rent, rates, advertising, proper prep on car........after all ever p/x is perfect (my ****)

And the big one that most of joe public don't know is the vat man has to be paid on each deal..on the margin and the lovely vat man does not take into consideration what you might have spent!


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

xJay1337 said:


> Sorry I think you are being far to "PC".
> They won't charge you back for summers.
> As far as they are concerned it has tyres on it and the tread is fine and that's it.
> 
> Garages make a fortune anyway on most deals, eg they take a car in for px at £7k and sell it for £11,500. VW dealers do at least unless you fight quite hard. Certain dealers can be nicer than others but as a rule of thumb they make large margins.


4.5k margin on a 7k car....think your blinkered there


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

should_do_more said:


> And as for the tax keep that. They always charge the new owner anyway so tell them to stuff it..


Some may have a policy to always charge the new owner tax....however not all!

'They' (sweeping statement) might have a policy where all cars come with 6 months....they might not have any policy and judge on a deal by deal basis.

Your attitude is stuff it so chances are whoever is dealing with you will adopt the same stance.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Vredestien Wintrac 4 extremes are perfectly ok for all year round use...

I have them on our Rav4 and chose them because reviews showed they are capable of 40K+ miles in all conditions...

I use them only in winter but they are very good tyres in all conditions. HTH.


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