# Big wax test



## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

I'm going be doing a lot of work on a car i have at my disposal in the garden currently (affectionally referred to as the Mule from now onwards). But yesterday started with a test of a few waxes.

Yesterday morning washed off and dried the bonnet ready for a big test



















a true picture of the condition of this bonnet can be seen here by gloomy daylight










and here by Brinkman and camera flash










I'm going to be sanding and polishing this car as a bit of a learning curve so didn't want to polish it up just yet as i'll need to save as much clear for the sanding practice as possible. The car is all original paint apart from the bumpers but thats another post.

The car has sat on the drive for a few weeks and i've intended to have a bit of a wax test on it but only just got round to it.

It's a criminal shame to put good wax on this swirly finish but all in the name of testing here we go.

I first HD Cleanse the whole bonnet which really cleaned up the finish making the swirls easier to see!!!

I then taped up the bonnet into six



















Then went inside to get the collection. Today's line up is

Zym0l Royale, Vintage, Concours, Creme, Rubbish Boys Original Edition and a secret wax (hidden from view in the photos)










These were applied to a section of the panel each following preferred methods or instructions if i had no knowledge of them.

They can all be seen here curing following one coat (apart from the secret wax )



















They were buffed off again following preferred timings and methods or instructions.

The results on day one look like this




























Next up after spraying with cold water to set the carnauba the following beading could be seen










I then took the tape off and a mate demonstrated a little sheeting



and the final pic for this set after clearing the panel off with the hose










I will be leaving the selection out in the elements for about five to six weeks (until the sanding starts) and will continue to update when i can.

Some observations from my mate (likes his car clean and shiny but not a member on here or anything). He didn't know the order or the value of the products used, and was a little amused at the prices when announced.

He got the Royale as the best depth of black and gloss, Vintage next then the Secret wax and RBOE next. Then said Concours was the most bling reflection and Creme the least. Quite an interesting set of comments i thought as probably matched my own thoughts although my inside knowledge probably had a lot to do with them.

I'll let you all have a guess on which is which and then post up the correct order in a few days (there are two other people on DW who know the correct answer so can you obviously hold off for a while guys)

Apart form the order please ask away guy's (and of course girls)


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Not a clue on the order, but the middle front section gets rid of water the quickest.
Which would leave me to think it was Royale, but then not really know anything about the test wax, what it's like etc. It could be that.

I'll look forward to seeing the results though


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## giarc (Feb 8, 2006)

Top left as we look looks to sheet good, could be the angle of the water though!


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

I would say the two middle sections have some expensive waxes on


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Smashing test mate:thumb:


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## tinka (Jun 19, 2007)

im being drawn towards the bottom right as we look at it,followed by top right and bottom left,for shine and beading.


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## Kron (Aug 29, 2007)

Top middle looks to have the best reflection/clarity and sheeting.


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## Chris_4536 (Sep 20, 2006)

Who did you kill to get the royale & vintage samples!?! :O


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## Detail My Ride (Apr 19, 2006)

That an interesting test, i'd say middle bottom is the best/most expensive wax :thumb:


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Cool test, very interesting. :thumb:


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

look forward to the results, but am wondering if 5-6 weeks is really long enough to test any ***** waxes? I know mine continued to look stunning long after that, and it wasnt nearly as expensive as most of those.

will be good to see if that *does* result in any change though....and how your _mystery _wax performs.


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2007)

Chris_4536 said:


> Who did you kill to get the royale & vintage samples!?! :O


Used to come in the old "Sampler" [email protected] package


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## ron231 (Jul 30, 2007)

Why would you test the waxes on un-prepped paint? Their durability and looks on paint in that condition (pretty darn bad!) is not going to represent their durability or looks on well prepped paint.

The wax that is going to look the best on paint like that is the one with the most filling ability because remember, removing swirls does not just get rid of seeing the swirls themselves, it makes the paint more reflective because there are not 1000s of tiny scratches and abrasions diffusing the light. Thus, in your test of these waxes on badly swirled paint, the shiniest one will be the one with the most filling ability because it is making the surface more level and thus more reflective.


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## matrix_808 (Sep 22, 2007)

top right looked to be good sheeting to me.


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## matrix_808 (Sep 22, 2007)

actually i watched the video a 2nd time and im going to have to change my answer to the middle looking better.


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## GlynRS2 (Jan 21, 2006)

Difficult to tell the finishes apart from the photos, but there does seem to be a difference in the way that they repel water. A great little test :thumb:


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## Core (Sep 30, 2007)

really nice testing there!

thanks 4 that one


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Chris_4536 said:


> Who did you kill to get the royale & vintage samples!?! :O





Skinny said:


> Used to come in the old "Sampler" [email protected] package


I own a pot of Vintage and the Royale was a gift from a friend for me to compare!


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

ron231 said:


> Why would you test the waxes on un-prepped paint? Their durability and looks on paint in that condition (pretty darn bad!) is not going to represent their durability or looks on well prepped paint.
> 
> The wax that is going to look the best on paint like that is the one with the most filling ability because remember, removing swirls does not just get rid of seeing the swirls themselves, it makes the paint more reflective because there are not 1000s of tiny scratches and abrasions diffusing the light. Thus, in your test of these waxes on badly swirled paint, the shiniest one will be the one with the most filling ability because it is making the surface more level and thus more reflective.


HD Cleamse (my prep, and the only prep currently offered by *****) will have cleaned the surface up and the fillers in it will have masked a few of the lesser scratches. I did mention in the write up my reasons for the test and conditions.

I will be removing all this in 6 weeks i'd be VERY surprised if any of them didn't still look great when removed.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Interesting the spread of answers considering the difference of grade (cost) of waxes.

The beading and sheeting confirms my thoughts and also what I have been told previously.

I will do another vid in a few weeks


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

I'd be interested to see if any of the waxes attact more dust than others. I've heard that the Royale is supposed to be a bit more of a dust magnet than the vintage for example.

It'd be good to see if this is actually the case.


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## rubbishboy (May 6, 2006)

I do know the answer, but my lips are sealed for the moment. But i'd just like to put the official cost of these waxes into context.

Royale - £7118
Vintage - £1852
Concours - £164
Secret Wax - £??? but I suspect it's here.  
Creme - £46
Original Edition - £39.95 and made by some dude in his kitchen.  

For me, that's some pretty stiff competition.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

I'd like to point out that Ben correctly picked his wax from the selection of six, quite a feet (or just a lucky guess).

Also L200 Steve correctly picked Royale and Vintage!


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## hiltonig (May 3, 2007)

when will the secret wax be revealed ???? RB,S ??


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

I'll probably try to get a few more pics up, in few days and disclose the correct order, after all if nobody can tell the difference I may have saved you all a large amount of money... 

...if you only ever look at pictures of your car i suppose


Oh and the secret wax is a secret even i don't know anything about it other than the instructions for application and a rough price!!!!


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## tinka (Jun 19, 2007)

imo and it is just my opinion,i realy cant beleive that the difference in price between these,
Royale - £7118
Vintage - £1852
Concours - £164,
would equate to a massive difference visualy or durability wise,but i also dont know a great deal about it,i just cant beleive the price.


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## Thomas-182 (Mar 5, 2006)

Hmmmm them pics send my monitor mad when I look at them, not joking!!!!

EDIT Rebooted, 3 weeks without a restart :S all good now :thumb:


Nice test mate


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

tinka said:


> imo and it is just my opinion,i realy cant beleive that the difference in price between these,
> Royale - £7118
> Vintage - £1852
> Concours - £164,
> would equate to a massive difference visualy or durability wise,but i also dont know a great deal about it,i just cant beleive the price.


If you could see all three there is a massive difference (relatively!!!) between Concours and the other two, Concours being a much sharper reflection and Royale looks shinier/glossier and blacker/deeper than Vintage.

At this level you are way beyond value for money and into very deminishing returns!


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## Car Key (Mar 20, 2007)

tinka said:


> imo and it is just my opinion,i realy cant beleive that the difference in price between these,
> Royale - £7118
> Vintage - £1852
> Concours - £164,
> would equate to a massive difference visualy or durability wise,but i also dont know a great deal about it,i just cant beleive the price.


Royale and Vintage prices are for a lifetime supply, not just a single tub


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## pcc (Oct 11, 2006)

Water on the middle off the bonnet looks to hve the most surface tension but without claying and polishing its hard to tell in terms of water sheeting. Id imagine on a perfectly prepped surface it would be a bit clearer.


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## Benji_406coupe (Sep 19, 2006)

super super test epoch!

im going to have a stab here...

id say 

top left: concours
top centre: secret 
top right: creme
bottom left: destiny
bottom centre: royale
bottom right: rubbish boys

this is judging 3 pics together and taking into account beading qualites also.
myself i preffer the look of the bottom middle section..it looks to have the jetness and also a gorgeous warm reflection.

second for me would be the look of the top left - the image it reflects is crystal.

the top right looks the lesser of all sections...nothing stands out for me with the finish.

can i take a stab at the secret wax? is it megs #16?

please dont laugh if im wrong on all this guys!! slightly hard to tell without an "in the flesh" examination.

cheers, Ben.


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2007)

good guess


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Benji

In the words of Roy Walker "It's good but it's not right"

I'll get a few shots if i can get home before it goes dark tonight for an update.


Oh and the secret wax is actually a secret for me too, i have no idea who it's made buy or marketed by!!!


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## 2548 (Jul 19, 2006)

Looking forward to the next vid Epoch. Can't help wondering if it should have been 3 waxes length ways so they all got similar run off. The bottom ones will have more gravity to aid run off and have a harder life driving. Maybe I will have a go with the £100 shed thats coming in 2 weeks:thumb:


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## Benji_406coupe (Sep 19, 2006)

....darn it!!! lol if the rubbish boys is the lower-middle!!! yum! 

i agree tho with WRX, full-length strips may have been better and possibly a measured reflection test ie reflecting an object in each wax? altho even from your shots you can tell subtle differences.

cant wait to find out which one is which!! :driver:


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

I'll re- run the test again when the wet sanding and polishing has been done!

Learning all the time so will adjust the set up accordingly

The run off is something i have noticed the lower three do benifit with the increase in gradient.


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## s1mmo440 (Feb 19, 2007)

I think:-

Bottom left -Royale
Bottom centre -Vintage
Bottom Right -RB's
Top Left -Concours
Top Centre -Secret Wax
Top Right -Creme


I think Im the same as benji going off the beading and the run off, hard to tell differences in appearance in photos


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## Benji_406coupe (Sep 19, 2006)

mmmm...its a difficult one...the difference will be clearer to all when the paint is prepped.

really really hoping that bottom middle section and the one left are sub $50 waxes! lush! :thumb:


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## rubbishboy (May 6, 2006)

From looking at the pictures, I can't really see which is which, but the beading vid is what helped me decide (guestimate, I wasn't 100% sure) which was mine. But then I have spent hours on end pouring water over a test panel and know how it behaves.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

^^ Agreed Ben your's and the secret wax behave similarly on the rinse


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## PhillipM (Jun 7, 2007)

Bottom right as bens?

edit: Hah!


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## PWOOD (Apr 30, 2007)

I'm hoping the secret wax will be a cheap £15 job! I'll bet a few others on here want it to be a cheaper wax as well.

When are going to get the bit revelation.


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## glyn waxmaster (Dec 20, 2006)

i have done a similar test in the past with Royale, vintage, best in show, dodo and onyx and i have to say that i would have expected a huge difference between £30 and £7500 and yet that is not the case, yes there is a difference but not £7470 worth. Its also interesting to no apply any wax to one of the areas but just leave the paint cleaner and see how well that compares its very interesting


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## olly22n (Apr 16, 2006)

can tell i'm a newbie as they all look pretty darn good to me - certainy no £7000 difference for me!


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

*Little up date*

The Mule has now sat since the first post out exposed in the elements, moving only backwrds a few feet to allow the mini digger in the garden today (news on my detailing bay coming to a post near DW soon!!).

We've had some torential rain over the last few weeks, but today was fairly bright










I took a picture of each section to show the water marks and any dust present.

Bottom Right










Top Right










Top Centre










Bottom Centre










Bottom left










Top Left










I then washed the surface down with a ScMitt and ***** Clear on warm water, the rinsed and dried.
I then got the wife to help out taking a few video's whilst i hose the section down.

Standard hose spray



Sheeting



Fake rain



I'll announce the waxes fairly soon, as i may have a reason to sand the bonnet off sooner than i thought.

A point to note from me, it goes to show the importance of prep as some of the waxes are failing a little already!


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## A20 LEE (Feb 20, 2007)

Epoch said:


> The Mule has now sat since the first post out exposed in the elements, moving only backwrds a few feet to allow the mini digger in the garden today (news on my detailing bay coming to a post near DW soon!!).
> 
> We've had some torential rain over the last few weeks, but today was fairly bright
> 
> ...


Beading on the front centre section looked impressive.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Should probably mention it's my, nearly two year old, daughter who didn't think i should be spraying the water in the third video!!


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

A20 LEE said:


> Beading on the front centre section looked impressive.


And the sheeting is fantastic, so much quicker than the rest


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

I think it's a combination of the other two on the bottom being slow to sheet and the increase gradient that may be helping.

The top left and centre appeared fastest sheeters to me.

When the bonnet is prepped i'm gonna do this again with the panels running from top to bottom to help the gradient effect.


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## GlynRS2 (Jan 21, 2006)

That is some seriously impressive sheeting. The bottom two outer samples seem to be worst, but the other 4 sectors do appear to be extremely good leaving no water on the car :thumb:


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

GlynRS2 said:


> That is some seriously impressive sheeting. The bottom two outer samples seem to be worst, but the other 4 sectors do appear to be extremely good leaving no water on the car :thumb:


They do clear very thoroughly they seam just a little slow to fully sheet. Sort of a slow motion of the others!


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## rubbishboy (May 6, 2006)

Just an observation, looking at the way the water flows, IMO the outer sections are also having to deal with a bit more water. Run off from the top section and also from the middle as it doesn't just flow straight down.


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## olly22n (Apr 16, 2006)

second that, the top panels will always dry faster as they only have to deal with their own water...


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Right peeps,

No pics today as was in a bit of a rush when i got home, but the bonnet has now been VERY well prepped and this little test ended.

Here is the correct allocation of which wax where

Have a play with the video's and make of it what you will.










Lessions for me, no point spending any money unless you prep the surface properly

Clay and Paint cleanse at least!

Seams obvious, but wonder waxes do not exist it's all about the canvas for the wax to work on.


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## GlynRS2 (Jan 21, 2006)

Epoch said:


> Lessons for me, no point spending any money unless you prep the surface properly
> 
> Clay and Paint cleanse at least!
> 
> Seams obvious, but wonder waxes do not exist it's all about the canvas for the wax to work on.


I would go along with that :thumb:


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

The Big Z set do seem to part water like Moses though


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Epoch said:


> Lessions for me, no point spending any money unless you prep the surface properly
> 
> Clay and Paint cleanse at least!
> 
> *Seams obvious, but wonder waxes do not exist it's all about the canvas for the wax to work on.*


Very true indeed!! :thumb:

And to be very honest, if anyone was thinking about spending upwards of £100 on a wax, I'd strongly recommend the money be invested in a machine polisher instead (if one not already owned) owing to the far more tangible results they produce... if anything, it means anyone would get more from any further expensive wax investments.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

However after seeing Royale on about the best prepped surface i have ever seen, it does produce a rather special look


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Epoch said:


> However after seeing Royale on about the best prepped surface i have ever seen, it does produce a rather special look


I'll go along with that. It even looked alright on the rather ropey bit I did with PC


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

L200 Steve said:


> I'll go along with that. It even looked alright on the rather ropey bit I did with PC


I think Matt went over that with 85RD

Should make for a great video, you back on the PC!


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Epoch said:


> I think Matt went over that with 85RD
> 
> Should make for a great video, you back on the PC!


IIRC you all ganged up on me and made me 85RD that section over with the Makita.


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## Epoch (Jul 30, 2006)

Oh yeah, it was only fair that you did some rotary polishing/tuition today.


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