# Advice for cutting out runs & slight orange peel in New 2k high solid paint



## grahams81

Hi Everybody,

I'm currently in the process of painting my long standing project. It's a mk1 Seat Leon which i've been working on for a couple of years now.

So i've converted it to 4wd and in the process ruined the paintwork so i decided to paint it myself in the garage. I've done paintwork in the past on our lasses VFR400... but nothing of this scale.

So i used plastic sheeting to cover the rafters in the garage and installed a 12" fan, installed a load of lights.

I decided to use a small SATA Minijet 4 SR gun which i bought years ago whilst doing the motorbike - it's a lovely gun with excellent atomisation and creates hardly any overspray so it's ideal for a garage spray job. Although because of it's size it can't handle a very wide fan so it takes a while.










I used a 1.2mm SR tip for the topcoat and a 1.4mm tip for the primer.

I'm using Lechler paints / materials after having very good success with the wife's bike (painted in BSB / Clear) -










What i learnt when i painted the bike was that the clear coat was a bit of a ball-ache in the garage - it took ages to dry and in that time a lot of dust etc settled in the paint.
So this time round i decided i wanted to use a solid colour 2k topcoat that could be cut / polished easily etc without the need for clear coat.

After much searching and research i went with Lechler MAC1 Macrofan HS Topcoat in Porsche GT3RS Orange.... i shouldn't loose it in the car park 

So i basically stripped the car / and painted one side of the shell at a time -

Close-up -










Overall -


















I'm really happy with finish of the shell, although i struck the gun on the garage door whilst i was painting the very back of the car and got a lovely run 










So that was months ago and i was hoping the paintwork would go really hard, unfortunately it hasn't - if you press your thumbnail into the paint hard, you can leave a slight mark... and the run feels a little soft still. I can't scratch the paint work with my fingernail so it's not too bad and tbh it's got harder and harder over the 6 months. 
I just wanted to add i mixed the paint up to the spec sheet, with maybe 10% extra thinners. It was painted in the winter mind with temperatures around the 15 degree mark inside the garage.

So what i really want to do is flatten the run with wet & dry 1200-2000 plenty of water then polish it back up. 
If it goes well i would like to wetsand the whole car and polish it up....

So thats where i need the help !!!

So what would be the best polisher / products to use on this job ??? i've read DA type are less aggressive and better for the beginner but will a DA type be upto the job ?

Does anybody have any experience with 2k clear coat less detailing ???

I'm guessing if the paints a little on the soft side i'm gonna have to be very careful ??

Thanks in advance for any information,

Cheers,
Graham.


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## toddy23

Shouldn't really be still soft after that long what hardener did you use,if the weather outside gets really hot put it out side in the sun all day to see if it bakes it


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## grahams81

toddy23 said:


> Shouldn't really be still soft after that long what hardener did you use,if the weather outside gets really hot put it out side in the sun all day to see if it bakes it


Thanks for the reply, i used Lechler 327 Speedy Hardener with Lechler 740 Speedy thinners, so i stayed with in the spec sheet.

The shell is currently in a massive man tent on my drive, during the hot weather it was really hot in the tent.... Probably not as good as being in direct sunlight like.... I'll try and drag it out into the sun for a day.

I painted 2 doors yesterday so it'll be intresting to see if they harden fully.... It could of been the temperature in the winter (around 15-16degrees) or the thickness of the coats i put on.

Hopefully it will still cut and polish back up


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## Benn

With it air drying it will take a little longer to dry fully and hardern.
Why the 10% extra thinners?

That run isn't to bad at all. I'd try 1500 over it first, on a hardish foam pad, then 2000 over that.
The orange peel isn't that bad, infact its very good for doing it your self. I'd say 1500 and 2k again and you'll get a fantastic finish on that.
I used 1500 2k and 3k on mine using 3M fast cut compound to polish back and it came up beautiful.


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## craigeh123

Awesome job on the tyga'd vfr and the seat . Wana paint my car lol


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## mgkars

When I've had runs before I've sanded with 800 gritt, then upto 1500 then onto the discs, for 3000, 6000


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## PootleFlump

That looks like a great job. Depending on how much you put down I'd be tempted to start on 800 to take the run out and go up from there but go easy.


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## steveo3002

id slice the run off with a new razor blade , cut it low as you dare , then 1200 it


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## grahams81

Benn said:


> With it air drying it will take a little longer to dry fully and hardern.
> Why the 10% extra thinners?
> 
> That run isn't to bad at all. I'd try 1500 over it first, on a hardish foam pad, then 2000 over that.
> The orange peel isn't that bad, infact its very good for doing it your self. I'd say 1500 and 2k again and you'll get a fantastic finish on that.
> I used 1500 2k and 3k on mine using 3M fast cut compound to polish back and it came up beautiful.


Great info & thanks for the advice - i used the extra thinners to reduce the viscosity and help with the orange peel effect as originally i felt the paint was a little thick for the size nozzle / gun... not atomising well enough & then not flowing back into one.



craigeh123 said:


> Awesome job on the tyga'd vfr and the seat . Wana paint my car lol


Cheers bud, after this mammoth task i think i'll be hanging up the spray gear for good... i'm looking forward to starting to fabricate the exhaust / finish off the manifold for the turbo -












mgkars said:


> When I've had runs before I've sanded with 800 gritt, then upto 1500 then onto the discs, for 3000, 6000





PootleFlump said:


> That looks like a great job. Depending on how much you put down I'd be tempted to start on 800 to take the run out and go up from there but go easy.





steveo3002 said:


> id slice the run off with a new razor blade , cut it low as you dare , then 1200 it


Cheers Guys, so i just need to order up a polisher and i'm gonna give it a go - good tip with the razor blade, i've done this before with the wife's bike but i scraped / dragged it rather than trying to cut forward with it..... needs a steady hand but i'll give it a go.

I'll update once i've bought a machine and gave it a go, any suggestions ??? thinking a little one to help with sills and awkward areas.

Cheers Guys & Thanks for all the comments & tips,

Graham.


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## Aaran

get a large plain rotary. dont mess about with DA polishers unless you want to be polishing for weeks.

compounds i like farecla, the g3 on their buffing pad will remove p1500 or 2000 easy. finish that of with g10 again on their foam head (its messy as you dampen the pads with water first so you tend to get a fair bit of splatter)

i would say stay away from sanding edges to start with until you get used to the work rate.

other compounds that are good are the G techniqie P1 with their wood pads, very good at removing that grade sanding marks.

3m do a finesse it range, again very good.

megs 105 cutting compound is also up there with them. 

tbh which ever you buy invest in their own buffing heads (be it foam or wool) and get a few. go see some of my build threads for wetsanding pics, got loads.

just use panel wipe or IPA to give it a good wipe down afterwards because the oils in all the compounds will fill some sanding marks and they will crop up once the lube has gone a month down the line


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## grahams81

Thanks for the excellent info. Gonna get some stuff ordered this week and have a bash at the weekend...... After plenty of video / guide reading.

Cheers Again.


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## craigeh123

Yeah defo more pics that seat project looks amazing


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## Benn

grahams81 said:


> Great info & thanks for the advice - i used the extra thinners to reduce the viscosity and help with the orange peel effect as originally i felt the paint was a little thick for the size nozzle / gun... not atomising well enough & then not flowing back into one.
> 
> Graham.


Edit, just reread, What size tip where you using? Has it dired now?


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## composite

Did you stick to manufacturers specifications for mixing the paint? Sounds to me it hasn't been mixed correctly if it hasn't cured,you are ideally needing an infrared heater to cure the paint from inwards outwards,putting it out in the sun while its soft is a recipe for disaster,1 gust of wind will glue contaminants to it!


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## grahams81

craigeh123 said:


> Yeah defo more pics that seat project looks amazing


Cheers mate, dunno if i can start a build thread on here ??



Benn said:


> Edit, just reread, What size tip where you using? Has it dired now?


I used a 1.2mm, tried a 1.4mm but it seems to spray a bit orange peely, so reverted back to 1.2mm.
It's strange, this is my first paint job using a high solid single stage 2k, i'm not sure how hard the paint is suppose to be. If i use my finger nail and press in hard into the paint then there is a tiny slight mark left, i can't scratch it with my nails.
The run in question feels a little rubbery. 
I may have to try and take some pics.



composite said:


> Did you stick to manufacturers specifications for mixing the paint? Sounds to me it hasn't been mixed correctly if it hasn't cured,you are ideally needing an infrared heater to cure the paint from inwards outwards,putting it out in the sun while its soft is a recipe for disaster,1 gust of wind will glue contaminants to it!


I did stick to the spec sheet that i downloaded for the paint - Lechler Mac 1.... I'm away from home now but i believe it was 1000 paint - 500 hardener - 100 to 300 Thinners. I did use a little extra thinners to help it flow better, didn't think much of it at the time but it may have caused the issue.... can't remember the codes for the hardener i think i may have mentioned them in an earlier post.
I may have been a bit eager with the coat thickness which might be my problem, or the time between coats.... The spec sheet said 10-15mins which i tried to stick to.... The paint was still tacky when the next coat was applied. 3 coats in total.
It may have been low temperatures, i painted the shell in winter and the garage was around 15 degrees - not ideal.

I bought an infrared heater form machine mart - a stand up type with 2 elements..... I did try leaving this on for a while pointing at the panels from 1.5-2.0 meters away, but it didn't seem to make much difference.

Like i've said above the paint is markable with a bit of pressure from a fingernail, i take it should be rock hard ?

I painted the doors from the car on Saturday, the temperature was around 25 degrees so i'll check the hardness of the paint when i get home at the weekend and update.

Thanks guys.


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## Benn

grahams81 said:


> I used a 1.2mm, tried a 1.4mm but it seems to spray a bit orange peely, so reverted back to 1.2mm.
> It's strange, this is my first paint job using a high solid single stage 2k, i'm not sure how hard the paint is suppose to be. If i use my finger nail and press in hard into the paint then there is a tiny slight mark left, i can't scratch it with my nails.
> The run in question feels a little rubbery.
> I may have to try and take some pics.


They are quite small ends, i learnt with a 1.9 and think alot of people use that size.
But by now it should be rock hard like base and clear. It shouldn't still be soft,
Hope the doors are different.


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## Aaran

get it in the sun for a week or so will harden it right off. the sun does what a short wave infrared does (heats the paint from the inside and outside) and being thats its pretty much stripped you would be better letting the car show up any issues with it as it is rather than it being near complete and back together and requiring stripping if you had to repaint.

just be warned a long wave infrared (like you get for garden patio heaters) only dry and heat the first thing they touch, they do NOT heat through things like a short wave and if the cook the outer layer of paint before the base you risk trapping solvents and other shizz in it which can lead to solvent pop and other issues


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## grahams81

Hhhmm intresting about the short / longwave infrared.

I'll try and pull the shell out the tent at the weekend a see how it goes. 

Thanks guys.


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## Aaran

yua its generally the reason why a body-shop infra red heater is about 4x the cost of a decent garden one


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