# Auto Finesse Tough Coat Query



## AbvRS (Aug 24, 2011)

Some guidance would be great... I've used tough coat on both my white Fabia vRS and black Mazda 5. Possibly unfairly, the fabia is the newer car so gets more pampering in the way of regular wax. The Mazda doesn't do quite as well on the wax front partly because it's so big and struggle for time.

Initially, application of tough coat gives a good finish, however my main issue is it doesn't seem to last long, just a couple of washes later and it looks like it is lacking protection.

I read somewhere on here it only needs a minute or two to cure before buffing off, is this where I'm going wrong? should I leave it on longer?

Any thoughts? Thanks


----------



## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

How do you mean its lacking protection. Being a sealant its going to be a good sheeter of water after a wash rather than a beader.


----------



## AbvRS (Aug 24, 2011)

After a couple of washes it doesn't bead or sheet much at all, looks like it has had any care or attention on it for 6-12 months. My question is am I leaving it on long enough or am wiping it off before it has had chance to do its stuff?

cheers


----------



## Ns1980 (Jun 29, 2011)

A few potential reasons - but no means the answer:

1) insufficient curing time?
2) incomplete coverage
3) application over an incompatible product

I've used TC a fair bit (!) and am a bit surprised you've had this experience?

Maybe pop another coat on?


----------



## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

As to an actual time I'm not so sure and a quick google hasn't really helped, nor AF's or polishedbliss site....

i did think though that you could see it flash to a slight haze and that was when you knew to buff off, perhaps a finger swipe test as per a wax?

I have also read that 3 layers are optimum with this sealant.

A minute or 2 does seem a little on the quick side though


----------



## AbvRS (Aug 24, 2011)

thanks for your thoughts, I think next time it will get left to cure a bit longer. hopefully that should help.


----------



## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)




----------



## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

and 2 or 3 coats!! :thumb:


----------



## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

I have feeling it's reacting to the previous application used, maybe another product., as said above ^^^ Incompatible product previously, so the Tough coat is not bonding properly to the paintwork and your not achieving the benefits and performance from the product.
Op have you stripped all the protection from the car, and used Tough coat on it's own ?

Best to stick with their range, such as Tripple and Tough coat on top, been tried and tested on here, and certainly works.

Two coats for even coverage and durability.


----------



## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

Concours Car Care said:


> Auto Finesse Tough Coat Demo - YouTube


I too thought of this but it doesn't show how long to leave it before buffing off.........:thumb:


----------



## Leemack (Mar 6, 2009)

It does matey

21 seconds in


----------



## AbvRS (Aug 24, 2011)

prior to use it went through the usual snow foam, fash, clay, polish with Menzerna Super Finish (85RE), followed by another wash before applying the tough coat.

If this weather ever changes, I plan to start again, clay, polish if required and apply 2-3 layers of tough coat leaving to cure a bit longer.

Any preferred methods of removing previous protection if I don't need to get out the DA to polish?


----------



## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

Concours Car Care said:


> It does matey
> 
> 21 seconds in


Well don't I feel like a  :wall:

I skipped through it, forgot it was a text based vid not speaking! hee

Back to the jamesons for me, no more advice tonight :thumb:


----------



## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

AbvRS said:


> prior to use it went through the usual snow foam, fash, clay, polish with Menzerna Super Finish (85RE), followed by another wash before applying the tough coat.
> 
> If this weather ever changes, I plan to start again, clay, polish if required and apply 2-3 layers of tough coat leaving to cure a bit longer.
> 
> Any preferred methods of removing previous protection if I don't need to get out the DA to polish?


Aha, yep the oils from the Menz will stop the TC bonding properly, you'll need to do a diluted IPA wipedown, Menz's top inspection is very good or Capro Eraser :thumb:

P.S no need to clay etc again, maybe go over again with your Menz to remove whats left of the TC, then IPA etc wipedown, then 2 layers of TC!! Bob's your aunties fella!


----------



## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

Try some Tough Prep beforehand or another sealant friendly prep product. It's seen3-4 months on cars I've used it on in the past.


----------



## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

What are you on, Certainly give some advice after the Jameson tremetment on here  You will be sharper and quick off the mark


----------



## Jarw101 (Jun 7, 2011)

Will TC bond ok to Prima Amigo?


----------



## AbvRS (Aug 24, 2011)

thanks everyone will get something to remove th oils, thought a wash would do it, but obviously not. roll on dry weather!!


----------



## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

MidlandsCarCare said:


> Try some Tough Prep beforehand or another sealant friendly prep product. It's seen3-4 months on cars I've used it on in the past.


Hi Russ, hope you are well and having a great weekend.

Russ just wanted to ask you, as you have experience with dealing with Autofinesse products, what's the cleaning strength of the new Tough prep, plus does this product have a mild cut to the solution as well.


----------



## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

The product is certainly capable of alot more in terms of durability, as well as looking at the prep and curing stages, what are you doing in terms of maintenance, ie whats your was routine and what products are you using?


----------



## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

AbvRS said:


> thanks everyone will get something to remove th oils, thought a wash would do it, but obviously not. roll on dry weather!!


You want to strip the previous layer, easy, you need Autoglym HD Cleanser, this will strip the previous layer and dirt as well :thumb: you will be left with a clean base on the paintwork.


----------



## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

Trip tdi said:


> What are you on, Certainly give some advice after the Jameson tremetment on here  You will be sharper and quick off the mark


Ha gimme an hour or so and I'll be recommending Brillo as an after polish wipedown. :thumb:


----------



## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

Get AF tripple or rejuvenate rather then HD cleanse, these products are designed to work together.


----------



## AbvRS (Aug 24, 2011)

James B said:


> The product is certainly capable of alot more in terms of durability, as well as looking at the prep and curing stages, what are you doing in terms of maintenance, ie whats your was routine and what products are you using?


My routine is every other week ( when possible each week) the bodywork gets a snow foam followed by a wash with Maguires lamb wool mitt with auto finesse lather or other quality shampoo followed by a dry with maguires waffle towel.

Please comment if you disagree but I don't anything massivly wrong with my routine, so have just ordered some top inspection to get it completely clean before applying.

Thanks all


----------



## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

Don't forget the Brillo pads!!! :thumb::tumbleweed:


----------



## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

s.bailey said:


> Ha gimme an hour or so and I'll be recommending Brillo as an after polish wipedown. :thumb:


Well, i'm talking about knocking the whole bottle down, its the Jameson's way 

No Brillo's, need a angle grinder and disc cutter 

Only messing.


----------



## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

Last time I did a whole bottle I destroyed our coffee table trying to swat a file!!! Missus was unimpressed!!


----------



## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Shame, you are not closer to me, I would of made one my exclusive Tripster's Night Kap for you :thumb:


----------



## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

Do tell.....


----------



## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

s.bailey said:


> Last time I did a whole bottle I destroyed our coffee table trying to swat a file!!! Missus was unimpressed!!


That was properly the fly trying to a have a sip of your Jameson's 

Brother, Raid is the stuff you need


----------



## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

s.bailey said:


> Do tell.....


Are You free home right now 

It's complex, there's alot of shaking and mixing involved


----------



## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

A thread of interest to me has become a private conversation, keep it on topic chaps.


----------



## Ns1980 (Jun 29, 2011)

AF Tough Prep would be the ideal precursor to Tough Coat - might be worth investing in this?


----------



## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

S63 said:


> A thread of interest to me has become a private conversation, keep it on topic chaps.


Sorry chap, seemed the question was answered and the thread finished. What are you wanting to know?


----------



## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

AbvRS said:


> My routine is every other week ( when possible each week) the bodywork gets a snow foam followed by a wash with Maguires lamb wool mitt with auto finesse lather or other quality shampoo followed by a dry with maguires waffle towel.
> 
> Please comment if you disagree but I don't anything massivly wrong with my routine, so have just ordered some top inspection to get it completely clean before applying.
> 
> Thanks all


Just try leaving the snow foam out for a couple of washes and see how you get on.

Id personally recommend just IPA over the product mentioned, or as others have suggested some tough prep, actually, forget that, i have a couple of Tough Prep samples here, ping me your postal address and il send you some.

Im not trying to pick fault on your routine, im just trying to help you get the most from our products :thumb:


----------



## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Without wishing to hijack the thread, is Dodo Lime Prime suitable as a pre cleanser for tough coat?


----------



## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

S63 said:


> Without wishing to hijack the thread, is Dodo Lime Prime suitable as a pre cleanser for tough coat?


Not really its a bit too oily to lend its self to creating a perfect sealant base.


----------



## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

James B said:


> Not really its a bit to oily to lend its self to creating a perfect sealant base.


Thanks, but with an IPA wipe after ok?


----------



## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

You'll remove most of the fillers in lime prime defeating the object.


----------



## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

S63 said:


> Thanks, but with an IPA wipe after ok?


Yer that would be fine, not really defeating the object if your using it to cleanse and lightly polish the surface and are not depending on the fillers to create the finish, then its fine.


----------



## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

????? Surely it would be better to use a cleanser that wasnt too oily and required a wipedown?


----------



## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

s.bailey said:


> ????? Surely it would be better to use a cleanser that wasnt too oily and required a wipedown?


ideally yes


----------



## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

So was I ok recommending rejuv or tripple then. Personally I've just gone with tripple and TC.


----------



## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

James B said:


> ideally yes


You should release something designed for this purpose. I think you should call it Tough Prep!  :tumbleweed:


----------



## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

Agreed to a degree but for those of us that would rather fill then over correct :thumb:


----------



## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

s.bailey said:


> ????? Surely it would be better to use a cleanser that wasnt too oily and required a wipedown?


Lime prime is an excellent cleaner with enough cut to remove minor scratches and provide a glossy finish, not bothered about its filling properties, having a plentiful supply makes it ideal for the purpose.


----------



## Blueberry (Aug 10, 2007)

I've had the same problem with Tough Coat. Bought it after reading good reviews so thought I would use it on the roof of my RCZ. It marks very easily - it looks like glass but isn't so some sort of painted finish. Deep cleaned the roof as the last protection was none existent and used Carpro Eraser before applying 2 coats of TC. Applied and left to haze for 15-20 minutes then buffed off. That was in April. Yesterday washed the car ( first time in 5 weeks) and no protection showing on the roof whatsoever. No beading, no sheeting, nothing. Disappointed as I thought it was supposed to last 6 months.


----------



## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

I know that some of these new generation of sealants require a wipe down with IPA and not Eraser, perhaps James can clarify.


----------



## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

It dont need an IPA wipe down before application, it sits best ontop of Tough Prep, but can go on top of all of our our polishes (TP, Tripple and Rejuvenate)



Blueberry said:


> I've had the same problem with Tough Coat. Bought it after reading good reviews so thought I would use it on the roof of my RCZ. It marks very easily - it looks like glass but isn't so some sort of painted finish. Deep cleaned the roof as the last protection was none existent and used Carpro Eraser before applying 2 coats of TC. Applied and left to haze for 15-20 minutes then buffed off. That was in April. Yesterday washed the car ( first time in 5 weeks) and no protection showing on the roof whatsoever. No beading, no sheeting, nothing. Disappointed as I thought it was supposed to last 6 months.


Up to 6 months, if you have got 3 months durability from it you have still got a decent life span from the product in my opinion, alot will come down to how you maintain your vehicle and your wash routine. Get that right and you will see more durability from any LSP :thumb:


----------



## Sneak Attack (Mar 1, 2012)

Blueberry said:


> I've had the same problem with Tough Coat. Bought it after reading good reviews so thought I would use it on the roof of my RCZ. It marks very easily - it looks like glass but isn't so some sort of painted finish. Deep cleaned the roof as the last protection was none existent and used Carpro Eraser before applying 2 coats of TC. Applied and left to haze for 15-20 minutes then buffed off. That was in April. Yesterday washed the car ( first time in 5 weeks) and no protection showing on the roof whatsoever. No beading, no sheeting, nothing. Disappointed as I thought it was supposed to last 6 months.


What foam and/or shampoo are you using? Are you using any QD?

I applied TC directly to IPA'd paint and got a comfortable (winter) 6 months from a single coat.

On another car, I applied a coat over Werkstat Prime and got about 5 months so it does last. I wash with Lather or Megs Shampoo Plus. Occasionally foam with Hyper Wash.

It's starting to degrade now on another car I have and it's just at 4 months but it gets very heavily contaminated on a daily basis, due to where it's parked.

What type of pad did you use to apply? I used a Megs MF pad. I only leave it on for 5 minutes at most per coat before buffing but can't see why leaving it longer would have a detrimental effect of durability, hence why I'd look to the wash stage.


----------



## Blueberry (Aug 10, 2007)

Sneak Attack said:


> What foam and/or shampoo are you using? Are you using any QD?
> 
> I applied TC directly to IPA'd paint and got a comfortable (winter) 6 months from a single coat.
> 
> ...


I've been using Wolf's Nano Bathe shampoo and Valet Pro Snow Foam. Applied with a Dodo Supernatural Finger Mitt.
I use, very diluted, CG Synthetic detailer, as a drying aid. I always use this QD when drying and not experienced a drop in performance with other sealants I've used on the roof.

I know 3 months is not bad but due to the roof easily marking I'm looking for longer durability to reduce the amount of time I have to touch the roof.


----------



## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Blueberry said:


> I've been using Wolf's Nano Bathe shampoo and Valet Pro Snow Foam. Applied with a Dodo Supernatural Finger Mitt.
> I use, very diluted, CG Synthetic detailer, as a drying aid. I always use this QD when drying and not experienced a drop in performance with other sealants I've used on the roof.
> 
> I know 3 months is not bad but due to the roof easily marking I'm looking for longer durability to reduce the amount of time I have to touch the roof.


Is the roof paint or some form of Gel Coat on the RCZ?


----------



## Sneak Attack (Mar 1, 2012)

Blueberry said:


> I've been using Wolf's Nano Bathe shampoo and Valet Pro Snow Foam. Applied with a Dodo Supernatural Finger Mitt.
> I use, very diluted, CG Synthetic detailer, as a drying aid. I always use this QD when drying and not experienced a drop in performance with other sealants I've used on the roof.
> 
> I know 3 months is not bad but due to the roof easily marking I'm looking for longer durability to reduce the amount of time I have to touch the roof.


I've heard a few folk saying the VP foam has a detrimental affect on durability; not tried it myself but could be worth skipping it out for a while to see if it changes?

Nano Bathe needs to be diluted _very_ carefully too in my experience so double check that's 100% too.

TC has been fine on the polycarb panoramic roof on our Disco 4.


----------



## Blueberry (Aug 10, 2007)

Sneak Attack said:


> I've heard a few folk saying the VP foam has a detrimental affect on durability; not tried it myself but could be worth skipping it out for a while to see if it changes?
> 
> Nano Bathe needs to be diluted _very_ carefully too in my experience so double check that's 100% too.
> 
> TC has been fine on the polycarb panoramic roof on our Disco 4.


I think you can put this idea to bed as in the years I have been detailing (5 years), Valet Pro SF is the only one I've used, with the exception of CG No Touch in the winter months. I've never had any problems with durability with any of the waxes or sealants I've used in that time. For example, I have Wolf's BW on my paintwork and they recommend not using SF but I still always have and the BW is still going strong 10 months later.

The Nano Bathe, I don't even use half a cap full, so not likely to be that.

As I've said before I'm not sure what the roof of the RCZ is made of. It looks glass like but it has some sort of paint coating on it.
Swirls and scratches can be removed by DA.


----------



## Sneak Attack (Mar 1, 2012)

Blueberry said:


> I think you can put this idea to bed as in the years I have been detailing (5 years), Valet Pro SF is the only one I've used, with the exception of CG No Touch in the winter months. I've never had any problems with durability with any of the waxes or sealants I've used in that time. For example, I have Wolf's BW on my paintwork and they recommend not using SF but I still always have and the BW is still going strong 10 months later.
> 
> The Nano Bathe, I don't even use half a cap full, so not likely to be that.
> 
> ...


Half a capful might actually be too much; it's 500:1 water/product dilution so it'd be best to work it out.

The way to prove the foam isn't the issue is to skip it out for a few months; there's a few people I know who've experienced some issues with this foam and one who spilt some of it neat onto some laminated MDF type work surface.

The spill wasn't mopped up for a few days and the laminate layer essentially corroded.....


----------

