# What an idiot I am!



## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

Having spent hundreds of pounds having a professional detailer machine polish my car and then apply G3 glasscoat all round, I decided to buy myself some brand new cleaning products to keep it in tip top condition.

I bought the Microfiber Madness Incredisponge which I gently washed in warm water first, and a Chemical Guys Wooly Mammoth Drying Towel which I've used for many months with great success, so decided to treat it to a wash prior to cleaning this BRAND NEW car.

What I didn't realise was that I put the Wooly in the washing machine on its own, with a cap full of Fairy Fabric Softener, which I'm now led to believe does the complete opposite of what you'd expect.

The swirls are quite bad, and most noticeable across the doors where I'm more likely to have swiped across than patted, but would washing the towel be the cause of such significant swirls, or could it have been the Incredisponge, for which I have no prior experience.

I'm quite surprised that swirls could appear so easily on G3 glasscoat but what I really need to know is what likely caused the damage, so if I get the work re-done, it doesn't happen again.

So gutted about it


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

Unless the towel was covered in grit I am not sure it would have caused that level of damage. Rewash the towel with some white vinegar and it should be fine


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

I wouldn't have thought the softener would cause swirls, it'd only stop the tower from absorbing as much water.


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## ddave05 (May 23, 2010)

Are you sure that damage wasn't inflicted during the wash stage rather than drying stage?

Was the mitt clean/soft when you started? Did you rinse the car first? Did you rinse the mitt in your bucket regularly?

I have come from a silver car to black. I religiously rinse the mitt out after every couple of swipes.


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## Kash-Jnr (Mar 24, 2013)

We know nothing about your wash technique let alone drying..

From your first post it seems that you used the wooly mammoth to wash it.


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

Sorry for not giving much info, I had narrowed it down to those products. I used snow foam (Bilt) to begin with, rinsed off, then used a 2 bucket method with Auto Finesse Shampoo and the sponge mentioned. Cleaning a panel at a time before rinsing. The second bucket was still fairly clean afterwards, so clearly very little on the car as the snow foam worked a treat. I finished with a jet wash spray, followed by a running trickle of water so any suds remaining would sheet off. The panels were clean but no sunshine at that stage, so can't confirm when it happened.

The sponge was washed in warm water first, but with nothing else, so not sure if that could have caused it, given that the majority of the light scratches are on the doors rather than other panels and there are no obvious marks on the b-pillars which are piano black and usually the first to show signs (I was extra careful with them anyway, just in case). I pretty much pat dried the horizontal panels, with light wet strokes as the towel was for some reason giving off lots of fluff, but the drier side was used for the doors and vertical panels.

Does this help further as I'm worried if I get the work re-done, that I'll somehow do the same, even though I'm incredibly careful. I'm in disbelief that one of these products has caused such extensive damage from a single wash. No product has EVER touched the ground; I'm exceptionally careful which is what makes this even more painful!


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## spenstar (May 11, 2010)

mdianuk said:


> *Having spent hundreds of pounds having a professional detailer machine polish my car* and then apply G3 glasscoat all round, I decided to buy myself some brand new cleaning products to keep it in tip top condition.


This bolded sentence worries me. Did you polished by yourself or detailer? I can not believe that you could produce such mess with normal wash.


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

spenstar said:


> This bolded sentence worries me. Did you polished by yourself or detailer? I can not believe that you could produce such mess with normal wash.


The detailer carried out the paint correction, machine polish and G3 glasscoat. He's a well respected member of this forum. The paintwork was near as perfect after he carried out the work and I've literally only cleaned the car once, and very carefully. I'm in shock as to the condition, especially having researched products to death and made sure I followed the correct wash path. I need to work out which product is likely to have done it, or whether the G3 glasscoat just isn't up to standard. The detailer believes it has been done during the wash or dry stage and seems to think possibly the dry stage because of the wide brush strokes (only seen the same image though), I'm in disbelief that such damage could happen so easily.


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## Eliasasas (Feb 22, 2014)

I agree with what has been said already: it's hard to believe that was caused by improper washing just one time. Especially with the quality tools and technique you've listed having used.

It's hard to see in the image, but it sort of looks like another car lightly scraped the side of your car. If not another car, maybe something else? How dirty was your car before you washed it? Could it be that it was dirty enough to cover up those marks, and you only just noticed them after having cleaned the car? I'm just thinking that the time you inspect your car most thoroughly is when you're washing/detailing it.

Just a thought...

PS: I noticed the marks seem to be horizontal, which just helps my theory about another car lightly scraping...


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

Eliasasas said:


> It's hard to see in the image, but it sort of looks like another car lightly scraped the side of your car. If not another car, maybe something else? How dirty was your car before you washed it? Could it be that it was dirty enough to cover up those marks, and you only just noticed them after having cleaned the car? I'm just thinking that the time you inspect your car most thoroughly is when you're washing/detailing it.


Defiantly nothing has touched the car, the swirls/holograms are appearing on both sides of the car, mainly on the doors, though a few signs of it on the arches too, but can't really inspect the roof. It points towards the drying stage just because the washing stage is pretty much the same technique on the entire car (top to bottom, regular rinse). Car wasn't that dirty, probably 30 miles of wet driving but the snow foam removed most of it. Car was also perfect when collected from the detailer, and was sunny enough to check over after the journey home.

The technique is ok, I'm confident of that, so either a product failed (sponge, drying towel or possible Bilt Hamber snow foam softened the glasscoat?!?!), or the G3 glasscoat isn't a good product and potentially too soft, but the detailer really wouldn't have used it otherwise; he's extensively tested all of them.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

mdianuk said:


> Defiantly nothing has touched the car, the swirls/holograms are appearing on both sides of the car, mainly on the doors, though a few signs of it on the arches too, but can't really inspect the roof. It points towards the drying stage just because the washing stage is pretty much the same technique on the entire car (top to bottom, regular rinse). Car wasn't that dirty, probably 30 miles of wet driving but the snow foam removed most of it. Car was also perfect when collected from the detailer, and was sunny enough to check over after the journey home.
> 
> T*he technique is ok,* *I'm confident of that*, so either a product failed (*sponge, drying towel or possible Bilt Hamber snow foam softened the glasscoat?!?!)*, or the G3 glasscoat isn't a good product and potentially too soft, but the detailer really wouldn't have used it otherwise; he's extensively tested all of them.


I'm not confident the technique is ok, looking at the wheels you have a MK7 GTI? I have had mine since October last year, other readers will vouch that I'm not as cultivated as others on here in that I will for instance use a drying blade, the way I have washed my car since new is spray with shampoo mix, and rinse off I use an asda drying towel and it is old, only time I have noticed marks like your pic shows is when they pull the transportation film off at the dealership, but as you have had it corrected, it does seem puzzling, I doubt the BH has affected the glasscoat or perhaps glasscoat is nowhere near as cracked as it's meant to be.


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## Ebbe J (Jun 18, 2008)

A proper detailer should be able to look at the marring and by that determine what caused it - on another note, never drag drying towels across the paint, I've seen marring inflicted by this many times.

Audi A3 Sportback, 1,5 years old, nearly 40k km, never been polished, only 'spray on' products used, such as quick detailers etc. Washed carefully using Zymöl sponges and pat dried using Uber towels from I4D, elitecarcare or whatever.


















Kind regards,

Ebbe


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

Then I'm at a complete loss, and any request to have the detailing re-done (at my expense) might result in the same problem if indeed it is something I've done as part of the washing/drying process. Never had anything like this happen before, including on my Porsche using similar products/methods. 

Would any products hide this for the time being? The detailer has recommended Poor Boys Black Hole as a possible wax to help for now, but I don't have a machine polish.


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## Jimble (May 1, 2010)

That looks more like clay bar marring, although i'm having similar issues with my Lapiz blue Golf R to a lesser extent, i tried machining mine last weekend but i think the microfibres i used to remove the product have inflicted some faint swirls, i've invested in some decent megs mf's so will be trying again in the not too distant future, i think the paint quality of the mk7 Golf is not what it used to be, it's so easy to mark but a bit fiddly to correct!!


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

mdianuk said:


> Would any products hide this for the time being? The detailer has recommended Poor Boys Black Hole as a possible wax to help for now, but I don't have a machine polish.


Black Hole goes on great by hand.
Its a glaze which would help mask the swirls.


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## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

Jimble said:


> ... i think the microfibres i used to remove the product have inflicted some faint swirls, i've invested in some decent megs mf's so will be trying again in the not too distant future, ...


I use the Halfords lambswool wash mitts, they really are good for the money.
Sonus Blue Perl drying towel.
Sonus Der Wunder and i4detailing plush microfibres for buffing waxes/sealants.

I have no problem with my cars with these products.
I've recently detailed my Clio Cup and its been 2 years nearly since its last machine polish, and upon inspection it really wasn't worth plugging them in again, the paint is sooooo swirl free. And there's no fancy glass coats on.
Werkstatt Acrylic Trigger and Raceglaze '55'

HTH


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## Geordieexile (May 21, 2013)

Looking at that first picture I've seen something very similar before at the bottom of doors. A friend of mine had used good technique but was rubbing against his doors with his trousers when leaning in to clean the roof. (Blue golf match) He had light scratches across the bottom of all 4 doors. He'd kneeled on his drive whilst cleaning wheels. Is there any way you could have done the same thing?


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## TheRonin (Mar 12, 2006)

Is it possible the detailer you paid applied some fillers to mask the swirling, and you have washed it off to reveal the swirls? That damage looks like its been caused by a machine rather than anything by hand.


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## rickylexus250 (Mar 11, 2014)

TheRonin said:


> Is it possible the detailer you paid applied some fillers to mask the swirling, and you have washed it off to reveal the swirls? That damage looks like its been caused by a machine rather than anything by hand.


I agree, if there were marks after the glass coat was put on then the only solution would be be to mask them with a filler glaze which has now washed off. Unfortunately if a detailer has left marks it is quite a process to get the glass coating off to correct the paint again, so the solution would be a filler glaze. If the marks are on the surface of the glass coating a mild paint correction may fix it. Don't use wax as suggested by the detailer, it may mask the marks for a few weeks or months until you do major wash again, this is not why you got the glass coating.


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

Geordieexile said:


> Looking at that first picture I've seen something very similar before at the bottom of doors. A friend of mine had used good technique but was rubbing against his doors with his trousers when leaning in to clean the roof. (Blue golf match) He had light scratches across the bottom of all 4 doors. He'd kneeled on his drive whilst cleaning wheels. Is there any way you could have done the same thing?


Sadly that isn't it either, as there are swirls on the tops of the doors too, just not in that particular picture.

I can't see how the detailer did it tbh; it must have been during my cleaning/drying process, but damned if I know how or why!


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## benf (Apr 26, 2013)

To me that looks like clay bar marring, id have it straight back to the detailer. I don't believe that one wash with the technique you use could have done that much damage unless you dropped the sponge or microfibre on the floor and carried on working.


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## lowejackson (Feb 23, 2006)

What type of car is it?


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

Brand new Golf GTI, carbon grey. The detailer worked on the car from brand new (as good as, 200 miles on clock), so no clay bar was used, just a full stage wash, machine polish (evidence by a minor scratch that was taken out) and G3 Glasscoat. No scratches were evident on checking in sunshine, but at a loss as to how such damage has been caused from a single wash using perfectly fine methods and products.


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## Eliasasas (Feb 22, 2014)

Even a new car needs claying in most cases.


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

Agreed, but this one didn't, condition was good, but I wanted a sealant to reduce the hassle in the future. The panel condition after the detail was carried out was perfect, which is why I was so careful to ensure I used decent products and the right process, so imagine how gutted I am to find so many swirls showing up.

I would have suggested it is the paint, but obviously with glasscoat on top, it can't be! I might have to try Poorboys Black Hole to see if it hides it for now, as I don't really want to pay out for all the work to be done again, especially if I haven't got to the bottom of the issue and it appears again!

Any other suggestions/thoughts would be great.


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## bmwman (Jun 11, 2008)

This seems to be a regular occurrence for me at the moment, Its marring caused by wash and drying stage, I have a black alfa romeo and the paint will scratch if you blow at it. 

I've found the best way to reduce damage is to use this method:
1:Citrus pre-wash
2: Pressure wash off thoroughly
3:Snow foam
4:final pressure wash and rinse
5: Dry using a damp microfibre towel
6: Use a quick detailer to remove final water marks with a clean microfibre towel.


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## Leebo310 (Sep 30, 2013)

*the towel was for some reason giving off lots of fluff, but the drier side was used for the doors and vertical panels.*

Mate first off I'm surprised the towel was linting so much considering it had been washed beforehand and had been used for "months" prior to that??

As a couple of others have said, it looks like damage something rubbing against it, either from another car or your trousers etc. Is the damage on the roof/upper panels just as bad? If there was a problem with your washing/drying technique then I'd have expected it to be consistent around the entire car.

Going back to the original detail, has the detailer confirmed exactly what he used on your car? Again as others have said, I'm really surprised it wasn't clayed, regardless as to what the condition appeared to like. You've said that there was a scratch beforehand, plus the fact that you'd been driving it for a few weeks too.

Are you sure it wasn't damage left after you took off the delivery stickers etc looking at one of your other threads?
*Following problems with the first car I requested that absolutely no clean process was to take place, so I took delivery of it with stickers in the windows, on the body work, wheels, and chalk writing on the windows etc. I've managed to get most of it off and my detailer will take care of the rest next week*


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## Jonnybbad (Jun 12, 2013)

I can't see a towel causing that damage are you sure your sponge never had grit in it


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## smegal (Aug 14, 2009)

Do you keep your car in a garage?


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## Eliasasas (Feb 22, 2014)

I think more pictures would help. Try to include more pictures of all the damaged areas and possibly from several angles.

Like leebo said, if there was a problem with your tools or technique the damage should be more consistent or "spread out". And I'll say it again, it's hard to believe that much damage can be caused by one wash. Even an automatic car wash on a very dirty car with butter soft paint shouldn't cause this kind of damage.


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## Ki55 (Jul 3, 2013)

Hi guys, long time lurker but first post :wave:

I thought I'd jump in here because I actually did something identical to this to our Mk7 Golf. I was using a dry yellow Uber towel (used 2 or 3 times previously) and wiped the driver-side rear passenger door during the drying stage (after a VP citrus pre-wash, snow foam and careful wash with the MM Incredimitt). This 'wiping' definitely inflicted marring very similar to that in the photo that the OP has provided us with. I thought at first that there was some shampoo left on the service so swiped a very small area again, only to see fresh marring appear once again! The paint on our Golf is actually very soft and this was confirmed by KDS Keltec who carried out a respray (on a separate area where the paint had been chipped), which went against everything I've heard about VAG paint being very hard. 

I pat dry now and never, ever wipe with the drying towel. I'm not saying this is 100% what's happened here, but it does look very similar...


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

Answering the questions above, I was surprised the towel was giving off so much lint too, but I just put that down to washing it at the time; as it had been used for months but never washed, so maybe this drew something out of it, or the accidental use of fabric softener did this. I've since washed it in white vinegar and will see if it is noticeably softer once air-dried.

Can't see any obvious marks on the roof etc, but it is 100% not something rubbing against it, apart from my washing/drying, because the swirls are consistent on both sides of the car and run into the arches etc.

The car was brand new and untouched. The transit stickers weren't in that location and we (detailer and I) looked over the car in direct sun prior to the detail and were both happy that the condition was actually very good. No clay was used, just a machine polish and glasscoat; took about 6 hours.

100% no grit in sponge or towel, I'd never re-use a product if dropped, plus I'd suspect damage would be more aggressive and confined that being the case; these look like brush strokes across due to the sponge or towel, but I just can't see how or why. The sponge was brand new out of the sealed bag, but have to admit to only giving it a brief rinse in the wash bucket prior to use. Not sure if that would matter.

Not garaged.

I agree, I can't understand how a single careful wash would cause such extensive damage, but areas like the bonnet appear to be absolutely fine, can't see anything of note. Just seems to be the vertical areas for some reason.

Can't get more pictures until later or when it is next sunny, but the picture I attached is pretty much how it is on all the doors and some spread into the arches.

Ki55 - I would agree if it wasn't for the fact the car has glasscoat, so an additional layer of protection that is meant to be quite tough.


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## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

How long was the coating cured for? How long did the car stay dry for after application? How long was it until the cars first wash?
Few points to make... If the detailer decided not to clay the car "because it was new" then straight up... Find a different detailer in your area. 

And if after "extensive research and testing" the detailer has landed on g3 glasscoat.. He's not done much research and testing!!


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## Leebo310 (Sep 30, 2013)

mdianuk said:


> Can't see any obvious marks on the roof etc, but it is 100% not something rubbing against it, apart from my washing/drying, because the swirls are consistent on both sides of the car and run into the arches etc.


But if the swirls/marks aren't on the bonnet/roof/rear etc too then how can it be your washing/drying that caused it just on the doors and arches? 
Did you wash/dry the doors any different to the rest?

The swirls being consistent on both sides yep would rule out another car causing the damage but would actually back up the point that it could've been your trousers/etc rubbing against it. Could've even been the hose rubbing as you moved it round the car.

More pics would definitely help. Do you have any immediately after the detail, either taken by you or the detailer?
Again I really am surprised that the detailer didn't clay it, given that it had been driven round for a couple of hundred miles, as well as having had all the dealer stickers removed by yourself.
Can the detailer join this thread and confirm exactly what he did/used?


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

Miglior said:


> How long was the coating cured for? How long did the car stay dry for after application? How long was it until the cars first wash?
> Few points to make... If the detailer decided not to clay the car "because it was new" then straight up... Find a different detailer in your area.


I'm not sure on these points. I took the car immediately after the job was done. It was a nice hot day and don't think it rained for another 2 or 3 days. I've cleaned it 8 days after the treatment.

I'm sure the detailer would have checked the car over to determine if clay treatment was needed. I'm told a liquid clay was used. I know products were used to get rid of the transit grease and residue glue from the stickers.

At the moment I can only blame myself, as I can't see how the detailer has done anything wrong. My cloths haven't touched the car, nor has the hose pipe etc, but the swirls are consistent with the dirtier parts of the car, yet I used snow foam first, and the panels were pretty good because I even started with a shampoo wash.



Leebo310 said:


> But if the swirls/marks aren't on the bonnet/roof/rear etc too then how can it be your washing/drying that caused it just on the doors and arches?
> Did you wash/dry the doors any different to the rest?
> 
> More pics would definitely help. Do you have any immediately after the detail, either taken by you or the detailer?
> ...


Agreed, the same technique was used on the entire car, though pat drying was used more so on the roof and bonnet, where as the doors I rubbed with the towel, but this is a Woolie, not some cheap towel so I can't see that being the reason, but not sure!

Didn't get any pictures after the detail because I had a 50 mile drive home on a warm sunny day, so had bug splats over the front. I intended on giving it a wash, then taking somewhere for some photos.

I can ask the detailer to join the conversation to update on what was used, but I'm not sure he uses the site anymore.


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## Miglior (Feb 12, 2006)

So the car was driven immediately after (within a few hours) of the job being finished?


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

Miglior said:


> So the car was driven immediately after (within a few hours) of the job being finished?


Yes, but I'm told (not just by the detailer) that the glasscoat is fine to drive on afterwards and cures within 24 hours. It was a warm weekend too, so should have aided the cure time. To add, the paintwork looked perfect 4 days later, but couldn't check beyond then because it had rained whilst the car was being used so all panels were a little mucky, which is when paint holograms etc tend not to show.


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## Guru (Aug 28, 2013)

Liquid clay? I may be completely ignorant but I'm hearing that term for the first time.


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## Hasan1 (Jul 1, 2011)

Guru said:


> Liquid clay? I may be completely ignorant but I'm hearing that term for the first time.


That would be a paint cleaner. But if I was doing a job on a car and putting my name to it I would clay it


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Guru said:


> Liquid clay? I may be completely ignorant but I'm hearing that term for the first time.


 Turtle Wax do, or did, a liquid clay product. I bought one from Halfords several years ago but never used it, so can't comment on how effectively it works


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

Ok, lots of question marks over the quality of the detailers work, but I'm confident having spoken to him a few times since, that the work required was carried out correctly for a new car, in the condition mine was in. I did actually take some pictures afterwards in full sun, all of which look perfect, and if I had seen swirls at the time (unless they would have still have been hidden by the curing glasscoat), I would have complained, so I'm sure this has happened during my initial wash/dry on Saturday.

Problem remains what caused it, a product, technique, or an issue with the glasscoat at that time. The trouble remains however that it only seems to have impacted upon the doors and arches, the flat surfaces of the bonnet and roof are still perfect, so surely that would discount pretty much everything, which makes it even more frustrating.

I would just swallow my pride and have the work re-done, but the detailer is over 50 miles away and the inconvenience caused in transportation for the day doesn't make it a straight forward one to resolve. Black Hole is my next step, beyond that, I don't know


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## Leebo310 (Sep 30, 2013)

Not having a go mate but some of your posts seem to contradict each other.



mdianuk said:


> I'm sure the detailer would have checked the car over to determine if clay treatment was needed.


compared to


mdianuk said:


> we (detailer and I) looked over the car in direct sun prior to the detail and were both happy that the condition was actually very good.


and 


mdianuk said:


> Didn't get any pictures after the detail because I had a 50 mile drive home on a warm sunny day, so had bug splats over the front. I intended on giving it a wash, then taking somewhere for some photos.


compared to


mdianuk said:


> I did actually take some pictures afterwards in full sun, all of which look perfect


and



mdianuk said:


> The detailer carried out the paint correction, machine polish and G3 glasscoat. He's a well respected member of this forum.


compared to



mdianuk said:


> I can ask the detailer to join the conversation to update on what was used, but I'm not sure he uses the site anymore.


and this bit I don't even understand to be honest...



mdianuk said:


> the swirls are consistent with the dirtier parts of the car, yet I used snow foam first, and the panels were pretty good *because I even started with a shampoo wash.*


You started with a shampoo wash on the dirtier parts of the car before the snow foam?? 
In that case is there a chance that you simply rubbed the dirtier parts too hard with the sponge and that's what's caused the marks?

Like I said mate, not having a go just trying to work out exactly what you/the detailer did.


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

No no no, just me posting like an idiot. The panels were pretty good after the snow foam "before" I even started with a shampoo wash. 

Regarding the other contradictions (they do sound like it don't they), we looked over the car to see what was required, but that was a reference to how many delivery swirls etc there were, I don't have a keen enough eye to know whether claying was required; I left that to him. I'd taken a few pictures afterwards, but nothing that could make a difference to this thread, as the pictures were either of an overall look of the car, or of the bonnet which was easier to see the reflection from the sun and how perfect it looked. He was and still is a member here, and well respected for the extensive product tests he did, one of which has more 'thanks' than any other, however, he doesn't participate in day to day postings and rarely has time to come on any more.

Hope that clarifies a bit; promise I'm not going mad, and that I do have a very good understanding of the washing/drying process, but obviously something has gone wrong and I'm just not sure what. I really need to get the car under some strong lights (hazy today) so I can see if there are any obviously other panels that have suffered and see if that appear specific to any kind of product, but from what I can see, all other panels are ok, which makes this even more confusing.

Also to add, the swirls cannot have been inflicted by the detailer, as he uses a scissor lift to work at eye level during the machine polish phase. The swirls follow the kind of stroke patterns I would do at floor level if that makes sense.

I'm 100% that I've done it, just don't know with what (sounds like Cluedo!) given the inconsistencies!


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## camerashy (Feb 9, 2014)

If you took the car directly from the dealer without any pre treatment could it be that the 'transit wax' has not been properly removed and is in conflict with the current treatment


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

camerashy said:


> If you took the car directly from the dealer without any pre treatment could it be that the 'transit wax' has not been properly removed and is in conflict with the current treatment


No, transit wax was all removed prior to the treatment by the detailer. Not sure of the product, but it was a decent grease/wax based remover.


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## martyp (Oct 24, 2006)

I can't see why the detailer would not have clay'd and IronX'd (or similar) the car upon arrival. New or not, it can have rail dust and all other kinds of nasties on the surface? 

I assume G3 glass coat is somewhat similar to a G|Techniq nano coating, on which case a moderately dirty car would come up very clean after a snow foaming session and hardly anything would be left behind before touched with a mitt/sponge. 

Don't waste your time with BlackHole on top of the coating, if anything it will reduce the life and will just wash off come next time anyway - unless you put another LSP on top, again defeating the point of getting a nano sealant applied in the first place!

I would be sceptical to say you could have done that damage, it looks like machine or clay marring to me but the car wasn't clayed...

I'd take it back and get the detailer to start again or give a reasonable explanation as to why this has occurred.


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## Jonnybbad (Jun 12, 2013)

I'd be taking it back to see what your detailer tells you what has caused it


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

I won't have the opportunity to return to the detailer for a look for a while unfortunately, so for now, I guess I'm going to have to try Black Hole, even if I have to apply it every time I wash the car; just until I can figure out what product has destroyed the paint, if indeed it was me!

If any hardcore enthusiasts with measuring kit etc live in south Cheshire at all and would afford me the courtesy of a look, I'd be grateful. Equally, if anyone can recommend a local professional detailer in south Cheshire, I would pop in and see them, with a view to potential future work.


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## Eliasasas (Feb 22, 2014)

Maybe that is something you can try if you feel that taking the car to the detailer again is troublesome? Depends on how spread out the marring is I guess, since polishing by hand can be very labor heavy and time consuming.

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=844

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/accessories/sonus-sfx-pro-applicators-pkg/2/prod_31.html


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestion Eliasasas, I'll see if Black Hole does anything first. I suspect if it makes absolutely no difference, it might suggest that the swirls are under the glasscoat? Maybe someone can confirm.

Apart from that, I've lost a little faith in keeping my car to that level of perfection and will just return to washing every couple of weeks and making the most of driving it.


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## wylie coyote (Jul 15, 2007)

Not sure if it'll work on the coating you have but sometimes using tar remover renovates/refreshes the coating. May be worth trying a wipe over of tar remover over that area to see if it remains which might suggest it's under the coating....


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

Oh how I wish it would be that, but unfortunately I don't have any tar remover and don't fancy throwing even more money at the car to find out. Nice suggestion though, did make me wonder if the marks are just within the soft glasscoat but I've been assured that wouldn't be the case. Still can't for the life of me work out why the damage is only on the doors, and I can only think because there is normally more dirt on them, but I was so very careful! Maybe just the angles of the doors too, because if I shine a light into them, or line up the sun directly, the marks aren't visable; only at angles.


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## wylie coyote (Jul 15, 2007)

Understandable, tar remover is only £8/9 but if it didn't help you would have it stuck in the garage..:thumb:


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## RipVega (Jan 8, 2014)

I'm not familiar with G3 but if it's like GTechniq C1 is it possible that some of it crystalised in a towel you were using and then caused the marring?

Also, as the marring is only on vertical panels that sounds to me like an area where pat drying, or laying on the drying towel, is harder and you're more likely to use strokes, as opposed to horizontal surfaces where you just lay the towel.

After using nano products I believe it's best to bin the cloth in case the product has cured in the fibres.


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

But surely the glasscoat wouldn't crystalise in the towel after over a week of curing?

I did use strokes across vertical panels, no doubt about that, but from now on I'll certainly be pat drying everything!


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## RipVega (Jan 8, 2014)

No it wouldn't, but thought I suggest it in case you had used a contaminated towel.


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

RipVega said:


> No it wouldn't, but thought I suggest it in case you had used a contaminated towel.


Ah right, no, the towel had previously been used with non-protected cars in the same sense, it was the first time, so if it was the towel, it would only be to blame because I washed it with liquid softener, but I'm told that would just reduce its ability to soak up water, not likely to cause scratching


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## mdianuk (Apr 7, 2014)

Cleaned the car again, applied the Black Hole and can't find a single swirl on the doors. Should have checked the doors after cleaning before applying Black Hole, but it wasn't sunny at that stage!

Whether the swirls are still there and the angle of light just isn't showing them at the moment, or that the Poorboys has covered it, or maybe even the swirls have vanished with the wash, though I've no idea how that would be possible. Anyway, hopefully resolved enough for now, I hope!!!


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## camerashy (Feb 9, 2014)

Gives us an update once you have thoroughly checked in the sun etc


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## uk_ (Feb 17, 2006)

any update?


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