# Living With The Leaf!



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Thought I'd make a mini blog (ish) of every significant/long trip about living with an electric car. Got plenty of Q's/pm's so seems more efficient to put it in a thread.

*Camping In The Leaf! 4 days in the Lake District*

Well it is possible! The boot is similar in size to a focus/golf type car, although deep there is an oddish shape which isn't nice and oblong for packing. Also seats don't fold flat so there's a lip due to the deepness of the boot (no petrol tank see!).

3 people, 1 tent and everything that goes with it!



















Car's ready to roll! 66 miles to Grizedale Forest!










Unpacking! Standard fare here!

On a campsite it's uber quiet. To the point where at night I drove past some people sat outside there tent and they didn't notice me until I came into visual contact!










We'd pre-arranged with the owner/farmer of the campsite that we could plug in so the night we got there we used the standard 3 pin plug lead to charge from his barn next to some lambs! As this is the slowest trickle charge and we had 26miles left (I think) we left it overnight. He didn't charge for this which was nice.

It sends me an email when it's done!










This was the display just before we got back (stopped off at supermarket near home). Notice the 5 full EcoTrees for super eco driving! 

In summary:
172 miles in total (there/back and around lakes).
Plugged in twice at site.

Est cost of travel in other car (at 50mpg): £19.55
Est cost of travel in Leaf (inc initial charge): £1.45


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I managed 2 trees from Leicester to Peterborough yesterday, the wife took it to work today and managed to reduce the range by 24 miles on a 14 mile trip ..... 

I do find the interior very plasticy though and I'm not sure on the limited steering wheel adjustment.


----------



## Crafoo (Oct 27, 2013)

My main issue with these cars is that they are not able to cope with the unexpected trips you have to make.

Planned out trips like this are all well and good, but it does take a level of planning over and above what we are used to as motorists.

This kind of car really falls on it's backside when you need to make an emergency trip out to pick up a friend, or get to work at a moments notice for instance. There's just far too much inconvenience that goes with owning a car like this.

It's a step in the right direction but I certainly don't see it being the answer to the petrol/diesel engine.

Nice to see someone take the time out to do a write up though


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Leave it in Eco mode for the wife!

You can move the seat up and down but yes steering wheel doesn't move. 

Guessometer is as accurate as MPG Range calcs on cars. I go off the actual charge (30% etc) and should pretty much know how far is left.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Crafoo said:


> My main issue with these cars is that they are not able to cope with the unexpected trips you have to make.
> 
> Planned out trips like this are all well and good, but it does take a level of planning over and above what we are used to as motorists.
> 
> ...


That's what our other car is for.

As a second/commute car they're perfect.


----------



## empsburna (Apr 5, 2006)

Crafoo said:


> My main issue with these cars is that they are not able to cope with the unexpected trips you have to make.
> 
> Planned out trips like this are all well and good, but it does take a level of planning over and above what we are used to as motorists.
> 
> ...


For the money I could save I could just have a taxi if I needed to go anywhere in an emergency.


----------



## Crafoo (Oct 27, 2013)

empsburna said:


> For the money I could save I could just have a taxi if I needed to go anywhere in an emergency.


I'm not sure taxi and emergency could really be used in the same sentence


----------



## Crafoo (Oct 27, 2013)

ardandy said:


> That's what our other car is for.
> 
> As a second/commute car they're perfect.


As a second car yes I can certainly see the benefits.

Are they not expensive to purchase initially though?


----------



## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

ardandy said:


> In summary:
> 172 miles in total (there/back and around lakes).
> Plugged in twice at site.
> 
> ...


That would cost me £65...kind of looks wasteful!

It's an interesting proposition as a second car.......the more I think about it the more it appeals!


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Crafoo said:


> As a second car yes I can certainly see the benefits.
> 
> Are they not expensive to purchase initially though?


£500 deposit and £205pm for 2 years.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Bero said:


> That would cost me £65...kind of looks wasteful!
> 
> It's an interesting proposition as a second car.......the more I think about it the more it appeals!


£65 for 172miles! :doublesho

What in????


----------



## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

something with 6.2L engine I guess....

Leaf looks great in that colour.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

£0 deposit and £183 for 2 years is what i've been quoted, if you have the rapid charger then you could charge to 80% in 30 minutes (I'm sure Andy could confirm this) but if it's in an emergency what are you thinking, a 200 mile dash ? You could jump on a train ... Or let's say it's a 10 minute drive and your petrol engined car has no fuel and you run out on the way to the petrol station. Yes you could say I never let it get below half a tank but the same could apply to the electric charge


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

SteveTDCi said:


> £0 deposit and £183 for 2 years is what i've been quoted, if you have the rapid charger then you could charge to 80% in 30 minutes (I'm sure Andy could confirm this) but if it's in an emergency what are you thinking, a 200 mile dash ? You could jump on a train ... Or let's say it's a 10 minute drive and your petrol engined car has no fuel and you run out on the way to the petrol station. Yes you could say I never let it get below half a tank but the same could apply to the electric charge


I'm guessing you've asked for the Visia+ without the 6.6kw?

Rapid charger works on all Leafs.


----------



## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

I think people need to look at how they've used a car in the last say 3 years and see how many Emergency Situations they have been in. Probably very very few.

At 200 quid a month these are almost a no brainer for many many people doing 10K a year with a Commute of 50 miles (return). 

Even leasing say a bog standard Golf would be 140 minimum + Petrol/Diesel


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

My home charger tells me exactly how many kwh it uses for the car so I should have an accurate figure in a month.


----------



## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

ardandy said:


> £65 for 172miles! :doublesho
> 
> What in????


A C63 :thumb:

Just rough numbers based on 15mpg (I actually average under that) and super unleaded.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

My quote was for the acenta with 3.3 on 7500


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

SteveTDCi said:


> My quote was for the acenta with 3.3 on 7500


Sounds about right as its a £1000 option.


----------



## Crafoo (Oct 27, 2013)

Battery cars clearly suit for some people, but for me personally it's not really an option.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Well went in the garage to go to work this morning only to find the missus had forgot to plug the chuffing car in after finishing work last night!

I guess it doesn't matter how fool proof you make things!


----------



## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Shame you can't set the app to set an alarm or something if say it isn't on charge at a set time you specify.


----------



## Crafoo (Oct 27, 2013)

ardandy said:


> Well went in the garage to go to work this morning only to find the missus had forgot to plug the chuffing car in after finishing work last night!
> 
> I guess it doesn't matter how fool proof you make things!


That's exactly the kind of thing that makes it too much of an issue for serious day to day use, if it was out of petrol then it's a 3 minute fuel stop.

Certainly has its upsides but the length of time it takes to "refuel" is just a killer.


----------



## Harry_p (Mar 18, 2015)

I'd quite like one, the figures would certainly stack up, it would actually save me money over what I'm spending a month on the monthly payments + electricity for the commute. Save money and drive a new car every day!

however, I don't think they're quick enough yet for the sort of journeys I do, and I'm not sure why they all need to look so odd.

Something like one of the current rear engined twingos with the running gear from a Zoe for about £150 a month would do...


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Crafoo said:


> That's exactly the kind of thing that makes it too much of an issue for serious day to day use, if it was out of petrol then it's a 3 minute fuel stop.
> 
> Certainly has its upsides but the length of time it takes to "refuel" is just a killer.


Not if you were completely out of fuel and the petrol station was shut. At least you could charge the leaf at home.


----------



## Crafoo (Oct 27, 2013)

SteveTDCi said:


> Not if you were completely out of fuel and the petrol station was shut. At least you could charge the leaf at home.


I think a walk to the nearest open petrol station (in that unlikely event) would still work out quicker


----------



## Hotchy (Jul 22, 2010)

30min rapid charge to 80% sounds good to me. I always got told it takes hours and hours to charge. I'm interested, would need to work out the fuel savings though. They should come with a solar roof to help extend the charge while driving on a sunny day. (Maybe they do, never researched them)


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Hotchy said:


> 30min rapid charge to 80% sounds good to me. I always got told it takes hours and hours to charge. I'm interested, would need to work out the fuel savings though. They should come with a solar roof to help extend the charge while driving on a sunny day. (Maybe they do, never researched them)


Solar panel just charges the 12v battery.



Crafoo said:


> That's exactly the kind of thing that makes it too much of an issue for serious day to day use, if it was out of petrol then it's a 3 minute fuel stop.
> 
> Certainly has its upsides but the length of time it takes to "refuel" is just a killer.


Not really. Car had 40 miles on it. Went to first site, then stopped off for 15 mins at Nissan dealer for a quick boost and carried on.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Harry_p said:


> however, I don't think they're quick enough yet for the sort of journeys I do, and I'm not sure why they all need to look so odd.


They're a lot quicker than you think. Full torque at 0 revs, no gear changes.

Best way to find it is to test.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I left our demo in Eco mode, the wife was not happy. We probably won't go down the route of a leaf after the test drive, I loved it and had no issue with the range. The wife however would cover 28 miles and use 50 miles of its range. 

You have to change your driving habits to get the best from an electric car, if you don't then the rNge an become an issue.


----------



## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

SteveTDCi said:


> Not if you were completely out of fuel and the petrol station was shut. At least you could charge the leaf at home.





ardandy said:


> Not really. Car had 40 miles on it. Went to first site, then stopped off for 15 mins at Nissan dealer for a quick boost and carried on.


How many times have you run out of fuel an your drive? Where do you live that no petrol stations are open with an 33 mile radius (assuming a car with a 60litre tank that does 50mpg and has 3 litres of fuel remaining, or the equivalent of 5% 'charge' of diesel left)?

Which ever way you cut it it IS a compromise currently. You had to stop at a Nissan dealer, not one of the many hundreds of petrol stations, that the charger is not being used and it's not located parked behind 10 cars...and if ONE charging unit is out of action you might struggle. If one petrol pump, or a whole station is out of action there is no real issue.

For some people it works....for some it wont, but it's definitely a compromise. However, it does make an interesting proposition as a second car. An EV car can probably do 90-95% of most peoples journeys with an ICE to fill the gaps....and short of a Tesla, have fun in.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Before we drag andys thread to far off a topic, the same could be said for electric cars, there are quite a few chargers around, certainly more than you would expect and in remote locations where you won't find a petrol station. Yes most of the Chargers outside of Nissan dealers and service stations are the slower charging type but you can still charge and at any hour, the same cannot be said for all petrol stations. You can check the status in advance, something else you cannot do with a petrol station.

In theory the leaf should have worked for us, however given how the wife drives - which might explain the 23mpg the Saab is currently averaging in winter time it would be touch and go. However I managed from Stamford to Loughborough to Leicester in the leaf and still had just enough range to get me home should I have chosen too and it was not being returned. You really have to change your driving style, they will do 80 but really you need to aim for 60mph. From my full charges the estimated ranges I saw were 86,89,79,81. If they could give the leaf a genuine range of 150 miles with little effect in the winter then it really would be a great every day car suiting pretty much everyone. However the next problem would be if everyone opted for the electric car then the charging infrastructure as it is at present would not cope.


----------



## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Bero said:


> How many times have you run out of fuel an your drive? Where do you live that no petrol stations are open with an 33 mile radius (assuming a car with a 60litre tank that does 50mpg and has 3 litres of fuel remaining, or the equivalent of 5% 'charge' of diesel left)?


Speak to my Mrs...One day she woke up and said I'm taking your car to work mine has no fuel in it. I thought she meant she had a little but didn't have time to get any before work...oh NO...she'd coasted onto the drive with 0 fuel left, car wouldn't even start and I had to get a lift to the petrol station :devil:

Why would you do this? your guess is as good as mine but she said she didn't have time....


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Mine is a 2nd car (well the Fiesta is) so works perfectly. As an only car, not at all.

Another example where it benefits:

York:
£16 per day to park (roughly) in any car.
£3.40 per day in EV (inc charging it up for free)

I'm off to central Manchester in a couple of weeks. 80 miles round trip and we'll be parking (multiple cars) in NCP car park nr centre. Parking is same but I get a free charge! (8 bays). Mancs seems to have a load though.

Also nice when you get paid mileage from work!


----------



## Guitarjon (Jul 13, 2012)

I'd love an electric car for my wife. She currently has a top spec ecoboost fiesta and pays around £280 a month for it. I have a proper car (bmw e61) which owes me nothing. If rather keep that one for blog journeys. 

However, a couple of issues mainly being that I live in terraced houses and I'm not sure the law would allow me to trial a wire across the pavement. 

They do work out a fair bit cheaper than what she's currently paying.

My friend has just bought a Zoe for his wife. He bought theirs outright. It was an ex demo car so got a good chunk off. Cost just over 9k. I'm detailing it over the weekend. I drove it last week to experience my first electric car. All I can say is that they are the way forward. Only issue being battery life but they are a bit like modern day mobiles. Something you use every day you generally charge daily. The only thing that's put me off it is the plastic inside and general flimsiness. I think this could be more down to Renault than it being electric though.


----------



## Crafoo (Oct 27, 2013)

robertdon777 said:


> Speak to my Mrs...One day she woke up and said I'm taking your car to work mine has no fuel in it. I thought she meant she had a little but didn't have time to get any before work...oh NO...she'd coasted onto the drive with 0 fuel left, car wouldn't even start and I had to get a lift to the petrol station
> 
> Why would you do this? your guess is as good as mine but she said she didn't have time....


I'd have told her it's her own fault and to sort something out.


----------



## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

Crafoo said:


> I'd have told her it's her own fault and to sort something out.


I did on the phone...too late then though I needed a car....she loves doing this type of thing, she thinks they run on air


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Trying to plan a journey to my parents house which is about 245miles from me.

Cowling, N Yorks to Clacton-On-Sea.

We have another ICE car to use but as mainly a challenge if I'm honest I'd like to do it at least once. It would normally take us around 5 hours without stopping. Predominantly down the A1. This is my route with a plan B for each stop just in case one is faulty etc. I could prob miss out a stop or two if I could guarantee a point was operable when I got there but not sure if I dare or not!

Start - Home 

43miles 

Ferrybridge Moto M62 Motorway Juntion 33 - Ecotricity
Plan B - Blyth Services - S81 8HG - Ecotricity - +25 Miles 

25miles 

Blyth Services - S81 8HG - Ecotricity
Plan B - Grantham Services - NG32 2AB - Ecotricity - +38miles 

38miles 

Grantham Services - NG32 2AB - Ecotricity
Plan B - Extra Services Peterboro - PE7 3UQ - Ecotricity - +45miles
Plan C - Crystal Nissan – Dysart Road, Grantham, NG31 7DD - +5miles (SLOW CHARGE) 

36miles 

Extra Services Peterboro - PE7 3UQ - Ecotricity
Plan B - Cambridge Extra Services - CB23 4WU - Ecotricity - +24miles 

28miles 

Cambridge Extra Services - CB23 4WU - Ecotricity
Plan B - Marshall Nissan, 699 Newmarket Road, Cambridge, CB5 8SQ - +8miles 

68miles 

Glyn Hopkin Nissan Colchester - CO1 2GN - Nissan
Plan B - United Way, Colchester Football Club, CO4 5UP - +2miles (£5 Charge) 

15miles 

Destination - CO16


----------



## Puntoboy (Jun 30, 2007)

Electric cars to intrigue me, well when I say cars, I'm really talking about the Tesla Model S. By far the best looking electric car out there plus the range is phenomenal. 

The only thing that stops me is the noise. I'm a petrol head and I want some proper noise from a car. None of this fake through the speakers rubbish either, proper burbling V8 noise. I'm on my last diesel car now and I will be going petrol next and it'll hopefully be a V8.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

I just do the noises in the car myself!

Trouble is with no gears you get out of breath quite easily!


----------



## cossiecol (Jun 29, 2014)

Puntoboy said:


> Electric cars to intrigue me, well when I say cars, I'm really talking about the Tesla Model S. By far the best looking electric car out there plus the range is phenomenal.
> 
> The only thing that stops me is the noise. I'm a petrol head and I want some proper noise from a car. None of this fake through the speakers rubbish either, proper burbling V8 noise. I'm on my last diesel car now and I will be going petrol next and it'll hopefully be a V8.


i know what you mean, I looked at the Tesla (as i'm sure everyone has) still expensive at £660 per month through the business.

When looking for the Focus RS on the Ford website I stupidly took a look at the 5.0 V8 mustang :doublesho lovely car, then I looked a bit deeper £1k road tax and a "stated" 20mpg lol thinking I'll just go for a petrol vRS next.


----------



## Puntoboy (Jun 30, 2007)

cossiecol said:


> i know what you mean, I looked at the Tesla (as i'm sure everyone has) still expensive at £660 per month through the business.
> 
> When looking for the Focus RS on the Ford website I stupidly took a look at the 5.0 V8 mustang :doublesho lovely car, then I looked a bit deeper £1k road tax and a "stated" 20mpg lol thinking I'll just go for a petrol vRS next.


£660 is less than I'm paying for my XF and the Tesla has very similar styling and should cost less to run. I only get 33mpg average from my XF but anything over 20mpg is fine with me. Hence why I'm looking at a V8 next. The Mustang is on my radar as well.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Keep the XF and get an atom next!


----------



## Puntoboy (Jun 30, 2007)

ardandy said:


> Keep the XF and get an atom next!


I want to change it in another 12-18 months.


----------



## pantypoos (Aug 7, 2014)

robertdon777 said:


> Shame you can't set the app to set an alarm or something if say it isn't on charge at a set time you specify.


You can, it can be set up to email you if you are in a certain location and you haven't plugged it in by a certain time.

I'm really pleased to see more people on here getting leafs, they really are great cars.


----------



## robertdon777 (Nov 3, 2005)

pantypoos said:


> You can, it can be set up to email you if you are in a certain location and you haven't plugged it in by a certain time.
> 
> I'm really pleased to see more people on here getting leafs, they really are great cars.


They have thought of everything then...good bit of tech


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Mine emails me when it's finished charging. Can also check on your phone to see what charge it has and to turn AC on etc.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Blyth was working when I stopped the other day but I have never seen a car in it, Peterborough I've only ever seen a Renault Zoe in it, there is also smiths Nissan in Breton if you get stuck, although it's probably a 16 mile round trip from extra services.


----------



## Lugy (Nov 4, 2009)

I keep on wondering about the feasibility of an electric car, my main problem is that I only have on street parking outside my flat and no doubt the charging cable would be tampered with. That said I could charge it at work for free! The having to plan journeys doesn't appeal either, next week I'm making the ~400mile trip to Northampton and I'd rather just jump in my car and drive than worry about battery level and stopping for about 45 mins every 100 miles or so. Yes, you can have another car for longer journeys but surely the cost of this would override any savings from your electric car!
I also wonder how long free charging will last before it's unsustainable.

Electric cars are the future, I'm in no doubt about that any niggles will soon be ironed out. Only 10 years or so I was playing Snake II on a Nokia phone, now I'm writing this on a touch screen phone, connected by witchcraft to the internets and I don't even need to connect a plug to charge it! The same will happen with EVs.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Well, the first 500 miles have been done and this is the reading from my home charger (which records how much you've used to charge the car).

Based on my electric tariff that's a cost of £11.83.

About 400miles of that is home charging.


----------



## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

robertdon777 said:


> Speak to my Mrs...One day she woke up and said I'm taking your car to work mine has no fuel in it. I thought she meant she had a little but didn't have time to get any before work...oh NO...she'd coasted onto the drive with 0 fuel left, car wouldn't even start and I had to get a lift to the petrol station :devil:
> 
> Why would you do this? your guess is as good as mine but she said she didn't have time....


I would have a serious falling out over that, completely ridiculous!



ardandy said:


> Trying to plan a journey to my parents house which is about 245miles from me.
> 
> Cowling, N Yorks to Clacton-On-Sea.
> 
> ...


I see you like the challenge, but planning to stop every 20-70 miles would be my worst nightmare, I like to get on the road and not stop, never mind waiting for it to charge.

A few people have commented that it's not really any worse than petrol cars.....never in my life have I needed to look up petrol station locations, and plan my journey around them.


----------



## SBM (Jul 4, 2013)

We get our 4 day test drive Leaf this weekend.

The thing to bear in mind and to save Ardandy repeating himself, We all know the range limitations and the options, changes to driving habits the Leaf (and any all electric car) presents.

These are much more manageable when it is a 2nd, or in our case, 3rd car.

The above is a challenge/test/experience Ardandy has chosen to do just to see and report how it pans out.

If it was going to be our only car - I would not consider it.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

Ah but sometimes we do plan petrol stations I had to when in Majorca to make sure the hire car went back full and I'm now off to Chelmsford to see a z4 and the first thing I will do is research fuel. Ok it's different in terms of the reasoning but although I like electric cars for me in that situation I would just hire a diesel. There are a surprising number of charging points about, many more than petrol stations in rural areas, however while they are there they are slow charging ones.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Bero said:


> I would have a serious falling out over that, completely ridiculous!
> 
> I see you like the challenge, but planning to stop every 20-70 miles would be my worst nightmare, I like to get on the road and not stop, never mind waiting for it to charge.
> 
> A few people have commented that it's not really any worse than petrol cars.....never in my life have I needed to look up petrol station locations, and plan my journey around them.


Me too normally but look at it this way.

That round trip in the Leaf would save me circa £90. It will probably take 2 hours longer (4 hours total). That's like earning £22.50 per hour (tax free).

Or it's paying for the weekend (visiting parents).

Could be a pain, but do that twice a month and it's almost saved me the cost of the Leaf for that month!


----------



## pantypoos (Aug 7, 2014)

Have you done the journey yet? 

If so how did you get on? I've not tried a multi-charge journey yet, so it would be interesting to see what you thought about the extra time taken.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Not yet. Be a few weeks before we're going down there. 

Tbh I fancy doing it myself just because! Don't want to use my days off just for that though. 

Plus ecotricity are just finishing upgrades to the charge points so reliability should be a lot better.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Well, it's on this Sat-Sun!

Different journey but nearly 200 miles in a day twice. So 400 miles in a weekend!

1st leg is 62 miles.
2nd leg is 58 miles.
3rd leg is 30 miles
4th leg is 49 miles.

Then same again next day.

Home

39miles

Charnock Richard Services M6 J26-27 South PR7 5LR - Ecotricity (CURRENTLY OFFLINE)
Plan B - Cliff Lane Services, Lymm WA13 0SP - Ecotricity - +7 Miles
Plan C - Nissan Warrington WA2 7PE - Nissan - +6 Miles (SLOW)

23miles

Cliff Lane Services, Lymm WA13 0SP - Ecotricity
Plan B - Knutsford M6 South Services - WA16 0TL - Ecotricity - +20miles

44miles

Welcome Break Keele M6 South ST5 5HG - Ecotricity 
Plan B - Nissan Stoke-On-Trent ST1 6AL - Nissan - +8 Miles

14miles

Mucklestone (Destination, Drop Wife/Kid off - No Charge Here)

39miles

Cliff Lane Services, Lymm WA13 0SP - Ecotricity
Plan B - Nissan Warrington WA2 7PE - Nissan - +6 Miles (SLOW)

49miles

Nissan Burnley, Burnley BB11 1RY - Nissan
Plan B - Home - +12 miles

12miles

Home


----------



## pantypoos (Aug 7, 2014)

Good luck and have fun.

I don't know if you are aware but some of the Nissan dealer's charge points are only available during opening hours, so worth checking to see if Burnley coincides with your timetable, although i don't think you'll need it if you get a 100% charge at Cliff Ln on the way home.

I've noticed recently that the ecotricity chargers now stop after 30 mins charging even if they haven't reached the charge you selected. I was at Watford Gap last week and arrived with 10%, I selected a 100% charge but it stopped after 30mins at 95%.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Edited again. Keele North is offline so stopping on the way down.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

pantypoos said:


> Good luck and have fun.
> 
> I don't know if you are aware but some of the Nissan dealer's charge points are only available during opening hours, so worth checking to see if Burnley coincides with your timetable, although i don't think you'll need it if you get a 100% charge at Cliff Ln on the way home.
> 
> I've noticed recently that the ecotricity chargers now stop after 30 mins charging even if they haven't reached the charge you selected. I was at Watford Gap last week and arrived with 10%, I selected a 100% charge but it stopped after 30mins at 95%.


Only using Burnley so I don't have to pay for 70% of the charge when I get home! 

Sandbach is getting some chargers now, it's on Ecotricity's site as coming soon.


----------



## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

SteveTDCi said:


> Ah but sometimes we do plan petrol stations I had to when in Majorca to make sure the hire car went back full and I'm now off to Chelmsford to see a z4 and the first thing I will do is research fuel. Ok it's different in terms of the reasoning but although I like electric cars for me in that situation I would just hire a diesel. *There are a surprising number of charging points about, many more than petrol stations in rural areas,* however while they are there they are slow charging ones.


Really? I'm surprised at that, even if the comparison is charging points to petrol stations (as opposed to petrol pumps), any examples? or maps showing this? I'm sure there are way more than I think, but as I don't look for them I don't realise how many there are.



ardandy said:


> Me too normally but look at it this way.
> 
> That round trip in the Leaf would save me circa £90. It will probably take 2 hours longer (4 hours total). That's like earning £22.50 per hour (tax free).
> 
> ...


I never said it was a bad idea or didn't save money, just that's still a bit of a compromise :thumb: In interesting analogy of cost saving. :lol:


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

https://www.zap-map.com/live

This shows all the charge points in the country. Some hotels etc are missing I guess.

Don't forget that as you can use a 3pin plug to charge (takes a lot longer) then you could say every home and business is a charge station (with begging and pleading).


----------



## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

ardandy said:


> https://www.zap-map.com/live
> 
> This shows all the charge points in the country. Some hotels etc are missing I guess.
> 
> Don't forget that as you can use a 3pin plug to charge (takes a lot longer) then you could say every home and business is a charge station* (with begging and pleading)*.


I had not though of that......if things get really tight you could scrounge some electric through a 13A plug. :thumb:

The other thing that concerns me is how the rules will change when these cars become more common.

In 2016 3/4 of cars were going to be zero rated VED (Car Tax).......so the Govt just change the rules to maintain revenue.

There has been a lot of cost, and subsidy for these cars, and the charging infrastructure, I winder how long the free charging etc will last.

At least with the new VED the govt have essentially admitted it has NOTHING to do with emissions....but that's another discussion.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

The next Leaf coming out in 2017 is meant to have a realistic range of at least 150miles and be cheaper than the current one. When they started they made a loss but last year Nissan actually make money form selling Leaf's now. Things are cheaper so the £5000 government grant (like solar FIT tariffs) is becoming less relevant. 

Everyone has a full EV car now so huge competition compared to 3-4 years ago.

Just a few of the 'normal' EV cars out now/this year.

Ford e-Focus
BMW I3
VW e-UP
VW e-Golf
Nissan Leaf
Renault Zoe
Tesla Model S/X
Tesla Model 3 coming 2017 (equiv to Leaf)
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
Citroen C-Zero
Kia Soul EV


----------



## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

The Outlander is a Hybrid, not an EV.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

It's a PHEV!

Plug-in Hybird Electric Vehicle.

You can do around 30 miles on just electric and as you can plug it in to charge (so not like a Prius) it is considered a EV. In fact they're selling loads!


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Bero said:


> The Outlander is a Hybrid, not an EV.


You know you can get a Tesla for around £700pm lease! Prob within your work budget?

:car:


----------



## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

ardandy said:


> It's a PHEV!
> 
> Plug-in Hybird Electric Vehicle.
> 
> You can do around 30 miles on just electric and as you can plug it in to charge (so not like a Prius) it is considered a EV. In fact they're selling loads!


They did make a Plug in Prius...no idea how many they sold though.



ardandy said:


> You know you can get a Tesla for around £700pm lease! Prob within your work budget?
> 
> :car:


I don't lease / finance cars :thumb:

Teslas are NICE, I've had a lift in one in Norway, it will be interesting to see the price / performance of them from the 3rd generation onwards once there is more competition and presumably prices will start to come down.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

From Kryten:

The Tesla is an amazing, high performance, high spec luxury car that can only realistically be compared to high end BMWs, Audis, Jaguars and Mercedes. It’s much cheaper to fuel than any of those listed, but in the world of electric cars it’s an electron guzzler.

300 miles would use 84 kilowatt hours minimum, of you drove carefully.

300 miles in a Leaf would use around 55 kilowatt hours. It’s a fair claim that the Leaf costs just over 1p per mile to drive if you charge overnight on off-peak or night tariff electricity at 5.1p per kWh.

This would mean that 50,000 miles in a Nissan Leaf would cost somewhere around £600.

50,000 miles in a Model S would cost around £1,500

50,000 miles in a hyper efficient 65mpg diesel would cost £4,300 in fuel.

50,000 miles in an Audio A8, Mercedes S class, BMW 7 series (same purchase price as Tesla) would cost over £15,500. That’s funny that is.

However, I would not claim £600 spent on electricity to power the Leaf, I have charged the car during the day on quite a few occasions. In the summer that costs me nothing because I take the power from solar panels, but in the winter I’m paying 20p per kWh.

I use public chargers that are currently free so I’ve saved there, but I would say a realistic total fuel cost for 50,000 Leaf miles is close to £900.

That is still £3,200 cheaper than the most efficient, super lightweight fossil burner, so for me, the Leaf is made of pure win.

But here’s a bit of madness, you could, and there are people in the USA who’ve done this, you could exclusively use Tesla’s free Superchargers for every mile, you could drive 50,000 for nothing. Nada. Not a penny.


----------



## Starbuck88 (Nov 12, 2013)

This is a bit off the cost saving topic...but...

Have you looked into EMF levels in electric cars and how safe they are in that sense?

I haven't but that's the only thing that would concern me really. A bit oddball I know but still.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

It's only a 23kw battery.

Your phone constantly next to your testicles is probably a bigger concern!

http://www.alternet.org/study-no-danger-emfs-electric-cars


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

@ Bero, I was surprised at the amount of charging points, however given the amount you still worry about recharging (I thought you mentioned this earlier ?) yes you still have range axity in an electric car even though I reality it's no different to a petrol car, you are just as likely to take chances with a petrol car and hope for the best, really running out of electric is just the same but you become more aware of it. However Renault will send someone out to recover you but it wouldn't happen if you drove a Clio.

Electric cars will never become cheap, at the moment they are because of the pcp's which are being subsidised by manufacturers and the government. What you stop using in co2 in a petrol car you end up using in producing the electric to power it. I think they will effectively just replace a simiar 1.6 diesel

The charging infrastructure is not able to cope, at the minute there are2-4 spaces in mist places and 150 normal spaces .... If people start to adopt electric cars in the masses as a country we won't cope.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

SteveTDCi said:


> @ Bero, I was surprised at the amount of charging points, however given the amount you still worry about recharging (I thought you mentioned this earlier ?) yes you still have range axity in an electric car even though I reality it's no different to a petrol car, you are just as likely to take chances with a petrol car and hope for the best, really running out of electric is just the same but you become more aware of it. However Renault will send someone out to recover you but it wouldn't happen if you drove a Clio.
> 
> Electric cars will never become cheap, at the moment they are because of the pcp's which are being subsidised by manufacturers and the government. What you stop using in co2 in a petrol car you end up using in producing the electric to power it. I think they will effectively just replace a simiar 1.6 diesel
> 
> The charging infrastructure is not able to cope, at the minute there are2-4 spaces in mist places and 150 normal spaces .... If people start to adopt electric cars in the masses as a country we won't cope.


Solar panels would help that or switch to a eco energy supplier (like ecotricity) if you worry about co2 etc.

It's chicken and egg sort of thing. More points, the more people will buy one. However more points won't go in until more people own one.

At the moment however, there are twice as many points in the uk as there are electric cars!


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Think I might do a vlog for this journey over the weekend. Stick it on youtube sort of thing.


----------



## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

SteveTDCi said:


> @ Bero, I was surprised at the amount of charging points, however given the amount you still worry about recharging (I thought you mentioned this earlier ?) yes you still have range axity in an electric car even though I reality it's no different to a petrol car, you are just as likely to take chances with a petrol car and hope for the best, really running out of electric is just the same but you become more aware of it. However Renault will send someone out to recover you but it wouldn't happen if you drove a Clio.
> 
> *Electric cars will never become cheap, at the moment they are because of the pcp's which are being subsidised by manufacturers and the government. What you stop using in co2 in a petrol car you end up using in producing the electric to power it.* I think they will effectively just replace a simiar 1.6 diesel
> 
> The charging infrastructure is not able to cope, at the minute there are2-4 spaces in mist places and 150 normal spaces .... If people start to adopt electric cars in the masses as a country we won't cope.


A lot of good points, thanks.

For the *bold* part: producing electricity will always be WAY more economical in a centralised place, IIRC ICE are about 40% efficient, where as power plants are well into the 90%. Much easier to handle, much easier to insulate, easier to reclaim heat from exhaust gasses, and if you choose to capture the CO2 its much simpler than cars running with big bags catching exhaust gasses.

But yes, you're just moving the location that the CO2 is produced, although it may be beneficial to to health. With EV CO2 is being exhausted up big chimneys in remote locations rather than CO2 and particulates 3ft from every pavement in the country and concentrated in high population density locations.


----------



## pantypoos (Aug 7, 2014)

Here is some data on the full carbon footprint of electric cars compared with fossil fuel burners.

The figures shown are "well to wheel" which take into account everything from mining and extraction to transportation to the refinery, power station and/or petrol station.

http://www.theelectriccarguide.net/green-electric-cars.aspx


----------



## NeilG40 (Jan 1, 2009)

ardandy said:


> £500 deposit and £205pm for 2 years.


Was the £500 deposit plus a trade in? I've been looking on the Nissan site and unless I'm reading it wrong the deposit looks to be around £3k to give £200pm.


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

The discounts are far greater when you approach a Nissan dealer. Try Nissan retail Leicester.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

NeilG40 said:


> Was the £500 deposit plus a trade in? I've been looking on the Nissan site and unless I'm reading it wrong the deposit looks to be around £3k to give £200pm.


No part ex.

Got them to match a carwow quote.

Ask for Annie at Leicester but go through carwow first.


----------



## NeilG40 (Jan 1, 2009)

I did actually do a quote from carwow and one of them is from Annie at Leicester but it mentions a 10% deposit.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Mine was near end of quarter so either they were trying to meet targets or the offers have finished.

Add it all up over 2 year and see how much it comes to.

Mine was £500 plus 24 x £205.


----------



## Puntoboy (Jun 30, 2007)

If it was that price I would be seriously considering one for my wife. But the same as mentioned can't see anything like that on their site.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Puntoboy said:


> If it was that price I would be seriously considering one for my wife. But the same as mentioned can't see anything like that on their site.


On carwow?

I could put you in touch with the dealer who matched my carwow price? He never saw the actual quote from them, just matched it.

Mines the acenta with 6.6kw option.


----------



## Puntoboy (Jun 30, 2007)

I was looking at the Nissan site  but cheers I'll take a look.


----------



## matt303 (Aug 11, 2012)

Great thread, after seeing the price of used Leafs I went and had a test drive in one today. Basically everything I expected from driving an EV, super easy to drive, great pick up out of junctions and gets up to 50/60 nicely (I normally drive a 1.4 diesel Fiesta and to match it would involve revving and black smoke).

I'm sort of torn what to do now, either pick up a 2012 model for around £8K and keep the Fiesta or go electric only and take advantage of the glut of pre-registered cars at around £15K. I'm not in a rush to change and with the 2016 model rumoured to have a bit more range before the totally new 2017 model maybe going for some sort of PCP deal might be the best way to future proof.

@ardandy Keep posting your experiences, I think I'll be test driving an i3 and an e-Golf in the near future.


----------



## NeilG40 (Jan 1, 2009)

Well I ordered a Leaf Tekna last week, should be here around mid September.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Shameless plug for my youtube channel!


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I don't see the point in buying when the pcp is so cheap.


----------



## matt303 (Aug 11, 2012)

SteveTDCi said:


> I don't see the point in buying when the pcp is so cheap.


I'm coming to the same conclusion, if I can get pcp on the pre-reg cars the local dealership has a good chunk of it will be covered by fuel savings and I get to keep the Fiesta for the occasional long trip. Will need to see how much adding a Leaf will push up the insurance as I'm the only driver in the household.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

PCP on new will be cheaper hence why they cant shift used. 

Also 0% on new.


----------



## matt303 (Aug 11, 2012)

I can see myself fanatically running numbers around my head for a while ahead, also complicated if the 2016 model moves to a 30kWh battery which makes it a little more practical if an only car.

Also need to test drive a Zoe, well at least this is keeping me busy


----------



## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

The Zoe will be closer to your fiesta, I actually prefer the Zoe as a second car.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

If there's one thing you can trust the French on its the electrics in a car!


Errr, hang on! They've made an electric car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Another epic run!

Got stuck on way back in this one!


----------



## shl-kelso (Dec 27, 2012)

Well I took a Leaf 4 day test drive and was both me and my wife were impressed enough to use Carwow and have ordered a Tekna for delivery in a couple of weeks! PCP were too good to ignore so it's goodbye to her battered Punto and hello to shiny new Leaf  For her use it will cost us around a nett £60/month after offsetting petrol, servicing, MOT, and road tax , so very pleased with our 2 year deal. The plan is to hand it back and take another similar deal while the technology is developing & maturing.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

New leaf comes out march 2017 with poss double range which is why they're pushing 2 year deals.


----------



## shl-kelso (Dec 27, 2012)

That's what I'd heard. The deals just now are amazing, it was 25% of the cost compared to the Kia Soul EV for example.


----------



## ardandy (Aug 18, 2006)

Worth knowing that paying excess mileage was cheaper for me than saying 10k or 15k a year.

I said 5k a year and pay 6p per mile excess. After 3 months I'll be at 5,000 miles already!


----------

