# Optimum No Rinse convert



## Fiesta2012

Hi, after many years doing the tradition 2 bucket method,getting tonnes of equipment out ie pressure washer, snow foam cannon etc I got a little fed up of the time it was taking me. I'd watched many videos on rinseless wash but always been sceptical, until I saw the Garry Dean method and thought that it made sense as no dirty mitt was goin back in your wash water. So I bit the bullet and bought some ONR. I diluted a stronger mix for my pump sprayer and used 2 caps of the 32oz bottle in 7.5 litres of water. In that I soaked 8 ragmaster Eagle Edgeless towels. I sprayed 1 panel at a time starting on roof with the pump sprayer mix,left to dwell a minute or so then using a 4 folded towel which I'd squeezed slightly did very light passes over the panel checking after each pass for dirt and flipping and refolding appropriately. After I'd cleaned each panel i dried using a slightly damp towel with ONR on then buffed with a dry one. After I'd completed whole car I buffed with detail spray but finish was so good and smear free this could have been left out. To say I'm impressed with ONR and the rinseless wash is an understatement, so much time is saved and you aren't chasing water in door shuts and from other places for ages. I don't know if it was my imagination but the car looked cleaner than it did during a traditional wash also i couldnt see any marring or swirls under my pen torch. So if your on the fence whether to try it out go for it. I'm glad I did. Here's a couple of pics.


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## Fiesta2012

Ps the hose was used on my 'pain in the **** to clean wheels' and to water the flowers 
lol


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## DrEskimo

I gave waterless washing a go when I used to live in a flat (on my GF car I might add...!) and while I certainly saw the benefits of it,the one bit where it fell short for me is for the parts which had stubborn dirt or dead bugs, particularly on the front bumpers. I also didn't feel I could get into all the small gaps and crevices to give it the full clean I want and ensure all the details were to a good standard. Something about watching all the water and foam seep into every part of the car that gives you the confidence of removing every last bit of dirt that I couldn't recreate with waterless washing...

Because of this I have subsequently abandoned the idea for using it on my own car, but certainly don't think it merits the hysteria from detailing enthusiasts. But then again that could be said for a lot of things...


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## Naddy37

Use it quite a lot on the E300 chauffeur work horse. Tempted to give the wax version a try though.


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## Guest

DrEskimo said:


> I gave waterless washing a go when I used to live in a flat (on my GF car I might add...!) and while I certainly saw the benefits of it,the one bit where it fell short for me is for the parts which had stubborn dirt or dead bugs, particularly on the front bumpers. I also didn't feel I could get into all the small gaps and crevices to give it the full clean I want and ensure all the details were to a good standard. Something about watching all the water and foam seep into every part of the car that gives you the confidence of removing every last bit of dirt that I couldn't recreate with waterless washing...
> 
> Because of this I have subsequently abandoned the idea for using it on my own car, but certainly don't think it merits the hysteria from detailing enthusiasts. But then again that could be said for a lot of things...


I've never been quite convinced about waterless washes for the same reasons as you. Ideal if you need a QD on steroids, but not for a proper wash.
However as ONR is a rinse less wash, and not a waterless wash, it is quite a different product imho. It is, quite frankly, excellent. Has so many uses and would easily cope with the tasks you list above plus many more.


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## Scotty B

I've been using ONR for almost 8 years now and love it. Works best if the car is protected.


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## matt_r

What ratio did you use for the pre-spray?


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## A&J

matt_r said:


> What ratio did you use for the pre-spray?


15ml per 1l should do it.


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## matt_r

A&J said:


> 15ml per 1l should do it.


Cheers for that mate


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## Cy-Zuki

Had it for a while now and was scared to start using it. But living in a dry and dusty Country I could either get up at dawn and wash conventionally or wait for the sun to go then the dew point kicked in.

Now with ONR I can wash the car in the garage out of the sun - use less water and save time as well. I think in the winter I may revert to 2BW occasionally.


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## james_death

Nicely done...:thumb: and can be a god send in warm weather and even winter.


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## Kenhom

Looks good will have to try this.


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## JB052

I use ONR quite frequently, bodywork is fine but I find cleaning the wheels a bit more difficult.


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## tosh

Fiesta2012 said:


> Ps the hose was used on my 'pain in the **** to clean wheels' and to water the flowers
> lol


If you've still got clean ONR in the bucket, use that to fill a 2L or 5L pump sprayer (add some ONR if required) and then clean your wheels with that.

I use about 1L of water/ONR per wheel, and I wash normally with Wheel Woolies and wheel cleaner (Sonax, HDD, Simoniz, whatever) - yes it takes a bit longer rinsing the wheel, and I finish with a work MF to dry up.

If I had a tap near the car, I would use a 10L watering can instead - I can do about 3 wheels before refilling - goes to show how much water you really don't need.

If it's not working out, try and find a nice pump sprayer with a bit of force and a nice adjustable spray - I'm using a 2L Kwazar at the moment, but looking at the 5L Spear and Jackson at the moment to save a bit of time refilling.


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## Cy-Zuki

Just am update to me earlier post, Still using ONR wash/wax and FINALLY becoming confident that it does NOT cause swirls. However, I confess I prefer the Gary Dean idea of clean cloths to prevent grit carry over and I do the wheels first outside the garage with a prespray to each wheel followed by a squirt of the hose to the wheel and wheel arch. This leaves the crud outside and then do the car finishing with the wheels in the normal ONR method.

As said, it has taken months before I trust ONR and will revert to 2bm in winter. Lastly, the downside is you need to go and wash all your dirty cloths on a half load after washing so there is water "wasted" then.

Geoff


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## DJBAILEY

Kind of defeats the purpose of saving water when you're using 10-15 MF towels every wash that will need to laundered. Just using it elsewhere.


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## A&J

DJBAILEY said:


> Kind of defeats the purpose of saving water when you're using 10-15 MF towels every wash that will need to laundered. Just using it elsewhere.


Thats the part I dont like about the Garry Dean method.


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## chongo

A&J said:


> Thats the part I dont like about the Garry Dean method.


Does anyone know WHY ONR is used instead of the normal 2bw I do :thumb: but it would be interesting to here your thoughts WHY it's used.

This is the only stuff I use in the warmer conditions if the cars have light dirt to remove, but I would not use ONR at all if I thought they were to dirty, then I would use the 2bw. So it does have a purpose, but in the right conditions and environment:wave:

And why Gary Dean uses 10-15 MF towels doing a rinseless wash, is madness.


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## A&J

chongo said:


> Does anyone know WHY ONR is used instead of the normal 2bw I do :thumb: but it would be interesting to here your thoughts WHY it's used.


Dont know what you are hinting at. Can you be a bit more specific?

I know Cy-zuki is from Cyprus or Greece so I dont expect his car gets overly dirty so ONR should be perfect for what he needs.



chongo said:


> This is the only stuff I use in the warmer conditions if the cars have light dirt to remove, but I would not use ONR at all if I thought they were to dirty, then I would use the 2bw. So it does have a purpose, but in the right conditions and environment:wave:
> 
> And why Gary Dean uses 10-15 MF towels doing a rinseless wash, is madness.


I dont know if there is a bit of confusion but ONR is a rinseless wash meant to be used in a bucket in a 1:256 mix ratio. I personally use the 2bm and a pre-spray mix of ONR in a 1:32 mix ratio. My cars are parked outside 24/7 so they do get dirty and I have used ONR to clean real dirt...it still performed. I even used it over winter time. I know ONR can be used with only one bucket but if you see how dirty my rinse bucket is at the end you too would use the 2bm. I rather be safe than sorry, and I have used ONR and other rinseless washes so much now that I know where the limitations are.

OK for cleaning light dust than it could be done the waterless way, but OPT have a designated waterless wash called opti-clean that is more lubricated and has more polimers to clean thus it is safer than ONR.

I tried the Garry Dean wash method once!!! Didnt like it. The reason was I had to wash the towels afterwards. Towels are expensive and I dont trust them being completely clean even after machine wash. I dont trust microfiber mitts either. That is why I use a sponge for rinseless washes.


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## Brian1612

Where is best to order this cheaply? Thought I had got it for £17 delivered with 2 free MF on ebay but they cancelled my order... :\


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## Hereisphilly

Brian1612 said:


> Where is best to order this cheaply? Thought I had got it for £17 delivered with 2 free MF on ebay but they cancelled my order... :\


Not alot of places sell it I've found

I got my 32oz from cyc but it's still £17 and then delivery on top

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Brian1612

Best I have found also, cheers Phil.


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## neilmcl

Anyone use ONR in with with the shampoo when washing normally using the 2bm? I've heard it makes the shampoo even more slicker or is this just a waste of product?


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## A&J

neilmcl said:


> Anyone use ONR in with with the shampoo when washing normally using the 2bm? I've heard it makes the shampoo even more slicker or is this just a waste of product?


Its not a myth...it does make washing better & easyer with ONR in your wash solution :thumb:


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## Cy-Zuki

:lol: A&J - the clue to where I live is in the name and in the Avatar :thumb:

I totally agree that washing the cloths is a little counter productive. But with careful use I use 6 on the body and one old one at the end on the wheels. Then something for drying as we all must.

Even when using the 2BM in winter I wash the drying towels and noodle type mits as I like to keep them clean.

Anyway, the whole reason for me using ONR was to enable me to wash the car out of the blistering sun. I know ONR is supposed to be OK in strong sun, but I just cannot bring myself to wash a car in our sun.

Geoff


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## firehorse

A&J said:


> I rather be safe than sorry, and I have used ONR and other rinseless washes so much now that I know where the limitations are.
> 
> OK for cleaning light dust than it could be done the waterless way, but OPT have a designated waterless wash called opti-clean that is more lubricated and has more polimers to clean thus it is safer than ONR.
> 
> I tried the Garry Dean wash method once!!! Didnt like it. The reason was I had to wash the towels afterwards. Towels are expensive and I dont trust them being completely clean even after machine wash. I dont trust microfiber mitts either. That is why I use a sponge for rinseless washes.


Where are the limitations?

Which sponge do you use for the rinseless wash?

Thanks


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## Brian1612

neilmcl said:


> Anyone use ONR in with with the shampoo when washing normally using the 2bm? I've heard it makes the shampoo even more slicker or is this just a waste of product?


That is exactly my reason for getting some. That and as a waterless wash type QD at carshows.


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## A&J

Cy-Zuki said:


> :lol: A&J - the clue to where I live is in the name and in the Avatar :thumb:


I wondered where I got the clue from...It must have slipped in subconscious :thumb:



Cy-Zuki said:


> I totally agree that washing the cloths is a little counter productive. But with careful use I use 6 on the body and one old one at the end on the wheels. Then something for drying as we all must.
> 
> Even when using the 2BM in winter I wash the drying towels and noodle type mits as I like to keep them clean.


Thats why I use a sponge...coz I don't have to clean it all the time.



Cy-Zuki said:


> Anyway, the whole reason for me using ONR was to enable me to wash the car out of the blistering sun. I know ONR is supposed to be OK in strong sun, but I just cannot bring myself to wash a car in our sun.
> Geoff


If you work in small sections and use a QD afterwards its fine...but yeah if you have a luxury of a garage then definitely wash inside.



firehorse said:


> Where are the limitations?
> Which sponge do you use for the rinseless wash?


The limit is the same as with a normal soapy shampoo...Ill say it like this...if you feel it aint clean enough to use a normal shampoo then it aint clean enough to use ONR...If you feel it needs a pre wash like TFR of snow foam or PW rinse than do that first just to be sure. ONR is a shampoo substitute and not a pre wash substitute.

You can still clean dirty cars but for heavy dirt buildup, sand and mud you'll have to pre wash or power rinse first before you tackle it with ONR or any other rinseless shampoo.

The sponge is the same as this one...I just get it elsewhere
http://www.seriousperformance.co.uk/Products,70,toView_999.html


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## lowejackson

chongo said:


> Does anyone know WHY ONR is used instead of the normal 2bw I do :thumb: but it would be interesting to here your thoughts WHY it's used....


Because 2 buckets are not required or do you mean something else?


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## chongo

lowejackson said:


> Because 2 buckets are not required or do you mean something else?


:thumb:

And it's really a seasonal product for cleaning of light dirt and dust (summer)
Used for cleaning classic cars when you don't want a lot of excess water penetrating the cars seals and body. But it does have a lot of other jobs that I think are bested suited for, drying aid, clay lube, QD spray, engine detailing, and so on.

See I use it only on the classics, but I would never use it on my own car or someone's else's car. You are going to cause some swirling when doing a normal 2bw, especially on soft black paint, but using ONR as a rinseless wash, then you are going to cause more damage:wall: so if you can't do a 2bw because you live in a area were it is not possible to use a hose, then what's wrong in getting a bucket or two with lids on, and take your vehicle to a PW and cleaning it there.

I know a lot of people are going to disagree what I have said, but waterless and rinseless washes are bad for the paint if there is more dirt than dust and light summer dirt.:wave:


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## lowejackson

chongo said:


> :thumb:
> 
> And it's really a seasonal product for cleaning of light dirt and dust (summer)
> Used for cleaning classic cars when you don't want a lot of excess water penetrating the cars seals and body. But it does have a lot of other jobs that I think are bested suited for, drying aid, clay lube, QD spray, engine detailing, and so on.
> 
> See I use it only on the classics, but I would never use it on my own car or someone's else's car. You are going to cause some swirling when doing a normal 2bw, especially on soft black paint, but using ONR as a rinseless wash, then you are going to cause more damage:wall: so if you can't do a 2bw because you live in a area were it is not possible to use a hose, then what's wrong in getting a bucket or two with lids on, and take your vehicle to a PW and cleaning it there.
> 
> I know a lot of people are going to disagree what I have said, but waterless and rinseless washes are bad for the paint if there is more dirt than dust and light summer dirt.:wave:


Perhaps unsurprisingly I do fundamentally disagree with the assertion ONR will damage paint. However, it is more important to find and use products which suits you and if your happy to use a product only during the summer then so be it. We are after all talking about cleaning cars not solving the worlds problems


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## A&J

chongo said:


> See I use it only on the classics, but I would never use it on my own car or someone's else's car. You are going to cause some swirling when doing a normal 2bw, especially on soft black paint, but using ONR as a rinseless wash, then you are going to cause more damage:wall: so if you can't do a 2bw because you live in a area were it is not possible to use a hose, then what's wrong in getting a bucket or two with lids on, and take your vehicle to a PW and cleaning it there.


I still dont understand your logic why ONR would damage paint more than any other shampoo 

I understand black paint and soft paint are more prone to scratching and a lot of it you can prevent with proper wash & dry technique but its gonna show swirls eventually no matter what shampoo you use.

No one said that because you use ONR instead of your normal shampoo that you cant PW it and snow foam the car first if you believe its too dirty.
You asses the condition of the paint and the level of dirt and you react accordingly...simple as that.

Lowejackson said not long ago that stuck in my brain. He said "if its too dirty to use your normal shampoo its too dirty to use ONR". If you feel you have to pre wash the car first than do it...no detailing police will chase you if you use snow foam and then ONR or whatever other shampoo or procedure you like.

Heck...There is even a DW user here that only snow foams the car, PW it and then uses QD to dry it. No shampoo whatsoever. Not what I would do but everyone has there way of doing things.


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## sm81

It really doesn't help that we haven't seen any videos when someone is using ONR after properly polished paint and dirty car. Meaning real world dirty car after driving winter time.


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## A&J

sm81 said:


> It really doesn't help that we haven't seen any videos when someone is using ONR after properly polished paint and dirty car. Meaning real world dirty car after driving winter time.


Everything has its limitations. I bet that neither you would tackle your car with just a car shampoo in a bucket & throw a soapy mitt onto the paint without at least PW it. Neither would I.

I hope these videos speak for themselves


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## chongo

A&J am not knocking ONR as a product, but as a rinseless wash then NO, but for other tasks, it's great. The first video wouldn't work, but the second one is a car that has been prepared to look like its never been washed in a while
If I had a garage and a car looking like that then I think ONR wouldn't even been considered. So it's ok looking at videos and think yeh that really works, when the truth is A&J, would you clean your car with ONR if it looked like that
I know I wouldn't. You go on about PW it first, but why would you do that before You use ONR I thought ONR was primarily used as rinseless wash, so if you are going to PW then you might as well do a 2bw


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## A&J

@Chongo

Click on the first video and watch in in youtube.

I still do a 2bm but with ONR...Ive been using it so long now that I know its a great product but its not magic. I use my judgement and if I need to PW the car I do so first...but unless the car has caked mud or sand or leafs or other heavy dirt that I dont bother with PW. I just pre soak the panel with 1:32 mix ONR, wait a bit and do 1-3 passed with the sponge, rinsing it after every pass. I still take precaution and I dont wipe it and dry it like an idiot. I even change the water in the rinse bucket during the wash if I feel its too dirty.

Now for an example. This is the level of dirt I would still tackle with ONR using a 2bm without damaging paint...

It would take some time and a bit of care but I could do it. 
Of course the faster & a bit safer way would be to PW most of the dirt away first. I think we all can agree on that but It could still be done using only ONR.

and the only thing I know I would have to PW away is the mud on the lower sides. That is in this case the only thing I know ONR wont handle. As you wouldn't with a normal shampoo with a PW rinse or snow foam first.


This is my car...and this is the level of dirt that I could only use ONR and the 2bm without damaging paint.




I dont want to force people to use ONR because its better than all the other products out there and that you'll save the environment with it yadda yadda. I use it, because I trust in it and because I see advantages in it.

I also guess that one mans dirty is another mans dusty.

Here is one more video that shows what I have been talking about how you can implement the APC and PW prior to ONR wash.


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## In2detailing

C. 
Going to have to disagree with you (and i really dont want to) on the rinseless wash doing more damage than a 2BM wash.
I have been doing rinseless washes for a while now and have not found them causing any swirls or scratches.
For sure if your car is proper caked with mud then I can see why a rinseless wash would not be an option but for 90% of people that isn't an issue
The pre soak breaks the dirt down safely and allows it to be wiped away with minimal effort, flip the cloth regularly to a clean side and you'll be fine.
Saves so much time as well.

But I guess we're all different, some people still use drying blades, one bucket washes, sponges etc etc.

I would happily do a rinseless wash on one half of a car and someone do a full 2BM wash with all the pre wash etc on the other. I would guarantee I'll be a) Finished quicker, b) Have caused zero damage to the paintwork and c) Leave behind as good a finish

I for one will be doing rinseless washes throughout winter, can't stand being in the freezing cold for ages!

Imran


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## A&J

This just in






talk about timing :lol:


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## chongo

A&J said:


> This just in
> 
> How To SAFELY Remove Bugs And Wash A SUPER DIRTY Car Using Optimum No Rinse & Power Clean - YouTube
> 
> talk about timing :lol:


A&J, seen this the other day mate still not the real world is it no it's another vid:wall:


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## A&J

OK chongo...not trying to force you use ONR. Use whatever suits you and whatever you are most comfterbal with.

But the real world is that my car is parked outside 24/7 and I use the rinseless 2bm method for 2 years now and I have snow foamed my car only twice in that period of time. I haven't even used the Power washer for 95% of the cases. That is the real world.


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## In2detailing

Personally I use the GDWM, whereby you pre soak the panel, let the product work to break down the dirt and then wipe the panel with an mf cloth to remove the dirt and then dry the panel.

I will need to record a video of me doing this to show the results and to show that no damage is being done.

I can see how people prefer the 2BM wash, but in reality people cause scratches and swirls with that method so really it is just a case of choose your method and do it properly, with the proper due care and attention and you'll be fine.

I will convert you one day Chongo 

Imran


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## chongo

In2detailing said:


> C.
> Going to have to disagree with you (and i really dont want to) on the rinseless wash doing more damage than a 2BM wash.
> I have been doing rinseless washes for a while now and have not found them causing any swirls or scratches.
> For sure if your car is proper caked with mud then I can see why a rinseless wash would not be an option but for 90% of people that isn't an issue
> The pre soak breaks the dirt down safely and allows it to be wiped away with minimal effort, flip the cloth regularly to a clean side and you'll be fine.
> Saves so much time as well.
> 
> But I guess we're all different, some people still use drying blades, one bucket washes, sponges etc etc.
> 
> I would happily do a rinseless wash on one half of a car and someone do a full 2BM wash with all the pre wash etc on the other. I would guarantee I'll be a) Finished quicker, b) Have caused zero damage to the paintwork and c) Leave behind as good a finish
> 
> I for one will be doing rinseless washes throughout winter, can't stand being in the freezing cold for ages!
> 
> Imran


Ok Imran would you use it on a car that has road dirt from wet driving in the winter, knowing that what ever you use to clean it with, MF towels or noodle mitt, you will collect a lot of dirt from the lower panels, then proceed to dip it back into the bucket of solution of ONR:wall: then as you go round the car, you are adding more dirt particles to the water. Some will drop to the bottom and some won't, and it's these that will cause the damage next time you are dumping your mitt or MF towel in. It's the same as a normal 2bw, you are still going to inflict some damage to the paints surface but not as bad if you are useing a rinseless wash. I work on a super soft black solid mustang, and I can tell you that this car gets used in the winter and the summer, and every time I use ONR (only in the summer) and no matter how careful I am, I still cause some marring, and light swirls so what am saying is, when is it safe to use on a vehicle that will not cause any damage to it at all? Has there been a survey were 90% of people have not caused any damage to there paint using a rinseless wash, or 90% of people cars are not caked in mud, probably not.

:thumb:


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## chongo

A&J said:


> OK chongo...not trying to force you use ONR. Use whatever suits you and whatever you are most comfterbal with.
> 
> But the real world is that my car is parked outside 24/7 and I use the rinseless 2bm method for 2 years now and I have snow foamed my car only twice in that period of time. I haven't even used the Power washer for 95% of the cases. That is the real world.


But your not listening A&J:wall: the whole point of using a rinseless wash is because you don't have the means of a PW, you have water restrictions in your area, and you don't have the means of a hose, what level of dirt do you deem safe to use a rinseless wash on. So out of them two years using ONR A&J, you have only used a snow foam twice, even in your cold snowy wet winters so your saying that you have only done a full decon Twice in them two years and the car being outside 24/7 in your country


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## A&J

chongo said:


> But your not listening A&J:wall: the whole point of using a rinseless wash is because you don't have the means of a PW, you have water restrictions in your area, and you don't have the means of a hose, what level of dirt do you deem safe to use a rinseless wash on.


I dont know Chongo...I live in a house, I can use a PW with snow foam if I want to but when I bought ONR no one asked me where I live, or if I have a power washer available...They just sold the product to me. There doesnt seem to be a rule on who can use it :wall:

What I am trying to say is that I use it because I find the wash to be better, faster, more enjoyable. 
- I dont get water spots at summer as I did with a normal shampoo
- I dont get water drips as I do with PW rinsing 
- I dont need a seperate glass cleaner, clay lubricant...and so on.

I see advantages in a rinseless wash, that is why I use it and not because I live in a water restricted area.



chongo said:


> So out of them two years using ONR A&J, you have only used a snow foam twice, even in your cold snowy wet winters so your saying that you have only done a full decon Twice in them two years and the car being outside 24/7 in your country


Yes. In 95% of the cases I did not need to use snow foam. Trust me, if I needed to I would.
As for decon...I have clayed my car multible times mostly before I wanted to try another LSP but used a Iron remover twice a year.

And my car still looks good.

A question for you is mr. C...How do you use ONR??? What is your method chongo?


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## In2detailing

chongo said:


> Ok Imran would you use it on a car that has road dirt from wet driving in the winter, knowing that what ever you use to clean it with, MF towels or noodle mitt, you will collect a lot of dirt from the lower panels, then proceed to dip it back into the bucket of solution of ONR:wall: then as you go round the car, you are adding more dirt particles to the water. Some will drop to the bottom and some won't, and it's these that will cause the damage next time you are dumping your mitt or MF towel in. It's the same as a normal 2bw, you are still going to inflict some damage to the paints surface but not as bad if you are useing a rinseless wash. I work on a super soft black solid mustang, and I can tell you that this car gets used in the winter and the summer, and every time I use ONR (only in the summer) and no matter how careful I am, I still cause some marring, and light swirls so what am saying is, when is it safe to use on a vehicle that will not cause any damage to it at all? Has there been a survey were 90% of people have not caused any damage to there paint using a rinseless wash, or 90% of people cars are not caked in mud, probably not.
> 
> :thumb:


Chongo. 
Look up the GDWM.
Once you pre soak the panel you take a cloth from the bucket, fold it in 4. Wipe one stright swipe on the panel once with one side, flip, wipe another part of the panel, flip to a clean side again, wipe again. Repeat until all clean sides have been used. Then discard the cloth. You never put it back in the bucket, thus old dirt is never being introduced into your bucket or back onto your paintwork. The bucket solution will remain clean and fresh. You use about 6 cloths per car, depending on size and how dirty it is.

In winter there's salt, the rinseless wash I use breaks down salt particles so they are safe to remove.

There's not been a survey, but I was just using 90% as an example number. I would say most people's cars are not caked in dirt and mud and can be washed using a rinseless wash and do not damage.

Like I said, above is just my opinion and is how I wash mine and families vehicles. Some people don't like rinseless washes, totally fine and up to them, however I disagree that a well carried out rinseless wash is guaranteed to scratch or inflict swirls onto your paintwork.

Imran

:driver:


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## FallenAngel

I think rinsless is just as safe as normal shampoo wash, If used properly, I did used it few times this summer and no damage was done whatsoever. The biggest problem I have with waterless and rinsless washes is , that I feel and can see that car is not comletly clean. By clean I mean , inner wheel wells, thoroughly washed wheels, underbody hosed off, all the little nooks and crannies, for me they are still dirty. For me rinsless will never produce up to my standards clean car, and thats why I continue to use traditional wash. I dont have access to water , I live in a flat, but I once a week take my stuff to local pressure washing bay, and do my complete wash there. They even have deoinezed water , so I can wash my car whenever I want and have time, even in schorching sun. But I always have OPT No rinse in my arsenal for other dutties, like clay lube, wiping of the dust from interior piano black pieces (qd strenght), and for removing bird bombs. Very versatile product, which is just as safe as traditional wash, if used correctly. I would never wash my car without pre-wash of some sort, so same applies to rinsless, it is a common sense.


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## sm81

A&J said:


> .
> 
> I hope these videos speak for themselves
> 
> How to: Washing with ONR (Optimum No-Rinse) in winter (or anywhere/anytime) - YouTube
> 
> Salt Removal With Optimum No Rinse Wash - YouTube


Thanks for the videos but there are not yet any proper videos where you really can see does it cause swirls or not. Yes you can wash with them but they do to your paint...

I have tried them and love to use them but....
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=305591&highlight=ultima+waterless

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=301592&highlight=green


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## A&J

sm81 said:


> Thanks for the videos but there are not yet any proper videos where you really can see does it cause swirls or not. Yes you can wash with them but they do to your paint...


How bout this one


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## sm81

If that hood is properly polished in your opinion then yes... IMO it isn't.


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## A&J

Well you seem to have cleaner really dirty cars the rinseless way given the two reviews...so did it scratch or not?

Btw...you were a brave man that day :thumb:


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## sm81

A&J said:


> Well you seem to have cleaner really dirty cars the rinseless way given the two reviews...so did it scratch or not?
> 
> Btw...you were a brave man that day :thumb:


Don't know... it wasn't properly polished before:thumb:


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## A&J

I guess this calls for a long term test than.


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## sm81

A&J said:


> I guess this calls for a long term test than.


Absolutely. Hmm.. gets me thinking...


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## In2detailing

Have a look at this video

Does the wash and then shows with lights etc that no damage has been caused






Imran


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## sm81

Lightly dusted summer soil as he stated...


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## chongo

What I am trying to say is that I use it because I find the wash to be better, faster, more enjoyable. 
- I dont get water spots at summer as I did with a normal shampoo
- I dont get water drips as I do with PW rinsing


 A&J you a lazy boy then:wave:

I have said before that I find that ONR has many tasks that I have used before, but I don't understand why in Jesus you would use it over a normal wash:wall: even if you have means of a power washer as Well

Anyway I know am right in saying that rinseless washes are bad for your paint.
Some of your videos and pictures just make me cringe knowing you are been brain washed into thinking it's safe as chips:lol:

So maybe someone needs to make a video of a black or dark car that has been cleaned properly by a 2bw, then inspect the paints condition to see if there is and damage (swirls). Then drive it around in the winter conditions, do a ONR wash and see afterwards if you have inflicted more damage, under proper light conditions :doublesho. And NO Imran, i will never be converted


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## In2detailing

sm81 said:


> Lightly dusted summer soil as he stated...


Here is a winter wash, although it doesn't have a zoom in on the paintwork with the light






Imran


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## chongo

In2detailing said:


> Have a look at this video
> 
> Does the wash and then shows with lights etc that no damage has been caused
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imran


OMG guys you have been brainwashed again:wall: the video is of a perfectly clean car, with maybe some very light dust on it.It still doesn't show a car that has been driven around in the dirt and winter months:wall:. You can put as many videos as you like, but the end of the day it still going to used in the incorrect way on a dirty vehicle (definition of a dirty vehicle ) that is another topic Anyway Imran, I need to make an order now of ONR, as am running low of clay lube:wave:


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## sm81

In2detailing said:


> Here is a winter wash, *although it doesn't have a zoom in on the paintwork with the light*
> 
> Imran


Exactly....


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## sm81

chongo said:


> OMG guys you have been brainwashed again:wall: the video is of a perfectly clean car, with maybe some very light dust on it.*It still doesn't show a car that has been driven around in the dirt and winter months:wall:.* You can put as many videos as you like, but the end of the day it still going to used in the incorrect way on a dirty vehicle (*definition of a dirty vehicle ) that is another topic* Anyway Imran, I need to make an order now of ONR, as am running low of clay lube:wave:


Thanks Chongo


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## chongo

In2detailing said:


> Here is a winter wash, although it doesn't have a zoom in on the paintwork with the light
> 
> How to Rinseless Car Wash with Infinite Use Detail Juice and the Garry Dean Wash Method - YouTube
> 
> Imran


Bad in every frigin way. Another useless video not showing the real out come of damage caused by moving around tiny particles of dirt:lol:


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## sm81

Strange that he still sell and rave about his Garry Deans Method after that...


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## A&J

Dont think of us as idiots...we wont attack the car with a ONR soaked towel if the car looks like this
https://www.google.si/search?q=wint...GNm_3PAhVH_SwKHUpWAoAQsAQIGw&biw=1760&bih=864
You wouldnt just attack the car with a soapy wash mitt if the car looked like that would you?

Ill say it again...Rinseless shampoos are substitutes for normal shampoos not for Snow foams, APCs and TFRs. If the car needs to be snow foamed than do it...

They are meant to be used on light to moderately dirty cars and still offer a safe wash same as normal shampoos.

TBH how dirty can a road driven car get in a period of 7-10 days? I figure that is the period we all wash our cars (at least for me)?


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## sm81

Great pics A&J!


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## sm81

A&J said:


> TBH how dirty can a road driven car get in a period of 7-10 days? I figure that is the period we all wash our cars (at least for me)?


Very...:lol:


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## A&J

@sm81

you must have missed this one


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## A&J

sm81 said:


> Great pics A&J!


Well you get the general idea :thumb:

Have you noticed the artist that "paints" on the back windows...man hes good!


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## chongo

sm81 said:


> Thanks Chongo


Anytime mate:thumb:


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## In2detailing

chongo said:


> Bad in every frigin way. Another useless video not showing the real out come of damage caused by moving around tiny particles of dirt:lol:


When I get time, I will do one during winter. Showing the panel in light with no damage. Then drive several hundred miles in our lovely scottish winter with all the salt etc. Then clean the car with a rinseless wash (not a waterless wash), and show the panel under light again :driver:

Imran

:car:


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## sm81

Good idea Imran


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## alan hanson

diary over the winter months would be even better


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## A&J

alan hanson said:


> diary over the winter months would be even better


Thats what I was thinking :thumb:


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## lowejackson

Some random thoughts

Although there is now a lot of rinseless products for sale which is great for consumers, ONR is probably the most famous and has been around for about 10 years, preceding this by several years was QEW. Leaving aside how fashionable a product is, the detailing community would have noticed if a product was causing more damage than an alternative or traditional product.

For many, a rinseless product is simply not what they want or struggle to accept it will work, to my mind this is perfectly fine. No one is forced to use any type of product but this is not the same as saying a product will cause damage to paint. 

I really like the idea of a test although I do note people have not been asking for proof a traditional product will not cause any damage. If someone does a test then it should be fair to both type of products. 

We have a vast number of threads on this forum talking about polishing to remove swirls, if most of them had been using a rinseless product we could easily make the connection and say swirls were created by a poor product. I have not checked but my guess is most cars with swirls used a variety of traditional products and yet we don't see comments about the shampoos they used. Of course, I fully accept swirls can be created during the drying process although this has not been part of this discussion. 

My view on ONR and by association all similar products is that it is not safer or more risky than a traditional product when used correctly. I started to use ONR when I had a black Alfa 164 with ultra soft paint, swirls would appear from the eddy currents of a fly which flew too close to the car. After months of washing I did not notice swirls but crucially no more than I had with traditional products and this was before I improved and refined my technique.


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## chongo

sm81 said:


> Strange that he still sell and rave about his Garry Deans Method after that...


This bang on:thumb: this is what am saying about and he himself admits it's scratching the paint, so what is the point of using a rinseless wash, which he was doing if it's going to damage the paint.

A waterless wash is used out of a spray container or bottle, which has cleaning abilities to remove light dust, but it states that it also has Polymers that lift up the dirt particles from the paints surface, but I thought that polymers help the bonding of a product to the paints surface or am I wrong.

Now Gary Dean made a point about using it before he carries out machine correcting or polishing which is something I do on classic cars, because you are going to rectify what ever damage is in the paint this is the same as Claying a car that has lots of surface contamination, yo are going to remove them with less care than you would if you were not polishing a car by machine.

So yet again, if you have power supply, water, PW, no restrictions, why the hell would use a rinseless wash:wall: it makes no sense at all


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## A&J

chongo said:


> A waterless wash is used out of a spray container or bottle, which has cleaning abilities to remove light dust, but it states that it also has Polymers that lift up the dirt particles from the paints surface, but I thought that polymers help the bonding of a product to the paints surface or am I wrong.


Not wrong but...A polymer is just a broad word for long string shaped molecules ("poly" meaning much or many and "mer" meaning parts). 
Change the ingredients of the molecule and you get a new substance. Polymers range from proteins and DNA to plastic.



chongo said:


> So yet again, if you have power supply, water, PW, no restrictions, why the hell would use a rinseless wash:wall: it makes no sense at all


To save time, water, electricity, money and because I choose to and enjoy it more than the traditional way of washing :thumb:


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## chongo

To save time, water, electricity, money and because I choose to and enjoy it more than the traditional way of washing


Cutting corners:lol:


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## A&J

chongo said:


> Cutting corners:lol:


I dont enjoy prepping the PW and cables and the hose and snow foaming and rinsing and washing and rinsing and drying my car for 2-3h every week when I can pre spray, rinseless wash and dry panel per panel and get it done in under 1h with the same result. I dont call it cutting corners, I call it working smart.

I have two small kids and a wife who needs me / wants me and I enjoy spending time with them but I also enjoy that 1h I have by myself cleaning the car!


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## chongo

I have two small kids and a wife who needs me / wants me and I enjoy spending time with them but I also enjoy that 1h I have by myself cleaning the car!

Ok A&J don't take it personal mate:thumb:

It's a discussion and a bit of humour :wave:


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## shaunmods

Just thought I'd give my thoughts on the product. I have run a mobile valeting company for four years and have been using ONR exclusively for the last 6 months. I can honestly say that this product has completely changed the way I run my business for the better! 

For me the product has allowed me to work smarter, more efficiently and in my opinion providing better results. Many of my regular customers cars I don't even break out the pressure washer even though I have it. As A&J has said if it needs a rinse with the pressure washer this is absolutely fine and is what I do for dirtier cars prior to washing with ONR :thumb:

Although saving water is a benefit, the key reason I use it is because of time saving and that it allows me to keep things simple  It may not work for everyone but it works for me.


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## A&J

Dont worry C. I dont take it personal...I dont even know you remember! You live thousands of miles away...We have never met before. I know its just a discussion!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That is why forums are made!

I made a decision! Im gonna make a long term test using rinseless washes over winter (like I would either way, Im just gonna document it as best as I can). Ill make a thread in the next couple of days about it explaining everything.


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## sm81

Looking for your observation...


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## chongo

As A&J has said if it needs a rinse with the pressure washer this is absolutely fine and is what I do for dirtier cars prior to washing with ONR 

So blasting dirt around a car is good practice

Anyway A&J I and many others will look forward for your thread on this:thumb:
Take care mate:wave:


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## phantomx0_1

is this for summer time? What if the car is proper minging!


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## Bigpikle

phantomx0_1 said:


> is this for summer time? What if the car is proper minging!


still works just fine - usual care needed as always.

Despite the fact that many people cannot accept it, ONR contains polymers that lift dirt away from the paint and encapsulate it so t reduces the chance of marring. That means you can work on serious muck without issues. Worth looking at some of the serious salty US/Canadian cars that people post up on the Optimum social media pages.

If my car is really filthy and its not going to freeze over night, I sometimes drag out the PW and give it a simple water rinse to remove the heavy muck. I dont foam though and just hook it up to rain water tanks.


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## Fiesta2012

Me again lol. Been using ONR all through the summer, love it. Reverted to 2 bucket method with winter salt about but a) im hating getting all the kit out and b) i reckon ive instilled more light swirls in 2 washes without doing onr than i did all summer with it. Is there a problem with the importing this stuff into the uk at min as its out of stock everywhere


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## In2detailing

Fiesta2012 said:


> Me again lol. Been using ONR all through the summer, love it. Reverted to 2 bucket method with winter salt about but a) im hating getting all the kit out and b) i reckon ive instilled more light swirls in 2 washes without doing onr than i did all summer with it. Is there a problem with the importing this stuff into the uk at min as its out of stock everywhere


Get on the infinite use detail juice  

Imran

:driver:


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## DLGWRX02

Fiesta2012 said:


> Me again lol. Been using ONR all through the summer, love it. Reverted to 2 bucket method with winter salt about but a) im hating getting all the kit out and b) i reckon ive instilled more light swirls in 2 washes without doing onr than i did all summer with it. Is there a problem with the importing this stuff into the uk at min as its out of stock everywhere


I just got a 32oz bottle last week from elite car care.
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=389893

Wanted to try it as a clay lube and quick detailer.


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## lowejackson

Motorgeek also have ONR in various sizes


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## Andysp

The more i read about ONR and other waterless type washes,the more i'm keen to give it a go.
Is ONR the best product of this type or are there other comparable products that you peeps would recommend,Meguiars do one if i remember correctly?

Cheers


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## tosh

Optimum ONR is the most common, but there are lots of others. 

Meguiars D114 only comes in gallons and is basically discontinued in the U.K. When it's gone Megs UK won't be bringing it in again. 

Find the waterless/rinseless wash thread, there are lots of tests and products in there. But start with a small bottle of ONR and see if you like the technique. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lowejackson

Tosh, how did you get on with the OID you bought in October'ish? Did you like it?


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## tosh

lowejackson said:


> Tosh, how did you get on with the OID you bought in October'ish? Did you like it?


Yes thanks; it seemed to be better than the concentrate I used to have.

Now that you've mentioned it, someone was talking about QD dilutions of ONR (I think it was 64:1); I'll give that a go against the OID:

OID neat
ONR 1:64
ONRWW 1:64

Weather is getting better, more light in the afternoons etc...

Cheers

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## A&J

tosh said:


> Yes thanks; it seemed to be better than the concentrate I used to have.


So you are saying the OID concentrate is not good?


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## tosh

A&J said:


> So you are saying the OID concentrate is not good?


It was probably 5 years ago that I had a bottle

I diluted to instructions, but it wasn't anywhere near as good as the FK425 or Clearkote QS I was using at the time; never used it again and sold it on.

This RTU bottle seems better than that experience.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## A&J

Im just the opposite...I liked RTU OID so much that Im planning on buying the concentrate OID.


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## lowejackson

RTU? Is this a make of bottle?

Tosh, try playing with the dilution ratios. I found the suggested 3:1 to be too strong.


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## A&J

RTU is Ready-To-Use


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## lowejackson

A&J said:


> RTU is Ready-To-Use


Ah, thank you.

Just as an aside, some have complained about smearing with the ready to use bottles. The suggestion from Chris Thomas was people were spraying too much on the panel. Normally one spray per panel should be enough


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## chongo

A&J said:


> RTU is Ready-To-Use


RTU.
No it's not it's Return to unit :lol::lol:


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## camerashy

chongo said:


> RTU.
> No it's not it's Return to unit :lol::lol:


Is this after AWOL!!


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## Bigpikle

OID is one of THE best QDs around. I've had the concentrate since it was first available here. Super slick, a little protection, some cleaning power and foolproof IME - never had an issue.

Good thing about the concentrate is that you can add a little to stuff like BSD or other products if you like a little home brewing. It adds super slickness and ease of use to most stuff.

If you use ONR then you should try it as the Optimum ******* between products is very real, and using stuff like OID, OOS or OCW as part of your wash, clay, wax routines makes the process so fast and easy.


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## Fiesta2012

Tried onr wash n wax today for first time. Just as good as regular onr but leaves a noticeable higher shine. Not issues removing either


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## Rocks703

I know I am a bit late to the table.

Would just like to add my experience.

About 4 years ago I moved to a flat that had no access to a hose. So looked into rinse-less washes. Over that time tried CG's, Wolfs and of course ONR (which is IMO the best one).
My truck is washed on average once a week with ONR. I use a 20L bucket half full plus 2 caps of ONR, noddle-mit and a stronger spray solution. One Panel at time, starting with the roof, sides, front then tailgate. If caked in mud, I will use the local pressure wash on rinse, then drive home to finish the wash with ONR.
I have been using this method and would honestly say I wouldn't go back to snow foam, pressure washing etc as the ONR does the job.
When I do my 6 monthly clean (clay/polish/seal/wax etc), there is hardly any correction needed in comparison to the time before rinse-less washing.


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## firehorse

Hi,


Rocks703 said:


> I know I am a bit late to the table.
> 
> Would just like to add my experience.
> 
> About 4 years ago I moved to a flat that had no access to a hose. So looked into rinse-less washes. Over that time tried CG's, Wolfs and of course ONR (which is IMO the best one).
> My truck is washed on average once a week with ONR. I use a 20L bucket half full plus 2 caps of ONR, noddle-mit and a stronger spray solution. One Panel at time, starting with the roof, sides, front then tailgate. If caked in mud, I will use the local pressure wash on rinse, then drive home to finish the wash with ONR.
> I have been using this method and would honestly say I wouldn't go back to snow foam, pressure washing etc as the ONR does the job.
> When I do my 6 monthly clean (clay/polish/seal/wax etc), there is hardly any correction needed in comparison to the time before rinse-less washing.


So you are saying that in your experience that rinse-less washing produces less swirls than usual snowfoam, pw and 2BM? About how much less like 50% or 90%  ?


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## Rocks703

firehorse said:


> Hi,
> 
> So you are saying that in your experience that rinse-less washing produces less swirls than usual snowfoam, pw and 2BM? About how much less like 50% or 90%  ?


IMO 50% to 60% less swirls


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## Bigpikle

thats a bold claim about 'less' swirls, but I've been using it for almost 10 years and have barely needed a polish on any of my cars - just the odd bit on the inevitable mark. 

I think many people just have a totally closed mind to the idea that the technology in the polymers can actually lift and encapsulate dirt, and hence eliminate a lot of the issues that cause swirls and marring in the first place. For a long time people thought the word was flat as well.....


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## firehorse

Rocks703 said:


> IMO 50% to 60% less swirls


That's good to know


----------

