# More Mac questions



## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

I've sorted out the issues I had with installing programs. Firstly it was because it really is so simple, I was expecting to have to do more, and also because not all programs install the same way. Anyway, I'm on top of it now thanks to all the help here :thumb:

OK, some questions about the interface....

1. Is there a Mac equivalent of drag-copy? On Windows and Linux if you hold the Control key down while dragging some highlighted text then, when you drop it, it copies rather than moves. Can't find a way to do it on Macs. I'm talking about copyng text, not files in Finder.

2. The Dock. On Windows and Linux, if an app has more than one window open there is a button for each on the task bar - or a group on one button. On Macs this doesn't happen which means that you can't tell how many windows there are. Typical example; when Firefox dowloads a file it opens a small Download window yet there is still only one FF icon in the Dock. The ony way i've found to get to the d/l window if it's hidden is through Exposé Is this the only way? The d/l windows doesn't show in Cmd-TAB either.

3. The red button at the left of the title bar of a window. On Window and Linux this button quits the app - same as File->Quit or Alt-F4, but this doesn't seem to be the case on Macs. For example, if I close a Preview window, the Preview menu bar still shows until I select another window. It seems as though it closes the window but leaves the app running. This is a problem with Firefox as I have it set to open the set of tabs that were open when I exited last time. If I do File->Quit then restart it, that is what happens, but if I click the red button, then click the icon in the Dock, it opens FF with a single tab at my homepage - this is what would happen if you open another FF window when one is already open, which suggests that FF is still running, but with an 'invisible' window.

4. I still haven't found out what the key between the right-hand Cmd key and the left arrow key is for (MacBook keyboard). It has like a ^ symbol with a line over it


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## withoutabix (May 28, 2008)

not sure about 1 and 2 but for 3 if you wanna completely quit and application the quick key is command and Q it shuts the program down and doesnt keep all your programs running in the background.

number 4 i have know idea as im on imac not macbook


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## akimel (Oct 25, 2008)

parish said:


> 1. Is there a Mac equivalent of drag-copy? On Windows and Linux if you hold the Control key down while dragging some highlighted text then, when you drop it, it copies rather than moves. Can't find a way to do it on Macs. I'm talking about copyng text, not files in Finder.


I don't use this function, as I find it easier to simply copy a text (Comand-C) and then paste it ((Command-V). But I think you can do this by highlighting the text and then dragging it, while holding down the Option key. See if that works for you.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

4. the key between CMD & left arrow = ALT key (same on the other side)

eg 
ALT + 2 = €
ALT + 3 = #
ALT + 5 = ∞
ALT + R = ®
ALT + W = ∑ ....


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## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

akimel said:


> I don't use this function, as I find it easier to simply copy a text (Comand-C) and then paste it ((Command-V). But I think you can do this by highlighting the text and then dragging it, while holding down the Option key. See if that works for you.


Nope - that moves (cut 'n' paste).



Bigpikle said:


> 4. the key between CMD & left arrow = ALT key (same on the other side)
> 
> eg
> ALT + 2 = €
> ...


Not on mine - it seems to act as a Return/Enter key. In fact, the same symbol - the ^ with the line over it - is on the bottom of the Enter key too 

Useful tip though - there's full set of extra characters mapped to the (left hand) Alt/Option key, better than Windows or Linux :thumb:


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## akimel (Oct 25, 2008)

parish said:


> Nope - that moves (cut 'n' paste).


Hmmm, that's curious. I've tried it for both Word and TextEdit documents, and in both it works.


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## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

akimel said:


> Hmmm, that's curious. I've tried it for both Word and TextEdit documents, and in both it works.


Well it don't work here in Firefox. I want it so if I split a quote to reply to each point in-line I want to select and drag-copy the opening QUOTE tag.

Hmm you're in the US yes? Maybe it's a US/UK keyboard difference?

I've found someone else who has the same issues with (UK) MBP keyboards - http://hexmen.com/blog/2007/02/i-hate-my-macbook-pro/ - seems this mysterious key between the right Command and Home key is, in fact, a second Enter key!!!! As the guy who wrote in the above link says...

_Why does a US keyboard have a second enter-key labelled 'enter', while UK keyboard are labelled with a sideways 'next track' icon? Even the help pages for Apple's keyboard shortcuts use words. What use are meaningless icons? (Come to think of it, what use is a second enter-key?)_

Why indeed 

*Edit* Just tried it in Textedit and it does work. Guess that it's an application-specific feature? Odd, but it's a universal thing in both Windows and Linux. Oh well, I'm sure i'll soon adapt/learn new ways to do things. no great showstopper.


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## JasonRS (Aug 8, 2006)

Funny, but my MBP has only one enter key, I have a pre unibody with silver keys like this.

Pic from here.


__
https://flic.kr/p/304301165

2. I press the F3 button and that shows me all active windows.

3. The red button quits the window, not the app. It's the equivalent of command+W.


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## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

The key circled acts as an Enter key on mine and the same symbol is also printed on the bottom of the main Enter key.

What does this key do on yours?

*Edit* Mine's also pre-unibody and I believe that the circled key is labelled 'ENTER' on US keyboards


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## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

JasonRS said:


> 2. I press the F3 button and that shows me all active windows.
> 
> 3. The red button quits the window, not the app. It's the equivalent of command+W.


2. F3 does nothing on mine (activates Find in Firefox)

3. Thanks :thumb:


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## Scotty Pro (Nov 12, 2008)

In System Preferences there is an option to map shortcut keys the way you want under keyboard and mouse.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

very strange stuff - I hate US keyboards as all my work laptops have come with them and they really annoy me trying to find the right shortcuts. Set the language to UK and you lose some useful keys I have never managed to track down 

I have a new macbook so maybe mine has a different keyboard layout to yours - sorry if I mislead you


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

parish said:


> I've sorted out the issues I had with installing programs. Firstly it was because it really is so simple, I was expecting to have to do more, and also because not all programs install the same way. Anyway, I'm on top of it now thanks to all the help here :thumb:
> 
> OK, some questions about the interface....
> 
> ...


1. Command and drag/drop = move file. For simple copy of text, highlight, drag and drop on whatever text application page you're using.

2. Command and ` cycles through windows of the App at front.
F10 shows you the windows available in the front App, whereas F9 is all Apps open, excluding hidden ones (Command and H to hide).
Whilst using the Command and Tab function, when you stop over a selected App by releasing the Tab key, and still holding down the Command key, you can press Q for quit, and H to hide it, before selecting whichever App you want to work with next, with the Tab or arrow keys.
Command/Shift/Tab cycles through the Apps launched in reverse direction - right to left.

3. The red traffic light button, closes the window or quits the App - depends on the specific App. If you want to quit - Command and Q is the easiest method.

4. Pass - must be specific to the 'Books. If you want to find out what does what, the simplest way, is to open TextEdit, and hit the Alt/Shift keys with the qwerty and number keys to see what symbols are produced.


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## JasonRS (Aug 8, 2006)

parish said:


> 2. F3 does nothing on mine (activates Find in Firefox)


Your keyboard is different to mine, on my MBP (July 08, British Keyboard) that key is another ALT key.

Do your function keys have little symbols on them?

Try Function + F3 ( I have mine set to effectively have the Fn locked on)


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## JasonRS (Aug 8, 2006)

You may also find this handy

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1343


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## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

PJS said:


> 1. Command and drag/drop = move file. For simple copy of text, highlight, drag and drop on whatever text application page you're using.


Nope, not on mine. Dragging and dropping highlighted text moves it not copies.

*Edit*: After reading the link Jason posted, it turns out that Option-drag does a copy. Just tried it and it works in textedit, but not in the message composition box in FF - another app-dependent 'feature' it appears :wall:



PJS said:


> 2. Command and ` cycles through windows of the App at front.
> F10 shows you the windows available in the front App, whereas F9 is all Apps open, excluding hidden ones (Command and H to hide).
> Whilst using the Command and Tab function, when you stop over a selected App by releasing the Tab key, and still holding down the Command key, you can press Q for quit, and H to hide it, before selecting whichever App you want to work with next, with the Tab or arrow keys.
> Command/Shift/Tab cycles through the Apps launched in reverse direction - right to left.


:thumb:



PJS said:


> 3. The red traffic light button, closes the window or quits the App - depends on the specific App. If you want to quit - Command and Q is the easiest method.


Ah! So it's application dependent? Hmm, not good methinks 



JasonRS said:


> Your keyboard is different to mine, on my MBP (July 08, British Keyboard) that key is another ALT key.


Huh, how can it be different? Mine's a MBP with a UK keyboard. Surely Apple don't change things like that?



JasonRS said:


> Do your function keys have little symbols on them?
> 
> Try Function + F3 ( I have mine set to effectively have the Fn locked on)


Yes, but I've changed the setting so they have their 'normal' functions and I have to use Fn to use the preset functions like speaker volume and screen brightness.

This is fecking stupid - different keyboard layouts and key actions, something as basic as drag and drop *copies* don't appear to work - or work in a very odd way. The added problem being the Help - it's just pages with text - a few pics and diagrams would help - and links that go off in all directions. A tree-structured ennu at the side would be a massive improvement. I love my MBP and OS X but Apple have really let themselves down with the documentation/help :devil:

Here's a shot of my whole keyboard. This is a UK keyboard yes? Don't know how old this MBP is. It's a refurb that I only bought a couple of weeks ago so not that old I suspect.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

parish said:


> Nope, not on mine. Dragging and dropping highlighted text moves it not copies.
> 
> *Edit*: After reading the link Jason posted, it turns out that Option-drag does a copy. Just tried it and it works in textedit, but not in the message composition box in FF - another app-dependent 'feature' it appears :wall:


Ah, if that's the case, then you really have to blame Firefox for not doing as OS X does elsewhere with drag/drop highlighted text.

Except this was posted from Firefox, using the suggested method.
Hmm....something you're not doing, or not doing right?
No Command or Option button usage - just highlight, grab and drop using F9 or Command & Tab.


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## ian2403 (Sep 27, 2007)

> 4. I still haven't found out what the key between the right-hand Cmd key and the left arrow key is for (MacBook keyboard). It has like a ^ symbol with a line over it


The key is actually "enter" and harks back to the good old days with big keyboards and numberic number pads! On a full size keyboard it would be the very bottom right key underneath the + key on the numeric keypad. In OS X it is the same key as Fn+Return, but in reality doesn't actually do very much as Apple treat it as seperate to a normal Return key for some un-godly reason!

You might have noticed that the return key in OS X doesn't activate a highlighted button in a dialogue box? The Enter button does though and that's about as useful as it gets! Better to remap it to something else as others have suggested.

Hope this helps!


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## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

PJS said:


> Ah, if that's the case, then you really have to blame Firefox for not doing as OS X does elsewhere with drag/drop highlighted text.


Seems to be the case - which is odd as FF normally follows the convention of the OS its running on. i'll post a question on the Mozillazine forums.

*Edit* Yep, known bug in FF3 (but not FF2) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=434210



PJS said:


> Except this was posted from Firefox, using the suggested method.
> Hmm....something you're not doing, or not doing right?
> No Command or Option button usage - just highlight, grab and drop using F9 or Command & Tab.


Nah, i don't mean drag-copy between apps, I mean within FF. For example, I've replied to this by splitting your quoted reply to answer each point separately which means I had to copy _[QUOTE="PJS, post: 1297559, member: 9034"]_ and insert it in front of 'Except this was....' so it quotes the second part. In FF under both Windows and Linux (KDE) I can select, drag, and if I hold the Control key down when I drop it will copy the text. That's what I can't do in OS X - but as I've found, it can be done *within* textedit using the Option key instead of Control, it just doesn't do so in FF.


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## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

ian2403 said:


> The key is actually "enter" and harks back to the good old days with big keyboards and numberic number pads! On a full size keyboard it would be the very bottom right key underneath the + key on the numeric keypad. In OS X it is the same key as Fn+Return, but in reality doesn't actually do very much as Apple treat it as seperate to a normal Return key for some un-godly reason!
> 
> You might have noticed that the return key in OS X doesn't activate a highlighted button in a dialogue box? The Enter button does though and that's about as useful as it gets! Better to remap it to something else as others have suggested.
> 
> Hope this helps!


It does indeed - thanks :thumb:

Bloody stupid though.

What is really p155ing me off is the fact that they put these weird symbols on keys (On US keyboards they put the words 'Option' 'Command' and, for this key you've just explained, 'Enter') yet in the Mac Help they use the words :rolleyes' Took me a while to work out which was 'Option' and which was 'Command' - found a website with a list of keyboard shortcuts that had glyphs of the symbols. You would have thought that Apple could afford to include an A5 piece of paper with a diagram of the keyboard labelling the keys FFS!

Guess I'll remap it to something useful.


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## JasonRS (Aug 8, 2006)

parish said:


>


Mine is different, it doesn't have the extra number keys and it's got another alt key between the cursor and the right hand cmd key.

My function keys have different labels too.

I don't have the little apple logo's either, just cmd and the swirly logo (it's probably got a name, but I don't know it)

It's odd that you've only just got the MBP, as the apple logo on the commmand key was dropped at the end of 2007.

What's the model indetifier for yours? (apple / about this mac / more info)


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## VixMix (May 8, 2008)

I've been on the macbook for a year and I still get it wrong sometimes 

Looking at your keyboard is fn F7 a show windows? I use "hot corners" a lot. I don't have my macbook on me (I'm at work) so I can't remember how to define hot corners (perhaps help search will help you). Basically you can define actions for each corner of the screen. I have the top right corner as a show windows - which shrinks each active window so you can see what you've got on your desktop. My bottom right corner is a blank screen. Just slide your mouse into the corner to carry out the desired action! I use it all the time!


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

parish said:


> You would have thought that Apple could afford to include an A5 piece of paper with a diagram of the keyboard labelling the keys FFS!


*ahem*
Sys Prefs>International>Input Menu>Show input in menu bar - ✓
From the now showing Input menu beside the clock (top right) open menu with left click, and select Show Keyboard Viewer.
Press and hold Option and Shift keys independently and together to see the list of characters. More like the tick there from Show Character Palette, with storing in Favourites for future use.

Sys Prefs>International>Language>British English - grab and move to top of list.
Log out and in for effect to take hold.

Hope that helps.


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## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

JasonRS said:


> Mine is different, it doesn't have the extra number keys and it's got another alt key between the cursor and the right hand cmd key.
> 
> My function keys have different labels too.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, no wonder I'm 

To add to the confusion, i've just ordered a wireless Apple keyboard 



JasonRS said:


> What's the model indetifier for yours? (apple / about this mac / more info)


MacBookPro3,1


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## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

VixMix said:


> Looking at your keyboard is fn F7 a show windows?


Not sure, it's got two overlapping rectangles on it and when I press Fn-F7 it kind of shuffles the windows, however, I am running it dual-screen - laptop screen and my CRT - and it seems to be swapping what's displayed on the two screens.



VixMix said:


> I use "hot corners" a lot. I don't have my macbook on me (I'm at work) so I can't remember how to define hot corners (perhaps help search will help you). Basically you can define actions for each corner of the screen. I have the top right corner as a show windows - which shrinks each active window so you can see what you've got on your desktop. My bottom right corner is a blank screen. Just slide your mouse into the corner to carry out the desired action! I use it all the time!


Yep, using Hot Corners:

Top Left - Expose
Top Right - Widgets
Bottom Left - Spaces
Bottom Right - Screensaver


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## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

PJS said:


> *ahem*
> Sys Prefs>International>Input Menu>Show input in menu bar - ✓
> From the now showing Input menu beside the clock (top right) open menu with left click, and select Show Keyboard Viewer.
> Press and hold Option and Shift keys independently and together to see the list of characters. More like the tick there from Show Character Palette, with storing in Favourites for future use.
> ...


Yes, it does, thanks :thumb:

On the keyboard viewer when I press the mysterious key between the right-Command and Home keys it just highlights the normal Enter key on the diagram.


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## JasonRS (Aug 8, 2006)

parish said:


> MacBookPro3,1


That's an old one then, late 07.


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## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

JasonRS said:


> That's an old one then, late 07.


That explains why it was so heavily discounted then.

Assuming it's been owned by someone for the best part of a year it reflects well on Apple's refurb programme as I was expecting a few signs of use - minor scratches and scuffs etc. - but I can't find a single thing wrong with it. I doubt a brand new one is in any better condition.


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## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

Well, just to add to the confusion, today my bluetooth keyboard arrived and it's a different layout, more like the ones others have been describing. The second enter key on my MBP is indeed a second Alt key on this one, and the F-keys are different....


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## JasonRS (Aug 8, 2006)

Yep, that's the layout on my MBP.


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