# I should have bought a diesel GTC.



## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

Slight rant (sorry)

As some of you know, I bought a Astra GTC with a 1.4T petrol engine (140bhp)

My old car was a Astra Sport Hatch with a 1.9 CDTI engine (150bhp)

I'm finding adapting to a petrol engine tough, the engine feels slow, it's thirsty too, despite Vauxhall's 47mpg claim, I'm getting around 37mpg.

My friend went for a drive with me and said I need to work the engine harder, I'm trying to push the car harder but surely revving the crap out of the engine is just going to wear it out faster.

The old diesel engine was a peach compared to this, it pulled like a train and delivered 50mpg however I drove it.

Suddenly that £2,700 premium for the 2.0CDTI engine with 160bhp seems like a bargain.

Never having a petrol engined car again.


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## Laurie.J.M (Jun 23, 2011)

What's the current mileage? Eninges can take quite a bit beyond the recommended run in period to fully loosen up, once that's happened you're MPG should improve as will the performance.


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## rinns (May 24, 2008)

T.D.K said:


> Slight rant (sorry)
> 
> My friend went for a drive with me and said I need to work the engine harder, I'm trying to push the car harder but surely revving the crap out of the engine is just going to wear it out faster.
> 
> Never having a petrol engined car again.


Get it revved to hell, it aint gonna wear it out unless you do it from cold all the time, my work car is a non turbo 325i and I rev the crap out of it all the time, im addicted. Its got 140k on the clock and pulling strong.


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## rinns (May 24, 2008)

Laurie.J.M said:


> What's the current mileage? Eninges can take quite a bit beyond the recommended run in period to fully loosen up, once that's happened you're MPG should improve as will the performance.


Im not buying this, they all lie about MPG, how much can it loosen up, our diesel 2.2 has only 500 on the clock but I got 30MPG out of it on a 400 mile run. It aint gonne loosen up 10MPG surely?


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

Laurie.J.M said:


> What's the current mileage? Eninges can take quite a bit beyond the recommended run in period to fully loosen up, once that's happened you're MPG should improve as will the performance.


1,782 miles on the clock. It's still early days I know but the car feels overweight and slow.



rinns said:


> Get it revved to hell, it aint gonna wear it out unless you do it from cold all the time, my work car is a non turbo 325i and I rev the crap out of it all the time, im addicted. Its got 140k on the clock and pulling strong.


I'm still in diesel mode, 2,500rpm and I change gear automatically, the 1.9 engine really pulled at this range but this car doesn't like it.

I should say, I have finance on this car so I'm also scared to break something before I actually pay the loan off.


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

rinns said:


> Im not buying this, they all lie about MPG, how much can it loosen up, our diesel 2.2 has only 500 on the clock but I got 30MPG out of it on a 400 mile run. It aint gonne loosen up 10MPG surely?


You have a diesel Audi? My dad's diesel A4 was chronically tight until around 10,000 miles then it felt much more loose and nippier.

Autocar have a GTC on their fleet and have reported a looser, more economical engine after 8,000 miles


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## eddie bullit (Nov 23, 2007)

Changing at 2.5k is way too low for a modern petrol..3 to 3.5k for plodding should help the engine feel a little more responsive..dont let it labour. It doesnt have the torque of a diesel remember. Petrol will feel slower as well because of a more linear delivery to the power ie no on boost acceleration.
Edd


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

they do take some miles to loosen up diesel more so, however i would say take it on a blast somewhere when it is warm it ensures everything gets seated nicely and sometimes can increase your cars performance in the long run rather than if you do not. the important bits are when it is warm and after a decent run give a bit of time to breath at the end...do not forget most cars are red lined following production anyway...

you are clearly missing the torque of the diesel more than anything by the sounds i must admit i have got used to it in mine very rarely do i go anywhere near 3K these days :lol:


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Oh my days are we still having this issue!!, Mate seriously at the weekend half a tank and tke it for a right good skelping to the red line, not only is your changing at 2.5k not doing the engine any good it will start to run poor and foul the plugs.

DRIVE IT!!


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> Oh my days are we still having this issue!!, Mate seriously at the weekend half a tank and tke it for a right good skelping to the red line, not only is your changing at 2.5k not doing the engine any good it will start to run poor and foul the plugs.
> 
> DRIVE IT!!


got to be careful with the words issue Grizz....


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

Ninja59 said:


> they do take some miles to loosen up diesel more so, however i would say take it on a blast somewhere when it is warm it ensures everything gets seated nicely and sometimes can increase your cars performance in the long run rather than if you do not. the important bits are when it is warm and after a decent run give a bit of time to breath at the end...do not forget most cars are red lined following production anyway...
> 
> you are clearly missing the torque of the diesel more than anything by the sounds i must admit i have got used to it in mine very rarely do i go anywhere near 3K these days :lol:


Yep. I miss the thrust/urgency of the diesel engine. I thought the petrol engine would have similar performance as my diesel as it has a turbo and has 140bhp. The turbo doesn't seem to do anything but whistle.


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

Grizzle said:


> Oh my days are we still having this issue!!, Mate seriously at the weekend half a tank and tke it for a right good skelping to the red line, not only is your changing at 2.5k not doing the engine any good it will start to run poor and foul the plugs.
> 
> DRIVE IT!!


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

this appears a simple issue that you are to much of a diesel gypsy...

find some lanes and just mash your foot into the carpet.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

T.D.K said:


>


Come one you know we are right!  :thumb:


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> *Come one* you know we are right!  :thumb:


sure you mean that ? :lol:


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Unfortunately the 1.4 turbo engine you have is not that well regarded - you'll never get near the 47mpg that Vauxhall claim, in fact I'm surprised you're getting as much as 37 mpg, Autocar achieved 31.5mpg on their mixed drive route

IIRC peak power is delivered at just below 5k (quite low for a petrol) so just drive the damned thing - changing up at 2.5 is not going to do the engine any favours


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## BigAshD (Feb 23, 2012)

Diesels don't run in as much as petrol engines, because they are designed to rev lower. You need to rev a turbo-charged car to get the most of the boost (which effectively increases the engine size). It is far worse for the engine to labour it by changing early than allowing it to rev. As others have said, as long as it's warm when you start to rev it, it will keep the engine in better condition.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Ninja59 said:


> sure you mean that ? :lol:


haha this is going to sound odd but i started scrolling down and before i came to my post thought "i bloody hope i haven't said one instead of on"

Ohh and yeh there it is lmao.


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

andy665 said:


> Unfortunately the 1.4 turbo engine you have is not that well regarded - you'll never get near the 47mpg that Vauxhall claim, in fact I'm surprised you're getting as much as 37 mpg, Autocar achieved 31.5mpg on their mixed drive route
> 
> IIRC peak power is delivered at just below 5k (quite low for a petrol) so just drive the damned thing - changing up at 2.5 is not going to do the engine any favours


Thanks, didn't Autocar review the 1.6T petrol though? Your probably right but I'm sure it wasn't the 1.4T they reviewed. They also have the 1.6T on fleet.

I don't understand how a diesel can be more powerful yet return better economy. I really thought petrol engines had changed - clearly not.

Working the engine harder is surely going to hit the economy?



Grizzle said:


> Come one you know we are right!  :thumb:


You are indeed quite right. When I do push the car though, a thought runs in my head 'what if you break it?' I owe money on this car :doublesho



BigAshD said:


> Diesels don't run in as much as petrol engines, because they are designed to rev lower. You need to rev a turbo-charged car to get the most of the boost (which effectively increases the engine size). It is far worse for the engine to labour it by changing early than allowing it to rev. As others have said, as long as it's warm when you start to rev it, it will keep the engine in better condition.


Thanks for your thoughts. Guess I'm going to have to hit that accelerater harder.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

T.D.K said:


> You are indeed quite right. When I do push the car though, a thought runs in my head 'what if you break it?' I owe money on this car :doublesho


I probably know that feeling more than anyone mate i fully understand, but you have a warranty should anything go wrong.

Please tell me you will give it a little more poke? :thumb:


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

T.D.K said:


> Thanks, didn't Autocar review the 1.6T petrol though? Your probably right but I'm sure it wasn't the 1.4T they reviewed. They also have the 1.6T on fleet.
> 
> I don't understand how a diesel can be more powerful yet return better economy. I really thought petrol engines had changed - clearly not.
> 
> ...


more torque to get moving as opposed to actual bhp output in addition it keeps the revs lower all the time...main problem with the majority of diesels is that power still comes in great waves and then nothing...although mine does seem linear but no where near as linear as some petrols.

working any engine harder will use more fuel simples you can not get around physics.

if i had a thought of what if i break mine - well then it "could" happen to anyone...any car anywhere in the world. it is under warranty to if it was designed for X revs then do not over rev it because clearly that was designed to the revs it was for!


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

The two have completely different driving styles. Diesels are lazy and rely on the torque, with a petrol you need to rev it a little harder, I would guess the 1.4 would start producing its torque between 2500 to 5000, run it in to around 1500 miles then gradually extend the rev range over the next 500 miles until you can find the rev limiter, it will have an effect on the fuel consumption but will Akers you smile. My past 3 cars have been diesel and the cupra is petrol, it does less mpg's but goes like a rocket all the way to 7k and not really coming o life until 3700rpm. Yes the mpg is lower but it's a small price to pay for something that doesn't rattle when you sit at traffic lights 

Oh and 37mpg is good


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

Grizzle said:


> I probably know that feeling more than anyone mate i fully understand, but you have a warranty should anything go wrong.
> 
> Please tell me you will give it a little more poke? :thumb:


I will push her a bit harder. Starting tomorrow :thumb: Thanks :thumb:



Ninja59 said:


> more torque to get moving as opposed to actual bhp output in addition it keeps the revs lower all the time...main problem with the majority of diesels is that power still comes in great waves and then nothing...although mine does seem linear but no where near as linear as some petrols.
> 
> working any engine harder will use more fuel simples you can not get around physics.
> 
> if i had a thought of what if i break mine - well then it "could" happen to anyone...any car anywhere in the world. it is under warranty to if it was designed for X revs then do not over rev it because clearly that was designed to the revs it was for!


It may sound silly but my old car's diesel engine felt bulletproof, I used to really push that car and the engine felt happy to to be pushed. This petrol engine feels delicate in comparison. I'm just being silly


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

well least by having a diesel i can tell i still have an engine under there :lol: oh and the children that inevitably hear the diesel plodder...as they step into the road.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Ninja59 said:


> well least by having a diesel i can tell i still have an engine under there :lol: oh and the children that inevitably here the diesel plodder...as they step into the road.


and yer smelly hand :lol:

37mpg isnt bad i average 32 driving locally and easily 40mpg on the motorway.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Here you go

"Great hopes are invested in the 1.4-litre petrol turbo and around town it is impressive off the mark, smooth and refined. When the roads open out it is less impressive, however. You need to use the revs to maintain performance but the power delivery feels flat and lifeless at high revs" - Telegraph

"1.4-litre SRI. The four-cylinder turbo is still a bit flat down low, but it’s smoother and quieter than the diesel, and it’s more enjoyable to work through the rev range too" - CAR

"Under the bonnet, the new turbocharged 1.4-litre engine is designed to replace the old 1.8-litre unit. It develops 138bhp at 4,900rpm, making the Astra the most powerful car here. However, it doesn’t press home its advantage, as its on-paper pace doesn’t translate to the road. The smooth-revving unit doesn’t seem like it’s turbocharged, as there’s no tell-tale whistle and its power delivery is linear. But it’s hard to tell that it produces 138bhp – the 120bhp Golf feels more responsive" - Auto Express

"The less good news is that the 138bhp 1.4-litre turbocharged petrol engine in this basic version can’t deliver the sort of performance the chassis deserves. It’s an anaemic unit – spinning smoothly, but without any mid-range enthusiasm and with a tight-feeling top end. It’s been tuned to deliver on official economy and CO2 figures of course – 140g/km and 47.1 mpg if you’re interested. But there’s no joy to be found in using it to try and make rapid progress" - EVO

"The new, smaller, turbo engine producing substantially more torque (147lb ft compared with 129lb ft) at markedly fewer revs (1850rpm rather than 3800rpm). It’s a willing and smooth performer, too: there’s hardly any identifiable lag and its note is keen" - Autocar


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

And the smog that comes with them and makes them sound like route master buses


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> and yer smelly hand :lol:
> 
> 37mpg isnt bad i average 32 driving locally and easily 40mpg on the motorway.


I am not like that Grizz :doublesho

always like to wipe away paupers inevitable dirty hands away from the pump i will be confining myself "to fill her up."


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

Ninja59 said:


> well least by having a diesel i can tell i still have an engine under there :lol: oh and the children that inevitably hear the diesel plodder...as they step into the road.


Hehe :thumb:

I don't miss the diesel clatter. That's the only thing though!


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Petrol engines need revs. Our Toyota with the VVTi engine thrives on them and delivers better mpg than changing up too soon. My BMW seems to deliver better mpg giving it some revs, even up to the red line. Diesels are all about low end torque and deliver power about 2000rpm. Rev a diesel too hard and they sup juice.


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## J1ODY A (Nov 28, 2008)

a 1.4 petrol engine in a car the size of an Astra.... it was never going to be good... the old Corsa VXR even has a 1.6 IIRC

and sounds like you drive like a girl too... 2.5k aint working that turbo much!


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

J1ODY A said:


> a 1.4 petrol engine in a car the size of an Astra.... it was never going to be good... the old Corsa VXR even has a 1.6 IIRC
> 
> and sounds like you drive like a girl too... 2.5k aint working that turbo much!


It's 140 bhp, hardly lacking in power, an Astra is hardly a big car, TDK just needs to adapt to the characteristics of a petrol engine. Engine capacity is irrelevant


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## Pezza4u (Jun 7, 2007)

T.D.K said:


> My friend went for a drive with me and said I need to work the engine harder, I'm trying to push the car harder but surely revving the crap out of the engine is just going to wear it out faster.


I know what you mean mate. I had a 1.8 TD for 6 years, which never went past 4k rpm and didn't take much work to get it going. My new car is a petrol that revs to 8.2k rpm!! To start with (and sometimes still do) I wasn't revving it enough and changing gear low down like it was a diesel. You could feel the car struggling with this. The engine doesn't come to life until you hit 6.2k rpm but you still need to work it before hitting this point.


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## Derbyshire-stig (Dec 22, 2010)

tbh the way you looked at buying this car was wrong, you dont use the bhp as a measuring stick, its the torque that shifts you, there is no way a 1.4 petrol will have the same torque as a diesel so there is no way you can drive it like your used to,
Its what Ive told everyone on here thats mentioned the smaller petrol engine and thought it was the way forward, it may look good on emissions and tax but day to day its like chalk and cheese.


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Can you even change gear below 2.5k? 

Anyhoot going from a 1.9 Diesel Turbo to a 1.4 petrol turbo is of course going to feel slower, probably because it is. I'm not even a diesel fan but the 1.9 diesel is a much much better engine anyway.

An engine that size in a car that size just doesn't compute at all. Sorry mate. 

Did you not test drive one?


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Ah but while the torque might be lower it will be available across a greater area of the rev range, and if you drop down a cog then you will find it goes much quicker than a derv


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Derbyshire-stig said:


> Its what Ive told everyone on here thats mentioned the smaller petrol engine and thought it was the way forward, it may look good on emissions and tax but day to day its like chalk and cheese.


Different, not necessarily worse 

My daily driver is a diesel and as a diesel its fine, give me my rev happy M50 manifolded 328i or V6 Alfa every day though, all three engines are good at what they do, they simply go about things differently


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## dann2707 (Mar 25, 2011)

I had the exact same problem you're experiencing when going from my TDi focus (90bhp) to my 1.4 16v Rover metro (103bhp).

After doing the engine change in the Metro I went for a drive and I was unbelievably disheartened, thought that all my efforts went to waste.

Purely because I was driving it like my Focus, shifting too early. I went home that night and could have cried it was horrible. Then the next day I decided to give it more power, and was so thankful that I did as the power comes in at around 5k revs no 2.5k ish I was used to on the diesel.

I loved it, and couldn't get enough of it as the power delivery wasn't slow, it was brutal and sudden. Such a fast little car, no Audi or VW businessmen ******s could even touch it on back roads etc.

But then I got a bit bored of having to really rag it to get the power out of it, having to change gear to over take etc so went back to diesel haha.

But yeah, drive it _hard_ and stop being a pussy  !


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## brobbo (Oct 19, 2007)

Should have got the corsa vxr something like 200lbft @2200, thing flies


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

Derbyshire-stig said:


> tbh the way you looked at buying this car was wrong, you dont use the bhp as a measuring stick, its the torque that shifts you, there is no way a 1.4 petrol will have the same torque as a diesel so there is no way you can drive it like your used to,
> Its what Ive told everyone on here thats mentioned the smaller petrol engine and thought it was the way forward, it may look good on emissions and tax but day to day its like chalk and cheese.


agreed. does bhp mean how quickly the engine delievers the torque and the torque is the force that turns the wheels??


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## dann2707 (Mar 25, 2011)

Paintmaster1982 said:


> agreed. does bhp mean how quickly the engine delievers the torque and the torque is the force that turns the wheels??


BHP sells cars
Torque wins races


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

dann2707 said:


> BHP sells cars
> Torque wins races


not strictley true, F1 cars have 750bhp and very little torque, Honda engines are another good example, next to no torque but one in the right gear will beat a diesel, and it will only have one gear change and not 47


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

i think i prefer torque


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I thought like that when i had my 3 diesels, but with the cupra i have the best of both worlds


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## RD55 DUN (Dec 30, 2008)

SteveTDCi said:


> not strictley true, F1 cars have 750bhp and very little torque, Honda engines are another good example, next to no torque but one in the right gear will beat a diesel, and it will only have one gear change and not 47


I love changing gear at 8k :argie:


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

SteveTDCi said:


> not strictley true, F1 cars have 750bhp and very little torque, Honda engines are another good example, next to no torque but one in the right gear will beat a diesel, and it will only have one gear change and not 47


iam sure i see a prog on the mclaren f1 team a few months back about a typical car engine has the same torque as an f1 car but because the f1 car can rev to 18000rpm + then its power is far greater and all the way up there.
i think they are a 2.4 90 degree V8

or something like that.


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## Paintmaster1982 (Oct 23, 2007)

SteveTDCi said:


> I thought like that when i had my 3 diesels, but with the cupra i have the best of both worlds


the way i see it diesels have more usable power where as an petrol the torque is in the higher end of the rev range.

I always think of diesels as a bit clumsy. I can't imagine ragging a diesel down a country lane it just doesnt have the same ring to it as a petrol.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Ninja59 said:


> well least by having a diesel i can tell i still have an engine under there :lol: oh and the children that inevitably hear the diesel plodder...as they step into the road.


Yeah, you can really notice that tractor like rattle in yours


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

RisingPower said:


> Yeah, you can really notice that tractor like rattle in yours


at least i did not fit something then have to remove because someone's pensioners ears are not what they used to be...

oh it does sound like a tractor...


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Ninja59 said:


> at least i did not fit something then have to remove because someone's pensioners ears are not what they used to be...
> 
> oh it does sound like a tractor...


Hey, i had to remove it because it was too loud for me 

Tbh i still get headaches on long journeys


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

RisingPower said:


> Hey, i had to remove it because it was too loud for me
> 
> Tbh i still get headaches on long journeys


:lol: pensioner...

tbh i cannot be bothered arguing tonight


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Ninja59 said:


> :lol: pensioner...
> 
> tbh i cannot be bothered arguing tonight


Says the ovlov flat cap werthers original g&t driver


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

RisingPower said:


> Says the ovlov c30 diesel g&t driver


What are you trying to imply my dear boy?  (oh and btw the last time i had a G & T or alcohol was in January!)


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

Wow thanks for all the additional comments since I last looked. :thumb:

I pushed the car more today, the roads were surprisingly quiet driving from work at 6pm so I pushed her harder, changing from 3,500-4,000 RPM. This made a significant difference, the car responded well to this, giving me a boost after changing gear.

The turbo becomes quite prominent at 4,000rpm noise wise but I've never felt it pull the car, as the diesel did.

I think I was labouring the engine before, as the average fuel consumption actually rose by 1mpg - not much but seeing as I was pushing it more, it was reassuring to see it not drinking the juice, although I don't know how accurate these computer readings are.

Quite a throaty sounding engine, a bit boomy but sounds pretty sweet when being pushed. Turbo whistle is just divine too. :argie:

I'm alot happier with the car today, I even chucked her around some country lanes at considerable speed and it remained composed and totally safe. Great chassis on this car.


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

T.D.K said:


> Wow thanks for all the additional comments since I last looked. :thumb:
> 
> I pushed the car more today, the roads were surprisingly quiet driving from work at 6pm so I pushed her harder, changing from 3,500-4,000 RPM. This made a significant difference, the car responded well to this, giving me a boost after changing gear.
> 
> ...


now go panic buy some petrol. like every other f*cker seems to be doing :lol:


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

Ninja59 said:


> now go panic buy some petrol. like every other f*cker seems to be doing :lol:


After seeing the PM recommending topping up your fuel tanks, I filled the GTC right up. £70. :doublesho:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Ninja59 said:


> What are you trying to imply my dear boy?  (oh and btw the last time i had a G & T or alcohol was in January!)


That you can't hear the difference between a tractor and a lambo v10 anymore as your hearing has gone in your old age


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

RisingPower said:


> That you can't hear the difference between a tractor and a lambo v10 anymore as your hearing has gone in your old age


coming from you...i believe you are the old codger


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

T.D.K said:


> After seeing the PM recommending topping up your fuel tanks, I filled the GTC right up. £70. :doublesho:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho


love the first bit! :lol:


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

I'm still in shock at the cost.

44 litres for £70. :doublesho:doublesho:doublesho


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

T.D.K said:


> I'm still in shock at the cost.
> 
> 44 litres for £70. :doublesho:doublesho:doublesho


i could not honestly tell you how much i shoved in yesterday i only remember the pump cutting out at around 54 something so made it 55 :lol: about a 1/4 full


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## rinns (May 24, 2008)

T.D.K said:


> I'm still in shock at the cost.
> 
> 44 litres for £70. :doublesho:doublesho:doublesho


Glad i got rid of a q7 a while back, 100 litre tank is enough to upset folk!


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## Justa (Oct 23, 2008)

Just to add to this - for general driving diesels are best imo - petrols unless they are over 2 litre or have a turbo fitted feel gutless compared to a lovely torquey diesel - especially at motorway speeds.

But if your driving down a country b road is its a high revving petrol engine all the way !


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## dann2707 (Mar 25, 2011)

Justa said:


> Just to add to this - for general driving diesels are best imo - petrols unless they are over 2 litre or have a turbo fitted feel gutless compared to a lovely torquey diesel - especially at motorway speeds.
> 
> But if your driving down a country b road is its a high revving petrol engine all the way !


Completely agree, Well not sure about the turbo thingy as i've never driven a forced induction petrol engined car, but the last bit. Mine still fastish (1.8 TDCi) but pretty boring for B roads.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Justa said:


> Just to add to this - for general driving diesels are best imo - petrols unless they are over 2 litre or have a turbo fitted feel gutless compared to a lovely torquey diesel - especially at motorway speeds.
> 
> But if your driving down a country b road is its a high revving petrol engine all the way !


I wouldn't ever recommend a diesel unless it's used regularly for longer distance journeys though.


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

^^ Totally agree

Some new age petrols are easily seeing 40+mpg these days.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I agree. Ith the above too


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

I took my dads car to work yesterday morning. I was late leaving so I drove it like I stole it. The diesel engine was fantastic. Nippy, responsive and had the urgency I really miss.

Not to mention that in the diesel, I used to change gear really quickly, in this petrol car, it clunks and doesn't seem to like it.

I'm trying to like this engine but Jesus, it feels like old technology compared to a diesel.

I haven't even done the second payment yet and I want to get a diesel GTC.

Love the car, hate the engine.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

T.D.K said:


> I took my dads car to work yesterday morning. I was late leaving so I drove it like I stole it. The diesel engine was fantastic. Nippy, responsive and had the urgency I really miss.
> 
> Not to mention that in the diesel, I used to change gear really quickly, in this petrol car, it clunks and doesn't seem to like it.
> 
> ...


Seems a bit odd to me that the derv is responsive or has urgency, even more odd that the gears would clunk if you change quickly.

The only reason I can think of is maybe you're changing quickly in the lower revs and not keeping in the power band?

You're still driving it like it was a derv aren't you?


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

RisingPower said:


> Seems a bit odd to me that the derv is responsive or has urgency, even more odd that the gears would clunk if you change quickly.
> 
> The only reason I can think of is maybe you're changing quickly in the lower revs and not keeping in the power band?
> 
> You're still driving it like it was a derv aren't you?


1st to 2nd gear, I can't figure it out, the car just clunks. I'm revving it higher, but maybe it's still not enough. Petrol cars are just too much hassle.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

T.D.K said:


> 1st to 2nd gear, I can't figure it out, the car just clunks. I'm revving it higher, but maybe it's still not enough. Petrol cars are just too much hassle.


Higher than what? Doesn't sound like a petrol car is the kind of car for you, presuming it's mainly motorway miles/city driving.

For me, i'd rather have a petrol for country roads which is where I mostly drive, diesels have too limited a rev range.


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## Matt. (Aug 26, 2007)

Drive the Astra like you stole it you wuss!


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

Matt. said:


> Drive the Astra like you stole it you wuss!


I keep thinking the car is saying 'ow what are you doing to me' everytime I floor her.



RisingPower said:


> Higher than what? Doesn't sound like a petrol car is the kind of car for you, presuming it's mainly motorway miles/city driving.
> For me, i'd rather have a petrol for country roads which is where I mostly drive, diesels have too limited a rev range.


It's about 50% country lanes and 50% duel carriagway to my work place. I meant that I am revving the car higher than before (when this thread was started)


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## Matt. (Aug 26, 2007)

Is there some sort of get out clause in your agreement? Failing that, sell it and buy a Diesel Astra again.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

T.D.K said:


> It's about 50% country lanes and 50% duel carriagway to my work place. I meant that I am revving the car higher than before (when this thread was started)


In that case, you're driving like an old woman  I don't get it, wales has some lovely roads and you're driving like an old woman 

I wouldn't see the appeal of driving a derv on my commute which is similar, aside from the fact that traffic means you're lucky to go faster than 30 anywhere. That and maybe it would be cheaper, but i'm not really sure how much for ~20 miles a day.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

'up-ed' your changes to 3500 - 4000rpm?! MAN UP!

Get your foot down! Hold it in gear to 7000rpm! Seriously......rev limiters are there to stop you damaging the car.....and they're WAY above 4,000rpm.


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## wayne10244 (Aug 24, 2008)

But don't forget the new Astra gtc is bigger than your old Astra and now your got a smaller engine as well I looked at the gtc 2.0 l diesel 165bhp and £90 road tax but I love my vectra c Sri xp with 204 bhp and on the motorway get just over 60 to the gallon


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

RisingPower said:


> In that case, you're driving like an old woman  I don't get it, wales has some lovely roads and you're driving like an old woman
> 
> I wouldn't see the appeal of driving a derv on my commute which is similar, aside from the fact that traffic means you're lucky to go faster than 30 anywhere. That and maybe it would be cheaper, but i'm not really sure how much for ~20 miles a day.


My 1.4 206 does better on fuel compared to the diesels I've owned in the past. Some of the newer diesels are better but it the rattling and noise that gets me, for town work get a small car like a fiesta or vw up. The future is petrol and I think we are going going to see a resurgence in them. If you drive the petrol quick enough I'm sure yo will get to like it


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

I'm so embarrassed that the diesel-petrol change is taking me so long to adapt to 

I never floored my old astra CDTI, just tapped the accelerator and the engine did the rest and it flew.

So when I was full performance of this 1.4T petrol engine ie: pulling off on a steep incline, should I just floor it?

I know it's stupid but this was never needed in on my previous two cars.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

T.D.K said:


> I'm so embarrassed that the diesel-petrol change is taking me so long to adapt to
> 
> I never floored my old astra CDTI, just tapped the accelerator and the engine did the rest and it flew.
> 
> ...


Small petrol engines have no torque at low revs, flooring it, well I think you can maybe go somewhere inbetween


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

RisingPower said:


> Small petrol engines have no torque at low revs, flooring it, well I think you can maybe go somewhere inbetween


Ahhhhhhhh, what a nightmare, give me a DeLorean, I'll go back in time and get a proper engine (diesel)


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

a proper engine?... diesel? oh dear!!

You need to adjust your style of driving i.e stop being lazy 

Hold revs longer, drop gears sooner it will slowly all come back to you.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

T.D.K said:


> Ahhhhhhhh, what a nightmare, give me a DeLorean, I'll go back in time and get a proper engine (diesel)


There's no such thing as a proper diesel engine, grizz would know


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

RisingPower said:


> There's no such thing as a proper diesel engine, grizz would know


True :lol:


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

RisingPower said:


> There's no such thing as a proper diesel engine, grizz would know


I heard he knows the inner workings of Skoda UK quite well though espcially if i dare mention clutches and xenons...:thumb:


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## Ninja59 (Feb 17, 2009)

Grizzle said:


> a proper engine?... diesel? oh dear!!
> 
> You need to adjust your style of driving i.e stop being lazy
> 
> Hold revs longer, drop gears sooner it will slowly all come back to you.


there you go...


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Ninja59 said:


> I heard he knows the inner workings of Skoda UK quite well though espcially if i dare mention clutches and xenons...:thumb:


Oi... your never too old for a kick square in the nuts!

:lol:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Grizzle said:


> Oi... your never too old for a kick square in the nuts!
> 
> :lol:


Yeah but you can be too old to be able to kick


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## s.bailey (Mar 2, 2012)

I've got the Renault version of this engine the 1.4TCe petrol, and it is a PEACH! Not literally obviously but its near enough the same output as yours, BHP and Torque but mine feels so much faster than the 9 second 0-60 and the mid range is cracking, 6th gear from 50-60 is nippy, 3rd gear at that speed feels fast!

Perhaps it's your perception, a diesel always feels like it's got a kick from about 1200 RPM and obviously changing at 2500RPM is fine as it's practically done by then.

Give it time and if it still doesnt feel right get it back to the dealer to check out.

P.S Love the GTC great looking car!


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

I'm still finding this engine annoyingly slow.

I can't find any sweet spot where the car responds particularly well. I can hear the turbo whistling but I can't feel it pulling the car at all.

It's chronically thirsty, 37.6mpg is terrible and even then I don't think the trip computer is telling the truth.

Some other owners have reported the engine is better after 8,000 miles, mine has just touched 3,000 so maybe it's not run in yet but I still think diesel cars are better.


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## Derbyshire-stig (Dec 22, 2010)

T.D.K said:


> I'm still finding this engine annoyingly slow.
> 
> I can't find any sweet spot where the car responds particularly well. I can hear the turbo whistling but I can't feel it pulling the car at all.
> 
> ...


best way to check the consumption is fill it to the brim, do a few miles and refill, work out what miles you have done on the top up.


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

Never found a trip computer that gets within 3mpg of the actual.

As has already been said the only way to get an accurate figure is to brim it, run it for a few hundred miles, re- brim and divide the miles travelled by the fuel used

If you are getting 37.6 I'd suggest that's not bad, certainly hope you are not expecting any more

If you don't like revs and want maximum mpg why on earth did you buy a petrol?


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

Have you taken it to the redline yet? When accelerating hard, do you ever get to the redline for more than one gear?

Did you test drive the car before buying it? 

Give it some welly! It is never going to loosen up properly if you granny shift.


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## dann2707 (Mar 25, 2011)

Have you considered getting it on a rolling road to see if it's actually outputting the right power? Also would be able to see power delivery.

You could maybe fit a boost gauge too? See if it's boosting right.


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

andy665 said:


> Never found a trip computer that gets within 3mpg of the actual.
> 
> As has already been said the only way to get an accurate figure is to brim it, run it for a few hundred miles, re- brim and divide the miles travelled by the fuel used
> 
> ...


I went for a petrol due to the huge additional cost of having a diesel model. Vauxhall claimed 47.8MPG for this engine which is just under what I got from my diesel Astra H sport hatch.



roscopervis said:


> Have you taken it to the redline yet? When accelerating hard, do you ever get to the redline for more than one gear?
> 
> Did you test drive the car before buying it?
> 
> Give it some welly! It is never going to loosen up properly if you granny shift.


I've never driven it to the red line.


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## dann2707 (Mar 25, 2011)

T.D.K said:


> I've never driven it to the red line.


:tumbleweed:

Feels like this threads going around in circles...

You're complaining the car is slow but yet you're not using all the available power. It's frustrating to read!


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

dann2707 said:


> :tumbleweed:
> 
> Feels like this threads going around in circles...
> 
> You're complaining the car is slow but yet you're not using all the available power. It's frustrating to read!


I agree, it is going around in circles but I find it annoying that I have to rev the hell out of the car to get the sort of power that my old diesel had at 2,000-2,500 revs.


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## Lee.GTi180 (Apr 28, 2010)

SWMBO has the 1.8 SRi Astra H (140) bhp and I wouldn't call it fast by any stretch of the imagination. 140 bhp just isn't that much in this size a car!


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

T.D.K said:


> I agree, it is going around in circles but I find it annoying that I have to rev the hell out of the car to get the sort of power that my old diesel had at 2,000-2,500 revs.


But thats what you have to do with petrols, if you want the power between 2-2500 then petrol isn't your bag. They have 2 completly different driving styles, petrols you can have fun with, diesels (with the exception of a few) are for lazy people


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## andy665 (Nov 1, 2005)

TDK - you are trying to compare apples with pears - diesel and petrol engines have completely different characteristics - you need to adapt

I bet the claimed mpg of your old 1.7 diesel was a damned sight more than what you actually achieved. I have never met anyone who has got lose to the claimed figures - I assumed everyone knew that such tests are conducted in highly artificial conditions that can NEVER br replicated in the real world

Your car achieves max power at 4900 rpm and max torque from 1850 - 4900 rpm - if you are changing up much below 4500 then it's going to feel slow - just don't ever expect it to have the mid range torque of a turbo diesel, no 1.4 petrol will


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## Pezza4u (Jun 7, 2007)

T.D.K said:


> I agree, it is going around in circles but I find it annoying that I have to rev the hell out of the car to get the sort of power that my old diesel had at 2,000-2,500 revs.





SteveTDCi said:


> But thats what you have to do with petrols, if you want the power between 2-2500 then petrol isn't your bag. They have 2 completly different driving styles, petrols you can have fun with, diesels (with the exception of a few) are for lazy people


Agree with this, after 6 years of driving a diesel I think I've finally sussed my petrol car out and that's taken me 6 months to get rid of old habits! Mine revs to 8,200 but I was only really changing up before 3,500 - 4,000 unless I wanted to hit lift (Toyota's Vtec), which kicks in at 6,200. I now floor it to 6,000 whenever I can before changing and the car responds so much better. I really have to work the engine to get the best out of it so can't be lazy like I was in my old diesel. Just stick your foot down mate! :driver:


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## dann2707 (Mar 25, 2011)

And that's why I changed to diesel from petrol. Changing down gears to overtake gets tedious!


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## dew1911 (Jun 9, 2009)

T.D.K said:


> I'm still finding this engine annoyingly slow.
> 
> I can't find any sweet spot where the car responds particularly well. I can hear the turbo whistling but I can't feel it pulling the car at all.
> 
> ...


Funny I was looking at the GTC when my mum was picking up her Corsa, the dealerships info said the combined economy was 7mpg :doublesho

I can't see why anyone would buy a Petrol this side of 300bhp these days, Diesels are just better cars.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

dew1911 said:


> I can't see why anyone would buy a Petrol this side of 300bhp these days, Diesels are just better cars.


Horses for courses really. I've just changed to a diesel, and am slightly missing the petrol tbh as all the power seems to be at the low end then drops off whereas the petrol kept on going.

Give me brushless DC motors any day


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## *Das* (Aug 9, 2010)

Sorry if I missed this but did you not test drive the 1.4T before you bought it?


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

dew1911 said:


> I can't see why anyone would buy a Petrol this side of 300bhp these days, Diesels are just better cars.


Only if you like noise and vibration, the smell of diesel, DMF's that fail, injectors that fail, turbo's that go pop, cost more to fuel and have a limited rev range, the only quick diesels are those from BMW and a few Audi lumps :thumb:


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## dew1911 (Jun 9, 2009)

SteveTDCi said:


> Only if you like noise and vibration, the smell of diesel, DMF's that fail, injectors that fail, turbo's that go pop, cost more to fuel and have a limited rev range, the only quick diesels are those from BMW and a few Audi lumps :thumb:


Funny, I've had nothing but Diesel's since I was 17 (5 cars now) and only ever had 1 DMF fail, and no other of these problems you seem to think all diesel's have...

As for the limited rev range, I'd rarther have the power there at 1500 revs, then nothing till you get to 7k.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I've had 3 and never again, i missed DPF's off there, Focus's love DPF's ours are forever breaking. Having said that we i've got a Galaxy off the road at the minute, the lease company are refusing to pick up the bill (£953 + VAT) for a clutch and DMF ... this will be the 4th in 33k - its a 2006 car


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

Diesels are for lazy people? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

The word you are looking for is efficient. 

If there is a hard way and an easy way to the same result, then you would just have to be ignorant, naive or a masochist to choose the hard way wouldn't you?

Yes OP, you should have bought the diesel. And not the eco version either.


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## dew1911 (Jun 9, 2009)

SteveTDCi said:


> I've had 3 and never again, i missed DPF's off there, Focus's love DPF's ours are forever breaking. Having said that we i've got a Galaxy off the road at the minute, the lease company are refusing to pick up the bill (£953 + VAT) for a clutch and DMF ... *this will be the 4th in 33k* - its a 2006 car


I'd try adjusting the nut behind the wheel, can have amazing results :thumb: :lol:


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

dew1911 said:


> I'd try adjusting the nut behind the wheel, can have amazing results :thumb: :lol:


Its a pool vehicle and there are about 50 zillion people that have a go, we had another one that got up to 4 clutches too ... someone hit a skip a couple of months ago but the best was and LDV that got stuck in a drive thru, miss fuels happen quite a lot too !


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## roscopervis (Aug 22, 2006)

T.D.K said:


> I agree, it is going around in circles but I find it annoying that I have to rev the hell out of the car to get the sort of power that my old diesel had at 2,000-2,500 revs.


Petrol's LIKE to rev, Diesel's DON'T! For a car related forum user I seriously wonder what you were thinking about when buying the car, quite probably before a test drive!

"Listen, and understand. That car is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." It is a machine!

It doesn't feel pain, and was designed to rev to the red line. In fact, it is required every now and again to keep it health. Sell it now or swap it if you cant bring yourself to give it some beans. I personally wouldn't buy a car off you, it's probably clogged to hell!


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## evil kegs (Jan 11, 2012)

drives like a pussy lol


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

I think he needs to do a video of himself driving :speechles I can't understand how he can't have any fun though - I used to thrash my old little Fiesta every now and again and it was great even though it didn't have much power. 

Last week on a business trip I ended up with a 1.0L 123bhp Ford Focus which was nippy enough and shifted when booting it, so the 1.4 should do a decent job.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

dew1911 said:


> Funny I was looking at the GTC when my mum was picking up her Corsa, the dealerships info said the combined economy was 7mpg :doublesho
> 
> I can't see why anyone would buy a Petrol this side of 300bhp these days, Diesels are just better cars.


Yeah, because a diesel exige, radical, ariel atom would be so much better 

Diesels aren't better, short of 5 pots upwards, they're rattly, dull, have no rev range and have dpfs, take longer to warm up, are heavier. They're great for mpg though, if that's what you're buying a car for.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

dew1911 said:


> Funny, I've had nothing but Diesel's since I was 17 (5 cars now) and only ever had 1 DMF fail, and no other of these problems you seem to think all diesel's have...
> 
> As for the limited rev range, I'd rarther have the power there at 1500 revs, then nothing till you get to 7k.


You don't drive at idling speed everywhere, besides, bigger engines have plenty of power from idle.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Gruffs said:


> Diesels are for lazy people? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> The word you are looking for is efficient.
> 
> ...


I'm a masochist then  Efficient does not a fun car maketh


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

SteveTDCi said:


> DMFs that fail, turbos that go pop


DMFs come on petrols too,and also turbos fail on petrols too.
I like my diesel.I like the 340 nm of torque


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

PugIain said:


> DMFs come on petrols too,and also turbos fail on petrols too.


Not as often as on diesels


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

SteveTDCi said:


> Not as often as on diesels


Only when women drive them.


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## Gruffs (Dec 10, 2007)

RisingPower said:


> I'm a masochist then  Efficient does not a fun car maketh


We know you're a masochist.

Besides 6+ cylinders is a way of achieving torque. Much like diesel .

If you need to move a load of bricks, you can do it one at a time really fast or 10 at a time 10 times slower if you have the ability to carry 10 bricks rather than 1.

Same result, different delivery.

I'm a 10 at a time man. :lol:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Gruffs said:


> We know you're a masochist.
> 
> Besides 6+ cylinders is a way of achieving torque. Much like diesel .
> 
> ...


Torque, power, you name it 

I'm a keep delivering all the time kinda guy, don't want to wait between those large deliveries, that's boring


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## Grizzle (Jul 12, 2006)

Depends if you csn drive or not....i heard your terrible on a track lol.,


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## T.D.K (Mar 16, 2011)

roscopervis said:


> Petrol's LIKE to rev, Diesel's DON'T! For a car related forum user I seriously wonder what you were thinking about when buying the car, quite probably before a test drive!
> 
> "Listen, and understand. That car is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." It is a machine!
> 
> It doesn't feel pain, and was designed to rev to the red line. In fact, it is required every now and again to keep it health. Sell it now or swap it if you cant bring yourself to give it some beans. I personally wouldn't buy a car off you, it's probably clogged to hell!


The test drive wasn't great, terrible weather and busy roads, I liked the car and assumed the engine would be fine for my needs. Which it is really, I'm just chronically lazy.


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## anthonyh90 (Mar 30, 2011)

lol, you just need to learn to kick its teeth in once in a while in order to fully get the best from the engine. petrol's need to and like to be revved:thumb:


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Grizzle said:


> Depends if you csn drive or not....i heard your terrible on a track lol.,


Not as slow as you old man


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