# New Used Engine Fail - repair/replace?



## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

Help and advice please gents. Apologies for length of post but all relevant. 

Bought a new used car a little over three weeks ago, 2014 Ford Focus Ecoboost, very good condition, 70000 miles. After 24 hours and 30 miles gearbox mounting sheared and left the car undriveable, but the dealer we had it from was great, got the car recovered at 5pm on a Friday night to their garage and had it back to me filled fixed by first thing on the Tuesday morning. 

Roll on to today, 300 miles later, and on the way home from the school run this morning I noticed their was no heat from the blower. When I got home (approx 8-10 minute round trip) I turned off the engine but the engine fan was obviously running at full speed, so I popped the bonnet and sure enough there was no coolant visible in the tank. I left the car until this afternoon to cool and then filled it with the proper coolant mix and restarted it. At first it was reluctant to start but then seemed to tick over ok, after about 5 minutes I checked the coolant level and took the car around the local block, couple of hundred yards square. By the time I got back the car was puffing white smoke and struggling to tick over. I killed the engine and again checked the coolant, which was again, all gone. No sign of a leak, nothing in engine bay and nothing on the floor. 

I have spoken to the dealer we had it from (non ford) and they are going to collect the car tomorrow and check it out and sort it. They are very good, this is the third car we have had from them, and the only one we’ve had a problem with. I am not familiar with these engines but to me the symptoms are classic head gasket failure, possibly needing an engine replacement. I have no doubts about my dealer fixing it as quickly and efficiently as possible, but if the situation is as serious as I believe it to be, then I am really thinking that I want the car replaced rather than repaired. What do you guys think?


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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

Isn't this the same problem the lads with the new focus rs are having on there 2.3 ecoboost engines


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Sounds like a cylinder head gasket problem to me


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Definitely sounds like head gasket failure. 

Hopefully you'll get it sorted to your satisfaction. 

I'd imagine you'd be in a fairly strong position to request a replacement vehicle. Hopefully the dealer is as good as you say 

Cooks


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

If you have have faith in the dealer, you should let them repair it and see how it goes. 

I guess they can't really know of any new issues until they've been told. 

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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

I have not done my own maintenance for years now but in the past when a head gasket has gone it was just a case of making sure the head and block had not warped. Then a good clean of both surfaces and reassemble with a new gasket.

Others went further and had the surfaces professionally skimmed to flatten the surfaces.

I don't see why it has to be a complicated job if there is nothing wrong with the mating surfaces.

Do Ford still use stretch bolts on the head that have to be changed?


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## mechrepairs (Aug 11, 2008)

The small plastic pipework will have failed, engine over heated and the head will have cracked very very common on these.

Fords only want to sell an engine and not a head, the correct timing tools etc to do the job are a cost in itself, I should know we did one a few months back. 

Just google 1.0 ecoboost, so much on it 


Carl


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

Thanks all for the input. The general consensus of my research is that these engines are usually really good, but when they do go wrong they’ve pretty much had it. I’ve had a head gasket go before and know the warning signs but this was so quick, literally minutes. 

I do have confidence in the dealer to sort the car however I don’t think I have any confidence left in the car itself. One could argue that if it is repaired and returned then it should be mechanically sound for the future, but I doubt that is going to stop me from worrying about what else could go wrong. 

The dealer does have a comparable Kia Ceed for just a little more than I paid for the Focus, so maybe there is a case for that but we also need to check out procedures with the finance company. We’ll have to see what the repair shop reports back on Monday.


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## techdetail (Jul 15, 2017)

Hope you get sorted and resolved soon does like he's gasket issue I would ensure that work is carried out by professionals but if you have lost faith might be better option to swap vehicles 

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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Mcpx said:


> Thanks all for the input. The general consensus of my research is that these engines are usually really good, but when they do go wrong they've pretty much had it. I've had a head gasket go before and know the warning signs but this was so quick, literally minutes.
> 
> I do have confidence in the dealer to sort the car however I don't think I have any confidence left in the car itself. One could argue that if it is repaired and returned then it should be mechanically sound for the future, but I doubt that is going to stop me from worrying about what else could go wrong.
> 
> The dealer does have a comparable Kia Ceed for just a little more than I paid for the Focus, so maybe there is a case for that but we also need to check out procedures with the finance company. We'll have to see what the repair shop reports back on Monday.


Personally i would want to swap the car, good luck anyway.


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

Just a theory for the more mechanically minded, when the gearbox mounting broke the engine dropped on one side and they replaced the mounting and a driveshaft, and assured me there was no further damage. But is it possible that this may have disturbed or damaged a hose or some other part of the coolant system and led to the subsequent failure? Unlikely that a garage is going to diagnose there own negligence but if it is possible then it could help my case.


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## daydotz (May 15, 2011)

The 1.0 ecoboost has a habit of dumping it's coolant & ruining the engine


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## Soapybubbles (Feb 10, 2014)

Off topic but thought I'd share

Bought a Megane earlier this year from BCA auction , 1 week left of manufacturers warranty when I received it and only 24k miles, had it one day and noticed a distinct rattle from the engine, straight down to main dealers with it (it had full main dealer service history) told me they couldn't look at it for 2 weeks!

To cut a,long story short it got a new engine and turbo under manufacturers warranty.

Was a stressful few weeks waiting on word of Renault covering it..

Link of rattle






Sounded like timing chain issue,it's same engine as in Nissan Juke, seemingly a common issue


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## mechrepairs (Aug 11, 2008)

Mcpx said:


> Just a theory for the more mechanically minded, when the gearbox mounting broke the engine dropped on one side and they replaced the mounting and a driveshaft, and assured me there was no further damage. But is it possible that this may have disturbed or damaged a hose or some other part of the coolant system and led to the subsequent failure? Unlikely that a garage is going to diagnose there own negligence but if it is possible then it could help my case.


This is what I reckon has happened, years ago the water pipe work was rubber and could take a bit of stretch etc, now it's small bore rigid plastic and fails.

Carl


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

Soapybubbles said:


> Off topic but thought I'd share
> 
> Bought a Megane earlier this year from BCA auction , 1 week left of manufacturers warranty when I received it, had it one day and noticed a distinct rattle from the engine, straight down to main dealers with it (it had full main dealer service history) told me they couldn't look at it for 2 weeks!
> 
> ...


Good result and a good argument for getting a swap to the Kia, a 2014 Ceed would still have 3+ years of warranty left on it.

Car was collected today as promised and I should know more by Monday. Have to say that I took my wife's Peugeot to work tonight and after driving that I'd be happy to get the Focus back!


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

Sorry chaps but these kinds of failures on engines this young, it's ****-poor in my book.


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## edsel (Aug 22, 2008)

70k miles in three years is a heck of a lot miles for such a small engine (I assume its a one litre) I've owned three one litre eco boost fiestas and have never had a problem. The 4 cylinder 1.25 engined fiestas are perhaps a little more durable but are under powered and not so nice to drive as the three cylinder.


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## edsel (Aug 22, 2008)

I might add that a broken, split, failed engine mount is a sure sign the car has been driven hard.


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## packard (Jun 8, 2009)

Sister in law just traded one in, £4-6k repair bill from Ford on a car with forecourt price of just a little bit more. Common fault on these for reasons described above.

I would if you could sway away from this engine as soooo many problems, they even have a Facebook group about it..


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

edsel said:


> 70k miles in three years is a heck of a lot miles for such a small engine (I assume its a one litre) I've owned three one litre eco boost fiestas and have never had a problem. The 4 cylinder 1.25 engined fiestas are perhaps a little more durable but are under powered and not so nice to drive as the three cylinder.


Come on though, it's not 1968 any more; materials science and manufacturing technology has improved massively since the days of having to rebuild engines to get them near 100K.

I'll tell you what I think the problem here is: cost cutting measures, pure and simple. The budget car makers are all being creamed by the Koreans and have been for the last few years. This is one strategy aimed at keeping their product aligned with a dirt cheap sticker price. I bet GM and co are all at it.

As other have said, the equivalent Korean Kia or suchlike is now probably a safer bet, although it does concern me that some manufacturers might not have the experience of car design when it comes to passing things like the swerve test, which the latest Dacia Duster failed spectacularly.


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## edsel (Aug 22, 2008)

Indeed it's not 1968 and indeed any modern engine should be capable of 100k miles easily. 25k miles a year is huge mileage even by commercial vehicle standards. The broken gearbox mount suggests it's done a few quick getaways. Nothing lasts forever but you can make it last longer by looking after it.


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## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

25,000 a year is far from silly, there are plenty of reps hammering out 75k plus a year.

The time it's taken to do those miles is completely irrelevant as long as it's been serviced properly at the right times.

If anything, doing a lot of miles per year usually indicates a lot of main road or motorway use which is relatively low stress for an engine.


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## Soapybubbles (Feb 10, 2014)

25k/year is absolutely nothing by today's standards in engine technology.


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

Ok so bit of an update. Visited the dealer today and the car does indeed have a blown head gasket, which they are fixing at their expense. Due to the complexity of the work (getting the head skimmed, pressure testing etc) I am unlikely to see the car until at least next week, which is already causing me problems with getting to work, getting kids to school etc. 

I told the dealer that I was not happy with the car and enquired about the possibility of exchanging it for an alternative, which was immediately ruled out based on the fact that - the car would now have another keeper on it and ‘we don’t take cars back’! I then suggested that they should provide an extended warranty on the car in case of future issues, which they did agree to but at my cost, flatly refusing to make any contribution as they are paying to fix the car and have ‘already put enough money into it’, which I pointed out was not as much as I had put in. 

So the dealers response is that they are fixing the car and that’s the end of it. However a quick bit of research tells me that under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 I do have a strong case for rejecting the car, especially as we are still (just) within the initial 30 day period. This means that they would have to give us a full refund, including the full value of our part ex. As the car was bought on finance they are our first port of call and we’ll see what they advise. 

So at the moment my choices are to either accept the repaired car as is and hope for the best or to go down the rejection route which could take weeks and get very messy with no guaranteed outcome.


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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

If it was me id give it back. I know things can be fixed but it's cases like this that spoil car ownership. If your within your rights to return it, then do it if that's what's best for you.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

Depends on how much you value your relationship with the dealer and sometimes better the devil you know?

Car already has it's file marked in my eyes for a failure of that nature at such low mileage.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Mcpx said:


> Ok so bit of an update. Visited the dealer today and the car does indeed have a blown head gasket, which they are fixing at their expense. Due to the complexity of the work (getting the head skimmed, pressure testing etc) I am unlikely to see the car until at least next week, which is already causing me problems with getting to work, getting kids to school etc.
> 
> I told the dealer that I was not happy with the car and enquired about the possibility of exchanging it for an alternative, which was immediately ruled out based on the fact that - the car would now have another keeper on it and 'we don't take cars back'! I then suggested that they should provide an extended warranty on the car in case of future issues, which they did agree to but at my cost, flatly refusing to make any contribution as they are paying to fix the car and have 'already put enough money into it', which I pointed out was not as much as I had put in.
> 
> ...


i think the dealers attitude sums it up for me, if you can, threaten to go down an ombudsman route if they won't pay ball, get the kia if you can, such piece of mind :thumb:


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

If it was me I'd be looking to get out of it, it could be fine and trouble free but when a car under four years old goes through a box mount and a head gasket that rings alarm bells with me !


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

At this point I am just keen to get the car back, which should be Tuesday now. I have spoken to a Ford dealer who will do a full diagnostic report and visual inspection for a very reasonable £50 but I doubt that is going to provide the evidence I need. They suggested getting an RAC/AA inspection or similar, which i believe is about £150ish? Because we have reported it to the finance company as unsatisfactory quality they have assigned a claim handler who will be in touch and can hopefully offer ********** advice. Presumably if the issue is going to affect the future value of the car they will have a vested interest in rejecting it.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

How does one do a diagnostic report and visual inspection of a head gasket failure that was subsequently repaired?


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

Update. Now resolved

We were informed that the car would be fixed and returned last Tuesday but after consulting with the finance company we refused to accept it back. The dealer maintained his insistence that this was not possible and simply could not comprehend why I wouldn’t want the repaired car back, even at one point telling me to my face that I needed to contact Ford and it wasn’t his responsibility! Somehow I managed to maintain my composure and despite me explaining both retail (retail manager for major uk store) and consumer law to him, he wasn’t interested. I told him not to return the car as it would be refused, at which point he decided that it would have to go into storage at my expense until I decided to take it. That was time for me to leave. 

So the next day the finance company assigned a case worker who called and went over all the information we had supplied and said she’d give the dealer a call. 10 minutes later she called back and they’d accepted the car back, agreed to refund our deposit and the value of the Volvo we traded in. I can only assume that the guy must have believed that the Consumer Rights Act was something I had made up, until someone else told him it was actually correct! 

So anyway, turns out they hadn’t sold the Volvo so we were able to get that back with a few of the minor faults fixed for free to boot, plus the cash and the finance cancelled. We even got a refund cheque from DVLA for the tax, which they paid, lol. Been an absolute nightmare for weeks and ended up exactly where we started, but on the positive side, I do get to go car shopping all over again!


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Thats good news, a major nightmare but it worked out well in the end, i recently rejected a new Focus RS due to the engine blowing at 700 miles !!, its quite stressful but good to be out of the other side.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Fantastic result!!!

Now, car shopping time. Any thoughts as to what you're going to buy?

Cooks


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## Sam534 (May 10, 2017)

Yes! What motors have you got planned? 

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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

182_Blue said:


> Thats good news, a major nightmare but it worked out well in the end, i recently rejected a new Focus RS due to the engine blowing at 700 miles !!, its quite stressful but good to be out of the other side.


Been reading a lot about them, shocking they haven't actually issued a recall especially as they have updated the design to prevent the problem on later models. Getting 700 miles out of a £35k car is ridiculous.

For anyone buying a car, look into the Consumer Rights Act 2015. This legislation replaces the Sale of Goods Act. Basically it means that *ANYTHING* you buy from a UK retailer has to be as described, fit for purpose and of acceptable quality. As described is self explanatory however the definition of fit for purpose has changed. It used to mean that it had to be capable of what it was designed for, ie a car has to be able to go safely from a to b, whereas now it means it has to be fit for the purpose that you intended for it, for example if you specified that you needed a car that could tow a caravan and then found out that it couldn't. The catch here is that you have to be able to prove in writing that you made your intended use or requirement clear to the dealer.

The important part of the Act here is the definition of acceptable quality, so in the case of a car (new or used) it means that it has to be free of any faults. The other important part of the Act is the timeframe, if a fault occurs within the first 30 days then you have the right under this act to reject the car and receive a full refund. Obviously the fault has to be significant, minor flaws that are easily rectified with no further consequence are unlikely to get you your money back, neither is changing your mind. If the fault occurs between 30 days and 6 months then you are still entitled to a refund however the retailer is allowed to make a deduction based on usage/wear and tear etc. After 6 months you are still covered on the same basis for up to 6 years, but at that time the onus is on you to prove that the fault was present at the time of purchase.

Knowing your Rights is one thing, enforcing them is another. Fortunately I don't take well to intimidation.


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

Cookies said:


> Fantastic result!!!
> 
> Now, car shopping time. Any thoughts as to what you're going to buy?
> 
> Cooks


Sadly I still want a Focus, preferably a Zetec S for the combination of looks with day to day economy. I've done the power thing but now I'm old and lazy I'm kind of over it.

Always wanted an RCZ, quite possibly the prettiest car ever not made in Italy, but the wife has a 307 which is basically the same chassis and cabin and I hate that with a passion, maybe the Volvo spoiled me but I find the build quality and materials, especially inside, to be very poor. Sorry RCZ people!


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

RCZ is a 308.

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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

Paid the deposit yesterday on a 13 plate Focus Zetec S with a bunch of additional options on it. Getting serviced and MOT’d and has to have a new front splitter fitted and painted so will be about another week yet depending on parts availability. 

Best bit is it’s in the detailers dream upgraded Candy Red, a mere £750 option according to the original invoice. I viewed the car fresh into stock before it had undergone any prep and it was a stunning colour even then, so can’t wait to get to work on that and see how it comes out.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Mcpx said:


> Paid the deposit yesterday on a 13 plate Focus Zetec S with a bunch of additional options on it. Getting serviced and MOT'd and has to have a new front splitter fitted and painted so will be about another week yet depending on parts availability.
> 
> Best bit is it's in the detailers dream upgraded Candy Red, a mere £750 option according to the original invoice. I viewed the car fresh into stock before it had undergone any prep and it was a stunning colour even then, so can't wait to get to work on that and see how it comes out.


Sounds like a lovely car, chum. I know you haven't got it yet, but any pics?

Cheers

Cooks

Sent from my Wenger 16999


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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

Mcpx said:


> Paid the deposit yesterday on a 13 plate Focus Zetec S with a bunch of additional options on it. Getting serviced and MOT'd and has to have a new front splitter fitted and painted so will be about another week yet depending on parts availability.
> 
> Best bit is it's in the detailers dream upgraded Candy Red, a mere £750 option according to the original invoice. I viewed the car fresh into stock before it had* undergone any prep* and it was a stunning colour even then, so can't wait to get to work on that and see how it comes out.


sounds good. i had a focus for 7 years and shouldn't have sold it really :-/

swapped a penny pinching diesel costing me peanuts for the R32 which eats tax, fuel and service costs for tea!

as for the car not been prep'd id use that as a bargaining tool and take it as it as it is before they add some free swirls


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

Cookies said:


> Sounds like a lovely car, chum. I know you haven't got it yet, but any pics?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> ...


Not the actual car but this is similar apart from the wheels. Mine coming on 18's


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

kingswood said:


> as for the car not been prep'd id use that as a bargaining tool and take it as it as it is before they add some free swirls


I've turned down the 200 quid Williams Synthetic Protection, despite the lifetime guarantee, and as part of the pre sale we've agreed what work is going to be done on the car, so it's going into the workshop for the mechanicals followed by the body shop for paint and wheels, after which it's just going to be washed and have an interior clean prior to delivery. It's a 3/4 year old car so another wash isn't going to make much difference at this point, the main point for me is that they aren't going to cover it in loads of greasy crap that'll take me a months of washes to remove.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Mcpx said:


> Not the actual car but this is similar apart from the wheels. Mine coming on 18's


That's lovely!! It'll be stunning on the 18s.

Cooks

Sent from my Wenger 16999


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