# Dipping my toe in ceramic coatings



## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

Hey guys, 

I'm thinking of moving over to ceramic coating due to there longevity however I'm torn due to all of the offerings! 

I've narrowed it down to three, I originally looked at cquartz, gtechniq and gyeon but since then going from John at forensic recommendations chose to go with the gyeon mohs and skin kit. However I seem to be struck by paralysis by analysis! 

The main hitters I'm looking at are: 

Carbon collective - Nero + molecule 

Kamikaze- miyabi + ISM (would love to use zipang but to be certified and I'm not about to spend 400 quid on a course to just buy a coating lol) 

Gyeon mohs + synchro 

While I want good longevity gloss and ease of use are big factors! 

Would rather spend the money on one coating! 

Cheers 
Ec

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## Fatboy40 (Apr 15, 2013)

For me a deciding factor would be whether or not you have a garage that you can keep the car in over a weekend whilst you do it.

If yes you have so many options.

If no then ease of use is a deciding factor.


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

Fatboy40 said:


> For me a deciding factor would be whether or not you have a garage that you can keep the car in over a weekend whilst you do it.
> 
> If yes you have so many options.
> 
> If no then ease of use is a deciding factor.


Have a garage to use so but use the car daily so would plan to do it over a long weekend

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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

For me and my individual preferences, Kamikaze has exceeded my expectations and is what is on my personal cars.

Kamikaze offers a nice bit of complexity and depth of appearance and Miyabi + ISM is what was on personal cars for a few years (2016) until I redid with Miyabi + Zipang last summer.

The Kamikaze stuff just plain works for me and I enjoy using it. Easy to use, great looks, best self-cleaning characteristics of any I have used.

However...

First thing you should do is decide what YOU want out of a coating; things to consider:

1. Durability, longevity

2. What kind of appearance? i.e. hard, candy-like gloss or deeper, warmer wax-like glow

3. Ease of application important?

4. Climate; what might work nice in Arizona (dry) might not be so nice in New Jersey (rain/snow)

5. Do you like beading or sheeting?

6. Are self-cleaning characteristics important to you or are you gonna wash your car weekly regardless?

7. How much do you wanna spend?

8. Daily driver or hobby car?

While quartz/glass/ceramic coatings are all in the same general category with respect to LSP's, there are subtle differences in them and you may as well go with one that is strong in your primary areas of concern.

And FWIW, claims of hardness, scratch resistance and such are, IMO, way over-marketed with coatings. While they may provide some minor resistance to light marring, it's a harsh world out there and many things (jewelry banging paint around door handles, boxes hitting trunk areas while loading, leaning on hood of vehicle with grimy sweatshirts, etc) *will* leave a mark.

Problem with coatings is the only way to remedy those marks/marring is to re-polish (removing coating) and re-coating that area, generally an entire panel as many coatings don't lend themselves well to spot fixes. If you're horribly OCD-ish about having a totally defect free car for 2 years, a coating may not be the best way to go...

Longevity is likewise impossible to truly predict due to variations in climate, vehicle usage and maintenance habits. Claims listed on packages/advertisements are generally somewhat, uh...optimistic. Not always, but usually...

I live in NE Ohio so all my findings/thoughts are based on that climate. The characteristics of a coating that matter most to me are:

1. Great Self Cleaning Abilities: Our cars see rain and often get rained on in the morning and then sit outside in the sun in the afternoon; don't like waterspots. I like clean cars but don't like cleaning cars.

2. Durability and resistance to environmental contamination like water spots and bird bombs. Don't wanna have to worry about running home and immediately dealing with removing things that would otherwise etch bare paint. Like hard water spots did to our black 2004 Corvette during the wax/sealant years. Also has to last cuz I don't wanna be hauling out compounds and polishes every Spring, given reasonable maintenance.

3. Appearance: Well, stuff has to look good. Has to accentuate body lines, curves and hard edges. It needs to make me stop and admire it when walking towards it, walking away from it or catching a glance in the garage when I take out the garbage.

Have tried a few different coatings, watched 'em over the course of 20k-40k miles (each) in NE Ohio, variety of vehicle usage and maintenance patterns.

To be honest, of all the coatings I've tried, there were really no bad products but some did particular things a little better/different than others so I went with the one (s) that excelled in areas I found important.

Read, research, try a few if you can....that's what your wife's car is for, no?!?

YMMV.

Worth noting I am certainly no professional, just kinda got interested in coatings and finding the best one *for me*...3 years later, 20-25 different coatings, a couple of hundred thousand cumulative miles on the vehicles I tested them on and I'm *extremely* satisfied every time I look at our cars. Very subjective topic though, really no right or wrong answers, personal preferences certainly play a large role.

While I don't really think there is a universal, all-around best 'Best Coating in the World' there is likely a 'Best For You'...ya just gotta find it if so inclined.

If you like reading, kept some notes and thoughts on coatings I have used over the past 2-3 years. Can find 'em here if interested:

https://budgetplan1.wordpress.com/glass-quartz-ceramic-coatings/


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

I was hoping budgetplan1 would reply due to his considerable experience on coatings (he has a Thread on Autopia currently running to 34 pages!) and the above advice should give you considerable further food for thought and help you decide what your priorities are for a coating. 

I would also add that you need to consider preparation of your paint as this has considerable input to the final appearance once coated. Fully decontaminated paint is obviously essential. However, unless your paint is machine polished and any defects are removed, or minimised, you won’t be maximising the potential of the wonderful and expensive coatings you are considering. As these coatings are semi-permanent you won’t be able to do any real maintenance to the paint once applied, only maintenance of the coating, and this could be for a period of time in excess of 2 years. 

With regard to coating recommendations I have used all generations of Gtechniq C1, Max Protect V1 and V2, CQuartz (original and UK) and Kamikaze ISM. Some of these have required a learning curve to apply whilst others have been a lot simpler. The easiest of these has been Kamikaze ISM and this has also been my favourite to date due to the 'candy' like look. 

I hope this helps.

Alan W


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## Fatboy40 (Apr 15, 2013)

Stonking advice above, and one thing I'd add is that an SiO2 "primer" polish can make the coating look and behave even better, e.g CarPro Essence or Britemax Virtue.

I was blown away by just CarPro Essence topped with Reload, which if you're short of time may be a good starter option for you?


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

Thank you for all your detailed responses I really appreciate it! I'll be giving the car a machine polish before applying with s20 black as a one step, I live in the UK and prefer a beading type product rather than sheeting. I've used both and the sheeting somehow doesn't give me the same satisfaction as beading does regardless on whether the car is 'protected' or not. I would love it to have the warmth that carbuba gives but I do also like the hyper reflections that kamikaze seems to offer. Is there a way if getting a hold of the zipang without being certified? 

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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

Eturty said:


> Is there a way if getting a hold of the zipang without being certified?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


You could import from Esoteric. 

Alan W


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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

Alan W said:


> You could import from Esoteric.
> 
> Alan W


Unfortunately, that's about the only way.

That said, I'll occasionally have something sent over from Ultimate Finish UK and shipping is usually around $20 US and sometimes quicker than orders I make w US Suppliers.

Then again, common sense when detailing stuff is involved is not a particularly strong suit of mine. We just got 4 new fleet Van's at work and I threw a ton of Kamikaze at 1 of 'em...just because I could. Just *has* to be the best protected swimming pool technician van in the state


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## atbalfour (Aug 11, 2019)

Alan W said:


> You could import from Esoteric.
> 
> Alan W


If anyone does decide to import please get me a couple of Kamikaze (Esoteric) Sponges. Can't get them anywhere. :lol:


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## Alan W (May 11, 2006)

budgetplan1 said:


> Then again, common sense when detailing stuff is involved is not a particularly strong suit of mine.


We've noticed! :lol: (and thank you for the reviews and observations that result. :thumb



budgetplan1 said:


> We just got 4 new fleet Van's at work and I threw a ton of Kamikaze at 1 of 'em...just because I could. Just *has* to be the best protected swimming pool technician van in the state


I think you've understated that somewhat - more like the best protected pool technician van in the world, ever! :doublesho

Alan W


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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

Alan W said:


> I think you've understated that somewhat - more like the best protected pool technician van in the world, ever! :doublesho
> 
> Alan W


A fleet of large, windowless vans does make for a nice set of rolling test panels. A pain to prep/polish but still worth the effort for me...oddly entertaining to see each day.

Have one more to do this year, it'll be getting SPS Graphene.


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## sm81 (May 14, 2011)

Kamikaze better than SPS/Artdeshine Graphene equivalents?


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## President Swirl (Oct 23, 2011)

At least when that little piggy goes to market, he'll be waterproof.


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## Webarno (Jul 17, 2014)

I've recently had Carbon Collective Molecule and Nero coatings applied professionally so can offer some first hand impressions, but can't compare to the other brands you've mentioned.

The level of gloss, smoothness and water behaviour properties have impressed me massively! The first wash after having the coatings applied was by far the easiest time I've had washing a car, it was just so slick and effortless to clean and dry.
I haven't applied any QD's or sealants over the top after washing and drying, as for the first 6 months or so I just want to see the ceramic coating do all the work if that makes sense.

Anyway, here are some pics (the beading ones are before the car was clean!):


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

Thanks for your replies guys I approve it! 

It's looking more like I'm going to go with the kamikaze collection ism and miyabi

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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

sm81 said:


> Kamikaze better than SPS/Artdeshine Graphene equivalents?


It's not so much a question of 'better' as it is a matter of 'different'. Worthwhile to note that I've only had 9 months of daily living with w the SPS Graphene so i cant directly comment on true longevity yet. I've been messing with Kamikaze since 2016, on a few personal cars as well as fleet vehicles, for close to 100k cumulative miles now. I *know* that stuff works for me both functionally and aesthetically, on well kept personal cars and maintenance-deprived fleet vehicles alike.

Heck, I spent 3 years trying 25 or so different coatings, specifically looking for something that surpassed Kamikaze for my particular needs...and nothing did. So any contender for the throne has a pretty steep hill to climb.

That said, the SPS has performed quite admirably so far, has a tentative spot just shy of Kamikaze on my list of favorites...so far. The gloss of SPS is a sharp, reflective gloss...sharp enough that it often seems to give the appearance of being cleaner than it actually is if you put your nose to the paint. Almost like the gloss seems to 'burn through' any light layer of dust that diminishes the look of black paint. It's kinda weird, but welcome.

It sheets very well during flood rinse and the beading is nice. When rain beads up and dries in the sun, the water spots have never been permanent and come off easily during a subsequent wash. Perhaps a slight increase in pressure w regards to wash Mitt is needed during washing to get them...nothing unusual but a touch more than Kamikaze which just lets me drag mitt w no pressure to clean surface.

Visibly entertaining water behavior in the wet, either stationary or underway, is one of Kamikaze's strong suits and it has an edge in that area. SPS is certainly no slouch in that area but Kamikaze is SO good that not quite meeting its established standard is not really a mark against SPS.

One of the things I really like about Kamikaze is the variety of combos i can use to tweak the looks and durability of the finished surface. With Miyabi, ISM 1.0, ISM 2.0, Zipang & Infinity Wax I can kinda tailor the look to particular wants I may have for any situation...all while maintaining the excellent self-cleaning & protection that are the foundations of any coating for me. Sharp gloss, candy gloss, deeper wax-like glow, 'relaxed high gloss'...all are looks I can achieve depending on what I'm currently in the mood for based on color or other particulars of a given vehicle.

SPS is very good and will likely please anyone should longevity prove itself over the next 15 months or so...but since tinkering is sometimes fun, the flexibility of the Kami stuff just 'speaks to me' and overall it ticks more of my boxes, both tangible and intangible.

I could certainly see using SPS again on a personal car, has a great sharp gloss, provides excellent protection and has great self-cleaning properties...but for our truly special cars, the added complexity of appearance (whether actually real or merely all in my head, a definite possibility ) will still have me reaching for those pretty bottles from Japan.

Bear in mind that I sometimes overthink these things though...

And aside from ISM 2.0, which is a bit more particular regarding application, the stuff is blindingly easy to use.


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

Thanks for your reply budgetplan1, although i now find your name almost ironic lol!

So going forward i think ill be using the following kits. 

Miyabi + ISM (+ overcoat every few months)

Gyeon view for windscreen sealant 

CC Platinum wheels for wheel protection 

Gyeon trim for exterior bits

I did think going full kamikase for wheels and windscreen but it feels a little over kill and the other products are well regarded! 

Would you recommend the anti ageing shampoo from kamiakse? or am i okay with something like gyeon bathe for maintenance washes? Also will a snow foam be okay to use on coated car? something like Autobrite magifoam/gyeon foam? 

Cheers
E


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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

Eturty said:


> Thanks for your reply budgetplan1, although i now find your name almost ironic lol!


 Yeah, I'm trying to work on that this year!


Eturty said:


> So going forward i think ill be using the following kits.
> 
> Miyabi + ISM (+ overcoat every few months)
> 
> ...


Sounds like a solid plan. One thing to note is that any leftover ISM is the best trim coating I've ever used. Since ISM is one layer only, I usually end up with 10ml or so leftover and always do any trim w it that 8 can.



Eturty said:


> Would you recommend the anti ageing shampoo from kamiakse? or am i okay with something like gyeon bathe for maintenance washes? Also will a snow foam be okay to use on coated car? something like Autobrite magifoam/gyeon foam?
> 
> Cheers
> E


I used Gyeon Bathe for a few years, no issues w that. Can certainly use the Kami shampoo if you like but it's not very cost-effective if you wash car a lot. I also use Gyeon Foam for the most part. If car isnt really dirty I'll also shoot Gyeon Bathe outta the foam cannon instead.


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## Smartin (Dec 31, 2018)

Eturty said:


> So going forward i think ill be using the following kits.
> 
> Miyabi + ISM (+ overcoat every few months)
> 
> ...


Wow. Not what I would call dipping a toe in. More like diving in head first :lol:

Was expecting to see a gentle start like CanCoat, CQuartz Lite etc.


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

Smartin said:


> Wow. Not what I would call dipping a toe in. More like diving in head first :lol:
> 
> Was expecting to see a gentle start like CanCoat, CQuartz Lite etc.


I don't like having random half empty bottles everywhere lol!

Just way easier to buy once.

My only concern surrounding kamikaze is that the defect removal is apparently difficult when compared to something like Gyeon?


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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

Eturty said:


> My only concern surrounding kamikaze is that the defect removal is apparently difficult when compared to something like Gyeon?


Unsure as to what exactly you are referring to? Do you mean re-doing a coated panel that has been the unfortunate victim of a 'defect incursion', i.e. "Aunt Edna ran a shopping cart into my fender at the local Piggly-Wiggly and left a scratch"?


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

budgetplan1 said:


> Unsure as to what exactly you are referring to? Do you mean re-doing a coated panel that has been the unfortunate victim of a 'defect incursion', i.e. "Aunt Edna ran a shopping cart into my fender at the local Piggly-Wiggly and left a scratch"?


Haha exactly! Apparently it sets very hard and can be hard to 're correct the paint

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## budgetplan1 (Aug 10, 2016)

Eturty said:


> Haha exactly! Apparently it sets very hard and can be hard to 're correct the paint
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Nah...its like any other coating. Medium polish w cutting pad will remove it fine. Something like Menzerna 2400.

I have heard a few claim that Enrei, their 2 part, top of the line pro-only coating is extremely tenacious but can't say for sure.

Miyabi, ISM, Zipang...no issues.


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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

budgetplan1 said:


> Nah...its like any other coating. Medium polish w cutting pad will remove it fine. Something like Menzerna 2400.
> 
> I have heard a few claim that Enrei, their 2 part, top of the line pro-only coating is extremely tenacious but can't say for sure.
> 
> Miyabi, ISM, Zipang...no issues.


Okay I'm sold, was going to buy soon my gearbox lost reverse so now o have a 1900quid bill so may have to wait a couple months, hope to update soon

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## Carscope (Sep 4, 2019)

budgetplan1 said:


> Nah...its like any other coating. Medium polish w cutting pad will remove it fine. Something like Menzerna 2400.
> 
> I have heard a few claim that Enrei, their 2 part, top of the line pro-only coating is extremely tenacious but can't say for sure.
> 
> Miyabi, ISM, Zipang...no issues.


As a second to this did you ever use the kamikase pads and polishes?


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