# Ultimate Shine - Ultimate Detail



## Ultimate Shine (Jun 3, 2008)

http://s624.photobucket.com/albums/...s/blackgtr/?action=view&current=NVEExport.flv

Hi All,

By now you will be thinking that I am only now doing detailing work on Nissan GTR's but this one was special I can assure you.

The customer had contacted me regarding his car as he was complaining about the orange peel on the sides of the car and asked if I could do anything with it. He told me the car was black and having heard that the black paint was very soft I was keen to get my hands on it.

A few before shots of the car,









































































































































The car had very few marks on the paint but just the odd washing mark from the 2 times he had washed the car. I was impressed that the customer had invested in some quality products from serious performance including a foaming lance.

Anyway onto the citrus degreaser & Meg's APC mix pre-wash @70oC this was to make sure I could remove as much ingrained dirt without having to rub hard.
























































This was done twice with a 5 min dwell time each and then an intensive rinse 











Then onto the finer points with Meg's APC @ 8:1 and a small soft detailing brush






































Car then rinsed again to get rid of all the remaining dirt from the crevices.
Next was time to move onto the wheels











Wheels soaked with new Wheel Cleaner on test left to soak and rinsed











Process repeated and using a selection of brushes to clean and rinse

Next picture actually stopped my heart for a split second as I thought my cleaner was too strong,











Thankfully it is the paint finish on the wheels below the clear coat the colour has run and then been finished.

Car re-foamed again this time using a new cherry foam wash @ 60oC and as the sun was coming out I decided to plug the water purifier in to wash with pure water. This way nothing dries funny on the car and is a lot better to wash with filtered water.











2BM was used and a nice sheepskin wash mitt with my cherry foam wash lukewarm in the bucket and a rinse bucket.











At this point I had foamed the car up 3 times and rinsed it twice and the rinse bucket looked like this after half the car.











This is a reassuring reason for always adopting the 2bm. Clear buckets are also a great idea as you can see the water colour.

Tardis was used at this point on the car and wheels and where the number plate sticky tape was. This was then wiped off using a general microfiber and then rinsed again.

Meg's Blue Clay used with purified water to remove the very little contamination left on the paint surface.

Car taken in and dried,











Car patted dry with drying towel











A few defects were visible from the customers washing and some of my washing.











Paint depths taken in various spots to get a feel for the depth of the paint. 

Paint was all over the place in depth from 190um to 118um but mostly the average was 155um











There was about an hour and half left of my day so instead of cracking on with the wet sanding task I thought I would try out my full range of brilliant metal polishes. 

I spent an hour and a half doing 1 tailpipe to find the best solution for achieving the maximum shine. In the end this was done by using metal restorer first on a metal polishing head on the drill and once I was happy with the overall shine I then cleaned the polishing head with apc and water and using a file to clean the polish out of the fibres while the drill was on and then rinsed and dried. Then I moved onto the aluminium polish and using the drill and polish head I played with different speeds and pressure to find the one that left the flawless finish. I tried to finish with the premium metal polish but it made the finish not as sharp as the aluminium polish. 

What a fiddly job but worth it in the end. What do you think. One on the right is how it left Nissan











Left at a reasonable time to make sure the family seen me for tea as the next day was going to be a long one.

Day 2

Car dusted off using a duster and taped up one side to get on with the wet sanding











*wet and dry was used with a bit of 4x2 dressed timber to remove the orange peel.*











Only joking no I used fine grade first to see how the paint reacted with an abrasive disc. I then found the harder grade and then onto the fine grade was the solution making sure the surface was wet at all times. This was always done by DA and speed 3 so you could not get carried away and keep everything under control. When I wet sand I always use the industry standard buffing pattern as this is the way cover all areas evenly. I spent the rest of the day playing with this one side and took paint reading regularly I am always very wary of what could happen.

I think the craziest thought is when I sat back and looked at this £65k car that was nearly brand new with blue tape and sanding marks all over it. 

I know with owning a Solid Black Van if I was to remove the orange peel completely the soft paint on the car would make it impossible to maintain as I have wet sanded the tailgate of my van flat and polished, it has German paint but even with a great lsp you still need to touch it and it mark's. Every time I wash my van now I just foam up @ 60oC and rinse and do the same again and then every 6 weeks it gets a touch wash and polished by DA.




















Day 2 finished and I now knew the plan of attack for the rest of the car.


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## Ultimate Shine (Jun 3, 2008)

Day 3
This started off with a trip up to Polished Bliss in Kintore. When you own a sat nav system and you think if I put the shortest route function in I will get to go the scenic route so after Dundee I pressed shortest route. Oh man did I regret that it was scenic but at times I was down to 1st gear to get up some hills. Got some nice pictures of my clean van in the hills. Notice Nicola my partner pointing at me to watch the sheep on the road































Great meeting with Polished Bliss and was great to talk to a market leading Detailing Company about things and got some great advice about the business "Detailing". As many won't understand it's not all about polishing the business part is something different all together. Great team up there and even though Nicola and Angela kept comparing notes about men and polish I had a great chat with rich about polishing and even got some samples off Clark to try out. 

That place is mental busy I spoke to Clark for 5 mins as he was too busy and the customers kept coming through the door.

One of the main reasons for the journey was the picking of Project Awesome. The bottle in a great logical thinking bottle working the same way as a KMS hair paste bottle. For those that spend £20 on hair products! You will not lose any product and you can control the amount you apply to the pad.Anyway thanks for the great advice and look forward to working together on a few things in the future.

Got back down the road after a long drive and had to go and refine the GTR for Saturday delivery. I went to the unit @3pm thinking it will be a late one. Started refining the car and was happy with the way it was going on DA with green gloss it pad.

Then I took a call from my customer that was booked in at the start of the week telling me his car was still at the body shop. I made the decision I want to make this a special job.

I phoned the customer and explained that the job was coming on perfect but the next week was quite quiet. So I asked the customer if it was possible to keep the car longer to make it something special. This was a toy for him and he said "Paul phone me when you are ready" I wanted to achieve something amazing for the customer and for myself as this colour was the hardest to finish due to the softness of the paint. I wanted to finish on Rotary with 2 coats of Project Awesome and 1 topping coat of Concorso all without marking the paint and if I did I would have to start the procedure again even though I had applied my 2 coats of Project awesome and waited for it to cure for an hour a coat.

*"The Ultimate Detail"*

The ground work was done and the cleaning of the panels and the wet sanding was done. But this was going to be perfect.
I decided to go round the car again and refine even further with fine grade pads





















Paint depths taken again and refined




















Job always kept wet





























Next onto the refining and bring back to a shine. This was done using yellow gloss it pad and Megs 105. The Meg's 105 since release has changed with the most modern release being used for DA and rotary but the earlier product was only for Rotary. Luckily I have a gallon of the stuff as for using on Rotary, the first version is meant to be best on Rotary.



















I then after correcting the side I went onto refining the car with the Rotary using a Gloss it Blue pad.




















But with all the machine polishing the dusting became a serious issue as this dust was going to be my main problem for marking the paint when wiping the polish off the panel.
I spent ages trying different techniques to be able to polish the panel without marring. So it settled down using a blue gloss it pad and meg's 205 but the pad couldn't be too clean of product so I would do a whole side before cleaning but once cleaned it would take about 10 passes to prime the pad again with 205. I tried using water and IPA and last touch a top inspection and all different polishing cloth material to remove the polish once machined. I ended up doing 6 inch x 6 inch squares all over the car machining with about 15 passes quite quickly and medium working up to light pressure. I then quickly had to remove the product off the panel with a brand new face of a harder compound microfiber with no lubrication. I also had to use a fine duster over the area to make sure I didn't drag any product over the corrected section. This was a time consuming process but never once did I give in to the DA and made sure that the paint was 100%.

Now I never took pictures of this process as it took 100% concentration and a pile of brand new microfiber cloths.
Once I had completed down one side using the double halogen lamps I decided to switch to the metal halide lamp due to the heat coming off the halogens. This was a nightmare. The halogens hadn't picked up the fine sanding marks in the paint and when I looked closely I wasn't happy with. Probably most people would not notice unless it was parked beside a metal halide lamp but this was not good enough as this was going to be the ultimate detail. I had to go down the whole side again using 105 on yellow and then 205 on blue. I spent a full day on one side.

Next day was the last check and moving onto finishing product.











My nice bottle of Project Awesome. This stuff is amazing for finish and I knew that it was also quite hard to remove so when it was applied with DA @ speed 5 on a Red Finishing Gloss It pad and left to cure on the panel for 2 hours. Even though 1 hour is enough I wanted to take to the extreme. Once cured wiping off the product was a daunting task as this would be the hardest knowing any mistake would result in removing product and machining again.

This happened on a back quarter and roof so had to machine again and had to reapply the LSP again.

Then after speaking to Rich 2 coats were on the cards, another application and another 2 hours and another wipe off carefully knowing that if I marred the paint then machine polishing and 2 coats of PA would have to be applied.

Many different tequniques for removing without marring the paint I settled on a harder brand new microfiber with every pass with a small squirt of gloss enhancing Gloss it spray and a small squirt of last touch on the cloth not the panel just enough to lube but not effect the LSP.
Talk about difficult knowing that anything on the car it would mar the paint.

Once this was completed I then had to move onto the Concorso topping using Lake Country Finish pad @ speed 3. This was removed instantly with a super plush towel with gloss enhancing spray.











All the refining done now. Sealed exhaust with blackfire metal sealant and wheels with Werkstatt prime and then gloss it finish and then gloss it Concorso.
Tyres dressed with a new dressing on test 3 coats and then buffed to a nice finish.
Glass cleaned and interior dressed and all fabric sealed with 303.

As if I haven't said enough this job was done with no interruptions, with nothing on my mind apart from the job at hand. I put my heart and soul into this job and I wanted it perfect for myself as a challenge due to the soft paint but I knew when it was complete it was going to be the ultimate detail.
This was great a full on challenge that I would not accept anything less than perfection on all surface's.

Next was the photo shoot. I have been studying the camera more to find out the further possibilities and I am getting to grips with RAW imaging.
**All the following pictures have not been edited in anyway i have the raw data to upload to my site**

I called for my faithful assistant on this one to bounce ideas off and to make sure again I was capturing how amazing this car actually looked. TBH the car from any angle looked unreal at times.

The goal of this Ultimate Detail was perfection and I feel I achieved this.

Big thanks to the customer for leaving me to it. I spent in total on this job including taking the photo's 59 hours, well worth any minute and reminded me why I got into detailing. 








































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































My Favorite Picture,











Thanks for looking and comment welcome


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## NIL 7090 (Apr 20, 2007)

What can i say just stunning.


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## wedgie (Apr 5, 2008)

Stunning :thumb::thumb::thumb:


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## Fin2982 (Feb 20, 2009)

awesome work man, best one Ive seen so far...seriously raising the bar

cant wait for project awesome to hit the shelf


sumerising the post I did do but I got logged out!


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## tfonseca (Jul 31, 2008)

Stunning work :thumb:


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## loopyeck (May 25, 2009)

top work paul, you sure made that black pop
mind keep me some of that project x 
keep up the good work dude

alex

edit to say this pic should win a award!!


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## alexf (May 23, 2009)

yep definitely the best ive seen too, the reflections are stunning :argie:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Ultimate Shine said:


>


Am I the only one that thought of some sort of new military cloaking device here... I'm pretty sure the car is _almost _ invisible......

WOW...great work!!!

the car looks amazing (and a tad evil)... but your work is outstanding!!!

:thumb:


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## Sharpy (Mar 25, 2007)

one word - STUNNING!


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## k10lbe (Jun 10, 2009)

fantastic work !!


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## Buck (Jan 16, 2008)

Great work Paul - really like the attention to detail you lavished - those must be the best tail pipes I have _ever _seen!!

The wetsanding and finishing were simply excellent - particularly considering how soft the paint was - credit to you and thanks for sharing


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## WyattEarp (Mar 9, 2008)

Super beautiful finish. Outstanding job well done.:doublesho:doublesho:thumb:


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## Gloss-it (Nov 14, 2008)

Impressive and well done!:thumb: So when you coming over the pond to go through the Signature Class?


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## ribena (May 14, 2006)

wow

that looks very very nice

amazing dedication to the cause :thumb:

can I clarify something, you said you had not removed all the orange peel to ensure future washing won't easily marr the paint. Do you mean leaving the peel will disguise marring a little or that a perfect flat mirror finish will magnify the marring. What did the wetsanding leave you with paint depth wise?

also, do you think you would do another GTR to the same level quicker knowing what you know now. In other words how long do you think was spent experimenting and how long working?

sorry for the questions, just a very interesting and challenging post

wow again 

edit : just noticed its your birthday today which is the same as mine, so Happy Birthday to you and me :wave:


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## paranoid73 (Aug 5, 2009)

Superb :thumb:


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## scotty26 (Jan 20, 2007)

Now I don't normally like these Jap kind of racers but I have to admit that is something else!

The work that you have put into that is stunning - a real credit to you

:thumb::thumb::thumb:


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## Ghostrider (Dec 17, 2006)

great work !!! absolute stunning !!! btw. happy birthday paul !!!


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Superb sir! It's jobs like these where time isn't an issue and you can really go to town which makes Detailing a great job. These GTR's can be a pain in the a$$ but they dont half come up nice, especially in black!

Hopefully get to speak for longer next time you're up mate :thumb:


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## PaulB (Mar 26, 2009)

unbelievable!!! WOW:doublesho


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## the_prophet (Apr 8, 2007)

that is immense. got to be one of the wettest shines ive seen! 

+1 to the military cloaking device. 

what a great job you've done. if i was the owner i would be over the moon!!!!!


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

The Cueball said:


> Am I the only one that thought of some sort of new military cloaking device here... I'm pretty sure the car is _almost _ invisible......
> 
> WOW...great work!!!
> 
> ...


That was exactly my first thought when i saw the piccie


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## Jody 4444 (Mar 12, 2009)

That has to be one of the best write ups i have read and absolutely stunning work mate :thumb:


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## AlanQS (May 6, 2009)

Bloody marvellous:thumb:

Not a lot else I can say that hasn't already been said


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## bigvw (Mar 19, 2006)

Top job Paul, and saw this car in the flesh, absolute stunning car and l'm no a big lover of jap metal. Very evil looking car, but love it :thumb:

cheers Paul


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## steve from wath (Dec 12, 2008)

WOW
the owner must be over the moon
that car and finish could not look any more stunning
you must be very proud of your work,fantastic
now go have some beers


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## Auto Detox (Dec 22, 2007)

Very nice indeed, I am a little jealous you had all that time on one car, time well spent though excellent result

Baz


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2009)

Stunning work :thumb: and your fav pics was mine too so i thought i would put it on a poter for you if you did'nt mind :thumb:


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## ads2k (Jul 12, 2006)

Incredible finish and amazing wet sanding to obtain it :thumb: and those tailpipes are a work or art.


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## Bluetacker (Feb 6, 2009)

Absolutely amazing work. The finish you have achieved is a real credit to you, and really shows off your sanding and machine polishing skill. I can understand why you really enjoyed having the extra time, as being able to create such a great finish must bring about a feeling of real achievement. The LSP also looks fantastic, and if I wasn't so crunched, would be something I'd be queuing up for come Sep 1st.

Once again, congrats on a top quality detail - one that is very well deserving of the 'ultimate detail' tag imo. :thumb:


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## dbaillie (Apr 6, 2009)

Stunnin


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## VZSS250 (Jan 8, 2008)

I have to disagree with all - the correction is ridiculously aggressive - wetsanding by machine, plus two rounds of M105 on Nissan's soft paint is completely unsustainable and its certain that the paint's life expectancy has been significantly compromised. Further, the paint had not degraded to a point that justified that level of correction. It was not even close to needing one round of M83, let alone wetsanding plus 2 rounds of M105. You could have achieved 95% of the bling with a couple of passes of M80...

Not once in your write-up have you addressed this issue, nor have you explained how the paint can be maintained for the next 10-15 years, now that you've used up so much of its correction capacity.

This detail is very unfair on future owners of this vehicle, and unfair on the current owner as well if they do not properly understand what you have done to achieve the finish they see.

It seems you were regularly taking measurements to ensure you did not strike through, but sustainability is the issue at hand. Do you think this finish can be maintained for the next 10-15 years? Given Nissan paint is so soft? 

My 350Z would have similar paint - its a nightmare to maintain, but Menz FF 85RD is all it takes to bring it up perfect again.


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## Ultimate Shine (Jun 3, 2008)

VZSS250 said:


> I have to disagree with all - the correction is ridiculously aggressive - wetsanding by machine, plus two rounds of M105 on Nissan's soft paint is completely unsustainable and its certain that the paint's life expectancy has been significantly compromised. Further, the paint had not degraded to a point that justified that level of correction. It was not even close to needing one round of M83, let alone wetsanding plus 2 rounds of M105. You could have achieved 95% of the bling with a couple of passes of M80...


Obviously different detailers have different methods of paint correction.

I have studied *ALL* my product's in great depth and understand their use's fully.

Thank you for your comments.


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## Ultimate Shine (Jun 3, 2008)

VZSS250 said:


> now that you've used up so much of its correction capacity.


In relation to the above comment not once did I state in my post how much paint was removed.


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## vxrmark (May 30, 2009)

all i can say is wow wow wow


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## Taylor E92 (Apr 4, 2009)

Wowwwwwwwww, Bloody Gorgous.......................... :doublesho


The effort gone into the GTR, take it the customer is a loyal one, ABSOLUTELY stunning work Paul..........:doubleshowat more can be said!!


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## Smudge (Jun 27, 2006)

Simply breathtaking. both car and work!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## rob10477 (Sep 23, 2008)

well done mate good work.....you ever thought about tutorials?


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## Morph3ous (Jul 6, 2007)

I'd never want to drive the thing, because it is never going to look that good ever again!!


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

VZSS250 said:


> I have to disagree with all - the correction is ridiculously aggressive - wetsanding by machine, plus two rounds of M105 on Nissan's soft paint is completely unsustainable and its certain that the paint's life expectancy has been significantly compromised. Further, the paint had not degraded to a point that justified that level of correction. It was not even close to needing one round of M83, let alone wetsanding plus 2 rounds of M105. You could have achieved 95% of the bling with a couple of passes of M80...
> 
> Not once in your write-up have you addressed this issue, nor have you explained how the paint can be maintained for the next 10-15 years, now that you've used up so much of its correction capacity.
> 
> ...


I totally agree on every point i detailed a CRV over the weekend (pics to follow) it was 99% defect free with a Megs polishing pad and Menz 106FA Final Finish.

The owner wishing to have this car corrected in future is dicing with death on the paint side.

But... Lets not diverse from the post and OP work which is great.


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## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

What a truly astonishing write up..! Wonderful finish and outstanding attention to detail throughout. The work on the exhaust pipes say it all! One of the best write ups I've read on DW 

I bet the client was truly delighted. :thumb:


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## ijaen (Oct 10, 2008)

Could you please elaborate on this:

"When I wet sand I always use the industry standard buffing pattern as this is the way cover all areas evenly."

I have to admit, watching those pics is what motivates me to detail cars...while I'm no professional I get great results but I'm always on the hunt to get better.

Awesome work.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

The after pictures look great  A lot of effort has gone in here to the writeup too!

I agree with the concerns being raised with regard to the correction techniques and the aggressive approach taken - removal of orange peel being the aim, but one must be careful to draw the line in terms of how much paint is being removed... But then on the other side of matters, we do not know how much paint was removed as its not stated so it may be this car has very hard paint and the process removed just a few microns and it was perfectly safe... Did you find for example that the removal rates lessened with later sets, indicating a gradient of hardness across the paint? Or was it consistent?

For the benefits of those reading the thread, especially members who may be contemplating either having this process carried out, or maybe even trying it themselves, could you tell us what the average paint removal rate was for wetsanding, and how this compares to original thickness and your reasoning behind the decisions taken - this would be really helpful for those reading about wet sanding which is a very interesting technique, but in many cases also misunderstood to the point where you can get folk reading a thread and not appreciating the severity of the technique, the skill required to do it properly and the reasonings and decision processes taken for choosing the technique... Would really add a little more to the already good write up for those contemplating the technique


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## Ojai (Feb 24, 2008)

Words cannot describe it. I'm honestly speechless.


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## Simonhi (Jun 6, 2009)

Paul 

Amazing skills and persistence, this appears to be what the pinnacle of detailing can achieve.

Being cheeky do you have the rear three quarter reflection picture in a higher resolution. I would really like to put it on my desktop.

Cheers

Simon.


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## Breezy (Jun 24, 2006)

stunning work as always mate, was the orange peel on the car from factory or had that area been re-sprayed?

Also what polishing heads do you use on your drill for doing the exhaust?


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## Rich @ PB (Oct 26, 2005)

Wow, you weren't joking when you said you had some mental after shots! The debate that has opened up is interesting, although maybe put across a bit unfairly/firmly; when a customer approaches you with a specific set of requirements in mind, you have to carefully asses them and decide (i) whether they can be done, and (ii) whether they can be done safely. If the owner of this car was rather miffed with the free orange peel that came with it, he has every right in the world to have it removed - it's his car after all and, as long as he fully understands the effect the removal process will have on the paint system, he is free to proceed if he can find a detailer capable of doing the work. I detect a compromise on Paul's part in this case; there is clearly some orange peel left on some areas of the car in the after shots, and I for one am assuming the paint was too thin in these areas to allow safe and full rectification. I see no evidence above of someone charging in without an appropriate level of skill or understanding (not always the case on here!) and if the original aims of the detail were met safely then hat's off to a job very well done.


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## RefinedDetails (Dec 17, 2006)

bravo! superb work!!!


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## col85 (Jan 28, 2009)

redonkulous!


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

Wow.......:argie:

Wet sanding what seemed nearly all the car must have took some bottle!

Cheers

PaulN


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## Fat Audi 80 (Nov 8, 2006)

Amazing results!!! One of the best I have seen on here. :thumb:

I too would be interested in the before and after PTG readings (if you are at liberty to share them with us?)

Cheers,

Steve.


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## Phil H (May 14, 2006)

that is stunning mate! just stunning!


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## Ultimate Shine (Jun 3, 2008)

Time to clarify a few matters that have arisen on this thread.

If you read the start of my post i stated,

"The customer had contacted me regarding his car as he was complaining about the orange peel on the sides of the car and asked if I could do anything with it."

He never asked me for a new car protection detail with some fine machine work to correct minor defect's in the paint. So my role was to asses and correct the orangepeel on the sides of the car as everywhere else on the vehicle met his standards. He brought the car to me and asked me to completely remove the orange peel from the sides. I advised that removing it completely would put the paint finish on a fine line of not being able to be corrected again.

The average paint thickness on the sides of the car was 155um as stated in my report. The thickness where the customer was most dissatisfied was 160-169um. I then proceded to remove 10-15um from the paint as i felt this was an appropriate ammount of paint considering the amount of correction this car will need in the following years to come.

As Rich kindly pointed out the customer is the owner of the car and it was at his request to carry out the work, he wanted no orange peel but i advised against it. He picked up his car and was delighted with the job and said that the sides were a lot better.

If this job had been a new car preperation with some minor paint correction i would have tackled it in a different way.:thumb:


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## rossdook (Aug 20, 2008)

WX51 TXR said:


> Wow, you weren't joking when you said you had some mental after shots! The debate that has opened up is interesting, although maybe put across a bit unfairly/firmly; when a customer approaches you with a specific set of requirements in mind, you have to carefully asses them and decide (i) whether they can be done, and (ii) whether they can be done safely. If the owner of this car was rather miffed with the free orange peel that came with it, he has every right in the world to have it removed - it's his car after all and, as long as he fully understands the effect the removal process will have on the paint system, he is free to proceed if he can find a detailer capable of doing the work. I detect a compromise on Paul's part in this case; there is clearly some orange peel left on some areas of the car in the after shots, and I for one am assuming the paint was too thin in these areas to allow safe and full rectification. I see no evidence above of someone charging in without an appropriate level of skill or understanding (not always the case on here!) and if the original aims of the detail were met safely then hat's off to a job very well done.


It seems Rich is spot on to me - you did the right things for the right reasons and for me he hits the nail squarely on the head. The work you've taken us through would make any of the better known professionals on this site proud I'm sure. I agree with most of the membership that these are some of the finest shots we've seen on the site for some time - hold your head high Paul, you've produced an absolute belter! Keep up the good work son :thumb:


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## yetizone (Jun 25, 2008)

Hi. 

I forgot to mention in my first post, can you please expand on the 'metal polishing head' that you used on the drill to work with the Brilliant polishes on the exhausts? What make? Where are they available from etc? Hope you can help :thumb:

PS. Just looked through at the pix again - :doublesho


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## Ultimate Shine (Jun 3, 2008)

yetizone said:


> I forgot to mention in my first post, can you please expand on the 'metal polishing head' that you used on the drill to work with the Brilliant polishes on the exhausts? What make? Where are they available from etc? Hope you can help :thumb:


I am on the case i will let you know over the next couple of days:thumb:


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Ultimate Shine said:


> Time to clarify a few matters that have arisen on this thread.
> 
> If you read the start of my post i stated,
> 
> ...


Now you have me confused. Easy I know but Today you posted up a long explanation to your detailing process. Now this has gone and a totally different explanation is posted.

Earlier today to said the the average reading on the sides where 165 microns. But now it 155. You also when into the fundamental workings of 105 and 205 on the Gloss it pads white and blue.

Where I agree on what you posted in the main earlier. With the SMAT abrasives, working time and technique used. I am still confused to why the second hit of 105. Ok this was to remove sanding marks that where previously missed after the first refining. But sure there was no need to head for the heaver compound. When you could have opted for 205 on a medium cut pad. Taking the cut level on parr or slightly above Menz PO 85RD 3.02.???.
Yes a second hit of 205 would have been required to achieve the desired finish. But by doing this approach you would have save more of the clear.

I will not go into the fundamentals of marketing or the use of photo enhancement with in this post. But I have to say I personally fell this is a bit unfair to the users of Dw that these techniques are used. It also does reflex the true nature of the work you carried out. You have to give the members on Dw some credit and it might be fairer on yourself and others if explained with in your next post.
Gordon.


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## Doc (Feb 2, 2008)

Just a quick question, if you were marring the paint with a soft microfibre removing Project Awesome (which I found really easy to remove) how will the owner go on when he is drying the car himself, being a mr average.
The finished article looks immense, Im just wondering how sustainable that is based on your findings.


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## Ultimate Shine (Jun 3, 2008)

caledonia said:


> Earlier today to said the the average reading on the sides where 165 microns. But now it 155.


Why do you think i removed the comments on the figures i was not at home and i did not have my notes with me so i thought i would confirm figures first.



caledonia said:


> You also when into the fundamental workings of 105 and 205 on the Gloss it pads white and blue.


I never mentioned once about a white pad. After thinking about my reply i thought about the job that was given to me instead of how i done it.



caledonia said:


> I am still confused to why the second hit of 105. Ok this was to remove sanding marks that where previously missed after the first refining. But sure there was no need to head for the heaver compound. When you could have opted for 205 on a medium cut pad. Taking the cut level on parr or slightly above Menz PO 85RD 3.02.???.
> Yes a second hit of 205 would have been required to achieve the desired finish. But by doing this approach you would have save more of the clear.


I am going to start a thread somewhere else called "the science of abrasive and super abrasive technology and how it work's for you"



caledonia said:


> I will not go into the fundamentals of marketing or the use of photo enhancement with in this post.


Please let me know what picture you would like the raw data for, straight from my camera memory stick. As this is the first time i have shot with the raw data and i had removed the number plates there was no need for number plate removal with photoshop. That is an insult and on that note:wave:


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## Ultimate Shine (Jun 3, 2008)

Doc said:


> Just a quick question, if you were marring the paint with a soft microfibre removing Project Awesome (which I found really easy to remove) how will the owner go on when he is drying the car himself, being a mr average.
> The finished article looks immense, Im just wondering how sustainable that is based on your findings.


How did you apply Project Awesome to your car by hand or DA and what pad and if on DA what speed.

Now that the car is coated with 2 coats of awesome for that mega protection and looks drying will be easy with a black barron. This is not an easy car to maintain but not impossible. The correct methods and products have to be used to maintain the finish.


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## caledonia (Sep 13, 2008)

Ultimate Shine said:


> Why do you think i removed the comments on the figures i was not at home and i did not have my notes with me so i thought i would confirm figures first.


I will not go into figure and take on board what you said about your notes. But on this if 10 to 15 micros where removed with wet sanding, as a total thinkness. Then I would recalculate you guage. De nibing might have been the best option on this so only the high spots where removed. After all this was the Ultimate detail as you said. :thumb:



Ultimate Shine said:


> I am going to start a thread somewhere else called "the science of abrasive and super abrasive technology and how it work's for you"



This would make interesting reading. 



Ultimate Shine said:


> Please let me know what picture you would like the raw data for, straight from my camera memory stick. As this is the first time i have shot with the raw data and i had removed the number plates there was no need for number plate removal with photoshop. That is an insult and on that note:wave:


I am sorry you took this as an insult. But please if you are taking this approach then please dont insult the DW membership and give them some credit. This is not your personal web site or a magizine there enhansement is the norm. The problem with photo enhansement its it just does not change the way the car looks it changes the surrounding areas. Ground, wall, as well as the way the car is viewed. I have not said anything about your workmanship up to now and would never coment on this. But as I have already mention it is hard to truley guage the finish as you do not know. Where the editting starts and finishes.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Enhancement you dumb ass lol


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## Ultimate Shine (Jun 3, 2008)

Caledonia - Can you PM me your home address so i can add you to my christmas card list. lol


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## *MAGIC* (Feb 22, 2007)

Very interesting debate i must say.

Robbie


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## VZSS250 (Jan 8, 2008)

Maybe there's been a shift in mood?

A sustainable level of paint correction is now at the forefront of a lot of people's minds.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Maybe if I can seek to address people's concerns with regards to a few things that are being raised in this thread, hopefully then we can get the answers to set minds at ease and add information for the general detailing community as well.

Wet sandings, as one knows, is an aggressive technique and as with all paint correction methods, can result in large paint removal which of course affects the long term life of the paintwork on the vehicle. As long as the owner of the car understand this then of course the detailing process is okay - if of course similar results cannot be achieved with a more gentle method, but I'm sure this was trialled during the testing phases of the detail? What kind of paint depth removal were lighter polishes seeing for example as a comparison, as this would indicate the paint hardness. And then as a comparison the wetsanding removal on its own... Did you see a hardness gradient over the paint?

The wet sanding with abralon discs is a lovely technique, and results in very smooth sanding patterns but one concern raised above was that the soft discs _can_ mould around OP contours, resulting in consistent removal - great, but this does not shift the OP, simply lowers the whole lot down. Block flatting with paper does have a greater tendancy to shift large area OP as it selectively knocks back the high regions. Small area OP, as typically left by a bodyshop from poor spray and finishing tends to sort a wee bit better with the disks. This is just my experience of course, so I am interested to know about the choice of the disks rather than paper flatting as are a couple of posters above.

Regarding the SMAT abrasives being mentioned, I look forward to your writeup on these, as they are a great interest to me and I have been studying and testing them for quite some time now and achieving very interesting results. They are hugely flexible, but different people see different results so its always great to get feedback from others with differing techniques. Could you PM me a link to the thread when you write it, sometimes threads get lost on DW and I would be very interested to read your thoughts 

The metal halide lights are very good, aren't they, I'm glad that you have realised the issues with using halogens for paint finish quality control - halogens hide a shed load! Halides, though still not up to Sun Gun level (which is the ultimate test of a paint finish), give a much fairer impression for quality control which makes detailing much easier and more confidence inspiring. Do you have any after shots of the car completed using the halide lights, to show us how effective they are ar showing the quality of the finish? This brings me to addressing the concern of photography that is being raised above - the pics I always personally look at when reading a detail involvoing paint correction are after shots under a suitable light source, such as the Sun Gun or if this is not possible, at least something like the Brinkman or Halide. Although pictures still do not really tell you much, they do give the best photographic way of assessing a paint finish quality as correct use of lights shows OP (or lack thereof) by focussing on the paint surface and gauging the clarity of the light source reflection (I look for the surrounding detail in the Sun Gun for assessment, very effective), and general focussing of the light source at a distance would highlight the quality of the machine finish in terms of being defect free. If you have such pics, it would be great to see them - I am quite sure the finish on this car is superb, but the pictures in your writeup dont highlight this in anyway for assessment which is what may be raising some folks concerns. I hope you take these comments with the friendly advice with which they are intended - I love to see a good detailer really highlight the quality of their work, I enjoy seeing beautiful looking paint (sad though that may be), and if you have the photographic skills then it would really add something to your writeups if you did show direct light after shots - doesn't need to be many, but a couple here and there would really add something in my opinion that there currently isn't in your writeup here.

The aftershots are lovely - I dont really assess a finish quality from after shots outside, especially if the sun is not shining as it really shows very little. Paintwork can be made to look mile deep with angles and, for example, placing a car in a dark location with brightly lit walls surrounding it (from daylight or artificial light)... Photography is great fun indeed, as a Physicist it interests my curious mind but alas also makes me see all the little photographic skills that are used day to day - though strangely, I know what they are but am completely useless at taking pics myself :lol::lol:

Anyway, I hope this post goes some way to clearing the air a little on this thread, and highlights what I see are people's concerns.


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## tris harris (Sep 13, 2008)

awesome after shots, i would love your skills :buffer:


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## Doc (Feb 2, 2008)

Ultimate Shine said:


> How did you apply Project Awesome to your car by hand or DA and what pad and if on DA what speed.
> 
> Now that the car is coated with 2 coats of awesome for that mega protection and looks drying will be easy with a black barron. This is not an easy car to maintain but not impossible. The correct methods and products have to be used to maintain the finish.


Orbital speed 3 with a red finishing pad, left for 1 hour ish. Easy to remove but then again Sonic Blue is a bit forgiving 
Might give it another coat after reading this.


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## Planet Man (Apr 12, 2008)

Avoiding the debate I think the car looks stunning:thumb:

Thanks for sharing


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Doc said:


> Orbital speed 3 with a red finishing pad, left for 1 hour ish. Easy to remove but then again Sonic Blue is a bit forgiving
> Might give it another coat after reading this.


Try speed 5 mate


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## dubster5 (Aug 10, 2009)

great work and great photography too!


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## Doc (Feb 2, 2008)

Clark said:


> Try speed 5 mate


I will when I get my hands on a proper machine....
The Silverline speed settings are not the best, 3-5 is very little difference but the proof is in the pudding and it looks great!


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## allyrennie (May 20, 2007)

Nice write up Paul, I too love the title of this detail ( Ultimate detail - now who would have thought such a title.......... ).

With regards to the debate and questions being posted, I can understand the reasons for the questions being asked but having seen Paul's methods I can only state that the most care is taken when wet sanding, taking the route of the finest grade papers first and progressing to a more aggressive grade only as and where necessary. Yes this sometimes takes a lot longer and having the luxury of many days allows this to happen, but subsequently allows minimal manipulation of the top coat and also continual monitoring of thicknesses and what is being removed through many light passes with a fine paper rather than trying to achieve complete correction through using a more aggressive grade for time purposes.

With regards to the choice of compounds etc, I will let Paul answer as he wants on this one! With regards to his knowledge of products, have a chat with him about what he uses, why he uses it, the differences between diminishing products, temperature affected products, you will very quickly get a good feeling that he knows what he is talking about. 
Things like panel temperature monitoring during machine polishing is an area that Paul and I have done some work recently on, this is the level that detailing is now getting to in order to achieve the best possible results with minimal manipulation of the paintwork of the vehicle.

I Seen the car pre correction and the pictures don't really do it justice. 

Now can we all go and have a beer and a laugh, please??

Ally


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Panel temperatures is a very interesting area of study, something we have been investigating a great length recently. You have to be very careful of your thermometer choice of course, remembering that some thermometers (eg laser) will give inaccurate panel readings - emissivity changes from material to material. We have found interesting consistencies in our machine sets with regard to temperatures, and also differences with out varying styles, but also varying abraisve types - round vs. sharp. This will naturally affect the correction and finishing abilities. Its all very good research so I look forward to reading your findings on them 

Regarding the questions I raised in my previous, I was hoping that Paul might share some of his knowledge here for the benefit of the forum, I am a great believer in seeing those using the products sharing their thoughts and experiences rather than just saying "x was used, here's the results"... 

I dont doubt that Paul knows what he his doing, I'm quite sure nobody does - thats why the questions are being asked, to get information onto the forum in black and white from those doing the detailing so the techniques can be discussed. 

I'm afraid I have to agree that the pictures in the writeup dont really do the detail any justice - in terms of showing off the actual finish quality beyond the superficial level of "its shiny"... With no direct light after shots, its impossible to gauge the quality of this finish in terms of clarity, being defect free, peel level etc - all things that would really show those reading truly what wetsanding and correct use of the new Meguiars compounds can achieve. The afters are a great photographic demonstration but show little, great reflections for sure, but the exposure seems very long on some with the ground and walls being very bright that its hard again to gauge the finish quality. Seeing the car in the flesh is of course always best, but its impossible on a forum and this is where the direct light after shots come in - the vast majority of the pros posting their work, post after shots of the cars with Sun Gun, or at least Brinkman or Halide, to highlight the quality of the finish they achieve.


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## allyrennie (May 20, 2007)

All good Points David, all valid.

Panel temps are quite surprising when you first start to look at it i'm sure you agree, amazing what heat is in a bootlid for example just sitting in direct sunlight! 

Ally


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

allyrennie said:


> All good Points David, all valid.
> 
> Panel temps are quite surprising when you first start to look at it i'm sure you agree, amazing what heat is in a bootlid for example just sitting in direct sunlight!
> 
> Ally


Yes, its true - I've seen over 100degC on a black bonnet in the sun, but it was a laser thermo that took the reading so I question fully its accuracy... makes you think a little but about the marketing of wheel sealants to resist heat though 

What surprised me recently was my temp consistency - over five sets, different regions, my panel temps were within a degree with the same product and pad combo... have I become a robot?


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## Exclusive Car Care (Jan 14, 2007)

great detail with some great pics


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## Doc (Feb 2, 2008)

Dave KG said:


> Yes, its true - I've seen over 100degC on a black bonnet in the sun, but it was a laser thermo that took the reading so I question fully its accuracy...


Time to crack an egg and make the most of it


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## kevinsmart (Aug 21, 2009)

I'm the lucky owner of this car and I feel really privileged to have received Paul's ultimate detail! 

After the initial excitement of my GT-R delivery in April wore off, I was disappointed to see noticeable orange peeling on the black paint, surface scratches and some contamination/overspray. I'm quite used to and enjoy detailing my own cars but this was beyond my skills.

I contacted Paul after reading recommendations from other GT-R owners. Paul clarified from the outset that he couldn't remove all of the orange peel because he wanted to minimize paint depth reduction, just in case future correction is required- which is most likely on Kuro Black.

The plan was to leave the car with him from Wednesday to Friday while I was away with the family on a short break before they headed back to school. I kept up to date with his Twitter feed.

Paul phoned me on the Friday to ask whether it would be possible to spend more time on the car- he saw it as a personal challenge. The weather forecast was pretty poor anyway, so the car would have just been stuck in the garage, so why not, no hurry, I didn't want to disrupt a craftsman at work! 

The car was ready the following Thursday. As I walked down the street from the station and turned the corner into Paul's unit, there was the shiniest glossiest black GT-R I have ever seen. Who says black hides the GT-R's lines? The finish is like liquid, now with no visible marring and there is some detail not obvious before: the metallic sheen of the skirting, the shiny chrome bumper strip, the awesome tail pipe finish. What a difference a professional detailer makes.

Paul put his all into this detail and the results are amazing. Just a shame that it started raining on the way home, but this didn't detract from the feeling that after a week without the car, I'd now picked up a better than brand new car. My wife remarked on the difference, so job well done!

Again I feel really privileged that my car received this extra special treatment from Paul. Thoroughly recommended and I'll be back.


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## Planet Admin (Jul 11, 2009)

Iv-e fell in love ith these cars.
Outstanding Finish
Like the photo shoots to:thumb:


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## FALCONGTHO (Apr 7, 2007)

Gotta hand it to ya.The wet sanding minimised that peel to make the GTR look even more
sinister!!!Well done....check out that shine....BEEEUTIFUL!!!!!


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## tdekany (Jul 22, 2006)

*Beautiful work!!!! :thumb::thumb:*


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## ahaydock (Jan 4, 2007)

How nice is that - just stunning :thumb:


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## evefreek (Sep 13, 2009)

WOW Stunning work


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## Brizee (Sep 9, 2009)

I know people keep saying 'awesome', and truely it is, but i'd go as far as to say that you've got perfection right there in that detail.

I can't think of any other superlative to express how good that is...it really is the dogs ******!!


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## WHIZZER (Oct 25, 2005)

Top job - worth the effort


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## Brian. (Sep 21, 2009)

As also said on KC, absolutely fantastic work. You're a brave man for sanding such a large area of that car. I'd be pumpin my drawrs. 

Top effort!


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## pdv40 (Sep 11, 2008)

Absolutely gorgeous, amazing work :thumb:

It looks so stealth and sinister in black, I want one!


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## ianFRST (Sep 19, 2006)

holy crap, missed this the 1st time round!!

suberb!


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## gj777 (Feb 16, 2008)

Truly outstanding work - the car looks amazing. :thumb: Why this thread is currently rated at 4 completely puzzles me.


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## Liam (Nov 22, 2008)

WOW!!!!!!!!!!

Awesome job mate well done!


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## Mark M (Nov 29, 2006)

Looks stunning!

Love the van, van porn


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## Nanolex (Jun 8, 2008)

Amazing overall work and especially outstanding paint correction!


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## Phil1984 (Oct 15, 2008)

kevinsmart said:


> I'm the lucky owner of this car and I feel really privileged to have received Paul's ultimate detail!
> 
> After the initial excitement of my GT-R delivery in April wore off, I was disappointed to see noticeable orange peeling on the black paint, surface scratches and some contamination/overspray. I'm quite used to and enjoy detailing my own cars but this was beyond my skills.
> 
> ...


Your one lucky owner having a car as stunning and glossy as that!:thumb:

All i would like to say to the others who were questioning Paul's detail regarding his approach and means of correction to the orange peel is that he obviously knows what hes talking about in his previous posts and by the owner kindly joining this site to show his appreciation and comments to Paul has made everyone else back down as it shows Paul was telling the truth from the Start....Anyway who would want to put their job on the line by lying and posting on a forum? The whole point of this forum with all the Detailers on here is to post pictures of their work to try gain more business, not throw it away!

Sorry for my rant but Paul seriously does deserve respect.....! Its ok questioning but sometimes people take it too far....

Welcome top the site Kev! :wave:


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## Offset Detailing (May 7, 2007)

Incredible work!!!


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## Escort God (Feb 23, 2009)

looks bloody well nice


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## rob10477 (Sep 23, 2008)

Phil1984 said:


> Your one lucky owner having a car as stunning and glossy as that!:thumb:
> 
> All i would like to say to the others who were questioning Paul's detail regarding his approach and means of correction to the orange peel is that he obviously knows what hes talking about in his previous posts and by the owner kindly joining this site to show his appreciation and comments to Paul has made everyone else back down as it shows Paul was telling the truth from the Start....Anyway who would want to put their job on the line by lying and posting on a forum? The whole point of this forum with all the Detailers on here is to post pictures of their work to try gain more business, not throw it away!
> 
> ...


Here Here!


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## Carn (Apr 13, 2007)

Absolutely gorgeous...Incredible work and attention to detail. Well done :thumb:


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

I missed it the first time round.

Great finish and crackin read up.

The paint on these is med/hard according to Nissan. They even have a sticker under the bonnet saying Hard Clear






.

I don't think it is that hard but not a soft as Quashqi paint.

More importantly, did you get to drive it?


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## Caped Crusader (Sep 27, 2009)

An amazing job!!! 

Stunning car too.


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## Nickh2007 (Apr 30, 2007)

59 hours !!!!!

Fantastic.....:buffer:


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## Gary-360 (Apr 26, 2008)

I skipped over this thread when first posted then didn't return until this evening when I read the lot. This is a stunning job, absolutely stunning!

I met Paul at his unit this morning for a couple of hours whilst he was "on the job", his attention to detail is to be commended.

Great meeting you again, next time put the kettle on though 

Gary


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## Rswim21 (Aug 27, 2007)

*Amazing*

so well written, photo's great, true passion and dedication. i am so impressed and this is why i love the hobby! thank you.


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## Yoghurtman (Dec 9, 2008)

Wow, can't believe I missed this thread back in August...

Absolutely stunning results.

Does there seem to be a problem with Nissan paint in general on GTR's?

This one was had the orange peel problem and I'm sure I've read other threads saying that white GTR's can somethimes have mismatched colour issues?

Love the final photos too, really show your results to best effect... :thumb:


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## VZSS250 (Jan 8, 2008)

Phil1984 said:


> All i would like to say to the others who were questioning Paul's detail regarding his approach and means of correction to the orange peel is that he obviously knows what hes talking about in his previous posts and by the owner kindly joining this site to show his appreciation and comments to Paul has made everyone else back down as it shows Paul was telling the truth from the Start....Anyway who would want to put their job on the line by lying and posting on a forum? The whole point of this forum with all the Detailers on here is to post pictures of their work to try gain more business, not throw it away!
> 
> Sorry for my rant but Paul seriously does deserve respect.....! Its ok questioning but sometimes people take it too far....


Nobody is really backing off, its just that at times we just have to agree to disagree.

Paul's work is outstanding, but what we have here is a clash between different schools of thought. While one group thinks orange peel removal should be reserved for show cars and garage queens, the other thinks that any level of correction is acceptable provided the owner of the vehicle has consented.

Owner consent is a funny thing, because a car rarely stays in the same hands for more then a few years, and rarely is a subsequent owner informed of the level of correction undertaken.

While one may buy and own a Nissan GTR in the sense that they have control over its tangible parts, the historical significance of a vehicle like this belongs to all enthousiasts. IMO an owner of such a vehicle must be conscious of the fact that they may only temporarily own something of such significance, and hence buyers are not so much owners as they are custodians. For this reason, their consent has ramifications that stretch beyond the confines of their own garage walls.


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## MoggyTech (Feb 28, 2009)

Truly stunning work, and extremely brave as well. Must have nerves of steel. :doublesho


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## Big Bru (Apr 27, 2008)

Wow that is one awesome detail! 

Absolutely stunning results & I love the photography!


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## R32rob (Feb 26, 2008)

I nearly fell off my chair when I saw the resultd photos! 

Thats an immense detail and your hard work really shows in the finished product!

What method did you use to get the exhausts looking like that?! I've seen less reflective mirrors!


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