# M135i vs S3



## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

Hi all, 

I made a post in here the other day regarding what I should do about changing my car. I hadn't really thought too much about financing a car as I thought most things would be ridiculously expensive. But I went to my local BMW to look at a new shape 118d M sport and when I told him my monthly budget and everything he said that I could have better than I 118d. So we did some figures and with a deposit that I am reasonably happy with (no part exchange so I understand I'm going to have to put a bit more in. Which I don't mind. Plus no haggling as yet). I can get a M135i 5dr Auto with a couple of options for £400 a month over 48 months. Through my calculations I would be in equity by around the 32nd/33rd month. So wouldn't even need to keep for three years. This would be a brand new car by the way.

So the M135i is my dream 'realistic' car. Had a drive and it was unbelievably quick. 8 speed auto box was fantastic and the car was genuinely nice to drive normally. No problems going 30mph. Ride was very smooth. Can't fault the drive tbh. Leather, xenons and most other things as standard. 

So after I left the BMW garage I thought that I may as well go to the Audi garage. Long story short; drove an S3 Sportback Auto. 59 plate, 50k miles, leather, heated seats, nav, flappy paddles, xenons. Same deposit as BMW but £300 a month. 


They were both amazing cars but the BMW just seemed in the next league in terms of speed. Obviously the S3 is an older car so therefore it's a bit slower, less mpg, more CO2. But then can I even use the beemer in the winter?! When the Quattro Audi wouldn't even flinch  

What would you do guys?!

A very confused...

Alex


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Snow tyres in the winter on the BMW And you're fine. Even then, normal tyres aren't as bad as people suggest. Winters work a treat though. 

The M135i is a better car than the RS3. The S3 is not comparable.


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Kerr said:


> Snow tyres in the winter on the BMW And you're fine. Even then, normal tyres aren't as bad as people suggest. Winters work a treat though.


I've been told a BMW with winter tyres is the same as a FWD car with 'normal' tyres. So I don't think that would be a worry Alex :thumb:



Kerr said:


> The M135i is a better car than the RS3.


Not down a wet twisty road it ain't 



Kerr said:


> The S3 is not comparable.


The new one is tho' :wave:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Bristle Hound said:


> I've been told a BMW with winter tyres is the same as a FWD car with 'normal' tyres. So I don't think that would be a worry Alex :thumb:
> 
> Not down a wet twisty road it ain't
> 
> The new one is tho' :wave:


You better listen to other people as that is wrong. Many FWD cars are also useless in the snow.

Check out many of the RWD with snow tyres v 4WD without, you're in for a shock. Also bear in mind 4wd cars do not stop or steer any better in the snow and that is often the issue.

The RS3 would win on a damp road. I'll give you that. It'll always be a dull drive no matter the weather.

A new S3 wasn't the question though. I've no idea how good the new one is.

No matter what i post now, you will take offence and pick an argument.


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## Willows-dad (Jul 12, 2012)

If you can wait for the new S3 and compare prices. As said the current S3 isn't in the same bracket, but still an awesome car. The Beemer still looks like a gopher with anyphylactic shock though, and it can't just be coincidence that when it snows beemers and Mercs are the first ones parking up by the dozen.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

M135i or S3 .... i've driven neither but based on the basic ingredients i would go with the BMW. However I would look at leasing, you might pay slightly less per month and not have to put such a big deposit in. £400 for 4 years is a big commitment though. Its near on 20k, a used one starts at 28k ....


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Kerr said:


> No matter what i post now, you will take offence and pick an argument.


Not taking offence and not picking arguments I can assure you my friend :thumb:

That why I used these emoticons -  :wave:  

I like to think its more of 'constructive comment'. Its all down to opinion and just because we don't agree it doesn't mean I take offence or want to pick an argument with you :thumb:

But hey, if your a bit sensitive about it all, I'll leave you alone ...  :lol:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Broadspeed were doing them for under £29k according to a guy on the BMW site. 

They also think that an LSD will be an option soon.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Bristle Hound said:


> Not taking offence and not picking arguments I can assure you my friend :thumb:
> 
> That why I used these emoticons -  :wave:
> 
> ...


I'm not sensitive. One second you tell me you were being funny, i make a reverse joke and you had a hissy fit.

Now you're posting nonsense to create an argument that doesn't exist.

Let's just stick to facts and the topic?

If the OP does consider the new S3 here is one of the reviews.

http://m.autocar.co.uk/car-review/first-drives/audi-s3-s-tronic-first-drive-review

Doesn't sound that much fun either.


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## Blackroc (Dec 10, 2012)

Ive had 3 - 1 series cars, and winter tyres are a must on a 1 series. The 50/50 balance, wide - very low profile summer tyres on the M135, and zero weight over the rears make them very twitchy (to say the least!) in below 7 degree temperatures. Bags of potatoes do next to nothing in your boot when tyres become stiff (that's why they are so bad in cold conditions for grip)

I've just sold my M135i - and had winter wheels / tyres as essentials from day one. I was able to get up slopes Range Rovers and X5s on summer tyres could only dream of, and as mentioned give you something like 60% better grip braking than summers on ice and snow. 

M135s are running just about the best summer car tires available at the moment - and as a result they will happily take on (and beat) an s3 on the twisties. Grip is phenomenal out of the box, and an LSD is only needed if you plan on track days. 

Check out Chris Harris's review on You Tube of the M135i v Audi RS3 (the RS3 should be a different league car to the M135 - and it wasn't!!)


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## JBirchy (Oct 9, 2010)

Blackroc said:


> Ive had 3 - 1 series cars, and winter tyres are a must on a 1 series. The 50/50 balance, wide - very low profile summer tyres on the M135, and zero weight over the rears make them very twitchy (to say the least!) in below 7 degree temperatures. Bags of potatoes do next to nothing in your boot when tyres become stiff (that's why they are so bad in cold conditions for grip)
> 
> I've just sold my M135i - and had winter wheels / tyres as essentials from day one. I was able to get up slopes Range Rovers and X5s on summer tyres could only dream of, and as mentioned give you something like 60% better grip braking than summers on ice and snow.
> 
> ...


^^^ I was going to suggest the same thing - watch the review!

Chris Harris has since done a dual review of the M135i and the A45 AMG and in the video he says "why didn't we bring an RS3 along? ... Because it would have been slaughtered!"

So I would say (having driven my brother-in-laws M135i) that the BMW is the car for you if you want a beautifully handling, lovely sounding 6-cylinder motor with a mega gearbox.

I achingly want to own one but it's out of my budget at the moment!

-- Out of interest @Blackroc, how come you've moved yours on?


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## CzechRich (Jul 25, 2008)

Yep budget for winter tyres on a Beemer, not too expensive with steel wheels, around £600 from Oponeo or mytyres.

Also get some PCP quotes from BMW, guaranteed future value gives you a way out at the end if the car is worth less, big petrol auto might depreciate more, as people are obsessed with diesels.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Blackroc said:


> Ive had 3 - 1 series cars, and winter tyres are a must on a 1 series. The 50/50 balance, wide - very low profile summer tyres on the M135, and zero weight over the rears make them very twitchy (to say the least!) in below 7 degree temperatures. Bags of potatoes do next to nothing in your boot when tyres become stiff (that's why they are so bad in cold conditions for grip)
> 
> I've just sold my M135i - and had winter wheels / tyres as essentials from day one. I was able to get up slopes Range Rovers and X5s on summer tyres could only dream of, and as mentioned give you something like 60% better grip braking than summers on ice and snow.
> 
> ...


Very good points and also most buyers trying to get out of RS3 realise how over priced they are , and will be lucky to get out without losing £10k plus crazy , and that we be lost customers for Audi for sure, unless Audi up Dynamics big style are will lose to Merc and Bmw


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## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

Thanks to everyone for the feedback, I really appreciate it. 

There are certainly good and bad points for both cars. In terms of head and heart feelings. 

My Dad and I are going to look at the Beemer again on Saturday and then I suppose I just need to decide if I can commit myself to £400 a month for at least 32/33 months :/

Anymore opinions would be greatly received :thumb:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Do take into account that even if you.budget allows you to purchase a M135i over a 118d, you won't run a M135i at 118d running costs.

BMWs are usually cheap to insure, but I'm guessing all insurance is expensive at your age 

Road tax, insurance, fuel and servicing will be a big jump.


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## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

Kerr said:


> Do take into account that even if you.budget allows you to purchase a M135i over a 118d, you won't run a M135i at 118d running costs.
> 
> BMWs are usually cheap to insure, but I'm guessing all insurance is expensive at your age
> 
> Road tax, insurance, fuel and servicing will be a big jump.


Yeah I understand. I wouldn't be spending much more on fuel or RFL because mpg and CO2 are similar to my current car. Plus I should imagine I'll be doing less miles next year than I do currently.
But yes, tyres, servicing and whatever else shall be increased.

Got a couple of quotes and can get insurance for about £300 a year more than I'm currently paying.

There is no doubt it shall cost me more. It's just whether I can afford it and if so. Justify it.

I may try and be sensible and wait a few months whilst seeing how much of an impact putting £400 away has on life.

Thanks


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## CzechRich (Jul 25, 2008)

Yep consider how your circumstances might change over the next 36 months, life events, job, housing, marraige, children, illness etc etc.

Also have a play with the finance calculator on the BMW site, compare HP to PCP, change deposit and term till you find something that suits you.

Bonus of a PCP is it gives you a guaranteed value and an easy way out after 3 years, or buy the car cash or refinance.

Also consider a diesel with M pack, might be more resaleable, better economy, and almost as fast.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

CzechRich said:


> Yep consider how your circumstances might change over the next 36 months, life events, job, housing, marraige, children, illness etc etc.
> 
> Also have a play with the finance calculator on the BMW site, compare HP to PCP, change deposit and term till you find something that suits you.
> 
> ...


They don't do a diesel anywhere near as fast.

The M135i values are holding rock solid. You're still £28k for an early used one.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

If the m135i is your dream 'realistic' car now, it probably won't be in a few years time.

£400 is a pretty big commitment each month, especially when you're not factoring anything else into the costs and whether you'd rather put that towards something else in a few years time.

But yeah, as mentioned, the good thing is it's PCP.


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## Tricky Red (Mar 3, 2007)

SteveTDCi said:


> M135i or S3 .... i've driven neither but based on the basic ingredients i would go with the BMW. However I would look at leasing, you might pay slightly less per month and not have to put such a big deposit in. £400 for 4 years is a big commitment though. Its near on 20k, a used one starts at 28k ....


I always find that people say £400 a month is about £4000 a year = £16000 over 4 years.

Lots of people seem to forget the extra 2 months of the year!!


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Tricky Red said:


> I always find that people say £400 a month is about £4000 a year = £16000 over 4 years.
> 
> Lots of people seem to forget the extra 2 months of the year!!


Sounds like they won't miss the extra £800 then. I'll take it then


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

M135i and some snow socks = sorted, you will pass everyone (including Range Rovers with sports tyres on) in the snow.

Or if you just fancy ok levels of winter grip just put on winter tyres.

FWD,RWD even 4WD can be pretty hopeless on icy roads, usually down to maufacturers fitting too wide tyres.

I saw an Audi TT the other day with 255's on the front!


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## WhiteRoc_170 (Jan 31, 2013)

Question regarding the s3 you test drove. How long was the finance deal on that compared to the BMW? And would you own the s3 at the end?


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## Tricky Red (Mar 3, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> Sounds like they won't miss the extra £800 then. I'll take it then


Take you on for it!! :thumb:


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Oh and £400 a month is cheap as chips for that kind of car.

Wait til you send you kids to nursery. My 1 child goes 2 days a week and the bill is usually around £400 a month!

Wait til i've got 2 in....£800 a month for 2 days a week.


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## johanr77 (Aug 4, 2011)

Personally speaking if you have the cash and you can afford to run it the M135 makes most sense, it'll be worth more when you come to get rid of it and it sounds very much like you prefer it. No point in getting a car you're not as keen on, unless the car you really want stretches your finances too far.


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## benji1205 (Jun 15, 2009)

Just to add my two pennys worth, I loved the thought of owning a M135i when I recently went down to the local BMW garage. Unfortunately, my sensible head took over and I decided to go for a 116d 1 series (automatic), with 1k miles on the clock and only 4 months old for £17k. Lovely example, no marks etc and I was really pleased with the car. The way that I saw it, I am 24 now have a some cash backed up ready for a house deposit. The way things are going at the moment with fuel prices, house prices etc I decided it was a better idea to invest the money in some bricks and mortar (whilst still having a nice motor) and then see about buying a car of the M135i's stature. As you say, £400 p/m for the next 48 months is a big commitment and at the moment, nobody can say that their job is stable and what is going to happen over the course of that time. Obviously feel free to ignore my comments if you are happy commit and buying the car will make you happy, just make sure you think long and hard and dont commit as an impulse buy.


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## CzechRich (Jul 25, 2008)

Yep as Robertdon says, the other way to look at it is if you are young with no commitments have a nice car whilst you can afford it. Wish I had gone a bit more upmarket with my cars whilst I lived at home and had low expenses.


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## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

WhiteRoc_170 said:


> Question regarding the s3 you test drove. How long was the finance deal on that compared to the BMW? And would you own the s3 at the end?


It was over 38 months because that was the longest period he could base it over for that age of car..



CzechRich said:


> Yep as Robertdon says, the other way to look at it is if you are young with no commitments have a nice car whilst you can afford it. Wish I had gone a bit more upmarket with my cars whilst I lived at home and had low expenses.


Yeah that's what I'm thinking. I don't have any commitments as such. I'm 20, I still live with my parents, I'm at uni but starting a well paid placement year in a short while. Have been fortunate enough to received a good amount of compensation for a car accident a few years ago. Plus I have a good regular income at the moment which I imagine to be more than what 95% of other students have. Affording the car isn't really a problem, it's just whether I want to be able to afford it if you see what I mean. In three/ years time I shall be finished Uni and will want to start saving to get a house and stuff. But I won't be able to do that and have a £400ppm car at the same time.


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

M135i all day every day. Style for miles and a drivers car.

Get it remapped or chipped and your into M3 performance without the running costs.

You know it makes sense.


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

alexjb said:


> I'm 20, I still live with my parents, I'm at uni but starting a well paid placement year in a short while.


Have you considered insurance?


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## CzechRich (Jul 25, 2008)

alexjb said:


> It was over 38 months because that was the longest period he could base it over for that age of car..
> 
> Yeah that's what I'm thinking. I don't have any commitments as such. I'm 20, I still live with my parents, I'm at uni but starting a well paid placement year in a short while. Have been fortunate enough to received a good amount of compensation for a car accident a few years ago. Plus I have a good regular income at the moment which I imagine to be more than what 95% of other students have. Affording the car isn't really a problem, it's just whether I want to be able to afford it if you see what I mean. In three/ years time I shall be finished Uni and will want to start saving to get a house and stuff. But I won't be able to do that and have a £400ppm car at the same time.


Maybe get a nice 1 series with an M pack, but a cheaper one. Same feel good factor, less cost.
Bet £250 with a good deposit would buy something good. Lot less than £400.


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## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

Grommit said:


> M135i all day every day. Style for miles and a drivers car.
> 
> Get it remapped or chipped and your into M3 performance without the running costs.
> 
> You know it makes sense.


Tell me about it. It was the nicest thing I have ever driven and so so quick!!



DW58 said:


> Have you considered insurance?


Yes, around £1,200 main driver fully comp. Just under £300 more than my 90bhp 2003 Mini One :thumb:



CzechRich said:


> Maybe get a nice 1 series with an M pack, but a cheaper one. Same feel good factor, less cost.
> Bet £250 with a good deposit would buy something good. Lot less than £400.


Yeah I did think about it but then would I regret it and just be moaning the whole time that it wasn't what I really wanted? Probably, I moan a lot...


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## CzechRich (Jul 25, 2008)

A cheaper 1 series might be more sustainable for you, running costs etc. I feel you might have the M135i for a year and then feel it costs too much, and lose a lot selling it, have negative equity on the finance etc. 
Also does your Uni let you bring a car, do you have a safe place to park it, dont want to leave an expensive car like that in a dodgy area or on the street parked. Likewise work placement, is there parking?


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

£1200 for a 20 year old sounds very good. I know people paying that for bangers.

I've always found BMWs to be cheap to insure. When I got my 335i it was less to insure that than any hot hatch back which I thought odd.


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## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

CzechRich said:


> A cheaper 1 series might be more sustainable for you, running costs etc. I feel you might have the M135i for a year and then feel it costs too much, and lose a lot selling it, have negative equity on the finance etc.
> Also does your Uni let you bring a car, do you have a safe place to park it, dont want to leave an expensive car like that in a dodgy area or on the street parked. Likewise work placement, is there parking?


Yes I understand what you're saying, thanking you for your imput 
Yeah I could agree but then who knows where I'd be in a year. It's a long time. 
Yes I have a house with some friends who I lived with during my first year. There is a lockable and useable garage joined to the house. Yes, good parking at work, security on gated entrance


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## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

Kerr said:


> £1200 for a 20 year old sounds very good. I know people paying that for bangers.
> 
> I've always found BMWs to be cheap to insure. When I got my 335i it was less to insure that than any hot hatch back which I thought odd.


I think it's got something to do with the fact that it is a newish model so there have not been that many claims made against them compared to an older gen of car. But yes, very strange indeed.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Do it, you'd only spend the £400 on weeing up a wall (being a student) otherwise.


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## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

robertdon777 said:


> Do it, you'd only spend the £400 on weeing up a wall (being a student) otherwise.


Or chucking it back up :lol:

But no, I'm not that bad.


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

DW58 said:


> Have you considered insurance?





alexjb said:


> Yes, around £1,200 main driver fully comp. Just under £300 more than my 90bhp 2003 Mini One :thumb:


You're kidding - I'd have expected around four times that. I find that figure very hard to believe.

Student
20 years old
Inexperienced driver
Just about as high a risk as you can get 

Also, look at it this way - student, flashy car, serious envy risk. I'd put money on that getting keyed or similar PDQ.


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## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

DW58 said:


> You're kidding - I'd have expected around four times that. I find that figure very hard to believe.
> 
> Student
> 20 years old
> ...


I know man. I had already thought about the possibility of envious damage.

But yes the insurance thing is funny. But I'm not complaining!! Also, that wasn't the only quote, I believe there were 4 other companies offering it for under £2,000!!


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

alexjb said:


> Yeah that's what I'm thinking. I don't have any commitments as such. I'm 20, I still live with my parents, I'm at uni but starting a well paid placement year in a short while. Have been fortunate enough to received a good amount of compensation for a car accident a few years ago. Plus I have a good regular income at the moment which I imagine to be more than what 95% of other students have. Affording the car isn't really a problem, it's just whether I want to be able to afford it if you see what I mean. In three/ years time I shall be finished Uni and will want to start saving to get a house and stuff. But I won't be able to do that and have a £400ppm car at the same time.


You're at uni, living with your parents and you want to spend 400pcm on a car? 

I just think you have your priorities a little wrong if having the car payment means you can't save to buy/rent a house away from your parents.

I'm also amazed the m135i comes in at 1200 for insurance. But good gawd, I can insure it for 288 :doublesho


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Shaun said:


> I would try the new S3 though as I would rather have that over the 135.


Ahhhhh at last, the voice of reason! :thumb::thumb::thumb:


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## DW58 (Nov 27, 2010)

I think the OP has got his priorities wrong to be honest, only my sixpenn'th.


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## Willows-dad (Jul 12, 2012)

Surely it's up to anybody how they spend their own hard earned. I'm sure 90% of us have lived beyond our means at some point, or made rediculous purchases. It's all part of shaping who we are. Have the expensive car while you live at home, cos you may not be able to when you've got more responsibilities.


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## Blackroc (Dec 10, 2012)

Grommit said:


> M135i all day every day. Style for miles and a drivers car.
> 
> Get it remapped or chipped and your into M3 performance without the running costs.
> 
> You know it makes sense.


It's already M3 performance - I can assure you of that (unless you take them to stupid speeds) I could hold 400bhp 1M (both manual cars) up to silly speeds on a private road test. They obviously arent as 'performance focused' as an M car, bit thats why they are an M Light. They are also approx 150kg lighter - and that makes a lot of difference! Remaps are coming in at 390bhp at the moment..

There is at least 1 video on You Tube of a standard 1M getting spanked by an M135 on foreign soil. It pulls away from standing starts (due to the LSD) but once up to roughly 100 - the M135 opens up and pulls away. Manual standard M135s can do 4.5s to 60mph - Autos 4.25s. The official figures are a tad conservative.

However - traffic light GPs are not what the M135 is all about. It's a fantastic all rounder, that grips and has huge levels of confidence inspiring driving abilities, whilst being able to get 30+mpg.

I would say that the only criticism I can put to it, is the lack of feel from the electronic steering. It's not the most communicative and is too light at times, and to some its enough to put them off buying one


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Never lived beyond my means, you can either afford it or not, I'm not against finance either but you should always be able to cover the repayments and have enough in the bank to either cove the loan period or enough equity in the car to cover the finance.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Willows-dad said:


> Surely it's up to anybody how they spend their own hard earned. I'm sure 90% of us have lived beyond our means at some point, or made rediculous purchases. It's all part of shaping who we are. Have the expensive car while you live at home, cos you may not be able to when you've got more responsibilities.


Actually, having a 400pcm payment counts as a responsibility.

I'd feel a little guilty if I was living at home and had a large amount of spare free money which I could be using to move out and not make others responsible for my situation.

Imho if you're young, the last thing you want is the burden of big monthly payments hanging over your head, unless you're employed and not shouldering any responsibility on other people to bail you out.

On another note, i'm amazed how insurers work, as it is half the price of the zed to insure, which is slower, valued at less and that is half again of what an m3 costs to insure. Maybe there isn't enough data for risk yet, bizarre.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Blackroc said:


> It's already M3 performance - I can assure you of that (unless you take them to stupid speeds) I could hold 400bhp 1M (both manual cars) up to silly speeds on a private road test. They obviously arent as 'performance focused' as an M car, bit thats why they are an M Light. They are also approx 150kg lighter - and that makes a lot of difference! Remaps are coming in at 390bhp at the moment..
> 
> There is at least 1 video on You Tube of a standard 1M getting spanked by an M135 on foreign soil. It pulls away from standing starts (due to the LSD) but once up to roughly 100 - the M135 opens up and pulls away. Manual standard M135s can do 4.5s to 60mph - Autos 4.25s. The official figures are a tad conservative.
> 
> ...


Does it have Variable Sport Steering as I speced that on my F31 and great for feel over the Servotronic steering


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## Turkleton (Apr 18, 2010)

> All the posts about how amazing the M135 is...


...but it's still a butt ugly 1 series hatchback, that will average low 20's to the gallon, not just resetting the trip on a long run as a lot of the owners do then claim how amazing they are....
Oh and the noise, the speakers really do provide that 'raw' sounding straight 6, or not...

I would far rather have a 135i coupe, better looking car, 9/10's the car of the 'superior' M135, but at 20, and a student, no.
I'm also 20, a month into a decently paid internship, driving a R53 Mini Cooper S, whilst in uni and doing a lot of work on the side, it was a squeeze running it and keeping it how I want.

My advice, have a nice car whilst you can, but don't be crippling yourself, £400pm is a lot of money, especially to a student.
Just think, after the years internship, are you really going to want to keep spending all that money you earned to keep the car that you could be bored of in a years time?

Food for thought...

And before it gets a rise, a 135i, coupe or hatch, is on my list of cars to own, but they are still flawed and aren't quite as superbly brilliant and amazing as they're made out to be. Fantastic cars, but not perfect.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Turkleton said:


> ...but it's still a butt ugly 1 series hatchback, that will average low 20's to the gallon, not just resetting the trip on a long run as a lot of the owners do then claim how amazing they are....
> Oh and the noise, the speakers really do provide that 'raw' sounding straight 6, or not...
> 
> I would far rather have a 135i coupe, better looking car, 9/10's the car of the 'superior' M135, but at 20, and a student, no.
> ...


I get 28MPG out of my 335i. I know quite a few people who have M135i and they are getting over 30MPGs.

There is some sound through the speakers, but the engine still sounds great on its own and outside.

The N55 has always been a good engine although the N54 is better in my opinion.


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## Turkleton (Apr 18, 2010)

Kerr said:


> I get 28MPG out of my 335i. I know quite a few people who have M135i and they are getting over 30MPGs.
> 
> There is some sound through the speakers, but the engine still sounds great on its own and outside.
> 
> *The N55 has always been a good engine although the N54 is better in my opinion*.


This is true, there's something about saying 3.0 twin turbo straight six that makes me feel warm inside...

MPG does come down to how it's driven, driven as intended within reason, you're definitely looking at 20-25mpg, it is a 3.0 straight six afterall... My Mini averaged 27.5mpg on my uni commute over about a year, now it's climbing up as it's a 50 mile commute each day, just got 34.5 from it today :driver:
I've seen 24 from it, and it's a 1.6...
In the grand scheme of things, it's an engineering feat how it's such a fast and capable car, and I would definitely like a late N54 with a lot of toys in a few years time, depending on the whole fuel/world situation


----------



## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

Boom






I did not expect that. Again m135i all the way.


----------



## Blackroc (Dec 10, 2012)

Grommit said:


> Boom
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Told you so


----------



## Blackroc (Dec 10, 2012)

Kerr said:


> I get 28MPG out of my 335i. I know quite a few people who have M135i and they are getting over 30MPGs.
> 
> There is some sound through the speakers, but the engine still sounds great on its own and outside.
> 
> The N55 has always been a good engine although the N54 is better in my opinion.


My other half does a 16 mile, urban drive too and from work. She doesn't hang around until she sits in traffic for 2 miles start stop. She was still getting 26-29mpg daily. 40mpg is easily possible on motorway journeys too


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

I think if BMW put a massive grill on it and 4 rings a AWD then you might get some more on board, just like the new BMW bikes people ditching there old bikes every day Suzuki the big looser


----------



## CzechRich (Jul 25, 2008)

Student with a £30k car, crazy....

I had a Fiat Uno worth a grand tops.

What about your £8k or so a year tuition fees?


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Would you honestly put your hard earned cash into a new S3? 
I have to agree the 1 series front I don't like but it's surely the driving experience most are after buying cars like these, but I think it more to do with some setting out there stale to not want certain brands.
I'm looking for a seat for daughter to learn to drive and considered many brands , current have mini. I have driving many Audi's and love the old Coupe 5 Cyliner Quattro and RS4 old one and TTRS , but drove S5 sounded great but boring like RS5 had so much potential but Audi blew it with Dynamics , they need to be good on that end of the market IMHO


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Turkleton said:


> This is true, there's something about saying 3.0 twin turbo straight six that makes me feel warm inside...
> 
> MPG does come down to how it's driven, driven as intended within reason, you're definitely looking at 20-25mpg, it is a 3.0 straight six afterall... My Mini averaged 27.5mpg on my uni commute over about a year, now it's climbing up as it's a 50 mile commute each day, just got 34.5 from it today :driver:
> I've seen 24 from it, and it's a 1.6...
> In the grand scheme of things, it's an engineering feat how it's such a fast and capable car, and I would definitely like a late N54 with a lot of toys in a few years time, depending on the whole fuel/world situation





Blackroc said:


> My other half does a 16 mile, urban drive too and from work. She doesn't hang around until she sits in traffic for 2 miles start stop. She was still getting 26-29mpg daily. 40mpg is easily possible on motorway journeys too


All the guys that own them say 30+mpg average and 40 on a run.

Tests say the same and goverment figures say 37.7mpg combined.

I do agree the claimed figures are nearly always exagerrated, but I believe claims of 15% less than official figures.


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## Grommit (May 3, 2011)

Blackroc said:


> Told you so


Hell yeah I want one now. :thumb:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Derekh929 said:


> Would you honestly put your hard earned cash into a new S3?
> I have to agree the 1 series front I don't like but it's surely the driving experience most are after buying cars like these, but I think it more to do with some setting out there stale to not want certain brands.
> I'm looking for a seat for daughter to learn to drive and considered many brands , current have mini. I have driving many Audi's and love the old Coupe 5 Cyliner Quattro and RS4 old one and TTRS , but drove S5 sounded great but boring like RS5 had so much potential but Audi blew it with Dynamics , they need to be good on that end of the market IMHO


We'll always seem biased for BMW and others won't look past VAG.

Having read reviews about the new S3 today after this thread, every single one says the M135i is a far better car and most said the S3 was a numb to drive.

I guess we all choose cars for different reasons but i can't fathom some people out. Their logic seems to be based purely on brand loyalty and a lack of understanding.

I understand fun not being near the top of the list on a family car that drives at 30mph or on.a motorway, but in 300bhp hot hatches the driving aspect has to be a huge part.

It's worse than speaking to an opposing football team fan that has just seen their team thumped 5-0.

They will ignore the 5-0 and focus on the fourth goal being offside was the only reason for the loss. They were unlucky still


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Derekh929 said:


> Would you honestly put your hard earned cash into a new S3?
> I have to agree the 1 series front I don't like but it's surely the driving experience most are after buying cars like these, but I think it more to do with some setting out there stale to not want certain brands.
> I'm looking for a seat for daughter to learn to drive and considered many brands , current have mini. I have driving many Audi's and love the old Coupe 5 Cyliner Quattro and RS4 old one and TTRS , but drove S5 sounded great but boring like RS5 had so much potential but Audi blew it with Dynamics , they need to be good on that end of the market IMHO


He only gave the choice of the two cars so I voted the new S3, as I said at that price point and wanting new I have no idea what I would get.


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## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your advice. But I just knew this would turn into 'oh money money money student student student.' I have given no exact information as to how much money I have saved, how much I earn each month, or anything else that provides me with an income. Nor have I mentioned anything about my parents financial situation. Yes, I understand it is a lot of money a month and I didn't give exact financials out because I knew people would just grumble at me. The purpose of this thread was for people to offer their opinions on the two different cars, how they compare and whether the monthly payments I have explained would be acceptable. I'm not having a go but I find it really difficult to understand why people think they can moan about other people's choices and financials. Sorry if I've offended anyone but I do put the important things first in life like family and the fact that I have to buy a house in the reasonably near future. 

Thank you to all.


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## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

Plus perhaps I should state. When I am at Uni during term time. I don't live at home because the two places are 150 miles apart. But do give my parents rent if they ask for it and regularly buy the shopping. 
Thanks.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Kerr said:


> We'll always seem biased for BMW and others won't look past VAG.
> 
> Having read reviews about the new S3 today after this thread, every single one says the M135i is a far better car and most said the S3 was a numb to drive.
> 
> ...


When the new Passat came years back I bought a silver Tdi Sport loved it for young family car great build better than BMW at time, but a bit floaty, was keen on Audi A4 and test drove it was so disappointed with engine and dynamics so bought e46 touring 330d m sport was fantastic. 
I missed my Passat it was very roomy, the thing is if Audi had built a great handling A4 I would have stayed in the brand. Just like Bmw was losing people with no AWD in uk 3 and 1 series they have fixed this and Audi are losing this share of market fast, I think most brands are lucky as many buyers buying all image rather than substance I'm afraid.
I would not be supprised if Merc temp me with new C Class they are getting close:thumb:


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## johanr77 (Aug 4, 2011)

Sod it chief don't justify yourself to anyone it's your life, if everyone listened to some goon on the net world would run to hell in a handcart damn fast.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

alexjb said:


> Thank you everyone for your advice. But I just knew this would turn into 'oh money money money student student student.' I have given no exact information as to how much money I have saved, how much I earn each month, or anything else that provides me with an income. Nor have I mentioned anything about my parents financial situation. Yes, I understand it is a lot of money a month and I didn't give exact financials out because I knew people would just grumble at me. The purpose of this thread was for people to offer their opinions on the two different cars, how they compare and whether the monthly payments I have explained would be acceptable. I'm not having a go but I find it really difficult to understand why people think they can moan about other people's choices and financials. Sorry if I've offended anyone but I do put the important things first in life like family and the fact that I have to buy a house in the reasonably near future.
> 
> Thank you to all.


What else have you looked at. ?


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## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

Shaun said:


> What else have you looked at. ?


The new Focus ST, Merc A250. Still need to go look at the MK7 GTi and a Mini JCW.

Any other suggestions would be awesome.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

alexjb said:


> The new Focus ST, Merc A250. Still need to go look at the MK7 GTi and a Mini JCW.
> 
> Any other suggestions would be awesome.


Merc A250 is very good:thumb:


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I'd go with the 135i


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

But always the Spec b option lol


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Ross said:


> I'd go with the 135i


I thought you had lost the plot :lol: until I saw your second post


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

haha I never forget


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

This is a tough one. 



Out of the two cars, I used to drive thousands of Audi's and the quattro is unreal in terms of grip in slippy conditions. Ive also driven thousands of BMWs from 116d to full fat M5's and have to say on a slippy patch you got to have your stig head on. Bmw is more easy to drive round town has a better turning circle etc. In terms of how to pay for it I am not clued up on deals of new cars so best take advice from someone else  It sounds like you know what your doing in terms of the money's so just go for it mate.



Enjoy the BMW lol


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Get a Quattro, rear vs 4x you're, gonna struggle in bad weather, corners etc. Get a Revo, or decent custom map and say bye bye bm;-)


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

DJ X-Ray said:


> Get a Quattro, rear vs 4x you're, gonna struggle in bad weather, corners etc. Get a Revo, or decent custom map and say bye bye bm;-)


If you are driving that fast in bad weather to require 4wd drive, you are going too fast for the conditions.

4WD doesn't help you stop and steer and the S3 is prone to going straight on anyways. Must Audis are understeer prone.

Bearing in mind we are talking about a 20 year old, costs are going to get further out of control with tuning.

There isn't too much on the N55 front tuning yet, but N54s have been proven at just short of 900bhp on standard engine internals.

0-100mph in 10.9secs is plenty fast enough for the real world.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Why all the talk of Snow, he goes to Uni (probably a major city - so not much snow ever)

+ being a student, bonus if it snows, they don't turn up half the time!


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

alexjb said:


> The new Focus ST, Merc A250. Still need to go look at the MK7 GTi and a Mini JCW.
> 
> Any other suggestions would be awesome.


I wonder whether the a45 will become more affordable as time goes on or how much different it would be?

Now wondering what insurance for that would be like given the m135i.

Don't think the a250 and 135i are like and like? Interesting about the mix though.

I guess it still depends on what you really want to use it for?

You could get some car to pose in (like some students I knew in something like an M3), a practical car, or a fun car?

Realistically, given you're only 20, I think they pose some restrictions on proper track days. Maybe if there are lots of country roads on your drive it could prove fun though.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I understand what people are saying about Quattro but on the odd I would prefer take my chances on a greasy back road in the Quattro compared to being caught out with a RWD car.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

SteveTDCi said:


> I understand what people are saying about Quattro but on the odd I would prefer take my chances on a greasy back road in the Quattro compared to being caught out with a RWD car.


At normal road speeds a Quattro drive train will only provide more grip on corner exit. A FWD or RWD car will corner (produce as much G) as a 4WD, it's just you can get on the throttle earlier, which if you have straightend up on exit won't matter what wheel drive the car is. I wouldn't be booting a 300bhp 4WD car on a greasy corner exit on a public road as it's very likely to understeer into a bush or send the tail round to the front.

But believe me you can still get them out of shape if you are being silly. My old Impreza was probably scarier on or near the limit than any FWD car i've owned and much on a par with the RWD cars.

The only thing it did better was pull away at junctions better than any FWD car in slippy conditions (no better than a RWD though) and it was better in snow on Summer tyres than either FWD or RWD on summer rubber.

Living in Brum i've never had the need for winter rubber on any car, FWD RWD 4WD.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

SteveTDCi said:


> I understand what people are saying about Quattro but on the odd I would prefer take my chances on a greasy back road in the Quattro compared to being caught out with a RWD car.


If you leave the traction control on in the BMW, it cuts in really early and stops you doing something silly.

Only turn it fully off if you can handle a car.

The vast majority of accidents in RWD cars is still people driving too fast and hitting something head on.

It doesn't matter what wheel drive you have, you've still only got 4 bits of rubber on the road.

Too fast into a corner still means you'll run out of road.

The thing is these days, everyone thinks that ABS, TC, SC, 4wd etc will save them . To many people are lulled into a false sense of security.


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## danga200 (Feb 22, 2010)

You can't seriously base your decisions on bad weather. Tbh if the weather gets very bad you shouldn't be out in it anyway.

I too have considered RWD/FWD/quattro and I have decided it's stupid to base a decision on something that only happens for maybe a week out of a whole year.

As said before, proper winter tyres will see you alright in a BMW (how do you think the colder countries cope? They don't avoid buying BMWs that's for sure).

And as said before you shouldn't be booting it in crappy weather, 4wd doesn't make you stop any quicker.

I personally vote M135i.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

SteveTDCi said:


> I understand what people are saying about Quattro but on the odd I would prefer take my chances on a greasy back road in the Quattro compared to being caught out with a RWD car.


That's cause you're a wuss


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I wouldn't buy a Quattro based on winter, but i would on wet greasy roads that we do get a lot of. Out Mk1 TT is the quattro and while i know its not full time 4wd It does give a lot of grip when pulling out of junctions.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

RisingPower said:


> That's cause you're a wuss


If i'm going to die or lose a leg i don't want it to be in a BMW


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

SteveTDCi said:


> If i'm going to die or lose a leg i don't want it to be in a BMW


Does losing a leg hurt less, in say: a Jag:lol:

The lambswool rugs might cushion the blow.


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Kerr said:


> The vast majority of accidents in RWD cars is still people driving too fast and hitting something head on.
> 
> It doesn't matter what wheel drive you have, you've still only got 4 bits of rubber on the road.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Well said my friend :thumb:

(& no VAG vehicle owners feelings were hurt in the making of Kerr's statement! :lol::lol::lol


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

A proper AWD system is what you need not those silly part time ones.


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## mart. (Jul 7, 2008)

Ross said:


> A proper AWD system is what you need not those silly part time ones.


I disagree.

Mine can AWD, FWD or RWD depending on what i'm doing. Best of all worlds :thumb:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Ross said:


> A proper AWD system is what you need not those silly part time ones.


Don't scoobies have fully adjustable power control to each wheel?


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

The part time 4WD drive systems make sense in theory, but most people don't like them. 

Full time 4WD saps power badly and hits fuel consumption. 

Some of the 4wd cars have upto 35 even 40% power losses between the flywheel and what gets to the road. 

Many fwd and rwd cars are only 10-15%. 

The differences can be huge. 

That's why you often see 2wd cars making easy work of similarly powered 4wd cars once on the move or lower powered cars keeping up.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Kerr said:


> The part time 4WD drive systems make sense in theory, but most people don't like them.
> 
> Full time 4WD saps power badly and hits fuel consumption.
> 
> ...


Gtr, 911, vette?  Rwd vs 4wd doesn't seem to make much odds between them, except rwd could be more fun in the corners.


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## bigslippy (Sep 19, 2010)

Kerr said:


> The part time 4WD drive systems make sense in theory, but most people don't like them.
> 
> Full time 4WD saps power badly and hits fuel consumption.
> 
> ...






[/I]

I see what you mean


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

bigslippy said:


> A6 V6 TDI Biturbo 313 CV vs Porsche 911 carrera S.avi - YouTube[/I]
> 
> I see what you mean


Only one problem there is not many roads without corners :thumb: and AWD great off mark with AWD , just look at New series salon 330d RWD & AWD 0.4 quicker AWD , but then after that weight a disadvantage and mid range better in RWD, the new 335D will do under 5 sec to 60mph , but mid range is key for me:thumb:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Bristle Hound said:


> Agreed. Well said my friend :thumb:
> 
> (& no VAG vehicle owners feelings were hurt in the making of Kerr's statement! :lol::lol::lol


This must be a Detailing World First:lol:


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2013)

Kerr said:


> The vast majority of accidents in RWD cars is still people driving too fast and hitting something head on.


Can i ask where you got this information, could you provide me links ?


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Kerr said:


> The part time 4WD drive systems make sense in theory, but most people don't like them.
> 
> Full time 4WD saps power badly and hits fuel consumption.
> 
> ...





bigslippy said:


> A6 V6 TDI Biturbo 313 CV vs Porsche 911 carrera S.avi - YouTube[/I]
> 
> I see what you mean


If you read my post it says on the move, not a standing start.

I'm still utterly confused how that 911 lost to that Audi. I don't know anything about the A6, but after Googling it, claims are 0-60MPH in 5.5secs which in a big diesel car like that is pretty impressive.

The Porker should still be there in under 5 secs and at 100MPH in 10secs.

That race shouldn't have actually been close, but I don't understand the German to know if the car was tuned to be faster than the Porsche?

If you watch some of the cars doing standing quarter mile runs, the ones who have the balls to do full on launches is impressive. It knocks the life out of clutches and the drivetrain though.

The simple maths is 4wd systems do drain power. Many systems are taking 35-40% power. Some are better.

The engine might produce 300BHP, but you might only have 200BHP at the wheels.

Some 2wd cars with efficient powertrains might have 260BHP at the wheels from 300BHP produced by the engine.

Obviously what power you have at the wheels goes a long way to determine how fast your car is.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Kerr said:


> If you read my post it says on the move, not a standing start.
> 
> I'm still utterly confused how that 911 lost to that Audi. I don't know anything about the A6, but after Googling it, claims are 0-60MPH in 5.5secs which in a big diesel car like that is pretty impressive.
> 
> ...


That's great, but, how much power do you think you can put through normal sized road tyres in the corners?

The amount of power the gallardo could put through corners was amazing.

I'd love to try a gtr but i'd imagine it much the same.

Sure, there are some losses through 4wd and they are probably slower from a standing start, but that becomes far less relevant in corners.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Here is one for Bigslipy:thumb: German model chooses New S3 over the M135i So is it more suited to Girls? , BMW wins the Drag Race at the end by a car length even with the huge traction advantage of the AWD of the line.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> That's great, but, how much power do you think you can put through normal sized road tyres in the corners?
> 
> The amount of power the gallardo could put through corners was amazing.
> 
> ...


We are talking general terms here as there is so many variable. My point above was 4wd does zap power and use up extra fuel. I was talking real world road terms.

Now talking limits on super cars, we are now firmly into track day driving.

On a good road surface, I don't have any issues putting down the power and I don't even have a LSD. Yes in the wet out of tight bends it will spin up the inside the wheel.

There isn't really a place in the world I would be driving on public roads to be worrying about getting the power down safely in wet to justify the speeds involved.

You don't have any trouble putting down the power of a Ferrari on a good surface either.

Every car has to be taken on it's own when accounting for handling.

The Lambo I can only imagine would be a superb car to drive, but is it any quicker than a Ferrari 458 etc? I think it is actually a lot slower.

The GTR is physics defying. It isn't straight up mechanical 4wd grip though. It has all sorts of computers, gizmos and gadgets doing things to make it behave much better than it should.

Look at many of the 4wd we are talking about in this thread, and the 4wd systems are often the issue why they aren't good at corners. The front wheels have so much of the power it drags the car into an understeer motion and makes it slower in the corners.

4WD does not make you faster in corners at all. You still need to slow to the correct speed to achieve the correct line and turn to make the apex before you even start thinking about getting back on the power.

It may help you on occasion to get the power down on the way out though, but in the vast majority of cars I don't have any issues putting down what I've got.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Kerr said:


> We are talking general terms here as there is so many variable. My point above was 4wd does zap power and use up extra fuel. I was talking real world road terms.
> 
> Now talking limits on super cars, we are now firmly into track day driving.
> 
> ...


The m3 could easily spin the wheels up if you drive like a tool. Much, much harder to do through 4 wheels.

Gtr isn't a supercar, nor is the vette, or the 911, or are they?

The point is, any car with that much power you can't use the power on most roads sensibly or safely. So, it comes down more to where it should be used, the track.

I couldn't care less whether the fezza was faster than the lambo, I know which i'd rather have.

I think 4wd is just one of the issues, lots of them re so massively heavy up front they understeer massively anyways.

The gallardo could keep amazing pace through the corners.

I don't think 4wd is necessary, in fact I think rwd is far more fun, fwd utterly boring.

The s3 is imho, boring, the m135i, not that much more inspiring.

Saw an f type today though, blow me down :argie::argie:


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## bigslippy (Sep 19, 2010)

Derekh929 said:


> Only one problem there is not many roads without corners :thumb: and AWD great off mark with AWD , just look at New series salon 330d RWD & AWD 0.4 quicker AWD , but then after that weight a disadvantage and mid range better in RWD, the new 335D will do under 5 sec to 60mph , but mid range is key for me:thumb:


What's the problem Kerr ... I mean Derek :lol:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

This thread will be continued on the Jeromy Kyle Show 11.30pm tonight:lol:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

bigslippy said:


> What's the problem Kerr ... I mean Derek :lol:


Gawd it's like cars, by accountants. How bloody boring


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## bigslippy (Sep 19, 2010)

Derekh929 said:


> This thread will be continued on the Jeromy Kyle Show 11.30pm tonight:lol:


Jeremy Kyle presents ... BMW lovers or Audi haters ...the debate begins :lol:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Derekh929 said:


> Here is one for Bigslipy:thumb: German model chooses New S3 over the M135i So is it more suited to Girls? , BMW wins the Drag Race at the end by a car length even with the huge traction advantage of the AWD of the line.
> 
> GRIP - BMW M135i vs. Audi S3 (HD) | Subtitle | Mai 2013 - YouTube


The M135i was 1.4 secs faster around the track on a bumpy concrete road surface. That is impressive as that is where 4WD should help.

As for the 1/4mile, once the BMW got moving, it walked past the Audi and was moving away at a good rate.

However, that Audi hasn't got a full time 4WD system. All the power goes to the front wheels and it doesn't suffer the losses the full time systems do.

For all German cars, I've gave up reading German car mags. They are hugely biased of their own countries cars.

They always test the cars a mile quicker than every other reputable magazine in the world.


----------



## bigslippy (Sep 19, 2010)

Derekh929 said:


> Here is one for Bigslipy:thumb: German model chooses New S3 over the M135i So is it more suited to Girls? , BMW wins the Drag Race at the end by a car length even with the huge traction advantage of the AWD of the line.
> 
> GRIP - BMW M135i vs. Audi S3 (HD) | Subtitle | Mai 2013 - YouTube


S3 was obviously on remould tyres


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> The m3 could easily spin the wheels up if you drive like a tool. Much, much harder to do through 4 wheels.
> 
> Gtr isn't a supercar, nor is the vette, or the 911, or are they?
> 
> ...


Fully agree. For 99.99% of the year 4wd is overkill and pointless for the majority of the population.

Although my avatar pokes fun at FWD, it isn't as bad as people suggest.

FWD are getting to breaking point now for power though. They can be scarier than RWD in poor weather.

Get on the power too early and the wheels light up and you find yourself going straight ahead.

That's the biggest problem with FWD cars, the front wheels are being asked to do far too much now.

I know people with Focus RSs and they are only getting 4-5k miles out of front tyres.

As I've said for a while, Jaguar are making some really nice cars these days.

I did have a poke around the F type when it was in the shopping centre a few weeks back. Just a bit out of the budget though.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

bigslippy said:


> S3 was obviously on remould tyres


Typical cheap skate VAG driver. :doublesho


----------



## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

I wouldn't call an S3 'boring' i used to own an 8l model, admitedly i had it mapped to over 360 bhp but even when i bought at 210 standard it wasn't a slouch, for me it's about the man behind the wheel no matter what the car and power, some people are just better drivers than others, in my experience i never really had any lack of power moments. Personally i prefer to test drive my choice of cars as opposed to take net reviews as gospel. Just my opinion


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

bigslippy said:


> S3 was obviously on remould tyres


:lol: Still on the remoulds in the Highlands next you will be telling me going clubbing Highlands style includes take a Bat out on night out to get a girl:doublesho


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## bigslippy (Sep 19, 2010)

Kerr said:


> Typical cheap skate VAG driver. :doublesho


Cheap skate is somebody getting Carpro up to their place to do a demo day and use their car for demonstrating the products on :lol:


----------



## bigslippy (Sep 19, 2010)

Derekh929 said:


> :lol: Still on the remoulds in the Highlands next you will be telling me going clubbing Highlands style includes take a Bat out on night out to get a girl:doublesho


Don't need a bat , me black corduroy breeks does the trick


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

bigslippy said:


> Cheap skate is somebody getting Carpro up to their place to do a demo day and use their car for demonstrating the products on :lol:


That's called a sensible thinker.

Who did that? I bet he picked a good car too?


----------



## bigslippy (Sep 19, 2010)

DJ X-Ray said:


> I wouldn't call an S3 'boring' i used to own an 8l model, admitedly i had it mapped to over 360 bhp but even when i bought at 210 standard it wasn't a slouch, for me it's about the man behind the wheel no matter what the car and power, some people are just better drivers than others, in my experience i never really had any lack of power moments. Personally i prefer to test drive my choice of cars as opposed to take net reviews as gospel. Just my opinion


Bang on :thumb:


----------



## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

DJ X-Ray said:


> I wouldn't call an S3 'boring' i used to own an 8l model, admitedly i had it mapped to over 360 bhp but even when i bought at 210 standard it wasn't a slouch, for me it's about the man behind the wheel no matter what the car and power, some people are just better drivers than others, in my experience i never really had any lack of power moments. Personally i prefer to test drive my choice of cars as opposed to take net reviews as gospel. Just my opinion


It could have 800 horses and i'd still find it boring


----------



## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Kerr said:


> Fully agree. For 99.99% of the year 4wd is overkill and pointless for the majority of the population.
> 
> Although my avatar pokes fun at FWD, it isn't as bad as people suggest.
> 
> ...


You're right, they are a bit out of the budget, but would you believe you could get a v8 vantage for about the budget these days :doublesho Ok ok, so it would cost a *little* more to run 

Either way I don't personally see the appeal of the m135i or s3 any more than any other hatchbacks.


----------



## bigslippy (Sep 19, 2010)

Kerr said:


> Fully agree. For 99.99% of the year 4wd is overkill and pointless for the majority of the population.
> 
> Although my avatar pokes fun at FWD, it isn't as bad as people suggest.
> 
> ...


Me thinks F Type is on Top Gear tmw night , it looks lovely


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

OK so lets help the poor chap out and give him either another option on what to buy or tell him which you would buy.


----------



## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Shaun said:


> OK so lets help the poor chap out and give him either another option on what to buy or tell him which you would buy.


Been done done

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=3867133&postcount=37


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

I think this convo is getting away from the op question.

Either cars would be fine for this chaps needs. I wouldn't turn down either of them if I was given either the audi or bmw. Both make great cars. Everyone is talking about the cars limits and lets face it the city driving this chap is going to be doing 99% of the time wont be on the limit so it really doesn't matter what car gets off the line quicker or understeers etc

The way i look at it is it doesn't matter what car you drive its all down to the driver. That's why F1 drivers can make a reasonably priced car go faster than the average jo. Also People like Jimmy Carr who have no clue or interest in cars (like we do) tend to be able to drive quickly.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> I think this convo is getting away from the op question.
> 
> Either cars would be fine for this chaps needs. I wouldn't turn down either of them if I was given either the audi or bmw. Both make great cars. Everyone is talking about the cars limits and lets face it the city driving this chap is going to be doing 99% of the time wont be on the limit so it really doesn't matter what car gets off the line quicker or understeers etc
> 
> The way i look at it is it doesn't matter what car you drive its all down to the driver. That's why F1 drivers can make a reasonably priced car go faster than the average jo. Also People like Jimmy Carr who have no clue or interest in cars (like we do) tend to be able to drive quickly.


It's all just harmless banter now.

Most people can't drive at all. They have no understanding how to position or move a car correctly.

I'm not convinced about Jimmy Carr and think the Rover 75 thing was a joke for Top Gear.

Sometimes he messed around and looked like a bad driver, but then often did everything right. I've the feeling he plays up to the cameras.

He was very well paid by Shell and I doubt he would have had a Rover 75 in those days, and since he is now a multi-millionaire, I guess he has something far better now.

You often get the complete opposite like Steve Tyler last week. On there boasting about he had a Hennessey Venom GT, a Lotus 7 and some mentally fast bike and then couldn't drive to save himself.

Pretty much all the drivers that have done well are all car nuts and all have a fair amount of track experience.

Occasionally you might get someone who is fearless, but if you don't know how to position or drive a car, you'll only ever get the very very odd exception.

I always have a chuckle at watching videos of my local track during track days.

People post up videos posting about how good they are and it is often the opposite.

A guy thought he was a superstar driving around Knockhill in 1.05 in his GTR.

I pointed out that road legal Fiesta XR2s with 97BHP go round in 1.03 he went mental.

If you could blindfold people and allowed them to drive countless cars in the same class, I bet that most people couldn't tell any difference between them.

They would all look, feel and drive the same.

I see people asking all the time how to make their car faster, remaps, new suspension etc, the best money you can spend is getting some proper driving tuition.


----------



## shonajoy (Jan 27, 2009)

Kerr said:


> It's all just harmless banter now.
> 
> Most people can't drive at all. They have no understanding how to position or move a car correctly.
> 
> ...


Best money you can spend get a sports bike and ride.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

shonajoy said:


> Best money you can spend get a sports bike and ride.


I'm sure they are great fun.

Bikes have never interested me though. I never look at a bike and think, wow that's nice.

I see them as purely toys with no practicality at all.

The speed must be incredible though, but as brought up a few times already in this thread, cars that do 0-100MPH in 10 secs are more than fast enough for the roads.

Some of the bikes are just stupidly fast.

There is also more bikers that are worse road users(in proportion) than car drivers.

I do personally think they are too fast and dangerous for the roads. I know the rider is often to blame, but you don't buy something you'll never use right.


----------



## shonajoy (Jan 27, 2009)

Kerr said:


> I'm sure they are great fun.
> 
> Bikes have never interested me though. I never look at a bike and think, wow that's nice.
> 
> ...


Personally, I have a slow bike relatively speaking. I've been riding seven years, never had an accident, done 14000 miles purely for fun in various countries in the last 18 months alone. I've got a triumph street triple R 105bhp at 170kgs wet IIRC, more that fast enough for me, it's all about technique, doing corners smoothly and efficiently, it's a total blast.  I personally think if you think that way you should drive a Kia 1.1l otherwise you're being a hypocrite. It's all about the journey:doublesho my car takes me to work, my bike takes me to fun. You'll find also most bikers don't want to die, like me, I ride like car drivers are out to kill me. I'm super paranoid about lifesavers etc. there's total idiot bikers out there just like total idiot bams riding about cruising with their LED's :lol:


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

shonajoy said:


> Personally, I have a slow bike relatively speaking. I've been riding seven years, never had an accident, done 14000 miles purely for fun in various countries in the last 18 months alone. I've got a triumph street triple R 105bhp at 170kgs wet IIRC, more that fast enough for me, it's all about technique, doing corners smoothly and efficiently, it's a total blast.  I personally think if you think that way you should drive a Kia 1.1l otherwise you're being a hypocrite. It's all about the journey:doublesho my car takes me to work, my bike takes me to fun. You'll find also most bikers don't want to die, like me, I ride like car drivers are out to kill me. I'm super paranoid about lifesavers etc. there's total idiot bikers out there just like total idiot bams riding about cruising with their LED's :lol:


My last place of work was just full of bikers.

It was a midlife thing for most and the car park soon ended up superbike heaven, if you are into that kind of thing. They did try to get me but failed.

Everyone started out at the same time and within months they were all on to big bikes.

There was various bikes all brand new from R1s, Hyabusa, Ducatis and right the way through to a guy who bought an Augusta 312RR which I'm told was mega expensive.

It looked good, but the time and hassle of wrapping up after work, I was halfway to the M8 before they had got the leathers over their fat arses.

I see the adverts on the radio up out way have completely changed recently.

Before it always prompted the car driver to think biker, not the adverts say the opposite.

Too much onus was put on the car driver before and often unfairly. People are really caught out how fast these bikes catch up and move about them.

Drivers don't deal with bikers on a daily basis and it catches a lot out.

I've seen it happen quite a few times and wonder why the biker has put himself is such a vulnerable position and not seen what was unfolding.

I know if I was at such risk I wouldn't take the chances that some do, even though in certain circumstances they aren't doing anything technically wrong.

Happy biking.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I sat in the m135i yesterday, it was very nice, the steering shell felt right, the seating position did too. Mind you the new golf gti is also very posh inside.


----------



## mart. (Jul 7, 2008)

Kerr said:


> The simple maths is 4wd systems do drain power. Many systems are taking 35-40% power. .


That's ********, typically FWD will take 10-12% RWD 14-18% AWD 18-24%.

To the OP I wouldn't buy a NEW 135i or an S3 with 50k on the clock. I'd be looking at a lower milleage S3 or even a scooby for fun AWD with power.


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## James Bagguley (Jul 13, 2013)

This thread is mental! some good reading though, nice one guys.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

mart. said:


> That's ********, typically FWD will take 10-12% RWD 14-18% AWD 18-24%.
> 
> To the OP I wouldn't buy a NEW 135i or an S3 with 50k on the clock. I'd be looking at a lower milleage S3 or even a scooby for fun AWD with power.


You'll see that word MANY?

Yes you get better and worse 4wd systems.

Subarus have over 30% drive train power losses for example.

An M135i leaves a Subaru STi for dead.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Here is a video of the M135i v Subaru STi






Having driven both, I pretty much agree with this guy. Especially the jumping back 20 years comment.


----------



## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

So we know what Kerr would choose how about other people say what they would have.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Shaun said:


> So we know what Kerr would choose how about other people say what they would have.


Is there any issue with me taking part in a conversation, especially when people quote me?


----------



## mart. (Jul 7, 2008)

Kerr said:


> You'll see that word MANY?
> 
> Yes you get better and worse 4wd systems.
> 
> ...


It's about 22% on 2012 model.

Think you need to do some research before rattling off figures.


----------



## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Kerr said:


> Is there any issue with me taking part in a conversation, especially when people quote me?


I was simply asking others to join in.


----------



## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Plus I want the thread to get back onto topic.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

mart. said:


> It's about 22% on 2012 model.
> 
> Think you need to do some research before rattling off figures.


You see I've been talking general terms. I've not been "rattling off" specific figures for certain cars. Then I'd be wrong.

I can't think of seeing a 2012 Subaru, but plenty before and they have been where I've said.


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Shaun said:


> I was simply asking others to join in.





Shaun said:


> Plus I want the thread to get back onto topic.


They are free to join in if they want and many have. I'm sure everyone here knows how the forum works and doesn't require prompting or singling out me.

The thread is still around cars and somewhat relevant to the base question and other cars in the same category.

This is what I don't understand about you Shaun. You are quite happy to allow topics to go off topic, you've been guilty of posting off topic yourself then pulling up others for posting the same thing, but opposite side of the fence.

Nothing is wrong here, just let it roll. The OP has got what opinions he needed and the thread will just go along to the end with nobody getting harmed.

No need to get upset or lock the thread.


----------



## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Some people are afraid to join in for fear of having their opinions beaten down, I am simply asking that we get back on topic as we have pages and pages of posts and not that many contain an actual suggestion of what car to buy.


----------



## shonajoy (Jan 27, 2009)

Kerr said:


> You'll see that word MANY?
> 
> Yes you get better and worse 4wd systems.
> 
> ...


I don't get why you're slating bikers for having more power than they use, yet leaving another car for dead is a good thing? You can't leave another car for dead on most daily driving, unless you're doing track days?

Mid life crisis for me, after biking earlier in life. Waited till my kids were older, been driving cars for 24 years, never had an accident. I'm not a fan of anyone being a speed warrior on the roads, it's not safe for anyone and the roads here are in too poor a state. Having a bike doesn't automatically make you a bad road user.

Don't get me started on cyclists- weaving in and out of traffic, undertaking, ignoring red lights....

Sorry off topic will leave it there.


----------



## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

mart. said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Mine can AWD, FWD or RWD depending on what i'm doing. Best of all worlds :thumb:


More to go wrong :thumb:


----------



## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

I'd buy the BMW !


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

I'd go for Audi.


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

Yeah but there boring.














I kid of course


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

alexjb said:


> The new Focus ST, Merc A250. Still need to go look at the MK7 GTi and a Mini JCW.
> 
> Any other suggestions would be awesome.


I saw a mid sized new mercedes today and it looked nice and sounded like thunder,!, no idea on model though?,any idea?, I would have it over both cars mentioned by the Op.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Probably a new A class hatchback pretty nice looking motor. The AMG one looks good


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

DJ X-Ray said:


> Probably a new A class hatchback pretty nice looking motor. The AMG one looks good


I think it was bigger than that, by the noise it had some sort of V engine in it?, isn't the A class a 4pot.


----------



## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Shaun said:


> I think it was bigger than that, by the noise it had some sort of V engine in it?, isn't the A class a 4pot.


Yeah, twin turbo 355 bhp


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

DJ X-Ray said:


> Yeah, twin turbo 355 bhp


It's only a single turbo running at 26psi apparently. The M135i is 10psi Max.

That's quite a lot of boost. It will be interesting to see the lifespan of the turbo.


----------



## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Shaun said:


> I think it was bigger than that, by the noise it had some sort of V engine in it?, isn't the A class a 4pot.


C63? A class sound rattly.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Looks like a C class of some sort after a look on the mercedes website, I seem to remember seeing 3 numbers on it?


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

C63 is the likely choice.

Lovely cars and engines, but in a different league in costs.


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Shaun said:


> So we know what Kerr would choose how about other people say what they would have.





Shaun said:


> Some people are afraid to join in for fear of having their opinions beaten down, I am simply asking that we get back on topic as we have pages and pages of posts and not that many contain an actual suggestion of what car to buy.


Quite correct Shaun :thumb:

You can't mention an Audi (or for that fact any VAG car) in ANY post without Kerr slagging them off. :wall:

His comments about VAG cars are not in the least constructive. I get the feeling he's just wind up merchant when it comes to this subject.

Shame, because some of what he says is quite good, but then spoils it with spouting more rubbish about the VAG brand.

I think we all know his opinion by now. I think he needs to move on before he gets called a 'audi owners troll'! :lol:

Bet he's never owned, let alone driven an Audi ... :wave: :lol:

Me thinks the big moderator stick should come out! :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Bristle Hound said:


> Quite correct Shaun :thumb:
> 
> You can't mention an Audi (or for that fact any VAG car) in ANY post without Kerr slagging them off. :wall:
> 
> ...


What is the issue that you keep chasing me around now?

This has been going on all week, one second you say you are being funny and even add smiley faces, next you having a hissy fit on the same subject, next you say I've understood you wrong and now your moaning to have action taken against me.

I said earlier in other posts you seem awfully keen to pick an argument now. I barely seen you before and now you're always there.

I've honestly no idea how to take you. Your come across as angry whilst pretending to take it in good spirit. 

I've driven loads of Audis. Like quite a few of them too, but we haven't really got talking about RS6s or RS4s too often.

What I've said about VAGs is true in my opinion. I have also said I do joke around a bit and live up to the stereotype.

Define what you call slagging off? What have I said that is grossly inaccurate or wrong?


----------



## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

I'm a vag owner and used to work for VW.
I slag them of all the time. There good vehicles but not my cup of tea for many reasons.
Just another persons opinion, vag drivers don't like those opinions


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Bristle Hound said:


> Quite correct Shaun :thumb:
> 
> You can't mention an Audi (or for that fact any VAG car) in ANY post without Kerr slagging them off. :wall:
> 
> ...


I see bmw slagging from the other side of the fence too.

So what if someone doesn't like specific audis or bmws?

I think the s3 is boring, along with the m135i, but the r8 doesn't sound that bad, nor the m5 and maybe the new m8 prototype.

Audis are a bit samey though, along with most german cars.

What makes you think he wants to own an audi of no specific model?


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

possul said:


> I'm a vag owner and used to work for VW.
> I slag them of all the time. There good vehicles but not my cup of tea for many reasons.
> Just another persons opinion, vag drivers don't like those opinions





RisingPower said:


> I see bmw slagging from the other side of the fence too.
> 
> So what if someone doesn't like specific audis or bmws?
> 
> ...


BMW are slagged on these boards as much as any brand. Every time there is an issue with BMW, cracked alloy wheels, the security flaw and the 2.0l diesel engines, you've got queues of people lining up for a go at them. Threads started to specifically highlight the problems.

They are completely ignorant to the fact although BMW does have these issues, their cars have the exact same issues and often worse.

We've got a guy that just blames BMW for absolutely everything. He even blamed BMW for a bad repair a body shop done. It's mental how far some people let a dislike go.

It's also amazing how far people let their brand loyalty get in the way of accepting a fair opinion.

I was active in the Golf like or no like thread. However you weren't actually allowed to say no like as this offended far too much.

As i said at the time, my biggest issues with the Golf was the fact it is too expensive for what it is, and the fact that owners look down with complete contempt to cars that are pretty much as good in many areas, whilst better in others.

To me it's those people that have the issues.

As your point Risingpower, read through the recommend me a car threads.

How many time have you read people asking what Audi should i buy lately? No specific model, no requirements just it has to be an Audi and nothing else.

It isn't the car they are buying into, it's purely the brand.

Many of them aren't actually that good at all, some are really poor driving cars but nobody can say that on DW without the swarm coming around.

The brand is still something I struggle badly with, as I just don't understand where the groundswell has come from in recent years that puts Audi and VW on such a pedestal, unfairly in my opinion, whilst BMW has lost lots of credibility.

It helped me buy my car as the used values of 335i fell through the floor and you get a lot of car for not much money. Not the greatest car in the world, but as I've maintained for a day-to-day car with performance and running costs, there isn't much direct competition.

If you read a lot of my comments, I've been critical of all German brands. I do agree that the designers have often just used tracing paper and I don't know how often I've said that none of the brands are anywhere near as good or relaible people assume.

I don't actually single out Audi/Vw as some people actually want to see. Some people just want to be offended.

If they didn't kid themselves on too much about how good their cars are, they wouldn't get so offended.


----------



## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

Sorry guys, had a very busy weekend!
I'm glad there are a lot of suggestions coming from people so thank you very much.
Just to update you all; I'm going to look at a MK7 GTI tomorrow and we shall see what happens. 
I will let you all know!!


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

alexjb said:


> Sorry guys, had a very busy weekend!
> I'm glad there are a lot of suggestions coming from people so thank you very much.
> Just to update you all; I'm going to look at a MK7 GTI tomorrow and we shall see what happens.
> I will let you all know!!


Good Luck, how about GT86 with tunning kit, great motor to drive as well


----------



## eddie bullit (Nov 23, 2007)

I decided to try a Golf Gti after many years avoiding one. They are good cars that do everything well just not the best. Look to The Megane for that. I'd say VW trade highly on their image as do Audi. But please don't tell me an S3 is an exciting car to drive... Fast yes..fun no.
I'd takes the BMW by then way...as said see the review on YouTube.


----------



## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Looks good in white the new GTI


----------



## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Now i trust we are going to stay on the subject and if anyone really want to continue with the side debate then start your own thread and let this one try to stay on topic.



To the OP sorry how this has gone and let us know how you get on with the Golf.


----------



## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

How about a slightly used Porsche cayman ?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif.../page/3/radius/1500/postcode/ng13qa?logcode=p


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

If you're looking at the Golf, pop in and see the Focus ST too.

They offer good value for money. 

The Astra VXR is a good car too, but you do need to get a huge discount on list. I've seen pre-reg cars for £21k so you don't want to take the initial hit.


----------



## eddie bullit (Nov 23, 2007)

VXR looks amazing imo..ST is nice as well


----------



## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

haha the m135i would be my choice at 20, the golf gti would be my choice at 20 looking back 11 years now that I'am 31 and think that a car is just a car and that looking back at how much I spent on all my fast (ish) cars when I was that age I cringe big time.

Get the BMW you know you want to before you get old and boring.

just to add I do like the Golf GTI to but the bmw looks ace.


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## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Is the 135i available with X drive? and in a coupe version ?


----------



## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

Shaun said:


> Is the 135i available with X drive? and in a coupe version ?


are you insane!!! this post is now going to go so off topic its going to have its own forum, website, and mods lol


----------



## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> are you insane!!! this post is now going to go so off topic its going to have its own forum, website, and mods lol


At least its about the original topic LOL


----------



## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

Shaun said:


> At least about the original topic LOL


It's going to have millions of pages of tosh about which is better the bmw xdrive or the quattro systems.

just to add no car understeers if you drive it properly  (thought I may as well start off whats going to happen) :wave::thumb:


----------



## 182_Blue (Oct 25, 2005)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> It's going to have millions of pages of tosh about which is better the bmw xdrive or the quattro systems.
> 
> just to add no car understeers if you drive it properly  (thought I may as well start off whats going to happen) :wave::thumb:


I dont want it to go that way obviously, it is a serious question though if anyone knows, i am on my phone at the moment so cant work the BMW site to see ?


----------



## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

Shaun said:


> I dont want it to go that way obviously, it is a serious question though if anyone knows, i am on my phone at the moment so cant work the BMW site to see ?


I'am sure it won't come in X-drive and would prob stay in the same shape.


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Shaun said:


> Is the 135i available with X drive? and in a coupe version ?


X Dirve on 1 series coming soon , and new Coupe M235i next year, i have driven a few X Drive New 3 series as i had it on the list but as it drives fronts from back completely opposite system to Audi Front to rear. the problem with BMW X Drive 3 series it rides 20 mm higher and has no sports suspension and in performance car not good. it is to do with the angle of the drive shafts at front that causes the problem.
The most of the New 3 Series X drive owners came from Audi, and X3 drivers wanting a change and some that don,t care about how a car grips.
What did i think of X Drive was great grip in poor weather but a bit less fun and more weight makes turn in heavier, and neither under steer
I think the lower MPG more weight and less fun swung it for the RWD
or oversteer , this is funny when driving a BMW for me.
The thing is snow 3 times a year and a set of winters will get me places a AWD with standard tyres won't dream off, and it's the cars in front stuck or can't drive you have to worry about getting past


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> I'am sure it won't come in X-drive and would prob stay in the same shape.


The new 335d is only coming in X Drive until they deiced if will do RWD , alot of customers holding out for this, over on F30 forum, S4 customers are going across to this and 330d X Drive


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

How about one of these

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=859998

Or one of these

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=707755


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## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

There is already a 120D X-drive and I think the M135i X-drive is available in europe. 0-62 in 4.7


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

alexjb said:


> There is already a 120D X-drive and I think the M135i X-drive is available in europe. 0-62 in 4.7


? Not seen any in uk yet? i thought just on site to order as i always like trying a test drive of new cars, setting one up soon for A45 AMG:doublesho


----------



## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

Derekh929 said:


> ? Not seen any in uk yet? i thought just on site to order as i always like trying a test drive of new cars, setting one up soon for A45 AMG:doublesho


Yes, I suppose I didn't think of that. I'm pretty sure I've seen a 320d X-drive though. Oh wow! My budget won't stretch that far but I'm testing an A250 tomorrow


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

alexjb said:


> Yes, I suppose I didn't think of that. I'm pretty sure I've seen a 320d X-drive though. Oh wow! My budget won't stretch that far but I'm testing an A250 tomorrow


Yes plenty of 3 series out there know with X drive 320i popular but lacks grunt imho, 320d and 330d been popular as well new market for BMW as was losing out heavely to Audi in this area up to know imho


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## alexjb (Feb 13, 2011)

Derekh929 said:


> Yes plenty of 3 series out there know with X drive 320i popular but lacks grunt imho, 320d and 330d been popular as well new market for BMW as was losing out heavely to Audi in this area up to know imho


This is true. I wonder how many people will be making the change?!


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

alexjb said:


> This is true. I wonder how many people will be making the change?!


Just pop over to the uk section of F30 posts it's a great site, and some very helpful members some on here as well, plenty heading from Audi to X Drive on a daily basis, but i have not been on the Audi site to see if any going from BM to Audi tbo


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Derekh929 said:


> ? Not seen any in uk yet? i thought just on site to order as i always like trying a test drive of new cars, setting one up soon for A45 AMG:doublesho


Tasty hatchback the A45 AMG loads of mapping potential, 355 out the box and 0-62 in 4.6 sec is impressive too:thumb:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

DJ X-Ray said:


> Tasty hatchback the A45 AMG loads of mapping potential, 355 out the box and 0-62 in 4.6 sec is impressive too:thumb:


Yes sounds good, seen it up the track at Goodwood and then we was up the hill with one of the Silvers arrows drivers in the A250 was very quick and handled great


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Seen a couple of 330d xdrive tourings this week, must be due for snow soon!


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