# Should have fitted my winter tyres sooner!



## ohms12

If you look at my tyre tracks you can see I literally slid sideways into my parking spot. I've been putting it off the last few days and BAM! It snows. No warning or anything! Need to make it a few miles down the road to get my winters out of storage. Here's to hoping I make it. Haha.

P.S: If you're driving a RWD car and wondering if you should buy winters or not, I urge you to do it. You'll be passing 4WD cars for fun, honestly. The looks on Land Rover owners' faces is priceless when you whizz by them!


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## robtech

wheres that dude? reminds me of a street in bearsden area or dumfries....top tip,drop your tyre pressures 10psi in snow


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## AaronGTi

Reminds me of a street in Largo


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## Bill58

robtech said:


> wheres that dude? reminds me of a street in bearsden area or dumfries....top tip,drop your tyre pressures 10psi in snow


Before doing the above have a read at this from Michelin.

The Fill up with Air roadshow visited 17 locations in the UK and Ireland and checked more than 2,600 vehicles.

• 65 per cent incorrect pressures, including 7 per cent over inflated
• 35 per cent were found to have dangerously low pressures (identified as being more than 7psi (0.5bar) below recommended pressure), with 10 per cent very dangerous (more than 14psi(1bar) below recommended pressure)
• 5 per cent had a puncture

Having the correct pressures in your tyres - the only contact between your car and the road - is essential for safety and efficiency. Under-inflated tyres can be dangerous; running 30 per cent below the recommended pressures gives a sharp increase in the risk of aquaplaning on wet roads. Low pressure also affects the car's handling and reduces cornering ability, and can cause a build up of excess heat that can permanently weaken the tyre's structure, possibly causing it to fail.

Please also note that you will also make your insurance invalid.


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## robtech

utter crap,,its been known for 100 years if your driving in snow you drop your pressures,,,,

honestly mate you need to get a grip on reality

insurance invalid..lol that means that 99% of vehicles on the road are invalid as they dont have the correct psi as dictated by WHO BABY JESUS pmsl


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## Richf

Bill58 said:


> Please also note that you will also make your insurance invalid.


Rubbish , what total nonsense a good post ruined


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## Ric

.....


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## The Cueball

I should have worked on the winter beast Jeep and not the RWD Lexus at the weekend... 

:lol: :wall::wall::wall::wall:


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## Bliss

robtech said:


> utter crap,,its been known for 100 years if your driving in snow you drop your pressures,,,,
> 
> honestly mate you need to get a grip on reality
> 
> insurance invalid..lol that means that 99% of vehicles on the road are invalid as they dont have the correct psi as dictated by WHO BABY JESUS pmsl


Sorry if you fall of your unicorn as this may come as a shock to your reality.



> A faulty tyre can pose a serious safety risk and could invalidate a car insurance policy if you ever needed to make a claim, so it's important to make sure your wheels are properly inflated and have the correct tread.


http://www.confused.com/car-insurance/articles/why-it-pays-to-check-your-tyres

You should also read: http://www.lv.com/insurance/car_ins.../hints-and-tips/tyres-and-your-car-insurance/

Also deflating your tires would decrease your grip while driving in snow as you spread the weight of the vehicle more, so there is no benefit in doing it. Generally speaking the more narrow the contact patch is the more grip you will have. The only time when it is wise to reduce pressure in the snow is when you are in a 4x4 on a farm track or such and you don't want to bog down.


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## steveo3002

Bill58 said:


> Please also note that you will also make your insurance invalid.


no it doesnt


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## The Cueball

I don't get the wrong pressure could invalidate your insurance?!?!?!

Can't see how that works...

Bald tyres, yes... old cracked tyres... ok maybe...

But are people seriously saying that if I hit the back of someone, and the insurance company checks my PSI and a tyre is at 29 and not 30 as per the handbook, they are going to cancel the policy!??!

I think not... and I'll argue that they must be a h£ll of a lot of people with invalid insurance on our roads if that is the case.... 

:thumb:


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## Hotchy

I always thought that if your stuck in the snow, drop the tyre pressure and it helps get you up the hill.


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## Junior Bear

im not looking forward to winter in the 182


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## Richrush

robtech said:


> wheres that dude? reminds me of a street in bearsden area or dumfries....top tip,drop your tyre pressures 10psi in snow


I was told the opposite as this increases the surface area of your tyre and you need to decrease it as per the rally car tyres. This helps it dig through the snow :thumb:


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## Naddy37

ohms12 said:


> P.S: If you're driving a RWD car and wondering if you should buy winters or not, I urge you to do it. You'll be passing 4WD cars for fun, honestly. The looks on Land Rover owners' faces is priceless when you whizz by them!


Are they seriously that different/good? This is the first time the E250 has had them fitted.

I can't wait for snow, going sideways wasn't fun last year....


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## Bliss

The Cueball said:


> I don't get the wrong pressure could invalidate your insurance?!?!?!
> 
> Can't see how that works...
> 
> Bald tyres, yes... old cracked tyres... ok maybe...
> 
> But are people seriously saying that if I hit the back of someone, and the insurance company checks my PSI and a tyre is at 29 and not 30 as per the handbook, they are going to cancel the policy!??!
> 
> I think not... and I'll argue that they must be a h£ll of a lot of people with invalid insurance on our roads if that is the case....
> 
> :thumb:


If it's a breach of your policy, in short, yes. I haven't checked but I would imagine there is a percentage (Or a reasonable flat number, eg. 5psi) you would have to be inside for it to be valid. Obviously if the tire deflates because of the crash they won't have a leg to stand on.

It would be naive to think otherwise, remember these are insurance companies we are talking about. They won't want to pay out and they will do anything thats legal to not do so, I don't see why it's such a surprise considering how much a defect tire can cause lack of control anyway.

About a lot of people having invalid insurances, I'm going to agree with you there, according to robtech people have been running on deflated tires for a 100 years. :lol:


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## ohms12

neilos said:


> Are they seriously that different/good? This is the first time the E250 has had them fitted.
> 
> I can't wait for snow, going sideways wasn't fun last year....


Huge difference. I was getting up some seriously steep inclines last year. Not only that, the grip it gives you in cold/wet/icy conditions is amazing, you feel like you're driving in the dry.

Watch this:


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## avit88

robtech said:


> wheres that dude? reminds me of a street in bearsden area or dumfries....top tip,drop your tyre pressures 10psi in snow


WRONG!!!! dont do this unless you want to die in the next couple of months! Such and old wife's tale! It does not give you more grip and also makes the car unstable as it allows the car to move around on the tyre more!

Nowhere in your handbook does it say drop your tyre pressures. They need to be at the correct pressure for luggage, occupants etc.

There was a boy at my highschool who rolled his saxo because he had a car full of people and the tyres were under pressure for the amount of people in his car... went round a bend and flipped....

would you lower your tyre pressures in normal weather to get more grip? er noooo! so why do you think it would give you more grip in the snow? it doesnt work that way mate.


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## avit88

Richrush said:


> I was told the opposite as this increases the surface area of your tyre and you need to decrease it as per the rally car tyres. This helps it dig through the snow :thumb:


WRONG AGAIN!! Increasing pressure raises the tyre off the ground and reduces road contact, you will be running on the centre section of the tyre therefore limiting its grip....

the way a tyre grips in snow is from the snow compacting in the tread of the tyre and then this snow grabs at the snow on the ground giving friction. So if you have half your tyre in the air as a result of overinflating it and running on the centre section you are minimising the number of tread blocks that can clog up with snow..

snow tyres are designed with more snow capturing tread therefore giving you more traction.


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## avit88

The Cueball said:


> I don't get the wrong pressure could invalidate your insurance?!?!?!
> 
> Can't see how that works...
> 
> Bald tyres, yes... old cracked tyres... ok maybe...
> 
> But are people seriously saying that if I hit the back of someone, and the insurance company checks my PSI and a tyre is at 29 and not 30 as per the handbook, they are going to cancel the policy!??!
> 
> I think not... and I'll argue that they must be a h£ll of a lot of people with invalid insurance on our roads if that is the case....
> 
> :thumb:


yeah they cant do this... i can guarantee if you checked a tyre with 3 different gauges they would all give a slightly different reading, depends how well they have been caliberated....


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## Bliss

avit88 said:


> yeah they cant do this... i can guarantee if you checked a tyre with 3 different gauges they would all give a slightly different reading, depends how well they have been caliberated....


They can, check my previous post on the first page, if it's in your policy it will invalidate your contract with the insurers. As I also said earlier I would imagine there is some leeway regarding pressures but haven't checked as I'm not the sort of person who goes out and deflates my tires when it snows.

To those thinking of getting winter tires make sure you get all 4, not just for your drive wheels. Otherwise you aren't going to have much fun when you need to brake harshly and your car starts spinning because the 2 winter tires are gripping and the other 2 are sliding.


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## Bero

Bliss said:


> To those thinking of getting winter tires make sure you get all 4, not just for your drive wheels. Otherwise you aren't going to have much fun when you need to brake harshly and your car starts spinning because the 2 winter tires are gripping and the other 2 are sliding.


Two winters are far better than none! Grip balance changes on 2wd cars as two tyres wear quicker than the others...then go round a corner and you have 4 tyres all with different levels of grip....people manage not to fall off the road tho! Same with acceleration, breaking, lane change and if you have your kids in the back or car weight balance.......

People get stuck in winter due to lack of traction, 2 with winters on the front of a FWD car they help with traction. People crash in winter mostly because they are stupid or drive out with the conditions....tyre choice does not change that. :doublesho



avit88 said:


> There was a boy at my highschool who rolled his saxo because he had a car full of people and the tyres were under pressure for the amount of people in his car... went round a bend and flipped....


Who said the crash was directly because tyre pressure? Do i need to increase my tyre pressure at Tesco for the journey home and drop it when I get there? What about when I fill the car with fuel...should I top it up then?


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## philmots

I've just got 2 on the back of my 3 series.

I'm not planning on driving any faster or any less careful - I only ever use it to get to work (early hours - no traffic - fresh snow) 

On my old 330 my only issue was getting up hills, and getting caught on cambers the drive wheels just span and you went the way the road goes.

Winters on the back will sort all of that. No issues.


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## Porkypig

There is little doubt that winter tyres are better for winter driving for al;l the reasons you can read about and expect, however, my frustation comes when I get stuck in a jam cos the people at the front are stuck cos they don;t have winter tyres. 

£800 on winter tyres and still have to dump the stranded motor!!! I believe it is law in some european countries to run winter tyres, not a bad idea but can you imagine the speed cameras, sorry traffic wombles trying to enforce that one...


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## avit88

Bero said:


> Two winters are far better than none! Grip balance changes on 2wd cars as two tyres wear quicker than the others...then go round a corner and you have 4 tyres all with different levels of grip....people manage not to fall off the road tho! Same with acceleration, breaking, lane change and if you have your kids in the back or car weight balance.......
> 
> People get stuck in winter due to lack of traction, 2 with winters on the front of a FWD car they help with traction. People crash in winter mostly because they are stupid or drive out with the conditions....tyre choice does not change that. :doublesho
> 
> *Who said the crash was directly because tyre pressure? Do i need to increase my tyre pressure at Tesco for the journey home and drop it when I get there? What about when I fill the car with fuel...should I top it up then? *


was determined by police and if u knew anything about tyre pressures you would know you dont need to change your tyre pressures for 2 adults and their luggage which accounts for the tesco shop, smart ****.

reason he rolled was because there were five adults in the car and his tyres were well underflated.

also 2 on the front is dangerous, think about if you have to jam on the brakes the back has less grip and its likely they will slide round. i should imagine 2 on the back is far better you would just have to go steady into bends.


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## apmaman

I personally dont think the UK should have a legal law requiring winter tyres...

I've had mines fitted since the middle of Novemeber and its been great. A few hard frosty mornings where the gritters havent been out made for some fun and games with the TC off but even pushing the TC lights havent flashed up. The car always feels planted and glued to the road, even when your trying to be a bit of a dafty to see how much they'll take.

Well worth it tbh. I just wish I didnt by steel wheels and bought alloys instead, purely for looks. 
I thought my white steel wheels looked different and set the car off but I'm not keen on them now but I dont have £300 for new wheels. Especially when the car will swapped in 18months.


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## Bero

avit88 said:


> was determined by police and if u knew anything about tyre pressures you would know you dont need to change your tyre pressures for 2 adults and their luggage which accounts for the tesco shop, smart ****.


Who's being smart? It's real world question and you're apparently the expert. What if i go to Tesco with two friends and buy shopping?



avit88 said:


> also 2 on the front is dangerous, think about if you have to jam on the brakes the back has less grip and its likely they will slide round. i should imagine 2 on the back is far better you would just have to go steady into bends.


If you're stupid in any conditions you will crash - having more traction on the driving wheels reduces your chances of getting stuck though and IM Experience it's safer, if you can't steer or stop you don't have any options....if you can steer better you have the possibility of avoiding whatever you're sliding towards - I've done it for many years, now use 4 as the car is 4WD and it's easier having two sets of wheels. Of course not getting into that situation if the 1st place is the key, but if you're there I know what I'd rather!

Jam on the brakes with 4 winter/any tyres on you will slide/trigger ABS, but your fronts will tent to go 1st, look at any car trying to slow down in ICE and you can see the fronts causing the fronts causing the ABS to activate. The back always has less grip, it has to to with majority of cars weight distribution and weight transfer under deceleration 'if you knew anything about driving or physics' you would know this, it's compensated primarily by the size of the disks, pad size, number of caliper pots, brake biasing and secondary by the ABS system...it's primary purpose it do prevent any wheels locking up and causing the car to spin 'anyone who drives knows this'. Many cars that go on tracks upgrade the disks and calipers...this is often just on the front - because the rears do very little work, <25% is often branded about for similar reasons.


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## Derekh929

LOL 1/2 inch not going to stop a mouse never mind a car, mind you have seen a few epic fails in that depth as well LOL aye get the snow tyres on quick


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## avit88

Bero said:


> Who's being smart? It's real world question and you're apparently the expert. *What if i go to Tesco with two friends and buy shopping?*
> 
> If you're stupid in any conditions you will crash - having more traction on the driving wheels reduces your chances of getting stuck though and IM Experience it's safer, if you can't steer or stop you don't have any options....if you can steer better you have the possibility of avoiding whatever you're sliding towards - I've done it for many years, now use 4 as the car is 4WD and it's easier having two sets of wheels. Of course not getting into that situation if the 1st place is the key, but if you're there I know what I'd rather!
> 
> Jam on the brakes with 4 winter/any tyres on you will slide/trigger ABS, but your fronts will tent to go 1st, look at any car trying to slow down in ICE and you can see the fronts causing the fronts causing the ABS to activate. The back always has less grip, it has to to with majority of cars weight distribution and weight transfer under deceleration 'if you knew anything about driving or physics' you would know this, it's compensated primarily by the size of the disks, pad size, number of caliper pots, brake biasing and secondary by the ABS system...it's primary purpose it do prevent any wheels locking up and causing the car to spin 'anyone who drives knows this'. Many cars that go on tracks upgrade the disks and calipers...this is often just on the front - because the rears do very little work, <25% is often branded about for similar reasons.


if u want to get out and pump your tyres up mate go for it....:tumbleweed:

ok so all that babble at the end which sounds like you've just copied out a wiki entry supports the fact that having normal tyres on the back and winters on the front is bad... so thanks for that :thumb::wall:


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## Bliss

avit88 said:


> also 2 on the front is dangerous, think about if you have to jam on the brakes the back has less grip and its likely they will slide round. i should imagine 2 on the back is far better you would just have to go steady into bends.


Under steer comes to mind :lol:.



Bero said:


> People get stuck in winter due to lack of traction, 2 with winters on the front of a FWD car they help with traction. People crash in winter mostly because they are stupid or drive out with the conditions....tyre choice does not change that. :doublesho


Totally agree, driving to the conditions is the best thing to do. I don't use winter tires at all, I don't drive up big hills in the snow (that often :driver so I don't need the extra traction and I have confidence in my driving and car to know what speed I should be able to travel at.

An interesting video though that proves that 4 is still the best way to go:


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## spursfan

philmots said:


> I've just got 2 on the back of my 3 series.
> 
> I'm not planning on driving any faster or any less careful - I only ever use it to get to work (early hours - no traffic - fresh snow)
> 
> On my old 330 my only issue was getting up hills, and getting caught on cambers the drive wheels just span and you went the way the road goes.
> 
> Winters on the back will sort all of that. No issues.


Taken from http://www.rrg-group.com/wintertyres website...

Can I fit just two winter tyres if I only have a front wheel drive car?

Fitting less than four cold weather tyres could cause problems with the car. The car may skid or be more difficult to control if only two cold weather tyres are fitted to one of the axles.

always have 4 winter tyres fitted:thumb:


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## Mini 360

Bill58 said:


> Please also note that you will also make your insurance invalid.


Total balls


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## spursfan

robtech said:


> wheres that dude? reminds me of a street in bearsden area or dumfries....top tip,drop your tyre pressures 10psi in snow


http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/winter-tyres-in-the-uk.html
Tread depth and pressure

Whatever tyres you fit they must have enough tread - at least 3mm is recommended for winter, and certainly no less than 2mm.

*Check tyre pressures too but don't be tempted to try reducing pressure when there's snow and ice about - it doesn't help with grip and can affect handling*


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## Bill58

Mini 360 said:


> Total balls


Direct Line Insurance who I'm insured with stated "If you intentionaly reduce your tyre pressure and it is under the manufacturers recommended pressure you would invalidated your policy" 10psi under the recommended pressure as suggested would make your policy invalid.


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## Junior Bear

Tbh though, wouldn't crashing due to snow make it difficult to claim anyway because its an act of god?


I'd rather invalidate my insurance to make something safer if I wasn't gonna get paid for damages anyway


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## Bliss

Junior Bear said:


> Tbh though, wouldn't crashing due to snow make it difficult to claim anyway because its an act of god?
> 
> I'd rather invalidate my insurance to make something safer if I wasn't gonna get paid for damages anyway


Read the thread, it might save your life.


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## k9vnd

Bill58 said:


> Direct Line Insurance who I'm insured with stated "If you intentionaly reduce your tyre pressure and it is under the manufacturers recommended pressure you would invalidated your policy" 10psi under the recommended pressure as suggested would make your policy invalid.


Bud am with direct line and reading flicking through the policy document's, what page does it state that?

And if your a liar:doublesho


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## Junior Bear

Bliss said:


> Read the thread, it might save your life.


Going slow and steady will too


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## amatkins

Bliss said:


> Generally speaking the more narrow the contact patch is the more grip you will have.


Hmmm... This doesn't make sense to me.


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## Junior Bear

amatkins said:


> Hmmm... This doesn't make sense to me.


Me either

F1 cars should be using bicycle tyres if its true


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## cheekymonkey

[QUOTE=avit88;3831038

There was a boy at my highschool who rolled his saxo because he had a car full of people and the tyres were under pressure for the amount of people in his car... went round a bend and flipped....



at a guess i think it is more lickly the car rolled due to him going to fast for the road and conditions then anything


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## Bill58

k9vnd said:


> Bud am with direct line and reading flicking through the policy document's, what page does it state that?
> 
> And if your a liar:doublesho


Phone them, that statement came from their underwriters!


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## The Cueball

Junior Bear said:


> Me either
> 
> F1 cars should be using bicycle tyres if its true


It is true... Look at a rally car, in summer on Tarmac, big alloys, low profile, fat tyres...

Then look at them in snow, small wheels, big sidewalls and thin tyres...

Also the reason your big chavvy 'offroaders' can't drive in the snow, big, fat, low profile tyres..

Check out defenders, Cherokees etc, high sidewalks, thin tyres... 

:thumb:


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## cheekymonkey

Bill58 said:


> Direct Line Insurance who I'm insured with stated "If you intentionaly reduce your tyre pressure and it is under the manufacturers recommended pressure you would invalidated your policy" 10psi under the recommended pressure as suggested would make your policy invalid.


your missing the big point, it says if you intentionally reduce your tyre presure, bit hard for them to prove me thinks.


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## Junior Bear

Exactly, in different weather conditions


I was referring to the guy saying its a rule of thumb


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## Obsessed Merc

Just put winter wheels on wife's car.
They are narrower.

I have no idea whether that's good or bad for traction (a few hot under the collar on this thread already..) BUT TWO THINGS FOR SURE :

1. It will not improve her driving.
2. She will kerb the feckers inside a week.


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## Darlofan

At the end of the day it's your driving style that keeps you on the road. There can't be that many places south of Scotland that Winter tyres will be useful in as well. I'm in North Wales and have never driven more than two or three streets before getting to gritted roads that are clear. Aren't winter tyres only recommended for temps of -7C? Majority of the country you'd have to put your Summer tyres back on after 8am!!


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## cheekymonkey

amatkins said:


> Hmmm... This doesn't make sense to me.


with thinner tyres your putting the weight of the car on smaller contact points which cuts through the snow easier. It works the opposite to snow shoes :thumb:


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## Junior Bear

That makes sense


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## apmaman

The Cueball said:


> It is true... Look at a rally car, in summer on Tarmac, big alloys, low profile, fat tyres...
> 
> Then look at them in snow, small wheels, big sidewalls and thin tyres...
> 
> Also the reason your big chavvy 'offroaders' can't drive in the snow, big, fat, low profile tyres..
> 
> Check out defenders, Cherokees etc, high sidewalks, thin tyres...
> 
> :thumb:


Which is also why cars never "needed" them "back in day"

All cars had small, thin wheels unlike todays phat tyres. The thinner the tyre the better it can cut through the white stuff. It's also why tractors have thin tyres.

While they are still very wide compared to car tyres, they're offset by how god damn tall they are so stick to the same principle of putting the weight on a small point.


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## andy monty

Oh yes it does...... Well it is panto season after all.....


Remember the hysteria the other year when fitting snow tyres was shouted about in the media that it invalidated your insurance.... They will look for any excuse to avoid paying out and handing them a "defect" on a platter will make their share holders day..... :devil:


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## ohms12

Darlofan said:


> At the end of the day it's your driving style that keeps you on the road. There can't be that many places south of Scotland that Winter tyres will be useful in as well. I'm in North Wales and have never driven more than two or three streets before getting to gritted roads that are clear. Aren't winter tyres only recommended for temps of -7C? Majority of the country you'd have to put your Summer tyres back on after 8am!!


No, they're recommended for temperatures of 7 degrees or below. I don't know about you, but in Scotland during the winter, the temp is regularly below that. Not only that, but it dramatically improves braking in wet weather too (Rains in Wales all the time). When 7 deg or below, braking on a wet - not icy - road from 50mph, summer tyres will need 40 metres to stop, when winter tyres will stop in 34 metres. 6m is quite a lot!

If it's an issue about price, think of it this way. If you buy a set of winters, it'll easily last you 2 seasons. In those 2 seasons you won't be using your summer tyres. So come April, you switch back to the summers, which will be the same depth you left them in November. Winters aren't even necessarily more expensive than normal summers either, so you're getting better grip and traction for what cost? No brainer if you ask me.


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## ohms12

Oh, the average winter temps in Wales: Nov - 8º, Dec - 5º, Jan - 3º, Feb - 4º, March - 7º.

Scotland: Nov - 7º, Dec - 4º, Jan - 2º, Feb - 3º, March - 6º.

England - Nov - 8º, Dec - 5º, Jan - 3º, Feb - 4º, March - 7º. (Winter temp average 4.4º)


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## The Cueball

well this is a fun thread... :lol:

anyway, i'm off to work now, in my Volvo, with winter tyres.... but there is actually snow on the ground, and at the moment, it's minus 12...

oh, and I know every other car on the road has them as well... by law.... which (to me at least) is a pretty important fact...

anyway, as you were ladies, enjoy! 

:thumb:


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## Shug

The Cueball said:


> well this is a fun thread... :lol:
> 
> anyway, i'm off to work now, in my Volvo, with winter tyres.... but there is actually snow on the ground, and at the moment, it's minus 12...


Its 2 degrees here. Move away from the west to the tropics mate :lol:


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## spursfan

Darlofan said:


> At the end of the day it's your driving style that keeps you on the road. There can't be that many places south of Scotland that Winter tyres will be useful in as well. I'm in North Wales and have never driven more than two or three streets before getting to gritted roads that are clear. Aren't winter tyres only recommended for temps of -7C? Majority of the country you'd have to put your Summer tyres back on after 8am!!


Most mornings going to work for the past month, it has been below 7-8c, same going home.
You stick to what you like and i will have peace of mind that i am doing all i can to make my journeys with family or not, that little bit safer:thumb:
Driving style aint got a lot to do with it when a car pulls out in front of you and you cant stop in time on your big, low profile summer tyres.


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## k9vnd

Bill58 said:


> Phone them, that statement came from their underwriters!


I did total ****** and if it's not included in the sold policy i paid for then surely direct line are mis-selling policy's which in turn mean's it's been mis-sold to me as well as everyone else who's insured with them.

Total time waser bud.


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## The Cueball

spursfan said:


> Driving style aint got a lot to do with it when a car pulls out in front of you and you cant stop in time on your big, low profile summer tyres.


I can 100% guarantee that winter tyres won't stop the car from skidding if you need to hit the brakes hard...

I've been driving in this today, so please everyone, do not think winter tyres are a substitute for attentive driving....

p.s. had awesome fun today.... :driver::driver::driver: :lol:



















stay safe, gentle movements in all braking, steering and acceleration and do not think winter tyres are going to save you from being daft... 

:thumb:


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## ohms12

That's a given. No tyres can make up for a total lack of driver skill. BUT, they do greatly increase grip, turn in, significantly lower braking distances, reduce aquaplaning and increase traction on snow and ice. Surely that's a no brainer, right?

P.S: Cueball, what car were you driving all day...?


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## The Cueball

ohms12 said:


> That's a given. No tyres can make up for a total lack of driver skill. BUT, they do greatly increase grip, turn in, significantly lower braking distances, reduce aquaplaning and increase traction on snow and ice. Surely that's a no brainer, right?
> 
> P.S: Cueball, what car were you driving all day...?


no doubt they are better, but what I saw from others and what i experienced up here. (in proper snow and winter conditions) is you still get all those issues, they are just slightly decreased, when you have zero grip, you have zero grip... doesn't really matter what rubber you have!

I get the feeling some people on this forum, and not specifically this thread, think they are the miracle cure to driving in the winter and you can do what you want...and drive how you want... in fact I would go so far as saying it seems some people don't think you can do anything without them with the way they are banging on and hyping them up... jeez it's like a new detailing product from the fan boy company...  :lol:

it is of course possible that the stupid adverts of cars driving at high speed on frozen lakes, ice rinks, and slamming on brakes without skidding all play a part in this....:wall::wall:

as they say, every little helps... but they are still a poor second to driving for the conditions and being very sensible about what you are doing...and I still maintain we don't need them in the UK, nor is there a real point until everyone has them..... a smart, careful driver on 'summers' will outlive and idiot with 'winters'. (IMO of course, and I'm still not getting winter tyres for my car, as I don't need them in the UK) 

this trip I have a Volvo s60, auto with drive E... which I find odd doesn't work in low temperatures... surely Volvo would know that Sweden gets cold!?!?

Obviously there is a 'geeky' reason why saving the earth becomes irrelevant in minus 2 and below conditions though! :lol:

:thumb:


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## Guest

The Cueball said:


> no doubt they are better, but what I saw from others and what i experienced up here. (in proper snow and winter conditions) is you still get all those issues, they are just slightly decreased, when you have zero grip, you have zero grip... doesn't really matter what rubber you have!
> 
> I get the feeling some people on this forum, and not specifically this thread, think they are the miracle cure to driving in the winter and you can do what you want...and drive how you want... in fact I would go so far as saying it seems some people don't think you can do anything without them with the way they are banging on and hyping them up... jeez it's like a new detailing product from the fan boy company...  :lol:
> 
> it is of course possible that the stupid adverts of cars driving at high speed on frozen lakes, ice rinks, and slamming on brakes without skidding all play a part in this....:wall::wall:
> 
> as they say, every little helps... but they are still a poor second to driving for the conditions and being very sensible about what you are doing...and I still maintain we don't need them in the UK, nor is there a real point until everyone has them..... a smart, careful driver on 'summers' will outlive and idiot with 'winters'. (IMO of course, and I'm still not getting winter tyres for my car, as I don't need them in the UK)
> 
> this trip I have a Volvo s60, auto with drive E... which I find odd doesn't work in low temperatures... surely Volvo would know that Sweden gets cold!?!?
> 
> Obviously there is a 'geeky' reason why saving the earth becomes irrelevant in minus 2 and below conditions though! :lol:
> 
> :thumb:


I couldn't agree with this more. I can't afford to change tyres every 6 months or so, so I tend to try and learn when the snow and ice hits our roads. That said I remember last year I got questioned in a supermarket carpark by the local bill for letting my other half practice control in the snow. I said to him, well it's better to be confident and know how to react if the worse happened as a lot of people don't. Safe to say he left us to it. But this brings me down to the same subject as above - no matter what tyres are on your car, it's the drivers skill and confidence on snow that shows. I have one budget on drivers side and a Falken (that came with the car) on the passenger side and so far have been fine. Im not the best driver on the road, I just plan the road like my mate who's a coach driver. He knows his stuff and it's amazing how he even drives to me. It's all about the drivers attitude to driving in these hazardous conditions we're experiencing at the moment. Tyre choice will always be a hot topic and yes winter tyres are obviously better in winter but times are tough leading up to christmas, therefore knowledge and common sense pay for themselves. Literally :thumbup:


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## Bero

aaronfife said:


> I have one budget on drivers side and a Falken (that came with the car) on the passenger side


OMG!

Wait until the DW ritcious police hear about this! Do cars not go into autopilot and drive into bus stops of school children before spontaneously combusting when you do that?!?! :lol: :thumb:


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## Guest

Bero said:


> OMG!
> 
> Wait until the DW ritcious police hear about this! Do cars not go into autopilot and drive into bus stops of school children before spontaneously combusting when you do that?!?! :lol: :thumb:


Not quite sure what your trying to implement here so please do explain?


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## The Cueball

aaronfife said:


> Not quite sure what your trying to implement here so please do explain?


I think he is having a joke at some of the people on here and their "horror" at others using budget / different tyres....



Unless I got the joke wrong! :lol:

:thumb:


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## Bero

aaronfife said:


> Not quite sure what your trying to implement here so please do explain?


Just that we have very polar views on tyres on the forum.

Threads on generally degrade to with a group of people with very righteous/black and white views on what MUST be done and there is never another acceptable solution, budget tyres are treated as if they're the devils own products designed to wipe out the younger generation regardless if your running a 1950s fiat 500 or something more powerful. Mixed tyres and part worn are met with similar disdain. Winter tyres are the current topic with similar strong views where only one solution is acceptable without any grey areas.

*this is not targeted at anyone in particular just observation from various threads.


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## Guest

The Cueball said:


> I think he is having a joke at some of the people on here and their "horror" at others using budget / different tyres....
> 
> 
> 
> Unless I got the joke wrong! :lol:
> 
> :thumb:


I did think this as well lol.


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## Pezza4u

Dropping the tyre pressures to around 10-15psi is fine to get you out of trouble, the tyres will become softer allowing for better traction. But you need to remember it's only to get you out of the estate or up a hill etc. Don't drive for long with them that low, corner fast or do high speeds!!

In all the years I've been driving I only ever got stuck once up a hill that was a sheet of ice, car was going no where! I've had winter tyres since last year and the difference is night and day. I actually found an empty car park to test out the handling and braking with them on, I couldn't believe the difference. Although these will help with traction and braking it doesn't mean you can drive normally, I still use light and smooth changes for the steering, acceleration and braking.


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## spursfan

The Cueball said:


> I can 100% guarantee that winter tyres won't stop the car from skidding if you need to hit the brakes hard...
> 
> I've been driving in this today, so please everyone, do not think winter tyres are a substitute for attentive driving....
> 
> p.s. had awesome fun today.... :driver::driver::driver: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stay safe, gentle movements in all braking, steering and acceleration and do not think winter tyres are going to save you from being daft...
> 
> :thumb:


Cuey, I dont think i will argue on this, seems obvious you think they give no advantage, however small, over normal summer type tyres, despite countless videos etc proving that they are better equipped for winter.
However, i will agree with you that safe, steady driving will help, but this would be even better with winter tyres on:wave:

Kev


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## The Cueball

spursfan said:


> Cuey, I dont think i will argue on this, seems obvious you think they give no advantage, however small, over normal summer type tyres, despite countless videos etc proving that they are better equipped for winter.
> However, i will agree with you that safe, steady driving will help, but this would be even better with winter tyres on:wave:
> 
> Kev


who's arguing?!?!?!? :tumbleweed:

you're ignoring post #60 where I specifically say they are better, especially in the conditions pictured mind you...  

:lol::lol::lol:

:thumb:


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## moosh

Buy a quattro and forget about winter tyres, guy the hotter tyres get the higher the pressure at this time of year they don't heat up so much so don't expand. I run mine at 30psi and they are fine.


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## Hairy Pete

ohms12 said:


> If you look at my tyre tracks you can see I literally slid sideways into my parking spot. I've been putting it off the last few days and BAM! It snows. No warning or anything! Need to make it a few miles down the road to get my winters out of storage. Here's to hoping I make it. Haha.
> 
> P.S: If you're driving a RWD car and wondering if you should buy winters or not, I urge you to do it. You'll be passing 4WD cars for fun, honestly. The looks on Land Rover owners' faces is priceless when you whizz by them!
> 
> Yip my Beemer is great with the winters on. The only problem is it looks rubbish and I am always desperate to get the 19" 313s back on. So i try to do from mid December to end of February......caught out last 2 days:wall:


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