# Insurance help please.



## Hazbobsnr

Hi Guys.

I have been told, that as I have not been valeting/Detailing for over a year yet, that I will not be able to get cover for working on customers cars, I can only have public liability insurance & third party cover.
This would cover me if I damaged the car while NOT working on it, say, knocked it with something whilst in my possession.

Any help on this matter would be fab.

Is it really worth getting third party cover, when the excess is £250.

What have you guys got.

Regards.

Dave S.


----------



## Rayner

It's 100% worth getting 3rd party cover for any business.... Little scenario - your washing the car, man comes out with a cuppa, trips on the your hose, falls into his pride and joy £50,000 BNW putting a dent in it, breaks his arm and is off work for 3 weeks. 

£250 for that would be the bargain of the century!


----------



## stangalang

Surely that's a paradox? Or oxymoron or whatever's called lol. You need insurance to work on vehicles, but can't get insurance until you have worked on vehicles? That's like needing a driving licence to drive, but not letting you have one until you've been driving 12 months lol.


----------



## Rayner

stangalang said:


> Surely that's a paradox? Or oxymoron or whatever's called lol. You need insurance to work on vehicles, but can't get insurance until you have worked on vehicles? That's like needing a driving licence to drive, but not letting you have one until you've been driving 12 months lol.


:lol: just insurance companies trying to cover themselves. He can get 3rd party but not 'damages to items worked on'

tis stupid though, like me not being able to insure my apprentice until he's been on for a year :wall:


----------



## Jon Allum

Hi Dave,

I have been running a small detailing company for 2 years and paid out a total of £34 in damage to people's cars.

The first incident was during an equipment test on a family member's car where some already peeling paint was blown off of a heater control cover. I made an existing problem worse, felt bad and replaced the cover for £24.

The second was peeling tape off bobbled paint after machine polishing an adjacent panel. This lifted 6 spots off of the paint. I now know how to deal with such situations and it was a learning curve. I showed the customer the damage, apologised and offered him 3 options.

1) To take some money off his bill
2) Pay for the panel to be resprayed 
3) Buy some touch up paint for his vehicle and touch it in.

He chose option 3 and it cost me £10, a trip to Halfords and 20 minutes carefully touching them in. Even the worst case would have been about £150 out of pocket.

So, if I had insurance I wouldn't have claimed with the excess of £500 (for the Gold policy where this damage to items worked upon clause applies - http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=231099) being higher than the cost of putting it right. Even in the case of respraying a panel and potentially paying for a hire car I would still not have claimed. So in 2 years I have spent £34 and saved £400 on insurance. I would not have claimed either time. I feel the policy excess precludes claims and renders the policy useless. Also, how hard would the insurer work to get out of paying up anyway?

Now, say I wasn't a good guy and didn't offer to sort out these problems. What would the customer have to do in order to take my limited liability company (not me I am a separate legal identity) to the small claims court and win damages? Well, they would have to prove that I didn't demonstrate reasonable care and skill in carrying out the work. The use of the air blower was used to remove dust and not scratch the trim. It was used on the same finish elsewhere in the car and the paint didn't come off. I would say the paint was peeling was an existing problem made slightly worse. I'd take my chances. What about the paint lifting? Well, I did this on all the other panels and it is common practice to do so. Could they claim that I should have seen the bobbled paint and known not to tape it? Maybe. It depends on what one considers reasonable.

Now, the guy tripping on a hosepipe, denting his £50k BMW, breaking his arm and having 3 weeks off work. Well, he would sue under tort and have to prove I was negligent. If the hose was all kinked up and around a corner as an obvious trip hazard, then maybe. If it was laid flat on the ground then I doubt it. I am always careful to keep things very tidy at people's homes in a way I am not when I work on my own car. I would say not having insurance makes you more careful and being in situation where you could/would claim is unlikely.

I hope this helps,

Jon

P.S. it is a catch 22.


----------



## Shiny

Hazbobsnr, give us a ring, we do not have a requirement for a minimum of one year's trading. We understand that most new ventures are the next step up from dedicated hobbyists looking to turn their passion into money.

More details are here http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=231099

The damage to items worked upon under our Gold/Platinum options does have an excess of £500, so if you scratch a Mondeo wing and it is £200 for a respray, then this will be below the excess. However, repairs to some vehicles can be very expensive, especially in the case of things like water ingress to an engine.

We live in a litigious society. Even if you are not to blame for incident but a customer is trying to pursue a claim against you, you have the backing and legal representation of an insurer, who will repudiate the claim and take the matter to court if necessary. If they lose the case, then they will indemnify the claim made against you.

I would also like to say the Insurer we use extremely efficient with claims and take a very fair approach to liability. I'm sure anyone who has found the need to claim on their policy with us would agree. We have seen some incidents result in a BACS payment to the policyholder in less that 7 days of being reported.


----------



## Hazbobsnr

Jon Allum said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> I have been running a small detailing company for 2 years and paid out a total of £34 in damage to people's cars.
> 
> The first incident was during an equipment test on a family member's car where some already peeling paint was blown off of a heater control cover. I made an existing problem worse, felt bad and replaced the cover for £24.
> 
> The second was peeling tape off bobbled paint after machine polishing an adjacent panel. This lifted 6 spots off of the paint. I now know how to deal with such situations and it was a learning curve. I showed the customer the damage, apologised and offered him 3 options.
> 
> 1) To take some money off his bill
> 2) Pay for the panel to be resprayed
> 3) Buy some touch up paint for his vehicle and touch it in.
> 
> He chose option 3 and it cost me £10, a trip to Halfords and 20 minutes carefully touching them in. Even the worst case would have been about £150 out of pocket.
> 
> So, if I had insurance I wouldn't have claimed with the excess of £500 (for the Gold policy where this damage to items worked upon clause applies - http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=231099) being higher than the cost of putting it right. Even in the case of respraying a panel and potentially paying for a hire car I would still not have claimed. So in 2 years I have spent £34 and saved £400 on insurance. I would not have claimed either time. I feel the policy excess precludes claims and renders the policy useless. Also, how hard would the insurer work to get out of paying up anyway?
> 
> Now, say I wasn't a good guy and didn't offer to sort out these problems. What would the customer have to do in order to take my limited liability company (not me I am a separate legal identity) to the small claims court and win damages? Well, they would have to prove that I didn't demonstrate reasonable care and skill in carrying out the work. The use of the air blower was used to remove dust and not scratch the trim. It was used on the same finish elsewhere in the car and the paint didn't come off. I would say the paint was peeling was an existing problem made slightly worse. I'd take my chances. What about the paint lifting? Well, I did this on all the other panels and it is common practice to do so. Could they claim that I should have seen the bobbled paint and known not to tape it? Maybe. It depends on what one considers reasonable.
> 
> Now, the guy tripping on a hosepipe, denting his £50k BMW, breaking his arm and having 3 weeks off work. Well, he would sue under tort and have to prove I was negligent. If the hose was all kinked up and around a corner as an obvious trip hazard, then maybe. If it was laid flat on the ground then I doubt it. I am always careful to keep things very tidy at people's homes in a way I am not when I work on my own car. I would say not having insurance makes you more careful and being in situation where you could/would claim is unlikely.
> 
> I hope this helps,
> 
> Jon
> 
> P.S. it is a catch 22.


Hi Jon.

Yes mate, thanks for reply. Food for thought me thinks.

Interesting what you say, cheers.

Regards.

Dave S

Tripping on a hose, worst thing that could happen would be spilling the tea/coffee.


----------



## Hazbobsnr

Shiny said:


> Hazbobsnr, give us a ring, we do not have a requirement for a minimum of one year's trading. We understand that most new ventures are the next step up from dedicated hobbyists looking to turn their passion into money.
> 
> More details are here http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=231099
> 
> The damage to items worked upon under our Gold/Platinum options does have an excess of £500, so if you scratch a Mondeo wing and it is £200 for a respray, then this will be below the excess. However, repairs to some vehicles can be very expensive, especially in the case of things like water ingress to an engine.
> 
> We live in a litigious society. Even if you are not to blame for incident but a customer is trying to pursue a claim against you, you have the backing and legal representation of an insurer, who will repudiate the claim and take the matter to court if necessary. If they lose the case, then they will indemnify the claim made against you.
> 
> I would also like to say the Insurer we use extremely efficient with claims and take a very fair approach to liability. I'm sure anyone who has found the need to claim on their policy with us would agree. We have seen some incidents result in a BACS payment to the policyholder in less that 7 days of being reported.


Hi Lloyd.

Thanks for reply.

Have you got a number I can contact you on please.

Looks like I may be getting more work coming through.

Regards.

Dave S


----------



## Shiny

Hi Dave

Our numbers are in my signature. :thumb:


----------

