# Look across the fence - to Germany...



## threelitre (Aug 9, 2006)

After reading the threads about the drains, I thought it might be interesting to read how this is handled elsewhere....

So with me living in Germany I'll show you the implications of the world's cleanest hobby.

Depending on where you live, the drains in the roads are either connected with the sewer or guided separatly. When separated it is most likely that all run-off water from the roads is ending up in rivers untreated - and this is the more common situation. 
As with all kinds off things you'd expect legal regulations here in Germany. Despite there being no explicit law about washing cars, most towns and communities have their local regulations.

Except for a few places washing a car is simply forbidden. Some towns, where the drains all run through the treatment plant, might still allow cars being washed on the road - but I am not aware of such a place.

This does not mean that it's forbidden to ever clean the car. Apart from the obvious choice of car wash places, which have to fulfil many strict rules regarding contamination, in most places it is allowed if the place used fulfils 3 conditions: 
1) It is sealed in a watertight way (tarmac, concrete or watertight paving)
2) the collected run-off fluids need to be collected into a treated sewer
3) there has to be an oil separator before the water is allowed to be fed into the sewer.

You'll find that these regulations pretty much meet the findings from the two 'storm drain' threads.

But even if washing the car on a legal place, the choice of products has an influence - though not immediatly visible to everyone. Some products will be very difficult to effectively remove from the waste water in the treatment plant - i.e. most mineral oil based products. Too large amounts can literally poison the plant, as these all feature a biological step, where part of the contamination is removed through the use of microbes! Other products, mainly those classed as biodegradeable, will even help to feed the microbes... Washing cars will usually only create a very small fraction of all waste water, so this issue is surely not a big one, but one to consider when it comes to the general use of cleaning agents around the house, as it affects the cost needed to run the treatment plant to a degree.

Apart from unneeded waste of fresh water, cost is another thing. All of Germany hangs on water meters since ever (probably). So that i.e. weekly car washes can will have an effect on the water bill, if rinsing is done using 100s of litres of water. So I have developed a routine where I'll wash the upper surfaces of a normally sized car using about 30-40 litres of water in total. But then, I'm still on the single bucket method, just taking a lot of care. You'll probably not want to imagine that it can happen that my daily driver does not see a wash within 6 months - but it saves a lot of water and products  

Regards,

Alexander


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Alexander - thanks for the insight :thumb:

I have read about some products that casue problems with oil separators, so its interesting you bring it up.

Have you tried a rinseless product like ONR? I can do my cars in about 15L of water completely, and I am still using a little more than I need at times. Being on a water meter here as well, like an increasing number of people in the UK, I collect rainwater, and that is completely clean and suitable for use in car washing. Its also a lot softer than my tap water so doesnt really leave any water spotting at all if just left on the car 

I hope we dont end up in the same situation as Germany in the future


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## Matthijs (Aug 13, 2008)

My parents have plans for moving to Germany. We live about 15 kilometers from the Dutch-German border now and we are planning to move to a town called Twist, like 1 kilometer from the border. Detailing cars will be a huge problem if we'll ever move there, because I simply can't wash the cars before polishing them because it's illegal on the street. And I don't want to go to an automatic car wash!
What would you guys do in my situation? I really hope someone has a good idea


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## reparebrise (Jan 19, 2009)

I am sure you can use a waterless wash product in those situations, because it does not get a drop of water on the ground, no water usage, no run off.


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## threelitre (Aug 9, 2006)

Obviously waterless washing is fine. Alternatively you can go and wash the car at one of the washing places - you could bring your own bucket, sponge and brushes and use the pressure washer and water supply there. If you happen to have someone near who owns a yard suitably equipped - perfect.

Or - just wash the car and hope no neighbours take offence in it... 

Personally I have not yet tried ONR or such, but it's intriguing. In particular as I live in an area of medium hard water, which will leave quite nasty stains when left to dry. I thought about rain water too, not only for cars but also to use in the garden.

Regards,

Alexander


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## Matthijs (Aug 13, 2008)

So it's legal to wash the car in you garden even if you don't have special flooring etc?


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## threelitre (Aug 9, 2006)

No, in most places not and surely not if you use any chemicals...

Alexander


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## Barchettaman (Dec 16, 2007)

I go to the local garage (which has a jetwash), armed with 10-15 litres of hot water in bottles, a couple of buckets, shampoo and a washmitt.
Quick prewash - €1 on the jetwash to loosen things up, back out of the washbay (still on the forecourt), 2BM wash, back in for a rinse, job done.


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

^^ that seems like a good plan. 

Are there plenty of garages with washbays that you can use?


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## threelitre (Aug 9, 2006)

Yes, there are - usually very crowded on sunny saturdays...

Alexander


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## Barchettaman (Dec 16, 2007)

Fortunately my work schedule means I can get access outside of busy times.

It´s all about compromise, cleaning the car over here. Now, that doesn´t sit too well with the whole detailing ethos, which seems to me about using the best, bespoke porducts and processes to get the ultimate result. But I can live with that.

Cheers
Simon


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## chrisfr (May 25, 2008)

Only one such place in my city (where I live on weekends). And guess what - it's damaged for one or two months now. Sucks. :/

threelitre: Where do you wash your car in Aachen? Maybe I should buy two more grit guard buckets and wash my car instead of learning.


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## threelitre (Aug 9, 2006)

I have to confess that I have been using own grounds at times - but run-off will land in the proper sewer. I would not do engine cleaning or other serious stuff there, so that I reckon the result is not far off what I would expect from household drains. But in most cases it's a classic, spending most time in the garage - so all the dirt to take care of is some dust from being parked there. The daily driver gets cleaned about 2 or 3 times a year (I know, not a well known practice over here), eventually even in a car wash, but only those using soft foam. 

But in the end I am quite intrigued by using ONR or waterless methods, in particular as I could use these indoors during winter.

Regards,

Alexander


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