# Cars - Reliable aren’t they ?



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Following on from another thread about cars, reliability and owners maintaining them I thought I'd start a thread about what we see, now we are not a main dealer or a specialist, we do however fit tyres, mot and carry out service and within reason mechanical work

I'm not on the tools but I am that person who will call you and give you bad news.

So we will keep the first one simple, an mot failure on brakes. Now it's fairly common for cars to fail on pad thickness but discs, it's very very rare.

These however failed, it's the result of s sticking caliper which most likely seized from not be stripped and cleaned.










Looks thin ? Let's see it from another angle....


----------



## 91davidw (May 6, 2006)

That's bad but think I can go one better, seized caliper sliders and had worn through the pad and the pad backing plate !! 
Last photo my thumb shows how thick the disc should be.




























Cheers 
David


----------



## rob267 (Nov 27, 2015)

Holy crap. Both examples ^^^ are ridiculous. 
How the hell to people not notice when driving? 

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk


----------



## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Those are unbelievable!!! Not surprising at all though, as most people are completely oblivious to problems if the car is still moving. 

Keep em coming!!

Cheers

Cooks

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## SteveW (Feb 21, 2006)

Those are both shocking! As has been said, surely people notice the noise if nothing else?

Or do people really just turn the stereo up and ignore it?

I have to investigate ANY strange noise, shake, judder etc straight away whenever I hear or feel something different on my cars. Once I know _what_ it is, I can then decide if it requires immediate action or can wait - but I usually get it sorted ASAP even if it's not a critical problem.


----------



## President Swirl (Oct 23, 2011)

I think the problem with a lack of mechanical sympathy or knowledge stems from the prevalence of lease cars. Now granted, the examples shown are I'm sure from older cars, but there's no pride of ownership, it's a white good that will go back in 3 years. Not my problem Guv.
I'd even go as far as to say that people must know something's up, they just don't give a damn. See it all the time with horrendous tyres, and extraneous panels causing a risk to others. It extends beyond cars to all aspects as well. Don't get me started on litter next to bins. It's part of a sociopathic nature amongst selfish ignorant people who will ultimately cause our demise. I'll have my pills now Nurse Ratchet.


----------



## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

President Swirl said:


> I think the problem with a lack of mechanical sympathy or knowledge stems from the prevalence of lease cars.


I agree but I'd probably say it even goes beyond lease cars but just the general accessibility and in turn disposable attitude towards cars.

I'm 38 now but even in my early years of driving, 99-2004-ish it seemed that finance was just an easy option. HP in the main part but obviously you then have the arrival of PCP and other options. So even back then people I knew were driving brand new cars with no intention of keeping them so the love of the car wasn't there. They didn't see £10k go out of their account, they saw £200 a month, it's just another bill.

I know that doesn't go for every person who opts for this kind of finance but I do think for many who only see a car as a 2-4 year commitment they don't seem to care and think the dealer will just take care of it.

Every car I've owned, I have treated as if I'll be keeping it forever. I enjoy the car but ultimately I see it as something to be looked after and in return will look after me not something I'll just give back and not give a sh!t about.


----------



## JB052 (Mar 22, 2008)

Fully agree with comments in above posts. However there is another side to this which is a distrust of what some garages are telling customers.

My mother in law paid a Peugeot main dealership to change her brake pads and discs recently after they advised her that they were 50% worn and might not make it to the next service. 

But yes, examples shown by Steve and David are amazing and very worrying.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

People want to do the bare minimum. If the car drives that's enough. 

The MOT is the only time they are forced to do anything.


----------



## TakDetails (Apr 25, 2020)

Good thread.
Those disc pics are awful. Some people must be completely oblivious.

It’ll be interesting what your place sees from time to time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Funny isn't it. People will spend thousands in finance on a massive telly, yet spend naff all on the thing on their drive that will kill them in an instant if it goes wrong.


----------



## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Absolutely shocking, people just don’t care or are ignorant to these types of issues and there seems to be no pride in keeping their cars in tip top condition.


----------



## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

> People want to do the bare minimum.


That's what regulations are though.

Pad thickness, disk thickness, tread depth.

Does anyone change any parts when there is still plenty of life left?

Without any knowledge I have no idea how long it took that disc to wear after the caliper seized up.


----------



## 91davidw (May 6, 2006)

Been looking for these photos since lastnight. lol
Update with abit of background info,

Call can you look at my brakes as they're making a noise. 
Me sure not today (Fri) but call in tomorrow (Sat) anytime before 12. 
Sat was a no show.
Fast forward 4 weeks roughly. 
Call I think my brakes are cracked ? 
Me what do you mean cracked explain it to me. 
Theres a crack in the disc ! 
Me a crack in the brake disc, can you send me a photo ? 
Sure. 
6pm that night the photos landed on my phone.

I called straight back " DO NOT DRIVE THAT CAR, I'll collect it now "
Getting a m8 to take me to collect the car it was about 8pm. 
When we got there they had been out to the shops even with me telling them not to drive.



















Those are the photos sent to my phone.

Cheers 
David


----------



## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

Tyres are the one that cracks me up. People will spend good money on rims but not rubber. Driving on ditchfinders should be criminal. I’ve replaced tyres in pairs as well. Frustrating when fairly new and an unrepairable puncture.


----------



## Ctreanor13 (May 1, 2019)

Brakes seem to be a common issue. This is of a friend's Audi, asked me to have a look. They thought the rear pads were shot as the car was 'making a noise'. Had 1 quick look and was able to diagnose the problem.

Front pads and disks were promptly changed. Calipers were fine and problem seemed to happen quickly and has been fine since. I think cheap pads were used.

The pad material had come away at the rivets and completely separated. All others were fine apart from this one


----------



## JoeyJoeJo (Jan 3, 2014)

A long long time ago I had a brake disk break and basically had a pie shaped segment detach from the rest. The garage had never seen anything like it and after checking things out determined that one of the pistons had restricted movement so while it wasn't rubbing, the pressure was uneven causing stresses that killed it.

Proper brown trouser moment at 60mph and had to use engine braking and handbrake to get under control and was very lucky. Always super cautious since, replacing consumables well ahead of schedule. 

Same with tyres, while cheap may be perfectly fine, I prefer to spend more, when I buy something like that, I don't want there to have been at any point in it's production cycle, a room full of suits asking "how can we make this cheaper?". I don't want them to meet safety standards, I ant them to surpass them by a massive degree. It's like buying a cheap crash helmet.


----------



## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

None of it surprises me a jot.

The mechanics of this world will no doubt tell you of the times they have a person rock up in a relatively new car BMW etc, even fairly rabid ones- M3s and the like, all on finance of course, only the thing will be on a random assortment of different tyres, often worn well below the wear indicators??

Same with older cars, non-existent discs/pads. Windscreen wipers disintegrated and nearly scratching the windscreen, bulbs gone etc etc etc.

People seem able to afford £50 a month for an iphone and the stonking monthly bill for a leased car but unable to maintain it?

What I would like to know is how these cars manage to pass an MOT, are they even serviced properly or just MOT'ed by their mate who will pass anything on a Saturday morning?

Mind you, some people don't seem to have a care in the world when it comes to cars and no mechanical sympathy. A couple of months ago a woman at work found her car refused to start for her journey home at 8pm that evening. Noticed the gaggle of folk in the car park so wandered over, relatively new Pug hatchback, got my jump leads out few seconds later and it started. Off she hops ecstatic the car isn't dead after all, imagine my surprise when she shuts the door and doots off down the road at about 5000rpm... a modern little HDI diesel and you're caning it at redline nearly from cold??? Ok...

Had an ex-girlfriend who was just as bad mind. Had one of those old petrol Rav4s- complains her car isn't going that well so we swapped cars for the day and I took it to my uncles garage to have it serviced knowing full well that last service had been on: *shrugs shoulders*.

Air filter contained a long vacated mouse nest and looked dustier than a hoover bag, brake pads thinner than stanley knife blades and spark plugs that wanted changing 40,000 miles ago. Surprisingly the engine oil looked ok. Some people do have em.


----------



## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

MDC250 said:


> Tyres are the one that cracks me up. People will spend good money on rims but not rubber. Driving on ditchfinders should be criminal. I've replaced tyres in pairs as well. Frustrating when fairly new and an unrepairable puncture.


Totally disagree. Ive spent my entire 33yrs driving on cheap tyres. First probably 10yrs on part worns then I changed jobs that required driving so I bought new but just get the cheapest on offer. Never had any issues, which includes some pretty horrific weather conditions including snow up here in N Wales. I'd rather spend £55 on a tyre and check condition and pressures weekly unlike some that will buy the most expensive Michelin and never bother with them until a garage tells them the inside edge has gone or they're 10psi under inflated etc.


----------



## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

Each to their own mate. There’s a reason a cheap tyre is cheap. The independent tests done on them are all obviously fictitious.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Andy from Sandy said:


> That's what regulations are though.
> 
> Pad thickness, disk thickness, tread depth.
> 
> ...


To clarify my point, people will only spend money when they are forced.

It's only once their car has been deemed unfit for the road at the MOT, or something finally fails, will they spend money. The car was unroadworthy long before the MOT forced them to repair the car


----------



## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

ollienoclue said:


> None of it surprises me a jot.
> 
> The mechanics of this world will no doubt tell you of the times they have a person rock up in a relatively new car BMW etc, even fairly rabid ones- M3s and the like, all on finance of course, only the thing will be on a random assortment of different tyres, often worn well below the wear indicators??


I went to look at a 2017 Audi A5 3.0tdi quattro a few weeks back, at a local, but large, NI dealer. Lovely car. But had 3 different brands of tyre fitted, all of which I had never heard of in my life. I walked away.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## MDC250 (Jan 4, 2014)

I was a little upset that the manufacturing weeks were different on the last set of tyres I replaced


----------



## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

People always ask “ how did it pass mot.” 
Mot is against absolute minimum standards, a car that passes mot can be in less than an hour not be roadworthy.

The quality of the parts is not what they use to be, when I did my apprenticeship we hardly changed discs and drums (1975) 
Asbestos brake pads are friendlier to disc, fair enough, but people where technically more saviour.
Most drivers could change a wheel, check their oil and coolant, and kept an eye on tyre pressure.
Service intervals where much shorter, my first car was every 3k oilchange and 6k a main service with filters, valve setting and breaker points and spark plugs.
The wheels and brakes would be serviced and checked every 6 k
My current car is about 12 k between services and spark plugs every 80k.

While it annoys me when the garage phones me if the original brake pads are at 80k a50% worn, do I want them replaced?
However if a customer wears a set down to 50% in one service, I would advise to replace them at that point. 
Horses for courses.


----------



## The happy goat (Jun 26, 2019)

Cookies said:


> I went to look at a 2017 Audi A5 3.0tdi quattro a few weeks back, at a local, but large, NI dealer. Lovely car. But had 3 different brands of tyre fitted, all of which I had never heard of in my life. I walked away.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


I look at the tyres and if its got a good brand I think good tyres the owner wouldn't have scrimped on the servicing. Funny isn't it?


----------



## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Brakes and tyres.

The last things between you and life changing injuries and/or the memories and nightmares of what you did to someone else or their children/parents etc. etc. because you couldn't slow down or stop as well as you could have done with quality, well serviced kit.

When was the last time you saw cleaning and lubricating slider pins on brake calipers in a service schedule? Wait till they seize then fit new ones (plus discs) at £££££'s seems to be the Dealer way. All part of the "keep running costs down" mantra. Short term gain, long term - who cares.....

But yes, fully agree that cars are now seen as "white goods" to be used and forgotten about. I've always been unhappy about company cars as their drivers seem to have a different version of the Highway Code to the rest of us. Particularly for speed limits and stopping distances. It isn't their car, paid for out of their earnings so it doesn't cost them if they - to coin a phrase - drive it like they stole it. PCP appears to have extended this mind set quite dramatically. Why should anyone care? I'm on to the next car in 2-3 years anyway.

And I know of well educated folks who genuinely have no idea where the bonnet release is, how to check tyre pressures etc. etc. Apparently the Dealer does it once a year - including filling up the windscreen washer bottle .

Maybe the quicker we get automated, driverless, cars the better .

Oh dear, that sounds like a proper grumpy old man rant :lol:

Andy.


----------



## The happy goat (Jun 26, 2019)

AndyN01 said:


> Brakes and tyres.
> 
> The last things between you and life changing injuries and/or the memories and nightmares of what you did to someone else or their children/parents etc. etc. because you couldn't slow down or stop as well as you could have done with quality, well serviced kit.
> 
> ...


Grumpy no realistic yes! I'm a company car drive and i treat the car like it was my own but i know what you mean!


----------



## JordanE (Jun 26, 2013)

Does every thread on this forum have to circle around ****ing finance and pcp. 
Never heard so much ball **** in my life. 

It matters not how the car is paid. It’s a personality trait. 
People will either like their car and care for it. Or it’s an A to B and that’s it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Tyres, funny old things. We only stock budgets - good quality budgets but not RoadX, Churchills, Black Lions .... If i ever made my own budgets i'd call them death grips or stickysheetyrubbers ...

So, tyres, someone calls, 
i want new tyres, 
ok what do you want ? 
I don't want budgets, i want something midrange
On to t'internet check supplier prices - add fitting cost and come up with some prices (we make the same price on a £25 tyre or a £300 tyre

ok, so Goodyears £60, Avons £45, Budgets £30

erm .... i'll go for the budgets.

Personally i'd always fit a branded tyre, however i'd rather fit a budget tyre over a branded part worn.


This happens every time some asks for mid range. you know full well they want the cheapest tyre. Very few want branded tyres, you can usually guess who wants what. The same applies to servicing, some want genuine parts, some don't care less. Although for servicing we will only use Bosch, Mann occasionally WIX or oem.


----------



## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

So, part worn tyres......

Do people regularly throw away quality used tyres with a decent amount of tread on them?

Or is the source of these tyres often from cars that have been written off in an accident?

And if it is the latter, what checks are there (outside of a visual inspection) on these tyres?

Please don't get me started on budget tyres....


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Most people change there tyres because they have to, either they have failed the MOT ot there dad has told them too. We get people that call in for a tyre check, if they are 3mm and its winter we would suggest they change them soon, if however its May and they cover 3000 miles a year then we tell them to come back in September.

Inner edge wear catches most people out.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I would never scrimp on tyres. It's always one the best brands with zero exceptions. Good tyres make a massive difference to a car. 

I'd never buy part worn tyres. I know someone will start the you get used tyres with a used car, but hardly anyone sells used tyres for no reason. You hope the used tyre on a used car are in the same condition as the rest of the car. 

Part worn tyres are someone else's rejects. I read most are tyres that are not fit for purpose in Germany when they have to replace tyres.


----------



## Ctreanor13 (May 1, 2019)

Kerr said:


> I would never scrimp on tyres. It's always one the best brands with zero exceptions. Good tyres make a massive difference to a car.
> 
> I'd never buy part worn tyres. I know someone will start the you get used tyres with a used car, but hardly anyone sells used tyres for no reason. You hope the used tyre on a used car are in the same condition as the rest of the car.
> 
> Part worn tyres are someone else's rejects. I read most are tyres that are not fit for purpose in Germany when they have to replace tyres.


I was always led to believe the part worns that come from Germany are because they have to replace all 4 tyres even if 3 have only seen 100 miles and the 4th gets a puncture.. no idea how true it is. I have only ever bought them once for a van as I needed the correct load rating just for the test as I was replacing the wheels and tyres altogether afterwards. I think the part worns were £50 for the 4 and we're 2 sets of 2 matching tyres


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Ctreanor13 said:


> I was always led to believe the part worns that come from Germany are because they have to replace all 4 tyres even if 3 have only seen 100 miles and the 4th gets a puncture.. no idea how true it is. I have only ever bought them once for a van as I needed the correct load rating just for the test as I was replacing the wheels and tyres altogether afterwards. I think the part worns were £50 for the 4 and we're 2 sets of 2 matching tyres


They have to replace tyres on the same axle, but not all four.

It still doesn't account for the amount of part worn tyres we get here. The pairs of part worn tyres we end up with are mismatched and repairs that aren't fit for elsewhere.

They aren't cheap either. Factor in tread depth left and fitting costs and it's often false economy.


----------



## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

Part worns are mainly imported from the continent, in Germany if a car is involved in an accident the replace all tyres, as required by the insurance.
Tyres of write off’s get sold for export.
Also a lot part worns are winter tyres, below 4-5 mm tread they loose their effectiveness and get discarded, and exported. 

Also if you do daily 200 km/h on the Autobahn, you are not skimming on a pair of tyres, you want to be sure they have all the grip you need.
I replace my tyres at 4 mm or 5 years whatever comes first. 
It’s safety, it is the only contact between the road and the car, and on them few square centimetres there is a lot of force and a lot relaying on.
Buy good quality tyres, and yes you pay for a main brand, but is it because they make and made rubbish tyres, or have they become a main brand by selling top quality?


----------



## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

And coming back to car reliability......

The latest Consumers Association Which? report makes interesting reading.

With all the usual caveats about surveys etc. but I've more faith in this one simply because, historically, Which? tends to be pretty close on whatever goods you buy.

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/new-and-used-cars/article/car-reliability/most-reliable-cars-adRx52m7zuhV#most-reliable-new-cars

There's a few "really?" "from that manufacturer?" and some "well there's no surprise there!" results.

Looking at the 0-3 years old category and current cars:

Tesla models S & X only get 1 star (out of 5)

Current model Volvo's get 2 or 3 stars

The "best" Land Rover gets just 2 stars

Not a single Audi, BMW, Ford, Honda(!), Mercedes, Seat, Skoda or VW get 5/5. :doublesho

There's only a handful of models that 5/5:

Hyundai i20; KIA Stonic; Lexus CT200h & RX; Mazda CX3 & MX5 & MX5RH; Mini Clubman; Toyota Auris Hybrid & Prius & Prius plug in & RAV 4 & Yaris & Yaris Hybrid; Vauxhall Crossland X and that's it.

And if we go to the 3-8 year old category with 5/5 it's:

BMW X1 (09-15); Not one I was expecting - Citroen Berlingo (08-18); Honda Civic Tourer (14-18); Lexus - wait for it - CT200h & GS & IS & NX & RX (09-15); Nissan Leaf (11-17); Peugeot 108; Suzuki Swift (10-16) & SX4 & Vitara and the last manufacturer with 5/5 is - no prizes for guessing - Toyota: Auris (13-19) & Auris Touring hybrid & Aygo & Prius (09-16) & RAV4 (16-18).

The only models that get the full 5 stars for 0-3 and 3-8 years old are both Lexus - CT200h and RX. :thumb:

Make of that what you will.

Andy.


----------



## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I agree it is the signature of the disposable consumer item, 'not my problem mindset'.

Any vehicle I have ever owned or had the use of (company truck for many years) I always treated properly because I knew full well that abusing it was foolhardy since it was my own safety or that of the wife/family that would be affected. It just isn't in my nature to abuse machinery and never has been. When you've been in or operated machinery worth 6 figures and one false move could mean you obliterate that people-carrier family of 6 it concentrates the mind.

I have always expected the garage that maintained our cars to pipe and say if something needed doing. Not just MOT it and say nothing. Perhaps these folk are just MOTing the cars and leaving it at that?

Oh, and Which and JD power etc, I'm never sure these are that hot for reliability. What kind of person would submit data to these and what constitutes a fault? You hop in the car one day and the sat nav won't load or the engine turns over and seizes 2 minutes later?

As for part worn tyres, I have never been offered any for sale and would have no idea where to even get them.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

The difference between garages and what needs to be done will obviously vary, for us - well me i'd treat a customers car the same as my own. If something needs doing i'll tell them, however if it doesn't then i won't. You can see from a cars MOT history how many miles its covering, so there is no point in suggesting customers replace brakes or tyres on a car that looks like it will cover another 7500 miles when they only cover 2000 miles in a year, we are also that busy that we don't have the time to be able to fit in extra work, for us we can carry out 8 mot's a day, we allow 1 hour if 4 tyres need fitting, for brakes its 1 hour for discs and pads unless its a big lump such as a Discovery, for the we allow 1.5 hours.

We see a number of cars that suffer from similar problems,

Fords - Focus Mk2 suffer with front lower arms, Coil Springs - various models
Mercs - wheel bearing play (they are adjustable) corroded brake pipes and suspension arms
French - Pug/Citroen - exhaust hangers, CV boots, lower arms, Bulbs, inner/outer rack ends
Renaults - CV boots and handbrakes
Vauxhall - Rear trailing arm bushes (zafira) brake pipes - Vectra, brake calipers - Vivaro, coil springs - most models
Hondas - Suspension, ball joints inner/outer rack ends, Emissions
VAG - Headlights (Golf) Exhaust (centre sleeve) Shock absorbers, Brake calipers - mostly rear, airbag warnings, Coil springs, Wheel Bearings, front suspension - double wishbone on A4/6's

Most common failures are tyres, CV boots, anti roll bar links, screen wash


----------



## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

ollienoclue said:


> I agree it is the signature of the disposable consumer item, 'not my problem mindset'.......
> 
> Oh, and Which and JD power etc, I'm never sure these are that hot for reliability. What kind of person would submit data to these and what constitutes a fault? You hop in the car one day and the sat nav won't load or the engine turns over and seizes 2 minutes later?....


Thanks.

The "everything is someone else's fault/problem" is now so securely fixed in the average mindset what would make cars any different? Even better if you can sue someone and get a few £££'s.

As far as I'm concerned it's completely the wrong way to look at it but there you go.

AFAIK the Which survey is completed by Which subscribers/members. I can't imagine that they are the most lenient of folks when it comes to a product working, or not. But as some cars come out with a maximum score then it can't be just the disgruntled and moaners that fill in the survey. Also, I tend to distrust articles etc. where there is the possibility of, say, advertising revenue at stake. He who pays the piper.... Which? don't accept any advertising.

Andy.


----------



## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

SteveTDCi said:


> .....
> VAG - ... Brake calipers - mostly rear,


Now that's really bizarre .

My Passat had issues with..... A rear brake caliper. And 'cus they were the electronic handbrake ones they cost around £500 each, plus fitting, plus setting up with the software. 

Cheers Steve. Great to have all that info from someone at the coal face who actually does the work.

Andy.


----------



## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

JordanE said:


> Does every thread on this forum have to circle around ****ing finance and pcp.
> Never heard so much ball **** in my life.
> 
> It matters not how the car is paid. It's a personality trait.
> People will either like their car and care for it. Or it's an A to B and that's it.


No one was making a dig at those that use finance or PCP to obtain a car. The point that's been made about the mentality of SOME drivers who have no intention of ever owning the car is that there's then little concern over the longevity of the vehicle.

As I said on my post, every car I've ever had (financed or not) has been treated as if I'll keep it forever. So of course it doesn't apply to every person with a PCP deal. But, there is a mentality of how disposable a car is and doing the bare minimum to have a car on the road.

So I'd disagree and say that the mindset of how disposable cars are can come with the fact that someone who leases or uses PCP has no intention of keeping the car long term.

Of course it doesn't apply to every single driver so you do have to keep it in context.


----------



## Richors (Apr 29, 2007)

Interesting thread. 
A lot to be said for using known Independents over main dealers though I know with warranty and lease etc this isn't always possible.
A good indy in my view will, for example, clean caliper sliders etc on a brake service whereas dealers usually only do if there is a problem for time reasons I imagine.
This is a forum for folk who obviously care about cars...……….not sure the bulk of the population do to any great degree and most are utility vehicles...….?


----------



## mbarn (Mar 2, 2019)

JordanE said:


> Does every thread on this forum have to circle around ****ing finance and pcp.
> Never heard so much ball **** in my life.
> 
> It matters not how the car is paid. It's a personality trait.
> ...


I personally agree with the part about people liking cars will look after them, irrelevant of payment method, but they are in the minority. Insurance companies see pcp/lease cars as higher risk, as you'll find it costs more to insure a pcp/lease car than one you fully own. That would indicate that people who finance don't look after or drive the cars as safely as full owners


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

A massive sweeping generalisation about people who lease / PCP their cars taking less care of the vehicle - anyone got any data to back it up?

I have owned cars outright, used PCP, had company cars and leased- they have all been very well looked after, no difference whatsoever in how well looked after they were

As for cars being more expensive to insure when leased / PCP'd - not in my experience and again I would be interested to see the evidence

Its much more down to the individual and the nature of the throwaway society that we have created


----------



## JoeyJoeJo (Jan 3, 2014)

I've never been asked if I own a car outright or if there's a finance arrangement of some type for insurance


----------



## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

> A lot to be said for using known Independents over main dealers


I would expect a dealer to inform a customer that a part needs changing right this minute.

I would expect an indy to point out how long a part has left before it needs changing.


----------



## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

It’s not that black and white.
Main dealers = bad
Indies = good
My Lexus dealer is spot on, get a good service and discuss things, yes they don’t repair calliper sliders as at £120,- an hour it’s cheaper to bung a new one on, and last another 7 years.

There are Indies that bodge, overcharge, and lie. 

It’s finding the correct garage for the job, and people who you can trust.

Sometimes repairing is not cost effective, and replacing saves in the long time money, 
Sometimes is a new part cheaper in the long run than something from a breaker.

It’s all balance, and the correct choices.


----------



## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

Caledoniandream said:


> It's not that black and white.
> Main dealers = bad
> Indies = good
> My Lexus dealer is spot on, get a good service and discuss things, yes they don't repair calliper sliders as at £120,- an hour it's cheaper to bung a new one on, and last another 7 years.
> ...


Absolutely this^. Well said.

And the same applies to "back street" garages. There are good and bad.


----------



## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

I'm with @andy665 on this one :thumb:

I have owned new cars via PCP / lease / cash purchases and look & looked after them all the same way
We are all different & I respect people who just use they car for A to B & don't give a  about it. All I ask in return is people respect how I look after my cars, regardless of how I pay for it

Whenever I've insured a car I've never been asked how I purchased it. Its a new one on me that insurance costs are based on the how you purchase a car


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I find people - well the ones we see will do the bare minimum when the car is on pcp, if you tell them the car needs tyres and brakes they will usually say the car is going back in a few months. Mind you you also get something similar with other customers where you advise them something needs doing but they are selling the car, then12 months later they are booking it back in for an mot, which usually leads it to failing on the work you advised months ago.

You get to learn the customers and know when your wasting your time.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Let's have another picture, this time a 1.6 Golf, 2017 and 80k, so short of a timing belt change.

It appears the waterpump failed- we have seen a couple now




























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

> It's not that black and white.


No it's not but further:



> A good indy in my view will, for example, clean caliper sliders etc on a brake service whereas dealers usually only do if there is a problem for time reasons I imagine.


You know dealers have a system that specifies the work to be done and the time it takes to do it. A lot of independents also have access to similar systems. So if the job calls for the sliders to be greased there is time to do it.

The fact the statement ends with "I imagine" implies no real knowledge.


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Andy from Sandy said:


> No it's not but further:
> 
> You know dealers have a system that specifies the work to be done and the time it takes to do it. A lot of independents also have access to similar systems. So if the job calls for the sliders to be greased there is time to do it.
> 
> The fact the statement ends with "I imagine" implies no real knowledge.


The way franchised dealers work (based on 25+ years in the industry)

Technician gets paid basic salary for completing 37.5 hours of "book" work

Book says it takes 2 hours to do a job

Technician takes 1 5 hours to complete the job

Technician now has 0.5 hours in the bag that he can sell back to the employer at overtime rates

Multiply out the jobs and "time saved" by the technician and its easy to understand why corners may be cut


----------



## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

andy665 said:


> The way franchised dealers work (based on 25+ years in the industry)
> 
> Technician gets paid basic salary for completing 37.5 hours of "book" work
> 
> ...


That's always been the case, when I started my apprenticeship in 1977 at Toyota we had books with the time code for every job.
And you could do a 37 hour week in less than 4 days if they gave you the right jobs.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I have an issue with the way garages charge customers for labour. They do bill customers for the book time labour even though they didn't actually spend that amount of time on their car. 

If you got a painter around to the house and he charged 10 hours labour for an 8 hour shift you'd rightly challenge that. With the rates garages charge the extra 1 hour labour that wasn't used is a significant amount of money.


----------



## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

> The way franchised dealers work (based on 25+ years in the industry)


Would that include not carryout some item on the job card just to get ahead?



> I have an issue...


Just occasionally some bolt or other just will not shift. Having been quoted a firm price for a job I wouldn't then expect the garage to call me with a requirement to increase the labour charge but I do get your point.


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Andy from Sandy said:


> Would that include not carryout some item on the job card just to get ahead?


Depends on the honesty of the Technicians and Workshop Manager


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Kerr said:


> I have an issue with the way garages charge customers for labour. They do bill customers for the book time labour even though they didn't actually spend that amount of time on their car.
> 
> If you got a painter around to the house and he charged 10 hours labour for an 8 hour shift you'd rightly challenge that. With the rates garages charge the extra 1 hour labour that wasn't used is a significant amount of money.


Depends, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, or if its something you never done before.

As an example, Lets say to change the spring on a Ford Focus, I'd charge one hour labour, book time might be more, but by the time you have the car on the ramp, found the locking wheel nut, got the wheel off shock off and stripped it could be between 0.5 hours and 1.0 hour, some come apart easy, some have covered 100k, some are 15 years old, all make a difference.

Now lets say a drop link needs replacing, book time might say 0,75 hrs, thats assuming you need to start from driving it on the ramp, however given you would need to disconnect it then I wouldn't charge any labour for fitting it as you are removing it as part of the job.

Other examples are where you know book time is wrong, on a certain job book says 2.6 hours, in reality the job takes 4 hours if everything goes ok. So we charge 4 hours. If a customer can get it done cheaper then I suggest they go there.

You will also get the opposite where book will say 5 hours, it takes 3, in which case we will charge 3. I'd rather turn work away than cut a corner.

Its one area where a specialist wins, they see the same type of car day in, day out carrying out the same jobs so they can work out quicker ways of doing something.


----------



## Ctreanor13 (May 1, 2019)

As Steve said, on a Golf owners group on Facebook, there was a lady who worked for a VW specialist for 15 years and admitted that some jobs can be done quicker than book time as they had little tricks or alternative methods that does the task up. 

I never ask my mechanic how long things took. If something needs done, I know he'll do it and never send a half arsed job out as it's his name and reputation on the line. He has replaced brake disks that warped on parents car for free as he said they're still under their warranty. I think his labour rate is around €35 an hour. Some find this expensive but as a VAT registered, insured garage, I'm paying for his time, knowledge, experience etc as well as him needing to cover staff and overheads.


----------



## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

My dad had his own garage in a village. Folk would pop in for new headlight bulb and he would replace it and not charge. Obviously a while ago when changing a bulb was a 30sec job! I also remember when cars were collected he'd be telling the customers what extra things he'd done for them free of charge. Like he said, plenty of other garages available so a little goodwill meant they'd be back when the gearbox was falling out etc.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Ctreanor13 said:


> As Steve said, on a Golf owners group on Facebook, there was a lady who worked for a VW specialist for 15 years and admitted that some jobs can be done quicker than book time as they had little tricks or alternative methods that does the task up.
> 
> I never ask my mechanic how long things took. If something needs done, I know he'll do it and never send a half arsed job out as it's his name and reputation on the line. He has replaced brake disks that warped on parents car for free as he said they're still under their warranty. I think his labour rate is around €35 an hour. Some find this expensive but as a VAT registered, insured garage, I'm paying for his time, knowledge, experience etc as well as him needing to cover staff and overheads.


Similar to us, we won't fit a certain manufactures disc unless we have to, occasionally we have an issue, as far as the customer is concerned they drop the car off and pick it up, if its under warranty then its down to us to sort out.


----------



## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

As you know you can work on cars under manufacturers' warranty so long as you use the OEM part.

Are you saying however you will not for example fit a VW disc or are you maybe referring to a 3rd party manufacturer?


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

We wouldn't fit a certain aftermarket disc, VW parts are ok, occasionally you can get 4 plus parts which work out cheaper, we can also fit genuine ford parts cheaper than some aftermarket.


----------



## mbarn (Mar 2, 2019)

andy665 said:


> A massive sweeping generalisation about people who lease / PCP their cars taking less care of the vehicle - anyone got any data to back it up?
> 
> I have owned cars outright, used PCP, had company cars and leased- they have all been very well looked after, no difference whatsoever in how well looked after they were
> 
> ...


There are many aspects which affect car insurance for some and not others, so I can understand that it may not have been an issue for all. 
Leasing, in my personal experience is more expensive to insure than owned. How do I know - because I read about it and decided to do two compare quotes for the same car on the same day, with all other details identical when purchasing.

I'd also suggest we are not really the right audience on this forum, as we naturally care for items we "own" or we wouldn't be here. Maybe we should ask the people who visit the hand car washes in their leased vehicles


----------



## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

Coming back to Which? surveys, they don't fill me with confidence because I have a high level of suspicion regarding the kind of people who subscribe to them. I used to work with a couple of accountants who knew the cost of everything but the true value of fudge all and they were always extoling the virtues of this Which? platform and in their office gaggle would talk about how they wouldn't even buy loo roll without consulting their consumer goods Bible etc etc.

Fast forward a bit and it was the middle of winter and one of the morons was complaining that the folding mirrors on his car (X5 I think) wouldn't work. The fact it was -3 and frozen to fudge didn't seem to register he was convinced they were broken and was asking if he should contact the dealer to sort them under warranty.

This leads me to suspect that what constitutes a fault is thus highly subjective. The trade itself which vehicles are reliable but also which issues each model and make can experience. Some garages also know how to mitigate or avoid these things through basic maintenance (like putting grease on bonnet latches or something) or changing parts ahead of time when a particular mileage is reached. Does this make a car 'unreliable' then?


----------



## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

PugIain said:


> Funny isn't it. People will spend thousands in finance on a massive telly, yet spend naff all on the thing on their drive that will kill them in an instant if it goes wrong.


I don't understand it either.

A geezer rocks up in a car that's costing him hundreds of pounds per month to finance and an iphone that costs £60 a month yet apparently doesn't believe tyres or maintenance/consumables on his car are worthwhile or he otherwise can't afford them maybe? The thought of being in a powerful (particularly rear drive) car in the winter with tyres that are below the wear markers would unnerve me personally to the point I'd be hesitant to drive it at all.


----------



## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

The local guy here that does tyres tells me about two incidents. The first person tells of a relative has nearly killed himself as his car skidded off the road. Tyres were below legal limit. The next is a guy gets clobbered for illegal tyres.

He says these people are coming to me and expecting me to be on their side. I sell tyres, I have no sympathy. I have plenty of stories of cars that have left the road for worn out tyres.


----------



## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

andy665 said:


> A massive sweeping generalisation about people who lease / PCP their cars taking less care of the vehicle - anyone got any data to back it up?
> 
> I have owned cars outright, used PCP, had company cars and leased- they have all been very well looked after, no difference whatsoever in how well looked after they were


I doubt there is any specific data that says there are more mechanical failures or obviously abused cars that were on some kind of finance compared to cars bought outright.

By the very nature of you being part of a detailing forum, that gives an indication to any of us that you clearly have more of an interest in cars than the average person on the street. I have had a couple of cars on HP and like you, I cherished them as if I'd bought them outright, ran them in, serviced them and didn't do things on the cheap.

All that said, logic still dictates (to me at least) that there will be a mindset among some people who obtain a car with the intention of using it and giving it back in 2-3 years that it doesn't need to be looked after compared to if they had to keep the car 10+ years. Even in my mind, if I got a car on PCP knowing it was a 2 year deal on something quick would I run it in or just drive normally from day one? I'm not saying abuse it by any means but I don't need to worry how the car is going when it hits 100k.


----------



## The happy goat (Jun 26, 2019)

Champagne taste, lager money! These will be the same people living off credit cards and financed up to the hilt just to keep up with the neighbours.


----------



## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

ollienoclue said:


> Coming back to Which? surveys, they don't fill me with confidence because I have a high level of suspicion regarding the kind of people who subscribe to them.


That's me then :lol:

I've been a member for decades and pretty much everything we've bought has been tested by Which? What we don't do is just take the results verbatim. We look at the scores for individual components and work from there.

As an example, our washing machine - a "reliable" one - lasted 7 years including some serious work with terry nappies for our 2 children.

My sister in law bought 3 "it's a washing machine - they're all the same" machines in the same time without the nappies work. All simply broke mechanically - motors, bearings etc. As predicted by Which?

Maybe it's just that I'm now conditioned to be favourable to the reviews based on personal experience. Having once bought a "Car of the Year" which started to fall apart after a year I have little faith in anything that may have commercial bias/pressure involved.

I suppose it's what we've actually seen/experienced that colours our judgement.

I really value the experience of folks like Steve TDCi - people who actually see stuff day to day and share their knowledge.

Each to their own. We pay our money and take our choice. :thumb:

Andy.


----------



## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

AndyN01 said:


> That's me then :lol:
> 
> I've been a member for decades and pretty much everything we've bought has been tested by Which? What we don't do is just take the results verbatim. We look at the scores for individual components and work from there.
> 
> ...


^^^^ very much this ^^^

My wife wanted a car who was the most reliable and the least chance to break down, she has nightmares of breaking down on the dual carriageway and motorway in a very bad way, she has her second Lexus CT200h now and loves it.
We bought a Miele washing machine (my mother had one for 20 years with 9 children, my brother had one for over 20 years with 5 children) Miele voted by which magazine as best. 
Yes for the price I paid for the Miele, I could have 3 other washing machines, but I don't want the hassle, so do it once do it right.
My Miele hoover is 18 years old, another Which and Good housekeeping winner, still works like new and seen major abuse over the years. 
So yes I do believe in Consumers organisation advise, but take the Car of the year advise with a massive pinch of salt. 
Same with truck of the year, it's always the companies who do the best introduction for the press and have the biggest buffet and best hotels for the press.

Or do you think a journalist is driving these truck for a year, calculating the cost and sleep in that bed for over 200 nights in a year?
No they drive them for an hour or so, what do they know?


----------



## Ennoch (Jan 31, 2006)

The car/van/truck of the year thing is interesting because it's based on tech and promises, not actual performance. The Vauxhall Vivaro was 'van of the year' when it was launched but while nice enough to drive they were also flakey and had a ton of design flaws that were discovered down the line after a few years use by harsh builders etc. Then again with trucks it's not as if they launch a new truck every year, nor are there thousands of models to choose from. Similarly with vans. Cars on the other hand there's more choice but how do you define the 'best' car across every single market, model and option? You can't.

With regard reliability I would suggest that actual reliability (not stranding you) isn't necessarily the same as perceived reliability (a garage telling you something needs to be replaced). Take my dad's Honda as an example. From nearly new there were issues with the brakes beginning to corrode and bind, something the MD (Chathams at the time) refused to deal with under warranty and so would charge my dad almost every service for new discs and pads and then a year later this same thing would happen. Fast forward 7 or 8 years and he is working down south so uses the local dealer to Cambridge. They say the discs and pads are okay but suggest replacing the guide pins as the old ones are absolutely buggered. Chathams never did that, nor even suggested it despite it clearly being the problem. Once back north he then used a local garage I found really good (before doing everything myself) and again, the perceived reliability of the car massively improved as no longer were spurious parts being replaced while the things that actually needed doing were getting looked after properly. Since I took the car on it's been pretty reliable, the only issues being age/mileage related such as alternator, rear springs and an exhaust (it's first).

That isn't a dig at main dealers per se, more that if you find a garage that does the right thing the right way then your car will last longer. The local place up at my parents is great. Personally I find him extortionately expensive on the odd occasion I've needed something when I've been up and haven't had the tools to do it myself, but the locals find him great. He's in the middle of nowhere and is both professional (not a dirty back street garage), trustworthy and competent. And he gets to charge a bit more for that accordingly. It probably helps that most people know him so if he did a bad job word would soon get around! The only complaints tend to be from NC500ers who've bent their car and expect him to fix it for them yesterday...


----------



## ridders66 (May 24, 2019)

I remember a friend going bonkers at his step daughter because she bought a Fiat Punto. He wouldn't let her park it on his drive. He kept telling me how crap Fiats were, used the old chestnut Fix It Again Tomorrow. He paid no attention to the fact that when Fiat were crap in the 70s and early 80s, so were other makes. Audis used to rot away, Older Mercs had more rust than solid metal, BMWs rotted away. Rolls Royces were terrible for corroding. Pretty much every car had horrific problems then. Look how many problems we had with carbs? Manual chokes? But today, there is no such thing as a crap car. Everything seems to be galvanised, and reliable.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

When you buy a volvo and the engine says psa/fomo

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

Might that also be said for a mini?


----------



## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

I bought a Toyota and it has Subaru badges all over it...


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

fatdazza said:


> Might that also be said for a mini?


To a certain extent - yes, Mini swapped from the belt driven PSA unit to there own version - the N47, available as 1.6 and 2.0


----------



## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

PugIain said:


> I bought a Toyota and it has Subaru badges all over it...


Like this?


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Major component development and manufacturing sharing had been going on for bloody years, economies of scale and all that

Factor in common 3rd party supplied components and cars share a lot more under the skin than Joe Average would ever realise


----------



## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Am I right in thinking that Renault supply Mercedes with engines too?


----------



## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

All of this boils down to the same mentality of those who pay ridiculous amounts for high end cars and put them through the local scratch -a-matic auto washes.
To some people, my wife and eldest step daughter are primes examples here, a car is just a tool to get from A to B and when it inevitably goes bang, oh i'll just finance another.

Don't treat the symptom, treat the cause. But like i said, to i would estimate 97% of the population, it's just like a pai of scissors, there to do a job and as kerr said earlier, it's only come MOT time that will do what is absolutely necessary otherwise they just put fuel in it and expect it to work.


----------



## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

Bristle Hound said:


> Am I right in thinking that Renault supply Mercedes with engines too?


Some yes, the engine in my wife's previous A class was a renault derivative...


----------



## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

fatdazza said:


> Like this?
> 
> View attachment 60169


Yes.

Apart from the one over the headlight. That would mean you wouldn't be able to see at night, and that would be silly.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Bristle Hound said:


> Am I right in thinking that Renault supply Mercedes with engines too?


Yes, the 1.5 DCi goes in Renaults, Nissan, Dacia and Mercedes.


----------



## AndyQash (Jul 28, 2019)

SteveTDCi said:


> Yes, the 1.5 DCi goes in Renaults, Nissan, Dacia and Mercedes.


I have the latest AdBlue version in the Qashqai and it's turning out to be quite an economical little engine.


----------



## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

andy665 said:


> Major component development and manufacturing sharing had been going on for bloody years, economies of scale and all that
> 
> Factor in common 3rd party supplied components and cars share a lot more under the skin than Joe Average would ever realise


Of course!

The way the car market is these days they are all using the same parts bin and none of them can afford to develop their own bespoke range of engines. I don't think many makers will even bother to assemble their own motors in the future, either. You can buy electric motors off the shelf, they are ridiculously simple compared to your average engine.

The point made earlier about reliability was valid. I regard 'reliable' as the thing didn't go bang and strand me. The fact I need to replace an aux belt or a few wheel bearings, discs or pads or whatever I consider part and parcel of running a car. It's no different to putting fuel in or having to change the oil. Stuff wears out or needs to be replaced as part X has a finite lifespan. That's not a reliability issue.


----------



## Christian6984 (Dec 20, 2007)

fatdazza said:


> Might that also be said for a mini?


They had all sorts fitted to them. First Generation petrol's were a Chrysler engine, The diesel was from the Toyota. Seconds Gen is PSA, and Third is their own/BMW


----------



## Mugwump (Feb 17, 2008)

Christian6984 said:


> They had all sorts fitted to them. First Generation petrol's were a Chrysler engine,....


To be strictly correct it was an engine jointly developed (at least in its later stages anyway) by Chrysler and Rover. Chrysler were about to give up on it, and it took the input of the engineers from Canley to get it to work properly.

The factory to manufacture it in Brazil was originally to be a joint project between Chrysler and Rover/BMW, and in the event, I don't think Chrysler ever utilised the engine themselves.


----------



## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

SteveTDCi said:


> Yes, the 1.5 DCi goes in Renaults, Nissan, Dacia and Mercedes.


I recently found out that the 1.3 turbo engine they use in the likes of the A or CLA200 is also a Renault unit. I think this one was developed with Renault rather than be a direct Renault unit like the 1.5 diesel.

I find it an irony as I was and am a long term Renault fan. My first car was a Renault and I've had many since. I used to get ribbed by German and Japanese car owners for their 'lack of reliability' etc. I moved towards Mercedes in 2015 and now Renault are in partnership with them. :lol::lol:


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

And that's where it went

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Time for an up date ...

I'll upload photos when tapatalk gets its shizzle together


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

So German reliability, this time the German barnstormer that is the Mercedes eclass. This one stopped working and it was recovered back to us

No engine oil and what there was we found under the car. But it's only a small hole










That's more like it, although the picture would have been better if we had left the Conrod sticking out the block

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SadlyDistracted (Jan 18, 2013)

OOowch!


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

All this to change a water pipe (ok the ims is leaking too

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SadlyDistracted (Jan 18, 2013)

Perhaps they should have stayed air cooled:doublesho


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

What little joys of delight have we had in the last few weeks, well

We had a spate of Transits, one had DPF issues courtesy of 3 failed glowplugs and a thermostat housing

the next, the all too common EGR valve

another couldn't contain its power steering fluid

finally one that lost number 4 injector and pressure washed the cylinder resulting in a new engine being required

A Mondeo decided to throw up a random code that actually meant the timing was out

A 5.0 range rover SC decide it needed to wash the centre vee in coolant.

An A2 decided the water pump was no longer needed and promptly threw its belt off.

A2018 1.3 PSA engined car (horrid engine) had the wet belt start to break up and block the oil pick up pipe

And finally an RS3 with low mileage and just over 3 years old decided to break its transfer box - ouch £2800 for the part alone.


----------



## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

Blimey, that's a lot of stuff gone wrong.

While you're around Steve, I've been meaning to ask you (your post reminded me);

A few weeks back I started getting a squeaking noise from the N/s front of my 2004 Clio. Took the wheel off and had a look around. The outer CV joint clip had fractured, so the boot was coming off on turns but going back on when straightening up. I assumed the squeaking was caused by that. I fitted a new clip but the squeaking remains.

Before I fitted the new clip I cleaned up the surface of the joint where the boot fits onto it. Did I do wrong doing this? Does that surface need to be greased and could that be the cause of the squeaking or is it likely to be something else?


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

They should be clean and dry, CV clips are a pain in the bum, are you sure the joint hasn't dried out ? Other possibilities are the suspension arm bushes or lower ball joints, are you sure its not the arm moving in the bushes ?


----------



## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

SteveTDCi said:


> They should be clean and dry, CV clips are a pain in the bum, are you sure the joint hasn't dried out ? Other possibilities are the suspension arm bushes or lower ball joints, are you sure its not the arm moving in the bushes ?


I didn't remove the boot to check it was still full of grease, but it hadn't been squeaking very long before I took a look at it and I do hardly any miles (barely 1k a year at the moment). I assume you're concern about that is the likely longevity of the joint if it has dumped some of the grease rather than that being the cause of the squeak?

I've not checked the suspension parts you referred to but the squeak only occurs when steering.

Presumably, jacking the front of the car up to replicate the squeak won't help because there won't be any load on components.

If I said it was maybe more like a creak than a squeak would that alter the diagnosis?

Also, I think it was only about a month or so after my MOT (and hardly any miles) that the noise started. Wouldn't a ball joint be an MOT failure?

Could suspension top mounts make a noise?


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Top mounts fail on the Clio too, try and get someone to turn the wheel while you check for noises, hold the shock and listen to the top of the strut


----------

