# Seat, VW, Skoda, Ford - or something else?



## Dan Gull (Jul 24, 2009)

You know that feeling when you simply can't decide what car to go with next?

I currently drive a Seat Leon FR+ 170 diesel which I've had from new - and it's been fine. Actually no, it's been good, but do I love the car? No. It was purchased at a time when I was doing huge mileage and so needed the oil burner economy. 

I'm impressed with Seat in general - service at the dealership has been excellent and I've actually become friends with the bloke who sold me the car. 

For a long time, I've been looking forward to getting a new, more exciting car as I no longer do the high mileage.

My shortlist was Seat Leon Cupra 280 (or Cupra ST if it appears), Ford Focus ST Wagon, BMW 135i, Golf R and Audi S3.

However - I've just got a new job, and it's a 70 mile round trip commute every day. My heart is yearning to stick with the same choices of car, but a quick run through the Parkers COM tools shows just how hard my wallet would be battered by buying something like this - we're talking an extra £2K on fuel alone over something like...

VW Golf GTD
Skoda Octavia VRS Diesel Estate
Seat Leon ST 184

(See a pattern here?)

We'll be starting a family within the time that this car will be with us - and as a musician I spend a lot of time hulking gear around, so an estate would be preferable. Budget is around £30-35K - I always lease my car. 

So firstly, am I making the right decision sticking with a diesel? (I know the answer to this I think...)

But secondly, am I neglecting anything out there? What are people's thoughts on the cars mentioned?


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

I think the dervs sound exactly like your current car. A fairly average diesel hatchback (excluding the skoda, which is only a bigger version).

I don't like the others either, I think they're a little run of the mill too.


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## Dan Gull (Jul 24, 2009)

What would you be looking at in my shoes RisingPower?

The three dervs listed are indeed similar to my current car - all slightly quicker (except for the Skoda) but will have some more extras as my current Leon is relatively poverty spec. They should be slightly more economical too.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Dan Gull said:


> What would you be looking at in my shoes RisingPower?
> 
> The three dervs listed are indeed similar to my current car - all slightly quicker (except for the Skoda) but will have some more extras as my current Leon is relatively poverty spec. They should be slightly more economical too.


Tbh, I wouldn't.

Unless of course for some reason your payments would be less.

I don't personally see the attraction of a moderately newer, completely similar car all for the sake of prolonging a finance agreement at higher rates.

Sitting on a motorway, doing 35 boring miles in a very similar car, paying more, seems crazy to me.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

Leon Cupra 280 would get my vote - I love the looks and it's got the record for a FWD car around the Nurburgring if you're interested


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## Dan Gull (Jul 24, 2009)

Point taken - I could always purchase the Leon at the end of the lease period.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

millns84 said:


> Leon Cupra 280 would get my vote - I love the looks and it's got the record for a FWD car around the Nurburgring if you're interested


That's because fwd sucks


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## Dan Gull (Jul 24, 2009)

millns - yes, having driven it it's a very interesting piece of kit. That Ring lap was using a performance pack that isn't available in the UK though...

It's the thought of spending an extra £2k on fuel for the sake of the few miles I don't spend on the motorway...


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Dan Gull said:


> Point taken - I could always purchase the Leon at the end of the lease period.


I mean maybe it may make more sense to continue leasing rather than buying the leon, but I'd do it based upon financial reasons only based upon the journey and the choices of car, like free servicing etc.


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## millns84 (Jul 5, 2009)

RisingPower said:


> That's because fwd sucks


The clever modern diffs have made it a lot more interesting, just no drifting fun :lol:



Dan Gull said:


> millns - yes, having driven it it's a very interesting piece of kit. That Ring lap was using a performance pack that isn't available in the UK though


Pretty sure that was just four pots and upgraded wheels/tyres - All of which is fairly easy if they don't want to market it as an option


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

millns84 said:


> The clever modern diffs have made it a lot more interesting, just no drifting fun :lol:
> 
> Pretty sure that was just four pots and upgraded wheels/tyres - All of which is fairly easy if they don't want to market it as an option


Drifting is the only interesting bit


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Tbh, new job, if you're getting paid more, i'd look at getting a car which was even cheaper to lease and save the rest for something interesting, not these boring samey euroboxes.


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## possul (Nov 14, 2008)

RisingPower said:


> Tbh, new job, if you're getting paid more, i'd look at getting a car which was even cheaper to lease and save the rest for something interesting.


Thats what id do
Im staying cheap and cheerful and getting a second car


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

Fellow Leon owner here. I have a 2010 1.4TSi sport. Love it!


If you have the cash saved up to put down on a new car, to make your monthly payments less than your currently paying, then upgrade.

I maybe throwing a curveball at you, but do you really need the Cupra 280 or similar 'performance' model from the ranges your looking at?

Id get another Leon...love the SC version, but appreciate you need an estate. The quality of the interior has come on from the Mk2. It's just a shame the exterior styling of the mk3 is more conservative than the mk2.

Ultimately, even if you keep the current car and pay that off your still losing money in the long term, so if you can afford it and make the figures stack up to your benefit, change it

if you go Audi or VW you're only paying a premium for the badge over the SEAT and SKODA alternative.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Andyg_TSi said:


> if you go Audi or VW you're only paying a premium for the badge over the SEAT and SKODA alternative.


i'm awaiting the influx of seat are crap, you *must* buy an audi or vw.


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

Golf R has to be 
quick re map and over 300 bhp


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## Dan Gull (Jul 24, 2009)

Fortunately, as a Seat owner, I'm unlikely to be swayed by that.

I actually really like the Leon ST - it looks smart, is practical, reasonably rapid, cheap to insure and 50+ to the gallon. It even doesn't sound particularly diesel-like.


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## Dan Gull (Jul 24, 2009)

alexharvey said:


> Golf R has to be
> quick re map and over 300 bhp


It's very nice - but it's a loooot of money to buy and load of money to run over many miles.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

alexharvey said:


> Golf R has to be
> quick re map and over 300 bhp


What makes it different to the 135i then? Apart from rwd, engine size?

Why does it have to be the golf?


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

RisingPower said:


> i'm awaiting the influx of seat are crap, you *must* buy an audi or vw.


Hahaha, same here

OK, the interiors in the Audi and VW maybe more 'premium'. However, for example, the 1.4TSi engine in the SEAT & SKODA is the Same engine in any 1.4TSi VW & AUDI alternative.

equipment levels are similar too its the same bluetooth handsfree VAG units/sat nav units etc.......its not going to be worse just because its in a car badged SEAT over a Car badged AUDI.

its just badge snobbery lol


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## chrisibiza (Aug 6, 2008)

Leon ST would get my vote. I had the lend of the 2.0TDI 150 FR and it was a lovely car, in fact I'm really close to buying the 1.4TSI petrol. (Don't do enough miles to justify the diesel).

Quick car, economical and fun to drive too.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jenny19 (Mar 18, 2014)

What about a 120d or 125d? Powerful and pretty economical


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Andyg_TSi said:


> Hahaha, same here
> 
> OK, the interiors in the Audi and VW maybe more 'premium'. However, for example, the 1.4TSi engine in the SEAT & SKODA is the Same engine in any 1.4TSi VW & AUDI alternative.
> 
> ...


They look the same inside to me.


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

Dan Gull said:


> It's very nice - but it's a loooot of money to buy and load of money to run over many miles.


there really nice tho i have a mk5 gti 2005 i would one day chop that in for an R

the R wont be that bad on fuel if you dont thrash it all the time and a quick re map revo or apr will give loads horses and same fuel economy when driving normally :driver:


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

There is also another alternative, who make nice estates, bit of a premium badge and are currently making some nice looking cars....

VOLVO


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Jenny19 said:


> What about a 120d or 125d? Powerful and pretty economical


So the reasoning to change from what he currently has would be....?


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Andyg_TSi said:


> There is also another alternative, who make nice estates, bit of a premium badge and are currently making some nice looking cars....
> 
> VOLVO


I hear mercedes also make estate cars


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## Dan Gull (Jul 24, 2009)

Jenny19 said:


> What about a 120d or 125d? Powerful and pretty economical


The 1 series was on the original list because it's a cracking platform and engine, but it's ugly as sin and not that practical compared to the Leon ST or Octavia VRS. I'd consider a 3 series touring, but I'm not sure it's that much better than the other two for the extra money.


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

ive been in all the audi vw skoda seat variants 
and i just feel that the VW and Audis are put together alot better and feel more sturdy and premium


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

reasons to change to Golf R

loads power even before map
4WD
Quaility
looks
Practical lol
Power!


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## Dan Gull (Jul 24, 2009)

Andyg_TSi said:


> There is also another alternative, who make nice estates, bit of a premium badge and are currently making some nice looking cars....
> 
> VOLVO


I should have included a D4 or D5 V60 on the original list. It's a bit different, frugal and brisk. It's quite a bit more money though if you spec it similarly to the Skoda or Seat.


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

RisingPower said:


> They look the same inside to me.


Its just the quality of the plastics used on the door cards/dash etc in the audi/vw ovdr the seat/skoda. Thats about it in some models


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Andyg_TSi said:


> Its just the quality of the plastics used on the door cards/dash etc in the audi/vw ovdr the seat/skoda. Thats about it in some models


Awesome, the only difference is in the plastics :lol:


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

Im sure its older tech in the seats n skoda compared to VW n Aldi


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

IE that seat exeo is 2 gen older Audi


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

alexharvey said:


> reasons to change to Golf R
> 
> loads power even before map
> 4WD
> ...


So why not the 135i? Apart from the 4wd, which really is pointless most of the time?


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## Dan Gull (Jul 24, 2009)

alexharvey said:


> reasons to change to Golf R
> 
> loads power even before map
> 4WD
> ...


Ok, I get all that - except...

It's not an estate. I don't need 4wd. I'll cover 25K motorway miles each year. I don't think the Golf looks anything special. It's a lot of money.


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

yeah 135i is a great car too
id have the golf R just my choice and R is quicker


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

Dan Gull said:


> Ok, I get all that - except...
> 
> It's not an estate. I don't need 4wd. I'll cover 25K motorway miles each year. I don't think the Golf looks anything special. It's a lot of money.


R will be fast on motorway!lol

get a diesel seat Exoe?


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Dan Gull said:


> However - I've just got a new job, and it's a 70 mile round trip commute every day. My heart is yearning to stick with the same choices of car, but a quick run through the Parkers COM tools shows just how hard my wallet would be battered by buying something like this - we're talking an extra £2K on fuel alone over something like...


Why not look at something 2nd hand if your budget is £30-£35k, you could get a proper motorway muncher with some performance too. 535d, E350 etc. You can get great economy on those while cruising.


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## Dan Gull (Jul 24, 2009)

alexharvey said:


> Im sure its older tech in the seats n skoda compared to VW n Aldi


The GTD, Octavia and Leon are all running the same engine and front diff even if nothing else...


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## Dan Gull (Jul 24, 2009)

SteveyG said:


> Why not look at something 2nd hand if your budget is £30-£35k, you could get a proper motorway muncher with some performance too. 535d, E350 etc.


There are complicated reasons for staying with a brand new leased car - mainly due to my employment status.

However, my new job will be the majority of my income and isn't self employed, so it's something I'm considering.


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

yeah prob are but im sure alot of stuff is older in seat and skoda , just look at the exeo estate seat its 2 genaration old audi

not saying its bad thing !

i just prefer VW or Audi 

id get the GTD out of them


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

alexharvey said:


> yeah 135i is a great car too
> id have the golf R just my choice and R is quicker


The M135i is quicker than the R both in a straight line and around a circuit.

The Seat Leon R also comfortably beats the Golf R.


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

RisingPower said:


> Awesome, the only difference is in the plastics :lol:


In SOME models...... clearly there are other differences the higher up the ranges (or models) in the marques.

your not going to find a SEAT/SKODA rival for an Audi RS4/6/8 *rolls eyes*

If your looking at.....say an Audi A3, VW Golf or Leon in a similar price bracket then the Audi and VW Will be a little more plusher than the SEAT


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

Kerr said:


> The M135i is quicker than the R both in a straight line and around a circuit.
> 
> The Seat Leon R also comfortably beats the Golf R.


Quicker than the new R?


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## Dan Gull (Jul 24, 2009)

If the GTD were an estate (which may happen I believe) it would high up the list.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

alexharvey said:


> Quicker than the new R?


Yes quicker than the new R.


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

well re map the r and it will be quicker lol 500 quid option


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

millns84 said:


> Leon Cupra 280 would get my vote - I love the looks and it's got the record for a FWD car around the Nurburgring if you're interested


It cheated a lot to get it though.

"Optional" tyres and a handling pack that you can't actually buy.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Dan Gull said:


> If the GTD were an estate (which may happen I believe) it would high up the list.


The Focus ST Estate is shortly going to be available in 182PS diesel guise too. Not great performance but another option if you liked the look of the ST.


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## Dan Gull (Jul 24, 2009)

SteveyG - I've heard the rumours too. Have you to any reliable info? Does it tie in with the facelift?


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

0 to 60 are same for Golf r and m135
top gear the gti was only just behind the m135


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

alexharvey said:


> well re map the r and it will be quicker lol 500 quid option


That's not really a valid argument though. You can remap all of the turbocharged hatches to gain performance.

Remap the M135i and add a LSD that will dramatically increase the performance.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Andyg_TSi said:


> In SOME models...... clearly there are other differences the higher up the ranges (or models) in the marques.
> 
> your not going to find a SEAT/SKODA rival for an Audi RS4/6/8 *rolls eyes*
> 
> If your looking at.....say an Audi A3, VW Golf or Leon in a similar price bracket then the Audi and VW Will be a little more plusher than the SEAT


How many people include the rs4/rs5/rs6/r8/s8 in this kind of debate, it's just an audi, a vw or a seat, the model means diddly to them.

They're bloody average hatchbacks, not anything else.

The only audi a3 i've been in was horrid inside, but things have probably moved on since then.


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

Kerr said:


> That's not really a valid argument though. You can remap all of the turbocharged hatches to gain performance.
> 
> Remap the M135i and add a LSD that will dramatically increase the performance.


yep thats true 
im not arguying im just saying id have the golf r as they are much more tunable than m135

golf R is 300 bhp for factory 4wd
m135 is 316bhp Rwd

you wont get as much performance increase in the 135 as the R

just my choice :driver:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

alexharvey said:


> 0 to 60 are same for Golf r and m135
> top gear the gti was only just behind the m135


What Top Gear where you watching? It took 3.5secs off it around the track. That's a huge gap.

When the M135i spun, it was stationary by the time the Golf caught up.

The M135i has the same 0-60mph, although it has tested at 4.6secs on numerous tests and bare in mind it is 2wd and doesn't have the advantage of the 4wd launches of the Golf.

The M135i is hitting 100mph in 10.8secs. The Golf R is 12secs.

It isn't surprising the M135i is a bit quicker, it does have more power and torque.


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Wasn't this about the 135i not the m135 anyways? 

I think the op already knows the answer to his own question without another, I like this brand, all others suck debate


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

Dan Gull said:


> SteveyG - I've heard the rumours too. Have you to any reliable info? Does it tie in with the facelift?


No press release from Ford that I can find which says when it'll be in the UK, but they did announce it will going ahead.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

alexharvey said:


> yep thats true
> im not arguying im just saying id have the golf r as they are much more tunable than m135
> 
> golf R is 300 bhp for factory 4wd
> ...


What makes you think that?

The BMW has the big advantage of having an engine 50% bigger to start with.

The M135i has the newer N55 engine which hasn't been really explored yet. The previous N54 engine has tuned cars running at almost 900BHP with stock engine internals. The N55 won't be capable of that, but it will hit serious figures once people push it.


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## Dan Gull (Jul 24, 2009)

RisingPower said:


> Wasn't this about the 135i not the m135 anyways?
> 
> I think the op already knows the answer to his own question without another, I like this brand, all others suck debate


It should be noted - the 135i and Golf R weren't top of the list in the first place...:lol:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Dan Gull said:


> You know that feeling when you simply can't decide what car to go with next?
> 
> I currently drive a Seat Leon FR+ 170 diesel which I've had from new - and it's been fine. Actually no, it's been good, but do I love the car? No. It was purchased at a time when I was doing huge mileage and so needed the oil burner economy.
> 
> ...


70 miles a day is a lot. All the performance cars will all be around 30MPG, maybe a bit more is you are doing longer journeys.

You will end up doing 25,000+ miles per year once you add you own miles.

I'm not a fan of diesel cars, but there is a point they make sense and you are well within it.

Not liking your chances of getting a good lease deal with doing so many miles.

I'd weigh up the possibility of buying something you are happy to run into the ground over a few years and buy a nice little toy to keep for special days.


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

Kerr said:


> What makes you think that?
> 
> The BMW has the big advantage of having an engine 50% bigger to start with.
> 
> The M135i has the newer N55 engine which hasn't been really explored yet. The previous N54 engine has tuned cars running at almost 900BHP with stock engine internals. The N55 won't be capable of that, but it will hit serious figures once people push it.


bigger turbo on the R 
more tunable at alot lower cost a simple map and it will blast the M135 its a known engine with lots of mapping options even a exhaust big intake would be less than £2500 inc map

show me another car that you will get huge gains for that cost

of coarse ultimatly u would be able to get more power out of the bmw unit but im thinking real world driving and running when i get my R thats what i will do as i have on my gti running 298 bhp for the last 4 years

you can get over 1000 bhp from the r32 engine but you couldnt use that car everyday lol
:detailer:


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

Kerr said:


> 70 miles a day is a lot. All the performance cars will all be around 30MPG, maybe a bit more is you are doing longer journeys.
> 
> You will end up doing 25,000+ miles per year once you add you own miles.
> 
> ...


good idea 
buy something secound hand n cheap GTD maybe older one!


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

Dan Gull said:


> It should be noted - the 135i and Golf R weren't top of the list in the first place...:lol:


They're all the bloody same to me :lol:

I honestly would struggle with choosing between them if I had to make a choice, neither of them interest me in the least.

Now, something like the e90 m3 or c63, maybe, but I don't think I want to revisit my experiences of an m3 and a c63 would probably be just as bad if not worse


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

RisingPower said:


> They're all the bloody same to me :lol:
> 
> I honestly would struggle with choosing between them if I had to make a choice, neither of them interest me in the least.


what car do you drive or what would u buy at that price range?


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

alexharvey said:


> yep thats true
> im not arguying im just saying id have the golf r as they are much more tunable than m135
> 
> golf R is 300 bhp for factory 4wd
> ...


Says who?

You'll have to tune the R to get it to get the same performance as the 135 as standard.


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

B17BLG said:


> Says who?
> 
> You'll have to tune the R to get it to get the same performance as the 135 as standard.


VW and BMW says

135 is less power than m135 also


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## RisingPower (Sep 21, 2007)

alexharvey said:


> what car do you drive or what would u buy at that price range?


If I had to buy a new car, would it have to be brand new? If not, as prev post.

If so, I honestly don't know, I don't think I would do that. Seems pointless for a finance company to have you by the balls for such a boring car.

I don't see any reason to change the ancient 350z yet, it certainly wouldn't be for a 30-35k lease deal.


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## SteveyG (Apr 1, 2007)

alexharvey said:


> 135 is less power than m135 also


What??


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

alexharvey said:


> bigger turbo on the R
> more tunable at alot lower cost a simple map and it will blast the M135 its a known engine with lots of mapping options even a exhaust big intake would be less than £2500 inc map
> 
> show me another car that you will get huge gains for that cost
> ...


What gains does the R get?

£350 sees the M135i at 360BHP. A few guys are at 390BHP.

Like every car you start throwing all that extra power at a car, you need to make sure the car can cope.

Quite a few tests have already said the R brakes struggle.

The M135i needs a LSD with the extra power. An LSD is optional with the M235i.


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

alexharvey said:


> VW and BMW says
> 
> 135 is less power than m135 also


Power to weight is superior in the 135.

No transmission loss in the 135.

Golf has less torque


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

Kerr said:


> What gains does the R get?
> 
> £350 sees the M135i at 360BHP. A few guys are at 390BHP.
> 
> ...


there are Rs with well over 550 bhp around and running WMI 
with massive intercoolers n brakes etc etc

just for me when i get mine ill keep it simple with a map and exhaust n cold air intake and see around 380 to 400 bhp n 4wd my choice

ive been in mates 390 bhp R and seems what i would want!! lol funds allowwing at mo im happy in my old GTI running CAI map and exhaust


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## Andyg_TSi (Sep 6, 2013)

Why are people going on about remaps...

The OP is looking at leasing a car, presumably a lease with a maintenance package. I'm sure no lease company would allow mods to their vehicle and I doubt the OP would want to spend cash modding a car that will never be his lol


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Why not spend 3/4k on a car, not worry about depreciation and spend what you would on a lease on something else?
Also, fast cars? Why? 
If someone told me their car had 300bhp I'd more than likely just say "Really?, wow. All that power and you can still only go as fast as me in my fat old Peugeot tractor"
Brakehorse power or spec and least outlay?, getting the most car for the least money always wins for me.
Although it depends, some people like poverty spec and premium badges, but they're silly.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

So 70 miles a day is 16800 miles per year 350 a week and 48 weeks as I assume you will have a holiday. Throw on some private miles and I reckon you will be around 20k. 

Leasing tends to favour expensive cars, ones that hold there money well, this is why it's often cheaper to lease a merc over a mondeo. As an example a golf 1.6 tdi works out around £250 per month with full maint on 15k, put the mileage upto 35k and it's nearer £525. The service is the killer. Skodas tend to work out cheaper on high mile leases when I last reviewed our fleet, given you want to move stuff then I would be looking at a skoda superb se, having said that the new golf is very big, I managed to get a single mattres in the back of one.

If it was me I would go out a buy an 18 month old insignia or mondeo estate and run it until you are bored. You are not tied to a contract which means if your circumstances change you can chop the car in. Both will have the balance of the manufacturers warranty and will be better motorway cars than the golf/ Leon. 

The other option is to go the banger route, my friend covers 115 miles a day, his ride usa 306 hdi that I found him. £650 with tax and mot, it stands him at a wheel bearing, back box and a drop link. It's had 1 service and an mot. He has put over 30k on the clock. If that doesn't fit the role you could pick up a jag x type estate stick a private plate on it and nobody would know how old it is.


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

30,000 
id buy a 997 if you can get one for that money Proper car
job done lol


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## B17BLG (Jun 26, 2012)

PugIain said:


> Why not spend 3/4k on a car, not worry about depreciation and spend what you would on a lease on something else?
> Also, fast cars? Why?
> If someone told me their car had 300bhp I'd more than likely just say "Really?, wow. All that power and you can still only go as fast as me in my fat old Peugeot tractor"
> Brakehorse power or spec and least outlay?, getting the most car for the least money always wins for me.
> Although it depends, some people like poverty spec and premium badges, but they're silly.


Fast cars why? Dear oh dear


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

alexharvey said:


> there are Rs with well over 550 bhp around and running WMI
> with massive intercoolers n brakes etc etc
> 
> just for me when i get mine ill keep it simple with a map and exhaust n cold air intake and see around 380 to 400 bhp n 4wd my choice
> ...


We're away off in a different level now.

What i will say is for all these power figures, most are rarely useable as most people can't actually drive.

Guys go round Knockhill in Nissan GTRs thinking they are driving gods. Their lap times are slower than kids manage in 97bhp Fiesta XR2s which are road legal cars.

Too many people are possessed with figures and miss the real shortfalls.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

Chris Harris posted a bit a few weeks back that was linked to the BMW site. 

His opinion was he had never driven a good modified car. They had all ruined the car in one way or another, or the car was simply out its depth.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I thought he loved his s4 that was remapped ?


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

SteveTDCi said:


> I thought he loved his s4 that was remapped ?


I did say that on the BMW forum.

I was also sure he spent a lot on huge brakes?

When he was proving the performance of it, he did only do a straight line test and didn't mention corners.


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## SteveTDCi (Feb 8, 2006)

I think there is a video on you tube, one of the drag race and another across country, chasing a porsche I think ...


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

i like modding cars and never ruined any of my cars my hobby to do thee work and detailing 

i like fast cars what can i do

ive also had porsches which you cant modd without spending small fortunes! 

depends who is driving the track i cannot for 1 minute imagine a xr2 beating a GTR and if so the xr2 must be modded to the max with brakes suspension etc etc that would never happen how can anyone drive a GTR that badly LOL


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

anyway this isnt about modding or not 

i think the op should buy a estate seat exoe if thats what its called looks good and u can get a diesel one which will be econmical


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

alexharvey said:


> i like modding cars and never ruined any of my cars my hobby to do thee work and detailing
> 
> i like fast cars what can i do
> 
> ...


You'd be amazed.

Knockhill is a bit tight but does have enough straights.

The XR2s are stripped out, road tyres and a roll cage. Bog standard engines. Good guys are doing 1.03 laps. British Touring Cars are 52secs with 300bhp.

Have a look on youtube and see how many souped up cars can't beat that.


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

Kerr said:


> You'd be amazed.
> 
> Knockhill is a bit tight but does have enough straights.
> 
> ...


i will check it out

i will be shocked if an xr2 i had a few of them too can beat a GTR lol


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

PugIain said:


> Why not spend 3/4k on a car, not worry about depreciation and spend what you would on a lease on something else?
> Also, fast cars? Why?
> If someone told me their car had 300bhp I'd more than likely just say "Really?, wow. All that power and you can still only go as fast as me in my fat old Peugeot tractor"
> Brakehorse power or spec and least outlay?, getting the most car for the least money always wins for me.
> Although it depends, some people like poverty spec and premium badges, but they're silly.


i think u will find u can go faster than a diesel pug with most cars


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

alexharvey said:


> i will check it out
> 
> i will be shocked if an xr2 i had a few of them too can beat a GTR lol


That's how much difference a driver makes.

Loads of folk can't even drive down a straight line properly for a quarter mile. People keep quoting 0-60mph times and many of them can't get remotely close to it, especially 4wd cars.

People can lose 1 second going straight for barely 400m.

They've added launch control in many cars to do it for them. They haven't designed one for taking corners yet.


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

alexharvey said:


> i think u will find u can go faster than a diesel pug with most cars


SShh it's a secret!


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

4WD cars are a bit harder to launch sometimes ive never had a problem with them tho 

give me a GTR to borrow and get an xr2 any spec ill race anyone LOL

see what wins

would be fun to try

i never use launch control my mates gti has it on dsg i prefer without


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## alexharvey (May 16, 2013)

Kerr said:


> That's how much difference a driver makes.
> 
> Loads of folk can't even drive down a straight line properly for a quarter mile. People keep quoting 0-60mph times and many of them can't get remotely close to it, especially 4wd cars.
> 
> ...


they have designed it for corners its called a GTR LOL


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