# Scholl S20 first try (may need a little guidance)



## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

Hi Folks,

Following on from my introduction thread here:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=390785

Read loads of guides, watched lots of vids, today was the day to break my DA virginity and bring out my das6pro. I have short vids, before, 1st pass and 2nd pass.

Car did not get a complete wash as I was only concentrating on the one area to get a feel for it. Boot was washed. dried, clayed before proceeding.

I started with a white hex pad but it wasnt doing much, then tried the purple spider pad that came with the s20, still nothing much happening but definitely felt easier to use than any of the hex pads I tried. Finally settled on an orange hex pad, it is the most aggressive one I have at present and did start to see results!

Before:






I then did 4 passes with S20, 1st pass horizontal, 2nd pass vertical, etc






I then did another 4 passes (topped up s20 on pad)






There is a lot of improvement in the paint work, all the cobwebbing has gone but as you can see I still have some rather garish scratches (they have not gone through the clearcoat).

My question is, to remove these would I use a more aggressive pad or a more aggressive polish?

I did finish up with 476s just to keep things sealed (it's weeing it down now)


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## Ads_ClioV6 (Apr 27, 2014)

Thanks for posting


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

Nice job mate:thumb: yes you will need a cutting compound and pad if you want to improve the scratches, but some might be to deep and if you really don't know the paints history i.e. Has it been respray then just be careful. Has the bonnet been respray before?:thumb:


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## macca666 (Mar 30, 2010)

I would've thought the purple spider pad and orange hex were pretty similar.

Scholl do a navy spider pad which is classed as a heavy cutting pad whereas the purple is a polishing pad but can be used for correction dependant on paintwork. As yours is a Beemer I'd have thought the paintwork would be hard I know my 5 series was.

Here's the Polished Bliss link which gives a guide for which combo and machine as S20 is advertised as a one step high performance cutting compound so thought it would have been suffice.

http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/scholl-concepts-s20-black.html


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

chongo said:


> Nice job mate:thumb: yes you will need a cutting compound and pad if you want to improve the scratches, but some might be to deep and if you really don't know the paints history i.e. Has it been respray then just be careful. Has the bonnet been respray before?:thumb:


Cheers.

I dont know the paint history, had the car 2 weeks. When you say bonnet I assume you mean the boot? The paint looks original to my totally amateur eye.


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## great gonzo (Nov 4, 2010)

Personally I would step up the polish, I turn to a heavy cut Menzerna polish if I'm removing deep scratches. 
As Chongo says tho paint depth and condition need to be considered, you don't want to go to deep and regret it !!!!


Gonz.


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## gibbo555 (May 3, 2011)

You'll have to go with a heavier compound and pad to sort those out, S3 gold on the aforementioned navy spider pad would be worth a shot, but again air on the side of caution, get paint depth readings before attempting.

I know you were only trying it out but if you're having to do that many hits it kind of defeats the purpose of S20 Black, you could have it compounded, polished and refine in as many hits, only my opinion of course.


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## macca666 (Mar 30, 2010)

gibbo555 said:


> I know you were only trying it out but if you're having to do that many hits it kind of defeats the purpose of S20 Black, you could have it compounded, polished and refine in as many hits, only my opinion of course.


I thought part of the point was that you didn't need to buy two three different polishes not necessarily less hits? If you can buy one polish which does the job of two or three it's got to save you money as opposed maybe to the time aspect? That was certainly my reasoning for buying it :thumb:


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## gibbo555 (May 3, 2011)

macca666 said:


> I thought part of the point was that you didn't need to buy two three different polishes not necessarily less hits? If you can buy one polish which does the job of two or three it's got to save you money as opposed maybe to the time aspect? That was certainly my reasoning for buying it :thumb:


Yes very true :thumb:


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

scooobydont said:


> Cheers.
> 
> I dont know the paint history, had the car 2 weeks. When you say bonnet I assume you mean the boot? The paint looks original to my totally amateur eye.


Yes mate I meant the boot:thumb:

So what compound are you looking at, and as said before you May need a PDG just to be on the safe side when only having the car for 2 weeks if you intend to go for the deeper scratches. If you don't decide to go for a compound then why not try a filler glaze just to improve the finish and hide(not all) the scratches this would be better option.:thumb:


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## paulb1976 (Nov 2, 2012)

FWIW I bought S20 for my honda ctr which had really soft paint, used a few pad combos since but i find that it's not that aggressive. Great polish and finishes well for fine scratches but deep scratches i found it didn't touch them.:buffer:


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## Sawel (Aug 5, 2016)

The purple Scholl pad is a moderate cutting pad and does well on soft and intermediate paint but not aggressive enough for hard paint.

Assuming your BMW has hard paint (after testing as on the odd occasion it might not be) then I'd be looking at the Scholl white spider pad which would still require at least a few hits.

The Scholl pads in order of aggressiveness below...

White softouch lambswool pad --> White spider pad --> Navy spider pad --> Purple spider pad --> Orange spider pad --> Black pad

The white spider has good cut and finishes down quite well with S20. The purple pad takes too many hits for significant scratch improvement on hard paint but is an excellent choice on soft and intermediate paint.


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## Sawel (Aug 5, 2016)

paulb1976 said:


> FWIW I bought S20 for my honda ctr which had really soft paint, used a few pad combos since but i find that it's not that aggressive. Great polish and finishes well for fine scratches but deep scratches i found it didn't touch them.:buffer:


S20 has pretty good cut, slightly less than S17. I suggest your pad choice was wrong if you noticed that it "didn't touch" the scratches on your "really soft paint".


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

Sawel said:


> The purple Scholl pad is a moderate cutting pad and does well on soft and intermediate paint but not aggressive enough for hard paint.
> 
> Assuming your BMW has hard paint (after testing as on the odd occasion it might not be) then I'd be looking at the Scholl white spider pad which would still require at least a few hits.
> 
> ...


Hi mate:wave: just one question, you say a few hits does that mean a few section passes or just passes:thumb:


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## Sawel (Aug 5, 2016)

chongo said:


> Hi mate:wave: just one question, you say a few hits does that mean a few section passes or just passes:thumb:


What I meant was...

After doing an 18 x 18 inch area with 3-4 passes with some pressure (go a little firmer on particular scratches when passing) then a pass or 2 with little or no pressure, wipe polish away with IPA and inspect progress. Repeat this several times for worthwhile results and take paint measurement readings.

Sorry, I should have made it a bit clearer.


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## Radish293 (Mar 16, 2012)

macca666 said:


> I thought part of the point was that you didn't need to buy two three different polishes not necessarily less hits? If you can buy one polish which does the job of two or three it's got to save you money as opposed maybe to the time aspect? That was certainly my reasoning for buying it :thumb:


That's exactly my thoughts I'd been using S17 S40 combo and ran out. Buying S20 was much cheaper and does the trick. I do tend to think it needs their spider pads to work at it's best.


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

Thanks for the replies folks, off to look at paint depth gauges, if they are cheap I will get one, if not will leave as is for now...

Pads wise, I really liked the feel of the spider pad so may just go with a more aggressive spider pad. This is dependent on the paint depth of course. Will have a look at more aggressive compounds also.

I guess the paint depth will determine what happens next.


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## Sawel (Aug 5, 2016)

scooobydont said:


> Thanks for the replies folks, off to look at paint depth gauges, if they are cheap I will get one, if not will leave as is for now...
> 
> Pads wise, I really liked the feel of the spider pad so may just go with a more aggressive spider pad. This is dependent on the paint depth of course. Will have a look at more aggressive compounds also.
> 
> I guess the paint depth will determine what happens next.


Have a look at this paint depth gauge - http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=366306

Lots on here have it. It costs around £80 and is pretty decent. It's a bit of a pain to get to grips with initially but after that, you'll get the hang of it and it's pretty accurate too.

With German paint being hard in most cases, even if you think you're going aggressive you're not removing many microns of paint. If you used an aggressive pad and compound on German paint and used the same combination on soft Japanese paint, you'll remove much more paint on the Japanese car! Plus, Japanese paint is normally quite thin so great care is needed at all times.

As part of my job I get to work on all manufacturer type paint systems and you'd be surprised how thin paint can be on some cars!


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

Sawel said:


> What I meant was...
> 
> After doing an 18 x 18 inch area with 3-4 passes with some pressure (go a little firmer on particular scratches when passing) then a pass or 2 with little or no pressure, wipe polish away with IPA and inspect progress. Repeat this several times for worthwhile results and take paint measurement readings.
> 
> Sorry, I should have made it a bit clearer.


Arr seven passes then:thumb:


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## Sawel (Aug 5, 2016)

chongo said:


> Arr seven passes then:thumb:


Or 2-3 'sets'? I've heard some use that term but never used it myself.


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

We are good to go :thumb:










Purchased a 5" and 3" navy spider pads and went with the s20 again, initially didn't actually notice much difference, I then turned up the das from 4 to 5 and voila:



















Measured the paint afterward and was at low to mid 120's.

Moved on and did the back quarters, again with navy pad and speed 5 (after apply polish with speed 1):

Before:



















During:










After:




























Vid:






All in all delighted with the progress, not 100% but a vast improvement. It seems that with clearing up all the small issues, it makes the deeper scratches more noticeable!

Quick shot of the battleground (big thanks to my work for letting me use the worskhop at the weekend!)


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

Nice work mate:thumb: but how did you get to the during part did you stop wipe away S20 then do it again then you got the after shot:thumb: I see you took my advice on using a filler glaze.


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

chongo said:


> Nice work mate:thumb: but how did you get to the during part did you stop wipe away S20 then do it again then you got the after shot:thumb: I see you took my advice on using a filler glaze.


I am finding it a lot easier to do smaller sections. I had masked half the rear quarter and pulled the tape off.

To be honest, I did it so it would show the results that in turn I could post up to encourage me to keep going! That was 3 hours today just to do these bits!


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

Well if your getting the results like that you should carry on regardless what we say mate, well done and if it takes another 3hours so be it as long your doing it right and in this case your spot on:thumb:


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## paulb1976 (Nov 2, 2012)

apologies for the minor hijack - just noted my old S20 was "blue" rather than "black" version, anybody know the difference in cut because my blue version felt more medium than heavy cut - cheers:wave: nice car btw :thumb:


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## Sawel (Aug 5, 2016)

paulb1976 said:


> apologies for the minor hijack - just noted my old S20 was "blue" rather than "black" version, anybody know the difference in cut because my blue version felt more medium than heavy cut - cheers:wave: nice car btw :thumb:


On a scale of 0-6 with 0 being no cut and 6 being very aggressive, it has a value of 3. S20 black is 4 and S30 is 2.5.


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Hiya Scooby :wave:

Great write up and photos.

Lovely result.

Welcome to DW.  :buffer: :lol:

Andy.


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## paulb1976 (Nov 2, 2012)

Sawel said:


> On a scale of 0-6 with 0 being no cut and 6 being very aggressive, it has a value of 3. S20 black is 4 and S30 is 2.5.


cheers :thumb:


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

Been dodging away at this, panel at a time at the weekend when time allows. I am finding I am dropping down to the smaller navy spider pad due to the contours on the body.

Is there another all in one product that gives more cut than the S20? I am getting the results...eventually but it is requiring multiple hits (ie up and down, back and forth till product flashes, then work it some more, wipe off, inspect and then go again on the same bit).


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

scooobydont said:


> Been dodging away at this, panel at a time at the weekend when time allows. I am finding I am dropping down to the smaller navy spider pad due to the contours on the body.
> 
> Is there another all in one product that gives more cut than the S20? I am getting the results...eventually but it is requiring multiple hits (ie up and down, back and forth till product flashes, then work it some more, wipe off, inspect and then go again on the same bit).


You probably need to step it up to S17 to get the results you want, but it does sound like you might be better off using a compound like S3 gold then finishing it of with S40 if you are looking for a proper job:thumb:

Everyone goes on about s20 as a good 1 step polishing but it doesn't work on every paint sometimes it needs that extra cut just to get the results you want, and by the looks of it you are taking your time panel by panel so why not do it properly. :thumb:


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

chongo said:


> You probably need to step it up to S17 to get the results you want, but it does sound like you might be better off using a compound like S3 gold then finishing it of with S40 if you are looking for a proper job:thumb:
> 
> Everyone goes on about s20 as a good 1 step polishing but it doesn't work on every paint sometimes it needs that extra cut just to get the results you want, and by the looks of it you are taking your time panel by panel so why not do it properly. :thumb:


I thought I was doing it properly .

I see what you mean though, this z4 paint is not hard, it's HARD!


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

scooobydont said:


> I thought I was doing it properly .
> 
> I see what you mean though, this z4 paint is not hard, it's HARD!


That's why you are not getting the results you require:thumb: I don't know if you have done a test spot but it might be worth while you doing one if you decide to use either S3 gold or S3 gold XXL which has more cut than S3 gold depending on the pad you choose :thumb:


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

Ordered up some s3 gold xxl and s40, got plenty of pads to play with already.

I am guessing the S40 uses softer pads as its for finishing? I am thinking trying the xxl with purple spider first then navy blue spider if still not doing it, then s40 with black hex pad.


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## Sawel (Aug 5, 2016)

scooobydont said:


> Ordered up some s3 gold xxl and s40, got plenty of pads to play with already.
> 
> I am guessing the S40 uses softer pads as its for finishing? I am thinking trying the xxl with purple spider first then navy blue spider if still not doing it, then s40 with black hex pad.


I am a big fan of S20 and can use it to correct most paint efficiently but your typical German paint is more stubborn and requires something with more bite so you'll notice a difference with the S3 XXL Gold. Some of the German paint I've worked on has been ridiculously hard!!!


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

Got to wonder if it is this hard, how does it get a scratch in the first place


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## Sawel (Aug 5, 2016)

scooobydont said:


> Got to wonder if it is this hard, how does it get a scratch in the first place


Yep, putting a scratch into a scratch resistant clearcoat... :wall:


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## HOW5ER (Aug 11, 2009)

Im pretty sure the hard clearcoat stone chips more than softer say Jap stuff, my current VW has ridiculas stone chips as did my M3, must be down to the paint being more brittle or something???


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## Sawel (Aug 5, 2016)

HOW5ER said:


> Im pretty sure the hard clearcoat stone chips more than softer say Jap stuff, my current VW has ridiculas stone chips as did my M3, must be down to the paint being more brittle or something???


Or maybe it's because the owners of German cars like to tailgate the car in front too closely and therefore are more prone to stone chips? 

PS - I have a German car.


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## Paul7189 (Nov 11, 2015)

HOW5ER said:


> Im pretty sure the hard clearcoat stone chips more than softer say Jap stuff, my current VW has ridiculas stone chips as did my M3, must be down to the paint being more brittle or something???


Wouldn't be too sure on that. My GT86 paint would chip less if it were made of cheese spread!


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

s3 gold xxl and s40 arrived through the week. I dont have access to the the workshop this weekend and it looks like it is going to quite sunny today. Is there anything to be wary of applying these with the car out in the open?


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

The answer to the above is no. Only got one side done but happy with the results.



















Pic of the door


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## Sawel (Aug 5, 2016)

scooobydont said:


> s3 gold xxl and s40 arrived through the week. I dont have access to the the workshop this weekend and it looks like it is going to quite sunny today. Is there anything to be wary of applying these with the car out in the open?


Work on the side of the car that is out of the direct sunlight. By time time you've finished, the sun will have moved. Or, just shift the car so that the panels are out of the direct sun.

lol - replied to this before seeing your pictures.


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Beautiful job.:buffer: :thumb:

And beautiful scenery in the background.

Lovely work, 

Onwards and upwards.

Andy


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## Frog (Jun 28, 2013)

AndyN01 said:


> Beautiful job.:buffer: :thumb:
> 
> And beautiful scenery in the background.
> 
> Andy


I was thinking the same thing! If I lived there I am not sure how much polishing I would get done.


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## Devilman (Oct 9, 2016)

Great write ups. Is that Llangollen crags in the background? 
Dm


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

Devilman said:


> Great write ups. Is that Llangollen crags in the background?
> Dm


It's Craigleith, I am at the foot of the Ochils.

Will snap a few more this afternoon as they are stunning and I am going to try and get the other side of the car done.

Going to try the navy spider pads with the xxl as it was still quite a graft removing the deeper marks (was using the purple pad yesterday), results were excellent but if there is aneasier way, I would like to discover it. Will stick with the S40 and black hex as that was a godsend to work with after the stiffness of the cutting pads.

I have spotted some slight hologramming which has me a bit stumped as I worked both compound and polish pretty good.:buffer:

The bonnet will be the real test as I have already gone over that with S20, it took the swirling out but didnt really touch the deeper stuff.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

If you're still getting holograms then switch back to a polishing pad with S40 that should sort out the correct finish.


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

Good progress today although bonnet did not get done as was in the direct sun all day. Got the rear wing, door and front wing done. It was quicker with the navy pads but definitely hologramming also. Will try a polishing pad as suggested next (didnt see the suggestion till just now).

Was a bit miffed as had ordered a trial pot of OCD Nubula on Tuesday and it not arrived yet, so collonite was the order of the day.

I assume using the S40 with a polishing pad will remove the existing wax anyway so will be able to try nebula when I fix the holograming.

Thanks to all of those that have shown an interest, it does help when you want to give in for the day, lol :lol:

Quick pic from the back garden for those that like the hills. Farmer has the set the gorse on fire this happens every year, its all controlled.










Rear wing










Side all done



















Collonite 476s applied










You can kind of see the hologramming in this (another view of the hills)










To finish, a pic I took as I was out, that's Wallaces Monument in the background against a pink sky, it looked spectacular, unfortunately my phone is crap for pics


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

Don't be using the polishing pad and S40 to remove the wax you have on, this will cause you more problems. You need to use some kind cleaner and give it a guick clay/wipe down to remove as much of wax as you can then sort out the holograms.


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Try Gtechniq Panel Wipe or BH Cleanser fluid to remove the wax.

Andy


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## youngwangie (Oct 9, 2016)

Check out. ( THE FORENSIC DETAILER ) He does a Video with S20 & a Chemical Guy's Pad. 
He goes on a bit, but that's because he gives you so much information. 
Well worth checking out.


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

youngwangie said:


> Check out. ( THE FORENSIC DETAILER ) He does a Video with S20 & a Chemical Guy's Pad.
> He goes on a bit, but that's because he gives you so much information.
> Well worth checking out.


Cheers, already watched it, I have moved on to s3 xxl and s40, S20 is good but not giving me the level of cut I needed (well it did but requires a hell of a lot of passes!).


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

AndyN01 said:


> Try Gtechniq Panel Wipe or BH Cleanser fluid to remove the wax.
> 
> Andy


Not used the Gtechniq product but BH CF is the absolute business for this.


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

BH Cleaner fluid it is then.


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

Does IPA do the same cleaning job? I have that, currently 50/50 dilution, but have more.


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

scooobydont said:


> Does IPA do the same cleaning job? I have that, currently 50/50 dilution, but have more.


IPA (being an alcohol and a polar solvent) will not dissolve wax (although it's good at removing polish residue).


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## scooobydont (Feb 25, 2017)

Dang this is getting to be dear game, lol.


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

You can get IPA from CarChem

http://car-chem.com/store/ipa-isopropyl-alcohol-5?filter_name=ipa.

Andy.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

scooobydont said:


> Dang this is getting to be dear game, lol.


It gets worse :lol::lol:


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## HOW5ER (Aug 11, 2009)

BMW looks mint mate, I ordered my S20 on the 18th and still havent received it yet, Im beyond pi55ed off now.

Ive had my T5 van washed and prepped that long I ended up just using a orange pad with some menzerna 2400 just to see how it went, it got rid of the light stuff but didnt touch any defects with any kind of depth.

Keep up the good work bud!


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Hi How5er,

I'll bet it wasn't ordered from Dom & Ashley at Shopnshine? 

Maybe worth giving them a call next time. :thumb:

Andy

PS I've no connection with them - just constant fantastic knowledge, understanding and service


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## HOW5ER (Aug 11, 2009)

AndyN01 said:


> Hi How5er,
> 
> I'll bet it wasn't ordered from Dom & Ashley at Shopnshine?
> 
> ...


lol mate, it was elite car care but to be fair they gave it to royal mail and according to any tracking its never moved anywhere, I go back offshore on Friday so no correcting will be done now for a few weeks


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## AndyN01 (Feb 16, 2016)

Ah.

The wonders of the privatised Royal Mail. 

Sorry to here you won't get chance to play before heading offshore.

Take care out there.

Andy.


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