# LSP Looks - a list



## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

Having started some months ago with detailing, the most difficult thing, I found, was getting the LSP that is most to my taste. I'm fairly picky about looks (that I studied photography for a few years at an art academy may have something to do with that).

I think it's not easy to describe how an LSP looks on a car. Terms like "wetness," "depth," and such, don't quite tell me what I want to know. It was a step forward to me, when I learned that Polished Bliss has this system to describe LSP looks, in terms of _Reflectivity_, _Glossiness_, _Richness_, _Flake Pop_, and _Slickness_. They have a scale from 1 to 5 points for each, that they rate all the LSP's they sell on. Myself, I seem to be mostly interested in what they call "Richness." Many people on detailing forums actually seem to mostly be interested in the "Reflectivity" and "Gloss" parts, and post reflection photos, but not photos of how the entire car looks.

However, this also didn't yet tell me what I wanted to know. So, I started collecting lots of car photos from various detailing forums, sorting them according to LSP. Thus, I'm able to compare several photos for a particular LSP, and see how it generally looks on cars. At this moment, I have over 1300 photos in my collection, for over 100 different LSP's. So, now I have a fairly good idea about how several LSP's look on cars (on photos, at least), and I also developed some theories about how LSP's work to give a certain look.

The differences in looks seem to come from differences in the angles how light is reflected, and this shows mainly in how three dimensional shapes look. You see it best on photos of entire cars, where all the shapes show in a clear way.

The differences in reflection angles make that shapes look "sharper" or "less sharp" than on normal paint. Everyone will interpret these differences in different ways, but I believe many will interpret the "sharper" looking shapes as "cold" and the "less sharp" looking shapes as "warm."

The general idea seems to be, that carnauba waxes tend to look warm and sealants colder. Some exceptions are modern sealants like C.Quartz and Gtechniq C2, that actually do look warm, if a bit "sterile." This "sterile" look of sealants, I think, is due to their tendency to reflect light in one particular single way. Waxes are more of a mixture of various oils and other materials, that all reflect light in slightly different ways, which creates a "rich" look. Manufacturers can make a blend of various materials to create, or should we say "compose," a certain look, that is rich, or not so rich. In this composition lies the main difference in looks between LSP's.

It's my impression that many brands have one particular look for their LSP's, where they have several variations of. Those variations may be due to variations in durability, where the materials that give the durability apparently make for a cooler looking variation. Dodo Juice, on the contrary is a brand that has several quite distinctive looking LSP's.

Here's a list of LSP's, with a short description of how I see them, ordered from "sharp" or "cold" looks, to "warm."

*Poorboy's World Natty's Blue* - Hardly warm
*Collinite 476s* - Slightly warm
*Collinite's 845* - Slightly warm
*Meguiar's Mirror Glaze 16* - Slightly warm
*Bilt-Hamber Autobalm* - Slightly warm
*Autoglym High Definition wax* - Slightly warm, somewhat open
*Swissvax Shield* - Slightly warm, open and rich
*Finish Kare 1000p* - Slightly warm
*Dodo Juice Supernatural* - Stylish, fresh, but also a bit warm, makes me think of convertibles
*Dodo Juice Skull Candy* - Warm and scary
*Dodo Juice Purple Haze / Blue Velvet* - Sporty
*Blackfire Midnight Sun Ivory wax* - Warm and firm
*Collinite 915* - Warm
*Victoria Concours* - Warm and smooth
*Lusso Oro* - Warm and somewhat rich
*Menzerna Powerlock* - Robust, warm and glassy
*Gtechniq C2* - Warm and futuristic
*Zymöl Vintage* - Slick and warm
*C.Quartz* - Warm and glassy
*Swissvax Onyx* - Open, warm and rich
*Raceglaze 55* - Warm and rounded
*P21s/R222 Concours* - Nicely warm
*Dodo Juice Orange Crush / Banana Armour / Light Fantastic / Diamond White* - Warm and soft
*Migliore Original* - Laid-back and warm

I found that it is quite possible to misjudge the look that an LSP gives to a car, due to how it was photographed.

When photographing outside, with no sunshine at all, cameras may increase the contrast of the photo, so that it doesn't look so dull. This actually gives the impression that the shapes of the car look more sharp and colder than they actually are. Cameras can also increase the amount of color in pictures. I found that pictures I made of my own car, made it look quite some glossier and warmer than it actually was, like as if it did have a glaze underneath the wax, which it hadn't.

Warm colors, like from the paint or, for instance, reflections from the twilight sun, can make the LSP look warmer than it actually is. Only after I had bought Lusso Oro wax, did I find out that I had judged it to be warmer than it actually is, because several of the photos I had collected for it where with cars photographed in the twilight sun.

People may photograph the car from angles that make it look a certain way that they want. Or the cars are looking a particular way, which can make you think that it's also the LSP that looks that way. I noticed that while the pictures that I have with Menzerna Powerlock give the impression that it is a "robust" looking LSP, this is actually also the character of the cars themselves on the photos.

Then, you can have a particular idea of how an LSP should look, that influences how you see it. I feel that Swissvax Onyx on black cars looks a bit like onyx gem stones. But is this because that is actually the case, or because of the name of this wax?

At the end of the day, you see how an LSP looks after you have put it on a car. Photos and descriptions are only a surrogate. But, you'd like to know what you're buying before you do.


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

Sorry mate, appreciate the effort put into this but thats just gibberish imo, no offence intended:thumb:


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

I would appreciate it if you would explain what it is you disagree with.


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

Just to confirm, these descriptions are based on photo's of other peoples cars that you haven't seen in the flesh?

Or have I read that wrong?


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## patonbmw (Nov 23, 2008)

I dont think supernatural is a warm looking wax- It is Sharp and clinical in my eyes (Not that, that is bad I love it)


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

Eddy said:


> Just to confirm, these descriptions are based on photo's of other peoples cars that you haven't seen in the flesh?
> 
> Or have I read that wrong?


The descriptions of the LSP's that I have tried myself, are obviously based on my observations of how my own car looked in them (and an experiment of 5 bands of different waxes on a bin).

When I started out, I initially put Mothers FX Synwax on my car, and I was struck at how cold it looked (which I didn't like). So, I put a layer of Dodo Juice Orange Crush over that, which definitely made the finish of my car look warm. When this finish faded, I put Migliore Original on my car (choice based on photos), and this made the car look different again, consistent with what I had seen on photos, even though I didn't like the effect on my car.

Going from these very clear experiences, I decided to collect photos of cars with known LSP's. I could definitely see the same things happening on the photos, as I had seen on my car, even though less clearly.

I have not had time to put other waxes on my car yet (I have AG HD, Lusso Oro and SV Onyx), but I have put those on a bin (over some SRP layers), and I am seeing mostly what I expected from the photos.


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## Jai (Mar 16, 2010)

patonbmw said:


> I dont think supernatural is a warm looking wax- It is Sharp and clinical in my eyes (Not that, that is bad I love it)


+1 to that, definitely a sharp look in my eyes! I really like it.


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## Prism Detailing (Jun 8, 2006)

I think a few are out, is this created from personal experience ?

Also descriptions like "sporty" "scary" "futuristic" and "stylish" is confusing me and how can you compaire Supernatural to a convertable ?

Im not trying to critisise, you have put effort into creating this but I think your terminology may confuse many people.

I think if you created a list of "wet" and "warm" would have been easier.

But this is very subjective, as it will be your own interpritation.


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

Ewald said:


> The descriptions of the LSP's that I have tried myself, are obviously based on my observations of how my own car looked in them (and an experiment of 5 bands of different waxes on a bin).
> 
> When I started out, I initially put Mothers FX Synwax on my car, and I was struck at how cold it looked (which I didn't like). So, I put a layer of Dodo Juice Orange Crush over that, which definitely made the finish of my car look warm. When this finish faded, I put Migliore Original on my car (choice based on photos), and this made the car look different again, consistent with what I had seen on photos, even though I didn't like the effect on my car.
> 
> ...


Fair play, Could you possibly just post a select few of your photo's, it would interest me especially if I could notice a difference.

Just for interests sake, if we had 5 cars lined up, all identical and prepped the same, but used 5 different waxes, do you think you could identify them based on characteristics? The reason I ask is this exact test was carried out on here a few years back with 5 brand new black Corsa's I believe and no one could tell which was which.


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

Prism Detailing said:


> I think a few are out, is this created from personal experience ?
> 
> Also descriptions like "sporty" "scary" "futuristic" and "stylish" is confusing me and how can you compaire Supernatural to a convertable ?
> 
> ...


Yes, this is very much from my personal experience, and yes, it is subjective, although I have tried (a bit) to use terms that I thought others might appreciate too. I know that many people like to use the term "wet," but that actually doesn't mean so much to me, as it's not what I'm looking for. I can appreciate that the descriptions that I prefer, won't mean much to others, and the other way around, and that's fine.

The descriptions I used for the Dodo Juice waxes, partly come from my theory that they actually designed waxes for particular kinds of cars, that have particular feels. So perhaps they created Supernatural to have the "convertable" feel (stylish, fresh wind in your hair), and the waxes for dark colors to have a bit of an aggressive "sporty" feel. Perhaps Skull Candy was actually an experiment of how it would look if you combine the chemicals of Red Mist with those of Hard Candy, and hey, it seemed like Halloween!


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

Eddy said:


> Fair play, Could you possibly just post a select few of your photo's, it would interest me especially if I could notice a difference.
> 
> Just for interests sake, if we had 5 cars lined up, all identical and prepped the same, but used 5 different waxes, do you think you could identify them based on characteristics? The reason I ask is this exact test was carried out on here a few years back with 5 brand new black Corsa's I believe and no one could tell which was which.


I was just going to refer to this thread with the black Corsa's, when I read on and saw you referring to it. I have these photos in my collection. One of the things that with these photos interferes with how you see the effect of the LSP, is the reflections of clouds. I for some time misjudged Collinite 915 to be warmer than it actually is, because of that.

But, let's use some of the pictures of this test as an example. I'd like to simplify things a bit, and have only two distinctive looking waxes, AG High Definition and SV Best of Show. To me, the distinction is clear, when I look at the following photos:

*1.*









*2.*









Which is which?


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## patonbmw (Nov 23, 2008)

I prefer 2... but the sun helps a lot as it is clearly a lot sunnier in photo 2 than 1 by looking at the shadow


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

I prefer #1 it looks warmer and less clinical.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Interesting thread, but I take photos as a grain of salt. I know I can't capture the true look of any lsp I use. I also find sealants look better in photos, but for me that's not so much the case in real life.


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## Mike_T (Aug 2, 2010)

On modern cars I prefer glassy look of sealants, but for classic cars the depth and smoothness of carnauba is the right choice for me.

The pictures abowe seriously lack quality. No one can seriously evaluate a finish on these pictures...


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

patonbmw said:


> I prefer 2... but the sun helps a lot as it is clearly a lot sunnier in photo 2 than 1 by looking at the shadow


True, the sun and the reflections of the clouds does make a difference. That's why I prefer to see a lot of photos, in different circumstances, to get an impression. I think it's all a lot clearer when you can see a real car, that you can walk around, that you know how it looks without LSP.


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

Thats the problem, yes those two photos are at the same angle but the light is completely different, I mean look at the wheels in both pictures, they almost look like different colours due to the difference in shadows.

My take on this subject in general is yes, some waxes give off ever so minutely different looks and I'm convinced my dads car look at its best with some megs #16 compared to anything else I have used ...BUT....if you did a direct 50/50 with any other wax I very very much doubt I could tell a difference side by side.


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

Ewald said:


> True, the sun and the reflections of the clouds does make a difference. That's why I prefer to see a lot of photos, in different circumstances, to get an impression. I think it's all a lot clearer when you can see a real car, that you can walk around, that you know how it looks without LSP.


So could you possibly post lets say 5 pics of different cars with one wax and 5 pics of different cars with another wax, preferably one with quite dramatically different looks to see if we can get some consistancy etc

If this comes across as me challenging you it really _really_ isn't supposed to be, I'm genuinely interested in this.


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## d7ve_b (Jul 1, 2010)

IMO this thread just adds extra confusion to an already subjective subject matter. In my view, only comment on LSP's you've used/seen in person and try to compare products when used on the same car (where possible), this way you rule out some of the many variables.


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

I think its an interesting topic to be honest and to be fair to the guy he has used the waxes stated in the OP.

I still have my reservations as to the difference in looks but will happily be proved wrong.

After all, this is an internet forum, we're all here to learn an exchange opinions etc, its sometimes good to discuss these sensitive subjects etc


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

Eddy said:


> So could you possibly post lets say 5 pics of different cars with one wax and 5 pics of different cars with another wax, preferably one with quite dramatically different looks to see if we can get some consistancy etc


Because I have lots of pictures, I could do that, however, I don't have permission for that from the respective car owners, detailers and photographers, and I'd like to be repectful of that. I'm trying to think of a way to get around that.

Perhaps I could just refer to threads on this forum that have pictures of cars with particular LSP's?

Anyone a better idea?


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

Fair play, any chance of seeing you car with a few different LSP's or even better if you have any shots of your car wearing 2 or more waxes side by side or anything like that?


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

I commend what you are trying to do Ewald but disagree with some of your descriptions, unfortunately. It’s in the eye of the beholder to some extent and don't forget the placebo effect with some products. 

However, I do feel that not enough emphasis is placed on ‘looks’ these days. With the advent of all the new age nano sealants and Si02 coatings the emphasis seems to be on durability and the looks are rarely described or discussed. How many serious detailers will leave these products on for the full 12/18 months that they supposedly protect for? The only advantage I see with some of them is the self cleaning attribute over the winter months.

Each to their own though and an interesting topic!

Alan W


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

Eddy said:


> Fair play, any chance of seeing you car with a few different LSP's or even better if you have any shots of your car wearing 2 or more waxes side by side or anything like that?


I did make a few photos of my car wearing DJ Orange Crush and Migliore Original, however I realized later that my camera had changed the looks quite a lot, by making alterations to color and contrast. These photos don't give a fair impression of how these waxes look. (I've changed the settings on my camera since then.)


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

Just for whatever's sake I found some wax tests on this site that are worth reading:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=173105&highlight=wax+test

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=183591&highlight=wax+test

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=141884&highlight=wax+test

It would seem that there was no huge difference in looks in any of the tests looks wise, the beading and sheeting varied massively but thats not what we're discussing here so is irrelevant.

And finally DaveKG's thoughts on that exact test with the Corsa's. Now maybe not everyone will agree with his opinions, but we have to appreciate that Dave is very respected on this site and he has used pretty much everything on the market in regards to LSP's:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=79952&highlight=wax+test


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

I'm not sure if this qualifies as a good example, but anyway: Have you noticed how cars you see on the road look different when they're wet from rain? I think that the differences between quite distinctive looking waxes is of a similar magnitude as between a wet car and one that's dry.


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

Eddy said:


> Just for whatever's sake I found some wax tests on this site that are worth reading:


As I said in my opening post, I believe that the looks of a wax mainly show in the way that shapes look. The problem with many wax tests, is that they're performed on bonnets (for practical reasons), which don't have much shape, as they're usually almost flat.

What you can see in reflection shots of bonnets, is how things reflected look. This gives a bit of an indication, at least on well prepped paint. So, that in one of the tests that you linked to, everyone was saying that they couldn't see a difference between the 4 waxes on the bonnet, may have something to do with that only a white ceiling was reflected in it.


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## Alex1984 (Jan 15, 2009)

different waxes rarely look different in any light and i bet it would be near impossible to tell the 2 apart. I buy waxes on ease of use, smell, durablility, price and the company. The reason why different waxes look different is all down to the lighting (especially in photos as they capture 1000x more light in detail than our eyes) viewing a car with supernatural on it will look completely different from one minute to the next especially in a photo. The quality of any wax is only as good as the paint to which is it applied...granted some waxes might add something to the finish like Clearkote moose wax being super wet looking but really they are not that noticable and all down to personal preference and you would be hard pushed to find anyone who can identify waxes just on their look in a 90's "You Bet" style challenge. I want to buy some Zymol Glasur but i dont think it is £100 beacuse it looks and better than nattys blue it is just the fact that it may last a little longer on the paint and will give that special feeling when using it...bit like a shirt you can buy from New Look and then one from Gucci...

You will have people saying this wax is warm and then this wax is wet...but in all honestly the light and paint condition play 99.999999% of this.


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

In my post #11, photo 1 was the Corsa wearing SV Best of Show, photo 2 it's AG High Definition.


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

My opinion is that differences are evident, but not after initial application, and you'll only see them or notice them on your own vehicle, over a period of time.

Some are obvious, like comparing says something like Vics Concours to something like Zaino on silver, I believe you could tell which was which, but they are very different products.

'Living with' a premium wax teaches you a lot about it. Vintage or Glasur for example, retain that 'just waxed look' for much longer than most decent waxes. That's what you pay for. Differences after application, especially after machine polishing, will always be minimal!


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

Ewald said:


> I would appreciate it if you would explain what it is you disagree with.


 I just dont get the descriptions of the waxes in your research from photos alone, its seems almost all are warm and that is not the case when viewing some of the waxes in the flesh and as said previously ,sporty,scary reminds you of a convertible are not terms i have associated with the finish of an lsp before.
Dont get me wrong i am not knocking what you are trying to achieve ,i just feel that it carrys more weight if these were observations from actual contact with said finishes and not through photos.
I trust this is something that you are thinking of doing in the future as you raise interesting points and again dont feel im criticising what you have done just the way it was done through photography.
Also a valid point was raised in this thread regarding finish being overlooked in modern lsp' for durability and clinical finishes,couldnt agree more:thumb:


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## chrisc (Jun 15, 2008)

bilt hamber hydrawax glassy love the stuff


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Very informative post and different folk want different looks.
The polishing bliss guide is great.
As has been stated nothing can truly be said to how a finish looks as you say the angle of light the atmosphere the time of day the camera settings have they altered the photo is the photo been viewed on a fully colour calibrated monitor as mine is.
A heavy swirly car can look pristine dependent of angle and light, if the camera has a polarizing filter the car could show super reflections or none dependent on adjustment.
Still a great post but is all subjective.

This Polo is covered is Swirls as previous owner only ever went to the auto car wash.

All pics taken at same time simply a mater of a few seconds between.

Polariser Shots.

First Near Full Polarisation










No Polarisation.










Side Reflections.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

'warm and futuristic' :tumbleweed:
don't really see the point of this thread tbh - we all see things differently, hence one person likes one particular wax, others won't


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

robinho said:


> I just dont get the descriptions of the waxes in your research from photos alone, its seems almost all are warm and that is not the case when viewing some of the waxes in the flesh and as said previously ,sporty,scary reminds you of a convertible are not terms i have associated with the finish of an lsp before.
> Dont get me wrong i am not knocking what you are trying to achieve ,i just feel that it carrys more weight if these were observations from actual contact with said finishes and not through photos.
> I trust this is something that you are thinking of doing in the future as you raise interesting points and again dont feel im criticising what you have done just the way it was done through photography.
> Also a valid point was raised in this thread regarding finish being overlooked in modern lsp' for durability and clinical finishes,couldnt agree more:thumb:


I think it's not simple to put into words how to describe the looks of an LSP, or the gloss aspects of paint or clear coat, for that matter. There simply are not much words in languages that I know that describe all the nuances of gloss that I have noticed over time, on my own car, or others.

That is why, when you do want to describe things you see, you sometimes have to invent ways of describing that. This is something that I had some training in at art academy. I'm perfectly aware that the descriptions that I made do not cater to everyone's views or a common way of using words. But that doesn't mean they're useless or wrong, it just takes some effort to try and see what I mean (and it's fine if you don't want to make that effort).

As to my use of the words "warm" and "cold," perhaps it would help if you read "cold" where I wrote "slightly warm?"


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

one thing ive always wanted to start a thread about but have never done it for fear of upsetting people is what you as a person actually see through your own eyes , if you wear glasses do you see a totally different perspective to the rest of us , your looking through a pain of glass thats a barrier over visual sight the same as contact lenses , if you dont have 20/20 vision would you not see the finer detail that some do but would never actually know because what you see is what you presume everyone sees and do i see reds brighter than anyone else because everyone has a mild form of colourblindness and have worked with people in the print who never even knew that browns and fawns existed side by side because they visually thought one was greyer than it should be , what im trying to say is what your seeing with your descriptions being warm , slightly warm etc may be a million miles away from what i see.
I often look at black cars ive done with say zymol Hd Cleanse and something like Destiny two products i feel and visually see have an almost oily effect to them like you see in a fairy liquid bubble , i can visually see this on various angles of a car and have showed this to customers who have commented exactly the same what colours they are seeing so to speak , others ive shown have said it looks black end of and havent even the slightest clue what im on about but if my eyes can visually see it then they must pick up something others havent. My vision is 20/20 out of interest and have worked with colours for 25 years so colour to me is important and am eye tested every year.
i hope i havent offended anybody but for me its something that i feel is relevant when looking at something so critical that an average person wouldnt even look at twice.


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## VIPER (May 30, 2007)

Heavenly said:


> one thing ive always wanted to start a thread about but have never done it for fear of upsetting people is what you as a person actually see through your own eyes , if you wear glasses do you see a totally different perspective to the rest of us , your looking through a pain of glass thats a barrier over visual sight the same as contact lenses , if you dont have 20/20 vision would you not see the finer detail that some do but would never actually know because what you see is what you presume everyone sees and do i see reds brighter than anyone else because everyone has a mild form of colourblindness and have worked with people in the print who never even knew that browns and fawns existed side by side because they visually thought one was greyer than it should be , what im trying to say is what your seeing with your descriptions being warm , slightly warm etc may be a million miles away from what i see.
> I often look at black cars ive done with say zymol Hd Cleanse and something like Destiny two products i feel and visually see have an almost oily effect to them like you see in a fairy liquid bubble , i can visually see this on various angles of a car and have showed this to customers who have commented exactly the same what colours they are seeing so to speak , others ive shown have said it looks black end of and havent even the slightest clue what im on about but if my eyes can visually see it then they must pick up something others havent. My vision is 20/20 out of interest and have worked with colours for 25 years so colour to me is important and am eye tested every year.
> i hope i havent offended anybody but for me its something that i feel is relevant when looking at something so critical that an average person wouldnt even look at twice.


I don't think you'll have offended anyone there Marc  and the points raised are very interesting. I have mild red/green colour blindness for example and so obviously I don't see some colours the same as anyone else. I don't think any two people see _exactly_ the same thing, and of course there's no way of checking or verifying that one way or the other, so as you say, all comments on here about this LSP being 'warmer' than others or looking more vibrant on reds or whatever, can only ever be totally subjective. Interesting.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

Viper said:


> I don't think you'll have offended anyone there Marc  and the points raised are very interesting. I have mild red/green colour blindness for example and so obviously I don't see some colours the same as anyone else. I don't think any two people see _exactly_ the same thing, and of course there's no way of checking or verifying that one way or the other, so as you say, all comments on here about this LSP being 'warmer' than others or looking more vibrant on reds or whatever, can only ever be totally subjective. Interesting.


Thankyou..


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## Roy (Jan 17, 2007)

Totally agree with you guys, this kinda reminds me of my time when I used to work in HiFi, and some of the discussions I had with engineers about the ultimate sound and the compromises they had to engineer in to keep most customers happy. I never met a HiFi buff that had his hearing checked regularly for example.

I think we’re all very different in the way we see and hear things! After all that’s what make us human after all.

Roy.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Ewald said:


> I did make a few photos of my car wearing DJ Orange Crush and Migliore Original, however I realized later that my camera had changed the looks quite a lot, by making alterations to color and contrast. These photos don't give a fair impression of how these waxes look. (I've changed the settings on my camera since then.)


That's what I find. I can never capture the look. And if the true look can't be captured, what's the point of trying to compare photo's?


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

type[r]+ said:


> That's what I find. I can never capture the look. And if the true look can't be captured, what's the point of trying to compare photo's?


Because it's better than nothing.

Not all cameras do make alterations to the look. And, something does show in photos, perhaps not so clearly in a single photo, or even 5 photos, but when you have 20 or so, in a larger collection, you do start to see similarities in looks. It's definitely not perfect, but in a test I did lately of some waxes I bought on a bin, I found that they did look like my impression of them from photos.

I started to collect these photos, because I want to know what looks I'll be buying before I do. As not many manufacturers offer smaller sized pots, and not all shops offer the smaller sizes, it's going to be quite expensive to try out various waxes, if you only got a single car to do. (Praise to Dodo Juice, Lusso, Migliore, and Swissvax, as these do offer pots or kits at smaller sizes than the standard 200 ml or so.)

That people don't much talk about how LSP's actually look, on the various detailing forums, doesn't help either. That's understandable for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post (that is, it's hard to find good words, that others understand).

But because there's so little talk about looks, other than that an LSP looks "wet," or "good," people may start to think that there really are not much differences, so it's better to buy durable stuff, that's not too expensive. They may then notice that these cheaper LSP's don't add much to the finish, and are confirmed in this idea.

What these cheaper LSP's are good at, is sealing in or enhancing reflectivity (as it's called at the Polished Bliss website), or what you can call mirror shine, that's achieved by machine polishing. They do that, because these LSP's don't have much character (or what's called richness at Polished Bliss), as that actually diminishes the clarity (sharpness) of reflections. So, if your interest is mainly in reflectivity, which is quite understandable, as a mirror shine does look impressive, you may not even want a wax that has character, but you want a sealant.

But character is what I personally happen to be most interested in (what I've called looks).


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Ewald said:


> I would appreciate it if you would explain what it is you disagree with.


I don't disagree per se, however it would have been nice to also include some over the counter products as surely these have some kind of look to them also???
I suppose some lower cost products have a more glassy instant bling shine, and after a while the seasoned user favours the laid back classy natural shimmer that the more pricey products seem to feature :thumb:


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

Avanti said:


> I don't disagree per se, however it would have been nice to also include some over the counter products as surely these have some kind of look to them also???
> I suppose some lower cost products have a more glassy instant bling shine, and after a while the seasoned user favours the laid back classy natural shimmer that the more pricey products seem to feature :thumb:


Indeed, it would be interesting to compare the looks of, for instance, Turtlewax products with the detailing LSP's that we normally see. Unfortunately, I didn't find enough photos of such products to say something about how they look with some confidence. Perhaps that's because there's not much talk about them on detailing forums.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Ewald said:


> Indeed, it would be interesting to compare the looks of, for instance, Turtlewax products with the detailing LSP's that we normally see. Unfortunately, I didn't find enough photos of such products to say something about how they look with some confidence. Perhaps that's because there's not much talk about them on detailing forums.


Some of the best looks I have achieved have been with turlewax platinum paste lol! It darkens the paint a bit, looks deeeep as, but not 1/2 as wet as p21s concours. It makes me laugh every time I use it looking at the stack of my other expensive waxes! I'll have to pm you some comparisons on my Honda some day.


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## ercapoccia (Nov 14, 2008)

In my opinion photo is not a good way to value an lsp, there are too many variables involved that you can't actually compare. 
Even if you make all the picture with the same camera, with the same light (artificial) at the same condition (pressure, temperature, umidity), the same paint you can't compare in a scientific way.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

ercapoccia said:


> In my opinion photo is not a good way to value an lsp, there are too many variables involved that you can't actually compare.
> Even if you make all the picture with the same camera, with the same light (artificial) at the same condition (pressure, temperature, umidity), *the same paint you can't compare in a scientific way.*


Why not?
It is better than just words, or dismissing a product due to brand or supplier (which is the spoiler for me in the original post)
As the previous poster has reported, his TW platinum is featuring against many lower cost mail order competition and I have to agree, in another thread a poster finds that his SRP or UDS is comparable to some mail order only products.
Yes yes it is all down to opinion, so the majority rule, but I can't wondering how Noah must have felt smug that day :speechles


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## MAXI-MILAN (Oct 26, 2008)

Imho different waxes/glazes will give a different final finish . for example if you use P21s concours wax with p21s prewax you will get very bright glassy wet shine , but if you use p21s concours wax with megs #7 or RMG you will get warm look .


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

Pointless thread IMO, you can't just list a load of products and expect people to be able to relate to the finish that you think they give. Everyone sees things different.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

pete5570 said:


> Pointless thread IMO, you can't just list a load of products and expect people to be able to relate to the finish that you think they give. Everyone sees things different.


heh heh , he can and did 
It also depends on how people empathise with those descriptions, are people going to want to pay a premium for a warm look ? 
I suppose the author was trying to clarify (or justify) the premiums for a higher priced wax/lsp .
The buy for the smell does not wash with me, I can just stick a wrigleys juicy fruit over the end of my nostrils and wax away with a cheap stinky wax


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

I would be interested in how others would describe the looks of LSP's they know.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Ewald said:


> I would be interested in how others would describe the looks of LSP's they know.


Well you asked....
I find the lower priced mail order offer a bling instant psuedo shine often glassy similar to higher priced over the counter products.
Some like you mention RG 55 offer a look that is wet shiny, like still water on a panel, the times the looks come into their own is on a summer evening near dusk, or under a forecourt lighting :thumb:


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## chillly (Jun 25, 2009)

Avanti said:


> heh heh , he can and did
> It also depends on how people empathise with those descriptions, are people going to want to pay a premium for a warm look ?
> I suppose the author was trying to clarify (or justify) the premiums for a higher priced wax/lsp .
> The buy for the smell does not wash with me, I can just stick a wrigleys juicy fruit over the end of my nostrils and wax away with a cheap stinky wax


The buy for the smell does not wash with me, I can just stick a wrigleys juicy fruit over the end of my nostrils and wax away with a cheap stinky wax

:lol::lol: Funny as you like:thumb:


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

There is so much that affects how a LPS looks though, from the colour of the car to the glaze and paint prep to how much orange peel is in the paint to start with.

Also you cannot judge from a picture the visual qualities of a wax of sealant. With photoshop you can easily make the paint in the same picture look warm, cold, glassy, wet, etc as you feel. I have always tried to replicate what I saw when I took the picture, but I don't think anyone would be able to name the LSPs used in these three pictures (without searching for threads by me:lol: ). Even confidently saying weather it is a wax or sealant would be a struggle. Number 3 looks very warm so that would suggest it's a carnauba wax, but the sun was setting and it was a lot darker in real life than the picture looks, so which is it? Of course I know, but I couldn't tell if they were not my pictures.

*1*









*2*









*3*









*4*


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

jem said:


> There is so much that affects how a LPS looks though, from the colour of the car to the glaze and paint prep to how much orange peel is in the paint to start with.
> 
> Also you cannot judge from a picture the visual qualities of a wax of sealant. With photoshop you can easily make the paint in the same picture look warm, cold, glassy, wet, etc as you feel. I have always tried to replicate what I saw when I took the picture, but I don't think anyone would be able to name the LSPs used in these three pictures (without searching for threads by me:lol: ). Even confidently saying weather it is a wax or sealant would be a struggle. Number 3 looks very warm so that would suggest it's a carnauba wax, but the sun was setting and it was a lot darker in real life than the picture looks, so which is it? Of course I know, but I couldn't tell if they were not my pictures.
> 
> ...


The picture of the black BM looks like a wax on it to me, the other pics look enhanced and wearing sealant or budget waxes


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

Avanti said:


> The picture of the black BM looks like a wax on it to me, the other pics look enhanced and wearing sealant or budget waxes


I'm impressed, well sort of. The BMW is Dodo Supernatural, as is pic 3.

1 and 4 are Opti-Seal, and taken on my phone, so not the sharpest of pics.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

jem said:


> I'm impressed, well sort of. The BMW is Dodo Supernatural, as is pic 3.
> 
> 1 and 4 are Opti-Seal, and taken on my phone, so not the sharpest of pics.


And I honestly did not look back through the threads, the £50 type waxes do possses a look that the lower cost ones do not , whether some feel it is value for money can be argued forever, for me it is worth the extra £10, why £10? becuse many add to their £20 wax a £20 top up spray.


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

Avanti said:


> And I honestly did not look back through the threads, the £50 type waxes do possses a look that the lower cost ones do not , whether some feel it is value for money can be argued forever, for me it is worth the extra £10, why £10? becuse many add to their £20 wax a £20 top up spray.


I agree, you can normally see the difference between a £20 wax and a £50 wax. Of course there are exceptions to the rule. I'm not so sure that a £500 wax is all that much better than a £50 wax, but sadly I don't have any £500 wax to put it to the test myself.

It also depends on the car. I loved Swissvax Onyx on my black Soarer, but I don't like it on the MR-2. I know Onyx is designed for black cars, but while it looked stunning on the Soarer, it looks a bit flat on the MR-2.

Contrary to a couple of posts in this thread I find Supernatural to be warm and pulls out a slight purple in the paint on the MR-2 and I love the look Supernatural gives, but I also love the clinical glass like look of Opti-Seal. Quite different looks and I like them both.

More than anything, I find it amazing the difference a layer less than 25 billionths of a metre thick can make to the look of a car.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

jem said:


> I agree, you can normally see the difference between a £20 wax and a £50 wax. Of course there are exceptions to the rule. * I'm not so sure that a £500 wax is all that much better than a £50 wax, but sadly I don't have any £500 wax to put it to the test myself.*


I do but I won't, if I could get the money back for what I spent on waxes I would probably go for BOS (I don't have BOS or tried it) and Simoniz original or 3m showshine or FK2685 for everbody elses car, and worry no more over what any other product may offer.
and I would still have change in my pocket 
It's the £10-£20 here and £10-£20 there where the unnecessary expense arrives


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

jem said:


> ... With photoshop you can easily make the paint in the same picture look warm, cold, glassy, wet, etc as you feel. ...


I'm amazed that it is still possible to see something about the finish, as Avanti did, in these pictures, as contrast is _very_ high. Are these pictures straight out of your phone, or did you edit them in Photoshop?


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Ewald said:


> I'm amazed that it is still possible to see something about the finish, as Avanti did, in these pictures, as contrast is _very_ high. Are these pictures straight out of your phone, or did you edit them in Photoshop?


Perhaps I got lucky (although I have been succesful in other what wax posts )
I am surprised though if some cannot see a difference in the gloss on the BMW vs the MR2, someone had posted a red BMW with some posh wax on, and it is easy to tell (well to me) , like I mentioned in an earlier post, posh waxes seem to offer a still water reflection , that is what I see in the black BMW picture :thumb:


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## ilovepooma (Nov 3, 2009)

Good thread OP 

It does beg the question though, why buy anything other than 476 (for example) if there really is nothing in terms of how they look? 

I for one don't believe all that guff about buying a more expensive wax purely for the feel good factor, if that really is the case then I'm shortly to release a £2500 was I'm SURE you will love 

Like everything else in life I'm sure the law of diminishing returns applies here but is the collective opinion that a wax genuinely adds no looks to the final finish?


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

It does and Collonite is pants in my opinion. That should get the thread rolling.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

ilovepooma said:


> Good thread OP
> 
> It does beg the question though, why buy anything other than 476 (for example) if there really is nothing in terms of how they look?
> 
> ...


in that case, why don't we all drive round in bog standard cars with just the bare essentials, rather than buying nice cars and speccin' them up? same principle, it'll get you from a to b still but won't feel as special


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

-Kev- said:


> in that case, why don't we all drive round in bog standard cars with just the bare essentials, rather than buying nice cars and speccin' them up? same principle, it'll get you from a to b still but won't feel as special


Kev, I only got rid of my Maybach as folk kept accusing me of being rich


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## ilovepooma (Nov 3, 2009)

-Kev- said:


> in that case, why don't we all drive round in bog standard cars with just the bare essentials, rather than buying nice cars and speccin' them up? same principle, it'll get you from a to b still but won't feel as special


I know what you're saying but I disagree 

If I were to spend £8k on a Kia I certainly wouldn't expect the same level of performance and quality as spending £20k on a BMW.

I certainly wouldn't feel 'special' if the BMW offered the same level of performance as the Kia for the vast difference in purchase price.

I for one have no problem with buying expensive 'gubbins' that I sometimes don't particularly need, I would however have a problem if that wax I paid a great deal of money for offered no tangible benefit other than funky packaging and a nice smell.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Heavenly said:


> It does and Collonite is pants in my opinion. That should get the thread rolling.


LOL!


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## Ewald (Dec 12, 2010)

ilovepooma said:


> Good thread OP
> 
> It does beg the question though, why buy anything other than 476 (for example) if there really is nothing in terms of how they look?
> 
> ...


I suppose that opinions differ, but one thing that I read a lot on various forums, is that a finish is 90% preparation, and 10% from the LSP. To me, that sounds a lot like that an LSP really doesn't do so much, so you might just as well use the cheap but durable stuff.

Obviously, I don't agree with that. I do want to make it clear, though, that, if what you're interested in is reflectivity (mirror shine), than it is true for you. I do respect that. But it is not true for me.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

ilovepooma said:


> I know what you're saying but I disagree


You had it right when you said about law of diminishing returns, but LSP's are different in terms of looks and performance. How much you are prepared to pay for the difference is up to you! 

Some people like to feel special and have exclusive and unique products, and yes, some people are suckered into the "it cost more so it must be better" way of thinking. Some people also just like to experiment and compare just for the sake of doing so. For me, I could never justify anything over say 50 quid, not when there is that many top class waxes in that price range. Others justify the much higher priced waxes, because at the end of the day they have gone through and are over the experimental stage, and when it comes down to it, a tub of wax will last years. :thumb:


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Ewald said:


> I suppose that opinions differ, but one thing that I read a lot on various forums, is that a finish is 90% preparation, and 10% from the LSP. To me, that sounds a lot like that an LSP really doesn't do so much, so you might just as well use the cheap but durable stuff.
> 
> Obviously, I don't agree with that. I do want to make it clear, though, that, if what you're interested in is reflectivity (mirror shine), than it is true for you. I do respect that. But it is not true for me.





type[r]+ said:


> You had it right when you said about law of diminishing returns, but LSP's are different in terms of looks and performance. How much you are prepared to pay for the difference is up to you!
> 
> Some people like to feel special and have exclusive and unique products, and yes, some people are suckered into the "it cost more so it must be better" way of thinking. Some people also just like to experiment and compare just for the sake of doing so. For me, I could never justify anything over say 50 quid, not when there is that many top class waxes in that price range. Others justify the much higher priced waxes, because at the end of the day they have gone through and are over the experimental stage, and when it comes down to it, a tub of wax will last years. :thumb:


Jem kindly posted a few pics,and the finish on the Black BMW does look superior to the MR2 (IMO), I don't think it is just because it is an older car or different colour, the difference in the two cars would easily see me forking out the £30 difference


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Avanti said:


> Jem kindly posted a few pics,and the finish on the Black BMW does look superior to the MR2 (IMO), I don't think it is just because it is an older car or different colour, the difference in the two cars would easily see me forking out the £30 difference


And I would be the one "experimenting just for the sake of it" with a supernatural panel pot LOL!


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

Avanti said:


> Jem kindly posted a few pics,and the finish on the Black BMW does look superior to the MR2 (IMO)


That could be due to the BMW having the paint corrected by myself before the Supernatural was applied though. The MR-2 I haven't had time to do a full correction yet. It was resprayed in the summer, and so far I've only polished it by hand other than the near side panels which I have wet sanded and polished.

So what you're seeing in the BMW picture is freshly corrected paint with Supernatural as the LSP, and the MR-2 is the 'bodyshop' finish, some hologrames and a fair amount of orange peel, then polished by hand with SRP and Supernatural or Opti-Seal.

As I said, you can't read much if anything into pictures.

So, what LSP has been used on this Supra (ignore the flat looking bumper it had been resprayed and the finish/colour match was not great)?


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Mmmm shiny! Sealant? Looks nice either way!


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

jem said:


> That could be due to the BMW having the paint corrected by myself before the Supernatural was applied though. The MR-2 I haven't had time to do a full correction yet. It was resprayed in the summer, and so far I've only polished it by hand other than the near side panels which I have wet sanded and polished.
> 
> So what you're seeing in the BMW picture is freshly corrected paint with Supernatural as the LSP, and the MR-2 is the 'bodyshop' finish, some hologrames and a fair amount of orange peel, then polished by hand with SRP and Supernatural or Opti-Seal.
> 
> ...


heh heh am I the only one under test?
It's a difficult call, the rear quarter does look like a real wax but then the front looks like sealant, and looks a similar finish to TW Platinum precision wax with Platinum Gloss protection on, but as TW is a no no in many camps , if this was million pound drop live 60% of my money is going to go with the wax ?


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## st33ly (Aug 29, 2010)

Man thats wet


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

Truth be told there is no LSP on it at all. It had just been paint corrected and an IPA wipe down when that picture was taken.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

jem said:


> Truth be told there is no LSP on it at all. It had just been paint corrected and an IPA wipe down when that picture was taken.


heh heh , you didn't say there was a no product option 
But biased I think I done well in that one as I was not sure


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

Avanti said:


> heh heh , you didn't say there was a no product option
> But biased I think I done well in that one as I was not sure


Hehe i'll grant you that one


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

jem said:


> Hehe i'll grant you that one


The car in this thread is wearing 'posh' wax, I'm more impressed with the look of the panels than the car itself :thumb:


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

Avanti said:


> The car in this thread is wearing 'posh' wax, I'm more impressed with the look of the panels than the car itself :thumb:


Looks good, but you don't need a fancy wax to give those results, just plenty of prep work and a decent wax would give the same finish.


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## HeavenlyDetail (Sep 22, 2006)

pete5570 said:


> Looks good, but you don't need a fancy wax to give those results, just plenty of prep work and a decent wax would give the same finish.


unless in the flesh then im with Avanti


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