# Meguiars G220 V2 vs. Kestral DAS-6 Pro - Head to Head



## Dave KG

Following on from my initial testing of the Meguiars G220 V2 (see this thread: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=225385), we decided it was time to put the new DA from Meguiars up against its competition - and the biggest challenge to the G220 would come from the DAS-6 Pro from Kestral.

On the face of it, the Meguiars G220 wades into battle at a disadvantage - more expensive and with a less powerful motor than the Kestral. However, it does have the cruise control as an additional feature and those used to machine polishers will know there is more to machines than just on-paper specs... to give an example, the comparison between a Makita and a Silverline from the world of rotaries 

In previous tests, the G220 V2 had shown itself to be a worthy machine, a big improvement on the V1 - longer, smoother feeling in use, cruise control and far superior access to brushes (an achillie's heel of the V1). But the market has moved on and we now have the DAS-6 Pro at the top of it in my eyes, so this would be the benchmark the G220 would be judged against.

*The Vibration Challenge*

One of the big issues with DA polishers for me is vibration and minimising this and making for a smooth machine in use is a big plus and would be the biggest selling point that one machine would have over another in my eyes... but how best to test vibrations? Well, using them and we can give out own opinions, but to try and highlight the vibrations we decided to do a series of sets on video with a cut of water next to the set to show the vibrations on the panel and then with a bottle of IPA on the head of the machine to show the vibrations here that would be transferred to the user.

First of all, using a white Hexlogic polishing pad - a softish pad which will act to absorb some of the vibrations itself. Below are two videos showing first the Kestral DAS-6 Pro and then the Meguiars G220 V2: watch the water surface to see the vibrations:











The end results of this effort suggested that at slow speeds, the G220 vibrated more whereas at higher speeds the Kestral was the machine that gave more vibration... We then tried this with a stiffer pad fitted that would absorb less vibrations: the Hexlogic Orange was chosen:











Again, the results seem to be consistent with the G220 vibrating more at lower speed and then less at higher speed... however, this wasn't quite tallying with what we were *feeling* in practice as the DAS-6 Pro felt like the smoother machine... perhaps the vibrations we felt would be better measured with a liquid source attached to the machine polisher, so we chose IPA for this as it was a little less dense than water and would show the vibrations better... Again, comparing the G220 V2 and the Kestral:











At this stage it became clear that the G220 was producing less vibrations than the Kestral and this is something that we might expect given the difference in powers between the machines as any off-balance from a more powerful machine will result in a greater vibration. However, the G220 felt like it was vibrating a little more which I believe to be down to the frequency of the vibrations rather than the ferocity if that makes sense. This may well be different for different people, and the liquid tests above do show that the G220 vibrates less, however I would add the caveat that the frequency of vibration is less comfortable than that of the Kestral. A big improvement in feel and comfort in use over the old G220 though!

*Cruise Control*

One of the big aces up the G220's sleeve is the cruise control feature that aims to keep the pad rotating regardless of the pressure applied. This feature showed itself useful when testing a soft polishing pad from the DRC1000 range. The Kestral bogged down under little pressure:






The Meguiars G220 V2 performed much better at both low and high speeds, maintaining the rotation of the pad:











Although, later in the set, the Meguiars machine also had issues keeping the pad rotating at the same pace - we see in the next video it was still allowing the pad to rotate but much slower, as if it was bogging down:






So - the cruise control feature does certainly have an effect, and it for me ranks as an advantage over the DAS-6 Pro, and is perhaps the biggest ace up the sleeve of the Meguiars machine. It does have the downside of you are no longer able to use the pad rotation as a pressure gauge, as the machine keeps it turning but this is a minor issue and the advantages offered by it are greater.

*Conclusion*

So far, there is still much more testing to be carried out and opinions to be sought art various classes  ... However, the G220 is set to make an impact on the DA market and is a big improvement over the old G220 V1! Before the new G220 was launched, the choice of best DA was easy in my eyes - it was the DAS-6 Pro. What the new V2 G220 has done is made that choice more difficult - it hasn't for me represented a machine to completely topple the Kestral's crown and become the new obvious choice, but rather it has given people a realistic alternative machine to the DAS-6 Pro with an additional useful feature (the cruise control).


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## tzotzo

Thanx for the test Dave. So cruise control is like forced rotation?
If you had to choose, which one would that be?


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## Mr Face

Thanks for the head to head Dave. I have a G220V1 and DAS6 Pro. Now Im not sure if it was a frequency issue but the New V2 Megs machine sounded like a bag of nails (old diesel engine) That in itself isnt an issue if you live in the middle of no where but if you have neighbours I can envisage that raising a few hackles. Strange really how both machines achieve a similar functions but sound totally different (if the video's are a true representation of both machines)

Thanks again :thumb: nice one.


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## CleanYourCar

Nice test Dave, however being pedantic  that's our DAS-6 PRO polisher, not the kestrel power plus. Same thing I guess, but it's our own machine we specced and brought in. Kestrel released their one a year later yet for some reason it still gets referred to as that even though it's a CleanYourCar DAS-6 PRO, Kestrel is a completely different company.

The G220 and PRO are very similar now, but I think the big difference in cost still swings it.

The videos are such a good way to demonstrate stuff like this, look forward to more!


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## Dave KG

tzotzo said:


> Thanx for the test Dave. So cruise control is like forced rotation?
> If you had to choose, which one would that be?


If I had to choose one, I would probably for for the DAS-6 Pro but the soft pad issues would always be in the back of my mind... the videos demonstrate the reasons I never recommend soft finishing pads such as the 3M ones with a DA as they can bog down to a much greater extent than stiffer ones. The G220 Cruise Control helps to overcome this, but it is still not an ideal situation.



Mr Face said:


> Thanks for the head to head Dave. I have a G220V1 and DAS6 Pro. Now Im not sure if it was a frequency issue but the New V2 Megs machine sounded like a bag of nails (old diesel engine) That in itself isnt an issue if you live in the middle of no where but if you have neighbours I can envisage that raising a few hackles. Strange really how both machines achieve a similar functions but sound totally different (if the video's are a true representation of both machines)
> 
> Thanks again :thumb: nice one.


Perhaps the machine will quieten down when it gets more use, but it does sound a bit louder which is fine in a unit but not so ideal as you say working in a neighbourhood in the later hours which us detaillers can be prone to late nights! That said, I am not sure how the camera I was using deals with sound, I can't think that it would slew the test given it was the same camera used (Nikon D90).



CleanYourCar said:


> Nice test Dave, however being pedantic  that's our DAS-6 PRO polisher, not the kestrel power plus. Same thing I guess, but it's our own machine we specced and brought in. Kestrel released their one a year later yet for some reason it still gets referred to as that even though it's a CleanYourCar DAS-6 PRO, Kestrel is a completely different company.
> 
> The G220 and PRO are very similar now, but I think the big difference in cost still swings it.
> 
> The videos are such a good way to demonstrate stuff like this, look forward to more!


The machines do seem pretty much identical in practice, with very similar if not identical feel and equivalent specs - who is the root manufacturer for both machines? In terms of the test, given the similarities I would still suggest that this is a fair head to head for both the Kestral DAS-6 Pro and a CYC DAS-6 Pro 

One thing that can still swing things in the opposite direction from cost is reliability of the machines - again here, the DAS-6 Pro has set a very good benchmark, certainly the machine we have is still going strong and has never missed a beat despite it getting some hard use and being used by everyone who attended the polishing classes. The G220 has this to live up to, in-use reliability, but it may be that over time it can prove more reliable but the DAS has set very high standards already!

Meguiars are certainly stepping their game forward, as now they have a machine that is competitive in the market whereas the old V1 G220 was just not so competitive.


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## GolfFanBoy

Thanks for posting your findings Dave :thumb: I've just bought the G220 V2 as my first polisher so it's good to see it in action.


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## dwmc

just a few q`s that spring to mind .

on the cruise control part , obviously this has been added to prevent it bogging down but why do i feel the cause of bogging down is due to user , also the DAS 6 PRO is known for it`s safety for when someone applies way too much pressure it will stop to help prevent damage to paintwork so won`t this cruise control increase that risk ? 
whats your view on the difference in weights between the 2 machines ?


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## Dave KG

dwmc said:


> just a few q`s that spring to mind .
> 
> on the cruise control part , obviously this has been added to prevent it bogging down but why do i feel the cause of bogging down is due to user , also the DAS 6 PRO is known for it`s safety for when someone applies way too much pressure it will stop to help prevent damage to paintwork so won`t this cruise control increase that risk ?
> whats your view on the difference in weights between the 2 machines ?


In what regard in the above tests is bogging down due to the user? With no pressure the pad rotates, but with small additional pressure with the DAS-6 on a flat panel with no contours, the pad bogs down - the cause here is much more likely to be down to the large soft pad, and as mentioned highlights the reason I do not personally recommend the use of soft pads like this with a DA, as they can be prone to bogging down. This is something the G220 V2 has sought to address with a degree of success, that you can use softer pads with typical DA pressures without the bogging down issues. Regarding the safety element, yes, you now loose the guide to pressure that pad rotation gives you and now you must rely more on feel and common sense - ie, do not push down hard on panel edges for example. But yes, it takes away a little safety comfort cushion for those who prefer it, though bear in mind that with a stiffer pad (the more dangerous pads in terms of offered cut), you will need some serious strength to bog a DAS-6 Pro down and it can generate its fair share of heat on a panel which makes the safety considerations more of a mute point.

Weight wise, both machines felt very similar in use in that they both felt comfortable and easy to control with no stresses being put on my arms from the weights of the machines, the biggest difference in comfort coming from the vibrations of the machines.


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## dwmc

on the bogging down issue what i meant was the bogging down itself when a newbie is using a DA it`s the ultimate thing that proves he is doing something wrong like too much product / pressure and pad choice so learning how to overcome the bogging down issue for a beginner is a lesson in itself but now this has been removed and the added risk (although slight) with the cruise control i think for the beginners the megs cruise control feature may have took a little step backwards and to have to pay more 
just my opinion of course and maybe a good topic for others to discuss , 
great write up non the less and hopefully one day vibrations from DA`s will be a thing of the past .

great write up as usual :thumb:


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## Dave KG

dwmc said:


> on the bogging down issue what i meant was the bogging down itself when a newbie is using a DA it`s the ultimate thing that proves he is doing something wrong like too much product / pressure and pad choice so learning how to overcome the bogging down issue for a beginner is a lesson in itself but now this has been removed and the added risk (although slight) with the cruise control i think for the beginners the megs cruise control feature may have took a little step backwards and to have to pay more
> just my opinion of course and maybe a good topic for others to discuss ,
> great write up non the less and *hopefully one day vibrations from DA`s will be a thing of the past .*
> 
> great write up as usual :thumb:


If only they were a thing of the past - but at least they are getting better :thumb:

Gordon and I were discussing the bogging down issue which is why we tried to bog down the DAS with a stiffer pad and found out how much force you really needed and the heat it could generate - times have moved on since the humble PC7424. But you are right, there is a point to think about in terms of the cruise control removing something you can use to judge the pressure you are applying, so it is food for thought :thumb:


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## caledonia

Bit of a curved ball though. 

Is pressure still really required due to the oscillations being maintained by the machine. The only difference would be that the abrasiveness would not be getting forced into the paint. Which would lead to a longer set time and in turn longer cutting stage. Something to consider with the cruise control.
Gordon.


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## Mirror Finish Details

Aye but with the new Micro Fibre pad and polish system available you hardly have to put any pressure on anyway.

Did a training course on Sunday at Shinearama and used all the new products from Megs, we were completly correcting a VW Golf in two 5 minute sets of the cut polish then a 5 minute set of refining with the other DA pad.

Thinking DA with the new thinner pads is a super system.


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## caledonia

Mirror Finish said:


> Aye but with the new Micro Fibre pad and polish system available you hardly have to put any pressure on anyway.
> 
> Did a training course on Sunday at Shinearama and used all the new products from Megs, we were completly correcting a VW Golf in two 5 minute sets of the cut polish then a 5 minute set of refining with the other DA pad.
> 
> Thinking DA with the new thinner pads is a super system.


 Having worked with Cg optical grade polishes and there Mf pad system I agree that a conventional set time is of benefit. Due to the nature of the polish. I am sure David mentioned it to you. When he asked you to call me.
But the Meg new D300 and the finish wax is a totally different system and there is no benefit to a longer set time. This is all down to the abrasives in the mix. Pressure is paramount on both systems and all the mf pads have the same level of cut and it is only the density of the foam interface layer that differs. So pressure is the key to fully work the polish and get maximum benefit from them. The reason the MF pad work so well is there is no absorption and give within the pad and the pressure is directly applied to the area being work. 
So it is more to do with the types of abrasive rather than the pad themselves.

One interesting point you did raise thou when you said you fully corrected a golf. What steps to you take to verify true correction was present with the new megs polishes.???
Gordon.


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## Dave KG

Mirror Finish said:


> *Aye but with the new Micro Fibre pad and polish system available you hardly have to put any pressure on anyway.*
> 
> Did a training course on Sunday at Shinearama and used all the new products from Megs, we were completly correcting a VW Golf in two 5 minute sets of the cut polish then a 5 minute set of refining with the other DA pad.
> 
> Thinking DA with the new thinner pads is a super system.


Really? That is an interesting finding, and certainly one that is contradictory to my findings and the findings that Gordon and I had during testing - pressure was key to successfully maximising the potential of the products with microfibre correction systems.

The Megs polishes you mention, if you consider the Correction Compound, the abrasives in this have a very aggressive initial cut but break down very quickly - this allows the quick correction that is observed in testing, while also minimising the marring that is left by the compound as well from the short set. Indeed, on lengthening a set to just beyond three minutes we saw no tenable benefits to using a shorter set of a couple of minutes and 4 - 6 passes as suggested by Meguiars in the bottle in terms of correction, perhaps a smaller enhancement in terms of sharpness of the finish which was our aim for the lengthened sets. Beyond about three miunutes though, there was no benefits in my testing with the product. However, I was using pressure as instructed by Meguiars which makes perfect sense when you consider the quick working abrasives and the thin microfibre pads allowing direct pressure to the abrasives to get the correction quickly from the initial heavy cut. I would be interested if you could post perhaps a video or photographs demonstrating your results and the benefits you see of the five minute sets compared to the recommended short sets? The longer sets that we were doing provided benefit in terms of the clarity of the finish at the end, but gong beyond about three minutes with pressure during the application was giving us no tenable benefits and was in my opinion overriding the time advantage that the microfibre system can present when you consider a typcial set with foam will last around five minutes. Although it may not be recommended by some to short set the product, and you can even use water with it to reactivate it (a bit like P1) if you want an even longer set, the benefits of long sets seem minimal to me in my personal experience with the product.

Indeed, referring to your post where you post the work of Todd Copperider, a quote from him about pressure: "Use slower arm movement than you normally would, and for heavier correction you will use a lot more downward pressure than is normal. You'll need to experiment a little with the amount of pressure required depending on the paint type. Harder paints or heavier defects will require more pressure to achieve the desired level of correction." - Use of a lot more downward pressure and this is certainly consistent with our findings.

Our testing so far with the Chemical Guys microfibre system and the Optical Polishes (not themsleves designed for microfibre pads, they just happen to work on them):

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=221677

and of the Meguiars system (further testing now carried out and awaiting the writeup, but this is some of the more initial testing):

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=225052

In both of these tests, we found that the application of pressure was essential to maximising the performance of the products. In the case of Meguiars, the much shorter set lengths achieved the correction (when used in combination with notable pressure) in a shorter space of time than a foam equivalent, and the pressure was in my opinion therefore key to getting the time benefit offered by the product - rather than using no pressure and set length of five minutes, longer sets with less pressure performing worse in our experience. Again here, an advantage of the microfibre system in the working environment was the short set length to achieve the results as the heat artificially shortened work times of products so having one that will do its job in less sets provided an advantage. Definite food for thought here.

Of course, different styles will lead to different results with the machine, which is why I think seeing your technique and results on video and in pictures would be fascinating to show what are clearly different techniques and styles being used to achieve results...


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## rnwd202295x

I have a CYC Das 6 Pro and would have thought that the balance weight would have an effect on vibration. Where it would need to be different weights for different pad and backing plate sizes. Just a thought?


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## Dave KG

rnwd202295x said:


> I have a CYC Das 6 Pro and would have thought that the balance weight would have an effect on vibration. Where it would need to be different weights for different pad and backing plate sizes. Just a thought?


The old PC7424 has different balance weights, some being supplied with the 5" balance weight and the other the 6" weight, but the difference between them was negligible because these weights were designed for when the machine was using paper sanding discs... the foam pads by comparison are huge and changing weights with them seems to make little if any difference.


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## drew baby

Hi All,
Really good topic, i`m pondering my first D A and it will be one of the two DA`s tested, if only i understood the finer points you made, but thanks to you all because one day i will.
Regards Drew.


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## Jakub555

I bought a week ago G220V2 
Enjoyed so much


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## Michael B.

any updates? im close to ordering either g220 v2 or das6 pro, im used to working with g220 v1, but the price difference is holding me back, rather have the megs one but still confused to which one to get ](*,)

the main reason why i wanna change DA is cause my v1 is not that strong anymore, bogs down easyli, i did my car with the MF system for the first time with my v1 and i polished and polished, but didnt get anywhere near perfect since it booged down easy,

made a small vid showing how i used it






i was using setting 5 at this point and hard pressure and i did clean it in between with a megs trible brush thingie

and still has alot of spiderweb when i look and the paint in the right angle with a bright light

so therefor i was thinking that my beloved v1 is getting outdated


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## CleanYourCar

Michael B. said:


> any updates? im close to ordering either g220 v2 or das6 pro, im used to working with g220 v1, but the price difference is holding me back, rather have the megs one but still confused to which one to get ](*,)
> 
> the main reason why i wanna change DA is cause my v1 is not that strong anymore, bogs down easyli, i did my car with the MF system for the first time with my v1 and i polished and polished, but didnt get anywhere near perfect since it booged down easy,
> 
> i was using setting 5 at this point and hard pressure and i did clean it in between with a megs trible brush thingie
> 
> and still has alot of spiderweb when i look and the paint in the right angle with a bright light
> 
> so therefor i was thinking that my beloved v1 is getting outdated


The DAS-6 PRO is absolutely bang on with the Megs Microfiber system. It won't bog down and you will get superb correction. Side by side you will notice the extra torque against your G220 v1 polisher.

I've used this on quite a few VAG paints now and it's possible to get an almost flawless finish and comes highly recommended.

Tim


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## caledonia

Exactly as Tim has said. Comfort user appeal and reasults speak for themselve. And taking all the training classes run and comparisions between both machine. Most if not all go for the Da pro. 
Gordon.


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## Dibs

Sorry for the thread revival, but which one is the best for a newbie? It will be my first machine polisher. I've read a lot of conflicting reviews and am now even more confused than before...
Thanks


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## Bod42

You wont really get an answer from reading reviews. I dont think your be disappointed by either machine but you may prefer one over the other and the only way to find that out is to try them.

I have the DAS-6 Pro and my mates has the G220. Luckily I prefer the DAS and he prefers his G220 but both do the job perfectly well.


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## CHALKYUK

DAS-6 PRO Plus vs DAS-6 PRO anyone?


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