# Best DA microfibre system



## dcampbell42 (May 4, 2011)

Hi guys, I am going to MOP my BMW 3 series (E90) and I have a kestrel das6 pro DA and microfibre compound by Meguairs. I don't have the pads as I burnt them to shreds a few years back polishing a car (using correct speed) and haven't bought any since. Anyway cut to the chase.. I was wondering should I purchase more of them to use in compliance with my megs DA microfiber compound or are there any better microfiber pad combinations made available since I last had an interest in detailing? Don't really want to go down the route of rotary and would preferably like to stay with Meguairs compound as U don't want this basically full bottle going to waste.

I would also like any advice I can get on how to get more use out of the Meguairs cutting pads or are they just poor?

Thanks for any help guys, look forward to hearing replies. 

Dean


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## Coachman (Mar 8, 2015)

Have you Tryed using a less aggressive compound? Start with the less aggressive and work up if it's not working. 

If your only option is a MF pad the chemical guys orange MF pads are good . 2 weeks ago I was working on a BMW mini JCW coupe and the paint was rock solid apart from the hood which had recently been repainter, so on the car I used the d300 system and on the hood I used chemical guys cutting polish on a white chemical guys pad and it worked a great.


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## dcampbell42 (May 4, 2011)

Do I need a different backing plate instead of the standard kestrel da one?


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## Coachman (Mar 8, 2015)

With the chemical guys pads I use the standard backing plate that came with my g220. 

I was thinking about getting a different backing plate...I'm sure someone will be along here to advice you on this soon mate.


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## dcampbell42 (May 4, 2011)

Ljh1991 said:


> With the chemical guys pads I use the standard backing plate that came with my g220.
> 
> I was thinking about getting a different backing plate...I'm sure someone will be along here to advice you on this soon mate.


Apparently the standard plate with the das6 pro generates a lot of heat. Not sure if it's the same as the Meguairs standard plate.

Been on eBay there, there's a lot of microfibre cutting discs but it's knowing which one to go for I want some advice on.


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## Coachman (Mar 8, 2015)

dcampbell42 said:


> Apparently the standard plate with the das6 pro generates a lot of heat. Not sure if it's the same as the Meguairs standard plate.
> 
> Been on eBay there, there's a lot of microfibre cutting discs but it's knowing which one to go for I want some advice on.


My megs ones seem to be good . No real heat generation


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## dcampbell42 (May 4, 2011)

Ljh1991 said:


> My megs ones seem to be good . No real heat generation


Do you know the part number and do you know if it's the same backing plate as the kestrel mate?


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

Worked through a few microfiber pads and be prepared as they won't last as long as foam, however with bmw paint I'd highly recommend the autorae microfiber cutting pad, they give excellent cut and last longer than flexipad and meguiars. For a finishing chemical guys finishing microfiber.
Over the last year I've not used a foam pad for any correcting with the v range polishs, wolf's,3m or rupes.


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## dcampbell42 (May 4, 2011)

k9vnd said:


> Worked through a few microfiber pads and be prepared as they won't last as long as foam, however with bmw paint I'd highly recommend the autorae microfiber cutting pad, they give excellent cut and last longer than flexipad and meguiars. For a finishing chemical guys finishing microfiber.
> Over the last year I've not used a foam pad for any correcting with the v range polishs, wolf's,3m or rupes.


Do I need to refine after this as I was just after a 1stage correction?


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

You will need to refine after using a microfiber pad as they leave micro marring on most paints. http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=273782&highlight=meguiars

The newer megs pads have a better glue used on them so they do last longer but for durability I do like the Rupes ones as these are made as 1 bit so cant delaminate like the meguiars.


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## Dougnorwich (Jun 27, 2014)

I've not had a problem with the megs mf pads or the backing plate that came with my das6 pro it looks the same as yours in pictures on Google 

True the mf pads don't last as long, but wow how much heat are you generating to shred them ? Ease up on the pressure a bit I thinks 

Yet to try any other ones I've not had a megs fail yet, but when I do I'll try the flexipads ones next


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## Jantsu1 (May 14, 2008)

Check the Meguiars video from 8.00 min forward, there they explain the reason why microfiber pads shred.





Do you guys agree that? Can backplate be the reason?
Same problem with other brands?


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## stangalang (Nov 27, 2009)

Although I'm sure it may play a part, it isn't the due a lot of the time. People have had them fall to pieces on that backing plate, in the washing machine, in the bath soaking (this happened to me) and a bunch of other ways. The original pads were substandard, period. But they are effective and i do believe that they have changed the glue between the foam and the inner surface, this is from the source on here.


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

Most of the microfibre pads ive used have eventually failed, but in all fairness ive been getting about 4-6 full correction uses from each pad, taking in washing times as stated there never going to be indestructable especially if getting put to soak clean or in the machine.

With most polishing once cut you generally have to follow to refine, unless your looking at an aio.


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## dcampbell42 (May 4, 2011)

Thanks guys. As I don't have a rotary I was after a one step correction but it doesn't seem that the Megs DA MF system is capable of that


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## Coachman (Mar 8, 2015)

dcampbell42 said:


> Thanks guys. As I don't have a rotary I was after a one step correction but it doesn't seem that the Megs DA MF system is capable of that


There is a video on YouTube if a detailer in the usa using the d300 mega mg system saying it can be used as a 1 step.


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## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

I did my BMW with the Megs MF system. The paint was shiny but it looked odd. I did the roof and bonnet with foam pad and menzerna polish and the clarity came back.

In conclusion I would agree with others that the finish needs to be refined after using MF pads.


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## Coachman (Mar 8, 2015)

Andy from Sandy said:


> I did my BMW with the Megs MF system. The paint was shiny but it looked odd. I did the roof and bonnet with foam pad and menzerna polish and the clarity came back.
> 
> In conclusion I would agree with others that the finish needs to be refined after using MF pads.


Fair point.

When I used it the other week, I finished with chemical guys cutting Polish, then cv polish both on foam.


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

dcampbell42 said:


> Thanks guys. As I don't have a rotary I was after a one step correction but it doesn't seem that the Megs DA MF system is capable of that


Nothing stopping you using an aio with a microfibre cutting pad, zanio pc fuzion works extreamly well as does dodo juice lime prime plus:thumb:


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## Dougnorwich (Jun 27, 2014)

dcampbell42 said:


> Thanks guys. As I don't have a rotary I was after a one step correction but it doesn't seem that the Megs DA MF system is capable of that


Course it is

I've seen mf pads finish down very very well

mf finishing pad with m205, when the swirls have gone do a couple of passes with virtually no pressure just the weight of the machine and you'll notice the difference I bet


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## Bod42 (Jun 4, 2009)

Ya but why use a microfibre pad that has the possibility to leave marring with a finishing polish when you can use something like the Hydro Orange with M205 and use the SMAT to its full ability using quite hard pressure to start with and then finishing with hardly any pressure. Every car is different but I bet you would get a better finish with this combo than microfibre


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## dcampbell42 (May 4, 2011)

Bod42 said:


> Ya but why use a microfibre pad that has the possibility to leave marring with a finishing polish when you can use something like the Hydro Orange with M205 and use the SMAT to its full ability using quite hard pressure to start with and then finishing with hardly any pressure. Every car is different but I bet you would get a better finish with this combo than microfibre


So it's best to refine? What would be the best polish/pad combination for a DA to refine after correcting with the megs d300


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## szladob (Jun 5, 2013)

I had very nice results with the MF cutting disc both on Audi (presumed hard) and Toyota (presumed soft) paint, with doing a few very light passes always at the end of each section, and there was no noticeable difference to using a finishing product. 

But on softer paint/or if marring happens, you can either use the Meg's system with the finishing MF disc and D301 which finishes and waxes all in one, or switch to a black foam pad/disc with M205 or ultimate polish for an even better result; then seal/wax in a separate step.. Depends how much time you have


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

dcampbell42 said:


> So it's best to refine? What would be the best polish/pad combination for a DA to refine after correcting with the megs d300


What DA is it?... if it's the lower voltage model ie not 900watt then the best pad's i felt with the first DA i got were lake county constant pressure pads.
With the spin doctor and my new orbital ive always used microfibre pad's and never encountered an issue yet.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

dcampbell42 said:


> So it's best to refine? What would be the best polish/pad combination for a DA to refine after correcting with the megs d300


I go for M205 on a soft black glazing pad to really amp up the gloss. :thumb:

If your paint is really hard, then maybe use a white polishing pad instead of the black glazing pad.


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## dcampbell42 (May 4, 2011)

The car in question is a black BMW 3 series (E90) 2006


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

dcampbell42 said:


> The car in question is a black BMW 3 series (E90) 2006


Black Sapphire? Jet Black?

Generally the black sapphire is hard paint and jet black is soft paint.


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## dcampbell42 (May 4, 2011)

-Raven- said:


> Black Sapphire? Jet Black?
> 
> Generally the black sapphire is hard paint and jet black is soft paint.


Ain't sure buddy, all I know is it's metallic.

So do you guys think I should go for the Meguairs Microfibre cutting discs and the recommended megs backing plate or are there any better MF pads out there worth a try that are better than Meguairs?


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

Wow what the heck are you guys doing to only get so few uses out of a microfibre pad
I get 40 to 100 cars out of mine from germany and 98% of the time the pads do not leave marring behind. it could be your technique, not keeping the pads clean or the compound your using 
I use a finishing polish or medium cutting polish with mine, not a compound as it's not needed

you guys are using it with those machines and I'm using mine on the industry's most powerful machine that has both forced and random with the largest orbit throw with the biggest wattage motor of any machine so something must be wrong. I know the megs ones arent the best but geez 

if the edges of the pad come unglued, just get the next size down backing plate and put the pad on it and cut the pad down to that size with scissors or something better but give a 1-2mm clearance so it fits safely or make the pad into a perfect fit kevin brown style pad

now it's like new only smaller 
MF is my default pad for a 1 step and it works great on all bar some japanese cars


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## Steampunk (Aug 11, 2011)

Here is my view in regards to the short lifespan, and finishing problems with microfiber pads mentioned in this thread...

I first began using microfiber pads very shortly after their release to the market, when literally every manufacturer making them was experiencing problems finding an adhesive to hold up to both the heat and chemical exposure of paintwork correction. The new pads are nowhere near as delicate as the early ones, but the pad care techniques I learned early on as a result have helped my MF pad collection to last longer than many here are reporting. Here are some tricks I have learned after several premature pad failures:

(1) - Heat is the number one enemy of MF pads, so even if the new pads can handle being buzzed up to speeds 5-6 better than the old ones (Which tended to delaminate very quickly in such usage.), keeping down to speeds 3-4 and using pressure rather than speed will help to prolong the life of your pads tremendously. MF pads do not really need high-speeds to obtain good rates of correction, and in practice I have found high speed operation to actually reduce their cutting efficiency in some cases.

(2) - The number two enemy of microfiber pads are chemicals; specifically those used for cleaning them out after the fact. Even though you can put them through a washing machine, I would avoid it, as it significantly shortens the life of the pad. I wash mine by hand, as I would carpet, spraying them with just enough APC diluted to textile-cleaner levels to saturate the pile, working it in with a brush or nitrile-gloved hand until the polish residue has been loosened, then rinsing it out under cold water, and squeezing it out under the running tap until all the cleaner is gone. Afterwards, I wring them out, and leave them to air dry for several days before storage or re-use. This, along with the use of mild APC's, helps to prevent the glue from breaking down.

(3) - The third trick I learned, was the effect pad priming had on the textile used in MF pads. Ideally, the fibers should be over-saturated with product during the initial priming, and the excess removed with a brush or - preferably - a quick blast of air. This at first seems a little wasteful, but ensures that ever square inch of material is coated in just the right amount of polish... The polish doesn't just coat the fibers with abrasives, but lubricants, as well. Microfiber material is a polyester/polymide blend, and anyone who has laundered polyester knows that it is very sensitive to heat and abrasion. By lubricating the fibers properly, you reduce the friction on them, minimizing the heat and wear of the correction process. The times that I have lost fibers from my pads, or noticed that the material was losing its properties (Becoming stiff, and losing its density from the tiny threads in the textile that were beginning to melt.), have been when my pads were running slightly dry. As such, I am now always very careful to ensure my pads always have enough lubrication, and favor non-diminishing abrasive polishes for this purpose, as they tolerate and thrive on this priming technique better than the diminishing abrasive polishes I have tested.

After I discovered these observations on microfiber pad care through trial and error, I have found my MF pads (Even some of my remaining early pads) to be some of the longest lasting pads in my collection, and they have held up fine for the past years....

In regards to MF pads not finishing out well, I will say that they can actually finish very well, but are a little more sensitive to product selection and cleaning/priming than foam. There are still some paints that microfiber will never finish down perfectly on, but for me, these are actually in a minority.

For me, the best-finishing MF pad/polish combo I have used has been with microfiber discs featuring an 8mm pile depth, and Optimum Polish II. It's actually one of my go-to 1-step combos when working in my garage... OP-II's lubrication, combined with the longer pile length, helps to isolate the paint swarf and cut down significantly on the textile pigtails and hazing one can often see with MF pads. On my MGB's crazy-soft original enamel, I was able to finish out with only a barely detectible haze after removing P2000-3000 grit sanding scratches:

IMGP5736 by Mole Hill Motors, on Flickr

I have more info on my technique with this combo in my original wetsanding thread: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=285957.

On even soft, modern Honda paint, the finish was perfectly mar-free from this combo, and following with OFP-II on a soft foam pad did not result in a significant gain in gloss. On harder paints, the same trick can often be repeated with shorter pile microfiber pads, and or some of the Meguiar's compounds like D300 and Ultimate Compound. Even M205 makes for an interesting, and very effective combo with MF discs...

That said, without an air-line to to keep the pads clean, or a large stack of fresh discs to change out frequently, this finishing process is not repeatable for more than a few square feet of paintwork. As the pads clog with paint swarf, the finish level degrades, and you will experience more marring. Brushes only partly clear this swarf; you really need an air-line to do it properly. On very hard paints, this is less of an issue, but on soft paints pad cleanliness is a much bigger problem. Foam cutting pads are easier to keep clean with normal brushes, and even old terry cloth or microfiber towels, so for me are a more reliable pad type for those doing correction without the benefit of a well-equipped garage. However, if you do have the facilities to get the best from them, or are working on a very hard paint which is less sensitive to the loading, they do offer some benefits in terms of leveling and low operating temperature which even the very best foam pads cannot match.

Hopefully this helps... If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. :buffer:

- Steampunk


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## Dougnorwich (Jun 27, 2014)

Very good useful post Mr punk

Every time I talk about Mf pads I mention them being very needy thus is exactly what I mean


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

Dream Machines said:


> Wow what the heck are you guys doing to only get so few uses out of a microfibre pad
> I get 40 to 100 cars out of mine from germany and 98% of the time the pads do not leave marring behind. it could be your technique, not keeping the pads clean or the compound your using
> I use a finishing polish or medium cutting polish with mine, not a compound as it's not needed
> 
> ...


Biggest problem for mine is finishing pad's, basically stuck in the washing machine and lay to dry, with the autorae pads and flexi pads the finishing backings to the pad's is ultra thin, mine's arent ruined but fairly flexable. For the price and job dependant i only like to use the finishing pads 3-4 times and rest of time these will be reused for applying simple polish or glaze.


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

that was a fantastic post Steampunk. good stuff indeed, your a great asset to this place with posts of that caliber. 

I totally agree about the lubrication on the pads. I use purified parrafin oil (a tiny drop now and then) on each pad when I prime it to do a whole panel 

Only have ten 150mm pads and they got me through 100 cars no problem
I'm using the liquid elements microfibres with german orange foam as an interface to reduce heat buildup, they are really tough. flexipads finishing microfibre discs are excellent too

only part I have to fix is the velcro being destroyed on the flexipads ones due to the lack of deep enough velcro layer 

fibre based pads need a little extra lube so a hint of parrafin works well 
it helps to use a very runny polish with these pads too

I blow my pads out with compressed air during and after doing each panel when doing a whole panel in one go or each section if doing multiple sections

mine get cleaned with a little general cleanser from my chem company's line and a pressure washer. four seconds and their done and I sit them upside down to dry.
bit of vinegar too if I want to soften them back like new

if I work on single stage paint I will clean them gently by hand with parts cleaner solvent, far better job at removing that coloured residue and wont make the microfibre go hard like alkaline cleaners will. 

also Ive found it important to not hit the very edge of the face of the pad with the compressed air during drying or cleaning on the fly. that will help the pad edge lift off if you sit there for too long

polish moist not wet or dry and you are on your way to a great result


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## NornIron (May 12, 2007)

Dream Machines said:


> I'm using the liquid elements microfibres with german orange foam as an interface to reduce heat buildup, they are really tough.


Another great insight into MF pads... I've looked at the Liquid Elements MF pads, but couldn't ascertain whether they were a cutting or polishing pad? I'm presuming from your comments, you treat them as a cutting pad?


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## k9vnd (Apr 11, 2011)

"only part I have to fix is the velcro being destroyed on the flexipads ones due to the lack of deep enough velcro layer"


:thumb:That's the problem with mine.


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

yes I've spoken to michael at flexipads for many years, I buy direct from them in bulk
I need to email him about this problem,


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