# Insurance black box



## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

Hi

I just read about another company introducing Black Box tracking policy. What they say is to protect You and make Your insurance less expensive if You do not drive much. On other hand this box also will monitor Your driving style (speed,braking time of diving )

Would You allowed any insurance company to install something like that to monitor Your driving ?


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

No. 

Plain and simple mate. 

Its one thing i enjoy and its cars be it driving, watching motorsport etc and i'm not being dictated to when i can and cannot drive my car.


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

To make things clear I'm against this idea and I would rather pay more for my insurance to not have anything like that in my car


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## should_do_more (Apr 30, 2008)

Absolutely agree. Last thing you need is to have to prove you weren't speeding somewhere because they have the wrong data.

Also speed doesn't really hurt anyone. Not stopping and hitting things does.


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## Osarkon (Feb 20, 2011)

One thing that interests me in all this, is have they developed a box that isn't going to mess up the car?

It obviously sits somewhere and gathers data, have they tested it on every single car and found it doesn't mis-behave with the electrics? 

I would have thought that newer cars with computers on board wouldn't take so kindly to something piggybacking off them? 

Or am I missing something?


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

Yes and No. If it makes insurance much cheaper for us younger drivers it would be a nice idea but I don't like the thought of someone watching my every move on the road and being able to prosecute me for having a bit of fun every now and then. I never drive in a dangerous manor but I do like to put my foot down from time to time and enjoy the freedom of driving and having complete control over where, when and how I drive.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

the question is, would they use the data against you even if you never had a crash...

I have fast vehicles, Im not going to lie and say I don't speed, but I'm not wanting a nice ride out in my bike with no incidents to get me banned because my insurance company has passed data onto the police...

I can see the use for the box in the event of an accident... but only in that way... not to snoop on me... and I'm not convinced you have have the first without the second...

Speed has never, and never will kill anyone.... 

:thumb:


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## chisai (Jan 1, 2009)

I don't need a black box to tell me that I drive like a muppet at times. Quiet twisty roads in particular with good visibility and weather.


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## Multipla Mick (Feb 5, 2006)

Have some stranger examine data about my driving style, speeds, time of day etc? No flipping thank you. Like others, I've got nothing to hide really apart from breaking speed limits here and there, but it's the principle.

It's not far away from those GPS thingies that know where you are and therefore can limit the performance of the car depending on what sort of road you're on. Or just simply let you drive freely but send you a NIP through the post later. Function creep and the Govt seeing/using/borrowing the idea for their own gains etc. No ta. Think Nissan have already got the GPS thingy in the 370Z haven't they? It acts as a limiter until you get to a race track it knows and then it lets you have the full power. Might be Jap home market, or an option, only though.

It can of course, also be used to prove your innocence if accused of an offence or your reg has been cloned etc, but I'd rather take my chances and go without thanks.


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## Fish (Nov 16, 2011)

I have voted for no, but if it brings down the price of insurance for younger drivers then I'm all for it. They need to learn to drive, as they are currently being priced off of it.

Fish


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

Fish said:


> I have voted for no, but if it brings down the price of insurance for younger drivers then I'm all for it. They need to learn to drive, as they are currently being priced off of it.
> 
> Fish


^ as above.

If it's a matter of choice to bring down your insurance, then fair play. If it's a matter of dictating what we will have on our cars, I'm against it. I too don't want a device that could become a 'personalised speed camera', as admittedly I DO speed at times; for instance, since my car doesn't get used much at the moment, I took it for a nice drive on long safe roads, and dropped the gears to hit the revs to give the engine a good blow-through.

Anyway, if I wanted a stalker I'd be over on Facebook now.....see ya in a bit :thumb:


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## tmitch45 (Jul 29, 2006)

I agree that it would be an excellent way for young driver to prove that they are responsible drivers. I don't know how new young drivers can afford it! A was chating to someone whos daughter had passed her test and had a brand new but boggo standard Audi A3 and was paying £4000 a year insurance:doublesho


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

I voted no, purely because when I drive to work in the morning most days I see about 4 or 5 cars on my route so why shouldn't I tickle the fun pedal when the mood takes me?


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest. My work car is currently tracked with speed, braking etc through the tomtom, so I'm use to the "big brother" thing.


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## Kriminal (Jan 11, 2007)

neilos said:


> Wouldn't bother me in the slightest. My work car is currently tracked with speed, braking etc through the tomtom, so I'm use to the "big brother" thing.


Just a question - why does the tomtom do that?....is it part of YOUR insurance agreement or something?


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

For me one thing is obvious that data will be used against drivers who like to put foot down and this will be brought back as unsafe driving just check how much more do You pay if You have some points for speeding ...


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## Alzak (Aug 31, 2010)

some lorry drivers are tracked few of my friends got some "spy" in car lol but is more to monitor where they are ...


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## jag1 (Jan 24, 2010)

definite no for me , but could be option for high premium drivers.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

I had a box fitted in December, £804 a year vs Admiral's "best" offer of £1074, or £940 for a 10 month premium (bearing in mind last year's was £670!!)

Not a massive fan of having it there. Stuck behind old people doing 20mph in a 30mph zone and thinking twice about overtaking as the "safe" way would exceed 30mph slightly


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

No for me just another big brother blame culture game IMHO


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## nick.s (Dec 21, 2009)

Big Brother is watching...

It's another way of introducing monitoring of the mass populous, I am dead against it. We'll soon have government required CCTV in our own homes in case we're doing something naughty.


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## dazzyb (Feb 9, 2010)

No for me. Why would I buy a hot hatch to then be monitored every second. Also my job means I have to start early and drive early in the morning. Tht would increase my insurance.


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## Fish (Nov 16, 2011)

Would be interesting to see what they say if you went on a track day. 

Fish


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

Kriminal said:


> Just a question - why does the tomtom do that?....is it part of YOUR insurance agreement or something?


Because its the tomtom "work professional" sat nav. We're tracked with the office, they know how fast we've been going, heavy braking, heavy steering etc, whereabouts we're going and where we've been.

The black box insurance thingie probably works the same way. But, someone "in the know" told me, it collects a lot more information than people know


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I wonder how much data it holds, is it 5 minutes or is it everything that's recorded since it was installed, I could see them using past data to influence there decisions and not pay out. How would it work if you were hit by a car that didn't have a unit installed ? For pay as you drive where it only records vehicle movements not speed then I can see no problem with it, but for using it to monitor other areas I think it's a big no


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

for all the people worried about big brother watching etc... you do realise you are tracked almost every moment of the day at the moment... right?!? 

:lol:

unless of course you don't drive, have a mobile, watch tv, use a debit/credit card, get cash, don't go to any shops both in the high street or a shopping centre......

:thumb:


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

The Cueball said:


> for all the people worried about big brother watching etc... you do realise you are tracked almost every moment of the day at the moment... right?!?
> 
> :lol:
> 
> ...


:lol: exactly....:thumb:


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## Modmedia (Jul 25, 2008)

No chance. You don't buy a DC5 and then drive it slowly.


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## Multipla Mick (Feb 5, 2006)

The Cueball said:


> for all the people worried about big brother watching etc... you do realise you are tracked almost every moment of the day at the moment... right?!?
> 
> :lol:
> 
> ...


Yup, but at the moment as far as I'm aware, there is no unseen wazzock sat in an office miles away, trying to justify his job, and judging me on what I'm doing and then deciding whether or not they like it and if I should be penalised in some way, by higher insurance premiums or fined for buying Tesco Value Pot Noodles or something unhealthy. Speed cameras excepted of course.

We are the most watched country in the world, I think, I can't remember, but I'm not happy about all that either really, but it's here and there's chuff all anyone can do to remove it now. But the measures we have got have come in through small things here and there, a few people saying they don't mind becomes the Govt saying ' Our research shows people are generally in favour of this measure' and so another freedom or aspect of privacy is lost. So for me, I'd rather not have any new idea that could be taken further by whoever wants to implement it for their own gains, while claiming we are in favour of it.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

they can, if they want, use the normal traffic cameras to work out speed etc...

there is a massive amount of data being collected and used for and against us right at this moment in time...

not nice, and a terrible way to live, but as you say, it will never go away, and its only going to get worse....

:thumb:


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## WP-UK (Apr 24, 2011)

I have looked into this before to help lower insurance but 
a) I didn't find it saved me much money at all 
b) I didn't want all the restrictions


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## uruk hai (Apr 5, 2009)

Its all very well for me to sit here and say "no way, I don't want to be spied on" but to be honest if it was the difference between being able to afford insurance or not then I would have it, simple as that !


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## Russ and his BM (Jan 1, 2008)

millns84 said:


> I had a box fitted in December, £804 a year vs Admiral's "best" offer of £1074, or £940 for a 10 month premium (bearing in mind last year's was £670!!)
> 
> Not a massive fan of having it there. Stuck behind old people doing 20mph in a 30mph zone and thinking twice about overtaking as the "safe" way would exceed 30mph slightly


You're allowed to exceed the speed limit when passing other road users - it minimises the time you spend on the wrong side of the road. Once the manoeuvre is complete, you slow down to an appropriate speed, no higher than the limit. Or that's what I thought the book says, officer!


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## MattDuffy88 (Apr 6, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> No.
> 
> Plain and simple mate.
> 
> Its one thing i enjoy and its cars be it driving, watching motorsport etc and i'm not being dictated to when i can and cannot drive my car.


+1, also I don't fancy the idea of some muppet chopping into/modifying my cars loom and potentially causing other problems in doing so.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Insurers did not sit around discussing how to give people cheaper insurance. If these got accepted as standard insurers will end up better off. And giving into something like this is the thin edge of the wedge......promise savings, better protection if someone hit you in an accident etc....how long before they use it to enforce speed limits by schools.........Pay more for city centre access.......then you're taxed by the mile...or charged extra for using the car during rush hour.....and sent speeding tickets from the data collected.

Give up a little of your privacy/personal data and watch it snowball over the next 15 years into something nobody wanted at the outset!

Or the system interfering with the car...it's just a stand alone GPRS/cellular/accelerometer, it won't interfere with anything. Our work now has these in all work trucks, every 'incident' is reported (speeding, hash braking, swerving etc) and reported each month...the guys started having competition to get to the top of the list :wall:

They looked at putting them into personally owned cars (work provide a car allowance instead of a company car)...the day that happens is the day I give up a sizeable benifit!


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## kh904 (Dec 18, 2006)

Bero said:


> how long before they use it to enforce speed limits by schools.........Pay more for city centre access.......then you're taxed by the mile...or charged extra for using the car during rush hour.....and sent speeding tickets from the data collected.


Ultimately I think the black boxes are just a stepping stone for the above (charged by how much and when you use your car)!

Obviously everyone can guess where i stand on this, it's big brother taking away more of your privacy and taking more control of your life.

People are conditioned that being tracked is a good thing (whether for financial or safety benefits), but imo it will be used to justify more control & implementing more policy.

The end game will result in micro-chipping everyone with your personal details and to do financial transactions (cashless society) - all for justified by saying that it will stop people from avoiding tax evasion, help find missing kids, people & criminals, help reduce terrorism/crime & only people who are entitled to use public services can use them of course 

When this was first mentioned people laughed, now it's becoming a reality!

The black box issue isn't too different from the internet SOPA issue imo, all about the control of information!

Data can be manipulated to say what you want it to say (global warming for example). If you have an accident and the insurance company says that the data suggests you are at fault, will you be entitled to see ALL the data and most importantly will you understand the raw data to make your defense? Who is to say that that data hasn't been manipulated?

Paranoid? Maybe, but the possibility is still there!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I agree....^

Well just look at it this way... came out onto the main road this morning... road was clear in both directions and it's very wide... it was raining a little bit as well...

So being in the XKR... I jumped on the loud pedal, and came out of the junction side ways with the tyres spinning up... had a slide, got it back under control and went to work, with a stupid little grin on my face...

No one was hurt, nothing got damaged... but I wonder IF I had a black box in the car, what, if anything, would be the outcome of that pointless (but fun) 1 minute play....

:driver::driver::driver:

:lol:

:thumb:


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