# Scholl concepts



## Scrim-1-

Just wondering who stocks the scholl concepts range in the uk?
cheers


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## steview

Spautopia


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## Magic Detail

Shinearama stock them mate. Forum sponsors


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## ronwash

shinearama.


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## Scrim-1-

Thing is shinerama only do the 1kg size polishes, only want the smaller ones to try out atm.


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## Deeper Detail

Spautopia and the price includes delivery last time I ordered :thumb:


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## Roy

Spautopia are the UK largest stockist, they have been supplying the OEM for 15+ years. Also they have the smaller sizes, including S17+, S30+ etc in 250g.


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## HeavenlyDetail

I would speak to Phil at Shinearama about this as hes a cracking guy and one of the most helpful online retailers ive spoken to well half hour chat hahahahaha. 
I will be purchasing my products from him as his delivery was also first class and packed superbly. Mega thumb up from me.


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## James0911

Scrim-1- said:


> Thing is shinerama only do the 1kg size polishes, only want the smaller ones to try out atm.


shinearama do 250mls as well... on page two of the scholl concepts (search by brand thingy ma jiggy):thumb:


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## Beau Technique

What you will find is that some dont actually stock oe 25ml or 500ml but will decant if your confortable with that. Ive always purchased from spautopia since april last year but have pruchased from shinearama also. Both are a very good service. Personally, I wouldnt worry about size of bottle as you wont be moving on from it once you start. Simple to use. The odd ones suffer from holograms with S17+ but after learning how to hone there technique, works fine. Took to it like a duck to water when I first started on the stuff. Had to advise no end of folks how to use it so if your stuck, pop a pm.:thumb:


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## Scrim-1-

Thanks alot guys will put an order In with spautopia, I was looking for a polish to sit between 3m extra fine and fcp would s17+ be the one ?


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## Scrim-1-

Ordered the s17+, also what pad would you recomend using for this ?
cheers


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## Beau Technique

Scrim-1- said:


> Ordered the s17+, also what pad would you recomend using for this ?
> cheers


Depends on the level of cut you want it to do. My main pads are wool and 3M yellow but have started using Scholl orange sandwich pad. Type of pad desiphers the level of cut or finish.


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## Scrim-1-

I think ill try it out at first with 3m yellow pad see how i get on with it.


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## Reflectology

I get mine from Spautopia, I did start out with an Orange Scholl Pad but soon switched to the Spider Sandwich Pad, which gives results like no other pad....I also favour the Farecla Total polishing pad as it fits in perfectly with S17+....a lot say its what you prefer to use but a little help along the way will stop you wasting money testing....i have tested a lot of pads with the Scholl Range as I am sure my good mate Scott has...go with what folk mention in this case and you will not need any other brand of polishes in your kit....


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## Deeper Detail

I've used wool and the spider pads as previously recommended by Russ and Scott for heavier cutting and a farecla g mop for a extreme case lately with the s17+ (Flat sanding and bring back up to a great shine on a respray) 

Like Russ says though, it saves on wasting product and also going to aggressive if you go with what's been advised on pad. 
With softer pads it's amazing what s17+ can achieve on it's own prior to a final finishing compound.... 
Supergloss I found amazing in terms of work time and finish this weekend even in direct direct sunlight....


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## Kris1986

The black pad from Scholl works brilliant with S17+ ( slightly light pressure and around 2000 rpm)

take a look  http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=117255


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## Beau Technique

Olivier from Scholl concepts had mentioned to both me and Russ that S17+ would give best results on an Orange sandwich pad starting @1500rpm and run for 1 minute then the abrasives would be spent. Ive not tried this way personally as I would imagine it to not fnish down as well as other methods such as the zenith. I did start out with wool and Scholl black foam waffles but found that the waffles didnt do the finish enough justice ( no disrespect Kris1986 ) After much trialing and testing. The 3M pads, wool and Scholl orange sandwich just fit perfect in a complete cycle all with 1 polish.


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## HeavenlyDetail

Got to be honest ive had superb results with s30+ and the black pad , mainly maching at between 1500 and 1800rpm , my scholl shelf is gonna collapse soon 
Im not feeling the orange pad at all , it seems to rigid for my liking.


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## Exclusive Car Care

not tried their pads but some of their polishes are great..love S17+:thumb:


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## Roy

Heavenly said:


> Got to be honest ive had superb results with s30+ and the black pad , mainly maching at between 1500 and 1800rpm , my scholl shelf is gonna collapse soon
> Im not feeling the orange pad at all , it seems to rigid for my liking.


Glad your liking them mate, I told you they were excellent. Have you tried S3 Gold yet?

Two thousand grit sanding marks removed with two passes, S3 Gold and Spider Pad!


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## Scrim-1-

Tried out S17+ Yesterday with an orange Hexpad, i Got some very nice correction with it was very happy with the outcome.


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## Beau Technique

Heavenly said:


> Got to be honest ive had superb results with s30+ and the black pad , mainly maching at between 1500 and 1800rpm , my scholl shelf is gonna collapse soon
> Im not feeling the orange pad at all , it seems to rigid for my liking.


The orange pad fits in nicely for between wool and finishing. Its not always needed but when it is. It does a sterling job of going virtually down to lsp. Ive only had one play with S30+ and it would seem it needs a more sterner pad to coax it into play time. Surprised it works on the black waffle.


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## Beau Technique

RuFfBoY said:


> I've used wool and the spider pads as previously recommended by Russ and Scott for heavier cutting and a farecla g mop for a extreme case lately with the s17+ (Flat sanding and bring back up to a great shine on a respray)
> 
> Like Russ says though, it saves on wasting product and also going to aggressive if you go with what's been advised on pad.
> With softer pads it's amazing what s17+ can achieve on it's own prior to a final finishing compound....
> Supergloss I found amazing in terms of work time and finish this weekend even in direct direct sunlight....


Supergloss is Nantoech bud.

Its surprising how well it works on a multitude of sins tbh. Never usually have to step up much higher. Perfect on polishing out up to 1500 wet sanding marks on its own in conjunction with the right pad combo. I know its been around for quite some time and the + variants are reformulated versions but they did seem over looked. Really shocked and pleased at the same time how many have contacted for advice on the products.


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## Spoony

What is the spray sealant like?


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## Deeper Detail

Beau Technique said:


> Supergloss is Nantoech bud.
> 
> Its surprising how well it works on a multitude of sins tbh. Never usually have to step up much higher. Perfect on polishing out up to 1500 wet sanding marks on its own in conjunction with the right pad combo. I know its been around for quite some time and the + variants are reformulated versions but they did seem over looked. Really shocked and pleased at the same time how many have contacted for advice on the products.


Lol, yes I know mate on the supergloss :thumb:

I was just mentioning this as the S17+ is my fav allrounder and after trying the supergloss that Russ sent me for finishing I instantly liked that too in the way S17+ got me.


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## Beau Technique

Spoony said:


> What is the spray sealant like?


The SW20?
I use it a lot. Tried and tested as a stand alone and will give around a month or just over. Real easy to use and close to par with Zaino Z8 after running both as a trial. Z8 juts tips it on the gloss stakes. Nice little add on after washing or to add a little extra to a just finished car.


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## Reflectology

Hi chaps I have just emailed Olivier for a spot of information regarding S30+....my initial thoughts, and his along with the Scholl site is that a soft pad should not be used with S30+....I have asked for info regarding as to why but the Scholl orange is Olivier's recommended and he aint the corporate manager for nothing....

I have all but one of the Scholl Polishes which is S0 but the words of Olivier is that a 3 stage machine correction process is not needed should Scholl polishes be used so I see no real need to go to the levels of S0....

Scott the work times of a minute stands but this is split....30 seconds to work at moderate pressure and 30 seconds with light pressure for finishing and at between 1000 and 1500 so well within what i work at....A15+ though can be worked as long as you like or as little as the afore mentioned times, of which i have experienced....with some staggering results....A15+ will be my dealer go to as its an All in One, frankly the best AIO i have used....

Once i receive an email from Olivier I will repost with his info....

Regarding pads the Scholl Orange is an unstoppable beast as its basically a go to pad for the majority of the Scholl range but my favourite is the Spider Sandwich Pad....just pure brilliance, which is why I have a FEW....


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## MidlandsCarCare

Scott, which wool pad have you been using with S17+ please?

Scholl really seems to be gathering quite a following now!


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## Beau Technique

RussZS said:


> Scott, which wool pad have you been using with S17+ please?
> 
> Scholl really seems to be gathering quite a following now!


From all ive tried ( and there is a lot of sheep killed in the process ) Im liking the flexi pads and spautopia premium lamswool. I was sent a Farecla wool pad but am struggling to fathom a supplier but they are absoulutely perfect in conjuntion with S17+. The actual Scholl dedicated wool pads are quite aggresive and need only be used when a car is beyond recognition. iirc im carrying around 30 wool pads onboard as I like various cut levels and do like a clean pad per panel but the flexi's and premium lamswools are the best bet as majority I know of are quite expensive for what they are.


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## MidlandsCarCare

Nice one, thanks for your time and help, appreciate it.

Russ.


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## burger

Anyone else had a play with the SW20 i have a brand new bottle i have never used.


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## Johnnyopolis

I have been using a lot of different polishes over the years but can honestly say I am loving the Scholl polishes and I have literally thrown out one other brand and the other will probably follow too... 

In the range I think S17+ is my favourite polish and I have been using this with the orange pad.

I currently have a Renault 5 Turbo 2 in our studio to polish as well as a Honda S2000 and they will both be polished with Scholl and then finished in Zaino. 

Its good to see so many people picking up Scholl :thumb: I cant stop raving about it, oh and another vote for Phil @ Shinearama on Scholl from me


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## MidlandsCarCare

I am loving S17 too. I think I'll keep some Menz bits, but can't see me keeping Megs or 3M at this rate... 

Have you tried S3 Johnny?

Nice R5 btw!! What a car!


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## Beau Technique

Johnnyopolis said:


> I have been using a lot of different polishes over the years but can honestly say I am loving the Scholl polishes and I have literally thrown out one other brand and the other will probably follow too...
> 
> In the range I think S17+ is my favourite polish and I have been using this with the orange pad.
> 
> I currently have a Renault 5 Turbo 2 in our studio to polish as well as a Honda S2000 and they will both be polished with Scholl and then finished in Zaino.
> 
> Its good to see so many people picking up Scholl :thumb: I cant stop raving about it, oh and another vote for Phil @ Shinearama on Scholl from me


It will ball up on the Honda. Best adding something a touch oil heavy to aid the polish working better. Tend to find S40 with a smudge of S17+ works well on jap / sticky paint.


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## Beau Technique

burger said:


> Anyone else had a play with the SW20 i have a brand new bottle i have never used.


Just use it. Dont live in fear:thumb:


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## steve from wath

im a recent convert to scholl all thans to Russ @ reflectology

ive done a few cars now with either 17 or 15 and am loving the results i can acheive with them

thanks to all for posting lots of helpfull info in this post

have been sent the purple pad from sapautopia to try

anybody any experience and how to use this one 

cheers


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## Beau Technique

Pretty much alike to the orange sandwich pad only a touch more firm. Can finish down on its own but its always best to settle the finish with a softer pad.


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## ianFRST

tim at envy valeting also does scholl 

i will be retrying s17+ with some wool on my golf tomorrow


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## -Ashley-

i have been informed that s17+ is suitable with the black scholl waffle pad as a one step machine polish but i'm finding it difficult to coax the polish into life with such a soft pad. 

should i use s40 with the orange pad instead?


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## Beau Technique

-Ashley- said:


> i have been informed that s17+ is suitable with the black scholl waffle pad as a one step machine polish but i'm finding it difficult to coax the polish into life with such a soft pad.
> 
> should i use s40 with the orange pad instead?


What speeds and how much polish you using Ashley? Rather than the typical 3 peas sized drops I tend to place around several smaller drops over the pad. Never really got on with the Scholl black waffle tbh. I deal with a paintshop that literally uses wool and black waffles and there finishing is outstanding but for me it didnt work out quite so ergo finding that 3M pads worked well.


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## -Ashley-

like you i use several small drops around the pad. i use standard zenith technique speeds, spread at 900, work up to 1800 and then refine back down. 

i'm just finding it tough to get the desired results. so you use the 3M blue pads for one step jobs with s17+?

thanks for your help.


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## Beau Technique

3M yellow for a single hit wonder usually. Or 3M yellow after wool and if needed I opt for Menzerna or other finer finishing polish on 3M blue.










Zenith isnt needed with S17+. Russ has already stated earlier in the thread about the 1 minute run time. 30 second spread at low speed then 30 second at 1200 - 1500 rpm for the product to be worked and done. Thats the marker of work time by Scholl's word and it does actually work. You can work it for longer but there is rarely any benfit to it.


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## -Ashley-

so to confirm you don't have to refine back down?

thanks again buddy.


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## Beau Technique

Not always but in some cases dependant on paint type, you may well need to drop down the rpm and run a short while longer.


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## -Ashley-

thanks for your help. so far i have spent most of my time trialling s40 but now want to learn how to use s17+ better. 

i have an enhancement to do tomorrow and wanted to try s17+ for this. problem is i only have 3 3M yellow pads and like to change my pads every panel. i might have to use the scholl black waffles. 

thanks again bud.


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## MidlandsCarCare

Where is it Ashely? I have loads of 3M pads, should you require the loan of some.


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## -Ashley-

It's at my place bud, I think I am going to use the S17+ with coolfoam red pads (Dodo Juice style), as I have just had a chat with my detailing guru that I ring for advice and he has said these will give good results.

Thanks for the offer though chap, much appreciated .

Ashley


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## ianFRST

Beau Technique said:


> 3M yellow for a single hit wonder usually. Or 3M yellow after wool and if needed I opt for Menzerna or other finer finishing polish on 3M blue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zenith isnt needed with S17+. Russ has already stated earlier in the thread about the 1 minute run time. 30 second spread at low speed then 30 second at 1200 - 1500 rpm for the product to be worked and done. Thats the marker of work time by Scholl's word and it does actually work. You can work it for longer but there is rarely any benfit to it.


will try that. so what happens when you try to run it like a normal polish? i think maybe thats why ive had dusting?


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## Beau Technique

-Ashley- said:


> It's at my place bud, I think I am going to use the S17+ with coolfoam red pads (Dodo Juice style), as I have just had a chat with my detailing guru that I ring for advice and he has said these will give good results.
> 
> Thanks for the offer though chap, much appreciated .
> 
> Ashley


Think you will find the pad a little to forgiving to get the best from the polish tbh.



ianFRST said:


> will try that. so what happens when you try to run it like a normal polish? i think maybe thats why ive had dusting?


Not much difference bar wasting excess time that is not needed. I used to work it longer but found that after working the way Scholl recomend, results were the same. It will dust as will any polish Ian but it tends to dust far less than extrafine, power finish or 105/205 polishes.


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## -Ashley-

Oh right. What about the orange Coolfoam pads, too rigid???

Ashley


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## Beau Technique

They are a close equivalent to Scholl orange foams so that may be a good combination. More viable choice than the red as that is way too soft. Better for finishing and glazing only.


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## Reflectology

Do you have a Scholl Orange Pad Ashley?....if you do use that, no point messing around with other pads unless you have info that it works well with them, like the 3m that Scott uses....

I have done away with all the faffing around and go straight for my fave pad now with plenty others left by the way side........


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## -Ashley-

Yeah they are quite similar to the Scholl oranges, just wondered whether it was slightly too aggressive a combination for a single step polish. 

I will experiment with lots of different pads tomorrow I think and let you know how I get on.

Where abouts are you based by the way matey?


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## -Ashley-

Reflectology said:


> Do you have a Scholl Orange Pad Ashley?....if you do use that, no point messing around with other pads unless you have info that it works well with them, like the 3m that Scott uses....
> 
> I have done away with all the faffing around and go straight for my fave pad now with plenty others left by the way side........


i do have a couple of the orange Scholl pads but I like to change my pads every panel, that's the only issue.

Ashley


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## Reflectology

Have you got a pad spurr or something suitable for it....changing pads to different ones will only cause issues as you will be trying to gain the same results with others as you get with Scholl ones....


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## -Ashley-

Yeah I didn't mean I would use the Scholl for a couple of panels and then switch to a different type of pad. I normally just use a soft detailing brush and spin at a low speed to clean the pad. However recently I have found myself using a fresh pad for every panel and I quite like that.

Ashley


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## Reflectology

it is a good way of working changing pads but when you only have limited options then you just have to go with the flow....


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## -Ashley-

So would you advise that I use the couple of Scholl pads I have, cleaning regularly, instead of using an orange coolfoam each panel?

Thanks for the advice.


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## Reflectology

Yes mate, that way you will get the majority of the correction looking the same, if you feel they are getting too loaded (around 5mm depth) just give them a clean out with water and spin them dry....ultimately buy a few pad towers


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## Johnnyopolis

-Ashley- said:


> i do have a couple of the orange Scholl pads but I like to change my pads every panel, that's the only issue.
> 
> Ashley


I would look at a pad washer too, you will find that for the cost of 6 to 8 Scholl pads you could buy the Grit Guard version from a UK Reseller.


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## Beau Technique

Depends who supplies you but ive always seen the pad washer as an overpriced glamour accessory tbh. In that case, you could have more pads and sometimes not use as many so others are ready should you need more for another job the next day for instance. Toothbrush and cg pad conditioner works perfectly for when working:thumb:


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## Porta

-Ashley- said:


> Oh right. What about the orange Coolfoam pads, too rigid???
> 
> Ashley


I prefere the orange coolshine over Sholl Concepts orange foam. Any day, any time.


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## Roy

I got a good chance to use a Purple Spider pad on an F40 yesterday, worked a charm :thumb:

Also two products that haven’t been mentioned much yet is the S3 Gold, and their hand polishing pucks both of which are awesome! All the intakes on the F40 were hand polished with S3 Gold and their white hand puck. 

Roy.


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## Car Key

Roy said:


> Also two products that haven't been mentioned much yet is the S3 Gold, and their hand polishing pucks both of which are awesome! All the intakes on the F40 were hand polished with S3 Gold and their white hand puck.


 Good news. I've got some S3 Gold and a white polishing puck, sat in me bedroom. Hopefully next w/end I'll have a chance to use it. As well as 1kg of S3G, I also bought 250g of S17+, for finishing down, was my rationale. Car is a badly swirled Almera GTi.


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## Envy Car Care

Funny how everyones catching on to how good the polish is now!
When I 1st started using it in 2009 all everyone did was be surprised at how "expensive" it was compared to 3M for example yet it works that well that the price can be easily justified by a business in how much time it potentially saves you when you use it for your correction work.
The S17+ and the S3 Gold are pretty amazing IMHO.

How are those of you that have the purple pads from Olivier finding them?

Tim


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## MidlandsCarCare

I remember thinking that back then too!

How come you don't stock the pads Tim?


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## Envy Car Care

RussZS said:


> I remember thinking that back then too!
> 
> How come you don't stock the pads Tim?


LOL, I keep them for myself Russ. I do have em! Again it boiled down to perceived cost. You can get a 2 pack of 3M pads for £x and people always go for cheaper options..but do seem to be coming round to the polish at LONG last.


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## ianFRST

yeah i remember it back then too, but at the time, when you look at the menz being almost half the price, it was an easier choice to make :lol:


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## MidlandsCarCare

Envy Valeting said:


> LOL, I keep them for myself Russ. I do have em! Again it boiled down to perceived cost. You can get a 2 pack of 3M pads for £x and people always go for cheaper options..but do seem to be coming round to the polish at LONG last.


Do you have some you could sell me please Tim?

I need some Espuma, some of your brushes and a few other bits too, and some 1L S3 and S17+


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## Beau Technique

Roy said:


> I got a good chance to use a Purple Spider pad on an F40 yesterday, worked a charm :thumb:
> 
> Also two products that haven't been mentioned much yet is the S3 Gold, and their hand polishing pucks both of which are awesome! All the intakes on the F40 were hand polished with S3 Gold and their white hand puck.
> 
> Roy.


From what I heard the pucks are a potential issue through slight marring being inflicted. Never purchased the S3 gold due to using up excess compounds but have heard good stuff about it. Think the main reason the lack of mention is Its not the most essential of the bunch in comparison to S17+.



Envy Valeting said:


> Funny how everyones catching on to how good the polish is now!
> When I 1st started using it in 2009 all everyone did was be surprised at how "expensive" it was compared to 3M for example yet it works that well that the price can be easily justified by a business in how much time it potentially saves you when you use it for your correction work.
> The S17+ and the S3 Gold are pretty amazing IMHO.
> 
> How are those of you that have the purple pads from Olivier finding them?
> 
> Tim


Seen you stocked and was going to purchase until I was offered a reasonable deal tbh Tim. Its always been shadowed by the usual suspects which was surprising to me after first use of it. As for the purple pad, im sure someone else asked but the pad I would say is a touch firmer than the orange sandwich pad. Still works well.


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## Roy

Envy Valeting said:


> Funny how everyones catching on to how good the polish is now!


I don't think you got the response you deserved when you first started show casing them on your write ups. For me it was a very easy transition from the Swissvax CF range through to using these.



Envy Valeting said:


> How are those of you that have the purple pads from Olivier finding them?


I didn't get my pads from Olivier, and I've seen more than a Purple spider recently.


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## Roy

Beau Technique said:


> From what I heard the pucks are a potential issue through slight marring being inflicted. Never purchased the S3 gold due to using up excess compounds but have heard good stuff about it. Think the main reason the lack of mention is Its not the most essential of the bunch in comparison to S17+.


Hi Scott, Sorry not trying to muddy the waters here, yes the white foam will leave a little haze, the paint on this F40 was pretty hard, once I'd worked the abrasives, I followed round with a little S30+ on a black pad and it finished down very well. Very good for areas you can't get the machine in to.


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## Beau Technique

Handy to know.:thumb:

Trouble now is that Scholl once being a silent dark horse is becoming the pony everyone wants a peice of. Hopefully it doesnt die out like most fad's that happen.


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## MidlandsCarCare

It seems to be getting all of the right exposure at the moment, so I'm sure it'll do well for a long time now...

I've heard of a few more stockists coming on board too, which can only be a good thing!


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## Roy

Quick video from the other day, apologies for the poor quality Image shack seems to have reduced the quality :wall: Still it shows the correction achieved.


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## Kokopelli

Excuse me if I couldn't follow the thread right but I'm a bit confused about the orange Scholl pad you refer to. 

There is a Spider Orange and a Flat Orange, right? And I suppose Spider is the stronger one? 

And with the white foam,the white spider is a cutter and sandwich white is even stronger, as I understand. No need for a TopWool if had white spider then?

I'm not the best rotary user but better on the DA. I plan to use S17+ one day, still got some other polishes (Menz 203s, 85re5 and some Megs D151) to use for now. I need a good mid-range pad set for annual - biennial paint care but I just can't decide if the Orange (spider/flat) will be too soft or white spider too harsh. The car is a VW Passat 2008.


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## Reflectology

if the pads mentioned are either going to be too coarse or too soft go for the blue pad....but for twice a year I would think the orange would be fine but maybe switch polish to A15+....which is slightly less aggressive than S17+ but has excellent protection as well....


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## Kokopelli

Oh, thanks. I know they work best as a system and there is nothing like a pure cut or finish of a pad regardless of the product it is used with. 

I just think I need something strong that I can use with DA or Rotary and yet finish well in a single pass with S17+ on a VW paint. Lake Country Tangerine Hydro-Tech pads sounded very much like what I have been looking for but they were reported to be bad in pad loading and weak velcro backings so I skipped them for now. 

I already have some pads, like Coolshine Oranges, 3m Yellow and Blue, Hexlogics and Hexorings in various colors but I can't stop thinking of Scholl system either  I never thought I needed wool pads but if Scholl wools are different in some manner (like leaving very little or no holograms, running with less dust, easier to control etc), I may get a few of these too. 

A15+ sounds promising for sure. I believe I have something very close to this in purpose, Meguiars D151 so didn't think getting one more single step product. And I always have plenty of LSPs to put on top. Still every opinion is precious on any product. I know you can easily persuade me to get this as well  

So how does Scholl pads compare to something in Lake Country colors, let's say, using S17+ with both pad systems? I'd appreciate very much if you could specify if you mean flat, sandwich or spider for any color you mention.


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## moosh

This Thread is Epic! Loving the Info...


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## Porta

Kokopelli said:


> Oh, thanks. I know they work best as a system and there is nothing like a pure cut or finish of a pad regardless of the product it is used with.
> 
> I just think I need something strong that I can use with DA or Rotary and yet finish well in a single pass with S17+ on a VW paint. Lake Country Tangerine Hydro-Tech pads sounded very much like what I have been looking for but they were reported to be bad in pad loading and weak velcro backings so I skipped them for now.
> 
> I already have some pads, like Coolshine Oranges, 3m Yellow and Blue, Hexlogics and Hexorings in various colors but I can't stop thinking of Scholl system either  I never thought I needed wool pads but if Scholl wools are different in some manner (like leaving very little or no holograms, running with less dust, easier to control etc), I may get a few of these too.
> 
> A15+ sounds promising for sure. I believe I have something very close to this in purpose, Meguiars D151 so didn't think getting one more single step product. And I always have plenty of LSPs to put on top. Still every opinion is precious on any product. I know you can easily persuade me to get this as well
> 
> So how does Scholl pads compare to something in Lake Country colors, let's say, using S17+ with both pad systems? I'd appreciate very much if you could specify if you mean flat, sandwich or spider for any color you mention.


I would not care for the Scholl pads- only the Spiders - if I had the line up you have. S17+ can be used with all the LC pads - but I would mostly use it with white, green, orange and foamed wool. With Hexalogic I would use green, white and yellow. This pads are, IMHO, the best foam pads out on the market (made by buffandshine.com).


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## Kokopelli

Which spider is the best all around pad? I see Orange, White and White Sandwich on Spautopia. Orange is rated as 1/6 cut in Shinearama white White is 4/6.


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## Reflectology

Depends how much cut you want...the orange spider may be suitable but for me all day long its the black & white Spider sandwich Pad....


----------



## david_h

Thanks to Reflectology I've tried S17+ for the first time today.

Managed to do an enhancement detail on my brothers Mk5 GTI.
Overall I'm really happy with the products. I used a blue pad on most of the bodywork to get rid of the majority of the RDS, orange was ok in some places but didn't cut deep enough.
I switched to zenith method as just finishing at 1800rpm resulted in holograms.
Overal worktime was dramatically reduced, maybe by 50%?

I'm going to try the same product and pad combo on my M3 in the next few weeks which seems to just laugh at pretty much every combo I try other than Menz Powergloss.


----------



## Kokopelli

Reflectology said:


> Depends how much cut you want...the orange spider may be suitable but for me all day long its the black & white Spider sandwich Pad....


Thanks Russ. I would order white sandwich today but that was out of stock. Amanda said it may be available tomorrow. Will wait and order a Sandwich and a couple of wool pads then. No need for that black waffle, do I?


----------



## Reflectology

make sure you get there before me m8, I am on it tomorrow .....


----------



## Kokopelli

We're 2 hours ahead of you guys  But still takes 3.5 hours to fly there. Don't know who has the advantage.

Only a white sandwich. You can spare one, can't you?


----------



## Reflectology

....


----------



## mattykhz

I'm looking at getting some new Polish for BMW Alpine White and Mini Laser Blue paint so guessing it is hard and was looking at either GTechniq P1 or Scholl stuff.

Has anyone used both and what would be best via Rotary and a relative newbie?


----------



## Kokopelli

mattykhz said:


> I'm looking at getting some new Polish for BMW Alpine White and Mini Laser Blue paint so guessing it is hard and was looking at either GTechniq P1 or Scholl stuff.
> 
> Has anyone used both and what would be best via Rotary and a relative newbie?


Good question. I also wonder this. I expect P1 to cut a bit more in comparison but, you never know. I'll get a litre of the winner


----------



## Reflectology

never used P1 and dont really intend trying, and thats no offence to the polish itself but Scholl is what appears now to be a leading brand name spoken about on DW, I also know how things are moving on with Scholl and expect them to be around for sometime....


----------



## Kokopelli

Thanks a lot Russ. I guess I can still try my last 100ml of Gtechniq P1 I've only used by hand. 

I ordered a couple of white spider sandwich pads along with their spots, and a couple of TopWool pads from Spautopia. I'll order S17+ from Shinearama since they usually have the best international shipping for us, just waiting for it to come back into stock and my 2 months import restriction to pass. I'll order a couple of orange pads also. Should I get the spider oranges or the flat ones, I still can't clarify. There are two oranges, one blue and two whites sold on Spautopia. 

I have some Menz finishing polishes already so I guess I won't need S40 for hologram removal, thinking that I'm not that good on rotary so I may not finish perfectly with S17+. But do you still think S40 is the ultimate finishing polish?

Happily enough, I found Scholl polishes sold here in Turkey on an online shop, oddly enough with the same product images but under a different name yet same numbers like S17+, A15+, etc, and S17+ was 112 TL = £43. Not the worst pricing but still not the best either, thinking I can order directly from the UK for £35 a bottle (well, £29 if bought 2 litres). 

Still, I love things come into national market. That gives confidance to invest into a system. And if it is as good as you all commented already, I may even need only a single polish for my every need, making it one of the wisest choice ever.


----------



## HeavenlyDetail

Its very very good and ive sung its praises and bought the whole range , all they need to do now is sort out the last stage because its just not working , no one should have to change away product or pad because their finest polish and pad dont work.


----------



## Kokopelli

Oh, just another question I must ask before buying in big bottles...

Does it go bad in a year? Scholl Concepts gives a 1 year shelf life for an unopened container. I can only find litre sized bottles locally. I don't think I can finish a litre in two-three years, nor it is feasible to buy 250ml bottles from the UK.


----------



## Porta

Kokopelli said:


> Oh, just another question I must ask before buying in big bottles...
> 
> Does it go bad in a year? Scholl Concepts gives a 1 year shelf life for an unopened container. I can only find litre sized bottles locally. I don't think I can finish a litre in two-three years, nor it is feasible to buy 250ml bottles from the UK.


They will not go bad. I have Scholl polishes from 2007 and they still perform as they did day 1.


----------



## Reflectology

not necessarily true, I bought a litre bottle of A15+ towards the end of last year, just knew something was a miss when it was creating havoc hologram wise with the use of a DA let alone a Rotary....it turned out that it was over 3 yrs old and this was the reason for the problems...the new bottle I received had no such problem....

Lets not forget the 250ml bottle is in essence for enthusiastic users...or just a trier for a pro....

If Scholl say a year then it may be so but I will have a word and see what i can find out....


----------



## Kokopelli

Porta said:


> They will not go bad. I have Scholl polishes from 2007 and they still perform as they did day 1.


Thanks a lot. This was what I would like to hear so. I'll buy a big bottle then.

And what are the findings about S30+. It sound very promising with the increased cut over s40 yet a good finishing rate, but might be at a useless point, it is somewhere in between. What do you guys think?


----------



## Kokopelli

Reflectology said:


> not necessarily true, I bought a litre bottle of A15+ towards the end of last year, just knew something was a miss when it was creating havoc hologram wise with the use of a DA let alone a Rotary....it turned out that it was over 3 yrs old and this was the reason for the problems...the new bottle I received had no such problem....
> 
> Lets not forget the 250ml bottle is in essence for enthusiastic users...or just a trier for a pro....
> 
> If Scholl say a year then it may be so but I will have a word and see what i can find out....


Oww, and this is what I was afraid of 

I guess I can get S3 Gold, S17+ and S40 in 250ml for my order next month and see if I can pick the most useful one for me.

Still couldn't make without getting something locally and I got the wax, W6+ today.  Scholl says it is an easy one but I've read horror experiences of those applied it thick.


----------



## Reflectology

its W9 that was a nightmare, W6 is supposed to be a breeze but unfortunately and kind of embarrassingly I haven't used it yet, but I get on with W9 which for me is one of the wettest, glassiest waxes I have....

This was done with S17+ and Spider Pad then topped off with W9...



























Once W9 is mastered it is untouchable, I also had my impreza wearing it for 6 months and it was still going strong through the worst winter we had for over 30 yrs....


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

The short time, slow speed cutting works a treat! I've just corrected the bonnet of my Golf in record time, and it looks stunning!

Why oh why didn't I discover Scholl sooner?

I have orange and white spider pads - which others should I add?

S3 made easy work of the drying blade RDS I had too


----------



## Paul N

this thread has cost me even more money


----------



## LeadFarmer

Paul N said:


> this thread has cost me even more money


This forum has cost me *even more *money


----------



## Kokopelli

After reading all these reviews and recommendations about Scholl polishes I decided that I must had S17+. I ordered a bottle of this a few minutes ago. at

I already had Sandwich pads but didn't buy Scholl Black Waffles as I already had 3m Blue'es. Do I still need a genuine Scholl pad for finishing or am I good to go with 3m Yellow and Blue pads?


----------



## Reflectology

3m are good to go mate, Scott uses them...my main stay for finishes are the Black Farecla Foam....


----------



## alxg

This has been one of the most informative threads i have ever read on here; for the pro's to be so forthcoming with their advice is very helpful indeed :thumb:

Thank you gents, it is much appreciated :thumb:


----------



## M33rkb

Just reading through this thread as I am looking to change from Menzerna and I have found it very useful 

So if I'm right I would be best going for some S17+ as a good all rounder?

It's just the pads that I am confused about. Would you recommend the Orange Spider pads or Orange Sandwich pads? I take it you only need to use one pad? Or do you need the black one too? Also what size would you go for 145 or 160mm?

Finally can I get away with a Sonus 6" backing pad or would I need one of the Scholl ones?

Thanks in advance

Mark


----------



## alxg

Well I ended up buying a 250ml bottle of S17+ and a White spider pad (feels very hard, like a 3M Green almost) out of sheer curiosity after reading this thread and would like to confirm what I suspect is the best working method for this before I have a trial on the old practice bonnet over the weekend.

Having my Makita & LC CCS and 3M pads at my disposal, and of course the White pad, would I be able to use the S17+ with, say an Orange LC/Yellow 3M, to remove swirls and maybe some RDS within a minute or so on something like Renault paint? I would expect to refine with another favourite in the shape of Britemax Black Max/3M Blue or would I not really need to do this?

I appreciate the usual method of combo selection, but it is the short time element of working the S17+ that really baffles me.

Any advice would be much appreciated :thumb: 

Thanks.


----------



## Reflectology

you may get away with it inside a minute but may end up running over as the polishes are pad sensitive so to speak, they have been designed to work with their own pads to ensure maximum effect from them, obviously you can use other pads, as for refining i think in early days of usage you will have to but if you click straight away there really is no need to change polish, use s17+ on the 3m blue pad and although you may think it may be harsh its all down to how the magic of IPT works....
http://www.schollconcepts-store.eu/en/ipt-technology-79


----------



## M33rkb

M33rkb said:


> Just reading through this thread as I am looking to change from Menzerna and I have found it very useful
> 
> So if I'm right I would be best going for some S17+ as a good all rounder?
> 
> It's just the pads that I am confused about. Would you recommend the Orange Spider pads or Orange Sandwich pads? I take it you only need to use one pad? Or do you need the black one too? Also what size would you go for 145 or 160mm?
> 
> Finally can I get away with a Sonus 6" backing pad or would I need one of the Scholl ones?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Mark


Any help on this would be great :thumb:


----------



## Demetrios72

*S17*

Hi Guys :wave:

Just had a read through the threads with regards the Scholl S17 sounds good I may go for it. Do you think it will do the job for me? I am still new at this game.
It's for a BMW in silver. the paint work is in great condition. I just want to perfect it.

Also...should I still use the Megs pads as I got them with my DA as i don't want to throw them out. :wall:

What do you thinks guys??


----------



## Reflectology

M33rkb said:


> Any help on this would be great :thumb:


will get back to you on this mate just a bit knackt and totally forgot the other day....


----------



## Beau Technique

alxg said:


> Well I ended up buying a 250ml bottle of S17+ and a White spider pad (feels very hard, like a 3M Green almost) out of sheer curiosity after reading this thread and would like to confirm what I suspect is the best working method for this before I have a trial on the old practice bonnet over the weekend.
> 
> Having my Makita & LC CCS and 3M pads at my disposal, and of course the White pad, would I be able to use the S17+ with, say an Orange LC/Yellow 3M, to remove swirls and maybe some RDS within a minute or so on something like Renault paint? I would expect to refine with another favourite in the shape of Britemax Black Max/3M Blue or would I not really need to do this?
> 
> I appreciate the usual method of combo selection, but it is the short time element of working the S17+ that really baffles me.
> 
> Any advice would be much appreciated :thumb:
> 
> Thanks.


For Renault paint I would do so. Ive worked on a hdanfull of clio 197's and they have all needed that extra tweek at the end. Lake country ccs white has a slight edge on cut level iirc compared to 3M yellow. 3M blue with either S40, Menzerna po85rd or as you like black max, use that just for the final jewel.


----------



## Beau Technique

mattykhz said:


> I'm looking at getting some new Polish for BMW Alpine White and Mini Laser Blue paint so guessing it is hard and was looking at either GTechniq P1 or Scholl stuff.
> 
> Has anyone used both and what would be best via Rotary and a relative newbie?


3M yellow pad, S17+, JD. Worked on plenty of BMW's from E36 to E90's and a number of mini's so know the combo can give great results:thumb:


----------



## M33rkb

Reflectology said:


> will get back to you on this mate just a bit knackt and totally forgot the other day....


OK no probs.

When ever you get 5 minutes any info would be great :thumb:


----------



## neo8047

I've been reading this thread with interest as I have just recently purchased an EP800 rotary having used a DA for the past few years, but I'm still a bit of a newbie and it is has only been used on my cars for the occasional tidy up. Polishes I have used up to now on the DA are Megs #80 and #83 and also some of the Menz range with limited success.

Pad wise I have the Megs cutting, polishing and finishing and nearly the full range of Hexlogic pads (yellow, green, blue, black).

I have been rejuvenating my detailing collection I had been thinking about purchasing Megs 105 and 205 after reading various write ups. I'd like to just get a few good tried and tested products and pads and stick to them, rather than having lots of different products sitting and rarely getting used. 

From reading this thread, Scholl S17+ in particlar seems to tick the boxes. The current cars I have to look after are a 2010 Octavia VRS, a 2010 Nissan Qashqai and a 2003 Impreza STI so quite a variety of paint types and hardness. Am I correct in saying that the S17 will have enough cut (depending on the pad) to deal with each of these paid types, or alternatively that it won't be too agressive as I believe the QQ and potentially the Subaru could have softer, stickier paint? 

Generally does it need to be refined down with a different polish or is it only the case of still using S17 on a softer pad if the first pass has been with a harder pad?

Finally if I am to purchase some of the Scholl pads (or any other make) what is recommended for the above cars?

Sorry for all the questions. I am genuinely interested in trying this product and as I'm N Ireland based I want to make sure I order all the products I need at first (from the same retailer) as delivery charges to across the pond are generally extorionate.

Thanks


----------



## M33rkb

neo8047 said:


> I've been reading this thread with interest as I have just recently purchased an EP800 rotary having used a DA for the past few years, but I'm still a bit of a newbie and it is has only been used on my cars for the occasional tidy up. Polishes I have used up to now on the DA are Megs #80 and #83 and also some of the Menz range with limited success.
> 
> Pad wise I have the Megs cutting, polishing and finishing and nearly the full range of Hexlogic pads (yellow, green, blue, black).
> 
> I have been rejuvenating my detailing collection I had been thinking about purchasing Megs 105 and 205 after reading various write ups. I'd like to just get a few good tried and tested products and pads and stick to them, rather than having lots of different products sitting and rarely getting used.
> 
> From reading this thread, Scholl S17+ in particlar seems to tick the boxes. The current cars I have to look after are a 2010 Octavia VRS, a 2010 Nissan Qashqai and a 2003 Impreza STI so quite a variety of paint types and hardness. Am I correct in saying that the S17 will have enough cut (depending on the pad) to deal with each of these paid types, or alternatively that it won't be too agressive as I believe the QQ and potentially the Subaru could have softer, stickier paint?
> 
> Generally does it need to be refined down with a different polish or is it only the case of still using S17 on a softer pad if the first pass has been with a harder pad?
> 
> Finally if I am to purchase some of the Scholl pads (or any other make) what is recommended for the above cars?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions. I am genuinely interested in trying this product and as I'm N Ireland based I want to make sure I order all the products I need at first (from the same retailer) as delivery charges to across the pond are generally extorionate.
> 
> Thanks


Good post almost identical to the questions I am asking


----------



## Reflectology

M33rkb said:


> Just reading through this thread as I am looking to change from Menzerna and I have found it very useful
> 
> So if I'm right I would be best going for some S17+ as a good all rounder?
> 
> It's just the pads that I am confused about. Would you recommend the Orange Spider pads or Orange Sandwich pads? I take it you only need to use one pad? Or do you need the black one too? Also what size would you go for 145 or 160mm?
> 
> Finally can I get away with a Sonus 6" backing pad or would I need one of the Scholl ones?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Mark


S17+ is a good all rounder and basically not on to be messed with, good for all paint types but the pad is key to finish, you can with enough experience of the system work with 1 pad and 1 polish, so a finishing pad may well be necessary....regarding pads I would go with the Black and White spider sandwich pad, orange or blue pad and a finishing pad of your choice, my preferance is the farecla black finishing foam, you would need to go for the larger pads to fit your backing plate obviously....



neo8047 said:


> I've been reading this thread with interest as I have just recently purchased an EP800 rotary having used a DA for the past few years, but I'm still a bit of a newbie and it is has only been used on my cars for the occasional tidy up. Polishes I have used up to now on the DA are Megs #80 and #83 and also some of the Menz range with limited success.
> 
> Pad wise I have the Megs cutting, polishing and finishing and nearly the full range of Hexlogic pads (yellow, green, blue, black).
> 
> I have been rejuvenating my detailing collection I had been thinking about purchasing Megs 105 and 205 after reading various write ups. I'd like to just get a few good tried and tested products and pads and stick to them, rather than having lots of different products sitting and rarely getting used.
> 
> From reading this thread, Scholl S17+ in particlar seems to tick the boxes. The current cars I have to look after are a 2010 Octavia VRS, a 2010 Nissan Qashqai and a 2003 Impreza STI so quite a variety of paint types and hardness. Am I correct in saying that the S17 will have enough cut (depending on the pad) to deal with each of these paid types, or alternatively that it won't be too agressive as I believe the QQ and potentially the Subaru could have softer, stickier paint?
> 
> Generally does it need to be refined down with a different polish or is it only the case of still using S17 on a softer pad if the first pass has been with a harder pad?
> 
> Finally if I am to purchase some of the Scholl pads (or any other make) what is recommended for the above cars?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions. I am genuinely interested in trying this product and as I'm N Ireland based I want to make sure I order all the products I need at first (from the same retailer) as delivery charges to across the pond are generally extorionate.
> 
> Thanks


As above really S17+ is perfect for all paint finishes and does not generally need refining, but again its down to getting the hang of it, as for pads I would go with what I mentioned above....as for cut its down to pad choice as its the pad that determines how the polish works....

The only polish i use with the exception of a few more scholl but thats just me.....

HTH


----------



## alxg

Beau Technique said:


> For Renault paint I would do so. Ive worked on a hdanfull of clio 197's and they have all needed that extra tweek at the end. Lake country ccs white has a slight edge on cut level iirc compared to 3M yellow. 3M blue with either S40, Menzerna po85rd or as you like black max, use that just for the final jewel.


Thanks Scott, I have just tried out the S17+ for the first time on one of my practice bonnets - BMW paint using a 3M Yellow pad - and all I can say is :doublesho this stuff is incredible!

I literally spread the polish at speed 1 on the Makita for ~3 passes and then went up to just over speed 3 for ~ 6 passes using moderate pressure, then backed off as the panel was getting a bit warm, so back down the speed range and let off the pressure for a few more passes. 
The result was amazing, with only some RDS left that I had put in beforehand, but all swirls were gone! I then tried refining with a 3M Blue using slow passes and barely any pressure going up to ~ speed 3 and then back down again and the finish was spot on; I can't see how I can get a similar result in the same time using my other polishes, I really can't!

Now I know I am not a pro, and my comments are based around the capabilities of an enthusiastic hobbyist; I know alot on here could get better results using toothpaste and a flannel, but for me this is a very good result, and with more practice I think I can hone my skills much further.

Next up is seeing how far I can go cut wise; I have the White Spider pad and have just ordered some more S17+ and a couple of the Spider Sandwich Pads to try.

Thanks to Scott and Russ for sharing their knowledge with us mere mortals on here, it has been (for me at least) very helpful :thumb:


----------



## neo8047

Many thanks for the advice. I will have a look at the pads tomorrow.

What sort of results can be with a DA and the scholl products or is the type of product much better suited to a rotary?


----------



## M33rkb

Thanks for you help Reflectology :thumb:

I can see some being ordered on my next order


----------



## Kokopelli

How does S17+ act on a hand pad? I have yet to try it by machine but until then I might use it by hand. Which pad is the best for it? It needs some harsh foams on a rotary and I don't want to marr the paint by if used by hand.


----------



## Reflectology

Kokopelli said:


> How does S17+ act on a hand pad? I have yet to try it by machine but until then I might use it by hand. Which pad is the best for it? It needs some harsh foams on a rotary and I don't want to marr the paint by if used by hand.


you can any use hand pad that is decent, I tend to use the these applicators but i also have a black scholl hand puck, which works pretty well, although its for finishing it does a fine job....I dont understand your meaning of S17+ needing harsh foams on a rotary as you can use finishing pads with it, which is good for enhancements....


----------



## ROMEYR32

I hope Scholl are looking after you and Scott for all this


----------



## Reflectology

Me too.....:tumbleweed:


----------



## Kokopelli

Reflectology said:


> you can any use hand pad that is decent, I tend to use the these applicators but i also have a black scholl hand puck, which works pretty well, although its for finishing it does a fine job....I dont understand your meaning of S17+ needing harsh foams on a rotary as you can use finishing pads with it, which is good for enhancements....


Thanks Russ, helpful as always. I have a white hand puck and it is a really hard foam, like as those spider sandwich pads you recommended. And they usually recommended the harsher orange instead of black waffles for finishing with S40 so I though they needed somewhat hard foams to do their job best. But if you say any would work I'd trust this most.

I won't bother with Menz 203s or Ultimate Compound and try S17+ first by hand then.


----------



## Leemack

I venture into the land of Scholl Concepts today (When it arrives anyway)

In a sad way I'm looking forward to it and have a lovely 2010 Dodge 4x4 to use it on


----------



## Reflectology

Basically take the same principal by hand as machine, start with the finest first, I also think your menz etc will be canned once you use Scholl....try and get hold of some S3 Gold Edition, that is their best polish for use by hand....but S17+ will work just fine....


----------



## Leemack

Russ,

I got some s17+ and A15+.

Did i make the wrong choice? Scholl confuses me so much :wall:


----------



## Reflectology

Showshine said:


> Russ,
> 
> I got some s17+ and A15+.
> 
> Did i make the wrong choice? Scholl confuses me so much :wall:


No mate...I do most of my correction with S17+ using different pads as you do but either finish down with S17+ on Black Farecla pad or A15+ on same pad type....Also A15+ is the best all in one i have used and that includes Zaino....that is why i bought some more last week, along with another 2 ltr of S17+....

I have some S30 that is almost full but I dont use it, not saying its not good because it is but along with S3 Gold Edition the other 2 are the only ones i use....very rarely do i use S40 but I will always have some of that handy for thin paint as i think its ideal....


----------



## Leemack

So S17+ is more like an enhancement type polish? Fast working times of around 80 seconds and wet when removed?

A15+ is a finishing polish?

Sorry for the q's but I'm struggling to get my head around the names and where to put them in my process. :wall:

So used to 3M and Menz


----------



## Reflectology

Showshine said:


> So S17+ is more like an enhancement type polish? Fast working times of around 80 seconds and wet when removed?
> 
> A15+ is a finishing polish?
> 
> Sorry for the q's but I'm struggling to get my head around the names and where to put them in my process. :wall:
> 
> So used to 3M and Menz


No mate S17+ can be used for correction work from heavy to light with the use of their different pads....you will get serious results with it mate....

A15+ can also be used to correct, I just use it t finish as my personal preference....

http://www.schollconcepts-store.eu/images/stories/charts/pp_circle.png


----------



## Leemack

Reflectology said:


> No mate S17+ can be used for correction work from heavy to light with the use of their different pads....you will get serious results with it mate....
> 
> A15+ can also be used to correct, I just use it t finish as my personal preference....
> 
> http://www.schollconcepts-store.eu/images/stories/charts/pp_circle.png


Bloosy hell - S17+ sounds like the polish I have been waiting for then :doublesho

Cheers matey


----------



## Reflectology

Showshine said:


> Bloosy hell - S17+ sounds like the polish I have been waiting for then :doublesho
> 
> Cheers matey


correct....:thumb:


----------



## Leemack

Just checked my order and looks like i got myself a spider pad and S3 gold aswell as the S17+ and A15+ lol

I forgot i'd ordered those :lol: :wall: :lol:


----------



## Beau Technique

Its Scholl mayhem up in here!!!

All are competent products, pads included used correctly however there is few products that do not work correctly without a better pad choice.

S17+ is a must. You can use whatever you feel comfortable with with regards to cutting and finishing but S17+ is the one that fits perfectly for enhancing to a higher level tan a typical finishing polish as there is actual level of correction from word go.


----------



## ROMEYR32

Loving this thread!


----------



## Roy

Apologies for my absence on this thread, work commitments have kept me firmly away from my favourite forum! Anyway looks like Russ and Scott have done a great job on answering everyones questions :thumb:

Anyway, I'm still loving the Scholl compounds / polishes, some I'm even considering getting in the 5l size.

This picture says it all, a quick enhancement carried out yesterday afternoon and this morning. Picture is straight off my camera (rubbish point and shoot) number plate removed, loaded on to Photobucket and shared on here, no editing, sharpening or photoshopping wouldn't know how to if I'm honest 

One four year old Aston Martin DB9 that had plenty of defects for me to go at. (Swirls, scratches, buffer trails, bird marks etc)

Products used S3Gold and A15 Plus *=*









Rgds, Roy


----------



## neo8047

Looks fantastic Roy. What was your pad choices?


----------



## Reflectology

Just completed a Bentley Continental Enhancement with Just A15+ and a Black Farecla Finishing Foam....look out for it in the studio in the next few hrs.....


----------



## BRUNBERG

Just finishing foam, that's mental. How come you went A15 and not S17+ Russ?


----------



## Leemack

Did you use the A15 for it's LSP ready type ability?


----------



## BRUNBERG

Knowing Russ he went lime prime after the A15+ lol


----------



## Reflectology

BRUNBERG said:


> Just finishing foam, that's mental. How come you went A15 and not S17+ Russ?


Went A15+ because I almost always finish with it now and I find that you can tease it a little more at low speed, which is how I find it works best....



Showshine said:


> Did you use the A15 for it's LSP ready type ability?


Whilst I do like its LSP finish and have had no issues with anything sitting on it it was a special sort of finish I was after, I said a few months ago that only one polish can rival S17+ and this is it....I did have to strip it of all its LSP afterwards though as my new Ceramic Coat went on this....really special finish....


----------



## Leemack

I used S17+ for the first time yesterday :doublesho

Anyone who uses a machine and doesn't use this stuff is stuck in the 90's :lol:

Amazing stuff


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

What kind of durability do you get from A15 Russ?


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Also, which pads are you guys using with S3 Gold for heavy correction? Wool I assume?


----------



## Reflectology

RussZS said:


> What kind of durability do you get from A15 Russ?


The durability isnt listed but I had about 3-4 months on my van....


RussZS said:


> Also, which pads are you guys using with S3 Gold for heavy correction? Wool I assume?


Not a lover of wool but had to use it for overspray last week with S3 but generally Black and White Spider Sandwich Pad...


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Cheers. I got some Spider pads from Elite earlier this week.

I'll add some blue and orange foam pads and see how I get on along with the A15

I only have 250ml bottles at the moment, and find them a pain for dispensing the polish (big blobs!). What do you guys use?


----------



## Reflectology

The one let down with the polishes are the bottles but you can get dispensers for them at a few quid, should be available at the same outlet really....


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

I'll see if Spautopia do them, I need some of their wool pads anyway

Cheers once again for your help


----------



## Reflectology

They do have them mate....


----------



## Roy

neo8047 said:


> Looks fantastic Roy. What was your pad choices?


Because of its many nice curves :thumb: I chose 3m Yellow waffle, followed up by the Scholl Orange one.


----------



## BRUNBERG

As above you need to decanter the Scholl polishes as they dispense far too much product


----------



## Dre

Can not really find it but are the polishes and pads especially designed for use on a rotary or are they also useful on a DA?


----------



## Reflectology

Suitable for both mate but as with all polishes you do get best results via rotary....


----------



## Mr_Scisco

Great thread. 

Having read through. If I was to scrap all polishes, pads and theorys out of my collection and started afresh with scholl what would the reccomendations be to buy into it.
There are lots of spider and sandwich spider running around but no ********** "this is what you need" .

A polish/pad that can correct heavy defects 
A polish pad that can finish well
A polish/pad for those 1 stage spruce up

Will S17+ do most of the above with just different pad selection and technique?

Reccomendations would be appreciated


----------



## Beau Technique

Near as damn it, yes. You may require a light finishing polish afterwards on the odd occasion but S17+ does a multitude of things all by pad choice.


----------



## Demetrios72

Scrim-1- said:


> Just wondering who stocks the scholl concepts range in the uk?
> cheers


Elite car care mate


----------



## Davemm

are you guys doing a wipe down with ipa after? 

how much does this product correct/fill ?


----------



## Mr_Scisco

Hot diggity. Thanks Scott. What Pads would you reccomend please. I know you use 3M a fair amount. Like I say, starting a fresh collection.

I may add A15+ to it too. I see Russ is champoining this as a finishing polish
Again a pad guide would be of great help if you could spare the time please. I know you boys have given a fair ammount on this thread.


----------



## Deeper Detail

Davemm said:


> are you guys doing a wipe down with ipa after?
> 
> how much does this product correct/fill ?


Of course dave else how do you know what you have achieved? 
Correction wise, I have come across no better in all the range and any filling your going to get is in terms of any oils added, which is the same across the board for polishes, to lessen dusting and increase work time, or the way the polish works.... 
A15+ may fill more due to it's make up and protection properties, but again, IPA reveals the finish like everything else....


----------



## Deeper Detail

BRUNBERG said:


> As above you need to decanter the Scholl polishes as they dispense far too much product


My custom bottles... As you say, the standard big ones don't give you too much control....


----------



## Beau Technique

Demetri said:


> Elite car care mate


Plus Shinearama and a couple of others that are either not paid up for selling or not on here:thumb:



Davemm said:


> are you guys doing a wipe down with ipa after?
> 
> how much does this product correct/fill ?


Correction wise its the poodles plums. Filling wise, very little unless its not worked correctly in which case the carriers can fill slightly. If in doubt, IPA but worked correclt there is very little change in finish after a wipe down tbh.



Mr_Scisco said:


> Hot diggity. Thanks Scott. What Pads would you reccomend please. I know you use 3M a fair amount. Like I say, starting a fresh collection.
> 
> I may add A15+ to it too. I see Russ is champoining this as a finishing polish
> Again a pad guide would be of great help if you could spare the time please. I know you boys have given a fair ammount on this thread.


Wool - Farecla, Scholl foamed wool, Lakecountry foamed wool, flexi pads wool.

Cutting pads - Scholl orange, Scholl white both sandwich pads. I didnt get on with the spider sandwich but like everything its a matter of choice and preference.

Polishing - Lake country white ccs, Planet polish blue / green, 3M yellow.

Finishing - 3M blue

Thats about all I can give you as many will use other pad choices but all the afor mentioned work very well on a multitude of sins.


----------



## Mr_Scisco

Perfect Scott. Thanks very much for the helpfull info. Hmmm, time to see how deep the pockets are me thinks!!


----------



## Globy

Hi mates,

I have had been reading about what pads we shloud use with Scholl, and I don't understand quite well.
It is the spider sandwich , but when you talk about orange pads and etc, do you mean Scholl concepts spider pads or the scholl concept orange pad?? 

Another thing is that you can go with S17+ only 1 step? or we have to use a cut pad,( it will create some swirls I thinks) and then a secong pass with a finishing pad??


----------



## ianFRST

the spider pads are £11 each!!!! eeeeeek!!


----------



## Reflectology

filling as Scott has pointed out, very little once the system is nailed....it creates the physical shine and not the visual shine.... see here click me

Pad wise all but the wool have a near perfect finish, but thats all down to technique and ability, this is where the controversy comes in....some like the SSP and some dont....i love it....the black pad for me is their worst product, just think it loads up far too quickly....

S17+....straight through from correction to finish with either 1 or 2 pad choices....the same goes for A15+ but I have found that slightly more product is needed with A15+ with the way I use it....

For technique the scholl system is the only one i have had excellent results from "teasing" which is what I do....tried it with Menz, no joy and I used to love Menz....

Regarding S17+ causing swirls it doesnt have time, again if the system is nailed down....a quick example: 1 set of an area 18inch square should be completed in less than 2 minutes, and thats correct and refine with the same pad....now me with the teasing that i do it takes a little longer but its all down to working temperament....mine is different to Scotts and so on and so on....

HTH


----------



## Reflectology

ianFRST said:


> the spider pads are £11 each!!!! eeeeeek!!


but bloody fantastic mate....


----------



## Globy

And about holos created?


----------



## Johnnyopolis

Reflectology said:


> but bloody fantastic mate....


+1 on that


----------



## Reflectology

Globy said:


> And about holos created?


They will only happen if you dont work the system to its potential, but very rare it happens....unless you use a loaded pad, if you use more than one fresh pad this will be a non starter.....I use a new pad every couple of panels, Scott uses one for each panel though, as i said earlier its all about work ethics and everyone is different....


----------



## BRUNBERG

As Russ has said I bit the bullet and bought 10 spider sandwich pads to allow mw to use one per panel. I bought 2 with my initial Scholl order but found brushing them down to be far less effective than with the 3M pads I used to use, probably due to the way they are made.

I now love this pad with S17+ and since using more pads now get no holograms whatsoever. Make sure you decanter the product as the standard bottle disperses far too much product for the short work times.


----------



## Dave KG

Had a play around with S17+ at the weekend - seems a good product, though I personally wouldn't recommend short setting it from my personal experience, especially on softer paints - with a work time of around 90 seconds with just a quick refining set, the correction was impressive but it showed evidence of filling under an IPA wipedown, revealing light machine marring. This was not evident with a longer (180 second) set where the product performed well, coming close to being on a par with the benchmark Menzerna PO85RD3.02... My writeup to follow soon


----------



## ROMEYR32

Dave KG said:


> Had a play around with S17+ at the weekend - seems a good product, though I personally wouldn't recommend short setting it from my personal experience, especially on softer paints - with a work time of around 90 seconds with just a quick refining set, the correction was impressive but it showed evidence of filling under an IPA wipedown, revealing light machine marring. This was not evident with a longer (180 second) set where the product performed well, coming close to being on a par with the benchmark Menzerna PO85RD3.02... My writeup to follow soon


Looking forward to it, It would be good to see them back to back :thumb:


----------



## Beau Technique

Globy said:


> And about holos created?


Again, all down to technique. If you cannot finish down perfectly with say an orange sandwich pad then the very least is a quick tidy up with a finishing pad and job done.


----------



## Beau Technique

Dave KG said:


> Had a play around with S17+ at the weekend - seems a good product, though I personally wouldn't recommend short setting it from my personal experience, especially on softer paints - with a work time of around 90 seconds with just a quick refining set, the correction was impressive but it showed evidence of filling under an IPA wipedown, revealing light machine marring. This was not evident with a longer (180 second) set where the product performed well, coming close to being on a par with the benchmark Menzerna PO85RD3.02... My writeup to follow soon


Wondered how long it would be
Mentioned to someone the other day it was only a matter of time before it was getting put through the science paces. Look forward to it.


----------



## Reflectology

Dave KG said:


> Had a play around with S17+ at the weekend - seems a good product, though I personally wouldn't recommend short setting it from my personal experience, especially on softer paints - with a work time of around 90 seconds with just a quick refining set, the correction was impressive but it showed evidence of filling under an IPA wipedown, revealing light machine marring. This was not evident with a longer (180 second) set where the product performed well, coming close to being on a par with the benchmark Menzerna PO85RD3.02... My writeup to follow soon


Havent witnessed it myself with the short work time but I do agree it does perform better when worked a little longer....

thing is though I dont think a write up would set a bench mark for the product having only just had a play with it, the system takes a while to nail down in all honesty and those that say they dont have issues first time round are frankly feeding words that have already been written by myself and Scott, so basically Dave i am fully expecting a sort of restricted review....this is not taking anything away from you but the likes of both scott and myself have been using it for a long time so dont really think where your write up would not basically compare but fit in....


----------



## Dave KG

Reflectology said:


> Havent witnessed it myself with the short work time but I do agree it does perform better when worked a little longer....
> 
> thing is though I dont think a write up would set a bench mark for the product having only just had a play with it, the system takes a while to nail down in all honesty and those that say they dont have issues first time round are frankly feeding words that have already been written by myself and Scott, so basically Dave i am fully expecting a sort of restricted review....this is not taking anything away from you but the likes of both scott and myself have been using it for a long time so dont really think where your write up would not basically compare but fit in....


Well, having been testing a variety of products for a long time on detailing forums, I believe that my tests are fair and the testing I have done so far will be valuable with accompanying videos to show the sets I am using to achieve the results. Of course, results might improve subtly with continued use, however do bear in mind that a lot can be seen from initial testing of products which I believe is very valuable to the forum so it is a pity that you do not see it this way. However, please feel free to contribute to threads and video your own methods and how you hone your technique as I have been doing for years for the benefits of the forum to show how the results of S17+ can be maximised rather than simply trying to put down a review that has not yet been written.


----------



## Dave KG

Additionally, if short setting a product does reveal that it fills after an IPA wipedown, then this shows beyond doubt that the product has the potential to fill, which is a very important point which must be considered.


----------



## Reflectology

Dave KG said:


> Well, having been testing a variety of products for a long time on detailing forums, I believe that my tests are fair and the testing I have done so far will be valuable with accompanying videos to show the sets I am using to achieve the results. Of course, results might improve subtly with continued use, however do bear in mind that a lot can be seen from initial testing of products which I believe is very valuable to the forum so it is a pity that you do not see it this way. However, please feel free to contribute to threads and video your own methods and how you hone your technique as I have been doing for years for the benefits of the forum to show how the results of S17+ can be maximised rather than simply trying to put down a review that has not yet been written.


not knocking that you dont contribute and your write ups do help the forum, but as for telling me to "*feel free to contribute*" i think thats a bit of a slap in the face comment, a little cheeky if you will....I dont do video mate coz i simply dont have the time unlike some....

Now i am not knocking your write up but to use a product once and do a write up I think is a little premature for me, maybe if you said you had been using it a few months then a different view may have come across....

It feels as though when certain folk on here post things in the Studio or give advice of a product you are quick to jump on board and offer an opinion that degrades the original topic value....

I will look forward to your review and may even agree with some of it but please dont contradict me by saying feel free to contribute....otherwise I will do what you want and leave it all down to you....I am pretty sure that would go down like a fart in a space suit should info that is offered on the products suddenly stops and is handed over to a master of science like yourself....


----------



## calinsanchez

I love the S17+ with blue pad and S3 Gold with Spider sandwich black/white. For finishing S40 or S17 with the new version of pad black.


----------



## Dave KG

Reflectology said:


> not knocking that you dont contribute and your write ups do help the forum, but as for telling me to "*feel free to contribute*" i think thats a bit of a slap in the face comment, a little cheeky if you will....I dont do video mate coz i simply dont have the time unlike some....
> 
> Now i am not knocking your write up but to use a product once and do a write up I think is a little premature for me, maybe if you said you had been using it a few months then a different view may have come across....
> 
> It feels as though when certain folk on here post things in the Studio or give advice of a product you are quick to jump on board and offer an opinion that degrades the original topic value....
> 
> I will look forward to your review and may even agree with some of it but please dont contradict me by saying feel free to contribute....otherwise I will do what you want and leave it all down to you....I am pretty sure that would go down like a fart in a space suit should info that is offered on the products suddenly stops and is handed over to a master of science like yourself....


Hmmm, Russ, your post is rather - shall we say, abrupt, or even rude and might I say, without good reason in my opinion. It seems like you are wishing to defend products against a review that has not even been written so you don't know what is to be said and what is not - why? Perhaps a professional attitude would be better here.

If I may address a couple of points you are raising here - videos take little time to set up, but if you are really that rushed off your feet then fair enough, there is no need to video the sets, but you will have ideas of set lengths and pressure, speeds, machine movements etc all of which will be beneficial to add to reviews...

Yes, I have only been using S17+ for a short time in comparison, but it is long enough to begin to get the feel for certain aspects of a product. Of course, the review should be read and will be written with the point of view of starting testing and seeing how improvements can be sought in the results (which were actually quite impressive to be honest  ). To say that the product is used just once suggests the review is based on a single set and that is it - not so, I can assure you, I have been testing things for long enough to know that is not effective and have been trying quite a variety of sets, pads and styles to see the ins and outs of the product to give a better informed opinion of it. Longer experience adds benefit too, in addition to testing a product in a more "lab-style" way to see how it performs.

With regard to your penultimate paragraph, I'm sorry, perhaps I am reading it incorrectly here but it sounds like an accusation - ie, I am simply posting to degrade original opinions, that is to post to degrade others? I'm sorry, but I take that rather seriously, as to me it is quite offensive to have it suggested that I am only posting to degrade - I post because I enjoy detailing and am trying to be helpful where I can, certainly not to degrade. Certain folk? Am I to read from this that you are suggesting I am singling out, or victimising? Serious accusation, perhaps you can clarify for me here, as I find this a rather aggressive post in reply to what is essentially me saying I have been testing products and I will be reviewing them shortly. 

Your last paragraph... hmmm... I fear you are verging on a bit of a personal attack with the sarcasm of "master of science" here, which again is rather upsetting for a professional detailer. I am not contradicting you. I am posting my thoughts based on what I have taken time to find out, which may or may not agree with your results - this is not a contradiction by suggesting you contribute to the thread, rather an invitation to open up valuable discussion which will benefit all. If you do not wish to contribute, fair enough, but to suggest that folk are just going to stop sharing information just because I am posting a review of my own opinions (which, after all, I am entitled to) is just a little bit unprofessional, no?


----------



## Reflectology

Look Dave you can take it how you feel you need to...if you feel that i have accused you in anyway then fine, if you feel that its a personal attack then fine....take it how you will but when you openly ask me to contribute to a thread that is 19 pages long where i have been constantly offering advice then I think i am entitled to throw a little crumbs dont you think, not unprofessional at all just defending what i have offered that you appear to have missed yet others seem grateful for the info provided, yeah I could sit down and do reviews but DW has a Review Team for that dont they....and to say that I have been rude mate I think your comment regarding me participating is degrading to say the least so if any of us were rude just take a moment to have a read at what you have written about me participating in a thread...you also talk about experience and that you have been testing products for long enough...but we wont go down the route of experience eh....

Now I have also said that I may agree with some of the write up and i am looking forward to it, and that it does produce better results if worked for longer, i merely took offence to your comment regarding "feel free"...red rag to bull mate....

Now end of bickering I just dont have time for it, and though some people get off an a debate i just get heated when people say I should contribute to a thread that seems to be well into a long helpful discussion....

Can we end it at that mate please....


----------



## Dave KG

Reflectology said:


> Look Dave you can take it how you feel you need to...if you feel that i have accused you in anyway then fine, if you feel that its a personal attack then fine....take it how you will but when you openly ask me to contribute to a thread that is 19 pages long where i have been constantly offering advice then I think i am entitled to throw a little crumbs dont you think, not unprofessional at all just defending what i have offered that you appear to have missed yet others seem grateful for the info provided, yeah I could sit down and do reviews but DW has a Review Team for that dont they....and to say that I have been rude mate I think your comment regarding me participating is degrading to say the least so if any of us were rude just take a moment to have a read at what you have written about me participating in a thread...you also talk about experience and that you have been testing products for long enough...but we wont go down the route of experience eh....
> 
> Now I have also said that I may agree with some of the write up and i am looking forward to it, and that it does produce better results if worked for longer, i merely took offence to your comment regarding "feel free"...red rag to bull mate....
> 
> Now end of bickering I just dont have time for it, and though some people get off an a debate i just get heated when people say I should contribute to a thread that seems to be well into a long helpful discussion....
> 
> Can we end it at that mate please....


My comment about feeling free to contribute, if you read my post, is regarding the writeup that I will be doing on the products, not this thread. At no point am I saying you have not contributed, I am inviting you to contribute to the writeup I do on School once I get round to doing my small review of it. End of. At no point am I, or anyone else for that matter, suggesting that you have not been helpful in this thread - you have read into what I have written and come to 2 + 2 = 7 there, which is a pity as that seemed to lead to your post where you were being quite accusatory without just reason. I have no red rags to wave, but it is a pity that there are bulls waiting to respond in any case.

If it was a case of the red mist, fair enough, but sit back and think how someone who puts a lot of effort into reviews, posts etc might feel when another:

a) suggests the reviews are restricted, essentially questioning their value

and

b) accuses you of posting to degrade others.

And you might then realise what I have taken exception to here.

Happy to end it here, seems to be a case of crossed wires, but it just seems that you posted to put down a review that I have not even written, and I can't figure out why you would want to do that.


----------



## Beau Technique

Personally, im looking forward to it as its been one of those things on the "to do" list. Its quite helpfull that the breakdown will no doubt be through and then even more helpfull when other users can add there 2 pence worth into the equation and maybe even conjure up an even better method or technique to coax the product into best format. Im quietly confident ive got it down but always open to varied opinion. Im sure I mentioned somewhere that if the product isnt worked correctly then it does have potential to fill. Like everything, its all down to time worked / how worked and with what pad etc.


----------



## Dave KG

Beau Technique said:


> Personally, im looking forward to it as its been one of those things on the "to do" list. Its quite helpfull that the breakdown will no doubt be through and then even more helpfull when other users can add there 2 pence worth into the equation and maybe even conjure up an even better method or technique to coax the product into best format. Im quietly confident ive got it down but always open to varied opinion. Im sure I mentioned somewhere that if the product isnt worked correctly then it does have potential to fill. Like everything, its all down to time worked / how worked and with what pad etc.


This is the case with all polishes and I believe it is great to see lots of different methods and ideas for how to work the products. So far, I've only played with S17+ but it has impressed me enough to look into the rest of the range... did several different sets and styles, some classic little tricks including regeneration to see what I could get it to do in my initial tests and the correction speed is impressive but the potential to fill when short setting was the slight worry. But with longer work times it was competing well with 85RD3.02, which is mighty impressive and I found myself using slightly less of the S17+. Definitely an interesting product, and good to see another option for those looking to machine polish :thumb:


----------



## Deeper Detail

I have to say I side with Russ, Scott and my own experience, not taking away your testing and review Dave at all... It's all in the mastering of a product.

I look forward to this and your views, as I am a full time detailer like Russ and Scott and have gained a lot of knowledge from them, so, even more tweaking of an already excellent product will be a bonus..... 
I will say this though, S17+ doesn't dust up like power finish, and S3 gold, because your using less product.......


----------



## Dave KG

RuFfBoY said:


> I have to say I side with Russ, Scott and my own experience, not taking away your testing and review Dave at all... It's all in the mastering of a product.
> 
> I look forward to this and your views, as I am a full time detailer like Russ and Scott and have gained a lot of knowledge from them, so, even more tweaking of an already excellent product will be a bonus.....
> I will say this though, S17+ doesn't dust up like power finish, and S3 gold, because your using less product.......


This is the case with all polishes, and is not something I am saying otherwise - what I was saying is that just because the review is being written showing my earlier results with a product doesn't make it "restricted" as described. This review hasn't even been written yet, of course, yet it seemed to come under fire which is a bit of a shame in my eyes but never mind, people have their reasons. I fully support tweaking and testing, and retesting and analysing - it always acts to improve the results you can get, and I will likely be doing a few reviews on S17+ as I trial different methods other than the few I have currently being playing with. Hopefully it will add some value to forum


----------



## Dan J

I havent used the rest of the range yet! but have through scotts recomendation used S17+ and found it a dream to use and the results were achieved with ease, i found it had very low dusting, definatly one to have in your arsenal of polishes.


----------



## Reflectology

Dave KG said:


> This is the case with all polishes, and is not something I am saying otherwise - what I was saying is that just because the review is being written showing my earlier results with a product doesn't make it "restricted" as described. This review hasn't even been written yet, of course, yet it seemed to come under fire which is a bit of a shame in my eyes but never mind, people have their reasons. I fully support tweaking and testing, and retesting and analysing - it always acts to improve the results you can get, and I will likely be doing a few reviews on S17+ as I trial different methods other than the few I have currently being playing with. Hopefully it will add some value to forum


Dave just leave it alone, your carrying the argument forward, now who's being unprofessional....


----------



## Dave KG

Reflectology said:


> Dave just leave it alone, your carrying the argument forward, now who's being unprofessional....


Russ - I am discussing clearly with others my concerns, and also discussing the testing. Not carrying an argument forward. Do yourself a favour here, and loose the red mist in your posts as the above post just looks like a childish personal jibe where all that is occurring is a discussion about testing methods and the relevance and value of reviews.

Nobody is questioning the value of your input throughout this thread, which will continue to serve value. One would hope that when I write up my own reviews, they will add value and combined with all other posts help to draw a bigger and bigger picture of the Scholl products. Rather than devaluing a thread before it is written, why not just see it as a further discussion to broaden the picture? Rather than highlighting an argument that doesn't exist, why not continue to share your own views on the products and your own results? Much better for all involved to share ideas with the products, and look for ways to enhance the way it performs


----------



## Reflectology

Dave KG said:


> This is the case with all polishes, and is not something I am saying otherwise - what I was saying is that just because the review is being written showing my earlier results with a product doesn't make it *"restricted" as described. This review hasn't even been written yet, of course, yet it seemed to come under fire which is a bit of a shame in my eyes but never mind, people have their reasons.* I fully support tweaking and testing, and retesting and analysing - it always acts to improve the results you can get, and I will likely be doing a few reviews on S17+ as I trial different methods other than the few I have currently being playing with. Hopefully it will add some value to forum


in bold mate, direct "jibe" at me I think....

Now i let you have the last word mate but if you wanted to I could carry it on, but frankly mate I could give 2 squirts of rusty monkey **** about you and you big I am attitude....yes I do realise that you d a lot for this and other forums and most members appreciate and value your reviews, as do i when its a product I have yet to use....

I think if you look back at my post regarding this debate you will find that that I have said i am looking forward to it and would agree that the products do give better results if worked longer, they will hologram, but thats the case with most from a loaded pad....

So there you are, I am not knocking your review before it starts I just thought 1 use is a bit premature for a write up, its like me doing a review of the ceramic coat i have just used and give my findings, after just one use....dont think it would be a fair outcome to be honest....

so mate stop throwing in the odd spanner to your subtly worded comments and just get on with the topic in hand....

So in your words *sit back and think how someone who puts a lot of effort into reviews, posts etc might feel when another*

Blatantly tells another to "*Feel Free to contribute*" which was an insult to what I have already posted in this thread, it was not a comment to contribute to your review but to the thread in general, and I am not the only one to see it that way as a few have been in touch stating it was a direct jibe at me and frankly disrespectful....so again in your words "*Happy to end it here, seems to be a case of crossed wires"*

or are you going to post something like this straight afterwards...."*but it just seems that you posted to put down a review that I have not even written, and I can't figure out why you would want to do that."*

I left it at the above *^* comment and took it on the chin....I dont have red mist flying about just didnt appreciate your comment as you didnt appreciate mine, simple as ....now can we leave it at that PLEASE....


----------



## Eurogloss

RuFfBoY said:


> My custom bottles... As you say, the standard big ones don't give you too much control....


Hey Ruff, where did you get those bottles ?
I did something similar to what you did and now I don't waste polishes any more ! Those pop up Tips are brilliant no more clogged polishes !

Brilliant Idea mate :thumb:

I think we should write to Scholl Concepts and show them our idea 

Mario


----------



## Dave KG

Russ, your attitude in your above post says it all to me really, so yes, it probably is best to just leave it here and as such this will be my last post regarding the matter. In terms of being disrespectful, inviting you to comment in the post that I will be writing - if you and others find that disrespectful then that is a great shame, and as I stated in my previous posts, neither I nor anyone else is questioning you input in this thread. Personal attacks at my attitude and swearing in your above post however does nothing to contribute to discussing issues in a level-headed way which is the main reason I think it is best this is left here.

Put simply, to avoid any further crossed wires and confusion: your description of my review as "restricted" seemed to be putting the review down before it had even been written, and fails to see what actually goes into product testing - not just a couple of sets here and there and then up with a writeup. When I discussed this and described why I believed the review would have value and invited you to comment in it, you saw fit to attack my posts and accuse me of posting to degrade others (ref: your paragraph about The Studio) - something which was, in my opinion, unjust and quite offensive and seemed to me to be moving away from the case in hand and turning the attention to me personally. Perhaps this was not your intention. 

Now, if you have read into my comment about feeling free to contribute to my thread and decided that what I meant by that was that you have not contributed at all to Scholl discussions, then I apollogise for that as that was not my intentions with that comment - my intentions were to invite you to comment on the review I will be doing soon which will have videos so you can add your thoughts on technique as well... the videos simply show how I was getting it to work best for me following a variety of different working styles. It will be interesting to see if there are any similarities, differences, what the differences may be.

Now - let's go onto some useful product discussion here regarding a point about loaded pads  S17+ is just the first of the products I have started trialling and it has sparked my interest in the range.

This is the way you say that you can see S17+ hologramming, and this is something that I agree with, though I also saw it filling and hologramming with a pad that was not loaded but with a short set time (circa 80 - 90 seconds). My concern, and one of the tests I like to do is overload the pad to try and get a product to marr and test to see if it also fills (videoed, so you and others can see the set), is that S17+ with a loaded pad and short set seemed to leave no marring but then after an IPA wipedown revealed fine holograms which to me points to it having filling ability - in common with most machine polishes on the market, of course, but something to be very aware of. 

However, the speed of correction is impressive - in a 80 - 90 second set it seemed to remove marks that would take other products longer, but working it longer for me gave better results in terms of the refinement to the finish... Correction seemed to be at its maximum around the 2 minute mark, but extending the set allowed the product to burnish to a deeper gloss, similarly to many polishes, it benefited from long work times more for the clarity that is delivered. This is hard to photograph, but perhaps something that many users are seeing in person?


----------



## Deeper Detail

Eurogloss said:


> Hey Ruff, where did you get those bottles ?
> I did something similar to what you did and now I don't waste polishes any more ! Those pop up Tips are brilliant no more clogged polishes !
> 
> Brilliant Idea mate :thumb:
> 
> I think we should write to Scholl Concepts and show them our idea
> 
> Mario


Thanks Mario :thumb:

The bottles themselves are hand wash bottles from any supermarket (the ones with a pump dispenser top) The pop up tops are from washing up liquid bottles that I customised with little effort to match the height of the bottle neck (the thread was the same, I checked in the supermarket )

No more waste and accurate amounts dispensed


----------



## neo8047

Thanks to everyone who had valuable input into this thread. As someone new to machine polishing (rotary in particular) it is very useful to read up on how different people are working with the products, the different techniques and the potentials problems.

Hopefully in time I will come up with my own technique but to get me started it is very useful having others as a reference point.

I have just taken delivery of some S17+, a spider sandwich pad, orange and black waffle to get my started using the Scholl products.

My only concern on reading various posts is in relation to overloading the pad, especially as I have only one of each pad type. I'm also very much aware that as a "beginner" there is a tendancy to use too much product. 

I have a few quick questions that hopefully somebody will be kind enough to help me with: 

After the pad is initially primed, how much product should be used to work a 18" x 18" area (assuming this is the optimum working area?). 

How can I tell when the pad is overloaded?

Also what is the best way to clear/clean the pad?


Thanks in advance and thanks again for the all useful advice in this thread which led me to placing an order and trying the products for myself.


----------



## ROMEYR32

Hi Mate, i`m sure Russ and Scott will also advise you on this! I tend to use 3 small pea size blobs of S17 per work area. You really dont need a lot of product. I use an old toothbrush to clean the pad, followed by a wash out with fairy liquid after use.


----------



## neo8047

Thanks. Is the purpose of the toothbrush just to break up some of the product?


----------



## Dan J

neo8047 said:


> Thanks. Is the purpose of the toothbrush just to break up some of the product?


with each set you do your pad loads up with polish to the point where if left you would start to grab and potentially marr the paint so brushing/spuring the pad just cleans the excess off so the pad is cleaner and works more effectively.


----------



## Dave KG

A fuller writeup will follow soon, but just to show some of my initial findings with S17+...

Panel before (note, using manual focus to focus on the paint surface to see the defects clearly):



















Sun Gun to show the swirls before:



















From my initial testing, I was finding personally that using set times of around 3 minutes, refining at slower speeds with light pressure (supporting the weight of the rotary) were giving me the best results in terms of clarity of finish. Short-setting gave light holograms following an IPA wipedown which suggested a filling ability to the product (whether or not it contains dedicated fillers). Longer sets perhaps enhanced the clarity a little more still, and will be the subject of further testing 

The results using a green Hexlogic polishing pad:
































































What impressed me was the speed of correction - the deeper marks have been pretty much removed as you can see from the first pictures above and this happened quite early in the set, but to achieve the better clarity I found longer sets were beneficial. It is a very capable product, of that there is no doubt, and on this test (writeup will follow soon) it was on a par with Menzerna Intensive Polish which is certainly praise indeed as this is the benchmark workhorse polish.

The product is very thick in the bottle and as such, I found myself using less of it, and either put it in little dots on the pad or smeared a little into the pad with my finger, both methods seemed to work well.

This is just the beginning of my playing around, I still have lots of pad combos to try, and little tricks to look at to see if the correction and finishing can be improved on what is already impressing me.

To achieve the results above, the following machine set was used:






which after trialing different sets lengths and speeds, working at around 1500 - 1800rpm and refining with light pressure around the 1200 and 900rpm mark. Obviously, there will be many methods that will get these products to work, this is what was working for me following my initial testing


----------



## Dan J

S17+ was used here http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=200857&highlight=bmw+330d
with fantastic results imo.


----------



## Dave KG

Dan J said:


> S17+ was used here http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=200857&highlight=bmw+330d
> with fantastic results imo.


Yup, looks like you have got good correction there for sure - why did you use Lime Prime on the pad as well, or was this a separate stage? You've certainly got what looks like very nice correction of the clay bar marring there, how did the product finish down for you under bright light source?


----------



## neo8047

Thanks for the mini write up Dave and it is interesting that you used the hexlogic pads (I have a lot of those!).

What was the paint type on your test bonnet?


----------



## Dave KG

neo8047 said:


> Thanks for the mini write up Dave and it is interesting that you used the hexlogic pads (I have a lot of those!).
> 
> What was the paint type on your test bonnet?


The panel was a standard paint finish on a Jaguar (XJ) - and the paint seemed middle of the road in terms of hardness judging by the removal rates. Softer paints may be a little more prone to highlighting marring, and the non-standard panel which features in another test I was doing was softer and this is where I saw the tendancy to hologram when short-setted and fill the marring a little.

Hexlogic pads - just what I had to hand at the time, as I was wanting to see how S17+ would don on pads which are popular with a lot of people, and I do like the Hexlogic pads on foam. The spider pad is on my list of things to try next though, as I reckon it will give it more of an edge again and I want to compare S17+ and Intensive Polish on that type of pad, as well as Meguiars #105 with its SMAT abrasives. More testing to do in the future, as I build my own story of Scholl :thumb:


----------



## Dan J

Dave KG said:


> Yup, looks like you have got good correction there for sure - why did you use Lime Prime on the pad as well, or was this a separate stage? You've certainly got what looks like very nice correction of the clay bar marring there, how did the product finish down for you under bright light source?


yes the correction was good and fast aswell, that was the first time id used S17+, the lime prime was used in very very small amounts to give me a longer working time on some panels around the car which needed a bit more attention.
after wipe downs the correction was true and finished down very easily.
the marring was a mixture of extremely cold weather which made the clay prematurely stiffen and grab a bit, but in all fairness the car was very rough on first inspection which surprised me considering its age.

i was gobsmacked by the product tbh due to its ease of use and speed of correction, i didnt experience any filling tbh but i was doing fairly long sets to make sure the correction was true and thorough.

i look forward to your findings on the rest of the range as i havent used them yet.


----------



## Beau Technique

neo8047 said:


> Thanks to everyone who had valuable input into this thread. As someone new to machine polishing (rotary in particular) it is very useful to read up on how different people are working with the products, the different techniques and the potentials problems.
> 
> Hopefully in time I will come up with my own technique but to get me started it is very useful having others as a reference point.
> 
> I have just taken delivery of some S17+, a spider sandwich pad, orange and black waffle to get my started using the Scholl products.
> 
> My only concern on reading various posts is in relation to overloading the pad, especially as I have only one of each pad type. I'm also very much aware that as a "beginner" there is a tendancy to use too much product.
> 
> I have a few quick questions that hopefully somebody will be kind enough to help me with:
> 
> After the pad is initially primed, how much product should be used to work a 18" x 18" area (assuming this is the optimum working area?).
> 
> How can I tell when the pad is overloaded?
> 
> Also what is the best way to clear/clean the pad?
> 
> Thanks in advance and thanks again for the all useful advice in this thread which led me to placing an order and trying the products for myself.


Once the pad is clearly covered its time to switch pad or at the very least clean it with a toothbrush / spur. You will find it bogs down, grips and at times start to ball up hence why I change pad every panel and clean with a toothbrush each set. Usual 3 pea sized blobs doesnt cut it correctly so take a gander down below...












ROMEYR32 said:


> Hi Mate, i`m sure Russ and Scott will also advise you on this! I tend to use 3 small pea size blobs of S17 per work area. You really dont need a lot of product. I use an old toothbrush to clean the pad, followed by a wash out with fairy liquid after use.


This is very true with regards to little being used. Maybe take a look above ^ and try the oppeostite way to your normal method:thumb:



neo8047 said:


> Thanks. Is the purpose of the toothbrush just to break up some of the product?


The product can dry and clump. The toothbrush will remove excess product and keep the pad relatively fresh so it will continue to work for longer.

Having read Dave's review I can vouch for the level of correction however, the speeds to me seem a touch too high. That said, this is a test so test away.

Heres my little take I did for another forum...

_________________________________________________________________

( This is solely aimed at rotary use only )
In the few years of major paintwork enhancements and correction ive found these pads to be very good with a multitude of polish combinations. I am a huge user of Scholl polishes but do also use 3M perfect it range.

*Pads*

3M blue finishing pad - Great with any types of finishing polishes
3M black finesse it pad - great with glazes, 3M finnese it, Dodo juice need for speed.
3M yellow polishing pad - Great with Scholl S17+, 3M extrafine, Dodo Juice lime prime & need for speed.

Scholl black waffle - S17+
Scholl orange sandwich pad - S17+ or S30 and S40 but I don't recommend this for S40 personally due to pad marring.

Lake country compressor range pads
Lake country foamed purple wool - 3M fastcut +, Scholl S17+, Farecal G3.
Lake country ccs white / black - Just great pads.

Flexi pads wool
Flexi pads red waffle finishing pad - Fantastic pads for jewelling the finish.

*Polishes*

I used to be a huge fan of Menzerna but along in time I found Scholl concepts and have never looked back albeit using 3M perfect it range purely out of curiosity.

Menzerna po85rd final finish
Scholl S40
Nanotech super gloss
3M ultrafine se

Scholl S17+
Meguiars so1o system polish

3M fastcut +
Farecla G3
Menzerna powergloss

Rule of thumb is always Measure the paint prior to working and keep a close eye on the PTG ( paint depth gauge ) readings.



















start with the least aggressive combination and see what your first initial set will create. If not the desired results, attempt again. Should the finish not be what your looking for, step up to the next level of pad to aid in extra cut levels. Chances are, you will find a vast majority of the time you will find a polishing pad / medium polish combination will give great results and do the vehicle some fantastic justice. In worse cases you will use a more aggressive polish with a cutting pad which will remove a few microns of the clear coat and will look like there are more swirls than before. This is known as compound / polish marring. This will be easily rectified with a lesser aggressive polish and pad combination to refine and jewel the finish to its utmost burnished perfection. Bottom line is, if heavier compounding is needed, you will be inflicting damage to rectify damage. Sounds worse than it is but lets looks at another angle...

When you want to retreat a piece of painted wood such as a skirting board in your house. You will essentially strip the old paint back with a harsh method such as a heavy grit sand paper. This will leave the finish rough but less tarnished. Next step would be to use a lesser aggressive sand paper to level the finish out and a final light grade paper to smooth the finish. Once done and painted, it will look good as new. Same applies to polishing paintwork on a vehicle. Cut, polish, refine / jewel.

You will see on many a forum. Plenty tend to so what is known as a 50/50. This is a good show case for the pictorials but does aid in finding that combination your after to achieve great results.

When you start machine polishing its imperitive that you keep the pad face flat to the surface of the panel as you can burn through or get uneven marring put into the paint.










This is also known as half mooning, holograms or buffer trails. Due to uneven pad and pressure displacement, you will never gain a level and trail free finish. Sometimes its harder to achieve a flat pad on certain panels with hard cutting pads as they do not conform to teh contours of the panel. Should this be the case for you, a soft wool pad and foamed backing plate will help tremendously.

*Backing plates*

3M perfect it backing plate
3M finesse it backing plate
Dodo juice soft buff backing plate
Gloss it backing plate

All are very good items to have and aid in a better flow of polishing.

So you will have fitted your pad to the backing plate if you want give the pad a light spray with water or quick detailer ( just enough to feel moist, spray about 6" away ) Best product is Chemical guys polishing pad conditioner. One spray prior to first initial set really helps get the best from the pad / polish combination and primes the pad ready for work.
Add 2 - 3 pea sized drops of polish to the pad adjacent to each other. If Scholl S17+, best apply smaller drops and more of them around the pad round the pad.




























Work the polish over the area before switching on.
Now at speed 1 of the rotary ( 600-700rpm ) work the polish slowly across the panel side to side twice at this speed so you break the polish down ready to work it to its peak.
At speed 3 (1100-1300rpm ) Continue with the 1" per 2 seconds as this will work the polish evenly so you getting all the surface. You can apply about 10lbs of pressure so you get the best of the pad and product but still not bogging the rotary down or causing too higher panel temperatures.
Side to side twice then come back down to speed 2 ( 900 - 1000rpm ) to finish the last of the polish and burnish as to ensure little if no holograms are left inflicted on the finish.
With a soft microfibre cloth remove any residue and inspect your work ( this is best with a light source such as a Brinkmann torch, sungun or halogen lights at a minimum ).



















If you feel it needs a stronger cut then step up with the polish. Again if needs be step up to the next pad and so on.
If youve gone to the point of using a lite cutting pad you do the same process then come down to a polishing pad then a finshing pad reducing the strength of polishes as you go. Majority of first timers like to play it safe and break there polishing cherry with a DA polisher such as the Kestral das6 or Meguiars g220 but in all honesty, you will improve your finish but it wont de-swirl or correct to the level that a rotary will do.

_I know this is not the most concise nor indepth guide but I think it covers the raw basic parts._


----------



## Dave KG

^^ That is a nice writeup above, useful for machine polishing in general. :thumb:

Regarding the machine speeds, I know many people have been using S17+ at slower speeds, below 1500rpm for general working and this was working pretty well for me but I just felt I was getting the edge on correction from slightly faster speeds however this may be due to my moderately fast arm movements as when I slow the arm movements down, the lower rpms correction comes up... That said, I was still just getting an edge with higher speeds, especially when short setting. All in my personal experience so far of course.

The polish to pad application is very interesting and it was your diagrams I used to inform my product application and it does seem to be spreading more easily when distributed more across the pad as in the little drops. Indeed, actually wiping the polish into the pad with a finger seemed to work well too, not sure if you have tried that and what folks thoughts are on this - it is a pad priming method, similar to Kevin Brown's technique for Megs SMAT abrasives. 

At the moment, as a long time user of Menzerna and a big fan of the Meguiars 105 and 205 for their flexibility, Scholl holds its head high with me and for me ranks on a par with Menzerna as one of the best mid range cutting polishes on the market. I'm looking forward to further playing around with the products :thumb:


----------



## Reflectology

My take on it and no not a contradiction before we start....the relative high speeds used are a little too high, maybe the reason a longer set is needed to achieve the level of correction that has been had in this instance, as Dave has appeared to use a slightly watered version of the Zenith Technique, which isnt needed with this such polish, however the longer sets as you have pointed out do have a greater finish than the shorter ones and a set of my own typically takes around the 1 minute 30-40 mark....but these are at lower speeds with the start up speed recommended by Scholl at 1000rpm, this is there are there abouts my start up, I then crank it up to to no more than 1300 and work the set for about a minute to 70 seconds, so with the initial start up and spread it would work out at around the 90second mark, but this is purely for correction and refining I will do this in tandem with burnishing and this will take roughly 2 minutes per set....but the initial start up is still 1000....

I do agree that sometimes higher speeds are needed to exact revenge on those more stubborn, heavier swirls and RDS but having adopted a teasing method over the past few months i have no need to take it above 1300....

I have done a quick test via video and a few photographics from today but bit of an amateur where movie making is involved....so you may or may not get to see it....

The video and results are with the Spider Sandwich Pad, which should in its own right leave a small amunt of marring, in some case it does but in this one it hasnt....

In short the reason the set times are short is because as you have now all noticed that the correction ability is rapid, so much so that I would point to a 30-60 seconds faster than that of Menz, but i havent used it for over a year so a little rusty maybe....which when you add that extra time would indeed make a set of a longer specified time as pointed out by Dave....so it is the speed of correction that reduces the set time and this alone has a knock on effect for the way the rest of the polish reacts....

Basically although a different level of finish is being had for longer work times I think it safe to say that a 60-80 second set from Scholl S17+ would produce the same results, if not slightly better than that of a 3 minute set from the Menzerna equivalent....with that said how long would that Menzerna have to work to achieve the finish of a 3 minute set that S17+ produces....food for thought....


----------



## Dave KG

I'm sure nobody took it as a contradiction, more a different style which is great as it all adds to the story of this product. In my testing, I was finding that the slower working speeds (on reading this was what was recommended, this was my opening gambit) and shorter set times was not giving quite the correction of the higher speeds and longer set times, but this is just my own findings of the product so far and sort of follows my own line of thought - slow speed and short sets would deliver less correction than higher speeds and longer sets. The only time this would not be the case would be if the abrasives were brittle and dimished under the pressure of faster machine speeds before they could cut (bit like the old S34A) - is this the case with the abrasives in S17+?

The speed of correction is certainly an advantage that the S17+ holds, it achieves the correction it is capable of quickly, and then longer sets seem to allow the jeweling of the finish a little to get a better gloss... though, I imagine many will use a finishing polish after it anyway so this could be a moot point but still one that is worth considering in my eyes. I was finding however that I was getting better correction at higher speeds which is why I was using them, but this "teasing method" sounds interesting, so would be interested to hear what you mean by this 

In terms of the videos, does it really matter if they are ammeture? I stuck the camera on a tripod or got Allie to hold it for me, and just did a set - nothing fancy, completely ammeture but hopefully got the point across. Would be interesting to see your sets on video for comparison.

The speed of correction most certainly is food for thought, and is an advantage that S17+ holds, however it is a double-edged sword. S17+ achieves its results quickly and refines down pretty quickly too, but once you start to get to 4 or 5 minutes, the polish is drying and draggy so puts a hard limit on the set length... which on the face of it may seem like no big deal, but for me it limits its flexibility a little as Menz can be used with a regenerating method over a longer set to continually improve the correction levels it achieves and can be made to burnish and jewel really quite well. Its ability to go for long sets makes it very flexible so although it corrects a little more slowly, for me it has an edge on flexibility. But the product that trumps them all for this would be Meguiars #105, which on a polishing pad can correct as quickly as S17+ with a finishing down ability as well (pressure dependent), but can also be made to correct more through extending the set length and varying the pressures throughout the set - in terms of flexibility, it is the king in my humble opinion with only really GTechniq P1 challenging it. 

Take nothing away from S17+ though, its speed of correction is the ace up its sleeve and it is a very good polish which I have enjoyed using so far to the point where I will be looking forward to further testing and trying the lower speeds again for comparison to see what I can get it to do :thumb:


----------



## Denzle

Just ordered some S17+ to remove moderate swirls on my 10 year old BMW (E39). I have in my posession one white and one black CG hex pad. I believe the black pad is more for finishing whilst the white is more for medium/light cutting. Would the white pad be adequate or slightly under gunned for my project. Any advice would be welcome. Thank you.


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## Reflectology

Had an email from Olivier and he has been reading the thread with interest, here is a section of the email received....

*What DaveKG is removing with ipa is not fillers but the lubricant needed for the product to stay wet and have a longer working time in very dry environment.

At some point the lubricant will act as filler if not effectively wiped off but it is not intended to act as filler!

The full potential of the product is revealed when polishing a complete car (quick, easy, low consumption, nice finish) and not just with a small panel test.

- Apply some drops of product on the pad, power off rub the pad on the working area (keep it small) to spread the product (or spread it at lowest rpm).

- Always apply pressure during the first 40 seconds of correction then release pressure.

- After polishing a panel the pad is well primed, you don't need those 10+ little drops of products across the pad.

but 1 or 2 drops more often (keep working areas small) so the pad is always "wet/damp/humid".

- Press the pad on the surface to release some of the product absorbed by the foam.

- If too dry add a few drops of fresh product on driest zones of the pad (try to keep the pad homogeneously humid)

- Brush the pad between panels or when needed (when pad is dry dust appears; reason why keeping it just humid).

Always remember use very very little product once the pad is well primed*.

Regards,
Olivier

To just back up the words of Olivier pressure should be applied for the first 40 seconds and then released, this is most certainly the method with the Black and White Spider Pad.....as it is a dry pad though dust can occur with it which is why i tend to pop the interface layer of the pad in water....spin it at high speed so most of the water is off, as it is not physically on the foam there will be no fling and the damp area interface layer keeps the pad humid through heat build up, essentially keeping the polish wet or lubricated, as the heat meets the remaining water you get what could be explained as steam (not visible) working its way into the foam layer, this for me is essential only for the first set to get the pad working from the off....in my opinion this is Scholl's most productive pad, used in the correct manner and with the little tip I have just given there will be no filling and nothing but a finish that can be immediately topped with your choice of LSP....

The area in bold cannot be stressed enough, once the pad is primed and has a healthy polish base then 2 maybe 3 small droplets are needed, not your general pea sized ones just a fraction smaller....what I will give as another little tip, and purely to save product is that once you have got into a working rhythm the following drops of polish could also be dabs from the dispenser, almost none, just enough to keep the already existing layer of polish stable....the bottles for Scholl products are to say the least more attractive than productive as a lot of product is sometimes released, what you will find though is in the area surrounding the exit point of the polish will be holding a fair amount, this can be your next dab of polish, I go through very few bottles and in truth think maybe a few months ago I was using a little too much....essentially making life difficult....

I know Scott has a routine of changing pads per panel....I brush mine after each panel....twice on a roof or bonnet, for me the pad still has its base layer and only after a fair few sets will I change pads....

On the subject of filling, the jury is still out, only by using the products and completing a whole car then you will realise what you have got, there is no better product on the market for me that can cut, refine and even burnish within the time given, where burnishing is needed or just part of the process in every detail given the right pad choice and application to meet the requirements of the ambient temperature is a dream of a job as this can be taken to the times DaveKG is talking about....further enhancing the final finish....

One last thing to point out, and this is probably the most important thing regarding Scholl polishes.....Always remove the polish when wet....


----------



## Eurogloss

RuFfBoY said:


> Thanks Mario :thumb:
> 
> The bottles themselves are hand wash bottles from any supermarket (the ones with a pump dispenser top) The pop up tops are from washing up liquid bottles that I customised with little effort to match the height of the bottle neck (the thread was the same, I checked in the supermarket )
> 
> No more waste and accurate amounts dispensed


You are very welcome Ruff,

The bottles I am now using for the Scholl polishes are dish washing detergent bottles with pop up tops no more wastage so our idea should go to Scholl mate these Germans don't have a clue about practicality big chunky bottles with crappy dispensing system what were they thinking :wall:

It's amazing how simple ideas like ours make your life much easier 
:thumb:

Mario


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## Reflectology

these are what i have for dispensing product with.... http://www.schollconcepts-store.eu/en/polishing-accessories/22240-polish-dispenser-bottle-500ml


----------



## Dave KG

With regard to the filling above, the "filling potential" of a polish is usually coming from the lubricants in the polish and not dedicated fillers - for example, Intensive Polish, Ultrafina SE, Lime Prime to name but three also have the potential to fill under the correct conditions because of their lubricants. I would personally query the statement that is it not correctly wiping the product away, as the heat of a polishing process can act in some ways to "seal in" the filling effect (setting the lubricants, or other ingredients into the marring causing the filling effect) which would not be wiped off with a normal polish wipedown, necessitating the IPA wipedown or better still, bodyshop panel wipe which in my experience is even better at removing masking effects of polishes. It is not suggesting that the products contain fillers per se, but rather that the ingredients of the product which allow it to perform as it does give it the potential to mask under certain conditions and short-setting seems to be one such condition... if the abrasives break down over time, then if they are not worked correctly and broken down then the abrasives will leave light marring from the mechanical cutting action which will give the masking potential of a product something to mask. Work them longer, break them down more fully and the abrasives do not leave their own marring meaning that the masking potential has nothing to mask, and this is why you don't see the filling effect. This is the reason why there was a disagreement quite some time ago about Ultrafina SE and whether or not it filled, because those who were short-setting it were getting a masking effect from the oils in the product while others who were fully working it were not seeing this.

For further discussion on the masking effects of polishes, this thread was created by Dom and myself to discuss findings that we and many other detailers were discovering and (even if I do say so myself  ) is well worth a read:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=226414

It is very important to be aware, as pointed out above, that is is not dedicated fillers that give the masking effect but rather ingredients in the polish there for other purposes that can unintentionally give the effect and you do have to be on your guard against it.

What certainly I so agree with is the amounts of polish - it seems very thick in the bottle and the need to use small amounts is clear as overloading a pad I have seen cause clumping on the panel (similar to Intensive Polish), and really detriments the achievable clarity. I was using two tiny blobs on a primed pad, and still seemed to get better results wiping the polish into the pad which would tally with the above email about keeping the pad homogeneously moist.

Despite applying pressure and releasing the pressure for the refining passes though (which is pretty standard practice, as when refining you do not need pressure that gives a little extra cut), I was still seeing a potential to mask slightly though with short sets that were not apparent on long sets which does make me wonder about the length of time it takes to truly break the polish down... irrelevant point if you are further refining of course, but very relevant if you are going to a finish with S17+ and by long-setting it, it seems to be able to finish down very well.

Naturally, the point about panel testing vs. whole car testing is a double-edged sword - yes, a whole car polishes will give you ideas about overall pace and product consumption but panel testing gives you ideas about flexibility of the product and allows the testing of different styles and seeing how the product responds. Both have their place  Flexibility is probably my main point of concern, and I would not say that this is saying the product is bad - but is shorter life to the polishing sets, even when using sets which are "long" for S17+ does seem to make it a bit more limited than others, specifically Intensive Polish which can be sued with widely different set lengths for achieving lots of different results. The speed at which S17+ corrects cannot be denied and it is the product's strong suit from what I can see so far, but perhaps this is coming at the cost of the flexibility that Intensive Polish has from its ability to be sued on hugely different set lengths, and certainly the flexibility of the SMAT abrasive polishes from Meguiars.

Still, having seen a lot of polishes sort of come and go from the market while thing like Intensive Polish remain a benchmark, S17+ (and I presume the rest of the Scholl range) do seem to have a bit more staying power which is a testament to the way they perform... S17+ is a good polish, and nothing will take that away from it, and it holds its head high alongside other products available in the market just now


----------



## Deeper Detail

Reflectology said:


> these are what i have for dispensing product with.... http://www.schollconcepts-store.eu/en/polishing-accessories/22240-polish-dispenser-bottle-500ml


I was tempted by these and are so much more practical than the 1kg bottle... And keeping it in the family with Scholl :thumb:


----------



## Deeper Detail

Eurogloss said:


> You are very welcome Ruff,
> 
> The bottles I am now using for the Scholl polishes are dish washing detergent bottles with pop up tops no more wastage so our idea should go to Scholl mate these Germans don't have a clue about practicality big chunky bottles with crappy dispensing system what were they thinking :wall:
> 
> It's amazing how simple ideas like ours make your life much easier
> :thumb:
> 
> Mario


It is Mario and I remember when I got my first big bottle of S17+ and how much excess I was dispensing the majority of the time. 
My first bottle I decanted into was the same Mario, dish washing detergent bottle, but the particular one I used was rectangle shaped so when you was getting lower down the bottle, it wasn't quite right (I'm always tinkering and trying to make my life easier) then saw the pump dispenser bottles in the supermarket, made sure the pop up top fitted and bought half a dozen 

The S17+ bottle pictured with the rest had done a XK and I think they were 400ml if I remember correctly.... I think I could of dispensed that in one go with the big scholl's bottle


----------



## Beau Technique

Dave KG said:


> With regard to the filling above, the "filling potential" of a polish is usually coming from the lubricants in the polish and not dedicated fillers - for example, Intensive Polish, Ultrafina SE, Lime Prime to name but three also have the potential to fill under the correct conditions because of their lubricants. I would personally query the statement that is it not correctly wiping the product away, as the heat of a polishing process can act in some ways to "seal in" the filling effect (setting the lubricants, or other ingredients into the marring causing the filling effect) which would not be wiped off with a normal polish wipedown, necessitating the IPA wipedown or better still, bodyshop panel wipe which in my experience is even better at removing masking effects of polishes. It is not suggesting that the products contain fillers per se, but rather that the ingredients of the product which allow it to perform as it does give it the potential to mask under certain conditions and short-setting seems to be one such condition... if the abrasives break down over time, then if they are not worked correctly and broken down then the abrasives will leave light marring from the mechanical cutting action which will give the masking potential of a product something to mask. Work them longer, break them down more fully and the abrasives do not leave their own marring meaning that the masking potential has nothing to mask, and this is why you don't see the filling effect. This is the reason why there was a disagreement quite some time ago about Ultrafina SE and whether or not it filled, because those who were short-setting it were getting a masking effect from the oils in the product while others who were fully working it were not seeing this.
> 
> For further discussion on the masking effects of polishes, this thread was created by Dom and myself to discuss findings that we and many other detailers were discovering and (even if I do say so myself  ) is well worth a read:
> 
> http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=226414
> 
> It is very important to be aware, as pointed out above, that is is not dedicated fillers that give the masking effect but rather ingredients in the polish there for other purposes that can unintentionally give the effect and you do have to be on your guard against it.
> 
> What certainly I so agree with is the amounts of polish - it seems very thick in the bottle and the need to use small amounts is clear as overloading a pad I have seen cause clumping on the panel (similar to Intensive Polish), and really detriments the achievable clarity. I was using two tiny blobs on a primed pad, and still seemed to get better results wiping the polish into the pad which would tally with the above email about keeping the pad homogeneously moist.
> 
> *Despite applying pressure and releasing the pressure for the refining passes though (which is pretty standard practice, as when refining you do not need pressure that gives a little extra cut), I was still seeing a potential to mask slightly though with short sets that were not apparent on long sets which does make me wonder about the length of time it takes to truly break the polish down... irrelevant point if you are further refining of course, but very relevant if you are going to a finish with S17+ and by long-setting it, it seems to be able to finish down very well.
> *
> Naturally, the point about panel testing vs. whole car testing is a double-edged sword - yes, a whole car polishes will give you ideas about overall pace and product consumption but panel testing gives you ideas about flexibility of the product and allows the testing of different styles and seeing how the product responds. Both have their place  Flexibility is probably my main point of concern, and I would not say that this is saying the product is bad - but is shorter life to the polishing sets, even when using sets which are "long" for S17+ does seem to make it a bit more limited than others, specifically Intensive Polish which can be sued with widely different set lengths for achieving lots of different results. The speed at which S17+ corrects cannot be denied and it is the product's strong suit from what I can see so far, but perhaps this is coming at the cost of the flexibility that Intensive Polish has from its ability to be sued on hugely different set lengths, and certainly the flexibility of the SMAT abrasive polishes from Meguiars.
> 
> Still, having seen a lot of polishes sort of come and go from the market while thing like Intensive Polish remain a benchmark, S17+ (and I presume the rest of the Scholl range) do seem to have a bit more staying power which is a testament to the way they perform... S17+ is a good polish, and nothing will take that away from it, and it holds its head high alongside other products available in the market just now


I think this is why Scholl developed there pads with a more stern feel to them, much alike Menzerna albeit less cumbersome. Again, pad determines the level of finish. The more stern a pad, the higher the chances of pad marring but greater levels of correction from the polish by working it to its peak. Using softer pads can and may well offer a potential to fill unless as you say, over working in comparison to guideline timing of product used. I must admit, fairing it to intensive is an odd curve as I found under working, over working and even rekindlining the polish gave an element of fill yet gave incredible levels of dust in comparison to Scholl's offering. Im still yet to fins something that I would whole heartedly agree was akin to S17+ in its speed of correcting or ease of use.


----------



## Reflectology

Beau Technique said:


> I think this is why Scholl developed there pads with a more stern feel to them, much alike Menzerna albeit less cumbersome. Again, pad determines the level of finish. The more stern a pad, the higher the chances of pad marring but greater levels of correction from the polish by working it to its peak. Using softer pads can and may well offer a potential to fill unless as you say, over working in comparison to guideline timing of product used. I must admit, fairing it to intensive is an odd curve as I found under working, over working and even rekindlining the polish gave an element of fill yet gave incredible levels of dust in comparison to Scholl's offering. Im still yet to fins something that I would whole heartedly agree was akin to S17+ in its speed of correcting or ease of use.


I have to agree mate, using the pads that complement the polish seem to gain greater results yet even Menz pads seemed to struggle with their own polishes where dust was concerned, and the level of correction from a like for like polish and pad make nothing can match Scholl, which I think we are all in agreement but its just so refreshing to use the new age in polish and begin to move on technique wise...Showshines statement of Stuck in the 90's makes me think that are the techniques still 90's, well I guess they must be....

its time to move on and also move forward, Scholl have moved forward with their way of thinking which means we have to move forward with techniques and if that means quicker work times then fine by me....


----------



## HeavenlyDetail

RuFfBoY said:


> I was tempted by these and are so much more practical than the 1kg bottle... And keeping it in the family with Scholl :thumb:


I agree , ive tried loads of decanted bottles and these are my faves now although i have to be honest and say i slice the cords that hold the tops as they bend back and get on my nerves when using the bottle. Ive got about 25 of these now and have done my 3m ad scholl polishes already.


----------



## Dave KG

Yes, I am looking forward to giving the spider pads a proper run out as well and seeing what can be achieved with them as well... perhaps this will up the speed yet again, although if a pad is stiff and has its own cut one must be very wary of the pad marring that can be introduced and then filled... there is a good demonstration of Lime Prime doing this, having its correction pushed from a pad that gives it a more thorough "work out" so to speak but the pad itself was leaving its own marring that the oils then filled... again, I'd be keen to fully assess under wipedowns but these tests are coming, all for good fun of course :thumb:

The dust with PO85RD3.02 is an interesting thing though, as it is not something I really experience overly unless the pad is overloaded and this is with very long work times. I can get it to dust with a lot of polish on the pad though, and in fairnedd, S17+ seems less prone to dusting with an overloaded pad.

It certainly brings one aspect new to the fore, S17+, being its speed of correction but for me, still slightly at the cost of ultimate flexibility. It pushes one aspect forward but not them all, but as always, you pays your money  In terms of really pushing boundaries though, for me it has been the new SMAT abrasives from Meguiars and similar style abrasives in G-Techniq's P1 that have really moved polishing on from delivering huge flexibility from one product... perhaps if we were then to combine S17+'s short work times with the superb flexibility of 105 and 205 we'd be on to the ultimate in machine polishing technology (or do we need an aspect of the microfibre system's leveling ability in there as well?!!). With every manufacturer, thing are progressing and techniques changing - while many may think we are nuts, it is actually quite exciting! :thumb:


----------



## Reflectology

The black and white sandwich is my go to pad, almost 99% of the jobs I do and the finishes have all been created with this pad, whilst I can get it to finish down perfectly (multi coloured Z4) on its own i do though reach for another black pad for finishing....what you will find with this pad is that it too has the ability to "level", especially orange peel, not perfectly but significantly enough to impress without the need for wet sanding, its structure is interesting as the black interface layer is quite firm as is the foam layer, but once heat gets into it the foam softens, its Spider construction then begins to move more freely, which gives it the finishing ability, but as I have stated in a previous post there is a little tip in there by wetting the rear of the pad and spinning off the excess, as you are not physically wetting the foam no water comes into contact with the polish yet heat generated creates a quite impressive steam pad as the polish on the pad is broken down further due to the steam being created, this then gives the finish that is truly acceptable, again the Z4 I did....some dont get on with it but all i can say is that if anyone has some they cannot get on with PM me and I will take them off you....

The pad is truly "law breaking" due to its structure and ability....this is the thread I refer to....
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=218818


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Russ, I have been using S17 today with the white sandwich spider pad, and it was leaving a hint of marring behind. Which Scholl spot pad do you recommend I use as a 'step down' in terms of cut? Do they do the Orange Spider pad in a spot pad?

S17 + White Spider Sandwich on an R32 = WOW!

Russ.


----------



## ianFRST

marc you OCD freak  i take it youve turned the backs of the bottles to the front because youve cut the front of the labels off? 

id do that too :lol::doublesho

where can i get the bottles from? :lol:


----------



## georgeandpeppa

snap,where can i get them bottles to!


----------



## amiller

georgeandpeppa said:


> snap,where can i get them bottles to!


http://www.schollconcepts-store.eu/en/polishing-accessories/22240-polish-dispenser-bottle-500ml


----------



## Porta

georgeandpeppa said:


> snap,where can i get them bottles to!


From Swisswax 










Just kidding, Amiller already got the link

http://www.schollconcepts-store.eu/en/polishing-accessories/22240-polish-dispenser-bottle-500ml


----------



## Reflectology

RussZS said:


> Russ, I have been using S17 today with the white sandwich spider pad, and it was leaving a hint of marring behind. Which Scholl spot pad do you recommend I use as a 'step down' in terms of cut? Do they do the Orange Spider pad in a spot pad?
> 
> S17 + White Spider Sandwich on an R32 = WOW!
> 
> Russ.


I have the normal orange spot pads mate but very rarely break them out as I have the small white spider sandwich pads,the red and white seem a little softer to the touch, obviously the teeny weeny areas that are a little delicate will see the the softer orange ones but these pads are so versatile mate, the ssp is a pad that can finish extremely well with no marring no matter what paint, all it takes is time, the more you play the more you will get used to how it works....the only way the pad will marr is too much product as the foam layer is actually extremely soft and forgiving once heat is generated....

glad you are liking the system though mate and are trying to stick to it....this is the reason polish manufacturers also make pads, to use with their own polishes.... a comment from Scholl's website is....

_*The use of other polishing pads in combination with Scholl Concepts' polishing and cutting compounds should be considered carefully. The best results can only be obtained when the pads and compounds, like a precision watch, have been meticulously designed to enhance each other. Only then will you get the best finish in the shortest possible time.

Every day practice shows that customers who mix different finishing systems have difficulty maintaining a consistent finishing quality. This is why we recommend that you choose a comprehensive paint finishing system from a single supplier and NEVER combine finishing products from different manufacturers*_

its ok mixing pads like a religion with other polishes but some systems work only with their own pads to the very best ability, what feels comfortable and normal practice for other polishes may not be the same with Scholl....although I have used a Farecla Total Polishing Pad with S17+ and pretty good results but the price of the pads was way above the Scholl orange, I think the way it worked was because the structure of both pads is very similar but I use only one pad that is not Scholl, but i am sure that will change in the near future....


----------



## stangalang

So do all the polishes in the range have such short/quick work times? Even the heavy cut and finishing polishes?


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## Porta

Reflectology said:


> I have used a Farecla Total Polishing Pad with S17+ and pretty good results but the price of the pads was way above the Scholl orange, I think the way it worked was because the structure of both pads is very similar but I use only one pad that is not Scholl, but i am sure that will change in the near future....


Try out the Ultimate Orange from Flexipads, they should be very similar; the only difference is the price.

http://www.flexipadshop.com/product6000824catno170824.html


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## calinsanchez

S17+ with pad Sandwich red/white is OK too.
My favourite combo is S17+ and spider sandwich black/white, polish in one step


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## MK1Campaign

Envy Valeting said:


> Funny how everyones catching on to how good the polish is now!
> When I 1st started using it in 2009 all everyone did was be surprised at how "expensive" it was compared to 3M for example yet it works that well that the price can be easily justified by a business in how much time it potentially saves you when you use it for your correction work.
> The S17+ and the S3 Gold are pretty amazing IMHO.
> 
> How are those of you that have the purple pads from Olivier finding them?
> 
> Tim


Weve started using it on fresh OEM ceramic and it makes 3M look absolutely useless. For such a big manufacturer they are so far behind.


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## MK1Campaign

Id also recommend SPAutopia too. I ordered a few items on a Friday afternoon and it was delivered at 9am Saturday. Very good for the 2.95 P+P.


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## ianFRST

ive just got a white spider pad, i can believe how hard it is!! lol


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## Scrim-1-

What sort of correction would i get using S17+ With the black scholl waffle foam pad?


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## Beau Technique

Scrim-1- said:


> What sort of correction would i get using S17+ With the black scholl waffle foam pad?


Depends on the paint type and how tarnished it is. An improvement but hard one judge.


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## Scrim-1-

Ok, i spent a good hour or so on the spoiler on my brothers astra heavy swirling with medium amount of RDS.

I set of using 3m yellow pad and S17+ after one pass there was a massive improvement, Set out another pass and was fantastic swirls were gone (after ipa wipedown) finished down perfectly with no holograms.

Although i was left with some RDS Marks, (majority were removed) could these be removed using S17+ but with a different pad or would i need to step up the polish to lets say S3 Gold?


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## Beau Technique

Again, depends on how deep the RDS is but S17+ on wool can cut RDS down quite quickly and comfortably.


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## Scrim-1-

You cannot feel them but can see them, some do look pretty deep. Which wool pad would you recomend with S17+


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## Beau Technique

I would go with Farecla wool as it has a great bite but can be forgiving where as Scholl's own wool and 3M perfect it wool are a touch abrupt.


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## Scrim-1-

What are the Lake country wool pads like to use? only after a spot pad at the moment for testing.


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## Beau Technique

Scrim-1- said:


> What are the Lake country wool pads like to use? only after a spot pad at the moment for testing.


The purple foamed wool have a reasonable bite and are very workable so a good choice.


----------



## Scrim-1-

Thanks buddy, also what pad would you recommend for finishing when using s40


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## stangalang

stangalang said:


> So do all the polishes in the range have such short/quick work times? Even the heavy cut and finishing polishes?


Bump!


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## Reflectology

stangalang said:


> Bump!


will answer this at somepoint of tomorrow, havent really been on much....


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## Beau Technique

Scrim-1- said:


> Thanks buddy, also what pad would you recommend for finishing when using s40


Scholl recomend the orange sandwich pad and most will stick with manufacturers claim but I found 3M blue work very well with S40. Pads can get loaded quickly so best to have a few to hand as S40 doesnt dry so is hard to brush / spur the pad.


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## Dan J

Beau Technique said:


> The purple foamed wool have a reasonable bite and are very workable so a good choice.


2nd this the Lake country purple wool pads are really nice to use.


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## Mirror Finish Details

Doing my first Merc tomorrow with Scholl, thanks to Phil at Shinearama for the samples.

I will report back.


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## Reflectology

stangalang said:


> So do all the polishes in the range have such short/quick work times? Even the heavy cut and finishing polishes?


Hiya mate, the majority of Scholl Polishes work in exactly the same way, the abrasives have effectively done their work in the first 15-30 seconds, ultimately that depends on how much you have worked the polish and used the correct speed, all Scholl polishes are generally to be started at around a 1000rpm....

The only one that has an "official" longer working time if needed is A15+....this has the ability to fill as you work longer but also you can determine how well it finishes down as an LSP....

HTH


----------



## ROMEYR32

Reflectology said:


> Hiya mate, the majority of Scholl Polishes work in exactly the same way, the abrasives have effectively done their work in the first 15-30 seconds, ultimately that depends on how much you have worked the polish and used the correct speed, all Scholl polishes are generally to be started at around a 1000rpm....
> 
> The only one that has an "official" longer working time if needed is A15+....this has the ability to fill as you work longer but also you can determine how well it finishes down as an LSP....
> 
> HTH


Hi mate, Im trying to find the RPM speeds for my DAS 6 in the forum search. I dont suppose you know what the numbers are equivalent to in RPM`s do you?


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## Scrim-1-

ROMEYR32 said:


> Hi mate, Im trying to find the RPM speeds for my DAS 6 in the forum search. I dont suppose you know what the numbers are equivalent to in RPM`s do you?


Sorry for the thanks I meant to press quote, Anyway, it should say in the manual you got with the machine.


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## ROMEYR32

Scrim-1- said:


> Sorry for the thanks I meant to press quote, Anyway, it should say in the manual you got with the machine.


Ahh, never thought :wall: I ll have a look:thumb:


----------



## Kokopelli

ROMEYR32 said:


> Hi mate, Im trying to find the RPM speeds for my DAS 6 in the forum search. I dont suppose you know what the numbers are equivalent to in RPM`s do you?


Rpm is for rotary though. You'll find opm (orbit per min) values for a DA. And they should and must be much higher.


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## Reflectology

As it oscillates you wont get an RPM but random orbits per minute....the megs one is around 2700 to 9000, not sure what the DAS is though....i would imagine if you are trying out the speed for Scholl I would start up at around speed 4 on the machine....


----------



## ROMEYR32

Reflectology said:


> As it oscillates you wont get an RPM but random orbits per minute....the megs one is around 2700 to 9000, not sure what the DAS is though....i would imagine if you are trying out the speed for Scholl I would start up at around speed 4 on the machine....


Thanks Russ, so there is no need to spread Scholl on the panel first? Just start it going around 4 and work it? Just trying to pimp my technique!

Dan


----------



## Dave KG

ROMEYR32 said:


> Hi mate, Im trying to find the RPM speeds for my DAS 6 in the forum search. I dont suppose you know what the numbers are equivalent to in RPM`s do you?


For the DAS-6, you wont find speeds in RPM as this is for rotaries and your DAS-6 is a DA... speed will be OPM, but there's no direct comparison between the two. Never tried Scholl on a DA, but I'm sure others have who would be able to advise on the speeds here.


----------



## ROMEYR32

Dave KG said:


> For the DAS-6, you wont find speeds in RPM as this is for rotaries and your DAS-6 is a DA... speed will be OPM, but there's no direct comparison between the two. Never tried Scholl on a DA, but I'm sure others have who would be able to advise on the speeds here.


Hi Dave, a `blonde ` moment by me, I`d posted before I realised this!:wall: I think i`m working it at the right speed just not sure if I need to dab the pad first on the panel!


----------



## Dave KG

ROMEYR32 said:


> Hi Dave, a `blonde ` moment by me, I`d posted before I realised this!:wall: I think i`m working it at the right speed just not sure if I need to dab the pad first on the panel!


Its alright, I'm equally blonde as I hadn't read anyone had replied to it by not clicking on the next page :lol::lol:


----------



## Reflectology

Reflectology said:


> Hiya mate, the majority of Scholl Polishes work in exactly the same way, *the abrasives have effectively done their work in the first 15-30 seconds, ultimately that depends on how much you have worked the polish and used the correct speed*, all Scholl polishes are generally to be started at around a 1000rpm....
> 
> The only one that has an "official" longer working time if needed is A15+....this has the ability to fill as you work longer but also you can determine how well it finishes down as an LSP....
> 
> HTH


Please make a note of the wording in bold....this is not a given time, its not a time that the set is completed, they have not given up the ghost after this time....Also may i point out that technique is important....for the first 30-40 seconds pressure should be applied, I apply quite strong pressure with slow arm movements and work in an 18in sq area, there or there abouts, the next 30-40 gradually reduce the pressure to a finish with the machine weight only.... once the pad is primed very little product is used as the pad should be holding sufficient amount, obviously dependent on defects a second set may be needed as with most makes of polish....what you can do is determine whether or not your combo will remove what you need to within a specified set amount....but again it will all come down to technique and a good understanding of the Scholl System....

May i add that this is my working experience of Scholl along with information and advice from Olivier, others may use the system differently and have good results, its all about how YOU work and also whether Scholl fits into YOUR technique....


----------



## MK1Campaign

Im that impressed with these Scholl polishes ive sold all my 3M and Menzerna stuff!


----------



## Kokopelli

Would somebody please confirm if A15+ has dedicated fillers for manual polishing? I may need a polish that can correct + fill for quick hand jobs. I have Megs D151 already but haven't noticed it filling much.


----------



## Reflectology

Kokopelli said:


> Would somebody please confirm if A15+ has dedicated fillers for manual polishing? I may need a polish that can correct + fill for quick hand jobs. I have Megs D151 already but haven't noticed it filling much.


it does have a slight filling ability and is perfect for quick jobs....but i wouldnt admit to using it on a hand job though:lol:


----------



## Kokopelli

Reflectology said:


> it does have a slight filling ability and is perfect for quick jobs....but i wouldnt admit to using it on a hand job though:lol:


Why? Isn't it oily enough? :lol:

I just wanted to give the car a lick with something quick.


----------



## BRUNBERG

Reflectology said:


> it does have a slight filling ability and is perfect for quick jobs....but i wouldnt admit to using it on a hand job though:lol:


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

A15 is a great product but ive yet to try it by hand


----------



## moosh

Do Scholl do smaller pads? I've got the spider sandwich pad but its about the same size as a sky dish, find it'd not much cope on tricky curves...


----------



## Kokopelli

I've got a couple of 85mm spots, and my bigger ones are something like 140 mm. I don't remember the exact sizes but they are smaller than my other pads. Bigger ones are black and white, smaller ones are red and white. Got them from SpaAutopia.


----------



## BRUNBERG

moosh said:


> Do Scholl do smaller pads? I've got the spider sandwich pad but its about the same size as a sky dish, find it'd not much cope on tricky curves...


Spider sandwich pads come in 3 sizes mate, spautopia stock them all


----------



## Reflectology

The spider sandwich pads are 160, 135 and 85....the 83mm are available in red and white and black and white, from what info i have had the only difference is the red and white one is the oem version, but yet to be clarified....it does work a little softer though, which is why i have many....


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

I love the red and white spot pad, perhaps the best overall pad I've ever used 

I only have three, I need to order a load more!


----------



## Scrim-1-

Would I get more cut using s17 with a White spider pad than I would using 3m yellow pad??


----------



## Beau Technique

Scrim-1- said:


> Would I get more cut using s17 with a White spider pad than I would using 3m yellow pad??


Scholl white sandwich?
If so then waaaaaay more cut as the white pad is almost alike to a heavy cut pad.


----------



## moosh

Reflectology said:


> The spider sandwich pads are 160, 135 and 85....the 83mm are available in red and white and black and white, from what info i have had the only difference is the red and white one is the oem version, but yet to be clarified....it does work a little softer though, which is why i have many....


So Russ from what your saying above i assume that to be the red is softer? I like the white but it does feel a bit to firm for my liking and using scholl with a 3m yellow pad for me is to messy and not economical to have to keep changing and washing pads so the red could be the answer.

I wasnt aware of the sizes so this is great news! :thumb:

I have my A3 to do and the upper swedge lines are tight with many defined edges so having the different sizes is a winner, off to find some


----------



## planktom

scholl himself has a >>polish & padcircle


----------



## Reflectology

moosh said:


> So Russ from what your saying above i assume that to be the red is softer? I like the white but it does feel a bit to firm for my liking and using scholl with a 3m yellow pad for me is to messy and not economical to have to keep changing and washing pads so the red could be the answer.
> 
> I wasnt aware of the sizes so this is great news! :thumb:
> 
> I have my A3 to do and the upper swedge lines are tight with many defined edges so having the different sizes is a winner, off to find some


The red and white sandwich pad is the same as the black and white one, they both in 85mm but only black and white available in larger sizes, its the foam that feels softer when working as i dont think the interface layer is as firm, but not by much....


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## BRUNBERG

I'm relatively confident with my technique using the spider sandwich pads, I will be getting some orange and blue Scholl pads with my next order. Going to swerve the black finishing pads as I've yet to see a good review on them.

I am overwhelmed by this product range. My Menz and 3M polishes have not had a look in since I bought Scholl, the correction speed defies logic having been used to 5-7 min sets using Menz


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## Deeper Detail

The black 'finishing' pads are great for correcting soft paint with S17+ :thumb:

Also hard paints for finishing down.... They are a top quality pad, but not for all paintwork :buffer:



BRUNBERG said:


> I'm relatively confident with my technique using the spider sandwich pads, I will be getting some orange and blue Scholl pads with my next order. Going to swerve the black finishing pads as I've yet to see a good review on them.
> 
> I am overwhelmed by this product range. My Menz and 3M polishes have not had a look in since I bought Scholl, the correction speed defies logic having been used to 5-7 min sets using Menz


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## GSchneider

Ordered some S17+ 

More I read the poorer I become! I need to spend more time detailing and less time reading! I might end up with money left one month lol


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## wookey

I've been using S17+ for a while now getting good results with both 3M yellow and Hex Logic green pads. I'm going to try out some of the Scholl pads as this thread has got me intrigued, especially when it comes to a single stage machine polish with S17+.

I'm just trying to work out what pad is most suited to a single stage polish, a few people have said about the orange pads, but some have refereed to the Orange sandwich pads, do they actually mean the Orange Spider pad? As the only sandwich pad I can see is the Spider sandwich pad which is either white/black, white/red depending on size.

The Orange pads are either foam or spider pads. How to the blue and purple foam pads finish down with S17+, as they are recommended on the Scholl website for S17+.

Thanks.


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## Flakey

Great thread, tagging it for reading at leisure. Thanks everybody.


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## Yellow Dave

Bumping an old but very useful thread, thanks to all those helpful inputs. I've been looking for this thread for a while.

I've currently got S3, S17 and S30 with the standard Scholl Purple, blue and orange foam pads, with a 3m rotary. Can I ask for peoples techniques on using the S17 / blue pad combo for single stage correction?

I'm getting great correction from it, but struggling to refine it enough and experiencing a few holograms. a quick set with S30 / orange pad is removing these and leaving a great gloss but if I can improve my technique with a single stage it'd be an unstoppable combo, I've even tried working it a little longer and spritzing the panel with QD to extend working time and has helped refine a little but not enough.

Typically using it on VAG paint that's hard-ish, but not the hardest I've experienced


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## Flakey

Scholl is not very popular here. I haven't used S17 but I have done plenty one step using S20 and a polishing pad (LCHT, Sonax etc.) and it finishes down well.


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## Yellow Dave

Have you changed your technique at all to get it to finish well? I've not used s20. 

I've used S30 and always have good results with that, but as I say just can't quite get S17 to finish well enough to not refine further.


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