# Turtle Wax Ice Seal N Shine - New Benchmark?



## Sheep

I found a test online between Meguiars HCW, Mothers CMX, and this new Turtle Wax Ice Seal n Shine where they are all subjected to the same APC, Fallout, and Acidic Wheel Cleaner (!). Needles to say, this Turtle Wax stuff looks like a game changer. Nothing seems to budge it on the panel, and it's application is as easy as any other spray sealant/wax. Have a look below.






I've ordered a bottle already, for $16.00 canadian (split an order with a co-worker to get free shipping). They're out of stock right now but I'll post up a review once I get my hands on it.

Anyone else used this yet?


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## tosh

I've got the UK equivalent - Hybrid Sealant Hydrophobic Wax
https://www.turtlewax.com/en-gb/our-products/hybrid/turtle-wax-hybrid-sealant-hydrophobic-wax/

Can't get definite answer whether it's the same product with a different name. I know TurtleWax didn't do well with the 'ICE' name in the UK, and they basically don't want to name anything ICE any more over here.

But it's very easy to apply and buff off. Leaves the paint very slick, haven't had a chance to test longevity.


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## TonyHill

Impressive! Another BSD product perhaps, cheap as chips but very effective by the looks of that video :thumb:


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## Sheep

TonyHill said:


> Impressive! Another BSD product perhaps, cheap as chips but very effective by the looks of that video :thumb:


I think it's a bit stronger/tougher than BSD. In the states this stuff is like $7 US a bottle. I am really curious as to how long it lasts with proper up keep.


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## bannan

For £5.12 from carpartsforless it would be rude not to at that price! 

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Mac-

Got a link as I couldn't see it anywhere..... 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## Sheep

tosh said:


> I've got the UK equivalent - Hybrid Sealant Hydrophobic Wax
> https://www.turtlewax.com/en-gb/our-products/hybrid/turtle-wax-hybrid-sealant-hydrophobic-wax/
> 
> Can't get definite answer whether it's the same product with a different name. I know TurtleWax didn't do well with the 'ICE' name in the UK, and they basically don't want to name anything ICE any more over here.
> 
> But it's very easy to apply and buff off. Leaves the paint very slick, haven't had a chance to test longevity.


Why is that? Is there a cultural conflict or people just didn't' like them?


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## Sheep

Mac- said:


> Got a link as I couldn't see it anywhere.....
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


Should be in the first post.... Search on youtube for Pan The Organizer, and his comparison video. Waxmode also has a video where he subjects it to various degreasers.


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## tosh

Sheep said:


> Why is that? Is there a cultural conflict or people just didn't' like them?


When TW had the ICE line in the UK many years back, all the products didn't do well (by Turtle Wax standards). So they were all sold off at a discount, and the ICE line was no more. Carried on elsewhere though.

So I can't see ICE coming back to the UK, but if it's the same product with a different name (seems to be the Hybrid range in the UK) we'll never know.

If you look at the videos on turtlewax.com for each of the products, they were all done in the same US studio, even for the UK product, so that's why I suspect it's the same (in this particular case).

e.g. look at this ICE Seal and Shine USA video
https://www.turtlewax.com/our-products/ice/turtle-wax-ice-seal-n-shine/

then look at this video from the UK site
https://www.turtlewax.com/en-gb/our-products/hybrid/turtle-wax-hybrid-sealant-hydrophobic-wax/

Same product description, same application, same test - the only thing that's different, is that they've used a 'european' Mazda car as the vehicle. Even uses the same text script and voice over actor.

That UK product is £6, just a smaller bottle (for us European's with normal sized cars and hands).

But we'll never know or find out; I just have my suspicions.


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## tosh

bannan said:


> For £5.12 from carpartsforless it would be rude not to at that price!
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


Yep - I got the Dry and Shine as well, as a bargain version of Sonax Spray and Seal.

They also sell this weird sponge contraption, which appears to be a green scrub daddy for getting oil off your hands:

https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4l/p/-/-/-/-/?PRR.TW50687&0&cc5_134

I hear the RedLine wheel cleaner is very good - haven't tried it through.


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## Sheep

tosh said:


> That UK product is £6, just a smaller bottle (for us European's with normal sized cars and hands).
> 
> But we'll never know or find out; I just have my suspicions.


Have you seen trumps hands?

When I get some, I can send you a small sample. Drink both and see if they taste the same.


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## Metblackrat

https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4...MI6LLyzsPQ4gIVzbztCh2P0g6TEAQYASABEgIZlfD_BwE

Use code SUMMER15 and it comes to just over a fiver delivered.


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## Mac-

Thanks all for the link, I've screenshot it and will be going in to my local eurocarparts for them to price match it. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## Bristle Hound

Metblackrat said:


> https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4...MI6LLyzsPQ4gIVzbztCh2P0g6TEAQYASABEgIZlfD_BwE
> 
> Use code SUMMER15 and it comes to just over a fiver delivered.


Ordered - Be rude not too :thumb:


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## Sheep

Damn you guys and your stock. Canada is always the last to get products (we just finally got Megs HCW, and it's $48CAD a bottle).


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## tosh

Sheep said:


> Damn you guys and your stock. Canada is always the last to get products (we just finally got Megs HCW, and it's $48CAD a bottle).


Don't detail supply or someone like that ship to Canada? Have relations broken down, or has it always been that way?

Where does Pan get his stuff (or is he not in .ca?)

Probably the same as here; Megs won't supply you if you compete against the local distributor...


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## tosh

Sheep said:


> Have you seen trumps hands?
> 
> When I get some, I can send you a small sample. Drink both and see if they taste the same.


(I'm glad someone gets my sense of humour)

I can post you 100ml of mine; just PM me your address; let us know if it's the same as your USA version. It'll be easier that way around.

Looking at my Turtle Wax bottle, it's manufactured in the UK under licence. So it's a formula they send around the world, and the local distributors mix it and sell it. Unless I've read that completely wrong. I'm sure it says 'manufactured under licence' and not 'imported'. Too late to go to the garage and check.


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## tosh

Jimbo apparently has an interview with the TW Ice chemist coming up. It appears they have hit on a formula that’s cheap, easy and detergent resistant (similar to BSD) but without the grabbiness of Sonax.


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## 66Rob

I can also recommend the new Turtle Wax Jet Black, seems to add a great deal of gloss and has excellent water behaviour. 

Again there seems to be an equivalent version in the US.


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## cleslie

I ordered and bottle from Euro Carparts Ebay store after seeing Pan's review. Can't be bad for the money. There's a few ICE products that are sold in the US that we don't get that are decent. Don't see why they don't sell them here.


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## Sheep

tosh said:


> Don't detail supply or someone like that ship to Canada? Have relations broken down, or has it always been that way?
> 
> Where does Pan get his stuff (or is he not in .ca?)
> 
> Probably the same as here; Megs won't supply you if you compete against the local distributor...


Pan is in the US, same as waxmode.

Which supplier is detail supply? Turtle wax is mostly sold in retail stores here, but they're not stocking this yet (walmart and amazon have listings, walamrt out of stock, amazon expensive shipping).


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## Sheep

tosh said:


> (I'm glad someone gets my sense of humour)
> 
> I can post you 100ml of mine; just PM me your address; let us know if it's the same as your USA version. It'll be easier that way around.
> 
> Looking at my Turtle Wax bottle, it's manufactured in the UK under licence. So it's a formula they send around the world, and the local distributors mix it and sell it. Unless I've read that completely wrong. I'm sure it says 'manufactured under licence' and not 'imported'. Too late to go to the garage and check.


I have an order put through already, so i'll wait to see what happens with that. Thanks for the offer though! I plan to test this side by side with BSD.


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## tosh

Sheep said:


> Pan is in the US, same as waxmode.
> 
> Which supplier is detail supply? Turtle wax is mostly sold in retail stores here, but they're not stocking this yet (walmart and amazon have listings, walamrt out of stock, amazon expensive shipping).


I may have that wrong; could be Shine Supply. I've had stuff from Autopia and Autogeek shipped internationally.

Walmart will get it, just have to wait I suppose.

The turtlewax site says CanadianTire and BestBuy should have it (including lots of others)


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## Del-GTi

The Payday17 code still works on carparts4less website so you get it for £5. 

I watched the exact same video a few days ago and wondered if the Turtle Wax Sealant available in the UK is the same stuff. 

It does look very good, I was surprised not only at how well it held up but at how easily the other two were removed. I expected them to be a bit more resilient than they were. Did make me a tad sceptical. 

I ordered a bottle of the UK stuff to try. For £5 it’s worth a punt.


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## Sheep

tosh said:


> I may have that wrong; could be Shine Supply. I've had stuff from Autopia and Autogeek shipped internationally.
> 
> Walmart will get it, just have to wait I suppose.
> 
> The turtlewax site says CanadianTire and BestBuy should have it (including lots of others)


They're stockists, but these products haven't made it to Canada yet. Autogylm is sold at Canadian Tire (exclusively) and it took about a year for Polar Blast to show up. I did email them about that, maybe I should do that about the Turtle Wax as well.


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## tosh

Del-GTi said:


> It does look very good, I was surprised not only at how well it held up but at how easily the other two were removed. I expected them to be a bit more resilient than they were. Did make me a tad sceptical.


Pan is quite late to this; there have been many other videos about how detergent resistant TW is. They have obviously hit on a formula that works.

I used to think it didn't matter about these Degreaser and Iron remover tests; then again, I use Insect Remover, Snow Foam and even TFR during the summer/winter so anything that puts up a fight has got to be good (good for me).

I'd like to see Forensic Detailing compare this against BSD and Britemax Remax.


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## Brian1612

For £5 may as well give it a go.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## DIESEL DAVE

Bristle Hound said:


> Ordered - Be rude not too :thumb:


Me too


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## washingitagain

They've had a nice little surge of orders now which I just added to! Can't argue with a fiver!


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## Deano9

Just put my order in. For a fiver, if its sh!t, it can go on the wife's old fiesta!


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## nickka

Mine has literally just arrived...can't wait to try :thumb:


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## Mikesphotaes

Me too!


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## macks

Be good to hear everyone’s feedback on this!


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## HEADPHONES

Thanks for the heads up OP and also tosh for the link to carparts4less link.
Ordered me one :thumb:
My brother and friends have also ordered some.
Only problem is I only recently ordered a US gallon of Chemical Guys V07 Hybrid Sealant to mix 50:50 with Sonax BSD as a drying aid.
Was really happy with it but now you guys have tempted me to buy EVEN MORE products :lol:


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## Wade.K10

Just stuck in my order. :thumb:


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## Sheep

macks said:


> Be good to hear everyone's feedback on this!


I plan on testing it against BSD and maybe Wet Coat (Have a bottle as a gift, see if they'll let me borrow a spray for a test). I need to win the lottery so I can buy all the things and test them.


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## Mac-

No need to wait for an order, eurocarparts will price match at their service counter. Got mine today I'll give it a whirl at the weekend. 

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## percymon

Got to be worth a try for a fiver delivered - seems like a nice easy on/off product for door shuts. Failing that i'll give it the lad for his Fiesta


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## sevenfourate

Ordered.

Less than 2 sausages and chips in my local.....


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## Sheep

Mine has Shipped! Should have it sometime around June 10th.


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## KojakLives

Pan has posted a follow-up video, with links for the product for US/Canada/UK. His UK link is for the TW Sealant Hydrophobic Spray previously mentioned on this thread.


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## waqasr

Just used this today. I first tried to apply it like a sealant by spreading using a foam applicator, bad idea very bad bad and stubborn smears. Applied like a normal QD and much better application nice and slick which is a nice change from my usual BSD.

Ive just wetsanded and corrected this side of the car, so take the results with a pinch of salt.

20190606_165446 by joe blogggs, on Flickr


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## Andyblue

waqasr said:


> Just used this today. I first tried to apply it like a sealant by spreading using a foam applicator, bad idea very bad bad and stubborn smears. Applied like a normal QD and much better application nice and slick which is a nice change from my usual BSD.
> 
> Ive just wetsanded and corrected this side of the car, so take the results with a pinch of salt.
> 
> 20190606_165446 by joe blogggs, on Flickr


When you say normal QD - you mean spray 1 panel, wipe and buff off ?

How did it spread - was there any grading ?

How did the paint work feel after buffing ?


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## waqasr

Exacly that Spray 1 panel wipe and buff off

It spread rather well but yes the removal was not hard by any means but no the easiest, I experienced some streaking which took further buffing to remove.

After buffing it feels really nice and silky, Not a slick as say BH DSW but smooth like silk. Not done any beading checks yet but from the videos (provided this is exactly the same as the US one just change of name) it should perform really well.


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## Andyblue

waqasr said:


> Exacly that Spray 1 panel wipe and buff off
> 
> It spread rather well but yes the removal was not hard by any means but no the easiest, I experienced some streaking which took further buffing to remove.
> 
> After buffing it feels really nice and silky, Not a slick as say BH DSW but smooth like silk. Not done any beading checks yet but from the videos (provided this is exactly the same as the US one just change of name) it should perform really well.


That's great, thanks :thumb:


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## v_r_s

So this is a BSD?

Basically apply after a wash when wet and then dry. Or apply dry lightly the. Buff off ?


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## cleslie

You'd use it as you would BSD, either as a drying aid or on a dry car. It's going to give protection in a spray form which is what BSD is doing.


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## M1UDE

Mac- said:


> No need to wait for an order, eurocarparts will price match at their service counter. Got mine today I'll give it a whirl at the weekend.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


Presume you just show them the PAYDAY17 price on Carparts website, and they match it?


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## Mac-

M1UDE said:


> Presume you just show them the PAYDAY17 price on Carparts website, and they match it?


Exactly that, I'm on good terms with my local branch, popped in with a screenshot and Shane price matched it on the spot.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## Sheep

From what I've heard it's supposed to be applied dry. You can try it wet but I will be using it dry like a regular QD. 

Interesting to hear that using an applicator made it worse, did you try a MF applicator as well?


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## Scotty B

I just bought a bottle, at £5 if it performs as Pan says then its the bargain of the year. I'll use a MF applicator and apply dry. 
I


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## washingitagain

Mine arrived by next day delivery (DHL) from carparts4less. Amazing they make any money doing it for a fiver.


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## Mikesphotaes

Just arrived as I was drying the car.

The bonnet dried very streaky so thought I would give the Turtlewax a go.

Sprayed it on lightly and it took ages to wipe off. Didn't make any difference to the streaks, if anything worse!

Had to do the bonnet again with Infinity Wax and even that wasn't easy, probably on top of the sealant.

All in all, a fiver down the pan!


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## tosh

Yes, the bottle says “clean and dry your car”

So it’s not a Detailer, it isn’t designed to clean. Spray your towel once, and one on the panel; spread it around, flip the towel and buff off. 

It’s very good stuff.


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## Mikesphotaes

tosh said:


> Yes, the bottle says "clean and dry your car"
> 
> So it's not a Detailer, it isn't designed to clean. Spray your towel once, and one on the panel; spread it around, flip the towel and buff off.
> 
> It's very good stuff.


Actually the bottle says "Surfaces can be wet or dry".

Not impressed!


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## percymon

Mikesphotaes said:


> Actually the bottle says "Surfaces can be wet or dry".
> 
> Not impressed!


No disrepect, but if you had streaks to start with you hardly had a good starting point to test the product. BSD can be grabby and streaky if over applied / warm panels so don;t think this TW product is any worse in that respect


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## Mikesphotaes

percymon said:


> No disrepect, but if you had streaks to start with you hardly had a good starting point to test the product. BSD can be grabby and streaky if over applied / warm panels so don;t think this TW product is any worse in that respect


What I should have done was use BSD on one bit of the bonnet and TW on the other.

I have used BSD to remove streaks in the past with success, which is why I reached for the TW this time.


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## rtjc

It really isn't designed with any cleaning in mind. If it works great, But if it doesn't this isn't a negative of the product. It can be used wet of course but as a drying aid to a CLEAN car. It's an LSP sealant. Used dry initially will make further applications after washing even more enjoyable. I've been playing about with this and it's a great product. Especially for the price.


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## Derek Mc

Very keen to see if UK and US versions are actually the same, but for a fiver it would be easily worth a punt


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## Deano9

Just took my delivery. However the weather is fotten this weekend so looks like I'll be saving it for next week.

Plus the missus is awaynext weekend, so gives me chance to go all out!


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## gordonpuk

Forensic Detailing Channel:-


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## tosh

Mikesphotaes said:


> Actually the bottle says "Surfaces can be wet or dry".
> 
> Not impressed!


Sorry

The video does say start with a clean and dry car. My mistake.

Did you spray it onto one wet panel at a time and buff with a drying cloth? (I've just checked my bottle)

You can send it to me if you like.


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## tosh

gordonpuk said:


> Forensic Detailing Channel:-


He makes a good point about the trigger as well; why people sell a £20 Detailer with a 10p trigger I don't know? The turtle wax has a good pre-compression trigger with a fine spray.


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## Sheep

gordonpuk said:


> Forensic Detailing Channel:-
> Why are Turtle Wax giving this stuff away? - YouTube


Well that didn't take long. I will try to make a video as well showing the difference between a couple products, but I'm pretty new to video editing and the likes, and flickr has been difficult to upload to lately.


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## trv8

Couldn't make my mind-up on how many to buy.....so I've got 4 coming on the way to me :thumb:.


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## Andyblue

Mikesphotaes said:


> Just arrived as I was drying the car.
> 
> The bonnet dried very streaky so thought I would give the Turtlewax a go.
> 
> Sprayed it on lightly and it took ages to wipe off. Didn't make any difference to the streaks, if anything worse!
> 
> Had to do the bonnet again with Infinity Wax and even that wasn't easy, probably on top of the sealant.
> 
> All in all, a fiver down the pan!


Oh - been looking at this and trying to decide whether to try it or not...

Be interested in your thoughts if you try it again :thumb:


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## Andyblue

trv8 said:


> Couldn't make my mind-up on how many to buy.....so I've got 4 coming on the way to me :thumb:.


:lol: hope you like it :thumb:


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## TonyHill

Who'd have thought Turtle Wax would attract so much interest lol!! 
Going to have to try it myself now. Is it in Halfords??


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## Mikesphotaes

tosh said:


> Sorry
> 
> The video does say start with a clean and dry car. My mistake.
> 
> Did you spray it onto one wet panel at a time and buff with a drying cloth? (I've just checked my bottle)
> 
> You can send it to me if you like.


Nope, the reason I was using it was the streaks on the bonnet when I dried the car.

I sprayed it on to the dry car, half bonnet at a time and tried to wipe it off.

Not very successfully, I may add!


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## Mikesphotaes

Andyblue said:


> Oh - been looking at this and trying to decide whether to try it or not...
> 
> Be interested in your thoughts if you try it again :thumb:


I will probably try it again, though not for removing streaks!


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## J306TD

Just ordered from CP4L fiver delivered 

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## Deano9

I'll be using it as a drying aid.
I'll post up my results next weekend.


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## alfajim

At that price, I'm in.


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## tosh

Mikesphotaes said:


> Nope, the reason I was using it was the streaks on the bonnet when I dried the car.
> 
> I sprayed it on to the dry car, half bonnet at a time and tried to wipe it off.
> 
> Not very successfully, I may add!


Sounds like it was interfering with something else on your bonnet then, perhaps a previous wax sealant or even shampoo residue?


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## N Nun

I will hopefully be using it tomorrow, if it stays dry. Will post pics if I can figure out how to do that


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## Andyblue

N Nun said:


> I will hopefully be using it tomorrow, if it stays dry. Will post pics if I can figure out how to do that


Looking forward to your thoughts...

I use Tapatalk and it's easy to upload photos


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## graeme

J306TD said:


> Just ordered from CP4L fiver delivered
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


Me too


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## EJs

graeme said:


> Me too


Me three


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## H-M3

Me too


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## sistersvisions

Ive just jumped on the bandwagon and ordered some, plus a bottle of Turtle Wax Jet Black..worth a punt for a fiver too...


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## Kadir

Ordered. Thanks guys. I didn't even know about CP4L. Is this site affiliated with Euro Car Parts? The sites look very similar!


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## N Nun

Yes they are the same company.


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## jdo

Thanks to all for the info and initial reviews of this product as well as the details of the bargain from carparts4less - needless to say an order has been placed


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## sevenfourate

Used the Turtle wax Hydrophobic Sealant Wax from CarPart4less for the first time today - on the daily:

Car was single stage machined and waxed / sealed about a month ago.

Today i snow-foamed, cleaned and dried (Using a little as a drying aid). Then gave a single coat with a couple of microfibres upon finishing.

On this car i normally use Sonax BSD. Probably looks a little glossier and is a little slicker for sure.......


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## M1UDE

Order placed with CP4L...£5 delivered

The product seems to withstand quite a punishment from various “torture tests” so thought it would do well on a daily driver


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## Derek Mc

Just grabbed one myself, why not eh??


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## Mclarxn

Be interested to see what it's like mixed with almighty BSD. 

Best case scenario being it is as hydrophobic of BSD with the durability/slickness from Turtlewax which could be an absolute peach of a spray "sealant".

If i do pick some up, which i think is inevitable at this point, ill try the mix on a test panel if anyone is curious.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## tosh

It looks to last longer or the same as BSD so I don’t see the need to mix it, personally. Unless you want the mix to be more grabby (which it why we mixed BSD in the first place)


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## N Nun

Finished my car today and applied the turtle wax, I did 2 coats.

Was easy enough to apply, it did leave 1-2 marks but that is where is was getting tired and doing too much at once and it dried out

Overall it did ok. Paint was smooth before applying and did get a little smoother but nothing major, this was a little disappointing.

Gloss was decent, again not massively more than before, the paint was in good condition.

It has just rained and the beading is nice, also lots of sheeting.





































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## N Nun

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## N Nun

Are the pics blurry? They are not on my phone but seem to be when uploaded


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## davidcraggs

I’m going to order some but before I do has anyone got any other recommendations for shampoo (Meguiars, Chemical Guys) to tag on to my order?

Thanks.


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## matty.13

davidcraggs said:


> I'm going to order some but before I do has anyone got any other recommendations for shampoo (Meguiars, Chemical Guys) to tag on to my order?
> 
> Thanks.


Meguiars hyper wash is a good shampoo

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Mclarxn

tosh said:


> It looks to last longer or the same as BSD so I don't see the need to mix it, personally. Unless you want the mix to be more grabby (which it why we mixed BSD in the first place)


More curiosity than anything else really. Seen success with other BSD mixes so, given the unbelievably cheap price of both, thought its worth a shot! Heres to hoping for a gem!

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## sevenfourate

Mclarxn said:


> More curiosity than anything else really. Seen success with other BSD mixes so, given the unbelievably cheap price of both, thought its worth a shot! Heres to hoping for a gem!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


Tried mixing with BSD today [50/50] and applied to the wife's car. Nothing revolutionary IMO. Still felt quite grabby; although the depth of gloss is a shade deeper than BSD alone IMO. See what happens when it rains - and how longevity goes.......


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## Citromark

Picked two bottles up yesterday and gave it a try today , a dream to apply and remove leaving a nice gloss . I'll keep a check on longevity. 

Mark


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## bigkahunaburger

Mikesphotaes said:


> Nope, the reason I was using it was the streaks on the bonnet when I dried the car.
> 
> I sprayed it on to the dry car, half bonnet at a time and tried to wipe it off.
> 
> Not very successfully, I may add!


It can't remove streaks, Mike, because it is only a spray wax. You need a quick detailer, which usually has a cleaning action, to remove streaks or mild water spotting etc. A wax/sealant would just seal your streaks in.


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## scooobydont

Apex detailing seems to like it as well:


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## Bristle Hound

Use code MVC19 to get it for £4.88 delivered :thumb:

How low can you go ? :lol:


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## Deano9

Bristle Hound said:


> Use code MVC19 to get it for £4.88 delivered :thumb:
> 
> How low can you go ? :lol:


Might as well get another bottle in then


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## percymon

Used it yesterday evening as a quick drying aid (solid black paint). Against BSD..

> Trigger spray produces a much finer mist than BSD so far easier to spray onto the drying towel with even coverage.
> as a result feels much easier to spread than BSD
> no streaking, even with the gentlest of wipes 
> gloss seems OK (hard to compare to BSD as i've not used BSD on a black car for over 5 years
> it's due to p down today, so will see what the water behavior is like - looking a N Nuns photos i#d say its not going to be as good as BSD


----------



## TonyHill

percymon said:


> Used it yesterday evening as a quick drying aid (solid black paint). Against BSD..
> 
> > Trigger spray produces a much finer mist than BSD so far easier to spray onto the drying towel with even coverage.
> > as a result feels much easier to spread than BSD
> > no streaking, even with the gentlest of wipes
> > gloss seems OK (hard to compare to BSD as i've not used BSD on a black car for over 5 years
> > it's due to p down today, so will see what the water behavior is like - looking a N Nuns photos i#d say its not going to be as good as BSD


In my experience of BSD it was the older versions that were slightly grabby, the blue version is a breeze to use, especially as a drying aid :thumb:


----------



## percymon

TonyHill said:


> In my experience of BSD it was the older versions that were slightly grabby, the blue version is a breeze to use, especially as a drying aid :thumb:


I never had an issue with grabbiness on any version of BSD irrespective of the time of year - i guess it depends what you are applying it over, how much product, panel temperature, type of microfibre etc etc


----------



## GleemSpray

TonyHill said:


> In my experience of BSD it was the older versions that were slightly grabby, the blue version is a breeze to use, especially as a drying aid :thumb:


Same here - i have only used the newer, blue, version of BSD and only really as a drying aid.

It feels just as easy to use as other spray waxs and I see it as a bonus that it *could* be used on a dry car at a pinch, but have other proper QD's that i use for dry cars.

Only downside is the spray bottle, but its not a major issue imo.

I still have 2+ bottles of BSD to get through so won't be buying the Turtle Wax at this time, but it's 
great to see another wonder spray appearing with the Turtle Wax, especially at such a low price.


----------



## roscopervis

I think they are different products - I know BSD is a do it all wonder, but ultimately it is, and is sold as a QD.

The Turtlewax product might be a spray on product, but I reckon it is a sealant without the cleaning skills of BSD. I'm going to experiment, but I think most of the issues that people will encounter will be from trying to use it as a QD on top of fresh waxes or wet protected paint. It will work best on bare paint so it can bond.


----------



## Supa Koopa

I seem to be in the minority, but I had horrible streaking when I tried it. I only did half the bonnet and it was crap so I gave up and put it on the shelf. 

I'll probably give it another try in a week or two to see if it's any better as I'd very recently coated it in PNS so they might not like each other.


----------



## Derek Mc

I am just chuckling at what is going through the heads of the marketing and sales department a CP4L as they have a sudden run on grit guards so they reorder tens of thousands next it is Turtle Wax so they clear out the local distributor :lol::lol:


----------



## roscopervis

Supa Koopa said:


> I seem to be in the minority, but I had horrible streaking when I tried it. I only did half the bonnet and it was crap so I gave up and put it on the shelf.
> 
> I'll probably give it another try in a week or two to see if it's any better as I'd very recently coated it in PNS so they might not like each other.


As per my post above. It isn't a QD, it would be used instead of the PNS not the BSD.


----------



## Rayaan

Anyone care to post up the product code for this because I can't seem to find it even on ECP


----------



## tosh

Rayaan said:


> Anyone care to post up the product code for this because I can't seem to find it even on ECP


It's gone - you'll have to check eBay or Amazon now


----------



## M1UDE

My parcel arrived from CP4L today minus the TW hybrid sealant wax, phoned to convey my displeasure and was told they were low on stock. My order was placed on Sunday when there was stock showing. Apparently it’s to arrive in 2-3 days...won’t hold my breath though 

Won’t be ordering again from them


----------



## trv8

M1UDE said:


> My order was placed on Sunday when there was stock showing. Apparently it's to arrive in 2-3 days...won't hold my breath though
> 
> Won't be ordering again from them


Placed my order on the Saturday (stock showing) had an e-mail from them saying I won't be getting it for 2 WEEKS .


----------



## Deano9

552777331

That's what's on my invoice from carparts4less


----------



## astormatt

trv8 said:


> Placed my order on the Saturday (stock showing) had an e-mail from them saying I won't be getting it for 2 WEEKS .


Same here, kinda expecting an email in 2 weeks to say they have cancelled the order.


----------



## SwordfishCoupe

I have had a similar email, I ordered Friday night while in stock and been told 4-5 days on an email today. I think their stock counting system is a little bit off!


----------



## tosh

Meguiars HCW is down to £16 at Halfords, and they have a 10% off code for fathers day


----------



## astormatt

Just ordered some from ECP....£7.14 delivered with discount code....


----------



## Derek Mc

M1UDE said:


> My parcel arrived from CP4L today minus the TW hybrid sealant wax, phoned to convey my displeasure and was told they were low on stock. My order was placed on Sunday when there was stock showing. Apparently it's to arrive in 2-3 days...won't hold my breath though
> 
> Won't be ordering again from them


I just logged on to my account and mine shows as dispatched (as a solo order) so be interesting to see if I get it in a couple of days or so


----------



## bannan

I have just applied some Sonax BSD and TW Seal & Shine to the Mrs' Bonnet with all this rain forcast I will see how it fairs. The car hadn't been waxed for a good while and BSD' a good few month ago, so there was no beading before hand. Lets see how it fairs over the next few washes/weeks









Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## ajm83

astormatt said:


> Same here, kinda expecting an email in 2 weeks to say they have cancelled the order.


Same here, it does say in the email that they "have managed to confirm further stock of the item above" so fingers crossed...


----------



## tosh

66Rob said:


> I can also recommend the new Turtle Wax Jet Black, seems to add a great deal of gloss and has excellent water behaviour.
> 
> Again there seems to be an equivalent version in the US.


Looking at the bottle/description - it appears to be a tinted version of the standard hydrophobic wax.


----------



## J306TD

Derek Mc said:


> I just logged on to my account and mine shows as dispatched (as a solo order) so be interesting to see if I get it in a couple of days or so


Ordered mine Saturday. Still says processing. No email from them

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## 66Rob

tosh said:


> Looking at the bottle/description - it appears to be a tinted version of the standard hydrophobic wax.


Just applied to our Ibiza, impressive finish.


----------



## M1UDE

Derek Mc said:


> I just logged on to my account and mine shows as dispatched (as a solo order) so be interesting to see if I get it in a couple of days or so


...my account said it had been dispatched but quite clearly hasn't 

As mentioned by another poster ... creative stocktaking


----------



## Mac-

If you've got a eurocarparts local you could always check stock locally.


----------



## stonejedi

M1UDE said:


> As mentioned by another poster ... creative stocktaking


Totally agree...SJ.


----------



## Sheep

I will have mine tomorrow, so I should be able to put together a quick test between the 3 (BSD, SnS, and another ceramic spray from a different supplier called Crystal Brite). I'll an inital beading/ sheeting test, and then when i have some time do a durability test with various soaps and panel wipes.


----------



## tosh

Amazon still have 2 for £15

Sheep: have you just coined the new acronym for TW SnS? Or do we have to call it SHW?


----------



## Sheep

tosh said:


> Amazon still have 2 for £15
> 
> Sheep: have you just coined the new acronym for TW SnS? Or do we have to call it SHW?


I guess so, SnS just rolls off the tongue nicer. You can refer to your as SHW, but being a turtle wax product I think this will blow up more in North America, where it's referred to as Seal and Shine.

Honestly I would have used a better name than that, but at least the acronym is good.


----------



## cleslie

I used it on my crash helmet plus the gloss black wheels on my bike. Had no issues at all and left a nice gloss. Found it slicker on the crash helmet after leaving over night interestingly. I've also used on all the doors shuts and rain channels around the boot and bonnet on the car. I quite like the stuff and can see this being very useful for winter tops ups.


----------



## N Nun

Had it on the car for a few days now. It has rained heavily the last few days and it still has nice beading. As mentioned above it does feel slicker now than when I first applied it.

Once you get above 10 mph you can see all the water sheeting off the car and in now time at all the water is all gone. For £5 you cant go wrong, just need to see how long it lasts.

I had some bird poo on the car, I planned to wipe it off when I got to work but it had slid off within a few miles of driving (the car was wet from the rain).

I think when i come to snowfoam I could get away with a contactless wash which was m aim at the start.


----------



## minotaur uk

cant see this on euro car parts of car parts for less. Where is everyone else getting it from ?


----------



## Deano9

Your probably better off searching through Google.
When I used the search function on those sites it wouldn't show up.


----------



## davidcraggs

minotaur uk said:


> cant see this on euro car parts of car parts for less. Where is everyone else getting it from ?


I can't see it either now but it was there a few days ago...


----------



## Derek Mc

minotaur uk said:


> cant see this on euro car parts of car parts for less. Where is everyone else getting it from ?





davidcraggs said:


> I can't see it either now but it was there a few days ago...


I think they are out of stock the link is on the first page of the post though. Some members who have ordered it are being told two weeks for delivery so looks like it will be coming back in.


----------



## Deano9

I'm hoping to give my wife's old fiesta a go with this on Friday.
I'll post up some results if I do.


----------



## sevenfourate

Realistically a 65% Turtle Wax / 35% BSD hybrid mix. Picture taken tonight after just a little of the wet-stuff today :wall:

**(Only done in this ratio because the BSD bottle i had was 1/3 full; and i then lobbed in the 500ml of Turtle wax to refill the BSD to the top and save space in the cupboard  ) Nothing scientific...and at the price of the two - who cares !

Does mixing bring out the best properties of the two ? Why wouldn't / shouldn't / couldn't it bring out the worst of the two ???

All i know is on the daily i normally use BSD. And suffer no issues with it at all. And perhaps this concoction was infact a shade less grabby to apply with my seat of the pants grab-ometer on its most sensitive setting. Then again - perhaps it wasn't.....

Does it bead _slightly _ less ? Praps......on first impressions. Will any combination / dilution / ratio of the two products give great results. More than likely in my opinion.

**The area i do feel the two differed was in terms of using as a drying aid. In this respect i thought the Turtle Wax [As a stand-alone un-mixed product] was a fair bit better / more successful compared to BSD. Either way - Two great products for 'pennies'.

Go out and Enjoy !


----------



## Sheep

Ok I got mine!

For those having issues with "streaking", there is a disclaimer on the back of the bottle stating what you should do if the product streaks. The fact that they put this on the bottle means they know this is a possible issue, and could also confirm a real presence of SiO2 (as lots of SiO2 products streak).

Here is the Label for North America (Canada to be specific).

Untitled by brianjosephson1, on Flickr

Untitled by brianjosephson1, on Flickr


----------



## SwordfishCoupe

Mine actually turned up today, last night got an email from DHL and contained all three bottles (two as gifts). So, not sure why I got the 4-5 day delay email.


----------



## v_r_s

Mine came today only ordered Sunday night..although I. Waiting over a week now for the cheap microfibre cloth offer


----------



## GP Punto

There are some very good reviews of Turtle Wax products, especially the hybrid sealant. The product looks to perform very well for a modest price.


----------



## Sheep

I'm starting my test thread right now, btw.


----------



## yellowRS200

Can I use this as a base and use chemical guys butter wet wax as a topper?


----------



## Sheep

yellowRS200 said:


> Can I use this as a base and use chemical guys butter wet wax as a topper?


I'm not sure that would be required. It's a Carnuba/SiO2 blend, so it's supposed to be glossy as well as durable (my car is silver so it's not exactly a looker). Butter Wax is just looks, and has no water effects or durability worth speaking of.


----------



## yellowRS200

Sheep said:


> I'm not sure that would be required. It's a Carnuba/SiO2 blend, so it's supposed to be glossy as well as durable (my car is silver so it's not exactly a looker). Butter Wax is just looks, and has no water effects or durability worth speaking of.


My car is coming out from a full respray next week, I have no garage or shelter, so was was thinking take it for weekly a £3 hand car wash and dry and tell them to use this turtle for drying and protection.

So that would be enough? Non need for wet butter for that slick wet look I see on YouTube?


----------



## Sheep

yellowRS200 said:


> My car is coming out from a full respray next week, I have no garage or shelter, so was was thinking take it for weekly a £3 hand car wash and dry and tell them to use this turtle for drying and protection.
> 
> So that would be enough? Non need for wet butter for that slick wet look I see on YouTube?


No, don't put any sealant/wax/coating/spray wax/spray sealant/ANY LSP on your car for at least a month.

The fresh paint will need to cure and breath for around a month before you can seal it with any product. Once a month passes THEN you can apply a LSP. Honestly, I would just completely leave the car alone for a month. No washing, waxing, polishing, nothing. Don't touch it.


----------



## alfajim

Got mine yesterday


----------



## GleemSpray

Sheep said:


> No, don't put any sealant/wax/coating/spray wax/spray sealant/ANY LSP on your car for at least a month.
> 
> The fresh paint will need to cure and breath for around a month before you can seal it with any product. Once a month passes THEN you can apply a LSP. Honestly, I would just completely leave the car alone for a month. No washing, waxing, polishing, nothing. Don't touch it.


If the paint has been properley baked, then you can clean / wax it straight away.


----------



## GSD

Most people wouldn’t know if it’s been properly baked if you ask the spray guy he’s always going to say yes of course it has,I would leave it a while just to be sure.


----------



## washingitagain

Sheep said:


> The fresh paint will need to cure and breath for around a month before you can seal it with any product. Once a month passes THEN you can apply a LSP. Honestly, I would just completely leave the car alone for a month. No washing, waxing, polishing, nothing. Don't touch it.


When I had my bonnet resprayed I specifically asked if I could wax / seal it straight away and they said I could.


----------



## roscopervis

yellowRS200 said:


> My car is coming out from a full respray next week, I have no garage or shelter, *so was was thinking take it for weekly a £3 hand car wash and dry* and tell them to use this turtle for drying and protection.
> 
> So that would be enough? Non need for wet butter for that slick wet look I see on YouTube?


Are you serious?


----------



## Sheep

GleemSpray said:


> If the paint has been properley baked, then you can clean / wax it straight away.


You can't properly bake paint after the fact. Factory baked paint is baked at a temperature so hot it would melt the plastics.


----------



## Sheep

washingitagain said:


> When I had my bonnet resprayed I specifically asked if I could wax / seal it straight away and they said I could.


I work in the auto industry, and I deal with body shops on a daily basis. They have all specifically said do NOT wax for the first month. Residual out gassing still occurs and the wax/sealant with prevent this, which will cause the paint to fail.

http://bestride.com/research/tips-a...uld-you-wait-to-wash-your-freshly-painted-car


----------



## Derek Mc

My bottle arrived today but for BSD users can I ask what is the longevity like of it? as that seems to be one of the party pieces of the Turtle Wax


----------



## Sheep

Derek Mc said:


> My bottle arrived today but for BSD users can I ask what is the longevity like of it? as that seems to be one of the party pieces of the Turtle Wax


I've seen around 2 months during summer with weekly-ish washing. I'm retesting both of those together right now, just started.


----------



## Citromark

I thought I'd give the Jet black a try while it's on offer for just over £7 at Halfords , I'm very impressed with the Ice and shine so it will be interesting to see how this compares .



Mark


----------



## streaky

roscopervis said:


> Are you serious?


I think troll comes to mind.


----------



## Sheep

Citromark said:


> I thought I'd give the Jet black a try while it's on offer for just over £7 at Halfords , I'm very impressed with the Ice and shine so it will be interesting to see how this compares .
> 
> Mark


Hey Mark,

Can you resize that photo?

Also, your bottle doesn't specify that there is SiO2 in the product, like the North American version. See mine below.

Untitled by brianjosephson1, on Flickr


----------



## stonejedi

Sheep said:


> Hey Mark,
> 
> Can you resize that photo?
> 
> Also, your bottle doesn't specify that there is SiO2 in the product, like the North American version. See mine below.
> 
> Untitled by brianjosephson1, on Flickr


Its the same product but with a different design on the bottle....




.SJ.


----------



## Sheep

stonejedi said:


> Its the same product but with a different design on the bottle....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .SJ.


John never specifically mentions SiO2 content in the bottle, seems odd they would put it on the NA bottle but not the UK one.


----------



## Citromark

Not sure if I can do it Sheep , I think it's Photobucket playing up .

Mark


----------



## Del-GTi

Anyone struggling to get a hold of TW Sealant could try the Jet Black instead. £4.92 with the Mid20 code.

https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4...691919995085727331434760934733428328156880664


----------



## Sheep

Citromark said:


> Not sure if I can do it Sheep , I think it's Photobucket playing up .
> 
> Mark


You'll have to re-upload it to photobucket at a set resolution. I use Flickr instead, as it protects my rights as the owner of the photo and gives me more flexible sharing settings.


----------



## cheekymonkey

Del-GTi said:


> Anyone struggling to get a hold of TW Sealant could try the Jet Black instead. £4.92 with the Mid20 code.
> 
> https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4...691919995085727331434760934733428328156880664


jet black is abrasive.


----------



## yellowRS200

Sheep said:


> No, don't put any sealant/wax/coating/spray wax/spray sealant/ANY LSP on your car for at least a month.
> 
> The fresh paint will need to cure and breath for around a month before you can seal it with any product. Once a month passes THEN you can apply a LSP. Honestly, I would just completely leave the car alone for a month. No washing, waxing, polishing, nothing. Don't touch it.


I've seen then working on it, as they spray it, they use a heat gun, so definitely not baked

I see aimed comments that I'm trolling, I'm just asking honest questions

I've been driving for 12 years, mainly a to b high mileage cars.
I only ever get car wash a couple times a year

But this respray is costing me what I would pay for an entire car

I wanna look after the paint work but don't want to go beyond my means.

I have a 8 year old nilfisk pressure washer but I'm reluctant to diy because last time I managed to take paint off the rear bumper a few years back, and also all the bits and Bob's for a nice diy set up will cost way more than a monthly Romanian hand wash over a couple year period

On top of that I'm lazy af so not sure if I would ever diy wash much and don't wanna buy stiff not being used

BTW how do I thank a post? Not very clear on this forum


----------



## Citromark

Sheep said:


> You'll have to re-upload it to photobucket at a set resolution. I use Flickr instead, as it protects my rights as the owner of the photo and gives me more flexible sharing settings.


Thanks Sheep , I'll look at Flickr :thumb:.

Mark


----------



## WristyManchego

yellowRS200 said:


> I've seen then working on it, as they spray it, they use a heat gun, so definitely not baked


Lowbake bro, still baked, still fresh paint, still need to wait.


----------



## astormatt

Sheep said:


> John never specifically mentions SiO2 content in the bottle, seems odd they would put it on the NA bottle but not the UK one.


My thoughts too, i have emailed TW about both products so will wait to see what they come back with.


----------



## Sheep

yellowRS200 said:


> I've seen then working on it, as they spray it, they use a heat gun, so definitely not baked
> 
> I see aimed comments that I'm trolling, I'm just asking honest questions
> 
> I've been driving for 12 years, mainly a to b high mileage cars.
> I only ever get car wash a couple times a year
> 
> But this respray is costing me what I would pay for an entire car
> 
> I wanna look after the paint work but don't want to go beyond my means.
> 
> I have a 8 year old nilfisk pressure washer but I'm reluctant to diy because last time I managed to take paint off the rear bumper a few years back, and also all the bits and Bob's for a nice diy set up will cost way more than a monthly Romanian hand wash over a couple year period
> 
> On top of that I'm lazy af so not sure if I would ever diy wash much and don't wanna buy stiff not being used
> 
> BTW how do I thank a post? Not very clear on this forum


Let me put it this way, as I find this really is the best way to let the options sink in.

If i'm Wrong, your car goes a month without wax.

If you're wrong, your paint job fails.

Which side has the best risk/reward ratio?


----------



## Derek Mc

Sheep said:


> Hey Mark,
> 
> Can you resize that photo?
> 
> Also, your bottle doesn't specify that there is SiO2 in the product, like the North American version. See mine below.
> 
> Untitled by brianjosephson1, on Flickr


I was thinking this and amgoing to try and find a chemical data sheet somewhere on line if I can as it does seem very very odd that there is not a mention of SiO2 at all,,,,


----------



## roscopervis

Derek Mc said:


> I was thinking this and amgoing to try and find a chemical data sheet somewhere on line if I can as it does seem very very odd that there is not a mention of SiO2 at all,,,,


I personally don't think it is the same product. From what I've sen from the North American videos, the water behaviour from Seal N Shine is much more beady than the European version. It might have the same chemical resistance, but perhaps the Si02 is what is contributing to the beadyness.


----------



## N Nun

roscopervis said:


> I personally don't think it is the same product. From what I've sen from the North American videos, the water behaviour from Seal N Shine is much more beady than the European version. It might have the same chemical resistance, but perhaps the Si02 is what is contributing to the beadyness.


I think you could be right, my car is not close to how it performs in the videos from america


----------



## Deano9

N Nun said:


> I think you could be right, my car is not close to how it performs in the videos from america


Looks like I'll be sticking it on the wife's old fiesta then!


----------



## Brian1612

N Nun said:


> I think you could be right, my car is not close to how it performs in the videos from america


Sheeps photo's of the beading look excellent, almost on par with BSD.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## stonejedi

Sheep said:


> John never specifically mentions SiO2 content in the bottle, seems odd they would put it on the NA bottle but not the UK one.


Pinned by Forensic Detailing Channel
Forensic Detailing Channel
6 days ago (edited)
NOTE: In USA this product is called ICE SEAL and SHINE.Theres another USA product called ICE spray wax thats different.Unfortunetly we wont be getting ICE spray wax in Europe.Check carparts4less as well as euros for deals.

Taken from Johns youtube vid....SJ.


----------



## stonejedi

So I Guess it's the same product.SJ.


----------



## Sheep

Brian1612 said:


> Sheeps photo's of the beading look excellent, almost on par with BSD.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


I did use a mist setting on the hose to get each product to produce it's best beads, so to speak. However, even with the regular shower setting it is producing pretty tight beads, but still not at the level of BSD.


----------



## Sheep

stonejedi said:


> So I Guess it's the same product.SJ.


It would appear that way, but I'm still baffled that they wouldn't put the SiO2 label on it like the NA version. You'd think the marketing department would want to get as much attention as possible.


----------



## yellowRS200

Sheep said:


> Let me put it this way, as I find this really is the best way to let the options sink in.
> 
> If i'm Wrong, your car goes a month without wax.
> 
> If you're wrong, your paint job fails.
> 
> Which side has the best risk/reward ratio?


Cool. I will wait it out.

I've ordered 4 bottles of this turtle wax so I will definately be using it for at least 2 years IF it lasts as long as it supposed to.

Is there any topper products that would go with this and add gloss?


----------



## N Nun

Brian1612 said:


> Sheeps photo's of the beading look excellent, almost on par with BSD.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


sheep is using the american version tho, so still might not be the same in the UK


----------



## M1UDE

Would appear I am due CP4L an apology as my bottle arrived this afternoon. So fair play to them in the end


----------



## Sheep

M1UDE said:


> Would appear I am due CP4L an apology as my bottle arrived this afternoon. So fair play to them in the end


Most businesses want to sell you products, and can't forecast for a Youtube video and subsequent forum thread causing a product to spike in interest and demand. In time I think Turtle wax will have all the orders filled, hopefully they don't get wise and jack the price up (thought to be fair, it is punching WAY above it's price point).


----------



## Sheep

yellowRS200 said:


> Cool. I will wait it out.
> 
> I've ordered 4 bottles of this turtle wax so I will definately be using it for at least 2 years IF it lasts as long as it supposed to.
> 
> Is there any topper products that would go with this and add gloss?


This is the topper product to be honest, it has Carnuba in it so it does produce a nice gloss (not really obvious on my car though, as it's bright silver). Would make a great coating topper, or depending on my durability test, it could very wall be a great stand-alone product. They do suggest on the label that the paint be "bare" when applying (clayed and polished) to get the best durability and water behavior, so that in tern could suggest it's designed to be a stand-alone product.


----------



## stonejedi

Sheep said:


> It would appear that way, but I'm still baffled that they wouldn't put the SiO2 label on it like the NA version. You'd think the marketing department would want to get as much attention as possible.


I agree with you mate,but those marketing think tank fellows maybe thought that the written label title etc...would appeal better to a European market...Go figure.SJ.


----------



## Sheep

stonejedi said:


> I agree with you mate,but those marketing think tank fellows maybe thought that the written label title etc...would appeal better to a European market...Go figure.SJ.


Hopefully someone can get a MSDS sheet and confirm the content. I bet Forensic will get more information out there when he releases his next video testing it side by side with a few other products (he said he was working on one).


----------



## astormatt

I can’t find the MSDS info via the uk website... Turtlewax Europe are selling 2 bottles for £15 delivered (on Amazon) and in the description it has Ice seal + shine in brackets...


----------



## Sheep

astormatt said:


> I can't find the MSDS info via the uk website... Turtlewax Europe are selling 2 bottles for £15 delivered and in the description it has Ice seal + shine in brackets...


Interesting... Has anyone tried emailing Turtle Wax Themselves?


----------



## astormatt

Sheep said:


> Interesting... Has anyone tried emailing Turtle Wax Themselves?


Yes, waiting for a reply...


----------



## Del-GTi

Sheep said:


> I did use a mist setting on the hose to get each product to produce it's best beads, so to speak. However, even with the regular shower setting it is producing pretty tight beads, but still not at the level of BSD.


Agreed, BSD beads better. Did half the bonnet of my wife's car with the TW today and the other half with BSD. Will try and post a pic later of it.

I'm probably gonna be in the minority here but I'll be honest, I wasn't that impressed with it. Yes it's slick, but it's bordering on greasy and following the instructions I struggled to get it to buff up. I used it with the car wet so thought that maybe didn't suit it so well. Tried it again later with the car dry, same issue.

It also didn't appear that happy in direct sunlight, contrary to what TW put on the back of the bottle. BSD was much easier to use.

I'll try it again though or maybe even use it just for the wheels. I like the smell and the spray head is excellent - much better than the one on the BSD which causes the liquid to ricochet back off the car.


----------



## Sheep

Del-GTi said:


> Agreed, BSD beads better. Did half the bonnet of my wife's car with the TW today and the other half with BSD. Will try and post a pic later of it.
> 
> I'm probably gonna be in the minority here but I'll be honest, I wasn't that impressed with it. Yes it's slick, but it's bordering on greasy and following the instructions I struggled to get it to buff up. I used it with the car wet so thought that maybe didn't suit it so well. Tried it again later with the car dry, same issue.
> 
> It also didn't appear that happy in direct sunlight, contrary to what TW put on the back of the bottle. BSD was much easier to use.
> 
> I'll try it again though or maybe even use it just for the wheels. I like the smell and the spray head is excellent - much better than the one on the BSD which causes the liquid to ricochet back off the car.


I applied mine in direct sunlight and it went on really well. In all honesty, especially when you consider the price, this is a product that could potentially replace a lot of other products, including basic sealants and waxes, as well as QDs, Spray on protectants, and wheel sealants (non coating type). It's so easy to use (for me at least) and so durable that it may very well be a 6 month + product that takes 10 minutes to apply and doesn't ruin a microfiber with SiO2.


----------



## garethp

*msds*

http://www.partinfo.co.uk/files/COSHH-MSDS%20Information/TURTLE%20WAX/53139%20SEALANT%20HYDROPHOBIC%20WAX%20(EN).pdf

not much useful info though


----------



## Scotty B

For me Megs HCW beads better than Bsd. I was amazed at the beading after the 2nd MF application.

My TW sealant arrived today so I might 50/50 the bonnet.


----------



## Brian1612

Used mines today. Absolute breeze to apply and buff off. Possibly using too much if you are having problem buffing it? 

I apply using a MF applicator blocl, 2 sprays is enough to do a half bonnet sized panel and removal is a breeze as it's applied so thinly on the applicator.

Very slick to the touch, I won't see the beading as I'm off to Turkey for 2 weeks but I am going to get it on a test panel and properly test it. From this single use, for the money I cannot fault it though and I'd be happy had I paid £10-15 for it.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## alfajim

sprayed it on my mates wet vectra, buffed off. looked nice and shiny and smooth to the touch, he was happy.


----------



## v_r_s

What's the best way to apply this ?

Wash car. Rinse. Then apply while car is stillwet. 

Or dry car then apply and buff


----------



## alfajim

Bottle says either way. Also says can be used in direct sunlight on all surfaces.


----------



## GleemSpray

This is the SDS for the ICE Seal N Shine, if it means anything to anyone who understands such complex chemistry.

https://hw.menardc.com/main/items/media/TURTL001/SDS/SDSTurtleWax_ICESealNShine.pdf


----------



## Alsone

So much for the remarkable new product.

Unless I'm mistaken it's plain old silicone.


----------



## Mac-

Yes pretty much silicone oil


----------



## tosh

Siloxanes are present in practically every product unless they’re bodyshop safe. Given it’s detergent resistance I wouldn’t say “it’s just another silicone”.


----------



## Derek Mc

SO what we need is to analyse it against others it competes with as it did outlast the Meg's and the Mothers varieties pretty much at the first test, so it may be silicone oil but whatever has been done to it,,,,


----------



## GleemSpray

I would love to see a head to head detergent / removal test against BSD and Carplan SuperGloss really, as I think it's fantastic to see the emergence of these synthetic / hybrid budget products which can be quickly sprayed and wiped to give instant gloss + some degree of lasting protection.

It's not the old argument of paste wax vs BSD etc ; it's a separate area of cheap and available products to use when detailing time simply isn't available and you are stuck with a quickish weekly wash on a daily driver. 

Sent from my P027 using Tapatalk


----------



## Deano9

GleemSpray said:


> I would love to see a head to head detergent / removal test against BSD and Carplan SuperGloss really, as I think it's fantastic to see the emergence of these synthetic / hybrid budget products which can be quickly sprayed and wiped to give instant gloss + some degree of lasting protection.
> 
> It's not the old argument of paste wax vs BSD etc ; it's a separate area of cheap and available products to use when detailing time simply isn't available and you are stuck with a quickish weekly wash on a daily driver.
> 
> Sent from my P027 using Tapatalk


I'm sure forensic detail covered this on his channel?


----------



## tosh

Yes, he did BSD, HCW and TW SNS


----------



## Del-GTi

Said I'd try and post a pic. TW (UK version) on left side of bonnet, BSD on the right side.










Still impressive beading, however BSD still beads better. :thumb:


----------



## washingitagain

Used TW at the weekend for first time. Super easy to apply and buff off and quite a pleasant smell too. The car had been polished recently so was looking good anyway so visually (on a white car) would have been hard to improve. It rained while I was driving later and beaded nicely. So all in all, very pleased.

One thing I found was there was no need to do only one panel at a time as the instructions advised. This sped things up.

I also noted that it said it can be applied to hot paintwork / in the sun which is great. It was cloudy when I used it so can't say if that makes it harder to apply.


----------



## Andy from Sandy

> One thing I found was there was no need to do only one panel at a time as the instructions advised. This sped things up.


How does spray, spray, spray, spray, spray followed by wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe work out faster then spray, wipe, spray, wipe, spray, wipe, spray, wipe, spray, wipe?


----------



## washingitagain

Andy from Sandy said:


> How does spray, spray, spray, spray, spray followed by wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe work out faster then spray, wipe, spray, wipe, spray, wipe, spray, wipe, spray, wipe?


Because you don't have to keep switching microfibre cloths. It's not so much the time as it's just easier - apply in one go - buff in one go.


----------



## GSD

I’ve recently put a ceramic coating on mine the instructions said one panel at a time then buff I found it loads easier doing 3 at a time.


----------



## N Nun

Washed my car over the weekend (1 week since applying the TW). Most of the dirt came off just using a jet wash and a snow foam. I did give it a once over with a mitt to get some dirt off but I could have gotten away without doing a wash. So week 1 down, still beading nicely and still slick and easy to wash.


----------



## Sheep

I detailed a buddies Lexus GX460 this weekend and used it as a Wheel Sealant. Not as durable as C5 would be, but I can do it without having to charge extra for something like that, and I can get it done in 10 minutes after the wheels are clean and dry. I also used in on the door/trunk shuts which should last ages in there.


----------



## roscopervis

GleemSpray said:


> I would love to see a head to head detergent / removal test against BSD and Carplan SuperGloss really, as I think it's fantastic to see the emergence of these synthetic / hybrid budget products which can be quickly sprayed and wiped to give instant gloss + some degree of lasting protection.
> 
> It's not the old argument of paste wax vs BSD etc ; it's a separate area of cheap and available products to use when detailing time simply isn't available and you are stuck with a quickish weekly wash on a daily driver.
> 
> Sent from my P027 using Tapatalk


I think I know how this would go. I'm not sure there is much in the short term this side of ceramic that would outlast TW's Sealant in a chemical resistance test. We know it outlasts BSD in chemical resistance.

There is another type of durability to consider however, mechanical durability. Now, Carplan's Supergloss isn't as chemically resistant as BSD let alone the TW. However, I know from numerous tests that Supergloss is around twice as mechanically durable compared to BSD lasting around 5 months with a single layer in 'regular conditions', compared to around 2 months for BSD.

I saw Waxmode's 5 month test of TW S n' S vs Megs Hydro Ceramic Wax and it was looking like at 5 months it was struggling in Florida conditions. It could well be that whilst it has immense chemical resistance, it's mechanical durability isn't as strong as it's chemical durability would suggest. Saying that, 4-6 months out of a 5 quid spray on product is still flipping excellent.


----------



## GleemSpray

roscopervis said:


> I think I know how this would go. I'm not sure there is much in the short term this side of ceramic that would outlast TW's Sealant in a chemical resistance test. We know it outlasts BSD in chemical resistance.
> 
> There is another type of durability to consider however, mechanical durability. Now, Carplan's Supergloss isn't as chemically resistant as BSD let alone the TW. However, I know from numerous tests that Supergloss is around twice as mechanically durable compared to BSD lasting around 5 months with a single layer in 'regular conditions', compared to around 2 months for BSD.
> 
> I saw Waxmode's 5 month test of TW S n' S vs Megs Hydro Ceramic Wax and it was looking like at 5 months it was struggling in Florida conditions. It could well be that whilst it has immense chemical resistance, it's mechanical durability isn't as strong as it's chemical durability would suggest. Saying that, 4-6 months out of a 5 quid spray on product is still flipping excellent.


That's an interesting angle to all of this - i have wondered about the relevance of some of these detergent tests - especially when used on a product that has effectively "cured" and set hard.

Its quite different to testing how long it will physically stay together and hold onto the paint for, i suppose.

I'm not particularly banging the drum for BSD here, other than its a product i know well from usage - i do find all these new synthetic or semi-synthetic products fascinating.


----------



## GleemSpray

Has anyone yet managed to establish whether or not :

The US Market "_Turtle Wax 50984 ICE Seal N Shine Hybrid Sealant Spray Wax_"

Is the exact same product as

The UK Market "_Turtle Wax 53139 Hybrid Sealant Hydrophobic Wax_" ??

It certainly has a very similar spray bottle + label and also the advertising seems pretty much the same.

But is it the same formulation ??


----------



## Daniel Watkin

So did everyone who ordered from CP4L receive it yet or are some still waiting? Ordered mine on the 8th and still got nothing.


----------



## Lewis_RX8

Daniel Watkin said:


> So did everyone who ordered from CP4L receive it yet or are some still waiting? Ordered mine on the 8th and still got nothing.


Got mine quite quickly, They may be out of stock since it was such a great price, Good Luck


----------



## Sheep

GleemSpray said:


> Has anyone yet managed to establish whether or not :
> 
> The US Market "_Turtle Wax 50984 ICE Seal N Shine Hybrid Sealant Spray Wax_"
> 
> Is the exact same product as
> 
> The UK Market "_Turtle Wax 53139 Hybrid Sealant Hydrophobic Wax_" ??
> 
> It certainly has a very similar spray bottle + label and also the advertising seems pretty much the same.
> 
> But is it the same formulation ??


The MSDS and SDS sheets don't list much in the way of ingredients, but the lack of a SiO2 label seems odd. I'll try emailing turtle wax North America and see if I can get a definite answer.


----------



## Gixxer6

Lewis_RX8 said:


> They may be out of stock


Blame Sheep for that :lol:


----------



## roscopervis

Daniel Watkin said:


> So did everyone who ordered from CP4L receive it yet or are some still waiting? Ordered mine on the 8th and still got nothing.


I'm still waiting for mine.


----------



## astormatt

I have had email confirmation today that the ones i bought from Turtlewax via Amazon have been dispatched...got the 2 week email from CP4L so still waiting on that...
Not had a reply from Turtlewax regarding me emailing them asking them if the American product is the same as what we can get over here....hopefully will clarify things up.


----------



## Sheep

astormatt said:


> I have had email confirmation today that the ones i bought from Turtlewax via Amazon have been dispatched...got the 2 week email from CP4L so still waiting on that...
> Not had a reply from Turtlewax regarding me emailing them asking them if the American product is the same as what we can get over here....hopefully will clarify things up.


When did you email them? I just sent mine today, and it said I would get a reply shortly (which in usual parlance means a day or so).

Who knows, they could have pulled all Customer Service staff to production for these products.


----------



## astormatt

Sheep said:


> When did you email them? I just sent mine today, and it said I would get a reply shortly (which in usual parlance means a day or so).
> 
> Who knows, they could have pulled all Customer Service staff to production for these products.


I emailed them Friday, but i have emailed Turtlewax UK/Europe, where you have probably emailed TW in the states judging by your location, so may get a quicker response.


----------



## tosh

GleemSpray said:


> Has anyone yet managed to establish whether or not :
> 
> The US Market "_Turtle Wax 50984 ICE Seal N Shine Hybrid Sealant Spray Wax_"
> 
> Is the exact same product as
> 
> The UK Market "_Turtle Wax 53139 Hybrid Sealant Hydrophobic Wax_" ??
> 
> It certainly has a very similar spray bottle + label and also the advertising seems pretty much the same.
> 
> But is it the same formulation ??


Don't know - have sent them an email from their UK website. It certainly seems to act the same, but haven't got a bottle of each, side by side.

Edit: I see someone has already done that...


----------



## astormatt

Obviously with this product getting rave reviews both sides of the pond, has anyone looked at/thought about buying or bought any other TW products on the back of this?
Could this be a one hit wonder from a brand which usually would be instantly dismissed by us “detailers”?


----------



## andy__d

other than "hype" and "its new" what IS the huge fuss over this about
it does pretty much the same as a Host of other similar things out on the market already from budget brands to expensive, is it Just the "oo new shiny" + "hype" or what?


----------



## WristyManchego

andy__d said:


> other than "hype" and "its new" what IS the huge fuss over this about
> it does pretty much the same as a Host of other similar things out on the market already from budget brands to expensive, is it Just the "oo new shiny" + "hype" or what?


Aah, Andy my man.

Have you not seen the endless videos of this product being abused with chemicals? It can last a whole 30 minute assault, repeatedly!

There's absolutely no better way to test a product than an unrealistic scenario repeated many times over.


----------



## andy__d

then ? (with chemical testing !)


----------



## WristyManchego




----------



## astormatt

andy__d said:


> other than "hype" and "its new" what IS the huge fuss over this about
> it does pretty much the same as a Host of other similar things out on the market already from budget brands to expensive, is it Just the "oo new shiny" + "hype" or what?


I don't know Andy...for me it comes down to me liking to try new products and forming my own option of them...i, like everyone else who have bought it know that this isn't a "game changer" and are just intrigued by it....well the price vs performance aspect of it for me anyway.


----------



## WristyManchego

Chemical resistance testing has its place, but it’s certainly not the only or deciding factor when determining a product’s performance.


----------



## GleemSpray

astormatt said:


> Obviously with this product getting rave reviews both sides of the pond, has anyone looked at/thought about buying or bought any other TW products on the back of this?
> Could this be a one hit wonder from a brand which usually would be instantly dismissed by us "detailers"?


I've got a gallon+ of TW ZipWax, which I bought on a whim in a Halfords sale some years back and it is a very good wash n wax type product.

Cleans dirty cars VERY well and leaves a lovely shine (even if it is gone a few days later)... and, you know what?... ZipWax is fab via a lance as a kind of snow foam!.... I have bored on about this in the past here on DW... Lol

I would not turn my back on any product simply because it was labelled Turtle Wax.

Sent from my P027 using Tapatalk


----------



## tosh

Long term test; daily driver


----------



## Sheep

andy__d said:


> other than "hype" and "its new" what IS the huge fuss over this about
> it does pretty much the same as a Host of other similar things out on the market already from budget brands to expensive, is it Just the "oo new shiny" + "hype" or what?


Well, for starters...

It's cheap. We're talking like, 5 of these to one bottle of any other name brand SiO2 spray (reload for example).

It's durable. More durable than any other spray and wipe product (especially in it's price class).

It's slick. Not bead maker slick, but that barely makes beads.

It's glossy. Its as glossy as Polished Angel Comsic V2, which is $100 dollars US.

It has a great bottle and trigger.

It's not hype.


----------



## Peter77

astormatt said:


> Obviously with this product getting rave reviews both sides of the pond, has anyone looked at/thought about buying or bought any other TW products on the back of this?
> Could this be a one hit wonder from a brand which usually would be instantly dismissed by us "detailers"?


I've used the redline wheel cleaner. Again from Carparts4less, is about £6 then some discount. Worked as good as any fallout type wheel cleaner. My only gripe was the thickness of the stuff, was like trying to spray custard. Was very lubricated around the wheel, cleaned well and removed/bled out the fallout. I have some more in a basket ready to go, I'm waiting for this ice shine stuff to come back in stock as I missed the initial load

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Fatboy40

This is an odd question but what does the liquid look and smell like when it's out of the bottle?


----------



## GSD

Keep a look out in Home Bargains they seem to do some TW stuff.


----------



## Fatboy40

GleemSpray said:


> This is the SDS for the ICE Seal N Shine, if it means anything to anyone who understands such complex chemistry.
> 
> https://hw.menardc.com/main/items/media/TURTL001/SDS/SDSTurtleWax_ICESealNShine.pdf


For those interested we have...

Turtle Wax ICE Seal N Shine: Polydimethyl Siloxanes @ 1 - 5%

CarPro Reload: Aminoalkoxydimethylpolysiloxane @ 15 -15%

... which is not a direct comment on the efficacy of Seal N Shine, however it does go someway to indicating why it's cheaper.

I was tempted to buy some on my next pay day, however looking at the data sheets (which I know aren't the whole story) I now don't think I will. I don't doubt that it's a good product, but it looks like it's aimed at a certain market and price point, and I'm prepared to pay more to get what I perceive to be a higher quality product / experience.


----------



## Sheep

Fatboy40 said:


> For those interested we have...
> 
> Turtle Wax ICE Seal N Shine: Polydimethyl Siloxanes @ 1 - 5%
> 
> CarPro Reload: Aminoalkoxydimethylpolysiloxane @ 15 -15%
> 
> ... which is not a direct comment on the efficacy of Seal N Shine, however it does go someway to indicating why it's cheaper.
> 
> I was tempted to buy some on my next pay day, however looking at the data sheets (which I know aren't the whole story) I now don't think I will. I don't doubt that it's a good product, but it looks like it's aimed at a certain market and price point, and I'm prepared to pay more to get what I perceive to be a higher quality product / experience.


It's your money, spend it as you please.

Turtle wax has acknowledged my initial email, but they haven't actually answered it yet.


----------



## Andy from Sandy

Fatboy40 said:


> For those interested we have...
> 
> Turtle Wax ICE Seal N Shine: Polydimethyl Siloxanes @ 1 - 5%
> 
> CarPro Reload: Aminoalkoxydimethylpolysiloxane @ 15 -15%
> 
> ... which is not a direct comment on the efficacy of Seal N Shine, however it does go someway to indicating why it's cheaper.
> 
> I was tempted to buy some on my next pay day, however looking at the data sheets (which I know aren't the whole story) I now don't think I will. I don't doubt that it's a good product, but it looks like it's aimed at a certain market and price point, and I'm prepared to pay more to get what I perceive to be a higher quality product / experience.


How do you know that using more Polydimethylsiloxane actually makes for a better product and are you sure that modifying the Polydimethylsiloxane still makes for a better product?


----------



## astormatt

Fatboy40 said:


> This is an odd question but what does the liquid look and smell like when it's out of the bottle?


Mine arrived today...smell is chemically and has a hint of zip wax to me....

https://i.postimg.cc/tC3xtG0H/FCFC10-E2-30-AB-4-A18-BA28-13-A084-BD9641.jpg


----------



## Fatboy40

Andy from Sandy said:


> ... are you sure that modifying the Polydimethylsiloxane still makes for a better product?


There does appear to be a point of diminishing returns, however the Turtle Wax product is on the low end of concentrations and probably has to be to hit an acceptable retail price that those who buy their products will accept.

This article is a good read...

https://patents.google.com/patent/US8252101B1/en


----------



## Fatboy40

astormatt said:


> Mine arrived today...smell is chemically and has a hint of zip wax to me....
> 
> https://i.postimg.cc/tC3xtG0H/FCFC10-E2-30-AB-4-A18-BA28-13-A084-BD9641.jpg


Thanks 

It's interesting to see that unlike Sonax and CarPro etc. they've not added anything to colour the liquid, which would have been pretty pointless for something in a black bottle.


----------



## Taxboy

Following this thread. It seems there is sense from some of not wanting the product to be that good because of its low cost.

I don't think this is limited to detailing but I guess it demonstrates the power of marketing ?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk


----------



## Del-GTi

Taxboy said:


> Following this thread. It seems there is sense from some of not wanting the product to be that good because of its low cost.
> 
> I don't think this is limited to detailing but I guess it demonstrates the power of marketing ?
> 
> Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk


I thought something similar. It was more like not willing to buy it because of it's low price. Sort of 'it's cheap or it's Turtle Wax, it won't be very good'. But would pay more for a similar, well-known product even though it's getting mostly excellent and comparable feedback on here.

Screams of badge snobbery to me.


----------



## Andy from Sandy

Polydimethylsiloxane is a widely-used and versatile ingredient seen in many skin care and beauty products because of its ability to serve as an anti-foaming agent, skin protectant and conditioner; it is known to prevent water and moisture loss in the skin by forming a hydrating barrier. According to research published in Skin Research and Technology, this barrier also serves as a mild water repellent, and has been shown to fill in fine lines, giving skin a temporary “plump” look. Polydimethylsiloxane is an easily spreadable silicone oil that creates a coating when applied to the skin that feels smooth and silky to the touch, although this effect is superficial.

All I wonder is because a product has more polydimethylsiloxane in it does it actually make it better?


----------



## Sheep

Taxboy said:


> Following this thread. It seems there is sense from some of not wanting the product to be that good because of its low cost.
> 
> I don't think this is limited to detailing but I guess it demonstrates the power of marketing ?
> 
> Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk


I think it's a bit simpler than that. Someone outlays $$$ for a similar product, finds out a cheaper product does the same job for less and then tries to justify their purchase. It's pretty common in a lot of different hobbies and industries.

Here's an example.

A baker has a cookie recipe with simple, cheap ingredients that taste better than cookies made with more expensive ingredients from a different recipe. Someone makes cookies with the more expensive recipe, finds out the cheaper ones are (subjectively) better, and begins to "attack" that cheap recipe cookie because it's made with cheaper ingredients, trying to justify their purchase.

No one has to like the turtlewax product, and is free to choose other products over it, but you can't say it's a bad product because it uses cheaper/less concentrated ingredients. The proven results in countless threads and videos shows that it is better at doing the same job, for less money.


----------



## Fatboy40

Taxboy said:


> Following this thread. It seems there is sense from some of not wanting the product to be that good because of its low cost.
> 
> I don't think this is limited to detailing but I guess it demonstrates the power of marketing ?


I'll go wherever I can get the best product for the money, I shop just as much in Lidl and Wilkinsons as I do in Sainsburys and Homebase.

Companies like Turtle Wax and Tetrosyl etc. are huge compared to niche players like CarPro and TAC Systems etc., and I've no doubt that if they wanted to they could blow them out of the water, however they're making products for a specific market and price point and doing very well off of it.

The average punter browsing the motoring isle of Tesco, if Seal N Shine + Reload were next to each other, would go for Seal N Shine due to the price and brand. At work I'm always biting my tongue when someone buys a Demon Shine product and acts like they've found a miracle, then at the end of the day head out to the works car park after some rain and see some vague beads on their cars roof and the tight ones on mine.

Seal N Shine is obviously great for the money, 99.9% of the population would love it's results, but we're in a tiny minority that knows better is available and have high expectations.

As said before data sheets aren't everything, but if you take them at face value it's difficult to deny that if you diluted Reload 50/50 with demin water its active ingredients are still of a slightly higher volume than Seal N Shine's (which comprises of greater than 80% water). Now I think about it I will buy some next pay day, it won't break the bank, and play around with it against a 50/50 Reload mix as I'd enjoy testing them (and I'll stop bothering my wife for a few hours).


----------



## Sheep

Fatboy40 said:


> Companies like Turtle Wax and Tetrosyl etc. are huge compared to niche players like CarPro and TAC Systems etc.


TAC Systems isn't a small company, they're a leader in coating tech, and often supply or OE for other brands.



Fatboy40 said:


> Seal N Shine is obviously great for the money, 99.9% of the population would love it's results, but we're in a tiny minority that knows better is available and have high expectations.


Except that they so far HAVEN'T proven to be better, which has been demonstrated in numerous tests.



Fatboy40 said:


> As said before data sheets aren't everything, but if you take them at face value it's difficult to deny that if you diluted Reload 50/50 with demin water its active ingredients are still of a slightly higher volume than Seal N Shine's (which comprises of greater than 80% water). Now I think about it I will buy some next pay day, it won't break the bank, and play around with it against a 50/50 Reload mix as I'd enjoy testing them (and I'll stop bothering my wife for a few hours).


Exactly, which is why people are testing stuff. SnS is matching or beating products at 3-6 times the price, all while haven't less "premium" ingredients. It's not leading in every category, but it's posting really good gloss levels, as well as durability (chemical). The beading is quite good, as well as slickness, and ease of application is as good as it gets for a spray on wipe off product.

Again, you don't have to like it or use it, but you can't say it's worse because it's made by Turtle Wax, cheap, or it's ingredient list isn't exotic (which would be "spec sheeting" on your part).


----------



## tosh

An SDS is a Safety Data Sheet - It only contains ingredients that relate to safety.

It's not a recipe to make the product.

Therefore we have to rely on either real world or torture testing to see how it'll perform against salt, road grime, insect removers, tar removers, screenwash and strong car wash. All of these tests are basically simulated accelerated wear tests, because we want our data now, not in 3 months time.

This product goes to show that chemicals cost pennies - everything we pay for is quality control/consistency, shelf life, marketing, distribution, support/returns, retailer markup, shipping, profit, etc.


----------



## The_Bouncer

Fatboy40 said:


> For those interested we have...
> 
> Turtle Wax ICE Seal N Shine: Polydimethyl Siloxanes @ 1 - 5%
> 
> CarPro Reload: Aminoalkoxydimethylpolysiloxane @ 15 -15%
> 
> ... which is not a direct comment on the efficacy of Seal N Shine, however it does go someway to indicating why it's cheaper.
> 
> I was tempted to buy some on my next pay day, however looking at the data sheets (which I know aren't the whole story) I now don't think I will. I don't doubt that it's a good product, but it looks like it's aimed at a certain market and price point, and I'm prepared to pay more to get what I perceive to be a higher quality product / experience.


Different ingredients and the blenders wanted a different, feel, finish, look to the product. - Regular straight chain siloxane is cheaper than modified but the products side by side will impart differences. :

Common dimethyl silicone fluid is physiologically inert and has the characteristics of water repellency, defoaming properties, thermo-oxidative stability, and chemical stability. Modified silicone fluids are unique products that improve on the advantageous characteristics of dimethyl polysiloxane by introducing various organic groups into some of the methyl groups. Modification adds such properties as compatibility or reactivity with organic substances, water solubility, emulsifying properties, water repellency, paintability, anti-static properties, softening properties and lubricity.

So to put it in basic terms, you would get a better gloss look, feel to the paint etc using the modified over a straight chain. - Of course a straight chain is functional and cheap to mass market/produce.

Whilst not a mind blowing unique, new tech blend - It Is what it is, if it works for you and gives the style, looks, feel, finish that you are happy with then all good.


----------



## cheekymonkey

Sheep said:


> Except that they so far HAVEN'T proven to be better, which has been demonstrated in numerous tests.
> 
> Has it been proven? or has it not?. I think that is down to the individual, Better has a different meaning to some than others. until there is a basis on what makes something better there will always be the same for and against.


----------



## Sheep

cheekymonkey said:


> Sheep said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except that they so far HAVEN'T proven to be better, which has been demonstrated in numerous tests.
> 
> Has it been proven? or has it not?. I think that is down to the individual, Better has a different meaning to some than others. until there is a basis on what makes something better there will always be the same for and against.
> 
> 
> 
> Well they've tested chemical resistance (nearly everyone), time durability (waxmode on youtube - 5 months still going), and gloss levels (Apex detail on youtube - matched Polished Angel Cosmic V2).
> 
> We know its slick, and it's cheap. What else is there to really know?
Click to expand...


----------



## cheekymonkey

Sheep said:


> cheekymonkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well they've tested chemical resistance (nearly everyone), time durability (waxmode on youtube - 5 months still going), and gloss levels (Apex detail on youtube - matched Polished Angel Cosmic V2).
> 
> We know its slick, and it's cheap. What else is there to really know?
> 
> 
> 
> and if that is enough for you to decide that makes it better than that is fine. others may want different from what you have stated, or more evidence.
Click to expand...


----------



## Brian1612

Sheep said:


> TAC Systems isn't a small company, they're a leader in coating tech, and often supply or OE for other brands.
> 
> Except that they so far HAVEN'T proven to be better, which has been demonstrated in numerous tests.
> 
> Exactly, which is why people are testing stuff. SnS is matching or beating products at 3-6 times the price, all while haven't less "premium" ingredients. It's not leading in every category, but it's posting really good gloss levels, as well as durability (chemical). The beading is quite good, as well as slickness, and ease of application is as good as it gets for a spray on wipe off product.
> 
> Again, you don't have to like it or use it, but you can't say it's worse because it's made by Turtle Wax, cheap, or it's ingredient list isn't exotic (which would be "spec sheeting" on your part).


Well said. Just because it has less 'active ingredients' compared to something like Reload doesn't mean it's a worse product. To the contrary the results I've seen would suggest it's a far better product than Reload.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## washingitagain

Taxboy said:


> Following this thread. It seems there is sense from some of not wanting the product to be that good because of its low cost.
> 
> I don't think this is limited to detailing but I guess it demonstrates the power of marketing ?
> 
> Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk


Agreed. I often feel in a minority when people on here spend so much on stuff and always talk about it being an expensive interest. I've got stuff like FK1000p, BSD, a couple of shampoos mitts and microfibres and have hardly spent much at all. And TW for a fiver!


----------



## Sheep

cheekymonkey said:


> and if that is enough for you to decide that makes it better than that is fine. others may want different from what you have stated, or more evidence.


I'm finding it hard to see why it wouldn't be objectively better, instead of just subjectively.

If you look at the uses and criteria for a spray on wipe off product, which of the following categories are lacking?

Ease of use
Slickness
Beading
Durability
Gloss
Bottle/trigger
Cost

It seems to nail each one, and it's been confirmed by multiple sources. I think personally the only way it could be bested by some competitors is smell, but it's not that bad overall (definitely no Iron X).

I'm not saying people need to use it, but they can't say it's bad.


----------



## ///M Sport

I rarely see hype and a ‘cheap’ product go hand in hand in the world of detailing. If it works it works, we all know there’s a decent chunk of marketing hype margin added to the cost of the products we buy, so it’s good to see a value product score so well. 

There maybe well be better products out there. But the 5-10% improvement for 200%+ extra in cost just doesn’t stack up for me.


----------



## cheekymonkey

Sheep said:


> I'm finding it hard to see why it wouldn't be objectively better, instead of just subjectively.
> 
> If you look at the uses and criteria for a spray on wipe off product, which of the following categories are lacking?
> 
> Ease of use
> Slickness
> Beading
> Durability
> Gloss
> Bottle/trigger
> Cost
> 
> It seems to nail each one, and it's been confirmed by multiple sources. I think personally the only way it could be bested by some competitors is smell, but it's not that bad overall (definitely no Iron X).
> 
> I'm not saying people need to use it, but they can't say it's bad.


but people can say its bad, because it doesn,t fit there criteria of what is important to them in a product. 
ok from your other post, you state it stood up well to the chemical test. Some see them test as a bit pointless and would sooner see real life tests, and because the water behaviour has changed doesnt mean the product isnt still there.
1 person has had 5 months out of it,which is good but its 1 test, you cant bank on 1 test as being exactly true. 
1 person has said it is as glossy as the angel wax, again its 1 person, and its his opinion not fact. if you had half a dozen saying it then ok, but you can't bank on it because 1 person says it. 
there are more points that others take into consideration when buying a product and yes there are some product snobs out there.
From the criteria for a spray on wipe off product you have put some i agree with some i dont, but the most important one of any lsp you have missed off is protection. dont care if a product costs £2 or £200 it has to have a certain amount of protection. real life protection and not just the myth of protection because it beads or mistaking durability for protection, ie uv protection for one .


----------



## Sheep

cheekymonkey said:


> but people can say its bad, because it doesn,t fit there criteria of what is important to them in a product.


Then list what that criteria is. I for the life of my can't think of any others to go with a $5 spray on wipe off product. It doesn't make breakfast, or walk the dog. There, 2 things it sucks at.



cheekymonkey said:


> ok from your other post, you state it stood up well to the chemical test. Some see them test as a bit pointless and would sooner see real life tests, and because the water behaviour has changed doesnt mean the product isnt still there. 1 person has had 5 months out of it,which is good but its 1 test, you cant bank on 1 test as being exactly true.


And a test performed my someone capable of conducting a fair, unbiased test. Waxmode has tested numerous products, all of which were done in fair, even, and proper fashion. I trust his 1 test over 500 simply because he produces quality work.



cheekymonkey said:


> 1 person has said it is as glossy as the angel wax, again its 1 person, and its his opinion not fact. if you had half a dozen saying it then ok, but you can't bank on it because 1 person says it.


Again, a quality test, performed with the right equipment, with the same criteria. Same gloss meter, same panel, same prep, performed by a reliable resource.



cheekymonkey said:


> there are more points that others take into consideration when buying a product and yes there are some product snobs out there.
> From the criteria for a spray on wipe off product you have put some i agree with some i dont, but the most important one of any lsp you have missed off is protection. dont care if a product costs £2 or £200 it has to have a certain amount of protection. real life protection and not just the myth of protection because it beads or mistaking durability for protection, ie uv protection for one .


Which form of protection? The only one left on the table is mechanical resistance, and no spray on wipe off product advertises that it is scratch/swirl resistant.

I get it that your handle is cheekymonkey, but at this rate it's becoming more pedanticdevilsadvocate. I totally get the premium side of products, I myself drive what is considered a "luxury" car when I could have got a regular car (i mean... there is actual differences there, but transportation at it's roots is equally served by both). I would love some nice, thick, wrapped and beautifully terminated speaker wires for my stereo. They look great and feel nice, and some brands charge more for that luxury, but others charge WAY to much and promise a better sound, but all evidence, testing, blind testing, and measurements have proven it's merely for aesthetics.

If you can come up with some tangible points to support your opinion then good, otherwise you're just arguing for the sake of it, and that's not productive. You're still welcome to your opinion, but at this point it doesn't bead water.


----------



## cheekymonkey

Sheep said:


> Then list what that criteria is. I for the life of my can't think of any others to go with a $5 spray on wipe off product. It doesn't make breakfast, or walk the dog. There, 2 things it sucks at.
> 
> And a test performed my someone capable of conducting a fair, unbiased test. Waxmode has tested numerous products, all of which were done in fair, even, and proper fashion. I trust his 1 test over 500 simply because he produces quality work.
> 
> Again, a quality test, performed with the right equipment, with the same criteria. Same gloss meter, same panel, same prep, performed by a reliable resource.
> 
> Which form of protection? The only one left on the table is mechanical resistance, and no spray on wipe off product advertises that it is scratch/swirl resistant.
> 
> I get it that your handle is cheekymonkey, but at this rate it's becoming more pedanticdevilsadvocate. I totally get the premium side of products, I myself drive what is considered a "luxury" car when I could have got a regular car (i mean... there is actual differences there, but transportation at it's roots is equally served by both). I would love some nice, thick, wrapped and beautifully terminated speaker wires for my stereo. They look great and feel nice, and some brands charge more for that luxury, but others charge WAY to much and promise a better sound, but all evidence, testing, blind testing, and measurements have proven it's merely for aesthetics.
> 
> If you can come up with some tangible points to support your opinion then good, otherwise you're just arguing for the sake of it, and that's not productive. You're still welcome to your opinion, but at this point it doesn't bead water.


 you are missing the hole meaning of what i am saying. Again all the above is your opinion, Others have different criteria when they are choosing a product.what you see as a priority others may not It is that simple.. not arguing just stating people have a different opinion/ criteria when buying a product. I dont see why that is hard for you to understand.

re read below what i first posted, nothing to do with this product, nothing to do with its price and nothing to do with my opinion. just all to do with when peoples choose a product there criteria's can be different.

*Has it been proven? or has it not?. I think that is down to the individual, Better has a different meaning to some than others. until there is a basis on what makes something better there will always be the same for and against.
*


----------



## Sheep

cheekymonkey said:


> you are missing the hole meaning of what i am saying. Again all the above is your opinion, Others have different criteria when they are choosing a product.what you see as a priority others may not It is that simple.. not arguing just stating people have a different opinion/ criteria when buying a product. I dont see why that is hard for you to understand.
> 
> re read below what i first posted, nothing to do with this product, nothing to do with its price and nothing to do with my opinion. just all to do with when peoples choose a product there criteria's can be different.
> 
> *Has it been proven? or has it not?. I think that is down to the individual, Better has a different meaning to some than others. until there is a basis on what makes something better there will always be the same for and against.
> *


Nothing I have said about this product is opinion. I've only stated facts about it's performance, relative to the criteria that these products are judged upon. The only part that could be construed as opinion, is the smell.

The fact that it performs well in all the areas that these products are judged means that it would be extremely hard to say it WOULDN'T meet a single criteria that would make it more or less appealing to a consumer. That is the single main point I'm trying to get across, it doesn't matter which is more important to you, this does them all.

The only reason people would not want to buy it is if only 1 single criteria is what they want and not the others. I am Genuinely having a hard time believing someone would want a spray detailer that didn't offer a least a couple of the traits this excels at.


----------



## cheekymonkey

Sheep said:


> Nothing I have said about this product is opinion. I've only stated facts about it's performance, relative to the criteria that these products are judged upon. The only part that could be construed as opinion, is the smell.
> 
> The fact that it performs well in all the areas that these products are judged means that it would be extremely hard to say it WOULDN'T meet a single criteria that would make it more or less appealing to a consumer. That is the single main point I'm trying to get across, it doesn't matter which is more important to you, this does them all.
> 
> The only reason people would not want to buy it is if only 1 single criteria is what they want and not the others. I am Genuinely having a hard time believing someone would want a spray detailer that didn't offer a least a couple of the traits this excels at.


see you still going on about the product. Again my point is what you want from a product is not what everyone else wants. yes some parts are obvious what people are going to want depending on what the product is. Again yes this will do some of what others want from this type of product, but to some there is more important criteria to a product than what you have stated and if it doesnt meet them some people will not want it.Infact the 2 most important criterias for me haven't been undermined on the product yet
Sorry but everything you have stated is your opinion and not fact. It's your opinion as you interpret them tests to your thought, your opinion. Take the gloss test against angel polish, your opinion is that test is correct. I hadn't seen it so i have been and watched it. my opinion is the gloss test is flawed. A gloss meter uses light to come to determine the gloss value. In that test he used a large spotlight which was closer to the turtle wax side so is able to use more of that light for the turtle wax reading. In that test it scored 98. In 2 other tests of his i watched it scored way less than that,90.2 was one reading the other was 92 which confirms it was more to do with the test set up being wrong.infact in 1 of those test it only won the value for money category.
As i have said people have different criteria's if this fits yours than great, It wont fit everybody's, but shouldnt be dismissed because of the price.


----------



## Fatboy40

The_Bouncer said:


> Different ingredients and the blenders wanted a different, feel, finish, look to the product. - Regular straight chain siloxane is cheaper than modified but the products side by side will impart differences. :
> 
> Common dimethyl silicone fluid is physiologically inert and has the characteristics of water repellency, defoaming properties, thermo-oxidative stability, and chemical stability. Modified silicone fluids are unique products that improve on the advantageous characteristics of dimethyl polysiloxane by introducing various organic groups into some of the methyl groups. Modification adds such properties as compatibility or reactivity with organic substances, water solubility, emulsifying properties, water repellency, paintability, anti-static properties, softening properties and lubricity.
> 
> So to put it in basic terms, you would get a better gloss look, feel to the paint etc using the modified over a straight chain. - Of course a straight chain is functional and cheap to mass market/produce.
> 
> Whilst not a mind blowing unique, new tech blend - It Is what it is, if it works for you and gives the style, looks, feel, finish that you are happy with then all good.


Thanks for that, very interesting, and it helps to highlight why the SNS is cheaper than some other products, but still a valid product to use.

So a product with an "Amine / Amino functional silicone fluid" will perform better, with increased durability / gloss / lubricity / longevity, but don't expect it to be a quantum leap above other products?


----------



## Andy from Sandy

Sheep save the bandwidth for something constructive.

I would stick to the plot and only discuss your use of SnS.


----------



## Sheep

Andy from Sandy said:


> Sheep save the bandwidth for something constructive.
> 
> I would stick to the plot and only discuss your use of SnS.


We are discussing SnS, and I started the thread.


----------



## Sheep

cheekymonkey said:


> snip


Yep, that mystery criteria. Would hate to be a manufacture trying to improve a product with feedback like that.


----------



## cheekymonkey

Sheep said:


> Yep, that mystery criteria. Would hate to be a manufacture trying to improve a product with feedback like that.


really, there are plenty of other criteria to consider when choosing a product. Plenty of manufactures meet those mystery criteria's that you seem to not understand or accept. I'll state it again your criteria is not the same as everybody else, doesnt mean yours is right or others are wrong, what is wrong is you dont seem to believe there are any other criteria's than yours, and if so its all bs and a mystery. Again if this fits your criteria then great, but does that make it better than other product, that is up to the individual and what there needs are from such a product. It is that simple.


----------



## GleemSpray

Its all getting a bit out of hand here, i think.

Seal N Shine is an impressive product for a fiver, same as BSD is, that will work for many peoples requirements. 

Its not "Game Over" for everybody else - Its just an impressive product for a fiver and its another example of the fantastic synthetic products which are coming to market now.

I love BSD, but i have paste wax's i intend to use, when i have the time to do so.

Will probably buy some AG Polar Seal at some point too.

Cant you just agree to disagree and get on with the testing ??


----------



## Sheep

GleemSpray said:


> Its all getting a bit out of hand here, i think.
> 
> Seal N Shine is an impressive product for a fiver, same as BSD is, that will work for many peoples requirements.
> 
> Cant you just agree to disagree and get on with the testing ??


Absolutely, not everyone will like every product, that's why there is so many. Just the other week I put a layer of Mother FX Synwax on my car, one that didn't exactly test that well, literally just wanted to mess with it once more. Heck, I want to get a bottle of Wet Coat simply because I like the bottle design (I think Gyeon has excellent branding).

My main point is that if people are making recommendations, both for or against products, they should be able to stand behind the statements, and offer some kind of reasoning. I also feel this is extremely important when it's someone else who is paying for the product (you're spending their money, in a way)

No hard feelings Cheeky, you cheeky guy you. :wave:


----------



## cheekymonkey

Sheep said:


> Absolutely, not everyone will like every product, that's why there is so many. Just the other week I put a layer of Mother FX Synwax on my car, one that didn't exactly test that well, literally just wanted to mess with it once more. Heck, I want to get a bottle of Wet Coat simply because I like the bottle design (I think Gyeon has excellent branding).
> 
> My main point is that if people are making recommendations, both for or against products, they should be able to stand behind the statements, and offer some kind of reasoning. I also feel this is extremely important when it's someone else who is paying for the product (you're spending their money, in a way)
> 
> No hard feelings Cheeky, you cheeky guy you. :wave:


No hard feelings here sheep. :thumb:


----------



## Sheep

Turtle wax just replied to me regarding the differences between the North American version the Europe/UK version...

There isn’t any. Same product, different labelling. At least that’s out of the way.


----------



## stonejedi

Sheep said:


> Turtle wax just replied to me regarding the differences between the North American version the Europe/UK version...
> 
> There isn't any. Same product, different labelling. At least that's out of the way.


Told you so!.....
:thumb:.SJ.


----------



## Compo

Think the words got out lol 

Carn't find it local let alone at a fiver.


----------



## tosh

Sheep said:


> Turtle wax just replied to me regarding the differences between the North American version the Europe/UK version...
> 
> There isn't any. Same product, different labelling. At least that's out of the way.


Nice one - haven't had a reply to my email yet. But at least someone has.


----------



## KojakLives

Got my 4 bottles from CP4L for a £5 each. A couple of outstanding questions:

Was anyone able to confirm whether the Jet Black Spray Polish was the same as SnS with the addition of black pigments?

Was anyone able to confirm whether SnS contains ceramic component or not? I'm not ideologically for/against it, just want to know whether or not I should ditch the microfibre cloth after usage.


----------



## astormatt

KojakLives said:


> Got my 4 bottles from CP4L for a £5 each. A couple of outstanding questions:
> 
> Was anyone able to confirm whether the Jet Black Spray Polish was the same as SnS with the addition of black pigments?
> 
> Was anyone able to confirm whether SnS contains ceramic component or not? I'm not ideologically for/against it, just want to know whether or not I should ditch the microfibre cloth after usage.


Simple answer is no, jet black is a completely different product and no it doesn't have any ceramic components in it.


----------



## tosh

astormatt said:


> Simple answer is no, jet black is a completely different product and no it doesn't have any ceramic components in it.


Yes, the description for Jet Black says that it has some abrasive qualities for light marring removal.


----------



## Citromark

I've tried the Jet black but didn't rate it compared to SnS , grabby and not at all easy to remove . I've applied SnS to two black vehicles and the gloss levels are very impressive . 

Mark


----------



## KojakLives

astormatt said:


> Simple answer is no, jet black is a completely different product and no it doesn't have any ceramic components in it.


Thanks for that. Isn't polydimethylsiloxane (an ingredient in SnS) a ceramic composite? I'll admit I've got a rudimentary understanding on what the detailing world consider a ceramic, and whether some or all ceramic products affect micro-fibres.


----------



## Sheep

KojakLives said:


> Thanks for that. Isn't polydimethylsiloxane (an ingredient in SnS) a ceramic composite? I'll admit I've got a rudimentary understanding on what the detailing world consider a ceramic, and whether some or all ceramic products affect micro-fibres.


SnS does have some sort of SiO2 content, it's on the label. The SDS/MSDS only lists medically relevant stuff, so we don't know what else is in it.


----------



## Andy from Sandy

> Isn't polydimethylsiloxane (an ingredient in SnS) a ceramic composite?


If you do a search for polydimethylsiloxane you will find it is a silicone of some description used extensively in cosmetics and some toys.

I have no idea on chemistry but if you look at the structure it may or may not be SiO2 but similar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polydimethylsiloxane


----------



## WristyManchego

Andy from Sandy said:


> If you do a search for polydimethylsiloxane you will find it is a silicone of some description used extensively in cosmetics and some toys.


It's silicone. Used in almost everything.

How do you think they get "I can't believe it's not butter" to work?


----------



## RCCampus

Not sure if this has been discovered already, but I asked carparts4less whether they're going to restock Turtle Wax "Sealant Hydrophobic Wax" and they said "unfortunately not" and redirected me to AF Aqua Coat


----------



## Daniel Watkin

Well it was nice when it lasted. Don't know where that leaves everyone who has ordered but not received anything yet though. I emailed them seeing whether they had an ETA and not had a response. I'm keen to try it so ordered some off Amazon. Wondering whether or not to cancel my CP4L order now or hold out hope it will eventually arrive.


----------



## KojakLives

Andy from Sandy said:


> If you do a search for polydimethylsiloxane you will find it is a silicone of some description used extensively in cosmetics and some toys.
> 
> I have no idea on chemistry but if you look at the structure it may or may not be SiO2 but similar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polydimethylsiloxane


I'm quite ignorance on this topic, I thought that "ceramic" was an often abused term to cover a multitude of silicon compounds. My only interest is whether or not SnS will permanently gunk up microfibre cloths to the point where using said cloth (even after careful washing) will start to scratch paintwork as demonstrated by Forensic Detailing Channel


----------



## KojakLives

Sheep said:


> SnS does have some sort of SiO2 content, it's on the label. The SDS/MSDS only lists medically relevant stuff, so we don't know what else is in it.


Thanks. There's no mention of SiO2 anywhere on the bottle on the UK equivalent of SnS. Images of the front/back of USA's SnS also doesn't mention SiO2, but it might be that they've made updated labels for the North American market? Anyway, as I mentioned in the post above (#285), my only concern is the effect on whether or not this product trashes microfibres making them unsafe to use again.


----------



## Sheep

KojakLives said:


> Thanks. There's no mention of SiO2 anywhere on the bottle on the UK equivalent of SnS. Images of the front/back of USA's SnS also doesn't mention SiO2, but it might be that they've made updated labels for the North American market? Anyway, as I mentioned in the post above (#285), my only concern is the effect on whether or not this product trashes microfibres making them unsafe to use again.


Yeah I noticed that. Canadian labels have it only... :/


----------



## Del-GTi

Just thought i'd post an update to my use of this. I tried applying it more sparingly, i.e. one spray per panel. I still find it a little slow to 'disappear' from the panel while buffing but I think i'm just used to BSD in that respect. It seems to flash-off faster.

No doubting it's ability to bead though:









Even beads beautifully on plastics:









For those struggling to track this down, Amazon are selling two bottles for £15 delivered or BSD is on offer with carparts4less for £6.37 with the weekend17 code.


----------



## RCCampus

Just noticed, Turtle Wax are doing 3 for 2 on this as well as some other products, £10 a bottle (£20 for 3)


----------



## Mikesphotaes

I hate seeing things go to waste!

So decided to use this on my wheels.

Half a dozen sprays on to a MF cloth did each wheel.

It buffed off fine with a clean MF cloth.

Will be interesting to see how long it lasts!


----------



## Scotty B

I only use it on the wheels for now and it's more durable than BSD.


----------



## davep

WristyManchego said:


> It's silicone. Used in almost everything.
> 
> How do you think they get "I can't believe it's not butter" to work?


I hope you posted this as a joke - this material is definitely not used in food!


----------



## Sheep

Scotty B said:


> I only use it on the wheels for now and it's more durable than BSD.


I've been using it on wheels and door/trunk jambs and underhood painted parts. Works well and is easy to use.


----------



## Loach

I have no idea why Turtle Wax would list sio2 on the Canadian bottles and skip this on the USA and European bottles, especially with the massive craze over anything listed as sio2 right now.

SNS is a unique product, it's pretty heavy, takes more effort to wipe clean and the first post-application gloss results are going to be noticeably lower as a result until the first wash, unless you wipe with some aggression. Hydrophobics are good, not BSD/Reload/Cure/IGL Premier, or CMX levels in the short term but very respectable. Chemical resistance is absolutely off the charts as everyone has shown, most other sealants I've tested are not even close to comparing to its performance in this category. Slickness is good, price is awesome. I would definitely avoid spraying a lot on the paint and I would avoid working in direct sunlight, I've seen streaking in my humid environment. I also noticed slight streaking when applying on top of CQUK 3.0 after 1 year without toppers, and a slight dip in hydrophobic performance. Which makes sense because it's a heavy product and will have the heaviness to overcome some of the base coating's hydrophobic performance.

I saw some questions about how the new Jet Black compares, and it's definitely much different. I actually like it a lot as well (they call it Black Polish here in the States), it has much more cleaning power as the description states, and once you get passed the cleaning phase on the initial wipe, it wipes down really nicely and immediate gloss readings are much higher as a result compared to SNS. Doesn't have anywhere near the same chemical resistance, but I like how it smells and hydrophobics seems close to SNS on the first rinse. 

Overall, SNS has strengths and weaknesses like all other products, but its strength of visible chemical resistance is extremely good and most likely at the top of its game in the spray sealant category, even outperforming some coatings. But short term chemical resistance is not necessarily a main determinant of real world durability, you can destroy many coatings in a short term chemical dump test but they will blow away Seal N Shine after the same 5 month timeframe on the paint on a daily driver and maintain stronger hydrophobic performance without toppers. But Turtle Wax has done a fantastic job of differentiating its performance from a lot of other great spray sealants that were released this year, and the current price is well under what I would expect it to go for.


----------



## Sheep

Loach said:


> I have no idea why Turtle Wax would list sio2 on the Canadian bottles and skip this on the USA and European bottles, especially with the massive craze over anything listed as sio2 right now.
> 
> SNS is a unique product, it's pretty heavy, takes more effort to wipe clean and the first post-application gloss results are going to be noticeably lower as a result until the first wash, unless you wipe with some aggression. Hydrophobics are good, not BSD/Reload/Cure/IGL Premier, or CMX levels in the short term but very respectable. Chemical resistance is absolutely off the charts as everyone has shown, most other sealants I've tested are not even close to comparing to its performance in this category. Slickness is good, price is awesome. I would definitely avoid spraying a lot on the paint and I would avoid working in direct sunlight, I've seen streaking in my humid environment. I also noticed slight streaking when applying on top of CQUK 3.0 after 1 year without toppers, and a slight dip in hydrophobic performance. Which makes sense because it's a heavy product and will have the heaviness to overcome some of the base coating's hydrophobic performance.
> 
> I saw some questions about how the new Jet Black compares, and it's definitely much different. I actually like it a lot as well (they call it Black Polish here in the States), it has much more cleaning power as the description states, and once you get passed the cleaning phase on the initial wipe, it wipes down really nicely and immediate gloss readings are much higher as a result compared to SNS. Doesn't have anywhere near the same chemical resistance, but I like how it smells and hydrophobics seems close to SNS on the first rinse.
> 
> Overall, SNS has strengths and weaknesses like all other products, but its strength of visible chemical resistance is extremely good and most likely at the top of its game in the spray sealant category, even outperforming some coatings. But short term chemical resistance is not necessarily a main determinant of real world durability, you can destroy many coatings in a short term chemical dump test but they will blow away Seal N Shine after the same 5 month timeframe on the paint on a daily driver and maintain stronger hydrophobic performance without toppers. But Turtle Wax has done a fantastic job of differentiating its performance from a lot of other great spray sealants that were released this year, and the current price is well under what I would expect it to go for.


You're Waxmode right?

If so, did you really shake the crap out of the product when you applied it? I did, and applied it in direct sunlight (cooled the panel with a damp MF towel first but still warm) and application was no problem. So far it has been really nice to apply, much better compared to BSD. BSD beats it for beading but overall it's a been awesome.


----------



## DouglasH

Looks like Euro Car Parts have it back in stock, got mine today after waiting 17 days.


----------



## WristyManchego

davep said:


> I hope you posted this as a joke - this material is definitely not used in food!


Might be time to put the kettle on and have a sit down with this journal: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10942910701584252

Silicone is used in almost every industry, is naturally occurring in foods and used as an additive.


----------



## Fatboy40

WristyManchego said:


> Might be time to put the kettle on and have a sit down with this journal: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10942910701584252
> 
> Silicone is used in almost every industry, is naturally occurring in foods and used as an additive.


So true, and it goes all over our bodies and hair each day as well in shower gels and conditioners (some of which will go in our eyes and mouths).

I've obviously got too much time on my hands but the various modified silicone's available can be used for so many different things, and Automotive is just a tiny fraction of their use (the variety produced by Dow Chemical is mind boggling).

It's interesting to note though that some global bodies are starting to raise concerns about their overuse and potential environmental impact.


----------



## roscopervis

Sheep said:


> You're Waxmode right?
> 
> If so, did you really shake the crap out of the product when you applied it? I did, and applied it in direct sunlight (cooled the panel with a damp MF towel first but still warm) and application was no problem. So far it has been really nice to apply, much better compared to BSD. BSD beats it for beading but overall it's a been awesome.


I was about to ask the same! If you are, the gloss video is really important I think, the buff and first wash show that objectively the gloss gets better. Subjectively, is this change enough to notice?


----------



## Loach

Sheep said:


> You're Waxmode right?
> 
> If so, did you really shake the crap out of the product when you applied it? I did, and applied it in direct sunlight (cooled the panel with a damp MF towel first but still warm) and application was no problem. So far it has been really nice to apply, much better compared to BSD. BSD beats it for beading but overall it's a been awesome.


Yes that's me, my paint temperatures are measuring around the 55-65°C mark in direct sunlight which is brutal for most products, but especially anything that has some heaviness to it in my experience.



roscopervis said:


> I was about to ask the same! If you are, the gloss video is really important I think, the buff and first wash show that objectively the gloss gets better. Subjectively, is this change enough to notice?


For me, on the test panel if I apply Seal N Shine regularly and then only wash half of it, I'm still not able to notice the difference subjectively. But I'm testing on lighter paints, on a jet black finish it may be better at pointing out slighter differences in gloss and/or depth from the unwashed residuals still left behind. But we also hear about this all the time from different users, with various waxes/sealants/coatings leaving behind a signature look, or some products looking better the next day or after a cure, or after the first wash, or possibly losing some of that luster after the first wash. The gloss meter should be able to pick up this difference throughout each stage as well.

Rhopoint covered the topic on their site that mentions around the 5 GU range should be visible to the trained eye to notice, but once you get up in the 90+ GU range I think I would be impressed if a tester could consistently point these sections out in a blind test.

Rhopoint: What difference in gloss units is visible to the human eye?

As we look to more objective ways to measure performance, we need to keep in mind some of the limitations of the gloss meter to direct us to the better looking LSP, especially if the measurements are taken directly after applying it to the paint.


----------



## davep

WristyManchego said:


> Might be time to put the kettle on and have a sit down with this journal: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10942910701584252
> 
> Silicone is used in almost every industry, is naturally occurring in foods and used as an additive.


Hi Wristy, thanks for the useful reading! However, I believe you are confusing Silicone with Silicon. The first is a synthetic substance the second is a naturally occurring substance, which is indeed found in many food products.
The synthetic substance is definitely not added to any food or beverage products intentionally. It would not provide any benefit. It is also not an EU approved additive.
Silicon Dioxide is a widely used additive, mainly used as an anti- caking agent in things like seasonings. It is not the same as Silicone
I am aware that there has been some publicity over the use of Silicone in the cheese used fir Pizza Hut pizzas - although I think this is probably "fake news"
Cheers


----------



## J306TD

Ordered 8th June. Finally had dispatch notification!

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## Compo

Mine arrived today from Amazon £7.50 each, only have detailedonline Ceramic Elite Detailer to compare it to.

I'll give it a go Friday. Longevity is the main point for me.


----------



## WristyManchego

davep said:


> Hi Wristy, thanks for the useful reading! However, I believe you are confusing Silicone with Silicon. The first is a synthetic substance the second is a naturally occurring substance, which is indeed found in many food products.
> 
> The synthetic substance is definitely not added to any food or beverage products intentionally. It would not provide any benefit. It is also not an EU approved additive.
> 
> Silicon Dioxide is a widely used additive, mainly used as an anti- caking agent in things like seasonings. It is not the same as Silicone
> 
> I am aware that there has been some publicity over the use of Silicone in the cheese used fir Pizza Hut pizzas - although I think this is probably "fake news"
> 
> Cheers


Apologies, I sent you a silicon article.

Silicone oil is just as widely used in cooking oil, food grade lubricants, ingestible pharmaceuticals, cosmetics and medical procedures.

It is in our bodies, just as plastic is: https://www.scientificamerican.com/...ound-in-peoples-poop-mdash-what-does-it-mean/


----------



## Mac-

I managed to use it for the first time today, it couldn't be easier. Nice and slick, smells ok for the type of product and leaves a great finish.


----------



## J306TD

Mine came today!

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## J306TD

Used this today. Tried on a dry car panel by panel. Found mist panel it just smeared. But mist panel and mist cloth wasn't too bad. 

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## Bristle Hound

My thoughts on this product :thumb:
https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=414617


----------



## virgiltracey

Had my first go with this on Wednesday to refresh the Mrs car before its MOT (yes it has to be clean inside and out for an MOT!) went on smoothly and the paint feels very slick with good gloss, there's nothing else on the paint (no wax or sealant) so it will be interesting to see it's longevity. not had a chance to see the beading from the rain on Saturday but i imagine it will be good.


----------



## Mac-

Here's my beading from a light shower yesterday.


----------



## J306TD

Beading from the rain today
















Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## E60525d

So whats the conclusion, is it a better product than BSD?


----------



## Mac-

Hard to say as I've never used bsd, however, I wouldn't bother trying it now after using this.


----------



## tabs604

I prefer BSD. This leaves streaks and takes longer to buff off.


----------



## Mac-

_It_ doesn't leave streaks, you leave streaks.


----------



## v_r_s

This and bsd both leave streaks when applied. You need to buff them both off


----------



## Sheep

tabs604 said:


> I prefer BSD. This leaves streaks and takes longer to buff off.


Footage of tabs in action.










Jokes aside, if you have one towel to spread, one to wipe, you'll do fine. There is enough footage of people applying this stuff without streaks to disprove it as a bad product.



> So whats the conclusion, is it a better product than BSD?


I'm running a test right now on my hood. Haven't done the first update yet though. Personally I prefer this, because it's slick and smooth, with 9/10s of BSDs water behavior.


----------



## Moleyman69

The only place I seem to get streaks is on my roof as it is a full-length black glass one. Thing is I only spot them when looking down on the car from an upstairs window! I just use a microfibre sprayed with distilled water and that seems to help get rid of them.

I don't see any streaks on my paint - although it is white


----------



## v_r_s

Washed car and applied turtle wax 3 sprays on the roof probably overkill if anyting.... Rain over night.










Quite good beading very similar to when I use BSD although the formation is different must have been due to the rain as the rest of the car is similar


----------



## roscopervis

Apart from the fact they are both sprayed from a bottle, they are quite different products and if used the same way, might not work as they should.

BSD is a QD in that it sits over lots of products well, doesn't need a cure or bond time and can be used well with water.

Seal N' Shine should be used on bare clean paint, doesn't sit well on other products, has a cure/bond time and shouldn't be used with water - ie a sealant. Using it like BSD, over a wax isn't a good idea. Using it under a wax is a much better idea.


----------



## Mikesphotaes

roscopervis said:


> Apart from the fact they are both sprayed from a bottle, they are quite different products and if used the same way, might not work as they should.
> 
> BSD is a QD in that it sits over lots of products well, doesn't need a cure or bond time and can be used well with water.
> 
> Seal N' Shine should be used on bare clean paint, doesn't sit well on other products, has a cure/bond time and shouldn't be used with water - ie a sealant. Using it like BSD, over a wax isn't a good idea. Using it under a wax is a much better idea.


Perhaps true but that would make the label inaccurate!


----------



## Mac-

The Turtle wax says it can be used wet or dry so I don't know what you're reading!


----------



## Blueberry

I used this yesterday for the first time on my OH's car. I applied it to wet panels after my final rinse as the label says it can be used on a wet or dry car. No smearing even on the black roof. Seemed to leave a nice gloss too. Look forward to seeing how it performs.


----------



## graeme

Well I ordered mine from cp4l on 8th June and I believe it might actually be getting delivered tomorrow. Will look forward to giving it a go some point soon.


----------



## WHIZZER

Mac- said:


> The Turtle wax says it can be used wet or dry so I don't know what you're reading!


I have used it wet and it works really well !!

:thumb:


----------



## roscopervis

Looking at the many many many tests that have been done on it, it is clear that water during application or shortly after application negatively affects the durability of the product. If used as a sealant it works a lot better than if used, like the bottle says or like a QD.


----------



## Deano9

I did my wife's fiesta the other night and finally got round to using this.
Used on clean wet panels, one panel at a time. Found it really easy to use.
Went on and off easy enough. 
Left a really slick finish and good gloss.

I found it better than rapid aqua wax.


----------



## RCCampus

Hi folks. I'm just after advice as to what can be used to apply this stuff, and what's the best way to apply it (I've seen a lot of people saying mist the applicator as well as mist the panel, although not sure how many sprays per panel). 

Cheers


----------



## Derek Mc

RCCampus said:


> Hi folks. I'm just after advice as to what can be used to apply this stuff, and what's the best way to apply it (I've seen a lot of people saying mist the applicator as well as mist the panel, although not sure how many sprays per panel).
> 
> Cheers


I am using a small microfibre cloth about 25cm Sq folded into four I apply two or three sprays from the bottle onto the cloth section, then spray three onto a wing, wipe over the entire panel, I then have a fresh m/f to wipe off and buff the panel a bonnet takes probably eight to ten sprays but I do it in a quarter section so two/ three and to a quarter of the panel, roof same and so on.


----------



## RCCampus

Derek Mc said:


> I am using a small microfibre cloth about 25cm Sq folded into four I apply two or three sprays from the bottle onto the cloth section, then spray three onto a wing, wipe over the entire panel, I then have a fresh m/f to wipe off and buff the panel a bonnet takes probably eight to ten sprays but I do it in a quarter section so two/ three and to a quarter of the panel, roof same and so on.


What kind of MF or will any MF do?


----------



## DIESEL DAVE

Bargain sealant


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## Derek Mc

RCCampus said:


> What kind of MF or will any MF do?


I just use the normal kent ones to apply and a 800GSM to final buff


----------



## N Nun

I did my car about a month ago and washed it today and looks like the TW is mostly gone, the bonnet and front bumper show no signs of it at all. The doors are ok, the rear still beads.

So I guess if you do a monthly top up it works well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brian1612

N Nun said:


> I did my car about a month ago and washed it today and looks like the TW is mostly gone, the bonnet and front bumper show no signs of it at all. The doors are ok, the rear still beads.
> 
> So I guess if you do a monthly top up it works well
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Strange as others are getting several months easily. What was your prep? What did you wash it with? Sounds like something is wrong.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Carlos Fandango

N Nun said:


> I did my car about a month ago and washed it today and looks like the TW is mostly gone, the bonnet and front bumper show no signs of it at all. The doors are ok, the rear still beads.
> 
> So I guess if you do a monthly top up it works well
> 
> That's not long I thought it was supposed to be the bee's knees regarding longevity for a spray sealant. Think I'll stick with Sonax BSD especially as it is so cheap from CarParts4less.


----------



## N Nun

Brian1612 said:


> Strange as others are getting several months easily. What was your prep? What did you wash it with? Sounds like something is wrong.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


I applied the TW on the 8/6/19 so a month and a half. I did a iron and tar remover spray, a clay bar, hand polish, IPA wipe, then TW x 2 coats.

I have been washing the car every 2 weeks since using BH auto foam and then a BH wash.

I applied another coat yesterday, it only took 20 mins so is not a huge process was just hoping it would last longer.


----------



## ajaxtreesdown

N Nun said:


> I applied the TW on the 8/6/19 so a month and a half. I did a iron and tar remover spray, a clay bar, hand polish, IPA wipe, then TW x 2 coats.
> 
> I have been washing the car every 2 weeks since using BH auto foam and then a BH wash.
> 
> I applied another coat yesterday, it only took 20 mins so is not a huge process was just hoping it would last longer.


I've been using this for a couple of months now and haven't seen any reduction in its properties since I last applied it which was the beginning of June. I wash my car every week and it's still beading and repelling water like the first day i applied it.


----------



## Brian1612

ajaxtreesdown said:


> I've been using this for a couple of months now and haven't seen any reduction in its properties since I last applied it which was the beginning of June. I wash my car every week and it's still beading and repelling water like the first day i applied it.


I applied it to the panels I hadn't machiend yet until I got around to machining and coating. At the 3 weeks mark after washing was still going strong... something isn't right. Been maybe 2 months now and it's still protecting the rear bumper and boot. Not quite as good but still doing well.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## nicks16v

Not sure if I am right, but I saw on various videos that it has to be applied to bare paint for best results.


----------



## Sheep

nicks16v said:


> Not sure if I am right, but I saw on various videos that it has to be applied to bare paint for best results.


That is true, it even says in on my bottle. My test section on my hood is still going strong after a month and some seriously heavy dirt.


----------



## HEADPHONES

I got a test going on my bonnet.
Not even bare paint.
SRP by machine.
Then 1/3 coated in Gtechniq C2V3, TW ice and a final third with a 50:50 mix of BSD and CG Hybrid Sealant V07.
It rained the next day.
Ideal beading test.
Driving on the motorway in the rain.
The BSD: CGV07 side saw the rain beads running up the bonnet at twice the speed of the TW and C2V3.

Static beads see C2V3 coming behind the BSD/CGV07 and the TW just minimally behind the C2V3.

Durability was not good for the BSD: CGV07 mix.
3 contact washes using Powermaxed Jetwash and Wax as a prewash and Simoniz wash and wax as a 2BM saw the beading really drop.
The C2V3 and TW are still going after 4 contact washes and 3 non contact washes using Powermaxed Jetwash and Wax as a prewash followed by a jetrinse with mineral free water from my dehumidifier.

I've just this moment also given the TW section a soak with a shampoo drenched kitchen towel followed by a jetrinse due to bird poop and it's beading like a trooper.
The TW was applied to dry paint on 22/6/19 not as a drying aid though


----------



## Sheep

HEADPHONES said:


> I got a test going on my bonnet.
> Not even bare paint.
> SRP by machine.
> Then 1/3 coated in Gtechniq C2V3, TW ice and a final third with a 50:50 mix of BSD and CG Hybrid Sealant V07.
> It rained the next day.
> Ideal beading test.
> Driving on the motorway in the rain.
> The BSD: CGV07 side saw the rain beads running up the bonnet at twice the speed of the TW and C2V3.
> 
> Static beads see C2V3 coming behind the BSD/CGV07 and the TW just minimally behind the C2V3.
> 
> Durability was not good for the BSD: CGV07 mix.
> 3 contact washes using Powermaxed Jetwash and Wax as a prewash and Simoniz wash and wax as a 2BM saw the beading really drop.
> The C2V3 and TW are still going after 4 contact washes and 3 non contact washes using Powermaxed Jetwash and Wax as a prewash followed by a jetrinse with mineral free water from my dehumidifier.
> 
> I've just this moment also given the TW section a soak with a shampoo drenched kitchen towel followed by a jetrinse due to bird poop and it's beading like a trooper.
> The TW was applied to dry paint on 22/6/19 not as a drying aid though


That's a pretty flawed test for these products, All of them like bare paint. Also using Wash and Wax type products will stunt water behavior as it will leave a residue behind.


----------



## HEADPHONES

Sheep said:


> That's a pretty flawed test for these products, All of them like bare paint. Also using Wash and Wax type products will stunt water behavior as it will leave a residue behind.


:lol: I know
That's why I put "not on bare paint" straight after.

This is just how I do things as I'd never have time to do a proper paint correction giving a nice bare paint base.

I enjoy using an All In One type product or glaze once or twice a year and simply apply a quick LSP or drying aid after every wash.
It's been hard resisting temptation to not use the BSD:cgv07 on the bonnet after washing as it gets put on everywhere else after every contact wash.

Just thought I'd share my experiences


----------



## Taxboy

HEADPHONES said:


> I know
> That's why I put "not on bare paint" straight after.
> 
> This is just how I do things as I'd never have time to do a proper paint correction giving a nice bare paint base.
> 
> I enjoy using an All In One type product or glaze once or twice a year and simply apply a quick LSP or drying aid after every wash.
> It's been hard resisting temptation to not use the BSD:cgv07 on the bonnet after washing as it gets put on everywhere else after every contact wash.
> 
> Just thought I'd share my experiences


I agree it's not a scientific test..... but it is a real world one. Most of us would try a new product over the top of existing ones rather than do a full strip back each time. Thanks for sharing your experience

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


----------



## Sheep

Taxboy said:


> I agree it's not a scientific test..... but it is a real world one. Most of us would try a new product over the top of existing ones rather than do a full strip back each time. Thanks for sharing your experience
> 
> Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


The turtle Wax Bottle specifically states to use SnS over bared paint for best results.


----------



## Mikesphotaes

Sheep said:


> The turtle Wax Bottle specifically states to use SnS over bared paint for best results.


Nothing of the kind on the UK label !


----------



## E60525d

Looks like the price of it has increased. It's nearly £10 on ECP after the discount.


----------



## Blueberry

I bought mine on eBay for around £8 and free delivery


----------



## E60525d

Blueberry said:


> I bought mine on eBay for around £8 and free delivery


Yeah that seems the cheapest option. Apparently they were £5 not too long ago


----------



## cleslie

E60525d said:


> Yeah that seems the cheapest option. Apparently they were £5 not too long ago


it was - I got 2 bottles!


----------



## Mac-

^^ Me too


----------



## Mikesphotaes

Well that lasted five weeks so more than pleased!


----------



## Blueberry

Euro parts have them cheap on eBay at the moment. Just ordered 2 more bottles


----------



## westerman

Blueberry said:


> Euro parts have them cheap on eBay at the moment. Just ordered 2 more bottles


Cheers. Had to order a bottle to see what all the fuss is about..Order placed and more money spent:lol:

Harry


----------



## Lexus-is250

Picked one up yesterday when I was in eurocarparts getting a few bits I'd ordered. Saw it whilst waiting so thought I'd grab a bottle, took it to the counter and the lady charged me £1.49!!! Result. Will keep it in reserve for another time or when I do the wife's car. 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## westerman

Came within two days, well done ECP.

Tried it out today, didn't want to strip my recently applied AG UHD wax so quick wash and applied TW on top. Very glossy and slick. On a par with Beadmaker and Infinity Wax Rapid which are two very glossy and slick QD's I have used recently. On the plus side TW is much cheaper and I'm looking at longevity which is said to be better. It's not onto bare paint as I've said so it will be interesting to see how it performs.

Harry


----------



## E60525d

Blueberry said:


> Euro parts have them cheap on eBay at the moment. Just ordered 2 more bottles


How much did you pay? Its currently showing at nearly £15 with no code.

Last week it was £9 after a code but even thats not cheap considering it was around £5 a few weeks ago.


----------



## Compo

Got 2 off amazon £7.50 each delivered im impressed for the price dont think it will replace my wetcoat though just yet but when im out of that and sio2 gloss i reckon ill stick with it 4 weeks so far and still good on top of the wetcoat.

Ill strip back when im out of wetcoat for a real test.


----------



## westerman

E60525d said:


> How much did you pay? Its currently showing at nearly £15 with no code.
> 
> Last week it was £9 after a code but even thats not cheap considering it was around £5 a few weeks ago.


I just paid £6-88 with Eurocarparts delivered, Never used a code. Ordered 4th Aug and delivered yesterday 6th.
They listed as 'only a few remaining' at that price. I suspect it won't be long before the offer comes again.

Harry


----------



## Blueberry

westerman said:


> I just paid £6-88 with Eurocarparts delivered, Never used a code. Ordered 4th Aug and delivered yesterday 6th.
> 
> They listed as 'only a few remaining' at that price. I suspect it won't be long before the offer comes again.
> 
> Harry


Same as I paid and super fast delivery from ECP


----------



## Blueberry

westerman said:


> Came within two days, well done ECP.
> 
> Tried it out today, didn't want to strip my recently applied AG UHD wax so quick wash and applied TW on top. Very glossy and slick. On a par with Beadmaker and Infinity Wax Rapid which are two very glossy and slick QD's I have used recently. On the plus side TW is much cheaper and I'm looking at longevity which is said to be better. It's not onto bare paint as I've said so it will be interesting to see how it performs.
> 
> Harry


It won't last as long but it still protects well


----------



## minimadmotorman

Ordered a bottle other day to put on a car I'm selling as I expected it to hang around a while however it sold within 2 days! Need to find something to try it on now!


----------



## Compo

Seems to be £14.99 on Eurocarparts now :doublesho


----------



## minimadmotorman

Cheapest I can see it is £10 on eBay now or £8.50 for 1 or £15 for two on Amazon


----------



## andyxedos

Applied 3 weeks ago with only a good wash as prep and washed once since. Seems to be lasting well!























Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## westerman

Now being shown as £8-09 delivered at Eurocarparts "Limited stock available"

Harry


----------



## Del-GTi

Little update on how I'm finding the longevity of this. It's now been on almost 2 months and still going fairly well. Left hand side is the TW and right is BSD. BSD was topped up though so not a fair test.










Also, the Diamondbrite Ceramic Glaze i'm trying is holding on well too:










I'm deliberately not topping any of these up now as I want to see how they last. I know it's summer so not a tough test but good to know.


----------



## Derek Mc

I know this post is useless without pics but just wanted to add something of a small update.
I tried the UK version of SnS on one of my alloys, the other three were done with Wowo's Crystal Sealant.
My wash regime is weekly, using a pump spray of a 15:1 dilution of G101 (It's a BMW any who own them will know that the are very dirty on the brake pads,,,) I then wash them using a soft cotton wash mitt, wheel woolies on the inner rim and monkey microfibre Mitt to wash the backs of the spokes.

Two months and the SnS has gone no beading remains and the clearcoat feels squeaky to the touch.
My other three still beading insanely. I might have found the first ***** in the SnS armour sadly as the wheels scrubbing regime in heavy rain has really tested the finishes


----------



## alfajim

yeah i put it on my alloys last week. the dirt will come off with a finger but it wont with a wash mitt. i'll have to give them a proper wheel cleaning next week and try something else.


----------



## minimadmotorman

Applied it to the bonnet and wing tops of my A6 over the weekend. I've got a 300 mile round trip this week them I'm off on a 1500mile round trip to France so be interested to see the results.

After application the paint felt nice and slick


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## washingitagain

My application of the TW product is starting to give up the ghost now - probably lasted 6-8 weeks on car which gets light use but kept outside. For me, that doesn't beat the insane longevity of BSD but will certainly use TW again.


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## steve67

two for £13.50 delivered...ebay...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Turtle-W...020452?hash=item42062662a4:g:rhgAAOSwzFRdSBol


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## ReyIndividual

washingitagain said:


> My application of the TW product is starting to give up the ghost now - probably lasted 6-8 weeks on car which gets light use but kept outside. For me, that doesn't beat the insane longevity of BSD but will certainly use TW again.


Hello! How long is Sonax Bsd lasting on your car? Thanks.


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## nicks16v

From the guys and girls that have bought this already, how would you say this compares to other spray on wipe off products ? I tend to wash the cars once a month atleast, and would always top it with some sort of sealant or wax at the end. As I'm getting a bit long in the tooth now, I am starting to use things that are pretty easy to use. My current fav is optimum opti seal, but that is about to run out. would this be a good replacement? Does it leave the paint slick ? I really just want something that will make the paintwork slick, but also leave some protection for about a month. Bouncers done and Dusted SI edition springs to mind also, but TW can be had for about half the price at the right place. Nothing wrong with the opti seal, but sometimes you get bored of using the same thing all the time and want to experiment with other LSP's. Your thoughts would be much appreciated. Thanks


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## Derek Mc

nicks16v said:


> From the guys and girls that have bought this already, how would you say this compares to other spray on wipe off products ? I tend to wash the cars once a month atleast, and would always top it with some sort of sealant or wax at the end. As I'm getting a bit long in the tooth now, I am starting to use things that are pretty easy to use. My current fav is optimum opti seal, but that is about to run out. would this be a good replacement? Does it leave the paint slick ? I really just want something that will make the paintwork slick, but also leave some protection for about a month. Bouncers done and Dusted SI edition springs to mind also, but TW can be had for about half the price at the right place. Nothing wrong with the opti seal, but sometimes you get bored of using the same thing all the time and want to experiment with other LSP's. Your thoughts would be much appreciated. Thanks


Honestly, I think for the money it's great but for me now with work commitments and family life I am seeking a longer duration and find that in the Wowo's much more than the SnS (UK) version.


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## washingitagain

ReyIndividual said:


> Hello! How long is Sonax Bsd lasting on your car? Thanks.


It seems to last ages. Hard to say as I tend to top it up but it's still showing beading 2-3 months down the line.


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## washingitagain

nicks16v said:


> I really just want something that will make the paintwork slick, but also leave some protection for about a month.


This is ideal then (IMHO). I found it super easy to apply, a slick finish and it certainly lasted a month.


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## ReyIndividual

washingitagain said:


> It seems to last ages. Hard to say as I tend to top it up but it's still showing beading 2-3 months down the line.


Thanks Washingitagain!


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## steve67

Received my order of tw wednesday, so popped out a and did a trial on the tailgate of my wifes cx3, for the price , the shine and the sheeting you can not go wrong :thumb:


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## iCraig

What’s this stuff really like on a wet panel rather than a dry one? Does it streak?


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## Exotica

steve67 said:


> two for £13.50 delivered...ebay...
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Turtle-W...020452?hash=item42062662a4:g:rhgAAOSwzFRdSBol


 Amazon 2x £14.99


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## Blueberry

iCraig said:


> What's this stuff really like on a wet panel rather than a dry one? Does it streak?


No it doesn't streak on a wet panel. I use it as a drying aid. I love it


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## iCraig

Blueberry said:


> No it doesn't streak on a wet panel. I use it as a drying aid. I love it


Thanks!

I currently use Meguiars hybrid ceramic wax and I find that really good, so if this can replace it that'd be great given it's much cheaper.


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## TeddyRuxpin

Sorry if this has been covered but - does this work as a topper for something BH DSW? I live rurally and want as much protection as possible! 

I've heard that it works best on freshly polished paint, though.

Currently, I've used DSW, waited a couple of weeks, done another layer of DSW, then used Sonar BSD after the next wash. Then after that used BSD as a drying aid.

Was thinking of stripping everything off before autumn/winter, but I like the idea of having a 'proper' wax on there as a bit more physical protection, before using something like this.

Basically, can you use this on top of normal wax as a topper, like I do with BSD?

Seems like it lasts longer than BSD and gives you the slickness that I miss, too. Helps when someone pushes you into the bushes on a narrow road!


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## steve67

TeddyRuxpin said:


> Sorry if this has been covered but - does this work as a topper for something BH DSW? I live rurally and want as much protection as possible!
> 
> I've heard that it works best on freshly polished paint, though.
> 
> Currently, I've used DSW, waited a couple of weeks, done another layer of DSW, then used Sonar BSD after the next wash. Then after that used BSD as a drying aid.
> 
> Was thinking of stripping everything off before autumn/winter, but I like the idea of having a 'proper' wax on there as a bit more physical protection, before using something like this.
> 
> Basically, can you use this on top of normal wax as a topper, like I do with BSD?
> 
> Seems like it lasts longer than BSD and gives you the slickness that I miss, too. Helps when someone pushes you into the bushes on a narrow road!


i have applied TW on top of zaino and it feels very slick, and appears to be lasting


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## washingitagain

What's the best deal on this at the moment? I'm being stingy but it's more expensive than it was at ECP even with their latest discount code.


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## TeddyRuxpin

Cheapest I've seen it recently is £13.50 for two on eBay, link in this thread!


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## TeddyRuxpin

steve67 said:


> i have applied TW on top of zaino and it feels very slick, and appears to be lasting


Thanks. I guess I am probably being a bit paranoid and old fashion in thinking that it can't be as protective as a paste wax! I'm probably wrong.

I just want as much protection as possible.


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## AndyKay

I absolutely love this stuff. I've put it on my daily and the Mrs' car. I bought 4 bottles the other day. Just so easy to use and looks like it lasts ages.

So on my weekend car, I thought I'd do a little comparison:

Audi R8 with CarPro Cquartz 3.0

Left half CarPro Reload
Right half Turtlewax Seal n Shine


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## Compo

AndyKay said:


> I absolutely love this stuff. I've put it on my daily and the Mrs' car. I bought 4 bottles the other day. Just so easy to use and looks like it lasts ages.
> 
> So on my weekend car, I thought I'd do a little comparison:
> 
> Audi R8 with CarPro Cquartz 3.0
> 
> Left half CarPro Reload
> Right half Turtlewax Seal n Shine


 Could you let us know which starts to fail first ?


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## GSB1

TeddyRuxpin said:


> Cheapest I've seen it recently is £13.50 for two on eBay, link in this thread!


I've been meaning to pick up some of the TW Hybrid Sealant to try, but haven't yet.

With pricing as above, this now puts TW Hybrid Sealant at £67.50 for 5 litres.

My personal favourite and benchmark product is Bouncers Done & Dusted Si Edition. DDsi is now only £44.99 for 5L.

The initial draw to TW H'sealant was the price. Now the price tables are turned, has anyone that has actually used both products got a preference for the TW product? If so why please?


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## steve67

TeddyRuxpin said:


> Cheapest I've seen it recently is £13.50 for two on eBay, link in this thread!


Same here ... Direct from Tw...

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


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## TeddyRuxpin

Just ordered the 2 x £13.50 on ebay!

Did you guys strip everything before applying, or just throw on top of your previous LSP?

I used BH DSW around March, and then since then I've been topping up with BSD.

(I will strip, cleanse, clay and hand polish sometime before the end of the year)


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## steve67

TeddyRuxpin said:


> Just ordered the 2 x £13.50 on ebay!
> 
> Did you guys strip everything before applying, or just throw on top of your previous LSP?
> 
> I used BH DSW around March, and then since then I've been topping up with BSD.
> 
> (I will strip, cleanse, clay and hand polish sometime before the end of the year)


hi, i just applied it on top of existing lsp, still looking good 1 month later...


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## washingitagain

steve67 said:


> Same here ... Direct from Tw...
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


Cheers all, got my x 2 bottles for £13.50 from turtlewax on ebay.

Amazing how that's the cheapest price anywhere and it's from the manufacturer direct. Fast service too.


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## TeddyRuxpin

How are you guys getting on with using it as a drying aid (after an initial dry application)?

And what about as a quick detailer - e.g. after washing I would use BSD for door jams and inner sills. I'm guessing SNS isn't quite right for this - so what do you use for that, just an APC?

I suppose for any places you won't touch, I don't mind continuing to use BSD.

But generally, I'm interested to know what you use as a quick detailer along with SNS, for removing the occasional issue.

Cheers


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## westerman

I tried this about 3 weeks ago on top of my existing wax (AG UHD) and I can't believe how good it still looks, how slick it still feels and how it's still beading like crazy. Great to use and now in my mind there's no doubting it's longevity.

Harry


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## Del-GTi

Last update on this for me - pic below shows coating after 3 months. Left hand side of bonnet is the TW, right side is BSD. As you can see, it'll still bead, however this was only after being coaxed into it by a very fine spray mist. It was wanting to slowly sheet off instead. The BSD on the other side was still beading better but hadn't been on as long.










I'm gonna end the test there as I don't see much point going any further with it. 3 months is a decent amount of time and as it's a spray, it's unlikely that you'd let 3 months of washes pass without using it again.


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## steveo3002

yeah agree who isnt going to recoat it over a month or two 

which one are you gonna stick with ?


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## Del-GTi

I’ve actually got TW, BSD & Diamondbrite Ceramic Glaze just now. At the moment the Diamondbrite is my favourite but I’ll probably do my usual and swap about.


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## TeddyRuxpin

Did my dads car today, wanted to test the turtle wax. It had been last washed 2 months ago, and BSD was applied. It was still beading okay.

Washed but didn't clay or polish. Applied dry/after drying the car. Here are some pics of the beading after a shower 20 mins after finishing. I hope the pics aren't too big.

You can see the beading... I want to agree with most and say its' not quite as good as BSD.

But, it has the slickness, which is really really nice and I missed from BSD.

Wish I could have both!

Edit: okay the pics were huge. Here are some links instead:

https://i.imgur.com/3QElKjp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/J4LlEYj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fRAYIl8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1t9zzIw.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/o7DZQaH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/D7Kq77j.jpg


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## The Sheriff

*bad streaks*

I used this for the first time yesterday, after all the recommendations.

Washed-dried car, applied using clean MF, and I was left with bad streaks, don't know if you can see in the photo?

What could I be doing wrong? The car was cool to touch


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## Mac-

Can't see the photo, but over application sounds most likely.


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## steveo3002

been a sonax bsd user and tried some turtle wax on one panel as a comparison 

turtle wax much slicker to feel and so far after driving in dirty rain that panel stayed about 50% cleaner , maybe due to the slickness i guess 

cant see a difference in how it looks , asked some mates too and cannot tell


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## iCraig

The Sheriff said:


> I used this for the first time yesterday, after all the recommendations.
> 
> Washed-dried car, applied using clean MF, and I was left with bad streaks, don't know if you can see in the photo?
> 
> What could I be doing wrong? The car was cool to touch


Probably over application, use a damp microfibre to buff them out.


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## Compo

The Sheriff said:


> I used this for the first time yesterday, after all the recommendations.
> 
> Washed-dried car, applied using clean MF, and I was left with bad streaks, don't know if you can see in the photo?
> 
> What could I be doing wrong? The car was cool to touch


 I find it dries and can be difficult to remove, cured this problem by applying to a single panel give it a min and buff off.

No more streaks and a very water repellent slick finish is the result. :thumb:


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## westerman

The Sheriff said:


> I used this for the first time yesterday, after all the recommendations.
> 
> Washed-dried car, applied using clean MF, and I was left with bad streaks, don't know if you can see in the photo?
> 
> What could I be doing wrong? The car was cool to touch


I've had the same but it's easy to overcome.
Hot panels will make streaking more common but in practice all that is needed is a bit of care. Like many similar products, levelling followed by immediate buffing is needed and is quite easy once you get the knack. 
I also like to spray the product directly onto a MF cloth, do a small area at a time and if you see a streak, simply wipe over it with the product wetted cloth and buff away. Works for me.

Harry


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## GSD

I always spray products onto the cloth not the panel too.


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## NorthantsPete

Sheep said:


> Why is that? Is there a cultural conflict or people just didn't' like them?


Yeah ICE isnt something we need or like int he UK tbh, its already cold. we like warm sounding things, like buttery, 'gold' or polymer sleants as our paint goes to crap in 10 minutes after waxing

we detail 90% before or after a rain session

"Dont us in direct sunlight" is normally a **** take as thats the only time we want to be out.. and we dont want ICE

It also doesnt mean anything, we need more detail int he uk, we like geeky stuff more than strange titles.

Not as much details as the germans, but somewhere in between cool and geeky.


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## iCraig

Used this for the first time today, goes on really nicely and wipes off easy too.

It’s currently in my garage so time will tell what it actually looks and beads like.


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## AndyKay

AndyKay said:


> I absolutely love this stuff. I've put it on my daily and the Mrs' car. I bought 4 bottles the other day. Just so easy to use and looks like it lasts ages.
> 
> So on my weekend car, I thought I'd do a little comparison:
> 
> Audi R8 with CarPro Cquartz 3.0
> 
> Left half CarPro Reload
> Right half Turtlewax Seal n Shine


6 week update:
This weekend was its first wash since the above. 
Snowfoam: ValetPro pH Neutral 
Shampoo: CarPro Reset 6ml to 6 litres










I absolutely love this stuff.

I applied it all over. Knowing it would rain soon, I didn't dry it so I let it get rained on to avoid water marks:


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## Lexus-is250

AndyKay said:


> 6 week update:
> 
> This weekend was its first wash since the above.
> 
> Snowfoam: ValetPro pH Neutral
> 
> Shampoo: CarPro Reset 6ml to 6 litres
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I absolutely love this stuff.
> 
> I applied it all over. Knowing it would rain soon, I didn't dry it so I let it get rained on to avoid water marks:


Must say for the price its impressive stuff and looks to be holding up well on your car. Used it on the wifes a few weeks back and got impressive results.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk


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## Analyzator

This stuff is dope!  looks on my race red are great and this is one of the products that is really doing a lot. Not the glass effect as lets say the king - prostuff watergold. More of a warm candy look close to carpro elixir or some carnauba sprays. Turtle is also even smoother than elixir and on top of that it is bit of a sheeter. I was topping with this for a consistent month early autumn and I am bought by the ability to keep my car clean. This is the product that dust is not easily stick to. On this regard it kicks all the spray products I have tried.

Gave this to my buddy to try and he used this on alloys. Month later it was still like new and doing perfectly fine.

I was looking for a spray sealant to have sonax bsd capabilities but better looking and smooth, without heavy cleaning additives - this is it. When the car is waxed and wax is doing fine, this is to topup wax on the wheels and for all hidden parts like door shuts etc. As we go further into the winter it will land on the paint to keep the protection until I can do wax magic again.

I am not impressed on the price point - I am impressed in general and will keep a bottle forever 

Here you can see - looks a bit dulled but consider the cloudy weather.


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## Andy from Sandy

> I am not impressed on the price point


Most of us got this stuff for £3.57 delivered. How can you not be impressed with that?


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## Andyblue

Andy from Sandy said:


> Most of us got this stuff for £3.57 delivered. How can you not be impressed with that?


I "think" he was meaning he wasn't just impressed because it was so cheap, he was impressed with it regardless of cost... (I think that's what he meant? But could be totally wrong)


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## Analyzator

Andy from Sandy said:


> Most of us got this stuff for £3.57 delivered. How can you not be impressed with that?


I am not impressed cause it is cheap stuff. I am impressed even when cost factor is out of math.



Andyblue said:


> I "think" he was meaning he wasn't just impressed because it was so cheap, he was impressed with it regardless of cost... (I think that's what he meant? But could be totally wrong)


totally right, love this stuff, tried many things but this one is one of the biggest surprises so far

One thing, maybe already you get some better understanding. Both Apex detailing and "forensic" did gloss meter test. Results was far different. Have you seen that?


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## iCraig

Gotta love this stuff! Looks amazing on my silver Kia Cee’d!


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