# Junkman Discusses Sealant/Wax Applications - Including the Hype!



## Junkman2008

In this video, I go into a detailed discussion about sealants, the application of the sealant that I'm using and the hype associated with waxes and their claim to make your paint shine. Wax is a protectant. That is the only thing that I use wax for. I get all the shine that I'm going to get out of my paint from polishing it. In this video, I start with my paint perfectly polished and then I add the sealant. As you will see, there will be no difference with the before and after shots once I'm done. This proves my point. Polishing creates the shine in your paint and wax protects the shine you get from polishing.

Sit back and be amazed as everything you've heard about waxes gets debunked. :thumb:






The Junkman :wave:


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## Dave KG

Many people have been saying for years that waxes make little or not difference to the appearance of well prepped paint  Others believe they see a difference, which cannot always be picked up by camera/video camera... It has been, and will remain a subject of debate, I just reckon people can keep doing what makes them happy


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## Junkman2008

Dave KG said:


> Many people have been saying for years that waxes make little or not difference to the appearance of well prepped paint  Others believe they see a difference, which cannot always be picked up by camera/video camera... It has been, and will remain a subject of debate, I just reckon people can keep doing what makes them happy


Dave, I agree with you 100%. :thumb:


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## james_death

Totally agree whatever makes you happy.

The times i have been told man your motor really shines even in the dark and thats even when dirty.

All down to having the shine instilled from the machine... still shiny and thats a daily driver with defects and even scratches below the lacquer.

Lots of variables including the pleasure of application the smell and simple feel good factor.

We still go out and try many many different products it is an addiction after all....:lol:


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## lowejackson

Enjoyable and informative as expected.

Seem to have lost quite a of weight since I last watched your videos


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## spursfan

Another goodun Junkman.
I also agree that the prep is 99% of the finished article, the LSP's looks are subjective in my view.
FK1000p definitely leaves a glassy finish, whereas Road and Track gives more depth IMO.

Kev


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## aetolofitis

Fantastic video Junkman.


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## Junkman2008

lowejackson said:


> Enjoyable and informative as expected.
> 
> Seem to have lost quite a of weight since I last watched your videos


Thanks mates! Yes, I was bitten by a brown recluse spider and lost 20 pounds! That sucked!


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## rob3rto

Junkman2008 said:


> Thanks mates! Yes, I was bitten by a brown recluse spider and lost 20 pounds! That sucked!


Glad to see you have recovered from the poison. Need more of your BBQs now to fully recover


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## Junkman2008

rob3rto said:


> Glad to see you have recovered from the poison. Need more of your BBQs now to fully recover


That's what helped me recover. You didn't see the video?


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## Lowiepete

Well, that was food for thought and no mistake! In one part of the video you
quote us chapter and verse from the instructions, informing us that any small
deviation from this is bound to lead to poor results. Then, you spend the rest
of the time debunking the other wording on the product bottle as pure hype. 

The latter was, imo, well over-simplified. Why wouldn't the product be 
developed with darker colours in mind? As you said right at the beginning, the 
shine on the paint is merely light refraction. Light colours refract the light, as 
we perceive it, quite differently to dark colours - think black and silver. 

The problem with modern potions is that there's a whole array of chemicals in
them that can perform all sorts of magic tricks with our eyes. That's why I 
looked a little askance at your assertions about product comparisons. I reckon
that CG Blacklight is very similar to Wet Glaze 2 - both in looks and in product
performance. I've been derided as an heretic over saying this, though I still
stand my ground, firmly!

I've found this affect of chemical formulas quite marked when using waterless 
washes. Those without carnauba and indeed kaolin clay in their content, 
(deemed as "natural" substances) rely upon chemical brighteners for their 
finish. The end result being an artificial looking glassy finish. Have they added 
to the shine? No, they've just bent the light refraction to change the 
perception of the shine that we see. Usually, there's a drawback in that they 
also show every possible imperfection.

So, although your product can't tell the colour over which it's coated, our
eyes could well perceive a difference. There could well be a chemical in the 
mix that helps us see a more satisfying light refraction on dark colours. That's 
the bit that was missed out. Oh, and please don't read this as me saying that
you should always believe every word on a product bottle. I'm no less aware 
of hype than anyone else.

Also, there's a huge difference between application by hand and by machine,
to the point of there being no comparison. At the end of your machining, I
was wondering whether or not there would be _any_ product left. If it doesn't
go into the paint where does it go? 

One final point, what was the purpose of using the Zaino? (I'm not too aware
of the product range and their purposes). Why you were using it didn't come
across too clearly and I was left wondering whether or not its use would blur 
more edges.

That was nevertheless a brave video to make, though I fear the debate will 
still run and run...

Regards,
Steve


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## Junkman2008

The reason that I used Zaino's Z6 is because the instructions say to use HT's quick detailer and wipe the panel down after buffing. I didn't have HT's quick detailer so I used what I like to use, which is Zaino's Z6. That was the purpose of Z6.

Secondly, what I said about deviating from the instructions was *to make sure that you had a specific reasoning for doing so.* In other words, I deviated from using HT's quick detailer because I knew that any decent quick detailer would suffice. That was my reasoning. I can explain that all day long.

Last of all, and I say this to anyone who feels differently than with my opinion is to put your body in a video just as I did and prove me wrong. We can sit and speculate until the cows come home but who do you think I'm going to believe? Something you say or my lying eyes? So speculation aside, break your theory out on a hi-def video as I did and offer me something I can see. Because when it's all said and done, we can both walk up to a window, look out at the sun shining brightly and neither one of us can deny that it is not raining. That's unless one of us has decided to stick our head in the sand.


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## S3kel

I loved the videos,junkman,taking time to show us guys starting off ,how its done ,thank you and keep up the ,great work..


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## rob3rto

Junkman2008 said:


> That's what helped me recover. You didn't see the video?


I did, was merely trying to give you an excuse to bust out the grill again


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## AllenF

Imo and it is just imo
Some waxes can seem to warm or cool they shine especially on silvers and gold shades. Ia was always taught that the wax is a sacrificial coat that "protects" the shine that you install with the prevoius steps .sealant does what it says ans seals the paintwork. Another debate though seeing as paint is a living thing that wants to breathe is it always a good thing to seal it.........
IMHO if you can see a difference with a certain wax then go with it. If not not to worry you have done your groundwork correctly and have possibly the highest shine you will achieve. But always better to put something over the top of freshy machined paint to give it a sacrificial coating.


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## Junkman2008

I will agree with the fact that you do need to protect your paint with some type of wax.


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## Ultra

Are you saying that a lsp whether it be a wax or a sealant cannot alter the look
of a well prepped surface ?


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## Junkman2008

dennis said:


> Are you saying that a lsp whether it be a wax or a sealant cannot alter the look
> of a well prepped surface ?


Of a perfectly prepped surface? That's EXACTLY what I'm saying. Furthermore, if you believe that there is one wax out there that does, do a unedited video just as I have done and prove me wrong. Or, explain the REASON or chemical reaction that happens, which makes your LSP of choice create a better shine.

Mixing two chemicals together is one thing. I don't know what would happen if you mixed a carnuba paste on top of a polymer sealant. A change may occur because you are mixing TWO or more chemicals and thus, there is a logical POSSIBILITY that a change is occurring. But to put ONE chemical on a perfectly prepped and naked finish and expect it to make the paint shinier HAS NO LOGICAL REASONING. What is the product doing, breathing air and changing it's appearance? It definitely isn't mixing with the DRY clear coat or paint. If the product is making the paint shinier, there has to be a reason WHY and that reason is going to be some type of chemical reaction. EXPLAIN THAT REACTION if you are of the crowd that believes in the 'wax makes your paint shine' theory.

Every action has a foundation and I have yet to see ONE person post that reason concerning this subject. Just because a manufacturer says so does not make it true. Just ask all the people who bought stock in the Enzyte natural supplement for male enhancement stock. Man, did they ever get duped. I can prove to you a thousand ways how V/I=R, how RxI=V and how VxI=P. That is the foundation of every electronic circuit on the planet. It is called Ohm's Law and the name of the law is NOT what makes it true, it's the fact that you can apply it to any circuit and SEE with your *own eyes* by using electronic readings that it is in fact true. There is a science behind it that has been proven and can be proven over and over again.

So, where do you stand???


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## jamieblackford

Love your videos Junkman, do you always apply your LSP via machine? If so what advantages does this have over application by hand, more of an even coat?


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## Ultra

Go easy junkman, i did not say that you are talking nonsense and i do perfecltly understand what you are saying, however for a side by side comparison if i lay down
two coats of victoria concours wax on one side of my cars bonnet/hood and do the same on the otherside only this time using collinite 845 i can see a difference minimal
but there is a difference colly will add more gloss than the vics wax imo, whether you agree with that does not matter to me ( no offence meant ) i like many others and yourself have selected products that you find pleasing to use based what you want from a product ie looks,durability,ease of use.


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## Junkman2008

jamieblackford said:


> Love your videos Junkman, do you always apply your LSP via machine? If so what advantages does this have over application by hand, more of an even coat?


I have noticed no difference whatsoever when applying a LSP by hand or machine. I apply a LSP as instructed by the manufacturer.



dennis said:


> Go easy junkman, i did not say that you are talking nonsense and i do perfecltly understand what you are saying, however for a side by side comparison if i lay down
> two coats of victoria concours wax on one side of my cars bonnet/hood and do the same on the otherside only this time using collinite 845 i can see a difference minimal
> but there is a difference colly will add more gloss than the vics wax imo, whether you agree with that does not matter to me ( no offence meant ) i like many others and yourself have selected products that you find pleasing to use based what you want from a product ie looks,durability,ease of use.


That's fine but I present you with this scenario. If you stick a straw in a glass of water, the straw appears to be bent. We both know that the straw is not bent. Why then is this visually so? Our eyes are using light to see various objects all the time, but when this light travels through different mediums (such as water & air) it changes direction slightly. Light refracts (or bends) when it passes from water to air. The straw looks bent because you are seeing the bottom part through the water and air but the top part through the air only. Air has a refractive index of around 1.0003 while water has a refractive index of about 1.33.

So by looking at your bonnet through 2 coats of Victoria Concours Wax, could it be that the refractive index is playing tricks on your eyes when in fact, your shine is no different on either side? There has to be a reason you are seeing a difference. If you were to say that the wax was making your paint to appear more shiny because of this reason, I would be quick to recognize that as being a possibility. I could not debate you on that.


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## VenomUK

Dave KG said:


> Many people have been saying for years that waxes make little or not difference to the appearance of well prepped paint  Others believe they see a difference, which cannot always be picked up by camera/video camera... It has been, and will remain a subject of debate, I just reckon people can keep doing what makes them happy


Absolutely!! I just see it as another layer of protection :thumb:


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## tzotzo

I think you need to define shine guys first. 
I haven't seen the whole video yet, but I have to agree with Junkman, that you can't prove someone wrong without solid proof, such as videos and photos.

Saying you re wrong the academic and philosophic line, only makes anyones opinion just biased and unreliable .

Go get your cameras an prove Junkman wrong. 

thanks for taking the time to film and post it on here.


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## Junkman2008

tzotzo said:


> ... thanks for taking the time to film and post it on here.


Thanks for watching.


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## Nally

Junk man is awesome ( funny rant about dating )
A lot of people who know nothing about detailing and buy a spray wax and think they know it all ( no your paint is still swirled as **** fool )need to watch this.


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## gordonpuk

Shine or luster?
If I waxed a blackboard it wouldn't look the same after, So what's changed?

(I don't wax blackboards, this is strickly Avant Garde thinking, maybe French polishers have been deluding us for years and there is shiny wood)


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## Swanicyouth

Why did they pull this video off AutoGeek? Any idea? (At least I can't find it there anymore. )


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## Junkman2008

Swanicyouth said:


> Why did they pull this video off AutoGeek? Any idea? (At least I can't find it there anymore. )


I was wanting to know the exact same thing. I got no PM or anything. When I pull a guy's thread, I always shoot him a PM and let him know why. That way, he doesn't repeat the same mistake again. I won't be posting anymore videos there because I don't know what's acceptable and what is not.

I mean really, can a brutha' get a PM???


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## Ultra

That's fine but I present you with this scenario. If you stick a straw in a glass of water, the straw appears to be bent. We both know that the straw is not bent. Why then is this visually so? Our eyes are using light to see various objects all the time, but when this light travels through different mediums (such as water & air) it changes direction slightly. Light refracts (or bends) when it passes from water to air. The straw looks bent because you are seeing the bottom part through the water and air but the top part through the air only. Air has a refractive index of around 1.0003 while water has a refractive index of about 1.33.

So by looking at your bonnet through 2 coats of Victoria Concours Wax, could it be that the refractive index is playing tricks on your eyes when in fact, your shine is no different on either side? There has to be a reason you are seeing a difference. If you were to say that the wax was making your paint to appear more shiny because of this reason, I would be quick to recognize that as being a possibility. I could not debate you on that.[/QUOTE]

Interesting answer and fully understood, so there is the answer the refractive index varies between lsp's, this is what make the difference between lsp ?
and why one will give a different look to another.


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## Junkman2008

dennis said:


> Interesting answer and fully understood, so there is the answer the refractive index varies between lsp's, this is what make the difference between lsp ?
> and why one will give a different look to another.


That is a view that I am ready to accept. I have no way of proving it but I have no way of disproving it either. It has a solid foundation as far as science or theory goes and that's all I ask for when someone makes the claim. I just can't stand it when someone says, "Well I've detailed cars for 50 years so I know what I'm talking about!"

I just roll my eyes at THAT guy.


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## Ultra

Junkman2008 said:


> That is a view that I am ready to accept. I have no way of proving it but I have no way of disproving it either. It has a solid foundation as far as science or theory goes and that's all I ask for when someone makes the claim. I just can't stand it when someone says, "Well I've detailed cars for 50 years so I know what I'm talking about!"
> 
> I just roll my eyes at THAT guy.


A interesting debate junkman, so does that mean that you won't be trying any new products and just sticking to a few favourites.


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## Junkman2008

I've always stuck to a few favorites. The only product that I've ever bought was Meguiar's. Everything else that you see me use was sent to me by someone or some company. I have so much crap in my garage I could open a store. As I go through the products, I make videos of stuff that I feel is worthy of a video. If it's crap, I give it to my non-detailing friends. They wouldn't know a swirl if it started the car and drove off.


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## tzotzo

Junkman2008 said:


> I've always stuck to a few favorites. The only product that I've ever bought was Meguiar's. Everything else that you see me use was sent to me by someone or some company. I have so much crap in my garage I could open a store. As I go through the products, I make videos of stuff that I feel is worthy of a video. If it's crap, I give it to my non-detailing friends. They wouldn't know a swirl if it started the car and drove off.


well since you don't buy your goods, doesn't that make you biased and subjective?

Don't take it wrong its an honest question.


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## Ultra

Junkman2008 said:


> They wouldn't know a swirl if it started the car and drove off.


 like that :lol:


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## Junkman2008

tzotzo said:


> well since you don't buy your goods, doesn't that make you biased and subjective?
> 
> Don't take it wrong its an honest question.


Not in the slightest. As matter of fact, it just the opposite. If a product I am sent sucks, I am under no obligation to say otherwise. It's not like I'm getting paid to do this. I can contact the person who sent it to me and say, "Hey, this stuff sucks!" and move on. I don't have to make a video and bad mouth their product to the world, I can give them my honest opinion and move on. If the product is good, cost effective, easy to obtain and easy to use, I can show how I used it and give my good and bad of the product. Sorta like the product in this thread. There's nothing really bad about the product, I just don't care for the misleading marketing. Also, I don't do this stuff for a living so it's not like I need a whole lot of products. A bottle of something is going to last me well into my car's life span because I don't have to constantly fix my paint (like some people do). I wouldn't be surprised if some of the stuff I have will run out of shelf life before I finish using it.

I buy a quart of M205 about once every year and a half. I buy my car wash soap locally and I replace my wash mitts every year. Little stuff like window & carpet cleaner, tire dressing and other nick-nacks I have plenty of. I have enough polishes and waxes to do a fleet of cars for years. Add to all that, I know not all of the products are manufactured by the companies that send them to me. So a lot of stuff I have looks, smells and works just like something else I have in another bottle. For that reason alone, I am not going to bad mouth one because another one I decide to use could be the same exact product. Have you watched this video? I make that perfectly clear in this video.

So I am under no pressure whatsoever to oblige myself to any brand. This was a problem with the owner of Adam's because I would not do videos on everything they sold. I told him that frankly, some of his stuff sucked. I wasn't going to bad mouth the stuff I didn't like, I was just going to do videos on the stuff I did like. He didn't like that and after awhile, I decided to quit making videos for him completely. Talk about ungrateful, there's just too much stuff out there to choose from for anyone to get all bent out of shape about one brand. The reason I chose to use Meguiar's personally is because I have a Mirror Glaze distributor about 3 miles from my house. That means no shipping cost and I can get any of their professional stuff on the spot. Add to that, the stuff works as advertised and they don't use a lot of fluff in their advertising. It's kinda like a blue collar product.

So am I biased and subjective? Not at all. One thing you'll hear me say if you ever watch my videos is that there are a multitude of products out there that will take you to Shineville. Some are like riding in a Bentley on the highway and some are like riding through the woods in a Jeep. Some are like riding off road in a Range Rover and some are like taking the Autobahn in a Porsche. There are lots of different ways to get to Shineville and the only thing you have to do is choose how you want to look when you get there. :thumb:


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## Ultra

So junkman, at what point did you realise that there are a lot of products out there that do not live up to the hype ? also how did you get into making video's


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## Junkman2008

dennis said:


> So junkman, at what point did you realise that there are a lot of products out there that do not live up to the hype ? also how did you get into making video's


I know from all the different fields that I have worked in that there is hype in every industry on the planet. That was not a new thing to me at all. As for the videos, I had a guy ask me how I washed my car. I started answering his post by writing it down. After the first 12 paragraphs, I realized that I was on the way to writing War & Peace. I decided that a video would be a lot quicker. At that point, 'a brutha' in his garage productions' was born. :thumb:


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## Deep blue

Interesting thread.

I have always been a fan of your videos Junkman and still will be:thumb:. However this time I have to disagree with you, until you prove me wrong.

We all know that polishing is the key to shine on paint correction, just like you said on your video. So scratches does reduce the shine. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that one. *However is a perfectly polished paint as shiny as it can be after all? Does it reflex as much as it could*. Or could wax/sealant add a tiny bit of a shine onto the paint. Ratios something like 90% to 10% for example.

What about just waxing not that perfect paint? We all know that it makes your paint look better and it will have more wet look, dont we? Im not talking about waxes with filling abilites now. So if it does add shine on your not polished paint, why it wouldn't add shine on your perfectly polished paint? Do polished paint have ability to maximum 100% reflection of light? I wouldn't be so sure.

What comes to the shinemeters. Despite what you said, it would be nice to have some numbers that how much shinier waxing does your paint, if at all. Can we really talk about 10% or just a 0.1%? Who knows?

So I came up with an idea. Promise not to laugh 
This would be nice to see this on Mythbusters. They already measured the shine of polished grab/turd, so this time they could test waxes:lol: For real think about it. Best is that they are "normal" people and they don't know about all the fuss about waxes/detailing...

It's good to have you back from the hospital Junkman:thumb:

Cheers! 
Markus


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## Junkman2008

Deep blue said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> I have always been a fan of your videos Junkman and still will be:thumb:. However this time I have to disagree with you, until you prove me wrong.
> 
> We all know that polishing is the key to shine on paint correction, just like you said on your video. So scratches does reduce the shine. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that one. *However is a perfectly polished paint as shiny as it can be after all? Does it reflex as much as it could*. Or could wax/sealant add a tiny bit of a shine onto the paint. Ratios something like 90% to 10% for example.


And there is the million dollar question. It may not be a question of does wax add any shine, it may be a question of HOW MUCH shine does a wax add. If I need some fancy shine meter to see those results, then FOR ME the work is definitely not worth it. I have yet to have a woman come up to me and say. "Wow, that sealant you used really added some pop to your shine! Here are my panties!" If they were doing that, I'd be buying and testing every type of sealant/wax out there. But if the human eye cannot see a ********** difference, then I say that all the hype is exactly that... HYPE.



Deep blue said:


> What about just waxing not that perfect paint? We all know that it makes your paint look better and it will have more wet look, dont we? Im not talking about waxes with filling abilites now. So if it does add shine on your not polished paint, why it wouldn't add shine on your perfectly polished paint? Do polished paint have ability to maximum 100% reflection of light? I wouldn't be so sure.


That's an easy one. When you apply a wax or sealant, you use a polishing motion. Even though the wax/sealant has no cutting or filling ability, you are still removing oxidation and whatever else is sitting on the top most layer of the paint. I could take some body lotion and use it to shine my leather boots. When I'm done, my boots will be noticeably shinier. Does that mean that body lotion is great for shining leather? Not at all. The only thing that I have proven is that my boots need some attention.



Deep blue said:


> What comes to the shinemeters. Despite what you said, it would be nice to have some numbers that how much shinier waxing does your paint, if at all. Can we really talk about 10% or just a 0.1%? Who knows?
> 
> So I came up with an idea. Promise not to laugh
> This would be nice to see this on Mythbusters. They already measured the shine of polished grab/turd, so this time they could test waxes:lol: For real think about it. Best is that they are "normal" people and they don't know about all the fuss about waxes/detailing...
> 
> It's good to have you back from the hospital Junkman:thumb:
> 
> Cheers!
> Markus


I agree, it would be nice to have someone prove this discussion either way, using the equipment that can give us some hard numbers. But as I said earlier, I would still need to be able to physically see with my eyes for my mind to be swayed. There comes a point in shining cars that the gain does not match the expense or effort. Once I get to that point in the shine curve, I put my waxes and polishes down and start chasing the ladies. When it's all said and done, that's one of the main reasons that I bought my car. It traps the panties long enough for me to lay down my charm.


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## Deep blue

You're just too old to see the difference that waxing does

Well this discussion could go on forever and in the end, does it really matter? I don't think either that it will. After all this whole detailing thing is just a hobby for the most people here. So taking it too seriously takes all the fun out of it imo.

Nevertheless that this all waxing thing shouldn't be taken too seriously, it's always good to have some discussion. Reading about other people's opinions and their knowledge is the key to learn things and develope on something. 

Nice eh "Corvette" you got there:lol: :thumb:

Cheers!
Markus


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## Junkman2008

Thanks Markus!


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## JakeWhite

I don't really think there is a ********** answer. Many wax/sealant users (myself including) would have got results from the 'placebo effect' but I also think some LSP's do add a little something extra. Like medicine I suppose, alot of scientists say the user will 'get better' because of the placebo effect, whereas others will say it's the chemicals in the drug. Each to their own :thumb: but as always, great vid!


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## Junkman2008

JakeWhite said:


> I don't really think there is a ********** answer. Many wax/sealant users (myself including) would have got results from the 'placebo effect' but I also think some LSP's do add a little something extra. Like medicine I suppose, alot of scientists say the user will 'get better' because of the placebo effect, whereas others will say it's the chemicals in the drug. Each to their own :thumb: but as always, great vid!


Thanks for watching and chiming in mate.


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## fuller9box

Thanks Junkman2008 I reallyenjoyed your video and whilst I have neither the skill or inclination to enter into this debate, your video made me realise that my efforts with a single bucket of water and Fairy Liquid ( insert here your fav brand of dish washing liquid) that I am no way even approaching the waxing stage - for I have yet to even polish! My interest in the subject though remains high - the idea of creating a panty depository excites me though! Thanks again


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## Junkman2008

Thanks mate and welcome to the forum! :wave:


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