# Snow Foam pointless?



## octobersown (Jun 7, 2012)

Ive recently got my snow foam lance and I've used it a couple of times and I'm not overly impressed with it. I was expecting a lot more from it, and compared to the hassle of setting it up and the mess it makes I'm thinking is it worth using. Once the foam has dwelled and is rinsed off the car just looks the same. Does anyone else think this or do they think snow foam is a must?


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

You'll get mixed opinion on this, but this was my take on things - www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=241248


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## LukeWS (Sep 9, 2012)

I find it doesnt remove a great deal but it definatly "loosens" all the dirt and a gentle glide over with the mitt is all it needs after  

Citrus pre wash has a good cleaning power :thumb:


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

I was very unimpressed with foams but after talking with bilt hamber about percentage hitting panel i did away with the mix 1 inch etc that a lot state and having worked out my flow rate with the lance on my washer with my mains pressure.

My lance will throw out with the snow foam neat in the bottle about 1 part foam to 25 parts water so hitting the panel at 4%.

This is the only way i get any decent cleaning and having tested on unprotected and protected cars you really do need a well protected motor in order to get the best cleaning from a Snow Foam.


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## octobersown (Jun 7, 2012)

Nice thread Shiney, shows a good comparison. I suppose snowfoam does a good job loosening dirt, but its also the mess it makes that makes me think is it worth it? Good poin from James_Death tho im not going to use the recommended dilution, i think i will try your 1:25 ratio next time.


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## DetailedClean (Jan 31, 2012)

Excellent nice thread there shiny


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## MRH72 (Mar 22, 2012)

As much as I've tried to like snow foam I'm not sold on it..Ive tried out several different types now and to be honest none of them have blew me away. I now just use a pump sprayer and citrus pre wash, does the same job for a lot less effort imo


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

octobersown said:


> Ive recently got my snow foam lance and I've used it a couple of times and I'm not overly impressed with it. I was expecting a lot more from it, and compared to the hassle of setting it up and the mess it makes I'm thinking is it worth using. Once the foam has dwelled and is rinsed off the car just looks the same. Does anyone else think this or do they think snow foam is a must?





MRH72 said:


> As much as I've tried to like snow foam I'm not sold on it..Ive tried out several different types now and to be honest none of them have blew me away. I now just use a pump sprayer and citrus pre wash, does the same job for a lot less effort imo


Nothing to do with your weak power washer gents?


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## Will_G (Jan 23, 2012)

Yes if you think so

No if you dont think so

:lol:


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## moono16v (Oct 12, 2010)

I have snow foam an have used several, I actually don't think it does much in way of cleaning. However as stated previously I know it certainly loosens the dirt! In this sort of weather i think 'snowing' the car is vital so as to not rub all the salt into your freshly detailed paintwork! 

I used mine today at a 50/50 rate (chemicals no touch) and once it was jetted off the car was sparkling!!


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## WashMitt (May 27, 2010)

Yh iv got to be honest I thought it was a bit of a gimmick, however since iv started using AB Magifoam I'm really impressed, it does genuinely remove a good amount of dirt which obviously is safer for the paint perhaps only marginally but when you add in the marginal effects of using 2bm and then Grit guards and then a good thick pile washmitt, then a plush towel to dry it all adds up to a pretty safe wash IMO, but it really depends on how far you want take it, some people are satisfied with 2bm and a washmitt, therefor excepting a small amount of damage being inflicted during the wash, perhaps on a daily driver or a lease car ect, whereas the guy with a 20k garage queen will go to all lengths to keep it immaculate. 

I buy new cars and like to keep them looking new for as long as possible also considering the resale value, so I put a fair bit of effort in and use all the above mentioned methods but that is on my daily driver so some might say that's excessive.


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## JunglistJed (Oct 26, 2012)

Is it pointless? no, is it cost effective? no

Obviously prevents you rubbing salt and grit into your paintwork with your mitt but it int cheap


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## WashMitt (May 27, 2010)

JunglistJed said:


> Is it pointless? no, is it cost effective? no
> 
> Obviously prevents you rubbing salt and grit into your paintwork with your mitt but it int cheap


Then some would argue it's very cost effective

Rubbing salt and grit into paintwork = need for correction 
Need for correction = lots of wonga

You can buy large bottles of snow foam that keep the cost per wash down, way below the cost of a correction once every two years or so.


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## JunglistJed (Oct 26, 2012)

WashMitt said:


> Then some would argue it's very cost effective
> 
> Rubbing salt and grit into paintwork = need for correction
> Need for correction = lots of wonga
> ...


pressure washer, snow foam lance, snow foam

Majority of people on this forum will want to correct their paintwork anyway.. many factors cause 'damage'

I just enjoy the snow foam stage tbh, gives me time to get the wheels clean and go round with some APC, just isn't a necessity!


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## WashMitt (May 27, 2010)

JunglistJed said:


> pressure washer, snow foam lance, snow foam
> 
> Majority of people on this forum will want to correct their paintwork anyway.. many factors cause 'damage'
> 
> I just enjoy the snow foam stage tbh, gives me time to get the wheels clean and go round with some APC, just isn't a necessity!


As iv said in my previous post it's not a necessity for all but I can see why some would leave it out of their routine.

Yes the majority will want to self correct, but then your adding in the cost of a rotary or DA, Polishes, pads, backing plates, which can be significant.


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

A pressure washer is not practical for me, I prespray with ONR and yet to have a problem. If the car was caked in mud I would just use a petrol station jet wash and then prespray with ONR


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## MRH72 (Mar 22, 2012)

Avanti said:


> Nothing to do with your weak power washer gents?


Absolutely not..i have a high end washer, i just feel a pre soak with a citrus cleaner is just as effective and a snow foam..

Mind you i see all the professional details snow foam so maybe its just me


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

MRH72 said:


> Absolutely not..*i have a high end washer, i just feel a pre soak with a citrus cleaner is just as effective and a snow foam..*
> 
> Mind you i see all the professional details snow foam so maybe its just me


So you agree, the washer is instrumental, yes pre spray is as if not more effective, but a weak washer is not going to be as effective with either method as a high flow rate machine. :detailer:


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## Peadar_911 (Aug 15, 2012)

You're never going to get a ********** answer on this subject - for some it's a waste of time/money, for others, myself included, it's a necessity, especially at this time of year.

I found that the key to successful snow foaming was finding the right SF, combined with the correct dilution rate and the correct dwell time - it really is worth while playing with different mixes and dwell times. A good LSP also helps.

I'm now using CG No Touch and find it very good, but I know others such as BH Autofoam and Magifoam get good reviews.

In the last 3 or 4 weeks I haven't used a bucket wash on either of my vehicles, just PW, SF & PW again - it may not give a perfect finish but it really does remove all the salt and crap.


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## WashMitt (May 27, 2010)

Peadar_911 said:


> You're never going to get a ********** answer on this subject - for some it's a waste of time/money, for others, myself included, it's a necessity, especially at this time of year.
> 
> *I found that the key to successful snow foaming was finding the right SF, combined with the correct dilution rate and the correct dwell time - it really is worth while playing with different mixes and dwell times. A good LSP also helps.
> *
> ...


This is it basically, I use AB Magifoam at the top end of the dilution ratio and its great but iv got a well prepped and protected car underneath.


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## boyasaka (Jun 13, 2009)

Does just pressure washing the car prior to washing it with 2 bucket method not remove the necessary thick grime from the car that possibly could cause harm to paint work. ? If my car is very dirty i just pop over the road to garage,Stick a quid in jet wash machine.jet wash car and then go home and wash it. Me personal thick this snow foam milarky is just a gimmick


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

*


boyasaka said:



Does just pressure washing the car prior to washing it with 2 bucket method not remove the necessary thick grime from the car that possibly could cause harm to paint work.

Click to expand...

Will remove large particulate but not the muck...

This is just using a power washer...








*


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

*The pad on the right is wiped through a panel thats just had a power wash.

The pad on the left is wiped through a panel after snow foam only.








*


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## JunglistJed (Oct 26, 2012)

james_death said:


> *The pad on the right is wiped through a panel thats just had a power wash.
> 
> The pad on the left is wiped through a panel after snow foam only.
> 
> ...


that's very impressive, just goes to show how much it does do!


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## WashMitt (May 27, 2010)

I agree that's very convincing,


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## MRH72 (Mar 22, 2012)

boyasaka said:


> Does just pressure washing the car prior to washing it with 2 bucket method not remove the necessary thick grime from the car that possibly could cause harm to paint work. ? If my car is very dirty i just pop over the road to garage,Stick a quid in jet wash machine.jet wash car and then go home and wash it. Me personal thick this snow foam milarky is just a gimmick


As I've said i prefer citrus pre wash, i did a small test last week just to satisfy myself I'm not wasting my time, washed the wife's white car, one half i just jet washed off the other pre soak then jet wash off, the difference on the pre soaked half was amazing it was almost completely clean.


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

WashMitt said:


> I agree that's very convincing,


Thats with decent protection on which is paramount to get anywhere near a touch less wash in my testing so far....:thumb:


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## VenomUK (Oct 13, 2011)

If you think about it. Some people haven't got the use of a hot water pressure washer. If you fill your snow foam lance with foam and warm water. The foam holds to the car letting the warm water help to soften the dirt. 

Well at least that one way of looking at it.


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Mines cold water and neat foam in bottle.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

VenomUK said:


> If you think about it. Some people haven't got the use of a hot water pressure washer. If you fill your snow foam lance with foam and warm water. The foam holds to the car letting the warm water help to soften the dirt.
> 
> Well at least that one way of looking at it.


I use cold water, as the benefit if using warm / hot water is soon diminished as soon as the cold water meets the hot, laws of physics rule.


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## Tazz (Aug 23, 2010)

VenomUK said:


> If you think about it. Some people haven't got the use of a hot water pressure washer. If you fill your snow foam lance with foam and warm water. The foam holds to the car letting the warm water help to soften the dirt.
> 
> Well at least that one way of looking at it.


i fill me too with hot water, but i also use a strong mix of 100ml (1/10)

i find it does work in help loosening the grime, maybe its a 'placebo' effect, but either way, i like it and find it helps


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## RobertUtley (Mar 15, 2012)

I dont wash my car without snow foam ever now simple as that maybe with valet pro citrus pre wash i would but after a couple hits!


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## Subc (May 30, 2008)

Snowfoam similar to Snake Oil,tried most of them at all sorts of dilutions.
Totally sold now on Citrus Pre wash with a shot of Bilt Hamber Shampoo sprayed on with pump sprayer left to dwell, PW off spotless havent had my buckets and mitt out since a month, after even a 400 mile journey of road salt etc.:thumb:


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

It also depends on the colour, I found I could do a completely touch less wash and have a lovely clean car with silver but no chance with black...


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

I don't bother with snowfoam,i have done years ago but a decent prewash cleans better in my experience


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## Ronnie (Nov 15, 2006)

It really depends on what you want from your foam. If you want a miracle product that you spray on and it removes all the dirt whilst you look at it. hose it off and the car has gone from grime to sublime without a contact wash then one of three things will happen. you live in the desert and all your car sees is dust, you use a very chemical "heavy" detergent foam that will cut through dirt but may risk damage to the car or you're in for a disappointment.

Here is a picture of dirt encapsulated in foam below, this is what a good quality foam will do, there are literally hundreds of foams out there most are diluted to death with a bit of added trickery to make them foam again at 100:1, but really these are totally useless and not worth it you can usually tell a crappy foam as you will go through loads of it very quickly once its diluted in the lance bottle, pH neutral foams I cannot see how they can clean when they have nothing in them that is able to clean in the first place (marketing hype). Now foam not foaming, I have seen this only a few time, as we literally are selling thousands of litres of Cotton Candy foam and occasionally we have come across some power washers not able to pump out enough psi to properly foam the snow foam (usually very cheapie ones) and sometimes it's a complete mystery as to why someone can't get good foam and we are stumped.

The best foams at simply "spray on dwell hose off and clean car" do have high levels of cleaning agents in them the better the clean after dwell the more concentrated the chemical. Nothing whatsoever wrong with this. Others have a milder foam and mix a prewash stage for heavy soiling may be required again nothing wrong with this as long as its properly explained to the user the method of cleaning that will be best to unit how dirty the car is.

A nice skin of foam over a panel this will dwell longer as it is not dragged off by an inch deep foam white out would.









you can actually see the dirt in this one









Another myth that poorly made products will have you believe shampoo that does not sud is better, right here is where the fun begins. To help remove dirt grit and other particles you need to be able to remove it from the surface and a good layer of foam does this as. Personally I use snow foam as my soap solution when washing a car ie my bucket with shampoo and then a good foam over the car mitt at ready and jobs a goodun by doing this you will dramatically reduce the risk of inflicting scratch marks.

One pet hate is seeing people using a mitt on a wet panel thinking a suddless shampoo in a bucket will be an effective and safe method of cleaning a car you can have a 20 bucket method and it's still wrong sorry detailers rant over.

if you want to add a "lubricant" and effective method of doing a minimal risk of damage wash you need foam and suds as the bubbles and foam from a good quality foam and shampoo create a reduction in drag for the mitt and any dirt particles being pushed along. Some might try and baffle you that particles are instantly sucked up into the mitt and its safe, no they are dragged along and work up into the mitt, if you don't have a foamy solution then they just are sucked back onto the panel.

Foam is like marmite you will either love it or hate it, the problem is there are a lot of poor quality foams being pushed as high end detailing products that are quite frankly not up to it and this is like a lot of other products giving people a bad opinion.

Or on the other hand you will hate it and if that the thing a decent prewash is just as effective ( I personally use both) but the big kid in me thinks it cool being able to loose the door handles in 3" deep of foam what's not to like.


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Have often taken a mitt and shampoo mix to the snow foam also...:thumb:

Thanks for that Rollo...:thumb:


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## Ronnie (Nov 15, 2006)

No worries James, there is a lot of misinformation out there and I know we will be trying to give clear and accurate advice over the next year. The truth is foam is not essential but its fun and if you like it use it but if you don't or cant there are plenty of alternatives out there.


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## tangledmonkey (Apr 9, 2012)

I wasn't 100% sold on it with my old car, but I've just got my new car, and I must say I'm impressed with what magifoam does!

After the snow, and the drive back from buying the car (about 200 miles), the car was dirty! Heres some before and afters, showing the difference after just snowfoaming.

Before:




























After 10-15 minutes dwell time









After:


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## TopSport+ (Jul 22, 2012)

looks good


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## karl_liverpool (Sep 25, 2008)

Imo the only snowfoam that works on its own is magi foam. 
Most other foams I ended up adding some apc to get more clean/degrease action from them. In some cases standard shampoo had better ability as prewash the normal snow foams


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

With supersoft NHB Honda paint, you will be grateful for a touchless wash as possible.


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

Why do we keep seeing these threads popping up saying snow foam is useless?

It has been proven many times that a good quality product used at the right dilution along with a half decent pressure washer will remove 95% of the dirt on the car. It has also been proven in side by side tests that using the pressure washer alone will not remove the same amount of soiling.

For those who think snow foam is pointless there are a number of reasons.

1. The foam product you are using is poor.

2. You are mixing it far too weak. Remember when the already diluted product is sucked out of the bottle and into the injector valve on the lance it will dilute it many times again as it mixes with the flow of water from the pressure washer. 

3. Your pressure washer just isnt powerful enough to dislodge the dirt that the foam has loosened.


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## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

I too get bored of seeing these.

I agree with what others have said, the first one or two times I used it I was a little disappointed. Since then I've found a product I find works quite well for me and I'm left impressed with the results for the minimal effort/fun you get in the process.

I also live down an unmade road, I end up with a car caked in mud at times. Would I like to use a PW straight onto that or would I rather soften it before doing so?

I'll let you decide!


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

The Doctor said:


> Why do we keep seeing these threads popping up saying snow foam is useless?
> 
> It has been proven many times that a good quality product used at the right dilution along with a half decent pressure washer will remove 95% of the dirt on the car. It has also been proven in side by side tests that using the pressure washer alone will not remove the same amount of soiling.
> 
> ...


Well said Doc.

As for point 1 , folk are hell bent on wax safe! FFS the popular choice comes in a huge tin, lasts ages and beyond all that is advertised as DETERGENT PROOF.

As for point 2, folk are measuring liquid in inches  liquid is measured by volume, on top of that they fill the 1 litre bottle with water where as 1/4-1/3 of wash solution is all that is required to cover the majority of cars, certainly not the full bottle.

As for point 3, well the sheep don't want to break a budget, however they have gotten a K2 series as it comes with all the accessories but ignore the 'fact' they are designed to run perhaps 30hrs, that packs up, then the next in thing is the blue model, however by now they have spent twice their budget and still using a weak washer which too has a short life design.

Yep if you are finding foaming doesn't work and want to know why? Then perhaps look in the mirror 

In the meantime I'm of to Halfords to get some demon wash to try out :detailer:


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## karl_liverpool (Sep 25, 2008)

I now use 6 pumps of magi foam with two pumps of normal shampoo.
Topped with hot water. This is the mix I found most effective. As has been said dilution is important. My washer does roughly a 3:1 mix from bottle on foam lance so I fill my foam bottle to just about a third with product before topping with hot water.

And my washer is more powerfull than most of the usually ones you hear about on here at 160 bar. Has enough power with a nozzle swap to strip graffiti from brickwork. Even with this machine the standards snow foams don't work as they are made out to. Ab's standard foam is decent. 

I also don't get the wax safe issue. Most of us if the weather is good will do a full wash and waxing on the car so doesn't matter if wax was stripped.


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## Martyboy84 (Mar 9, 2012)

I did a 50/50 (as near as i could) on my frozen white fiesta to show my dad that it did work much better than just a power hose. It really was night and day. Basically I could have rinsed the foam off and it would have been still been cleaner. I often leave it for 15-20 mins and grab a cuppa and fill my two buckets up. Absolutely no complaints when you use a decent lance, power washer and good foam your onto a winner. A less power hose and poor foam makes quite a difference. A mate with a very nasty cheap power hose and a fairly unheard of foam (decent lance) just didn't produce the foam I am used to. It really struggled to lift anything off at all.


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