# ND Filters?



## MR Ray (Jun 29, 2007)

I want to buy a set of ND filters to experiment with and since I have just ordered a Hoya SHMC UV I would fancy more Hoya filter but I'm looking at silly money to buy a set.

Is it really necessary to buy expensive ND filters or would a £20-40 set do the same job?
Example; http://www.cameratonic.co.uk/products/borwin-72mm-neutral-density-nd2-nd4-nd8-filter-set.html

What grade/level filter to start with for taking photos of moving water/waves?


----------



## bretti_kivi (Apr 22, 2008)

If you want to mess and see teh effects, then get some welding glass. Cheaper than a set.

However, if you're serious, you will need good filters and that generally means Lee. Glass. 100mmx100mm. Cheap they are not.

Hitech tend to colourcast, Cokin too if you stack them, but they both provide for an introduction to the requirements they make of you and your tripod.

Bret


----------



## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

Have lee fixed the huge backlog they have yet?
Last I saw they were quoting a 4 month wait for filters. I guess thats the problem with exceptionally popular stuff when its all handmade.


----------



## Troon (Dec 17, 2008)

A slight colour cast on ND filters is not so much of a problem in today's digital world. Simply set the camera white balance to a neutral object (grey card? remember those?) with the filter fitted, and casts are compensated for.

I'd go for extreme filters, +3 or above. Modern cameras are very flexible with a high base ISO sensitivity, so a +1 or +2 is not as useful as in the days of Kodachrome 25.

I've seen some great shots with a +10, but they're quite expensive. Welding glass, if properly fitted (tricky!), is a cheaper alternative. Another option is to stack multiple slightly-blurred exposures.

This guy uses a +10:

http://www.petebarnesphotography.co.uk/labels/Hints.html


----------



## bretti_kivi (Apr 22, 2008)

Lee haven't sorted their waiting lists yet. I disagree on the "you can fix this", because I don't see how it's possible. Yes, WB can help to ease the pain but especially on dark filters, it's very hard to correct well and requires RAW. I've tried it on some shots and hit the limitations of my software, so I tend to try and get it right in-camera....

Bret


----------



## Blueberry (Aug 10, 2007)

I would suggest buying Lee filters. I've tried Kokin amongst others but Lee are head and shoulders above. Expensive yes, but well worth it. I've got a B&W 10stop filter and a Hitech 10 stop - both suffer from colour casts which I haven't managed to fully get rid of in Raw. One day, when Lee up their production, I will probably get one of theirs.


----------



## GIZTO29 (May 8, 2009)

I've been through exactly what you're asking Mr Ray... When I bought my camer I bought a set of screw on ND filters for £10 off eBay to see if I would use them enough to warrant buying better ones. I did so them upgraded to a full set of 9 Hitech 85 mm nd filters. Soft grads, hard grads and full nd filters, all of which were 1, 2 & 3 stop respectively. I have to say these filters are great value wise and performance wise and arguably second to Lee. They can be bought from Teamwork Photo separately or in various packs. I would say miss out on the 1 stop and go with maybe a 3 stop nd then 2 & 3 stop grads. Hard if you like seascape or maybe soft for landscape. I actually ended up having to sell mine as I bought a Sigma 10-20 lens which is so wide I've had to rebut filters in the 100 mm size. It was a this point I went for the Lee system but did rebuy the Hitech 2 stop hard grad and also the new Hitech 10 stop Pro. I have a Lee 3 stop soft grad aswell and a Kood 2 stop ND. Regarding colour casts from what I've seen every filter leaves one which can be rectified in Adobe Camera Raw or as said with pre set White balance. It can be tricky sometimes though which is why I reckon so many 10 stop shots are converted to mono. 
Buying wise it just depends on what you're happy to pay but I've learned buy cheap and buy twice 
I would happily recommend the Hitech sets to you though.
Phil


----------



## MR Ray (Jun 29, 2007)

Money is tight at the moment because only just last week I bought a Nikon D7000, 18-200mm lens and Hoya S-HMC UV filter. 

I think lee filters are defo a no go. 

Correct me if I'm wrong please

ND2 = 1 stop
ND4 = 2 stop
ND7 = 3 stop

If I can get a ND2, ND4 and ND 8 for £10 it might just be worth it as a starting point. 
What did you find wrong with the cheap filters?


----------



## Buck (Jan 16, 2008)

The cheap filters are of lower optical quality - effectively they will degrade the image that you would take with your lens alone - either by shifting focus slightly and/or adding a colour cast to them.

I bought a set of Cokin filters as my first set and they were a great introduction to filters as they are not the cheapest but they are not in Lee territory.

I am now building up my Lee kit and will be moving my Cokin set up on to enable me to buy my last couple of filters!

To answer your other question - you are right

ND2 = 1 stop
ND4 = 2 stop
ND8 = 3 stop (I presume the 7 was a typo?!)


----------



## GIZTO29 (May 8, 2009)

MR Ray said:


> Money is tight at the moment because only just last week I bought a Nikon D7000, 18-200mm lens and Hoya S-HMC UV filter.
> 
> I think lee filters are defo a no go.
> 
> ...


Yeh but as mentioned 3 Stop Is Nd8. Now we know what camera you have I would definitely go for at least Hitech. Remember what I said above, buy cheap buy twice. I was gonna ask you what filter thread you have as you could've had mine to try but they're only 52 mm.

Here's the hitechs
http://teamworkphoto.com/shop/index...cts_id=10355&zenid=d52ip9dolbtbvp34t50e6vj915
Grads single price
http://teamworkphoto.com/shop/index...cts_id=10297&zenid=d52ip9dolbtbvp34t50e6vj915

You can buy the cokin p adapter too fit them in aswell. You've bought a £1k camera so it's daft to be scrimping on filters.....
As mentioned buy a piece of welding glass to try really long exposures before buying a Big Stopper if its your thing


----------



## wayne_w (Jan 25, 2007)

I have used these before, good prices & service etc. :thumb:

http://www.srb-griturn.com/

Wayne


----------



## MR Ray (Jun 29, 2007)

ND7 was defo a typo (iphone  )

OK I've been convinced by you guys and kindly pointed out


> You've bought a £1k camera so it's daft to be scrimping on filters


   

Since I have a Hoya UV filter would it be best to buy Hoya ND filter for stacking or stacking a ND with a UV is a no no?

screw on filter probably suits me best because I like to travel light.

That Cokin system looks good value for money.

P series adapter £14.95 http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/14073/show.html

72mm Screw thread £12.00 http://www.parkcameras.com/4188/Cokin-72mm-P-Series-Adapter--P472-.html

Hitech 85 Neutral Density Filter Kit - (ND 0.3, 0.6, 0.9) £27.00 +VAT http://teamworkphoto.com/shop/index...cts_id=10355&zenid=d52ip9dolbtbvp34t50e6vj915


----------



## MR Ray (Jun 29, 2007)

at the risk of seeming a bit cheap/tight  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-72mm-R...sFilters_JN&hash=item33679f132b#ht_2073wt_952


----------



## MR Ray (Jun 29, 2007)

wayne_w said:


> I have used these before, good prices & service etc. :thumb:
> 
> http://www.srb-griturn.com/
> 
> Wayne


sweet http://www.srb-griturn.com/p-size-holder-kit-1-2171-p.asp


----------



## MR Ray (Jun 29, 2007)

GIZTO29 said:


> Here's the hitechs
> http://teamworkphoto.com/shop/index...cts_id=10355&zenid=d52ip9dolbtbvp34t50e6vj915
> Grads single price
> http://teamworkphoto.com/shop/index...cts_id=10297&zenid=d52ip9dolbtbvp34t50e6vj915
> ...


Me again 

can the Cokin adapter do the same as Lee at different angles and fitting filters half way?

I want Lee but cant afford it but Cokin seems a bit cheap :thumb:


----------



## bretti_kivi (Apr 22, 2008)

errr... there's not much difference in usability between Cokin and Lee. I have Cokins - the wide angle adapter which allows one filter - and an ND8 and matching grad. It's OK for what I want but I do want to go Lee.

So go for a 100x100 system. The biggest adapter for the P size in Cokin is 82mm and at anything under 24mm you'll get dark corners. So go 100mm and you've solved that problem, even if it's a tad more expensive.

Bret

EDIT: one thing I *really* don't like with Cokin is that for 52mm I need to go to another set of filters. So if I want to use my 28/3.5 with filters - that's a 49mm thread - I need an A size holder and new set of filters. That's very silly IMO.


----------



## MR Ray (Jun 29, 2007)

That's a pain because I'm planning on buying a 50mm 1.4f


----------



## dubnut71 (Jul 25, 2006)

Try the cokin's and shoot in raw, job more or less done!!!


----------



## MR Ray (Jun 29, 2007)

Ordered the Cokin P with 72mm but can't decide on what filters to buy

I think it will be Hitech but what To get?
Full ND?
Grad soft?
Grad hard?

I want a minimal starter set kit for rivers, sea, crashing waves, hilly landscape and waterfalls.

Thanks for everybody's help so far


----------



## MR Ray (Jun 29, 2007)

Finally got round to ordering some Hitech filters for my cokin P

Ordered the master kit with ND 0.3, 0.6, 0.9. Soft grad 0.3, 0.6, 0.9 but won't get them until after Xmas as they are made to order


----------



## GIZTO29 (May 8, 2009)

MR Ray said:


> Finally got round to ordering some Hitech filters for my cokin P
> 
> Ordered the master kit with ND 0.3, 0.6, 0.9. Soft grad 0.3, 0.6, 0.9 but won't get them until after Xmas as they are made to order


MAde to order... where you getting them from?


----------



## MR Ray (Jun 29, 2007)

Directly from formatt hitech as it worked out cheaper


----------



## GIZTO29 (May 8, 2009)

MR Ray said:


> Directly from formatt hitech as it worked out cheaper


Ghats weird that you have to wait...


----------



## MR Ray (Jun 29, 2007)

Yeah. Was hoping to use them over Xmas


----------

