# Most protective LSP?



## Killahertz (Mar 8, 2007)

As above, really. Wax or sealant. What LSP provides the most protection (looks/finish are secondary)?.

Why?. Simply because of trees, well, one tree actually. I've suffered leaf litter, sap, and the obvious consequences of it being an ideal perch. However, it turns out that it's a crab apple, and lately the fruit has been falling onto the roof and bonnet of my car. The fallen fruit is often half eaten and/or rotting. I remove it as soon as possible, but the acidic residue needs little time to eats it's way into my basic LSP's (Natty's Blue, usually, and CG Wet Mirror).

My very limited experience would suggest Collinite 476, but are there other (better) solutions?.


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## MickCTR (Mar 4, 2006)

I have 476 and its great. Just this minute been looking at the 845 too (although i don't know why ). There are plenty of good waxes about though that offer great protection!


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## -ROM- (Feb 23, 2007)

Jetseal 109 has my vote


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## prelude_stan (Mar 30, 2007)

I'd have to suggest Jetseal109 as well


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## EliteCarCare (Aug 25, 2006)

Collinite by far.......... and it lasts! :thumb:


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## Dean_82 (Feb 21, 2007)

EliteCarCare said:


> Collinite by far.......... and it lasts! :thumb:


Although I haven't used any of the other products suggested I'd say Collinite 915.....Jus check out the beadage With my Mr2 turbo topped with (currently) 1 coat of 915....lol....Just another excuse to show off my beadage:lol:


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## Lespaul (May 23, 2006)

How about 2 coats of Jetseal 109 topped with 2 coats of Colinite 915, thats what my Sorento will have on it when its finished :thumb: 

Darren


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

I think Zaino would be up there with the best of them


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

EliteCarCare said:


> Collinite by far.......... and it lasts! :thumb:


Got to agree with that, I haven't personally found a sealent which lasts as long as Collinite does and I have tried many sealents (just haven't found one I particularly like yet, 1Z Glanz would be my favourite though)...

But.....



WHIZZER said:


> I think Zaino would be up there with the best of them


Haven'te tried this yet and it does have excellent durability reports.

All told though, I'd *personally* say that the sealents have greater durabilty thing is a bit of a myth, espeicially if you look at Collinite and ***** durability, I haven't seen a sealent match that yet. Just my personal view though.


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Zaino will pee all over Collinite in durability stakes, having used both through winter grime and plenty of miles, Zaino easily lasted twice as long as Collinite 915.

If it's durability I want, I always reach for Zaino.


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## Jace (Oct 26, 2005)

Lespaul said:


> How about 2 coats of Jetseal 109 topped with 2 coats of Colinite 915, thats what my Sorento will have on it when its finished :thumb:
> 
> Darren


Good combo, the golf currently has a coat of Polycharged JS109 & 915 on it :thumb:


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

PPS or R2000 hands down.


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

Neil_S said:


> Zaino will pee all over Collinite in durability stakes, having used both through winter grime and plenty of miles, Zaino easily lasted twice as long as Collinite 915.
> 
> If it's durability I want, I always reach for Zaino.


:thumb: agreed... the durability is shocking... I have got ultima turn up today and thats supposed to be very good for durability ... will know more when tested :thumb:


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> All told though, I'd *personally* say that the sealents have greater durabilty thing is a bit of a myth, espeicially if you look at Collinite and ***** durability, I haven't seen a sealent match that yet. Just my personal view though.


Don't know about that, I can get perhaps 7 coats of NXT or similar on in the time it takes to get 2 coats of Vic's on, and it'll last about 6 months at least.
Some people seem to have problems getting sealants to last though, don't know why.


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

7 coats of NXT is a waste of time... you'd get 3-4 coats on then what your putting on you will be taking straight off again... 

I've seen Zaino / DP Paint Shield / Collinite last in excess of three months... Zaino + ZFX is supposed to be good for 9mnths + ... this seems to be the case so far as am watching progress on a customers car...


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Doesn't seem like it, you can still see a difference between 4 and 7 coats, it goes on that thin you can hardly see when its dried enough to buff off...


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

PhillipM said:


> Don't know about that, I can get perhaps 7 coats of NXT or similar on in the time it takes to get 2 coats of Vic's on, and it'll last about 6 months at least.
> Some people seem to have problems getting sealants to last though, don't know why.


Yes, but you've used seven coats... that kind of durability I can get from two or three layers of 476S... In fact I did last winter... 

Some sealents do last well - EGP, 1Z Glanz... But sealents are marketed as having durability leaps and bounds better than waxes, and waxes are claimed to have weak durability and I simply dont find this the case. Zaino aside (haven't yet tried it), waxes seem more than capable of matching and exceeding sealent durability.


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

Turtle Wax Gloss-Guard 'top coat sealer'. I’ve had 18 months, although TW site states 12 months. Looks great, very easy to use, cheap, sheets water.


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Dave KG said:


> Yes, but you've used seven coats... that kind of durability I can get from two or three layers of 476S... In fact I did last winter...


Yep, but can you get 7 coats of 476S on?
NXT goes on so thin you can get lots of coats on, and you can probably get 7 coats of NXT on and have sat down and had a drink by the time you have 2-3 layers of 476S....


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

One of the great benefits with Zaino over Collinite is it keeps 90+% of its look throughout it's life, where as Collinite will dull substantially.

The only other LSP's that seem to offer this are the uber expensive waxes


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

I would have a look at Fire Glaze if you can still get it cheap off eBay.


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## Dean_82 (Feb 21, 2007)

This zaino sounds awesome....any linkies chaps?


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## Peter D (Oct 26, 2005)

The only thing that comes close to Zaino (IMHO) that I've tried is Klasse AIO with three thin coats of SG. I suppose you could top this with a couple of layers of Collinite


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## spitfire (Feb 10, 2007)

Killahertz said:


> As above, really. Wax or sealant. What LSP provides the most protection (looks/finish are secondary)?.
> 
> Why?. Simply because of trees, well, one tree actually. I've suffered leaf litter, sap, and the obvious consequences of it being an ideal perch. However, it turns out that it's a crab apple, and lately the fruit has been falling onto the roof and bonnet of my car. The fallen fruit is often half eaten and/or rotting. I remove it as soon as possible, but the acidic residue needs little time to eats it's way into my basic LSP's (Natty's Blue, usually, and CG Wet Mirror).
> 
> My very limited experience would suggest Collinite 476, but are there other (better) solutions?.


Forget the wax and the sealants and build a carport. :thumb:


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Dean_82 said:


> This zaino sounds awesome....any linkies chaps?


I've done a bit of a guide which will explain what the products are :thumb:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=30674


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Dean_82 said:


> This zaino sounds awesome....any linkies chaps?


PM Steveo3002


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## Killahertz (Mar 8, 2007)

spitfire said:


> Forget the wax and the sealants and build a carport. :thumb:


Trust me, if that were an option it'd have been done already 

Anyways, thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I'm erring towards the Collinte, which i've used before (and disliked - difficult to use, and 'powdery' - although that's probably poor technique rather than product). However, as an alternative I think i'll give the Jetseal a whirl - I like and use CG products, and it's a well reviewed product.

:thumb:


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## waxy (Feb 27, 2006)

How durable a product is,particularly sealants,and how much protection a product offers,are different things.I have proved to myself many times over,that a quality Carnauba wax(Collinite,*****) if properly layered,does offer greater protection against bird bombs,tree sap etc,than any synthetic sealant.I feel that the quality of protection that is afforded by a product,is much more important than how long a particular product may appear to remain on the paint surface.


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

Klasse Sealant Glaze/Carlack LLS last amazingly well.


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## Chris_4536 (Sep 20, 2006)

7 layers of NXT is a joke! It contains cleaners so if you are putting layers that soon after each other, then you will be simply removing the previous layer(s)


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

waxy said:


> How durable a product is,particularly sealants,and how much protection a product offers,are different things.I have proved to myself many times over,that a quality Carnauba wax(Collinite,*****) if properly layered,does offer greater protection against bird bombs,tree sap etc,than any synthetic sealant.I feel that the quality of protection that is afforded by a product,is much more important than how long a particular product may appear to remain on the paint surface.


Thats a very good point, I recall reading somewhere about waxes giving greater protection than synthetics with some types of contaminant, although in the years I have been waxing cars I have found that if a contaminant is sufficiently potent, it will eat any LSP quickly.


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## H-M3 (Jul 13, 2006)

Zaino ticks all boxes for me, I have been using over 1 1/2 year. top stuff bit expensive but lasts ages and little goes far.
jus my 2p worth.:thumb:


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

I don´t have any good experience with Zaino durability  

A good sealant will destroy all the carnauba waxes since they don´t protect against degreasers.


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

The strength of natural waxes is water absorbtion, leaving the car looking just washed when dry

This is a pretty heated area of detailing at the moment with all these companies claiming incredible shine and protection and wax vs sealant

From my years of experience in the Australian climate, I found these worked the best

JW Prime A & Acrylic Jett trigger - 7 months
JW Prime A & Fireglaze double strength pro polish - 11 months (sheets great)
DG 601 machine applied then Fireglaze - 12 months
Wolfgang DGPS & 4 star UPP x 2 - six months
Driven to Perfection Auto Polish x 2 coats - 12 months
Zaino - 8 months
Ultra Gloss superpolish topped with fireglaze - 8 months
Omikron Bodyseal (bulk brand)- six months
Collinite 915 - 9 months
Aquawax & Hydro - 3 months

Best protection from everything, great sheeting and extra shine, nothing etching through = Fireglaze double strength
I am about to buy glare pro polish to once and for all see if it will work as they say or close
Along with that the titanium sealant from visomax, the new Gtechniq.com C1 nano (quartz based) sealant and toughseal step 1 and 2 will be coming after that.

Step 1 sure does give an insane depth and remove marks greatly.

The most important thing is a damn good base
Whether it be carlack 68 yellow, Prime Acrylic, DG 601, menzerna acrylic jacket, driven to perfection or zaino, that is what gives the durability

Today I put carlack 68 yellow and fireglaze DS on a brand new subaru liberty wagon after hand polishing it and tomorrow I'm finishing off with collinite 915 for total contaminant plus UV, water and acid rain protection

If it's maximum durability you want, get an approved applicator to apply nyalic to your paint. Nothing will get through that for ten years. It's a clear laquer protective paint


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

9 Months from Collinite 915? Works well in Aus then, because with lots of driving in a rotten british winter I can just about get 3 months. The Zaino easily did 6-7 months, but I got tired and stripped it, would have gone on.

Interesting though, I would guess some LSP's work better in different climates?


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## EliteCarCare (Aug 25, 2006)

Neil_S said:


> 9 Months from Collinite 915? Works well in Aus then, because with lots of driving in a rotten british winter I can just about get 3 months. The Zaino easily did 6-7 months, but I got tired and stripped it, would have gone on.
> 
> Interesting though, I would guess some LSP's work better in different climates?


I've had over 6 months from #915 over here, like you, the only reason I stipped it off was to try something else! :thumb:


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## Candypants (Jul 18, 2007)

How do you measure the length of protection ?

Is this an all over car assessment ?

Is it visual or something more objective such as an analytical tool ?

I'd say Aussie conditions are generally very tough for a sealant/LSP

Also, what do some car shampoos add to a sealant ?


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## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

Dave KG said:


> Got to agree with that, I haven't personally found a sealent which lasts as long as Collinite does and I have tried many sealents (just haven't found one I particularly like yet, 1Z Glanz would be my favourite though)...
> 
> But.....
> 
> ...


One of the advantages of a polymer is its high melting point (350 oF) wereas Carnauba wax is 183 oF

Got to agree with the choice of Collinite (although its a Synthetic (Microcrystalline)) polymer / wax

TOGWT


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

I generally go on touch, I can usually tell the state of an LSP when I come to wash a car. Beading is a secondary for me.


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## MickCTR (Mar 4, 2006)

Can I just ask, who goes 9 months on here without at least washing and waxing the car? I would say that, on a place like DW if something has 3 months good durability then that is plenty because we'll be out polishing and waxing again by then. The days when i used to leave my cars 6 months + without any protection have long since gone! I can't see too many people on here needing 6-9months protection!


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## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

"The strength of natural waxes is water absorbtion, leaving the car looking just washed when dry"

As a part of the great unwashed could someone explain the above statement for me. I had always thought Carnauba wax to be insoluble?


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

"If it's maximum durability you want, get an approved applicator to apply nyalic to your paint. Nothing will get through that for ten years. It's a clear laquer protective paint"


That's what lacquer's for


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## Ben H (Jan 17, 2006)

Someone (i may try!) needs to get a scrap panel and split it into 4 / 8 sections each with a different LSP and leave outdoors or subject to different contaminants (eg bird crap etc, UV light etc) and see which one is the strongest.

I suggest a faded red bonnet, polish it back up to nice bright red and then put a good base down (eg yellow carlack) and top with different LSP's. Then leave outside for say 3 months subject to all condtions, wash and see what the different sections look like when washed 3 months down the line?


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## Candypants (Jul 18, 2007)

I never leave the car 3 months without a wash.

Don't use a sealant any more in fact - just regular (2-4 weeks) applications of OCW after the wash.

Have use Z5 Pro, Nano Twins and a couple of other sealants prior to this process and didn't see the value to tell the truth.

Whatever works for you I guess


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

PhillipM said:


> Yep, but can you get 7 coats of 476S on?
> NXT goes on so thin you can get lots of coats on, and you can probably get 7 coats of NXT on and have sat down and had a drink by the time you have 2-3 layers of 476S....


iirc Miracle said he had 3 years out of 7 layers of Vintage (put on over 2-3 weeks)(kinda put me off buying it with that statement as I'd never get through a tub lol).

7 layers of NXT as has been said it contains very mild cleaners that would in effect 'clean' ever so slightly the previous layer.

Maybe 7 coats of Carlack/Klasse SG would be a better choice, as that could be done one after the other as it's water based not solvent based like NXT and most liquid waxes.
Polycharge it and I guess your looking at great durability along with a deep, wet finish.

And with an early start you could get 7 layers of ZFX'd zaino on there too.

But as Neil said to me the when we did the forester, anymore than 3 and I would be getting extremely bored with applying them.
Which is why I would go for layering a wax over a couple of three weeks



Neil_S said:


> Thats a very good point, I recall reading somewhere about waxes giving greater protection than synthetics with some types of contaminant, although in the years I have been waxing cars I have found that if a contaminant is sufficiently potent, it will eat any LSP quickly.


Which iirc is why L200 Steve went for Zaino over Z ymol, due to the type of fallout from his environment.

For me waxes have lasted longer that sealants and I've never had much luck with sealant + wax (probably because I did them on the same day).


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

With the Zaino as well you can just layer later on, of course you can do this with other LSP's, but I think it becomes more viable with Zaino because the finish doesn't seem to dull substantially, so you could add more in say 3 months time if you ever wanted to.

Either way, I think my maximum durability requirement is 6-7 months, i.e. over a winter. This is met perfectly by Zaino.


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

Dream Machines said:


> Best protection from everything, great sheeting and extra shine, nothing etching through = Fireglaze double strength


Oh thank god for that I'm not alone


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

hutchingsp said:


> Oh thank god for that I'm not alone


No you are not alone


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## KR MAN (Jul 18, 2007)

spitfire said:


> Forget the wax and the sealants and build a carport. :thumb:


Or buy a chainsaw.:newbie:


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

Candypants said:


> How do you measure the length of protection ?
> 
> Is this an all over car assessment ?
> 
> ...


Here's how I measure it

When it rains, if it beads well and the beads are tall and closely spaced
When doing a flooding rinse after a wash, how fast the water sheets away.
Slickness. That is always going to be a fight to keep retained but when I notice a massive drop in slickness regardless of QD or sealant spray, there's a good chance that the LSP is on it's way out.

Once I've done a rinse and the water just sits on the car like a puddle (especially the roof, boot and hood) regardless of how much water vanish I apply to the car and rinse off, then the sealant is definately dead.

My test vehicle was my 94 white hilux which is never carported or garaged and was washed at the coin op pro wash with high pressure warm soap and then a flood rinse with my watering cans.

After nine months with no QD or Spray Sealant, the sheeting was just as good and slickness did not change.
After eleven months, Fireglaze DS kicked the bucket.

The amazing thing though is that whatever little contaminants did stick to the paint, came off with the high pressure soap. Even sap from the sappy trees at glenelg bay on the coast came off with the soap.

Once I get those products I mentioned in previous post, I will be conducting a massive LSP championship with every LSP I have and leaving the single stage red and clearcoated car outside the workshop and washing it once a week with my QD and sealant based Showcar suds shampoo.

half of each coated area will have QD applied and I'll see what difference the non QD'd has over the other.

I like to polish once every ten to twelve months rather than three or six to save the PPG 2K clearcoated paint on my 1998 model Tickford Falcon.


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## Candypants (Jul 18, 2007)

I've had Zaino layered and it failed to protect against marks. Did OK in terms of sheeting etc and offering protection from environmental damage but not scratches.

For me, sheeting and beading (indicative of different products in many cases) aint no good if the paint is marked up. 

The CC will far outlast my detailing with the fine polishes I use so I'm happy to just polish as needed and do away with sealants.

I notice that on my car, when well prepped and prior to applying any product, it will bead/sheet. It beads with a spray of water and sheets when more volume of water is applied.

However I do understand that without any LSP that surface will get impacted by environmental and physical damage so a LSP helps not just with the look but as a sacrificial layer.

Wouldn't the sealer degrade variably depending on many things so you could have sealant left in some areas and not others at any stage ? A frequent reapplication seems to be the wise move ?

I just don't see value for myself in a sealer that lasts 6,9, 12 months but I'm sure there are plenty of owners who like the idea.


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

I've never known any LSP to protect against scratches? 

Perhaps because Zaino highlights defects much more than many LSP, it is this property which is causing an issue over actual protection?


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## Candypants (Jul 18, 2007)

Neil_S said:


> I've never known any LSP to protect against scratches?


My point was that a long term sealant just doesn't make sense to me but I have black paint, that as a detail addict, shows up very easily.

My kids can never see the marks I show them. Still, I can see them :buffer:

So, normal day to day use of my car brings it's share of scratches meaning a long term sealer is wasted effort :thumb:

Does that make sense ?


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Candypants said:


> My point was that a long term sealant just doesn't make sense to me but I have black paint, that as a detail addict, shows up very easily.
> 
> My kids can never see the marks I show them. Still, I can see them :buffer:
> 
> ...


Makes perfect sense :thumb:


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## Porta (Jan 3, 2007)

As I said before, PPS is IMO one of the best sealants out there.

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=38301

The C1 coating from Gtechnique seems to hold up very well.


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## Candypants (Jul 18, 2007)

Neil_S said:


> Makes perfect sense :thumb:


Phew, thanks Neil, I was getting myself confused :thumb:


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