# starting new waterless car wash business



## gardenerbmw

Hi all,read recent post about starting own waterless wash business.This is something i am looking at doing.Has anyone started one and can give me advice on products(will need to be best value),best way to get business(how do i get in carparks for example),should i be totally mobile or target business premises.One big worry is if i go totally waterless how do i clean a totally minging car inc wheels and arches.Been to local sainsburys and watched Hands On in action 16 men washing cars in one carpark woo £££££££.
thanks in advance for all advice given.cheers paul


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## Concho

I have tried a lot of waterless products and the one I settled on is Spray'n'Shine. I'll pm you details so it's not bogged down here. I can't say I've tried them all but that is certainly a good one. BUT regardless of which one you use practice your technique and then practice a bit more. It's so tempting to spray it on the rub or buff but that's when you'll get scratches. Simply spray wait 30 seconds, wipe in straight lines (turning cloth frequently) then buff with another. 

ONR is good too, I tried it for the first time on Sunday and was really impressed with the finish, and went to Manchester Airport & back this morning and it still looks good. I dluted that with 2 cap fulls into 1 litre spray bottle and then used it as a waterless wash.

One thing to note - get loads of microfibre cloths, you'll need them.

I use different products for interior shampoo (bought from ebay), I use Autoglym Super Interior Cleaner on plastics & leather etc, I use Wonder Wheels on the alloys but I've read bad things about that lately so will look for something else once I've used it. I use Autoglym Tyre Shine for tyres, and Odour Fresh spray air freshener. All can be used from spray bottles.

I did buy a generator from Amazon for the hoover too. 

For a completely dirty car, waterless is not ideal but I have done it with success. Just go slow and prepare to go through tons of cloths and be very careful with technique and it can be done. Will take more time though. A lot of people on here will say they've never tried that but I did and got away with it. 

I'm still starting up and every job I've had I have had rave reviews, but no work from word of mouth yet. I'm starting to target local business but it's hard to speak to the right guy. I'm now resorting to letters and leaflets.

I tried hitting taxi drivers but they all seem to want a £4 wash from the Turks or Poles so they are hard to crack, and one of my good mates owns a taxi firm and he couldn't get me business because of that!

It's hard mate but I wish you the very best of luck, if you get any successes, please share, but my only advice is practice that technique so much that when you do get the jobs rolling in you have developed exactly what you wand to do.


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## pete5570

The europeans seem to have these jobs sewn up,you can't match them on price, even though the quality is really poor. Hands on are at my local Tescos, it's one of the iggest in the country and they are on the go all day, the cars look clean, but there are streaks and water mark all over them. You would think that people would learn, but it cost a fiver so they don't give a damn. That's what you are up against, and whatever you do, don't try to step on their toes.


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## RCZ

pete5570 said:


> That's what you are up against, and whatever you do, don't try to step on their toes.


That sounds sinister :doublesho

Thing is, I bet they're all breaking the law. How many of them are capturing the effluent? I can't understand why the relevant body hasn't come down on them.


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## gkerr4

RCZ said:


> That sounds sinister :doublesho
> 
> Thing is, I bet they're all breaking the law. How many of them are capturing the effluent? I can't understand why the relevant body hasn't come down on them.


that relevant body would be the environment agency...

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/contactus/default.aspx


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## toomanycitroens

RCZ said:


> That sounds sinister :doublesho
> 
> Thing is, I bet they're all breaking the law. How many of them are capturing the effluent? I can't understand why the relevant body hasn't come down on them.


Look at the conflict between Ice Cream rounds and Hot Dog vendors-Scary!
:devil: :lol::lol:


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## MirfieldMat

i too have recently started a waterless valet business. the main problem i find is pulling people away from hand car washes. they are so cheap! 
people i speak to always say the same things to me, 'why would i pay that much when i can go down the road and pay this much?' and 'waterless, wont it scratch?' 
my prices are painfully cheap to try and get the hand car wash customers, i make about a quid washing the exterior of a corsa so i always try to push for the wash and vac at least.
regarding the scratching, it is perfectly possible to clean waterlessly without scratching, i often do demos to potential customers. as concho says, be careful and take your time. when a customer questions the method i tend to say you are more likely to damage paintwork at hand car washes by over enthusiastic PW usage and sponges collecting grit.
be aware that it does take longer to clean waterlessly. i know a guy who has been set up a while outside a farm shop at weekends and business parks through the week and he and his PW can wash 4-5 cars an hour. waterlessly takes 30 minutes a car and if its filthy can take 45-50 minutes. 
as concho says, buy lots and lots of MF cloths. they say you only need 2, i use 3 at least. dirtier it is more cloths needed. 
cleaning arches - i brush as much away as poss with a small brush then use a used mf cloth soaked in waterless spray to wipe away dirt . usually i dont even bother at all, just explain to customer that it is an extra and will cost you £x on top.
product - i use go waterless purely because it was cheap. they have a few kinds so i bought a 500ml squirter of the cheaper to test it then bought 5 litres of the more expensive. dont be fooled by the amount of cars it says you can wash from one tub. i say about half to two 3rds of the stated amount is right. if it says 50 then expect 35 etc. i have also tested other products for free. google waterless car wash then email all the different companies and state who you are and you want some testers for comparison for VFM and ease of use etc. so far i have recieved 3 free and a couple more to come. 

its a hard slog to get business, constant knock backs, and people who are interested talk to others who know someone that had there car massacred by waterless wash because it scratches and destroys everything blah blah. once you get past the stigma of scratching it is easier.


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## martyp

I worked as a self-employed valeter for about 6 months, joined a franchise.

Biggest problem for me was the fact that there were several franchisees (and the owner to be honest) that just didn't give a toss and where just in it for the cash so the company had a terrible rep by everyone who used them.

On top of that it was the fact the company was called 'waterless' and the sad fact was just about every car on the road needed to be properly washed with the regular method to prevent severe swirl damage. So when the people saw you working or the car afterwards and the puddle of water around it you get the 'so why do you use water then?' statement.

I used dri-wash-n-guard, google it. Product wasn't bad, would use it as a HD QD on my own car but no way would I was anything other than a lightly dirty car with it.

But if I can offer one piece of advice, don't join a franchise, or if you do research it well. If I started up on my own, with £10k I would probably still be doing it having a strong customer base and getting into paintwork correction etc too as I came across several weathly clients...

I'd probably steer clear of the waterless system too, it's just a bag of hurt when you market it and _need_ to use water to safely clean their car. Passers by see it and slag you off and no doubt pass that on too, even if you are doing what is best for the paintwork...


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## gardenerbmw

*going to now try steam instead*

thankyou all for your comments ,learnt alot.i have tried several waterless products my self since posting this thread and relised that unless the car is already relatively clean,it would take me an age to make a sucessful business.i have therefore decided to look at using steam machine.
so now has anyone set up a simliar business,used or had car valeted with one or any comments would be helpful.i have already started marketing and have had quite alot of interest,but looking at companies already doing this they seem to be charging very high prices eg £12 to £15 :for wash.i know i need to compete so will need to charge £6 for small car,obviously ther will have to be a minimum of mini valet for me to travel.as i say any help would be very grateful.would i need to spray tardis and wheel cleaner as the poles do when you pay £5,cheers in advance paul.:thumb:


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## rachael2011

Is waterless car washing "good" for your car. i always thought it would just scratch the paintwork. It just doesn't sound right to me washing the car with no water! :S


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## dcj

rachael2011 said:


> Is waterless car washing "good" for your car. i always thought it would just scratch the paintwork. It just doesn't sound right to me washing the car with no water! :S


Ok for cars with a light dusting on them imo but not for heavy dirt jobs.


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## Mouseless

*?*

how many microfibre cloths do you use per car ? and do you throw them ? (waterless) or wash them ? (not waterless) 
i live in a rural area so you can imagine how dirty cars get, but in towns/city's may be steam or w'less ??.
nearly everytime i foam a car it generates some interest because its different. 
at the end of the day most just want a clean car as cheep as possible.


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## Teejay

I can't see how you're gonna make a business from charging £6 for a mobile wash.
If you include travel time, fuel, products, insurance, startup costs (vehicle, tools etc), at £6 a wash are you actually making any money?


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## dcj

Teejay said:


> I can't see how you're gonna make a business from charging £6 for a mobile wash.
> If you include travel time, fuel, products, insurance, startup costs (vehicle, tools etc), at £6 a wash are you actually making any money?


Agree with you mate, I did use a waterless "wash" once on a Porsche and to do it proper;y it took me over a hour. It was an experiment on a good customers car and she was over the moon with the finish but i had to charge £20 for it in the end.


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## Concho

I am starting out and I must admit it's difficult to 'sell' it but when the job is done people love it.

I have done very dirty cars waterless also, and results have been great and no scratching at all, however it did take a fair bit of time and went through a mountain of microfibres.

The cheapest I've done a wash and hoover for is £30, because nobody has asked me for any less (my price for exterior wash is £10), and the more I do it the quicker I get. I also have used a few different waterless washes and the finish does vary quite a lot. I'm sticking to two at the moment, Spray'n'Shine and ONR and just using the others up on the van. Always willing to try new stuff though.

My advice if it is something you pursue, practive loads, and technique is crucial. Also time yourself on every job and try to knock time off everywhere. I can do a whole car (exterior) to a good standard in 15 mins now, except the wheels which slow me down the most if they are well soiled.


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## Mirror Finish Details

I honestly think you will go bust at £6 or £10 a wash.

The local hand car wash near me does 20-25 cars an hour at £5 a pop, that is £125 an hour, less £30 for the five guys at minimum wage for the hour and he is static so people come to him, open 10 hours a day he is making £950 a day before his chemical costs and premised. I think I should look for a old petrol station to open up in.

He can dump down the drain as he only used PH neutral stuff.


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## MirfieldMat

It is a time consuming washing method unfortunately, but if you can find people who are wiling to look at the environmental benefits then they are more than willing to pay a little extra, and once they see the finish they are well pleased and normaly will book again. 

Concho - have you ried the One Dry Wash? i had a meeting the other day with the sales manager and i think it is prety good stuff.


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## Concho

Mat, it's not one I have tried. Would you recommend it? Have you tried Spray'n'Shine or ONR (used same as waterless methods)? They are by far the best 2 I have found (especially S'n'S), how does it compare to those?

If you haven't tried Spray'n'Shine, I could send you a sample to see what you think, I'd like other people's opinions too.


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## gardenerbmw

The £6 wash is if i can get a permanent site,this is however causing problems because people seem to think that they need a waste licence.I have explained that this is not the case as there is no run off or chemicals.Going back to money as you correctly said Mirror Finish i wont be able to make a business at such low prices,but when you look at companies who are already sucessfully running steam valeting they charge much higher prices eg £14 for small car wash (i wouldnt pay that so i cant see how anyone else will).
This business i feel will be the future of car wash due to waste and licenses.I have spoke to other companies who say that they are doing well but i suppose they would say that .Had lots of interest from local companies and been told i can set up in hotel carpark and ask its customers as they drive in.I just need to get my pricing right,not too expensive so as to scare people off,but cheap enough to want it done.


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## dcj

gardenerbmw said:


> Had lots of interest from local companies and been told i can set up in hotel carpark and ask its customers as they drive in.QUOTE]
> 
> The trouble with this is that you could be in one place all day and not make a penny. Plus in a Hotel car park customers arent going to be local so you are unlikely get repeat business from them. You need to get about to get noticed.
> I had a chap come up to me the other week on a business park and ask if I would come to his site every friday and put out a tannoy message asking if anyone wanted their car cleaning. My answer was why would I want to waste a journey on a maybe when I have plenty of definite bookings to go to.


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## MirfieldMat

Concho - I have tried spray n shine, and i thought it was good (although it was only a 100ml tester pot). I was a little confused when i recieved it as i thought they were pink or blue, they sent me one of the new greeny coloured ones with all new packaging. I loved the bubblegum smell, made me want to use it more. 
I didnt really rate it any higher than others I have used. i 50/50 on the bonet and roof etc and the ones i had were all good finishes, not much if anything between them.

I havent tried ONR however i would like to as i have heard a lot of good things about it.

I think am going to start using One Dry Wash because it is reasonably priced (bout £6 a litre) plus they give you a certificate (not worth anything, but customers like that sort of thing) to say you are an approved user and have been trained etc, and they let you use there branding and also you can use the autowindscreen logo as they are linked with them (every little helps).


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## zetec_paul

MirfieldMat said:


> It is a time consuming washing method unfortunately, but if you can find people who are wiling to look at the environmental benefits then they are more than willing to pay a little extra, and once they see the finish they are well pleased and normaly will book again.


Quick question what exactly are the enviromental benefits?


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## andytvcams

> they give you a certificate (not worth anything, but customers like that sort of thing) to say you are an approved user and have been trained etc,


What sort of training do you get from them.


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## MirfieldMat

Zetec Paul - environmental benefits are using no water. that means basically that the water treatment plants dont have to work as hard, the sewage board dont have to work as hard etc meaning less energy (coal, electric whatever) used. carbon footprint reduced and all that. if you think that a normal dont give a **** bout me car person will wash with one bucket of water then rinse with another or a hose pipe using an average of 25 litres of water. reading other threads, guys on here use 80 litres of water to clean a car. local hand car washes use alot more. if i clean one car i use no water saving an average of 52 litres of water for every car washed. thats basically what i tell the customer. 

Andytvcams - i dont know for sure mate i havent done it, but from what the guy told me they basically show you how to use the product properly. its like teaching your grandma to suck eggs really but that piece of paper saying certificate of accomplishment or whatever can impresses people and potentially be a deal sealer.


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## gardenerbmw

dcj said:


> gardenerbmw said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had lots of interest from local companies and been told i can set up in hotel carpark and ask its customers as they drive in.QUOTE]
> 
> The trouble with this is that you could be in one place all day and not make a penny. Plus in a Hotel car park customers arent going to be local so you are unlikely get repeat business from them. You need to get about to get noticed.
> I had a chap come up to me the other week on a business park and ask if I would come to his site every friday and put out a tannoy message asking if anyone wanted their car cleaning. My answer was why would I want to waste a journey on a maybe when I have plenty of definite bookings to go to.
> 
> 
> 
> I gather that you do this for a living,Do you think that i am possibly taking the wrong route by purchasing this steam cleaner(not cheap to buy),Which method do you use,and how have you managed to build your customer base.How many customers do you have,what are your prices and finally does it earn you a good living.Sorry about all these questions,if you feel too personal and dont want to answer then no probs.As you can see i am needing advice as i am supposed to be going to buy on saturday.
> My reason for starting valeting is that i already own a successful gardening firm with hundreds of customers,i simply need something for the lads to do in the winter months so i dont have to lay them off.
Click to expand...


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## Teejay

Valeting is also a seasonal job- it's at it's busiest in the summer.

If you want to know how much it costs in your area, find a few valeters in Google or the like and phone em, posing as a potential customer and ask what they do, what it costs and what the benefits of the 'better' (aka more expensive) options are.

The reason I say this (rather than answering the question directly) is that prices and services vary considerably across a small area, let alone across the country.


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## Teejay

gardenerbmw said:


> ...i can set up in hotel carpark and ask its customers as they drive in...


Please don't take this as being negative, but hotels are a waste of time. (been there done that).

The cheaper hotels (Travelodge, Travel inn et al) are full of people who are paying the bare bones for a bed for the night, so are unlikely to pay to get their car cleaned when they're away from home. Plus they will arrive late and leave early - do your guys wanna work at night?

The more expensive hotels (De Vere, Hilton and independents) have a more affluent range of customers and are potentially staying for longer, but are either too busy, or just not fussed while they're away from home, or don't trust someone who's approached them rather than the other way round.

The exclusive hotels (mostly independent) have nice wealthy customers who will think nothing of spending £50-300 on getting their Jag, Aston, Ferrari detailed properly; and again won't want to be accosted as they arrive at a hotel.

Getting to know office managers, facilities managers and business park managers is the key... potentially hundreds and hundreds of customers and if you offer to do their car cheap/free they will let you have car park space and you have access to all those cars that are going nowhere during business hours!


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## gardenerbmw

Thans tee Jay some very interesting experiences from you, I am now really starting to doubt this new business idea. Thought that I was set up as offered three carparks for one of the budget hotels mentioned. Never looked at it like you said though. 
The major problem that I am having is working out profitability of such a business . I guess from my experience that a mini valet takes approx 1 hr say at £25/£30. Travel time between jobs then max 6 mini Valets/ day (£150/£180)
If I concentrate on business parks or large carparks offering simple wash taking approx 15 mins a £6 ( immigrants only charging £5),so would need to stay reasonably competitive. Then max 4/5 washes per hour £25/£30 
After wages , petrol, tax, insurance, materials , steamer, van . Etc . I am struggling to see the profitability.
Having said all this I know that alot of you are happily making a success of it so what am I missing????????


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## gardenerbmw

well i've done it.gone and purchased my steam cleaner.fabulous piece of kit exterior clean with amazing polish in fraction of a time.tested it on two cars and my van which i left extremely dirty on purpose.
now all i need is customers :thumb:
marketing as eco friendly,as uses hardly any water,Do you think that i need to only use eco friendly finishing products aswell?


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## jedi-knight83

Teejay said:


> Getting to know office managers, facilities managers and business park managers is the key... potentially hundreds and hundreds of customers and if you offer to do their car cheap/free they will let you have car park space and you have access to all those cars that are going nowhere during business hours!


Thats how I started... just before the big petrol station cleaning thing hit though and I was doing proper washes with actual water.

Did the site managers car and was nice and friendly with her (helped she was HOT  ) and she then sent a mass 'facilities manager' email to all 9000 people on site saying I was on site in X location or to ring me. Was lucky enough to set this up on a handful of business parks around cambs and moved from there into proper detailing.

At the time there seemed to be a good market for a £20-£30 valet that was better than the few petrol station places available at the time...

.. to be honest now though some of the drive through places for £5-£7 aren't half bad. My dad uses them sometimes for his work car and its far from the worse job I've ever seen. Hard to compete against now I think.


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## Teejay

Gardener, I'm probably about 2-3 months ahead of you in the same line, hence my experiences being fresh 

There is money to be had and profit to be made, but it's from doing the 'extra services' and more detailed valets; and then proper detailing. A few quick wash/vacuums will fill the time between proper jobs, but I doubt it'll pay the bills unless you can get em done in super quick time.


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## Car Air Freshener Shop

Hi guys,

I see quite a lot of you are either thinking of or currently own your own car washing franchise or business. *A long post, but bare with me. This could be of help!
*
I came to this post through Google as own my own marketing biz, Mint Marketing I'm currently working with a biz that wants me to promote their new waterless car washing product...

*Anyway, I see a lot of you are worried about providing the best prices for washing or detailing a car.* Forget about it. Yes there's people out there who just want a cheap wash, and they'll pay the lowest price be it £4 or £6 or whatever.

They aren't your ideal customer and it's best to stay away regardless of how tempting it may be, because you don't or barely make a profit, but more so because they don't care about their cars. In other words, you're highly unlikely to get word of mouth referrals and they are highly unlikely to be loyal. They want a cheap wash and that's the end of it. These are the sort of people who would put Tesco fuel in to a Auti TT 3.2 quattro when it really should be on Shell VPower.

You're not going to find a Scooby enthusiast with his WRX getting his car washed for a fiver!? Why,, because they understand the value of a premium wash.

You want the people that DO care about the welfare of their cars, because these are they guys that are going to talk and encourage word of mouth, they're going to appreciate your work, and as a result, they're going to be loyal and come back time again if you've done a good job.

I've worked with valeters that now charge £20 for a basic wash, and I know people that would pay that. Why? Because the valeters i've worked with are now targeting the right people in fact, £20 is nothing once you explain why its such a HUGE difference to a rubbish £5 'steel wool' wash.

Think of it like this...

There's plenty of new 11 and 60 plate BMW 3 Series on the roads right now. Why didn't all those people just save their money and go for a used Vauxhall Insignia or something cheaper?

Simple, because BMW explained exactly why spending the extra £10K makes sense in the long run. Yes it's more money now BUT:

- 3 years free servicing saving you £1800 in 3 years (£500 a service, 2 a year) main dealer prices!)

- 10 MPG better than the Vauxhall saving you £4000 over 3 years in fuel

- 3 year warranty saving you huge repair bills

- When you come to sell the car the BMW will be worth £15K whilst the Vauxhall just £9
- Plus it's a more premium car so more gadgets, a better ride quality bla bla...

Now BMW has justified the £10K hike in price, it actually makes a lot more sense to choose the BMW in the first place. The exact same logic can be applied to washing and detailing cars. It just had to be done in the right way.

*Anyway, that's my 2p. Hope it helps!

Luke*


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## Teejay

Great post- all perfect apart from the VPower vs Tesco fuel.

The one exception to this is Tesco 99 RON unleaded, which isn't available at all filling stations, but is endorsed by a number of UK engine tuners and was proven in an EVO magazine test to produce better power/torque/economy than all but the hyper expensive BP 102 RON (race car fuel).

I'd run any petrol car I have on Tesco 99 - I think it's now called 'momentum' or something like that. The other reason for this is that the octane/cetane rating of fuel reduces when it is sat in a tank (collecting condensation). Tesco have a higher throughput of fuel than Shell (because it's usually cheaper) and so is more likely to have a better quality fuel.

I 100% agree on the pricing though. If people ask me for a wash/hoover, depending on car size it's £20-30 and I have plenty of repeat customers already (after only 3 months doing this).

The eastern europeans have the cheap/crap washes tied up, so you need to target better cars/customers.


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## HebdenDave

rydale13 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I see quite a lot of you are either thinking of or currently own your own car washing franchise or business. *A long post, but bare with me. This could be of help!
> *
> I came to this post through Google as own my own marketing biz, Mint Marketing I'm currently working with a biz that wants me to promote their new waterless car washing product...
> 
> *Anyway, I see a lot of you are worried about providing the best prices for washing or detailing a car.* Forget about it. Yes there's people out there who just want a cheap wash, and they'll pay the lowest price be it £4 or £6 or whatever.
> 
> They aren't your ideal customer and it's best to stay away regardless of how tempting it may be, because you don't or barely make a profit, but more so because they don't care about their cars. In other words, you're highly unlikely to get word of mouth referrals and they are highly unlikely to be loyal. They want a cheap wash and that's the end of it. These are the sort of people who would put Tesco fuel in to a Auti TT 3.2 quattro when it really should be on Shell VPower.
> 
> You're not going to find a Scooby enthusiast with his WRX getting his car washed for a fiver!? Why,, because they understand the value of a premium wash.
> 
> You want the people that DO care about the welfare of their cars, because these are they guys that are going to talk and encourage word of mouth, they're going to appreciate your work, and as a result, they're going to be loyal and come back time again if you've done a good job.
> 
> I've worked with valeters that now charge £20 for a basic wash, and I know people that would pay that. Why? Because the valeters i've worked with are now targeting the right people in fact, £20 is nothing once you explain why its such a HUGE difference to a rubbish £5 'steel wool' wash.
> 
> Think of it like this...
> 
> There's plenty of new 11 and 60 plate BMW 3 Series on the roads right now. Why didn't all those people just save their money and go for a used Vauxhall Insignia or something cheaper?
> 
> Simple, because BMW explained exactly why spending the extra £10K makes sense in the long run. Yes it's more money now BUT:
> 
> - 3 years free servicing saving you £1800 in 3 years (£500 a service, 2 a year) main dealer prices!)
> 
> - 10 MPG better than the Vauxhall saving you £4000 over 3 years in fuel
> 
> - 3 year warranty saving you huge repair bills
> 
> - When you come to sell the car the BMW will be worth £15K whilst the Vauxhall just £9
> - Plus it's a more premium car so more gadgets, a better ride quality bla bla...
> 
> Now BMW has justified the £10K hike in price, it actually makes a lot more sense to choose the BMW in the first place. The exact same logic can be applied to washing and detailing cars. It just had to be done in the right way.
> 
> *Anyway, that's my 2p. Hope it helps!
> 
> Luke*


Top post - a great view on the business.
I'm hoping to get set up at some point this year (worried about the leap from paid employment to self-employed) I'd be looking at the ONR technique, interior vac and glass/dash clean for £20-£30, as you say it's no good targeting the £5 wash market, that's all they want


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## k9vnd

Dnt slap me too hard but whats the real difference from the waterless and going around with a detailer spray both products seem closely the same.


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## Mr Yellow

For any of you going into this, make sure you get your health and safety sorted. I have been trying to be nosey and find out what the ONR products actually are but all I can find are MSDS sheets from other parts of the world... MSDS sheets which are NOT legal in Europe. Perhaps the correct sheets are being provided to all you guys who are using or selling the stuff professionally, in which case this post is moot... but do please be careful because the rules are different in the US. Several common components surfactant components which are commonly used in the US are very much against the rules for use in Europe!


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## The Cueball

rydale13 said:


> Think of it like this...
> 
> There's plenty of new 11 and 60 plate BMW 3 Series on the roads right now. Why didn't all those people just save their money and go for a used Vauxhall Insignia or something cheaper?
> 
> Simple, because BMW explained exactly why spending the extra £10K makes sense in the long run. Yes it's more money now BUT:
> 
> - 3 years free servicing saving you £1800 in 3 years (£500 a service, 2 a year) main dealer prices!)
> 
> - 10 MPG better than the Vauxhall saving you £4000 over 3 years in fuel
> 
> - 3 year warranty saving you huge repair bills
> 
> - When you come to sell the car the BMW will be worth £15K whilst the Vauxhall just £9
> - Plus it's a more premium car so more gadgets, a better ride quality bla bla...
> 
> Now BMW has justified the £10K hike in price, it actually makes a lot more sense to choose the BMW in the first place. The exact same logic can be applied to washing and detailing cars. It just had to be done in the right way.
> 
> *Anyway, that's my 2p. Hope it helps!
> 
> Luke*


I'm sure you are only trying to help, but this bit about the 2 cars is a tad wrong......

Not sure how many miles you think these cars are doing, i'm guessing plenty in order to "save" 4k in fuel (that works out *around* 7.5k miles a year btw )

VX has a lifetime/100k warranty for a start...which is free unlike the extended BMW ones..

A BMW costs more becasue you have to buy most of the "gadgets" and normal people don't need to service a car 2 times a year, in fact our work BMW is 2 years old and still doesn't say it needs serviced....

I understand what you are trying to say, but at the end of the day, people choose a BMW because of their ego, not because of dodgy maths and false promises...ego is the reason most people chose to buy the dearer things in life - they justify it as the more you pay the better it is, and the better their life will look to others...

Just think how bad BMWs really are, most of them don't even come with indicators as standard.... 

:thumb:


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## RobboC

I agree with Rydale13 on the pricing. I'll try not to bore you here with too much detail.

I've worked with lots of small businesses in a sales and marketing role over the years and the one challenge to overcome with all of them is that you don't need to compete on price. Businesses that compete mainly on price are always difficult to run, low on profit, often fail and the owners have quite a tough life.

It's important to get away from price competition and make yourself stand out from the rest. Offer a fantastic service with amazing products at a believable price, have a great sales system, show them the benefits and why they need to use you instead of someone else. Ask questions about their pride and joy and create some emotion around the sale so you don't have to compete on price. This way you will stay in their mind for a long time and will get repeat business. Always make them feel special and always go the extra mile.

It can be hard to start, I'm sure lots of you are doing it, but for those new to it...try it. Knowing your stuff and having a great sales system has worked for every business I've dealt with. Take a sales course perhaps. A lot of us have negative feelings about sales people...first thing you need to do is get rid of them. A real salesperson is someone who is genuinly trying to help you solve a problem such as...'your cars mingin, I can make it like new!' 

Stamp out competeing on price.

Rob.


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## Mr Yellow

RobboC said:


> Stamp out competeing on price.


Excellent. The corollary to this is that knowledgeable consumers must do the same - enough with 57p bottles of APC... or immediately running to the 54p version... we are kidding ourselves if we don't think that we are just getting less and less (in fact, considering the high price of packaging... the quality of products suffer massively for small price reductions at the low price end).


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## The Cueball

x12yhp said:


> Excellent. The corollary to this is that knowledgeable consumers must do the same - enough with 57p bottles of APC... or immediately running to the 54p version... we are kidding ourselves if we don't think that we are just getting less and less (in fact, considering the high price of packaging... the quality of products suffer massively for small price reductions at the low price end).


Not to mention that the cheaper goods actually, normally have to travel further to get to the UK, and are not made in the UK....

Once of the reasons we are in such a mess today is because people wanted to save themselves a few pounds on goods made from China...

:wall::wall::wall:


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## Mr Yellow

The Cueball said:


> Not to mention that the cheaper goods actually, normally have to travel further to get to the UK, and are not made in the UK....
> 
> Once of the reasons we are in such a mess today is because people wanted to save themselves a few pounds on goods made from China...
> 
> :wall::wall::wall:


Whilst wasting endless thousands on their pile of bricks!


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## Mozza

Im someone who is also looking into doing Rinse less valeting/detailing using ONR and smart wax products looking a £20 for an average sized car wash and vac. 

As i have been in sales for many years pushing the Quality of a product/ service is second nature to me. but the big one is pushing VALUE!!!!

This Word Value has taken on a new meaning because of Tescos. there Value is not Value at all it is cheep!!

There is a lot more Value to the customer by having a Quality wash done to there car than 3 cheep ones. 

for instance. a cheep wash will possibly scratch the cars paint work, maybe strip protestants from the paint due to the use of harsh cleaning chemicals, and will not protect the paint meaning it will have to be washed again and it the same techniques and quality of wash is used the effects can quickly be multiplied. 

Buy undergoing a better value wash the car will be at less risk in the wash stage and be better protected for your customer next visit/ appointment meaning the benefits are now multiplied. 

this is where £20 once goes a lot further than £5 often 

Express value to your customer !!!!!

My 2p for you.


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## Teejay

only 2p - good value


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