# 2013 Volkswagen Golf - Likey or no Likey?



## JA0395

Well here it is guys, first official pictures, I'm quite liking the lower stance, front and interior design. But feel the rear is a bit if a let down. Let me know what you think! 

*sorry about the size of the images if they're too large, using my iPad.




























Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## rf860

VW's and Audi's are becoming pretty much the same car! The new Jetta looks like an a4 from the rear


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## dave955

Mmmm definitely evolution not revolution


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## JA0395

rf860 said:


> VW's and Audi's are becoming pretty much the same car! The new Jetta looks like an a4 from the rear


They really are, wouldn't be surprised to see the next Veyron looking like a Polo :lol:
The Polo and Passat are to see a similar revamp soon to see the cost of building their cars drop.


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## cmillsjoe

not to keen on them but the inside looks good


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## Dannbodge

It's not bad


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## 182_Blue

Looks OK to me, looking forward to an R version !, seems they have finally changed the RNS510 Radio too.


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## rf860

JA0395 said:


> They really are, wouldn't be surprised to see the next Veyron looking like a Polo :lol:
> The Polo and Passat are to see a similar revamp soon to see the cost of building their cars drop.


All future VAG cars will use the same platform design that will be lenghted/widened accordingly to suit the class of vehicle. This vastly reduces costs involved in devloping a chassis for each class - hopefully this reflects in their cars!


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## Paintmaster1982

looks like a mk6.5 not a 7

Pretty much what they did from mk5 to 6. Seriously dissapointed. But then it's only a golf.

I think vag need to have a serious think about thier style as they have much more competition these days from the likes of KIA and Hyundia. No doubt these will sell like hot cakes but at the same time it would put me off buying one.

At the end of the day i know nothing about syling cars and could be completely wrong but then at the same time i am a member of the public they are tryings to sell their product to so it matters in a way.


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## JA0395

-R- said:


> Looks OK to me, looking forward to an R version !, seems they have finally changed the RNS510 Radio too.


Definitely! Should look a lot more beefier than the current version!


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## possul

Just a face lifted model as far as I know
As paint master says, styling, same thing with them over again each time a new comes out


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## j3ggo

I want one.


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## VW Golf-Fan

It looks ok-ish, it's not stunning but you can certainly tell it's a Golf.

I don't like how they've implemented an electronic handbrake.....ok they're 'moving with the times' but it's not to everyones tastes.

Until I see one in the flesh I can't say I'm overly impressed by it, it's nothing to get excited over. The MK6 is a LOT better looking, it's the best looking generation of Golf they ever made & I think VW were totally wrong to bring out the MK7 way too prematurely.


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## dave955

I think the big companies need to watch out for Kia and Hyundai. When you look how much the have come on in a very small amount of time


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## bigmc

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz again. Same old same old from VW.


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## VW Golf-Fan

Yes, Hyundai & Kia I think have had a bit of a bashing from consumers & other car marques in the past but now they seem to be popular amongst drivers.

The bashing they had I think looking back with hyndsight was slightly unfair because they never got a chance to prove themselves to their actual potential thus I now think is overridden by the release of new & fresh models.

Having driven a lot of Hyundai's & different models at that I can say that I do think they are decent motors....but would I buy one? No. That's simply because of the 'badge', yes it's badge snobbery but I'm like that - I'd certainly recommend them but personally I could never 'own' one simply because of the name as I say.


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## xJay1337

The Eastern Rim cars will never be as nice to drive or as nice in terms of build quality, durability of components etc, as a European car.
same goes for Americans. The best cars are nearly always European...



-R- said:


> Looks OK to me, looking forward to an R version !, seems they have finally changed the RNS510 Radio too.


Yeah same.
I will always be a VW man so.. seems okay to me. No doubt with a few OEM+ style modifications it will look pretty awesome.


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## Grizzle

Yawwwwn, dull, boring, overpriced, terrible customer service.....

Roll on Hyundai for me.


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## Grizzle

xJay1337 said:


> The Eastern Rim cars will never be as nice to drive or as nice in terms of build quality, durability of components etc, as a European car.
> same goes for Americans. The best cars are nearly always European...


I think you are mistaken mate, VAG build quality has taken a turn for the worse, the components are poor quality and with the recent i30 release VW chief was asking why his cars arent as well made as the new i30.


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## dave955

Must admit. The new Kia cee'd. Is looking tempting for when I replace the family car. Looks good. Good build quality and 7 year warranty


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## Maggi200

Am I being thick. What's different?


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## xJay1337

Grizzle said:


> I think you are mistaken mate, VAG build quality has taken a turn for the worse, the components are poor quality and with the recent i30 release VW chief was asking why his cars arent as well made as the new i30.


Can't speak of the new i30 but I had the i20 for 2 weeks as a courtesy car (and being truthful as a honest motor it's not bad, only a 1.2 but felt so happy-go-lucky although at the same time had horrible steering and a weird clutch) and it wasn't as well made inside as my Mk5 Golf which has done 133k now. And that's not bias!!

If you want true interior quality try a lexus or the new Audis.

The new audi's are like... holy... I sat in one in a dealer and nearly fell asleep it was so comfortable. Although the rising speakers soon woke me up


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## possul

Ya fell off then VW band wagon grizzle?


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## pooma

Meh!!
Pretty much all I can say, looks like an a3 and a mk6 bumped uglies and this is the love child.


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## andy665

Definitely not just a facelifted Mk6, it rides on the new Volkswagen Group MQB platform that will underpin a huge range of models, massively flexible platform that allows for different widths and wheelbases

Styling a steady evolution, when the Golf is as important as it is to VW they'd be mad to do anything too risky.

Like the C pillar treatment, brings back what they did with the Mk4 in terms of the rear door shut lines mirroring the rear bumper angle


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## Skodaw

Grizzle said:


> I think you are mistaken mate, VAG build quality has taken a turn for the worse, the components are poor quality and with the recent i30 release VW chief was asking why his cars arent as well made as the new i30.


This is exactly why they've had to bring the mk7 so soon after the mk6.

Mk6 was meant to reduce build costs against mk5 without losing quality- it didn't work!!

Main reason for mk7 is to switch to completely new platform based on VAG MQB chassis, which is the basis for mk7 golf, new a3, new octavia, new Toledo et all.


Autocar said:


> Unlike its direct predecessor, which was essentially a heavily facelifted verson of the fifth-generation Golf, this new model has been re-engineered from the ground up.





autocar said:


> Behind the evolutionary appearance of the new Golf is a revolutionary new platform known internally as the MQB ('modularen querbau', or 'modular transverse'). The highly adaptable structure, which is set to underpin more than half of VW's models by the middle of the decade, makes use of a higher percentage of hot-formed high-strength steel than its predecessor, the PQ35 platform, leading to a 37kg reduction in weight for the platform alone.*
> 
> This, in combination with other weight-saving measures, including a 40kg reduction in certain engines, 26kg reduction in the chassis and 6kg reduction in the electrical architecture, sees the new Golf tip the scales at up to 109kg less than the fifth-generation model introduced in 2008. The claimed kerb weight of the most basic new model is just 1050kg.
> 
> The Mk7 Golf will be offered with a range of transversely mounted four-cylinder petrol and diesel engines, which ultimately could stretch to 12 powerplants once all variants are launched.
> 
> All will come as standard with automatic stop-start and brake energy recuperation systems. Engineering refinements and efficiency gains produce claimed reductions in CO2 emissions of up to 23 per cent.*
> 
> The model in which enthusiasts will be especially interested is the Golf GTI, which will be launched late next year alongside a more powerful*Golf R. Both will forgo their current turbocharged 2.0-litre powerplants from Volkswagen's EA113 engine family for more contemporary EA888 units developed in partnership with Audi. In the new GTI, which is set to be previewed in concept form at the Paris show, it is claimed to produce 222bhp, with the R receiving a more heavily tuned version delivering 276bhp.


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## G.P

maggi133 said:


> Am I being thick. What's different?


The front door windows are a funny shape & the wing mirrors may now be to far back, can't believe you didn't notice. .


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## SteveTDCi

Hmmm I quite like it. It's still a golf but looks a little more mature. Not sure the new i30 is on par with the golf yet, we had one on hire and some parts were still cheap feeling, the x35was even worse.


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## robertdon777

See they have gone back to the mk5 style climate controls with a separate temp display.


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## SteveTDCi

They must have a stack of those controls, even skoda used them on the previous Octavia, I guess the new Octavia will have them too. I'm thinking the new Leon will be the best looking out of the 3 vag cars now.


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## robertdon777

Yeah I love how they recycle parts and pretend they are new. The mk8 will have the mo6 style ones back on it.

It's like the new 3 series, no rear led lights to start, I'm sure the e90 had led rears and some e46's. And when they advertise the e90 with dual zone climate like its something new on a 3 series, erm it was on the e36 and the they dropped it on the e46 to make e90 owners feel they were getting something extra.

Car makers are running out of ideas.


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## VW STEVE.

God i hope they don't start up using hearing aid biege leather again!!!!!!!!. Some of the first MK5 GTI's came with this option & they looked a mess.


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## robertdon777

Oooh. I like that beige leather with a black exterior, maybe not on a gti though.


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## LittleMissTracy

The front looks a lot like the Passat, Brother has a company Passat and I like it.
Looks ok, but after owning an Audi, I said I'd never have a car from VW group again.
But it's not unpleasing to the eye I suppose


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## Guest

I think it looks good, it's what VW do, people will buy it like they always have because it looks familiar and safe, it's like Porsche with the 911 why change something that's right.

As for the Hyundai/Kia debate well one of my reps has a new Hyundai and tbh the best thing about it is the warranty, the rest just isn't that good, it's been in 3 times with various issues and it rattle like nothing I have driven before !, I feel it will be needing the extra warranty !.

Sorry that this will sound pompus but all I think when I see one on the road Is they couldn't quite afford a proper branded car, its a bit like buying a skoda in the old days (still true to some extent).


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## 182_Blue

When is it released ?


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## luke123

I really like it, Not much of a fan of the mk5. MK6 was better but this luuks like an updated mk4 I think when they bring out a GTI it will be amazing


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## SteveTDCi

-R- said:


> When is it released ?


Launched at the Paris motorshow and available from November i think, there is limited stock of the old model and production stops very soon.


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## 182_Blue

SteveTDCi said:


> Launched at the Paris motorshow and available from November i think, there is limited stock of the old model and production stops very soon.


Thanks, I guess the GTI and R will be later next year ?


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## Gruffs

Looks OK.

Yours will be lost in a sea of similar White, through metallic grey to Black, Monotone company car parks.

The Golf isn't bought by people who care what they drive. It's bought by people who care what brand they buy.


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## xJay1337

robertdon777 said:


> Yeah I love how they recycle parts and pretend they are new. The mk8 will have the mo6 style ones back on it.
> 
> It's like the new 3 series, *no rear led lights to start,* I'm sure the e90 had led rears and some e46's. And when they advertise the e90 with dual zone climate like its something new on a 3 series, erm it was on the e36 and the they dropped it on the e46 to make e90 owners feel they were getting something extra.
> 
> Car makers are running out of ideas.


What is the fixation with LED rear lights?
Although they will almost certainly be an option. As they are on a Mk6 (and need to be specced IMO as they look so good and retrofit is expensive due to loom changes)


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## Jace

I like it, mainly because it will affect the price of mk6's & about to buy a GTI version.

I had a mk4 Gti & the quality was great, tried a mk5 & it was more plastic than an old Datsun,so I bought a Leon FR, then last year I had mk6 GT for 6mth & it was great, very well put together like the mk4

A few photoshopped styled versions flying about already.


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## 182_Blue

Gruffs said:


> The Golf isn't bought by people who care what they drive. It's bought by people who care what brand they buy.


When I bought my edition 30 I bought it for many reasons not just the brand appeal.


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## Trip tdi

Looks smart, very similar to the mk6 Golf, though in this design the car looks sportier with the wider alloys plus the sloping dash as well, I like it.

Honestly looks the same as the MK6 golf, but the rear end is more shaped up and curvy.


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## PugIain

Looks more Audi-ish in places to me.
Looks *quite* attractive in the pics but what would a small wheeled base model look like with the bulbous body?


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## Grizzle

possul said:


> Ya fell off then VW band wagon grizzle?


Was never on the VW "band wagon" in the first place.

i didnt go all BBS and airbags on yer bad self.


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## CraigQQ

if I passed it on the road I'd assume it was a mk6...


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## Gruffs

-R- said:


> When I bought my edition 30 I bought it for many reasons not just the brand appeal.


Niche Model.

Doesn't count :thumb::thumb:


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## 182_Blue

Gruffs said:


> Niche Model.
> 
> Doesn't count :thumb::thumb:


Ahh, you should have said that then


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## Gruffs

I thought that you not buying a car for the badge would have meant you knew that. 

Last time I credit you with any nouse!!!!


:thumb::thumb:


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## robertdon777

xJay1337 said:


> What is the fixation with LED rear lights?
> Although they will almost certainly be an option. As they are on a Mk6 (and need to be specced IMO as they look so good and retrofit is expensive due to loom changes)


No fixation, it was an example of how another manufacturer (BMW) tries to sell you old technology as new tech when they release their new models.

My original comment was talking about how VW have gone back to mk5 style climate panels on the new mk7 with separate lcd temp displays, no doubt the mk8 will use the rotary numbers like the mk6.

I didn't mean to refer to LED tail lights on any VW if they do or don't have them.


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## Dave11

I think I will grow on me. Didn't like the MK6 at first but now I have a GTi Edition 35.


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## xJay1337

robertdon777 said:


> No fixation, it was an example of how another manufacturer (BMW) tries to sell you old technology as new tech when they release their new models.
> 
> My original comment was talking about how VW have gone back to mk5 style climate panels on the new mk7 with separate lcd temp displays, no doubt the mk8 will use the rotary numbers like the mk6.
> 
> I didn't mean to refer to LED tail lights on any VW if they do or don't have them.


Ah, my misunderstanding bud. :thumb:


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## DW58

Well, I like it - I'll be looking for delivery around this time next year, so placing my order in June.


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## VenomUK

Another easy day at the office then.....tracing paper at hand! Lazy ****s!! Never really a fan of the Golf, just too plain Jane. At least the Audi people try a little harder.


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## DW58

It would be a shame if we all liked the same cars - after all if we all bought VAG products then who would buy the really boring cars from the like of Vauxhall, Ford, Nissan, Toyota, Volvo, Renault etc.? 

  



















(Ducks, runs, dives for cover)


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## CraigQQ

still a nice enough car.. just not too different styling.. bit like the 911 through the years..

maybe its a case of "not broke.. don't fix it" 

but IMO you don't get value for money at VW any more.. they used to justify the overpriced cars by build quality... a build quality that IMO they aren't above a lot of the competition these days...


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## Modmedia

JA0395 said:


> Well here it is guys, first official pictures,* I'm quite liking the lower stance*, front and interior design. But feel the rear is a bit if a let down. Let me know what you think!


I bet you all the money I have it will come out sitting like a boat. They always do this in the "press pictures" then it comes out with a stance that rivals an X5.


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## VW STEVE.

The Golf isn't bought by people who care what they drive. It's bought by people who care what brand they buy. 
............what a load of ********. I bought my ED30 because it's one of the best hot hatches out there.Not the fastest i know but def one of the best.


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## Trip tdi

CraigQQ said:


> still a nice enough car.. just not too different styling.. bit like the 911 through the years..
> 
> maybe its a case of "not broke.. don't fix it"
> 
> but IMO you don't get value for money at VW any more.. they used to justify the overpriced cars by build quality... a build quality that IMO they aren't above a lot of the competition these days...


That's very true, back in the days and even now, VW had a reputation of solid build quality, same as the Mercs, but new cars on the market have very similar build quality as the new VW'S.

Kia have moved up plus Citroen as well, offering great warranty packages plus the styling is more advanced than they were back in the days, they have really moved up in the motor trade.

I do like the VW gearboxes plus the sharp brakes as well, they are reliable but they are expensive cars when you add extra options.


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## Hasan1

I like it


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## GolfFanBoy

Looks ok, even I would say I'm a bit disappointed it isn't a bigger design change from the mk6. I'd be thinking about changing cars next summer but I'll have to wait to see what VW do with the prices this time round. The money required to buy even a mid-range Golf was getting daft, never mind something like a GTi or R. Don't be surprised to see me driving one though all the same!


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## RisingPower

Booooooooooooorrrring. Even with silly rotiforms.


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## RisingPower

VW STEVE. said:


> The Golf isn't bought by people who care what they drive. It's bought by people who care what brand they buy.
> ............what a load of ********. I bought my ED30 because it's one of the best hot hatches out there.Not the fastest i know but def one of the best.


Define *best*.


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## DW58

RisingPower said:


> Booooooooooooorrrring. Even with silly rotiforms.


Well what a predictable post


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## RisingPower

DW58 said:


> Well what a predictable post


Hey, it's a 4 door eurobox which just looks like every other boring 4 door hatchback, particularly every golf in recent years that have been and gone.

Shall I have one lump of car or two today? In fact, the adverts summed it up, they're bought like groceries.


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## DW58




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## RisingPower

DW58 said:


>


Go on, tell me what made you buy yours, was it that the performance stood out so much from every other car in its category, was it the looks, was it the interior, the handling, you drove every other car in the category and none of them gave you any emotions whatsoever compared to it, or the fact it was a golf and you couldn't see past the name?

Any of those except for the last and i'll get it, otherwise you've just been to a supermarket.


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## CHR15B

I really like it.

Also, I'm glad to see the electronic parking brake has made it onto the Golf chassis. I went from a 2008 Passat with EPB to my current Leon and I really miss it.

The next generation of Leon looks like it doesn't have the EPB ... but as always with the Leon - the facelift model may bring it with other improvements.


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## PugIain

RisingPower said:


> Hey, it's a 4 door eurobox which just looks like every other boring 4 door hatchback, particularly every golf in recent years that have been and gone.
> 
> Shall I have one lump of car or two today? In fact, the adverts summed it up, they're bought like groceries.


Except it's a hatchback and hence isn't a 4 door 
Hatches are 3 or 5!. Saloon cars are 4... or 2. Estates are 5 (unless it's one of those weird 2 door estates I've seen somewhere). Right that' that cleared up 
I agree though, hatchbacks aren't really something to aspire to, they're the lowest on the car ladder. Something better than walking. Surely people should be spaffing over saloons/estates or coupes? . It's like being happy with a Fiesta as a company director car when you can have a Jag XJ .


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## Bigstuff

fat polo:speechles


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## SteveyG

PugIain said:


> It's like being happy with a Fiesta as a company director car when you can have a Jag XJ .


I'd be happy with a little Zetec S and use the spare cash for other stuff! I think you mean something more like a Honda Jazz.


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## VenomUK

How long till one of the drive shafts snap after a remap?


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## VW Golf-Fan

Just found a little more information regarding specs/trims etc of the MK7:

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/volkswagen/golf/hatchback-2013/


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## DW58

That's interesting, looks as though the SE level will have equipment levels equivalent to or even exceeding the current Match spec. Sounds pretty encouraging to me. Unless a "Match" is out by the time I order, looks like it'll be a 1.4TSi 138bhp in SE trim for me with DSG and paddles.


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## VW Golf-Fan

DW58 said:


> That's interesting, looks as though the SE level will have equipment levels equivalent to or even exceeding the current Match spec. Sounds pretty encouraging to me. Unless a "Match" is out by the time I order, looks like it'll be a 1.4TSi 138bhp in SE trim for me with DSG and paddles.


Indeed Rob, indeed.

I don't quite understand why they have dropped the 'Match' trim & brought back the dated 'SE' (ok, the Match was the SE's replacement) but they seem to have jumped back in time in terms of trims?!

Even the entry level 'S' looks to be well equipped & the fact that all trims will now feature a touchscreen is certainly a step up. 

Your next car sounds good - these 1.4 TSI's really are very good, plenty of power considering the size of engine.


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## Trip tdi

VW Golf Fan, have you brought yourself a new mk6 Golf in Red, just judging by your aviator.


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## DW58

I like the sound of the new 1.4TSi as it's got 16 extra bhp over the current one on a considerably lighter car, ought to perform well. From memory, the Mk.6 Match appeared around ten months after the launch of the Mk.6 Golf - I guess we'll just have to wait and see with the Mk.7, but the spec of the Mk.7 SE sounds pretty good.

The essential additions for me on top of the basic SE spec will be as follows:


DSG Box.
Multi function steering wheel with paddles.
2-zone Climate Control (no more standard aircon, it's a pain in the backside in winter).
Bluetooth phone set (hoping this may be standard on Mk.7).


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## j3ggo

RisingPower said:


> Hey, it's a 4 door eurobox which just looks like every other boring 4 door hatchback, particularly every golf in recent years that have been and gone.
> 
> Shall I have one lump of car or two today? In fact, the adverts summed it up, they're bought like groceries.


What's wrong with boring, I think being boring is very positive. I don't like fancy cars. Plain is best.


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## j3ggo

VW STEVE. said:


> God i hope they don't start up using hearing aid biege leather again!!!!!!!!. Some of the first MK5 GTI's came with this option & they looked a mess.


My old bora had a beige interior, I actually really miss it. Hope they do it again, please.


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## VW Golf-Fan

Trip tdi said:


> VW Golf Fan, have you brought yourself a new mk6 Golf in Red, just judging by your aviator.


No, my new MK6 is Black. I just think they look good in Red, infact I nearly bought it in Tornado Red.


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## CoOkIeMoNsTeR

I prefer the Mk6 :tumbleweed:
But the shape is growing on me. Meh, what do I care, I'm not in the market for a family hatch, but even if I was, this had better be a good price compared to a Skoda Rapide, cos that's certainly a better looking car imo. For anyone who hasn't sat in a new i30 or a new cee'd, YOU WILL BE SCARED! They look and feel very european, and the 1.6 CRDi is excellent. VW, Ford, Vauxhall, take note. Your market is being invaded by cheaper cars that used to just be cheap jokes :driver:


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## JBirchy

I love the look of the new one! Especially with those seats in the original post!

Looking forward to seeing the GTI too. Although i love the Mk6 'R', i thought the GTI didn't quite look as nice as the Mk5.

Still great cars though, i'm a big VW fan!


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## j3ggo

wait for new golf or a new bmw 120d? what do you think?


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## VW Golf-Fan

j3ggo said:


> wait for new golf or a new bmw 120d? what do you think?


I'd say Golf because I'm biased! 

I don't like the new 1 Series it looks like a stretched bug.


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## bigmc

j3ggo said:


> wait for new golf or a new bmw 120d? what do you think?


Neither.


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## j3ggo

bigmc said:


> Neither.


why? what should i go for?


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## bigmc

Not one of those, the golf will be a usual golf - dull as dishwater and the 1 series is fugly. New astra is a great drive and as usual the focus is class leading.


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## VW Golf-Fan

A few shots of the GTI (bar the last 3 photos.)

I really don't see much change in this over the MK6 other than the front looks wider & the boot looks 'smoother' somehow.

Still, I like the look of it though.


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## Kerr

It does seem to be the case that the German designers are really running out of ideas.

Many of the recent releases from VW, Audi and BMW haven't really changed too much in appearance.

Obviously every Porsche has been the same since the Beetle too.


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## VW Golf-Fan

Kerr said:


> It does seem to be the case that the German designers are really running out of ideas.
> 
> Many of the recent releases from VW, Audi and BMW haven't really changed too much in appearance.


I know what you mean. Certainly the VW Eos (a fairly unknown existing model) looks just like the new Golf Cabriolet in many ways, it's like they've just given up & thought 'sod it'.

Although saying that, I do like the fronts of all the VW models from (2009 - ) & how they've made them curvier & 'samey' it just identifies them all that bit better in my opinion (although the Golf & Polo fronts do look very similar, more so than any other models!)

Oh, VW have put an official new MK7 section up for the Golf on their website - pricelists still to be added & confirmed.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new/golf-vii/home


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## johanr77

People expecting VW to put out a radically different car to anything they've done before probably expect Aunt Bessie to start sticking cocaine in her yorkshire pudding mix. 

VW evolve a car, they figure out what works and what doesn't then develop the next evolution of the car. The mk7 is on an entirely different platform to the mk6 and while it shares cosmetic similarities (which most cars do with their predecessor) it is an entirely different car, longer, wider, longer wheelbase and lighter. 

If VW had come out with a golf that had suicide doors and a boot opened by lifting the bodyshell off the underpinnings they wouldn't sell any, they have a formula that has worked for ages and they stick to it. People disappointed in that probably don't buy VW's.


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## SteveyG

j3ggo said:


> wait for new golf or a new bmw 120d? what do you think?


1 series if you're a woman.


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## Avanti

johanr77 said:


> People expecting VW to put out a radically different car to anything they've done before probably expect Aunt Bessie to start sticking cocaine in her yorkshire pudding mix.
> 
> VW evolve a car, they figure out what works and what doesn't then develop the next evolution of the car. The mk7 is on an entirely different platform to the mk6 and while it shares cosmetic similarities (which most cars do with their predecessor) it is an entirely different car, longer, wider, longer wheelbase and lighter.
> 
> If VW had come out with a golf that had suicide doors and a boot opened by lifting the bodyshell off the underpinnings they wouldn't sell any, they have a formula that has worked for ages and they stick to it. People disappointed in that probably don't buy VW's.


I agree, I have liked them since the MK1 and favour the none aggressive look which some many competitors have, the car seems to have matured along with the 'regular' purchasers, my next car will be a MK7 although I fear £35k


----------



## DJ X-Ray

nice.like it.


----------



## johanr77

Yeah the options list is the killer when buying a GTI, before you know where you are you've added £5k to the list price and wonder how you managed it. I'm not holding my breath that leather, cruise, DAB and xenons will be standard on the GTI.


----------



## Avanti

johanr77 said:


> Yeah the options list is the killer when buying a GTI, before you know where you are you've added £5k to the list price and wonder how you managed it. I'm not holding my breath that leather, cruise, DAB and xenons will be standard on the GTI.


Leather won't be standard, as they are on about the tartan seats, reports suggests that SE and above models will have adaptive CC as standard and start/stop technology, I suspect DAB is standard.


----------



## DW58

I really like it, but the wheels on the GTi pictured are hideous.


----------



## Avanti

DW58 said:


> I really like it, but the wheels on the GTi pictured are hideous.


I like them, but fear they will be an option that costs plenty, I also like those Pirelli type wheels I have seen on some examples.


----------



## DW58

I'm very conservative when it comes to wheels, can't stand any type of coloured wheels or multi-faceted patterns like that.


----------



## SteveyG

DW58 said:


> I'm very conservative when it comes to wheels, can't stand any type of coloured wheels or multi-faceted patterns like that.


Ha, you are the target audience for a VW Golf :thumb:

The GTI looks quite nice actually, the paint is an ace colour too though it probably won't make it to production.


----------



## Coops

Looks OK, but that's it. Think are better looking cars and better value cars out there though.



VW Golf-Fan said:


> Indeed Rob, indeed.
> 
> I don't quite understand why they have dropped the 'Match' trim & brought back the dated 'SE' (ok, the Match was the SE's replacement) but they seem to have jumped back in time in terms of trims?!


Probably so that they can bring it back as a special edition when sales don't meet expectations?


----------



## DW58

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Indeed Rob, indeed.
> 
> I don't quite understand why they have dropped the 'Match' trim & brought back the dated 'SE' (ok, the Match was the SE's replacement) but they seem to have jumped back in time in terms of trims?!
> 
> Even the entry level 'S' looks to be well equipped & the fact that all trims will now feature a touchscreen is certainly a step up.
> 
> Your next car sounds good - these 1.4 TSI's really are very good, plenty of power considering the size of engine.


Jim - It has to be remembered however that the Mk.6 Golf had been out for around 9-10 months before the Match appeared on the scene. The Mk.7 SE spec looks to be pretty similar to the current Match, it certainly has more kit than the Mk.6 SE.

I'm keen to see the colour range and wheel options.



SteveyG said:


> Ha, you are the target audience for a VW Golf :thumb:


Very possibly, I am conservative - I don't want my car to look Chavvy, I'm 54 years old and not a boy racer so I don't want such hideous black and silver monstrosities. The main reason I buy VW is for qualitiy and reliability, I don't want an Astra or Focus and all the overstated vulgarity attached to them.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Vw quality .... We have one off the road, it had a new windscreen and the glue hasn't set, water has got into something, not sure if it's the ecu but the result is it won't start  not vw's fault but surely someone may have thought of that when designing it.


----------



## rf860

SteveTDCi said:


> Vw quality .... We have one off the road, it had a new windscreen and the glue hasn't set, water has got into something, not sure if it's the ecu but the result is it won't start  not vw's fault but surely someone may have thought of that when designing it.


Agreed. No such thing as VW quality and reliabilty - all the VAG cars we've had in our family have had their fair share of problems and both of the ones i've owned have had major problems.


----------



## yetizone

The Autocar first drive review of the MKVII Golf is now on line, and also an accompanying video review as well..

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...drives/first-drive-review-volkswagen-golf-mk7

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/volkswagen-golf-mk7-video-review

_"Premium downgraders need not worry. You could slide down the market ladder from an Audi A8 to a Golf and have comparable safety and infotainment tech, from multi-collision avoidance as standard, through to the optional eight-inch HD sat-nav with smartphone tethered wifi hotspot, voice command and proximity sensor that automatically raises the menu when your hand approaches the screen.

Should I buy one?

Yes. The Golf is precisely the globally appealing and useful car it needs to be. The desirability stakes have been upped, and it is generally a sharper, more complete package. It is a VW Golf, purified.

Best in class? Ford should be very worried indeed."_


----------



## bigmc

Show a non biased review now. As for Ford being worried there's no way the golf has improved that much to over take the drive of the focus.


----------



## Porkypig

Is it new...?


----------



## TubbyTwo

Usual dull VAG offering I see.


----------



## Dixondmn

yetizone said:


> The Autocar first drive review of the MKVII Golf is now on line, and also an accompanying video review as well..
> 
> http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...drives/first-drive-review-volkswagen-golf-mk7
> 
> http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/volkswagen-golf-mk7-video-review
> 
> _"Premium downgraders need not worry. You could slide down the market ladder from an Audi A8 to a Golf and have comparable safety and infotainment tech, from multi-collision avoidance as standard, through to the optional eight-inch HD sat-nav with smartphone tethered wifi hotspot, voice command and proximity sensor that automatically raises the menu when your hand approaches the screen.
> 
> Should I buy one?
> 
> Yes. The Golf is precisely the globally appealing and useful car it needs to be. The desirability stakes have been upped, and it is generally a sharper, more complete package. It is a VW Golf, purified.
> 
> Best in class? Ford should be very worried indeed."_


And here-in lies the problem, its all very clever and techie, and well thought out, but its doesnt make you FEEL anything.

I wont get into the brand X is better than brand Y thing, but VAG really need to make a car to compete with its competitors in the sense that people want to go out and DRIVE it rather than have a pleasant and agreeable time on their way to a mundane soul destroying day job.


----------



## DW58

bigmc said:


> Show a non biased review now. As for Ford being worried there's no way the golf has improved that much to over take the drive of the focus.


 You just don't know, you haven't driven one. You've got the nerve to make sarcastic comments about bias when you're clearly displaying the same.

I admit to pro-VW bias but if I could buy better for my money I'd consider it, I just don't see a better alternative.

[edit]

Coincidentally, I've just had a call from my local VW dealer to tell me that brochures/pricing is expected for the Mk.7 Golf mid-Oct 2012 and that they would be forwarding copies to me.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Pricing for Golf should be with dealers today


----------



## DW58

I simply fail to understand why the VW Golf should bring so much criticism from DW members. Two things seem to bring the same venom and hatred on DW, the Golf and Apple products. Both have huge loyalty and much innovation.

In the case of the Mk.7 Golf, some posters (often the usual blinkered haters) started posting negativity before full details were even known and no test drive data had been released.

If you're happy with your Ford, Vauxhall, Peugeot then I'm pleased for you. I like some cars and dislike others from many makers, but that doesn't make me feel the need to describe a particular model as "bland', "boring" etc. when in fact I know little about it and have little or no practical experience of the model, espeically if it's one which isn't even released.

Come on guys - no-one's forcing you to like the Golf, but you have to face facts:


It's one of the most popular and successful cars of all time.
It's one of the safest cars on the road - check yours.
Sales figures speak for themselves, it's popular.
VW are innovators, I don't care if you think their cars are bland - they work, and work well!
VW cars aren't perfect, none are.
If you're happy with your Zafira, Focus, Peugeot, Nissan etc. then I'm pleased for you. Now give the VW fans a break and allow us to be happy with the Golf.

The Mk.7 Golf is going to get mixed reviews because of the vast amount of bias out there, much of it because of VW's undoubted success. Accept the positive comments as I accept the negative. In my 35 year driving career I've owned cars from numerous makers, not just VAG (VW, Audi, Fiat, Subaru, Isuzu, Renault), some were excellent, some were terrible - in fact my worst car was an Audi - plus I've driven literally dozens of others from Mini to Mercedes, Fiesta to Range Rover, thus I feel able to judge one against the other. I like the Golf because it's good, not because of brand loyalty.


----------



## bigmc

DW58 said:


> I simply fail to understand why the VW Golf should bring so much criticism from DW members. Two things seem to bring the same venom and hatred on DW, the Golf and Apple products. Both have huge loyalty and much innovation.
> 
> In the case of the Mk.7 Golf, some posters (often the usual blinkered haters) started posting negativity before full details were even known and no test drive data had been released.
> 
> If you're happy with your Ford, Vauxhall, Peugeot then I'm pleased for you. I like some cars and dislike others from many makers, but that doesn't make me feel the need to describe a particular model as "bland', "boring" etc. when in fact I know little about it and have little or no practical experience of the model, espeically if it's one which isn't even released.
> 
> Come on guys - no-one's forcing you to like the Golf, but you have to face facts:
> 
> 
> It's one of the most popular and successful cars of all time. A title now held by the Ford Focus
> It's one of the safest cars on the road - check yours. Renaults are and have been nearly all 5* for about 10 years
> Sales figures speak for themselves, it's popular.
> VW are innovators, I don't care if you think their cars are bland - they work, and work well!
> VW cars aren't perfect, none are.
> If you're happy with your Zafira, Focus, Peugeot, Nissan etc. then I'm pleased for you. Now give the VW fans a break and allow us to be happy with the Golf.


The fact you've chosen to compare them to apple is proof that the majority of people who do buy them (and apple products) are rose tinted glasses wearing fan boys. The perceived reliability, which is a big myth gets banded around by the owners. The build quality, again is equalled or bettered by it's rivals now, again banded round as a selling point by owners.
I am happy with my Focus, it's the best driving and handling car in it's class and has been since 1998, I'm also happy with my Mazda 6, could have gone for a passat but it was completely soulless and uninspiring, the mazda looks good, drives well and hasn't put a foot wrong in a couple of years.
By all means be happy with the golf but don't make out it's the greatest car in history, perfectly reliable and built like a tank.


----------



## Steve Burnett

BORING! Like most of the VW's.
They think they are selling a premium product but the build quality and durability are very poor in my experiance.

They will however sell loads of them, all day every day.


----------



## DW58

bigmc said:


> The fact you've chosen to compare them to apple is proof that the majority of people who do buy them (and apple products) are rose tinted glasses wearing fan boys.


How sad tht you feel the need for such puerile comments. As I posted earlier in the thread, perhaps I'm just the conservative boring old fart type of owner that VW is aiming at - if so I'm perfectly happy with that. I'm confident that I'm buying well and that millions of buyers agree with me. I've driven most of the Golf's competitors as hire cars - perhaps the top of the range models are more impressive, but none of the mid-range ones has impressed.

Almost forgot - do you still think the Golf GTi and R models are boring, have you actually got the first hand experience to be so judgemental?

BTW - it's odd how your DW Garage doesn't correspond to either of the cars you have stated that you own in your last post. Never mind, all sound pretty boring to me - I'm happy with my bland and boring Golf, and I'm equally happy that I'll be driving an even better one next year


----------



## SteveTDCi

I think it depends on what you want from a car, for me I like something thats slightly different. I don't care what the press say, I'm the one driving. At the moment I drive a Leon Cupra, for me its far better than the Golf and the A3, both of which i've owned.

I wouldn't buy a Golf personally as although they are a very good, safe, middle of the road car I don't really like them. However I do use them at work in that i choose to run them as a fleet car, these replaced the Ford Focus which from 2008 onwards became a complete piece of junk. They are unreliable and not that fuel efficient, how the Mk3 is i don't know, other than the dash looks a mess. The Mk1 Focus was brilliant and i'm currently looking for one as a third car.

You can start to throw the koreans into the mix but to be honest these are no better than the Golf, yes they have longer warranties but they are limited and are only appealing if you intend to keep the car for 5 years +

If you want a car that looks good and has soul get an Alfa, if you beleive the press then they are dreadfull cars but if you ask the owners, people that live with them they will tell you a different storey. I'm looking for a replacement for the Leon but at the minute I cannot find anything i would replace it with, well i could but i'm not prepared to spend that kind of money. 

So yes the new Golf will sell, and for various different reasons, I will add them to our fleet, along with the new Leon and the Octavia, i do know from a mini review people will pick the Golf because its a Golf and people buy into the brands image, whether its justified only owners that spend there own money can tell us that.


----------



## bigmc

DW58 said:


> How sad tht you feel the need for such puerile comments. As I posted earlier in the thread, perhaps I'm just the conservative boring old fart type of owner that VW is aiming at - if so I'm perfectly happy with that. I'm confident that I'm buying well and that millions of buyers agree with me. I've driven most of the Golf's competitors as hire cars - perhaps the top of the range models are more impressive, but none of the mid-range ones has impressed.
> 
> Almost forgot - do you still think the Golf GTi and R models are boring, have you actually got the first hand experience to be so judgemental?
> 
> BTW - it's odd how your DW Garage doesn't correspond to either of the cars you have stated that you own in your last post. Never mind, all sound pretty boring to me - I'm happy with my bland and boring Golf, and I'm equally happy that I'll be driving an even better one next year


Yes I do think the gti is boring and yes I do have first hand experience. Slap my wrists for not updating my garage then.... How can having the best chassis in class result in a boring car? You stick to your bland unimaginative golf if that's your style.


----------



## johanr77

Had 2 mk1 Focus which I quite liked, the mk2 was a bit bland so I dodged that and while the mk3 looks a lot better than the mk2 the interior looks like someone loaded a bazooka with buttons and screens and fired it at the dashboard. The mk3 isn't that much fun to drive either, nothing like as chuckable as the mk1 was. 

I have my reasons for buying a VW over a Ford the last two times I changed cars and simply it was the VW felt more solid. Granted the VW cost more, cost more to service but the engine is better, I think the mk6 in comparison to a mk2 focus is a better drive. 

I've test driven a mk3 focus and I just don't like it, maybe I will when I have a shot of the ST but I don't like the styling. The mk7 isn't exciting to look at but at the same time I don't look at it and think I don't like it which is how I feel when I see the Focus, Megane, Leon and Cee'd. 

I won't buy a mk7 purely because I've had a mk5 and 6 but because I've had a go of the comparable cars from other manufacturers like I always do and go for the car I prefer to drive, look at and live with.


----------



## derbigofast

rf860 said:


> VW's and Audi's are becoming pretty much the same car! The new Jetta looks like an a4 from the rear


well technically they are the same cars with slightly different bodies and the new golfs not too shabby at all


----------



## Avanti

MK 7 PRICE LIST


----------



## Dixondmn

Seems in line with the market for this segment, but imo all small family hatchbacks are over priced when new.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Whilst I have never understood why the Golf is & has always been referred to as 'boring' (particularly by critics), I really like them - hence buying a brand new one just 3 months ago.

For me, my style is conservative just like the Golfs image & that is one of the many reasons why I bought it. Ok, I know it's no supercar but in my opinion it offers a lot i.e. quality build, strong residual values, fast (engine dependant to an extent) & reliable.

There is clearly a market out there for them & as long as people are buying them then it wont cause VW to stop/slow down production on the Golf - why would it, after all it's their best selling model.

As for MK7, well let's just hold our horses & cast a formal opinion on it once it is actually on the road & been test driven etc.


----------



## SteveTDCi

I've just picked up this weeks autocar and looked at the pictures of the mk7, at first I thought it was a mk6 then realised it wasn't as the mk6 dowsn't have a polo front end.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

SteveTDCi said:


> I've just picked up this weeks autocar and looked at the pictures of the mk7, at first I thought it was a mk6 then realised it wasn't as the mk6 dowsn't have a polo front end.


Steve, I think the MK6 Golf & new shape Polo *do* have the same front end just like most of the Vag range from 2009-2010 onwards.


----------



## DW58

Presumably it's intentional along with the sharp edge down the sides/upper passenger doors.

Must pick up a copy tomorrow.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Looks like this is how many Golf units they've sold worldwide.


----------



## DW58

Thanks Jim - awaits more asinine comments from the usual suspects.


----------



## Dixondmn

I like the chrome trim inside the headlights, but as a product it sells on misconceptions. I long term hired a mk 5 and owned mk 6 didn't keep the mk 6 very long.
One thing is for sure though, if driven correctly the 2.0D will see 65mpg.


----------



## rf860

Must say although it is still a very bland design in comparison to the competition, i think it looks much better than the mk6. Certainly wouldn't turn down a 2.0tdi GT


----------



## SteveTDCi

White is now a £200 option, nice move VW


----------



## JA0395

SteveTDCi said:


> White is now a £200 option, nice move VW


Hahaha that made me laugh, is that for the pearl effect one or standard?


----------



## DW58

It's for Pearl Effect - £450 on the Mk.6


----------



## SteveTDCi

Nope, its for Candy White and the other version of Solid White. They are blaming the price of paint .... they should go to Wickes, they always have an offer on


----------



## DW58

Heck - why should white cost more?


----------



## SteveTDCi

well the cost of materials .... or the fact that its a popular colour and they can make more money


----------



## Coops

SteveTDCi said:


> Nope, its for Candy White and the other version of Solid White. They are blaming the price of paint .... they should go to Wickes, they always have an offer on


I do recall speaking to someone in the trade last year and certainly the availability of paint had been compromised due to the Japanese earthquake. Apparently the paint pigments are sourced from Japan and the earthquake had affected plants and therefore supply.

So either there is still supply issues or the manufacturers are simply jumping on the bandwagon! One of the reasons I had a Candy White Skoda was because it was a no-cost option.


----------



## TubbyTwo

So you now have to pay for recession white lol, all those aviator wearing style icons better dig deep then.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Coops said:


> I do recall speaking to someone in the trade last year and certainly the availability of paint had been compromised due to the Japanese earthquake. Apparently the paint pigments are sourced from Japan and the earthquake had affected plants and therefore supply.
> 
> So either there is still supply issues or the manufacturers are simply jumping on the bandwagon! One of the reasons I had a Candy White Skoda was because it was a no-cost option.


Yep, and the Powerstation that went pop in Japan also had an impact on certain electrical componets from Bosch IRC.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Surprised that they're now charging for White.

Does that mean we'll be left with all the crappy colours that no-one wants for the no cost option?!


----------



## SteveTDCi

Yes all 3 of them ..... Or is it 2 ?


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

There was 3 with MK6 - Candy White, Tornado Red & Flat Black.


----------



## DW58

I wish they (i.e. VW) would get their fingers out and release the brochure so that the colour range, wheels and full spec are available as the price list issued last week doesn't reveal very much and some things are a tad vague.


----------



## SteveTDCi

I've just ordered my first Mk7 Golf ... Pacific Blue 1.6 TDi SE Hatch 

Along with 2 Golf Estates and a VW Caravelle SE


----------



## DW58

Well done Steve - I'll be joining the Mk.7 queue in June 2013.

I'll be going for a 1.4TSi 5-door with DSG, Paddles and 2-zone climate control. Undecided on colour so far - my one complaint about VW is their lack of imagination when it comes to their colour range.


----------



## SteveTDCi

I was looking at adding the 1.4 Petrol to the list but you can only get the cylinder deactivation on the GT model. The lease rates are pretty good on these too, Most of our Golfs are either Silver or Black so VW probably feel they don't need to be imaginative with them  I've got a provisional delivery of mid feb on this, not bad considering the GOlf estates are late feb and mid march (1 black 1 silver !!)


----------



## DW58

I seriously don't want the cylinder deactivation, so it doesn't bother me. The Mk.7s are pretty well specced in comparison to the Mk.6. The SE seems to have just about everything I've got on my Mk.6 Match except the parking sensors which irritate rather than assist most of the time. I'd much rather have the reversing camera.


----------



## Avanti

DW58 said:


> Well done Steve - I'll be joining the Mk.7 queue in June 2013.
> 
> I'll be going for a 1.4TSi 5-door with DSG, Paddles and 2-zone climate control. Undecided on colour so far - my one complaint about VW is their lack of imagination when it comes to their colour range.


I'm already eager to see the GTI price, won't be having the leather seats at £2k though


----------



## DW58

I totally agree - I think VW charge too much for leather, especially in comparison to other VAG models. My Mother had leather on her last Golf and IMO it wasn't even of particularly good quality.


----------



## SteveTDCi

I had leather in my golf and found it cheap to the touch, gave me bad legs and uncomfortable. The heated part was good though. Give me cloth or part leather any day


----------



## DW58

Totally agree - my Mum's Mk.4 GTi wore through on the squabs in about 2.5 years, and her recently departed Mk.5 wasn't much better. The Scottish Bridge of Allan leather I had for ten years in a Renault - yes, shocking isn't it - was of superb quality unlike the horrible Froggie tin box it was in.

I'm very pleased with the seats in my current Mk.6 Match - comfortable, good looking and hard wearing.

One option I'm disappointed not to see in the Mk.7 is the rear two-seat layout which is a no-cost option in my Mum's new Audi A1 1.4TFSi Sport - very comfortable and much more versatile that the Golf's 2:1 split.


----------



## SteveTDCi

I had the seat squab replaced in my golf.


----------



## Dixondmn

DW58 said:


> Totally agree - my Mum's Mk.4 GTi wore through on the squabs in about 2.5 years, and her recently departed Mk.5 wasn't much better. The Scottish Bridge of Allan leather I had for ten years in a Renault - yes, shocking isn't it - was of superb quality unlike the horrible Froggie tin box it was in.
> 
> I'm very pleased with the seats in my current Mk.6 Match - comfortable, good looking and hard wearing.
> 
> One option I'm disappointed not to see in the Mk.7 is the rear two-seat layout which is a no-cost option in my Mum's new Audi A1 1.4TFSi Sport - very comfortable and much more versatile that the Golf's 2:1 split.


why would you want a 2 by 2 configuration in a family hatch?


----------



## DW58

Dixondmn said:


> why would you want a 2 by 2 configuration in a family hatch?


Why not - it's my car, surely I should be able to choose the options I want.


----------



## Dixondmn

DW58 said:


> Why not - it's my car, surely I should be able to choose the options I want.


Evidently not in VW's opinion... for the MK7 at least


----------



## DW58

But that was exactly the point I was making - Audi have introduced this option with the A1 and I think new A3, and I had hoped it would also be offered on the Mk.7 Golf. It gives a rear seating arrangement similar to the Volvo C30 which I really like.


----------



## rf860

I think it's because it's more 'upmarket' to have a two seat arrangement in the back and the golf is kinda a run of the mill car whereas the audi is seen as prestigious.


----------



## DW58

You may have a point, but of course there are "up market" Golf models. It's something I'm clearly going to have to do without, but it pisses me off a bit.

I don't have three grizzling brats to accommodate in the back so it would have been nice to have it configured how I want it.


----------



## RisingPower

What "up market" golfs are there?

You couldn't exactly confuse them with an rs6 or s8 can you?


----------



## RisingPower

I also have no idea where being up market comes into it, doesn't the scirocco have two rear seats only?

Is it not the golf is a family hatch?


----------



## SteveTDCi

Rocco only has 2 seats as do the early passat cc's having said that it's a trend some of the posher cars started. I'm sure the merc cls was a 4 seater. It does seem a bit odd making a 4 seat golf - other than the convertible but I'm not sure many people would travel 5 up in a golf for a long time. I guess it's like Porsche building a 3 seat Boxster.


----------



## RisingPower

SteveTDCi said:


> Rocco only has 2 seats as do the early passat cc's having said that it's a trend some of the posher cars started. I'm sure the merc cls was a 4 seater. It does seem a bit odd making a 4 seat golf - other than the convertible but I'm not sure many people would travel 5 up in a golf for a long time. I guess it's like Porsche building a 3 seat Boxster.


I think it's more down to it being stylish and the kind of car that people aren't fussed about losing a rear seat in.

I also think it's been around a lot longer than the cls and i'm not sure it started out in "posher" cars either.

I'd have thought a mid sized family hatchback, would be the kind of car that would be used for 5 people on a fairly often basis.

Now, a scirocco on the other hand, how easily are you going to get kids in the back? 

Complaining about a family hatchback not coming in a 4 seat combination seems ludicrous to me, it's simply not the general market for it.


----------



## DW58

I made a perfectly innocent comment about the fancying the no-cost two-seat option as offered on some Audis including the A1 and I don't see why the hell I should have to justify this to anyone, especially our resident sh!t-stirring Japanese hairdresser's car driver.


----------



## RisingPower

DW58 said:


> I made a perfectly innocent comment about the fancying the no-cost two-seat option as offered on some Audis including the A1 and I don't see why the hell I should have to justify this to anyone, especially our resident sh!t-stirring Japanese hairdresser's car driver.


Wow, an impressively intelligent rebut :thumb:

I do like how much of a family hatchback an a1 is, also, how posh it is.

I guess a bit of common sense and thought doesn't really come into anything.


----------



## Jace

RisingPower said:


> Now, a scirocco on the other hand, how easily are you going to get kids in the back?


It's roomier than you'd think from looking from the outside.

The phaeton was offered with the option of individual rear seats, not that it mattered as they sell two parts of fa anyway.


----------



## Dixondmn

The 2+2 config was a standard config on the Focus ST-3, but not the ST or the ST-2.

I believe it originated with the new era of 4 door coupes. CLS, Passat CC et al, and seems to have bred elsewhere. 
Either way its been dropped as a standard feature on the CC, and personally I wouldn't buy a car with 4 seats, unless we're talking exotics (which isn't going to happen any time soon.)


----------



## insanejim69

TBH The Golfs has never appealed to me, well apart from the niche GTi 30 and 35 etc and the R versions. But I do get why people would buy one. I know a fair few people who are on their 4/5th Golf ina row and they admit they wouldn't change. Mostly because the VW service centre in Aberdeen is very good and helpful (compared to some other manufacturer dealers) and also the fact that their cars haven't let them down, so they see the philosophy of "it never let me down so why change" . Which I totally agree with, I had my Astra VXR for 3 year and it never once missed a single beat, changed it for an Insignia Turbo and jesus christ no end but problems with it. 

Personally I'd never use a 2+2 config, hell I harly even use more than 2 seats anyway :lol:, but now a days car manufacturers have to let the buyers decide what they want in a car, and I think as DW58 says, they really should have had the 2+2 as an option. Let the buyer decide if he/she wants it or not. Ok its not to everyones taste, but jesus the world would be boring if we all liked the same thing.

James


----------



## RisingPower

Jace said:


> It's roomier than you'd think from looking from the outside.
> 
> The phaeton was offered with the option of individual rear seats, not that it mattered as they sell two parts of fa anyway.


Hmm, but getting kids in through the 3 doors would be a pain no right? Especially with child seats?

It's imho less of a family hatch than a 5dr golf.


----------



## RisingPower

insanejim69 said:


> TBH The Golfs has never appealed to me, well apart from the niche GTi 30 and 35 etc and the R versions. But I do get why people would buy one. I know a fair few people who are on their 4/5th Golf ina row and they admit they wouldn't change. Mostly because the VW service centre in Aberdeen is very good and helpful (compared to some other manufacturer dealers) and also the fact that their cars haven't let them down, so they see the philosophy of "it never let me down so why change" . Which I totally agree with, I had my Astra VXR for 3 year and it never once missed a single beat, changed it for an Insignia Turbo and jesus christ no end but problems with it.
> 
> Personally I'd never use a 2+2 config, hell I harly even use more than 2 seats anyway :lol:, but now a days car manufacturers have to let the buyers decide what they want in a car, and I think as DW58 says, they really should have had the 2+2 as an option. Let the buyer decide if he/she wants it or not. Ok its not to everyones taste, but jesus the world would be boring if we all liked the same thing.
> 
> James


It's not about taste, it's about whether there is a market for it or not.

Why the hell would a company spend time and money developing something which had no market? Especially on a mass market existing product which sells well?

I want an m3 with pink fuzzy seats, an ejector seat and 2000 cup holders.


----------



## insanejim69

TBH its not always about a market with the VAG cars. they do a 2=2 in the A1 etc etc etc ..... so one of those seat benches etc must match the Golfs dimensions giving they are all based on the same platform now. So it wouyld be a simple case of fit at the factory. thus opening an option to people who want that. I personally think a 2+2 option in a 5 door golf would be handy if you have only 1 child (which most people do these days, not including social rejects with 8 kids)

But thank you for coming across very abusive in your post. :thumb: I stated my opinion but obviously you must think only 1 opinion counts, = yours !!

James


----------



## totters

The golf's evolved on the inside! But yawn still the same on the outside needles to say still be a top car and hold good value


----------



## RisingPower

insanejim69 said:


> TBH its not always about a market with the VAG cars. they do a 2=2 in the A1 etc etc etc ..... so one of those seat benches etc must match the Golfs dimensions giving they are all based on the same platform now. So it wouyld be a simple case of fit at the factory. thus opening an option to people who want that. I personally think a 2+2 option in a 5 door golf would be handy if you have only 1 child (which most people do these days, not including social rejects with 8 kids)
> 
> But thank you for coming across very abusive in your post. :thumb: I stated my opinion but obviously you must think only 1 opinion counts, = yours !!
> 
> James


Abusive? :lol::lol::lol:

The vast majority of parents only have one child?

If it's not about market share, why sell the golf in the first place? In fact, why not customise every car they make to each specific customers request and don't charge them anything.

I really can't think of many vw which are not about market proliferation, possibly the phaeton, but what else?

Quite simply, if there was a market for a golf which had been turned into a 2+2, why is it not in production?


----------



## insanejim69

Keep commenting and people will keep hating.  

I thank you greatfully for the comment though 

Many thanks

James


----------



## RisingPower

insanejim69 said:


> Keep commenting and people will keep hating.
> 
> I thank you greatfully for the comment though
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> James


I don't post on the forums for gratification from other users from who knows where, I find intelligent debates that actually have some basis like the one Jace and Dixon have started interesting.


----------



## PugIain

insanejim69 said:


> Keep commenting and people will keep hating.


You can't hate RP. He looks like Dobby from Harry Potter. In a Datsun


----------



## RisingPower

PugIain said:


> You can't hate RP. He looks like Dobby from Harry Potter. In a Datsun.


Hey, i'm more like legolas from lotr, fecker


----------



## PugIain

RisingPower said:


> Hey, i'm more like legolas from lotr, fecker


Haha nice, randomly my mate calls me Elrond!


----------



## RisingPower

PugIain said:


> Haha nice, randomly my mate calls me Elrond!


Bit old for me, legolas is far better


----------



## SteveTDCi

If I could be arsed I'd google them cause I ain't got a bloody clue who you are on about


----------



## RisingPower

SteveTDCi said:


> If I could be arsed I'd google them cause I ain't got a bloody clue who you are on about


Good gawd man, you been living in a cave for the 21st century?


----------



## SteveTDCi

Quite possibly  I've never watched a Harry potter film or have a clue about the rest


----------



## DW58

The Mk.7 Golf has it's launch at my local VW dealer this weekend - I have a test drive booked on a 1.4TSi SE DSG on Friday morning.


----------



## xJay1337

Having spent 20 minutes with one the other day, It's well built, seem comfortable and on the decent spec ones, looks great. I wouldn't get the under 120ps though as multi-link rear suspension does make a difference...


----------



## SteveTDCi

I had a look on Saturday, cooks have a petrol and diesel. I've got to be honest it looks really dull. It has a mixture of polo and passat about it. I'll give it a couple of weeks then I'll borrow one for a week


----------



## rf860

Saw one on the M8 the other week, not sure why as it's not released yet? Anyway, i thought it looked really dull, no character whatsoever. Shame as it will be a decent enough car. 

I'd take a Vauxhall Astra anyday over the Golf.


----------



## Avanti

rf860 said:


> Saw one on the M8 the other week, not sure why as it's not released yet? Anyway, i thought it looked really dull, no character whatsoever. Shame as it will be a decent enough car.
> 
> I'd take a Vauxhall Astra anyday over the Golf.


I'm waiting for this one, with the panoramic sunroof


----------



## rf860

Avanti said:


> I'm waiting for this one, with the panoramic sunroof


Looks ok. IMO, the Astra GTC VXR is a far better looking car


----------



## SteveTDCi

I'm sure driving wise it will be good but the mk7 looks so dull, the new Leon looks sharper and the Octavia classier. From the look through the window in what I think was the se model it just looked dull and grey. I'd have a mk6 any day


----------



## Avanti

rf860 said:


> Looks ok. IMO, the Astra GTC VXR is a far better looking car


Yes perhaps, but as I'm spending my hard earned , then I get the last call, MK 7 in Oryx white DSG panoramic sunroof, upholstery seats and folding mirrors :thumb:


----------



## DW58

I don't care whether the Astra ABCXYZ looks better in somebody else's opinion, I like the look of the Mk.7 Golf and I'm buying the car therefore it's my choice just as Avanti says. 

Mk.7 with DSG and Paddles for me, undecided upon colour yet, I'll be placing my order in May/June.


----------



## steview

It's ok the rear quarter in pic 1 reminds me of the mk4 alot


----------



## SteveTDCi

DW58 said:


> I don't care whether the Astra ABCXYZ looks better in somebody else's opinion, I like the look of the Mk.7 Golf and I'm buying the car therefore it's my choice just as Avanti says.
> 
> Mk.7 with DSG and Paddles for me, undecided upon colour yet, I'll be placing my order in May/June.


Seriously have a look at in the metal first, buy it because it drives well not because it's a golf. Better still have a look at the new Leon.


----------



## rf860

SteveTDCi said:


> Seriously have a look at in the metal first, buy it because it drives well not because it's a golf. Better still have a look at the new Leon.


Agreed. Many other manufacturers are offering products that are just as good (if not better - VAG quality not what it once was imo) whilst offering more attractive designs.

The golf is also horrendously over priced for what you get. Even steering wheel controls weren't standard across the range on the mk6! Plastic steering wheels on models above the base spec etc...


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

A few PDI shots of one I found. Think it _may_ be the 'GT' model?


----------



## SteveTDCi

Do you not think it looks like a stumpy passat hatchback with polo headlights ? Whilst I won't deny it will be well built and comfortable it just looks so plain, look at the new Leon or Octavia, the astra gtc shows that average can be good looking.


----------



## DW58

It's a good job we're all different, I think the Astra is hideous along with all Vauxhalls - each to his own.

I haven't signed for anything, nor will I if I don't like it.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

SteveTDCi said:


> Do you not think it looks like a stumpy passat hatchback with polo headlights?


Yes I agree, it does have a combo look of the Passat & Polo - not very Golf like at all IMO.

At this moment in time I'm not keen on the MK7 & I much prefer the MK6 shape. I do think VW made the mistake of stopping MK6 production too early.

As you say it will be a well built car etc, there's no denying that.


----------



## Avanti

VW Golf-Fan said:


> A few PDI shots of one I found. Think it _may_ be the 'GT' model?


Looks like adaptive cruise control really does come as standard


----------



## rf860

Avanti said:


> Looks like adaptive cruise control really does come as standard


How do you know they didn't just pick that option lol?


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Avanti said:


> Looks like adaptive cruise control really does come as standard


I'm going to be honest, I for about a second thought that 'box' thing on the bumper was for an electric Golf & that would be it's charger point!!    :lol: :lol:


----------



## DW58

So that's what that thingy is.


----------



## Avanti

DW58 said:


> So that's what that thingy is.


Yeah, it's a radar sensor, when you are on CC, say you were doing 65mph and a closing up on the vehicle in front, the car would automatically slow down, also in the city above 19mph it reduces the chances of rear end shunts :thumb:


----------



## Avanti

rf860 said:


> How do you know they didn't just pick that option lol?


Cos Se models and above come with it as standard


----------



## SteveTDCi

yes active cruise is standard on the SE and above, its one of the reasons i've picked the SE 1.6TDi as the Golf of choice for our fleet. Our first one (blue) arrives in late feb.


----------



## DW58

*Test drive this morning:*


SE 1.4TSi 122PS 6-speed
GT 2.0TDi 150PS DSG/paddles
Very impressed with both. Superb handling with much improved steering and suspension. Multi-mode engine performance settings (Normal/Sport/Eco/Custom) are very impressive, accessed by touch screen head unit. Car seems roomier - my son and I had much more room between us in the front seats than in our Mk.6, and the interior seems better laid out and of better materials. Seats more comfortable and with slightly improved legroom.

Build quality is very good and I certainly don't think the car looks bland as has been suggested earlier in this thread, but I expect that to be contradicted almost immediately by the usual candidates here on DW.

I'll be placing my order in June/July for delivery in early October - SE 1.4TSi 122PS DSG/paddles.

Watch out for the review coming soon from Jeremy Clarkson, it's very favourable indeed.


----------



## mark328

Dont like new cars!! would rather have a 5 year old car with bigger spec :thumb:


----------



## SteveyG

Avanti said:


> Yeah, it's a radar sensor, when you are on CC, say you were doing 65mph and a closing up on the vehicle in front, the car would automatically slow down, also in the city above 19mph it reduces the chances of rear end shunts :thumb:


I wonder why they made it so visible? On the Mondy it's behind the grille so you can't see it.


----------



## DW58

mark328 said:


> Dont like new cars!! would rather have a 5 year old car with bigger spec :thumb:


Thanks - useful and pertinent to the thread 

In my experience that's when cars start costing serious money - no thanks.


----------



## kh904

DW58 said:


> Thanks - useful and pertinent to the thread
> 
> In my experience that's when cars start costing serious money - no thanks.


Maybe, but they lose serious money in depreciation when new!

I have a 13 year old peugeot that has recently started to cost me money replacing parts (such as Air-con pump, radiator, wheel bearing etc in the last 2 years), while is no means cheap, it still isn't as much money i would have lost in the first few years in depreciation.


----------



## DW58

Over the past thirty years I've normally changed every three years, however I kept two cars longer (Audi A6 Avant and Renault RX4), both cost me a lot by keeping them. With 3 year maintenance contracts and minimum 3 year warranty, I'm very happy with things as they are, plus I get a very safe (Euro NCAP five-* 97% rating) and reliable car. I know it's not for everybody, but it suits me.


----------



## SteveyG

(Off topic)



DW58 said:


> Over the past thirty years I've normally changed every three years, however I kept two cars longer (Audi A6 Avant and Renault RX4), both cost me a lot by keeping them. With 3 year maintenance contracts and minimum 3 year warranty, I'm very happy with things as they are, plus I get a very safe (Euro NCAP five-* 97% rating) and reliable car. I know it's not for everybody, but it suits me.


You must have been unlucky. 5 years isn't old at all, and most last double before costing the kind of money you'd complain about. You're throwing more away in depreciation getting new with maintenance contracts.


----------



## alexjb

There is a R diesel in the pipeline apparently!!!! Me first!


----------



## Tricky Red

R + Diesel = complete contradiction. 

Like a diesel Scirocco, or a diesel R8 - some cars should just be petrol and left at that. 

IMO of course


----------



## DW58

The 2.0 150PS GT really impressed me this morning, didn't sound or feel like a diesel - the same engine is also available on the SE, I could be tempted although I haven't owned a diesel car since 1991.


----------



## SteveTDCi

184 tdi has been put back a while, and yes it was me that sad it was bland and I still stand by that. It has a bit of mk4 about it too. Just compare the golf to the octavia mk3 which looks classier and the new leon which although looks like an evolution of the mk2 still has some nice touches. I've hot my name on the demo list for the Leon and will try and get. Golf for a few days too.


----------



## DW58

It would be an odd world if we all liked the same thing - I like an understated look which is why to me the Astra for example is as ugly as my sister-in-law (and believe me that's really fugly). I agree with you on the Leon, I like Seat's style but as I also like the Golf I'm sticking with it. Cars like the Astra are simply too "flash" for me.

I'm sure there will be features of the Mk.7 Golf I don't like, but at this ealy stage I haven't found any. The SE is very well equipped, much more so than the Mk.6 SE, and has most of the features of my current Match and some that it doesn't. I have parking sensors at present whereas the Mk.7 SE doesn't, but I'm not paying to have them and won't miss them. What I may specify however is the rear view camera at £165.

I was very impressed after driving the two Mk.7 Golfs this morning - it's not the car for everyone, but most VW fans will love it.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Lol, our first one arrives feb/march, it's in blue like all of the adverts  that's the se model.


----------



## DW58

The SE I drove this morning was Pacific Blue, the GT in Deep Black (pearl).


----------



## SteveTDCi

I think pacific is the one I've ordered, is that the lighter blue ? Our dealer has a dark blue tsi and a black tdi, I think this weekend is the big launch weekend.


----------



## DW58

Yes, Pacific Blue is the lighter shade, Night Blue is the other one. Yes, this is launch weekend - my local dealer only got their three cars yesterday and we were the first folks to have booked test-drives, hence we got to play with both of them. The cars I drove had 32 and 25 miles on the clock when I took them out.










I was quite amazed at just how different both models were from the Mk.6, the thing which impressed me most was the apparent increase in interior room. The front seats feel further apart and the room in the front seems much improved. Rear legroom is definitely better and SWMBO didn't whinge about the rear seat while #1 (and only) son occupied the passenger seat.










The touch-screen head unit is very impressive, many of the car management items previously on the small MFD have been moved to/expanded onto the larger screen much in the way Audi have done, and the MFD is now pictorial rather than simply a dot-based display as in the Mk.6










The multiple engine modes are very impressive - there are three pre-set modes: Eco; Normal; Sport; plus a Custom mode where you can set things up for yourself. I didn't get a chance to try the new adaptive cruise control which is standard on all models above the S, but the spec seems impressive.










The new electronic parking brake was very clever, in theory its pretty much automatic, plus there is also a very handy hill hold function which is especially handy with the DSG box. Speaking of DSG, this changes totally seamlessly, even better than the previous DSG box and the so-called "Flappy Paddles" - well you can't really call them that any more - are actually flush-fitting buttons on the rear of the steering wheel with a textured finish, they work very well making me decide I have to have them with the DSG box on my next car.










There is lots of storage - the Mk.7 SE/GT driven have drawers under both front seats, a box in the roof for specs etc., one at the from of the centre console and one under the arm-rest, boxes in all four doors and pockets on the back of both seats and the usual glove box on the dash. There is also quite a bit of space under the boot-floor and small compartments on both sides of the boot.










If it sounds like I'm rather sold on the Mk.7, well I am - but there again as the haters always tell me I'm a VAG Fanboy I suppose, and that on top of being an Apple Fanboy as well - am I eternally damned ... ... ... well I don't think so. Well that's it, enough gushing from me - I love it.

If like me you know a good car when you see one, go and try it. Leave the sad gits to their Astra, Focus, C4, Megane and other Euro boxes, or even those from further afield and try the Mk.7 Golf.

Is it bland ... ... ... well I don't think so


----------



## WashMitt

Not really a fan of Volkswagen anymore, they have lost that something, the Mrs has a scirocco and tbh it's a piece of junk, I like the styling of the new golf over the old but prefer the A3 or the 1 Series any day.


----------



## DW58

Good job we're not all alike - about the only cars I've never heard anyone singing the praises of on DW are the Lada and the Trabant, but who knows, maybe we have a closet Ladaphile or Trabbyfan* lurking somewhere :lol:

* RisingPower?


----------



## Kerr

WashMitt said:


> Not really a fan of Volkswagen anymore, they have lost that something, the Mrs has a scirocco and tbh it's a piece of junk, I like the styling of the new golf over the old but prefer the A3 or the 1 Series any day.


When did VW last have it?

I remember all the negative for years and all of a sudden after quite a few mundane cars they are suddenly desirable beyond their station.

No, just no.


----------



## should_do_more

I have a mkv golf and more fell into it rather than chose it. I like it, but not the squeaks, rattles and some of the interior is just plain dull. Looks wise, it's no looker but it isn't unpleasant. I quite like the new one and the conservative styling. I keep my cars for years, I have a golf, a Morgan and a boxster, so conservative looks and long life before looking dated are important to me.

Thanks for that great review - I'm tempted to try the new one, a GT 140 TSI again, so good to hear the car sounds promising. The only thing is with all the bits I want it isn't cheap, but there we go. I think where I have been going wrong is saving up and buying cash, finance is fine but I just never do it. Looking at the costs vw are breaking the finance up nicely to make it more tempting.

For me the mkvi was always just a facelift. The vii sounds like it might fit the bill, especially with a claimed 60+mpg and £20 road tax. The mkv has always been pretty poor in these areas. I'm using the configuration app so that might not all be correct.

DW58, thanks for putting that review together.


----------



## WashMitt

Kerr said:


> When did VW last have it?
> 
> I remember all the negative for years and all of a sudden after quite a few mundane cars they are suddenly desirable beyond their station.
> 
> No, just no.


I think you have to go back to the early golfs, they were right up there but with models like the passat and that horrible 4x4 they've fell by the wayside,


----------



## Black.MB

Looks more Mk6.5, but i like it.


----------



## Avanti

Black.MB said:


> Looks more Mk6.5, but i like it.


Perhaps, when you have a 'winning' formula, why change it? 
Rock music is not classical music, so both will retain their followers.


----------



## shaqs77

Definitely


----------



## Bristle Hound

There is a saying - you can't please everyone all the time :wave:

Personally, I love the look of 'em :thumb:

I will be looking to change my Audi for a new Mk 7 Golf GTI 3 door when it appears :driver:


----------



## WashMitt

Bristle Hound said:


> There is a saying - you can't please everyone all the time :wave:
> 
> Personally, I love the look of 'em :thumb:
> 
> I will be looking to change my Audi for a new Mk 7 Golf GTI 3 door when it appears :driver:


Bit of a step down that, a Vw can't touch a Audi for build quality, and Quattro to 2wd plus a much smaller car,

Just my opinion of course, if that's what you want go for it, I still have a mk4 gti that I bought from new in 2002 I love it, I don't think I'll ever get rid of it but I would want a Gti as my only car.

I drove the mk6 gti recently and it was dire, horrible gear changes and the seats are just nasty, I hope they improve on it with the new variant.


----------



## Bristle Hound

WashMitt said:


> Bit of a step down that,


I don't agree but everyones entitled to their own opinion 



WashMitt said:


> a Vw can't touch a Audi for build quality, and Quattro to 2wd plus a much smaller car,


Smaller car is what I want. I don't need the size of an A4 anymore.
My choice is a bit limited I'm afraid

Not a BMW fan (just my opinion)
New A3 looks to much like an A1 (& I really love my Audi's)

New A3 saloon (when it comes out) is defo in the running tho :argie:

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ...


----------



## WashMitt

See that's very underwhelming to me, and it's a lot of money

Whereas.....










If it looks anything like this then wow.....


----------



## Avanti

WashMitt said:


> See that's very underwhelming to me, and it's a lot of money
> 
> Whereas.....
> 
> If it looks anything like this then wow.....


It does look nice, the downside for me is that it has more two extra doors and a boot 
A lot of money only for those that cannot afford it, let's suppose the Bugati Veyron was 50% or even 75% off for DW members, it's still out of reach for a lot of us and hence expensive


----------



## WashMitt

Avanti said:


> It does look nice, the downside for me is that it has more two extra doors and a boot
> A lot of money only for those that cannot afford it, let's suppose the Bugati Veyron was 50% or even 75% off for DW members, it's still out of reach for a lot of us and hence expensive


At 50% the Veyron would be a lot of money but well worth it, a golf gti for over 30k is expensive full stop, and not worth it

IMO of course :thumb:


----------



## Avanti

WashMitt said:


> At 50% the Veyron would be a lot of money but well worth it, *a golf gti for over 30k is expensive full stop,* and not worth it
> 
> IMO of course :thumb:


Yes it is a lot of money, but there is no alternative for those that like and can afford one, I suppose cars are priced for their intended market, for those that can't or won't afford it, there are plenty of alternatives. Just like everything else we can buy


----------



## WashMitt

Avanti said:


> Yes it is a lot of money, but there is no alternative for those that like and can afford one, I suppose cars are priced for their intended market, for those that can't or won't afford it, there are plenty of alternatives. Just like everything else we can buy


S3 dude S3 :thumb:

There's also the a5

I don't think it's a matter of being able to afford one, I don't finance my cars so taking 30k out of my bank and seeing a Golf on the drive would hurt me, but there has been many arguments of late about what car is best and opinions are always going to differ and people will always defend there own model/brand it's human nature.


----------



## DW58

Mk.7 Golf anyone, the thread seems to be wandering.


----------



## RisingPower

WashMitt said:


> See that's very underwhelming to me, and it's a lot of money
> 
> Whereas.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it looks anything like this then wow.....


Tbh, that looks just as underwhelming to me. Audi don't seem to have the most imaginative designs, they all look very similar indeed.


----------



## Kerr

RisingPower said:


> Tbh, that looks just as underwhelming to me. Audi don't seem to have the most imaginative designs, they all look very similar indeed.


I think it looks nice, but not radically different than before.

Some new edges and curves added.

It does seem to be the German thing in recent years. Most new models are very similar to the old one and often cars from each brands range look similar too.


----------



## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> I think it looks nice, but not radically different than before.
> 
> Some new edges and curves added.
> 
> It does seem to be the German thing in recent years. Most new models are very similar to the old one and often cars from each brands range look similar too.


It's a bit average and tbh the s5 looks so similar it would be hard to tell them apart.

The newer bmws do certainly look different, especially the 1 series and m3, but I only like the looks of the m3.


----------



## Avanti

WashMitt said:


> S3 dude S3 :thumb:
> 
> There's also the a5
> 
> I don't think it's a matter of being able to afford one, I don't finance my cars* so taking 30k out of my bank and seeing a Golf on the drive would hurt me,* *but there has been many arguments of late about what car is best and opinions are always going to differ and people will always defend there own model/brand it's human nature*.


I don't feel so much people are defending themselves, I know what you mean though, when you spend your hard earned you want what you feel is right for you. The current Megane's look nice but for me I could not bring myself to spend my hard earned on one, when when in the back of my mind I wanted something else (made that mistake many times in my younger days) .
The general straw poll unscientific view is that others will want to 'spend' your money for you irrespective of what you are purchasing


----------



## discodaz

Grizzle said:


> I think you are mistaken mate, VAG build quality has taken a turn for the worse, the components are poor quality and with the recent i30 release VW chief was asking why his cars arent as well made as the new i30.


I agree with this statement to some extent, my mk1 Focus RS has a better build quality than my mk6 Golf GTD


----------



## WashMitt

RisingPower said:


> It's a bit average and tbh the s5 looks so similar it would be hard to tell them apart.
> 
> The newer bmws do certainly look different, especially the 1 series and m3, but I only like the looks of the m3.





discodaz said:


> I agree with this statement to some extent, my mk1 Focus RS has a better build quality than my mk6 Golf GTD


This just echoes what iv been saying about vw's being overpriced for what they offer, I'd take Audi build quality all day, and for that matter BMW


----------



## SteveTDCi

There are less rattles in my Leon (none) compared to the a3 or Audi that I had before ir.


----------



## DW58

*Top Gear awards VW Golf Mk.7 "Car Of The Year"*.

*All-the-car-you'll-ever-need car of the Year 2012: VW Golf*

_"The mk VII Golf is a quiet triumph, a car that doesn't shout loudly..."_

Posted by: Tom Ford, 19 December 2012



> Evolution can be a very slow and tedious process, waiting for external factors to dictate a new generation. And so it is with the VW Golf, now in its seventh iteration. But is the evolution-not-revolution attitude a bad thing in a family hatch? It works for Porsche's 911 series, and with a car built to cover a whole gamut of bases, surely that's the way to go? As it turns out, it is. The mk VII Golf is a quiet triumph, a car that doesn't shout loudly, but turns out to carry not a big stick, but a Swiss Army Knife of abilities.
> 
> And it has been refined and smoothed over the decades to become the sort of car that makes everything else just look like frippery. TopGear came to the conclusion that "it can be hard to find a question for which a Golf isn't the answer. It's right-sized for the city and nimble in the country. Yet at normal motorway speed, a Golf is more relaxed than many big-tyred luxury barges."
> 
> The only conclusion? That the Golf is the sensible choice. For every occasion.
> 
> Which is why it has the glorious honour of being awarded the Top Gear Magazine All-the-car-you'll-ever-need of the Year 2012. Read the full story in the Awards issue of TG mag, out now.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

SteveTDCi said:


> I think pacific is the one I've ordered, is that the lighter blue?


*Night Blue*









*Pacific Blue*


----------



## rf860

Wonder how much top gear got paid to say that about the golf :lol:


----------



## DW58

rf860 said:


> Wonder how much top gear got paid to say that about the golf :lol:


About the same as the kudos you get for such a stupid and non-original post - nothing!


----------



## rf860

DW58 said:


> About the same as the kudos you get for such a stupid and non-original post - nothing!


Settle petal. Was only a joke! Jesus golf fans are really protective of their cars


----------



## WashMitt

DW58 said:


> About the same as the kudos you get for such a stupid and non-original post - nothing!


In fairness to him, top gear is one the biggest jokes in the motoring industry, I love the programme but all three talk jive most of the time and don't get me started on the magazine


----------



## SteveTDCi

Ah its pacific blue we have on order, the Mk7 is working out slightly cheaper to lease than the Mk6 (1.6TDi SE v 1.6TDi Match with bluemotion tech) 

As for all the car you might need .... not so sure, i'd wait until the Leon and Octavia are released. I think they might surprise a few. The only thing the Golf has in its favour is that it does everything at 80%, Others have better steering, better handling and also look much more modern. The Golf is a constant evolution, People buy it because its a Golf, not because it pulls at the heart strings.


----------



## DW58

The new Octavia just doesn't do it for me. Whilst I have nothing against Skoda cars, in my opinion they're always spoilt by that fugly grill which is a great shame. 

On the other hand, I think the Seat Leon looks great but it's not practical for me as there's not a dealership locally, and the nearest one (40 miles) is run by Arnold Clark, need I say any more?

What I just don't understand is why everyone and his dog has to constantly knock the Golf. No-one is forcing the multitudes to buy/drive the Golf, and what amuses me is that so many of its critics here on DW drive complete sheds, cars I wouldn't be seen dead in. That aside, there's just no need to constantly criticise what is a very good car. I like understated looks, good performance, reliability etc., is supporting my chosen brand so wrong - no it isn't. Surely 29 million-plus buyers can't be wrong.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

rf860 said:


> Settle petal. Was only a joke! Jesus golf fans are really protective of their cars


Maybe that's because we are under constant criticism & slagging from members on here & just need to 'burst'- ever think of that?!



WashMitt said:


> In fairness to him, top gear is one the biggest jokes in the motoring industry, I love the programme but all three talk jive most of the time and don't get me started on the magazine


I like the programme but hate the 3 idiots that present it, especially Clarkson & the unfunny Hamster.



SteveTDCi said:


> Ah its pacific blue we have on order, the Mk7 is working out slightly cheaper to lease than the Mk6 (1.6TDi SE v 1.6TDi Match with bluemotion tech.)


Nice one. Surprising slightly how the MK7 is cheaper to lease than the MK6.


----------



## DW58

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Maybe that's because we are under constant criticism & slagging from members on here & just need to 'burst'- ever think of that?!
> .


Well said Jim - what is especially annoying is that so much of the criticism comes from members just trying to get a rise - never mind, I get a good laugh from seeing what some of them drive. Others are just wind-up merchants with nothing better to do. I also think a fair few pairs of blinkers are involved - and then there are those who just can't stand to see something being successful. Then of course there's jealousy.

The best thing Jim is that we don't need to bang the drum loudly as the haters do


----------



## SteveTDCi

new models usually work out slightly cheaper, better residuals means lower payments, although if you were to personal lease you would be mad not to go for a Mercedes C Class.

I think the new Octavia looks quite classy, they have shrunk the grill a bit and it seems to work well, the shape looks clean and modern (ish) Of course everyone is entitled to there opinions but it doesn't mean they are right  and that goes both ways. I just feel that after looking at the new GOlf the other weekend that it really did lack imagination, if anything it looks better in a magazine than in real life. Yes it will sell loads, and that's becasue its a Golf. I feel most people on here lover their BMW's something that I just don't like. I'll reserve my full opinion on the GOlf after i have borrowed one for a week, but it won't make me like the look of the exterior or interior anymore.


----------



## WashMitt

VW Golf-Fan said:


> *Maybe that's because we are under constant criticism & slagging from members on here & just need to 'burst'- ever think of that?! *
> 
> I like the programme but hate the 3 idiots that present it, especially Clarkson & the unfunny Hamster.
> 
> Nice one. Surprising slightly how the MK7 is cheaper to lease than the MK6.


Everyone on here slags of everyone else's car in one way or another,


----------



## Kerr

DW58 said:


> The new Octavia just doesn't do it for me. Whilst I have nothing against Skoda cars, in my opinion they're always spoilt by that fugly grill which is a great shame.
> 
> On the other hand, I think the Seat Leon looks great but it's not practical for me as there's not a dealership locally, and the nearest one (40 miles) is run by Arnold Clark, need I say any more?
> 
> What I just don't understand is why everyone and his dog has to constantly knock the Golf. No-one is forcing the multitudes to buy/drive the Golf, and what amuses me is that so many of its critics here on DW drive complete sheds, cars I wouldn't be seen dead in. That aside, there's just no need to constantly criticise what is a very good car. I like understated looks, good performance, reliability etc., is supporting my chosen brand so wrong - no it isn't. Surely 29 million-plus buyers can't be wrong.





DW58 said:


> Well said Jim - what is especially annoying is that so much of the criticism comes from members just trying to get a rise - never mind, I get a good laugh from seeing what some of them drive. Others are just wind-up merchants with nothing better to do. I also think a fair few pairs of blinkers are involved - and then there are those who just can't stand to see something being successful. Then of course there's jealousy.
> 
> The best thing Jim is that we don't need to bang the drum loudly as the haters do


How come you are allowed to slag Skoda as fugly and as soon as someone mentions something with VW you spit the dummy?

Same with Apple, you can't hear a word against them and slag off the competition.

You can't wait to "hate" Andy Murray at every opportunity.

Time to realise your opinion is not the ********** end of and maybe be able to accept people have different opinions to you.

All this "haters" talk when someone has a different opinion than you is a little embarrassing to be honest.

Then to attack other as jealous?

Do you realise what a number of the people drive who don't agree with the VW hype?


----------



## Kerr

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201301114876301

One of my issues with the Golf is the cost.

£23, 000 for a used 1.4 with 140bhp. I find that extremely hard to justify.

Using the VW configurator adding 18" wheels, metallic paint, pro nav, standard leather and you are £30k.

What is a GTi going to cost?

The Ford Focus is a very close match and exceeds the Golf as a driver's car.

For £22k you could have a brand new Focus ST with 250bhp making 23k for a used 1.4 way too much.

Prices start at nearly £16,000for a 1.2 with 85bhp which sounds very underpowered for a car of this size and weight.


----------



## PugIain

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Maybe that's because we are under constant criticism & slagging from members on here & just need to 'burst'- ever think of that?!


No not really chap. I get quite a bit of abuse for liking Peugeots. See lots of posts "peugeots are ****" "unreliable" I haven't felt like "bursting" especially not with the longer serving members who, 9 times out of 10 say things tongue in cheek (or atleast they better do or Ill be speaking to their mothers). Besides , chill. If you like VWs what does it matter if people on the internet slag them off.
Personally I dont like them ( I think theyre over priced and cheaper stuff does the job just as well but isnt obviously seen as "premium"), but Im a 6' 1" skinny ginger idiot, with a penchant for floaty French barges so what do I know.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Has anyone looked at the new a class ? It has a more premium badge than the golf, is cheaper to lease and IMO looks very nice. The point about the focus st is also valid, the amount of car you get for the money is great.

As for Peugeot, they are pants  my 206 is the only car I had fail the mot and once through the mot I ended it up selling as spares or repair. It was actually a good little car when working properly though. The rcz is a very nice looking car as is the 208 but I just cannot get on with that dash.


----------



## PugIain

SteveTDCi said:


> As for Peugeot, they are pants


Right, tell her to get the kettle on!


----------



## Avanti

Kerr said:


> http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201301114876301
> 
> *One of my issues with the Golf is the cost.*
> 
> £23, 000 for a used 1.4 with 140bhp. I find that extremely hard to justify.
> *
> Using the VW configurator adding 18" wheels, metallic paint, pro nav, standard leather and you are £30k. *
> 
> *What is a GTi going to cost? *
> 
> The Ford Focus is a very close match and exceeds the Golf as a driver's car.
> 
> For £22k you could have a brand new Focus ST with 250bhp making 23k for a used 1.4 way too much.
> 
> Prices start at nearly £16,000for a 1.2 with 85bhp which sounds very underpowered for a car of this size and weight.


To be fair , the 'sensible' wouldn't buy a 1.4 Golf and add those options, the GTI would cost about the same money as a lot of the kit comes as standard.
When I was getting my Golf , it was my 1st new car and as such was looking at what my choices of other cars were.
Typre R Civic didn't carry much equipment and was not even available aas an option. The Astra VXR at a quick glance looked cheaper, but then things like auto lights and wipers were an optional extra and the same spec VXR was actually more than a GTI at that time. 
But yes an SE with some bits can deprive you of £30k until a GTI is launched we won't know but I guess they will be about £26k standard but already come with larger alloy wheels and other equipment.


----------



## Kerr

Avanti said:


> To be fair , the 'sensible' wouldn't buy a 1.4 Golf and add those options, the GTI would cost about the same money as a lot of the kit comes as standard.
> When I was getting my Golf , it was my 1st new car and as such was looking at what my choices of other cars were.
> Typre R Civic didn't carry much equipment and was not even available aas an option. The Astra VXR at a quick glance looked cheaper, but then things like auto lights and wipers were an optional extra and the same spec VXR was actually more than a GTI at that time.
> But yes an SE with some bits can deprive you of £30k until a GTI is launched we won't know but I guess they will be about £26k standard but already come with larger alloy wheels and other equipment.


Isn't metallic paint, 18" wheels and sat nav very common these days?

Maybe not so much leather but I would want that on a car costing £30k.

The 1.4gt is £24, 500 standard so I can't see a GTi only £1500 more.


----------



## PugIain

£30k for a Golf. A run of the mill, not very exciting, my 64 year old neighbour has one, my 19 year old daughter has one for college, Golf. Good god.
Now if you're well to do and enjoy chucking money at stuff to impress folk then go ahead, but really? £30k?
I'm not that well off so I'm in the queue in a year or two for a 4/5 year old 508 saloon.


----------



## Avanti

Kerr said:


> Isn't metallic paint, 18" wheels and sat nav very common these days?
> 
> Maybe not so much leather but I would want that on a car costing £30k.
> 
> The 1.4gt is £24, 500 standard so I can't see a GTi only £1500 more.


With the MK5 , the 1.4 TSI thing , when you spec'd it to be like a GTI, it actually cost more than a GTI.
Sat Nav I understand is on there as standard, the sat nav pro is an optional extra, metallic paint is an option everywhere, 18" wheels are not essential and (IMO) are a bit chav on smaller engine cars but that is my opinion there. Have a look at the MK6 prices to compare the two ideas, the GTI won't come with leather as standard on launch, but in the MK 6 and later MK5 the leather seats were standard, so can work out less cost than the equivalent smaller range model.


----------



## DW58

Kerr said:


> How come you are allowed to slag Skoda as fugly and as soon as someone mentions something with VW you spit the dummy?
> 
> Same with Apple, you can't hear a word against them and slag off the competition.
> 
> You can't wait to "hate" Andy Murray at every opportunity.
> 
> Time to realise your opinion is not the ********** end of and maybe be able to accept people have different opinions to you.
> 
> All this "haters" talk when someone has a different opinion than you is a little embarrassing to be honest.
> 
> Then to attack other as jealous?
> 
> Do you realise what a number of the people drive who don't agree with the VW hype?


As opposed to yourself who just slags off everything.

BTW I didn't slag of Skoda as "fugly", I actually said the grill was "fugly" that was all. Perhaps you ought to put your cards on the table eh?

Since when was Andy Murray a car rather than just a Scots guy who's good at tennis but totally lacking in personality?

Even playing field old chap, so get rolling.


----------



## Kerr

DW58 said:


> As opposed to yourself who just slags off everything.
> 
> BTW I didn't slag of Skoda as "fugly", I actually said the grill was "fugly" that was all. Perhaps you ought to put your cards on the table eh?
> 
> Since when was Andy Murray a car rather than just a Scots guy who's good at tennis but totally lacking in personality?
> 
> Even playing field old chap, so get rolling.


Quite a bitter criticism is it not? Why use such an obscenity when being polite you could have merely stated you didn't like it?

You go mental when someone says something against something you like.

As I say you can't handle anyone's opinion that differs with your own and when they do you behave like a spoilt brat.

You are so obsessed with VW and Apple(must be 80%+ of your posts on these two topics) you just try and overpower anyone that doesn't agree with you.

I never said Andy Murray was a car, but you attack him whenever possible when it is not even required.

It's just the same stuff different days.


----------



## SteveTDCi

DW58 said:


> ......good at tennis but totally lacking in personality?


This I agree with :lol:

I think all C segment cars have become expensive, why anyone would spend 30k on one i would never know. The truth is not many people pay full list although you will pay more for a golf still. Skoda and Seat both offered 0% VAT and 0% finance, however a Focus 1.0 Zetec Ecoboost at around £14500 brand new would be my choice over a 30k Golf. People are prepared to buy into a brand, thats why people spend lots on a Mini. Besides people put eveything on finance these days so list means nothing providing people have low monthly payments they really don't care what they spend.

Oh and the 508, we had one from Avis for 6 months and stuck 15k on it, it ran fine and on the odd occasion when i drove it I quite liked it. It was a black 1.6HDi with a big glass roof which made all the difference. At 5k it would be a great buy.


----------



## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> Quite a bitter criticism is it not? Why use such an obscenity when being polite you could have merely stated you didn't like it?
> 
> You go mental when someone says something against something you like.
> 
> As I say you can't handle anyone's opinion that differs with your own and when they do you behave like a spoilt brat.
> 
> You are so obsessed with VW and Apple(must be 80%+ of your posts on these two topics) you just try and overpower anyone that doesn't agree with you.
> 
> I never said Andy Murray was a car, but you attack him whenever possible when it is not even required.
> 
> It's just the same stuff different days.


Good gawd, you mean there are other cars out there other than VW's?!?!? 

There are the sensible vw drivers, who actually bought it for somewhat logical reasons and then there are the ridiculous people who believe there really is nothing else out there.


----------



## Avanti

RisingPower said:


> Good gawd, you mean there are other cars out there other than VW's?!?!?
> *
> There are the sensible vw drivers, who actually bought it for somewhat logical reasons and then there are the ridiculous people who believe there really is nothing else out there.*


Heh heh , I think I fall into both categories 
But I don't think they carry the same euphoria as iphones.


----------



## RisingPower

Avanti said:


> Heh heh , I think I fall into both categories
> But I don't think they carry the same euphoria as iphones.


You don't fall into both categories from my experience  (Just the loony category )


----------



## Kerr

RisingPower said:


> Good gawd, you mean there are other cars out there other than VW's?!?!?
> 
> There are the sensible vw drivers, who actually bought it for somewhat logical reasons and then there are the ridiculous people who believe there really is nothing else out there.


Has any other car ever managed a 28 page thread?

VW do make good cars, but it is just another family hatch and nothing special at the end of the day.

I honestly can't understand how people get excited about a Golf like others do a Lamborghini or Ferrari etc.

I've honestly never seen people so obsessed and fanatical about certain brands.

It almost seems like supporting a football team at times.


----------



## Avanti

Kerr said:


> Has any other car ever managed a 28 page thread?
> 
> VW do make good cars, but it is just another family hatch and nothing special at the end of the day.
> 
> I honestly can't understand how people get excited about a Golf like others do a Lamborghini or Ferrari etc.
> 
> *I've honestly never seen people so obsessed and fanatical about certain brands.*
> 
> It almost seems like supporting a football team at times.


Indeed I suppose it's like a football team favouritism, and I don't think anyone is trying to convince you to change teams.
I had an array of cars before the Golfs, my dream car at the time was a Triumph Dolomite, I got 1 .. well 4, every week was under the bonnet adjusting the points, indeed times have moved on with engineering advances.
I wanted a Golf GLS at the time, I remember seeing a Golf outside an exhaust centre, it wasn't a GLS, I remember stopping by with my then GF, we sat inside and the guy came along took the sticker off and handed me the keys, took the car for a long test drive and I was hooked, it was pricey as they are £2600 at the time, I saved n saved for one and promised myself as long as I can afford one , it is the 'minimum' I will get .
Evenif I had a big lotto win, I would still have a Golf if I'm honest, the supercars I would rent as required/ desired, one friend had a Lotus Esprit, was nice to look at but not so nice to drive, also more recently my mate had a Boxster, I still preffered the ride in the Golf, so for some it's not just about the badge, as it happens I like Audi's too, so a similar spec A3 is the only alternative for me (but I couldn't afford an Audi


----------



## WashMitt

Avanti said:


> Indeed I suppose it's like a football team favouritism, and I don't think anyone is trying to convince you to change teams.
> I had an array of cars before the Golfs, my dream car at the time was a Triumph Dolomite, I got 1 .. well 4, every week was under the bonnet adjusting the points, indeed times have moved on with engineering advances.
> I wanted a Golf GLS at the time, I remember seeing a Golf outside an exhaust centre, it wasn't a GLS, I remember stopping by with my then GF, we sat inside and the guy came along took the sticker off and handed me the keys, took the car for a long test drive and I was hooked, it was pricey as they are £2600 at the time, I saved n saved for one and promised myself as long as I can afford one , it is the 'minimum' I will get .
> 
> one friend had a Lotus Esprit, was nice to look at but not so nice to drive, also more recently my mate had a Boxster, I still preffered the ride in the Golf, so for some it's not just about the badge, as it happens I like Audi's too, so a similar spec A3 is the only alternative for me (but I couldn't afford an Audi


I'm gonna fix that for you,

Now that's a decent post and makes sense, the lottery win part let you down,


----------



## Avanti

Kerr said:


> Has any other car ever managed a 28 page thread?
> 
> VW do make good cars, but it is just another family hatch and nothing special at the end of the day.
> 
> I honestly can't understand how people get excited about a Golf like others do a Lamborghini or Ferrari etc.
> 
> I've honestly never seen people so obsessed and fanatical about certain brands.
> 
> It almost seems like supporting a football team at times.


Just to add Kerr, the quality across the ranges are or were not always the same, with the MK5 the 'lesser' models some were built in China (not that that is in itself bad) but my neighbours 1.6 was not a patch on my car the air vents were all flimsy feeling the seat upholstery was thin etc


----------



## SteveTDCi

My Mk5 Golf, Wheels replaced due to corrosion, convenience module replaced, Seat base replaced, air vent replaced, all under warranty. A few squeeks and rattles too. Audi A3 SLine (besides it being dull) door handle kept working itself loose, rattles too and DSG gearbox that felt like it was on its way out. Seat Leon .... no warranty work, no rattles 

I can understand someone buying a Golf after trying 15 other cars and then deciding its the best for them but never understand why you would buy one just because its a Golf. 

I wouldn't buy a Kia or Hyundai as I have driven them and find them dull, the new Golf, well the looks don't do it for me. The current Focus is very nice but by all accounts the MPG on the 1.6T isn't much better than my current Leon and because i'm only considering changing to get something newer and avoiding some of costs such as tyres etc but I would end up spending £7000 and that buys a lot of tyres and i could understand it if i didn't like the car but i really am struggling to find its ideal replacement.


----------



## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> Has any other car ever managed a 28 page thread?
> 
> VW do make good cars, but it is just another family hatch and nothing special at the end of the day.
> 
> I honestly can't understand how people get excited about a Golf like others do a Lamborghini or Ferrari etc.
> 
> I've honestly never seen people so obsessed and fanatical about certain brands.
> 
> It almost seems like supporting a football team at times.


That's a matter of popularity and how many posts said vw lovers make.

Not necessarily how good they are.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Just been and looked at the new seat Leon, very nice and a vast step up in quality over the mk2. The outside has a nice look to it too and the driving position feels better.


----------



## AndyC

I drove past a billboard advert for the "new" Golf on Friday en route to Hammersmith - had to look twice to check that it wasn't an advert for the current one.


----------



## T.D.K

Just my opinion and I will reserve final judgement before seeing one in the flesh but the new Golf doesn't excite me at all. VW's evolution of the Golf is very slow and probably because they don't want to put off the VW loyalists.

No doubt it will be lovely to drive and will be well built (which is probably more important than how it looks)


----------



## SteveTDCi

New Golf looks worse in real life than it does in the magazines


----------



## possul

Had quite a few orders at work, should be doing a pdi on 150 GT tdi tomorrow.
Tbh I don't think there's enough of a change, should of brought it out as a face lift.
some will say the specs good but its all this tech has been out on other makes for a while now.

cylinder deactivation is very good though so im told, yet to drive one on the road yet


----------



## fotismt

Most of new Golf 7 on the roads are TDI. I like it but I think it's a facelift of Golf 6 too. 

Sent from my GT-N7000


----------



## andy665

fotismt said:


> Most of new Golf 7 on the roads are TDI. I like it but I think it's a facelift of Golf 6 too.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7000


Its an awful lot more than a MK6 facelift,- MK7 is underpinned by a completely new platform (MQB)

The Golf is so critical to Volkswagens success that they are terrified of deviating from the template that was laid out originally with the MK1 - tbh - can you blame them - no matter what people think of them, the sales figures prove that Volkswagen have a winning formula


----------



## DW58

According to what I've read backed up by the test drives last week, the Mk7 is pretty much an entirely new car. As _Andy665_ says, the superficial similarity to the Mk6 is wholly intentional to maintain what the VW dealer referred to as "a logical progression".

For example, although both Mk6 and Mk7 have 1.4TSi 122PS engines as one of the options, the Mk7 version is a new engine and not the same as that in the Mk6, I'm not sure exactly which others are new, but my local dealers were referring to "the new range of engines". Certainly the 1.4TSi 140PS ACT engine is also new among others.


----------



## SteveTDCi

I think they are moving back from the chain driven tsi engines back to the belt driven ones. The 1.4 and 1.8 (1.8 Leon/Octavia only) the 1.4 122ps I'm not sure about, there were lots of issues with the 160/180ps versions of the 1.4 which never affected the 122ps version. The 2.0 tdi is available in both 150 and 184 versions and I'm sure this is a new range of diesels to.

I wouldn't say the mk7 looks like a facelift mk6 it does look like a continuation of the golf theme. I would say the 1.8 tsi would be the best engine in the revised range why vw don't fit this engine in the golf I really don't know. I know from dealing with our fleet people automatically choose the golf, the the Leon followed by the Octavia. People don't want the Octavia because it's a skoda, they default to the golf just because it's a golf. I actually think the m6 is th best looking golf at the moment, th gti especially. However they are expensive and although on paper the residuals are good in reality you still lose more money in real terms.

The reason I chose the se version of the new golf is purely because of the current spec, radar activated cruise for some reason being a very good feature.

I had the chance to play with the new touch screen in the Leon and I does seem to be a good improvement over the 510 versions. I do think the 1.4 tsi engine could be the pick of the mqb range. No doubt the golf will sell well but the other chassis deserve to sell as equally as well. I think Audi are going very minamilist with the interiors although well built slightly dull. The Leon I wish they would push as the Spanish Alfa, I feel they are penned back. They have the basics and access to some great engines but I feel they cannot push as far as they can. They also have the quality to out build the golf, the seat plant already builds the Audi q3 so they know how to screw things together when they are not on a siesta. Th dullest seat is the mii which is tied to th up and citygo, then the exeo which they have managed to get Audi build quality and sharpen the looks slightly.

The new Toledo is lead by skoda with the rapid and it will date quickly, a leaves skoda, well built but again a little old fashioned, the superb is nice from the front but someone forgot to design the rear. The new Octavia however looks like a classier rapide, and in loos alone I would go Leon, Octavia golf based on what we have seen so far. The new Leon sc and st look like they could be very nice, the cupra has the chance I being a great car, although no doubt the press will rate the golf higher, however based on the current chassis I rate it Leon, golf mk5 then a3. Having driven the Leon Eco- motive and the golf blue motion I would pick the Leon for a cross country day but the golf is the knox of car that you would take the keys for if you wanted to cover 100 miles on a grey horrible wet day.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Oh dear, looks like someone's whacked this mint new MK7. :doublesho 

Looks not bad in this colour, this could be Tungsten Silver?


----------



## Kerr

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Oh dear, looks like someone's whacked this mint new MK7. :doublesho
> 
> Looks not bad in this colour, this could be Tungsten Silver?


Would be gutted with such a new car.


----------



## Avanti

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Oh dear, looks like someone's whacked this mint new MK7. :doublesho
> 
> Looks not bad in this colour, this could be Tungsten Silver?


Ouch! 
From what I understand, it's new for old with the insurance


----------



## possul

With this fancy new platform why not be a bit daring and try something else with the exterior styling.
Its still very similar underneath, not like alot has changed, so far all if noticed is the rear antiroll bar mounting has changed, im going to have a proper look soon 
I think its aimed at the older generation (don't take offence) im 24 and wouldn't think of buying one if i had the money, id rather have a mint mk5 but that's if I actually wanted a golf which I dont.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Usually that's the case. I guess that would be a demo car though. I'm not sure any customer cars have been released yet.


----------



## Keir

Look's a bit " folded"


----------



## 182_Blue

SteveTDCi said:


> Usually that's the case. I guess that would be a demo car though. I'm not sure any customer cars have been released yet.


It was a VW demo car out on a test drive, a 4x4 went up his back side.


----------



## Maggi200

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Oh dear, looks like someone's whacked this mint new MK7. :doublesho
> 
> Looks not bad in this colour, this could be Tungsten Silver?


The mint made me chuckle. Like you're describing an as new classic, not a brand new car :lol:

No shame in my eyes. Adds a little flavour to the back end


----------



## SteveTDCi

there are plenty of Mk6 tailgates on ebay, it shouldn't take long to get one and fit it 

Perhaps the person that hit it was trying to get close enough to see if it was the all new Mk7


----------



## Bigstuff

possul said:


> With this fancy new platform why not be a bit daring and try something else with the exterior styling.
> .


Yeah like a Leon


----------



## possul

Bigstuff said:


> Yeah like a Leon


Good looking car


----------



## Avanti

possul said:


> With this fancy new platform why not be a bit daring and try something else with the exterior styling.
> Its still very similar underneath, not like alot has changed, so far all if noticed is the rear antiroll bar mounting has changed, im going to have a proper look soon
> *I think its aimed at the older generation (don't take offence) im 24 and wouldn't think of buying one if i had the money, id rather have a mint mk5 but that's if I actually wanted a golf which I dont.*


No offence taken, and yes the model has matured like the target market, for the younger generation, there is always the Polo


----------



## kh904

Avanti said:


> No offence taken, and yes the model has matured like the target market, for the younger generation, there is always the Polo


tbh I prefer the look of the latest polo over the golf - it' s a bit more aggressive looking without looking boy racerish.


----------



## Avanti

kh904 said:


> tbh I prefer the look of the latest polo over the golf - it' s a bit more aggressive looking without looking boy racerish.


Not everybody wants an aggressive looking car though, it's one of the reasons I do choose a Golf over other offerings, but then some do like the aggresive look.


----------



## kh904

Avanti said:


> Not everybody wants an aggressive looking car though, it's one of the reasons I do choose a Golf over other offerings, but then some do like the aggresive look.


true, but it' s only aggressive when I'm comparing it to the golf.


----------



## RisingPower

maggi133 said:


> The mint made me chuckle. Like you're describing an as new classic, not a brand new car :lol:
> 
> No shame in my eyes. Adds a little flavour to the back end


Ooooo get you  It does look a bit less dull now tbh though 

What is that rear wiper about anyway?


----------



## possul

Avanti said:


> No offence taken, and yes the model has matured like the target market, for the younger generation, there is always the Polo


How old r u? 
I take it you are a golf owner?


----------



## Avanti

possul said:


> How old r u?
> I take it you are a golf owner?


47 and had VWs since I was 22, Mk1 GTI 2* MK2 GTI, Corrado, MK4 GTI, MK5 GTI and next hopefully a MK7 GTI


----------



## RisingPower

Avanti said:


> 47 and had VWs since I was 22, Mk1 GTI 2* MK2 GTI, Corrado, MK4 GTI, MK5 GTI and next hopefully a MK7 GTI


But you're down with the kids


----------



## Guest

This is all on personal choice so everyone's going to have a different opinion. The new Golf for me is not ticking any boxes. Sure, I can see the appeal but for me, most new cars are almost 'too' modern and have that horrible back end. Most drive fantastic don't get me wrong but image wise, they look not as sporty as the MK5's. They to me were the best of the Golf range. 

On the other side, I wouldn't pay the price to own a Golf as the Polo is getting very similar minus a few luxuries without the hefty price tag. Golfs will always be in fashion and because of the brand name, they will always sell. The thing I do like about the GTI range is they've kept the tartan seat idea. Right from the start until now. Gives it a nice retro look whilst keeping it modern with the red stitching and honeycomb grill


----------



## Dixondmn

I went to look at one last night. they had 2, one silver one black.

they both looked 'nice'. that is all


----------



## SteveTDCi

Roadtest in this weeks autocar,


----------



## andy665

SteveTDCi said:


> Roadtest in this weeks autocar,


And does not look like a 22k car, mind you neither does the Focus look like a 21k car

Is it any wonder the "premium" brands are having a good when they are hardly any more expensive than non premium


----------



## SteveTDCi

No it doesn't and while the focus doesn't massive discounts bring it down to a sensible level. It seems mainstream have pushed the prices up in an attempt to become premium and realistically only vw can pull off the premium badge. 

Whilst mainstream have increased in price genuine premium and in this market Audi, BMW and merc are realistically the only ones, Alfa like to pretend but they are in the middle have stood still with the pricing and the gap has closed. Why anyone would spend 22k on a golf when less will get you into a nice 1 series or even better the new a class, for a mid spec golf you could have a cla merc, something with genuine style. I'm not a BMW fan so I'll use merc as the example, if you buy a merc you are not buying a car, you are buying into a brand, the experience you buy an a class and that's the foot on the bottom step you can only go upwards, and that's where they have you. Now personally I don't give a toss about all the niceties I buy a car because I like it. When you buy a golf you are not buying into a brand in the same way as the merc. 

Premium want to trap you in the sme way motorpoint do with the boomerang finance  with the market as it is now different and premium sell and mean big profits, skoda are now over priced, vauxhall and ford are hardest hit, Renault and psa are really struggling and the Koreans are really picking the bottom of the market like the Japanese did in the 70's onwards but I find they are now pricing themselves out of the market. Who really wants to spend 20k on a Kia ceed ? They are best at the sell em cheap, the warrantys are not worth it unless you are buying used or intend to keep the car 7 years. Most people buy on finance over 3 years and then replace so what good is a 7 year warranty.

I think andy raises a valid point, 22k on a golf or a similar amount on a merc ? Where the finance will be lower ... Or you could just get a Leon and save £3000


----------



## Dixondmn

My Mk1 focus was the most popular zetec model, so had all the bells and whistles you'd realistically need and it cost me £13k brand spanking new!. These days a family hatch sets you back over £20k.

I'd rather have a 10 month old jag for a slight hike in price.


----------



## SteveTDCi

http://www.digitaltrends.com/photogalleries/2014-mercedes-benz-cla-class-photos/

Still want the golf ?


----------



## possul

For a few thousand more
http://autotrader.mobi/used-cars/ad...wing-5/0?PHPSESSID=o5tidrd3b6k74hsnbqichlq0f6
Maybe second hand but alot more car really


----------



## RisingPower

SteveTDCi said:


> http://www.digitaltrends.com/photogalleries/2014-mercedes-benz-cla-class-photos/
> 
> Still want the golf ?


See, why can't vw improve the looks of the golf like mercedes have done with pretty much all their lines?

Scirocco, is a different matter though.


----------



## possul

RisingPower said:


> See, why can't vw improve the looks of the golf like mercedes have done with pretty much all their lines?
> 
> Scirocco, is a different matter though.


I think the passat cc is a very good looking car also


----------



## RisingPower

possul said:


> I think the passat cc is a very good looking car also


Dull as dishwater. One lump of generic car please.


----------



## DW58

RisingPower said:


> Dull as dishwater. One lump of generic car please.


Says the guy who drives the Nissan Fairlady rofl


----------



## RisingPower

DW58 said:


> Says the guy who drives the Nissan Fairlady rofl


Yeah, it doesn't look like one generic lump of car.


----------



## kh904

RisingPower said:


> Dull as dishwater. One lump of generic car please.


I have to disagree with you re: the Passat CC, they look very nice in the flesh (imo)


----------



## DW58

RisingPower said:


> Yeah, it doesn't look like one generic lump of car.


I agree it's just an ugly lump, but not generic in any way 

BTW - I have say I agreed with your posts in the political thread t'other day, some good points


----------



## SteveTDCi

I Like the CC, the new A3 seems to hold up well in an accident, there is one with a shorter front in the bodyshop across the road


----------



## RisingPower

DW58 said:


> I agree it's just an ugly lump, but not generic in any way
> 
> BTW - I have say I agreed with your posts in the political thread t'other day, some good points


Fair enough, I mind generic more than ugly, at least some thought has been involved.

I just don't get the latest golf ad either, chucking some water, at a golf?


----------



## DW58

To be honest nor do I - but there again there are so many commercials which I struggle with, perhaps it's why I tend to record much of the TV I watch so I can fast-forward through the ad-spots.

To me, looks are not one of the most important factors in choosing a car, but generic or not I still like the Golf. 

What a good job we're not all Golf fans or there'd be a shortage of them - luckily other folks buy the Ford, Vauxhall, Peugot, Citroën, Skoda, BMW, Volvo and Seat and the far eastern thingies.


----------



## DW58

Good review in Autocar - in conclusion,



> "Delivers unspectacular excellence across the board. The Boss is back".
> 
> "The best hatchback in the world just got better"


*Top 5 Hatchbacks:*
*VW Golf 2.0 TDi SE* (4.5*) Classless, functional, immaculate, no hatchback has broader appeal.
*Ford Focus 2.0 TDCi Titanium* (4*) Good value, practical and with excellent dynamics but not as stylish and rewarding as before.
*Audi A3 TDi Sport* (4*) Superb cabin and ownership prospects, and plenty of brand allure. Punchy but uninvolving.
*Volvo V40 D3 SE* (3.5*) Smart, pleasant and useable. Could be cheaper, though, and diesels could be better. 
*BMW 118D Sport* (3.5*) Sporting and fun to drive. Much improved on quality, but not refined or practical enough.
Where's the Astra and Pugs/Citroën, Far Eastern hatches etc.?


----------



## possul

DW58 said:


> Good review in Autocar - in conclusion,
> 
> *Top 5 Hatchbacks:*
> *VW Golf 2.0 TDi SE* (4.5*) Classless, functional, immaculate, no hatchback has broader appeal.
> *Ford Focus 2.0 TDCi Titanium* (4*) Good value, practical and with excellent dynamics but not as stylish and rewarding as before.
> *Audi A3 TDi Sport* (4*) Superb cabin and ownership prospects, and plenty of brand allure. Punchy but uninvolving.
> *Volvo V40 D3 SE* (3.5*) Smart, pleasant and useable. Could be cheaper, though, and diesels could be better.
> *BMW 118D Sport* (3.5*) Sporting and fun to drive. Much improved on quality, but not refined or practical enough.
> Where's the Astra and Pugs/Citroën, Far Eastern hatches etc.?


Is that for newest shape focus?
Not as stylish or rewarding, far better car than the last focus which is quite a bland car. But hey ho.


----------



## RisingPower

DW58 said:


> To be honest nor do I - but there again there are so many commercials which I struggle with, perhaps it's why I tend to record much of the TV I watch so I can fast-forward through the ad-spots.
> 
> To me, looks are not one of the most important factors in choosing a car, but generic or not I still like the Golf.
> 
> What a good job we're not all Golf fans or there'd be a shortage of them - luckily other folks buy the Ford, Vauxhall, Peugot, Citroën, Skoda, BMW, Volvo and Seat and the far eastern thingies.


You know, there are manufacturers outside the eu, far east and america.


----------



## DW58

Such as?

Cars of any consequence?


----------



## RisingPower

DW58 said:


> Such as?
> 
> Cars of any consequence?


Nissan skyline r34, gtr, nsx, supra, evo... Bet there are others I haven't thought of.


----------



## DW58

But those are Far Eastern and not hatchbacks.

I have owned Japanese cars in the past (2x Isuzu Trooper; 1x Subaru Legacy Estate) but have little inclination to own any of the current offerings except perhaps another Legacy which was one of the best cars I've ever owed in 35 years of running my own car, a far better estate than the Audi A6 I replaced it with.


----------



## RisingPower

DW58 said:


> But those are Far Eastern and not hatchbacks.
> 
> I have owned Japanese cars in the past (2x Isuzu Trooper; 1x Subaru Legacy Estate) but have little inclination to own any of the current offerings except perhaps another Legacy which was one of the best cars I've ever owed in 35 years of running my own car, a far better estate than the Audi A6 I replaced it with.


Damn, always thought far east was only countries like korea... 

Subaru impreza sti is a hatch, but, far eastern.


----------



## SteveTDCi

DW58 said:


> Good review in Autocar - in conclusion,
> 
> *Top 5 Hatchbacks:*
> *VW Golf 2.0 TDi SE* (4.5*) Classless, functional, immaculate, no hatchback has broader appeal.
> *Ford Focus 2.0 TDCi Titanium* (4*) Good value, practical and with excellent dynamics but not as stylish and rewarding as before.
> *Audi A3 TDi Sport* (4*) Superb cabin and ownership prospects, and plenty of brand allure. Punchy but uninvolving.
> *Volvo V40 D3 SE* (3.5*) Smart, pleasant and useable. Could be cheaper, though, and diesels could be better.
> *BMW 118D Sport* (3.5*) Sporting and fun to drive. Much improved on quality, but not refined or practical enough.
> Where's the Astra and Pugs/Citroën, Far Eastern hatches etc.?


It did say that it was average at everything rather than brilliant at everything, which does sum the golf up. I specced a fully loaded golf 1.4 tsi last night and it was 33k .... You could buy a proper car for that


----------



## RisingPower

Also didn't realise norway was outside the eu


----------



## DW58

It is, the Norwegians voted against EU membership - and the Norwegian cars are?


----------



## Avanti

DW58 said:


> It is, the Norwegians voted against EU membership - and the *Norwegian cars are?*


Troll  :lol:


----------



## DW58

Avanti said:


> Troll  :lol:


I'm impressed, and I thought you were taking the **** until I clicked on the link


----------



## Avanti

DW58 said:


> I'm impressed, and I thought you were taking the **** until I clicked on the link


It looks a nice motor though :thumb:


----------



## Kerr

SteveTDCi said:


> It did say that it was average at everything rather than brilliant at everything, which does sum the golf up. I specced a fully loaded golf 1.4 tsi last night and it was 33k .... You could buy a proper car for that


It was odd reading the report, then to come up with the conclusion.

Somehow in categories where the journalist seemed really negative but then somehow gave it a great score.

I've left the magazine at work for correct quotations, but he described the driving aspect (quite important) as pretty dull and the handling had its limitations.

It is also slow. It just scraped under 10secs for 60mph and 28secs for 100mph using the 150bhp diesel. That is very slow by todays standards.

It didn't do well on the dry test track compared to the Volvo but did in the wet.

Still he awarded it 4.5 out of 5 for ride and handling. The scores didn't seem to fit the review.

Pricing is mental. Nobody car argue that. Looking at the list prices of the Audi A3 I it seems the Golf is the big brother these days.

Also reading the magazine I noticed another odd one. Autocar put the new Focus ST against the Astra GTC VXR and the Astra was significantly faster.

Their videos showed the Astra leaving the ST for dead on the straights.

However they have the VXR 0-100MPH in 16.5 and the ST 15.0secs which makes no sense.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Golf is almost an 80% car, it does everything well but nothing outstanding, don't get me wrong people will buy it and love it because it's a golf, it is a classless car and by that I mean anyone could own one and it wouldn't look out of pace at the poshest of places. All mid size cars are getting expensive the focus would be the more fun, the Astra looks better, the Octavia more space and the Koreans better warrantys, but as an average the golf comes out. It will be interesting to see how the Leon and Octavia come out against the golf. No doubt they will come out worse because they are not a golf.


----------



## RisingPower

DW58 said:


> It is, the Norwegians voted against EU membership - and the Norwegian cars are?


Koenigsegg, again, not exactly hatches, but fantastic cars.


----------



## Maggi200

RisingPower said:


> Koenigsegg, again, not exactly hatches, but fantastic cars.


Might as well be a hatch, it's as much a hatch as it is Norwegian...


----------



## DW58

RisingPower said:


> Koenigsegg, again, not exactly hatches, but fantastic cars.


Would that be the Swedish part of Norway where Koenigsegg don't make hatchbacks? 

Wiki = Koenigsegg


----------



## RisingPower

DW58 said:


> Would that be the Swedish part of Norway where Koenigsegg don't make hatchbacks?
> 
> Wiki = Koenigsegg


Yes I know they don't make hatches 

http://www.koenigseggnorway.com/

They're also in norway  (I know their hq is in sweden)


----------



## eddie bullit

Golfs are average cars IMO..do nothing badly and nothing great..a true middle of the road car. Seen by owners to mean quality. No different really to any other european brand. 
Before anyone says quality of the dashboard plastics doesnt signify quality to me. Bits not falling off or rattling does.
Edd
ps. always age well though..perhaps because they never push the design envelope.


----------



## SteveTDCi

RisingPower said:


> I just don't get the latest golf ad either, chucking some water, at a golf?


Water washes over the car and they show the bits that are updated, water = fountain of youth ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_of_Youth

that's all i can think of


----------



## rf860

After all the *****ing and moaning about golfs, i've only went and bought one ha ha. Not a mk7, a mk5 Golf gti edition 30. Loved the look and drive of it, so went for it.


----------



## Avanti

rf860 said:


> After all the *****ing and moaning about golfs,* i've only went and bought one ha ha.* Not a mk7, a mk5 Golf gti edition 30. Loved the look and drive of it, so went for it.


But mate, you could have something else for cheaper


----------



## DW58

:lol:


----------



## rf860

Avanti said:


> But mate, you could have something else for cheaper


I considered a few options tbh.

Leon Cupra - nice but, interior is really plastic even though well built
Focus ST - MPG not as good as golf, interior very dated and don't like the swathes of grey plastic
Mazda 3 MPS - like these, but MPG poor.
Skoda Octavia VRS - very dated now
Astra VXR - really like the look of these, but handling not up to much apparently and common on the road.

I chose the ED30 for the exclusivity and the extra power. Roll on Wednesday!


----------



## farley2708

did the 'designer'(s) get fed-up or couldnt be a*sed when they came to the rear of the car


----------



## Avanti

farley2708 said:


> did the 'designer'(s) get fed-up or couldnt be a*sed when they came to the rear of the car


It's possibly to annoy the haters sitting behind


----------



## Maggi200

I've just looked at the dash board, and without having the two side by side... But have the nicked the centre console from a corvette?


----------



## SteveTDCi

Got my demo coming on the 20th, goes back on the 21st, I've requested the 1.6tdi se.


----------



## j3ggo

Think I am going to order a mk7 2.0 ti se 5dr 150bhp solid black with Vienna leather in Marrakech. Can get 10% discount, can any of you guys get better?


----------



## DW58

The 2.0/150 handles beautifully and that sounds like a great spec, but IMO VW's leather is a ridiculous price which I just wouldn't pay - I'd rather stick with the standard upholstery and perhaps spend on some more useful toys.


----------



## j3ggo

DW58 said:


> The 2.0/150 handles beautifully and that sounds like a great spec, but IMO VW's leather is a ridiculous price which I just wouldn't pay - I'd rather stick with the standard upholstery and perhaps spend on some more useful toys.


Leather is 1800 with discount, expensive I know but nice.


----------



## andy665

I'd stick with cloth and use the money saved to get a good quality leather re-trim - more options on colours, better quality leather and cheaper


----------



## DW58

j3ggo said:


> Leather is 1800 with discount, expensive I know but nice.


Sorry, but I'm just not convinced by VW's leather. I love the Mk.7 but I wouldn't spend that much on leather, plus I've seen too many problems with VW leather over the years - two out of three leather-upholstered Golfs my parents owned had problems with both materials and workmanship on leather seats.

Have you considered buying the Mk.7 GT 2.0/150 rather than the SE 2.0/150 with leather. The GT has some great toys as standard such as SATNAV.


----------



## andy665

£1800 when half of it is actually vinyl, you get a full set of nice leather aftermarket fitted for 2/3 of that


----------



## j3ggo

DW58 said:


> Sorry, but I'm just not convinced by VW's leather. I love the Mk.7 but I wouldn't spend that much on leather, plus I've seen too many problems with VW leather over the years - two out of three leather-upholstered Golfs my parents owned had problems with both materials and workmanship on leather seats.
> 
> Have you considered buying the Mk.7 GT 2.0/150 rather than the SE 2.0/150 with leather. The GT has some great toys as standard such as SATNAV.


I know it comes with nav but I believe you have to activate it and that costs another 500. I don't use nav a lot so that put me off a gt plus its lower which is not so good when towing. I like leather for another reason than just being nice too, that the fact that its easier to keep clean with our small kids clambering over it. In no rush, want it to be the right one.


----------



## SteveTDCi

I had the leather in my mk5, it was poor quality. The side bolsters are rears are all vinyl, only the seat face is leather and cheap stuff at that. I would just spec the winter pack and then get someone to fit a proper leather interior.


----------



## j3ggo

SteveTDCi said:


> I had the leather in my mk5, it was poor quality. The side bolsters are rears are all vinyl, only the seat face is leather and cheap stuff at that. I would just spec the winter pack and then get someone to fit a proper leather interior.


Thanks, sounds good advice. Disappointing of vw to only fit vinyl stuff though.


----------



## rf860

j3ggo said:


> Thanks, sounds good advice. Disappointing of vw to only fit vinyl stuff though.


BMW do the same on many on their models, it's prone to cracking and looks horrible when it does. Poor show....


----------



## andy665

BMW and Mercedes offer "official" artificial leather and proper leather

The proper leather in most vehicles is always a mixture of leather on the seat facings and artificial leather on the seat base sides, backrest sides and seat backs etc, the only leather is the seat facings


----------



## j3ggo

Best price so far for 2.0 tdi se 5 dr is 19975. Can any of you guys better that?


----------



## bigmc

£20K for a golf! :doublesho


----------



## j3ggo

bigmc said:


> £20K for a golf! :doublesho


I think it's not a bad price. Can do much worse and depreciation is low.


----------



## Kerr

There is a bit in Autocar this week about the new Golf GTi confirmed as 217bhp. 

I remember a few years back VW fell right off the radar as they were so far behind the competition people turned their backs at their hotter offerings. People were critical.

People had a hard time calling the MK6 an all rounder excusing its lack of performance against the competition in a bracket where performance is vitally important. 

All the ither manufacturers have pushed the barrier forward another level and VW haven't. I think they really had to do more.


----------



## Kerr

bigmc said:


> £20K for a golf! :doublesho





j3ggo said:


> Best price so far for 2.0 tdi se 5 dr is 19975. Can any of you guys better that?


Seems cheap from what I've seen.

I used the VW website to configure a 1.4 GT and found I was over £30k with just a few reasonable options.

£20k doesn't seem bad at all but it must be very basic spec considering the price of the underpowered 1.2.


----------



## Dixondmn

Kerr said:


> There is a bit in Autocar this week about the new Golf GTi confirmed as 217bhp.
> 
> I remember a few years back VW fell right off the radar as they were so far behind the competition people turned their backs at their hotter offerings. People were critical.
> 
> People had a hard time calling the MK6 an all rounder excusing its lack of performance against the competition in a bracket where performance is vitally important.
> 
> All the ither manufacturers have pushed the barrier forward another level and VW haven't. I think they really had to do more.


A hot hatch isnt about top end performance figures, because in reality you'll never see those figure.
A hot hatch in my eyes is about how it makes you feel as a driver and the overall experience.

VW have never got the steering response or feel quite right on the golf whatever the flavour. Something which i'd like to hope has been improved on the MK7. 
We shall wait and see.


----------



## Hardsworth

dave955 said:


> Mmmm definitely evolution not revolution


thats exactly what I thought when I seen it :thumb:


----------



## andy665

A 1.4GT 5 door manual is £22960 - you'd have to be going some to spec to £30k

Add in metallic, winter pack, colour info display and you are still at sub £24k

Factor in 7.5% discount (easily available) and £1000 deposit subsidy if you choose the low rate PCP and you at about £20,300

Which gets you a well specified car that will hold its value, will age well and do the job just as well if not better than anything else in its class - unless of course the 800k people who buy them every year and most of the motoring Press have got it completely wrong and keep getting it wrong year in year out


----------



## Kerr

andy665 said:


> A 1.4GT 5 door manual is £22960 - you'd have to be going some to spec to £30k
> 
> Add in metallic, winter pack, colour info display and you are still at sub £24k
> 
> Factor in 7.5% discount (easily available) and £1000 deposit subsidy if you choose the low rate PCP and you at about £20,300


DSG box, 18 inch wheels metallic paint, sat nav and leather puts it at £30k.

Minus the box you get that in a Focus ST3 with 250bhp for £25k.


----------



## DW58

Ah, but it's not a Golf


----------



## bigmc

No it's better.


----------



## Dixondmn

bigmc said:


> No it's better.


That's subjective. But yes it does most tangible, measurable things better.

If it were a game of top trumps I know which card I'd want to be holding. (except the Price tag!)


----------



## andy665

Kerr said:


> DSG box, 18 inch wheels metallic paint, sat nav and leather puts it at £30k.
> 
> Minus the box you get that in a Focus ST3 with 250bhp for £25k.


Any you'd have to be mad to spec a mid range hatchback up like that - asking for a huge hit come resale time - just because you can doesn't mean you need to - the GT is pretty well specified as standard

Agreed though the Focus ST is a better buy


----------



## DW58

Frankly, I don't give a Tinker's cuss what Kerr, bigmc and the other Golf-haters say, they can troll as much as they like and it doesn't achieve anything and won't influence me or the other Golf-fans here as we know what we like.

I don't even open Focus/Astra/Pug or other hatchback threads because they simply don't interest me. I've only taken a half-serious look at one other hatchback in recent years and it failed at the first hurdle.

29 million plus buyers can't be wrong.



> All-the-car-you'll-ever-need car of the Year 2012: VW Golf
> 
> "Top and bottom: a Golf is no more car than you need, yet it can be all the car you want..."


Luckily it's a free country, haters like you guys won't make any difference. No doubt I'll be slammed for this by the usual suspects for daring to fight back, just the same as I get for daring to support Apple 

The one thing I simply can't understand is why you are so inadequate that you have to keep on whinging - go back to your Fords/Vauxhalls/BMWs or whatever gives you wood p:


----------



## RisingPower

It's a heck of a lot of money for any hatch imho, be it a golf, focus etc.

I wouldn't say any of those cars are significantly different, they all appeal to different people, but as you know, I can't get over how dull the newer golfs look, it may be a great car, but it's totally uninspiring to look at.

Tbh even the focus's, most bmws aren't that inspiring to look at, but they do at least slightly change the design every so often.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Golf fans are more like here my wallet, take my money.


----------



## bigmc

SteveTDCi said:


> Golf fans are more like here my wallet, take my money.


They normally go for crapple products too.


----------



## Kerr

DW58 said:


> Frankly, I don't give a Tinker's cuss what Kerr, bigmc and the other Golf-haters say, they can troll as much as they like and it doesn't achieve anything and won't influence me or the other Golf-fans here as we know what we like.
> 
> I don't even open Focus/Astra/Pug or other hatchback threads because they simply don't interest me. I've only taken a half-serious look at one other hatchback in recent years and it failed at the first hurdle.
> 
> 29 million plus buyers can't be wrong.
> 
> Luckily it's a free country, haters like you guys won't make any difference. No doubt I'll be slammed for this by the usual suspects for daring to fight back, just the same as I get for daring to support Apple
> 
> The one thing I simply can't understand is why you are so inadequate that you have to keep on whinging - go back to your Fords/Vauxhalls/BMWs or whatever gives you wood p:


Do me a favour for the 40th millionth time.

Stop all this haters nonsense.

Why do you keep reposting the same lines when it someone has an opinion that doesn't agree with your own self inflated opinion?

You are just a bitter single minded man.


----------



## Dixondmn

DW58 said:


> Frankly, I don't give a Tinker's cuss what Kerr, bigmc and the other Golf-haters say, they can troll as much as they like and it doesn't achieve anything and won't influence me or the other Golf-fans here as we know what we like.
> 
> I don't even open Focus/Astra/Pug or other hatchback threads because they simply don't interest me. I've only taken a half-serious look at one other hatchback in recent years and it failed at the first hurdle.
> 
> 29 million plus buyers can't be wrong.
> 
> Luckily it's a free country, haters like you guys won't make any difference. No doubt I'll be slammed for this by the usual suspects for daring to fight back, just the same as I get for daring to support Apple
> 
> The one thing I simply can't understand is why you are so inadequate that you have to keep on whinging - go back to your Fords/Vauxhalls/BMWs or whatever gives you wood p:


No one here's a hater. just stating some facts, mainly that the golf is expensive. I read earlier in this thread that someone looked at one and found it to be lovely, well built etc etc, but couldn't justiify £30k knowing they would look out the window every morning and see a 'Just a Golf'.

Lets be honest, we're talking about a family hatchback, be it a Focus, Astra or Golf (or anything in that segment), they're all shopping carts at the end of the day, and for a lot of people 'the wifes car or second car'. (No offence intended to anyone.) and thats coming from me... a Focus owner, and Apple fan.


----------



## DW58

RisingPower said:


> It's a heck of a lot of money for any hatch imho, be it a golf, focus etc.
> 
> I wouldn't say any of those cars are significantly different, they all appeal to different people, but as you know, I can't get over how dull the newer golfs look, it may be a great car, but it's totally uninspiring to look at.
> 
> Tbh even the focus's, most bmws aren't that inspiring to look at, but they do at least slightly change the design every so often.


I have to agree with you, but there's nothing wrong with the look of the Mk7 Golf, and bland or not it ticks all of the boxes for me.

All in all, the only person who actually matters is the customer - I prefer the look of the Golf to any of the competition, the Focus is bland to my eye, Astras and 1-series Beemers are downright ugly, all Peugeots look like they were designed by a Parliament of Baboons, and Citroëns just look quirky - as for the Far Eastern hatchbacks ... ... ... well they all look the same to me.

That aside it's all a personal view, I don't mind a reasoned criticism such as yours, but so many of the haters post as though theirs is the only opinion which matters.


----------



## DW58

Kerr said:


> Do me a favour for the 40th millionth time.
> 
> Stop all this haters nonsense.
> 
> Why do you keep reposting the same lines when it someone has an opinion that doesn't agree with your own self inflated opinion?
> 
> You are just a bitter single minded man.


No need for insults - everyone is entitled to an opinion, trouble is you always think yours is the only one worthy of consideration.

You need to take your blinkers off and see that you also post the same old twaddle every time - if you don't like something it's wrong.

Accept the fact that what you don't like is only an opinion.


----------



## Avanti

Kerr said:


> DSG box, 18 inch wheels metallic paint, sat nav and leather puts it at £30k.
> 
> Minus the box you get that in a Focus ST3 with 250bhp for £25k.


Just had a look on the Ford Uk site
Unable to configure to a exact same spec

Your vehicle
Bodystyle 5 Door
Series Zetec
Engine & Transmission 2.0 TDCi 140 PS (DPF) S5
PowerShift

Base price £21,150.00
Customer Saving £750.00

Selected options
Micastone Metallic £525.00
Hcl Rack/Geccharcoal £0.00
Appearance Pack - Zetec £525.00
- Privacy glass, 17'' Alloy (7x17'')
Ford DAB Navigation System £750.00
Premium Centre Console £250.00
Cruise Control with Active Speed Limiter £250.00
Convenience Pack £675.00
- Active Park Assist, powerfold mirrors, Includes power 1 shot up/down front & rear windows and global closing on Zetec / Zetec S (not available on 1.6 Duratec 105PS or 1.6 Duratec Powershift Auto)

Price Summary 
Total price * £23,375.00


----------



## Dixondmn

Avanti said:


> Just had a look on the Ford Uk site
> Unable to configure to a exact same spec
> 
> Your vehicle
> Bodystyle 5 Door
> Series Zetec
> *Engine & Transmission 2.0 TDCi 140 PS (DPF) S5*
> PowerShift
> 
> Price Summary
> Total price * £23,375.00


Assuming your quoted post was what you were trying to spec up, you've not specc'd an ST.


----------



## Kerr

DW58 said:


> No need for insults - everyone is entitled to an opinion, trouble is you always think yours is the only one worthy of consideration.
> 
> You need to take your blinkers off and see that you also post the same old twaddle every time - if you don't like something it's wrong.
> 
> Accept the fact that what you don't like is only an opinion.


Irony to the maximum level.

I'm not even going to waste time to respond in depth.

I don't recall saying too much against the Golf other than it is too expensive and if the GTi is only 217bhp that isn't enough for a hot hatch.

Both valid opinions many would agree to.

Laughable.


----------



## Avanti

Dixondmn said:


> Assuming your quoted post was what you were trying to spec up, you've not specc'd an ST.


I didn't spec an ST as that is equivalent to the GTI which is not available yet.


----------



## Kerr

Avanti said:


> I didn't spec an ST as that is equivalent to the GTI which is not available yet.


I compared the hottest available petrol Golf against the hottest petrol Focus. You've compared a 1.4 petrol to a 2.0 diesel.

The GT is supposed to offer performance after all.


----------



## andy665

Kerr said:


> The GT is supposed to offer performance after all.


Can't find anything on the VW website that sees the GT being marketed as a performance car - GT is a spec level

Comparing the GT 2.0TDi DSG with the Focus Titanium p/shift the Golf is approx £2400 more expensive but has radar cruise control, satnav, power fold mirrors and front / rear parking sensors - so not exactly a million miles apart are they?

Horses for courses - good news for the customer is that there is a car out there to suit everyone, whether it be a Golf, Focus or cars from any number of other manufacturers


----------



## Dixondmn

andy665 said:


> Can't find anything on the VW website that sees the GT being marketed as a performance car - GT is a spec level


Agreed GT is just a spec model with some minor styling accents, like cherry rear lights, and a gloss black grill, it was the GTD model which had the same 2.0 Diesel but with a a 170bhp map instead of the 140bph map.


----------



## Kerr

andy665 said:


> Can't find anything on the VW website that sees the GT being marketed as a performance car - GT is a spec level


What would you deem it to be? I'd always considered the GT models to be warm hatches. The GTi to be a hot hatch.

It does market it as sporty style and luxurious. That is stretching is a bit.

Don't the GT models get more power?


----------



## andy665

Kerr said:


> What would you deem it to be? I'd always considered the GT models to be warm hatches. The GTi to be a hot hatch.
> 
> It does market it as sporty style and luxurious. That is stretching is a bit.
> 
> Don't the GT models get more power?


No more power, GT is a trim level. On the Mk5 the 170PS diesel was only available in GT and later GT Sport spec but that's no longer the case. The GT is the approximate equivalent of Fords Titanium trim


----------



## should_do_more

Hang on....I thought the GT Sport was a fuel efficient gti?

Lower suspension, better kit, similar styling and an engine not available in the regular models?

By that I mean performance but a small engine.

Mines got a supercharger and turbocharger, it's petrol and nippier than the other models were at the time.


----------



## Avanti

should_do_more said:


> *Hang on....I thought the GT Sport was a fuel efficient gti?*
> 
> Lower suspension, better kit, similar styling and an engine not available in the regular models?
> 
> By that I mean performance but a small engine.
> 
> Mines got a supercharger and turbocharger, it's petrol and nippier than the other models were at the time.


Are you saying a GTI is not fuel effecient?


----------



## should_do_more

Meant 'more' fuel efficient.

By that the GT has a small engine and power only comes in when needed so overall a better mpg.


Right I'm done editing my fat finger work....on my iPad....


----------



## Avanti

should_do_more said:


> Meant 'more' fuel efficient.
> 
> By that the GT has a* small engine and power only comes in when needed so overall a better mpg.*
> 
> Right I'm done editing my fat finger work....on my iPad....


Small engines are not always more economical, as they have to often be turning more RPM to develop the same torque/power, gentle acceleration is where the driver will save fuel, in everyday use , it would be interesting to learn if the TSI is really giving 40mpg+ urban driving without nearing violating section 169 of the highway code


----------



## robsri

DW58 said:


> Frankly, I don't give a Tinker's cuss what Kerr, bigmc and the other Golf-haters say, they can troll as much as they like and it doesn't achieve anything and won't influence me or the other Golf-fans here as we know what we like.
> 
> I don't even open Focus/Astra/Pug or other hatchback threads because they simply don't interest me. I've only taken a half-serious look at one other hatchback in recent years and it failed at the first hurdle.
> 
> 29 million plus buyers can't be wrong.
> 
> Luckily it's a free country, haters like you guys won't make any difference. No doubt I'll be slammed for this by the usual suspects for daring to fight back, just the same as I get for daring to support Apple
> 
> The one thing I simply can't understand is why you are so inadequate that you have to keep on whinging - go back to your Fords/Vauxhalls/BMWs or whatever gives you wood p:


The title of this thread is Golf, likey or no likey. Why ask no likey if your going to react to peoples opinions that disagree with your own? Prehaps you should of added "Postive golf comments only" ?


----------



## Dixondmn

robsri said:


> The title of this thread is Golf, likey or no likey. Why ask no likey if your going to react to peoples opinions that disagree with your own? Prehaps you should of added "Postive golf comments only" ?


in fairness, the thread was started before anyone had seen one in the 'metal' so to speak.


----------



## should_do_more

Avanti said:


> Small engines are not always more economical, as they have to often be turning more RPM to develop the same torque/power, gentle acceleration is where the driver will save fuel, in everyday use , it would be interesting to learn if the TSI is really giving 40mpg+ urban driving without nearing violating section 169 of the highway code


Errr....my wife can get it to do its claimed mpg. I can't!


----------



## Avanti

should_do_more said:


> Errr....my wife can get it to do its claimed mpg. I can't!


I had use of an A3 1.4 diesel last year, overall it returned 45mpg, however when it came to everyday tasks like passing a parked bus, then the gears had to be used and the economy soon dropped back to mid 30s, my 2 litre petrol on the other hand rarely sees 2000rpm unless on the NSL roads but overall around town I get 32mpg 
I suspect your Mrs driving style is somewhat 'less agressive' than yours and if she were driving my car, the same style would perhaps get upper 30s for the same journeys.


----------



## Grommit

Interior is nice, exterior boring


----------



## j3ggo

Well had a go in a gt today 150bhp tdi dsg 5 door. It's 10mm lower than se spec. Did seem too low when fully laden with the tribe in, which would make the caravan sit on an odd angle when towing. Torn between se and gt at the moment. Did not like dsg, did not seem in control of engine. Nice car tho. Still think I will go for solid black. Need to study it a bit more before pushing the button. Sunroof is nice but that another 900.


----------



## Avanti

How come nobody (I think has mentioned the price of a near equivalent Megane)

Megane 265


----------



## SteveTDCi

Have you tried renaults website ? I wa on there today and it's hopeless. No wonder they cannot sell anything. I think the difference between the mainstream is that although the list prices are high the discounts are massive, drive the deal will get you £5500 off a focus 1.6t titanium


----------



## T.D.K

Saw one today, pretty much the same as the last golf with more square tail lights and sharper body panels. 

Not a car you think WOW THAT'S BEAUTIFUL.


----------



## SteveTDCi

It's evolution not revolution, Astra, focus guillieta all look much nicer. My demo turns up on the 18th feb.


----------



## Buckweed

Boring boring boring... Same as ever, you could place this car in 1997 and it would still blend in. The inside look very nice but that's it . Come on VW be brave and give us something to make us say WOW ! :tumbleweed:


----------



## SteveTDCi

It won't happen as that's not what vw customers want.


----------



## Avanti

Buckweed said:


> Boring boring boring... Same as ever, you could place this car in 1997 and it would still blend in. The inside look very nice but that's it . Come on VW be brave and give us something to make us say WOW ! :tumbleweed:


They already have it's called a Bugatti Veyron


----------



## bigmc

Even that's a bore.


----------



## RisingPower

SteveTDCi said:


> It won't happen as that's not what vw customers want.


I don't know, I find the scirocco rather good. It's just for me they've been so lazy with styling the golf as they know they don't really have to bother.


----------



## SteveTDCi

rocco is ok but i think the best looking VW is the Passat CC or CC as its known now. There are not many good looking cars out there at the minute, they all follow the corporate line and look the same, even Astons do it. The only thing that looks different at the minute is the DS5 although i'm not sure thats a looker either. The only mainstream car that looks nice is the current Astra.


----------



## Dixondmn

SteveTDCi said:


> The only mainstream car that looks nice is the current Astra.


I think the Giulietta is a much prettier take on the Astra, and arguably mainstream.


----------



## Gruffs

Dixondmn said:


> I think the Giulietta is a much prettier take on the Astra, and arguably mainstream.


Me too! :thumb:


----------



## T.D.K

Dixondmn said:


> I think the Giulietta is a much prettier take on the Astra, and arguably mainstream.


I did consider the Giuletta but I strictly wanted a three door, the Mito was a bit too cheap inside so went for the GTC.

They do look lovely though in five door form.:thumb:


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Not really keen on the MK7 (especially the interior - bleuugh!)

I'm quite happy with my MK6. :thumb:


----------



## uruk hai

I do like it, from what I can gather it looks like a good step forward but time will tell ?


----------



## SteveTDCi

Up we go again, my demo has arrived. It's a black 1.6tdi se, outside still looks dull, inside it's all a bit grey but the fit and finish is very good, the dark metallic brushed finish looks nice. The new informant system is very good and I do like the active cruise control. More to follow.


----------



## Andrew Goacher

Looks nice, seems they have based the back end from a passat estate. But still looks damn fine! Might start saving....


----------



## SteveTDCi

Not had chance to say to much about it, a quick summary would br, if your given one as accompany car to cover 20k a year in then you won't be dissapointed, yes it likes old fashioned from the out side and it's a bit grey inside but it is screwed together very well. It's not entertaining to drive and I found it a bit uncomfortable but I'm sure it will sell well.


----------



## JA0395

I saw a black one parked up on my street today with fogs, I think it was an SE, It definatley looks better in the flesh than in the press pics, interesting thing was that it was on German plates, LHD and was a Europcar rental. someone was eager haha.


----------



## SteveTDCi

My demo was a black 1.6tdi se.


----------



## JA0395

Does it have pram wheels for alloys?  They looked tiny!


----------



## SteveTDCi

16's i think ... made for a comfortable ride though


----------



## xJay1337

http://www.worldcarfans.com/113022154117/volkswagen-golf-vii-gtd-revealed-ahead-of-geneva-arrival


----------



## JA0395

I'm quite impressed with the look of GTD, it doesn't look like a half finished GTI conversion anymore.


----------



## insanejim69

^^ Interior looks good, especially the steering wheel. 

But jesus DSG = NO NO !!! I just got rid of my Seat Ibiza 1.4TSi FR DSG after just 4 months of ownership !!. Had the most recent updates to the gearbox software and was still a stupid gearbox in and around town, dim witted, didn't know what to do at times, huge delays in gear changes at roundabout and junctions etc etc.  ..... on an open road though and pushing hard it was fun. 

Not normally a Golf fan, but those GTD pics look good. If not exactly like the current outgoing model though 

James


----------



## xJay1337

Had a proper look around some at the dealer today, lower spec models look a bit bland but at the top end they look perfectly acceptable with some nice wheels.

Irrespective of which the interior is a bloody amazing, well finished and tactile place to be. Everything is where it should be and it's well built and finished to a high standard with lots of soft-touch.


----------



## andy665

The new 217hp GTI starts at £25,845 for a three-door manual, the DSG version £27,260.

The five-door is £26,500 for a manual, £27,915 for DSG

Performance Pack adding 10hp, vented rear discs, active diff adds £1k

BMW - congratulations - with the M135i you have just cleaned up, no one in their right minds will buy the GTi


----------



## DW58

andy665 said:


> BMW - congratulations - with the M135i you have just cleaned up, no one in their right minds will buy the GTi


I suspect you'll be eating those words in a few months. The Mk.7 Golf GTi will sell, and sell very well. I doubt the little Beemer will worry Wolfsburg too much, after all it's just not a GTi is it?


----------



## TubbyTwo

andy665 said:


> Performance Pack adding 10hp, vented rear discs, active diff adds £1k


10hp, what the hell is the point of that. Decent remap would be half that price and give better results.

227hp isnt exactly going to blow any skirts up either. Can we expect another round of those horrifically nasty tartan print seats as well?


----------



## insanejim69

So for an extra £1k, you get 10BHP more (and that will be a peak figure, so will be considerably less over the rev range) a fancy diff, and rear vented discs. Why in gods name would you need rear vented discs on a car that only has 227BHP ? . :lol: 

Don't get me wrong it will sell very well as DW58 says. But with that power its really lagging behind alot. No doubt its been underpowered so that when the Golf R arrives it doesn't show it up.

I also wouldn't pay the extra £1500 for DSG, had it on my Ibiza FR 1.4TSi and it was terrible in town. Even after the latest software flash updates.  Would def have to be a proper manual.

James


----------



## SteveTDCi

You would buy the bland looking golf because it doesn't look as fugley as the BMW, but the BMW would make the better bargain, but for only 22k new I think I'd have a brand new focus st


----------



## insanejim69

SteveTDCi said:


> You would buy the bland looking golf because it doesn't look as fugley as the BMW, but the BMW would make the better bargain, but for only 22k new I think I'd have a brand new focus st


Guy I work with just bought a new Focus ST, picks it up on Friday. Showroom model brand new £20180  :thumb:

James


----------



## rf860

Focus is even more ugly than BMW tho. And interior is very cheap looking and feeling IMO. 

Residuals wouldn't fare as well as either the BMW or the Golf i'd imagine.


----------



## xJay1337

SteveTDCi said:


> You would buy the bland looking golf because it doesn't look as fugley as the BMW, but the BMW would make the better bargain, but for only 22k new I think I'd have a brand new focus st


And the Focus is hardly a glamour model either...


----------



## DW58

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ... ... ... if it wasn't we'd all be buying BMW Minis, and each time we blink they launch an even uglier variant, yet they still sell like hotcakes.

I totally agree that VW are taking the p!ss with the Golf GTi prices and especially some of the options, but as someone used to say, if you can afford it you don't need to ask the price or something on those lines.

To my taste the more recent GTi models (Mks. 5/6/7) have always looked a tad vulgar, I'd much rather have the understated look of the _R_ if I could afford it - which I can't ... ... ... apart from the horrible standard wheels.


----------



## xJay1337

How has a Golf Mk5 or 6 GTI ever looked "vulgar" ?
It was always the most understated looking car of the trio of hot hatches.. what's a an Astra VXR or Renault Megane RS like then?


----------



## rf860

DW58 said:


> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ... ... ... if it wasn't we'd all be buying BMW Minis, and each time we blink they launch an even uglier variant, yet they still sell like hotcakes.
> 
> I totally agree that VW are taking the p!ss with the Golf GTi prices and especially some of the options, but as someone used to say, if you can afford it you don't need to ask the price or something on those lines.
> 
> To my taste the more recent GTi models (Mks. 5/6/7) have always looked a tad vulgar, I'd much rather have the understated look of the _R_ if I could afford it - which I can't ... ... ... apart from the horrible standard wheels.


Vulgar, really? I've got a mk5 GTi Edition 30 and one of the main reasons i chose the golf was that it was understated looking. Compare mine against an Astra VXR, Focus ST or Renaultsport Megane and it looks like it should be a mid-range diesel model lol.


----------



## Avanti

andy665 said:


> The new 217hp GTI starts at £25,845 for a three-door manual, the DSG version £27,260.
> 
> The five-door is £26,500 for a manual, £27,915 for DSG
> 
> Performance Pack adding 10hp, vented rear discs, active diff adds £1k
> 
> BMW - congratulations - with the M135i you have just cleaned up, no one in their right minds will buy the GTi


Andy where did you see the prices for the GTI?
I new there was a sports pack edition but didn't think anything would be announced before the Geneva motor show.


----------



## Maggi200

It's on loads of websites today.

TBH it doesn't look like anything that would make me go wow, and want to buy it. But I would definitely buy a car that does something for me, and can see something worth more than the sum of it's parts. 

But for a lot of people I guess it will do it for them, and a Golf is a Golf, and it will need to have the nicer badge. Cos Bob across the road only has a 1.4

Can see it selling millions


----------



## 182_Blue

DW58 said:


> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ... ... ... if it wasn't we'd all be buying BMW Minis, and each time we blink they launch an even uglier variant, yet they still sell like hotcakes.
> 
> I totally agree that VW are taking the p!ss with the Golf GTi prices and especially some of the options, but as someone used to say, if you can afford it you don't need to ask the price or something on those lines.
> 
> To my taste the more recent GTi models (Mks. 5/6/7) have always looked a tad vulgar, I'd much rather have the understated look of the _R_ if I could afford it - which I can't ... ... ... apart from the horrible standard wheels.


Maybe its just me but the R and the Gti look and are almost the same although the R has i wider mouth at the front that cant be described as more understated than the Gti !


----------



## DW58

I think my enthusiasm for the Golf is pretty obvious, but to my taste some features of the GTi are vulgar, such as the awful upholstery and ugly wheels, but that of course is purely my opinion, as is my comment about the _R_ being more understated than the GTi.

Yes, I agree that in comparison to other hot hatches such as the Astra VXR and Megane RS the Golf GTi is an altogether less vulgar/ugly, but as with all views they are personal and obviously open to individual interpretation. I would point out however that my comments related purely to a comparison to other Golfs and not to other hot hatches which are not the subject of this thread.

I'm as entitled to my opinion as the next man, mine just happens to be a bit different to the masses. I'm no Petrol Head, just a guy who owns and likes the Golf but has no ambition toward a pocket rocket.


----------



## SteveTDCi

rf860 said:


> Focus is even more ugly than BMW tho. And interior is very cheap looking and feeling IMO.
> 
> Residuals wouldn't fare as well as either the BMW or the Golf i'd imagine.


The amount you lose in cash would be very similar in 5 years a BMW would be worth 10k the focus 6k that means the focus would have lost 16k the BMW 22k. I never thought the golf as a vulgar car either, it's a classless car, you could turn up at a statley home and it wouldn't look out of place


----------



## Avanti

maggi133 said:


> It's on loads of websites today.
> 
> TBH it doesn't look like anything that would make me go wow, and want to buy it. But I would definitely buy a car that does something for me, and can see something worth more than the sum of it's parts.
> 
> But for a lot of people I guess it will do it for them, and a Golf is a Golf, and it will need to have the nicer badge. Cos Bob across the road only has a 1.4
> 
> Can see it selling millions


Yes found it now, mine is already up to £30K as the DSG version in oryx white and sunroof plus folding mirrors is a must for me, just trying to figure which are the Austin wheels


----------



## andy665

DW58 said:


> I suspect you'll be eating those words in a few months. The Mk.7 Golf GTi will sell, and sell very well. I doubt the little Beemer will worry Wolfsburg too much, after all it's just not a GTi is it?


The MK6 didn't


----------



## SteveTDCi

Less than 3% of the mk6 was a gti, the mk4 was the highest % but then again there wasn't as much choice back then. Now you have the r version and the scirocco's


----------



## SteveTDCi

Oh and the gti was the biggest selling hot hatch last year, 1800 compared to 700rs meganes


----------



## Mrizzle

I think there's a lot to like here in the new GTI. Ok they've played it kinda safe in the design but that isn't necessarily always a bad thing. It may not be as good looking as the new Astra VXR but you can rely on great build quality and finish.


----------



## Twizz

Can you tell - we've gone from having sharp lines and box looking cars to smooth curves and going back to how they used to be...

Does look quite nice, give it a year (or even a few months) and they'll be everywhere


----------



## Maggi200

Wow. Playing it safe, then fit THEM wheels?


----------



## Mrizzle

maggi133 said:


> Wow. Playing it safe, then fit THEM wheels?


Yeah...they're pretty outlandish right enough!


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Personally I do not like the MK7 & as a huge Golf fan, I never thought I'd say that, but I have, so there. 

I just think the shape of it is too similar to the MK6 except from the rear which is horrible & flat looking with silly shaped lights!

The interior next........uurrgghhh, it's just cheap, plasticy & has lost it's 'classy' feel & look to it. Ok, some new features implemented such as the electronic handbrake but in general not too much has changed in terms of spec.

So to rate it out of 10 the MK7 & with 10 being very good, I'd rate it 5.


----------



## possul

The mk7 only comes with fully independent rear suspension on the higher spec models.


----------



## Buck

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Personally I do not like the MK7 & as a huge Golf fan, I never thought I'd say that, but I have, so there.
> 
> I just think the shape of it is too similar to the MK6 except from the rear which is horrible & flat looking with silly shaped lights!
> 
> The interior next........uurrgghhh, it's just cheap, plasticy & has lost it's 'classy' feel & look to it. Ok, some new features implemented such as the electronic handbrake but in general not too much has changed in terms of spec.
> 
> So to rate it out of 10 the MK7 & with 10 being very good, I'd rate it 5.


I'm surprised re your comments on the interior - it is better in look and feel than your Mk6 (IMO) and I also own a Mk6 GTD so make that our Mk6s!

I think all Golfs are evolutionary rather than radical and having seen the GT in the flesh I was pleasantly surprised.

My worry is that to spec the GTI with Performance Pack / DSG / 5 doors / Metallic Paint I'm already up to £30k and that's without a couple more toys I'd want.

At least VW has woken up and put some decent spec on the GTI as standard i.e. Xenons;LED lights; Winter Pack; PArking Sensors etc. All of which should have been standard on the Mk6 like its rivals.

I'm not convinced I'm going to change mine until I've actually driven one when they are physically on the forecourts. Then I'll decide whether I stay in a Golf or move to AN Other car...


----------



## SteveTDCi

Mk7 is a vast improvement over the mk6,the interior is a bit grey but the way it's put together including the choice of materials is very good.


----------



## ElGaby

I love but, I whont the R32 (L)


----------



## Avanti

Must say, I'm dissapointed that the GTI/GTD will not have ADC as standard or an option and sat nav is not standard either 
The configurator went live yesterday.


----------



## Type.R

I personally like the mk7 golf, looks awesome inside & out, I do however prefer the look of the mk3 scirocco but I might be a bit bias being an owner of one :thumb:


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

*Spotted these MK7's lying in a compound today looking fresh in their wrappers! 

Looks mostly like SE's but did see a few GT's.*


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

*The new MK7 Golf GTI in Carbon Grey. :argie: :argie:*


----------



## DW58

Looks great except for the wheels which just don't do it for me.


----------



## PugIain

DW58 said:


> That dreary German hatchback has nasty wheels


Agree, they look like £9.99 Halfords specials.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

DW58 said:


> Looks great except for the wheels which just don't do it for me.


I actually quite like the wheels, I think they're 'Monzas' carrying on from the MK6.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Is it the mk6 with tape across the lights ?


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

SteveTDCi said:


> Is it the mk6 with tape across the lights ?


:lol:

Not too keen on the MK7 myself but the GTI looks ok.


----------



## possul

Sat in one the other day and couldn't tell the difference apart from different fabric.
A flat bottom steering wheel is nothing special, a vw up has one!
Badge on front wing looks very cheap
Seen the front end already, called a scirocco
Wheels aren't the best.
should be 250bhp at least.
It sits far to high for me

just a note im a vag car owner, VW employee not a hater etc etc etc


----------



## JA0395

I'm in love with the MK7, GT spec only though


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

possul said:


> Sat in one the other day and couldn't tell the difference apart from different fabric.
> A flat bottom steering wheel is nothing special, a vw up has one!
> Badge on front wing looks very cheap
> Seen the front end already, called a scirocco
> Wheels aren't the best.
> should be 250bhp at least.


IMO they brought out the MK7 far too early.

The MK6 was a good seller but I just don't understand why they made the premature release & production of the MK7.

Ho-hum.


----------



## Ross

I do like the new GTI the rest look really bland.


----------



## possul

Ross said:


> I do like the new GTI the rest look really bland.


what's the difference?


----------



## DW58

PugIain said:


> Agree, they look like £9.99 Halfords specials, which is exactly how much I paid for my Pug from the scrappy.


Touché.


----------



## possul

VW Golf-Fan said:


> IMO they brought out the MK7 far too early.
> 
> The MK6 was a good seller but I just don't understand why they made the premature release & production of the MK7.
> 
> Ho-hum.


id go no newer than a mk5 if I was to have a golf. Gt tri, maybe stretch to a mk6 gt tdi
To many things bug me about the mk7


----------



## rf860

possul said:


> Sat in one the other day and couldn't tell the difference apart from different fabric.
> A flat bottom steering wheel is nothing special, a vw up has one!
> Badge on front wing looks very cheap
> Seen the front end already, called a scirocco
> Wheels aren't the best.
> should be 250bhp at least.
> 
> just a note im a vag car owner, VW employee not a hater etc etc etc


I agree with this. Too little change from the mk6 and just looks like any other vw/Audi/skoda (seat do look different). Inside looks ok, certainly nothing that would make me want to buy it. It will be a very good car though.

As for the "gti" - are vw having a laugh! 217bhp by today's standards is total crap. A BMW 123d is just as fast! Then there's the price, start at 27k then you'll need to add a few extras as it will come with small wheels and cloths seats, no xenons etc. After you spec it up, probably over 30k which is BMW M135i territory. I just don't get it. Only die hard golf gti fans would be mad enough to buy it!

Btw I drive a golf gti edition 30 - so not a 'hater' lol


----------



## DW58

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I actually quite like the wheels, I think they're 'Monzas' carrying on from the MK6.


No Jim, I think it's a new design for the Mk.7 GTi.


----------



## PugIain

DW58 said:


> Touché.


£9.99 for a 407? Robbing *******s. I only paid 49p for mine. That was with a full tank of coal too!
( I have a sense of humour  )


----------



## possul

rf860 said:


> I agree with this. Too little change from the mk6 and just looks like any other vw/Audi/skoda (seat do look different). Inside looks ok, certainly nothing that would make me want to buy it. It will be a very good car though.
> 
> As for the "gti" - are vw having a laugh! 217bhp by today's standards is total crap. A BMW 123d is just as fast! Then there's the price, start at 27k then you'll need to add a few extras as it will come with small wheels and cloths seats, no xenons etc. After you spec it up, probably over 30k which is BMW M135i territory. I just don't get it. Only die hard golf gti fans would be mad enough to buy it!
> 
> Btw I drive a golf gti edition 30 - so not a 'hater' lol


I think by the time you have a half decent spec your looking 28k plus

id spend my money on a second hand BMW 335d and still have change for renal and dpf delete
I need a go on a m135!


----------



## DW58

PugIain said:


> £9.99 for a 407? Robbing *******s. I only paid 49p for mine. That was with a full tank of coal too!
> ( I have a sense of humour  )


Yeah, OK I'll give you that. Good job we all like different things.


----------



## rf860

possul said:


> I think by the time you have a half decent spec your looking 28k plus
> 
> id spend my money on a second hand BMW 335d and still have change for renal and dpf delete
> I need a go on a m135!


Easy 28k. There's a thread on mk5golfgti.co.uk where the mk7 gti was being discussed. Some of the guys on there had specced the car they'd want well over 30k. It's nuts.

I've owned both vw and BMW. I can safely say, I don't think I'll be buying another vw. BMWs are the best cars on the road IMO. The golfs a great car and does exactly what it says on the tin, but it's not very fun.


----------



## possul

BMW will be our next car I think.
New job soon so screw it why not.


----------



## Ross

The normal golf just looks so boring but the GTI looks better with its little details.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Ross said:


> The normal golf just looks so boring but the GTI looks better with its little details.


But the inside is another story. Even the base models in the new MK7 are pretty well equipped with bluetooth as standard.

Seems VW's upping their game.


----------



## andystevens

Looks a nice classic design but just a small Golf or should I say about the same size as a Golf was 10 years ago lol.
The German brands do seem to be a little lacking in an effort to differenciate between each model, shows a lack of interest imo.


----------



## Ross

They would need to,some VW's I've been have had less equipment in them than a Romania prison Haha


----------



## Kerr

andystevens said:


> Looks a nice classic design but just a small Golf or should I say about the same size as a Golf was 10 years ago lol.
> The German brands do seem to be a little lacking in an effort to differenciate between each model, shows a lack of interest imo.


I somewhat agree, but given that VW's reputation is soaring, surely that highlights that is what people want?

Who is making radically different cars these days?

Personally I think most manufacturers are all following their own formulae these days and spreading it across the range with a few distinctive features.


----------



## DW58

Volkswagen used to be notoriously low-specced, everything was an extra, but not any more. Unless you by the base model Golf you get a lot as standard now.

Even comparing my Mk.6 to the Mk.7 I have on order, they've upped their game again in terms of toys and general spec.

VWs aren't everyone's cup of tea, but neither are Nissan, Peugeot, Ford, BMW whatever - each to their own.


----------



## DW58

Kerr said:


> I somewhat agree, but given that VW's reputation is soaring, surely that highlights that is what people want?
> 
> Who is making radically different cars these days?
> 
> Personally I think most manufacturers are all following their own formulae these days and spreading it across the range with a few distinctive features.


IMO VAG got very complacent during the period from the early nineties to the early noughties (I hate that expression but what else to call it), and let standards slip. I had an Audi A6 Avant for a few years during the mid-late nineties and that heap of crap almost put me off of VAG cars for life. Although well built, there were so many design faults and down right bad components in it, they were just sitting back and watching the public buy without putting much thought/effort into design - thank goodness they've changed their policies now.


----------



## possul

I think Mercedes are making some very nice cars ATM.
It's nice to see something a bit different on the roads, they stand out as IMO they look good


----------



## SteveTDCi

28k on a Golf ...

my money would go here,

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif.../postcode/pe92wn/radius/1500/page/2?logcode=p

now before anybody shouts BMW and drivers car and the back is a bit odd .... They are such a nice car to be in, silent at 120 + just a great cruiser. I had a go in the S7 and i much preferred it to the R8.

The Mk7 GOlf actually looks ok in real life and is better in 3 door format, its just expensive, but then so are the Astras and Focus's. although at least you can get 5k off a Focus.


----------



## DW58

I had a Mercedes C200 (I think that was the model) on hire from Avis in Germany/Luxembourg last year, I liked it but there was something I didn't like - I can't put my finger on it, but it just didn't feel quite right. Very comfortable, well build, well appointed, but it just didn't handle as well as I'd have liked. It was also rather cramped for three of us plus luggage.


----------



## possul

Dare I say I prefer the focus looks and dash / instruments.


----------



## Kerr

possul said:


> I think Mercedes are making some very nice cars ATM.
> It's nice to see something a bit different on the roads, they stand out as IMO they look good


I like some of their cars.

The A45 AMG is really appealing, but it's not pretty. The B class and some of their other cars are positively ugly.

The C class and C class coupe are nice when they are nicely specced.

I would say Jaguar are one of the better manufacturers on the design front.


----------



## DW58

possul said:


> Dare I say I prefer the focus looks and dash / instruments.


I don't mind the Focus, the the latest Astra look terrible to me.


----------



## eddie bullit

All cars seem expensive to me..maybe I'm out of touch. I've got a Mk5 Golf GTI and it's a great car. I did want an R26 but reliability issues put me off. There maybe more exciting and better built but the Golfs good at most and very good in some areas. 
I also have a Mazda which is fantastic! reliable, great handling and fun (MX5). 
As for the likes of Peugeot I'm surprised there still in business. There last good cars were the 106&306 (GTI/Rallye),& 406 (diesel). 
Oh and I have a 205 GTI..now thats a proper GTI!


----------



## possul

I'm think new a class
http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/con...models/a-class/_w176/advice_sales/offers.html
A250 amg 27k


----------



## eddie bullit

DW58 said:


> I don't mind the Focus, the the latest Astra look terrible to me.


Standard Astra looks like its had one too many pies! VXR looks great though.


----------



## possul

eddie bullit said:


> All cars seem expensive to me..maybe I'm out of touch. I've got a Mk5 Golf GTI and it's a great car. I did want an R26 but reliability issues put me off. There maybe more exciting and better built but the Golfs good at most and very good in some areas.
> I also have a Mazda which is fantastic! reliable, great handling and fun (MX5).
> As for the likes of Peugeot I'm surprised there still in business. There last good cars were the 106&306 (GTI/Rallye),& 406 (diesel).
> Oh and I have a 205 GTI..now thats a proper GTI!


Meh, mk1 golf gti


----------



## DW58

possul said:


> Meh, mk1 golf gti


A helluva car in its day - and look what it started. Remember VW didn't want to build it.


----------



## possul

DW58 said:


> A helluva car in its day - and look what it started. Remember VW didn't want to build it.


Yeah and now look what we're stuck with :lol::lol:

Everyone was shocked with how well it did


----------



## andystevens

SteveTDCi said:


> 28k on a Golf ...
> 
> The Mk7 GOlf actually looks ok in real life and is better in 3 door format, its just expensive, but then so are the Astras and Focus's. although at least you can get 5k off a Focus.


The 28K is probably to pay for all the extra kit it is getting for standard........Allways remember nothing is free & it has to be paid for somehow where it be standard kit or optional. This obviously applies to everything.
£28K is far too much for any car of this size, almost as daft pricing as that Hideous Mini Countryman.


----------



## SteveTDCi

I like the Mini Countryman


----------



## DW58

SteveTDCi said:


> I like the Mini Countryman


Oh dear


----------



## SteveTDCi

DW58 said:


> Oh dear


I know, I have no idea why, there is a grey one near me and i just like the look of it. Really i think the wife needs to push me down the stairs :lol:


----------



## Ross

Better get your eyes seen to Steve


----------



## DW58

I honestly don't know what BMW/Mini are thinking of, but every new model is even uglier (in my opinion) than the last and the Countryman ... ... ... well, I don't even understand what it's supposed to be for. There seem to be more gather around shopping centre car-parks than anywhere.

It's a shopping trolley pure and simple.


----------



## Ross

Its horrific but sells somehow.


----------



## andystevens

DW58 said:


> I honestly don't know what BMW/Mini are thinking of, but every new model is even uglier (in my opinion) than the last and the Countryman ... ... ... well, I don't even understand what it's supposed to be for. There seem to be more gather around shopping centre car-parks than anywhere.
> 
> It's a shopping trolley pure and simple.


I tell you what it is...it is the fact that BMW own Mini & they have ployed their marketting skills to the Mini & as usual folk buy them because of what they persieve to be a great Marque behind the Mini brand & therefore release stupid looking designs. All they have done with that I believe is rework an X1 floorpan. They could put a Mini/BMW badge on a dried up turd & folk would buy one!


----------



## Kerr

andystevens said:


> I tell you what it is...it is the fact that BMW own Mini & they have ployed their marketting skills to the Mini & as usual folk buy them because of what they persieve to be a great Marque behind the Mini brand & therefore release stupid looking designs. All they have done with that I believe is rework an X1 floorpan. They could put a Mini/BMW badge on a dried up turd & folk would buy one!


You really don't like BMW, do you?

There is a distinction between BMW and Mini. Nowhere on the Mini does it say BMW.


----------



## DW58

The mad thing is that so many British Mini-drivers think it's a British car just because the factory is in Oxford.

Not my cup of tea I'm afraid.


----------



## MidlandsCarCare

We've had a few in and have been really impressed by the Interiors and design wise a few flaws with the Mk5 have been addressed. I'm a fan overall and love this colour:


DSC07953 by RussZS, on Flickr


----------



## Kerr

DW58 said:


> The mad thing is that so many British Mini-drivers think it's a British car just because the factory is in Oxford.
> 
> Not my cup of tea I'm afraid.


Hey, but most people think Andy Murray is British when he is winning, and then today Justin Rose is English when he really is South African.

We all kid ourselves on.

At least Mini employ quite a few British people to build the car and the true roots and spirit of the Mini lead back to Britain.


----------



## SteveTDCi

Ok, countryman, I like the looks for some strange reason, I like the mini branding (but not the prices) a standard mini is too small for me and I like the high up style of a 4x4. You cannot knock bmw for milking every single drop out of the mini brand, and at least it keeps the icon and interest in the uk going.

I am far from a BMW fan, I like there m cars and I would only ever consider something with 6 cylinders, however a few years ago, possibly 6 I had the misfortune to own a Audi a3 2.0sline dsg, it was a horrid car. BMW were trying to push there fleet on us and part of that they give you a demo, and it was at the time when we needed a hire car for a couple of trips, so this was cheaper. Anyway we got a 118d m sport, it was superior in everyday to the a3, better to drive, better engine, much better ergonomics, as much as I dislike them bmw have the driving position absolutely spot on, I can get my legs out and steering wheel close. Looks wise and space the 1 series wasn't good but in terms of comfort and position it was way better than the a3.


----------



## johanr77

DW58 said:


> Volkswagen used to be notoriously low-specced, everything was an extra, but not any more. Unless you by the base model Golf you get a lot as standard now.
> 
> Even comparing my Mk.6 to the Mk.7 I have on order, they've upped their game again in terms of toys and general spec.
> 
> VWs aren't everyone's cup of tea, but neither are Nissan, Peugeot, Ford, BMW whatever - each to their own.


This is very true I was pleasantly surprised when I ordered a mk7 to find the following were standard where they were extras on my mk6

xenons
bluetooth
parking sensors
cruise control
power mirrors
DAB radio


----------



## Kerr

johanr77 said:


> This is very true I was pleasantly surprised when I ordered a mk7 to find the following were standard where they were extras on my mk6
> 
> xenons
> bluetooth
> parking sensors
> cruise control
> power mirrors
> DAB radio


It happens with all cars through progression.

Many years ago you'd only see most of those options on executive cars.

Now most of them are found on small family hatchbacks.


----------



## johanr77

Think VW were responding to their rivals who were offering some if not most of that gear as standard fit. All that stuff on the mk6 would have set me back an extra £2k so to see it as standard now especially as the car hasn't shot up by £2k was a nice surprise.


----------



## 182_Blue

johanr77 said:


> This is very true I was pleasantly surprised oed when I ordered a mk7 to find the following were standard where they were extras on my mk6
> 
> xenons
> bluetooth
> parking sensors
> cruise control
> power mirrors
> DAB radio


I haven't looked into the MK7 but I can't see VW having the xenon as standard, i assume it's not a basic model you have?


----------



## johanr77

Aye sorry they're standard on the GTI and GTD


----------



## DW58

johanr77 said:


> Aye sorry they're standard on the GTI and GTD


All very well, but the GTi/GTD are well up the scale.

That aside, the standard features are pretty damned good on all but the base "S" spec model. A case in point being the adaptive cruise control which is standard on the "SE" and up - it's an expensive option on many cars if available at all.


----------



## johanr77

Whether those trims are up the scale or not doesn't really matter VW are giving you £2k of previously optional kit but only increasing list price by about £300. Only fly in the ointment is the Leon is quite a good car too and a hell of lot cheaper but having been in both the VW's interior is better by quite a bit.


----------



## DW58

Agreed - I popped in by the nearest SEAT dealership (unfortunately Arnold Clark which put me off PDQ) recently to have a look at the new Leon - I love the styling, but the overall build quality and the rather cheap interior put me off, and the "take it or leave it" attitude of the sales people put me right off.

I don't need convincing, I'm hooked on the Mk.7 Golf.


----------



## johanr77

Aye Arnold Clark is a punishment I wouldn't put an enemy through. Pack of clowns and that's being polite. In saying that the Aberdeen SEAT and VW dealers are barely any better which is why I went with Hawco in Elgin, most pleasant experience I've ever had getting a car.


----------



## DW58

Hawco Elgin are excellent - as a family we've been dealing with them since 1981. I've not had VAG cars all of that time but my parents have, around fifteen new VWs/Audis all in, no complaints, plus I bought 2 new Isuzus and a Subaru from them when they had their Japanese 4x4 dealership in Inverness so they've had a few bob off of us over the years.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

More pictures of the new GTI - 3dr & 5dr respectively:


----------



## DW58

Nice, but I don't like those wheels.


----------



## Kerr

The ride height is far too high, especially at the front. 

Not sure if it's those wheels, or the angle of your pictures, but the car looks to have too short a wheelbase in proportion to its height. 

Looks a bit squashed up. 

Like the seats though.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

*Sorry about the MASSIVE pictures everyone. Mods feel free to resize.*


----------



## RisingPower

If you want to be objective, the ride height is far too high, the wheels don't fill the arches as well as on the mk5 (look poorly spaced) and imho they've turned it into just yet another dreary car with the 5 doors.

It does make me wonder who buys a gti for 5 doors or paints standard single tiny piston brakes bright red to attract attention to how small they are.

Yes, I said the mk5 was better.


----------



## Patr1ck

I actually like it but just don't like the material design on the seats!


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

I have to admit for the first time that I do like the MK7 Golf......GTI only, all the other trims don't look right.

Just don't like the interiors on them yet - can't take to it at all. 

I love those alloys on the GTI, really stand out.

Carbon Grey looks good too, but I think the legendary Red should always be had on a GTI!  :thumb:


----------



## DW58

Those pix are a pain in the bum - I don't know why vBulletin isn't sizing them down automatically.

Can't agree with you on the wheels, I just don't like them - didn't like the Monzas much on the Mk.6 but IMO these are "chavvy" in the extreme, but again that's only my opinion.

I love the Mk.6 Golf R wheels, but much as I like the Mk.7 I'm struggling with most of the new wheel designs, I just don't like the current trend for multi-facetted multi-coloured alloys. Yes I'm conservative, but I know what I like.

Have to say I'm not a fan of the GTi upholstery, I know it's iconic GTi but not for me.


----------



## rf860

After seeing those pics, I don't like it at all. Just far too conservative.


----------



## RisingPower

rf860 said:


> After seeing those pics, I don't like it at all. Just far too conservative.


Which is why you're left asking, is this really a gti? What makes it a gti?


----------



## rf860

RisingPower said:


> Which is why you're left asking, is this really a gti? What makes it a gti?


Exactly. At least the mk5 edition 30 looks a bit different from the regular mk5s. Even still, it's quite toned down for a hot hatch. The regular mk5 gti was not good IMO - who wants a load of black plastic on the bumpers of a sporty model!?

I think vw/Audi/skoda all look the same these days with different twists on each model. Eg led strip drls on Audis. And they're overrated/over priced for what you get. They're good cars, but then, so are vauxhall but without the badge!


----------



## possul

RisingPower said:


> Which is why you're left asking, is this really a gti? What makes it a gti?


Some red stripes at the front and badge on the wing
All the other hot hatches stand out with how they look, which is why I prefer ford, vauxhall and renaults hot hatches


----------



## j3ggo

I like it, it's a Volkswagen, it's a golf and its a gti.


----------



## 182_Blue

VW Golf-Fan said:


> *Sorry about the MASSIVE pictures everyone. Mods feel free to resize.*


You need to resize them


----------



## johanr77

Think some of you people are kind of missing the point of the Golf GTI, it's never in any of it's guises been a loud lairy stand out bit of kit. The mk1 was a small fast car which was understated. They've never built a mental looking GTI because the customers clearly like what they are buying and when you **** about with a formula that is working you see your customer base wander off to other products. VAG aren't stupid they know what works and they know what their customers want. If I wanted a loud, brash hot hatch I'd go for a megane or vxr but to be honest they aren't what I want from a car, I like to be able to nip on when I feel like but not look like a young hooligan while I'm at it.

I've tended to find the people most critical of VW product are the kind of people who don't want to buy them in the first place.


----------



## RisingPower

johanr77 said:


> Think some of you people are kind of missing the point of the Golf GTI, it's never in any of it's guises been a loud lairy stand out bit of kit. The mk1 was a small fast car which was understated. They've never built a mental looking GTI because the customers clearly like what they are buying and when you **** about with a formula that is working you see your customer base wander off to other products. VAG aren't stupid they know what works and they know what their customers want. If I wanted a loud, brash hot hatch I'd go for a megane or vxr but to be honest they aren't what I want from a car, I like to be able to nip on when I feel like but not look like a young hooligan while I'm at it.
> 
> I've tended to find the people most critical of VW product are the kind of people who don't want to buy them in the first place.


There's a difference between being loud, lairy, stand out and the new golf 7.

This:










Or the mk5 gti:










Looks far more unusual than the golf mk7. The proportions are far better, the wheels fill the arches, there's no horrendously attention seeking tinyass brakes.

That and those that have less interest/brand loyalty as some vag owners do can presumably have a more objective stance.


----------



## johanr77

The top one is an R32 not a GTI.

I'm not disagreeing that there hasn't been better looking GTI models in the past just saying people expecting VW to go all Focus ST of VXR on a golf will be disappointed it's not what they do.


----------



## RisingPower

johanr77 said:


> The top one is an R32 not a GTI.
> 
> I'm not disagreeing that there hasn't been better looking GTI models in the past just saying people expecting VW to go all Focus ST of VXR on a golf will be disappointed it's not what they do.


That's why I said, or the gti, in the second picture.

I'm saying their special editions, really aren't *that* special these days.

I think you summed it up just fine in your original comment, "they know what *their* customers want", they're not looking to gain more market share with people who want unusual looking/different cars.


----------



## johanr77

Exactly they know what their target market are looking for, if they were getting feedback saying they wanted edge of the seat pant browning motors then they would build some.


----------



## DW58

RisingPower said:


> I think you summed it up just fine in your original comment, "they know what *their* customers want", they're not looking to gain more market share with people who want unusual looking/different cars.





johanr77 said:


> Exactly they know what their target market are looking for, if they were getting feedback saying they wanted edge of the seat pant browning motors then they would build some.


Spot on :thumb:


----------



## nichol4s

I ordered a mk7 3wks ago for the wife we went in with all intentions of having a GT TDI however we took the salesmans demo out which was a 1.6TDI SE to be fair I was very sceptical about it after spending an afternoon driving it I was very supprised this engine has replaced the 1.9TDI. 
Standard equipment is also very good compared to its rivals all in all a good car.


----------



## DW58

nichol4s said:


> I ordered a mk7 3wks ago for the wife we went in with all intentions of having a GT TDI however we took the salesmans demo out which was a 1.6TDI SE to be fair I was very sceptical about it after spending an afternoon driving it I was very supprised this engine has replaced the 1.9TDI.
> Standard equipment is also very good compared to its rivals all in all a good car.


So which did you order?

I test drove the GT TDi 2.0 a while back and was very impressed - I'm not usually a big fan of diesels, but this one handled very nicely (DSG with paddles), I have to say I was very tempted. In the end I opted for an SE 1.4TSi DSG as I don't do a lot of miles and couldn't really justify the extra cost.


----------



## Avanti

DW58 said:


> So which did you order?
> 
> I test drove the GT TDi 2.0 a while back and was very impressed - I'm not usually a big fan of diesels, but this one handled very nicely (DSG with paddles), I have to say I was very tempted. In the end I opted for an SE 1.4TSi DSG as I don't do a lot of miles and couldn't really justify the extra cost.


I'm about to press the button tomorrow
GTI
Oryx White
Performance Pack
DSG
Sunroof
Reverse Camera
Sat Nav
Soundpack
Heated Windscreen
Advanced Telephone Connection
Keyless Entry

Was tempted on the Limestone Grey or Carbon Grey


----------



## 182_Blue

Didnt know heated windscreen was now an option ?



Avanti said:


> I'm about to press the button tomorrow
> GTI
> Oryx White
> Performance Pack
> DSG
> Sunroof
> Reverse Camera
> Sat Nav
> Soundpack
> Heated Windscreen
> Advanced Telephone Connection
> 
> Was tempted on the Limestone Grey or Carbon Grey


----------



## Avanti

Shaun said:


> Didnt know heated windscreen was now an option ?


Yes, it's called climate windscreen, there is a thin conductive film in the glass, which can be heated and also due to the nature of it, keeps the interior cooler, but may affect the mobile phone performance and hence why it can only be specced with the advanced telephone connection, which present the signal within the centre console area (hopefully without requiring rsap profile on the phone )


----------



## DW58

Avanti said:


> I'm about to press the button tomorrow
> GTI
> Oryx White
> Performance Pack
> DSG
> Sunroof
> Reverse Camera
> Sat Nav
> Soundpack
> Heated Windscreen
> Advanced Telephone Connection
> Keyless Entry
> 
> Was tempted on the Limestone Grey or Carbon Grey


Hope you get a good deal - I suspect the GTi with that list of toys is well outwith my pocket


----------



## johanr77

Carbon grey is a nice colour, got it on my mk6 but it does show up every spec of dirt and dust. It's almost like having a black car. I decided to go for tornado red this time, not had a solid colour in ages.


----------



## Avanti

johanr77 said:


> Carbon grey is a nice colour, got it on my mk6 but it does show up every spec of dirt and dust. It's almost like having a black car. I decided to go for tornado red this time, not had a solid colour in ages.


I fancied a change from Red, blue cars give me bad luck  Black was out of the question, I do like the carbon grey on the MK6, the limestone grey seems interesting but I would need to see one in the flesh, keep seeing pearlescent white cars in various guises, which is what is winning me over to the oryx white (although I don't think it looks as good as other marques pearl whites).


----------



## DW58

johanr77 said:


> Carbon grey is a nice colour, got it on my mk6 but it does show up every spec of dirt and dust. It's almost like having a black car. I decided to go for tornado red this time, not had a solid colour in ages.





Avanti said:


> I fancied a change from Red, blue cars give me bad luck  Black was out of the question, I do like the carbon grey on the MK6, the limestone grey seems interesting but I would need to see one in the flesh, keep seeing pearlescent white cars in various guises, which is what is winning me over to the oryx white (although I don't think it looks as good as other marques pearl whites).


My current Candy White Mk.6 is lovely, but a total nightmare to keep looking respectable. I had it narrowed down to three colours this time - Deep Pearl Back (discounted because of difficulty in keeping clean); Tornado Red (had a Mars Red Polo years back) and Sunset Red - opted for Sunset Red which I absolutely love and I haven't had a red car since August 1986.


----------



## johanr77

I thought about limestone too as carbon grey wasn't an option to begin with but the wife made a good point do I want to have the same car time and again so instead of a metallic three door its a red 5 door :lol:


----------



## nichol4s

DW58 said:


> So which did you order?
> 
> I test drove the GT TDi 2.0 a while back and was very impressed - I'm not usually a big fan of diesels, but this one handled very nicely (DSG with paddles), I have to say I was very tempted. In the end I opted for an SE 1.4TSi DSG as I don't do a lot of miles and couldn't really justify the extra cost.


I ordered the 1.6TDI SE in white plus the mirror pack £16.995 +VAT it's for the wife for work IMO it's enough. We had a mk4 when they were new too come along way if you ask me.


----------



## DW58

The white is very nice - GTechniq's products work superbly on it - I just hope they're as good on Sunset Red ... ... ... well in reality I know they will be.


----------



## nichol4s

I saw a brown coloured one think I think it's called java looked lovely with the sun shining down on it.
And yes the white is nice :thumb: not sure about red though


----------



## DW58

Yes, _Java Metallic_ - a sh!tty brown colour - is available on Polos, but I'm not sure if it's available on the Golf, I certainly can't find it.

Good job we don't all like the same colours - I can't stand blue or green cars, plus there are too many variations on silver/metallic grey for my taste these days, but it's a very personal thing.

BTW despite what I've just said, I have owned blue (Isuzu), gold (Isuzu - truly yukky), silver (Subaru & Isuzu), metallic grey (Audi), green (Renault & Fiat) and even bright orange (Volkswagen) during my 36 years on the road.


----------



## nichol4s

DW58 said:


> Yes, _Java Metallic_ - a sh!tty brown colour - is available on Polos, but I'm not sure if it's available on the Golf, I certainly can't find it.
> 
> Good job we don't all like the same colours - I can't stand blue or green cars, plus there are too many variations on silver/metallic grey for my taste these days, but it's a very personal thing.
> 
> BTW despite what I've just said, I have owned blue (Isuzu), gold (Isuzu - truly yukky), silver (Subaru & Isuzu), metallic grey (Audi), green (Renault & Fiat) and even bright orange (Volkswagen) during my 36 years on the road.


****ty brown that's the one when the sun was on it it looked nice, it was a mk7 golf I saw it on! 
I usually go for silver last 5 cars have been anyway by September we'll have a white golf and a grey L200 Warrior oh and a vission blue transit connect :driver:


----------



## j3ggo

As much as I would like a mk 7 I can't justify the price especially when I see mk 6 with prices like this http://usedcars.volkswagen.co.uk/ve...-5-Dr/Grimsby/2285112&vhl=602969281&ctr=30014


----------



## rf860

j3ggo said:


> As much as I would like a mk 7 I can't justify the price especially when I see mk 6 with prices like this http://usedcars.volkswagen.co.uk/ve...-5-Dr/Grimsby/2285112&vhl=602969281&ctr=30014


High mileage, low spec, bolster looks far worse than my 49k mile golf 08 plate. Perhaps a reason why it's cheap.


----------



## GolfFanBoy




----------



## GolfFanBoy




----------



## Hardsworth

Think the mk7 is to overpriced it is to close to Audi territory, I think the new Leon is a better looking car and Seat n Skoda now have access to the latest VAG technology


----------



## possul

Hardsworth said:


> Think the mk7 is to overpriced it is to close to Audi territory, I think the new Leon is a better looking car and Seat n Skoda now have access to the latest VAG technology


I'd choose the Leon over the golf


----------



## Hardsworth

possul said:


> I'd choose the Leon over the golf


Same here, I think the Leon is a much smarter car with all the tech for less money


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

The Golf's always been pricey with the Audi A3 closely following suit.


----------



## rf860

VW Golf-Fan said:


> The Golf's always been pricey with the Audi A3 closely following suit.


Haven't u got this round the wrong way? Audi is premium, vw is not.

I'd consider vw to be equivalent to vauxhall, ford, Renault etc.


----------



## possul

rf860 said:


> Haven't u got this round the wrong way? Audi is premium, vw is not.
> 
> I'd consider vw to be equivalent to vauxhall, ford, Renault etc.


Agreed


----------



## Avanti

rf860 said:


> Haven't u got this round the wrong way? Audi is premium, vw is not.
> 
> *I'd consider vw to be equivalent to vauxhall, ford, Renault etc.*


You would until it comes to purchase time, remember Seat as part of the VW group, and is pitched nearer towards the Ford, Vauxhall clients, the other poster mentioned about price though, I 've just spec'd a Leon that has come to almost £26k, and you may find the Golf GT works out better VFM


----------



## rf860

Avanti said:


> You would until it comes to purchase time, remember Seat as part of the VW group, and is pitched nearer towards the Ford, Vauxhall clients, the other poster mentioned about price though, I 've just spec'd a Leon that has come to almost £26k, and you may find the Golf GT works out better VFM


Yes, cost to buy is more for vws (for some reason) but the quality of materials and build are on a par with vauxhall, ford, Renault etc. I've owned both vauxhall and vw (golf and Astra of same era) and the Astra was actually better built and better materials than my mk5 golf.

Far too many people these days buy into vw brand image of quality when in reality there just a run of the mill brand charging too much for regular family cars.

Ps. I do actually like my golf.


----------



## johanr77

I had a shot of the leon and while a lot has been said that they have access to the same parts bins and engines the truth is the interior isn't as nice as the golf but then the a3 is better than the golf. Of course its meant to be why would vw make the exactly the same car and charge 2-3k less for it thus drawing away customers to the cheaper car. They have to have some obvious differences to people sitting in them or they'll say screw the a3 I'm getting an octavia. Imagine if seat developed the exeo as an entirely new car and it was better than the a4 someone at seat would have been shot for drawing custom away from the more expensive brand.


----------



## nichol4s

johanr77 said:


> I had a shot of the leon and while a lot has been said that they have access to the same parts bins and engines the truth is the interior isn't as nice as the golf but then the a3 is better than the golf. Of course its meant to be why would vw make the exactly the same car and charge 2-3k less for it thus drawing away customers to the cheaper car. They have to have some obvious differences to people sitting in them or they'll say screw the a3 I'm getting an octavia. Imagine if seat developed the exeo as an entirely new car and it was better than the a4 someone at seat would have been shot for drawing custom away from the more expensive brand.


I used to repair the shutters at gilders vw, seat and audi and whilst I got talking to one of the techs and he said more or less what you have I.e seats interior is good but not as good as a vw and a vw is good but not as good as an Audi, however he did say most of the mechanical parts are the same across the range.


----------



## johanr77

Exactly the same engines are in the leon as the ones in the golf. Makes sense to utilise the engines across a wide a range of product as they can. 

VAG group have 5 manufacturers under their control and there is always going to be some crossover in models in terms of abilities and uses. This is why they've tried to make each brand distinct, unfortunately for VW itself it sits in a rather odd position because where you can say audi are a direct competitor to bmw and mercedes you can say skoda and seat are direct competitors to ford, vauxhall and the french. So where do VW sit then, well they are in direct competion to ford and vauxhall but if they pitch their cars at that price they don't need seat and skoda so they try to stick the car in that difficult spot as being better than their direct competitor but not as good as their premium brand. It's no coincidence that a hell of a lot of the motoring press compare whatever hatch is new on the market to the golf. I can hardly read an auto express or a top gear saying this car is good but it's not golf good so they must be doing something right. The complaints that they cost too much are wrong because if they did cost too much they wouldn't sell.


----------



## Monkeyboy

2013 Golf = dull/boring/sad


----------



## Avanti

Monkeyboy said:


> 2013 Golf = dull/boring/sad


Describes me to a T, must order one :thumb:


----------



## 182_Blue

Nothing wrong with it IMO, it's the usual VW stuff, in my experience the golf has always been better built than the focus or Astra of it era, in some case not by alot but VW still have the edge, Audi is another step up though.


----------



## Hardsworth

Shaun said:


> Nothing wrong with it IMO, it's the usual VW stuff, in my experience the golf has always been better built than the focus or Astra of it era, in some case not by alot but VW still have the edge, Audi is another step up though.


This is how VW plan, it all comes down to what a customer wants, they have most angles covered, if you want sporty buy a Seat, if you want practical then buy a Skoda, luxury = Audi etc :thumb:


----------



## Kerr

Hardsworth said:


> This is how VW plan, it all comes down to what a customer wants, they have most angles covered, if you want sporty buy a Seat, if you want practical then buy a Skoda, luxury = Audi etc :thumb:


I think too many people are looking for something that isn't there.

To me the biggest difference between any of the cars is simply the badge. That matters more to more people than any other of differences between them.

Not sure I'd consider Seat to be the sporty element of the VAG group either.

Skoda has the vRS models although they didn't have such a high powered petrol Octavia last time, but even ignoring some of the hot Audis, VW still has the Gti and the flagship R models.

I'd say Seat seem to have a far younger driver base than the other brands. They are a little more likely to make their cars more appealing to young ones with special edition tarted up models.

The Leon looks good in pictures. It looks a bit more grown up and to me, in direct competition to the Golf.


----------



## Avanti

Kerr said:


> I think too many people are looking for something that isn't there.
> 
> To me the biggest difference between any of the cars is simply the badge. That matters more to more people than any other of differences between them.
> 
> Not sure I'd consider Seat to be the sporty element of the VAG group either.
> 
> Skoda has the vRS models although they didn't have such a high powered petrol Octavia last time, but even ignoring some of the hot Audis, VW still has the Gti and the flagship R models.
> 
> I'd say Seat seem to have a far younger driver base than the other brands. They are a little more likely to make their cars more appealing to young ones with special edition tarted up models.
> 
> The Leon looks good in pictures.* It looks a bit more grown up and to me,* in direct competition to the Golf.


And I think this is where th crunch is for some, the Golf has sort of grown along with it's usual client, but some cars suit age ranges more so than others, a 50yr old in a VXR just doesn't seem right to me, likewise a 19 year old in a Phaeton doesn't seem right to me either.
However what I would like to know is what causes so much offence to the 'haters' ?


----------



## Kerr

Avanti said:


> And I think this is where th crunch is for some, the Golf has sort of grown along with it's usual client, but some cars suit age ranges more so than others, a 50yr old in a VXR just doesn't seem right to me, likewise a 19 year old in a Phaeton doesn't seem right to me either.
> However what I would like to know is what causes so much offence to the 'haters' ?


I think it's just the way Golf drivers go on about them to be honest.

This is one of the longer threads on DW and it's for a car that isn't a car of your dreams that stirs interest.

There just seems to be a higher level of smugness from Golf drivers in their belief they are buying something superior to others.

The condescending attitude is going to irritate people.

The Golf is a good car, nobody actual disputes that, but it's the ignorance and arrogance shown to cars that are actually very similar and inability to be open minded that there is cars other than a Golf.


----------



## RisingPower

Hardsworth said:


> This is how VW plan, it all comes down to what a customer wants, they have most angles covered, if you want sporty buy a Seat, if you want practical then buy a Skoda, luxury = Audi etc :thumb:


What do any of the afore mentioned badges have to do with any of that?

Do seat make anything like the r8? Do skoda make anything like the a8? Do you honestly believe all audis are luxurious inside?


----------



## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> I think it's just the way Golf drivers go on about them to be honest.
> 
> This is one of the longer threads on DW and it's for a car that isn't a car of your dreams that stirs interest.
> 
> There just seems to be a higher level of smugness from Golf drivers in their belief they are buying something superior to others.
> 
> The condescending attitude is going to irritate people.
> 
> The Golf is a good car, nobody actual disputes that, but it's the ignorance and arrogance shown to cars that are actually very similar and inability to be open minded that there is cars other than a Golf.


Quite. :thumb:


----------



## Avanti

Kerr said:


> I think it's just the way Golf drivers go on about them to be honest.
> 
> This is one of the longer threads on DW and it's for a car that isn't a car of your dreams that stirs interest.
> 
> There just seems to be a higher level of smugness from Golf drivers in their belief they are buying something superior to others.
> 
> The condescending attitude is going to irritate people.
> 
> The Golf is a good car, nobody actual disputes that, but it's the ignorance and arrogance shown to cars that are actually very similar and inability to be open minded that there is cars other than a Golf.


I'm not so sure if there is an arrogance about ownership, tbh I'm dissapointed with the recent GTI advert, as drivers don't really drive it like a bat out of hell.

I've been driving 30 yrs now and overall the Germans produce the more solid cars, thinking about it now, it's the cheapest german car I can buy, so perhaps I'm just looking at them from a different viewpoint.

PS I can't get the VXR configurator to work with firefox, but I know when I was getting my car, the VXR actually was more expensive for the same spec.


----------



## Kerr

Avanti said:


> I'm not so sure if there is an arrogance about ownership, tbh I'm dissapointed with the recent GTI advert, as drivers don't really drive it like a bat out of hell.
> 
> I've been driving 30 yrs now and overall the Germans produce the more solid cars, thinking about it now, it's the cheapest german car I can buy, so perhaps I'm just looking at them from a different viewpoint.
> 
> PS I can't get the VXR configurator to work with firefox, but I know when I was getting my car, the VXR actually was more expensive for the same spec.


I drive a German car and have always said people make huge assumptions about German quality.

There is a belief they are all better built and more reliable, it's often far from true.

All the German manufacturers have a few very fault prone engines in their line up, and many suffer with rattles and squeaks too.

The thing about Vauxhall is nobody expects to pay anywhere near list price. It is almost a marketing ploy to suggest a car is worth £25, 000 but you are getting a great deal with a 30% discount.

A bit like DFS sofas who have a never ending amazing sale.


----------



## rf860

Avanti said:


> I'm not so sure if there is an arrogance about ownership, tbh I'm dissapointed with the recent GTI advert, as drivers don't really drive it like a bat out of hell.


There's definitely an arrogance with golf gti drivers IMO. I'm on a golf gti forum and some of the folk on there are just plain deluded by the vw brand. Can't see the wood from the trees. But most of them have had nothing but vws since they started driving, so their opinion, is worthless.

For example, one guy posted up how his recent move from a BMW e90 to his golf was (which is worth less than the BMW) a great move, a better car, and was better built. This is just complete and utter crap! I'm quite cynical and how I see it was that he couldn't afford the BMW, so had to step down to the golf, and now he feels the need to justify the move to the cheaper car.

Another one was how a guy had bought a runabout e46 330ci until he can afford an ed30 and apparently the handling of the golf is streets ahead. Again, complete crap. The golf is a competent handling car, CAN be quite fun, but I would never describe it as a good handling car. I'd imagine most BMWs would out handle it because BMW take how their cars handle and feel very seriously.


----------



## 182_Blue

We are kind of going off topic now, so back to the 2013 golf please.


----------



## GolfFanBoy

Shaun said:


> We are kind of going off topic now, so back to the 2013 golf please.


Just been and bought one :thumb:


Golf GT 2.0TDi (150)
Deep Black Pearl Paint

I was going to go for this initially:-


Golf SE 2.0TDi (150)
Deep Black Pearl Paint
Front Fog Lights
F/R Parking Sensors
17" Madrid Alloy (or maybe standard 16"'s)

Totted up that lot and it made no sense as the GT carries so much of the kit as standard. In addition it also gives you the tinted rear windows, electric folding mirrors (with kerb view), firmer seats (but very comfy). I figured with the value of options being lost at the next trade-in it made sense to go with the GT too.

Only reason I initially ruled out the GT was the sport suspension but actually test driving one I was really impressed how much of the bumps in the road it absorbs. Could have dropped the engine size down but I've grown to love the current car too much that I'm sure I'd have regretted it.


----------



## Avanti

GolfFanBoy said:


> *Just been and bought one* :thumb:
> 
> 
> Golf GT 2.0TDi (150)
> Deep Black Pearl Paint
> 
> I was going to go for this initially:-
> 
> 
> Golf SE 2.0TDi (150)
> Deep Black Pearl Paint
> Front Fog Lights
> F/R Parking Sensors
> 17" Madrid Alloy (or maybe standard 16"'s)
> 
> Totted up that lot and it made no sense as the GT carries so much of the kit as standard. In addition it also gives you the tinted rear windows, electric folding mirrors (with kerb view), firmer seats (but very comfy). I figured with the value of options being lost at the next trade-in it made sense to go with the GT too.
> 
> Only reason I initially ruled out the GT was the sport suspension but actually test driving one I was really impressed how much of the bumps in the road it absorbs. Could have dropped the engine size down but I've grown to love the current car too much that I'm sure I'd have regretted it.


Ordered one yesterday but the GTI DSG Performance pack, Oryx White, sunroof, climate windscreen, advanced telephone connection, discover navigation, reverse camera and keyless start.
I couldn't see an alternative for the same £££s that I'd have been content with


----------



## DW58

GolfFanBoy said:


> Just been and bought one :thumb:
> 
> 
> Golf GT 2.0TDi (150)
> Deep Black Pearl Paint
> 
> I was going to go for this initially:-
> 
> 
> Golf SE 2.0TDi (150)
> Deep Black Pearl Paint
> Front Fog Lights
> F/R Parking Sensors
> 17" Madrid Alloy (or maybe standard 16"'s)
> 
> Totted up that lot and it made no sense as the GT carries so much of the kit as standard. In addition it also gives you the tinted rear windows, electric folding mirrors (with kerb view), firmer seats (but very comfy). I figured with the value of options being lost at the next trade-in it made sense to go with the GT too.
> 
> Only reason I initially ruled out the GT was the sport suspension but actually test driving one I was really impressed how much of the bumps in the road it absorbs. Could have dropped the engine size down but I've grown to love the current car too much that I'm sure I'd have regretted it.


I really liked the GT 2.0TDi when I drove it, and fancied it for the same reasons you have listed, it performs/handles beautifully but as I do a lot of short journeys, I opted for the 1.4TSi in the end and saved myself a few bob


----------



## Monkeyboy

DW58 said:


> I really liked the GT 2.0TDi when I drove it, and fancied it for the same reasons you have listed, it performs/handles beautifully but as I do a lot of short journeys, I opted for the 1.4TSi in the end and saved myself a few bob


Does the seat or the Skoda not come in a better spec than the golf for the same money and be just as good a handling car ??


----------



## Avanti

Monkeyboy said:


> Does the seat or the Skoda not come in a better spec than the golf for the same money and be just as good a handling car ??


Instead of asking the question. Why not tell us the answer? Just saying seat or skoda doesn't really mean much.


----------



## GolfFanBoy

Avanti said:


> Ordered one yesterday but the GTI DSG Performance pack, Oryx White, sunroof, climate windscreen, advanced telephone connection, discover navigation, reverse camera and keyless start.
> I couldn't see an alternative for the same £££s that I'd have been content with


That's going to be some Golf :thumb: Sounds like you've not scrimped with the extras but that's a car you'll want to hang on to so enjoy. The Oryx white should make it that bit rarer as well.



DW58 said:


> I really liked the GT 2.0TDi when I drove it, and fancied it for the same reasons you have listed, it performs/handles beautifully but as I do a lot of short journeys, I opted for the 1.4TSi in the end and saved myself a few bob


I considered the 1.4TSi as well because I'm planning to buy a house nearer to work and my mileage will probably drop. If you read any of the car reviews (which, whatcar, etc) they all say that the best all round engine is the 1.4 122 on a performance for pound basis. The problem for me is that I set the benchmark high when I got the mk 6 and didn't want to risk changing engines. I even debated about whether or not to keep the mk6 but with an expensive 40k service approaching it made sense to.


----------



## Monkeyboy

Avanti said:


> Instead of asking the question. Why not tell us the answer? Just saying seat or skoda doesn't really mean much.


Wooops bit touchy raw nerve there I think ...... I only asked a question there chief, no need to get all arsey .... I merely asked DW58 a question about what the options were with Skoda or a Seat as they are one and the same equipment but more bang for your buck so to speak.

Its your money and you can choose to spend it in as boring a manner as suits !


----------



## Kerr

GolfFanBoy said:


> That's going to be some Golf :thumb: Sounds like you've not scrimped with the extras but that's a car you'll want to hang on to so enjoy. The Oryx white should make it that bit rarer as well.
> 
> I considered the 1.4TSi as well because I'm planning to buy a house nearer to work and my mileage will probably drop. If you read any of the car reviews (which, whatcar, etc) they all say that the best all round engine is the 1.4 122 on a performance for pound basis. The problem for me is that I set the benchmark high when I got the mk 6 and didn't want to risk changing engines. I even debated about whether or not to keep the mk6 but with an expensive 40k service approaching it made sense to.


What would a 40k service cost?

Surely can't need much at 40k?


----------



## DW58

I can see your point, but my mileage is only about 5-6k/year at present so the TDi just doesn't make either financial or practical sense, especially with the DPF Regen issues which are being talked about at present - no problems if you do average miles, but it would probably cause me problems.

Never mind, we're happy and the usual candidates have got something to whinge about. Maybe we should post on the BMW/Vauxhall/Ford/Peugeot and other threads as they seem so keen to disrupt ours with the same old same old.


----------



## GolfFanBoy

Kerr said:


> What would a 40k service cost?
> 
> Surely can't need much at 40k?


The timing belt is due at 40,000 or 4 year which is in addition to the normal service. I was quoted just over £600 for the service but would get a little discount had it been done at the dealership I bought it from. I'm told with the mk7 and later mk6 diesels that they have an extended life on the belt. Taking this into account, and the residual value of the car I thought now was the best time to switch. I certainly wasn't going to spend hundreds putting a new belt on and then trading next year for it to benefit someone else.


----------



## Avanti

Monkeyboy said:


> Wooops bit touchy raw nerve there I think ...... I only asked a question there chief, no need to get all arsey .... I merely asked DW58 a question about what the options were with Skoda or a Seat as they are one and the same equipment but more bang for your buck so to speak.
> 
> Its your money and you can choose to spend it in as boring a manner as suits !


I know you only asked the question. But it is the 'haters' that should be answering. I'm not touchy it seems you are, debate is debate. No right or wrong. Just interested in your proper viewpoint ;-)


----------



## possul

40k miles for a cambet chance in today's modern vehicles, not a chance. Petrols are chain for starters unless counting the non turbo
40k service for petrol or diesel?


----------



## Kerr

GolfFanBoy said:


> The timing belt is due at 40,000 or 4 year which is in addition to the normal service. I was quoted just over £600 for the service but would get a little discount had it been done at the dealership I bought it from. I'm told with the mk7 and later mk6 diesels that they have an extended life on the belt. Taking this into account, and the residual value of the car I thought now was the best time to switch. I certainly wasn't going to spend hundreds putting a new belt on and then trading next year for it to benefit someone else.


Ouch. That is a very costly service at 40k.

My biggest service at 45k on my 335i was £430.


----------



## GolfFanBoy

possul said:


> 40k miles for a cambet chance in today's modern vehicles, not a chance. Petrols are chain for starters unless counting the non turbo
> 40k service for petrol or diesel?


Diesel and I can assure you my facts are correct.

I've bought a Golf, I'd never claim it to be the best car on the road and I certainly wouldn't tell someone else they had to buy it if they preferred Skoda, Seat, etc. This idea that Golf buyer's can't see past the badge is a bit silly, I've bought what I wanted not what someone else thinks I should buy.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Although I absolutely love the Golfs & drive a MK6, I wouldn't go out in a rush to buy a MK7. I just can't take to them at all (except GTI/D).

I just don't like the interior of them with that cheap plasticy look on the black dash etc, the MK6 interior is far classy IMO. 

It's a bit like Bovril, you either love it or hate it!


----------



## possul

GolfFanBoy said:


> Diesel and I can assure you my facts are correct.
> 
> I've bought a Golf, I'd never claim it to be the best car on the road and I certainly wouldn't tell someone else they had to buy it if they preferred Skoda, Seat, etc. This idea that Golf buyer's can't see past the badge is a bit silly, I've bought what I wanted not what someone else thinks I should buy.


So we're do you get the information?


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

possul said:


> So we're do you get the information?


Whatcar or Autoexpress? :lol:


----------



## GolfFanBoy

possul said:


> So we're do you get the information?


The service manual and the dealer service department. Had I bought a petrol then no I wouldn't have had to change the belt but this is a diesel.


----------



## possul

Oh and time and distance service or longlife?


----------



## GolfFanBoy

possul said:


> Oh and time and distance service or longlife?


I guess my word is not good enough?

Time and distance.

£320 for the cambelt is part of the £600 cost I gave, the rest is for the normal 4 year 40k service.


----------



## possul

So when I print the service sheets off at work (VW as technician) and they say cambelt at 120k miles would they be wrong? Must be Volkswagen elsa which is wrong then, we're probably servicing them all wrong
They say 4 years for the simple fact of making money. And it works obviously!
I find it strange how VW say that belts have to be changed at 40k miles yet others are well over 100k.


----------



## Monkeyboy

Jeez that's a bit on the steep side for a 40k service.

Is it still a water pump and belt service at 70 or 75k with the diesel ??


----------



## GolfFanBoy

I don't really care to be honest, I'm not an expert on the mechanical workings of a car so if VW say that I take them at their word. If you expect your average VW owner to take a chance on their belt failing against the advice of the manufacturer then that's just silly. You have your opinion and I have mine.


----------



## possul

GolfFanBoy said:


> I don't really care to be honest, I'm not an expert on the mechanical workings of a car so if VW say that I take them at their word. If you expect your average VW owner to take a chance on their belt failing against the advice of the manufacturer then that's just silly. You have your opinion and I have mine.


It's not an opinion it's fact, in black and white, on paper and all other specs I have access to at work.
Its not just something I have made up, I asked this question suggesting that 40k for a cambelt was stupid, they don't need doing it just turns in more money.


----------



## possul

But anyway off topics

Enjoy your new cars everyone who has purchased/purchasing one, may they brings years of joyful motoring


----------



## DW58

VW Golf-Fan said:


> Although I absolutely love the Golfs & drive a MK6, I wouldn't go out in a rush to buy a MK7. I just can't take to them at all (except GTI/D).
> 
> I just don't like the interior of them with that cheap plasticy look on the black dash etc, the MK6 interior is far classy IMO.
> 
> It's a bit like Bovril, you either love it or hate it!


I actually prefer the Mk.7 interior, plus it's more roomy than the Mk.6 - in fact I was amazed when I test drove the Mk.7 1.4TSi SE 122PS Manual and 2.0TDi GT 150PS DSG with three people (self, wife, 20yo prop-forward son) on board at how much more room there was that in the Mk.6. I can't agree with you on your comment about the "cheap plasticy look" as you put it, IMO the interior is at least as good if not better than the Mk.6

BTW shouldn't it be Marmite rather than Bovril?


----------



## SteveTDCi

The new golf is very nice inside (plastic wise) I don't like the seats, they lack shape and support in the se. The touch screen is rubbish, well I say rubbish, it works well but I find its too much of a distraction when driving, it's not a simple thing to adjust. I much prefer the rcd/rns510.


----------



## DW58

I didn't go for the Satnav option this time around - the RNS510 is pretty poor at Satnavs go, I don't really think much of my RNS510 as a Satnav much preferring to use my stand-alone Garmin nüvi 3790LMT which I can transfer to hire-cars etc., and pre-program via my Mac, plus POIs etc. are so much easier to load.

Volkswagen are taking the p!ss with what they're asking for the new Discover Satnav head units, and especially for the Discover Pro which is £1725 extra on the SE and £1135 on the GT (GT already has the standard Discover Satnav). Yes the stand-alone GPS units have to be mounted externally - I have mine on a non-slip dashboard mount where it is in a perfect position, but they are easily upgraded or replaced with more up-to-date technology, and IMO don't offer any disadvantages, especially if you eradicate loose cables by using retractable USB->Micro USB cables as I do.


----------



## SteveTDCi

I think all manufactures take the wee wee with sat navs


----------



## DW58

Yup - I love my Garmin nüvi 3790LMT which I use in conjunction with a dash-top friction mount and leads as described above, gives a very convenient and useful "heads up" display - I don't like the built-in "heads down" view.



























Dash-top "heads-up" mount"









Belkin USB->Car socket adapter









Belkin retractable USB->Micro USB cable


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Something I noticed today after seeing a new shape Audi A3, the rears of the MK7 Golf & the A3 are very similar with the new Leon following closely.

I think it's the lights that make them look similar.

I really like the new A3 which I prefer over the previous shape & IMO it is better than the MK7 Golf (except GTI/D) in terms of looks only.


----------



## DW58

Reminds me of my Mum's A1 Sportback in the same colour - I love that little car.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

DW58 said:


> Reminds me of my Mum's A1 Sportback in the same colour - I love that little car.


Heard good things about the A1, especially the 1.4 TFSI.


----------



## DW58

I like it - Mum has a 1.4TFSi Sportback _Sport_ with S-Tronic (same as DSG with the type of selector in Mk.5/6 Golfs with "S" on the stick).

It's a lovely little car to drive, with great _oomph_ and handling. The only negative from my POV is a tiny boot.


----------



## xJay1337

The interior of the new A3 is horrible.
It's the same platform though but the A3 feels miles smaller. I would be interested to see if you could buy an A3 and put the Mk7 dash in it.
Something I would perhaps try but doubt the posting majority on here would be interested in that.

On the subject of the interior; I've owned two Mk5s now for 3 years, my housemate had a Mk6, and within a few days of the new A3 and Mk7 being released into dealers, me and a mate went up to have a look and poke our noses.

The Mk7 interior is by _far_ and _away_ the nicest Golf interior ever. Nothing you touch at all feels cheap. Everything is where you would _expect_ it to be - everything is clear and easy to work out. The only minor dissapointment for me was the drop of the doors in the front was nice and leathery, felt good, and in the rear it just felt the soft plastic again - Would have been nice to carry that along, but hey.

Of course personal judgement aside, if you are just looking at a picture it's not really fair to state?


----------



## DW58

xJay1337 said:


> The Mk7 interior is by _far_ and _away_ the nicest Golf interior ever. Nothing you touch at all feels cheap. Everything is where you would _expect_ it to be - everything is clear and easy to work out. The only minor dissapointment for me was the drop of the doors in the front was nice and leathery, felt good, and in the rear it just felt the soft plastic again - Would have been nice to carry that along, but hey.


Totally agree - I love the Mk.7 interior, but I haven't had a chance to view the new A3 as yet, need to do so on my next visit to either Aberdeen or Inverness as we no longer have an Audi dealer locally thanks to the stupid EU law which has split Volkswagen and Audi dealerships here in the UK, but everyone elsewhere in Europe seems to ignore - isn't it ridiculous.

My son and I went into a combined Volkswagen/Audi dealership in Luxembourg this time last year to have a look at an R8 they had in the showroom. Half of the building was Volkswagen, the other half Audi - I discussed the EU mandated split of dealerships with the manager, his response was "we don't take any notice of such rubbish here - that's for the British and Irish, no-one else in Western Europe bothers".


----------



## SteveTDCi

The new a3 is way better than the golf dash, the attention to detail and simplicity is so much better.


----------



## nichol4s

DW58 said:


> Totally agree - I love the Mk.7 interior, but I haven't had a chance to view the new A3 as yet, need to do so on my next visit to either Aberdeen or Inverness as we no longer have an Audi dealer locally thanks to the stupid EU law which has split Volkswagen and Audi dealerships here in the UK, but everyone elsewhere in Europe seems to ignore - isn't it ridiculous.
> 
> My son and I went into a combined Volkswagen/Audi dealership in Luxembourg this time last year to have a look at an R8 they had in the showroom. Half of the building was Volkswagen, the other half Audi - I discussed the EU mandated split of dealerships with the manager, his response was "we don't take any notice of such rubbish here - that's for the British and Irish, no-one else in Western Europe bothers".


We have vw and Audi under one roof in Sheffield S8 8LH big place too even has a coffee shop. This is we're I ordered the mk7 from.


----------



## DW58

Really - my local had to give up their Audi dealership and now they only have one in Inverness in separate premises to their Volkswagen garage. They have four Volkswagen dealerships, but only one Audi.


----------



## rf860

Anybody see this?

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/video-group-test-audi-v-merc-v-vw/266102

The new golf done pretty well. Although, I don't think the golf should've been in the "premium" car test, should've been the BMW one series - a massive oversight by what car.


----------



## Kerr

rf860 said:


> Anybody see this?
> 
> http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/video-group-test-audi-v-merc-v-vw/266102
> 
> The new golf done pretty well. Although, I don't think the golf should've been in the "premium" car test, should've been the BMW one series - a massive oversight by what car.


Surprised the 1 series isn't in there. It is an obvious alternative.

The Merc has been getting poor reviews everywhere. Merc always seem to struggle with small cars.

I don't understand why the Golf and A3 are so close in price. It devalues the Audi brand.

Two cars from the same group competing for the same custom.

It's hard to justify a Golf on the basis of that review. The A3 looks better, drives better, nicer quality, will retain more value and still has the big brother status.

Red isn't the best colour for the VW or Audi. One of the deep greys looked good.


----------



## DW58

No real surprises there, but also bear in mind how the BMW 1-Series usually fairs in group tests - I seem to remember it coming last a couple of years back.

Whilst I can't argue with anything said in the video review, some things are very personal - for example I don't like dial/joystick control such as on the A3, but I'm sure plenty do.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

I've just watched the video review.

I really don't like the Audi's interior (especially that Sat-Nav looking thing) which would seriously compromise your attention to the road IMO - such a distraction.

Not surprised that the Merc came last, it's a lot of money for a not very well equipped car that doesn't have alloys..........seriously, for a Merc?! :doublesho 

Seems the Golf came out in a 'neutral' response as usual.


----------



## rf860

Kerr said:


> Surprised the 1 series isn't in there. It is an obvious alternative.
> 
> The Merc has been getting poor reviews everywhere. Merc always seem to struggle with small cars.
> 
> I don't understand why the Golf and A3 are so close in price. It devalues the Audi brand.
> 
> Two cars from the same group competing for the same custom.
> 
> It's hard to justify a Golf on the basis of that review. The A3 looks better, drives better, nicer quality, will retain more value and still has the big brother status.
> 
> Red isn't the best colour for the VW or Audi. One of the deep greys looked good.


It's a shame the merc has been getting a bad name. Road and wind noise coupled with poor interior quality really is unacceptable in a premium badge car. Even an Astra gets a good reputation for being quiet and well built. The best thing going for the merc is the badge.

I also fail to understand the pricing of the golf and a3. I was looking at the leasing rates and there was nothing between the two.

I'm not convinced the a3 has the nicest interior. Granted, I'm not really keen on any of those reviewed, it still looks a bit too bland for me.



DW58 said:


> No real surprises there, but also bear in mind how the BMW 1-Series usually fairs in group tests - I seem to remember it coming last a couple of years back.
> 
> Whilst I can't argue with anything said in the video review, some things are very personal - for example I don't like dial/joystick control such as on the A3, but I'm sure plenty do.


If you mean the previous shape 1 series, actually most of the reviews for it were positive. I recall there being criticism for lack of rear legroom and the looks (which is subjective anyhow). I owned a 1 series coupe prior to my golf and whilst the interior and general quality was better than the golf, it's still not what I'd class as a "proper" BMW and that's pretty much why I got rid.

From what I've read, the current one fares well too - apparently the rear leg room is vastly improved.


----------



## Kerr

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I've just watched the video review.
> 
> I really don't like the Audi's interior (especially that Sat-Nav looking thing) which would seriously compromise your attention to the road IMO - such a distraction.
> 
> Not surprised that the Merc came last, it's a lot of money for a not very well equipped car that doesn't have alloys..........seriously, for a Merc?! :doublesho
> 
> Seems the Golf came out in a 'neutral' response as usual.


Many of the new sat navs look like that. I think it looks good.

Surely any sat nav is a distraction?

At least that one, although well out your normal field of vision, you can have a glance/ look without your eyes being totally off the road.


----------



## DW58

Besides the dial/joy-stick controller, there's only one other major negative for me in the A3 interior - and it's the same on the A1 - I just don't like the bulging bug-eyed round air/heating vents, but again it's a personal thing.

I find the positioning of the interior controller to be uncomfortable to use, and very distracting, I've used them in other cars and find them difficult to use especially on the move.

I'm in no doubt the A3 is a great car, but I don't like these two specific features.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

Kerr said:


> Surely any sat nav is a distraction?
> 
> At least that one, although well out your normal field of vision, you can have a glance/ look without your eyes being totally off the road.


Yes, most Sat-Navs are a distraction, but this set-up looks to be permanent whereas with a typical Sat-Nav you can remove it when not using it.

It's a bit 'in your face' for my liking.

I do love the look of it exterior wise, big improvement over it's predecessor.

VW got it right with their Nav units that were built into the RCD510 unit (like DW58 has.)


----------



## SteveTDCi

VW Golf-Fan said:


> I've just watched the video review.
> 
> I really don't like the Audi's interior (especially that Sat-Nav looking thing) which would seriously compromise your attention to the road IMO - such a distraction.


For me thats a plus, you only need to glance left to see it, with the golf you have to look down, I found the touch screen in the Mk7 dangerous to use on the move. AS for the Golf being close to the A3 in price, does that make the A3 cheap or the Golf expensive ?


----------



## DW58

I actually much prefer the position of Audi Satnavs over Volkswagen, although as stated above I don't like Audi's method of selection/control. I haven't used the navigation features of the RNS510 in my Mk.6 in around 2 years because it's so poor in comparison to my Garmin nüvi 3790LMT (in my opinion), plus using the dash-top friction mount and retractable cable, the display is exactly where I want it to be and there are no long cables.

This combined with cost is why I won't be having built-in Satnav in my Mk.7.

I don't have any personal experience of either the Discover/Discover Pro Satnavs on the Mk.7, so I can't really comment other than on position, but the prices are outrageous.


----------



## Kerr

SteveTDCi said:


> For me thats a plus, you only need to glance left to see it, with the golf you have to look down, I found the touch screen in the Mk7 dangerous to use on the move. AS for the Golf being close to the A3 in price, does that make the A3 cheap or the Golf expensive ?


They are both too expensive with the Golf the most guilty.

I shudder at the thought of £20k for a small family hatchback.

Only a couple of years ago £20k would see you in a hot hatch, not a family hatch.

The price of cars is spiraling out of control.

As I said in my car search, used cars I've had shortlisted for 8 months have gained upto £5-6k yet, aren't selling at all.

It's like the housing market a few years back. Too many people paying more than something is actually worth.

The prices have to come down and I think I'm going to wait for it.


----------



## SteveTDCi

20k for a Golf ... i've been and had a look at the new Clio RS200, £20650 for the lux model with cup pack and police car white


----------



## xJay1337

Kerr said:


> Surprised the 1 series isn't in there. It is an obvious alternative.
> 
> The Merc has been getting poor reviews everywhere. Merc always seem to struggle with small cars.
> 
> I don't understand why the Golf and A3 are so close in price. It devalues the Audi brand.
> 
> Two cars from the same group competing for the same custom.
> 
> It's hard to justify a Golf on the basis of that review. The A3 looks better, drives better, nicer quality, will retain more value and still has the big brother status.
> 
> Red isn't the best colour for the VW or Audi. One of the deep greys looked good.


The A-Class is actually a really nice car. A work colleague has one, the A200 AMG edition thingy. It's comfortable, not that thirsty, rides well with good body control, the gearbox is silky and it actually looks pretty good.

The new A-Class has been getting blinding reviews from where I've been looking, especially the hot ones, with the A45 being a bit of a giant killer.

That said Autocar did a video where they compared the Golf Mk7 GTI with the Performance pack, m135i and the A45.
Apparently the BMW was the worst of the bunch, the A45 was the best car but was not worth the money over the GTI, which is what would have gotten Steven's money. Infact the BMW's steering was appalling and the body control was all over the shop.

Not my words, Kerr, but the words of Autocar Magazine.


----------



## Kerr

xJay1337 said:


> The A-Class is actually a really nice car. A work colleague has one, the A200 AMG edition thingy. It's comfortable, not that thirsty, rides well with good body control, the gearbox is silky and it actually looks pretty good.
> 
> The new A-Class has been getting blinding reviews from where I've been looking, especially the hot ones, with the A45 being a bit of a giant killer.
> 
> That said Autocar did a video where they compared the Golf Mk7 GTI with the Performance pack, m135i and the A45.
> Apparently the BMW was the worst of the bunch, the A45 was the best car but was not worth the money over the GTI, which is what would have gotten Steven's money. Infact the BMW's steering was appalling and the body control was all over the shop.
> 
> Not my words, Kerr, but the words of Autocar Magazine.


I seen a video of the A45 out dragging a C63. It is fast without any doubt.

It's also has 40bhp more and quite a bit more expensive than the M135i.

AMG cars are usually directed at M cars, and the M135i isn't an M car.

So the flagship performance 1 series is still to come.

I've not seen the video yet but see it's out there.

Also bear in mind that the handling of the AMG model is likely to be nothing like the normal versions.


----------



## SteveTDCi

The merc looks the best and from the video it rides the best, the sumary i got id that he would pick the AMG however at the price he would pick the Golf over the BMW if it was his money. The BMW sounds the best though, and really its a bit of an unfair test. The GTi and M135i are not really rivals, the AMG is a different class and should really be compared with an M car, a genuine one that is.


----------



## Kerr

SteveTDCi said:


> The merc looks the best and from the video it rides the best, the sumary i got id that he would pick the AMG however at the price he would pick the Golf over the BMW if it was his money. The BMW sounds the best though, and really its a bit of an unfair test. The GTi and M135i are not really rivals, the AMG is a different class and should really be compared with an M car, a genuine one that is.


Seen it now.

Since the Golf with the performance pack costs the same as the M135i, it is direct competition.

Bearing in mind you are paying for extra power and a LSD, which is something a M135i doesn't have and would vastly improve it if it did.

The Golf gives up 90bhp and in 1.8secs slower to 60mph. That's miles at this kind of performance.

I do agree with the steering a bit though. Too much assistance through it.


----------



## DW58

What was this thread about again ... ... ... Mercedes A-Class? ... ... ... BMW 1-Series? ... ... ... Audi A3? ... ... ... nope 

:speechles Got it ... ... ... it was the Volkswagen Golf Mk.7!


----------



## Kerr

DW58 said:


> What was this thread about again ... ... ... Mercedes A-Class? ... ... ... BMW 1-Series? ... ... ... Audi A3? ... ... ... nope
> 
> :speechles Got it ... ... ... it was the Volkswagen Golf Mk.7!


All conversion is related to the Golf and its competition. Hardly off topic.


----------



## Monkeyboy

Kerr said:


> All conversion is related to the Golf and its competition. Hardly off topic.


Like Victor Meldrew !

Unbelievable .......


----------



## DW58

Kerr said:


> All conversion is related to the Golf and its competition. Hardly off topic.





Monkeyboy said:


> Like Victor Meldrew !
> 
> Unbelievable .......


----------



## johanr77

I think you'd be mad to buy a gti not when the ferrari 458 is on the market it also has 4 wheels, seats, doors, windows, stereo. It has hundreds of horsepower more and handles way better.


----------



## johanr77

Kerr said:


> Since the Golf with the performance pack costs the same as the M135i, it is direct competition.


On the BMW site a M135i with metallic paint costs £31,070
On the VW site a GTI with the performance pack and metallic costs £27,350

Thats basic spec only things added were the metallic paint.

Ok I'll concede that £27k plus change is a lot of money for a hatch but it's still almost £4k less than the beemer.


----------



## DW58

But as the usual characters will confirm, it's just not a BMW (or for that matter Astra/Focus/Octavia/Leon etc.) which is all that seems to matter to the handful who constantly derail this and every Volkswagen Golf-related thread.

No matter what Volkswagen do, the Golf just has to be criticised or that's the impression they continually push forward, sad but true. Are they simply jealous of Volkswagen's obvious success and the excellent cars they build or perhaps Volkswagen just don't cater to the tiny-dick brigade quite like the Bavarians clearly do. 

Funny how the Volkswagen fans don't immediately jump on the BMW fan-threads isn't it? 

Come on guys, change the record its getting really boring


----------



## 182_Blue

Anyhow, back on the topic of '2013 Golf' please.


----------



## Monkeyboy

DW58 said:


> Funny how the Volkswagen fans don't immediately jump on the BMW fan-threads isn't it?
> 
> Come on guys, change the record its getting really boring


DW, I get it, you have a passion for VW's and you choose to spend your hard earned on one. But if you don't like the fact that people come on the 'LIKEY - NO LIKEY' thread and voice there NO LIKEY opinion which stirs you up into a frenzy before bedtime making you post a lot of ... ... ... ... ... then don't read it, have another Horlicks and go to bed. Its an open forum and the thread was about opinions ... ... ... ... ... God knows you've told us your opinion 50 times about the Mk7 golf and even your opinion of how much you detest the round air vents on the A3 dash board and how much you like your mums A1 even how much you like your garmin nuvi 3795lmt more than VW's which was as much off topic as any other post ... ... ... ... But because it didn't mention BMW ... ... ...

I also have a Volkswagen in my collection of vehicles ... ... ... ... ... Just saying !



Edit : I forgot to mention your retractable USB - mini USB belkin thingy !


----------



## DW58

Monkeyboy said:


> DW, I get it, you have a passion for VW's and you choose to spend your hard earned on one. But if you don't like the fact that people come on the 'LIKEY - NO LIKEY' thread and voice there NO LIKEY opinion which stirs you up into a frenzy before bedtime making you post a lot of ... ... ... ... ... then don't read it, have another Horlicks and go to bed. Its an open forum and the thread was about opinions ... ... ... ... ... God knows you've told us your opinion 50 times about the Mk7 golf and even your opinion of how much you detest the round air vents on the A3 dash board and how much you like your mums A1 which was as much off topic as any other post ... ... ... ... But because it didn't mention BMW ... ... ...
> 
> I also have a Volkswagen in my collection of vehicles ... ... ... ... ... Just saying !



I'm not in a frenzy
All I have done is complain at how every Golf-related thread is derailed by the same people spouting the same old same old.
I don't like Horlicks and it's not bedtime.
Yes I'm a VW-enthusiast, so it's hardly surprising I should defend their products, but unlike so many I'm not blind to the products of others.


----------



## robsri

Monkeyboy said:


> DW, I get it, you have a passion for VW's and you choose to spend your hard earned on one. But if you don't like the fact that people come on the 'LIKEY - NO LIKEY' thread and voice there NO LIKEY opinion which stirs you up into a frenzy before bedtime making you post a lot of ... ... ... ... ... then don't read it, have another Horlicks and go to bed. Its an open forum and the thread was about opinions ... ... ... ... ... God knows you've told us your opinion 50 times about the Mk7 golf and even your opinion of how much you detest the round air vents on the A3 dash board and how much you like your mums A1 which was as much off topic as any other post ... ... ... ... But because it didn't mention BMW ... ... ...
> 
> I also have a Volkswagen in my collection of vehicles ... ... ... ... ... Just saying !


Nail and head springs to mind here :thumb:


----------



## johanr77

This thread would be incredibly short if folk that hated vw's and folk that love them didn't express their disgust or love.


----------



## should_do_more

The mk8 will be out before this thread ends!


----------



## johanr77

That is pretty much how the one I ordered will look. Never had a red car before thought it was time for a change.


----------



## Hardsworth

'johanr77' red cars are like the new white, red is coming back into fashion by the looks of things


----------



## Scottien

Looks distinctly boring.


----------



## johanr77

My last couple of cars had been dark metallic colours so I fancied something a bit brighter and all the publicity shots I'd seen of the GTD were red and I quite liked it. Even the a class I test drove was red and looked nice so I thought I would go red this time.


----------



## Kerr

johanr77 said:


> On the BMW site a M135i with metallic paint costs £31,070
> On the VW site a GTI with the performance pack and metallic costs £27,350
> 
> Thats basic spec only things added were the metallic paint.
> 
> Ok I'll concede that £27k plus change is a lot of money for a hatch but it's still almost £4k less than the beemer.


BMW have obviously incresed the price of a M135i. It was £29, 000 before.

The video used had the GTi with a DSG box and according to the written road test, the car is £28, 895.

The gap would still be there as the BMW sport auto is a £1600 option too.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

We are free to express our opinions & views of the Golf & of course the Golf is not going to appeal to everyone, but myself & DW58 ARE true Golf enthusiasts. 

There seems to be a lot of 'hatred' lately, mainly directed towards DW58. Ok you think he may 'waffle on' about his views & opinions which he is entitled to just like you lot are free to 'waffle' too!

Let's keep it civil chaps! :thumb:


----------



## SteveTDCi

If any of my posts come across as hatred, its not aimed at individuals, I just want people to realise there are other cars out there, but respect the fact people like Golfs


----------



## DW58

I don't have a problem with any of your posts Steve which usually come across as knowledgeable and well-informed, but those from others on this thread often don't don't.

In my thirty-five years of driving, I have owned a fair selection of cars viz: VW, VW, Fiat, Fiat, Isuzu, Isuzu, Subaru, Audi, Renault, VW in that order, keeping most for fairly long periods. Currently I happen to like the Golf, but I'm not saying I'll stay with them for ever. I just wish that other members would be more understanding and accept that we all like other makes rather than constantly knocking VW and the Golf. We Golf enthusiasts don't generally knock their cars ... ... ... except of course taking the wee-wee out of RP's Japanese hair dryer, but that's just for fun.

Just because they don't happen to like the Golf isn't reason to constantly criticise it from every angle as they do. Is it really so painful and difficult to acknowledge that the Golf is one of the greatest success stories of the motor world, whether they like it or not.

OK, I'll shut up ... ... ... for now


----------



## RisingPower

VW Golf-Fan said:


> We are free to express our opinions & views of the Golf & of course the Golf is not going to appeal to everyone, but myself & DW58 ARE true Golf enthusiasts.
> 
> There seems to be a lot of 'hatred' lately, mainly directed towards DW58. Ok you think he may 'waffle on' about his views & opinions which he is entitled to just like you lot are free to 'waffle' too!
> 
> Let's keep it civil chaps! :thumb:


I don't think it's hatred, I doubt it's aimed at a certain person, aside from one comment here and tbh I don't think it's even derailing when you ask people for their opinions on golfs. Which in turn I seem to see a mention of "tiny-dick bavarians".

It's strange to ask for opinions and then to accuse other opinions of derailing a thread...about opinions. Not just about the mk7 golf.

I'm not a golf enthusiast or vw enthusiast, but, I do sort of understand the appeal of different versions of golfs in different guises, but, I can't see the appeal of the mk7. That is different from respecting other peoples opinions of the mk7.

Equally, there do seem to be other threads where buying anything but a golf is frowned upon. Maybe this kind of ignorance is what causes these reactions.

I also am no brand snob, if a company makes a decent car, who gives a crap what the company is? Who'd have bought a datsun, thinking they'd now produce the gtr.


----------



## RisingPower

DW58 said:


> I just wish that other members would be more understanding and accept that we all like other makes rather than constantly knocking VW and the Golf. We Golf enthusiasts don't generally knock their cars ... ... ... except of course taking the wee-wee out of RP's Japanese hair dryer, but that's just for fun.


I'll have you know it has curling tongs too and can fit a *golf* bag in the back too


----------



## possul

Well I hope I haven't offended anyone as that was NOT the aim of my posts
I'm nearly stating my opinions.
I own a golf, work for vw (finish Friday though ) and happen like alot of vw's especially older ones tbh.
Things I have mentioned about the mk7 have been things I have picked up at work, bearing in mind ive driven a few mk7s already (not tried gti probably won't now either) i will nitt pick with them of course, with the customer base that these cars have obviously speaks for itself, they sell shed loads of them. Period.


----------



## VW Golf-Fan

What do you reckon to the MK6 Golf 'Match' then Possul, especially the 1.4 TSI (122)?


----------



## DW58

RisingPower said:


> I'll have you know it has curling tongs too and can fit a *golf* bag in the back too


I wouldn't expect anything less my dear chap 

If we can exchange a joke such as this we clearly don't have a problem, but was there ever - I don't think so.

There a huge difference between a joke and some of the other's posts.


----------



## possul

VW Golf-Fan said:


> What do you reckon to the MK6 Golf 'Match' then Possul, especially the 1.4 TSI (122)?


There good cars, not going to say otherwise. Prefer the dash of the mk6 but prefer the heater controls on the mk7. I've seen some shoddy plastic on the mk7, was going to post pictures but my crappy phone wouldn't focus on it!
Were not seeing any major faults apart from chains on the tsi lumps but there rare, and good engines really, economical for a petrol, pull quite well.
Nothing else to say about them though really!
Diesels are eating through egr valves and coolers but hey how you have a petrol!

Id have to have a gt tdi if I were buying a mk6


----------



## SteveTDCi

The mk7 drives nicer than the mk6 but I still prefer the looks of the mk6, the mk7 looks stretched, no doubt it will grow on me but it just looks odd. The 3 dor version works better though.

Picking up on bmw's though, we have one of the new shape 3 series estates on hire, it's only the 316d but initial impressions are, engine noisy and rattely, gearbox very obstructive, dials and ergonomics very good. Driving position absolutely spot on. The adjustment is fantastic. Steering very nice feel to it, you can tell it isn't having to drive and steer.

Would I have one over a golf, nope, it just doesn't do it for me. However, put a better engine in it and an auto box and it would improve no end.


----------



## T.D.K

New GTI beaten by Ford Focus ST (Auto Express) 

I didn't see that coming!


----------



## possul

Is there another review? Can't see another


----------



## T.D.K

That doesn't look like the new GTI, looks like the old model. 

Anyway, they basically said the GTI was a good car but lacked the excitement and handling the Ford offered. 

The review is from this weeks Auto Express and I believe they delay putting magazine stuff on their website straight away.


----------



## possul

My bad, look to alike


----------



## DW58

It states in the article it's the GTi Edition 35 so Mk.6 but that article looks to be around a year old so maybe it's not the current article.

Give the same three cars to a different reviewer and the result might be totally different.


----------



## possul

I didn't read it just found it and copied the Link!


----------



## DW58

Nor did I at first - went back for a second look hence the edit


----------



## Avanti

DW58 said:


> Nor did I at first - went back for a second look hence the edit


Earlier this afternoon I saw this...


----------



## SteveTDCi

This weeks autoexpress is the new golf gti


----------



## RisingPower

Avanti said:


> Earlier this afternoon I saw this...
> 
> AMG vs 135i vs GTI MK7


Christ, they all look boring and sound boring in a boring review


----------



## T.D.K

DW58 said:


> It states in the article it's the GTi Edition 35 so Mk.6 but that article looks to be around a year old so maybe it's not the current article.
> 
> Give the same three cars to a different reviewer and the result might be totally different.


They do, other reviewers also share their thoughts on the end page of the review.


----------



## Monkeyboy

DW58 said:


> Give the same three cars to a different reviewer and the result might be totally different.


I very much doubt it.


----------



## Avanti

RisingPower said:


> Christ, they all look boring and sound boring in a boring review


Whilst you may say that, I did see one of those Mercs on the road today, they do look v nice, looking at the general poll of what the members here own, looks and sound are soon put on a back burner when price and running costs are considered


----------



## DW58

Monkeyboy said:


> I very much doubt it.


Well obviously, what do I know


----------



## RisingPower

Avanti said:


> Whilst you may say that, I did see one of those Mercs on the road today, they do look v nice, looking at the general poll of what the members here own, looks and sound are soon put on a back burner when price and running costs are considered


But for me the thing is, the running costs aren't going to be *that* cheap.

Sure, the merc isn't slow, but i'm not sure what makes it stand out? The looks are ok, but not that great.

Dare I say it, it looks a bit volvo c30 ish.


----------



## Avanti

RisingPower said:


> But for me the thing is, the running costs aren't going to be *that* cheap.
> 
> Sure, the merc isn't slow, but i'm not sure what makes it stand out? The looks are ok, but not that great.


Aye, but cars can be like bees and wasps, bees are busy and they work hard and make honey and they are good at that, some may even be yellow or black, wasps can mess up your day, they try to kill you and if you try to kill it, they get their mates and they try to kill you too.
Basically what I'm trying to say is the majority of cars do not stand out, and that is not their aim to stand out, the cars that are designed with that in mind are expensive and often well beyond the reach of 90% of car owners even if their credit score allows


----------



## RisingPower

Avanti said:


> Aye, but cars can be like bees and wasps, bees are busy and they work hard and make honey and they are good at that, some may even be yellow or black, wasps can mess up your day, they try to kill you and if you try to kill it, they get their mates and they try to kill you too.
> Basically what I'm trying to say is the majority of cars do not stand out, and that is not their aim to stand out, the cars that are designed with that in mind are expensive and often well beyond the reach of 90% of car owners even if their credit score allows


I want a hornet 

Gawd, 2 litres in a merc too, tiny thing. I only like big things 

I honestly don't think that some of the cars that are designed not to stand out, are really that cheap to run. The 335i for example, has its own little expensive faults as i'm aware, no doubt a turbo on such a small engine (the merc) producing such a large amount of power, can't exactly be low maintenance.


----------



## Avanti

RisingPower said:


> I want a hornet
> 
> Gawd, 2 litres in a merc too, tiny thing. I only like big things
> 
> I honestly don't think that some of the cars that are designed not to stand out, are really that cheap to run. The 335i for example, has its own little expensive faults as i'm aware, no doubt a turbo on such a small engine (the merc) producing such a large amount of power, can't exactly be low maintenance.


Only 116g/km and over 40mpg, the Golf is real car for real money affordable so I'm in on the likey button :thumb:


----------



## DW58

RisingPower said:


> I only like big things


Were you speaking to Ross in the "What's made your day" thread? 

Sounds like he has it sussed :thumb:

Yes, I know ... ... ... I must not derail threads x100


----------



## RisingPower

Avanti said:


> Only 116g/km and over 40mpg, the Golf is real car for real money affordable so I'm in on the likey button :thumb:


Ya but even as they said, the golf really isn't in the same class as the merc performance wise. It's a far more sensible car and it still is a fair amount of money for what it gets you.


----------



## RisingPower

DW58 said:


> Were you speaking to Ross in the "What's made your day" thread?
> 
> Sounds like he has it sussed :thumb:
> 
> Yes, I know ... ... ... I must not derail threads x100


Ross, big? Nah


----------



## possul

The golf r should be tested between those two cars, not the gti


----------



## T.D.K

Why? Vw charge a little more for the gti than the st and megane so these cars are its rivals. Same sort of power in all of them too.


----------



## possul

Yes in the megane and focus. Bmw and merc are higher powered hatchbacks which fits in better with the R


----------



## 182_Blue

possul said:


> The golf r should be tested between those two cars, not the gti


Agree :thumb: , your putting the Gti up against the M division and the AMG division which is the sports division of both manufacturers so its ony fair to put them against the R division of VW, they obviously didn't as its not out yet.


----------



## Kerr

Shaun said:


> Agree :thumb: , your putting the Gti up against the M division and the AMG division which is the sports division of both manufacturers so its ony fair to put them against the R division of VW, they obviously didn't as its not out yet.


That's not an M divsion car either. They had nothing to do with it.

The 1M is still to come.


----------



## Blackroc

Kerr said:


> That's not an M divsion car either. They had nothing to do with it.
> 
> The 1M is still to come.


*cough

M Division worked on the gearbox, suspension, steering, braking, engine and sound. Officially it's 35% M according to BMW.

But....it's not 'sharp' enough to be classed as an M


----------



## RisingPower

possul said:


> The golf r should be tested between those two cars, not the gti


Is the golf mk7 r even available yet?

It does seem a bit of an unfair comparison, but they all are fairly near the same price.


----------



## DW58

RisingPower said:


> Is the golf mk7 r even available yet?


Nope, not yet - it's a while off yet but has been spied being tested on "The Ring".


----------



## RisingPower

DW58 said:


> Nope, not yet - it's a while off yet but has been spied being tested on "The Ring".


Yeah so my point was they can only compare what's on sale. But tbh it's a stupid, irrelevant and quite boring comparison amyways.


----------



## DW58

RisingPower said:


> Yeah so my point was they can only compare what's on sale. But tbh it's a stupid, irrelevant and quite boring comparison amyways.


So true, and like statistics any review can always be manipulated to achieve the desired result.


----------



## Kerr

Blackroc said:


> *cough
> 
> M Division worked on the gearbox, suspension, steering, braking, engine and sound. Officially it's 35% M according to BMW.
> 
> But....it's not 'sharp' enough to be classed as an M


Very few parts are bespoke to the car. M lite is the term people are terming it.

Just reading the previews of the Golf R. It seems that is won't have as much power as the S3, yet will cost the same. That's a very odd approach.

Predictions have DSG cars costing £35k.


----------



## possul

DW58 said:


> So true, and like statistics any review can always be manipulated to achieve the desired result.


I always take reviews such as those with a pinch of salt.
To think to review a car fully it has to be owned to fully understand what/how the cars feels/drives/day to day living etc


----------



## possul

Kerr said:


> Very few parts are bespoke to the car. M lite is the term people are terming it.
> 
> Just reading the previews of the Golf R. It seems that is won't have as much power as the S3, yet will cost the same. That's a very odd approach.
> 
> Predictions have DSG cars costing £35k.


Il be disappointed if there is not 300bhp or more available


----------



## Kerr

possul said:


> Il be disappointed if there is not 300bhp or more available


286bhp is the predictions with the Audi S3 being 296bhp.


----------



## Kerr

Shaun said:


> Agree :thumb: , your putting the Gti up against the M division and the AMG division which is the sports division of both manufacturers so its ony fair to put them against the R division of VW, they obviously didn't as its not out yet.


Still can't understand why a VW R would be used in the same breath as a M or AMG car.

Two have real pedigree and the other hasn't.

It won't come close.


----------



## possul

I agree.
I meant it purely for the performance side, the golf would of never kept up with the bmw and merc so an unfair test for all out performance. The R would be more suitable for that type of test.


----------



## DW58

Kerr said:


> Still can't understand why a VW R would be used in the same breath as a M or AMG car.


It's really quite simple to not understand what you don't want to - especially when wearing blinkers.

You've clearly pre-judged each review before you read them.


----------



## Kerr

DW58 said:


> It's really quite simple to not understand what you don't want to - especially when wearing blinkers.
> 
> You've clearly pre-judged each review before you read them.


There are people wearing blinkers in this thread. It's not me.

I think you are the most biased person I've ever come across on any forum. Including brand specific forums where bum kissing goes too far.

When people start comparing VWs to M or AMG cars, blinkered isn't the word to use.

Delusional is more fitting.


----------



## Blackroc

possul said:


> I agree.
> I meant it purely for the performance side, the golf would of never kept up with the bmw and merc so an unfair test for all out performance. The R would be more suitable for that type of test.


One of VW Magazines testers / editors was recently given a current Scirocco R to review against a new M135i. He was staggered at how big the gap in performance is, and at how well priced it is.

Performance wise, the new GTI is streets off an M135, but cost wise they are very similar, this is why they are being tested against each other. In reality, it's a hot hatch against a hyper hatch.

It's also worth remembering that M135s are Rolling Road'ing at circa 340bhp as standard, not the 320 that is being published. It's why it's able to keep pace with M3s and 1Ms


----------



## Kerr

Blackroc said:


> One of VW Magazines testers / editors was recently given a current Scirocco R to review against a new M135i. He was staggered at how big the gap in performance is, and at how well priced it is.
> 
> Performance wise, the new GTI is streets off an M135, but cost wise they are very similar, this is why they are being tested against each other. In reality, it's a hot hatch against a hyper hatch.


The latest batch of hot hatchbacks will all be close to 300bhp.

I think the GTi is pitching itself too low.

We had all the same arguments with the MK6 being underpowered in comparison to the previous batch hot hatches.

It won't be long before 220bhp will fall into the warm hatch bracket.


----------



## DW58

Kerr said:


> There are people wearing blinkers in this thread. It's not me.
> 
> I think you are the most biased person I've ever come across on any forum. Including brand specific forums where bum kissing goes too far.
> 
> When people start comparing VWs to M or AMG cars, blinkered isn't the word to use.
> 
> Delusional is more fitting.


Excuse me, who's doing the comparing, it's certainly not me. No bum kissing, I just happen to like a particular brand, a loyalty which has been in the family since the mid-1960s which I don't believe is a crime.

BTW I'm not delusional or deluded according to my sister-in-law (consultant psychiatrist) - she uses those terms for the drivers of a certain Bavarian car brand who use their cars to compensate for their physical inadequacies, a theory popularised by another shrink from just south of BMW's home turf 

Pot ... ... kettle ... ... kettle ... ... pot?


----------



## Kerr

Blackroc said:


> It's also worth remembering that M135s are Rolling Road'ing at circa 340bhp as standard, not the 320 that is being published. It's why it's able to keep pace with M3s and 1Ms


I read this about loads of cars.

I've seen 2 M135i on a rolling road. Both were just under 320bhp.

0-100mph in 11secs 0-100mph is fast, but what you'd expect considering that heavier, slightly less powered N55 3 series BMWs aren't much slower.

Most of the new BMWs have significantly faster 0-60mph times.


----------



## Kerr

DW58 said:


> Excuse me, who's doing the comparing, it's certainly not me. No bum kissing, I just happen to like a particular brand, a loyalty which has been in the family since the mid-1960s which I don't believe is a crime.
> 
> BTW I'm not delusional or deluded according to my sister-in-law (consultant psychiatrist) - she uses those terms for the drivers of a certain Bavarian car brand who use their cars to compensate for their physical inadequacies, a theory popularised by another shrink from just south of BMW's home turf
> 
> Pot ... ... kettle ... ... kettle ... ... pot?


Spare me your nonsense.


----------



## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> There are people wearing blinkers in this thread. It's not me.
> 
> I think you are the most biased person I've ever come across on any forum. Including brand specific forums where bum kissing goes too far.
> 
> When people start comparing VWs to M or AMG cars, blinkered isn't the word to use.
> 
> Delusional is more fitting.


Now hang on a minute, m sport is freely given and means precisely diddly normally. I'm not really sure there is such a large distinction in place.

There are quite a fewer lower range amg cars too.

I think there's almost a little brand kissing there.

You start comparing the c63 with a golf r and it would be absurd. You compare the 2 litre amgs to a golf r, it's much closer.

You'd be blinkered to think all m and amg engined cars are such massively awesome cars.

I actually liked that golf they did with the absurd 6 litre w12 was it? But I really can't think of any vws 'd love to own, the new m3 maybe, lots of bigger engined mercs could be fun, but nothing comes close to a vette or quite a few other yank cars for me.

Tbh it's equally boring to read posts about the bmw superiority as vw superiority.


----------



## Kerr

RisingPower said:


> Now hang on a minute, m sport is freely given and means precisely diddly normally. I'm not really sure there is such a large distinction in place.
> 
> There are quite a fewer lower range amg cars too.
> 
> I think there's almost a little brand kissing there.
> 
> You start comparing the c63 with a golf r and it would be absurd. You compare the 2 litre amgs to a golf r, it's much closer.
> 
> You'd be blinkered to think all m and amg engined cars are such massively awesome cars.


To a cerain degree, I agree.

The A45 AMG, to me, is a watered down AMG car. Thr first thing that springs to mind about an AMG car is a thumping engine and RWD. Something the AMG45 isn't

The Golf R will still give up 70BHP and costs almost the same as the AMG with a DSG box.

The Golf isn't in the same bracket of performance and isn't close when it comes to brand image.

Golf drivers don't like their cars compared to their natural competition.

It seems that the Focus and Astra are dismissed with contempt.

But to start throwing the R brand into the same category as AMG or M is just staggering to me.

Not only because they are on a different level performance wise, both have pedigree and history.


----------



## RisingPower

Blackroc said:


> One of VW Magazines testers / editors was recently given a current Scirocco R to review against a new M135i. He was staggered at how big the gap in performance is, and at how well priced it is.
> 
> Performance wise, the new GTI is streets off an M135, but cost wise they are very similar, this is why they are being tested against each other. In reality, it's a hot hatch against a hyper hatch.
> 
> It's also worth remembering that M135s are Rolling Road'ing at circa 340bhp as standard, not the 320 that is being published. It's why it's able to keep pace with M3s and 1Ms


286bhp in a golf r weighing ~1200kg and 340bhp in an m135i weighing ~300kg more.

Is that really such a large distinction now?


----------



## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> To a cerain degree, I agree.
> 
> The A45 AMG, to me, is a watered down AMG car. Thr first thing that springs to mind about an AMG car is a thumping engine and RWD. Something the AMG45 isn't
> 
> The Golf R will still give up 70BHP and costs almost the same as the AMG with a DSG box.
> 
> The Golf isn't in the same bracket of performance and isn't close when it comes to brand image.
> 
> Golf drivers don't like their cars compared to their natural competition.
> 
> It seems that the Focus and Astra are dismissed with contempt.
> 
> But to start throwing the R brand into the same category as AMG or M is just staggering to me.
> 
> Not only because they are on a different level performance wise, both have pedigree and history.


I'm not so sure the r is in such a different category to the m135i, sure the gti is entirely outclassed by the m135i, but the r is very similar in performance and has a huge weight advantage.

I don't give a crap about brand image, I care about the car. The golf r looks surprisingly competitive, then again, none of them really appeal to me.

I'm still not sure what the pedigree or history is about. Gtr and vettes have none, but they compete with some seriously quick porsches.


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## Kerr

RisingPower said:


> Tbh it's equally boring to read posts about the bmw superiority as vw superiority.


To be fair, I don't hammer home BMWs to other people and we don't read it anywhere near what we get VW on here.

I've defended them on here when people have spouted nonsense. People do like to have a go at BMWs and often when the are factually wrong.

We've seen a few threads on here specifically started to highlight BMW problems. We don't have those for other brands.

I've argued my case that the 335i is one of the best bang for your buck used cars. I've never pretended it is an amazing car though and never pretend it isn't without its faults. As a real world every day car it ticks a lot of boxes.

I think I give a balanced view and I don't think I'm at all biased.

I do come across as a VW hater as it seems 95% of car discussion on here revolves around VW.

It would be good to have more car focussed discussions on here rather than what Golf have you got and how many MPGs do you get?

Whatever happened to my car is faster than yours threads?


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## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> To be fair, I don't hammer home BMWs to other people and we don't read it anywhere near what we get VW on here.
> 
> I've defended them on here when people have spouted nonsense. People do like to have a go at BMWs and often when the are factually wrong.
> 
> We've seen a few threads on here specifically started to highlight BMW problems. We don't have those for other brands.
> 
> I've argued my case that the 335i is one of the best bang for your buck used cars. I've never pretended it is an amazing car though and never pretend it isn't without its faults. As a real world every day car it ticks a lot of boxes.
> 
> I think I give a balanced view and I don't think I'm at all biased.
> 
> I do come across as a VW hater as it seems 95% of car discussion on here revolves around VW.
> 
> It would be good to have more car focussed discussions on here rather than what Golf have you got and how many MPGs do you get?
> 
> Whatever happened to my car is faster than yours threads?


I'd hope we have no boring brand ignorance at all tbh.

I think maybe there is some ignorance to other cars having issues, though I seem to recall quite a few threads with vws just having the same issues as other cars.


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## Kerr

RisingPower said:


> I'm not so sure the r is in such a different category to the m135i, sure the gti is entirely outclassed by the m135i, but the r is very similar in performance and has a huge weight advantage.
> 
> I don't give a crap about brand image, I care about the car. The golf r looks surprisingly competitive, then again, none of them really appeal to me.
> 
> I'm still not sure what the pedigree or history is about. Gtr and vettes have none, but they compete with some seriously quick porsches.


The Golf R will cost more than the M135i so should be compared.

It's hard to ignore the M135i as it comes with so much for the cost. For BMW to sell a car with a 3.0 six cylinder car for less than four pot engined cars, isn't what you'd expect to see.

But it isn't an M car and we're throwing the R brand into the mix with AMG and M where it just doesn't fit.

The GTR and Corvettes do have rich history. Everyone knows what a Corvette is.

One of the most iconic cars ever.


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## johanr77

Kerr said:


> I do come across as a VW hater as it seems 95% of car discussion on here revolves around VW.


Your on a thread about vw and one of the most vocal on that thread, if you come across as a hater its because you've made the effort on more than one occasions to express your dislike of their product. If you don't like VW chat maybe its better to avoid a thread specifically about them.


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## Avanti

johanr77 said:


> Your on a thread about vw and one of the most vocal on that thread, if you come across as a hater its because you've made the effort on more than one occasions to express your dislike of their product. If you don't like VW chat maybe its better to avoid a thread specifically about them.


In Kerr's defence though this is about free speech, and not everyone is obliged to like the MK7.

Any new version of a car is 'disliked' until it gets used to in the market place, look when the Fod Sierra arrived (those that are old enough) , the base models I'm never really keen on, I still feel the same about the MK5 Golf, the MK4 only the keen eye could tell them apart.


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## RisingPower

johanr77 said:


> Your on a thread about vw and one of the most vocal on that thread, if you come across as a hater its because you've made the effort on more than one occasions to express your dislike of their product. If you don't like VW chat maybe its better to avoid a thread specifically about them.


Sorry, what was the topic of the thread again?


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## RisingPower

Kerr said:


> The Golf R will cost more than the M135i so should be compared.
> 
> It's hard to ignore the M135i as it comes with so much for the cost. For BMW to sell a car with a 3.0 six cylinder car for less than four pot engined cars, isn't what you'd expect to see.
> 
> But it isn't an M car and we're throwing the R brand into the mix with AMG and M where it just doesn't fit.
> 
> The GTR and Corvettes do have rich history. Everyone knows what a Corvette is.
> 
> One of the most iconic cars ever.


Hmm it's 3-4k and that's about the same as the difference between the a45 and m135i in that test right?

The m135i does come with a lot, but I don't care about options tbh. A car is to be driven and enjoyed, not to watch tv in imo.

It seems to fit performance wise with the cars being compared and they're all hatches, so i'm not sure I see the issue?

The gtr really has no history at all. Corvette, yeah, bad example 

Love vettes :argie:


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## johanr77

Misunderstand gents not saying he can't comment just saying if he dislikes VW chatter which he suggests on more than one occasion he does why does he spend so much time on a thread which is specifically about vw's. Does that not strike anyone else as odd.


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## RisingPower

johanr77 said:


> Misunderstand gents not saying he can't comment just saying if he dislikes VW chatter which he suggests on more than one occasion he does why does he spend so much time on a thread which is specifically about vw's. Does that not strike anyone else as odd.


Maybe because there are some opinions on golfs which can be discussed?

I'll tell you what strikes me as odd, the complete blind ignorance to any other cars existing apart from those they have an active/vested/biased interest in.


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## kh904

johanr77 said:


> Your on a thread about vw and one of the most vocal on that thread, if you come across as a hater its because you've made the effort on more than one occasions to express your dislike of their product. If you don't like VW chat maybe its better to avoid a thread specifically about them.


But to be far on Kerr the tread title does ask for positive & negative opinions. If your asking people to avoid posting anything negative (regardless of how reasonable they may or may not be), then then you will only get a positively biased thread.

Even if the OP didn't ask for negative opinions, i still also believe people can & should have alternative views or challenge what has been posted and then everyone can then present their arguments for their case.
I've posted on many threads about certain subjects and some people strongly disagree with me. I have no problem with that, as long as they argue their case, but when i try to provide evidence for my argument they don't want to acknowledge it.

I feel Kerr has valid points/arguments, but that doesn't automatically make him a hater.
The OP is also entitled to love a particular car regardless.
It's all subjective!

Me personally i don't have a dog in the race, i've never riven or owned a VW Golf. I understand why people like them and I wouldn't say no to one if someone gave one to me (depends on the spec), but the new model doesn't do anything emotionally for me. (that goes for many modern cars these days imo).

I think many of the German cars have become really safe when it comes to the design department, to the point they are becoming bland - IMO.

There's very little difference (style wise) between the last few Golfs, where as the Renault megane 3 door is a real head turner (i hve no idea on how it drives though).

To me, the hype with the new model is very much like the hype with the last few apple models - an improvement? Yes, maybe but really not such a difference to warrant the hype & trade for a newer model. I think more customers are twigging on that they are being taken advantaged of their brand loyalty - again just my opinion!

:thumb:


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## johanr77

If you an express an opinion, people disagree with it and eventually you more or less stop or arguing or agree to disagree. I don't think I've met anyone yet convinced to change their opinion by someone repeating the same thing again and again, especially when it is something like personal preference. Some of the guff on this thread gets very personal and to me it's certainly the intention of some posters to make it that way. Should it really matter to anyone else if someone blindly wants to buy the same gear off the same manufacturer, I may chip in and offer an alternative but there is little point in getting bloody minded about it. Some folk don't want to know. 

I also wouldn't consider it blind ignorance to other manufacturers if someone likes a product and sticks to it. Personally speaking I tried many other options but went with the golf because it did what I needed it to do, was available when I was going to change and financially was a good deal in comparison to the two other cars I was seriously considering getting. Thing is to some people they see ooh that guy has had three golfs in a row he must be a fanboy but they don't know my car history and if they did they'd know I've had as many fords as vw and always consider them when getting a car for me or the missus.


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## Avanti

johanr77 said:


> If you an express an opinion, people disagree with it and eventually you more or less stop or arguing or agree to disagree. I don't think I've met anyone yet convinced to change their opinion by someone repeating the same thing again and again, especially when it is something like personal preference. Some of the guff on this thread gets very personal and to me it's certainly the intention of some posters to make it that way. Should it really matter to anyone else if someone blindly wants to buy the same gear off the same manufacturer, I may chip in and offer an alternative but there is little point in getting bloody minded about it. Some folk don't want to know.
> 
> I also wouldn't consider it blind ignorance to other manufacturers if someone likes a product and sticks to it. Personally speaking I tried many other options but went with the golf because it did what I needed it to do, was available when I was going to change and financially was a good deal in comparison to the two other cars I was seriously considering getting. Thing is to some people they see ooh that guy has had three golfs in a row he must be a fanboy but they don't know my car history and if they did they'd know I've had as many fords as vw and always consider them when getting a car for me or the missus.


You raise some valid forum patterns, like you say it is not unique to cars, people do like the 'sameness', for instance with music that's what makes rock rock or classical classical, reggae reggae etc.

The same 'debate' goes on in the wax, eg I want a wax have a budget of £100, then the answers get a £20 tub that 'everyone' else has and it lasts ages....

So the same continues with the cars....
I wonder if every car cost the same price eg say £20k (running costs remain the same), if we would really see a mass of Maybach's and Bugatti on the road , as the all round pracitcality of ownership comes into play not just the price, hence the popularity of MPVs a coupe is going to be of next to no use, I suppose some do get 'offended' if say someone purchased say an S3, and they could have had a VXR and saved a few grand in the process, but the two cars are not the same and it's not always about getting everything for 'nothing'. And/or personal circumstance will come in to the factoring.
It's like the negative people that say " I wouldn't get a brand new car, it loses thousands as soon as it is driven off the forecourt" however who buys a brand new car drives it home and then puts it up for sale?


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## 182_Blue

Lets have a rest from this for a bit :thumb:


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