# iPhone 5... anyone getting it?



## adamck

Hi All,
So... my 24 month contract is nearly up and its time for an upgrade.
I was just going to go for the iPhone 4 but research is telling me the iPhone 5 is on its way within the next 4 weeks!

They are saying 8mp camera, bigger screen, dual core A5 processor and other cool features, aswel as iOS5.

Anyone else holding out for the new iphone?


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## wish wash

I've heard its going to be a really good phone, but its never ending! iphone 5,6,7,8,9,10 lol


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## burger

Im going to be buying it ... has my 3G for far too long now.


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## greenwagon

Waiting patienty for it 

3GS has served me well but the camera on the boys iPhone 4 is so much better so I need the five !


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## Avanti

I won't be getting one, not through lack of funds but because it probably won't suit my wants. seems it will look like a miniture iPad though


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## Paulo

_I've been holding out for the last 6 months.... It had better be a big improvement on the I-phone 4 or I'll be gutted....:lol:_


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## npinks

my iphone 4 was up for renewel in June, but i have been hanging on for the 5

haven't looked for any info on it so don't know what to exect


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## awallacee30

My contract is up end of this month so good timing.

Still love my 3GS. Never kept a phone as long but I think it's defo time to upgrade.

Can see it taking a while to get hold of one tho. There's gonna be a lot of demand.


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## Ryan_W

I'm upgrading my current BB Bold 9700 (much better phone than the iPhone), and getting the new BB Bold 9900 next week. My iPhone 3GS has also served me well, but I'll be getting the iPhone 5 when it's out fo' sure!


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## SteveyG

wish wash said:


> I've heard its going to be a really good phone...l


Wasn't the iPhone 4 going to be a really good phone? :tumbleweed::tumbleweed:


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## bigmcclarron

The 5 needs to hurry up! I shall be getting one. Rumour has it best buy have already been prepped with it!


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## ArcticVXR

Yep I shall be having one and also the 'trouble and strife' is buying herself one too lol


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## anthonyh90

SteveyG said:


> Wasn't the iPhone 4 going to be a really good phone? :tumbleweed::tumbleweed:


yep, until people got told that the were holding it wrong. don't think i'll be getting one. i've been looking at getting a xiaomi mi-one. its got the same specs as rumoured in an iPhone 5 but with a custom version of android. looks good for only $310 unlocked


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## ianFRST

not even been announced yet has it?


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## block

ianFRST said:


> not even been announced yet has it?


Nope but it's fully expected to launch the first or second week in October.


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## Darlofan

4th October was date i'd heard. 
I've been out of contract for couple of months with a 3GS but waiting for 
4GS/5 to come out so i can get the 4 cheaper. 
I always stay 1 behind to save money.


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## anthonyh90

ianFRST said:


> not even been announced yet has it?


nope, still just rumours at the minute. should be announced in the next couple of weeks though.


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## Prism Detailing

I was in the Apple store and even they dont have a clue when its coming out....

Personlly as much as i like the Iphone4 it has its faults and will hold off to see if these faults have been fixed on the iphone5 before i invest.


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## block

Darlofan said:


> 4th October was date i'd heard.
> I've been out of contract for couple of months with a 3GS but waiting for
> 4GS/5 to come out so i can get the 4 cheaper.
> I always stay 1 behind to save money.


There is supposed to be a iPhone 5 and a budget iPhone 4 coming at the same time which I would presume would be an iPhone 4 without the antenna fault and reduced gb.


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## Rickyboy

It's crazy to see how many people have decided they are already getting the iphone 5 without even seeing it. Jesus, the date for the event to announce the phone hasn't even been finalised, the OS isn't at full release and there are people already saying it's going to be a great phone. Ahhhh, the way of life that is Apple - people blindly laying down their money and opinions for things they know **** all about yet... and when I say **** all... I mean **** all. No facts. No photos. No evidence. Nothing, except a name.


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## bigmcclarron

Rickyboy said:


> It's crazy to see how many people have decided they are already getting the iphone 5 without even seeing it. Jesus, the date for the event to announce the phone hasn't even been finalised, the OS isn't at full release and there are people already saying it's going to be a great phone. Ahhhh, the way of life that is Apple - people blindly laying down their money and opinions for things they know **** all about yet... and when I say **** all... I mean **** all. No facts. No photos. No evidence. Nothing, except a name.


You have to give it to apple, they are good at raping people!


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## bjarvis2785

Rickyboy said:


> It's crazy to see how many people have decided they are already getting the iphone 5 without even seeing it. Jesus, the date for the event to announce the phone hasn't even been finalised, the OS isn't at full release and there are people already saying it's going to be a great phone. Ahhhh, the way of life that is Apple - people blindly laying down their money and opinions for things they know **** all about yet... and when I say **** all... I mean **** all. No facts. No photos. No evidence. Nothing, except a name.


One thing apple manages to do is create devices that people want.
Forget specification, features, design... people will buy it because they already know it's going to be a good device. They have either used a previous model, or heard about the previous model and they want the future models.

Any company in the world would love to be in such a position.

It happens the same way in other industries, just not to the same extent... look at the fuss when a new console is launched - not so much these days, but remember the Playstation, PS2, Xbox launches... loads of hype!

Anyway, back to the phone.

It's pretty much a given that it will replicate the iPad2 shape, have a better camera, increased screen size and a slightly different size/shape.

Will I get one... well, I bought the iPhone, the 3G and now on an iPhone 4... so yes, probably will


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## tromppost

I am off to the Apple start a cue, any one fancy coming with me :lol:


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## shane_ctr

This year in October apple are relaising iOS5 so many people keep saying it's a phone it's NOT it's software apple are concentrating on software this year the iPhone5 won't be untill next year,


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## Guest

shane_ctr said:


> This year in October apple are relaising iOS5 so many people keep saying it's a phone it's NOT it's software apple are concentrating on software this year the iPhone5 won't be untill next year,


Both are occurring this year.


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## block

shane_ctr said:


> This year in October apple are relaising iOS5 so many people keep saying it's a phone it's NOT it's software apple are concentrating on software this year the iPhone5 won't be untill next year,


So these case mate cases are for what exactly?
http://cdn.tipb.com/images/stories//2011/09/iphone-5-design110915160526-560x427.jpg


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## Buck

block said:


> There is supposed to be a iPhone 5 and a budget iPhone 4 coming at the same time which I would presume would be an iPhone 4 without the antenna fault and reduced gb.


They are saying that there will be two iP5 designs - one with slimmed down functionality - a "lite" design and the full blown one to try and get eh market share for those who can't afford £500 or a £50pcm contract



block said:


> So these case mate cases are for what exactly?
> http://cdn.tipb.com/images/stories//2011/09/iphone-5-design110915160526-560x427.jpg


I've read that the iPhone 5 has its flash on the otherside of the camera ie top right as you look at the back

There is a legal case going on at the moment where some of the workers at the factory in China (Foxconn) that are making the iP5 have leaked the case design to 3rd party case manufacturers who are trying to get ahead of the game.

I'm going to wait and see what its like - the iP4 does all that I want but as mine is contract free and has just been replaced under warranty and is one week old minty condition I might be tempted depending on the RRP of the iP5 and potential trade in/resale value on mine - I'm not what you'd call an early adopter so happy to sit and wait on this until the hype (for which Apple are immensely capable) dies down


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## Clark @ PB

Contract is up in January on my 4 so hopefully a 5 won't mean I have to wait too long!


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## Buck

a few linkys: -

http://iphone5en.com/2011/09/teasers-how-iphone-5-looks-like/

http://iphone5en.com/2011/09/iphone-5-design-leaked-before-launch-date/

http://www.t3.com/news/iphone-5-new-home-button-design-spied?=60429


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## shane_ctr

block said:


> So these case mate cases are for what exactly?
> http://cdn.tipb.com/images/stories//2011/09/iphone-5-design110915160526-560x427.jpg


Look like iPhone 4 cases to me, I'm not fused either way as if it is out I'll be able to upgrade not long after but when I was last in apple asking about it and the guys were like there is def no phone this year


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## block

I think this looks like it's gonna be pretty close to the mark. Plus it matches up with those cases too.


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## shane_ctr

Note the word rumours in the web adress, I will be amazed if the phone is this year


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## Matt.

My contract is up and im holding out to see what its like.


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## Spoony

I'm also holding out, been due an upgrade for months now.


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## SteveTDCi

I was holding out, but then Tescos did the reward vouchers so i got the iphone 4 for nothing, well £240 vouchers


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## bjarvis2785

shane_ctr said:


> Note the word rumours in the web adress, I will be amazed if the phone is this year


how about a little virtual bet... 100 DW Coins says there's a phone next month?

iPhone5 - bigger/better screen, thinner, lighter, better camera, iOS5 (obviously)

iPhone4(S) - Same as iPhone4, made cheaper, reduced storage, different antenna design.
(different antenna design is to accommodate both the american GSM and CMDA network technologies)


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## block

bjarvis2785 said:


> how about a little virtual bet... 100 DW Coins says there's a phone next month?
> 
> iPhone5 - bigger/better screen, thinner, lighter, better camera, iOS5 (obviously)
> 
> iPhone4(S) - Same as iPhone4, made cheaper, reduced storage, different antenna design.
> (different antenna design is to accommodate both the american GSM and CMDA network technologies)


I'm with you. There's no way apple will wait more than 18 months to release the next iPhone.


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## mel

Darlofan said:


> 4th October was date i'd heard.
> I've been out of contract for couple of months with a 3GS but waiting for
> 4GS/5 to come out so i can get the 4 cheaper.
> I always stay 1 behind to save money.


http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=227199 :thumb:


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## vRS Carl

I have had each iPhone on release and will definately be getting the 5 when it comes out.

I have been running iOS 5 Beta since release and you are in for a treat once it is released to the public.


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## PaulN

block said:


> I think this looks like it's gonna be pretty close to the mark. Plus it matches up with those cases too.


I don't like it! I much prefer the 4 and sleek cutting lines!


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## puckacostello

The thing about the iphone is, they could make its soo much better with lots of other features, but yet they can still sell millions by changing a few things here and there ie. camera etc.. its not a great deal of progression but they still sell like hot cakes!


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## adamck

People are moaning about how people are decided on the new iPhone before seeing it, personlly most people are on contract that is now up so they are due an upgrade anyway.
I have a 3GS and my upgrade is on the 30th sept, so naturally yes i will progress to a newer iPhone as will most people.

The new iPhone will be an upgrade on hardware plus the iOS5 and yes they will sell millions of them.
People compare the iPhones to other makes and models of phone, i still am yet to find an alternative smart phone that is as good as even the first 2g iPhone!

I cant wait to upgrade


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## vRS Carl

^^^^

Second that. You can always make technology better. The minute you buy something it is 6 months out of date due to what is already being developed. Apple will already be 6-8 months into the design cycle of the iPhone 6 etc

If people really really want more functionality then they just Jailbreak it. I don't believe for one minute someone buys an iPhone if it doesn't have a feature they need. Most people just Jailbreak to unlock and add other features because they can. Not because they NEED it.


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## Grizzle

21st october


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## GR33N

Grizzle said:


> 21st october


We ought to have a sweepstake for the release day


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## Spoony

I see that and raise you October 5th


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## Rickyboy

7th of October. What do win?!


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## Modmedia

Me. I've had every one and they have all been fantastic.


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## GR33N

Rickyboy said:


> 7th of October. What do win?!


Bragging rights :lol:


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## griffin1907

23rd October in the UK


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## Rickyboy

griffin1907 said:


> 23rd October in the UK


They wont release it on a Sunday buddy.


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## Brazo

adamck said:


> i still am yet to find an alternative smart phone that is as good as even the first 2g iPhone!
> 
> I cant wait to upgrade


Your opinion which of course you are entitled to but check out any review and the android phones are at least as capable if not more so on most reviews. The new generation of androids like the HTC sensation are now even reviewed as a good chunk better than the iphone 4 so the 5 is needed to at least readdress the balance.

Personally having had both they are both miniature computers with touchscreens and different OS, I can't think of a thing that one does and the other can't.


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## lincolnb

It is not out yet but I think that Apple is heavily banking on publicity to get this through considering that most leads to it are not describing that big of changes from the game changing iPhone 4. 

They are saying that it is going to sport a balanced mix of how the 4th and the 3gs looked. So I am guessing they are going to take the route of the iPad as its look.

My contract will expire next month just in time before the iPhone 5 will be released.


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## Kane.

No, tied in a contract on the 4 and you can't do early upgrades here.


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## OvlovMike

greenwagon said:


> Waiting patienty for it
> 
> 3GS has served me well but the camera on the boys iPhone 4 is so much better so I need the five !


Indeed. I gave up my iPhone 4 because I needed the wedge to fund a separation - now rolling with a pauper iPhone 3GS and by God is it slow!


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## adamck

Brazo said:


> Your opinion which of course you are entitled to but check out any review and the android phones are at least as capable if not more so on most reviews. The new generation of androids like the HTC sensation are now even reviewed as a good chunk better than the iphone 4 so the 5 is needed to at least readdress the balance.
> 
> Personally having had both they are both miniature computers with touchscreens and different OS, I can't think of a thing that one does and the other can't.


Of course thats my opinion 

I do have some interaction with android as i develop apps for that platform too, although the SDK is horrible to work with and its still very buggy in comparison to iOS.

I guess its just like the windows vs mac or the windows vs linux battles.
Everyone will have an opinion, everyone will prefer their chosen OS and device etc... which is good for keeping the manufacturers on their toes to keep their products up to date and innovative!

Apple release a new iPhone every 12-18 months and constantly roll out operating system upgrades, but thats surely a good thing? its usually an upgrade due to people moaning the phone wont do something, so they roll out a new iOS or phone that will do it, its a huge step from the days where Nokia ruled and the only way to get a new feature was to buy a new phone!

Apple only released App's due to hackers making homebrew apps and instead of suing everyone (like M$ would) they stole the idea and made some money out of legit app creating! :thumb:


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## who45

i dropped iphone for a new htc android - apples products have lacked innotivity since the original 3 came out - the pinch zoom and touch screen was so far ahead of anyone else....................now everyone offers a similar thing which works as wellas the iphone. 

i have the 3d htc and im very impressed - why did i have it......the 3d gimmick won me over being into photography, its operating system was as easy as the iphone (in fact i found setting it up very easy). so why would i want another iphone that has had such minimal changes since its first "3" release - a nice hd screen is good, but really they need to pulling a hat out the bag to win over new users. die hard fans will stick with apple but i think now that androids out people are only just being able to understand what it is........i had no idea what an android phone was until 2 weeks ago - and i cant believe how close this is to iphone and offers more for me then the iphone does.

i admire apples phone, but its just boring every time its updated for me to consider having long term

apple need to drop silly updated bits and reinvent the iphone now with something to wow the public again

i will agree with the nokia comment - i think there well out of the game now, and nokia just had so many bugs and faults on there handsets - they imo cannot compete anymore with the market.

as far as im concerned its iphone, android or blackberry - and unless bb can stay ahead of what the other 2 offer i think they may struggle in the future (i am a bb lover too but its way too complicated in some ways - people want quick and easy pick up and play)

iphone took me 1 hour to fully set up
bb took me approx 2.5 - i found it very complicated having to dig deep in menus within menus
android 25 mins - easiest ever phone i have used


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## OvlovMike

Brazo said:


> Personally having had both they are both miniature computers with touchscreens and different OS, I can't think of a thing that one does and the other can't.


IMO (and coming from a techie with nearly 15 years of experience across all manner of platforms) the Android devices require too much buggering around with to make 'right'. The SMS thing is one I've mentioned before but is absolutely perfect for demonstrating this - to 'fix' poor SMS performance you have to download a (free, granted) SMS backup program, set a schedule and have your phone delete messages per schedule or number. IMO, that's a bit poor show these days given that in 2000 kids were racking up incredible bills based on SMS messages alone. Another one is backing up - as far as I can tell there's no simple, foolproof, back the lot up out of the box job. There are apps, there are ways, and Google accounts give you access to back up a lot OTA, however up until iOS5, you had to have iTunes to have your iPhone, and at that point your iPhone was backed up. I took delivery of my iPhone 4, plugged my 3GS in, took a backup, plugged my 4 in, it asked me if I wanted to restore, and walked off with 'my' phone on my new iPhone 4. I then did the reverse when flogging the 4.

Android is incredibly powerful and flexible - don't get me wrong - and there's a massive market for this. BUT, I spend all day every day customising hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of hardware and software installs - when I get home, I want a phone that I just lug around and works. When it breaks, I want my new one to look like my old one. Same when I upgrade. I want it to look like my old one.

My Mrs has an Android phone, and yes, wow, it does flash. Only really bugs me when Farnborough is coming around because they can't afford HTML5 devs, but that's about it nowadays... It also does quite a lot of cool stuff for free, like the WiFi hotspot that I have to pay for, amongst other things. True multitasking seems to be the latest mobile ***** extension, but I'm struggling to fault the iPhone's 'put stuff to sleep' approach, myself.

Anyway, that's all the 2cents I can afford - basically a market for each but I'd not say that the iPhone 4 is anything other than technologically behind the Android devices, while I think iOS 4 definitely still has it's place and the edge to the market it's appealing to. But then, the Sensation isn't the most technologically advanced device on the market. And the most technologically advanced device on the market, won't be tomorrow... It's a never ending game. At least on a platform as closed as iOS, we didn't nearly get stranded with a vulnerability in the OS because the handset manufacturer couldn't be bothered to update the device until everyone kicked off!

As is always the way, the platform's flexibility is going to be it's undoing unless it's careful. Perhaps even looking at including some of the above things and then having an 'advanced' option on initial boot that allows you to run the bare, naked Android rather than a reasonably locked down 'iOS, out of the box full product' approach. Thereby pleasing both markets!


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## OvlovMike

who45 said:


> apple need to drop silly updated bits and reinvent the iphone now with something to wow the public again


TBF, whilst each new version doesn't come out with being able to make your tea, or pleasure you in bed, or drive your car with you, there are various under-the-hood improvements which are more than matching the Android featureset. 3D technology is all very post-iPhone 4 on a mobile device (bear in mind the poor sod is 18 months old now - remember when a 6 month old Nokia was out of date?!) so to level that at it isn't really fair and shows a lack of understanding of product lifecycle and R&D.

The iPhone 4 was a reasonable game-changer (sporting THE BEST screen of it's class, and one of the best cameras on a smartphone) at launch, and clearly when WWDC would normally have seen the iPhone 5 Apple felt uncomfortable - likely because all this 3D stuff was starting to gear up and it wasn't really available in time to create a 'polished' product in time for it?

I dunno, I just think there are far too many who jump on the Apple Hatewagon because they have forgotten what the market was like a decade ago, and because they forget what was changed 18 months ago they brand a company as being unoriginal, or not being inventive, or not bothering to keep up... How about a thought that whilst yes, largely it'll be profit-driven, but also how about the fact that it gives users a whole 12 (or now 18 months) with a CURRENT model of phone. With HTC, you're lucky to see 12 weeks before it's replaced. Whilst I'm not one to be 'keeping up with the Jones'', as a techie it's reasonably important to be seen to be 'up-to-date'. I stroll up with a Nokia from the 90s and people are going to be raising eyebrows when I'm installing their bleeding-edge systems... Wrong, I know, but sadly it's the way many people are judged. I even got questioned the other day why I didn't pay money to Apple so I could be running iOS 5 on my phone


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## 335dAND110XS

I come from both sides of the Apple crowd:

1) I recently got a Macbook Pro and it knocks spots off any PC laptop I've ever had - we always got "high spec" laptops and was always very careful to keep them "clean" but within a year boot times drove me insane and crashes were a daily occurrence. The MBP isn't flawless - it still hangs up and can fail but it's very rare indeed. Everything just works and works very quickly. However I HATE the way Apple does the hard sell all the time - I DO NOT WANT more apps. I DO NOT LIKE i-tunes. Leave me alone - I've already spent a grand on your laptop!
2) I just have *no* interest in their other products. I can't stand i-pods - if I want to listen to poor quality music (unless you have big bucks upscaling software) then I'll use my mobile. The i-phone has swept the world away but I just don't like it -too inflexible, too geared to making you spend more money with Apple and I personally think i-tunes is utter cr4p. You also can't replace the battery. I have been on a few overnight stags dos (or camping trips) where all the i-phone users have been cut off by the evening. I just swap my battery over.

So I see if from both sides - neither a fan nor a hater.

I have to agree with HTC comments though - I have a Desire (got one early on) and while they do a lot of stuff, the camera and speaker quality is APPALLING. That's what I'm looking back at SE products (the soon to be released Arc S looks good) - they build them properly.


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## OvlovMike

335dAND110XS said:


> I have to agree with HTC comments though - I have a Desire (got one early on) and while they do a lot of stuff, the camera and speaker quality is APPALLING. That's what I'm looking back at SE products (the soon to be released Arc S looks good) - they build them properly.


SE stuff isn't particularly hot. Lately it may have improved but the only device from yester-year that I got on with was the original Xperia... Which HTC built.

Yet to be impressed by anything with a Sony logo anywhere near it in the last 5 years.


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## dominic84

I used to be really against Apple (my current phone is an Android), but recently I've started buying into the whole Apple ethos a lot more because it certainly seems like Apple devices do what their designed for very well.

So I think I'll be switching to the iPhone 5 when it comes out, and even considering switching to an iMac and iPad 2 as well.


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## 335dAND110XS

OvlovMike said:


> SE stuff isn't particularly hot. Lately it may have improved but the only device from yester-year that I got on with was the original Xperia... Which HTC built.
> 
> Yet to be impressed by anything with a Sony logo anywhere near it in the last 5 years.


My wife has an Experia Mini Pro which just works and I had two SE phones before my HTC - both excellent quality sounds and phones. I'll check them all out before getting one but it'll be another Android phone again. Really like what they can do and their link to Google is very handy.


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## OvlovMike

Choice of componentry (camera and speaker) may be better (I should hope so, they're supposed to be a 'premium' product!) but just working will be Android and the skin (if any) they dump over the top of it.

As above, I've had issues with it 'just working' as the few I've used for periods of time have needed too much for me to class it as a 'finished product that a numpty could use'. Always going to be people with better experiences or who are happier making the odd changes and customisations to make it work (maybe even SE bundle apps that fix the issues I had, who knows) so I'm not going to go so far as to say it's crap - just not for me. I certainly would stick 10 iPhones in front of my grandfather before I gave him the Android device Orange sold him. He struggles working the toilet.


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## 335dAND110XS

Mike - and there highlights the dilemma. With massive contracts, you're stuck with a phone for ages. The Desire is 95% good but 5% a PITA. 

Tests on these products focus on gimmicks, power, etc but almost never touch on "living with" the products. A bit like car tests - cars like Renault Sports get lauded but try living with one and you'll be driven insane. Get a "duller" car like a Golf/Polo GTi/whatever and it'll just work. Which makes it a much nicer ownership proposition IMO.


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## OvlovMike

Absolutely, which is one reason that I run with a SIM-only contract rolling and buy my handsets outright. Worst case, I sell it on as it's not locked and someone will pay a decent whack of what I paid for it. No idea where the 24-month contracts came from but iPhones at least on that basis you'll only be one model behind when you replace it - with an Android device you have to roll knowing that your 4-month old device is out of date... Which would annoy me. It's like all those people driving around in old-shape 10 and 11 plate Astras. Seriously, who goes out and buys last year's model?

Would irritate the hell out of me. Don't mind running something into the ground, but I would like it to be current for a bit and at least current when I buy it!


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## block

To me it's like this...

Android=casio
iPhone=omega

Both work as phones but one is of far superior quality to the other. As both tell the time but one is far better quality. 
Nobody needs an iPhone just like nobody needs a flash watch. But if you like quality bits of kit there's no comparison. iPhone every time.


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## Chris CPT

I had a stack of other phones before I ended up buying a reconditioned 1st Gen iPhone, which I bought primary to use for work.
I had that for ages, and then next one i owned was the iPhone 4, and the leap forward was astounding.
Apple do not bring out another phone with just a new number, you're always guaranteed the new one will be even better. My mate had a 3GS, and had a go on mine and was blown away.

I don't think the ongoing BB/other android phone Vs iPhone has anything to do with the tech inside it. Most really really don't care what's inside their phone. I definitely don't. 

My wife didn't get the latest HTC because of the tech, she got it because it was on a cheaper tariff, and was 'better looking' than the other android phones and now she hates it. According to her it overcomplicates even the simplest task - but then again she's had a go on my iPhone in the past, so it will seem like that.

Why do some always feel the need to compare a particular smart phone to Apple's? 
It's rare you see Apple owners kicking off when someone puts up a thread about a new Blackberry, but when it comes to iPhone's and a new one coming out, people simply cannot resist trying to have a poke at it. 

I think that a lot of gripes are that people go into blindly buying an iPhone/iPad because of the brand, and nothing else. 
But surely that tells you something? Yes, Apple's seem to be everywhere - that's because they are GOOD. They are the simplest smart phone to use (my grandma could use one), they look extremely cool, they rarely freeze or break and there's about a zillion more apps for them than any other phone.
If other phones were really that much better, why don't people buy them?

Marketing? Yes, Apple are brill at it, but I'm sure other companies could be as good if they tried.
People are 'Sheep'? Yep, there's a stack of damn good reasons for that though - if the other phones were as good, people would all be 'sheep' to those too.
The worst 'sheep' are the other phone companies, as they pinch all the cool stuff from iPhone's!


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## 335dAND110XS

block said:


> To me it's like this...
> 
> Android=casio
> iPhone=omega
> 
> Both work as phones but one is of far superior quality to the other. As both tell the time but one is far better quality.
> Nobody needs an iPhone just like nobody needs a flash watch. But if you like quality bits of kit there's no comparison. iPhone every time.


Hang on...

A Casio will almost certainly be much more accurate than an Omega and need no servicing. When "quality" doesn't actually mean better performance then what's the point? I can bet quite a lot that my £250 G Shock is much better at telling the time and date than any Breitling/Omega/Rolex and I don't give two hoots if I drop it.

So many equate more money = better performance. Much of the time, that simply isn't correct. But it keeps flashy watch makers in business I guess.


----------



## OvlovMike

Whilst I agree with you on that point, it seems somewhat hollow an argument from a BMW driver...


----------



## 335dAND110XS

OvlovMike said:


> Whilst I agree with you on that point, it seems somewhat hollow an argument from a BMW driver...


Not applicable. My BMW is very well made, very fast, handles very well and also has the rarely specced "indicators" fitted. It also has the biggest and bestest sunroof fitted to any car ever and very pleasant leather seats. And some marketing gimp reckons it's the Ultimate Drivers car. Not sure about that but it's definitely a rather good diesel estate 

In this case, more money = better car :devil::thumb:

I could have spent more on a 3.0TDI Audi Avant or C350CDI Merc estate and got a worse car so my point works there too :lol:


----------



## block

Ok then let's say...
Android=french car interior
iPhone=german car interior

Both are perfectly usable to sit in but which is the better quality? 

I did say that both watches would tell the time and both phones would work as a phone. 

Besides how much time do most if us actually spend using it as a phone? I use mine more as a mobile Internet portal really.


----------



## 335dAND110XS

Can you make phone calls on them? Any hints on how?


----------



## block

335dAND110XS said:


> Can you make phone calls on them? Any hints on how?


Lol lol


----------



## OvlovMike

block said:


> Besides how much time do most if us actually spend using it as a phone? I use mine more as a mobile Internet portal really.


5 hours a day.


----------



## Chris CPT

Yep, I spend a lot of time using it as a phone too. In fact it's better than a normal phone.
In all honesty this has saved me bacon a load of times in the past. 
On way to NEC needed to be there for X time to get Press badge otherwise I'd not get it. Couldn't phone through to normal press number. Phoned 118. No luck. Used NEC web address and did the thing below.
Using iphone - look up web address for whatever, see contact number, touch number, phone asks if want to call it. Yes please. Ring ring. Done. 
If it's not a 'touch and call' number, again, it's still ace. 
See number>hold finger over number>copy>go to phone>paste number>call. Simples. 
As above for email. Web address>see contact email>touch mail address>takes to email>send email. Done. 
All whilst being a passenger in a car doing erm, the exact limit, on a motorway.


----------



## SteveyG

block said:


> To me it's like this...
> 
> Android=casio
> iPhone=omega
> 
> Both work as phones but one is of far superior quality to the other. As both tell the time but one is far better quality.
> Nobody needs an iPhone just like nobody needs a flash watch. But if you like quality bits of kit there's no comparison. iPhone every time.


Shouldn't you be comparing Android with iOS? The iPhone itself seems to have so many build and quality issues I don't think you can put it in the same league as Omega.


----------



## Chris CPT

SteveyG said:


> Shouldn't you be comparing Android with iOS? The iPhone itself seems to have so many build and quality issues I don't think you can put it in the same league as Omega.


What build and quality issues are these? Never had any, and neither have to 8 other people I know that own an iPhone 4.


----------



## vRS Carl

SteveyG said:


> Shouldn't you be comparing Android with iOS? The iPhone itself seems to have so many build and quality issues I don't think you can put it in the same league as Omega.


What build & quality issues?

If your referring to "Antennagate" then any smartphone will do the same thing if held in the same way as proved by Apple and numerous other gadget review magazines etc. Apple even provided a fix by way of the free case, of owners choice, from a selection. They did this within 3 months of the "problem" arising.

As for build quality then i would put the iPhone in the same league as Omega. Show me a phone that is better built with similar or better quality parts (i'm talking mass production not blingtastic specials for people who's name starts with Sheikh!)

Also you can't knock customer care with Apple. I walked into the Apple store in Southampton as my touch screen went **** up. I gave no prior warning i just went in showed them my problem. They backed up my phone in the store, then wiped the phone, swapped it for a brand new phone and restored all my data. Show me any other Mobile Phone provider that will do that. Quickest you normally get a replacement is 24 hours unless you can get one from Carphone warehouse etc. But they won't backup and replace your data for you.


----------



## Estoril-5

without reading through the whole thread when is I5 out?


----------



## OvlovMike

Chris CPT said:


> What build and quality issues are these? Never had any, and neither have to 8 other people I know that own an iPhone 4.


3G/3GS and the cracks on the dock port, antennagate to an extent (that was just a bad decision though, painting lines where it was - as said and demonstrated it happens to all phones if you hold them a certain way and I never encountered the issue unless I tried to find it!) and that really is about it...

As has been said, there's no support that even comes close to Apples - take it into a store, get it swapped there and then...


----------



## anthonyh90

Estoril-5 said:


> without reading through the whole thread when is I5 out?


rumoured to be the end of october along with the release of iOS5


----------



## 335dAND110XS

OvlovMike said:


> 3G/3GS and the cracks on the dock port, antennagate to an extent (that was just a bad decision though, painting lines where it was - as said and demonstrated it happens to all phones if you hold them a certain way and I never encountered the issue unless I tried to find it!) and that really is about it...
> 
> As has been said, there's no support that even comes close to Apples - take it into a store, get it swapped there and then...


Take it to a store?! How inconvenient! When I've had a problem, they've sent a handset next day delivery (courier) then picked up the faulty handset.


----------



## OvlovMike

335dAND110XS said:


> Take it to a store?! How inconvenient! When I've had a problem, they've sent a handset next day delivery (courier) then picked up the faulty handset.


Can do that if you want, but I tend to be out and about so it's easier to go to a store at lunch than have to go to the parcel depot to collect it to find out you've beaten the van back and need to go tomorrow, and then worry about how to get it back to them because you're out and about again.

Unlike if you go into your provider's store, who tell you that they can send it back for you if you want...


----------



## 335dAND110XS

We have a home office so deliveries are easier. Going into town means paying for parking.


----------



## OvlovMike

Claimable expense. Lol.

I work from home a bit too, but depends what I've got on - if I'm home the nearest store is miles away. However - off topic. The point is that with the iPhone you have that option. Last time I checked with O2 and T-Mobile I could call up and arrange repair, they could even provide a (basic) replacement whilst mine was away, but if I needed it swapping there and then for a new one then I was stuffed.

Apple let me call up and arrange a replacement, or go into town and swap it in store. And they did, because there were some hairline cracks in the case. Again, HTC would tell you to jog on as it's wear and tear.


----------



## block

Estoril-5 said:


> without reading through the whole thread when is I5 out?


It's expected in early October although some think otherwise.


----------



## vRS Carl

335dAND110XS said:


> Take it to a store?! How inconvenient! When I've had a problem, they've sent a handset next day delivery (courier) then picked up the faulty handset.


To play devils advocate then.

Your phone goes **** up late on a friday evening. The earliest your getting a new one is Tuesday. They wouldn't get the courier in time for a saturday pickup so they would have to wait until monday to do it. Meaning your phone comes tuesday.

Whereas with Apple you go to the store and swap it over Saturday morning. Ok you have to pay a couple of quid for parking. Hardly going to break the bank is it.

Which do you consider is more inconvienient?


----------



## 335dAND110XS

Carl - TBH I've never tried swapping it at the Orange store but I reckon they would if needed. They seem to bend over backwards to help.

And I have about three backup old phones to use.

I will probably need to test Apple's famous customer service at some point though with the MBP.


----------



## OvlovMike

335dAND110XS said:


> Carl - TBH I've never tried swapping it at the Orange store but I reckon they would if needed. They seem to bend over backwards to help.


I reckon you'll be disappointed. Most (Voda I'm informed are the same as O2 and T-Mobile) of the stores and online stuff are 'different arms of the business' (********, but they expect people to believe it) and are unable to swap as the phones they hold are stock for sale, and the handset is on a repair warranty.


----------



## adamck

Just to go one step further about the Apple vs ???? debate...

Has anyone ever compared Apple's support system compared to other manufacturers? 
I mean ANY other manufacturer or ANY product....

A friend of mine water damaged his MacBook Pro on holiday, took it to an Apple store and explained what happened, they backed up his HDD and replaced the Macbook for him within a week for FREE!!

Apple has an amazing view on customer service, you may pay £1000+ for a laptop or £500+ for a phone, but damn do they look after you if it goes **** up!

I think if i took a £1000 pc into PC world they would laugh at me if it was water damaged and then try and upsell a new one to me!

The only problem ive had with my iPhone 3GS is the crack on the back casing near the charging port, but i have never asked anyone in an Apple store about it yet...

Oh and has anyone compared the SDK's between Android and iOS? its shockingly different!!


----------



## Grizzle

As far as customer service goes then they are unbeatable! 

2008 i bought a macbook fast forward a year and 4 months case cracks booked an appointment with the plan of trying to get it fixed free but was prepared to pay for it, got a phonecall it was ready, picked it up no charge.

Fast forward until two months ago the case cracked again and this time the charger has given up now i thought "well new charger and will need to pay this time for the case as its 3 years out of warranty" 

Booked in phonecall within the day new case and new updated charger FREE!...oh and also asked out for a drink lmao! 

Unreal, i wouldnt hesitate in buying another macbook infact i really fancy the new macbook air


----------



## adamck

Im currently rocking a Macbook Pro core i5 Mwahahaha!

Although it is a company laptop, but i get to take it home


----------



## 335dAND110XS

adamck said:


> Im currently rocking a Macbook Pro core i5 Mwahahaha!
> 
> Although it is a company laptop, but i get to take it home


Snap! :thumb:


----------



## adamck

Only problem now is that i want one for myself... so i shall be saving the pennies


----------



## A210 AMG

After my wife got an Iphone 3GS I was using it so much I bought the iPhone 4

Now my contract is up I will if I can swap for not much money buy the iPhone 5.

At first I did think its very exspensive for a phone but the more I use it the more I think its actually very good, it does everything I need very easily and its handy to have a desent camera, music player, video, address book, radio, sat nav, computer in my pocket all the time


I wonder how much the 5 will be?


----------



## jamest

adamck said:


> Apple has an amazing view on customer service, you may pay £1000+ for a laptop or £500+ for a phone, but damn do they look after you if it goes **** up!


Because most of their customers will end up buying the next upgrade is 6 months time for another £500+ which they will more than get their money back from.

They do it because it is cost effective, it they were to lose out on money they wouldn't. Business is business, Apple just does it better than Dell/Sony/LG/Nokia/HTC etc.


----------



## adamck

jamest said:


> Because most of their customers will end up buying the next upgrade is 6 months time for another £500+ which they will more than get their money back from.
> 
> They do it because it is cost effective, it they were to lose out on money they wouldn't. Business is business, Apple just does it better than Dell/Sony/LG/Nokia/HTC etc.


i wouldnt fully agree with that, ive had my iPhone for 2 years and if it wasnt for my contract ending and me getting a free upgrade, i would keep it for another year at least, my girlfriend is still rocking an iPhone 2G! (she had a disagreement with her Android phone and sold it)

Also the MacBook i have is more than powerful enough for at least 3 years usage as a development machine and probably 5 as a web laptop.

My sisters mac is now about 5 years old and she still loves it (although its a little slow running snow leopard).

Probably the fact that you've paid the price of 2 laptop's for 1, therefor its not too expensive for them to replace it.

Also im guessing the old laptop/phone will be reconditioned and sold on the Apple store for another £800 so they get their money back anyway.

Best of all is the price they devices hold, a £1300 Macbook is still worth about £400-500 in 4 years time, where my laptop will be worth about £100...


----------



## Ric

iOS5 and cheaper updated 4s in oct,

Don't think the 5 will be out untill next year, perhaps joint line up with ipad3


----------



## vRS Carl

I've been an Apple convert for a few years now.

I currently have

32GB iPhone 4 running on iOS 5
64GB Wifi iPad - Didn't get the iPad 2 as my current one is perfect. I may get the 3 when it surfaces
13" Unibody MacBook Pro - Wife's laptop
15" 2.8ghz Core 2 Duo, 8GB DDR3 Unibody MacBook Pro. I was going to upgrade to an i7 one however i decided to try an SSD first. By **** is it quick. It boots up in 11 secs (thats from pressing on button to being able to actually launch an App) before with the 7200rpm drive that was in it would take 35 secs. Apps launch instantly and i mean instant. Click on them and they open. The only two that take any extra time is iPhoto and iTunes but they are both up and running in less than 2 seconds (all timed with the iPhone 4 :lol

A lot of people complain about the price of Apple Products. Yes you may be able to get a more powerful computer/phone/tablet. But the thing i like about Apple stuff is that it just works. Before i started buying MacBook's i had an Alienware that cost me just short of £3500. But because it was running windoze i was constantly patching and rebooting. I haven't yet (touch wood) apart from changing HDD's had any problems with any MBP.

Same as with the iPhones. I tried all sorts of "Smartphones" before i eventually saw the light. Tried HTC, Sony Ericsson, Samsung etc. None of them match the iPhone for pure useability and the Appstore is amazing. You literally can get an App for anything!

Regardless of cost i will be getting the highest capacity iPhone 5 that comes out. I will then sell on my iPhone 4 as i will be able to recover a good £250-300. So in effect it will work out a lot cheaper for me and i won't then be tied to a contract as my current one runs out in Nov.


----------



## jamest

adamck said:


> i wouldnt fully agree with that


There are lots of people who do and not just with Apple. Despite the economics at the moment people will willingly throw away or sell on perfectly good products to have the latest and it is what Apple thrive on.

Their whole environment is set up to bring people in and not let them out. Everything they do is closed in to their own ecosystem and they don't allow third parties to use those services which has it's advantages and disadvantages to both Apple, their partners, potential partners and customers.


----------



## adamck

jamest said:


> There are lots of people who do and not just with Apple. Despite the economics at the moment people will willingly throw away or sell on perfectly good products to have the latest and it is what Apple thrive on.
> 
> Their whole environment is set up to bring people in and not let them out. Everything they do is closed in to their own ecosystem and they don't allow third parties to use those services which has it's advantages and disadvantages to both Apple, their partners, potential partners and customers.


But having all their fingers in the pie does help them to control virus's, malware, bugs, quality control, staff that understand the product, training for users and schools etc... and its a main reason why all apple devices sync together and work so well...

Some people will replace a perfectly good iPhone for the latest model, but its not like they throw it away, it will be sold on for a good price and someone else will get that perfectly good phone and the idiot who cannot live without the new one will lose more money in the long run... but it is their money!

I know apple have a big ongoing thing with Adobe regarding Flash for watching movies etc... the iPhone does handle flash, as it supports iPlayer, YouTube apps etc... but what they dont like is the security holes it creates in Safari and other browsers, they dont want the iPhone and iPod's subject to needing an antivirus due to holes within browser based flash videos which is understandable.
This is also why they are so specific about what apps can and cannot be released, it wont be long before Android starts seeing nasty malware and viruses etc...

Dont forget that when your buying and Android phone, your paying for the hardware only... when you buy an iPhone your paying for hardware plus an operating system.


----------



## PaulN

Ive got the 4 and love it (apart from calls dropping out) i had the 3G before and loved that. I think a normal person would be happy to leap frog a version and still feel up2date.

Lets be honest from the iPHone 3G you could easily live with any model if need be. The only thing i think you need to do is keep your phone in good nick and people will want it. Saying that a mate lost his 4 after a few weeks and is now using a beat up 3G he got for £50! I really wouldnt want to downgrade though.

Will i get the iPhone 5 next month? Nope, I could buy it out of contract and not even bother about flogging my 4 but I dont need it and I dont WANT it enough to get spanked £500+ for.

Ps for everyone upgrading from 4s fair play, its their money and it has nothing to do with me at all.

Cheers

PaulN


----------



## jamest

adamck said:


> But having all their fingers in the pie does help them to control virus's, malware, bugs, quality control, staff that understand the product, training for users and schools etc... and its a main reason why all apple devices sync together and work so well...


Hence why I said there are advantages and disadvantages.

I personally feel that the disadvantages are greater than the advantages and don't agree with a lot of the companies principals or behaviour and as such avoid them.


adamck said:


> I know apple have a big ongoing thing with Adobe regarding Flash for watching movies etc... the iPhone does handle flash, as it supports iPlayer, YouTube apps etc... but what they dont like is the security holes it creates in Safari and other browsers, they dont want the iPhone and iPod's subject to needing an antivirus due to holes within browser based flash videos which is understandable.
> This is also why they are so specific about what apps can and cannot be released, it wont be long before Android starts seeing nasty malware and viruses etc...


BBC iPlayer on iPhone doesn't use Flash (if interested you can read this), nor does the YouTube app use Flash.

Safari has many security bugs and is one of the worst modern browsers (desktop versions) despite Apple being "secure".

I have seen many more browser exploits caused by problems with the browser itself or Java than Flash.

Android has already seen viruses as has iPhone, no one is immune. Apple's control of their app store also has the negative effect of banning applications that may clash with some of their internal applications, as well as Apple trying to force all app developers to use their payment processing for any in-app purchases which is a 30% override as opposed to Android's 5% which is optional to use.



adamck said:


> Dont forget that when your buying and Android phone, your paying for the hardware only... when you buy an iPhone your paying for hardware plus an operating system.


Exactly, and that's the way I like it. I can take advantage of the open source nature (although not completely open source) and use custom ROMs which are a lot easier for developers to modify. I don't have any major locks in, nor do I have to sign my life away everytime I update my media player.


----------



## jamest

Apparently Apple are organising an event on 4 October where the iPhone 5 will be announced and available to buy a few weeks after.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...-event-pegged-for-october-4-with-tim-cook.ars


----------



## OvlovMike

Look forward to it, just need to get some overtime in so I don't have to tighten my belt that month!


----------



## anthonyh90

be nice to end the speculation and finally see what specs its got. i reckon the screen will be the same as it is already awesome maybe a dual core processor, better graphics chip and more ram.


----------



## OvlovMike

As long as it's as good as the iPhone 4, I'll be getting it. Yes, I could get a 4 for less, and that's all I need, but I want to pay for a current model and I'm sick of how much slower my 3GS is than my old 4 (yes, I know, it's not really very slow!)


----------



## bjarvis2785

anthonyh90 said:


> be nice to end the speculation and finally see what specs its got. i reckon the screen will be the same as it is already awesome maybe a dual core processor, better graphics chip and more ram.


my bet:

A5 CPU as used in iPad2.
8MP Camera
Bigger screen (4" max)
iPad2 style design, obviously a slightly different shape to accommodate screen.


----------



## OvlovMike

I reckon it'll keep the form factor and screen. It's already a comparable size with the competition, and the 'complete redesign' of the 3GS to iP4 was based on similar dimensions.

A5 CPU, maybe - I suspect it may be die-shrunk though as this would reduce power consumption and heat generation. Currently I believe it's 45nm, and 32nm is much more widely used now than when the iPad 2 was released.
8MP camera is a fair shout, Apple have never been one for 'ground-breaking MegaPixels' but more good quality sensors.

Dunno about the iPad 2 style design. I hope not, but will reserve judgement.


----------



## ivor

I'll probably get one as i have been anti Iclone for ages but finally gave in got an Ipod touch and love it, The thing with people trading in the 4's is it's going to knock the bottom out of the market and you will most likely be able to buy a brand new 4 in the shop for a fraction of the cost so that they get rid of them the same way they did with the Ipad when the 2 cam out you could get a 1 for £100


----------



## jamest

Al Gore (board member at Apple) has said that new iPhones are coming out next month. First official mention from someone within Apple.


----------



## adamck

ivor said:


> I'll probably get one as i have been anti Iclone for ages but finally gave in got an Ipod touch and love it, The thing with people trading in the 4's is it's going to knock the bottom out of the market and you will most likely be able to buy a brand new 4 in the shop for a fraction of the cost so that they get rid of them the same way they did with the Ipad when the 2 cam out you could get a 1 for £100


Where can you get an iPad 1 for £100??
lowest ive seen is about £200 odd

I think he 4 will keep a decent second hand price and will fetch at least £250 on the bay!

The 3GS is still selling for around £180 on ebay in used condition.


----------



## PaulN

adamck said:


> Where can you get an iPad 1 for £100??
> lowest ive seen is about £200 odd
> 
> I think he 4 will keep a decent second hand price and will fetch at least £250 on the bay!
> 
> The 3GS is still selling for around £180 on ebay in used condition.


Yeah my mate just flogged his iPad 1 for £350! iPhone 4 prices new or used wont get hit at all.... All it will do is finally kill off 3G prices and start to hurt the 3Gs.

As people move to 5s the second hand boom will move to 4s and the entry level user will be on 3Gs.

Ive never know or seen anything like the resale market for iPhones or iPads. Its crazy.


----------



## bjarvis2785

PaulN said:


> Yeah my mate just flogged his iPad 1 for £350! iPhone 4 prices new or used wont get hit at all.... All it will do is finally kill off 3G prices and start to hurt the 3Gs.
> 
> As people move to 5s the second hand boom will move to 4s and the entry level user will be on 3Gs.
> 
> Ive never know or seen anything like the resale market for iPhones or iPads. Its crazy.


I'm with you on this.

Part of the reason the 2nd hand market is so good with the iPhones is because of the way Apple handle last years model.

For example, they bring out the iPhone5 in a couple of weeks time, and will start selling the iPhone4 as a budget device but with only 8GB.
This means that there's now loads of second hand iPhone4's knocking around but with at least 16GB storage... It makes the 2nd hand models more appealing to those wanting an iPhone without the £500 price tag.


----------



## adamck

Not only that but all the 3gs and iPhone 4's will get an update to the new iOS so it will feel like a brand new phone again.
Its all clever tactics


----------



## ChuckH

My contract has 3 months to run so its likely I will go for the 5.. My 3gs has been the best phone I've had so its the logical choice..


----------



## [email protected]

I have an upgrade waiting, but I'm very pleased with my iP4 so the iOS5 upgrade may keep me happy for a bit. I will have to see the options and style of the new one before I decide.


----------



## RICHIE40

Finally find out on the 4th October :thumb:


----------



## shane_ctr

block said:


> I think this looks like it's gonna be pretty close to the mark. Plus it matches up with those cases too.


Just heard there is a big possibility that the new cases are for the Ipad Touch that might be announced tonight and not an Iphone 5


----------



## RICHIE40

Apple Online store is closed, adding new items apparently


----------



## Bero

Jap apple page showing iphone 4S for sale 14th of Oct....no mention of a iP5.


----------



## Matt.

Just heard something on the news about an announcement. They did say new gadget. 

I cant see it being the IP5 although i really cant wait much longer as i have had enough of my Satio!


----------



## empsburna

4S.

Meh.


----------



## Eddy

Midlands Detailing said:


> 4S.
> 
> Meh.


Confirmed?


----------



## 182_Blue

Eddy said:


> Confirmed?


Yes
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8804922/Apple-iPhone-event-live.html


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Nowt to get excited about at all. They are starting to take the pee a bit...

iOS5 is more exciting than the 4S. I won't bother upgrading tbh


----------



## Grizzle

Nothing worth bothering about

1080p Galaxy S2 has it
8mp CMOS camera Nokia had that ages ago...


----------



## Davemm

Any news on the new iPad ?


----------



## Matt.

So is the iOS5 released at a later date? Could this be the release of the IP5?


----------



## rovex

Ill stick to androids, still dont get the iPhone thing, maybe its because I had smartphones of all types for years before the iphone existed, but i just find them really dull and nothing to get excited about.
Hardware wise i can only see it catch up to the average recent androids, and it will still be expensive and running the 'stable by limitation' iOS that wants to rape you of money at every tap.


----------



## block

Ios5 is October 12th.


----------



## ianFRST

still waiting for the 5


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

The SIRI stuff is impressive. Is that iOS driven or hardware?


----------



## Ric

LOL who said 5 was been released, oops


----------



## Leemack

So are there any pics yet?


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

It looks IDENTICAL to the 4


----------



## simonjj

Showshine said:


> So are there any pics yet?


Looks identical to the 4.


----------



## simonjj

snap!


----------



## Matt.

Whats the SIRI?


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Matt. said:


> Whats the SIRI?


Open the pod bay doors, Siri.
19.26 More Siri demonstrations show it converting currency, searching Wikipedia and finding restaurants on Yelp, all with only voice input from the user. It also takes dictation.
19.22 Another example. Ask Siri to "remind me to call my wife when I leave work" and it sets up a reminder to go off when you actually leave work, using your location as a trigger.
19.18 Users will summon Siri by holding down the home button. Showing the system off, Scot Forstall asks, "do I need a raincoat?" and it replies that "it sure looks like rain today".
19.16 And here "the best thing yet", says Schiller. It's the rumoured new voice control functions, called Siri.
What we really want to do is talk to our device. Siri is your intelligent assistant and helps you get things done, just by asking.


----------



## 182_Blue

Its now on Apple website

http://www.apple.com/uk/


----------



## Deeg

Shaun said:


> Its now on Apple website
> 
> http://www.apple.com/uk/


Is it just me or is the apple website down, keep getting a messages saying I'm not authorised to access the site????


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/#video-4s


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

SIRI is awesome if you watch that vid


----------



## Avanti

RussZS said:


> http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/#video-4s


Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/" on this server.

Reference #18.6c15434d.1317754748.40c2bb3


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Lol, the Apple site is down!


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

19.52 The markets have confirmed their disappointment. Apple shares are now trading down 3.6 per cent, at $360.78.


----------



## banditbarron

Major Lol at apple

My windows mango update last week meant my phone does pretty much what the new (half new) iphone does

I reckon not bringing out the 5 will be a massive mistake for them

Dave


----------



## Chicane

ianFRST said:


> still waiting for the 5


you'll be waiting a while then :lol:


----------



## adamck

Yups pretty gutted about all this, lots of hype and then the same phone but upgraded.

On the positive side i suppose it is all the upgrades everyone was expecting to be inside the iPhone 5 but just in the older case.

If this was in a thinner new designed case everyone would have been happier 

Still due an upgrade so will be 64GB White one on order


----------



## rovex

So basically it just an updated iPhone 4 that catches up to where others were 6 months ago. With other phones coming in Q4 with true HD screens and quad core CPUs with PS3 power this is really not going to cut it.

Siri.. Nice but only slightly better than Google voice actions. Both are just the latest way to look like you are mad as you talk to yourself in public.


----------



## Rob_Quads

rovex said:


> Siri.. Nice but only slightly better than Google voice actions. .


If Siri works as described its on another ball park to Google voice actions. Note its not an "Apple" thing as it was done by another company which was bought up by Apple.

Voice actions is just spoken commands. Siri is all about natural language interpretation which is much harder.

Similar to IBMs Watson just on a much much smaller scale


----------



## bluevortex

I think this is great, looking at all the new features available and improvements with IOS5 there's so much to get excited about. Loving the icloud functionality and as we have several iPhones and an iPad2 in our family I really like the idea of joining all these devices together for sharing pictures, imessage and so on. Downloading updates without pc, looks good to me, mirroring, plus all the other updates and improvements coming. It's all about IOS5

Blue

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.330048,-3.610282


----------



## Eddy

But when will this siri actually be any good? Sure, you can show off to your mates the first time they see it, but who is really going to be at work and say" remind me to buy the wife flowers after work" or ask what the weather is going to do?

It's a gimmick.

I'm sure it'll be great but its a massive anti-climax to be honest. I might just use it as an excuse to upgrade my 3gs to a normal 4.


----------



## Darlofan

Darlofan said:


> 4th October was date i'd heard.


Do i win a prize?


----------



## Darlofan

Am i getting this right? 
It's £499 in UK but $199(£130) in the US?

I always knew the US tended to be cheaper than here but that gap seems rather large


----------



## Derekh929

I'm a massive apple fan i feel this is a big let down and i think they will lose sales as screen to small and other phone's way ahead , very disappointed with the 4s lets hope after i try it i see the benefit's. i can see iphone 5 launch quicker than 1 year now IMHO


----------



## Leemack

Very dissappointing and a fail imo

Ip4 updated is not what the world was waiting for. Ill stick with my Desire HD thanks


----------



## Elliott19864

Does anyone know what they will be asking for the phone? I am due an upgrade on the 14th of October.

I am with Vodafone but I heard there a bit slow with offering the new iphones?


----------



## Eddy

Darlofan said:


> Am i getting this right?
> It's £499 in UK but $199(£130) in the US?
> 
> I always knew the US tended to be cheaper than here but that gap seems rather large


£499 will be sim free and the US prices I believe are based on you taking a 2 year contract out.

Could be wrong but that's how I understand it.


----------



## Rob_Quads

Darlofan said:


> Am i getting this right?
> It's £499 in UK but $199(£130) in the US?


No Your not. your comparing contract to SIM-free prices. Its essentially the same prices as the previous model so it means in-contract it will be virtually the same price as the iPhone 4 is at the moment.


----------



## Chicane

seems the stock market isn't keen either...

http://9to5mac.com/2011/10/04/the-market-doesnt-like-the-iphone-4s-aapl-loses-almost-5-of-its-value/


----------



## Rob_Quads

Started climbing back up already


----------



## Eddy

Icloud is something I'm properly looking forward to too.

It's still going to be the greatest phone out there, just feel they could have done much more, a bigger screen would have been perfect really.


----------



## Rob_Quads

Engdaget review of Siri - Sounds like it does work

We tried to psych it out with a bunch of random requests, including the history of Chester, Vermont (a lovely town) and the best Ramen places in San Francisco. Siri never faltered, never missed a beat. It worked as well as Scott's demo up on the stage.


----------



## Matt.

So is the IP5 a pretty certain no no for this year?


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Matt. said:


> So is the IP5 a pretty certain no no for this year?


Yep! 

I'd imagine July next year at the earliest, based on previous releases.


----------



## Leemack

July? :doublesho

My mrs is after a new phone - Won't be an iphone now


----------



## Derekh929

Well look at Apple stock down 5% and on the site i was on every comment negative never ever seen that when new apple product comes out


----------



## rovex

Says it all that Apple shares are down..

If Siri works as described (I wont take Engadgets word for it they are apple fanbois), then its the only positive that today has brought. Having said that its a function i would never use anyway. In every other way the iP4S is going to get slaughtered by the Nexus Prime next week, which in itself is only a starting point for the powerhouses the Android OEMs will launch in the spring.


----------



## Rob_Quads

Derekh929 said:


> Well look at Apple stock down 5%


..but climbing back up again - almost back to level again


----------



## empsburna

rovex said:


> Says it all that Apple shares are down..
> 
> If Siri works as described (I wont take Engadgets word for it they are apple fanbois), then its the only positive that today has brought. Having said that its a function i would never use anyway. In every other way the iP4S is going to get slaughtered by the Nexus Prime next week, which in itself is only a starting point for the powerhouses the Android OEMs will launch in the spring.


Isn't that the same thing (maybe reshashed) that has been tipped for every release of very android phone? I've yet to see an android 'iPhone killer'


----------



## Rob_Quads

rovex said:


> Says it all that Apple shares are down..
> 
> In every other way the iP4S is going to get slaughtered by the Nexus Prime


How does it slaughter it? Specs look very very similar to me bar the bigger screen (which personally I don't want)


----------



## Chicane

rovex said:


> Says it all that Apple shares are down..


Probably due to them recruiting Paul O'Grady to host the keynote










:lol:


----------



## Gruffs

Good, I don't want it any bigger. It's about as big as i want in my pocket now.

They already have the iPad if you want a bigger screen.

All they could do was make it faster and with better functionality. Which they have done. 

So much work effort into making things work effortlessly, sometimes we want something to be epic, but we don't know what would n
make it epic. Just that it should be dammit.

Oh, Chicane, You missed a bit............


----------



## empsburna

It's funny how back in 1987 when apple released the video of the 'knowledge navigator' in a bow tie predicting how we would interact with computers in 2010 people laughed, but they were scarily close with some of the predictions, especially with this release of Siri. I wonder what would have happened if Scully hadnt of left and the iPod was never launched.


----------



## Chicane

It would be great if you could tell Siri to turn the likes of 3G / WIFI on or off, or can you already do that?


----------



## rovex

Rob_Quads said:


> How does it slaughter it? Specs look very very similar to me bar the bigger screen (which personally I don't want)


BETTER screen, faster CPU, faster RAM (i just know this take it on trust) 21Mb HSDPA, its not running a crippled restricted OS.

How can you not want a bigger screen? The retina is pitifully small. High resolution yes, but too small and the wrong shape.


----------



## rovex

Midlands Detailing said:


> Isn't that the same thing (maybe reshashed) that has been tipped for every release of very android phone? I've yet to see an android 'iPhone killer'


Thats a matter of opinion, every Android has been an iPhone killer for me because none of them run iOS, which i despise. In hardware terms pretty much every medium spec Android has exceed the IP4 for the last 12 months (the A4 is actually a Samsung Hummingbird CPU, as found in the original Galaxy S, only with a lower spec GPU in the iPhone and iPad). The Galaxy S2 CPU is faster than the A5, considerably in fact. Only a few benchmarks for some graphics tests say otherwise and the Exynos is locked to 60fps anyway, making benchmarking a poor test.


----------



## 182_Blue

Rovex stop baiting iPhone users, if you don't like the iPhone why are you even on a Apple thread


----------



## IanG

Darlofan said:


> Am i getting this right?
> It's £499 in UK but $199(£130) in the US?
> 
> I always knew the US tended to be cheaper than here but that gap seems rather large


The UK price is sim free the one for the US is on a two year contract.

The phones will probably be cheaper when available from one of the UK networks


----------



## Gruffs

rovex said:


> BETTER screen, faster CPU, faster RAM (i just know this take it on trust) 21Mb HSDPA, its not running a crippled restricted OS.
> 
> How can you not want a bigger screen? The retina is pitifully small. High resolution yes, but too small and the wrong shape.


Too small and the wrong shape for what?


----------



## IanG

RussZS said:


> Yep!
> 
> I'd imagine July next year at the earliest, based on previous releases.


Should be just in time for my current contract to end


----------



## Gruffs

rovex said:


> Thats a matter of opinion, every Android has been an iPhone killer for me because none of them run iOS, *which i despise*. In hardware terms pretty much every medium spec Android has exceed the IP4 for the last 12 months (the A4 is actually a Samsung Hummingbird CPU, as found in the original Galaxy S, only with a lower spec GPU in the iPhone and iPad). The Galaxy S2 CPU is faster than the A5, considerably in fact. Only a few benchmarks for some graphics tests say otherwise and the Exynos is locked to 60fps anyway, making benchmarking a poor test.


errrrrr

Sod off out a thread all about Apple products then.

ignore my last question, i don't value your opinion.

Now you're just trolling.


----------



## empsburna

Shaun said:


> Rovex stop baiting iPhone users, if you don't like the iPhone why are you even on a Apple thread


----------



## empsburna

Apples prediction for computing in 2010...






...from 1987.


----------



## Matt.

Wow that long?

I don't know if the Satio will last that long. :doublesho


----------



## rovex

Gruffs said:


> Too small and the wrong shape for what?


Anything. Its just small. It also doesnt conform to any conventional movie or picture dimensions making black bars a requirement to see the full image. This further reduces the size of any displayed image, or forces cropping.


----------



## empsburna

rovex said:


> Anything. Its just small. It also doesnt conform to any conventional movie or picture dimensions making black bars a requirement to see the full image. This further reduces the size of any displayed image, or forces cropping.


Isn't that what the iPad is for?


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

Most Android users I know are just too tight to pay for an iPhone!


----------



## rovex

Gruffs said:


> errrrrr
> 
> Sod off out a thread all about Apple products then.
> 
> ignore my last question, i don't value your opinion.
> 
> Now you're just trolling.


Oh dear i-fans are touchy arent they.

This isnt about 'Apple products', its about the iPhone specifically. I was hoping for more choice in the marketplace, but this isnt improving my choice, its the same old same old.

I was hoping for more, it drives competition, but really this is pathetic. Yes i despise iOS, again i was hoping for something new, but there is nothing in iOS 5 that android doesn't have, or WP7 mango does more interestingly.

The problem is, if you are immune to iOS' charms its got nothing. To restricted for me, even jailbroken. No customization, iTunes tied, for me at least rather unattractive. Sure elements are more intuitive than Android, but id happily suffer Androids few interface 'novelites' to get the rest, which is far better.


----------



## rovex

RussZS said:


> Most Android users I know are just too tight to pay for an iPhone!


My SGS2 cost more actually. It is a much more powerful device so i would expect it to.


----------



## rovex

Midlands Detailing said:


> Isn't that what the iPad is for?


Not really no. I have a 4.3 inch screen i dont feel the need for an iPad the overall package is only slightly bigger than an iP4 (and is thinner).

Frankly i find the iPad to big, s i do the 10 inch Android tabs. Its simply unwieldy and not so portable. 7 or 8 inches is ideal for a pad.


----------



## Rob_Quads

any there lies the crux of it. Different people have different requirements and for many Apple product fit the bill because they just work without having to fiddle.

Personally the 7" is not big enough for me for a Tablet. iPad is the great compromise between portability and size. Was great for watching the F1 while away on holiday using the iPlayer.


----------



## SteveyG

Wow, either they're working on something special for the iPhone 5 which couldn't be done in time, or they are out of ideas for the hardware.



Eddy said:


> It's still going to be the greatest phone out there,


You must be joking...


----------



## rovex

Rob_Quads said:


> any there lies the crux of it. Different people have different requirements and for many Apple product fit the bill because they just work without having to fiddle.
> 
> Personally the 7" is not big enough for me for a Tablet. iPad is the great compromise between portability and size. Was great for watching the F1 while away on holiday using the iPlayer.


Exactly. I do get that appeal, but for me the fact that you CANT fiddle is a huge drawback. iOS is very impersonal. 'i' devices never feel like they are truly mine, more like im renting them from Apple.


----------



## GR33N

I wake up every morning, look at my phone and think God damn thats the wrong shape for a phone! I wish it was shaped like a heart 

Anyway rovex, im glad you dont like Apple products, that means there's more stock for those of us who do. Why dont you try moving along to another thread now so us sensible people who want to discuss in a sensible manner can do. :thumb:


----------



## GR33N

I the specs for the 4S and iOS5 look great, but I cant feel a little disappointed they didn't come up with a new design.

Its not that I dislike the design of the iPhone4 but people spending £35 a month/ £500 on a phone want it look different to the last one. Its like a lot of things these days its as much a status symbol as a functional tool and 95% of people wouldnt tell the difference between an iPhone 4 and 4S at a glance.

Not sure whether to keep my iPhone 4 or get a 4S, tempted to wait until next year when they should hopefully release a iPhone 5.


----------



## rovex

SteveyG said:


> Wow, either they're working on something special for the iPhone 5 which couldn't be done in time, or they are out of ideas for the hardware.
> 
> You must be joking...


I wonder actually. All this suing Apple is doing is burning their bridges. Remember they dont make hardware, they license it. Much of the old IP4 was Samsung (memory, CPU, mainboard construction) or LG (Retina Display). How are they going to get the latest tech if other companies wont deal with them any more?

The rumour was that the iP5 was delayed because they couldn't get better display tech from anyone. This half launch seems to back that up. All its done is ditch the Samsung hardware.


----------



## Mick

Rovex, 


you have already been asked once by an Admin to leave this thread if you are not going to contribute.

If you wish to start a seperate thread about the drawbacks of apple and their operating system, then please feel free to do so, but please stay on topic of this thread which is about the apple iphone 5 and who is getting one, which clearly does not pertain to you.


----------



## SteveyG

Mick said:


> Rovex,
> 
> you have already been asked once by an Admin to leave this thread if you are not going to contribute.
> 
> If you wish to start a seperate thread about the drawbacks of apple and their operating system, then please feel free to do so, but please stay on topic of this thread which is about the apple iphone 5 and who is getting one, which clearly does not pertain to you.


What iPhone 5?!


----------



## Mick

SteveyG said:


> What iPhone 5?!


you know what I mean, the latest incarnation of the iphone, iphone 5, iphone 4GS, 4G, 4S, whatever name its going by :thumb:

i was just taking my cues from the thread title to make life easier


----------



## Leemack

I agree, this is not an iphone vs Android war.

I have had an Iphone from the first gen and my fave out of all of them was the 3GS (Got rid of the 4 due to the signal issue)
I now have a HTC desire HD and love it. If they had changed the IP4 design I would be buying an Iphone.

Wondered how long before the VS argument would start :wall:


----------



## SteveyG

It is pretty disappointing that they didn't change the case. My partner was looking to get one, but didn't like the design of the iPhone 4, so now she's a bit stuck.



Mick said:


> you know what I mean, the latest incarnation of the iphone, iphone 5, iphone 4GS, 4G, 4S, whatever name its going by :thumb:
> 
> i was just taking my cues from the thread title to make life easier


Don't worry I knew what you mean, I'm just trolling... :doublesho


----------



## SteveTDCi

i'm glad i got the iPhone4 free with my tesco vouchers


----------



## silverback

i see the isheep (not a pop at anyone on this thread by the way) all around the globe have formed,defending the emperors new phone :lol: dear god.i have said it before and i will say it again, apple could take a **** in tinfoil,roll it up and sell it as a necklaces pendant and it would sell.the amount of people who where waxing lyrical about the i5 before they eve heard anything bt rumours is ridiculous.its almost "cult" like in its status.

im no fn of apple,or indeed full touch screen phones,but a better looking phone than the i4 doesnt exist imho.as a purely visual object its lovely,as a device would i pay to own would? would i ********.im tempted to take the galaxy s2 for a test drive though,with a 14 day orange upgrade trial.


----------



## Leemack

I agree, Iphones look the dogs and I'm yet to find a better keyboard to text/email on. My desire HD one works perfectly but the key layout is annoying


----------



## GR33N

silverback said:


> i see the isheep (not a pop at anyone on this thread by the way) all around the globe have formed,defending the emperors new phone :lol: dear god.i have said it before and i will say it again, *apple could take a **** in tinfoil,roll it up and sell it as a necklaces pendant* and it would sell.the amount of people who where waxing lyrical about the i5 before they eve heard anything bt rumours is ridiculous.its almost "cult" like in its status.
> 
> im no fn of apple,or indeed full touch screen phones,but a better looking phone than the i4 doesnt exist imho.as a purely visual object its lovely,as a device would i pay to own would? would i ********.im tempted to take the galaxy s2 for a test drive though,with a 14 day orange upgrade trial.


I agree, and im one of them :lol:

They're marketing department must be one of the best in the world, and all these "leaked" photos, messages etc in the build up to product releases, im 99% sure Apple release them to stir the pot.

They're marketing really is out of this world :thumb:


----------



## GR33N

Showshine said:


> I agree, Iphones look the dogs and I'm yet to find a better keyboard to text/email on. My desire HD one works perfectly but the key layout is annoying


My dads got a Desire HD, he was ready to smash it until they released a software update for it and now hes over the moon with it :thumb:

I think if the Desire HD and the iPhone4 had been the same price though, he'd have have an iPhone.


----------



## Avanti

gr33n said:


> My dads got a Desire HD,* he was ready to smash it until *they released a software update for it and now hes over the moon with it :thumb:
> 
> I think if the Desire HD and the iPhone4 had been the same price though, he'd have have an iPhone.


I think many people feel that way when they 1st have a smartphone, I remember getting my Satio sim free, and within less than 24hrs was gonna smash it up, once used to the way things work, I find it a great handset as are other smartphones, the iphone 4 is the 1st iphone that semi appealed to me and the 4s has me semi drooling, however when I compare it back to the SE xperia ray, other than the dual core processor, they practically are the same handset feature and spec wise.


----------



## Leemack

Lol

They are very smashable when first used :lol:


----------



## Gruffs

rovex said:


> Anything. Its just small. It also doesnt conform to any conventional movie or picture dimensions making black bars a requirement to see the full image. This further reduces the size of any displayed image, or forces cropping.


Wanna watch a movie? Get something appropriate. This is a phone, it has to be hand-held and fit in a pocket. The limitations of the device are due to it's required function.



rovex said:


> Oh dear i-fans are touchy arent they.
> 
> This isnt about 'Apple products', its about the iPhone specifically. I was hoping for more choice in the marketplace, but this isnt improving my choice, its the same old same old.
> 
> I was hoping for more, it drives competition, but really this is pathetic. Yes i despise iOS, again i was hoping for something new, but there is nothing in iOS 5 that android doesn't have, or WP7 mango does more interestingly.
> 
> The problem is, if you are immune to iOS' charms its got nothing. To restricted for me, even jailbroken. No customization, iTunes tied, for me at least rather unattractive. Sure elements are more intuitive than Android, but id happily suffer Androids few interface 'novelites' to get the rest, which is far better.


isn't iOS in more than just the iPhone? Then it's product*s*.

I'm not an i-fan or an i-sheep or whatever you want to call me.

They just do what i want, when i want them to and go together well. The only thing that annoys me is porn is harder to find without Flash.

I've been there with Nokia, SE, Motorola, LG etc. They all have poor software for the computer and lack any sort of smoothness to their integration.

Yes, I'm locked in to Apple. But, I'm locked into a system that works well. Deliberately staying out a system that works and using one that i have to program myself to get it to work like an Apple system just to say 'I'm not locked in' seems a bit obtuse.

You despise iOS - fine. The thing is. None of us care.

Surely the thing that sets the iPhone apart from the competition is iTunes and the App store.

This update doesn't really appeal as it doesn't move them on. The iP4 is fast enough and the resolution is fine for the kind of videos you would watch on it. Full on films are too much for a small device whatever the resolution.


----------



## silverback

I don't own anything "apple" but I was tempted by the ipod,but in the end the prohibitive nature of its software was just too much to bare,an it does tend to take over your pc with Itunes,safari an quicktime updates all the time. They should relabel it the "iphone poor s" (see what I did there lol) but seriously,all this hype an expectation with live streams an grand unvailings an this is what they have to offer lol. Poor show apple,very poor show.

An why in the name of god would you want any phone to be bigger than an iphone 4 ? There a bloody brick as it is.


----------



## Minus8

silverback said:


> I don't own anything "apple" but I was tempted by the ipod,but in the end the prohibitive nature of its software was just too much to bare,an it does tend to take over your pc with Itunes,safari an quicktime updates all the time. They should relabel it the "iphone poor s" (see what I did there lol) but seriously,all this hype an expectation with live streams an grand unvailings an this is what they have to offer lol. Poor show apple,very poor show.
> 
> An why in the name of god would you want any phone to be bigger than an iphone 4 ? There a bloody brick as it is.


To use an iPod you don't have to download Safari or Quicktime, like most Windows downloaders these days they just come as recommended products.

You don't even have to take on iTunes if you don't want it, there are other programmes that can update an iPod :thumb:


----------



## NickTB

Gruffs said:


> Wanna watch a movie? Get something appropriate. This is a phone, it has to be hand-held and fit in a pocket. The limitations of the device are due to it's required function.
> 
> isn't iOS in more than just the iPhone? Then it's product*s*.
> 
> I'm not an i-fan or an i-sheep or whatever you want to call me.
> 
> They just do what i want, when i want them to and go together well. *The only thing that annoys me is porn is harder to find without Flash.*
> 
> I've been there with Nokia, SE, Motorola, LG etc. They all have poor software for the computer and lack any sort of smoothness to their integration.
> 
> Yes, I'm locked in to Apple. But, I'm locked into a system that works well. Deliberately staying out a system that works and using one that i have to program myself to get it to work like an Apple system just to say 'I'm not locked in' seems a bit obtuse.
> 
> You despise iOS - fine. The thing is. None of us care.
> 
> Surely the thing that sets the iPhone apart from the competition is iTunes and the App store.
> 
> This update doesn't really appeal as it doesn't move them on. The iP4 is fast enough and the resolution is fine for the kind of videos you would watch on it. Full on films are too much for a small device whatever the resolution.


*cough* extreme tube, xvideo, youporn, Red Tube,*cough*


----------



## Rob_Quads

silverback said:


> i see the isheep (not a pop at anyone on this thread by the way) all around the globe have formed,defending the emperors new phone :lol: dear god.i have said it before and i will say it again, apple could take a **** in tinfoil,roll it up and sell it as a necklaces pendant and it would sell.the amount of people who where waxing lyrical about the i5 before they eve heard anything bt rumours is ridiculous.its almost "cult" like in its status..


Its interesting that this gets rolled out virtually every time that a new Apple product gets released be it a laptop or phone etc.

So far the only complaint I have heard from anyone wanting the new iphone is that is not in a new form factor. If they have put it in a new case everyone would be saying its a good step up from the IP4, New Chip, New Graphics, Much better camera, better battery life.

Apple never have led the way in hardware (bar the Retena maybe), they always release up to the date hardware which is reliable and combined with a soldi reliable OS.

You also have to remember that the mobile market has changed massively in the last few years. Yes there may be the HTC X that is going to be better than it released soon but the fact is its easier for HTC to release 1 top of the range phone and if it goes wrong its not a problem as they have 100 other phones out there to take the can of a failure. This is not the case with an Apple phone. It has to be 100% reliable (Lets not talk about the Antenna Gate) and fit the mould for the population for the spec chasers that go for the HTC X


----------



## Avanti

NickTB said:


> *cough* extreme tube, xvideo, youporn, Red Tube,*cough*


The guy is correct, on other devices entertainment is better catered for than on the apple, not just adult stuff, youtube on the apple is annoying, there is some filter activated and a lot of items do not show on a search, to the other poster suggesting about the lack of integration to the pc, I use SE PC Suite and find that better than the others as things like calendar etc can be updated without fuss and has always been that way.


----------



## NickTB

Avanti said:


> The guy is correct, on other devices entertainment is better catered for than on the apple, not just adult stuff, youtube on the apple is annoying, there is some filter activated and a lot of items do not show on a search, to the other poster suggesting about the lack of integration to the pc, I use SE PC Suite and find that better than the others as things like calendar etc can be updated without fuss and has always been that way.


I find youtube ok, apart from the UI. If you use classic view it's fine, if you use the built in app it has a confusing interface. I must admit, this whole thing with Adobe confuses me. Is it purely down to Steve Job's refusal to do business with them? I can only see it harming sales TBH


----------



## anthonyh90

will be a good upgrade to people moving from the 3GS but there is not enough in there to tempt me to change from my current handset, maybe next time.

apparently with flash they refuse to use it as flash is a closed sytem and is controlled by adobe whereas HTML5 which they use is open.
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

also flash has major technical drawbacks and is poor on device that rely on touch rather than a mouse


----------



## jamest

anthonyh90 said:


> apparently with flash they refuse to use it as flash is a closed sytem and is controlled by adobe whereas HTML5 which they use is open.
> http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
> 
> also flash has major technical drawbacks and is poor on device that rely on touch rather than a mouse


Whereas their whole system is closed to everyone else.

HTML5+JS is still limited somewhat from what you can do in Flash, although that is improving.

But Flash does have a few problems on touch devices and have often had to go back to a desktop PC to do something that is in Flash on my phone as I can't proceed using my phone.


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## Avanti

NickTB said:


> I find youtube ok, apart from the UI. If you use classic view it's fine, if you use the built in app it has a confusing interface. I must admit, this whole thing with Adobe confuses me. Is it purely down to Steve Job's refusal to do business with them? I can only see it harming sales TBH


On you tube for instance I was looking for a music track, on the apple device all it will return is live concerts, yet on the other devices with the same BB connection, a whole different list of results are returned, that said I'm not a fanbouy or hater, was keen for the announcment though, only as others have been holding back with releasing their offerings, great thing from my perspective is that apple are banging on about cameras (which is my main objective for a multi device), which could mean the camera battle will ignite once more, as panasonic now have a Lumix 13.1mp and there is talk of 16mp, but it's not all about megapixels, I just want a xenon flash


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## bjarvis2785

oooh i do love these threads 

For all those that have shown disappointment in the 4S could i just ask (I know most wont answer truthfully), If they had redesigned it and called it a iPhone5 would you be saying what you're saying now, would you be having a pop calling it a 'half release' etc?

I think not... so, baring the name (which quite frankly is the most ridiculous argument ever!) theres the design. Why re-design a phone that pretty much everybody thinks is beautiful and near perfect in every way (if we want to be picky then they have actually redesigned it... you think the GSM & CDMA works together without a redesigned antenna? )

So, that's the name and design thing out the way, all that's left is to upgrade the hardware. Oh look, they did that! 
Faster CPU, faster GPU, more RAM, bigger storage options, better camera... i really don't see what else they could've done.

Yes on paper, side by side with the latest Android phone the specs are only the same and not always better - but use both the devices and i can pretty much guarantee the iPhone will work better, more fluid, easier etc etc

As for the iOS supposed limitations - it's only limited if you don't want to (for whatever reason) use iTunes and the related apple products.
I can do far more with my iPhone and Apple setup than i have ever been able to do by using a mix of other branded hardware.

For example, my contacts and calendar are automatically pushed across my iphone, ipad and the wife's ipad.
With iOS5 i can read a book on my phone then pick up where i left off on my ipad, same with imessage.
I can pick up any of those previously mentioned devices and stream my music/video/pictures to my TV/home audio devices effortlessly.
There's so much more, but i won't bore you.

Although it's possible to do these things using other devices it's nowhere near as easy or seamless, and in the majority of cases until you have used a setup like this you just don't realise how great it is.

anyway, i'll stop now because i'm in fear of sounding like an 'i-sheep'


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## bjarvis2785

anthonyh90 said:


> will be a good upgrade to people moving from the 3GS but there is not enough in there to tempt me to change from my current handset, maybe next time.
> 
> apparently with flash they refuse to use it as flash is a closed sytem and is controlled by adobe whereas HTML5 which they use is open.
> http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
> 
> also flash has major technical drawbacks and is poor on device that rely on touch rather than a mouse


Steve Jobs explains the reasoning behind them not using Flash in an interview he did with All Things D - http://allthingsd.com/20100607/steve-jobs-at-d8-the-full-uncut-interview/

In fact, he explains a lot aout other things too - a very good watch IMO


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## Spuj

NickTB said:


> I find youtube ok, apart from the UI. If you use classic view it's fine, if you use the built in app it has a confusing interface. I must admit, this whole thing with Adobe confuses me. Is it purely down to Steve Job's refusal to do business with them? I can only see it harming sales TBH


Not sure if you watched any of the keynote last night, but it is pretty apparent that nothing can harm their sales at the momement. The level of growth that Apple are going through is incredible.


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## anthonyh90

tbh i think them keeping the same external design was slightly expected. the release cycle tends to be, new phone design i.e iPhone 3g then improve the internals i.e 3gs. same has happened again with the 4 and 4s.


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## Gruffs

NickTB said:


> *cough* extreme tube, xvideo, youporn, Red Tube,*cough*


Much obliged.

You forgot *cough*xshare*cough*. 

The touch screeen makes one handed browsing so much easier too.


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## PaulN

Am i the only person not to be suprised by the 4s coming before a larger facelift 5.....

The only thing suprises me is why not release the 4s June 2011 then get the 5 ready for june 2012. Pull in the cash on a slightly better 4 first.

It could be they were holding out for a 5 which id guess is at final developement, it took longer than they thought, hence the delay then final decision to release a 4s to keep the customers happy. 

I agree 3Gs iPhone owners will love the new 4s so we have a split between 3-4 iPhone owners like me and 3s-4s owners like my father in law who will upgrade for sure.

This whole release date frenzy is pretty sad IMO I really like my iPhone and iPad but not that much!

Cheers

PaulN


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## bjarvis2785

PaulN said:


> Am i the only person not to be suprised by the 4s coming before a larger facelift 5.....
> 
> The only thing suprises me is why not release the 4s June 2011 then get the 5 ready for june 2012. Pull in the cash on a slightly better 4 first.
> 
> It could be they were holding out for a 5 which id guess is at final developement, it took longer than they thought, hence the delay then final decision to release a 4s to keep the customers happy.
> 
> I agree 3Gs iPhone owners will love the new 4s so we have a split between 3-4 iPhone owners like me and 3s-4s owners like my father in law who will upgrade for sure.
> 
> This whole release date frenzy is pretty sad IMO I really like my iPhone and iPad but not that much!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> PaulN


Don't forget, part of the 'delay' in release was to pull the iphone and ipad apart.
They were too close to each other in terms of releasing new models.
It left a lot of people with a choice, iphone or ipad. 
By splitting them up this way it means people can buy one then have 6 or so months to save for the new version of the next one.
Looking at how Apple go to market and offer their devices, that would've been a huge part of the decision in changing the release date - rather than manufacturing delays like others have said.

I can't believe people have suggested Apple have just launched the 4S because the 5 wasn't ready.
You really think 3 months ago somebody at Apple said "oh, sh*t we're not going to have this ready in time... we better get busy on a half arsed version of it!" ... i think not.

Apple know what they're doing.
People complained about the 3GS and the iPad 2 not being 'full updates' but look at how they did.

Also, think about the life cycle of the devices.
The average joe goes and gets an iphone contract for 2 years... that means that in 2 years time when it comes to upgrade time he'll see a significant difference in terms of features, rather than the slightly upgraded models we see if we upgrade year on year.


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## Leemack

Trouble is.

I had an ip4, My son has an ip4, his gf has an ip4 and 6 of his mates have ip4's. Most on here are dissappointed as are me and the others mentioned in this post.
People all over the internet are dissappointed so the facts are there for all to see.

It is a big dissappointment that Apple have released a phone that looks exactly the same as the one apple released 15 months ago.
I am a HTC user now but was very interested in going back to apple but this has turned me away.


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## Rob_Quads

Its amazing to see how many young people change thier expensive phones every year. It truely is a fashion item first and foremost


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## Matt.

I dont know what to do now. 

I either wait for the IP5 or get a IP4S. 

If i wait, whats the best option to do? Go onto PAYG? Currently paying £30 for 200 mins unlimited texts and 500mb data. I was getting 600 mins but that deal ended. 

What would work out cheaper?


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## anthonyh90

what phone you got at the minute?


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## Matt.

A Satio thats 28ish months old.


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## bjarvis2785

Showshine said:


> It is a big dissappointment that Apple have released a phone that *looks exactly the same* as the one apple released 15 months ago.
> I am a HTC user now but was very interested in going back to apple but this has turned me away.


Is that really such a bad thing? 
I can't understand that arguement, every other aspect of the phone has been upgraded, yet because it looks the same it's a disappointment? 
Most people will agree that it's a fantastic looking device. So why change?

I guess _*Rob_Quads*_ is right when he says they're a fashion item to a lot of people

Obviously, it's a personal thing :thumb:


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## Leemack

It's just not enough. 

They haven't changed everything mate and tbh I hate the look of the ip4 and wish I had my 3GS.

It is personal preference though


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## jamest

bjarvis2785 said:


> Is that really such a bad thing?
> I can't understand that arguement, every other aspect of the phone has been upgraded, yet because it looks the same it's a disappointment?
> Most people will agree that it's a fantastic looking device. So why change?
> 
> I guess _*Rob_Quads*_ is right when he says they're a fashion item to a lot of people
> 
> Obviously, it's a personal thing :thumb:


Because it is a fashion item to a lot of people. If people look at your phone and on first glance can't tell whether it is an iPhone 3G, 3GS, 4 or 4S, their status will be unknown.

A lot of the Apple fans have been saying that the iPhone 4 is the best looking phone since it's release then moan when Apple keep with the same look.


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## anthonyh90

Matt. said:


> A Satio thats 28ish months old.


well the iphone 4s will definately be a massive upgrade and something worth looking at. like what other have said it probably won't be till this time next year when we see the iphone 5 in order to seperate release dates of the iPad and iPhone. if you decide to keep the satio then payg or a sim only deal is the way to go. for £10 i get 250 mins, unlimited texts and unlimited data


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## ardandy

I'm keeping my ip4 as I can't see a good reason/feature that makes me upgrade.

I went from 3G to 4 when it came out as the camera/hd video was something I really wanted as the little one was dues back then. I now have loads of v good quality vids of her growing up from birth.

The sky sports app means I cannot change from Apple as no one else does it.


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## SteveyG

bjarvis2785 said:


> Is that really such a bad thing?
> I can't understand that arguement, every other aspect of the phone has been upgraded, yet because it looks the same it's a disappointment?
> Most people will agree that it's a fantastic looking device. So why change?


It used to look fantastic, but it's looking old now and could do with a facelift, especially as there are some better looking phones on the market.


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## jamest

I'm just wondering how many people who are slating Apple for bringing out the iPhone 4S rather than the 5 would be drooling over the phone if Apple had marketed it as an iPhone 5.

This is no different to 3G -> 3GS and there were a lot of people who weren't too happy with that.

Given the time frames I wouldn't of thought the iPhone 5 will see the light of day until this time next year. Some of these key features that have been introduced are basic Android features.

I imagine iPad 3 may be announced in the spring or at the very least an update to the iPad 2, especially as Amazon appear to have got 250,000 pre-orders for their tablet in 5 days which isn't a direct competitor but most people won't want 2 tablets.


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## Gruffs

Not to mention the cost of a new external design on top of the internal.

Where do you go from glass and metal? Crystal and Platinum? Do people actually realise how much it costs to put in a production line capable of producing a product of the quality of the iPhone in the kind of numbers required?

PS3s, Xbox360s, iPhones, most of these are sold at a loss and the peripherals make the money. Would you buy an xbox if it cost £1000? I think not. Yet you will pay £250 for the console and pay £50 per game and buy 15-20 games over the lifetime of the device.

It hasn't been updated as it is probably just not financially viable to do so.

The internals are done first, then paid for with sales, then the outside. It makes sense. You could update the outside but then they would be accused of guilding the lily.


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## Matt.

anthonyh90 said:


> well the iphone 4s will definately be a massive upgrade and something worth looking at. like what other have said it probably won't be till this time next year when we see the iphone 5 in order to seperate release dates of the iPad and iPhone. if you decide to keep the satio then payg or a sim only deal is the way to go. for £10 i get 250 mins, unlimited texts and unlimited data


I have a iPod touch so i know exactly what the IP4 is like.

What network are you with for £10 a month? Also is it possible to use my old contract number?


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## anthonyh90

Matt. said:


> I have a iPod touch so i know exactly what the IP4 is like.
> 
> What network are you with for £10 a month? Also is it possible to use my old contract number?


i'm currently with giffgaff. it runs on and is owned by o2 network. it runs as a payg network but you can use your credit to buy goodybags which give you so many minutes and texts to use each month. 
http://giffgaff.com/goodybags

edit: and yes you can keep your old number


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## jamest

Gruffs said:


> PS3s, Xbox360s, iPhones, most of these are sold at a loss and the peripherals make the money. Would you buy an xbox if it cost £1000? I think not. Yet you will pay £250 for the console and pay £50 per game and buy 15-20 games over the lifetime of the device.


Xbox 360 only took a few years till they were actually making a profit on the console as well. Manufacturing processes get better and they work out better deals and ways to cheapen parts of the system while keep the retail price the same.

Not sure about the PS3 as the Blu-Ray part of it was fairly expensive, but I am sure that has gone down to close to break even if not gone in to profit.

Apple will be in a similar scenario considering the amount of memory chips they bought from Samsung. Samsung had to tell some of it's other customers they weren't getting any or reduced shipments as Apple had ordered millions of chips which they weren't expecting.

Apple keep their profits keeping people using their hardware in their closed system. It's not as easy to get your iPhone working with Windows or Linux but it is dead simple to connect it to your Mac desktop/laptop and once people know that they start buying all the hardware they would buy from other manufacturers from Apple and Apple have suddenly made a fair amount of money from one person and have pretty much locked them in to their ecosystem.


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## SteveyG

Gruffs said:


> Where do you go from glass and metal? Crystal and Platinum? Do people actually realise how much it costs to put in a production line capable of producing a product of the quality of the iPhone in the kind of numbers required?


I think you'd be surprised how cheap and easy it is to update the electronics and production of it, the costs are minimal in that aspect. Foxconn can get stencils made the same day, and pick and place is all done from CAD. Procurement of components is probably the most time intensive part.

There are better materials that can be used for the front glass than what is currently used with superior scratch and impact resistance, although they did improve it in the iPhone 4



Gruffs said:


> Would you buy an xbox if it cost £1000?


Probably would actually... :doublesho


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## Leemack

Well I wish Microsoft had have spent a bit more money on the console as mine broke 3 times with the RROD


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## anthonyh90

its all to do with economies of scale. the more of something that you order, the bigger discounts you get. this is also helped as jamest said by improvements to manufacturing processes which make each part cheaper to manufacture. also factored in is r&d costs which get more and more spread the more products sold, if microsoft spend £50m on r&d they have sold over 50m xboxes so costs for that work out a less than £1 per unit. same for iPhones


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## SteveyG

Showshine said:


> Well I wish Microsoft had have spent a bit more money on the console as mine broke 3 times with the RROD


The new one is fine :thumb:


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## Leemack

Still shouldn't have to pay for a new Xbox because for years the older one is a pile of cr4p :thumb:


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## SteveyG

Showshine said:


> Still shouldn't have to pay for a new Xbox because for years the older one is a pile of cr4p :thumb:


You know you want the one with the MW3 skin on it :argie:


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## Chicane

bjarvis2785 said:


> ...Why re-design a phone that pretty much everybody thinks is beautiful and near perfect in every way


In that case, there was nothing wrong with the 3GS' looks, so why change it?



bjarvis2785 said:


> ...Faster CPU, faster GPU, more RAM, bigger storage options, better camera... i really don't see what else they could've done.


A bigger screen for one? It is part of the hardware, after all. Plus it was one of the major things people had been expecting. The iPhone has had the same 3.5" display since the launch of the original iphone in 2007. The resolution may have improved, but a 4" screen has been long overdue by about 2 years in my opinion.

So yes I am disappointed. The iP4 isn't exactly slow, and the 5mp camera with 720p video isn't exactly crap, In fact, I'd have been less disappointed if they'd revealed a phone with the same spec hardware but with refreshed design and bigger screen.

The way I see it is that there has been a build up of anticipation among people this year as apple were expected to make up for last years fiasco with antennagate and the delay of white iP4, so when the big moment comes and it turns out that it looks just the same but a bit faster, you can only expect disappointment.

What the hell have the design department been doing the last 18 months?


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## -Raven-

3GS user here, I'll be upgrading to 4S for sure! I don't care what they call it, I need a new phone lol!

I am interested in the new samsung galaxy S2 though, but worried it might be **** compared to the iphone. I just love how easy and logical my iphone is to use. Can't forget about itunes either.....


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## Leemack

SteveyG said:


> You know you want the one with the MW3 skin on it :argie:


You read my mind

As a true cod fan, the MW3 one is very very appealing :argie:


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## Gruffs

SteveyG said:


> I think you'd be surprised how cheap and easy it is to update the electronics and production of it, the costs are minimal in that aspect. Foxconn can get stencils made the same day, and pick and place is all done from CAD. Procurement of components is probably the most time intensive part.


Exactly. Internals are easy. That's why you do them first. Doesn't mean they are cheap though.

External redesign is much more extensive. RE-design, re-tooling (for components and assembly). All of which take time. and money. How people can reasonably expect a 15 month complete product cycle is beyond me.

How old is the Xbox 360?

What's the facelift period for cars?

And, there is no cross-platform phones for Apple either hence why the touch is the same.

Economies of scale.


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## ardandy




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## PaulN

iPhone 4s could have started a new market in personalising your iphone. No longer does new iPhone look new so maybe its going to be gold plating, chrome plating etc.

Im not just talking covers either.


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## anthonyh90

^^^:lol::lol::lol:


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## Shinyvec

I am approaching the end of my contract and was thinking about the S2 but the new IP4s has got me wondering what to do as I like it and the latest addons look cool. I have never had anything Apple related so this would be my first gadgit from them so do you think I would be doing the right thing if I got the IP instead of the S2 and can you use the IP like a Touch and put it a docking station and listen to music


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## mercury

Shinyvec said:


> I am approaching the end of my contract and was thinking about the S2 but the new IP4s has got me wondering what to do as I like it and the latest addons look cool. I have never had anything Apple related so this would be my first gadgit from them so do you think I would be doing the right thing if I got the IP instead of the S2 and can you use the IP like a Touch and put it a docking station and listen to music


I've just bought this Sony SRSGU10IP 2 Ch iPod & iPhone Compatible Docking: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics off amazon for 49.99.

Plug my Galaxy S into it with a 3.5mm male to male jack and away to go:thumb:

They retail at 99.99 in the Sony shop,sound is very good.

Edit

just seen this has been removed from Amazon but available from other sellers


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## Derekh929

I have now decided to wait for the iphone 5 so long wait ahead as got ipad two can't see benefit over my iphone 4 , i think i will not be the only one thinking that way , but you can't match the user friendly products IMHO


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## Chicane

Derekh929 said:


> I have now decided to wait for the iphone 5 so long wait ahead as got ipad two can't see benefit over my iphone 4 , i think i will not be the only one thinking that way , but you can't match the user friendly products IMHO


i would wait too, but only if it was a june release next year. trouble is we'll never know until they announce it a couple of weeks beforehand


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## ianFRST

16 months is nearly a record for me and a phone so far 

so if the 5 isnt released for another year, ill set an unbeatable new record i think :lol:


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## Rob_Quads

Most expect Apple to go back to the yearly releases of the iPhone. They needed to move the release date as it was too close to the iPad, they want people to be buying both not thinking one or the other


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## SteveyG

Move the iPad date then :thumb:


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## Supermega

Rob_Quads said:


> Most expect Apple to go back to the yearly releases of the iPhone. They needed to move the release date as it was too close to the iPad, they want people to be buying both not thinking one or the other


The 3GS was a year after the 3G wasn't??


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## jamest

Supermega said:


> The 3GS was a year after the 3G wasn't??


3GS is seen as a minor update to the 3G like the 4S is to the 4.


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## Rob_Quads

Supermega said:


> The 3GS was a year after the 3G wasn't??


Yup

2G - June 29, 2007
3G - July 11, 2008
3GS - June 19, 2009
4 - June 24, 2010
...
4S - October 14, 2011

i.e. its been a yearly release each time except this one which was to align it with the other iPods and move it away from the iPad release


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