# Anyone got a Mk6 1.2 Golf?



## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

helping someone find a golf, and they have said they would rather get a mk6 new (or nearly new) 1.2 rather than a mk5 with a bigger engine.

i've no idea why they won't look at second hand, but it is a no go.

so, anyone got a 1.2? i had an older Polo with a 1.2 and hated it. moved up to a 1.4 and that was ok. the 1.4 TSi i have now is great....but a Mk5.

my money is on it being sluggish and under powered. main use will be A roads and motorways.

saying that, the 1.6 doesn't look a lot better on paper anyway, but i guess won't be so bad.

anyone?


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## dew1911 (Jun 9, 2009)

1.2 in such a big car, avoid at all costs. It'd be like pulling the car around with a half dead gerbil.


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## Coops (Apr 26, 2008)

There are 2 versions of the 1.2 for the Golf either 85PS or 105PS. Would have thought either would have been suitable - 105PS is the same as the 1.6 TDI and 1.6 BMT.

Certainly won't win any traffic light grand prixs but not everyone drives their cars like they've been stolen!


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Test one and see, i had one as a loan car and for me it was woefully slow, then again i am used to a bit more power


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

I was not aware they done a 1.2 in a golf mk6, seems a very small engine for teh size of car, they do a 1.4 version, best thing to do is testdrive one, the newer engines have more power than 10 years ago, engines have moved on big times now, on co2 plus bhp and power delivery, and give better mpg now and are smoother.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

People need to stop relating engine size to usability - the world is moving on and engine technology is making smaller engines ever more feasible.

Look at Ford with the 1.0 litre Focus - 99 and 124PS, cleaner, lighter, more fuel efficient and more powerful than the old 1.6 litre


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## dew1911 (Jun 9, 2009)

andy665 said:


> People need to stop relating engine size to usability - the world is moving on and engine technology is making smaller engines ever more feasible.
> 
> Look at Ford with the 1.0 litre Focus - 99 and 124PS, cleaner, lighter, more fuel efficient and more powerful than the old 1.6 litre


Sorry but quite simply these wheezly little engines will never work as well as a larger, more relaxed lump. I very much doubt you'll get a 1.2 beyond 100k as it'll blow itself to bits long before then. a 1.8/2.0 will be far less stressed to do it.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

dew1911 said:


> Sorry but quite simply these wheezly little engines will never work as well as a larger, more relaxed lump. I very much doubt you'll get a 1.2 beyond 100k as it'll blow itself to bits long before then. a 1.8/2.0 will be far less stressed to do it.


Manufacturers have no choice with ever tighter emissions targets. Its worth reading the Autocar test drive on the 1.0 Focus, they were staggered by it and wheezy is the last thing that they summed it up as

Long term durability - you may have a point (time will tell) but ever smaller engines is something we have to get used to in new cars....me, I'll stick with my older cars with bigger engines


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

dew1911 said:


> Sorry but quite simply these wheezly little engines will never work as well as a larger, more relaxed lump. I very much doubt you'll get a 1.2 beyond 100k as it'll blow itself to bits long before then. a 1.8/2.0 will be far less stressed to do it.


That is a valid point, but engines on the market are getting smaller with in the motor industry, expect the supercar league, thats a different game altogether but they are improving on co2 emissions on there end, like any other manufacturer.

What alot of company's are doing, they are making the new engines direct injection straight through , with more boost, so some of them have turbochargers in them to boost the performance, better mpg so forth, the new engines on the market are more efficient than many years ago, they are quicker now, but its early days at present to see how engines will fair on the 100k mark even the 200k mark.

Every engine on the market has a design fault of some kind or something will go wrong, but engine testing in the factory is a different league than yourself driving a car, they are revved up to the redline for hours, and the manifold is bright hot red in colour, engine breaking in and seeing the perimeters of the engine, plus cold weather testing as well..


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

I have driven recently, a vauxhall corsa 1.3 diesel 75 bhp and they are very hot sellers, plenty of performance on tap when you want to push along, plus it averaged 75 mpg, i was impressed, just had a mini test-drive in one, was not looking to buy, just testing engine on the vauxhall, no problem on the 70 mph mark or over, it had pull on the motorway up the hill.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

But one thing i don't understand is performance levels, such as 300 bhp + on cars where people have tuned them, will you use that power, you will for a short time or on a track, its the buzz they get out of it, such as torque pulling you back in the seat, but my days have gone for that, and i'm still very young in age, but i've done it.

One thing i want from a car is a reliable car, good mpg, low insurance, low road tax, and takes me from A to Z with no hassle, that's my dream car, power is the driver who's driving the car.


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## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

Trip I've driven a new corsa with the same engine (1.3cdti) and also I learned in a Punto Evo with a 1.3 turbo diesel and I was seriously impressed by both.. in terms of performance and economy!

I have a 1.1 8v with a neck-breaking 55bhp from factory (lot less now mind you ) and I think I average below 45mpg. New diesels with three times the power are making well over the mpg I get! The way cars have come in recent years is absolutely amazing.

I think I recall a 1.0 3cyl turbo Kia engine making 120bhp?


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

The work has a little Vauxhall van with that same 1.3 lump and its nippy for the size:thumb:


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## Adrian Convery (May 27, 2010)

My sister has a 1.4 twist and it struggles on hills lol, maybe I'm used to my 2.0GT TDi golf but it feels very slow!


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

This engine downsizing is only the start - it marks the start of a trend back to lighter cars.

Smaller (the Ford 1 litre block fits on a piece of A4), lighter engines mean a smaller engine bay, therefore smaller, lighter bodyshell for same interior space means smaller brakes are required and so it goes on

Cars have become ridiculously bloated, partly as a result of safety requirements but mainly because of marketing departments demands and lazy engineering, whats happening in the industry now is good news for everyone


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

alan_mcc said:


> Trip I've driven a new corsa with the same engine (1.3cdti) and also I learned in a Punto Evo with a 1.3 turbo diesel and I was seriously impressed by both.. in terms of performance and economy!
> 
> I have a 1.1 8v with a neck-breaking 55bhp from factory (lot less now mind you ) and I think I average below 45mpg. New diesels with three times the power are making well over the mpg I get! The way cars have come in recent years is absolutely amazing.
> 
> I think I recall a 1.0 3cyl turbo Kia engine making 120bhp?


Hi Alan, as you and me know we are young in age, i;ve done that hitting on that accelerator peddle hard to test the car, days are gone for me now 

The vauxhall corsa 1.3, i was seriously impressed, had plenty of mpg, and when i stepped on the pedal it had the get up and go attitude, but did not affect the mpg, i was only on throttle for 5 seconds max, and thats it, well built cars and was smooth all the way.

Correct especially BMW, on their diesels they are placing twin turbos and are even thinking of placing three turbos later on, will have more power better mpg, but plenty of torque.
Even Mercedes Benz is catching up.


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## dew1911 (Jun 9, 2009)

andy665 said:


> This engine downsizing is only the start - it marks the start of a trend back to lighter cars.
> 
> Smaller (the Ford 1 litre block fits on a piece of A4), lighter engines mean a smaller engine bay, therefore smaller, lighter bodyshell for same interior space means smaller brakes are required and so it goes on
> 
> Cars have become ridiculously bloated, partly as a result of safety requirements but mainly because of marketing departments demands and lazy engineering, *whats happening in the industry now is good news for everyone*


No it isn't, it's simply killing off the motor industry to all these little sewing machines. Going be harder to get proper engines rarther than over strung little motors going kaboom quite regular.

I'll never have a car under a 2.0 again, might as well use pedals...


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I am with Dew on this one.I can't see these small engines in a medium to large car lasting long at all.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

dew1911 said:


> No it isn't, it's simply killing off the motor industry to all these little sewing machines. Going be harder to get proper engines rarther than over strung little motors going kaboom quite regular.
> 
> I'll never have a car under a 2.0 again, might as well use pedals...


Why is it killing the motor industry - its actually doing a lot to invigorate it.

What constitutes a proper engine?, in the 1960's it was overhead valves and carbs, none of this new fangled overhead camshafts and fuel injection, let alone 4 valves per cylinder and electronics

I'm sure people in the 1920's when the average engine capacity was 4.5 litres thought that smaller engined cars would never be made to work effectively, reliably etc

I'm no tree hugger but the regulations that manufacturers are being forced to meet is good news for the buyer, for the public in terms of emissions and conserving oil reserves and good for the industry and jobs

Roll on 2014 when diesels will have to clean up their act - hopefully it will speed up the swing back to petrol that has already started


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

andy665 said:


> Why is it killing the motor industry - its actually doing a lot to invigorate it.
> 
> What constitutes a proper engine?
> 
> ...


Completely agree, this is just the start, diesels in small capacity and going to get less and less, the diesel is now at the stage where to develop them anymore is going to start costing ££££ The new Ford engine is going to be built in the UK (I think i read that ...) and because the rest of the world -ie America don't like or understand diesel this is the future. Yes we all think size is best but without engines like this the car industry will be doomed.

I would rather have a small petrol than a 1.6 diesel, I look after the cars at work and get to make the decisions as to what we buy - currently Golf 1.6TDi Match Bluemotions but i'm itching to turn that into petrols. People get biased towards diesel and assume because it does 55mpg its going to save them money.

So congratulations ford - and VW for starting the downsizing trend. I for one want to have a go in the 1.0 turbo VW UP GT  and for anyone that doesn't believe in small engine cars,go and try a small engined Fiat 

The future is petrol and Fuel cells, Electric won't last long


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

SteveTDCi said:


> Completely agree, this is just the start, diesels in small capacity and going to get less and less, the diesel is now at the stage where to develop them anymore is going to start costing ££££ The new Ford engine is going to be built in the UK (I think i read that ...) and because the rest of the world -ie America don't like or understand diesel this is the future. Yes we all think size is best but without engines like this the car industry will be doomed.
> 
> I would rather have a small petrol than a 1.6 diesel, I look after the cars at work and get to make the decisions as to what we buy - currently Golf 1.6TDi Match Bluemotions but i'm itching to turn that into petrols. People get biased towards diesel and assume because it does 55mpg its going to save them money.
> 
> ...


Fords engines have been made for years in the uk, especially the diesel ones.

The petrol ones are the ecoboost engines, with turbocharger and direct injection in the chambers, the quickest one they have is the 2.0 litre 240 bhp i believe they use this engine in the s max and the new mondeo.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I knew the diesels were, I've spent a few happy hours working on the crank line  Bridgend does the bigger petrols and still does the jag engines doesn't it ? I'm glad they are doing the smaller stuff to


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

SteveTDCi said:


> I knew the diesels were, I've spent a few happy hours working on the crank line  Bridgend does the bigger petrols and still does the jag engines doesn't it ? I'm glad they are doing the smaller stuff to


Its a shame the motor trade in the UK is limited to what it use to be, if they opened more factories there would be more jobs and better prospects with in the UK, the motor trade is a massive field, just a shame it's more worldwide.

I actually do miss Rover, they will never be the same again to what they were, they honestly were class cars and very comfortable.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Rover, destroyed by the unions and directors, although crap cars didn't help. I had a look at the 200 being built once, the end of the production line was a mass of cars being reworked was fun, watching landrovers being built was good as was cars being unloaded off ford boats at date am docks. I wish there was more manufacturing full stop in the uk, I'm sure it will go full circle and we will get it back.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

SteveTDCi said:


> Rover, destroyed by the unions and directors, although crap cars didn't help. I had a look at the 200 being built once, the end of the production line was a mass of cars being reworked was fun, watching landrovers being built was good as was cars being unloaded off ford boats at date am docks. I wish there was more manufacturing full stop in the uk, I'm sure it will go full circle and we will get it back.


I totally agree, the job market will boost in the motortrade in UK if more factories opened here, but to be honest its cheaper making the parts else where, and not be funny, in other countries they work on over drive mode, double hours and less money, some of the parts manufactures can not keep up with the company making cars, i believe this happened to VW on here, they had to close the factory down, the parts were not made in time, the production line was way to quick, the line was closed and back logged, so pressure was there when the parts came.


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

Point taken on the technology front but I usually work to a power to weight basis and 100 seems a bit lean?

Interesting discussion though!


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

should_do_more said:


> Point taken on the technology front but I usually work to a power to weight basis and 100 seems a bit lean?
> 
> Interesting discussion though!


Power to weight ratio, that does have affect, plus the chassis and the engine, and more importantly the drive train, thats placing the power down.


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## M.O.S (Dec 26, 2008)

Small engines aren't always the example - for example the 3.0 td6 Range Rover used more fuel than the 3.6 tdv8 range rover, which in turn used more than the 4.4 tdv8 that does 30.1 mpg!


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

As others have said it seems an awfully small engine for the size of car it is - quite surprising that a brand such as VW has gone ahead with this. 

Obviously the 1.2 was only introduced from the MK6 so maybe it's come from the consumers views/comments directly that's led them to make it in this engine?

Obviously the 1.2 will be in 'S' trim - something of which seems a lot of money for the spec (ok it's only entry level) but still nearly £15,000 for that......c'mon VW.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Stop digging up old threads!


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

SteveyG said:


> Stop digging up old threads!


It's not a crime. 

Ok, then, so an old thread hasn't been 'converesed in' for some years, why isn't the thead locked then if you are so against thread resurrection...hmmmm???


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> As others have said it seems an awfully small engine for the size of car it is - quite surprising that a brand such as VW has gone ahead with this.
> 
> Obviously the 1.2 was only introduced from the MK6 so maybe it's come from the consumers views/comments directly that's led them to make it in this engine?
> 
> Obviously the 1.2 will be in 'S' trim - something of which seems a lot of money for the spec (ok it's only entry level) but still nearly £15,000 for that......c'mon VW.


Get used to it, small engines are the future



SteveyG said:


> Stop digging up old threads!


Oooooh your in Peterborough


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

I'd rent one and see! :lol: :thumb:

With regards small engines in big cars. I think that generally these smaller turbo-charged lumps are good, and an improvement for certain reasons.

The developments in that direction, such as variable valve, direct injection, and now the return of turbo's and supercharging (but not just for extreme power, but good power to CC ratio) can be good!

As a reader of Evo magazine, I can see where they've been used well they can be not just a compromise, but an improvement of attainable and accessable power/torque with improved drivability and efficiency (BMW M cars for example - they were pleasantly surprised).

Even my Ford Fiesta, although currently I have the biggest engine, with Ti-VCT has 120bhp from a 1.6 and 134g CO2. My old 1.4 fiesta was 80bhp and 155g CO2. Cheaper tax, better mpg, and 50% more power! And that's without a turbo. Now the same unit is pushing 180bhp as an ecoboost turbo in bigger cars and the future ST. As long as it's durable, great! Turbo engines have much lower down peak torque, and higher relative torque figures for comparable BHP to a larger N/A engine. And torque is what feels good in your back when you floor it!

The exception for me, is where they've been too over ambitious, and gone beyond sensible limits - like that 1.4 VAG engine thats twin charged, 170-180bhp and drinks oil and blows up. No thanks!

Would I have a mondeo or focus with a 180 bhp 1.6 turbo - sure thing! Although potentially, this is where diesel's come in with larger cars. And I'm sure the 2.0l petrol turbo would go quicker still!


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

SteveTDCi said:


> Get used to it, small engines are the future


Oh aye, says who?


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Oh, having said that, I still want to own an NA 2.5-3.2 litre V6 sometime before I die!


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

-PJB- said:


> Oh, having said that, I still want to own a 2.5-3.2 litre V6 sometime before I die!


Best get it quick then as Steve reckons smaller engines are the future!


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Vw with the 1.2 and 1.4, pug have put a 1.2 3 pot in the 208, fiat with the .8 twin air 2 pot, ford with the 1.0 3 pot in the focus, BMW are looking at 3 pots too


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

That's alright, it'll probably be a car from the past! I find they're a bit cheaper. :lol:

*That* said. I've decided the Fiesta's a keeper. Having had it remapped to 130bhp + in <1000kg, with the extra torque it's flying along (relatively )


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Oh aye, says who?


I think he's right. The 1 litre Ford Focus is surprisingly quick, but I remember learning to drive in a 1 litre Micra that almost moved backwards when you pressed the accelerator.

Cylinder volume is a pretty irrelevant figure these days as the engines are getting more efficient at extracting the energy from the fuel.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

The only problem with cylinder volume, and why it is then relevant for a cylinder of lower volume is in retaining that engergy repeately and safely cycle after cycle, mile after mile in a smaller space with less material.

With the increased compressions of turbos too, this for me is the limiting factor... the resilience of the material and ability to withstand the energy... not the ability to extract energy! :thumb:


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Sorry I have not read this thread fully, but what's the power for the vw golf 1.2 litre.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

80 - 105 PS I think for the 1.2 Golf.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

I think it's 85 and 105PS, almost the same as the 1.6 diesel.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

105ps should be enough, so this is entry level for the volkswagen.

I have driven a 1,4 litre petrol golf mk6, had plenty of go in the engine, I could not fault the car, very smooth, solid and well balanced on the road; but these small engines are not for me, I like power personally all the way through, always have done; but for mpg it's a no brainier on here.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

i think some of it is a little false economy end of the day...it is alright in town etc. for longer distances surely a more relaxed lump is a better option?


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

^^ I think that's what it's aimed at


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## yin (Dec 29, 2005)

I have just collected a 1.2tsi Leon its got 103bhp and its doing 50 mpg and still got less than 400 miles on the clock awesome little engine :thumb:


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

yin said:


> I have just collected a 1.2tsi Leon its got 103bhp and its doing 50 mpg and still got less than 400 miles on the clock awesome little engine :thumb:


I've had a go in one of the 1.2 Leon's & in all honesty I thought I was driving a 1.6 it pulls very well for a 1.2! :thumb:

The 'FR' was ok too - nothing special but was good enough.


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## mt8 (Jan 7, 2011)

I have got the 1.2 tsi vw polo and the engine whilst driving feels like a 1.4/1.6, friends are amazed when they first experience it.

Granted I drive it with slightly more revs but the engine is fantastic, 40mpg around town and 50-60 on longer trips out of town.

Like everything in life it's a compromise, 

Malc.


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## Fac (Mar 31, 2012)

alan_mcc said:


> Trip I've driven a new corsa with the same engine (1.3cdti) and also I learned in a Punto Evo with a 1.3 turbo diesel and I was seriously impressed by both.. in terms of performance and economy!
> 
> I have a 1.1 8v with a neck-breaking 55bhp from factory (lot less now mind you ) and I think I average below 45mpg. New diesels with three times the power are making well over the mpg I get! The way cars have come in recent years is absolutely amazing.
> 
> I think I recall a 1.0 3cyl turbo Kia engine making 120bhp?


Tis true....
Mk vi gt 2.0l tdi. Averaging 58 mpg. Motorway @ 2200rpm ? around the suggested speed limit of course
They threw another gear on them to chug along quite well, the aerodynamics go such a long way aswell as tyres. 
Ours is a 12 plate (v.lucky and appreciate couple) the new stuff is so tomorrows world.


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