# Durabilty of LSP's does it matter?



## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

Ok fellow Dw members heres a question for you all.

As seems the case these days every wax and sealant that comes along claims fantastic durability, 3 months ,6 months a year and so on.

But does it really matter as the majority of sales of these products will be to hobbyist semi pros pros and the like and a massive amount of sales of these products will come directly or indirectly through this forum.

Now correct me if im wrong but the majority on here would rather cut off there right arm before leaving there car without adding a new wax or sealant for that length of time.I appreciate that a month or two should be a given in any decent lsp but 6 months plus ,a year,its way to long for me to care about that length of protection if the claims hold water.........

Which brings me to the title of the thread ,Durability,does it matter that much?


----------



## Spoony (May 28, 2007)

IMHO no it does not. As long as it can last over a month I'm happy.


----------



## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

From a business perspective, yes it does - and I like to know what I'm telling my customers is going to be realistic.

On my own car, at the moment, I want something solid as I barely get a chance to wash it as I'm detailing on any spare days I have. When it warms up a little and the light nights come in, I suspect this may change and I'll want to start waxing more.

I'm tempted to get some Opti Coat on my car and then still apply waxes on top as and when the desire takes me - something like Pinnacle Souveran for example which always looks amazing on black.

I think we all want something decent to get us through Winter too.

My biggest issue is around some silly claims being made and having no evidence to back them up at all!!

Some also underestimate the importance of temperature and moisture levels when applying, and the impact that this can have.

Is it important to the hobbyist? If you'd have asked me 2 years ago, then I'd have said "no"!!


----------



## Deano (Jul 7, 2006)

doesnt matter one bit to me, I purposely don't buy the 2 yr plus durability ones as I want to wax/ seal it every month just for the hell of it. :lol:

like russ says though, as a business it's a useful thing to offer joe public who wont be doing it themselves.


----------



## CliveP (Feb 1, 2009)

From my hobbyist's perspective - no it doesn't - I'm only here once, I can't change my car every five minutes, so I'm sure as whatsits will take pleasure from either re-doing, topping up or changing my LSP as often as the mood and opportunity takes me! Sometimes weekly!

Regards,
Clive.


----------



## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

MidlandsCarCare said:


> From a business perspective, yes it does - and I like to know what I'm telling my customers is going to be realistic.
> 
> On my own car, at the moment, I want something solid as I barely get a chance to wash it as I'm detailing on any spare days I have. When it warms up a little and the light nights come in, I suspect this may change and I'll want to start waxing more.
> 
> ...


I think youve got what i mean to a degree Russ,

yes of course we all want something that is decent enough as i said , a couple of months should be a given but.... do we all need products claiming 6 months plus as they all seem to now.

Yes from your point of view offering a customer 12 months protection is good for them...but not as good as quarterly top ups would be for you.


----------



## MirfieldMat (Mar 13, 2011)

its important to me. i dont always have time to spend on the car and it regularly just gets a wash as that is all i have time for - so knowing that i have 6 months of protection on there means i dont have to make time to give it some extra tlc every month.

i havent done anything to the motor since october i think - just dont have time through the winter - wash once every 7-10 days and thats it until the days get longer.


----------



## WannaBd (Dec 18, 2010)

R0B said:


> not as good as quarterly top ups would be for you.


That's exactly right, from a business pov, unless your a pro detailer, & not a valeter serving the majority of people, these so called 6 mths + products,would/could do you out of some money,unless double etc is charged for the initial application.


----------



## stantheman (Dec 23, 2010)

Durability matters to me! On average I seal my paintwork 3 times a year and I wouldn't like to be dictated to as when to add protection it's bad enough having to work around the weather, so I always manage a new lsp way before the previous one dies! It's a bit like filling up with fuel.... I never leave it to the last minute! But that's just me.


----------



## WannaBd (Dec 18, 2010)

MidlandsCarCare said:


> Fr
> Some also underestimate the importance of temperature and moisture levels when applying, and the impact that this can have.


I take it majority can't be applied properly in damp conditions. I'm a mobile valeter & I was using poorboys sealants , ex & ex-p after pro polish, no clay, it struggled to sheet water after 2 weeks, I actually did half car in natty's & other half using exp, natty's still working after 8 weeks, on a car that only I clean every 2 weeks. I actually posted a thread on it. All applied around midday on a dry nov day, so I wonder were I went wrong?


----------



## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

stantheman said:


> Durability matters to me! On average I seal my paintwork 3 times a year and I wouldn't like to be dictated to as when to add protection it's bad enough having to work around the weather, so I always manage a new lsp way before the previous one dies! It's a bit like filling up with fuel.... I never leave it to the last minute! But that's just me.


nobody is dictating anything to you,its a question and to you it does matter.

Thread is there to create debate as to if it matters or not to the individual with regard to (claimed) long durability lsp's


----------



## Sawyer (Feb 24, 2011)

6 months is perfect for me. I deep clean my car twice a year, once at the start of winter and at the start of summer.


----------



## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

What actually lasts for 6 months though??


----------



## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

After polishing her in doors car one half has an LSP applied and the other half has nothing. Apart from the beading side of things there is so little in normal light to tell a difference.

GM say that their new clear coats need nothing applied and Ford are using a self healing clear, like Infiniti (in the US) that they do not recommend anything appied.

Dodge use a similar technology and do not recommend any extra applied products. 

So to be brutal.......the half of the car is just as shiney as the LSP side of the car.


----------



## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

MidlandsCarCare said:


> What actually lasts for 6 months though??


Collinite 845
Collinite 476s
Dodo Juice supernatural hybrid

Just the few so far I can safely say by maintaining cars wearing these said lsp's. There is of course the matter of how many miles the vehicle does in a period of time. Does it sit outdoors or is it kept warm and snug in the garage and seldom rarely taken out for a drive. How and when its been applied. So many variables to consider.

ROB - From a business perspective I would say yes durability counts if thats what the client stipulates. Should they go into a maintenance regime then the more wetter finish and lesser durable waxes can be used as they are frequently toped up so on that note, not so important. For the ownesr that take care of there cars themselves. Thats where the question is divided I feel. Some love waxing and having a freshly waxed finish. Others simply do not have the time to frequently do so. If I was a car owner and not doing this as a trade then durability wouldnt be a factor to consider for my personal vehicle as I have always enjoyed maintaining my own vehicles in the past.


----------



## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

For me yes, but i know the signs when my wax is degrading on my paint, lets say if i parked under tree one night, the wax will help with the tree sap so it will not etch into the paint, or on a long journey, bird bombs it may protect from them, depends how much acids in them could be a heavy content one, at least i have the reassurance in my mind and heart that my car is protected from the elements to the best standard i can.


----------



## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Don't get me wrong, i do find on darker colours any lsp on the market adds something to the finish, even if the paint is bad to start with.


----------



## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Does it matter? Yes! Of course it does! otherwise we'd all be just using glazes......

I want to re-wax when I want to, not when the LSP deteriorates! I like my beauty waxes, but still want it to last, which is why I choose to use Vics red over others like Pinnacle Souveran and my P21S concours. 

On my wheels I use C.Quartz for maximum durability! Regular sealants are CRAP on wheels! There you go, I said it!  I don't want to take them off the car to re-seal every month...


----------



## stealthwolf (Sep 24, 2008)

For me, I like to know how long's something going to last. It influences my detailing schedule. If an LSP will last four months, it'll help get through winter when the weather can be less favourable for detailing. 

On the other hand, I had the pleasure of using P21S/R222 last summer. The weather and conditions made it more joyous to top up the wax regularly so I wasn't worried when beading started to go after two weeks.


----------



## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

stealthwolf said:


> For me, I like to know how long's something going to last. It influences my detailing schedule. If an LSP will last four months, it'll help get through winter when the weather can be less favourable for detailing.


+1 - I'm in the unfortunate position where I'm forced to find the easiest ways
of doing things, so if I'm suddenly unable to regularly clean or do a top-up, I 
do, at least, know that there is protection in place.

Though, my order of importance = ease of use, looks, durability...
Having said that: those three regularly change places, depending upon mood,
season or circumstances.

Regards,
Steve


----------



## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

R0B said:


> yes of course we all want something that is decent enough as i said , a couple of months should be a given but.... do we all need products claiming 6 months plus as they all seem to now.


I think we do tbh, purely because not many of the things that are supposed to last 6 months actually do, something we all need to learn imho is in a photo on here products can be made to look amazing but they rarely actually perform to the standard they claim. I'm one of the people that haven't got time to be stripping and re-applying an lsp every month, I need something that's easy to use and lasts well. From a detailing business point of view the pros need stuff to back up their claims if prolonged durability or it makes them look unprofessional imho.


----------



## umi000 (Jan 14, 2011)

For me, as long as it can last two months, I am happy with it. However, two months in the intense sun and frequent rain of a tropical country can be pretty difficult for most LSPs - in my experience, 845 starts degrading after six weeks; Blackfire AFPP wasn't looking too good after four.


----------



## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

Good answers by all, reason for the thread was to see what peoples opinions were on the subject and its divided it would seem dependent on there circumstances.:thumb:


----------



## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Hobbyist no... business yes...


----------



## alan_mcc (Oct 28, 2008)

I guess the only real times it matters is through winter, or on someone who is paying for the service's car!

I wax mine weekly now :thumb:


----------



## stantheman (Dec 23, 2010)

R0B said:


> nobody is dictating anything to you,its a question and to you it does matter.
> 
> Thread is there to create debate as to if it matters or not to the individual with regard to (claimed) long durability lsp's


Rob you have misunderstood me, I meant the paintwork dictating when it needs new protection, (just like the fuel analogy I always re-fuel way before the warning light appears!) basically I want to re- seal/wax when I want to and not when it deteriorates.:thumb:


----------



## moosh (May 8, 2011)

It's all about the finish for me and if it last between 1 month and 2 I'm a happy man. I buy products for there quality ease of use and finish.

For me rubbishboys juiced edition has all of what I need on my car.

I have lots of lsps that I like to use on various other cars but for my car RB's is always my go to as I do 500 miles a week in all weathers on roads tracks fields and anywhere I need to be in the highlands of Scotland.


----------



## amiller (Jan 1, 2009)

Mirror Finish Details said:


> After polishing her in doors car one half has an LSP applied and the other half has nothing. Apart from the beading side of things there is so little in normal light to tell a difference.
> 
> GM say that their new clear coats need nothing applied and Ford are using a self healing clear, like Infiniti (in the US) that they do not recommend anything appied.
> 
> ...


The half with no LSP has no sacrificial layer-which is the primary purpose of an LSP!

You'd have to bonkers to believe there is no advantage to having a decent LSP. And to say it from a business account- just crazy IMO! :speechles

And to believe claims of self healing paint- ever have of marketing?! :lol:


----------



## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

say through winter fk1000 will get topped up 4+ months but knowing it could go on further is peace of mind. If my lsp was to only last a month then say at 3 weeks i would be not concerned but itchy as to whether the car is protected and i dont have the chance to be re-applying or stripping etc every month.

its nice to know you have a coat over your hard work plus the advantage of aiding drying massively


----------



## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

alan_mcc said:


> I wax mine weekly now :thumb:


I really should do the same.... Got so much, I'd never use it all!!!


----------



## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

this is teh thing with opti seal in the summer really doesnt need as many coats as i do but for a quick wipe on and walk its far too easy not to


----------



## RaceGlazer (Jan 10, 2007)

Some interesting comment on this thread.

From the perspective of a customer who has paid for a detail he doesn't want to have to have it topped up again sooner than necessary from a cost viewpoint and it looks bad for the detailer who did it if the beading has gone in a few weeks. Thats how much of the public will judge of the product is still there. The detailer may not get the next job if the product he applied is regarded as poor, so from a buisness viewpoint cheap/poor durability product isn't always a good choice. Proper PRO standard prep will amaze most clients anyway.

Most people in the UK buying wax aren't on DW, they don't want to do it every fortnight and want to buy once and use the full jar over years. They won't swap for the latest fad product and will do their research, one key factor in their choice being durability. They think wax, not sealant. Absolute looks may not be as important if you are older, busier or harried for time by other committments.

Others simply may not want to prep and wax their car mid-winter, and do what I did in October - have a very durable wax applied, 2 coats and expect it to get me through to April (RG Black Label in this case). So durability is key. Thats why that wax is on all 3 of my vehicles - and even if I had to pay for it durability would be key to me.

We have product which will last 6+ months, like 55, our Signature 4x4 Wax was still on the outdoor car test panel after 8 months. Yes, almost everyone on here would have been out months prior and topped up but many non-DW types wouldn't. Thats why they buy it, though obvoiusly we prefer to sell to DW-ers who use up lots more product !


----------



## mighty82 (May 13, 2009)

I wax my car when I have to. I don't get much time for my own car. Can anybody tell me the point of waxing weekly? No wax will be worn or gone after a week. It's not like you can build a thick layer either as every new layer dissolves the old one.

Anyway, my customers would never come back if I used waxes with short durability. Whats the point of using a short lasting wax when you could use one with long durability? They all look the same anyway.


----------



## Hoppo32 (Nov 18, 2008)

Through winter i have no urge to be outside waxing my car so i need something that will give me 6+ months. Last winter 2 coats of AG HD Wax applied in october was still beading at the end of march when i stripped it.
In summer it dont matter to me as after a wash i just throw on another coat of Werkstat AJT, it only takes minutes and layers really well.


----------



## ryanuk (Jun 22, 2007)

Yes it does matter,and you will not beat collinite wax's for lasting! there the best on the market! I feel sorry for people spending 1000+ on a wax,must have something wrong up there! unless you are buying it for your business then i can see why you would spend it as some times you have to have what your customers want.


----------



## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Did you not see the wax test where colli didn't fair as well as expected? I've never like 476 tbh, it doesn'ty last any longer than it's rivals mutes flake on certain colour.


----------



## RaceGlazer (Jan 10, 2007)

Test orignally started 30th June 2008. Reviews took place at 26th July, 1st Spet, 8th Oct and 1st Nov 2008.

After 6 and 1/2 months, the following waxes are still protecting the paintwork:

Autoglym Hi Def
Collinite 915 Marque D'Elegance
Nattys White & Blue
RaceGlaze 55
Swissvax Divine, Mystery, BoS and Concourso
Victoria Concours
Zymol Vintage and Glasur


----------



## alfajim (May 4, 2011)

not too bothered for my own car but for mates cars that i only get to do before winter and summer i like something that'll stay the distance.


----------



## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

In this weather it matters to me as I like to protect my car for the winter period, usually end Oct - end Jan.

Once the weather warms up - durability isn't that much of an issue as I can re-apply any dressing the following weekend weather permitting.

Winter is coming!


----------



## Kaz_CC (Jan 23, 2012)

Each to their own imo


----------



## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

RaceGlazer said:


> Test orignally started 30th June 2008. Reviews took place at 26th July, 1st Spet, 8th Oct and 1st Nov 2008.
> 
> After 6 and 1/2 months, the following waxes are still protecting the paintwork:
> 
> ...


That test was really ONLY one test and you can't generalise that those wax usually stands that 6+ months. It depends variable thinks how long it would last. There are different place around the car where wax wont get many months longevity, like side panels versus roof etc..


----------



## E38_ross (May 10, 2010)

varies from person to person.

to me - yes. why? because there is no way you'll catch me waxing a car in sub-zero temperatures! that's why i have C1. if i fancy a bit of a detail then i just put some C2 over the top....no harm done and i get my fix.

my dads car which i detail - yes. because i'm only around a few weeks of the year and he hates cleaning his car but loves it looking clean, so it has C1 on it which has proven to keep his car cleaner for way longer than any wax it's ever had on it.

for summer months for hobbyist detailers....no, it probably doesn't.

i value other things too like UV block, swirl resistance, dirt repellancy etc etc. all of which are lacking on "short term" LSPs.


----------



## Dan_S (Nov 10, 2011)

For me extreme durability is not a huge concern. I prefer the look of waxes and enjoy applying them, so if a wax looks better and lasts a month then I would prefer the improved looks over extra durability. Fortunately the winter weather in Australia is pretty mild so waxing every 3-4 weeks throughout the year is no problem.


----------



## E38_ross (May 10, 2010)

with looks though, i struggled to tell any difference between zymol glasur or C1, especially from anything more than 1 foot away. i bought a sample pot of glasur (50ml) as i wanted to see for my own eyes. it's just sat at home doing nothing.

it's barely been used at all, if anyone wants it let me know! :lol: i'm going to clear all my waxes out soon


----------



## DesertDog (May 15, 2011)

Durability isn't an issue for me either.....over here it sometimes rains in February once or twice.

Pinnacle Souveran has been my long time favourite LSP on non-metallic reds and blacks on account of it's immense wetness and depth of shine on these colours.


----------



## Russ and his BM (Jan 1, 2008)

I have megs 16 and 1000p, both chosen for the combination of cost, looks, durability and ease of use. I top up every wash (about every 2 weeks) with ag aqua wax, because it's just so easy and adds looks and refreshes the beading. I just don't know what the car would look like after 4 to 6 months if I didn't do top-ups like this. I know I would feel slightly itchy about putting more protection on it. As it is now, the car, last protected with megs 16 in September, and topped up as I said, sheets so well I only have just enough water on the car each time to apply the aqua wax with. Indeed, it was obvious to me yesterday when I washed it that protection was present, so I didn't bother with the aqua wax. I wonder if it's cumulative, and builds up protection over time? Sorry for my rambling reply!


----------



## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

RaceGlazer said:


> Some interesting comment on this thread.
> 
> From the perspective of a customer who has paid for a detail he doesn't want to have to have it topped up again sooner than necessary from a cost viewpoint and it looks bad for the detailer who did it if the beading has gone in a few weeks. Thats how much of the public will judge of the product is still there. The detailer may not get the next job if the product he applied is regarded as poor, so from a buisness viewpoint cheap/poor durability product isn't always a good choice. Proper PRO standard prep will amaze most clients anyway.
> 
> ...


All very true indeed. It reminds me that I still need to get some Black Label from you.


----------



## adamvr619 (Jun 12, 2010)

DesertDog said:


> Durability isn't an issue for me either.....over here it sometimes rains in February once or twice.
> 
> Pinnacle Souveran has been my long time favourite LSP on non-metallic reds and blacks on account of it's immense wetness and depth of shine on these colours.


as you thinking of giving it away or selling it if you were to give it away id happily take it off you


----------



## adamvr619 (Jun 12, 2010)

are not as haha


----------



## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

sm81 said:


> That test was really ONLY one test and you can't generalise that those wax usually stands that 6+ months. It depends variable thinks how long it would last. There are different place around the car where wax wont get many months longevity, like side panels versus roof etc..


And don't forget about washing your car! It's one thing to coat a panel and leave it for months, and another to wash it every week! It's obvious that the panel left alone will last a lot longer...


----------



## msb (Dec 20, 2009)

The cars on our house are never left long enough for durability to be an issue, but it is nice to know they are well protected if the need arises to not touch them for a few weeks


----------

