# Help me prove a car is protected



## mossey0708 (Mar 3, 2011)

Hi,
after a rather awkward facebook chat with a neighbour whose car I detailed about 9 weeks ago. Apparently, despite the whole;
washing, tar removal, claying, two stage polish on DA and a coat of Dodo Supernatural Hybrid the results on lasted two weeks according to him? and he didn't wanna say anything to me.. 
what the  ?

I asked him what he washed the car with, how etc? Claims to have sponge washed it carefully.
He's calling over in the morning to show me, surely its just a case of it having lost some of its initial beading / surface tension? Or he's after washing the car with g101 or something? 

I take pride in what I do, and I really went to extra rounds with his car, the same product was prominently beading and sheeting on my car for months

His car is a red ep3 civic btw, with all original paint from what I made out at the time...

Any advice or suggestions please! 
He's not that up on the science of everything so to speak, so the simpler the better! 

Thanks in advance guys.

Mossey


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## TheKeano (May 3, 2011)

But is he actually washing it with fairy liquid and a cheap sponge? Might explain it


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## mossey0708 (Mar 3, 2011)

No idea mate,
he's into keeping a car clean, and wouldn't be the sorta clot to do that, especially as he was keen to keep it well and I ran quickly through the whole 2bm etc with good mitts,.. so I'm stumped and shocked to be damn honest..


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## M4D YN (Nov 24, 2007)

tell him to join DW and stop being a prat,if he doesn't believe you,then no big deal unless your going to lose sleep,then if you are,then take all the time you want in trying to sort it :speechles


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## insanejim69 (Nov 13, 2011)

What I have found with SN Hybrid is, if there is alot of traffic film on the car after a few days driving or after alot of dirty rain etc. It can look like there is no beeding and no protection (say after it has rained), which I assume is the traffic film that the water is sitting on top off and not the wax/sealant. But after a quick wash and even just taking a power washer over it you can see the water sheeting and beading due to the Hybris still being there. 

I have found Hybrid to last around 3-4 months, but thats with weekly washing and also topping up after the washes with red mist tropical. 

James


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## mossey0708 (Mar 3, 2011)

Thanks james, that's what i'm hoping for. To be honest i asked him was it beading or shine etc. I just got it didn't last lad, i'll show you tomorrow. I'd put my hands up if all i did was some half ass spray shine or somethin but to have to go to all the rounds and not half charge him enough is a total sickener! And to be honest it is keeping me on edge, at the moment, as i'm only relatively new into offering a detailing service for the locals, and i could do without a loud, wrong mouth in a small town if you get me.


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## insanejim69 (Nov 13, 2011)

Guy sounds full of something ...  :lol:

If he is going to be like that, then the only thing to do is wash and dry his car, then use Red Mist and just say its a basic detailing spray. The red mist will sheet and bead the water perfectly. TBH ..... it just sounds like a problem person, I've had a few, and I clean cars for a hobby (free of charge) as I enjoy it, but only do family, friends and family friends. its normally the family friends thats the problem. 

James


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## mossey0708 (Mar 3, 2011)

I hear ya fella. That was the plan alright. That i was gonna wash it. Dress the tires, and use v7 on the car. I'm only really at hobby rates and i just choose the work if that makes any sense. Its something i enjoy and i only ask for the materials to be covered in pricing. Could really do without any hassle! But back on topic as such is there any way to prove what's happened if anything?


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## insanejim69 (Nov 13, 2011)

Wash the car, dry it carefully ......... then using an open ended hose, try spraying from a height a mist of water continuesly on the car to allow proper beads to form. This will show that if any some sort of protection is still clearly there. Also the water sheeting would be visable too while rinsing the car .  

Other than say using the bonnet as a before and after ......... I'e (wash car, dry car, show him water sheeting and beading on the bonnet and other panels. Use a suitable polish to remove the protection on the bonnet only, and then show him the water effect after the polishing on the bonnet( i.e. the water remaining on the surface like a lake). Then that would only require re protecting the bonnet.  

That way you save reputation (for doing nothing wrong) and also save ££ on product usage. Also just be as polite and helpful as you can, and explain every process your doing to keep yourself in the good books  ......... and AVOID him in the future. :lol:

James


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## mossey0708 (Mar 3, 2011)

Great plan james, thank you very much. I just hope its not a case of him having used fairy liquid etc and i can actually get a difference in removing whatever sealant is left! Ha thanks. I'm a bit more settled now i've a plan of attack for the mornin. Don't worry i'll not be doing his car again anyway!


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## insanejim69 (Nov 13, 2011)

Let us know how you get on ....... would genuinly like to know what has happened , as hybrid is awesome with durability. 

James


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## JK-BHLab (Jul 23, 2010)

Don't wash the entire vehilce do say just HALF the bonnet. Dry it with a microfibre. Any deleterious material will have been removed - then do a beading test you should see the difference clearly between the two sides..


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## DetailMyCar (Apr 19, 2010)

When he's saying it didn't last, it doesn't sound like he's neccessarily talking about the Protiection, but maybe the removal of swirls / scratches....

Is there any chance he's either re-inflicted the damage by sponge washing, or maybe you didn't do an IPA wipedown and what's happened is the oils from the polishes have been washed away and now he can see the swirls have returned??

Just going by the fact he said "It didn't last" - I get the impression he doesn't just mean the beading from the wax/sealant but more the finish itself?? Maybe that's the issue? Maybe he's really daft and thinks it shouldn't have got dirty and should stay clean for months 

Hope you get it resolved anyway, always difficult when you do people's cars as you don't know what they expect or how they will treat it after you've done your thing.


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## CliveP (Feb 1, 2009)

If you did it for your neighbour for nothing what is he complaining about? I wash/dry my neighbours cars (well one of their two cars) most weekends and have done a full detail. All they do is thank me, and we'll be round there for a nosh-up on Christmas Eve.....

Some strange people in this world!

If he keeps moaning and you feel you need to prove something put some Colinite on it, that'll bead forever!

Regards,
Clive.


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## DetailMyCar (Apr 19, 2010)

CliveP said:


> If you did it for your neighbour for nothing what is he complaining about? I wash/dry my neighbours cars (well one of their two cars) most weekends and have done a full detail. All they do is thank me, and *we'll be round there for a nosh-up on Christmas Eve*.....
> 
> Some strange people in this world!
> 
> ...


What kind of neighbours do you have!!!  sorry!

I think the guy doesn't overly know this neighbour too well though as he said he's just started offering a detailing service locally so probably has charged him £50-£100 or so I'd guess... As I say it can be where it gets tricky as a lot of people expect a hell of a lot if they have a car "detailed" - you never know if they're expecting it to stay clean for months, wash itself or look a different colour - some people just don't understand it... I think that's why it would be interesting to know exactly what he means when he said "It didn't last" - I'm guessing he means the swirls are back....


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## CliveP (Feb 1, 2009)

Good point Nick!

I have great neighbours is the answer - we help each other is the answer - I've got keys to their houses and cars even! I'm just friendlyto everyone - I got some scratches off a chaps motorbike headlight last weekend (bike had fallen over) and he's about six houses away!

But yes, I see your points for sure!

Regards,
Clive.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

I've read this thread, i agree with bilt hamber, do half a bonnet and see if its beading, more likely the car has not been washed, so the protective layer has dirt and traffic film on it, which will effect the beading behaviour of the sealant wax.

Or it could be the car has been washed by him, or someone else, with a strong chemical, such as tfr or incorrect wash dilutions of a chemical he has chose, i;m only assuming this, but two weeks, is nothing really, any wax or sealant on the market will last in that time.

The best thing to do, is look at the car, and see what has happened, the owner has admitted he has washed the car, ask him, what with.

Hope this helps, and this problem should be resolved quickly, fingers crossed for you.


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## Sirmally2 (Feb 28, 2011)

Trip tdi said:


> I've read this thread, i agree with bilt hamber, do half a bonnet and see if its beading, more likely the car has not been washed, so the protective layer has dirt and traffic film on it, which will effect the beading behaviour of the sealant wax.
> 
> Or it could be the car has been washed by him, or someone else, with a strong chemical, such as tfr or incorrect wash dilutions of a chemical he has chose, i;m only assuming this, but two weeks, is nothing really, any wax or sealant on the market will last in that time.
> 
> ...


I'd agree with this... Id look at the car to see if its clean etc, then ask him to go through his process, show you what he used and did. Im guessing here but if the beading has fell away from the whole car its been washed with fairy or a strong ratio of TFR.

If it turns out you are wrong(which i do doubt) and has fell away, i would do the full car again but bang collie on it. If that falls away within a few weeks then he is definitely doing something seriously wrong on his wash technique


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## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

Has he washed the car with a wash and wax type product? the wax laid down by the washing might be sat on top of the S/N


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## bero1306 (Jan 24, 2011)

Personally i would just tell him to F*** O**. :thumb:


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## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

JK-BHLab said:


> Don't wash the entire vehilce do say just HALF the bonnet. Dry it with a microfibre. Any deleterious material will have been removed - then do a beading test you should see the difference clearly between the two sides..


^^ Great advice right there :thumb:


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

When talking to him mate, just be polite and as said, explain to him the process you went through and ask him what he washed with specifically. I had someone like this a while back. I fully explained the process, all the products used, durability etc. I then recommended that I put him together a maintenance package with shampoo etc to keep it looking it's best and he said 'it's ok I'll keep ontop of it'.........a week later he said 'the paints really mucky again and there's no water beading'. When I asked what he washed it with he said 'fairy and a cloth, but don't worry I used alot of fairy':doublesho . Also some people expect to pay for the cheapest service and they want the top result which just isn't realistic. It may be worth in future, for you to walk around the car and ask the customer what they're looking to get out of the finish, recommend them a treatment and if they say it's too much, then tell them what you can achieve with their budget and time allowance :thumb:


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## tosh (Dec 30, 2005)

When you do see him - ask him to bring his wash tools with him (bucket, mitt, shampoo) - don't assume anything.


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## Phil H (May 14, 2006)

Just becuase beading has stopped after two weeks doesn't mean its not protected.

Just don't deal with him anymore.


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

mossey0708 said:


> ...I detailed about 9 weeks ago. Apparently, despite the whole; washing, tar
> removal, claying, two stage polish on DA and a coat of Dodo Supernatural
> Hybrid the results on lasted two weeks according to him...


Hmmm... 2 weeks for the wax to go, yet a further 7 weeks pass before he 
says anything - I'm not sure that his motives come with the season's spirit.

Regards,
Steve


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

just wash it for him, no 'top up's' needed...


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## DetailMyCar (Apr 19, 2010)

Phil H said:


> Just becuase beading has stopped after two weeks doesn't mean its not protected.
> 
> Just don't deal with him anymore.


I think a lot of you are jumping to conclusions here, the guy said:

*"the results on lasted two weeks according to him"*

I'll say it again but to me that could possibly mean the swirls being rectified only lasted two weeks, as they're all now back again (due to various reasons i.e him washing it incorrectly, or the fillers / oils in the polish giving the detailer a false correction in the first place if not using an IPA wipedown)?

His statement of "the RESULTS only lasted two weeks" doesn't suggest anything about beading or protection, I'd say he's either expecting the car to have stayed clean, or he's seen swirls in the sunlight and is saying they have returned.


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## Adrian Convery (May 27, 2010)

Ask him how he has been washing the car and with what products. If alls fine then ask him has he been looking for beads on a dirty car or a clean one (the dirt may be preventing the beads)

Then as a last resort if all seems fine what I would do is wash the bonnet for him and dry it, tape it down the middle and use IPA to remove the protection on one side, then take the tape off and run the hose over it to show the difference on the two halves! 

Let us know how you get on!


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

why strip off the wax with IPA, just wash it and show water behaviour with an open hose flow


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

I personally feel there is a miss communication somewhere, someones getting confused on here, sorry to put it like that, thats the only way i can describe it.

Its either the owner of the car, or the detailer, sorry for this once again i;m sure you have done a grand job on his car and you will know alot more than him, but the car having supernatural hybrid, i should of thought the beading will still be there, or is the owner referring to the swirls on the paint.

Looks like a miss communication problem here somewhere, i thing the owner needs to address the problem more clearly...


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

i'd be very suprised if someone could confuse swirls with beading lol


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

-Kev- said:


> i'd be very suprised if someone could confuse swirls with beading lol


I'm certain the op has done a grand job on the car no doubt there, but really the point i am making, is listening to the car owner, and seeing what the problem is, and maybe rectifying it.

But being waxed two weeks ago, i can't see any wax gone from the paint work, its probably got road film on the paint, that is affecting the behaviour of the wax, but to be honest i really don't know and understand what the owner of the vehicle is going on about.

Really you want to find out, has the car been touched in anyway, paintwork wise after the detail... this should give you more of a insight.

Hope this helps.


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## Dodo Factory (Apr 11, 2007)

Assumptions that wax is/isn't on paint are commonplace and many people making those assumptions are often looking at symptoms that may be unrelated. An unprotected car may bead nicely. A protected car may not bead nicely. It is a lot more complicated than people, inc customers, imagine.
The most important thing is to ensure the car is clean. Next, ensure strong products have not been used. Then look at application. SN Hybrid will last many months, so the chances are he is mistaken. It is very easy to misjudge waxes and when they lose initial beading after some UV degredation, or get dirty, and the beading lessens, some people assume they have disappeared when they are still very much 'on the paint' and protecting it.

TBH, it sounds like a customer care/expectation issue and dealing with tricky customers is a challenge to any business. Don't refund him, as you have worked hard. Investigate the problem a little more and find out the real issue (whether he wants to hear or believe the reason or not) and then take it from there. He can email us directly at thedodo -at- dodojuice -dot -com if he wants to hear about SN Hybrid durability directly. It lasts far, far longer than two weeks given correct application and maintenance and my guess is it is a simple case of a customer expecting a car to look pristine for months after (which detailing will never do if a car gets driven!) :thumb:


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Thats a very valid point there Dodo, any wax or sealant on the market will last the duration of two weeks easy, i have a feeling it may be surface dirt or the car has been washed with a strong cleaner, maybe tfr something caustic... who knows apart from the owner of the car.


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## mossey0708 (Mar 3, 2011)

insanejim69 said:


> Let us know how you get on ....... would genuinly like to know what has happened , as hybrid is awesome with durability.
> 
> James


Well, he took my number last night before I got vexed and logged off FB TBH, 
Never called me nor appeared at the garage where I work, (where he met me before as such)
I tried ringing him to no avail, and left a few texts.
He must have sobered up (either metaphorically or literally) and smelt the BS he was spreading.
But I'll not let him rest as I've found out he was incorrectly bad mouthing my work to other people! 



nickg123 said:


> What kind of neighbours do you have!!!  sorry!
> 
> I think the guy doesn't overly know this neighbour too well though as he said he's just started offering a detailing service locally so probably has charged him £50-£100 or so I'd guess... As I say it can be where it gets tricky as a lot of people expect a hell of a lot if they have a car "detailed" - you never know if they're expecting it to stay clean for months, wash itself or look a different colour - some people just don't understand it... I think that's why it would be interesting to know exactly what he means when he said "It didn't last" - I'm guessing he means the swirls are back....


That's exactly it, he got in contact through a mate, but it was in that price range of "it's my hobby but cover my material costs"



andy monty said:


> Has he washed the car with a wash and wax type product? the wax laid down by the washing might be sat on top of the S/N


That's very likely what happened, but as he's now avoiding me I'll have to wait and see... 


Phil H said:


> Just becuase beading has stopped after two weeks doesn't mean its not protected.
> 
> Just don't deal with him anymore.


I fully intend not to!
I thought that too myself, but it's hard to convince a detailing neantherthal, who I spent about 10 mins explaing the difference between a polish, wax and a sealant.. :lol:


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## mossey0708 (Mar 3, 2011)

I'm absolutely overwhelmed with the help and advice given, it's a credit to the admin and the members on here. 
I'm normally a lurker / reader and only started the topic as I was browned off TBH.
As above, he's avoided me today, but I'll not let this slip. I take pride in anything I do, and don't like any criticism especially after a substantial effort was made at mates rates.

It was polished using s17+ on a green hex via DA, mea culpa I didn't use an IPA wipedown, but to the best of my knowledge and ability it was thoroughly wiped down, and checked over pre-waxing with an LED torch to highlight any excessive oils.
The s17 was very thoroughly worked in, with two or more hits at times, and on the softer honda paint this left things 95+% corrected..

The exact phrase I got from him via FB was:
"me car only lasted 2weeks or less wit that polish"

(background info: the whole notions of swirls / holograms etc was new to him until I highlighted it under halogen lighting, in his opinion a car was polished when the water bubbles up on it...) 
so that's what leads me to think that it's no longer beading and that's why in his mind "the polish only lasted two weeks.. "

he was being sort of vague, and the only response I got online about how he washed it etc:
i washed it by hand and looked after it d way u told me 2 

Now bear in mind I told him that less washing the better, he shouldn't have needed to for at least a week, but if he does wash it, (I ran through the 2BM), or at worst, bring a mitt and use the filling station wash, don't ever use brushes or auto washes etc.

I will return to here when i find out what the hell happened. Thanks for all the help and support, I appreciate it.

Mossey


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

All here say untill you get your hands on it and DODO points very valid as are Built Hambers.

Could have used tfr as far as anyone knows.

As you say could well be the fall back on the wax, as dodo say a very clean car can bead.

Let us know how it goes.


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## DetailMyCar (Apr 19, 2010)

mossey0708 said:


> I'm absolutely overwhelmed with the help and advice given, it's a credit to the admin and the members on here.
> I'm normally a lurker / reader and only started the topic as I was browned off TBH.
> As above, he's avoided me today, but I'll not let this slip. I take pride in anything I do, and don't like any criticism especially after a substantial effort was made at mates rates.
> 
> ...


Good lad, shouldn't be an issue with you not getting rid of the swirls with Scholl stuff anyway then...

I bet it's the nice ultra soft Honda paint that's caused the issue, it can go swirly just by looking at it long enough or blowing on it  They're so easily damaged, problem is if you've left it just about perfect any damage is going to be easier to spot as he is now looking for it....

If it is simply a case of it not beading etc, you've had loads of advice now of what to do but it'll be interesting to see what he says the problem is and what you think when you hopefully get to see it!

It sounds more like 2 weeks later he's starting to regret spending money he probably shouldn't have done so is taking it out on you


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## WaxOnWaxOff (Sep 12, 2010)

mossey0708 said:


> The exact phrase I got from him via FB was:
> "me car only lasted 2weeks or less wit that polish"


Basic literacy would seem to be one of the issues 

Seriously though, if someone did a job for me for free (I'm presuming that's what happened here) then I'm not sure I'd complain about it. After the job's done it's up to him to look after.

Quick thought though: Is the car kept outside and has it hailed in your area in the recent storms?


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

that's why i don't do anything for friend or family a pain in the b*m


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## alxg (May 3, 2009)

One thing I always try to find out before agreeing to do a car is how the owner washes it; you can talk to people about 2BM until the cows come home but that doesn't mean that they will listen. My dad is a classic case where he has just got a new car and the immediate question was would I go over it for him. Simple enough request and as its my dad I wouldn't say no of course, but when I found out that he cleans the car with a brush it narrowed down what I would actually do to it significantly.
The point is this; maybe blokee just nodded his head when you advised of best methods and then dragged a sponge over the car at the first chance, and on Honda paint we all know how that ends...


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Probably been washed with a strong TFR and its eroded the wax.At a jetwash or like some of the guys I used to work with who used to use the truck wash to clean their cars which was just a strong tfr in a lance.


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## Lupostef (Nov 20, 2011)

Sure he hasn't taken it to a garage hand car wash? 
Seen them using tar remover with a household broom a few weeks back


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## AaronGTi (Nov 2, 2010)

Any update mate? What was the guy's excuse then?


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## dazzyb (Feb 9, 2010)

lookin forward to his answer as i have had sn on my clio since november and is still beading strong and has barely been washed due to work commitments (unfotunately )


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