# Winter Tyres transformed my BMW



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

I know that for most in the UK, snow is a rare occurrence in winter and even when it does snow, decent all-season tyres are more than up to the task... but I see snow very season on my daily commute - and over the past couple of days, even saw it near the East Coast of Scotland which is a much rarer occurrence...

I'm not out driving much just now - I do a childcare run and had one trip to the vet - but it was reassuring to be able to get about in the snow without issues... my current car is often laughed at in the snow, a rear wheel drive, automatic BMW... But currently wearing Pirelli Sottozero 3 winter tyres, it was getting me around with no issues and I was actually pleasantly surprised with how it handled the white stuff - including in a car park where it was pushing the snow deeper than its ground clearance and still able to pull away on an incline.











With summer tyres, I doubt it would have been the same! But also by the same token, perhaps BMWs are not the laughing stock in the snow that some make them out to be  ...

Today, -8C was the highest day time temp (much lower at night), leaving pack snow and ice and it was still no issues 







Being automatic, it was a case of put into Drive and let it creep if possible or if not, just the slightest sniff of throttle to get moving - then flick the paddle into 2nd asap and steadily build momentum and aim to keep momentum by planning miles ahead. But it got me out and got me home when I needed to go and get my wee one from childcare with no dramas.

Vet trip needed the Subaru, and of course, it's more capable in snow - ploughing through deep drifts (as it does year in year out for me on my daily commute across the moor to Aberfeldy at times of the day before the snow ploughs are out)... but even AWD, I will always run winters. 4 x 0 = 0, and it's all about the braking and handling as well as just getting moving.









Like I said, snow like this is rare for most people in the UK - but I would never be without my winter tyres on cars


----------



## RS3 (Mar 5, 2018)

People generally don't realise the difference with winter tyres which is night and day and although i'm against rules per-say, I think making people use them would be sensible.
I think people are put off because we rarely get much snow but they don't realise that winter tyres work better than summer tyres as soon as temps dip below +7degC.
A couple of weeks ago, when we had about 5 inches I had to get out of my old fwd Honda twice to help others in their cars - one of them was a BMW X3 AWD and it wouldn't go anywhere except sideways regardless of the drive mode:wall:.
I saw (I think it was a 5th Gear show) where they took 2 Kuga's up an indoor ski slope, 1 had AWD, the other FWD. On summer tyres neither cars got far but with Winters both cars pretty much got to the top of the slope showing that winter tyres are more useful in the snow than AWD.


----------



## Stoner (Jun 25, 2010)

Winter tyres are a huge benefit anywhere from October/November to March/April. My previous car would not move if there was a few mm of snow/ice. I bought spare set of wheels with winter tyres from eBay 2 years ago and it coped superbly.

I have since sold that car and we now have a Land Rover Discovery Sport and a Q7, both running all season tyres. Due the 4 wheel drive etc. both cope with most conditions in the South West but I will buy a spare set of winter wheels/tyres when I get my next rear wheel drive car. The difference they make is incredible :thumb:


----------



## Nick-ST (Mar 4, 2013)

Having seen many videos showing the benefits of winter tyres I can safely say I would definitely have them if I lived in a climate that required them. Living in East Anglia we very rarely get more than a dusting of snow. The current conditions are the worst I have seen in 10 years. I simply couldn't justify the additional costs as I would want to have a different set of rims so I could swap them myself.


----------



## grunty-motor (Aug 11, 2016)

I wouldn't even attempt to take my X3 out in those conditions (summer tyres).

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## percymon (Jun 27, 2007)

I've never quite got my head around why UK cars do not come on all season tyres - maybe not the higher powered/sporty models in a range where summer tyres are more optimal for fun in good weather. Given how nieve most drivers are to their tyres, having something that doesn't really suit 12 months use of a vehicle seems daft. I've run winters every year for 13 years now and the difference even on cold dry roads is impressive. 

Of course not everyone has the space, cash or inclination to run summers and winters


----------



## RS3 (Mar 5, 2018)

percymon said:


> I've never quite got my head around why UK cars do not come on all season tyres - maybe not the higher powered/sporty models in a range where summer tyres are more optimal for fun in good weather. Given how nieve most drivers are to their tyres, having something that doesn't really suit 12 months use of a vehicle seems daft. I've run winters every year for 13 years now and the difference even on cold dry roads is impressive.
> 
> Of course not everyone has the space, cash or inclination to run summers and winters


Ive been swapping my tyres each year for 7 or 8 years now and i'm still on the same sets of tyres (OK, I only do 3k to 6k per year) so I am inclined to believe that using winter tyres saves your summer tyres and therefore saves money.:thumb:


----------



## AnthonyUK (Jul 25, 2018)

percymon said:


> I've never quite got my head around why UK cars do not come on all season tyres..


Definitely agree. I have crossclimate+ on my Merc estate and have not noticed any difference over summer tyres when it is warm but when it is cold and wet they are a godsend.

I'm pretty far south so Winters would be a waste down here.


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

grunty-motor said:


> I wouldn't even attempt to take my X3 out in those conditions (summer tyres).
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


In fairness, if I hadn't needed to go and pick up my wee one from childcare, I'd have been staying in too... and vet vaccinations. I've always run winter tyres though, so that will make a big difference to being able to get out and about.


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

RS3 said:


> Ive been swapping my tyres each year for 7 or 8 years now and i'm still on the same sets of tyres (OK, I only do 3k to 6k per year) so I am inclined to believe that using winter tyres saves your summer tyres and therefore saves money.:thumb:


I'm in this boat too - been swapping for years, but on the Subaru I've been getting three winter seasons from a set, and three summers from the summer tyres so all in all, roughly the same outlay in tyres overall. The last set of Nokian winters I had did over 50k miles over three seasons.


----------



## Darlofan (Nov 24, 2010)

I'd say learning to drive correctly in snow would be better for the vast majority in this country rather than winter tyres.
Im in N Wales up in the hills and have never had any bother driving with my cheap ditch finders. However always see the idiots that think flooring the accelerator is the best way to get them out of snow. 

We see snow like that a few times each Winter but I don't think there's that many areas in the country that require Winter tyres permanently.


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Darlofan said:


> I'd say learning to drive correctly in snow would be better for the vast majority in this country rather than winter tyres.
> Im in N Wales up in the hills and have never had any bother driving with my cheap ditch finders. However always see the idiots that think flooring the accelerator is the best way to get them out of snow.
> 
> We see snow like that a few times each Winter but I don't think there's that many areas in the country that require Winter tyres permanently.


Having watched all the correct techniques being used with two wheel drive cars in the past couple of days that were running summer tyres and still just not being able to get around, I'd always choose the correct tyres for the job - I don't so skiing in flip flops.

They are not a silver bullet - obviously... you still need to know how to drive with them, but for me the added level of grip they provide in all conditions make them a no-brainer. My daily commute is over the moors in Highland Perthshire, so this type of snow is regular for me.

Interestingly, with winter tyres on, lateral grip for my BMW is better than my Subaru in the snow, and for braking the BMW is also just a bit more secure... obviously for traction, the Subaru is king over the bimmer - with its Geolandars, it'll fight through snow reasonably well, and with winters it powers up farm tracks through snow and deals with drifts over a foot deep with consummate ease


----------



## JoeyJoeJo (Jan 3, 2014)

Totally agree, if winter tyres weren't effective, BMW wouldn't have sold any rwd any cars anywhere that has anything colder than temperate winters.


----------



## kingswood (Jun 23, 2016)

Nick-ST said:


> Having seen many videos showing the benefits of winter tyres I can safely say I would definitely have them if I lived in a climate that required them. Living in East Anglia we very rarely get more than a dusting of snow. The current conditions are the worst I have seen in 10 years. I simply couldn't justify the additional costs as I would want to have a different set of rims so I could swap them myself.


like stifler in American pie.....dont ever break character again - this isn't mums net :lol:

everything can be justified!

altho my winters are still sat in the garage :wall: didn't get round to fitting them this winter.


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

JoeyJoeJo said:


> Totally agree, if winter tyres weren't effective, BMW wouldn't have sold any rwd any cars anywhere that has anything colder than temperate winters.


Very true... although whenever you open a news story about cars stranded in snow, it always seems to be BMWs :lol: (I'm guessing they are not running winter tyres  )


----------



## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

I run a '07 Honda CR-V AWD diesel as my daily

I have Dunlop all-season tyres on and just recently I've seen all sorts of cars tippy-toeing through the snow making sure they don't spin the wheels.

I have no such problem with the trusty Honda and its M+S tyres.

First time in the snow was early December and the roads were pretty bad, I actually left work early as it has been snowing a solid 7 hours and there was a good 4/5 inch of snow all over the car in the car park.

Going gingerly to start with, when there was no traffic about I thought I'd see how much throttle I could give it without things going awry.

I was amazed to learn I could basically accelerate almost as hard as I liked!
Great traction, cornering was pretty good, and predictable, the only part of the drive where you had to proceed with caution was braking (though my tyres are on around 4-5mm tread depth at moment, so they're hardly new)

On a 'normal' car I would have M+S tyres on all year round so I'm prepared for winter instead of having to put different tyres on.
Certainly wouldn't do that for the Porsche, but then again I put it away for winter anyway.

Great to hear DaveKG you're impressed with the full winters on the BMW.
Never had any doubt that the Subaru would be great :thumb:


----------



## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

I accidentally started using winters in around 2006 or 2007, when I bought a used passat that had them fitted. The car just went anywhere in snow, and I soon discovered the M+S markings on the sidewall. I've used winter tyres every winter season every year since. 

We live on a hill, and have over the past few years, been the only cars to get out onto the main road. 

At the minute, I have Pirelli Sottozero in my 3 series, Nokian wra4 on our A5, and Continental Winter contact on the focus. I'd say the Nokians are the best out of those three sets. Although in the past, I bought a set of Sunitrak very cheap, and they were absolutely brilliant in snow and ice. 

With regard to tyre wear, when you're using the winter tyres, you're not using the summer tyres. I fitted my first new set of summer tyres to my 3 series at 52k miles. 

When I change cars, I sell the wheels and winter tyres, which funds most of the cost of the winter set for the new car. Simple man maths at its best....

Cheers, and stay safe all

Cooks

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

All seasons on my GS450h and winter/summer rubber on the XC90. 

I’ll never use summer tyres in winter. Only all seasons or separate summer/winter rubber. 

The only problem is when you get rid of the car not everyone wants the extra set...

I’ve got a 16” Merc set from my ‘14 c class Bridgestone on Merc rims, a 19” set for a Lexus RX vredestein on Lexus rims and a 18” (might be 17” actually)set for jap crossover nexen on Kia OEM rims if anyone wants to make an offer!? 

I’m not sure if I’ve still got a sales sub or not but will get one if anyone is interested. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

James_R said:


> I run a '07 Honda CR-V AWD diesel as my daily
> 
> I have Dunlop all-season tyres on and just recently I've seen all sorts of cars tippy-toeing through the snow making sure they don't spin the wheels.
> 
> ...


The Subaru is a bit like this - you could literally stick in first and floor it and the awd system (basic 50/50 split with viscous centre diff to shift power front or back) just seems to sort it all out, and that's with the traction control switched off... driven sensibly, it just scythes through snow.

The BMW - well, no point flooring it or you'd just go round in a circle :lol: ... But I was really impressed with how it was capable of getting around on winters with proper care.. it'll never match the Subaru, but then it was never designed to  ... that said, coming downhill round a bend, the BMW actually had better lateral grip than the Subaru - wider track probably helped... for traction, the Outback will always have it beaten, but the G30 chassis gave a good account of itself for handling (of course, perhaps the Pirellis are better than the Dunlops - I'm not sure).


----------



## Rakti (Nov 11, 2019)

Darlofan said:


> I'd say learning to drive correctly in snow would be better for the vast majority in this country rather than winter tyres.
> Im in N Wales up in the hills and have never had any bother driving with my cheap ditch finders. However always see the idiots that think flooring the accelerator is the best way to get them out of snow.
> 
> We see snow like that a few times each Winter but I don't think there's that many areas in the country that require Winter tyres permanently.


Agree with this. Just drive at a speed appropriate to the conditions. Keep the revs down and allow the tyres to grip. I'm probably doing less than 1,000 miles a year at the moment. Is someone going to tell me winter or all-season tyres should be compulsory for me? Let's not forget that for many of us, snow and ice is only usually a factor for a few weeks each year.

I take on board that winter tyres are not just about snow and ice, and if you drive 10k miles per year, winter or all-season tyres can be justified, but many private motorists don't, and the number of those is likely to increase with more homeworking.

Of course, if you live somewhere like Dave does, it's a totally different situation.


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Rakti said:


> Agree with this. Just drive at a speed appropriate to the conditions. Keep the revs down and allow the tyres to grip. I'm probably doing less than 1,000 miles a year at the moment. Is someone going to tell me winter or all-season tyres should be compulsory for me? Let's not forget that for many of us, snow and ice is only usually a factor for a few weeks each year.
> 
> I take on board that winter tyres are not just about snow and ice, and if you drive 10k miles per year, winter or all-season tyres can be justified, but many private motorists don't, and the number of those is likely to increase with more homeworking.
> 
> Of course, if you live somewhere like Dave does, it's a totally different situation.


Trouble is, the keep the revs down technique doesn't work if the tyres just cannot get grip - I was watching this in real time for cars with summer tyres, especially wider low profile, and even on awd cars - a slight incline had them beat - but a rwd car with winter tyres had no issue. You can improve matters with second gear take offs (though not with the ZF8 'box in the 5), but I was watching experienced drivers using all the tricks and still getting nowhere, and much pushing and digging was required. The improvement to lateral grip from the winter tyres for me is worth it all on its own.

I don't think I would suggest they should be compulsory in the UK as they are in other countries, and your own personal circumstances will certainly be a factor in whether or not you would use winter tyres... obviously I do use them, have done for 10 years now, but I see them as an absolute necessity for me. But then several inches to a foot of snow is much more common - if your typical winter is an inch of snow tops, and mostly mild (>7C) days and you are low mileage then circumstances change. I do see the purchase as initial outlay for two sets of tyres, but I then only need to buy tyres half as often


----------



## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

I wonder if the people saying 'just drive to the conditions' will say the same thing when they're sliding down a hill with zero grip getting faster and faster. 

You can't overcome physics. Summer (normal) tyres simply lose grip long before winter tyres and no amount of gadgetry, electronics or old skool trickery can fix it. 

I've been in a Disco 3 with all season rubber and a 4x4 system that shat itself on an icy incline. Car stopped then proceeded to slide down the slope until it slid off the road into a snow bank. Same day, same slope in an auto C200 RWD with winters was fine. 

I towed 7+ tonnes up a slope in a Touareg with winter rubber when an old defender with proper off road mud tyres couldn't even get the thing to move. Albeit the 4x4 system on the Touareg shat it too but it kept going. 

The footage from Glasgow this week of expensive cars on summer rubber sliding down city streets and crashing due to having zero grip (expensive cars on silly rubber with big wheels) brings it right home. OK the drivers appeared to be sitting with their feet on the brakes losing the ability to at least steer but in some ways it was better to crash where they did, at the speed they did, than to retain steering but keep accelerating then hit something at speed. 

Also, driving to the conditions on summer (normal) rubber in winter doesn't help you when twatface going too fast out of control is coming towards you and you need to accelerate/brake/turn quickly - winter rubber will absolutely improve acceleration in that circumstance. 

As I said, when a new car comes into the household I remove summer rubber as winter approaches and either replace them with all seasons or have separate winters. It's no more expensive, sometimes quite the opposite, on the Touareg I saved an absolute fortune using a second set of wheels & tyres. 

As per DaveKG, winter rubber absolutely transforms a car, especially on snow. I'd rather have a 2 driven wheels with winters than a 4 driven wheels with summer rubber when it gets below about 4 degrees. 

People forget the average ambient temperature in the UK isn't far off the temperature where tyre manufacturers advise you stop using summer rubber. 

Car manufacturers supply the same rubber in the costa del sol as they do in the UK. It's nuts!


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

Nanoman said:


> I wonder if the people saying 'just drive to the conditions' will say the same thing when they're sliding down a hill with zero grip getting faster and faster.
> 
> You can't overcome physics. Summer (normal) tyres simply lose grip long before winter tyres and no amount of gadgetry, electronics or old skool trickery can fix it.
> 
> ...


People think I'm daft coming off the main road (A9) on my way to Aberfeldy and choosing instead to go over the moor and high route... honestly, I feel safer further away from the larger traffic flow where cars are doing silly speeds, on tyres not designed for the conditions. The high road is a few local drivers only, used to the conditions, and carrying equipment and driving cars set up to handle it... they know how to drive in the snow too, which is why they've fitted winter tyres


----------



## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

yes, agree with Winter tyres.
been using them since 2012, would not be without them.
in 2012 we were living in High Wycombe, a treacherous place when it snowed with the stack of steep hills everywhere, you really need them in places like that, no amount of careful use of throttle etc will get you anywhere on these hills, winters transformed my car at the time, enabling me to get wifey to her Chemo sessions without any hassle at all.
New car has a new set of alloys shod with Dunlop winter sports, have not had them on this year as working from home so no need to travel to High Wycombe every day, if we ever get back to the office, the winters will definitely be put on. cant see that happening though as we were told that most likely will be Autumn this year at the earliest.
the problem lies with the office air con, the fresh air intakes pas through the main units and due to covid they are recommened to be completely separate, oh, the windows also do not open, another no no!!.
stay safe all.

Kev


----------



## djberney (Oct 2, 2016)

I think one of the things that prevents people doing it is storage. I know one of the tyre places does offer to do it at a cost, but that is only if you are just swapping the tyres not if you have a spare set of rims. If you look at having two sets of rims, to protect your good ones in the winter as well as driving on winter tyres storage is more of an issue.
I compromised with my wife's previous car and had a spare set for the front as with it being fwd they did all the braking, driving and steering. Gave them away with the car but don't know if that is always the best option. Still haven't sorted any rims for the new car.


----------



## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I think whatever tyres I had, I would preferentially stay at home in such conditions or when the authorities are advising people to avoid non-essential travel. I've lived on Exmoor and in in rural areas for years and never bothered with winter tyres. The only time I've been held up by the weather is when there are vehicles stuck or on their roof or shoved in hedges and blocking the road, in which case not even a Challenger tank is going to get through.

The problem you will have is that whilst you might think you are safe driving around on the snow bulldozing snow with the front valance, is that many many on-coming drivers will not have such tyres and will be driving in conditions that are totally unfamiliar to them.

Winter tyres also have precisely zero utility when there is a lot of snow on the roads considering- you often can't see where the edge of the road lies. You can't tell what is ice and what is compacted snow and you can't tell if there is anything in the road buried under a thick layer of snow waiting to impale itself in your sump.

For people who really _must_ get to work because they are nuclear reactor operators or emergency neurosurgeons I would suggest you buy a Land cruiser, but for the rest of us, if you really do need to get to work, do what I tended to do and ring up the office, say I will be late and then wait for daylight and hordes of morons to run down the snow and give the authorities a chance to get the snow ploughs and gritters out. Normally by 10am the snow is mashed up by traffic anyway.

I don't think I would rate my attendance at work as highly as I would my own safety. If the police are advising people to avoid non-essential travel I hardly think being a bit late for work is that problematic. Make coffee, sit and watch the news. The first question is then, should you really be going out there?


----------



## RS3 (Mar 5, 2018)

The video I was trying to describe in my 1st entry:


----------



## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

RS3 said:


> The video I was trying to describe in my 1st entry:


yes, I have seen that video, very persuasive advert in showing the difference between summer and winter tyres, even if you have a 4x4.

this is Wycombe a week or so back, hatters lane hill..






looks like he is playing skittles, crank up the volume to get some cracking bangs where the driver hits all the cars, apparently he was uninsured and had no tax!!


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

ollienoclue said:


> I think whatever tyres I had, I would preferentially stay at home in such conditions or when the authorities are advising people to avoid non-essential travel. I've lived on Exmoor and in in rural areas for years and never bothered with winter tyres. The only time I've been held up by the weather is when there are vehicles stuck or on their roof or shoved in hedges and blocking the road, in which case not even a Challenger tank is going to get through.
> 
> The problem you will have is that whilst you might think you are safe driving around on the snow bulldozing snow with the front valance, is that many many on-coming drivers will not have such tyres and will be driving in conditions that are totally unfamiliar to them.
> 
> ...


Given I work an hour away from the school where I teach, I am left with a commute that takes place before the snow ploughs go out - I cannot see my employer being forgiving of me saying I cannot come in because of snow on a regular baseis... especially if it was my scheduled time in a hub school at the current time.

The moor and high routes I use for my daily commute are snow poled for a reason, and allow for progress in deep snow - required as on one side of the road there is a deep loch that you really don't want to be going into.

Having said that - for the snow I regularly find myself driving in, you are much better off going out before the snow has been smashed up and packed - grip from many types of fresh snow, especially light powder (heavy wet is an exception) is far better than packed snow, and while you may need to push a bit of snow, I'd favour that to reduced lateral grip on hard pack.

I certainly wouldn't describe winter tyres as have zero utility but we are all entitled to our opinions based on our own experiences... Winter tyres, if anything, show even greater advantage when the surface below loses predictability between fresh power, pack, ice, slush etc. Avoiding other motorists is one of the reasons local drivers favour the quieter and higher routes, but without winter tyres your chances of avoiding trouble are significantly reduced - so it will really depend on where you are coming from. I have worked in the school I currently work in for over 10 years, so every winter I will find myself dealing with heavy snowfall - I cannot just sit and take a day off or turn up late whenever it snows, I don't have that luxury, as I would be having many days off every season and I cannot think my employer would be too amused with that. And of course, there are times when an unexpected journey just needs to be made if at all possible for someone's personal circumstances. However, if you are in a position where you can avoid travel in the snow, then that is absolutely ideal 

This also ignores the fact that winter tyres are not just about snow, but are designed for all conditions where the temperatures drop below 7C - which for me, ambient temps of that are most regular running October - April.


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

RS3 said:


> The video I was trying to describe in my 1st entry:


This is a good video with a similar set of challenges and includes handling and braking too...


----------



## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

Dave KG said:


> This is a good video with a similar set of challenges and includes handling and braking too...
> 
> 4WD VS Winter Tyres - Do you need winter tyres if you have 4WD? - YouTube


That is an awesome display that shows the massive difference between the tyres and also 4x4 shod with summers, that deer could well have been a kid:doublesho
also explains why I was passing BMW x5's and landrovers up Cryers hill in Wycombe a few years back. summers do not work on 4x4's in the snow at all!


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

spursfan said:


> That is an awesome display that shows the massive difference between the tyres and also 4x4 shod with summers, that deer could well have been a kid:doublesho
> also explains why I was passing BMW x5's and landrovers up Cryers hill in Wycombe a few years back. summers do not work on 4x4's in the snow at all!


The deer reminds me of that Merc in the Wycombe video... Summers on AWD just leave you with 4 wheels spinning and in some cases that can be unpredictable as the awd system shifts power around trying desperately to get grip.

I wonder what a Toyota Aygo on winter tyres would be like, bet its brilliant!


----------



## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

ollienoclue said:


> I think whatever tyres I had, I would preferentially stay at home in such conditions or when the authorities are advising people to avoid non-essential travel. I've lived on Exmoor and in in rural areas for years and never bothered with winter tyres. The only time I've been held up by the weather is when there are vehicles stuck or on their roof or shoved in hedges and blocking the road, in which case not even a Challenger tank is going to get through.
> 
> The problem you will have is that whilst you might think you are safe driving around on the snow bulldozing snow with the front valance, is that many many on-coming drivers will not have such tyres and will be driving in conditions that are totally unfamiliar to them.
> 
> ...


Well done for missing the point entirely. If you'd read the posts you'd know a landcruiser with the wrong rubber is not as useful as pretty much any other car available with the right rubber. Tyre manufacturers state that summer tyres are not recommended for approx 6 month of the year in the UK.

Saying winter tyres are unnecessary in the UK is almost exactly the same thing as saying summer tyres are unnecessary in the UK. Many would argue (I'd agree) that summer tyres all year is a lot less safe/sensible/useful than winter tyres all year.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Here's another interesting vid on youtube. All very low speed stuff, but makes a comparison of winter vs all-season vs summer on an ice rink.






Cooks

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## ridders66 (May 24, 2019)

Don't get an X5 M Competition! We have one in our fleet, and have just put winter tyres on. Special order, £750.....EACH! So 3 grand to kit it out for a few weeks of icy weather!


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

ridders66 said:


> Don't get an X5 M Competition! We have one in our fleet, and have just put winter tyres on. Special order, £750.....EACH! So 3 grand to kit it out for a few weeks of icy weather!


I kept my 5 staggered ... but it's on the standard 662M 18" alloys, so no special order required. Fronts were 245/45/18 and I think around £150 each as I remember, the backs were 275/40/18 and £250 each. All Pirelli Sottozero 3 and star marked (bought from Camskill).

I imagine with the brakes, it won't have been easy to step the wheel size down much over the standard fit? I know a lot of G30 owners use 18" square setup for their winter wheels which really keeps the costs down on the tyres.


----------



## Caledoniandream (Oct 9, 2009)

Since I moved to this country 25 years ago, I always have used winter tyres, where I use to live they where compulsory during winter months,
I always wondered why they where not compulsory in this country.
If there is a quarter of an inch snow the country comes to a standstill, how do you think Scandinavia, Germany and Canada survive.
The poor excuse “ we hardly have any snow” misses the point completely.
I will stay home even more, it is safety, it keeps you and your family safe, it makes sure you are not stuck on some remote road and freeze to dead, and it gives you a chance to stop in time in a straight line.
We spend 10, of thousands on a car, we spend hundreds of pounds on a phone or a big telly, but we won’t spend a few hundred pound on a set of wheels and tyres that keeps us safe?
The cost are so negligible, I use 2 sets of tyres in 3 years, 1 summer and 1 winter, I use 2 sets regardless if I put winters on or not.

I sold my wife’s Ford Kuga AWD, with a extra set of wheels and winter tyres to a local guy.
He laughed and told me he would not used them, spoke a year later, and all of his cars including his children’s are running on winter tyres, as it was the first year he could drive up to the house when it was frosty, never mind in the snow.
100% converted.


----------



## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Dave KG said:


> I kept my 5 staggered ... but it's on the standard 662M 18" alloys, so no special order required. Fronts were 245/45/18 and I think around £150 each as I remember, the backs were 275/40/18 and £250 each. All Pirelli Sottozero 3 and star marked (bought from Camskill).
> 
> I imagine with the brakes, it won't have been easy to step the wheel size down much over the standard fit? I know a lot of G30 owners use 18" square setup for their winter wheels which really keeps the costs down on the tyres.


My 3 series is xdrive, and the square set-up is what I currently have fitted, with Sottozero 2, star rated tyres, 225/45/18 runflats all round. My summers are staggered 19s - 255/35 and 225/40.

Ideally I'd have liked to have kept the staggered set-up with the winters, but my dealership advised otherwise, oddly enough.

Anyhoo, here she is on the winters.









Cheers

Cooks

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## Andy from Sandy (May 6, 2011)

If it could be done they would probably recommend a skinnier wheel.



> Generally, narrower tires are better in snow and on ice because they are more stable and get better linear traction by penetrating the snow. This is not always true though; on hard-pack snow, wider tires with more sipes are better. In deep snow, wider tires might be able to float over the top, but that's a very specific situation. Narrower wheel widths are normally better because it rounds the profile of the tire and helps both penetration and floatation.


----------



## Bill58 (Jul 5, 2010)

It's good to read all the positive stories with the members on here using winter tyres. Like others I live in a rural area where winter tyres are essential during winter months. Unfortunately others don't see it that way and try to drive to places on summer tyres and end up blocking the road for everyone else.


----------



## ollienoclue (Jan 30, 2017)

I don't know what part of the arctic circle you guys live in but I've seen serious snow that was deep enough to stop a regular car perhaps 3 times in my driving career. Having lived high up on Exmoor where snow and ice was a routine winter thing it never concerned me a jot to drive on if it wasn't so deep a snow plough was required. Having spent so much time since my youth driving a variety of vehicles, including excavators, on sometimes anything but tarmac you get used to vehicles sliding around. Perhaps that is the difference here.

Still, in such conditions, it is safer to follow the advice of the police and avoid non-essential travel but I get it, you are all neurosurgeons who absolutely _must_ be on the road not withstanding were are in the grip of a pandemic and national lockdown but hey ho.

For people who live in Germany, Scandinavia and the like you can understand their insistence on winter tyres given that they have extremely low temperatures for prolonged periods of time, but for the majority of road users a set of cross climate tyres would suffice for anyone that nervous about cold weather.

I would also reiterate, once again that whilst you can enjoy your absolutely essential journey and the warm glow of winter tyres a large number of other road users, particularly heavy vehicles may not be and these all slide as well as anything else when piloted by someone who is not familiar with the conditions. Driving to the conditions does help as it slows everyone down but having seen people in the past trying to hammer up hills in first at about 6000rpm it doesn't instil a lot of confidence in me.

The country is populated by people who seem to think it is the local councils job to clear their drive so they can back their car out and whose first instinct is to sit in the road with their hazards on and declare themselves stuck at the first sign of trouble. Like I said, not even a challenger tank will help you there.


----------



## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

Cookies said:


> My 3 series is xdrive, and the square set-up is what I currently have fitted, with Sottozero 2, star rated tyres, 225/45/18 runflats all round. My summers are staggered 19s - 255/35 and 225/40.
> 
> Ideally I'd have liked to have kept the staggered set-up with the winters, but my dealership advised otherwise, oddly enough.
> 
> ...


Hi Cookies, excuse my naivety, but what does staggered and square setup mean?


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

ollienoclue said:


> I don't know what part of the arctic circle you guys live in but I've seen serious snow that was deep enough to stop a regular car perhaps 3 times in my driving career. Having lived high up on Exmoor where snow and ice was a routine winter thing it never concerned me a jot to drive on if it wasn't so deep a snow plough was required. Having spent so much time since my youth driving a variety of vehicles, including excavators, on sometimes anything but tarmac you get used to vehicles sliding around. Perhaps that is the difference here.
> 
> Still, in such conditions, it is safer to follow the advice of the police and avoid non-essential travel but I get it, you are all neurosurgeons who absolutely _must_ be on the road not withstanding were are in the grip of a pandemic and national lockdown but hey ho.
> 
> ...


Highland Perthshire - so as previously mentioned, in season, temperatures below 7C ambient are common (an indeed, vast majority of daily) between October and May, snow is also common and several inches to a foot is not uncommon on higher routes that I use to get to the school where I work... I can't, every year, just sit at home because it is snowing waiting for all the roads to be cleared - so in that case, setting the car up for the conditions is paramount. Yes, not all road users are the same, but a correctly set up car allows you to take mitigating actions _where possible_ with much more ease than without.

Your definition of workers who need to be able to get around is a little at odds with mine, but perhaps I have misunderstood the government documentation - I am not a neurosurgeon, but many of us here are key workers who do need to be able to get to work and make essential journeys in the grip of a pandemic... indeed, one of my 'essential journeys' in the past couple of days was a food delivery run for an elderly neighbour, perhaps that doesn't fall into neurosurgeon category but I am happy with that.

Yes - the driving style and knowing how to drive in the conditions is a big help - I've worked in my current location for 10 years, experiencing a wide variety of different snow types and every year you learn something new as you take your time, take care and to coin a phrase 'drive to the conditions'.


----------



## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

spursfan said:


> Hi Cookies, excuse my naivety, but what does staggered and square setup mean?


It's only a term I've become familiar with too since I bought a BMW.

Staggered means wider tyres at the back, and narrower at the front. My summers are 255-35-19 on the rear wheels, and 225-40-19 on the front.

A square set-up is just the same size tyres on all 4 wheels. Mine are 225-45-18 all round.

On the 18" rims, the summer tyres would normally be 255-40-18 on the rear, and 225-45-18 on the front. I'd have liked to have kept that set up in winter tyres, but BMW recommended the square set-up to me when fitting winter tyres to my xdrive 3 series.

Cheers

Cooks

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

spursfan said:


> Hi Cookies, excuse my naivety, but what does staggered and square setup mean?


Staggered - rear tyres wider than the front. On mine 245/45 front and 275/40 rear


----------



## spursfan (Aug 4, 2009)

Dave KG said:


> Staggered - rear tyres wider than the front. On mine 245/45 front and 275/40 rear


Beasties then Dave,few Bob's worth!


----------



## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

spursfan said:


> Beasties then Dave,few Bob's worth!


Not as much as some in this thread... fronts were around £150 each, rears closer to £250 each. They'll do a couple of seasons though and my summers are not being worn down currently so I just see it as 'front-loading' my tyre costs... I expect I'll get all next summer from the summer tyres, then all next winter season with the current winters, and probably another summer after that on the summers so it's a good while until I'll be buying tyres again


----------



## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

ollienoclue said:


> I don't know what part of the arctic circle you guys live in but I've seen serious snow that was deep enough to stop a regular car perhaps 3 times in my driving career. Having lived high up on Exmoor where snow and ice was a routine winter thing it never concerned me a jot to drive on if it wasn't so deep a snow plough was required. Having spent so much time since my youth driving a variety of vehicles, including excavators, on sometimes anything but tarmac you get used to vehicles sliding around. Perhaps that is the difference here.
> 
> Still, in such conditions, it is safer to follow the advice of the police and avoid non-essential travel but I get it, you are all neurosurgeons who absolutely _must_ be on the road not withstanding were are in the grip of a pandemic and national lockdown but hey ho.
> 
> ...


Again, missing the point entirely. The people who make the tyres on your car say you shouldn't use them approx. 6 months of the year in UK climate. It's not about arctic conditions, or even snow. It's about below 7°, or at a push, below 3°-4°

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cookies (Dec 10, 2008)

Dave KG said:


> Not as much as some in this thread... fronts were around £150 each, rears closer to £250 each. They'll do a couple of seasons though and my summers are not being worn down currently so I just see it as 'front-loading' my tyre costs... I expect I'll get all next summer from the summer tyres, then all next winter season with the current winters, and probably another summer after that on the summers so it's a good while until I'll be buying tyres again


Exactly this. I fitted the first replacement set of summer tyres on my 3 series when it had just turned 52,000 miles. As you say, I just front loaded the purchase of a set of tyres.

Cooks

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## c87reed (Dec 9, 2015)

There's no question that winter tyres offer a big advantage, however that falls off at a rapid rate once they start to wear by even a small amount. I run Vredestein Quatrac5 and they are a great option for the UK, where generally we don't get tons of snow.


----------



## Tricky Red (Mar 3, 2007)

I used to run Michelin Cross Climate + on the Golf GTE and managed 45k miles using all year until it was replaced by a new car. At the time of sale it still had 4mm each tyre left. I drove motorways regularly but the grip in winter was night and day compared to the Summer Dunlops that they replaced. 

On a previous Audi I ran Continental TS850 Winters and alternated but I think that for most people so called 'All Season' tyres would be adequate for our winters. 

I appreciate that Scotland and parts of Wales and North of England have it far worse and full winters might be needed there.


----------



## Tricky Red (Mar 3, 2007)

Also my local tyre place used to do a FOC tyre hotel for my winters and summers when I alternated them. Just had to pay for balancing and mounting each time which was around £60.


----------



## James_R (Jun 28, 2007)

c87reed said:


> There's no question that winter tyres offer a big advantage, however that falls off at a rapid rate once they start to wear by even a small amount. I run Vredestein Quatrac5 and they are a great option for the UK, where generally we don't get tons of snow.


I ran the Quatrac 5 on my last CR-V, decent tyres and lasted forever.


----------



## Nanoman (Jan 17, 2009)

Was Quatrac 5, now I think they’re Quatrac pro on my GS450H. Great tyres. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

ADAC (German AA) do independent tests yearly on all season and winter tyres.

https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/tests/reifen/

Currently running Nexen N-blue 4 season on the 2wd duster far more grip than the OEM continental cross contact on ice and snow not quite as good as full winter tyres but for what we get in the flat lands of East Yorkshire they are more than adequate..


----------



## RS3 (Mar 5, 2018)

c87reed said:


> There's no question that winter tyres offer a big advantage, however that falls off at a rapid rate once they start to wear by even a small amount. I run Vredestein Quatrac5 and they are a great option for the UK, where generally we don't get tons of snow.


I wouldn't agree. My continentals are now 7 years old and well over half way worn but still make a significant difference (as good as I ever remember). The main characteristic of a winter tyre is the rubber compound and not the nobbly bits on the tyre surface. Its the compound that prevents the rubber going hard once temps go below +7degC that makes the difference.


----------



## AnthonyUK (Jul 25, 2018)

RS3 said:


> The main characteristic of a winter tyre is the rubber compound and not the nobbly bits on the tyre surface.


I think they both important. The tread pattern for snow which allows snow to be picked up for grip, the sipes in the tread for more contact/water dispersal and the compound for cold and wet.


----------

