# Buying car from 'Trade' centre...



## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Hi All,

Spotted a car that is priced well at a dealer some 300 miles away. I say priced well it's probably about £1000 to £1500 cheaper than everywhere else, it's an older BMW in good spec (Not an M5 lol). It's got lower than average miles on it.

I've checked all the MOT History on it, all seems really good.

There are 2 issues, the 1st is the seller is being honest and said there is no service history except for the stamps in the book from when it was new, it looks like. He said I'm not going to make up history or be dishonest and that is why it's at the price it is.

EDIT: He said they have put a new rocker cover gasket on it as it was weeping from there. 

He said there's no Vanos Rattle or timing rattle on it, (It's done 100k these are average around 140 - 170k miles at the moment), I would assume if I go and I hear any rattle etc then my 'refundable' deposit would be refunded as it's not as they described.

It all sounds fair enough and they do have about 80 cars in stock at the moment. 

The reviews of them online, there are some bad but none of them have been because of crap cars, more so selling cars before someones come to look as they didn't leave a holding deposit etc. The one that had a bad car go wrong 4 weeks down the line, they stated they gave him all his money back and refused to sell him another car.

They say that warranty isn't included but is at an 'extra' cost....I'm just asking, I Thought by law, any dealer that especially has as many cars as these and isn't some back alley guy flipping a couple of cars a month...have to by law have some form of warranty/come back if you drive it down the road and a major fault develops.

The actual car is something I want so if it did break something massively in a few months, I'd lump it and pay up. It's more of a heart over head decision wanting to actually buy such an old car in the first place, now they're showing up in modern classic mags etc.

I would be keeping the car for as long as I could so I would build up service history and if they keep rising in value and along with the love I give to it, would hopefully improve it's value... or at least not lose any.


1.) No service history...
2.) Supposedly a trade sale.

What are your thoughts?


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## Sam6er (Apr 3, 2016)

What engine is it and year? If its one of the diesel models that suffer timing chain issues then be prepared for the bill that goes with it. If its before the timing chain issues M47/M57 engine then itl be fine on the chain front so major costs should be minimal. Have you done a HPI check yet to see if the history is ok? 
He should offer basic warranty but if its classed as a trade sale he might get way with it although im not sure that's entirely legal on his part as all cars sold from a business must come with 6 months engine/gearbox warranty.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Sam6er said:


> What engine is it and year? If its one of the diesel models that suffer timing chain issues then be prepared for the bill that goes with it. If its before the timing chain issues M47/M57 engine then itl be fine on the chain front so major costs should be minimal. Have you done a HPI check yet to see if the history is ok?
> He should offer basic warranty but if its classed as a trade sale he might get way with it although im not sure that's entirely legal on his part as all cars sold from a business must come with 6 months engine/gearbox warranty.


It's a 530i and I think it's not the newer TU engine, so it has the in between vanos on it., I'm avoiding the diesel on purpose due to their issues and besides I've had countless diesels and want to run something a bit more fun, smooth, sound nice etc.

I know nobody can make the decision for me and I'm not asking if anybody thinks I should buy it or not unless for good reason of course.

If I pay a holding deposit, or the whole thing on a credit card...would I have recourse for a charge back?


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## Sam6er (Apr 3, 2016)

Starbuck88 said:


> It's a 530i and I think it's not the newer TU engine, so it has the in between vanos on it., I'm avoiding the diesel on purpose due to their issues and besides I've had countless diesels and want to run something a bit more fun, smooth, sound nice etc.
> 
> I know nobody can make the decision for me and I'm not asking if anybody thinks I should buy it or not unless for good reason of course.
> 
> If I pay a holding deposit, or the whole thing on a credit card...would I have recourse for a charge back?


The 3.0 engines are usually bullet proof apart from the vanos as you said. Check for oil leaks around the manifold as the gasket on these engines take a beating and dry up causing oil leaks, not a very expensive fix mind. Check the gearbox is working as intended and if its a manual id get the fluid changed out and if its an auto id get the whole gearbox service done (Which includes a new sump/fluid/mechatronic sleeve).

My sister has run an X3 3.0 petrol into 100k+ and has had no issues apart from a rad leak and manifold gasket turned to stone lol.

Just give it some good oil and keep it changed every 10k rather than the recommended 20k miles.

For me it would all depend on the overall condition of the car. My most recent 330d E91 when i bought it looked a sad sight and i guess that's what put off alot of buyers but the engine and all mechanicals were solid, mainly has bodywork issues, but that didn't bother me much seeing as it was my daily for work and back.

On the credit card front, i believe it should be covered by them if you purchase part or all of it on credit card, but im not too familiar with the credit card laws, so best to read up on them.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

It could have the service info logged on idrive if it has it , they don't use books know, take a test drive and go to BMW dealer and get the key read to see when serviced etc?


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## Banksy40 (Sep 5, 2012)

If its is old enough to have gone through an MOT take a look online and see where it was done.

Give the garage a call and see if they did any other work on it.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

In terms of warranty - yes by law they have to provide a warranty but this can be simply them stating that they will effect repairs within a given timeframe - there is no legal obligation to provide a 3rd party warranty

To be fair to them it sounds like they are being upfront and honest


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Sam6er said:


> The 3.0 engines are usually bullet proof apart from the vanos as you said. Check for oil leaks around the manifold as the gasket on these engines take a beating and dry up causing oil leaks, not a very expensive fix mind. Check the gearbox is working as intended and if its a manual id get the fluid changed out and if its an auto id get the whole gearbox service done (Which includes a new sump/fluid/mechatronic sleeve).
> 
> My sister has run an X3 3.0 petrol into 100k+ and has had no issues apart from a rad leak and manifold gasket turned to stone lol.
> 
> ...


This is it at the end of the day, it looks clean enough online, the seller has been honest as far as I can tell and the proof in the pudding would be in seeing it. It's just a long drive there and back if I'm not comfortable with it when I get there (I agree less hassle then driving buying it and it being a lemon however lololol).

They HPi all their cars etc so I will be able to see proof of that (I'll do my own anyway too but belt and braces).

And even if I say so myself, I'm not an idiot and know my way around a car.

I just doubt myself a lot.



Derekh929 said:


> It could have the service info logged on idrive if it has it , they don't use books know, take a test drive and go to BMW dealer and get the key read to see when serviced etc?


Yeah its a bit too old for that. It's an E39, but good shout thank you 



Banksy40 said:


> If its is old enough to have gone through an MOT take a look online and see where it was done.
> 
> Give the garage a call and see if they did any other work on it.


On all the mot histories I've looked at recently for other cars and this including the ones I own now....it just says "Test location unavailable until further notice" again, a good shout though.


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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

If something happens within 30 days you can reject the car under consumer act. After 30 days to 6 months your entitled to a repair / replacement free of charge. After 6 months you have to prove the issue was there when you bought it. 

I would be wary if he try's to get you to sign something about no warranty.


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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

these types of cars are all about history, its £1000-1500 cheaper than others youve seen but you dont say how much it is!

if its a trade sale, no warranty - aprat from the bare minimun - id be tempted to go through the classifies and find one local.

buy cheap, buy twice


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## RedUntilDead (Feb 10, 2009)

Is it really worth a 600 mile round trip including your time. And presuming only one journey will be required.
Without being rude, is that car that good or rare to consider this deal?

I have done it myself a few times but looking back, the cars have never been worth the lost time, for me anyway.
I tried my hand at dealing but I quickly learnt that I just don’t like people as most are f..kwits


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

You buy it then in a months time your posting a thread with the title "530I engine problems, garage won't help", personally I would not go near it with a barge pole, the lack of any real service history, the leaking engine which is only a rocker gasket leaking!? , then there's the 600 mile round trip which will soon eat into you £1000 saving, never mind having to get it back to them when the inevitable does happen.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

As soon as I see a dealer selling a car as a trade sale alarm bells ring. 

All their cars have to be sourced as trade ins, auctions or buying from unknown people. Other than having the cars properly inspected they've no way of knowing if the car is a good one or not.

When they start deeming cars as trade sales it makes me think they know it's substandard and just want to avoid any dispute when it goes wrong.


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## LeeH (Jan 29, 2006)

Kerr said:


> As soon as I see a dealer selling a car as a trade sale alarm bells ring.
> 
> All their cars have to be sourced as trade ins, auctions or buying from unknown people. Other than having the cars properly inspected they've no way of knowing if the car is a good one or not.
> 
> When they start deeming cars as trade sales it makes me think they know it's substandard and just want to avoid any dispute when it goes wrong.


I didn't think them marking them up as 'trade sale' effected your statutory rights.

Sure I read that somewhere.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

LeeH said:


> I didn't think them marking them up as 'trade sale' effected your statutory rights.
> 
> Sure I read that somewhere.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I don't believe it does. The goods still need to be fit for purpose and as described. Trade sale appears to be an excuse for something not being up to scratch and the seller thinking they have no responsibility.

Trade sales should be that and not dealers selling to the public.


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## Mikesphotaes (Jul 24, 2016)

Depends how good you are with the spanners?

There will be a reason it's a trade sale and doubt it's the car history!


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## slim_boy_fat (Jun 23, 2006)

Probably bought at auction, as will be most of his cars. That's not say there's anything wrong with it. 

I had an e39 manual and it was one of the best cars I've ever owned, and is generally accepted to be one of the best cars BMW have ever produced. Check for rust, along the sills but the engine os excellent, I took my 528iSE to 145k miles+ before changing it for a 530i e60.

The weeping cam cover gasket is common enough, I've had to replace mine on the e60 which is basically the same engine.


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

If there is any doubt, then there is no doubt. Been through this recently and if the dealer is willing to play ball then the law gives you some solid protection. If they don’t then they can make it very difficult and despite the fact that the law is relatively plain and simple, enforcing it can cost you time and money. 

Saying it’s a ‘trade sale’ means nothing, it is not a legal term with specific conditions attached and it does not absolve the seller of their legal responsibilities. The Sale of Goods Act was updated in 2015 to the Consumer Rights Act, basically anything that is sold by a business has to be of reasonable quality, fit for purpose and as described, whether it’s a toaster or a car. The important bit is that the definitions of those criteria are slightly different to what one would assume from the old days. 

As described is fairly self explanatory, however, when it comes to proof, any description needs to be in writing, a verbal description over the phone for example means nothing. If you ring the guy and he says ‘yeah it’s got a full history’ then you rock up and find that it’s got a couple of receipts from Tesco for 1l of oil then tough. Get conversations stating specifics confirmed in writing, email is fine. 

Fit for Purpose no longer specifically means it has to work properly (which is covered by ‘as described’), it refers more to your intended use of the product, eg if you bought a car that you wanted to tow a caravan with but then found that it wasn’t capable, that would be unfit for purpose. The rub is that again, you need to be able to prove, in writing, that you made your intended purpose clear to the seller and that they advised that the product was fit for such purpose. 

The big one of course is ‘of reasonable quality’. This means what it says, that the product has to be capable of doing its job safely and reliably. When it comes to things like used cars, it takes into account things like age and mileage etc, but it should still be roadworthy and reliable (if it was described as such) and free from any major defects. Of course there is still a lot of grey area there, but if the gearbox gives up two months down the line, you probably have a case, if the windscreen wipers need replacing after a year, not so much. 

The Act does actually cover you for up to six years, however after certain periods of time, that cover does become harder to implement. Within the first 30 days, any breach of the conditions of the Act entitles you to reject the car and receive a full refund, including the value of any trade in you made. So if you find that the car is substantially not as described or you discover a major problem, you are covered. Less serious issues that can be easily rectified have to be negotiated with the seller, something like an oil leak for example might not be a problem now but could lead to trouble down the road, you would have to come to a mutual agreement on, forcing the issue might mean obtaining proof that the issue was potentially serious enough to be considered unreasonable. Again, if the dealer disagrees they can make it difficult and stretch it out, but the time limit does not include any period that they have had the car back for repair, so if you report a fault after say 28 days, then they take 3 days to fix it, putting it over the 30 day limit, but fail to rectify it it, you are still covered. 

Between 30 days and 6 months you are still entitled to a refund under the same conditions, however the seller is permitted to make a deduction for wear and tear, mileage etc. 

After 6 months you are still covered, but the onus is then on you to prove that the fault was present at the time of sale, which obviously become increasingly difficult as time goes on. 

So in general, the law is on your side and it will protect you from any major catastrophes, but implementing it with an uncooperative seller can be time consuming and very stressful. My own case was fairly straightforward and with a local dealer, but because they contested my claims, it still took two months to fully resolve. I got my money back and walked away, but I was without a car for a period of time and eventually had to involve a third party to get it sorted. Hope this helps. M.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Thought I best update this thread and be truthful about it, even if you all do tell me that you told me so! :wall: embarrassed to even write this up but if it helps anybody else then I don't mind being painted as a fool.

I called the dealer and asked more questions, one that particularly later would **** me off is I asked him, are there any paintwork problems on the car, has it had any paint and are there any dings or dents anywhere. His response was "The cars paint is OK and there aren't any dents that we know of, could potentially be a trolley ding or something, it is 17 years old after all, it's just cheap because no service history"

I also asked him how refundable the £100 deposit was. He told me that if the car was just not what I thought it was going to be, they'd refund. ( I paid the £100 to show I was serious about the car and not a time waster and I paid it on Credit Card.. take note of that for later in the story).

Off we set on Saturday morning, my only lift could only get to me for about 10am. We arrive at the dealer at 4ish due to traffic and very very poor weather conditions, (another poor decision, needed to get their earlier).

Went in, was told the car was over at their lock up, which on their site tells you to ring in advance to make sure a car isn't there to avoid disappointment, a tactic they obviously use to hype up their cars when you ring them because...it's over the road, literally directly opposite the main forecourt. 

So I go over the road, it's sat behind a locked gate running. This immediately upset me as I wanted to hear it start from cold for the chain and vanos issues. Stood there and waited for him to come over and I could see the nearside didn't look right. He opened the gate and told me to have a good look around, I said why is it running, he said well bmw people usually like to see these running and up to temperature to make sure they don't overheat etc. I understand what he said but we could have got it hot on a test drive! :wall: (He said well we can let it cool down) which wouldn't have happened considering how late it was.

I look at the suspect nearside and it's had paint on the front wing, door bottoms, sill and rear wing. I assume due to rust these are prone too so it wasn't much of an issue as far as accident damage but it was a **** poor job, you could see parts where the paint had reacted, it was flat and the rest of the bodywork was scratched to kingdom come. I said to him this is nowhere near the quality you told me on the phone, his response was... "well it's 17 years old it's not going to be perfect", I held my breathe and carried on looking. The interior was fine but another problem he didn't tell me, airbag light on...again I know these are prone on these cars if someone kneels on a seat or moves the seat back and forward it can trigger it. Parking sensor button flashing so they weren't working. Little bits that I convinced myself were ok to sort. 

Took it for a drive, it did drive very well, engine smooth couldn't hardly hear it, gearbox changed up and down, couldn't feel the gear changes at all, reversed up a hill fine. Mechanically...It was fine, it was just a shame I couldn't experience a true cold start. Hot starting wasn't an issue, fired right up. No creaks, rattles, knocks, really is a testament to these E39s how well built they were.

Overall just miffed at the paintwork but I was willing to see past that and convinced myself it was ok again as I'd travelled so far and didn't want to look a mug going all that way and getting shafted. (again, stupid, I am too nice).

So...went into the office and said look, the car wasn't to the standard I'd been lead to believe so said I'll drive it away for £250 less, he said no, no negotiations I told you that on the phone, I said no you didn't but YOU did tell me there were no paint issues. He said the cars the car and that's the price.

At this point, it was strange, I felt obliged to buy the car but I actually didn't want to deep down inside, so I said ok, lets sort the paperwork, the time was now 5pm. 

He took out a wallet, had previous mots, book pack etc, he slid the V5 infront of me to fill in the new keeper bit... being distracted by the mots etc, I filled the logbook in and put my card on the table.

This is where it gets pretty interesting, he took the log book off me and said oh, btw this is an old style log book so you can't tax it online  I said what on earth, why has it got an old style log book, he said we see it all the time with trade ins, I said these haven't been in existence since about 2011! At this point, I didn't want the car, this was the last straw but wanted to see where this would lead as something was all off about all this....SO..

He said but it's ok, pay the money and go down to the post office and do it there and it'll be fine. I said would someone run me down there now to get it sorted, he said well pay the money and you and your mate can drive down there, they shut at 5.30pm. So no they wouldn't run me down there and he demanded I pay first. This would have deffo made me run a mile if I hadn't already decided in my head it was over.

I said if I pay you the money, drive there and it's shut or they won't tax it, you won't be refunding my money and I'll be stuck here with a car I can't drive home. 

He said we'll be here when you get back don't worry, then without a breath between words he says... "is this the card your paying on", I said "yes", he said "but it's a credit card, we don't take them, I told you that on the phone"(I wanted to pay on credit for protection basically but didn't say that to him)... I said "no you didn't, not at all did you say anything of the sort", he then says "we won't even take a deposit on a credit card", "well...I paid with it on credit card", he looks at the receipt, that shut him up and I think he could see I was getting more annoyed too, "it also says on your website that you can pay by credit card", he says "well since the new laws we've not accepted them as we can't pass on the charges" and with that he picked his mobile up and rings his 'boss', "got a guy here on the bmw, (voices), I know you don't want to sell the bmw but he's here now and wants to pay by credit card, (voices) ok ok I'll tell him that".. he says we can get around that by charging you a document processing fee... :lol:

I stood up, said just ****ing forget it, and walked out. I felt upset but relieved at the same time.

If the car had been as it was described, I'd have perhaps said look, get a new log book for it, I'll come back in a couple of weeks when it's come through to collect the car. It just wasn't though. Everything all added up to a complete **** show basically.

Of course refused to refund my deposit, so I'll ring the bank and see if I can get a charge back.

We make the long drive home, I drove my friends car with him there and back, I paid for the fuel and all food etc as any decent person would. 

When I got home, for some reason I was paranoid with how dodgy it all seemed that they'd charge my card for car anyway and stitch me up as I'd filled in the logbook. Thankfully they hadn't but I decided to look up the company info as it's a LTD company. 

The directors address....I thought I bloody recognise that, it was only the address that was the previous owner of the BMW!

So as you can see, seller dodgy, me being too lenient and car not as described. I asked all the questions and everything I asked he satisfied by being untruthful. 

I'm now on the lookout for a good clean example at the right money. Teach myself a lesson about trying to grab a bargain. It's funny, friends have done this and all worked out...would be my luck I'm the first to get stung by it.


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## Andyblue (Jun 20, 2017)

Get onto your credit card company. See if they can offer any help with the refund. Tell them what's happened and to stop any further transactions on the card ...

Sounds like you've had a lucky escape bud, not going down the route of told you so etc (as I hadn't ), but I think the lesson learned - if it doesn't feel right and you're not sure, leave it...

Hope you get the deposit back, no further issues and do find a belter of a car


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

His name on the logbook makes it even worse. Obviously didn't want a credit card payment as he knew action could be taken later.

Sounds as dodgy as they come.


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Told you so. 

Lol. Just stack this one up to experience, chum. It was definitely worth going to see. If you hadn't, it would always have nagged you that it could have been the best one ever!!! 

On the plus side, car shopping is the best thing ever!!!!

N


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Kerr said:


> His name on the logbook makes it even worse. Obviously didn't want a credit card payment as he knew action could be taken later.
> 
> Sounds as dodgy as they come.


I actually couldn't believe it when I got home and looked up the company info.

It was like every dodgy used car salesman tactic, stereotype, joke, came into play from the moment I said, 'Hi, I'm the guy that's come to see the BMW'.


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## parsa1 (Nov 11, 2016)

I have been caught with the same sort of thing got there car was not as described so I pulled out of the deal getting my deposit back was very frustrating and these people play on the fact that because of the amount of hassle you wont bother as they say chalk it up to experience I never put any deposit down now.


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## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

A lucky escape really. You do sometimes get bargains with people selling cars similar to a price they've been offered by we buy any car, but it pays to always get the best example you can can afford.


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## percymon (Jun 27, 2007)

Well despite the wasted day, long journey etc etc I think you actually got soem positives from the experience..

1. you know that a car at that age can potentially be sound mechanically (even when its probably been sat idle for some time)
2. 17 year old cars will have some cosmetic issues, and had paintwork - not necessarily a bad thing but a bad job isn't always recoverable without further paint
3. the electrical issues may have been cheap fixes, or fixable with reasonable cost given the low purchase price
4. You'll no doubt be a lot more wary of such traders going forward

There are decent cars out there, but buying privately from an elderly gentleman/lady is probably more wise than dodgy traders on cars of this age. Example ? https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201802023361699

The silver 520i Msport in Essex has rust bubbling behind the rear drivers arch so that was not worth a visit, even if you had more time 

If ts the blue one at EssexTradeSalesLtd then it did look OK in the photos


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

percymon said:


> Well despite the wasted day, long journey etc etc I think you actually got soem positives from the experience..
> 
> 1. you know that a car at that age can potentially be sound mechanically (even when its probably been sat idle for some time)
> 2. 17 year old cars will have some cosmetic issues, and had paintwork - not necessarily a bad thing but a bad job isn't always recoverable without further paint
> ...


Yes you're right it was that one but the paintwork I convinced myself wouldn't be so bad at the time but if I'd have it sat outside my house right now...I'd be crying. It was flat, wrong colour, bloomed on the front wing and I was looking at it in the rain too, so imagine how bad it really is. (this isn't an OCD type issue, this is a, anybody who saw it would wee themselves laughing at how bad it was) It needed a full body respray.

I'm glad the rest never worked out because I'd have regretted buying it.

Just want to say too, I really want an E39 530i Sport. I shall wait for the right one...although...this looks nice...Was that instrument cluster an option?

https://www.amcarsltd.co.uk/used-ca...30i-sport-4dr-hemel-hempstead-201710180411845

Part S/H again. These are just getting so rare.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Starbuck88 said:


> Yes you're right it was that one but the paintwork I convinced myself wouldn't be so bad at the time but if I'd have it sat outside my house right now...I'd be crying. It was flat, wrong colour, bloomed on the front wing and I was looking at it in the rain too, so imagine how bad it really is. (this isn't an OCD type issue, this is a, anybody who saw it would wee themselves laughing at how bad it was) It needed a full body respray.
> 
> I'm glad the rest never worked out because I'd have regretted buying it.
> 
> ...





> Last serviced on 15/02/2008


:doublesho


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

182_Blue said:


> :doublesho


Seem to be many of them with only part service history.


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## slim_boy_fat (Jun 23, 2006)

"Was that instrument cluster an option?"

Known as 'high OBC if memory serves me - my 528 had it.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

slim_boy_fat said:


> "Was that instrument cluster an option?"
> 
> Known as 'high OBC if memory serves me - my 528 had it.


So it is a High OBC as it has the long centre section.

However I've managed to find out about the dials. They are after market dial fascias. The power literally is the MPG and the Rev Limiter lights don't work.

It'd have to be put back to OEM if I were to get that one but it's looking less likely.


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## slim_boy_fat (Jun 23, 2006)

This is the layoout for the 'low' OBC

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zojVPL-yWcA/maxresdefault.jpg

and the 'high' OBC

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=217820&stc=1&d=1265809998

See here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4925191


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Hard to believe those BMWs are 17 years old. They have aged very gracefully.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Kerr said:


> Hard to believe those BMWs are 17 years old. They have aged very gracefully.


I am a big fan of them and have owned one before many years ago but it was a 520i SE so was under powered and always said when I can afford it, I'd buy a 530i, 535i, 540i, or M5 as a bit of a toy to make it an OEM+ beauty.

535i seems pointless as it's only a couple of more bhp than the 530i even though it's a V8 and is slower 0-60 than the 6cyl 530i when it's Auto v Auto even with more torque.

The 540i is a real contender but finding a decent one due to chain guides and chains needing doing on them now, would like a V8.

M5, well they've skyrocketed in price and getting 12k past swmbo is much harder than say circa £3k.

I like everything about the E39 apart from everybody that seems to be selling them these days! :wall:


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

It’s a shame really as they’re at that point where the knackered and rotten ones are going and the mint ones are climbing in value, so what you get left with is either middle of the road 17 year old cars or decent ones hiding away somewhere waiting to be found. The day has come for the E60 really, they are the cheapo 5 series these days but that is no help to you if you desire a particular shape. I agree that they have aged very well, came out in the mid 90’s, over 20 years ago and are still modern. A friend of mine has just bought an 05 plate Audi A8 3.7 quattro long wheelbase as a daily to replace his new new rejected A8 as he’s sick of paying lots of £££. The 05 plate A8 has a huge spec, everything works, can still connect a phone and iPod and it drives amazingly well. It’s immaculate and really well equipped... £2800!!!! These older high spec cars can be a bargain and still make great dailies


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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-535d...586203?hash=item46769b171b:g:YzkAAOSwRo1agwMM

ls this what u wanted? looks well cared for apart from the gear box :-/


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## slim_boy_fat (Jun 23, 2006)

kingswood said:


> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-535d...586203?hash=item46769b171b:g:YzkAAOSwRo1agwMM
> 
> ls this what u wanted? looks well cared for apart from the gear box :-/


That's an e60, OP seems to want e39?

And that one........


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## Mcpx (Mar 15, 2016)

I know it was painful to walk away after investing so much in going to see it but you did the right thing, plenty more fish in the sea and I always say that when you see the right car, you will know it, just don’t allow yourself to settle for anything else.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

kingswood said:


> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-535d...586203?hash=item46769b171b:g:YzkAAOSwRo1agwMM
> 
> ls this what u wanted? looks well cared for apart from the gear box :-/


Thanks for the thought, appreciate it, but that's the next version and it's diesel.

I want the E39, in 530i Sport trim. Petrol. If anybody sees any or knows of any locally to them or by friends etc, then please by all means message in here or DM me. I've seen all the ones on Autotrader, eBay, Gumtree.... Any other good sites I can look at?


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## Sam6er (Apr 3, 2016)

Starbuck88 said:


> Thanks for the thought, appreciate it, but that's the next version and it's diesel.
> 
> I want the E39, in 530i Sport trim. Petrol. If anybody sees any or knows of any locally to them or by friends etc, then please by all means message in here or DM me. I've seen all the ones on Autotrader, eBay, Gumtree.... Any other good sites I can look at?


have you checked pistonheads and motors.co.uk?
Check local papers aswell as you find some real gems through there.


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## percymon (Jun 27, 2007)

The freebie local car papers in Sainsburys / some Asdas etc are always worth a look - not all garages int here will be on autotrader.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Sam6er said:


> have you checked pistonheads and motors.co.uk?
> Check local papers aswell as you find some real gems through there.


Yep checked them. Not done the local papers yet. New one out today so will check tonight.



percymon said:


> The freebie local car papers in Sainsburys / some Asdas etc are always worth a look - not all garages int here will be on autotrader.


As above, will go buy tonight and see if there is anything, will have to keep checking no doubt.

I spotted someone close to me on E39 Club UK having his E39 sport resprayed and after chatting he found a 530i Sport for £1000. In good condition, the seller just didn't know what they had. I'll never find a bargain like that!


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Well...I'll be receiving a form to fill in within the next week to provide evidence to get the £100 back.

They have suspended the £100 at the moment pending the outcome.

Trouble is....I have no evidence. So it'll pretty much be my word against theirs if they contact the seller/dealer.

Unfortunately I have no receipt for the deposit, I have no recording of the phone call where he said it was refundable holding deposit. hmmm....


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Won't it simply come under The Consumer Contracts Regulations which covers what we used to call distance selling regulations? 

If you paid the deposit over the phone you've got a right to pull out if the goods aren't as described once seen.

If you paid in person after viewing you'd not have a chance, but over the phone without seeing is different.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Well I have the forms arrive and it is 2 pages long and you fill out which section applies...but there is no section on there about goods not as described.

So will just sign and date one section I think most closely applies and add in the extra detail such as the advert for the car etc and write out the whole story for them to read.

On the plus side!

I think I have found a car! It's come from an E39 fanatic owner who cherished it to pieces, who sold it to a friend of his who's big SUV blew up and he'd had one before so bought it off him, but realises he needs the space but bought it because he loved E39s so much and though it'd be big enough but has only owned it since October.

Been chatting with the guy via FB and with what he's told me, all the story checks out.

It is quite far away again though and the only risky thing with the car, is the MOT runs out in the next couple of weeks. It does worry me a little bit but this one really sounds like I need to make the journey after chatting with the guy.

The car itself is black, with the proper 18" Parallels and this is specc'd out nicely, got satnav, electric heated seats, auto lights, wipers, sunroof, full facelift, 02 plate with 130k on the clock.

Says has full s/h with wallet full of reciepts and tax discs and apparently no rust in all the usual places. So...it should be fine.

It's going to be 'valeted' today  then sending me better quality photos later.

He's been sound and said he'll hold it for me with no deposit or anything so I think there is an element of trust there.

It failed on it's last MOT with ABS light not illuminating on ignition (for it's self test) but have confirmed with him and he says it does light up and go off so that was obviously fixed. There were no advisorys for rust or anything like that on the previous MOTS.

I actually feel excited about this one. I said before, I had a strange bad gut feeling about the blue one this thread is about.


One question, it has a private plate on it. He says he can do the plate swap online at the weekend when I go to see it, is it as simple as that these days?


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## Sam6er (Apr 3, 2016)

Private reg transfers are very easy to do these days. Last time i traded in my car with a private plate on there, i was able to get it removed and old plate registered back on the car within 5 - 10 mins online.

Good luck with this one, i hope it all works out bud.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Sam6er said:


> Private reg transfers are very easy to do these days. Last time i traded in my car with a private plate on there, i was able to get it removed and old plate registered back on the car within 5 - 10 mins online.
> 
> Good luck with this one, i hope it all works out bud.


Brilliant thank you, didn't want to do the 4 hour drive to find I can't drive it back because of the plate transfer.

I am pretty excited about this! Can't wait. Black car again :buffer:


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## Banksy40 (Sep 5, 2012)

Starbuck88 said:


> Brilliant thank you, didn't want to do the 4 hour drive to find I can't drive it back because of the plate transfer.
> 
> I am pretty excited about this! Can't wait. Black car again :buffer:


Everyone has camera phone now, can you not get him to do a 'virtual' walk around (facebook video type thing) before you make the trip? Get him to do a cold start, look at the paintwork, check the arches etc.


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## R5_RXK (Sep 13, 2017)

Starbuck88 said:


> One question, it has a private plate on it. He says he can do the plate swap online at the weekend when I go to see it, is it as simple as that these days?


with the private plate, yes it is quick to do online. but it'll still take up to a week for the new logbook to come on the old plate. So means you wont be able to drive the car away at the weekend unless you want to take it without signing the correct logbook.

quite alot ofreading covered online:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1517986

if you turn up, sign the logbook which has the private number plate on, he could actually loose the title to the private plate. Alternatively what are you going to sign?


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

You can do the log book online now too? does that make a difference?


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## Sam6er (Apr 3, 2016)

R5_RXK said:


> with the private plate, yes it is quick to do online. but it'll still take up to a week for the new logbook to come on the old plate. So means you wont be able to drive the car away at the weekend unless you want to take it without signing the correct logbook.
> 
> quite alot ofreading covered online:
> 
> ...


Sorry to the OP, but a little off topic, i bought a car with a private plate on the car which i have had for over 3 years now, i never got the title to the private plate, but does this mean i own it now and can apply to DVLA for the title to the plate?


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## R5_RXK (Sep 13, 2017)

Banksy40 said:


> Everyone has camera phone now, can you not get him to do a 'virtual' walk around (facebook video type thing) before you make the trip? Get him to do a cold start, look at the paintwork, check the arches etc.





Sam6er said:


> Sorry to the OP, but a little off topic, i bought a car with a private plate on the car which i have had for over 3 years now, i never got the title to the private plate, but does this mean i own it now and can apply to DVLA for the title to the plate?


correct as you bought the car with it on, you will be able to either put it on retention if you sell the car, or sell with the car. just apply to dvla,


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

OK I called DVLA.

They said it is just not possible to do plate change and then change of owner same day. She says as soon as the retention is done online, his paper logbook is not valid and won't have the right number on it to do the change of owner online.

So there are 2 options. 

1.) Get him to do the plate change and wait for new logbook to come through and I go up the following weekend to see/get the car.

OR
2.) He trusts me to take the car with the private reg and when I get the logbook through, we sort his plate out then.

so for that 2nd option...how do you do that so it's in his name the plate? I don't understand how that works.


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

OK I have spoke to the seller. He says he's going to trust me with his private plate and NOT do the retention so that we can do a proper change of ownership.


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## percymon (Jun 27, 2007)

Can you retain the private plate in his name if you are the one taking it off the vehicle ? You may be able to nominate him ?


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## Marve (Jul 5, 2013)

This chap seems pretty desperate to sell this car before the MOT is due in a couple of weeks...


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## R5_RXK (Sep 13, 2017)

Starbuck88 said:


> OK I have spoke to the seller. He says he's going to trust me with his private plate and NOT do the retention so that we can do a proper change of ownership.


so why is he trying to sell a car before taking off the private plate? this is one of the first things you would do when advertising a car.. Also if you sign the logbook with the private plate you'll have to insure it under that . You will then have to pay the insurance admin fee to later change the number plate. And if there any any issues DVLA end you may be lucky to even receive the new book!


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

Talking with the guy I think he just decided to sell and whacked it up quick on the E39 Owners Club UK page on Facebook. Maybe he wasn't expecting someone to bite so quickly. After all if it didn't sell within a couple of weeks. He'd have to MOT or Sorn it.

Some people are just...like that aren't they. Trying to read up on how to get his private plate back to him and seems plenty of people end up selling cars with private plates still on them then expecting new owners to wait for the car or leave without signing the official logbook.

So I don't know.

Ref the MOT...as long as there's no rot which I should be able to see for myself, I can check nearly everything else. Make sure it doesn't pull when braking etc lights etc. Only thing I wouldn't really be able to tell is rubber bushings on tie rods etc I guess.

If anybody could shed light on how I would get his private plate back to him, would be greatly appreciated.


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## 7and911 (Mar 2, 2014)

Banksy40 said:


> If its is old enough to have gone through an MOT take a look online and see where it was done.
> 
> Give the garage a call and see if they did any other work on it.


I thought DVLA recently blocked this information (location of MOT center). Do you have another website to check where the MOT was done?


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

7and911 said:


> I thought DVLA recently blocked this information (location of MOT center). Do you have another website to check where the MOT was done?


Yeah you can't see where it was done anymore.

Just reading up on it and looks like it's to do with data protection more than anything. I.E Mot Stations not being asked if this was OK and not being asked if it was OK to show their details.

Ref the car...The last MOT it failed on ABS lamp not illuminating. 100 or so miles later, it passed. I confirmed with the current seller the ABS lamp does now illuminate for the self test. It says the same date on both mots as 3rd of march but the expiry is 7th so i assume it was a quick retest on 7th of march when it took place.

Its had an advisory for an oil leak quite a few years ago but that's not been on there since etc. It's what I'd call a clean MOT history.


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## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-530i...241233?hash=item1ca27dda91:g:RE4AAOSwF7FakXlP

finders fee?!


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## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

OK so update on the £100. I've had it refunded on my Credit Card! Woop!

Barclays sent me a form to fill in, 3 pages long but with individual scenarios that you have to basically just fill in the bit that relates to your dispute. None matched anything about deposits etc, so I signed the goods or services declined section and put a note on there that I had included additional info.

I wrote out my version of events, included a print out of the original advert and sent it off. Couple of days ago, got a letter saying that they've refunded the £100. It does stipulate that if any new information comes to light from the seller that they have the right to put the £100 back on.

If anybody on here didn't know, I did go and actually buy the one that was talked about most recently in this thread with the short MOT and here is the project thread...

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=403411


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