# Pro's/detailer's views on Megs MF System? Will you be sticking to your Rotary?



## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

If you read the American forums, it seems that a lot of the 'Highline Detailers' there are favouring this new system over the use of a rotary for medium to heavy correction, and then normally using a rotary to refine with.

However, it seems that over here, the system is less well regarded, and most people who have commented, seem to want to stick with their rotary for correction and refining.

So, a question to those of you who have tried it, and are experienced with a rotary - what do you think of the system, and will you be sticking with your rotary for now?

Thanks,
Russ.


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

ive yet to try the MF system, but i certainly want to 

BUT, id have to buy a DA aswell as all the stuff i need. the only problem i see, is the fact i got rid of the PC after a few uses, as it made my hands go weird :lol: and for that reason, i couldnt ever see my self using a DA for prolonged periods, and would rather use a rotary for a few extra hours i think :lol:


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

Russ ive used bothand have had a good play with the mf system from around april i think and having hung up my rotary so to speak in a professional capacity i now only use the mf system as it meets my needs on my own and a few other cars as and when, albeit i do use d300, 105 and 205 with it as appose to the two polishes marketed with the kit alone.

Great kit although i still feel the rotary can offer slightly more but the mf system is more than enough for the majority of work imo.


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

RussZS said:


> *If you read the American forums, it seems that a lot of the 'Highline Detailers' there are favouring this new system over the use of a rotary for medium to heavy correction*, and then normally using a rotary to refine with.
> 
> However, it seems that over here, the system is less well regarded, and most people who have commented, seem to want to stick with their rotary for correction and refining.
> 
> ...


Thats because they don't get as much call for VAG paints.

No seriously I'm perfectly happy with the rotary, theres not many finishes I can't correct in 2 stages, I find the rotary a lot more comfortable to use than the DA over long periods of time, thats not to say I discount using the DA when it calls for it, but will stick with the rotary during refinement as I feel it's superior.

However I am curious about the MF system and not adverse to adapt to change, so will be putting it through it's paces and will probably do a side by side review showing the pro's and con's at some point.


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## Exclusive Car Care (Jan 14, 2007)

the Megs MF system is good but I try to stay away from using a DA as it gives me really bad pin and needles in my hands for days after using it. Only time I can see myself using the Megs MF system is on sticky paint. 

I know its said its to supposed to speed up correction work but I didn't find much time was saved over using a rotary.


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## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

As I've said before, I won't be hanging up my rotary at all!! 

I will continue to do my machining work with a rotary. if you were a detailer and couldn't fully corrected without making a massive mess before refining, your not very good a detailer.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

The system is not a complete replacement for the rotary and should not be regarded as such in my opinion... however, what it does do is offer tenable benefits that the rotary cannot offer, the primary one being the leveling effect that it offers with the MF pads that foam on a rotary does not achieve.

For me, I would see it as having its place and its job to do... heavy correction, I would still favour the rotary, foam and a compound. But the enhancement to the clarity that the MF system then offers on top of this is very hard to overlook in my opinion and this would serve as a very valuable middle step before then refining with a finishing polish and a rotary. The middle stage is not necessary but does offer a benefit in terms of looks in my opinion and for this reason I highly recommend the MF system. But not as a rotary replacement, more as a system to complement the rotary.

As intimated above - DA on all cars is asking for trouble in terms of health: damage to you hands from the constant vibrations, and it is hard to think of a way to fully mitigate this. That is what counts against the system. But what it offers in terms of looks makes it a valuable compliment to the rotary and not one which should be over looked. In my humble opinion


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## burger (Feb 10, 2009)

I've just bought the whole kit and can't wait to try it, I am going to get some 105 and 205 for complete range. 
I had a rotary but didn't use it very often so wanted something a little more user friendly. 
I still have foam pads for the da if I feel the need to use them. 
One thing I haven't bought yet is the spot pads but may do soon


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## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

Gleamingkleen said:


> the Megs MF system is good but I try to stay away from using a DA as it gives me really bad pin and needles in my hands for days after using it. Only time I can see myself using the Megs MF system is on sticky paint.
> 
> I know its said its to supposed to speed up correction work but I didn't find much time was saved over using a rotary.


+1

I could never shake the pins and needles - bloody horrible feeling


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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

I have already ruffled a few feathers regarding rotary vs da 
As much as i like my rotary the da is seeing a lot more action than i thought it would


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Not tried the new system and not particularly in a rush, i much prefer the lack of gyrations with the Rotary.

A darn good deal of American cars have had bodyshop sprays.

Americans Love there DA's and use them for everything often waxing so can see the new system really doing exceptional over there...


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## Ronnie (Nov 15, 2006)

I have used the Megs MF system an I have to say it is an amazing tool for giving a very good level of finish in a relatively short space of time I have corrected about 10 cars with ceramic clear and I have to say it munches its way through it very nicely with out the need for heavy compounding and refining. Now granted i will always refine with a rotary. But where is its place lies is the ability to offer a very high level of finish in a short time frame there for boosting the results achieved when carrying out simple enhancements. as we can correct more without having to refine working marks from using heavier compounds or deal with fussy paint. Agreed the biggest let down is the machine. I have talked to Dom form Megs and others and cannot for the love of me see why they did not fit a gel handle. Big mistake as it will be the letdown of the system in my eyes. 

I agree totally Jay in the fact if you cant do it professionally with a rotary then you are not a pro but the DA does have its place in the OCD stdio now and I can see a marked improvement in the level of finish when using this system if you are pushed for time or the owner has only budgeted for an enhancement and you want to give the best possible finish in the time allotted, this is a very good system to have. 

Dave I also agree on chatting with Gordon, I noticed a marked improvement in the clarity after correction of several BMW's when using this system and agree when it comes to these types of cars it will be a step that we are now using to improve clarity without having to resort to sanding. (its a good middle road so to say)

All I will say is we managed to give a near perfect finish to a brand new RS5 that had been through a few local car washes in the 6 weeks of ownership without resorting to bringing the big guns out as Megs 105 was not even looking at it without making for a very long session with the rotary. The megs system easily tackled the bulk and the rotary polished off the hard bits in no time and the job was completed in about 16 hours where we had budgeted over 20 with the rotary. 

It is not intended to replace the rotary but i have to admit it is a VERY effective tool when correcting hard paint types. I will be honest and say 90% of my cars are BMW/Merc/Audi/Porsche and I am only getting to use it on a softer paint type at the end of this week so i will keep you all posted! 

I would say to dismiss it as a valid tool in your arsenal would be a shame as it is very good.


for the hobbist. I would totally recommend this over a rotary you can correct to nearly as good a finish without the hastle of the rotary. Where it does fall down is contoured complex shapes as the pad is so thin it is unable to mould round a courner or a seam therefore I will always have a rotary beside me Bumpers are another stumbling block with the vibration and if allowed to vibreat the pad will distort to an eliptical shape and the pad is then scrap!


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

I use both everyday. Both have a place in my paint correction tool box.

Working today and tomorrow on a lovely 1998 C Class Merc.

Scholl and rotary all the way for the bonnet, wings, doors etc. Used the DA system for the roof as it seemed very bendy and all the smaller parts that needed a spot pad, plus the bumpers.

I will final finish with the rotary though, then drop onto the DA for the final final finish.

Have got into a routine now with both and will keep using this for now.

But........Rotary, Scholl Concepts Wool Pad and S3 Gold; 90 seconds to almost fully correct half a Merc front wing. Another minute with this combo and all marks fully gone, 3 minutes with A17 (before it dried too much) and then a good 10 minutes refining with S40 I had the whole wing LSP ready in 30 minutes. You would never have got those results with 3M or Menz.

Plus I have been using CQuartz Eraser today rather than IPA; this is a far superior product and another one in my detailing tool box.


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## paddy328 (Mar 4, 2007)

I have just ordered the pad and compound from i4detailing, just to see what the fuss is about to be fair. I dont think anything will beat my trusty makita, but it sounds like its worth a go.

Im going to be trying it out on a gallardo spider in met black and from what i have heard, this would be a good car to try it on, as there are no real curves to speak of and not having soft paint. However, i will be using the rotary too. I would post my pics/findings, but thats been done by others already.

Francis


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

Ultimately you can't get around the laws of physics. Whatever 'new fangled' ways can be had with a da the far more more powerful rotary will perform better, its not rocket science...


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

I found it to be very useful on plastic bumpers, seem to keep the heat right down, yet cuts very effectively.

It's interesting to see how different people are viewing it...


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Brazo said:


> Ultimately you can't get around the laws of physics. Whatever 'new fangled' ways can be had with a da the far more more powerful rotary will perform better, its not rocket science...


Simples!


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Brazo said:


> Ultimately you can't get around the laws of physics. Whatever 'new fangled' ways can be had with a da the far more more powerful rotary will perform better, its not rocket science...


True, but you can't compare 'like for like' as you have MF pads and foam/wool pads?

Is there any sign of MF pads being made for Rotary use? Surely they would cut VERY quickly...?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

I'd like to try it but it would mean buying a DA and swmbo wouldn't have any of it! It looks good from the threads I've read but the let down is the vibrations.


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## dwmc (Jun 6, 2010)

bigmc said:


> I'd like to try it but it would mean buying a DA and swmbo wouldn't have any of it! It looks good from the threads I've read but the let down is the vibrations.


i`ve said the same before , if only the DA didn`t vibrate it would be a massive improvement , don`t get me wrong the DA is a good machine but the vibration is it`s only downside ,

now theres a challenge for the manufacturers :buffer: :thumb:


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Hmmmm, I may try the MF pads on the rotary on my new M3 project car. It is being resprayed anyway.

I did try scholl wool pad and S3 Gold on the rear wing and removed all the swirls in 60 seconds with only medium pressure.

I have enough straight panels on the near side to go at.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Brazo said:


> Ultimately you can't get around the laws of physics. Whatever 'new fangled' ways can be had with a da the far more more powerful rotary will perform better, its not rocket science...





Clark @ PB said:


> Simples!


Is it that simple though guys? I don't believe that it is, and the results in practice are showing this.

In terms of ultimate paint removal, yes, the rotary is (for me) removing more and thus is tackling the deeper marks more effectively.

But - and it is a very big, and not inconsiderable but - the way these system work is different, foam and microfibre are not incident on the paint surface in the same way so a like for like comparison considering power is not wholly relevant. The MF system seems to "skim" more than the foam "moulds" and this is what I believe is giving the more levelling effect that the DA + MF can offer and this increase in clarity is something that in my eyes should not be overlooked just because the DA is "less powerful".

It would be nice if it was indeed simples, but in my eyes, this is certainly not the case. And of course, this is with the caveat of how one measures the performance of the system... there is, after all, more to the polishing process than simply removing the marks so paint depth removal rate is only one factor.


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## 911fanatic (Sep 10, 2007)

I have just started using the MF system and have to say that it will become a regular sight in my shop. As stated before, when it comes to removing deeper RDS, the rotary will always get the call first. Where I live however, we do a lot of single stage corrections. By that I mean one correction step followed by wax/sealant. Using the MF cutting disc with D300 allows me to get better correction and a nicer finish than can be accomplished with a rotary in a single step. To get the same correction with a rotary would require two steps for most paints.


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

I have to agree with Gleam Machines and Dave KG as well

Yes I'll adopt the MF discs and use them with my vibration free Makita BO6030 at speed 5 as well as the Surbuf pads which I love but mainly for low to mid range work

When it comes to high end, the Makita Rotary still has a role within my workshop.

1. Orange peel reduction (up to 90 odd percent) with Denim and Velvet buff pads and Xpert ultra single polish system
2. Jewelling with 80, 90 and 100 ppi foams and Xpert High Tech Final Polish
3. Removing deep straight line or curved scratches with wool or velvet pads

The biggest problem for us Aussie's is the lack of good DA's except for the Flex 3401 which I still dont think is quite right.

we dont have the griots high torque machine, no PC's, no Megs machine anymore, some machines the torque is high but OPM's too low and vice versa
need one with 1,500 to 12,000 opm which my 6030 has but of course that dont have as much torque as I'd like

Plus the vibration of a DA on rotary mode. The Rotex makes my hands shake like a parkinsons sufferer


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## John @ PB (Aug 25, 2010)

It's got it's place. 

Personally, I'd say it's an additional system: rotary, traditional DA work and the MF DA system. It just offers more choice and more options. Certainly for the amateur who's got a DA and has a bit of confidence in it but doesn't want to swap machines, it gives a new avenue to explore. 

Ideally, you'd have access to all three systems and use them based on the job in hand.


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## RaskyR1 (Jan 6, 2009)

I find it a little odd that a lot of the posts apposing the system are from members who haven't even tried it. I've been whirling rotary's since the early '90's but I can honestly say all 3 of them now sit on the bench 90-95% of the time. Is it a rotary replacement, no. But for the majority of the cars I do it's my go to system, well at least the D300 and cutting pads are as I finish with foam and a dedicated finishing polish, as most my clients are looking for a more durable LSP than D301. 

As one of the pre-release testers to the MF system I can assure you that if you allow time to learn how the system works, you will find yourself setting down the rotary for a large portion of the jobs. It's not just the MF system either as Surbuf and M105 offers even more cutting ability than the MF discs, but on softer paints it will leave more marring.

The only time I really use the rotary now is for wet sanding jobs, deep RIDS on rock hard paints, and occasionally for finishing.


As far as the vibration on DA's....well, I've never really been bothered by it in the 6 years I've been using them. Since the MF cutting disks only require 4800opm, speed 3.5-4 on the Griots GG6, it really doesn't vibrate that much at all IMO. If you have sensitive hands then this system, or a DA probably isn't for you.

At the end of the day how you go from A to B really shouldn't matter. A large majority of the US users started on and had mastered the rotary long before picking up a DA, myself included. However, we've chosen to be open minded and accept that advancements in pad and polish technology is closing the gap between the rotary and the DA. The move to the DA is pretty obvious to me....The DA simply does the same job in less steps, it's safer, and there is zero risk of holograms appearing later down the road.


FYI. Optimum just release some MF pads too, word is that they can be used on both DA and rotary.


Just my $.02

Rasky


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## toni (Oct 30, 2005)

Well said Rasky! Can't wait to give my MF pads a go along with some M105 :thumb:


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## MarkSmith (Dec 17, 2010)

Just got my MF System today from Elite car Care and cant wait to try it !


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

I would love to test it but the only things that worries me - and a couple others in this thread - is the vibrations from a DA(very high) compared to the vibrations from a rotary(second to none).

I will ********** try it in the near future.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Brazo said:


> Ultimately you can't get around the laws of physics. Whatever 'new fangled' ways can be had with a da the far more more powerful rotary will perform better, its not rocket science...


This is very true but after quite a few hours maybe even 10 solid on flat Surfaces the rotary could not give as good a finish like for like, power , speed , timing all wins with a rotary but for absolute utter perfection at the first stage laying down the foundation there Is 100% better clarity with the microfibre system even if I had to
Swallow a bitter pill after posting it's BS. My biggest issue and why for now atleast I won't be using it all the time is curves where I don't feel a backing plate with enough give on the DA (and enough give would fail to
Correct) can give the best finish where the curvature of a foam pad combined with foamed backing plate give a good result...
I personally used the flat of my hand on the head when doing flat surfaces so vibration Is minimal but anything other than that it's a killer.


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

RussZS said:


> True, but you can't compare 'like for like' as you have MF pads and foam/wool pads?
> 
> Is there any sign of MF pads being made for Rotary use? Surely they would cut VERY quickly...?


This would be my preferred choice.

Its perhaps not a fair comparison. Its a new system for a DA, what happens if you strap it onto a rotary?

Is Diesel faster than Petrol? NO! What happens if you strap a turbo charger onto the diesel engine?

Is it still a like for like comparison?


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

I have used the Chemical Guys MF and thought i would stick to the Rotary, today i used the Meguiars MF system and love it. I think each have their own place redpendin on the circumstances and level of expectation.

You also need to consider (if working everyday) the possibility of white finger by using a rotary everyday, i knw some of the newer machines have less vibration, but im still waiting to try one of them.

I have only had the oppertunity to try the MF system on my own Saab, which one side was resprayed and the paint was soo soft, the rotary was putting microswirling in it, the MF today erradicated that problem and it looking good again


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## Reflectology (Jul 29, 2009)

why would you get white finger from rotary....

I was in Wakefield the other day on an attempted MF system detail....wouldnt have said it was a stone wall downer but did leave marring and the odd hologram, all eradicated by rotary....maybe it was the guys method but once I got chatting about it he seemed to have had all angles covered but just couldnt get it to suit, especially the sides as the roof and bonnet he did were fine....

I was going to give it a go but just a little on the steep side just to give it a go and probably not use to the extent it was brought out for....


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

Reflectology said:


> why would you get white finger from rotary....


Sorry meant from a DA :buffer:


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## toni (Oct 30, 2005)

Porta said:


> I would love to test it but the only things that worries me - and a couple others in this thread - is the vibrations from a DA(very high) compared to the vibrations from a rotary(second to none).
> 
> I will ********** try it in the near future.


With the MF system you don't need high speed or pressure to achieve correction so the vibrations are not as intense. I've used the Surbuf pads which are similar tech to MF pads and at speed 4 and light pressure, the vibrations and effort are much diminished compared to regular polishing with a DA.

What I really want to test is how these MF pads work with a diminishing polish (like Menz or Scholl)


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## cleslie (Feb 19, 2006)

I used P1 with wool with amazing (and quick!) results this year. I'm very tempted to give the Megs MF a try in the spring when I'll next be polishing our cars. Glad I didn't sell my old trusty Porta Cable now.


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

There will always be a place for all four machine types. The rotarys saving grace is orange peel removal, jewelling and ability by heat and friction with the right technique to give incredible depth, clarity and rich finish with a more level paint finish (ie tiny amount or no peel remaining)

The DA's and RO's are so brilliant too though. here's a video showing difference between the body shop detailer using rotary and foam pad with wizards mystic compound and me with makita bo6030 and surbuf with Xpert 1000 ultra polish (single polish system)





hopefully the linear drum polisher will be improved upon to accept all pad materials


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## MarkSmith (Dec 17, 2010)

OMG !!!!

Ok, I have never machine polished before and so can not compare the Megs MF System to anything, but I used it today with the Compound and Finishing Wax and I achieved, in my opinion, a real top quality professional looking job.

All the swirls in the car have now gone and the shine is out of this world.

Maybe its beginners luck, maybe not, but I am so pleased with the results I got from this system that I wont even ever bother going "up" to try a Rotary.


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## Bence (Dec 21, 2006)

Dream Machines said:


> I have to agree with Gleam Machines and Dave KG as well
> 
> Yes I'll adopt the MF discs and use them with my vibration free Makita BO6030 at speed 5 as well as the Surbuf pads which I love but mainly for low to mid range work
> 
> ...


Matt, have you tried the BO6040?


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

Right had my first proper outing with the MF cutting discs today on a med-hard paint type (E39 BMW).

I was pleasantly surprised at the cut level from 1 set using #105, the car had light-medium swirling and the system dealt with them reasonably well.
I persevered around 2/3rds of the vehicle, obtaining the desired results prior to refinement, although I felt it wasn't exactly a pleasant experience using the DA, to be honest it was quite uncomfortable and noisy at times.
The other issue that stood out to me was the lack of flexibilty on curved areas, just didn't appear to be any worthwhile give in the pad.

My impression was that the finish achieved using the MF system would leave less to do in the next stage of refinement, be less dusty, some have even mentioned it cut their work time down, in my opinion it wasn't any quicker and wouldn't have been much different had I used sheepskin and a rotary, but then I have always been able to finish down pretty well this way and can correct most paint types in 2 stages.
At one point I switched to the rotary to correct some deeper scratches, a huge sigh of relief, like running silk over a smooth surface, Bliss!!!

My summary, I am in no way putting the system down, it is a huge leap forward in regards to DA use, the MF system is perfect for someone that doesn't own a rotary, has a bit of confidence, and wishes to gain a decent level of correction to his/her own car over a period of time.

Sticking my neck out here, I'm not adverse to using the DA for correction when it's absolutely necessary (sticky paint, delicate bumpers etc..) but I see no benefit over the rotary and I certainly couldn't imagine using it everyday, or at least until the DA has progressed into a smoother machine (even then I struggle to see where it fits in to my usage).


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

I'm tending to agree with you more now Rob, having used it a bit more. I'd rather use a rotary too, but it does have its place, like you say, on bumpers and certain paint types.

It does offer a good option for a nice one day enhancement on harder paints too.

Have you tried D300?


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## Gleammachine (Sep 8, 2007)

RussZS said:


> I'm tending to agree with you more now Rob, having used it a bit more. I'd rather use a rotary too, but it does have its place, like you say, on bumpers and certain paint types.
> 
> *It does offer a good option for a nice one day enhancement on harder paints too.
> 
> Have you tried D300?*


This was my thinking today in trying the MF system, I have the car for 2 days, use my time productively and limit any additional work, not sure it achieved this really.

Not tried D300, if I am honest I only grabbed the MF discs to satisfy my curiosity.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

I have done one car with the MF system and I am not sure how I have done it but the discs have gone an oval shape and toward the end the backing plate broke, so I had to finish off with foam and "normal" polish.

I have had some tuition from DaveKG and I was getting on pretty good on the flat surfaces. For me doing the doors and side panels was back breaking whilst trying to maintain the pressure.

The vibration on the Das6 pro didn't cause any concern to me but the machine is a little noisey.

One final point the pads did clog up and not having an airline they are difficult to clean with a brush and I found the fibres do come out pretty easily.


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## Ronnie (Nov 15, 2006)

I find you have to really look after the pads. blow them out with an airline, wee quick go with a brush and if they look like clogging use less product takes a while to get the hang of them, to be honest I think they are great for the smaller enhancement 1-2 day jobs we are doing. took about 4-5 cars to really get eh hang f it and now I love them. still finish with the rotary but I think I prefer the better finish achieved. all in all it has made life a bit easier for us.


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

It worked wonders on the Candy White GTI I did with Lee last weekend, Scholl wouldn't finish down nearly as well

I've bought the Finishing stuff now too, for softer paints, see how I get on


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