# New Shampoo - AF Lather - Dislike



## slammed172 (Aug 17, 2008)

Well, after reading raving reviews and how great the suds and glide is, i'm not getting this.

Use a 4 gallon tub with a cap and a half of lather. It foamed up ok.

Used a sheepskin mitt and I tried the CG MF sponge and both reacted crap to the product. Just like washing the car with water - no glide and next to no suds.

Ok shine once dried but that's about it.

Was using Megs gold and Maxi suds before this and they are both hugely better and hugely cheaper.. What am I doing wrong ?

Also can some one tell me a decent pre-wash that isn't foam to use in a pump spray bottle ?


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

I think the new version has less suds and more cut for getting the grime i have still to use my old supplies but read a bit James had posted as been a few confused by this change


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

Most of the recommendations here for AF Lather is for the older unobtainable version, which was a darker yellow in colour, had a strong citrus aroma and produced a very nice lather and is not sold by AF.

The newer improved AF Lather is colourless, much weaker smelling, and doesn't produce a thick lather, but it rinses slightly better.

I bought the old version of AF Lather and really liked it, upon hearing of the newer tweaked version of AF Lather, I tried a sample and as a standalone product it is OK, but it doesn't compare as well to its older variant.

A version number on the label or a manufacturers date, could avoid this kind of confusion and disappointment in the future.


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

Can't the old version be reproduced or the current version be modified..


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

xJay1337 said:


> Can't the old version be reproduced or the current version be modified..


I think James had said it was adjusted to improve cleaning ability rather than more suds, but was a lot on about when first changed, but i'm sure if a market James would consider :thumb:


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

xJay1337 said:


> Can't the old version be reproduced or the current version be modified..


Buy Gwash....


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

Thing is I like the Autofinesse bottles and 99% of the products are super good!


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## slammed172 (Aug 17, 2008)

Well what a load of crap. The cut isn't any different to Megs TBH, a good lesson - stick with what you know. Reviews definitely need to be deleted then if the old one is un-obtainable.

What a waste of £12, really not impressed.


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## Derekh929 (Aug 28, 2011)

slammed172 said:


> Well what a load of crap. The cut isn't any different to Megs TBH, a good lesson - stick with what you know. Reviews definitely need to be deleted then if the old one is un-obtainable.
> 
> What a waste of £12, really not impressed.


If you read my post i said i had not tried the new version as had not used up my old version, but quoted what was said not what i said:thumb:


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

I guarantee you've used it wrong

I use around 30-40ml in a 20ltr bucket, how much is your 1 and a 1/2 capfuls in ml to your 18ltrs of water?




It is IMO one of the best out at the moment


A microfibre sponge has never felt good to me no matter what shampoo either.

Is it a megs lambswool wash mitt your using?


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

slammed172 said:


> Well, after reading raving reviews and how great the suds and glide is, i'm not getting this.
> 
> Use a 4 gallon tub with a cap and a half of lather. It foamed up ok.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear this, however if you read the product instruction it clearly states 2-4 capfuls (depending on your wash bucket size) id say you need a slight drop more than you used, if you actually take the cap off and look at it the caps not that deep and only holds a few mls of product (i have the exact amount on my desk and will post it tomorrow) this is not a "wash n wax" type shampoo, its a proper simple wash shampoo, designed to care for waxed and or sealed paint work, foam in a shampoo is fairly irrelevant to its effectiveness, the slickness should be there, but that slickness you get with "cheaper" shampoos tends to be due to "gloss enhancers".

James


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

slammed172 said:


> Well what a load of crap. The cut isn't any different to Megs TBH, a good lesson - stick with what you know. Reviews definitely need to be deleted then if the old one is un-obtainable.
> 
> What a waste of £12, really not impressed.


That's a bit harsh on deleting reviews of older products - as manufacturers constantly tweak their products to improve them, and suds don't make that much difference in the cleaning cut of a product, but granted it is a nice property to have, and I prefer it.

Peeps need to specify what versions of products they are recommending - but users may be recommending old versions of AF Lather not knowing that it has changed significantly, and others will be using the newer version of AF Lather, but more than likely bought it on the ringing endorsements of the older version.

I know Wolfs chemicals added a version number and manufacturing date to their improved versions of their Decon Gel and Optimum stuck a big bronze 'new formula' sticker on their new improved ONR solution.

This simple label change makes it easier for customers to be informed at the point of purchase. :thumb:


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## Mad Ad (Feb 7, 2011)

This is the new version, Some people do think the more suds the better the shampoo but its much better to have a lubricated shampoo with less suds making it easy to rinse IMO the newer version is a better shampoo easy to rinse leaves nothing behind to interfere with your LSP if it did dry leaves little to no streaks from the suds










blast with the pressure washer










the mitt










wheels










body


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

Nice pichers Mad Ad and great review. :thumb:

Correct dilution rates & choice of wash media can make all the difference with producing and holding suds on the car. 

The Dooka wash pad is great for suds :thumb:


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## slammed172 (Aug 17, 2008)

Junior Bear said:


> I guarantee you've used it wrong
> 
> I use around 30-40ml in a 20ltr bucket, how much is your 1 and a 1/2 capfuls in ml to your 18ltrs of water?
> 
> ...


Not sure on ML. The bucket is at a *guess* 4 gallons, but then the bucket is never full and it had a sponge and wash mitt.

TBH, I guaranteed I was using it wrong, thats why I asked what I was doing wrong.

Yes is the megs lambswool mitt, I tried that after having no success from the MF sponge.



James B said:


> Sorry to hear this, however if you read the product instruction it clearly states 2-4 capfuls (depending on your wash bucket size) id say you need a slight drop more than you used, if you actually take the cap off and look at it the caps not that deep and only holds a few mls of product (i have the exact amount on my desk and will post it tomorrow) this is not a "wash n wax" type shampoo, its a proper simple wash shampoo, designed to care for waxed and or sealed paint work, foam in a shampoo is fairly irrelevant to its effectiveness, the slickness should be there, but that slickness you get with "cheaper" shampoos tends to be due to "gloss enhancers".
> 
> James


Thanks for your reply James.

I do agree I need to use some more. We always hear horror stories how shampoo has stripped wax and as it was a new car I was washing with caution due to the wax applied. I just didn't experience the lubrication stated, I will up more concentration and report back.



Tips said:


> That's a bit harsh on deleting reviews of older products - as manufacturers constantly tweak their products to improve them, and suds don't make that much difference in the cleaning cut of a product, but granted it is a nice property to have, and I prefer it.
> 
> Peeps need to specify what versions of products they are recommending - but users may be recommending old versions of AF Lather not knowing that it has changed significantly, and others will be using the newer version of AF Lather, but more than likely bought it on the ringing endorsements of the older version.
> 
> ...


I dissagree on deleting reviews, from the sound of it, the product has completely changed. Thus, "suds are great", no longer applies as a review, does it ?

I agree with the latter on label change. I was completely miss-sold IMO, but will up my concentration to see if it's any better.



Mad Ad said:


> This is the new version, Some people do think the more suds the better the shampoo but its much better to have a lubricated shampoo with less suds making it easy to rinse IMO the newer version is a better shampoo easy to rinse leaves nothing behind to interfere with your LSP if it did dry leaves little to no streaks from the suds


Those pictures look great.

I bought this product from the reviews and mostly Russ from Midland Car Cares threads and how his clients cars looked like yours when being washed.

However I haven't got that same look, at all.

Again, I will up my concentration.


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## Mad Ad (Feb 7, 2011)

Tips said:


> Nice pichers Mad Ad and great review. :thumb:
> 
> Correct dilution rates & choice of wash media can make all the difference with producing and holding suds on the car.
> 
> The Dooka wash pad is great for suds :thumb:


Cheers Tips,

As you can see in the later pic's the suds get less and less leaving little to rinse off and leaving a streak free finish.


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## great gonzo (Nov 4, 2010)

If you think that has low foam you should see dodos Supernatrual shampoo!


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## Mad Ad (Feb 7, 2011)

slammed172 said:


> Not sure on ML. The bucket is at a *guess* 4 gallons, but then the bucket is never full and it had a sponge and wash mitt.
> 
> TBH, I guaranteed I was using it wrong, thats why I asked what I was doing wrong.
> 
> ...


Without sounding rude, if you know you had not used it correctly do you think its fair to openly blast a product for not performing as claimed when you have not used it as intended or instructed? Have a good play around bud everyone has different ways of working with a product some it works for some it doesn't.:thumb:


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## Mad Ad (Feb 7, 2011)

great gonzo said:


> If you think that has low foam you should see dodos Supernatrual shampoo!


Agree mate:thumb: should see zymol bathe


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## slammed172 (Aug 17, 2008)

Mad Ad said:


> Without sounding rude, if you know you had not used it correctly do you think its fair to openly blast a product for not performing as claimed when you have not used it as intended or instructed? Have a good play around bud everyone has different ways of working with a product some it works for some it doesn't.:thumb:


TBH, at the time I thought I'd used it correctly for the amount of water. Looking back after the replies from this thread it seems I could have upped my concentrate.

I wouldn't say i've blasted it.

I've found out there are two products (which in my eyes are different). Which I still stand by what I have said.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

This is a good thread, I personally love suds, and do find find they do help with the washing of the car to some degree, but I could be totally wrong.

Guess this shampoo, I am using :-


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

Fairy liquid 

Judging by your peasant bucket






Joking of course


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Turtle wax big orange Trip?


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

bigmc said:


> Turtle wax big orange Trip?


Your spot on Bigmc :thumb:, that was quick response from yourself, you know me too well now 

This is my last one now, raided the shelf back last year :lol:


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## Mean & clean (Aug 19, 2007)

Trip tdi said:


> This is a good thread, I personally love suds, and do find find they do help with the washing of the car to some degree, but I could be totally wrong.
> 
> Guess this shampoo, I am using :-
> 
> View attachment 25936


IIRC you like using TW Big Orange, I could be wrong? I'm guessing that's what's in the bucket?

I do agree that suds are an important factor in lubrication and helping lift dirt. I hate shampoos that lack suds.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

TW big orange isn't a bad cleaner I just don't feel the lubricity is upto the other stuff I use.

@mean & clean: The suds are absolutely nothing to do with the cleaning ability they are just a foaming agent added to the final product.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Mean & clean said:


> IIRC you like using TW Big Orange, I could be wrong? I'm guessing that's what's in the bucket?
> 
> I do agree that suds are an important factor in lubrication and helping lift dirt. I hate shampoos that lack suds.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


It's Turtlewax Bigorange in the bucket, just a simple plain shampoo that does clean the car well especially for it's price point.

I stocked up alot of these Bigoranges last year, and am on my last one now :lol: it's served me well especially for the price and the quantity of the unit, when I have a quarter left, I will be hunting for a new shampoo on the market for a change of scene :thumb:


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Must admit I've tried the new AF Lather & didn't get on with it.

Gone back to Wolf's white satin, which I'm more than happy with :thumb:

Seems to work with the werkstat acrylic kit which I have on both of our white cars

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=194133&highlight=Wolfs

:detailer:


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## Mean & clean (Aug 19, 2007)

bigmc said:


> TW big orange isn't a bad cleaner I just don't feel the lubricity is upto the other stuff I use.
> 
> @mean & clean: The suds are absolutely nothing to do with the cleaning ability they are just a foaming agent added to the final product.


Yeah I know they don't affect cleaning ability, but every shampoo I've used that doesn't foam well feels lacking in lube to me.

I know suds aren't everything but it's personal preference I guess 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

bigmc said:


> TW big orange isn't a bad cleaner I just don't feel the lubricity is upto the other stuff I use.
> 
> @mean & clean: The suds are absolutely nothing to do with the cleaning ability they are just a foaming agent added to the final product.


I agree with you there Bigmc, the Bigorange cleans well, especially for a product that is brought off the shelf, and is cheap as chips.

The lubrication is lacking from the aspects from the shampoo, you are correct here Bigmc, but the most lubricated shampoo I have used is Farecla Detox shampoo; I use this shampoo for a deeper clean and when the paint needs polishing and protecting, great for stripping previous wax layers and protection :thumb:


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Mean & clean said:


> IIRC you like using TW Big Orange, I could be wrong? I'm guessing that's what's in the bucket?
> 
> I do agree that suds are an important factor in lubrication and helping lift dirt. I hate shampoos that lack suds.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


They aren't at all, its a miss conception, (look at ONR for instance ) but if you like suds thats your preference.


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## Bristle Hound (May 31, 2009)

Trip tdi said:


> It's Turtlewax Bigorange in the bucket, just a simple plain shampoo that does clean the car well especially for it's price point.
> 
> I stocked up alot of these Bigoranges last year, and am on my last one now :lol: it's served me well especially for the price and the quantity of the unit, when I have a quarter left, I will be hunting for a new shampoo on the market for a change of scene :thumb:


What dilute ratio do you use on this mate? Don't want to do any 'stripping'! :doublesho 

Got some from B & Q in their 3 for 2 early on this year


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

James B, when my Big Orange finishes I will invest in a bottle of Lather, your Tough Coat has impressed me highly so would be keen to try your other range of products :thumb:

Sorry for hijacking your thread James :thumb:


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## Mean & clean (Aug 19, 2007)

Trip tdi said:


> I agree with you there Bigmc, the Bigorange cleans well, especially for a product that is brought off the shelf, and is cheap as chips.
> 
> The lubrication is lacking from the aspects from the shampoo, you are correct here Bigmc, but the most lubricated shampoo I have used is Farecla Detox shampoo; I use this shampoo for a deeper clean and when the paint needs polishing and protecting, great for stripping previous wax layers and protection :thumb:


That is what I don't like about big orange it lacks lube, and lacks suds when used in the dosage recommended IMO. I found it average in its cleaning abilities myself, my 5litre bottle is still almost full I've hardly used it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Bristle Hound said:


> What dilute ratio do you use on this mate? Don't want to do any 'stripping'! :doublesho
> 
> Got some from B & Q in their 3 for 2 early on this year


When I have not taken the meds on the day, 2.5 litres worth of Bigorange to a bucket full :thumb:

Only messing  just a quick gunk of shampoo then pressure fill to the top :thumb:


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## rinns (May 24, 2008)

I have used a few shampoos and have at lather , however the best I've used for a while IMO is simonez 99p from b&q. Very surprised with the cleaning and finish


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## D.Taylor R26 (Feb 5, 2012)

Just ordered some later from AF to see how well it performs compared to Gwash which hardly foams up at all but feels very slick with only a single cap full. Doesn't it say on CYC that it can be used 1:2000 with water? Was hoping a single cap of lather would be enough on a weekly wash?

Dave

EDIT: does state UP TO 1:2000 mix.

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/washi...oos/auto-finesse-lather-shampoo/prod_891.html


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

Depends on the bucket size really


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## D.Taylor R26 (Feb 5, 2012)

Junior Bear said:


> Depends on the bucket size really


Working off the dilution ratio that shoulnt make a difference.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

D.Taylor R26 said:


> Just ordered some later from AF to see how well it performs compared to Gwash which hardly foams up at all but feels very slick with only a single cap full. Doesn't it say on CYC that it can be used 1:2000 with water? Was hoping a single cap of lather would be enough on a weekly wash?
> 
> Dave
> 
> ...


They are the same product apparently, although one is much less value for money than the other due to the dilution ratios.


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

D.Taylor R26 said:


> Working off the dilution ratio that shoulnt make a difference.


Not when the guy says he hopes one cap will be enough


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

20ml of AF Lather (new version) in 10 litres of water gets me the optimum cleaning performance. 30-35ml should see you right with a 18-20 litre bucket.

For the record, 10-12ml of AF Lather (old version) got me the same results as the newer version.


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

Same for me too


What works for me too, is a few drops of onr in the bucket, helps with water hardness. Could mean less product needed too


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## D.Taylor R26 (Feb 5, 2012)

Junior Bear said:


> Not when the guy says he hopes one cap will be enough


Haha well that maybe but I doubt I'm alone in not measuring out 1:2000 every wash.

Didn't realise later had links to Gwash though. Though lather might have gone further Gwash for the money and size.

Maybe the problem could be solved if the cap on the bottle was enough for a standard bucket rather than the squirt system most use.

Dave


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## Brummie_Nige (Sep 5, 2011)

bigmc said:


> They are the same product apparently, although one is much less value for money than the other due to the dilution ratios.


Can anyone substantiate this? I've used both GWash and Lather and I think they feel different. That could be down to the dilution ratios.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

slammed172 said:


> Well what a load of crap. The cut isn't any different to Megs TBH, a good lesson - stick with what you know. Reviews definitely need to be deleted then if the old one is un-obtainable.
> 
> What a waste of £12, really not impressed.


I use dodo.j.b2bm.or ag,i got some lather for sweet fa.my mate thinks its no good.it worked for me but you gotta use ****eloads.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

Lather was updated to represent what we would class as a "detailers shampoo" its not full of gloss enhancers that cling to your wax or sealant and inhibit the water repellency of the surface, the newer version is a straight up cleaner, more free rinsing than before, better cleaning ability and thus less contact is needed with the paint surface maning it helps in maintaining a detailed finish , it also breaks down a wax surface at a much slower rate, you wont see people complaining of drop back with it when used with any of our waxes or sealants and that to me is what a shampoo is about, if you want something to make your car look marginally shinier and foam up in a bucket there are plenty of very cheap alternatives out there but in my personal opinion that has no real standing on the quality or effectiveness of a product. This is for what id class as "detailers" who want to take care of a "detailed" car.

It won't be for everyone and we totally get that, and might not suit everyones needs, but if you follow the instructions on the back of the bottle it will do its intended job, we'r confident of that.



bigmc said:


> They are the same product apparently, although one is much less value for money than the other due to the dilution ratios.


This is not the case, if it was the same surely the dilution ratios would be the same... No?

Don't believe all you ready on the internet :thumb:


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## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

I used the new version at the weekend, i used 2 decent glugs in a 20 litre bucket as I'm not a tight a**e

I filled the bucket with hot water from the tap and finished it off with a good hit of the jet wash.

I found it sudded up a treat and if anything these suds lasted a longer time in the bucket than the previous version.

As always, not everyone likes the same things, all i will say is it worked for me, was suddy, very lubricated and cleaned VERY easily, no need for multiple passes, which is the whole point of a safe wash!


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

at the end of the day even my missus tresseme shampoo would work on my S5.its so clean, as i said i like lather my mate never so he gave me it.i aint bothered if theres more or less suds as long as it cleans and dont affect the lsp,as ive said i buy dodo b2bm.or ag but ive tried loads therye all ok really apart from nxt.which aint no cop afaic.


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

Without sounding rude I find reading what you write a task at best.. Not so much the punctuation but please space out your sentance!!
On topic, I tried NXT and found it gave a very suddy wash but not much cut. However it left almost zero water marks. With Lather I still have a few but I can take care of those in the drying and/or finishing stages.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

xJay1337 said:


> Without sounding rude I find reading what you write a task at best.. Not so much the punctuation but please space out your sentance!!
> On topic, I tried NXT and found it gave a very suddy wash but not much cut. However it left almost zero water marks. With Lather I still have a few but I can take care of those in the drying and/or finishing stages.


Are you referring to me?.


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## xJay1337 (Jul 20, 2012)

Yes bud I found your last post especially very hard to read/comprehend.


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

Handbags


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Junior Bear said:


> Handbags


Lol.im at work what can i do?.i cant always be typist of the year.


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

Back on topic ladies! Anyways I found Lather (new version) to be surprisingly good. I used at the stated dilution in a 20L bucket (filled to approx 16L) and gave it a couple bursts with the PW to foam it up, nice suds, but more importantly I felt the solution was nice and slick. Not only that but the finish it left behind seemed 'true', not full of an artificial 'waxy plastic' look that some shampoo's give off. It also cleans very well too. This and 3M car soap has made me realize that you don't need a bucket of suds to make a good shampoo (if anything a bucket full of suds with hardly any water is far more dangerous than a bucket of hardly any suds with alot of water :thumb. Sure £12 may seem alot to some but I honestly feel that my £12 has seen me right and I don't feel robbed :thumb:

(Just to add I'm a new user to AF and not affiliated with them in anyway, before people start shouting 'fanboy' )


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

James B said:


> This is not the case, if it was the same surely the dilution ratios would be the same... No?
> 
> Don't believe all you ready on the internet :thumb:


Not necessarily, one could be made already diluted slightly hence resulting in a lower dilution ratio.


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## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

Dj.xray said:


> Fair enough..in response to your observations,which i accept,im a chipie(carpenter) building a 20m oak barn with 4x4 timbers doing compound cuts for rafters,on a festool chopsaw,with numbered timbers and no room for errors so obviously im on a mobile phone.not sittin at home looking at an ipad/macbook...by the way,did you mean sentence when you said sentance?.


I'd be livid ifi was paying you for that work and you were faffing on your phone. Especially with no room for error, but that's just me.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

bigmc said:


> Not necessarily, one could be made already diluted slightly hence resulting in a lower dilution ratio.


Have you actually owned and used both products ? they are not even alike.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

deleted


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

s.bailey said:


> I'd be livid ifi was paying you for that work and you were faffing on your phone. Especially with no room for error, but that's just me.


Its called pricework.we do have teabreaks,what builder dont?.


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## Auto Finesse (Jan 10, 2007)

bigmc said:


> deleted


Im all for people airing there views on the products good or bad, but only if its from there own perspective as a user, not just "what they hear"


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

Is Gwash not red and smells like cherry (so I've been told) whereas Lather is almost clear and smells faintly of citrus?


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## MK1Campaign (Mar 27, 2007)

No press is bad press. Going to buy some now and see what I think ;o)


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## D.Taylor R26 (Feb 5, 2012)

JakeWhite said:


> Is Gwash not red and smells like cherry (so I've been told) whereas Lather is almost clear and smells faintly of citrus?


Correct Jake. Both look and smell very different so I'd be surprised if they were related products.

Thanks to AF for clearing that up 

Dave


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## tzotzo (Nov 15, 2009)

I haven't tried new version but I wasn't impressed by the first one. 
Not a bad shampoo but a few equally good out there.!


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## Mick (Jan 23, 2010)

James B said:


> Im all for people airing there views on the products good or bad, but only if its from there own perspective as a user, not just "what they hear"


Ive never used Gwash, so cant comment.

I did however have lather sent by you for a review previously...and I found it to work well.. granted it doesnt lather up as much as is my own personal preference for a shampoo, but as you rightly say james, suds do little to nothing to aid cleaning.

I have only ever used one other product which I found to be remarkably similar to Lather in Look, feel and sudlessness (made up word there?), but it wasnt Gwash. but thats frankly irrelevant to this thread and still doesnt detract from the fact Lather is a viable media to wash a car with (although perhaps not the best suited to my own preference - as said, i prefer a soapier wash) :thumb:


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

Why do 90% of car wash shampoos have bubbles if it's pointless?


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## Mick (Jan 23, 2010)

Junior Bear said:


> Why do 90% of car wash shampoos have bubbles if it's pointless?


linky (this is relevant to hair shampoo, not sure how well the actual chemicals translate to car shampoo, but the theory is the same) :thumb:

The lather is created by an additional foaming agent, and not the detergent which does the cleaning, apparently


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## Tips (Mar 27, 2011)

Sodium Laureth Sulphate is the foaming/cleaning agent found in all shampoos and shower gels to toothpastes and mouthwashes, yum. :thumb:


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

So why do they put it in there if its not necessary?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Because people are lured into believing that suds = quality.


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## bero1306 (Jan 24, 2011)

Like me. I love suds, MMMMMMMMM


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

Suds are reassuring lol


Snow foam is definitely a gimmick then


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

Junior Bear said:


> Suds are reassuring lol
> 
> Snow foam is definitely a gimmick then


I dont know about a gimmick,but i dont find it neccesary.


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## tzotzo (Nov 15, 2009)

bigmc said:


> Because people are lured into believing that suds = quality.


there is a huge sudsing conspiracy behind all cleaning chemicals.

All cleaning products, such as car shampoos, APC's, snow foam, wheel cleaners,
foam or produce suds when used.

If people get along with all these products (apparently with suds) why do we have to prove that suds are bad and unworthy.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

They dont do anything though, its pyschlogical - you assume suds equal cleaning ability. Vinegar doesn't sud but is a fantastic cleaner, as is ipa.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Can I ask a question here, I'm a bit confused, snow foaming produces a heavy amount of foam, I believe the foam will break down the dirt, with out foam will the snow foam be effective.

I have used Autoglym Shampoo in the past, this shampoo dos not foam heavily but cleans well, to me a shampoo full of foam reassures me the shampoo is up for the job to clean well, with out foam it just does not feel right to me, I guess it' what the user prefers.

Talking about a snow foam solution, which is the best out there, plus which is the best shampoo out there, I know everyone has different experiences from products, but would be keen to know.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Trip the foam is holding the surfactants against the bodywork.


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## Trip tdi (Sep 3, 2008)

Thanks Bigmc :thumb: this is made a lot more sense to myself, it's a learning curve to learn the chemistry of products and how they activate, thanks :thumb:


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## slammed172 (Aug 17, 2008)

Just to update this already huge thread, I used 4 generous caps (overfilling) and it was still pretty poor, so yeah, I go back to what I have said all along. Wish I'd known there were two types, not impressed at all.

On the other hand I used AF tough coat today and it is phenomenal. Like serious, ease of application, I did a whole civic and used about 4mm of a 250ml bottle, it beads amazingly after one coat. Definitely one of my favourite detailing products, let's just hope it's durability is as good as they say it is.

The above review is just to show I'm not AF bashing !


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

I like Autosmart Shampoo myself - Autowash, basic shampoo nice and foamy etc and cleans great. Duet - like putting a bar of soap in a bath - no foam, and cleans really well. Also I find snowfoam a waste of money and mess. VP Prewash in a pump sprayer job done :thumb:


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## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

Just used the new formula again today and sorry but I have to say, whoever says they can't get on with this is either using too little or does not have a power washer to foam it up. I got so many thick suds at the top of my 20l bucket I had to reach down to after my wrist to get to the water. Just my opinion mind. Personally I love it.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

You shouldn't need a powerwasher to foam it up though....


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

I find it foams up well enough with a blast from a normal hose. Maybe I'm a lucky one but this shampoo has been great for me so far.


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## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

bigmc said:


> You shouldn't need a powerwasher to foam it up though....


According to you? Or is that a fact for high lube low foaming shampoos?


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

Does it say you need it on the back! If it does it's just another reason why it's a big failure. Why buy a low foam shampoo then try to foam it up??
You don't need a powerwasher to use AG BSC which is high lube low foam!


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## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

bigmc said:


> Does it say you need it on the back! If it does it's just another reason why it's a big failure. Why buy a low foam shampoo then try to foam it up??
> You don't need a powerwasher to use AG BSC which is high lube low foam!


I found BSC needed a hope and a prayer to foam up, hated it so just goes to show each to their own.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

It's not designed to foam, foam is for show, nothing more nothing less.


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## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

Ok. Bored now. You know everything. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.........yawn.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

s.bailey said:


> Ok. Bored now. You know everything. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.........yawn.


Ah well I guess it's true that you can't teach pork....


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## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

bigmc said:


> Ah well I guess it's true that you can't teach pork....


Haha yeah that's right haha yeah funny haha.......douche.

You're the **** not allowing anyone else an opinion.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

You're allowed an opinion just don't be a **** when you get new to you information!


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## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

Nothing you've said is new. Your attitude is also not new. People like you are the reason less and less people post....so thanks. 

Oh and thanks for allowing me an opinion. See what I mean!!!


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

If you don't like it don't use it
Lol

If you do, then carry on using it


There is no perfect product for everybody in this industry


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## slammed172 (Aug 17, 2008)

I won't don't worry.


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

Not worried at all


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## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

Junior Bear said:


> Not worried at all


Teehee


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

I like suds bubbles and foam!

No suds shampoo can **** off imo


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

Keep it civil guys, everyone has an opinion, no need to ***** about it like children


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

Bathtime isn't fun without bubbles........


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

JakeWhite said:


> Bathtime isn't fun without bubbles........


Definitely not if a bar of soap falls into it :lol:


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## inkey (Jan 22, 2010)

I have not used af lather so cant comment about it. 

With regards to suds and foam. Imo the foam in snow foam is to allow more dwell time on the paint. Therefor it has a purpose.

A car shampoo does not need the dwell time snowfoam needs. 

After reading the posts in this thread i will be buying af lather to try.


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

RDB85 said:


> Keep it civil guys, everyone has an opinion, no need to ***** about it like children


Hope you didn't take offence, I felt I needed to let that out :thumb:

It was all getting a little technical and boring and miles away from the OPs original issue.


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## moosh (May 8, 2011)

inkey said:


> I have not used af lather so cant comment about it.
> 
> With regards to suds and foam. Imo the foam in snow foam is to allow more dwell time on the paint. Therefor it has a purpose.
> 
> ...


its worth a try, last a long time and its a great shampoo new or old edition (i have them both)


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## Sneak Attack (Mar 1, 2012)

bigmc said:


> Does it say you need it on the back! If it does it's just another reason why it's a big failure. Why buy a low foam shampoo then try to foam it up??
> You don't need a powerwasher to use AG BSC which is high lube low foam!


How is it a 'big failure' exactly?

If you want foam, then blast it up. If you don't (and in my view, there's no need to have foam in a shampoo) then just let it work. And it does work. It's a shampoo: designed to clean the paint surface, lifting grime and lubricating the surface to aid grime removal.

It does this.

It also does this at a good dilution ratio and a low price.

In my book, that makes it a 'big success'.


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## bigmc (Mar 22, 2010)

If you want foam why not buy one that is foaming agent heavy instead of blasting up a low foam shampoo that's designed not to foam?


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## Sneak Attack (Mar 1, 2012)

bigmc said:


> If you want foam why not buy one that is foaming agent heavy instead of blasting up a low foam shampoo that's designed not to foam?


I don't want a high foam shampoo.

Even if I did, and bought one which didn't foam, it still wouldn't be a 'big failure'.

It would, in fact, be my mistake for buying the wrong product.

As it happens, Lather suits my requirements extremely well. And if, one day, for some inexplicable reason, I want it to have a lot of foam, I can blast it and make it foamy.


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

RDB85 said:


> Definitely not if a bar of soap falls into it :lol:


Woahh there! I was talking about baths, not prison showers! :lol::tumbleweed:


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## RDB85 (Dec 28, 2011)

moosh said:


> Hope you didn't take offence, I felt I needed to let that out :thumb:
> 
> It was all getting a little technical and boring and miles away from the OPs original issue.


No offence taken, It did seem to stray off from the original issue. I hope the OP is able to make sense of it all, personally I have not tried the product as I like both of my AutoSmart shampoo's :thumb:


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## D.Taylor R26 (Feb 5, 2012)

Does anyone else use luke warm water to fill there wash buckets? Always take mine from the inside tap and find this helps lift the dirt. 

Always ends up a mess when I try filling the bucket with the pressure washer! 

Dave


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## mattyslk (Jul 28, 2012)

I use this shampoo, and personally wouldn't use another.

But for a counter argument.. One thats substantiated from the design phase of product is from it's name; you can't possibly tell people not to expect foam when the product's called Lather!!!

lath·er (lr)
n.
1. A foam formed by soap or detergent agitated in water, as in washing or shaving.
2. Froth formed by profuse sweating, as on a horse.
3. Informal A condition of anxious or heated discomposure; agitation

Perhaps it's ironic that this thread has become a heated discomposure.


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

thats bang on.very good.


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## Junior Bear (Sep 2, 2008)

D.Taylor R26 said:


> Always ends up a mess when I try filling the bucket with the pressure washer!
> 
> Dave


Fill the bucket with normal tap water, then when it's nearly full dip the pressure washer into the bucket near the bottom and hold the trigger on a few seconds


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## Brummie_Nige (Sep 5, 2011)

JakeWhite said:


> Bathtime isn't fun without bubbles........


I know for a *FACT* that AF Lather is the same product as Matey:










Only joking


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## D.Taylor R26 (Feb 5, 2012)

Junior Bear said:


> Fill the bucket with normal tap water, then when it's nearly full dip the pressure washer into the bucket near the bottom and hold the trigger on a few seconds


Was only jesting mate 

Just find warmer water works better in the same way a hot water pressure washer removes more grime when prewashing.


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## slammed172 (Aug 17, 2008)

mattyslk said:


> I use this shampoo, and personally wouldn't use another.
> 
> But for a counter argument.. One thats substantiated from the design phase of product is from it's name; you can't possibly tell people not to expect foam when the product's called Lather!!!
> 
> ...


Actual post of the thread; Classic.


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## JakeWhite (Oct 14, 2011)

Brummie_Nige said:


> I know for a *FACT* that AF Lather is the same product as Matey:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I loved this stuff when I was a kid! I would buy car shampoo if it came in bottles like this on principle alone! Companies are always thinking of ways of making packaging eye catching and trendy on the shelves, why not make it look like a pirate called matey??!!! :lol::lol:


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## Lupostef (Nov 20, 2011)

Really, this thread still going?

BIG YAWN .... 

I can't see why people are getting so hung up on the new/old thing, a few minor changes in dilution ratio's. I didn't even realise this until I saw a similar thread and failed to notice any lack of cleaning ability :lol: Yet again takes one person to say something and the rest follow along spouting forth the latest goss, wonder if the majority have even used it? :lol:


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