# Fiesta



## L200 Steve

Wet sanding by machine -

Although wet sanding by hand using block and papers had assisted us to remove deeper defects, it was never a process that we'd taken to its limits, due to time constraints and worries over strikethrough. The machine wet sanding though seemed to be our next logical step in creating the best possible finish safely through minimal thickness removal.

Epoch made the investment in the Mirka wet sanders and Mirka Abralon pads. He already had a compressor so with the addition of a few air fittings; we were ready to machine wet sand.

What follows is a brief write up of how we learnt to use the Mirka gear safely, and the rather impressive results that we found came quite easily.

The equipment -










First up, the compressor -










The compressor is a Powercraft model identical to this Wolfair compressor (probably re-branded by Aldi or the likes)

Link to compressor - http://www.wolf-online.co.uk/product.asp?id=001619

This compressor is a 2.5HP model that runs from a normal 13amp 240 volt supply. It produces 9.5 cubic feet per minute (CFM) of air at pressures of up to 116psi. Although this compressor is on paper a touch small compared to what Mirka recommends, we found that its actual air supply was ideal for what we were using it for.

The Mirka sanders, with the selection of Abralon discs in the background -










Showing the larger Mirka ROS625CV 150mm model alongside the smaller Mirka ROS325NV 77mm version. The Mirka discs we used are 1000, 2000 and 4000 grit in both 150mm and the smaller 77mm.

The Mirka ROS625CV 150mm model -










The Mirka ROS625CV specs are -

Randon orbital sander - Central Vacuum 
Stroke 2.5mm/1200rpm 
Air consumption 481 l/min 
Weight 0.85kg

The Mirka ROS325NV 77mm model -










The Mirka ROS325NV specs are -

Random Orbital sander - Non vacuum 
Stroke 2.5mm/1200 rpm 
Air Consumption 481 l/min 
Weight 0.51kg

Mirka recommend that both their models of sander are not run at more than half speed, so you can assume that air consumption will also be halved. The Power craft compressor isn't so far out now.

You may have noticed that both sanders in the above pictures have interface pads fitted to their backing plates. These are essential to ensure the smooth transition over swage lines / body curves etc.

Here's the 150mm interface pad -










This is Mirka part number 8295900511. 
These are 7mm thick, and do not have any holes in them for the vacuum facility.

Here's the 77mm interface pad -










This is Mirka part number 8295700511 
These are also 7mm thick the same as the 150mm interface pads.

After trying to sand both with and without these interface pads fitted, the interface pads make the job a lot easier to achieve an even finish.

The speed control -










As mentioned earlier, both the Mirka air sanders are able to be speed controlled. This is made easy to do with the well placed speed controls.

The machine ergonomics -










As with all power tools, a comfortable grip prolongs the time that you can use the machine before fatigue sets in. The Mirka ROS625CV fitting very nicely into the palm of my hand.










As does the smaller Mirka ROS325NV. Both machines are controlled through pressing the trigger with the ball of the palm of your hand. Both machines transferred minimal vibration to the operative.

The Abralon pads -










The Abralon abrasive discs are designed to be used wet to help prevent clogging of the discs in use. We presoaked the discs in a bucket of warm water with a double strength mix of Meguiar's #00 wash in to act as a lubricant.

To see just how much liquid the Abralon pads hold, we recorded this little video -






The Mule -

To test out all of this wet sanding gear, we needed a mule car to practice on. Imagine my surprise when Jon phoned to let me know that not only had he secured us a practice car, but a black one at that.

The car in question is an R reg Ford Fiesta -










The car having spent it's life as a runaround, showing the battle scars and signs of neglect that most little runarounds do -










The car obviously needing a good wash, but we could already see that the paintwork underneath looked flat and lifeless. -










It'd obviously been a good while (if ever) that this poor little fiesta had received a coat of wax or another other form of protection for that matter, the paintwork very dry and grabby -










A quick tour round the car with the Brinkman before even the first wash stage let us know what the condition of the paint was going to be like underneath the grime-










This was just what we wanted for a test car, to see what the Mirka kit could do. You know that Jon will have a devilish grin of anticipation behind the camera in this early shot -










The Fiesta got the best of washes as per all details. There's no photo's but the process will have gone something like this -

Snow Foam from AB Daddy Lance 
Rinse 
Snow Foam from AB Daddy Lance 
Karcher rinse 
2BM with Megs Hyper Wash / Grit guards / shMITT etc. 
Rinse 
Treat lower sections with Autosmart Tardis 
Rinse 
Clay with Sonus Green 
Rinse.

I actually missed the full wash stage, as Jon had all this done ready for our first outing on the Fiesta with the Mirka kit.

Not wanting to be 'All the gear, no idea' with the Mirka stuff, and there being no real reference material on Detailing World with regards to machine wet sanding, we called in the assistance of an expert - Andy Mierau - Mirka's Senior Technical Sales Advisor -










Andy came along one afternoon along with Big Sid and Off Your Marks (Matt) for a bit of a Mirka demo day. We all listened, we all watched, we all laughed then we all had a go with the kit. That's how all good demo's should be. Andy left us with a good sound basic idea of what was what with his company's kit. Matt left us with a couple of coats of Royale applied to the Fiesta bonnet, to seal in the work we'd carried out that afternoon.

The Fiesta with a couple of coats of Z Royale on the bonnet, but the rest of the car crying out to be rectified -










It doesn't look too bad in the shade of Jon's gazebo (that would be my home for the next two weekends) . That is until we took the Brinkmann out on the wing -










Even from a distance the level of swirling was easy to see, so we went a little closer -










Eek, the swirling highlighted by the flash of the Fuji camera, so we went in even closer with the Brinkmann -


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## L200 Steve

The first step before commencing with the wet sanding, was to ascertain paint thickness levels on the area to be worked. I used my PositestDFT for this, as find that it gives a much more consistent reading in comparison to other PTG's. The idea being that we wanted to find a base point, to measure all reduction against. We found an area of the wing of the Fiesta that gave consistent readings over the area, and recorded our first reading -










114 microns read consistently on the area we used as base. We then proceed to level the area using 2000 grit Abralon pads on the 150mm sander. We found that by going slowly (1? per second) with the Mirka sander, using light pressure in a similar sort of action to using a PC that we could remove 1 micron per pass.

After 3 passes we found that the surface was a nice dull and flat finish -










We then took another set of readings with the Positest PTG, and as per expected, 3 passes equated to 3 microns reduced thickness over the whole panel -










We then went over the area with the Mirka 150mm machine and a 4000 grit Abralon pad this time. 2 or 3 slow passes the same as before left the finish with a satin finish -










Checking the finish with the Positest PTG showed that we had removed exactly on micron of total thickness with the 4000 grit Abralon pads whilst leaving the satin finish behind. Yet again, you can just spot Jon's manic grin reflected in the satin finish of the panel -










I was time to see how that marks polished out, before going any further. We've already seen that the marks left behind from machine sanding with the Mirka 4000 grit wet Abralon pads polishes out very easily, but wasn't expecting them to polish out quite as easily. This was after my initial pad seasoning session with just water before any proper polishing commenced -










There's a little video on Youtube that shows this actually happen -






You can see here though the comparison between the area polished by Metabo rotary using a Meguiar's W8006 pad with just water and the area untouched -










We'd found our process for leveling the paintwork on the full car. This method seems to level out the paintwork at the same time as removing the majority of deep swirls and marring. It also proved to be very easy to polish out the marks left after sanding with just a polishing pad and Megs #83. Confident in our found technique, we moved on to look at taking the sanding a step further, and look at removing much deeper defects using the Mirka equipment.

Luckily, there were one or two deeper marks on the Fiesta to challenge us -










The Fiesta had a nice set of graze marks down the nearside door. -










These were only just feelable using the finger nail technique. I'd normally hit these with the edge of a Meguiar's W7006 cutting pad using Menzerna Powergloss, or more probably end up leaving most of them behind.










After taking a set of readings, the area was wet sanded using the 150mm Mirka machine using 2000 grit wet Abralon pads. You can see us spraying the area to be sanded with a 64:1 mix of Megs #00 and H20 before sanding above. The area then hit three times to level out the paintwork -










The area sanded then dried using a Microfibre cloth, this leaving a lovely flat area -










You can see how dull and flat the paint looks in these photo's after the 2000 grit stage. This really helps in making any defects / RDS's etc more visible. Before any further rectification work could be carried out though, we took some more base readings with the Positest PTG on the area of each specific defect, in preparation of using the 77mm Mirka, but this time using 1500 grit dry Mirka discs -










Using the 1500 grit dry discs on the 77mm saw a lot larger removal of paint thickness in a lot shorter time than we had experienced using the wet method. Some of this will be down to the coarser discs being used, but also down to using the discs dry. One or two seconds of sanding in localised areas saw reductions of a couple of microns at a time -










Frequent stops were made to check the thickness of removal, plus we found that after only a couple of seconds of dry sanding that the discs start to clog up. We used these stops to clear the disc by across with your hand. If left uncleaned, the build up of clearcoat dust clogged in the pad tends to leave its own marks as you try and sand the area. Not good. -










Then cleaning the area that has just been dry sanded of any dust with a dry Microfibre cloth. This enables you to visually check your work as well as removing excess build up of dust that may clog you pad -










Once the area sanded has been checked, if it still needed further sanding to remove the defect, another check with the PTG was made. We used a 10% removal to judge when to stop sanding. At no point did we remove more than 10% of the total starting thickness, that was in most cases around the 120 micron average-










Including the initial 3 microns removed by using the 2000 grit wet discs, we tried to limit the dry sanding to 8 to 10 microns total removal. Aiming at all times to leave behind a safe finish -










You can actually see in the centre of the lower sanding mark in the photo above what looks to be a finger nail sized mark left after sanding. This was the remains of a much deeper mark, but one that we judged to be too deep to remove safely. The real benefit of this process was just how quick the defect removal is, and how controllable it is.

A couple of quick passes with the 2000 grit wet got rid of the 1500 dry marks. The 2000 marks, as always, easily removed by the 4000 wet discs -










Leaving just the quickest of passes over the area with the Metabo and a Meguiar's W8006 polishing pad along with a drop of Meguiar's #83 polish to remove the 4000 grit wet marks. The polishing being easier than normal, as you did not have to concentrate on removing any depth of defect -










Rather you were able to concentrate whilst polishing on just creating the nicest of finishes -










As you can see, the marks have all but just about gone.










Even using the flash of the Fuji failed to pic up on any traces of the scratches left remaining. This most impressive bit about this though was the minimal amount of clearcoat that we sacrificed to remove the defects. We could potentially have got similar results using a coarse compound like Menzerna Power Gloss with a cutting pad, and made many passes over the area. This we feel would have removed more total thickness than the sanding method.

Jon then continued with this method of wet sanding first (to scuff the area, and highlight any defects that might remain after wet sanding) followed by dry sanding with the 1500 grit before following on with wet sanding again to remove the 1500 marks and leave a finish suitable for me to polish.










You can see how dull the sanding makes the paintwork go well on this photo of the rear pillar -










You can just see in the above photo the minutest area of dry sanding left visible after the wet sanding stages, this was still easily removed by the Metabo.










Jon using the smaller 77mm sander with 2000 and 4000 wet discs to wet sand the tighter areas around the tailgate










The only downside to using the smaller sander for the tighter sections was that on occasion certain tighter areas could be a bit difficult to fully polish using the 6 1/2? Meguiar's pad.

The car was fully sanded both sides, including the removal of all defects possible using the 10% removal limit as a guide as well as being polished by rotary with Megs #83 on the Saturday.


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## L200 Steve

This left us just the roof to sand on the Sunday, which is where we truck upon a couple of problems. We found that the roof did not respond to wet sanding as well as the rest of the car had-










The sanding was leaving 'pig tail' marks in the paint, whether we used a brand new disc, or a slightly used disc (The discs seem to last for only about half a car before they loose their bite) Our checks showed that the paint on the roof seemed to be as original as the rest of the car, with no real difference in thickness










Even after using the 4000 grit, we still found that we were leaving slight pig tail marks in. We spent a good bit of time altering our techniques, but still came up with the same problem. It was decided that it may be best (as all of the defects were removed by this stage) for me just to polish the section out.










Imagine my surprise on completing my sets of polishing with the Megs #83 to notice the huge holograms left behind. No other section of paint on this car had responded in such a way. We put this down to the paint on the roof being overly dry. A good coat of Megs #7 show car glaze was used to remove the holograms.










The Megs #7 as a finishing polish as well as glaze left this finish behind, a subtle clue of what was to come.

The Meguiar's #83 on a Meguiar's W8006 polishing sets comprised of us spreading the polish on the slowest Metabo speed then increasing the Metabo speed up to 1500 rpm and working the polish until the residue turned clear.










If we had been aiming to create a LSP ready finish with this stage, we'd have finished off each set by slowing the rotary back down to 900 RPM and doing a couple of slow final passes over the area. This would have refined the finish to an acceptable level.










We had always planned to finish off the polishing with Menzerna PO85RD Final Finish. This is in my opinion the finest finishing of all available finishing polishes on most modern paint types. The finish left behind by the Meguiar's #83 alone looking quite good -










The Menzerna PO85RD Final Finish.

Using a clean Meguiar's W9006 finishing pad on the rotary, along with some well shaken to ensure that it is fully mixed Menzerna PO85RD Final Finish we proceeded to final polish the full car. Starting as always by loading the pad for the first set -










For the first set, I've started to use four times the amount of polish, as shown in the above photo. This helps load the pad up and assists in creating the type of finish that we were looking for. The rotary span for a couple of seconds on speed 1 on the Metabo to pick the polish up into the pad-










As you can see in the above photo after just picking the polish up into the pad. The rotary then used on speed one to spread the polish around the 18" square area being worked. Due to it being quite cold whilst we were doing the final finishing, the pad speed was slowly increased in increments up to its final working speed of 2000 RPM. This was done to aid getting some warmth into the polish which makes using this particular polish so much easier.










After working the polish at 2000 RPM for a couple of minutes, as can be seen here in this Youtube video -






The polish residue turns clear leaving just an oily residue on the surface being polished. You know when ithe residue has turned clear that the abrasive in the polish has fully broken down. When we reached this stage, we slowed the rotary down to about 1000 RPM and did a couple of light final passes to refine the finish. After finishing the set, the pad looks clean like the photo above. We've found that when using the Menzerna PO85RD Final Finish that if the set has been polished successfully then the pad should look like it does above, with no need for any spurring. If you need to spur than you may be using too much polish or not fully working the polish for long enough.










The pad was then loaded up ready for the next section. This was done by applying only two small pea sized blobs to the pad, then repeating the process as discussed above.










After completing polish the whole car, the pad looked like it does above. No spurring was needed during polishing today.










The polishing session with the Menzerna PO85RD really fetched some clarity to the gloss levels and wetness the wet sanding had created.










The car looking after wet sanding and polishing alone, probably the best that I've ever seen any finish in the flesh.

When the car was finished polished, Jon followed on applying a coat of glaze to the paintwork in preparation for the last stage wax. We used Dodo Lime Prime today as paint cleaner /glaze. Jon using the Porter Cable complete with One Grip and a Sonus DAS blue pad to apply the Lime Prime.

Here's a video of Jon making light work of the Lime Prime stages.






All of the glass had been cleaned using the Carlack Glass Cleaner, then polished using the Caralack Glass Sealant.

The trim received a coat of Black Wow.

The tyres received a coat of Swissvax Pneu, to make the tyres look factory fresh again.

The Dodo Lime Prime wiped easily from the Fiesta's bodywork with clean Microfibre cloths, leaving behind a gorgeous sheen to the prepared paint. It was time for LSP.

Today's LSP of choice was Z Vintage. Two coats in fact. Using a German applicator and warming the wax on the palm of his hand before lovingly applying with the red face of the German applicator, Jon gave the Fiesta it's first coat of Z Vintage. I followed on 2 panels behind removing it easily with fresh Microfibre.

After the full car had been treated to Vintage, and the residue removed, we carried out an inter wax wash stage using Z Clear with a Z sponge. This inter wax wash stage helps set up the wax, and make it cure quicker. This would enable us to apply a 2nd coat of Z Vintage straight after drying.

The 2nd coat of Vintage removed. Door shuts etc checked for dust, and the tyres dressed for a 2nd time with Swissvax Pneu, it was time for the final inspection under the lights of the Brinkmann torch-























































I know how much some of you like your Brinkmann shots.


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## L200 Steve

A couple more photo's of the finished Fiesta taken as we cleared up the kit -










The car now having a rather nice look to it, brought about by the wet sanding to fully prepare the surface, refined by the Menzerna PO85RD Final Finish and then highlighted by the Dodo Lime Prime and Z Vintage -



















It was then time to take the Fiesta out to find a location to photograph it properly, to show off the finish that we had created.

First up were a couple of comedy shots -










You can't restore a cars paintwork without taking it back to the dealers to show them -










I liked these -










Very fitting -










Then it was Brazo Time -










Hope that you approve Mark



















Then time for a few more just to show off the level of finish that we had been able to create on this R reg Ford Fiesta -
































































My two favorite pictures of the whole project -










How deep are those reflections?

&










How Black??

Thanks for making it this far with us. Sorry for the rather long post but Jon and I both wanted to try and share as much exciting information about the Mirka wet sanding process as we could with you all.


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## Clark @ PB

damn, the pics aint showing on my screen for some reason


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## CK888

me too, no pics for some reason.


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## Rowan83

WOW!! :doublesho 

Awesome work bud :thumb: 

Such a huge difference.


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## Exclusive Car Care

absolutey brillant work there guys:thumb: ... whats next then guys on the agenda?? any other big projects planned


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## Brazo

Yep fully approve  What did the dealership say? Bet the ten year old looked far better than their 10 minute old cars!!


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## megaboost

I can't the pics either but it's a good read, subscribed for when they start working


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## mzm70

Great read but can't see the pictures either


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## mistryn

great write up but as above i cant see any pics either (just a square box with X)


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## BIG BAVARIAN

very informative steve, as ever the innovator :thumb: :thumb:


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## Peter D

An absolutely superb job - the finished article looks so glossy! It really shows the amount of work you put in.


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## Auto Finesse

That has too be the best wright up i have ever read, so much info and very interesting read..... the finish is truly top notch...... one little thing for ya get one of the small air polishers for getting in to the tight bits that have been wet flatted the small sonus pads fit them too


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## drive 'n' shine

A really enjoyable and informative read - thanks Steve & Jon :thumb:

That has to be the most valuable 10 yr old fiesta in the country now :lol:

I bet this really has to be seen in the flesh to truely appreciate the finish

I am so itching to get out and do my car even more now!

How many hours in total do you reckon it took you guys from start to finish?


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## Mark J

Gobsmacked! :doublesho 

Incredible stuff and a top notch write up - thank you :thumb:


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## rubbishboy

Steve and Jon, that was a brilliant read. :thumb:


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## GlynRS2

That is an epic detail and the results are absolutely stunning :thumb:

Now you have practised on a 10yr old Fiesta to refine your new techniques I am sure we will be seeing a lot more of this


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## L200 Steve

Although I can see all of the pics on both my PC's, I've taken on board the fact that one or two others cannot share Epoch and I's experience so am currently uploading all of the photo's (89:doublesho ) to another server and editing the posts.

Normal service should be resumed by 18.00hrs tonight.

Sorry for any disruption


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## Maxym

Absolutely fascinating, and a real education. Amazing stuff. :doublesho Thanks, fellas.


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## Alex L

Fantastic write up, roll on 18:00 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


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## megaboost

I can see the pics now, if you haven't changed the links already you might not need to


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## Epoch

I really liked










Think yourself lucky there are over 8 hours of footage and 1000 pics of this detail


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## Epoch

Gleamingkleen said:


> absolutey brillant work there guys:thumb: ... whats next then guys on the agenda?? any other big projects planned


That would be telling, however the Gazebo might look a little different for the next big detail


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## xlfive

My favourite picture









Fantastic work there guys.i just love seeing older cars being brought back to life


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## Epoch

james b said:


> That has too be the best wright up i have ever read, so much info and very interesting read..... the finish is truly top notch...... one little thing for ya get one of the small air polishers for getting in to the tight bits that have been wet flatted the small sonus pads fit them too


Cheers James, the machines i have are only 2.5mm throw so it might take a while to break the polish down, it might be better suited to the 5mm throw machines but would be easier than doing it by hand

Deffo one for next time


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## panholio

Absolutely amazing.


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## Auto Finesse

Epoch said:


> Cheers James, the machines i have are only 2.5mm throw so it might take a while to break the polish down, it might be better suited to the 5mm through machines but would be easier than doing it by hand
> 
> Deffo one for next time


yer i remember talking with you about it i have the same two as you MIKRA ones .. but i got my self a little frecla polisher it dose take a bit of time to break the polish down but its better for cutting in


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## Epoch

james b said:


> yer i remember talking with you about it i have the same two as you MIKRA ones .. but i got my self a little frecla polisher it dose take a bit of time to break the polish down but its better for cutting in


The larger throw Mirka machines have a silver top/switch, I would imagine with the long you could do with out a PC?

May be a full air detail soon!

Is that Frecla a new machine? I saw a brochure in a paint shop in Stockport a while ago about a rather cool looking air machine!


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## L200 Steve

All of the photo's are now moved over to imageshack.

Sorry for the red X's fella's:thumb:


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## Mr Singh

Awesome write up 










Call me fussy, but there seems to be some OP still on the N/S wing. Ok, call it nitpicking :lol:

I would love to try the mirka out, sure would make polishing out scratchs caused by hand wet sanding easier, they will be inflicted without question, but with a DA be interesting to see!

Fab thread this though.. OP sucks!


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## bullit

amazing.

so what comments did you get when you took it back wherever it came from?


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## 182_Blue

Wow, brilliant, just brilliant


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## drive 'n' shine

Epoch said:


> Is that Frecla a new machine? I saw a brochure in a paint shop in Stockport a while ago about a rather cool looking air machine!


I think this might be the one James is referring to IRRC its made by Chicago Pneumatics

http://www.smart-express.co.uk/smart_polishers.html


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## A20 LEE

Mr Singh said:


> Awesome write up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Call me fussy, but there seems to be some OP still on the N/S wing. Ok, call it nitpicking :lol:
> 
> I would love to try the mirka out, sure would make polishing out scratchs caused by hand wet sanding easier, they will be inflicted without question, but with a DA be interesting to see!
> 
> Fab thread this though.. OP sucks!


I'd imagine thats under the clear as the wing looked uniformly matt as the sanding stage?

Nice one steve, tempted to go this route with the corrado but really like sanding by hand


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## Epoch

Mr Singh said:


> Call me fussy, but there seems to be some OP still on the N/S wing. Ok, call it nitpicking :lol:


On the few cars myself and Steve have been playing with, the main disapointment we have found is some of the OP is in the colour coat. Must be something to do with spraying we on wet not allowing the paint to flow out corectly before the clear is sprayed on!

The pursuit for the last 10% of perfection will lie in a single stage finished vehicle for the summer



Mr Singh said:


> I would love to try the mirka out, sure would make polishing out scratchs caused by hand wet sanding easier, they will be inflicted without question, but with a DA be interesting to see!


The evenness of the finish has to be seen to be believed, that was the thing that most impressed people when we did a few bits on MegaBoosts Supra (another car with some OP in the colour coat). This evenness really helps with the polishing stages.

I am proposing to take the kit (and hopefully car) to an event at some point to let people have a go (not on my car though!)


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## L200 Steve

Mr Singh said:


> Awesome write up
> 
> Call me fussy, but there seems to be some OP still on the N/S wing. Ok, call it nitpicking :lol:
> 
> I would love to try the mirka out, sure would make polishing out scratchs caused by hand wet sanding easier, they will be inflicted without question, but with a DA be interesting to see!
> 
> Fab thread this though.. OP sucks!


If you're nitpicking then have you noticed the black insulation tape holding the mirror on 

Due to the fiesta being a 2 stage paint with clearcoat, and most of the OP being locked behind the clear coat in the colour coat, we were always going to struggle getting a true OP free finish.

I think what we did manage to create though was a level of gloss from fully flattening the clearcoat. This in my eye's created a gloss level not matched by any expensive wax. It really does make the Fiesta come to life in the flesh so to speak, and well worth the effort.

What are you getting next after the Lexus Mr Singh? Perhaps Jon and I could have an away day with Jon's Mirka kit:thumb:


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## Epoch

drive 'n' shine said:


> I think this might be the one James is referring to IRRC its made by Chicago Pneumatics
> 
> http://www.smart-express.co.uk/smart_polishers.html


Yep that's the one, although in a fancy kit there.

Steve and I had a look at the Chicago Pneumatics stand at the local air specialist in Leeds (Thomas Wright) and they also do a version of the Mirka machines as well and some larger looking rotary style polishers.


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## drive 'n' shine

Epoch said:


> Yep that's the one, although in a fancy kit there.
> 
> Steve and I had a look at the Chicago Pneumatics stand at the local air specialist in Leeds (Thomas Wright) and they also do a version of the Mirka machines as well and some larger looking rotary style polishers.


I know Krystal Kleen (Mark) uses a CP rotary and rates it highly, and i believe (not 100%) they are the same as the Milwaukee rotaries


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## Mr Singh

L200 Steve said:


> If you're nitpicking then have you noticed the black insulation tape holding the mirror on
> 
> Due to the fiesta being a 2 stage paint with clearcoat, and most of the OP being locked behind the clear coat in the colour coat, we were always going to struggle getting a true OP free finish.
> 
> I think what we did manage to create though was a level of gloss from fully flattening the clearcoat. This in my eye's created a gloss level not matched by any expensive wax. It really does make the Fiesta come to life in the flesh so to speak, and well worth the effort.
> 
> What are you getting next after the Lexus Mr Singh? Perhaps Jon and I could have an away day with Jon's Mirka kit:thumb:


Hehe, i noticed the tape but no biggie on that one 

Yes, i suspect it is in the base coat too. What you guys have done is nothing short of amazing, looked a wreck before 

After Lexus goes, i'm probably going to have something completely different, but i'll have a toy too, which knowing what 90% of finishs look like will end up being wetsanding since i have an OP phobia.. I'll defo take you fellas up on the offer if it still stands 

A20 LEE: 'raddo + mirka... Do it


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## Neil_S

WOOWWWWWW!

That is another epic writeup Steve!

Just have to pause to take it all in, Jon actually emailed me a few pics last week, but in the whole context you can really appreciate them now, the gloss is outstanding, the whole look of the car, the depth and the blackness.

I am very impressed with that deep scratch removal too, just loved the kit when I was last up at your place, this really seems to be an essential bit of kit, especially for those with a business, people who want to take detailing very seriously.

Awesome work chaps


----------



## Trist

WOW, what an improvement! Fantastic reflections :thumb:


----------



## deej

Its very possible that little Fiesta could now have the best looking paintwork in the country  

Top job!


----------



## L200 Steve

Neil_S said:


> WOOWWWWWW!
> 
> That is another epic writeup Steve!
> 
> Just have to pause to take it all in, Jon actually emailed me a few pics last week, but in the whole context you can really appreciate them now, the gloss is outstanding, the whole look of the car, the depth and the blackness.
> 
> I am very impressed with that deep scratch removal too, just loved the kit when I was last up at your place, this really seems to be an essential bit of kit, especially for those with a business, people who want to take detailing very seriously.
> 
> Awesome work chaps


Nice one Neil, cheers mate:wave:

We really got chance to push this bit of kit on the Fiesta over the last couple of weekends. You are spot on with your comment re this being a bt of kit for those who detail for a business. The amount of time that it saved in not having to do many passes of a similar polish to reduce defects would save a huge amount of time as part of a detail. When time is money, this should make a huge difference for them.

The defect removal capabilities also greatly interested me. The ability to safely remove or greatly lessen the deeper defects made a big difference as part of the detail.

For me though, the most suprising part was just how easy the car was to polish after sanding. It was more like only giving the car a light spruce up polish rather than it being a defect removal job. I can't stress just how easy the consitent wet sanding marks were to remove compared to wet sanding by hand.

Hopefuly we can involve you in our next project:wave:


----------



## VTSKris

Very very nice work and good read. Was this done in Wigan? And are the last photos taken near the indoor carting?

Nice job !


----------



## Epoch

VTSKris said:


> Was this done in Wigan? And are the last photos taken near the indoor carting?


Yep, just past Galloways bakery and under the arch

and the trees up at Haigh hall


----------



## VTSKris

Good stuff, i usually make my way up to haigh hall to take pics. Thats some really imppresive work.

Kris


----------



## Epoch

drive 'n' shine said:


> How many hours in total do you reckon it took you guys from start to finish?


This job had a few (!) tea breaks where we were standing back and nodding, so probable the two of us for 12ish hours.

I would imagine you could do a full car detail on your own over 1 and a 1/2 days. About 12 to 14 hours (I know some of you guys do that in a day!)

The speed with which you can work the sanding discs is impressive. defect removal with the disks is deffo quicker than with pad and polish and it also has the effect of speeding the polishing stages up as already stated.


----------



## Epoch

VTSKris said:


> Good stuff, i usually make my way up to haigh hall to take pics. Thats some really imppresive work.
> 
> Kris


Not being a native Wiganer i kind of found Haigh Hall (having only ever riden through it on the Manchester to Blackpool charity bike ride) by the "it's somewhere over there" type driving. We would have had some cracking shots of the view from infront of the hall but for a small old lady admiring it herself!:lol:


----------



## drive 'n' shine

L200 Steve said:


> Hopefuly we can involve you in our next project:wave:


If you need anyone to make the tea more than happy to offer


----------



## Neil_S

L200 Steve said:


> Hopefuly we can involve you in our next project:wave:


Would be more than happy to help mate, I make a keen brew :thumb:


----------



## Neil_S

One thing that interests me is the glazing of the roof when the polishes were playing up. This would indicate that the glaze is indeed having some kind of interaction with the paint.

When I originally got into detailing I guess I was taken in by the Meguiars marketing blurb which likened a glaze to a moisturising cream, therefore my expectations were that you actually feed the paint.

Your findings would suggest that you did indeed feed this paint with the glaze and that made it more responsive to the polish. It interested me when Jon told me this a few weeks ago as when me and Alex did the XKR I had a mare on the roof with even 83 drying out. I think I got what you had on the roof of the fiesta, i.e. the oils were being absorbed and this made the polish fail.

This is interesting because I have had argument with a chap on another forum who insists paint is non porus, I understood that paint had microscopic pores and that a glaze would fill these and the level surface would mean an improved finish, but now I am wondering whether the paint does indeed absorb.


----------



## Epoch

And a nice curry it was too Neil

Yep the roof was a bugger, we think down to dry paint. The bonnet had been part of my big wax test (seen here)

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=45303

So had already had a going over with Z HD Cleanse (glazing oil rich) and then had this sealed in with some nice waxes. This appears to have had the effect of adding a bit of life and restored it a little where as the roof (the only other flatish horizontal panel) was unloved for a long time.

The polishing back of the bonnet even surprised Andy (Mirka guy) as he had said we wouldn't get good results on such old paint (hope your seeing this Andy).


----------



## Epoch

drive 'n' shine said:


> If you need anyone to make the tea more than happy to offer





Neil_S said:


> Would be more than happy to help mate, I make a keen brew :thumb:


You both appear to have missed my role in this project:lol:


----------



## L200 Steve

Neil_S said:


> One thing that interests me is the glazing of the roof when the polishes were playing up. This would indicate that the glaze is indeed having some kind of interaction with the paint.
> 
> When I originally got into detailing I guess I was taken in by the Meguiars marketing blurb which likened a glaze to a moisturising cream, therefore my expectations were that you actually feed the paint.
> 
> Your findings would suggest that you did indeed feed this paint with the glaze and that made it more responsive to the polish. It interested me when Jon told me this a few weeks ago as when me and Alex did the XKR I had a mare on the roof with even 83 drying out. I think I got what you had on the roof of the fiesta, i.e. the oils were being absorbed and this made the polish fail.
> 
> This is interesting because I have had argument with a chap on another forum who insists paint is non porus, I understood that paint had microscopic pores and that a glaze would fill these and the level surface would mean an improved finish, but now I am wondering whether the paint does indeed absorb.


The Meg's #7 bit really shocked me. The roof was a nightmare to try and polish out, the pad squeaking and making the pad hop. I wasn't getting anywhere fast, so Jon suggested hitting with Megs #7. I 'slapped' the Megs #7 on really thickly, rubbing it into the pours of the paint. Before I'd got round to the other side of the roof, the paint had absorbed the majority of the #7

I was planning on leaving the roof caked in #7 overnight, but Jon suggested removing what was left incase it stuck. I went over the roof a 2nd time with #7, this time applying normal amounts, then removing straight away.

It did seem to make all of the difference to the next set of polishing carried out on the roof, making polishing a breeze again and no holograms this time.

I think that the glaze stage (feeding of the paint) might make a bigger difference than we at times give it credit for.

The only other horizontal area of the Fiesta, the bonnet, had been glazed and waxed a couple of weeks earlier when Jon carried out his great wax test. I thing that it must have been Jon's feeding of the paint during this session that had helped make the bonnet so easy to polish out.

Perhaps the next time you are struggling with a polish such as 3.02, you should take a break and quicky hit the area with something glaze heavy like Megs #80 first. To see if this does make a difference.

The feeding of paint is an area that I will be investigating further though:thumb:


----------



## Neil_S

Epoch said:


> And a nice curry it was too Neil
> 
> Yep the roof was a bugger, we think down to dry paint. The bonnet had been part of my big wax test (seen here)
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=45303
> 
> So had already had a going over with Z HD Cleanse (glazing oil rich) and then had this sealed in with some nice waxes. This appears to have had the effect of adding a bit of life and restored it a little where as the roof (the only other flatish horizontal panel) was unloved for a long time.
> 
> The polishing back of the bonnet even surprised Andy (Mirka guy) as he had said we wouldn't get good results on such old paint (hope your seeing this Andy).


Curry for tea tonight too :thumb: :thumb:

I would assume that the flat surfaces are exposed to more UV and are fully exposed to weather and other contaminents, so it would stand up that a completely untouched car could be more difficult to polish on the flat panels than the side panels; this checked out with the XKR, the sides were responding nicely to the 3.02, but the roof just didn't. Interestingly after a few attempts I switched to very low speed and gradually got it working, perhaps it had slowly stopped absorbing oils from the polish and this allowed it to work?


----------



## Neil_S

L200 Steve said:


> The feeding of paint is an area that I will be investigating further though:thumb:


Thats good to know :thumb:

Good job I have #7 in the armour.


----------



## L200 Steve

Neil_S said:


> Thats good to know :thumb:
> 
> Good job I have #7 in the armour.


I think that Jon managed to find the Fiesta's paints saturation point when using the Lime Prime as well:thumb:

Jon - How could you tell when you'd reached saturation point?:wave:


----------



## drive 'n' shine

^^An ver interesting and valid point i think, a few week back i did a 14 year old red Nissan 300ZX and the only real horizontal area (roof was glazed targa panels) was the bonnet and everytime i cranked the speed up on the rotary the polishes played up, so ended up doing the bonnet with the PC. But after reading the following post i am thinking that this could have been the reason.

So yet another valuable lesson learn't today


----------



## Cliff

Very interesting, thanks for the great write up :thumb:


----------



## L200 Steve

drive 'n' shine said:


> ^^An ver interesting and valid point i think, a few week back i did a 14 year old red Nissan 300ZX and the only real horizontal area (roof was glazed targa panels) was the bonnet and everytime i cranked the speed up on the rotary the polishes played up, so ended up doing the bonnet with the PC. But after reading the following post i am thinking that this could have been the reason.
> 
> So yet another valuable lesson learn't today


It'd be interesting to see if this would assist when 3.02 is playing up:thumb:


----------



## Epoch

The glazing bit

I went around the whole car on the second saturday afternoon with Lime Prime on the PC and a Sonus DAS Blus pad (lots and lots of passes nice and soft so as not to inflict ANY marring).

This first layer was a thick layer (lots of product on the pad to nourish the paint) which buffed off easily (liking the DJ LP:thumb: ) and we left the car overnight.

I got up early on the Sunday morning and applied a normal (little) amount again using the same (but washed pad) rig. I must add loving the one grip at this point!



L200 Steve said:


> Jon - How could you tell when you'd reached saturation point?:wave:


It don't polish off cleanly! leaving a greasy smear (like unbroken down polish) After a few choice words a clean MF per panel turned regularly solved it no problem!

Clearly i had over applied the product (I knew this!) but the car and product wanted to tell me also!

The bumpers (a mix of home respray and dodgy smart repair) were only treated to Lime Prime and then wax. These areas took three good applications before biting back.

The wife actually washed my full compliment of Costco MF's after both weekends so we used around 200 for this job in total mostly down to drying the panels after wet sanding the first weekend.


----------



## Wheelie_Clean

Boys, this is such a cool, informative and thoroughly interesting project.

Out of interest did you sand the plastic bumpers? It's just they don't seem quite so glossy as the rest?

You have seen the future and it doesn't involve garlic bread!

Edit: noted the bumpers were not sanded!


----------



## Epoch

Wheelie_Clean said:


> Out of interest did you sand the plastic bumpers? It's just they don't seem quite so glossy as the rest?


See above, major disaster waiting to happen


----------



## MK1Campaign

Awesome work and write up but i cant help but think using Z vintage on a 10year old fiesta is a bit of a waste??


----------



## Offyourmarks

As I said when we met up for the meet; the next level is here and is mighty impressive.

hats off to jon and steve for taking the plunge and going for gold. Also for taking the time to write up such a detailed thread!

Thanks for having me over that day too - it was great and as a result i have the mirka gear in my kit collection. I have to agree the finish available is great.

Thanks again guys - amazing work and a hugely valuable write up!

Matt


----------



## L200 Steve

OYM said:


> As I said when we met up for the meet; the next level is here and is mighty impressive.
> 
> hats off to jon and steve for taking the plunge and going for gold. Also for taking the time to write up such a detailed thread!
> 
> Thanks for having me over that day too - it was great and as a result i have the mirka gear in my kit collection. I have to agree the finish available is great.
> 
> Thanks again guys - amazing work and a hugely valuable write up!
> 
> Matt


Nice meeting up with you again Matt mate:wave:


----------



## Epoch

Right bit of a speech from me this post, i'd gotten so carried away reading it i'd forgotten to say this!

Big thanks from me to Steve, we both agreed a group of enthusiastic people tend to push the envelope of each's ability further

This for me is a classic example.

On with the next!


----------



## Epoch

OYM said:


> As I said when we met up for the meet; the next level is here and is mighty impressive.
> 
> hats off to jon and steve for taking the plunge and going for gold. Also for taking the time to write up such a detailed thread!
> 
> Thanks for having me over that day too - it was great and as a result i have the mirka gear in my kit collection. I have to agree the finish available is great.
> 
> Thanks again guys - amazing work and a hugely valuable write up!
> 
> Matt


Thank you Matt,

Can't wait to see some of your work, hopefully in the flesh

The Mirka demo day was a good meet, one of which we should sort out a few more of


----------



## Bulla2000

THere are no words to describe it. Awesome!! Very good for learning. Thanks for sharing, well done!!


----------



## rubbishboy

Steve and Neil, paint is most certainly porous and the newer waterbourne paints more so, even to the extent that they can effect the durabilty of a wax or sealant by absorbing it away.


----------



## L200 Steve

rubbishboy said:


> Steve and Neil, paint is most certainly porous and the newer waterbourne paints more so, even to the extent that they can effect the durabilty of a wax or sealant by absorbing it away.


Cheers Ben:thumb:

Do you think that we may be better off Lime Priming to saturation to overcome this, before applying the wax?


----------



## Neil_S

rubbishboy said:


> Steve and Neil, paint is most certainly porous and the newer waterbourne paints more so, even to the extent that they can effect the durabilty of a wax or sealant by absorbing it away.


That is fascinating, in my early detailing days I wondered whether not using a glaze may be an issue, i.e. if I just wanted to use sealants all the time.

I assume that these nano crossed linked sealants would almost act like a barrier cream, i.e. they provide a barrier across the porus surface so that it can protect against contaminents etc.

The question is, I know you have done alot of work with your wax line, but for synthetics, how do they prevent the product being absorbed? Would long term use of a sealant be a potential issue, i.e. because your not 'feeding' the paint?

Just some random thoughts :thumb:


----------



## Epoch

Neil_S said:


> That is fascinating, in my early detailing days I wondered whether not using a glaze may be an issue, i.e. if I just wanted to use sealants all the time.
> 
> I assume that these nano crossed linked sealants would almost act like a barrier cream, i.e. they provide a barrier across the porus surface so that it can protect against contaminents etc.
> 
> The question is, I know you have done alot of work with your wax line, but for synthetics, how do they prevent the product being absorbed? Would long term use of a sealant be a potential issue, i.e. because your not 'feeding' the paint?
> 
> Just some random thoughts :thumb:


By nature the sealant principle freezes time stopping UV drying and moisture escape

Think Age defying barrier cream

My Silver Audi looks amazing (a little big headed maybe!!!) when its clean for a 135K 7 year old car. When i got it it had obvioulsy been waxed over the years keeping the paint in reasonable nick

First thing i did is HD Cleanse twice then apply a few layers of Z Titanium when i eventually washed this off with Carlack AIO and sealed with Polycharged SG (up to 5 layers now).

THe reason for me it looks so good is in part the fact that i feed it when i got it and have now sealed in the goodness

Sounds crap in type but it's whats in my head and the reason we tried Megs #7 on the Fiesta roof

More testing a deffo


----------



## Neil_S

Epoch said:


> By nature the sealant principle freezes time stopping UV drying and moisture escape
> 
> Think Age defying barrier cream
> 
> My Silver Audi looks amazing (a little big headed maybe!!!) when its clean for a 135K 7 year old car. When i got it it had obvioulsy been waxed over the years keeping the paint in reasonable nick
> 
> First thing i did is HD Cleanse twice then apply a few layers of Z Titanium when i eventually washed this off with Carlack AIO and sealed with Polycharged SG (up to 5 layers now).
> 
> THe reason for me it looks so good is in part the fact that i feed it when i got it and have now sealed in the goodness
> 
> Sounds crap in type but it's whats in my head and the reason we tried Megs #7 on the Fiesta roof
> 
> More testing a deffo


I understand that perfectly mate :thumb:


----------



## rubbishboy

L200 Steve said:


> Cheers Ben:thumb:
> 
> Do you think that we may be better off Lime Priming to saturation to overcome this, before applying the wax?


I suppose if you have saturated the paint with oils then it shouldn't absorb any more, but I don't know if you would get it to absorb enough in a short period of time. If it's very porous like the roof of the fiesta than you probably staurated the surface very quickly, but I wonder how much it could actually absorb say over 2 weeks.


----------



## Epoch

rubbishboy said:


> I suppose if you have saturated the paint with oils then it shouldn't absorb any more, but I don't know if you would get it to absorb enough in a short period of time. If it's very porous like the roof of the fiesta than you probably staurated the surface very quickly, but I wonder how much it could actually absorb say over 2 weeks.


The beauty about this for us was Steve applied the #7 twice on one day then it sat for a week under the gazebo adjusting.

I then Lime Primed Sat night and again Sunday morning

These timescales are far longer than people would usually allow for the paint to adjust.

I have read loads of posts on Autopia and Megs forum about guy's leaving #7 on cars in garages overnight (A #7 bath if you search). Megs don't condone it but those that have rate it!


----------



## Neil_S

Epoch said:


> The beauty about this for us was Steve applied the #7 twice on one day then it sat for a week under the gazebo adjusting.
> 
> I then Lime Primed Sat night and again Sunday morning
> 
> These timescales are far longer than people would usually allow for the paint to adjust.
> 
> I have read loads of posts on Autopia and Megs forum about guy's leaving #7 on cars in garages overnight (A #7 bath if you search). Megs don't condone it but those that have rate it!


Oh dear, I was thinking of doing just that when the weather picks up a bit on the A4! I'll have a search on Autopia :thumb:


----------



## Epoch

I'll fill the fiesta boot with white coats

It would be the best way to go for all of us!!!


----------



## Epoch

Neil_S said:


> Oh dear, I was thinking of doing just that when the weather picks up a bit on the A4! I'll have a search on Autopia :thumb:


The only thing for me would be, if it's outside all night, wind/air would dry the product from the outside.


----------



## Neil_S

Epoch said:


> The only thing for me would be, if it's outside all night, wind/air would dry the product from the outside.


Good point, maybe snow foaming and then washing it off instead?

Or I could evict my dad from his garage :thumb:

Have you got a link to the article? I can't seem to find it.


----------



## rubbishboy

Epoch said:


> The only thing for me would be, if it's outside all night, wind/air would dry the product from the outside.


Yeah you wouldn't want it to dry. How about a blend of oils that wouldn't dry out, no solvents and then cling film it for a week. :doublesho


----------



## Phil H

thats is seriously impressive, a great read! excellent!


----------



## Neil_S

rubbishboy said:


> Yeah you wouldn't want it to dry. How about a blend of oils that wouldn't dry out, no solvents and then cling film it for a week. :doublesho


Now that would get the neighbours talking :speechles


----------



## L200 Steve

rubbishboy said:


> Yeah you wouldn't want it to dry. How about a blend of oils that wouldn't dry out, no solvents and then cling film it for a week. :doublesho


I was just thinking that.

Find something really dry, and glaze one half of the roof thickly. Tape some polymask over it to seal it and then leave it for a fortnight. Snow foam it off then sand both sides of the roof and see / measure any difference:thumb:

I wonder if anyones got a faded car they want to lend us for a couple of weeks in exchange for a free detail?


----------



## Epoch

Neil_S said:


> Or I could evict my dad from his garage :thumb: .


Bit harsh of your mum!



Neil_S said:


> Have you got a link to the article? I can't seem to find it.


It may have been old Megs, we are talking 18 months ago but i will have a trawl

I just remeber Megs stating they wouldn't condone it!


----------



## Epoch

L200 Steve said:


> I wonder if anyones got a faded car they want to lend us for a couple of weeks in exchange for a free detail?


I have a pink Astra lined up for a free detail i'll ask him on Monday


----------



## L200 Steve

Epoch said:


> It may have been old Megs, we are talking 18 months ago but i will have a trawl
> 
> I just remeber Megs stating they wouldn't condone it!


IIRC Brazo did this with #81 on the bonnet of a pink Corsa:thumb:


----------



## L200 Steve

Epoch said:


> I have a pink Astra lined up for a free detail i'll ask him on Monday


Can we sand it:thumb:

Only joking - Might be worthwhile hitting it prematurely with a good dollop of #7 then sealing it in with #21.

I used to be able to seal in awesome #7 smears with #21 realy well when first getting to grips with the Megs range, so know it'll work :lol:


----------



## Refined Reflections

Superb write up and work, with amazing results, very well done :thumb:


----------



## Neil_S

L200 Steve said:


> Can we sand it:thumb:
> 
> Only joking - Might be worthwhile hitting it prematurely with a good dollop of #7 then sealing it in with #21.
> 
> I used to be able to seal in awesome #7 smears with #21 realy well when first getting to grips with the Megs range, so know it'll work :lol:


That sounds like a great idea, almost a proof of concept :thumb:

:lol: at the sealing in the smearing


----------



## Epoch

L200 Steve said:


> Can we sand it:thumb:


I'll ask, I don't think he'd mind it (based on it's current condition and the discussion we had) would just be the time implications that may be the problem

Leave it with me i'll report back

I could do the #7 and seal in the work's carpark


----------



## Epoch

Refined Reflections said:


> Superb write up and work, with amazing results, very well done :thumb:


Thank you Gary


----------



## matt

Just read this thread for the umpteenth time, and i have to say Steve and Jon, you both have created a fantastic thread and really demonstrated how effective machine sanding is. Its people like you who are being the first real detailing pioneers in this country and i think that all of us on DW should be grateful we have you here :thumb: 

Neil S, i also love reading your posts, you are one of the true 'thinkers' and bring alot to DW by challenging the 'usual' and maybe accepted ways of doing things and offering alternative thoughts on methods etc. Keep it up fella! :thumb:


----------



## CK888

Tremendous effort guys, so informative and a superb looking finish!

Fantastic thread Steve:thumb:


----------



## Neil_S

matt said:


> Neil S, i also love reading your posts, you are one of the true 'thinkers' and bring alot to DW by challenging the 'usual' and maybe accepted ways of doing things and offering alternative thoughts on methods etc. Keep it up fella! :thumb:


Cheers mate, I like to think that I don't mind asking a question that most people want answered but don't ask.

I guess the key is, be prepared to challenge the status quo (not the band), it's thanks to cutting edge stuff from Steve and Jon that we can do this and move all our knowledge on :thumb:


----------



## L200 Steve

matt said:


> Just read this thread for the umpteenth time, and i have to say Steve and Jon, you both have created a fantastic thread and really demonstrated how effective machine sanding is. Its people like you who are being the first real detailing pioneers in this country and i think that all of us on DW should be grateful we have you here :thumb:


Thanks for the nice comments Matt mate:thumb:

To be honest, I've done the expensive wax on the exotic cars bit, and although it was fun, it doesn't compare to the enjoyment that I got from wet sanding this Fiesta. It's little projects like this that I've been fortunate enough to be involved in that keeps my interest in detailing going. The opportunity to push the limits a little.

Big Kudos has to go to Jon for purchasing the Mirka kit, and most of all for inviting me along to learn alongside him. I do feel that what we found whilst sanding the Fiesta was information that may be of benefit to many of the detailers on Detailing World.

Hopefully in the New Year, I can talk Jon into taking the Mirka kit on the road with us, as nothing would give me more pleasure than to be able to demo what we found whilst sanding the Fiesta to people like you. I do feel that for those people wanting to take their finishes to the next level, this is a direction to investigate. I hope that my 'rather long' write up starts the ball rolling with a few more detailers:thumb:


----------



## Epoch

L200 Steve said:


> Hopefully in the New Year, I can talk Jon into taking the Mirka kit on the road with us


Count on it,

As you know i have a couple of big projects on soon (new baby and The Lab) but good to get some plans hatched

Be good to also take the , hopefully well tested by then, next level with us too :thumb: .

Did you see my PM with the reasonably priced discovery?


----------



## ads2k

A truly amazing 'detail'. Next level definately, should be in a museum for all to see.

I'd love to see both the car and the wet sanding it in the flesh !

Roll on the tour...


----------



## Epoch

ads2k said:


> A truly amazing 'detail'. Next level definately, should be in a museum for all to see.
> 
> I'd love to see both the car and the wet sanding it in the flesh !
> 
> Roll on the tour...


The kit will be doing the rounds as it will all fit in the car OK, i will ask the owner of the car when they return if we can use it a few weekends. I hope so as it still looks ace outside the patio window even on a gloomy day!


----------



## Wheelie_Clean

Epoch said:


> The kit will be doing the rounds as it will all fit in the car OK, i will ask the owner of the car when they return if we can use it a few weekends. I hope so as it still looks ace outside the patio window even on a gloomy day!


Ah, (penny drops) Thats why you didn't play with the bumpers! It's not your car:thumb:

I guessed you had bought the car to practice on and maybe sell for a profit after!


----------



## Epoch

Wheelie_Clean said:


> Ah, (penny drops) Thats why you didn't play with the bumpers! It's not your car:thumb:


Mmm kind of, the bumpers on this are the bumpy rubber type so even if we sanded them down the base has a grain we'd have had to sand off. I have been looking on Ebay for a proper painted set cheap but not seen any yet. I think they be chuffed with the car when they next see it as it is:lol:



Wheelie_Clean said:


> I guessed you had bought the car to practice on and maybe sell for a profit after!


I was actually floored at how much they are on ebay for, nah i have a whole list of friends cars to practice my detailing on lined up this one was a pure luck borrow!


----------



## Wheelie_Clean

I have the same issue with the wife's Rav4. Painted grainy effect plastics. (I think Steve has the same on his Toyota) Mild wet sanding improves them massively but I know the paint is original so there are no hidden surprises. The only downside is the extra gloss and reflection shows the ripples in the plastic, presumably where the fixings are.


----------



## L200 Steve

Wheelie_Clean said:


> I have the same issue with the wife's Rav4. Painted grainy effect plastics. (I think Steve has the same on his Toyota) Mild wet sanding improves them massively but I know the paint is original so there are no hidden surprises. The only downside is the extra gloss and reflection shows the ripples in the plastic, presumably where the fixings are.


Plus we didn't have the benefit of this little beauty -










That's a photo of my Positector 200 Advanced - It's an ultrasonic paint thickness gauge that'll measure on plastic:thumb:

I'd been down to see John Fairbrother of DFT Instruments the Thursday before to discuss this gauge and the upgrade of my existing gauge to a Positector 6000. Unfortunatley John only had the basic model in stock at that time (the advanced can read seperate layers of paint) so I had to wait until the advanced model was back in stock.

Not only should this gauge help when we come to wet sand bumpers, but should also help when we wet sand something with a composite body:thumb:


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## Wheelie_Clean

Show off:lol: 

I am not one bit jealous of course:wave: 

I think I would struggle to convince my boss that we really need one of those at work!

Ah well I'll keep on playing the lottery, one day.


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## stewie

well, I have spent a fair bit of time myself researching and looking into this system (as well as boring others talking about it!). Been speaking to people I know both in bodyshop and smart repairs. All are keen to see me go forward and recommended that I seriously look into investing in this system. I deliberately hadn't purchased anything up until now as I was struggling to find the answers to some questions. However, pretty much everything I wanted to know has just been answered. Thanks for such a superb write up, you said it would be worth the wait and you weren't kidding!

I have now decided I will be investing in this system!


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## paddy328

Wow is all i can say. Its something i think i will be looking into getting one day. Any chance of of a demo of this at coxy's on the 2nd?


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## Frankenstein

That is trully a magnificent result, many thanks to you all for writing up such a detailed report with pictures.
Steve, it would be great to be able to see this kind of sanding being done as it happens, so hope you will be able to tour.
Interesting that having done all the exotic vehicles and polishes now going back down, trully another case of " back to basics".
It goes to show that there is a lot more to detailing than merely polishing, a lot of research and science seems to have been applied.
Look forward to reading more informative details and that this has opened a new stage in detailing.
Look forward to meeting up with you again.


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## L200 Steve

Wheelie_Clean said:


> I think I would struggle to convince my boss that we really need one of those at work!


It's a bit easier for me, I run an industrial painting company.

I should imagine that you may struggle -though it would come in handy to measure the lacquer on your boxes


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## L200 Steve

Frankenstein said:


> That is trully a magnificent result, many thanks to you all for writing up such a detailed report with pictures.
> Steve, it would be great to be able to see this kind of sanding being done as it happens, so hope you will be able to tour.
> Interesting that having done all the exotic vehicles and polishes now going back down, trully another case of " back to basics".
> It goes to show that there is a lot more to detailing than merely polishing, a lot of research and science seems to have been applied.
> Look forward to reading more informative details and that this has opened a new stage in detailing.
> Look forward to meeting up with you again.


Cheers fella:thumb:

Next time we've got something planned at my gaff, we'll forward you an invite. :thumb:


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## Wheelie_Clean

L200 Steve said:


> It's a bit easier for me, I run an industrial painting company.
> 
> I should imagine that you may struggle -though it would come in handy to measure the lacquer on your boxes


:thumb: :lol:

If only!

My CM-8828 will do for what I need.

Plastics = 4" pads and a lot of checking for heat, although I was surprised at how much less heat they create.


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## Breezy

awesome work Steve I also sanded a few panels on my car usign the PC & some Mirka 2000 grit discs and 3M trizact 3000 grit discs but I did this dry I found all panels were ok apart from the roof which like yourself I found trouble sanding, I kept having to change pads as the pads seem to loose their bite pretty quickly for some reason and I had to polis hthe roof a few times to remove all the marks must be something strange with roofs!


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## spitfire

Epoch, I'm interested to know why you went for the Mirka tools as I guess there must be any number of air sanders available. BTW I admire the testing you've done so far with Steve. Wet sanding is probably the most hazardous paint correction work the unskilled can undertake and you and Steve have made it look so easy.


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## Epoch

spitfire said:


> Epoch, I'm interested to know why you went for the Mirka tools as I guess there must be any number of air sanders available. BTW I admire the testing you've done so far with Steve. Wet sanding is probably the most hazardous paint correction work the unskilled can undertake and you and Steve have made it look so easy.


Thanks,

I started out looking for a water feed machine to supply water to the surface when sanding.

Which was started by this post
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=44153

Supply for this machine appeared to be a bit of an issue in the UK which lead me to speak to a few local bodyshops. 
The favoured brand mentioned was predominetly Mirka, mainly due to availablity and supply. Another benefit that became evident was the Abrilon system, where by more than adequate water can be held within the pad by soaking before hand. Spraying the area with a spray bottle was then more than enough to keep the pad full for long sessions. This was also one of the big benefits we found.

They also mentioned support was first class (as proved with the demo and Andy).

So the Waterbug machine's availability coupled with the extra complication of having a bucket of water etc with a hose in as well as the air line i decided to follow the experts choice.

There are very many other machines of the same style (probably made in the same factory) like Chicago Pneumatics which will all do the same job (as long as they have the small throw).

But the foam backed pads from Mirka are the winners in my opinion. As Steve mentioned in the write up the dry pads when clogged (after only a few seconds) can inflict there own marring, which although slight detracts from the advantage. We will probably try 1000 Abrilon on the small machine for the spot attention next time.

Hope this helps


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## W3LSH

thats different!

great work and great results


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## Thomas-182

wow, excellent read, what a job! and that last picture is stunning. 

:thumb:


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## spitfire

Epoch said:


> Thanks,
> 
> I started out looking for a water feed machine to supply water to the surface when sanding.
> 
> Which was started by this post
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=44153
> 
> Supply for this machine appeared to be a bit of an issue in the UK which lead me to speak to a few local bodyshops.
> The favoured brand mentioned was predominetly Mirka, mainly due to availablity and supply. Another benefit that became evident was the Abrilon system, where by more than adequate water can be held within the pad by soaking before hand. Spraying the area with a spray bottle was then more than enough to keep the pad full for long sessions. This was also one of the big benefits we found.
> 
> They also mentioned support was first class (as proved with the demo and Andy).
> 
> So the Waterbug machine's availability coupled with the extra complication of having a bucket of water etc with a hose in as well as the air line i decided to follow the experts choice.
> 
> There are very many other machines of the same style (probably made in the same factory) like Chicago Pneumatics which will all do the same job (as long as they have the small throw).
> 
> But the foam backed pads from Mirka are the winners in my opinion. As Steve mentioned in the write up the dry pads when clogged (after only a few seconds) can inflict there own marring, which although slight detracts from the advantage. We will probably try 1000 Abrilon on the small machine for the spot attention next time.
> 
> Hope this helps


Are the abrilon pad expensive to buy and how long do they last before needing replaced?

The roof poser was interesting too. Never thought about paint being porous and funilly enough on the Finish Kare web site I was reading today they also talk of porous paint regarding their decontamination kit.


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## Epoch

spitfire said:


> Are the abrilon pad expensive to buy and how long do they last before needing replaced?
> 
> The roof poser was interesting too. Never thought about paint being porous and funilly enough on the Finish Kare web site I was reading today they also talk of porous paint regarding their decontamination kit.


I paid about £22.00 plus vat for a box of 12 Abrilon, you can do about 1/3 to 1/2 a car per pad based on our finding so far. Probably base it on three to four 4000 grit pads and two to three of the 2000.

The 1500 spot pads are about £10 plus vat per box of 50 and we used about 5 for the Fiesta


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## L200 Steve

spitfire said:


> Are the abrilon pad expensive to buy and how long do they last before needing replaced?
> 
> The roof poser was interesting too. Never thought about paint being porous and funilly enough on the Finish Kare web site I was reading today they also talk of porous paint regarding their decontamination kit.


If you want to know anything about the Finish Kare decon kits mate, just ask. I've used them a few times now:thumb:


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## spitfire

L200 Steve said:


> If you want to know anything about the Finish Kare decon kits mate, just ask. I've used them a few times now:thumb:


Donnyboy pointed me in the direction of your write up on the delivery of the Hilux. I just wondered what your opinions were of the decon kit. I didn't know if I should beleive the marketing blurb about porous paint and removing contaminants from below the paint surface. However that's for another thread possibly. I don't want to detract from the great work and write up your doing here. Carry on lads.:thumb:


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## Clark @ PB

Just spent a good 15 mins reading the whole write up whilst having a coffee break (still at work! :doublesho :lol: ) and i'm glad i did. I have to say that is probably the most informative post i've seen on DW yet (and there's been a few!), well done guys :thumb:


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## WHIZZER

well done chaps and i think a worthy contender to enter the hall of fame


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## AndyC

Second Whizzer's suggestion - and I can see a new DW section if we're not careful  :thumb: 

Steve you're raising the bar yet again and a trip to Leeds may be on my to do list next year if the 205 can make it that far


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## L200 Steve

AndyC said:


> Second Whizzer's suggestion - and I can see a new DW section if we're not careful  :thumb:
> 
> Steve you're raising the bar yet again and a trip to Leeds may be on my to do list next year if the 205 can make it that far


Nice one Andy, thank you:wave:

I'd definately be up for 'a little something' in the New Year if we can tempt you up. You're always welcome mate:thumb:


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## Dave KG

Superb to come back from holiday and read this - really excellent!! :thumb: 

As part of my "winter research" routine this year, I'm going to be playing around with a rather less impressive looking set up for wet sanding by machine - disks for the PC, which I've been toying with of late that seem to work well.

Impressive results there, very interesting indeed.


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## spitfire

Dave KG said:


> Superb to come back from holiday and read this - really excellent!! :thumb:
> 
> As part of my "winter research" routine this year, I'm going to be playing around with a rather less impressive looking set up for wet sanding by machine - disks for the PC, which I've been toying with of late that seem to work well.
> 
> Impressive results there, very interesting indeed.


With having a PC i'd be really interested in that too Dave.


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## GlynRS2

I see that you have been busy again:










..but this time didn't fancy polishing it out


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## Neil_S

AndyC said:


> Second Whizzer's suggestion - and I can see a new DW section if we're not careful  :thumb:
> 
> Steve you're raising the bar yet again and a trip to Leeds may be on my to do list next year if the 205 can make it that far


Thirded Whizzer's suggestion!


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## Epoch

GlynRS2 said:


> I see that you have been busy again:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..but this time didn't fancy polishing it out


I thought that when i saw it lol

Today sized up the next big sanding project to see if replenished moisture can improve the sanding and detail process.

You can see it will be a bit of work :lol:


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## GlynRS2

I look forward to seeing more of that one :thumb:


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## spitfire

^^^^ Wow! That really is the pits!


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## Epoch

spitfire said:


> ^^^^ Wow! That really is the pits!


You can actually see the owner reflected in the bonnet scratching his head :lol:

He just uses it to get to work and back and hasn't washed it in the three years hes owned it!

It was drinking Megs#7 today in the test square (three full applications bfore i gave up and Hard Candied it (just the square mind:lol: )


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## spitfire

I look forward to the write up.:thumb:


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## L200 Steve

Ask the Astra owner what it is worth Jon, as I think that'd make a great company car / detailing meet transport:thumb: 

Mask it down the middle and just hit one half with the full arsenal of products / procedures. Make it look all slick 'n shiny glossy red again.

You could then park the shiny side blocking your patio windows, so Mrs Epoch doesn't complain too much:lol: 

You know I am serious, I'll be twisting your arm on Sunday:wave:


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## Epoch

Mrs Epoch actually went out this week and bought new vertical blinds for the patio window!

Don't think it's related do you?


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## Neil_S

L200 Steve said:


> Ask the Astra owner what it is worth Jon, as I think that'd make a great company car / detailing meet transport:thumb:
> 
> Mask it down the middle and just hit one half with the full arsenal of products / procedures. Make it look all slick 'n shiny glossy red again.
> 
> You could then park the shiny side blocking your patio windows, so Mrs Epoch doesn't complain too much:lol:
> 
> You know I am serious, I'll be twisting your arm on Sunday:wave:


:lol:

Seriously, I have always wanted to do half a car! Do it!


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## GlynRS2

L200 Steve said:


> Ask the Astra owner what it is worth Jon, as I think that'd make a great company car / detailing meet transport:thumb:
> 
> Mask it down the middle and just hit one half with the full arsenal of products / procedures. Make it look all slick 'n shiny glossy red again.


A top suggestion - go on, you know you want to :buffer: :thumb:


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## Neil_S

Alternatively, mask off two lines on the car for faded go faster stripes!


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## Epoch

I added Megs #5 (supposed to be as good as #7 but also works in humid conitions) and half a gallon of #7 to the arsenal today. 

When i said i was going to glaze it up i mean't glaze it up!

Just thought the #5 may have some different oils in so worth a try


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## Neil_S

Half a gallon :lol:

Need to get a bigger version of the Polished Bliss paddling pool and submerge the vehicle!


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## L200 Steve

Epoch said:


> I added Megs #5 (supposed to be as good as #7 but also works in humid conitions) and half a gallon of #7 to the arsenal today.
> 
> When i said i was going to glaze it up i mean't glaze it up!
> 
> Just thought the #5 may have some different oils in so worth a try


I've a gallon of #3 in the garage that I'm willing to donate:wave:

I think that this astra might take a drop or two of glaze to refeed the paint:lol:


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## gti mad man

cool guide guys dnt shoot me down but have any sanding marks reapereaed?

i dont know how well they did it(nowere near as thorough as you) but a bodyshop did my golf bonnet 3 weeks later sanding marks were visable again


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## L200 Steve

gti mad man said:


> cool guide guys dnt shoot me down but have any sanding marks reapereaed?
> 
> i dont know how well they did it(nowere near as thorough as you) but a bodyshop did my golf bonnet 3 weeks later sanding marks were visable again


I haven't seen this one, so couldn't comment on the Fiesta, but on the other vehicles I've done with the Mirka kit I've not seen any signs of the sanding marks reappear.

The key to ensure this it seems is to ensure that the final sand is done thoroughly using the 4000 grit, to leave a finish after 4000 grit that is as perfect as is possible. By not leaving in anything that needs too much effort in the final polish stages ensures that the finish stays as it should.

A couple of the bodywork guys laughed when we said that we were going to use 4000 grit, and claimed it was a waste of time stage and that we shouldn't need anything finer that 2000 grit :wall:


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## rubbishboy

gti mad man said:


> cool guide guys dnt shoot me down but have any sanding marks reapereaed?
> 
> i dont know how well they did it(nowere near as thorough as you) but a bodyshop did my golf bonnet 3 weeks later sanding marks were visable again


Quite possibly a result of the polishing/compounding stage. The polish that they used could have masked or filled some of the sanding marks rather than removing them and now this has sunk into the paint a bit revealing the imperfections.


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## gti mad man

I assumed it was due to there technique/products i ended up having the bonnet repainted in the end lol


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## Epoch

The owner picked this car up a week or two ago, and i can official say she was smilling as much as me, even offered me money!!

It still looked the same as when we finished (after a Z Clear wash to remove some standing dust, as the car haddn't moved)

I have agreed as payment she lets me take it to a meet next year (if she still has it) to let people see it in the flesh.


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## Supreme Detailing

Mirka kit 

Could you tell me where you purchased yours from?

Sean


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## jake_b

great info there guys.. thanks..and awesome finish


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## deathlok

great write up


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## gmblack3

deathlok said:


> great write up


I agree!

I have been reading this thread more then a few times.

Any updates on the next car that will be done with the Mirka system?

I purchased some Abralon 4k discs the other day and should have some 2000 discs in hand soon. Here in the states they sell a airvantage sander with a 3/32 throw that should work great.


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## Epoch

Hi and thanks 

Next one is big, black & Bavarian

Just sorting the dates out now


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## gmblack3

Epoch said:


> Hi and thanks
> 
> Next one is big, black & Bavarian
> 
> Just sorting the dates out now


Thank you guys! I am sure you have been told this many times, but your threads are always world class!

I am going to guess a 7 series. :driver:

*Well done Boys you win erm. a Mars Duo:thumb:*


----------



## Leemack

Brilliant :thumb:

An old post that deserves to be resurrected


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## CliveP

Wow, yes I agree really worth resurrecting this post, what a transformation and detailed write-up.

Regards,
Clive.


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## caledonia

Showshine said:


> Brilliant :thumb:
> 
> An old post that deserves to be resurrected





CliveP said:


> Wow, yes I agree really worth resurrecting this post, what a transformation and detailed write-up.
> 
> Regards,
> Clive.


You could be a lot worst than read over Steves posts. No hype or fancy techniques. Just honest, no holes bard detailing. the way it should be. :thumb:


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## Epoch

Car is still about, it's now got L plates on for the freinds sort of nephew.

Still looks alright too


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## Guest

I'm not the only one who dig's up old threads then :lol:


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## CliveP

caledonia said:


> You could be a lot worst than read over Steves posts. No hype or fancy techniques. Just honest, no holes bard detailing. the way it should be. :thumb:


Absolutely Gordon, this style of detailing approach appeals to me more and more - raw and to the point! Fantastic!


----------



## gally

Wow!!!


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## SSB Ad

awesome just awesome


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## Mark_

Fantastic write up there!! :thumb: Does anyone know if there is a thread or guide for wet sanding by hand??


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## Guest

Wow - I can't quite believe that it's been four years since this thread was posted - I still remember it well :thumb:.


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## BigAshD

That is just amazing. Fantastic work.


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## luke86

Much improvement!


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## floopsy

Amazing result!


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## mattyh2013

Bloody fantastic :thumb:


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