# Polishing pad conditioner sprays



## wish wash (Aug 25, 2011)

Does anyone bother with these pad conditioning sprays. I noticed chemical guys does one and it supposedly increases work time, reduces dust etc. 

I've never used them so will it improve anything or is it just a gimmick in a bottle.


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## garage_dweller (Apr 10, 2018)

I just give the pad a light spray with a quick detailer before adding the dots of polish.


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## Sam6er (Apr 3, 2016)

I use the Auto finesse pad prime, has worked well for me so far.


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

Just use a spray bottle filled with water.

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## AudiPhil (Aug 11, 2018)

Brian1612 said:


> Just use a bottle of water.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


^^^^What he said^^^^


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## GSVHammer (Feb 7, 2009)

I have the CG one. I only use it when i put a clean pad on the machine. When it's gone I wont replace it.


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## derbigofast (Dec 6, 2011)

pad conditioner sounds like detail spray to me (american terms)


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

water or a pad conditioner are fine, i use a pad conditioner myself, dont use a qd. A qd is made to flash off which is exactly what you dont want.


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## garage_dweller (Apr 10, 2018)

Anything wet, including qd, will make the pad damp. If you spray qd on your clothes it doesn’t disappear. 


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

No not anymore, polishes are way more lubricated than they used to be 

If you are using a polish that wasn't made in the 80's, avoid water at all costs unless you are trying to manipulate cut levels, and don't use a QD as they are designed to remove residues and flash clean (which is the exact opposite of what you are trying to achieve). Water thins out your polishes reducing its lubricity and creating a lot of unrequited mess, and therefore clean up.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

garage_dweller said:


> Anything wet, including qd, will make the pad damp. If you spray qd on your clothes it doesn't disappear.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


you could spray your cloths with acid and that wouldn't disappear, wouldn't recommend using it on a polishing pad though.


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

I only use a mist of water if am using something like 105 or 205 or D300 helps with the polishing cycle especially on sticky soft black paint.


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## garage_dweller (Apr 10, 2018)

cheekymonkey said:


> you could spray your cloths with acid and that wouldn't disappear, wouldn't recommend using it on a polishing pad though.


I think you'll find it would.

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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

garage_dweller said:


> I think you'll find it would.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:lol::lol::lol:


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## CrimsonSkull (Oct 22, 2017)

I personally don't use conditioners or spray any water and haven't found any problems.

The main thing for me is what the polish manufacturer says.
If they product a primer to work with their polishes then I might use one.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Nope, just prime the pad properly with product. Pad sprays are just another gimmick. Same as pad conditioners.

Prime pad with product, use it, wash it with water in the sink (I use a little washing up liquid as well), set it out to dry on a rack where air can circulate around it.

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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

MBRuss said:


> Nope, just prime the pad properly with product. Pad sprays are just another gimmick. Same as pad conditioners.
> 
> Prime pad with product, use it, wash it with water in the sink (I use a little washing up liquid as well), set it out to dry on a rack where air can circulate around it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


so instead of a squirt or 2 of pad conditioner you fill the pad with polish/compound, which is more expensive and will clog the pad quicker.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

The point is to have the whole pad lightly coated with product, so that all the pad is doing work when it's moving against the paint. Having some random thin spray on there is just diluting your compound with a product that won't do anything.

You don't heavily saturate the pad with compound, you just ensure it has light coverage so you're not rubbing a dry pad over the surface. Hence priming it.

But sure, keep buying the snake oil sprays if you want to. I'm sure they polish well.

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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

MBRuss said:


> The point is to have the whole pad lightly coated with product, so that all the pad is doing work when it's moving against the paint. Having some random thin spray on there is just diluting your compound with a product that won't do anything.
> 
> You don't heavily saturate the pad with compound, you just ensure it has light coverage so you're not rubbing a dry pad over the surface. Hence priming it.
> 
> ...


whether you see it as a snake oil or not, understanding what it does and how it works is a must to appreciate it . Fully covering the pad with product is still a waste of product and no good for the pad, even if you do it lightly. Pad spray helps keep the polish on top of the pad and usable instead of in the pad like when it is covered the way you explained. pad spray helps keep a pad running cooler, better for your pad and your paint,coating a pad with polish blocks the paws stopping the air flowing through pad, so runs hotter which isnt any good for the pad or your paint. pad spray helps keep the pad clean so doesn't get clogged.priming the pad with polish starts clogging the pad before you have even used it. pad conditioner save money and time, its one snake oil i dont mind buying.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> whether you see it as a snake oil or not, understanding what it does and how it works is a must to appreciate it . Fully covering the pad with product is still a waste of product and no good for the pad, even if you do it lightly. Pad spray helps keep the polish on top of the pad and usable instead of in the pad like when it is covered the way you explained. pad spray helps keep a pad running cooler, better for your pad and your paint,coating a pad with polish blocks the paws stopping the air flowing through pad, so runs hotter which isnt any good for the pad or your paint. pad spray helps keep the pad clean so doesn't get clogged.priming the pad with polish starts clogging the pad before you have even used it. pad conditioner save money and time, its one snake oil i dont mind buying.


Yet all the polish manufacturers (aside from the ones producing the pad conditioners (which are mostly water) will tell you to prime the pad with product, not other random sprays. It's not a waste of product either. You're using the same amount of product, you're just covering the face of the pad with it before touching the panel. Rather than spraying snake oil on the pad and then rubbing it around in the compound/polish on the panel. If a compound/polish manufacturer thought that using some sort of spray with their product would improve it, and they could make money from selling it, then don't you think they would make it?

I'm not aware of any pro detailers using pad conditioners either. All the ones I've spoken to or watched online recommend priming with product, so 100% of the pad has a light coating of the actual polishing agent, not some water mixed with colouring and a funny smell. None of them have anything to gain from saying that, either. The ones I've spoken to shrug off pad conditioners as nonsense products.

Also priming with product doesn't clog the pad. If you're clogging the pad then you're applying too much. Then after every set spur the pad to clear it out, at which point you're back to a pad with a minimal coating of product, ready for a couple of fresh blobs to work in.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm always open to learning, but I just don't see that pad conditioners do what they propose to do. The fact that it's the main snake oil producers like Chemical Guys that produce it doesn't deter me from that opinion.

From what I can find, the more professional companies (Gtechniq, Rupes, or even Meguiar's, etc) don't produce a pad conditioning spray, I wonder why. Especially when these are the brands that the Pros tend to use, so they'd have a huge market if there was a reason to produce such a product.

Do you even know what is in these sprays? Or are you just happy to believe the marketing nonsense that the likes of Chemical Guys feed you?

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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Just found this from one of the Polished Bliss guys in another thread about pad conditioning sprays:

"I only very rarely prime a pad with a QD. 

Most modern polishes are so well lubricated that it's unnecessary and in some cases, I think it affects the performance of the polish by introducing additional liquid to the equation and possibly affecting how the product cuts.

Also, many of the stiffer pads use a non-reticulated foam: moisture can then get trapped in the cell structure of the pad where it heats, forms steam and then the pad explodes. 

Just make sure you use the correct amount of polish on the pad and that your pad and panel are spotless."

So sounds like water based pad sprays can actually cause more heat, not less. I've certainly not found my pads to even feel slightly warm after a set, let alone be overheating.

For me, the only thing I want between my pad and paint is the polish or compound that is being worked. Anything else is just going to dilute the product or add things that the polish/compound manufacturer didn't intend to be there. Pad conditioning sprays are probably mostly water and water is cheap, so if the polish/compound manufacturers thought their products would work better with more of it then they'd certainly be adding it in the polish/compound.

The only time I spray anything on my pad is when I mist deionised water on the pad to extend the working time of M105/M205, but then you're just adding back the moisture that you've lost when working the product to enable you to work it longer. The water is on top of the compound/polish to re-hydrate it, not being used to "condition" the pad.

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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

> unrequited mess


You what?


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

MBRuss said:


> Just found this from one of the Polished Bliss guys in another thread about pad conditioning sprays:
> 
> *"I only very rarely prime a pad with a QD. *
> 
> ...


and i totally agree, he states at the top he is on about priming with a QD. i also agree with only using the correct amount of polish and not overload it. if you get no heat at all in your pad then you are not working the polish enough


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

Andy from Sandy said:


> You what?


you only get that when not using it right :thumb:


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> and i totally agree, he states at the top he is on about priming with a QD. i also agree with only using the correct amount of polish and not overload it. if you get no heat at all in your pad then you are not working the polish enough


Funny that you missed the "very rarely" bit, and this bit:

"Most modern polishes are so well lubricated that it's unnecessary and in some cases, I think it affects the performance of the polish by introducing additional liquid to the equation and possibly affecting how the product cuts."

I don't disagree with the final part about not using too much product, as I don't overload the pad with product, just make sure the pad is adequately primed with it. (I.E. surface fully covered to avoid dry buffing.)

If I had the time, resources and patience then I'd do testing and research to verify my opinion. Luckily, I don't need to. Kevin Brown has already done it and from his results recommends fully priming with product.

Do you also believe that modern leather needs "conditioning"?

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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

MBRuss said:


> Yet all the polish manufacturers (aside from the ones producing the pad conditioners (which are mostly water) will tell you to prime the pad with product, not other random sprays. It's not a waste of product either. You're using the same amount of product, you're just covering the face of the pad with it before touching the panel. Rather than spraying snake oil on the pad and then rubbing it around in the compound/polish on the panel. If a compound/polish manufacturer thought that using some sort of spray with their product would improve it, and they could make money from selling it, then don't you think they would make it?
> 
> I'm not aware of any pro detailers using pad conditioners either. All the ones I've spoken to or watched online recommend priming with product, so 100% of the pad has a light coating of the actual polishing agent, not some water mixed with colouring and a funny smell. None of them have anything to gain from saying that, either. The ones I've spoken to shrug off pad conditioners as nonsense products.
> 
> ...


mate if you want to use the way you do your quite within your right, but now your just contradicting yourself, if its someone who makes the polish they seem to tell the truth in your opinion, yet those who make pad conditioners its just marketing nonsense. i take it you have done extensive research on this or is it just a guess. you state it doesn't clog the pad yet you have to clean it after every set. that say's your using too much product.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

MBRuss said:


> Funny that you missed the "very rarely" bit, and this bit:
> 
> "Most modern polishes are so well lubricated that it's unnecessary and in some cases, I think it affects the performance of the polish by introducing additional liquid to the equation and possibly affecting how the product cuts."
> 
> ...


I dont use the Brown method it wastes too much product imo. i sooner use 1 or 2 sprays of snake oil then product that wont be used, but you can do it what ever way you like. I dont know many pro's who use the Brown method


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> mate if you want to use the way you do your quite within your right, but now your just contradicting yourself, if its someone who makes the polish they seem to tell the truth in your opinion, yet those who make pad conditioners its just marketing nonsense. i take it you have done extensive research on this or is it just a guess. you state it doesn't clog the pad yet you have to clean it after every set. that say's your using too much product.


What, so you don't clean your pads as you polish? Everyone knows that working cleaner is better. Cleaning them after every set doesn't mean I'm using too much of anything, it just means I'm sensible enough to keep my pads clean.

Not contradicting myself at all. Any of the firms that make polishes or compounds could throw some water in with colouring and perfume and make a profit from it, however it's just the snake oil guys that do.

What proof do you have that pad conditioners work better than priming as per manufacturer recommendations?

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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> I dont use the Brown method it wastes too much product imo. i sooner use 1 or 2 sprays of snake oil then product that wont be used, but you can do it what ever way you like. I dont know many pro's who use the Brown method


So you'd sooner spend more money on an additional product that dilutes your polish than just use the polish as intended?

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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

MBRuss said:


> So you'd sooner spend more money on an additional product that dilutes your polish than just use the polish as intended?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


 i would sooner use 1 to 2 sprays of pad conditioner that soaks into top of pad than use excess polish. polish is far more expensive than pad spray. so works out more economical. if your useing enough for it to dilute the polish, then you are using way to much.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

MBRuss said:


> What, so you don't clean your pads as you polish? Everyone knows that working cleaner is better. Cleaning them after every set doesn't mean I'm using too much of anything, it just means I'm sensible enough to keep my pads clean.
> 
> Not contradicting myself at all. Any of the firms that make polishes or compounds could throw some water in with colouring and perfume and make a profit from it, however it's just the snake oil guys that do.
> 
> ...


No i dont clean my pad while working, i prefer to change to a new pad instead. unless you are using some sort of liquid you wont totally clean your pad. Again this will effect how your pad works.
Would love to see the evidence that the snake oil is just water colouring and perfume. 
All the polishes i have used have never said overload your pad with product. As i recall they say something along the lines of put 3/4 pea size blobs on your pad. which i do.works great with the snake oil


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## Brian1612 (Apr 5, 2015)

In fairness to monkey there is a well documented and proven method of polishing using water on the second pass to reactivate the dried polish. I personally machine the car this way and the results are excellent. It allows the polish to go further, provides a less cutting second pass after a good correction on the first and creates a fantastic jeweling finish.

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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Brian1612 said:


> In fairness to monkey there is a well documented and proven method of polishing using water on the second pass to reactivate the dried polish. I personally machine the car this way and the results are excellent. It allows the polish to go further, provides a less cutting second pass after a good correction on the first and creates a fantastic jeweling finish.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


That's not what he's saying though. I said I've used water to extend the usage of polish before, so I get that. He's on about using a special spray to prime the pad first.

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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

Now he may not thank me for dragging his name into this but when I went to see Dave KG we used Menzerna polishes.

We applied one quick spritz of conditioner to mist the pad before starting. The spray was held some distance from the pad so it was very light.

That's how my teacher does it, so that's how I do it.

However when using the Meguiars microfiber system we did prime the pad with the polish.

So spritzing or priming is polish specific.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> No i dont clean my pad while working, i prefer to change to a new pad instead. unless you are using some sort of liquid you wont totally clean your pad. Again this will effect how your pad works.
> Would love to see the evidence that the snake oil is just water colouring and perfume.
> All the polishes i have used have never said overload your pad with product. As i recall they say something along the lines of put 3/4 pea size blobs on your pad. which i do.works great with the snake oil


Well either you use hundreds of pads per car, or you're not working as clean as you could be. Each set your pad is building up with clear coat and spent product, so either you're changing your pad after every set (and using hundreds of pads per car) or you're working that dead clear coat and used polish back over the paint for a second, third or fourth set, before switching the pad out. It's better to clean that crap out as often as possible for the best results. You can easily spur a pad with a brush or compressed air and get that stuff out and end up with a much fresher cleaner pad than if you didn't bother.

I've never used a polish that says to overload the pad with product either. That's why I've never said to overload it. You're looking to wet the face of the pad with product, not soak a bottle of it into the pad. Not sure how that's so difficult to understand.

Any part of the face of the pad that doesn't have product on it isn't doing any polishing, so there's no waste to ensure the whole face has a light covering. The whole face of the pad needs product on it in order to polish, unless you believe that your snake oil has abrasives in it, in which case why use any product at all? Just use your snake oil and polish with that.

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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

Even with just 3 pea sized dots on a pad after you have spread the product on your 2 x 2 the pad will have picked up polish across all of it.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Andy from Sandy said:


> Now he may not thank me for dragging his name into this but when I went to see Dave KG we used Menzerna polishes.
> 
> We applied one quick spritz of conditioner to mist the pad before starting. The spray was held some distance from the pad so it was very light.
> 
> ...


That's a whole other can of worms. What do these magic pad sprays do with a microfibre pad? No way a quick mist of watery stuff will wet every fibre.

Reading Dave's comments on the subject I notice that he says there's no difference between using water or pad conditioner, and I see that written a lot online as well. Nobody seems to actually know what these sprays contain, but there never seems to be any suggestion that they provide anything more than a water spritz.

Probably because the pad sprays are mostly likely mainly overpriced water.

I think I might have a word with John from Forensic Detailing and see if he fancies doing some proper testing to settle this once and for all. Looking online doesn't reveal a clear cut answer.

Mike Phillips recommends priming with product (as all the top guys do), but then mentions the use of water or pad sprays at the end of his article as well.

I'd also be interested to know exactly what's in these pad sprays and how the contents are likely to affect the polish/compound and their lubricity and cut.

As I say, I'm always open to learning and changing how I do things if I think it's better, but all cheeky monkeys assertions about priming the pad with product are just plain wrong.

The pad doesn't cake straight up, nor does it overheat the pad or paint. I seriously doubt the likes of Kevin Brown and other pro detailers would be doing this if it caused all the downsides that CM asserts it does.

Does it use a little more product? Possibly, but it depends how well you lightly apply it to the pad. After all, the whole pad needs product to do work, so pre spreading it across the surface just ensures you're doing work from the very start.

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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Andy from Sandy said:


> Even with just 3 pea sized dots on a pad after you have spread the product on your 2 x 2 the pad will have picked up polish across all of it.


Sure, but in that time your pad is dry buffing that area until it's fully covered.

Admittedly that doesn't matter if you're polishing a neglected finish, but if you're doing final finishing you don't want to risk inducing new marring from dry buffing.

I think the whole priming thing is to moisten the pad somewhat to soften it as well. Mike Phillips mentioned using water for that purpose with stuff pads. Other people say about working a small area or on a test panel first to even pre-heat the pad to soften it before use so that it conforms to contours better.

There just isn't an agreed best way to do things, not really any understanding of what these pad sprays contain. I do think it says a lot though that very few companies are making them.

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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

> That's a whole other can of worms. What do these magic pad sprays do with a microfibre pad? No way a quick mist of watery stuff will wet every fibre.


No you have mis-read. I wrote, "We primed the microfiber pad with polish."

We actually put on quite a lot of polish initially.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

MBRuss said:


> Well either you use hundreds of pads per car, or you're not working as clean as you could be. Each set your pad is building up with clear coat and spent product, so either you're changing your pad after every set (and using hundreds of pads per car) or you're working that dead clear coat and used polish back over the paint for a second, third or fourth set, before switching the pad out. It's better to clean that crap out as often as possible for the best results. You can easily spur a pad with a brush or compressed air and get that stuff out and end up with a much fresher cleaner pad than if you didn't bother.
> 
> I've never used a polish that says to overload the pad with product either. That's why I've never said to overload it. You're looking to wet the face of the pad with product, not soak a bottle of it into the pad. Not sure how that's so difficult to understand.
> 
> ...


wow 100's of pads really that's just total rubbish mate. i change my pad after every panel, i dont see how just cleaning a pad dry will remove the paint and spent polish you talk of that is in the pad, you wont move that without detergent. After 1/2 sprays of pad conditioner the pad is well lubricated add 3 or 4 blobs of polish spread it on paint and the polish is spread over the pad, been doing it that way for over 25 years and have tried the other ways but prefer the way i do it. has always given great results. If you are happy doing it your way than carry on with it.the way you talk about the pad conditioner and call it a snake oil it would seem you are an expert on it. yet have a fealing you have never used it. maybe your dislike of it would carry a bit of weight if you had even used it.


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

MBRuss said:


> Sure,* but in that time your pad is dry buffing that area until it's fully covered.
> *
> Admittedly that doesn't matter if you're polishing a neglected finish, but if you're doing final finishing you don't want to risk inducing new marring from dry buffing.
> 
> ...


No there is no dry buffing. firstly the pad conditioner dampens the pad, but mainly you have spread the polish all over the paint, causing a layer of polish between the pad and paint.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Andy from Sandy said:


> No you have mis-read. I wrote, "We primed the microfiber pad with polish."
> 
> We actually put on quite a lot of polish initially.


No, I just meant what happens if you try to use one of those sprays with a microfibre pad. I wasn't saying that's what you'd done. It's a good idea to have all the microfibres coated with polish, yes.

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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> wow 100's of pads really that's just total rubbish mate. i change my pad after every panel, i dont see how just cleaning a pad dry will remove the paint and spent polish you talk of that is in the pad, you wont move that without detergent. After 1/2 sprays of pad conditioner the pad is well lubricated add 3 or 4 blobs of polish spread it on paint and the polish is spread over the pad, been doing it that way for over 25 years and have tried the other ways but prefer the way i do it. has always given great results. If you are happy doing it your way than carry on with it.the way you talk about the pad conditioner and call it a snake oil it would seem you are an expert on it. yet have a fealing you have never used it. maybe your dislike of it would carry a bit of weight if you had even used it.


Well if you're only using one pad per panel then you'd definitely benefit from cleaning it. Always better to work clean, and that's just a fact. Brushing the pad out visibly removes the crap from within it. Don't need detergent to get out dead clear coat, as it's not in liquid form in the pad. It's solid particles, that can be brushed out, whether you believe it or not. Again, all the top detailers recommend frequently cleaning your pads, either with air or a brush. But again, you seem to want to go against the advice of the guys at the top of their game and do your own thing.

I'm quite aware I can carry on doing it the way I like - but if you remember it was you that came storming in to dispute what I was saying about priming the pad as per how Kevin Brown, Mike Phillips, Larry Kosilla, etc all do it. If it's so wrong, how come all these guys do it that way?

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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> No there is no dry buffing. firstly the pad conditioner dampens the pad, but mainly you have spread the polish all over the paint, causing a layer of polish between the pad and paint.


If you read who I was responding to, it was Andy, who was saying about just putting 3 or 4 blobs of product onto a dry pad and then starting the machine on the panel.

Therefore, in the scenario discussed, there would be dry buffing.

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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

MBRuss said:


> Well if you're only using one pad per panel then you'd definitely benefit from cleaning it. Always better to work clean, and that's just a fact. Brushing the pad out visibly removes the crap from within it. Don't need detergent to get out dead clear coat, as it's not in liquid form in the pad. It's solid particles, that can be brushed out, whether you believe it or not. Again, all the top detailers recommend frequently cleaning your pads, either with air or a brush. But again, you seem to want to go against the advice of the guys at the top of their game and do your own thing.
> 
> I'm quite aware I can carry on doing it the way I like - but if you remember it was you that came storming in to dispute what I was saying about priming the pad as per how Kevin Brown, Mike Phillips, Larry Kosilla, etc all do it. If it's so wrong, how come all these guys do it that way?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


disagree there is no way you can perfectly clean a pad without liquid and detergent polish does stick to a pad, a chemist will back that up, and on that front they know far more than any detailer. As for air cleaning no thanks not what you want really imo.
I think if you check back you came storming in telling everyone that there doing it wrong, even though you havent tried the method or the pad conditioner. I have tried it your way and it doesn't suit me. you cant say the same, your just guessing and taking what you have been told as gospel.try the method before you diss it


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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

MBRuss said:


> If you read who I was responding to, it was Andy, who was saying about just putting 3 or 4 blobs of product onto a dry pad and then starting the machine on the panel.
> 
> Therefore, in the scenario discussed, there would be dry buffing.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


No that is not what he said, he said put 3 blobs and spread it over a 2x2 area the pad will then be covered. He also stated in a earlier post that he would of sprayed the pad first. Again something you would of known if you had ever tried the method.


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> disagree there is no way you can perfectly clean a pad without liquid and detergent polish does stick to a pad, a chemist will back that up, and on that front they know far more than any detailer. As for air cleaning no thanks not what you want really imo.
> I think if you check back you came storming in telling everyone that there doing it wrong, even though you havent tried the method or the pad conditioner. I have tried it your way and it doesn't suit me. you cant say the same, your just guessing and taking what you have been told as gospel.try the method before you diss it


Before I "diss" it... Right.

Well sorry if I'd rather listen to the pros at the top of their game over some guy on the internet.

Sure, spurring a pad won't get rid of everything in it, that's not what I'm saying, bit it definitely will remove the worst of it, which will help get a better finish. Disagree all you like, but it sounds like you've not even tried. Again, I'd rather listen to the top names in detailing and all the pros I've spoken to, who all agree to regularly clean the pad, than you who seems to want to go against everyone's advice. Working clean will always be better, and both air and a brush work well to remove the worst of the crap on a pad after each set. You can see it coming off, so it's easy to see that it's working.

Also, I don't see how you think detergent helps with removing chunks of clear coat. Unless you think that detergent dissolves clear coat?!! A brush or air will do a better job of dislodging it.

I also didn't come storming in telling everyone they were wrong - somebody asked about something and I responded. You were the one that started following me around in multiple threads trying to disagree with everything I was saying.

If priming a pad the way I describe is what the top guys recommend, then I'm happy to go with that than waste money on funny sprays.

That is, until I see proof that these sprays offer a better result than the method that all the top detailers recommend, or even just proof that they do something more than a water spritz would do.

So far I see no proof of either.

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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> No that is not what he said, he said put 3 blobs and spread it over a 2x2 area the pad will then be covered. He also stated in a earlier post that he would of sprayed the pad first. Again something you would of known if you had ever tried the method.


So I have to have tried pad conditioners to know what the guy meant in his post? Right, nice logic there.

I disagree, I think he was talking about a dry pad with 3 or 4 blobs on it, and saying that after going over the panel the face of the pad would then have a coating of compound/polish on it.

My point was that in the meantime dry buffing occurs. In the scenario above, that would be correct. He didn't mention pad sprays at the time, though you seem to have taken that it was inferred.

Either way it seems you're just trying to pick a fight now over semantics. Not sure why you're getting so angry just because I don't want to waste money on a pad conditioner. If you like it then great, keep using it. Makes no difference to me what you waste your money on.

I'm happy to continue going with what the biggest names in detailing recommend. I'd rather follow what they recommend and what the pro detailers I've met with have advised to do, even if you want to claim that there are loads of problems with their methods. They're at the top of their game for a reason, and I doubt it's from getting poor results.

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## cheekymonkey (Mar 15, 2008)

MBRuss said:


> Before I "diss" it... Right.
> 
> Well sorry if I'd rather listen to the pros at the top of their game over some guy on the internet.
> 
> ...


And how will you ever get the proof if your not willing to try it :wall:. You are welcome to follow who every toy want, but there are also pro's that dont use the method you are on about. you seem to be going around in circles and constantly going on about the americans dont use it so it must be ruddish. As i have said come back when you have had the decency to of at least tried the method and the snake oil, suppose that will be when 1 of your 3 amigos try it. Till then i'm out:wave:


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

cheekymonkey said:


> And how will you ever get the proof if your not willing to try it :wall:. You are welcome to follow who every toy want, but there are also pro's that dont use the method you are on about. you seem to be going around in circles and constantly going on about the americans dont use it so it must be ruddish. As i have said come back when you have had the decency to of at least tried the method and the snake oil, suppose that will be when 1 of your 3 amigos try it. Till then i'm out:wave:


Go on then, if you're so sure that I'll love it so much then send me a bottle - I've never said I'm unwilling to try it. Quite the opposite. However, I'm not wasting my own money on what I heavily suspect amounts to little more than a bottle of scented water.

It's very telling that none of the big brand professional compound and polish manufacturers make a "pad conditioner" despite also making pads.

I looked to try to find any research that provides any scrap of proof that any of these pad sprays actually work and provide a better finish or any of the other benefits they claim, but couldn't find anything, so it's not like I haven't tried. There doesn't appear to be any comparison testing, or proof of any kind. All there is are wild claims on the bottle.

I also asked a well known UK detailer for his thoughts and he echoed mine exactly. Reading the Chemical Guys blurb, he suspects it's mostly water mixed with Limonene in their pad conditioner, with perhaps some surfactants, and advised that adding such a spray to a modern non-water based polish would likely just cause a mess and not help anything.

He did say that it could be helpful on older water-based polishes, but no moreso than a quick spritz of plain old water, and only to extend the working time of the polish, not as a "pad conditioner".

Still, I doubt we're ever going to agree on the best way to prime a pad. I do think it'd be beneficial for an unbiased party to do proper back-to-back testing though and come to a de-finitive answer. It's all too easy for less trustworthy detailing companies to invent a new "must have" product that makes big claims without any proof that it does what it claims to do.

(P.S. why is de-finitive starred out like a swear word when you write it properly without the hyphen?!)

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## GSVHammer (Feb 7, 2009)

I have seen a video, think it was Brian from Apex detailing where he applied his polish on a yellow Meg’s pad then spread it over his working area on the panel. He then applied the polish, 4 small amounts on a dry pad.
Then when the pad was on the panel it was never running dry on its first pass.
Maybe something to try?


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

Prime or not to prime with foam pads, it's your own choice as it doesn't make one bit of difference if you ask m.

But I do prime my MF cutting pads and I never had an issue with them clogging up, it's where your own technique comes into place when using them.

Each to their own on this subject


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