# A real difference or snobbery?



## RCZ (Aug 13, 2010)

Being a relative newcomer to this lark, I've noticed the difference between the commonly available products and those used by the majority of DW members.

Years ago, I remember a guy I know who has a bodyshop repair garage said that there's a lot of stuff & nonsense about beading and that all you need is traditional Simoniz (£7.99 from Halfords).

Although I've never tried the stuff, I suggested it on a thread where someone was looking for the best combination of durability and price. My suggestion didn't even merit a response.

I've just looked at the Auto Express Product Awards and look what comes out as the best exterior polish/wax.

So it got me wondering what the truth is? I've spent much more than £7.99 of late on HD Wax, Addiction, Jett etc....but can we do just as good a job, get down to Halfords and save ourselves a lot of beer tokens. I don't think Simoniz is a big advertiser, so what has Auto Express used to make their decisions? Do they just nip down Halfords and buy the 6 or 7 brands on sale there?

I may be slightly playing devil's advocate...but I think it merits discussion. What REALLY is the difference between this £7.99 wax and other 'DW approved' ones in higher price brackets eg Meguiars or AG HD Wax...or even boutique waxes!!


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## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

If it's just the finished look, you'll get 99% of your desired look from prep work, and about 1% from your chosen LSP.

If it's durability you're after, that's a different matter.

In essence though, yes, you can save A LOT of cash by preparing your paint right, and then maintaining it with proper technique.


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## Maggi200 (Aug 21, 2009)

Why do people buy bmw's whilst a mondeo does a very good job for a lot less cash? 

I've got loads of cheaper waxes, and more boutwique waxes. ANd I always find myself reaching for the boutiques because they offer much more. The packaging, the smells, the ease of use and texture, the fact I can tell myself what I'm doing is better than bob across the road (his name actually is bob) with his tub of megs step 3. 

In terms of looks and performance I agree you could argue there's no difference usually. But I still don't ENJOY using the cheaper ones for the reasons above. 

That's how i justify it to myself!


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## jay_bmw (Jan 28, 2010)

to be honset mate i would never spend 100 quid on a pot of wax. i bought poorboys natty's blue paste wax because its easy to apply/buff off and was just over a tenner, it got good reviews, either that or something like collinite 476s for its durability is perfectly acceptable in my eyes, some waxes promise to stay beading a lot longer than others etc, but to be honest i don't mind re-applying wax say 1ce a month so its horses for courses really.


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## alan_n (Apr 14, 2008)

I couldnt bring myself to spending more than £30 on a tub of wax either to be honest.


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## Posambique (Oct 20, 2010)

I've used Simoniz a few times, but sadly can't compare it to many of these "better" products, because haven't used them. Now I have Sonax Carnauba Care.

I do think that Simoniz does leave a good shine for it's price,
and it seems to be the only thing that works on my dad's 1965 Wartburg 311 DeLuxe.
(I still haven't tried the Sonax though).

BUT, Simoniz is insanely hard to work.
My dad putting it on, and me wiping it off just secons after,
and the residue still seems to stick to the paint like...
I'm now a little wiser so I know that my dad applied layers too thick,
so I don't know how much that affects.

What I do know is that Sonax Carnauba Care 
(which isn't even one of these products that people rave about)
is still hundred times easier to apply and works great too (at least on other cars).


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

To be quite frank you'll find you can get just as good performance with cheaper waxes.Most durable wax Ive used is a cheap wax,lasts just as long as the Collinite 476 Ive got and it was a quid.Granted its alittle tough to use but why should things be easy.Half of the fun is the process so if things take alittle longer using a less easy to use product whats the problem.


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## Dixondmn (Oct 12, 2007)

Different LSPs give a vast difference of finish. I find many of the autoglym or megs off the shelf products very good, but on my particular vehicle in that particular colour, nothing i've tried can beat Victoria concourse wax for depth and wet look.

I'm loathed to try another wax until i've finished the pot i'm currently using.


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## Hou (Sep 20, 2010)

I agree with many of the comments here, I prefer to spend more on the prep and top with a £15 tub of Harly, which is a fantastic wax, that gives good value for money and lasts forever (my layer I added in august to the MR2 and the Mrs's aygo is still going strong) but for some reason not many on here use!


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## Magic Detail (Jul 25, 2010)

These waxes are designed for an industry in which "time is money". Why apply a cheap wax that is difficult to apply and tricky to buff off, when you could buy a more expensive tub that is easy to apply and buff off? To the DIY guy, you'd likely go with the cheap one if you were only interested in cost, but to someone who does this for a living and would go through that tub of wax in a couple of months doing many many cars, then in the long run they would likely save themselves a fortune in time despite the higher initial outlay.. 

There's some really pricey waxes out there, some into the thousands - but think of it this way: 

If one pot @ £1k will do 40 cars, and you were doing this for a living whereby you can upsell the wax, even if only £50 per application over your standard wax, that's only 20 cars before you break even - the next 20 you do nets you £1k profit just on materials!

Think outside the box guys.


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## jay_bmw (Jan 28, 2010)

Yeah but if you charge 50 quid an application for a wax that costs just 50 quid initially *i'd imagine a 50 quid wax to be quite easy to buff off and have durability

then after 1 car your at break even point - thus profit for the further 39 cars that the pot should last- but hey, who am i to say, i'm not a professional detailer after all.


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## Magic Detail (Jul 25, 2010)

You'd struggle to justify charging that, unless you were a marketing guru or just prepared to mislead a customer.


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

expensive waxes have a different ingredients to them whether it be higher content of carnabu (spelling) this would mean a higher cost but also better looks. I use SN which is a mid range wax i guess. it also for detailers who are pros their customers pay hundreds to have their car detailed would you be happy if you paid that and then got told they had slapped a 7.99 wax on top? i do believe you get what you pay for nd i also think ease of use has a massive factor too when carrying out a detail.

i think there is a difference, granted as mentioned its all in the prep but if you had just slaved away for 5-6 hour then to slap a cheap wax which may dull the 5-6 hours work i wouldnt be to happy. why by heinz when lidl sell it much cheaper the same could be said for hundreds of things. to some its a hobby and interest when spending more on a higher class wax gives satisfaction to them and makes em happy.


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## Steve valentine (Aug 7, 2010)

One word sums it up nicely.

'Snobbery'

It exists in EVERY discipline.


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

just buy a nice sealant which out performs all the waxes on the market, job done :lol:


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## jay_bmw (Jan 28, 2010)

Ok fair enough, if your paying a few hundred pounds to have your car detailed, then yeah- an expensive wax makes sense i suppose.

I think for the avarage home detailer (like myself) i don't mind re-applying and trying different waxes - hence why i wouldn't spend a lot on one.


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## alan hanson (May 21, 2008)

snobbery? are the top end detailers who use expensive waxes when doing the job for a living all year round stupid times/conditions snobbery? this is fast becoming pointless if your happy using cheaper products fair enough thats detailing all down to personal choice but no one can refer to anyone as something for their choice.

you'll most likely find though spending more a higher class wax will out last and perform a cheaper wax, yeh you say you dont mind re applying but you wont have to saving time, effort, products and applicator pads. not all top end waxes cost 200 squid remember


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## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

This says it best, perhaps:


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

alan hanson said:


> snobbery? are the top end detailers who use expensive waxes when doing the job for a living all year round stupid times/conditions snobbery?


the snobs are the people who pay the detailers for the expensive wax add on :lol:

then they boast to theor snob friends


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## Faysal (Oct 23, 2010)

big ben said:


> just buy a nice sealant which out performs all the waxes on the market, job done :lol:


And wich sealant would that be you're talking about?


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## Maggi200 (Aug 21, 2009)

Wolfs or gtechniq I would imgagine


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

Paragon said:


> These waxes are designed for an industry in which "time is money". Why apply a cheap wax that is difficult to apply and tricky to buff off, when you could buy a more expensive tub that is easy to apply and buff off? To the DIY guy, you'd likely go with the cheap one if you were only interested in cost, but to someone who does this for a living and would go through that tub of wax in a couple of months doing many many cars, then in the long run they would likely save themselves a fortune in time despite the higher initial outlay..
> 
> There's some really pricey waxes out there, some into the thousands - but think of it this way:
> 
> ...


A pro detailer is one person in 1000 in the real world Id punt.So most people will be after the best blend of affordability and useability.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

RoverIain said:


> *To be quite frank you'll find you can get just as good performance with cheaper waxes.*Most durable wax Ive used is a cheap wax,lasts just as long as the Collinite 476 Ive got and it was a quid.Granted its alittle tough to use but why should things be easy.Half of the fun is the process so if things take alittle longer using a less easy to use product whats the problem.


Yep the snobbery works both ways, I think it transpires to people wanting others to use the same as them :speechles
We have 100s of threads about which wax?... 
Technique rules! 
Yes I have the Tough Wax, Simoniz and various waxes up to £60 retail cost, and yes I would pay £100 for a wax, as it adds little difference to my spend after the purchase cost of the car :thumb:


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## Johnboy82 (Nov 12, 2010)

I have been wondering about this myself. as i mentioned in previous thread - my gran bought me some carpride TFF wax, now i've used it a few times albeit on top of EGP and to be honest the finish is very good. the durability is very good aswell - not touched the car since the initial detail when i got the car in october and i gave it a rinse down with the jet wash at the local gaarage and there was still a good level of beading on the paint work. i find it actually very easy to work with aswell. as long as it works then i'll use it until its finished then move on to something else as i generally wax the car at least once a month. usually every 3weeks though as i find it relaxing.


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## Spuj (Apr 19, 2010)

As already mentioned, it is completely down to personnel preferance.

It really depends what you want out of a wax whether that be durability, looks etc. With the higher priced waxes you are paying for a high quality product that will do many great things, but also for that feel good factor of using it (for the reasons Maggii112 has already managed). I'm also a firm believer in that there is something more in the higher priced waxes.

Other reasons such as packaging come into play, having a fancy packaged wax doesn't generally improve the function of its contents, but when you and others look at it you go wow, that looks pretty dam sweet.

Another way of looking at it is at the end of the day, it is each to there own. Some people like to spend their hard earned on getting drunk every weekend, others on clothes, and then us lot who like to spend it on a nice wax to treat our pride and joy. This is the main reason I will keep buying boutique waxes over cheaper ones. Yes the cheaper range may do the same, give the same looks (although I believe that higher priced waxes can offer more - different debate :lol My car will most likey be the second most expensive thing I will ever own (currently THE most expensive) so I want to treat it to something nice.

Better do some work now I suppose :lol:


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

I don't think its snobbery at all, if something is a hobby and I have an interest in something then I will buy myself equipment that gives me the most pleasure to do the task to my standards.

Some people spend £40+ on a t-shirt when a £10 one does the same job. Some people spend £100's on a watch when a £5 casio would do the job.

There are infinate examples of this, people will naturally spend more on things that they are interested in as it brings them pleasure or enjoyment.

So the question of "is the difference in price justifyable between X and X" is impossible to answer, people can only give opinions and you can be sure they will vary massively.

My advice would always be to get the prep right, get the paint as near perfect as you can get it by claying and machine polishing etc, and protect it with whatever tickles you fancy.


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## big ben (Aug 25, 2009)

^^ good answer, but i buy tshirts from tesco for 2-4 pound, not 10 :lol:


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## Steve valentine (Aug 7, 2010)

Well, I use a sealer, optiseal to be precise, so far it has lasted 4 months.

Doddle to apply, but not cheap at £18 for a little bottle, although it does last yonks.

Tried a dodo juice wax (purple haze sample pot) it lasted maybe two months, it does smell nice although what extra this gives the car is beyond me.

You often get folks who buy something just because of the smell, but, at the end of the day, snobbery or not, if it makes you happy, then crack on.

And I have a 12 quid sekonda watch and 20 quid jeans from matalan, but, I drive a Jag


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## RCZ (Aug 13, 2010)

I wonder what the 'top 25 sellers' were that they tried?

As I mentioned in my first post, I've only used AG HD Wax and Autobrite Addiction. Both are really easy to use and I've been pleased with the results in terms of looks and durability. I certainly wouldn't got to a cheaper wax if it meant it was hard to buff off.

Next I'm going to be trying Jett Acrylic Trigger and I concede that I do enjoy trying different products...but I won't get carried away and buy waxes over the price of HD Wax, because I suspect that the law of diminishing returns has set in well before then. But that's the thing..it's all subjective and relative.

My friends and family still think I'm mad for even thinking about it


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

The most i would pay for a wax is 25 quid, that gets me AG HD wax. You don't really need anything more expensive than this. The other one i have is Megs 16, i can't fault this wax either, easy on and off, looks good and lasts well.


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## jay_bmw (Jan 28, 2010)

exactly, if you want to spend 100 quid on a wax, then thats great as its your hobby, i also wear 2 for a £10 t-shirts, use 10 quid wax, don't even wear a watch, never mind a nice one! But drive a sorta nice bmw.


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## Spuj (Apr 19, 2010)

RCZ said:


> I wonder what the 'top 25 sellers' were that they tried?
> 
> As I mentioned in my first post, I've only used AG HD Wax and Autobrite Addiction. Both are really easy to use and I've been pleased with the results in terms of looks and durability. I certainly wouldn't got to a cheaper wax if it meant it was hard to buff off.
> 
> ...


I think you have answered your original question with that post with the line 'It's all subjective and relative'. :thumb:


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## Spuj (Apr 19, 2010)

pete5570 said:


> The most i would pay for a wax is 25 quid, that gets me AG HD wax. *You don't really need anything more expensive than this* The other one i have is Megs 16, i can't fault this wax either, easy on and off, looks good and lasts well.


But that is the crux of this whole discussion is it not? That is your opinion of things you have experienced while detailing. While there are a number of people who will agree with you, even to the point of saying that you wouldn't need to spend more than what the Megs 16, there will always be people that disagree!


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

RCZ said:


> I wonder what the 'top 25 sellers' were that they tried?
> 
> As I mentioned in my first post, I've only used AG HD Wax and Autobrite Addiction. Both are really easy to use and I've been pleased with the results in terms of looks and durability. I certainly wouldn't got to a cheaper wax if it meant it was hard to buff off.
> 
> ...


It's the curiosity that gets the better, my RG42 has been as difficult or as easy to use as the Simoniz. All of them are durable easily seeing out past winters and high PH wash solutions and without top up sprays, I now have about 14 paste waxes, have no regret over any of them,as you have the AG HD IME there is little need to try anything else


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

I think we have all gone through the Meguiar's phase, I know anyone in Australia has.

Now, I just prefer products that are made with care and dedication, not mass produced crap. Doesn't have to mean expensive..... Take Vic's red for instance. 

Now, best durability for price? That would be a sealant my friend. If I really really want it to last, it has to be IPA wipe down then at least 2 coats. Lasts months, like any good sealant should.


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## Johnboy82 (Nov 12, 2010)

what would be your sealant of choice?


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## E38_ross (May 10, 2010)

Johnboy82 said:


> what would be your sealant of choice?


gtechniq C2 for me. brilliant stuff. i'm never going back to waxes again, i've only tried a rather modest 7-8 waxes or so, ranging from about £7 up to £50. i use C2 every time now. easier on than anything, easier off than anything. lasts as long as the longer lasting waxes, and gives a great finish.


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## RCZ (Aug 13, 2010)

Johnboy82 said:


> what would be your sealant of choice?


Plenty of threads on that...even on this first page :thumb:
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=196944

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=196809

Thanks for everyone's input. As I said initially, I was partly playing Devil's advocate, but was sort of hoping for (but not really expecting) some ********** answers, like...

"Simoniz doesn't do x,y,z...."
" Auto Express are rubbish at product tests because...."

Like I said, I'd love to know if they tried HD Wax, Dodo Juice, Meguiars etc but decided Simoniz was better for certain reasons.

I suspect that they only choose products that people can get on the high street. The way they seemed to interchangeably refer to wax and polish without differentiating makes me take the results with a pinch of salt. When I first got interested in detailing, I went with their suggestion of wheel sealant (Autoglym)...although I suspect there are MUCH better products out there for not much more dosh.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

E21_ross said:


> gtechniq C2 for me. brilliant stuff. i'm never going back to waxes again, i've only tried a rather modest 7-8 waxes or so, ranging from about £7 up to £50. i use C2 every time now. easier on than anything, easier off than anything. lasts as long as the longer lasting waxes, and gives a great finish.


Trouble is sealants give a clinical look compared to 'real' waxes some favour the 'real' wax look compared to the sharp shine of sealants


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

Avanti said:


> Trouble is sealants give a clinical look compared to 'real' waxes some favour the 'real' wax look compared to the sharp shine of sealants


I personally think sealants give a vastly superior look to waxes, as long as the paint work is in very good condition, mine isn't so i use wax at the moment. But that's another thread.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

RCZ said:


> Plenty of threads on that...even on this first page :thumb:
> 
> Thanks for everyone's input. As I said initially, I was partly playing Devil's advocate, but was sort of hoping for (but not really expecting) some ********** answers, like...
> 
> ...


There is more than one wax test on AE, they do usually stipulate how they are judging the products and price is also a factor, I think in the test you are reffering to, it was the beading after several weeks.
I know some will mock the AE reviews but they do define the outline of the tests and have been known to add that if price was not a factor then the more expensive product would be the winner on that particular test.
Also no one complained when the 476 won the polish test


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## gordonpuk (Mar 14, 2010)

I've seen cif used as a polish and topped off with Tesco 'furniture wax polish'. 
It did bead. . . . . . not for long!


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## Red_Cloverleaf (Jul 26, 2009)

Probably all snobbery and we're all guilty of it to some degree. My self included.


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

I have 4 tins of Simoniz its really good stuff, puts a bit of shine on and lasts ages lots for your money.
It has a high carnauba wax content but can be a pain to get off once hazed.
Only do small sections at a time use a dampened foam applicator pad and very thin coats.
The thing is different folk want different looks or longevity with protection or realy wet look a mirror finish yadda yadda.
Heck most folk baulk at washing the car and go car wash never mind actually waxing the darned car.
Bloke at work baulks at paying £6 for SRP.
Some love the whole application and knowing there wax is premium priced.
All have there own desires, heck in the summer i would be happy to put just the autobrite cherry glaze on every weekend shift permitting it could be mid week, that does not have much longevity but deepens the paint colour spreads so easy trim safe easy off smells so good i have to open the pot every 2 days for the smell fix.
Winter i put sealant on. Jetseal and or fk1000p or collinite.
On the rover in Summer in british racing green i will put migliour fruita and thats all that wax will ever go on.
Im just as happy to put collinite 915 on the polo or simoniz but would be pulled to the collinite out the 2 i have the choice and thats what i can.
I Sold the wifes Aygo after a wash, just wash no claying a polish with some 12 year old turtle wax mettalic and a coat of simoniz.
Did exactly the same with my pug partner i sold both looked great and i know for a fact i had added £400 to the price i could get for the partner and all this before discovering this site.
Oh both cars sold in a few days.
Pheew... sorry for going on there.
Oh the Auto express test had the Simoniz win after 8 weeks of snow and ice last year beating stuff costing as much as 6.5 times more.
There main criteria was longevity.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

Why do people spend any more money on anything other than the "cheapest" of that product/service???......

Freedom of choice.

:thumb:


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## james_death (Aug 9, 2010)

The Cueball said:


> Why do people spend any more money on anything other than the "cheapest" of that product/service???......
> 
> Freedom of choice.
> 
> :thumb:


As Cueball myself and others have said, its all relative everyone is different.
I drive a 2001 rover 75 and a 2000 piaggio x9 250cc scooter.

If i had the money to afford it i would have an e-type jag and a burgman 650 cc scoot.

If you can afford it and happy to pay it people can... As often pointed out its the prep that gives best results no matter what you put on at the end of it all.

But there is no way i would diss someone for using £4 product or another using the £15000 one.

All freedom of choice.


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## Chufster (Nov 21, 2010)

I wouldn't liken it to designer clothing as other people can tell that you are wearing designer clothing. Driving a BMW over a Mondeo is the designer clothing.

If you wax your car, other people will see that your car is shiny, but they won't know if the wax cost £10 or £100, but you will.

I would liken it to eating out. Why do some people choose to eat out at places like nandos, whilst others choose to go to Clarages? Your consuming calories at both places, with nothing else to show for it afterwards, but one provides a different experience to the other. 

Personally I would be unlikely to spend £100 on a pot of wax, but could be convinced to spend £30 or £50, if it makes my car look how I like it.

At the end of the day everybody has different priorities when spending their own money.


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## slkman (Jun 23, 2009)

I think if it's your hobby or business you want to try new things and that what keeps most peoples interest. Keeps my interest anyway, I couldn't see myself bothering cleaning the car as often as I do if all I had was bog standard stuff. Not that there is a logical performance benefit but because I enjoy it.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Chufster said:


> I wouldn't liken it to designer clothing as other people can tell that you are wearing designer clothing. Driving a BMW over a Mondeo is the designer clothing.
> 
> If you wax your car, other people will see that your car is shiny, but they won't know if the wax cost £10 or £100, but you will.
> 
> ...


Years back I saw a T-shirt in a shop window and it kept 'haunting me' so one afternoon I pressed the buzzer and the guy opened the door I asked how much was the T-shirt in the window, he called me across and showed me the price tag .....£69  anyway after a few days of deliberating, I thought sod it and bought it  luckily the time I went to get it, there was a sale on and the price was reduced to £48, luckily I still have the shirt in good condition and it ensures I don't get to fat otherwise I won't be able to wear it 
Anyways back to the wax, for me if I apply say a £50 wax to the car then to me it looks £50 better , that is all that deters me from getting say a £500 wax as I don't think it would make the car look £500 better, some waxes do keep that just waxed shimmer for a long time and don't require top up potions, so a £20 wax and £20 spray to keep it looking good ends up nearly being a false economy


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## Mr Face (Jan 22, 2009)

Just because I wanted to










Am I a snob : behave : I havent used any of them yet

not invested in simoniz either :thumb:yet


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## tomah (Sep 17, 2010)

^^^ lol

Freedom of choice, eh??

:thumb:


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## monkeyone (May 22, 2007)

I'm not sure about the standard of their reviews, but I am happy with my Colly 915.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

monkeyone said:


> I'm not sure about the standard of their reviews, but I am happy with my Colly 915.


I take when you say they, you mean AE?
Yes there maybe holes in some of the reviews but at least they are in a consistent format, sadly it is difficult on here sometimes to choose a product via forums, as people will have their favourites and then there is the bell curve factor and then the snobbery comes into that too (not necessarily expensive) , I wonder if one of the brands here managed to get their lines onto Halfords shelves , would people still be as euphoric about them


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

I don't think it's snobbery as such, If i was mad enough to spend 500 quid on a wax, it would be of no benefit to brag about what i had on my car, people i know wouldn't be impressed in the slightest. I think some people think that if they pay mega bucks for a wax, it will give them something extra over the cheaper waxes,some pay for the smell and the feel of the wax and how it makes them feel. I know people like to go on about their new high end wax on here, but that's up to them. My opinion is that any decent wax will give good results on a well prepared car.


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

I think to the average person anything over a tenner is shocking to spend on something to clean a car with.I can understand that,afterall its a car,its main job is to sit outside getting covered in crap.Which is why mine isnt getting touched till the good weather comes back.Unlike some cars I dont have the worry of corrosion.It being made of proper metal


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## Red_Cloverleaf (Jul 26, 2009)

Avanti said:


> Years back I saw a T-shirt in a shop window and it kept 'haunting me' so one afternoon I pressed the buzzer and the guy opened the door I asked how much was the T-shirt in the window, he called me across and showed me the price tag .....£69  anyway after a few days of deliberating, I thought sod it and bought it  luckily the time I went to get it, there was a sale on and the price was reduced to £48, luckily I still have the shirt in good condition and it ensures I don't get to fat otherwise I won't be able to wear it
> Anyways back to the wax, for me if I apply say a £50 wax to the car then to me it looks £50 better , that is all that deters me from getting say a £500 wax as I don't think it would make the car look £500 better, some waxes do keep that just waxed shimmer for a long time and don't require top up potions, so a £20 wax and £20 spray to keep it looking good ends up nearly being a false economy


Brilliant! :thumb::thumb::thumb:

A this point, would admitting to paying £380 for a shirt be excessive? Addmitedly it was a Gucci shirt but the comparisson drawn is first class!


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

whilst i have posted about the snobbery factor regarding waxes in the past i still get the wow factor it gives the purchaser and the point made by avanti is spot on,
i wear designer label clothes and to me that makes me feel better so at the end of the day i can totally get the need to buy a boutique wax and i have ,my previous posts regarding expensive waxes have been regarding performance not the feel good you get from a nice tub in a draw string pouch so whilst performance may be similar the wow factor is what will give people the need to buy more expensive waxes and good luck to em i say


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## centenary (Sep 5, 2010)

My dear old mum used to say 'buy cheap, buy at least twice.'

I've loads of examples where cheaper wasnt as good as buying a 'quality' or more expensive product and lots of examples where buying cheap led to product failure quickly. I personally wouldnt buy anything that was cheap and dont believe you get similar products at vastly different prices.

As regards buying a ford instead of a bimmer, not a chance. I know from experience the bimmer is a far better quality product.

My 3 series workhorse has 149,000 miles on it, all driven by me. Its never not started first time, every time.

Apart from service consumables, its only had the two rear discs and two front bushes replaced at 105,000 miles and 126,000 miles respectively. Its still on the original exhaust and original front discs.

Its whatever floats your boat though.:thumb:

Beep, beep :driver:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

centenary said:


> My dear old mum used to say 'buy cheap, buy at least twice.'


I prefer price is what you pay, value is what you get....

:thumb:


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## Chufster (Nov 21, 2010)

The Cueball said:


> I prefer price is what you pay, value is what you get....
> 
> :thumb:


Or the quality is remembered, long after the price is forgotten.


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

centenary said:


> My dear old mum used to say 'buy cheap, buy at least twice.'


Meh.not always.One pocket money car,4 years later.And plenty left in it.I could have spent all my 6k budget and been stuck with a piece of ****.So money does not always equate to a good product.
Another example.Petrol. Do I buy the £1.30 a litre Esso super duper one,or do I but the cheaper Supermarket one that my car runs on just as well.
Same goes for wax.£1 buys something that most people will use and be happy with mention a £32 one and most people will say "**** off"


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## gordonpuk (Mar 14, 2010)

Chufster said:


> Or the quality is remembered, long after the price is forgotten.


the bitterness of low quality is remembered
long after the sweetness of low price has been forgotten


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## westerman (Oct 12, 2008)

Snobbery? Image? Marketing Gullibility? We are indeed all guilty of it. I'd be surprised if I'm not the oldest 'git' on here having polished cars for 50 years. A couple of years back I found this site and it changed the way I think about polishing my car. I now 'Detail' it. Okay, not to the standards of many but I have never achieved such results now I have found this site. It's simply amazing and it's got nothing to do with 'products'. It's all about preparation. Discover the Clay Bar, the machine polishing technique and the proper way to glaze. Wow. The LSP of your choice will pop your eyes out and will last longer than anything you used before. PREPARATION...remember the word. In a nutshell, if your Colly or any other LSP is not lasting as you hoped, it's because you don't prep the surface properly and if it don't shine as it should, it's because you didn't prep properly. Is Swissvax better than Zaino? the decision has to be yours. Thanks to DW for all the guidance..keep it coming!!:thumb:


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## CliveP (Feb 1, 2009)

Interesting question. My other hobby is a better illustration. You can get a lovely koi carp for £100. You can get a superb one when you spend 4 digits. Perfection gets closer at 5 digits, and certainly goes into 6.....the difference - it's very marginal but a truely outstanding fish will IMO blow you away and will be worth every penny, just for that few extra 'percent' in terms of quality. That's what a decent wax allows you to climb, that perfection ladder, but only if the prep work is there....

Compared to smoking and drinking (I do neither) (and rip off council tax and income tax) this hobby is small change!....

Regards,
Clive.


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## PugIain (Jun 28, 2006)

CliveP said:


> Interesting question. My other hobby is a better illustration. You can get a lovely koi carp for £100. You can get a superb one when you spend 4 digits. Perfection gets closer at 5 digits, and certainly goes into 6.....the difference - it's very marginal but a truely outstanding fish will IMO blow you away and will be worth every penny.


How can you tell the difference between a cheap one and an expensive one?
Does it do a dance when you take it out the water?
Make you a brew when you finish work? Do what women are meant to do without the lip?
Engage you in cogent political debate without sounding like a boring tweed wearing local council representative?


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## Mirror Finish Details (Aug 21, 2008)

Wax is so yesterday really, sealants are the way forward.

I use Opti Seal as a standard offering, 6 months protection from two coats or I up sell C1 that should last a year.

I have had the boutique waxes. However, they hardly last any time at all. One I tried is over £1k a tub. It had almost dissapered within a month.

I used to love waxing cars, but only use sealants now, so much more advanced and the clinical look; hey it is what customers are after.


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## Magic Detail (Jul 25, 2010)

westerman said:


> Snobbery? Image? Marketing Gullibility? We are indeed all guilty of it. I'd be surprised if I'm not the oldest 'git' on here having polished cars for 50 years. A couple of years back I found this site and it changed the way I think about polishing my car. I now 'Detail' it. Okay, not to the standards of many but I have never achieved such results now I have found this site. It's simply amazing and it's got nothing to do with 'products'. It's all about preparation. Discover the Clay Bar, the machine polishing technique and the proper way to glaze. Wow. The LSP of your choice will pop your eyes out and will last longer than anything you used before. PREPARATION...remember the word. In a nutshell, if your Colly or any other LSP is not lasting as you hoped, it's because you don't prep the surface properly and if it don't shine as it should, it's because you didn't prep properly. Is Swissvax better than Zaino? the decision has to be yours. Thanks to DW for all the guidance..keep it coming!!:thumb:


I absolutely agree about the preparation mate - I have a new Abarth 500 (I say new, it's now 5 months old!!), this has been dealer prepared. I have applied AG HD Wax to this, and within 3 months it needed topping up as the beading had almost gone. When I got that car, at the same time I fully detailed my Grandad's A-Class and applied the same wax, 5 months on the beading is still fine and when I wash it the majority of the dirt literally falls off at the rinse stage!!

I put this down to the dealer prep on the Abarth and my prep on the A-Class. I will get round to doing mine eventually, but I have just been too busy to warrant spending a weekend on it since I've had it!

:buffer:


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Paragon said:


> I absolutely agree about the preparation mate - I have a new Abarth 500 (I say new, it's now 5 months old!!), this has been dealer prepared.* I have applied AG HD Wax to this,* and within 3 months it needed topping up as the beading had almost gone. When I got that car, at the same time I fully detailed my Grandad's A-Class and applied the same wax, 5 months on the beading is still fine and when I wash it the majority of the dirt literally falls off at the rinse stage!!
> 
> I put this down to the dealer prep on the Abarth and my prep on the A-Class. I will get round to doing mine eventually, but I have just been too busy to warrant spending a weekend on it since I've had it!
> 
> :buffer:


Out of interest, why did you choose AG HD in favour of the 'preffered' 3 LSP products? as the AG HD is more expensive even if you get it at less than the RRP


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## Magic Detail (Jul 25, 2010)

Avanti said:


> Out of interest, why did you choose AG HD in favour of the 'preffered' 3 LSP products? as the AG HD is more expensive even if you get it at less than the RRP


I did a favour for a mate, and in return he turned up one day with a kit - I was sceptical at first, but I thought _"it's free, so might aswell use it". _I have been impressed with its results ever since. It's been fantastic on my Grandad's car, very durable, offering a deep wet-look gloss to the paint (it's blue metallic). :thumb:


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Paragon said:


> I did a favour for a mate, and in return he turned up one day with a kit - I was sceptical at first, but I thought _"it's free, so might aswell use it". _I have been impressed with its results ever since.* It's been fantastic *on my Grandad's car, *very durable, offering a deep wet-look gloss to the paint* (it's blue metallic). :thumb:


Yep, I agree, I wonder why some 'panic' over durability, as you have discovered it is up there with the rest, I got mine for less than rrp (and less than the favoured 3 ) , however if I had to i would happily have paid the full rrp for it :thumb:
If all waxes were the smae price I wonder which ones people would be choosing


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

Lols at this again.

It used to be every 6 months now it seems like every month there is a thread regarding botique products and prices and performance.


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

gally said:


> Lols at this again.
> 
> It used to be every 6 months now it seems like every month there is a thread regarding botique products and prices and performance.


Well new people want to talk about it, and put their thoughts/rants/nonsense in, and some older people just like a fight....

:lol:

Either way, it's going to keep going on....

Same as the "what wax for a XXX coloured car"

and

"I have just found out about detailing, but going pro tomorrow, give me loads of help"


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

With regard to the above posts yes it would seem that newbies are continually asking about what wax is best worst etc but if all threads that had been covered before were automatically removed it would be a pretty empty forum containing product reviews and a million pictures of people snowfoaming a car or polishing a car.
I am a newbie on this site as you can tell by my join date but am no means a newbie when it comes to cleaning cars to a high standard for myself and others,i digress.For me there is no answer to the op's question it is all down to preference and what someone is prepared to pay as in all walks of life.
£100 jumper £10 jumper,ill take the £100 one,does the same job but i'll be happier,same goes for lsp's.
There is much debate regarding the performance of the lower end waxes vs boutique but thats a whole other argument and there are many threads regarding tests on this,a big one carried out by finer details is a good read if not completely scientific in its findings.
In closing buy what you want to buy if its performance read up on what you are looking for,if its feel good factor....well the boutique wax will beat the cheaper waxes,thats human nature feeling better by having something deemed more premium.


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

The Cueball said:


> Well new people want to talk about it, and put their thoughts/rants/nonsense in, and some older people just like a fight....
> 
> :lol:
> 
> ...


Oh that made me chuckle :thumb:


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

Avanti said:


> Oh that made me chuckle :thumb:


It's funny because its true :wave::thumb:


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## gally (May 25, 2008)

<3 Cueball and his wisdom ways!

So true though.

I'm going to start posting picture of 476's everytime someone asks what wax for x car, x season, x weather!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## RCZ (Aug 13, 2010)

The Cueball said:


> Well new people want to talk about it, and put their thoughts/rants/nonsense in, and some older people just like a fight....
> 
> :lol:
> 
> ...


hehe..I'm interested in photography and used to frequent a couple of digital photography forums. I wish I had a pound for every post along the lines of "I've taken some photos which my friends tell me are good, so now I want to go Pro...can I have some advice." :wall:


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## Faysal (Oct 23, 2010)

A very good example is this tread of FinerDetails http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=182046 the LSP of choice on the car was collinite 476s and the shine on the car looks stunning but if he would have said that he applied for example swissvax divine crystal rock zymol etc... nobody could tell the difference and people would be saying wooooow swissvax etc...rules etc... it is the best wax ever bla bla bla while the lsp is one of the cheapest and most durable out there!Another proof guys that it's ALL IN THE PREP and mostly marketing of some wax brands...

Cheers


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

I see this thread has gone from an opinion on waxes to the usual how stupid us newbies are,always wanting to start up a business,fools!
It is true that people jump on a band wagon and see it as an easy way to make money,however at what point in a time frame is it decided by you older hands on here that its acceptable to perhaps give it a go so to speak,from a personal point of view i would guess that i have been valeting cars to a high standard and correcting paint for around five years on and off and would guess without tallying up everyone that i did around 40 cars this year and have 9 bookings for next year up to now from word of mouth i did this in conjunction with my shift work job and use a spare unit at work to do them in.
However the fact that i only joined this sight after a good few years of using it as a reference tool in august would also deem me as another stupid fool if i were to decide to go pro and have a go so to speak as i cant possibly have the knowledge to do this.
It really dissapoints me with the endless responses by pros and hobbyists alike or even people who 'detail' a couple of cars a year yet know the ins and outs of the whole business by spending countless hours on here criticising everyones choices and decisions be it starting a business down to what bloody wax they buy. ffs stop taking it all so seriously ,it is at the end of the day car cleaning!
Let people do what they want to do and if you feel so strongly about a new start up guy weel at the end of the day you dont have to use him do you:wall:


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

Faysal said:


> A very good example is this tread of FinerDetails http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=182046 the LSP of choice on the car was collinite 476s and the shine on the car looks stunning but if he would have said that he applied for example swissvax divine crystal rock zymol etc... nobody could tell the difference and people would be saying wooooow swissvax etc...rules etc... it is the best wax ever bla bla bla while the lsp is one of the cheapest and most durable out there!Another proof guys that it's ALL IN THE PREP and mostly marketing of some wax brands...
> 
> Cheers


Spot on!


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

robinho said:


> I see this thread has gone from an opinion on waxes to the usual how stupid us newbies are,always wanting to start up a business,fools!
> It is true that people jump on a band wagon and see it as an easy way to make money,however at what point in a time frame is it decided by you older hands on here that its acceptable to perhaps give it a go so to speak,from a personal point of view i would guess that i have been valeting cars to a high standard and correcting paint for around five years on and off and would guess without tallying up everyone that i did around 40 cars this year and have 9 bookings for next year up to now from word of mouth i did this in conjunction with my shift work job and use a spare unit at work to do them in.
> However the fact that i only joined this sight after a good few years of using it as a reference tool in august would also deem me as another stupid fool if i were to decide to go pro and have a go so to speak as i cant possibly have the knowledge to do this.
> It really dissapoints me with the endless responses by pros and hobbyists alike or even people who 'detail' a couple of cars a year yet know the ins and outs of the whole business by spending countless hours on here criticising everyones choices and decisions be it starting a business down to what bloody wax they buy. ffs stop taking it all so seriously ,it is at the end of the day car cleaning!
> Let people do what they want to do and if you feel so strongly about a new start up guy weel at the end of the day you dont have to use him do you:wall:


Not one person has said anything about people being stupid or being foolish...

Maybe better for you to stop ranting and actually read the posts....

From my post, if you read it again, all you will see is me saying that these types of threads will always pop up...

As far as I can see, no-one has said after my post that "how stupid us newbies are,always wanting to start up a business,fools!"

Stop making things up...and relax...

:thumb:


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

The Cueball said:


> Not one person has said anything about people being stupid or being foolish...
> 
> Maybe better for you to stop ranting and actually read the posts....
> 
> ...


 Right im off to a dark room for a lye down after a pointless rant :lol:


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## The Cueball (Feb 8, 2007)

robinho said:


> Right im off to a dark room for a lye down after a pointless rant :lol:


We are all allowed them from time to time....keeps us sane....

:wave:

:lol:

:thumb:


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## R0B (Aug 27, 2010)

The Cueball said:


> We are all allowed them from time to time....keeps us sane....
> 
> :wave:
> 
> ...


Definately feel better after it cueball
:thumb:


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Faysal said:


> A very good example is this tread of FinerDetails http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=182046 the LSP of choice on the car was collinite 476s and the shine on the car looks stunning but if he would have said that he applied for example swissvax divine crystal rock zymol etc... *nobody could tell the difference and people would be saying wooooow swissvax etc...rules etc...* it is the best wax ever bla bla bla while the lsp is one of the cheapest and most durable out there!Another proof guys that it's ALL IN THE PREP and mostly marketing of some wax brands...
> 
> Cheers


Only had a quick look but did notice 4 pages of replies, so that is good :thumb:
The snobbiness as mentioned works both ways and some advocates contradict themselves 'bell curve wax ' or a £60 tub ? Usual replies "oh you can't tell the difference, so get the bell curve wax"
'bell curve wax' or something that is the same price or cheaper? the replies then are "get the 'bell curve wax' as it is better


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

That RS4 looks absolutely insane in that linked thread, shows just how good 476 is.

The thing is, I still don't want to buy it, it does nothing for me.

Does that make me a snob? :wave:


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## Avanti (Jan 17, 2006)

Eddy said:


> That RS4 looks absolutely insane in that linked thread, shows just how good 476 is.
> 
> The thing is, I still don't want to buy it, it does nothing for me.
> 
> Does that make me a snob? :wave:


No it does not, what puts me off it the most is folk saying about adding top up sprays over a time, if I were going to get a colli it would be 915, however I have too many to get through at present.


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## -Raven- (Aug 26, 2010)

Eddy said:


> That RS4 looks absolutely insane in that linked thread, shows just how good 476 is.
> 
> The thing is, I still don't want to buy it, it does nothing for me.
> 
> Does that make me a snob? :wave:


476 or ultrafina?


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

type[r]+ said:


> 476 or ultrafina?


The RS4 :wave::wave::wave::wave::wave:


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## Eddy (Apr 13, 2008)

Avanti said:


> No it does not, what puts me off it the most is folk saying about adding top up sprays over a time, if I were going to get a colli it would be 915, *however I have too many to get through at present*.


Too many?!? Thats unpossible


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## Shinyvec (Feb 12, 2010)

I must admit to seeing and buying other make things which are the same or very nearly or better than the Big Guys or Boutique brands. Microfibre Cloths, Wash Mitts / Pads and Applicators are some of the things where Boutique names put a larger markup on things that are the same as either a lessor or no name company sell.


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## RCZ (Aug 13, 2010)

As the OP, I've MORE than had my questions answered...but I'm happy for the debate to continue.

I just wish I could generate this much interest from women :lol:


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## pete5570 (Jun 11, 2010)

RCZ said:


> As the OP, I've MORE than had my questions answered...but I'm happy for the debate to continue.
> 
> I just wish I could generate this much interest from women :lol:


But don't use a question about detailing or wax, they will run for the hills!!


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## mk2glenn (Sep 12, 2010)

Eddy said:


> That RS4 looks absolutely insane in that linked thread, shows just how good 476 is.
> 
> The thing is, I still don't want to buy it, it does nothing for me.
> 
> Does that make me a snob? :wave:


I'd be the same. The packaging of the 476 is just so terrible that I'd rather have the nicely presented HD Wax.


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