# Another dealership 'horror story'



## petesimcock (Aug 2, 2012)

Hey up guys. This isn't so much a horror story as just a big fail on VW's part. Bit of background first, I own a Mk5 Golf GTI in Tornado Red, had it for 6 months and still loving every minute of it (except the regular trips to the petrol station). In august I went to Shinearama on a 1-day course during which the car got a 2 step (IIRC) polish with a mix of DA and rotary and came out looking top notch. Still a few RDS remaining but nothing major and all swirls removed. Ever since then, sat in the sun the car has looked amazing. I have obviously taken really good care of it since, its washed weekly or bi-weekly sometimes with snowfoam, 2BM and lambswool mitt, dryed gently.

It is worth mentioning that before I went on this course, I took the car to VW to have the DSG box serviced, washed my car the day before and figured 'They'll look at that and realise its too clean to need washing' so didnt bother asking them not to wash it. Naturally I collected it and it was covered in drying marks on every surface from them washing it. Phoned up the next day and just let them know that they'd done a poor job of washing it and it looked worse than when I left it with them.

This month has seen the car reach 60k and the service light greeting me every morning. I am desperate to keep up my FVWSH so booked it in with the same dealership for a service. This was the first time I asked them not to wash it.

Can you tell where this is going?

Dropped it off yesterday morning, told the woman that I take a lot of care of my car and stressed another few times that I did not want it cleaning. She wrote this onto the job sheet in huge letters and highlighted it and they also have a card which is attached to the key which was marked No wash. I left for a few hours, happy in the knowledge that my beast would soon be all healthy for another year. Came back to collect it, didnt see the car outside when I went in. Waited (for 50 minutes!!!) for my car, paid my money, walked out to my car and immediately noticed the drying streaks, about turned to see what they had to say for themselves. The service receptionist was puzzled and a bit embarrassed that this had happened so passed me onto the service manager. really nice bloke who quickly admitted that he doesnt have his car washed when it is serviced there an that they have been improving their wash technique over the last few months. We had a really long chat during which he offered to wipe the car over to remove the drying marks (I declined) and did make me feel a bit happier about the situation. So I left, pissed off that they had somehow missed that It was not meant to be 'cleaned' and that I was going to need to wash it again quite soon to make it look respectable but overall, happy enough.


This morning, I walk outside to my car and see to my horror that it is covered in swirl marks. Quite obviously swirl marks from a single poor wash as there only seems to be one 'set' if you get what I mean. I am devastated. The car doesnt look bad under normal light hence why I didn't see it when I collected, but in the sun its horrible, just covered in swirl marks. Obviously its not that bad, but its my car so I'm seeing the worst. So I'm sat here looking at it wondering what I should do. I haven't spoken to the service manager at the dealership yet as I want a clear idea of what I want them to do about it beforehand. I do not want them to 'buff them out' and do not want to get into the process of getting quotes from people locally and presenting them to the dealer. What I've thought though is that I could ask them to cover the cost of a bottle of Supernatural micro prime (or similar) and a suitable pad for my DA.


What do people think I should do? What product will take out these swirls without eating into my clearcoat too much? And should I be badgering the dealer for some money off my next service or something?

Thankyou for taking the time to read this post, I know its been a bit of a long one but I really needed to vent somewhere!


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## richardr (Oct 21, 2013)

There is a longish thread on here about dealers washing cars etc you might get some ideas what can and cant be done

Personally i would go mental, but maybe thats just me 

I would want the cost of any correction work covered by the dealer by either a voucher for a service/repair work or they can pay a detailer the cost of the work.

Try to get the original paper work with your instructions on

A threat with the small claims court sometimes works well and its a cheap route to take

Start pleasantly then play hard ball if not satistied

Good luck


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## AaronGTi (Nov 2, 2010)

I dont go near main dealers I use a very reputable vag specialist who does not offer wash services. Simple.


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## petesimcock (Aug 2, 2012)

Congratulations. 

I managed to get VW to price match to the price of my local very reputable vag specialist so figured I was winning. Apparently not :/

I knew if they washed it they would **** it up. So I went out of my way to ask them not to on multiple occasions!


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## -Kev- (Oct 30, 2007)

you'll find it very difficult to get them to admitt responsibility, unless you have photographic proof of the car before and after they washed it (showing paint condition under sunlight or artifical lighting)..


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

just leave it, you wont be able to prove the condition of the car therefore prove the damage they caused, its frustrating i know and a worry which it shouldnt i leave massive print outs on the dash both seats etc so its clear. 

the dealer wil only offer to correct it and you know what that means and even worse state imho.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Your philosophy is right and your expectations realistic. The fact so much trouble was taken in requesting a no wash coupled with what sounds like a decent manager I would expect you to have little trouble in getting a discounted service or similar. Don't go "mental" as has been suggested, it just doesn't work, infact it only makes your case weaker. You will have a hard job getting cash out of a dealer for comp. discount off a service is the way forward.
Good luck.:thumb:


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## petesimcock (Aug 2, 2012)

There's no way I would let their guy loose on it with a 'buffer' so I will probably just correct it myself. However I don't have a PTG or access to one. I figure I'll just be very careful


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## Bliss (Sep 23, 2012)

I know some people frown upon glazes, but you could try one, if the swirls aren't too heavy. At least they won't show and you can correct the paint when you get a PTG/someone else to do it.

No advice about the dealership situation, sorry.


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## richardr (Oct 21, 2013)

Ill qualify my "mental" approach 

I wouldnt do it in a shouting way just be like a dog with a bone

I wouldnt let it go untill i had satisfaction

No joy with the dealer then go to vag direct, they dont like bad publicity 

This is just my approach, what you do is up to you


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## alan h M (Aug 1, 2013)

i know you dont want to but
i would get quotes for pro detailers to fix the damage done, including any protection removed etc. 
talk to them and see what they say. 
make sure you get a copy of the document with the do not wash instruction. 

if they wont pay to fix it then sent them a small claims court notice. 
they will change their tune fairly fast. 

if it goes to court im sure a judge would side with you. 
im sure you have pics of the car from when you did the coarse. 
im sure that if you had receipts of doing a car cleaning coarse adn buying hundreds of pounds worth of dtailing products the judge would work out that your car was looked after and unlikely to be in the state its in. 
i would get someone with a PTG to report how thick the paint is.. this will show that know your stuff and really care. 

the way i look at it is that they broke the terms of the contract to service the car. you state and they agreed not to wash your car.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

alan h M said:


> i know you dont want to but
> i would get quotes for pro detailers to fix the damage done, including any protection removed etc.
> talk to them and see what they say.
> make sure you get a copy of the document with the do not wash instruction.
> ...


The course was in August and this is the end of October. I highly doubt that after so many weeks that the car would be as good.

There is no physical proof of the harn caused.

Not saying this is the case here, but often people don't find things until they go looking. Also your car might have a ding that'll you've never noticed for months, but once you do notice it, you spot it from miles away every time after.


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## m2srt (Oct 5, 2012)

I had exactly the same problem with VAG (Halifax Volkswagen) when I took my last car for a service (also a Tornado Red GTI DSG). The valeting is carried out by an external company who get paid per unit, so they aren't going to let a car slip through the net regardless of how clean it is. Since buying a Volvo, I use their 'while you wait' service and make a point of sticking a 'do not wash' poster on the dash, making them write it on the service sheet and making sure I fully detail the car the day before. So far, its worked and they haven't touched the car.


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

All very well talking about legal action but first you would have to explain to a judge what a swirl is and then with more difficulty I predict, convince him/her that swirls are wrong and not the norm.


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## richardr (Oct 21, 2013)

S63 said:


> All very well talking about legal action but first you would have to explain to a judge what a swirl is and then with more difficulty I predict, convince him/her that swirls are wrong and not the norm.


Small claims court action starts around £100 so not a massive expense

The point is the "threat" of court not the action

Its all a game of poker, who has the most to loose?


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## richardr (Oct 21, 2013)

m2srt said:


> I had exactly the same problem with VAG (Halifax Volkswagen) when I took my last car for a service (also a Tornado Red GTI DSG). The valeting is carried out by an external company who get paid per unit, so they aren't going to let a car slip through the net regardless of how clean it is. Since buying a Volvo, I use their 'while you wait' service and make a point of sticking a 'do not wash' poster on the dash, making them write it on the service sheet and making sure I fully detail the car the day before. So far, its worked and they haven't touched the car.


Makes no difference if its an external company, they are under instructions from the dealer, the dealer is liable for damages etc


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

richardr said:


> Small claims court action starts around £100 so not a massive expense
> 
> The point is the "threat" of court not the action
> 
> Its all a game of poker, who has the most to loose?


I've witnessed situations where I work, the managers normally say "bring it on" With the backing of a full time legal department and no concern over costs, it's the customer that normally backs down.


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## richardr (Oct 21, 2013)

S63 said:


> I've witnessed situations where I work, the managers normally say "bring it on" With the backing of a full time legal department and no concern over costs, it's the customer that normally backs down.


They haven't had any dealings with me then 

For the sake of £100 i would say to them bring it on, as they have more to lose and it doesn't look good in the local paper either

Some people haven't got the stomach for a bit of a face off or cant be bothered

Different strokes for different folks

Out of interest do you work for a car stealer then?


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## Otto (Feb 2, 2013)

petesim**** said:


> There's no way I would let their guy loose on it with a 'buffer' so I will probably just correct it myself. However I don't have a PTG or access to one. I figure I'll just be very careful


I may be incorrect but from my experience of VAG paint is that it is very hard. I've gone at VAG paint hardcore with slow success quite recently:buffer:. Therefore a finishing polish will HIGHLY LIKELY be okay providing you havn't had a previous hardcore correction and there is no surprises in the paint such as thin area. It's all relative and to be assessed accordingly.

Where are you based. I would be happy to have a look if you are near and if so correct it for you dependent on the condition.

PM me your location and if I can and I will definitely help you out. I am busy this month but I would love to lend a hand where possible. Minimum I can do is offer you some good advice.

Cheers Otto


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

richardr said:


> Out of interest do you work for a car stealer then?


I do.:thumb:


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## richardr (Oct 21, 2013)

S63 said:


> I do.:thumb:


I never fail to be amazed that people/company's dont seem to give a s**t about the people that actually pay their wages ie the customer

Its a different world out there now and imho not for the better unfortunately


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

richardr said:


> I never fail to be amazed that people/company's dont seem to give a s**t about the people that actually pay their wages ie the customer
> 
> Its a different world out there now and imho not for the better unfortunately


Sadly the same in most industries, the shareholder is the king.


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## richardr (Oct 21, 2013)

S63 said:


> Sadly the same in most industries, the shareholder is the king.


Ive turned into a right grumpy old man :lol:


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

richardr said:


> Ive turned into a right grumpy old man :lol:


That's my title and I ain't giving it up yet.


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## jenks (Apr 20, 2009)

De ja vue Pete :devil:

If you don't get any joy with the dealer try the glaze in the waxybox you have , if you haven't got any glaze you can have my sample mate. Also I will let you try JayR8's homebrew wax to top it off when I get it

Think we both need on of the DO NOT WASH signs


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

jenks said:


> Think we both need on of the DO NOT WASH signs


Can't see that helping if a notice is on the job card and more importantly a card attached to the key. Some (not all) car washers are paid per vehicle, couple that with a poor command of the English language in some dealerships it's clear to see the reason all valiant efforts are ignored.


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## Tricky Red (Mar 3, 2007)

No point in Court Action, you would be laughed at.

Best thing to do is vote with your feet and not go back. I had an experience with Audi that was ultimately resolved, but included a respray to a panel etc etc. 

I kept calm and all ended good, albeit with massive holograms from the paint job. 

I won't go back; the issue was resolved, it was what they should have done but next time I'm back to my faithful indie, irrespective of Full service history. 

It is difficult to understand their mentality, but there you go.


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## alan h M (Aug 1, 2013)

Kerr said:


> The course was in August and this is the end of October. I highly doubt that after so many weeks that the car would be as good.
> 
> There is no physical proof of the harn caused.
> 
> Not saying this is the case here, but often people don't find things until they go looking. Also your car might have a ding that'll you've never noticed for months, but once you do notice it, you spot it from miles away every time after.


i agree with you about the finding marks when washing etc. 
i often find little marks that wernt visible before i washed etc. once i knew it was there i could see it really easily.

i know there is no physical proof of this washing doing the damage.

my point about the course was that it showed that you knew about keeping the car right and showed that you cared enough about your car to do the course and as a result would not have a car in that state.


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## HarryHedgehog (Aug 13, 2013)

Be polite but assertive. Local dealer here offered to pay for a full detail (400quid) due to them doing the same, sometimes, just sometime they do pay out. Good luck!


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## petesimcock (Aug 2, 2012)

I'll have a speak to the guy at the dealership and see what they have to say for themselves. I don't mind correcting it myself, I see it as a little challenge. I'm not struck on using a glaze. I think I'll have a little blast on a panel with my revitalise stage 3 when I get chance. 

The reason I don't want to go through small claims and getting nasty is that the service manager is a really nice guy and I could tell he was annoyed that it had happened. There is also no real way to prove the paint was good before, apart from the fact that there's only 1 'set' of swirls.


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## richardr (Oct 21, 2013)

petesim**** said:


> I'll have a speak to the guy at the dealership and see what they have to say for themselves. I don't mind correcting it myself, I see it as a little challenge. I'm not struck on using a glaze. I think I'll have a little blast on a panel with my revitalise stage 3 when I get chance.
> 
> The reason I don't want to go through small claims and getting nasty is that the service manager is a really nice guy and I could tell he was annoyed that it had happened. There is also no real way to prove the paint was good before, apart from the fact that there's only 1 'set' of swirls.


You dont have to get nasty

But even if the service guy is a nice bloke, they did what you didnt want doing so he has failed in his job

Im a nice bloke but if i knocked a wall down in your house you wanted to keep you wouldnt be too happy, or would you


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## petesimcock (Aug 2, 2012)

I hear you. I'll report back tomorrow when ive spoken to him


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## richardr (Oct 21, 2013)

Id be interested to hear what they have to say :thumb:


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## richtea78 (Apr 16, 2011)

Court? I reckon you have no chance

You have to prove financial lost if you want compensation and most people would not care therefore very hard to get anything


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## petesimcock (Aug 2, 2012)

I've just got off the phone to the service manager. He has again apologised profusely for the damage etc and we have reached an agreement as to how to sort this out. He understands that I would rather sort the damage myself than give them the car back. So he is going to credit £50 onto my account with the dealership to use against my next service or parts and try to source me a little something extra for my trouble, not sure what this may be but do have some idea. I am quite happy with this all things considered and he has been very apologetic and helpful. Not a bad result in my eyes. now I have to think more about the best way to correct the swirls.


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## Daveskater (Jan 13, 2012)

Id get in touch and see what they have to offer, then depending on how it goes either tell them they're paying the bill for a detail, or I want a refund on the service (assuming that will probably be a fair few quid being a main dealer). Don't tell them that you won't be going back or anything like that, otherwise they then won't have a motive to keep you happy.

Edit - too slow 

Glad you've managed to get something out of them. It might not be the cost of having a pro detail done, but I'm surprised they came straight out with an offer like that. It may well be that he appreciates a well looked after car himself so can empathise with you. If you have a DA then you could go at it yourself, but I would suggest that for VW paint Supernatural Micro Prime won't be enough on its own. You could use it after something a bit stronger to get super gloss out of the paint, but doubt it will do much correction on its own. It sounds like you have the Revitalise kit, so see how you get on with that first


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## richardr (Oct 21, 2013)

im glad you got something out of it.

And no reason why you shouldnt have.

If you continue to use that dealer, as there isnt any reason you shouldnt, ill bet they dont wash your car next time 

It might also help some one else out in the future and a president has now been set

Nice result :thumb: and if you are happy alls good


Ohh desperate to know what the little extra is going to be


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## petesimcock (Aug 2, 2012)

Me too...I will try to update if I get anything. Possibly a little something to help with the correction from a Swiss company...


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## richardr (Oct 21, 2013)

The only way to improve customer service is complain if its bad but say if you get good service as well

I dont understand why people in this country don't complain more if it warrants it

You do realise all that gave good advice here has a part share in any products you get from the dealer :lol:


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

richardr said:


> The only way to improve customer service is complain if its bad but say if you get good service as well
> 
> I dont understand why people in this country don't complain more if it warrants it
> 
> You do realise all that gave good advice here has a part share in any products you get from the dealer :lol:


That's why they invented the internet.

Nobody says anything at the time, but once home they start threads everywhere about it :lol:


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## richardr (Oct 21, 2013)

Kerr said:


> That's why they invented the internet.
> 
> Nobody says anything at the time, but once home they start threads everywhere about it :lol:


And he was British


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## TonyH38 (Apr 7, 2013)

Glad you came out of it with something


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## petesimcock (Aug 2, 2012)

Thankyou for your help guys, when the car is cleaned again and ready for its correction I will put some pictures in here so you can see what damage was done. Finding it hard to photograph with lack of sun and a layer of dirt on the car already. Cheers again for the advice!


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## Benjic2 (Apr 21, 2010)

I know you are glad with the outcome but to be honest mate they have had your pants down. At the end of the day they have ****** your car up and got away with it. I'm absolutely gob-smacked about them offering £50, and then have the pure cheek to say you have to spend it with them! Same happened with my old mans XFR, they were denying responsibility until I parked it right in the middle of the forecourt, walked into the dealership, handed the keys to the receptionist and told her I wouldn't be picking it up until it was sorted. Its fair to say the manager quickly changed his tune when potential customers in the showroom had started getting pretty interested in what was going on. He was clever enough to realise that £500 to correct the car was a drop in the ocean when someone was about to order a 50k car. I picked the detailer and got a free service out of it aswell. Ever since they have been brilliant and don't dare to lay a finger on it, and we actually have a laugh about it now when the car goes for a service etc.


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## petesimcock (Aug 2, 2012)

Nice work. 

I don't have the time or inclination to play hardball with them to be honest. I'm perfectly happy with what I've got. It's my local vw dealer and if rather not have to go to another one in future, it was an honest mistake which if anything has given me the chance to improve my DA work. If my car gets washed next time it goes to them, that is when I would probably lose my ****.


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## petesimcock (Aug 2, 2012)

I'd just like to add that the swirls inflicted were nowhere near as bad as the black civic that was talked about recently in Wales.


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## The Pan Man (Apr 16, 2010)

Glad you had a result. I have tried small claims court twice, and employed the services of a debt collector, and yes you guessed correctly never got a penny of my money back.


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## Marve (Jul 5, 2013)

Kerr said:


> That's why they invented the internet.


I thought it was for porn?


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

Be interesting to see what parts needs replacing next time. Glad you got it sorted though


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## clap (Aug 26, 2013)

I've just picked up my 911 from the main dealer and they have managed to scratch the paint alongside the rear window. I am just about to have to go through the ordeal of going to war with them (again). I stopped using main dealers and found independent specialists much better. I've only gone back as the car is under warranty and it's a condition of the warranty. My previous experiences have largely been confirmed.


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## petesimcock (Aug 2, 2012)

Maintaining my FVWSH is the only reason I entertained the idea of going to a main dealer. I do kind of regret it but I did only pay what my local vag specialist would have charged. I suppose the trade-off was that my paint is now horribly swirled. I can't understand why a car dealership wouldn't take care of their customers cars! I've a good mind to go in there and ask for a job valeting!


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

All's 'Swirl' that ends 'Swirl'


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## petesimcock (Aug 2, 2012)

Alls swirl that ends with hours of avoidable polishing...


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## richardr (Oct 21, 2013)

They think they are doing you a favour with a free "wash"

As said before most people think its great, ahh little do they know, or come to it care

I checked with VW commercial today as my van has to go in for some warranty work

Says i "do you wash the vans"

Says service manager "Yes"

Says i "dont do mine"

Says service manager "Ill make a note"

Thinks i "you f***ing well better" lol


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## Benjic2 (Apr 21, 2010)

Why do people obsess over dealership history? It makes absolutely no difference to the sell on value, and it has absolute zero effect on your legal rights to claim against your warranty. I could probably speak on behalf of most car enthusiasts and say that I look for cars which have history with specialist and not dealers. The only thing it has an effect on is your back pocket.


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## richardr (Oct 21, 2013)

Benjic2 said:


> Why do people obsess over dealership history? It makes absolutely no difference to the sell on value, and it has absolute zero effect on your legal rights to claim against your warranty. I could probably speak on behalf of most car enthusiasts and say that I look for cars which have history with specialist and not dealers. The only thing it has an effect on is your back pocket.


Agreed

But, if you use an independent they must use manufacturers approved parts to have the warranty honored


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## bensales (Oct 28, 2006)

clap said:


> I've just picked up my 911 from the main dealer and they have managed to scratch the paint alongside the rear window. I am just about to have to go through the ordeal of going to war with them (again). I stopped using main dealers and found independent specialists much better. I've only gone back as the car is under warranty and it's a condition of the warranty. My previous experiences have largely been confirmed.


I've just been quite impressed with the Jaguar dealer I've started using. When I dropped the car off, they walked round it hire car-style to note down all marks, scratches and defects on the body and it's noted on the paperwork. They asked if I wanted it washing (even when it was just in for free diagnostic work!) and didn't bat an eyelid when I declined.

I did see the valeter out in the carpark and was going to have a nosey to see her process (plus she was quite an attractive young lady ) but didn't get round to it.


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## Steve Burnett (Apr 21, 2009)

A4 sheet of paper on the dash that reads "DO NOT WASH THIS CAR" and add aother on the passanger seat.
Don't just tell the service person. Tell the person who might wash it!


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

petesim**** said:


> Alls swirl that ends with hours of avoidable polishing...[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> petesim**** said:
> ...


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## richardr (Oct 21, 2013)

Steve Burnett said:


> A4 sheet of paper on the dash that reads "DO NOT WASH THIS CAR" and add aother on the passanger seat.
> Don't just tell the service person. Tell the person who might wash it!


I did my signs last night

One in red and one in black


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

Whenever my Golf goes in for a service at the dealership I always get them to write on the job-card *Do Not Wash* & they also attach a card to the key with the same note.

The service manager who now knows how 'picky' I am about the washing of my car even comes out with a sheet of paper now to inspect the cars condition & notes down any damage so that we (mostly me) are both happy.

I also stick a sheet to the dash reading 'Do Not Wash My Car' & so far it's always worked!


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## petesimcock (Aug 2, 2012)

It's not 'that' bad. But it will take me hours to sort due to my lack of experience


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