# Rupes da and MF pad vs rotary and wool pad



## charlie20vt (May 8, 2011)

Does rupes da and microfiber pad cut just as good as Rotary 
and wool pad does.

Thanks
Charlie


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## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

not in my opinion when you are striving for perfection on hard paint. But im sure many might disagree. 

If you are not after perfection or working on paint with many RDSs, the rupes will be ok


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Ill disagree 
Ive done over 20 training days on various bonnets and scoured it with hard nylon brushes to almost distruction and all came out. Even did one yesterday with a member off here who runs a detailing company. Hes now adding one to his collection alongside his Flex.
If it didnt you wouldnt be able to get a perfect finish and you can. I would however recommend finishing with a Rotary rather than the microfibre finishing system.
Plenty of people on here can get the same level of correction. Then again i have used over 100 pads now and just had another 20 packs delivered so i am well used to it.


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## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

I've great success with MF pads. I don't own or use a Rupes, but my rotary rarely gets used for compounding now. I was all rotary back in the days, and have spent many hours with one, but I honestly don't get people who still use rotary for compounding. With the right technique, proper correction can be achieved in less time, and often it either finishes up way better than rotary with wool or the imperfections left over by the compounding stage using MF pads/discs are more even. 

Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

So you mean that you get same result with DA but quicker?


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## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

sm81 said:


> So you mean that you get same result with DA but quicker?


Not the same result. A less time consuming result, which has a slightly different finish than when a surface is compounded using rotary and wool. Which I prefer.

Often I find it to finish down better than the same polish would, using rotary and wool.

E.g. :
Black Audi A4. Pad primed with D300 and 3 beads of M101 added to the pad. Worked at speed 4.5 on a DAP900, which is pretty much the same as a DAS-6 PRO. The paint throughout the door was treated with one step between first and last photo. So, the last shot is done just after compounding, and it still needed the finishing step.


























Some of the "scratches" in the finished picture aren't scratches, but is fibres from the MF - but there were some deep scratches left behind. Please note that the paint still was in need of a finishing polish at this point.

Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

Has that been panel wiped after? Not ipa'd or eraser'd? M101 fills Like you wouldn't believe


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Miglior said:


> not in my opinion when you are striving for perfection on hard paint. But im sure many might disagree.
> 
> *If you are not after perfection or working on paint with many RDSs, the rupes will be ok*


I wouldn't have expected a daft comment like that from you Jay...

Yes, the Rupes will cut just as well with the right pad and polish, the process will not be any quicker, but you will be left with less defects to polish out in the next stage. 
I have been getting better results using wool pads via the Rupes, and still finishes down to almost lsp ready, even after all the oils are removed.


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## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

Miglior said:


> Has that been panel wiped after? Not ipa'd or eraser'd? M101 fills Like you wouldn't believe


Fills? As in 'intended filling'? From my testing, I haven't found it to fill like something I wouldn't believe. I believe most compounds contain oils that need to be removed, to visualize the 'truer' finish. 
The finish was either wiped with 60% IPA or Eraser, can't remember which. I wiped it with a silicone remover when I did a test spot on the car, didn't find any difference between the finish it gave me and the finish left by the IPA mix or the Eraser.

Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

I need ONE machine. I may have opportunity to part time job with car dealer. Would polish car dealer cars. Which one you recommend to buy if I have only time to do 2 cars/day and have time to do only 1-step. (I don't want holograms that's for sure)


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## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

Gleammachine said:


> Yes, the Rupes will cut just as well with the right pad and polish, the process will not be any quicker, *but you will be left with less defects to polish out in the next stage. *
> I have been getting better results using wool pads via the Rupes, and still finishes down to almost lsp ready, even after all the oils are removed.


One of the most important points in this debate. :thumb:
I've been able to do 2-step full corrections that would have been 3-step with a rotary. So, less time used over-all.

Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

charlie20vt said:


> Does rupes da and microfiber pad cut just as good as Rotary
> and wool pad does.
> 
> Thanks
> Charlie


Yes, and better finish too, in about the same amount of time. :thumb:

DA with MF pad and SMAT polish will finish just about LSP ready!


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## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

-Raven- said:


> Yes, and better finish too, in about the same amount of time. :thumb:
> 
> DA with MF pad and SMAT polish will finish just about LSP ready!


Doesn't need to be SMAT, compounds like FG400 works just as well on a MF pad. 

I find that less time is spent over all from start to finish, compared to using rotary throughout the process. So, it is faster in that aspect. About the same time is spent on the compounding step, but I would still follow up with some sort of abrasive finishing polish, as clarity improves significantly.

Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

Gleammachine said:


> I wouldn't have expected a daft comment like that from you Jay...
> 
> Yes, the Rupes will cut just as well with the right pad and polish, the process will not be any quicker, but you will be left with less defects to polish out in the next stage.
> I have been getting better results using wool pads via the Rupes, and still finishes down to almost lsp ready, even after all the oils are removed.


Ha, well in the grand scheme of things, not everyone on here nor everyone who wants a car detailing is always willing to go to the nth degree and overcome obstacles to achieving a proper, panel wipe'd 100% perfect finish.


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## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

Ebbe J said:


> Fills? As in 'intended filling'? From my testing, I haven't found it to fill like something I wouldn't believe. I believe most compounds contain oils that need to be removed, to visualize the 'truer' finish.
> The finish was either wiped with 60% IPA or Eraser, can't remember which. I wiped it with a silicone remover when I did a test spot on the car, didn't find any difference between the finish it gave me and the finish left by the IPA mix or the Eraser.
> 
> Kind regards,
> ...


I find M101 to fill a lot more than other compounds, a lot more than most compounds actually. When your working the resins in at a moderate temperature, I find it to fill just as much as it cuts. If not more. I know this wont be a popular opinion, but im not here to be popular in all honest.

The kind of filling capabilities of most compounds these days resist IPA and eraser wipedowns quite easily!


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Miglior said:


> The kind of filling capabilities of most compounds these days resist IPA _*and eraser*_ wipedowns quite easily!


OT:Quite brave opinion It would be nice to see what other says. Like Carpro Andy:lol:

Back to topic. What do you think what Ebbe says: " I find that less time is spent over all from start to finish, compared to using rotary throughout the process. So, it is faster in that aspect. About the same time is spent on the compounding step, but I would still follow up with some sort of abrasive finishing polish, as clarity improves significantly."

Is it so? I have figured what machine I would by next after cyclo copy. Das 6 pro or EP801 rotary..... it looks like there is many opinion about this.


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## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

Not really a brave opinion for someone whos working with this stuff every day and whose best interests it is to know this kind of stuff.

I like eraser, I buy it in 4L bottles, but i dont depend on it when it comes to checking my work. 

Im sure some of the more quality conscious detailers would agree with me too.


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Miglior said:


> I like eraser, I buy it in 4L bottles, but* i dont depend on it when it comes to checking my work. *
> 
> Im sure some of the more quality conscious detailers would agree with me too.


So what's hole point of product? Carpro has made it to prewipe product before coating when you need to be sure that paint is very clean???

But this is offtopic. Maybe moderator can make new thread for this?


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Miglior said:


> Ha, well in the grand scheme of things, not everyone on here nor everyone who wants a car detailing is always willing to go to the nth degree and overcome obstacles to achieving a proper, panel wipe'd 100% perfect finish.


Not really sure how we have got into panel wipes, ipa etc..

The OP asked whether the Rupes would correct as well using MF pads, as that of the rotary on wool.
You reply indicated that if you want a finish that is to an enhancement level or with RDS remaining then the Rupes is ok?
Now this is coming from a die hard Rotary fan of numerous years, IMO the Rupes DA will exceed the cutting stage of the rotary in regards to being more than capable of cutting out deep random scratches and alike, but with the benefit in most cases of just requiring a finishing stage to complete.

I'm not endorsed or linked to Rupes, so have no need to big up their machines, but it took a lot of convincing for me to hang up my rotary so to speak, since adapting my technique and polishing style to suit the Rupes DA, I have been nothing but impressed. 90% of my correction details are carried out on German Marques.


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## TheMattFinish (Jul 17, 2011)

Pretty much all my correction I use my rupes 

Though I still pick up my festool for most cars to do the finishing down and refining as I find it gives a better finish


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## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

Gleammachine said:


> Not really sure how we have got into panel wipes, ipa etc..
> 
> The OP asked whether the Rupes would correct as well using MF pads, as that of the rotary on wool.
> You reply indicated that if you want a finish that is to an enhancement level or with RDS remaining then the Rupes is ok?
> ...


And with that, i value your opinion so i will have another blast with Rupes when I get chance.


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

What Rupes model is everyone refering too


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## CTR De (Feb 10, 2011)

not used the rupes da but since buying my flex twins and spending lots of time testing them ive actually now started correcting with the 3401 da and a foamed wool pad and m101/megs compound mix which cuts really really well then finishing with the rotary and a finishing pad , so if i had to give one up now it would be the rotary but i like having both :thumb:

i would bet money that the rupes da and the right pad be it mf or something else will cut as well as a rotary in the right hands :thumb:


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

I dont know why everyone gets so hung up on fillers?

This isnt aimed at you Jay you know that but sometimes its all about swinging the biggest balls in the industry to just try and put yourself ahead of everyone else because you ipa, panel wipe, eraser and then sh!!t on the panel and wipe with Andrex. Please im sure most people can remove fillers without all the overboard Nasa techniques. Its really not an issue.

Fillers in my opinion should be in all products. Why? Why not?

For the amateur detailer who doesnt want absolute perfection or simply cant get perfection to his abilities its going to help him with a better result.

For the person that is pushed for time like when i have cars like alot of people at exhibitions , Autosport etc its a godsend. I get 2 hours to prepare a car to look as best possible so i rely on fillers because a totally knackered black car will atleast look half presentable in 2 hours.

And finally for the professional hes has the products to remove them, i dont see whats so blindlingly problematic about it? You remove them and their gone, 99% of polishes fill anyway.

A Rupes DA when used correctly with the correct products will give as equal correction as a rotary. Infact i have done it quicker with the Rupes.

I would just say get 20 30 hours with one to learn its traits and product/pad combinations and you,ll find that out.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

sm81 said:


> So what's hole point of product? Carpro has made it to prewipe product before coating when you need to be sure that paint is very clean???
> 
> But this is offtopic. *Maybe moderator can make new thread for this*?


whats stopping you posting one then? lol


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## Black.MB (Aug 22, 2012)

GJM said:


> What Rupes model is everyone refering too


I'd like to know this too! Sounds like LHR21.
I've used LHR15 recently, it's nice and smooth, but I've experienced it cuts slower than rotary (I used FG400 on foam pad on both).


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Black.MB said:


> I'd like to know this too! Sounds like LHR21.
> I've used LHR15 recently, it's nice and smooth, but I've experienced it cuts slower than rotary (I used FG400 on foam pad on both).


I use the 21 but with the 135mm backing plate from the 15, so in theory the same machine as the 15.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

15 for me, i feel the 21 is good for flat panels but not as suitable on curved areas as a 15.

That is obviously just my opinion.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

I've got the 21, and still use my Flex rotary for all the tight stuff. Using the 21 on the panels is much less effort than the rotary too. Nice and smooth! 

Next step is to get the 15 backing plate and give that a go on my 21.


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## Black.MB (Aug 22, 2012)

Gleammachine said:


> I use the 21 but with the 135mm backing plate from the 15, so in theory the same machine as the 15.


Another good vioce for this combo. I'd really like to try it. 21 actually spins a step slower than 15 if you're looking at the OPM speed. But I believe it's the throw that makes the correction.

Just a question for those who use LHR21 with smaller backing plate: are you in most cases able to correct the whole car with this combo or do you need to switch to another machine for smaller panels? Thanks in advance:thumb: (I'm looking to get LH18ENS rotary beside my DAS6 but maybe I can change my mind).


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## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

Miglior said:


> I find M101 to fill a lot more than other compounds, a lot more than most compounds actually. When your working the resins in at a moderate temperature, I find it to fill just as much as it cuts. If not more. I know this wont be a popular opinion, but im not here to be popular in all honest.
> 
> The kind of filling capabilities of most compounds these days resist IPA and eraser wipedowns quite easily!


Well, we have different findings then. And most likely different ways of using M101. Most compounds will need some kind of wipe for the residue and oils to be removed, but if we go into the extremes, even panel wipe can leave things behind.

I've used panel wipe/silicone remover for a long time, and use it on every detail I do. Nothing special about it, other that it's not exactly healthy stuff and that it will definitely remove more than an IPA mix. That's probably why painters use it instead of IPA. 

Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## Smithyc1987 (Feb 2, 2013)

Just about to spend big money on a roatary like the 3m or a flex.
Now im in 2minds wether to keep my das6pro. And spend on pads/conpounds
Was always under the impression that a d/a is more time consuming and harder to get results than rotary.
Soneone pleasd help.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Smithyc1987 said:


> Just about to spend big money on a roatary like the 3m or a flex.
> Now im in 2minds wether to keep my das6pro. And spend on pads/conpounds
> Was always under the impression that a d/a is more time consuming and harder to get results than rotary.
> Soneone pleasd help.


Not harder, just takes way longer. Try some mf pads and megs smat polish before you spend up big on a rotary.


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## Black.MB (Aug 22, 2012)

Black.MB said:


> ...Just a question for those who use LHR21 with smaller backing plate: are you in most cases able to correct the whole car with this combo or do you need to switch to another machine for smaller panels? Thanks in advance:thumb: (I'm looking to get LH18ENS rotary beside my DAS6 but maybe I can change my mind).


Bumpy:thumb:


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Black.MB said:


> Bumpy:thumb:


Depends which car tbh, but in most cases on what I class standard cars you can complete 90%, areas where the number plate sits and A pillars generally require switching to the rotary and a 80mm pad.


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## Black.MB (Aug 22, 2012)

Thanks for reply:thumb: This now makes my decision even harder, lol


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## Kelly @ KDS (Aug 4, 2008)

My take on this subject and off topic subject (filling) ,

I have a video in process showing the filling effect of compounds , pre wax cleaners , and LSP's .

In fact the video WILL show a near on 50/50 full correction when not a single bit of correction has taken place, (this i also show on my training courses) , then we filmed it being wiped down with IPA , detailing wipe down products , tradis , painter panel wipe ,and finally standard thinners.

The ONLY product to fully remove the fillers from each product was Thinners , the painters panel wipe (degreaser and silcone remover) was actually JUST slightly better than IPA which was almost not worth using.

Once the panel had been thinners down it was back to being completely matt , i did post a photo on my facebook but no one guessed what it was .

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...911907.-2207520000.1371903213.&type=3&theater

I have finally found a safe panel wipe that does remove very close to same amount of fillers as thinners.

So onto the DA / rotary thing ,

I think what may be slightly confusing and Jay is getting at is (my take and my thoughts)

when us used a DA with large throw it can cut much better than standard small throw DA , (larger the circle the higher the cut) and can cut nearer to a rotary with like for like pads and compounds BUT it wont cut as fast unless you use a more aggressive pad and compound compared to rotary.

so they are not equal , one thing thou the fillers work and do a much better job of "filling" in very uniform light small circles than filling in very large buffer lines from rotary usage which show as buffer lines , the buffer lines are very hard to "hide" with fillers and when the filling effect from compounds , pre wax cleanser , lsp's are washed of or burnt off with UV light the buffer lines return (i seen dozens of new to me customers cars covered with buffer lines from other detailers , but the car look perfect when completed) , the BIG advantage with DA's is even when the fillers are all gone the paint just loses some of its depth wetness etc due to thousands of tiny buffer lines all overlapping and very uniform so tricking the eye , and this is easy for the customer or detailer to disguise again with a quick pre wax cleanse and LSP's .

Time is what takes "real" correction no fancy machines and products

yes i own 2 bigfoots , over 15 rotary's , 2 forced DA's , 3 da's with different throws ,different size DA's , wool pads , microfibre pads , foam pads ,demin pads, water based compounds , oils based compounds the list goes on and on , i could never suggest that one is better than the other as a rule .

kelly


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

So if I have polished many cars with cyclo copy does it take long time to learn to use rotary properly? If it takes to make minor correction with da 8 hours how much i could save time to do that job with rotary if i maintain my same hologram free standards?


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## Black.MB (Aug 22, 2012)

sm81 said:


> I need ONE machine. I may have opportunity to part time job with car dealer. Would polish car dealer cars. Which one you recommend to buy if I have only time to do 2 cars/day and have time to do only 1-step. (I don't want holograms that's for sure)





sm81 said:


> So if I have polished many cars with cyclo copy does it take long time to learn to use rotary properly? If it takes to make minor correction with da 8 hours how much i could save time to do that job with rotary if i maintain my same hologram free standards?


Sounds like you wouldn't mainly go for a full correction but one step pre-sale detail. So if you're planning to make 2 details in a day, then I'd think about getting a Bigfoot. The reasons why should be:
- it corrects faster than traditional DA,
- it's more likely to leave hologram free finish, specially if you're in hurry and/or not experienced with rotary
- with dual action machine you avoid non-smooth action on sticky paints (often japanese cars)
- it works smoother than rotary and transfers less vibration than traditional DA, so you will be less tired at the end of the day.


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

One question i have.

Will a Rupes DA with MF Pad correct 4 times faster than a CYC DAS6Pro with the same pad as it is 4 times more expensive.

Not trying to cause a bun fight but i try not to get suckered into the "latest thing" hype and if i was to buy something at 4 times the price i'd expect it to perform 4 times better.


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## charlie20vt (May 8, 2011)

vRS Carl said:


> One question i have.
> 
> Will a Rupes DA with MF Pad correct 4 times faster than a CYC DAS6Pro with the same pad as it is 4 times more expensive.
> 
> Not trying to cause a bun fight but i try not to get suckered into the "latest thing" hype and if i was to buy something at 4 times the price i'd expect it to perform 4 times better.


Thats what i would like to know


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

vRS Carl said:


> One question i have.
> 
> Will a Rupes DA with MF Pad correct 4 times faster than a CYC DAS6Pro with the same pad as it is 4 times more expensive.
> 
> Not trying to cause a bun fight but i try not to get suckered into the "latest thing" hype and if i was to buy something at 4 times the price i'd expect it to perform 4 times better.


Why don't you find someone that is willing to let you try a Rupes and compare for yourself.
I hate the view that if something's more expensive, it should be x times better.


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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

Both machines will do the same job but the das6 pro is not as refined as the rupes.


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

Gleammachine said:


> Why don't you find someone that is willing to let you try a Rupes and compare for yourself.
> I hate the view that if something's more expensive, it should be x times better.


The point i am trying to make is that i want to know what i get for 4 times the cost.

I am quite sure if you actually look at why you personnally buy things, you wouldn't pay 4 x the amount for something that will do the same as something you already own that cost 4 x less. Unless it is purely to say you own one.

To put another way, my current car was £29k when i bought it. I wanted a car that was £43k at the time. My wife told me i could have the £43k car as long as i could justify the extra £14k. When i looked at what i wanted from a car it actually worked out that the £43k car was less capable for my needs.

I am not doubting the Rupes is very good. But is it really "that" good that it justifies the price.

Not tring to cause an argument with you. You're entitled to your opinion but just as you hate my view, i hate statements such as yours especially when, if you're honest (or your first name is Sheikh), i would wager you have done the same thing when considering purchasing something in your life.


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## 7MAT (Apr 14, 2006)

vRS Carl said:


> The point i am trying to make is that i want to know what i get for 4 times the cost.
> 
> I am quite sure if you actually look at why you personnally buy things, you wouldn't pay 4 x the amount for something that will do the same as something you already own that cost 4 x less. Unless it is purely to say you own one.
> 
> ...


In terms of comfort during use the Bigfoot is more than 4x nicer to use than any DAS6 machine IMHO.

The DAS6 is a more than capable machine but does vibrate a bit whereas the Bigfoot is silky smooth in comparison, I guess you need to weigh up how much you plan to use the machine.


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## dooka (Aug 1, 2006)

There is no way the rupes is worth the money, from what I have used of it, it feels cheap, doesn't leave a great finish and just as slow as a rotary, although if I can get a loaner for a while, I may change my mind, but not prepared to pay that sort of money on something I feel is sub standard. 

The bigfoot was originally designed for the professional refinishing market, didn't cut the mustard, so got unloaded onto the detailing market..


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

vRS Carl said:


> Not tring to cause an argument with you. You're entitled to your opinion but just as you hate my view, i hate statements such as yours especially when, if you're honest (or your first name is Sheikh), i would wager you have done the same thing when considering purchasing something in your life.


Nobody's arguing?

I have always said that the Bigfoot DA is too expensive, despite this it out sells all other polishing machines, the ones that you see being sold in the classifieds are because the user never stuck with the machine and learned to use it correctly. 
I did consider my purchase but only on a technical basis, whether the DA would add anything to my work level/finish, when I have been quite happy with my rotary for a number of years. However I never thought, is it going to be 4x better than my Kestrel or 2x better than my rotary?

The S-Class Mercedes is 3x more expensive than the A-Class, both serve the same purpose in regards to a-b, although the manner in which they make the journey may be different.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

vRS Carl said:


> One question i have.
> 
> Will a Rupes DA with MF Pad correct 4 times faster than a CYC DAS6Pro with the same pad as it is 4 times more expensive.
> 
> Not trying to cause a bun fight but i try not to get suckered into the "latest thing" hype and if i was to buy something at 4 times the price i'd expect it to perform 4 times better.


In my case, yes. I got the Rupes 21 because using the same combo with my DA took way too long. The results from MF on DA were perfect though, so I bit the bullet and got the Rupes for speed. It doesn't disappoint on that!

Do I think it's overpriced? Yep. Do I think it's a fantastic machine? Yep. Just like my Flex rotary, The Rupes is the class leader as far as DA's go.


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