# Best wax for under £100



## HarryCCC (Nov 20, 2012)

As the title says im looking for a new wax for under £100.
Its for sapphire black paint and ideally its needs to have good durability.
Thanks Harry


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## aetolofitis (Jun 8, 2011)

Raceglaze 55...


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## IndepthCarDetailing (Feb 12, 2012)

Howdy Autosmart Wax or Zymol Glasur, you can pick up Glasur on here for sale


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## HarryCCC (Nov 20, 2012)

sedetailing said:


> Howdy Autosmart Wax or Zymol Glasur, you can pick up Glasur on here for sale


Glasur does look tempting!


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## IndepthCarDetailing (Feb 12, 2012)

*zymol*



HarryCCC said:


> Glasur does look tempting!


you can get it second hand on here for about 45


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## Yellow Dave (Apr 5, 2011)

Glasur isn't worth the full new asking price imo, if you're after a pot look for it 2nd hand.


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## RedUntilDead (Feb 10, 2009)

aetolofitis said:


> Raceglaze 55...


I have saphire black which I use 55 on (because I have a pot). I love the stuff to bits but its levels of protection and durability are not up to much IMO.

To be honest, I am done with expensive waxes so I will not post a recommendation.

Heres waiting for all the fan boys to reply, dodo, bouncers ..... yawn

PS read junkman's excellent tutorial and his opinion on waxes/sealants.


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## IndepthCarDetailing (Feb 12, 2012)

£45 bucks second hand , on the for sale section


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## IndepthCarDetailing (Feb 12, 2012)

i really like junkman's vids


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Autosmarts WAX on saphire black will look like its wrapped in cling film its that wet


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## WashMitt (May 27, 2010)

Fk1000 great durability, and if your paintwork is in good nick, will look as good as most waxes, black doesn't need alot tbh


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Victoria Concours £20,last you for years


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Naviwax Dark or Ultimate are brilliant. Zymol Glasur is impressive too. Victoria Wax Concours is still my favourite in the under £100 though.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Glasur is very good.


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

I think the middle price range waxes are much better than the cheaper ones just for ease of use if anything. I'm still to try something over 50 quid though!


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## moono16v (Oct 12, 2010)

Zymol glasur is a great wax. However so too is FK1000p it's a stunning sealant that will last forever and can be used on metal too. It's brilliant as a winter protection layer! Also works wonders on wheels...


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

loads of wax's already mentioned above which i like and have i'm going to throw a curve ball and say dodo juice rainforest rub


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## HarryCCC (Nov 20, 2012)

Making a choice from this is going to be difficult...


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## AndyA4TDI (May 7, 2012)

Satsuma Rock or Vics Red would be my choices.


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

I'd suggest you go for Victoria Concours, or buy my Mirage


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## terryvtr (Mar 27, 2011)

Naviwax Ultimate bloody awesome, pick up a sample pot to try.


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## Yellow Dave (Apr 5, 2011)

Guitarjon said:


> I think the middle price range waxes are much better than the cheaper ones just for ease of use if anything. I'm still to try something over 50 quid though!


I very much agree with the above, this price bracket is filled with great waxes that are nice to use and give good decent durability.

You''ll also find top end waxes 2nd hand in this range, for example my Spirit and Glasur for £50 / £60 which I wish I had done instead of paying full price for them


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## TopSport+ (Jul 22, 2012)

Ross said:


> Glasur is very good.


+2:thumb:


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

MidlandsCarCare said:


> I'd suggest you go for Victoria Concours, or buy my Mirage


How much for Mirage Russ??


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## khurum6392 (Oct 11, 2012)

swissvax onyx


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

My choices would be AF's Spirit, Z Glasur or Definitives Durus, all very good products worthy of their price tags and reputations


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## Adam_ (Apr 9, 2012)

Autoglym HD wax - not found one to beat it yet - only £45!

Good prep is the basis to a good finish, wax is mearly the icing on the cake


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## sitalchauhan (Mar 10, 2012)

Although I have never personally tried it, I would say Victoria Concours. It gets very good reviews on these forums and is the next wax on my to buy list once the weather starts improving.


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## pappamario (Aug 26, 2012)

I think Megs No16 professional paste wax is really good value for money, anybody agree?


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

Mine's vauxhall saffire black, personally for a cheap budget wax i would say chemical guys pete's 53 at under £30 you will not be dissapointed especially for the price.
As already stated buy glasur second hand, after i bought it i was expecting a little more from all the hype.
Ive a few photo's scattered about on here so if u have a hunt you will see some result's.
Another worth would be dodo supernatural hybrid, and ive been currently using blackfire midnight sun which i think out the 3 wax's above provided a far superiour result.I do now tend toward's selant's but on the odd occasion have licked some midnight sun over it

I would say though although youv'e asked about a wax, if it's a high gloss liquid finish your looking from then i would think down the sealant route too before you make a final buy.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

How much is 'funny symbol' 100?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Adam_ said:


> Autoglym HD wax - not found one to beat it yet - only £45!
> 
> Good prep is the basis to a good finish, wax is mearly the icing on the cake


you can get it a lot cheaper than that mate if you shop around :thumb:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> How much is 'funny symbol' 100?


about $150 to you and I. :thumb:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

Good Lord, who on this site can tell me why you would pay that much for some wax and guarantee that it is actually worth that much? Funny symbol and 20 is about the max I spend!


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## bero1306 (Jan 24, 2011)

Fk1000p although its a sealant but for a true wax i would go Blackfire MS.


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

I'd buy Megs 16 and spend the £85+ change on something more important.


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

Junkman2008 said:


> Good Lord, who on this site can tell me why you would pay that much for some wax and guarantee that it is actually worth that much? Funny symbol and 20 is about the max I spend!


:lol: you crack me up Junkman! 
Any recommendations from you that aren't in your vids?


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

I like Collinite waxes. Reasonably priced and perform very well. For me, there's absolutely no need to get carried away when it comes to wax. If you cannot definitively prove that an expensive wax can outperform a wax that cost 1/10th the price of the more expensive wax, then you are flushing you money down the drain. I have never had anyone look at my paint and say, "Wow, is that a 10 million dollar wax on your paint?"

If a sexy woman can't see the difference, it is of no interest to me. After all, who are we guys trying to impress with our shiny paint? Other guys or women? I know who I'm gunning for!


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Given your comments i guess you havn't used an "expensive" wax, if you had your opinion might change


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

msb said:


> Given your comments i guess you havn't used an "expensive" wax, if you had your opinion might change


And so wrong you are. I have had companies send me all kinds of waxes and sealants. Didn't cost me one dime. Given the performance that I have seen from everything that I have been sent (and that's a lot of products), I have yet to be impressed enough to spend hundreds of dollars to protect my paint when a $20 jar of Collinite does the job just fine.

If you could SHOW ME the theory or science behind why something that cost hundreds of dollars more is actually worth that much, I would be more than willing to listen. But to just take your word or a manufacturer's word that something is better because it cost more is just ludicrous. I can justify by using video or scientific proof (if not just straight up common sense), that anything that I do or do not do to paint is justified. If you can do the same, I'm all eyes and ears.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

I'm not knocking collinite if you just want your car protected and something that lasts great, but i can't seriously believe that you think it can compete in the looks stakes with other products because in my experience it simply can't, i can name quite a few products that don't cost alot if any more that look so much better
Going up to £100 budget set by the op there is so much choice and plenty of products that look way better and decent durability. As said not knocking colli's but if your going to make claims that its better in every way than other products you must be off your trolley!


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

And there's where you and I differ in opinion about waxes. Wax is a PROTECTANT. It is not for significantly altering the way a paint looks. That's what polishing does. But I did an entire thread and video about this so I won't rehash it here.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Junkman2008 said:


> And there's where you and I differ in opinion about waxes. Wax is a PROTECTANT. It is not for significantly altering the way a paint looks. That's what polishing does. But I did an entire thread and video about this so I won't rehash it here.


I'm not saying it significantly alters the look, but there are subtle differences between what lsp is applied, ultimatley polishing is the key to the best finish possible but what you choose to seal it with can and does change the finish you get, thats fact and most acknowleged with the difference between sealants and waxes but there are differences between different waxes also and to say there isn't imo is a bit narrow minded,but as usual opinons here vary:thumb:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

msb said:


> ... but there are differences between different waxes also and to say there isn't imo is a bit narrow minded,but as usual opinons here vary:thumb:


No one said there are no differences. What I said is *show me hundreds of dollars worth of difference.* If you can't make a video that shows that much difference, then it is not worth it to me. Again, who are you trying to impress? The guys or the gals? I love my car shiny but I love it more when it sparkles in the eyes of a pretty lady. :thumb:


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Junkman2008 said:


> No one said there are no differences. What I said is *show me hundreds of dollars worth of difference.* If you can't make a video that shows that much difference, then it is not worth it to me. Again, who are you trying to impress? The guys or the gals? I love my car shiny but I love it more when it sparkles in the eyes of a pretty lady. :thumb:


Who said hundreds to get something that looks betternot me thats for sure, yes i do like boutique waxes and no they probably don't represent as great a value for money as collis in some peoples eyes but if what you are saying is gospel we might as well wrap up detailing world and go home now, using different waxes is about the experience and enjoyment of which i do enjoy massively, its not to impress or wow anyone its just something i enjoy:wave:
The old expensive V's cheap wax has been argued over and over and is starting to get like a broken record tbh, at the end of the day you can buy cheap trainers but you don't you buy nike's, or you buy a bentley instead of a bmw, they all do essentially the same thing but it doesn't stop people spending out on the dearer choice anywayoh and i personally don't need a car to communicate with the opposite sex:thumb:


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## Yellow Dave (Apr 5, 2011)

On a 100% corrected paint then the difference between waxes is minimized, but the majority of cars aren't. A sample wax I tried recently actually went some way to filling and hiding swirls. I personally thought colli actually muted flake pop on my silver golf, still went through almost 3pots and still have the remainder in my collection. 

Some people want all out protection, and nothing else, so yes the extra money is waranted. My last wax purchase was all about ease of use and enjoyment, and after trying it is much easier and enjoyable than colli.

Colli has its place, but some users simply want a bit more than it can offer. I'm not saying you have to spend 10x its value though. A happy medium can always be found


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Good point about the collis muting capabilities, other halfs car looked terrible with collis on compared to Vics Hybrid
Both cheap, but i know which gets my preference


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

msb said:


> ... oh and i personally don't need a car to communicate with the opposite sex:thumb:


I don't either. But I'm not going to ask my women to walk with me to dinner. We're gonna arrive in style. 



Yellow Dave said:


> On a 100% corrected paint then the difference between waxes is minimized...


That's exactly what I'm saying. :thumb:


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Junkman2008 said:


> I don't either. But I'm not going to ask my women to walk with me to dinner. We're gonna arrive in style.


Lucky our local is round the corner and i don't have to risk my driving licence to go to dinner and have a beer


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

msb said:


> Lucky our local is round the corner and i don't have to risk my driving licence to go to dinner and have a beer


One beer puts you under the table? :lol:


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Junkman2008 said:


> One beer puts you under the table? :lol:


No but possibly over the Drink Drive limit, Driving for a living my license is kind of important, oh and walking means i can have as much as i like and not worry:lol:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

I'm going to suggest a smaller glass the next time you're out. :thumb:


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## CGRD (Jan 9, 2013)

My vote goes to R222 100% Wax,so simple to apply, easy off with amazing results. Some people will no doubt say it doesn't last as long as others, but you will get about 50 applications from one pot :thumb:


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Junkman2008 said:


> I'm going to suggest a smaller glass the next time you're out. :thumb:


Lol we have proper glasses here called pints me ode


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

An American giving a Brit crap about drinking? Those Collinite fumes have gone to someone's head me thinks.... :lol:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

-Raven- said:


> An American giving a Brit crap about drinking? Those Collinite fumes have gone to someone's head me thinks.... :lol:


:lol::lol::lol::thumb:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> An American giving a Brit crap about drinking? Those Collinite fumes have gone to someone's head me thinks.... :lol:


:lol:

I'm not much of a drinker so I can talk. However, I do put away my fair share of red meat. :thumb:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

^^That's made me hungry now looking at that


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## spence (Nov 24, 2011)

Luckily your taste in steak is better than your taste in wax


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

spence said:


> Luckily your taste in steak is better than your taste in wax


If you can prove to me that something is significantly better in the same price range, I'm all ears! :thumb:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> If you can prove to me that something is significantly better in the same price range, I'm all ears! :thumb:


depends on what your definition of better is


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

cheekymonkey said:


> depends on what your definition of better is


Exactly.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> :lol:
> 
> I'm not much of a drinker so I can talk. However, I do put away my fair share of red meat. :thumb:


What you really need to post is meat on the bone!!!

A big fat T Bone or Rib Eye on the bone steak!!! These poor suckers miss out on this privilege!!!


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> What you really need to post is meat on the bone!!!
> 
> A big fat T Bone or Rib Eye on the bone steak!!! These poor suckers miss out on this privilege!!!


I use to do T-bones but now I strictly stick to filets.


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## Z4-35i (Jun 12, 2012)

I think we've gone from best wax to best steak thread :lol:

My vote is for rib-eye.


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## alteclio (May 10, 2011)

Last week I use the most expenisve wax I've tried, costing in Spain around 140€, and I deffinately won't pay this amount for a wax. A medium priced wax (let's say 40€-60€) is good enough and, in my opinion, the price difference is not woth it. Everyone can spend their money as they like, but the difference in looks is too subtle to justify the price difference.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

alteclio said:


> Last week I use the most expenisve wax I've tried, costing in Spain around 140€, and I deffinately won't pay this amount for a wax. A medium priced wax (let's say 40€-60€) is good enough and, in my opinion, the price difference is not woth it. Everyone can spend their money as they like, but the difference in looks is too subtle to justify the price difference.


That was the exact same experience I had. Thank goodness I didn't have to pay for what I tried.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

-Raven- said:


> What you really need to post is meat on the bone!!!
> 
> A big fat T Bone or Rib Eye on the bone steak!!! These poor suckers miss out on this privilege!!!


I don't miss out homeboy..T.Bone is the only steak i eat brother..Aberdeen Angus fresh from Smithfield meat market london town.Scottish beef is the finest beef in the world. :doublesho


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## alteclio (May 10, 2011)

I just payed 30€ for a sample, so not a big waste of money. All waxes and sealants I own are between 20€ and 30€ aprox, and I don't see the car looking better now than with the other waxes.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

I agree with that.I've never seen any difference from expensive/cheap visually, apart from beading and sheeting and feel.But as for side by side tests i'm yet to meet anyone who can tell by LOOKING which is which.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> I agree with that.I've never seen any difference from expensive/cheap visually, apart from beading and sheeting and feel.But as for side by side tests i'm yet to meet anyone who can tell by LOOKING which is which.


Especially women, the target of my shiny paint.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> I don't miss out homeboy..T.Bone is the only steak i eat brother..Aberdeen Angus fresh from Smithfield meat market london town.Scottish beef is the finest beef in the world. :doublesho


yep, and most of those Angus cattle you're eating come from Australia! Just like we sell Waygu beef to Japan! 

It's like selling ice to Eskimos! :lol:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

Well if you all are going to keep bringing up beef, I'm posting another photo.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

-Raven- said:


> yep, and most of those Angus cattle you're eating come from Australia! Just like we sell Waygu beef to Japan!
> 
> It's like selling ice to Eskimos! :lol:


Hmmmm,some may.But it's originally from aberdeenshire and was imported to you guys lol,so it's still scottish beef, and still the best in the world


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

I'll never understand the Americans.
Pepsi with steak wtf? Get a proper drink :lol:


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

This thread's taken an interesting turn, a couple of pages of suggestions for the OP followed by the old Collinite vs the world 

I remember a thread on here years ago on a few black Corsas. I can't remember the intricate details, but I know they were prepared the same, and then Collinite 915 and Zymol Royale amongst others were used as LSPs. 

Some people who didn't know which was which LSP were then asked what they preferred, and the results were quite surprising. Can't seem to find it now after a quick search but it would be great if someone who can use the search function properly could find it :thumb:

Personally, I like Turtle Wax Ice Paste at the moment. It's easy to use, great for trim, looks as good as anything else I've paid 3x as much for and has been on the car for around four months now and whilst it's dying, it's still there. Not that anyone on here would ever give serious consideration to it anyway


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Look what I found:-

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=79801

and

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=79876&highlight=big+wax+test


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

rayner said:


> I'll never understand the Americans.
> Pepsi with steak wtf? Get a proper drink :lol:


Being type II diabetic, a diet Pepsi is all that I can have with my steak. Alcohol could put me into a diabetic coma.

So as you were saying?


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

millns84 said:


> Look what I found:-
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=79801
> 
> ...


All in the prep.... And Swissvax BOS still won! :lol:


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> All in the prep.... And Swissvax BOS still won! :lol:


Yep, I can't really comment on high end waxes myself though (most expensive I have is HD).

You have to admit though, 915 coming second only to BOS is impressive. :thumb:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

millns84 said:


> Yep, I can't really comment on high end waxes myself though (most expensive I have is HD).
> 
> You have to admit though, 915 coming second only to BOS is impressive. :thumb:


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## alteclio (May 10, 2011)

And 9 from 20 people couldn't see any difference...


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

Junkman2008 said:


> Being type II diabetic, a diet Pepsi is all that I can have with my steak. Alcohol could put me into a diabetic coma.
> 
> So as you were saying?


Wasn't meaning you in particular jm I meant the American culture in general. Completely light hearted and no dig at yourself.


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## 4d_dc2 (Mar 28, 2008)

I wonder if someone lined say 4 waxes up together in plain white pots, one being a cheap £20 wax one being a mid £60 - £70 pound wax, one being a £200 - £300 pound wax and then a stupid £1000 + wax would people actually tell them apart and be able to put them in he right order of expense as I'm pretty sure they wouldn't. What do you guys think? Or has ever been done? It would make a good read imo.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Very good thread you found milns,never seen that before well done mate.From the pictures i couldn't see any difference and didn't think i would tbh.Definetly all in the prep for me.I can't even envisage a day when somebody can name a wax by eye without guesswork being involved.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

In person >>>>> pictures every time. :thumb:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

4d_dc2 said:


> I wonder if someone lined say 4 waxes up together in plain white pots, one being a cheap £20 wax one being a mid £60 - £70 pound wax, one being a £200 - £300 pound wax and then a stupid £1000 + wax would people actually tell them apart and be able to put them in he right order of expense as I'm pretty sure they wouldn't. What do you guys think? Or has ever been done? It would make a good read imo.


This is one of my main arguments and also one of the reasons that I made my sealant/wax video. People CAN'T always tell a significant sifference. Add to that, your car is only going to look as good as it can when you finish working on it. The second you drive it of leave it parked outside, dust begins to settle on it and starts covering up your shine. THUS, I put all mt work into the polishing aspect of paint correction and ONLY use wax to protect the shine I get from polishing. For me, wax is a protectant and polishing is for creating the shine.

I will agree that different waxes and sealants protect for various amounts of times but that is not a concern for me as I can wax my paint anytime I need to. My car is not exposed to harsh or extreme climates as it is garaged. So my situation is not typical for everyone but I have my regiment perfectly honed including what products that I can use, which is somewhat abundant.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Longevity doesen't bother me either tbh.I know some people class certain wax as designed for summer or winter use but i don't,i just roll with whatever i'm feeling at the time


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Longevity doesen't bother me either tbh.I know some people class certain wax as designed for summer or winter use but i don't,i just roll with whatever i'm feeling at the time


You and I see eye to eye. It's not rocket science, it's shiny cars. :thumb:


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## john90 (Nov 22, 2012)

I'm very new to detailing having only had a DA since Xmas. 

Firstly, a huge thank you to Junkman who's videos have been invaluable in my rapid learning and have resulted in me getting outstanding results on the missus's car and I am a VERY fussy person, having worked in the area or quality control for years. Also a huge thanks to msb who has given me loads of great honest advice on products, which have also helped me get these great results.

Now for my opinions on this topic, I have used my bonnet as a test bed and having corrected it as much as sensible, with no clearcoat layer, I have put a layer of Vics Concourse Red wax on, AF ToughCoat temporary sealant next to it and Ceramishield permanent sealant next to that and to be honest in the garage under lights or outside on a cloudy day I can't honestly see any difference between them visually. However, apply water and they all behave very differently. 

That's the extent of my testing so far but for me it suggests the prep is the critical part as I think most people agree with. After that for me its how long they each stay looking their best for. For me if a product makes cleaning the car less often, or needing to be rewaxed or topped up less often then that has a value. I want my car to look at its best or close to it as often as possible. 

So can you justify a £100 wax, when I can get a £20 one like Vics Red that looks essentially as good (especially in isolation)? For me yes, if it requires less maintanence of washing the car less often and/or durability. Yes it cost 5x more, but equally its only £80 more, and thats not long if looking at it in terms of my time, especially given how long the pot it going to last me. Whether a more expensive wax will have that advantage is another matter and one I don't have experience of yet. 

There is of course the other question of brands and other 'added value' aspects such as packaging. To be honest I'm less interested in this for waxes, for me its just the performance that counts, but I have to admit I'm a sucker in other areas like branded clothes, watches etc where it is just as hard to justify prices, especially something like my 1966 Breitling, which is worth over £2000, and performs far worse than a £5 digital watch in every measureable way, except desireability. 

At the end of the day it just what/how much people enjoy/justify spending money on, otherwise we would all just be using £1 products.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

Good post mate. :thumb:


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

Junkman2008 said:


> Well if you all are going to keep bringing up beef, I'm posting another photo.


Junkman, please tell me that Steak was really tasty, it looks divine:thumb:

Kev


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## Hercs74 (Dec 29, 2011)

I use a layer of FK1000p topped with 2 coats of Collinite 476s.. On a properly prepared surface I've had it last 4 months..

I used the above on a car in July 2007.. It's had the occasional wash, a coat of collinite applied in October and I had it again yesterday where it was washed and another top up cost of collinite 476s.. It still looks as good as when I spent 18 hours sorting it all out in July 2012...!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

spursfan said:


> Junkman, please tell me that Steak was really tasty, it looks divine:thumb:
> 
> Kev


That was one of many steaks that I shared with folks who attended one of my detailing clinics. The rule of thumb is that someone has to research an outstanding steakhouse BEFORE I do a clinic. After the clinic, we all head over to that said steakhouse and share some more detailing knowledge, laughs and good company while tearing into someone's cow.

That cow was DELICIOUS!


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

john90 said:


> Now for my opinions on this topic, I have used my bonnet as a test bed and having corrected it as much as sensible, with no clearcoat layer, I have put a layer of Vics Concourse Red wax on, AF ToughCoat temporary sealant next to it and Ceramishield permanent sealant next to that and to be honest in the garage under lights or outside on a cloudy day I can't honestly see any difference between them visually.


If you're going to look at the same things you look at when polishing paint, to judge differences in look between LSP's, you're _not _going to see much difference, because that is not where the differences are. This is not about having a clear mirror reflection.

If you're going to try and see differences between LSP's from how they look on a bonnet, you're also _not _going to see much difference, because a bonnet is usually not very suited for seeing those differences.

So, it's not a surprise, to me at least, that the people who are specifically interested in polishing ("prep"), so getting a surface that is as smooth and even as possible, are not the people who see differences between LSP's.

The differences in look that are there, come from differences in refractive indexes, that cause light to reflect in slightly different directions from the surface. This makes curved surfaces seem somewhat smaller or bigger than they look without LSP. You don't see that on a bonnet, which is usually hardly curved.

Also, there are differences in the character that reflections have. Not sure if anyone is familiar with the photography term "soft-focus?" The character of the soft-focus effect differs between LSP's, again due to differences in refractive indexes. Actually, there's a range of refractive indexes (for waxes, that is, usually not for sealants), and that range produces the soft-focus effect.

To really see differences in look between LSP's, you need to do at least a whole side of a car. Not just a bonnet. So, to compare the look of two LSP's properly, put tape over the middle line of the car. Left side one LSP, right side the other. Let the LSP's dry for several hours, preferably 12 in spring/autumn, perhaps even 48 in winter, when it's really cold, as the look of LSP's changes for some time after buffing off. Then compare the look of the two sides, in the same light (so not one side in the shadow, and the other in the sun, or something).


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## john90 (Nov 22, 2012)

Thanks and I agree to some level Edwald but the bonnet I've used is a mk1 Mazda mx5 (miata), which is very curved laterally from the wings before rising for the centre bulge, and likewise is heavily curved front to back. Granted its not a vertical surface but if its not possible (admittedly for an amature) to tell the difference between 3 very different products (no just different waxes afterall) next to each other then for me I would have thought the difference is negligable in isolation straight after application (and after a few weeks in the garage now without use).

I really value mark's (msb) honest opinion on subjects and he really believes he see's differences which I respect and believe, and the fact he prefered ********** wax ******* to the cheaper Durus and more expensive Number 1 underlines this for me, it wasn't just a simple the more expensive is better. I don't doubt the experts and experienced can see differences between products just like diamond merchants can see and make tiny grading differences between diamond colour and clarity, which again I couldn't see with the exception of extreams, when I was in the market for buying one. 

As I say I'm very new to this scene and am always willing to learn and I appreciate I have tried what is considered to be a good wax here and others may have looked different, but nothing I've seen so far has suggested these products change the appearance of a freshly corrected bonnet in a significant manner for me and the everyday person on the street, for me they appear to be on the whole protectors of what you've done and its how well they do this that matters more to me and where the value lays. 

I haven't tried numerous layers yet either, but plan to, to see if I can see the effect of depth.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

john90 said:


> Thanks and I agree to some level Edwald but the bonnet I've used is a mk1 Mazda mx5 (miata), which is very curved laterally from the wings before rising for the centre bulge, and likewise is heavily curved front to back. Granted its not a vertical surface but if its not possible (admittedly for an amature) to tell the difference between 3 very different products (no just different waxes afterall) next to each other then for me I would have thought the difference is negligable in isolation straight after application (and after a few weeks in the garage now without use), but as I say I'm very new to this scene and am always willing to learn and I appreciate I have tried what is considered to be a good wax here and others may have looked different, but nothing I've seen so far has suggested these products change the appearance of a freshly corrected bonnet in a significant manner, for me they appear to be protectors of what you've done and its how well they do this that matters to me. I haven't tried numerous layers yet either, but plan to, to see if I can see the effect of depth.


And the key word here is NOVICE. Let's face it, we are among the minority here. Compared to the world at a whole, there may be one in a thousand people who look at your car every week who actually know something about paint maintenance. Thus, your car is being oogled by hundreds of 'novices' every time you bring it out and they can't honestly tell the difference between one wax or another. So my thing is to go for what is most important about wax. That being how it protects instead of how it looks. I can get the look I want from polishing.


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## john90 (Nov 22, 2012)

Completely agree Junkman, was just adding a bit more to my post saying the same thing as you were writing yours it seems :thumbup:


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

I probably wouldn't see the difference between 3 LSP's on the bonnet of a mk1 Mazda mx5. This, for me, is a clear example of a bonnet that is just too flat for that. I could, perhaps, if one side of the car was done with one LSP, the other side with another (granted the LSP's differ enough in looks).

You don't know, actually, whether a "novice" sees something from waxed paint or not. People, for a fact, look at different things, and notice different things. You don't actually know what they notice.

Whether they can tell what it is exactly that they are seeing, then, is another matter. There are simply no good words to describe what differences in shine exist between LSP's. People on detailing forums use words like "wetlook," "glassy look," "shimmer," "warm glow," and while these words work for many, they don't work for everyone. For myself, I use different words than that.

The paint of cars in advertising photos often looks different than that of the same cars you see on the road. Do people notice that? Some do, some don't. If they notice that, can they put into words what it is exactly that's different? I think most of them, if asked, won't tell you more than that, to them, the paint is just clean and looks "shiny." The photographer who photographed the car, the detailer who detailed it, and the graphic designer who photoshopped it, are all going to say quite different things about the look, that an average person has no idea about.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

Ewald said:


> I probably wouldn't see the difference between 3 LSP's on the bonnet of a mk1 Mazda mx5. This, for me, is a clear example of a bonnet that is just too flat for that. I could, perhaps, if one side of the car was done with one LSP, the other side with another (granted the LSP's differ enough in looks).
> 
> You don't know, actually, whether a "novice" sees something from waxed paint or not. People, for a fact, look at different things, and notice different things. You don't actually know what they notice.
> 
> ...


Really? Are you serious?

Most novices can't even see swirls until you bring them to their attention!


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## alteclio (May 10, 2011)

Last year I started a test by applying 10 lps's to my bonnet and see if there was any difference between them.










Unfortunatley I couldn't end it so I have no other conclusions than one: it was impossible to see any difference in terms of look. But I agree with Ewald that you need to do at least half car to try to see any difference between lsp's, it's impossible on a bonnet. I can confirm though that my car doesn't look the same with 476 than with Z2 (with the same prep).


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

alteclio said:


> ... Unfortunatley I couldn't end it so I have no other conclusions than one: it was impossible to see any difference in terms of look.


Which again is why I spend my initial time with a car doing paint correction, concentrating on polishing the paint to perfection. Wax is a protectant. I just can't say that enough times. Investment to yield, polishing is going to give you way more bang for your buck.


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> Really? Are you serious?
> 
> Most novices can't even see swirls until you bring them to their attention!


I'm dead serious.

I don't understand why you point out that novices often don't see swirls. Because it is exactly my point that people see different things, and notice different things. Of course, many novices don't notice swirls, let alone understand how they got there.


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> Which again is why I spend my initial time with a car doing paint correction, concentrating on polishing the paint to perfection. Wax is a protectant. I just can't say that enough times. Investment to yield, polishing is going to give you way more bang for your buck.


Myself, I actually don't do paint correction, because I'm not a big fan of the look of that perfectly smooth surface. I clay, use a pre-wax cleaner, and such, to have a perfectly _clean_ surface, but I don't correct. Even as I do own a DA.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

If you guys think LSPs are only for protection, why would you even bother with wax? 

Slap some Opti-Coat on your car, and job done. :thumb:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

-Raven- said:


> If you guys think LSPs are only for protection, why would you even bother with wax?
> 
> Slap some Opti-Coat on your car, and job done. :thumb:


The reason i do is just for the pleasure of application,feel and water behaviour.Longevity doesn't really matter to me tbh.


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## john90 (Nov 22, 2012)

I came into this with no preconceived preference, no apple v android type bias between wax and sealants but from what I've seen so far Sealants are the best option for an everyday car with my time constraints and thus that's what I've applied to my missus's car, brothers car and father-in-laws because I think the looks given by Ceramishield and Tough Coat are plenty good enough for a daily even if there is a difference in looks between them and some waxes that I am yet to see on fully corrected paints, and I just don't want the work of maintanence with a wax on these cars. 

My car on the other hand is my hobby and a bit special, to me anyway, I've had it for 12years and spent many thousands of pounds doubling the power it left the factory with and upgrading most other parts to create a really well sorted car I plan to keep for many more years to come. It doesn't do massive miles and is always garaged and so I'm happy to invest whatever time and money is required on this car if it does give me an improvement in appearance. As I said previously it doesn't have clearcoat so it will get a coat of Ceramishield once I finish correcting the whole car, to act as a laquer layer, but I'm more than happy to put layers of wax over this if it improves the looks. I've already got Vics Concourse Red, Supernatural Hybrid and samples of ********** Number 1, *******, Rosso, Carrera and 200ml of '89' to try out. This was going to be done on the bonnet but I appreciate peoples experience and will test them on the side panels instead now, as I say I'm a newbe with lots still to learn I'm sure and look forward to trying them all to see how much difference, if any, there is to me. It's a little disappointing if the effects can't be seen on the boot and bonnet though, there's not much left on my car after them


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

john90 said:


> ... This was going to be done on the bonnet but I appreciate peoples experience and will test them on the side panels instead now, ...


John, I'm not saying test on the side panels, but test on _half the car_.

Actually, it's best to wax a whole car, to appreciate what the wax really does to the appearance. But, since the left and right halves are obviously a mirror image of each other, you can do the left half with one LSP, and the right half with another, and compare the looks of the two.

I say to wax half or whole of the car, to see what the wax does to the appearance, because a wax will subtly change the way that _shapes _of the car look. You can't see that on a couple of square foot of paint of a panel or bonnet. You need to take some steps back, and look at the entire car.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

john90 said:


> I came into this with no preconceived preference, no apple v android type bias between wax and sealants but from what I've seen so far Sealants are the best option for an everyday car with my time constraints and thus that's what I've applied to my missus's car, brothers car and father-in-laws because I think the looks given by Ceramishield and Tough Coat are plenty good enough for a daily even if there is a difference in looks between them and some waxes that I am yet to see on fully corrected paints, and I just don't want the work of maintanence with a wax on these cars.
> 
> My car on the other hand is my hobby and a bit special, to me anyway, I've had it for 12years and spent many thousands of pounds doubling the power it left the factory with and upgrading most other parts to create a really well sorted car I plan to keep for many more years to come. It doesn't do massive miles and is always garaged and so I'm happy to invest whatever time and money is required on this car if it does give me an improvement in appearance. As I said previously it doesn't have clearcoat so it will get a coat of Ceramishield once I finish correcting the whole car, to act as a laquer layer, but I'm more than happy to put layers of wax over this if it improves the looks. I've already got Vics Concourse Red, Supernatural Hybrid and samples of ********** Number 1, *******, Rosso, Carrera and 200ml of '89' to try out. This was going to be done on the bonnet but I appreciate peoples experience and will test them on the side panels instead now, as I say I'm a newbe with lots still to learn I'm sure and look forward to trying them all to see how much difference, if any, there is to me. It's a little disappointing if the effects can't be seen on the boot and bonnet though, there's not much left on my car after them


I would put money on noticing a difference finish wise between Vics Red and SN Hybrid finish wise they are miles apart, same as the ********** products they all do different things, yes essentially they ONLY protect the finish but have a talk to Jason at **********, there isn't much he doesn't know about wax and what you want to achieve product/looks wise, he even has a forum up and running now so the imformation is easily accessable:thumb:


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## john90 (Nov 22, 2012)

Thanks mark, I'll give the SN hybrid a go on the bonnet as that is already corrected and the SNH is 2nd hand so already open :thumbup:

Yea I've registered for the forum and I'll be posting on it this week hopefully, just waiting for a delivery


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> If you guys think LSPs are only for protection, why would you even bother with wax?
> 
> Slap some Opti-Coat on your car, and job done. :thumb:


Because we want to protect our paint from bird crap, water spots, industrial fallout and any other substance that may damage our paint?

What purpose do YOU use wax for?


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

Junkman2008 said:


> Because we want to protect our paint from bird crap, water spots, industrial fallout and any other substance that may damage our paint?
> 
> What purpose do YOU use wax for?


What he's saying is why bother with short life wax when there's 1-2 year + sealants out there...


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Seeing is believing,and i ain't seen no difference whether it's on the side,roof,boot or bonnet,and i've used many a wax and sealant in both price brackets.It's all in the prep for me.Polishing creates shine imo..And all shine is really is a reflection.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

rayner said:


> What he's saying is why bother with short life wax when there's 1-2 year + sealants out there...


Show me a sealant that last 1-2 years. That is so much of a marketing ploy. I'm surprised that anyone who knows anything about that stuff would fall for that gimmick.

A car that sits in an Arizona desert driveway in 115 degree sunshine and humidity for 365 days a year gets waxed with a sealant. The same sealant is use on a car sitting in a driveway for 365 days a year in subzero temperatures in Siberia. That same sealant is used on a garage queen living in Hawaii. The sealant is supposed to last for 1 year. Do you honest for one second believe that this sealant is going to last for half that long on all 3 cars? *How long a sealant or wax is going to last TOTALLY depends on what the car is subjected to.* This is common sense. For me, applying a sealant topped by a wax provides me with plenty protection for my garaged car. I do not have to reapply that combination for a few months.

Don't believe the hype. The emperor really has no cloths.


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

Junkman2008 said:


> Show me a sealant that last 1-2 years. That is so much of a marketing ploy. I'm surprised that anyone who knows anything about that stuff would fall for that gimmick.
> 
> A car that sits in an Arizona desert driveway in 115 degree sunshine and humidity for 365 days a year gets waxed with a sealant. The same sealant is use on a car sitting in a driveway for 365 days a year in subzero temperatures in Siberia. That same sealant is used on a garage queen living in Hawaii. The sealant is supposed to last for 1 year. Do you honest for one second believe that this sealant is going to last for half that long on all 3 cars? *How long a sealant or wax is going to last TOTALLY depends on what the car is subjected to.* This is common sense. For me, applying a sealant topped by a wax provides me with plenty protection for my garaged car. I do not have to reapply that combination for a few months.
> 
> Don't believe the hype. The emperor really has no cloths.


I know exactly what your saying and I've never used one of these long life or 'permanent' coatings so can't comment on them I was just saying what I think Raven was saying as it didn't look like you got what he was saying that's all.

Your dead right they can't last the same time. Hell even 2 cars sat on my drive have the same coating, same prep, same everything but one does a lot of off-road and a heck of a lot of mileage and has lasted just over 2 months before the looks have deteriorated enough for me to top up, the other sits on the drive and goes down the shops and looks as good as when first applyed (to my eyes).

I don't believe hype. Partly down to your brilliant videos! Thanks for posting them btw :thumb:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

Let me be clear, I don't consider those long life coatings to be sealants. They are in a different class. Although I have one, I have yet to test it out so I don't know what kind of life they have.


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

Ewald said:


> Myself, I actually don't do paint correction, because I'm not a big fan of the look of that perfectly smooth surface. I clay, use a pre-wax cleaner, and such, to have a perfectly _clean_ surface, but I don't correct. Even as I do own a DA.


What exactly is it that you look for in a cars finish ?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> Show me a sealant that last 1-2 years. That is so much of a marketing ploy. I'm surprised that anyone who knows anything about that stuff would fall for that gimmick.
> 
> A car that sits in an Arizona desert driveway in 115 degree sunshine and humidity for 365 days a year gets waxed with a sealant. The same sealant is use on a car sitting in a driveway for 365 days a year in subzero temperatures in Siberia. That same sealant is used on a garage queen living in Hawaii. The sealant is supposed to last for 1 year. Do you honest for one second believe that this sealant is going to last for half that long on all 3 cars? *How long a sealant or wax is going to last TOTALLY depends on what the car is subjected to.* This is common sense. For me, applying a sealant topped by a wax provides me with plenty protection for my garaged car. I do not have to reapply that combination for a few months.
> 
> Don't believe the hype. The emperor really has no cloths.


if you have not used a coating how can you say its a gimmick, your just guessing and have no proof on this. these coating are far superior when it comes to protection and durability. what interests me is now you say you use a sealant and a wax. what wax and sealant do you use


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## khurum6392 (Oct 11, 2012)

dodo juice supernatural


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> Show me a sealant that last 1-2 years. That is so much of a marketing ploy. I'm surprised that anyone who knows anything about that stuff would fall for that gimmick.
> 
> A car that sits in an Arizona desert driveway in 115 degree sunshine and humidity for 365 days a year gets waxed with a sealant. The same sealant is use on a car sitting in a driveway for 365 days a year in subzero temperatures in Siberia. That same sealant is used on a garage queen living in Hawaii. The sealant is supposed to last for 1 year. Do you honest for one second believe that this sealant is going to last for half that long on all 3 cars? *How long a sealant or wax is going to last TOTALLY depends on what the car is subjected to.* This is common sense. For me, applying a sealant topped by a wax provides me with plenty protection for my garaged car. I do not have to reapply that combination for a few months.
> 
> Don't believe the hype. The emperor really has no cloths.


I'm pretty sure ALL the coatings last 1-2 years quite easily, apart from EXO. They all provide MEASERABLE THICKNESS on the the paint too. If protection is what you want, then use something that actually provides decent protection! :thumb:

Interestingly, I really like the look of the silica/ceramic coatings ive used (heaps!), they look completely different to anything else in a good way. A glassy super glossy look that you just can't get with regular waxes or sealants.

So they provide awesome protection, as well as great looks!!! 

The Emperor has a whole wardrobe full of new clothes!! :lol::lol::lol:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

cheekymonkey said:


> if you have not used a coating how can you say its a gimmick, your just guessing and have no proof on this. these coating are far superior when it comes to protection and durability. what interests me is now you say you use a sealant and a wax. what wax and sealant do you use


Reading is fundamental. *Look at post #116*. It helps to read the entire thread before responding sometimes.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> I'm pretty sure ALL the coatings last 1-2 years quite easily, apart from EXO. They all provide MEASERABLE THICKNESS on the the paint too. If protection is what you want, then use something that actually provides decent protection! :thumb:


Okay, which topic do you want to cover, Sealants and waxes or coatings? The thread is about waxes and sealants, not coatings. If you want to discuss coatings, start a new thread.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> Because we want to protect our paint from bird crap, water spots, industrial fallout and any other substance that may damage our paint?
> 
> What purpose do YOU use wax for?


Only looks. :thumb:

Protection is just a given when using an LSP, and is of no concern what so ever to me at all. So, if you going to use a wax, may as well use one that makes it look great while you're at it! 

My point was if protection is your only concern, there are better things to protect your paint with then regular waxes and sealants.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> Okay, which topic do you want to cover, Sealants and waxes or coatings? The thread is about waxes and sealants, not coatings. If you want to discuss coatings, start a new thread.


:tumbleweed:

I'm not sure how scores are kept on this internetz thingy, but I believe I may have just won! 

:lol::lol::lol:

Winning vid

.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> Only looks. :thumb:
> 
> Protection is just a given when using an LSP, and is of no concern what so ever to me at all. So, if you going to use a wax, may as well use one that makes it look great while you're at it!
> 
> My point was if protection is your only concern, there are better things to protect your paint with then regular waxes and sealants.


Well then we fundamentally disagree on the purpose of an LSP. There are folks in this thread who disagree with you also. That's fine, I can agree to disagree. That doesn't stop the price of beef from going up.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> :tumbleweed:
> 
> I'm not sure how scores are kept on this internetz thingy, but I believe I may have just won!
> 
> :lol::lol::lol:


*Illusions of Grandeur*

An Illusion is the state of being deceived. Grandeur is the quality of being impressive or awesome. Therefore, someone who has Illusions of grandeur is deceiving themselves into thinking they are impressive or awesome in some way. In reality, no one else sees them in this way.


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## AdnanKhan (Aug 16, 2012)

Not surprised at the number of replies to this post as many seem offended and have reacted in order to justify their expensive wax purchases. I use collie 476s works a treat and lasts and lasts. 

When you post a thread about which wax to use on DW you are in for entertainment. Just like how tech forums argue iphone or Samsung..... Lol. 

Just use a bit of common sense and realise that a durable wax is priority and not flashy packaging and branding. Won't make your car look any better. 

And here's a good one. In a other forum I posted a picture of my car without wax and no polishing. Looked great and I had over 50 comments from people saying I did a great job when all I did was wash it. 

sent from my Samsung GT-I9100 via tapacrap


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> Well then we fundamentally disagree on the purpose of an LSP. There are folks in this thread who disagree with you also. That's fine, I can agree to disagree. That doesn't stop the price of beef from going up.


Thats cool man. It would be supremely boring if everybody agreed. 

I just think that any LSP provides protection, so may as well use one that looks great while you're at it! Hence my only concern is looks. :thumb: I'm just from the camp that can see differences in LSPs, not everyone can. 

And I'm also saying if protection is the only thing you want, theres things out there that are a million times better than regular waxes and sealants!  They just happen to look great too!


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Think of it like this,if i waxed your car with R222 for instance but had an expensive wax pot from switzerland in my hand would you know the difference?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> Reading is fundamental. *Look at post #116*. It helps to read the entire thread before responding sometimes.


i read that but where does it say there not a gimmick and if reading is so fundamental then why not read the rest and answer what sealant and wax you use :thumb:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Think of it like this,if i waxed your car with R222 for instance but had an expensive wax pot from switzerland in my hand would you know the difference?


yes because after a week the 222 would of gone the swiss one has far better durability makes you think which 1 works out more expensive


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> Okay, which topic do you want to cover, Sealants and waxes or coatings? The thread is about waxes and sealants, not coatings. If you want to discuss coatings, start a new thread.


reading is fundamental the thread is about wax not sealant :lol::lol:. f you want to talk about sealants start a new thread :thumb:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> yes because after a week the 222 would of gone the swiss one has far better durability makes you think which 1 works out more expensive


Lol,good answer.I just think it would be hard to tell though when first applied


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## HarryCCC (Nov 20, 2012)

This thread has certainly taken off since i posted it! Thankfully my search for a wax is over!


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

AdnanKhan said:


> Not surprised at the number of replies to this post as many seem offended and have reacted in order to justify their expensive wax purchases. I use collie 476s works a treat and lasts and lasts.
> 
> When you post a thread about which wax to use on DW you are in for entertainment. Just like how tech forums argue iphone or Samsung..... Lol.
> 
> ...


yes, always entertainment these threads. They come up every week, and its always the same crap over and over again......

I will say there's a lot more to wax than just durability. If there wasn't, you wouldn't bother with a wax at all. Looks, scent, ease of use, beading, sheeting, texture, as well as packaging and branding are extremely important to many people. Some people just refuse to use a cheap tin full of fumes. Some people want to treat themselves with a nice boutique wax.

My favourite wax costs £20 for 3oz by the way, the mighty Victoria Wax Concours. People bang on about cost. Cost is not of a concern to me at all. It's what's inside that counts. 

And isn't it great that people are nice when you post a pic of your car. :thumb:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Think of it like this,if i waxed your car with R222 for instance but had an expensive wax pot from switzerland in my hand would you know the difference?


yes.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

For me Bouncers 22, Raceglaze 55, Autofinesse Spirit and HD wax, all great waxes to use and offer decent durability.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

HarryCCC said:


> This thread has certainly taken off since i posted it! Thankfully my search for a wax is over!


which one did you decide on?


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> *Illusions of Grandeur*
> 
> An Illusion is the state of being deceived. Grandeur is the quality of being impressive or awesome. Therefore, someone who has Illusions of grandeur is deceiving themselves into thinking they are impressive or awesome in some way. In reality, no one else sees them in this way.


Come on man, don't crack the sads and tell me to start my own thread just because you don't get your own way.

Weren't you the one posting pictures of steak?


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## voon (Apr 28, 2010)

I ditched all waxes and went for opticoat 2.0. Best decision I ever made in the car cleaning hobby


----------



## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

voon said:


> I ditched all waxes and went for opticoat 2.0. Best decision I ever made in the car cleaning hobby


How did you get on with it first time round? I'm keen to get some myself


----------



## voon (Apr 28, 2010)

Unsure what you mean? How I prepped the car?


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

AdnanKhan said:


> Not surprised at the number of replies to this post as many seem offended and have reacted in order to justify their expensive wax purchases. I use collie 476s works a treat and lasts and lasts.
> 
> When you post a thread about which wax to use on DW you are in for entertainment. Just like how tech forums argue iphone or Samsung..... Lol.
> 
> ...


How right you are. Check this out. I would love to hear what people think as to which finish looks better on my car in these two different pictures. I used different products to get this look. If you are feeling extra knowledgeable (especially those of you who claim to use a wax for looks), guess as to if a sealant, carnuba paste or regular wax was used. Put your money where your mouth is.


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

cheekymonkey said:


> reading is fundamental the thread is about wax not sealant :lol::lol:. f you want to talk about sealants start a new thread :thumb:


A sealant is a type of wax in my book. I don't know what YOU consider a sealant to be.


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

Okay all you "wax makes your paint shine" guys, where you at?


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> How right you are. Check this out. I would love to hear what people think as to which finish looks better on my car in these two different pictures. I used different products to get this look. If you are feeling extra knowledgeable (especially those of you who claim to use a wax for looks), guess as to if a sealant, carnuba paste or regular wax was used. Put your money where your mouth is.


How about taking pictures in the exact same lighting, at the exact same angle?

Good luck with that! :lol:

(You know you can't tell **** from pictures right?)


----------



## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

spursfan said:


> What exactly is it that you look for in a cars finish ?


That's not easy to put into words, actually.

I like to see some reflectivity, but not too much. My car is not supposed to be a mirror, so I leave the bit of orange peel there.

As I said before, waxes can give a bit of an effect of making the car seem a bit bigger or smaller. My car is very curvy (Nissan Micra), which makes this effect more noticable than on other cars.

When they seem to make the car bigger, I quickly find it makes my car look kind of "sluggish." Migliore Original is a nice wax, but it does that to my car. Migliore Endurance spray also makes my car look bigger, but I actually like the effect. I often put is on the bonnet, which is actually more curved than on other cars, to make it look bigger, as it otherwise looks a bit smallish. (From what I've seen, I could also like the Migliore Competizione on my car.)

With LSP's that make the car look somewhat smaller, they often make the car look sort of "faster," which I like. Mothers Showtime detailer spray does this. The tendency is, however, that this also makes the car look "tense," which I don't like. I've had this with some of the waxes I made myself.

Sometimes, a wax can do both at the same time (because a thin wax layer is basically a mixture of refractive indexes). Swissvax Onyx does that, and I don't like how this looks.

Next to giving the illusion of a car being somewhat bigger or smaller, there's a kind of character to shine, that I find almost impossible to put into words. (Technically, it's there because there's a range of refractive indexes.) Sealants, and some waxes have only little of it, but it's quite important to me. Swissvax BOS/Concorso, and other concours waxes have this to the best. I have not been impressed by pictures of cars with the ********** waxes in this regard, or Autofinesse's, but who knows, perhaps I missed something.

With the waxes I make myself, these aspects of the finish are my main focus. I first test my waxes on a painted cylinder object, to bring these out maximally.


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> How about taking pictures in the exact same lighting, at the exact same angle?
> 
> Good luck with that! :lol:
> 
> (You know you can't tell **** from pictures right?)


So I'll put you down under the category that you can't backup what you claim. NEXT!


----------



## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> So I'll put you down under the category that you can't backup what you claim. NEXT!


bring your car around and I'll tell you. :thumb:

A photograph will just show what you tell the camera to. Your car could be a big swirly mess for all we know.... 

And at the end of the day, you'll just say I'm wrong. :lol:


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> bring your car around and I'll tell you. :thumb:
> 
> A photograph will just show what you tell the camera to. Your car could be a big swirly mess for all we know....
> 
> And at the end of the day, you'll just say I'm wrong. :lol:


And THAT'S why I made my sealant video! Just for guys like you! So are you telling me that you can't see it on video either, even though I put the camera 1 INCH from the paint? My video proves exactly what I've been saying in this thread! Go watch it!


----------



## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> And THAT'S why I made my sealant video! Just for guys like you! So are you telling me that you can't see it on video either, even though I put the camera 1 INCH from the paint? My video proves exactly what I've been saying in this thread! Go watch it!


1" from the paint? No way! That proves everything right there! :doublesho


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Is your car fully corrected raven?


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> 1" from the paint? No way! That proves everything right there! :doublesho


I see you still haven't watched it. Better yet, make your own video and prove YOUR point! You Tube is free. Then we can see if you actually know what you're talking about. I'm standing by.


----------



## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

Play nice fellas.....its only car cleaning

Back to the OP.
Favourite wax ive used under a ton
********** Wax. Durus Glaze


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Is your car fully corrected raven?


Of course it is. I've posted quite a few detail threads for the whole world to see every time it gets done. :thumb:

Have you posted any detail threads in those 2k posts of yours?


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> I see you still haven't watched it. Better yet, make your own video and prove YOUR point! You Tube is free. Then we can see if you actually know what you're talking about. I'm standing by.


Nope, not yet. But is it in HD?


----------



## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

-Raven- said:


> Of course it is. I've posted quite a few detail threads for the whole world to see every time it gets done. :thumb:
> 
> Have you posted any detail threads in those 2k posts of yours?


No not yet.Never felt the need to tbh.My motor was corrected by me about a year and a half ago so all can do is show pictures of a clean car,which there's no point with out the whole procedure.


----------



## GMToyota (Mar 14, 2010)

I ditched the Collinite 915 and replaced it with the 5-6x more expensive Swissvax Shield. Because it smells better, is easier to use, has the same longevity and it comes in a nicer jar. 
Is it a better wax? Yes, in my opinion it definitely is! 
Is it the better looking wax? No. It doesn't give me 5-6x better looks... not even 1.01x better looks to be honest. 

Can a wax impove the look of a car? Well yes, on my previous car: A 19 year old Toyota with not-so-green-anymore paint, the oils in some waxes did noticeably darken the paint. I noticed this first with the cheapy Natty's Blue, but also with Raceglaze's 55.

But only after a full correction with a nice glaze I was able to achieve look:









I'd buy a wax or sealant based on multiple things: durability, ease of use, sheeting/beading behaviour, packaging, perhaps even exclusiveness. 'Looks' are probably lowest on the priority list.


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## john90 (Nov 22, 2012)

That looks really nice gmtoyota, love the colour and reflections. :thumbup:


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> Nope, not yet. But is it in HD?


Full 1080p.


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

GMToyota said:


> ... I'd buy a wax or sealant based on multiple things: durability, ease of use, sheeting/beading behaviour, packaging, perhaps even exclusiveness. 'Looks' are probably lowest on the priority list.


----------



## john90 (Nov 22, 2012)

Ewald said:


> That's not easy to put into words, actually.
> 
> I like to see some reflectivity, but not too much. My car is not supposed to be a mirror, so I leave the bit of orange peel there.
> 
> ...


I can honestly say I've never seen a "tense" micra, but the Migilors and Mothers could be of interest if they are genital and moob and safe !!!


----------



## john90 (Nov 22, 2012)

R0B said:


> Play nice fellas.....its only car cleaning
> 
> Back to the OP.
> Favourite wax ive used under a ton
> ********** Wax. Durus Glaze


In defense of waxes, I was at the brilliant SystemClenze facility the other day and there was a newish silver Merc coupe there that Matt had done in ********** '89' wax and the finish on that blew me away, how much was Matts proffessional brillance and how much was down to the wax I don't know as I didn't see it pre-wax but the looks, depth, gloss, reflections etc etc were very very impressive.


----------



## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Is your car fully corrected raven?


You had to ask that?? you are way out of your depth matey


----------



## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

R0B said:


> Play nice fellas.....its only car cleaning
> 
> Back to the OP.
> Favourite wax ive used under a ton
> ********** Wax. Durus Glaze


Bang on the threads about best wax,not bickering over what looks may or may not be achieved with sealants/waxes etc:wall:

1. ********** Wax Durus
2. Zymol Glasur 
3. Auto Finesses Spirit,

and as another runner up Definitives ****** is very good as well:thumb:


----------



## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

msb said:


> You had to ask that?? you are way out of your depth matey


No not really.For the simple reason that if it is,which he say's it is, then i don't know how he's seeing all these different looks.Shine comes from prep and machines matey


----------



## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> No not really.For the simple reason that if it is,which he say's it is, then i don't know how he's seeing all these different looks.Shine comes from prep and machines matey


Oakey dokey:thumb:
Not dissagreeing about he huge importance of decent prep,and i wouldn't have thought raven would dissagree on that, but what you seal it in with does influence the final finish, and i totally agree with what raven is saying tbh


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> No not really.For the simple reason that if it is,which he say's it is, then i don't know how he's seeing all these different looks.Shine comes from prep and machines matey


Good point.


----------



## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

Yawn broken record springs to mind, so glad i'm on here so much less now


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> A sealant is a type of wax in my book. I don't know what YOU consider a sealant to be.


really you dont know the diffrence  speaks volumes imo:thumb:


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> No not really.For the simple reason that if it is,which he say's it is, then i don't know how he's seeing all these different looks.Shine comes from prep and machines matey


because there are diffrences in lsp's, a good wax looks nothing like a sealant.
does r222 look like colli?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> Good point.


junkman you still havent said what sealant and wax you use:thumb:


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> Full 1080p.


video/ pictures will only show a large difference ie swirl and none swirl 50/50. the video and pictures you do wont show the detail needed to see the difference not even at 1inch away,


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Is your car fully corrected raven?


a nice read :thumb:
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=292955


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

cheekymonkey said:


> really you dont know the diffrence  speaks volumes imo:thumb:


Of all the people on this forum, you are the absolute LAST person I need to prove anything to. If you know half as much as you think you do, enlighten us Einstein.


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> Of all the people on this forum, you are the absolute LAST person I need to prove anything to. If you know half as much as you think you do, enlighten us Einstein.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
so you saying you dont know then . still not answered what sealant and wax do you use,


----------



## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

cheekymonkey said:


> video/ pictures will only show a large difference ie swirl and none swirl 50/50. the video and pictures you do wont show the detail needed to see the difference not even at 1inch away,


Come on man, Junkman's ~96dpi vs the ~2200dpi we can see? :lol:

20/20 vision is what, ~900dpi @ 4"? How does your 1080p monitor look at that distance? :lol:


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

-Raven- said:


> Come on man, Junkman's ~96dpi vs the ~2200dpi we can see? :lol:
> 
> 20/20 vision is what, ~900dpi @ 4"? How does your 1080p monitor look at that distance? :lol:


o right think i must need new specs will go tomorrow get some binoculars they will work


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

cheekymonkey said:


> because there are diffrences in lsp's, a good wax looks nothing like a sealant.
> does r222 look like colli?


And there's where you and I differ in opinion when it comes to sealants and waxes. I don't use a wax or sealant with a "LOOK" on mind! I'm not trying to get a look, I'm going for protection. I have said that countless times in this thread alone, and I have posted a totally separate thread explaining in detail my opinions on waxes and sealants. Had you read ALL of my post in this thread AND watched my video, you would have known this.


----------



## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> No not really.For the simple reason that if it is,which he say's it is, then i don't know how he's seeing all these different looks.Shine comes from prep and machines matey


Polishing is only one part of package. We all agree its the most important part, but its only one part. 

Next you'll be trying to tell us glazes do nothing either! 

Give me a sealant that looks like Pinnacle Souveran or Vics Red, and I'm all for it. :thumb:

No regular wax or sealant looks like a silica coating. NONE! I don't care how good you think you can polish. 

Even the silica coatings from various manufacturers look different.


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

cheekymonkey said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
> so you saying you dont know then . still not answered what sealant and wax do you use,


And you haven't answered the question either. People in glass houses should not throw stones.


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> And there's where you and I differ in opinion when it comes to sealants and waxes. I don't use a wax or sealant with a "LOOK" on mind! I'm not trying to get a look, I'm going for protection. I have said that countless times in this thread alone, and I have posted a totally separate thread explaining in detail my opinions on waxes and sealants. Had you read ALL of my post in this thread AND watched my video, you would have known this.


As you have been told already if it is just protection you want then use a coating far superior to any wax or sealant.
One thing that doesn't make sense though is if you are just wanting protection why use both a sealant and a wax. again what sealant and wax do you use


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> Come on man, Junkman's ~96dpi vs the ~2200dpi we can see? :lol:
> 
> 20/20 vision is what, ~900dpi @ 4"? How does your 1080p monitor look at that distance? :lol:


Your rhetoric bores me. Take your ball and go home.


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

cheekymonkey said:


> As you have been told already if it is just protection you want then use a coating far superior to any wax or sealant.
> One thing that doesn't make sense though is if you are just wanting protection why use both a sealant and a wax. again what sealant and wax do you use


I explain that in my video. Go watch it if you don't know why I do it.


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> And you haven't answered the question either. People in glass houses should throw stones.


what is your problem with answering a simple question, i bet you still wont answer it will you, :wall::wall::wall::wall:
ps i live in a glass house so i can see my lovley waxed car


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> I explain that in my video. Go watch it if you don't know why I do it.


not intrested in video just tell me simple enough mate. sooner have a 2 way conversation


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

cheekymonkey said:


> not intrested in video just tell me simple enough mate. sooner have a 2 way conversation


When you outrank me, you can demand answers. Until then...


----------



## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> Your rhetoric bores me. Take your ball and go home.


http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=250176

Here is a test I did with two polymer glazes. You can clearly see the difference in my poor quality photos. Are you seriously going to continue to tell us LSP's make no difference what so ever?


----------



## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

cheekymonkey said:


> a nice read :thumb:
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=292955


i guess I should have used Colli on that! :lol:


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> When you outrank me, you can demand answers. Until then...
> 
> Haters Gonna Hate! - YouTube


omg what the fock you on about now, outrank :lol::lol: just another way of not answering a simple question. there is a saying about people who cant answer questions :doublesho
Bit sill of me to think of coming on a forum to have a conversation 
so what sealant and wax do you use


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

-Raven- said:


> i guess I should have used Colli on that! :lol:


no one would of noticed :thumb:


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> And there's where you and I differ in opinion when it comes to sealants and waxes. I don't use a wax or sealant with a "LOOK" on mind! I'm not trying to get a look, I'm going for protection. I have said that countless times in this thread alone, and I have posted a totally separate thread explaining in detail my opinions on waxes and sealants. Had you read ALL of my post in this thread AND watched my video, you would have known this.


so are you saying theres no difference in looks between colli 476 and R222 as thats what i asked not what do you use it for :thumb:


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=250176
> 
> Here is a test I did with two polymer glazes. You can clearly see the difference in my poor quality photos. Are you seriously going to continue to tell us LSP's make no difference what so ever?


Reading is fundamental. Quote me in this thread where I said that LSP's make no difference whatsoever. Call me when you find it. I have a woman to go play with.


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> Reading is fundamental. Quote me in this thread where I said that LSP's make no difference whatsoever. Call me when you find it. I have a woman to go play with.


who your nanny
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

still not answered what sealant and wax you use


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> And there's where you and I differ in opinion about waxes. Wax is a PROTECTANT.


----------



## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> Reading is fundamental. Quote me in this thread where I said that LSP's make no difference whatsoever. Call me when you find it. I have a woman to go play with.


BS! :wave:

You've spent this entire thread claiming LSPs are only for protection, and even posted (poor) pics of your car, and your video trying to prove us all wrong! 

Why the change of heart all of a sudden? :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> BS! :wave:
> 
> You've spent this entire thread claiming LSPs are only for protection, and even posted (poor) pics of your car, and your video trying to prove us all wrong!
> 
> Why the change of heart all of a sudden? :lol::lol::lol:


Have you found the post yet? I ain't waiting for long. I've got better looking women to play with than you.


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> Have you found the post yet? I ain't waiting for long. I've got better looking women to play with than you.


reading is fundamental check post 195


----------



## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

cheekymonkey said:


> reading is fundamental check post 195


I'll say it again. This time, see if you can match the statement you made, WORD FOR WORD. *Quote me in this thread where I said that LSP's make no difference whatsoever.*

If you can find it, I will respond if my girl leaves. She's a lot more interesting than your circle jerk. You should get out more. :thumb:


----------



## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Junkman2008 said:


> I'll say it again. This time, see if you can match the statement you made, WORD FOR WORD. *Quote me in this thread where I said that LSP's make no difference whatsoever.*
> 
> If you can find it, I will respond if my girl leaves. She's a lot more interesting than your circle jerk. You should get out more. :thumb:


see you back in a minute then champ!


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junkman2008 said:


> I'll say it again. This time, see if you can match the statement you made, WORD FOR WORD. *Quote me in this thread where I said that LSP's make no difference whatsoever.*
> 
> If you can find it, I will respond if my girl leaves. She's a lot more interesting than your circle jerk. You should get out more. :thumb:


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
doesn't have to be word for word what you said in that post means exactly the same. if you keep coming back on here you' have to do the jerking mate she will of gone to sleep :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

.......And I think we'll call that the end of another successful 'Best Wax' thread for this week! :lol:

I can't wait for the one next week!


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

so junkman 
you dont like aio's
http://www.topoftheline.com/32ozmidswirr.html

how you apply it should of given you an idea of what you was using, medium pressure and work in. :lol::lol::lol:

think this shows how much you actually know about products and detailing:thumb:


----------



## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

Well, Junkman2008 did thank alteclio for his post where he said:


alteclio said:


> But I agree with Ewald that you need to do at least half car to try to see any difference between lsp's, ...


and


alteclio said:


> I can confirm though that my car doesn't look the same with 476 than with Z2 (with the same prep).


----------



## voon (Apr 28, 2010)

So you need to do half the car to even see a difference, at a close distance noone else is ever going to be when driving around or on a parking? Now that's a good reason to shell out a lot of money


----------



## john90 (Nov 22, 2012)

voon said:


> So you need to do half the car to even see a difference, at a close distance noone else is ever going to be when driving around or on a parking? Now that's a good reason to shell out a lot of money


I have to agree, as I've said I can't tell the difference between vics concourse wax, af toughcoat spray sealant and Ceramishield coating on a 3rd of my bonnet at any distance and under any light conditions so I think its hard to justify prices on looks.

As I've also said though, open hose water behaviour couldn't be more different






The packaging, application, smells. Etc are all different as will the durability so I can see the price justification for all these, but yet to see significant differences in looks tbh.


----------



## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

-Raven- said:


> Polishing is only one part of package. We all agree its the most important part, but its only one part.
> 
> Next you'll be trying to tell us glazes do nothing either!
> 
> ...


 Chill out a bit raven it's justa an opinion,we have already established that you see a difference i don't mate,what can i say.The only difference for me is water behaviour,feel and durability


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Chill out a bit raven it's justa an opinion,we have already established that you see a difference i don't mate,what can i say.The only difference for me is water behaviour,feel and durability


one thing i never get is why people go on about water behavior?. personally it does nothing and has no benifit imo.


----------



## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> one thing i never get is why people go on about water behavior?. personally it does nothing and has no benifit imo.


The shapes and sizes and speed of beads cheeky lol,that's what i like mate.Call me strange but i love to see my car covered in perfect little marbles,and the speed they roll off at.Especially when it's pissing down.I mean come on you gotta love water living in england/uk
:detailer:


----------



## john90 (Nov 22, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> one thing i never get is why people go on about water behavior?. personally it does nothing and has no benifit imo.


...but is that true though? I honestly don't know. Does water behaviour influence self-cleaning abilities? I too don't care if it has small beads, irregular beads or the speed it sheets but I do care about how clean the car stays, how little I need to clean it and thus related how long it will before it needs to be corrected too. If you look at the vid I posted the center section is Toughcoat and sheets really slowly and as one, where as the Vics wax at the top of bonnet and the Ceramishield at the bottom sheet really quickly and not uniformly as one. Does that matter, is it better to sheet quickly or is 'drying' as one more important or does it not matter?

It was by no means a scientific test with many flaws but still interesting on some level.


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> The shapes and sizes and speed of beads cheeky lol,that's what i like mate.Call me strange but i love to see my car covered in perfect little marbles,and the speed they roll off at.Especially when it's pissing down.I mean come on you gotta love water living in england/uk
> :detailer:


hi strange :lol:
so its its the visual thing you like which theres nothing wrong with that but i'm meaning as a benifit what good does it do


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

john90 said:


> ...but is that true though? I honestly don't know. Does water behaviour influence self-cleaning abilities? I too don't care if it has small beads, irregular beads or the speed it sheets but I do care about how clean the car stays, how little I need to clean it and thus related how long it will before it needs to be corrected too. If you look at the vid I posted the center section is Toughcoat and sheets really slowly and as one, where as the Vics wax at the top of bonnet and the Ceramishield at the bottom sheet really quickly and not uniformly as one. Does that matter, is it better to sheet quickly or is 'drying' as one more important or does it not matter?
> 
> It was by no means a scientific test with many flaws but still interesting on some level.


thing is John people can do these test like you did nothing wrong with that and its part of the hole detailing experience. Playing with products and making your own mind up on what you like. 
Toughcoat should sheet faster then vic as its a sealant where as vics is a wax and sheeting i can understand will help with cleaning but beads do nothing. Take for instance when we get the really dirty rain your car ends up with these spots of dirt, which is caused by the beading, so is beading good for your paint or bad?. I would of thought that every time it rains the beads will leave air born dirt behind, so does beading encourage fall out?


----------



## john90 (Nov 22, 2012)

Agreed, that is what I mean, I don't care about how pretty beads look, if sheeting keeps the car cleaner I would rather have that personally. So while I don't care about water behaviour as such I care about the result of it.


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Chill out a bit raven it's justa an opinion,we have already established that you see a difference i don't mate,what can i say.The only difference for me is water behaviour,feel and durability


Its your lost buddy,its really seems sad if you cant tell the different looks of different LSPs..
and youre in a detaling forum no less..


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Chill out a bit raven it's justa an opinion,we have already established that you see a difference i don't mate,what can i say.The only difference for me is water behaviour,feel and durability


I don't think Raven or Cheekymonkey need to chill out, but i do think junkman has to answer perfectly reasonable questions to support his quite frankly outragous claims, he has not yet proven anything compared to legitimate long term members like raven with plenty of threads proving and supporting what they are preaching, till junkman can do that he is just making a plonker of himself tbh


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> hi strange :lol:
> so its its the visual thing you like which theres nothing wrong with that but i'm meaning as a benifit what good does it do


Hahaha,i'm telling you my darkest secrets.In all seriousness though i'm not too sure what benefit it has tbh mate but it gives me the impression the cars protected even though it still can bead with no lsp at all if it's clean enough.Good question though


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Hahaha,i'm telling you my darkest secrets.In all seriousness though i'm not too sure what benefit it has tbh mate but it gives me the impression the cars protected even though it still can bead with no lsp at all if it's clean enough.Good question though


that is my point so many on here have read about beading and sheeting and put it as a priority when picking a lsp but dont know what its benefits are, and Ray im not have a go at you about this, i'm just wanting to know the importance of beading and sheeting does any one know?


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

john90 said:


> Agreed, that is what I mean, I don't care about how pretty beads look, if sheeting keeps the car cleaner I would rather have that personally. So while I don't care about water behaviour as such I care about the result of it.


but is the cleaning all down to sheeting ? most times when it rains its not heavy enough to sheet?. I personally put it down to it having a slicker more uniformed finish.


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## john90 (Nov 22, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> but is the cleaning all down to sheeting ? most times when it rains its not heavy enough to sheet?. I personally put it down to it having a slicker more uniformed finish.


Possibly, maybe both, or chicken and egg !!!!


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

ronwash said:


> Its your lost buddy,its really seems sad if you cant tell the different looks of different LSPs..
> and youre in a detaling forum no less..


No need to feel sad on my behalf,if you think you see differences then good for you ron.But don't stress yourself out trying to convince me.Me and five of mates have done our own real world tests on fully corrected cars,and just one of them thought he could see something,that's why i asked the question about the R222, and that other wax from switzerland,because that's two that we used
Regards


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> that is my point so many on here have read about beading and sheeting and put it as a priority when picking a lsp but dont know what its benefits are, and Ray im not have a go at you about this, i'm just wanting to know the importance of beading and sheeting does any one know?


No that's a good question,i like it.As i said,for me i just like to see uniform fast beads which means it's repelling water,as opposed to some cars you see without any protection at all.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

********** Durus, £90 pounds £10 pounds change left for you :thumb:

You will find this wax will perform 8 times it's price; it's a very unique wax to own plus the durability is high :thumb:


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=250176
> 
> Here is a test I did with two polymer glazes. You can clearly see the difference in my poor quality photos. Are you seriously going to continue to tell us LSP's make no difference what so ever?


Having read the thread , i cant see any sentences where Junkman says that LSP's make no difference what so ever.
If you can prove that he said this in his posts on this thread, please cut and paste a reply on here so you cab back up your claims


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

cheekymonkey said:


> that is my point so many on here have read about beading and sheeting and put it as a priority when picking a lsp but dont know what its benefits are, and Ray im not have a go at you about this, i'm just wanting to know the importance of beading and sheeting does any one know?


Well the first ones for folk that like to photograph their car at 5.30 in the morning with dew on it or some rain and post pictures up of it ....

other is for people that want less retention of water on the car and if you believe....... less dirt retained on the surface :lol:


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Is that what JunksMan said :doublesho Unbelievable, I say lets demand a show down with the champ  and lets see who is right :thumb:


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## GMToyota (Mar 14, 2010)

lol, the point is: Junkman didn't say that.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

I have to hear it from the Horses mouth 

I'll wait for Junkman's on here :driver:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

spursfan said:


> Having read the thread , i cant see any sentences where Junkman says that LSP's make no difference what so ever.
> If you can prove that he said this in his posts on this thread, please cut and paste a reply on here so you cab back up your claims


Watch his vid if you can stand it, I got 5 minutes in myself! 

He states that LSPs are for protection only, and his posts in this whole thread has been in response to me talking about looks. Even going on about his video 'for guys like me'.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

spursfan said:


> Having read the thread , i cant see any sentences where Junkman says that LSP's make no difference what so ever.
> If you can prove that he said this in his posts on this thread, please cut and paste a reply on here so you cab back up your claims


check post 195 you will see the quote he used or watch his video on applying sealants and waxes he quotes it in that. would suggest watching the video very entertaining :thumb:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

GMToyota said:


> I'd buy a wax or sealant based on multiple things: durability, ease of use, sheeting/beading behaviour, packaging, perhaps even exclusiveness. 'Looks' are probably lowest on the priority list.


GMToyota
seeing as sheeting/beading is 3rd on your lists of priority's of a lsp maybe you can explane to me what the benefits are


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

-Raven- said:


> Watch his vid if you can stand it, I got 5 minutes in myself!
> 
> He states that LSPs are for protection only, and his posts in this whole thread has been in response to me talking about looks. Even going on about his video 'for guys like me'.


i can confirm what Raven says about his video he does state that an lsp is for protection only. infact everyone should watch it. shows how much he doesnt know about detailing like he says he doesn't like AIO but doesn't know the so called sealant he is using is infact a AIO. his video does more bad then good when it comes to detailing imo


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Another good wax under £100 for the op,Chemical Guys 5050


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

cheekymonkey said:


> check post 195 you will see the quote he used or watch his video on applying sealants and waxes he quotes it in that. would suggest watching the video very entertaining :thumb:


Post 195 is below..



Junkman2008 said:


> And there's where you and I differ in opinion about waxes. Wax is a PROTECTANT.
> 
> All he says is what most people know ie..LSP stands for last stage protection.
> waxes, sealants, all do the same thing, sacrificial layer.
> Not sure you're getting your facts right CM:thumb:


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

spursfan said:


> Post 195 is below..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

spursfan
i asked DJ-XRay if he could see a diffrence between R222 and colli 476
hears what junky replyed



Junkman2008 said:


> And there's where you and I differ in opinion when it comes to sealants and waxes. I don't use a wax or sealant with a "LOOK" on mind! I'm not trying to get a look, I'm going for protection. I have said that countless times in this thread alone, and I have posted a totally separate thread explaining in detail my opinions on waxes and sealants. Had you read ALL of my post in this thread AND watched my video, you would have known this.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

spursfan said:


> All he says is what most people know ie..*LSP stands for last stage protection.*
> waxes, sealants, all do the same thing, sacrificial layer.
> Not sure you're getting your facts right CM:thumb:


I think you'll find it stands for *Last Step Product*!

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...s/24073-lsp-definition-story-behind-term.html

I'm not going to be petty and tell you to get your facts right, but come on man, aren't you sick of this thread already?


----------



## sitalchauhan (Mar 10, 2012)

I really dont understand what all the fuss is about. Junkman is clearly saying that he uses a LSP to protect his paintwork. He relys on the polishing stage to achieve the desired amount of shine and reflectivity.
He is saying that he only uses the LSP to protect this finish he has achieved by polishing. He is not looking for the LSP to modify the finish he achieved by polishing.
He is saying that he cannot notice any worthwhile difference in shinyness between different LSPs in his testing.

I am of the similar opinion as junkman.

Of course you would notice the difference between a really crappy £5 LSP that gets terrible reviews and a LSP worth hundreds that gets glowing reviews. But I believe there are very very very small differences in finish between a decent £30 LSP and the high end LSPs in the range of ~£100+, but you would only ever notice when doing a 50/50 shot with the different LSPs on the same panel side by side. If I covered a 100% corrected car in 476s and another identical 100% corrected car in a high end wax worth £100+, I really doubt anybody could say with certainty which car had which wax.
Some LSPs contain fillers which would obviously produce a better finish on a panel that is not fully corrected when compared to another LSP which did not contain fillers used on the same panel. But I prefer to polish out all imperfections, rather than relying on a LSP (containing fillers) to fill the imperfections.

It comes down to the whole theory of 'diminishing returns'. For me personally, looking from the intention of achieving the best finish on the paintwork, rather than spending £100 on a tub of wax, I would rather spent £30 on a wax that has very good durability and then spend the remaining £70 on better polishing liquids and pads. As I believe you get a better finish by spending more on the polishing stage than by spending more on the LSP stage after the ~£30 price. I feel the popular waxes around the ~£30 price is the 'sweet spot' and spending any more money on a wax isnt worth the minute difference in finish that I believe nobody else would ever see just with the human eye (when not comparing the waxes on the same panel side by side) 

I realise that some people buy expensive waxes for the smell, ease of use, the bragging rights, etc. But I purely buy waxes based on durability and the visible finish they produce. Of course if you already have all of the top high end polishing equipment and have ~£100+ to spend on a wax, you could be more justified in purchasing the expensive waxes in order to get closer to 'the perfect finish', but I personally feel that after the £30 point you are essentially wasting money


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## GMToyota (Mar 14, 2010)

cheekymonkey said:


> GMToyota
> seeing as sheeting/beading is 3rd on your lists of priority's of a lsp maybe you can explane to me what the benefits are


- Sheeting shows me I have a hydrophobic layer on the paint. I believe water/rain/mud/dirt/snow will 'go away' easier and my paint will have less pollution left behind.
- Beading is an easy indicator for me to see how well the protective layer is still there. When beading and sheeting are totally gone, it's time to renew the lsp.

The list of priorities is not always in that strict order, sometimes I pick a wax which is easier to use, but with less durability. That's why I still have Natty's Blue, it's not as durable as say RG55 and doesn't sheet like Glasur, but it's cheaper, really easy to buff off and I love the bubblegum smell.


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## Junkman2008 (May 8, 2009)

sitalchauhan said:


> I really dont understand what all the fuss is about. Junkman is clearly saying that he uses a LSP to protect his paintwork. He relys on the polishing stage to achieve the desired amount of shine and reflectivity.
> He is saying that he only uses the LSP to protect this finish he has achieved by polishing. He is not looking for the LSP to modify the finish he achieved by polishing.
> He is saying that he cannot notice any worthwhile difference in shinyness between different LSPs in his testing.
> 
> ...


You said it mate, better than I could have in a nutshell! :thumb: :thumb:


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## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

-Raven- said:


> I think you'll find it stands for *Last Step Product*!
> 
> http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...s/24073-lsp-definition-story-behind-term.html
> 
> I'm not going to be petty and tell you to get your facts right, but come on man, aren't you sick of this thread already?


You're right, you are being petty, stage and step are identical.
ie....stages equals steps in most peoples opinion, but i guess you would argue that white is really a very light cream colour:lol:


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

spursfan said:


> You're right, you are being petty, stage and step are identical.
> ie....stages equals steps in most peoples opinion, but i guess you would argue that white is really a very light cream colour:lol:


It was the P bit he was saying about mate :thumb:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

-Raven- said:


> I think you'll find it stands for *Last Step Product*!
> 
> http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...s/24073-lsp-definition-story-behind-term.html
> 
> I'm not going to be petty and tell you to get your facts right, but come on man, aren't you sick of this thread already?


Nearly 7500 views,i'd say people are pretty interested in this thread.:doublesho


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

GMToyota said:


> - Sheeting shows me I have a hydrophobic layer on the paint. I believe water/rain/mud/dirt/snow will 'go away' easier and my paint will have less pollution left behind.


Actually, a hydrophobic layer causes beading, not sheeting. Hydrophobia means there's repellency of water, causing the water to turn into beads, instead of making it sheet.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Nearly 7500 views,i'd say people are pretty interested in this thread.:doublesho


good entertainment value anyway!

I wonder what the OP decided on in the end? :lol:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

spursfan said:


> You're right, you are being petty, stage and step are identical.
> ie....stages equals steps in most peoples opinion, but i guess you would argue that white is really a very light cream colour:lol:





rayner said:


> It was the P bit he was saying about mate :thumb:


Lol! :thumb:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

GMToyota said:


> - Sheeting shows me I have a hydrophobic layer on the paint. I believe water/rain/mud/dirt/snow will 'go away' easier and my paint will have less pollution left behind.
> - Beading is an easy indicator for me to see how well the protective layer is still there. When beading and sheeting are totally gone, it's time to renew the lsp.
> 
> The list of priorities is not always in that strict order, sometimes I pick a wax which is easier to use, but with less durability. That's why I still have Natty's Blue, it's not as durable as say RG55 and doesn't sheet like Glasur, but it's cheaper, really easy to buff off and I love the bubblegum smell.


but just because a product doesn,t bead doesn't mean there is no protection. a none protected paint can sheet and bead so can give you false readings.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

-Raven- said:


> good entertainment value anyway!
> 
> I wonder what the OP decided on in the end? :lol:


Lol yeah i agree,definetley good entertainment mate . He Probably settled on a bit of steak,with victoria wax relish,hahaha


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

-Raven- said:


> I wonder what the OP decided on in the end? :lol:


never to ask the same question again :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## GMToyota (Mar 14, 2010)

Ewald said:


> Actually, a hydrophobic layer causes beading, not sheeting. Hydrophobia means there's repellency of water, causing the water to turn into beads, instead of making it sheet.


I'm not a chemist and English is not my best language, so I try my best to make people understand me. I think in layman's terms: If water 'goes away' from the paint, the paint imo 'does not like' that water. In my English I'll call that hydrophobic, a term that I actually took from this forum . You can correct me and call it by the correct technical term, there must be some here who will find that interesting.


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

GMToyota, if water 'goes away' from the paint (hydrophobia), it forms beads (drops). If water is 'atracted' by the paint (hydrophillia), it sheets. Water in beads has much less contact with the paint as sheets of water have.


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## GMToyota (Mar 14, 2010)

cheekymonkey said:


> but just because a product doesn,t bead doesn't mean there is no protection.....


Correct. If the paint doesn't bead, there might still be protection yes. But if it doesn't bead *and* sheet, chances are very high the protection is dead or very low. I don't know many popular lsp-products that actually protect without signs of beading and sheeting. Perhaps Aquartz? (the very first one that you had to apply in two stages and heat up afterwards).



> .. a none protected paint can sheet and bead so can give you false readings.


Correct. If it's beading and sheeting, it's not always a sign of protection. e.g. right after a full polishing session the paint also beads. I believe that comes from the oils in the polish. I also washed an unprotected car with ONR and during a rain a couple of hours later, it sheeted very well since the ONR-polymers were still present on the paint. That's why you should always keep in mind that the paint's beading and sheeting properties don't always tell the right picture.

Keep the paint's detail history in mind to come to a conclusion when observing water behaviour on the car. If you know the history, you can most likely explain what's going on and where the water behaviour is coming from. Then you can make judgements on the status of the protective layer.


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## GMToyota (Mar 14, 2010)

Ewald said:


> GMToyota, if water 'goes away' from the paint (hydrophobia), it forms beads (drops). If water is 'atracted' by the paint (hydrophillia), it sheets. Water in beads has much less contact with the paint as sheets of water have.


.. That's very interesting.. .. If paint is unprotected and water stays on the bonnet like a big pool, is that also hydrophilic?


----------



## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Ewald said:


> GMToyota, if water 'goes away' from the paint (hydrophobia), it forms beads (drops). If water is 'atracted' by the paint (hydrophillia), it sheets. Water in beads has much less contact with the paint as sheets of water have.


Which do you prefer ewald?,just out of curiosity mate.


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## sitalchauhan (Mar 10, 2012)

GMToyota said:


> .. That's very interesting.. .. If paint is unprotected and water stays on the bonnet like a big pool, is that also hydrophilic?


If the water pooled in a large pool then it would be neither hydrophobic or hydrophilic. Hydrophobic surface would form lots of small droplets. Hydrophilic surface would spread the water flat very thinly in a sheet over the whole panel surface and continue to get thinner until the water dries out. This video might help:


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Trip tdi said:


> I have to hear it from the Horses mouth
> 
> I'll wait for Junkman's on here :driver:


he wont do that he never answers any question ask of him. He just answers who he wants, when it comes down to back up what he says he dodges it better the a rodeo clown :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Which do you prefer ewald?,just out of curiosity mate.


I do like the sight of some good beading. Most of the waxes I make myself are hydrophobic, and do that.
But, I'm quite aware, that after the drops have dried, there are a lot of ugly spots on the roof of my car, which I don't like.

It's good when water runs of off the car quickly, as that means some of the dirt goes with it too, and you don't get the ugly spots. But, I'm not particularly impressed with the sight of it.

So, if I can get my own waxes to sheet better, without sacrificing looks, I'd probably do that. But, I don't care enough to actually work on that.


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## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

cheekymonkey said:


> he wont do that he never answers any question ask of him. He just answers who he wants, when it comes down to back up what he says he dodges it better the a rodeo clown :lol::lol::lol:


Yanks like rodeo's, Yee ha:lol:


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

sitalchauhan said:


> I really dont understand what all the fuss is about. Junkman is clearly saying that he uses a LSP to protect his paintwork. He relys on the polishing stage to achieve the desired amount of shine and reflectivity.
> He is saying that he only uses the LSP to protect this finish he has achieved by polishing. He is not looking for the LSP to modify the finish he achieved by polishing.
> He is saying that he cannot notice any worthwhile difference in shinyness between different LSPs in his testing.
> 
> ...


this is were some are not listening you dont have to pay £100s to get a good wax infact the op was after a wax under £100, no i see black cars going around and know by the sterile shine its a cheap sealant not a good wax, what sealant it is, is another think, i would bet there are others who can tell the same when cars past them. So does 476 look like vics concours no nothing like it there chalk and cheese, junky clames all lsp are the same no matter how much they cost there just protection. i and others disagree the also finish the paint with the disired look we want. He also states in his video that no mater what colour they say you lsp is for is rubbish and to quote him, if a lsp looks good on dark paint it will all so look good on light paint, if a lsp looks bad on dark paint it will also look bad on light paint, which is a load of rubbish some lsp's suit dark some suit light. My problem is he is misinforming novices imo


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> but just because a product doesn,t bead doesn't mean there is no protection. a none protected paint can sheet and bead so can give you false readings.


Which side is protected?


----------



## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

Is it a trick question lol


If the bonnet is completely clean then I'd say the right hand side


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

i'll go left


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Neither


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> i'll go left


You would be right the right hand side had just been wet sanded and compounded back but not finished as it started to rain but it had been ipa'd


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## kempe (Jan 9, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> i'll go left


Left side had been waxed a few weeks before


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

So for best protection we should wet sand and ipA then?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junior Bear said:


> So for best protection we should wet sand and ipA then?


its nothing to do with protection, its the water behavior were on about, what importance it has


----------



## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Another good wax for less than a ton,is Mer Hybrid Wax, £15 6 months protection fact.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Another good wax for less than a ton,is Mer Hybrid Wax, £15 6 months protection fact.


I still think TW Ice Paste is the best I've stumbled across whilst not expecting much 

I'll have to try a £££ wax at some point, but I'd be afraid to ask for recommendations :lol:


----------



## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Another good wax for less than a ton,is Mer Hybrid Wax, £15 6 months protection fact.


its a hybrid not a wax :thumb:


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

cheekymonkey said:


> its nothing to do with protection, its the water behavior were on about, what importance it has


Ah I get ya. Lol was gonna say

I think when a protection product displays water beading like most of them do its good, because it is atleast an indication that a layer is protecting the paint.

How could we all tell if they Didnt?


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> its a hybrid not a wax :thumb:


Yeah but it's called hybrid wax ,it's still got carnauba in it, it's more of thick liquid wax, try it unless you have already.Bargain if you ask me


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Junior Bear said:


> Ah I get ya. Lol was gonna say
> 
> I think when a protection product displays water beading like most of them do its good, because it is atleast an indication that a layer is protecting the paint.
> 
> How could we all tell if they Didnt?


thats the hole point just because it beads doesn't mean there is protection there. fresh paint can bead and sheet, some lsp's have poor beading and sheeting, 1 such is clearkote nuba wax. Infact when the beading has stopped the CK wax is still there protecting the paint. I reapply when i no longer like the look, when the lsp has degraded so much its lost the look that it adds, whether it is beading or not.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

DJ.X-Ray said:


> Yeah but it's called hybrid wax ,it's still got carnauba in it, it's more of thick liquid wax, try it unless you have already.Bargain if you ask me


yea i have tried it, not really imprest personally look wise, nothing like a good nuba wax. personally theres not many if any liquid or thick waxes that can contain enough wax to be classed a wax, the only 1 i like the look of is ck nuba wax. just because it says it contains nuba means nothing, its a marketing stunt. It may only contain 1% nuba


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

cheekymonkey said:


> yea i have tried it, not really imprest personally look wise, nothing like a good nuba wax. personally theres not many if any liquid or thick waxes that can contain enough wax to be classed a wax, the only 1 i like the look of is ck nuba wax. just because it says it contains nuba means nothing, its a marketing stunt. It may only contain 1% nuba


True enough.it's durable though


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## 20vKarlos (Aug 8, 2009)

best wax under £100.... the one thats really good but only £99.99, I've found that one is a really good wax.

Sorry guys. I had to. :lol:

Everone has their own prefered Brand, or prefered way a product works or lays/reacts to water.

it really is a try as many as you can sort of thing.
I only ever buy wax under £50 so i cant really help


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

20vKarlos said:


> best wax under £100.... the one thats really good but only £99.99, I've found that one is a really good wax.
> 
> Sorry guys. I had to. :lol:
> 
> ...


but a few i like alot are less then £50


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