# (Another) help with a camera buying thread



## Rust.Bucket (Feb 11, 2011)

Some of you may know that I have a 5 week holiday in July booked, I'm off to Penang and Borneo, Malaysia (and possibly might head over to Singapore for a few nights.
I want a decent camera to take with me- hence this thread.

At first I was looking at the full blown dSLR cameras but I wanted something with HD video capabilities and therefore prices began shooting up.
I also wanted something that wasn't too hard to get used to (I leave in less than a month).
Therefore I began looking at alternatives.

The one I am currently looking at is the Panasonic Lumix DMC G2.
From Internet browsing and speaking to a great guy at Jessops, it seems this camera is somewhere between a dslr and a bridge camera.
You can upgrade lenses etc.

It seems to be a bit easier to get used to, is smaller, and seems to be a good 'first camera' from a jump up from a compact camera.

Can anyone shed some light on the camera itself.
I don't want an 'all singing all dancing' £2k dslr as most of the features will be wasted with me.

I want something that will take good photos, has HD video, and something that will get me on my way to decent photography.
Something that will last a while, and get me ready for a dslr in a few years.

Thanks everyone!


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## Rust.Bucket (Feb 11, 2011)

Anybody?  lol


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## David-R (Apr 18, 2011)

Panasonic Lumix are very good cameras, but if you want something a bit more special without going mad on price, I would say go for a Canon EOS 550D, great pics and great video quality, but its a little bit bigger and expensive than a Lumix


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## McClane (Dec 9, 2010)

I can also say don't discount the bridge cameras for flexibility of use (wide zoom ranges without changing lenses), also shooting HD video, and being lighter than SLRs by some margin.

Some good ones to be had for about 300 pounds and will take a cracking picture.

I've had my Panasonic Lumix FZ38 for nearly two years now, and it's been great. I can vouch for the panasonics being good. There are some newer models available now, and also the Fuji's are supposed to be quite good. 

That said, I'm sure the DSLRs would be great too. 

:thumb:


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## Rust.Bucket (Feb 11, 2011)

David-R said:


> Panasonic Lumix are very good cameras, but if you want something a bit more special without going mad on price, I would say go for a Canon EOS 550D, great pics and great video quality, but its a little bit bigger and expensive than a Lumix


I saw the canon model, but in terms of price, it seems a little too high for me at the moment (I still have holiday shopping to do as well etc.)

So I just thought I could use the Lumix as a stepping stone towards better photos- and also to see if I genuinely do get along with the 'style' of camera.

Thanks!


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## JenJen (Jun 30, 2010)

RB the camera you mention in your original post is what I have and is amazing And simple to use, to the degree my mum has nicked off with it. You will love it.


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## Rust.Bucket (Feb 11, 2011)

It was actually a previous post you made about your Lumix that got me looking into them!
I then saw the Lumix G2 and thought it was almost a dSLR, but slightly more affordable and beginner friendly.

I believe they call them 'compact system cameras'. I think they are dSLRs without a few components (something about a mirror plate) and the features are simplified more, and something about 'micro Four Thirds camera' (some of these terms are hard to grasp).

I think I'll try and have a play with a few models and see what they're like.



McClane said:


> I can also say don't discount the bridge cameras for flexibility of use (wide zoom ranges without changing lenses), also shooting HD video, and being lighter than SLRs by some margin.
> 
> Some good ones to be had for about 300 pounds and will take a cracking picture.
> 
> ...


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## bretti_kivi (Apr 22, 2008)

You realise just how much space HD video takes up, don't you? we're talking 60MB / min *at least*, and that's compressed. I'm surprised it's even only that little (I think my limit is 12min at 1080p for a full 4GB file). So I'd consider some way to backup the pics or a very large amount of storage.

The G2 is *not* a bridge, it's a mirrorless SLR. By definition a bridge would not have a changeable lens. NEX-3 and 5, the oly PEN series are other examples of the breed.

Four thirds is the name of the system used by Panasonic and Olympus. Micro fourthirds is the mirrorless version, nothing more. 
You will find it difficult to get really wide angle lenses as the sensor is relatively small. This may also lead to noise on high-ISO pics.

Bret


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## Rust.Bucket (Feb 11, 2011)

abz001 said:


> RB the camera you mention in your original post is what I have and is amazing And simple to use, to the degree my mum has nicked off with it. You will love it.


Oh great!
What sort of photos have you found it capable to take?
And is the lens any good?
Also, would you say it's not overly heavy (I'm going to be carrying this thing round with me for almost 5 weeks).

Thanks.


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## JenJen (Jun 30, 2010)

To be fair any panasonic Lumix would work, I have a compact one aswell and I actually prefer that over the bulker one (hence I haven't retrieved mine from my mum yet) it has auto focus and hd video mode and slips into my pocket for ease. Nice all rounder. Pop inti John Lewis, I know jessops is the place to be but the products sold in john Lewis comes with an extended warranty which is actually really good used it to get my mac fixed so it's worth it if the kit goes wrong.


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

It's a micro four thirds camera with an array of excellent lenses. M43 (micro four thirds) gives it a bigger sensor than a compact for higher IQ (basically better quality pics) they have a crop factor of 2 meaning a 20mm lens will actually give a 40mm (35mm equivalent field of view)

You may also want to look at full sized sensor small system cameras such as the Sony Nex which offer an even bigger sensor than m43 and thus better IQ but currently lack the choice of lenses that m43 has. The Panasonic in particular has a very well regarded 20mm pancake lens.


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## JenJen (Jun 30, 2010)

Rust.Bucket said:


> Oh great!
> What sort of photos have you found it capable to take?
> And is the lens any good?
> Also, would you say it's not overly heavy (I'm going to be carrying this thing round with me for almost 5 weeks).
> ...


For me it's a good camera, was given it for a Christmas present as I got a canon but found it didn't like my laptop, so I was on the hunt for a nice camera. Pics are good but tbh I don't use it for the purpose it's supposed to. My mum on the other hand is an artist so she is taking some rather nice photos with it, her only compliant is I need to get more lenses! So it's fast becoming expensive. As I said above I think I'll stick to my compact it's excellent as taking snaps but if you want that special pic and your willing to pay put cash for extras then get the camera, otherwise £199 gets you a pretty decent camera, one I will always pick up first.


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## Rust.Bucket (Feb 11, 2011)

bretti_kivi said:


> we're​ talking 60MB / min *at least*, and that's compressed. I'm surprised it's even only that little (I think my limit is 12min at 1080p for a full 4GB file). So I'd consider some way to backup the pics or a very large amount of storage.


Ouch. Ok. I was going to get a large memory card anyway, and will probably do more photos than videos.
I guess I could take my small portable hard drive as I'll have computer access when I'm out there.



bretti_kivi said:


> The G2 is *not* a bridge, it's a mirrorless SLR. By definition a bridge would not have a changeable lens. NEX-3 and 5, the oly PEN series are other examples of the breed.


Yeah I understood it wasn't a bridge, then only way a novice like myself could explain it was somewhere between a bride and an slr.



bretti_kivi said:


> You will find it difficult to get really wide angle lenses as the sensor is relatively small. This may also lead to noise on high-ISO pics.


Sorry to sound dumb, but what would a wide angle lens allow me to do, and are they expensive (I won't be buying any additional lenses any time soon, just want to learn about bigger, better cameras... And saw this as a good starting platform).

And when is this whole 'iso' thing used? Could you explain it for someone novice like myself.

Do you think this camera would fit it's purpose of teaching me more about how to control different features and elements of a photo. And do you think it would be good enough for some fairly decent holiday snaps (scenery and things like that... I don't mean: photos taken for the sole purpose of uploading to facebook lol).


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## bretti_kivi (Apr 22, 2008)

wideangle lenses simply allow you to get more into the picture.

There's a lot of maths involved, but the smaller the sensor, the more difficult it is to create a lens that shows more than a certain amount of a scene to the sensor.

The 20mm Brazo mentioned is in my camera a wide-angle; most kit lenses go from 18-55mm. 
On a full frame dSLR, like a Canon 1D, you'll get field of View equivalent to 20mm (as it's full frame). On a 7D, it's 30mm, as that's APS-C. On a G2, it's 40mm, as that's four thirds. It's like getting closer to the subject without moving. For birds and stuff, this is good, but for getting all of a temple in, it's a pain.

ISO is related. Think of it as a stereo. If the signal is noisy, it's a crappy aerial in the car, then no matter how good your amp or speakers are, the radio will still sound crap. 
For pictures this shows as noise. If you have a small sensor, the pixels can't be as sensitive, so amplifying the signal means that you are more likely to have a noise problem. The 1D is fantastic for this, the 7D is OK, and the four thirds is pretty much unusable over ISO400. This is not good if you want to take pictures in dim light.
Example: check out the shadows of this pic. They've got coloured confetti; that pic is from my K5, which is better than a 7D at high-iso noise control. That's ISO6400 and still it was 1/30 of a second - and it's been pushed in processing so normally they wouldn't be that obvious.

Pretty much *anything* on the market is good enough for decent pics. The question is how much time and effort you're prepared to put into it to make it work and to understand the camera. I can take half-decent shots with my mobile if I want.... but for the real stuff, I schlep 10 kilos of dSLR around, simply because I can and want to.

It might sound a bit like "sheesh, do I really need to know this?" - but if you're investing, you should understand what you're letting yourself in for.

Bret


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Lumix Bridge camera especially for holidays, due to the huge range of lens zoom.


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## Rust.Bucket (Feb 11, 2011)

bretti_kivi said:


> It might sound a bit like "sheesh, do I really need to know this?" - but if you're investing, you should understand what you're letting yourself in for.


Thanks for the reply.
I fully agree with the part I quoted. When it comes to anything Im always so analytical about it all (I ask thousands of questions when wanting a new car wax lol).

So overall, do you think getting a camera like the one I asked about is a good step in the right direction? Ie. Something that allows me to learn new features etc. before (and if) I wish to step up to a dSLR (depending I you start enjoying, and get into, taking photos and photography in general).


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

You probably don't have time to learn how to use a DSLR or even an M43 and it will be limited in zoom by the lens(es) that you have. 

My advice would be to get a bridge camera for you to cover your holiday perfectly well with your current photography level. the beauty of the bridge is that you can learn Some photography basics on them and that they have a large zoom range and an Auto function for whaen you just want to snap away. 

Move up to a DSLR later.


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