# Supermarket fuel



## turboyamaha (Nov 18, 2010)

Is there any real difference between supermarket fuel and the big main fuel suppliers!
I am putting some BG244 fuel additive in my diesel car and want to know if it matters where I buy the fuel from?
Thanks


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## HornetSting (May 26, 2010)

The best fuel you can buy is Shell, very good quality. The V Power has very good cleaning and lubricating properties not to mention the performance it can give on the right vehicle. I know a Shell chemist and he was telling me all about it, he did say however that Shell provide fuel to a lot of stations, supermarkets and even other branded stations, so not sure how you know which one you are getting. If you want my opinion I wouldnt bother adding a fuel additive, save your money and buy the decent fuel in the first place.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

turboyamaha said:


> Is there any real difference between supermarket fuel and the big main fuel suppliers!
> I am putting some BG244 fuel additive in my diesel car and want to know if it matters where I buy the fuel from?
> Thanks


From what I have read on the internet... from extensive research/drawing together many sources, although no actual proof:

Primarily, fuel is refined in a few central locations in the UK by the major players you'd expect. BP, Esso, Shell. These generally form part of groups, so Texaco stations might be part of Esso etc.

What the companies do however to aid efficiency is have local distribution agreements, so if only BP have a big refinary in a certain part of the South East. They'd supply "base fuel product", either for 95ron (whatever the BS number is), or 97ron Super (whatever the BS no. is) to *any* of the stations in the surrounding area as specified by the agreement. The tankers are essentially 3rd party constracted a lot of the time, and any logos are basically "paid adverts". This means that most of the base fuel in an area would all be the same. This includes Tesco, Sainsbury's etc.

What can differ are the additive packages each "brand" or establishment puts in their fuel (I've heard this is done by drivers at the time of filling from the base fuel store, as per instructions on their job sheets). So, Shell might put different additive packages for cleaning or friction reducing in that Esso... some may also put more or less in that others. But the base product and the end product will conform to the relevant standards for 95ron and 97ron fuel.

Exceptions to this are Tesco's 99 produced by Greenergy, a propietary Ethanol blend (although all fuels can have up to 5% apparently). Also, Shell's V-power 99 is apparently distributed exclusively on their network, and travels from one point.

What isn't guaranteed is how well each establishment looks after their tanks/pumps, and how effective their additives packages are. The quality could also vary stations of any one marque (say Shell, or Esso), as many are franchises, and some stations are used more than others. I've heard you're better off buying from a frequently used station. But not just after the tanker has been in a stirred all the tanks up.

I present none of the above as gospel, just what seemed reasonable to me. I buy Petrol from Shell (V-power, primarily for the "cleaning properties" they advertise) and Esso primarily. Sometimes I get some Tesco 99... this is definitely different to the others in terms of characteristics. There's a lot of talk that it's subjective. I think the main thing is give a car what the ECU has gotten used to.

Also, fuel is supplied with different vaporisation characteristics based on the time of year... so there is "winter fuel" and spring/Summer etc. All very interesting... and I'd love to get a professionals full overview! :thumb:


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## turboyamaha (Nov 18, 2010)

Interesting about shell supplying other distributers!Can all cars take the super or ultimate fuels or is it just certain cars??


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

turboyamaha said:


> Interesting about shell supplying other distributers!Can all cars take the super or ultimate fuels or is it just certain cars??


Yeah, they might share their base product, but not what makes it "Shell"/"Esso" or whatever, if that makes sense.

All cars can take super or "regular". It'll be specified in your handbook what the preference or requirements are. Japan has 98-100RON fuel (Relative Octane Number - basically the 100 being equivalent to 100% octane in terms of anti-knock characterics in one of set of tests, there is also MON). So, many Jap cars specify 98 and above (interesting that UK super need only be 97!)

Most UK cars are specified for 95RON (uk standard unleaded), certain more performance oriented (especially forced induction/high ignition pressure) cars will specify (98+), they'll still run on 95 but the ignition will be pulled back to avoid knock in the engine, and boost might run lower - thus lowering BHP/Torque output. This is controlled by the ECU's and knock sensors, which detect unsavory ignition characteristics.

I use shell super as above, as it's supposed to have cleaners in. There is a thought though that if you put it in a really carbon caked car, it might manifest problems by loosening some of the muck that's actually keeping pistons bedded nicely etc.

It's also interesting looking at how they messed around with aviation fuel during the 2nd world war etc. They had things like 140RON stuff for some of the planes. Obviously, one silly man discovered that Tetra-ethyl lead added to fuel improved the knock characteristics allowing you to raise compression ratios... this man invented leaded fuel, and led to a massive expansion in the amount of lead in the atmosphere. Berk.

Diesel I'm not so hot on, although people "big-up" BP's super deisel offering.


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## turboyamaha (Nov 18, 2010)

I had a friend who had a 1990 astra gte 16v who put in super unleaded and his idiling was awful. It was in and out of vauxhall so many times as the car was new (1990). They eventually found that he should not have been running on super but standard unleaded and this cured the problem. Just didn't know if this would still occur now. I have a 2005 avensis and 09 focus both diesel!


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

turboyamaha said:


> I had a friend who had a 1990 astra gte 16v who put in super unleaded and his idiling was awful. It was in and out of vauxhall so many times as the car was new (1990). They eventually found that he should not have been running on super but standard unleaded and this cured the problem. Just didn't know if this would still occur now. I have a 2005 avensis and 09 focus both diesel!


Interesting one. This was just as unleaded cars (and conversions!) were coming out and 4**** was still around. I don't know if they were as adaptable then?


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## turboyamaha (Nov 18, 2010)

Not sure either but just stuck in my mind! need to have a look in my handbooks I think. Will it say you can run on one or both or just the ron no.?


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## minimadgriff (Jul 8, 2007)

Tesco Momentum 99 or Shell V-power, the only genuine 99 Ron fuels avaliable. 

A car needs to do a couple of tanks worth of high octance fuel before your car fully adjusts to it and see's the full benefit. 

Chris at work swears blind his car is better on Shell deisel than any other brand, said at least 50miles more from a tank.


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

Interesting this, i've always gone for main brands because i "Heard" that basically supermarkets like morrisons buy the "rubbish" shall we say off the big supplyers, mix it all together and away you go.

Although as said, that could just be hearsay.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

davies20 said:


> Interesting this, i've always gone for main brands because i "Heard" that basically supermarkets like morrisons buy the "rubbish" shall we say off the big supplyers, mix it all together and away you go.
> 
> Although as said, that could just be hearsay.


Yeah, I'd heard that. Maybe they still do get the dregs, but by same supply. I think obviously there are reputations to be protected and general BS standard no's standards to be met.. therefore my conclusion was their it more likely their proprietary additives that are lacking.


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

I was once told that Morrisons Deisel is not very good and that it comes to the UK via Tanker from other countrys which dont produce very good quality fuel. I was also told that recently that Morrisons Deisel has only just scraped through the EU spec and reports of blocking filters from Fourcourts and motorists are quite high. I have tried there fuel in the past and didnt like it as I did notice more exhaust smoke from the deisel and the Unleaded had no power in it and the car felt sluggish compared to Shell standard Unleaded. I am now a strict Shell user but if I am in a area where there is no Shell I will drop a small amount of another top brand in the tank. I also always try to use the same garage and that way I get to know when V Power days are coming up and if I do have a issue where the fuel is at fault I know where to point the finger but with Shell its very unlikely to happen. I used to use nothing but V Power Deisel but the cost at the moment is just to high so I use Shell standard Deisel instead unless there is a V Power day.


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

Interesting topic and I'm not sure what to think, there is a depot not far from my work place and I see lots of different fuel tankers going in and out and I've often wondered if they are all filling up with the same fuels or do they really have a different type for each company or reseller ?


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## Richard_nitro (Oct 21, 2010)

I always bought V power when it was "cheap" now always use shell normal although maybe my imagination thought it lasted longer with shell than compared to asda


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

I notice that Shell lasts far longer than Morrisons and seems to have a higher Octane / Cetane as there is more power to


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## timbo4321 (Aug 23, 2009)

I tried Shell V-Power and Tesco 99 octane a while back and found I did better mpg but the extra cost to mpg was the same as running ordinary petrol and getting a lower mpg. Higher octane gave me better idling and feels a little more powerful. 

What I do find consistent is that whenever I've had to use Texaco from any where in the country the car runs rubbish and consume fuel much more quickly.


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## timbo4321 (Aug 23, 2009)

BTW the car runs happily on Asda - also generally the cheapest around here.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

turboyamaha said:


> Is there any real difference between supermarket fuel and the big main fuel suppliers!


Yes there is categorically a difference, Shell fuel has their own addittives package dosed in at the gantry, it contains lubricants and detergents henc the reason most cars run better on deent shell fuel. Morrisons fule won't go anywhere near my car, their fuel, as mentioned in this thread already barely passses the bare minimum standard that all fuel on sale must _meet_ Shell fuel well exceeds the standard.


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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

minimadgriff said:


> Tesco Momentum 99 or Shell V-power, the only genuine 99 Ron fuels avaliable.
> 
> A car needs to do a couple of tanks worth of high octance fuel before your car fully adjusts to it and see's the full benefit.
> 
> Chris at work swears blind his car is better on Shell deisel than any other brand, said at least 50miles more from a tank.


Normally I'd agree with that - and most of the time use V-Power Diesel... but I've got a problem with a sticky turbo, and my car going into limp mode uphill. Tried BP Ultimate on my last fillup, and my problem is reduced (not gone) and the engine is quieter/smoother as well - just as much power.

If only BP was a reasonable price!

It's worth trying all the fuels in your area - I've got Texaco, BP, Shell and supermarkets around me, and it seems my car likes the expensive BP stuff more than anything - on supermarket fuel it sounds like a tractor. Better with Shell, best with BP.

But then again, I do need a new Turbo...


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

I've never had a problem with Sainsbury’s diesel but after reading this I think I'll be trying a tank of Shell or BP when it comes to filling up just to see if it makes any noticeable difference ?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

^^ you need to do a couple of tanks really to see any difference


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

I go to Tesco due to me clubcard points.

Had £40 last time. Free money but means I need to buy their fuel.


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

Also i'll add. This may be a thing around near me only because i live in the rainy High Peak!

But i've heard alot of cases of water in the fuel from supermarkets - which was the nail in the coffin for me!

The Mrs however still insists on filling her car up at morrisons which drives me up the wall!


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

bigmc said:


> ^^ you need to do a couple of tanks really to see any difference


Thanks, if I run a few tanks through it the cost won't be that much higher. I'll check on the prices when I'm out tonight ?



davies20 said:


> The Mrs however still insists on filling her car up at morrisons which drives me up the wall!


Perhaps you could show her a few of the internet threads and debates that detail the alledged problems related to Morrisons fuel ?


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## davies20 (Feb 22, 2009)

uruk hai said:


> Thanks, if I run a few tanks through it the cost won't be that much higher. I'll check on the prices when I'm out tonight ?
> 
> *Perhaps you could show her a few of the internet threads and debates that detail the alledged problems related to Morrisons fuel *?


Cheapness! It saves money, as far as she's concerned her car runs fine on it so why stop! lol


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I think it's all BS...

I have used Sainsbury's fuel for years now (nearly a decade), and never had any issues in both my cars and bikes...

Not even worth my while trying to find a Shell for their fuel....no garage near me! 

:lol:

:thumb:


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## TheGooner84 (Jun 29, 2010)

used morrisions twice a while back, im talking probably 5 or 6 years if not longer ago, when they kept giving money off. had a couple of 5p off a litre. the civic bogged right down, had now power and sounded like a bag of spanners. never been back since. it took around 3 full tanks of optimax and alot of booting to get it running back to normal.

im sure morrisions also removed the BS mark from their pumps for a while.


as for can the cars run on super. if your handbook says to use 95ron then use it as there is no benifit, in petrol, to be found by using the 98-99 ron.
if it says 98-99 ron then use it, 50 ltr tank works out at around £3.50 more a tankfull, you can use 95 but as said the ECU will retard the timing to prevent knocking.

i did do some testing when i 1st got the bora, ran it on normal shell for a few weeks took some readings through the diagnostic port. then ran on v power for a few weeks until i found a day with roughly the same ambiant temp and took some more.
on average i gained 8bhp and 10ftlb by using the v power. and also seems to last slightly longer 

diesels a different matter and a higher cetaine (sp) rating means that it should produce better results.

i only use shell, bp or tescos when the other 2 are unavailable


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

TheGooner84 said:


> as for can the cars run on super. if your handbook says to use 95ron then use it as there is no benifit, in petrol, to be found by using the 98-99 ron.
> if it says 98-99 ron then use it, 50 ltr tank works out at around £3.50 more a tankfull, you can use 95 but as said the ECU will retard the timing to prevent knocking.
> 
> i did do some testing when i 1st got the bora, ran it on normal shell for a few weeks took some readings through the diagnostic port. then ran on v power for a few weeks until i found a day with roughly the same ambiant temp and took some more.
> ...


Pretty much spot on! Although, to add confusion to it, Ford specify "*Min* 95 ron" only, and then say "in partnership with BP, BP super unleaded may increase performance/mpg etc. Quite a statement considering they don't specify 97 and above should be used. So I do wonder if it does help. I know my car has continuously variable timing on exhaust and intake... I guess its taking readings from somewhere to collate it's course of action and ideal timing, so I try and give it the best possible to help it along.


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## MattOz (May 15, 2007)

It's definitely a debate worth having and I don't believe that there is a right or wrong "brand" of fuel. I've always used what my car prefers. 

My M3 and M5 liked the local Sainsburys Super unleaded. V-Power and BP Ultimate made absolutely no difference. My 330cd smokes on Sainsburys diesel, yet on normal Shell diesel it's significantly less smoky and I get 50-60 miles more from a tank. 

I always use Shell diesel in my derv drinkers, but happy to use Sainsburys SUL in my petrol cars and my bike. 

Matt


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

Diesel apparently is a little different to petrol simply on the basis that it's literally a much more basic fuel (think how a diesel engine will run on chip fat etc.).

I would be wary of the supermarket stuff, not because it's made from "bad" fuel but simply because the additives will differ from those that the likes of Shell use.

One thing that people also forget about is the type of journeys that you do. The cleaning additives will have a much greater effect in an engine that only does short journeys than they will in an engine that does longer journeys and always gets up to temperature and so on.


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

hutchingsp said:


> One thing that people also forget about is the type of journeys that you do. The cleaning additives will have a much greater effect in an engine that only does short journeys than they will in an engine that does longer journeys and always gets up to temperature and so on.


I think that's a very valid point there mate, I know some say only have a diesel if you do the miles but I think the length of the journey can be just as relevant !


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

TBH, I'd ever only use supermarket fuel at a last resort.

I had the misfortune of having to put a tankful of diesel into the Merc once, it ran awful, and was glad to get rid of it (the tankful of fuel, not the Merc..)

Funny thing is, Esso near me is cheaper than Tesco, but peeps still queue up to use Tesco fuel...

For me, its either Shell or Esso.


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

uruk hai said:


> I think that's a very valid point there mate, I know some say only have a diesel if you do the miles but I think the length of the journey can be just as relevant !


It's especially relevant with a diesel as apparently the short trips where the engine never actually gets up to temperature is where fuel can gum up and form deposits on the internals of the engine and there's never enough heat to stop it from doing so (should add I'm not a mechanic in the slightest but know people who know a *lot* about this stuff).


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## PaulTheo (Sep 26, 2010)

And who said advertising did not work?


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## johnnyguitar (Mar 24, 2010)

I've also never had a problem with Sainsburys diesel from a VERY busy petrol station.

However



minimadgriff said:


> Tesco Momentum 99 or Shell V-power, the only genuine 99 Ron fuels avaliable.
> 
> A car needs to do a couple of tanks worth of high octance fuel before your car fully adjusts to it and see's the full benefit.
> 
> Chris at work swears blind his car is better on Shell deisel than any other brand, said at least 50miles more from a tank.


My dad says the same. Actually 95 unleaded but still says a tank goes further than any other brand. Apparently he notices a difference when using Optimax one in four tanks. Car has done 198k miles, probably mostly on Shell fuel and is still running well.


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## turboyamaha (Nov 18, 2010)

Thanks for all your replies guys! It is as clear as mud now!(only Joking). Does make me think that I will probably only use supermarket fuel if i have to. Looks like shell is the best option for my diesel then!! (thank god I have not got a morrisons station where I live, going by your reponses)!


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## Osarkon (Feb 20, 2011)

As much as i'm inclined to believe it's all nonsense, I do notice a big difference in range when I fill with tesco diesel as opposed to Sainsbury's. I get another 50 miles with tesco diesel, for no apparent reason (i.e. same road, same driving).


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## Reggie-Z4 (Mar 7, 2011)

Tesco 99 comes out well. This is my current choice......

http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/tuning/Fuel_Test_Results_Update.shtml


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## turboyamaha (Nov 18, 2010)

^^that was an interesting read just curious to know if diesel would be similar or not!!


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## minimadgriff (Jul 8, 2007)

Momentum 99 will have a newer better test coming out soon, we are also going to be carrying out tests for them :thumb:


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Very interesting thread.

I've noticed big differences over the years with fuels. For example, our three year old Xsara Picasso with 24k on the clock failed its first MOT due to clogged injectors (Asda diesel its whole life). I've run all of our cars since then almost exclusively on Shell.

One thing I did notice a few months ago when SWMBO filled up at Morrisons was that the diesel felt rough, loud, less eager and white-smoked a bit on start up. Went back to shell and it was fine.

The Cougar's a bit of a different story with shell as I've noticed it gets slightly more MPG out of using Esso/BP fuel. I'm not sure if it's the newer "fuel save" additives not agreeing with a mid 90's designed engine, but there's a definite difference there - It doesn't feel any different, just better MPG...


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## Alsone (May 19, 2010)

I always use Morrisons Unleaded.

I have a Honda Civic 1.8GT and have seen posts on Honda forums suggesting that it runs best on high octane petrol so tried a tank of Esso (99 Ron - I think it was).

I could tell no difference at all.

The economy meter showed slightly more mpg - around 0.5 -1 mpg gain but given the cost, there's no way it was better than normal unleaded. Performance wise there was no noticeable difference.


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## DesertDog (May 15, 2011)

I don't see any difference at all in fuel economy between using 95 or 98 grade fuel.

What does make a difference is when I'm making a 250km round trip between Abu Dhabi and Dubai, when I'm on cruise control most of the trip, or whether I run in normal, or sport mode.

Car is an XC60 T6 btw

95 grade is equivalent of £0.295/litre and 98 is 0.314/litre, so I don't mind getting a little heavy with the loud pedal :driver:


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## jayin (Mar 24, 2011)

A friend of mine worked for Exon mobile if my memory serves me, who mentioned that they supply the same petrol to Sainsbury’s as they do Shell. Hence if I can’t get to Shell I’ll go to Sainsbury’s. 

Another friend in the Motorsport industry advised me to stick to Shell or BP due to the detergents that are added. He went on to add if you do fill up with supermarket fuel, use Shell/BP for every 1 in 4 fill ups


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## TheGooner84 (Jun 29, 2010)

DesertDog said:


> 95 grade is equivalent of £0.295/litre and 98 is 0.314/litre, so I don't mind getting a little heavy with the loud pedal :driver:


gotta love the rubbing the prices in :thumb: :car:


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

minimadgriff said:


> Momentum 99 will have a newer better test coming out soon, we are also going to be carrying out tests for them :thumb:


Be interested to see the results of this. I know they tested against optimax... have they done so against V-Power now? If I'm honest, These two are the two fuels I notice the biggest difference between in my car.

Momentum seems to rev freer, but doesn't quite have the same top end power as shells offering... if that makes sense?

It's hard to describe... but I'd say I'm pretty well connected with my car - and although the differences aren't massive as it's not a big engine nor forced induction, it is light thus every little helps! I can certainly tell the difference with changes in tire pressure, fuel tank level, how windy it is outside... hot vs cold air, etc. I'm sure I can pick up a difference here too... not so much speed, as a windy day seems to make more of a difference, but in engine/rev character.

MPG also drops with Momentum, and the rise in instant MPG readout on lift off is tardier... I'd always considered it the ethanol content.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

DesertDog said:


> 95 grade is equivalent of *£0.295/litre* and 98 is *0.314/litre*, so I don't mind getting a little heavy with the loud pedal :driver:


Welcome to my ignore list buddy....you lucky f    

:lol::lol::lol:

:thumb:


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Don't get me started on the price of the damn stuff! I swear (I'm 26 now) by the time I pop off this old planet they'll have taxed oxygen and I'll be paying a fivers sewage tax every time I need to take a dump. :wall::wall:

EDIT: this AA report makes very intersting reading... at least we're not the only idiots:

http://www.theaa.com/onlinenews/allaboutcars/fuel/2011/may2011.pdf

They've got 10 years worth archived on there... It was 76p per litre when I started University.

Also interesting that the percentage taken in tax has dropped considerably from about 75% in 2003 to 59% now. Surprised me a bit.

The govt. also takes less in tax from a Superunleaded product... that's one way to think about it :thumb:


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## turboyamaha (Nov 18, 2010)

They may take less but they still take a hell of a lot!!


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Dont have an issue using supermarket fuel aslong as i use millers with the car or van (just in case lol)


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

sorry guys to step in this thread, what about something for diesel cars then, what would you recommend, i apologise in advance for stepping in like this, i know this is a petrol thread.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Trip tdi said:


> sorry guys to step in this thread, what about something for diesel cars then, what would you recommend, i apologise in advance for stepping in like this, i know this is a petrol thread.


No worries fella, to be honest, I think it started from Diesel, then we've probably just chipped in with our own experiences (which is mainly petrol for me).

I'd imagine any of Esso/Shell/BP Diesel to be fine. BP and Shells "super" offerings in terms of diesel I've heard the best things about... I'd try a few and see if you think its worth it.


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## Dixondmn (Oct 12, 2007)

Grizzle said:


> Dont have an issue using supermarket fuel aslong as i use millers with the car or van (just in case lol)


Millers Diesel sport 4 or what ever its call is awesome stuff, i used to use it when I ran an oil burner


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

Supermarkets used to have oil companies deliver there fuel now they use there own trucks and just buy it from them. If you google abit you might find some supermarkets have big shares in some oil companies


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

All my cars have had supermarket petrol.My new car gets Asda diesel.A friend of mine ****s himself over Shell optimax or whatever its called.He says "I never put cheap petrol in the VR" (a rusty hatchback with a silly engine)
I cant see the point in putting expensive fuel in,normal fuel costs enough as it is.


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## ae1whia (Jan 10, 2011)

This all depends where you live in the UK, as an earlier poster said. Shell v power and BP ultimate are blended from GTL ( gas to liquid ) and if you have a search on Wiki this will explain it better than I can. There was a thread on Babybmw forum which gives a lot of good info if you run an oil burner.
I live in scotland and most fuels comes from Grangemouth, if you are way down south most supermarket fuel comes from distributors which i would not buy as it is all transported in the same pipeline.....


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## Franzpan (Mar 2, 2009)

Not got a shell garage local to me but I find my little diesel 307 runs far smoother on BP ultimate diesel over any regular diesel. I find, using regular diesel that when I start the car from cold, the engine shakes a fair bit, you can even feel it when you are sitting in the car. After running through half a tank of ultimate diesel the shaking almost stops completely and the engine runs much more smoothly. Ive had the odd fill up of regular diesel here and there and sure enough the engine runs more coarsely after about half a tank.
For me an extra 5p per litre is well worth it.

Do shell do a Vpower diesel?


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

Franzpan said:


> Do shell do a Vpower diesel?


Yes, certainly in my local station :thumb:


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

McClane said:


> No worries fella, to be honest, I think it started from Diesel, then we've probably just chipped in with our own experiences (which is mainly petrol for me).
> 
> I'd imagine any of Esso/Shell/BP Diesel to be fine. BP and Shells "super" offerings in terms of diesel I've heard the best things about... I'd try a few and see if you think its worth it.


Thanks mate, i appreciate that, just did not want to spoil the thread for others on here.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

dixon75 said:


> Millers Diesel sport 4 or what ever its call is awesome stuff, i used to use it when I ran an oil burner


Yeah i know the stuff, ecopower its called now, diesel version, tryed it, but not work on mine, mpg not increased or smoothness or power.

Was quite disappointed, to say the least.

But thanks anyway for pointing out the product.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Franzpan said:


> Not got a shell garage local to me but I find my little diesel 307 runs far smoother on BP ultimate diesel over any regular diesel. I find, using regular diesel that when I start the car from cold, the engine shakes a fair bit, you can even feel it when you are sitting in the car. After running through half a tank of ultimate diesel the shaking almost stops completely and the engine runs much more smoothly. Ive had the odd fill up of regular diesel here and there and sure enough the engine runs more coarsely after about half a tank.
> For me an extra 5p per litre is well worth it.
> 
> Do shell do a Vpower diesel?


Shell do a v power diesel version, only a few selected branches have them.

I've tryed bp diesel, the ultimate, plus total excullium, these fuels make no difference on my car, seriously, i;m not to sure of they are gimmicks, no offense on this post, thought i would honest from my point of view and findings on my car.


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## wayne_w (Jan 25, 2007)

Fuel in the Midlands area & maybe a little further comes from either Stanlow in Merseyside or Coryton in the South East...
It is true that it is all in the same pipeline, including aviation fuel, which is very stringently quality controlled.
The 'main' players all have a say in the use of the pipeline (UKOP) which has been in place since the early 60's.
While the fuel is underground, it could be anyone's, once it has been delivered to the receipt terminals it then becomes a branded product, even though the oil company's do each other favours, now & again.
The receipt terminals will also mix their own additive into the fuel for it to become BP Ultimate, Shell V Max etc etc.
This is where the supermarkets obtain their fuel from also, I think that Sainsbury's & Asda use BP / Shell.
Tesco & Morrisons use Total or Texaco...

HTH
Wayne :thumb:


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## father ted (May 4, 2011)

wayne_w said:


> Fuel in the Midlands area & maybe a little further comes from either Stanlow in Merseyside or Coryton in the South East...
> It is true that it is all in the same pipeline, including aviation fuel, which is very stringently quality controlled.
> The 'main' players all have a say in the use of the pipeline (UKOP) which has been in place since the early 60's.
> While the fuel is underground, it could be anyone's, once it has been delivered to the receipt terminals it then becomes a branded product, even though the oil company's do each other favours, now & again.
> ...


i work in the refinery that produces it ,its all the same just differnt additives and the tankers come into our bit from everyone ,tesco sainsbury you name them........... i fill them ,the bit where wayne w explains about the pipeline its called the triangle it runs from us down one caost along to the other coast and back up whether its aviation fuel or diesel ,did you know there is no vat on avation fuel?ooo and BP doesnt have any refinery in the UK they sold them all to us ,http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/feb/01/oilandpetrol.news


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

father ted said:


> i work in the refinery that produces it ,its all the same just differnt additives and the tankers come into our bit from everyone ,tesco sainsbury you name them........... i fill them ,the bit where wayne w explains about the pipeline its called the triangle it runs from us down one caost along to the other coast and back up whether its aviation fuel or diesel ,did you know there is no vat on avation fuel?ooo and BP doesnt have any refinery in the UK they sold them all to us ,http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/feb/01/oilandpetrol.news


Whats the best diesel on market then, don't mind me asking, are they all the same or do they contain different amount of additives in them.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Trip tdi said:


> Whats the best diesel on market then, don't mind me asking, are they all the same or do they contain different amount of additives in them.


Would love to know.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Shell


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

bigmc said:


> Shell


Donlt know why shell have switched from shell diesel extra to fuel save diesel, on the pump they say regular diesel.


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## father ted (May 4, 2011)

again it all depends on the additives each company add .it comes in different grades but that becasue of the sulphur eg low sulphur diesel ,(lsd)ultra low sulphur diesel (ulsd) but again diesel is diesel the best ones are bp, shell, esso but believe it or not the really good one is from ...........tesco its about additives and they add more and better ones than anyone else


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## turboyamaha (Nov 18, 2010)

Have always used tesco with no probs!!


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

father ted said:


> again it all depends on the additives each company add .it comes in different grades but that becasue of the sulphur eg low sulphur diesel ,(lsd)ultra low sulphur diesel (ulsd) but again diesel is diesel the best ones are bp, shell, esso but believe it or not the really good one is from ...........tesco its about additives and they add more and better ones than anyone else


Do tesco do a more advanced diesel fuel then, such as v power one, would be interested to know.

I'm very interested, what degergents they have in them, plus cetane level.

Thankyou.


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## centenary (Sep 5, 2010)

turboyamaha said:


> Have always used tesco with no probs!!


Mainly Safeway until Morrisons took them over for me. The E46 has done 156,000 miles on supermarket diesel.

Its had the odd tank of extortionate BP Ultimate diesel and Shell diesel and imo, there's not an once of difference except the price.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

centenary said:


> Mainly Safeway until Morrisons took them over for me. The E46 has done 156,000 miles on supermarket diesel.
> 
> Its had the odd tank of extortionate BP Ultimate diesel and Shell diesel and imo, there's not an once of difference except the price.


Is that a diesel version you have, or a petrol version...


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## s2kpaul (Jul 27, 2006)

I havent found major difference in the brands but i have noticed if you look at the derv when pouring its varies in shades lol However ive found texaco to work best in term of my car.


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## Luke227 (Dec 22, 2010)

Car seems to perform really badly on fuel from Morrisons and ASDA, but seems fine on pretty much all others including Tescos. Not sure if this is just in the mind tho. Heard Shell was meant to be good for unleaded, but not sure how true any of it actually is.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

i notice texoco, gives decent performance on my car, but the texoco down my area is the highest price fuel going, hence i avoid it.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

would be more interested in your thoughts here guys, i know its a stupid question, best just eager to know.... the best of the best, plus additive on the shelf...


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## centenary (Sep 5, 2010)

Trip tdi said:


> Is that a diesel version you have, or a petrol version...


Diesel mate.


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## centenary (Sep 5, 2010)

Trip tdi said:


> would be more interested in your thoughts here guys, i know its a stupid question, best just eager to know.... the best of the best, plus additive on the shelf...


I really cannot see how some people say their car 'runs better' on such and such brand of fuel. All brands have to comply with standards and RON so every car should run the same.

The only reason I can see a car not running well on a brand of fuel is if there was something wrong with the tank at the petrol station the fuel came from.

For example, I normally use Morrison's diesel but one time I had to use the local texaco station for diesel. The car felt lumpy after filling up. I can only assume there were some contaminates in the station's tank but, I didnt bother using texaco again (the station has since changed hands and is a bP station).

I occasionally use a shell station as it is competitive on price (its actually 3 or 4 p a litre cheaper than another shell station less than 2 miles away!) but only use that if I need to top up on the way home.

As regards additives, have you tried this stuff? Make sure you select the petrol or diesel version though!

I've just put a tin in my wife's zaffie and am pleased with the results so far.


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## TheGooner84 (Jun 29, 2010)

centenary said:


> As regards additives, have you tried this stuff? Make sure you select the petrol or diesel version though!
> 
> I've just put a tin in my wife's zaffie and am pleased with the results so far.


have heard of good things about that and tempted to try it out myself, even with 60k hard miles im sure there will be some carbon build up.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

TheGooner84 said:


> have heard of good things about that and tempted to try it out myself, even with 60k hard miles im sure there will be some carbon build up.


I've never tryed bg44k, i have tryed redex diesel plus a shot of millers ecomax, is this stuff good then bg44k, just pour in a tank and off you go.

Would this stuff seriously clean the system out...


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## TheGooner84 (Jun 29, 2010)

a mate tried it out on his audi a4 2.0tfsi. the fsi engine as notoriously bad for carbon build up. dont know about the cleaning the carbon but he found a couple of mpg and better throttle response.
think its a case of pour in and drive gently for a while, rather than pour in and redline 

the millers shot for diesel lifts the cetane level and yet to hear anyone say anything against it


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## RobW (Jul 18, 2009)

I have done some tests on different fuels.

Morrisons / Tesco diesel - 46-47mpg at best
Esso / BP / Pace diesel - 51-52mpg
Shell - 53mpg.

Did a few tanks of each to get figures but have only done one 3/4 fill of Shell, need to use that more but the only station is a bit out of the way.

I will not use supermarket stuff now, pence per mile works out a lot more than buying the expensive stuff.

I do 360-370 miles per week for work, usually at a constant steady speed but occasionally have to 'make progress' if I have slept in slightly!

The Mrs always uses Morrison's petrol, she does a lot of short journeys so mpg is ruined anyway!


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

never tried tesco so could not say tbh, i know both C's do not get along with Sainsburys in the majority its like tap water. Always been shell here although tbh Stanlow is only 10 mins down the road :lol: mpg, not as smokey out the back only used one tank of vpower diesel so could not really say tbh


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## Multipla Mick (Feb 5, 2006)

Might as well add my experiences, which don't amount to much really  Only used supermarket diesel on a couple of occasions and both times I've felt a difference. In a car it wasn't too bad, it just just felt like a couple of bhp had gone missing or something. In the motorhome however (a Fiat Ducato 2 litre boasting a wimpy 88bhp), a diversion off the motorway into Sava Centre for fuel left it feeling like someone had let 20psi out of the tyres. It really knackered what had up to that point, been a sprightly canter along the M4. I seemed to be using much bigger throttle openings as well as I was having to push the thing along far more than previously. Couldn't wait to get rid of that tankful I can tell you.

I do think some vehicles benefit more from different fuels and additives as many people report no difference being made. Must be the way differing vehicles are set up or are more sophisticated or something. Or they could be people like my sister, who wouldn't notice if you removed a wheel while she wasn't looking let alone a subtle change in engine performance.


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## turboyamaha (Nov 18, 2010)

Rob w. strange you say that about the tesco fuel as It has been quite highly rated on this thread, even described as the best one for cleaners and lubes!! I reguarly use tesco fuel an it does not give me less mpg then main brand ones. Can I ask what ar you got these figures from(not that it makes a difference)


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## hoikey (Mar 9, 2011)

My swift sport needs to be run on super and i seem to get better mpg from tesco as well as it being cheaper and higher octane than shells ultimax equivalent, i also get clubcard points.


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## TheGooner84 (Jun 29, 2010)

hoikey said:


> My swift sport needs to be run on super and i seem to get better mpg from tesco as well as it being cheaper and higher octane than shells ultimax equivalent, i also get clubcard points.


cheaper only a 1p here, but they are both 99 octane. unsure about the vpower but the tescos octane is boosted by a higher ethonal %


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## evobaz (Aug 28, 2007)

Some nonsense being talked on here but some folk have the right idea.

Father Ted - Do you work for Ineos at the Tanker Terminal in Grangemouth?

I work for BP in Grangemouth and work nextdoor to the Ineos tanker loading terminal. All petrol and diesel in Scotland and the North of England comes from the Grangemouth Refinery (with the exception of Shell V Power which comes from a refinery down south) Some of the fuel is loaded onto tankers by Ineos at their tanker terminal (formerly BP) and the remainder is tranferred via pipeline from the refinery to a company called NuStar (formerly Ross Chemicals) and is loaded onto tankers at their loading terminal also in Grangemouth.

There are 2 massive tanks (and a scabby old pumphouse) within spitting distance of my plant and I used to share an office with the guys that operate them. All unleaded fuel which is loaded onto tankers by Ineos at their tanker terminal comes from these 2 tanks.

Lubricants and additives are then added while the tankers are being loaded. The additives and lubricants are added by a computer based on a predetermined recipe and the recipe will vary depending on whether the petrol is going to Morrisons /Shell / Jet /BP etc.



TheGooner84 said:


> if your handbook says to use *95ron then use it as there is no benifit, in petrol, to be found by using the 98-99 ron*.
> if it says 98-99 ron then use it, 50 ltr tank works out at around £3.50 more a tankfull, you can use 95 but as said the ECU will retard the timing to prevent knocking.


Not entirely true, if you run 97/98/99 ron (SUL) in a car mapped for 95 ron (UL) then you will have greater knock resistance and less chance of det.

My car has been mapped to run on Shell V Power so i use that all the time. However, the ECU i use has a map switching facility so I have a second map which will allow me to run any other super unleaded - handy if I get caught short and I'm not near a Shell station.

If I run the car on V-Power but with the switch in position for SUL then i will increase the cars knock resistance and reduce the chance of det.


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