# Counter balance weights



## Bikeracer (Jan 16, 2015)

I assume that fitting a 3.5" or 3" backplate to a Das6 Pro will require a new counter balance, but after searching I have not seen any offered with the smaller backing plates.

I have yet to buy a polisher and I am leaning towards getting a Rupes Duetto for the main panels and Das6 Pro with a smaller backing plate for narrower and smaller areas.

I thought I might get the Das6 Pro first to see just what the vibration and noise levels are and if it's acceptable I might just stick with that.

Allan


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

No, if should be fine with the std weight.


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## Welshquattro1 (Dec 6, 2013)

Bero said:


> No, if should be fine with the std weight.


Didn't know they did other weights for it? Have used my DAS6 pro with both 5" and 3" backing plates with no problem and haven't changed anything apart from the plates


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## saul (Nov 27, 2013)

Mine works perfectly well with all the plates. Never knew there are alternative weights.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Welshquattro1 said:


> Didn't know they did other weights for it? Have used my DAS6 pro with both 5" and 3" backing plates with no problem and haven't changed anything apart from the plates


I dont think the manufacturer does sell different ones. Someone tried selling ones that were 'recalibrated', feedback was......mixed though.

Link

Personally I don't see the point, or ever felt the need when using different size pads.


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## Welshquattro1 (Dec 6, 2013)

Bero said:


> I dont think the manufacturer does sell different ones. Someone tried selling ones that were 'recalibrated', feedback was......mixed though.


Yeah I remember that now,waited for feedback and decided against it in the end



Bero said:


> Personally I don't see the point, or ever felt the need when using different size pads.


I totally agree with you,works fine as it is when using the different size pads


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## Tonie (May 26, 2014)

Bero said:


> I dont think the manufacturer does sell different ones. Someone tried selling ones that were 'recalibrated', feedback was......mixed though.
> 
> Link
> 
> Personally I don't see the point, or ever felt the need when using different size pads.


I do see the point. Using a machine which vibrates too much will destroy the nerves in your hand and they won't grow back. Using an unbalanced DA for one day a year won't make your hands go numb, but still it annoyed me big time. I rather polished by hand, than using the unbalanced DA. On top of that, you want the pad to move, not the machine, so it is less effective as well.

Suspal gave me an e-mail address from some (very friendly) guy in Croatia or thereabout who makes new counterweights. In my opinion, it is absolutely worth it and that's an understatement.

If I remember correctly, CYC is working on a dedicated spot polishing machine, similar to the griot's mini, but accepting 230V. Not sure on it's status.

Tonie


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Tonie said:


> I do see the point. Using a machine which vibrates too much will destroy the nerves in your hand and they won't grow back. Using an unbalanced DA for one day a year won't make your hands go numb, but still it annoyed me big time. I rather polished by hand, than using the unbalanced DA. On top of that, you want the pad to move, not the machine, so it is less effective as well.
> 
> Suspal gave me an e-mail address from some (very friendly) guy in Croatia or thereabout who makes new counterweights. In my opinion, it is absolutely worth it and that's an understatement.
> 
> ...


Ok...i'll say what I really think. Less vibration is totally counter productive for a DA, this is the reactive force of the pad oscillating, less vibration means less pad moment which means less work being done at the pad face! Go ahead and make a balanced weight that causes no vibration and you'll still be polishing a panel this time next year.

The intensity of vibration is nowhere near enough to cause a weekend warrior concern....and I highly suspect a professional who uses one day to day. I don't even recall a measurement for vibration in DA paperwork (Meguires anyway).


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## Bikeracer (Jan 16, 2015)

Hmm....

As always there are different opinions about anything on any forum and everyone usually tries to help.

I've taken on board the different replies,however I am concerned that a machine which vibrates to much could turn out to be unusable for me personally even if doesn't bother another person.

I can remember watching one of Junkman's videos where he said that it was important to match the different counterweights between the 5" and 6" backing plates to lessen vibration.

Allan


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## Tonie (May 26, 2014)

Like I said; Using an unbalanced DA for one day a year won't make your hands go numb.

For the other comment, you are wrong. Every little bit of machine displacement will reduce the displacement of the pad. Might not be a lot in this case, but still, having a machine with zero vibrations is the goal. Think of it this way, if you hold the pad steady, turn on the machine, the head of the machine will show the orbits.

Reducing the vibration is not rocket science either. The only thing you have to ensure is that the centre of mass of the backing plate, pad, counterweight and spindle is aligned with the centre of the driven axle.

I have it and it cost me about 20 euro's and I will repeat again: I think it is absolutely worth it. I was not aware of the thread you linked when I bought it, I bought it because on here you can find many comments like: Contact Suspal, he will sort you out. From different people. I later found that thread and I was shocked when I read it. It was however locked at that time. 

@Allan, maybe contact CYC first to find out about the progress on the spot polisher.


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## Bikeracer (Jan 16, 2015)

From personal experience with unrelated things concerning rotating machinery it's always been the goal to reduce vibrations because vibrations lower useable power.

I have read the thread about the different counterbalance and the video of the original counterweight with the small backing plate showed what I think would be unacceptable vibrations for me.

So I think I will just get the Duetto for now and see how I go with that.

Allann


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## Bikeracer (Jan 16, 2015)

Hi Tonie,

Thanks for the PM.

I have got and read the message in my email inbox,but I haven't enough posts on here to reply.

Thanks again.

Allan


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## Tonie (May 26, 2014)

Thought so. Now you should be able to send PM's I assume? 

Good luck and enjoy.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Tonie said:


> Like I said; Using an unbalanced DA for one day a year won't make your hands go numb.
> *
> For the other comment, you are wrong. Every little bit of machine displacement will reduce the displacement of the pad. Might not be a lot in this case, but still, having a machine with zero vibrations is the goal. Think of it this way, if you hold the pad steady, turn on the machine, the head of the machine will show the orbits.*
> 
> ...


The vibration is a function of Newtons 3rd law. Reduced vibration means reduced pad work from the secondary action (oscillation), you can't have oscillation without a vibration unless you have a cancelling force e.g. a second pad moving in the opposite direction with equal magnitude.

If it was so easy to implement why wouldn't one of the multi national company like Meguires do this?! It would be a huge differentiator for the 1st company to manage! In fact if you have solved the vibration in DA machines 'issue' I'm sure they would be interested in contracting you for a princely sum!

If you want to minimise vibration you need a rotary, then all you work against is the reactive torque and not the torque and oscillation of a DA. :thumb:


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## Tonie (May 26, 2014)

The vibrations I am talking about are caused by moving the centre of mass of the DA mechanism about. If you align this centre of mass with the driven axle of your machine, you are fine and your machine works optimally, regardless of the throw!

What I don't understand is that you give the answer yourself, but still disagree:


Bero said:


> (…) you can't have oscillation without a vibration unless you have a cancelling force e.g. a second pad moving in the opposite direction with equal magnitude.


That is the sole purpose of having a counterweight in your DA, because a second pad won't fit. This counterweight is designed for a certain weight of your plate/pad combo, so it needs changing if you change the weight of that.

It is too simple that nobody would ever pay me for that


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## gaz1 (May 17, 2018)

Sorry to open up an old wound but did anyone in the UK find these counter weights any where as I want to turn my kestrel in to a dedicated 3" machine


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## gaz1 (May 17, 2018)

Hi guys just to let you know I've managed to sort this counterweight issue out...
Cheers gaz


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