# Can a bodyshop recreate a factory finish?



## oreA (Nov 25, 2014)

My brand new car has a small manufacturing flaw in the bonnet. The dealer says to make it as good as new will require a full bumper and bonnet respray. PDR is not possible apparently because the issue is where the bonnet has been folded/welded in production.

I'm no paint expert, but I've had a few experiences with bodywork resprays and quite frankly the results have always been rubbish:


My wife's brand new Seat Leon was delivered to us with a resprayed door in a different shade of blue to the rest of the car and with masking tape still left on it - car rejected.

The replacement Leon had a minor front end collision - after the repair the bumper came back a different shade again. Had to be redone.

My C32 AMG was trashed the full length of the drivers side (hit & run to$$ers) - the repair was awful with dreadful orange peel, masking tape edges and they forgot to refurb the damaged alloys.

My wife's current Nissan Micra was bumped rear end (in queueing traffic) - the respray was a poor colour match. Sent it back to be redone, better colour on 2nd attempt but sanding marks visible and there's even a bit of bare metal that's been clear coated :wall:. The number plate fell off within a couple of weeks and the interior trim inside the boot was left loose.

I had a Lexus bonnet respray done - good colour match but didn't last, the stone chips and road rash were awful after a couple of thousand miles. Just wasn't durable?

Honestly I despair at the quality of the workmanship I've experienced, and as I said, I'm just a lay person when it comes to this kind of stuff. What's annoying is they allow this stuff to leave the premises in the hope they'll get away with it. Or they just don't seem to care?

So rant over and back to the point, would you live with this minor 'flaw' or risk getting it repaired and resprayed?

















Sorry for the long-winded post, thanks for your opinions :thumb:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I'd be rejecting the car. 

To require that amount of work to solve the problem isn't a minor issue in my opinion. 

A good bodyshop can make a great job of it, but I still wouldn't want damaged repaired goods when it's supposed to be new.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

Kerr said:


> I'd be rejecting the car.
> 
> To require that amount of work to solve the problem isn't a minor issue in my opinion.
> 
> A good bodyshop can make a great job of it, but I still wouldn't want damaged repaired goods when it's supposed to be new.


+1

thats pretty bad....how it got past QC is rather worrying...


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## cossiecol (Jun 29, 2014)

Kerr said:


> I'd be rejecting the car.
> 
> To require that amount of work to solve the problem isn't a minor issue in my opinion.
> 
> A good bodyshop can make a great job of it, but I still wouldn't want damaged repaired goods when it's supposed to be new.


Another +1 for this.


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## peterboy (Jun 19, 2013)

That can be done quite easily by the right bodyshop "Right" being the important word in that sentence. But as already said I would not be excepting a new car with paintwork unless a substantial discount was on the table.


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## daz12 (Jan 30, 2014)

What I can see from the photo it may be the clinch on the bonnet.They usually fold the metal over to create a smooth edge then seal it.
Looks as if it may of been folded over too far pushing into the main bonnet skin.
Such a shame it got to you before being spotted.Hope you get it resolved.


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## oreA (Nov 25, 2014)

daz12 said:


> What I can see from the photo it may be the clinch on the bonnet.They usually fold the metal over to create a smooth edge then seal it.
> Looks as if it may of been folded over too far pushing into the main bonnet skin.
> Such a shame it got to you before being spotted.Hope you get it resolved.


^ I think this it it exactly :thumb:

Not that it makes it OK, but the pictures make the flaw look more obvious than it is. It took me three weeks before I spotted it, and only then when the sun caught it just right. But no excuses, it should never have got thro' quality checks at factory or dealer!

As I understand it the car needs to presented to me in as good as new condition, and the dealer must be able to offer a reason why it wasn't originally (i.e. how damage occurred, in transit, during storage etc). If either of these conditions aren't met then the car can be rejected. I went through this with the Seat Leon that had a painted door when I collected it - whilst the dealer may have been able to redo it and restore it to new, they couldn't explain what had happened so accepted the rejection.


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## oreA (Nov 25, 2014)

Kerr said:


> To require that amount of work to solve the problem isn't a minor issue in my opinion.


I agree, it looks minor, but the fix is pretty major, good point :thumb:



Kerr said:


> A good bodyshop can make a great job of it, but I still wouldn't want damaged repaired goods when it's supposed to be new.


I could let them attempt a repair, and if/when it's not right, then go down the reject route.


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## oreA (Nov 25, 2014)

peterboy said:


> That can be done quite easily by the right bodyshop "Right" being the important word in that sentence. But as already said I would not be excepting a new car with paintwork unless a substantial discount was on the table.


Are you thinking accept a repair and take some discount, or live with it and take discount?


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

We get this regularly on the new mondeo. 

Fortunately we have a good team of pdr techs, so they can sort it out. 

On the mondeo it's not a factory defect, it's from pushing the bonnet down to secure the bonnet.


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## fozzy (Oct 22, 2009)

Firstly i'd reject it, but if you are keeping it, it's more than possible to get a better than factory finish on your car but the sad truth is there aren't many body shops about with the skill to get the job done.
We had a massive issue a few years ago with an insurance paint job all the details here ' http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=169546 ' but by the end of it the paint was incredible.


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## Crafty (Aug 4, 2007)

I don't see why it needs the bumper painted to fix that, the paint is new, there really shouldn't be an issue with colour match.

Are they going to put a new bonnet on it ? or fill the existing one ?

I have no doubt that a bodyshop can make that absolutely perfect. I've seen cars painted from bare metal up that you simply would not believe. Its all down to the amount of time and care put in to the job.

I don't think you can reject the car as-is and imho a decent repair would be deemed satisfactory enough. 

I would let them do a repair under the proviso that if you aren't happy it gets re-done. Get that in writing.

What you could also do is find a local independent that does high quality work and ask their opinion. A little way from me is a well regarded paintshop that does work on Ferraris and high end stuff. If the deal can't do the job well enough it needs to go to someone like that (and the dealer is paying!).

Does make you wonder where the car was damaged, should have been spotted leaving the factory and then again ad PDI at the delivery centre here and then again at the dealer. AFAIK dealer has no need to open the bonnet, not sure if the delivery centre would for PDI either.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

A good bodyshop can get a better than factory finish

Though i wouldn't have accepted that car


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## oreA (Nov 25, 2014)

Crafty said:


> I don't see why it needs the bumper painted to fix that, the paint is new, there really shouldn't be an issue with colour match.
> 
> Are they going to put a new bonnet on it ? or fill the existing one ?
> 
> ...


Seems like good advice all round, thank you. I do agree, I don't think I can reject it at this stage.

It's good to hear from some of you saying a proper job of the paintwork can be done. Perhaps I've done bodyshops in general a disjustice, obviously my experience of them has been poor in the past, but I guess there's a difference between your everyday bodyshop doing insurance work with quick turn around and pukka garages wanting to do a proper job. I know which one I'll end up with though :wall:. Perhaps poor repairs aren't unusual, it's just people couldn't care less?

I appreciate everybody's views :thumb:


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## squiggs (Oct 19, 2009)

In answer to the title of the thread ......
Most bodyshops can turn out good jobs - if they know they are getting paid accordingly for the care and attention (which equates to time) required to complete a flawless job.
The problem comes when the insurance companies dictate to a bodyshop as to how little time a job can be completed in, and are only willing to pay the bodyshop for those few hours.
To get an insurance job done in the limited time they are getting paid for and in order to make just a small profit most bodyshops have to sometimes rush the jobs and/or cut corners.


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## Danjc (Dec 1, 2013)

Have a read of this.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/34744/rejecting-a-new-or-used-car-top-tips


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## oreA (Nov 25, 2014)

Danjc said:


> Have a read of this.
> 
> http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/34744/rejecting-a-new-or-used-car-top-tips


Yep, that all makes sense and is sensible enough. I need to give the dealer a chance to put it right, but rejecting the car wasn't really on my radar for what seemed like a trivial 'flaw', and frankly I couldn't be doing with the hassle. I feared going down a respray route would create more problems, and again, I can do without them .

I truly am going round in circles :lol:.


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## transtek (Mar 2, 2007)

If rejecting the car outright isn't an option, then I would be asking for a new bonnet (to be inspected upon arrival to ensure that it isn't suffering from the same problem) and then have them paint only that. Once the colour match is spot on, the dealer should then install it, so the "original" paint on the car isn't even touched.


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## oreA (Nov 25, 2014)

transtek said:


> If rejecting the car outright isn't an option, then I would be asking for a new bonnet (to be inspected upon arrival to ensure that it isn't suffering from the same problem) and then have them paint only that. Once the colour match is spot on, the dealer should then install it, so the "original" paint on the car isn't even touched.


This is the sensible thing for the dealer to do, however I reckon they'll want to do it 'their' (<- read that as 'cheap') way, and if/when it goes pear-shaped they'll end up getting a new bonnet and front bumper as well 

Perhaps I should be a bit more positive about this


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## Danjc (Dec 1, 2013)

Find out who they are going to use for the repair and speak to them direct and find out what they intended to do and what type of finish to expect.


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## JCoxy (Dec 21, 2011)

Depending where you go, the defect will be fixed but as whole panels are being resprayed other defects may be visible in different places IE dirt inclusions, (black spots visible if the paint is white), depends on the time spent on it


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## oreA (Nov 25, 2014)

I spoke to the dealer today, I made it quite clear that it needs to be as good as new - that is the point here - new car, good as new .

I queried what would happen if the job done was not up to scratch, the dealer said my options would be: try again; have a new bonnet (but still bodyshop sprayed); steal a new bonnet from a car from their stock that's the same colour (but colour match might be a problem); reject the car (his idea :speechles).

I have booked it in on the 18th April, they want it for 5 full days. The dealer says he will do his utmost to ensure a pukka job.

I'm anxious, but don't think I have a choice but to let them attempt to make the car as good as new, as it should've been in the first place.

Thanks again for all the comments :thumb:


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## fozzy (Oct 22, 2009)

oreA said:


> I spoke to the dealer today, I made it quite clear that it needs to be as good as new - that is the point here - new car, good as new .
> 
> I queried what would happen if the job done was not up to scratch, the dealer said my options would be: try again; have a new bonnet (but still bodyshop sprayed); steal a new bonnet from a car from their stock that's the same colour (but colour match might be a problem); reject the car (his idea :speechles).
> 
> ...


Good look with it buddy, I'm sure they'll do there very best, just don't except it if their best isn't good enough.


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## Graeme1 (Dec 9, 2006)

transtek said:


> If rejecting the car outright isn't an option, then I would be asking for a new bonnet (to be inspected upon arrival to ensure that it isn't suffering from the same problem) and then have them paint only that. Once the colour match is spot on, the dealer should then install it, so the "original" paint on the car isn't even touched.


This isnt really a viable option. If you were to replace and paint just the bonnet it could stand out a mile. Personally I would remove both panels, repair the bonnet, won't need a lot.

Fully strip the bumper and bonnet down, prep them both fully, and then base the front edge of the bonnet and the top of the bumper, and then clear them all.

Only thing with white is sometimes you can see where the White basecoat has been faded in. It's just a colour that sometimes doesn't go down as well. If that happens the only way would be to base up the whole bonnet and bumper, with that you then run the risk of the top and leading edge of the wings and pillars not matching. It's a hard one but you need to give the chance to repair it.

The amount of new cars that are painted before the customer gets them is very high so as a re sale it's not a problem as long as the job is done well and right.


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## oreA (Nov 25, 2014)

Graeme1 said:


> Personally I would remove both panels, repair the bonnet, won't need a lot.
> 
> Fully strip the bumper and bonnet down, prep them both fully, and then base the front edge of the bonnet and the top of the bumper, and then clear them all.


I did ask what the process would be, and you've pretty much summed it up (the guy dealing with it for me used to work at the bodyshop where the car is going, and appears to be in the know).


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## Eddmeister (May 6, 2011)

My Astra had a similar issue & like has been said its probably been from someone putting the bonnet down with too much pressure.

For what its worth a fantastic PDR guy i know got it out for me.


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## Sportsvan jay (Mar 14, 2015)

oreA said:


> I spoke to the dealer today, I made it quite clear that it needs to be as good as new - that is the point here - new car, good as new .
> 
> I queried what would happen if the job done was not up to scratch, the dealer said my options would be: try again; have a new bonnet (but still bodyshop sprayed); steal a new bonnet from a car from their stock that's the same colour (but colour match might be a problem); reject the car (his idea :speechles).
> 
> ...


Your best bet would have been to swap the bonnet from a stock vehicle there would not be a issue with the colour and you would have still retained the factory finish I see this kind of damage every day you would be shocked at the damage that comes into our pdi centre all brand new cars either damaged in the holding compounds or in transit to the dealer


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## oreA (Nov 25, 2014)

There's still time, although the car's booked in, the dealer said I can still change my mind.......


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

A good painter and bodyshop should be able replicate an oem finish and a repair that can't be seen. Sorry to hear you've had bad feeling about previous work you've had done. Not all bodyshops are like that sometimes problems is quantity over quality with some bodyshops, were not all the same I would much rather do a quality job that s customer is happy with snd would return for more work if needed. Because it only takes one bad job to ruin your reputation. I hope you get the out come you wanted and it's done to your satisfaction.


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## oreA (Nov 25, 2014)

Just reviving this thread having recently had the repair done.

Initially I was pleased with the result. The dealer asked me to check the car over carefully, but I just couldn't do it in there & then, so I said I'd do it properly at home (and without someone looking over my shoulder ).

Anyway, the repair itself is pretty much perfect, I certainly can't see any signs of the original crease/defect. The colour match is pretty good too, and overall I'm happy with that aspect of the job :thumb:

Colour match:

































So I then started looking in more detail for faults & blemishes etc.

There is obviously some orange peel present, slightly different to the original paint, not necessarily 'more' but it looks slightly different, but bearable.

I found a bit of overspray on one headlight (which I've polished off) and some paint build-up where they had masked off along the underside front edge of the bonnet (I've left this for now)









Continued......


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## oreA (Nov 25, 2014)

I also noticed light scratching/swirls on the front bumper (which was also resprayed to ensure a good match)

Swirls on front bumper:









A few days on after leaving the car parked up at work, a few seagulls bombed the roof and bonnet good and proper. I soaked and washed the mess off as soon as I could )which was later that evening). The following day in the sunshine revealed that the offending mess had etched into the paintwork, but only on the bonnet with the original roof paint remaining unmarked. I also noticed the bonnet is already showing minor swirls. I also spotted a small flaw/irregularity in the clear coat which when I rubbed it came off revealing the primer underneath 

Flaw in paint/clearcoat:









Etching/minor swirls

















So have I been left with softer paint than the original? Will this get worse & worse? Or are these minor defects due to the paint shop not being careful when washing/polishing/waxing before handover?

This final picture is the grill when it was returned to me - sums it all up maybe?









I haven't spoken to the dealer yet, can barely face it TBH


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

The build up of paint on the edge of the bonnet is where it's been back masked leaving you with the edge your seeing. Ideally it should of been masked further in which doesn't give you a nasty edge of paint. The flaw in the paint will most likely not come out as to flat and polish it I'd hazard a guess it will strike through. As you've said the paint marked easily the clear could take up to 10-12 weeks to fully cureas solvents will still be evaporating but that said it should not mark easily the cars we paint the following day it's fully dry and not able to mark it. If it's still soft after a while worst case it will be the base colour is not fully dried prior to applying clear coat. The swirls ll be because polishers in bodyshops are not detailers and most just polish with compound for speed they don't refine it or check it for swirls.


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

I wouldn't be too happy with the chip, but the rest can be sorted out in half an hour.

Overall I'd say it looks like they have done a good job on the paint, but the final rectification had let them down.


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## JCoxy (Dec 21, 2011)

Looks a very good acceptable job, loads can go wrong doing this and as I said before to not have a black spec in the white paint is an achievement


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## REVERSiN (Sep 28, 2015)

oreA said:


> I also noticed light scratching/swirls on the front bumper (which was also resprayed to ensure a good match)
> 
> Swirls on front bumper:
> 
> ...


To be honest Ive seen worse....

You condition if fairly alright at least no sanding marks, nibs,dirt,overspray.... The spray seems fine as for orange peel (nope can't match the closest they would get is 80%) and think how much time would this take to experiment and achieve a close result.
Basically it's fine having orange peel some manufacturer have such bad ones that a body shop respray would look million dollar, again depends on who does the job and how long.

As for clear yes, a body shop clear is always softer especially on German cars, I came across a few clears most are soft the hardest I tried was Sikkens and still was softer to a point more than factory, to harden as paint you can add more hardener but too much well mess up, too little will be very soft that's why paint manufacturers make it usually 1/ 1.5 to be balanced.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


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## oreA (Nov 25, 2014)

Thanks everyone for your replies, I appreciate the advice & perspective :thumb:.

One or two have commented with "acceptable job" & "seen worse" etc., and I have to agree, based on my previous experiences which have been awful, the result here is excellent overall. But remember it's supposed to be a brand new car and the repair should be "as good as new", but as well as there being some minor defects and flaws remaining, I have the concern that the durability of the new paint isn't going to be consistent with the rest of the car (made worse by then fact it's the front end and that takes most of the abuse).

Anyway, I doubt I'll take the car in to the dealer (most of it I can sort myself), and I'll email them so they have in writing the situation just in case any probs arise in the future .


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## JCoxy (Dec 21, 2011)

The way I think of it is a new car from factory is made in a clinically clean environment where everything is new, we're humans who have to replicate that, and a human mark will be made. Yep as above clearcoat will always be a little softer than from factory, but durability will be fine


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