# Dealer Damage



## kos (Jun 19, 2008)

Evening All

Ive had a rather unfortunate experience with my local BMW dealer today.

My e46 went in for its airbag recall, a one hour job and i waited until it was done. Got there just before my 12pm appointment, signed the paperwork and got my car back with invoice at 1.17pm

Now, i will say that if the car had gone for a service i would have made it clear to them to *not* wash the car however as this was a recall job that would take no longer than 1 hour, so i did not think they would wash it. The paperwork did say that they would wash it (Standard BMW practice to print this on any paperwork that gets issued to any car booked in for work)

i got he car back it and it needs correction, there's no 2 ways about it. TFR stains on some panels, swirls and it is vile.

I've had the car 2 years, it is 12 years old but i did full correction on it and bar some stone chips and a couple RDS's it was flawless. its always been safely washed, and it had a light polish and wax in november. It is all original paint on every panel (consisted reading with a paint depth reader)

i had it out with the service manager who was very dismissive. Accused me of being a new customer with an agenda. Little does he know that I've been using the same dealer for parts for the past 15 years and probably spent more than £20,000 in parts for my other cars.

at one stage they offered to take it in and valet it (i declined initially but i decided to accept it as a way of moving forward to a resolution) then that was retracted because i asked for a courtesy car. He said he didn't want to give me one and he suggested i may not even have a divers licence !!!

Talk about good customer service !

eventually after i said i'm not moving and just sat in his office he threatened to call the police (not good, i don't need police to get involved due work requiring a CRC and being a holder of a shot gun certificate, any accusations from them about me being threatening means licence gets withdrawn)

so, i left on the provision that the dealer MD call me

he did, and he was as dismissive as his service manager.

i know other members have has similar issues but it tends to be when they have clearly told the dealer to not wash a car but they have.

my issue is that they have not given the car back to me in the same condition i gave it to them

they have basically in 5 minutes put almost as much damage on the paint as there was before i purchased it

do i have fighting chance if i pursue this ? My next step would be to contat BMW GB and see what they say

here's a 50/50 photo of the correction work i did 20 months ago and the rest of how i got it back today



how i got it back


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## JamesCotton (Feb 25, 2013)

Bloody hell mate, I would contact BMW GB. If that happened at my company we would take it in and mop it for you


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## Paul04 (Jul 26, 2013)

:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho:doublesho

Gutted!


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

JamesCotton said:


> Bloody hell mate, I would contact BMW GB. If that happened at my company we would take it in and mop it for you


**** me if they did that washing it letting them loose with a machine jeeeeeeeez dont even go there


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## JamesCotton (Feb 25, 2013)

AllenF said:


> **** me if they did that washing it letting them loose with a machine jeeeeeeeez dont even go there


But then if they mess it up you get a free paint job, you can just keep going back until your happy, if they complain trading standards is there


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## 20vKarlos (Aug 8, 2009)

Firstly, go back to the dealer, cool head on and voice record what is said. (Easily done via apps on phones etc) 

See if you can get them to pay for it to go to a detailer of your choice. If not, ask for their names and contact details and let them know that they'll receive their next correspondence via BMW GB HQ. 

Contact HQ and tell them that you are a VERY unhappy customer, make them aware of your history, make them aware of your custom and faith in the brand, but on this occasion you feel that all of your hard work has been ruined! 

Also send them pictures! Including a picture of the car before it went into the dealers, (within 7 days if you have one) or send them 10 pictures of the car from the last 6 months etc... This will show them that you take great care in your vehicle and you expect them too also! 

Get on it asap though :thumb:


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

If that's 20months ago then no chance

How are you going to prove they did it?


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## suspal (Dec 29, 2011)

Pillocks is the only word to describe them,fell for you no doubt you'll take your custom elsewhere,sod em they treated you with contempt,their loss,the plus side you'll have time to spend on the car making her look good again.


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## kos (Jun 19, 2008)

the body shop manager mentioned G3, i will not be using any body shop that still has G3 compound !

he also claimed that a wax can sort it out !!


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## 20vKarlos (Aug 8, 2009)

Kimo73 said:


> If that's 20months ago then no chance
> 
> How are you going to prove they did it?


You've misread Kimo :thumb:


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

20vKarlos said:


> You've misread Kimo :thumb:


Where?

Correction pics are from 20 months ago it says


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## JamesCotton (Feb 25, 2013)

20vKarlos said:


> You've misread Kimo :thumb:


I think he meant that it was corrected 20 months ago so how will he prove that it was done by BMW and not in the 20 months since it was corrected by the owner


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

That is clearly unacceptable, hope you get a satisfactory conclusion. The colour looks really nice though.


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## 20vKarlos (Aug 8, 2009)

I agree with that in that case as the owner could be inflicting swirls and not knowing it with his wash and wax regime. Then BMW get it, strip the crap and also use a brush... 

Personally, this is what happened to me, but I was too kind and said "ah don't worry you lot can't sort it anyway, I shall sort it myself"


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

20vKarlos said:


> I agree with that in that case as the owner could be inflicting swirls and not knowing it with his wash and wax regime. Then BMW get it, strip the crap and also use a brush...
> 
> Personally, this is what happened to me, but I was too kind and said "ah don't worry you lot can't sort it anyway, I shall sort it myself"


It doesn't matter how safe your wash is

You will always leave some kind of mark behind, maybe not as severe as in the pics but it won't have stayed like the correction pics for 2 years that's for sure

Yes it's bad but get the polisher out and sort it

Probably about time it was polished again if it's been that long anyway


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## JamesCotton (Feb 25, 2013)

I would still contact BMW UK as how they treated you was not ok, you might at least get something free next service?


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## kos (Jun 19, 2008)

20vKarlos said:


> Firstly, go back to the dealer, cool head on and voice record what is said. (Easily done via apps on phones etc)
> 
> See if you can get them to pay for it to go to a detailer of your choice. If not, ask for their names and contact details and let them know that they'll receive their next correspondence via BMW GB HQ.
> 
> ...


All sound advise and its along the lines of what i am thinking. However that car went there dirty and has not been washed in 2 weeks. I will not wash my car unless i have time to do it properly

They have made clear they will not be contributing to any cost, so going back there will not help at all



Kimo73 said:


> If that's 20months ago then no chance
> 
> How are you going to prove they did it?


point taken, however the point i was making was that i had it as good a new 20 months ago. it was almost as good a few weeks back when it had its winter protection detail

this how the car looked in august and the second one is tom october. this is my daily hack which i don't really take photos of

August 2014

October 2014 when it was photographed by a well know magazine 


Karlos

my wash technique is pretty decent. there are a few people on here who know what i'm like with my cars.

power wash, snow foam, 2 buckets, 2 mitts, wash panel by panel and rinsing the mitt as i go along and i use a different kit row the lower sections as well. Drying towel, blow water out of the crevices and QD and Z8 every now an then


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## Soul boy 68 (Sep 8, 2013)

JamesCotton said:


> I would still contact BMW UK as how they treated you was not ok, you might at least get something free next service?


If that happened to me, I would not trust BMW to even service my car.


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## kos (Jun 19, 2008)

Kimo73 said:


> It doesn't matter how safe your wash is
> 
> You will always leave some kind of mark behind, maybe not as severe as in the pics but it won't have stayed like the correction pics for 2 years that's for sure
> 
> ...


agreed, but i did give it a once over in november and it was spot on. There's not way that after 2 years id have the car looking like that. Im no animal when it comes down to my cars.

its not only the damage caused that ****ed me off, its the attitude of the place. The parts guys who know me well were equally shocked and amazed at the way i was spoken to.

coming from a customer service back round, i wouldn't ever dare of speaking to one of my customers like that let alone make accusations.

the cheek of the service manager to suggest i had an agenda/motive was laughable


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## JamesCotton (Feb 25, 2013)

Soul boy 68 said:


> If that happened to me, I would not trust BMW to even service my car.


Maybe a BMW teddy bear then? :thumb:


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## kos (Jun 19, 2008)

Soul boy 68 said:


> That is clearly unacceptable, hope you get a satisfactory conclusion. The colour looks really nice though.


Thank you

colour is techno violet :thumb:


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

kos said:


> agreed, but i did give it a once over in november and it was spot on. There's not way that after 2 years id have the car looking like that. Im no animal when it comes down to my cars.
> 
> its not only the damage caused that ****ed me off, its the attitude of the place. The parts guys who know me well were equally shocked and amazed at the way i was spoken to.
> 
> ...


How are you to prove that to the dealer though ...


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

I don't think you've got a cat in hells chance of getting anything other than a token goodwill gesture (maybe a key ring!)

They did exactly what they said they would do and what you signed permission for them to do. 

I managed to get Audi to compensate me when they washed my A3 after being told not to. 

The fact that it's already been to the stage where they're threatening to call police suggests to me you'll get nowhere. I don't think trading standards of even courts would find in your favour.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

Don't know what to say that hasn't already been mentioned but I will say that the way you were treated by them was despicable.

Whatever happened to the customer is always right figure of speech?

I wouldn't leave it there despite their threats i.e. Police etc. as they have technically 'damaged' your car even though you didn't state this one time not to wash it because you didn't expect them to (fair enough.)

I would personally go in & speak to the branch manager and state that you would like some sort of goodwill gesture there and then or you will have no option to take this further with BMW UK/HQ.

Hope that helps & keep us updated.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

Nanoman said:


> I managed to get Audi to compensate me when they washed my A3 after being told not to.


Good on you mate, seems you're one of the few that have actually got a good outcome in these circumstances!

Can I ask what sort of 'compensation' did you receive from Audi?


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Nanoman said:


> I don't think you've got a cat in hells chance of getting anything other than a token goodwill gesture (maybe a key ring!)
> 
> They did exactly what they said they would do and what you signed permission for them to do.
> 
> ...


Agree with this 100%. What they have done does not affect the value of your car.


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## squiretolley (Mar 10, 2014)

Christ almighty they've done a right number on that! Not sure how they've managed to inflict that much damage. Definately pursue it with BMW GB. 

A picture speaks a thousand words, so you're in a strong position I think.


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## Rundie (Oct 2, 2007)

Good luck with BMW GB, I've had dealings with them in the past, hard work.


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## kos (Jun 19, 2008)

Nanoman said:


> I don't think you've got a cat in hells chance of getting anything other than a token goodwill gesture (maybe a key ring!)
> 
> They did exactly what they said they would do and what you signed permission for them to do.
> 
> ...


yep, the were going to call the police because i refused to move from his office and from the premises unless they came back with an option to move forward when the service manager said "leave my office now, I'm too busy for this"

i doubt they call the police, it wouldn't look good for business either.

Regarding the document, by signing that document they also enter into a contract and they should return the car to me as it was, but that is not the case. It may be a satisfactory service for 95% of their customers but its not for me.



Kimo73 said:


> How are you to prove that to the dealer though ...


i do have photos of the car front he past 12 months which show it to be in a much better condition, mainly ones from a photo shoot in october.

i also have a long serving passion for cars going back 20 years, including detailing, i've restored a few cars, i'm active with with the BMW car club, contributed with articles to a couple of car magazines, had 5 cars featured over the years, won show and shine events, prepped cars for concours d'elegnce and won.

i'd like to think some of that will show me to be an enthusiast and not just some mug off the street with an old bmw looking for a freebie which is not the case.

Any reasonable person (should it go to court) would on the balance of all probability see that i have no agenda to pursue this other than to get something back for the damage they have inflicted. even if it was just £150 to cover my effort for a day or so to improve the appearance of the car.

Far better than and a invoice from a professional detailer at £500+ for correction or it take up their valuable work shop space for a day costing them £110 per hour.

The assistant body shop manger acknowledged that there were swirls and holograms, marring until he was slapped down by the service manager



rf860 said:


> Agree with this 100%. What they have done does not affect the value of your car.


really ?


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

Yes, those marks are just swirls. 99.9% of people wouldn't even notice them.

I'd just take it on the chin and lesson learned!

I also learned the hard way, car got washed by dealer with a brush - swirled to hell and a nasty dent in the quarter panel. Luckily they agreed to sort the dent.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Anyone knows that you can provide photos just like you have on a car that actually had just as many swirls. AF triple, Blacklight, EZ Creme... There's loads of filler heavy glazes that would do the job. 

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think you've got a leg to stand on.


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

I'm not saying you're not an enthusiast 

Over the past 12 months won't cut the mustard with them

You need hard proof that it was them who done the damage

Also, photo shoot pictures mean nothing, half the show cars you see looking glorious in pics are always swirl heaven when you go to shows -.-


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## kos (Jun 19, 2008)

Nanoman said:


> Anyone knows that you can provide photos just like you have on a car that actually had just as many swirls. AF triple, Blacklight, EZ Creme... There's loads of filler heavy glazes that would do the job.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong but I don't think you've got a leg to stand on.


True, i do have a bottle of the new formula SRP i may try out.



rf860 said:


> Yes, those marks are just swirls. 99.9% of people wouldn't even notice them.
> 
> I'd just take it on the chin and lesson learned!
> 
> I also learned the hard way, car got washed by dealer with a brush - swirled to hell and a nasty dent in the quarter panel. Luckily they agreed to sort the dent.


Lesson has been learnt, thats for sure.

regarding the value, well place 2 identical cars next to each other but one with swirls and one properly detailed, it will affect value and how they sell.

i treat all my cars as an investment. we are all here because we take pride in them and know that keeping them well detailed and maintained means better re sale value. 
Yes the car on paper is just a 12 year old BMW with 170,000 miles but its in better shape and better presented than most 5 year old cars with 70,000 miles in their showroom lol

I even debated taking it to BMW for its annual oil change and inspection just to maintain the full BMW SH it had when i bought it, but to be honest a genuine BMW oil filter and correct castrol oil invoiced as part of the history and a service stamp from my mechanic will suffice especially as i do an oil change every 6000 miles

anyway, lesson learnt



Kimo73 said:


> I'm not saying you're not an enthusiast
> 
> Over the past 12 months won't cut the mustard with them
> 
> ...


lol i know all about show cars, I've been called all sorts when I've judged cars at shows my self for nit picking lol


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## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

You might get lucky with a private buyer who would pay maybe a very slight premium for the detailed car. But for a 12 year old car having covered that sort of miles, most folk buying that would be more interesting in how long the MOT has left and if it had any advisories last time round.

Certainly a dealer wouldn't give a toss.


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## kos (Jun 19, 2008)

rf860 said:


> You might get lucky with a private buyer who would pay maybe a very slight premium for the detailed car. But for a 12 year old car having covered that sort of miles, most folk buying that would be more interesting in how long the MOT has left and if it had any advisories last time round.
> 
> Certainly a dealer wouldn't give a toss.


agreed

but in the wonderful world of us BMW fanatics, an e46 330i sport touring with the spec this car has, being a "BMW individual" car with lots of nice Racing Dynamics parts make it a some what sought after turd worth about 4 bags lol

Its not your typical e46 on 4 nankangs, with rust front wings, ****ed ball joints and when you ask about the AC not working you'd be told it just needs a "re gas" :lol:

BTW, its got over 11 months MOT and had no advisories and 4 new eagle F1's and matching 17" RD winter wheels with new Goodyear Ultra grips


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## percymon (Jun 27, 2007)

Well as a group of folks who care about their cars its never nice to see your car return worse than an hour before. I stopped dealers washing my car when i saw my then local dealer (BMW at the time, 1998 ish) putting chamois leathers over the top of a brick wall to dry out between uses.

As to your case, I don't think you have a cat in hells chance of anything..

1. you have no proof whatsoever that the car wasn't like that when you dropped it off -you could have had it washed daily by a cheap handwash place, or Sainsburys car park monkeys for the previous 3, 4 or 20 months; its your word against theirs. I'm not suggesting you did, but you have no proof, its purely your impression of how your car was when it arrived versus how they returned it to you.
2. the fact they felt the car needed a wash suggests it wasn't gleaming when you handed it to them, the perfect(or not condition) of the paintwork would not necessarily be evident at that stage. If you arrived with a freshly cleaned car they possibly wouldn't have bothered.
3. YOU signed the paperwork, allowing them to handle, work on and wash the vehicle
4. 99% of their customers would be happy with the wash, saves them an hour at home or a fiver going to the car wash
5. The fact the service manager got to the stage of threatening to call the police suggests it wasn't a calm discussion, or there was no resolution they were able to provide that you were happy with.

I absolutely do sympathise with your case, I'm just stating facts as I understand them. 

What do you want them to do about it ?

They have offered to polish it/buff it ? - if you're not happy with that then what do you want them to do ? 

> They won't repaint it.
> They won't pay £300 for you to get it corrected elsewhere (when they can pay their own contractors £30 to achieve what they deem (and customers accept) as an suitable finish.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

When I put my car into my BMW dealer the paperwork has two boxes at the top for hoovering and washing. I've asked them not to wash the car each time, they've crossed the box and it hasn't been washed. 

Dealers don't want to wash cars as it costs them time and money. They are happy to avoid doing the work if you don't want it. Maybe it only takes 10 minutes to wash a car, but BMW dealers charge in excess of £100 per hour labour. Avoiding washing numerous cars per day is a big saving. 

The issues I see here and like above, your pictures from 20 months ago are irrelevant to now. There is no way the car was swirl or mark free after nearly 2 years. You can't prove how it was prior to going in. 

It does seem like a massive amount of damage for just one wash. Dealers are much better than they used to be and you don't often see cars that have been sat of the forecourt for months, and washed countless times, look as bad as that. 

Something has gone wrong somewhere. 

Not saying it is the case here, but lots of people don't find marks or see anything until they go looking for it. They don't see dents, scratches or heavy swirls as they aren't paying much attention. Once they have a reason to look after getting the car back from a dealer, they look and find things they have never noticed before and blame the dealer. I bet many marks had happened before the dealer got near the car. I think there is also more people trying it on these days, I've seen it first hand. 

It is a bit like whiplash claims. Nobody would dare make one years ago. However when you hear of more people being successful, they now also feel comfortable to claim. 

I've seen a few dealers that now spend time to video record the car prior to doing work to cover themselves. 

The story had come up on various car sites in recent months. "My car was completely immaculate before the dealer got it". It just seems to be the one day it was plastered in thick salt was the day the dealer had it and felt the car required a wash. Or the car was spotless when the dealer had it and still washed it for some unknown reason. 

I'm not saying it is the case here, but I feel too many people really do make far more of issues to make something out of nothing. The issue is the dealers will find it harder to entertain the genuine gripes when so many false ones are now being made.


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## dillinja999 (Aug 26, 2013)

this is why i dont go to main dealers, they are just twats in a shirt and tie


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

I'm keen to hear what your car was wearing before it went in.

If it gets meticulously lathered with a filler heavy glaze every Sunday then all they've done is remove all your glaze and showed you what your paint really looks like :buffer:

It does look like an awful lot of damage for just one wash. I know plenty people who think their car is blemish free but in reality it's a swirly miss once the SRP is removed. :thumb:


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## kos (Jun 19, 2008)

thank you for the replies 

I agree that I don't have much chance, it's just gutting to see the damage they have done. Yes the car was dirty, 2 weeks worth of dirt. As I said before, I will not wash my car unless I have the time to do it properly 

What I was looking from them would be an apology, to be fair that would do me and if they decided to do more then it's a bonus. 

Regarding the damage, there are members on here (well known members/traders) who know what I'm like with my car, my detailing and correction abilities. 

It wasn't loaded up with fillers at all. They last time I detailed the car it had a single stage pass with menzerna SF4000 followed by 2 layers of 467


Kerr, I agree that some people will complain for the hello of it. It did cross my mind to just walk away however they have seriously inconvenienced me so why should I put up with it ?

What's good enough for 95% of their customers is not good enough for the remaining 5% nor should we have to put up with a sub standard service 

Anyway, it's done. Best I can do is contact BMW GB and express my concerns to them and leave them some reviews on line and never go back. I'll subtley give them a less than glowing mention in a future issue of the BMW car clubs magazine too. 

Once again thank you for the replies 

I'll post up another thread when get round to sorting it out


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## st200ol (Apr 27, 2012)

If that's the real number plate, then I wouldn't dare to drive around in it myself, it will give perhaps the wrong impression, to both other drivers and dealers.

That was my thought when I first saw it


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

I might be wrong here but...

Is this algae around the indicator..?









Faded grey plastics..?









..or is it just a trick of the light?


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

Nanoman said:


> I might be wrong here but...
> 
> Is this algae around the indicator..?
> 
> ...


They done that at the dealership too


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## st200ol (Apr 27, 2012)

Kimo73 said:


> They done that at the dealership too


Are you implying the OP is making it up? Remember he has a shotgun.


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

I read this first yesterday, gave it a bit of thought and I've come to the
conclusion the OP has no leg to stand on. He joined DW nearly seven years
ago! How many threads have there been about this sort of result in that time?

Not only that, apparently he _knew_ what BMW policy was _before_ taking
the car in... dirty. What other outcome could there be? The more I read about
this as the thread continues, the less sympathy I can find. 

The idea that "I'm fastidious about how my cars are washed" is some kind of
reasonable justification for not taking it in clean is nonsense. How was the
dealer to know that? Even I, with disabled hands and feet, can muster a quick
technique for getting my car clean ahead of a dealer visit.

It's time to acknowledge that there were a few mistakes made that could very
easily have been avoided!

Regards,
Steve


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## Franzpan (Mar 2, 2009)

What do you expect tbh? I'd just get on with life and sort it yourself.

Its hardly damage, its only swirls


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## stumpy90 (May 13, 2014)

Nanoman..... I think there's more proof in the pictures to suggest the OP is telling the truth tbh.


Either way i'd be pretty angry myself but I agree that steps could have been taken to avoid it. Lesson learnt IMO and the best thing to do is vote with your feet and if you're part of a BMW forum etc, warn other people of it


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

st200ol said:


> Are you implying the OP is making it up? Remember he has a shotgun.


Not implying anything

I have 3 bruv


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Franzpan said:


> Its hardly damage, its only swirls


And that is the whole crux of this thread, to 99.9 % of people and in the eyes of the law, swirls do not represent damage.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

stumpy90 said:


> Nanoman..... I think there's more proof in the pictures to suggest the OP is telling the truth tbh.
> 
> Either way i'd be pretty angry myself but I agree that steps could have been taken to avoid it. Lesson learnt IMO and the best thing to do is vote with your feet and if you're part of a BMW forum etc, warn other people of it


I'm not implying anything or doubting. Just asking a couple of questions.

I went to look back at the pics because I thought it was a surprising amount of damage for one wash. I was wondering if it had been through an automatic car wash or something then I noticed the plastics and apparent algae. I just thought it was strange to see on a car that was, according to the OP's description, probably one of the shiniest, most spotless 12 year old cars on the road. I'm sure it's just a trick of the light which is why I asked.

At the end of the day if the OP sends those pics to BMW it might not help his case if they see the same trick of the light I see.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

Not much to add to the above...

No proof of damage, and the paper work you signed contractually obliged them to wash it....you could ONLY take action against them if they failed to wash the car!

Lesson learned and all that, after 20 months it's about time to break out the detailing gear on the car anyway.


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## jay_bmw (Jan 28, 2010)

I think most people are missing the point, regardless of the swirls, which IMO are minor, the attitude of the staff there is quite appauling.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

jay_bmw said:


> I think most people are missing the point, regardless of the swirls, which IMO are minor, the attitude of the staff there is quite appauling.


There's two sides to every story. I've had major issues in Audi and Mercedes garages with terrible service. Both were resolved amicably with no raised voices, anger or threats. Saying that I had the police called on me and was told to go f**k myself by the owner of a local bathroom showroom. :doublesho


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## stumpy90 (May 13, 2014)

Nanoman said:


> There's two sides to every story. I've had major issues in Audi and Mercedes garages with terrible service. Both were resolved amicably with no raised voices, anger or threats. Saying that I had the police called on me and was told to go f**k myself by the owner of a local bathroom showroom.


I hope you didn't do what i'm thinking you might have done!? :lol:

Not sure I agree with the above comment though, I fail to see how they're minor swirls. That's about as bad as you could physically get it after only one quick wash.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

jay_bmw said:


> I think most people are missing the point, regardless of the swirls, which IMO are minor, the attitude of the staff there is quite appauling.


I see your point.....but if they say sorry and admit they were wrong it leaves them open to pay for correction.

The dealer told the OP what they were going to do, he agreed, then they did it!

Did the OP say not to wash it?
Did the OP say he's in the 1% of car owners and fastidious about his wash technique?
Did the OP explain he regards swirls, which are a natural occurrence during washing, as damage?

They have nothing to say sorry for......if they admit they were wrong the OP might ask them to ship the car to Paul Dalton and pay for a correction worth 3 times the value of the car etc.

If he said "DO NOT WASH MY CAR" and they acted like this it would be totally different and unacceptable.


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## ALLR_155528 (May 20, 2014)

We all no what dealerships can be like.
You did sign the paperwork which stated it would be washed.
If you have done a full detail in 20months then you have done well and its was probably getting ready for one anyway.


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## kos (Jun 19, 2008)

Lowiepete said:


> I read this first yesterday, gave it a bit of thought and I've come to the
> conclusion the OP has no leg to stand on. He joined DW nearly seven years
> ago! How many threads have there been about this sort of result in that time?
> 
> ...


not to sure how to take this post.....

yes i have been a member on here for a long time, yes i have seen other threads similar to this but it is always good to share experiences because they do differ

because i am fussy about how my car gets cleaned and how i maintain it doesn't mean it should be clean all the time. there is certainly no reason for me to wash it prior to any dealer visit.

if you can muster a quick wash then good for you. i wasn't going to rush a wash in this cold weather and i certainly did not have time in the days prior. 
I'd rather leave a car dirty than poorly wash it.

i do acknowledge that an oversight on my part has lead to this, but i didn't expect a complimentary "service wash" when the car was going in for a recall for an airbag fault.

swirls or not it wasn't even "clean" when it was returned to me.



percymon said:


> Well as a group of folks who care about their cars its never nice to see your car return worse than an hour before. I stopped dealers washing my car when i saw my then local dealer (BMW at the time, 1998 ish) putting chamois leathers over the top of a brick wall to dry out between uses.
> 
> As to your case, I don't think you have a cat in hells chance of anything..
> 
> ...


it was very calm on my part, no raised voices. just asked for them to give me options to a resolution. they did at one stage offer to valet the car, initially i was reluctant but then agreed on the provision they give me a courtesy car. The offer made by the body shop assistant manager which was retracted by the service manager as it would come out of his departments pocket. The Service manager's attitude was poor hence i didn't move from his office, then he threatened to call the police. my response was that if he wanted to call the police then he should and i said i'll move my car off the premised and block their entrance.Not a good move on my part but if he's going to be dismissive, threatening, accuse me of having an agenda, not being a regular at his dealer then i could also play that game. but i didn't for reason stated earlier

he had options, he declined to make any attempt to resolve the issue.



st200ol said:


> If that's the real number plate, then I wouldn't dare to drive around in it myself, it will give perhaps the wrong impression, to both other drivers and dealers.
> 
> That was my thought when I first saw it


it is real, make of it what you want, maybe my name is Clint 



Nanoman said:


> I might be wrong here but...
> 
> Is this algae around the indicator..?
> 
> ...


scuttle cover is a touch faded, its been 20 months since the C4 was applied

algae, i don't think so. I just checked to be sure



Kimo73 said:


> They done that at the dealership too


Yep, and they also did doughnuts, de catted my exhaust and fitted an electric turbo and put dog **** on the leather

they called it a motorsport conversion



Franzpan said:


> What do you expect tbh? I'd just get on with life and sort it yourself.
> 
> Its hardly damage, its only swirls


really, how many times can you correct paint ?

its not you who's going to have spend time correcting it.

i'm not expecting sympathy but that really is poor poor reply.



stumpy90 said:


> Nanoman..... I think there's more proof in the pictures to suggest the OP is telling the truth tbh.
> 
> Either way i'd be pretty angry myself but I agree that steps could have been taken to avoid it. Lesson learnt IMO and the best thing to do is vote with your feet and if you're part of a BMW forum etc, warn other people of it


thank you

an article on this is being drafted for the club magazine. feedback and reviews of the dealer service and attitude are also being submitted via social media.

lots of other negative comments have been made about this dealer in the past, but customers, enthusiast and staff.

I feel the level of service is poor as its clearly driven from the top of the chain. MD to his department managers on to front line staff and ends up with disgruntled customers.



S63 said:


> And that is the whole crux of this thread, to 99.9 % of people and in the eyes of the law, swirls do not represent damage.


agreed.

i still can not believe that a dealer who deals in prestige/high end cars finds this level of service and presentation acceptable



Nanoman said:


> I'm not implying anything or doubting. Just asking a couple of questions.
> 
> I went to look back at the pics because I thought it was a surprising amount of damage for one wash. I* was wondering if it had been through an automatic car wash or something* then I noticed the plastics and apparent algae. I just thought it was strange to see on a car that was, according to the OP's description, probably one of the shiniest, most spotless 12 year old cars on the road. I'm sure it's just a trick of the light which is why I asked.
> 
> At the end of the day if the OP sends those pics to BMW it might not help his case if they see the same trick of the light I see.


A friend who has worked there has confirmed that they do use an automatic car wash as well as plebs to dry them off and wash by hand



Bero said:


> Not much to add to the above...
> 
> No proof of damage, and the paper work you signed contractually obliged them to wash it....you could ONLY take action against them if they failed to wash the car!
> 
> Lesson learned and all that, after 20 months it's about time to break out the detailing gear on the car anyway.


yes and no, they should in my opinion take more care if they are going to offer this service.

in regards to get the gear out and detail it again, yes great but every time you correct you compromise the lacquer. i'd have prefer to not have to do it again. not out of laziness but for the reason above

but, lesson learnt



jay_bmw said:


> I think most people are missing the point, regardless of the swirls, which IMO are minor, *the attitude of the staff there is quite appauling*.


this is my main issue.

to be dismissed as a new customer or someone he has not seen before int he service department and to be accused have an agenda is offensive.

i walk past the service and reception desk once a week. a fair few of the staff there know/recognise me. Parts team know my cars chassis number by heart.

If he took his time to look at the situation and pull up all my details he'd see that on one of my cars i have spend over £7000.00 in parts alone for a restoration (easy to trace as every invoice has my chassis number & adress)

if i add up what I've spent on parts for the other cars over the years its going to be in excess of £25,000.00 on my own cars and family members cars

thats not including used cars i purchased for export for friends & family, plus the trade account i have.

so, he had an opportunity to do something other than be dismissive

as i said earlier, a gesture of some free cleaning products would be something.

Thank you all again for your posts

while i may not agree with everything said, its good to see so much input regarding a situation which any of us would feel aggrieve about


----------



## scoobyboy1 (Aug 28, 2006)

You know the dealer is going to say its a 15 year old car there is no way its going to be scratch free after that many years on original paint, 
I know 90% of us on here can see the damaged caused and feel your pain as we all have 1 thing in common on here and that we all like scratch free un-marked paint, The dealer wont see it that way, and unfortunately I cant see them doing anything about it.

Hope you do get something, but I would go down there with a cool head, and tell them, you didn't like the way you was spoken too afterwards.


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## m500dpp (Feb 17, 2006)

Having revisited the photos,I really dont think the swirls are at all deep, they are exaggerated by the light and would either be easily hidden with a filler heavy polish or taken out with minimal effort with a DA and something mild like speedglaze.

There are two options:

- Continue to argue with the dealer who is never going to see the point and will just cause you a load of stress and grief. You cannot prove the condition of the paint before sufficiently so you are on a hiding to nothing anyway.
- Get the DA out and sort it, assuming the paint is as good as the OP maintains these swirls will not remove any measurable amount of paint and wont take more than a couple of hours to get it back probably better than it was. 

Quite frankly there are more important things to worry about in life, I'd just break out the DA!


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## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Kos - you have my sympathies mate. I'd be absolutely gutted, but i have to agree (and i know that you do too) that there really isn't likely to be much in the way of any kind of goodwill gesture from the dealership, especially given the reputation they appear to have. 

I was up at a main dealership last saturday with my uncle as he was looking at buying a new car. I was having a look around the forecourt when the salesman came back from a test run and drove my uncle's car straight into the automatic brush wash and let it do its business on the car.

My uncle was absolutely delighted that they had washed his car. 

I nearly cried. 

Good luck anyyway.

Cooks


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## robby71 (Jun 4, 2006)

I've had similar experiences with dealers so know how you feel

I had just bought an ED30 Golf GTi in red, 1st weekend i spent 9 hours with the DA getting rid of almost all the swirls, etc and the paint looked new - a week later the EML light came on so i took it to the VW dealer who had it for a few hours to replace a part. My dad went to pick it up as i was at work - when i saw it in the garage at home under the lights my heart sank as it looked almost the same as yours on every panel.
I didn't think they'd wash it unless it was having a service - i spent several hours the following weekend redoing the correction - lesson learnt

On another occasion i bought a nearly new DS3 - i found resprayed panels which when i bought the car unseen over the net i said i'd buy it if it was genuine/ origional/ no paint repairs - after a few arguments with the dealer i then posted a review of the dealership on the forums stating just the truth (no need to make things up) - the next day i got a call from the MD saying he'd been told about the post and if i removed it he would give me a full refund on the car - result, they don't want bad publicity


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## JwilliamsM (Dec 20, 2011)

I would be livid mate. 

When mine went in for its subframe replacement i put 3 laminated pieces of a4 paper with the DO NOT WASH sign I downloaded from someone on here in 3 of my windows. 
I also told every member of staff i dealt with not to wash it. 
They said to me it will be covered in dust, i insantly replied I couldnt care if it's covered in dog sh1t i do not want it washed AT ALL. I said they could Hoover it though. 

Thankfully they didn't wash it and I was happy as the subframe was done under a goodwill warranty. 
Although I did have 2 or 3 strange marks on the paint I think was caused something/someone/a glove leaning or resting on the car. Came off with a very light polish so wasn't bothered. 

Im just in the habit now if any of our cars go into a dealer i make sure they do not wash it


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## kos (Jun 19, 2008)

robby71 said:


> I've had similar experiences with dealers so know how you feel
> 
> I had just bought an ED30 Golf GTi in red, 1st weekend i spent 9 hours with the DA getting rid of almost all the swirls, etc and the paint looked new - a week later the EML light came on so i took it to the VW dealer who had it for a few hours to replace a part. My dad went to pick it up as i was at work - when i saw it in the garage at home under the lights my heart sank as it looked almost the same as yours on every panel.
> I didn't think they'd wash it unless it was having a service - i spent several hours the following weekend redoing the correction - lesson learnt
> ...


this MD called me and said point blank he didn't care and he was not going to do anything

as i said review are going on line, on to the forums and in the BMW CC magazine

Email sent to GB as well. i do not think they will be impressed as they are bank rolling this dealership if what i heard is correct. but i doubt i'll get anywhere, short of me pursuing it throughout he small claims court i don't think i'll get anything from any one nor any form of good will gesture from anyone (GB or Dealer)

would be interesting to see how the courts see it, lone peasant like me taking on a huge business franchise worth millions. if the magistrate is a car person i'm in with a chance lol


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

You do have my sympathy....but if there is anyone to be livid with it can only be your self....I've been there, done that, and feel your pain. The exact same thing nearly happened to me today, dropped my car off to have a new key programmed....a minute later the service guy came back and said 'do you want us to give it a wash'...it never crossed my mind they would wash it for this 5 minute job (there was no paperwork to sign).

But, on a scale of 1 to 10 your chance in the courts is absolutly zero.

Maybe, in your opinion they should take more care washing...but then you should have clarified the exact service offered in the 'wash the car' part before signing the paperwork.


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## Welshquattro1 (Dec 6, 2013)

I feel for you as I had the same happen to my Audi. I dont think you stand a chance of getting anything from them but I would complain to BMW UK about the way you have been treated.


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## Berylburton (Sep 14, 2013)

kos said:


> this MD called me and said point blank he didn't care and he was not going to do anything
> 
> as i said review are going on line, on to the forums and in the BMW CC magazine
> 
> ...


Small claims court follow the law. As much as we have sympathy with you, don't waste your time in the SCC. You have written to the correct parties. Best thing to do is find a different dealership.

I did that with the Mini dealership near me, who did a similar thing. I changed dealers and am happy with them. The service mgr is a detailer type which obviously makes a difference


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## percymon (Jun 27, 2007)

2 weeks worth of dirt + auto car wash (or cheap handwash valet) = grinding paste = swirls.

Lesson learnt.

Move on.


You only have to look at every new car in the showroom to see swirls in the paint - thats before they have seen any road action and dirty sponges.


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## VW Golf-Fan (Aug 3, 2010)

Whenever my car goes into the dealers for a service, I always make a point of telling the staff not to wash my car and also place a sign on my dashboard stating this.

I think I have earned a reputation for myself there as now they know how 'picky' I am about my car & I even go round the car taking photos of my car parked there before I leave it in their care or sign any paperwork.

I always get them to write on the job card "please do not wash" and to date this has always been effective.

I think in your case OP, you should get it into your head that dealers will always wash/hoover your car regardless of what type of work is carried out whilst in their care. So always make a point of getting it in writing BEFORE you sign anything stating that you don't want it washed, that way IF they wash it you will have a strong & valid case for complaining.


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

Just goes to show what happens when people read the small print AFTER the event.
If you had taken the time to read it BEFORE they started work you would have seen the " we wash/damage" your car clause and had it removed.
Time to Put up and shut up really. Time to break out the machines and do it again.


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## AllenF (Aug 20, 2012)

percymon said:


> You only have to look at every new car in the showroom to see swirls in the paint - thats before they have seen any road action and dirty sponges.


Not strictly true. There are a FEW dealers out there that still have in house trained guys that know what they are doing rather than sub it out to a cheapo company that turns more staff than mcdonalds.
But we are talking the more upmarket end of the scale. But even with the independant dealers SOME have in house.


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## ffrs1444 (Jun 7, 2008)

Pretty shaw clean and shinny sell them signs you put out on the rear view mirror that say ( Do Not Clean ) in my side door I have a laminated a sign saying do not clean/wash when I go to the garage it sticks on the dash


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## Kimo (Jun 7, 2013)

With how uptight, aggressive and uncalm you are being here, and the fact the police were threatened at the dealers, I'm finding it really hard to see that the discussion was in fact as calm as first made out ...

Now get the polosher out and get on with it, as I said before, after 2 years it's about time anyway


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

kos said:


> would be interesting to see how the courts see it, lone peasant like me taking on a huge business franchise worth millions.* if the magistrate is a car person *i'm in with a chance lol


think more Victor Meldrew than Jeremy Clarkson.


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Kimo73 said:


> With how uptight, aggressive and uncalm you are being here, and the fact the police were threatened at the dealers, I'm finding it really hard to see that the discussion was in fact as calm as first made out ...
> 
> Now get the polosher out and get on with it, as I said before, after 2 years it's about time anyway


To be fair I can't say I think the OP has been either of those three things. He took my questions fine as far ass I can see. Many on here would have spat the dummy.



S63 said:


> think more Victor Meldrew than Jeremy Clarkson.


Yip. They'd probably be very likely to be ****ed of at you wasting their time and laugh it out of court, possibly awarding damages/expenses to the dealer.


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## AndyA4TDI (May 7, 2012)

Shouldn't have happened, but it has, nothing a half decent detailer can't sort out.

There are bigger battles and more important things to argue about in life than this.

Most people wouldn't notice or care, we do, but we can fix these issues, so crack out the gear.


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## Rollini (Mar 23, 2012)

Lol I'm not surprised that is how they handed it back to you. 

Would love to know which garage it was at. (Haven't read the full thread)

But I've first hand experience with now the "valeters" and bodyshop staff wash cars at a main dealer. 

Do bare in mind they're 3rd party companies that do all the washing. 

And that the dealership will be part of a group , ie Sytner, sratstone, coopers, pendragon etc


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## robby71 (Jun 4, 2006)

kos said:


> this MD called me and said point blank he didn't care and he was not going to do anything
> 
> as i said review are going on line, on to the forums and in the BMW CC magazine
> 
> ...


Keep us updated on the outcome
I think these days with more people taking pride in their cars the garages should ask beforehand if you want it washing and not take it for granted that everyone does. I know most company car drivers would say yes and probably most women but a lot of us enjoy cleaning our own cars - this is why we're on this forum and many others like it


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## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

robby71 said:


> I think these days with more people taking pride in their cars the garages should ask beforehand if you want it washing and not take it for granted that everyone does. I know most company car drivers would say yes and probably most women but a lot of us enjoy cleaning our own cars - this is why we're on this forum and many others like it


Sorry but that's a load of tosh. Where's the evidence that more people take pride in their cars nowadays? Roll back the clock a few decades and neighbours out on a Sunday morning washing their car was a common site, not so much nowadays, partly due to the fact they can get their car washed for a fiver or less whilst doing the weekly shop. Leisure time becomes increasingly more precious which certainly doesn't involve car washing for the majority of car owners.

I think of the dealership I work in as a fairly good indicator as to what the average customer does and doesn't want, we get a couple of complaints a month, stating we forgot to wash the car.


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## robby71 (Jun 4, 2006)

The evidence is shown by the time taken and the amount of money spent on products - the old days people went out with a bucket and sponge. If the car was clean they were happy - swirls, etc meant nothing where these days we strive for perfection hence the amount of professional detailers

I started driving in the 80s and fall into that era of bucket and sponge, bottle of mer and t-cut for major scratches


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## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

robby71 said:


> The evidence is shown by the time taken and the amount of money spent on products - the old days people went out with a bucket and sponge. If the car was clean they were happy - swirls, etc meant nothing where these days we strive for perfection hence the amount of professional detailers
> 
> I started driving in the 80s and fall into that era of bucket and sponge, bottle of mer and t-cut for major scratches


Doesn't everyone except us weirdos still use the bucket and sponge method?


----------



## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

S63 said:


> Sorry but that's a load of tosh. Where's the evidence that more people take pride in their cars nowadays? Roll back the clock a few decades and neighbours out on a Sunday morning washing their car was a common site, not so much nowadays, partly due to the fact they can get their car washed for a fiver or less whilst doing the weekly shop. Leisure time becomes increasingly more precious which certainly doesn't involve car washing for the majority of car owners.
> 
> I think of the dealership I work in as a fairly good indicator as to what the average customer does and doesn't want, we get a couple of complaints a month, stating we forgot to wash the car.


Look at the availability of car cleaning products these days. The choice used to be very small and very few shops stocked much at all.

Now every car factor place I can think of keeps a reasonable range of products. Some shops now keep a good range from various brands. You can even get products from your local garden centre and local supermarket.

Also look at the availability online. The choice in now endless for products and every man and his dog has a wax on the market.

If more people weren't taking care of their cars, there would be no need for the vast increase in supply.

I think far more people are now concerned about their cars. Still loads with little interest, but there certainly is more people who do care.


----------



## S63 (Jan 5, 2007)

Kerr said:


> Look at the availability of car cleaning products these days. The choice used to be very small and very few shops stocked much at all.
> 
> Now every car factor place I can think of keeps a reasonable range of products. Some shops now keep a good range from various brands. You can even get products from your local garden centre and local supermarket.
> 
> ...


and the total number of cars on UK roads is rising at an alarming rate, approx 30 million at this moment in time, I'd expect the car cleaning products market to grow but not proportionately.


----------



## rf860 (Jul 24, 2011)

I don't think interest in car cleaning is growing at all. Just more people (companies) have realised how cheap products are to make and how much mark up they can get on them.

Out of all the people I know, only about 5 of them actually clean their own cars.

Most people look at you as if you've got horns coming out your head if you tell them you waxed your car at the weekend.


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## Kerr (Mar 27, 2012)

S63 said:


> and the total number of cars on UK roads is rising at an alarming rate, approx 30 million at this moment in time, I'd expect the car cleaning products market to grow but not proportionately.


Not so many years ago you would struggle to buy anything other than Turtle Wax local to me. Now I can pick up countless brands and a massive amount of different products too.

Reading what RAC figures say, the number of cars has increased by 2-2.5% most years in recent years. A few years before there during the recession there was very little change.

So even if there had been a 20% increase in cars in 10 years, I'd say the increase of car cleaning stuff would be significantly more. Halfords used to do a little corner, now they've got an aisle about 25 yards long filled with products both sides and at the ends, plus spread across the shop.

It's hard to guess, but there is a 1/5th more cars, but at least 20x more car cleaning products available locally.

As you say there is far more cars on the road than in the past.

If only 5% of people maintained their cars to a good standard, simply due to proportion of cars there is more people taking care of their cars. So more people do look after their cars.

I see far more care for cars these days than I have in the past. People like the image a car gives them and more people do keep them better. Hence one of the reasons people are now willing to spend/finance far more on a car.


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## kos (Jun 19, 2008)

Nanoman said:


> Doesn't everyone except us weirdos still use the bucket and sponge method?


my neighbour suggest i use a brush attachment on my karcher :doublesho

my friends call me a peado due to my OCD with my cars



robby71 said:


> Keep us updated on the outcome
> I think these days with more people taking pride in their cars the garages should ask beforehand if you want it washing and not take it for granted that everyone does. I know most company car drivers would say yes and probably most women but a lot of us enjoy cleaning our own cars - this is why we're on this forum and many others like it


i Will, once they reply to my email i'll up date

and i agree, forums are here for sharing information. with pretty much all e46'd going in for this recall its foot to give people a heads up with the barbaric wash they may get



Rollini said:


> Lol I'm not surprised that is how they handed it back to you.
> 
> Would love to know which garage it was at. (Haven't read the full thread)
> 
> ...


Berry Chiswick but to be fair, most dealers have the same poor wash system in place with contractors and machines

its more the way i was spoken to that really ****ed me off



Kimo73 said:


> With how uptight, aggressive and uncalm you are being here, and the fact the police were threatened at the dealers, I'm finding it really hard to see that the discussion was in fact as calm as first made out ...
> 
> Now get the polosher out and get on with it, as I said before, after 2 years it's about time anyway


really ?

believe what you want mate :thumb:



Nanoman said:


> To be fair I can't say I think the OP has been either of those three things. He took my questions fine as far ass I can see. Many on here would have spat the dummy.


lol :thumb:



jayz_son said:


> I would be livid mate.
> 
> When mine went in for its subframe replacement i put 3 laminated pieces of a4 paper with the DO NOT WASH sign I downloaded from someone on here in 3 of my windows.
> I also told every member of staff i dealt with not to wash it.
> ...


i was pretty livid, I've calmed down now though

lesson learnt thats for sure. Ive put this up on a few BMW forums as a lot of e46's will be heading to dealers soon. They will all get confused when people say "Don't Wash My Car" lol



Cookies said:


> Kos - you have my sympathies mate. I'd be absolutely gutted, but i have to agree (and i know that you do too) that there really isn't likely to be much in the way of any kind of goodwill gesture from the dealership, especially given the reputation they appear to have.
> 
> I was up at a main dealership last saturday with my uncle as he was looking at buying a new car. I was having a look around the forecourt when the salesman came back from a test run and drove my uncle's car straight into the automatic brush wash and let it do its business on the car.
> 
> ...


Cheers Cooks

i know there is not much i can do, but i will be interesting to see what response my email gets. I won't public what i have written until i get a reply (if i get one)



scoobyboy1 said:


> You know the dealer is going to say its a 15 year old car there is no way its going to be scratch free after that many years on original paint,
> I know 90% of us on here can see the damaged caused and feel your pain as we all have 1 thing in common on here and that we all like scratch free un-marked paint, The dealer wont see it that way, and unfortunately I cant see them doing anything about it.
> 
> Hope you do get something, but I would go down there with a cool head, and tell them, you didn't like the way you was spoken too afterwards.


thank you, I've put together a rather lengthy email.

lets see what happens.



m500dpp said:


> Having revisited the photos,I* really dont think the swirls are at all deep*, they are exaggerated by the light and would either be easily hidden with a filler heavy polish or taken out with minimal effort with a DA and something mild like speedglaze.
> 
> There are two options:
> 
> ...


I'm not arguing with the dealer, I'm way past that. I will sort it my self when i have a chance over the next few weeks

regarding the severity of them. Alex over at elite care care inspected it. In his professional opinion they "****ed it" lol

anyway, thank you all again for reading this

i will up date once i have reply, thats if i get one

Kos


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## Welshquattro1 (Dec 6, 2013)

Will be interesting to seen the response you get to Ur email like you say! I learnt the same lesson the hard way. I wish you luck and hope you get the car back to what it was before. I do like the older BMW and your car in that colour is a good comb.


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## Rollini (Mar 23, 2012)

kos said:


> Berry Chiswick but to be fair, most dealers have the same poor wash system in place with contractors and machines
> 
> its more the way i was spoken to that really ****ed me off


Yeah I'm quite amazed they would even think about talking to you that way. 
A garage should be doing everything in their power to make you happy and resolve and problem that occurs.

Wouldn't be going back there again if I were you. See if you can email someone higher than the dp at that dealer. There must be someone at their head office etc. 
just isn't acceptable.


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## EliteCarCare (Aug 25, 2006)

kos said:


> I'm not arguing with the dealer, I'm way past that. I will sort it my self when i have a chance over the next few weeks
> 
> regarding the severity of them. Alex over at elite care care inspected it. In his professional opinion they "****ed it" lol
> 
> ...


I know Kos well as he's a good customer and friend and is always in buying products for his cars and I can vouch for the condition of the car in general, he won't wash it unless he has time to do it properly. It's a daily driver and has the usual daily driver battle scars but he does take good care of it.

After inspection with halogens and a sun gun we could see the usual long sweeping marks (made by a gritty sponge or mitt) all over the car which I've seen many times before from a dealer wash. The annoying thing about it was that they didn't even clean it properly, the sills were still dirty and there was TFR residue everywhere. They should've just left it as it was.

Anyway, it's a lesson learnt but they could have dealt with it in a more professional manner considering how much money Kos has spent in their parts dept over the years.


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## Bero (Mar 9, 2008)

robby71 said:


> Keep us updated on the outcome
> I think these days with more people taking pride in their cars the garages should ask beforehand if you want it washing and not take it for granted that everyone does. I know most company car drivers would say yes and probably most women but a lot of us enjoy cleaning our own cars - this is why we're on this forum and many others like it





Kerr said:


> Look at the availability of car cleaning products these days. The choice used to be very small and very few shops stocked much at all.
> 
> If more people weren't taking care of their cars, there would be no need for the vast increase in supply.


Don't mistake more products on shelves with more people taking pride in their car, and don't discount the huge increase in disposable income that has come over the years.

As noted, a few years ago you could not get much more than a polish and turtle wax to go along with shampoo and wheel cleaner. So someone who was into their car cleaning had 5...maybe 10 products. They were used and then replaced.

Someone who is into car cleaning in 2015 has easily 20-50 products and I'm sure that number is going up on a per-person basis. Coupled with normal products leading onto higher margin wax sales....which then justifies more and more shelf space. None of these factors mean more people are taking care of their car, just more sales, and higher margin sales to the 'cleaning types'.

I believe a lot less people today are interested in protecting their £50 a week run around........years ago people were protecting a family car they just paid 4months salary for!


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