# New Car Buying Debate



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

How do you go about choosing your next car do follow these steps if so in witch order and why and what combinations.

1. Body Style, Looks

2. performance &Handling

3. Front-Rear-AWD Drive

4. Brand

5. Engine torque or BHP

6. Sound

7. Economy & Insurance

8. Price

9. Depreciation

10. Buying with your heart


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

My next car will be because I like it and can afford it, a very good chance it will be a VW Golf GTI mk 7 and then with some options


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Avanti said:


> My next car will be because I like it and can afford it, a very good chance it will be a VW Golf GTI mk 7 and then with some options


Like your straight to the point approach but why VW rather than say similar car from Merc, Audi, BMW, Ford, Renault Sport etc?


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## voon (Apr 28, 2010)

First, there's a price limit.

And then I basically just go out and want everything. That's why a loaded M135i xdrive is arriving end of December  Obviously, my approaches are not very pragmatic and sensible ... I like a bit of emotion in it.

I find looks important, being not only a washing, but just generally a car enthusiast. But I'll accept some look drawbacks, if the rest of the technical side is overwhelmingly good.

If I had money ad libitum, I'd just get me a top end Aston Martin. But then my dreams would be at an end, and that's boring.


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## Brian mc21 (Aug 4, 2012)

I buy something on its looks, running cost, how practical it is. Sometimes though I feel like buying something cheap to take away the repayments, worry of expensive repairs, some tool scratching it or car park damage etc.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

voon said:


> First, there's a price limit.
> 
> And then I basically just go out and want everything. That's why a loaded M135i xdrive is arriving end of December


Omg this is the car that prompted this thread , I say no more at this stage in the debate, you will have fun , why have you opted for 4 wheel drive and did you not go with performace in mind for the money with that choice?


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Brian mc21 said:


> I buy something on its looks, running cost, how practical it is. Sometimes though I feel like buying something cheap to take away the repayments, worry of expensive repairs, some tool scratching it or car park damage etc.


Great point and if I look at my car history circumstances, family, points on licence have all come into play at certain times. At has been the ones I least enjoyed to be honest


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

I really don't know what I will replace the spec B with.TBH it will be a long time before I even consider changing it.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Voon your comets you added have hit the nail on the head as quoted below I'm starting to understand my problems with selecting my new car 


I find looks important, being not only a washing, but just generally a car enthusiast. But I'll accept some look drawbacks, if the rest of the technical side is overwhelmingly good.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Ross said:


> I really don't know what I will replace the spec B with.TBH it will be a long time before I even consider changing it.


We all know you love that beast you why change it for sure:thumb: how are you doing Ross


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I'm looking for a replacement for the cupra but won't change for the sake of it, yes looks are part of it but for me, performance,good all round performance that is, comfort and a number of toys. When I went looking for the cupra my priorities were different to now.

This time I want something quick, petrol, can be tweaked, enough toys to keep me happy, can take a towbar and comfortable. It's easy to find most of that but when the other conditions are age - 2 years or newer, budget, current car + 5k or near to it my options become limited.

The closest I can get at the moment is either a focus 1.6 ecoboost or a skoda Octavia 1.8tsi or vrs. The focus is winning at the moment


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

SteveTDCi said:


> I'm looking for a replacement for the cupra but won't change for the sake of it, yes looks are part of it but for me, performance,good all round performance that is, comfort and a number of toys. When I went looking for the cupra my priorities were different to now.
> 
> This time I want something quick, petrol, can be tweaked, enough toys to keep me happy, can take a towbar and comfortable. It's easy to find most of that but when the other conditions are age - 2 years or newer, budget, current car + 5k or near to it my options become limited.
> 
> The closest I can get at the moment is either a focus 1.6 ecoboost or a skoda Octavia 1.8tsi or vrs. The focus is winning at the moment


Thanks Steve good rational and agree not easy as you say you have short listed to very good cars IMHO , the new ST will make a cracking second hand buy very soon:thumb:


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

If I had to sell the Spec B I would get another Legacy the 2 liter diesel and remap it,apparently its a very good engine.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I bought my 335i on a combination of above. 

I think you have to weigh up a car using all of the above but weighted in the sectors that mean most. 

Too many people end up buying cars solely based on image and end up paying over-the-odds for very average cars.


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

10, 8, 1, 2. I'd combine 2 and 3 together as handling is performance to me. 

The majority of times I never go to look for a new car I usually just come across one without being in the market for one. I bought my current mx5 because I had a mk1 mx5 and one came at a good price. Obviously been newer its performance was better. Handles just as well ( with an alignment). It was important for me to have a convertible roof as I have now decided I love convertibles. The looks were not completely down to my taste but I knew I could make it into a car I liked the look of. 

I've been very very lucky with cars. I've usually gone in heart first and bought the first ones really liked the look of. I've never found a lemon yet touch wood. Obviously I know what to look for generally but specific things that particular model suffers from (faults) I have always been lucky with. 

I do keep looking at 350z at the moment though, again another heart thing. Wo knows I might see one for sale and buy it one day.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Kerr said:


> I bought my 335i on a combination of above.
> 
> I think you have to weigh up a car using all of the above but weighted in the sectors that mean most.
> 
> Too many people end up buying cars solely based on image and end up paying over-the-odds for very average cars.


Kerr yes agree with the last part fully see it all the time in my Andre people chopping in cars not long after they get them must lose a packet, my issue is heart love of driving a properly sorted car versus sensible at the same time and trying to meet in the middle as usually keep my cars between 4 to 5 years so I have to select correct:thumb:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Guitarjon said:


> 10, 8, 1, 2. I'd combine 2 and 3 together as handling is performance to me.
> 
> The majority of times I never go to look for a new car I usually just come across one without being in the market for one. I bought my current mx5 because I had a mk1 mx5 and one came at a good price. Obviously been newer its performance was better. Handles just as well ( with an alignment). It was important for me to have a convertible roof as I have now decided I love convertibles. The looks were not completely down to my taste but I knew I could make it into a car I liked the look of.
> 
> ...


Yes 2&3 should be together and good route 10,8,1 ,2&3

350z has got that something and when it first came grew on me but what about the GT86 would not work great car I believe and when gets a bigger powered engine should be fantastic:thumb:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm not a brand snob or loyal to any brand but at this time used BMWs is where I would be putting my money. 


I've always considered BMW a step up from Audi in aspects I find most important. 

However it seems these days the equivelent Audi costs far more and VW cars aren't far behind. 

I don't understand what BMW has done wrong or what VW and Audi have done differently in recent years to make their desirability soar like it has. 

They have always made good cars but nothing spectacular. 

Good to see Audi drivers have stolen BMW driver's dodgy reputation though.


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

Derekh929 said:


> Yes 2&3 should be together and good route 10,8,1 ,2&3
> 
> 350z has got that something and when it first came grew on me but what about the GT86 would not work great car I believe and when gets a bigger powered engine should be fantastic:thumb:


Something still makes me look at them when I see them. Good for me that they are pretty cheap now. I haven't driven the gt86 but the z has all the power id need and sounds fantastic. To be honest he mx5 has all he power I need. I feel anything more would be wasted for the road. Plenty of track potential too.


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

There's something about bmws that stand out compared to Audi and vw IMO. I see vw and Audi as being the same with a different badge. BMW is on its own.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Before you buy the 135m checkout the new 4 series.

Doubt it will be such q bargain though.


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## john90 (Nov 22, 2012)

Bmw are still the best drivers car out of Audi and bmw, but bmw have and continue to employ questionable designers in recent years, Audis just look better in the most part in recent years, and when most cars are A to B and very both very good at it then design becomes the most important factor. True drivers cars like the M3 still outsell the equivalent RS4 because ability is more important than looks to the true driving enthusiasts.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Kerr said:


> I'm not a brand snob or loyal to any brand but at this time used BMWs is where I would be putting my money.
> 
> I've always considered BMW a step up from Audi in aspects I find most important.
> 
> ...


Good quote that last one :lol: well I will come clean some history. Had E30 3 series with sport kit like e30 M3 and E46 330d M Sport , current E90 330d M Sport , and this time I have looked at many Audi out due to dynamics although I love the A5 , I'm struggling with the fact the new F30 330d M Sport is really pushing budget and auto only and I love manual boxes tab for the control entering corners and always know the correct gear without having to think.
Next problem new 328i engine know 4 cylinder and very good but I love the devil torque, then I'm totally bowled over with the new M135i strange selection but it seems by F30 forum I'm one of quite a few in same position:thumb:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Guitarjon said:


> Something still makes me look at them when I see them. Good for me that they are pretty cheap now. I haven't driven the gt86 but the z has all the power id need and sounds fantastic. To be honest he mx5 has all he power I need. I feel anything more would be wasted for the road. Plenty of track potential too.


I think you would not go wrong MX5 driven and fun I see your trend here rear wheel drive :thumb:
The GT86 I have to have a test drive for fun as seems very very good and best Toyota since the 80's


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## MA3RC (Jun 19, 2012)

My next car will be a new Focus ST, I've always been a fan of fast Fords from a very young age, I blame my dad for buying me a Sierra Cosworth Scalextric . I think he bought it when I was born in the hope I'd follow his obsession with cars! 

I've had a Fiat, Toyota, Renault and two Fords. Hopefully get the ST next year as I'll be 25 and the insurance won't be as bad.

All the previous cars I've owned have tended to be based looks, cost, & gadgets. The brand has never really bothered me. So long as I like it I'm happy


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## alx_chung (Aug 13, 2006)

For me it really depends on what I like or lust after at that point in time. I did toy with the idea of having a weekend small, fun pocket rocket for a bit (till my senses and financial head put that idea to bed)
Don't forsee me changing my current car for a while (again sensible and financial head coming into play) but for my next car it will have to have some comfort, power, kit, economy, space and be sporty. So it could be a powerful estate or saloon but I do like the BMW 4 Series and the F30 Saloon (330D M Sport)
Alex


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Kerr said:


> Before you buy the 135m checkout the new 4 series.
> 
> Doubt it will be such q bargain though.


Aye seen it in Auto Car this week was drooling cant see them keeping the front and rear valance like that though and cost will likely be higher than salon but with the 135i engine in fantastic


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

john90 said:


> Bmw are still the best drivers car out of Audi and bmw, but bmw have and continue to employ questionable designers in recent years, Audis just look better in the most part in recent years, and when most cars are A to B and very both very good at it then design becomes the most important factor. True drivers cars like the M3 still outsell the equivalent RS4 because ability is more important than looks to the true driving enthusiasts.


John I will give you great example of Audi shotting themselves in the foot with dynamics guy I know had S5 I drove great car fantastic grip but have to flat and sterile but v8 sounded fantastic, was going to get RS5 but was delayed lucky for him , he test drove M3 so what does he drive know and did he cancel his order?
I have driven both and Audi is a great car but just missing something for me built excellent build imho


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## Blueberry (Aug 10, 2007)

Being a woman, I choose a car on looks, first and foremost. Followed by how economical it is and sorry guys, never a RWD. Just too risky in winter.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

S1600Marc said:


> My next car will be a new Focus ST, I've always been a fan of fast Fords from a very young age, I blame my dad for buying me a Sierra Cosworth Scalextric . I think he bought it when I was born in the hope I'd follow his obsession with cars!
> 
> I've had a Fiat, Toyota, Renault and two Fords. Hopefully get the ST next year as I'll be 25 and the insurance won't be as bad.
> 
> All the previous cars I've owned have tended to be based looks, cost, & gadgets. The brand has never really bothered me. So long as I like it I'm happy


Marc :lol: I tried that with my son been a long haul but been to Goodwood Fos 5 years in a row and nearly there know, but would have loved him to be into motocross like as was or karting or off roaring but Xbox is king, as for car choice new ST great choice EthanC on here has just got a nice one


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Blueberry said:


> Being a woman, I choose a car on looks, first and foremost. Followed by how economical it is and sorry guys, never a RWD. Just too risky in winter.


Hi great to get feed back from woman as well thanks , I think the rear wheel drive thing in winter is blown out of proportion to be honest if you love cars try a test drive of a nicely sorted rear drive you may change your buying priorities:thumb:


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## avit88 (Mar 19, 2012)

personally it has to have a solid feel and be very reliable
then economy
but also have performance that is enjoyable in my eyes
I also like a car to take me home in total comfort but also have a bit of fun

my golf does all that for me I look at other cars and think why bother as they are not that much better when you weigh out how much they cost.

I would prob go for a mazda mk5 next though, little bit more driver involvement and power, also reliable i hear?

looks is right at the bottom
also price is my limiting factor!


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Blueberry said:


> Being a woman, I choose a car on looks, first and foremost. Followed by how economical it is and sorry guys, never a RWD. Just too risky in winter.





Derekh929 said:


> Hi great to get feed back from woman as well thanks , I think the rear wheel drive thing in winter is blown out of proportion to be honest if you love cars try a test drive of a nicely sorted rear drive you may change your buying priorities:thumb:


It is exaggerated a lot as all cars with wide and low profile tyres struggle.

Also with all the traction control and stability systems it is hard to make too bad a mistake.

Although it is bloody good fun when you do turn it off and you will soon learn a lot about car control.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

To be honest I find rear wheel drive overrated, I've driven a couple and I just don't see what the fuss is about.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

avit88 said:


> personally it has to have a solid feel and be very reliable
> then economy
> but also have performance that is enjoyable in my eyes
> I also like a car to take me home in total comfort but also have a bit of fun
> ...


Another good call re reliability missed that but all cars catching the Germans in this area especially the German makers ie the Koreans imho


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## avit88 (Mar 19, 2012)

Derekh929 said:


> Another good call re reliability missed that but all cars catching the Germans in this area especially the German makers ie the Koreans imho


yes the koreans always interest me, i will just have to wait a few more years to see if all these claims are true, bit early to tell at the moment i think.


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## Dannbodge (Sep 26, 2010)

I don't know how I decide which car I want. I just look at some and decide. 

Disastra vxr next for me I think


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

The Japanese are hard to beat for reliability,Ive had the Legacy for 16 months now and its run like clockwork only needing oil and brake pads:thumb:


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

Your welcome to come for a blast in mine mate of your ever in Rotherham!

Reliability is fantastic, only thing that lets them down in my experience is body work. Big problems with mk2s sorta solved on the mk3s but I still feel the paint work is nothing compared with anything German.


avit88 said:


> personally it has to have a solid feel and be very reliable
> then economy
> but also have performance that is enjoyable in my eyes
> I also like a car to take me home in total comfort but also have a bit of fun
> ...


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

SteveTDCi said:


> To be honest I find rear wheel drive overrated, I've driven a couple and I just don't see what the fuss is about.


I have a R56 Cooper S as well I love it had it from new 2007 and great front drive car it's just like controlable oversteer rather than under steer but front drives have moved the game on like Focus RS Revo knuckle struts if that is what you call it, but torque steer is not good and I think limited to a set limit with power with front drive before becomes un enjoyable, but I drove A4 3series C Class similar engines and the audis dynamics was poor not all down to front drive though merc was good though


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## Blueberry (Aug 10, 2007)

Derekh929 said:


> Hi great to get feed back from woman as well thanks , I think the rear wheel drive thing in winter is blown out of proportion to be honest if you love cars try a test drive of a nicely sorted rear drive you may change your buying priorities:thumb:


I do love cars and I have driven RWD but not to my liking. TBH, my sister has had RWD most of her driving life - 35 ish years - and every winter, without fail, she struggles to get anywhere with snow on the ground. Countless times, I've had to help her get out of her cul de sac and countless times, she's had to abandon her cars for days at a time, because it can't get through. She is an accomplished driver BTW, so none of that .... Women drivers ..... lol. I've been behind many RWD cars in winters with icy conditions and the back end is twitching like nothing on earth, trying to get traction.

My RCZ has wide, low profile tyres and I've not had any problems in the snow over the last 2 years - that includes the very bad winter we had 2 years ago too. FWD every time for me


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

SteveTDCi said:


> To be honest I find rear wheel drive overrated, I've driven a couple and I just don't see what the fuss is about.


You have more feel and control over the car.

The steering is more precise and more feel as the front wheels aren't overworked trying to do everything.

I would struggle to go back.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

AWD is a good comprise to RWD,maybe not as sharp in the corners but it goes around them like its on rails:thumb:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Dannbodge said:


> I don't know how I decide which car I want. I just look at some and decide.
> 
> Disastra vxr next for me I think


Well on looks with the VXR as in Arden Blue they looks fantastic cars IMHO I think handling let's them down slightly but the new VXR I believe has cured most of that:thumb:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Ross said:


> AWD is a good comprise to RWD,maybe not as sharp in the corners but it goes around them like its on rails:thumb:


AWD isn't anywhere near the fun of RWD.

Evos and WRX STis are very capable machines and will beat most cars on most roads. The fun factor in numbed down too much though with the traction levels and computers driving for you.

The majority of the best cars in the world are RWD or systems where the vast majority of power is nearly always at the back.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Kerr said:


> It is exaggerated a lot as all cars with wide and low profile tyres struggle.
> 
> Also with all the traction control and stability systems it is hard to make too bad a mistake.
> 
> Although it is bloody good fun when you do turn it off and you will soon learn a lot about car control.


Aye and they sorted this on F30 just slip into sport plus and you are in control no traction but I miss mechanical steering IMHO I felt ever slip of the wheel with my E30 so I could place the front where I wanted it:thumb:


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Kerr said:


> You have more feel and control over the car.
> 
> The steering is more precise and more feel as the front wheels aren't overworked trying to do everything.
> 
> I would struggle to go back.


Is that why rwd struggle in the wet and snow ? Even in btcc the only thing rwd can do is start quickly. The rest of the time the fwd cars rule  even on the brief runs including a csl around rockingham I fail to see all the fuss.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

SteveTDCi said:


> Is that why rwd struggle in the wet and snow ? Even in btcc the only thing rwd can do is start quickly. The rest of the time the fwd cars rule  even on the brief runs including a csl around rockingham I fail to see all the fuss.


The strange thing with this with BTCC is correct but usually money buying the wins WSR racing team manager and owner I had the pleasure of having a long chat with him at Brands Hatch and asked why when team RAC they one but struggle know a money and sponsorship is key and top driver look at DTM this year 6 cars BM and Audi 8 and Merc 8 , good debate guys , thanks


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Well an e46 M3 really struggled to keep up with me in the pouring rain,he was not happy when I went ripping past him:thumb:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

SteveTDCi said:


> Is that why rwd struggle in the wet and snow ? Even in btcc the only thing rwd can do is start quickly. The rest of the time the fwd cars rule  even on the brief runs including a csl around rockingham I fail to see all the fuss.


The BMW taking part in the BTCC is about 6-7 years old and doesn't have the money of team Honda.

They are running an old spec car with smaller wheels and narrower tyres.

Rob Collard isn't as good as the other drivers either.

In the past the RWD touring cars had to carry more weight to equal up the racing.

Never heard anyone saying FWD rules before. I've always seen FWD as a safer learners car to learn driving before progressing to RWD.

It is harder to drive a RWD fast but more rewarding.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Ross said:


> Well an e46 M3 really struggled to keep up with me in the pouring rain,he was not happy when I went ripping past him:thumb:


Aye bet I held his head in shame, I think the road in Shetland deserve a bit of respect narrow and some very uneven surface well when visited years ago would suit the 4x4 for sure:thumb:

Good debate but not taking the bait and turning into Apple Vrs Andriod Debate:lol:


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

The roads up here are pretty good,I over took him and held it going.He only caught up a few miles later desperate to get past but I did not let him.I think he was more surprised that I got past and did not have a clue what kinda car it was,tbh there was a lot of water on the road but the Sleeper never let me down:thumb:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Ross said:


> The roads up here are pretty good,I over took him and held it going.He only caught up a few miles later desperate to get past but I did not let him.I think he was more surprised that I got past and did not have a clue what kinda car it was,tbh there was a lot of water on the road but the Sleeper never let me down:thumb:


Was 20 yrs ago I drove on them so glad they have improved:thumb:
Aye sleeper car great I knew a got with mk1 escort estate with skinning tyre's but had rover v8 in it was metal


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Derekh929 said:


> Like your straight to the point approach but why VW rather than say similar car from Merc, Audi, BMW, Ford, Renault Sport etc?


Cos I like em, and it's me working for my money, so I will spend it as I deem fit :thumb:
From when I had my 1st one, I promised myself as long as I can afford one, then that is the 'minimum' I will have :speechles


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

Derekh929 said:


> Was 20 yrs ago I drove on them so glad they have improved:thumb:
> Aye sleeper car great I knew a got with mk1 escort estate with skinning tyre's but had rover v8 in it was metal


Look up Royal nail van,an old Escort post van with a Cosworth turbo in the front it goes like stink and it even has old steel wheels.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Looking at the laptimes from the Nurburgring the Ford Focus RS laps at exactly the same time as my BMW 335i. 

I'm surprised the Focus matched it as I've seen it slower elsewhere but I googled the Ring times and both have the same driver. 

The Focus RS has a reputation as being stupidly fast and has loads of trick gadgets to try and get 300BHP down. It is known as being a very focused hot hatch. 

My car is known for being a fine handling car, I don't even have any trick differential and have a car that is a good all round car. 

It isn't a focused car that is pushing the limits. 

With the same power it still matches/beats the fastest FWD of modern times.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

alx_chung said:


> For me it really depends on what I like or lust after at that point in time. I did toy with the idea of having a weekend small, fun pocket rocket for a bit (till my senses and financial head put that idea to bed)
> Don't forsee me changing my current car for a while (again sensible and financial head coming into play) but for my next car it will have to have some comfort, power, kit, economy, space and be sporty. So it could be a powerful estate or saloon but I do like the BMW 4 Series and the F30 Saloon (330D M Sport)
> Alex


Alex sounds great to me pocket rocket , have to say F30 330d M Sport pulling heart strings:thumb:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Kerr said:


> The BMW taking part in the BTCC is about 6-7 years old and doesn't have the money of team Honda.
> 
> They are running an old spec car with smaller wheels and narrower tyres.
> 
> ...


I think if you look at how the WTCC had been spoiled from the days of Any Priaulx great guy and Chevy buying the wins rob Huff is great guy and glad he won as has plenty of time for his fans


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Derekh929 said:


> I think if you look at how the WTCC had been spoiled from the days of Any Priaulx great guy and Chevy buying the wins rob Huff is great guy and glad he won as has plenty of time for his fans


I've not seen the WTCC for years as I don't have sky tv at home.

The BTCC is still fun but it is completely unbalanced.

The Honda is miles ahead but they keep reducing their power and still winning with ballast at every event.

The MG if it didn't break down too.

It doesn't help having cars of completely different specs in the same race.

Money is everything.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Kerr said:


> I've not seen the WTCC for years as I don't have sky tv at home.
> 
> The BTCC is still fun but it is completely unbalanced.
> 
> ...


Totally look when Vaxhaul where in the Italian cleaned up you would need more manufacture teams tbo as you say completely unbalanced, well the I'm no further on with my choice of car but have enjoyed the banter:thumb:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Wait for the FWD M135I. :lol:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Kerr said:


> Wait for the FWD M135I. :lol:


Stop causing trouble :lol: did you see the bit in Auto car re salon m135i could be front drive I think are trying to share platforms with mini I hear oh no


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I can't see that. 

They have been predicting the 1 series to go fwd for years. 

With all the running gear and a big engine in the front the car would be nose heavy. 

BMW always promote the need to be accurate on weight distribution and balance.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

For me when I buy cars it's mostly (95% of the time) because of how the car looks first of all.

Secondly, it has to tick all the boxes in terms of the performance I'm after on it & also the brand is quite important.


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## Ross (Apr 25, 2007)

VW Golf-Fan said:


> For me when I buy cars it's mostly (95% of the time) because of how the car looks first of all.
> 
> Secondly, it has to tick all the boxes in terms of the performance I'm after on it & also the brand is quite important.


So it's a Golf you go for?


----------



## Hasan1 (Jul 1, 2011)

Only 3 on your list that I ever use 

price then Economy then buy with your heart


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Ross said:


> Well an e46 M3 really struggled to keep up with me in the pouring rain,he was not happy when I went ripping past him:thumb:


Must have either been something to do with the weather or his car was broken or he was a crap driver. An e46 M3 would destroy your car, sorry.


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

I was put off buying a golf with a cream interior once, that and a lot of my friends had golfs. I went for the identical spec Leon in the end.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I just pick my budget and then (usually) get the daftest car possible... :lol:

Don't really care about economy or running costs... Like my cars to be a bit plain and understand... Hence why I never really got on with the jag... Actually really like that my cars now look 'crap' and 'boring' :lol:

Love the RWD v AWD debate... Always seems to come down to 'drivers' :lol:  

Any of you RWD 'drivers' fancy a go at my numb and boring quattros I'll wait for you up the road... :driver: 

I always liken a RWD car to one of those chavvy bretling watches with 400 knobs and buttons, yes it will get you rescued if you get lost in the jungle, yes it's a million miles water proof... But at the end of the day you'll never use it...

Same with RWD... Yes, probably, on the perfect road, in perfect weather, with the perfect driver, it may be better than the AWD version of that car... It just never happens..

All you're left with is shouting about 'drivers cars' and doing wheel spins to try and impress that tramp of a girl that 'loves' the chavvy watches...

Each to their own though, and all the better for it....

:thumb:


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Brand these days for me i only buy german cars these days mostly Audi at the moment i've got a coming up to 3 year old S5 but i've also got a 7 yr A3 daily car for work but i've had 27 odd cars in 20 years XR2's ,GTE, 205 GTI,Golf's Audi 80, TT,S3 8l ,mini RS2000,XR3,MGB, Alfasud,BMW 3series never had a merc i don't like mercedes for some reason unless they're high end ones..so i go for brand,performance,looks not always in that order the reason i go for audi's nowadays is for the reliability they've been the most reliable cars i've had anyway,even my S3 8l in the 5 years i owned it i think all i changed on it was shocks and ARB's iirc most of the time i drive my mrs Cooper S which i enjoy for the handling,even though i'm 6ft.2,it's a great little car to drive imo


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Kerr said:


> I can't see that.
> 
> They have been predicting the 1 series to go fwd for years.
> 
> ...


Yes mainly 49/51 approx and the 4 Series should be great in this area as 67mm lower than Salon in info and sounds like it will be one of BMW's best handling cars if they keep the weight down imagine the M135 engine in an E30 M3:thumb:
I do think Bmw will do front wheel drive at some point as I had a good chat to some of the guys from R&D when at Goodwood and he said that the percentage of people buying 1 series that divot know it was Rear drive had increased massively over last couple of years hard to believe by you and me but some are not interested as long as reliable looks good and good on fuel


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## bigslippy (Sep 19, 2010)

The Cueball said:


> I just pick my budget and then (usually) get the daftest car possible... :lol:
> 
> Don't really care about economy or running costs... Like my cars to be a bit plain and understand... Hence why I never really got on with the jag... Actually really like that my cars now look 'crap' and 'boring' :lol:
> 
> ...


Well said that man:thumb:


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Had RWD and it's fun if you can drive it properly - especially in the wet, the problem is >90% of people who have rwd can't. Had plenty of 4x4 and AWD cars and they're much more planted and provide a better driving experience for me, once you learn how to launch one properly they fly of the line too.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Some good points made by others


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

bigmc said:


> Had RWD and it's fun if you can drive it properly - especially in the wet, the problem is >90% of people who have rwd can't. Had plenty of 4x4 and AWD cars and they're much more planted and provide a better driving experience for me, once you learn how to launch one properly they fly of the line too.


This problem is when these are tested for example RS3 vs M135i Megane 265 etc the rear and front drive cars came out on top at £10k less , then we look at RS5 vs M3 & C63 AMG and RS5 last I think if the likes of Audi go back to the old RS4 it was great to drive yes AWD , but how much days snow do we get and good winter tyres will do the job, I think Audi should go back to the days of the box arched Quattro like the
Recent concept I bet it will be fantastic to drive


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

SteveTDCi said:


> Some good points made by others


Totally Agree Steve and thanks for your input in the debate all views welcome:thumb:


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## avit88 (Mar 19, 2012)

this is now just a rear wheel drive debate......


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

avit88 said:


> this is now just a rear wheel drive debate......


:lol::lol: it seems to have gone that way fast let's get back on track:thumb:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> I just pick my budget and then (usually) get the daftest car possible... :lol:
> 
> Don't really care about economy or running costs... Like my cars to be a bit plain and understand... Hence why I never really got on with the jag... Actually really like that my cars now look 'crap' and 'boring' :lol:
> 
> ...


Quey great reply but Abarath500 defo not in dull and boring category great looking cars as for Jag have to agree something missing for me test drove a few but did not get it, I would love a modern version of my E30 BM light and very involving and I think weight reduction is key in the future, I think the cars you buy as a business and as personal car can be oh so difference , thanks for your input as allways:thumb:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

avit88 said:


> this is now just a rear wheel drive debate......





Derekh929 said:


> :lol::lol: it seems to have gone that way fast let's get back on track:thumb:


You could add it to the list of things you consider when buying a car.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Kerr said:


> You could add it to the list of things you consider when buying a car.


Little adjustment made to criteria :thumb:


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## Mick (Jan 23, 2010)

For me I generally set myself a budget, and then see what's out there for the money. Then once I narrow it down I start to look at other factors (a couple of owners forum, see what the big hitter issues are, is it something I can do myself, is it a mega bill waiting to happen?) see how reliable they seem to be, see how well rated they seem to be (don't want to be driving something that is horrid to drive).

I also factor in insurance costs (for example, for my budget of 5k for my last car, I had it narrowed to 2 cars - a 2003-5 BMW 320d (high miler) or a 2003-5 (lowish miles) ford mondeo mk3. The mondeo is 350 a year fully comp for me, the BMW would have been closer to 600, not justifiable for me then.

So yeah, insurance is definitely a factor for me as well (and I imagine a much bigger factor for the younger driver now with premiums being high).

Then once I've done all that. I usually throw the research in the bin and buy a rover 220 turbo coupe 


:thumb:


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## DampDog (Apr 16, 2011)

Eck, missed this one, should pay more attention.

When I was young and daft it was all about how the car looked and went, cost wasn't high on the list of things to consider.

Now I'm older and skint, I just look to buy something that is reasonably economical and when I turn the key in a morning it starts. Seems every time I turn on the news the cost of buying and running a car goes up, be it fuel, insurance, maintenance, cost has slowly crept it's was to the top of my considerations. I lean towards German cars, because for me they always been reliable and had good residuals. That said (thought I throw a little fuel on the fire) I wouldn't give a Beema room on the drive, blinkin rear wheel drive, every time I get in one I think I've been plunged back into a 1970's Ford Cortina..:devil: (only Joking before anyone kicks off)

But as they say "one mans poison"


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

I always start looking at cars well above what I want to spend , Then I keep it real by looking at what I really want to spend , Then I find one that's a bit more than I wanted to spend , Then I convince myself to spend that bit extra .

As long as it's got Leather / AC / Twin exhausts / Bluetooth / USB for music / Navigation , Oh and it has to be well built 

Insuarance doesn't factor really , What with being 42 and living in a rural postcode my premiums are very reasonable


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Mick said:


> For me I generally set myself a budget, and then see what's out there for the money. Then once I narrow it down I start to look at other factors (a couple of owners forum, see what the big hitter issues are, is it something I can do myself, is it a mega bill waiting to happen?) see how reliable they seem to be, see how well rated they seem to be (don't want to be driving something that is horrid to drive).
> 
> I also factor in insurance costs (for example, for my budget of 5k for my last car, I had it narrowed to 2 cars - a 2003-5 BMW 320d (high miler) or a 2003-5 (lowish miles) ford mondeo mk3. The mondeo is 350 a year fully comp for me, the BMW would have been closer to 600, not justifiable for me then.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mick another I missed off the list and as you say insurance is a big driver in choice for younger generation and I like the way you look at forums another factor I use have been on F30 forum looking at any spec good bad and problems and discounts achivable


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

DampDog said:


> Eck, missed this one, should pay more attention.
> 
> When I was young and daft it was all about how the car looked and went, cost wasn't high on the list of things to consider.
> 
> ...


Thanks good points but aren't other makers like Kia Etc catching the Germans very fast and badge snobbery keeping the distance bigger? Like your last point but how much fun was aMK1 escort lol that was the real stars in my eye's also the beloved Cosworth sierra , not the 4x4 it was poor and no fun:thumb:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

actually, let's face it, how many of us play the "auto trader game" on the toilet or wherever, but at least once a week...

always good fun to see what is out there for sale!! :lol:

:thumb:


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

The Cueball said:


> actually, let's face it, how many of us play the "auto trader game" on the toilet or wherever, but at least once a week...
> 
> always good fun to see what is out there for sale!! :lol:
> 
> :thumb:


:thumb: Was looking at used porsches just last night :lol:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

The Cueball said:


> actually, let's face it, how many of us play the "auto trader game" on the toilet or wherever, but at least once a week...
> 
> always good fun to see what is out there for sale!! :lol:
> 
> :thumb:


:lol: aye and also the top marks book in tesco looking at £20 to £30k cars with mega up keep and mainlanders risk but they just seem amazing


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

The Cueball said:


> actually, let's face it, how many of us play the "auto trader game" on the toilet or wherever, but at least once a week...
> 
> always good fun to see what is out there for sale!! :lol:
> 
> :thumb:


Can see that one causing issues.

"Why were you so long in the toilet?"

"I was just having a game of Autotrader".

Just doesn't sound right.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

R7KY D said:


> I always start looking at cars well above what I want to spend , Then I keep it real by looking at what I really want to spend , Then I find one that's a bit more than I wanted to spend , Then I convince myself to spend that bit extra .
> 
> As long as it's got Leather / AC / Twin exhausts / Bluetooth / USB for music / Navigation , Oh and it has to be well built
> 
> Insuarance doesn't factor really , What with being 42 and living in a rural postcode my premiums are very reasonable


Good selection criteria you have in the middle and insurance for me not an issue lucky me but being sensible solution needed:thumb:


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

I have three things.
Is it a big saloon, yes check.

Is it french, yes check.

Is it a rancid colour, or is it gas board van white, no check.

Next is either a 508 or maybe if i can find one, a c6.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

PugIain said:


> I have three things.
> Is it a big saloon, yes check.
> 
> Is it french, yes check.
> ...


Thanks Ian no messing approach Citreon have been putting out some very nice motor of late been impressed


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

For me it all depends on what I'm doing with it. One day I'll buy the right car for the job, but commuting to work is just so much more fun in a 32 year old 911 :argie:

tbf, I bought that car when I was 22, so I had to, or walk (You'd be amaxed how often that happened) and the decision to get a Freelander was taken when I found a Cat C one going cheap and the misus sold her Corsa.

I love the Porkie, but only because its old and has character. I wouldn't do what I do with mine in a newer one. When I think about my ideal car, it would be large, comfy, well equipped (by this, I'd expect full leather, heated seats, climate & cruise, ipod and bt connection at least. Don't need sat nav, and I hate parking sensors) and have a personality. Doesn't have to be fast or frugal or dynamic in any way, but if I connect with it, it's all good.

In the past I've normally only kept hold of the British and German cars I've had, though I've never in my life had a new car.

I had an Alfa once, but I just didn't like it as much as I felt I should have. Maybe this one was too reliable


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

Ross said:


> So it's a Golf you go for?


As the name would imply....I would think so.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

CoOkIeMoNsTeR said:


> For me it all depends on what I'm doing with it. One day I'll buy the right car for the job, but commuting to work is just so much more fun in a 32 year old 911 :argie:
> 
> tbf, I bought that car when I was 22, so I had to, or walk (You'd be amaxed how often that happened) and the decision to get a Freelander was taken when I found a Cat C one going cheap and the misus sold her Corsa.
> 
> ...


Thanks nice story and thanks for the input we are all looking for different things from our car's would love to see some pics of the 911 please


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

R7KY D said:


> :thumb: Was looking at used porsches just last night :lol:


Looking is fine it's when you pull the trigger the problems start:lol:


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## Jammy J (May 5, 2012)

Hi Derek,

I go for brand everytime, looks and insurance as im still under 25. Dont want to come across as a snob but i just love my German branded cars such as BMWs and Audis, its what i like  Ive owned a vauxhall and a Ford in the past but it simply doesnt do anything for me. Love the quality you get in German cars, the looks and the fact that they tend to hold their value better too. Also insurance plays a big part right now as im still under 25 so im limited as to what to buy.

Ive just moved over to Audi and had my new car seven weeks today and i absolutely love her but i can see myself moving back over to BMW in a few years time, theres just something about BMW that does it for me. Was actually wanting another BMW, looked at a Z4 and 3 series coupe but insurance was ridiculous so moved as the insurance was half the price.


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

Too right!!!

Here she is (I know, I know, I keep posting the same shots, but she's kept in the garage and we get 20mins of daylight over here  )





































Please excuse the brush, that is for cleaning the vans roof :doublesho

And the freebie just for good measure!



















They don't look like that at the moment


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Jammy J said:


> Hi Derek,
> 
> I go for brand everytime, looks and insurance as im still under 25. Dont want to come across as a snob but i just love my German branded cars such as BMWs and Audis, its what i like  Ive owned a vauxhall and a Ford in the past but it simply doesnt do anything for me. Love the quality you get in German cars, the looks and the fact that they tend to hold their value better too. Also insurance plays a big part right now as im still under 25 so im limited as to what to buy.
> 
> Ive just moved over to Audi and had my new car seven weeks today and i absolutely love her but i can see myself moving back over to BMW in a few years time, theres just something about BMW that does it for me. Was actually wanting another BMW, looked at a Z4 and 3 series coupe but insurance was ridiculous so moved as the insurance was half the price.


You make some very good points and good to have a local joining the debate,and German cars are mostly good quality but others are catching fast IMO I seen BMW lose a lot of customers beside me with the Chris Bangle era, many went Merc and Audi and Range Rover Evoque but amazing to see them coming back , Bmw don't need to make buitiful cars as they still sell due to there drive train and balance IMHO I bet you are back to BM faster than 2 years:thumb:


----------



## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

CoOkIeMoNsTeR said:


> Too right!!!
> 
> Here she is (I know, I know, I keep posting the same shots, but she's kept in the garage and we get 20mins of daylight over here  )
> 
> ...


What a classic and thanks for posting the pics, glad you had the balls to follow your dream and really use it to drive rather a toy as so many are , how has it been to keep for cost service and repairs ?


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

Biggest cost so far has been a genuine Porsche alternator @ £600 iirc, other than that, just the odd niggle, a fuel leak here and some loose trim etc.

The interior is looking a little worse for wear atm, with the infamous door bins cum armrests sagging badly on both sides. The front seats are from a later Carrera in black leather and some of the leccie adjustments have a mind of their own. The back seats are normally folded flat anyway tbh and are Porsche script cloth.

There is nothing complex about servicing a 911 yourself. The only peculiarity is the oil filter mounted vertically in the bay. Basic servicing parts are cheap enough from the specialists. 

Before I had it, it had a clutch done with something like a £2k bill, so I wouldn't fancy that much! Fortunatly, it has a good exhaust with hole free heat exchangers, and I like to keep it that way. It was very cheap for what it was and has needed a bit of welding to keep it tin worm free. It's always been silver, but it's had a few coats of paint in it's life and the protection applied from new has been all but removed, so there are a few inevitable bits of rust, only one is now visible on the body.

It's not a show car, but it's not tatty by a long shot. I'd feel bad about using it if it was mint, like my Dads Stag is.

Only real bill day to day is fuel, but I get about 18mpg average on my commute, which I like to take the long way round, and yes, I always arrive with a smile on face. That is why I will not sell it. 168k and counting :thumb:

Also, it always makes me smile when people talk to me about the car and say how nice it is to see one in all weathers, including snow! Once had a bloke come up to me last winter and say "If I owned that, I wouldn't take it out in this weather!" 

My reply
"So you'd walk the 40 miles home would you?"


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

CoOkIeMoNsTeR said:


> Biggest cost so far has been a genuine Porsche alternator @ £600 iirc, other than that, just the odd niggle, a fuel leak here and some loose trim etc.
> 
> The interior is looking a little worse for wear atm, with the infamous door bins cum armrests sagging badly on both sides. The front seats are from a later Carrera in black leather and some of the leccie adjustments have a mind of their own. The back seats are normally folded flat anyway tbh and are Porsche script cloth.
> 
> ...


18mpg that is scaring but you can't put a price on driving a classic you have been fine on repairs some main stream stuff charge £300 to £400 for an alternator , I can see where you get the idea's from if your dad has a Stag, thanks Derek


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR (Mar 6, 2011)

Ha, I forget how much normal car stuff costs sometimes, I'm used to Land Rover parts which are dirt cheap save for the BMW stuff :doublesho Just been looking through the history file amidst the incessant wailing ITV call the X factor and there are some big bills in here!!!
Last respray was £2.5k
Had a gearbox rebuild @ 100k £3.8k
Those seats, sourced and fitted were £800

Plus 30 years of other bills!!!

It's had 11 owners, but thats to be expected on a car like this imo, people buy for a season, get bored and sell on again. I'm in it for the long haul now lol.

Having said that, no noise known to man can ever beat the Stag!




























Drrooooooooooooool :argie:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

CoOkIeMoNsTeR said:


> Ha, I forget how much normal car stuff costs sometimes, I'm used to Land Rover parts which are dirt cheap save for the BMW stuff :doublesho Just been looking through the history file amidst the incessant wailing ITV call the X factor and there are some big bills in here!!!
> Last respray was £2.5k
> Had a gearbox rebuild @ 100k £3.8k
> Those seats, sourced and fitted were £800
> ...


Proper old school British classic drove a MG GBT with overdrive and knew a guy with TR6 but the Stag is the daddy love the grill logo you are exactly the guy that took the plunge that so dare to seing the history bills is why they don't but may regret latter I dreamed of having an E30 M3 when they were £10 k know £20k know so it will have to be a E30 325i sport I really want one


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## Natalie (Jan 19, 2011)

In all honesty recently I look at how much I have to spend, put that into ebay, or autotrader and see what cars come up 
Somehow though my £3k limit this time round, went up to £5k to fund the Anni - I blame the OH for that though I wasn't even looking at Golfs.

Like Blueberry though, aesthetics plays the biggest part in it, I won't even consider a car if I don't like how it looks. I think even at the time the mk2 Clio which I hated, wasn't _that_ bad looking then.

I'm fortunate that I don't do huge mileage so running costs aren't so much of an issue for me.

Thinking about it the Clio aside (and perhaps even the Anni to a degree) I've always had "fun to drive" cars, 106 GTIs, classic Minis and the Puma so that's something I probably do take into consideration.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Natalie said:


> In all honesty recently I look at how much I have to spend, put that into ebay, or autotrader and see what cars come up
> Somehow though my £3k limit this time round, went up to £5k to fund the Anni - I blame the OH for that though I wasn't even looking at Golfs.
> 
> Like Blueberry though, aesthetics plays the biggest part in it, I won't even consider a car if I don't like how it looks. I think even at the time the mk2 Clio which I hated, wasn't _that_ bad looking then.
> ...


Thanks Natalie like your style with putting budget into auto trader, but I sense by previous car selection heart is playing a big part of your selection and sensing a bit of a petrol head here:thumb: please correct me if I'm wrong often am according the the wife.


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## Jammy J (May 5, 2012)

Derekh929 said:


> Bmw don't need to make buitiful cars as they still sell due to there drive train and balance IMHO


So true and totally agree with you.



Derekh929 said:


> I bet you are back to BM faster than 2 years:thumb:


Lol probably  BMW at heart.

EDIT: Love the looks of the 4 series!


----------



## Natalie (Jan 19, 2011)

Derekh929 said:


> Thanks Natalie like your style with putting budget into auto trader, but I sense by previous car selection heart is playing a big part of your selection and sensing a bit of a petrol head here:thumb: please correct me if I'm wrong often am according the the wife.


You're right:thumb: (on this occasion  ) Shame I don't have the money to fund it properly :lol:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Natalie said:


> You're right:thumb: (on this occasion  ) Shame I don't have the money to fund it properly :lol:


Phew result I must be improving some interesting choices great handling the Puma but was very under rated IMO


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Derekh929 said:


> You make some very good points and good to have a local joining the debate,and German cars are mostly good quality but others are catching fast IMO I seen BMW lose a lot of customers beside me with the Chris Bangle era, many went Merc and Audi and Range Rover Evoque but amazing to see them coming back , Bmw don't need to make buitiful cars as they still sell due to there drive train and balance IMHO I bet you are back to BM faster than 2 years:thumb:





Jammy J said:


> So true and totally agree with you.
> 
> Lol probably  BMW at heart.
> 
> EDIT: Love the looks of the 4 series!


BMW are copying Audi marketing these days to shift cars.

BMW always had the M cars then the rest of the range in either SE or M Sport guise.

Audi have the RS models head to head with the M cars, then the S models before coming down to S-Line and then the rest of the range.

The 130i was a match for the S3 and the 135i was far better but neither had the appeal of the car with a letter in its name.

The M3 and RS4 go head to head but people didn't consider the 335i as a direct competitor to the S4/S5 although it was quicker.

They also started filling up little holes with A1, 2,3, 4, 5, 6.

Now BMW is doing the same calling the 3 series coupe the 4 series.

They are also covering the Audi S range by giving the cars M names like the M135i although they over did the M135i to RS3 levels.

It's all marketing, names and image.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Kerr said:


> BMW are copying Audi marketing these days to shift cars.
> 
> BMW always had the M cars then the rest of the range in either SE or M Sport guise.
> 
> ...


Kerr the same with the F30 sport Modern ,SE, luxury , filling space X6 was the start IMHO small sales but taking them into brand then upswell them mini and others:thumb:


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I don't see the m cars like the m135i as a marketing car, I can see your point about it copying the s series cars though. People that buy bmw's and audis buy them because of the ( don't shoot me yet) that's why most of them look the same. I do see cars like the m135i aimed at the enthusiast not the photocopier engineer in his 320d. I am not a BMW fan but do appreciate there engines, rwd I couldn't care less about, if I could I would have an m135i and if I won the lottery a m3csl WOULD be in my garage.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

SteveTDCi said:


> I don't see the m cars like the m135i as a marketing car, I can see your point about it copying the s series cars though. People that buy bmw's and audis buy them because of the ( don't shoot me yet) that's why most of them look the same. I do see cars like the m135i aimed at the enthusiast not the photocopier engineer in his 320d. I am not a BMW fan but do appreciate there engines, rwd I couldn't care less about, if I could I would have an m135i and if I won the lottery a m3csl WOULD be in my garage.


Got ya M3 CSL know your talking option Cd and air on and plastic back window and £20k extra guy on the street had one for a few years sad when he sold it as the sound when he very rarely took it out was amazing have we got a BMW convert :lol:
Numbers as sales key to BM and Audi all marketing game but good cars some of them


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

SteveTDCi said:


> I don't see the m cars like the m135i as a marketing car, I can see your point about it copying the s series cars though. People that buy bmw's and audis buy them because of the ( don't shoot me yet) that's why most of them look the same. I do see cars like the m135i aimed at the enthusiast not the photocopier engineer in his 320d. I am not a BMW fan but do appreciate there engines, rwd I couldn't care less about, if I could I would have an m135i and if I won the lottery a m3csl WOULD be in my garage.


You've missed the bit why they buy them. ... Your are going to say image aren't you?

I think the M135i was a marketing tool.

Fancy new name, performance to wipe the floor with anything similar and a price marginally higher than a Vauxhall Astra VXR.

I don't remember the last BMW that got so much exposure.

It isn't a mental focused M car but suddenly everyone is expecting great things from the rest of the BMW range.

BMW have done things well for so long a good car doesn't get any recognition, it is expected.


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## avit88 (Mar 19, 2012)

bmw vs audi round 1 ding ding!


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

For me it was the noise the feeling of being wedged in the seat and the feeling of alcantra and 3 short laps with lots of encouragement around rockingham. Even a trip I an Audi r8 doesn't give the same kind of feeling although that's was only up and down a runway, in fact I preferred the s7


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Kerr said:


> You've missed the bit why they buy them. ... Your are going to say image aren't you?
> 
> I think the M135i was a marketing tool.
> 
> ...


It's image for the basic models, the m135i is for the evo brigade, big engine and small car with good handling (never drove so cannot comment) lets face it you would never buy the 1 series for its looks. People buy cars for different reasons and while people buy them based on magazine reviews or to keep up with the neighbours I'll buy them based on my opinion,that's why I drive a LeonCupra not a golf gti.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

SteveTDCi said:


> For me it was the noise the feeling of being wedged in the seat and the feeling of alcantra and 3 short laps with lots of encouragement around rockingham. Even a trip I an Audi r8 doesn't give the same kind of feeling although that's was only up and down a runway, in fact I preferred the s7


Emotion Steve just like I got every time I climbed in my E30 in 1988 was an understatement but you had a connection with man and machine like the CSL I have been fortunate to drive some amazing mainstream motor , but my old E30 and Opel Manta I had when I was 19 rate very highly :thumb:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

SteveTDCi said:


> For me it was the noise the feeling of being wedged in the seat and the feeling of alcantra and 3 short laps with lots of encouragement around rockingham. Even a trip I an Audi r8 doesn't give the same kind of feeling although that's was only up and down a runway, in fact I preferred the s7


We have an S7 now?

I'm utterly lost with so many cars in the brand.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

SteveTDCi said:


> It's image for the basic models, the m135i is for the evo brigade, big engine and small car with good handling (never drove so cannot comment) lets face it you would never buy the 1 series for its looks. People buy cars for different reasons and while people buy them based on magazine reviews or to keep up with the neighbours I'll buy them based on my opinion,that's why I drive a LeonCupra not a golf gti.


I always assumed you drive a Focus TDci for some reason. ...


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

SteveTDCi said:


> It's image for the basic models, the m135i is for the evo brigade, big engine and small car with good handling (never drove so cannot comment) lets face it you would never buy the 1 series for its looks. People buy cars for different reasons and while people buy them based on magazine reviews or to keep up with the neighbours I'll buy them based on my opinion,that's why I drive a LeonCupra not a golf gti.


Have to fully agree with you on the looks Steve not my cup of tea was at launch preview at brands hatch everyone was going don't like it but as you say some want the badge and that's for the kudos others its for sheer pleasure of drive


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

There is pretty much an s version of all audis, i liked it a lot, the a6 twin turbo diesel was quick too.

As for the Opel manta, my uncle had the gt/e version in black


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Kerr said:


> We have an S7 now?
> 
> I'm utterly lost with so many cars in the brand.


Mae has the A7 desiel and loves it massive car


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Good night guys thanks for your input today enjoyed that, will come back for more after work Monday


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Kerr said:


> I always assumed you drive a Focus TDci for some reason. ...


In 2002 I did ..... Then a golf gt/tdi then a god awful a3 sline (Audi make the suspension from concrete and class it as sports suspension) and currently my cupra (wife has a 225 tt roadster) but one of the best cars we have had is a 1.7 puma. I'm on the look out for a replacement which is likely to be a new shape focus, not a bad looking car but drives well.


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## rinns (May 24, 2008)

I buy something because I want it, it just comes to mind and want it.

Its said I know but I want a 530d / 535d Touring next, one step closer as the 3 series sold on ebay last night. Loaning a Jag XJ until the end of the financial year then will purchase one. Can't wait.

We also have an Evoque and I cannot get on with that, the lack of space kills me...


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

SteveTDCi said:


> There is pretty much an s version of all audis, i liked it a lot, the a6 twin turbo diesel was quick too.
> 
> As for the Opel manta, my uncle had the gt/e version in black


Steve I had a mk1 white black roof then white GTE coupe then white GTE hatch:thumb:


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

rinns said:


> I buy something because I want it, it just comes to mind and want it.
> 
> Its said I know but I want a 530d / 535d Touring next, one step closer as the 3 series sold on ebay last night. Loaning a Jag XJ until the end of the financial year then will purchase one. Can't wait.
> 
> We also have an Evoque and I cannot get on with that, the lack of space kills me...


Sounds fantastic 530d touring the Evoque is very tight in back nice to drive though drove the 2.4 petrol nice, what do you think of the XJ?


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## rinns (May 24, 2008)

Derekh929 said:


> Sounds fantastic 530d touring the Evoque is very tight in back nice to drive though drove the 2.4 petrol nice, what do you think of the XJ?


Its another level in refinement, 3l twin turbo is great. Got 39mpg hammering it whilst having a back massage in the drivers chair.

Evoque gets 32mpg if im lucky so that will be going as it annoys me. Its the 2.2 sd4 auto. Wife loves it but i like the look of it but things annoy me with it.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

rinns said:


> Its another level in refinement, 3l twin turbo is great. Got 39mpg hammering it whilst having a back massage in the drivers chair.
> 
> Evoque gets 32mpg if im lucky so that will be going as it annoys me. Its the 2.2 sd4 auto. Wife loves it but i like the look of it but things annoy me with it.


Wow 39mpg very good from that lump of motor , plus Massage was the wife ok with this:lol:


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

As I'm buying with the company's money ATM my order goes something like this.

1. Economy - 40k a year
2. Safety - my kids travel in the car, not to mention me
3. Fun factor - it's not all motorway slogging
4. Emissions ref taxation - HMRC have to take their cut
5. Equipment - decent radio, climate and leather and I'm happy
6. Looks - not vital as some of my best runners have been average lookers

I think that even if I opted out my order wouldn't change massively - whilst a smaller 3-door diesel would make sense for me being on my own on the car most of the time, Mrs C isn't a fan of larger cars and it is nice to have something the kids and all their junk fits in. 

I am working on getting her into a C Max or similar so I can downsize and maybe up the grin factor a bit but the simple fact is that for most of my driving the SMax does it all - drives like a Mondeo, returns mid 40's, is safe as houses and can swallow silly amounts of stuff. 

Bear in mind too that I have an old car currently sititng unloved in the garage which takes the above and jumbles it up into a single word - fun


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

AndyC said:


> As I'm buying with the company's money ATM my order goes something like this.
> 
> 1. Economy - 40k a year
> 2. Safety - my kids travel in the car, not to mention me
> ...


Thanks Andy great to have another view , that is another one nobody mention Saftey & Emmisions re road tax , thanks for your input 40K miles need comfort for that:thumb:


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

It's weird really - been a petrolhead for 40-odd years and yet my only driver's cars have been my two 205's. I've always played safe with company cars (last 17 years) - usually because the Carlos Fandango version with 5 turbos wasn't "on the list" lol.

Truthfully though, I tend to head towards what makes sense rather than letting my heart into it. Shame in some ways as it probably means I've missed out on some cars but it does mean I get to spend serious road time in stuff which many might overlook, using pretty much any and every road type.

And when you do the sort of mileage I do, you just want to be able to get out when you get where you're going, quick stretch and get on with it so yes, comfort it hugely important.

Mind, I did manage nearly 700 miles between a Friday am and Sunday pm in the current 205 - now that was an interesting road trip...


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

AndyC said:


> It's weird really - been a petrolhead for 40-odd years and yet my only driver's cars have been my two 205's. I've always played safe with company cars (last 17 years) - usually because the Carlos Fandango version with 5 turbos wasn't "on the list" lol.
> 
> Truthfully though, I tend to head towards what makes sense rather than letting my heart into it. Shame in some ways as it probably means I've missed out on some cars but it does mean I get to spend serious road time in stuff which many might overlook, using pretty much any and every road type.
> 
> ...


Andy love the quote Brilliant
usually because the Carlos Fandango version with 5 turbos wasn't "on the list" lol.

This approach was what i took when had young kids went all sensible VW Passat TDI Sport start of the new ones loved the car apart from dynamics but plenty of space good ecomomy well built , towed the caravan great as well, but the fun part was missing, went from this to e46 330D M Sport Touring and loved it, as you say you can be a petrol head without having the driver focused car, and attend plenty of car related events and websites, as well your quote made smile:thumb:


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

AndyC said:


> As I'm buying with the company's money ATM my order goes something like this.
> 
> 1. Economy - 40k a year
> 2. Safety - my kids travel in the car, not to mention me
> ...


I read that and thought Volvo s60 r design. I would put comfort above all else when covering that distance.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

SteveTDCi said:


> I read that and thought Volvo s60 r design. I would put comfort above all else when covering that distance.


Volvo S60 R sounds good call but are they not getting to expensive know, or is the quality know up with the germans:thumb:


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I would say Volvo build is as good as zee Germans, for me the cabins look far classier than the German brigade, they look less fussy.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...radius/1500/page/3/quicksearch/true?logcode=p

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...code/pe26yx/quicksearch/true/page/4?logcode=p


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Well, I guess I've nearly always been a single-brand whore. I've driven Renault
cars since about 1967. I've strayed to Vauxhalls and the occasional Ford or
Hillman, but always seemed to go back to the comfy long-legged cars that
could traverse a farmer's field at a moment's notice.

Most of my buying decisions have focussed upon practicality, but with a bit
of ooomph attached. So, a Renault 8S, an R16TL converted to TX, R11 Turbo,
and the almost obligatory R5GTT, all fall into my purchase history. Probably
the car that gave me the most fun was the R4L, where I even traversed a
quagmire, traction gained by the friction of the driveshafts on the grass, 
with front wheels gently spinning!

I turned one over into a field at just 5mph, straight off an icy road. It was 
the closest I've ever felt to being in a ballet, it was so graceful. No chance
of being trapped, the doors just dropped off their open hinges! Off-roading in
those was just magic! When I first saw them, I swore I'd never be seen dead
in one...

The present Laguna Coupe was chosen purely upon its Aston Martinesque
looks. As a disabled guy I'm uncertain as to how long I'll be able to continue
to drive, so it's only the 3rd ever car I've bought brand new. So far, if I gave
it away tomorrow, apart from running costs, it has cost me £5K a year, by 
next year that'll be £4k, so depreciation has counted for nothing!

I decided as soon as I saw the concept car that I'd buy one no matter what,
so I've enjoyed the ownership for longer. I drive an exceedingly rare car; 
there were only 120 of the 2L petrol turbo GT cars imported into the country.
I'm not intending to dispose of it any time soon, its build quality is probably 
at the highest that Renault has ever achieved. The best bit is that the longer 
that I keep it, the better the bargain gets. Regrets; what regrets?

I think my post shows that buying decisions can vary as individually as the
cars themselves. Definitely not a "one size fits all" in this arena..!

With Season's Greetings,
Steve


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Lowiepete said:


> Well, I guess I've nearly always been a single-brand whore. I've driven Renault
> cars since about 1967. I've strayed to Vauxhalls and the occasional Ford or
> Hillman, but always seemed to go back to the comfy long-legged cars that
> could traverse a farmer's field at a moment's notice.
> ...


Another fan of French cars, just the wrong ones 
Merry Xmas


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## SarahAnn (Apr 6, 2011)

Ive just changed from a 59 Freelander 2 XS to a 2012 Volvo V60 SE Lux.

The main thing for me was something that was in a low tax band and was cheaper to run than the Freelander as I was sick of filling it up and not getting very far.

The Volvo is £30/year to tax and is supposed to go a lot further on a tank of diesel than the FL did although I've only had it a few days.

I see it as a bonus that it has the things on it that the FL had, ie satnav, heated seats etc and it's turned out to have more extras on it than the FL including DAB radio.

I didnt see it and fall in love. It was purely down to it being cheaper to run. I was on my way to collect it in the 4x4 and it started raining and snowing and I still didnt know if I was doing the right thing but now i have it, i love it.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

SteveTDCi said:


> I would say Volvo build is as good as zee Germans, for me the cabins look far classier than the German brigade, they look less fussy.
> 
> http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...radius/1500/page/3/quicksearch/true?logcode=p
> 
> http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...code/pe26yx/quicksearch/true/page/4?logcode=p


Steve secong one nice with twin colour leather and minimalistic dash, i hate it when im driving and cant lay my hand on all the stuff i need without have to think about where it is


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Lowiepete said:


> Well, I guess I've nearly always been a single-brand whore. I've driven Renault
> cars since about 1967. I've strayed to Vauxhalls and the occasional Ford or
> Hillman, but always seemed to go back to the comfy long-legged cars that
> could traverse a farmer's field at a moment's notice.
> ...


Excellent contribution Steve enjoyed that, i remember the Fiago Turbo Coupe white one mats brother had it was like a boat round the corners but on the straight very quick i remember one night coming home flat out in the Opel Manta GTE and out of nowhere a white started passing me could not believe it he was 5 cat lengths in front of me by end of straight but corner came and nipped past again was a great car though.

What apart from what you quoted have driven you to buy the same brand is it mainly the individual cars or value for money or always had good service from the dealer? thanks Derek


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

SarahAnn said:


> Ive just changed from a 59 Freelander 2 XS to a 2012 Volvo V60 SE Lux.
> 
> The main thing for me was something that was in a low tax band and was cheaper to run than the Freelander as I was sick of filling it up and not getting very far.
> 
> ...


Hi SarahAnn thanks for your input , i think the road tax bands are something more people look at know i have for my new motor , but don't you think after the government see more people move to low emission cars they will just move the bands and we will be back where we started guaranteed. I think lots are down sizing even company bosses to show good example to employee's that are disgruntled as not had a pay rise for last few years


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

1. Price
2 POWWWWWWERRRR (Clarkson style lol)


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

rayner said:


> 1. Price
> 2 POWWWWWWERRRR (Clarkson style lol)


Thanks Rayner so you have a Subaru or Evo?


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Hi Derek,


Derekh929 said:


> What apart from what you quoted have driven you to buy the same brand is it mainly the individual cars or value for money or always had good service from the dealer? thanks Derek


Just more bang for buck really. The R16 was a floating armchair with its all
round torsion bar suspension - at 70mph you could hear the clock ticking and,
no, it wasn't a loud ticker! The remote locking on the R11T, with its proven
turbo track record. I never had a Fuego, but what looker of a car that was! 
The R11T was just as quick and a bit better behaved on corners.

The R4 / R8 / R10/ R16 were a doddle to keep in tune, always returned very
good mpg with enough power at hand. You could push an R4 to challenge a
Mini - not at the start, but it would soon catch up and there was so much
more room in it. In fact, the more you loaded it, the faster it seemed to go!

Reliability has extremely good, with one exception. I had a 2L Laguna II with 
the IDE engine - most frightening car I've ever driven, bar none. I managed to
secure a substantial discount from Renault for the Coupe based on that car's
very scary antics. Apparently it's down to two sensors manufactured by
Siemens, but that does nothing to allay my fears.

So, comfort, performance, reliability and sheer bang for buck have seemed to
always draw me back. For my present wheels, I nearly strayed to a Volvo 
Coupe, but now I'm jolly glad I didn't. Favourites are the present car with the 
R11T coming a very close second. I just loved the quality of the interior finish 
and the Petale seats in that car. Just like the present motor, it's a very 
enjoyable place to be, especially with my Bose sound system bringing the 
place to life...


PugIain said:


> Another fan of French cars, just the wrong ones
> Merry Xmas


Erm...:doublesho










Who could not enjoy caressing these metal curves? I rest my case...

With Season's Greetings,
Steve


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Lowiepete said:


> Hi Derek,
> 
> Just more bang for buck really. The R16 was a floating armchair with its all
> round torsion bar suspension - at 70mph you could hear the clock ticking and,
> ...


Excellent Steve and well put i enjoyed that and i can say you have one very rare nice looking motor as never seen one was this the model that had a very short production run


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Lowiepete said:


> I rest my case...


Hopefully not on the car, it's a bit cold for that!


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Derekh929 said:


> ...you have one very rare nice looking motor as never seen one. Was this the model that had a very short production run


Thanks for the kind words, you can probably tell why I'm pretty enthusiastic!

As far as I know, they are still being manufactured, just not for the UK market. 
I nearly chopped it in for a replacement just before they stopped the imports,
but the deal breaker was that the later cars didn't come with the Bose sound 
system, not even as an option. Otherwise, I'd have bought another in red 
with the same cream leather interior.

I'm intending to keep this one as long as it remains a viable proposition which
hopefully should be a good few years yet. The build quality and approving 
nods at service times indicates this. However, the electronics on that car are 
simply frightening, with everything controlled fly-by-wire. It doesn't take very 
long before the "battery low" indicator comes on, so I've fitted a battery 
conditioner connection point to the rear. That, when its plugged in, always 
throws an "is it electric then?" query from strangers.

So far, the only problem has been the very occasional drop-out of the cruise 
control / speed limiter, but my local guys have it fixed within a few minutes,
twixt rebooting their XP laptop. Unusually, for these times when customer
loyalty rarely counts a jot, being a customer there for nigh on 35 years does 
help a tad... 

With Season's Greetings,
Steve


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Lowiepete said:


> Thanks for the kind words, you can probably tell why I'm pretty enthusiastic!
> 
> As far as I know, they are still being manufactured, just not for the UK market.
> I nearly chopped it in for a replacement just before they stopped the imports,
> ...


All the best to you too Steve, and you make a very good point on electrics i served my time as Auto Electrician and even 26 years ago electric were a problem on many cars routing wires in poor places and fixing wires to poor locations for wear and vibration, they don't care as long as it works till the waranty has finished, also even the main dealers spend ours trying to trace fault to find out a slack or poor earthing wire very costly


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## Dift (May 22, 2011)

I'm having a mid life crisis, the wrong way.

After having nice cars since day one (bar my 750cc Panda  , actually that was great ), I have now decided to partake in a spot of bangernomics.

Had the current 307 hdi snot box for a year, serviced it, bought an indicator bulb, and its just flew through its MOT... All for a smidge over £1000. 

Oh and I've put >20000 miles on it in that year, and seen an average of 53MPG, and practiced all manner of detailing techniques and practices on (no need to get scrap panels from the scrappy). It's actually nice being able to drive into a car park and choose the space nearest the door, rather than the furthest to avoid people parking next to me.

I reckon I could easily make a profit on it if I sold it. I've actually made a small profit on my last three cars, but I'm enjoying driving a care I don't really car too much about. When it dies, I'll get something else.

I know it doesn't help the OP question, but there you go... You youngsters will understand at some point in your life 


(I'm only 31  )


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

Dift said:


> I'm having a mid life crisis, the wrong way.
> 
> After having nice cars since day one (bar my 750cc Panda  , actually that was great ), I have now decided to partake in a spot of bangernomics.
> 
> ...


:lol: mid life crisis age 31 years that made me feel old i have to confess when i first got a house a got a 205 pug it was oh so slow , but did the job till house done up, £1000 for a years motoring you will soon be the star on Super Scrimpers Show well done, and thanks for your input:thumb:


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