# Disaster with wheel cleaner



## Alfa2Evora (Aug 14, 2013)

I've had to use my 'weekend toy' as a daily driver for the past couple of weeks, so the wheels had become a bit dirtier than I normally allow them to become - they did get a quick wash every few days but nothing intensive. 

Yesterday, with a car show to attend, I got up at the crack of dawn to expend a few hours of serious elbow grease on her. First thing to tackle was of course the build-up of brake dust on my usually super-shiny black wheels. Normally I use Dragon's Breath for this but I'd run out and so cracked open the bottle of Autobrite Purple Rain 2.0 I'd bought a few months back after some glowing recommendations. 

Sprayed it on as directed and gave it some agitation with a wheel brush and it started doing 'its thing'. After a minute or so, with a nice dark red colour visible, I rinsed it off then shampooed and rinsed again, just as I've always done. 

Everything looked fine when the wheels were still wet but as soon as I dried them off - DISASTER! I can only assume that it was an adverse reaction between the Purple Rain and the wax coating on the wheels but all 4 of them were covered in horrible matt-white streaks and blotches.

I've since spent several hours going over and over the wheels with a cutting polish and although not yet anything like perfect, they are certainly looking a bit better. 

Anybody got any thoughts on this - it's never happened to me before and I'd much prefer it not to happen again.

I've posted a couple of pics below - one of a wheel in all its glory (taken about a month ago when I'd just refurbed the brake calipers) and one after yesterday's 'cleaning' session.


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

Are you aware that purple rain isn't a wheel cleaner?!?

Sent from my FRD-L09 using Tapatalk


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## TonyHill (Jul 28, 2015)

Sicskate said:


> Are you aware that purple rain isn't a wheel cleaner?!?
> 
> Sent from my FRD-L09 using Tapatalk


????are you sure? Their website states that its 'specifically created for cleaning wheels and paintwork'?
Either way..... Its made a right mess of the wheels! Good luck in getting them back to shiney black :thumb:


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## Sicskate (Oct 3, 2012)

I haven't used it before, but I always thought with a name like "purple rain" that it would be an iron remover.

Just had a look online and it reacts just like an iron remover too?!?


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## Leebo310 (Sep 30, 2013)

Sicskate said:


> Are you aware that purple rain isn't a wheel cleaner?!?
> 
> Sent from my FRD-L09 using Tapatalk


No offense but not really the most helpful post is it?! It's not a dedicated wheel cleaner no, but it's a fallout remover that primarily is used for wheels. It's listed under "Wheel Cleaners" on the Autobrite website and even the description says - "Created specifically for cleaning wheels and paintwork" I don't think you can imply the OP has done something wrong by using it on wheels...

To the OP, I would suggest contacting AB direct as something looks wrong there. I've used Purple Rain quite a few times and never had a reaction like that. My main gripe with it is that it didn't actually seem to remove much contaminates (prefer Iron X or CSP Iron myself) but I've never seen it leave anything like that behind.


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## MrRJ (Jul 15, 2017)

Sicskate said:


> Are you aware that purple rain isn't a wheel cleaner?!?
> 
> Sent from my FRD-L09 using Tapatalk


Their website clearly mentions that it is for wheels. "Created specifically for cleaning wheels and paintwork, it is also safe for use on other exterior surfaces where iron contaminants are difficult to remove."

Have you gotten in touch with Autobrite?

Sorry to see this mate... 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gibbo555 (May 3, 2011)

That looks pretty horrid mate, have the wheels been refurbished recently?

How long did you leave it to dwell for?


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## steelghost (Aug 20, 2015)

What wax did you have on the wheels? It seems unlikely that the Purple Rain will have harmed the paint or powder coat, my guess is it's done something to the wax. If you have some panel wipe or tar remover, or even lighter fuel or brake cleaner, you could try some on an old MF towel. If it is the wax it ought to come off pretty easily...


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## chongo (Jun 7, 2014)

As above use some IPA or a tar remover like AS tardis first. What wheel wax have you used or is it just a normal car wax you put on the wheels.


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## BaileyA3 (Jun 14, 2015)

We're the wheels cool when you used it?


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## joeninety (Feb 9, 2017)

I use purple rain on gloss black alloys every 6-8 weeks or so and never had that reaction after washing and adding wax afterwards,as said above contact AB and ask,something definately not right.


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## wax-planet (Sep 30, 2010)

Did you do this in direct sunlight and leave it ?
it looks like its baked on with a bit of heat


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## robwils (Nov 17, 2013)

I had a similar looking problem - but not caused by same products, see thread...
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=387251

Removed it by polishing with a rotary.

Hope this helps.


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## DLGWRX02 (Apr 6, 2010)

BaileyA3 said:


> We're the wheels cool when you used it?





wax-planet said:


> Did you do this in direct sunlight and leave it ?
> it looks like its baked on with a bit of heat


Both of these caught my attention as having gloss black wheels and have also suffered from baked on fall out remover, they ended up looking exactly like the second picture posted.


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## Nick-ST (Mar 4, 2013)

Wow that is pretty bad! Hope you get it sorted quickly


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## beatty599 (Sep 18, 2016)

It looks like it really attacked the wheel bolts and the valve stem as well, in the good photo it shows them nice shiny black and the stem shiny, then in the after rusty and dull.

Somethings not right there at all, did you buy it directly from autobrite?


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## Alfa2Evora (Aug 14, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies folks - sorry for the delay in getting back to you but I was working a backshift yesterday.

As a general answer to all the points/queries raised, it was about 5am (any neighbours who might have seen me are no doubt now convinced of my mental instability) when I started on the wheels. The air temperature was below 10 degrees C and there was light drizzle - so a typical Scottish summer in other words - and the car had sat out all night. I gave the wheels a rinse with a hose and high-pressure jet nozzle (we've got great water pressure here and I didn't really want to fire-up the Karcher at that time of the morning) to dislodge what I could of the accumulated 'crap', then sprayed on the Purple Rain. 

I only did 1 wheel at a time, so by the time I'd sprayed it on then given it a quick agitation with the wheel brushes the PR would have been on about 90 seconds at most before I rinsed it off and moved on to the next wheel. After 'cleaning' all 4 wheels, I then started back with wheel #1 and went over them with a lambswool wheel mitt and mild car shampoo solution (Bilt Hamber Auto Wash in case you're interested) before again 'jet' rinsing them.

It was only when I then patted them dry with a microfiber towel that the transformation from shiny black to matt white became apparent - so long as they were wet, they looked OK. 

The wheels were powder-coated in March 2015, and every 4-5 months or so since then they've been treated with Swissvax Cleaner Fluid Pre-Wax Oil followed by Swissvax Autobahn Wax, the last time being when I repainted the brake calipers about a month ago.

Between my thread-starter post and leaving for work yesterday, I spent about another hour polishing and I've got 1 wheel almost back to normal, including restoring the wheel bolts and valve stem back to 'as new' condition. So only another 3 to go if my polishing arm doesn't fall off in the meantime.

I've never had any problems when using the Dragon's Breath (or the one time a friend gave me some Bilberry cleaner to try) I usually use so I'll definitely now be running this past Autobrite to see what they think. 

Watch this space for developments.


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

One question - if you have wheel wax on, why are you using such aggressive products? Surely the point of a wax is that it only needs washing with soapy water and then hit with a fallout remover periodically.


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## Soapybubbles (Feb 10, 2014)

roscopervis said:


> One question - if you have wheel wax on, why are you using such aggressive products? Surely the point of a wax is that it only needs washing with soapy water and then hit with a fallout remover periodically.


I was going to ask this as well

That said it shouldn't really matter I guess, it does sound like it has reacted with the wax though.


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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

Alfa2Evora said:


> Watch this space for developments.


It sounds like you've done everything right, but the product has reacted either with the wax, or eaten through that and reacted with the cleanser fluid (which is basically a cleaner+glaze in one).

Let us know if Autobrite come back to you - I would be (pleasantly) surprised if they did with any advise or knowledge. You may get the 'never happened before mate'.

Can't offer any advise really other than a bit of solidarity - yes this shouldn't have happened and couldn't be forseen, but also at least the damage can be polished out. I've only ever seen that happen with strong acid/alkali being left to dry in the sun (which you didn't do).

I wouldn't use that bottle again, perhaps it's the wrong strength, or labelled incorrectly.

Did it do anything (dull) the brake disc or caliper (where there wouldn't have been any wax)?

If you want to do a polish, you can get some foam polishing cones or balls from here to use on a drill:

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=1429

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=1812


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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

roscopervis said:


> One question - if you have wheel wax on, why are you using such aggressive products? Surely the point of a wax is that it only needs washing with soapy water and then hit with a fallout remover periodically.


It's not supposed to be an aggressive product - it's for paint, glass and wheels.

Periodic decontamination = that's exactly what he did - waxed his wheels, and he wanted to do a decon wash after a month.


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

Alfa2Evora said:


> Thanks for all the replies folks - sorry for the delay in getting back to you but I was working a backshift yesterday.
> 
> As a general answer to all the points/queries raised, it was about 5am (any neighbours who might have seen me are no doubt now convinced of my mental instability) when I started on the wheels. The air temperature was below 10 degrees C and there was light drizzle - so a typical Scottish summer in other words - and the car had sat out all night. I gave the wheels a rinse with a hose and high-pressure jet nozzle (we've got great water pressure here and I didn't really want to fire-up the Karcher at that time of the morning) to dislodge what I could of the accumulated 'crap', then sprayed on the Purple Rain.
> 
> ...


I can't really add much more to whats already been said and the fact one wheel is almost back to normal is a positive sign, I believe it looks like a chemical reaction of some sort, would it help you if you spoke to a wheel refurbish guy?


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## 350Chris (May 12, 2016)

Recognise that this has run it's course now - and it is after the event, but if the product had sat for a couple of months since purchase, it could have separated on the shelf.

The absence of a good shake before using it could contribute to an imbalance of chemicals in the bottle transferring to the wheels...clutching at straws - and it doesn't solve the mystery but could have contributed.

If you have the receipt, I would back it to the supplier!


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## Alfa2Evora (Aug 14, 2013)

roscopervis said:


> One question - if you have wheel wax on, why are you using such aggressive products? Surely the point of a wax is that it only needs washing with soapy water and then hit with a fallout remover periodically.


Nearly 2000 miles of hard driving in the 2 weeks since they were last washed had left a fair amount of brake dust which didn't dislodge with the initial wash, so it was technically a 'periodic hit with fallout remover'.



tosh said:


> ...........Let us know if Autobrite come back to you - I would be (pleasantly) surprised if they did with any advise or knowledge...........
> 
> .........Did it do anything (dull) the brake disc or caliper (where there wouldn't have been any wax)?.........


No response from Autobrite - in fact, my post on their Facebook 'Discussion Group' page has been removed so not expecting any advice from there anytime soon.

There was no effect to the disc bell or the caliper which was what made me think that it must be some sort of interaction with the wax, which seems to be the sentiment being echoed by the responses here. Thanks for the links to the polishing balls and cones - ordered some now.


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## Puntoboy (Jun 30, 2007)

I can’t see how you’ve done anything wrong from your description. Something in the product appeared to have reacted with something on your wheels. AB should be investigating the cause of this but I wouldn’t hold my breath. 


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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

Alfa2Evora said:


> Nearly 2000 miles of hard driving in the 2 weeks since they were last washed had left a fair amount of brake dust which didn't dislodge with the initial wash, so it was technically a 'periodic hit with fallout remover'.
> 
> No response from Autobrite - in fact, my post on their Facebook 'Discussion Group' page has been removed so not expecting any advice from there anytime soon.
> 
> There was no effect to the disc bell or the caliper which was what made me think that it must be some sort of interaction with the wax, which seems to be the sentiment being echoed by the responses here. Thanks for the links to the polishing balls and cones - ordered some now.


Nice to see nothing has changed at AB in the past 10 years...

Yes, if nothing on the disc, must be a wax thing; never seen that before, then again I don't wax wheels; just coatings or recently some Hydro2Lite or Washcoat

Those polishing cones make life so much easier and you get a better result as well!

If you use them on exhausts, they'll turn black and you'll never get them clean again. 
(Schoolboy error)

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## phil67 (Mar 17, 2008)

I had that issue on a bmw, the only thing I believe that caused it that it dried out , I never did get the spots off the door trims


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## Dinnie (Oct 4, 2012)

Did you buy the Autobrite from an authorised dealer and not somewhere like ebay where fakes could be sold or sometimes with AutoSmart, decanted into smaller bottles (and diluted etc)?


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

TonyHill said:


> ????are you sure? Their website states that its 'specifically created for cleaning wheels and paintwork'?
> Either way..... Its made a right mess of the wheels! Good luck in getting them back to shiney black :thumb:


These kind of products are designed to remove iron fallout - after the wheels have been cleaned with an actual wheel cleaner. People are amazed by the reaction of it being sprayed onto a bone dry wheel, again not what its designed for and certainly not an economical way if using it imo. Personally, ive not used that particular fallout remover ir wheel cleaner as they call it but ive read my fair share of bad reviews on it...t
Its also worth bearing in mibd that these products turn acidic during reaction, no matter if they are marketed as 'ph neutrel'


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

Also, keep on at autobrite, post a negative review etc and screen grab them before they can delete them. Poor product is one thing, rubbish service is not on


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## Ronnie (Nov 15, 2006)

It should not have any adverse reaction with wax. Also where the wheels hot or cold when it was applied. Also did it dry onto the wheels another thing was it a professional wheel refurb company or an industrial powder coaters as they use different paints. To be fair no company will offer compensation to adverse effects on repainted panels or wheels as there are too many variables would love to see what can be done for nothig more than my own curisoity as it should not have done it


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## Kash-Jnr (Mar 24, 2013)

The way its dried/etched on. To me it definitely looks like you sprayed it on and left it there too long (maybe) as the pattern of the etching is in vertical lines, I had this issue once with some Grime out on paintwork when I left it too long on as the jet wash was playing up (was a loose plug..lol) .. could be something wrong with AB product (wouldn't use them myself - as there customer service is ridiculous) but its the question of how can you prove it.


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## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I can't see it has attacked the paint or metal. It seems to have had half a go at the wax coating. Some of it has become soluble and begun to carry off, they have dried and this is the result. I suspect had it been warmer the wax might have disappeared completely perhaps?

Start with APC and then use tar and wax remover and I bet it will be gone then.

I use FK on the wifes wheels and only have to use toned down greenstar to get them right, I would not put BH wheel cleaner on them after only a month.

I don't think the problem is with the product, rather what it has decided to attack.


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## TOGWT (Oct 26, 2005)

Acidic / Alkali Wheel Surface Damage
These chemical stains are frequently milky, black, or greenish in appearance. They result from using acid or high alkali content cleaning solutions.
This type of surface damage usually entails refinishing. However, the following product and procedure has been found in some cases, to improve the appearance of acid / alkali stained wheel surfaces; be cognizant that in some instances you may only achieve a < 50% improvement and in some more. For wheels that have milky or hazy staining caused by these types of chemicals try the following: Use caution with chrome wheel finishes as the plating is very thin and using harsh abrasives could remove it.
This procedure will improve the appearance of the wheels and may, with repeated applications, restore the finish dramatically. For wheels that exhibit spotting from road chemicals the above procedure may marginally improve the condition but will not restore the finish or remove the pitting. In this type of staining the wheel finish has actually been removed in spots and no manner of cleaning will restore the finish.
The following product and procedure has been found in some cases, to improve the appearance of acid / alkali stained wheel surfaces. For wheels that have milky or hazy staining caused by these types of chemicals try the following:
1.Wash the wheels (See Note 1) thoroughly using clean water and soap or detergent and then flood rinse the wheel surface with clean flowing water. 
2.Rinse the surfaces with a medium strength alkaline solution
3.Dry the wheels completely.
4.Apply Menzerna SF 4500 polish with a black LC foam pad
5. If the finishing polish doesn’t’ remove the spots, try 3M Chrome and Metal Polish #39527 (See Note 2) with a clean terry cloth towel. As you apply the polish, the staining may diminish. 
6.When dry, buff off the polish with a clean portion of the towel. 
7.Repeat application of the finishing polish until satisfied with the results. If continued applications fail to improve the appearance further discontinue use (See Note 3).
This procedure will improve the appearance of the wheels and may, with repeated applications, restore the finish dramatically. For wheels that exhibit spotting from road chemicals the above procedure may marginally improve the condition but will not restore the finish or remove the pitting. In this type of staining the wheel finish has actually been removed in spots and no manner of cleaning will restore the finish.
Notes
1.DO NOT attempt to clean hot wheel surfaces; allow cooling down time, otherwise you may cause structural damage to the wheels and cause the rotors and/or callipers to warp, making them inoperative

2.THE 3M polish required for this procedure contains an extremely aggressive cleaner. The wheel surfaces must be clean prior to application to avoid scratches. This cleaner will reduce the coating thickness and if used incorrectly may remove the surface finish entirely.

3.Begin with a small section of the wheel and with light pressure buff off polish and examine results. ONLY apply with sufficient pressure and time to remove enough staining that you are satisfied with the results. Some wheels may be stained to the extent that you may only achieve a < 50% improvement while others may be able to be restored to the original lustre. In all instances; only apply until the results are satisfactory.

Information Source - GM Customer Service


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

Id personally not attempt polishing, chances are it would end up worse


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## Alfa2Evora (Aug 14, 2013)

Dinnie said:


> Did you buy the Autobrite from an authorised dealer and not somewhere like ebay where fakes could be sold or sometimes with AutoSmart, decanted into smaller bottles (and diluted etc)?


Bought from the Autobrite Direct website.



Ronnie said:


> It should not have any adverse reaction with wax. Also where the wheels hot or cold when it was applied. Also did it dry onto the wheels another thing was it a professional wheel refurb company or an industrial powder coaters as they use different paints. To be fair no company will offer compensation to adverse effects on repainted panels or wheels as there are too many variables would love to see what can be done for nothig more than my own curisoity as it should not have done it


Wheels were cold - car had sat outside all night and the ambient air temperature at the time of cleaning was about 8 degrees C. Wheels were rinsed prior to applying the Purple Rain, and were rinsed again about 90 seconds after application so it had no chance to dry on. Wheels were powder-coated by The Wheel Specialist and I've had no issues with the ones they refurbed for my wife's car, but then those wheels have never been (and now never will be) 'treated' with Purple Rain.



Kash-Jnr said:


> The way its dried/etched on. To me it definitely looks like you sprayed it on and left it there too long (maybe) as the pattern of the etching is in vertical lines, I had this issue once with some Grime out on paintwork when I left it too long on as the jet wash was playing up (was a loose plug..lol) .. could be something wrong with AB product (wouldn't use them myself - as there customer service is ridiculous) but its the question of how can you prove it.


The directions for use from Autobrite say to leave it for 1-4 minutes to react and to agitate if necessary after 5 minutes to help remove stubborn deposits; I left it on for just over 1 so I don't think the timing was the problem. It does seem that as the newly-sprayed PR ran down the wheels (before I had a chance to grab the brush and agitate/spread it around, it has 'dissolved' the wax and taken it with it, leaving behind just the PTFE content of the wax, hence the vertical lines.

The wheels are almost back to normal now, but it's taken a lot of elbow-grease to get there. One things for sure, what's left of the Purple Rain is going in the bin and I'll be using only Dragon's Breath or Bilberry to get rid of any brake fallout from now on.


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## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

I've had similar on black powder coated and black painted wheels before. Usually if a product has dried out too quickly or slightly warm (causing to dry out). Usually a very mild polish removes it.


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

Ben Gum said:


> Sorry but that is wrong. If you wish, I can make a video to demonstrate how a massive amount of rust added to a fallout remover makes no change to the pH, measured by a high quality meter.
> 
> This is one of these 'fairy dissolves paint' type myths that someone made up, perhaps wrongly interpreting the chemistry. Ive seen it repeated lots of times. Ive never seen anyone demonstrate it.


More than welcome to do so..


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

If you could, would be interesting for everyone im sure


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