# DSG Gearbox - what am I doing wrong?



## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

collected the Golf today, no pics yet as its dark and rainin....was there aaaages.

Its a 2008 1.4 (140) GT Sport with DSG, tornado red, leather, sunroof, 17k miles.....

My wife test drove it with me in it, worked a treat. I drove it, it shuddered a bit in first (changes to second pretty quickly) but I was wearing thick soled converse shoes so thought it was a one off....all this before you guys warned me about the shuddering.

I have since kangaroo-ed all the way back from North London.....
- changing in auto = jerky
- manually holding in first then changing to second = jerky
- sport mode = jerky
- no gas on take off = jerky
- bit of gas on take off = jerky
- lots of gas on take off = jeeeeesus, jerky, hit the brakes fast before I hit the car in front!

it is fine in second onwards.

so....is it me, is the gearbox wrong (only 17k miles and full VW history), or does my wife have special skills? She can't explain what she's doing, and now sadly can't drive it as she's unwell and immobile for a week after an op.

Have I bought a lemon?
Is the DSG box just like this?
Am I DSGtard?

I have lots of experience in faster and more powerful cars, both manual and auto...but I just can't crack this one!

Thanks!


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

Sounds like the Mechatronics could be on the way out.

Your car is in the period that they had problems (2008) and it was such to the extent that VAG America issued a letter to all owners inviting them to get their Mechatronics unit replaced FOC and then covered by a 10 yr warranty iirc. I'll dig the letter out in a bit and post up.

Your going to have to Jump through some hoops if it is the Mechatronics unit. But you need to get the fault logged with VW.

As the car is only on 17k miles it won't have had a service on the DSG yet as that is due at 40k miles.

What your going to have to do is

1. Have the DSG reset - If you know anyone with VCDS they can do it for you as a dealer will charge an hours labour. The DSG box has something called fuzzy logic which learns how you drive. This way it can match gear changes to your driving style. If the last owner drove like a granny everywhere that could be why. The reset just puts everything back to factory default and then it re-learns again.

2. DSG Service - This cost circa £170 from a dealer but you may be able to get it cheaper. Just be aware the oil alone is about £11 a litre

If you live near Salisbury i can reset the DSG for you as i have VCDS (Basically the same computer a VW dealer has but run from a laptop)

I'll dig out the letter know for you so if your dealer do get a bit funny you can educate them it is a known problem.


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

This was the letter that VAG America sent to all owners of cars with DSG in 2008



> <VIN>
> <CUSTOMER NAME>
> <CUSTOMER ADDRESS>
> <CUSTOMER CITY STATE ZIPCODE>
> ...


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Check to see if its had the oil change, its 40k but i'm not sure if the time limit is on it too, and as mentioned it could be the mechatronic unit but to be honest it sounds like there is nothing wrong with it, that's how i found my A3 to drive and why i sold it.


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

My last car and current car have both been DSG and only once had anything like the OP described. An oil change and Reset solved the issue for me. But the car was on 67k miles and I was the second owner. 

My current car is on 7k miles and is as smooth as a babies bottom. They shouldn't be jerky at all.


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## Daffy (Dec 15, 2005)

Had this same problem twice on my Leon and it was on its way again when I got rid. Fixed both times under warranty and is a known problem and a real pia when driving as it makes you look like a learner.
As vrs Carl says 'Mechatronics' ,didn't remember that myself, not sure on cost but VAG group are fully aware of the issues. This is one of the reasons I will stay away from DSG now. Yours must have deteriorated quite far, if this is possible, as it sounds much worse than mine ever got.
Did you get it from a dealer? Even if not so long as it has service history it cannot be that far out of warranty so worth getting in touch with VW customer services if no luck at the local dealer.


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## howie parks (Jun 5, 2006)

Let the wife drive

I release the brake, wait half a second then press the accelerator maybe a 1/4 and ease off after another second or two once moving. Not always the smoothest though.


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

thanks all!
yes, bought from a dealer. i just took it out a minute ago and howie, you seem to be right. if you 'surprise' it it's all over the place.
i'll mention it to the dealer. at 17k miles i would have hoped it wouldn't be a turd. will see how i get on with it this week.

Carl, that's great info, much appreciated.


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## Daffy (Dec 15, 2005)

I would call the dealer tomorrow and at least let them know there is a potential problem and you will keep them advised. It should operate smoothly whatever your style, unless you are a kangeroo.


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

Is it Jerky in reverse? If it is then it is definitely the Mechatronics but you will still have to jump through the hoops of DSG reset and Oil Change first. 

The box takes 6l of oil too which is why the service is so damn expensive. £66 before they even touch it.


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

no, fine in reverse. out of interest, how much are the mechatronics to replace? i can still takethe car back no questions asked, but need to make sure it isn't me being rubbish.


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

jeees. just googled it. seems expensive. i will give them a call when they open and see what they have to say otherwise i'm taking it back this afternoon.


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

The Mech unit will cost circa £1400 to replace which is why you want it doing under warranty.


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

vRS Carl said:


> Sounds like the Mechatronics could be on the way out.
> 
> Your car is in the period that they had problems (2008) and it was such to the extent that VAG America issued a letter to all owners inviting them to get their Mechatronics unit replaced FOC and then covered by a 10 yr warranty iirc. I'll dig the letter out in a bit and post up.
> 
> ...


How helpful you are Carl. Top man and top DW member:thumb:


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

can't agree more!

i called them up, they say servicing will call me tomorrow to arrange a repair. the sales guy reckons it should be covered under the second hand vw warranty.....i've been here before so will keep you all posted.

thanks for all the info though, at least with the discussion this morning i wasn't an unarmed man!


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

chillly said:


> How helpful you are Carl. Top man and top DW member:thumb:


Thanks - I'm always happy to help where i can :thumb:


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

called them up, they started with the 'they are like that' until i mentioned Carl's US letter. taking it back on the weekend so will keep you posted....at the moment they agree it isn't good, do i push for the full mechatronics thing or should i be happy with a reset and oil change? what i mean is is the reset a potential 'proper' fix or is it anyone's guess?

loving the ammo though, really helped so thanks again!


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Potential proper fix, but don't expect it to be the end of it. Sometimes these things do get that far out of whack on their own and a reset can cure it, but if it's Donald Ducked, it'll take all of a day or two to come back as a problem.

Audi declared to me that mine was like that, and no matter what I threw at them they wouldn't fix it - so I sold it (at a huge loss). Happiest day of my life that I saw the back of that stupid gearbox. Not what you want to hear, sorry, but I suspect as much as I fell out with it a good dealer would have fixed it. Unfortunately they're all Shytner round here, and they're diabolical.


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

thanks for the advice. i have had a similar problem in the past with a toyota mmt, problem being that the gearboxes eventually shook themselves to bits so a new one was the only route to repair, and even then that wasn't a long term fix (had 3 in te end).

i'll see what they say on the weekend, and give it a couple of days afterwards of proper use to see how it goes. if it is a tvrd then hopefully i will find out sooner than later.

problem seems to be that there really is a mix of dsg success and failure stories, and the car is really nice.....i hope it works out.

thanks again all, will keep you posted!


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Hope you get it sorted mate, but I just feel that if you buy an approved car from a dealership then it should drive correctly, if not they are obliged to put this right or refund you, especially as it's only been a few days.

Trust me, the threat of forums work miracles when dealerships aren't playing ball.


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## Sony (Oct 31, 2010)

The issue with my DSG (1.2TSI) is that it changes gears far too quickly. 7th gear at just under 30 mph is not funny at all- how the hell can you accelerate at 30 mph in 7th??
On the other hand- traffic lights, in 1st, foot down (and that's in D), and it flies like nothing else. And this is a tiny little 1.2 turbo.


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

Its not you there is a problem with it. I drove my mates GTi with DSG and it was smooth as both in auto and manual.


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

should_do_more said:


> called them up, they started with the 'they are like that' until i mentioned Carl's US letter. taking it back on the weekend so will keep you posted....at the moment they agree it isn't good, do i push for the full mechatronics thing or should i be happy with a reset and oil change? what i mean is is the reset a potential 'proper' fix or is it anyone's guess?
> 
> loving the ammo though, really helped so thanks again!


The reset and Oil change will only fix it if it has been down to the fact you and the previous owner have wildly different driving styles. I'm talking they drove like a granny and you drive like you stole it everywhere:driver:

Unfortunately unless when they plug it in to VAS (Diagnostic Machine) it comes up with a fault (which they rarely do) then you will have to suck and see how the Reset and Oil Change goes. But if it is being done by a VW dealer and they are using approved genuine parts then the work is warrantied for 2 years. Not sure if you would get any warranty if from an independant. So you should be ok. Bottom line with this is take any problems with the DSG to that same dealer. Or ensure you keep all receipts/paperwork for the work that has been carried out and make sure they specifically annotate the reason why, i.e. investigate/fix potential mechatronics unit fault (or words to that effect)

Let me know how you get on


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

Sony said:


> The issue with my DSG (1.2TSI) is that it changes gears far too quickly. 7th gear at just under 30 mph is not funny at all- how the hell can you accelerate at 30 mph in 7th??
> On the other hand- traffic lights, in 1st, foot down (and that's in D), and it flies like nothing else. And this is a tiny little 1.2 turbo.


That sounds like normal to me for D mode.

The reason they get to so high a gear is if your driving and not making any or very little input on the throttle the gearbox assumes your into a coasting mode so moves to as high a gear as it can to enable better economy.

Similarly it is proven that you should accelerate quickly to whatever speed your going to be doing (within the law of course) to help with fuel economy.

I have the 6 speed DSG in my vRS and that behaves the same way. If im sat at a set of lights on a dual carriageway that is at the NSL then when i put my foot down to move off the car accelerates all the way to 60/70mph never getting any higher than 3rd gear. However as soon as i lift off a bit to maintain speed then the box quickly moves into 6th.

If you have paddles (or even if not) you can when in D push the lever to the left and operate it as a sequential box giving you more control. Clever thing is the box won't let you stall and will change up automatically when near the redline.

None of that is meant in any derogatory way or trying to teach you to suck eggs. You would be surprised the amount of DSG owners i see who don't know/understand how the box works properly. My wife didn't realise ours had flappy paddles until i changed them for some OSIR ones and she uses it every day for work :lol:


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

vRS Carl said:


> That sounds like normal to me for D mode.
> 
> Similarly it is proven that you should accelerate quickly to whatever speed your going to be doing (within the law of course) to help with fuel economy.


Don't want to divert the thread (as it's a gud un) but the notion that accelerating the car hard to its cruising speed saves fuel is nonsense. It's an urban myth..


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

DampDog said:


> Don't want to divert the thread (as it's a gud un) but the notion that accelerating the car hard to its cruising speed saves fuel is nonsense. It's an urban myth..


Hence why i said quickly not hard


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

vRS Carl said:


> Hence why i said quickly not hard


And the difference between accelerating "quickly" as opposed to "hard" is


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

I was being pedantic hence the smiley face but as you asked. 

I can accelerate quickly by applying 3/4 throttle and the DSG when in D will change up at around 4k rpm. 

If I accelerate hard I push the pedal to the floor, engaging the kickdown switch, and the car will accelerate as fast as possible and will only change up at 6200rpm.


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

Lol...

Ah I see, you're just making it up as you go along..

Coming back to the DSG, my uncle bought a heavily discounted Jetta last year when they where selling them by the bucket full at the local Vdub garage. (because of the new model arriving) He opted for a TDi, with a DSG box. I was surprised how smooth the car was but did notice how quickly it got up in to 6th or 7th. Pretty sure applying anything other than light throttle would see it jump to 3,4 whatever. I had a little go in "S" I assume sport mode an really didn't like it, it just seemed to hang on to any particular gear for far too long, but it did make it quicker.

It was certainly smooth in first with no jumping or juddering.

Can't remember the last time I drove an "auto" before that and to be honest it was a bit of a revalation how good it was. Just because if the sheer complexity of the double clutch and electronics involved one or two must go wrong. I notice that for some Vdubs a DSG is the only option, if you want a new Polo Gti, DSG is std and only choice.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

DampDog said:


> Just because if the sheer complexity of the double clutch and electronics involved one or two must go wrong.


Utter rubbish - think back to the days of the British motor industry, when we said 'well, there's a load of different bits in there, it's going to break every once in a while'. The Japs came along and taught us that you didn't have to put up with crummy Brummy 'Yow olright' reliability.

It's still too new, and they still don't know how to stop it breaking. When they make it as reliable as the rest of the car, I'll entertain it again...


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

OvlovMike said:


> Utter rubbish - think back to the days of the British motor industry, when we said 'well, there's a load of different bits in there, it's going to break every once in a while'. The Japs came along and taught us that you didn't have to put up with crummy Brummy 'Yow olright' reliability.
> 
> It's still too new, and they still don't know how to stop it breaking. When they make it as reliable as the rest of the car, I'll entertain it again...


Jumping in feet first again with "utter rubbish" constructive comments. Maybe you have a problem with engaging brain before speaking yourself.

You're the one spouting "utter rubbish" with they don't know how to make em reliable. DSG's are in tens of thousands of cars worldwide, most work as advertised. Granted some don't, and that's blo ody frustrating when it's in a new car that you've paid thousands for. The fact that the DSG's typically go into top end high vehicles that tend to have higher power outputs would make you think that the manufacturer has confidence in their product. These boxes go into Audi's, Vdubs, Seat, Skoda and the forums aren't filled with DSG box tales of woe, there are some. But not more so than other problems.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

That's just simply not true. The fact that the Americans have managed to get VW Group to acknowledge the issue and give a 10 year warranty on them suggests that the issue was sufficient for it to cost the company significantly in terms of publicity on it's newfangled box. They're improving, but the first generation were dire for issues, and the second generation ate mechatronics like they were going out of fashion - there are more than a handful of cars which are running their 3rd or 4th replacement mech unit. Recalling nearly 70,000 cars as a bare minimum for vehicles 'suddenly losing power' is hardly the peak of reliability.

There's a forum set up specifically for DSG issues - it is THAT BIG an issue for VAG. The latest generation is supposed to fix a lot of these issues, but hasn't been around long enough to demonstrate this. Given how many people got burnt by this issue, paying thousands of pounds to have their thousands of pounds gearbox to be fixed, you'll have to forgive many people (not just myself) for standing well back of them until someone who thinks that the sun shines out of VAG's ass has demonstrated that they are indeed better.

And maybe you'd be well placed as keeping personal comments to yourself. If you get me.


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

Should do more. How you getting on with the first fix buddy and has it cured the problem?


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

can't get the car to them until Saturday. they seem pretty much in agreement that it is wrong and needs sorting, so won't really have any news until a week Saturda when I can collect it.....not a great start!


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Make sure you keep on at them - it needs to be sorted soon. My biggest problem was that after a month of chasing I had to give up as I started a new job that I needed to ensure I held down, and only picked up the issue again 4-5 months later by which time they tried to say it'd been fixed otherwise I'd have been back before then.

Longer you leave it, the more likely they'll be able to defend it as an issue that occurred after sale, which makes it more difficult for you to reject should the worst come to the worst.


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

OvlovMike said:


> And maybe you'd be well placed as keeping personal comments to yourself. If you get me.


Ahh.... I see so this forum has one set of rules for you and a different set for the rest of us?

You can tell people they're talking "utter rubbish" accuse them of thinking " that the sun shines out of VAG's ass"

Yet when they point out that you're crass and insulting with your replies, you tick them off... You need to get over yourself.

And just to enlighten you I do not think that the "sun shines out of VAG's ass" I'm also pretty sure it doesn't shine out of mine or yours..


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

I referred to your comment as being utter rubbish, because it harks back to the age-old British mentality that 'stuff made of bits will break', yet this cycle was broken a long time ago already by the Japanese. It's a long way from taking a personal dig at yourself, merely challenging opinion with opinion. You'd be in a better place if you thought about that one.

I also didn't refer to you when I mentioned that I'd let someone else who thought the sun shone out of VAG's ass test it for reliability, however if you like that cap - buddy, who am I to stop you wearing it. :thumb:


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

OvlovMike said:


> I also didn't refer to you when I mentioned that I'd let someone else who thought the sun shone out of VAG's ass test it for reliability, however if you like that cap - buddy, who am I to stop you wearing it. :thumb:


Lol... You really just can't help yourself can you, can't help having a little dig.

This "someone" who's not appeared in any part of the thread suddenly appears and you throw out your sarcastic comments, and say that they weren't intended to be.. Yeah right.. "Don't pi ss on my leg and tell me it's raining"

If you feel the need to take swipes at people that's fine by me. But don't play the innocent party when people have a swipe back.

Appologies to the OP, didn't intend to get drawn into petty bickering..

"I'll get me coat"


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

You linked 'someone' and 'DampDog', nobody else. Given that it's not me because I wouldn't touch a DSG box with a ****ty stick, surely that means it's got to be 'someone'?

Christ on a bike, next I'll get accusations of blaming you because 'someone' ****ed up my VMware cluster this morning...


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

As above "I'll get me coat" us bickering is not helping OP, he's probably sitting reading this thinking WTF..

The old credo of "if you're not helping keep your gob shut applies"

I'll unsubscribe to this one, and classify it as "One of 'them' threads"


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

should_do_more said:


> can't get the car to them until Saturday. they seem pretty much in agreement that it is wrong and needs sorting, so won't really have any news until a week Saturda when I can collect it.....not a great start!


Ok buddy. Maybe say to them if they can fix the problem you will keep it if not exchange it. But if it was me i would say as you noticed the issue from the beginning if they fix it now and it still plays up down the road you still want to exchange it at that point. A good Vag dealer should have no probs with that. Good luck mate and hope it gets sorted so you can enjoy your pride and joy. cheers chillly


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

tell you what, if it does turn out to be a lemon i'll start a 'i hate DSG' thread 
will keep you all up to speed on what happens saturday.

yeah i was on the phone to them straight away and they seem fine about fixing it, but i guess that will depend on extent and cost.

i love the car though, really nice seats and the toys are fun, bit of a step up from my Polo as a daily runner, plus i love the red.....i reckon red is the new white


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Lol, fair enough. As I said, keep at them like a dog with a bone, last thing you want is them to consider it 'accepted' by you.

Best of luck with it, and I hope you don't need it!


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

OvlovMike said:


> Lol, fair enough. As I said, keep at them like a dog with a bone, last thing you want is them to consider it 'accepted' by you.
> 
> Best of luck with it, and I hope you don't need it!


Good advice, what I would say is keep a record of everything, back up all your conversations with letters and or emails. Garages tend to have selective memories when it suits them..


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Except for some poor soul from the US on the C30 forum who'd let slip that he'd been to Germany to go round the 'ring. And they really haven't forgotten that...


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

I wonder how many "production" cars just die on the ring, or let-go at a later date?


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Probably a few, but they shouldn't. At the end of the day, you can drive a car within an inch of it's life without 'thrashing' it - changing at the right time, squealing tyres and using every last bit of braking and acceleration that the car can give is something the car should be capable of. The trouble is, you get every muppet and his dog go in their cars thinking they're a racing driver, missing changes, bouncing off kerbs (they're big on the 'ring, much bigger than at your average UK track!) and generally just being hamfisted with it and mechanically unsympathetic.

Anyway, dragging this mildly back in the general direction of a broken DSG gearbox, auto boxes help to eliminate this because they don't tend to let you hold gears to the limiter any more.


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

just waiting for a call back today.....but seemsto be good news, i won't jinx it yet but saying what's happened!


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

should_do_more said:


> just waiting for a call back today.....but seemsto be good news, i won't jinx it yet but saying what's happened!


Good luck, hope it does the trick for you..


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

Hi All
thanks very much for all your input, it proved VERY helpful.

I just collected the car, driven it for a few hours in heavy traffic and it is super smooth.

VW replaced the mechatronic box free of charge, was quite funny as they called me up making it out to be a big favour and I said 'look, either send me back a fixed car or a cheque, because if you don't fixit I don't want it'. That plus the letter for US recalls got them on the case.

To be fair they weren't too difficult to deal with but that kind of speaks to the problem I must have had. The car is now silky smooth, not jerking and not almost stalling type behaviour. They said the part was problematic on earlier cars (mine's a 2008 so not that early!) and the new unit is redesigned. They also advised to change the gearbox fluid at 25k mile intervals, and to never go over 4 years if that mileage isn't reached (I do about 5k a year so possibly not).

So....thanks again, if it hadn't been for your input I would probably have chalked it up to me being a bit rubbish in it.

*Much appreciated !!*


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

Nice one, very glad it's sorted for you..:thumb:


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

Glad it's sorted mate.

They were still talking rubbish as the cars with problems were all 2008 onwards. But at least it saved you around a £1400 bill


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