# Swissol - a pro's user perspective...



## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

Now that the sanction on the "Swissol" word has been lifted I thought it might be appropriate to write a few words on the products from the perspective of a user.

What has happened in the past between DW and Swissol is neither here nor there and should be left in the past. Same applies to the litigation that happens between Swissol and Zymol…the politics between the two should not affect the audience of DW!

I'm cognisant of the rules regarding advertising on DW and would like to emphasis that all though I'm an authorised detailer using Swissol products this is not a disguised "sales push". I'm simply offering some advice on a product that may help you in your business, be another effective product to add to your arsenal of car care goods…or simply an informative article to read.

Who am I?…a little about me is in here:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/showthread.php?t=16397

The Swissol subject has also been touched on in here:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/showthread.php?t=16133

So, my cards are on the table with nothing to hide…although I'm happy to enter into "spirited" discussions about the merits, or otherwise, of the products - I won't bite no matter how well the hooks are baited and demean DW, or myself by getting into public slanging matches! It's happened before - but I'm sure it won't happen here!

Swissol make a huge range of products to cover just about every aspect of detailing. Let's kid no one, they're expensive and I haven't experienced them all. However, some products are remarkably good value despite their high initial outlay. 
I'll focus on the few selected items that hold most appeal to me (perhaps you too) and I use in my detailing work.

We're all after that deep, glossy water shedding finish; invariably there's a lot of work to do before we get there. Swirls and minor scratches need to be removed. People's perception of what a swirl is varies hugely…a customer might tell you his car has "light swirls" you roll up and it looks as though it's been attacked with a Brillo pad!
For minor swirls Swissol's *Medium Cleaner Fluid* is great to use with the following caveats:
With a PC on a Green or Orange pad you'll be working a long time to make any significant headway on German paints (VAG, Porsche, Merc and BMW) However, on the medium to soft paints it's great.

What is it? A grey, gritty feeling crème…initial impressions are that it might be too abrasive. It does contain abrasives that rapidly break down into fine polishing particles. It also contains resins that help mask some of the deeper marks.
Used correctly it will usually leave a high gloss finish ready for the final waxing. It may require an application of the Standard Cleaner Fluid to give that "ready to wax" finish…I've only had to do this on a couple of occasions.
Will it work on a rotary? I'm not sure. That'll be something I'll explore over the winter months.

For paints that I'd assess as being 95%+ perfect Swissols *Standard Cleaner Fluid* is perfect for giving the paint it's final polish before waxing. A smooth non-abrasive cleaner/polish, it's an absolute joy to use.
As it's still a prep product it does need to be worked into the paints surface. On older cars regardless of how well you've washed and clayed the paint, it's capable of lifting a surprising amount of grime "out" of the paint. It's made from natural products - it's not an aggressive chemical polish.
Can be applied by PC using a Blue or Green DAS pad or by hand using a terry towel applicator (terry pads have just enough "bite" to get the best from the fluid) By hand it's easy to know when the surface is wax ready…the paint surface will "squeak" when rubbed with the towel (hence squeaky clean!)
Although the Swissol blurb states that it will "remove minor scratches and swirls" we are talking minor in a major way!
It's a very capable product that will provide a high gloss to the paint, it's not "wipe on, wipe off and stand back and admire" stuff - even on cars with near perfect paint I can spend somewhere around 6-8 hours applying and removing the cleaner fluid. Dark colours can benefit from a repeat application with a noticeable deepening of the colour becoming evident.
The Cleaner Fluid is not something that needs to be applied on a regular basis. I generally suggest a pre and post winter treatment is a must. Because it's so easy to use another treatment mid-summer can beneficial too.

For those paying attention, you will have realised there is something missing here - a hard paint swirl and scratch removal product! 
There is one, "Cleaner Fluid Professional" I've only just managed to get a sample of the product and haven't had the opportunity to test it. Forget it's use on a PC, it's a rotary only product. I have heard some good reports on the product from a German detailer who trialed the Pro product. 
Extremely easy to use, it's a "one-step" process that'll apparently remove/swirls scratches without the need for an intermediate polishing step before waxing. If it is, then it'll be a product I'll use a lot of in 2007.

That's taken care of the prep type products; let's take a look at the waxes.

I've had a go with most of the popular waxes, from the affordable to the expensive, from a whole range of manufacturer's. Some are good, very good - some are a real waste of money. Despite persevering with the best of the above, I keep returning to Swissol's waxes…easy to use they give me the depth of finish, warmth and durability that keeps my customers smiling - I'm partial to using it on my own cars too!

All the waxes are abrasive free i.e. they have no cleaning properties. Made from natural products they use exotic oils to help maintain the condition of the paint and as carriers for the wax.
Costly? Yes - I remember my first purchase, a tub of Swissols cheapest that cost me around £40.00…I really thought I'd lost the plot! It didn't take long to realise that it was unquestionably the best car care product purchase I'd made. After that I was wishing the pot would empty so I could try the next one up the ladder (I didn't wait until it was finished!)

Get yourself past the high initial outlay, a mid range Swissol wax will compare favourably with other products in cost per application terms. Extremely economical in use, I have customers who've still got the same pot of wax that I supplied over 3 years ago and they're still not ready for a replacement.

Durability? It's up there with the best...my opinion guys! 
Swissol would say two coats ought to give 5 months protection. Of course that's dependant on the use the car the car is put to, environmental conditions etc. I've not carried out a test…a static panel sitting outside means nothing if it's not subject to the dynamics of a car in everyday use. But I'd reckon 3-4 months is realistic for a daily user - my wife's "garage queen" weekend car gets an annual full treatment and perhaps a quick lick of wax mid summer.
Having said that many of my customers will buy a tub of wax and can't resist applying a monthly coat…it'll do no harm and keeps that "just waxed" look.
One tub of wax, correctly applied will give between 30-35 applications…do the maths and work out how long that tub might potentially last if used every three months - starting to look even better value isn't it!

A quick run through the waxes available - entry level upwards

*Onyx* - Standard entry level wax that's easy to use and suitable for all paints (as are all Swissol waxes) A nice wax for light colours.
30% by volume Brazilian Grade One carnauba wax

*Saphir* - Premium quality wax that's the highest grade of wax that, IMO, should be applied to light coloured cars. Gives a wonderful streak-free finish on dark colours while remaining easy to use. My best seller.
40% by volume of Brazilian Ultra Pure Grade One carnauba wax

*Best of Show* - used to be known as "Concorsco". My favourite and absolutely perfect for the darker colours. Gives a gorgeous wet and oily looking finish. Requires a little more care in application (as do all waxes with high proportions of carnauba wax) Needs to be applied with the palms of your hands and massaged onto the paint…it takes a little practise to get the knack but most manage!
Contains 48% resp.51% by volume of Ultra Pure White and Yellow Carnauba wax.

Swissol make several more costly waxes. As I alluded to in an earlier post, the law of diminishing returns starts to bite quite savagely, it will be difficult to see where that extra cash has gone! Best of Show, satisfies my customers needs without exception...at least no one has said otherwise!

In between the standard waxes above, Swissol make a few "marque specific" waxes.
Zuffenhausen - for Porsche
Samurai - For Japanese paints
Scuderia - For Italian paints
Shield - a wax with some Teflon content for added protection.

IMO, the above offer no discernable advantage over the waxes I've described above. They've probably been introduced in response to a competitor launching similar products. If you consider there are, IIRC, 3 major paint manufacturers supplying the worlds demand for auto paint I just don't see a need for a speciality wax to suit one marques paints need. 
I've used Saphir and Best of Show on a few exotics and haven't felt they've been lacking....Best of Show looked stunning on a Fezza
The Shield wax I'm indifferent to. It's pitched at the same price level as Saphir and that's the wax I'd suggest gives better results.

Application - The secret to making your wax last is in thin, very thin applications. For once it's a case of less is best. 
When correctly applied it should look no more than a slightly greasy finger has been wiped over the paints surface. The Onyx and Saphir can be applied with a standard decent quality foam applicator. Apply in the shade if possible - it can be done in direct sunlight but it's not ideal. 
Leave for a minimum of 10 minutes before buffing off. I'm happy to wax a whole car and then start buffing off after the car is completely waxed…I've even left a car waxed overnight in a garage before buffing off - it's not a problem to remove.

If possible let the car sit in the sun for an hour or two and let the warmth work on the wax, a quick buff off and I'll apply the second coat. That will see you protected for around 3-4 months…it's all very, very easy!

The cleaner fluid and waxes will leave no dust and will not stain trim or seals. The only exceptions that I'm aware off are some Golfs, Volvo's and Saabs.

I think that pretty much sums what I like about Swissol. There are other products that are worthy of mention. For now that's enough - the remainder will have to wait for another day

I'm sure there will be questions. If you have any, ask away! I'm more than happy to help.

Before I forget, a question was asked about the Swissol wax kits supplied with RR's.
The wax is specially blended by Swissol for RR. It won't be one the cheaper waxes, it's not available from Swissol GB so don't ask! Apparently it's only available through RR dealers on a RR part No…no doubt at an RR price too!

Hope it's not too long winded, I really wanted to cover most of the aspects on choosing, using and getting the best from Swissols product.

Grammar, spelling errors etc - sorry!

A few pics below...not the greatest (I'm not a photo whiz kid) They're untouched, unsharpened or whatever - straight out of the camera. Majority are taken by customers and are posted with their permission - thanks 
One day I will make a point of learning how to use camera and snapping a few shots myself...then again, I'm happy letting happy customers take their own and post them around the bazzars thus maintaining my modest status

You don't get a lot for your "hard earned" - but it will lsat a long time










And what's inside - the specks are pieces of foam from the applicator. Smells nice though and all the girls love it










The prep products










Well, that's a little boring - lets see what's involved and the end results are like

After cleaner fluid but no wax yet










Wax, first coat of "Best of Show"..it may give an idea of how thinly (remember the greasy fingers!) the wax should be applied










After wax










Another and that's enough of that car - thanks D










Lets try a red car, Saphir this time










The girl in the background made a nice genuine comment and then tripped over the pavement!










Something in Silver - Saphir again

Temporarily removed - too big!

Nightmare new C4S straight from the dealer who for some reason or other attacked it with a dirty pad on a rotary...heartbraking to see the neglect caused. Swissol Medium Cleaner fluid / BoS. Perfect at the end of the day










Another...I could have licked this car if the owner hadn't been looking!










Bikes too - A Harley Ltd Ed










Mrs J-i-a-B's weekend plaything (it's not me anymore!) Saphir'ed at the start of this year.










And hasn't been given anything other than a regular wash with Johnsons's Baby Bath since This pic was recently taken after a wash about 4 weeks ago - little doubt the the finish is still there. Car gets used most w/e's and travels a fair bit around the country. Also won a Scottish PCGB Concours event in Setember with nothing more than a wash and wipe with Swissol's "Quick Finish"










Lastly, I car I loved doing despite 12 hours in the cold. 10 year old 993










I think that'll do for now - I'll have admin chasing for using all their bandwidth!

I do have some pics of the Medium cleaner finish in action. They really are worth a look - but I can't find them just now But will!

Thanks for reading - and looking

Dave

Dave


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## Refined Reflections (May 12, 2006)

Nice info cheers.

One small point though...

Smaller pics would have been nice so not having to scroll across the page to read. Most use 800x600 to save this problem. I nearly quit reading after 2 lines.


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## jedi-knight83 (Aug 11, 2006)

hi dave... any chance in resizing the large silver tt pic... i want to read but have to keep scrolling from side to side.

ta


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

I've removed the Siver pic - haven't a clue about pic resizing...always thought photobucket resized the pics automatically to size suitable for internet posting 

Are the remainder causing a need to scroll?

D


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## jedi-knight83 (Aug 11, 2006)

nice write up dave.. (despite having to scroll from side to side on my 1280px wide screen  )

Some genuine questions.

You mention applying wax . buffing off after 10 mins min.. then leaving for 2 hrs approx and then applying a second coat? I was under the impression that without 24hr curing time the second layer would remove alot of the first layer?

Also. the prices are very favorable compared to the (in my humble opinion) slightly overpriced zymol waxes... but is this because the swissol pots are actually half the size of the zymol ones?

thanks

Nathan


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## Johnnyopolis (Oct 25, 2005)

That RS6 is a member on here's old car I believe Detail Finish..?? 

Great writeup once again Dave  

Go get yourself a cup of tea now..! 

Cheers, 

Johnny


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## jedi-knight83 (Aug 11, 2006)

also. can you comment on how you rate the swissol waxes compared to Pinnacle Souveran

thanks


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

I've never noticed a problem with the second coat removing the first...if it is removing it, I don't know where it's going as my cloths don't feel wax laden!

The coats are that fine and thin I don't think it's an issue.

Well, discounts can be had on the Swissol (that's all I'll say on the subject of price) Swissol tubs contain 200ml - off the top of my head I think the Zymol tubs contain 8oz - probably US ounces...smaller or bigger than Uk ounces? I don't know. Is 8 whatever ounces bigger/smaller than 200ml? again, I don't know 

As mentioned earlier, it's the route you have to travel to obtain the final result that matters - if that means I'm I'm paying a small to modest premium for the Swissol, I'm happy with that.

Dave


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

Great write up Dave ,lovely photos also 
If memory serves me right then 8 oz is roughly 237 ml


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

Pinnacle Souveran - got it and it's sitting on the shelf pretty much unused. It was fine as a Summer wax, I didn't particlarly rate in the durability stakes.
I wouldn't rely on it for Scottish winter road protection 

Easy to use, cheap (I bought mine in the US).
Gave it to my son and he preferred the bottom of the range Swissol Onyx for finish....that's from a kid who has no real product knowledge - simply based on user experience which is perhaps not a bad way to judge a product?

It's horse's for course's...some like it, that's fine. I'm not on a mission to convert, simply offer thoughts on another, not so well known brand.

Dave


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

Johnnyopolis said:


> That RS6 is a member on here's old car I believe Detail Finish..??
> 
> Great writeup once again Dave
> 
> ...


Thanks Johnny...stuff the tea - another bottle of that Chablis will do as a night-cap

Yes, that's his RS6, or should say was his!

Dave


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## jedi-knight83 (Aug 11, 2006)

ok im anal so i looked it up

8 ounce [US, liquid] = 8.326 741 881 ounce [UK, liquid]

8.326 741 881 ounce [UK, liquid] = 0.236 588 237 liter

Bang on it seems David G


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

david g said:


> Great write up Dave ,lovely photos also
> If memory serves me right then 8 oz is roughly 237 ml


Some memory you have there David - v.impressed

Dave


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

A very interesting read indeed! :thumb: I'm sure I will have questions, but I'll be sure to ask you!


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

Fantastic write up. I will be in touch!


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

Dave, I can't help but hear your voice in my head when I read your posts, they just missing the odd 'och' or 'listen' :lol:

Good introduction :thumb:

I've been using Zymol for some time and took the plunge with Swissol on the last two details I have done.

All I can say is OMG!!!! The Best of Show is amazing. Admitedly they were both black cars, but the results knocked me back.

I know Dave you not looking at a comparision, but me and my unscientific eyeball test, side-by-side, Swissol will be the way forward for me.

One of the main benefits I have found is the the Cleaner Fluid is so easier to remove and the results stunning. Compare to HD-Cleanse which is the Devil's own work. I find that important when your doing a full detail in a day and have an expectant customer.

E60 M5, Cleaner Fluid and Best of Show wax by hand....


















PS: Nice RS6


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

Johnnyopolis said:


> That RS6 is a member on here's old car I believe Detail Finish..??


Johnny are you spying/researching on me? LOL

Its detailfinish btw


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Damon I saw your car on the Rs website when it was first done ....


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

WHIZZER said:


> Damon I saw your car on the Rs website when it was first done ....


I know Bill it was just a gentle tease/banter comment


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## roofaS (Jun 24, 2006)

detailfinish said:


> Johnny are you spying/researching on me? LOL
> 
> Its detailfinish btw


Funny that, I was looking through your portfolio, old geezer doing the RS6 had me a bit confused - I was going to ask if it was your dad


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## martyn (Nov 28, 2005)

Concourso is by far my fav wax!

Is it exactly the same thing as Best os Show wax?


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

Don't talk about Dave like that :doublesho


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

roofaS said:


> Funny that, I was looking through your portfolio, old geezer doing the RS6 had me a bit confused - I was going to ask if it was your dad


It's "Silver Fox" to you, young man

D


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Very insightful:thumb: :thumb: 

Now you've got me tempted to get some  


Are the Swissol/vax approved detaialers done like The Zymol ones, where they'll only let there be one in a certain area??


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## roofaS (Jun 24, 2006)

jac-in-a-box said:


> It's "Silver Fox" to you, young man
> 
> D




Was a fantastic finish on the RS6 - lovely deep gloss:thumb:


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Alex L said:


> Very insightful:thumb: :thumb:
> 
> Now you've got me tempted to get some
> 
> Are the Swissol/vax approved detaialers done like The Zymol ones, where they'll only let there be one in a certain area??


Don't think so Alex


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## AR-CoolC (Feb 9, 2006)

I contacted Swissol after the Motor show this year, you fill out a little questionare about what car you have and the way it's looked after etc, they then send through a sugested wax for your car (along with the price list thats what I was after).

Their sugestion was Saphir, it was a nice supprise that they didn't just suggest the most expensive wax in the bunch.

I maust admit I do fancy trying out the Saphir, I might get the wife to buy me a pot plus cleaner fluid for crimbo :thumb: 

J-I-T-B 
Can we buy these products through you? or de we need to go through Swissol UK?

It would be nice to see a Swissol seller in the traders section :thumb:


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Very nice pics guys and great writeup.


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## jedi-knight83 (Aug 11, 2006)

thing i still cant get my head around is here you are promoting swissol and it sound great

but if a pro detailer wants to use it (zymol aswell) they either have to pay a ridiculous ammount of money to be approved, be in an area where there isnt already an approved detailer, or risk court action.

... no matter how good a wax is... i still feel they are shooting themselves in the foot with this ridiculous rule.

Im actually gonna start seeking legal advice to see which copyright, trademark law i would be braking by using these in a pro capacity... even if i put a statement on my site saying im not aproved.

Politics aside... they look like great products. shame lots wont be allowed to use them!


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

To pick up on a fe points so far..

martyn - "Concoursco" is the same as "Best of Show" *see note at bottom though

Alex L /Andy C - as an "approved" Swissol fella you pretty much get an area which is yours. Fairly loosely defined though. Although all of Scotland is mine, I often work out of area, but I'm sensitive of other Swissol detailers should I go no near their area. As I've said before, the Swissol group in UK are a pretty friendly and easy going bunch.

* I should've said in my initial post ...Swissol have recently tweaked the recipe of their current waxes - for the better. The blue /green hues have gone as has the "bubblegum" aroma. The waxes are now varying shades of beige and now smell of papya/pashion fruit.The ladys seem to be quite taken with it.

The tweaking has improved the overall finish and made the products even easier to use than the previous blue/green iterations.
Onyx will now give results similar to old Saphir. New Saphir isn't too far off the old BoS; the new Bos, well, it's still the king of the pile for *me*

Dave


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## Roo (Mar 25, 2006)

I haven't really got much to add, but just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to do the review and post some great pictures! it makes interesting reading! :thumb:


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

Dave ,a quick question if i may .
What are the application methods for the waxes i.e by hand or by foam applicator?

I also noticed that you can apply the cleaner fluid by pc which i believe the same cant be done HD cleanse if i am correct .How does the cleaner fluid differ?


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

> thing i still cant get my head around is here you are promoting swissol and it sound great
> 
> but if a pro detailer wants to use it (zymol aswell) they either have to pay a ridiculous ammount of money to be approved, be in an area where there isnt already an approved detailer, or risk court action.
> 
> ...


Hi Nathan,

Unlike Swissol you don't have to pay anything to be a Swissol detailer. You just have to prove to them that you are up to the job and you will carry the name forward. They do restrict authorised detailers to areas of the country so there isn't an overlap as such.

If you have proved to them worthy, they will ask you to go on a two day training course to run through all the products and techniques. After that if they are still satisfied you are the man for the job, thats it you are up and running.

If you have any questions I would just phone them up, they are approachable people!


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

David - Onyx goes on with a standard foam applicator, thin being the key and wipe off. Not used the higher grade Swissol waxes (yet - more stuff for Lou to get cross about  ) but in terms of pricing vs. Zymol they look mighty tempting indeed.

I struggled with Cleaner Fluid by hand but I suspect it was user error rather than product as I did find that it covered swirls slightly better than HD-C but I didn't like the stickiness it left behind at all - more trial needed I think perhaps even including machine application :thumb:

EDIT - thanks for the input Tim; seems Swissol may be more reasonable and less prone to litigation than Zymol then?


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## jedi-knight83 (Aug 11, 2006)

CleanYourCar said:


> Hi Nathan,
> 
> Unlike Swissol you don't have to pay anything to be a Swissol detailer. You just have to prove to them that you are up to the job and you will carry the name forward. They do restrict authorised detailers to areas of the country so there isn't an overlap as such.
> 
> ...


but if the is already a detailer in my area (which there is) regardless of how good i might be i wont have the opportunity to use the waxes.

seems a bit dumb to me. i can see the thinking in having only so many 'approved' people... but to stop others using it is madness.

Is autoglym or megs did that im sure we would all kick up just as much of a fuss


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## Robbieben (Feb 19, 2006)

Great informative write up, I've been considering trying the Best of Show wax for a while now, think I'll order some now


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

AndyC said:


> David - Onyx goes on with a standard foam applicator, thin being the key and wipe off. Not used the higher grade Swissol waxes (yet - more stuff for Lou to get cross about  ) but in terms of pricing vs. Zymol they look mighty tempting indeed.
> 
> I struggled with Cleaner Fluid by hand but I suspect it was user error rather than product as I did find that it covered swirls slightly better than HD-C but I didn't like the stickiness it left behind at all - more trial needed I think perhaps even including machine application :thumb:
> 
> EDIT - thanks for the input Tim; seems Swissol may be more reasonable and less prone to litigation than Zymol then?


Cheers Andy :thumb:

The products certainly look good and the write up from J I T B backs up the theory behind the brand.
I suppose the proof is in the pudding :thumb:


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## Roo (Mar 25, 2006)

I certainly haven't used Swissol products since they have been reformulated, however, I noticed with the older cleaner fluid that it was okay as long as it was really really thoroughly worked against the paint. Provided that this was done, I didn't experience any of the stickiness or difficulty that some people are talking about on here, and found its to leave a really nice clean surface, ready for wax.  am very tempted to try out some of the new reformulated range, particularly the best of show wax.


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

> EDIT - thanks for the input Tim; seems Swissol may be more reasonable and less prone to litigation than Zymol then?


From what I gather yes they are more reasonable, however you still need to approved if you are advertising the fact that you are a Swissol detailer in the same way as Zymol. For obvious reasons they will want to keep detailers/retailers advertsing Swissol approved and restrict access to this as the approved people at the end of the day are the ones making a living based on the brand and that needs to be maintained. Not just to maintain the brand to keep the level of both standard and service.

Having open access to the brand IMHO would de-value the position of those that have built their business retailing a premier brand.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Couldn't agree more Tim - and from a business prespective you'd want to charge a higher price when using a premium brand I guess; apart from anything else you're paying more to buy the products in the first place.

I'd say questions regarding how to become approved need to be directed to Swissol initially but doubtless I'll get flamed for suggesting that as with the Zymol Q&A thread  

Been playing with Swissol over the last few weeks but not the Cleaner Fluid; one guess what I'll be doing this weekend


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## Roo (Mar 25, 2006)

AndyC said:


> Been playing with Swissol over the last few weeks but not the Cleaner Fluid; one guess what I'll be doing this weekend


Andy, if you get time please would you update this thread and let us how you get on. I for one, would be very interested to see how you rate the new cleaner fluid :thumb:


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

On a side note I guess I should say I have been talking to Swissol for a good few months now and they have been very friendly towards me.

I went to Swissol HQ met and talked with them and have been building towards adding the products to my site. Thats not been easy due to a few other issues going on in the background particularly over the past few weeks. The main reason due to taking over operations of the CARSparkle website (announcement coming) and trying to get a grip on that whilst juggling another of the range I currently stock.

Around that I have been busy bulding a spin off of the site to incorporate the Swissol brand. This has not been easy as I felt the products and the brand required their own section and building and populating this is something that has taken/taking longer than I would have liked but something I wanted to get right.

I don't pretend to have the same product knowledge as Dave but have have many of the products and I'm very excited about being able to stock them as I have to say testing has been a joy.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Nice one Tim


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Nice one Tim.


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

good news tim


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

Nice one ,good luck with the new line.
:thumb:


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## donnyboy (Oct 27, 2005)

Interesting stuff here and a good read.

I think JimTT has a few Swissol products. I remember he liked the Sapphire on his TT.


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## MattH (Oct 9, 2006)

Cool... Can I ask if the cleaner is a good prep to use regardless of what wax /sealant you put on the top ?

Was tempted by all the talk of BOS til I saw the price so will stick with collinite for now.. but I am on the lookout for a good paint cleaner/wax remover etc etc

Cheers

Matt


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

david g said:


> Dave ,a quick question if i may .
> What are the application methods for the waxes i.e by hand or by foam applicator?
> 
> I also noticed that you can apply the cleaner fluid by pc which i believe the same cant be done HD cleanse if i am correct .How does the cleaner fluid differ?


David, I apply the waxes by hand. The Onyx and Saphir can be applied very rapidly. Wax a mid sized car in under 20 minutes. The BoS will take considerably longer as you will be massaging the wax onto the paint with your palms (the old BoS could be applied with an applicator - the new version doesn't work to well in that way - for me) I'm happy to admit my technique with the "massaging" isn't 100%, but I manage!

I know some do apply the waxes using a soft PC pad - I haven't tried I'm happy with "my way", but it can be done.

HD Cleanse I can only apply by hand (another reason for my "gritting my teeth" comment earlier)
The cleaner fluid works well with the PC because it has a high proportion of oils and remains workable for longer. The HD cleanse seems to clog in the pad and go off too quickly to be worked onto the paint with a PC.

If I can hi-jack your quote and my answer to address a few comments about the "stickiness" some experence when using the cleaner fluid...

I regard the cleaner fluid as an integral part of the paint preservation process. To miss out the cleaner fluid is to not give the wax it's chance to show it's true potential in terms of finish and durability.
The cleaner fluid will leave a slightly tacky surface...this is a by-product of using the CF and the polishing oils. This tackyness will ensure maximum bonding of the wax. You will find when the first coat of wax is applied, the applicator (or your hands) will tend to "drag" a little - it's not a problem. Your second coat of wax will glide on effortlessly.

Not marketing BS but fact based on experience!

I have in the past dabbled with "mixing and matching" and yes, the wax will sit comfortably on other products - it just won't last as long.

But key to getting the best from the Cleaner Fluid is time and effort - please, don't be tempted to take shortcuts. 
It's the "polish"...work at it to get the best possible shine / gloss. The wax is simply going to protect and enhance that gloss

Dave


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

Roo said:


> Andy, if you get time please would you update this thread and let us how you get on. I for one, would be very interested to see how you rate the *new* cleaner fluid :thumb:


Roo, the cleaner fluid formulation hasn't changed - it remains the same. See my last post if you have any difficulties with CF

Dave


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## Stevie G (Mar 4, 2006)

Very interesting reding indeed and certainly something I will be adding to my list for santa 

BTW If anyone based in N or S.Ireland Swissol are looking for Swissol Detailers if anyone is interested :thumb:


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

MattH said:


> Cool... Can I ask if the cleaner is a good prep to use regardless of what wax /sealant you put on the top ?
> 
> Was tempted by all the talk of BOS til I saw the price so will stick with collinite for now.. but I am on the lookout for a good paint cleaner/wax remover etc etc
> 
> ...


YES, the cleaner fluid is the crucial step towards a brilliant finish. The wax is the icing so to speak. The cleaner fluid will give the wax the best chance of adhering to the paintwork. Skip this step and not only would it not look so good but reduce the longevity of your efforts.
BOS is expensive but bear in mind how long it will last you. Add it to your other half/families Wish list for Christmas!

Tim


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

CleanYourCar said:


> From what I gather yes they are more reasonable, however you still need to approved if you are advertising the fact that you are a Swissol detailer in the same way as Zymol. For obvious reasons they will want to keep detailers/retailers advertsing Swissol approved and restrict access to this as the approved people at the end of the day are the ones making a living based on the brand and that needs to be maintained. Not just to maintain the brand to keep the level of both standard and service.
> 
> Having open access to the brand IMHO would de-value the position of those that have built their business retailing a premier brand.


That just about sums it up Tim

Swissol will want to position themselves at the top of a growing and aggressively competitive market. They have the products, support and service to justify their aim.

They work away quietly and have a foothold with some of the prestige marques...RR and their kits with a custom wax. Mercedes are now supplying kits with their cars and Porsche must have given tacit approval to Swissol when they give them "free advertising" in Porsche's Lifestyle mag, Christorphorous

It might not be the news than aspiring detailers seeking approved status want to hear...flooding the detailing business with approved Swissol users would ineviatably cause a percieved dilution of the brand. With the greatest of respect to the users of AG or Megs (I'm not product knocking!) we're taking about a brand pitched at a different level...that's a statement genuinely made without wanting to sound arrogant - please, accept it as such

Anway, I'm speaking on a subject that's not in my remit to spout about!
However, Swissol is a business and it's ultimately about selling goods. I'm reasonably sure that Swissol wouldn't be adverse to detailers using the products professionally but I think promoting your business on the back of Swissols brand and using the Swissol logo would be something best discussed with Swissol GB.

Regardless of where and at what target branding Swissol want to go for, the products works as well on a Ford as they do on a Buggati. They're accessable to all, I can provide the user support...and that is the aim of the thread

Dave


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## Lespaul (May 23, 2006)

Very interesting read this, I've used the Shield wax on my previous car along with the cleaner fluid and got excellent results. Still have half a tub of shield wax and a bottle of cleaner fluid, am very tempted to get the pc out and try it on the Golf this weekend now 

Pics of my old vRS which had just had a rub over with cleaner fluid and a coat of shield wax can be found here, please remember it was long before I found this site and I didn't own a pc either then 

Darren


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## Roo (Mar 25, 2006)

jac-in-a-box said:


> Roo, the cleaner fluid formulation hasn't changed - it remains the same. See my last post if you have any difficulties with CF
> 
> Dave


Thanks Dave, that's good news! As per my post above:


Roo said:


> I noticed with the older cleaner fluid that it was okay as long as it was really really thoroughly worked against the paint. Provided that this was done, I didn't experience any of the stickiness or difficulty that some people are talking about on here, and found its to leave a really nice clean surface, ready for wax.


Glad this will still apply! Just have the reformulated waxes to look forward too now, in the new year :thumb:


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

I noticed on the Swissol site, theres a couple of detailers in the same-ish areas.

Also whats the 'Mystery' wax like?


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## blr123 (Oct 26, 2005)

Hi Dave,

You and the other Dave (KG) been having a chinwag then.........that's his sort of write ups aswell.........nice one :thumb: 

Looking forward to seeing it in action..........if I'm invited  

Bryan


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

blr123 said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> You and the other Dave (KG) been having a chinwag then.........that's his sort of write ups aswell.........nice one :thumb:
> 
> ...


Watch out with this one Dave, he'll end up buying all your kit and you'll have none left  :doublesho


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## jedi-knight83 (Aug 11, 2006)

jac-in-a-box said:


> That just about sums it up Tim
> 
> Swissol will want to position themselves at the top of a growing and aggressively competitive market. They have the products, support and service to justify their aim.
> 
> ...


Good reply Dave.

Thats what i was trying to get at. Im not wanting to advertise off the back of using swissol and i dont want to step on peoples toes (im sure ive used that phrase before somewhere) But i would like to be albe to quitely use a wax (maybe have it listed on my site as a wax the customer can choose but no more than that) without the risk of a law suit.

Who would you recommend talking to at swissol? i had a look on their sait but couldnt find a contact. (maybe a reply to that via PM would be good?)

Cheers Dave... keep the good info coming.

I would just like to say ... although these swissol (and of course) zymol waxes are good... i still dont think the margin is that huge between the rest of the competition... especially when good time has been spent on the paint prep. Of the 2 DB9s ive done this month.. one with zymol and one with AG / Megs / collinite... i would be hard pushed to spot the difference.... although my hands smelt nicer after one of the jobs. :thumb:


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## autoperfection (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi

I am new to this forum and have found this thread an interesting read.

i have just become a swissol detailer.
My disision to go swissol was was based on a number of things that they seemed better on than their competitors not just the products!. I dont know if i should type why through fear of any possible combacks?

The products themselves although at the uper end of the market price wise are excellent and last!! They are easy to use which is great.

Swissol themselves are very approachable and are a fantastic bunch of people who are really passionate about what they do. Also they are honest - they wont upsell for the sake of money - it means more than that to them.
i think if anyone is interested in swissol you should talk to them.

i have tried most of them and i rate swissol as some of the best.

thanks
JIM


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

haha ok.. Few questions here..

1. Car Bath... Any good??

2. See the sheild wax and the shield wax with paint rubber set what exactly is that?? 

3. Who's going to buy some then??...lol i'm tempted to be honest some...samurai.. maybe or the shield wax looks not bad stuff.


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## SDP (Oct 17, 2006)

Ditto - we are not long authorised 

The products are absolutely top notch in terms of application and finish although for obvious reasons I cannot comment on durability from personal experience.

The Swissol guys are top too - very helpful and very friendly.

The product range is pretty wide - much more than cleaners/waxes.

Recommended!


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## scoobyc (May 29, 2006)

Grizzle said:


> haha ok.. Few questions here..
> 
> 1. Car Bath... Any good??
> 
> ...


i'm sure the paint rubber set is a clay bar! I bought the shield starter kit 3 or 4 years ago and it came with a clay bar which if i remember right was called a paint rubber. I always liked the swissol stuff better than the zymol i had before (japon if i remember right) and was very pleased with the results and still put it on some of the cars i do, but having found this site i realised i could get a very similair result and in some cases better using cheaper products.:thumb:


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## blr123 (Oct 26, 2005)

Dave (JIAB) you have PM :thumb: 

Bryan


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

scoobyc said:


> i'm sure the paint rubber set is a clay bar! I bought the shield starter kit 3 or 4 years ago and it came with a clay bar which if i remember right was called a paint rubber. I always liked the swissol stuff better than the zymol i had before (japon if i remember right) and was very pleased with the results and still put it on some of the cars i do, but having found this site i realised i could get a very similair result and in some cases better using cheaper products.:thumb:


ahh ok you have probably saved me 80+ quid now haha cheers

:thumb:


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

Grizzle said:


> haha ok.. Few questions here..
> 
> 1. Car Bath... Any good??
> 
> ...


Car bath is very good so just buy the 470ml bottle and not the 250ml!
Shield wax AFAIK is not such a high %age carnuaba and has teflon in it too, so the shine wont be as high as say sahpir or best of show but it will last. The paint rubber is yes, also known as the clay bar. Paint rubber set...well I think that comes with the clay bar and also a bottle of quick finish (liquid carnuaba weak solution to act as a lubricant)
Shield wax TBH tends to be used on leading edges ie bumpers and the like where you are after lasting protection and use a higher grade of wax for the remainder of the car.
Personally (not workwise) I like best of show as love the look but do get very good results with saphir. Onyx is great on black/dark cars but seems not to last as long as 40% or above carnuaba content waxes. I have the fabled mystery wax but its not so easy to use though does look excellent once on.
AND yes I am a Swissol approved detailer but am adding comments from my personal perspective

Tim


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

jedi-knight83 said:


> Good reply Dave.
> 
> Who would you recommend talking to at swissol? i had a look on their sait but couldnt find a contact. (maybe a reply to that via PM would be good?)


EDITED

Tim


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## joec (Nov 2, 2005)

swissol was the first proper detailing kit ibought.
one of the many reasons for buying it was that the wax did not leave any white residue etc in the door gaps and places.
still got the cleaner fluid and use i when doing a full session on my own car as swissol say the wax should really go on top of the cleaner to bond properly.

i would definetley buy the wax again.
(but davidg stays to close to me so i usually go for cg's bits)


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

A little more info on a product I mentioned in the first post - The *Medium Cleaner Fluid*

Quick recap - a great Swirl remover that can leave a wax ready finish. Occassionally, the Standard Cleaner Fluid may have to be used for that final polish.
Remember it will take a considerable amount of effort to remove swirls on the Hard paints - Germans etc. On soft paints, it's a lot easier!

Having said that, the pictures I'm showing are of an Audi. It had a recent repray and the product worked because I suspect the paint was not to Audi-VAG specs...whatever. It did come with the usual heavy swirling, associated with less than perfect bodyshop practises. They had made repeated attempts to rectify, but only made matters increasingly worse.

Of all the cars I've treated, this was the one that had me a little worried. The car was swirled all over....Damon (Detailfinish) was amongst the heavyweight audience who came to see if the products, and myself were up to the job - nothing like a little pressure on a job like this!

Pics posted with owners approval.

Pre-treatment as it arrived










Left hand side of bonnet after a couple of passes with PC and Green Das pad










Finished article...I was hugely relieved, the owner was absolutely over the moon....and my audience? Bought me a few beers










Dave


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

That day was awesome Dave, but not as awesome as the job you did :thumb:


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## roofaS (Jun 24, 2006)

Gosh, fantastic results. Dave, you couldn't give a breakdown of the process used on that TT including work times could you? Thanks


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Chaps whilst I appreciate that Swissoll is now allowed on the forum . Can please remind you to read the rules with reagrds advertising 

IF this continues with the advertising , I will close the thread .


Jump and bandwagon spring to mind


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## Admin (Oct 25, 2005)

OMG :doublesho 

Have you all you Swissol guys been told to come here? Or were you all on the same bus! LOL

DWC


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

Quite a large thread has sprung up! Swissol certaintly seems to be the flavour of the month!

I used the shield wax to top a black LCR (at owners request) during the summer. I didn't gte any pics but the owner posted a few on tyresmoke if anyones handy with the search feature 

It was easy to use and did deliver a good finish. The wax was applied directly after menz FP2 by rotary, I wasn't blown away by the wax about on par with say xxx which don't get me wrong is bloody good but I think with the boutique waxes there is almost an expectation? No cleaner fluid was used which may have impacted on the final finish.

I spent an afternoon back in the summer trainining up an approved swissol detailer on rotary tecnique and he said it was free to become one but you had to buy a starter pack?

I think its worth remembering that no wax is a substitute for good prep yet good prep is a substitute for bad wax!


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## Stampy (Mar 1, 2006)

The saphir looks gorgeous on that red TT, I want red paint like that


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## speed-demon (Jan 11, 2006)

Are these waxes really really worth the money!?
Say you did the full work with PC and swirl removel then Klasse AIO and then 2 coats of SG and then 2 coats of Collinite, I doubt this expensive wax will out last it in durability and look any different?
I have never used Swisol and Zymol but I have seen cars with them. I think the Zymol royal is easily noticeable but the rest I think is hype.


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## Stampy (Mar 1, 2006)

As Brazo and many others say, it's all in the preparation.

Having extensively looked at the results (albeit only in pictures) there is a noticeable difference in some of the finishes (Destiny springs to mind) however, it is down to the individual to decide if this is something they will pay a premium for


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

speed-demon said:


> Are these waxes really really worth the money!?


Yes and no. I have great fun playing with zymol atlantique but the finish isn't any 'better' or 'worse' than other LSP's just different.

Its like argueing that blonds are better than brunnettes:lol: No don't go there


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## speed-demon (Jan 11, 2006)

Brazo said:


> Yes and no. I have great fun playing with zymol atlantique but the finish isn't any 'better' or 'worse' than other LSP's just different.
> 
> Its like argueing that blonds are better than brunnettes:lol: No don't go there


If you were given the chance again, would you pay £100 for a tub of atlantiqe?


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

DW Chief said:


> OMG :doublesho
> 
> Have you all you Swissol guys been told to come here? Or were you all on the same bus! LOL
> 
> DWC


:lol:

It reminds me of Gartner's Hype Cycle, I think we are nearing the "Peak of Inflated Expectations".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gartner's_Hype_Cycle

Just joking guys, the pics look great!


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

DW Chief said:


> OMG :doublesho
> 
> Have you all you Swissol guys been told to come here? Or were you all on the same bus! LOL
> 
> DWC


No! There is no "conspiracy" to raise the profile of Swissol...I was surprised to find the number of folk who have an association with Swissol suddenly appearing on the thread!
I genuinely thought I was a loner on here until I started thread.

None-the-less, I do appreciate the lifting of the sanction on the Swissol word for NO other reason than it's product I love using. I'm not a predator using using the forum to boost my sales or sniff for work...most other products get a mention here; I'm simply giving an opinion on another product that the DW members may consider to be a worthy addition to a detailers "goody box"

Dave


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

^^^promise me you wont mention the lifting of the sanction again please :lol:, oh and mention maxtool at you own peril

:thumb:


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

speed-demon said:


> If you were given the chance again, would you pay £100 for a tub of atlantiqe?


Assuming I'd have to keep it and not sell it and it was the full 8oz then:thumb:

Any more though and I would be hesitant


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

WHIZZER said:


> Chaps whilst I appreciate that Swissoll is now allowed on the forum . Can please remind you to read the rules with reagrds advertising
> 
> IF this continues with the advertising , I will close the thread .
> 
> Jump and bandwagon spring to mind


Would be a shame to see that happen. Could I echo Whizzers comments; those with a vested interest in Swissol who are NOT approved traders on DW please take care not post any links /email addresses that could be construed as advertising
This thread took ages to write and my fingers are still sore

For those that have asked if they can buy products from me, the answer has to be no. Sorry.
The forum has guidelines on advertising, I'm aware of them - and I won't break them.

I'm not an approved trader on DW; but as has already been announced, there is an approved DW trader here who will be dealing in Swissol products (in the first few pages of this thread) It's only proper that any enquiries relating to sales be directed there.

Dave


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

roofaS said:


> Gosh, fantastic results. Dave, you couldn't give a breakdown of the process used on that TT including work times could you? Thanks


Thank you

Nothing special really...

Usual wash and clay prep then straight into the Medium Cleaner fluid. PC with a Green DAS pad at a speed of around 3-4. Plenty of Quick Finish detailing spray to keep it well lubed - was a very hot day.

Probably spent around 8 hours on paint from start to finish.

I'd emphasis that despite the extensive swirling, the paint was "soft" enough to let me get away that easily.

Dave


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

jac-in-a-box said:


> For those that have asked if they can buy products from me, the answer has to be no. Sorry.
> The forum has guidelines on advertising, I'm aware of them - and I won't break them.
> 
> I'm not an approved trader on DW; but as has already been announced, there is an approved DW trader here who will be dealing in Swissol products (in the first few pages of this thread) It's only proper that any enquiries relating to sales be directed there.
> ...


sorry to be the **** in this "debate" But in my opinion i feel that this whole topic was a set up to "big" up swissol and to get ppl's interest in the product i know a certain trader is bringing it in and with this topic being here will feel no doubt it will boost sales

personally i find it very sad that the forum is going this way and totally uncalled for ....yet again!... i did ask about a few waxes to yourself dave but the more i think about it and the comments u amde above kinda proves my thoughts.

Graham

( i await even more pm's coming my way  )


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## Thomas-182 (Mar 5, 2006)

Nice read thanks, lovely pics too


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

My post wasnt aimed at DW mods the chief or anyone associated with Detailing world it ws aimed at the swissol posters.

Sorry for any confusion.

Graham


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

You're entitled to form and express your own opinions Graham...unfortunately you've arrived at the wrong one.

Until this morning, I was completely unaware of any other Swissol "users" on DW, let alone anyone setting themselves up to sell the products.

As in the title of the thread...it's no more than my thoughts on the products.

So far, the comments have pretty positive and I don't think anyone else has managed to take the post as anything other than the title suggests.

PM's coming your way? Not from me

Dave


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

Likewise before this post I was unaware of anyone on the forum that had any connection with Swissol. If it was a staged plan I promise you I'd be a lot further down the line with having the shelved stocked and the site ready!


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

CleanYourCar said:


> Likewise before this post I was unaware of anyone on the forum that had any connection with Swissol. If it was a staged plan I promise you I'd be a lot further down the line with having the shelved stocked and the site ready!


whens it live tim?


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

DW Chief said:


> OMG :doublesho
> 
> Have you all you Swissol guys been told to come here? Or were you all on the same bus! LOL
> 
> DWC


I've been a lurker on here for a while but when a Swissol question etc popped up that I felt I could answer, I tried to answer! The site has been invaluable to me as a source of info and its costing me money too.....must resist buying everything that sounds good!
I apologise that one of my posts has had to be edited for "advertising" but someone asked for an email address (not mine I add) and I posted it. Genuinely the address featured the word "sales" but that is his actual address!
Sorry for the offence I may have caused. Keep posting as all the stuff here is great!
Best wishes

Tim (a differant one!)


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## stevie040 (Jun 5, 2006)

Can i just add, that J-I-A-B is a genuine bloke. I have never met and probably never will (Scotlands to cold for me) He was very helpful a while back when i first started getting into detailing. I saw his post on a well known audi forum and no matter how many emails i sent hime with the most stupid questions he always answered.


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## stevie040 (Jun 5, 2006)

Now for one of those quetions david, Can u just run me through what products u would use for a medium swirled audi for example? I have read all through the thread but just want it broken down.


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## Roo (Mar 25, 2006)

Grizzle said:


> sorry to be the **** in this "debate" But in my opinion i feel that this whole topic was a set up to "big" up swissol and to get ppl's interest in the product i know a certain trader is bringing it in and with this topic being here will feel no doubt it will boost sales
> 
> personally i find it very sad that the forum is going this way and totally uncalled for ....yet again!... i did ask about a few waxes to yourself dave but the more i think about it and the comments u amde above kinda proves my thoughts.
> 
> ...


I don't see why you find it fit to pop up here, throw your toys out the pram and complain about this particular brand being talked about and moaning that people might buy it. I mean, not like others are posting up all over the forum in other threads 'bigging' products up...is it now! Spot the difference....

IMO this happens all over the forum. All the advertising and general commercial posting is getting a bit much, but then without it there wouldn't be a forum I suppose. Just wish people would think a bit about what it does to the user experience. All the *****ing is getting tiring to read. All I care about is enjoying detailing and the products and improving.


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Well said Roo but can we try to keep it friendly - I think Graham's post may have been taken slightly out of context.

I personally think there's quite a few Swissol users been lurking out there in DW but keeping quiet about it due to a) some of the previous issues which I won't bother raking up again as there's frankly no need and b) some of the flaming that starts whenever Swissol or Zymol get discussed!


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## Roo (Mar 25, 2006)

Andy's right. Sorry for the tone of that post Griz, and if I haven't taken what you said in the manner intended. There was no need to get unfriendly about it.

Was more trying to make a general point that most threads will have an element of sales about them, that's all, but it's also important to remember why we all come here: to enjoy detailing, the products and to learn and improve.:thumb:


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Ah dont worry i got a scratch needing far more attention...


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

I think that it’s great that the Swissol brand has finally made a positive entry onto these DW boards. It always seemed a shame that some of the very good work carried out by the Swissol detailers was excluded from the forum / show it off. I fully understand the reason why though. This addition can only be a positive to the site, making it a more rounded discussion on the subject of premiere wax treatments. We’re looking forward to picking up more great ‘pro’ tips from the seasoned detailers like J.I.A.B. 

I am also happier that an approved trader off here has taken the steps to take this brand onboard. The ability to get advice from a trader we trust always greatly assists my purchasing decisions, instead of having to invest in product ranges blind. I don’t think that I’d have invested in my Zymol bits if it hadn’t have been for the great product advice I received from C&S.


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

stevie040 said:


> Now for one of those quetions david, Can u just run me through what products u would use for a medium swirled audi for example? I have read all through the thread but just want it broken down.


I'm going to hold back on an answer for now Stevie...Dave KG and blr123 are coming to visit me on Sunday with some prep' products and we'll explore the best way of tackling such problems. My boy has offered his swirly BM up as test piece - similar paint, so I'll give an answer early next week.

Otherwise, my advice would have been as in post's #69 and 85

How are you intending to tackle the problem - hand or PC?

And - who are you?! TTF? It's driving me nutts

Dave


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## stevie040 (Jun 5, 2006)

my forum name on rs246.com is stevieyid. Im onto working with PC. Il email u from my email address to jog your memory.


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## Jules (May 21, 2006)

If you think about it logically, there is no 'sudden influx' of swissol detailers. Quite a few people seem to use it, or have used it in the past, but this has until very recently been a banned subject and if you do a search (as I did when I first joined) Discussions about swissol were few and far between.

Add to this Swissol's own effects to raise it's image (outside this forum ) by becoming affiliated with big brands, this interest is bound to mount up.

JIAB starts making posts about Swissol and the 'gang' are already here being 'closet Swissol users', ready to discuss it.

Surely that's a testament to the product that it is banned from being discussed, yet so many people know that it's a bloody good product?

Makes sense to me........

Anyway - REVEALATION - I didn't realise that the cleaner fluids could be used with a PC? would there be any problems with using a cyclo with these products? 

Jules


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## Refined Reflections (May 12, 2006)

I for one am pleased that Swissol detailers are here posting and giving information, however I am starting to feel that some of the posts are edging towards 'this is the only way to go'. I hope this is not going to be the norm and maybe I'm wrong, however I also hope that the Swissol detailers accept that many members here can and do produce results as good with long life with so called lesser product.

I will openly admit that I haven't used any Swissol products, so won't comment on its usability etc, but I will be getting some just so I am better informed, I will also take what has been posted on board as I like to be better informed.


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

Using with a Cyclo? I don't "think" you'll have any problems...I know one user who use's CF on a rotary with a wool bonnet - gets good results by all acounts! It's a pretty forgiving and flexible product - I'd like to hear how you get on.
Perhaps have a go on scrap panel first?

IIRC A cyclo is the twin-head polisher? Intriguing machine that I've recently read a lot about 
Not sure what speed range the Cyclo operates in - I'd have thought slow speed and definately soft pads would be the way to go . 

Dave


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

^^Well I've used a cyclo but not the cleaner fluid lol

Very similer to a pc so should be fine!!


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## blr123 (Oct 26, 2005)

I'll bring a Cyclo on Sunday Dave.......well a Smartool (same thing) :thumb: 

Bryan


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

Refined Reflections said:


> I for one am pleased that Swissol detailers are here posting and giving information, however I am starting to feel that some of the posts are edging towards 'this is the only way to go'. I hope this is not going to be the norm and maybe I'm wrong, however I also hope that the Swissol detailers accept that many members here can and do produce results as good with long life with so called lesser product.
> 
> I will openly admit that I haven't used any Swissol products, so won't comment on its usability etc, but I will be getting some just so I am better informed, I will also take what has been posted on board as I like to be better informed.


Fair comment!

I'd like to think that my words were chosen with sufficient care so that *I*didn't convey that impression ie I haven't said "this is the one you need and all others are a waste..." Having said that, I'm confident it is the one for me.

I'm receptive to new products that recieve favourable reviews here and elsewhere - and I do try them (I have a shed full of products that will bear testament to that)
I've just received a sample of Collinite - I've not given it a go yet, it seems to be a populatr choice here, but who know's? It might just persuade me!

Now that Swissol has been given a little room here, I guess it's ineviatble that those who use it are going to air their views...at the end of the day, those who've expressed their opinion are very much a small proportion of the total membership of DW.

I'm sure life will return to normal soon

Dave


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

blr123 said:


> I'll bring a Cyclo on Sunday Dave.......well a Smartool (same thing) :thumb:
> 
> Bryan


Good man Bryan - extra bacon for you

Dave


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

am i the only one thinking "can we talk products and less politics !!!"


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

182_blue said:


> am i the only one thinking "can we talk products and less politics !!!"


no your not the only one,


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## david g (Dec 14, 2005)

Shaun your not ,im thinking the same ,after all its a detailing discussion forum 

Lets see some more pics of the products in action


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## Roo (Mar 25, 2006)

182_blue said:


> am i the only one thinking "can we talk products and less politics !!!"





Roo said:


> Was more trying to make a general point that most threads will have an element of sales about them, that's all, but it's also important to remember why we all come here: to enjoy detailing, the products and to learn and improve.


As you can see from my post above, I agree totally! :thumb:

Tell us more about the products - has anyone used the mystery or divine? If so do you have some pictures of these on finished details please


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## Phil H (May 14, 2006)

very interesting read! am interested in know more about the Best of Show wax


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

Phil H said:


> very interesting read! am interested in know more about the Best of Show wax


Phil, come over for a mini-meet, I am away detailing this weekend, but lets sort something soon :thumb:


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## Phil H (May 14, 2006)

would love to but how far away are you? am in North Wales lol


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

Phil H said:


> would love to but how far away are you? am in North Wales lol


Chester!!! :lol:


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## Phil H (May 14, 2006)

oh right! about an hour n half for me, excellent, are there any DW meets etc round there i dont know about?


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

Roo said:


> Tell us more about the products - has anyone used the mystery or divine? If so do you have some pictures of these on finished details please


I'm going to have to disappoint you and say no!

I know one person with the Mystery - but no I've pics of a treated car. I'll see if I can get one or two.
I'm not conviced that to spend nearly 3 x the cost of BoS on Mystery would yeild significantly better results.

The Divine at 11 x cost of BoS isn't likely to gracing my shelves either!

I wouldn't mid getting a sample of the Mystery just to confirm my thoughts though

Dave

As well as being friendly we're mean (at least I am )


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

182_blue said:


> am i the only one thinking "can we talk products and less politics !!!"


Here here!!!!! :thumb:


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## SDP (Oct 17, 2006)

Refined Reflections said:


> I for one am pleased that Swissol detailers are here posting and giving information, however I am starting to feel that some of the posts are edging towards 'this is the only way to go'. I hope this is not going to be the norm and maybe I'm wrong, however I also hope that the Swissol detailers accept that many members here can and do produce results as good with long life with so called lesser product.
> 
> I will openly admit that I haven't used any Swissol products, so won't comment on its usability etc, but I will be getting some just so I am better informed, I will also take what has been posted on board as I like to be better informed.


Personally I don't think Swissol is the only way to go. It's merely an approach to the vexed task of prepping and protecting cars.

For some customers; the use of natural (as far as possible) products with an air of exclusivity about them are an important factor in the overall experience of having their car valeted.

Similarly, I would saythat the Swissol guys are as equally interested in how their brand is 'managed' ie pitched into the customer base, the customer experience and the quality of aftercare delivered; as they are re: techical valeting nous.

So what I would say is that Swissol as a brand delivered by authorised detailers will give the customer a technically good product coupled to a great customer experience!

Now that is not to say that non-Swissol valeters can't deliver the same service standards - they obviously can. And its not to say that the use of non-Swissol products will equal inferior results - they obviously don't!

So; my take is that it's all horses for courses really. Swissol is just one of the many horses to get round the course on.


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

Just asked Santa for a Swissol 'Entry Kit' with Onyx Wax... 

A few years ago I was introduced to Swissol that I 'think' was known as wax wizard (I might be wrong) by a good friend of mine who swore by the stuff.

I loved using it but the cost of it put me off so much that I never got round to buying any... these days being a semi-pro detailer and wanting to offer my customers the opportunity to try different waxes Swissol is definately something that I will be offering to my customers once it passes my quality checks 

I am hoping for excellent results... time will tell


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## SDP (Oct 17, 2006)

Grizzle said:


> no your not the only one,


As this thread is posted under wax and lsp I'd say that you are right.

It does however, seem to me that the forum lacks a place to post and discuss some of the issues surrounding the world of detailing.

'Off Top' doesn't seem quite right to me and I can't see anything else. Or am I missing something?


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## Phil H (May 14, 2006)

Engine_Swap said:


> Just asked Santa for a Swissol 'Entry Kit' with Onyx Wax...
> 
> A few years ago I was introduced to Swissol that I 'think' was known as wax wizard (I might be wrong) by a good friend of mine who swore by the stuff.
> 
> ...


looking forward to your test and write up! :thumb:


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Nick Laurie said:


> As this thread is posted under wax and lsp I'd say that you are right.
> 
> It does however, seem to me that the forum lacks a place to post and discuss some of the issues surrounding the world of detailing.
> 
> 'Off Top' doesn't seem quite right to me and I can't see anything else. Or am I missing something?


Its not so much you cant discuss in this section, its just in my own personal opinion the "politics" around swissol has gone far enough, and the talking about "now its allowed", "lifting of bans", & "litigation" etc etc etc is wearing a little thin, lets move on as we are going around in circles , by all means discuss swissol as a product, what it can do, what you can buy, and best of all show some pics :thumb:.


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

182_blue said:


> best of all show some pics :thumb:.


ok....

Both Swissol Cleaner Fluid (mildest) and new formula Best of Show wax


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

The bonnet reflections on the 5 series above are impressive.


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## stevie040 (Jun 5, 2006)

How good is the cleaner fluid at defect removal?


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

stevie040 said:


> How good is the cleaner fluid at defect removal?


****ing good if detailfinish's pics are anything to go by :doublesho


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## stevie040 (Jun 5, 2006)

does look very good. But just want to know how well it removed swirls etc? I may well give it a go. Whats it like with PC?


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## detailfinish (Jul 16, 2006)

To be fair I am using medium cleaner to prepare surface, then Menzerna's range of polishes, before light cleaner then Best of Show


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## JimTT (Feb 19, 2006)

My 2p worth...check the date:thumb: 
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7227


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## stevie040 (Jun 5, 2006)

detailfinish said:


> To be fair I am using medium cleaner to prepare surface, then Menzerna's range of polishes, before light cleaner then Best of Show


Oh right so your not using the swissol products for actual defect removal? Ill have to wait and see the outcome of the tests at the weekend that J-I-A-B etc are doing. That should be a good read


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## Envy Car Care (Aug 17, 2006)

Envy said:


> I have the fabled mystery wax but its not so easy to use though does look excellent once on. No pics though yet but will make sure I do next time!
> 
> Tim


Its a bit steep though.....for general use


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## GlynRS2 (Jan 21, 2006)

My RS4 with Swissol back at the begining of August:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/showthread.php?t=10588


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## Phil H (May 14, 2006)

very impressive! so it could boil down to two choices for me...

Zymol Concours?
or
Swissol Best of Show?


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

stevie040 said:


> How good is the cleaner fluid at defect removal?


Honest answer is it won't...except for the very, and mean very, slightest swirls.
You'll save yourself a lot of lot of frustration by tackling swirls etc with Swissol Med Cleaner fluid first or similar swirl removal product.

The key to the final finish is the standard cleaner fluid and wax. If you do opt for the medium cleaner fluid you can invariably move straight to wax - the finish is that good in 99% + of cases

This is another example of the Medium Cleaner Fluid having done it's work - BMW's bonnet was poorly repaired by body shop (this time it was the paint was as hard as the rest of the car - unlike the TT shown earlier!) So, it was hard work removing the defects. Remainder of car treated with a combination of Med and Standard Cleaner Fluid as required

IIRC the bonnet took around 2.5 hrs to get to an acceptable standard (PC)




























Although the pic doesn't show it too well, the paints flakes really stood out (IIRC Saphire Blue?) First time the owner had seen that effect on his car










Dave


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## stevie040 (Jun 5, 2006)

So the Swissol Med Cleaner fluid contains abbrassives? So if worked correctly by PC it can remove defects from hard paint etc


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

While the majority of oictures shown so far show off the Best of Show - a few pics to show what can be achieved with the less costly Onyx (cheapest) and Saphir (2nd cheapest)

Saphir on a Honda NSX metallic Yellow










Saphir










Saphir










Saphir










Saphir (and a nice car!)










another










Finally the cheapest wax Onyx and treated by a first time user, my kid...who's not known for max effort! A 3 hr detail Still looks reasonable for what was a paintwork neglected car - it's also DaveKG's and blr123's Sunday playpiece



















Dave


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## Refined Reflections (May 12, 2006)

Hows about doing some show off posts rather than just adding to a single post?

I'd rather see information in this thread than pics, sorry


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

stevie040 said:


> So the Swissol Med Cleaner fluid contains abbrassives? So if worked correctly by PC it can remove defects from hard paint etc


Contains abrasives and resin fillers, yes. On soft paints it can work fairly quickly...on harder paints it will take considerably longer. 
On a PC I'd go for an Orange DAS pad initially, then Green Das pad to get the final finish...patience will be the key though!

There are other prep products that might be appropriate for use by hand, PC or rotary for tackling severe swirling that I'm not fully familiar with...but will be looking at this weekend.

It does, of course depend very much on how deep and severe and the swirling is, as to how long it will take to get a satisfactory finish.

Dave

Dave


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

I'm not trying to be negative, or derail this really good thread, but....

Saphir -









Meguiar's #16 wax-


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Steve agree, I think pictures can tell a different story ... I think like some other high end waxes Pinnacle/zymol etc you need to see in the flesh to actullay tell/see any difference.
It took me ages to actually spend £40 on a tub of wax but once i seen the difference i paid up straight away .

(Not saying any of the above have, but photos can be enhanced buy photoshop i.e darken black etc sharpen, Also photographic skills help along with what camera you take the picture with. )

30 year old paint with souveran on


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Cool pic Whizzer, I remember the thread and what you started with.

I'd just rather see more 'process' and less afters, to kind of redress the balance. I know from first hand experience the 'in the flesh' difference applying a premium brand wax made in comparison to a cheaper brand. Mav's R32 springs to mind as one we documented on here. I was privileged to see not only how it looked before and after application of a premium wax, but also the improvement in how it looked in comparison to a cheaper brand wax applied a fortnight earlier.

Not everyone on here may have had that opportunity though, to compare like for like. Just dropping a set of 'money shot' photo's doesn't give fair representation. As refined Reflections said, lets see some full 'Show it Off' posts put up:thumb:


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

Refined Reflections said:


> Hows about doing some show off posts rather than just adding to a single post?
> 
> I'd rather see information in this thread than pics, sorry


The bulk of the information is contained towards the beginning of the thread. 
"How do I..?" " Can I ...?" Answered questions is information I'd have thought?

Members asked for pictures...

Dave


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

L200 Steve said:


> Cool pic Whizzer, I remember the thread and what you started with.
> 
> I'd just rather see more 'process' and less afters, to kind of redress the balance. I know from first hand experience the 'in the flesh' difference applying a premium brand wax made in comparison to a cheaper brand. Mav's R32 springs to mind as one we documented on here. I was privileged to see not only how it looked before and after application of a premium wax, but also the improvement in how it looked in comparison to a cheaper brand wax applied a fortnight earlier.
> 
> Not everyone on here may have had that opportunity though, to compare like for like. Just dropping a set of 'money shot' photo's doesn't give fair representation. As refined Reflections said, lets see some full 'Show it Off' posts put up:thumb:


Nice pic of the Souveran - what car was that?

Fair enough comment too Steve, I see what you'e after now

Dave


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Its a 1970 mulliner park ward (pre corniche) rolls royce ....


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## SiGainey (Jan 29, 2006)

detailfinish said:


> Chester!!! :lol:


Where in CHester fella - same here - PM me if you like :wave:


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Refined Reflections said:


> Hows about doing some show off posts rather than just adding to a single post?
> 
> I'd rather see information in this thread than pics, sorry


Agreed again this post or topic if u like is turning into "look at my work..."

Get it in the show off section buddy

In particular some saphir  Leaning towards gettin some my self.

Graham


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## Finerdetails (Apr 30, 2006)

LSPs..... is there really a great difference?

If prep is top notch, LPSs result is getting harder and harder to separate. Do you drink Nescafe or Kenco? Brand flavour and people's preference make for market competition. Nowt wrong with that and competition makes for price 'wars', opens conversation and gives consumers choices. You makes your choice, you pays your monies, you make your own mind up. I've 'tried' products here and there but if you read my 'show it off' posts I pretty much stick to my products. I know what they can do, I know how to use them, and I know what resutls they can achieve. Brand hoping is a neceassary part of our jobs - we need specific items for specific jobs. But once you have these then you shouldn't need to continually jump around - how do tyou ever fully get the best from them - or your results?

First time I used Souveran, the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. Not since my very first proper detail my years ago had that happened. I've also had opportunities to use Concours this year, better results than others - no not really. But the souveran doesn't carry great durability so the waxes dont compare.

I think the report shows and highlights a product available. We see the suppliers hightlighting the latest Emperor's clothes every month, why should this thread be treated any different?

The detail looks good, the pics look good, the comments appear fair, lets move on


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## jac-in-a-box (Mar 15, 2006)

young_guns said:


> I think the report shows and highlights a product available. We see the suppliers hightlighting the latest Emperor's clothes every month, why should this thread be treated any different?


Agreed.

I think this thread reached it's sell by date. When it starts to attract some adverse comment it'll simply go down hill and its value will be diminished.

Pics: they were asked for - and given. Seems a few would like to look at them as "self-promotion" Nope! 
Dark cars can look good with just about any LSP applied given good photographic technique, lighting conditions etc. However, the acid test is seeing them in the metal 
I threw up a few pics of lightcoloured cars treated with the less costly waxes to show (given the limitations of a photo) that they too, can give a nice result. I'd guess that not everyone would be comfortable spending £100+ plus on a wax.

The photos's are all untouched - I haven't a clue how to "adjust" a pic. 
With the exception of a couple of pics, they're all taken by customers and as far as I'm aware they're "straight out of the camera".

Advice: was given in response to members questions. I'd like to think that will be of use to anyone who invests in the products.

Should the content have split and put in different sections of the forum? Maybe, I'd guess if it had been felt appropriate a mod would have given direction.
Personally I don't think so, there is useful continuity and discussion in the bulk of the thread.

For now, I'll sit on the sideline. If anyone wishes to invest in any of the products mentioned, I'm around to give the support, if needed, to help you get the best from your purchase, as indeed will any of the other Swissol users

Otherwise, it was pleasing to see that a generally good reception was given to the thread and it was taken in the spirit intended. Thanks

Dave


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## Finerdetails (Apr 30, 2006)

Good contribution Dave, welcome to DW. Look forward to seeing more of the Swissol kit, and how its compares with the racks of detailing products now ridding us all of our hard earned cash


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

young_guns said:


> LSPs..... is there really a great difference?
> 
> If prep is top notch, LPSs result is getting harder and harder to separate. Do you drink Nescafe or Kenco? Brand flavour and people's preference make for market competition. Nowt wrong with that and competition makes for price 'wars', opens conversation and gives consumers choices. You makes your choice, you pays your monies, you make your own mind up. I've 'tried' products here and there but if you read my 'show it off' posts I pretty much stick to my products. I know what they can do, I know how to use them, and I know what resutls they can achieve. Brand hoping is a neceassary part of our jobs - we need specific items for specific jobs. But once you have these then you shouldn't need to continually jump around - how do tyou ever fully get the best from them - or your results?
> 
> ...


Well said that man - and glad someone's had the balls to say this :thumb:

I've been thinking this for a fair while now as let's face it, you spend in some cases hours prepping paint for your chosen LSP and that's where the hard work counts. Having now had a chance to try head to head premium brands against budget, the actual final effect is marginal IMHO but crucially there's an edge with certain premium priced products which just isn't there lower down the scale - for me at least.

We all got a bit carried along by the expensive waxes :doublesho from Zymol and the resulting debate that caused - got slightly out of hand but was still a good product debate I feel but let's not forget that Zymol Carbon, Swissol Onyx and Pinnacle Souveran are priced near as dammit the same and give excellent results providing you prep properly - and I've yet to hear or speak to anyone *****ing about the cost of a tub of Pinnacle. The next step down prep products for these 3 are also priced closely too so in reality I suspect the issues stemmed from a) the hype - but that's been done to death and back, b) the silly money glazes from Zymol (ditto) and c) our natural desire to be slightly cynical - not a criticism just an observation!

My personal goal now is to use Swissol Cleaner Fluid via rotary and see just how good it can be - at less than £20 a bottle it's worth it for me and I *think* I have enough Onyx left to use as an LSP  (maybe a perfect excuse to try some Saphir or BOS - and why not!!!)

Dave - thank you for your valuable input, please feel free to continue to post pics up and some more process notes would be helpful too (of course I understand that as a pro you need to keep some secrets  ) and everyone else, thanks for the sensible debate in this thread - again showing how good DW can be.


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