# Driver Awareness



## STEALTH K3 (Dec 29, 2006)

In January I went on a Drivers awareness course, my insurance was up for renewal with Admiral.

Went through the milarky all the questions now they are asking about drivers awareness course in the same sentence as points, convictions.

The premium went up by £50 it looks like this is another spin for them to make a little bit of extra £s in the end I went with Direct performance who did not ask about the Drivers awareness.

Useful in where I got my insurance from

http://www.gocompare.com/car-insurance/speed-awareness-courses/


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2016)

Now there is an irony. Surely the whole point of a drivers awareness course is to actually improve and help make you a safer driver! It's the same for IAM. I don't bother to mention I've passed this course as quoted premiums are usually higher.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

Insurance is all based on risk models on the data they collect. It just so happens that those people that tend to be on drivers awareness courses or IAM course are more likely to claim. The theory of how they could make you better drivers is meaningless as far as I can tell...

For example, while it would seem that putting your car in a garage would reduce your premium, it actually sometimes increases it, as people with garages are prone to causing damage trying to fit them inside, therefore making more claims!


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

It's not exactly fair when both people commit the same offence, speeding, but one person gets points, a fine and is 3/6 points nearer losing their licence, but the other person only has to pay a fee for the course. 

I've never been on the course but we all know these courses go out in one ear and out the other for most people.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Yeah happened to wife last year upon renewal. Only couple of companies asked but I thought it was only a matter of time before they all start it. What I wondered was if they could find out if you've been on one if you said no (probably a daft question).


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

Kerr said:


> It's not exactly fair when both people commit the same offence, speeding, but one person gets points, a fine and is 3/6 points nearer losing their licence, but the other person only has to pay a fee for the course.
> 
> I've never been on the course but we all know these courses go out in one ear and out the other for most people.


Doesn't it depend on how much over the speed limit you are? Just over and its speed awareness more than acceptable over and its points?


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

tmitch45 said:


> Doesn't it depend on how much over the speed limit you are? Just over and its speed awareness more than acceptable over and its points?


I believe some of it is down to the discretion of the police officer as well as the speed.

In Scotland we don't even have the chance of a course rather than points. So we always get points no matter what.


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## MagpieRH (May 27, 2014)

Premiums are going up anyway - did you put your details through the comparison sites without the driver awareness course? Might be that your premium would've been hiked anyway because the insurance felt like it.

Sorry, I mean your risk profile has increased because no reason.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

When I (and the people I know who have done the course in the Sunderland location) did the speed awareness course, we were told by the blokes running it that we did not have to divulge to the insurance company that we had been on the course.

Also said that they would have no way of finding out if you had attended the course as there are no actual records once you've been. We were encouraged to write the date/time on the paper handout they gave us "as a receipt" and hang on to it for a few weeks, in case attendance was queried by the police.


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## dhali (Mar 12, 2006)

I was told the same as above . Do not need to divulge . It's all a money making exercise . Counted approx 20 odd people coming out of the course before me and another 20 odd going in . This must have been going on all day .
The lady taking the course was saying that they only ever put camera vans at accident fatality spots to which an old boy replied that where he had been caught there had never been a fatality as he would have known because he has been living there for 40 odd years . She then changed it to ' within a mile of a fatality '


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

If an insurance company asks you and you give false information your insurance will likely be void. 

It's not worth the risk.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Kerr said:


> If an insurance company asks you and you give false information your insurance will likely be void.
> 
> It's not worth the risk.


Guy was more going along that you can refuse to answer the question as opposed to telling an outright lie and if they refuse to carry on with a quote as a consequence, take your business to one of the many who don't require that information.

Obviously, given the variances in insurance quotes, the reality for most may not be so straightforward, but that was this fellas words. It's the AA Drivetech course which is ran here.

EDIT: Taken from AA website


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

m1pui said:


> Guy was more going along that you can refuse to answer the question as opposed to telling an outright lie and if they refuse to carry on with a quote as a consequence, take your business to one of the many who don't require that information.
> 
> Obviously, given the variances in insurance quotes, the reality for most may not be so straightforward, but that was this fellas words. It's the AA Drivetech course which is ran here.
> 
> EDIT: Taken from AA website


If they ask you and you refuse to answer I'm sure we all know the answer.

Then you open yourself up to another question that is always asked."Have you ever been refused on declined insurance?".

A big can of worms opening up with being evasive.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

Most insurers now ask about it. Even the comparison websites ask about it. I happily take 3 points with a smile on my face. No point wasting time on the course, paying and then watching premiums go up to same level they would have been at if you had 3 points


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## STEALTH K3 (Dec 29, 2006)

Is there away of the Insurers find out if you have been on it, Go compare dont ask this as of yet


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

Rayaan said:


> Most insurers now ask about it. Even the comparison websites ask about it. I happily take 3 points with a smile on my face. No point wasting time on the course, paying and then watching premiums go up to same level they would have been at if you had 3 points


is there much difference between 3 and 6 points? guessing some see it as a get out of jail free card for next time instead of racking the points up.


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

STEALTH K3 said:


> Is there away of the Insurers find out if you have been on it, Go compare dont ask this as of yet


Yes, itll be on the drivers license so if they ask for license number theyll know

Be careful on comparison sites - sometimes if they dont ask the question and you click through to an insurer, check the details on the insurers own website as the insurer themselves might have asked but the comparison website will have inputted it as "NONE".

Caught me out a few times with number of children. One of the comparison sites didnt ask and the insurer had "0" in the details section on the insurers website after clicking through to them


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

Its not a compulsory requirement to disclose that you've been on a speed awareness course.

As has already been mentioned, when you attend the course (ive been on one in the past) the course instructors actuall tell you that there is no need to disclose.

The wbole point of the speed awareness course is to educate you AND enable you to avoid getting a conviction (points) on your license that you WILL have to disclose. Because the offence you've been caught for is deemed minor by the procecuting force.

Attending the course (if offered) is, effectively a one off £60 fee

Points on the licence means you will be punished with increased premiums based on you being a higher risk for at least 5 years, while the points are served.

Whats the point of going on the course & then being made to disclose that so you can be hit by higher premuims anyway in the same way you would with points.

The whole idea of having to disclose speed awareness course attendance stinks to high heaven!

So you get caught doing 34 in a 30 & get offered the course...or....... some idiot gets caught doing 80 in a 30 high on drugs.

One is clearly a more dangerous offence than the other, but the insurance companies want to treat them the same if they want to know if youve been on a course.

Bestvthing to do is not to go with an insurance company that asks the question!

And as per Rayaan's post above.....its non disclosable.....youve not actually been convicted of anything. Attending a course wont, as far as im aware be noted against your driving license.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Andyg_TSi said:


> Its not a compulsory requirement to disclose that you've been on a speed awareness course.
> 
> As has already been mentioned, when you attend the course (ive been on one in the past) the course instructors actuall tell you that there is no need to disclose.
> 
> ...


That's not a remotely relevant comparison though. Very dramatic, but not even close to accurate

34mph in a 30mph you'd be very unlikely to even get pulled for.

80mph under the influence of drugs you'd be looking at an automatic ban and large fine. There is numerous offences in there.

Insurance companies will not treat the two cases remotely close to each other either.

I've twice had 3 points over the years. 3 points made very little, if nothing at all, difference to my premium.

I know a few folk that have been disqualified for dangerous driving or driving under the influence and I know their insurance was very expensive once they got their licence back.

Telling them you have 3 points or have been on a course isn't going to see your premium rise dramatically.

Insurance companies also force you to disclose offences after they are removed officially from your licence.

Why should you have to disclose points that aren't relevant in terms of the law?

As I said above, if you refuse to divulge the information when asked we know the answer. If you refuse to answer the questions asked by an insurance company they will likely decline you insurance.

I've never been declined insurance but I hear that hits your premium hard.

It seems too much of a risk for such a trivial matter.


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

Kerr said:


> That's not a remotely relevant comparison though. Very dramatic, but not even close to accurate
> 
> 34mph in a 30mph you'd be very unlikely to even get pulled for.
> 
> ...


Ok....sorry, my example was a bit extreme lol

My point was referring to the question usually asked regarding accidents/convictions within the last 5 years.

It does also make you wonder as another general point why some police forces offer the speed awareness course and some dont.

So 2 people get caught my a mobile speed camera van doing 36 in a 30. In different counties at opposite ends of the country....(lets assume they both have clean licenses)

1 gets a speed awareness course offered, the other person doesn't and has to take the 3 points.

1 person breathes a huge sigh of releif and all they pay out for is the cost of attending the course.
The other has to disclose the points to their insurance and faces higher premiums due to being classed as a higher risk.

To me thats unfair. We either have the offer of the course for everyone (circumstances permitting) or we don't

I assume that the rules regarding the speed awareness course being an option (circumstances permitting) is down to the individual police cheif in each of the forces, rather than it being set by law by central government?


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Andyg_TSi said:


> Ok....sorry, my example was a bit extreme lol
> 
> My point was referring to the question usually asked regarding accidents/convictions within the last 5 years.
> 
> ...


I think some of it is due to the officer's discretion, but large parts of the UK don't even have the awareness courses. I've no idea if that's down to cost, or the fact everyone knows they are a bit pointless.

It's unfair that two drivers commit the same offence but can have a different punishment.

According to what I read statistically people who attend driver awareness courses are more likely to be involved in incidents afterwards. There appears to be no connection between the course and improved driving.

You can see that most people think an awareness course is a way to avoiding 3 points rather than wanting a lesson/lecture for a minor speeding offence that they likely didn't see as a big deal anyway. They aren't going there to learn how to drive better.

I've been to a few driving courses over the years, voluntary or work based may I add :lol: , and some of them are hard hitting. Like most people I do leave thinking that'll never be me. It's never made me change my driving.


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## DrEskimo (Jan 7, 2016)

Kerr said:


> I think some of it is due to the officer's discretion, but large parts of the UK don't even have the awareness courses. I've no idea if that's down to cost, or the fact everyone knows they are a bit pointless.
> 
> It's unfair that two drivers commit the same offence but can have a different punishment.
> 
> ...


Be interested to see the research as there could be a high risk of sampling bias there...

Did they compare the incident rate between those that attended the course and those that haven't been caught speeding, or did they compare it between those that went on the course and those that had been caught speeding, but didn't attend the course (i.e. opted for 3-points)? Second comparison is the only valid one.

Sorry...being nerdy again


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## Marve (Jul 5, 2013)

Andyg_TSi said:


> So 2 people get caught my a mobile speed camera van doing 36 in a 30. In different counties at opposite ends of the country....(lets assume they both have clean licenses)
> 
> 1 gets a speed awareness course offered, the other person doesn't and has to take the 3 points.
> 
> ...


How about 2 people drive at 36 in a 30. One gets caught by a mobile speed van on a Tuesday, second driver on Wednesday doesn't get caught because the speed van isn't there? That is equally unfair, isn't it?


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## Lincs Poacher (Feb 7, 2016)

BareFacedGeek said:


> Now there is an irony. Surely the whole point of a drivers awareness course is to actually improve and help make you a safer driver! It's the same for IAM. I don't bother to mention I've passed this course as quoted premiums are usually higher.


I agree with this, I have been an IAM member for 30 years, I'm also an advanced driving instructor (high speed) for an emergency service. I never ask for a discount, found it is just as cheap by shopping round, just be prepared to change every year. Sometimes it pays to haggle with your existing insurer, and never auto renew.:car:


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