# Correcting my new single-stage paint job (custom speaker build with pics)



## lloydh (Feb 15, 2012)

Hi,

I originally posted this question in the Detailing Chat forum and was advised that I might glean some good info from these pastures.

I've built a custom speaker enclosure as part of a pretty involved car audio project:










Getting the thing painted properly has been a bit of a saga (the details of which I'll omit for the sake of brevity) but in short, it's now been painted three times by the same body shop, over the course of 7 months!

At this stage I'd rather have a go at refining the paint myself than go to the lengths required to get it back in the shop... for who knows what result.

The current (very fresh) paint job displays a couple of problems but orange peel is the most obvious:




























In addition, there are a number of very small 'lumps' on the top surface:



















Accurately photographing the 'lumps' was extremely difficult. In total there are maybe 15-20 (of varying size). In person they're smaller than they appear in the photos.

It's been painted with a single-stage paint (no clear coat) - I think the shop uses DuPont. I'm hoping that this will be to my advantage with the correction that will be needed. The shop sprayed two coats each respray so there should be a decent amount of paint present, although the first finish was the wrong colour... 

I'm completely new to detailing but have been following/reading about the processes and products for a long time - preparing for the day when I would take the plunge 

I have an idea how to proceed but I'd really appreciate hearing the thoughts of some wiser detailers.

Thanks for reading.

Lloyd


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## mitchelld (Jan 14, 2012)

orange peel for a start, but that can be corrected by flatten and polishing.

the lumps seem to me to be dirt underneath the paint, which may be possible to flatten unless the actual dirt nib comes through before surface is level then you would still see it as a black dot. 

the overall hazyness to the finish is something ive come across before, and i Think! its to dow ith poor extraction in the booth, not drawing away the overspray wihich once the paint has dried a little come back down to rest on the panel, i may be wrong on this point though!

the other thing that may cause the hazy finish is if the second coat is applied to quick without giving the solvents from first coat a chance to eveaporate properly they then rise to the surface of the second coat but cant escape as top layer has started to dry ?? i think this is what people refer to as solvent pop. although i would like a pro to come on here and confirm or rubbish what i have said lol just so i then know!

to be honest though mate that is a shocking job if its out a proper bodyshop. i could spray a better ( and i think most on here would say they could) finish outside in the rain with rattle cans.


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

That's a shocking finish for a bodyshop. 

The bumps you see in the paint are dirt. Caused poor prep work, not blown off properly prior to painting to remove all traces of dust and dirt, then tacked properly. Spray gun not cleaned properly, spraybooth not clean, the list could go on.
Paint finish, to me it looks like they have first applied a high build primer, then just painted over it. You say they have painted it three times, so all they have done is grey scotchbrite it and paint it. This will not get rid of any orange peel, if they had flatted it properly every time they painted it, this would of given a more even flatter finish.

To polish this you will really need to flat it with P2000, as it will have six coats of paint if it's been done three times, then flat it with p3000. Then this should eliminate the orange peel, then you just to polish it up.

Dont really see any solvent boil as the applications of paint have not all been in one go,reasons for solvent boil are.
Solvent or air trapped in film escapes during drying leaving pop marks.
Incorrect spray viscosity, spray pressure, flash off time, or improper drying.
Incorrect choice of hardeners and/or thinners.*Use of fast-dry thinner or reducer, especially when the material is sprayed too dry or at excessive pressure.
Excessive film thickness. Insufficient drying time between coats and too heavy application of the undercoats may trap solvents causing popping of the color coat as they later escape.
Incorrect drying of primer / fillers.
Improper surface cleaning or preparation.
Infrared facilities too close.
Baking was started too soon after application.
Baking temperature too high.

It just looks like poor prep work and paint work by a bodyshop, if that's how they finished this I would hate to think about the quality of there repairs/paintwork on customers cars.


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## black (Feb 16, 2012)

There is many cowboy out there with no self respect. funny industry with stupid ego


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## Andyb0127 (Jan 16, 2011)

black said:


> There is many cowboy out there with no self respect. funny industry with stupid ego


There are, but you can say the same for an trade there's good and there's bad.
But to say we have a stupid ego, fairly insulting really because I bet your not even in the trade, just your assumptions from past experience or what you've heard. I don't feel the need to have an ego my paint work does the talking, but I also have to rely on the preppers getting there part right, as it's this that will make the paint job. But if you have no experience in this trade then your opinions judgement are fairly poor, there are plenty of decent bodyshops out there.

Let me put this into perspective for you about this topic.

We don't know the full story only what we see in the pics, also don't know how much he paid to have it done, why was it painted three times, what sort of bodyshop did the job, rather than just making assumptions look into it big further first.


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## black (Feb 16, 2012)

Andyb0127 said:


> There are, but you can say the same for an trade there's good and there's bad.
> But to say we have a stupid ego, fairly insulting really because I bet your not even in the trade, just your assumptions from past experience or what you've heard. I don't feel the need to have an ego my paint work does the talking, but I also have to rely on the preppers getting there part right, as it's this that will make the paint job. But if you have no experience in this trade then your opinions judgement are fairly poor, there are plenty of decent bodyshops out there.
> 
> Let me put this into perspective for you about this topic.
> ...


My friend i said many not *ALL*
sure there are many people out there who can do perfect job. 
even best mechanic in world have bad day too...It's for any job.


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## lloydh (Feb 15, 2012)

Thanks for the responses. It's bittersweet for me to get confirmation that this standard of paintwork isn't the norm.

To curb speculation, the first spray wasn't the right colour because the shop mislabeled/lost the colour reference I provided.

The subsequent respray had VERY heavy orange peel on the back, some runs, some chips and the paint started to 'sink', apparently on account of the wooden substrate. Everything had had multiple coats of polyester resin and months to cure; the shop said it had been sealed and well primed, but it happened. Blisters also appeared over a couple of holes which I'd filled. I accept responsibility for the filling but they didn't show any signs of instability over the months in my garage.

On receiving the box the final time I was told the paint had been flattened prior to spraying. I guess this could have created the 'dirt' that's caused the lumps/spots. I guess this also means that I might not have quite so much paint to work with.

As for the cost, I'd rather not talk specifics because there were a few different factors and some smaller parts in addition to the box (that's a WHOLE 'nother story there  ). I didn't cheap out. Discussing the job beforehand, I emphasised quality over urgency and I was assured: "it will be like a sheet of glass". 

Perhaps surprisingly I'm reluctant to utterly bash the guy who sprayed it because he's tried to correct things along the way... but the results do unfortunately speak for themselves, and it's taken 7 months and a whole lot of aggro. to get here, even.

Was this a bad day? Were they cowboys? I think the truth is somewhere between the two extremes. In hindsight I don't think they were capable of delivering the standard of work they promised.

---

OK, story time's over. If I could pick your experience-laden brains again please. 

I was planning to wet sand starting at 2500. Do others think that 2000 is a better starting point?

What type of backing pad should I use? I understand that I should be flattening the 'peaks', ideally to the level of the troughs; this seems like it would call for quite a firm backing pad whereas most people on DW seem to use the Meg's foam ones.

Finally, should I wait any length of time before starting this correction? Allow the paint to harden any more (it has been baked)?

Thanks again.


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## lloydh (Feb 15, 2012)

lloydh said:


> I was planning to wet sand starting at 2500. Do others think that 2000 is a better starting point?
> 
> What type of backing pad should I use? I understand that I should be flattening the 'peaks', ideally to the level of the troughs; this seems like it would call for quite a firm backing pad whereas most people on DW seem to use the Meg's foam ones.
> 
> Finally, should I wait any length of time before starting this correction? Allow the paint to harden any more (it has been baked)?


Bump.

Planning to order the needed bits and pieces tonight/tomorrow morning so I'd be very grateful for any responses.


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## Detaylors (Nov 27, 2011)

My advice on carrying this job out would be to - Tape around the edges aprox 2 mil in. It will reduce the chance of burn through on any of the edges, Flat the paint by hand first of all with two thousand grit paper. Use a straight edge in a reflection to check your work. The two thousand grit should knock down all of the high points quite quickly. Work evenly at this stage. I would then recommend using 3000 grit trizact pads on a DA or Air sander, This will make polishing the sanding marks a lot easier. If the paint has been baked in an oven usually about 20-30 minutes, then it is fine to polish 

Like everything to do with spray painting and refinishing paint. Its all in the prep work as that is the foundation of your finish.


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## lloydh (Feb 15, 2012)

I now have in my possesion: Meg's Unigrit in 2000, 2500, 3000 and the backing pad; a Das-6 Pro, CG Hex Logic pads (green, white and black), Menz 203S and 85RD... oh and a [email protected] of related paraphernalia - microfibres, QD, Isopropanol, deionized water etc. A whole bunch of goodies. And people say this website makes your wallet hurt. 

Earlier I picked up a scrap panel that a local body shop generously donated so that I could practice my polishing technique.

Not wanting to waste my new Unigrit, I began gently with some leftover P1200 and then moved on to 3000 (big jump, I know), before finishing with the DA. I'm amazed how much the paint stood up to the P1200. I kept it very well lubricated with a 10:1 Dodo Juice Born Slippy solution. I don't know what vehicle the panel was from so it could have been some dragon's tooth German paint - possibly very different to the single-stage paint I'll be working with.

The test area polished up beautifully; factory orange peel gone, spider webs - thing of the past, lovely deep shine. I did inadvertently leave a few light sanding scratches towards the edge of the panel but I wasn't going for edge-to-edge perfection and the aforementioned 1500 to 3000 grit jump likely played a part also.

Detaylors, I actually picked up some blue 3M tape earlier, thinking about the edges. I did find it was slightly tricky sanding up to the taped edge and then buffing out the scratches on my practice panel though. Then again, 'tricky' is probably better than burned-through paint.

Having used a DA sander before, I can see how the trizact pads would leave a finish that would be easier to polish up. But I watched one of Junkman's videos where he tried some sanding pads and they looked like a bit of a handful to use. I'm concerned that I might not keep the pad level and might cause some real issues. That and I already feel like I've spent far more money that I would have liked. And I'm keen to get on with things. Fun starts for real tomorrow.


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## Detaylors (Nov 27, 2011)

lloydh said:


> I now have in my possesion: Meg's Unigrit in 2000, 2500, 3000 and the backing pad; a Das-6 Pro, CG Hex Logic pads (green, white and black), Menz 203S and 85RD... oh and a [email protected] of related paraphernalia - microfibres, QD, Isopropanol, deionized water etc. A whole bunch of goodies. And people say this website makes your wallet hurt.
> 
> Earlier I picked up a scrap panel that a local body shop generously donated so that I could practice my polishing technique.
> 
> ...


The main reason I mentioned taping up is because the paint is on top of wood and it wont react the same as metal. The wood will struggle to distribute any of the heat away similar to carbon fibre. Try and keep the heat down with polishing. In case you haven't heard of this method when sanding as you go down the grades change direction. This will ensure that you can see that you are removing the marks from the previous grade of sandpaper. I imagine it will be extremely easy to burn through on the edges of wood it might seem over cautious taping up but it won't if it avoids you burning through on an edge.


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