# Complete photography newbie, where to start?



## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

I've always been interested in photography but never really had the spare change to buy anything better than a generic point and shoot.

I've currently got a Panasonic TZ10 which is a great little camera for what it is. It's always got me craving more though and I've often found myself taking photos of things but always having noise and things in the background and generally feeling disappointed afterwards.

I've decided to start saving to treat myself to a 'proper' camera.

Where would you all start with this? What kind of budget do I realistically need to be looking at? (I could consider a used one.)

Where did those of you who are experienced photographers learn most of the skills? Would a college course be ideal? I've seen them advertised. Or is there enough information online etc these days to just watch a few videos and read a few articles?

Sorry for all the questions, I'd rather ask than save for a purchase that I end up regretting!


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## bigbrother (Jun 30, 2011)

If you can find a collage course that would be a good idea,alot of the brilliant pics you see are not point and shoot,the pro's take a long time setting up the shot so be patient,do you have a local photography club they can be useful,but the main thing is for an amateur is to have fun,i'm still looking for the perfect pic:thumb:


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## vxripper (Nov 20, 2012)

Going to college to get the basic knowledge and believe it or not, messing around with the setting f-stops and shutter speeds and you'll soon see what works and what makes a picture 'bad'
If you have the money, try to upgrade from a standard kit lens, but the kit lenses are absolutely fine for beginners. 
With a more expensive lens the technology inside and the glass gives a better finish of the final picture. There is less 'noise' if the finished picture  

How much would you like to spend?


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## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

Cheers chaps, I don't like to start threads with the 'not done any research' kind of thing, but having done a fair bit I'm still pretty stuck with where to start!

Not entirely sure how much I want to spend, not got an awful lot saved yet and it won't be happening overnight. 

Part of the reason for this is that I wanted to ask how much I should be saving in all honesty! I have no idea which cameras are good for beginners in all honesty.

Would it be best just to take the plunge and get one of the better ones and jump in at the deep end or go for one of the newbie ones and work my way up?

I'd quite like to make some of the HD videos you see on Vimeo etc, (I'm sure you know the ones I mean!) Where people do videos of certain cars, shows, etc. Stephen Brooks springs to mind when I think of the style I'd like to do one day.

All a bit of a pipeline dream and I fully appreciate it's one step at a time and I'm sure most of the "serious" equipment is WAY out of my price range.


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## voon (Apr 28, 2010)

If you want VERY tight quick tips:

- Get a DSLR .. I mean from a friend, whatever, to try settings. Alternatively a good small cam like a Sony RX100, a Canon G series etc, but those are all limited by their comparatively tiny sensors and compacts lenses etc
- Set it to Av Mode, then chose different aperture values and shoot the same pic .. watch what happens to the areas outside your focal point
- Set it to focus only on the center, chose your focus wisely and where you want it, no automatic chosing by the cam
- Learn to pick focus at one point, turn camera and shoot elsewhere (storing focus, usually half pressed button)
- Learn to use the * button (hold lighting thingmajig, sorry, nonnative speaker)
- Do not shoot in midday sun, chose mornings and evenings .. low light, golden light etc
- Finally, watch what your taking pictures of. Don't cut off people, learn about the tow-thirds rule, watch the lines in the pictures and how they interact, build a a nice image etc ... absolutley DON'T just go outside and shoot your parking car amidst ads, street signs whatever with a mobile phone etc .. that's just a waste of energy, time and other peoples time watching that crap of a "picture".

As for Models:

- There's no "Beginners" cam .. why should you buy lowend crap just because you're a beginner? You'll only get frustrated. I use a 60D with the good 15-85mm lens .. and only that and I love it (far better than my previous 17-85mm lens btw, just to show you, that similar numbers can mean big differences in sharpness etc still). There's only price and what you can afford. For a DSLR, the small Canons and Nikons (I'd stay with those two systems... both offer huge amount sof accessories etc) produce excellent results, they often share the same sensor as several higher up models (Canon 600D, 650D, 60D, 7D all use the same sensor) ... the pricier ones are usually larger or get a metal body or have a few more buttons for easier handling and expand in things like more/better AF sensors or faster shutter times ... but the basic models handle all of this for all kinds of normal fotography. It's more about you ... what sits well in your hands? Can you easily access all required settings oyu like to change? Does it "feel" good to you? Do you enjoy using it? Also note: DSLR = heavy big chunk ... and an important thing are the lenses ... and good ones cost.

Maybe you'd prefer a compact cam, but those are of course limited ... the, the RX100 is the actual king there IMHO .. biggest sensor chip and good optics for a smal cam ... but expensive, you get what you pay for.


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## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

Thanks for that mate, made for an interesting read. I'm not sure where my TZ10 ranks on the 'small cam' ranks but it does have a fair amount of adjustments. I've played around with them a fair bit and rather enjoyed doing it, but I know I could be getting so much more.

Sadly I can't think of anyone I know that has a DSLR for me to borrow, none of my mates are in to photography.

Could I ask what your opinions are on the Nikon D3100? Seems to have great write-ups online, whilst it might not be the greatest camera out there I feel for me it'd be a huge step up from what I have at the moment. It'd be within the kind of budget I'd set out to have and I think it'd be a great base for me to learn whether I do or don't really like being a 'serious' photographer instead of randomly pointing and shooting at things.

Don't really like the thought of another compact cam, although it's great for when you go on holiday to not have something massive to carry around I'd rather get a cheaper camera for that and have a good one for when I want to take some decent pictures.


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## LeadFarmer (Feb 23, 2011)

I reckon you will be fine with the Nikon D3100. Since buying my Nikon D5000 I havent touched my compact camera. If I want to take good photos I use my Nikon, for any other photos (and if I dont want to carry my DSLR about) I just use my iPhone5.

I would suggest either the Nikon D3000 series or Canon equivelant. You wont go wrong with either. If you can stretch your ££ to the D5000 series then mores the better. There are of course other brands, but you wont be making a mistake by sticking with any of the Nikon or Canons.

There are deals to be had on the D3100 seeing as its being replaced by the D3200

This looks good.. Nikon D3100 Digital SLR Camera with 18-55mm VR and: Amazon.co.uk: Camera & Photo

If any of your friends have DSLR's then buy the same brand as them, so you can learn off them and try out ther lenses on your camera.

As well as the stock 18/55mm lens, you will find yourself also wanting a zoom lens, so consider a package that comes with say a 70/200mm or similar. Or just get the basic package and buy a Sigma or Tamron zoom lens.


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/

Pentax K-30 - best budget DSLR on the market, and more than an equal for the D5100, if not the D5200.
Often overlooked in favour of the big two, but as you've no friends or family to borrow lenses from, then you don't need to confine yourself to Canon or Nikon.
Also the cheapest fully weather resistant out there - Nikon start at the D7000 and Canon with their 60D.
Low level noise is also on a par with the higher priced offerings from Canikon too.

You'll get told they've hundreds of lenses to choose from, whereas Sony/Pentax have only half as much - this is the stupidest reason I see all the time for promoting the idea only Canon and Nikon are worth considering.
When, or indeed if, you become more versed in photography and finances permit, then you can swap to the other two and buy their £1.5-2K+ lenses and "Pro" bodies (remember, you'll need a back-up body!) - until such time, every brand is an option, including the Olympus and Panasonic micro 4/3rds system.

So keep an open mind and don't start pigeonholing yourself as a Canonista or Nikonite zombie - the others are every bit as good at their respective price points, and only for smaller advertising/marketing budgets, they too would be talked about more often.
At the end of the day, it's not the camera or lenses, but the idiot behind them that creates the pictures.


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## Stewartfinley (Mar 3, 2012)

I used digital photography school forum to learn. Great weekly challenges and tips.

http://digital-photography-school.com/


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## voon (Apr 28, 2010)

PJS said:


> So keep an open mind and don't sta... produces just one lens .. the one I have. :)


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## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

Spent most of my evening tonight researching various things, still don't even feel like I've begun to scrape the top of the iceberg with regards to what I should be getting.

I think that reasonably I've set my budget around £400, I could stretch to the K-30 if it was absolutely perfect for me but I can't really find anywhere near as much about it compared to the other two. I'm sure it has a cult following and some people swear by it but I think for a beginner it's best to get the camera I can get the most knowledge, help and information on.

The more I looked in to video tonight the more I realised I'd love to have a camera that was capable of recording decent video. After looking through various reviews on various websites etc, it seems that the D3100 is great value for money and would be pretty much perfect for what I'm after and at a very reasonable price too.

Now, since the video aspect is being considered a lot more, would the D5100 be a better route to go down? Amazon do the camera with 18-55mm VR Lens Kit for £411 which would be right at the top of my budget.

Would this be a waste of money over the 3100 or does it look worthwhile to you guys?

I also keep seeing this lens pop up, which seems to have fantastic reviews: Nikon AF-S DX 35mm f1.8G Lens: Amazon.co.uk: Camera & Photo

Thanks again for all the help/feedback, it's all been read, appreciated and taken on board, just a lot to take in right now!


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## B2ONGO (May 5, 2011)

I'm one of those Nikonite Zombies.

Had my D3100 for over a year and upgraded to the D7000 a month or so back. I found it to be an excellent camera. When comparing the quality of images to the D7000 (using the same lens) I cant really tell any difference until I start to push the ISO higher. All the controls you have on the D5100 and D7000 are available on the D3100 - you just have to go a bit deeper into the menu to find them. Obviously there are other extras on the higher spec cameras like a more robust body, built in lens motor, 2 sd card slots, etc - essentially though, unless you are working in low light the same image can be produced using the lower spec camera.

The biggest benefit for me when I was starting out with the D3100 was the built in guide mode. You set the camera to the type of shot you want and it sets it up with recommeded settings, telling you what each one does. You canuse this info to gradually understand the aperture, ISO and shutter speed relationship, helping to move onto more manual controls.

The 35mm f1.8 is unbelievable value for money too. Its as sharp as a tack and with the 1.8 aperture you can really get creative with focal planes etc. It works as a great portrait lens and being a prime lens (no zoom) it helps you think about composition more as you move around the subject to get a good point of view rather than stand in the same spot and zoom in / out.

The other brands are all probably just as good - I only have experience of the Nikons so I cant really comment. With the D3200 coming out there are some cracking deals on the D3100 just now. Similarly, with full frame cameras becoming more affordable a lot of people are upgrading meaning the DX lens's are going for a steal 2nd hand. I picked up a mint 17-55mm F2.8 DX for about a third of its retail value a few weeks back, last year I would have been looking at double that for a similar buy.

Hope this helps.

Decent review here - http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/recommended-cameras.htm


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## PJS (Aug 18, 2007)

voon said:


> Hm, you sound like a somewhat angry man .. Nikonite Zombies?
> 
> It's a valid point, Pentax makes good cams .. the K-30 seems excellent value. It is true, that they got about half the lenses, but the question is rather, do they have the one(s) you need in the quality you need, so the amount is quite probably not important.


Angry? 
There are many brand zombies - people who will buy a brand based on what every one else is using, which in photography circles is one of the big two.
No thought goes into it, just simply buy it because it must be good - they're the two biggest, right?

Totally dismisses the Sony SLT technology and high frame rate.
Totally bypasses the Pentax value for money and superb ease of use design and weatherproofing.
Totally skips past the in-body Image Stabilisation, which means every lens benefits rather than bulkier/heavier lenses, and more expensive, doing it the Canikon way.

If I was to buy any Canikon body, it'd be the D7000, but the Pentax K5 is at least the equal, if not better in some areas, and the II & IIs are not lagging behind the newly announced D7100, although no doubt "uncle" Ken will evangelise the D7100 as the best thing since sliced bread (or Oreos and milk).
That there's potentially a K3 awaiting introduction in April, either as Pentax's top APS-C or first full-frame, suggests they've not conceded the higher end of the market to Canikon, and certainly not Sony.

As for lenses - Pentax has plenty too offer choice from, not least their excellent Limiteds (easily the equal of many a Zeiss), as well as Samyang's stunning manual lenses, Tamron's infamous (and excellent) 17-50, Sigmas, and Tokinas.
Everything from landscape UWA to portraits, and to long zooms, are covered, and that's not forgetting older lenses from 45 years or more, inc Zeiss and Voigtlanders.
There is a plethora of lenses with superb optical characteristics, so the notion that a person needs twice as much to choose from is frankly a ridiculous way to convince a buyer to stick with only considering the top two brands.


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## LeadFarmer (Feb 23, 2011)

bildo, here are two features that I ensured came on my Nikon D5000.

HD video recording
Flip out/swivel/tilt dislpay screen

And they are also the two features that I absolutely dont use. Ever.

Focusing in video mode isn't easy, and requires you to use the display screen to live view your image. This means holding the camera out in front of you to record, which is a very unnatural position to hold a DSLR. As the subject moves towards/away from you they soon become out of focus, which means faffing about with the controls. Not enjoyable.

The D5000 advertising campaign featured someone at a golf tournament holding their Nikon above the heads of a crowd in front of them and using the tilt display screen to see what they were snapping. Brilliant I thought, just what Im after. But I can honestly say that having tried it, I never use it. A DSLR needs to be held up to your eye to use the viewfinder, using it any other way in just unnatural.

I use my HD camcorder for video, and my DSLR for photo. I dont really think the two should be mixed.


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## voon (Apr 28, 2010)

I find it very important to hold the camera ... go into a shop first. I used to have an older Canon 350D, then bought a 60D. While the 60D is also a huge improvement on ISO noise and more, it was also bigtime about usability to me. The 60D is bigger, sits in my hands way better than the small 350D back then and it provides access to the important features quickly, compared to he 350Ds somewhat awkward menue usage. Also, the 60D has a topbody LCD display, which I find useful.

Now I talk about Canons, as they're all I owned and used. I remember the Nikon 5000 series having an issue with hotpixels back then, not sure if this is generally a thing of the past? Apart from that, they're excellent .. supposedly more a bit more dynamic than my 60D etc.

That said: *any* of these modern DSLR cams, no matter if Nikon, Canon or Pentax etc are going to produce excellent pictures in the hands of someone, who can handle them and has a bit of an eye for image composition. I find all these dynamic measurements, sharpness tests etc are a bit silly, as out there in the wild, they suddenly don't matter that much. I see q bit of a difference in the lenses I owned, the new one is indeed sharper and its IS a level better etc, but those bodies are all excellent to the amateur like me. Technically, you should be happy with any of those. As I've said, I'd rather check which one lies in your hand best and which menu system, button arragement etc you like best. Or see if one has a feature you can't live without (like 1/8000 shots and other "edgeabilities").

I think some say, the body is the least important bit in your cam setup. I don't find that completely true, as you might miss a feature you absolutly want, but to some extent, it is.


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## Brazo (Oct 27, 2005)

bildo to make your life easy

The Nikon 5100 and kit lens is within your budget and a great start, you could always add the 35mm 1.8 down the line. 

I don't know how much the Pentax K30 is with a kit lens but that would make agreat leftfield choice. 

I'm a hardcore Sony fan through and through but I've stopped recruiting into the club so I won't push my opinion onto you 

Any of the above would be a great choice. The Sony made 16 megapixel sensor is used in the Pentax, in the Nikon 5100 and 7000 (not 3100) and the Sony DSLR's so effectively they all have the same 'guts' and its a damn good sensor.


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## Mish_81 (Feb 21, 2013)

I was a beginner to the world of photography last year and did loads of research - I ended up choosing a Canon 550D SLR and have to say it's awesome - I opted for the 18-135mm Canon lens which is quite versatile.

I'd recommended going to electrical shops (obviously not Jessops now!) and playing around with some Nikons and Canons - that's what I did and found the Canons more user friendly.

Also, I went on a half day beginners SLR course that I found on Groupon - it was a great way to learn how to use your SLR once you've bought one!

Enjoy


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## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

Some fantastic responses in here chaps, really helped me make my mind up and made me realise a lot that wasn't too obvious initially.



B2ONGO said:


> I'm one of those Nikonite Zombies.
> 
> Had my D3100 for over a year and upgraded to the D7000 a month or so back. I found it to be an excellent camera. When comparing the quality of images to the D7000 (using the same lens) I cant really tell any difference until I start to push the ISO higher. All the controls you have on the D5100 and D7000 are available on the D3100 - you just have to go a bit deeper into the menu to find them. Obviously there are other extras on the higher spec cameras like a more robust body, built in lens motor, 2 sd card slots, etc - essentially though, unless you are working in low light the same image can be produced using the lower spec camera.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your post, glad to see the perspective of a D3100 user.

The guide mode sounds very interesting, I assume this isn't in the D5100?

Glad to see another good review on the 35mm f1.8. Since I would like to zoom sometimes I may benefit from the lens provided with the deal for the D5100 too.

I think that's one of the things, all the cameras sound so similar and so competitive that I feel as though as long as I decide my budget and stick with what people know I'll end up being chuffed. From what I read the D5100 is cheap at the moment too? (£411 with lens) due to the D5200 coming out soon?

I know you're edging more towards the D3100 but what I found interesting from the link you gave me was that it said this:
'The Best Camera for Everything' was the D3100
'Best Serious Camera (DSLR)' was the D5100

There do seem to be quite a few additional options available within the D5100 that isn't on the D3100 like someone mentioned later on in the thread about it sharing the (apparently) fantastic sensor from the D7000.

Things like this as well as it not sounding like a complete "noob" camera like the D3100 seems to get a lot of are making me edge towards it. Despite being the noobiest of all noobs I like to think I might have a chance of progressing rather quickly with the wealth of information out there.



LeadFarmer said:


> bildo, here are two features that I ensured came on my Nikon D5000.
> 
> HD video recording
> Flip out/swivel/tilt dislpay screen
> ...


That's very interesting to say that, as the HD video recording is a big part of what I'd like. It sounds absolutely diabolical for this though which has made me feel a bit sad! I assume due to the requirement of the screen it's near-useless for video recording?



voon said:


> I find it very important to hold the camera ... go into a shop first. I used to have an older Canon 350D, then bought a 60D. While the 60D is also a huge improvement on ISO noise and more, it was also bigtime about usability to me. The 60D is bigger, sits in my hands way better than the small 350D back then and it provides access to the important features quickly, compared to he 350Ds somewhat awkward menue usage. Also, the 60D has a topbody LCD display, which I find useful.
> 
> Now I talk about Canons, as they're all I owned and used. I remember the Nikon 5000 series having an issue with hotpixels back then, not sure if this is generally a thing of the past? Apart from that, they're excellent .. supposedly more a bit more dynamic than my 60D etc.
> 
> ...


Went to PC World tonight and they actually had a decent price on the D5100 surprisingly, I got a good feel of it and liked the size/compactness of it. Some of the DSLR's looked huge in comparison.

Admittedly it was a dummy model so I didn't get a real feel for it but having not even used a menu on a decent camera before I think I'd adapt pretty easily.

Not heard anything about hotpixels? Will look into that more, thanks.

I have had a look/comparison of a lot of cameras and the only thing that is putting me off a little bit is the previous posters' mention of it being a bit rubbish for video recording! 



Brazo said:


> bildo to make your life easy
> 
> The Nikon 5100 and kit lens is within your budget and a great start, you could always add the 35mm 1.8 down the line.
> 
> ...


Good words, I have a habit of splashing out silly money when I first get something before I even get full use out of what I already have so I guess the lens won't be too much of an urgency and might make me appreciate it a bit more if I wait for it!

One thing that's really swaying me with the Nikon is the amount of knowledge that can be found online. I looked into the Pentax a bit and felt it would leave me a bit clueless in some areas. For this reason I think I should START with the Nikon and then if I decide later down the line I want to change then I can do.

Did read about the 5100 and 7000 having that sensor, which sounded great. Also heard fantastic things about it so thanks for that :thumb:



Mish_81 said:


> I was a beginner to the world of photography last year and did loads of research - I ended up choosing a Canon 550D SLR and have to say it's awesome - I opted for the 18-135mm Canon lens which is quite versatile.
> 
> I'd recommended going to electrical shops (obviously not Jessops now!) and playing around with some Nikons and Canons - that's what I did and found the Canons more user friendly.
> 
> ...


Did immediately think of Jessops actually haha.

I did read that the 550D is great for video, do you do much/any videoing at all? If so how did you find it?

Will try and get into some of the local shops to decide which camera is best for me, thanks for the advice.

The beginners course sounds great, all I've found in my local area so far is a year long college course for £500! I think I'll give that a miss!


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## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

Another thing that swayed it for me is I've learnt a LOT of things using Lynda.com's tutorials. They have a D5100 specific tutorial (approx 3 hours long iirc) which really explains all the features of the camera really in-depth.

For me this is a million times more useful than reading the instruction manual or similar and I'm convinced I'd really get the most out of the camera from watching a specific tutorial.

It also has various other ones in photography so hopefully I'll concentrate and have some decent photos to show off one day!


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## Mish_81 (Feb 21, 2013)

Video on the 550D is not very good tbh...SLRs aren't made for video so most aren't as good as dedicated video cameras even though they shoot in full HD.

The main problem with the video is the auto-focus (or lack of it!)...if the subjects in the video are moving around at the same depth then no issue, but as soon as you're having to focus on objects either closer or further away...it all goes blurry!

The Groupon courses are only £30 or something!


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## LeadFarmer (Feb 23, 2011)

bildo said:


> The guide mode sounds very interesting, I assume this isn't in the D5100?


Well my D5000 has the built in guide so I expect the D5100 has it also. I find the menu on the my lcd display to be very informative, e.g. when adjusting the aperture theres a diagram representing the lens iris and shows how far open/closed it is, which helps make it easy to understand as a beginner. Heres a few photos of the lcd display on my D5000..

This one shows the lens iris diagram on the left, together with its f stop of f5, and the shutter speed of 1/2.5 (may sound confusing but it isn't). All the info I need is clearly displayed..










When selecting one of the settings (in this case ISO) I can press the 'info' button and a reference guide appears explaining what that feature does..



















All the above is useful for a beginner like me!


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## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

Mish_81 said:


> Video on the 550D is not very good tbh...SLRs aren't made for video so most aren't as good as dedicated video cameras even though they shoot in full HD.
> 
> The main problem with the video is the auto-focus (or lack of it!)...if the subjects in the video are moving around at the same depth then no issue, but as soon as you're having to focus on objects either closer or further away...it all goes blurry!
> 
> The Groupon courses are only £30 or something!


That's very useful, thank you. I'd read somewhere that it was the better one for video but I guess that helps make my mind up if I won't see an improvement on the video aspect, so thank you!

I'll keep an eye out for the Groupon courses, don't seem to be any in my area at the mo. Won't be able to get the camera until May time so no real rush. (Although I'm concerningly tempted to get it straight away )



LeadFarmer said:


> Well my D5000 has the built in guide so I expect the D5100 has it also. I find the menu on the my lcd display to be very informative, e.g. when adjusting the aperture theres a diagram representing the lens iris and shows how far open/closed it is, which helps make it easy to understand as a beginner. Heres a few photos of the lcd display on my D5000..
> 
> All the above is useful for a beginner like me!


That's fantastic mate, I'm sure all the complicated stuff will be explained to me in the guides (hopefully!)

Thank you very much for taking the time to post the pictures too, much appreciated! :thumb:


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## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

I failed, massively.

I initially started this thread to sort out what my birthday present will be in May, finally got that sorted and all was fine.

... Until.

Tonight I went shopping for a few little bits, walked past Currys and just happened to see someone walk up to the counter with a D5100.

A little (big) bit of jealousy kicked in and about 10 minutes later I found myself in the same situation.

I can now proudly say I'm a D5100 owner, and less proudly say my credit card took a pounding tonight!


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## LeadFarmer (Feb 23, 2011)

Congratulations :thumb:. And now the learning begins. Stick with it and you will find it very enjoyable.


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## bildo (Mar 29, 2008)

Cheers bud, already been watching the first of the Lynda videos, it's very informative and I've learnt quite a bit already.

LOTS to take in so I can see myself watching a couple of the sections more than once!

Thank you all once again for your help and info!


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