# Had an accident ? - Fake an Injury..



## The_Bouncer (Nov 24, 2010)

Very informative as to why insurance is up the swanny

Click Here


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

you wouldnt have to fake an injury if the insurance gave you what your cars worth in the event of an accident


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## skyinsurance (Jun 9, 2010)

big ben said:


> you wouldnt have to fake an injury if the insurance gave you what your cars worth in the event of an accident


I don't know if you had been tainted by a previous experience but your statement is ridiculous and unfortunately it is the people that go through with the moody PI claims who are a big reason for the rising premiums.


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

skyinsurance said:


> I don't know if you had been tainted by a previous experience but your statement is ridiculous and unfortunately it is the people that go through with the moody PI claims who are a big reason for the rising premiums.



so why dont all insurers agree a value of the car which both parties agree in the beginning?

why cant i find anyone who will agree a valuation with me over my car?

and why is it that if i do find someone willing to do this, they charge me extra? 

insurance is a joke

im sorry but if someone smashes into me, i get offered 50% of the value of my car, then i can only haggle 75% of the value. I have whiplash, so im going to claim to make sure im not out of pocket...


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## skyinsurance (Jun 9, 2010)

big ben said:


> so why dont all insurers agree a value of the car which both parties agree in the beginning?
> 
> why cant i find anyone who will agree a valuation with me over my car?
> 
> ...


* Value will change over the course of the policy.

* Agreed value insurers have been hit with fraudulent claims, also actually agreeing the value is a very difficult and involves a lot of administration

* Due to the administration involved

You'll find that a lot of insurers, especially specialists know the value of the cars they insure and will offer the true value of the car they are insuring.


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## con fox (Oct 30, 2008)

I see both sides of this and from your respective side's, each is correct.

However, we need to consider the following.
Insurence Companies are "for profit" organisations. Their foremost aim is to provide a divident to their shareholders. It is lees important how this is done, as long as it is within the remit of the law.
Example: many companies are involved in diverse industries in order to spread risk and maximise return on investment. This is true for many companies.
Look at GE, Siemens or electronics companies that partner up with specialist LCD or media groups to bring new specialist mobile fones to the market. And so the market grows.

Anyway, rather than engaging in less than legal practices, whynot become a shareholder in a solid well deversed company, ( maybe an insurence company).

So, this way you pay your insurence yearly and also buy stocks/shares aswell. But each year, you will see a return on your increasing shares. Over time, generally speaking, share values provide a sodid return and also each year you add to the volume of shares you own. So If the unthinkable happens and you crash, well you get a pay out from the insurence company, which may not be sufficient or satisfactory. But, you also have both the cumalitive value of your shares and the yearly divident.

In short, do as the insurer does and diversify. Spread the risk. All above board too.


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

skyinsurance said:


> * Value will change over the course of the policy.
> 
> * Agreed value insurers have been hit with fraudulent claims, also actually agreeing the value is a very difficult and involves a lot of administration
> 
> ...


so its our fault that insurers got hit with fraudulent claims? now we get offered a standard rate from a handbook, and its up to us to prove how much our car is worth... which in my situation wouldnt be easy, as it has low mielage etc, there arent many about...

administration invloved? :lol: well i would of thought it would be quite easy to do as you all work in front of a computer! a list of questions etc and as long as the customer told the truth that would be that, a value would be worked out!

and insurers know exactly what the car is worth to them, as less as they can get away with! even the specialists as you say, are quite good at not wanting to pay the money, even if it was an agreed valutation!


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## t1mmy (Dec 9, 2006)

big ben said:


> so its our fault that insurers got hit with fraudulent claims? now we get offered a standard rate from a handbook, and its up to us to prove how much our car is worth... which in my situation wouldnt be easy, as it has low mielage etc, there arent many about...
> 
> administration invloved? :lol: well i would of thought it would be quite easy to do as you all work in front of a computer! a list of questions etc and as long as the customer told the truth that would be that, a value would be worked out!
> 
> and insurers know exactly what the car is worth to them, as less as they can get away with! even the specialists as you say, are quite good at not wanting to pay the money, even if it was an agreed valutation!


The whole basis of insurance is to place the insured back in the same position as they were before the accident. I have no doubts that you know this.

The insurance company offer you a price for your vehicle, if you do not agree with it then it is up to the insured to prove the value.


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

t1mmy said:


> The insurance company offer you a price for your vehicle, if you do not agree with it then it is up to the insured to prove the value.


and that is why its a con! and many people including myself loose out!

as my car is old and there arent many decent examples around anymore, i can show all the reciepts for work carried out etc, but this wont alter the value

i will continue my search for a decent insurer who shares my views though


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

How someone can advocate fraud and then moan about insurance in the same paragraph is beyond me.

I could type an essay on how it all works, my own experiences of good and poor settlements etc, but to be honest there's little point in a discussion about settlement values when someone has already made their misinformed mind up on how the industry works.


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## PG Monkey (Apr 19, 2010)

skyinsurance said:


> I don't know if you had been tainted by a previous experience but your statement is ridiculous and unfortunately it is the people that go through with the moody PI claims who are a big reason for the rising premiums.


What a ridiculous statement.

Insurance companies are hand in glove with the credit hire companies and are milking each other and collectively screwing consumers.

There was a report on Radio 4 which proved beyond doubt that there are plenty of backhanders and referral payments going on between insurers and third-parties.

If they wanted to stop "moody" PI claims they would have no problems doing so.

Care to comment on that? :thumb:


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

In all fairness Ben your car and many vws are prone to being over priced and over valued by their owners, it comes with the territory, take the mk4 golf for example people are still asking £5000 for a 03/53 gt tdi with 100K on the clock! Yet there are mk5 tdis on dealer forecourts for the same price. Your corrado for example probably books at >£1500 but to you it's worth a lot more, I agree with you that the insurers are out to bend you over and give you as little as possible but there are always different opinions when valuing a car.


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

Shiny said:


> How someone can advocate fraud and then moan about insurance in the same paragraph is beyond me.
> 
> I could type an essay on how it all works, my own experiences of good and poor settlements etc, but to be honest there's little point in a discussion about settlement values when someone has already made their misinformed mind up on how the industry works.


i am not supporting fraud, just going on mine and others experiences with insurance compaines and their low settlements. Its more of a dig



bigmc said:


> In all fairness Ben your car and many vws are prone to being over priced and over valued by their owners, it comes with the territory, take the mk4 golf for example people are still asking £5000 for a 03/53 gt tdi with 100K on the clock! Yet there are mk5 tdis on dealer forecourts for the same price. Your corrado for example probably books at >£1500 but to you it's worth a lot more, I agree with you that the insurers are out to bend you over and give you as little as possible but there are always different opinions when valuing a car.


i know what you are saying, but my car would sell for at least 8k maybe 10k, and thats why i am going into one a little... No insurance company would value it at that though unless it was an agreed value as you say, exactly my reason for posting what i have in the first place.


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

If the market value is £10k, then you get £10k.

However if the market value is 5k, you will get 5k.

Market value is the pre accident value of your car based on mileage, condition etc. Not what you think it is worth, not the forecourt value of a replacement, but the realistic price if you were to sell it. That would be your financial asset loss.

90% plus of the time total loss offers are fair and reasonable. The bad press comes in when people get an offer well below what the car is worth to them or what they think it is worth, rather than facing the fact of the true value of their car.

If you are ever unhappy with an offer and it can't be resolved with the insurers, then there is the ombudsman, it rarely gets this far as the insurers get charged per case even if they are in the right! Independent valuations usually then sort it out.

Modified/unique/classic cars are a different kettle of fish though.


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

Shiny said:


> Modified/unique/classic cars are a different kettle of fish though.


and i would class mine as all 3 :lol: and why i struggle with insurance... im not basing on what my car is valued to me, but what i actually would get if i were to sell it. If someone offered me 20k i wouldnt sell it, so its worth a lot more than what i would get either way. At least with agreed valuation i wouldnt feel so screwed.


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## lofty (Jun 19, 2007)

Shiny said:


> If the market value is £10k, then you get £10k.
> 
> However if the market value is 5k, you will get 5k.
> 
> ...


If my house burns down tonight my insurance company will rebuild it and replace everything inside it.They wont offer me £50 for my panasonic tv because that it what is worth if I sell it, they will give me a new one so that I am no worse off.Why do they offer what your car is worth if you sold it , not what it will cost to replace?We buy insurance to cover unexpected loss, but this does not seem to be the case when it comes to car insurance.I have never claimed on my car insurance but the growth of Gap insurance tells me the system does not properly look after its customers, which will lead to some people thinking , 'well they screw us so we will screw them back'.I'm not having a go at anyone here btw,just asking a question.:thumb:


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## Shiny (Apr 23, 2007)

The purpose of insurance is to put you back in the same financial position as you were before the loss. Therefore claims are settled on an indemnity basis based on current market value. This is all insurance law set when ships were at war or whenever it was. Without this, people would in effect be better off or profiting from a claim, rather than indemnified.

House insurance is an exception to the rule whereby cover is on a "new for old" basis.

Gap insurance is to cover the fact that your outstanding loan is worth more than the car. If you were to sell the car, you'd still have pay any outstanding loan, so it wouldn't be reasonable to expect a motor insurer to pay out more than a car is worth just because somebody owes more than it is worth.


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## PaulN (Jan 17, 2008)

Tell you what insurance companys are as bad as British Gas, Seven trent, banks etc, Enjoyed the high life when raking it in now its hard times they are all moaning.....

Seven trent / British Gas change the pipes when you should have and not just last minute repairs.....

Insurance companys.. Concentrate more on weeding out this new no win no fee culture and only deal with good companys and good customers.

Jerry Maguire had the right idea!!!!


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## skyinsurance (Jun 9, 2010)

big ben said:


> so its our fault that insurers got hit with fraudulent claims? now we get offered a standard rate from a handbook, and its up to us to prove how much our car is worth... which in my situation wouldnt be easy, as it has low mielage etc, there arent many about...


I'm not saying it is your fault at all, I am saying that insurers who offer agreed value clauses have had their fingers burnt hence why a lot have stopped doing them. If you ran a business and a product you sold was losing money, would you continue to offer it?



big ben said:


> administration invloved? :lol: well i would of thought it would be quite easy to do as you all work in front of a computer! a list of questions etc and as long as the customer told the truth that would be that, a value would be worked out!


I'm well placed to answer this as a part of my job used to be dealing with the customer and underwriter when agreeing the value. Trust me, it is an absolute pain in the rear end. A large percentage of customers will over value their vehicle, some will add the money they have spent on modifications and maintenance on top of the price they paid for the car then expect to get that figure as an agreed valuation. More often that not it is extremely hard to find a happy medium between the customer and the underwriter, as I say there is a lot of administration involved.



big ben said:


> even the specialists as you say, are quite good at not wanting to pay the money, even if it was an agreed valutation!


An agreed value policy should be exactly that, if the car is a total loss, the customer is paid out the fulll agreed value figure minus the policy excess, no arguements. Our agreed value policies are certainly like this.

Bare in mind when reading my answers that I work for one specialist who deal with modified, import and performance cars which is a niche part of the insurance industry.

Ollie
Sky Insurance


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## SimonBash (Jun 7, 2010)

big ben said:


> and i would class mine as all 3 :lol: and why i struggle with insurance... im not basing on what my car is valued to me, but what i actually would get if i were to sell it. If someone offered me 20k i wouldnt sell it, so its worth a lot more than what i would get either way. At least with agreed valuation i wouldnt feel so screwed.


If you were able to demonstrate that the true market value of your car was £10k of whatever insurers would struggle to disagree with you.

They often ask for comprable market examples to support the amount you feel your car is worth.

Keeping pictures of the car to show its true condition along with receipts for all work etc helps.

If I was you I would try Greenlight as they seem to have a good understanging of Fast VAG motors and also accomodate mods etc.

If you go on the MK5 Golf GTI forum Tony from Greenlight is an active forum contributor.


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## skyinsurance (Jun 9, 2010)

PG Monkey said:


> What a ridiculous statement.
> 
> Insurance companies are hand in glove with the credit hire companies and are milking each other and collectively screwing consumers.
> 
> ...


I agree with you, the companies you mention are a major factor in the rising premiums most people are seeing.

On a personal note I've had calls from these type of conmpanies trying to persuade me to claim for PI for a very low speed rear end (non fault) shunt I had last year.

Having said that, it doesn't take a lot to say no to these companies.

Ollie
Sky Insurance


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## GrahamKendall (Sep 8, 2009)

Shiny said:


> The purpose of insurance is to put you back in the same financial position as you were before the loss. Therefore claims are settled on an indemnity basis based on current market value. This is all insurance law set when ships were at war or whenever it was. Without this, people would in effect be better off or profiting from a claim, rather than indemnified.
> 
> Slight Conflict in the above statement..... please explain why an insurer will pay less than the forecourt value of a car I.E. what it is worth to sell?? If I am not mistaken you would have to buy a replacement car.... so this would indeed leave us severely out of pocket, thus NOT in the same financial position as before the accident! not to mention if it was a no fault claim the premium increasing for no apparent reason, which is a complete and utter joke.
> 
> And being in the shipping business, all shipping insurance and P&I was derived from Lloyds of London which is a completely different kettle of fish.


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## robj20 (Jan 20, 2009)

Classic policies are the way forward, no idea why they differ so much to a standard policy, i have agreed value which im very happy with and would leave me slightly up on what it actually owes me, yet i only pay about £300 a year.

I think we need more tailor made insurance policies, its actually cheaper to drive without insurance and risk all the legal crap, that should never be the case.


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