# Homemade Waterless Wash??



## stupidmonkfish

Just wondering if anyone has tried making up some waterless wash out of the products that you already have in your collection or household??

I have been thinking about it today as i now have 2 children and what with work etc i only get to properly wash the car every blue moon now due to lack of free time so the car is filthy 95% of the time.

So what if it causes some swirling i thought to myself, i'd rather have a clean car with some swirls rather than a swirl free car covered in filth etc, can always give it a machine polish 1-2 a year anyway.

This waterless option would save me so much time and enable me to keep the car clean for probably less £££'s.

So now the questions, 

Has anyone tested any of the many waterless products and if so what have you found to be the best. Are their any that just wash and not lay down a sealant/wax allowing you to add your own wax/sealant.

Is it possible to make a home brew waterless wash??, if so what ingredients would you need to start mixing up some of the stuff.

I was thinking along the lines of some alcohol, some citrus oil/juice for cleaning power?, some kind of sealant or liquid carnuaba wax maybe added to some megs last touch etc. I wonder how that would turn out?? probably in a greasy mess lol, but you never know.

What stumps me is the surfactants/emulsifiers that are supposed to encapsulate the dirt and raise it away from the painted surface, what are they and are they available to obtain easily or make from natural ingredients.

Interested to hear/read your thoughts about it and whether or not you think its possible to make one to a spec that performs without scratching/marring paint, also do you believe the claims that these surfactants/emulsifiers whatever they are can really lift the dirt from the paint, then surround and soften the dirt allowing it to be wiped away safely, sounds possible but would like to hear a more in-depth scientific explanation etc.

Thanks.

:devil: :detailer: :devil: 

:doublesho :lol:


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## byrnes

I was thinking something along your lines the other day.

I mean to an extent some shampoo and water maybe foam mix would work... But to what extent and what it would do to the paint i have no idea...

Maybe something to have a look at having a play with, read the labels of any waterless wash/quick detailers and find out what is common in them?


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## Holden_C04

I don't think it's a very realistic possibility. It takes years for a PhD to come up with a commercial formula, so I can't imagine how long it would take you with a basic knowledge of chemical engineering. The closest you can come to a "homemade" solution is to modify existing products, like Megs Last Touch. By that point though, what's wrong with buying an existing product?


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## stupidmonkfish

Holden_C04 said:


> I don't think it's a very realistic possibility. It takes years for a PhD to come up with a commercial formula, so I can't imagine how long it would take you with a basic knowledge of chemical engineering. The closest you can come to a "homemade" solution is to modify existing products, like Megs Last Touch. By that point though, what's wrong with buying an existing product?


Nothing wrong with existing products, i will no doubt try some out soon.

Just wondered if their was a way of making something that was "better" by adding/subtracting something.

It would be nice to have an all-in-one product and also just a wash only product, most of the waterless systems i have seen leave behind a sealant/wax layer, are their any that are just wash solutions so you can add your preferred LSP after cleaning?


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## Holden_C04

stupidmonkfish said:


> Nothing wrong with existing products, i will no doubt try some out soon.
> 
> Just wondered if their was a way of making something that was "better" by adding/subtracting something.
> 
> It would be nice to have an all-in-one product and also just a wash only product, most of the waterless systems i have seen leave behind a sealant/wax layer, are their any that are just wash solutions so you can add your preferred LSP after cleaning?


What I use is ONR and it does leave some level of protection, but it's not a wash and wax product. I can apply any type of protection I desire after washing.


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## Jakedoodles

Buy yourself Chemical Formulary by H Bennett. It's a set of books that has formulas for everything in the world practically!


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## Bigpikle

its a great idea and would be great if you could make something work :thumb:

the key for me with a waterless wash is an ingredient that will prevent the 'dragging' of dirt and prevent marring. I am not sure that it would be easy to find such an ingredient in your other stuff? A quality shampoo would do it, but I have a feeling you'd need a lot, and then its not cost effective. It would then need a rinse. One of the issues with many waterless products already out there is that they are essentially just spray wax/QDs, so while they will actually clean a bit, as you have liquid being wiped over dirt, they cause the dreaded marring so many have highlighted  It does need something special to stop that I think....

If you havent already, then try ONR mixed at QD strength (6oz per gallon IIRC). That is a VERY good cleaning product, and no need to rinse. It can be sprayed on like a QD and for light dirt is superb. I have a gallon pump sprayer of the stuff, and used it exclusively to clean my garage queen last year, as it dodnt get dirty enough between washes to need a full wash. You need care and a good technique to ensure you dont have any issues eg fold a MF in half and then half again. Use a straight line VERY light wipe of the cloth, then turn to a clean side and repeat. Once nothing is coming up, then buff to a shine with another MF :thumb:

As I use ONR as my exclusive shampoo now anyway it kind of qualifies, as its already there. It makes a superb clay lube at normal wash dilution (1oz per 2 gallons) as it has polymers in it to make it lube stuff off the paint, ensuring no drag. As it doesnt need a rinse it also means a wipe after claying is all that is required 

Wonder if anyone can find something else that can be used, that doesnt need a rinse etc? Might have a search in the cupboard....


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## stupidmonkfish

That ONR looks pretty good, seen it on youtube and like the idea, time saving is what i need, having to set up pressure washer, hose, foam etc takes too long and at this time of year its not much fun anyway in the cold, save all that OCD washing malarky for the summer.

Im not after a water free solution because im an eco freako lol (although saving water is beneficial and wont hurt), just after a time saving wash system that is relatively safe for the paint, i can accept "some" swirls being induced as over time even washing with foam and two buckets etc your going to get some form of damage, as Agent Smith kept telling Neo in The Matrix "its inevitable" lol.


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## Holden_C04

Swirls are *not* inevitable with a rinseless wash. That theory is bunk and based on false assumptions by those with little or no experience with these types of washes. You're just as likely or perhaps more likely to induce them with a conventional wash based on 20th century tech.


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## stupidmonkfish

Holden_C04 said:


> Swirls are *not* inevitable with a rinseless wash. That theory is bunk and based on false assumptions by those with little or no experience with these types of washes. You're just as likely or perhaps more likely to induce them with a conventional wash based on 20th century tech.


What i ment is swirls/marring are inevitable no matter what wash system you use, at some point over time they will be induced.

So with that in mind a waterless or rinse-free wash is the better option anyway if it inflicts as much or less paint defects as the conventional methods.:detailer:

Interesting topic this.


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## Holden_C04

stupidmonkfish said:


> So with that in mind a waterless or rinse-free wash is the better option anyway if it inflicts as much or less paint defects as the conventional methods.:detailer:
> 
> Interesting topic this.


It's a rare day to see me wash a car conventionally - very rare! :thumb:


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## stupidmonkfish

Holden_C04 said:


> It's a rare day to see me wash a car conventionally - very rare! :thumb:


Other than the ONR method you mentioned, have you used any other waterless washes and how did you find them?? do you still use them??


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## Holden_C04

stupidmonkfish said:


> Other than the ONR method you mentioned, have you used any other waterless washes and how did you find them?? do you still use them??


I haven't used it, but there is an older rinseless wash (it's not waterless - that's a misnomer) called QEW or Quick and Easy Wash. It has a different formula than ONR and doesn't leave anything behind (but less glossy finish). Unlike with ONR, the dirt rinses easily from wash media and stays within the bucket. ONR washes typically create a dirty sponge/media but the leave the bucket clean.

However, most people who did use QEW have transitioned to using ONR - at least on Autopia.


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## Bigpikle

If I get time next week (and am not snowed in) I want to make a video of how I wash my cars with ONR.

It does take a little practice to get the technique that works for you, but once you get it sorted, I reckon its far quicker on 95% of wash situations, and does a great job. I havent seen any marring yet, although neither car has been polished in a good long while, so there are a few minor marks that you get in 18 months, so cant do a brinkman challenge on it just yet, but will be doing that on the Audi once the weather improves so I can get it 99% swirl free to start with


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## stupidmonkfish

Bigpikle said:


> If I get time next week (and am not snowed in) I want to make a video of how I wash my cars with ONR.
> 
> It does take a little practice to get the technique that works for you, but once you get it sorted, I reckon its far quicker on 95% of wash situations, and does a great job. I havent seen any marring yet, although neither car has been polished in a good long while, so there are a few minor marks that you get in 18 months, so cant do a brinkman challenge on it just yet, but will be doing that on the Audi once the weather improves so I can get it 99% swirl free to start with


Been looking on youtube at some demo's, some have better methods than others but i get the idea i think, will definitely be getting some ONR, look forward to your vid.

Also it must work out cheaper per wash??


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## Holden_C04




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## Relaited

I am no chemist, so I would wait for Yvan. I think he is having internet issues to resolve.

I know several folks who, rather than start from scratch, they take an existign product, and hot rod it. Not sure if this makes chemical sense. But some will add a mineral spirit in the winter geography, for example.

So, maybe consider taking something and adding to it?


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## reparebrise

It took chemists 18 months to develop the product we have, so I would venture that this is not a do it yourself sort of thing.

There are many products that already exist, are inexpensive, and are available in the UK. OF the ones available in the UK I have tried NoWet, seems to be the best.


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## Sav

Got to laugh, the cars shown on the tube are not what I consider dirty in fact they are nearly clean, try that waterless stuff on my car that’s just done 100 miles totally black with salt from the roads and other dirt. Winter roads here are hard on your car…not a chance of a wipe on wipe off system


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## Bigpikle

Sav said:


> Got to laugh, the cars shown on the tube are not what I consider dirty in fact they are nearly clean, try that waterless stuff on my car that's just done 100 miles totally black with salt from the roads and other dirt. Winter roads here are hard on your car…not a chance of a wipe on wipe off system


those arent waterless, they use plenty of water 

search a little harder and you'll find some pretty dirty cars washed by Scottwax and others


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## Sav

Aaaaaaaaa right so they PW the cars using water first then. So all they are trying to do is remove the buckets......Hardly worthwhile I’d rather use the water than a load of chemicals if it’s the green aspect of the wash, if its just to cut down on time then I like time spent washing gets me out the house and I enjoy it.


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## byrnes

This is all very interesting (and thats not ment to seem sarcastic).

But if you have been washing any customers cars with the conventional wash system and then start using a waterless one. Like the infamous "pro shine" has seen on QVC or what ever channel it is. Surely your customers would think your just spraying water or something on their car and wiping it over. (Therefor scratching the paint/taking the Pi$$).

If it was explained to them what your doing, it would change there minds. But like alot of skepticism people on here have for waterless wash products, you have to think about it from a customers point of view?

But on a positive ONR does look impressive, maybe something for me to look more into.... BUT I know this thread is about making a waterless wash... The idea being no water therefor no chemicals etc going onto the ground, going into waterways... But ONR still has run off.. And I think until a 100% waterless wash system witch works as well if not better than conventional washing, we are stuck with the same problem...

Just my thoughts

Byrnes


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## Bigpikle

careful use of ONR has almost zero run-off. I washed the front end of Epoch's BMW in his garage the other night, and barely wet the concrete floor. The only reason it splashed at all was that we used a 2L bucket so I couldnt fit the entire sponge in :lol:


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## caledonia

^^^^ Ok you have done it again just off Motorgeeks and order 3 waterless products.

Let the experiments begin. :lol:

Just need to source a few other items now.

Gordon.


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## Bigpikle

which ones?

not sure too many of them are any good, except of course ONR....

PM sent


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## Epoch

Bigpikle said:


> careful use of ONR has almost zero run-off. I washed the front end of Epoch's BMW in his garage the other night, and barely wet the concrete floor. The only reason it splashed at all was that we used a 2L bucket so I couldnt fit the entire sponge in :lol:












:thumb:


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## Bigpikle

^^ proof :thumb:

thanks Jon - that really is THE smallest bucket in the world EVER :lol:


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## Epoch

Bigpikle said:


> ^^ proof :thumb:
> 
> thanks Jon - that really is THE smallest bucket in the world EVER :lol:


Perfect for either size Mirka Abrilon though and why i have a few


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## Detail My Ride

Detail your car once every 3 months, re-apply a Wax or Sealant, ensure everything is properly protected including the Wheels, Paintwork etc, get a Foam Lance and then perform a touchless wash twice a week, quicker than a touchless wash, and you aren't touching the paintwork at all, so no risk of swirls.


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## alan_mcc

Gaz W said:


> Detail your car once every 3 months, re-apply a Wax or Sealant, ensure everything is properly protected including the Wheels, Paintwork etc, get a Foam Lance and then perform a touchless wash twice a week, quicker than a touchless wash, and you aren't touching the paintwork at all, so no risk of swirls.


Don't mean to argue with you here, as i'll most likely be proved wrong  but wouldn't foam drag the likes of grit down the sides of the car which could cause a very minor scratch?

Pretty sure scratches/swirling even if light will occur every wash.


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## caledonia

Bigpikle said:


> which ones?
> 
> not sure too many of them are any good, except of course ONR....
> 
> PM sent


Replied. :thumb:


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## Detail My Ride

Eh?

You aren't touching the car with anything other than water and chemicals, so you aren't physically using any form of abrasion, thus no risk of swirling.


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## caledonia

alan_mcc said:


> Don't mean to argue with you here, as i'll most likely be proved wrong  but wouldn't foam drag the likes of grit down the sides of the car which could cause a very minor scratch?
> 
> Pretty sure scratches/swirling even if light will occur every wash.


These is a bit of chemistry and physic involved.
The foam contains cleaners and softening agents, then by its nature with the bubbles trying to move to the top. Lift the grime and silt away from the paint. Before gravity takes hold.

In short it softens anf lifts before removing heavy materials.

So no possible chance of it causing damage.
Gordon.


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## Dave KG

Just to reiterate really what is being said above about the foam.

I can understand why folk would think that it could mark - as you are encouraging silt and grit to slide on the paintwork and this movement you would think would cause marks... but that grit wouldn't move at all unless there was something there to reduce the static friction which is holding it in place - the foam adds water and lubricant to the paintwork which can be thought of as lifting the dirt particles and allowing them to slide over a layer of water and lube rather than over the paintwork itself - a bit like a car tyre aquaplaning. So no damage is inflicted with this method.

This is why the touchless wash method is desired and sought after... the touching of grit on the paint adds pressure and you push the grit down through the lube (even if you are very light) and this can cause marring. This is why I remain unconvinced by waterless washes as the physical action is something it seem to rely heavily on along with capillary action of the microfibre towel which becomes very quickly limited with the pick up of dirt. I look forward to demonstrations of waterless washes leaving completely swirl free finishes though (with all filling removed)


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## BigLeegr

I like SuPrimo better than ONR or QEW, personally. Unfortunately it isn't available in Canada (Had it imported) but it seems to be widely available in the UK and Australia.

I used it as a rinseless wash, as I found it too "soapy" for a clean wipe after spraying.


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## Chris_4536

Dave KG said:


> Just to reiterate really what is being said above about the foam.
> 
> I can understand why folk would think that it could mark - as you are encouraging silt and grit to slide on the paintwork and this movement you would think would cause marks... but that grit wouldn't move at all unless there was something there to reduce the static friction which is holding it in place - the foam adds water and lubricant to the paintwork which can be thought of as lifting the dirt particles and allowing them to slide over a layer of water and lube rather than over the paintwork itself - a bit like a car tyre aquaplaning. So no damage is inflicted with this method.
> 
> This is why the touchless wash method is desired and sought after... the touching of grit on the paint adds pressure and you push the grit down through the lube (even if you are very light) and this can cause marring. This is why I remain unconvinced by waterless washes as the physical action is something it seem to rely heavily on along with capillary action of the microfibre towel which becomes very quickly limited with the pick up of dirt. I look forward to demonstrations of waterless washes leaving completely swirl free finishes though (with all filling removed)


The key word here is Encapsualtion (just adding to your post Dave - not trying to correct!)

With all 'detergants' (Snow foam being a high-foaming, wax friendly detergant) the dirt is encapsulated within the 'film' of product.
Generally, the longer this film is left / can be left on the surface - the longer it will have to 'eat away and swallow up' each dirt/grit particle.


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## stupidmonkfish

Gaz W said:


> Detail your car once every 3 months, re-apply a Wax or Sealant, ensure everything is properly protected including the Wheels, Paintwork etc, get a Foam Lance and then perform a touchless wash twice a week, quicker than a touchless wash, and you aren't touching the paintwork at all, so no risk of swirls.


Problem is i still have to connect hose to tap, connect the PW and the foam lance etc and it all takes longer than you think and time is something i dont have much off now to spend washing the car.

Then like you say, every few months you need to detail (do you mean machine polish??) or just clean the car) and re-apply waxes and sealants etc and i just dont have the time, plus i hate doing all that in the colder months as i get cold, wet and grumpy .

Has anyone used the ONR in a pump sprayer and used it like the waterless sprays??, IE spray a bit on MF and spray some on car, wipe away etc.

Also is there a benifit to pre-spraying the car with some ONR before touching it to allow it to soften/encapsulate dirt??


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## Chris_4536

stupidmonkfish said:


> Has anyone used the ONR in a pump sprayer and used it like the waterless sprays??, IE spray a bit on MF and spray some on car, wipe away etc. No, I prefer the 'safety' of a deep-pile Eurow MF saturated with ONR from my bucket
> 
> Also is there a benifit to pre-spraying the car with some ONR before touching it to allow it to soften/encapsulate dirt??I used some mixed in a spray bottle for the lower parts to help soften the dirt in advance. A small 2L pump sprayer would be more efficient though. You can pre-spray the car with the ONR mix and leave to dwell whilst you prepare your wash bucket (or buckets preferably!) and pile of plush MFs


:detailer::thumb:


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## byrnes

I really hope that this forum can be part of a product that can be a waterless wash! Once someone formulates a product we need to test it, then that would really be something. "tested by perfectionists, for perfectionists" If its possible...

Im up for trying it...


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## Bigpikle

Gaz W said:


> Detail your car once every 3 months, re-apply a Wax or Sealant, ensure everything is properly protected including the Wheels, Paintwork etc, get a Foam Lance and then perform a touchless wash twice a week, quicker than a touchless wash, and you aren't touching the paintwork at all, so no risk of swirls.


Gaz - we're trying to avoid the huge rivers of foam etc that get washed into open storm drains and into your local river/stream, otherwise I agree that this would work well. Used to do it myself until I realised the downsides 

I have a few products I'm testing and have more on the way. No idea if they will provide a genuine solution or not, but worth a bit of a try and hopefully will be interesting to find out


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## reparebrise

I have a few questions for the Foamers here( I have never been able to bring myself to use such a product). In above postings it is stated that the foam is sprayed on the cer, then rinsed, and nothing ever touches the car except foam and water, does this mean that the cars are air dried?

If they are air dried great, if they are dried using some means like a chamois or MF towel does your towel come out spotless, or does it pick up some risidual dirt?


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## caledonia

Reparebrise. I think you know this answer and you would be right.
I personally use air dryer with a touch-less wash. As I would not put a drying towel near the car without a manual 2BM. Due to amount of traffic film left behind.

So although people swear by these washes in the winter months and cuts down on potential damage. They are not as good as a good old mechanical wash.

I am trying to change my ways and have been in contact with Damon about different wash techniques. So things are a foot.

But these finding are from my personal experiences. That is not to say I am right. But these are my findings.
Gordon


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## reparebrise

Gordon

Actualy I do not know the answer, that is the reason for my question. As mentioned I can not bring myself to use such a wash because of the enormous waste it generates.


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## caledonia

The idea of a touch less wash is to remove most of the heavy grime and grit from the car. That is not to say the car will be spotless, it is far from this. I guess you would look at it as a pre wash. Now in winter that can be enough for most. But this is not to say it is safe to then dab or rub a drying towel across the paint work.
Some people will carry out this process again, but as before there is still a fine traffic film present on the cars finish.
This is where If you require a further clean you then need to forget about the touch less wash and then carry out the 2BM, Followed by a rinse wash.

I am not as blinkered as some people. I wish to learn and possible try out new products or techniques. So as I have said to Bigpikle I am not commenting much but I am avidly following these threads.
After all without trying and products then you cant really comment on these yourself.
I am open minded and I will carry out my own techniques and with various product. Which I have just recently ordered. See what comes with it.

I was not meaning anything untoward in my last posting. I mistakenly took it for granted that you knew about this process.
Gordon.


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## reparebrise

Gordon

Thanks for the detailed reply, and no need to excuse yourself, I should know how it works.

I am glad to see that you are open to new techniques, bravo!

Unfortunatly new or unknown for many people automaticly means bad.

Like anything in life detailing is evolving, and at a faster rate than many wish to see it.

In June 2008 I met a prominent Detailer in the US, that swore that waterless washing was bunk, and that in no way would he use it on his customers cars. With a goal of proving waterless users wrong he started cleaning his own car with a waterless product to be able to show the world that waterless washiong caused marring, that waterless washing was hiding the real facts with fillers, that waterless washing was slower, that waterless washing was inferior to a traditional wet wash.

6 months later that detailer is now using waterless almost exclusivly, having found out that it does not marr the surface any more than a traditional wash does(even going as far as afirming that it marrs less), that it save him great amounts of time, that his customers find his service more professional(no wet drive ways), and that the final result is superior to the traditional wash(he was an avid foamer).

So I invite all those who want to prove waterless washing to be a hoax, and give it a try, and use the same care as you do in all your detialing, and you will find that the results are as good as your foam wash.


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## Bigpikle

Yvan

The key benefit of the foaming/pre-soaking process is the removal of particle matter that might otherwise get dragged across the paint to cause swirling, as Gordon has said. There is no doubting it works as well - cars covered in debris, mud, salt particles etc will usually get 95%+ of the particle matter off, leaving only the layer of traffic film to be washed in a contact wash. The product I used to use would leave a car looking very clean, by itself, and only a wash media such as a light coloured mitt or sponge, would reveal how much dirt was actually left during the wash stage.

It is this step in the process that has people so concerned. Its hard to imagine how particulate matter can be safely removed with a MF and wash product without inflicting damage.

I have found that a high flow pressure washer will achieve the same result without any chemical usage, which is one positive step, but still leaves run-off which has to go somewhere. One of my cars is now approaching the level of dirt that has me wondering if ONR without a rinse is going to be safe, but any rinse will be using recycled water only, with no chemicals...


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## caledonia

Unfortunately I will have to let nature run its coarse today. My car is covered in Snow and not the chemical variety. 

Gordon.


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## Bigpikle

caledonia said:


> Unfortunately I will have to let nature run its coarse today. My car is covered in Snow and not the chemical variety.
> 
> Gordon.


:lol:

mine are now stuck down the bottom of the road as I cant get them up my drive, and its not exactly steep :lol: So much for a detail this week :lol:


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## caledonia

Thanks reparebrise.
For all the useful information on the steam cleaner
A few of the items I knew but a lot I did not.
It looks like it will be a good purchase after all.
Gordon.


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## Relaited

Yvan, I agree with you on the "buy or build" decision.

There are soem good water $mart products, just need to find the one that is right for you. And if there are not any you like, come here and let us know, perhaps we can point in the right direction ... or we can try to instruct the pros to formulate a solution.

-jim


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## reparebrise

Gents

Thank you for your reply's, so as suspected foaming is not a complete wash in itself. I agree with Damon that a good PW will achieve the same results. For us we use a PW when the cars are covered in debris, a PW that consumes 2 L per min, so in general we use 4 L per car for a pre rinse.

There seems to be quite a bit of talk about snow(of the non poluting kind) on the forum today, how much was recieved? We got 25 centimeteres in our last snow fall.


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## caledonia

Recommendations would be nice.
Thanks Its always good to see what is available.
Gordon.


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## Bigpikle

I have about 3-4" of snow here Yvan, but it has been as much as 6-10" further south. Problem is the entire country grinds to a halt as soon as any snow falls here :wall:

Not a single bus in London, most trains delayed or not running, hundreds of schools closed and it has been forecast for days....:lol:


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## Chris_4536

Bigpikle said:


> most drains delayed or not running


I can assure you that *my* drains are working perfectly well!!

Thanks for the input on this thread guys :thumb:

Chris


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## Dream Machines

the waterless topic sure is a highly debated one
I do not advise the use of completely waterless products such as no wet, dri wash and guard, FW 1 etc as they are petroleum based and contain pumice and fillers
Even their new green ones are not that flash
All hide the marring that they put in with their microfibre towels

A chamois is the smarter choice of wash media with waterless or semi waterless as microfibre towels grab and unless your using them soaking wet or very damp, will get ruined by the grime

One directional passes, no pressure, some water to clean the chamois after each panel (gets folded after each pass) and a natural product are my choice.

Also if you do a complete correction detail and then seal the paint with your favourite sealant, dri wash and guard and others will simply strip that completely off
I do like the foaming qualities of FW1 but it's not eco friendly at all and dries the paint out and also strips the sealants off.

Glare Sahara is another product. It is very oily/filmy and does produce a good shine but is hard to use. 
the best water wise product is one that does nothing but lubricates the paint and cleans the grime away and does not dry the paint up over time (sodium in car wash products does that)
I am convinced that style magic is the only product that does that and does not harm exterior trims and has no effect on sealants 

The other way to solve marring problems is by making your paint harder to mark
I am working on this now, my first raw ingredient is on the way from sydney now
It's not cheap ($157 per litre) but will be the core of my next product. it will make using levellers and compounds a thing of the past and harden the paint once a sealant has cured


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## reparebrise

Dream machines

Not all waterless products are solvent based, and not all containe abrasives and fillers, that's would be like saying all Mini drivers are super models, just not true.

As for the coating you are working on, one already exists(recenty introduced), Optimum Coating from OPT. I guess great minds think alike.


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## Dream Machines

No not all of them, only those brands I listed are that type
my soon to be product (for my use only) is not a protective laquer coating or sealant, it's something else entirely

I wonder how one would go about polishing a car's paint that is coated with G Techniq C1 or Optimum X
Would the paint be sticky


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## Bigpikle

Dream Machines said:


> No not all of them, only those brands I listed are that type
> my soon to be product (for my use only) is not a protective laquer coating or sealant, it's something else entirely
> 
> I wonder how one would go about polishing a car's paint that is coated with G Techniq C1 or Optimum X
> Would the paint be sticky


you wouldnt want to polish it - that would remove the coating. the reason Gtechniq only allow pro's to apply their coating is that only polishing will remove it once dried, so it needs some skill/technique during the application process to avoid issues.


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## reparebrise

For the Optimum prodiut it builds a film of 2-4 microns, is harder than the original paint, once installed can be polished if need be, and like Gteching, is only sold to pro's.


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## Guest

reparebrise said:


> I have a few questions for the Foamers here( I have never been able to bring myself to use such a product). In above postings it is stated that the foam is sprayed on the cer, then rinsed, and nothing ever touches the car except foam and water, does this mean that the cars are air dried?
> 
> If they are air dried great, if they are dried using some means like a chamois or MF towel does your towel come out spotless, or does it pick up some risidual dirt?





Relaited said:


> Yvan, I agree with you on the "buy or build" decision.
> 
> There are soem good water products, just need to find the one that is right for you. And if there are not any you like, come here and let us know, perhaps we can point in the right direction ... or we can try to instruct the pros to formulate a solution.
> 
> -jim


Professional Bloggers scam

Yvan & Relaited


> Yvan Lacroix from Canada's Repare-Brise and will provide some background of the technical aspects "waterless" and steam.
> Jim Fitzpatrick, Eco Detailer, will share some compelling events in our industry necessitating change and why Water Eco Detailing is a solution.


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## Relaited

Cyclo, what is your point?

-jim :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:


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## Guest

Relaited said:


> Cyclo, what is your point?
> -jim :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:


My point? I guess it was when you threatened me and every other detailer that you were going to put them out of business. Mr. Frtzpatrick or is it Mr. Frtz, CEO of ProntoWash. And for the record, that part of a thread was removed by the moderators on this site.

In another thread, you didn't wish to answer a question I asked you about your company business, so I thought I'd let others know what your agenda seems to be from a layman's/my perspective. I see that you want this business regulated so tightly that you would be the only one legally able to operate. IMO

In this thread I thought it wise to point out how professional bloggers come on and work a crowd, kinda like a street/carnival fair scam works. But all in all, I just thought I'd help others make their own decisions by clicking on links that they can read and make a decision for themselves.

Since you didn't want people to know that you run this type of business I feel it's important to let people know. These people come here to share, but for some reason you haven't seemed to be that forthcoming.

I'm only presenting a clearer picture of the Eco scheme of things.


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## Bigpikle

Cyclo said:


> My point? I guess it was when you threatened me and every other detailer that you were going to put them out of business. Mr. Frtzpatrick or is it Mr. Frtz, CEO of ProntoWash. And for the record, that part of a thread was removed by the moderators on this site.
> 
> In another thread, you didn't wish to answer a question I asked you about your company business, so I thought I'd let others know what your agenda seems to be from a layman's/my perspective. I see that you want this business regulated so tightly that you would be the only one legally able to operate. IMO
> 
> In this thread I thought it wise to point out how professional bloggers come on and work a crowd, kinda like a street/carnival fair scam works. But all in all, I just thought I'd help others make their own decisions by clicking on links that they can read and make a decision for themselves.
> 
> Since you didn't want people to know that you run this type of business I feel it's important to let people know. These people come here to share, but for some reason you haven't seemed to be that forthcoming.
> 
> I'm only presenting a clearer picture of the Eco scheme of things.


Cyclo - I and others are well aware of who Jim and Yvan are. They have made no secret of the fact they run businesses in the US. There are MANY people here who do the same, and as long as they follow the rules and dont use the forum to try and sell product without being a paid up supporter, they are free to contribute like everyone else.

I've read everything that Jim and Yvan have posted, and so far YOU are the only one to promote their business and products.

Please remember that this section is for people who WANT to discuss eco-friendly detailing techniques and products and as you clearly dont want to, why dont you stick to the sections of the forum that you are interested in.


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