# Which 9H coating/sealant?



## josadler (Jul 14, 2010)

Which 9H coating gives the best shine?
I assume they all protect well.
Which one has the best dirtrepelling properties/ beading/sheeting, keeps these properties and is the least fussy to combine with other products?


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## Rascal_69 (Sep 20, 2009)

Polish angel cosmic 9h sounds like it will suit your needs


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## josadler (Jul 14, 2010)

I saw You used Sonax brilliant shine over BOSS. Have You any experience combining it with Polish Angel Cosmic?


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## efib (Sep 18, 2012)

I think that art de shine has a 9H product too , take a look at their section !


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## PaulinLincs (Jan 16, 2011)

efib said:


> I think that art de shine has a 9H product too , take a look at their section !


The certainly do and i have some on order


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## Rascal_69 (Sep 20, 2009)

josadler said:


> I saw You used Sonax brilliant shine over BOSS. Have You any experience combining it with Polish Angel Cosmic?


No no

My bos is still only bos on the car. 
Wheels are coated in sonax net. 
Carbon in gtechique c2v3.

Not used any of polish angel yet.

Going to be using polish angel master sealant on a tt i am currently doing. 
Topped up with autofinesse illusion.

Not used my cosmic yet. Still in its box


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## ronwash (Mar 26, 2011)

ADS,just orded some.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Rascal_69 said:


> Polish angel cosmic 9h sounds like it will suit your needs


This is not true 9H, its 9H on the pencil test...... Or about 2-2.5H. :thumb:


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

There's only a few true 9H products on the market. ArtDeShine 9H, Ceramic Pro 9H, and Opti-Coat as far as I'm aware. Remember 10H is diamond hardness!!!


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

-Raven- said:


> There's only a few true 9H products on the market. ArtDeShine 9H, Ceramic Pro 9H, and Opti-Coat as far as I'm aware. Remember 10H is diamond hardness!!!


How can you make sure that those are really 9H products? Every manufacturers try to praise their own product.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

sm81 said:


> How can you make sure that those are really 9H products? Every manufacturers try to praise their own product.


Test data. Even then, that doesn't necessarily translate into real world results.....

And yes, this industry is full of misleading information and downright lies!!!


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## blackS2000 (Aug 4, 2010)

I'm assuming we are talking about coating hardness when referring to 9h ?( excuse my ignorance if I'm wrong ).

If so , how do manufacturer's test these coating's ? 

I've seen plastic lighter's and such like being dragged across paint work but have not seen any real world test's !

My thought's on using these type of product's is for some resistance against wash and drying induced mark's and swirling .

I suppose a manufacturer of one of these coating's actually showing how a coating stand's up to being washed using the " eight eastern European method " i.e. before and after shot's ,would be a bit too much expect !!!


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## e_king (Oct 11, 2012)

Is there an approved method/scale that is official in these testing and data in the coating world? Polishangel is the only product I've seen come up with a document. But hey, I'm not an expert.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

e_king said:


> Is there an approved method/scale that is official in these testing and data in the coating world? Polishangel is the only product I've seen come up with a document. But hey, I'm not an expert.


There certainly is. They basically slide a tungsten carbide needle over the sample, and see how much weight they need to penetrate the surface, up to 2kg. Opti-Coat was about 1.1kg from memory. I'll try and find the data. :thumb:


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## e_king (Oct 11, 2012)

-Raven- said:


> There certainly is. They basically slide a tungsten carbide needle over the sample, and see how much weight they need to penetrate the surface, up to 2kg. Opti-Coat was about 1.1kg from memory. I'll try and find the data. :thumb:


It would be much appriciated. I find these things interesting but not having the time or knowledge where to look. But as you said earlier, in the end it's real world performance that matters. 1,1kg, that quite some load on a coating.


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## blackS2000 (Aug 4, 2010)

Unfortunately I'm not in the habit of sliding tungsten kneedle's across my paint !

Having said that I've never visited a " hand car wash " place either .

I just think that a test involving the " hand car wash " brigade would show a much more realistic approach in paint protection if these coating's do indeed offer some form of scratch resistance .

After 4 year's of trying most on the market , on soft Honda paint , I have become a little skeptical with these claim's !


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Here's the Opti-Coat test data.

http://www.optimumcarcare.com.au/XC3166CoatingTesting.pdf

For those who don't know, CSIRO is Australia's national science agency.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

blackS2000 said:


> Unfortunately I'm not in the habit of sliding tungsten kneedle's across my paint !
> 
> Having said that I've never visited a " hand car wash " place either .
> 
> ...


Yep, even Opti-Coat gets swirled.

Remember when you apply say a 9H coating to your paint, it doesn't mean your paint is now 9H.... From testing, it usually adds about 2H-3H or so, which is still a significant improvement. :thumb:


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

-Raven- said:


> Here's the Opti-Coat test data.
> 
> http://www.optimumcarcare.com.au/XC3166CoatingTesting.pdf
> 
> For those who don't know, CSIRO is Australia's national science agency.


Now thats more of a selling point.

That been said as ever quality of product application we are often up against it with our climate and well stuffed if no where to coat the vehicle out of the real world environment, grit dust heat water and vapour.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

james_death said:


> Now thats more of a selling point.
> 
> That been said as ever quality of product application we are often up against it with our climate and well stuffed if no where to coat the vehicle out of the real world environment, grit dust heat water and vapour.


yes, for sure! How many times have you seen somebody blame a product that didn't last, when you know their prep was poor?


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

As ever all in the prep and the tough coatings need some proper care and prep and curing.


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## blackS2000 (Aug 4, 2010)

I do not get it 

If I apply a 9h coating to my paint Obviously my (soft) paint will stay soft 

The 9h coating that has a certificate from " certified 4 U " once applied , dos'nt cure to 9h ( 1 point less than diamond hardness )  but to only 2h or so ?

If that is the case why is it advertised as 9h ? 

How much harder is 2h ? Or , in layman's term's , how much more scratch resistant is my paintwork ? 

Are we talking no swirl's if using lambswool wash mitt / 2 bucket method /de-ionised water and blow dried ?

Minor swirl's using above method but with drying towel . etc .

I'm just trying to get some idea of real world scratch resistance . It's no good having a scratch resistance coating that is not resistant to normal dirt that get's on car's .

All I can say is the dirt in my area is sharper than tungsten carbide needle's and I'm a bit peed off by all the hype surrounding these coating's .


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

blackS2000 said:


> I do not get it
> 
> If I apply a 9h coating to my paint Obviously my (soft) paint will stay soft
> 
> ...


no, you missed it completely.

If your paint was 5H to start with, you might end up with 7H. :thumb:

As for swirling, just think about the force exerted on that one microfiber thread that causes the mark! A microfiber thread is about 1/100th the diameter of a human hair. That's a pretty fine blade edge!


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## e_king (Oct 11, 2012)

Thank you -Raven-


blackS2000 said:


> Unfortunately I'm not in the habit of sliding tungsten kneedle's across my paint !...
> ...After 4 year's of trying most on the market , on soft Honda paint , I have become a little skeptical with these claim's !


Me neither but this info point me in the right direction of what I shouls expect of the product. (It will probably not perform like this in real life)


-Raven- said:


> Yep, even Opti-Coat gets swirled.
> 
> Remember when you apply say a 9H coating to your paint, it doesn't mean your paint is now 9H.... From testing, it usually adds about 2H-3H or so, which is still a significant improvement. :thumb:


This I´m aware of and therefore don´t expect more. Still, the harder coating will add more to the surface than the not so hard coating.

I have PA COSMIC on my car today and I don´t get as much of swirls as before.
Haven´t tried OC or AD yet...


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## josadler (Jul 14, 2010)

Thanks for all Your information.
The reason i started this thread, is because i bought a new Audi A5 and i want to protect the paint as good as possible and want to have/preserve the best esthetic result, after prep, because i don't have a lot of time taking care of this car and i go to a hand car wash every (2) week(s).


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## PaulinLincs (Jan 16, 2011)

So I can't put the artdeshine 9H on then drive through hedges ? Bummer


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

PaulinLincs said:


> So I can't put the artdeshine 9H on then drive through hedges ? Bummer


So you cant use a wire brush to take the bird poop of, oh poop.:lol:


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

I saw some interesting results on the many different sealants on my car after 12 months yes these coatings will swirl but not to the degree the paint on its own might couple that with a good wash technique and if you have the spare money a DI water filter forget the expensive wax buy the water filter first wax wont protect from swirls after all less you touch your car the less chance of swirls longer the car stays looking good.

what I did find is as the coatings degraded over time the swirls i purposely put in degraded as well the swirls were in the coating not the paint after 12 months it meant all the car needed was a very light machine polish to get it perfect again in turn saving my clear-coat.

The only company I have seen true test results from is optimum opti-coat I did see some from cquartz but not on there latest products.


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Goodfella36 said:


> I saw some interesting results on the many different sealants on my car after 12 months yes these coatings will swirl but not to the degree the paint on its own might couple that with a good wash technique and if you have the spare money a DI water filter forget the expensive wax buy the water filter first wax wont protect from swirls after all less you touch your car the less chance of swirls longer the car stays looking good.
> 
> what I did find is as the coatings degraded over time the swirls i purposely put in degraded as well the swirls were in the coating not the paint after 12 months it meant all the car needed was a very light machine polish to get it perfect again in turn saving my clear-coat.
> 
> The only company I have seen true test results from is optimum opti-coat I did see some from cquartz but not on there latest products.


When did you publish your findings from your test?


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## Goodfella36 (Jul 21, 2009)

sm81 said:


> When did you publish your findings from your test?


I am afraid I have not I lost the very last video before car was machined you saw some of the pictures I sent you which were last to be taken I sold my camera and the card sd card installed in it I thought I had taken the video of it but have not got it on pc I could post all the rest of vids pics etc as I went a long some on you tube already but all seems bit pointless without very last video yes I was fuming with myself when I realised.

But in my eyes only on what I saw on my car and in the chemical testing I did this is my PERSONAL opinion.

1st Opti-Coat Pro Version 
2nd Opti-coat 2.0
3rd joint 3rd Cquartz Finest/ Max protect V1 and V2 really was to close to call but the fact is max protect was 2 coats against one of Finest though Finest was changed couple of months ago so no idea on new version.

5th and 6th were G3 Glasscoat and system X (Ceramishield) again to close to call as all the same product, what was captured and what I would not have seen if they were not against other products were they hold on to the dirt more then others (didn't release it as well after a rainstorm) but lasted well.

7th Gtechniq C1 lost its hydrophobic properties before others and showed more marks.

8th Nanolex ultra was the first to lost its hydrophobic side not very chemical resistant at all.

9th Gtechniq EXO V1 best beading by far but just did'nt last and little chemical resistance.

For my next new car I will be using opti-coat topped after 7 days with something like ADS hybrid or Sonax pns this is to help combat any watermark issues.

watermarks were a big issue with all the coatings some actually quite deep in to the paint and something that needs to be worked on by all manufactures.

If I was having my car done by a professional there would only be one choice Opti-Coat PRO it stood head and shoulders above the rest after 12 months.

its actually hard for me to say that as I would of liked Max protect Cquartz or Gtechniq to come out top but I have to be honest with what I saw. on my own car other results may vary of course.


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## Davemm (Mar 9, 2009)

After reading all of the above and helping out over the weekend in which the car was washed and machined I certainly agreed with the above in terms of the results. The top three were the most prominent and the line could still be seen but the opticoat pro deff had the edge and still had the best water behaviour and fastest sheeting although all were very slow. 

Ease of use and the time the coating lasts opticoat has to be the winner here


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

-Raven- said:


> Here's the Opti-Coat test data.
> 
> http://www.optimumcarcare.com.au/XC3166CoatingTesting.pdf
> 
> For those who don't know, CSIRO is Australia's national science agency.


Good on Joel for doing the test, makes a change for someone to go out of their way to do this sort of thing to test a product they sell so they can back up the claims.



blackS2000 said:


> I do not get it
> 
> If I apply a 9h coating to my paint Obviously my (soft) paint will stay soft
> 
> ...


I'm had Opti-coat 2.0 on my car for over 18 months and my car was swirl free when I applied it and when I recently machine polished it off the swirls were minimal and my wash process/care for the paint in that time wasn't the best (the car went months without being washed, had Megs Wheel brightner used to remove water spots, went through a car wash ).

In the last few months I've machine polished the car and gone back to a Nuba wax and progressed to coatings and in those few months the swirls are as bad, if not a little worse than they ever were with the OC 2.0.

So it does offer a very good marr resistance.

The thing that really put me off it was the dust attraction, worse than any other product I've used. which could probably have been cured with a spritz of FK 425 after every wash.

1



-Raven- said:


> As for swirling, just think about the force exerted on that one microfiber thread that causes the mark! A microfiber thread is about 1/100th the diameter of a human hair. That's a pretty fine blade edge!


Quite an interesting point (no pun intended lol), never thought of MFs like that.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

Davemm said:


> After reading all of the above and helping out over the weekend in which the car was washed and machined I certainly agreed with the above in terms of the results. The top three were the most prominent and the line could still be seen but the opticoat pro deff had the edge and still had the best water behaviour and fastest sheeting although all were very slow.
> 
> Ease of use and the time the coating lasts opticoat has to be the winner here


One thing I don't get though is why more people don't use it? theres a large number of people on here who truely believe that an LSP is just to protect their swirl free paint but they don't use OC pro/2.0. Which really would fit their needs more than any other product out there.


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## Davemm (Mar 9, 2009)

I know, but it's not the "in" product and doesn't get mentioned much but I bet there is a few out there that use it and nothing else, same as many other products that don't get mentioned all the time and arnt the latest must haves


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Alex L said:


> Good on Joel for doing the test, makes a change for someone to go out of their way to do this sort of thing to test a product they sell so they can back up the claims.


I'm pretty sure Joel said that testing cost over $30k, so yes, it's significant. :doublesho


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Alex L said:


> One thing I don't get though is why more people don't use it? theres a large number of people on here who truely believe that an LSP is just to protect their swirl free paint but they don't use OC pro/2.0. Which really would fit their needs more than any other product out there.


People are scared to use coatings, plain and simple. Scared that they will **** it up.

And yep, there's a lot of Collinite warriors out there that would be better off with a coating for sure!


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

wheres opti pro version from then?

Only find this at rons
http://www.motorgeek.co.uk/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command=ShowProduct&db_pid=70


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

chrisc said:


> wheres opti pro version from then?
> 
> Only find this at rons
> http://www.motorgeek.co.uk/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command=ShowProduct&db_pid=70


its for pros only..... It's basically a thicker version.


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

-Raven- said:


> its for pros only..... It's basically a thicker version.


OK so what do you after be to be classed as a pro?


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

-Raven- said:


> I'm pretty sure Joel said that testing cost over $30k, so yes, it's significant. :doublesho


Ouch!



-Raven- said:


> People are scared to use coatings, plain and simple. Scared that they will **** it up.
> 
> And yep, there's a lot of Collinite warriors out there that would be better off with a coating for sure!


Which is in a way understandable given the temperamental nature of application of some of them. Iirc one of the G-technics has to be applied around 22 deg, which if you're on a driveway/side of the road is near impossible to do.

I do forget sometimes how lucky we are this end of the world and in the US where we all have access to garages or workshops, so can work away quite happily away from wind, rain and beating hot sun.



-Raven- said:


> its for pros only..... It's basically a thicker version.


And the curing times are a lot quicker too iirc, making mistakes a lot easier to do.


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

chrisc said:


> wheres opti pro version from then?
> 
> Only find this at rons
> http://www.motorgeek.co.uk/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command=ShowProduct&db_pid=70





chrisc said:


> OK so what due you after be to be classed as a pro?


I'm not sure what you need to do, but do to the shorter work times there's more chance to muck it up.

And ideally you need an indoor space away from contamination and weather extremes to get a clean application.
Something you just wouldn't get on the side of the road.

And with some of the pro coatings needing 12 hours or so to fully cure/bond a garage would be a necessity.


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## Artdeshine (Aug 21, 2012)

*you*

Haha you can. One apply only after 3 hour the surface dry you can drive anyway. My H crystal is water base promoted. It only need 3 hour to surface dry but not full harden. It take 7 days to to full constricted hard. Within 7 days you can apply layer to add thickness.

Care during the curing time.

Just wash with plan watef and add a layer of HWR after wash. This is to prevent imperfection like bird dropping. But only this period. After 7 days you can add anything you like.

Any other information you need PM , i will share wif you.



PaulinLincs said:


> So I can't put the artdeshine 9H on then drive through hedges ? Bummer


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

chrisc said:


> OK so what do you after be to be classed as a pro?


get accredited, pay their fees, buy their stock.


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## josadler (Jul 14, 2010)

alfred said:


> Haha you can. One apply only after 3 hour the surface dry you can drive anyway. My H crystal is water base promoted. It only need 3 hour to surface dry but not full harden. It take 7 days to to full constricted hard. Within 7 days you can apply layer to add thickness.
> 
> Care during the curing time.
> 
> ...


I've seen Your video and it seems easy to apply, which is an advantage over other products.
You mention it adds thickness to the paint.
Can You elaborate on this: how much thicknes, do You have paint readings?


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

josadler said:


> I've seen Your video and it seems easy to apply, which is an advantage over other products.
> You mention it adds thickness to the paint.
> Can You elaborate on this: how much thicknes, do You have paint readings?


I'd be cautious about thickness claims, on another forum Kelly from KDS gave a very good point about how many litres of clear coat it takes to add thickness to paint and that 10ml of product just isn't going to add what some companies claim.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Alex L said:


> I'd be cautious about thickness claims, on another forum Kelly from KDS gave a very good point about how many litres of clear coat it takes to add thickness to paint and that 10ml of product just isn't going to add what some companies claim.


ADS 9H is like syrup!


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## PaulinLincs (Jan 16, 2011)

-Raven- said:


> ADS 9H is like syrup!


Hiya Raven. have you used 9H ? What is the finish like compared to say Sicko?


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

PaulinLincs said:


> Hiya Raven. have you used 9H ? What is the finish like compared to say Sicko?


the Sicko is a more wet candy type look, the 9H more harder glass shine. :thumb:


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## PaulinLincs (Jan 16, 2011)

9H with Sicko on top then


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