# Faded red paint



## CodyEP2 (Mar 4, 2011)

Hello all, im new to this site as im in need of advice on a way around a big problem I have.

I have a 54 plate milano red Honda Civic. All was fine when I bought the car but over time the colour has faded, it's 54 plate so didn't expect it to do this at just 3-4 years old (thank you Honda).
It's going to cost me hundreds to sort it out through a detailer and as im moving house and am basically skint as of last November, I can't afford to have it detailed. I want to sell the car eventually this year, Most likely in time for my renewal October but I can't sell it in the condition it's in because the fading is awful to look at and it's riddled with damage (vandalism) but if I can sort the fade it won't be so bad.

Ive washed and polished it regularly ie: looked after it because it's my pride and joy, well, was. The degree of pink shade varies by where it is. Under street lamps its in-your-face pink, in shadow on a dull day from around 10 metres away you can't see it, sunlight shows it up bad, garage floodlight shows it up etc, You get the idea.

The roof and bonnet are worst affected obviously, the plastic parts haven't gone, just the metal. It looks awful against the Milano spoiler I have on it.

Apparently Honda used thin, crap paint on the EP series of Civic's. Nobody seems to know for certain whether the paint is factory lacquered or not which doesn't help in trying to pinpoint the problem.



Basically, im at my whits end with this car and I just want rid of it, but cant till I do something about the fade.

Are there any products out there I can use to get rid of the faded layers of paint/lacquer because I can't afford the hundreds it'll cost to rectify the problem.

Ive put some pics on to try give you an idea of the problem but it's difficult to pick up on a camera, even a Schneider Kreuznach lens!!! The dark red parts are what it's supposed to be against the faded parts, in the pic with the black grille the proper colour is at the top of the pic to the left of the grill and the faded part is the bottom of the picture.


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

I would be tempted to give SRP a go on that. Red paint is a PITA to keep looking good,but i've seen far worse that that. SRP and a good sealant should do the trick for little money.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

From what i understand regarding milano red, its a colour clearcoat mix, as appose to single stage or coloured then clear, so it isn't always possible to bring it back to life. Something nice and oily then a wax, although a temporary measure, is a better option than machining etc to revive.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

That is oxidization. It just needs a good polish, and a feed with a nice oil glaze. 
I just did a red car yesterday actually, I used 106FA to cut through the crap and restore gloss, and then left a coat of megs #7 on to soak in for a while. It works wonders, and it's night and day with the #7. It restored the rich red back into the paint.

Just washing and waxing won't remove oxidization.


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## CodyEP2 (Mar 4, 2011)

WOW, quick turn-over of replies.
Thank you so much guys, helps alot to know what im up against.

Ive already clayed it with Meguiar's clay kit, Been thoroughly washed, polished with Meguiar's deep crystal polish and waxed with Meguiar's Carnuaba wax, it basically makes no difference cus I can still see it the same under each light light source.

Errrrr, OK, Im not even intermediate level on this stuff so the only thing I kno how to do it Clay, Polish and Wax. Please excuse me if I sound dumb but what's SRP, 106FA and Meg's No7?

So In a word the only thing I can do is disguise it with a coat of something but when the coat wears off, the problems reappears?


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

The 106FA is a machine polish, you might have to try the meguiars #205 polish by hand.

The meguiars #7 is an oil glaze. It takes the orange looking paint and makes it look red again! The Deep crystal does the same but not as good, but will do the job once you've cut through the oxidation. Follow with the wax you've got too.

SRP is an all in one, but would not recommend it for this job. It will get rid of the oxidation, but the paint will still look orange.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Is it an import? Some have clear over paint so if inported, they can get sweat / condensation between the 2 layers. Its hit and miss as to if its possible to rectify. I took a look at an import a while back and was far worse than yours tbh. Attempted both polishing and light treatment with a heat gun to coax the cloudiness out and nothing. Trial and error unfortunately with milano red but im sure someone that has dealt with this issue and got a success story from it will be along soon.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

type[r]+ said:


> That is oxidization. It just needs a good polish, and a feed with a nice oil glaze.
> I just did a red car yesterday actually, I used 106FA to cut through the crap and restore gloss, and then left a coat of megs #7 on to soak in for a while. It works wonders, and it's night and day with the #7. It restored the rich red back into the paint.
> 
> Just washing and waxing won't remove oxidization.


Was that a red civic may i ask? Like i said having read about milano red for various reasons, this blend of clear and colour means it isn't always possible to revive due to the possibility of fading BELOW the surface if that makes sense?


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Nah, commodore red (vauxhall vxr8).

I'll PM you a link to a milano red detail that will put your mind at ease!


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

stangalang said:


> Was that a red civic may i ask? Like i said having read about milano red for various reasons, this blend of clear and colour means it isn't always possible to revive due to the possibility of fading BELOW the surface if that makes sense?


This is the issue I mentioned. Its underneath so not always redeamable but there has been a few revived that werent far gone.

Surely there must of been a warranty issue with that specific colour?


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## CodyEP2 (Mar 4, 2011)

Mine's a UK model, I think the only imports you find are Type R's and mine is an SE.

I bought Auto Glym Paint Renovator ages ago and tried it, just incase it could have worked but it did nothing, I guess it weren't supposed to do anything in my case?. The only thing I don't want to do is go to town on it, get rid of the fade and have the bodywork fall apart because of it. If doing anything to it will Eg: Bring the fade back quicker and worse or expose the body to worse defects than before then I don't want to touch it because it will be worth nothing at that point and I do want to get the most money possible for it to afford another car.

I popped down to Honda to ask them, they tested the paint to make sure it was original paint, the guy said he was gonna speak to the bodyshop guys but obviously they weren't interested in fixing it cus the only cover the bodywork has it corrosion and thats not corrosion in their eyes but as far as im concerned it's a problem with their paint and they should fix it.


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## ayrshireteggy (Dec 13, 2006)

My experience with Milano Red is that it is clearcoated but that the fading is in the base coat underneath. When polishing my Integra there was never any colour going onto the pads.

Unfortunately I don't think there is anything that you can do about it. If anyone has any links to people successfully removing this fading then that would be worth seeing.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

CodyEP2 said:


> Mine's a UK model, I think the only imports you find are Type R's and mine is an SE.
> 
> I bought Auto Glym Paint Renovator ages ago and tried it, just incase it could have worked but it did nothing, I guess it weren't supposed to do anything in my case?. The only thing I don't want to do is go to town on it, get rid of the fade and have the bodywork fall apart because of it. If doing anything to it will Eg: Bring the fade back quicker and worse or expose the body to worse defects than before then I don't want to touch it because it will be worth nothing at that point and I do want to get the most money possible for it to afford another car.
> 
> I popped down to Honda to ask them, they tested the paint to make sure it was original paint, the guy said he was gonna speak to the bodyshop guys but obviously they weren't interested in fixing it cus the only cover the bodywork has it corrosion and thats not corrosion in their eyes but as far as im concerned it's a problem with their paint and they should fix it.


They will know all about the issues thats why they want nothing to do with it. Where are you based?


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## Jordan (Dec 22, 2008)

Very common issues with milano Red, it's the basecoat thats faded due to the clearcoat not protecting it from UV Rays,

happens alot on seats with Ovni Yellow paint too, it must have something to do with the metal at the same time though, as all your plastic work seems ok, and all plastic work on cupras etc are ok aswell


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## CodyEP2 (Mar 4, 2011)

Ayrshireteggy:
That's what I was afraid of, it not being possible to rectify it minus a full respray.


stangalang:
Im based in Sutton Coldfield Birmingham. Soon Lichfield Staffordshire (moving there).





With the resale value it doesn't stop at just the fade.
As my car has been vandalised/ abused by the councils refusal to resurface roads, not fill holes, it has damage. Here's a run down of all of it:

6 large shallow dents in the roof (ran over it 4 times so far)

A large white (down to primer) scratch on the drivers door

Tar all over the bottom half of the doors (I can't seem to get rid of it)

A load of white (down to primer) chips all up the drivers side because the council keep filling holes and the filling gets broken up so idiots fly down and throw stones up the side of my car.

2 scuffs (1 patch on edge of arch down to black plastic and a few little white scratch lines) on the passenger side of the rear bumper, That was my fault .

Loads of random chips out of the front bumper from, yes, stones and grit off the road.


About it I think, minus some interior defects but I can sort them out easy.


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## CodyEP2 (Mar 4, 2011)

Jordan said:


> Very common issues with milano Red, it's the basecoat thats faded due to the clearcoat not protecting it from UV Rays,
> 
> happens alot on seats with Ovni Yellow paint too, it must have something to do with the metal at the same time though, as all your plastic work seems ok, and all plastic work on cupras etc are ok aswell


So there's nothing I could have done to prevent it? and there's no way of sorting it minus taking the clear coat off to get to the paint underneath?
So respray jobbie basically! That's £1500 without stripping the car and doing a FULL respray, not worth it!


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## Jordan (Dec 22, 2008)

http://www.google.co.uk/search?clie...oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=C-dzTcnEOI7ItAbzqpCEDg

have a look at some of them, a quick browse says some panels are rescuable,

i wouldn't know personally, i drive a blue seat mate, but i hope it helps


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## CodyEP2 (Mar 4, 2011)

Jordan said:


> http://www.google.co.uk/search?clie...oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=C-dzTcnEOI7ItAbzqpCEDg
> 
> have a look at some of them, a quick browse says some panels are rescuable,
> 
> i wouldn't know personally, i drive a blue seat mate, but i hope it helps


Cheers for the link mate, saved me a load of time and stress.
Ive searched faded milano before but for some reason I didn't come up with the same stuff you found.
Either way, they're all saying it's irreversible so the only options are Vinyl wrap on it to keep it from getting worse for the next 3-7 years or full respray.

Don't have the money so no point in thinking about it.

Another issue. My bodywork is RIDDLED with swirls. I have an electric orbital buffer. Anything simple I can use to get rid of the swirls etc that actually works?, Safely?


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## Rhysbartley (Feb 10, 2011)

type[r]+ said:


> Nah, commodore red (vauxhall vxr8).
> 
> I'll PM you a link to a milano red detail that will put your mind at ease!


could you PM me this too please. my friend has a 97 civic ek in what i would expect is milano red, faded to pink in areas and would like to see if it can be fixed.


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

97 Civic is totally different. 

It's impossible to fix the fading except by respraying it.

The fading is under the lacquer, the old civics and Fords and vauxhalls had single stage finishes. 

Milano Red is clear overbase. It's the red basecoat that has faded, no correcting will ever remedy this, i'm sorry to give you bad news. It's only avoidable if it's protected before it fades.

The LSP will protect the lacquer from UV rays therefore protecting the UV getting to the RED.

The yellow Seats have the same problem, I remember people moaning that they hated solid colours but at least they are correctable, Milano red is not.

I know someone who paid 11k for a DC5, a year later it's was almost pink. Cost him circa 3k to get it resprayed.

Sorry to be the barer of bad news.


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## Rhysbartley (Feb 10, 2011)

gally said:


> 97 Civic is totally different.
> 
> It's impossible to fix the fading except by respraying it.
> 
> ...


would it not look any better??? ive seen a few people saying that it can be polished back up. and also that vw polo's used a clearcoat mix and ive had one of them back to red before.

cheers for the help though. was just about to post this on cliosport aswell!


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Well it will look better because you're bringing the lacquer back up to scratch just like any car of course it'll look better. But it'll still look faded underneath.

As he said it's the red that is now pink, different if it's just the lacquer that's fading but it's a known problem.


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## Rhysbartley (Feb 10, 2011)

gally said:


> Well it will look better because you're bringing the lacquer back up to scratch just like any car of course it'll look better. But it'll still look faded underneath.
> 
> As he said it's the red that is now pink, different if it's just the lacquer that's fading but it's a known problem.


Thanks, last question is were all 1997 ek4 civics done in milano red or were there other red options? as im unsure it is definatley milano red. and ive not been able to find this info anywhere.
Cheers


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

At the risk of being flamed im going to suugest you put a few coats of colour polish on it then seal it with a carnauba wax since you say a respray is out of the question. Its not ideal and i wouldnt normally recommend people use a colour polish but its the only thing that may improve your situation. You will obviously need to keep on top of it by redoing it every month or two but it may make it look a touch redder until you can afford to have it resprayed.


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

^ Maybe a decent option mate.


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## Rhysbartley (Feb 10, 2011)

gally said:


> ^ Maybe a decent option mate.


sounds like a good idea. any ideas where i can buy one off the shelf or any reccomendations?

would sealing it with a few coats of something like EGP be a good idea? or doesnt it have much UV protective properties?

Pretty new to all this stuff if you havent already guessed. its a lot more difficult than my black clio.


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

The colour stuff is available in halfords probably, it's not really a detailing product.


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## The Doctor (Sep 11, 2007)

Rhysbartley said:


> sounds like a good idea. any ideas where i can buy one off the shelf or any reccomendations?
> 
> would sealing it with a few coats of something like EGP be a good idea? or doesnt it have much UV protective properties?
> 
> Pretty new to all this stuff if you havent already guessed. its a lot more difficult than my black clio.


Plenty different brand colour polishes in Halfords.

You would need a non abrasive carnauba paste wax to seal it. Something like Victoria Concours may be a good choice as its red in colour to start with. Ideally Zymol Rouge may be the best choice but it may be too expensive at around 60-70 pounds.

I think the best option would be to get your red colour polish from Halfords (around 8 pound) then give the car a few coats of it and see how it looks. If it improves it then you can start thinking about which wax your going to buy to seal it.


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## Rhysbartley (Feb 10, 2011)

The Doctor said:


> Plenty different brand colour polishes in Halfords.
> 
> You would need a non abrasive carnauba paste wax to seal it. Something like Victoria Concours may be a good choice as its red in colour to start with. Ideally Zymol Rouge may be the best choice but it may be too expensive at around 60-70 pounds.
> 
> I think the best option would be to get your red colour polish from Halfords (around 8 pound) then give the car a few coats of it and see how it looks. If it improves it then you can start thinking about which wax your going to buy to seal it.


looking on the wiki page, it would appear that you could only get the ek4 (hatchback) in 1997 in roma red. does anyone know if this is clearcoat mix too or if i may be able to help my friend salvage this one?


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