# Waterless wash systems - a first test



## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

About March time next year i'm sure DW will be awash with "what do i keep my car clean with when i'm at a car show" posts, well if it's anything like this year.

Being a friendly bunch, enthusiastic about car care we'll usually all post "leave it alone" there's no safe way to wash it without a bucket, mitt and loads of lubbie water.

Well I for one have never tried the waterless options available, and although I have my doubts as to how safe these can be, it would be rude not to.

So with a weeks dust on the wifes car boot, i was all set




























And the assembled test bunch










Proshine Spray and shine
Chemical Guy's ONE
Miracle Drywash

Plus a bunch of costco's finest MF's










The boot was divided up into three sections, and the Brinkman used to examine the dirty finsh




























First up Proshine Spray and Shine










This settles into two parts in the bottle when standing










The instructions say shake vigourously and rather nervously i shook away










and followed the instructions, spray onto panel










ready to wipe










Quick wipe over (feeling slightly sick at this point), it did feel a little gritty on the cloth with this one but glided around OK and then look at the cloth










I wiped in one direction before turning the cloth and this was the panel










Final buffing while turning the cloth










The finish










and under Brinkman










Looked pretty good at this point, but I intended to IPA the panel after, but this was done when the whole boot was finished.

On to product two and the middle of the boot section - CG ONE










this had a sediment around the bottom, which i'm led to believe is Kaolin clay (a filler!)










Instructions










With this one you spray the panel (thinner liquid this one)










Lightly wipe the panel in one direction only










Leave to haze and take a look at the cloth










The product hazes over



















Then with a new side of MF buff off to shine










and check with Brinkman










Felt a bit safer to use this one, with my detailing head on, due to the two part particle removal

Next up Miracle Drywash










Instructions










I had to improvise on the spray head on this one










Spray lightly (not really possible with the thick liquid through my improvised head)










Wipe over










and then buff

Felt really oily this one, the cloth was sliding about all over this one.

and by Brinkman










So the fruit of my butt clenched labour



















Now i wanted to remove the products to test if any filling of marring had been done so decided to check beading and panel feel.

First spray of water, the CG and Miracle product do claim to offer some LSP.

Proshine










GC One










Miracle drywash (Weird)










All










Next out with a new MF and some 50:50 IPA. The cloth turned each wipe

Then Brinkman

Proshine










CG One










Miracle Dry










All looking good at this stage, but the Miracle section still felt greasy and also the water test showed the same bead pattern










So it was out with the Menz Top inspection










This seemed to remove all the products fully, but the Miracle put up a fight.

So brinkman again fo the last time

Proshine










GC ONE










Miracle dry wash










So a few conclusions from me

A one off test didn't show any major marring but i would like to test a panel over a large period of repeated washing (panel in the garden might be the way forward during the winter i feel.

My current thoughts for show goers

If you drive a car to the garage nearest to the show and wash it using the jetwash and some proper washing gear. Then at the show these products do offer a better option than a simple QD for light dust offs that can't be removed with a Zym0l type duster. Long term testing is required to confirm how safe.

This is my first play and i fully intend to pursue my findings that they can help to lift and encapsulate dust and light dirt particles offering a potential show clean.

Caution should be exercised as to the particles on the panels to be removed.

Many thanks to Kev_F for the Proshine and the Miracle, and David G of Carwashnwax where i got the GC ONE with my 50:50's which were applied to the boot following this test

POST HERE

Maybe the world isn't flat?


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

I've been meaning to try a product like this, but have always been a bit dubious (sp). In my job, the car has to be clean no matter what. 

At least during days where I can't get the car cleaned, this may be an option.


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

got LOADS of that ProShine stuff. Thought it was cheap crap at 1st, but dad bought it me and said it's really good. And i must admit I have been impressed. Only used it a few times at shows.

As I say, I have loads. 2 of those spray bottles and 2 refill bottles (which IIRC are doube the amount of the spray bottles)


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

neilos said:


> I've been meaning to try a product like this, but have always been a bit dubious (sp). In my job, the car has to be clean no matter what.
> 
> At least during days where I can't get the car cleaned, this may be an option.


I'm not sure yet on the long term effects, or a rouge particle creating choas, but for light dust when you really can't get to water they may offer something.


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## Chris424 (Dec 5, 2007)

Good review! Thank you!


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## Lee_JTD (Sep 17, 2008)

I got sent a trial bottle of the miracle dry wash a while back, and with the supplied trigger it went on far thinner than that. Much more like a normal detailing spray iirc.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Lee_JTD said:


> I got sent a trial bottle of the miracle dry wash a while back, and with the supplied trigger it went on far thinner than that. Much more like a normal detailing spray iirc.


Yeah i knew it was wrong as soon as i sprayed but it was all i had. I suppose it just helped the safety margin, certainly made the product resilient.


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## 3dr (Mar 1, 2008)

Mat @ SWS said:


> got LOADS of that ProShine stuff. Thought it was cheap crap at 1st, but dad bought it me and said it's really good. And i must admit I have been impressed. Only used it a few times at shows.
> 
> As I say, I have loads. 2 of those spray bottles and 2 refill bottles (which IIRC are doube the amount of the spray bottles)


where did your dad get it from mat?


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Another great review again Jon, liking it.

Do you think that these may work on the old Hilux of mine?


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

L200 Steve said:


> Another great review again Jon, liking it.
> 
> Do you think that these may work on the old Hilux of mine?


Nope, that needs a few pre-soakes before anything touches it (I have offered though)


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

3dr said:


> where did your dad get it from mat?


dunno. He lives up louth and there's a detailers/valet place up there called M&P (M&P Valet I think). He knows them well, has done for years. May have got it through them. They're called Martin & Penny

Will ring/text him and ask him 2moz.


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## pugoman (Oct 27, 2005)

3dr said:


> where did your dad get it from mat?


idealworld.tv or there's a ebay seller that sells it.

If you take a look at idealworld at 11.00pm tonight, they have a 'blockbuster' deal running at the moment... it's currently undergoing a name change, no longer Pro Shine, but now called Showroom Shine.

It is a decent product. I don't use it to wash with mind you, but more of a spray wax product - although I wouldn't hesitate to use it as a waterless wash product if my car was just lightly dusty.


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## RandomlySet (Jul 10, 2007)

just found them via google

this is em

http://www.mandpvaleting.co.uk/

dunno how good they are. my dad always uses them. when we went to pick it up they were just drying the car. IIRC they may have used a water blade (can't remember TBH) and i think they dried it with microfibres

didn't see any other of the wash process

edit:

just goin through their site and OMG!?










Sponge! Looks like they dry with a chamois.

Like their options for car valeting. One option includes "a good wax" and the top option includes a polish, but no mention of a wax


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Jon, it seems you managed to get away with it on this occasion, but would you not advocate a much longer fibre towel/cloth for this type of application?
Short fibre cloths like those used, don't inspire me with confidence.


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## little john (Jun 10, 2007)

Now you just need to get out the enamel spray paint to spray on the car then put more spray and shine on to remove it after it has dried and the block of tar that you hit the panel with then use spray and shine to remove it.


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

using microfibre towels for waterless washing is not wise. creates drag
A chamois and one directional passes with no pressure will work the best


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

good stuff Jon - good to see the pictures after our discussions.

ONR (Optimum No Rinse) is a better solution IMHO. It uses water but can be mixed in a stronger solution and used like a super cleaning QD - no scratching, no fillers and no rinsing :thumb:


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## BEADING SHINY (May 21, 2008)

Good review :thumb:

Like pugoman said i wud use them as a spray wax after :detailer:. 

Seen pro-shine/showroom shine this morning on ideal world, a Merc Stealer uses it on their cars  if u look on the instructions its says 
2) Remove heavy dirt build from surface. Water is not necessary. (how do u remove this then)
3) Just spary pro shine waterless wash & wax on vehicle.


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## DIESEL DAVE (Jul 26, 2007)

Bigpikle said:


> ONR (Optimum No Rinse) is a better solution IMHO. It uses water but can be mixed in a stronger solution and used like a super cleaning QD - no scratching, no fillers and no rinsing :thumb:


Thats how I like to use ONR :thumb:


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

I tested miracle wash a while back as the guy who owns the company rang me after I left a comment on his youtube video saying it scratches! He sent me a kit, and I tried it on a dirty car, not just dusty, and under the brink, no swirls! IPA wipedown though, and swirls galore. I safely put my money on the fact it contained a LOT of fillers and that's how they can advertise that it doesn't scratch.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

That was really good Epoch


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Dream Machines said:


> using microfibre towels for waterless washing is not wise. creates drag
> A chamois and one directional passes with no pressure will work the best


Interesting comment - can you elaborate on why you believe it to be the case?
Surely a chamois will have drag too?


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Wonderdetail said:


> I tested miracle wash a while back as the guy who owns the company rang me after I left a comment on his youtube video saying it scratches! He sent me a kit, and I tried it on a dirty car, not just dusty, and under the brink, no swirls! IPA wipedown though, and swirls galore. I safely put my money on the fact it contained a LOT of fillers and that's how they can advertise that it doesn't scratch.


I would agree on a dirty car Paul this is no miracle wash technique or product. BUT what i tried to convey was that this may be a safer solution at a show for a dusty car. I'm pretty sure nobody on here would use these products to wash their cars INSTEAD of a water wash, but like the way in which all detailing is a development of other products i do think that these products culd offer a solution to the wize.

The Kaolin clay seen in the base of the ONE is a filler, that's used in many products for filling in car cleaning products, however here the attempt is to not use the filler element only the super lube bit.

If i was attending a show next year in a field i'd rather use one of these than a regular QD for a quick midday once over before judging etc.

The duster method would be my first choice and then one of these.

They may have there use for the educated detailer who attends car shosw and doesn't have a full mobile water wash system (like the Show Car Detailing washer).


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

PJS said:


> Jon, it seems you managed to get away with it on this occasion, but would you not advocate a much longer fibre towel/cloth for this type of application?
> Short fibre cloths like those used, don't inspire me with confidence.


As a further development yes, the longer pile MF's may be an advantage, although on this occasion the idea was to remove the dust in the solution rather with the towel fibre abrasion.

It deffo needs a lot more testing and the weather may be against me for the rest of the year BUT it was something new for me to play with and share with DW, I'm sure a couple of the tests i will be doing the coming year will go pear shaped and i'll be posted them up the same


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## ads2k (Jul 12, 2006)

Great review Jon 

Capt Morgan gave me some ONR to try following him and bigpikle using it during the summer, but I have yet to drum up enough courage to use it on the S2K what with it having reasonable soft paint.

Maybe you could try that one next, as Damon has said it's a half way house.

Great post again


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## Jakedoodles (Jan 16, 2006)

Epoch said:


> I would agree on a dirty car Paul this is no miracle wash technique or product. BUT what i tried to convey was that this may be a safer solution at a show for a dusty car. I'm pretty sure nobody on here would use these products to wash their cars INSTEAD of a water wash, but like the way in which all detailing is a development of other products i do think that these products culd offer a solution to the wize.
> 
> The Kaolin clay seen in the base of the ONE is a filler, that's used in many products for filling in car cleaning products, however here the attempt is to not use the filler element only the super lube bit.
> 
> ...


Absolutely! I do admit I've used the miracle wash on the van a couple of times before turning up to a job when there's been a bit of traffic film on it


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Wonderdetail said:


> Absolutely! I do admit I've used the miracle wash on the van a couple of times before turning up to a job when there's been a bit of traffic film on it


All we need is Uber Luber from Dodo an were sorted :thumb:


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2008)

Wouldnt something like AG Fast Wax have the same result?


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

matt1263 said:


> Wouldnt something like AG Fast Wax have the same result?


No idea, the floor is all yours Matt


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2008)

LOL

You have so much more experiance than me, so will dodge this!

But its just a simple spray on wax, with fillers of course, which makes sense for either a quick wash/wax or if at show a wax top up.

If you want some can send you some?

Sorry my fault its called: EXPRESS WAX

Just a quick thing, it does say use AFTER vehicle wash, can be used even when wet.

Spray on to bodywork, exterior trim, bumpers and glass. Use MF to to spread evenly, when applied to whole vehicle use 2nd cloth to remove.

Ok, maybe not exactly same as products being tested here but its got to be on the list for those wanting a quick spray on shine!


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

matt1263 said:


> LOL
> 
> You have so much more experiance than me, so will dodge this!
> 
> ...


It was the super lube of these products that i was going for, the filler and wax parts were largely an extra but it might work.

Currently i have more projects on the go than time

The Positector 200 is an excellent piece of kit but it really takes some playing to get the best from it. What i could tell and show you on the computer about the paint on our dishwasher would be scary :lol:


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2008)

:thumb:

But since I doubt very much anyone on here would actually use these products to clean their car with, they are going to be used just as a top up "bling" wax, and as such will stick with Express Wax. Its not the best (as someone will correct me  ) however it works for me and I am happy with the results it gives.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

I think it was Mike from Maguires that had 

"find something you like and use it often"

as a signature file for ages, he's a very clever man.

Is express wax the one applied to a wet car?


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2008)

It can be, yes.

Gather you have used it?


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

matt1263 said:


> It can be, yes.
> 
> Gather you have used it?


Nope, i've never used any of the AG professional range (apart from a small amount of the tar remover)

Heard good things about much of it though


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2008)

Ronseal products.

Does exactly what it says on the tin.

Wont preach to you about them, but if you want some samples to try drop me a PM and will post em to you.

(the acid free is really good, loves a decent shine behind)


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## Kev F (Feb 23, 2006)

Jon,

Good trial there but wayyyy too much Miracle Drywash. When SJ from Miracle Drywash came up to see me, he demonstrated it with a fine mist on a panel then apply with one m/f them take off with another.

I had some for a while on trial and used it on our carbon black Vito. Mainly before turning up at a clients to ensure it looked clean. It seems , as you have mentioned, to be ideal as a QD but I would be reluctant to use it regularly and certainly the majority of the clients we asked wouldnt want the product used on their vehicles.
I do hold a stock of Drywash though as the product is highly regarded in the caravaning circles and in this neck of the woods there are loads of mobile and static vans... Its also good on boats (again plenty around here on the Broads.)

The Proshine product is distributed by a company about 2 miles from me and again, they gave me a bottle to try as they were looking at starting waterless valeting businesses......

As mentioned in my PM...there are plenty of products out there (and many more in the US) that shout about no water cleaning and no paintwork damage but without actually doing a long term trial, the jury is still out in my view anyway. I am not 100% sure that damage would not be inflicted if these products were used on a regular basis. As some of the products include fillers, the average person is not going to see the damage and willcontinue to use it unaware.

Be good to see what effects the products have over a winters worth of cleaning though.

Thanks for stepping up to the plate and doing the test...It will hopefully answer the question that everyone asks when Waterless products are mentioned..


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2008)

I did wonder about the amount of product used, but having never even held a bottle didnt want to say.

But if a car has mud (inc grit) on it then it will scratch/swirl.

But as a bit of "bling" at shows on a dusty car?


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Thanks for starting it Kev

As you say when used as an uber safe QD it may well be cracking

The spray jet i used wasn't idea i must admitt


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## BretFraz (May 16, 2007)

Interesting test, thanks for posting it.

I'd be extremely wary of any product that said, "do not breath fumes, avoid contact with skin". There is no sense in using a product that dangerous when there are many other alternatives. There has got to be something like kerosene or toluene, an aromatic hydrocarbon, in that stuff to warrant such a warning.

The kaolin clay, Kaopolite SF or similar, in the CG product was probably acting as a mechanical cleaning agent, as opposed to a chemical agent as in the Miracle cleaner. In a product such as these, silicone oils would be used as fillers (and probably are).

ONR or QEW in a large spray bottle will work just as well and not hurt you or be abrasive to your paint. Even a normal QEW wash routine is possible as long as water is available. 

Thanks for the comparo.


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## Kev F (Feb 23, 2006)

Well, when I had the guy who invented Miracle Drywash up here, I asked what to do if I had a Range Rover that had been over the fields and was full of mud. How would I use the waterless product then.
He replied that I could use more product and eventually the mud would go or I could use a pressure washer to remove the most then apply Drywash to the rest (kinda defeats the object).

At a show, Sj had a S-series Merc and was asking people to try the Drywash and would give them £200 if they found that on applying Miracle Drywash it scratched the paintwork.....they never paid out once....go figure..:thumb:


The people who import ProShine have not change the name and there is a legal statement on their website stating legal action will be taken against those who continue...so for the record the bottle of Proshine is Proshine and will always be Proshine......


But yes MAtt, I would think with a dirtier car than Jon is demo-ing on, I would be very surprised for any of the waterless products not scratching...But this was one of the reasons for contacting Jon as we (the DW massive) may be too blinkered (surely not) and be missing a trick or maybe its all a big sham. Hence the need for a impartial test over a longer period of time than at a car show.....

At least Jon isnt going to set light to the boot of the BMW then wipe it off..:lol:


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2008)

At a show asking GP if they can find a scratch is pointless since they wont count the swirls to begin with!

However, I am sure if he turned up at a DW meet he wouldnt put the cash on the line :lol:

I am sure if I spray Express Wax straight onto a dirty car it will scratch, however on a dusty car it probably has the fillers in it to hide the fact.

As I have stated, I have never had these products in my hand, doubt I ever will, since I dont think they work in the way implied. But will they work as a QD? Thats the question which I think is being tested.

Lets see what happens after a few goes of them :thumb:


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Kev F said:


> At least John isnt going to set light to the boot of the BMW then wipe it off..:lol:


That might be fun to replicate 

I need to get me a bonnet to mount on the back of the garage which could be washed weekly after rain fall really.

I shall work on that


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## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

great test Jon thanks for sharing. definitley looks like a viable option when dust is the problem, would seem to have a lot more lubricity than applying half a bottle of QD at a show.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

panama said:


> great test Jon thanks for sharing. definitley looks like a viable option when dust is the problem, would seem to have a lot more lubricity than applying half a bottle of QD at a show.


The Miracle and GC ones felt more lubed BUT i did over spray the Miracle so it will be worth another retest


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

good review. Well done


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## johnalexwood (Oct 29, 2008)

How come the bottle you used didn't have a trigger? Where did you get it from for goodness sakes? It's great that you did a comparison but it's really not fair to be using Miracle Drywash incorrectly with the wrong trigger (and consequently be spraying on FAR too much onto the surface of the car) and then to claim that you've done a comparison, because you haven't! If you had told *** Products that you wanted to run a comparison, they would have sent you a bottle (with the correct trigger!!) with their complements!


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

johnalexwood said:


> How come the bottle you used didn't have a trigger? Where did you get it from for goodness sakes? It's great that you did a comparison but it's really not fair to be using Miracle Drywash incorrectly with the wrong trigger (and consequently be spraying on FAR too much onto the surface of the car) and then to claim that you've done a comparison, because you haven't! If you had told SJK Products that you wanted to run a comparison, they would have sent you a bottle (with the correct trigger!!) with their complements!
> 
> John Wood (on behalf of *** Products Ltd - 0800 *** ***2 - http://www.*************.com)


John -

Rather strange tone of first post there old chap, especially as the only reason that your product has been brought to the attention of over 15,000 members on here, is through the work of people like Epoch and Kev F.

I think that if you address the original poster in a correct manner, then knowing Epoch, he'll be more than happy to redo his test's taking into account the criteria you mention above.

Just a helpful tip mate.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

L200 Steve said:


> John -
> 
> Rather strange tone of first post there old chap, especially as the only reason that your product has been brought to the attention of over 15,000 members on here, is through the work of people like Epoch and Kev F.
> 
> ...


 I didn't think you were coming here anymore 

Anyway back on topic :thumb:


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## gt5500 (Aug 6, 2008)

johnalexwood said:


> How come the bottle you used didn't have a trigger? Where did you get it from for goodness sakes? It's great that you did a comparison but it's really not fair to be using Miracle Drywash incorrectly with the wrong trigger (and consequently be spraying on FAR too much onto the surface of the car) and then to claim that you've done a comparison, because you haven't! If you had told SJK Products that you wanted to run a comparison, they would have sent you a bottle (with the correct trigger!!) with their complements!
> 
> John Wood (on behalf of *** Products Ltd - 0800 *** ***2 - http://www.*************.com)


Nice attitude, I expect everyone will be rushing out to buy some miracledrywash now won't they. I can't understand all these comment about putting it on too thickly anyway. How would that make any difference?? since despite what the silly marketing claims these will scratch end of. I would think if anything that putting too much on might help to overcome the obvious short commings of the product. The short comming being that if dirt is on the surface it must be washed off or wiped off using water or some other liquid as a lubricant, it certainly requires more then a light misting of magic potion.


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

johnalexwood said:


> How come the bottle you used didn't have a trigger? Where did you get it from for goodness sakes? It's great that you did a comparison but it's really not fair to be using Miracle Drywash incorrectly with the wrong trigger (and consequently be spraying on FAR too much onto the surface of the car) and then to claim that you've done a comparison, because you haven't! If you had told SJK Products that you wanted to run a comparison, they would have sent you a bottle (with the correct trigger!!) with their complements!
> 
> John Wood (on behalf of *** Products Ltd - 0800 *** ***2 - http://www.*************.com)


How to win friends and influence people, eh? For a first post on a forum, that was hardly getting off on the right foot was it? which I'm sure in retrospect you'd agree?

Cheers to Epoch for the test, very interesting reading, mate :thumb:

Agree with gt5500 as well in that surely a slight excess of product can only help with reducing the risk of inflicting any paint damage.


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## johnalexwood (Oct 29, 2008)

Epoch said:


> I didn't think you were coming here anymore
> 
> Anyway back on topic :thumb:


Did I really come across as a rude boy? That was not the intentional at all! Please accept my apologies for the brusque tone! I hope you can understand, though, how it seemed Miracle Drywash was being unfairly judged as it had not been used as per the instructions, that's all. However, I do want to say how grateful *** Products is that you wanted to include Miracle Drywash in your comparative test in the first place. The fact that you would be prepared to do the whole test again with a bottle of Miracle Drywash (this time, hopefully, exactly per the manufacturer's recommended instructions, with the correct trigger) is wonderful!

Having looked at some of the many responses to your post, there seems to be a lot of confusion about what Miracle Drywash is and where it comes from. Let me clear that up as best I can:


Miracle Drywash is a home-grown British product that began life in a garage, then moved to new premises and has been steadily growing in sales and reputation since Day 1. It is now sold by Marks & Spencer, Autoglass, Amazon, Dairy Crest, Towsure (as well as a network of domestic and international distributors and resellers


The ingredients are mixed in house and then bottled


Miracle Drywash has nothing to do with any other car cleaning product (waterless or otherwise), some of which, I am sure, are very good products too.


If your vehicle is caked with mud, the correct procedure if to spray the mud with MDW and allow it to soak in, then wipe off and clean as normal.


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