# fraud warning



## -tom- (Jan 27, 2009)

Afternoon everyone,

Thought i would bring this to the site as its a new scam going around. I work for a high street bank and customers r getting phone calls from a company by the name of BCB (bank charges back in to your account within a week), claiming to be working on be half of the banks.

This is were it gets a bit dodge. Bank charges are going throw a test case in the high court at presant to see if they are fair or not. This test case is been put on hold untill a rulling is made which could take many months. People are getting called from the above company and been asked to ocomfirm basic details like name address and dob and mothers maden name to comfirm secuirty. 

Then they go down a speal to say we can get u back £xx amount back within 7 days. But to get the money they require a deposits off around £50/£100 legal fees. they then ask you for your full card number across the front know as the pan and the exp and 3 digs off the back off your card (with this info you are dead in the water). This is so they can take the £50/£100 and u will get this back when they return the moneys. But instead of taking this they r hitting you taking as much as they can and u never hear off them again. we have seen people loose between £300 to just short off £4000 so far. 

So i dont want to teach people to suck eggs but dont hand over your details unless you are happy and if need call your bank to comfirm the phone call and use the number you have on your credit or debit card.

If u r a victium off fraud report it to your bank and tell them to report the card as stolen this blocks the account totaly and get on to there fraud depotment.
Hope this helps guys 

Take it easy 

Tom


----------



## -tom- (Jan 27, 2009)

when i get further ones i will also post in here so the dw comunity is aware 

Q. What’s the result of the test case so far?

A. In April 08 the High Court judge, Mr Justice Andrew Smith, confirmed what bank charges campaigners have been arguing for two years; that consumer contract regulations, known as ‘Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations’ DO apply to bank charges, meaning 'fairness' counts.

The banks were given leave to appeal this decision to the Court of Appeal, who confirmed on 26 February 2009 that it agreed with the High Court’s decision; a massive step for reclaimers, meaning the sorry position is close to ending. 

Though sadly it’s not the end of the line yet. So far the courts have been deciding whether the laws covering fairness apply to bank charges, not whether they ARE unfair. Campaigners have always said that a £35 charge for going a couple of quid beyond an overdraft limit isn’t proportionate.

While the banks have tried to argue that it is, their real hope has been the argument that ‘charges don’t have to be proportionate, as those laws don’t apply’. What the court has now decided throws that argument out of the window; bank charges should be fair.

Interestingly the Court of Appeal also decided NOT to grant the banks permission to appeal to the House of Lords (the next highest court), although the banks have since said they will try and appeal the decision directly. 

Now all that's left is for the OFT to decide whether charges are unfair and to see if the House of Lords allows the banks' appeal, but it’s to be hoped their Lordships will listen to the strong opinion from the Court of Appeal that this is not the best way forward.

Q. What is the OFT doing now?

A. The OFT is deciding whether it thinks charges are actually unfair. It confirmed after the Feb 09 Court of Appeal judgment:

“We’re now analysing the implications of the judgment for our ongoing investigation and have already written to the banks with provisional view on the fairness, setting out concerns that they may be unfair. We expect to reach a final decision on fairness later this year.” 
This is strong evidence it will come back saying charges are unfair, and therefore try and agree a remedy with the banks. If they don't come to an agreement though, sadly it will be back to court.

Although the OFT’s investigation into the fairness of bank accounts started in Sep 06, it has yet to reach a decision on the fairness of charges. In Aug 08 it wrote to banks with its provisional views on their fairness yet we’ve still not been told the details. 

In the meantime it has released a report into personal current accounts which says the market is ‘not working well for consumers’. Although it does not specifically effect the test case the report gives us more of an idea on what the OFT is thinking, and concretes the fact that there's no competition on charges; people are unaware of what they're paying, the fees bear little relation to the cost, and society's poorest are subsidising the richest.

Q. What will happen to the hold on reclaiming? 

A. When the test case was announced in July 07, the regulator, the FSA, issued a one year waiver to the banks, which placed a hold on all reclaiming, allowing neither the banks nor the Ombudsman had to deal with claims.

After the year ended, the FSA twice extended it, for six months at a time, so now it's due to expire on the 26 July 2009. The FSA has said it will continue to monitor the situation but all cases will remain on hold for the moment.

In August 07 the courts also decided to hold cases and the Court of Appeal judges have said all county court cases should be left on hold until we've heard from both the OFT on whether it thinks the charges are unfair, and whether the House of Lords is going to allow the banks to appeal the latest decision.

MoneySavingExpert.com’s view on the hold: 

"The recent extension to the waiver means the bank charges hold has now been in place for a year and a half with still no end in sight. The FSA's decision is a further kick in the teeth for the army of 100,000s of consumers still waiting to claim back unfair charges. It looks like the banks' delaying tactics are working."

"It means people are still sitting on their hands, unable to try to reclaim money which was taken from their accounts without their permission, while the banks continue to make £100s of millions in charges and take bailouts from the government."

"Paying out to consumers now could free up cash for spending to boost the economy, but how long are people expected to wait? A further year? Until it goes all the way to the European Court? With the economic slowdown, the credit crunch, inflation and house prices falling, this hold adds to the woes."

Q. If it's still on hold, why put in a reclaim now? 

A. It’s important to get a marker in as soon as possible, and there are three distinct reasons for this… 

i. Get in the queue

It’s estimated there are already over 750,000 with cases on hold, so when the floodgates do open, the further ahead you are in the queue, the sooner your claim will be processed. 

ii. Things change 

The law is a strange thing. At the moment there is a precedent binding on lower courts that ‘bank charges are covered by unfair contractual terms rules’. The leave to appeal does not impact this, the law is the law. 

So hopefully, the hold will be lifted soon, and people may be able to try to reclaim again. Yet in the future, there is a chance things will change, a subsequent appeal could overturn a ruling; and as the decision is currently in reclaimers favour you should get your claim in now.

iii. Claim back as far as possible

The statute of limitations says you can only make a court claim for six years' worth of charges in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, five in Scotland. Therefore, on the surface there’s a worry that if you don’t get your marker in sooner, and you’ve got old charges to reclaim, you will miss the opportunity. 

Yet the regulator, the FSA, has said it ‘stopped the clock’ on 27 July 2007, when it first put the hold on reclaiming and that this has frozen any ‘time bars’. This doesn’t have any power in the court, but the banks have agreed not to complain about time limits if a case goes to court, and judges in England, Wales or Northern Ireland shouldn’t consider the issue unless the banks request it (it’s slightly different in Scotland as judges there can consider time issues themselves). 

Yet as this situation has never happened before, we do not know how it will pan out in court. As such, while hopefully things will run smoothly and this won’t be an issue, for belt and braces safety, assume the clock is still ticking. 

Plus a final note from me. If you’re reading this now, you’re interested in the issue and feeling in the mood to act, often with anything to do with money, apathy can play a part, so to throw in an old cliché… strike when the iron’s hot… and while you’re in the mood! It only takes a few minutes to start a reclaim, and then it's just a question of sitting back to twiddle your thumbs, so there's nothing to lose.

To put your claim in read the step-by-step Bank Charges Reclaiming guide, including free template letters.

Q. Where can I see information on the test case myself?

A. The OFT should regularly update its Personal Current Accounts page with details of its investigation and the test case progress. You can also read each of the judgmentsalthough, as they are very long, the following is the conclusion of the Feb 09 judgment:

"For these reasons we agree with the judge that an assessment of the fairness of the Relevant Charges does not relate (a) to the definition of the main subject matter of the contract or (b) to the adequacy of the price or remuneration, as against the goods or services supplied in exchange, within the meaning of regulation 6(2) of the 1999 Regulations. It follows that such an assessment is not precluded by the 1999 Regulations and that the appeal must be dismissed."


----------



## andy monty (Dec 29, 2007)

We had that recently Boy hell did they get some duff info from me :wave:


----------



## -tom- (Jan 27, 2009)

andy monty said:


> We had that recently Boy hell did they get some duff info from me :wave:


Thats one way of dealing with them just get rid of them asap:thumb:

tom


----------



## Lloyd71 (Aug 21, 2008)

Not that I'd have given away my details anyway, but thanks for this. I'll give 'em a roasting if they call me. :thumb:


----------



## -tom- (Jan 27, 2009)

Lloyd71 said:


> Not that I'd have given away my details anyway, but thanks for this. I'll give 'em a roasting if they call me. :thumb:


its ok bud its better to be on the safe side then to going steaming in, its shocking how many people will fall for this scam :wall:

tom


----------



## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

I never get any calls like that at home and can't give abuse on the works phones, saying that though in a sense serves some folk right if they get caught up in it, as I don't work for a bank but don't begrudge paying charges if I go overdrawn, charges are made clear in the T&Cs so why want to claim them back, it seems these scammers are cashing in on peoples greed.


----------



## fiestaguy (Jan 17, 2009)

Too true, it's easy to say this is obviously a scam but you see it all the time, elderly couples naively handing over details and the scam artists releaving them of their life savings. These scammers should be shot, thanks for the heads up:thumb:


----------



## -tom- (Jan 27, 2009)

Avanti said:


> I never get any calls like that at home and can't give abuse on the works phones, saying that though in a sense serves some folk right if they get caught up in it, as I don't work for a bank but don't begrudge paying charges if I go overdrawn, charges are made clear in the T&Cs so why want to claim them back, it seems these scammers are cashing in on peoples greed.


U r right bud it is clear in the t & c but i must get at least 6 or 7 calls a day about thease charges each call can take up to half an hour to resolve. At the end of the day the banks arent refunding any chages unless its a bank error.



fiestaguy said:


> Too true, it's easy to say this is obviously a scam but you see it all the time, elderly couples naively handing over details and the scam artists releaving them of their life savings. These scammers should be shot, thanks for the heads up:thumb:


We are finding thease are becoming more and more common espicaly with the curant situation in the markets. People are wanting to make a quick buck but screwing people.

On the back of this folkes when paying for goods on the net just follow the following.

use sites like pay pal and google checkout
make sure it has the pad lock in the bottom off the screen 
all so make sure the http part of the address is https, which means its secure.:thumb: not teacing people how to suck eggs.

Tom


----------

