# MacBook questions before I order!!!



## james_19742000

Have pretty much made my mind up that I will be ordering a MacBook Pro, just a few questions though before I take the plunge!

Can't decide between 13 or 15 inch screen, will I regret getting a 13 instead of a 15 or is 13 more than adequate?

I5 or i7? Huge difference between the two worth the extra for an i7?

Normal hard drive os SSD? I have a 2tb network drive at home so is the smaller capacity SSD be a problem as I store most stuff on my network drive?

iCloud, does it stay standard free service or do they upgrade you to a higher capacity for free?

Can you have windows work on a partition on it otherwise I will have to keep my windows laptop as well!

Can you mirror through Apple TV?

Overall I think I am making the right move but they are expensive so need to make the right choices!!

Thanks


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## smicher1

I bought one for my Daughter and the 13" was my preference. Easily big enough without the extra bulk, the screen image is so sharp, it's perfect IMO. 

Smaller screen, faster processor - i7 ftw!


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## willwander

Most of the choices I'm afraid are up to you and what you prefer and it's intended use, both screens are lovely, I would go for i7 as I think its always best to max out a laptop, ssd will make a big difference to speed but you can always upgrade later, yes you can duel boot to windows or use parallels or similar to run windows but you will need to buy a copy of windows license. MacBooks are lovely which ever you decide it will be worth it.


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## willwander

Btw if you are going to have a copy of windows on there too you will need about 60gb of space for windows so if you go down ssd route bear that in mind. You can actually swap out the cd player for an extra hard disk at a later date


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## MattJ10

After working for Apple over the summer period I would recommend the MacBook Air 13" with the highest SSD Drive if you have deep pockets. 

Unless your doing high-end video editing you won't need the i7. 

If you want me to help you out with your purchase I can push you in the right direction, I still have my contacts and they can put it through as a business user and get you abit of money off hopefully. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## willwander

Personally I wouldn't touch a MacBook air, It's one of the worst products in the entire mac range, but that's just me I guess. I'd stick with ya MacBook pro, i7, if you want to save a bit of dosh first thing I would drop is the ssd and just get a hdd


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## bjarvis2785

Depends on budget - but if you're considering all these options it sounds like there isn't a fixed budget as such?

I personally went for a Retina MBP when it was first launched. Never looked back.
I went for the 15" 2.3Ghz i7, 256GB SSD, and maxed out the RAM at 16GB.

Superbly fast machine, and the screen is out of this world. I'd never go back to a standard HDD, especially if you already have a NAS.


One thing i would say is that if you're going for a Retina, i wouldn't bother with the 13". It was a bit of a let down (according to majority of online sources and people i know) in terms of performance - this is of course compared to the 15" version, so would still be much better than most Windows based machines available.


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## MattJ10

willwander said:


> Personally I wouldn't touch a MacBook air, It's one of the worst products in the entire mac range, but that's just me I guess. I'd stick with ya MacBook pro, i7, if you want to save a bit of dosh first thing I would drop is the ssd and just get a hdd


Have you ever used a MacBook Air?

Drop the i7 more than SSD.

Also ask yourself would you NEED a faster processor?? It's a big jump in money but then again i'm not buying it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Guitarjon

I'm more than happy with my 13. It's still big enough. 

Unless your into gaming and video editing etc there is no need for faster processor. I still have a 2006 mac book ( the white ones) and for web browsing, using iTunes, word processing daily its more than adequate.


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## james_19742000

Thanks for the replies chaps!

Not really a case of no fixed budget more a case of sacrificing certain things for others I.e. 15" screen extra cost but probably drop the i7 for example, having seen the retina screen this morning it makes me really want it but do I want to trade other things for it?

As for use mainly web, mail, photos, bit of video, the main user of the network drive etc, for simple web browsing etc we have iPads it just seems logical to have a mac as opposed to another windows based laptop, it would be the primary computer in the house.

Just would be nice to have a full flowing IT set of stuff that all syncs with each other etc and the MacBook is the last piece of the puzzle as it were, decisions, decisions!!

Thanks for the advice so far


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## willwander

MattJ10 said:


> Have you ever used a MacBook Air?
> ...


Yep, nice machine for some but..,probably the only apple product I would not recommend. Neither an iPad nor a serious laptop, no network port or cd drives me nuts, difficult to expand, poor resale value, display is not great neither is graphics, just my opinion, good for the niche market they fill but it is a small and shrinking niche


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## willwander

Btw you can always upgrade to a ssd drive at a layer date, you can not upgrade from a i5 to an i7 once it's bought, you are likely to extend its useful life and get higher resale, just my opinion, choice is yours


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## DW58

Personally I'd suggest going for the i7, I did and I've no regrets. If budget isn't a constraint, I'd go the Full Monty as You can't upgrade much of it later. I'm a big believer in the Mac experience and believe that if you can afford it to go for the top-end options.

I started with a Hard Disk and added an SSD later, if you go solely SSD your rather stuck with it.


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## RP84

have a look at the refurb machines on the apple website.. Can save quite a bit


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## LeadFarmer

James, sending you a PM


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## HeavenlyDetail

Pm me if you want a new Macbook Pro.


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## LeadFarmer

Heres my MacBook 15" spec










As for screen size, consider if you are going to be carrying your macbook about from one place to another, or will it just sit at home? Buy the highest spec you can afford. If you get the non-retina (as I did) then you can always swap over to SSD later, or remove the optical drive and add more memory.

Dont try and compare macbooks with pc's. MacBooks are just brilliant to work on and I think that even though you can get a higher spec windows laptop for less money, the way Apples products are designed means their software works really well and may work equivalent to a higher spec windows laptop.

Once youve accepted the high price, everything else is just a joy. And I got lots of help from DW members in this thread


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## james_death

More than happy with the 13".

No need for solid state disc go for capacity instead.

Im just as happy on the 13" Pro as i am right now on the 21" Imac.

My Imac came from the refurb store and it has been known that you get an un used fully sealed Boxed Unit never used.

This is because apple never wastes time opening units up to upgrade when upgraded models come out they shunt the older stock even just a week old into the refurb store.


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## james_19742000

The Mac will be based at home, I have ipads etc that I take around with me when I need to, having thought about it I do need the optical drive, so that means non-retina, just need to decide between 13 and 15" screen now, something drawing me towards the 15" obviously, but quite like the fact that the 13" would be more compact, I have Apple TV so I presume if I needed it larger etc then I can mirror on to my home tv?

I do need a Windows based machine as well, as a programme I use to update a sign I use is will only work on a Windows machine, so I would get a small cheap used netbook for that, that would be perfect as it would be a handy size to use for updating the LED sign, which I have to take with me to where the sign is based to update it.

My current laptop a Dell XPS would be sold to offset some of the cost.

Just need to make my mind up on final specs then hopefully I can make a decision, then just need to justify it to SWMBO!!!


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## DW58

james_19742000 said:


> then just need to justify it to SWMBO!!!


Clearly the most difficult part of the process is yet to come if mine is anything to go by - or you could do it my way and tell her afterwards.


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## james_19742000

DW58 said:


> Clearly the most difficult part of the process is yet to come if mine is anything to go by - or you could do it my way and tell her afterwards.


Yes thts what usually happens here too!


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## Gizmo68

Is there any reason why you need it to be a laptop then, if it will be based at home?

From what you have said so far, to me it would be (and indeed was) a 27” iMac.


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## james_19742000

Gizmo68 said:


> Is there any reason why you need it to be a laptop then, if it will be based at home?
> 
> From what you have said so far, to me it would be (and indeed was) a 27" iMac.


Space, that's all, we used to have a computer on a desk etc but it was a pain and took up space, a laptop can fold and be put away easily also get less moaning from SWMBO that way  but you are right an iMac would be a good idea.


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## Gizmo68

If you already have a desk then the iMac actually takes up less space than a macbook would (apart from the screen being much wider (21.5” / 27” compared to 13” / 15”)

My 27” iMac (with the keyboard in front of it) has less depth than my 15” Dell laptop it replaced! 
(The front of the iMac screen is just 6.5” away from the wall)

The ONLY time I would ever go back to a laptop is if I need it to be portable or had no desk for an iMac to sit on.

Laptops are great - I have been using them for the last 13+ years, but they are a compromise… especially compared to a AIO like the iMac.


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## DW58

Gizmo68 said:


> If you already have a desk then the iMac actually takes up less space than a macbook would (apart from the screen being much wider (21.5" / 27" compared to 13" / 15")
> 
> My 27" iMac (with the keyboard in front of it) has less depth than my 15" Dell laptop it replaced!
> (The front of the iMac screen is just 6.5" away from the wall)
> 
> The ONLY time I would ever go back to a laptop is if I need it to be portable or had no desk for an iMac to sit on.
> 
> Laptops are great - I have been using them for the last 13+ years, but they are a compromise… especially compared to a AIO like the iMac.


You're talking footprint and little else - the iMac is very similar to a MacBook in terms of internals, especially the latest incarnation which doesn't even have the optical drive of the previous models. I examined the latest iMacs on Boxing Day when collecting my iPad 4, I was amazed at how thin they are, barely 1cm thick around the edges.

Yes, the iMac takes up little desk space, but once you factor in the keyboard it's pretty academic really. For desk use the iMac definitely wins because of the bigger display, but it loses on versatility.

I guess I've got it both ways as I have the Mac 27" Thunderbolt Display and can if I wish use my MacBook Pro closed in my TwelveSouth stand thus giving me an iMac style desktop footprint.

Decisions, decisions ... ... ...


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## Ebbe J

I have a 13" MBP with i7, 8 gb RAM and 128GB SSD, from 2011. I would never go back to normal HDs - of course, you need one for storage, but get an external drive for that. The HDs are what makes most computers slow these days anyway, so it's better to spend the money on a fast SSD than a fast processor.

My father just picked up a 13" Retina, very fast and light unit. Screen is better than it is on my normal MBP, but I'm happy with mine as I also have the 27" iMac. 

Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## Gizmo68

Yes whilst the new iMac looks great side on… so it looks better for everyone BUT the user they have had to compromise on the lack of an optical drive and slower HDD to the previous one.

I actually seriously considered selling my 3 week old iMac for the new (thin) model, until I saw the specs of it… I am glad I bought mine just before the new one was released now.

My iMac still takes up less depth than my 15” laptop, even with the keyboard in front of the iMac, due to the keyboard bing so compact.

Yes the macbook is more versatile, but the OP stated he does not need the portability of it as he has iPads and his main reason for not considering the iMac was simply space.

I just don’t see the point of paying a premium for something that will not be quite as good (for his needs)


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## DW58

Many things look better in retrospect. My set-up is 15" MBP with 16Gb RAM plus 250Gb SSD and 750Gb HDD. This is used in conjunction with the 27" TBD when at home. I also have an iPad 4 (32Gb/Cellular - also have iPad 2 64Gb/3G). Had I known in late 2011 what I know now I would probably have bought a 27" top-spec i7 iMac and an 11" MacBook Air, but in reality I'm very happy with the set-up I have.

I had been rather sceptical about Retina displays until getting my iPad 4 - they are stunning.


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## james_19742000

Unfortunately, a desk based computer is out of the question, SWMBO threw the desk out!!! Besides, whilst the computer would be mainly a home based unit, the flexibility to take it out and about when needed would be handy.

I had sort of made my mind up that I was going to go non-retina as I needed the optical drive, but thinking about it, how easy is it to live without the optical drive, I suppose most things can be done on memory sticks etc these days, and if I really needed something on a disc I could use my kids laptop I suppose?

So this means possibly Retina! As I know what I would be like, as much as I would be happy I would be wishing I had bought a Retina model, so my train of thought is the MC975B/A but I am just getting scared at how much it is, I dont doubt that its an awesome unit, but still £1800!!! So my ther thought would be MD212B/A but if you are spending that sort of money, does an extra £300 really make that much difference, if I was to buy one of these it would be a computer to last a good few years, I would be looking at getting a minimum of 4 years out of it, before it was sold or passed down the family!

REally getting stressed with this all now!!!


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## purplechris

james_19742000 said:


> Unfortunately, a desk based computer is out of the question, SWMBO threw the desk out!!! Besides, whilst the computer would be mainly a home based unit, the flexibility to take it out and about when needed would be handy.
> 
> I had sort of made my mind up that I was going to go non-retina as I needed the optical drive, but thinking about it, how easy is it to live without the optical drive, I suppose most things can be done on memory sticks etc these days, and if I really needed something on a disc I could use my kids laptop I suppose?
> 
> So this means possibly Retina! As I know what I would be like, as much as I would be happy I would be wishing I had bought a Retina model, so my train of thought is the MC975B/A but I am just getting scared at how much it is, I dont doubt that its an awesome unit, but still £1800!!! So my ther thought would be MD212B/A but if you are spending that sort of money, does an extra £300 really make that much difference, if I was to buy one of these it would be a computer to last a good few years, I would be looking at getting a minimum of 4 years out of it, before it was sold or passed down the family!
> 
> REally getting stressed with this all now!!!


None retina i7 500gb optical is what I have but I got with 4gb and bought 16gb from crucial. I'm a web and video designer and does anything I throw at it with speed and ram to spare


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## robertdon777

Right, get back to basics... No need to spend close to 2k for what you've described what you need it for.

A 3k set of golf clubs won't make a rubbish golfer better etc.

Look and list what you are going to use it for, pic a spec that MEETS those needs and then treat yourself in ONE area

Personally I'd choose lower spec (still far more than adequate) and choose a bigger screen and save yourself £500 for a nice 2 night break in a nice hotel for you and the Mrs


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## Buck

You can go stir crazy with speccing IT equipment.

Retina is a luxury but compromises as you have said with the optical drive but also, inability to upgrade.

This one is a good spec and will do everything you throw at it

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/FD104B/A/refurbished-macbook-pro-26ghz-quad-core-intel-i7

That's saving you £270 too!

Whatever you go for you just have to accept that spec otherwise you will forever beat yourself up that you should have...should have...etc.

I currently have a 17" MBP and when it is time to replace I will most likely go for something very similar to the one I posted above and then add an external display for when I'm stuck at my desk (luckily wifey hasn't thrown mine out!! :lol


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## DW58

I totally agree with what Buck says ^ above ^ - that's an excellent spec and price. The only thing I'd prefer is the hi-res/anti-glare display, but it's hardly worth it for that kind of bargain.


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## Stumper

If you're ordering an MBP, use the Higher Education link here:

http://store.apple.com/uk_edu_5000737/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro

I used it and got mine for £1074 rather than the retail price of £1249. I also got the AppleCare extended warranty for £48 rather than the £199 retail price 
I'm not in higher education but they never asked anything about it and mine arrived this morning!

I went for the i7 over the i5 as I do some HD video editing so I thought the extra processing power would help. It's currently got 8Gb ram but I'll upgrade to 16Gb at some point using Crucial memory as its loads cheaper than the Apple stuff. I might also add an SSD in place of the optical drive at some point but I'll see how I get on with it first.


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## HeavenlyDetail

Ive heard through the grapevine that will all be changing very very soon along with warranty issues regarding EDU machines for non EDU purchasers.


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## Stumper

HeavenlyDetail said:


> Ive heard through the grapevine that will all be changing very very soon along with warranty issues regarding EDU machines for non EDU purchasers.


All the more reason to use the discount while you still can!


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## DW58

Stumper said:


> If you're ordering an MBP, use the Higher Education link here:
> 
> http://store.apple.com/uk_edu_5000737/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro
> 
> I used it and got mine for £1074 rather than the retail price of £1249. I also got the AppleCare extended warranty for £48 rather than the £199 retail price
> I'm not in higher education but they never asked anything about it and mine arrived this morning!
> 
> I went for the i7 over the i5 as I do some HD video editing so I thought the extra processing power would help. It's currently got 8Gb ram but I'll upgrade to 16Gb at some point using Crucial memory as its loads cheaper than the Apple stuff. I might also add an SSD in place of the optical drive at some point but I'll see how I get on with it first.





Stumper said:


> All the more reason to use the discount while you still can!


:wall:

Here's hoping those who abuse the academic discount scheme without proper entitlement haven't stuffed it for the genuine users 



HeavenlyDetail said:


> Ive heard through the grapevine that will all be changing very very soon along with warranty issues regarding EDU machines for non EDU purchasers.


Wouldn't surprise me in light of the above. When we bought on Academic discount for our son at the Aberdeen Apple Store we had to provide proper evidence of his entitlement


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## willwander

EDU discount is widely abused by all and sundry, I know many people who have used it and none of them have been challenged. 
It wouldn't surprise me if there is a crack down at some point.... obviously I couldn't possibly recommend it to none genuine claimants


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## HeavenlyDetail

I think if and when the crackdown comes then when a problem arises with the machine in question that will be the time when the credentials of the purchase will come into place. Im sure Apple are fully aware of whats happening and have something being put into place.


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## PugIain

crAPPLE website said:


> Refurbished MacBook Pro 2.6GHz Quad-core Intel i7
> 
> £1,529.00


For a second hand laptop!
If it isnt second hand/damaged why would it need refurbishing?
I just bought some bits from Amazon, I didn't need to fix those.....
I bought a funny mug from the pound shop earlier, that doesnt need "refurbishing" either..



crAPPLE website said:


> Free Delivery


Ah, well that makes it alright then.


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## james_death

Most refurbs are ex display but as apple does not waste time upgrading older stock they shove in the refurb center.

The ipod touch refurbs get brand new battery and metal casing.


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## bjarvis2785

I'm not sure on whether you've made a decision or not yet, but if IMO if you have the money available to purchase the Retina version please do so!
As i previously stated, i bought one on release and it's a fantastic device.

RE your concerns over the optical drive.
I genuinely can't remember the last time i used a CD/DVD in a laptop or PC.

If for some reason you do need to use one though, you mentioned your son has a laptop. You can actually use the drive in his machine remotely from your Mac.
Failing that grab a cheap external drive off ebay, but as i said, i honestly can't remember the last time i used one.

The lack of 'upgradability' could be an issue, but seriously, a machine of this spec won't need upgrading anytime soon!
That's one of the biggest justifications when buying a Mac IMO - they last so much longer than a 'standard' laptop.

Get yourself to an Apple store and just check out the Retina MBP. i mean properly, pic it up, fold it, look around it, use it. You know straight away it's a premium product and you know where you're money is going.

Obviously, there are ways to get them cheaper (as mentioned previously in this thread) if you're that way inclined. I know plenty of people who have used the HE store with no detriment.
Don't forget Quidco too


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## LeadFarmer

And I applied for a Capital One cash back credit card for when I bought mine, knocked a further £100 off the purchase price.


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## james_19742000

Still not decided in all honesty, I just keep going round in circles, one minute I think yes I want the Retina, next thing I think no, why do I need it, I then think that I like the idea of a small SSD as I have a 2TB netowrk drive, but then there is something that says a 750gb normal drive is more flexible than a SSD! But probably not if you know what I mean! Then screen size, my current laptop is a 15.6" screen, so will a drop to 13" be a big drop, having read some peoples reviews they say it doesnt matter, however, I feel that the 15 would be the preffered option, then if you are going bigger then you might as well go for Retina (in for a penny in for a pound etc), so still al swings and roundabouts at the moment.

Thing is the one that I would ideally have is £1700, as that is 15" with Retina, but then I also think the base 13" model at £999 would still be a huge improvement over what I have at the moment, but can I justify almost double the price?

I will probably be buying from Very, we have an account with them, and its 12 months interest free so that will be where we get it from I expect, they have a few in stock on 3 day delivery, but some of the others are 3 weeks, am happy to wait but coming from someone who has always had Windows based computers that can be had for £300 upwards it does seem a huge leap in money.

I did pop into my local Currys yesterday to look at the Apple display and looked at the 13 and 15" screens both Retina and non-Retina, there is no doubt the Retina is an awesome screen, but the normal screen is still a big leap over a Windows based laptop, there is no doubt its a big leap in quality, so I know thats where the extra money goes, having all Apple products elsewhere in teh house it makes sense as well, just keeps going round and round in my head, just cant decide!!!

Also, I have a fair few bits and bobs on my computer that are MS based i.e. Word, Excel etc documents, will a MBP read and be able to edit those with some already inbuilt software, or woud I need to purchase new software?

Enjoying the Apple choice etc, but its a nightmare making a decision!!!

Thanks for all the help so far, its really appreciated.


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## DW58

james_19742000 said:


> Also, I have a fair few bits and bobs on my computer that are MS based i.e. Word, Excel etc documents, will a MBP read and be able to edit those with some already inbuilt software, or woud I need to purchase new software?


Basically you have two options:


Use "Bootcamp" which is built-in to the Mac system, this gives a dual boot option, i.e. either Windows or Mac OS
Create a "Virtual Machine" using _Parallels, VMFusion_ or other similar software packages, thus allowing you to run Windows within Mac OS, effectively you run one on top of the other or Windows in a Window.
I use the latter with Parallels, although I believe VMFusion may be a better option, neither are expensive.

Avoid using Windows 8 with Mac, it's a pain in the backside - Windows 7 is IMO much better.


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## bjarvis2785

DW58 said:


> Basically you have two options:
> 
> 
> Use "Bootcamp" which is built-in to the Mac system, this gives a dual boot option, i.e. either Windows or Mac OS
> Create a "Virtual Machine" using _Parallels, VMFusion_ or other similar software packages, thus allowing you to run Windows within Mac OS, effectively you run one on top of the other or Windows in a Window.
> I use the latter with Parallels, although I believe VMFusion may be a better option, neither are expensive.
> 
> Avoid using Windows 8 with Mac, it's a pain in the backside - Windows 7 is IMO much better.


Or buy Numbers (excel) and Pages (word). 
Or you could even use a free alternative like Open Office. 
Or you could go all modern and move your files over to Google Docs.

Plenty of ways around this.


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## james_19742000

If Open Office does a good job as an alterntaive to MS Office then I see no reason not to try it, then if need be I can go down the route of finding alternatives.

I dont really want to put windows on it, ideally I want to move across to Apple completely.

Having thought about it I am torn between staying basic and jst having the 13" £999 one that is i5, 4gb ram, 500gb HD and 13 screen, but then as its a machine for a few years I think going to the £1799 15.4", i7, 8gb ram, 256gb SSD, retina screen is the better option!! Decisions, decisions!!!


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## james_19742000

Ok, just thought I would have another browse around!

But, what is the difference between an Air and a Pro?

I am guessing that a Pro, is basically an all singing and dancing unit?

And an Air, something between an ipad and a Pro? Is that correct?

How good is an Air, what are the pro's and con's on them etc?

Just thought it was worth exploring before I make any firm decisions??

Thanks.


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## JB052

I have both the Pro and the Air.

The Air starts up very quickly, its very light and thin so very transportable. But you only really need one if you need to carry a laptop around with you on a regular basis. The disadvantage is that its not possible to upgrade the memory. Looking at your postings you might like one but you don't need one!

The Pro is a great all round machine, from reading your post (you are not a graphic designer or film editor) I would go for a 15" Pro with the normal matt finish screen and the 8GB or higher memory option. It will be much better than anything you have used in the past and hold its value. You can then sell it in a few years time if you wish to upgrade to something even better.


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## james_19742000

This is the thing, I like the idea of the Air, but like the Pro for being an all rounder plus the flexibility for upgrading the Pro, however, the cost of the Pro, might be the issue? Have to think about it all


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## DW58

Have you visited an Apple store, or other dealer where you can try out the models? Even if you're not planning on buying from Apple it's really worth visiting one of their emporiums (or is it emporia) to have hands-on of the different options, i.e. 13"/15"; Retina/non-Retina; MacBook Pro/MacBook Air etc. before you make up your mind.


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## james_19742000

Yes I popped to my local Currys as they have an Apple centre there, had a good look and play with them, was impressed with all of them, they are such a step above a Windows based machine, I then went and had a look at the current generation of Windows machine (8) and yuk, they dont come anywhere near the Apple stuff do they!


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## HeavenlyDetail

The Surface is the biggest pile of sh*te ive ever used. stick with the fruit.


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## LeadFarmer

Remember, if you buy the cheaper lower spec model you will no doubt be happy. But after a few months when you have recovered from the expense of your purchase, you may be thinking 'perhaps I should have paid a litle more and bought the 15" MacBook Pro'.

Im not helping am I!! But I would buy the highest spec model you possibly can. You only want to buy it once, and when you start using it you may find a need for the extra spec. Saving money is important, but 'buyers remorse' is a horrible feeling.


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## Buck

LeadFarmer said:


> Remember, if you buy the cheaper lower spec model you will no doubt be happy. But after a few months when you have recovered from the expense of your purchase, you may be thinking 'perhaps I should have paid a litle more and bought the 15" MacBook Pro'.
> 
> Im not helping am I!! But I would buy the highest spec model you possibly can. You only want to buy it once, and when you start using it you may find a need for the extra spec. Saving money is important, but 'buyers remorse' is a horrible feeling.


Buyers Remorse << this is the truth.

Buy sensibly and you'll be happy with you lot. Buy whimsically and you'll regret it every day.


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## james_19742000

Yes hence why I am exploring all the options, to hopefully select the correct item, however still got to keep an eye on teh budget though :-(


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## james_19742000

Ok having done a lot of thinking etc over the last few weeks (plus ordering a new car for SWMBO) I am in a position of strength with the good lady to get one ordered!

I have to be honest, I am torn between the 13" MBP model (MD102B/A £1249.00) that is i7, 8GB Ram and 750GB HD, which seems a good compromise between the base model 13" unit that is i5, 4gb, 500GB, so for an extra £250, its i7, extra ram and extra HDD space, so I am pretty sure this would do everything I want and more, I have discounted the 13MBP Retina models as they are i5, my only other one I am considering is the 15" MBP Retina model (MC975B/A £1799.00) and whilst there is no doubt this is a high end model I am not sure I can justify an extra £550 being honest! I think I would rather buy the wife an iPad mini as she keeps mentioning them at the minute!

My main question is really, the 13" model I am considering, as it doesnt have Retina, SSD etc will this one still hold its value well? What would it be worth if I considered changing in say 2 years time for arguements sake, also what would the 15" Retina be wroth in 2 years time as well for arguements sake? Only reason I wonder is if the higher product had a considerably higher residula value then it might make me think about the extra investment being worth it?

Still decsions, decisons!!!


----------



## Guitarjon

Get the 13 inch and an ipad mini for the other half. Seriously I love my 7 year old mac book and its outdated spec wise but runs as smooth as any computer I have used. I have no need to change laptops, in fact I just replaced the battery as that has packed in and it was only 20 quid (not official but seems excatly the same and battery life is just as an official one. I figured it was 80 quid less if it isn't any good then I will have to buy a new one. If its ok I haven't lost out. I recon I have got at least another 3 years out of this laptop before it won't run web based stuff.


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## HeavenlyDetail

MacbookPro's always hold their value well. If in the correct place you can sell a £1000 Macbook pro 1 year old online for £800 easily.


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## Z4-35i

With anything IT, just buy what you're happy with and can afford, don't get too concerned with getting the latest and greatest specs. as the market and products change so fast.

Most people never fully use the CPU capabilities of their PCs or laptops, unless you're doing a lot of video processing work, you'll be more than happy with an i5 processor. The amount of RAM will make more of a difference to performance if you like to have lots of applications open at the same time. I'd go for an SSD over HDD for a laptop, with an external large capacity HDD as a backup device, Time Machine is a great OS X app for performing backups.

I have an original MacBook Air from mid 2008 as my main day to day laptop, it's still absolutely fine for web, email and Office apps, it only has a 1.6Ghz Core 2 CPU and 2GB of RAM.


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## DW58

I read yesterday that it's likely that all new MBPs will have Retina displays this year, and that 13" Retina MBPs ought to be available refurbished very soon if not already listed, might be worth a look.


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## LeadFarmer

DW58 said:


> 13" Retina MBPs ought to be available refurbished very soon if not already listed, might be worth a look.


Looks like they are already apearing in the US store..

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/01/17...ook-pro-models-appear-in-apples-online-store/


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## DW58

Yes, that's where I read it.


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## james_19742000

Ok, so I popped down to my local Currys today as they have an Apple area in store, thought I would spend 20 minutes confirming things in my mind, I had started to consider the Air, but after having a godo look at it today it just didnt do it for me, so moved onto the Pro, looked at both the 13" and 15" screen, and I love the smaller screen, which is starnge for me as I usually want the biggest, highest spec etc etc etc! However, having looked and then played with the 13" it just felt so natural to use and overall seemed a really good machine, I check both the Retina and standard version, and whilst there is no doubt the Retina is a superb screen, I just dont think I can justify what is the best part of £500 for the better screen. I still found the normal screen extremely crisp and clear and would certainly be good enough for me.

So, I have pretty much decided its the 13" standard screen for me! So, now to decide between the MD101B/A which is i5, 500gb, 4gb RAM, and is £999, then there is the MD102B/A which is i7, 750gb, 8gb RAM but is £1249.00 I am getting it from Very as they do 12 months interest free and through quidco I can get 3% cashback.

So, I kow the £999 would be enough for my needs, however, the other one is appealing as its slightly higher spec so it woudl probably future proof me for a while, I have no doubt the lower one would be fine for a good while, but is it worth the extra for the i7, extra RAM and HD space?

I know you can upgrade the RAM on these yourself, so if I got the lower one I would upgrade to 8gb RAM, has anyone on here done that? If so, do they ship with 2x2gb modules or is it just 1x4gb module? Any ideas?

Anyway, what do we think chaps? Bear in mind that my main uses are, web, email, some photo work and some video work.

I need to order soon as I am striking whilst the iron is hot as I ordered my wifes new car this morning so I can have a toy myself now while she is in a good mood!!!! 

Thanks.


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## DW58

If I were you I'd go for the i7 model.

Upgrading the memory is a five minute job and very easy to do as long as you have the correct screwdrivers, there are plenty of "how-to" guides on YouTube etc.

Don't whatever you do buy the memory upgrade from Apple themselves as they are very expensive - the correct chips can be bought from Crucial (I have used these) at a fraction of the price. AFAIK Mac normally ship with both memory slots filled with matching pairs (my i7 with 8Gb [2x 4Gb] was upgraded to 16Gb from Crucial [2x 8Gb], so presumably a 4Gb will be 2x 2Gb).


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## LeadFarmer

Same here, mines a 4gb that consists of 2 x 2gb slots..










Apple are happy for you to upgrade the RAM, they even print instructions on how to do it..

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1270?viewlocale=en_US

James, did you compare the glossy and the non glossy anti glare screens?


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## james_19742000

Thanks chaps, glossy and non-glossy? Now you are adding in another thing now, how do I know find out the difference??


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## DW58

Apple offer two screen types on MacBook Pros - the standard glossy one, and the non-reflective version at a slightly higher cost - I have the non-reflective version which I think is worth the extra money, I also opted for the higher-resolution screen (1660 instead of 1440 pixels wide) - however, I'm not sure if these options are available on the 13" MBP any longer, I can't see them mentioned on the AppleStore website.


----------



## LeadFarmer

DW58 said:


> Apple offer two screen types on MacBook Pros - the standard glossy one, and the non-reflective version at a slightly higher cost - I have the non-reflective version which I think is worth the extra money, I also opted for the higher-resolution screen (1660 instead of 1440 pixels wide) - however, I'm not sure if these options are available on the 13" MBP any longer, I can't see them mentioned on the AppleStore website.


As above, and one easy way to tell your looking at an anti-glare screen is they have a silver border around the screen (as mine below), as opposed to the glossy screen having a black border..










Sorry about the Eastenders shot in the background 

Some think the glossy screen makes the image nicer to look at, but it can be reflective if your sat next to a window/light. Personal preference.


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## DW58

I tried both and personally much prefer the anti-glare (as above) plus hi-res. As per my previous, I'm not aware if such display options are actually available on the 13" MBP as both mine and LeadFarmer's are the 15" model.


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## james_19742000

Thanks chap, I see what you mean, hadnt noticed those options, however its not available on the 13" version, so stuck with what is standard, either way, will still be a lovely machine!

Still trying to decide on which one, not sure whether to save myself £250 and spend a few quid on upgrading the RAM to 8GB on the £999 one, or spend the extra £250 to already have 8GB plus an i7? 

Decisions, decisions! Once again, many thanks for all your help, its appreciated, and just sorry I cant show you what I have bought already!!! I dont usually take this long to decide on technology!!


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## DW58

You won't regret it, welcome to the land of Apple users.


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## ivor

I brought the 15" macbook pro last week with the retina display and I would actually say it's worth the extra as web browsing films etc etc look so much better with regards the memory you need to ask yourself what your going to be using the book for I run a lot of cad software and photographic which even with 8gb of memory it doesn't struggle I would recommend getting parallels if you still want to run windows as well as the magic mouse


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## LeadFarmer

I pondered over which model to buy for ages. I discounted the retina as it had only just been released and I read reports of certain apps having not being upgraded to retina, rendering them blurry. But I guess this has been sorted out by now?


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## DW58

I wasn't convinced about Retina displays until I upgraded to an iPad 4 a month ago. With regard to the MBP, while I'd like to upgrade to Retina, it would be pointless for me really as I normally use it plugged into an Apple 27" Thunderbolt Display when at my desk ... ... ... but I'd still like one


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## james_19742000

Ok, well finally have done an online order for one! I have gone for the i5 model, the MD101B/A, ok its the base model, but it gets me on the ladder, I discounted the retina as its just so much more, I couldnt justify it, so that got me thinking can I justify other things too! So as I said I narrowed it down to the 13"/i7/8gb/750gb or the 13"/i5/4gb/500gb so looked at this way, I dont 'NEED' and i7, an i5 will cope admirably with everything I throw at it, so an i5 will be fine, I dont 'NEED' 750gb of storage as I have a 2TB network drive anyway, but I would like 8gb of RAM, so I can save £250 having the lower spec model and had a look on Crucial earlier and for about £40 I can upgrade to 8gb RAM or £70 for 16gb RAM, so overall about £200 saved, so overall, very happy! Bought it from Very with 12 months interest free and 3% quidco cashback too, so yes, really pleased! Cant wait!! Being delivered Friday, so a weekend of getting to know my new Mac all being well!!! 

Once again, thanks everyone for your help, all appreciated.


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## LeadFarmer

But you do realise that you will be spending the next few days wondering if youve bought the right model 

Youve made a good choice, just keep reminding yourself that the retina model was £250 more expensive, with non upgradeable RAM & hard drive.


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## DW58

One Caveat - before ordering a RAM upgrade, make sure that your machine will take 16Gb if you decide to go for 16Gb. I'm not convinced that the i5 models will take 16Gb of RAM, they may only take 8Gb.


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## james_19742000

LeadFarmer said:


> But you do realise that you will be spending the next few days wondering if youve bought the right model
> 
> Youve made a good choice, just keep reminding yourself that the retina model was £250 more expensive, with non upgradeable RAM & hard drive.


Yes I know I will be thinking, what if I had ordered..... NO NO NO thats not going to happen, I will be happy!!! I promise otherwise I will put myself on the naughty step!!!


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## james_19742000

DW58 said:


> One Caveat - before ordering a RAM upgrade, make sure that your machine will take 16Gb if you decide to go for 16Gb. I'm not convinced that the i5 models will take 16Gb of RAM, they may only take 8Gb.


According to the Crucial configurator it will take 16gb, but being honest I will prbably initially stay with the 4gb, but maybe in a few months if it needs a boost or something I might upgrade it then maybe, be like having a new machine then! :thumb:


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## Z4-35i

Enjoy your new MacBook, you'll love it.


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## james_19742000

Z4-35i said:


> Enjoy your new MacBook, you'll love it.


Cant wait, apparently its coming Friday, so will have to make sure I am hoem on Friday!!! And hopefully no snow to delay it:thumb:!!!!


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## DW58

Any problems just yell, plenty folks here to help :thumb:


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## james_19742000

OK, thanks for that!

When it arrives, I think I will take the chance to generally clean up my file structures etc, attempt to tidy them up etc.

What is the best way to transfer stuff from a PC over to the Mac then? Ca I just tidy up my PC in advance and transfer it to my network drive and then transfer that over to my Mac? Or is there any other ways of doing it?

I am guessing that similar to an iphone/ipad, the Mac will put videos into the video app, my photos into the photo app on the screen etc?

At the moment on my PC, I dont generally use the video, photo, document folders as I keep some of my more regularly used stuff on my desktop in folders marked what they are, some folders have a mix of different file types in them for example, i.e. videos, photos, documents etc

Also, I read on here about MS Office, I can buy that if I wish for £80 roughly I think, or I could use something like Open Office which is free I believe, will Open Office open and run as well as edit existing Office style documents?

Just want to try and get as prepared as possible, so I can spend a few hours this weekend sorting the Mac out as well as putting it through its paces!

I have Apple TV, so am I right in thinking I can mirror my Macbook desktop over and use my TV as an alternative desktop, is that correct, or do I need to physically connect it to the TV with HDMI?

Thanks in advance.


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## DW58

I simply transferred my data files from PC to Mac on an external hard drive. I use Office for Mac, but a cheaper option is as you suggest Open Office, or Apple's own Pages (word processor), Numbers (spreadsheet) and Keynotes (presentations) which can be downloaded from the App Store and all will read/edit Office files.

For photos/video, your Mac should come pre-loaded with iPhoto and iMovies. Sorry but I can't advise on AppleTV as I have no knowledge of it.

You'll be amazed by the seamless networking between Mac/iPhones/iPads etc. using Apple iCloud.

Best of all - everything works so easily.


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## fogulrs

You can mirror your MacBook too Apple TV


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## JB052

(Quote) Also, I read on here about MS Office, I can buy that if I wish for £80 roughly I think, or I could use something like Open Office which is free I believe, will Open Office open and run as well as edit existing Office style documents? [/QUOTE]

Although you can get MS Office for Mac, unless you really need the MS software I would use the Apple versions, pages, numbers and keynote. They are very easy to use you can open and save as MS documents easily.

If you look on the Apple website for your neared store, they run free workshops which are worth attending and tell you how to get the best from your Apple device.


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## james_19742000

Afternoon people!!

Macbook arrived, plugged in, set it up etc and all is fine!

However, having come from a Windows machine I do feel like I have just landed on Mars in some ways, the touchpad is very good however is taking some getting used, but, overall, I think I am getting there!

I think I am currently importing my itunes library into itunes on the Mac, hopefully anyway!!

I think my Gmail account is importing too!!!

However, I will no doubt be posting lots of questions in the next few days as I start getting used to it!

So far, where are 'photos' I have a iphoto program but cant find any photos anywhere?

Safari, it imported my bookmarks from my iPhone no problem, however, I seem to have three windows open on one page, one on the left for bookmarks, then a large window at the bottom with the pages listed at the site I am on, then in the last window on the page is teh website! How do I get rid of that bottom bookmark bar, the one with all the pages listed from the site I am on??

I also had all my films stored on my external drive in mp4 format, yet itunes wont play them, says it wont play them?

Also, on my safari browser, beneath the address bar, and just above the open tab windows I have list of sites that I visited ages ago on my old computer, any ideas what they are? And how do I get rid of them?

Also, the importated bookmarks, is there a way of getting them sorted alphabetically?

Seem like silly questions but when you have just landed on another planet it is just wierd not knowing where everything is!?

I love the screen, even though non-retina its still extremely nice and crisp, really pleased!

Overall, everything about the computer so far oozes quality etc, and no doubt over the coming days I will feel more at home but at the moment I feel like I have gone back 15 years!!!!

Thanks for all your help, I have a feeling I am going to be needing it!!!


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## LeadFarmer

I didnt bother transferring anything fro my old laptop at first, I did it in bits over time. I wanted to keep my MacBook clean of anything Windows related.

*DONT* copy your photos over straight to your hard drive. *ALWAYS* import them into iPhoto. I can explain in detail later, but iPhoto it is an incredibly amazing piece of software. Some folk dont understand it and give up on it. You need to prepare for a major 'mind shift' in how you organise your photos and completely forget how you stored them on your windows pc, i.e Folders containing Sub-Folders etc. iPhoto is actually a type of DAM (Digital Asset Manager) and allows an amazing way of finding/grouping photos in whatever way you want. It took me a while to learn how to use iPhoto to its best, but its actually amazingly simple.

When your ready to copy photos over let me know, I would delete any off your HD and import them into iPhoto instead, but this subject may need its own thread!



james_19742000 said:


> However, having come from a Windows machine I do feel like I have just landed on Mars in some ways, the touchpad is very good however is taking some getting used, but, overall, I think I am getting there!
> 
> Seem like silly questions but when you have just landed on another planet it is just wierd not knowing where everything is!?


Dont be put off mate, I felt exactly the same last September when I got mine. Dont be in a rush to know everything, have a play around and familiarise yourself with navigating around. Dont try and do everything at once. You will very soon fall in love with it.

Touchpad tips when browsing..

2 finger swipe left to right = going back a page
2 finger swipe right to left = going forward a page
2 finger swipe up/down to scroll
2 finger pinch/expand = zoom/pan
3 finger swipe up = reveals desktop
3 finger swipe left to right = reveals dashboard
2 finger swipe from from off touchpad right to left = reveals notification centre

Click on 'Finder' (the smiling blue face) to reveal the equivalent of My Computer, to navigate to pictures/documents/hard drive etc


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## james_19742000

LeadFarmer said:


> I didnt bother transferring anything fro my old laptop at first, I did it in bits over time. I wanted to keep my MacBook clean of anything Windows related.
> 
> *DONT* copy your photos over straight to your hard drive. *ALWAYS* import them into iPhoto. I can explain in detail later, but iPhoto it is an incredibly amazing piece of software. Some folk dont understand it and give up on it. You need to prepare for a major 'mind shift' in how you organise your photos and completely forget how you stored them on your windows pc, i.e Folders containing Sub-Folders etc. iPhoto is actually a type of DAM (Digital Asset Manager) and allows an amazing way of finding/grouping photos in whatever way you want. It took me a while to learn how to use iPhoto to its best, but its actually amazingly simple.
> 
> When your ready to copy photos over let me know, I would delete any off your HD and import them into iPhoto instead, but this subject may need its own thread!
> 
> Dont be put off mate, I felt exactly the same last September when I got mine. Dont be in a rush to know everything, have a play around and familiarise yourself with navigating around. Dont try and do everything at once. You will very soon fall in love with it.
> 
> Touchpad tips when browsing..
> 
> 2 finger swipe left to right = going back a page
> 2 finger swipe right to left = going forward a page
> 2 finger swipe up/down to scroll
> 2 finger pinch/expand = zoom/pan
> 3 finger swipe up = reveals desktop
> 3 finger swipe left to right = reveals dashboard
> 2 finger swipe from from off touchpad right to left = reveals notification centre
> 
> Click on 'Finder' (the smiling blue face) to reveal the equivalent of My Computer, to navigate to pictures/documents/hard drive etc


Thanks, I think I will be waning help over the next couple of weeks!

I managed to find out how to change my home page!!! A step in the right direction at least!

I love this 13" screen, its fantastic, although smaller than the Dell laptop it has replaced I feel that the OS makes better use of the available space, and the screen is crisp and clear, even though I saw the Retina screen I feel that I have made the right decision, it is a vast improvement on what I had before so thats the important thing, small steps and all that!

I am starting to get used to the multi gesture pad and it makes sense in so many ways, perfect!

My wife is laughing at me as she says its funny seeing me scratching me head trying to work out how to do things!

IU have just plugged my iphone in for the first time, so I am importing the photos from that, so will see what iphoto is like from that, my external HD where all my other photos etc are stored, do I hook that up and use iphoto to import them as well? How does the file structuring work in iphoto then, does it file them by date taken or something does it, or does it learn what you like to look at regularly or something does it??

Thanks for your help!


----------



## ivor

If you've not figured it out yet you need to turn on home sharing in Itunes to access your library 

Videos the best solution is to download VLC player when you open it your will get a little picture showing the package and a box showing a faded apps drag the package into apps and it will be accessable from the launchpad

two things i would download would be adobe flash player and sun Java 

If you can stretch to it get yourself a magic mouse and in properties tick the box for right click function this will give you the same feel as a windows mouse except the mouse feels amazing and is a really a breath of fresh air once you master the gestures


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## olliecampbell

ivor said:


> two things i would download would be adobe flash player and sun Java


Really? I'd stick without them for now, the browsers will prompt you to install them should you need them. You'll be better off without the bugs and security holes they bring!

Oppenoffice isn't bad, give it a go. iWork (Keynote, Pages etc) is better for mac than the Microsoft version of Office. Office (specifically Excel) has never worked as well on Mac as it has on PC.

Just keep trying and posting your questions


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## james_19742000

Ok, I think I will go with when it asks for stuff to be installed maybe?

I will try Open Office I think, its free, so worth having a go at it first, then if it doesnt work for me then I can try the other options.

Right, the App store, maybe wrongly I have assumed that I can go and download my regular apps, for example, facebook, twitter etc? Is that correct? Just that I just had a look in the app store for these but couldnt find them? Am I being silly or am I just wrong?

Thanks for the help once again, all appreciated.


----------



## olliecampbell

james_19742000 said:


> Right, the App store, maybe wrongly I have assumed that I can go and download my regular apps, for example, facebook, twitter etc? Is that correct? Just that I just had a look in the app store for these but couldnt find them? Am I being silly or am I just wrong?


Yep, just search for them...not every website i.e. facebook has it's own app though. I'm sure they will sooner or later, but then again they work so well as a website I'm not sure you need to bother.

Twitter does, but could I suggest Tweetdeck as an alternative.

Some others to have a look at...not all of them are on the App store though.

Battery Time Remaining - Replaces the battery icon with a bit more info on your battery

CCleaner and Onyx - Keep things ticking over nicely..think housekeeping.

Sophos antivirus - Free and very good.

I might have missed it in the previous pages, but don't forget to setup a Time Machine backup going...


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## james_19742000

OK will have a look at them, thanks.

The Time Machine back up, I can do that to my external HD can I?


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## LeadFarmer

james_19742000 said:


> How does the file structuring work in iphoto then, does it file them by date taken or something does it, or does it learn what you like to look at regularly or something does it??
> 
> Thanks for your help!


I hope the following doesnt confuse or bore you, but you may want to look back at this thread in the future...

One way is to open iPhoto and connect your ext HD. Within iPhoto click *File* >* Import Library*. This opens up Finder (Apples system of looking at whats on your computer) and you can select your ext HD in the column on the left.

iPhoto stores photos in what it calls 'Events'. These Events are defaulted to the date of import, but can be changed. For now just leave these Events alone.

Apple realises that your photos are precious and when photos are imported into iPhoto your macbook locks them away in a location thats hard for you to access. This makes it almost impossible to delete them by mistake.

iPhoto is simply a tool to view these original photos, but without actually opening them or touching them. You can edit & rename the photos etc within iPhoto but the originals are never touched. There is a way to access the originals, but thats another subject. Basically you should never really access/edit the originals or iPhoto gets upset.

The key to iPhoto is to add keywords to each photo after you have imported them. These key words can be anything at all, choose something that categorises the photo e.g. Birthday, Holiday, Dog Walk etc. By doing this you can immediately find any photo within seconds just by searching for these keywords.

So when I want to find a photo of my son that was taken in Wales on a caravanning holiday, I can quickly search using the keywords of Jack, Caravan or Wales. Or a combination. This way I dont need to store photos in Folders as I did on my windows laptop. I can also create a brand new album at any time by creating a Smart Album (more on these another time) and add all photos taken on, say, Dog Walks taken between June & Sept 2012, almost instantly. Its a very clever bit of kit.

If you import them straight onto your HD and later add them to iPhoto then you will end up duplicating them, taking up valuable HD space.


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## james_19742000

Clever! I have iphoto running at the moment and that has been my problem in the past was that I used to keep my photos by date, so unless you knew exactly what date it was you were looking for you could end up looking through piles of photos to find one that you needed, seems this way you can just put a keyword against the photos and away you go! Seems like there will be a fair amount fo work in the coming days to get it to do what I want it to do. But should be worth it to make things easier in the future.

Perfect, am just having short amounts of time on it at the moment to take things in as if I sit here for hours like I did this afternoon I will just become mind f******!!!!


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## LeadFarmer

james_19742000 said:


> OK will have a look at them, thanks.
> 
> The Time Machine back up, I can do that to my external HD can I?


Yes. If its connected to your router then Time Machine (TM) will do this automatically. If not, you will have to keep connecting it to your MacBook to back up, and you will probable forget to do this.

I use an Apple Time Capsule connected to my router, which TM on my MacBook is constantly backing up to.


----------



## LeadFarmer

james_19742000 said:


> Clever! I have iphoto running at the moment and that has been my problem in the past was that I used to keep my photos by date, so unless you knew exactly what date it was you were looking for you could end up looking through piles of photos to find one that you needed, seems this way you can just put a keyword against the photos and away you go! Seems like there will be a fair amount fo work in the coming days to get it to do what I want it to do. But should be worth it to make things easier in the future.


Correct. The trick is to spend a couple of minutes adding these keywords everytime you import photos into iPhoto. But its sooooooo worth it,

Iphoto can do so much more, ive only just scratched the surface. And then when you outgrow iPhoto you can buy Apples pro photo app - Aperture.


----------



## james_19742000

LeadFarmer said:


> Yes. If its connected to your router then Time Machine (TM) will do this automatically. If not, you will have to keep connecting it to your MacBook to back up, and you will probable forget to do this.
> 
> I use an Apple Time Capsule connected to my router, which TM on my MacBook is constantly backing up to.


I just tried to do it, but it kicked up an error code, but will investigate that over the weekend, it might be something to do with the drive, will have a look at the manual for the drive and see if there is a special sequence or something for the drive maybe?

Anti-virus, do Macs need anti-virus or not as I have read they dont always need it?


----------



## LeadFarmer

james_19742000 said:


> Perfect, am just having short amounts of time on it at the moment to take things in as if I sit here for hours like I did this afternoon I will just become mind f******!!!!


Thats the way. Enjoy your learning.

No, Macs dont need anti virus software. Dont be conned into buying any.


----------



## james_19742000

LeadFarmer said:


> Thats the way. Enjoy your learning.
> 
> No, Macs dont need anti virus software. Dont be conned into buying any.


Perfect, thanks for your help all really appreciated, the joys of forums!


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## DW58

Don't believe anything you read about Macs not needing anti-virus protection, there are Mac viruses and malware out there, they're just not as common as those for PC. Mac OS X Mountain Lion has a degree of protection built in, but I wouldn't leave it to chance.

I use Sophos Anti-Virus for Mac. It's produced by one of the biggest AV companies - used by many government agencies and major institutions/companies worldwide, the great thing is it's free.

Kaspersky do a series of Mac-based packages, but you'll have to pay for them, plus there are other alternatives, but I'm told the Sophos package is as good as any.


----------



## LeadFarmer

DW58 said:


> Don't believe anything you read about Macs not needing anti-virus protection, there are Mac viruses and malware out there, they're just not as common as those for PC. Mac OS X Mountain Lion has a degree of protection built in, but I wouldn't leave it to chance.
> 
> I use Sophos Anti-Virus for Mac. It's produced by one of the biggest AV companies - used by many government agencies and major institutions/companies worldwide, the great thing is it's free.
> 
> Kaspersky do a series of Mac-based packages, but you'll have to pay for them, plus there are other alternatives, but I'm told the Sophos package is as good as any.


I understand your position on this, and i still class myself as a newbie with MacBooks so I cant criticise your stance. Apple themselves tell customers not to use antivirus software, but I dont particularly trust them as they could just be denying theres a problem in order to make their products more appealing?.

However, the following post taken from another forum makes interesting reading..


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## DW58

That's an interesting post, but rather contra what I have read elsewhere. It's entirely up to you whether or not you choose to protect your Mac, but I'll stick with my current position. The first paragraph of the post you quote has been disproved elsewhere, your choice.

Put it this way, I know of very trusted organisations who use Sophos on their Macs on the advise of industry experts, I'll stick with that rather than someone on a forum. Incidentally, where does the quote you posted come from?


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## LeadFarmer

Far comment  Im not knowledgefull enough to know either way.

It comes from MacRumors forum.


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## DW58

I don't claim to be an expert either, I've only had my Mac since September 2011, but I've taken advice from experts in the field in a position where security really matters. In my opinion for anyone to say there have never been any Mac-specific viruses is not only not true but a very head in the sand attitude.

OK, chances are if your Mac is properly set-up and you are careful with your browsing, then you are certainly infinitely safer than with Windows PC, but put it this way would you take chances with other expensive possessions such as your car?


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## SteveyG

It's not just about the traditional viruses either any more. AV programs will stop malware from running within a webpage, which are platform independent, usually running in a script or in a flash 'advert' etc.


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## olliecampbell

I run (or try to!) an IT Dept that looks after nearly 1000 Macs. They all have AV running on them.

It's hard for a virus to do it's 'thing' on a Mac as you have to put a password in to do any real damage, especially if you take a few of the steps posted by LeadFarmer above.

Nonetheless, virus get emails to you every day, you visit websites with them on, you might inadvertently get given a USB drive with some one.

LeadFarmer, it would be interesting to see those two Sophos links in that picture you posted if you can dig them out.


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## LeadFarmer

olliecampbell said:


> LeadFarmer, it would be interesting to see those two Sophos links in that picture you posted if you can dig them out.


I'll find the links for you.

In the meantime, as DW58 pointed out above, theres a difference between virus & malware. I dont think there are any viruses for macs. Malware - yes. To quote someone with far more knowledge than me..

*Using "virus" when you mean "malware" is like using "Corvette" when you mean "car". A Corvette is a car, but not all cars are Corvettes. A virus is a form of malware, but not all malware is in the form of viruses. It's really not that difficult to learn the correct terminology.*

*EDIT - Heres the 1st link..(although I dont claim to understand )

http://lock.cmpxchg8b.com/Sophail.pdf

The 2nd link referes to..

*I would not use Sophos because the component (and almost all of its components) of the software that receives updates is running with root privileges such that an exploit would be remote root if an exploit was found for that component.

Given that Sophos is 32 bit, the security mitigations can be defeated by bruteforce techniques if an exploitable vulnerability is found in the software.

For example, McAfee LinuxShield <= 1.5.1 Local/Remote Root Code Execution. Different OS but same principle could be used if exploit found in Mac AV software running as root.

With ClamXav, all of the components do not run as root. The exception is a daemon that scans for changes in folders to initiate launching clamscan if you use the Sentry feature but it does not receive inputs from a remote source.*

The 3rd link refers to..

*The problem with Sophos and other AV software that runs with elevated privileges is that an exploit found in the AV software would be a remote root exploit given that AV software receives remote input and the software runs with elevated privileges.

For example, McAfee Linuxshield Remote Root.

Use ClamXav or VirusBarrier Express. These two Mac AV softwares do not run with elevated privileges.*

Another screenshot taken from elsewhere..










Dont shoot the messenger, im only posting what ive read elsewhere. Its mostly all flying above my head to be honest


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## james_19742000

One thing that is bugging me is I have downloaded a couple of program's and for some reason after installing them I end up with the downloaded file (after installation) on the desktop still, how do you get rid of them?

Another thing in windows my iTunes was directed to find files on my external HD, on this mac I have syncd it across but it has transferred all the files to the mac, how can I point iTunes on the mac to go to the HD and how can I delete all the files it has syncd across so it doesn't take up nearly 300gb of hard disk space on the mac?

Other than these queries I am getting there and so far quite impressed, the speed etc is excellent, also still getting used to the touch gestures but certainly going well so far!!


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## DW58

Simply right click on the download icon on the desktop and select "eject _xxxx_".


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## james_19742000

DW58 said:


> Simply right click on the download icon on the desktop and select "eject _xxxx_".


Cheers, feel a right numpty now!! :thumb:


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## gaz_vxr

Another one that uses sophos on my mac.


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## olliecampbell

Thanks LeadFarmer.
I have a few issues with the content of those posts, I don't believe them to be fully true in what they're saying.
I'm not going to go into it here as it will dilute the thread somewhat!

James, the AV choice is yours.


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## james_19742000

So essentially what we are saying is that a Mac is considerably less likely to get a virus (as long as sensible precautions are taken) however, Malware is more possible, so its probably sensible to have some sort of protection against that threat at least?


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## willwander

Personally I think anti-virus programs are more trouble than they are worth, most people get suckered into buying them.

If you don't install dodgy software, you don't get viruses. Malware is the same, it's pretty easy to avoid, just don't click and install/open it if it looks dodgy.


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## LeadFarmer

I never had it at all on my windows laptop, and I used to regularly download films online etc without any problems. Perhaps I was lucky, but im not thinking of getting any AV just yet. Never say never though!


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## DW58

Your decision but I'd say you've been exceptionally lucky, especially on PCs as that sounds like a recipe for disaster.


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## olliecampbell

willwander said:


> Personally I think anti-virus programs are more trouble than they are worth, most people get suckered into buying them.
> 
> If you don't install dodgy software, you don't get viruses. Malware is the same, it's pretty easy to avoid, just don't click and install/open it if it looks dodgy.


What if it's free?


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## Bero

I've never used AV software (that could be a lie, I might remember downloading AVG at one point) on PC for MANY years and for Mac for the last 1.5yr and never had a single issue. The chance of getting a Mac virus is negligible, not impossible, but negligible.

Apple used to tout virus free until last year. Any weakness that does exist tends to be malware issues with applications like the recent java issue that affected PC and Mac. As Apple have their own built in anti-malware system that's always up to date and just takes a quick fix at Apple HQ which gets pushed out to all computers as soon as they're switched on. No bulked up premium/freemium/upgrade software that gets in your face when you turn the computer on and uses up a bunch of CPU/graphics in an attempt to look cooler than the competing MacavScanSuper AV that also sells for £20 a year, the Apple one just works away in the background, does what it needs to do, does not shout about it or feel compelled to add 'upgrade' features or be flash, in your face or remind you every 3 seconds it's out of date and needs updating or renewing.

I would not consider anything for the Mac currently, although this may change as Macs become a large enough segment of the market to become a target and the potential bigger prize for data harvesting a mac due to their premium pricing (awaits the elitist accusations!) and mostly used in the private sector which is a lot more lax about security then most business'.

In some circumstances AV programs can increase the risk, they have ultimate access to your computer with no restrictions, if you could design software to maliciously use these privileges.............


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## Z4-35i

Just one thing to note, don't download and install MacKeeper it's very invasive and a complete PITA to remove.

https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-3036


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## DW58

I simply don't understand the "head-in-the-sand" attitude of so many Mac-users. There are a couple of very good, well used and well tested free AV programmes out there, why not use them? That article from the Mac Rumours forum is utter twaddle and typical of the "Macs are safe Ostrich" attitude. Guess who'll be whining "how do I rid my beloved Mac of _ABC Virus_ or _XYZ Trojan_ and trying to blame everyone when they do?


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## DW58

Bero said:


> I've never used AV software (that could be a lie, I might remember downloading AVG at one point) on PC for MANY years and for Mac for the last 1.5yr and never had a single issue. The chance of getting a Mac virus is negligible, not impossible, but negligible.
> 
> Apple used to tout virus free until last year. Any weakness that does exist tends to be malware issues with applications like the recent java issue that affected PC and Mac. As Apple have their own built in anti-malware system that's always up to date and just takes a quick fix at Apple HQ which gets pushed out to all computers as soon as they're switched on. No bulked up premium/freemium/upgrade software that gets in your face when you turn the computer on and uses up a bunch of CPU/graphics in an attempt to look cooler than the competing MacavScanSuper AV that also sells for £20 a year, the Apple one just works away in the background, does what it needs to do, does not shout about it or feel compelled to add 'upgrade' features or be flash, in your face or remind you every 3 seconds it's out of date and needs updating or renewing.
> 
> I would not consider anything for the Mac currently, although this may change as Macs become a large enough segment of the market to become a target and the potential bigger prize for data harvesting a mac due to their premium pricing (awaits the elitist accusations!) and mostly used in the private sector which is a lot more lax about security then most business'.
> 
> In some circumstances AV programs can increase the risk, they have ultimate access to your computer with no restrictions, if you could design software to maliciously use these privileges.............


Just one question - how do you know that you're Virus/Malware free?


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## Bero

DW58 said:


> Just one question - how do you know that you're Virus/Malware free?


How does anyone know?!  You only know if your AV software company know about it....but when someone releases a new virus NOONE knows about it. Do you know you're AV free? Here's a gunuine question, can you list *any* virus' I could have on my computer that an AV software currently blocks/finds but the build in software does not?

As I say Apple have their own built in systems for detect/block problems, would additional software significantly improve this?

Virus' like Stuxnet would NEVER have been detected if the lone employee took his computer home which he was not supposed to do (iirc), anything that someone or organisation puts enough effort/time/money into will remain undetected until it achieves it's goal...at which point it could self destruct and leave no trace.

I had my head in the sand on PC and see less reason to remove it now :thumb: :lol:


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## DW58

Fair enough, it's your PC after all - I simply don't like to leave things to chance.


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## Z4-35i

I must have tempted fate by posting how reliable my 2008 MacBook Air had been as the hinge failed on Monday out of the blue. After a bit of research it looks like it's a known fault, but at over 4.5 years old, I don't think I'll get any joy out of Apple getting it fixed.

It's going to take a few weeks to get it repaired, so I've just ordered a new 13" MacBook Air as I need it for work.

I also looked at the new 13" MacBook Pro with retina display, but this was a little bit more than I wanted to spend and most of the reviews said it will be a much better device when it gets the Intel Haswell chipset with upgraded on-board graphics to drive the retina display.

I ended up buying the new 13" MacBook Air online from Costco, as it included the factory upgraded memory to 8GB and a two year warranty for £960.39, which was £120 cheaper than the Apple store with an additional years warranty.

Once I get the hinge repaired on my old MacBook Air I was looking to sell it on, although my wife now says she'd like it as her laptop once it's fixed.


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## LeadFarmer

Z4-35i said:


> Once I get the hinge repaired on my old MacBook Air I was looking to sell it on, although my wife now says she'd like it as her laptop once it's fixed.


Wives love doing that don't they, taking possession of our stuff and preventing us from selling them for a bit of beer money!


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## DW58

Now where have I heard that story before?


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## james_19742000

Nice, still, at least you get a nice new laptop out of the deal!

So, nearly a week in, and so far now that I am getting used to it I am starting to feel at home with it, still does things occasionally that catch me out!

Done some video conversion last night using Handbrake, and on my Windows machine each conversion was taking around 15 minutes, this one, does each conversion in under 3 minutes, so that shows its performance, my old laptop was still an i5 with 4gb Ram same as this one, but I suppose the technology is slightly newer plus a Mac is more efficent I suppose?

Had to pop into my local Currys today and looked at the Macbooks again and I definately feel that I have made the right choice with the 13" over the 15", and the non-retina over retina, overall, still very pleased!


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## Z4-35i

James, glad you're enjoying your new MacBook, impressive improvements in the video conversion times. 

I'm expecting some pretty good performance improvements with the new MacBook Air, going from a 1.6GHz Core 2 Duo with a passmark of 919 to a 1.8Ghz i5-3472U with a passmark of 3,546, that's not counting the extra faster memory and SSD vs. the iPod drive in my old MacBook Air.

The only pain is that I've got to buy new Ethernet, video display and aircraft power supply adapters as the new ones are different to the original MacBook Air.


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## james_19742000

Im sure you will notice a big difference!  Enjoy!

I think I will upgrade the RAM on this one, no real reason, just a case of memory is a bargain at the moment so why not! If it makes this one slightly faster and smoother then I will have an awesome machine on my hands!


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## JB052

Z4-35i said:


> 1.6GHz Core 2 Duo with a passmark of 919 to a 1.8Ghz i5-3472U with a passmark of 3,546, that's not counting the extra faster memory and SSD vs. the iPod drive[/QUOTE
> 
> Interesting, not heard the 'Passmark' term before. What does it mean and how is it obtained?
> 
> Regards...JB


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## Z4-35i

It's a CPU comparative performance test

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/


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## james_19742000

Had a small 'bonus' this last week, so as its money that I wont miss was considering the memory upgrade for MacBook, I know it can take 16gb of RAM, but was thinking of just going for the 8gb, but is 16GB really worth it?

Also, was thinking about Applecare, 3 years for £199, I know it certainly helps with a resale value, but what about the actual need for it? Do Macbooks actually NEED applecare, are they likely to go wrong, or is generally software related that plays up which is usually user repaired?

Thoughts?


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## LeadFarmer

Applecare is a difficult deceision isnt it, theres no way of knowing if your going to need it. And its not cheap. I purchased it but at a discount through my education purchase of my MacBook. Had I being paying full price then I would have been scratching my head for a long time, trying to decide.


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## Z4-35i

I think it's worth the peace of mind as the newer MacBooks are getting less and less user serviceable and the OEM parts are very expensive.

First time around I purchased my MacBook from John Lewis as they provided a two year guarantee, this time around from Costco as they also offered a two year guarantee.

On my old MacBook Air the only things that failed were the hard drive, after four years and now the hinge, which was a know fault in the original MacBook Air design. The hard drive was a fairly easy item to swap, with some good how to videos on line taking you though the steps. The hinge is going to be a bit more involved and the replacement hinges and hinge cover are around £85 for pattern parts. Just make sure you have regular backups of your data.

You have a year from the original purchase date to decide if you want to upgrade the Apple guarantee, you never know, you may want the next latest and greatest MacBook in a years time.

On a side note, using migration assistant to transfer all the user accounts, data and applications from my old MacBook Air to my new one was an absolute breeze, if only Windows systems were as easy to migrate.


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## james_19742000

Z4-35i said:


> You have a year from the original purchase date to decide if you want to upgrade the Apple guarantee, you never know, you may want the next latest and greatest MacBook in a years time.
> 
> On a side note, using migration assistant to transfer all the user accounts, data and applications from my old MacBook Air to my new one was an absolute breeze, if only Windows systems were as easy to migrate.


Thats what worries me, if I pay for the extra care and then in 12 months time upgrade to a newer one, as although I love mine so far I can be a gadget freak and want to upgrade!!!

Seeing you say about the migration assistant, presume that works in a similar manner to an iphone upgrade, great isnt it!


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## HeavenlyDetail

If you were a business I could have rented you a brand new one for £2 per day and at the end of a year you could hand it back or id swop it for the latest model if you wanted to continue 
Can do that on the whole Apple range. Wouldn't have needed AppleCare then either.


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## james_19742000

HeavenlyDetail said:


> If you were a business I could have rented you a brand new one for £2 per day and at the end of a year you could hand it back or id swop it for the latest model if you wanted to continue
> Can do that on the whole Apple range. Wouldn't have needed AppleCare then either.


You should of said as I do sort of consider my self a business! I employ a person and pay wages to them!!


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