# Karcher K4 Full Control change of gun!



## Rob D 88

Hi all,

I am looking at changing me Karcher spray gun. I have a K4 full control and I recently purchased a different lance with some better nozzles but unfortunately this did not work properly.

The gun was well under powered and was no where near as effective! I was looking a maybe changing the gun to Mosmatic one but don't want to spend a fortune if the jet wash isn't going to give the maximum pressure!

Has anyone else changed guns on a full control Karcher?

Thanks Rob


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## steelghost

Having done a fair bit of reading and research into this topic I'll try to summarise what I've learned.

The "power" of the pressure washer has to do with the pressure that is developed at the nozzle. You may be aware that pressure comes about due to resistance to flow. The pump in the PW provides the flow, the nozzle provides the resistance.

Too *little* resistance (ie a nozzle orifice that's too big) = not enough pressure, and a PW that doesn't seem very powerful.

Too *much *resistance (ie nozzle orifice too small) and the pump will struggle, it may stop and start intermittently if the machine detects too high a back pressure. No use either!

What you need is the right size of nozzle - erring slightly on the side of caution (better to lose a little pressure rather than put unneeded strain on the pump). Have a look at this (PDF link) for a bit more detail and a handy lookup table. According to the Karcher product page (and specifically the specifications on page 14 of this PDF), your K4 is rated for 6.3 litres per minute at 11MPa, or 110 bar.

Using the table linked above, on the 110 bar column the flow rate of 6.3 litres per minute would suggest a nozzle between a 0.25 and 0.3. Note that none of this has anything to do with the _gun_ you are using - it's all about the size of the nozzle. It depends on the lance you're using but you might be able to change the nozzle size (they are frequently available separately, sometimes with a quick release and sometimes with a thread).

If you can post a picture of the new lance & gun, I can try and suggest the best way to update the nozzle. It would also be well worth going back to the place you bought it from and asking them what nozzle size it is. My guess is that you've got a 0.35 or 0.4 that is reducing the pressure and hence effective power of your machine.


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## Rob D 88

steelghost said:


> Having done a fair bit of reading and research into this topic I'll try to summarise what I've learned.
> 
> SteelGhost...
> 
> Thank you for replying!
> 
> You are right, but I did do some research into this before hand too. What I found was that a Karcher K4's should be at about nozzle 0.40, this is what I got so you are right. However. I did speak with the shop and he did say the K4 is normally around a 0.40 nozzle as well.
> 
> He could be wrong and it looks like he is, I got a quick release nozzle set up so I might just order a 0.30 or 0.35 and see if it helps. They are only a fiver!
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Thanks Rob


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## steelghost

Hi Rob - if you have a QR nozzle setup then you have a very quick way to test / resolve the situation. I would go to a 0.30 nozzle in the first instance - based on the flow / pressure table, I think a 0.35 would still be a bit big.

Worth noting you can get a set of all the angles for £12, might be better value than buying individually even if you only use the 15, 25 and 40 degree ones.


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## Rob D 88

steelghost said:


> Hi Rob - if you have a QR nozzle setup then you have a very quick way to test / resolve the situation. I would go to a 0.30 nozzle in the first instance - based on the flow / pressure table, I think a 0.35 would still be a bit big.
> 
> Worth noting you can get a set of all the angles for £12, might be better value than buying individually even if you only use the 15, 25 and 40 degree ones.


Yep,

I will order some later today!

Thanks SteelGhost, I will let you know how I get on!


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## bigbruiser

Hi rob could post some pics of your gun and how attach from the hose to the gun please?


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## Rob D 88

bigbruiser said:


> Hi rob could post some pics of your gun and how attach from the hose to the gun please?


Hi I can't get some pics right now but it's the Karcher quick release system. Standard on all fairly new Karchers.

Thanks


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## Rob D 88

So today I got to try out the lance with the new size nozzles.

I can confirm Steelghost was 100% correct. The lance with the 030 nozzles was fantastic and back to full pressure!

Makes the pressure washer better to use as the fan angle is perfect. I got 0,15,25 & 40... 

Thanks SG.


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## steelghost

Good stuff, glad you got it sorted. Btw the larger nozzle is a useful thing to have when you want a bit more of a gentle rinse rather than FULL POWAR!


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## bigbruiser

Rob what brand of gun did you get? i got the Jinkang High Pressure Washer Gun off amazon but as soon as let off the trigger the K4 pump pulsed on and off and did not sound well then water started spraying all over from the brass fittings, sent it back


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## Rob D 88

bigbruiser said:


> Rob what brand of gun did you get? i got the Jinkang High Pressure Washer Gun off amazon but as soon as let off the trigger the K4 pump pulsed on and off and did not sound well then water started spraying all over from the brass fittings, sent it back


At the minute I have the standard Karcher K4 Full Control.

I use a stainless steal lance with a quick release end.

I think you might have the opposite to me. You might have a nozzle that is too small!

What size did you get? I know have 030!

Thanks
Rob


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## bigbruiser

Rob D 88 said:


> At the minute I have the standard Karcher K4 Full Control.
> 
> I use a stainless steal lance with a quick release end.
> 
> I think you might have the opposite to me. You might have a nozzle that is too small!
> 
> What size did you get? I know have 030!
> 
> Thanks
> Rob


Thanks mate mine came with 5 nozzels tried the 25 then went on to use the 40 does the same with them both so I was thinking it the short gun maybe :thumb:


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## steelghost

bigbruiser said:


> Thanks mate mine came with 5 nozzels tried the 25 then went on to use the 40 does the same with them both so I was thinking it the short gun maybe :thumb:


Rob is talking about the size of the hole in the nozzle rather than the angle of the fan jet :thumb:

It might have been the gun, or the nozzle, hard to check now you've sent it back :lol:


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## Rob D 88

bigbruiser said:


> Thanks mate mine came with 5 nozzels tried the 25 then went on to use the 40 does the same with them both so I was thinking it the short gun maybe :thumb:


No mate. You got it all wrong.

That's just the fan angle. 25 degrees and 40 degrees.

Look at the nozzles and you will see a number wrote on the stainless bit. That will be the angle and the orifice size (hole in the end). I think yours might be too small for your pressure washer.
What pressure washer do you have? Make and model?

Thanks

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## steelghost

bigbruiser said:


> i got the Jinkang High Pressure Washer Gun off amazon but as soon as let off the trigger the *K4 pump* pulsed on and off and did not sound well...


Sounds like BB has a K4 as well - I'm assuming he's got one of these, it doesn't specify the orifice size
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jinkang-Pressure-Washer-Power-Nozzles/dp/B06XV12W8K

It does mention


> Flow rate 3.0 GPM nozzles at 3600 PSI


 which if I converted it into bar and litres per minute, I could look at the table and see what nozzles it *should *have had.

Still could have been a bad gun, though.


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## bigbruiser

sorry guys you are both right I was looking at the fan degree ahhh lol. yeah that's the right gun steel and yup same k4 as you Rob. so i need bigger then 3.0gpm is that right?


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## steelghost

Assuming your K4 is the same specs as Rob's, you'll want 0.30 nozzle size (which is actually the correct nozzle size for a wide range of machines).

Problem is a lot of the cheaper hardware doesn't actually state the nozzle size so you have to hope or reverse engineer it from the specs they give and hope they're accurate!

Something like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pressure...mm-Wash-Gun-/281229199895?hash=item417a910a17 with the right adapter to whatever hose end you've got, and a set of the nozzles I linked to in post #4 should do you right.


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## Rob D 88

steelghost said:


> Assuming your K4 is the same specs as Rob's, you'll want 0.30 nozzle size (which is actually the correct nozzle size for a wide range of machines).
> 
> When you get a chance see what is wrote on the nozzle bit as stated before. If it is 030 then I am pretty sure it could be a dodgy gun!
> 
> I am debating whether to get this one. I do love a gadget and it might well be a waste of money but it looks good and makes it that bit easier and better to do the job.
> 
> https://obsessed-garage.myshopify.c...ic-spray-gun-wand-package?variant=33583399363
> 
> Thanks


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## cleslie

Rob D 88 said:


> steelghost;5404321
> [URL said:
> 
> 
> 
> https://obsessed-garage.myshopify.com/collections/pressure-washing/products/mosmatic-spray-gun-wand-package?variant=33583399363[/URL]
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> The obsessed garage solution will work with the amount of testing Matt put into it!
Click to expand...


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## steelghost

He's basically found some high end manufacturers (ie Mosmatic, MTM Hydro) and cherry picked their catalogues to put together a well thought out package, but I don't really understand what he's done that's quite so ground breaking other than pick out nice versions of pretty standard hardware. It's all stainless and so on, which is fine, but unless you're washing down commercial kitchens or dairies or something, it's not actually _needed_. I take my hat off to the guy, he's identified his target audience (well off folks with nice cars who want a "proper" pressure washing package without having to think about it) but unless you really want to spend that money, I think you can get most of the benefits for quite a lot less money (and I will back up that assertion properly later!)


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## steelghost

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRESSURE...AILINGWORLD-/182692303936?hash=item2a894f5440 - Suttner trigger gun with stainless swivel
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-3-8-P...Set-200-Bar-/330738035552?hash=item4d0185eb60 - QR for the hose & gun
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-M22-...Karcher-etc-/331937556926?hash=item4d490529be - allows female side of QR to join to an M22 hose termination
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-3-8-...Karcher-etc-/330690417763?hash=item4cfeaf5463 - 3/8 BSP male to male - joins male side of QR to the swivel
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pressure...-Male-B-S-P-/272665811100?hash=item3f7c26189c - gives the outlet of the gun QR capability (11.6mm QR plug)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pressure-...elease-/281937374641?var=&hash=item8740d9afb7 - provides angled lance to connect to the gun, with tips that can either be used on the gun directly or on the end of the lance
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/White-PTF...509649&hash=item4d62844b1f:g:CkYAAOSw311Zt6bQ - a roll of PTFE tape to do the lot up with

By my maths that lot comes to a bit under £80 and is 95% as functional (the brass won't be quite as durable as the stainless) as the full on Mosmatic setup, if not quite as pretty :thumb:


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## Rob D 88

steelghost said:


> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRESSURE...AILINGWORLD-/182692303936?hash=item2a894f5440 - Suttner trigger gun with stainless swivel
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-3-8-P...Set-200-Bar-/330738035552?hash=item4d0185eb60 - QR for the hose & gun
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-M22-...Karcher-etc-/331937556926?hash=item4d490529be - allows female side of QR to join to an M22 hose termination
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-3-8-...Karcher-etc-/330690417763?hash=item4cfeaf5463 - 3/8 BSP male to male - joins male side of QR to the swivel
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pressure...-Male-B-S-P-/272665811100?hash=item3f7c26189c - gives the outlet of the gun QR capability (11.6mm QR plug)
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pressure-...elease-/281937374641?var=&hash=item8740d9afb7 - provides angled lance to connect to the gun, with tips that can either be used on the gun directly or on the end of the lance
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/White-PTF...509649&hash=item4d62844b1f:g:CkYAAOSw311Zt6bQ - a roll of PTFE tape to do the lot up with
> 
> By my maths that lot comes to a bit under £80 and is 95% as functional (the brass won't be quite as durable as the stainless) as the full on Mosmatic setup, if not quite as pretty :thumb:


SteelGhost you are crazy...

I know it's a lot cheaper but it does look like it. I know it might do the same job but so does my existing set up. :lol:

I just always want something that bit better! I end up spending a fortune!


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## steelghost

Rob D 88 said:


> SteelGhost you are crazy...
> 
> I know it's a lot cheaper but it does look like it. I know it might do the same job but so does my existing set up. :lol:
> 
> I just always want something that bit better! I end up spending a fortune!


Heh, yeah if you've already got a functional lance setup that's better than the stock one, there's not much point in a sideways move. I just wanted to point out for anyone reading this thread that you don't have to spend hundreds to get a huge improvement on the basic trigger setup, and that you can match Mr Moreman's setup, at least functionally, for a lot less money.

I hear you about wanting something that bit better though - all those stainless QRs etc look very nice! Wanting something "that bit better" seems to be how I've ended up with a Kranzle HD7, wall mounted hose reel, underbody lance, vario lance, quick connects for everything, etc etc :doublesho I think power washer bits might be my wax substitute... :lol:


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## Rob D 88

steelghost said:


> Heh, yeah if you've already got a functional lance setup that's better than the stock one, there's not much point in a sideways move. I just wanted to point out for anyone reading this thread that you don't have to spend hundreds to get a huge improvement on the basic trigger setup.
> 
> I hear you about wanting something that bit better though - all those stainless QRs etc look very nice! Wanting something "that bit better" seems to be how I've ended up with a Kranzle HD7, wall mounted hose reel, underbody lance, vario lance, quick connects for everything, etc etc :doublesho I think power washer bits might be my wax substitute... :lol:


Ol dear!!! :lol::lol::lol:

There was you trying to show everyone the cheap way!

She has offered to order it from America for Christmas but I just don't know whether I should. If it a waste when mine does it all the same?

What you think?

You must have spent a fortune on your setup!


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## markcaughey

Saw this posed this morning by Q Washers. Looks like a very nice set up.

Looks very similar to Matts set up from Obsessed Garage, I have held off for as long ordering his Mosmatic set up but don't know what his international shipping is like.


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## Rob D 88

markcaughey said:


> Saw this posed this morning by Q Washers. Looks like a very nice set up.
> 
> Looks very similar to Matts set up from Obsessed Garage, I have held off for as long ordering his Mosmatic set up but don't know what his international shipping is like.


Nice! He has obviously seen the demand for this quick release malarkey!!!

That looks pretty similar. Again you can see that extra bit of quality with the full Mosmatic setup but this one is impressive too. How much is it?

I also like the MTM Hydro Snow Lance haha.

I have spoken to Matt at Obsessed Garage and the postage is about £40 and will arrive within 4 days DHL!

Rob


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## markcaughey

Rob D 88 said:


> Nice! He has obviously seen the demand for this quick release malarkey!!!
> 
> That looks pretty similar. Again you can see that extra bit of quality with the full Mosmatic setup but this one is impressive too. How much is it?
> 
> I also like the MTM Hydro Snow Lance haha.
> 
> I have spoken to Matt at Obsessed Garage and the postage is about £40 and will arrive within 4 days DHL!
> 
> Rob


Just got a price back from Q washers that set up is £145 posted and then an extra £12 for the Karcher adapter that I would need.

So if you don't include the adapter and compare it to Matts setup they are both very similarly priced. Matts converts to £147 but then obviously £40 postage on top.

I won't be buying one just now but will wait until spring time and treat myself, probably won't see much use in the winter anyway. I think for the little bit extra I would rather have Matts Mosmatic setup. Its thoroughly tried and tested and anyone that watches his videos knows what I'm talking about ! As Matt says "respect the source" :thumb:


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## steelghost

Rob D 88 said:


> Ol dear!!! :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> There was you trying to show everyone the cheap way!
> 
> She has offered to order it from America for Christmas but I just don't know whether I should. If it a waste when mine does it all the same?
> 
> What you think?
> 
> You must have spent a fortune on your setup!


I like to think of it as the _moderately less expensive_ way  I suppose I think of it as buy good gear once and look after it and it'll last a long time, plus all the while you have the pleasure of using good gear. I'm aware that you can buy a whole PW for the money I've laid out above, but you could end up doing that every year or two if you're unlucky.

I started off with the standard M2000 Kranzle long gun, which is a perfectly good gun but with the long lance on it it's a bit cumbersome, and can be a pain to take apart to put away, or swap lances over. 
So I ended up getting some QRs, and then found the 10M hose wasn't quite long enough to get around the car. 
So ended up getting a hose reel + 15m heavy duty hose + 2m link hose. That's a pretty nice setup if you can find the room but it can still get twisted up if you turn it too many times. 
So then I got a rotary coupling to add on to the hose (before the QR) to stop that. Just lately I've got a "cranked" (ie, a small bend) lance for it to make it easier to rinse down the roof etc, and that comes with variable nozzles like you've got. I also made a "stubby lance" like in Whizzer's recent thread.
And this week it's my birthday so my brothers are sorting me out with a snowfoam gun and a short MTM Hydro trigger so I can use all the lances, nozzles etc with either a short or long gun depending on the job  For instance, if you're jetwashing driveways you want plenty of distance between you and the business end of the "Dirtkiller" nozzle or you end up with a face full of grit :lol:

So it has cost a few bob but it's been over the course of a couple of years, and some of the bits have been birthday presents etc.



markcaughey said:


> Saw this posed this morning by Q Washers. Looks like a very nice set up.
> 
> Looks very similar to Matts set up from Obsessed Garage, I have held off for as long ordering his Mosmatic set up but don't know what his international shipping is like.


Thinking about whether it's worth it; the final cost for the Mosmatic is going to be around £155 for the gear, plus shipping, plus import duty / VAT. Given it's coming via courier you will definitely pay the duty, so I think you're talking well over £200 all in, maybe £230.

I saw the same video from qwashers, there's a comment under the video that it would be about £160. It's a Suttner gun, I'm not totally sure of the link but if you look at http://www.mosmatic.co.uk you can see that some of their HP guns are basically the same as the Suttner ones, plus there is a shared logo on the plate. So it's a very similar gun. All the connects are stainless just like MM's package, plus it has the built in stainless swivel, and the lance is a Suttner item too.

Overall I'm not seeing the value in spending the extra £80 or so unless getting it from OG really matters to you! He's selling it as "tested" but as I said in my earlier post, this isn't rocket science - MTM Hydro and Mosmatic / Suttner have already done all the engineering; he's plugged it all together and done some very slick marketing. You don't _need _stainless steel QRs for washing cars, although it certainly looks nice. As the original topic of this thread shows, the only thing that really matters from a functional point of view is getting the right nozzle size :thumb:


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## Rob D 88

markcaughey said:


> Just got a price back from Q washers that set up is £145 posted and then an extra £12 for the Karcher adapter that I would need.
> 
> So if you don't include the adapter and compare it to Matts setup they are both very similarly priced. Matts converts to £147 but then obviously £40 postage on top.
> 
> I won't be buying one just now but will wait until spring time and treat myself, probably won't see much use in the winter anyway. I think for the little bit extra I would rather have Matts Mosmatic setup. Its thoroughly tried and tested and anyone that watches his videos knows what I'm talking about ! As Matt says "respect the source" :thumb:


Yeah exactly, it's £207 roughly excluding postage for Matts Mosmatic including the MTM Hydro lance! I think I would rather pay the extra.

Go all in I say, have the top of the range!


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## steelghost

Rob D 88 said:


> Yeah exactly, it's £207 roughly excluding postage for Matts Mosmatic including the MTM Hydro lance! I think I would rather pay the extra.
> 
> Go all in I say, have the top of the range!


The qwashers package in the video is just as good as the OG one - the extra is not buying you *any *extra quality or functionality, it's essentially the extra taxes and shipping involved in having gear made in Europe go all the way to the US, and then back again. You're essentially paying to say you've got it from a slightly Internet-famous YouTuber. Only you can decide whether or not that's worth ~£80 to you


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## markcaughey

Hmm, as I said either way I will be waiting until spring so will have a good think and by that time maybe both options will have been tried out on here and will have a bit more to go off. Has anyone in the U.K. actually bought a lance set up from Obsessed Garage.

Either way its a lot of money for a lance setup, I have wanted the OG one for a while and considering the price difference (I don't think is that much) I think I would get the OG one. It might seem daft or waste of money to some but I just wouldn't want to feel I was missing out for the sake a little more. Would definitely be interesting to see a comparison video between the two.


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## Rob D 88

Thinking about whether it's worth it; the final cost for the Mosmatic is going to be around £155 for the gear, plus shipping, plus import duty / VAT. Given it's coming via courier you will definitely pay the duty, so I think you're talking well over £200 all in, maybe £230.

Good point SG...

The VAT & Duty will put another £40 odd on the full package! Including delivery that will be nearly £300.

However, I have another plan. My sister in law is off to New York in 2 weeks. I might be able to get it delivered to her hotel then she will bring it home! That will save postage and VAT & Duty!!!

What do you think? Surely that's the way to do it!


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## steelghost

markcaughey said:


> Hmm, as I said either way I will be waiting until spring so will have a good think and by that time maybe both options will have been tried out on here and will have a bit more to go off. Has anyone in the U.K. actually bought a lance set up from Obsessed Garage.


I'm sure I've seen a couple of posts saying that they were thinking of it. Can't remember anyone actually saying they'd pulled the trigger (ha!)

When I've got the last couple of bits sorted for my setup I'm thinking of doing some sort of video "walkthough" since this sort of thing seems to get quite a bit of interest. Might help you decide one way or t'other.



Rob D 88 said:


> Thinking about whether it's worth it; the final cost for the Mosmatic is going to be around £155 for the gear, plus shipping, plus import duty / VAT. Given it's coming via courier you will definitely pay the duty, so I think you're talking well over £200 all in, maybe £230.
> 
> Good point SG...
> 
> The VAT & Duty will put another £40 odd on the full package! Including delivery that will be nearly £300.
> 
> However, I have another plan. My sister in law is off to New York in 2 weeks. I might be able to get it delivered to her hotel then she will bring it home! That will save postage and VAT & Duty!!!
> 
> What do you think? Surely that's the way to do it!


If you've got someone who happens to be able to get it there and bring it back then that does change the economics :thumb: Bear in mind it's going to be moderately heavy so your SiL might need to check how close she is to her weight allowance! Also, given it's a "gun" (albeit not that kind of gun) she might want to be ready for some nosey parker in the US to ask to see inside her case :lol:


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## Rob D 88

steelghost said:


> I'm sure I've seen a couple of posts saying that they were thinking of it. Can't remember anyone actually saying they'd pulled the trigger (ha!)
> 
> When I've got the last couple of bits sorted for my setup I'm thinking of doing some sort of video "walkthough" since this sort of thing seems to get quite a bit of interest. Might help you decide one way or t'other.
> 
> If you've got someone who happens to be able to get it there and bring it back then that does change the economics :thumb: Bear in mind it's going to be moderately heavy so your SiL might need to check how close she is to her weight allowance! Also, given it's a "gun" (albeit not that kind of gun) she might want to be ready for some nosey parker in the US to ask to see inside her case


I will message Matt and see what he thinks and if he will deliver to a hotel in New York. Sister in law and her bloke are getting 2 extra cases for the way home!

With no delivery and tax it's gotta be the way forward!

Rob

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## bigbruiser

Steel you defo need to do a walk through i have learn so much from this thread


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## steelghost

markcaughey said:


> Hmm, as I said either way I will be waiting until spring so will have a good think and by that time maybe both options will have been tried out on here and will have a bit more to go off. Has anyone in the U.K. actually bought a lance set up from Obsessed Garage.
> 
> Either way its a lot of money for a lance setup, I have wanted the OG one for a while and considering the price difference (I don't think is that much) I think I would get the OG one. It might seem daft or waste of money to some but I just wouldn't want to feel I was missing out for the sake a little more. Would definitely be interesting to see a comparison video between the two.


This guy has.


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## bigbruiser

Think im going to pull the trigger on that ebay basket Steel made at £80 it going to be better the the std lance just hoping it all fits together lol


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## steelghost

bigbruiser said:


> Think im going to pull the trigger on that ebay basket Steel made at £80 it going to be better the the std lance just hoping it all fits together lol


Oh man the pressure! :lol:

(Give me two ticks to re-read all those links and be sure I haven't 'd something up somewhere?)


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## Rob D 88

bigbruiser said:


> Think im going to pull the trigger on that ebay basket Steel made at £80 it going to be better the the std lance just hoping it all fits together lol


Get the one from QWashers. £160 delivered and is pretty much identical to the Mosmatic one I want. I spoke to Damian today and he told me what the specs are.

Sounds very impressive for the money with all stainless connectors!

I am going to order!

Rob


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## steelghost

steelghost said:


> Oh man the pressure! :lol:
> 
> (Give me two ticks to re-read all those links and be sure I haven't 'd something up somewhere?)


Re-checked all the links, it will definitely all go together and do the business, it will need a bit of putting together but no big deal there.

Only thing I'm not sure on is what the gun end of a Karcher hose looks like? The list I specced up earlier in the thread assumes an M22 female hose termination, like in this pic. If you have some sort of Karcher bayonet fitting on the end it won't work, you'll need some sort of other adaptor, maybe the one that Damian demonstrated in the video posted earlier in the thread...


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## steelghost

Rob D 88 said:


> Get the one from QWashers. £160 delivered and is pretty much identical to the Mosmatic one I want. I spoke to Damian today and he told me what the specs are.
> 
> Sounds very impressive for the money with all stainless connectors!
> 
> I am going to order!
> 
> Rob


I don't think you'll be disappointed, it looks like a really tasty setup :thumb:


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## bigbruiser

Rob D 88 said:


> Get the one from QWashers. £160 delivered and is pretty much identical to the Mosmatic one I want. I spoke to Damian today and he told me what the specs are.
> 
> Sounds very impressive for the money with all stainless connectors!
> 
> I am going to order!
> 
> Rob


Thanks mate but £80 vs £160 for me is allot of money im not fussed on stainless steel fittings and i only detail 3 cars a week odd, that extra £80 could be spent on the little one for me :thumb:


----------



## bigbruiser

steelghost said:


> Re-checked all the links, it will definitely all go together and do the business, it will need a bit of putting together but no big deal there.
> 
> Only thing I'm not sure on is what the gun end of a Karcher hose looks like? The list I specced up earlier in the thread assumes an M22 female hose termination, like in this pic. If you have some sort of Karcher bayonet fitting on the end it won't work, you'll need some sort of other adaptor, maybe the one that Damian demonstrated in the video posted earlier in the thread...


Yeah i have a k4 adaptor to screw on to a M22 thread already as that's how the cheap amazon gun went together, pretty much need everything in Q washers video apart from that black adaptor but gah it double the price from brass to stainless


----------



## steelghost

steelghost said:


> What you need is the right size of nozzle - erring slightly on the side of caution (better to lose a little pressure rather than put unneeded strain on the pump). Have a look at this (PDF link) for a bit more detail and a handy lookup table. According to the Karcher product page (and specifically the specifications on page 14 of this PDF), your K4 is rated for 6.3 litres per minute at 11MPa, or 110 bar.
> 
> Using the table linked above, on the 110 bar column the flow rate of 6.3 litres per minute would suggest a nozzle between a 0.25 and 0.3.


Just going back to this, assuming your K4 is the same spec ie 110bar / ~6 litres per minute, you'll want to make sure you get the 03 nozzle when ordering :thumb: this bit http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pressure-...7&clk_rvr_id=1371955559849&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true


----------



## bigbruiser

steelghost said:


> Just going back to this, assuming your K4 is the same spec ie 110bar / ~6 litres per minute, you'll want to make sure you get the 03 nozzle when ordering :thumb: this bit http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pressure-...7&clk_rvr_id=1371955559849&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true


yeah thanks will do im sure Rob said his 0.30 was spot on so maybe the amazon one causing pulsing may have been the wrong size.....hmmm not what to do i was so sure before you 2 pipes up tonight lol


----------



## Rob D 88

bigbruiser said:


> yeah thanks will do im sure Rob said his 0.30 was spot on so maybe the amazon one causing pulsing may have been the wrong size.....hmmm not what to do i was so sure before you 2 pipes up tonight lol


What you mean not sure? You want the £160 one now?

:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## steelghost

bigbruiser said:


> yeah thanks will do im sure Rob said his 0.30 was spot on so maybe the amazon one causing pulsing may have been the wrong size.....hmmm not what to do i was so sure before you 2 pipes up tonight lol


From what you described earlier in the thread my guess is that the Jinkang gun had a failure in the internal valve, that's the only thing that would explain water spurting out of it.

As long as you screw all the bits together properly  I'm sure it'll be fine, that gun is a Suttner (albeit not quite as swanky as the other one!) so the valve will be bombproof.


----------



## bigbruiser

Rob D 88 said:


> What you mean not sure? You want the £160 one now?
> 
> :lol::lol::lol:


yeah...you will be posting your shiny stainless pics when arrives and then ill come along with my ebay special....wait is that really vain lol ??


----------



## steelghost

Don't worry BB, as my video walkthrough of my setup will show, it's a DIY eBay special from one end to the other


----------



## bigbruiser

steelghost said:


> Don't worry BB, as my video walkthrough of my setup will show, it's a DIY eBay special from one end to the other


Ok if you get a an angry woman call ya that will be the wife SG:thumb:

Your order was placed.
Estimated delivery: Fri, 24 Nov-Thu, 30 Nov
We'll send you a confirmation email soon.


----------



## Rob D 88

steelghost said:


> Don't worry BB, as my video walkthrough of my setup will show, it's a DIY eBay special from one end to the other





bigbruiser said:


> Ok if you get a an angry woman call ya that will be the wife SG:thumb:
> 
> Your order was placed.
> Estimated delivery: Fri, 24 Nov-Thu, 30 Nov
> We'll send you a confirmation email soon.


Haha, it's nearly Christmas! You should have waited to see what Santa got ya!

:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## bigbruiser

Rob D 88 said:


> Haha, it's nearly Christmas! You should have waited to see what Santa got ya!
> 
> :lol::lol::lol:


Ill get the same as last year a lump of coal.....must have been naughty :devil:


----------



## steelghost

bigbruiser said:


> Yeah i have a k4 adaptor to screw on to a M22 thread already as that's how the cheap amazon gun went together, pretty much need everything in Q washers video apart from that black adaptor but gah it double the price from brass to stainless


Afraid the brain wasn't sharp enough to clock this last night, but if you've already got the Karcher bayonet adaptor, you probably won't need this...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-3-8-...3&clk_rvr_id=1372446616753&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true
...or this...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-3-8-P...0&clk_rvr_id=1372457811162&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true

...since you can just attach the Karcher adapter to the M22 side of this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-M22-...e&clk_rvr_id=1372468707349&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true, and then attach the 3/8 BSP side to the gun inlet.


----------



## bigbruiser

steelghost said:


> Afraid the brain wasn't sharp enough to clock this last night, but if you've already got the Karcher bayonet adaptor, you probably won't need this...
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-3-8-...3&clk_rvr_id=1372446616753&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true
> ...or this...
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-3-8-P...0&clk_rvr_id=1372457811162&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true
> 
> ...since you can just attach the Karcher adapter to the M22 side of this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-M22-...e&clk_rvr_id=1372468707349&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true, and then attach the 3/8 BSP side to the gun inlet.


Bugger well that £13 could have purchased me a large donna kebab with grilled lamb and a large bottle of coke...


----------



## steelghost

An an alternative, you could get a couple of extra adapters and use it to adapt the machine end of the hose to be quick release?


----------



## bigbruiser

steelghost said:


> An an alternative, you could get a couple of extra adapters and use it to adapt the machine end of the hose to be quick release?


The end into the machine is a tad odd, the prob end of the hose kinda clips in and secure with split pin.

I have a aftermarket 15m rubber hose so the actual K4 never moves at all so maybe no benefit on that side of the machine


----------



## steelghost

That is a little odd but as you say, with a long enough hose and stationary machine there's not much benefit in QR.

Sorry buddy, best send em back for a refund


----------



## bigbruiser

steelghost said:


> That is a little odd but as you say, with a long enough hose and stationary machine there's not much benefit in QR.
> 
> Sorry buddy, best send em back for a refund


No worries, ill just stick them in parts bin in the garage, by the time i post them back to Omagh NI ill get a £5 back lol 

Ill post some pics or a thread when it all comes and works might help others like you rob helped me cheers chaps:thumb:


----------



## Rob D 88

bigbruiser said:


> No worries, ill just stick them in parts bin in the garage, by the time i post them back to Omagh NI ill get a £5 back lol
> 
> Ill post some pics or a thread when it all comes and works might help others like you rob helped me cheers chaps:thumb:


Helped you or convinced you to waste money? :lol::lol::lol:

My Mrs is going to order mine for Christmas. She said I can have what one I want but I am just going to get the Qwashers setup after speaking with Damian.

Bruiser enjoy and when you get it all setup don't forget to post a pic on this thread!

Thanks to SteelGhost for advice and helping me too! :thumb:


----------



## ttc6

Apologies for the change of subject, but as Mr. SteelGhost is so knowledgeable in such matters this seems as good a place as any to ask.

I have a billy-bargain-basement Nilfisk 105 with a plastic lance. I'm also hugely tempted by the Kraenzle group buy offer - not that I can justify the cost but still...

I have a decent SF lance with the requisite Nilfisk T-shaped quick release that I'd like to retain due to cost. (I assume these are threaded onto the lance but it almost appears bonded.)

I am building a new workshop and have the opportunity to permanently install the PW and make up a long hose reel, but had never considered a change of lance. What are the benefits of an ebay special going to be over my plastic jobbie? 

...and should I buy the Kraenzle?!

Many thanks.


----------



## steelghost

First of all, almost all snowfoam lances can be adapted to pretty much any machine. So no concerns there :thumb:

For me your post breaks down into three questions which I'll try to answer in turn.

*What are the benefits of an ebay special going to be over my plastic jobbie? *

The point about eBay is that there are all manner of companies selling pressure washer parts on there, and because they are frequently selling to pros doing Real Work (TM) (eg, cleaning wagons, heavy plant, farm machinery or premises, etc) they are selling gear that's much better quality and more durable than the made-to-a-cost stuff from Homebase or B&Q.

So it provides the possibility to specify your own trigger, lance, extensions, nozzles, etc etc. Plus because all this gear typically uses a standard set of connections, you're no longer restricted to whatever attachments your manufacturer sells. And, if your machine should fail and is not repairable, you can keep the nice gun, lance, nozzles etc and just change the machine (possibly with a new adapter). And because all the parts are interchangeable, you can replace parts that fail or frequently get spare parts and repair it yourself.

You can expect to pay a bit more for it though - for instance, the lance setup I suggested earlier in the thread is £65 - £80, depending on how you specify the connectors, which is the price of a whole budget PW.

So you get better quality, durability and repairability, choice of configuration, but at a greater financial cost (albeit one that you should only really need to spend once).

*I am building a new workshop and have the opportunity to permanently install the PW and make up a long hose reel*

A new hose, regardless of whether or not you get a reel, is a very worthwhile thing if you have a budget PW. Typically the stock hoses are made of thermoplastic which is liable to tangling and kinking. A "proper" rubber hose with steel wires is much more durable, as well as easier to handle. Replacing the hose with an aftermarket one provides the opportunity to get away from manufacturer specific terminations, since a good hose is an appreciable investment!

My PW came with a 10m hose but I found this wasn't as long as I really wanted, and it was taking a lot of time to get out and put away. As I pretty much always wash my car (or any other car!) on the drive in front of the garage, it made sense to get a longer hose with a reel and mount it on the wall. If you expect to use your PW mostly in the same place, then a reel makes a lot of sense (but if you're going for that option budget for a bit extra hose, you'll likely want it at some point!)

Permanent installation of a PW is also a nice idea, you can have all the power and water ready to go, with the tug of a hose and the flick of a switch you're all ready to go. The same comments apply as for the hose - if you're mostly / always going to use the machine in the one place, go for it. If you might want to take it to a mate's house, or around the back to do the patio, or whatever, then it's worth thinking about how to set it up so it's not too "permanent" :lol:

It's worth noting that some PWs have built in high quality hoses, guns and reels, and come with sturdy wheels (which is just as well since they are very heavy!) For instance, the K1152 TST. It has the "guts" of a HD10 but a very robust chassis with wheels, really good quality gun, lance, hose etc. If you look into what this would cost to do separately, well, you come to a number considerably greater than the cost of this machine, especially for the GB price. Plus it's all portable if you need it to be.

All of this brings me neatly to your last question *should I buy the Kraenzle?!*

If you can afford one, absolutely. They are superb quality, and while they are not always the absolute best performance for the price, the reason to buy one is the knowledge that in the unlikely event of a fault, you'll be able to get spares, exploded diagrams, etc for years to come.

Again if you can afford it, the K1152 TST is very good value given how much it would cost to get all those things separately. However if you want to do things piecemeal and spread the cost, you could start off with a new hose (probably the best bang for buck upgrade on any budget machine) and then upgrade the gun, add a hose reel, etc, at a later date.

One final point - if you have any ideas of running a Kraenzle off stored water eg collected rainwater, you want to go for a machine with a 1400rpm motor. If you'll be running it off mains water (or you're prepared to install a pump to use rain water) then motor speed doesn't matter _per se_.

Edit: Just seen that Elite are offering the K1050 TST for £420 which is _a stonking bargain_ as long as you don't need a 1400rpm machine (see above).


----------



## ttc6

What a great and detailed reply, thanks very much. Took some digesting! One thing I had wondered - do the higher spec machines (especially the bypass- rather than dead-end-style) allow you to vary the flow rate with the trigger?

I would prefer to go piecemeal - that way I can use the Nilfisk pump until it dies. But of course this increases the cost, especially as the group buy is here now. I will be using rainwater eventually so have been looking towards the HD7. I may ask if they can supply the motor/pump unit alone so that I can spec my own eBay special lance, etc. so I don’t end up buying duplicates!

I think in truth I’m hoping that the little Nilfisk will continue to soldier on for another year or two - if only because I’m not a great fan of replacing things for the sake of it. But like you say (and after looking) if the cost of a decent reel and lance is close to that of a whole machine - am I almost best to take the opportunity to sell the old one while it still works. 

But ultimately no one can answer these questions but me! (And the credit card company!) Thanks again.


----------



## steelghost

ttc6 said:


> What a great and detailed reply, thanks very much. Took some digesting! One thing I had wondered - do the higher spec machines (especially the bypass- rather than dead-end-style) allow you to vary the flow rate with the trigger?.


I've yet to see or even hear about any machine where the trigger wasn't a binary on / off switch. The Kärcher "full control" models have variable flow on the lance but you're reducing the cleaning power that way. Overall I'd say you generally want to use the full power of your machine, but vary your nozzle, technique or both to suit the job at hand.


----------



## ttc6

Thanks again.

But now you've got me thinking... eBay special pressure washer? Because why stop at the lance?

A bit of fun maybe, and obviously no warranty backup. But I do like a good project. I may do some homework over the weekend and report back...


----------



## steelghost

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/c/single-phase-electric-motors/ ? I like where you're going with this :lol:


----------



## steelghost

If you're looking for a static installation, something like this looks amazing. Draws 16 amps though so would have to be hard wired into a dedicated circuit....


----------



## ttc6

Ha, "call for price" - probably means I can't afford it! 16A no worries, got a 50A incomer to the garage and a couple of 20A radials set up as I had an idea that big power consumers might appear at some point!

From looking around at baby industrial type machines all ready made up, the Kraenzle is hard to beat for the price. Having said that, if these guys can turn a profit on this then it's just a case of finding the right pump at the right price and the eBay special is a goer.

Reckon I can bring a pump and motor in under £200... maybe, just. Lance at £80 and hose reel £120. Pretty mean setup with all the quick releases etc all in.

https://bepressure.co.uk/honda-pres...re-p1515epn-portable-electric-pressure-washer


----------



## ttc6

This might be the one...

https://www.martynsbargains.com/rep...or-5-5hp-petrol-pressure-washer-2200-psi.html


----------



## bigbruiser

Oh my...RAGGGEEE, got the envelope through with parts opened it.....empty..what the

They had placed all the connectors into a envelope and the weight split the bag before it even got to me..shoud have got the bloody Q washers


----------



## steelghost

bigbruiser said:


> Oh my...RAGGGEEE, got the envelope through with parts opened it.....empty..what the
> 
> They had placed all the connectors into a envelope and the weight split the bag before it even got to me..shoud have got the bloody Q washers


You do wonder what some of these folks are thinking sometimes  Send a picture back to the seller....they need to pack properly and resend!

The irony being I've lost count of the PW bits and bobs I've had off eBay and never had a problem


----------



## steelghost

ttc6 said:


> This might be the one...
> 
> https://www.martynsbargains.com/rep...or-5-5hp-petrol-pressure-washer-2200-psi.html


http://www.electrotechdrives.co.uk/product/2-2kw-3hp-2800rpm-240v-electric-motor-single-phase/ ?

Just need to get the right flanges to be able to bolt the two up together properly :thumb:


----------



## ttc6

That's the one I've been looking at. The 90 frame motors (1.5 / 2.2 kW) all come with a 24mm shaft as standard which might prove problematic if the pump is to mount flush up to the motor. I could get the bearing case on the front on the mill to save on trying to find a flange adapter.

Stepping down to a 1.1 kW 80 frame (19mm shaft) would mean that the pump would pretty much bolt straight up, but I'd have to run a 20 nozzle for less than 5 lmin-1 at 120 bar.

This guy on the other hand (2.2 kW in an 80 frame) should net me over 7 lmin-1 at the full 150 bar. Plus it has a thermal cut-out built in - no starter required.


----------



## steelghost

I think you've got to be going reasonably beefy on the motor to make the whole exercise worthwhile. The thought occurs that it might be worth paying a little extra for a known brand pump (eg https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172840961852 ?), in order to have better future availability of spare parts?

Also worth mentioning - these guys have the best pricing on hoses and reels that I've seen anywhere. I have this set and it does a grand job.


----------



## Joel79

__
http://instagr.am/p/BcBRsaLHkpL/

There is my setup, i use kew/alto connections because they are a lot more sturdier and there is no play. I have 15, 25 and 40 degrees nozzles. But i wan to upgrade my gun to Suttner or Mosmatic. Isnt the swivel on Mosmatic superiour compared to Suttner and spins under pressure too?

https://www.mosmatic-spareparts.eu/...----blue-swiveling----Mosmatic-Nr-29-131.html


----------



## steelghost

What gun have you got there now? It's not the M2000, or the Starlet (which is actually a Mosmatic part anyway ). I agree, the Kew QR system is very good for lances although it's arguably overkill if you just want to swap nozzles for a different fan angle - the 1/4" QR standard is fine for that, and considerably lighter and cheaper.

Does it already have a built in swivel? If it doesn't, and you like the gun as it stands, I believe you would be best off adding one of the Mosmatic DGS or DGV series swivels separately - these have ball bearings inside (which is why they cost as much as a decent spray gun all by themselves!) As with any other kind of bearing, a ball race offers a much more freely turning system than a "plain" bearing which is what most of the more inexpensive swivels will use. If the gun you have *already has* a swivel but you don't get on with it, I would go with a separate ball bearing swivel, and a replacement gun *without* a swivel - sell your existing gun to offset the cost.

You *could *go for the Mosmatic "HP Gun With Colour Detail" which has a swivel option (part # 29.131) but I don't know which separate swivel that is equivalent to, or if it has a ball bearing mechanism - for the price, I suspect it does not.

The much more expensive trigger guns offer features like full stainless internals, low trigger force (for folks who are holding the thing down for hours on end) and specially reinforced valve mechanisms for ultra high pressure or flow applications. However, as nice a PW as the 1152TST is, it's not particularly high pressure or flow in the grand scheme of things, so you don't need to get a really high end gun for it.

(Regarding Suttner or Mosmatic being "better" than one another - from what I can see, Suttner and Mosmatic are part of the same group; some of their guns are basically identical, eg:

ST-1100 - Suttner vs Mosmatic
ST-1500 - Suttner vs Mosmatic
ST-2300 - Suttner vs Mosmatic

However Suttner seems to offer a very wide range of guns under their own brand name as well. If you look at this PDF (page 45 onwards) you can also see the full range of swivels from both Suttner and Mosmatic. My guess is that originally Suttner made guns and Mosmatic made swivels, and the two companies merged or were both acquired).


----------



## Joel79

steelghost said:


> What gun have you got there now? It's not the M2000, or the Starlet (which is actually a Mosmatic part anyway ). I agree, the Kew QR system is very good for lances although it's arguably overkill if you just want to swap nozzles for a different fan angle - the 1/4" QR standard is fine for that, and considerably lighter and cheaper.
> 
> Does it already have a built in swivel? If it doesn't, and you like the gun as it stands, I believe you would be best off adding one of the Mosmatic DGS or DGV series swivels separately - these have ball bearings inside (which is why they cost as much as a decent spray gun all by themselves!) As with any other kind of bearing, a ball race offers a much more freely turning system than a "plain" bearing which is what most of the more inexpensive swivels will use. If the gun you have *already has* a swivel but you don't get on with it, I would go with a separate ball bearing swivel, and a replacement gun *without* a swivel - sell your existing gun to offset the cost.
> 
> You *could *go for the Mosmatic "HP Gun With Colour Detail" which has a swivel option (part # 29.131) but I don't know which separate swivel that is equivalent to, or if it has a ball bearing mechanism - for the price, I suspect it does not.
> 
> The much more expensive trigger guns offer features like full stainless internals, low trigger force (for folks who are holding the thing down for hours on end) and specially reinforced valve mechanisms for ultra high pressure or flow applications. However, as nice a PW as the 1152TST is, it's not particularly high pressure or flow in the grand scheme of things, so you don't need to get a really high end gun for it.
> 
> (Regarding Suttner or Mosmatic being "better" than one another - from what I can see, Suttner and Mosmatic are part of the same group; some of their guns are basically identical, eg:
> 
> ST-1100 - Suttner vs Mosmatic
> ST-1500 - Suttner vs Mosmatic
> ST-2300 - Suttner vs Mosmatic
> 
> However Suttner seems to offer a very wide range of guns under their own brand name as well. If you look at this PDF (page 45 onwards) you can also see the full range of swivels from both Suttner and Mosmatic. My guess is that originally Suttner made guns and Mosmatic made swivels, and the two companies merged or were both acquired).


Its a PA RL30 made in Italy and has built in swivel, but the swivel is very stiff and doesnt spin that well. Also i like the LTF on Suttner(i have tried it). Well i switch different nozzles and foam lance and i like this system.

Mosmatic Gun should be exactly same as Suttner but with their own swivel which is supposed to be the best in market? On Suttner ST 2300-2600 the swivel doesnt spin under pressure and on mosmatic it should spin. However if the swivel on Suttner is as good then i might aswell buy it.

I want LTF and a good swivel. I wonder how and where i can buy my own custom built Suttner with the options i want?


----------



## steelghost

Joel79 said:


> Its a PA RL30 made in Italy and has built in swivel, but the swivel is very stiff and doesnt spin that well. Also i like the LTF on Suttner(i have tried it). Well i switch different nozzles and foam lance and i like this system.
> 
> Mosmatic Gun should be exactly same as Suttner but with their own swivel which is supposed to be the best in market? On Suttner ST 2300-2600 the swivel doesnt spin under pressure and on mosmatic it should spin. However if the swivel on Suttner is as good then i might aswell buy it.
> 
> I want LTF and a good swivel. I wonder how and where i can buy my own custom built Suttner with the options i want?


Flowjet seem to carry all the Suttner ST-2600 variants, including this one which has a built in Kew female coupling :thumb:. That has a 3/8" BSP female fixed inlet; you'd then want a Mosmatic swivel coupling with 3/8"BSP male thread on one side, and whatever you need to attach your hose on the other side. See page 21 of this PDF for all the variants.

You could also write to the vendor and ask how the built in swivel compares to the separately available Mosmatic units, they do also carry some Mosmatic gear although not the inline swivel couplings you'd want for this purpose.


----------



## Joel79

steelghost said:


> Flowjet seem to carry all the Suttner ST-2600 variants, including this one which has a built in Kew female coupling :thumb:. That has a 3/8" BSP female fixed inlet; you'd then want a Mosmatic swivel coupling with 3/8"BSP male thread on one side, and whatever you need to attach your hose on the other side. See page 21 of this PDF for all the variants.
> 
> You could also write to the vendor and ask how the built in swivel compares to the separately available Mosmatic units, they do also carry some Mosmatic gear although not the inline swivel couplings you'd want for this purpose.


I dont need the one with Kew coupling since i allready have one made my PA so i just install it to my new gun. Overall i think that the Mosmatic 29.131 is my best bet. It has good swivel, LTF technology and prise is reasonable.

Btw i wonder can i replace integrated swivel on Suttner gun and add mosmatic and vice versa?


----------



## steelghost

Joel79 said:


> Btw i wonder can i replace integrated swivel on Suttner gun and add mosmatic and vice versa?


I don't know if the integrated swivels can be removed - I suspect not to be honest. I would just get the gun you want, and add the swivel you want separately, job done :thumb:


----------



## Joel79

steelghost said:


> I don't know if the integrated swivels can be removed - I suspect not to be honest. I would just get the gun you want, and add the swivel you want separately, job done :thumb:


Only problem is that with thay way you get more metal between the gun and hose.


----------



## steelghost

Joel79 said:


> Only problem is that with thay way you get more metal between the gun and hose.


No-one said the pursuit of perfection was without compromise! 

If that's a major sticking point though, you need to find out the turning torque of the integrated swivel at the operating pressure of your machine, and compare that to the relevant external Mosmatic model.


----------



## Joel79

To me it looks like the swivel is replaceable. Spec wise i think that the Suttner 2635 with swivel and 3/8 and 1/4 connections would be the best for me. I just need to find seller 

http://www.sjpbv.com/en/products/297/hand-guns/1171/st-2635-gun


----------



## steelghost

Just get this one? (Or here on eBay)


----------



## ttc6

Steelghost look what I found!


----------



## steelghost

ttc6 said:


> Steelghost look what I found!


Ooh, that looks very tasty  unless you have a better deal I'd get that bought before they change their mind...

My only concern is that it's a 2,800rpm model and hence not especially well suited to running on low pressure stored water supplies due to the risk of cavitation damage to the pump. I'd suggest you want a simple "lifter" pump setup to pressurise the supply to the high pressure pump. Although you would need to run power to that pump, this then gives you more latitude on where / how to site your water gathering apparatus. You can then put as little as possible of the pipework outside, and integrate trace heating to stop it freezing up in winter. I daresay you could rig it so the high pressure pump can't be switched on unless the "lifter" pump is running.

Get all that lot rigged up with a nice hose reel and gun and you're laughing. Look forward to seeing it take shape along with the rest of your garage


----------



## ttc6

steelghost said:


> Ooh, that looks very tasty  unless you have a better deal I'd get that bought before they change their mind...
> 
> My only concern is that it's a 2,800rpm model and hence not especially well suited to running on low pressure stored water supplies due to the risk of cavitation damage to the pump. I'd suggest you want a simple "lifter" pump setup to pressurise the supply to the high pressure pump. Although you would need to run power to that pump, this then gives you more latitude on where / how to site your water gathering apparatus. You can then put as little as possible of the pipework outside, and integrate trace heating to stop it freezing up in winter. I daresay you could rig it so the high pressure pump can't be switched on unless the "lifter" pump is running.
> 
> Get all that lot rigged up with a nice hose reel and gun and you're laughing. Look forward to seeing it take shape along with the rest of your garage


Yes, I might give them a ring this week and see what the craic is. Came upon their site looking for Annovi pumps like the one you suggested off eBay. I shall report back...


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## Soapybubbles

steelghost said:


> Don't worry BB, as my video walkthrough of my setup will show, it's a DIY eBay special from one end to the other


I'm intrigued what this is like? No sign of a link?

I have a k5 Eco,what would it do for me? Increased power/pressure?


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## steelghost

Soapybubbles said:


> I'm intrigued what this is like? No sign of a link?
> 
> I have a k5 Eco,what would it do for me? Increased power/pressure?


Hi Soapy, are you asking about the equipment linked in post #21, or my suggestion of a "walkthrough" video?

My long reply to ttc6 further up in the thread summarises the pros and cons of replacing the stock gun and / or hose. The money involved would buy a budget PW all by itself, but the point is you can get a good quality setup that will last years, is built to do what you need, and is more or less machine independent, so your investment isn't wasted if you change or upgrade your PW.

It won't change the power of your pump, but I have found the right nozzle and gun allows me to use the capabilities of the machine I do have more effectively.


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## ttc6

As I get older I more appreciate the adage 'buy cheap, buy twice'...

My cheap Nilfisk is starting on it's way out after maybe 15 hours' use. Gun still works fine of course but you know...


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## Soapybubbles

How would I connect the new gun set up onto the original karcher hose? 









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## steelghost

ttc6 said:


> As I get older I more appreciate the adage 'buy cheap, buy twice'...
> 
> My cheap Nilfisk is starting on it's way out after maybe 15 hours' use. Gun still works fine of course but you know...


It was trying to avoid the "buy cheap, buy twice" trap that led me to buy my HD7 in the first place. That said, the maths is a bit different, you could buy one for €400 delivered from Germany, which was only about £300 in October 2015. Plus I'd won a dashcam in a competition which I sold for £90...


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## steelghost

Soapybubbles said:


> How would I connect the new gun set up onto the original karcher hose?


Assuming the connection on the end of your hose is the same as BB's, it would look like this.


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## Soapybubbles

steelghost said:


> Assuming the connection on the end of your hose is the same as BB's, it would look like this.


Hmmm looks like he has purchased a new hose.

I'm not sure hoe the hose is even released from the gun on my karcher, it's a snap in fit


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## steelghost

Soapybubbles said:


> Hmmm looks like he has purchased a new hose.
> 
> I'm not sure hoe the hose is even released from the gun on my karcher, it's a snap in fit


He has got a new hose, but his hose has the same "plug" on the end of it as the original hose. This (PDF link) suggests you can disconnect the two.


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## Soapybubbles

steelghost said:


> He has got a new hose, but his hose has the same "plug" on the end of it as the original hose. This (PDF link) suggests you can disconnect the two.


So a quick release coupler would connect onto the original hose it looks like.


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## bigbruiser

steelghost said:


> He has got a new hose, but his hose has the same "plug" on the end of it as the original hose.


Yup my hose is a 15m more flexible and robust however the exact same fittings was a straight swap


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## Soapybubbles

My hose his this end on it 









Would this be the correct connector to fit it onto the new suttner gun?










I realise I'll need a male/male connector to join the 2

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bigbruiser

Soapybubbles said:


> I realise I'll need a male/male connector to join the 2
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yes mate if you browse on my thread all the info is on there, i made it for this very reason 
There is also a part list on the 1st page all on ebay be about £20 for the fitting and depend which gun on top


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## steelghost

ttc6 said:


> Yes, I might give them a ring this week and see what the craic is. Came upon their site looking for Annovi pumps like the one you suggested off eBay. I shall report back...


Did you talk to them?

I did mentally sketch out how I might install one of these in the garage before reminding myself the wife would murder me :lol:


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## ttc6

steelghost said:


> Did you talk to them?
> 
> I did mentally sketch out how I might install one of these in the garage before reminding myself the wife would murder me :lol:


Ah, no, slipped my mind - dealing with an insurance claim on the daily at the mo. The joys.

I'm alright on the boss front, she pretty much lets me do what I want so long as i put the dishwasher on and keep her car clean / serviced. I can handle that!

You're welcome to come and use mine when it's done... after all it is all your fault!


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## Rob D 88

Mrs got me the full set from QWashers including the stainless quick release. She also ordered a 10 metre hose with the quick release.
Used it yesterday and it is without doubt well worth the money and makes it so much easier and more enjoyable to use! I recommend to anyone thinking about getting one!























Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


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## Deje

I do not see if it has been mentioned in the thread, but it may be good to know that Matt Moreman uses the NPT thread in his system, which can be a bit difficult to compliment or replace parts for those living in Europe.


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## steelghost

Deje said:


> I do not see if it has been mentioned in the thread, but it may be good to know that Matt Moreman uses the NPT thread in his system, which can be a bit difficult to compliment or replace parts for those living in Europe.


It's a good point - all the stuff sold in UK and Europe is a combination of metric and BSP threads.

Although curiously, if you buy a lance with a fixed nozzle (ie one that is screwed in rather than using a QR), that will very probably have an NPT thread!

Of course the full kit from OG will work as a unit, and the quick connections are compatible with those sold here. But if you had a problem with one of the female QRs, sourcing an NPT thread replacement would be tricky in the UK.

Rob, I suspect this is one other reason why getting your setup from Qwashers rather than OG was the right call :thumb:

Edit: further reading on BSP Vs NPT https://www.ralstoninst.com/news/story/the-difference-between-npt-bspp-and-bspt-seals


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## Deje

I like Karcher fittings
K Series Bayonet, it works better with foam lance and washer lance, quick couplings on them become a bit unstable.
But I would also like to connect and disconnect a quick connection nozzle, so my solution has become a little different.
However, I can use both Karcher attachments and equipment with fast couplings with the same trigger gun.


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## steelghost

I like the "Kew" quick release connections for lances - even when not under pressure they are mechanically very solid. Then I have the little 11.6mm quick connects to change nozzles.


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## Deje

steelghost said:


> I like the "Kew" quick release connections for lances - even when not under pressure they are mechanically very solid. Then I have the little 11.6mm quick connects to change nozzles.


Yes, that's how I do, but with Karcher quick release connections, it felt wrong to not be abel to use Karchers accessories with the "Matt Moremans" system, so I wanted the best of both worlds.


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## Rob D 88

[QUOTE=steelghost;

Rob, I suspect this is one other reason why getting your setup from Qwashers rather than OG was the right call :thumb:

It actually wasn't SG... I did not know that!

But it just made more sense, a lot cheaper and according to Damian at Qwashers the Mosmatic gun is a lower grade Suttner gun than the one Damian uses just with Mosmatic plastic covers. Everything else is pretty much identical for £100 less due to the postage fee's and I have a piece of mind that it will be easy to return if anything goess wrong or any problems.

Damian at QWashers was very helpful and if anyone is thinking about getting this setup I strongly recommend it.


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## steelghost

Rob D 88 said:


> steelghost said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rob, I suspect this is one other reason why getting your setup from Qwashers rather than OG was the right call :thumb:
> 
> It actually wasn't SG... I did not know that!
> 
> But it just made more sense, a lot cheaper and according to Damian at Qwashers the Mosmatic gun is a lower grade Suttner gun than the one Damian uses just with Mosmatic plastic covers. Everything else is pretty much identical for £100 less due to the postage fee's and I have a piece of mind that it will be easy to return if anything goess wrong or any problems.
> 
> Damian at QWashers was very helpful and if anyone is thinking about getting this setup I strongly recommend it.
Click to expand...

Hehe, it's definitely a good reason even if you didn't know it at the time!

Plus as you say you have a warranty contact in the UK in case of any issues, not that I expect you'll need it, that setup is pretty much as good as it gets :thumb:


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## Soapybubbles

Just ordered this set up from Damian at qwashers

1 x Karcher gun inlet female quick release £9.95 
1 x 22mm male x 3/8 male £1.48
1 x trigger st1100 with swivel £22.66 
1 x lance with bend stainless steel £12.50
1 x mini female quick release £3.74
1 x jet with mini 4003 £8.06 
1 x mini female x 1/4 male £4.72
1 x mini male x 1/4 female £1.08 
1 x postage £9.00 
Total £74.27

Looking forward to setting it up when it arrives


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## dave-g

I might have a look into this myself!


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## Deje

Although the gun has swivel, it's not all the swivels that work when there is water pressure in the hose, it is in this regard Mosmatics swivels are among the best, they manage to rotate even with pressure.


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## steelghost

My mum got me a Mosmatic swivel for Christmas :thumb:

It's a  work of art


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## Deje

steelghost said:


> My mum got me a Mosmatic swivel for Christmas :thumb:
> 
> It's a  work of art


119/5000
You must have been nice to your mother, they are not cheap!


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## Joel79

Rob D 88 said:


> steelghost;
> Rob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats kinda bull****. They are the same gun except qwasher version is chemical resistant (pointless) but mosmatic has the better swivel, other than that they are identical. Also you can get that mosmatic gun for good proce from Germany.
> 
> https://www.mosmatic-spareparts.eu/...----blue-swiveling----Mosmatic-Nr-29-131.html
> 
> I ordered the gun and lance from there and im going to use my kew alto quick release connectors.
Click to expand...


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## Deje

Yes, it's the Swivel who makes that gun, I just bought the Swivel and put it in my Suttner gun.


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## Deje

Joel79 said:


> Rob D 88 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats kinda bull****. They are the same gun except qwasher version is chemical resistant (pointless) but mosmatic has the better swivel, other than that they are identical. Also you can get that mosmatic gun for good proce from Germany.
> 
> https://www.mosmatic-spareparts.eu/...----blue-swiveling----Mosmatic-Nr-29-131.html
> 
> I ordered the gun and lance from there and im going to use my kew alto quick release connectors.
> 
> 
> 
> You probably already know, but good to know is that the lance has the BSP inlet and a NPT outlet.
Click to expand...


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## Joel79

Actually i didnt lol. Hopefully the gun will have bsp threads  well i allrrady have good stainless lance made by PA.


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## Deje

Joel79 said:


> Actually i didnt lol. Hopefully the gun will have bsp threads  well i allrrady have good stainless lance made by PA.


Just buy an adapter and it will be fine!

The gun has bsp!


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## Joel79

Thanks for the info  os that obsessed Garage version of the mosmatic gun bsp too?

What kind setup do you have?

Here is mine, i just wanted better gun and swivel:

__
http://instagr.am/p/BcBRsaLHkpL/

And where i would find 3/8 male plug and 3/8 female connector for the hose of my kränzle? Qwashers use female plug with adapor which doesnt look as slick.


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## Deje

Joel79 said:


> Thanks for the info  os that obsessed Garage version of the mosmatic gun bsp too?
> 
> What kind setup do you have?
> 
> Here is mine, i just wanted better gun and swivel:
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BcBRsaLHkpL/
> 
> And where i would find 3/8 male plug and 3/8 female connector for the hose of my kränzle? Qwashers use female plug with adapor which doesnt look as slick.


Hehe. I do not have a photo on my, but I have a Suttner 2300 gun with a built-in Mosmatic swivel and a cheap Chinese lance with a wrapped in plastic quick coupler and karcher2 high pressure wash, I only wash the car.

I can switch with a single move from Karcher adapter to standard quick connectors.
K2 is connected to a hose reel with 15m hose, so I never move the pressure washer.


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## Deje

Joel79 said:


> Thanks for the info  os that obsessed Garage version of the mosmatic gun bsp too?
> 
> What kind setup do you have?
> 
> Here is mine, i just wanted better gun and swivel:
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BcBRsaLHkpL/
> 
> And where i would find 3/8 male plug and 3/8 female connector for the hose of my kränzle? Qwashers use female plug with adapor which doesnt look as slick.


Obsessed Garage version has npt in both ends, It is a little strange that the European version does not have bsp at both ends!
Can you view a photo on Qwasher items and what material do you want in the connectors?


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## Joel79

Deje said:


> Obsessed Garage version has npt in both ends, It is a little strange that the European version does not have bsp at both ends!
> Can you view a photo on Qwasher items and what material do you want in the connectors?


You mean the lance and not the gun? Actually i think my PA lance is also npt female outlet.

I want stainless steel. I just need 3/8 female coupler and 3/8 plug preferrably male but i guess female with adapter will do.


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## Deje

Joel79 said:


> You mean the lance and not the gun? Actually i think my PA lance is also npt female outlet.
> 
> I want stainless steel. I just need 3/8 female coupler and 3/8 plug preferrably male but i guess female with adapter will do.


QR
http://www.malcleanse.co.uk/quick-r...0-series-ss-qr-couplings-c-3_139_166_172.html

Yes, I mean the lance, wondering why they use NPT in the outlet on the lance, what is supposed to fit, hm.
Another reflection one can do is why stainless QR is 4 times more expensive here in Europe than in the United States, those in the United States of bad quality?


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## Soapybubbles

My package from Damian at qwashers arrived today.

See my earlier post for costings

Really pleased with the quality

Damian even stuck the attachments etc on for me.

Would definitely recommend using him.
























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## steelghost

Joel79 said:


> Thanks for the info  os that obsessed Garage version of the mosmatic gun bsp too?
> 
> What kind setup do you have?
> 
> Here is mine, i just wanted better gun and swivel:
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BcBRsaLHkpL/
> 
> And where i would find 3/8 male plug and 3/8 female connector for the hose of my kränzle? Qwashers use female plug with adapor which doesnt look as slick.


If you need M22 threads, there's this - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pressure...P-Coupling-19-5-mm-3-8-F-x-M22M-/281871500858

or https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pressure...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

You can get the adaptors in stainless but I've never seen a 19.5mm female quick connect with a male thread, they're pretty much always female.


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## Deje

Soapybubbles said:


> My package from Damian at qwashers arrived today.
> 
> See my earlier post for costings
> 
> Really pleased with the quality
> 
> Damian even stuck the attachments etc on for me.
> 
> Would definitely recommend using him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can you link to the lance, can not find it on Qwashers page at the price you have specified, maybe it's time to replace my cheap Chinese one.


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## Soapybubbles

Deje said:


> Can you link to the lance, can not find it on Qwashers page at the price you have specified, maybe it's time to replace my cheap Chinese one.


Sorry I can't

Not all his products are listed online.

I did my order via phone/email with Damian


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## Joel79

That lance looks nice, better than the one on his video.


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## Deje

Soapybubbles said:


> Sorry I can't
> 
> Not all his products are listed online.
> 
> I did my order via phone/email with Damian


Ok. I suspected that!
why did you choose a QR with blue top on the gun, my OCD wants black!


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## Soapybubbles

Deje said:


> Ok. I suspected that!
> why did you choose a QR with blue top on the gun, my OCD wants black!


I didn't, I just requested a QR at either end of the lance, and that's how it came.

No biggie for me.


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## markcaughey

Rob D 88 said:


> Mrs got me the full set from QWashers including the stainless quick release. She also ordered a 10 metre hose with the quick release.
> Used it yesterday and it is without doubt well worth the money and makes it so much easier and more enjoyable to use! I recommend to anyone thinking about getting one!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


I'm so tempted to pull the trigger and this gun and lance set up ( quite literally :lol: )

However by the looks of the weather forecast it wouldn't be getting used anytime soon so no rush, I could just hang it up on the wall inside and admire it though !


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## Rob D 88

markcaughey said:


> I'm so tempted to pull the trigger and this gun and lance set up ( quite literally :lol: )
> 
> However by the looks of the weather forecast it wouldn't be getting used anytime soon so no rush, I could just hang it up on the wall inside and admire it though !


Mark, I am glad I have this, I have only used it once and it makes washing the car more enjoyable when you have all the right weapons.

It looks good, you wait until you have one and the quality compared to the standard setup!

Make sure you get all black like mine, the lance might come with a blue handle!


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## markcaughey

Rob D 88 said:


> Mark, I am glad I have this, I have only used it once and it makes washing the car more enjoyable when you have all the right weapons.
> 
> It looks good, you wait until you have one and the quality compared to the standard setup!
> 
> Make sure you get all black like mine, the lance might come with a blue handle!


Yeah it was when I saw the black handle on yours that sold me on this version. If I get a minuet today I may give Q washers a call :wave:


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## Deje

Joel79 said:


> Rob D 88 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats kinda bull****. They are the same gun except qwasher version is chemical resistant (pointless) but mosmatic has the better swivel, other than that they are identical. Also you can get that mosmatic gun for good proce from Germany.
> 
> https://www.mosmatic-spareparts.eu/...----blue-swiveling----Mosmatic-Nr-29-131.html
> 
> I ordered the gun and lance from there and im going to use my kew alto quick release connectors.
> 
> 
> 
> How much did you pay for that set, the prices are with or without VAT on the page?
Click to expand...


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## steelghost

Deje said:


> How much did you pay for that set, the prices are with or without VAT on the page?


It says the prices exclude VAT (in v. small writing underneath the price)


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## Deje

steelghost said:


> It says the prices exclude VAT (in v. small writing underneath the price)


Yes, but if you go on their German page gg-ersatzteile.de, the VAT will be added directly to the shopping cart, but not on the mosmatic-spareparts.eu page.
It made me a bit pensive.


----------



## percymon

ttc6 said:


> Steelghost look what I found!





steelghost said:


> Ooh, that looks very tasty  unless you have a better deal I'd get that bought before they change their mind...
> 
> My only concern is that it's a 2,800rpm model and hence not especially well suited to running on low pressure stored water supplies due to the risk of cavitation damage to the pump. I'd suggest you want a simple "lifter" pump setup to pressurise the supply to the high pressure pump. Although you would need to run power to that pump, this then gives you more latitude on where / how to site your water gathering apparatus. You can then put as little as possible of the pipework outside, and integrate trace heating to stop it freezing up in winter. I daresay you could rig it so the high pressure pump can't be switched on unless the "lifter" pump is running.
> 
> Get all that lot rigged up with a nice hose reel and gun and you're laughing. Look forward to seeing it take shape along with the rest of your garage





ttc6 said:


> Yes, I might give them a ring this week and see what the craic is. Came upon their site looking for Annovi pumps like the one you suggested off eBay. I shall report back...


Guys,

just so you are aware, the AR units are available, but the price at exhange-engineering is excluding VAT and carriage. Adding 4 x anti-vibration mounts, carriage and vat to the motor pump unit brings it in at £286 delivered.

The good news is that because its UK supplied it actually comes equipped with a mains lead and plug, plus the pump is prefilled with oil (Italian sourced ones aren't). So whilst the £200 pump is actually £265 delivered (or £286 with AV mounts) you do save £20-25 not having to buy the electrical hook up components.

You still have a unit thats comparable to Kranzle K10/122 , so don't 'discount' it as an option - its almost ready to go, just pick you hose length, couplings gun and lance


----------

