# BMW + UDM. What polish to use??



## jamesfraser (Feb 11, 2008)

*BMW + UDM. What grade polish, megs #84/85?????*

I have recently polished my E39 Tourer and discovered the lacquer is hard as nails. I got a good finish after many many hits but it was so time consuming.
I was using a sonus yellow pad with Sonus SFX 1 which I now realise is just not up to the job. Sonus don't do any product harsher than this so can anyone (preferably who has tried a UDM or similar on BMW paint) recomend something with a bit more bite.

Thanks


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

Maybe a sample set of Menzerna polishes is in order, and/or the 3M Trizact range.
That said, maybe a firmer pad is needed as well - Menzerna's own white one is quite firm, and Meguiar's Compound pad is one to look at too.


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## jamesfraser (Feb 11, 2008)

Any further thoughts on this. I am about to but a cheap E34 5 series and am thinking of trying Megs #84 and even #85 on it.


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## jamesfraser (Feb 11, 2008)

Bump: hoping for a little advice


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## Fuddle (May 4, 2008)

I struugled with megs 83 on my beemer recently, so have just bought the menz sample kit from CYC. Haven't tried it yet but should give some more bite on the hard paint


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## jamesfraser (Feb 11, 2008)

Cheers Fuddle, can you let me know how you get on with it?


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## Detailed Obsession (Mar 2, 2006)

The new Meguiar's polishes; #95 and #105, are strong, but excellent on hard German paint 

Gareth


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## jamesfraser (Feb 11, 2008)

Thanks, where would they come on the abrasive chart?


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## Nickos (Apr 27, 2006)

They both rate #12 on the chart iirc. Uber Cut Power.


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## jamesfraser (Feb 11, 2008)

Wow, very heavy duty then. I'd be a bit nervous using that I think. Have you used either? I think I may start another thread for these to get a bit more gen.


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## pampos (Mar 15, 2008)

Menzerna works great for me on BMW/Mercedes paint
Rd3.02 fo the correction and 85rd for the finish on LCC 5,5'' pads....
Also i use PFW 3,5'' for the correction if LCC pad is not enough...


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## Detailed Obsession (Mar 2, 2006)

jamesfraser said:


> Wow, very heavy duty then. I'd be a bit nervous using that I think. Have you used either? I think I may start another thread for these to get a bit more gen.


Yes, they're very heavy cut; but the 12 rating is when using wool pads - they're not so agressive with foam pads. They're also far more agressive via rotary than DA.

I've tested and used them via DA, and i get outstanding results - i'm really, really pleased with them and i always have them ready now if i have German paint to work on.

#105 is more unusual, with a really short working time - you make a couple of passes to remove the swirls and then stop. Then you tidy up with something like #80.

#95 works more normally, like #83 and #80. Even using a DA, i've managed to get a nigh on LSP ready finish with this - with a quick pass over with #80 afterwards it's perfect.

Gareth


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## jamesfraser (Feb 11, 2008)

Thanks for the reply Gareth. Still a bit apprehensive but very interested, the #95 appeals to me. What I was using was Sonus SFX 1 which I now know to be rated at 6, I assume using the foam pads. The Megs #84 rated at 8 I think and the #85 at 10, again using foam pads. What would the rating be for the #95 and #105 using the foam pad in comparison to the above. 

My BMW is an '02 plate but the car I will be working on next is a '94 plate. Will that be of the same hardness.

Sorry for all the questions but you understand I am a novice and really don't want to be on here in a fortnight whining about how i overdid it and buggered up my BMW.


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## Detailed Obsession (Mar 2, 2006)

Yes, the #95 will still be stronger than #84 and #85 - but works more efficiently IMO, so you can actually do the job and remove less CC. All the BMW's i've personally worked on have had very hard paint - some of the new ones have had extremely hard paint... The 1994 car will depend also on whether it's still original paint - it's very common for cars of that age to have had some paint by now.

I do indeed understand you apprehension - no one wants to make a mess of it! Do you have access to a PTG? This would put your mind at rest as you worked. Bear in mind that as long as you take it easy, you won't be working the polish anywhere near as hard as you do with a rotary.

As a guide, i used #95 by DA on a VW Polo a few weeks back as a test. It made mincemeat of the swirls - one of the easiest deswirls i've ever done on a German car bearing in mind i wasn't using my rotary and the car was swirled really, really badly. The swirls came out in one(!) pass, and the deeper scratches in 2. This removed a total of 6 microns - quite a lot for a couple of passes with a DA, but totally necessary to remove the deeper scratches. If i'd have used a more gentle polish, such as 83, i'd have still got the marks out, but it would have taken much longer and i'd still have needed to have removed just as much CC to get the scratches out anyway...

Obviously, these are just my findings and you should only use the product if you're comfortable to do so. 

Gareth


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## jamesfraser (Feb 11, 2008)

I think I'm sold on the #95. The last time was just soul destroying with the Sonus stuff. I was having a look on your web page, How long will the 32oz bottle last in terms of whole german cars?


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

Can't believe that you can not get the cut that you need using *just* Meguiar's #83 on a Sonus SFX2 polishing pad.

This will be a long and hard job, taking up to 8 minutes for each 12" square section. Plus, depending on the depth of the swirls, you may need to polish the area more than once.

Don't make the assumption that because you are struggling, that you should jump up to the highest possible polish, though this is a common mistake made.

Normal polishing is done using the SFX2 pads, using a technique to get the best from the polish being used. I'd try and get a sample of #83 before going much further, as I think if worked correctly, that you will be suprised with what you can achieve with this polish alone.

Someone on Youtube removing wet sandng marks using a PC and Meg's #83-






Someone on Youtube using Megs #105 by PC -






The finish left after the #105 far from LSP ready, instead using it just to cut out defects, which it does really well.


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## jamesfraser (Feb 11, 2008)

Have _YOU_ used megs #83 or equivelant grade on BMW paint using a DA polisher. It is hard as nails! Using the SFX 1 pad with SFX 1 polish was a joke and I _was_ using it correctly. I have watched loads of those vids on youtube including the ones you posted. I did get results in the end but the process almost put me off altogether as it took me over two weeks (after work and weekends) to get the finish I wanted.

I understand the higher grade polish will require a lower grade to finish off and I wasn't looking to jump straight to the highest grade possible, I was looking for advice from other people who have had similar experience using similar equipment to myself and what they used to get good results without screwing up their cars. I didn't want to keep buying another grade up each time I was disapointed as these polishes are not cheap.

Perhaps someone could sort me out with some samples of #83, 84,85,95,105
to test before I waste my hard earned money on all of them.

Thanks, all advice greatly appreciated


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## Detailed Obsession (Mar 2, 2006)

Yes, #83 will get the full results on German paint - i've done it myself, time and time again with DA and rotary. It's a slow and steady process with a DA though, which James has adhered to above! (although much quicker and easier with a rotary).

Whilst #105 may not finish LSP ready (although i've passed after it with #80 and this has been fine - nothing was needed in between) #95 finishes differently, if you're careful it's almost LSP ready, with just the lightest of passes with #80 required! On a different note, i tried both by hand last week on areas a machine can't touch (badly scratched areas behind the door handle) and was really chuffed at what you can achieve! You can really knock the scratches out, then a normal polish takes care of the micro-marring.

Whilst #83 can most definately sort the hard paint with the correct technique - i can also understand the other side of the coin - a stronger polish can do the same job, only quicker. Whilst it's best to start with #83, it's nice for there to be stronger options available should a certain job require it 

James - where are you? I'm in Essex - you're more than welcome to drop by and try my own bottles of polish if you're close so you can make up your own mind 

Gareth


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## jamesfraser (Feb 11, 2008)

Would love to drop by.........I live in the North East of Scotland. Maybe next time I'm passing through eh! :thumb:

Thanks for your help. :thumb:


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## Detailed Obsession (Mar 2, 2006)

D'oh, maybe not then! Ah well, if you were ever down, just give me a shout :thumb:

Gareth


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

jamesfraser said:


> Have _YOU_ used megs #83 or equivelant grade on BMW paint using a DA polisher. It is hard as nails!


I'll be at Bry & Dave KG's Dundee meet tomorrow with a DA, SFX2 and a bottle of #83 if you fancy dropping by. I'd be more than happy to show you:thumb:

I'm not in the habit of passing over advice that I can't back up with "just' a little first hand experience.

Steve.


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2008)

There you go, get yourself over to the Meet, have a chat with Steve and take up his offer, I would bite his hand off (and pay him beer tokens) to get a bit of tuition off him!


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## jamesfraser (Feb 11, 2008)

Thanks for the offer Steve, I normally would have jumped at the chance but I can't get away from work at all this weekend. Most weekends I'm free, typical eh.


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## L200 Steve (Oct 25, 2005)

jamesfraser said:


> Thanks for the offer Steve, I normally would have jumped at the chance but I can't get away from work at all this weekend. Most weekends I'm free, typical eh.


I do think that it is well worth taking the time to get to watch someone like Dave KG get the most from a polish at a detailing meet. The way he demystifies maximising a polish makes it so much easier for you to get the best results from your polish on your car type:thumb:


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## AW8 (Dec 11, 2006)

I sucessfully corrected my '02 registered sapphire black BMW using a G220 Megs polish pad and #83 followed by a seperate megs polish pad and Megs #80.

I chose Megs polishes to learn as much as I could & mainly because I bought my kit last December when weather cold, ( having read reports re Menz being fussy at times in the cold). 

It's not imposssible to correct a BMW the age of mine with #83 and a polish pad via G220 it's just very time consuming. I still need to play a bit on the roof but suspect careful use of some Megs #105 with my Megs foam cut pad may be on the cards..............I did consider powergloss before but I like the lubricity of the megs stuff. I've seen the excellent pics of results of work by Steve, ( who is highly regarded on other baords including Megs), using G220 and #105 and have also read the warning posts worldwide too.

It's a bit of a taboo in some areas to discuss cut pads and compounds being used with a G220 & on megs boards in US it's frowned against. The G220 was intended to make novice detailers make cars look nice and it seems megs dont want to endorse anything that may cause customers to cause damage - they seem keener to market the G220 towards car enthusiasts looking at the next progressive step from hand polishing.

I recently corrected my neigbours bootlid on his '99 metallic blue 318i using #83 but I did cheat and do a set with a cut pad before following with polish pad and then #80 prior to Collinite 476.

I am sure those more experienced than me may have more sucess with G220 polish pad and #83 on bemmers but I havent had time to perfect my technique where I consistently see correction results as fast as I would like.

I've learned most from the internet here ands stateside (not least from kind contributors on here). Golden rule seems to be to only resort to harsher products if others fail or struggle.


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## MattOz (May 15, 2007)

Hi James,

I've done many BMW's, both mine and friends and have used a PC for most of the time I've been correcting. I tend to use a Meguiars burgundy cutting pad with either Megs #83 or 3M Fast Cut Plus. I then finish up with a black 3M pad and some Ultrafina SE.

Here's an example. All with the PC.

This is just with #83, before refining with Ultrafina. 


















Fast Cut Plus with a blob of Ultrafina on a black 3M pad...



















Cheers
Matt


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## jamesfraser (Feb 11, 2008)

Thanks Matt, how long does it take to get to that level? I have actually achieved the same level of correction but it took a lot of attempts. My paint was very poor condition though.


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## MattOz (May 15, 2007)

Hi James,

Not that long to be honest. PC on speed 5.5 and fairly slow pases, gradually speeding the passes up and relieving pressure on the pad as the polish residue clears. It probably takes me about 3-4 hours to do a complete car to that level. 

Cheers
Matt


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## jamesfraser (Feb 11, 2008)

OK, on my new project, a dark blue M reg 520i I will try the Sonus SFX 1 polish and pad again on one panel and see how long it takes me. If I'm still struggling then I will move onto #84 or #85. If this is still no use it is onto #95 but I will take advice and use the lower grade first.

Thanks all for input.


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