# Help and Advice need, Car reported STOLEN



## zcomputer5 (Aug 31, 2007)

Hello everyone, I bought a car on the 28th of June 2011 and I hpi checked the car with mytextcheck and autocheck and it can back all clear however I was driving on the motorway today I was pulled over by the police for the vehicle being registered as stolen a few days ago. As a result I was arrested though they soon realised I was innocent. However the situation is as follows,

The person who sold me the car bought is 2 weeks previous to me from a car garage on a cloned/fraudulant credit credit. The garage registered the payment and then gave the seller the car.

He then sold the car to me where I met at his address and sold me the car and I registered the v5 in my name which I now have. Since then the payment of the seller to the garage failed and the garage has just reported it stole.

I was wondering if anyone could give me some help as I have been been in a situation like this before and not too sure what to do. I have a guarantee on my HPI checks but I am not sure they are still vaild because it has only just been reported stolen. Also would the seller have taken ownership of the car as they paid by credit card so then they would be legally entitiled to sell it to me? 

Any help me would greatly appreciated, thanks.


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## JenJen (Jun 30, 2010)

I would speak to the police and get advuce from them its a civil case but what they can do is open a case so if u get pulled again u give number and its all there. I had to do this with my current car as the previous owner refused to give me v5 so its logged with Derbyshire police just incase this happened. 

Good luck


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## zcomputer5 (Aug 31, 2007)

JenJen said:


> I would speak to the police and get advuce from them its a civil case but what they can do is open a case so if u get pulled again u give number and its all there. I had to do this with my current car as the previous owner refused to give me v5 so its logged with Derbyshire police just incase this happened.
> 
> Good luck


The police seized the car and are currently investigating the incident, it just a shame it looks like I have lost £3400!!


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

unfortunately, I think the likely outcome is the car will be returned to the garage and you will not be refunded.

it is a bit unclear though on how it will pan out, with it being a non payment.. if that registers as theft instead of unpaid credit, if it does.. then you will not see your money or car again, as it will be treated as handling stolen goods.


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## MrBoJangles (Feb 18, 2011)

Have a look here: http://www.hpicheck.com/furniture/guarantee.html


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

guessin they have the person u bought the car from, absolutely gutted for you anybodys worst nightmare. hope you get it sorted one way or another.


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## Raife (Jul 14, 2009)

You went to the guys house when you bought it right?

100% he wasn't just parked on the driveway of a house where people were at work?

If you have the guys address I would hope it could be sorted for you.... good luck.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

i doubt anything will happen to you personally, either you will end up having to pay the money to effectively buy the car as yours with the money going to the correct party or and more likely you wont see it again, regarding the money its gone. 

HPI checks are not completely fool proof at all as much as anything they are a guide. i mean i know mine is ex personel british forces germany i.e a UK car with UK everything majority being bought in the UK but delivered in germany (they get away with the VAT), which means proving its history to a degree is logbook only an HPI check only brings basic information and unless you start looking well to a degree you might not register the importance BFPO post codes.


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## Lee gsi (Aug 19, 2007)

How did you pay for the car?

Did the guy go in the house where it ws beg sold, Did you go in?


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## kasman (Sep 10, 2009)

Gutted for you bud. This is another area where the law is well overdue for change. Why should the 3rd party be the one who pays the price!!


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## JenJen (Jun 30, 2010)

My hpi check cost me £70 and insured me against this happening I would give hpi company a call won't be first time they dealt with this sort of situation sadly won't be last. 

Hope police gave you reciept etc did the guy give you a reciept 
?


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

As most of the above have said I'm sorry but you're likely to lose the car and your £3400. HPI check means nothing as it was clear at the time of the check. The only thing you can try is making some arrangement with the garage that sold the car - they might try to arrange something mutually agreeable as you are both innocent parties. There's no guarantee so tread carefully and make sure you have checked with the police whether you're allowed to contact the garage owner.

You have been defrauded, as has the garage and the owner/bank of the credit card. If you paid him with a credit card you should be able to get all your money back. If you took out a personal loan to buy the car your *might* be able to get a resolution althought this is a lot more difficult than with a credit card.

Many people have fallen for the same thing. I suppose the lesson is to make sure everything is legit. What did the V5 have as the registered keeper? Seller or previous owner?


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## Ben_ZS (Sep 28, 2008)

Gutted to hear this mate, I hope they come to some sort of agreement.

Will you car insurance cover this?

Will the car be down as stolen recovered now?


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## Ming (Oct 16, 2007)

Having been involved in this a time or two this is how I see it panning out.
The law
The car will go back to the garage. They were the owner and had the vehicle taken from them by trick (Dodgy credit card) The fact that you then paid for this car means the vendor - the con artist who took it from the garage - stole the £3400:00 from you. The fact that he used a stolen car as part of the trick is only that, part of the trick. Unfortunately you were never the owner of the car.
If the garage was insured and had been paid then the car would belong to the insurance company that paid them out and they would often sell the car at a reasonable price to the looser (you).
If the car is properly forensically examined then there is a good chance the thief might be identified however as you are a member of this site you will probably have done a DW make over on it and potentially destroyed all forensic evidence
I assume that there will have been a bill of sale of some sort as is good practice in private sales. A 'sold as see' or some such.
If so this will be your best avenue for a link to the thief.
Ninhydren testing is very good at findin fingerprints on paper and there is quite a high success rate in matching them.
If the thief is identified and arrested and processed and the file gets past CPS and he goes to court and is found guilty (see mr Ming Cynicism creeping in there - Sorry) unless he is a wealthy man the chances of you getting compensation are to be honest not good. 
If he is found in possession of monies then they are often seized and can be used by way of compensation.
I am sorry to be a bit of a harbinger of doom but this is the way it usually pans out.
If i am honest your best course of action is through the 'My Check' site you used - and paid for - for recompense.
If i am honest I think they will try the line of 'It was clear and not recorded as stolen WHEN WE DID THE CHECK.'
As to how you stand with them I cannot offer advice other than speak to a motor industry biased solicitor for advice. It might be a few quid well spent.
I feel for you my friend as you are completely the innocent party.
I would hazard one further guess that the car in question was priced about 18 months to 2 years newer than it actually was and there was a 'good reason' why it had to be sold quickly.
Good luck with this and keep us posted.
Ming the Gloomy


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## Ming (Oct 16, 2007)

kasman said:


> Gutted for you bud. This is another area where the law is well overdue for change. Why should the 3rd party be the one who pays the price!!


Kasman
As much as I feel for the third party who, in your opinion, SHOULD loose out?
The garage was conned and the purchaser as well.
If you had sold your car and found the purchasor had given you false payment and subsequently the car appeared on someone elses drive would you just say.
'Never mind mate. I got conned out of £10,000:00 but feel free to keep MY car?' 
Of course not.
Unfortunately the third party the OP in this instance had £,400:00 stolen from him. The car was an aside that allowed the theft.
Ming the Legal Eagle


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## 80skid (Nov 9, 2009)

Personally, I think it should be the garage who should foot the bill, they where the ones who relinquished ownership of the vehicle to the con-man before they had the cleared funds in their account, in my eyes, the garage are more at fault than the OP.


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## JenJen (Jun 30, 2010)

How did he get the V5 thou surely he had something from the conman? Im going through a situ just now where i had to fill in a V62 which is to get a new V5 but first they contact the owner of said car to find out it you defo own it, so the guy must have given the op something in order to get his V5?


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

80skid said:


> Personally, I think it should be the garage who should foot the bill, they where the ones who relinquished ownership of the vehicle to the con-man before they had the cleared funds in their account, in my eyes, the garage are more at fault than the OP.


are you sure?

if he paid with a stolen credit card then the funds could well have cleared, the car taken, then the real credit card owner sees the transaction and has the monies recovered by the credit card issuer...
so the garage ends up with nothing, therfor unpaid for the car.

i don't agree the garage should lose out..
but i also don't think the 3rd party SHOULD lose out, but they will..

unfortunately the guilty party will likely never be brought to justice.
or the money recovered to the OP


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## Chicane (Mar 31, 2011)

might be a bit of a long shot, but would the garage not have him on cctv?


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## zcomputer5 (Aug 31, 2007)

Thank you for your responces guys, I will add a little more info.

Basically the person I bought the car from lived in a large apartment block which he came out of the entrance, so he could or could not of actually lived at the address provided. I did ask to look around his apartment and asked for a bill however I never enfored it and he came up with an excuse (bigmistake I guess)

Secondly both car check websites I done the checks on are using the line that at the time of the report it wasn't reported stolen, but only after, however it is now registered with them as being stolen before they gave their report. I am not sure if I will be able to get my money back this way or not.

The police officer did say they were going to be doing forensics on the car, thank fully I never actually cleaned the inside of the car since purchase however he did say he washed it before I bought it. Though I am not hopeful of getting a result regarding forensics.

Very stupidly I bought the car with only the buyers section of the logbook, though I did manage to send it away and get the logbook in my name, how this is only proof of being a registered keeper and not an owner.

I just happened to be arrested at the most inconvient time possible as I was on my way to a job interview which caused me to have to withdraw my application.


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## zcomputer5 (Aug 31, 2007)

Chicane said:


> might be a bit of a long shot, but would the garage not have him on cctv?


I woud of thought so. I was thinking at the time of purchse should I ask to take a photograph of the seller but there are many things I wished I had done!


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## zcomputer5 (Aug 31, 2007)

JenJen said:


> My hpi check cost me £70 and insured me against this happening I would give hpi company a call won't be first time they dealt with this sort of situation sadly won't be last.
> 
> Hope police gave you reciept etc did the guy give you a reciept
> ?


Unfortunately the police didn't give me anything, I don't have a crime reference number as of yet. Also I didn't get a receipt from the seller as I thought a hand written agreement wouldn't mean much.


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## Maggi200 (Aug 21, 2009)

Doesn't sound right. If the log book came back in your name. YOU are the legal owner. YOU are the only one who can report it stolen. If they let the car go and registered it in his name before the payment cleared, I can't see how you are involved. The sale was between you and him and he was the legal registered owner at the time, you did you checks and at the time it was all clear. I really can't see how they can just take it off you and not give you anything, even a reference?!


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## zcomputer5 (Aug 31, 2007)

maggi133 said:


> Doesn't sound right. If the log book came back in your name. YOU are the legal owner. YOU are the only one who can report it stolen. If they let the car go and registered it in his name before the payment cleared, I can't see how you are involved. The sale was between you and him and he was the legal registered owner at the time, you did you checks and at the time it was all clear. I really can't see how they can just take it off you and not give you anything, even a reference?!


But the problem is the logbook isn't proof of ownership it only shows you are the registered keeper of the car.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

maggi133 said:


> Doesn't sound right. If the log book came back in your name. YOU are the legal owner. YOU are the only one who can report it stolen. If they let the car go and registered it in his name before the payment cleared, I can't see how you are involved. The sale was between you and him and he was the legal registered owner at the time, you did you checks and at the time it was all clear. I really can't see how they can just take it off you and not give you anything, even a reference?!


This is absolute rubbish. 'Registered Keeper' and 'Owner' are not the same thing. For the very reason that is being discussed in this thread anyone can report a car stolen.

If you buy a car at 1230 and it get's stolen at 1300 you'd like to think you could report it as stolen even if you are not the registered keeper on the database yet.

The reason you should always get a receipt when you buy a car (or anything) privately is that you must always have proof that there was a contract in place between (You) the buyer and the seller. If you don't do this then it's easy for the previous owner that you bought it in good faith from to scam you and report it as stolen. Police will investigate and look for hard evidence. If there is no hard evidence it can be difficult to prove who is the 'owner'. Is it the person who is saying their item was stolen or is it the person who is saying they bought it in good faith and handed over the cash? This should be date *and time stamped* especially with a motor-vehicle. If you sell it at 1230 and they get a speeding ticket at 1345 how do you prove it wasn't you who was speeding.


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## Maggi200 (Aug 21, 2009)

Fair enough, but why did the garage wait for however long before reporting it? WHy did they even release the car without feeling they had their money safe?


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

maggi133 said:


> Fair enough, but why did the garage wait for however long before reporting it? WHy did they even release the car without feeling they had their money safe?


Fraudster pays with (stolen) credit card.

Garage suspects nothing (why would they?). Funds clear. All is well.

Credit card owner returns from 6 week cruise to find strange purchase on credit card. Credit card company stop card and investigate.

6 weeks later garage get told the transaction was fraudulent and will be reversed.

These things can take days/weeks/months to get noticed.


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## Ming (Oct 16, 2007)

Ladies and Gents
This is why we are advised to buy and sell more expensive items with Bankers drafts.
Once presented and verified they are classed as cash.A skimmed card will initially show up as a bona fide transaction and will show funds cleared. It might be several days before the bank refuses to honour the transaction. It isonly at this point that the garage realises that they have been 'had'. They then report it as stolen.
TBH if I had gone to purchase a car and all the present vendor had was the new owner slip dated only a couple of weeks ago I would run a mile. especially if said owner came out of a block of flats and did not invite me into the flat that was his to sit down, have a cup of tea, haggle, etc etc etc.
Its an expensive lesson for the OP and hopefully a wake up call for the rest of us that not everyone out there tells the truth.
The old adage of 'If it seems to be too good to be true, then, it probably is' springs to mind.
Ming the world Weary


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## zcomputer5 (Aug 31, 2007)

Ming said:


> Ladies and Gents
> This is why we are advised to buy and sell more expensive items with Bankers drafts.
> Once presented and verified they are classed as cash.A skimmed card will initially show up as a bona fide transaction and will show funds cleared. It might be several days before the bank refuses to honour the transaction. It isonly at this point that the garage realises that they have been 'had'. They then report it as stolen.
> TBH if I had gone to purchase a car and all the present vendor had was the new owner slip dated only a couple of weeks ago I would run a mile. especially if said owner came out of a block of flats and did not invite me into the flat that was his to sit down, have a cup of tea, haggle, etc etc etc.
> ...


Hindsight is a wonderful thing, I been I did call the garage on the day of purchase to check everything was ok and they verified it was.


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## Lee gsi (Aug 19, 2007)

Ming there are also fake bankers drafts too.

Noting you could have done really.


When I do buy a car I always make sure I go IN the house of the owner, Be it to sort the paperwork out ot 'to use the toilet' just so you know they have some sort of tie to that house.


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

JenJen said:


> My hpi check cost me £70


Bloody hell did you get a 24 carat gold one


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

Ming said:


> Ladies and Gents
> This is why we are advised to buy and sell more expensive items with Bankers drafts.
> Once presented and verified they are classed as cash


Where does that advice come from exactly?

They are classed as worthless when they are hot drafts, plenty of people have fell foul of this, pretty sure there is a story of a guy who sold a 25k M3 and even checked the draft with the bank who said it was fine, obviously it wasn't and to my knowledge he never got a penny back despite them saying it was fine


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## zcomputer5 (Aug 31, 2007)

So I was just wondering, I am now looking at getting another car, but how can I ensure that it is not stolen as clearly HPI checks aren't worth the paper they are written on. I was this time thinking alone the lines of

Taking a photograph of the seller
Verifying ID and bill to the house they live in
Get a signed and video recorded receipt of purchase
Verify V5 is correct
hpi check

Hopefully if I have all this information, if the seller is a criminal then they will back out of the sell or I will have enough evidence to pursue a legal case if the car turns out to be stolen.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

zcomputer5 said:


> So I was just wondering, I am now looking at getting another car, but how can I ensure that it is not stolen as clearly HPI checks aren't worth the paper they are written on. I was this time thinking alone the lines of
> 
> Taking a photograph of the seller
> Verifying ID and bill to the house they live in
> ...


TBH I would get nervous at someone asking for all of the above when trying to buy a car off me.

HPI checks are not worth a lot as you have discovered IMHO other than checking there's no finance on the vehicle but even that isn't always accurate.

Even buying from a reputable dealer can land you in a similar mess if they were duped into taking the car on their books.

This is where paying with finance has a definite upside either credit card or HP.

I'd spend more money on mechanical checks, go through the service book, MOT's and receipts with a fine toothcomb. I find that most people will have photo's of their cars over time even if it's just in the background of the pic > this is a good way of confirming 'ownership'.

Explain you've been previously scammed and ask for evidence of ownership.

If you're not happy walk away but tbh - there's always a risk when buying a used item.


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## zcomputer5 (Aug 31, 2007)

grantwils said:


> TBH I would get nervous at someone asking for all of the above when trying to buy a car off me.
> 
> HPI checks are not worth a lot as you have discovered IMHO other than checking there's no finance on the vehicle but even that isn't always accurate.
> 
> ...


Do you think that I will be able to get my car tax back for the car as I paid for 6 months car tax as well! I am the registered keeper so I am thinking this should be possible?


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## CraigQQ (Jan 20, 2011)

i was thinking the same grant.. i'd be thinking it was dodgy asking for all that..

like they had some kind of scam going..


and im not sure but i would think as you bought the tax if you contact the police or garage if they got it back they might give you the disc to recover the money for it.

really feel sorry for you mate.. its a sh*tty situation to be in,


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## Lloyd71 (Aug 21, 2008)

You could always do 'surveillance' on those flats. If he appears, break his legs and rob him.

Even if you get caught you'll only get a slap on the wrist.


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## zcomputer5 (Aug 31, 2007)

Lloyd71 said:


> You could always do 'surveillance' on those flats. If he appears, break his legs and rob him.
> 
> Even if you get caught you'll only get a slap on the wrist.


The problem is he told me on the day he lived in flat 1b, however I have since found out that the flat doesn't exsist. I am not quite sure what I would do if I found him, but put it this way I wouldn't wanna be him when I see him next!


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## woodybeefcake (Oct 12, 2008)

I'd be after knee capping him! Was it in the area you live?

Gutted for you mate, I literally couldn't afford to lose that kind of money!


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## zcomputer5 (Aug 31, 2007)

woodybeefcake said:


> I'd be after knee capping him! Was it in the area you live?
> 
> Gutted for you mate, I literally couldn't afford to lose that kind of money!


Nor can I as i'm unemployed!


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## JenJen (Jun 30, 2010)

GJM said:


> Bloody hell did you get a 24 carat gold one


Checked everything and had a insurance attached to it, if something happened within 14days of buying the car i could claim back up to £10k of the purchase price.

Seemed worth it so i went with it  glad i did.


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

zcomputer5 said:


> Do you think that I will be able to get my car tax back for the car as I paid for 6 months car tax as well! I am the registered keeper so I am thinking this should be possible?


V14 if you have the disc, but I'm guessing you dont.

If this is the case then you need a V33, think you can only request the V33 by telephone or get one from a DVLA counter.


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

JenJen said:


> Checked everything and had a insurance attached to it, if something happened within 14days of buying the car i could claim back up to £10k of the purchase price.
> 
> Seemed worth it so i went with it  glad i did.


The 10k cover has been around for a while but never cost that much.

When you say it checked everything, did that include a full NMR investigation.

I always do NMR checks on the trade system but usually opt out of the investigation which does cost a good bit more, just £70 seems quite steep.


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## JenJen (Jun 30, 2010)

If you are the "registered keeper" still, do you still have the insurance running also? maybe speaking to the police and clarifying these points as you dont want to be slapped with a fine, also make them aware you are submitting a refund so the car will also not be taxed...


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## JenJen (Jun 30, 2010)

GJM said:


> The 10k cover has been around for a while but never cost that much.
> 
> When you say it checked everything, did that include a full NMR investigation.
> 
> I always do NMR checks on the trade system but usually opt out of the investigation which does cost a good bit more, just £70 seems quite steep.


cant remember, i would need to check what it covered. The lady selling me the car had made me aware that a previous car she owned on the plate it was on (private plate) had been stolen/recovered. So i wanted to be sure i had all the checks covered. This did flag the alert and the company called me to say it was all ok etc... so i was happy and proceeded with the purchase.


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## GJM (Jul 19, 2009)

It's quite common for markers to show up in situations like above, have seen it a number of times.

Finance can also show outstanding when it's clear, this is usually easy to clarify.

The above is all included in a basic check, NMR check costs extra and the full blown investigation bumps it up for sure.

On the trade system they now flag up and prompt you to carry out an NMR investigation on the basis that the car has had more than one owner


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## sammatty (Jul 28, 2010)

grantwils said:


> TBH I would get nervous at someone asking for all of the above when trying to buy a car off me.
> 
> HPI checks are not worth a lot as you have discovered IMHO other than checking there's no finance on the vehicle but even that isn't always accurate.
> 
> ...


If I am correct, you would only have to purchase a very small part of any transaction in order to be protected on the whole transaction by your credit card company!


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