# Garage damaged my alloys - got them to pay up



## VW Golf-Fan

Had my two front tyres changed this morning & despite them being immaculate and damage/kerb free, they came back scratched to bits.

I went straight back to the manager to complain (I had taken photos of my alloys before I left in in their care like I always do when the car goes for services etc.) so that is my comeback.

He admitted it straight away and has offered to get them refurbed and will be picking up the tab. He is going to phone me on Monday and arrange a time to get the two alloys refurbed.

At least they admitted liability so that makes things a bit easier but still peed off about them being damaged in the first place. :-/


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## S63

Who's repairing them? My bet would be a Smart repair.


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## 182_Blue

Don't let them smart repair them, full refurb only for me, this is why I only let my wheel refurbisher do my tyres for me, if he damages them he fixes them.


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## Naddy37

Incompetent muppets. Let's hope you get it sorted properly.

Just out of interest. How miles had the fronts done before needing replacing?


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## davidcraggs

Had something similar last April - my usual tyre place had closed down so had to find somewhere else to swap my winter tyres back to summers. I always clean the wheels beforehand but it was raining and couldn't see the condition of the wheels until I'd washed them back at home to remove the lubricant or whatever is normally smeared over the wheels following tyre fitting. To my dismay 3 out of the 4 were gouged similar to the photograph in this thread. The garage didn't hesitate to accept responsibility although it turns out they were just smart repaired - didn't remove the tyres from the wheels and not a good job tbh. Within a month of two you could see the gouges and there is bubbling etc - ok they were starting to show signs of corrosion in places beforehand but had no gouges etc so I just put it down to experience (as the car in question isn't my pride and joy) and am prepared to pay a bit more for my tyre swapping these days. Had it happened to one of my other cars though I'd have been far from satisfied.


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## Rayaan

I feel for you!

Seriously, wouldn't a person rather take the time to remove tyres and fit them carefully than rushing and costing themselves more money and time in the not too distant future? Bunch of idiots.


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## Kerr

Not good. 

Never heard of Rovelo tyres before. 

Got a feeling the guy will try to do it on the cheap as he will be well out of pocket. Refurbishing two wheels will be double the price of two of the tyres. 

Hopefully he does it right.


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## J4KE45

Had this myself, although I didn't take photos beforehand, and it was only till a couple of days later after a clean I seen the damage! Was gutted, went back but they denied all knowledge and wouldn't pay up. Learnt the hard way, now I ALWAYS take pictures and tell the shop I KNOW they're immaculate and want them back that way!


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## Sutty 90

Try and get them to pay for your choice of refurbisher. That way you know it won't end up in the hands of the cheapest smart repairer around.

Sutty.


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## Kriminal

Good for you mate, for making a stand. :thumb:

I had this once before when I had my other TT - they popped the centre caps out by shoving the wheel on that machine....and not gently! Lacquer came off around the cap area. I didn't notice until I had driven off and parked up - went straight back, moaned to the manager, and got both wheels refurbed.

I now use a mobile tyre fitter, who'll come out and repair/replace any tyres/wheels I want without causing a single mark. He's into keeping cars immaculate to, so understands my obsession.


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## Clancy

Unlucky but at least they are paying up 

This is the problem when they pay people sod all and expect them to work at a million miles an hour all the time. Tyre places wouldn't be in this position so much if they gave a ****. Doesn't help that managers will often give out small bonuses to the guy who fits the most in a day, gives them the incentive to rush 

But I suppose their turnover is so big through customer volume they don't really care that so many get damaged 

That's why I never go to them, I drive over 2 hours to my mates garage to make sure it's done properly by someone that cares about what there doing

Because there is no excuse for damaging them, it's rally not hard, it's just rushing with the machine and throwing the alloy around too much in the process


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## VW Golf-Fan

S63 said:


> Who's repairing them? My bet would be a Smart repair.


I've no idea yet who will e repairing them. All he said was that he knew a place locally that do a fantastic job of rufurbishing alloys, so he will ask them for a quote.

I will not accept him wanting to do a smart repair on them, I want the job done properly so will insist that it is done at a place of my choice.



Shaun said:


> Don't let them smart repair them, full refurb only for me, this is why I only let my wheel refurbisher do my tyres for me, if he damages them he fixes them.


I fully agree. I will insist that they are fully refurbished at a place of my choice and who I am happy with.
Just out of interest, what exactly is a smart repair? Is it a 'quick fix' type repair?



neilos said:


> Incompetent muppets. Let's hope you get it sorted properly.
> Just out of interest. How miles had the fronts done before needing replacing?


Thanks.

The fronts had done roughly 24,750 miles (from brand new) and were on 3mm. I decided to change them at 3mm as that's roughly what I generally replace the tyres at.



Rayaan said:


> I feel for you!
> Seriously, wouldn't a person rather take the time to remove tyres and fit them carefully than rushing and costing themselves more money and time in the not too distant future? Bunch of idiots.


Exactly, they would rather do a slap-dash quickie job than do a proper job where they are taking their time.

Can't trust anyone anymore.



Kerr said:


> Not good.
> Never heard of Rovelo tyres before.
> Got a feeling the guy will try to do it on the cheap as he will be well out of pocket. Refurbishing two wheels will be double the price of two of the tyres.
> Hopefully he does it right.


Neither have I heard of Rovelo tyres. I just got the budget tyres put on. So as they say you get what you pay for.

I aint giving him the chance to do it on the cheap. At the end of the day my two absolute perfect condition alloys have come back damaged & that should be put right by the garage doing the right thing and repairing them which they are.



J4KE45 said:


> Had this myself, although I didn't take photos beforehand, and it was only till a couple of days later after a clean I seen the damage! Was gutted, went back but they denied all knowledge and wouldn't pay up. Learnt the hard way, now I ALWAYS take pictures and tell the shop I KNOW they're immaculate and want them back that way!


Hard lines fella.

Well I had cleaned my alloys prior to going to the garage so that I could inspect them for damage once I had got to the garage and it would be easier to tell a damage free clean wheel than a dirty one.

You are always better checking your alloys for damage before you even leave the premises, then that way the garage can't necessarilly deny it whereas they could if you go back a few days later as in your case.



Sutty 90 said:


> Try and get them to pay for your choice of refurbisher. That way you know it won't end up in the hands of the cheapest smart repairer around.


Good advice there mate, will do just that.



Kriminal said:


> Good for you mate, for making a stand. :thumb:
> I had this once before when I had my other TT - they popped the centre caps out by shoving the wheel on that machine....and not gently! Lacquer came off around the cap area. I didn't notice until I had driven off and parked up - went straight back, moaned to the manager, and got both wheels refurbed.
> I now use a mobile tyre fitter, who'll come out and repair/replace any tyres/wheels I want without causing a single mark. He's into keeping cars immaculate to, so understands my obsession.


Thanks mate. 
I shall consider a mobile fitter in the future as this has actually put me off going to garages if they are this careless and shoddy.
That's good that your mobile guy understands your concern and takes care, not many like thatout there!


Clancy said:


> Unlucky but at least they are paying up
> This is the problem when they pay people sod all and expect them to work at a million miles an hour all the time. Tyre places wouldn't be in this position so much if they gave a ****. Doesn't help that managers will often give out small bonuses to the guy who fits the most in a day, gives them the incentive to rush
> But I suppose their turnover is so big through customer volume they don't really care that so many get damaged
> That's why I never go to them, I drive over 2 hours to my mates garage to make sure it's done properly by someone that cares about what there doing
> Because there is no excuse for damaging them, it's rally not hard, it's just rushing with the machine and throwing the alloy around too much in the process


Well said there.

Careless doesn't even cover it here when it comes to this lot, it's as you say all about time to them and they don't give a toss if they damage peoples property in the process.

The positioning of the marks is like they have deliverately been scraped by them - makes me mad so it does.


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## xoxclairexox

I bet I can guess who did it.. Lol


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR

I had 2 front tyres changed on my DB9 and service left the car with big chunks missing around the wheel bolts where the torque wrench must have been yanked off the locking wheel nut because it was being applied too tight. It was the sales staff I had dealt with when buying the car who rang me and told me so I explained they'd better sort it out while I had their loan DB9 and I'd pick my car up with 2 refurbished front wheels. This was annoying as the wheels were refurbished when I got the car but hey.

Picked it up and they had listened and refurbished them properly but the finish is shocking and there's big runs in the paint! They also scratched the passenger window while adjusting it and they didn't stamp the service book either! All this from an AM main dealer  The sales side have been great but the service is shocking! I feel for you VWGF, you be as careful as you can be for 2 and a half years and nearly 25k miles with your car and the factory finish on your alloys for some chump to damage them doing a relatively simple job. The mind boggles!


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## VW Golf-Fan

xoxclairexox said:


> I bet I can guess who did it.. Lol


Who do you think it could be?


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## VW Golf-Fan

CoOkIeMoNsTeR said:


> I feel for you VWGF, you be as careful as you can be for 2 and a half years and nearly 25k miles with your car and the factory finish on your alloys for some chump to damage them doing a relatively simple job. The mind boggles!


Thanks mate. 

Yes I am really annoyed for all of the reasons you state. Even before I dropped the car off I was wary about them possibly coming back damaged (I trust no garage - who does?!)

That is why I took photos of the alloys before I left in in their care just in case they did come back damaged which ultimately they did. 

The camera never lies (unless it's Photoshop :lol: ) so they really didn't have a leg to stand on.

I have never once kerbed any of my alloys in the time I've had my car and to see it in that state is sickening.

That is shocking service from Aston Martin too mate, no excuses there they should know better being a luxury car brand.


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## xoxclairexox

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Who do you think it could be?


Kwick Fit by any chance? I took my car to get 4 new tyres on and they put them on wrong way round (rotation) plonkers.. Last time I went there


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## VW Golf-Fan

xoxclairexox said:


> Kwick Fit by any chance? I took my car to get 4 new tyres on and they put them on wrong way round (rotation) plonkers.. Last time I went there


Nope, it was National.

What idiots they sound to be - the most simple of tasks they seem incompetent of doing!


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## S63

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Nope, it was National.
> 
> What idiots they sound to be - the most simple of tasks they seem incompetent of doing!


National aren't much better than Kwik Fit in my experience, don't you have any indies in your area?


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## VW Golf-Fan

S63 said:


> National aren't much better than Kwik Fit in my experience, don't you have any indies in your area?


There are plenty of independent garages yes but to be honest I always had this assumption that indies were of the more shoddy work side.

Sorry to anyone that is an independent garage, just my own opinion. But seriously, after this incident I may well consider using an non well known company.


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## S63

VW Golf-Fan said:


> There are plenty of independent garages yes but to be honest I always had this assumption that indies were of the more shoddy work side.


You must be one of the few members on here that think this way.

For an independent garage, tyre shop, dealership to survive and prosper amongst the "big boys" they have to offer and supply a service above and beyond their competitors, many are family run and a reliance on word of mouth and recommendation is paramount. How many times do we read on here when a global dealership is getting criticised that many have found an indie to look after their needs.


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## nick_mcuk

I only ever use independent garages. There is a very good reason main dealers are referred to as main stealers!!!


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## ChrisST

It's swings and roundabouts to be honest! I had the front Bridgestones replaced on my MINI last November and had them done at Williams MINI Bolton. Not a single mark on both wheels and to top it all they were the cheapest I could get anywhere. :thumb:


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## VW Golf-Fan

ChrisST said:


> It's swings and roundabouts to be honest! I had the front Bridgestones replaced on my MINI last November and had them done at Williams MINI Bolton. Not a single mark on both wheels and to top it all they were the cheapest I could get anywhere. :thumb:


I often find that dealerships are more expensive in general & especially for tyres, so that's why I never use them for tyres.

That's good that Mini took care of your car when it was getting new tyres, not very often I hear of a trouble free experience at a dealership!


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## S63

I did actually use Kwik Fit the last time I needed tyres for my old Mondeo but it was only to buy the tyres as they were prepared to undercut the opposition, I then had them fitted at the dealership I work at by a trusted tech....best of both worlds.


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## JJ0063

I'd be more concerned that you've put some of the worst, Chinese ****e tyres on your car!

I know you get what you pay for.. Not much in this case!


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## VW Golf-Fan

JJ0063 said:


> I'd be more concerned that you've put some of the worst, Chinese ****e tyres on your car!
> 
> I know you get what you pay for.. Not much in this case!


:lol:

Well I asked for one of their budget tyres. Never heard of the make of tyre they have put on though but if you are saying they are crap then I'll take your word for it!


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## andy665

Puzzled as to why anyone would put an unknown tyre on their car, especially after intimating that you changes tyres at 3mm for safety


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## VW Golf-Fan

andy665 said:


> Puzzled as to why anyone would put an unknown tyre on their car, especially after intimating that you changes tyres at 3mm for safety


On their website I selected a budget tyre. It didn't specify which make of tyre they would use, but did claim that for a budget tyre it was of decent quality and offered good grip in most weather conditions etc.

Not my fault they use tyres you don't approve of.


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## JJ0063

I remember when I asked for a budget tyre for a Vectra I had that I needed to MOT cheaply. Was supplied with a 'LingLong'!!


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## VW Golf-Fan

JJ0063 said:


> I remember when I asked for a budget tyre for a Vectra I had that I needed to MOT cheaply. Was supplied with a 'LingLong'!!


WTF?! :lol:


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## Richors

I am lucky - Son works at Audi so he does mine but to be fair, they all make sure they do not mark the wheels at his place - way too much hassle for the techs if anyone complains.........and most of them are into cars etc themselves - sometimes dealers can be a good option...........


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## Naddy37

S63 said:


> You must be one of the few members on here that think this way.
> 
> For an independent garage, tyre shop, dealership to survive and prosper amongst the "big boys" they have to offer and supply a service above and beyond their competitors, many are family run and a reliance on word of mouth and recommendation is paramount. How many times do we read on here when a global dealership is getting criticised that many have found an indie to look after their needs.


Exactly. One of my mates runs his own Indie garage. Even the Main Dealerships go to him to sort problems out as they haven't got a clue!!.


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## S63

VW Golf-Fan said:


> On their website I selected a budget tyre. It didn't specify which make of tyre they would use, but did claim that for a budget tyre it was of decent quality and offered good grip in most weather conditions etc.


I recollect you describing just recently how you had to "slam" on your brakes when someone pulled out in front of you some 400m away. As long as you have total confidence in this brand should a similar event happen on a wet and icy road, then you have made a good choice.


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## andy665

VW Golf-Fan said:


> On their website I selected a budget tyre. It didn't specify which make of tyre they would use, but did claim that for a budget tyre it was of decent quality and offered good grip in most weather conditions etc.
> 
> Not my fault they use tyres you don't approve of.


They are hardly going to say they were crap are they?

You come across as anal (in a good way) about your car and then put potential ditchfinders on - my OH, when we were separated bought a car with cheap Chinese tyres on it - I would not let her drive it with my son inside until I'd put decent (at least mid-range) tyres on it - I'd never put budget tyres on a car - each to their own


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## VW Golf-Fan

andy665 said:


> They are hardly going to say they were crap are they?
> 
> You come across as anal (in a good way) about your car and then put potential ditchfinders on - my OH, when we were separated bought a car with cheap Chinese tyres on it - I would not let her drive it with my son inside until I'd put decent (at least mid-range) tyres on it - I'd never put budget tyres on a car - each to their own


Fair enough chap. :thumb:

Can you just clarify exactly what you meant about me being 'anal' about my car? I'm not offended, just curious!


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## VW Golf-Fan

Update:

The manager who said he would phone me back today, hadn't done so. So I gave it until mid-afternoon and decided to pop into the branch as I felt I would get somewhere by doing it face to face.

I walked into the garage & he wasn't in......only the general manager was so I explained to him what happened. The guy who was in charge on Saturday hadn't even left a note or anything to inform his manager that he had received a complaint.

Anyway, the guy who was in today then said is it your wife's car?  I told him it wasn't and that it is my own car (god knows where he got that from?)

So he says that the guy who said I would get my wheels refurbished would be spoken to & that he needed to phone him first to find out the full story.

The general manager has promised to phone me back once he has spoken to the other manager.

I get the feeling I aint going to hear from them, but I'm not letting them get away with this.

Am I right for pursuing this actively?


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## S63

and you're still confident about them recommending you a brand of tyre?


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## VW Golf-Fan

S63 said:


> and you're still confident about them recommending you a brand of tyre?


It wasn't a 'recommendation', just one of their cheapo budget tyres.

I will keep badgering them until I get an outcome I am happy with.


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## JJ0063

Try and get them to give you a decent brand tyre as compo!!


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## Clancy

Yeah still pursue it mate, they will just try and fob you off

Go in as much as you can and just be awkward for them so they sort it. Best bet is always be firm and polite, as the tend to be less defensive then 

Try going in when it's really busy and talking loudly at the service desk, they'll love it


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## camerashy

You have done nothing wrong, they are totally at fault so it needs to be taken further to an outcome which you are happy with.


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## Andyg_TSi

andy665 said:


> They are hardly going to say they were crap are they?
> 
> You come across as anal (in a good way) about your car and then put potential ditchfinders on - my OH, when we were separated bought a car with cheap Chinese tyres on it - I would not let her drive it with my son inside until I'd put decent (at least mid-range) tyres on it - I'd never put budget tyres on a car - each to their own


Exactly. At the end of the day, despite all the safety devices fitted to modern cars, the only contact with the road is the width of the tyre. Dependent on tyre size that can be the same size as your hand.

Fit the best tyres you can, when a decent mid range tyre is 10 - 20 a corner more, why risk it......

Golf fan, keep pursuing it mate. You have to be very firm, but fair.

If you can look up their terms & conditions on their website......see what they say about customer service and then use that info against the manager in any discussions..

EG if they have blurb along the lines of 'customer satisfaction is our priority' then you, the customer is not satisfied.

Quote the consumer protection act at them or relevant bits and they know their dealing with someone very savvy and won't try and fob you off.

From the latest update you've posted it appears that the new manager is fobbing you off and using delaying tactics.

Sounds like the 1st manger just said he'd get them refurbed to placate you, but has not give 2 hoots. If he did, then a proper note made at the time would've been made to follow through with his promise.

Just keep going at it and don't let it drop


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## VW Golf-Fan

Brilliant advice here so far guys. You lot are encouraging me even more to push and push until I get the outcome I am looking for.

I will keep this thread updated as and when progress happens.

:thumb:


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## Andyg_TSi

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Brilliant advice here so far guys. You lot are encouraging me even more to push and push until I get the outcome I am looking for.
> 
> I will keep this thread updated as and when progress happens.
> 
> :thumb:


Here's what you could do as well for more ammo.

Look up a local wheel refurb place, take the car & get a written quote off them for the repair.

Take that quote back to them and say they can either pay you the value of the quote & you'll get it done or they can get it done.


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## Rundie

Any hassle then get them re-furbed properly and then go through the small claims court if they refuse to pay, sounds like they'll try and give you the runaround.


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## Juke_Fan

Start recording dates, times and conversations so you have a record in case they play silly-Bu***rs. Get a quote as mentioned above and send it to them with a covering letter recorded delivery.


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## Andyg_TSi

http://www.national.co.uk/localaccounts-terms-and-conditions.aspx


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## bidderman1969

if no joy in local branch, tell them you'll be going higher


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## S63

Out of curiosity what brand of tyres are on your rears?


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## VW Golf-Fan

S63 said:


> Out of curiosity what brand of tyres are on your rears?


They are on Hankooks (still the original tyres that came on the car.)


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## bidderman1969

i was recommended Neuton tyres a few years back, havent looked back tbh, when i've had to get tyres there and then i've gone Kumho


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## andy665

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Can you just clarify exactly what you meant about me being 'anal' about my car? I'm not offended, just curious!


Certainly not meant as a criticism - anal as in very particular about things


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## Chrisr1806

Tyres not matching would annoy me. Why didn't you go for Hancook again?

Hope you get the damage sorted.


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## VW Golf-Fan

Update:

The general manager phoned me this morning along with the manager (separate calls) who dealt with my initial complaint of Saturday and the general manager told me that the guy who was in charge on Saturday has now been moved to another branch (not sure if this is as a result of my complaint?)

He said could I contact him at his new branch and he would sort out something in terms of the repair. Before I could phone him, he called me and explained that he could pick my car up for me (no chance am I letting him drive my car) and take it to this place he knew of that did a decent repair.

It transpires that this place he is talking about is his fathers place (combined with a valeting side to the business) so I took a run down this morning to see if it looked decent but it looks like a back street garage and doesn't even have a sign whatsoever above the premises and looks like it's run out of a single garage. :doublesho 

I saw one guy pottering about doing nothing and my first impressions were that I would not be happy with my car being left there. He even said that if I dropped it tomorrow then it could be done in half a day the refurbishment? Does that sound right?

*What I want to know is, am I within my rights to select a few places I feel would be suitable to do the work and present him (garage guy) with the quotes/bill or am I 'obliged' to have it done where he suggests?*


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## Andyg_TSi

Your not obliged to do anything mate. 
You could walk away and forget it and put it down to experience or you peruse it.

Sound to me like the original guy offered to repair it on the basis that his dad would do it free of charge.
NO WAY would I let him do that. 

You want a full repair at a REPUTABLE repairer.

If they are prepared to take your money for goods/services, then they need to take responsibility when something goes awry.

Go get quotes off reputable places & get them to compensate you for the amounts so you can take it yourself to be done properly.

Those pair of shysters are mugging you off mate


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## Andyg_TSi

More to the point is there any warning on the premises or terms & conditions that says something along the lines of:

You use our tyre serviced at your own risk, we are not responsible for any damage to your vehicle....

I bet there isn't. They are responsible they have to pay. Period.


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## S63

As Andy said in his opening statement........walk away, swallow the cost and get a repair done under your own control, the cost of this will make you think twice in future as to where you buy your tyres.

Or........persue it with aggro, grief and hassle and at the end of it come away with a crap repair.


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## bidderman1969

I say take it to regional office then head office saying you want a proper job not a crap one


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## Juke_Fan

I agree - time for a formal complaint in writing to head office includung the cost of a proper repair.


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## VW Golf-Fan

Cheers Andy, some very good advice there. :thumb:

I had a further call from the manager that was moved to the other branch saying that the place he recommended had their roof blown off earlier.  :lol:

Strange as we had snow last night & zero wind. I stopped by this place after he phoned me saying it's roof was damaged & surprise surprise, it was all intact and looked to be operating as normal the company.

I did however, obtain a few written quotes from a few Alloy Refurbishment places and will present these to him personally this week.

I aint using his back street suggestion, it's getting done properly regardless of the price (which I am not paying for.)


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## Kerr

Quite clearly you are in for a fight to get anything out of these guys. 

How did you pay for the tyres? If you paid by card, have you asked your bank/credit card company for some help? 

I think you might struggle with the credit card route if the goods were under £100.


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## VW Golf-Fan

Kerr said:


> Quite clearly you are in for a fight to get anything out of these guys.
> 
> How did you pay for the tyres? If you paid by card, have you asked your bank/credit card company for some help?
> 
> I think you might struggle with the credit card route if the goods were under £100.


I paid for the tyres by Credit Card. I've not asked my bank for help because I fail to see what this has to do with getting my alloys repaired?

As it stands, I paid for tyres to be fitted which was done. The tyres do their job and I've not had any trouble with them.

The issue is to do with them paying up for the cost of repairing the wheels which it seems they are trying to do as cheaply as possible.


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## Andyg_TSi

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I paid for the tyres by Credit Card. I've not asked my bank for help because I fail to see what this has to do with getting my alloys repaired?
> 
> As it stands, I paid for tyres to be fitted which was done. The tyres do their job and I've not had any trouble with them.
> 
> The issue is to do with them paying up for the cost of repairing the wheels which it seems they are trying to do as cheaply as possible.


You have some added buyer protection if you've paid via credit/debit card as opposed to cash......im uncertain as to the exact inns & outs of that protection, but you are definitely in a better position if you have to claim for your losses.

See here:

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act

At the end of the day, your claim is against National Tyres, the company rather than the individual employee/manager who has dealt with you.

Yes, as representatives of the company/employee's they could have handled this a lot better. But if you get no joy, i'd suggest a phone call to their head office.

I don't know what the set up is with national, whether it's a franchise network, where each branch is its own business, in effect, or all are employees of the company.

It's worth checking that too.


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## rf860

VWGF - have you written an email to National to explain your situation?

Usually that get things moving. Make sure it reads well and i'm sure it'll be resolved.


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## bidderman1969

Let the credit card company know ASAP, regardless

They do have a lot of clout, they should also help you out, alloys where damaged while they were fitting tyres, end of


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## VW Golf-Fan

rf860 said:


> VWGF - have you written an email to National to explain your situation?
> 
> Usually that get things moving. Make sure it reads well and i'm sure it'll be resolved.


I have written an email to them which I haven't yet sent (that will be done tomorrow.)

I personally am done with dealing with the guy who initially dealt with my complaint and just feel it is time to get firmer and take it to head office rather than o round in circles with him wanting to do it on the cheap at some scabby back street non-reputable place.



bidderman1969 said:


> Let the credit card company know ASAP, regardless
> 
> They do have a lot of clout, they should also help you out, alloys where damaged while they were fitting tyres, end of


Can I just ask, and it may seem a dumb question but what has this got to do with the credit card company? 

As far as I'm concerned I've had the tyres fitted which aren't the issue here but the damage they have caused is.

I fail to see what this has to do with them as I'm not trying to claim back the full cost of the tyres, in fact I'm not trying to claim back anything.


----------



## rf860

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I have written an email to them which I haven't yet sent (that will be done tomorrow.)
> 
> I personally am done with dealing with the guy who initially dealt with my complaint and just feel it is time to get firmer and take it to head office rather than o round in circles with him wanting to do it on the cheap at some scabby back street non-reputable place.
> 
> Can I just ask, and it may seem a dumb question but what has this got to do with the credit card company?
> 
> As far as I'm concerned I've had the tyres fitted which aren't the issue here but the damage they have caused is.
> 
> I fail to see what this has to do with them as I'm not trying to claim back the full cost of the tyres, in fact I'm not trying to claim back anything.


Credit card companies offer legal protection on purchases over £100. It's just part of the deal when you take a credit card.

That's why most folk pay their holidays on credit card, because they have much greater protection should it go **** up.


----------



## bidderman1969

Just like rf860 says, you get extra protection, speak to them and find out, even if they can't help, they'll tell you at least what you are covered for


----------



## HarryHedgehog

If you used a credit card, you have effectively bought the tyres/service on credit. The credit card company are as liable for the goods/services as the company. If you get no joy, you can go to your credit card company and ask for a chargeback.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/visa-mastercard-chargeback#section75

Quote:"
What chargeback can be used for?

Importantly, as it's asking for money back from the supplier's bank, not the supplier itself, the money should come back even if the retailer has gone bust - though this isn't guaranteed. If a transaction hasn't been completed properly, the onus is on your bank to get the money back and you should get a refund.

Some possible reasons for claiming a chargeback are:

Company goes into administration - the company you purchased from has gone bust.
Quality of item - the goods were not as described or were defective.
Non-delivery - the goods were not received as promised.
Technical issue - expired authorisation or a processing error by the bank.
Clerical error - being charged multiple times or being billed for the incorrect amount.
Fraud - you have been the victim of fraud and did not authorise the purchase. "


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Starting to see red now with this whole company as a whole.

I got an email response from the Headquarters of National saying basically that they are sorry to hear of my experience at the garage & that the manager of that branch would be in contact with me.  :wall:

So I emailed them back saying that the manager had indeed phoned me back and has basically 'shifted' the problem onto the guy who initially deal with my complaint because he is nearer to where I am. That means squat all, he as general manager should not be passing the buck and should be putting his foot down so to speak.

Anyway, I have grown tired of dealing with these Muppets now & feel I am getting nowhere with them so what I intend to do is:

1. Take my damaged alloys to a place of my choice to get them refurbished
2. Explain to the repairer that National will and have agreed to pick up the bill for the repairs so just to bill them
3. I am going to send a recorded letter of complaint to the Head Office today telling them how unhappy I am at the whole thing since I have basically been palmed off by them (HQ) and the brand manager.

I have three written quotes from local alloy repairers/refurbishers and they all seem reasonable enough so I have selected one that is more reputable and will book my car in with them today.


----------



## johanr77

VW Golf-Fan said:


> 1. Take my damaged alloys to a place of my choice to get them refurbished
> 2. Explain to the repairer that National will and have agreed to pick up the bill for the repairs so just to bill them


I will be stunned if any firm is going to do work for you and send it to another person without a letter or phone call from them saying they are happy to pay for it.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

johanr77 said:


> I will be stunned if any firm is going to do work for you and send it to another person without a letter or phone call from them saying they are happy to pay for it.


So what do you suggest?

Don't forget that meanwhile my alloys are becoming exposed to the cold weather and could potentially rust the longer they are left untreated.


----------



## johanr77

Well to prevent any rust paint over the scratches with a silver touch up pen. It's a temporary fix and if the wheel is getting refurbed anyway then any poor finish will get sorted. 

Secondly if you're not willing to let your pal at National Tyres dad fix the wheels then you're going to have to get them fixed. You can try and get your refurber to send the bill to National but I can't see why they would, they've done the work for you on your instruction, if they send the bill to National and don't get paid all you've done is transfer your problem to a third party.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

johanr77 said:


> Well to prevent any rust paint over the scratches with a silver touch up pen. It's a temporary fix and if the wheel is getting refurbed anyway then any poor finish will get sorted.
> 
> Secondly if you're not willing to let your pal at National Tyres dad fix the wheels then you're going to have to get them fixed. You can try and get your refurber to send the bill to National but I can't see why they would, they've done the work for you on your instruction, if they send the bill to National and don't get paid all you've done is transfer your problem to a third party.


I see what you mean. But at the end of the day, I don't necessarily have to take my car to a cheapo place that I'm not entirely happy with just because he has recommended it only because he's getting it done on the cheap.

Would you really be happy leaving your car at a place like this that doesn't even have a website or sign above the premises and is operated out of a single garage?

And besides, many guys on here have said to take it to a place I am happy with and that would do a decent job first time.


----------



## johanr77

Not saying take it there if you don't want to but I would ask around and see if anyone locally has used them. Just because the unit looks like a bit of a dive doesn't mean the guys inside aren't good at what they do. 

Just saying you're going to have to pay for the refurb and claim it back from National, I can't see any firm being happy chasing National for payment while you drive off with freshly fixed wheels.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

johanr77 said:


> Not saying take it there if you don't want to but I would ask around and see if anyone locally has used them. Just because the unit looks like a bit of a dive doesn't mean the guys inside aren't good at what they do.
> 
> Just saying you're going to have to pay for the refurb and claim it back from National, I can't see any firm being happy chasing National for payment while you drive off with freshly fixed wheels.


I have looked online to see if anyone locally has used them but alas because they don't even have a company name as such, this makes it even harder to establish.

I am trusting my instincts here & as snobbish as it may sound, I just don't get good vibes about this place and would rather take it somewhere that is an established firm.

But you are right though, just because the place looks like a *hit hole doesn't always mean that the guys aren't good at what they do.

I'll do whatever I can to get my wheels done at a place of my choice and then claim it back from National.


----------



## Naddy37

Agree with what has been said.

Get them done at a place of your choice, get a receipt.

Give National a chance to reply to your email.

If the response isn't satisfactory, go above their heads and contact Trading Standards.

I'm sure your local radio station has a segment on one of their shows about dodgy service from local companies.........

Your alloys aren't going to rust over night and fall apart, so don't panic.


----------



## rf860

You cannot just tell the refurbisher to send the bill to National LOL.

That's no different to you getting a slap up meal and telling the restaurant to send the bill to Joe Bloggs.

Also, I'm pretty sure that would be against some sort of law, so you might find yourself in hot water for doing that.

If I were you, I'd phone National and ask to speak to somebody personally. Tell them what you want done to resolve the situation and if they agree follow up with an email confirming your telephone conversation - get them to confirm the contents of your email by return.

If they don't agree on the phone, threaten that you will be speaking to citizens advice/trading standards about getting them to pay for the damage. DO NOT jump in with this right away as this will only get their hackles up and not be very helpful.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Pinky

If you are on talking terms with national send them the quote from the wheel place you want to take the car to and ask them to send you a cheque , at the end of the day they damaged your wheels and if they pay you its up to you if you get them sorted or just run about with the wheels as they are . 
Good luck .


----------



## bidderman1969

Have you spoken to the credit card company yet?


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

bidderman1969 said:


> Have you spoken to the credit card company yet?


Not yet as I still fail to see what it has to do with them.

As far as I'm concerned it is between National & myself.


----------



## Kerr

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Not yet as I still fail to see what it has to do with them.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned it is between National & myself.


The whole reason for having a credit card if for the protection it gives you. That's the benefit of them and they charge fees to cover issues.


----------



## bidderman1969

Fine, just trying to help


----------



## Andyg_TSi

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Not yet as I still fail to see what it has to do with them.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned it is between National & myself.


As I and others on the thread have said, paying on a Credit Card gives you extra protection.

While the goods (tyres) are not at fault, you have not had satisfactory service and have suffered losses which would not have happened if the tyres had been replaced properly.

A phone call to the CC company to explain the issue will take you 10 minutes of your time & if you explain what has happened, they may advise you of your rights in regard to the situation & what can be claimed.

Let's just say for arguments sake, the tyres cost you £120 for the pair.
If the cost to repair your alloys was £120, then as you have paid by credit, you could get a full refund for the cost of the tyres to offset the cost of the wheel repair as compensation by way of charge back by the CC company to National.

Just ring the CC company. 10 minutes on the phone could save you a whole lot of further hassle, trying to deal with the 2 manager muppets!!!!!


----------



## m4rkymark

Section 75 of the credit act will cover you for the cost as others have said, just call them and they will deal with it.


----------



## Rundie

Stop messing, get them sorted and go down the small claims route to get costs back, as I said earlier, you've given them a chance and they are making a mug of you.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Thanks again everyone. 

I sent a recorded letter of complaint to the garages head office on Friday and I'm giving them until Wednesday this week to respond to me otherwise I will start a small claims order against them and if that fails to materialise then I will contact my Credit Card company to see if I am eligible to receive a 'rebate'.


----------



## andy665

If you visit gov.co.uk you can make a small claim online for £25. - really simple to do and fees are added to the claim

Be aware though that even wimning the case (if it goes to court) is no guarantee of getting your money, further action may be required - as its a business thats unlikely though

If you have not already done so take photos of the damaged areas and note down every conversation, who it was with, what was said and the time / date it took place - will massively strengthen your case


----------



## S63

andy665 said:


> If you visit gov.co.uk you can make a small claim online for £25. - really simple to do and fees are added to the claim
> 
> Be aware though that even wimning the case (if it goes to court) is no guarantee of getting your money, further action may be required - as its a business thats unlikely though
> 
> If you have not already done so take photos of the damaged areas and note down every conversation, who it was with, what was said and the time / date it took place - will massively strengthen your case


it would surprise me if a court of law took photos taken nine days after the event as admissible evidence.


----------



## Juke_Fan

Do they have a facebook presence? If so add a comment and pictures of your damaged tyres to that so others can see what they have done. Often helps to spur a company on if they are giving bad customer service. Either that or they will delete your comment and ban you -


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Juke_Fan said:


> Do they have a facebook presence? If so add a comment and pictures of your damaged tyres to that so others can see what they have done. Often helps to spur a company on if they are giving bad customer service. Either that or they will delete your comment and ban you -


I don't actually know if they have a FB page but that aint a bad idea naming and shaming them that way. Companies usually hate any negative comments damaging their reputation so I can't see them wanting it to make any further 'damage' to their name so if I do post something then hopefully that will prompt them to actually do something!


----------



## Andyg_TSi

Stop messing about & ring the Credit card company tonight to see where you stand.

At the very least they could advise you accordingly with where you stand and possible next steps.

Put it this way, if this was me, I wouldn't have let this linger on for as long as you have mate.

Ring em now it'll take all of 10-15 mins


----------



## Juke_Fan

Agree - if they cover damage caused then this will sort it in no time.

Also you could write a trust pilot review...

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.national.co.uk


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Thanks again guys. But before I call the CC company, is there a term that they use for instances where a purchase was not 100% approval.


----------



## Juke_Fan

Section 75 claim

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act


----------



## S63

You keep posing questions and as the clock ticks your case weakens, no mention yet as far as I have seen, do you know whether you are dealing with a franchise or not?


----------



## Andyg_TSi

Exactly S63 mate.

If this was me, i'd have rung the CC company within 24/48 hours if getting no joy off the managers playing ball to address the issue.

I'd be like a rabid dog with a bone lol........or get Bricktop out of snatch to pay em a visit.

Do you know what nemesis means......lol

The Definition of "Nemesis" - Snatch. (6/8) Movie CLIP (2000) HD:


----------



## rf860

Golf Fan - you are taking an age to sort this out!

Have you actually spoke to National HQ yet?? That is the first step before taking to small claims.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

rf860 said:


> Golf Fan - you are taking an age to sort this out!
> 
> Have you actually spoke to National HQ yet?? That is the first step before taking to small claims.


I have done all the chasing so far.

I have contacted the manager in charge on the morning of the tyre change, the manager above him and now Head Office.

The only 'success' I've had of late has been with the initial manager verbally telling me he will sort out a repair (at a shoddy old run down garage it transpires.)

Head Office have been bl**dy useless, I will be calling them tomorrow asking what the h*ll they are playing at and I know for a fact they received my complaint letter on Friday as I tracked it and know it was signed for.

If they don't respond (head office) or if they don't give me a good enough outcome that I'm looking for, do you think that's when I can get heavy with them and involve small claims?


----------



## bidderman1969

I give up


----------



## Andyg_TSi

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I have done all the chasing so far.
> 
> I have contacted the manager in charge on the morning of the tyre change, the manager above him and now Head Office.
> 
> The only 'success' I've had of late has been with the initial manager verbally telling me he will sort out a repair (at a shoddy old run down garage it transpires.)
> 
> Head Office have been bl**dy useless, I will be calling them tomorrow asking what the h*ll they are playing at and I know for a fact they received my complaint letter on Friday as I tracked it and know it was signed for.
> 
> If they don't respond (head office) or if they don't give me a good enough outcome that I'm looking for, do you think that's when I can get heavy with them and involve small claims?


FOR F%CK SAKE MATE.

in the time its taking you to post in this thread with questions you could have had a resolution to this problem by TALKING TO THE CREDIT CARD COMPANY IN RELATION TO A SECTION 75 CLAIM .

all this b0llocks about small claims courts is a waste of time and could take months

ring the card company & TAKE THEIR ADVICE.

as I said in a previous post, if the CC company agree & uphold your claim for compensation, you could end up with a full refund for the cost of the tyres, which you then use to cover the cost of getting the wheels refurbed yourself.

its that bl00dy simple. No hassle, no messing, no f% cking about

people have told you time and again and your still dragging your heels. You can have this all sorted in 20 minutes if you pick up the phone now :wall:


----------



## S63

VW Golf-Fan said:


> If they don't respond (head office) or if they don't give me a good enough outcome that I'm looking for, do you think that's when I can get heavy with them and involve small claims?


I don't think you have a cat in hells chance of even getting this into a small claims court as it stands at the moment, let alone winning a case.

The tyre company in good faith have offered to refurb the damage foc, you have taken a look at the setup and decided you don't like it, hardly a legal precedent.

You will need to supply evidence that the repairer recommended cannot do a repair to an acceptable standard (bare in mind you will be presenting your case to a bench that have zero knowledge of detailers standards only that of your average customer)

For all you know this back street one man band could be the best refurbisher in the business.


----------



## johanr77

Look chief this isn't the time for a chihuahua yelping away making no headway it's time for he Rottweiler clamping down on national tyres ball sack. You've had plenty of good advice, act on it or stop asking people for it.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

S63 and Johan, there's no need for your aggressive responses. I have headed everyone's advice & I am grateful for everyone responding and trying to help with their advice etc.

Just because I keep asking questions doesn't mean that I'm not listening.


----------



## S63

VW Golf-Fan said:


> S63 and Johan, there's no need for your aggressive responses. I have headed everyone's advice & I am grateful for everyone responding and trying to help with their advice etc.
> 
> Just because I keep asking questions doesn't mean that I'm not listening.


I haven't been aggressive in the slightest

For nearly four years I've worked in a group of dealerships and see at close hand how a few service managers operate. In this time there have been a small number of disgruntled customers with complaints about their repairs some justified some not, some threatened to take the dealership to court, the response is always the same.........bring it on, invariably it doesn't go that far with the customer backing down. You need to have a strong solid case with evidence and proof to hand and display a good level of competence and understanding of how the legal proceedings operate, til now VWGF you haven't given us any reason to think you can take on a multi national company that deals with these situations on an all too regular basis.

If you find that aggressive and not what you'd prefer to hear, you can always hit the ignore button.


----------



## johanr77

Believe me my man this isn't me being aggressive. I may be a tad exasperated but that's only because through your own hesitation and prevarication you've still not got your problem well down the road of being resolved.

The longer you leave it the less options you remain with for getting it sorted out. It won't get sorted out unless you *push *it on. National Tyres are quite happy for you to keep ambling along at the speed you're going.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

I personally don't believe that the longer I leave it to phone the Credit Card Company then the less chance I have of 'winning' a case. I understand what you are all saying about it being a non satisfactory quality of service that I received for the goods which has resulted in damage to my alloy wheels.

But before I explore that route (as a last resort) I am going to keep badgering the Tyre company until I get an outcome I am happy with. Why should I have to settle for some backstreet company that the initial manager suggested when they don't even as much as have a website, company name or a testimonial section? That just screams dodgy to me.

Update (for those who haven't lost the plot yet!):

The area manager phoned me this afternoon & asked why I didn't want my car taken to the place that was suggested by the branch manager. I told him that I just wasn't happy leaving my car in a place that didn't look too professional & that I had got three written quotes from several established companies.

So he said that was fine but that he 'needed to get to the bottom of the case' before we can proceed.........whatever that means?


----------



## Vossman

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I personally don't believe that the longer I leave it to phone the Credit Card Company then the less chance I have of 'winning' a case. I understand what you are all saying about it being a non satisfactory quality of service that I received for the goods which has resulted in damage to my alloy wheels.
> 
> But before I explore that route (as a last resort) I am going to keep badgering the Tyre company until I get an outcome I am happy with. Why should I have to settle for some backstreet company that the initial manager suggested when they don't even as much as have a website, company name or a testimonial section? That just screams dodgy to me.
> 
> Update (for those who haven't lost the plot yet!):
> 
> The area manager phoned me this afternoon & asked why I didn't want my car taken to the place that was suggested by the branch manager. I told him that I just wasn't happy leaving my car in a place that didn't look too professional & that I had got three written quotes from several established companies.
> 
> So he said that was fine but that he 'needed to get to the bottom of the case' before we can proceed.........whatever that means?


I think it means stall and stall again, just be polite and write to them giving them 14 days notice to sort out the problem that their company have caused, send it recorded delivery and send a copy to the CEO, include all details of your concerns regarding their chosen fix and include copies of the quotes you have received.
This way it puts a deadline on the case and forces them to start acting, as I said be polite but to the point, forget the phone now, everything must be in writing.
Good luck.


----------



## S63

What have you been quoted by the thee companies?


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Vossman said:


> I think it means stall and stall again, just be polite and write to them giving them 14 days notice to sort out the problem that their company have caused, send it recorded delivery and send a copy to the CEO, include all details of your concerns regarding their chosen fix and include copies of the quotes you have received.
> This way it puts a deadline on the case and forces them to start acting, as I said be polite but to the point, forget the phone now, everything must be in writing.
> Good luck.


What a superb piece of advice there, thanks a lot mate will do just that! :thumb:



S63 said:


> What have you been quoted by the thee companies?


Company 1. £75 per wheel (including VAT) - 2 day turnaround depending on workload

Company 2. £60 per wheel (not including VAT)

Company 3. £70 per wheel (not including VAT)


----------



## Andyg_TSi

Second piece of advice.

We've been telling you to call the CC company. There well maybe a time bar on a Section 75 claim and the longer you leave it the less chance you have.

Here is what I would do in your shoes.

1. Ring the CC company 
2. Explain what has happened in detail & that you are giving National a chance to put this right themselves & you've written to their head office etc.
3. Explain that you feel they are using delaying tactics.
4. Ask the CC company if in light of the above you have a claim under section 75.......at end of the day you went in for replacement tyres, and paid for them, you didn't expect to get the alloys damaged & you shouldn't be footing an extra bill of £60 per wheel for repairs when the tyres cost £xx per tyre.
5. Per point 4....say that if you do have a claim you would like it noting on their records in case you have to persue it in the event of National tyres not paying to repair your wheels.


You need to cover yourself from all angles mate. What harm is there in a 20 min chat with people who deal with this stuff everyday.

The longer you leave it your 'last resort' may not be there due to not registering your complaint with the CC company.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Fair enough Andy mate, I know you mean well and your advice is greatly appreciated.

:thumb:


----------



## rf860

If one of those repairers is The Wheel Specialist in EK, forget them. Done mine twice and weren't very good.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Got a call from the area manager of the tyre garage company to say that I have to go and get my alloys refurbished at a place of my choice and they will pay for it once I send the invoice to them.

:thumb:


----------



## Andyg_TSi

Good result!!

:thumb:


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Indeed Andy, I'm fairly chuffed myself.

It's funny how a firm letter sent to their head office by recorded delivery has finally got them to act & start talking.


----------



## andy665

Good result - I'm a firm believer in firm but polite rather than all guns blazing

Just to protect yourself I would have asked for an email confirmation of their offer, something verbal can be denied if they chose to mess you around


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

andy665 said:


> Good result - I'm a firm believer in firm but polite rather than all guns blazing
> 
> Just to protect yourself I would have asked for an email confirmation of their offer, something verbal can be denied if they chose to mess you around


I never thought of that pal. I suppose if anything does go pear shaped then I can always contact HQ again if he denies ever verbally saying to get the repair on them.

:thumb:


----------



## johanr77

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Got a call from the area manager of the tyre garage company to say that I have to go and get my alloys refurbished at a place of my choice and they will pay for it once I send the invoice to them.
> 
> :thumb:


If you've got his name write a letter to him confirming your conversation and that you would like him to send a letter in reponse confirming his commitment to pay for the repairs. I'd hate to see you get the wheels fixed then the guy gets amnesia when you send the bill in to get your money.

I'd also say like before I can't see the wheel refurber billing National for it unless you have something in writing so as it stands you'll have to pay until you get a letter or purchase order from National committing to pay for the repair and even then the refurber might not be keen to bill someone other than person collecting the wheels. Worth getting all that sorted out before you put the wheels in.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

johanr77 said:


> If you've got his name write a letter to him confirming your conversation and that you would like him to send a letter in reponse confirming his commitment to pay for the repairs. I'd hate to see you get the wheels fixed then the guy gets amnesia when you send the bill in to get your money.
> 
> I'd also say like before I can't see the wheel refurber billing National for it unless you have something in writing so as it stands you'll have to pay until you get a letter or purchase order from National committing to pay for the repair and even then the refurber might not be keen to bill someone other than person collecting the wheels. Worth getting all that sorted out before you put the wheels in.


I do have his name & he seemed reasonable enough on the phone but to 'cover my back' I think that is a good idea to write him a letter confirming our agreement in case he plays silly bugger.

The way he was talking on the phone was that he said I should get the wheels sorted then send them the invoice for the wheels (after I've paid initially) and they would send out a cheque. That doesn't sound too convincing but I will take your advice and get him to back up his word in writing should anything sour happen.

Cheers
:thumb:


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Well, I emailed National HQ this morning to find out where my cheque is after being verbally told by the area manager that I would be sent one soon.

Received a call from the area manager shortly after saying he's 'been on holiday' and that he hadn't forgotten about it but I would definitely have a cheque by the end of this week to cover the cost of the alloy refurb which I had to pay upfront as they wouldn't bill National directly.


----------



## S63

Via a Nigerian bank account?


----------



## nbray67

S63 said:


> Via a Nigerian bank account?


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Nanoman

Did you ever get anything in writing before paying for it yourself?


----------



## Starbuck88

I've just read through this whole thread.

Someone's been taken for a mug. No wonder they think they can get away with the things they do when people don't follow up on stuff.

I'd have been ringing them every day. As a company they have a duty of care, not that 1 person you originally dealt with.


----------



## S63

Did they pay up?


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

S63 said:


> Did they pay up?


They have apparently sent a cheque out to me on Friday so I should have it this week.

If I don't get it, then legal action will be taken.


----------



## Rundie

Bet it get's 'lost in the post'.


----------



## S63

VW Golf-Fan said:


> They have apparently sent a cheque out to me on Friday so I should have it this week.
> 
> If I don't get it, then legal action will be taken.


You're a far more trusting person than me, I'd have been in there picking up the cheque personally.


----------



## Starbuck88

S63 said:


> You're a far more trusting person than me, I'd have been in there picking up the cheque personally.


Plus 1 on this.

They're giving you the slip around, I'll be very surprised if a cheque turns up at all.


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## VW Golf-Fan

Update:

The area manager phoned me last week (Tuesday) only after me emailing HQ saying that he wasn't keeping in touch as he said he would, and he promised that I'd have my cheque by Thurs/Fri last week (which surprise surprise hasn't turned up as of today.) 

So this morning I emailed him (area manager) saying that I was giving National until this Wednesday to pay up otherwise a Small Claim would be taken out and that I had recorded all of our phone calls (to back me up.)

I got an email from him this morning which all it said was "Really Sir, and I've also recorded all of our telephone conversations too".

I know for a fact he is bull*hitting me but that email has really angered me today.

Do you think it was very nice or professional of him?

Cheers lads


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## S63

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Update:
> 
> The area manager phoned me last week (Tuesday) only after me emailing HQ saying that he wasn't keeping in touch as he said he would, and he promised that I'd have my cheque by Thurs/Fri last week (which surprise surprise hasn't turned up as of today.)
> 
> So this morning I emailed him (area manager) saying that I was giving National until this Wednesday to pay up otherwise a Small Claim would be taken out and that I had recorded all of our phone calls (to back me up.)
> 
> I got an email from him this morning which all it said was "Really Sir, and I've also recorded all of our telephone conversations too".
> 
> I know for a fact he is bull*hitting me but that email has really angered me today.
> 
> Do you think it was very nice or professional of him?
> 
> Cheers lads


not nice at all, but someone who maybe seen as naïve will often get treated this way by such outfits.


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## VW Golf-Fan

S63 said:


> not nice at all, but someone who maybe seen as naïve will often get treated this way by such outfits.


Why would I be deemed naïve if a member of staff from a company has promised me several times that I would be reimbursed? What's wrong with believing that?

Only now do I maybe see that about myself yes but initially I don't.


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## S63

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Why would I be deemed naïve if a member of staff from a company has promised me several times that I would be reimbursed? What's wrong with believing that?
> 
> Only now do I maybe see that about myself yes but initially I don't.


 I can only reinforce what was said at the very start of this ongoing saga. To believe national franchises like National, Kwik Fit etc are a better and safer option than a good indie is naive, plenty of horror stories here and elsewhere that should be enough to set alarm bells ringing.


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## AndyC

S63 nailed it TBH chap. You needed to get this agreed, in person and on the day it happened. Written letter or email send then & there stating that they accept responsibility and that they will cover repair costs to whatever amount.

That way you have their admission and resolution and at least you know you'll get paid.


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## VW Golf-Fan

I see your point guys but I have several calls between myself and the area manager recorded where he states multiple times that they will reimburse me once the refurb had been paid.

I have sent them the proof of receipt from the refurber showing that I paid so they can't deny that.

Surely taped conversations are just as good?


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## Nanoman

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I see your point guys but I have several calls between myself and the area manager recorded where he states multiple times that they will reimburse me once the refurb had been paid.
> 
> I have sent them the proof of receipt from the refurber showing that I paid so they can't deny that.
> 
> Surely taped conversations are just as good?


How did you record the conversations and did you tell him the conversations were being recorded? In a civil case you can't use the recording unless they consented to it happening.

Did you get anything in writing at all, ever?


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## VW Golf-Fan

Nanoman said:


> How did you record the conversations and did you tell him the conversations were being recorded? In a civil case you can't use the recording unless they consented to it happening.
> 
> Did you get anything in writing at all, ever?


I recorded the conversations on my Tablet and I said at the start of each call that I was recording our conversation (he never acknowledged this verbally though.)

Why cant I use a taped conversation with the fact that I mentioned to him that was being taped in a civil case? Consent or not is out of the question, it is the proof I need that he said I would be reimbursed for my alloys.

Never got anything in writing no (it's bad enough getting them to answer the phone) but I do have the emails of what I sent to them and the 3 emails I've had from them.


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## Starbuck88

I own a call answering company.

If you told him you were recording them and have it on tape and you can clearly hear you saying that to him after you have said hello to one another, then you have done your duty and he has been notified.

It's fine.

If however you just recorded them and didn't tell the person, they can't be used in court, only for 'internal' business purposes. They'll just get thrown out.

Ref this whole thing. I'm afraid you really shouldn't trust anybody that you haven't had an ongoing relationship with.

All these national brands are a bunch of pratts and service is hit and miss.

I had a problem with Kwik-Fit a few years ago. They knackered my TPMS and damaged a valve. The Assistant manager was an arrogant prat, the type that makes crap up because he believes others don't have the knowledge he does, ******.

Anyway, after my ordeal, that night, I shot an email off to Head Office. The day after I had a call from the Manager to go in and they started to get it rectified, ordered in new sensors from a local parts place and got it done.

I'm sorry VWGF but I think you have the best intentions in all the world but you seem to act a little wet behind the ears and am afraid with 'orrible richard heads out there....you'll get taken for a ride.

That's the world we live in.


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## S63

Whether your recordings are legal or not I don't know, a tricky area, mine certainly weren't at an industrial tribunal.

I stand by what I said at the beginning, wipe your mouth, walk away, put it down to experience. The aggro of persuing this far outweighs the end result.


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## nbray67

I've read odd bits of this thread VW Golf Fan over the last 4 weeks or so and I must say, from the day you posted this 'complaint' on the 28th Feb up until today, National have done nothing but fob you off since day 1 and it's only now that you admit you may have been a bit naive.

There are plenty of us on here that wouldn't have let this go a week let alone over a month with no resolution.

Trading Standards is where you need to be rather than a small claims court, also, recording conversations without prior warning that you were doing so is worthless, rather like the 'cheque' that they have sent out.

You've made a rod for your own back by not sorting this out straight away, just kicking off in the branch, once they 1st fobbed you off, in front of potential customers would've got their attention a lot quicker than everything else you've tried.

They'll pay up in the end but not until they've given you an almighty run around as they have seen right from the very start that all of your actions/threats to act have just fallen by the wayside I'm afraid.


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## Kash-Jnr

Just read 15 pages of this thread :lol: 

If you have a problem you go straight to the top, then the little men on the bottom get their arses in gear. National have given you the run around. It seems for weeks between the managers it was an ongoing inside joke. Hopefully you get the check but in future you should listen, phoning the CC company would have more than likely sped this whole situation up.

I think you should re-direct your eagerness in posting every tid bit of information onto the forum towards finding a resolution in the shortest amount of time.


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## MDC250

Wow there's 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

In the time it's taken me to read that I could have let the credit card company know a claim is coming, drafted proceedings and sent them to National.

Would have given them 14 days to pay for repairer of my choice and sued on day 15.

National would have been Defendant 1, credit card company Defendant number 2.

Have sued over a lost holiday and a fireplace of all things previously. Each time my credit card company has paid out and I've recovered more for my troubles.


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## bidderman1969

i said about the CC company from as far back as i care to look, but seems like someone knew best regardless of older folk having more knowledge, and were trying to help you out


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## MDC250

bidderman1969 said:


> i said about the CC company from as far back as i care to look, but seems like someone knew best regardless of older folk having more knowledge, and were trying to help you out


Yup no idea why advice wasn't followed, could have all been sorted by now.


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## Nanoman

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I recorded the conversations on my Tablet and I said at the start of each call that I was recording our conversation (he never acknowledged this verbally though.)
> 
> Why cant I use a taped conversation with the fact that I mentioned to him that was being taped in a civil case? Consent or not is out of the question, it is the proof I need that he said I would be reimbursed for my alloys.
> 
> Never got anything in writing no (it's bad enough getting them to answer the phone) but I do have the emails of what I sent to them and the 3 emails I've had from them.


If he continued the conversation that implies consent. Now prove you haven't modified the recording to suit your argument. That will be expensive if it is possible. It's unlikely to stand up as evidence. Where is your proof without that and with nothing in writing. Then there's the counter claim for slandering them on DW. Remember if you take them to court the decision could go the wrong way and you could have to pay them damages. It explains all this on the court guidance forms.


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## GleemSpray

The OP has an astonishing natural talent for making simple things difficult.....


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## Marve

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I recorded the conversations on my Tablet and I said at the start of each call that I was recording our conversation (he never acknowledged this verbally though.)


He was probably too busy mouthing the word **** at his work colleague with the phone barely to his ear to verbally acknowledge you if that was your opening statement of each phonecall. I reckon you have now turned into a game for them whereby they see how long they can drag you out for. I am sure they will pay out eventually, they are just having a little fun at your expense as I am sure you have come across to them as you have done to most on this thread.


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## andy665

Marve said:


> He was probably too busy mouthing the word **** at his work colleague with the phone barely to his ear to verbally acknowledge you if that was your opening statement of each phonecall. I reckon you have now turned into a game for them whereby they see how long they can drag you out for. I am sure they will pay out eventually, they are just having a little fun at your expense as I am sure you have come across to them as you have done to most on this thread.


We all make mistakes - the trick is to learn from them - you have been naive and too trusting but thats hardly a crime - I'm sure you will get your money but in future I suggest you trust people only when they have earned the right to be trusted

I confirm all my conversations with companies / clients and colleagues via email so there is a paper trail and no room for people to renage on what was verbally agreed - hate doing it but its about protecting yourself - I learned the hard way not to trust


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## bidderman1969

She yet another letter stating that you will be charging interest after a certain date before going to small claims court


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## VW Golf-Fan

bidderman1969 said:


> She yet another letter stating that you will be charging interest after a certain date before going to small claims court


She? Who's she?

That thought did cross my mind if I have to take out a small claim against them.


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## bidderman1969

I was in the middle of Sainsburys when I wrote that, should have said "send"


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## VW Golf-Fan

Received my cheque a few weeks ago from National & no it didn't bounce.


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## Juke_Fan

Glad you got it sorted in the end.


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## VW Golf-Fan

Juke_Fan said:


> Glad you got it sorted in the end.


Thanks. 

I'm glad to put the whole situation to bed.


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## VW Golf-Fan

Got my two alloys refurbished after the garage eventually paid up.

One month or so after they have been refurbished I noticed what I thought was the paint/lacquer peeling in a small section when I was washing the wheels. 

I went back to the place that refurbished them the next day & the painter there basically said that I was more or less to blame saying I scuffed them or that a stone could have doe that or even someone kicking it?! Now why would anyone kick a wheel?  

But that didn't stop him putting some lacquer on it, so maybe he knew I was right and felt guilty?

What do we reckon folks, do I have grounds to get them to refurbish it again or is it just a crap repair?


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## Sicskate

I wouldn't be too impressed, but I don't think that damage has happened due to the bodyshop as I looks more like a scrape that lacquer peel.


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## VW Golf-Fan

Sicskate said:


> I wouldn't be too impressed, but I don't think that damage has happened due to the bodyshop as I looks more like a scrape that lacquer peel.


You could be right.

Do you mean you wouldn't be impressed with the garages attitude or the quality of the refurbishment?


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## Kerr

Have you got pictures of the mark prior to that touch up?

I've seen some poorly refurbished power coated wheels, but not wheels with one bit missing. 

It's only a small area, so maybe had a slight glance of a kerb that you never noticed?


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## VW Golf-Fan

Kerr said:


> Have you got pictures of the mark prior to that touch up?
> 
> I've seen some poorly refurbished power coated wheels, but not wheels with one bit missing.
> 
> It's only a small area, so maybe had a slight glance of a kerb that you never noticed?


Yeah I have pictures of the wheel prior to the touch up. It's done naff all to change the look of it & as I said all he did was put some more lacquer on it.

There is a 5% chance I may have scuffed it but I can't be sure.


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