# I am beyond Speechless !! Advice please ??



## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

I have spent four days machine polishing My recently purchased Rav4. Today I took the car to a Toyota main dealer for a Free Visual Health check and guess what the washed the car !!!
I realise of course that this service is free and for that reason I did not expect them to wash. They must have washed it with sandpaper cos all the sodding swirl marks I removed have now been replaced with new ones....
Here is the Email I have just sent to Their service Manager .....

Hi. Further to our telephone conversation I enclose some photographs of My car that was washed by Your Valeters today . The pictures were taken during a Detail on the car just last week. This machine polishing process was carried out to remove All of the swirling marks that were on the car.. With respect Your Valeter has now replaced a lot of these marks by really bad washing techniques IE washing a car that is covered in dust and dirt or with a sponge laden with grit or dust. The car will now need a complete machine polish to gat it back to where it was when I dropped the car into You today..
I greatly appreciate Your carrying out of the VHC. and Your staff on the service counter were very helpful and did a brilliant customer care job. I thank You for that.
Please examine the photographs and I would appreciate You comments.
Charles.A.Huntley.

Here are the photographs I enclosed so They can see the work I did to correct the paintwork.



































My question and the point in putting up this post is What can I expect now ?? I am simply devastated at having to do the whole flaming car again...... 
I realise that the service or inspection was carried out at no cost to Me. The cost of this is borne by Toyota but what can I expect ??

Thanks......


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## GSD (Feb 6, 2011)

There's a "PLEASE DON'T WAS MY CAR" download on this forum for us to print out and put in the car.I feel for you after all the effort you've put into it.


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## SarahAnn (Apr 6, 2011)

Sorry to hear this Charles. I was just wondering how things were going with your new motor.


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## Goju5 (May 22, 2008)

Think ur gonna have to put this down to experience and just remember to stick LOTS of dont wash my car stickers all over the thing and in it the next time u take it to any garage, cos u just know that someone will forget to pass it on that u DONT want it washed! I feel for u with the effort u have put in there, but am not entirely surprised by them washing it as most people enjoy the freebie.


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

GSD;2791353[B said:


> ]There's a "PLEASE DON'T WAS MY CAR" download on this forum for us to print out and put in the car[/B].I feel for you after all the effort you've put into it.


Bit late now :lol:

I'm guessing they will try and 'file your complaint in the bin', but keep at it. They will more than likely offer to 'polish' it for you, which you obviously decline and ask how much the valeters would charge for a 'mop' and ask for that money, and maybe chuck in your next service for free?

If you had it corrected as a service by a professional then you would obviously show them the invoice and get that money back, but as you have done it yourself it's hard to put a price on it.


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

GSD said:


> There's a "PLEASE DON'T WAS MY CAR" download on this forum for us to print out and put in the car.I feel for you after all the effort you've put into it.


I was just about to post, we have something in place for this here: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=144741 and it has worked for quite a few people.

I realise it's no use to you now mate and I totally understand your frustration and anger, but this printable sign has been there for about a year and a half.

Hope you get it corrected and back to how it was before


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## CTR De (Feb 10, 2011)

i feel your pain mate , nissan did the same to my freshly detailed qashqai , took me 4 hours with the polisher to repair the damage


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Put it down to experience . They have done nothing wrong in the eyes of the 99.9 %


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## buckas (Jun 13, 2008)

Viper said:


> I was just about to post, we have something in place for this here: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=144741 and it has worked for quite a few people.


imo

Looks too busy that poster, like someone just found the font and clip art function on their computer and used every single one in it

All you need is a simple 'hook on' the rear view mirror one with easy to see text


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## m0bov (May 2, 2007)

I have one which is a bucket and sponge with lots of bubbles, then a zero with strike through on it. Lots of valets don't even speak english!


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

I thought as the car was not in for a service just the so called VHC (Visual Health Check) that They would not wash the car !!! .. I am aware of the downloadable signs !!!
In this day and age practices like this are simply not on !!


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

ChuckH said:


> I thought as the car was not in for a service just the so called VHC (Visual Health Check) that They would not wash the car !!! .. I am aware of the downloadable signs !!!
> In this day and age practices like this are simply not on !!


Most dealers these days have a company policy, 'EVERY car that enters the workshop MUST be wash 'n' Vacc'd'.


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## David (Apr 6, 2006)

Ben_ZS said:


> Most dealers these days have a company policy, 'EVERY car that enters the workshop MUST be wash 'n' Vacc'd'.


its true, when i picked up my new van i said to not wash it under any circumstancs - they said it might not be possible as every car has to be cleaned before any customer picks it up, i just told them to clean the inside


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

David said:


> its true, when i picked up my new van i said to not wash it under any circumstancs - they said it might not be possible as every car has to be cleaned before any customer picks it up, i just told them to clean the inside


David My car was absolutely spotless when I took it in !! I finished the machining yesterday and applied a coat of Blackfire Wet Diamond that I got from Paul at Ultimate Shine. I washed the car at around 9 this morning carefully towelled it dry and applied a 2nd coat of the BD. Why ever they felt the need to wash it beats Me !!!!!

I will be requesting the Dealer (Who at this point I will not name) To pay for the car to be corrected By Paul at Ultimate Shine rather than repeat the whole process again ..........:thumb:


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

I know some have said to chalk this one down to experience.....I don't agree. 

They offer a professional service. You have a right to expect them to deliver that service with a reasonable amount of care and attention.

They clearly haven't done this and as such have damaged your car. They would be liable to remedy this situation under the supply of goods and services act. That may look like a financial settlement or they may offer to correct the damage themselves. If they refuse to accept liability you could try trading standards who I am sure would take this up for you. 

Most of the time they will want to protect their reputation and I think they will do something to placate you.

My local Mercedes dealership is next door to a BP petrol station - I once saw them bring a brand new car out of the car wash there!!! I was horrified and have asked them not to wash my car since. I just leave a note on the drivers seat and tell the receptionist so it gets written on the job card.


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## A210 AMG (Nov 8, 2008)

I agree I doubt much they can do?

As already said 99.9% of people would probably be happy with a free car wash. 

They have simply washed your car with the technique 99.9% of people on a Sunday would. No intent to damage it in anyway.

Sorry just take it on the chin and remember next time to leave note and tell them


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

At the risk of antagonising you Chuck when you're clearly annoyed at the whole situation, and it's not my intention as you should know  Can I ask why you didn't just wait until this service was done and then do your correction detail afterwards?

Given how highlighted and commonplace this issue is on here, based on the number of similar threads to this we see, surely it was a risk that they _could _wash it poorly, even if you didn't expect them to?

Personally, I'd have factored in that risk, put the DW 'no wash' sign in anyway as a precaution, and then planned to machine the car afterwards. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing and all that.

Just asking as it seems a bit of funny way round of doing it?


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm in the chalk it down to experience camp.

It's not what you want to hear, but even without all of the "Dealer wrecked my car" horror stories on here, I'd have gone with the "Please do not wash" sign to be sure.

I take the point that you shouldn't have to, but being pragmatic I'd sooner print a sheet of paper and be sure than have to do what you now have to do, which is re-polish the car, or pursue the dealer.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Viper said:


> At the risk of antagonising you Chuck when you're clearly annoyed at the whole situation, and it's not my intention as you should know  Can I ask why you didn't just wait until this service was done and then do your correction detail afterwards?
> 
> Given how highlighted and commonplace this issue is on here, based on the number of similar threads to this we see, surely it was a risk that they _could _wash it poorly, even if you didn't expect them to?
> 
> ...


Mark. I had an unexpected problem arise with the detachable Genuine Toyota tow bar that was fitted by the Supplying Toyota Dealer in Newcastle some 140 miles from My home.... It was upon the insistence of the Newcastle Dealer that the car was inspected by another registered Toyota Dealer under the Free Visual Health check that Toyota operate rather than take the car a 280 mile round trip to Newcastle and back.

So in essence it was an unplanned visit to the Dealers..

Yes I realise there are downloadable posters but I genuinely did not think They would wash the car especially as it was absolutely spotless when it went in and was only at the dealership for one hour !! I was sat in the waiting area the whole time but did not realise They would wash the car I mean why would they ????

Having spoken to a member of Their staff late afternoon it transpires they wash the cars with a brush !!!!


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Ah, okay fair dos Chuck - just thought I'd ask mate :thumb: Not that you have to explain anything to me of course, I was just curious 

Best of luck with it :thumb:


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

ChuckH said:


> Having spoken to a member of Their staff late afternoon it transpires they wash the cars with a brush !!!!


Fing vandals!! 

Sorry to hear about the trouble Chuck.


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Thanks ! I have this evening spoken with My daughter who is now a qualified Barrister. She informs Me that the dealer must present the vehicle back to Me in the same order and condition it was presented to them in. Unless instructions otherwise were given. 

I will just wait and see what the Dealer has to say tomorrow and hopefully this can be resolved in an amicable way ..


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Although I sympathise , I doubt any Judge in the Land would see that as a defect including a Barrister.

We do but we are the 00000000.1%


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## transtek (Mar 2, 2007)

You can never win with dealers sometimes. I took my wife's Grand Vitara for its first service and specifically asked them NOT to wash it, and made sure it was written on the instructions for the workshop.
Well, they stuck to their word, and didn't wash it, but when I picked it up I found that they had been having some building work done at the end of their yard and it was splashed all over with dirt and cement, when I had taken it in spotless, with a new coat of wax!
I guess in retrospect it's a good job they didn't then wash it, but even so, you would have thought that they wouldn't park customer's cars anywhere near building work?


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Exotica said:


> Although I sympathise , I doubt any Judge in the Land would see that as a defect including a Barrister.
> 
> We do but we are the 00000000.1%


They would if they were presented with the facts .... If One of Us were to clean one of their paintings with IPA and cause damage that may cost restoration do You think ignorance would stand as an excuse ????
The Dealer employs the Valeter and ir his resposibility to ensure the Valeter knows what He is doing !! We shall see. Believe Me of one thing here if that Dealership were to receive a letter from the partnership My daughter works at They would be left feeling as bad as I do now. But I am not that vindictive !!
Ignorance is NO defence especially if a Person is employed to carry out that specific job !!!

Thanks for the comments...:thumb:


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

heres my thought, it may not be what you want to hear BUT look at it in real world terms.

Theres many posts i see on DW talking about the samething, Which Polisher to buy, whats the best wax for x,y,z, dealer washed my car etc. I see these posts on a daily basis.

Yourself being a member on here for nearly 5 years see these posts too.

its a two way street, we all know dealers have to wash cars before they are handed back, even if you dont want them to they still do.

so to go in and not tell them, or have the appropriate signs, you havent defended yourself well

perfect planning prevents **** poor performance.

if you have planned well you may have something on them.

its like going to Afghanistan on holiday, getting hit by a bullet and then saying i wasn't going for the war i was going sightseeing.

one other thing, never underestimate the stupidity of some people (and that includes some dealers).


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## Colt Man (Dec 3, 2008)

Estoril-5 said:


> one other thing, never underestimate the stupidity of some people (and that includes 99.9% of dealers).


Edited for accuracy


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

It is a fact of law that the car becomes the resposibility of the Dealer whilst the car is in Their care. I or You as the Consumer are protected by this law whatever any signs erected. 

Re Planning perhaps You could read the whole thread. You will see this has been covered.

Yes I failed to put up a sign saying do not wash this absolutely spotless car. But as the previous posts indicate the car was in for an inspection NOT a service.

Your comments RE afganistan are plainly stupid so I will treat them with the contempt they deserve..

I was in business for 32 Years and if any of My People had caused damage to property whist doing their job I would have been held accountable.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I have to argee with Chuck here...

The car was not going in for a service!

It was there for a visual check, nothing else....they should not be touching the car - the clue is in the name VISUAL check.......and WTF are they trying to clean a shiny car for...sorry, but no-one is that stupid.

It's not good enough, dealers need to do what they are asked, and NO MORE....

On a slightly different note, I don't just tell my place not to clean the car...I go inot my "special wax" story...seems to grab their attention a bit more than just an order not to do something... it's always better (esp with males ) to say don't do x y z BECAUSE............

:thumb:


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

At the end of the day you took your car for a 'VHC'
The dealer will produce a piece of paper that says a 'VHC' = incspect X, Y and Z *and* a wash.
You did not ask for a break down of what a 'VHC' includes nor did you tell them to not wash the car.

Sorry, you're right to feel pissed off but you have 100% no come back.


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## Paddy_R (Jan 10, 2007)

I'm kinda lucky as currently the head valeter at the dealership I go to is one of my mates so he knows not to touch the car when it comes in. However the last time I brought it in he was off and I forgot to ask them not to wash it, so when I returned I saw it hadn't been washed and asked the service manager girl why, too which she replied 'we never wash the STs or RSs as we know what you guys are like, but we can do it now if you wish', I politely declined and thanked them for not washing it. 

I'm with you on this chuck, common sense should go a long way and when a car is totally spotless it should not be washed. I really hope you get this sorted at their expense and that the dealership in question learn a big lesson from it.


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## Estoril-5 (Mar 8, 2007)

ok fair points but the fact that you went to the dealers and your car came back _'damaged', _i guess you should have asked about what a Visual check entails rather than assume what it was.

I guess when some people order toad in the hole, that will be a shocker to them when they realise theres no toad.

like i said never underestimate the stupidity of some people.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

*Their paperwork should be more specific:*

"We carry out a visual health check on your vehicle. Following this, any dirt *and* paint on your car will be attacked maniacally with a brush so it is left entirely clean. Of course, to ensure this process is as efficient as possible, your car is lovingly pre-washed in highly alkaline solution to remove all wax and any similar "surface contaminants" that weren't on your car when you bought it. A similar process is carried out on the wheels using our patented acid bath formula.

After the thorough washing stage, any water and paint left on your car is tended to by one of our highly skilled employees with our patented "dirty drying blade and gritty cloth" method. This will ensure maximum water and paint removal; as water can cause rust, which will play havoc with the resale value of your car (and with our 10 year bodywork warranty outlay).

Inside, we will conduct a thorough hoover and apply a lovely high gloss interior finish to your dash and steering wheel. We find this brings the leather on the wheel up to an absolutely stunning shine. You wouldn't believe how well you can see you face in it as it slips effortlessly through your hands.

To finish off, to leave your pride and joy smelling fabulous as the day you bought it, our special pine-tree oil car air-freshner will leave you feeling light headed and happy all the way home. Indeed, your *entire* car will look *just* like it did the day you collected it from us.

If you would prefer not to receive this "courtesy" service, please ask accordingly at the front desk, who will be sure to pass the message on to your dedicated team of car enhancers out back, who will probably do it anyway.

Of course, you could leave a sign saying you're a member of some beardy-wierdy "I can do it better than you" car washing website, in which case our mechanics will take great pleasure in pointing out every imperfection and stone-chip on your car on the jobsheet, and helpfully reminding you that they didn't do it whilst it was in with them."


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Bero said:


> At the end of the day you took your car for a 'VHC'
> The dealer will produce a piece of paper that says a 'VHC' = incspect X, Y and Z *and* a wash.
> You did not ask for a break down of what a 'VHC' includes nor did you tell them to not wash the car.
> 
> Sorry, you're right to feel pissed off but you have 100% no come back.


Sorry bit that is simply just incorrect !! My Daughter fired an E mail to both the Service Manager and the Dealer Principle just before lunch today. My Daughter is a Qualified Barrister and specialises in Insolvency. Within an Hour an agreement was made...

So I would urge You not to make sweeping statements that may just prevent others form getting their entitlements...


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

I'm not saying what happened to Chuck's car is acceptable, as they should still have respect for peoples cars and common sense. Has anybody thought about it from the otherside?

On an average day a dealership's valeters will have to do 25+ service wash n vacs this is amongst New and Used cars. Would it be worth doing the job if they had to change the buckets every car when the get £2 a car? The mechanics take the keys to the valeters most of the time so it's their responsibilty to know not to wash it.

Using a stronger TFR and wheel acid is not only timesaving but also cost effective that's why they use them.

As people say, 'People like us are only a minority' yes we are, but what about the vast majority that are chuffed to bitsnwhen they realise their car has been washed for free? Some people never wash their cars so the in house valeters actually make their cars look 10times better. Yes they might cause some swirls but is the owner going to have a better wash technique, I doubt it probably worse!

Just my 2 pence really.......


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## JenJen (Jun 30, 2010)

expect nothing, VW Aberdeen stripped my BBS caps while cleaning my car and ruined the freshly machined paint work... over a year later and nada...

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=173456


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## SarahAnn (Apr 6, 2011)

What was the outcome Chuck?


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## JenJen (Jun 30, 2010)

SarahAnn said:


> What was the outcome Chuck?


have a look at the thread linked below last comment. Ended up Robert re did my car for me (bless him) and i replaced the caps at my own cost!


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## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

ChuckH said:


> Sorry bit that is simply just incorrect !! My Daughter fired an E mail to both the Service Manager and the Dealer Principle just before lunch today. My Daughter is a Qualified Barrister and specialises in Insolvency. Within an Hour an agreement was made...
> 
> So I would urge You not to make sweeping statements that may just prevent others form getting their entitlements...


Great news chuck! A small victory for us.

Unfortunately many of us don't have relations which work for a large law firm and as such we may often get shunted to the side.

However, if you've achieved the desired outcome then it just goes to show that the victory is out there you just have to pursue it. Well done!


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

Ben_ZS said:


> I'm not saying what happened to Chuck's car is acceptable, as they should still have respect for peoples cars and common sense. Has anybody thought about it from the otherside?
> 
> On an average day a dealership's valeters will have to do 25+ service wash n vacs this is amongst New and Used cars. Would it be worth doing the job if they had to change the buckets every car when the get £2 a car? The mechanics take the keys to the valeters most of the time so it's their responsibilty to know not to wash it.
> 
> ...


Many Years ago I worked on a sub contract basis as a roof tiler. We were paid by the Sq Metre. We had to work extremely hard to achieve our self set targets. There are 64 plain tiles to the Metre and if one of those tiles was incorrectly laid the whole job would not be paid until it was corrected NO excuse would have been accepted !!!
Do You honestly think I have not considered the Valeters position ?? If that Person is employed as a Valeter they should know that modern water based will not tolerate being attacked with a flaming brush !! Sorry but I expect My car to be treated with due respect and care. Not in the way that it was !! Whether that operative is on 2 quid a wash or 200 quid a wash is of NO consequence to Me !!!
All the excuses in the world will not change what They did and the cost to Them to correct the damage..

There are No winners here !! I have won nothing and would not wish to score points by getting some poor bugger in the crap !! But A the car did NOT need a clean and B whoever did the wash should not be washing cars End of !!

The only winner I hope will be the next Person whose car they are let loose with !!!.........................................:thumb:


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

keep us updated chuck.. unfortunately theres no definite proof you didn't do it on the morning of the visual check..
ofcourse, most of us know thats not true, but the dealer will always be able to argue this point, if they dont give in when the law firm get involved that is.

lol: disregard this bit.... :wall: i had opened the window a little while ago, so the last 5-6 comments were not up :lol well done mate:thumb:

im not sure if theres anything that can be done to stop a dealer washing your car short of having a legal contract drawn up, stating if its washed by thier valeter, they must pay all costs to a detailer of your choice to correct the paintwork... and have them sign it..
but most likely they would refuse to sign it, and if you persist they will refuse your service ect.

i will be using the do not wash signs in hope that they will stop them washing the car, the salesman will be informed,(using cueys special wax story), and a total of 3 signs will be on the car, one on the steering wheel, and one on each rear passangers window, 
having them on the outside will let me know if the car wash washed(unless it rains :lol


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

the valeters side.... not all valeters are under such pressure,
someone i know is a manager at a blue oval dealership, he has 5 valeters working for him, who are all due for sacking from what hes been saying, they are putting out 8-10 cars a day.... between all 5 of them!
the rest of the time is spent being idiots and messing around.. and ive seen his car which is washed by them once a week... swirl central....


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

Why should anyone have to accept it and chalk it down to experience? I am sure there was no intent to damage but they did through poor wash technique. And it is a defect that is clear once presented with facts. I am sure he will use a DNW sign in future but why should we, as proud owners, be culpable for dealer's poor workmanship just because we didn't ask them to not wash the car. 

It's like saying it was your fault you got mugged because you had your fancy phone on show while you were on it. You deserved it.

The reason they continue to provide a crap service is people put up with it.


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## Magic Detail (Jul 25, 2010)

I think too much is being expected of the "valeters" to be honest. 'Cleaning' a car, i.e removing dirt from it, is a relatively unskilled process in the grand scheme of things. Cleaning a car and avoiding causing damage is something very different. Dealership Valeters main job role is to 'clean' cars, remove dirt, which they do. This sort of thing happens on £170k supercars, it shouldn't happen on any car, so the point is, there's not much that can be done apart from not stand for it when it happens and try to reclaim the costs of having the damage rectified.

Well done on the outcome btw :thumb:


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

Glad it's sorted, but I do hope that nobody on this thread ever posts about exorbitant main dealer rates ever again.


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## Superspec (Feb 25, 2011)

Anyway, the point isn't really whether or not they wash the car as part of the service. It's about the care they take in doing so. We ask dealers NOT to wash the car because we know they DON'T take care and can do without the hassle of dealing with the aftermath. It doesn't excuse the poor work the valeters do. 

If they took care with the wash and didn't damage the paint there would be no argument.


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

Chuck, I wasn't making excuses for valeters mate as I know they should not have under any circumstances done what they done to your car. 

Some valeters are better than others, and others have more pride in their work and common sense which we can't really control.

I didn't mean anything by what I posted so I hope I didn't offend you.

I'm glad you have had it sorted swiftly, even though shouldn't of had to if they hadn't waahed it.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

hutchingsp said:


> Glad it's sorted, but I do hope that nobody on this thread ever posts about exorbitant main dealer rates ever again.


Why not? They charge a ridiculous amount of money per hour then have the audacity to damage your car FOC! It's only by more of "us" complaining about the service that anything will ever get done about it, I'm waiting for the day someone takes them to court and a precedent is set!


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## hutchingsp (Apr 15, 2006)

bigmc said:


> Why not? They charge a ridiculous amount of money per hour then have the audacity to damage your car FOC! It's only by more of "us" complaining about the service that anything will ever get done about it, I'm waiting for the day someone takes them to court and a precedent is set!


If it takes longer to wash each vehicle to the same level that we all do there is an increased cost per vehicle. Who's that going to be passed on to?

I know this opinion won't win the popular vote, but I'd sooner stick to a "Please do not wash" sign than pay £20 extra to have the car washed to a standard that still won't be as good as I do myself.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

hutchingsp said:


> If it takes longer to wash each vehicle to the same level that we all do there is an increased cost per vehicle. Who's that going to be passed on to?
> 
> I know this opinion won't win the popular vote, but I'd sooner stick to a "Please do not wash" sign than pay £20 extra to have the car washed to a standard that still won't be as good as I do myself.


The easy answer is don't wash them at all then, the only reason they should even contemplate washing them is to remove their grubby hand prints.


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

bigmc said:


> Why not? They charge a ridiculous amount of money per hour then have the audacity to damage your car FOC! It's only by more of "us" complaining about the service that anything will ever get done about it, I'm waiting for the day someone takes them to court and a precedent is set!


the thing i love about main dealers... they charge £18-20 an hour in labour costs... yet all the mechanics i know who work for dealerships make about £7 an hour...


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

CraigQQ said:


> the thing i love about main dealers... they charge £18-20 an hour in labour costs... yet all the mechanics i know who work for dealerships make about £7 an hour...


Where is that?! I'd love to find a dealer/garage that charges those sort of prices, my local Ford garage is £120/hour


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## ChuckH (Nov 23, 2006)

The Jaguar Garage (Stratstones ) Edinburgh where I was going to get the XF serviced work on £110 per hour.. Most Main dealers are £80+ per hour for the labour content. Plus the simply Huge mark up on the parts.... So these washes are anything but free. With servicing it is included in the price. But why should We not be given a choice ??? Many are under the misunderstanding that They are getting a free car wash and vac. Sorry but this is simply not the case You are paying for this service whether You want to or not !!

Stratsones have quoted just under £500 for a service on My XFS . Jaguartech in Newcastle will do a better job and will do the service plus a very close check over of the car to identify any warranty issues for £260 all in ..... Thats a nice day out in Newcastle then .......... And yes NO wash is included......


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## sussyminds (May 6, 2011)

:wave::wave:Just a small point. if a mechanic was to change a spark plug on your car, he would do it because he was qualified to do it. Why should it be different for a valeter. if he or she is a valeter, he or she should be qualified.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

ChuckH said:


> Having spoken to a member of Their staff late afternoon it transpires they wash the cars with a brush !!!!


Yep and they do at Saab in Canterbury , i have watched in awe trying to pick up some tips.
If its any help one of my customers with an RS had this lately at a Ford dealership , i emailed them and they agreed for me to recorrect the car and sent me payment in full , some dealerships so accept responsibility BUT this is dependant on YOU the customer informing them the car must not be washed , if you havent then they are offering a service that 99.9% of the population would be happy with , its only because of what we do that makes us feel this way.


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

I would have thought any self respecting dealer would pay for the work to be fixed.

I do a fair few of these jobs and the dealer just holds their hands up and admits the mistake.

They think cleaning the car is a service, and majority of people are happy for it, that is the problem dealers have for years swirls have never been an issue untill us DW people come along.

Volvo Warrington think swirls are normal in cars, thats what the manager said to me when they refused to pay for a customers car, hence he will not buy a new car from them again.


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

The Cueball said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Glad you enjoyed it Cuey :thumb: A like a Friday afternoon rant!  :lol:


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

ChuckH said:


> Sorry bit that is simply just incorrect !! My Daughter fired an E mail to both the Service Manager and the Dealer Principle just before lunch today. My Daughter is a Qualified Barrister and specialises in Insolvency. Within an Hour an agreement was made...
> 
> So I would urge You not to make sweeping statements that may just prevent others form getting their entitlements...


I'm glad you got it sorted to your satisfaction, but don't confuse entitlment with good will gestures.

They have a duty of care for your car and are required to complete a job to a satisfactory level. If they've done 100s of cars in a similar fashion and nobody has complained it could be deemed to be satisfactory. If they fobbed you off and it eventually went to court I believe you would struggle to win. Anyway all is good now - did they offer to get the work done at a detailer of choulce or pay you for your time?


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Anyone would struggle to win in court as a judge would say its normal to have swirl marks . In the real world its not normal to have swirl free paint .


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## Bel (Mar 1, 2011)

> Volvo Warrington think swirls are normal in cars,





> a judge would say its normal to have swirl marks . In the real world its not normal to have swirl free paint .


By way of reality check for everybody, this was certainly *my* view until I discovered this site, which was in March this year. And I've been driving for over 20 years....

It's easy to get caught up in our own little world here, but the fact is that most people consider swirls to be an unavoidable part of a car's ageing process!

I'm chuffed to bits that the OP got a result, and would always complain if any job gets done badly - including a wash - but when push really comes to shove you're pretty much entirely dependant on gestures of good will, regardless of how logical and well thought out any arguments to the contrary may appear.

Of course, if somebody could link to some court papers showing actual judgements to the contrary then I'll eat my words


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## Colt Man (Dec 3, 2008)

Its not realy anything to do eith washing to be honest, the basis on which they have to pay for it putting right is to return the car in EXACTLY the same condition they got it (exept fixing the stuff that needs to be fixed) and in this case they didnt.

My dad works for land rover and im a valeter/detailer and i get refferred work from them for cars not washed properly, he says if a customer complains, they sort it its called customer service and what brings customers back


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