# Dislike diesel



## Toma (Sep 16, 2013)

The story is i had a mk3 golf 1.4 for 6 years and then was finally lucky enough to purchase an audi a4 sline 2.0tdi (120). I bought this cos i thought i would be saving money as its diesel. Now i cant wait to get rid of the engine i love the car but hate the engine. No power whatsoever and i still pay as much for diesel as i did for petrol in the long run. It doesn't matter the length of journey a 600 mile tank is still a 600 mile tank whatever happens. I did average 50mpg at first but when I changed to pilot sport 3 now I'm lucky to get 45mpg. Ive had this discussion with many people and stand so strongly with petrol as they tell me just to buy a bigger diesel. Doesn't that destroy the idea of a diesel?


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## Mattwilko92 (Aug 4, 2008)

5mpg seems a lot to drop just putting it down to tyres. You checked tyre pressures? DPF filter healthy? Mainly town or motorway driving? Water thermostat getting up to temp ok?


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## Ducky (Mar 19, 2007)

Perhaps a remap might improve things (power and mpg).


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## Toma (Sep 16, 2013)

Pressures are regularly checked i went from bald( all different makes from audi dealer) to grippy brand new. It gets up to temp everyday. Motorway on 2 days a week for a good stretch when i visit friends and family


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## R14CKE (Aug 10, 2012)

Ducky said:


> Perhaps a remap might improve things (power and mpg).


I would give this ago I was averaging max 48mpg at best standard had a remap and I'm getting high 50s it's paid for its sell 10 fold now get 100+ miles extra out of a tank


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## Toma (Sep 16, 2013)

Ducky said:


> Perhaps a remap might improve things (power and mpg).


I dont want to remap it not worth it ive checked its only a 120 bhp


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

For most people, buying a diesel to save money is false economy.

Used correctly, long motorway runs, they fit their purpose. 

Doing average miles as an average driver, I'd only ever consider petrol.


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

Toma said:


> I dont want to remap it not worth it ive checked its only a 120 bhp


By the sounds of It you want a Ferrari :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Toma (Sep 16, 2013)

Kerr said:


> For most people, buying a diesel to save money is false economy.
> 
> Used correctly, long motorway runs, they fit their purpose.
> 
> Doing average miles as an average driver, I'd only ever consider petrol.


Yeah i completely agree but i think you have to do so many motorway miles for any difference. The only difference i had was going to wales on a five hour journey but still got 55mpg rubbish


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## Toma (Sep 16, 2013)

suspal said:


> By the sounds of It you want a Ferrari :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


I want an s5 :devil:


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Toma said:


> I dont want to remap it not worth it ive checked its only a 120 bhp


Why is it not worth it?

Not saying you should or shouldn't do it, just a genuine question.


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## Richf (Apr 26, 2008)

Diesels often use more fuel when its colder they take longer to warm up than petrols


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## Toma (Sep 16, 2013)

m1pui said:


> Why is it not worth it?
> 
> Not saying you should or shouldn't do it, just a genuine question.


It only puts it too 140 bhp just a standard 2.0 tdi then waste of time


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

Toma said:


> It only puts it too 140 bhp just a standard 2.0 tdi then waste of time


But what about the added benefit of extra MPG?


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## Davemm (Mar 9, 2009)

Its not just power, its how it comes on the power and when the torque is produced and held to.


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## Toma (Sep 16, 2013)

A few months ago i took my car in for a service and for a courtesy car i was given an a5 2.0 tsfi and i just loved how it felt sounded. Got back in mine and sounded like a tractor


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## Toma (Sep 16, 2013)

B17BLG said:


> But what about the added benefit of extra MPG?


I thoght i wanted the mpg to start with but then i felt it doesnt actually save that much petrol engines are coming along way with mpg


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Did you get a particularly good deal for the 120bhp over the 140bhp versions?

As many will say though, it's torque figure that is more important than bhp.


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## Toma (Sep 16, 2013)

m1pui said:


> Did you get a particularly good deal for the 120bhp over the 140bhp versions?
> 
> As many will say though, it's torque figure that is more important than bhp.


Not alot of torque out of a 120 lol 
It was the only sline out of the bunch so the look was awesome. Like ive said love the car look colour body styling everything just hate the fact its engine is ****


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

Another diesel hater here :wave: 

I can't see the point of remaps either. Got to go through a hell of a lot of miles before you get your money back. I know someone who had a remap done for £500. He gets about 5 mpg more now...... He didn't answer the question of how many gallons of fuel he has to go through to get that £500 back before he starts making a saving lol.

It's also soooooo stinky, greasy and dirty I hate filling up the van.

Stick to proper fuel, diesel is for vans and trucks


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## Toma (Sep 16, 2013)

rayner said:


> Another diesel hater here :wave:
> 
> I can't see the point of remaps either. Got to go through a hell of a lot of miles before you get your money back. I know someone who had a remap done for £500. He gets about 5 mpg more now...... He didn't answer the question of how many gallons of fuel he has to go through to get that £500 back before he starts making a saving lol.
> 
> ...


Ive read about remaps and they don't sound all that great. Just tune a car that is worth tuning or in my case buy a quicker car to not remap


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## MonkeyP (Jul 7, 2012)

Is you audi a 6speed manual?

normally the 140ps is the better engine as people have said it has more torque therefore you dont have to hold onto the gear for as long.

Im shocked at the mpg your getting on the motorway. i used to have an a8 4.2tdi and on the motorway i was getting 40+mpg and that was when i wasn't even trying.

Which a4 do you have?


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Toma said:


> Yeah i completely agree but i think you have to do so many motorway miles for any difference. The only difference i had was going to wales on a five hour journey but still got 55mpg rubbish


"only" get 55mpg? think yourself lucky, i have a 2.0 TD Chevvy 150BHP and i think 231nm of torque, and on a motorway run only get around 45!

would think seriously of a remap *IF* i knew what i'd get out of it


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## muzzer (Feb 13, 2011)

Kerr said:


> For most people, buying a diesel to save money is false economy.
> 
> Used correctly, long motorway runs, they fit their purpose.
> 
> Doing average miles as an average driver, I'd only ever consider petrol.


Yeah that's about right, i bought a dieseasel because i am currently doing 16k a year just to and from work, i have a job interview tomorrow that could drop that to 4k a year, thereby making the dieseasal a waste of time.


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## Toma (Sep 16, 2013)

MonkeyP said:


> Is you audi a 6speed manual?
> 
> normally the 140ps is the better engine as people have said it has more torque therefore you dont have to hold onto the gear for as long.
> 
> ...


2008 audi a4 sline 6 speed manual


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## winrya (Aug 4, 2006)

I used to be a diesel hater but I'd never consider anything else now. Effortless, lots of torque and no need to rev the nuts off to get going, more economical, easier to sell, cheaper to tax and insure.

There are times when I miss the exhaust note at the red line but overall diesels and their delivery work so much better for me.


We went from a 2005 cooper s to a 2012 sd last year. £65 tank in 2005 s did £280 miles, £50 full tank in sd does 450 miles. Basically double the mpg and tax went from £300 to £30 a year. In most conditions it feels quicker too.

I got rid of my gti in the summer and swapped it for a 2011 a3 170tdi black edition. £67 of diesel, 550-600 miles. GTI did 300 miles to the same amount of fuel and tax has gone from £260 a year to £105.

Yes diesels are more expensive to buy but then they are easier to sell and hold their value better. I'd go as far to say the audi feels as quick as the gti and you'd be hard pressed to tell the CR diesel was a diesel once up and running.

Just have to read the whats your mpg thread to see how even these green petrol cars are barely doing more than 30mpg when they should be closer to 50.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

winrya said:


> I used to be a diesel hater but I'd never consider anything else now. Effortless, lots of torque and no need to rev the nuts off to get going, more economical, easier to sell, cheaper to tax and insure.
> 
> There are times when I miss the exhaust note at the red line but overall diesels and their delivery work so much better for me.
> 
> ...


It may feel as fast due to the torque, but if you are talking about a 200bhp Golf GTi, it will make easy work of a 170bhp A3. The torque makes you feel as if you are going quicker than you really are.

I don't agree with effortless either. All the <2.0l diesel engines I have driven suffer with the same narrow power bands. Once cruising they are fine, stopping, starting and moving in traffic soon becomes far from effortless with the amount of gear changes required.


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## DIESEL DAVE (Jul 26, 2007)

Simplicity is what drew me to diesels, pity they`re not now


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

It may feel as fast due to the torque, but if you are talking about a 200bhp Golf GTi, it will make easy work of a 170bhp A3. The torque makes you feel as if you are going quicker than you really are. (Quoted By Kerr)

That second bit may not be 100% in my eyes, having had many diesel and petrol cars in the garage and driven for a number of years as a petrol head yes the cooper s was fun, but had e46, e90, f31 300d engines and all from the important 30-50 50-70 will scare some very good performance machinery Petrol that is, is it as enjoyable, ues in some respects coming off a slip road getting up to speed or blipping throttle on motor way, etc, but noise even on 6 cylinder disappoints , but when you head for the pumps its smiles all round


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## Alex_225 (Feb 7, 2008)

I think the trouble is people buy a diesel expecting it to be miraculously good on fuel. Ok compared to a 2.0 petrol engine a 2.0tdi will show great returns but a smaller petrol engine driven carefully *can* return similar miles per gallon.

I mean, take my Clio 172. Round town it varies between 24-32mpg but on a decent run and a steady right foot I can see a return of 45mpg.

I think people expect 60mpg+ returned from a big diesel on a run when realistically you're it seems you're likely to see that from something like the small diesel like the 1.5dci in the Renault range.

All I can say from my experience is that performance vs mpg the bigger diesel engines are good as you don't get that torquey feel from a petrol engine without it returning 20(something) mpg! Also having driven a friends re-mapped 1.9tdi Seat Ibiza, they can be very quick cars.


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## winrya (Aug 4, 2006)

Kerr said:


> It may feel as fast due to the torque, but if you are talking about a 200bhp Golf GTi, it will make easy work of a 170bhp A3. The torque makes you feel as if you are going quicker than you really are.
> 
> I don't agree with effortless either. All the <2.0l diesel engines I have driven suffer with the same narrow power bands. Once cruising they are fine, stopping, starting and moving in traffic soon becomes far from effortless with the amount of gear changes required.


My golf remapped to 250bhp (which i owned for 7 years) with loads of torque was in another league, standard there is very little in it. Half a second to 60, 5mph top end. Golf was flat as a pancake standard I'm afraid. Rev it to the red line and it shifted, stay below 4-5k and the audi would wipe the floor of it. The new cr audi/vw engines are lovely, rev to the red line with no lack of power anywhere. The old 170pd engine in the pre 2008 audi a3 was as you describe, but the new ones are very different. The 2litre bmw engine in the mini while not quite as refined, has instant power any gear at any speed, you cannot inflict any lag.


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## b8-sline (Dec 24, 2013)

My last car was a 54 plate seat leon fr 150tdi and it went like f**k and great on fuel . Around town and B roads it would do 50+mpg easy but on motorways around 48/50.
Now I have an A4 Avant 143 s line but I have had it re-mapped to around 173bhp, there is a definite improvement in power to a standard 143 I test drove so think a 120 would be a bit under powered.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

winrya said:


> My golf remapped to 250bhp (which i owned for 7 years) with loads of torque was in another league, standard there is very little in it. Half a second to 60, 5mph top end. Golf was flat as a pancake standard I'm afraid. Rev it to the red line and it shifted, stay below 4-5k and the audi would wipe the floor of it. The new cr audi/vw engines are lovely, rev to the red line with no lack of power anywhere. The old 170pd engine in the pre 2008 audi a3 was as you describe, but the new ones are very different. The 2litre bmw engine in the mini while not quite as refined, has instant power any gear at any speed, you cannot inflict any lag.


The Golf GTi is 0-60mph in 6.6secs and 146mph top speed. The Audi is 7.7secs and 139mph. That is a sizeable gap and I'm sure there will be 3-4secs between 0-100mph.

You will have some in gear times that will be better, but overall the Golf will be faster with ease.

The newer Audi and BMW 2.0 engines were included in my statement.

I guess they will improve with more companies heading down the sequential turbo route.


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## Turkleton (Apr 18, 2010)

120ps in a car as big as an A4 isn't helping massively


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

I've had all the diesels I've ever owned remapped , Drove much nicer more pull through the range increased mpg 

Then I saw the light and got a 3.0i straight 6 petrol engine :devil:


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## Toma (Sep 16, 2013)

R7KY D said:


> I've had all the diesels I've ever owned remapped , Drove much nicer more pull through the range increased mpg
> 
> Then I saw the light and got a 3.0i straight 6 petrol engine :devil:


And did you look back?


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## Toma (Sep 16, 2013)

Turkleton said:


> 120ps in a car as big as an A4 isn't helping massively


Thats what im talking about. I am to blame for this i was trying to be sensible at 23


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Diesel = devils fuel! :devil::lol:

I too had an A4 diesel s-line (all be it a 140bhp) & couldn't wait to get rid of it :wall:

Now have a petrol A4 ( http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=272166 ) & love it! :driver:

I can honestly say a diesel will never darken my garage again! :lol:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Years ago the argument was always turbocharged diesel v normally aspirated petrol. 

Diesel cars always had the advantage of having a turbo to boost the power and torque figures up significantly. Ever driven a NA diesel? They are awful, absolutely awful. 

These days a lot of cars have moved down the turbo charging route. 

The real argument these days is now turbo v turbo. 

The new Golf GTi returns 47mpg and the BMW 328i does 45mpg with 245bhp and a 0-60mph in 5.9sec.

I bet any diesel that can match their performance can barely beat the economy.


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## Toma (Sep 16, 2013)

Kerr said:


> Years ago the argument was always turbocharged diesel v normally aspirated petrol.
> 
> Diesel cars always had the advantage of having a turbo to boost the power and torque figures up significantly. Ever driven a NA diesel? They are awful, absolutely awful.
> 
> ...


This is my point diesels dont really give you that much back. Ive got a mate who agrees that diesels are just as expensive. Hes looking at a small petrol now with boost


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

Toma said:


> And did you look back?


Only in my rear view mirror


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## Toma (Sep 16, 2013)

R7KY D said:


> Only in my rear view mirror


:driver::lol: Cant wait for that


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

I would always take petrol over modern diesels , they are to complex with extremely expensive components


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## Mattwilko92 (Aug 4, 2008)

I had a mad moment and bought a BMW 118d - 55mpg claimed and £30 a year tax sold it to me. Had it remapped 12 months later - power delivery still boring as hell. Never really fell in love with it so sold it and got back in a petrol. Plus it only ever returned about 42mpg due to mainly town driving, my new Audi A1 TFSI gets 36 so not a huge difference taking into account cost of buying DERV.


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## Toma (Sep 16, 2013)

Mattwilko92 said:


> I had a mad moment and bought a BMW 118d - 55mpg claimed and £30 a year tax sold it to me. Had it remapped 12 months later - power delivery still boring as hell. Never really fell in love with it so sold it and got back in a petrol. Plus it only ever returned about 42mpg due to mainly town driving, my new Audi A1 TFSI gets 36 so not a huge difference taking into account cost of buying DERV.


The claims are never true


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Diesels!? Never have and never would.. Hate em!!!:devil:


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## Davide82 (Sep 17, 2013)

Diesels have come along way on recent years

Some engines now are 2.0litre turbos (1 or 2 turbos) pushing out 180-205bhp and still achieving real world economy of 60mpg motorways an 45mpg in town

Combine that with the great torque figures and tbh you've got yourself a pretty nice car
In gear acceleration is here diesels are brilliant - accessing full torques from such low RPM

I think most people jump into a diesel and drive it like a petrol! You have to adapt your style to suit otherwise you won't see any benefits

Personally I'm in my first diesel atm and unless my mileage drops significantly then I'm diesel all the way

People may laugh at the though of a performance diesel, but the cars mentioned above are already 0-60mph in 6.9-7.9 secs
That's no slouch

For more performance go or a 3L lump


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## AndyC (Oct 25, 2005)

Yesterday I travelled from Basingstoke to Stafford.

Average speed 61mph.

Average mpg 51.2.

A 2 litre petrol would have been around 10mpg less as would my wife's 1600cc Megane.

Happy with that.


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## Method Man (Aug 28, 2009)

Had a trundle through the country lanes of south Leicestershire today to get my daughter off to sleep. Kept at a steady 40 mph and averaged close to 60mpg


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## Richf (Apr 26, 2008)

My cr engined diesel Superb will do an actual fill to fill of 49mpg on a long trip , sitting on the cruise control at 80mph in France I often get this , day to day it gives 44-45mpg 

On the dyno it produced bang on 200hp , not remapped or anything , just a replacement air filter

My daily driver a 1.4 petrol Fabia vrs produces about the same hp is slightly quicker to 60 but struggles to top 40mpg on a run ! 

Like for like its always about 10mpg better than a comparable petrol 

I really don't believe those figures quoted for the Golf GTI , my mate used to get 32-35 on his daily commute with his Vrs Octavia with the 2litre petrol turbo.


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## knightstemplar (Jun 18, 2010)

New Xdrive 335d = 0-60 in 4.8 seconds and over 50 mpg:thumb:


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## Richf (Apr 26, 2008)

My mate has a mapped 535d , goes like stink but barely gets over 30mpg if you use the performance just like the 335d


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## Geordieexile (May 21, 2013)

knightstemplar said:


> New Xdrive 335d = 0-60 in 4.8 seconds and over 50 mpg:thumb:


That's a pretty serious combination if it proves to be true in use!


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

knightstemplar said:


> New Xdrive 335d = 0-60 in 4.8 seconds and over 50 mpg:thumb:





Geordieexile said:


> That's a pretty serious combination if it proves to be true in use!


All the new BMWs with the latest gearboxes and putting in great accleration figures. The little M135i at 4.5secs with 2 wheel drive.

245bhp in the 328i and RWD translates to tested times of 5.6secs.

The 335d xdrive has been tested at 0-60mph in 4.8secs and 100mph in 11.8secs which makes it a quick car.

It does seem BMW have made a very good 4wd system to make the car remain very much like a RWD according to reports.

I do seriously doubt the 50mpg though. That's 20mpg up on real world figures for the previous 335d.


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## carrera2s (Jun 28, 2009)

Love diesels:thumb: my vitosportx van has 3.0L V6 204bhp. Auto box long wheelbase. Does 25mpg. It's fully racked out and loaded with all my work gear so heavy. Love the power and torque. Had 3.0L diesel Audi A4 TDV Avant auto that was fantastic. Power and torque again fab. 240 BHP. Also have a Citroen Dispatch 2006 2.0L HDI and mixture of A roads and motorway get 700 miles to 70 litres time and time again. And I don't hang around in it either! 

Diesels are fab!:thumb: and I have had lots of Petrol cars including high performance ones too. 

Paul


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## PLuKE (Mar 4, 2009)

So go back a few months I would disagree with this thread.

I had a Mk4 Ibiza Sport TDI PD130, mapped which was tweaked, that was quick for what it was, many a play with Clio 197, Type R, GTI, and just ask quick. It would get 45-48mpg around town, didn't even think about driving style, and 57-62mpg on the motorway between .7 to .85 leptons

I bought an MK2 Leon FR TDI PD170 over the TFSI due to my mileage a few months back. Wow what a jump! MPG is shocking, town driving being careful 35-40mpg motorway at 70mph is around 45mpg. Again had a play with a Type R which is just as quick. The PD170 has turbo lag, it suffers from DPF problems, it does rev to the redline freely while still holding power, but now I wish I went petrol! 

Luke


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