# New PC time



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

Well following my video editing software thread it appears with a HD camcorder my computer really struggles to run and process the HD footage.

I currently have a MacBook from 2008. But it does start to struggle as I said.

I'm looking for a desktop to run the video editing.

with now being the time that you can get alot of computer for your money I'm unsure on what to get, which will cope with the demands of HD video editing! 

With windows you seem to get a lot for your money, is spending £1200 on a imac worth it?

What would you guys recommend? Mac/windows, and which ones would you suggest?

Many Thanks
Rich


----------



## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

We bought a 27" Quad Core iMac, and here's why...

Just try and buy an IPS screen (i.e. not a TN, which has bad colour accuracy and viewing angles) of this quality and size, and you'll be lucky to get it for a £1,000.

So, in essence, we got a 2.8ghz quad core computer with 4gb ram, 1tb hd, and 1gb graphics card with a wireless keyboard and mouse for about £400 (Apple refurb).

If you're doing HD video editing on a regular basis, you'll want, i) a large screen, ii) a decent graphics card.

Do the sums. A refurb 27" iMac (doesn't have to be quad core) is excellent value for money.

I've spent the last 24 hours just staring at ours. It's so bloomin gorgeous! (and HUGE).


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

£400 or did you mean £1400? Where can I find apple return?


----------



## M4D YN (Nov 24, 2007)

costco has an awesome mac pc AIO for like 99,, sumit :argie:


----------



## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

rich-hill said:


> £400 or did you mean £1400? Where can I find apple return?


What I mean is, the quality of the screen is unparalleled by anything under £1,000.

So, in essence you get all the other hardware for another £400 on top of that.

Refurb store (iMac section):
http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/imac


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

Aah I understand now. I already have a display. Was hoping to use my tv. 

HP have a intel i7 3.2 GHz for almost have the price of a mac intel i5 3.2GHz, that's all that baffles me at the moment


----------



## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

rich-hill said:


> Aah I understand now. I already have a display. Was hoping to use my tv.
> 
> HP have a intel i7 3.2 GHz for almost have the price of a mac intel i5 3.2GHz, that's all that baffles me at the moment


If you have a screen you're happy with, then save your money on a more powerful machine.

As for the price difference; make sure you're comparing like with like. Does HP come with an IPS screen, equivalent graphics card, nifty wireless keyboard and mouse, etc?

The cheapest 27" iMac is £1,169.00 at the refurb store.


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

Yeah I just saw that one. Thinking about it I think I would be happy using my tv as a monitor. If I connect it via HDMI. A mac mini would be ideal if they were powerful enough. Thats why I started looking at desktops


----------



## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

rich-hill said:


> Yeah I just saw that one. Thinking about it I think I would be happy using my tv as a monitor. If I connect it via HDMI. A mac mini would be ideal if they were powerful enough. Thats why I started looking at desktops


How old is your current computer?

You could potentially upgrade the graphics card and ram, and find that it's sufficient.


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

I have a MacBook from jan 2008 with 1 GB ram. I'm not home at the moment so unsure on spec


----------



## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

rich-hill said:


> I have a MacBook from jan 2008 with 1 GB ram. I'm not home at the moment so unsure on spec


Oh right.

You'll not be able to upgrade that, except for a bit more ram. But, you're running a weak integrated graphics card, so it's definitely going to struggle with HD video.

At a guess, you'll probably get £300 for that on ebay.

If you don't do too much work, you might get away with a 21.5" screen, but if you got for an iMac, I think you'd regret not adding a little to get the 27" one.


----------



## John757 (Jun 11, 2009)

Just bought an Asus G73JW notebook for £1380. 17" Screen (1920x1080 HD resolution), Intel I7 Quad Core 740QM. 8GB Ram at 1333mhz, 1TB HDD with a 7200RPM spin speed, Nvidia 460m GTX 1.5GB graphics card which can pump out 3D content to a 3D TV via HDMI. Really is a desktop PC replacement in notebook form. Very well made, good quality and a power house. Got it shipped over from New York from BH Photo Video.


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

No wonder you're struggling to do HD VE - 1GB is far from ideal.
Two options exist:

1) Upgrade the RAM to 4GB, and fit an SSD drive into it - the processor is powerful enough for 720p. If you're doing 1080p, then you would be needing something more suitable since it's chewing through 4x the data of 720p.

2) Sell the Macbook on here or eBay, and fund a refurb iMac - I don't subscribe to the 27" being mandatory, as the 21.5" has Full HD resolution as its area (1920x1080).

If editing is merely splicing footage together, then size of preview is immaterial, and the need for the 27" is reserved for image enhancement of the footage, if needed to white balance, etc two bits of footage shot on different days/location/etc.

Really it all depends on what level of editing you require, and whilst iMovie is fine, Final Cut Express would be the wisest choice.


Without turning this into a Mac vs PC war, Windows machines will be fine, but a Mac will be more productive, as was borne out in the recent Gadget show where they tested FCE and others to see which was the best overall software package - and it's not hard to guess which one 'won'.

Do you need an i7 or will an i5 with 8GB RAM do a better job for the same or less money? Hard one to call as RAM prices are dropping all the time, so the question then becomes can you wait for 12 months or more before being able to afford to max the RAM in the i7 iMac?
If going the i5 route with a stack of RAM, then buy the basic spec, and add the RAM yourself from Crucial or elsewhere.


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

It turns out that dad would like to stick to windows, he tried using my MacBook and it really confused him.

Who makes reliable desktops these days? Any brands to stay away from? It always use to be stay away from packard bell and compaq when I bought my last pc.
Would this be a good buy?

http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/medion-akoya-x7371-08027461-pdt.html

With quad processesor I'm guessing it's pretty quick?


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

iMac and a copy of Windows is all you need for both of you to be happy.
Install Windows under bootcamp, and then you can choose which OS to boot into.
My guess is it'll only be a matter of time before he uses Windows less and less, and becomes au fait with how OS X 'works'.


----------



## silverback (Jun 18, 2008)

rich-hill said:


> It turns out that dad would like to stick to windows, he tried using my MacBook and it really confused him.
> 
> Who makes reliable desktops these days? Any brands to stay away from? It always use to be stay away from packard bell and compaq when I bought my last pc.
> Would this be a good buy?
> ...


have you tried looking at the DELL website ?? i have had 2 pcs of them now and they have been rock solid and never let me down.also cheap in comparison to the likes of pc world etc.


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

PJS said:


> iMac and a copy of Windows is all you need for both of you to be happy.
> Install Windows under bootcamp, and then you can choose which OS to boot into.
> My guess is it'll only be a matter of time before he uses Windows less and less, and becomes au fait with how OS X 'works'.


I was thinking the same thing. But he says the iMac is too expensive. I've tried convincing otherwise with little success


----------



## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

+1 for Dell if you _must_ have a PC.

Although OSX is the most user friendly and intuitive OS around. Your dad just has to unlearn all the confusing, multi-step, patience-testing processes he needs to operate Windoze, and then he'll be fine.


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

rich-hill said:


> I was thinking the same thing. But he says the iMac is too expensive. I've tried convincing otherwise with little success


Who's buying this computer, you or him?
Show him the price they sell 2nd hand for on eBay, compared to their retail price (mactracker app will show RRP price) - and there's the aspect of valuing your time and the lesser hassles of AV & Malware to contend with.
So there's much more besides initial outlay and headline price which he's classically forgetting when comparing Apples with Lemons (or Pears if you're a cider drinker!).


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

He's buying not me. I will keep the case for Imac going then. 
Does Winows run on Mac run just as well?

If files are added to the mac in windows (images for instance) will they all so be avliable to be viewedwhen using mac OS?


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

tomah said:


> +1 for Dell if you _must_ have a PC.
> 
> Although OSX is the most user friendly and intuitive OS around. Your dad just has to unlearn all the confusing, multi-step, patience-testing processes he needs to operate Windoze, and then he'll be fine.


I will take him to an Apple store and leave him there for 2 days to learn all the new wonderful things!


----------



## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

rich-hill said:


> I will take him to an Apple store and leave him there for 2 days to learn all the new wonderful things!


Seriously good idea.

Take him up to the desk, and get one of the employees to attempt to persuade your dad on the simplicity of OSX vs Windows.

:thumb:


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Your father sounds like he's just stubborn and set in his ways.
Yes, if you add files to a folder in Windows, OS X can access them if need be.
Apple bothered to make the OS recognise and read/write FAT formatted drives, and read NTFS drives. There's freeware available that'll let you write to NTFS as well now.
Windows still doesn't accept another OS exists, so doesn't show any native OS X formatted drive connected.

So in a nutshell, OS X is the better OS to use, which you should already know from 1st hand experience with the your laptop.
Maybe if you get him to a store with the iMac on display, he can be shown and see how intuitive it is, especially with the multiple-touch mouse and gestures.

Software wise, FCE is the best one out there, as a recent Gadget Show episode demonstrated, and on pricing, don't overlook the refurb section of Apple's site - you could get a great machine for a nice discount.
Still comes with the same warranty as a brand new machine does.


----------



## jamest (Apr 8, 2008)

As many will know I am not an advocate of Apple, but tell your father not to be so stubborn. I know a few (older) people who are not really tech literate who have picked up OSX after Windows very quickly and enjoy it. They of course do have frustrations about certain things being different but get used to them and the new system will be come the norm.

As to what you should buy, well as you want to keep using your TV I would go with a Windows based PC personally rather than spending money on a screen you don't want or need. That is my opinion anyway, either decision you make won't be a bad one and neither will be disasterous.


----------



## Guest (Dec 6, 2010)

Thought about a Mesh, Rich?

http://www.meshcomputers.com/Default.aspx?PAGE=MAINPAGE_VII


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

Thanks all for your help. Which mac is best buy? With processors being duo or quad I keep getting a little confused. Would the entry level Imac at £999 be enough for HD video editing with relative ease. Or would getting the i5 processor be a better idea?


----------



## jamest (Apr 8, 2008)

From memory the i5 should be better.


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

Okay so if i can get Dad to spnd £1400 which of these would be the best buy?

iMac 27-inch 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 with ATI Radeon HD 4850 graphics with 512MB memory £1399
http://store.apple.com/uk/product/G0GF0B/A?mco=MTU0Mzg4OTg

iMac 27-inch 2.8GHz Intel Quad-Core i5 with better graphics ATI Radeon HD 5750 graphics with 1GB memory £1399
http://store.apple.com/uk/product/FC511B/A?mco=MTkwMzU2Njc

or buying new which would be
3.60GHz Intel Core i5 21.5 inch, ATI Radeon HD 5670 512MB (£1409)

For teh space we have a 21.5 i think would look better. But they don't seem to have the higher spec processors in the refurb shop


----------



## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

rich-hill said:


> Okay so if i can get Dad to spnd £1400 which of these would be the best buy?
> 
> iMac 27-inch 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 with ATI Radeon HD 4850 graphics with 512MB memory £1399
> http://store.apple.com/uk/product/G0GF0B/A?mco=MTU0Mzg4OTg
> ...


For the money, the 27 is better value. But, it's up to you.

We bought the i5 with the Radeon 5750. I don't have lab tests to verify, but I assumed with software like After Effects, the bigger graphics card would be more efficient than the marginally better processor.

I'd love to see tests on this, though.

For most CPU intensive tasks, I guess the i7 will be better.


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

tomah said:


> For the money, the 27 is better value. But, it's up to you.
> 
> We bought the i5 with the Radeon 5750. I don't have lab tests to verify, but I assumed with software like After Effects, the bigger graphics card would be more efficient than the marginally better processor.
> 
> ...


That's what i was wondering - slower processor with bigger/faster graphics card vs faster processor with slower graphics


----------



## jamest (Apr 8, 2008)

Don't get confused with thinking graphics card will improve performance of video, it won't. They are for 3D performance.

For HD video editing you want a fast processor and a lot of RAM.

512MB of RAM is a joke.


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

the 512 was the memory of the graphics card, the computer itself has 4GB RAM


----------



## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

I've been doing a bit more research.

Unless you play games, you're better off with the i7 it seems.

Do your own research, though. Whatever resource hungry software you use, check to see if it's graphic or processor intensive.


----------



## jamest (Apr 8, 2008)

rich-hill said:


> the 512 was the memory of the graphics card, the computer itself has 4GB RAM


Oh right, didn't read that properly, in which case, take your pick.

i5 over the old quads, i7 over the i5. Graphics card doesn't matter for what you will be doing, it's pretty much redundant.


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

http://www.barefeats.com/wst10c3.html
http://www.barefeats.com/imac10v.html
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=104065


----------



## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

I just had another look.

The £1,399 i7 that's on offer in the refurb store; is that a 2009 version?


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

tomah said:


> I just had another look.
> 
> The £1,399 i7 that's on offer in the refurb store; is that a 2009 version?


Im not sure, but it looks like abit of a bargin compared to new.
Were they putting Intel i processors into the mac in 2009?


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

PJS said:


> http://www.barefeats.com/wst10c3.html
> http://www.barefeats.com/imac10v.html
> http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=104065


Thanks for the results, it appears getting the i7 processor with the lesser graphics card is the better option from the apple refurb store then


----------



## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

rich-hill said:


> Thanks for the results, it appears getting the i7 processor with the lesser graphics card is the better option from the apple refurb store then


I think that's a wise choice.

There were _a lot_ of yellow screen issues with it, but I would assume current refurb models should be safe.

After this further research, you've made me wonder if I should get mine exchanged...


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

A refurb can be any of the following that Apple can't legally resell at RRP.

1) Customer 14 day return
2) Replaced/refunded unit repaired & tested
3) Customer custom build order cancellation
4) Ex-display from resellers/Apple Stores

Irrespective, full 12 month warranty and all discs/etc are included, so a great way to save some money if you don't qualify for eduction discount.

Another reason for considering Apple over Windows PCs is their enviable track record (PC industry awards) for reliability and customer support, and residual value many years later, which offsets any premium paid initially.
Most people overlook those, and just focus on the price.


----------



## jamest (Apr 8, 2008)

PJS said:


> Another reason for considering Apple over *many* Windows *based* PCs is their enviable track record (PC industry awards) for reliability and customer support, and residual value many years later, which offsets any premium paid initially.


EFA :thumb:
Microsoft don't make/sell PC's.


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

tomah said:


> I think that's a wise choice.
> 
> There were _a lot_ of yellow screen issues with it, but I would assume current refurb models should be safe.
> 
> After this further research, you've made me wonder if I should get mine exchanged...


thats always the danger of buying a new computer then carry on looking at ones afterwards.

With the refurb having yellow screen issues, as it still has a 12 month warrenty it can always go straight back.


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

tomah said:


> I just had another look.
> 
> The £1,399 i7 that's on offer in the refurb store; is that a 2009 version?


After looking again im not sure which year it is. Is there an easy way of telling?


----------



## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

If you are looking to buy Apple then take a good look at HotUKDeals. Now that many other companies sell Apple computers you can often use 5% discount codes etc which can result in a nice saving with you spending so much.

(I've just saved £100 on an iPad doing this)


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

rich-hill said:


> After looking again im not sure which year it is. Is there an easy way of telling?


It's previous generation i7 - look at the current iMac 27" and you'll see the i7 is 2.93 GHz with the 5xxx ATi graphics chip.
A good saving for not much drop in absolute performance.


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

PJS said:


> It's previous generation i7 - look at the current iMac 27" and you'll see the i7 is 2.93 GHz with the 5xxx ATi graphics chip.
> A good saving for not much drop in absolute performance.


So im correct in thinking that the refurb i7 will be faster than a new i5?


----------



## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Yep, with the apps that can take advantage of the extra real & virtual cores in the i7 chip.


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

Thanks PJS, you have been very helpful


----------



## silverback (Jun 18, 2008)

How much for "refurbed" computer:doublesho for that money couldnt you get a very powerful pc to do the same and have none of the mac downsides ?


----------



## rich-hill (May 13, 2008)

I havent had any downsides with my macbook


----------



## jamest (Apr 8, 2008)

rich-hill said:


> I havent had any downsides with my macbook


Everyone has different requirments from their computers so downsides for one person will not come in to play for a lot of others.


----------



## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

So true - some people love a PC, some people love Macs. Some really don't get on with one or the other. Doesn't mean one is 'better' than the other.

What suits each person is whats important.


----------



## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

I like the look of Macs and would like one but for sensible money all the ones Ive seen arent a patch on my Acer.
Vista 32,4gb ram,Nvidia GTS 250 gfx,2x 600GB Western Digital Caviars,AMD Phenom Quad,HDMI output,dvd with lightscribe a blu ray drive (dont have any blu ray films though,just use it as a second optical media drive for playing games or burning discs while the other drive is in use.) and a multi mem card reader.
Had it 2 years and its been no problem.Nothing I havent been able to sort anyway.
Only thing Id like to upgrade is to get the faster Phenom CPU and a surround sound card.


----------



## jamest (Apr 8, 2008)

With Vista 32-bit you are only going to be using at most 3.5GB of your RAM, best to upgrade to 7 64-bit. Onboard sound should support up to 7.1 (most do).


----------



## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

jamest said:


> With Vista 32-bit you are only going to be using at most 3.5GB of your RAM, best to upgrade to 7 64-bit. Onboard sound should support up to 7.1 (most do).


Exactly.It came with 4gb and Im happy.I did consider vista 64 but Ive heard its abit picky.


----------

