# car valeters and lockdown



## ace2000 (Jul 22, 2015)

Guys what's the situation for us car valeters? we obviously can't work from home.
I have watched what this guy has to say and he seems to make sense.





I have over the passed year took all the precautions as we all have to do our part through all this, and I dont want to start a "you SHOULD stay at home to protect us" type of thread, but seriously guys I have been building my business for the last 5 years and I really dont think I will be here much longer if I have to shut down.. Just a bit of advice guys...


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## ace2000 (Jul 22, 2015)

sorry should have said it will be full contactless, like i say dont want to **** people off just some advice


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## 20vKarlos (Aug 8, 2009)

Can you work from home? If not, Go to work. That’s how I’ve perceived these lockdowns


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## TonyHill (Jul 28, 2015)

I worked the whole time through the last lockdown doing mobile valeting. It's entirely possible providing you are sensible. :thumb:


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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

20vKarlos said:


> Can you work from home? If not, Go to work. That's how I've perceived these lockdowns


As above, you don't need to have any contact with a customer before during or after what ever you are doing, wear gloves and sanitize as you go, autosmart have two bio sprays that are worth using, not at the same time but different options. mobile car valeting on your own is much safer than shopping in a supermarket ( imo )


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## Mac- (Apr 9, 2019)

During the first lockdown I emailed Rishi Sunak and Alok Sharma for clarification on such issues, basically they said if you can't work from home you can go out to work. Like you have said, remain contactless and keep yourself clean as you go, it may seem inconsequential to others but you need to keep your family fed, clothed and housed.


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## fabionvieira (Oct 30, 2018)

I think that you would be fine to be working as long as you keep distance and sanitise as you go. 
Just had a read through the guideline and it says that even a cleaner can keep going to clean private houses, so I would expect valeting a car to be ok too. 
I also seen that manual car washes are to be closed but auto car washes are ok to be open. Well today I’m york I’ve seen at least three manual car washes open and in full business. 
It’s all a bit confusing to say the least, but I would still do it as long as you are careful and sanitise, it should be fine.


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## 20vKarlos (Aug 8, 2009)

The first lockdown, EVERYONE took the words from Boris as STAY AT HOME... so they did, and the first two weeks of lockdown was crazy, the motorways were empty, he roads were very quiet and the only places that were busy, were food and beverage shops, as well as the takeaways.

Now, everyone has experienced what the terms are, they’ve pushed boundaries and said, I’m going to work or, I’m staying open...so there are loads of people back at work and although large companies are having employees login remotely, there are a vast amount of people still out and about as they know that there won’t be any consequences.

Our initial lockdown was, you can have an hour for exercise each day, whilst that may be the same now, do you think anyone will adhere to this?


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

we did it differently in Texas.
Schools closed last March, my son is still remote learning. We had no lock down as thats not what happens in Red neck states, it would just be ignored anyway. Just restaurants bars etc had to do deliveries or kerb side pickup. Hairdressers and barbers closed. 

Were also going to do the vaccine differently, 18-55 year olds first so we can keep the economy running, then school kids and lastly older people as they were advised to stay home.


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## Chris Donaldson (Jun 26, 2016)

One thing worth considering is whether your insurance would still be valid if you’re working during the lockdown? I’m not saying it won’t be other otherwise, just a consideration as someone mentioned to me today that they were going to ask their insurance company before making the decision to continue operating.


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## ridders66 (May 24, 2019)

It's my thoughts that it is illegal to open during the lockdown. All car washes have to close, apart from automatic washes, so I think that those rules would also apply to valeters and detailers. I called my Autoglym rep today to see how the land lies, they're taking it day by day.


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## Mac- (Apr 9, 2019)

People in England will have to stay at home and only go out for essential reasons. Primary and secondary schools will move to online learning for all pupils apart from vulnerable and keyworker children.

Reasons to leave home include:

*Work or volunteering where it is "unreasonable" to work from home. This includes work in someone else's home, such as that carried out by social workers, nannies, cleaners and tradespeople*
Education, training, childcare and medical appointments and emergencies
Exercise outdoors (limited to once a day). This includes meeting one other person from another household in an open public space to exercise
Shopping for essentials such as food and medicine
Communal religious worship
Meeting your support or childcare bubble. Children can also move between separated parents
Activities related to moving house


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## TonyHill (Jul 28, 2015)

ridders66 said:


> It's my thoughts that it is illegal to open during the lockdown. All car washes have to close, apart from automatic washes, so I think that those rules would also apply to valeters and detailers. I called my Autoglym rep today to see how the land lies, they're taking it day by day.


Did you not read post #6??


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## Ennoch (Jan 31, 2006)

TonyHill said:


> Did you not read post #6??


So mobile detailers can carry on trading but fixed car washes (i.e, detailers in a different coat) can't? If anything the fixed abode car cleaning sites would appear to be less likely to spread things given reduced time and contact with the vehicles. Another less than joined up response if indeed detailers were given the all clear...


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## Mac- (Apr 9, 2019)

The thing to remember is that the mobile valeter/detailer is likely to be a lone worker.


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## ace2000 (Jul 22, 2015)

great advice guys thanks, i will get in contact with lloyd @ coversure just to double check on the insurance.. 
so yeah the general consensus is to still work but be sensible about it.


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## detailR (Jul 23, 2016)

Check with your local council. 
They'll be the authority on this.


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## ridders66 (May 24, 2019)

Spoke to my Autoglym rep today, he told me that a mobile valeter had been escorted home by the police for working on someones drive cleaning their car. He was told he could work from home but not go to a customers house to clean their car. Escaped a fine narrowly.


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## Mac- (Apr 9, 2019)

ridders66 said:


> Spoke to my Autoglym rep today, he told me that a mobile valeter had been escorted home by the police for working on someones drive cleaning their car. He was told he could work from home but not go to a customers house to clean their car. Escaped a fine narrowly.


Large pinch of salt with that imho, the government guidelines are pretty unequivocal, if you cant work from home then you can go out to work.


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## TonyHill (Jul 28, 2015)

How is it so called elite sports, like football, can carry on unhindered? Surely 22 blokes travelling up and down the country from different households, coughing, breathing, spitting, pose far more of a serious problem than a lone valeter on someones driveway!!


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

TonyHill said:


> How is it so called elite sports, like football, can carry on unhindered? Surely 22 blokes travelling up and down the country from different households, coughing, breathing, spitting, pose far more of a serious problem than a lone valeter on someones driveway!!


Elite sports gives a large proportion of the country enjoyment every week and something to look forward to during this lockdown. Live sport means so much to so many people.

People already highlight the levels of boredom and metal health issues that are caused under lockdown. Take away the enjoyment of sport, and the interactions people have around it, and it'll hit the country hard.

Elite sports are played under reasonably tight restrictions with rigorous testing.


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## TonyHill (Jul 28, 2015)

Whilst this may be true, there are cases of covid being found at clubs on almost a weekly basis, so either the testing isn't being carried out thoroughly enough, or not often enough.
Large proportions of people enjoyed going to the pub or out for a meal but that's had to stop....what's the difference?


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

TonyHill said:


> Whilst this may be true, there are cases of covid being found at clubs on almost a weekly basis, so either the testing isn't being carried out thoroughly enough, or not often enough.
> Large proportions of people enjoyed going to the pub or out for a meal but that's had to stop....what's the difference?


If they are catching the cases every week then clearly the testing is working.

The difference is millions of people enjoy watching sport on the TV. For millions to enjoy the pubs and restaurants they all have to go in person.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

Chris Donaldson said:


> One thing worth considering is whether your insurance would still be valid if you're working during the lockdown? I'm not saying it won't be other otherwise, just a consideration as someone mentioned to me today that they were going to ask their insurance company before making the decision to continue operating.


Firstly this only applies to our customers, if you are insured anywhere else, then you will need to check with your own Insurers.

On the legal liability side of things, we've received confirmation that there is nothing that the Insurers can see why the policy won't respond (i.e. come into effect) in the event of a claim where the policyholder is legally liable. If you have employees, then you must be mindful of your legal duties and Government advice regarding employees.

Our Internal Risks Insurers have confirmed the same that there are no policy exclusions that would prevent a claim being made during lockdown.

The Government legislation is not particularly clear. Previous legislation ultimately said that it is down to the business to interpret the legislation and if they should or should not work. We would recommend seeking written confirmation from your Local Council as to whether you are permitted to work or not.

However, if a business has specifically been told to close, then _potentially _there could be insurance issues as they are then knowingly operating against legislation and potentially committing a criminal act. Consider losing control of your car and crashing it through a shop against using your car to ram raid a shop. The Insurers would not pay for the ram raid car as you were using it whilst committing a criminal act.

In any event, policies will not cover fines imposed as a result of trading against legislation or any directly or indirectly COVID-19 disease related claims (e.g. a customer trying to sue for catching COVID-19 from a vehicle you have cleaned).


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## TonyHill (Jul 28, 2015)

Kerr said:


> If they are catching the cases every week then clearly the testing is working.
> 
> The difference is millions of people enjoy watching sport on the TV. For millions to enjoy the pubs and restaurants they all have to go in person.


Either way, I'm not arguing. You obviously have no idea on the logistics and the number of people involved in broadcasting live television, it's mind blowing....I know first hand. 
All I'm saying is the lone car valeter should be perfectly OK to carry on using necessary precautions and common sense :thumb:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

TonyHill said:


> Either way, I'm not arguing. You obviously have no idea on the logistics and the number of people involved in broadcasting live television, it's mind blowing....I know first hand.
> All I'm saying is the lone car valeter should be perfectly OK to carry on using necessary precautions and common sense :thumb:


You're not arguing.......but you're going to continue to argue. :lol:

It was you that brought football and the service industry into it and still adding further points to back your original post.

I am fully aware that there's lots of people behind running live TV broadcasts. It's hardly a suprise, especially when Sky have documented it.

There is lots of people in the chain of providing goods and services for people to enjoy pubs and restaurants. It's not just the customer. Every job and service has a supply chain and support. The one man valeter has his smaller amount of needs.

I'm not for one second saying that I see any issues with them carrying on as I don't. Where do you draw the line? Just about everyone thinks they can do their job safely.

This isn't about the valeter thing though. This is about your continuous hate of football that you post whenever you can. Let your issues go and enjoy what you enjoy. :thumb:


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## TonyHill (Jul 28, 2015)

And so ends today's sermon.
Amen!!


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

TonyHill said:


> And so ends today's sermon.
> Amen!!


There is no need to be childish and snippy.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

20vKarlos said:


> Our initial lockdown was, you can have an hour for exercise each day, whilst that may be the same now, do you think anyone will adhere to this?


That was not written anywhere in law - ever.

It was the testicle face [email protected] Grove that, when pushed, mentioned an hour should be fine and suddenly all the papers jumped on it.

You are, as you have always been able to, exercise outside for an indefinite amount of time.

There seems to be a bit of a gulf between what is guidance and what is actual LAW, people really need to know and understand the difference.

I'm not saying that because you legally can do something, you should… a bit of common sense goes a long way.

:thumb:


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

TonyHill said:


> And so ends today's sermon.
> Amen!!


and awomen


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

The Cueball said:


> That was not written anywhere in law - ever.
> 
> It was the testicle face [email protected] Grove that, when pushed, mentioned an hour should be fine and suddenly all the papers jumped on it.
> 
> ...


I'm not really sure your average Joe Bloggs would know if its law or guidance. We drove about 15miles one day over Xmas to go walking. Place we know is quiet, even in height of Summer and good to let our dog run free as she'll bother anyone we come across!! Walked 11 miles took all day as we took picnic etc. Only came across 3 others all day, had a lovely time, snowy, cold day, really gorgeous. Got home to see on S Media photos from police of cars in Snowdonia and N Wales and tickets given out to drivers because apparently all exercise has to begin and end at home! We had no idea of that rule /guidance/law. Now they did point out 1 car was from London and 1 from Leeds(iirc) so obviously that's taking the Mick slightly but I wonder how many locals knew nothing of this law.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Darlofan said:


> I'm not really sure your average Joe Bloggs would know if its law or guidance..


Totally agree.. but it's good to know and undersstand the difference, not just in Covid times either... 

Mind you, there are plenty of policy officers out there without the understanding of the law as well, so I shouldn't expect too much.

:doublesho:lol::lol:

:thumb:


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## Ennoch (Jan 31, 2006)

Darlofan said:


> I'm not really sure your average Joe Bloggs would know if its law or guidance. We drove about 15miles one day over Xmas to go walking. Place we know is quiet, even in height of Summer and good to let our dog run free as she'll bother anyone we come across!! Walked 11 miles took all day as we took picnic etc. Only came across 3 others all day, had a lovely time, snowy, cold day, really gorgeous. Got home to see on S Media photos from police of cars in Snowdonia and N Wales and tickets given out to drivers because apparently all exercise has to begin and end at home! We had no idea of that rule /guidance/law. Now they did point out 1 car was from London and 1 from Leeds(iirc) so obviously that's taking the Mick slightly but I wonder how many locals knew nothing of this law.


Welsh law is different to English in this, and then different again in Scotland. I'm currently in the Highlands so as long as I remain in this area I can basically do what I want. While some stuff like true winter climbing is clearly a bit unnecessary, it isn't illegal as the statement is based on 'exercise and recreation' which is a rather large cover all. And herein lies the problem; I am getting out into the hills for some big days which some people see as wrong, yet I am totally avoiding numerous 'legal' interactions because I see them as unnecessarily risky. Ultimately guidance and suggestions are there but the only bit which actually counts is the law, everything else is judgement.


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## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

Ennoch said:


> Welsh law is different to English in this, and then different again in Scotland. I'm currently in the Highlands so as long as I remain in this area I can basically do what I want. While some stuff like true winter climbing is clearly a bit unnecessary, it isn't illegal as the statement is based on 'exercise and recreation' which is a rather large cover all. And herein lies the problem; I am getting out into the hills for some big days which some people see as wrong, yet I am totally avoiding numerous 'legal' interactions because I see them as unnecessarily risky. Ultimately guidance and suggestions are there but the only bit which actually counts is the law, everything else is judgement.


True, here in Wales I was wrong to drive to Middle of nowhere and walk with family and dog and only see 3 people that I was no closer than 20ft to. Yet perfectly OK for me to drive to supermarket, takeaways, B and Q etc and mingle with hundreds.

On the flip side it's difficult to set rules in times like this as we know, if you say walking up hills is OK then thousands start doing it.


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## ridders66 (May 24, 2019)

Mac- said:


> Large pinch of salt with that imho, the government guidelines are pretty unequivocal, if you cant work from home then you can go out to work.


I'm not sure, I spoke to my rep today, he was telling me that the guy was escorted back home.


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## ridders66 (May 24, 2019)

TonyHill said:


> Either way, I'm not arguing. You obviously have no idea on the logistics and the number of people involved in broadcasting live television, it's mind blowing....I know first hand.
> All I'm saying is the lone car valeter should be perfectly OK to carry on using necessary precautions and common sense :thumb:


But then, where does it stop? One lone worker here, one lone worker there. There has to be a cut off point, whereby some non essential businesses have to close. Let's be honest, having a clean car is not essential. the government guidelines on the website clearly state that automatic car washes can open. Therefore it seems fairly clear to me that hand washes and detailing services are classed as non essential. Regarding the live television, my nephew works in live events, working on world tours and live television, recently he worked on I'm a celebrity. The people involved in these events are massive. Not taking into account the huge crowds of event goers, there is the organisers and staff to consider.


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## ridders66 (May 24, 2019)

TonyHill said:


> I worked the whole time through the last lockdown doing mobile valeting. It's entirely possible providing you are sensible. :thumb:


It may be entirely possible, but is it entirely legal? The reason why we are seeing 1300 people a day dying from Covid, and 60,000 being diagnosed, is due to people not following instructions and thinking that the Law doesn't apply to them. It is very easy to understand.


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## mbarn (Mar 2, 2019)

Accordingly to a letter from my daughters school, they had requests for 90% of the kids to attend. I imagine a lot were declined, but it shows how many people think they are ok to work, or are being asked to work.










I personally don't see any issue with a mobile detailer but many more essential businesses are forced to close. The rules seem like it's allowed.


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## rob267 (Nov 27, 2015)

ridders66 said:


> It may be entirely possible, but is it entirely legal? The reason why we are seeing 1300 people a day dying from Covid, and 60,000 being diagnosed, is due to people not following instructions and thinking that the Law doesn't apply to them. It is very easy to understand.


I would say it is entirely legal. If he can not work from home/ furloughed then he had to go to work.
I also went to work. Had no choice of furlough so had to attend work.
The reason of 1300 a day dying may well be attributed to people still attending work but what else to you expect people to do if they have no choice.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk


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## Glennroy (Jul 12, 2006)

Just coming back to this I have searched and searched and can’t find a solid answer to the original question. 

I have a scenario for all.

I have a car dealer that uses me to valet he is local to me so drops the cars on the drive and goes away I clean them text him and he walks back round collects and pays (contactless) 

I am working on my own from my van on my drive would this be allowed 

Thoughts please


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## detailR (Jul 23, 2016)

Did you contact your local council?


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## SuperchargedLlama (Apr 25, 2008)

Glennroy said:


> Just coming back to this I have searched and searched and can't find a solid answer to the original question.
> 
> I have a scenario for all.
> 
> ...


Yes, it's my understanding that this is allowed.


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## idrobbo (Mar 14, 2018)

Regrettably its not whether we think it would be allowed, but whether which authority questions you about it will allow it.


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## Vans (May 18, 2020)

TonyHill said:


> I worked the whole time through the last lockdown doing mobile valeting. It's entirely possible providing you are sensible. :thumb:


The law states that Vehicle Cleaning both mobile and static should not be taking place as Vehicle cleaning is not an essential service. The only Vehicles which can be legally cleaned are NHS workers Vehicles and Taxis.


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## Eddmeister (May 6, 2011)

Came across this

Bristol Live: Bristol car washes issued notices for opening illegally.
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-car-washes-issued-notices-4960168


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## upcoming (Jul 12, 2013)

Hi all,

I've a mobile detailer and got issued a fine on Friday for breaking national lockdown rules. I believe we can operate as we do not come near the customer and have remote unlocking etc. 

My question is, has anyone else had this issue, I have a fine coming through the post which I want to appeal. From my understanding if I appeal, I will go to court and I can either win or leave with a criminal record / bigger fine.

As far as I understand Fixed Penalty Notice which is the Covid fine acts as a way to avoid court, but if it goes to court, they'll throw the book at you.

I look forward to your comments, even if you think I should not operate and reasons why. 

I guess the ultimate question is how do you define any of this? I'm not a car wash, I believe, we are tradesmen who can still operate. 

Thanks,


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

I did notice the carwash near me is still working away. A look on their social media and they aren't hiding it.


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## Vans (May 18, 2020)

upcoming said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've a mobile detailer and got issued a fine on Friday for breaking national lockdown rules. I believe we can operate as we do not come near the customer and have remote unlocking etc.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately as car detailing or washing is not a necessary service they are right in issuing you with a fixed penalty notice.


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## TonyHill (Jul 28, 2015)

What area do you cover?


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## Ultra (Feb 25, 2006)

upcoming said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've a mobile detailer and got issued a fine on Friday for breaking national lockdown rules. I believe we can operate as we do not come near the customer and have remote unlocking etc.
> 
> ...


Get legal advice on it, the fact that a bellend gave you a fine does'nt make you wrong for putting food on the table, window cleaners, dent removal and smart repairers are still operating, buying a used car is not necessary yet used car dealers ( those that are savvy ) are selling cars like hot cakes.


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## Taxboy (Aug 23, 2006)

As previously suggested if you are thinking about contesting this I would advise seeking professional legal advice. However it would be interesting to know what piece of legislation you are being prosecuted under if you don't mind sharing

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


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## Ennoch (Jan 31, 2006)

Vans said:


> Unfortunately as car detailing or washing is not a necessary service they are right in issuing you with a fixed penalty notice.


The problem is defining what is required as 'necessary', and this is the major issue with the rushed through legislation to deal with Covid. It's also why you see laws in normal times taking several years to get through parliamentary select committees to properly understand the unintended impact and reach of the proposed new laws. Do I agree that detailing is 'necessary'? Not necessarily, no, but as everything is on a sliding scale from not at all necessary (nail painter) to absolutely necessary (a doctor). That and working outside as detailers do is significantly less risky than some other professions that are still trading with no questions.

Basically, I wouldn't advise contesting it without legal advice but remember that a copper is not a lawyer, or a judge, and their understanding of the laws beyond the regular is going to be less impressive than the two former professions. Also to note is that the police as a profession should be respected but that as with all professions, there are many arseholes pushing their own agenda when handing out fines. Back to the point, get some advice!


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