# Jewelling with a DA?



## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Hi folks, after some unsuccessful Googling, I was just wondering if somebody could explain the process of jewelling with a DA polisher? Specifically a long throw polisher like the Rupes 21.

Is it simply a case of no pressure, slow machine speed and slow arm movements, with a finishing polish and pad?

Thanks
Russ


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Jewelling is performed with a rotary rather than a DA and one of the best definitions I have found for it is by the legendary Todd Helme who describes the process in detail below:

_As far as the whole jeweling thing, here is the best of my recollection. It's been almost three years so I'm a little foggy. I had a client, who when I was polishing his paint, asked me if I was jeweling the paint. It sounded cool so I stuck with it.

At the time, most guys where doing there final polishing with a polishing pad such as Meguiar's yellow foam or Lake Country white foam when using a rotary. I had noticed that this greatly increased the likely hood of holograms returning when using polishes like Menzerna which have a high tendency to fill and are difficult to 'strip' from the paint. Brian Brice and I had long been using 'no-cut' pads such as Lake Country blue/red/black pads or Meguiar's black pads.

The idea of finishing a rotary with a no-cut pad isn't (and wasn't) new, 3M recommended there black waffle pads, Meguiar's recommended (on occasion) their black finishing pad, etc. However this wasn't common practice in the forum world at the time. So we (Brian Brice and I) started using the term jeweling, which I stole from my client, to define the process. This was only to separate it from what other people were final polishing with.

I have been asked to define the term several times, and the original definition, as stated above, was "using a pad with no mechanical action in combination with a long work time and ultra fine polish to bring maximum gloss out when using a rotary polisher."

If you remember the slew of threads that asked "How to jewel with a DA?"... this is why.

This is because using a soft, non mechanical pad with a DA is really (except in rare occasion) pointless. The oscillating action of a DA requires a pad stiff enough to transfer the orbital action to the paint and a soft pad (unless pressed really hard) simply jiggles on itself like a bowl of Jello. It serves almost no ability to remove material from the paint in an even manner. On most paints you can achieve an equal/slightly better finish with a DA by using a slightly firmer pad that will transfer the orbital action with less pressure.

After using the term for a little while I was brought to my attention that other people have used it before, most notably Killrwheelz from Autogeek. I found a handful of posts where he referred to jeweling, usually using a specific technique. His technique was to use a soft pad, reduce pressure (at high speed) and let the pad wobble across the paint with a DA. I could literally write a 3 page paper on why this is a bad idea for achieving maximum gloss, so to each there own.

Using an ultra soft pad on a DA doesn't make sense, reducing pressure on a DA for the final step also doesn't make sense, and letting the pad whip across the surface in a jagged motion is the wrong choice for achieving a high gloss finish.

*
So at least to me, jeweling should be a term reserved for using a soft pad/rotary/long work times/diminishing abrasive polish since it is the only application in which the above will work. *

However people are (of course) free to use the term how they wish and define it how they may, and if they are happy with the results they achieve then who cares._


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks Alan, however what I'm really looking for is the best way to "finish out" with a DA, though your post does at least explain why people only really talk about jewelling with a rotary.


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

MBRuss said:


> Thanks Alan, however what I'm really looking for is the best way to "finish out" with a DA, though your post does at least explain why people only really talk about jewelling with a rotary.


Personally I finish polishing with a DA by reducing the speed in a couple of stages and also the pressure until the polish has gone clear and all but disappeared. :buffer:

However, I always finish by breaking out the rotary and jewelling the paint for the highest gloss and sharpest finish. 

Alan W


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

That's another question I have - is it really sharper by rotary, and why?

I thought the new long throw machines finished as well, if not better? Some people even use a rotary to get all the scratches out and then finish up with a DA to ensure a hologram-free finish.

I also read various posts by Mike Phillips regarding finishing with a rotary and he made it seem as if it's nigh on impossible to finish perfectly with a rotary without leaving holograms, and asserted that many people probably don't realise they've left holograms as they don't bother to panel wipe properly afterwards to check.

Surely the best finish is going to be achieved by the "flattest" paint, so it's a process of correcting the paint as evenly as possible?

All of the above is questions based on what I've read. I'm genuinely interested, rather than trying to assert that rotaries are useless!

FWIW, this is the article that I read by Mike Phillips. https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101-a/43684-hologram-free-rotary-buffer.html

He makes it clear that it's pretty difficult to achieve a flawless finish by rotary and himself uses a DA to finish, despite his vast experience of polishing. This is why I question if a rotary can really leave a better finish, and if so,why/how?


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

In my opinion most people confuse jeweling with refining. 

Refining is the act of tightening up a finish you have previously compounded, to remove holograms, haze or marring. 
Jeweling is the act of extracting the maximum amount of gloss from a previously refined finish. 

Its very rare these days as compounds and polishes finish far better than they used to, and more commonly people are just not willing to pay a lot of extra money, for someone to take a LOT of time for a minimal increase in finish

Really, its completed with a rotary. The mechanics of the way forced rotation moves and breaks down an abrasive is very different to that of a random orbital.We are talking about doing things on a microscopic level here. Microns are fractions of millimetres and jeweling barely removes any microns at all. Soft pads with zero cut, and polishes with next to no cut run for extended times to thoroughly level paint at a scale we cant really see. 

If you have a show car that has perfect paint, go for it. Other than that its truly a waste of time and effort Imo


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

I can see a difference after jewelling and that makes all the many hours spent doing it worthwhile. I'm pretty sure gloss meters have been used to prove a jewelled finish achieved by a rotary is glossier.

However, the difference is very slight and most would not notice it or be prepared to effectively polish their car twice! :lol: It is the law of diminishing returns when trying to achieve the last ounce of gloss.

Holograms are caused by incorrect use of a rotary, ie not breaking the polish down fully, moving too quickly and or applying too much pressure etc. Rotary use therefore requires more skill and technique from the user than a DA and takes time to master. Not everyone has the patience or capability to do this whereas a DA will achieve 98% of what a rotary can whilst being far easier to use and safer to operate.

Looks like Mike has got the hang of jewelling using the rotary in the video below.






Alan W


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## MBRuss (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks Stangalang. And thanks for confirming what separates jewelling from finishing. I had just classed jewelling as "extra finishing" or further refining the final finish. That said, on my hard VW paint I struggled to notice the difference between compounding with M105 and polishing with M205, so I suspect I'd struggle to notice the difference that jewelling produced, on my car at least.

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