# This whole "eco" detailing thing, isnt it all just a fad ?



## MrLOL (Feb 23, 2007)

Ok im all ears.

Why the need for this eco stuff ? water is a renewable resource and is never going to run out. Obviously in the height of summer during a hosepipe ban, the situation may be different. But here in england that doesnt happen very often. 

So why are we all so concerned about "wasting" water when its in infinte supply ?


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## karl_liverpool (Sep 25, 2008)

i dont think its so much the waste of water, but more what happens to the water once its used and tainted with wash chemicals and oil


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## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

Whilst you are right that it's infinite, it's the shortage of "processed" water that's the problem and while more than enough falls on this green and pleasant (?) land, it tends to fall in the wrong place - millions of tonnes fall on Scotland, but not enough on SE England.


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## Dave KG (Feb 23, 2006)

parish said:


> Whilst you are right that it's infinite, it's the shortage of "processed" water that's the problem and while more than enough falls on this green and pleasant (?) land, it tends to fall in the wrong place - *millions of tonnes fall on Scotland*, but not enough on SE England.


Tell me about it!


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

another great myth "water will never run out..."

As Parish says, it isnt a finite resource  It also already against the law to allow run-off water to enter surface drains, if you are cleaning cars professionally. That is an incentive to look at ways to reduce water use, and hence run-off, OR collect it somehow and dispose of it properly. There's no way I'd like to have Tardis run-off/rinse water flowing into the stream at the bottom of my street that has my drain feeding directly into it 

I also think it makes sense financially, as more and more of us are on a water meter - do you know how much 150L of foaming, rinsing and buckets or water costs?

As the entire process also involves chemicals of one sort or another, it should also be sensible to think about what you are using and the potential risks to YOU, the car owner and users and the environment. There are some really quite nasty chemicals bottled up as detailing products....

Lots of things to think about really


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## parish (Jun 29, 2006)

The big problem with the whole 'eco'/'green' thing for me, and a lot of people I know, is that those who shout about it the most - politicians and the knit your own sandals brigade - are the people who you'd trust least to give the facts, the whole facts, not cherry-picked snippets that suit their agenda.

As I've said before, the real scientific facts are being obscured by political spin and marketing hype.

Take the motor industry, one of the favourite targets, and look at what it's achieved over the last 25-30 years. They've switched from solvent-based to water-based paint. They've dramatically reduced fuel consumption of cars - by nearly half on a like-for-like basis, but even more if you consider that you can get the same performance from a much smaller modern, turbo-charged, engine than a much larger n/a engine of a few decades ago yet all the politicians and eco brigade do is criticize.


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## Johnny_Cashed (Aug 14, 2007)

I understand the discussions about run offs getting into the water system, streams and rivers etc, but you are washing *cars* which I'd assume pollute a lot more than the chemicals used to clean it.


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

small cars have their place but I'd much rather continue to own a 4.0 litre 185kw Falcon sedan in which gets 500 (city) and 800 to 1000 kms (highway) and have the added safety of it's size and be much more comfortable

Never been a fan of pocket rocket's. 
You get hit by a car or truck in a small hyundai or anything smaller than them and your dead

Unlike the UK, Australia has always been a place of droughts, extremely long spells of dry, 30 to 50 c temp's and we can't be wasting it. 

Yes there is some hype and BS from certain groups and politicians in my country about climate change and carbon emissions but why should we continue on washing cars very close to the way it has been done since the birth of the car

Bucket(s), soap, sponge or mitts and all the mess that it creates and the damage it does to some modern vehicle exterior moldings and the fact that this method produces more marring than water wise or partially dry washing

I refuse to use acidic based products and anything that is extremely alkaline or that contains the really bad solvents plus man made and anything else that provides a result that does not last

Whether we are hurting the environment or not, it's the 21st century and time to let go of some of the 20th century techniques and thinking

Style magic and a chamois plus 5L of water to clean the chamois has proven tommany people in Australia that it is the smartest and safest way of cleaning a car (wouldnt call it a wash) but just a clean as washing to me means soaking the car down

no matter what brand of conventional style car wash you are using, they all reduce slickness, affect some moldings (turns them brown and spotty), dry out the paint over a period of time and weaken water soluble sealants and even some non water soluble ones

Us aussie's have it tough and the government isn't helping with their "wash with buckets" or go to coin op car wash" legislation which makes wet washing harder and more water is used
Even pro wash's coin op bays use soap that effects exterior surfaces and that darn brush is a killer.

you should see what their pre soak does to single stage paint after a few applications


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## Mixman (Dec 18, 2007)

Bigpikle said:


> I also think it makes sense financially, as more and more of us are on a water meter - do you know how much 150L of foaming, rinsing and buckets or water costs?


30p :thumb:

In the Yorkshire region anyway


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## Bigpikle (May 21, 2007)

Mixman said:


> 30p :thumb:
> 
> In the Yorkshire region anyway


plus your sewerage charges on water used, tax etc. Then add that for 2-3 cars each week. Quickly adds up


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## Shug (Jul 13, 2007)

Dream Machines said:


> Unlike the UK, Australia has always been a place of droughts, extremely long spells of dry, 30 to 50 c temp's and we can't be wasting it.


Except when I arrived. First week, solid rain! (start of feb last year)
Just glad i was in NSW and not queensland!


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## Dream Machines (Mar 13, 2006)

yeah. QLD and NSW get alot of rain throughout the year (most years at least) but SA is the driest climate in the country and possibly the world


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## KleenChris (Apr 4, 2008)

Yes you could argue that water is infinite (but not really) its the fact that its starting to cover more land (melting ice caps and so on) which is actually bad...unless your a fish

Agree also that the gov. and ecomentalists cant be trusted


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## MrLOL (Feb 23, 2007)

parish said:


> Whilst you are right that it's infinite, it's the shortage of "processed" water that's the problem and while more than enough falls on this green and pleasant (?) land, it tends to fall in the wrong place - millions of tonnes fall on Scotland, but not enough on SE England.


Is it a problem right now ?

as far as i can see, the water levels after all the recent rainfull will be just about full all over the country. And its hardly like there is a hosepipe ban every summer down south.

And why, if this is about contaminating the water supply, are we discussing waterless washes, when the solution is obviously that we all need to be catching our water in pools like polished bliss ?


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## camper_88 (May 18, 2012)

you can try Zymol....they used natural ingredients for thier products


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## m1pui (Jul 24, 2009)

Holy thread revival :lol:


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

m1pui said:


> Holy thread revival :lol:


Yeah, pre-dates my time on here by a couple of months or more.
I doubt that attitudes toward water have changed much in the interim though 

Regards,
Steve


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## chrisgreen (Mar 30, 2012)

More water used for cleaning the better - my setup at home is designed for maximum water delivery.


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## cbr6fs (Aug 15, 2011)

Dream Machines said:


> small cars have their place but I'd much rather continue to own a 4.0 litre 185kw Falcon sedan in which gets 500 (city) and 800 to 1000 kms (highway) and have the added safety of it's size and be much more comfortable
> 
> Never been a fan of pocket rocket's.
> You get hit by a car or truck in a small hyundai or anything smaller than them and your dead


I can understand how it would be easy to think that, in reality though that's simply not the case.

Couple of vids worth a few mins watching











This is in line with my experiences as well, a good mate had a Jeep Cherokee hit him head on in his Renault Clio last year.

My mate had split his calf down to his ankle from the impact forces and broke his wrist BUT he was able to hobble away from the car.

The Jeep driver had to be cut from the car, by the time they'd done that (near enough 2 hours) he'd passed away 

It took my mate around 4 months in total to get sorted so it's going to hurt no matter what your in, but the structure held up, the steering wheel collapsed forwards out of the way and he was able to open the door and fall out the car.


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## Pugboi (Aug 17, 2012)

I think waterless thing will be the way forward mainly in very dry country's as people still want clean cars but they can not waste what little water they have !!


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## Eco Touch UK (May 20, 2012)

Good point Ben on the ingredients. Many waterless products claim the eco-friendly aspect from the saving of water (which is absolutely correct); what many fail to tell you is that the ingredients within the products can often be harmful and contain toxins and when washed down the drain once washed from a microfibre are harmful to the environment. To the best of my knowledge, Eco Touch is the only product out there that claims to be fully ecofriendly and displays all the ingredients of our products on the website (Safety Data Sheets) and on our containers. 

I'm not sure I agree with your point saying Eco has become a buzz word; Eco products have been around for many many years, hardly a buzz and will continue to be around as long as our planet needs use to do a little bit to help protect it. 

The debate goes on......


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Ben Gum said:


> Sorry, snowfoam is stupid. It uses loads of water, it clogs up drains with foam (which is admittedly biodegradable)


While I wholeheartedly agree with you on the folly of snowfoam, are you sure
that you can't apply the same arguments about snowfoam as you have about
waterless products? Don't a fair proportion of those also derive from the USA?

My experience with waterless is that very little, if anything, ever reaches 
either the ground or a storm drain. Whatever chemicals in the cleaner, combined
with the dust from the paint end up in the washing machine, so it does get 
processed. I have far more concerns about foam being allowed to either just
seep into the ground or for it to reach storm drains where it isn't treated.

Regards,
Steve


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## Lowiepete (Mar 29, 2009)

Ben Gum said:


> If your vehicle is coated in muck it would be daft to go this way - this is probably the state most UK vehicles get to before they are washed!


Sorry, but that's just a stereotypical piece of nonsense. Regular users of 
waterless products rarely leave their vehicles to get so caked as to make it 
difficult to continue with their cleaning regime. What tends to happen, because 
many of these products bring their own protection, is that vehicles stay cleaner 
for longer. As you continue to use the product, so the protection builds, where,
unless you're living on a farm, cleaning frequencies can usually be extended.

So, just because you don't let the car get too dirty in the first place should
not be translated into greater washing frequency; that's a complete myth!

I'm not so much an eco warrior, though I do care fairly passionately about the
wastage of water; my angle is that using a "less water" wash like ONR simply 
allows me to do my detailing in the first place, where the premise of using not 
one but two buckets would preclude me completely!

When I stay on a farm, twice a year, then I'll use perhaps a half-bucket with 
either ONR or CG Hose Free to get the worst of the muck off, before resorting
to my usual bucketless wash. All I've done is to find the easiest and most
efficient way for me to clean my car; it just happens to be a lot less wasteful
of water. I'll use HFE to clean the wheels all year round because there's no 
rinsing or any drying needed. I do have severe reservations about MF cloths
caked in brake dust and other muck from the wheels!

I have enough MF cloths of all descriptions that I rarely do more than one 
wash a month. I avoid putting brake dusted towels into the machine, they are
usually at the end of their usefulness anyway and go to landfill 

For many people, in a growing number of places, waterless is the _only_
option. Instead of seeing it as some kind of spectre, there's plenty to fully
embrace. I'm far more concerned by the idea of being forced to have a spy
fitted to my vehicle that reports my every movement, time, place and speed, 
to none other than a faceless wonder employed by an insurance company.
Now, that _is_ a spectre!

Regards,
Steve


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## chrisgreen (Mar 30, 2012)

In my personal opinion, the cleaning product should suit the way I use my car and the state I choose to let it get into before I decide it needs cleaning.

It strikes me that far too many of these eco, waterless and low water products require the user to fundamentally change their habits and approach to car cleaning and cleanliness.

I'm not prepared to do that - I see no point or benefit in doing so. The only waterless products I am prepared to use (Megs Ultimate Wash& Wax Anywhere and Triplewax Waterless Wash & Shine) are there as an absolute last resort on occasions when using traditional products, snow foam and lots & lots of water is not logistically possible. I would not change my approach simply to enable their use, hence I do not consider these products as a viable first-strike solution for car cleaning. Such products simply lack the versatility of tried & tested traditional methods when it comes to cleaning a car in the UK, and dealing with the conditions cars endure in the UK.

I have no interest in preserving water, saving the rain forests or any other Eco cause. My first and only concern is keeping my car clean and in optimum condition. I will use products I believe achieve that in whatever state the car is in. I've so far failed to see a waterless or low water product that is versatile enough to be a serious all-round car cleaning option in this country.

Other opinions may vary.


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## Daveskater (Jan 13, 2012)

Lowiepete said:


> Sorry, but that's just a stereotypical piece of nonsense. Regular users of
> waterless products rarely leave their vehicles to get so caked as to make it
> difficult to continue with their cleaning regime.


So what about professionals? Not all customers cars will be lightly soiled.


chrisgreen said:


> Other opinions may vary.


Not mine, I couldn't have summed it up better :thumb:


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## Tomukas (Oct 21, 2008)

i don't care about these stupid regulations i will use TFR's snowfoams , shampoos and alot of water i dont care


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