# Being harassed for a parking fine.....



## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

That is not down to me! 

Brief story.
- Car traded in on 18th June
- Received a demand from ZZPS for £100 penalty plus £72 costs for an offence committed on 2nd August
- Sent invoice to ZZPS showing the car was traded in on 18th June, and was no longer in my possession
- ZZPS have said this is not sufficient and require a DVLA letter

Am awaiting DVLA but my concern is that the dealer may not have removed me from the V5 which is why they are hassling me.

I really hate these parking companies they will harass anyone they think they might be able to extract money from.

Any thoughts, do I just ignore it and defend in court if need be..........


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## Deathstar (Jan 13, 2013)

We've had speeding/parking and Congestion charge fines in the past when we have traded cars in.
We have got a letter (headed) from the dealer saying we had traded the car in on X date and were no longer in possession of the vehicle. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Bug Sponge (Apr 9, 2017)

In my experience as long as it's not the council chasing you, you can ignore the letters and threats and eventually they will go away.


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

Thanks this is a private firm, I would have thought an invoice from a main Mercedes dealer would have meant the same. I'm seeing the dealer tomorrow (new car time) I'll get a letter thanks.


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

You must of sent your part of the v5 back to dvla,or has the system changed now?


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

The dealer took care of the V5, I did get notification that I was no longer the registered keeper, but cant remember when. DVLA will let me know later this week.


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

m500dpp said:


> The dealer took care of the V5, I did get notification that I was no longer the registered keeper, but cant remember when. DVLA will let me know later this week.


I'd not worry then,they haven't got a leg to stand on then,don't stress yourself over it,I'd call into the dealership and ask questions.
The company who's chasing can go and play conkers,the dirty slugs.


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

I wouldnt panic as other have said.

but it is your respomsibility to inform the dvla of change of ownership. 
The dealer may have been trying to be "helpful" but i would not trust a dealer to do it on my behalf


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## R5_RXK (Sep 13, 2017)

private firms will only send threat letters, very rare that they take further action as is not worth their while..usually most people get scared and pay up because of the demanding letter so their tactics work most of the time.


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

Thanks done a bit of research essentially ZZPS havnt got a leg to stand on and appear not to have taken anyone to court. they are merely debt collectors who rely on bullying tactics. Im in fun mode so will keep stringing them along and waste as much of their time as I can. I have solid evidence I didnt own the car at the time so there is nothing they can do.

They are just total scum, why do we allow these people to even exist!


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## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

They're the same as those who claim compensation for an accident (whiplash etc) when there's nothing wrong with them. I'd bet there are plenty on here who've done that.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Just ignore them and let them take you to court if they really want to (they won't)

Then let them pay costs when you win.....


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

R5_RXK said:


> private firms will only send threat letters, very rare that they take further action as is not worth their while..usually most people get scared and pay up because of the demanding letter so their tactics work most of the time.


There is plenty of examples of private firms taking people to court.


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## MEH4N (Mar 15, 2012)

Bug Sponge said:


> In my experience as long as it's not the council chasing you, you can ignore the letters and threats and eventually they will go away.


Please don't follow this advice. Always keep proof/audit trail of attempts you have made to address any issues even if you are not at fault. Most companies will take you to court especially if they are legit.


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## macca666 (Mar 30, 2010)

Kerr said:


> There is plenty of examples of private firms taking people to court.


Agree with this....there's been a couple of cases recently with hospital parking including this the other day. This post isn't to open a debate or go off topic about whether we agree or disagree its just to show that a company took it to court and the judge ruled in their favour.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ex...tickets-fines-Dundee-hospital-NHS-Tayside/amp


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

The big thing for me is ZZPS are "requiring" me to provide DVLA letter even though I have already shown them a dealer invoice confirming the car was not in my possession a long time before the offence. I have told them I'm not providing them with anything more as I have solid evidence that will stand up in court........yet still they carry on


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

m500dpp said:


> The big thing for me is ZZPS are "requiring" me to provide DVLA letter even though I have already shown them a dealer invoice confirming the car was not in my possession a long time before the offence. I have told them I'm not providing them with anything more as I have solid evidence that will stand up in court........yet still they carry on


if you go to pepino.com they'll sort you out, certainly don't ignore them, and document everything to cover your own back :thumb:

for anyone else who gets a ticket from a PPC, always go to that website i pointed out, so knowledgeable over there, the days of just ignoring them are gone nowadays as they ask on people now ignoring them and then they slyly take people to court if they're sure that the people won't turn up or contest it in any way, then they get a default verdict which then gives them the upper hand, and also, whatever you do, NEVER SAY OR ADMIT YOU WERE THE DRIVER, as that is who is "liable" for it, and at present, you are not under any legal or lawful obligation to tell them who is/was driving :thumb::thumb::thumb:


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

macca666 said:


> Agree with this....there's been a couple of cases recently with hospital parking including this the other day. This post isn't to open a debate or go off topic about whether we agree or disagree its just to show that a company took it to court and the judge ruled in their favour.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ex...tickets-fines-Dundee-hospital-NHS-Tayside/amp


this was probably because they said they were the driver(s) at the time, if they hadn't, they would never have even tried to take them to court, also suspect they didn't know much about the law or get any legal advice


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## macca666 (Mar 30, 2010)

bidderman1969 said:


> this was probably because they said they were the driver(s) at the time, if they hadn't, they would never have even tried to take them to court, also suspect they didn't know much about the law or get any legal advice


Not disputing this it was more my point that firms will go to court.

My feelings are mixed in relation to parts of this post. It's like the speeding / drink driving lawyers who who advertise as specialists and are getting people off through loopholes not because they're actually innocent.

I accept the OP hasn't committed the parking offence so needs to fight it however your suggestion tends to indicate that you can park where you want if you don't admit you were driving and you'll be ok 

My feelings are mixed only because I know there are companies out their with exorbitant charges and potentially targeting people and I agree with challenging this however if you fail to pay to park when required, speed or drink drive then if you get caught you shouldn't get off with it just because of a loophole and I don't agree with companies encouraging this either.

Again wasn't intending to go off topic as that discussion is probably another whole thread :lol:


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Totally agree, I'm just against the extortionate charges which are totally unjustified


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

From Citizens advice web site

_If you recently sold your car
You might have been sent a parking ticket in the post because your car's new owner parked where they shouldn't have. It will have been sent to you if there was a delay in registering the car in their name.

You're not responsible for this ticket, so you should definitely appeal.

Write a short statement explaining that you're no longer the owner of the car.

Send the statement to whoever contacted you about the parking ticket. Their contact details will be on the notice or letter they sent to you.

You should include:

the date you sold the car
the full name and address of the new owner - or the company that sold them your car
a copy of the receipt or invoice for the sale, if you have it
As long as you've sent this evidence, the notice against you must be cancelled. It will then be issued to the person who was driving - known as 'transfer of liability'.

Contact your nearest Citizens Advice if the ticket isn't cancelled - they can help you get legal advice._


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

Got this from ZZPS

_Good afternoon

Please be advised, failure to send us the correspondence that we have requested will leave this account to progress accordingly.

We cannot act on this matter without the DVLA letter.

Please be advised, this account will remain on hold until 12 October to allow time for you to send us this letter.

Regards

Tony Clifton.

_

My response:
_Good afternoon to you.

Please be advised the only way for this account to "progress accordingly" is for you to cancel the charge. I have stated on many occasions that you have all the information required. Quoting from Citizens advice website:

If you recently sold your car
You might have been sent a parking ticket in the post because your car's new owner parked where they shouldn't have. It will have been sent to you if there was a delay in registering the car in their name.

You're not responsible for this ticket.
Write a short statement explaining that you're no longer the owner of the car.

Send the statement to whoever contacted you about the parking ticket. Their contact details will be on the notice or letter they sent to you.

You should include:

the date you sold the car
the full name and address of the new owner - or the company that sold them your car
a copy of the receipt or invoice for the sale, if you have it
As long as you've sent this evidence, the notice against you must be cancelled. It will then be issued to the person who was driving - known as 'transfer of liability'.

You will be aware by the copy invoices supplied that I have already supplied provide you with the required information, there is no legal or other requirement for me to supply you with anything else. It should also be noted that delays in updating DVLA records happen frequently and the proof I have provided over rides anything that might be obtained from DVLA. You will also appreciate that I cannot have any idea of who might have been driving the car since I didn't own it!

I should also mention that all correspondence after I sent you the invoices concerned represent harassment.

Regards

Dave

_


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Good man !


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

Just as an update they are still chasing me as registered keeper, DVLA records are out of date. I have received a letter from DVLA confirming I ceased to be RK before the parking contravention, and have not sent it to them on the basis they already have the information they need, but I have informed them I have it!

I have done a lot of research on these people, I summarise my findings below in case others are unfortunate enough to fall foul of their tactics:

- Their modus operandi is to try and threaten and intimidate people into paying, much of the time they have no legal case, but they don't let that get in their way.
- Tactics involve ignoring or discounting anything you send them,threatening and adding additional charges, Solicitors letters from Wright Hassell (yes really, google them and look at the Google feedback)
- ZZPS this year have issued 7000 tickets, of which only 1 (yes 1 not a typo) have been taken to court. Be aware though other companies do take legal action more often but the courts do not like these companies and their success rate is less than 50%.
- There are two excellent websites with information on these parking charges and fighting them, pepipoo and MSE.

I am now in sport mode and am wasting as much of their time as I can, should a sols letter be issued I will complain to the sols governing body etc. Be aware it's pointless complaining to the BPA, they are funded by these scum companies so will always support them.

Hope this helps someone, sometime, if you do get a demand, dont pay!


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

R5_RXK said:


> private firms will only send threat letters, very rare that they take further action as is not worth their while..usually most people get scared and pay up because of the demanding letter so their tactics work most of the time.


This is old and incorrect advice!
The law changed when the government banned wheel clamping on private land.

You should not ignore the letters.
Appeal with POPLA and get a reference number.

You have a cast iron case provided you have proof that you traded the car


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

In my case as I didn't own the car I wasn't aware of the windscreen ticket, first I knew was the demand from ZZPS which was received more than 28 days after the event, so too late for POPLA appeal. As I understand it you must appeal to the parking company, they will reject it no matter what, then you will get a reference number. POPLA appeal will cost you nothing but will cost the parking co £27, so well worth doing!

It's interesting that they know I have an absolutely cast iron case and they have seen the evidence yet they refuse to give up.................

Of course the govt could stop all this, just remove their access to DVLA records. Private parking companies are absolute low lifes..........


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

The OP is getting a shedload of bad advice on here which is leading to him getting into a situation he won’t want to be in. 

You’ve not got a parking ticket, stop calling it a ticket, stop responding to them as if you think it’s a valid ticket. 

What you’ve got is an invoice. Company knows many people will eventually get scared and pay up. 

ZZPS can only win court action against the person who agreed to their contract. That is the person who parked the car, assuming ZZPS had the proper signs to create the contract. 

Ignore ZZPS. If you get a court summons, go along and show the court your invoice showing the trade-in. Go home happy. To win their case ZZPS would have to prove you were the driver. It’s not up to you to prove you weren’t the driver. 

Stop listening to the bull**** advice you’re getting from people who don’t have a scooby doo what they’re talking about. Everyone who has been done in court has been the driver. You weren’t driving. 

I’d stop baiting ZZPS, you’ll just open yourself up to your words being twisted. Just ignore them. 

People saying he shouldn’t ignore them and he should document all attempts to resolve it need their heads looked at. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

y


Nanoman said:


> The OP is getting a shedload of bad advice on here which is leading to him getting into a situation he won't want to be in.
> 
> You've not got a parking ticket, stop calling it a ticket, stop responding to them as if you think it's a valid ticket.
> 
> ...


While I agree mostly with what you have said:

I don't think calling it a ticket is an issue, it's just not a 'Penalty' charge notice (they try to trick the driver by calling it a 'Parking' Charge Notice and having it in the same yellow and black design). Only courts can issue penalties.

I'm not sure if ignoring them these invoices is the most hassle-free way of handling it since the change in law.
Just simply by appealing it with POPLA it makes life a little easier. Really you want to avoid going to court just purely on the basis of your time involved or the hassle of having debt collectors turn up etc (I know they don't have the same powers as bailiffs and can't do much).

I'm now not sure if they have to prove who the driver was, just merely being the registered keeper maybe sufficient for the court to rule against you (I'm not 100% sure what the legal standing is now). Just saying they have to prove the driver *may not* be enough, the registered keeper will probably have to disclose who the driver was.
I'm guessing the government must have closed a few of the loopholes in exchange of banning the clamping as a compromise for the PPC's

However in the OP's case, just the mere fact he didn't even own the car at the time makes it very very easy should it go to court - The PPC is just trying to intimidate the OP into paying.

UPDATE:

Just checking on the web, and in England and Wales - The owner is initially liable and in Scotland it's the Driver, but there is a lot of conflicting advice (it's alleged that the PPC's have set up fake appeal sites)!


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

> However in the OP's case, just the mere fact he didn't even own the car at the time makes it very very easy should it go to court - The PPC is just trying to intimidate the OP into paying.


Exactly, no chance of me ever paying for this..........quite happy to go to court but I doubt they would risk it.


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## camerashy (Feb 9, 2014)

m500dpp said:


> Exactly, no chance of me ever paying for this..........quite happy to go to court but I doubt they would risk it.


Good Man


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

kh904 said:


> y
> 
> While I agree mostly with what you have said:
> 
> ...


What info says owner liable? How can someone who owns a car be liable for someone else who's using the car and who parks it? "Contract" can only be "formed" with the driver, that's why you never admit to driving the car and cannot legally be forced to tell the PPC who was


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/millions-parking-tickets-illegal---5199090

I agree with your reply bidderman, according to other sites it's the driver hence I said maybe the registered keeper is liable.
I don't know if there are any cases where it's gone to court and the registered keeper has not admitted being the driver (and also not given details of the driver was).


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

The RK can under certain circumstances be liable, this refers:

http://parkingfine-appeals.co.uk/keeper-liability-explained/

Very difficult for the parking company to win though, and note

POFA state that the Registered Keeper is *presumed* to be the Keeper unless shown otherwise

so in my case ZZPS are trying to come after me as the RK but DVLA records are out of date. From the above since I have provided them with details of when I sold the car I ceased to be RK at that date regardless of what DVLA say. This was 6 weeks before the "infringement". Just another example of how they try and scare people into paying.


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