# Used Car Dealerships (Haggling)



## lobotomy (Jun 23, 2006)

Hi,

What is it these days with used car dealerships and haggling.

I'm trading my daily driver in for another DERV for the same purpose. The trade in I reckon is worth little (124'000mi). I approached an Evans Halshaw about a car, they offered me £900 for the trade in and wouldn't budge on the advertised price of the car.

I wasn't happy with the final cost and asked for a bit of movement (paying cash on the car) all they could offer was stripping out the warranty/breakdown cover/extras that they add on, so it would still be the full advertised price of the car, plus because the car is in a EH dealership 300miles away want £350 for transportation costs!

I asked them if they couldn't move on price can they give me a bit extra on trade in, drop the transport costs... nope nothing!

So all in all they are expecting me to pay £350 *more* than advertised price for the car!? I don't really feel I'm getting a deal. They say the car is best priced in the market (it is reasonable for non-private) but surely they must build in margin? Or do they just make money out of finance deals these days?

Maybe I'm getting old! Or tight haha!


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## Yowfailed (Mar 14, 2012)

If it were me I'd just tell them to shove it and find one somewhere else :thumb:

As a matter of interest, what's the last figure on the screen price of the car?


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

times are hard in our trade i normally run with between 15-25 cars in stock at present i have 8 and cant find anything to buy in anywhere so i am not about to give away what little stock i have for little profit, for example i had a guy trying to buy a 2006 ka for his daughter last week I had the car marked up for £2k he offered £1750 i declined so he walked another customer rang on saturday enq about car told him all about it ect he said as long as its described and i give it a service he would offer the asking price which i did he turned up loved the car and deal done away we go.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

If by your own admission the car is well priced....and they're giving you a cracking deal in your trade in motor what is the problem? Or you you have preferred to 'dance'.

"We'll give you £400 for your trade in; and the stays at screen price"

Followed by 3 hours of negotiation to end ip with the deal you have been offered from the outset? If anything it's good - stops older/shyer people getting a rubbish deal! Additionally the selling garage maybe don't make any (or little) money selling another dealerships car.

I would ensure the transport was free or just go and collect it yourself.


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

Walk away and go else where..

if there is no better else where.. pay up if you want the car


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## Krash (May 9, 2012)

It's a buyer's market I would go somewhere else, when I got my car in November dealer was more then happy to knock money off, have heard a few bad stories about the mentioned dealer aswell


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## lobotomy (Jun 23, 2006)

Yowfailed said:


> As a matter of interest, what's the last figure on the screen price of the car?


£9k & 5 years old, so not exactly a banger



justina3 said:


> times are hard in our trade i normally run with between 15-25 cars in stock at present i have 8 and cant find anything to buy in anywhere so i am not about to give away what little stock i have for little profit


Yeah I expect they work on very tight margins - But they must have it built into the price somewhere. He showed me the screen saying it was £1500 less at cost price - It doesn't take that to prep a car?



Bero said:


> If by your own admission the car is well priced....and they're giving you a cracking deal in your trade in motor what is the problem?
> 
> I would ensure the transport was free or just go and collect it yourself.


The trade in could be better - Have been offered £1200 and £1300 by other garages for similar price cars. Obviously they are offsetting the delta into their margin.



Rob_Quads said:


> Walk away and go else where..
> 
> if there is no better else where.. pay up if you want the car


I saw a car at VW garage £1000 more expensive for the car (similar mileage/age) but they were offering 2 years free servicing/warranty and they offered more for trade in, which probably made up the difference. The bodywork was lacking (stonechip city and a couple dings) thought I could do better elsewhere.

I was just amazed that they would even haggle, as much as I tried?? Especially with half-year coming up?


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## Yowfailed (Mar 14, 2012)

Sorry, you misunderstand. What's the last figure on the price. i.e £2995 where the 5 is the last figure. I only ask because a mate of mine works at a local EH dealership and he gives me a bit of info occasionally.


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## lobotomy (Jun 23, 2006)

Yowfailed said:


> Sorry, you misunderstand. What's the last figure on the price. i.e £2995 where the 5 is the last figure. I only ask because a mate of mine works at a local EH dealership and he gives me a bit of info occasionally.


6 (which I did think was odd!)


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## Yowfailed (Mar 14, 2012)

Now then. If I am to believe what my mate tells me................All EH cars begin their pricing strategy with a 1 at the end of the price. As the car ages on their forecourt (maybe month one =1, month two =2 not sure) then so the end figure moves from a 1 to a 4. After that its either to auction or to another pitch, usually auction. He says that you have a much better chance of a bargain if the sales figure ends with a 4??

Question is, am I having this and feeding you drivel or is it true? Maybe someone on here actually works for the EH group and can tell us both. Good luck with it anyway.


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

lobotomy said:


> Maybe I'm getting old! Or tight haha!


Maybe they don't want to sell cars , I'd go elsewhere let them miss their targets


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I always look at the cost to change, but salesmans attitude also counts, some from the large dealerships seem a bit stuck up, ones that tend to be family run or local traders are usually fine. I find supermarkets to be the tightest, yes i realise they trade on volume with lower profit margins but once you work out the actual costs to change they are not much cheaper. Its one reason why i won't buy from Motorpoint.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

I'm lead to believe that most of the negotiation room is in dealer finance and, especially in a franchised dealership, cash sales aren't all that tantalising for them. Obviously "Mikes Cars" down the road might be a bit more tempted with a cash sale for a cheap car (where he can exchange a wad of notes  rather than a card/cash sale) which he may or may not correctly put through his accounts.

Also, £1500 margin probably isn't massive in the grand scheme of things. Prep Costs are the obvious ones, but then 20% goes to the tax man so you're down to £1200 before you even start to take into account any other odds and sods that might get thrown into a deal as you're negotiating.


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## lobotomy (Jun 23, 2006)

It's listed on Pistonheads which says the add has been live for 3 weeks. No telling if it has been re-listed more than that, don't know what to read from that :S

I'm in no real hurry. I'm going to shop around. I would have bought it if they dropped the transport costs.


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## Mark M (Nov 29, 2006)

I had it with Stratstone with an A5 3.0 Tdi. I had no trade in and was paying cash, NO MOVEMENT. "We have priced it according to the market".

OK, let some other fool buy it then... Just told them that I did not understand the logic of no negotiation.

Much better with private sales in my opinion. All you do at a dealer is pay over the odds.


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Mark M said:


> .
> Much better with private sales in my opinion. All you do at a dealer is pay over the odds.


Well all that free coffee & biscuits are expensive you know :lol:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

I found it hard to get a car as well when I bought my last 2..

I don't understand their thoughts, and just walked away...

I explained they are the ones trying to sell something; I don’t have a piece of metal on my forecourt costing money....

Negotiation is a bit of an art, but both parties should be looking for a win/win outcome... and the price is always in the middle somewhere... just get to it quickly, state your final deal and SHUT THE H£LL UP.

When I swopped the XKR for the Abarth, I basically said:

I have this car and £XX cash… you change things about the way you want, but that is my full and final offer… it’s a fair price and you have room to move with the XKR….

I don't buy the "we have no profit in this sale" 100% BS... nothing on sale from professionals has no margin...

But instead of cold hard cash, maybe try and get other stuff flung into the deal...service, MOT, tax, tyres, etc etc

At the end of the day, some people just don't want to sell things at that moment in time... walk away and save your effort...

:thumb:


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## lobotomy (Jun 23, 2006)

Exactly what I pretty much did Cuey

They flashed up a screen which explained that at advertised price without all the crap they usually add on (warranties/services etc) they were selling the car at a £212 loss! So according to them it costs £1700 to ready a car from cost price to sale?! Either they are running a rather risky business model or it doesn't cost £1700 to prep and they have hidden their margin in these costs.

My last word to the guy was that if I lived in Plymouth the car would be costing me £350 less and essentially could they not consume the transport costs. The answer was no.

I pass this dealership every Friday, and every Friday a transporter is blocking my lane unloading cars... Surely this is a sign of regular stock rotation and these transport costs must be consumed into overheads of the business? Or at least much higher than individual car sales?

I'm holding out for the call in a couple days to see if I've come to a decision... Then I'll ask again.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

You would think so re: the trasport costs.... 

I have been looking at some cars going through the markets, then trying to spot them for sale at a later date... gets easy when you know the traders, and trust me, there is plenty of margin in their cars! :lol:

:thumb:


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## Adamk69 (Jun 13, 2011)

We have all bought and sold cars and as a seller I am always building a cushion into my asking price knowing that the buyer is gonna want to chip me and have a deal. We both end up with what we want or we walk away. 

Dealers are the same. There will be a margin regardless where the car is kept and yes the dealer would rather you financed it as there is a kick back from that to them as well as finance penetration is targeted. Transportation costs money but £350 sounds alot.

As a seller though I am often taken aback by the rather presumptious expectation of the buyer that I MUST give more of my money / profit away because it is 'expected'. As a buyer I am driving for a better deal... So, you have to box clever and be the salemans friend as he also earns from the deal and sometimes on the profit retained, if there is any, and profit margins on some cars are tight. 

Also, is the car a common model and colour ar is it a rarer more sought after option laden motor that will find another buyer tomorrow? It will effect the deal you can get to an extent. 

Best time to haggle is at the end of the month or even better the end of a quarter when both the sales persons target is tight and the dealers bonus structure may be affected by under perfomance. Watch the stock list. My god mother followed this advice on a 59 plate Freelander. When she finally enquired about the car the sales manager commented that it has a lot of interest implying she needed to be quick, she had been watching it for 6 weeks in which time the sticker price had dropped £500. She told him, he slinked away, she walked after politley saying she would be in touch but left her details. She signed the deal on the last day of the mth for coming upto £2k's worth of discount and free extras / servicing etc. 

If they sniff a deal they will want your business. You do risk loosing it if someone else turns up and pays the price but then you are not happy with the deal so no great loss... Also talk to the dealer who has it in stock and see if they will better the deal, they have targets too...


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Yowfailed said:


> Now then. If I am to believe what my mate tells me................All EH cars begin their pricing strategy with a 1 at the end of the price. As the car ages on their forecourt (maybe month one =1, month two =2 not sure) then so the end figure moves from a 1 to a 4. After that its either to auction or to another pitch, usually auction. He says that you have a much better chance of a bargain if the sales figure ends with a 4??
> 
> Question is, am I having this and feeding you drivel or is it true? Maybe someone on here actually works for the EH group and can tell us both. Good luck with it anyway.


Nope thats exactly how EH works.

Went to look at a Corsa for the wifes cousin zero movement on screen price despite it being there for 4 weeks and actually its still there so 6 weeks so far.

I just said goodbye thanks for your time and walked when he said no lol.

Round the corner at a Hyundai garage got a year older car for £3k less same miles too and a slightly better spec.


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## alipman (May 10, 2007)

I went to the Leicester EH for a Ford SMAX and Galaxy. Told exactly the same in terms of the price is all it is.
He conceded that may be able to knock a couple of hundred off to make a deal but I certainly got the impression that they wouldnt be knocking £1k off.

Problem I have is that Galaxy models are quite pricey, I am looking for a 3 year old model with less than 60k on clock. Most are around £12k+ for a Ghia version.

I will note the 1,2,3 and 4 at the end of the price.


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## lobotomy (Jun 23, 2006)

Grizzle said:


> Nope thats exactly how EH works.
> 
> Went to look at a Corsa for the wifes cousin zero movement on screen price despite it being there for 4 weeks and actually its still there so 6 weeks so far.
> 
> ...


So what's a 6? 6weeks on the Plymouth forecourt? Haha maybe they'll move it closer to me and I won't have to pay transport after all lol!


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

lobotomy said:


> I saw a car at VW garage £1000 more expensive for the car (similar mileage/age) but they were offering 2 years free servicing/warranty and they offered more for trade in, which probably made up the difference. The bodywork was lacking (stonechip city and a couple dings) thought I could do better elsewhere.
> 
> I was just amazed that they would even haggle, as much as I tried?? Especially with half-year coming up?


Surely you know the exact numbers i.e. exact cost to change not "probably make up the difference". Thats all that matters.

Essentially the car was as cheap as anywhere else you could find and you still wanted it cheaper? Maybe hes got it marked up at his best cost to try and get it moved?

Personally I can't be arsed with the whole doing a deal. Give me your best price and I will decide if I want it. I've walked away from 1 dealer because of the amount of screwing around he was doing when talking numbers.


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## alipman (May 10, 2007)

Rob_Quads said:


> Personally I can't be arsed with the whole doing a deal. Give me your best price and I will decide if I want it. I've walked away from 1 dealer because of the amount of screwing around he was doing when talking numbers.


When you have done this do they drop by much?

Is it realistic for them to drop say £1k in a £10k car?


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## Rob_Quads (Jul 17, 2006)

I doubt you would get a 1K discount on a 1K car no.

When I have returned I have been give a straight up price before from the same guy when I gave them a second chance and told them I had been around so I know what the competition is offering. As it happened he could still not match another dealer so he lost out.


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## EcosseGP (Jul 5, 2011)

I would tell them to shove it and look to sell your car privately and contact EH where the car you're looking at buying is and see what deal they'll do for either cash or with a trade in. It'll not cost you £350 to collect it even if you fly/train to the garage then drive it home ... 
Done it many a time yes it's a hassle but hey if it keeps money in your pocket ..

Think that EH commission is done on car sales rather than car selling price .. They have a sales target (number) to reach and if they meet there target the garage gets a bonus. So it's better for them to lose a small amount of money on one car that not make the sales target if that makes sense.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

interesting thread this.

When i worked for vw on the docks the company ECM charge the dealers x amount i think it was £600 per car to transport from the storage site to the dealer. My boss at the time bought a golf from the dealer which was a 5 min walk from the site and got £600 knocked off instantly plus what ever deal he could get. The reason why it costs in your case £350 is its all to do with insurance for the transport company etc at the end of the day the transport companies need paying.

Iam almost certain this is how it work but i could be wrong.


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## justina3 (Jan 11, 2008)

£600 for transport thats bonkers i bought a car on line from manheinm sctoland and they only charged me £225 to deliver to wales and that was a one of cost you would expect someone who uses the delivery company often to get a much better deal


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