# Does Mr Policeman need educating?



## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Or is he right?

I got pulled for having cornering lights after he seeing me turn off a roundabout . I said they come on automatically but he said they're illegal . 

I got a warning this time .


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## Spannertail (May 18, 2007)

By cornering lights I presume you mean the front fog illuminates on the direction side which you are turning ? If so and only one comes on he needs educating


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Yes when turning. He was bloody rude too !


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

The police seem very keen on lights. There was someone else pulled for having their front fogs on which were actually daylight running LEDS. I've also heard this from people at work.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Exotica said:


> Or is he right?
> 
> I got pulled for having cornering lights after he seeing me turn off a roundabout . I said they come on automatically but he said they're illegal .
> 
> I got a warning this time .


He needs an attitude check. I hope you got his details, and will be filing a complaint at the station? VAG cars and Fiats have been doing it for years now, if he doesn't like it he needs to take it up with them.


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

So whats the gen on these random turn light things?
A fad or semi useful? Or something only old people need?


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

PugIain said:


> So whats the gen on these random turn light things?
> A fad or semi useful? Or something only old people need?


Nobody needs them and it adds very little useful light, I always thought it was one for the morons who don't pay attention to other people's indicators.


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

OvlovMike said:


> Nobody needs them and it adds very little useful light, I always thought it was one for the morons who don't pay attention to other people's indicators.


Depends on what car they are on I suppose.

My vRS does it and I find it very useful. Nothing to do with alerting people to the indicators. It's to do with illuminating the kerb area and has highlighted a few potholes I would have potentially missed in the past.

I too have been stopped for this but the policeman thought I had faulty lights as I was going off the 3rd exit on the roundabout and the vRS has intelligent lights in that when turning the wheel one direction up to 20mph, that side fog light comes on, however if you then indicate the opposite way the side you are indicating comes on.

The policeman was coming out the exit I went off and happened to look at my car at the point the lights changed over. He thought this was some sort of fault, came after me and stopped me. When I explained and demonstrated how they worked he just had a bit of a joke and said "Skoda's have come a long way these days and that is quite clever". I just told him he was jealous that he had to drive a Found On Rubbish Dump (Ford) focus diseasel. Which he laughed at and we parted company.

So yes the policeman needs educating. Just politely ask him to explain what he thinks is illegal, then direct him to the manufacturer to put right as all cars of the same type will also be illegal.


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## Titanium Htail (Mar 24, 2012)

The PC who crashed into the back of us does and will get it, so her Sgt said.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Exotica said:


> Or is he right?
> 
> I got pulled for having cornering lights after he seeing me turn off a roundabout . I said they come on automatically but he said they're illegal .
> 
> I got a warning this time .


Ive been waiting for this argument........

What you need to tell him that your vehicles EEC Type approval has permitted corning lights/ DRLs/ HID headlamps/ led tail lamps (all 4 are not mentioned in the UK Road vehicle lighting regulations) And as EEC law overrides uk law you are committing no offence....

Depending on what kind of a mood you are in and how far you want to push your luck you can also tell them that their LED light bar is in the eyes of UK law illegal as the provision is for a blue ROTATING light but led / strobes are permitted under eec law

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/6/made


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

OvlovMike said:


> Nobody needs them and it adds very little useful light,


Not driven a car at night on bendy back roads with corning lights fitted then?






here is a quick vid i made for my mate who wanted one for his IAM group my camera is crap in low light but as you can see it lights a much wider area up low down to pick out curbs and even the dopey cyclists reflectors at junctions when they dont have any lights on.... especially when looking out the side windows

Yes round town under street lights they are pointless imo but out of town on country lanes (i live in a rural area) they are great...


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

andy monty said:


> Ive been waiting for this argument........
> 
> What you need to tell him that your vehicles EEC Type approval has permitted corning lights/ DRLs/ HID headlamps/ led tail lamps (all 4 are not mentioned in the UK Road vehicle lighting regulations) And as EEC law overrides uk law you are committing no offence....
> 
> Depending on what kind of a mood you are in and how far you want to push your luck you can also tell them that their LED light bar is in the eyes of UK law illegal as the provision is for a blue ROTATING light but led / strobes are permitted under eec law


Why wait for an argument? Why not just stay calm quietly explain that is how your car came from the manufacturers and if he wants to take it further he can.


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## johnnyc (Nov 18, 2008)

first I have heard of these cornering lights. Are these the same idea as the head lights that turn when you turn aswell. I cant remember which car had that technology

i just found this.





does the fogs come on by indicator or do they come on when turning?


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

What i ment to say was i have been waiting to be pulled in for the cornering light and the ensuing debate..........

I have had such Debates / arguments with the police in the past, To do with Fire arms law and cycle lighting of all things. They on both times came over aggressive in the first instance despite me been polite and none aggressive. Many officers decide to make the law up on the spot or try and twist what you say and if your not sure on what your talking about can easily trip you up.....

(not saying all as i have had dealings in the past with some very friendly officers who will listen and take in what you explain to them)

take the argument i had over air rifle use:

Officer"a pellet could leave the boundary"

Me "be silly to say there is no chance of that ever happening"

Officer "your committing an offence"

Me "no im not"

O "you just said a pellet can leave the boundary"

Me " as a sensible air rifle user you have to assess the risk before using the gun. Its a bit like saying your committing the offence of causing death by dangerous driving just because you drive a car... Accidents do happen but you take every reasonable precaution to avoid it i only commit an offence if the pellet is proven to leave the boundary "

and yes i did contact the local sergeant over the event above (there was a bit more to it) not to complain as such but raise the issue and got an apology from him and he said that he would have a word with them) 

Dont get me wrong i have respect for the police but some really do the service no favours with their Im right your wrong attitude if they are not sure why not be honest and get on the radio and check?


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

I agree with AM, personally i would contact the force and sort of politely inform them that you consider the officer involved to of not taken account of all the factors, i mean i do not think it is fair considering you were driving within the road rules to be pulled for something that is from the manufacturer 

as mr monty quite rightly points out the EU (sorry to correct your EEC technically no longer exists) law overrides ours (if you want a case then you want Factortame (the spanish shipping boat that was in UK waters, the government introduced an act which i cannot remember that tried to ban them basically and the EU overrode the statute)....so yes i think the police need pulling down a peg or to and ensure the warning if it does go on the local system gets removed ASAP it has been unfairly put on you (some warnings do appear on local systems there is no sure way i can say yes it will or no it wont)...

edit: wrong case name i was day dreaming...


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

johnnyc said:


> first I have heard of these cornering lights. Are these the same idea as the head lights that turn when you turn aswell. I can remember which car had that technology


just about but these (modern cornering light only activate at less than 40kph though










immsmc these on the ds were controlled by a wire onto the front steering system that pushed and pulled the headlamp reflector on a spindle in time to the wheel been turned


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

johnnyc said:


> does the fogs come on by indicator or do they come on when turning?


Both, on VAG cars anyway. It will activate up to 20mph by steering input and/or indicators.


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

^ bit ot but you say firearms , You should have been with me the day I got "routinely" pulled over and I had my shotgun in my boot along with 500 cartridges , I was told by the officer 

PC -" Have you got a licence for that"

Me - "yes here it is"

PC - "You know your not allowed to carry this in your car"

Me - "Yes I am in the boot out of sight , how am I supposed to take it anywhere" 

PC - "your not allowed it has to stay locked in a cabinet" 

Me - "oh ok then so how am I supposed to go shooting ? this isn't what I was told by the Essex firearms division"

PC - " I need to check"

PC - "Take this as a warning and be on your way"

So he's given me a warning and let me go on my way ?????????? A warning for what I haven't done anything , Now if there was ever a reason to take something off of someone because I was breaking the law then that would have been it , Truth is he never knew what hew was doing so I got a warning . I too have repect for them but they really do need to know what they are talking about before they jump in with both feet


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

vRS Carl said:


> Both, on VAG cars anyway. It will activate up to 20mph by steering input and/or indicators.


closer to 25 mph  40kph is the stated figure in the eec regs unless thats a stated maximum and the VAG group have come down a few mph?

i do like the way the VAG cars fade the light out after they "cut out"  my Fiats just turn off


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

andy monty said:


> Not driven a car at night on bendy back roads with corning lights fitted then?
> 
> cornering lights - YouTube
> 
> ...


God only knows how we all managed the last 100 years of driving then.

Christ, people today can't cope without traction control, without ABS or now without little fairy lights illuminating irrelevant areas of road (given that you can't actually change direction fast enough for your dipped or main beams to not illuminate the part of the road you're going to be driving on!).

I'm going to hang up my driving gloves and return my licence, obviously my perceived ability to drive without having all of these 'critical' safety features is all in my head and I'm an utter liability.


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

OvlovMike said:


> God only knows how we all managed the last 100 years of driving then.
> 
> Christ, people today can't cope without traction control, without ABS or now without little fairy lights illuminating irrelevant areas of road (given that you can't actually change direction fast enough for your dipped or main beams to not illuminate the part of the road you're going to be driving on!).
> 
> I'm going to hang up my driving gloves and return my licence, obviously my perceived ability to drive without having all of these 'critical' safety features is all in my head and I'm an utter liability.


Or it could just be that you are averse to change and progression 

If you look at the light beam of any normal dipped beam there are dark spots in and around the front of the car. Yes you get a certain amount of light spill but not always enough to illuminate things properly. Hence the reason cornering lights were introduced.


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

OvlovMike said:


> God only knows how we all managed the last 100 years of driving then.
> 
> Christ, people today can't cope without traction control, without ABS or now without little fairy lights illuminating irrelevant areas of road (given that you can't actually change direction fast enough for your dipped or main beams to not illuminate the part of the road you're going to be driving on!).
> 
> I'm going to hang up my driving gloves and return my licence, obviously my perceived ability to drive without having all of these 'critical' safety features is all in my head and I'm an utter liability.


Your next car Mike?










 :driver:


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

Those dark spots at the very front of your car are behind areas of light which, given that you're moving, were illuminating the dark spot you're referring to now.

I'm not averse to change and progression, I think driver aids are a good idea (ESP, for the moment you push too far, ABS, for when someone does something stupid, radar cruise for the moment you forget that you left it on cruise when someone in front slows down) but lighting up areas in front of your car that you're too late to do anything about and should already have observed? C'mon, that's in the same league as pedestrian detection - rather than approach the topic of driver education (expecting it in a built up area, looking for gaps in parked cars) or stupid children and not teaching them the hazards of the road, it's far easier to just give someone a pillow and tell them they'll be fine?

It's the reason this country is full of stupid people, we make it easy to live without knowledge so these incompetents can lead a 'standard of living' without having to think about it, and it's breeding stupidity.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

andy monty said:


> Your next car Mike?


No, my last car was a 450bhp Audi with no traction control and no ESP. I somehow managed to do 20,000 miles in it without murdering anyone or killing myself, including catching slides next to artics when the back end would break away unexpectedly. My next car will have over 300bhp (sadly the car policy in the office limits how much fuel I can burn) but I'll be sure to get lights fitted all over the front of it so I can see through things and get a row of 6 titanium spikes fitted like touring car jacks so that if I need to stop in a hurry because I've not anticipated the situation developing, I'll be able to.

We need to teach people how to drive, not give them cars that drive themselves. Just look at the number of morons who jump in mummy's car after passing their test and stuff it because they got taught how to pass a test.


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

OvlovMike said:


> but lighting up areas in front of your car that you're too late to do anything about and should already have observed?


So you can see see round dark corners then can you?

Your missing the point here. Your cars headlights are on a fixed path and move with the front of the car. Even my vRS which has cornering headlights, doesn't swivel enough to illuminate the edge of the kerb at slow speed when moving around a corner. The beam of the headlight is not wide enough to accommodate this and the foglight is due to it's design

Hence the invention of cornering foglights.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

You're missing the point - you can't turn your car at any speed into a space that the dipped beam doesn't illuminate, even if it's a case of it then going dark for a fraction of a second?

It's a marketing con, which mugs buy into under the veil of safety. Safety is looking at it when it was lit in the first place - once upon a time drivers used to complain that the lights didn't light up far enough in front of them and in the dark they weren't able to read as far ahead as they were used to doing, now we have people saying that stuff 2 feet in front of them needs to be lit up so they can see where they're going?!


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

R7KY D said:


> ^ bit ot but you say firearms , You should have been with me the day I got "routinely" pulled over and I had my shotgun in my boot along with 500 cartridges , I was told by the officer
> 
> PC -" Have you got a licence for that"
> 
> ...


mad mad someone has read the Home office advice to say you need a storage container in the car to transport it...when in fact

"When firearms are being transported, the certificate
holder must take reasonable precautions to
make sure that the firearm, ammunition or
shotgun is kept safe.

*If you do not transport firearms and ammunition
very often, you should not normally need to have a
security device fitted in the vehicle."*

the statute contains nothing about frequency of transport. :lol:


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

OvlovMike said:


> You're missing the point - you can't turn your car at any speed into a space that the dipped beam doesn't illuminate, even if it's a case of it then going dark for a fraction of a second?
> 
> It's a marketing con, which mugs buy into under the veil of safety. Safety is looking at it when it was lit in the first place - once upon a time drivers used to complain that the lights didn't light up far enough in front of them and in the dark they weren't able to read as far ahead as they were used to doing, now we have people saying that stuff 2 feet in front of them needs to be lit up so they can see where they're going?!


Ok we will agree to disagree then.

I do see your point, but just to humour me next time you turn down a 90deg or sharper corner tell me that you then still think your headlights will illuminate it all points nearest the kerb before you get to them.

I can guarantee you they won't. If i could draw this for you i would


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

Hopefully this helps


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

That helps illustrate my point perfectly. The spread of the dipped headlamps on both occasions is sufficient to cover any ground that the front wheels of the car will cover. If you're doing a 90 degree bend then you're going slowly enough to be able to respond to anything that pool illuminates, if not then I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're driving like a ******. Not least of which, having driven 7 or 8 cars with these lights, I can safely say that that is a VERY optimistic view of how much they illuminate!

It really is that simple! The world survived without them and we're all here today, just because someone did it doesn't make it a good idea. Just look at Sunny Delight, or nuclear weapons. Just because you can, doesn't mean it's an intelligent thing to do...


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## Sirmally2 (Feb 28, 2011)

Yes he does... About his manners and the law! It wouldnt be the first time ive had to throw it back in their face and have to report them


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

Does Mr Policeman need educating? 

Yes and although they can't be expected to know or even be aware of every single line regarding every law some do appear to have a rather large "gap" in their knowledge and I think to gloss over it by saying "I'll let you off with a warning" in unacceptable and unprofessional.


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

OvlovMike said:


> That helps illustrate my point perfectly. The spread of the dipped headlamps on both occasions is sufficient to cover any ground that the front wheels of the car will cover. If you're doing a 90 degree bend then you're going slowly enough to be able to respond to anything that pool illuminates, if not then I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're driving like a ******. Not least of which, having driven 7 or 8 cars with these lights, I can safely say that that is a VERY optimistic view of how much they illuminate!
> 
> It really is that simple! The world survived without them and we're all here today, just because someone did it doesn't make it a good idea. Just look at Sunny Delight, or nuclear weapons. Just because you can, doesn't mean it's an intelligent thing to do...


I've never once said they are necessary. Just they are a good idea and work.

Just as you said things like ABS etc are good things, I could throw back to you that you too must be driving like a **** if you need ABS/ESP etc. You should be driving slow enough and careful enough as well as paying attention and spotting that child that's about to run out in the road (because your headlights have already shown you them ) to be able to stop in time. F1 cars don't have ABS/ESP and they drive at far higher speeds.

So just as you think ABS etc is a good idea, I think anything that gives someone a chance to spot something they may not have seen otherwise is also a good idea.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

uruk hai said:


> I think to gloss over it by saying "I'll let you off with a warning" in unacceptable and unprofessional.


Absolutely. I know they don't really want to extend their workload but if you can demonstrate the cornering lights thing functioning as part of the standard manufacturer controls then I think the most appropriate thing to do at that point is to take the details of the person and vehicle in question and tell them that you're letting them on their way for now because the reasoning sounds entirely plausible and that they'll investigate to clarify their knowledge, apologising for taking their time and will let you know what the outcome is.


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## OvlovMike (Jul 19, 2011)

vRS Carl said:


> I've never once said they are necessary.
> 
> Just as you said things like ABS etc are good things, I could throw back to you that you too must be driving like a **** if you need ABS/ESP etc. You should be driving slow enough and careful enough as well as paying attention and spotting that child that's about to run out in the road (because your headlights have already shown you them ) to be able to stop in time. F1 cars don't have ABS/ESP and they drive at far higher speeds.
> 
> So just as you think ABS etc is a good idea, I think anything that gives someone a chance to spot something they may not have seen otherwise is also a good idea.


The difference of opinion I have there is there are too many morons on the road who will randomly hit the brakes at the bottom of a motorway slip road, so if you're approaching them at a normal pace and they do that there's very little you can do and at that point wellying on the brakes is about all there is for you - ABS then gives you the ability to concentrate on steering around the obstruction. ESP is especially useful for situations that you can or cannot predict, or to rescue you when you end up in a bit of a pickle. Diesel on a roundabout is a prime example, you can expect it but the degree of traction loss is completely unpredictable from the driver's seat, and often these things are invisible in the dry. Granted a skilled driver would be able to control the slide as I did when my car decided it liked the look of the underside of an artic, but that doesn't mean that I would be able to do it a second time or that everyone could be expected to catch that.


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## vRS Carl (Aug 14, 2011)

Thanks for the explanation of what ABS is for. 

I never knew and just thought it was a gimmick and marketing


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

OvlovMike as you say its all about attitude, about 10 years ago I was stopped for speeding and considering the fact that I simply was going too fast the attitude of the officer was amazing. He was friendly and explained it all to me in a very straight and adult manner, he wasn't patronising or arrogant and as he sent me on my way he even apologised to me for "ruining my night" !

About 7 years ago I was hit head on when another car was pushed across the road into me and the attitude of the officer who attended was shocking, two of us were injured and all he was interested in was clearing the road and giving us all a breath test. He then went on to lecture me about the benefits of having a modern "safe" car instead of my "old" immaculate and now written off MK2 16V Golf !


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## Multipla Mick (Feb 5, 2006)

OvlovMike - I agree with so much of what you say. If I quoted all your good posts this one would be fifty yards deep :lol: 
I'm of the same attitude, if cornering lights are so good, how come they weren't widely adopted and used since they first appeared way back on the Citroen DS? (as is often the case, a lot of seemingly new innovations are nothing of the sort, it's just manufacturers and marketing depts wanting to get one over their rivals by revisiting some old technology or thinking half the time. Give it some marketing spin and glitter and bingo, the new must have.) 

Your comment about just because you can doesn't mean it is a good idea should be put on advertising hoardings on every corner and floodlit at night :lol: It's something I say to a geeky mate often, a mate who thinks that microwave ovens that also included a computer monitor and keyboard to allow you to surf the net while your beans are swivelling about inside is somehow a great idea.
So many things are gimmicks and have little actual useful value. If someone likes them fine, just don't rely on them. The best tool for any driver is the driver himself. Or herself. I'd flipping ban auto headlights, auto wipers and especially self parking (except maybe for disabled people where it might be useful). If anyone thinks they need auto wipers or lights, or they are a good idea, they shouldn't be driving in my opinion :lol:
ABS? Yep, on balance a good thing, but like most things it's not without it's own drawbacks, namely a pet thing of mine, risk compensation. When ABS first came out on certain models, those cars fitted with it were getting involved in more accidents than their non ABS brethren, because people are fundamentally stupid and misunderstand what ABS is and how it works. They just thought it meant they could always stop in time so drove far too fast far too close and so on. Same with the motorcycle helmet law, the number of fatalities stayed roughly the same as before the law came in, because the accident rate shot up and the law of averages compensated. 

No, before my rant gets any longer, I am all for making the driver think and concentrate at all times. If I had my way I'd make all cars noisy and draughty and with heavy gearchanges and clutches and steering and stuff, Keep people awake and concentrating on the job in hand, make them think and appreciate properly, what they are doing :lol: It's the old thing of the safest aid they could fit to a car is not a fecking airbag in the steering wheel, it's a solid steel spike 
If a biker only feels safe riding in full leathers and all the gear, they should try riding naked, they'd be a far safer and better rider 

Anyway, Mike, I salute your straightforward thinking, there is not enough of it around these days :thumb:

*Some things I say might be a bit daft, like riding a bike naked, big ass spikes in steering wheels, but the principle, I believe, is sound.

Phew... I need coffee... and a lie down :lol:

Oh... I haven't been on topic at all, so my contribution on that score is yes, the Police do need educating sometimes, or should think more before acting. Ask any photographer told to delete his photos then let go free. If they'd done anything wrong, then the photos are evidence. If they haven't done anything wrong, then there is no call for deleting the photos, yet this is or was quite widespread.


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

^^^ And breath.......... :thumb:


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

As my mum always said with cars - even electric windows and the like, when we moaned about her buying a Corsa with "keep fit" windows... 

"well, thats just more than can go wrong".

:lol:


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## BeeDubz (Mar 26, 2011)

Maybe I can help , as I am a policeman. 
Before I start, let me say , there are cops that I can't stand and frankly their attitude stinks. 
As for getting pulled for lights on the car etc, many times this is an excuse to pull you over (not that we need one) but stopping cars is a huge source of intel and other crimes (drink and drugs) . 

However, there are many cops who, as mentioned, no little about some aspects of the law. It is impossible to be an expert on everything. 

For the person who knew more about firearms licensing than the bobby, I don't doubt that for 1 minute, but that cop would know more than you about say, public order etc. (not sticking up for him, just playing the neutral). 

As for poor attitudes, I agree, it's not acceptable and gives us all a bad name, challenge them, if they continue. Complain. 

I've given 2 tickets out now in 3 years one for mobile phone (because he would not accept he was wrong) and one for a woman holding a new born on her lap ! 

We are not all **** holes, I am one of you in a uniform,


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## Multipla Mick (Feb 5, 2006)

-PJB- said:


> As my mum always said with cars - even electric windows and the like, when we moaned about her buying a Corsa with "keep fit" windows...
> 
> "well, thats just more than can go wrong".
> 
> :lol:


Funny you should say that, but a mate's R1200GS bike has had two hair tearingly frustrating problems recently. Both caused by gimmicky guff, although both are also in the name of safety. His tyre pressure monitoring valve in his rear tyre has decided to leak air all the time, so he had a constant dash warning and a tyre that would go slowly flat (took about a week) He has since removed the valve and it's gubbins and replaced it with a conventional valve.)
Also the anti starting in gear system decided to throw a strop. The bike would be in neutral, the clutch lever pulled in, but the gear indicator on the dash (who needs one of those?) would decide it was in third, or first, or maybe second, whatever took it's fancy really, and wouldn't let the thing start. Fecking useless crap that disables the damn bike needlessly. He also had trouble with his sidestand cut out switch I think, as did I on one of my bikes, when the obvious answer is just to fit the sidestand with a big spring, so it flips up easily.

'More to go wrong' is bad enough when it just stops working, or means a warning light coming on, but when it also then disables the thing, needlessly thanks to all these computers thinking there is a fault, then that's just bloody ridiculous.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

R7KY D said:


> ^ bit ot but you say firearms , You should have been with me the day I got "routinely" pulled over and I had my shotgun in my boot along with 500 cartridges , I was told by the officer
> 
> PC -" Have you got a licence for that"
> 
> ...


A couple of things ive read on this thread about the police, a bit off topic i know but still. Back in the 60s, 70,s and 80's even dear i say 90's the majority of kids, people etc where **** scared of there local bobby but there is a difference between then and now, back then they wear called police men/women and they where someone who would know your parents names etc they would help and support you and your community etc where as now they are called police officers. The difference is they are here to hit targets, to beat there other officers at there arrests tally etc. the majority of police officers will find any way possible to get an arrest or give a ticket and will try and do you for anything, They have an attitude from the off to scare people but to also winde people up who know they have done nothing wrong in order for you to slip up by swearing etc. They will look for any oportunity to make an arrest or give a ticket. All down to them going from been a human being to a revenue earner.


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## BeeDubz (Mar 26, 2011)

^^^ not true at all. We are no longer measured on targets only customer satisfaction. So your comment about doing anything to give a ticket or arrest is rubbish, as I've just said (if you read it) I've given 2 tickets in 3 years, words of advice always work for me and the driver prob thinks I'm not a bad bloke and gives a positive impression of the force, which is all the bosses are interested in now. 

So sorry but your wrong.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

BeeDubz said:


> ^^^ not true at all. We are no longer measured on targets only customer satisfaction. So your comment about doing anything to give a ticket or arrest is rubbish, as I've just said (if you read it) I've given 2 tickets in 3 years, words of advice always work for me and the driver prob thinks I'm not a bad bloke and gives a positive impression of the force, which is all the bosses are interested in now.
> 
> So sorry but your wrong.


well you learn something new everyday. I see read an artical a while ago about how society works and i got the impression that how things are done. Cheers for putting me right. But like you said you are no longer run the way i mentioned but you was at some point which is where things went wrong, people lost confidence with the police purely down to that reason.

I do on the other hand think things have changed in how things are run and the view of the local police officer now. There isnt a local bobby anymore patroling the streets on our local estate at least anyway so maybe thats where the police should be targetting and there for reducing the stereotype of been a **** with a hat. lol.

all in all though regardless of how people see the police these days, cutting the force by 20% is wreckless and will only make things worse. Unlimited funding should be given to you guys to help sort this dump of a country we live in these days.


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## *Das* (Aug 9, 2010)

OvlovMike said:


> It really is that simple! The world survived without them and we're all here today,


We survived long enough without Seatbelts, ABS, Side Impact bars and Air bags too, but we moved on and even more people survived due to their addition. Cornering lamps will certainly help especially when turning right as the beam pattern of headlights is set to illuminate the left side of the road, more than the right. No one is suggesting that its not possible to be a good careful driver without them, but ever little helps.


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## BeeDubz (Mar 26, 2011)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> well you learn something new everyday. I see read an artical a while ago about how society works and i got the impression that how things are done. Cheers for putting me right. But like you said you are no longer run the way i mentioned but you was at some point which is where things went wrong, people lost confidence with the police purely down to that reason.
> 
> I do on the other hand think things have changed in how things are run and the view of the local police officer now. There isnt a local bobby anymore patroling the streets on our local estate at least anyway so maybe thats where the police should be targetting and there for reducing the stereotype of been a **** with a hat. lol.
> 
> all in all though regardless of how people see the police these days, cutting the force by 20% is wreckless and will only make things worse. Unlimited funding should be given to you guys to help sort this dump of a country we live in these days.


I agree , the cuts can only spell disaster.
And although every area does have a local bobby , they don't get time to police like they used to due to the cuts. If you saw my workload you'd be shocked.

For instance, tomorrow when I go in, I'll probably get allocated an incident that no one has managed to get to , also I'll have to try and do enquiries on my 6 or so crimes that I've kept ownership of, including 2 theft of motor vehicles, a fraud and an assault. That's if it's a normal day, I may get allocated a prisoner to interview, as well as responding to 999 calls that come in.

My section only run with a Sergent and 4 bobbies to cover a huge area, before the cuts we always had a minimum of 6 cops ! Add on top of this the missing persons that take priority, assisting ambulance service in entry to properties, we don't get time to do much stopping cars lol.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be lack of confidence in police, but if the public knew how much the average bobby has to juggle now they'd understand why they don't see many walking the beat


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## Needs a clean (May 24, 2008)

R7KY D said:


> ^ bit ot but you say firearms , You should have been with me the day I got "routinely" pulled over and I had my shotgun in my boot along with 500 cartridges , I was told by the officer
> 
> PC -" Have you got a licence for that"
> 
> ...


I got pulled by a local PC who had only ever dealt with ducks being on the road, and a couple of kids not having lights on their bikes, and he told me that my Shotgun had to be in its locked cabinet 24 hours a day (if i ever get pulled from the rozzers when the Shotty is in the car i immediatley declare it to them and show them my license). I politely advised him that i would find it incredibly difficult to shoot any Pheasants while the gun was locked in my cabinet.

He got real arsey and threatened to lift me for carrying a shotgun that was not securely stowed away. It was in a slip and under the false floor section of my landrover!!! Complete ar$e that did not have a clue what was going on!!!!


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## GR33N (Apr 5, 2009)

DasArab said:


> We survived long enough without Seatbelts, ABS, Side Impact bars and Air bags too, but we moved on and even more people survived due to their addition. Cornering lamps will certainly help especially when turning right as the beam pattern of headlights is set to illuminate the left side of the road, more than the right. No one is suggesting that its not possible to be a good careful driver without them, but ever little helps.


^^^What he said

I dont think anyone in this thread ever claimed to need or want corner lighting, alot of its for show to look good and there are obviously some practical safety benefits.

Just because people survived without something is no reason to stifle progress, im fairly sure nobody on the forum craps in a hole in the ground or lives in a cave. I presume we're all posting these messages to each other via Royal Mail are we?


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

To be honest it's an easy mistake to make. Couple of months back filling up at the local garage chap pulls up at the next pump and I thought he had a fog lamp out so shouted across "Think you have a bulb out mate" He smiles and says tah, they're cornering lamps I get it once or twice a month. 

I feel sorry for plod nowadays, they're spread so thin on the ground. Long gone is the the day when there was a police house every few miles and you could stop for a natter with the local Bobby. Like everyone they do their best and sometimes get it wrong or have a bad day. It's difficult to be nice to someone when the previous call was some toe-rag spitting one them. It's not a job I'd like to do.


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## BeeDubz (Mar 26, 2011)

DampDog said:


> To be honest it's an easy mistake to make. Couple of months back filling up at the local garage chap pulls up at the next pump and I thought he had a fog lamp out so shouted across "Think you have a bulb out mate" He smiles and says tah, they're cornering lamps I get it once or twice a month.
> 
> I feel sorry for plod nowadays, they're spread so thin on the ground. Long gone is the the day when there was a police house every few miles and you could stop for a natter with the local Bobby. Like everyone they do their best and sometimes get it wrong or have a bad day. It's difficult to be nice to someone when the previous call was some toe-rag spitting one them. It's not a job I'd like to do.


That's exactly right mate, I try and treat everyone right, but as you rightly say, you don't know what that cop has just dealt with. Only last week I went from taking a body out if the canal, taking a kid into police protection, then being involved in the fire that killed the 6 kids then had to sit and listen to a bloke winging that his ex was calling him names on Facebook. It's very hard to stay professional when a majority of people want police to sort their non police issues out.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

How is it a easy mistake . I explained and showed how they worked but he said any lights on below the bumper line is illegal. I
dont expect the Police to know everything but you can't reason with someone who thinks they are right all the time.


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## BeeDubz (Mar 26, 2011)

Exotica said:


> How is it a easy mistake . I explained and showed how they worked but he said any lights on below the bumper line is illegal. I
> dont expect the Police to know everything but you can't reason with someone who thinks they are right all the time.


In this case he clearly has not got a scooby. Best thing to do Is nod politely and drive off into sunset lol. You won't win with people like that.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I got pulled one night heading into St Andrews at the first roundabout at the Old Course hotel.

He was standing in the middle of the roundabout and flagged me off down the road and I intentionally stopped 20-30 yards away from the exit not to cause a blockage.

He then did not approach the car and I was a little baffled to what was going on. The road was wide enough that I could turn full circle to which I did and stopped.

I was firstly accused of thinking about doing a runner. Strange that accusation since I was sure I had not done a thing wrong.

Then I was told the reason I was stopped was something was wrong with my car. 

He was really trying to stir it saying that "something is wrong with your car, isn't there?" in a bad manner.

I was totally baffled and he had already started to write the ticket before he said that not only did I have my fog lamps on one wasn't working.

He wouldn't let me get a word in and I finally had to be a bit more forceful and point out that they were indeed corner lamps and when he flagged me down I was heading straight and they would have been off.

His fellow PC was killing himself laughing and this only angered the other PC more who then started becoming even more aggressive and was now desperate to nail me for something.

Nothing came of it as everything was correct but the PC was a complete and utter prat.

Last year I got stopped for racing.

A guy passed me doing about 80MPH in a 70MPH zone and then instantly moved back into the inside lane and slowed down.

I moved out to pass just as we approached a couple of roundabouts which we went through side by side and where the speed limit drops from 70MPH down to 40MPH.

Came off the second roundabout 2nd, 3rd and into 4th gear and a quick glance in the mirror I could see a highway patrol car in the background.

He flagged the two of us off into a bus stop. We were accused of knowing each other and racing.

Apparently according to the police we were racing and as I pointed out I never once broke the speed limit of the road. I was doing 38MPH in the 40MPH zone where my car could have easily cracked 120MPH in that distance if I was racing and my engine never went over 2500RPM.

However I was "you don't have to be speeding to be racing"

I was given a hard time and lectured about my driving only to be left to go on my way.

Both incidents unacceptable due to the conduct of the police.


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

Exotica said:


> How is it a easy mistake . I explained and showed how they worked but he said any lights on below the bumper line is illegal. I
> dont expect the Police to know everything but you can't reason with someone who thinks they are right all the time.


I meant it's an easy mistake to see one lamp instead of two and assume there is a fault with the car. A tiny fraction of cars on the road have cornering lights as standard.

It's just life, some people are easy to get along with, some are just arsey, it's in their nature. Some coppers are pr#cks, but the majority are decent enough, considering the section of society the deal with the most.


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## Lloyd71 (Aug 21, 2008)

Cornering lights? Pah. What you want is a tiny yellow hatchback with the headlight power of 5 candles. That's how real men drive. 

On a more serious note, I've not come across a situation where I'd actually benefit from cornering lights as I do most of my driving in town or on the motorway. They seem to cause more problems than they solve from what I've heard so far.


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