# Norfolk Police release Biker Footage



## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

Fatal collision shown , discretion advised.






RIP


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## stuartr (Mar 11, 2014)

Holy cow.. He was going way too quick though


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## V6dan (Feb 7, 2014)

very local to me and not at all nice to watch. rip


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## SystemClenz (Oct 31, 2008)

Very sad & powerful and sends a clear message that more needs to be done regarding viability or driver training, and was that a foreign licence plate? The driver must feel awful.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Was he going too fast? Yes, but that doesn't make him at fault IMO. Whilst speed inevitably contributed to his death I just wish there were less muppets on the roads who don't look properly when pulling out or in this case pulling in to a road. He would have been quite clearly visible and they would have had time to judge his speed too. 

Very sad in any event, RIP David.


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

Tragic event, but im sorry, at 100mph he's travelling at 140 meters per second, that is far too fast & I doubt the car driver had chance to spot him, before making the fateful manoeuvre and there is no way the car driver would've known the biker was doing 100mph+ either.

Tragic, yes, avoidable, totally. He took his chances and paid the price.

There was the other biker on the cat & fiddle that nearly took his own life riding too fast that posted his helmet cam footage on you tube the other week. He was lucky he survived & go banned


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## fatdazza (Dec 29, 2010)

If he was indeed approaching the junction at 97 mph, then in my personal view he was dancing with the devil, and we know what can happen it you do that.

So sad the loss of life, but as to who is a fault, the rider has to bear responsibility.


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

For those who haven't yet seen the video, yes, you see the collision, but thankfully not the aftermath of this tragic accident.


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

The black clio driver should be hanged for pulling across like that.

Understood, the biker was travelling irresponsibly fast on what looked a pretty busy road too, but that was a clear example of no spatial awareness imo.

Very hard hitting end showing the collision.
Pretty much instant death, wouldn't have known much about it.

Very sad. But avoidable in two respects.


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## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Both at fault and not easy to live with for the Clio driver.


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## smegal (Aug 14, 2009)

The motorbike overtook a car, the car turning would have seen the car a long way away and thought it was all clear. A waste of a life down to the motorcyclist riding too fast. Hopefully the video will raise awareness for drivers and motorcyclists


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Totally tragic. 

Bikers keep telling car drivers they don't understand the dangers of riding a bike, yet bikers apparently do know the dangers and still don't adjust their behaviour. 

A lot of people find it very hard to judge speed and distance.

They'd probably thought that was a safe distance for making that turn not accounting for the fact the bike was going too fast. 

If the bike wasn't breaking the speed limit then it would have likely been a fine exit of the road. 

Should should be the Clio to take into account that the bike was breaking the speed limit by a huge margin? 

I don't think so, but the Clio driver still must feel awful.


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## Fuzz573 (Sep 18, 2013)

Really sad for all parties involved, the should have looked better but the excessive speed of the bike was the major part in this. Sad waste of what seemed a genuinely decent young guy. Im sure everyone has been guilty of a bit speed at some point but unfortunately luck was not on his side that day.

Rip David, if this video helps save one life its worth the families suffering in deciding whether to release it or not


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## rob28 (Nov 7, 2008)

smegal said:


> The motorbike overtook a car, the car turning would have seen the car a long way away and thought it was all clear. A waste of a life down to the motorcyclist riding too fast. Hopefully the video will raise awareness for drivers and motorcyclists


That's pretty much the way I see it. A sad day for all involved but the biker took unnecessary risks and paid the ultimate price.


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

Sad news but I cant help but think if he wasnt speeding he would of carried on and the Clio would of made the turn.
Ive nearly done the same actually with a speeding bike. The biker didnt stay around when I got out the car as he was clearly going to fast


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## nick_mcuk (Jan 4, 2008)

Just my 2p's worth on this....whos fault that crash was is neither here nor there, the biker was riding way to fast and what surprised me was that its not like he had been riding for 5 minutes it was pretty much since he was 16. If you pause that video as he approaches the junction I can spot at least 5 danger points that would have caused me to reduce my speed considerably.

The rider seems to not be reading the road ahead and his hazard perception is all but zero.

The car driver should not have pulled out but we all know how bulky modern cars are and I ca almost bet the bike got lost behind the A pilar couple that with the speed and boom you have a fatal accident.

I would not wish this on anyone and its very sad but I strongly believe that the car driver cannot be the scape goat for this fatal RTA.

I am an ex biker of many many years so i have seen the tarmac from both sides...bikes are dangerous but if you make sure you have the extra training etc you can protect yourself better.


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## polac5397 (Apr 16, 2014)

agree with roberdon tragic but avoidable, to fast for the road


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## R7KY D (Feb 16, 2010)

It is always tragic when someone loses their life , But even I can't help but think if he wasn't going so fast then that video wouldn't exist , Some peoples judgements of a closing/incoming speeds are horrendous even at normal legal speeds let alone someone who is speeding , IMO the majority of the blame would be with the bike and none with the car , At the end of the day the guy on the bike lost his life because he was going too fast if he wasn't going that quick then the clio would have made that turn maybe a few minutes earlier and wouldn't have been on the same road at the same time of that bike .

All the ingredients were there and the "perfect storm" was brewed , Sad waste of a life


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

SystemClenz said:


> Very sad & powerful and sends a clear message that more needs to be done regarding viability or driver training, and was that a foreign licence plate? The driver must feel awful.


I was thinking the same thing with reference to the plate.


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## Steve (Mar 18, 2014)

However the fault. Him going to fast or the clio just pulling out its a horrific loss of life.


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## Leo19 (Mar 9, 2011)

I watched this last night and it wasn't pleasant to watch. Very sad for the family but good on them for allowing the footage to be released, it might save someone's life.
Not getting into whose fault it was etc but in my experience as a biker I've had so many people just pull out in front of me, you have to approach these kind of situations and adjust your speed almost expecting someone's going to pull out or unfortunately these tragic accidents can happen. RIP


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## Nico1970 (May 15, 2014)

The loss of life is terrible, regrettable and, sadly in this case, wholly avoidable.

Speed _per se_ does not kill but rather inappropriate speed for the conditions. As noted above, there were a number of observations / hazards which were either not considered or wilfully ignored by the rider.

Unfortunately we / society / government do not fully educate our road users. The woefully inadequate testing regime in this country needs a fundamental overhaul with more emphasis on 'practice' and mindfulness and the identification of hazards. Just because you can drive / ride / walk, doesn't of itself mean you are fit to go on the public highway.

It won't change overnight, but a good starting point is that the reading, digesting, understanding and practicing of _Roadcraft_ and _Motorcycle Roadcraft_ should also be mandatory requirements for all road users.

[For those (particularly younger) members who don't know what _Roadcraft_ / _Motorcycle Roadcraft_ is, google it and treat yourself to a copy - it could save your / someone else's life]


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## Yowsah (Sep 1, 2014)

Nico1970 said:


> The loss of life is terrible, regrettable and, sadly in this case, wholly avoidable.
> 
> Speed _per se_ does not kill but rather inappropriate speed for the conditions. As noted above, there were a number of observations / hazards which were either not considered or wilfully ignored by the rider.
> 
> ...


I agree with this wholeheartedly. I took the advanced driving test when I was in my twenties. Part of the preparation was to become well acquainted with the police manual 'Roadcraft' and therefore learn the police system of car control. Up until then I thought I was a good and safe driver. After the experience of taking the test I realised all the errors that I had been making.

This young biker tragically lost his life by a combination of the bike being driven at excessive and dangerous speed and by the driver of the car not having good forward observation. One of the main faults of car drivers is not having good forward observation. The idea is to observe the road and any potential hazards from the point that you can see furtherest away from where you are. In that way you can give yourself time to prepare for the conditions. Too many drivers only pay attention to what is going on immediately around them. All of this also applies to bikers. The road is a dangerous place and we have to do all we can to prevent as many deaths occurring.


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## theshrew (May 21, 2008)

He was riding to fast in that vid. Car should have seen him anyway. 

As a biker its junctions that i hate the most. Always very cautious when i see a car waiting to pull out etc. 

TBH the worst part of biking is people not seeing you.


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

the biker would have seen the car in the middle lane about to turn also, he had time to adjust his speed etc as he knew he was going way to fast he could have over took that car at way less of a speed. as said some peoples perception of speed isnt the best and judging a bike is even harder as well as your surroundings at 100mph byt the time the driver has made his checks that bike would have been in their face.

Very tragic, i hope it does send a message out and saves lives, if that video was of another person and that lad had seen it before he went off on his would it have saved him? personally think peeps who speed at 100mph wont listen to anyone or anything


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

Kerr said:


> Totally tragic.
> 
> Bikers keep telling car drivers they don't understand the dangers of riding a bike, yet bikers apparently do know the dangers and still don't adjust their behaviour.
> 
> ...


I'd have to agree with this.

I find it ironic that his mother is making more of a plea for road users to be more perceptive of the road, and almost brushes off the fact that her son had been driving too fast.

I believe the biker, unfortunately, has put himself in that position. I cannot for the life of me understand why you would overtake just before a junction where potentially people are coming out of and in to.

To get a real perception of the incident, we really needed to have a dashcam in the clio to see what the driver saw and how little time they had to react.

Interestingly, if you count the time passing from when he starts to overtake the silver car to the moment of impact, it's not very long at all.

I feel sorry for all parties involved. The horrible thoughts of what if's!


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## Rayaan (Jun 1, 2014)

Horrific video to watch. Not nice at all. I feel more sorry for the family as it has directly affected them the most as losing someone is not a nice thing to experience at all. 

He was going very fast and speed does not kill. Its the "stopping" that kills. Going from 100mph to 0mph when you hit the floor under a second has immense forces on the body. A quick calculation would show its the equivalent of getting hit by a train when standing still!

I think the overtaking was the risky part for me. As the above poster said, there is very little time between overtaking the silver car and the impact which leaves very little time for the clio driver to react. 

The clio appears to have a foreign number plate on it. Therefore it may have been left hand drive in which case the left windscreen pillar may have been a lethal blindspot. Cant really tell from the video too well though

Edit - Just saw the video again. It looks like the paintwork on the bike is Silver! This would actually explain why the bike couldn't be seen after overtaking the silver car. It blended in with the background.


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## StuH (Apr 14, 2007)

It's on UK plates, its the light from the bikes headlight that you can see reflecting when the car hits.

It's poor driving from the Clio there's no doubt about that and I think the charge is correct, but the speed the biker travels is just insane. There's plenty of warning signs alerting you to the fact a junction is ahead and that's not including the signs themselves. If you're going to travel at those speeds through a busy junction you really are chancing it. Hopefully someone will take note and think twice.

I'd also like to point out that advanced motoring is well worth doing.


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## Exotica (Feb 27, 2006)

UK plates


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

What an absolute mess that car is! That really shows the speed of the motorcyclist!


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## Gaffa22 (Aug 24, 2014)

I know that junction well so yes I agree he was going way to fast.
To the car driver the gap possibly looked big enough and had the biker been doing 60mph it probably would have been.

I ride a Firebalde and a Blackbird but there's no way i'd go that fast through that junction

There are places you can ride fast safely but junctions are not the place.

Thoughts and condolences to his family.


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## MagpieRH (May 27, 2014)

Seems the video has caused a lot of discussion (in general, not just on here). Some people criticising the police for releasing it; they're unrepentant as they say if it saves one life it's worth it.

I have to say it's quite a shocking video even though you know what's coming. Hard-hitting videos like this are sometimes the only way to get through to some people so I'm fully in favour of it.

We can guess and speculate on what the driver saw or didn't see, and whether if he'd been riding at a legal speed he'd have avoided the collision, but at the end of the day we just don't know. I know what I think about it but I wasn't involved so I don't feel right making assumptions and suggestions.

All I will say is bikers ride fast, we all know this. Bikers are also much more vulnerable than us car drivers. The two combined can be lethal, as in this case. I know I'd hate to be that car driver, whatever the facts of the case - they're probably constantly thinking "But what if I'd taken a different route that day?" or "What about if I'd overtaken that other car a minute earlier?".


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## LSherratt (Dec 27, 2011)

Awful to watch and very hard hitting. A bit personal (and apologies) but I am not a biker and have no interest in bikes, but what would have caused his death? Would he have flown off the bike over the handle bars and the impact on the ground where he landed have killed him or what? Once again, apologies but I'm just curious.


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## Naddy37 (Oct 27, 2005)

LSherratt said:


> Awful to watch and very hard hitting. A bit personal (and apologies) but I am not a biker and have no interest in bikes, but what would have caused his death? Would he have flown off the bike over the handle bars and the impact on the ground where he landed have killed him or what? Once again, apologies but I'm just curious.


Most probably a broken neck.


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## MagpieRH (May 27, 2014)

LSherratt said:


> Awful to watch and very hard hitting. A bit personal (and apologies) but I am not a biker and have no interest in bikes, but what would have caused his death? Would he have flown off the bike over the handle bars and the impact on the ground where he landed have killed him or what? Once again, apologies but I'm just curious.


From the groaning post-collision, I'm guessing no. Probably multiple broken bones and internal bleeding at a guess. Not pleasant, and certainly painful.


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

Something that I've just noticed is the while the video looks like it's in good daylight, all the cars coming the other way have their headlights on as does the silver car he overtakes. It looks like this happened soon before dusk, so light was fading, and the Clio driver will have seen the headlights of the silver car, and most likely registered the headlight of the bike as the car too. There looks to be plenty of time for the Clio to cross the road in front of the silver car. If it had happened in good light, the silver car would most likely not have had it's headlights on, but the biker would have, making him stand out a lot more. 


If the rider had been obeying the speed limit he'd still be here.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

I'll add my tuppence worth...

Pause it at 2:47-2:48 as the biker does his final overtake. Bike is visible to the clio at this point. Collision doesn't happen for 6-7 seconds. There was more than enough time for the Clio driver to see the bike which had lights on and with the short wheelbase of a bike would have been quite obviously flickering.

All this talk of the Clio driver not being able to see or not having enough time to see the bike is complete ********.

Yes the biker is going too fast but he deserves a few points on his licence not death.

The Clio driver should be banged up in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure that this was the incident where the Clio driver didn't see the bike OR the car behind it FFS!

If the clio driver had opened his eyes the biker would still be alive.

EDIT: http://www.suffolk.police.uk/newsandevents/newsstories/2014/september/hardhittingvideolaunched.aspx


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

Nanoman said:


> If the clio driver had opened his eyes the biker would still be alive.


Maybe the Clio driver wasn't expecting a bike to be travelling at 160% of the speed limit


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Jem said:


> Maybe the Clio driver wasn't expecting a bike to be travelling at 160% of the speed limit


Didn't you read... he didn't see the bike or the car by his own admission. If the biker went past at 60mph he'd more than likely still be dead.

By your logic if the guy was going faster he'd have got past the junction before the idiot in the clio turned up... So does that mean slowing down killed him?


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

Nanoman said:


> Didn't you read... he didn't see the bike or the car by his own admission. If the biker went past at 60mph he'd more than likely still be dead.
> 
> By your logic if the guy was going faster he'd have got past the junction before the idiot in the clio turned up... So does that mean slowing down killed him?


My logic is perfectly sound. Approaching a staggered junction at 97mph when you can clearly see a car is in the ghost island and maybe about to cross your path is asking for trouble. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the car driver is blameless, far from it, but some of the blame has to be apportioned to the bike rider.


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## hardyd44 (Mar 31, 2014)

I have driven motorbikes, lorries(not trucks) and cars for over 35 years now (jeez I am getting old).

The car driver did not see him (easily done - let the first person who says they are a perfect driver and never make a mistake, speak up), but at the end of the day the bike rider ended up dead (RIP) whilst speeding.

I have always been taught defensive driving (in other words treat everyone else on the road like they are trying to kill you) and on a bike you don't have a big metal overcoat to look after you. So when approaching any junction you just ease up or prepare to stop just in case.

it is the same in a lorry for opposite reasons because you can't stop quickly (44 tonnes of inertia) even if you wanted to, just because you would win that argument does not make you feel any better.

Not trying to disrespect any one , and god I feel sorry for his family


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

From the comments on this thread from people who know the road and area, the junction was a known accident blackspot

So a biker taking liberties doing 97mph is totally blameless and it's all the Clio drivers fault. Boll0x.

If that was a boy racer doing the same speed in a car, causing the accident the clio driver would be dead & there'd be total condemnation.

The biker knew the risks he chose to ignore them by not obeying the speed limit.

A different time of day, a different speed he maybe alive now, albeit having serious life threatening injuries. He may of been paraplegic or quadraplegic, but still alive.

Again, tragic accident, sequence of events, but wholly avoidable, needless, tragic loss of life


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## macca666 (Mar 30, 2010)

"The 38-year-old had been travelling at about 97mph at the time of the collision. While he was travelling above the speed limit the driver admitted to police in interview that he had not seen David, nor a car behind the motorcycle, prior to the collision."

Above is the quote from the Suffolk police website. Yes its stupid doing 97 but how many on this forum can honestly say they've not done that speed??

The driver admitted to not even seeing the car the bike overtook so how much of a contributing factor was the speed as the car certainly wasn't doing 97 yet the driver didn't even see him...


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

We can pull it to pieces all night long, at the end of the day, the car pulled across the biker, and the biker was going too fast..........two wrongs don't make a right.

The sad thing is, statistically a motorcyclist will die on UK roads tomorrow


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

just watched the incident at the junction second by second, looks to me like......

2.49 just passed the silver car, clio wasn't in the junction, 2.50 clio had entered the right hand turn lane, from what looked like a fairly fast line of traffic coming the other way, just as it had got to 2.53 the clio had pulled out to go right, which i believe he was still moving and didnt actually stop at all not know what speed that bike was doing, struck at 2.54 exactly which i still think may have actually have been under 1 sec.

cant see how he couldn't have seen either bike or car tbh its such a straight bit of road, more likely failed to realise just how fast the bike was going


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

*For thous that have only watched the video and not read the full story and why the family have made this public......

*

4 September 2014

Hard-hitting footage of a fatal collision in Norfolk has been released by police in a bid to get motorcyclists and drivers to think seriously about road safety.

The dramatic film, captured on a headcam fitted to the rider's helmet, shows the moment a car crosses into the path of Norwich motorcyclist David Holmes who was killed on the A47 at Honingham in June last year (2013).

David's story, a video featuring clips including the collision as well as an interview with his mother Brenda, has been produced by police with the full support of all his family, who hope the campaign will prevent further deaths.

Viewers of the video are warned that it contains content which some may find distressing, but it does not show any graphic images of the rider during or after the collision and they are given the option to refrain from viewing.

The 38-year-old had been travelling at about 97mph at the time of the collision. While he was travelling above the speed limit the driver admitted to police in interview that he had not seen David, nor a car behind the motorcycle, prior to the collision.

Chief Inspector Chris Spinks, head of the Norfolk and Suffolk Roads Policing Unit, said the video was hard-hitting and understood public opinion would be divided.

He said: "The video is shocking; however this is the reality of fatal collisions. The emotions people may experience after seeing this video can only touch the surface of those feelings that families and friends go through when losing a loved one in this way.

"The consequences of fatal collisions are devastating for all involved and as such our message though education has to reflect this. I firmly believe this footage is powerful enough to make riders and drivers think about their behaviour on the road; and most important of all, change it for the better.

"I understand releasing such footage will divide opinion; David's family are in full support of the material being released and we've worked closely with his mother Brenda to ensure this is achieved in an effective and sensitive way.

"The causes of collisions are almost always the result of driver or rider behaviour. Motorists, be it on two wheels or four, need to take responsibility for their actions. I would urge riders and drivers to think about their behaviour and what changes they could make to improve their own safety and that of others on the road.

"I'm confident this campaign will make people take time to think about their actions on the roads and allow David's family to take something positive out of this tragic event.

"The aim of releasing this footage is not to achieve agreement from the public; it's about delivering messages around road safety and how deaths can be prevented. I welcome the fact it will create debate and, in my view, this will get people talking about road safety; their actions behind the wheel or on a bike and it will go some way to achieving our aims."

David had been travelling from King's Lynn towards Norwich when the collision happened at the crossroads with Woods Lane and Berrys Lane. The driver of the Renault, who admitted not seeing David or the car travelling behind, was prosecuted in April. While David was travelling above the speed limit, a number of other drivers had seen both the motorbike and the other car.

Ch Insp Spinks added: "We know from the footage that David was travelling up to 100mph. Regardless of the speed of the bike, the car manoeuvre should not have been attempted. Clearly, he was taking a risk and has paid the ultimate price. The majority of bikers ride responsibly however, I'm sure many will relate to the riding style seen in this video. We know motorcyclists are a vulnerable group and this sad case is a reminder to all roads users to be alert to what is going on around you and to lower your speed."

David's mother Brenda, a retired nurse who lives in North Walsham, said she hoped that by telling her story, she could help prevent another family going through the heartache they had and continue to experience.

She said: "I want to be involved in this campaign because I feel something positive can come out of his loss. If we can prevent one accident; one family going through what we have been through then David would not have died in vain.

"I know he rode fast that day, he loved speed but he also loved life. This hasn't been an easy thing to do but I just hope that somebody benefits from the warning; that people slow down and take time to look for bikes. I'm not a perfect driver, I've done silly things sometimes and I've been lucky to get away with them, David wasn't lucky, the driver wasn't lucky."

Brenda has seen the footage and said one of the saddest things for her is that he could see what was going to happen. "He must have had a moment of fear at the end of his life; I find that very hard to deal with. David was the most wonderful son and his loss has left such a void in our lives. Being without him has changed everything; our lives ended that day and I can truly say I know the meaning of heartache, it really does hurt; it's a physical pain."


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Myself and my good lady wife were making our last journey on our bike to see friends in london with the news she was 4 weeks pregnant with our first child.... this 19 years ago.

We did not even get out of the town travelling 15-20 miles an hour in good light and visibility this was midday in summer and the twin headlights were both on on the bike.

Car pulled straight across me and because of the speed i did just manage to miss it but the bike angle was now unrecoverable especially at slow speed bike went down and wife flew straight over my head and face planted into the road... Thank heavens it was a full face helmet.

However only jeans on despite leather jacket and boots and gloves left with 6 inch scar from opened knee.

Some people are simply not aware of there surroundings once there in the tin can they are switched off until they reach there destination.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Why are bikers always innocent

'Think bike'

Why don't they 'think car' before cutting drivers up, sitting in blind spots, tail gating, overtaking on blind corners etc?

Had he not have been driving like an idiot he would have had time to move out the way or the car to have seen him

Bikers really annoy me how they're always the innocent ones yet then brag about doing 160mph here there and everywhere


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

I haven't seen anyone saying the biker is innocent/blameless.



Kimo73 said:


> Why are bikers always innocent
> 
> 'Think bike'
> 
> ...


So 5+ seconds isn't enough to see a vehicle coming towards you on a straight road?

You can always tell people that don't have a bike license.

before cutting drivers up - do you mean being small and nimble and pissing you off coz they get past you?
sitting in blind spots - very silly thing for a biker to do I agree
tail gating - If you mean the overtaking position then that's where they're meant to be. If you mean tailgaiting they'll quite probably have a much better view of the road than you will in your car and will react to stuff before you and they'll be on there way before you know it. Letting them past usually stops them tailgaiting too.
overtaking on blind corners - being able to use all of the road, being able to speed up and slow down quicker than a car and being more nimble means bikes can safely overtake on corners that car drivers can't. Deal with it.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Nanoman said:


> I haven't seen anyone saying the biker is innocent/blameless.
> 
> So 5+ seconds isn't enough to see a vehicle coming towards you on a straight road?
> 
> ...


Tailgating is dangerous as it makes a driver spend more time looking in their mirror worrying about where the biker is than looking forward where they're going

By cutting up I mean they hop in and out traffic when in queues on a roads and you have to slam your brakes on when they just pull in with no sign or warning what so ever

No I don't have a bike licence as I'd hate to be associated with the idiotic driving of most of them


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

This is the other biker on the cat n fiddle that nearly killed himself riding like a pratt

Watch "Biker's high speed near miss" on YouTube
Biker's high speed near miss:


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Kimo73 said:


> Tailgating is dangerous as it makes a driver spend more time looking in their mirror worrying about where the biker is than looking forward where they're going
> 
> By cutting up I mean they hop in and out traffic when in queues on a roads and you have to slam your brakes on when they just pull in with no sign or warning what so ever
> 
> No I don't have a bike licence as I'd hate to be associated with the idiotic driving of most of them


If I've got someone tailgaiting me I increase the gap between me and the vehicle in front and let them past at the first opportunity - usually this is very easy if it's a bike. Why would anyone spend more time looking in their mirror?

Hopping in and out of traffic is one of the benefits of having a bike. If you've got a normal gap between you and the car in front a bike can fit in there no problem without anyone having to slam on your brakes. I can't imagine a situation where brakes would have to be slammed on just because a bike overtook you. I also can't understand why a bike would randomly pull in unexpectedly.

At 56 mph even if you're only leaving a 1 second gap between you and the vehicle in front that's 25 metres. A bike can fit in there easily and have plenty room to slow down from a regular overtake. Even at 30 mph and leaving a 1 second gap that's a 13 metre space for a bike to fit into.

I'm very confused. Am I missing something?

It's a bit strange that you're regularly being cut up an tailgated by bikers so much so that you have to slam on your brakes and stuff. I'm wondering if your attitude towards bikes affects your driving style when bikers are around possibly coupled with a possible lack of understanding about just how different things are when you're on a bike (much better visibility, much quicker acceleration/deceleration and being able to fit into smaller gaps) could be causing a problem.


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

^^^

Yes, because 'only a fool breaks the 2 second rule' end of

Couldn't care less if it's a car, bike, van, bus or whatever a 1 second gap is half the recommended gap

Yes a bike is more manoeuvrable and quicker, but the biker would be in serious trouble if the car/truck etc couldn't stop as quick.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

james_death said:


> Myself and my good lady wife were making our last journey on our bike to see friends in london with the news she was 4 weeks pregnant with our first child.... this 19 years ago.
> 
> We did not even get out of the town travelling 15-20 miles an hour in good light and visibility this was midday in summer and the twin headlights were both on on the bike.
> 
> ...


I'd say at least half of drivers are completely oblivious to their surroundings.

Every single roundabout or junction they come to, absolute dead stop regardless, then pull away and as soon as they've entered the roundabout, stop dead, again.


----------



## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

I rode bikes for a long time and I had a few mates who got splattered - they were all responsible for their own injuries / death by way of going so fast that they couldn't stop in time when the unexpected happened. 

Fact / truth call it what you will. 

You always have to be thinking "What if?" 

I was lucky, had one or two near misses and got away with it and learnt from it. 

Bikes need to be treated with caution and respect because of the power to weight ratio they have, coupled with the poor braking performance.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Andyg_TSi said:


> ^^^
> 
> Yes, because 'only a fool breaks the 2 second rule' end of
> 
> ...


Yes. If people are driving properly there's a 30m gap at 30mph and a 50m gap at 55mph. Plenty room for a bike making progress. Get into the gap and make it a 2 second gap between you and the car in front. Then move back up to overtaking position as soon as appropriate. Actual delay to any cars you're passing while doing this is zero. Damage to Mr IHateBikes pride may be substantial though.

I'd like to think most bikers would have better observations than your average car driver so would react in plenty time to alert a vehicle behind or take action to avoid getting rear ended by a dimwit. I try and avoid sitting at the back of a queue on a bike as getting rear ended is surprisingly common due to the fact a halfwit might not notice you behind another vehicle.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Nanoman said:


> *Yes. If people are driving properly there's a 30m gap at 30mph and a 50m gap at 55mph. Plenty room for a bike making progress*.
> 
> I'd like to think most bikers would have better observations than your average car driver so would react in plenty time to alert a vehicle behind or take action to avoid getting rear ended by a dimwit. I try and avoid sitting at the back of a queue on a bike as getting rear ended is surprisingly common due to the fact a halfwit might not notice you behind another vehicle.


surely though, if a bike goes into that gap thats left, they're halving that "safe" distance and putting themselves at risk?


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

bidderman1969 said:


> surely though, if a bike goes into that gap thats left, they're halving that "safe" distance and putting themselves at risk?


Check the edited post. Surely a cabby with a dashcam would understand that tho.

The problem occurs when ejits don't like you going into their gap and start driving like dicks. A bike (and a car for that matter) can make safe progress and cause you zero delay if you just chill out and drive properly.

This is a major issue off the motorways and dual carriageways for cars as well. No one leaves the right gap. No one lets people in the gap. Only the most observant and/or fastest cars can overtake so queues build up everywhere.

Some academic did a study and found that it's linked to the great British queuing mentality and that people overtaking are deemed nasty queue skippers just like in the lunch queu at school. They're bad people who must be stopped!


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

Nanoman said:


> Check the edited post. Surely a cabby with a dashcam would understand that tho.
> 
> The problem occurs when ejits don't like you going into their gap and start driving like dicks. A bike (and a car for that matter) can make safe progress and cause you zero delay if you just chill out and drive properly.
> 
> ...


I find it quite strange that someone can pass a driving test after say 10 lessons & immediately be let loose on the motorway network without any motorway driving tuition.

For me it's high time to split the 'learning to drive'/ driving test into 2 stages.

Stage 1 - keep as it is but this enables you to drive on any roads except 3 or more lane motorways

Stage 2 - once passed stage one, compulsory motorway tuition to teach people lane discipline, awareness & general common sense.

It'll cut out the moronic middle lane hogging idiots who make the roads more congested as everyone moves right to overtake when the left lane is empty & create free flowing better, safer highways for all.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Andyg_TSi said:


> ^^^
> 
> Yes, because 'only a fool breaks the 2 second rule' end of
> 
> ...


I stick to the 2 second rule but when overtaking they seem to always swing in right infront of my car rather than safely in the gap further up

Bikers just annoy me in general with how idiotic most of them drive tbh


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## SKY (Sep 25, 2011)

Andyg_TSi said:


> I find it quite strange that someone can pass a driving test after say 10 lessons & immediately be let loose on the motorway network without any motorway driving tuition.
> 
> For me it's high time to split the 'learning to drive'/ driving test into 2 stages.
> 
> ...


Would never work as it would be difficult to police. Many A roads turn into motorways on the same stretch. I do agree that the driving syllabus is outdated

Also people only hog the middle lane because they want to do the sped limit or thereabouts the slow lane is full of lorries doing 56 mph and the fast lane is full of people doing between 80 - 90 mph


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## MagpieRH (May 27, 2014)

Kimo73 said:


> I stick to the 2 second rule but when overtaking they seem to always swing in right infront of my car rather than safely in the gap further up
> 
> Bikers just annoy me in general with how idiotic most of them drive tbh


That last line has become apparent from some of your earlier posts. There are some terrible bikers out there, often with L plates on the back because they've only had to take CBT and then loose on the roads. There are also many terrible drivers out there - as above, stopping at a clear junction because they haven't looked ahead; driving 40 everywhere; not seeing the flashing blue lights in their rearview mirror; pulling out in front of another vehicle then not really accelerating and causing the other vehicle to slow; I could go on.

Point is, it's not 'bikers' you hate, in the same way 'drivers' don't drive me up the wall (metaphorically) - it's the selfish and the stupid of each. That's balanced out overall by some rally good drivers and riders, and the rest of us are average - good but fallible.


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## Bulkhead (Oct 17, 2007)

I'm not going to get into the whole debate regarding bikers and drivers etc., but I personally think riding a bike made me a better driver. You are way more aware of your surroundings and vulnerability on the road. I saw this video on the BBC website earlier and most of the blame lies with the rider. The car driver is not completely blameless though as, even though the bike is travelling too fast, they should still be looking before they turn. It amazes me that the driving test puts so much emphasis on things like parallel parking, reversing around a corner and not hitting a kerb during a three point turn, and yet very little on awareness and perception that may actually safe a life, other than a bit of theory.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Kimo73 said:


> I stick to the 2 second rule but when overtaking they seem to always swing in right infront of my car rather than safely in the gap further up
> 
> Bikers just annoy me in general with how idiotic most of them drive tbh


The point I'm trying to make is that what looks idiotic to you (and what annoys you) might be perfectly safe riding. I don't believe for a minute that bikers have a habit of cutting you up on overtakes because that doesn't make sense the way a bike handles and they way they are ridden. I can imagine it happening if you're showing your annoyance by leaving a small gap or trying to block them in though. That would fit in with your slamming on the brakes point too.

And on middle lane hoggers. Most of them sit there because they're lazy selfish buggers but I do think if people made more effort to let people move from the left to the right on multi lane roads some people would be more inclined to stop lane hogging.


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

It's actually very simple with both bikes and cars. 

Other people make mistakes, so you have to be ready and able to anticipate and cope with those mistakes as much as possible. 

He wasn't, he didn't, he died. 

22 years on bikes and he rides like a knob head.


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

GleemSpray said:


> It's actually very simple with both bikes and cars.
> 
> Other people make mistakes, so you have to be ready and able to anticipate and cope with those mistakes as much as possible.
> 
> He wasn't, he didn't, he died.


Very true, people do make mistakes, which is why 97mph through that junction gave the rider very little time to react to the car pulling in front of him.


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

There are bad, irresponsible and some down right dangerous drivers around, and im sure no matter the law, the enforcement and the punishment there always will be.

They could be Driving or riding any vehicle (Piloting would eliminate weather its riding or driving)

I Pilot many vehicles ranging from man powered to vehicles that can do max 30mph to vehicles capable of 200mph.

They are varying sizes from say 5 feet to 25ft.

I see al sorts from hyper two wheeled vehicles piloted by people in shorts and t-shirt some going steady some going ballistic.

I see People on motorised two wheels in full leathers majority are courteous and responsible some pull wheelies but this in my experience is super rare & a few speed.

If a bike is filtering or even coming up for an overtake i give them as much room as i can, if safe to do so, 99.8 % will give me the same acknowledgement of appreciation and thanks as i do when im in the same position when im on two wheels.

I have seen 50cc scooters travelling side by side on a national speed limit road and a hgv overtaking them approaching a level crossing coming head on at me when i have been in the Luton.

I have seen and had happen to me vehicles pull out right infront of me wheather im in the very noticeable Luton or on One of My two wheel vehicles man powered or motorised.

I have witnessed Cars racing down a 20mph residential street doing 4 times that speed or more.

Cars going over 6 foot wide central reservations because they could not wait a few minutes for traffic.

Cars going twice the speed limit overtaking on blind crests many times.

Many vehicles breaching solid white lines.

The number of vehicle drivers on mobiles is incredibly high while driving.

There are many many irresponsible drivers on the road no matter what they pilot.

Personally i feel every driver should do a CBT where they are bodily able too, and spend 3 months limited to a 50cc scooter and learn just how dangerous the roads are and hopefully more respect for other road users.

If this was mandatory we would eventually have most drivers on the road having spent time in that very vulnerable position and hopefully more aware... you will still get some that are not going to learn or respect that having progressed to more faster vehicles and still not learned the need for observance and respect for others.

Back to the Video that started all this, the video is to make Vehicle Pilots more aware of there actions both in speed and observance or there surroundings.

As for speed you should drive within the road conditions and the limits of your vehicle, the speed limit is the maximum permissible speed its not a target speed.

People can be speeding without even realising it, say a mercedes sprinter is doing 60mph on a single carriageway ... well thats the speed limit Right... well its a good vehicle so its max speed should be 50mph.

Same Vehicle on Dual Carriageway not the 70mph limit for this vehicle as its a goods vehicle laden or empty its 60mph.

Get on a motorway and it can do 70mph as long as its not got a trailer on.


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## griffin1907 (Mar 4, 2006)

viewed by 3 million now.....

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-29084417


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## Squadrone Rosso (Aug 11, 2009)

I watched it. Grim. The biker was going way way to fast IMO. I feel sorry for the car driver as whilst partially to blame, if the biker was going legal speeds, the cross would have been very easy.

My young cousin got killed in Somerset a few years back in a head on with an ambulance fast response vehicle.


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

Squadrone Rosso said:


> I watched it. Grim. The biker was going way way to fast IMO. I feel sorry for the car driver as whilst partially to blame, if the biker was going legal speeds, the cross would have been very easy.
> 
> My young cousin got killed in Somerset a few years back in a head on with an ambulance fast response vehicle.


*So Sorry for your family loss may He Rest In Piece.*


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

Nanoman said:


> Didn't you read... he didn't see the bike or the car by his own admission. If the biker went past at 60mph he'd more than likely still be dead.
> 
> By your logic if the guy was going faster he'd have got past the junction before the idiot in the clio turned up... So does that mean slowing down killed him?


If he was riding at 60 he'd still be dead? I think not.

Bikers do not do themselves any favours at all. They want drivers to be more aware of bikers, give them more respect and generally look out for them. Trouble is bikers are making the above more difficult for drivers travelling at such speeds.

Bikers need to take a bit more responsibility for their own safety before passing the book. They also have to understand they don't have as much presence as cars on the road.

Going back to another point, you mention bikes can accelerate and decelerate quicker than cars. That doesn't change the road laws for bikers. That's like saying a zonda can do 120mph on the motorway because it can decelerate quicker than normal cars.

Any rational person cannot entirely blame the car driver, yes he didn't see him, but just calculate the distance travelled by biker and this might give you an understanding why


----------



## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

B17BLG said:


> If he was riding at 60 he'd still be dead? I think not.
> 
> Bikers do not do themselves any favours at all. They want drivers to be more aware of bikers, give them more respect and generally look out for them. Trouble is bikers are making the above more difficult for drivers travelling at such speeds.
> 
> ...


I think if a biker hit a car at 60mph it wouldn't be good.

Both of them should have been paying attention.


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## Radish293 (Mar 16, 2012)

I've done the speed differential calculation on this accident.
this assumes that two vehicles see a hazard at the same time and apply maximum braking.
The first at the speed limit 60mph the other at the riders speed 97mph.

By the time that the rider travelling at the speed limit has stopped the rider travelling at 97mph will still be doing 83 mph.

It the time taken to stop at 60 the rider doing 97 has only lost 14mph.

Rider a master of his own destiny. Sentence for the car driver harsh.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Radish293 said:


> I've done the speed differential calculation on this accident.
> this assumes that two vehicles see a hazard at the same time and apply maximum braking.
> The first at the speed limit 60mph the other at the riders speed 97mph.
> 
> ...


How is the sentence for the car driver harsh? They didn't look at all when turning for 4 or more seconds and therefore caused someone to die.

Hit a cyclist by not looking, cause their death, again, who is responsible?

The driver was in a world of their own, the biker not reading the road and being totally stupid.


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## Suba (Feb 2, 2013)

The driver was human. Everyone has 'momentary lapses of concentration' for whatever reason while driving (including police drivers having observed a few in our area).

The motorcyclist was riding at such a speed that they were unable to compensate for the drivers mistake (at 60mph they may well still have hit the car but the outcome may have been non-fatal). 

It was an horrific accident but I can't see how criminalising the car driver will help anything.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Suba said:


> The driver was human. Everyone has 'momentary lapses of concentration' for whatever reason while driving (including police drivers having observed a few in our area).
> 
> The motorcyclist was riding at such a speed that they were unable to compensate for the drivers mistake (at 60mph they may well still have hit the car but the outcome may have been non-fatal).
> 
> It was an horrific accident but I can't see how criminalising the car driver will help anything.


4 seconds lapse of concentration is momentary? Most momentary lapses are short and not liable to cause accidents, a lot of car drivers are simply oblivious, period.

If the car driver mounted a kerb or drove into a car, hit a cyclist, would that not be prosecutable for driving without due care?

At 60mph hitting a car, the bike would still be in pieces and the biker may well still be dead, hence the police pointing out this fact.

Maybe it would be different if a lorry driver hit the car driver as they crossed the road without looking.


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## Suba (Feb 2, 2013)

RisingPower said:


> At 60mph hitting a car, the bike would still be in pieces and the biker may well still be dead, hence the police pointing out this fact


The driver of the car may have misread the road and made the manoeuvre, then panicked and continued. We don't really know.

But at 60mph (still too fast for the road conditions) when the motorbike rider had seen the situation they may have been able to have reduced speed to 40mph in the time to react.

At the speed they were going they only had thinking time.

Again, how has prosecuting the driver of the car in this way helped? I'm not excusing the drivers actions, but will it stop other accidents like this? I doubt it I'm afraid.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Suba said:


> The driver of the car may have misread the road and made the manoeuvre, then panicked and continued. We don't really know.
> 
> But at 60mph (still too fast for the road conditions) when the motorbike rider had seen the situation they may have been able to have reduced speed to 40mph in the time to react.
> 
> ...


4 seconds is not thinking time.

They were driving without due care and killed someone as a result.

No, it won't stop accidents like this, idiots will be idiots no matter what you do.


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> I think if a biker hit a car at 60mph it wouldn't be good.
> 
> Both of them should have been paying attention.


The point being had he been doing 60mph the collision wouldn't have taken place


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

B17BLG said:


> The point being had he been doing 60mph the collision wouldn't have taken place


Do you have proof of this?


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## Suba (Feb 2, 2013)

RisingPower said:


> No, it won't stop accidents like this, idiots will be idiots no matter what you do.


Again - how will prosecuting the driver help?


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> Do you have proof of this?


Yes,

Did the silver Aygo car crash into the clio too?

If not, following the Aygo at the speed limit would have resulted in no collision


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

B17BLG said:


> Yes,
> 
> Did the silver Aygo car crash into the clio too?
> 
> If not, following the Aygo at the speed limit would have resulted in no collision


That's actually a very valid point!


----------



## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Suba said:


> Again - how will prosecuting the driver help?


How will prosecuting any person that causes death help?


----------



## silverblack (Jan 23, 2011)

RisingPower said:


> Do you have proof of this?


Well the car the biker overtook didnt hit the car turning right.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

B17BLG said:


> Yes,
> 
> Did the silver Aygo car crash into the clio too?
> 
> If not, following the Aygo at the speed limit would have resulted in no collision


How do you know the aygo was travelling at 60mph? The aygo looked to be a considerable way back, even if he was doing 90ish.

Assuming he was in front of the aygo doing 60, the clio was still very slow to turn.

Who's to say the clio wouldn't have almost stopped and still hit him.

Didn't the driver say they didn't see either the motorbike or the car behind?

Sure, it would have given them a lot more time to react, but just how long do they need? 10 hours to realise something is going on around them?


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

silverblack said:


> Well the car the biker overtook didnt hit the car turning right.


Wasn't the car already hit a way in front by this time?


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## Jem (Aug 10, 2007)

If the biker had been doing 200mph, be would have already been well past the junction before the Clio had even pulled into the ghost island and still be alive :thumb:


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> How do you know the aygo was travelling at 60mph? The aygo looked to be a considerable way back, even if he was doing 90ish.
> 
> Assuming he was in front of the aygo doing 60, the clio was still very slow to turn.
> 
> ...


So disregard how fast the clio turns across the traffic, concentrate on how much more reaction time and distance the Aygo and bike would have, travelling at 60 and not 97. That's fact, not assuming anything.

I would say the clio drivers hazard perception is as good as the riders in this instance.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

B17BLG said:


> So disregard how fast the clio turns across the traffic, concentrate on how much more reaction time and distance the Aygo and bike would have, travelling at 60 and not 97. That's fact, not assuming anything.
> 
> I would say the clio drivers hazard perception is as good as the riders in this instance.


This is the point I made earlier, there would have been more time to avoid an accident, not, that it absolutely would have done given how slowly and inattentively the clio was being driven.

Also, see my earlier post.

4-5 seconds is still plenty for anyone to react, hence why the driver was prosecuted.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Jem said:


> If the biker had been doing 200mph, be would have already been well past the junction before the Clio had even pulled into the ghost island and still be alive :thumb:


Quite possibly. So, does speed kill?


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## GleemSpray (Jan 26, 2014)

RisingPower said:


> Quite possibly. So, does speed kill?


Not unless you hit something...


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## silverblack (Jan 23, 2011)

RisingPower said:


> Wasn't the car already hit a way in front by this time?


Yes because the biker was doing 97mph.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

silverblack said:


> Yes because the biker was doing 97mph.


So, contrary to what you said, the aygo couldn't have hit the clio?


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> This is the point I made earlier, there would have been more time to avoid an accident, not, that it absolutely would have done given how slowly and inattentively the clio was being driven.
> 
> Also, see my earlier post.
> 
> 4-5 seconds is still plenty for anyone to react, hence why the driver was prosecuted.


I'm talking reaction time for the biker. no sooner had he yelped he had hit the car. With not even a chance the squeeze the brake.

Your talking 4-5 seconds reaction time but how much distance has the bike travelled in that distance? Almost a quarter of a kilometer.


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## craigeh123 (Dec 26, 2011)

I sold up a few years ago due to kids , I'm desperate to get another bike. This video has really played on my mind tbh it made me feel sick, it's the yelp and the thud. He shouldn't have been going that quick but trust me on a bike it's all to easy, my last bike would've seen that 97mph in 2nd gear . 
I may just do the odd Ron hallam race school no one to worry about then! RIP.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

B17BLG said:


> I'm talking reaction time for the biker. no sooner had he yelped he had hit the car. With not even a chance the squeeze the brake.
> 
> Your talking 4-5 seconds reaction time but how much distance has the bike travelled in that distance? Almost a quarter of a kilometer.


Then his reaction times were simply too slow as per the driver.

So what? What difference does that make?


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> Then his reaction times were simply too slow as per the driver.
> 
> So what? What difference does that make?


What difference does what make? That he has travelled 1/4 km in 5 Seconds?

Makes quite a difference tbh.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

B17BLG said:


> What difference does what make? That he has travelled 1/4 km in 5 Seconds?
> 
> Makes quite a difference tbh.


Why? I've done 120+ around brands?

I think you'll find other people have driven faster around brands.

What's the relevance? He could have done 200 as stated and completely avoided the clio?

So, 200 , 60 not hitting anything, which is better?

I think you'll find it's the not hitting anything bit which is relevant.


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## silverblack (Jan 23, 2011)

RisingPower said:


> So, contrary to what you said, the aygo couldn't have hit the clio?


I never said any such thing your trying to defend the indefensible.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

silverblack said:


> I never said any such thing your trying to defend the indefensible.


Guess the courts or police don't agree with you as to what caused the accident.


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> Why? I've done 120+ around brands?
> 
> I think you'll find other people have driven faster around brands.
> 
> ...


Again your not reading lol. The biker has come a long way in a short space of time. None of your points are valid without seeing a video from the drivers perspective.

They could be many reasons why the biker wasn't seen, all of which would be multiplied by speed.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

B17BLG said:


> Again your not reading lol. The biker has come a long way in a short space of time. None of your points are valid without seeing a video from the drivers perspective.
> 
> They could be many reasons why the biker wasn't seen, all of which would be multiplied by speed.


He didn't notice the aygo travelling much slower behind either.


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> He didn't notice the aygo travelling much slower behind either.


You probably wouldn't either as it would of been much further up the road.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Bikers are ***** 

Deal with it


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Kimo73 said:


> Bikers are *****
> 
> Deal with it


Yeah and all drivers are perfect.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

B17BLG said:


> You probably wouldn't either as it would of been much further up the road.


100 yards, isn't much further.


----------



## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

RisingPower said:


> Yeah and all drivers are perfect.


Thanks


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> 100 yards, isn't much further.


It is if your doing the correct speed in the first place


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Kimo73 said:


> Bikers are *****
> 
> Deal with it


This thread is about the tragic death of a young man leaving behind a grieving family who have bravely allowed the video footage to go public to raise awareness, it certainly has had that effect here with a difference of opinions but being argued in a civilized way (only just).

You have come in here now on no less than four occasions with the same sweeping statement as to your thoughts about bikers, disrespectful and inflammatory, maybe that's your sole purpose, if it is, message understood, now leave alone.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

S63 said:


> This thread is about the tragic death of a young man leaving behind a grieving family who have bravely allowed the video footage to go public to raise awareness, it certainly has had that effect here with a difference of opinions but being argued in a civilized way (only just).
> 
> You have come in here now on no less than four occasions with the same sweeping statement as to your thoughts about bikers, disrespectful and inflammatory, maybe that's your sole purpose, if it is, message understood, now leave alone.


Footage in which they portray the car to be the one in the wrong and say that bikers are fine how they are?

Yeah ok


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## Rayner (Aug 16, 2012)

craigeh123 said:


> I sold up a few years ago due to kids , I'm desperate to get another bike. This video has really played on my mind tbh it made me feel sick, it's the yelp and the thud. He shouldn't have been going that quick but trust me on a bike it's all to easy, my last bike would've seen that 97mph in 2nd gear .
> I may just do the odd Ron hallam race school no one to worry about then! RIP.


My Uncle's the same, always had bikes till kids came along so he sold them. He also had a small accident with a similar story to this video, car pulled out in front of him, thankfully he was only doing 40 and saw the car quickly, slammed the brakes on and ended up sideways against the car. Only a few minor injuries to his leg and arm.

He still loves bikes and now gets his fix on a track ever now and then.


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## griffin1907 (Mar 4, 2006)

2 more killed on local Norfolk roads this weekend, involved in a collision with another vehicle.


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## bidderman1969 (Oct 20, 2006)

Bikes?


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## griffin1907 (Mar 4, 2006)

@Bidderman - yep......

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/road_cl...rbikes_and_a_vehicle_near_haddiscoe_1_3760630

Although BBC News now says no other vehicle involved.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Kimo73 said:


> Footage in which they portray the car to be the one in the wrong and say that bikers are fine how they are?
> 
> Yeah ok


Funny. The video everyone else saw laid a portion of blame on the biker for his ridiculous speed but also laid significant blame on the driver who killed him by cutting across his path without seeing the bike or the car behind it.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Nanoman said:


> Funny. The video everyone else saw laid a portion of blame on the biker for his ridiculous speed but also laid significant blame on the driver who killed him by cutting across his path without seeing the bike or the car behind it.


Bcuz speeding

Anyway obviously people have learnt seeing as more bikers have been killed this weekend

Now take off your tinted glasses


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

At the end of the day if he wasnt speeding hed still be here. By the looks of his speed he should of stayed behind the aygo


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Kimo73 said:


> Bcuz speeding
> 
> Anyway obviously people have learnt seeing as more bikers have been killed this weekend
> 
> Now take off your tinted glasses


Ya, the aygo was going so fast too.

Take off your moron glasses.


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

Well if the aygo was going to fast then the biker should definitely of NOT overtaken


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

possul said:


> Well if the aygo was going to fast then the biker should definitely of NOT overtaken


You did watch the video, right?


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

Shocking footage but as others have said he was going far too fast for those roads considering how busy they were at the time.

Sad outcome at the same time, for both the biker & the Clio driver.


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

Did you not state the aygo was travelling to fast? If so then the biker should not overtake

I cant help but think this story would be different if it was a car that was speeding


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

possul said:


> Did you not state the aygo was travelling to fast? If so then the biker should not overtake
> 
> I cant help but think this story would be different if it was a car that was speeding


I don't think he knows what he is stating other than trolling tbh


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

possul said:


> Did you not state the aygo was travelling to fast? If so then the biker should not overtake
> 
> I cant help but think this story would be different if it was a car that was speeding


Maybe there wasn't enough sarcasm conveyed that couldn't be easily deduced by looking at the video.

Have you seen a car being t boned at 60? I don't see why whether its a biker or car driver it's any different.

Both the car driver and the biker were completely oblivious to anything around them, irrespective of speed.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I thought the bike overtook the aygo then hit the clio ? The aygo moved to the left to let the bike through.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

possul said:


> At the end of the day if he wasnt speeding hed still be here. By the looks of his speed he should of stayed behind the aygo


If he was travelling faster he'd still be here too because he'd be past the junction before the idiot in the clio turned without looking.


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## tich (Aug 16, 2014)

Its awful feel sorry for all involved especially the bikers parents who have lost a son to this accident hope this sends a message to everyone regarding road safety


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