# Had full details,now have marks on paint ?



## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

*Had full detail,now have marks on paint ?*

Hi chaps...

Bit of help if possible.

Sent my car into a detailers for 3 day paint correction and scratch removal. Picked up on Sunday.

The scratches that where in the top coat have been removed and the paintwork is now ultrasmooth...

But the paintwork seems to have little mark all over the car. I have taken some iphone pics that are a bit crap at best... But could anyone identify what these marks maybe so i can return to the detailer with some knowledge of what im talking about ?

Here are the pics,the marks can only been seen when the light is at the correct angle... They are tiny but i hope someone can throw some light (sic) onto the problem.
I will just add that they wasnt there before,im not saying the car was free of swirls,but this is something that has been introduced in the process.Im fairly sure of that..


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## mrbloke (Oct 13, 2010)

Sorry mate, can't help you here, but if I sent my car in for 3 days of paint correction, that is not the finish I would be expecting.


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Me either..

Im asking to try ascertain whats caused it.

The machines used was a Rupes Bigfoot and a Flex...


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Slight holograms and marring? Hmm

Maybe they used a dry microfibre to remove the wax etc and left more marks than they removed?


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

I think its a marring of some kind..

Up close the lines are quite uniform,like there was something in the buffing/polishing pad.

Its hard to explain,and i guess only a pro detailer maybe able to tell me the actual cause.


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## JwilliamsM (Dec 20, 2011)

Kimo73 said:


> Slight holograms and marring? Hmm
> 
> Maybe they used a dry microfibre to remove the wax etc and left more marks than they removed?


Whats the best way to remove wax?


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

jayz_son said:


> Whats the best way to remove wax?


You should never use a completely dry microfibre on paint

Just a spritz of qd on the cloth will help lubricants and minimise the risk of marring

I'm not saying wet a cloths just very very slightly damp


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## JwilliamsM (Dec 20, 2011)

Kimo73 said:


> You should never use a completely dry microfibre on paint
> 
> Just a spritz of qd on the cloth will help lubricants and minimise the risk of marring
> 
> I'm not saying wet a cloths just very very slightly damp


nice one great tip


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

quick question how many times car been washed since the detail or are the pictures from how you got the car back cheers


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Car hasnt been washed at all...

Only picked up at 3pm Sunday,covered approx 15 miles..


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

alpinaman said:


> Car hasnt been washed at all...
> 
> Only picked up at 3pm Sunday,covered approx 15 miles..


Have you done anything to try and wipe it off?

It has been cold the last few night and there has been frost and condensate on my cars.

Sure it isn't just water marks from the cool nights?


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## The Pan Man (Apr 16, 2010)

I'd be on the way back to where it was done. No question about it, that's not good enough.


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

It's not easy to see from the pictures, but it looks to me like the finishing process wasn't "finished" properly. They look like marks from a DA (or Bigfoot) that remain on the paint if the polish hasn't broken down properly. A DA won't leave swirls, but it can leave marks like this >>










I don't want to step on your detailer's toes or anything, but I would take it back to have it finished correctly


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

^^^^^^^^^

Thats exactly what it looks like,but highlighted a lot better by yourself...


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Kerr said:


> Have you done anything to try and wipe it off?
> 
> It has been cold the last few night and there has been frost and condensate on my cars.
> 
> Sure it isn't just water marks from the cool nights?


No i havent touched the car..


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Wolf's Chemicals said:


> It's not easy to see from the pictures, but it looks to me like the finishing process wasn't "finished" properly. They look like marks from a DA (or Bigfoot) that remain on the paint if the polish hasn't broken down properly. A DA won't leave swirls, but it can leave marks like this >>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have spoken to him today and im running the car back to him aroun lunchtime..

I wanted to be armed with info so that i just didnt get fobbed off,.

I have never used this detailer before,i used to use steve at Mirror inish but i think he has now gne abroad.


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## danwel (Feb 18, 2007)

Hope you manage to get it sorted to your satisfaction


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Im visiting him this lunchtime,so will keep the thread upto date..


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## Rascal_69 (Sep 20, 2009)

Who was the detailer?

The said detailer shouldn't really be charging pro services if they can't break down a polish. Also not checking there work. 

Have they even panel wiped it to remove oils. If not I would love to see the finish after a wipe down 

If so the car shouldn't have left with said marks as they would've been clearly visible under proper lighting


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

alpinaman said:


> I have spoken to him today and im running the car back to him aroun lunchtime..
> 
> I wanted to be armed with info so that i just didnt get fobbed off,.
> 
> I have never used this detailer before,i used to use steve at Mirror inish but i think he has now gne abroad.


Yep then that's exactly what's happened... wasn't finished down properly :thumb: A lot of people use a DA and they're comfortable with the idea that it won't burn paint, induce swirls, etc. but the truth is that using a DA can leave a finish just as bad as a rotary can if one doesn't take the time to get to know the machine and polish combo. Honestly I never did like working with a DA, but I've been getting very good results with my Rupes Bigfoot and despite being in the detailing business for over 24 years, I still have to practice with it


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## cossiecol (Jun 29, 2014)

Any update on this? I'd be keen to understand what they say happened.


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

Jess is right with it not being touched since the detailer did it I am guessing some evaporation has happened and the car has not been finished down correctly.

Without sounding rude there are now a lot of people calling them self detailers with not enough experience in machine polishing before anyone uses a detailer review there work look at there pictures if they have nice close up swirl shots then lots of angle shots on the after pictures then there is a chance they are hiding things you can always tell a good detailer with the way pictures are taken the same few detailers who have been around a good while now will make the effort for write ups on DW with same shots same angle in before and afters using a variety of lighting sources as using just one things can be missed.


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Hi chaps, 

Just been back to the detailers and he was very apologetic and was quite shame faced.
I pointed out what I could see and he came to the same conclusion as wolf chemicals.
He thinks the medium pad had been a little to hot and worked the polish to aggressively . Then when he had finessed the paint, the light marring had not been removed.
He has agreed to do the whole car again for free using a slightly different technique,he thought that it maybe his ( self admitted) lack of experience with the rupes may have caused the problem. 

He is taking the car again over next weekend and he assures me it will be 100% correct or will refund my money.

I feel that he can't do anymore that what he is offering, so will see how things turn out.. 

Just to say, this is no fly by night detailer, he is middle aged and been in the bodywork industry for 30yrs+ and has had the detailing business 5 years.

He had in his workshop Italian supercars and a couple of trumpy Audi's to be worked on.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

alpinaman said:


> Hi chaps,
> 
> Just been back to the detailers and he was very apologetic and was quite shame faced.
> I pointed out what I could see and he came to the same conclusion as wolf chemicals.
> ...


God help the supercars tbh

If you're not confident with a machine you shouldn't be taking it to paint tbh

Terrible


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

I was talking to a guy at work who claimed to have been doing it for 30 years. 

But times change and standards change, what he thinks is acceptable now is really low quality in my opinion. 

Not saying this is the case for your guy, just giving my opinion on "old timers" who feel they are still at the top of their game.


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Oh I totally agree... He was pretty shocked at what he saw, and was apologising and spluttering! Ha ha..

He did say that he had never seen the effect on my car caused by the Rupes, he has had it 7 months and uses it daily.. But he assumes that was the cause, funnily enough where he had used a rotary on the roof panel, there was zero marks..


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## Kevlar (Nov 12, 2006)

I had similar on my car I just did, as its my car its my problem! - I would not be impressed if I had paid for 3 day correction to be greeted with that - pretty poor if he actually then tells you its down to his tools and technique...whats the old saying ' A bad workman always blames his tools!'

I am just a weekend warrior, just moved to rupes and using scholl s17+ and s40 which is superb, but not had much experience with either and yes all very different to use then my flex 3401 and other polish I used to use.

The rupes pads are a different ball game to which after several days I was starting to get a feel for.

Fair play if hes offered to do it again and maybe get your money back, but Iwould be concerened how much clearcoat he is removing!


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## Clueless.1 (Jul 30, 2014)

Kimo73 said:


> You should never use a completely dry microfibre on paint
> 
> Just a spritz of qd on the cloth will help lubricants and minimise the risk of marring
> 
> I'm not saying wet a cloths just very very slightly damp


Well you learn something new every day don't you? Didn't know this :-D


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Yea I understand your point of view..

But what can I do? 

I'm in a position and I'm doing my best to sort it. The detailer is offering to sort it,which of course he should.
I thought he was being honest and open in his explanation, and pretty much condirmed what everyone thought..
If he had tried to bull**** me in any way I would really be quite insulted.

The car has never had paintwork in its life, and has never had paint correction so I think it has plenty of clearcoat..


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

You legally have to give him a chance to fix his work first. 

My concern is he didn't see it or look for it before he gave you the car back. 

You could see it and picutre it, he should have seen it before the car was released.


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

alpinaman said:


> Hi chaps,
> 
> Just been back to the detailers and he was very apologetic and was quite shame faced.
> I pointed out what I could see and he came to the same conclusion as wolf chemicals.
> ...


Glad you got it sorted with him  No shame in him admitting that he didn't finish it down properly... as "easy" as the Rupes is to use, it's not "easy" to finish perfectly with it :thumb: By the way, what kind of car is that?


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

Lots of robots on here that seem to of never made a mistake!

Mistakes happen and no matter who you are or how good you are anybody can make a mistake! We are humans not robots and the guy has been man enough to admit he has made a mistake. Good on him I say!


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

too many me thinks.


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Just for you Mr Wolf..


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

The Doctor said:


> Lots of robots on here that seem to of never made a mistake!
> 
> Mistakes happen and no matter who you are or how good you are anybody can make a mistake! We are humans not robots and the guy has been man enough to admit he has made a mistake. Good on him I say!


Would you not have expected a professional to notice these marks?

People do make mistakes without a doubt, however too many issues I've seen in many professions are little to do with making mistakes.

It's more a lack of quality control or lack of care.

If OP can spot these marks in open light, why hasn't a professional with the correct equipment not noticed them during correction or inspection?


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## Raj24v (Aug 24, 2014)

Lovely Z4M. Is that the finish after being rectified? Looks great.


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## Jesse74 (Jul 19, 2008)

alpinaman said:


> Just for you Mr Wolf..


Nice! Yep just as I suspected, that's rock-hard ceramic BMW paint! He'll need to use a polishing pad and a medium polish with a good amount of pressure in the beginning to get the haze out :buffer:


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Thanks wolf... Great info

Raj.. That was taken a while ago..


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

Kerr said:


> Would you not have expected a professional to notice these marks?
> 
> People do make mistakes without a doubt, however too many issues I've seen in many professions are little to do with making mistakes.
> 
> ...


Mabey its down to the op's error?...

Why didn't the op research who was going to be doing the work?

Agree with @kerr as quality go as - Huge factor here is difference in valeters and detailer's nomatter the years of experience.

Glad this has been resolved but would advise if spending big bucks on a 3 stage then doing some homework on a reputable detailer will reap rewards next time.


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

???

How much research can you do ? 

You look at his website, you see the huge array of supercars and classics that are worth millions collectively in the gallery and hope you get a great level of service.

I have had cars detailed before by various high end detailers and if I'm honest I could always pick fault.. I do realise I'm critical and more than a little OCD when it comes to paintwork, the marks I photographed are completely invisible unles direct sunlight or a sun gun is used.. Yes, they shouldn't be there at all, but although I am critical I'm not pig headed enough to realise that people don't make mistakes, the handling of the complaint now it has arisen is just as important.


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

I dnt know you personally enough to realise that, but it was a failure to notify that reserch was done, but if you find jumping onto what you take as critisism then trod along.


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

???

I just can't fathom what your trying to say??

Are you trying to imply that somehow this is my fault ?


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## Knuckles (Sep 29, 2012)

Very big of the guy to own up and accept it was his mistake.

Also very nice of him to offer the full refund if it's not perfect.

Lol at it being ops fault.

Shame on you op


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## Dingo2002 (Apr 4, 2007)

So many keyboard warriors on here quick to highlight what "should" have been done. I doubt they ever make mistakes. 
OP came on to ask what the marks he was seeing were took that info and confronted the detailer in question who subsequently offered to rectify the issue and also offered a full refund if he was unable to. No one "suddenly" becomes a perfect detailer and in fact any of you who say you that you are perfect are only kidding yourselves. As stated by the OP the guy has had the detailing business for 5 years and in that time has almost certainly not covered every paint/pad/polish/machine combination.
Granted the detailer should have noticed the issues before releasing the car but that's his only failing. How many of you have given a car back to a client knowing full well you could have done a little more? 

Given the OPs experience I certainly wouldn't have an issue going to the detailer in question and having work done.


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## stumpy90 (May 13, 2014)

Ive never yet met anyone that has never made a mistake. I think the real measure of a bussiness is how they deal with these things and in this case.... top marks to the guy.


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## waqasr (Oct 22, 2011)

As previously said, good on the bloke for being an honest guy and not trying to fob you off as many would do in this day and age. 

Honesty counts for alot and im glad hes offered to fix that for free and if not give you a full refund. To be honest theres not much more you could ask for. Yes its an inconvenience but as human being we do make mistakes, at least hes not burnt through your paint or anything major like that. 

You dont know if the guys been working 20 hr days and maybe his health isnt all there, maybe issues at home and stress etc etc, perhaps he overlooked it. Give the guy a chance.


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## Tricky Red (Mar 3, 2007)

I don't understand the mentality of some on here sometimes to be honest. The OP trusted someone that he researched and was satisfied to hand over his car to.

The OP is on here, so he is hardly likely to just give over to some Tom, Dick or Harry. 

The detailer made a mistake. It happens. He was embarrassed and has offered to fix it. The OP is happy with the solution. 

We ALL make mistakes, things happen. It's how you resolve differences that tests someone's character. 

I can't see that the OP has done anything wrong here.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Dingo2002 said:


> So many keyboard warriors on here quick to highlight what "should" have been done. I doubt they ever make mistakes.
> OP came on to ask what the marks he was seeing were took that info and confronted the detailer in question who subsequently offered to rectify the issue and also offered a full refund if he was unable to. No one "suddenly" becomes a perfect detailer and in fact any of you who say you that you are perfect are only kidding yourselves. As stated by the OP the guy has had the detailing business for 5 years and in that time has almost certainly not covered every paint/pad/polish/machine combination.
> Granted the detailer should have noticed the issues before releasing the car but that's his only failing. How many of you have given a car back to a client knowing full well you could have done a little more?
> 
> Given the OPs experience I certainly wouldn't have an issue going to the detailer in question and having work done.


Do you know the detailer in person that is being discussed? You seem a little defensive to me.

Firstly this is an internet forum which has differing opinions on everything.

Does that mean everyone is a "keyboard warrior" when they don't agree? That would kind of kill the need for having a discussion forum.

Given that nobody has actually said anything bad at all, I think the keyboard warrior comments are rather uncalled for.

I've been on this forum for a few years now and you can usually guess how every thread will go. This one for some reason is a bit different.

If a car salesman leaves a few swirls or buffer trails on a car, the scenario is greeted with choruses of "that is shocking" comments.

I'm struggling with the logic that a little car garage is expected to sell cars and make them perfect, or suffer unanimous ridicule. Hence why people often tell dealers not to prepare the car any further than they already have.

However when a professional who is supposed to be a specialist in the field of car detailing fails to do a satisfactory job, that's ok, mistakes happen. That logic isn't working for me.

People choose to pay professionals what are large premiums over a basic services to have a proper job done. You expect things to be done to a far higher standard.

I fully understand that mistakes happen. However you pay good money to professionals so that you don't have to suffer with mistakes.

The guy had the job of correcting the paint and as far as I'm concerned before releasing the car back to the customer, the car should have been inspected to a professional level.

He was correcting the paint and should have corrected the paint. When do you draw the line between a simple mistake, or what might come across as he didn't know what he was doing, or has just churned out a lazy job?

Let's be fair we often hear how a car has marks and they are difficult to see. The OP managed to see the marks by eye and also managed to take photos to show how obvious they were.

It looks to me as if they should have been very easily detected by a professional as they were detected by an amateur and easy for everyone else to see without any trouble.

People are now suggesting it is great that he has agreed to fix it, that's the very least that he should offer to do. There is nothing good about that offer at all.

It's a pain in the backside when you have to take something back to have the work done again. It's the customer who is inconvenienced.

I'm not sure why up to this point you feel you would use this detailer on the basis of this service. So far he hasn't done a good job and hasn't repaired it either.

I'm left guessing here that the people who are defensive as they are a bit friendly with the detailer involved.


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

Kerr said:


> People are now suggesting it is great that he has agreed to fix it, that's the very least that he should offer to do. There is nothing good about that offer at all.


I hear you Kerr, you speak a lot of sense fella, you're dead right about the 'premium pricing' of a professional detail.

But you note there's nothing good about the offer to rectify it. 
At least he didn't say to the OP, **** off you must have washed it or bullocks like that.

It's an inconvenience, but he's getting it sorted and sounds content with the resolution.

Lets see what the second round of results look like shall we? :thumb:


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Kerr....

To some extent i agree with what your saying,how couldnt i ?

I am now in a situation and im trying to make the best of it,and at the moment i have to let the detailer try and rectify what he has failed to do.


Just to point out something though.I havent mentioned who the detailer is,his business name or location so im not sure how you can say that people who post on here may know him/them personally ??


That said,my car returns next week to be rectified. 

Since my initial post earlier this week i have now noticed a few more marks that havent been rectified,so thats another issue i will take up with him.

This is the last time it will go there,upon ispection if im not happy i will ask for a full/partial refund and i will find an alternative detailer to finish the job.I have an LED torch that when shone on the body shows the scratches up in all their glory,so this will be in my pocket when i pick the car up..


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

There not scratches there cob webs by the looks of it. Swirl marks are swirl marks and cob webs are almost removed swirls. Said Detailer did not remove enough clear to knock out the cob webs. Epic fail really. And three days work on a BMW I would have wet sanded it to remove the orange peel as well. But what was the price? I charge $60 an hour for my work and average bill is $1600. For a 3 day detail leaving cob webs he must have spent most if the time reading the paper.


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Hi..Have you always been in the USA ?

Didnt you do my imola red 5 series around 5 years ago??....lol.....

I think you had a Volvo estate??

Was this your work ??


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Yes I remember it. But it was only a days enhancement detail not a full correction. Was only a one day enhancement not a full detail.


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Yep,thats correct..

Man that was a while ago....lol.....It took me a while to find the pictures you sent to me...


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

I remember that car. Was just an enhancement detail. The Volvo died on the M6 when a foreign truck side swiped it.


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

On the way home ????


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

So after getting the back up and defending the "said" detailer that does the supercar's it turns out even yourself might not return?....
Next time a little more research could be an advantage and see past whats lying on the forecourt,end of day that's there car not yours that's going to be worked on.
Shame if it cant be corrected to your standards but now youll know not to return, and shame not telling who the mystery person is as some here may be delighted with his work where as some could be in the same situation, that way the said detailer will know which section he should be researching on here to obtain a better finish


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

What on earth are you babbling on about now?? You seem to have some kind of Joy in the fact that someone who you dont even know is in a bit of a situation. 

I think that says a lot more about you than me...



I wont return after my car is corrected as i have now found another detailer who will get my business in the future.

I only ask to get the work done i have paid for,if that creates some kind of weird amusement for you i suggest that broaden your horizons a little..


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## jenks (Apr 20, 2009)

Seems at the minute some people only come on here to have an argument


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Sign of the times Jenks im afraid...


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## jenks (Apr 20, 2009)

When is your car going back?


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Friday afternoon...

To be picked up Saturday PM..


I have to use to go to a Sprint in the Midlands on the Sunday


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

How much research can someone do without actually going and watching someone work on a car first? Remember all those full correction shots we used to see on here where black hole was a popular product 

Hope the paint gets sorted Alpinaman :thumb:



jenks said:


> Seems at the minute some people only come on here to have an argument


What a ridiculous thing to say. A forum where some people only want to witch hunt/criticise other people...... :lol:


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

Theres a huge difference in my books from knowing someone and picking someone from a web site, so agree your research was well conducted.

Again already stated post #41, which you and others haven't understood.


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## Dingo2002 (Apr 4, 2007)

Kerr said:


> Do you know the detailer in person that is being discussed? You seem a little defensive to me.
> 
> Firstly this is an internet forum which has differing opinions on everything.
> 
> ...


LOL, no I don't know the detailer in personally or even impersonally for that matter.

No, differing opinions are what drive internet forums, they are needed. My point was that a lot of posters seemed to make out that as the Detailer in question had made a mistake then he should be hung drawn and quartered without trial or representation and without the ability to rectify his mistake.

I've been here since 2007 and this thread doesn't seem all that different to be honest. The only difference really is that the detailer in question has offered to resolve the issues he failed to rectify in the first instance or will offer a full refund.

I don't think dealers are expected to sell cars perfect. I've never got that impression on here. As detailers we are the "odd" ones. the ones that stand out as OCD and expecting too much. Only on the top Marques do we expect a better level of detail when it comes to paint and overall cleanliness due to the premium prices paid.

Im not saying that the detailer in question shouldn't have released the car having checked it properly. He made a mistake, and a big one at that. But he has offered to attempt to fix those mistakes which was the right thing to do. As stated by the OP he has since noticed a few more marks which further call into question the detailers attention to detail (excuse the pun) and as such perhaps the guy/girl in question needs to look at their workload / techniques. The finish handed back to the OP wasn't acceptable, no one has argued that it was perhaps he could throw in a free "top up" service as a token gesture but at this stage if you were the OP wouldn't you just feel insulted by that? No he's offered a refund if he can't fix the issue knowing full well he would have lost a customer.

I stated that I would still be tempted to use the detailer again based on the way he has handled the complaint. He "could" have told the guy that those marks were "wax smear" or that "that's how red is supposed to look" both statements I've heard before (correct or not) but he held his hands up and admitted his fault. As someone else said, everyone makes mistakes it's how you go about fixing them that sets you aside from others.


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Ok chaps.... Update time.


Had the car back to the detailer,went in Friday lunchtime and came out Saturday at 5pm.


Car is heck of a lot better... 

Is it swirl free?...........No
Cobweb free?.............No
Buffer trail free...........No


The car is is now 85%(ish) how i would have liked it be be in the first place...

I think i have had my moneys worth now,albeit the car isnt how i want it. Perhaps i am expecting too much. Some how i dont think so.
Upon picking up the car i could see it was vastly improved and that i was glad to see,the car looked great under the lamps in the unit..
BUT i think what there downfall may be is that they have no lamps at head height to see the sides of the car,just overhead..I think this can mask what your actually seeing to an extent.


So...

Im going to see well respected detailer at the weekend to have an honest opinion given.

I will see what he says,and go from there.


Given my experience i wouldnt use the detailer again.Its inconvenient to have to leave the car for a second time,and seeing that im still not happy after my second visit i would be daft to recommend the company...


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## 123HJMS (Mar 13, 2013)

alpinaman said:


> Ok chaps.... Update time.
> 
> Had the car back to the detailer,went in Friday lunchtime and came out Saturday at 5pm.
> 
> ...


Let us all know the detailers name so anyone considering them gets an honest customer review, too many people are happy to recommend someone but won't name someone when their work is not quite up to 'scratch'


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## cleancar (Sep 21, 2006)

not read every page of this but - 

any pro detailer worth his salt would have a set of halogens or sun gun or equivalent to view the state of paint as you are working around it 

did you pay for an 'enhancement' detail or full correction ?


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

I dont think at the moment there is any point in "naming and shaming"...


I paid for and i quote off his site "this rare Z4M was sent to us for full body scratch removal and paint correction"..


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

I think the important thing to say here is that from what I gather it was not any of the forum sponsors on this site that did the work.


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## cleancar (Sep 21, 2006)

alpinaman said:


> I dont think at the moment there is any point in "naming and shaming"...
> 
> I paid for and i quote off his site "this rare Z4M was sent to us for full body scratch removal and paint correction"..


I know who it is now !!


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## STUOOBY (Dec 26, 2012)

tbh. looking on his site theres one picture of what looks like inside a porsche 911. would have me worried if that was my car. not that im a detailer. just never seen that done.


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

85% corrected with a full refund will enable someone more competent and reliable to do the work, so bar wasting your time and being too googlie eyed over the supercars your a little further forward.


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## Frothey (Apr 30, 2007)

Doesn't it just highlight that most people just want a shiny car, and if you've got the right market and lots of sexy cars on your website you can charge what you want because most people don't know any different? Well, not until one of 'us' comes along.....


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

Frothey said:


> Doesn't it just highlight that most people just want a shiny car, and if you've got the right market and lots of sexy cars on your website you can charge what you want because most people don't know any different? Well, not until one of 'us' comes along.....


Difference is "us" tend to do it ourselves as we all probably have a huge array of personal standards, 9/10 if we all went to the "pros" I guarantee there would be something amiss our expectation's.


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## dcj (Apr 17, 2009)

It couldn't be that this detailer has had an off day (or 2) could it now. Don't think its fair to name and shame him (as has already been done) when he isn't given the opportunity to explain his "mistakes." Pretty sure(no,positive)that had this been a supporter,this thread wouldn't exist now.


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

k9vnd said:


> 85% corrected with a full refund will enable someone more competent and reliable to do the work, so bar wasting your time and being too googlie eyed over the supercars your a little further forward.


You are such a dick...


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Frothey said:


> Doesn't it just highlight that most people just want a shiny car, and if you've got the right market and lots of sexy cars on your website you can charge what you want because most people don't know any different? Well, not until one of 'us' comes along.....


I think you have hit the nail on the head there....


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## Choppy (Aug 8, 2013)

STUOOBY said:


> tbh. looking on his site theres one picture of what looks like inside a porsche 911. would have me worried if that was my car. not that im a detailer. just never seen that done.


i was just looking at that, looks odd to me too


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## Rascal_69 (Sep 20, 2009)

It should be swirl free, buffer mark free for sure. 

Rds might remain is acceptable but buffer marks and swirls isn't really imo


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## Leebo310 (Sep 30, 2013)

Rascal_69 said:


> It should be swirl free, buffer mark free for sure.
> 
> Rds might remain is acceptable but buffer marks and swirls isn't really imo


This would be my opinion too. 
First time may have been a mistake, but buffer marks and swirls still there after a second time is very poor if you ask me.

Out of interest, what sort of job did they do on the scratches as per their description mate? "full body scratch removal"


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Never good when things don't go according to plan but stepping back for a second…

How bad was this vehicle prior to anything being done?
How much ( if your happy airing ) did this cost and what exactly was done for the said costing?
How long did this detail take?
Is the service provider actually a detailing outfit or is this an add on to paintshop services etc?

Its easy to say it could look better but many factors have to be considered such as paint thickness prior to correction, Severity of defects and was there any forms of potential shoddy paintwork.


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## Clarkey-88 (Apr 29, 2014)

Kimo73 said:


> You should never use a completely dry microfibre on paint
> 
> Just a spritz of qd on the cloth will help lubricants and minimise the risk of marring
> 
> I'm not saying wet a cloths just very very slightly damp


I never knew that, will be giving this a try next time as sometimes in direct sunlight, you can see where I have been wiping, it drives me mad!

Thanks for that :thumb:


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Just to answer a few questions....

The scratches that i wanted out of the car (rear bumper,taigate and front wing) where removed over the 2 visits... They did a good job in that aspect.
The scratches where too deep for me to get out with my Das Pro,especially with the paint being as hard as it is.

Beau technique..

The vehicle was in nice condition prior to me taking it.Better than average for year i would suggest. I was just at a point where i wanted the paintwork to be the "best it could be"..

Costing.... I paid what was asked. I approached the detailer and they quoted me a price. The price was for scratch removal and paint correction.

The initial detail... Went in Friday at 1pm,i picked up on the Sunday at 4pm.
Second time...It went in at 1pm Friday and i picked up 5.00pm Saturday.

The company is a detailing outfit and advertises as so..

Previous paint... The car has NEVER had any previous paintwork,its totally original.Car was kept washed and polished,no previous accidents.

To summarise i think that all the hard work has now been done,the paintwork now just wants "finishing". I do realise im picky,but i think the general consensus is that i shouldnt be seeing the marks that i am doing.

I took these today... They are taken with an iphone,so poor quality but im sure people will get the idea..


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## ted11 (Jul 8, 2011)

I am surprised that any professional detailer would let you take the car away in that condition, with the hardest work done a bit more refining would have made the difference.


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Agreed Ted....


Can i just add that these marks where NOT on the car previously,they have been introduced,im not saying the car was blemish free but the marks are all over the car when inspected closely.


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## Deanoecosse (Mar 15, 2007)

"Simply putting _"this rare Z4M was sent to us for full body scratch removal and paint correction"_ into Google throws up who the guilty "detailer" is. For a car to have been in twice to said detailer and still be showing buffer trails and cobwebbing, shows that he is no "pro" detailer. Any good weekend warrior would leave a better finish than that. As for the 911 interior job on his Facebook page WTF is he on???


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## nichol4s (Jun 16, 2012)

Deanoecosse said:


> "Simply putting _"this rare Z4M was sent to us for full body scratch removal and paint correction"_ into Google throws up who the guilty "detailer" is. For a car to have been in twice to said detailer and still be showing buffer trails and cobwebbing, shows that he is no "pro" detailer. Any good weekend warrior would leave a better finish than that. As for the 911 interior job on his Facebook page WTF is he on???


I liked the Alfa video I take it the right hand side he just finished :lol: should be called J****N FU


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

Deanoecosse said:


> "Simply putting _"this rare Z4M was sent to us for full body scratch removal and paint correction"_ into Google throws up who the guilty "detailer" is. For a car to have been in twice to said detailer and still be showing buffer trails and cobwebbing, shows that he is no "pro" detailer. Any good weekend warrior would leave a better finish than that. As for the 911 interior job on his Facebook page WTF is he on???


Can only find this thread when I search google, and I'm trying to see this 911 too that people are going on about.
PM me linky to said detailer :thumb:


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2014)

You learn something new everyday, interior snow foaming


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

I have just googled it myself and it becomes easy to find.

My idea wasn't to "out' the detailer... If so I would have said there name from the start of the thread..
I guess the cats out of the bag now so to speak..

I suppose that they are just not as good as they think they are, or pictures suggest( or not)..

One to avoid in the future, and an expensive lesson learned on my part.


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Just to finish off this thread....

Gladly i have found myself a great detailer that is a site sponser... Over our brief chats i have learnt more than i ever have about detailing,so the car will be going to him at weekend to assess the paintwork..

Here are a few last pics for you guys to see how our least favourite "detailer left my car after its second visit.

Front wing....Note marks in lighting reflection..



Rear bumper...All over haziness,looks like 2000 grade sandpaper used and not buffed back



And my piece de resistance..

Rear tailgate and bumper..God knows whats happened here...



I repeat... None of these marks where on the car originally.


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## Dingo2002 (Apr 4, 2007)

Cor I'll retract my previous statements about using the guy. The first marks you showed us could have been mistakes but those are simply poor work.


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Well he had a chance to correct the problems..

But you have to draw to some kind of conclusion when this is the best that can be done after having my car for 4 days in total..


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## cleancar (Sep 21, 2006)

Did you have any paint thickness readings before it went to first detailer ? would have been interesting to see how many um's were knocked off as part of the detail

Hopefully there is still plenty of clearcoat to play with


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Yep...

Hopefully so...

Given that any marks on the car where superficial and only in the top coat i hope that hardly anything has been taken off..



I did have depth readings beforehand,not afterwards...

I had a little play with my Das pro,hard pad and some megs ultimate compound and it has easily corrected where i have tried... 

I just think that he either couldnt be arsed finishing it properly or couldnt see what he was missing..


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

Wow, the rear bumper looks a mess. 

Almost like he forgot to finish it??


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## Blackroc (Dec 10, 2012)

Sicskate said:


> Wow, the rear bumper looks a mess.
> 
> Almost like he forgot to finish it??


Finish it?

Doesn't look like he started it let alone finish it!!


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Dont for 1 minute think that the back bumper was like that beforehand...


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Didnt know stevie wonder was now machining motors ( he was crap at singing as well though )


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Wow...

Just came across an old thread of mine.... 

Said detailer has had a name change since. 

Hope he has improved over the last 3 years....lol....


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## JamesRS5 (Oct 8, 2014)

Very interesting read, thanks for resurrecting.


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## alpinaman (Oct 9, 2008)

Yea,I read through it all again last night...Incredible that was how bad the car turned out.

Im just glad i have found a superb detailer now.

My Mercedes C63 is due in next week.

Cant wait!


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## Mak17 (Oct 30, 2018)

*Detailer*

Which detailer did you use in the end?


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

alpinaman said:


> Wow...
> 
> Just came across an old thread of mine....
> 
> ...


Interesting choice of name.

They can't have used this website for coming up with that.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

alpinaman said:


> Wow...
> 
> Just came across an old thread of mine....
> 
> ...


Well I would hope to god he has improved on his detailing skills :doublesho because that was shocking :lol:

Interesting read though and past an hour or so:thumb:


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