# Brown transfer on cream/oyster leather seats.



## David ODwyer (Aug 28, 2015)

Hi looking for some advice on how I can attempt to remove what I believe to be brown colour transfer from my a brown leather belt off of my oyster leather seats.

I've tried a few times probably spending about two hours on these spots in the past. I've never gone overly aggressive with the scrubbing and have tried multiple techniques. 
Methods I've tried include spraying AG Leather cleaner liberally, and using a soft bristled brush intended for alloys wheels (AG Alloy brush) to agitate with mild / aggresive-mild force. Then wiping with a damp clean microfibre a few times. 
I've also tried doing the same process with a slight bit of warm water to wipe and leaving the cleaner sit for a few minutes.

Is it probable that a leather cleaner will lift this transfer?

What product would be best to attempt to lift this transfer?

Is it possible that I've lifted the colour from the seat and this is simply the undyed hide/material?

Pictures below: Were looking at the dark brown / purple spot. I believe its from my belt (Belt as in clothing, not the safety belt) as this is exactly where my belt lines up when I'm sitting in the seat.





































I've a few days off work coming up where I plan on trying to get this car as clean as possibly and protect. 
I've 303 aerospace protectant ordered, will this help protect against the colour transfer?


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## judyb (Sep 7, 2007)

Dye transfer can be difficult to remove after it has built up over time. Regular cleaners generally will not have any effect and specialist cleaners will need to be used. The longer the dye has been on the leather the further it will have traveled into the finish and if 'cleaners' cannot resolve the problem some colour restoration work would need to be done
We have a Jean & Dye Transfer Remover Kit which is the best and safest place to start (we have trade products too for this) 

Once resolved you need to protect with Auto LeatherGuard once a year and clean regularly with Auto Maintain to help prevent this from happening again.

Let me know if you need any further advice.


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## Dr Leather (Sep 8, 2010)

Here is a link to the performance of our DyeBlock product, which proves how effective it is against the issue you are currently facing and how it will protect your leather in the future;

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=366592

Cheers

Dr Leather


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## David ODwyer (Aug 28, 2015)

I'll order the dye transfer removal kit in a week or so, will update with how successful I am. I'll simply use the 303 to try protect until I can put a few quid towards some form dye transfer protection. Hopefully the 303 wont help facilitate dye transfer...
After placing a big order for a DA and plenty of exterior detailing kit, so I think I'll hold off a few weeks before I go mad at tackling this one.

I've owned the car until April. The previous owner owned the car via lease plan and was sold back to main dealer. 
I'm not fully convinced I put this mark into the leather, It was a while back but I remember a day where I first cleaner the leather with AG leather cleaner and it was almost as if I wiped and they appeared.
Is it possible I wiped off poorly touched up leather?
(The previous owner would be penalized by lease plan for all damage that needed to be repaired for re-sale)

So the stain has been there since May at the least, do I've much chance of removing this?


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## judyb (Sep 7, 2007)

Its removal will depend on the dyes and the finish in the leather. It is possible that someone has completed it over for return to the lease company and you have just exposed it again if it had not been done properly.
I will take a closer look at the photos on the computer at work (seeing these on my phone!!!)
If it is damage it may need to be refinished with professional products to completely restore it
Cheers
Judyb


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## judyb (Sep 7, 2007)

Hi 

Have had a closed look and it does appear to be dye transfer rather than damage - as this is exactly where your belt is I suspect that this is the cause.
Give me a ring on 01423 881027 if you want to discuss further

Cheers
Judyb


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## David ODwyer (Aug 28, 2015)

Update time:
Purchased the LLT Jean & Dye Transfer Remover Kit.
It has made for the most part a really positive difference.

I believe I may have scrubbed the clear coating from the leather in one point from being a bit to vigourious with the light rubbing of the stage 2 cleaner.
I also have reason to believe this may have been very worm before hand.

When the leather is wet, one spot browns up loads. Given some time to dry it will return to a nice cream colour. The spot is smoother than the rest of the chair and also has less of a 'plastic' feel to it.

Below you can see pictures of this spot both wet and dry.

WET:









DRY:










Below is a picture of the over all finish achieved. I mainly tried focus on the mark on the right hand side of the chair as I only had 20 minutes to go at it last night.










Can anyone explain why it is going much darker when wet in one spot only? Is it a matter of the protective coating been removed completely in one spot?
If so, how can I go about fixing this spot?


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## judyb (Sep 7, 2007)

You have removed the top finish n the leather which has exposed the leather underneath. When wet the leather fibres will soak up the ,posture and go dark returning to the original colour when they dry out.
As you say being too vigorous with cleaning would do thus particularly with the step 2 process. Leather should never be scrubbed as the products will always do the work if allowed dwell time. If the area was a well used area (given the dye transfer is on that area this would indicate a more used section) prior to cleaning this will also mean the finish is weaker in that area 
The smoothness will also have been caused by removal of the top surface as the grain pattern is embossed into the top coatings.

The area can be successfully recoloured and refinished and grain pattern re embossed before adding protector to help prevent the dye transfer problem.

Hope this helps
Judyb


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## David ODwyer (Aug 28, 2015)

As the damage is on the driver seat at the bottom, unless the seat is tilted back a lot, the damage isn't overly visible.
The car will certainly be sold to someone who will never notice the mark in about a years time.

What I hope to do is provide protection to this spot, so it doesn't stain once again.
I'll probably go very lightly over the surrounding area on the right a few times, to blend everything in slightly better and to remove the remaining transfer.

Are there any products on the market which will allow me to apply a permanent clear coat on this area, like a touch up? 

Would simply blending the remaining area in (with stage 1 & 2 LLT Jean & Dye remover) and applying an auto-leather protector be okay? 

Should I be extra careful allowing the stage 1 & 2 cleaners on the unprotected area now?

Are there any leather sealant/protectors I can apply to the unsealed area?
Its in such a small unnoticeable area I don't want to go the full-professional route.


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## judyb (Sep 7, 2007)

Auto leather protect will not restore the finish. If you can find me a sample for the colour I can supply one of our 'Dabber' pens to restore the patch and some finish to top coat it. Then apply LeatherGuard to help protect the area from the dye.
When you use the kit again keep your cloth very wet with 2 product and do not rub 
Hope this helps
Judyb


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## David ODwyer (Aug 28, 2015)

Judy you've been such a great help with this, I appreciate the effort your putting in to help me get this fixed! :thumb:

When you say provide you with a sample, would you be reefering to a little offcut of the leather?

Im sure I can get in under the seat and remove a little square, with a scalpal so I can provide you with a sample.
Alternatively, I could try go to BMW and ask for a sample of *Dakota Oyster* leather I think they provide these to people considering buying new cars.


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## Tricky Red (Mar 3, 2007)

I think that Judy means that she would supply a coloured dabber pen to coat over the area.


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## David ODwyer (Aug 28, 2015)

Tricky Red said:


> I think that Judy means that she would supply a coloured dabber pen to coat over the area.


I kinda grasped as much. However, she said "If you can provide me with a sample for the color", this is what has me confused


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## Tricky Red (Mar 3, 2007)

David ODwyer said:


> I kinda grasped as much. However, she said "If you can provide me with a sample for the color", this is what has me confused


I see. Yes, sometimes they provide a swatch underneath a seat for you to send off. Not always though.


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## judyb (Sep 7, 2007)

If you can get a piece of the leather the colour match will be better 
Cheers
Judyb


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## Blue Al (Sep 13, 2015)

Looking at this issue from the other end,
Is their any treatment recommend for leather belts ?

I'm suffering from the same marking


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## judyb (Sep 7, 2007)

A lot of leather belts are made from Aniline leather where the dyes are much looser than in a finished leather. A good protector like LeatherGuard would help unless you add a finish to the leather to help lock the dyes in.
Hope this helps
Judyb


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## camerashy (Feb 9, 2014)

Judy could you please explain what you mean by 'add a finish to the leather ' and what products would you recommend for this 
Thanks very interesting information
Dave


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## judyb (Sep 7, 2007)

Finish is the clear coat finish that is used on leather to give it an extra hard wearing layer. We have pigment finishes and aniline finishes 
Please email [email protected] for details and prices
Cheers
Judyb


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## Dr Leather (Sep 8, 2010)

Belts are typically finished with the older style protein type finishes as they are generally sold as a cheap leather. 

Aniline refers to an old type of dye technology, and in truth they really aren't used any longer. Aniline leather generally refers to a piece of leather that has been dyed only. But to say the dyes are loose is very wrong really. It depends massively on the type of dyestuff used, and if reactive dyes are used then your leather will be extremely colourfast (i.e. will not bleed out). Dyeing technology, and dye fixatives have moved on so much in the last 30 years. And we use the same dyes whether the leather is finished or aniline or even semi-aniline. 

Cheers

Dr Leather


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## judyb (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks for your input Darryl - just trying to keep the matter simple 
Whatever the reason for the dyes migrating we have finishes that can solve the problem
Cheers
Judyb


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## Dr Leather (Sep 8, 2010)

I prefer to explain the situation correctly so that there is no ambiguity and that forum members can learn if they so wish. I hate it when companies (from any sector) try to give a simple explanation which is most often full of holes and often quite incorrect.

The finishes really should be used in consideration with the dye type used for full confidence in a product. That is what we have to consider when we actually make the leather.


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## judyb (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks for your comments Darryl - I know you always like to try to prove me wrong &#55357;&#56836;

As I said whatever the problem we have the correct finishes for it - it's what we do - restore problems - we do it day in and day out on used and worn leather rather than new but thanks for your help 

Cheers
Judyb


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## Dr Leather (Sep 8, 2010)

Not at all JudyB - I just like to see correct information posted up as there is so much incorrect stuff posted on the internet, across all sectors. If you post up information on a forum that is weak, then prepare for it to be commented upon as necessary. Simple as that really. :wall:

Anyway, the point of the forum is to help the members, and I hope educate where we can. 

At least we do both agree that modern leather doesn't need conditioning


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## David ODwyer (Aug 28, 2015)

Update: Leather sample sent off to LTT.
Dr Leather advanced cleaner and dye block also in hand.
Waiting to sort the dabber to restore the finish and top coat, before I go and apply the dye block.


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## David ODwyer (Aug 28, 2015)

I've put what I hope to be the final coat of the touch up paint / dye onto the seats tonight. I've been going at it to top up a layer every few days or whenever I know no one will be using the car the following day.
I've allowed the dye to dry over night in most cases, once I was lucky enough to have access to a hair dryer and got a few coats that evening.

*Atttention of JudyB! (Your private mail inbox is full)* Or anyone else who cares to contribute.

Should I be wary using any particular cleaners / products with the touched up areas?

How long should I allow it to dry / cure before I touch it with a product?

Do you've any opinions on how this stuff holds up with dye block products?

I use Dr Leather Dye block and advanced leather cleaner. Would like opinions before I remove the plastic seat cover I've had on for the last three months...


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## Dr Leather (Sep 8, 2010)

I hope you also have a clear top coat applied as well over the pigmented coat???


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## David ODwyer (Aug 28, 2015)

I haven't applied any clear top coat, I've only applied the dabber of custom matched dye/paint provided. 
I've been very impressed with the results so far, the transfer is now unnoticeable. The paint / dye has completely hidden the transfer, the fact the seat has been touched up is also completely unnoticeable.
I also had some fraying / wear on the right bolster of the driver seat, I decided I'd lightly touch this up to and its taken the obvious look off of the fraying, by giving the area much more of an even tone.

I want to get to the point where I can just dye block this area, and forget about it.
I take it your dye block is only suitable for coated leather right? I've worn the coating off..

Photos will come next time I've the car out in daylight where I can get a decent photo.


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## Dr Leather (Sep 8, 2010)

On any repair I would always suggest a clear top being applied, just as it would be in manufacture of the leather originally. If you only use a pigmented coat (i.e. a resin binder, pigment, and some other auxiliaries) then there is a risk of colour transfer for sure. 

In mainstream production we generally use a clear topcoat, or if we do have to colour adjust at the end we would only add a tiny amount of pigment in the clear top otherwise it would not pass all the strict colourfastness and other physical tests required of the leather. 

In addition, is the recolour product that you have applied crosslinked in anyway??? Again in the real manufacture of the leather we crosslink all coats to ensure durability and inter-coat adhesion.

Rgds

Dr Leather


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## judyb (Sep 7, 2007)

Will contact you tomorrow David 
Cheers
Judyb


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