# Laptops - Why is it so confusing?!



## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

It's laptop upgrade time, the old one is stuck on Windows XP and not even capable of running some basic software now.

As usual, my journey starts on Amazon, however I'm finding it really hard to fully justify the price differences between some of them. It seems that they hike the prices up for next to no reason, and make the model numbers hugely confusing when you try to go to PCWorld/Currys, or try and find a review online.

Basically, the laptop will be running REALLY basic stuff 90% of the time, just internet and PC browsing since I have a good PC at home, someone else would be using it.

I'm a photographer and I would need it for when I go away, purely just to upload the photos to so that they're backed up and do some simpler tasks on Lightroom/Photoshop.

It would NEVER be used for gaming or anything similar, Photoshop would be the most resource-hogging application it would need.

I'm currently looking at this, I've had good dealings with Amazon in the past, and I can't really find any reason that it wouldn't be capable of doing what I need. (It'd be the 8GB, £359.99 model.)






I have a budget of about £500 for it, but I can't really see anything nearer the upper end of the range that is justifying the increase.

Any feedback is appreciated!


----------



## danwel (Feb 18, 2007)

Was just about to post a similar thread for my mum as she is after a windows 8 specced laptop so will keep an eye on this thread


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Try www.laptopsdirect.co.uk

Just get the cheapest you like with a coreI3 processor.

The only thing id say about the Lenovo above (which will be fine) is that it has a 3rd gen processor (corei3). The 4th gen has been out over a year and although the 3rd is more than enough for speed, 4th gens have a noticeably better battery life which you might find useful.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Forgot to.mention. A 4th gen is identified by the processor having a 4 at the beginning.

So coreI3 4350, 3rd gen has a 3, 3950 etc.

Sticking with 3rd gen for prices sake, we've sold lots of these and are good quality.

http://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/Tosh...ndows_8.1_Laptop__PSCG7E-02C041EN/version.asp


----------



## hobbs182 (Jul 10, 2013)

Don't get anything below a dual core


----------



## stuartr (Mar 11, 2014)

Personally I would start with the i5... i7 is overkill but if you are planning on using photoshop and keeping it for years you'll love the i5 better in the long term.


----------



## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

The one you've linked is spot on for the money and mire than enough for what you'll be using it for dan ...

I'd personally steer clear of the toshiba, half the memory, half the ram and generally cheap feeling units imo


----------



## danwel (Feb 18, 2007)

On another forum someone else mentioned about staying clear of Toshiba too.
Here is one that has cought my eye

http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/dell-inspiron-15-laptop-166-47-delivered-from-dell-1955263


----------



## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

danwel said:


> On another forum someone else mentioned about staying clear of Toshiba too.
> Here is one that has cought my eye
> 
> http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/dell-inspiron-15-laptop-166-47-delivered-from-dell-1955263


Hmm, specs about the same as toshiba at a quick glance

I've had Lenovo before and my next laptop will be a Lenovo when the time comes too


----------



## Saj (Dec 24, 2012)

From what you described I reckon that Lenovo is spot on. I have had a Lenovo for almost 2 years, solid piece of kit and will defo getting a lenovo next time!


----------



## hobbs182 (Jul 10, 2013)

^ Can't go wrong with lenovos 

I sell the tosh satellite pro series at work and 99% of them feel plasticky and cheap...


----------



## danwel (Feb 18, 2007)

Great, the chuffing thing is out of stock now just as i was about to order!!!


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

The tosh is £100 cheaper so hardly a comparison.

Sell thousands of laptops a year so play with many. None are 'bad', just some are better than others.

I would personally get the Toshiba and spend part of the £100+ I'd saved on an SSD which would make it fly.


----------



## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

ardandy said:


> The tosh is £100 cheaper so hardly a comparison.
> 
> Sell thousands of laptops a year so play with many. None are 'bad', just some are better than others.
> 
> I would personally get the Toshiba and spend part of the £100+ I'd saved on an SSD which would make it fly.


It's £100 cheaper if you exchange your old one you mean ...


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Which he has.


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

I've got the Lenovo in the initial link on my fleet of lab PCs... I bought a fleet of laptops for my science lab in school as I wasn't keen on the old Dells (old 1Gb RAM Core 2 Duo Lattitudes running Win7 very slowly), personally I used Amazon Warehouse Deals for most of the purchases and got a couple of used ThinkPads from a local supplier.

The Lenovo I got is Core i3, Sandybridge architecture which is fine for most general computing tasks and I got it for £190 delivered from Warehouse deals... trouble is you get no warranty as they are technically used, but the machine is spotless and like-new and you have 30-day return if you find you're not keen. Worth a shout in my opinion, have got a few machines from there. 

With that Lenovo, there are reports of wi-fi issues, I found this to be a driver issue and installed new drivers and the problem of not finding wireless or wireless drop-off went away - interestingly, it was never a problem within Ubuntu 12 LTS or 14 LTS (all my computers are dual-boot Windows and Ubuntu) so it is definitely a software glitch but be aware of it.

I also have the earlier version of that Lenovo, same processor and spec and a G500 with Celeron 1000M dual core processor which again is fine for general tasks but I wouldn't be doing intensive tasks such as Photoshop with it.

I have one of the Toshibas mentioned above as well, but with the dual-core Pentium processor (again, sub £200 from Amazon Warehouse) and 6Gb RAM and 500Gb HD. Feels a little cheaper than the Lenovo, especially the keyboard but also seems functional as well and isn't falling apart when used by me and pupils in the lab. 

I also have 2 Sony Vaio machines, one Core i3 and one Pentium and for feel these would be my favourite machines but they are more expensive, probably because they have the word Sony on them... many report issues with Vaios, I have had a few and never a problem, even on a very old one that soldiers away as an instrument controller in my lab... trouble is they are just that bit more expensive.

Lenovo are good, but the Ideapads I find do not feel anywhere near as robust as the Thinkpads that hark back to the IBM design. I have a Thinkpad Core i5 (Sandybridge) and it feels indestructible, my friend an older Centrino powered Thinkpad which has been bullet prood for many years of service. Thinkpads, for me, have a deserved reputation and I haven't found fault with the ones I have over years of use. I did, however, have an Ideapad Core i5 fail (motherboard short, turns out to be a common fault with Z570 Ideapads) which inspires less confidence in them for me... I believe this has been addressed on the Z500 series Ideapads, hopefully as I have Haswell generation i5 one with 8Gb RAM and 1TB HDisk which flies through my Adobe suite work (Photoshop, In Design and Premiere)...


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Btw, if dual-booting machines tempt you and you have Windows 8.1, make sure you do the partioning yourself - Windows 8 and Ubuntu "don't get on" like Windows 7 and Ubuntu as I found out following the same install procedures and then had to backtrack with a Windows recovery disk... good instructions for how to do this online though, and personally I am big fan of Ubuntu for many tasks I do as there are a lot of good software apps for school use :thumb:


----------



## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

Helpful responses here chaps, thank you.

4GB of RAM on the Toshiba is a bit alarming for me too, I'd much prefer 8. If I was to get an SSD and a RAM upgrade it already starts going up.

I am tempted by the SSD upgrade though, how easy are these to fit to laptops?

Got a feeling I might end up "downgrading" to Windows 7. I've been on it since it came out and love it, but hearing more and more bad things about 8/8.1.

I actually ordered the Dell for my Mum's partner as he needed one too, but I doubt it'd be sufficient for my needs.

Massively tempted by the Lenovo, but going to have another look around tonight. If anyone has any other direct links for some great deals let me know.

Oh, by the way, the old laptop is running XP, and these 'trade-in' deals don't seem to allow that.


----------



## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

Alternatively, this seems to be a good deal, tight end of the budget but would it be more worthwhile?


----------



## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Both very good but as you say, it's the price 

Why don't you go to pc world, See what you like, then find the cheapest place online

That's what I do


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

I'm sorry but even playing Civ V game at full it only uses 2gb ram (3gb total). 

Whether you have 4GB or 16GB wont change anything for what you're doing. If you don't reach the max you have getting more RAM does practically nothing. An SSD changes everything. It'll be lighting compared with a normal HD. 

Lenovo will be fine and a bit better than the tosh but in real life you wont tell, I promise you. 15 years of IT consulting etc gives you a fair idea. 

Don't get caught up in bar room stats.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

http://www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/NX.M8EEK.031-Acer-Aspire-E1-572_1504495.html


----------



## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Acer feel tacky too imo


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Fords feel tacky to Mercedes but people still buy them. 

For around £35-£50 you can usually extend the manufacturers warranty to 3 years so if it's under warranty for 3years then who cares.

I agree acers are more of a budget brand but they all run the same OS and unless you're going to throw it around who cares. Any faults will be covered under warranty so reliability is less relevant. 

Ironically most of the laptops that are still going past 6-7 years in a work environment are acers! Tosh for us are 0.1% more reliable than Lenovo and the most reliable we sell (based on our return figures over 5 years) are Asus.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Look, porn streams the same on any brand!


----------



## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

ardandy said:


> I'm sorry but even playing Civ V game at full it only uses 2gb ram (3gb total).
> 
> Whether you have 4GB or 16GB wont change anything for what you're doing. If you don't reach the max you have getting more RAM does practically nothing. An SSD changes everything. It'll be lighting compared with a normal HD.
> 
> ...


Fair comment, however am I not wrong in thinking that when extracting large files using Lightroom/PS that it's actually using all that it can from the computer? If I could speed that up it'd be a huge advantage.

For example, I just extracted 74 files from a shoot, CPU load was at 100% and RAM was similar during extraction.

Whilst I do agree that an SSD helps hugely (I have one in the desktop) I'd rather pay a bit more for the extra speed, and also to make it as future-proof as possible. Seems silly to spend about £400 when I could get a better one for £500 which would potentially last to see another OS or two comfortably.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Windows 8 has less load than 7 so future OS (W9) shouldn't be a problem. 

For what you've just mentioned above an SSD (uber cheap at mo) and processor will be main bottlenecks. ram is cheap(circa £35-£40) and upgradable at anytime in its life so can be done when or if necessary.

Go for i5 4th gen and SSD. 8GB Ram I'd put on the want list as opposed to need list.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Typical lifespan of modern Laptops (especially with new products coming out like SSD, much better battery life etc) is 3 years in my experience, much like a car. There's nothing wrong with your old one but feel a new one would be beneficial is what I hear the most. 

Spend £400 every 3 years rather than £500 over 4 if that makes sense as tech moves on that quickly. It's all down to budget and your preference but I'll repeat that again like cars there's no 'Bad' ones but good and very good etc.


----------



## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Lol typical sales talk :lol:


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

I don't work in sales, I install servers and workstations etc.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

http://www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/MB82DUK-Lenovo-B5400_1496563.html

For the Lenovo lovers.

Stick an SSD I that and it should fly and still be under budget.


----------



## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

ardandy said:


> Typical lifespan of modern Laptops (especially with new products coming out like SSD, much better battery life etc) is 3 years in my experience, much like a car. There's nothing wrong with your old one but feel a new one would be beneficial is what I hear the most.
> 
> Spend £400 every 3 years rather than £500 over 4 if that makes sense as tech moves on that quickly. It's all down to budget and your preference but I'll repeat that again like cars there's no 'Bad' ones but good and very good etc.


Definitely makes sense.

Can I get your opinion on this setup then:
Lenovo G510 15.6-inch Laptop - Black (Intel Core i7-4700QM 2.4GHz, 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD, Intel Integrated Graphics, DVDRW, Windows 8.1 Home Premium): Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

I'll take your advice and go with the i5, 4GB model.

I get what you're saying about brand, but I've had an Acer and not a huge fan, I'd much rather try out Lenovo based on what I've read.

It seems a waste to just be binning the 1TB HDD in it, I don't suppose there's any way of fitting an SSD as a main drive and keeping the 1TB?


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

This may be worth stretching for as the HD screen maybe beneficial to you?

Can do SSD when funds allow?

edit: http://www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/59416301-Lenovo-Z50_1585699.html


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

bildo said:


> Definitely makes sense.
> 
> Can I get your opinion on this setup then:
> Lenovo G510 15.6-inch Laptop - Black (Intel Core i7-4700QM 2.4GHz, 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD, Intel Integrated Graphics, DVDRW, Windows 8.1 Home Premium): Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories
> ...


Make sure you get the one that def fits in whichever laptop you buy but this sort of thing is worth it. 2nd Hard Disk Drive Caddy for Ultrabay Slim Optical Bay PATA (IDE) for IBM Lenovo Thinkpad T40, T40p, T41, T41p, T42, T42p, T43, T43p, T60, T60p, T61, T61p, Z60t, Z61t, Z61p, X4 UltraBase, ThinkPad X4 Dock, X6 UltraBase, X6 UltraBase: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories


----------



## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

ardandy said:


> This may be worth stretching for as the HD screen maybe beneficial to you?
> 
> Can do SSD when funds allow?
> 
> edit: http://www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/59416301-Lenovo-Z50_1585699.html


HD screen would definitely be beneficial, one thing I noticed when comparing the previous two we both mentioned.

I do like the sound of this, I can't find any 'real' reviews for it online though, is it possibly known by a different name or is it just really new?


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

I wouldn't pay too much attention to reviews but one Lenovo is very much like the other inthe same price bracket. 

Plus as with anything online you can send it back within 2weeks for any reason at all so if you really didn't like it send it back.


----------



## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

ardandy said:


> I wouldn't pay too much attention to reviews but one Lenovo is very much like the other inthe same price bracket.
> 
> Plus as with anything online you can send it back within 2weeks for any reason at all so if you really didn't like it send it back.


Sounds fair...

I'm thinking of going with the Z50 then, looks to tick pretty much every box I think!

Nothing else you can think of that might be better? Also, are this saveonlaptops firm good? I've not heard of them until now.

Cheers for the help!


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

bildo said:


> HD screen would definitely be beneficial, one thing I noticed when comparing the previous two we both mentioned.
> 
> I do like the sound of this, I can't find any 'real' reviews for it online though, is it possibly known by a different name or is it just really new?


That is close to the model I have - slightly different processor for me but same RAM and HDisk... one thing though is I have dedicated graphics - basic Geforce, and only 1 Gb but for me it makes a difference in photoshop and when doing 3D work in Sony Vegas. You can get better dedicated graphics from Nvidia GTX *but* I'd only really be looking down that line for gaming or very serious graphics computation...

The Z500 is a new version of the Z570 in some ways, thinner and lighter and the keyboard is much nicer now with smaller travel keys that make for quieter and easier typing for me. I have that particular computer in three different specs actually, two Core-i3 for my pupils in the lab and my own Core-i5 

Is it a good choice? I would say so, the ones I have are all under one year old so longevity I cannot comment on but they serve me and my pupils very well so far.


----------



## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

Cheers Dave. I went ahead with the Z50, going to give it a try and hope it's a winner! 

Will be interesting to put it alongside the £169 Dell I've got coming too, ugh.. I dread to think how much bloatware I'm going to deal with having two brand new computers!


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

I spend a good while removing all the things I don't want from computers  Windows 8.1 gets a bad press, I find if you take time to learn how to use it, its a perfectly slick operating system... just its different and people don't like change. 

I also keep Ubuntu (now 14 LTS) on all my computers - there are software apps for that which I use all the time, plus I write a lot of my course nots for older pupils using LaTeX (with LyX front end) and this is already pretty much built in to Ubuntu. Its also free


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

First thing to do I a full reinstall. Quicker than removing stuff and guaranteed to be fresh!


----------



## Joe pd (Dec 2, 2009)

If you're buying anything use scan. They've never failed me since i first started using a computer


----------



## N3llyboy (May 15, 2014)

Agreed, used scan loads over the years. I find it easier to phone em up than use the online ordering thing.


----------

