# Car Trader selling as Private sale



## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

If a dealer has got a Car showing as a Trader on the V5 is the dealer allowed to sell it as a private sale?


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## kings.. (Aug 28, 2007)

If they purchased the car for themselves and chose to keep it on the trade slip I suppose its not that much of an issue.
The bottom line is; are you looking to buy the car? And are you concerned as you want a warranty?


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Yes that's what the dealer had said. Obviously to keep the owner record down but as a trader selling surely I have more protection within the first three months even though they don't want to put the money through the business.


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## Sh1ner (May 19, 2012)

They cannot have it both ways.
They probably don't leave more than a thimbleful of petrol in it in case it gets pinched as well!
If it shows as trader on the V5 then trader it is.
If they are desperate for it to be a private sale then I would be tempted to steer clear as whenever the traders I know try this they probably know something you don't.
Bought from a trader the vehicle would be treated as faulty at the time of sale if you had any problems within the first six months within certain limits.
It must also meet any description offered.
As a private sale, nothing.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm ok with moving things forward as I know I will get the protection as the V5 is registered with the trader . The problem arises if he states sold as seen on the receipt which wouldn't stand up anyway I believe although he is making it clear it's a private sale.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Sounds a bit strange that he's stressing it's a private sale. Realistically, if he simply isn't putting the money through the business, he should still be able to do that whilst still fulfilling the protection that you would get from a trade sale. Even if you had to go back for some repairs, it would be at his discretion if or how he pays and accounts for it. Whether that's, on the paperwork, as a car which he has put through the business or he pays out of his own pocket. 

I'd treat it with some caution.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

What's the worst that can happen?


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

You sure its not got a massive issue that he wants to offload and then you have no comeback? Is the car silly cheap for what it is ?


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## kings.. (Aug 28, 2007)

if he is trade the V5 will simply be in the previous owners name and the yellow slip will be missing. Find out how long he has had the car mate and any known faults. You would be surprised to know you are actually protected under EU law for longer than 3 months with used car purchase. The only way for the seller to avoid this would be to put "vehicle sold with known faults" on the invoice or "buyer accepts all responsibility upon completion of sale" and then you sign below this statement. You are then agreeing to contractual terms.
If you like the car don't dismiss it; get the reg do some history checks phone the dealers in the service book to confirm its SH and also check its MOT history on VOSA website to support mileage and any previously flagged advisories.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

HPI is all clear on the vehicle. New MOT and full dealer service history.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

craigeh123 said:


> You sure its not got a massive issue that he wants to offload and then you have no comeback? Is the car silly cheap for what it is ?


No it's priced about right looking at similar spec cars.


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

My cynical side would be thinking he's trying to off load a troublesome car to try and get out of his obligations to fix it as a trader.It could be innocent but if it were me I'd steer clear.You know for a fact if it goes wrong you'll be on your own.Far better buy privately if your happy to have no warranty, if you want dealer back up then buy off someone more reputable.A dealer can not sell a car 'sold as seen' its illegal.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

lofty said:


> My cynical side would be thinking he's trying to off load a troublesome car to try and get out of his obligations to fix it as a trader.It could be innocent but if it were me I'd steer clear.You know for a fact if it goes wrong you'll be on your own.Far better buy privately if your happy to have no warranty, if you want dealer back up then buy off someone more reputable.A dealer can not sell a car 'sold as seen' its illegal.


I agree but although it sounds fishy he is reputable dealer and mechanic selling high end sports cars , good reviews on piston heads etc. Obviously I won't name him as mentioned he has done nothing extreme .


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## kevhufc (Jun 10, 2014)

If you know a good mechanic with a set of ramps and diagnostic equipment you could ask if you can take it for a test drive and an inspection by your mechanic? If there's nothing wrong with the car and the seller is genuine then I don't see this being a problem.


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

If hes a well known reputable dealer if the kind of market your looking at , and is selling the car at value simmilar to other dealers who aren't trying to do a private sale you've really got to question why . 

Unless its not his stock and either his own personal car or hes selling it on behalf of someone . 

Sounds fishy to me tbh


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

It's the family car and uses it to get to work and back. It's a family saloon , his stock is Cobra's , two seaters etc.

Also phoned the dealer it was last serviced at 7000 miles ago and no issues there. New MOT , HPI clear etc.


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

I have no knowledge of the motor trade but if the V5 says the car is owned by ABC Ltd then in my view you are buying from ABC Ltd and it is a business to consumer transaction. At the very least I would pay for a full inspection


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## tapster (Sep 25, 2012)

Stay clear. I bought a bmw on this basis. Thought I was getting a good deal. Within 6 months the lacquer started peeling on the bonnet, within 12 months the whole car needed stripping back and re spraying. 
I quizzed him at the time as I had a hunch it has been re sprayed but he swore not!

Turns out really cheap lacquer used hence why it peeled and it couldn't be sprayed over

12 months in and head gasket went. Unheard of on a 6 cylinder Beemer according to my mechanic. 

I'll only buy when there's guaranteed come backs now. Lost a few grand on that car.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

It's a gamble when buying private.


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## Techgeek (Jun 7, 2007)

He's up to something dodgy, no doubt about it, whether its a lemon, or he's scamming the taxman, something isn't straight up. The problem with dealing with dishonest people is you never truly know where you stand and what other games they are playing.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Well the GF purchased it tonight. Just got a photo from her as she has just done a 2 hour journey home. She liked it too much. Fingers crossed.


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## tom_painter85 (Jul 5, 2007)

You may or may not be aware, even if something is listed as a 'private sale' by a trader, as they are considered a motor trade professional, they HAVE to provide a warranty of some description. Normally a 3-month will cover this. 

This also applies to a true private sale where the seller is a motor trade professional. For example, I work in sales for a main dealer, but any car I sell privately (my own included) has to be covered by a warranty, as I'm considered an expert (!) on the trade. 

Good luck, hope the car is ok!


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Thanks.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

What car is it?


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Kerr said:


> What car is it?


2008 Lexus IS250


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

tom_painter85 said:


> This also applies to a true private sale where the seller is a motor trade professional. For example, I work in sales for a main dealer, but any car I sell privately (my own included) has to be covered by a warranty, as I'm considered an expert (!) on the trade.


Really? You got any links to info on this?


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## tom_painter85 (Jul 5, 2007)

It's not so much a section in the SoG Act, but a general legal principle regarding the extra duty of care 'experts' are required to observe. It's tricky but of anything went wrong you could try to argue the case in court


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Just a quick update, I guess why the trader put sold as seen as she washed the car for the first time yesterday and water come out under the dashboard. Any advise appreciated.


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

Exotica said:


> Just a quick update, I guess why the trader put sold as seen as she washed the car for the first time yesterday and water come out under the dashboard. Any advise appreciated.


Time to start taking bits off and water testing it.

Could be something simple like a blocked water channel.

Does it have a sunroof?


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Lift the carpets and dust some talc around the footwell/back of the dash. Watering can or hose small areas and see where the water trail comes from.

Or if you don't want to talc the floor, lay with your head looking under the dash and get someone to water the car and hopefully see where it's coming in


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Exotica said:


> Just a quick update, I guess why the trader put sold as seen as she washed the car for the first time yesterday and water come out under the dashboard. Any advise appreciated.


I've had two cars with water ingress in the last 18 months. One was an old Lexus IS200, the other a 2009 SLK280. I got rid of both as the high moisture in the car meant that all sorts of electrics started failing. The moisture tarnishes contacts on switches making them not work at all or stick in position.

Even if you manage to fix it you may have a ticking timebomb of electrical gremlins. Check around drain holes and seals or just trade it in having learned the hard way. It could be a botched repair (even with a clear HPI a car could have been smashed to bits a rebuilt).

Have you got zero comeback on the seller?


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

That's what I'm hoping for some come back. I will contact the trader but I'm guessing he will state sold as seen.


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## polac5397 (Apr 16, 2014)

had similar with my mondeo, check the seal at the bottom of windscreen, turns out it had not been fitted properly . After that all ways ok and water tight


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

Exotica said:


> That's what I'm hoping for some come back. I will contact the trader but I'm guessing he will state sold as seen.


Pay him a visit


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Exotica said:


> That's what I'm hoping for some come back. I will contact the trader but I'm guessing he will state sold as seen.


You really need to speak to someone like Citizens Advice or similar to get absolute clarification on what your rights are.

Problem, as it were, is that you have potentially bought it in what may amount to be a private sale despite knowing in your head that the situation didn't quite add up.

Did you/she explicitly ask if there were any problems or a reason why he was keen to sell it sold as seen? If so, what was the reason he gave.

Have you gotten a receipt for the vehicle? Is it a business headed receipt or has he just given you a bit of paper signed and dated. If it's the latter, then double check that the name corresponds with what he is trading as and it may give you something evidential to show.

Either way, I think it is going to be difficult unless you can argue his trade status. Caveat emptor and all that guff.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

The car was advertised on Pistonheads as a trade advert. The log book was sold under a trader sale as he wasn't the previous keeper ie the trader.


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## Sh1ner (May 19, 2012)

There is always a reason.
Check the drains under the scuttle at the bottom of the screen.
Do you have an airline? With some very soapy water it can be a good means of finding water leaks as bubbles will appear when you find one. Blow from inside and outside whilst keeping the car wet with soapy water.
It sounds a bit daft but it is worth a try.
Does the screen look like it has been replaced?


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Has he wrote something to the effect of trade sale or sold as seen on the invoice and was the price advertised/paid in line with a private sale or a dealer sale? 

Sure someone with better knowledge will confirm or correct, but not sure he can dismiss any responsibility just because his name wasn't on the logbook? I partexed a car once and the garage ended up selling it before I'd physically exchanged the vehicle (they called me to bring mine in and had to give me a courtesy car for a few days whilst my new one was prepped) so they wouldn't have had anything on the logbook identifying it to the garage, that I'm aware of.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Sh1ner said:


> There is always a reason.
> Check the drains under the scuttle at the bottom of the screen.
> Do you have an airline? With some very soapy water it can be a good means of finding water leaks as bubbles will appear when you find one. Blow from inside and outside whilst keeping the car wet with soapy water.
> It sounds a bit daft but it is worth a try.
> Does the screen look like it has been replaced?


The screen hasn't been replaced I would say. It's looks like a 60k mileage screen if that makes sense. The water comes in from the side of the pillar. Don't need bubbles as it drips through.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

m1pui said:


> Has he wrote something to the effect of trade sale or sold as seen on the invoice and was the price advertised/paid in line with a private sale or a dealer sale?
> 
> Sure someone with better knowledge will confirm or correct, but not sure he can dismiss any responsibility just because his name wasn't on the logbook? I partexed a car once and the garage ended up selling it before I'd physically exchanged the vehicle (they called me to bring mine in and had to give me a courtesy car for a few days whilst my new one was prepped) so they wouldn't have had anything on the logbook identifying it to the garage, that I'm aware of.


Sold as seen on invoice. Purchased at his business address.


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## kings.. (Aug 28, 2007)

quite simply with that advert alone you have grounds to take him to court if he doesn't pay up. The car clearly was purchased in the trade and he has to honour this sale as he is supposed to be an expert within the automotive field. I would write to him, if this doesn't work don't mess about initiate proceedings. get the car inspected by the dealer and claim back these costs in court too. I know of many incidents where the motor trade has been in court for vehicle fault claims, the trade never wins!


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## kings.. (Aug 28, 2007)

p.s sold as seen means nothing. the car would have to have a receipt that states "sold with known faults" or "sold as scrap" for him to avoid potential warranty claims


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/problemswithvehicles-sum6.cfm
http://www.dragon2000.co.uk/motor-trade-blogs/trade-sale-sold-as-seen/

Was the price you paid along the lines of a private sale or retail sale?

You've probably got grounds to proceed, but just be prepared in case you do have to take it on the chin and just put it down to experience


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Sounds like you are in deep trouble. I don't imagine the dealer playing ball after doing everything he could to have no responsibility for the car.

I genuinely hope you get it sorted out, but I feel you've left yourself wide open for trouble.

You asked the question as you knew something wasn't quite right. Nearly everyone seen the obvious alarm bells ringing but you still bought it.

The guy has stressed private sale time and time again and you seem to have accepted or at least understood that.

Although you knew he was a dealer the fact he wasn't offering dealer services you ought to have guessed he wasn't going to be happy to repair any problems that it seems he more than likely knew about.

Best of luck sorting the issues, but I can see this one going on for a long while.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

m1pui said:


> http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/problemswithvehicles-sum6.cfm
> http://www.dragon2000.co.uk/motor-trade-blogs/trade-sale-sold-as-seen/
> 
> Was the price you paid along the lines of a private sale or retail sale?
> ...


Price wise , some dealers were cheaper and some private ads were dearer .


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Kerr said:


> Sounds like you are in deep trouble. I don't imagine the dealer playing ball after doing everything he could to have no responsibility for the car.
> 
> I genuinely hope you get it sorted out, but I feel you've left yourself wide open for trouble.
> 
> ...


I wanted to look at other cars but couldn't change her mind. She wanted it and felt because she was buying from a trader with high end cars around him she felt ok with it.


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

As already mentioned the fact he stated sold as seen means nothing, except that he's a cowboy, you have just the same rights as if you'd bought it from a reputable trader.What makes it different is the fact he's going to argue blind that he told you that you had no come back, so I doubt he's going roll over and offer a fix. I hope I'm wrong but I think you'll have to fix it yourself or take him to court. Unfortunately there was only one reason he was selling it sold as seen, and now you know what the reason is.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Exotica said:


> I wanted to look at other cars but couldn't change her mind. She wanted it and felt because she was buying from a trader with high end cars around him she felt ok with it.


Bloody women  she's really shot herself in the foot if she could've gotten a warrantied example for less.

If the car was unroadworthy, you might've had more leverage in any arguments if you went along official routes. For what it is you're probably best of getting under the dash and sourcing the problem yourself. As said previously, it might be something dead simple, but it makes you wonder why the dealer didn't sort it if it was.

Opening a can of worms, but it could even be that the leak wasn't the reason he was shifting it as seen and it's just an unlucky coincidence! Perhaps also be thinking about putting it into a trusted garage for a service and check over if the paperwork with the car is a bit iffy.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Car has Lexus full history and local dealer confirms this. As mentioned the leak is from the top/ side of windscreen. Yes may be coincidence but still a pain if failed on a 6 year old car with full lexus history.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Exotica said:


> Car has Lexus full history and local dealer confirms this. As mentioned the leak is from the top/ side of windscreen. Yes may be coincidence but still a pain if failed on a 6 year old car with full lexus history.


Ah apologies. I hadn't seen that post with the screen thing 

Hopefully it's just a failed seal and someone like autoglass (or 5 mins with a silicone gun) can sort it.

[Scaremongering] Did you HPI it? Not buckled after an accident is it[/scaremongering] :lol:


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Yes HPI done , all no records found. Regarding the re- seal local fitters won't reseal. They said screen has to come out plus it may crack to add extra expense.


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

Just get the screen changed .


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

sjk said:


> Just get the screen changed .


Yes that's that's an option but she hasn't got £400 at the moment.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Suppose you could just hope that it gets cracked or a stone chip, assuming you have windscreen cover, and just pay the excess...


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

m1pui said:


> Suppose you could just hope that it gets cracked or a stone chip, assuming you have windscreen cover, and just pay the excess...


Yes windscreen cover, others have suggested asking a stone to have a fight with the screen. She wouldn't let that happen.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Exotica said:


> Yes windscreen cover, others have suggested asking a stone to have a fight with the screen. She wouldn't let that happen.


With all due respect, tell her to sort it out herself then. It's her shiny new toy and she's probably not going to authorise any ideas you put forth from the sounds of it.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Got the V5 today and contacted the previous keeper who sold it on to the dealer we purchased off.


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

m1pui said:


> With all due respect, tell her to sort it out herself then. It's her shiny new toy and she's probably not going to authorise any ideas you put forth from the sounds of it.


Here here :thumb:


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## kings.. (Aug 28, 2007)

> Got the V5 today and contacted the previous keeper who sold it on to the dealer we purchased off.


With respect its nothing to do with the former keeper. You are going about this wrong. if there is an issue with the car the contract of sale is with the guy you purchased it off. The former keeper has no responsibility.

Tell the trader that failure to rectify the problems relating to leaks will result in legal action taking place. He has to resolve this by law. you contacting the previous owner will most likely just cause unnecessary conflict.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

kings.. said:


> With respect its nothing to do with the former keeper. You are going about this wrong. if there is an issue with the car the contract of sale is with the guy you purchased it off. The former keeper has no responsibility.
> 
> Tell the trader that failure to rectify the problems relating to leaks will result in legal action taking place. He has to resolve this by law. you contacting the previous owner will most likely just cause unnecessary conflict.


I was contacting the previous owner to see if he had any work done on the screen. It was a friendly call and thanked him for talking to me and it was left at that .


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

It was obvious you were going to get grief with this motor . The trader wouldn't have been so pushy for a "trade" sale if he thought he could sell the car for more with a warranty


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

craigeh123 said:


> It was obvious you were going to get grief with this motor . The trader wouldn't have been so pushy for a "trade" sale if he thought he could sell the car for more with a warranty


It wasn't as if she went in with her eyes shut though. The car was fully HPI'd , full Lexus history confirmed with dealer and new MOT. What more can you do when buying a car.

Unfortunately you can't pull the car apart and inspect every part. As it's a trader luckily she has some protection. Whether it's sorted or not I will update .


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## eddie bullit (Nov 23, 2007)

She's done all she can really..it's pot luck when buying a used car to some extent because no one knows where that cars been or its full history. FSH & HPI checks are great but its only a small part of a cars history most of which as a 2nd owner you'll never know. 
To be honest I've heard of new cars with faults that have had repairs before sale due to transportation, flooding etc..
It's in the lap of the gods!!
Good luck hope you get sorted.:thumb:


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

Its just the way the trader was so insistent on a no come back sale . He knew there was grief on the horizon and wanted out of the car quickly


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## danwel (Feb 18, 2007)

craigeh123 said:


> Its just the way the trader was so insistent on a no come back sale . He knew there was grief on the horizon and wanted out of the car quickly


Yeah that's a bit rubbish in all fairness and very dishonest of the guy and that in itself should've raised alarm bells.

I'm not being harsh but it does seem like you may just have to chalk this one up to experience and start looking to get it sorted and hope that it doesn't cost a fortune. I'd start by going on the owners club and see if there are any common issues or any known faults and possibly they can point you in the right direction without it breaking your bank


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Any updates?


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Nanoman said:


> Any updates?


Will post the update tomorrow. Awaiting reply from dealer.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

We made a four hour round trip to the dealer Wednesday. Dropped the car off so he could get his window man to look at it and we got a call hour later.
Sealant was applied so drove home and waited for the rain which happened that night. No change as water is still coming in.

Dealer is not replying to emails or calls, maybe having a couple of days off.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

exotica said:


> we made a four hour round trip to the dealer wednesday. Dropped the car off so he could get his window man to look at it and we got a call hour later.
> Sealant was applied so drove home and waited for the rain which happened that night. No change as water is still coming in.
> 
> Dealer is not replying to emails or calls, maybe having a couple of days off.


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

To me it looks like the screen needs removing and rebonding


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

craigeh123 said:


> To me it looks like the screen needs removing and rebonding


To be honest I thought he would do that.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

craigeh123 said:


> To me it looks like the screen needs removing and rebonding


Plus slightly worrying as airbag in the pillars.


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

Needs a windscreen, You cant just seal it .


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## Dift (May 22, 2011)

It's a trade sale through and through. He knows it.

Give him an ultimatum. It's quite easy to start a thread on PH (not naming the dealer), but with the advert embedded as a picture.

If he is that well known, someone will give him a heads up, and no doubt he will sort the problem.

You need to get it sorted before the rain comes (usually as soon as the kids finish school).

You have 3 weeks


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

I would contact your local Trading Standards to get their view. If they think you may have a case then I would write to them to ask the car be fixed within a reasonable time. If this fails, complete the Small Claims Court paperwork.

If Trading Standards or similar say you have no case then chalk it up to experience


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## MagpieRH (May 27, 2014)

Just read through this, you've found the nightmare scenario which always made me wary of buying used. 

I have recently bought a used car, and didn't really follow the standard advice of HPI/history check, etc. I took it to a trusted mechanic when I picked it up though and he OK'd it mechanically so I'm happy. The main piece of advice is always to let your head rule, and ignore your heart. Obviously your good lady has fallen for the car and ignored her (and your, and several one here's) nagging doubts.

It's a real shame, you should be able to enjoy a new vehicle, especially given that it wasn't cheap. The only thing I would say about your recent visit to the dealer is why you took a 4-hour round trip and didn't test the 'repair' before you left? If he's not picking up the phone now, and you have a spare day, drop in. It's much harder to fob you off in person, and if he does I see no reason not to name him on here. 

If that's the level of service he gives to customers, regardless of whether he considers it a 'personal' sale, I'd say his business customer deserve to know. I know some might disagree with that, but if I bought a car form the business and got that level of service I'd be furious.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

MagpieRH said:


> Just read through this, you've found the nightmare scenario which always made me wary of buying used.
> 
> I have recently bought a used car, and didn't really follow the standard advice of HPI/history check, etc. I took it to a trusted mechanic when I picked it up though and he OK'd it mechanically so I'm happy. The main piece of advice is always to let your head rule, and ignore your heart. Obviously your good lady has fallen for the car and ignored her (and your, and several one here's) nagging doubts.
> 
> ...


Said he couldn't water test it as the seal was still wet.


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## MagpieRH (May 27, 2014)

Exotica said:


> Said he couldn't water test it as the seal was still wet.


Yet he let you drive it away despite the chance it could rain? Unless there's an obvious sign, they haven't touched it. Dodgy.


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

crack the screen through let autoglass come sort it , swallow the £75 quid and chalk it up to experience . hire a dehumidifier for a couple of days and dry it out


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

Have you got cover from Lexus under the perforation warranty? VW were quite happy to replace my sunroof when that was thought to be leaking but turned out to be a leaky replaced screen...by autoglass. Worth asking them if it is the original one.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

should_do_more said:


> Have you got cover from Lexus under the perforation warranty? VW were quite happy to replace my sunroof when that was thought to be leaking but turned out to be a leaky replaced screen...by autoglass. Worth asking them if it is the original one.


It's the original screen but Lexus aren't interested as it's six years old although it has full lexus history.


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## Rundie (Oct 2, 2007)

I'd say pay for it yourself, lesson learnt, move on. 'If' he's willing to look at it further it will be a cheap bodge, he's proved that already. The only other option is legal but life's too short.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Rundie said:


> I'd say pay for it yourself, lesson learnt, move on. 'If' he's willing to look at it further it will be a cheap bodge, he's proved that already. The only other option is legal but life's too short.


I'd dig my heels in.

We've not established that the fault is the windscreen yet. What happens if Exotica splashes out on a new windscreen and the problem isn't solved?

He'll be out of pocket and back to square one.

If the seller gets away with it, he'll rip off more people.

Nail him I say.


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

i think the sellers a crafty ******* trying to get out of his obligations , at the same time i think your on a hiding to nothing tbh . 

i wish you luck


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Will update when I have more info .


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## telewebby (Apr 27, 2009)

Does the car have a sunroof? if so i bet blocked drain channels or the pipe has come loose which run down the a piller

Alex


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Blocked drain channels is an obvious one. Easy to check and fix.

I still say to sell it quick. High moisture content will already be well on its way to playing havoc with the electrics.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

telewebby said:


> Does the car have a sunroof? if so i bet blocked drain channels or the pipe has come loose which run down the a piller
> 
> Alex


Already checked, drain holes are totally clear and water runs out in front of wheel arches.


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## Rebel007 (May 7, 2013)

As a matter of interest have you contacted Trading standards at all? 

If so what do they say? This is the sort of thing they used to like dealing with as it sent a clear message to unscrupulous traders at a zero failure rate to them, its a cut and dried case of a trader attempting to avoid. 

If you have not contacted them surely that is your next port of call as otherwise you are going to be wasting your time completely, it seems like you GF has left you to deal with the mess she created and is hoping you can resolve it for her even though you advised caution at the onset.

PS I would not suggest getting rid of the car just in case there is a problem later on, any car can have issues and at least with this one you know where to look and why, you are not left wondering why and if it's likely to happen again.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Rebel007 said:


> As a matter of interest have you contacted Trading standards at all?
> 
> If so what do they say? This is the sort of thing they used to like dealing with as it sent a clear message to unscrupulous traders at a zero failure rate to them, its a cut and dried case of a trader attempting to avoid.
> 
> ...


Is it my Local trading standards or his?


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## Deanoecosse (Mar 15, 2007)

You said you spoke to the previous owner. Did they confirm if they had issues with water coming in? If so, did they have any work done to try to resolve it? It sounds 99% like its a failed windscreen or door seal which will be fairly easy to diagnose by some time spent with a hose and a torch and if it turns out to be the screen then you know what to do. However, my first port of call is trading standards (local to the dealer as they will be aware of any previous complaints against him) to nail this dodgy trader and do it ASAP because you need to get this fixed before the water gets to the electrics and causes big ££ damage


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Update

Here is the reply email the dealer sent to the best half.

Sorry didn't see the other mail. Sorry to hear our fix did'nt work. In reality the screen will need to come out and be refitted, problem is nobody will guarantee that the screen will come out without damage so they all want to fit a new one. I think my best idea is to have a 'crack' in the screen appear so your insurance cover will pay out. I'm happy to 'help' in that regard but I'm not willing to pay for the screen to be replaced.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Not surprising, time to remind him of his obligation I reckon


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## eddie bullit (Nov 23, 2007)

Im surprised you've not contacted anyone over this as of yet. Still trying to chase a dealer who sold you a car posed as a private sale. Do you not think you should report him? He'll happily fob you off and in the end he'll just ignore your number and emails.Contact trading standards and citizens advice and apply some pressure to this ******** instead of trying to resolve a situation on the premise that your dealing with a decent person. You're not..he's a ******!
Good luck n be quick!


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## Rundie (Oct 2, 2007)

Quality dealer.....trying to get you to commit insurance fraud :thumb:


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm waiting for the his local trading standard team to contact me. They have all the details.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

This is supposed to be a reputable dealer selling high end motors is it not? Now he's suggesting you commit insurance fraud and he'll help? Trading standards or cops for me on this one. Either that or call him now you have h by the balls and tell him to either take the car back and give your money back or arrange your choice of settlement at his expense.


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## MPS101 (May 6, 2011)

He is a dealer and claiming to be private so you can be the is not declaring the income so the most simple and best way to get him is phone the HMRC confidential line and report him. That will be a nice surprise for him when he gets assessed for all the tax he owes.


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

I don't think he was pretending to be a private seller he just wanted to offload this particular car as a private sale to get out of his obligations as a trader/business.It was obvious the car would have faults otherwise why would he sell it sold as seen? Luckily the law will still treat him as a dealer as he can't sell it sold as seen as its illegal.I think the OP is now kicking himself for letting his Girlfriend buy the car, although stopping a woman doing buying something is obviously easier said than done


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

lofty said:


> I don't think he was pretending to be a private seller he just wanted to offload this particular car as a private sale to get out of his obligations as a trader/business.It was obvious the car would have faults otherwise why would he sell it sold as seen? Luckily the law will still treat him as a dealer as he can't sell it sold as seen as its illegal.I think the OP is now kicking himself for letting his Girlfriend buy the car, although stopping a woman doing buying something is obviously easier said than done


Yes especially this one. Will she learn from this? I doubt it .


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

Exotica said:


> Yes especially this one. Will she learn from this? I doubt it .


Maybe you'll just have to learn to choose different girlfriends


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

lofty said:


> Maybe you'll just have to learn to choose different girlfriends


Choose?

Here's a song about it. 




Joking aside, the situation is going for bad to worse.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Kerr said:


> Choose?
> 
> Here's a song about it.
> 
> ...


Yep, she wouldn't listen.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

lofty said:


> Maybe you'll just have to learn to choose different girlfriends


It's been very close that I can assure you.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Guys would you just get the Window replaced to prevent further leaks then try and recoup the money from him while the motions are in place ?


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

I wouldn't commit insurance fraud if that's what you're asking. Find a local independent windscreen place if you go down that route. 

I'd try and play him at his own game... Tell him you're going to HMRC, trading standards and cops unless he takes car back and gives full refund. Private sale was probably a tax dodge, offering to help commit insurance fraud is dodgy... Remember what I said early on. The moisture in the car will play havoc with electrics soon enough.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Nanoman said:


> I wouldn't commit insurance fraud if that's what you're asking. Find a local independent windscreen place if you go down that route.
> 
> I'd try and play him at his own game... Tell him you're going to HMRC, trading standards and cops unless he takes car back and gives full refund. Private sale was probably a tax dodge, offering to help commit insurance fraud is dodgy... Remember what I said early on. The moisture in the car will play havoc with electrics soon enough.


Have a quote form a local windscreen company. Now waiting for a reply, he has been emailed with the points you've mentioned.

The problem is some people aren't worried about the authorities .


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Exotica said:


> Guys would you just get the Window replaced to prevent further leaks then try and recoup the money from him while the motions are in place ?


What if you did, and then found out it might be something else? The onus is on him to rectify it properly

Personally I'd be going down the route of handing it back for money back, can't be the only one of that kind about surely


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

bidderman1969 said:


> What if you did, and then found out it might be something else? The onus is on him to rectify it properly
> 
> Personally I'd be going down the route of handing it back for money back, can't be the only one of that kind about surely


We have already done a four round trip. He has tried and failed, what else could it be ?


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

Personally this can go 3 ways.

1.You drive up there and you tell him to sort it and leave the car there 
2. you can go down the painful lines. Trading standards which wont be able to find him no doubt its a fred in a shed selling cars. So obviously tax office is the preferable .
3. Large blunt objects are useful for making people see sense :thumb: You know what im talking about.




However I think your girlfriend needs to get out of the shoe shopping vision in future.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Ok here is the update. I told him I still have the Pistonheads trade advert , I still have it too.

"Your comments are rubbish regarding the trade advert but I have neither the time or energy to discuss this. I've spoken directly the company to replace the screen and have asked them to forward me the invoice for my records. If you can make contact with them they will book you a slot to fit the screen.

As far as I am concerned this is a good will gesture and end to this matter and I will not entertain any further discussions on this sale."

If anyone wants the dealer name then please PM.

Thanks all


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

Exotica said:


> Ok here is the update. I told him I still have the Pistonheads trade advert , I still have it too.
> 
> "Your comments are rubbish regarding the trade advert but I have neither the time or energy to discuss this. I've spoken directly the company to replace the screen and have asked them to forward me the invoice for my records. If you can make contact with them they will book you a slot to fit the screen.
> 
> ...


So in short he's realised you have a brain cell and wont go down without a fight.

Get the windscreen company to keep the old glass wrap it up for you.

Mail it to him in the post.

Glad its getting sorted.


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## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortfor...me=&location=39&origin=http://www.hmrc.gov.uk


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

empsburna said:


> https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortfor...me=&location=39&origin=http://www.hmrc.gov.uk


Good boy :thumb:


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

Glad it's getting sorted


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## Kiashuma (May 4, 2011)

Glad its getting all sorted, posting stuff about hmrc seems a little harsh we don't know how the trader runs his business etc.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Kiashuma said:


> Glad its getting all sorted, posting stuff about hmrc seems a little harsh we don't know how the trader runs his business etc.


Badly by the sounds of it.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Kerr said:


> Badly by the sounds of it.


Can't argue with that.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

If anyone is buying a Lotus or Porsche and wants a heads up then let me know .


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Kiashuma said:


> Glad its getting all sorted, posting stuff about hmrc seems a little harsh we don't know how the trader runs his business etc.


The guy's clearly a dodgy bugger trading off a good name he doesn't deserve.



Exotica said:


> If anyone is buying a Lotus or Porsche and wants a heads up then let me know .


I'd be making the name of the dealer public along with screenshots of e-mails where he's offering to help with fraud. He don't give a damn about shafting you so you shouldn't give a damn about shafting him.


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