# 3M ultrafinia vs Scholl concept S3



## charlie20vt (May 8, 2011)

*3M ultrafinia vs Scholl concept S30*

Hi people what's better finish out of 3M ultrafinia and Scholl concept S3 I'm using on vag paint.

Thanks
Charlie


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## D.Taylor R26 (Feb 5, 2012)

Scholl S3 from personal use. Best polishes around. Great working time and superb correcting ability. 

Dave


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## toni (Oct 30, 2005)

S3 or S30?  S3 is a compound, while S30 is the finishing polish.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Even S40?


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## seanl (Feb 17, 2012)

Not used the Scholl finishing polishes, but I *LOVE* ultrafina!

Its an extremely easy polish to work with, and never dries out so no pad hopping, and gives a great finish imo.


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## MidlandsCarCare (Feb 18, 2006)

S20 Blue is probably a closer comparison to Ultrafina.


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## MK1Campaign (Mar 27, 2007)

Can't stand Ultrafina. Way too greasy.


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

2 totally different beasts. S40 would be comparative with ultrafina though S40 has a touch more bite where as ultrafina is a far better finishing and jewelling polish.


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## steve from wath (Dec 12, 2008)

i generally finish off with ultrafina on a black farecla pad

tried s40 but too dry etc for jewelling and burnishing the paint imo and has a longer work time


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## tzotzo (Nov 15, 2009)

I wouldn't class ultrafina as a polish.
Its more like a glaze


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## EliteCarCare (Aug 25, 2006)

Ultrafina is comparable to S40, although I would say Ultrafina has a longer working time due to the filler-rich, oily nature.

I assume the OP means S30 as S3 is a heavy cut compound. 

Alex


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

I was under the impression, certainly also based on my experiences using Ultrafina SE, that it does not contain fillers. It is indeed very oily and on short sets these oils can mask marring (as it can with a variety of polishes), but on correct set lenghts where the abrasives are well worked and there is nothing to mask, then the product will finish down perfectly. IPA and Panelwipe wipedows seem to confirm for me that SE does not seem to have any *dedicated* fillers in it, just the oils that have the potential to mask.

Also, a glaze in my eyes is a product which is non-abrasive - simply an oily product designed to enhance the wettness of the paint. To that end, Ultrafina is far from a glaze, as it is a light abrasive finishing polish that uses the oils as a lubricant.


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## tzotzo (Nov 15, 2009)

please define dedicated fillers Dave.

Well, Ez-creme has light abrasives (according to its label), and its a glaze on most peoples eyes in here.

I don't want to confront your experience, but 3M range is aimed to the bodyshop specialists, which aren't exactly detailers. I mean panel wipe, IPA wipedown, post polishing inspection, aren't included on their process.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

tzotzo said:


> please define dedicated fillers Dave.
> 
> Well, Ez-creme has light abrasives (according to its label), and its a glaze on most peoples eyes in here.
> 
> I don't want to confront your experience, but 3M range is aimed to the bodyshop specialists, which aren't exactly detailers. I mean panel wipe, IPA wipedown, post polishing inspection, aren't included on their process.


Dedicated fillers in a product are fillers that are designed to fill marring and hide marks on the paint, as opposed to oils which are there to serve a different purpose on well prepped paint... Ultrafina is very oily, but to give it the work time to work the abrasives in the polish, not to wetten the finish. Contrary to a pure glaze such as Megs #7 which has no abrasives at all and would be defined (in my eyes) as a pure glaze, it is simply oils to wetten the finish.

EZ Creme for me is not a pure glaze - it has cleansers in it as well and also lays down a sealant layer. It is much more akin to an AIO. SRP, very similarly, has oils in it to enhance the look as well as dedicated fillers to mask marring and lays down a layer of sealant.

Also, you're very likely to find panel wipe in a bodyshop - that's where we got ours when I was detailing. Just because it is a bodyshop which does painting does not mean they don't care about the finish... some let cars out overed in holograms, others care about what they put out.


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## tzotzo (Nov 15, 2009)

Well panel wipe has been used for years in body shops and painting booths,before being introduced for detailing purposes. Not for removing polishing oils but for cleaning up panels prior to painting. The norm is that body shops don't really bother with post painting refinement, although I have to admit there are some exceptions than confirm the rule.

As for the so called "fillers", in my point of view, there is no difference on the product that contains them. Whether its a wax, aio or a polish, its the final result that should be defining the product , and not how they are filling.

From my understanding, this argument comes down to each individuals perspective. You say Ultrafina is a polish, I say its a glaze, but we both agree it has filling abilities. If you choose not to do an IPA wipe down you have a very nice filling product(name it how ever you like).



And to be back on track again, I am not sure ultrafina has great swirl removing abilities, no matter of the working time based on my experience on various finishing pads included the 3M ones, both on rotary and DA machines.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

tzotzo said:


> Well panel wipe has been used for years in body shops and painting booths,before being introduced for detailing purposes. Not for removing polishing oils but for cleaning up panels prior to painting. The norm is that body shops don't really bother with post painting refinement, although I have to admit there are some exceptions than confirm the rule.
> 
> As for the so called "fillers", in my point of view, there is no difference on the product that contains them. Whether its a wax, aio or a polish, its the final result that should be defining the product , and not how they are filling.
> 
> ...


No, this is where we do not agree... Ultrafina has the ability to *mask* with oils, but not to *fill in*. This is my perspective, as highlighted above.

It is my experience of Ultrafina SE that when used correctly, keeping the work area small and the work time circa 4 - 5 mins it will correct on a par with a standard set of Megs #205 on a polishing pad or Menz 106FA. Not a big correction polish, but still capable of decent levels of correction and indeed on softer paints, easily capable of general swirl removal and finishing. But then it all comes down to how the product is being used.

To me, while the end result of some products is indeed what is important, how they achieve this is important too to ensure what you are using is compatible with other products that you are using, or the products is achieving the end result in the way that you want it too.. ie, you would use a filler-heavy AIO with no abrasives if you want to mask swirls with no paint removal but a finishing polish to remove light swirls by removing paint. The difference is key, though the end result of swirls no longer on the paint is the same.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

What is a 'filler' anyway? 

I see people state that oily polishes fill, and oil glazes are 'filler heavy' all the time (even you Dave), but aren't these just simply oils masking haze and light swirls? Now someone says fill, another guy says mask, WTF is the difference? 

The best I can come up with is kaolin clay, both use as cleaner and filler.


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## Steampunk (Aug 11, 2011)

-Raven- said:


> What is a 'filler' anyway?
> 
> I see people state that oily polishes fill, and oil glazes are 'filler heavy' all the time (even you Dave), but aren't these just simply oils masking haze and light swirls? Now someone says fill, another guy says mask, WTF is the difference?
> 
> The best I can come up with is kaolin clay, both use as cleaner and filler.


Kaolin clay, silicone resin, and certain film-forming polymers can all create a filling effect. Mineral based oils can do as well, but these are less stable, and are more likely to drop out over time. This is at least how I would differentiate filling and masking...

Steampunk


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

-Raven- said:


> What is a 'filler' anyway?
> 
> I see people state that oily polishes fill, and oil glazes are 'filler heavy' all the time (even you Dave), but aren't these just simply oils masking haze and light swirls? Now someone says fill, another guy says mask, WTF is the difference?
> 
> The best I can come up with is kaolin clay, both use as cleaner and filler.


Indeed, kaolin is a good example of a filler and is found in some waterless wash products (I wonder why...) ... Some glazes are indeed "filler heavy", but then they are not "pure glazes" like, for example, Meguiars #7. It comes down, as stated above, to interpretation but it is important to be clear about the differences to understand what different products have to offer. #7, a pure glaze, would not be described by me as filler heavy.

Fill, to me, is a product which can "get in" to the marring which is there, where as mask is a products which flows across - it is hard to put into words, and yes the visible effects are similar, but there is in my mind a difference between how kaolin fills and mark and oils mask them.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

To add to what steampunk above has said, this would explain why a pure glaze such as #7 may lightly mask marks but a filler-heavy glaze such as RMG (which, granted, is very oily but it is not just oily, it has fillers too) will give a bigger effect as it has been designed to handle marring. #7 has simply been designed to enhance the wettness on the finish (and it achieves this under some circumstances on some finishes  ).


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## DJ X-Ray (Sep 2, 2012)

I used to use UF quite a bit and imo if you don't work it enough/break the abrasives down it could "fill" but it doesn't contain dedicated fillers it's just very oily.I like to spend a long long time jewelling and it's always had the desired effect for me plus everthing gets panel wiped with me before any form of lsp sees the light of day.S40 is my Finishing polish of choice now though


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## Beau Technique (Jun 21, 2010)

Like with many polishes and even LSP's, all can offer a filling option for certain circumstances. Certain polishes if not worked hard enough can aid in filling slight faults. Flip side is that certain polishes can also offer a filling ability when overworked or as I call it, over cooking the carrier's. LSP's can offer filling also as Kelly @ KDS has proven with certain LSP's in the past. Dedicated glazes like blackmax or blackhole for instance have zero cut but do have cleaners. Used as a glaze work well. Used as a finishing polish is hiding issues ergo the filling ability. Back on topic dudes:thumb:


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## waxy (Feb 27, 2006)

Britemax Blackmax does contain micro abrasives,it's much more like Lime prime.Meguiar's M07 utilises Glycerin,and Diatomaceous Earth(as do M03,M05,M81)Glycerin to produce a wet look effect,and Diatomaceous earth as both a filler,and very light burnishing agent.I remember when this product was called Sealer and reseal Glaze,and was used almost exclusively to final polish,or 'rub out' by hand pre clear coat, acrylic Lacquer finishes,although being before the advent of microfibre,a lot of the burnishing effect would have been from using a soft terry cloth to apply the product initially.


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## 3R PROJECT (Jul 14, 2012)

Let us start with how did 3M intended the polish to work . Large area with loads of product on the pad and 1800 rpm for dark colors to be handled in short time . Thus to provide a lovely finish to the mess you have made with the previous 2 steps on a black finish . Mess to perfectionist , typical stuff to average folk . So those tiny little imperfections that you have planted all that lovely stuff ultrafina carries have now been filled . Panel wipe will not touch them . Some standard thinner yes . I am afraid people overestimate the power of silicon remover (panel wipe ) and what is its purpose . Is it great at what it does ? heck ya ! Lovely gloss , great working time , a little bit of cut and a little bit of masking (filling). If your work is already perfect before it why not use it. All finishing polishes come out from the factory for dark finishes only and they all mask. There is a reason why they are made for that specific reason and also why some have dry and some have a more oily finish . Searching for the perfect base for your wax there is no reason not to opt for the oily one . Satisfying the quest for perfect paint ... I am afraid no paint has an oily natural finish no matter how it was sprayed .


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