# Wax Works



## Otto

After some interest from you all, here it is

*Wax Works Thread.*

In this thread I will share with you my experiences of making carnauba wax and while I am not a professional, I have made some very good waxes after experimenting with a recipe given to me by my father which was used a long time ago.

All methods should be easily accessible for someone to action in their home with improvised equipment in places.

The intention is to:

* Provide some recipes that work and perform pretty well.

* Explain the basics of the process of making wax.

* Explain what equipment is used and where it can be purchased.

* Provide a forum for all of us to forward ideas and us to try these ideas in the hope we might make a group breakthrough.

* For those of us who live close together there is a potential for people to share/exchange products between ourselves. Some ingredients can be expensive when purchased in minimal amounts.

* Explore more in depth processes and document our findings for all to access.

Let's start a HomeBrew craze and see if we can discover something new and improved.

*Bottom line is this:*

_Using your own wax which is made how you like it is one of the best things I think a detailer can do and for a fraction of the money that some the waxes cost thesedays._

*Onto WaxWorks..*

This post will talk about the core components of waxes in brief to give you a brief introduction.

*Carnauba Wax*
The staple ingredient in waxes. The % of content is displayed in different ways by wax manufacturers which is a cause of frequent debate.

Carnuaba wax is hard and brittle and it is commonly though that the content dictates durability and shine etc. We shall explore this later.

*Other Waxes*
Beeswax, Montan wax, candelila wax, paraffin wax and micro-crystalline wax are just a few other waxes. Other waxes can affect consistency, water behaviour and durability of the finished article but I am yet to test each one to give clear tested answers but in this thread we will.

*Solvent*
The solvent aids application and removal of the wax onto the car. You add a solvent so the wax will spread onto the car. Leave for a set period of time and the solvent will expire leaving behind only the other wax contents. Some solvents evaporate faster than others which can affect time taken to cure. A large determining factor behind solvents used in homebrews has seemed to be smell.

*Oils*
Probably the most diverse wide ranging ingredient you can get. Oils can affect almost everything about the wax from texture, lubricity, durability and beading. There are countless different oils you can use. There are different types of oils available of which the two main types are carriers oils and essential oils. Essential oils are what I like to think of as a pure oil where as a carrier oil is an essential oil diluted into a carrier such as sunflower oil. Therefore essential oils should pack more punch.

*Colours*
Colours come as powders, wax or liquid/oil and again like oils are very diverse. The intensity of colours has to be experimented with to get exactly how you like and everyone has preferences to which form of colour they like whether it be powder,oil or wax.

*Scents*
Just like colours there are loads of scents available and not all of them smell like the packaging says so it can be very subjective to the individual. Bottom line is you have to experiment and see.

The above should give you a basic understanding of what waxes typically contain.

It is my intention to go into great detail of each ingredient group and then into each ingredient to develop and comprehensive understanding of what values and downsides each ingredients brings to the party so you can make an informed assessment as to which ingredients you would like to use.

*Equipment*

Scales to weigh amounts accurately

Pyrex beakers to blend the wax in

A double boiler or a pot to use to boil water within to melt the wax and warm solvents etc

Thermometer to monitor the temp of the ingredients being heated

Pipette or syringe to extract liquids from containers

Stirrers

Pot/s to pour into

*Combining the ingredients*

Onto a basic recipe to start you all off with instructions on how you can make it at home.

Carnauba Wax 13g (26%)
Beeswax 2g (4%)
Low-Odour Spirit 20g (40%)
Coconut Oil 10g (20%)
Sun Oil 5g (10%)

I use two pyrex beakers: one for the waxes and one for the oils and solvents.

1. Measure out your ingredients. Place your carnauba and beeswax into the large beaker.

2. Measure the correct amount of Coconut Oil, Sunflower oil and LO White Spirit into the smaller beaker. Place a lid on top to avoid any evaporation.

3. Half fill a small pot, put it on to heat and place the beaker with the waxes into the pot. Visually monitor the wax so you can see when they are melted/melting.

4. Do not allow the water to boil vigorously. Ideally you want it to simmer away on an almost boiling temperature. Monitor the waxes as they heat and when almost fully melted move to step 5.

5. Now add the beaker of solvent and oils to warm up. It is important to note the flash point of the solvent used because if you heat the solvent too much then there is the chance it could flash/ignite. This should only happen if heated past the temp specified as the flash point. I heat the solvents to 75degrees so that when mixed with the waxes, the solution dosnt reduce below the melting point of the waxes.

6. Pour the solvents/oils into the wax beaker whilst giving it a stir and then pour into the container in which the wax will live.

7. I will explain colours and scents on the next thread

There you have it. A simple but effective wax. Beading is pretty good although not spectacular and durability has been around 6 weeks when I've used this. Application is very easy and so is removal with easy buffing off.

From here you can adjust the recipe how you like. Change the oil used or solvent. You could use more wax and less oil or more oil and less wax. What I would say is to keep the amount set as 50g and if you reduce say 1g beeswax then add 1g oil. I do this because it keep the % easy to track and then you can easily compare %s of products and attributes of the waxes.

Thanks for reading.
I'll upload more information regularly as I test and share my findings.
I've been very busy so this is just a quick upload and I will upload images as soon as I get a chance.

This is only the start...


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## MDC250

Subscribed, very interesting


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## cragglemieSTer

This is exactly what i want haha, subscribed. thanks otto


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## Geordieexile

Subscribed, this looks very interesting.


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## JacobDuBois

Can you suggest the best place the purchase the equipment and solutions etc. Looks very interesting. Thanks


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## cipriani

how many ml of wax does that basic recipe create?


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## JacobDuBois

cipriani said:


> how many ml of wax does that basic recipe create?


50ml I would have thought?


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## Otto

Yes. I will try to recommend where to buy stuff as best I can.

Generally speaking I use ebay for most stuff.
Pyrex beakers, lab stirrers etc are all really good over improvised stuff if you can.

Ill upload pics of all the equipment as soon as I can and some pics of the blending process so you can all see better.


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## Otto

cipriani said:


> how many ml of wax does that basic recipe create?


I dont usually measure in ml as I do it all by weight.

That said, the finish product weighs approx 50g but fills a 50ml jar almost to the brim so I would estimate around 60-70ml but that is just an estimate.


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## chrisc

what supplier you reccomend for the fragrence oils


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## Otto

chrisc said:


> what supplier you reccomend for the fragrence oils


Hi Chris,
I use naissance. Ive had poor customer service using then on eBay but through their site they are okay.

http://enaissance.co.uk/

They have a large selection of oils including lotus oil!!!
Not cheap though

Otto


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## chrisc

thanks how would they differ from these i have used then?
and should i use them?
http://www.4candles.co.uk/candle-making-fragrance/escentscia-oils.html


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## Otto

chrisc said:


> thanks how would they differ from these i have used then?
> and should i use them?
> http://www.4candles.co.uk/candle-making-fragrance/escentscia-oils.html


My bad. The website I recommended was for oils in general.
I have used the 4candles for scented oils and the oils are not bad although the smells can be questionable.

I add the fragrance oil at the end once all ingredients are mixed but before the pour.
I use a syringe to hold the exact amount I need and then just squeeze it in when ready..


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## chrisc

i just use the 3 ingrediants from dodo personaly and used the fragrence listed which the only problem i have now they seem to have sweated a little but not used them for a good few weeks and not put them in the fridge either.
yet the fragrence free ones have not sweated at all
On the 200ml tubs
And bubblegum from them is very nice just dont get any neat on your hands it stinks for ages


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## Alfieharley1

http://www.greygate.com/product-category/rawmaterials/

Have a look at this supplier.
They are 2mi uses away from my house so I could help someone out if they need wax and I'll send it them.


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## AlexTsinos

I just Subscribed.


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## Otto

*Update- 20 Oct 2014*

Hi all,

I'm glad to see there is such interest in this thread. I will try to keep updates regular with small chunks of information at a time so it's not an information overload for someone starting afresh.

Update today is to outline the first and main ingredient; Carnuaba Wax Flakes.

T3 Grade Carnauba Wax Flakes


As you may be able to see from the image above, carnauba wax is very hard and brittle. Carnuaba Wax is described the hardest natural wax and it is what is promoted as the ingredient which provides the shine and the protection in a natural carnauba wax.
It comes in flakes and grades T1, T3 or T4. The grades are given based on the level of purification and colour of the product. You will often see/read claims of the purest Grade T1 White Carnauba being used in specific waxes. 
The grade T1 carnauba is visibly whiter which is good for a lighter coloured wax but even the colour is not fully white. T1 carnauba is often shown as a powder and because of the way the light reflects off a powder as opposed to flakes, it looks whiter than it is but ultimatley it is still just bleached.
There is a significant demand for T1 carnauba in the cosmetic/pharmaceutical industry as a carnauba coated medical pill for example is more attractive for someone to swallow if it's white rather than an off yellow one.
I would buy whichever grade you wish as I have tested T1 against T3 and seen no significant difference. This is not to say there is or isn't a difference but I could not measure any significant differnce in durability, beading or shine/gloss. Maybe if a gloss meter was employed there could have been some minimal diference but not through the naked eye. On this basis I would not bother unless I wanted a whiter wax.
Carnauba wax flakes can be purchased through various outlets but I find eBay a good source as you are able to easily compare prices. As a guide you can purchase approx 1kg of Carnauba Wax for £10-15 delivered. Based on approx 25% Carnauba wax content by weight of a finished wax this would be good for around 4kg of carnuaba wax which would last most of us a very very long time.
For the blending process be aware that carnauba wax has a melting point of approx 84 degrees Celsius.

*In the next post I will discuss wax makers varied claims on carnuaba wax content and provide examples of different methods of this including the effect it has.*

I'll leave you with a few images of the wax recipe in the original post so you can see the light..

Just poured


The cooling process - No process really. Just left to cool naturally in warm water.





Beading 2 weeks after application and 1 wash


Has anyone made the recipe yet?

Thanks for reading
Denis Otto


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## Spoony

Thanks for the update. Look forward to reading some more. 

I've not got the time to try this at the moment but it is certainly peaking my interest.


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## JacobDuBois

Definately gonna attempt this soon once I read some more. Cheers Otto


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## Jack

Thanks for taking the time to do this Otto, very interesting read


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## cipriani

So does anyone know what differentiates the different grades of carnauba wax? Longer to melt etc ?


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## Otto

cipriani said:


> So does anyone know what differentiates the different grades of carnauba wax? Longer to melt etc ?


The difference between T1 and T3 is mainly defined by the level of purification and bleaching of colour ie. T1 is technically purer and whiter than T3.

However, as I said in post #17, I have not been able to measure any significance difference between T1 and T3 with exception of the visible colour.

Melting point of T1 is highly likely no different to T3. Also because Carnauba Wax is a natural substance it is likely that there is minor variations of it's properties as you would expect with any natural product.


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## cipriani

im going to use your recipe with T3 and the the 3 dodo juice products and compare, should be interesting.


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## Otto

*Update- 23 Oct 2014 Carnauba Content*

Today I want to outline Carnauba Percentages and how this can be measured in numerous ways.

When it comes to automotive waxes, Carnauba Content is good and the higher is usually seen as better. Personally I feel that the impression is painted that the higher the Carnauba content, the better the product in terms of Looks and Durability. This is supported by the fact that within particular brands of wax, the retail price increases in line with the Carnuaba content %. This is true with numerous wax brands.

Further to this there is often confusion and/or lack of clarity on the actual Carnauba content of waxes stated by the wax makers.

There is a few ways in which you can measure the Carnauba Wax % content of a wax.

1. The first is to state the amount of Carnauba in percentage of total wax content. Therefore in a 200g pot of wax which contains 25g Carnauba Wax and 25g Beeswax then the stated Carnauba Wax percentage would be 50%. This is because out the total wax content, not including solvents and oils, half is Carnauba Wax and half is Beeswax. The example that comes to mind of this is R222/P21S 100% wax. This is obviously not 100% Carnauba Wax or it would just be a block as hard as concrete. The 100% will almost certainly mean that of the total wax element of that product 100% of it is Carnauba Wax and therefore contains no other waxes such as Beeswax.

2. The second method would be to state the Carnauba Wax percentage according to the volume. This method I think can be particularly misleading and below I will explain why.

I have conducted an experiment to explain and prove why this is often a poor method to measure Carnauba Wax percentage.

Below you can see my 100ml Glass Beaker which clearly weighs 52g


If I want to make 100ml of Carnauba Wax with a Carnauba Percentage of 50% by volume then I could fill the beaker with Carnauba Wax to the 50ml line as so. This is technically 50% volume of 100ml as it visible.



Let's weigh the 50ml volume and see what it weighs:


The beaker weighed 52g and the beaker and the 50ml volume of Carnauba wax weighs 77g. So 50ml volume of wax of weighs only 25g. This is partially due to the fact that the Carnuaba Wax is in the form of flakes and therefore the 50ml volume is actually made up of Carnuaba Wax flakes and lots of tiny pockets of air. How much space does all those pockets of air take up.

Well let's look at this a little bit closer. I melted the Carnauba Wax to show how much actual volume in ml was present. Approximately 32ml. 32ml is a lot less than 50ml. 64% of 50ml to be precise which a huge difference when you think that these Carnauba Wax percentages are displayed in percentages.


This is the first issue. Some wax makers state the Carnauba Wax content as percentage of volume but then sell the final product by weight. How can this give accurate reflection of the Carnauba wax percentage? It dosnt because you are mixing units of measurement.

To fairly and accurately measure the Carnauba Content in volume you would firstly need to ensure there is no pockets of air among the Carnauba Wax flakes. This could be done by melting the Carnauba Wax flakes first and then pouring the melted Carnauba Wax to the desired ml. This way there would be no air gaps because it's a liquid. Then the finished product would have to be sold in ml and not as a weight.

Volume can be done but can easily be misleading if not done correctly.

3. The 3rd method would be to measure all your ingredients and the finished product in weight. This way you are using a standardised method of measurement across the board. This is my preferred method because the results are accurate and easy to monitor. 50g of ingredients containing 15g of Carnuaba Wax flakes equals a wax with 30% Carnauba Wax content. This does not take into account any solvent that may evaporate during the process but is as close and as fair as is necessary in my opinion.

If you did in fact want to calculate the % content of ingredients after then you could simply measure the weight of the finished wax product minus the weight of the pot. If you had 50g of ingredients and are left with 49g afterwards which would indicate 1g of solvent loss. If there was 15g Carnauba Wax ingredient then the percentages are so:
15g of 50g is 30% Not accounting for solvent loss
and
15g of 49g is 30.6% Accounting for 1g solvent loss

Measurement methods show how wax makers can manipulate or misrepresent the actual quantities in order to make a wax more appealing.

Have you all seen the Dodo Juice Flat Earth Paperweight which demonstrates how 70% Carnauba Wax content is pretty useless.

I made just used the 25g of Carnauba Wax I melted above and blended it with 25g solvent. It is now cooling...

I suspect it'll be pretty useless as well. The guys from Dodo are pretty good and honest. Forthcoming with information if you search their previous posts and they state that Carnauba Wax becomes very difficult around the 30% content mark referring to actual content.

Thanks for reading

In the next post I will taking a good look at Candelilla Wax and making some overdue comparisons to Carnuaba Wax. Which is rarer, more expensive and what values can each provide as they are very different. One is spoke of significantly less but theoretically presents much better attributes. I'll start the process on actually testing to see which is better and why...

I'll also update you on the 50% by weight Carnauba Wax once it's fully cooled...:thumb:

Denis Otto


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## B16grf

Denis, a quick one that I found out a few weeks ago, adding additional waxes can alter melting points such as bees wax added to carnauba @ 5% raises melting point another 2 degrees


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## cipriani

Got some 200ml PET pots in I'll be starting my first batch soon.


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## _Steven67

I've tried looking but can't find anywhere to buy. I appreciate that you'll probably not want to give me where you use and that I should find my own but I've tried.


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## Otto

_Steven67 said:


> I've tried looking but can't find anywhere to buy. I appreciate that you'll probably not want to give me where you use and that I should find my own but I've tried.


What you after Steven?
I'll help wherever I can.


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## chrisc

Have got some bubblegum sweet banana summer fruits and ck if any one wants a swap's.


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## _Steven67

Otto said:


> What you after Steven?
> I'll help wherever I can.


I'm looking to find somewhere to get the starting items to make my first wax. I know where to get the pots etc but can't find the ingredients. :newbie:


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## suspal

smashing thread.


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## vek

steven67 take a look on ebay,i just had a quick search & found stuff easily,hope this helps.


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## cragglemieSTer

Look for beauty pots. Millions come up.
Am awaiting delivery of all my gear to brew mine shortly


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## LRTom

One point I think needs discussing is cooking time.

How long do you cook the wax for? And how long once the solvents are added? Does more time means better mixing of ingredients?

Personally, I finish cooking the wax as soon as it is all dissolved, and then add the solvent giving it a quick stir then pouring so as to minimise solvent loss. Maybe cooking for longer is better, I don't know I haven't tried yet.


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## cipriani

I got my pots here >> http://www.naturallythinking.com/categories/Bottles-&-Jars/


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## cragglemieSTer

LRTom that process sounds bang on to me, this minimises solvent evaporation. also a good idea to "lid" the pots once the wax has began to set too.


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## Otto

LRTom said:


> One point I think needs discussing is cooking time.
> 
> How long do you cook the wax for? And how long once the solvents are added? Does more time means better mixing of ingredients?
> 
> Personally, I finish cooking the wax as soon as it is all dissolved, and then add the solvent giving it a quick stir then pouring so as to minimise solvent loss. Maybe cooking for longer is better, I don't know I haven't tried yet.


Yes, we will look at this point further on.
Your process is pretty much the same as I do anyway. As said, don't heat the final mix longer than it needs to otherwise you will just facilitate solvent escape with ultimately effects the final composition of the blend.

There is and will be a lot to discuss in this thread and we will get round to covering as much as I can. However, where you have adhoc questions just fire away or if you prefer PM me and I will help as best I can.

Otto


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## Otto

_Steven67 said:


> I'm looking to find somewhere to get the starting items to make my first wax. I know where to get the pots etc but can't find the ingredients. :newbie:


naissance.co.uk have waxes and oils and are priced fairly well.

I generally use ebay as it allows for easy price comparison. It is good especially when you are starting out and want to try ingredients out. Once you know exactly what you want and like you can specialise where to get certain items from.

But for now ebay is an easy one stop shop.


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## cragglemieSTer

cipriani said:


> I got my pots here >> http://www.naturallythinking.com/categories/Bottles-&-Jars/


Looks decent does that site mate. nice share


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## camerashy

How are you heating your waxes and solvents do you just place the beakers in a pan of water to boil or do you have, say, a small 2 ringed portable electric hob


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## cragglemieSTer

Never over a naked flame, small Pyrex in water just below boiling. So simmering wait for wax to completely melt then add solvent etc. Stir and remove and pour.


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## _Steven67

vek said:


> steven67 take a look on ebay,i just had a quick search & found stuff easily,hope this helps.


Yeah, I had found them on ebay but didn't know if it was the right stuff or if it would work. Thanks for the help everyone.


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## cipriani

Lidl quite often has those 2 ring portable cookers for £20-30


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## percymon

Great thread - I read quite a few of the home brew threads before i had a pop earlier in the year. Needless to say it took me quite a few attempts before i got anything resembling useable.

After my experiences i would strongly recommend using Otto's initial thread recipe and the % of the various elemens (wax, oils, solvents) as its very easy to just add a bit of this, add a bit of that as you get carried away.


My final attempt (#6 !!) was a 30% wax , 30% oil and 40% solvent by weight recipe which is in line with Ottos opener.

It spread, cured and wiped off OK but the protection wasn't great - beadign pretty much gone after 3 weeks/washes. 

It was an interesting little project, but after buying various ingredients, scents, colourss and the pots it propbably owed me ca £40, that money would have bought me a very good carnauba wax which would outlast and outshine my homebrew. I still have materials left so I watch with interest Ottos improved recipes


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## Otto

*Quick Update 28 Oct 2014*

Hi all,

Nice to see a growing following and people sharing ideas and knowledge etc. Exactly what I wanted this thread to be about.

Just wanted to share a quick update on that wax I made in my last update 50% by weight Carnauba and show you some of the products that I use to assist you with what to look for.

First up, the wax


Pretty much a complete crumbly mess!! Pushed my thumb into it and just gave up like a rich tea biscuit.:lol:
This gives an idea of what it is like trying to get such a high carnuaba % into a wax. I should add fairly, that I did only add solvent and Carnuaba wax and that the addition of oils etc could have made this better but I have never been able to get anywhere near 50%. Not to say it isn't possible but widespread discussion and the general understanding is that 50% by weight is pretty unlikely.

Anyway. Some of the equipment is puzzling some of you so I would like to show you some of the stuff I use.

Beakers


I use these made by Thermo Scientific if I'm correct. I have:
50ml
100ml
and 150ml
Search these on ebay as I paid less than £10 for these delivered and they are excellent with the spout and straight sides allowing for easy pouring and cleaning.

Stirrers


This little useful piece of equipment came as part of a 100 strong gang and cost only £3 or so. Again from ebay. Search for 'stirrer' and/or 'spatula' and select the laboratory equipment category of item on the ebay search menu.

These are so good because they are small meaning that they dont carry excessive amounts of product on them and they are robust and easy to clean or dispose of after each use seeing as they are only 3p or so each.

For heating a pot with water in on the cooker is fine but just be cautious not to burn your home down!!!!

For pots I like to use 'Naturally Thinking' as someone recommended already. Good range of glass, plastic and metal and a selection lids and is usually cheaper than ebay and 'ampulla'. Ampulla do however have a greater selection in my opinion including acrylic pots like the ones BMD and M&K use available in 30ml and 50ml if I'm correct. They are a bit more costly though so I would recomment saving for once you get a recipe you really like first and use cheaper pots for the experimenting.

For pots in general look on ebay as you usually get smaller quantities cheaper. I got these for £10 for 20 delivered with lids.


Reference pots I may be able to source some glass jars which are frosted with white lids for around £1 each but I will need to check if the guy still has them. I bought a few a while back so if he still has them Ill see if he can open up some kind of pricing specifically for you guys.

I'll try to post up the next intended topic of Carnuaba Wax Vs Candelilla Wax tomorrow if I get the time and start an ongoing test for us to monitor.

Back tomorrow.

Hopefully.:wave:


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## camerashy

Extremely helpful to detail the equipment Otto, Thanks


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## B16grf

A good one for all that's needed in basic wax making is www.soapkitchenonline.co.uk


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## B16grf

It's not linking to right one it should only link to www.soapkitchenonline.co.uk not thesoapkitchen.co.uk


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## Otto

*Carnauba Vs Candelilla 29 Oct 2014*

*Candelilla Wax*


Hard, brittle and very shiny which can result in added gloss of a wax. The melting point is around 70 degrees which is lower than carnauba by approx 14. Candelilla wax can be expensive in comparison to other waxes such as Carnauba due the limited production of the product in comparison. Below you can see comparative values for production and cost of these waxes.

Annual production and cost per 500g:
Carnauba Wax 22,000 tonnes (2006) £5.35 (T3)
Candelilla Wax 3,000 tonnes (2005) £8.76

These were the best prices I could find for 500g excluding delivery. Get on a search engine for yourself and have a look. While some of you may very well be able to find some cheaper prices the one thing you will all notice is that there is a lot more places from which Carnauba Wax is available compared to Candelilla wax which is obviously harder to source by comparison.

This is the point at which I thought;
'Why is there so much emphasis on carnauba wax being this rare, hard to source, expensive ingredient always promoted so highly by wax makers?
Sure carnauba wax the hardest natural wax available but can we actually say it is the best wax ingredient to use for a natural automotive wax?
Does the hardness of the wax have a direct impact on durability, gloss and water behaviour? Carnauba Wax is currently the default ingredient with most wax products clearly promoting that they contain carnauba wax but in some cases the wax.
Is it all just marketing or is there evidence to support carnauba wax is better? I can not answer this question now but I will experiment over the coming weeks and months to determine if there is any evidence to deny or support my thinking. Either way at least we can have some evidence and study on the subject.

My thinking is this; Carnauba wax is certainly harder but Candelilla Wax visibly has more gloss and benefits from a lower melting point. My theory is that due to a lower melting point, the candelilla wax could be easier to work than carnauba wax. The result, in theory, would dictate that you will require less solvent to be able to make candelilla wax workable when compared to carnauba wax. This should result in more wax on the car upon each application which could dictate better protection and aesthetic properties.

I will work from the recipe in post #01 to analyse the difference between Carnauba and Candelilla.
I will, however, increase the content of wax in the Candelilla recipe by 1g and remove 1g of solvent.
The two recipes will be:

Test #02
Candelilla 16g
Low-Odour Spirit	19g
Coconut Oil 10g
Sun Oil 5g

Test #03
Carnauba 15g
Low-Odour Spirit	20g
Coconut Oil 10g
Sun Oil 5g

By doing this we should be able to see first-hand if and what differences exist between the two waxes allowing us to make our own assessment on the waxes rather than just conforming to marketing hype.

Stay tuned as I'm now going to go and blend these recipes quickly and get back to you with some images etc before the night is out……..


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## Otto

Candelilla Wax Blend

Here it is melting


Melted


Here is the wax just poured


Cooling off


Cooling more


Here it is pretty much cooled compeltely


This looks like a rich and creamy butter. Feels very nice to the touch but is not completely cooled yet. I like to leave them for a day or so before using them to fully set.

Carnauaba is under way also.....


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## Otto

Here is the Carnauba recipe..

Just poured


You can see how dark it is by comparison. The other important point was that the carnauba started cooling much quicker than the Candelilla recipe so had to be poured much quicker.

Here the two are from tonight.

#02 Vs #03
Candelilla Vs Carnauba


Thanks for taking the time to check out some more wax experimentation.
I will be applying these on the weekend so will update with application etc then

Until next time guys and girls:wave::wave::wave::thumb:


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## cipriani

Are you just using regular sunflower oil?


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## Otto

cipriani said:


> Are you just using regular sunflower oil?


It is a 100% pure natural sunflower oil from naissance.co.uk
For skincare etc rather than frying food lol

The cold pressed oils are very good if you take a look


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## cipriani

Regarding coconut oil, as far as i can tell it comes as a paste? Is this the stuff to be using and just melt it in?


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## Otto

cipriani said:


> Regarding coconut oil, as far as i can tell it comes as a paste? Is this the stuff to be using and just melt it in?


Hi Cipriani,

You started on making your wax yet?

Regarding coconut oil. It is an oil but will often be solid at room temperature...
Like this on the right:


It's meting point is so low that once you handle it in your hands it'll melt. Very similar to butter I guess.


----------



## cipriani

Ahh I see, I'm stuck offshore just now but I have everything available when I get home


----------



## Otto

*Canuaba Vs Candelilla 2 Nov 2014*

A few days ago I blended the original recipe and made a Candelilla version which had minor alterations.

Yesterday I applied them to my daily driver. Carnuaba (#01) was applied right of the wing and the Candelilla (#02) was applied to the left. The wheel centre was the point of separation.

Here's the images


Application was easy enough for both the waxes.
Canuaba (#01) was easier to apply however. Is felt slightly less grabby than Candelilla (#02) which displayed the same characteristic you get with lots of beeswax in a blend.

Here is the beading. A quick mist and spray with water revealed some small but uniform beading. I have not tested sheeting yet but I intend to do this in a week or 2 time at the time in which we would normally wash our cars.






What is good about this, is it shows first hand, what the results of the recipe given on post #01. I will update in a week or two and report on performance of blends #01 and #02 and we can see what the situation is.

For the next thread does anyone have anything in particular they would like to see or experiment.


----------



## cipriani

I've been busy working on lots of ideas and have written a basic formula allowing you to easily calculate various wax recipes and comparing each property by its relative density and using that to measure the weight to ml ratio. Very helpful when holding a ratio and up scaling/ down scaling your brew. I have the added input of some chemical engineers and a physicist that have some free time offshore just now. Once I get home I'll be able to post up some results to.


----------



## Otto

cipriani said:


> I've been busy working on lots of ideas and have written a basic formula allowing you to easily calculate various wax recipes and comparing each property by its relative density and using that to measure the weight to ml ratio. Very helpful when holding a ratio and up scaling/ down scaling your brew. I have the added input of some chemical engineers and a physicist that have some free time offshore just now. Once I get home I'll be able to post up some results to.


You sound like you got some serious stuff going down wherever you are with a chemical engineers and a physicist!!!:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho

Where are you located. I want to know so I can come and collect a super wax from you dude:thumb::thumb:


----------



## cipriani

Haha it's more a matter of right place right time, I had written up a wax recipe a few months back based on what I knew at the time but never got round to doing anything on the practical front. Unfortunately I work abroad a lot which sounds good but isn't especially when your in a camp somewhere in the Middle East! Anyway as you may off guessed I work in the oil industry (aviation) and get to meet some very talented people. I am sitting in the North Sea right now and have been unable to fly due to weather today so managed to get some valuable time with one of the process engineers, I'm hoping to put what I've gathered so far into practice within the next week or 2. I will also give your #1 a go at the same time and share my original blend and see what people think as it's quite different to some. I'm in Edinburgh but will post out samples once I have something useable. 

Mike


----------



## AlexTsinos

Thaks a lot guys. This topic is amazing. Mike we are waiting for news soon.


----------



## cipriani

Here goes!


----------



## Spoony

Live video feed from your kitchen?? Where is it. 

Good luck with the wax making.


----------



## cipriani

That's my first ever tester cooling off now! 
A brief run down of what went in was 
T1 Carnauba 
White beeswax
Low odour spirit 
Coconut oil
Purified sunflower oil.

Seems to have gone to plan so far, filled a 75ml old hair gel tub until my small testers arrive in the snail mail. Like I said I have made a formula in the shape of a spread sheet that will take the guess work out of how much of each ingredient you need to add. For example you tell it you have a 100ml tub and the percentages of each item you want and it will tell you the weight and ml you need to add based on the relative density of each ingredient. Please note you must be above 15C for this to be accurate. I will upload the basic version to Dropbox and share the link for you all to use  happy brewing.


----------



## Spoony

Looks great, I'll need to jump on board. Wait till we get in to the various different waxes and what not.

Otto I apologise if this skips a few lessons but some research I've done I came across this:



















I would assume that you could use grams as the unit for example.

Maybe we can begin to co-create some waxes. I just need to get shopping.

3 and 4 are of particular interest but I need to research the ingredients, any possible tweaks/substitutes and that first.

A little on ceraflux:


----------



## cipriani

Spoony said:


> Looks great, I'll need to jump on board. Wait till we get in to the various different waxes and what not.
> 
> Otto I apologise if this skips a few lessons but some research I've done I came across this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would assume that you could use grams as the unit for example.
> 
> Maybe we can begin to co-create some waxes. I just need to get shopping.
> 
> 3 and 4 are of particular interest but I need to research the ingredients, any possible tweaks/substitutes and that first.
> 
> A little on ceraflux:


Thats interesting, a few ingredients there worth looking into.  There are a few parameters that should be considered for each ingredient which ill go into in detail later as its a bit late now. 
Anyway heres a link to my wax volume calculator, I will keep the link active forever. Please feel free to make adjustments and share any revisions 

>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wyqnnqmckrkddu2/Wax volume calculator - Public version.xlsx?dl=0 <<<


----------



## Spoony

I should add at this stage I know very little but happy to learn along with you and have a play about. But you're right it's getting late now, and I'm a bit tired to think myself lol.

Found some fragrances here not sure if it helps http://www.scentperfique.co.uk/shop.asp?category=Christmas Fragrances 2014


----------



## cipriani

I'm in Edinburgh btw! Cheers for the link


----------



## Spoony

cipriani said:


> I'm in Edinburgh btw! Cheers for the link


Not a million miles away. I'm west of Glasgow so about 60 miles from the big smoke.


----------



## cipriani

This is my latest recipe. #7 already! Now to wait on more tubs coming and still waiting on my 50ml's coming. Over a week now!

I decided to fill a 200ml today as I was pretty confident in the recipe, unfortunately I lost about 50ml in an "accident" so only about 150 but that's still plenty to try it out.
























As you can see there is some flaking, this is down to the high wax content I believe.


----------



## Spoony

I'm going to grab the ingredients for the recipe of number 4. Montan wax will be the most difficult to obtain.


----------



## cipriani

Update, tried out #7 tonight, it's substantially different to the previous 6! It was difficult to work it into a damp sponge however when it did go on it spread really nicely. I'm not sure how I managed to have good spread with such high wax content. It went on thin and coverage was really good. 10 mins to cure this one which is the longest so far, buffed off easily if anything a little harder to remove than the others but still good. The gloss was good, not as good as I hoped if I'm invest but a base to work from. The sheeting on the other hand was great and as a durability test applied it to my iPhone screen the thing that gets theist wear and tear around here! More to follow


----------



## _Steven67

Just need a bit of help, think I'm totally on the wrong order. 
Here's what I have got in my basket for the first recipe

 Carnauba wax flakes 
 Pure Beaded Beeswax 
 Low Odour Spirits 
 Coconut oil 

Where can I get the sun oil form ?

So confused.


----------



## smegal

_Steven67 said:


> Just need a bit of help, think I'm totally on the wrong order.
> Here's what I have got in my basket for the first recipe
> 
> Carnauba wax flakes
> Pure Beaded Beeswax
> Low Odour Spirits
> Coconut oil
> 
> Where can I get the sun oil form ?
> 
> So confused.


Sub flower oil.


----------



## cipriani

Purified sunflower oil can be found on eBay


----------



## cipriani

Here is #8 cooling off, will report back with findings. This has a drastically different ratio to the previous 7, should be much more workable this one


----------



## cipriani

And here's 8 fully hardened with #9 just poured. Different again!


----------



## cipriani

Update from the kitchen! #8 was rubbish, way to hard although when I did manage to apply it the finish was really good. But just not workable!

#9 was much better but still harder than I wanted. I began to notice something different about the wax after adding colour, can't put my finger on it but the consistency was odd like areas that were harder than others. So this time I have taken #9 and gone all natural for a sort of #9.1 I'm pretty confident in this one so made a few.


----------



## Spoony

You have been busy!


----------



## cipriani

Yeah you could say that


----------



## _Steven67

Looks like my first wax will be Christmas scente! Thanks spoony


----------



## _Steven67

Spent £50 ordering everything I need. Can't wait to start.


----------



## cipriani

Goodluck, waiting to see what you come up with.


----------



## cipriani

Small update from myself:

Like primed the boot of the BM today applied a layer of cherry glaze then a layer of what is now #11. I like!


















Beadage!










This shows my wax on the bootlid compared to 2 layers of Autosmart wax on the rest of the car.


----------



## Jonnybbad

very nice beading


----------



## cipriani

Thanks man


----------



## AlexTsinos

nice job, well done.


----------



## Rikbett

Good thread really good read I'm in the middle of making my own homebrew wax aswell got a few recipes I need to try with help from the first post on this thread.


----------



## cipriani

Some more progress.. I bought this Honda logo to use as a tester for my wax.


----------



## cipriani

Wax applied to the whole car


----------



## cipriani




----------



## cipriani

Here she is then! 15 year old Honda Logo 135,000 miles.. Looking good!


----------



## cragglemieSTer

Coming along nicely bud. 
But
You bought a car to test wax on 
That's legendary lol


----------



## cipriani

It kind of just happened, got it cheap real cheap


----------



## Otto

Hi again,

I have been extremely busy recently hence the lack of presence around here.:tumbleweed::tumbleweed::tumbleweed:

Firstly, thank you very much to Spoony for the recipes posted and to Cipriani who was taken wax testing to the extreme and bought a car just to test wax on!!!! and for showing us what's been keeping him busy and posting the pics up etc.
And to everyone else who has contributed in someway or another

Who else has had a go at making any wax yet??
Be sure to let us know how you have been getting on.


For myself, I will update on the Candelilla Wax Vs Carnuaba Wax tomorrow. It would have been three weeks and I believe there will be a conclusive answer there to be seen.

I am awaiting information on solvents so I will update on this soon as well as the early stages on emulsions to use as a base for Quick Detailers and Lubricants.

Catch up with you all tomorrow


----------



## cipriani

Take your time mate, progress at my end has been good. Feels like things have slowed down since handing out testers to detailers around central Scotland for feedback. But rest assured I'm still working on a few things.


----------



## cragglemieSTer

Emulsions for qd I'd defo info I would like otto. Much appreciated for the effort and time put into this


----------



## Otto

*Update- 23 Nov 2014 Candelilla Vs Carnuaba*

So 3 weeks ago I applied two waxes to the wing of my car.

One only had Candelilla Wax and the other only Carnuaba Wax. I wanted to experiment with whether Carnuaba is the be all when it comes to Waxes...

The panel was cleaned just now and I tested the sheeting and beading as well as the looks and visual.

The results:
Sheeting was slightly slower with the Candelilla than Carnuaba but both were not bad but not great. Very average speed of sheeting but left the panel very clear and free from water mostly. Beading too was not great but not bad either after 3 weeks.

*Candelilla*
Beading is a little more uniformed in shape with little surface tension.





*Carnuaba*
Beading here is less uniformed in shape with similar surface tension.





On the whole the results are slightly better for Candelilla in terms of beading but better for Carnauba in terms of sheeting. General results overall are not great but not bad either and it is important that we remember this is a very basic recipe consisting of simple ingredients which are easily mixed and obtained. No special solvent only available in large quantities and no expensive oils either.........
A simple addition which would make these waxes very competitive against others would be the addition of silicone oils which would significantly better the water behavior and durability in line with current waxes on sale now.

I will keep reporting on the durability to see how long it remains effective for.


----------



## JayOW

One thing you will realise is carnauba wax is not the ultimate wax that everyone says it is! Yes people like high Carnauba contents but as soon as they also learn that Carnauba is not the best out there the better! Paraffin wax for example beads and sheets so much better than carnauba ever can! 

You will also realise that it is not as expensive as people make out, How can a company charge you £250 extra for a 15% increase in nuba content, its a joke!

Anyway, thats my input, Just because a wax has a high nuba content it does not mean it should be expensive or good!

I will tell anyone who asks what the nuba percentage is in any of my waxes but the reason I dont advertise it is because its rubbish, it means nothing!


----------



## Otto

Obsession Wax said:


> One thing you will realise is carnauba wax is not the ultimate wax that everyone says it is! Yes people like high Carnauba contents but as soon as they also learn that Carnauba is not the best out there the better! Paraffin wax for example beads and sheets so much better than carnauba ever can!
> 
> You will also realise that it is not as expensive as people make out, How can a company charge you £250 extra for a 15% increase in nuba content, its a joke!
> 
> Anyway, thats my input, Just because a wax has a high nuba content it does not mean it should be expensive or good!
> 
> I will tell anyone who asks what the nuba percentage is in any of my waxes but the reason I dont advertise it is because its rubbish, it means nothing!


I'm so glad to hear you say this Jay.
This is why I wanted to conduct this experiment and others to show the truth behind a lot of this.
I am surprised, however, that not many people have actually commented on my initial findings from the experiment in the previous post that shows Carnuaba is not all it's cracked up to be.

I think we all know deep down really but it's not what people want to hear as it changes the world of detailing significantly dosn't it....


----------



## smegal

People were sold by the "as hard as concrete" hype surrounding carnauba.


----------



## JayOW

Yes it does change the detailing scene a lot but people are also becoming more and more aware as not a lot of people bang on about high nuba percentages anymore... there are better waxes out there... I will send you a PM mate as I can send you a couple of waxes you may struggle to get hold of for your testing if you want... I am more than happy that someone started this thread as it gives people a good look into waxes and the hype surrounding a lot of them...

It's the same when someone says a wax is 100% natural... hmm sulfuric acid is 100% natural too ha


----------



## cipriani

Paraffin on order


----------



## cipriani

Paraffin*


----------



## JayOW

Don't just use paraffin on its own as it's not great... get a little nuba in there and maybe something else too...


----------



## Obi- Dan Karnubi

Totally agree with Jay that high carnauba content doesnt mean a better wax, ive made waxes totally synthetic that compete with a carnauba wax. Ive even developed a wax which is 100% carnauba wax that is also very good. Keep up the good work mate


----------



## Otto

Obi- Dan Karnubi said:


> Totally agree with Jay that high carnauba content doesnt mean a better wax, ive made waxes totally synthetic that compete with a carnauba wax. Ive even developed a wax which is 100% carnauba wax that is also very good. Keep up the good work mate


This is exactly it. A single ingredient dosnt make a wax as so to speak. The combination and the manner in which they are combined is just as important.

How many people know that beeswax is actually an emulsifier if used correctly....


----------



## 20vKarlos

I have just read the entire thread, OK not all of it, but I have the general idea, when it comes time for me to make my own I will be sure to read the entire thread again.

I'd just like to add that its a rather good sign that we are seeing the likes of Obsession and Obi Dan popping their heads into the thread and giving a word or two about procedures! 

shows a great work ethos! well in lads!


----------



## cipriani

Has anyone used my volumes calculator yet?


----------



## cipriani

Little update, here's my winter wax that I've been working on. It isn't the easiest to take off in 2 degrees but no wax is in that cold really that I've used anyway. I've measured the durability of this wax on my BMW and still good after 2 1/2 months so far.
























Some frost beading this morning.


----------



## Bod42

Ok cipriani those pics have sold me, do you mind sharing you recipe if you havent already.


----------



## cipriani

Bod42 said:


> Ok cipriani those pics have sold me, do you mind sharing you recipe if you havent already.


Do you have access to an isoparrafin like exxsol?


----------



## cipriani

Onto #12 now, paraffin wax in this one with caranuba only making up 7.5% by volume. To dark to test now but I will tomorrow, it's a much softer wax this one!


----------



## Bod42

cipriani said:


> Do you have access to an isoparrafin like exxsol?


I can get hold of it.

Edit: Oh crap but only in 168kg barrels


----------



## cipriani

Time to apply #12 my paraffin based wax.




























Cure time: 6 mins @4.5C
Texture: oily at first and spreads well
Removal: very easy 1 pass


----------



## cipriani

Bod42 said:


> I can get hold of it.
> 
> Edit: Oh crap but only in 168kg barrels


There's a place you can get it in 5kg quantities. I'm not home right now so can't remember the website but it's a pretty good way of getting professional chem's. Still from memory £160 but not to bad. You can also look at shellsol T it's just as good as exxsol D80


----------



## Otto

*Update- 07 Dec 2014 More Waxes*

Hi all. Thanks for checking back.

My intention was to move onto some solvents, however, some enquiries have hit dead ends and research is slowing more than a Seicento running on the wrong fuel with 5 occupants...:lol:
I used to own one before anyone asks...

Anyway, instead of giving some half useful information on solvents, I thought it would be better to add to the understanding of waxes a bit more.

Prevously looked at Carnauba and Candelilla but I have a few more that I thought would be worth looking at. So wax blending equipment came out and I got to blending 6 varieties for subsequent testing.


Carnauba Wax
Beeswax
Candelilla Wax
Emulsifying Wax
Paraffin Wax
Soya Wax
Montan wax will be added too but I have not yet received it.

As you may be aware. Carnauba and Candelilla have already been made and tested but this time I changed an oil so to keep the testing standards fair I remade the whole lot independently.

In case anyone wants to replicate any of the waxes made here is the formula used:


Solvent - 4 Units
Wax - 3 Units
Coconut Oil - 2 Units
Almond Oil - 1 Unit

By only changing the waxes used we should be able to fairly see what the difference are between each of the waxes rather than relying on guess work and best estimates.

Here is some of the waxes, all weighed and waiting to be blended.


An hour later and they were all blended and served up ready for some prodding..

*#04 Carnuaba*
As we would expect was pretty hard and dark in colour due to grade used.


*#05 Beeswax*
Very yellow in colour much like a rich butter or margarine. Wouldn't recommend spreading it on toast though. Very soft and easy to melt on your finger/s.


*#06 Candelilla*
As before this is very light in colour and hardness is in between Beeswax and Carnauba.


*#07 Emulsifying Wax*
This is wax I have not yet discussed but it generally used to emulsify wax and water. It can be used to make a quick detailing spray amongst other ingredients but that is a story for another day. Comes in beads like beeswax usually does and it a very light white colour. Once set this looked like it had a crust on top but was soft. Softer than the Beeswax blend and melts easily when in contact with the skin.


*#08 Paraffin Wax*
Very similar to Emulsifying wax in appearance and feel but slightly harder to the touch and dosn't melt as quickly in the fingers.


*#09 Soya Wax*
This came in large flakes and is white in appearance. The softest of all the waxes in question today. Once blended to the above formula it was so soft that at room temperature of 20C it remained like a cream.


And here is today's work together.


These will all be tested side by side on my bonnet to check the following attributes:

Application
Curing Time
Removal
Gloss
Durability
Beading
Sheeting
I hope to apply them before next weekend as I have a 800mile trip in which to put them through their paces....:car:

While I havn't yet applied any of the waxes above, what is interesting is that after being blended their characteristics appear more obvious. This is especially true when you look at the hardness of the waxes and their melting points. While Candelilla and Carnauba are both reasonably hard the others are much softer in comparison. From this we can already make some fair assessments to how they can be used. Soya Wax if used would ideally need to be mixed with a harder wax as to change it from a cream substance to a wax for example. In an emulsion, some of the softer waxes may be easier to mix with water etc. Maybe not...

I will also update on the testing between #02 Carnauba and #03 Candelilla that were made a few weeks back so we can follow that up.

Thanks for looking and I would love to hear your thoughts so far...

Cheers Otto


----------



## Otto

Quick Update
I received some Montan Wax from a helpful friend so thanks to him.

As I said in the previous post I have also blended a Montan version of the formula on the previous post. 

I hope to apply these by Saturday at the latest so wait out for an update on the seven different waxes......

I think its going to interesting to really test them fairly


----------



## cipriani

Looking forward to seeing the results


----------



## Otto

*Update- 14 Dec 2014 Carnauba Vs Candelilla*

First up is a little update on the Carnauba and Candelilla waxes applied to my wing.

The wing was given a wash with Fairy Liquid! I did this for 2 reasons;
1. I needed to clean down the bonnet ready for the application of the other test waxes.
2. I wanted to put these waxes under a bit of pressure to demonstrate their attributes.

The results:
*Candelilla*




As you can see from the images, the beading is loosing it but still present somewhat. The surface tensions has dropped off somewhat as you can see from the top of the beads of water where the contact angle is rubbish. The shape of the beads is not great but not completely terrible. Fairly rounded and uniformed.

*Carnauba*




Same here. You can still see there is the presence of a wax but nothing super impressive. The shapes of the beads here are a lot less uniformed in comparison to the Candelilla wax and0 surface tensions appears to be a little worse also.

I will update on sheeting of both of these when I can too.
Also there is no visible difference in appearance with either of these waxes, however, once washed the whole panel looks very good. That could actually be down to the fact that it's been wet sanded:buffer::thumb::thumb:

*My Conclusion so far at 6 weeks in!!*
Durability, beading and sheeting are not great for either of these waxes if comparing to the likes of those available in the shops.
However, these two waxes are based on a very basic formula with cheap easily sourced items without any need for specific expertise.

The fact that 6 weeks down the line they are still there and doing their job is impressive in my eyes. Also take into account that the car is used daily, mostly through country lanes and I jsut washed it using Fairy which is good for removing wax.

All in all. not bad and a good base for any homebrewer to start from.

Forgot to add that I still think the Candelilla is outperforming the Carnuaba. Just a little if you look at the uniformity of the beads!!!!

I have also applied the 7 test waxes from Carnuaba to Soya onto my bonnet. Covered almost 300miles today and I will update with some pics when I can but it was getting a little too dark last night.

Thanks

Otto:wave:


----------



## Otto

Just a quick update. Results are not very conclusive at the moment for testing the waxes against each other. I applied them in a hurry and didn't tape up to clearly separate them. 

Machine polish and stay over is needed to be precise. I should be on top of this by Friday and I'll update then. 

Thanks all


----------



## Otto

Guys,
I'm not continuing this thread anymore. 

I will however always help where I can with your homebrewing stuff. 
Find me on facebook and ill help any of you out who ask.


----------



## MDC250

Shame Denis, it's been a very interesting read although I must admit I lost track of the thread for a while.

Thank you for your time and efforts, I'm sure a lot of people will have taken something from your posts


----------



## Goodfella36

Otto keep going bud ill send you one I made :thumb:


----------



## vek

i would also like dennis to continue if possible,i know it is time consuming & probably you dont have much time to keep updating/trialing etc but i have found it very interesting & i would bet many more have also.i want to follow some of the recipes you have provided but ill health at the mo is stopping that,but im still very interested in following what both otto & others are doing & providing there blends for all to trial if they wish is.great work guys :thumb:


----------



## Otto

Its not the time or effort guys. 
Its this forum and its mods. 

I'll keep at it but through Facebook on my account


----------



## vek

then thats where i will keep up mate :thumb:


----------



## MDC250

Gutted not on Faceache and even the lure of this thread can't convince me to join


----------



## camerashy

MDC250 said:


> Gutted not on Faceache and even the lure of this thread can't convince me to join


Me too, sorry Otto


----------



## Spoony

Try finding the right one on Facebook!


----------



## Adot

Otto said:


> Its not the time or effort guys.
> Its this forum and its mods.
> 
> I'll keep at it but through Facebook on my account
> Denis Otto


Been lurking and keeping an eye on this thread. 
Anyone one know what he means by the above???


----------



## cragglemieSTer

sad to hear this is discontinuing on here. was / is a very popular thread which was very informative. Many thanks to you otto for what you contributed to date.


----------



## cipriani

Hopefully the other contributors to this thread can keep it alive.


----------



## Clancy

Got loads of stuff on order to start having a play

Sorry to hear otto, will try and find you on Facebook. Hopefully everyone keeps commenting on here 

Great thread


----------



## Goodfella36

I have 2 types of polymers I could send out if anyone wants to go step further at cost price + postage 50ml or 100ml you dont need to add much at all per 250ml of wax


----------



## cipriani

What you got Goodfella36?


----------



## Goodfella36

cipriani said:


> What you got Goodfella36?


one is a curable polymer and one Non-curable polymer 
They can either be used together or separate curable polymer gives the best durability The non-curable gives better looks and ease of use will even give helping hand on starting points of use for 250 ml of wax also have some different weight silicone oils which you will find in a lot of waxes


----------



## mikeyfraser20

I've just finished reading this thread and it was very useful and helpful. I need to start ordering stuff so can make my own. 

What's best to order for getting a good durability and gloss finish or is it trail and error? 

Any help would be great. Based in fife.


----------



## nickyd

Adot said:


> Been lurking and keeping an eye on this thread.
> Anyone one know what he means by the above???


There are commercial sponsors for most forums and it's reasonable that they can expect not to have their products decried. There are a few 'loose' comments in this thread which may have been the problem, but who knows?

Anyway, the thread hasn't been 'pulled' but there is no Facebook link and I don't expect to see one.
N.


----------



## cipriani

Goodfella36 said:


> I have 2 types of polymers I could send out if anyone wants to go step further at cost price + postage 50ml or 100ml you dont need to add much at all per 250ml of wax


You got anything heavier than PDMS 350?


----------



## Treganin

Shame that the OP has chosen not to continue with the thread - It may well have been the best one I've come across on DW so far.

Anyone want to PM me Otto's facebook link?


----------



## espencert

Very informative thread. Thanks for posting.


----------



## Goodfella36

cipriani said:


> You got anything heavier than PDMS 350?


Yes bud pm me


----------



## nickiejay1991

Is the coconut oil for smell or? Just out of curiousity that's all


----------



## cipriani

nickiejay1991 said:


> Is the coconut oil for smell or? Just out of curiousity that's all


Coconut oil is almost completely odourless. It helps with the spread and oiling up of the wax, only small amounts should be used though


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## nickiejay1991

Okay my bad so everyone used the coconut oil yes, what about the sun flower oil is that the same as the coconut or does it do a different thing


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## nickiejay1991

Should I use both oil coconut and then find a decent oil to go with it


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## cipriani

nickiejay1991 said:


> Okay my bad so everyone used the coconut oil yes, what about the sun flower oil is that the same as the coconut or does it do a different thing


The oils all serve a similar purpose, some you want more off than others. Your best bet is to start with the basic recipe and only then will you be able to see how adding and removing ingredients changes things. There's a lot more than you'd think involved in wax making.


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## nickiejay1991

cipriani said:


> The oils all serve a similar purpose, some you want more off than others. Your best bet is to start with the basic recipe and only then will you be able to see how adding and removing ingredients changes things. There's a lot more than you'd think involved in wax making.


Thanks for the Info, only now Iv started to look for ingredients ect Iv done alot of research atm


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## cipriani

It becomes addictive and expensive!


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## nickiejay1991

cipriani said:


> It becomes addictive and expensive!


Yeah I bet already I want to buy everything and reading into this to much.

Iv currently bought
carnauba wax flakes,
Beeswax wax pellets, 
Coconut oil,
Need to order pure sun flower oil.

What else am I missing? Also when do you start to add colour and scent by adding these does it mess with the ingredients of your wax and have to start over ect or can it be put in at the end.

How do you guys weigh and measure?

Sorry for the questions


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## nickiejay1991

So as I go along I will automatic notice I need to add or remove ingredients. And start buying more ect and different things to add. 

Thanks you I'm just happy that someone is help me out a bit,
I may ask silly questions ect but I'm learning


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## cipriani

We have all been there, you will notice things like the application, removal, beading and longevity are not even close to waxes you can buy initially however with a couple of months work and determination you can turn this around. I would say please invest in a respirator or some sort of breathing apparatus suitable for chemical vapour. When heating solvent you can very quickly feel the effects of inhalation and in some cases they can make you I'll for days, in addition most are carcinogenic 🏻


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## Legacykid

After about a month or so of reading a bunch of threads on here and other forums. Im giving this a shot. Im started with the basic recipe on the first page.

I have made 3 so far.
1) the original recipe.- came out to hard and needs to be worked by hand before it is easy to apply. once applied to a CD it took almost 30 mins and still did not haze. Beading was ok, sheeting was really good.

2) 2g less Carnuba, 2g more beeswax. 
Currently cooling

3) 1g less carnauba,1g less beeswax. And 1g more coconut oil, 1g more sun oil.(from test 2)
Currently cooling

In the US I can only get odorless mineral spirits, the Wax actually smells like it more then I would like. It isnt bad by any means though. Once I lock down a formula I will then try out scented oils. 

Im going for a very simple recipe that is cost effective and beads nicely for a few weeks. This will be more of a novelty then anything else.


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## Legacykid

Once cooled 3 came out ok. Seemed hard but spread well. Did not haze right away, after 30 mins. was still oily. I wiped off anyway to find beading and sheeting to be really good on a CD


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## Legacykid

Very cool to see so many come here and become true wax makers.


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## Legacykid

My 4th an 5th pots are out. they came out much softer then the rest, they have the structural consistency i want but are to oily. and like the rest do not flash. 30 mins later and it seems to be just as oily as first applied. Beading and Sheeting was not as good at #3. But the smell of the white spirits was not as prevalent like in the first 3, even though the solvent was untouched in all tests so far. 

I left these to cool for about 20 hours where as the rest were maybe 15 before removing from class container and they are fine. The first three after removing them from the container in 10-15 hours developed a white edge around it.

I have also tried using a hair dryer on the first few to soften the tops up before applying to CDs. Worked well.

Have to figure out this oily issue first.


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## cipriani

Yeah I use a mixture of natural and mineral oils along with some additives and glycols. Mine cure at 15 mins in any temperature from 0 Celsius to +45 Celsius. Important if your selling the mixed countries. The solvent plays the biggest part with curing. White spirit simply won't do, you need something with a quicker evaporation rate. Use of multiple solvents is common


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## Legacykid

cipriani said:


> Yeah I use a mixture of natural and mineral oils along with some additives and glycols. Mine cure at 15 mins in any temperature from 0 Celsius to +45 Celsius. Important if your selling the mixed countries. The solvent plays the biggest part with curing. White spirit simply won't do, you need something with a quicker evaporation rate. Use of multiple solvents is common


What do you suggest? Honestly I want to find just a simple recipe that cheap and cost effective. I will be using it as a novelty, to hand out to clients. In no way am I trying to get into the wax game.

What I am trying to achieve is

Ease of use
Beads well enough
durability doesnt even matter but atleast 3 weeks


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## -Kev-

this is for homebrewers not for people that make and sell wax. if you do and want to advertise you need to speak to admin about becoming a sponser


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## Legacykid

Just cooked up 6 and 7

wax/sol/oil

6 has a 38/40/22 mix
7 has a 32/34/32 mix

Getting the cooldown to where I like it. nice and slow seems to be working for these mixes. Still trying to get the heating of the solvent, without going to high, to mix perfectly everytime with the wax. Sometimes I notice as soon as I mix chunks appear. Meaning the temp of the wax is to high.

Also Im heating my pan up to about 180F seems to be a great temp with out bowling.


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## Legacykid

So T7 was a dud, way to hard and actually didnt even spread.

T6 on the other hand was very nice. Didnt smell strongly of solvant, spread easily, beading and sheeting wasnt bad either. 

So where i am at now is T3 beading and sheeting, and T6 being user friendly.

So I made T7, T8 being variances half way between the two last night and letting them cool a tad longer before I test them out. Hopefull find something good!


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## -Kev-

my post refers to another user blatantly advertising waxes that they produce and sell - this is NOT what the homebrew section is for, as we have said many times previously. also, if you have any questions about moderation pm one of us as per forum rules please.


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## Baby25

-Kev- said:


> my post refers to another user blatantly advertising waxes that they produce and sell - this is NOT what the homebrew section is for, as we have said many times previously. also, if you have any questions about moderation pm one of us as per forum rules please.


Ah OK, thanks for clarifying. Think the post must have been edited as didn't see that bit.


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## -Kev-

No i deleted them.


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## Baby25

-Kev- said:


> No i deleted them.


Ah, that would be it then. My comments were just based on what I had read so sorry, I didn't realise there was more.


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## ashiohsiao

cipriani said:


> Yeah I use a mixture of natural and mineral oils along with some additives and glycols. Mine cure at 15 mins in any temperature from 0 Celsius to +45 Celsius. Important if your selling the mixed countries. The solvent plays the biggest part with curing. White spirit simply won't do, you need something with a quicker evaporation rate. Use of multiple solvents is common


Hi~ Can you enlighten me with what additives can help enhance wax? Much appreciated!


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