# Struggling with Menzerna in this heat...



## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

Spent 26hrs detailing this weekend outside in this weather detailing four customers cars... :doublesho :devil: 

Anyway I am struggling with the Menz... its drying out far to quickly even when using lots of QD to keep the pad damp and because its drying out quickly I am getting LOTS of dust which is doing my nut in... :wall: :wall: 

Any suggestions?

I know it was hot this weekend but Menz state the product is fine to use between 15-25degc!! 

Seriously considering binning Menz simply due to the fact its so temp sensitive.

Cheers

Scott


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## Exclusive Car Care (Jan 14, 2007)

have you tried the xmt range, made to be worked in the heat and sun


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

Are you using the polish on panels exposed to sunlight? i.e. warm


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

Neil_S said:


> Are you using the polish on panels exposed to sunlight? i.e. warm


I am trying not too and keep the car in the shade but its not always possible...


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

Gleamingkleen said:


> have you tried the xmt range, made to be worked in the heat and sun


I have mate and dont like it at all


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## chutney (Feb 21, 2007)

You can mix some ClearKote Red Moose Machine Glaze with the Menzerna. This will give you some more working time.


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## Exclusive Car Care (Jan 14, 2007)

you not having a very good day by the looks of it, this problem plus i see you metabo has packed in:wall: .. hope it gets better for you:thumb:


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

chutney said:


> You can mix some ClearKote Red Moose Machine Glaze with the Menzerna. This will give you some more working time.


Bad idea imaho... as the RMG contains fillers.. I wont use fillers on my customers cars so what they see, is what they get... :thumb:


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

Gleamingkleen said:


> you not having a very good day by the looks of it, this problem plus i see you metabo has packed in:wall: .. hope it gets better for you:thumb:


Tell me about it... ready to start blowing fuses :wall:


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

The RMG with PO91L worked fine for me, not tried this with the ceramiclear range though.

To be honest I think the answer is that you can't work the ceramiclear range well on hot panels. Have you thought about a Gazebo?


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

Neil_S said:


> The RMG with PO91L worked fine for me, not tried this with the ceramiclear range though.
> 
> To be honest I think the answer is that you can't work the ceramiclear range well on hot panels. Have you thought about a Gazebo?


I wont use RMG though mate... I feel I am cheating my customers using it as I pride on the fact the polished look I have created is what you get... not something that is full of fillers 

Looks like a Gazebo will have to be bought... but:

- Polish doesnt work in heat
- Metabo doesnt like heat

Give me strength :wall: :wall:


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

Megs 80 and 83?


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

deej said:


> Megs 80 and 83?


Gone back to that for the time being :thumb:


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## Finerdetails (Apr 30, 2006)

just de-swirled the balck transit connect in direct sun with Pinnacle, no problems here!

Also used 3m finesse polish and poorboys pro polish (trialing some stuff) and no problems with them either.


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## Daffy (Dec 15, 2005)

Try the ceramiclear menz range if you haven't already.
Do you run your Metabo before using it. You need to run it slow and increase the speed up to six quickly and run in for a couple of minutes. This gets the oil to all the places it needs to and stops it over heating. If it does over heat you need to run it at speed 6 to cool it down as it draws more cold air in quicker and cools it. It is not supposed to be used for prolonged periods at very slow speed without this pre-check.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

If I do have problems with the cerami-clear Menzs, and it happens if it gets too hot or too cold, I go back to the trusty #83 and #80 from Meguiars which dont seem to care what the ambient temperature is. I still feel I get marginally better results from the Menzerna when its "on form" so to speak, but the difference is so very marginal but enough to warrant me using it wherever I can... But the Megs is what I turn to if the Menz starts to misbehave. Cant beat #83 and #80 for reliable polishing whatever the conditions IMHO.


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

Its the cerami-clear range I use... no problems at all most of the time just the cold and hot... Megs #83 and #80 it is then... 

The Metabo seems more trouble than its worth to be honest... obviously not up to the job of regular detailing under demanding conditions!


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

I had good results with the Blackfire finishing polish (106FF with more lube) and the BF compound (3.00/1 with more lube) last summer on an M3 on one of the hottest days, working in a sun trap.


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

Engine_Swap said:


> Bad idea imaho... as the RMG contains fillers.. I wont use fillers on my customers cars so what they see, is what they get... :thumb:


Don't be too concerned about fillers as you can do an IPA wipedown. TBH I haven't found a product yet that can fill anything more than the most minor marks!


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## Finerdetails (Apr 30, 2006)

Engine_Swap said:


> The Metabo seems more trouble than its worth to be honest... obviously not up to the job of regular detailing under demanding conditions!


off topic I know, but mine has since far greater use and has been no problem.


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

Finerdetails said:


> off topic I know, but mine has since far greater use and has been no problem.


You never had problems with it cutting out / overheating?


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## Neil_S (Oct 26, 2005)

No problems with my Metabo either, coming up to a year old and not missed a beat. Can't beat that 3 year warranty either


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## CleanYourCar (Jan 23, 2006)

I can't understand why you are having so many problems with the Menz. I've been using this quite a bit of late due to lack of the cerami clear and I found even when worked by rotary, it wasn't drying out to fast and there was very minimal dust  IT just takes a little extra effort to remove swirling on harder paints.

One trick is to mix some PO106FF in with your other polish as that is really well lubed and stops the other polish drying out, worth a try anyway.


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## Refined Reflections (May 12, 2006)

I'm a little confused, last week in the sun I was detailing black cars all week, no shade and not a single problem with the Menz cerami-clears and also not a problem with the Metabo, never had a single cut out, run too hot or even the warning light flickering 

I have however had the makita trip out a couple of times, and thats why it went into the ebay bin.

I'd agree with the others if you are having probs switching to the #80 and #83 should be of help, at least for the polish side of things.


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

It sounds as though my Metabo is definately faulty then... Metabo are ringing me tommorrow morning thanks to Clean & Shiny 

I will try the Menz again once the rotary is fixed... 

I landed up finishing off detailing the Jags I did this weekend with the PC and Menz IP / FF combo and didnt have any problems there...


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## Mucky (May 25, 2006)

i have found the optimum range are great in the sun,says on the bottle can be used in the sun and it works,must be some extra lube in there or something ,i save it for the hot jobs as it doesnt like the cold


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## deej (Jun 18, 2006)

mucky_marques said:


> i have found the optimum range are great in the sun,says on the bottle can be used in the sun and it works,must be some extra lube in there or something ,i save it for the hot jobs as it doesnt like the cold


Mine worked great it direct sunlight today, admittedly only the wing mirror to correct some minor scuffs though.


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

I am going to try reducing the surface area that I am working in direct sunlight as since the rotary I am polishing a 2ft square section rather than 1ft square was doing with the PC and hence wondering if the polish is drying out due to the heat before I have a chance to go back over the whole area...

I will try it this weekend - got a lovely Audi A3 booked in for wet sanding and full deswirl


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## Alex L (Oct 25, 2005)

You also have to take into consideration that most/all polishes/compounds are designed to be used in a bodyshop environment


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## benji330i (Jan 8, 2007)

Maybe this is why I hardly touched the swirls on a bimmer the other day. IP seemed to dry out real quick and dust. FF was fine. Might try mixing to two as per Tims advice.....


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## MacAddict (Mar 30, 2007)

I was using SSR 2.5 on my first time with the pc last weekend and I thought it was drying out a bit quick, compared to the videos I have seen. No way was I getting4 or 5 minutes of work, it also dusted a lot. I just took delivery of Power gloss and will be trying it out on BMW paint.


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Engine_Swap said:


> Its the cerami-clear range I use... no problems at all most of the time just the cold and hot... Megs #83 and #80 it is then...
> 
> The Metabo seems more trouble than its worth to be honest... obviously not up to the job of regular detailing under demanding conditions!


I feel for you mate, it can be a right pig when things don't work to plan.

The Metabo - I've been using mine for nearly two years now, and apart from a couple of times on 'sticky' cars using loads of pressure and too slow a speed (plus my big mitt's covering the air scoops) I've never had a problem. I bought a new Metabo from Johnny a couple of weeks ago to polish Epoch's BMW, and can't tell the difference between the old Met and the new one. I hope you get yours sorted soon, does sound more like a faulty machine than a design fault though.

The Menz - Sorry to tell you this mate, but in my opinion, it's your actions that are causing the problem. Your washing away all of the lubrication that's in the polish by over spritzing with QD. I know, I've made this mistake myself on occasion.

The lubricating oils etc in the Menz Ceramiclear polishes must be water soluble. By over spritzing this polish with QD all of the time, you are thinning it down too much, and causing it to fail / dust prematurely.

What would I do if the temps got a bit hot? I'd use a little more polish. Use two blobs instead of one, and f all spritzing with QD. Watch your pressure applied to the machine, watch the speed that you spin the machine up to. If your really struggling with 3.02, swap over to 3.01 (more lube). If your still struggling, add a dab of 106ff purely for the lubrication.

I find that Megs cooks earlier at high heat, than any of the Menzerna polishes. Megs is my cold weather kit, the Menz being designed to be used at high heat. I don't think Menz designed it to be water down with QD though.

It's hard at times to get to grips with the fact that menz have 2 completely different product lines in the Ceramiclear and the Pro range. The Power Gloss, IP PO91L and the Final Finish PO85U all benefitting from a bit of a spritz with QD to keep alive. Spritz the ceramiclear polishes though, and you tend to kill the lubrication quicker than anything. I can burn the paint with 'pure' 106FF long before I can dry out the lubricants in it. It just requires a bit more practice in my opinion.

That's what I'd do:thumb:


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## Mr OCD (Apr 18, 2006)

Steve that really helps mate... I am guilty of using alot of QD with most polishes and it seems to work as my results show that but never realised that the ceramiclear's dont like it... and never even thought that the QD could be the issue... 

I guess its easy to make errors when your happy with a 'set' way of doing things... 

I'll give it a try... got an Audi lined up for Monday so will be the ideal candidate...

Metabo is on its way to Metabo to be checked, fixed and sent back to me... so it should be back in my hands soon 

Thanks Steve 

Scott.


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

No probs Scott mate:wave: 

Hope it works for you mate:thumb:


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## Clark @ PB (Mar 1, 2006)

Steve to the rescue again!

Was gonna say that i've only ever experienced problems with the Menz when its cold - As i'm lead to believe the likes of 3.02 for example is made for working on the production lines when the body panels are still roasting hot :thumb:


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## Exclusive Car Care (Jan 14, 2007)

L200 Steve said:


> I feel for you mate, it can be a right pig when things don't work to plan.
> 
> The Metabo - I've been using mine for nearly two years now, and apart from a couple of times on 'sticky' cars using loads of pressure and too slow a speed (plus my big mitt's covering the air scoops) I've never had a problem. I bought a new Metabo from Johnny a couple of weeks ago to polish Epoch's BMW, and can't tell the difference between the old Met and the new one. I hope you get yours sorted soon, does sound more like a faulty machine than a design fault though.
> 
> ...


nice bit of info there steve:thumb: :thumb: , will have to remember this myself


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## s-line (May 14, 2006)

nice one for that info, explains why mine was dusting up...too much QD. Btw you say that the lubricating oils etc in the Menz Ceramiclear polishes must be water soluble, does that mean it may be a better idea to just use water instead of QD for a quick spritz of the pad?


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## Forbez (Feb 8, 2006)

No, soluble means that using it will break down the polish, opposite of what you want to happen.


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