# We are considering buying a Renault Zoe electric car



## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Hi all. 

Mrs C. Monster and I have been looking at New cars for her over the past few weeks. We have narrowed the list a fair bit from our starting point and one of our final contenders is the Renault Zoe. 

Now, the thing is that my wife does a 50 mile round trip every day. She also goes to visit her dad twice a month which is a 170 mile round trip. There are charge points on the route to both places and we would like to have some further information to make sure me make the right choice. 

So, my reason for posting is to see if any of the good folk on here have an Electric Vehicle, and to gather your thoughts and opinions on charging, range, usability and whether it's a viable alternative to a modern diesel. 

Thanks in advance. 

Cooks


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

For charging look on zap-maps.com you would need the rapid charge option somewhere on the 170 mile trip.

Have you looked at the Nissan Leaf deals on Bristol Street Motors? £999 down and about £140 a month (including the battery rental) for a mid spec model.


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## phillipnoke (Apr 1, 2011)

Leave well alone


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## SBM (Jul 4, 2013)

DWMember "Pantypoos" has a Nissan Leaf and "Andy665" did a great write up after having a Nissan Leaf on a 1 week test drive:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=359655

Hope that helps Cooks :thumb: Good luck :thumb:

Nice car the Zoe, I like the Leaf but am a Nissan fan:thumb:


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## DLGWRX02 (Apr 6, 2010)

The bit I don't like it in the sales brochure.

"Price excludes mandatory battery hire *from* £25 per month"
"You will not own the battery."


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

I had a look around one and thought it was a very nice little car.

My brother in law had a leaf for a couple of years and swore by it. He only got rid as he's going to be doing regular trips to London so needed a derv.

From what he told me, the only problem is changing points away from home so as long as that's covered then you're fine. They're surprisingly nippy too because of all the torque.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Have you test driven one yet? They are a joy to drive imo, ideally you want to negotiate an extended loan, do that journey and see how it copes.

The concept is ideal for someone who does a particular and regular mileage and is well organised and disciplined and plans their motoring in advance. Would this be your only car or a second car?


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Thanks guys. We are taking a run over to Shelbourne Renault this evening to have a drive. I was actually saying to Mrs CM last night that I'd like to take one out for a weekend to make sure it'd do what we want it to do. 

It'll be a second car for us, we already have my diesel Exeo and Mrs CM has her diesel Megane, which is what we will be changing. 

I'll report back later....

Cooks


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## Kirkyworld (Jan 12, 2014)

Not for me. I think battery technology needs to leap forwards 20 years before a purely electric car is viable. I also do not think they are any better for the environment than a small petrol/diesel.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I had one on a weeks demo from renault fleet and I loved it, charging was an issue because we didn't have a home charger so we had to make do with the renault dealer and a slow charging point in town. You can now charge them off a 3 pin plug which is a bonus. 

I would suggest you try and get a leaf on an extended test drive too, just so you get as much driving time as possible.

However I loved the Zoe and would have one, they are comfortable, quiet and fairly nippy. Have a look on speak ev forums. It seems the Zoe has a better range and is more technologically advanced than the leaf but not quite as reliable and renault customer support is lacking. There are some stonking deals to be found on the leaf too. Don't let people put you off with regards to range and it's not viable, it is but you have to plan ahead.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Kirkyworld said:


> Not for me. I think battery technology needs to leap forwards 20 years before a purely electric car is viable. I also do not think they are any better for the environment than a small petrol/diesel.


20 years? I think you mean 2... Nissan have said their next Leaf due in 2017 should have double the range of todays model..So 200 miles.

If the Average car does 12K a year...that's only 32 miles a day = 1 charge per week @ approx. 2 quid a charge from home.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

SteveTDCi said:


> You can now charge them off a 3 pin plug which is a bonus.


Are you absolutely sure about that Steve?

I know the little Twizzy has always been able to run off a 13amp plug, but I'm not so sure that's available on the Zoe yet.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

Kirkyworld said:


> Not for me. I think battery technology needs to leap forwards 20 years before a purely electric car is viable. I also do not think they are any better for the environment than a small petrol/diesel.


Have you heard of Tesla? 300miles from a single charge and itll outrun a BMW M5 in a drag.

Having been privileged enough to drive one, I would disagree with you. The Tesla may not be the sharpest handler but its seriously fun to drive, all that torque is insane, especially in "INSANE mode"

Did you just say "better for the environment" and "diesel" in the same sentence?


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

S63 said:


> Are you absolutely sure about that Steve?
> 
> I know the little Twizzy has always been able to run off a 13amp plug, but I'm not so sure that's available on the Zoe yet.


It's a £495 option, I don't think it's been about long though. It's a 10amp cable, but most would use the fast charger but if you went visiting someone you could always recharge it overnight.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Kirkyworld said:


> Not for me. I think battery technology needs to leap forwards 20 years before a purely electric car is viable. I also do not think they are any better for the environment than a small petrol/diesel.


The technology will move on at a rapid pace, remember how quickly mobile phone tech accelerated? Companies including Renault are putting in huge resources to explore the electric car concept including a race series which doesn't seem to have caught the imagination of the race fan but I'm sure the technology in the hands of highly skilled race teams can only be a major plus.

I don't know where you live but all around me are wind farms off the coastline and fields full of solar panels, if you can run a car of their output I cannot see how a combustion engine could compete environmentally.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

I was speaking to the dealership last night and the salesman confirmed that it can be charged using a 3 pin plug. Although I'll need to clarify if this is a cost option. 

I'm actually looking forward to the drive now. 

Regarding the Leaf, the offers on over here in NI are roughly £2 - £2.5 k deposit and £200 a month including battery rental, I think. Will investigate further later. 

Cooks


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## pantypoos (Aug 7, 2014)

Hi Cooks,

As SBM pointed out, i have a Leaf and since getting it i haven't looked back, i think it is an excellent car.

i looked at the Zoe before getting the leaf but struggled to get test drives and got fed up with the lack of info from Renault dealers. I also found the Zoe to be much smaller than the leaf, and it didn't feel as high tech inside, but i did prefer the styling.

I would recommend getting test drives of both to see what you think, most dealers will let you take them for up to a week to test out how they fit your lifestyle.

You'll have no problem with the 50 mile trips, and the 170 mile trip will be possible, but to make life easier I'd use the other car.

have a look at this book on amazon, it is more aimed at the Leaf but much of the info is generic to electric cars it will give you a good insight into what it is like to own an electric car.

The Electric Car Guide: Nissan LEAF: Amazon.co.uk: Michael Boxwell: 9781907670480: Books

hope this helps.


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## pantypoos (Aug 7, 2014)

Kirkyworld said:


> Not for me. I think battery technology needs to leap forwards 20 years before a purely electric car is viable. I also do not think they are any better for the environment than a small petrol/diesel.


Have a look at this to see the carbon footprint for electric vehicles compared to petrol and diesel cars.

http://www.theelectriccarguide.net/green-electric-cars.aspx

they are well to wheel figures that take into account the whole process from mining, refining and transportation.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Kirkyworld said:


> Not for me. I think battery technology needs to leap forwards 20 years before a purely electric car is viable. I also do not think they are any better for the environment than a small petrol/diesel.





robertdon777 said:


> 20 years? I think you mean 2... Nissan have said their next Leaf due in 2017 should have double the range of todays model..So 200 miles.
> 
> If the Average car does 12K a year...that's only 32 miles a day = 1 charge per week @ approx. 2 quid a charge from home.





S63 said:


> The technology will move on at a rapid pace, remember how quickly mobile phone tech accelerated? Companies including Renault are putting in huge resources to explore the electric car concept including a race series which doesn't seem to have caught the imagination of the race fan but I'm sure the technology in the hands of highly skilled race teams can only be a major plus.
> 
> I don't know where you live but all around me are wind farms off the coastline and fields full of solar panels, if you can run a car of their output I cannot see how a combustion engine could compete environmentally.


A side point, but battery technology has not moved forward that dramatically in the last decade, maybe longer, most on the improvement in battery life of gadgets has come from better and more efficient use energy. Both from the hardware and software.


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## SBM (Jul 4, 2013)

Sub'd :thumb:

Great input all :thumb:


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

robertdon777 said:


> 20 years? I think you mean 2... Nissan have said their next Leaf due in 2017 should have double the range of todays model..So 200 miles.
> 
> If the Average car does 12K a year...that's only 32 miles a day = 1 charge per week @ approx. 2 quid a charge from home.


Who spreads their mileage over 7 days a week?

For work I could manage with the leaf, just. The BMW i3 with range extender get's around all this issue and is a great idea. Unfortunately it's a lot more expensive.


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

robertdon777 said:


> 20 years? I think you mean 2... Nissan have said their next Leaf due in 2017 should have double the range of todays model..So 200 miles.


So how much do you think your model will be worth in 3 years once that comes out?

Pennies!


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

ardandy said:


> So how much do you think your model will be worth in 3 years once that comes out?
> 
> Pennies!


Like every other car, remember the leaf will be 3rd generation so you can already work out the loss in value between the first and second in 3 years....much the same as any other hatch going by Auto trader prices.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

ardandy said:


> Who spreads their mileage over 7 days a week?
> 
> For work I could manage with the leaf, just. The BMW i3 with range extender get's around all this issue and is a great idea. Unfortunately it's a lot more expensive.


Doesn't matter how you spread the mileage its still really only 1 charge per week on the average usage of the average driver in the UK....that's a big market.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I wouldn't worry about depreciation most would buy new on a pcp. There are a lot with 0 deposit and low monthly payments. Offers on the Zoe are around £150 per month including battery rental. I spend more on fuel at the minute.

Could you not buy the car on the mainland then re-register it with dvla NI ? Or is it a pain for you having a uk car in NI ?


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

It's a thought that as crossed my mind @SteveTDCi - our NI Dvla closed last year so all registrations and road fund is dealt with by Swansea anyway, the only difference is getting an NI plate allocated which is exactly the same process. 

There appears to be a number of far better deals over with you than there are over here at the minute, for the Leaf anyway. I'm looking at a hefty deposit witg the dealers here, whereas there appears to be no deposit over there. I'd be very tempted!!!

Cooks

Btw - Northern Ireland is part of the UK. You may have seen my rant elsewhere in the forum about postage costs lol.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I remember(2004) we put a ford mondeo in one of our offices as a pool car in NI and there were querks, like the mot being different and not everyone liking a uk mainland plate over there in the erm .... Uk ! It's not even a vat thing as you have the same vat, it's just Southern Ireland that has different vat rules irc.

I would have thought a uk dealer can register it withal can number plate on it as I'm sure I had our lease company do that.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Cheers Steve - I have an English plate on my car, albeit a personalised one. There are loads of Mainland cars with the ab12 abc type plates over here as loads of the dealers here buy their stock at auctions like BCA and SMA. It's free to get an NI plate put on when you first register it at an NI address though. 

I'm just wondering if a mainland dealer could deliver to me. May be worth a call to one in the morning. 

Cooks


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## Ben Williams (Sep 16, 2011)

I'm due to have one of these on trial next week with work, so look forward to playing with it and driving it


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## pantypoos (Aug 7, 2014)

Bero said:


> A side point, but battery technology has not moved forward that dramatically in the last decade, maybe longer, most on the improvement in battery life of gadgets has come from better and more efficient use energy. Both from the hardware and software.


I don't agree.

Battery developers have already created a new generation electric vehicle battery pack that is 30% lighter, 30% more compact and 30% cheaper than the current batteries used in electric vehicles. These batteries are approximately 1/100th of the cost and 25 times the capacity of the original lithium-ion batteries created back in the early 90s

This info is taken from the book i linked to earlier on amazon, here is a pic of the page.










Here's a better link to it, http://issuu.com/greenstream/docs/nissan_leaf_-_issuu.docx/13?e=1726352/12093270 check out page 6


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

A main dealer should deliver it too you, if not catch a flight across and drive it back. Dealers tend to have a fit when they see the price of a ferry ticket. Dsg morecambe are active on the ev forum.

I would guess that most Zoe's are delivered on a trailer to preserve the range.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Took a drive for about an hour earlier this evening. Really impressed to be honest. When I set off, the range was at 62 miles. When I had finished it was at 51 and by my calculation I had driven somewhere between 20-25 miles (forgot to look at the odometer when setting off).

The car is nippy and I could see us owning one, but only if we used the home charge point. Me and Mrs CM had a chat and we can't see ourselves regularly using the free charge points on a regular basis unless these are close to workplaces (which they're not at present) or when in town doing some shopping. 

The sales guy is arranging for me to have one for 3-4 days so I can see how it will work for us. However, even using the home charge point, it will only cost approximately £1.50 - £2 for each charge. So for all intents and purposes, our fuel bill for the car, worst case, will be about 50 quid a month. Saving us about £120

Still considering.....

Cooks


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I did a few quick calculations when considering the "electric" route against the saab

£150 per month for 2 years £3600
No tax 
No mot
No tyres etc, no service
Electric £200

Total cost over 2 years, £3800

Saab estate 

£3600 in fuel
£580 tax
£150 for 2 tyres
£100 on service parts
£80 mot
£150 to fix things

Total cost over 2 years £4840 ....


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## SBM (Jul 4, 2013)

Hi Cookies,

any progression on the Zoe - have you decided to get one?

Cheers
Ben


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

Some cheap lease deals on the Zoe at the moment including battery lease.


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

It's the battery life That worries me on both the leaf and Zoe. Love the concept but they aren't for me until you can get at least a range of 200 miles. 

Only the other weekend I had a few errands to do and ended up clocking up 105 miles... Granted I don't do it every day but it would restrict you some what. 

My petrol head friend is Cknsidering a Zoe for his wife for the runs to work and back. He has solar panels now so would cost him next to nothing to run.


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

Range anxiety is a big problem. If I was ever forced to give up public transport for my commute I would look at something leccy.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

The zoe ended up being a non starter (pun?) guys. In the winter months the range is likely to dip down into the mid 60 mile bracket. The commute to her work is a 52 mile round trip. So it'd be like driving the car in the red all the time.

Ended up with a Citroen DS3 D style plus 1.6 e hdi. It's amazing!!! We are very happy.








Cooks


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Nice choice, the ds3 still looks great even after the years it's been about.


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## SBM (Jul 4, 2013)

Thats a cracking little motor - bet Mrs C is pleased 

Love these in that colour scheme too, I believe, Like the Juke, white IS scientifically proven to be the fastest colour too


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## Lloyd71 (Aug 21, 2008)

You experienced the same problems we had with the electric car range - winter. We had a Leaf on loan for a while and if we wanted to drive it back up to the Midlands from the Isle of Wight during the winter time we worked out we would have to stop at least 3 times to recharge it. That's if the charge points are working and the parking spots aren't taken up by someone in a car with a regular engine.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Lloyd71 said:


> You experienced the same problems we had with the electric car range - winter. We had a Leaf on loan for a while and if we wanted to drive it back up to the Midlands from the Isle of Wight during the winter time we worked out we would have to stop at least 3 times to recharge it. That's if the charge points are working and the parking spots aren't taken up by someone in a car with a regular engine.


That's when you take the offer of 14days free car rental.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

robertdon777 said:


> That's when you take the offer of 14days free car rental.


Or just but a car that suits your needs 100% of the time rather than messing about organising hire cars :thumb:


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Thats why when looking at the leaf it will be a 2nd car for us, not the only car.

Which wouldn't make any sense.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Bero said:


> Or just but a car that suits your needs 100% of the time rather than messing about organising hire cars :thumb:


Ahhh but the electric brigade would say your normal daily car only suits 20% of your needs.

But that argument could run and run.

I still say once the range goes to 200 miles (a proper 200 so claimed 300) the face of driving and Car power forms will change forever. Our children won't know what a gearstick is for or why we needed one. As for stopping at a petrol station...10-15 years time....nah no chance, kids won't be doing that.

Car Power will advance very very fast now all the big manufacturers are on this path.


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

We do 70miles a day for commute and realistic range of leaf (2ng gen 2015 model) is 80-90miles so perfect for us with the other car on standby.

By my calcs we're £140 better off on fuel and £190 for the car.

£50pm for a new car!


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## SBM (Jul 4, 2013)

robertdon777 said:


> Ahhh but the electric brigade would say your normal daily car only suits 20% of your needs.
> 
> But that argument could run and run.
> 
> ...


Oh Jeez so in a few years time its gonna be like Mad Max between those of us running V8's and V10's for every drip of rare petrol we can lay our hands on :lol:

Think you may well be right though ...


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Electric cars will have a realistic v8 soundtrack by then


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Like BMW's you mean.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Or Renault  have you found a good leaf deal yet ?


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

SBM said:


> Oh Jeez so in a few years time its gonna be like Mad Max between those of us running V8's and V10's for every drip of rare petrol we can lay our hands on :lol:
> 
> Think you may well be right though ...


True, the more EV on the road the less demand for petrol there will be......and the prices will tumble!

--------------------

Lloyd71 - Did you know when you buy a Leaf they also offer complimentary 14day hire car when you need to go longer distances and recharging is less than ideal. It's a great idea, I think you should re-consider and buy one! :thumb::lol:


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## Lloyd71 (Aug 21, 2008)

Bero said:


> Lloyd71 - Did you know when you buy a Leaf they also offer complimentary 14day hire car when you need to go longer distances and recharging is less than ideal. It's a great idea, I think you should re-consider and buy one! :thumb::lol:


14 days a year wouldn't cover us for our Christmas break let alone the rest of the year! :lol:


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