# 1 step enhancements on hard vw/audi paint



## euge07 (Jan 15, 2011)

Machine polisher in question : Vertool Force Drive

if you were dealing with the usual swirls/RDS and were looking to go for a 1 step enhancment to remove majority of the swirls and boost gloss,
would you be more inclined to go for a green hexlogic pad or the orange hexlogic pads? 

my main polishes i use are sonax 04-06 or DK 1:1


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## GSVHammer (Feb 7, 2009)

I'd start with the green do a test area, see if it cuts enough and the you are happy with the finish. I'd probably do a second test area next to the first one with the orange pad and compare results.
Chemical guys rate thier green pad as heavy polishing, light cut and their orange as cutting pad. So I would presume the green will finish down better than the orange.
Why you asking are you planning to buy more pads?

I'll have a similar problem in a couple of weeks, just ordered some 3D HD Speed to do a 1 step on a VW T5 people carrier. I'll be using Lake Country FD pads on my Vertool FD. I have all the pads in their range. I'll have to wait until I see the vehicle but I don't think the white polishing pad will do much as the vehicle is 6 years old. I may have to start with the orange pad. I have the grey and wool for extra cut if needed but I don't want to use the wool with an AIO product. So I may have to go down a 2 step route.


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## v_r_s (Nov 4, 2018)

I have the hex pads orange, white and black I wouldn't have thought orange would be great for a one step as I purchased mine for the heavy cut and white for the med cut with s17plus. If I was doing a one step on Skoda paints I'd be trying white. Let us know how it goes.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

euge07 said:


> Machine polisher in question : Vertool Force Drive
> 
> if you were dealing with the usual swirls/RDS and were looking to go for a 1 step enhancment to remove majority of the swirls and boost gloss,
> would you be more inclined to go for a green hexlogic pad or the orange hexlogic pads?
> ...


Me personally I would opt for the green pad and DK1.1 :thumb: 
DK has the ability to finish really good and finish LSP ready.

TBH my favourite 1 step (ENHANCEMENT) is KochChemie F5-01 with either the green quantum pad or Carpro orange polishing pad:thumb: works on any paint that I have come across


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## 66Rob (Sep 25, 2007)

I used my trusty Porter Cable, Hex Orange pad, Meguiars Yellow Pad and ROAR Swirl Remover at the weekend on 2008 Condor Grey TT. It made a huge improvement in gloss and probably removed 60% of all the light scratches. Most noticeable was the increase in gloss.


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## Jasonjo (Jan 2, 2019)

I recently used Sonax Perfect Finish with a HexLogic green pad on my '17 330D applied via DAS 6Pro...pleased with the result; some examples 




























Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## euge07 (Jan 15, 2011)

chongo said:


> Me personally I would opt for the green pad and DK1.1 :thumb:
> DK has the ability to finish really good and finish LSP ready.
> 
> TBH my favourite 1 step (ENHANCEMENT) is KochChemie F5-01 with either the green quantum pad or Carpro orange polishing pad:thumb: works on any paint that I have come across


when using dk on hexlogic pads how many passes would you do? 
Must check out the KC F5-01 ( I use their heavy cut and like it) Will also look at carpro pads:buffer:


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

If the choice has to be between green and orange, I would go with orange. Green is a truly hideous pad I just don't understand its creation. Orange both cuts AND finishes better


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## euge07 (Jan 15, 2011)

stangalang said:


> If the choice has to be between green and orange, I would go with orange. Green is a truly hideous pad I just don't understand its creation. Orange both cuts AND finishes better


green is fine for softer paint, but for the majority of german cars that has hard paint it is just ok for swirl removal, it does a good job of cleaning paint up and boosting gloss but it hasnt enough cut in it

What polish do you like to use with an orange hex pad for hard german paint?

reason I like the hexlogic pads is I use a force drive polisher and dont like microfribre on them


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## GSVHammer (Feb 7, 2009)

Euge07 have you looked at the Lake Country Hybrid Force Pads? In2detailing sell them, as well as the wool pads.

They seem to be colour coded similar to the Hex pads apart from their heavy cutting pad is grey and not yellow.

I'll be trying the orange with HD Speed shortly as a 1 step enhancement.


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

euge07 said:


> green is fine for softer paint, but for the majority of german cars that has hard paint it is just ok for swirl removal, it does a good job of cleaning paint up and boosting gloss but it hasnt enough cut in it
> 
> What polish do you like to use with an orange hex pad for hard german paint?
> 
> reason I like the hexlogic pads is I use a force drive polisher and dont like microfribre on them


No microfibre doesn't suit the 3401, totally agreed. 
I personally think green is rubbish, soft, hard, medium, whatever. It hazes more than orange and carries less cut. Would rather use white than green personally, but that is just personal preference

Liquid wise, if I "had to" one step hard paint then I would use the last cut, its VERY good on foam


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

stangalang said:


> No microfibre doesn't suit the 3401, totally agreed.
> I personally think green is rubbish, soft, hard, medium, whatever. It hazes more than orange and carries less cut. Would rather use white than green personally, but that is just personal preference
> 
> Liquid wise, if I "had to" one step hard paint then I would use the last cut, its VERY good on foam


Sorry Matt I have to completely disagree with what you say about the green pad.
I used it on Monday on a black Porsche with some serious swirls and light scratches and it made easy work of it:thumb: plus it finished perfectly.

I even used it last Saturday on my own car for a enhancement detail and my car has hard paint :thumb:
MF cutting pads on the flex VRG are also good, it's about pressure and speed when it comes to using them on the flex plus cleaning them often :thumb:


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

euge07 said:


> Machine polisher in question : Vertool Force Drive
> 
> if you were dealing with the usual swirls/RDS and were looking to go for a 1 step enhancment to remove majority of the swirls and boost gloss,
> would you be more inclined to go for a green hexlogic pad or the orange hexlogic pads?
> ...


If you want to see y results then checkout my instagram page:thumb:
mick_chong:thumb:


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

chongo said:


> Sorry Matt I have to completely disagree with what you say about the green pad.
> I used it on Monday on a black Porsche with some serious swirls and light scratches and it made easy work of it:thumb: plus it finished perfectly.
> 
> I even used it last Saturday on my own car for a enhancement detail and my car has hard paint :thumb:
> MF cutting pads on the flex VRG are also good, it's about pressure and speed when it comes to using them on the flex plus cleaning them often :thumb:


Thats cool we can all have opinions on things like that, I still believe side by side the green always comes out worse, but that doesn't mean people cant get results. I will say also my green pads are old, and I mean old lol, as I never liked them, so it could be they have been vastly improved upon since then. It may be time to revisit them next order

RE the mf pads on the 3401, every single pad I've tested has created way way more heat than wool, they just are not ideal. Again, they work, I'm not saying they don't, but they are not optimal in my opinion. Pressure, speed, cleanliness, polish, size, all factors had less of an impact than simply using a more suitable pad. And by a long way


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

stangalang said:


> Thats cool we can all have opinions on things like that, I still believe side by side the green always comes out worse, but that doesn't mean people cant get results. I will say also my green pads are old, and I mean old lol, as I never liked them, so it could be they have been vastly improved upon since then. It may be time to revisit them next order
> 
> RE the mf pads on the 3401, every single pad I've tested has created way way more heat than wool, they just are not ideal. Again, they work, I'm not saying they don't, but they are not optimal in my opinion. Pressure, speed, cleanliness, polish, size, all factors had less of an impact than simply using a more suitable pad. And by a long way


:thumb::thumb:

I did fine that they did create heat but I just changed and tweaked my technique then they performed well:thumb:


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## Steampunk (Aug 11, 2011)

In regards to the OP's query, if you want to stick with the products you have, Stangalang suggestion of the Hex Orange and DK 1.1 combo is probably what I would also try first...

However, if you are interested in getting at least some new pads, I've found the Scholl White Spider Sandwich pads to offer a much broader range of cut/finish than the CG/B&S Orange foam material, as well as being durable, and running smoothly on forced-rotation machines... I haven't tried it with DK 1.1, but on a hard enough paint with a DA, they can finish surprisingly well with Scholl S17+ or S3 Gold XXL, whilst offering a ton of cut. You should be able to remove the equivalent of P2000-P2500 sanding scratches with S17+ on this pad.

Hope this helps... :thumb:



stangalang said:


> I personally think green is rubbish, soft, hard, medium, whatever. It hazes more than orange and carries less cut. Would rather use white than green personally, but that is just personal preference


This experience _exactly_ mirrors my own... The CG's/B&S Green foam material itself left surprisingly aggressive micro-marring for me, and not just on soft paint, either. If your polish/compound is filling, it's not quite as noticeable, but once you strip it back it's there... Even more highly lubricated polishes, like OP-II, do not seem to be able to save this pad from itself. I find its existence equally mysterious.

The Orange Hex/B&S really doesn't really do it for me either (If orange open-cell foam light cutting pads are a person's favorite pad, I actually think Lake Country's material is just a little bit better, though neither offer the cut/finish spectrum of some of the more modern foams.), but it is a bit better... I just skip straight to the Yellow, which has a broader cut/finish spectrum than the orange or even the green. Hex/B&S White is much better than the Green.



stangalang said:


> RE the mf pads on the 3401, every single pad I've tested has created way way more heat than wool, they just are not ideal. Again, they work, I'm not saying they don't, but they are not optimal in my opinion. Pressure, speed, cleanliness, polish, size, all factors had less of an impact than simply using a more suitable pad. And by a long way


Again, I'm going to back Stangalang up on this one...

Forced Rotation DA's are heavily rotationally biased, with most of their correctional power coming from the rotational motion rather than the orbit. Microfiber pads like their fibers to be kept moving in all directions to take advantage of the added surface area that this material can offer. Machines that orbit more than they rotate under pressure can achieve this much better than ones that rotate more than they orbit. This results in more efficient cut, and use of the material, with less heat buildup and marring from the fibers matting down and glazing over...

Can you make MF work on forced rotation? Yes... Do I find it to be an efficient workflow? No. To keep the fibers from glazing flat, I am stopping every pass or two (Sometimes even sooner), and brushing the pad. I also find that Cool Hybrid MF/wool pads work a bit better than standard microfiber pads with forced rotation... Still, it does not finish as well, or cut as cool as on a free rotating DA with low BP RPM's (Even long-throw can spin the BP too quickly sometimes to finish well with these pads; depending upon if your machine is washer modded, and you are using low pressure.). On my Rotex, I've been switching to free-rotation mode to finish when using these pads... However, the process is not efficient, which was kind of the advantage to using MF pads on standard 8mm DA's in the first place... The high cut/finish span that you could get in a 1-2 step job, compared with using some of those older compounds with wool on a rotary that might have needed 3-steps, and to really maximize the cutting potential of tools that were kind of power limited compared with rotaries or forced-rotation DA's.

Short wool pads, and some of the new foams like Scholl White Spider Sandwich, and CarPro Flash cut with incredible efficiency on forced rotation without any extra care, so most of the time I struggle to truly see an advantage to microfiber on FR... Different machines 'sing' with different types of pad material/design.

That said, if someone has a mismatched combo that makes them happy, then by all means keep using it... At the end of the day, life offers bigger challenges than detailing to overcome. :thumb:



chongo said:


> I did fine that they did create heat but I just changed and tweaked my technique then they performed well:thumb:


Hello Chongo... 

You often reference your own technique changes that have allowed you to compensate for certain physics-based limitations of various product combinations... Such as this instance, of compensating for the pad matting/glazing, and the resulting heat generated from using MF pads on machines with a high rotational bias. Yet, you leave those techniques unelaborated, so that others cannot learn from or test for themselves the methodology through which you achieved your results.

The title under your name is 'Professor'... It's a title that deserves respect, for being a person of learning, who shares that knowledge with others. If you have found ways to do what other skilled detailers haven't been able to, please, share them... We will all appreciate learning how you managed it. :thumb:

- Steampunk


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

Steampunk said:


> In regards to the OP's query, if you want to stick with the products you have, Stangalang suggestion of the Hex Orange and DK 1.1 combo is probably what I would also try first...
> 
> However, if you are interested in getting at least some new pads, I've found the Scholl White Spider Sandwich pads to offer a much broader range of cut/finish than the CG/B&S Orange foam material, as well as being durable, and running smoothly on forced-rotation machines... I haven't tried it with DK 1.1, but on a hard enough paint with a DA, they can finish surprisingly well with Scholl S17+ or S3 Gold XXL, whilst offering a ton of cut. You should be able to remove the equivalent of P2000-P2500 sanding scratches with S17+ on this pad.
> 
> ...


Good evening Steampunk :wave:
It's a pity I don't show my work on DW anymore as I just don't have the time to do so as I am pretty busy working with other professional detailers in the uk.

As for limitations when using certain products and machines on different paints, i just adjust when it is needed :thumb:

Explaining to someone or persons on a forum about your own technique is not the best way to go about it so I leave it to the OP to figure that one for himself :thumb::thumb: I only give guidance so then they can work out what's best for them and what they have in front of them. I've found that the best way of helping others on here, which I might add is quite a lot.

As for the title 'Professor'
Well I will not comment on that but like I said before if you would like to see but not all my past details then please follow me on instagram :wave:

P.S I do enjoy your detailed feedback and knowledge you give to DW members :thumb: so keep up the good work.

Mick (Professor)


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## Steampunk (Aug 11, 2011)

chongo said:


> Explaining to someone or persons on a forum about your own technique is not the best way to go about it so I leave it to the OP to figure that one for himself :thumb::thumb: I only give guidance so then they can work out what's best for them and what they have in front of them. I've found that the best way of helping others on here, which I might add is quite a lot.
> 
> As for the title 'Professor'
> Well I will not comment on that but like I said before if you would like to see but not all my past details then please follow me on instagram :wave:
> ...


There are a lot of variables that change from situation to situation that as an experienced detailer one adapts to (Some of which unconsciously), which does make it challenging to share instructions on technique that can be reliably copied; I'll give you that... Also, if you for whatever reasons do not want to attempt sharing the techniques that you have used successfully, that is your prerogative that you have the right to. :thumb:

Likewise, I find reading the suggestions you give interesting, and find the forum a richer place for the professional members who decide to share their knowledge publicly for the benefit of others... 

- Steampunk


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

Steampunk said:


> There are a lot of variables that change from situation to situation that as an experienced detailer one adapts to (Some of which unconsciously), which does make it challenging to share instructions on technique that can be reliably copied; I'll give you that... Also, if you for whatever reasons do not want to attempt sharing the techniques that you have used successfully, that is your prerogative that you have the right to. :thumb:
> 
> Likewise, I find reading the suggestions you give interesting, and find the forum a richer place for the professional members who decide to share their knowledge publicly for the benefit of others...
> 
> - Steampunk


Good evening Steampunk

Like I said before, if I wasn't so busy like today:buffer: I would definitely like to shed more information about what works for me and what changes I make when am machine polishing, but I also have a life after detailing (family) which is important to me:thumb:

Plus I get private messages on instagram every day asking for help which I reply back like I do on here :thumb:

Mick


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