# Car ideas after the Type R Ep3



## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Currently drive a cosmic grey Premier edition Ep3 , Stunning car and brilliant to drive. Just hit 100,000 miles and FSH Including valve clearance checks and so on.

Had it 16 months and like to change every 1 1/2 years - 2 years so starting to think of different cars to try. This car in all honesty has been a dream. No issues no oil use or leaks complete hassle free. Just regular services and Cleaned.

Cars I've been thinking of around 4-6k budget

Astra vxr or Mk4 Gsi if I could find a mint condition one ( Arden Blue ) 
Golf Gti 
focus St-2

Never drove any apart from owning a Astra Coupe Se2 which was a great car just lack of power.

Any input or reccomendations Welcome

Here's the Civic


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I take it you're looking for a hot hatch? 

A mint MK4 GSI is a very rare thing these days. I had one brand new in 2003. They are much better than people think and have aged well.

What about a Mazda 3 MPS? You'll get a nice one for less than £5000. The only thing is the big road tax. They are still as fast as most of the very latest hot hatches. 

There's some nice cars with good spec on Autotrader.


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

I guess I have a soft spot for a hot hatch. Love the Gsi just never found one id buy as of yet. I Agree great cars and over looked sometimes 

Never owned a Mazda either so I will have a look at the Mazda 3 thank you


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## rob267 (Nov 27, 2015)

Seat leon cupra r mk1. I have one myself. Lots of fun to be had with not alot of money. 
You could also maybe pick up a mk2 cupra also for close to the money you have.😀

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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

Interesting thread. I've got on fn2. But drove a mint mk4 astra gsi with a few subtle mods for 6 years. Its been 2 and a half years since I owned the gsi, but now I'm getting the regret selling it type feeling. Tbh the chassis isn't great on the gsi if you like to drive fast - I lowered mine 40mm or so on coilovers, it became pretty good then. You feel like you sit low to the ground too due to the shape of the car. The gear change could be better. The steering feel is pretty non existent, driving on ice or dry tarmac feel pretty similar, plus when your pressing on through some corners you could swear that the steering column is made of rubber, and that your having to use more lock than you think you need, but only when pressing on. At this age, a lot of them smoke due to turbo, valve stem seal issues. 
That's most the negatives out the way. I've gotta say I loved mine once I'd done a few mods. I changed the back box to a scorpion back box, and I had a k and n panel filter with a few holes in the airbox (placed to try to avoid engine heat). I really miss the sound of driving a turbo car,particularly doing really mundane driving, like following traffic. VTEC doesn't feel special at all when following traffic, there's no drama, its as if your driving a normal civic until you get to wind it up. Whenever I parked my gsi up, I had to take a few glances over my shoulder, just as I enjoyed looking at it. I really liked the styling of the gsi. Some people criticise the spoiler for blocking your view, but its things like that that make driving a hot hatch feel exciting. Its kinda cool seeing it there in your mirror, I think. 
Type-r's are precision tools, hot vauxhalls are lump hammers. 
Anyway, how much might you ask for the ep3?
I've always wanted one, the timings probably not right though I guess


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

You might just find a reasonable BMW 130i. 

That's a car you could buy, run for a few years, then get every penny of your money back. The values of them will soon go up.


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## Alfieharley1 (Jun 8, 2014)

Renault Megane 230 F1 becoming rare and great fun


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Never been keen on the cupras so unsure. Nice looking just never appealed for some reason. 

The Astra I had was spot on just no power so I guess I couldn't really test tne steering and handling out like a gsi. Spotted one the other day for 5800 with only 35k on the clock but sold a few hours later was gutted. Also like the 888 mk4 coupe but again like rocking horse Droppings. Never owned a turbo'd car but work with turbo'd engines and test them most days so happy to rebuild the turbo and head to sort minor issues if it come to it. 

Not keen on renaults as a rule but the meganes are a quick machine.

BMW 1 series I like , love the 3.5 what a beast just out of my price range. I'll look at the 3.0litres thank you.

I would want around 4500 for mine at the lowest really. Being a premier , low miles , history and so on. I had it off a mature mate who's in his 50s and took good car of it for years before I had it so I know it well.


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

Spike85 said:


> Never been keen on the cupras so unsure. Nice looking just never appealed for some reason.
> 
> The Astra I had was spot on just no power so I guess I couldn't really test tne steering and handling out like a gsi. Spotted one the other day for 5800 with only 35k on the clock but sold a few hours later was gutted. Also like the 888 mk4 coupe but again like rocking horse Droppings. Never owned a turbo'd car but work with turbo'd engines and test them most days so happy to rebuild the turbo and head to sort minor issues if it come to it.
> 
> ...


Didn't realise it was a premier. I saw the pre face lift rear lights, and didn't look to close at the rest. Did you post a while back and say you lived in Telford? I work in Telford. I'd love to take it off your hands but I've just spent 4k on double glazing :lol:
When I had my gsi, which was on the standard map as far as I know, a friend had an s2000 and we compared there performance the one evening a few times, and they were pretty much neck a neck. Not really quite what I expected, as he's 40 bhp up, and I think he had 6 gears to my five. Maybe just maybe he was out of vtec a few times.
The same friend has an astra vxr now and is really happy with it


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Yeah I'm in telford bud, also swopped the lights as the new ones look terrible. Alloys all been powder coated 

Nice n1 back box 
S2000 air filter and tewiga intake 
Poly bushed front end and rear Arb
Roll bars removed cleaned and powder coated 
Genuine Skunk 2 gear knob 

Just suttle mods really. 

If I can find a gsi in mint condition I will have to get it. 

Otherwise a few good cars as mentioned I'm toying with.


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

Spike85 said:


> Yeah I'm in telford bud, also swopped the lights as the new ones look terrible. Alloys all been powder coated
> 
> Nice n1 back box
> S2000 air filter and tewiga intake
> ...


I bet on the right road, at the right moment, thats a lot of fun with those mods!
Going back to those other two cars you mentioned, the golf gti, and focus st.
I've looked briefly at the gti's before, but find the looks so boring, IMO. The newer ones look loads better! Particularly don't like the older ones where the rear (maybe front too) bumper was only half painted. Don't like the tartan interior either on some of them.
I've driven a few focus st's. Guess I like everything except for the fuel economy, interior looks cheap and that they look a bit dreary outside imo (pre facelift).


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Yeah it feels nice to drive abit harsh sometimes on rough roads but worth it when there's a good road ahead.

Think I'll have to drive an St to either get it out. I like the golf looks but always like them since my MK2 GTI. The new Gti-R looks a beast 

I'll have to take you for a spin in it one day. 

So many decisions


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

That would be interesting, I'm a s***e passenger though :lol:
I'd like to own a golf R at some point if that's the one you mean, they just seem excellent at everything. Vw have just set the new fwd nurburgring record in a golf club sport s, kinda surprised they didnt use the golf R, and tweak it a little here n there


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Yeah I'm not the best passenger either since I was a passenger in a bad crash years ago. I'm a sensible driver anyway or try my best to be.

Yeah that's the gold I'm on about.

I've been looking up tne focus st3's can get a low mileage one for around £5500 so have dropped in price. 

130i bmws look like a good motor also.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

turbosnoop said:


> That would be interesting, I'm a s***e passenger though :lol:
> I'd like to own a golf R at some point if that's the one you mean, they just seem excellent at everything. Vw have just set the new fwd nurburgring record in a golf club sport s, kinda surprised they didnt use the golf R, and tweak it a little here n there


The Clubsport is a stripped out track car with track tyres. Weight was a key issue..


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

Kerr said:


> The Clubsport is a stripped out track car with track tyres. Weight was a key issue..


I knew it had no rear seats iirc. Didn't know anything about track tyres. I remember reading it had a manual box as the weight saving made it better than a dsg box. Just thought if they'd started with about 300 bhp and 4wd, and then applied the extra engineering/tuning and stripping back they could make it round the track in that time , for a whole load less effort (with a heavier car). Actually I think the real reason they used a club sport was for the fact that nobodys as bothered about 4wd lap times, as the hype has always been over the fwd record. A golf R does the nurburgring in 8:14 Google tells me. Add track tyres and I would think 7:49 wouldn't be unachievable given some minor fettling.I guess a fwd car lapping in that time makes headlines, a 4wd one doesn't.
Sorry for going off topic op


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

No prob at all, it's all car talk 

They did some comparisons against the new type R but not sure how they can with one Being 4wd and launch control against a FWD Car.

Love tne new Type R's and didn't mind the version after mine but it's not had tne best of reviews being heavier and the same power plus the rear axle is torsion bar instead of independent suspension. Other wise I would have considered one


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Id be looking at a 130i or a really nice 330Ci, must admit to finding rwd so much more fun than fwd


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

As an outsider, how about a Jag STR? You'd get a good one for £6k and they're appreciating now so you could profit in a couple of years. 

I love mine, never thought I'd own a supercharged V8


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Cheers Andy 

I owned the 328ci BMW and it was a fantastic drive but very trouble sum when it come to sensors. Are tne 1 series plagued with a similar situation


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

I think the jag in all honesty may be for when I'm a little older, no offence to anyone I just see them more as a middle aged mans car who's done well for himself. I like them no doubt but haven't got the hot hatches out my system yet. 
Being 31 this year I'll have to settle down soon and getting married this year I'm sure it will soon happen 

But for now I want to keep a smile on my face when I want a little Play


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Spike85 said:


> I think the jag in all honesty may be for when I'm a little older, no offence to anyone I just see them more as a middle aged mans car who's done well for himself. I like them no doubt but haven't got the hot hatches out my system yet.
> Being 31 this year I'll have to settle down soon and getting married this year I'm sure it will soon happen
> 
> But for now I want to keep a smile on my face when I want a little Play


I'm like a year older than you 

Trust me, the R line of Jags are absolutely not for the grey haired, it'll eat almost anything in the traffic light GP :lol:


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Oops sorry mate 

Yeah I've been to see Andys and its stunning and the sound is amazing just don't think it's me just yet. Work with a few young lads with Clio's so I'm sure i'd get some old man Stick

Just wish the Fn2 had better reviews as this would have been a great option. Being the same power and heavier and torsion bar rear suspension has just put me off a little. Shame as I love the shape


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Spike85 said:


> Oops sorry mate
> 
> Yeah I've been to see Andys and its stunning and the sound is amazing just don't think it's me just yet. Work with a few young lads with Clio's so I'm sure i'd get some old man Stick
> 
> Just wish the Fn2 had better reviews as this would have been a great option. Being the same power and heavier and torsion bar rear suspension has just put me off a little. Shame as I love the shape


Integra might be a good bet if you like your Honda's?


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

millns84 said:


> Integra might be a good bet if you like your Honda's?


I would love a DC5 but the fine examples are Between 8-10k a little over budget but stunning motors


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

turbosnoop said:


> I knew it had no rear seats iirc. Didn't know anything about track tyres. I remember reading it had a manual box as the weight saving made it better than a dsg box. Just thought if they'd started with about 300 bhp and 4wd, and then applied the extra engineering/tuning and stripping back they could make it round the track in that time , for a whole load less effort (with a heavier car). Actually I think the real reason they used a club sport was for the fact that nobodys as bothered about 4wd lap times, as the hype has always been over the fwd record. A golf R does the nurburgring in 8:14 Google tells me. Add track tyres and I would think 7:49 wouldn't be unachievable given some minor fettling.I guess a fwd car lapping in that time makes headlines, a 4wd one doesn't.
> Sorry for going off topic op


25 seconds is a huge gap. I'm not fully upto speed about the Clubsport S, but I know it does run track tyres(or it did during this test) and is a good bit lighter than the Golf R. It's also quite a few grand more. There must be a little more to the fact it costs £4-5k more for 10bhp extra, but no expensive 4wd system.

Most of the fastest FWD times have only been done when in the hands of the manufacturer, never at a magazine test. There is a whole host of FWD cars listed as lapping the Nurburgring faster than some serious cars. That doesn't happen when on independent head to head tests.

Honda have never let slip spec of the car they used, but there was a hint it wasn't exactly a road car. Same with Seat it turned out their car was running a lot of parts not available on the road car. They later added the option of additional parts.

Too much focus is put on Nurburgring and it means too much for manufacturers to get fast lap times. I feel there's a lot of cheating going on.


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

Spike85 said:


> No prob at all, it's all car talk
> 
> They did some comparisons against the new type R but not sure how they can with one Being 4wd and launch control against a FWD Car.
> 
> Love tne new Type R's and didn't mind the version after mine but it's not had tne best of reviews being heavier and the same power plus the rear axle is torsion bar instead of independent suspension. Other wise I would have considered one


Well as I say I've got an fn2, the model after the ep3. Before that I owned a twingo 133, which I bought on the strength of the reviews (see jez clarksons review on YouTube). It was such a let down. I didn't think it did anything well tbh. I'd always wanted a red fn2 since they came out I guess. Clarkson gave them a really bad review, but I thought would Honda really make a bad type-r??? I bought one anyway, and I think they're great. They are supposed to make 198 bhp but if you Google it, they often make more than they should. Around 207-210 bhp or so isn't unusual. I think I've read they are geared more towards acceleration than the ep3 also. So when you think about it, more weight, but more power and more aggressive gearing.

The rear beam is torsion bar, but so are all of the renaultsport hatches iirc. They handle great, but due to being so stiff they struggle a little at lower speed stuff, as they jump and shuffle around, this can throw you wide, and feel a little understeery when pushed. But as soon as you build speed they settle down, turn in is very precise and there's hardly any bodyroll. In fact when I'm pushing on at higher speed it feels like the rear will give way before the front end. I'm glad Clarkson and a few others slagged them off as otherwise mine would have cost a couple of grand extra than what it did :lol:


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

That's the sort of thing I want to read with the FN2's. I wanted one before the Ep3 but because this came up and I knew the history I had to take it. 

I've read the 2009 models had some of the niggles rectified like the roof/window seal replaced to stop the rusting and a few other little issues. I may just have to have a go in one to see what I think. Love the red and championship white ones.


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

Spike85 said:


> That's the sort of thing I want to read with the FN2's. I wanted one before the Ep3 but because this came up and I knew the history I had to take it.
> 
> I've read the 2009 models had some of the niggles rectified like the roof/window seal replaced to stop the rusting and a few other little issues. I may just have to have a go in one to see what I think. Love the red and championship white ones.


Maybe one day we should check each others cars out. At some point an LSD was standard, can't remember the year, might be 09 or 10. I had my roof repainted and a new seal under corrosion warranty from Honda, loads of fn2's have been redone by Honda themselves. You just have to approach them. 
The stig crowned the fn2 the best hot hatch , in a group test of hot hatches, in around 2007, for top gear magazine. So a journalist making an entertainment programme slags it off, while their resident racing driver says its the best hot hatch, go figure


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Sounds like a date 

I'll have to do some thinking. I'm impressed with 130i performance and reviews. Would be a tough choice as I love Hondas


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

What sort of money are they bud? I had a 1 series diesel as a courtesy car once, I liked it! Different cuppa tea to a type r though obviously


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

Nice EP3 spike

I saw your thread earlier on TRO.

I like the look of your EP3, as I said last week in your other thread, just the sort of thing I am looking for to tuck away in the garage and get out at the weekend.

I had a 05 EP3 and when I drove the FN2 I thought it was far more enjoyable to drive than my older one.
Felt better put together, VTEC engages at lower revs, engine /exhaust note is better too.

09 onwards LSD was available yes turbo snoop.
And I had a Twingo 133 too. Best standard engine note of any warm/hot hatch I reckon (with bung removed), but like you I was glad to see the back of it after 10 months.

Good luck choosing your next hot hatch spike


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

Kerr said:


> 25 seconds is a huge gap. I'm not fully upto speed about the Clubsport S, but I know it does run track tyres(or it did during this test) and is a good bit lighter than the Golf R. It's also quite a few grand more. There must be a little more to the fact it costs £4-5k more for 10bhp extra, but no expensive 4wd system.
> 
> Most of the fastest FWD times have only been done when in the hands of the manufacturer, never at a magazine test. There is a whole host of FWD cars listed as lapping the Nurburgring faster than some serious cars. That doesn't happen when on independent head to head tests.
> 
> ...


It is a huge gap I agree. But over 8 mins or so, its about 3 seconds per minute, track tyres and minor fettling could get you that. Remapping a production car is minimal effort , as once its done, you just load it to the cars on the production line. Probably no need to take the seats out tbh, or any of the bespoke stuff they did to the club sport s. 
The last article I read on the ctr basically said, there was a cage fitted, and things removed, like the stereo to offset the weight of the cage. Is that 100% truthful? I don't know. Id like to think so. Honda seem a company who like to achieve through engineering excellence , I think that's fair to say. Now VW.... What was that in the press again about their emissions?
The problem with cheating is that, once one cheats, it might be very hard to beat them, without cheating too, the snowball starts there....


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

There around the 6k mark Mate give or take depending on miles and history I guess.

Thanks for the comments James. That's all I really use it for at the moment is a weekend car as it's fantastic fun. I think I'll try the FN2 and 130i and see where I sit. Unless a mint Gsi comes up in tne mean time but unlikely


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

Mazda 3 mps.

No more to be said


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## LSherratt (Dec 27, 2011)

I used to own a 57 plate Astra VXR in Arden blue with black 19" alloys. Looked beautiful and turned heads everywhere. Really nice inside and with a RARB it handled much better than the reviews. Was good fun but I prefer my cheaper 1999 Subaru Impreza which could be a curve ball for you.

You could get a nice original Impreza Turbo 2000 for £4K. Prices are going up now for a nice looked after one. They are A LOT of fun and have such a good raw driving feel.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

My polo 9n3 gti was a great little car

Can get a fairly decent one for 5k, or a shed for cheap

1.8t that a simple remap will take to more power than a standard golf gti, comfort, a nicer drive and better handling imo

Quicker than an ep3 too, I've tried and tested that lol

I was going to get an ep3 but they really didn't compare to the gti

Oh and don't listen to the online specs, complete crap. Every site shows the 0-60 as something like 8!seconds, it's definitely not. Timed and tried


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

The old Subarus are stunning to look at with a few nice mods and sound brilliant. Just never been a fan of the interiors. Looked at the Mazda 3 yesterday a lot of car for the money and great performance but think I would own tne 130i before the Mazda. 

I'm going to test drive a few cars over the not few weeks see if I get on with them 

130i
FN2


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Polo Gti is also a nice car probly a little small for what I want having a small family. I see it like a small golf. VW have always been good quality cars in my opinion and a safe bet but boring at the same time as mentioned.


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## LSherratt (Dec 27, 2011)

You may find that you favour the driving experience and feel over the interior. You should try some more suggests just to see, you know. A car that you may think is boring or dull inside may not even come into the equation once you've driven one. A lot of good suggestions here but your mind already seems fairly set.


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Yeah I certainly wouldn't throw away the idea until I've had a go. The two mentioned fit the bill at the moment but anything could happen. I'd happily test 20 car types to get them ticked off either way. 

Thank you


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## Talidan (Sep 2, 2014)

Here's my 2p worth iv always owned hondas b series normally around 9 now last was a teg type r before that ep3, and all my mates banging on about how good VW are so one night I had a impulse buy on a mk5 gti don't knock it until you try it and all that.

So first things they feel very distant, steering has a very vague feeling to it and it feels like a nose heavy car, brakes are very over servo'd and don't get me started on understeer no matter how good tyres you put on them, also went for a drive in my mates editon 30 stage 1 295bhp and same story there just fast in a streight line and that's about it also his throttle feel felt nicer because of the linear throttle map.

Test drove a vxr and 9n3 gti k300 hybrid 260bhp before that and same story there astras streight line performance is miles better than golf and power delivery is more fun, but there just not a patch on the integra type r for feel of the road and they seem to inspire confidence where as in the golf your thinking F*** sake I might understeer in to the nearest wall better slow down.

If you want a fast streight line car any modern hatch with a map will be sufficient, Needles to say my golf is on eBay at the moment 99p starting I'll seven take a loss it's that bad, m3 or ek9 next for me I think.

Whoever stuck subaru in to the mix that would be my choice right there !

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Thanks for the input mate much appreciated. 

Always find it hard decided on cars i will have to ring around and get some test drives booked. Not going to rush the decision but I'd be keen to stay with Honda and tne Fn2 looks promising. But I'll get the test drives booked and report back once I've done them all that I'm interested in.

It's going to be September time onwards realistically possibly early next year so I have plenty of time to try and test as many cars as possible


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## pt1 (Feb 8, 2014)

Spike85 said:


> Oops sorry mate
> 
> Yeah I've been to see Andys and its stunning and the sound is amazing just don't think it's me just yet. Work with a few young lads with Clio's so I'm sure i'd get some old man Stick
> 
> Just wish the Fn2 had better reviews as this would have been a great option. Being the same power and heavier and torsion bar rear suspension has just put me off a little. Shame as I love the shape


I went from a ep3 to a fn2 and find the fn2 a better car.the ep3 felt more frantic but that's about it.the fn2 has much better steering,so is more enjoyable to drive fast on a good twisty road and feels more planted and grippy,at road speeds anyway,could be different on a track


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## Nick-ST (Mar 4, 2013)

Get yourself a focus ST you wont regret it!


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Cheers for the heads up guys, will be getting the wedding out the way in August then it will be a serious car hunt time. So hoping to get a few cars test driven to get an idea of what I really want a need. 

So many great cars and opinions it opens a whole can of worms but it's just what I wanted so thank you


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## Kyle 86 (Jun 15, 2013)

Out of your suggested options i would keep the Ep3 its a much better car than all of your suggestions. If i had to choose i would say a ST2 because the 5 pot turbo engine is a peach

For another 2k you could get a nice audi S3

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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

I agree the Ep3 is a cracking motor but I always like to change every few years to keep me interested. 

ST2 great car and plan to test drive one 

Audi may be a tad to expensive, But thanks for the idea. If money wasn't a real option I would honestly keep the ep3 garaged up for sunny days only as its so much fun but needs must and I need a change. Just not yet


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## B8sy86 (Jan 10, 2015)

Alfieharley1 said:


> Renault Megane 230 F1 becoming rare and great fun


I own one of these, it's got its gremlins but the engines are reliable, they sound crap but they go like stink, on a country road or track they are amazing machines that punch well above their weight. Top gear test track times had it go round the track quicker than an e46 m3 and I've always had huge respect for those m3's. Be careful if purchasing one as they are now at an age where engine mounts and swivel hub bearings need replacing


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Thanks for the heads up but I'm not a Renault fan and never have been. Always good the electrics shocking on some earlier cars I had and the build quality shocking and cheap.

Newer models are more than likely a lot better but for the money I believe there's better cars


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

You'd get a minter of a late Celica T-Sport, not dissimilar to the Type R - I loved mine and found it be be huge fun, very well bit (if not a little tinny due to its lightness), very economical - was stupid to sell it really


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

They are nice motors but don't think it's what I'm after. Hopefully able to test drive a Vxr and 130i this weekend so that will be two off the list I can tick off and make some notes on for future reference


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

If you like the EP3, then a DC2 or Accord Type R is a worthy upgrade. Admittedly they will be older than your EP3, but they both give much more of a driving experience than the EP3.

Many of the ATR owners came from EP3s and never looked back. A chap i know has gone from an ATR to Focus ST and says they are very similar performance and handling wise, although personally i prefer the H badge


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## Talidan (Sep 2, 2014)

That's a good shout shiny ATR and ek9 are the only type R I haven't owned but they are supposed to be brilliant cars tad faster than a ep3 and better handling just watch out for bulkhead rot and have a look at the floor pans if there good and it's had belts with balance shaft done snap it up also for a peice of mind keep a eye on crank bolt they tend to unwind them self's then game over.

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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Aye, there are still some good ATR's about, but quite a few dogs to avoid.

Also gives me an excuse to post up a picture of mine


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Very nice indeed. Stunning cars just looking for a more modern car I think. Which is where the slightly dated ep3 interior falls down now compared to the fn2 and many others


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

I think your destined to get an fn2  :wave: :thumb:


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

I'm certainly thinking about it , have been offerd a swop already for a fn2 but it wasn't in good condition and miles were really high. Shame but I'm sure one will come along eventually 

I haven't advertised the car yet just putting feelers out really. Still want to test drive a few cars and sat I'm driving a few cars so will no more then. Including a Vxr and 130i so at least I can compare them to a fn2.


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## insanejim69 (Nov 13, 2011)

Having owned a 2005 (55 plate) Astra VXR many years ago, they are a very good car, or should I say can be !! 

In standard form they are very old school, the Turbo kicks in and your off, then their is a slight mid range hesitation (maybe lasts 0.1 of a second, but you feel it) then it pulls hard again to the redline. Handling is ok actually, you just need to learn to moderate the throttle for best results. 

My car eventually was modified (only slightly), firstly I fitted a Courtenay Motorsport Enlarged Intake Plenum (Tophat) which seems to get rid of that weird mid range hesitation slightly. Then I fitted a remus exhaust system. Net was some Eibach proline springs, a whiteline rear anti roll bar and then a Dreamscience stage 2 map. Which eventually gave 296BHP and 364lb/ft of torque, plus some nice Ferrodo uprated pads All of the above really made the car so much better the handling was improved greatly. My only regret now I have my Corsa Nurburgring edition is not getting a LSD for the Astra., as IMO the LSD in the Corsa Burg is the biggest noticable difference. Accelerate hard mid corner and there is no understeer, it just grips and goes. The harder you seem to accelerate the more the nose gets tighter to the corner. 

Basically my point is the Astra VXR is a good car, but its more the old school Turbo thrill. In order to give the car the handling it deserves and needs you need to spend some extra ££ on it. 

James


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Thanks for a really Good review. 

Didn't no the corsas came with a lsd, I was also surprised at how much in price they had dropped recently. nice looking motors


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## insanejim69 (Nov 13, 2011)

Yeah the Corsa Nurburgring Edition had a Mechanical LSD, Brembo Brakes, Bilstein B12 Inverted Dampers and Stiffer Springs, Forged alloys and a new turbo making 205bhp all as standard. Def nothing like a standard Corsa VXR  (I used to also own a standard Corsa VXR)

James


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## JMorty (Apr 25, 2011)

I'm going to go a different route here...

Why not wind some extra power our of yours and do some chassis upgrades for the cost of upgrading to another car?

Keep the car you love but a whole new feel? 

Just an idea.

Also, MK5 GTi's are great. Another reliable engine like the K20.


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Corsas sounds like a little beast. 

I could put money into mine but it will still be the same car. Proberly not to drive as the upgrades Would make a difference. Ideally I wanted to keep the ep3 near standard as I believe they'll go up in value in a few years time when most have been smashed or ruined. So as a good example i thought it would hold more value the way it is.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Spike85 said:


> Corsas sounds like a little beast.
> 
> I could put money into mine but it will still be the same car. Proberly not to drive as the upgrades Would make a difference. Ideally I wanted to keep the ep3 near standard as I believe they'll go up in value in a few years time when most have been smashed or ruined. So as a good example i thought it would hold more value the way it is.


Don't hold your breath on that though. 4Q 2015 and there were 749 registered ATRs on the road and they are still silly cheap with the best examples struggling to get more than £3k. The CTR was made for a mass market and there are still 14k of them about.


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

No I certainly wouldnnt hold onto praying it goes up but there getting Harder to come by in decent un abused condition. This is why I want a change car prices are becoming cheap and you can get a lot of car for £5000 nowadays


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Well a little update. My car has had an offer from a good friend of mine as he's wanted ot off me for a long time. He knows what I paid and has accepted what I wanted. August time it will be tho due to getting my wedding out the way. Glad it's staying local as he's asked me to keep up the detailing work on it for him. 

Test Drove an Fn2 the other day and really enjoyed it. More than expected. Very nice interior far better than the Ep3 and the seats are more comfy. 
Power wise it's hard to tell between the two I would say the Ep3 just feels a little more ruthless. Fn2 has a different sound as is smoother. This is a car I would 100% consider as I love Hondas and type R's 

Also drove the 130i and the power was awesome. Loads of torque. Nice smooth drive and felt like a quality car. Didn't have the excitement the Type R did but i sort of expected that before I drove it. Again a really nice car just depends if I can find one in good condition and in budget closer to the time. 

Few more cars still to try before Aug. Vxr - golf Gti - MPs 3 and a few others


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

Glad you enjoyed the fn2. There not perfect but a load better than a lot of reviews would have you believe.


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Yeah I was really hoping they would be good as I really like the looks. Like the sat nav and a few other added extras. Would certainly be happy owning one. Got a massive check sheet for them off a lad on type r owners website which includes recalls and common issues and things to look for should I purchase one


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

I got mine from a Honda dealer in Crewe. It had the roof rust issue, but after the test drive , I had to have it, I was like a kid in a sweet shop. I had a twingo 133 I was fed up with at the time. I bought it, then when I'd come to my senses and properly looked at the roof, I took it back, and it all got sorted. A little bit backwards I guess. 
I've walked away from a fair few cars, but I had to have this fn2. 

I found third gear sometimes hit a notch half way in. But after a while i found because the clutch bit low down, it was due to my timing with the clutch pedal. There's some adjustment at the pedal which helps.

My rear shocks can be noisy too, there's a tsb on it.

They do have their niggles


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Here's a list I got for them. It did have pictures

Engine & Drivetrain:
Waterpump and belts seem ok?
Check oil (& cap), coolant, other fluids for levels/condition
Which oil is in the car ran on and is the oil level ok? Shows it's kept an eye on. 5w/40 fully synth is ideal
Blue smoke at the back? Any smoke up front?
VTEC engages properly?
Noises; tappets and lifters etc. Not to worry too much, could just need valve clearances setting. Bartering point!
Gearbox, notchy/crunchy?
3rd gear works ok? No jumping out of any gear?
Clutch feels ok - no juddering? No slipping? No release bearing noise?
Listen for whining from Gearbox
Engine and gearbox mounts, much rocking of engine?
Noises/rattles/vibrations/leaks
Easy to start?
Temp when idling, check fan kicks in

Suspension:
Steering rack recall work
Steering rack noisy, notchy, sticky, dry spots, creaky/clicky
Tramlining? Any excessive pulling left or right?
Tracking - check tyre wear and how wheels sit
Wishbones, bushes etc - does the car sit level?
Steering doesn't feel loose indicating worn ball joints, track rod ends etc?

Brakes, Wheels & Tyres:
Check condition and wear of brakes and tyres
What are wheels like, corrosion, buckles etc
What brand of tyres, do they match? Good sign of how well the owner cares for the car.
Check rear tyre wear
No brake juddering?

Electrics:
Whirring when ignition on - front headlight adjustment noise?
Lights, heaters, anything worth trying etc, windows, interior lights, mirrors, aircon if applicable
Keyfobs to test locks, key in the door

Interior:
Condition of steering wheel, plastics, seats, door cards
Carpet condition, check not wet, same for A/B/C pillars and boot
Window rattles and good performance going up and down incase of faulty window mech
Check all electrics inside work - lights, windows, wipers, stalks, switches etc
Seats feel solid, not rocky etc, same for door cards if leant on hard

Exterior:
Rust in general and on the roof, under the rubbers on the doors, hinges (boot hinges/door hinges/bonnet hinges)
Dents/Scratches/Stone chips
Paint issues - laquer, fading, swirls etc, headlight fading/blotchy, side skirts loose?
Check under the sills and jacking points for damage, under bumpers/skirts also for scuffs/cracks

Docs, History, Other:
Both keys?
All history - manuals, service books (check stamps), receipts, MOT cert(s), tax discs, V5 docs, Type R Leather Folder
Check HPI clear
Locking wheel nut key!
History on major services, 50k service, 75k service
75k service details? Valve clearance, belts, filters, fluids, hinges etc

CTR Buyers Guide

What should I look out for

3rd Gear

2007 cars were renowned for this and now some later models are starting to exhibit the same symptoms. The synchro on the third gear would prematurely wear and there is a warranty fix (for cars still under warranty).

Third gear can feel notchy on selection and if the wear is enough, the car will pop out of third gear shortly after selection.

Clutch

Clutch can whine a little when cold just at the biting point. This is known of by Honda but the clutch operation is not affected by this. Some clutches were replaced by Honda but the issue came back, so Honda are now not forthcoming with replacing clutches.

Squeaking clutch pedal. This can be the pedal box where the washers from the pedal spring have broken or come out completely, or the clutch master cylinder has dried up on the pedal side. Both were replaced under warranty but you will have to pay for it on a car out of warranty. If you are lucky lubrication of the clutch pedal assembly and/or the master cylinder where the rod from the clutch assembly goes into it can resolve the issue but it may come back. Use a motorbike chain lube as it does not evaporate like WD40.

Clicking clutch pedal can also be the pedal box, but you will always hear a slight click from the cruise control deactivation switch.

Noisy Valves (Clearances)

You may hear a tappety sound, more prevalent when the car is cold but also heard once it is warmed up. The clearances should be checked every 25k at the closest service and not necessarily on every 2nd service on the schedule. A lot of main dealers seem to neglect this check and adjustment so make sure they have been done.

More common with the FN2 is the noise of the injectors being confused for noisy tappets. The injectors are quite noisy on idle and this is normal.

Subframe click

The front subframe has been known to click when under hard acceleration or braking. This dirt getting caught between two sections of the subframe and is nothing more than an annoyance.There is a Honda fix for this.

Bulletin for it here: https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&rc...47534661,d.ZG4

Rocker Cover Paint

Under the bonnet, the Rocker Cover may have paint flaking away. It's nothing to worry about, just makes the engine bay look untidy!

Door Handles

The plastic covers on the door handles have been known to break away from their fixings leaving the plastic cover loose. This is a warranty repair if the car is still under warranty. The handle cover isn't sold separately and needs a complete replacement handle so not cheap. The cover can be glued back on but depending on the glue used has been known to come loose again.

Wing mirrors

A module in the wing mirrors can fail which either stops the wing mirrors folding or makes them fold extremely slowly. Each mirror has its own module and fail independently of each other. Replacement module called the SOD (Shut off device) and is part number 76209-SMG-E01 and is a 5 minute fix.

Full bulletin:

Rattles

Honda build quality did seem to take a dive on the 8th gen Civic. Rattles have been reported in the headlining, dash and from the windscreen.

Headlining is usually a loose cable that needs taping down or a loose clip if the headlining has been out for the fitting of aftermarket electronics (parrot/parking sensors etc).

Dash rattles are much harder to diagnose. Again could be a loose cable, some rattles have been the dash brightness button or the mph/kph button. People have been known to use bluetak to stop the button rattles. Some dashes have been removed and refitted by dealers under warranty and still not cured the rattle. Most you'll learn to live with.

Windscreen rattle is a simple fix. Water and dirt can get between the windscreen cowl (scuttle) and the windscreen which when the car is moving can make a rattle or in some cases a loud slapping noise. Remove the cowl (push pin at either side and one in the middle) and stick on a length of self adhesive foam tape and refit. Problem solved.

Suspension squeaks

Rear suspension can creak when cold/first moving away literally for the first couple of corners. Honda are aware but it is not a safety issue so there is not a high likelihood of a dealer fix. Lubricating the top and bottom of the shocks has been known to alleviate the issue but it more than likely will return.

Rust

Quite a new one, but the rubber strip at the top of the windscreen has been known to cut the paint and result in the roof starting to bubble. This should be covered under the 12 years anti corrosion warranty but currently some people are in the throws of attempting a claim from Honda UK for this.

On pre-facelift cars (before 2009) the rubber seal on the top of the doors at the edge closest to the B-pillar allowed water to pool meaning they started to rust where the paint was thinnest. Doors were replaced under warranty but a preventative measure was to put a decent blob of touch up paint on the door metal. Cars after the facelift had a revised rubber.

Recalls

So far only two major recalls affected the FN2, both no cost recalls.

The first was the replacement of the MICU box (fancy name for a fuse box) on 2008 models. The faulty unit would not go to sleep when the car was turned off and would drain the battery if the car was not run regularly. Some people reported flat batteries after a couple of days of not running the car and particularly if auto wipers and headlights had been left in the auto position. Recall consisted of replacement of the offending MICU.

The second more recent one affected all FN2s manufactured and related to a section of the wiring loom to the O/S front headlight. If the loom was incorrectly routed on the assembly line it could catch in the O/S engine mount and fray. Recall consisted of inspection of the routing and if necessary repair or if required complete replacement of that section of the wiring loom.

Type R vs Type R GT

The GT got additional equipment which included:
Auto rain sensing wipers
Auto dusk sensing headlights
Dual zone climate control (non GT cars didn't have AC)
Refrigerated glove box (switch-able vent to blow AC into glove box not an actual fridge)
Fog lights
Electric folding wing mirrors
Cruise control

Facelifts/Other editions

In 2009 the car got a minor facelift. This included dropping of the non-GT model, the addition of HIDs and the associated headlight washers and self leveling headlights, AUX connection as standard and tyre pressure warning system. Easiest way to tell a facelift is if it has the headlight washers but also the VIN will have an 09/10 in it.

Championship White edition released with a run of 600, included all of the facelift additions and door handles, petrol filler cap and grill accent were in a dark chrome colour. All CW cars had an LSD as standard.

Deep Bronze Pearl was dropped just before the facelift was introduced and there was the introduction of Deep Sapphire Blue and Nighthawk Black replaced by Crystal Black Pearl. Cars manufactured after April 2010 also had an LSD as standard.

2010 saw the release of the M200 Mugen special editions, limited to 200 and based on the Championship White model so included the LSD. They also came with Honda 19" Lightning alloys, Mugen front and rear lower splitters, Mugen badge on the boot lid and a x/200 Mugen plaque in place of the standard one near the gear knob. Also came with correspondingly numbered document/manual booklet wallet.


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

http://type-r-owners.co.uk/forums/s...ing-guide-check-list-for-the-FN2-Civic-Type-R

Here's the link


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## turbosnoop (Apr 14, 2015)

I've read those buddy. I also had the clutch pedal squeek, but it was the cruise control switch wearing away its stopper. I turned it round and greased it a few months ago, no issues since. 

At least you don't have to worry about a knackered turbo, or cambelt change with our ctr's


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

That's it mate I find them very simple to maintain and do 90% of the work myself. I know it's done right then. But in the 2 years I've had this one it's been awesome. Brake pads and servicing is all its needed. everything else I've done has been to make it feel mine.


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## steve_07 (Apr 10, 2015)

Get yourself an A6 avant 😉 carry everything you ever want to and in a c7 the interior is mint


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

Nice looking motors but don't fancy an estate or big car.


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

You know what you want Spike 

Revs to 8500rpm :thumb:


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## Spike85 (May 22, 2016)

I'm visiting a few cars over next few weeks 

also just been told a family member of mate has a low milage fn2 in mint condition forsale in next few months. Don't no price yet but fingers crossed


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

Silver is the way :thumb:

You wont regret it mate


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